#1774 Body Grief: Fight
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In this episode, Scott and Erika Forsyth define Stage 5: Fight, exploring how the desperate drive for control and perfectionism can lead to exhaustion, rebellion, and a warrior trap.
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Scott Benner (0:0) Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast. (0:14) Body grief is the sense of loss and mourning that comes with living in an ever changing body. (0:19) And in this new series with myself and Erica Forsyth, we're gonna talk all about it. (0:25) If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. (0:31) Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes.
Scott Benner (0:34) But everybody is welcome. (0:36) Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. (0:40) If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. (0:50) While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (0:58) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.
Scott Benner (1:07) Today's podcast episode is sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the MiniMed seven eighty g system and their new sensor options, which include the Instinct sensor made by Abbott. (1:21) Would you like to unleash the full potential of the MiniMed seven eighty g system? (1:25) You can do that at my link, medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox. (1:31) Today's episode is also sponsored by the Kontoor Next Gen blood glucose meter. (1:37) Learn more and get started today at kontoornext.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (1:43) Jump right in, Erica. (1:44) Tell me what we're doing today. (1:45) Hi.
Erika Forsyth (1:46) We are going to move on to stage five, which is fight in our body grief series. (1:55) As we say every time, this is they're not linear even though we're discussing them in an, you know, numerical linear fashion and and sourcing this information from Jane Mattingling's book. (2:07) This is body grief.
Scott Benner (2:08) K. (2:09) Well, what does fight mean? (2:10) I'm going to beat this thing.
Erika Forsyth (2:12) Yes. (2:13) Tell me more. (2:14) Okay. (2:14) So fight is exactly what you've said. (2:18) We we kind of get into this mindset that I'm gonna beat this thing.
Erika Forsyth (2:23) We often hear we'll get into the, you know, I'm a t one d or diabetic warrior. (2:28) We often are in this stage when we are we're feeling powerless perhaps, and we are wanting to regain, kind of take back some of that control that we feel like we're it's out of control. (2:41) And, again, this can happen most certainly after diagnosis, but at any point in our journey with diabetes. (2:50) And often, you you might find yourself in the fight stage when you've kind of run out of all the other options. (2:57) Right?
Erika Forsyth (2:58) Like, you've you've been in dismissal or denial. (3:01) You've been in shock. (3:02) You've tried to maybe apologize your way out of this of what you're feeling from the body grief, and then you land in, okay. (3:11) I I'm gonna beat this thing. (3:13) And, as we talk about it, you'll hear probably both of us go back and forth between, like, that's not necessarily a bad thing
Scott Benner (3:19) Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth (3:20) All the time to be in this. (3:23) I can I can do it all?
Scott Benner (3:24) Right.
Erika Forsyth (3:25) But what we're gonna kind of maybe hopefully piece out is noticing when is it maybe problematic.
Scott Benner (3:31) Okay. (3:31) When is it? (3:33) I wanna wait to hear because I I was gonna say something, but I I'd like to go a little farther first. (3:37) Alright. (3:38) Keep going, please.
Erika Forsyth (3:38) So what does it look like when you're in the fight stage? (3:42) You are ignoring and overriding any cues that your body is giving you that you're in pain. (3:51) And and, obviously, when I say pain, it could be physical pain. (3:53) Right? (3:54) Because this could also even though we're applying these stages through and looking at them through the lens of living with diabetes, but you could also think about it through any other issue, injury, surgery, anything that's going on in your body.
Scott Benner (4:05) Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth (4:06) Right? (4:06) So you might be having extreme emotional dysregulation. (4:12) You're angry. (4:13) You're sad. (4:14) You're happy.
Erika Forsyth (4:15) You're you might have some physical cues that your body is giving you that you're in fight. (4:21) Maybe you're having a heart racing. (4:23) Your thought is racing. (4:24) Maybe you're feeling anxious. (4:26) You might have kind of those warm, like, hot flashes, but not necessarily just because you're in maybe that stage of life.
Erika Forsyth (4:34) Your nervous system, you're just you're irritable. (4:37) You're just quick to easily angered, easily irritated. (4:41) Mhmm. (4:42) So you're you're having all those experiences physically and emotionally in your body, and yet you're trying to push through it, and you're keeping it all together. (4:50) Right?
Erika Forsyth (4:50) So you're still like, I'm feeling all these things, but I'm gonna ignore them, and I can do this. (4:54) Right. (4:55) Okay. (4:56) Again, there are times when that probably is helpful, but there are times when that's detrimental.
Scott Benner (5:01) Tell me how it is detrimental when it is.
Erika Forsyth (5:04) Okay. (5:05) You are ignoring, right, that these your body is giving you these cues and these signs that you're not okay. (5:13) Sometimes when you're ignoring that repeatedly and trying to push it away and say, I'm fine. (5:20) I'm gonna keep it all together. (5:21) I don't I don't wanna be perceived as weak.
Erika Forsyth (5:23) I don't wanna purse be perceived that this diabetes thing has got me. (5:27) I'm gonna be stronger than that. (5:29) It's those emotions and those feelings are gonna come out in other areas of your life.
Scott Benner (5:36) It's almost the equivalent of just kinda running on adrenaline until it's gone, and then you realize your leg's broken, you fall over. (5:44) That kind of an idea?
Erika Forsyth (5:45) Yes. (5:45) Yes. (5:46) Okay. (5:46) Yes. (5:47) So maybe at times, you do need to be in the fight stage and, like, okay.
Erika Forsyth (5:54) I gotta do this thing. (5:55) I gotta work through this. (5:57) But we're talking about, like, this is you know, you're in repeatedly, consecutively in this fight stage and ignoring all these other signs that your body's giving you that you're in pain.
Scott Benner (6:08) And this can be physical, emotional, all kinds of different pain. (6:13) Right?
Erika Forsyth (6:13) Yes. (6:14) So you you also might notice if you're ignoring all these cues when somebody makes a comment or they're trying to maybe even be kind, and we've talked about this before, you know, where they might ask a question that they're trying to be kind and considerate, but it just lands as very ignorant. (6:35) Mhmm. (6:35) You don't have to be in fight stage to be triggered by that, but it also if you are constantly and consistently noticing that you're just set off so easily by anything
Scott Benner (6:46) Right.
Erika Forsyth (6:46) Whether you're reading it online or you're seeing a commercial or a personal comment from a friend and you just wanna lash out, that could be a sign that you are in this fight stage.
Scott Benner (6:59) Okay. (7:00) Yeah. (7:01) I I never understand. (7:03) This makes it clear for me when people get upset, like, a like a late night host makes a joke or something, and they're just upset for days afterwards. (7:11) I was like, I mean, it's you know, it may be ham fisted or even ill advised, but, you're you're really upset.
Scott Benner (7:18) You're not gonna chain you know what I mean? (7:20) Like, it it's not a thing you can impact, really. (7:23) So if you have all this pain and you're what is it? (7:26) You're stuffing it down, you're trying to ignore it because you feel like I can beat what's happening to me. (7:33) Like, the thing my body's trying to do to me is not as strong as my will to resist it.
Scott Benner (7:39) Is that the idea?
Erika Forsyth (7:40) Yes. (7:41) That is certainly one of the ideas. (7:42) Okay. (7:43) So kind of we're looking at pass all the possibilities that's driving this behavior, whether you're you're conscious of it or not. (7:50) Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth (7:50) Right? (7:51) There I think there's the, I'm I'm gonna beat this thing because I don't want it to beat me. (7:56) There could be this kind of the public perception. (7:59) You're you're concerned and not wanting to be perceived as weak and letting this, you know, bring you down, and and we get affirmed by this all the time. (8:08) Right?
Erika Forsyth (8:08) Like, you're so strong. (8:09) How do you how do you manage? (8:11) How do you do all these things while living with a chronic illness, while living with diabetes? (8:16) And that's great. (8:18) That feels good.
