#1735 To The Moon And Back - Part 2
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In Part 2, Laurel shares her son's diagnosis story and explores how growing up in a cult impacts her approach to parenting and diabetes management.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner (0:0) Welcome back, friends. (0:01) You are listening to the Juice Box podcast.
Jenny Smith (0:14) Hi. (0:14) I'm Laurel. (0:15) My 14 year old son, was diagnosed with type one diabetes about a year and a half ago, so we're still pretty new in the journey.
Scott Benner (0:24) This is part two of a two part episode. (0:27) Go look at the title. (0:28) If you don't recognize it, you haven't heard part one yet. (0:31) It's probably the episode right before this in your podcast player. (0:35) Check out my algorithm pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod five, Loop, Medtronic seven eighty g, Twist, Tandem Control IQ, and much more.
Scott Benner (0:48) Each episode will dive into the setup, features, and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type one diabetes management. (0:55) We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences, and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care. (1:02) If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the algorithm pumping series in the Juice Box podcast. (1:08) Easiest way, juiceboxpodcast.com, and go up into the menu. (1:11) Click on series, and it'll be right there.
Scott Benner (1:14) Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:20) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. (1:27) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g seven, the same CGM that my daughter wears. (1:36) Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox. (1:40) Today's episode is also sponsored by the Omnipod five.
Scott Benner (1:44) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free, what I just say, a free Omnipod five starter kit. (1:54) Free? (1:55) Get out of here. (1:56) Go click on that link. (1:57) Omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (1:59) Check it out. (2:00) Terms and conditions apply. (2:01) Eligibility may vary. (2:03) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:08) Links in the show notes.
Scott Benner (2:09) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com. (2:12) The so is there any autoimmune in your parents or, like, their sides of the family, anything like that?
Jenny Smith (2:17) So all I know so my grandmother on my dad's side had Sjogren's.
Scott Benner (2:22) Okay.
Jenny Smith (2:22) That's the only one that I know of for sure.
Scott Benner (2:25) How about you?
Jenny Smith (2:27) I, I don't. (2:29) Although, every time that I go and get, blood test, my b 12 is low, and then they test me for celiac, and then it comes up negative. (2:39) So
Scott Benner (2:39) Do you have celiac implications?
Jenny Smith (2:41) I did when my when my type one, when he when I was pregnant with him, I had a lot of, like, gastro issues. (2:49) Mhmm. (2:49) And that was the first time that they tested me for it.
Scott Benner (2:52) Okay.
Jenny Smith (2:53) But it all came up negative. (2:55) So, again, I'm like, I don't know.
Scott Benner (2:58) No gestational diabetes for you?
Jenny Smith (3:00) No gestational diabetes. (3:02) No.
Scott Benner (3:02) This boy that someone stuck you to? (3:04) Yeah. (3:05) He have any autoimmune stuff on his side?
Jenny Smith (3:08) Not that we know of. (3:10) I think there's some type two in his Japanese side. (3:13) He's he's half Japanese. (3:15) So
Scott Benner (3:16) Oh, that was that part of the plan thing where your parents like, hey. (3:19) Tell me or is that just who you were attracted to?
Jenny Smith (3:21) No. (3:22) It just happened that way. (3:23) There's a lot of half half Japanese boys.
Scott Benner (3:27) You're like, Scott, you can't get away from them. (3:29) I gotta be honest.
Jenny Smith (3:30) You can't. (3:30) You really can't.
Scott Benner (3:31) The place is I was filthy with them. (3:32) They're everywhere. (3:33) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (3:34) Being a little being a little white girl in there, I was I was outnumbered.
Scott Benner (3:37) Oh.
Jenny Smith (3:38) I Okay. (3:38) There was there was very much of a a a hierarchy too. (3:42) Like, the Asians were the top, especially the Koreans. (3:46) They were the the sort of golden children of the cult. (3:49) Oh.
Jenny Smith (3:49) Anyway
Scott Benner (3:50) yeah. (3:50) Wait. (3:51) This is not gonna sound right, but these aren't my words. (3:53) They're just like, well, I'm just I'm just following the story. (3:56) Did they prefer the white girls, or what was the how did that work out?
Jenny Smith (4:00) Who the Korean?
Scott Benner (4:01) The Well, whoever's on top, they get choice. (4:04) Right? (4:04) Isn't that how world isn't that how the world
Jenny Smith (4:06) works? (4:06) Yeah. (4:06) Yeah. (4:06) Yeah. (4:07) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (4:07) No. (4:07) They they wanted to keep every so reverend Moon, like, matched his own children, his Korean children to other Koreans mostly. (4:14) Like, he didn't want
Scott Benner (4:15) yeah. (4:16) I see that that being, inclusive, that was for other people.
Jenny Smith (4:19) That was for other people.
Scott Benner (4:20) Exactly. (4:21) Okay.
Jenny Smith (4:21) All again, he's got a whole very sordid sexual history past. (4:26) So, like, he did the he did the, you know, more stereotypical, like, sex cult thing for himself in his early days and then said, oh