Erika Forsyth (8:19) But if you are ignoring all of these cues that your body is giving you emotionally, physically, it that's just not sustainable. (8:27) Right? (8:27) If you're kind of living if that's your goal
Scott Benner (8:30) And if it's not true, right, if it's just it's just what you're presenting, then it's, I mean, it's really not sustainable at that point because you're just that is the ill advised side of fake it till you make it. (8:41) You can't Yes. (8:42) Yeah. (8:42) Yeah. (8:42) Yeah.
Scott Benner (8:43) You can't fake some things you can't just pretend don't exist. (8:46) So when when they do exist I mean, I imagine we're getting to this. (8:49) But, like, when they do exist, if they'll stop, address them, get those things in order, and then you won't even have the need to fight. (8:58) You put that fight into something more productive, I would imagine, after that.
Erika Forsyth (9:01) Yes. (9:02) Yes. (9:02) And we we are gonna
Scott Benner (9:03) Get to that.
Erika Forsyth (9:04) Get into that. (9:05) Yes.
Scott Benner (9:05) Alright. (9:05) I'm sorry.
Erika Forsyth (9:06) So the I meant, also, another kind of tangible example when like, what this might look like is, you know, pushing through the lows or ignoring your alerts. (9:18) Right? (9:19) Because there might again, there might be times where you feel like you'd need to or have to, but we're talking about kind of this consistent, like, I'm just I'm gonna fight through this. (9:28) I'm gonna push through. (9:29) I don't need to address this.
Scott Benner (9:33) Saying you're gonna fight through a low falling blood sugar is like Mhmm. (9:37) Getting shot and going, I'm not gonna die. (9:40) That's how you are. (9:41) Yeah. (9:42) Yeah.
Scott Benner (9:42) Yeah. (9:42) Like like, something something more powerful than your will is at play at that point.
Erika Forsyth (9:47) That's right.
Scott Benner (9:48) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (9:49) But there are times where perhaps you feel like, okay. (9:53) I I can't stop. (9:56) It feels like you can't stop because you're gonna either interrupt the thing that's happening that you're like, whether you're in a a meeting or a work environment or a classroom or you feel like there might be other reasons why you feel like, okay. (10:09) I can't eat right now. (10:11) I can't treat it, or I don't wanna inject.
Erika Forsyth (10:14) I don't want to no. (10:15) That that might not because you're in fight. (10:17) There might be other reasons going on, such as apology. (10:20) Right? (10:21) Like, you might be embarrassed and not wanna interfere or interrupt with the flow around you.
Scott Benner (10:26) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (10:28) But there are and I don't mean, like, pushing through a low, like, not taking your your treat, but, like, maybe you don't wanna ask to stop the just conversation.
Scott Benner (10:39) Happening. (10:40) Right. (10:40) Right.
Erika Forsyth (10:40) And you're just yeah.
Scott Benner (10:42) You're being kind by, like, couching in that direction. (10:44) But I've talked to a lot of people who really they can't articulate why. (10:49) They're just like, I I just felt like I didn't wanna do it, so I didn't. (10:53) And I'll say, but, you know, your blood sugar was 55 and it was still dropping. (10:57) Like, you know what happens after that.
Scott Benner (10:58) Right? (10:59) Like, why wouldn't you stop? (11:00) And they don't really know. (11:01) It is it's defiance. (11:03) I don't know when your conscious decision starts and when you're, you know, being incapable of thinking begins as your blood sugar gets lower and lower too, but it does seem to go in that direction.
Scott Benner (11:14) Do you know what I mean? (11:14) Like, it starts with, like, a conscious, I don't wanna do this and I'm not going to. (11:19) And then at some point, your blood sugar gets so low, I mean, what I've witnessed on other people that all of a sudden, can't make a good decision anymore. (11:27) But you're already kinda locked into, like, woo. (11:29) I'm gonna fight.
Scott Benner (11:30) I know for Arden, Arden gets into that weird ignores a low and says, I got it. (11:36) I'll get it in a second. (11:37) I'm too busy. (11:38) I'm doing my homework. (11:39) I'm doing this.
Scott Benner (11:39) Right? (11:40) And then she gets so low that it hits her thought process. (11:43) The next thing that happens to her is this incredible apathy. (11:46) Yo, man. (11:47) If it kills me, whatever.
Scott Benner (11:48) It's almost like talking to a hippie.
Erika Forsyth (11:51) That and that's the cognitive impairment.
Scott Benner (11:53) That's the cognitive impairment because that hap does that happen to you?
Erika Forsyth (11:56) Oh, of course.
Scott Benner (11:56) Yeah. (11:57) Yeah. (11:57) You're like, it's gonna be alright, baby. (11:59) I know.
Erika Forsyth (12:00) I try not to let it get to that point, but when it gets to that point, it's hard, and that's when someone's like, here, you you need to eat this thing right now.
Scott Benner (12:06) Yeah. (12:06) Because then you're impaired, like, at that point. (12:08) Right? (12:09) Mhmm. (12:09) And then and then under that impairment exists your inability to help yourself one way or the other and then, you know, the rest.
Scott Benner (12:17) So I'm sorry. (12:18) But it just it it feels, like, important to talk about like that.
Erika Forsyth (12:21) And there's so there's so many reasons, the when you feel low or you see you're low, I mean, there's so many reasons why you might not automatically treat. (12:33) Right? (12:33) Whether you you just brush your teeth, you don't feel like it, you're tired, you're not hungry.
Scott Benner (12:37) Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth (12:37) You're you're so over it.
Scott Benner (12:39) I had one too many
Erika Forsyth (12:39) gummy bears. (12:40) Gonna hope my
Scott Benner (12:41) what's that? (12:41) I've had one too many gummy bears in my life. (12:43) Yeah. (12:43) Yeah. (12:44) Right.
Erika Forsyth (12:44) Or, like, maybe my pump will if you're on an AID, you know, maybe maybe my pump will catch it.
Scott Benner (12:48) It's gonna catch. (12:49) It's gonna catch.
Erika Forsyth (12:50) It's gonna catch. (12:51) Yeah. (12:51) And you're kinda like, I'm comfortable in this chair. (12:54) I don't wanna have to get up.
Scott Benner (12:55) So if I send Arna a text that says, hey. (12:58) I see a low coming. (13:00) You're it's going to happen. (13:02) Like, if you do something right now, it'll never come to terms. (13:05) We're almost pre bolus ing those pushbacks from her.
Scott Benner (13:09) And me telling her it's coming, like, disallows her the autonomy to go through that process you just described. (13:17) You know, it occurs to me that there are not a lot of things in life that if you ignore them, they, in minutes, can turn into such a dire situation. (13:30) And that that almost feels unfair. (13:32) Like, unfair I think I I don't like to say things are unfair all the time, but, like, that really is unfair. (13:37) Like, you don't even have time to have your feelings about something before the unseen force takes over.
Scott Benner (13:45) And and and now it's it's beyond your control at that point. (13:49) Does am I making sense about that? (13:51) Like, one minute, you're like a thinking feeling person trying to be like, damn it. (13:56) I wanna fight this. (13:57) And then five minutes goes by, you know, you're basically drunk at that point.
Scott Benner (14:02) Mhmm. (14:02) You know what I mean? (14:03) Sucks. (14:03) Yes. (14:04) That's all.
Erika Forsyth (14:06) The tie the timing is so it's important. (14:10) It's significant. (14:11) Yeah.
Scott Benner (14:12) Yeah. (14:12) Yeah. (14:12) Like, you're you and then you're not.
Erika Forsyth (14:14) Yes.
Scott Benner (14:15) And but you're still in the same problem. (14:17) And you still think you're having a, you know, a cogent conversation with yourself about it and you're and you're not anymore. (14:25) The Kontoor Next Gen Blood Glucose Meter is sponsoring this episode of the juice box podcast, and it's entirely possible that it is less expensive in cash than you're paying right now for your meter through your insurance company. (14:39) That's right. (14:40) If you go to my link, contournext.com/juicebox, you're gonna find links to Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, Rite Aid, Kroger, and Meijer.
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Erika Forsyth (16:47) Yes. (16:47) And then it becomes even more complex, right, and complicated. (16:51) And they the I wouldn't even call it you know, we she can Jane, the author, sometimes says that this that fight leans heavily on dismissal or denial. (17:03) Right? (17:04) Like, I just I don't wanna follow this treatment plan, but I wouldn't even it's not necessarily even denial when you're like, okay.
Erika Forsyth (17:12) I see my arrow going down. (17:14) It could be for a moment
Scott Benner (17:16) For a moment.
Erika Forsyth (17:17) Or in a particular situation, I was like, I just don't wanna deal with this again. (17:21) It could be, you know, just exhaustion, and you're so over it. (17:26) You don't wanna have to treat it again.
Scott Benner (17:28) I'm gonna tell you that I've been having thoughts lately around the process that people go through when they're diagnosed, whether it's them or it's their it's a a child, right, or somebody they care about. (17:40) In the beginning, you are really struck with this idea of, like, all the bad things that may happen over the decades that are coming. (17:48) I'm gonna do something to stop them from happening or I'm gonna minimize them or we'll avoid them somehow. (17:55) And I have to tell you the longer that I live in this ecosystem with people who have type one diabetes, the more I think all of this is going to happen. (18:06) It's really not about trying to stop it from happening.
Scott Benner (18:08) It's about it's about navigating it and experiencing it and getting past it and moving on. (18:15) It's again, it's unfair. (18:16) Right? (18:17) That you're gonna deal with a lot of things as a type one you already have, right, that a lot of people aren't gonna be asked to deal with. (18:23) But I don't think there's avoiding it.
Scott Benner (18:25) Like, you I mean, you can avoid it by avoiding taking care of yourself and having such poor health that none of it matters. (18:30) But I just don't think you're getting around this. (18:32) I think this thing we're talking about right now, I would imagine that on some level and at some point, everyone is gonna feel this way. (18:41) You know what I mean? (18:42) Around diabetes.
Erika Forsyth (18:43) Yes.
Scott Benner (18:44) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (18:44) Or or anyone, yeah, with or without diabetes because you have a body. (18:48) That's like the whole the whole theme. (18:50) Right? (18:50) Thesis.
Scott Benner (18:51) My knee hurt really badly a couple years ago. (18:54) I went to the guy, and he's like, oh, you know, you got some arthritis on the inside here. (18:58) We'll clean it out. (18:58) It cleans it all out. (18:59) He says to me, like, you're gonna need a knee replacement one day.
Scott Benner (19:02) I was like, awesome. (19:03) And then he goes, or not. (19:04) I don't know. (19:05) And I'm like, awesome. (19:06) But it's starting to get sore again in the same way it did before they cleaned it up.
Scott Benner (19:12) It's not life or death. (19:14) My blood sugar is getting really low. (19:15) I have to make a great decision right now or something bad's gonna happen. (19:19) But I think I'm going through the same process just much more slowly. (19:23) So anytime your body fails you not that this isn't what we've been saying the whole time, but anytime your body fails you, you're going through this process whether you realize it or not.
Erika Forsyth (19:33) 100%. (19:34) Yeah. (19:34) Yes. (19:34) Okay. (19:35) And it's about not trying to avoid it, but as you were saying, you know, feeling your way through it.
Erika Forsyth (19:42) You can't you can't get, like, onto the other side without processing and being you know, feeling these feelings and honoring them.
Scott Benner (19:50) This is the ride. (19:52) The the yeah.
Erika Forsyth (19:52) This is the ride.
Scott Benner (19:53) Yeah. (19:53) This is the ride. (19:54) Like, you don't there's not a different ride out there that you're not involved in or that you're trying to get to. (20:01) Like, this is it. (20:02) You're born.
Scott Benner (20:03) Your cells multiply. (20:04) You get bigger. (20:05) They start to go the other way. (20:08) This is this is just it. (20:09) You're just watching it happen more quickly when you have type one.
Erika Forsyth (20:12) Yes. (20:12) Or or may perhaps another
Scott Benner (20:14) Or other issues.
Erika Forsyth (20:15) Chronic illness. (20:16) Oh, yeah. (20:16) But also when you get a cold or when you have to face a surgery.
Scott Benner (20:21) Yeah. (20:21) Yeah. (20:21) Super super simple way to think about it. (20:22) But, like, you're you're okay, and then suddenly, you are not. (20:26) And you don't get to pretend you're not.
Scott Benner (20:28) That's not how it works. (20:29) But we do it because oh, what we talked about last time. (20:34) Right? (20:34) Like, you know, people are trying to move through the world. (20:37) The ones that sit down and give up die, so you gotta keep going.
Scott Benner (20:40) But we're not really in that it's not the world we live in anymore too. (20:45) You know what I mean? (20:45) It's not like if you can't get up, the wagon train's gonna leave you behind and a coyote's gonna eat your face. (20:50) Like, that's I mean, that is what would happen, by the way. (20:53) Can you imagine your last moments?
Scott Benner (20:55) Are you with a six shooter in a field thinking like, well, I can get five of these things and I'll save the sixth one for me. (21:01) Like, I mean, no kidding. (21:02) Right? (21:02) Just trying to get to Arkansas? (21:04) It's not fair.
Scott Benner (21:04) Oh my gosh. (21:05) It's not fair. (21:06) Erica, now you get in you get in your car, you tell it where to go, it drives you there. (21:10) Yeah. (21:11) But Gosh.
Scott Benner (21:12) I I'm joking, but I'm not. (21:14) Mhmm. (21:14) This is really it's been really super interesting. (21:17) I know we're not done the conversation yet, but I've I've been really, happy that we're talking about all this, but I I've stopped you. (21:23) Go ahead and and move
Erika Forsyth (21:24) forward. (21:24) Good.
Scott Benner (21:25) Yeah. (21:25) Thank you.
Erika Forsyth (21:25) Good pause. (21:26) So when we're in in fight, I think it might be it might look and feel differently when someone asks you the question, how are you doing? (21:37) We might avoid answering that question because, a, you might wanna say, I'm doing great because you're, you know, you're overworking. (21:46) You're overscheduling. (21:46) You're trying to prove that this diabetes isn't gonna bring you down.
Erika Forsyth (21:51) Mhmm. (21:52) And and and it truly might not. (21:54) Right? (21:54) Like, again, that's okay in a healthy place to be in, but also noticing if you're like, oh, I'm I'm, you know, I'm I'm fine. (22:02) I'm gonna beat this thing.
Erika Forsyth (22:03) It's not gonna bring me down. (22:05) But underneath, your your heart is racing. (22:08) You're feeling awful. (22:09) You're irritable. (22:11) You're sad all the time, noticing, okay.
Erika Forsyth (22:14) Maybe am I am I using this fight messaging to try and prove that I'm okay, but really I'm not inside? (22:23) Also, you might avoid or dodge the question, how are you doing? (22:28) Because of all of the things we've talked about in the prior stages of we just don't wanna go down that road of trying to explain what it is. (22:35) Mhmm. (22:36) We've dealt with the misconceptions and the stigma.
Erika Forsyth (22:39) And so fight might be, okay. (22:42) You know, I've got this thing. (22:44) I'm doing great. (22:45) But, really, we're, like that that was an ignorant question. (22:49) I don't wanna have to try and explain it.
Erika Forsyth (22:51) I'm exhausted. (22:52) And whatever I say to you, you aren't maybe gonna fully understand it anyway, so I'm gonna stay in. (22:58) I'm fine. (22:59) This is great. (22:59) You know, I got it.
Erika Forsyth (23:00) Yeah. (23:00) This you know, I'm it's not gonna beat me down.
Scott Benner (23:03) It's like wanting to explain your political position online. (23:07) Yeah. (23:07) Right? (23:08) Like, you're like, I it doesn't matter how long we sit here and talk. (23:11) I'm not gonna get how I feel across you.
Scott Benner (23:13) You're never gonna understand the way I feel, and we're all just gonna leave irritated.
Erika Forsyth (23:17) So Which is why, you know, speaking from one type one to another, there's so much value in that because you don't have to explain.
Scott Benner (23:26) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (23:26) And you can be vulnerable without having to justify, or you you don't have to present as, you know, I've got it all together.
Scott Benner (23:35) I've seen it. (23:36) Like, I you know, I've said we did it on the cruise ship. (23:39) We did it. (23:39) I you know, I said friends for life. (23:41) Like, just everybody comes in a room and whatever that vibrating is behind everybody's eyes just feels like it goes away.
Scott Benner (23:48) Mhmm. (23:48) It's really, really wonderful. (23:50) Yes. (23:50) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (23:51) Yes. (23:52) I think there also might be again, we're just wanting to encourage noticing the why. (23:58) Like, why are you in this why are you either answering it this way? (24:03) The question, how are you doing? (24:04) Why are you feeling this way?
Erika Forsyth (24:06) And none of being in fight necessarily isn't wrong. (24:11) Right? (24:11) I really wanna be clear with that. (24:13) Like, because we have to be warriors to keep going. (24:17) And
Scott Benner (24:18) It's a bigger picture. (24:19) Like, I keep hearing you went yeah. (24:20) I know you don't want people to feel like you're saying, like, hey. (24:23) You know, there's nothing wrong with fighting back. (24:25) But, like, I think they're two different understandings of the same concept.
Scott Benner (24:30) Like, there's nothing wrong fighting back a little bit, not giving up and everything. (24:34) That's one thing. (24:35) But when you need to ask for help because you are five seconds away from running out of adrenaline and falling over, that's not the time to be fighting anymore. (24:43) Now you gotta look at yourself and say, why have I continued to fight beyond my ability to overcome this situation to my own detriment? (24:50) This is gonna end with me slumped over here.
Scott Benner (24:52) Like, why am I not stopping? (24:54) That's what you wanna say. (24:55) Right?
Erika Forsyth (24:55) Yes. (24:56) Yeah. (24:56) Yes. (24:57) That was an excellent, yes, your reflection and summary. (25:01) What, like, what is driving that behavior?
Scott Benner (25:03) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (25:04) Is an element of it also fear? (25:07) Right? (25:08) Are are you fearful that your body won't be able to perform or act or in your workplace, in your relationships the way you want it to be. (25:19) And sometimes that fear can also lead to this need for perfection. (25:26) Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth (25:27) With and with diabetes, whether it looks like I need I need to have straight lines because then that makes me feel like I'm in control. (25:34) Do I need to have 99% time and tight range? (25:38) Again, those things I'm not saying those things are wrong, but noticing what is driving that that need for either perfection or performance. (25:48) Is it making you feel like you're in control? (25:51) And and to a degree, you it might be.
Scott Benner (25:53) Yeah. (25:54) And maybe there's times when that's important too.
Erika Forsyth (25:56) That's right.
Scott Benner (25:57) Maybe there are times when you you are gonna fake it a little bit and, you know, lean on. (26:01) Look. (26:01) I kept my graph perfectly. (26:02) I'm doing well. (26:03) It gives you some you know, it gives you a little self confidence, maybe a little energy to move forward a little bit.
Scott Benner (26:08) And but there's just nothing wrong with saying I need help or this isn't going well and that's okay or anything in that space too.
Erika Forsyth (26:17) Yes. (26:18) And, also, like we've talked about before when the messaging, which also I had as a child from my parents of, you know, you are a warrior. (26:27) You've got this. (26:28) Don't let this get in the way of your goals. (26:30) That is a 100% a beautiful message, and you also get to have space to say, this sucks.
Erika Forsyth (26:36) I hate diabetes. (26:37) I don't want this. (26:38) But I I know I still can, like, work towards my goals, but I also kinda hate it sometimes.
Scott Benner (26:42) I've always
Erika Forsyth (26:43) said That's that was a really oversimplification because No.
Scott Benner (26:45) But I've always said to people, like, you know, I get why you say that to your kids, but at the same time, like, you're so brave. (26:51) You're so brave. (26:52) My kids are so brave. (26:53) And I that's not not true. (26:55) Of course, it's true.
Scott Benner (26:55) But also, people don't wanna be brave. (26:57) It's not they don't wake up in the morning and go, oh, I hope I am faced with so much turmoil that my only choice is to be brave today. (27:05) And when you're telling them that, I think you're kind of there you could be reminding them that their life is such that they have to be brave while other people are walking around, you know, smoking a smoking a fatty and, like, playing video games, and they're off having to be brave. (27:22) They're like, this isn't fair. (27:23) Like, I don't want this.
Scott Benner (27:24) Also, I don't wanna be brave. (27:25) I'm not looking to be brave. (27:26) I'm trying to live a normal life here. (27:28) I keep hearing you say it because I and I feel it too. (27:31) Like, it is a really nice message.
Scott Benner (27:33) You're a warrior. (27:33) You can do it. (27:34) That's great. (27:35) Except on the day where I don't wanna be treated that way. (27:38) And then when you tell that to me, what I hear is my life sucks.
Scott Benner (27:41) That's kind of the the the balance. (27:43) And I don't know how
Erika Forsyth (27:43) you figure out which way. (27:45) Yes. (27:45) That's or having those feelings that, hey. (27:50) I I can be a warrior. (27:52) I can achieve my goals.
Erika Forsyth (27:53) I can play on these sports teams. (27:55) I can show up and get good grades in my classes. (27:58) But, also, is that what is is it okay to have these, quote, unquote, negative feelings towards diabetes? (28:05) I think that's we wanna just, you know, give that permission Mhmm. (28:09) To feel all of the feelings towards it.
Erika Forsyth (28:12) And sometimes when you're bombarded with that message of you're a brave warrior, it feels like maybe you're doing something wrong if you have that feeling.
Scott Benner (28:19) There's the saying, right, about, about having sand held in your hands. (28:23) Right? (28:24) Hold it too loosely. (28:26) It remains where it is. (28:27) Squeeze it too tightly.
Scott Benner (28:28) It trickles out through your fingers, like, kind of whole idea there. (28:32) That's acceptance. (28:33) Right? (28:34) The open hand is acceptance and and squeezing it is it's like it's an attempt to control something
Erika Forsyth (28:40) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (28:41) And that never works out. (28:43) And to bring that back to this is you or your loved one has, whether they know it or not or care to or not, has a relationship with the fact that they have diabetes. (28:54) Yes. (28:54) Right? (28:55) Or that their body is you know, if it's, you know, something else that we're that we're not talking about today.
Scott Benner (29:00) Like, another issue where your body is is sending you grief by not doing what it is you want it to do or that you were promised it would do. (29:07) Yeah. (29:07) And so there's something there about, like, you know, there's something about the sand metaphor and the you're so brave that to me fits together and they they support each other. (29:18) I I don't know. (29:18) Like, I'm sorry.
Scott Benner (29:19) I can't bring the whole thought together. (29:20) But, anyway, think about that in your house and don't go too far in either direction. (29:24) That's what I'm thinking. (29:25) That make any sense? (29:26) Yes.
Scott Benner (29:27) Did I just go down, like, a weird rabbit hole?
Erika Forsyth (29:28) So it's so good, and I wish I I wanna, like, make a beautiful connection to the sand and bravery. (29:35) But I think that the acceptance piece and holding you know, you're you're doing what you can to live a healthy life. (29:41) So you're holding it. (29:42) But if, you know, if you're opening it up your hands too much, maybe you're kinda maybe that's when you're in the stages of, you know, denial or I'm sorry. (29:50) I I don't want yeah.
Erika Forsyth (29:51) I don't wanna hold everything. (29:52) So there's some responsibility in holding the sand.
Scott Benner (29:56) Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth (29:56) Right? (29:57) But then if you're squeezing it, trying to control it, and manage it, and shape it, and you're gonna lose that sense of balance.
Scott Benner (30:05) Yeah. (30:05) Anyway. (30:05) I'm not the right one to tell you about Taoism, but, like, you know, I think somewhere in there, there's some message.
Erika Forsyth (30:11) Okay.
Scott Benner (30:12) Yeah. (30:12) I I again, I don't know enough about it to talk about it. (30:15) It's about control. (30:17) And and, you know, if you love something what is it? (30:19) If you love something, set it free.
Scott Benner (30:21) Right? (30:21) Is that the idea?
Erika Forsyth (30:22) Mhmm. (30:22) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (30:23) So there's something about the way you talk about those things to each other, to yourself that holds a lot of power depending on where the person is in their situation. (30:36) And that's the most difficult thing.
Erika Forsyth (30:37) Like, I
Scott Benner (30:37) used to joke remember, I've joked with you before. (30:39) Like, I said to my wife, if there was just a warning light on your head that told me what mood you were in, I think this would all go be so much easier. (30:47) Mhmm. (30:48) The toughness here is when you're supporting yourself or a loved one with diabetes, you don't know where they're at when you deliver the you're so brave message. (30:57) That's a difficulty of of human communication.
Scott Benner (31:00) I don't know how to fix that. (31:01) That's right. (31:01) That's a podcast isn't gonna help you with that.
Erika Forsyth (31:04) Yeah. (31:04) Because, like, it's basically it's I'm I know we're kind of going off tangent, but I think when you're telling somebody you are so brave, if they aren't feeling brave in the moment and they're feeling discouraged and just soaked in deep despair or grief, then it feels like that feeling is being dismissed.
Scott Benner (31:22) It lands opposite. (31:23) Yeah. (31:24) Yeah. (31:24) It lands opposite of how you mean it, and it lands opposite of how they could take it if they were in a different mind frame at that moment.
Erika Forsyth (31:31) Mhmm. (31:31) So it is it's it's a it is this this gentle balance. (31:34) Right? (31:34) Because you're wanting to encourage
Scott Benner (31:35) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (31:36) While simultaneously mirror and validate what they're feeling or what yourself what you're feeling. (31:42) It's complicated.
Scott Benner (31:43) Yeah. (31:43) I know. (31:43) I I I have two children and a wife. (31:45) I I'm constantly looking for ways to make this I figure it out right before I die. (31:50) You know what I mean?
Scott Benner (31:51) Like, I have, a big moment. (31:52) I go, oh, I got it, and then I'll be gone. (31:53) I don't know. (31:54) I've I've just I've thought about it a lot. (31:56) And, you know, for people who used to say, oh, the podcast will once Arden starts taking care of herself, there'll be nothing left to talk about.
Scott Benner (32:02) There's a lot left to talk about. (32:04) There's a lot of things I did over the years that if I was the person I am now, just like with everything else, I would have done it differently or not at all. (32:12) But at the same time, if you don't do the things if I didn't do the things that I did, we wouldn't have got to where we are. (32:18) So, I mean, I that's life struggle in general. (32:21) Right?
Scott Benner (32:21) Like, you after you learn, you think, oh, I could do it better. (32:23) But if you went back and did it better, what are the things you wouldn't have done that might have ended up being important that would have gotten skipped? (32:29) There's no real right answer. (32:32) Oh, jeez.
Erika Forsyth (32:33) Wow. (32:34) Okay.
Scott Benner (32:34) I'm sorry. (32:35) Go back to your thing, Erica, before I
Erika Forsyth (32:36) No. (32:37) It's good.
Scott Benner (32:37) Before I jump out a window. (32:38) Go ahead. (32:38) Oh
Erika Forsyth (32:39) my gosh. (32:40) Okay. (32:41) Let me take a deep breath, and we are gonna go into what can we do, like, when you're noticing that you're in this fight stage of I'm gonna beat this thing. (32:51) This is not gonna bring me down, and your body is giving you other cues that you are not feeling very well physically, emotionally. (32:59) So a lot of these tools are taken directly from the book, and these are actually tools that we've talked about before, but I like the the labels that she uses.
Erika Forsyth (33:08) Okay. (33:09) So noted practicing, I'm only human, and we're gonna go through five different ways to do that. (33:15) So taking a a, quote, planned rebellion, which in our, you know, world could look like taking a technological, you know, tech break from your CGM, from your pumps. (33:29) If you're feeling like, I just can't do this anymore, obviously, with, you know, the consultation of your doctor. (33:38) And I think once you decide to either remove the pump or go on to MDI, I think it's sometimes it can you can feel maybe you enjoy the benefits, but then it's hard to go back.
Erika Forsyth (33:50) And so I like to remind people giving giving yourself permission to if you're if you're on a pump and you go to MDI and you're then you feel like, I should do I wanna go back to a pump? (34:01) Like, go back for a day and but give yourself permission to switch back. (34:05) Because I think so often when we feel like there's so many we feel trapped in a lot of ways. (34:09) We do have some options in terms of how we manage, and keeping that giving yourself permission and freedom to make those choices is really important.
Scott Benner (34:16) This first one, I won't I won't stay here long with it, but it made me feel very good for Arden because I see her make those little rebellions. (34:24) Like, her CGM, like, timed out yesterday. (34:27) It you know, I know some of you think that some of you talk about how you your CGM doesn't last very long, and I I'm not bragging here. (34:33) Obviously, it'd be a weird thing to brag about, but Arden's usually goes, you know, full ten days, twelve hours. (34:39) There's that loud beep that says, like, hey, You did it.
Scott Benner (34:42) You rode me as far as I can go. (34:44) Like, this is done now. (34:45) And she just sort of sits there and doesn't do anything about it. (34:48) Sometimes for a half an hour or an hour, and then eventually, and she's doing something. (34:53) She'd be homework or she's studying or watching television or something.
Scott Benner (34:56) And she just sort of get up and put another one on. (34:58) And I used to talk to her about like, hey, if you put it on now, then when that one fails, this one already be on or like when we get to the end. (35:05) Mhmm. (35:06) And then it just hit me in the last year. (35:07) Was like, she's doing this on purpose.
Scott Benner (35:09) Like, this is her own little planned rebellion. (35:12) Mhmm. (35:12) I didn't put them in those words, but that is that's what she was doing. (35:16) She was taking a moment and saying, I know I need this thing and it helps me a lot, but I am just gonna make a conscious decision not to wear it even if it's just for a half an hour or so. (35:26) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (35:26) Cool. (35:27) Alright.
Erika Forsyth (35:27) And it and it's okay.
Scott Benner (35:28) Yeah. (35:29) It's not just okay. (35:30) I think it's valuable.
Erika Forsyth (35:32) Yes. (35:32) Yeah. (35:33) Yes. (35:33) Thank you. (35:34) Yes.
Erika Forsyth (35:34) Okay. (35:35) The next one is called the unicorn complex, which is in in the way she defines it is I'm stronger than other people. (35:45) I will fight this thing. (35:46) Or, you know, I I'm gonna nail this a 100% time and tight range four point something a one c. (35:55) Nothing wrong with that, but noticing what is what is underneath some of those thoughts and behaviors.
Erika Forsyth (36:01) And so noticing, okay. (36:03) We are not unicorns. (36:04) We are humans. (36:05) And one way, if you feel like you're trapped in that mindset of just, like, I have to get this right. (36:11) I have to be straight lined or whatever it may be to interrupt some of that thought process is to find some moments of gratitude.
Erika Forsyth (36:21) Mhmm. (36:21) And maybe that can be as simple as my body woke itself up from a low, or I just or I woke up, or I'm grateful for clean water. (36:31) I'm grateful for for clean air, or perhaps I'm I'm grateful that my time in range went up by a half a point. (36:38) Or I'm grateful that my my time in range went down, and I'm not going to shame myself or beat myself up for that. (36:47) So just acknowledging the humanness, and finding small or or big things in which you could be grateful for.
Scott Benner (36:54) I can see where this this unicorn complex in certain disease states you know, if I'm in the, you know, the last year of a cancer battle, then this is where I I think this is where my mind should be. (37:06) Right? (37:07) But with the with diabetes type one, you know, or or other issues, it's not always, you know, first in goal. (37:14) And if we let them in, the game's over. (37:16) Like, you and but, know, and it can feel like that.
Scott Benner (37:19) And that, I think, is important to not constantly be in this, like, this is do or die every five seconds. (37:27) You know what I mean?
Erika Forsyth (37:28) Yes. (37:29) But and it's just as hard as it is to get out of that mindset, it can be really easy to get into that. (37:34) Right? (37:35) Mhmm. (37:35) Depending on your messaging, your own internal narrative
Scott Benner (37:40) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (37:40) What you're exposing your mind and body to. (37:43) And so it's so easy for us in in the, you know, the diabetes world to get caught up in that.
Scott Benner (37:50) I it's not I do see a lot of people who feel like it's always it's always do or die. (37:55) Everything we're doing is just absolutely this is it right here. (37:59) Every every five seconds, they think they're in their last stand. (38:02) It just occurred to me that I don't know what Arden's blood sugar is, and I haven't known for a really long time. (38:08) So I brought it up because she's taking a final right now.
Scott Benner (38:11) Her blood sugar is one forty three. (38:13) I hope that helps people to know that, like, I I didn't I haven't known what her blood sugar's been since, I don't know, like, o'clock this morning when I heard a beep, and I was like, I wonder what that is, and it dipped under 70 for a minute.
Erika Forsyth (38:25) But this six nine times maybe when you were
Scott Benner (38:28) Oh my god.
Erika Forsyth (38:29) Looking at it.
Scott Benner (38:29) Yeah. (38:30) No. (38:30) I mean, yeah, there's times when I lived my whole life thinking that, like, every second she was about to die. (38:36) You know, there's stories are all over the podcast about where I Mhmm. (38:39) Had my little lessons along the way and, you know, what technology has been helpful and
Erika Forsyth (38:44) Mhmm.
Scott Benner (38:44) And not. (38:44) But I guess what I'm saying is, again, like earlier is this you're all gonna go through this. (38:50) Like, nobody's not going to go through this. (38:52) You're either gonna go through it or you're gonna ignore it, and it's gonna bother you in the back of your brain for the rest of your life, one or the other. (38:58) It's not about avoiding it.
Scott Benner (38:59) It's about seeing it and finding a way whether it's through community support, someone in your family, something you read online, a book. (39:07) Doesn't matter to me, like, where you figure it out, where you can look at the problem and say, okay. (39:12) This is not a thing that needs my attention all the time. (39:14) We're gonna be okay if we're not talking about this every second of the day. (39:18) Let's move on, find out what the next thing is, and get past that.
Erika Forsyth (39:22) Yes.
Scott Benner (39:22) That just seems to be how it feels to me.
Erika Forsyth (39:26) Yes. (39:26) K. (39:26) This this next one is kind of what I think you were alluding to when we first started chatting, choosing your battles. (39:34) So learning and understanding when to fight and accept what you need instead of fighting within yourself. (39:42) So this might look like, you know, asking for accommodations in the schools, in your workplace, in your family system as opposed to, I I'm just gonna push through.
Erika Forsyth (39:53) I'm not gonna make them wait. (39:54) I'm gonna go do my thing. (39:56) You know, this is kind of coming out from that apology stage where you're like, I'm sorry. (40:00) I need to go do this. (40:01) Please don't.
Erika Forsyth (40:02) You know?
Scott Benner (40:02) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (40:03) And I have I have a quote here. (40:04) It's fairly long, so I don't know if I need to read it or not.
Scott Benner (40:07) You want to?
Erika Forsyth (40:08) For it?
Scott Benner (40:08) Yeah. (40:08) Right.
Erika Forsyth (40:08) So this is I don't know who this person is who wrote who wrote this with I was talking about body grief casually with a colleague, and she holds in person meetups for for type ones, grown up grown up t one d's. (40:24) And she sent me this quote from someone who went to the meetup, and I thought, oh my gosh. (40:29) This is exactly, you know, choosing your battles and building body trust. (40:34) After after the meetup, not only did I feel so much better about the decision to get surgery, but I also felt better about taking medical leave for more than a few days for it to really allow myself to care for my diabetes and allow it to impact my life instead of focusing so hard on trying to ignore that I'm chronically ill. (40:54) It's a lesson that I'm working on that sometimes strength and being a warrior means fighting for rest and self care instead of fighting with myself to avoid being different than people who don't have die disabilities.
Erika Forsyth (41:09) Yeah. (41:09) So I just love that. (41:10) Like, she's fighting for her time off. (41:13) She's fight you know? (41:14) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (41:14) And fighting to take care of herself, fighting to acknowledge that she might need more time
Scott Benner (41:19) to
Erika Forsyth (41:19) recover because of her diabetes or whatever it may be. (41:24) And so I just want us to kind of consider being a t one d warrior. (41:30) I think we automatically think, you know, pushing through, fighting for it. (41:33) Don't let it get in the way, but also it might mean fighting for that extra day off. (41:38) Right?
Erika Forsyth (41:38) Or whatever whatever the the lesson or example may be.
Scott Benner (41:41) Yeah. (41:42) Live in the reality of your situation too. (41:44) Not not to like, you know, I just had a procedure maybe nine days ago. (41:48) And, you know, I remember saying to the doctor, like, when will I feel better? (41:51) He goes, oh, you'll be up and moving the next day.
Scott Benner (41:53) You'll be sore and stuff like that. (41:55) And in my mind, I'm like, oh, so I'll be just be fine the next day. (41:58) And then when I wasn't, instead of fighting it, I was like, yeah. (42:02) I'm not. (42:02) So I'll just take it easy.
Scott Benner (42:04) And I, you know, I didn't I didn't wanna take Advil afterwards, but but I did. (42:08) I was like, alright. (42:09) It turns out I need this. (42:10) Like, you know, like, I and I think when I was younger, I'm trying to decide as we're talking, was I stronger and therefore more able to ignore the situation even though I was going through it? (42:24) And now that I'm older, I can't ignore it, or is this a maturity thing?
Scott Benner (42:30) And back then, I was just being immature about it, and now I'm being more mature. (42:33) I can't decide if it Right. (42:35) Which it is exactly. (42:36) I don't think I'm gonna know ever, but that's my wonderment. (42:39) It's like, is that was that is this maturity or is it a physical inability?
Scott Benner (42:44) And I don't think it matters one way or the other. (42:45) I think I'm handling it better now than I would have in the past.
Erika Forsyth (42:48) Yeah. (42:48) That's a great example. (42:50) And I think the just noticing the why. (42:53) Right? (42:53) Again, going back to, okay.
Erika Forsyth (42:55) Why am I pushing through? (42:57) Am I not taking more time off because I'm worried about how people are gonna perceive me? (43:02) Is it a stigma thing? (43:04) Is it, I have more physical endurance so I can?
Scott Benner (43:07) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (43:08) You know, what what is it? (43:10) Or is it, you know what? (43:11) I I need more time, and I'm gonna take it, and that's okay.
Scott Benner (43:15) Yeah. (43:15) And it's hard to say, but, you know, if your job, for example, doesn't want to give you time, maybe that's not the right job for you. (43:23) You know what I mean? (43:24) Like, if your friends don't wanna be supportive a little longer, maybe those aren't the right friends. (43:28) I I know that's a hard thing to say because at the end of those sentences, you're alone or broke or whatever.
Scott Benner (43:33) Mhmm. (43:33) You won't be alone or broke in your heart and in your day to day existence, and and there's trade offs in there. (43:39) I'd rather you feel centered and cared for personally then I mean, don't get me wrong. (43:47) Like, if once or twice you gotta tough it out and go to work when you're sick or something like that. (43:51) Like, it is what it is, but, like, not if it's pervasive over your entire life.
Scott Benner (43:55) That's that's different. (43:56) You know?
Erika Forsyth (43:57) Creeping into, you know, the boundary setting. (44:00) Right? (44:00) Like, what it looks like and feels like for honoring what you need and how that might create discomfort for other people
Scott Benner (44:08) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth (44:09) Or your company.
Scott Benner (44:10) And I would say too for people who maybe because you listen. (44:12) You're a very kind person. (44:13) You're well educated. (44:14) We don't talk about it enough, but you are.
Erika Forsyth (44:16) Thank you.
Scott Benner (44:17) What did you just say? (44:18) You just said making what did you say? (44:19) Make you sometimes just say making space or, what what did you just say?
Erika Forsyth (44:23) Setting. (44:23) Setting.
Scott Benner (44:24) Uh-huh. (44:24) Yeah. (44:25) Let me put this another way for people who that may that is, uncomfortable for because they're like, oh, that's that's a therapy talk. (44:31) Just tell people to go to hell. (44:32) Okay?
Scott Benner (44:33) Like That
Erika Forsyth (44:35) is not what I'm saying.
Scott Benner (44:36) That's not what she said. (44:36) That's what I'm saying. (44:37) Okay. (44:38) You'd call your job up and you say, listen. (44:40) Go fuck yourself.
Scott Benner (44:41) Okay? (44:42) I'll be back on Wednesday and you'll live with it. (44:44) And I do a good job here, and I've been here for four years, and cut me a break. (44:48) My thing don't work. (44:49) That's it.
Scott Benner (44:50) And I don't wanna hear about it.
Erika Forsyth (44:51) Letting me know that, yes, that is Scott's coping skill. (44:54) Not yes.
Scott Benner (44:55) That's You would say set boundaries. (44:57) That's nice. (44:58) Mhmm. (44:58) I would say maybe once in a while, you gotta tell people to shut them shut up. (45:03) Oh.
Scott Benner (45:04) Over here trying to deal with a thing. (45:06) Listen. (45:07) My brother got sick a month ago. (45:09) And, you know, I I I've told told that I don't wanna, like, over, like, vomit, but he was hiding it a little bit from me. (45:15) Like, we talked pretty frequently.
Scott Benner (45:17) It's his wife that stepped up and said, hey. (45:19) He doesn't feel well. (45:20) He doesn't wanna tell you. (45:21) I got him right on the phone. (45:22) I was like, what's this going on?
Scott Benner (45:23) What are we? (45:24) Five? (45:24) What's wrong? (45:25) And, like and he explained to me what's going on. (45:27) And I was like, what where are they at?
Scott Benner (45:29) And he explains what the doctor says. (45:30) I said, that's not right. (45:32) I was like, I think this is what's going on with you. (45:34) And I over the next couple of days, remote controlled from halfway across the country, moved him through some situations, some doctor's appointments, got him where he needs to be. (45:44) And one of the last steps was I and people are gonna like, people are gonna come back out.
Scott Benner (45:50) You're out of your mind. (45:50) I made him I didn't make him. (45:52) I asked him. (45:52) He called his doctor's office, gave them permission for me to speak to them. (45:57) I got on the phone with the nurse.
Scott Benner (45:59) I went over the entire thing. (46:00) Not that my brother's not capable. (46:02) My brother was at that moment on a factory floor running a giant press so that you guys all have something out in the world that you buy all the time. (46:09) He couldn't not go to work. (46:11) He had to go.
Scott Benner (46:11) He was sick. (46:12) He was really in trouble. (46:14) Terrible joint pain, rundown, really in a bad way. (46:18) I texted him. (46:19) I said, got your doctor's appointment.
Scott Benner (46:20) I need you to leave work and go to this appointment. (46:22) You have to take this appointment. (46:23) It's the only one they have. (46:24) He says, I can't leave work. (46:25) I was like, yes.
Scott Benner (46:26) You can. (46:27) I was like, get out of there. (46:28) I was like, you cannot afford not to leave work. (46:30) Just leave. (46:30) So he worked it out.
Scott Benner (46:31) He left. (46:32) By the way, he filled out some paperwork. (46:34) He got, like, some short term FMLA. (46:36) He got paid for it. (46:37) It all worked out fine, but that is not why I'm telling you the story.
Scott Benner (46:40) I'm telling you the story because we have a group chat, my brothers and I, and he said, I haven't had any pain for a week now. (46:50) I'm really starting to feel better. (46:52) I got my FMLA. (46:54) That worked out. (46:55) I really appreciate everything you did for me.
Scott Benner (46:58) I would definitely still be in pain if you weren't involved. (47:02) Aw. (47:02) I'm telling you that because he wasn't capable. (47:07) He was capable of handling the situation. (47:09) He wasn't capable of I'm use your word, of creating boundaries in places during the situation where he needed them.
Scott Benner (47:16) So because he wouldn't set a boundary at work, because he wouldn't set a boundary with the doctor and a couple of other places, they were stringing him along and leaving him in pain and telling him that what was true wasn't true. (47:29) Mhmm. (47:30) Because I don't know what's wrong with me. (47:32) I stood up and I was like, no. (47:34) We're right.
Scott Benner (47:35) They're wrong. (47:35) Push back. (47:36) And he's like, well, did. (47:38) I said I was like, no. (47:39) No.
Scott Benner (47:39) No. (47:39) No. (47:39) And I got him on the phone, and I just I just said to him, like, my brother clearly has an underlying infection. (47:44) I was like, your doctor being afraid to give him the right medication, I don't care about this anymore. (47:49) Because what had happened was the doctor pushed him off on the ER.
Scott Benner (47:53) The doctor didn't wanna give him the the antibiotic because he wasn't hitting the right markers, but it was clear what was wrong. (47:59) So the doctor and sent him to the ER thinking the ER would do it. (48:03) Well, the ER and sent him back to his doctor. (48:06) So they started ping ponging him back and forth. (48:08) The doctor actually sent him back to an ER, the same ER, the second time.
Scott Benner (48:13) And later, during conversation, admitted to him, I was just hoping they would give you the antibiotic. (48:20) And so because I'll get in trouble if I give it to you. (48:24) And then finally, when he wrote the script, handed it to my brother and at the end said, I hope I don't get in trouble for this. (48:30) And now Brian's fine. (48:32) So nobody wanted to do the right thing for him.
Scott Benner (48:35) Mhmm. (48:35) And if he wouldn't have set boundaries up or somebody wouldn't have set boundaries up, I honestly don't know where he'd be at this point.
Erika Forsyth (48:40) So Probably still in pain.
Scott Benner (48:43) Yeah. (48:43) With an underlying infection that nobody can just because they couldn't find it. (48:47) I mean, it was one of those things where it walked like a duck, quack like a duck, and everybody was like, I I see a horse. (48:52) It just was terrible. (48:53) Anyway, I'm saying, you know, based on what we're talking about here, choose your battles.
Scott Benner (48:58) Yes. (48:59) But, you know, when they're right to have, have them. (49:02) And when they're not, don't torture yourself over them. (49:04) Yes.
Erika Forsyth (49:05) And he might have been even prior to your involvement, might have been in some of these stages of body grief.
Scott Benner (49:11) Oh, no. (49:11) Yeah. (49:12) I mean, if I go back in those texts, you're gonna see, like, I can't believe I feel like this. (49:16) I can't pick my head up. (49:17) Shocked.
Scott Benner (49:18) Cloudy. (49:18) I can't make decisions. (49:20) Mean, look at him. (49:20) He's lying to me about how he feels.
Erika Forsyth (49:22) Mhmm. (49:23) Dismissal.
Scott Benner (49:24) His wife is scared to tell me because she she sheepishly told me she didn't wanna break his trust. (49:30) You you know what I mean? (49:31) Like, there's a lot of, like, a lot of little human stuff that goes on. (49:34) I'm sorry. (49:34) Yes.
Scott Benner (49:35) I took you way off the course. (49:36) Are are we No.
Erika Forsyth (49:37) That's so, yeah, fighting fighting for what you need. (49:40) Right? (49:40) Whatever that looks like is also being aware. (49:43) Okay. (49:44) So practicing being human, noticing that envy might come up, right, as you are looking at at graphs online or other social media posts or even seeing pictures of people going on vacation, and you're having these thoughts of, like, must be nice to go on a vacation and not have to bring you think about all of our supplies, etcetera.
Erika Forsyth (50:05) Or, you know, they don't they don't know how good they have it. (50:09) They don't have a chronic illness. (50:11) Or if only those were my numbers, then dot dot dot. (50:15) Right? (50:15) So noticing the envy is a natural human emotion, and sometimes it it can be motivating, but it also can lead to a lot of shame, and it could also keep you in this fight mode.
Erika Forsyth (50:30) Right? (50:30) That because you're you're resentful, you're grieving, you're angry, and so it can keep you there. (50:37) If that's what you're kind of filling your your mind with, you're, you know, looking at images, hearing stories, and that's and noticing these thoughts that are happening. (50:45) So noticing, again, noticing what is going on as you think about this fight mode. (50:51) Is there a a component of envy in addition to all of it?
Erika Forsyth (50:54) And that's that is normal. (50:56) That is okay And acknowledging it, processing it.
Scott Benner (51:01) Yeah. (51:01) But it can keep you in
Erika Forsyth (51:02) the fight. (51:03) Yes. (51:03) Yes.
Scott Benner (51:03) You know, you have to again, process it. (51:06) You gotta move past it at some point.
Erika Forsyth (51:07) Okay. (51:08) And the last one is she coined this term, which I've I've never heard before. (51:12) I don't know if you have, Jomo. (51:14) It's like we we know FOMO. (51:16) Right?
Erika Forsyth (51:16) Fear of missing out. (51:17) Mhmm. (51:18) But she uses this term Jomo, the joy of missing out. (51:23) Noticing, are there times when you need to say no in order to take care of your body instead of feeling like you have to say yes? (51:32) And can you reframe that as like, gosh.
Erika Forsyth (51:35) You know what? (51:36) I'm gonna I'm gonna build this body trust. (51:38) I'm gonna give my body what it needs in order to trust my body. (51:43) My body has to trust me that I'm gonna take care of it. (51:45) So I'm gonna say no to some things that might be that might be positive.
Erika Forsyth (51:51) And, I mean, I'm thinking about, you know, just events, but it could be something even smaller
Scott Benner (51:56) Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth (51:57) Where it's it's a way to be really kind to your body and cannot be experienced as joyful instead of fearful. (52:04) I know it's a kind of a a twist and a tweak on that phrase, but I really liked that way of thinking about it.
Scott Benner (52:11) No. (52:11) I'm glad you brought that up. (52:12) The one thing that seems like it could be the most difficult around this is, like, figuring out the difference between a limitation that is genuinely limiting, and you wanna reach for some Jomo and a limitation that is more about a blockade you've put up for yourself. (52:33) And if you did push through, you'd get on the other side of it. (52:36) Like, that's that's a tough one because I, you know, I think this is everybody's gone through that and everybody's known somebody going through it.
Scott Benner (52:42) Right? (52:43) But I've got somebody in my life right now who's having a struggle and part of it is completely legitimate and part of it is a little self sabotage too. (52:53) How do you show them no, you know, this is real but your response to it is keeping you there? (53:00) And even if you show it to them, how do they how do they believe it and move past it again? (53:05) It's all it's all very interesting.
Scott Benner (53:06) I appreciate the conversation.
Erika Forsyth (53:08) You know, I think that's that's a great point. (53:10) And I think that that, you know, maybe we don't wanna go too deep into this at this point, but I think that the concept of, yeah, how do you respond to either a painful situation, diagnosis, whatever it may be that you're struggling with? (53:23) I don't think anyone intentionally is choosing self sabotage, but there's there's obvious and I I I don't hear you suggesting that at all.
Scott Benner (53:31) I just feel like she's this person's had so many struggles and so many failures that they just think that this is the reality now. (53:39) Yes. (53:39) You you know? (53:40) And and the fighting seems seems, pointless because everything keeps going wrong all the time. (53:50) And what I see in this specific situation is a couple of decisions here or there made differently.
Scott Benner (53:56) Mhmm. (53:56) Would have put them in a different situation. (53:58) They might not feel like that anymore. (53:59) But then that's, you know, still not how it occurred to them at the time. (54:03) And, yeah, I can't stand next to them or somebody else somebody else can't stand next to you all the time going, oh, is that what you thought?
Scott Benner (54:08) No. (54:09) It's not left. (54:10) It's right. (54:10) Yeah. (54:10) I don't know.
Scott Benner (54:11) It's, being alive is a lot of work. (54:16) It really is.
Erika Forsyth (54:16) It is. (54:17) And we we are we are going to get to you know, our hope is that at the end of each of these episodes, we are giving some tools to kind of work through the stage and at the end, obviously, focusing on cultivating, you know, more hope, cultivating more body trust to help kind of work your way through all of the stages. (54:35) Yeah. (54:36) But it is it is hard. (54:38) It is hard work.
Scott Benner (54:39) I certainly hope that is what we're doing.
Erika Forsyth (54:40) Yes. (54:41) So Hopefully.
Scott Benner (54:42) Thank you very much for doing this with me. (54:44) I really appreciate. (54:45) Scottie going on vacation. (54:46) So I'll be back, and, we'll finish this up in a couple of weeks.
Erika Forsyth (54:49) You're out.
Scott Benner (54:50) Thank you.
Erika Forsyth (54:51) Thank you.
Scott Benner (54:58) I'd like to remind you again about the MiniMed seven eighty g automated insulin delivery system, which, of course, anticipates, adjusts, and corrects every five minutes twenty four seven. (55:08) It works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. (55:13) The Juice Box community knows the importance of using technology to simplify managing diabetes. (55:18) To learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes, visit my link, metronicdiabetes.com/juicebox. (55:30) Having an easy to use and accurate blood glucose meter is just one click away.
Scott Benner (55:36) Contournext.com/juicebox. (55:39) That's right. (55:40) Today's episode is sponsored by the Contour NextGen blood glucose meter. (55:46) Hey. (55:47) I'm dropping in to tell you about a small change being made to the Juice Cruise twenty '26 schedule.
Scott Benner (55:52) This adjustment was made by Celebrity Cruise Lines, not by me. (55:55) Anyway, we're still going out on the Celebrity Beyond cruise ship, which is awesome. (55:59) Check out the walkthrough video at juice box podcast dot com slash juice cruise. (56:04) The ship is awesome. (56:06) Still a seven night cruise.
Scott Benner (56:08) It still leaves out of Miami on June 21. (56:11) Actually, most of this is the same. (56:12) We leave Miami June 21, head to Coco Cay in The Bahamas, but then we're going to San Juan, Puerto Rico instead of Saint Thomas. (56:20) After that, Bastille, I think I'm saying that wrong, Saint Kitts And Nevis. (56:24) This place is gorgeous.
Scott Benner (56:26) Google it. (56:27) I mean, you're probably gonna have to go to my link to get the correct spelling because my pronunciation is so bad. (56:30) But once you get the Saint Kitts and you Google it, you're gonna look and see a photo that says to you, oh, I wanna go there. (56:37) Come meet other people living with type one diabetes from caregivers to children to adults. (56:44) Last year, we had a 100 people on our cruise, and it was fabulous.
Scott Benner (56:49) You can see pictures to get at my link juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise. (56:54) You can see those pictures from last year there. (56:56) The link also gives you an opportunity to register for the cruise or to contact Suzanne from Cruise Planners. (57:02) She takes care of all the logistics. (57:04) I'm just excited that I might see you there.
Scott Benner (57:06) It's a beautiful event for families, for singles, a wonderful opportunity to meet people, swap stories, make friendships, and learn. (57:15) My diabetes pro tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward practical insights that truly make a difference. (57:24) This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin, dosing adjustments, or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. (57:35) I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over thirty five years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. (57:44) The diabetes pro tip series runs between episode one thousand and one thousand twenty five in your podcast player, where you can listen to it at juiceboxpodcast.com by going up into the menu.
Scott Benner (57:55) Have a podcast? (57:56) Want it to sound fantastic? (57:58) Wrongwayrecording.com.
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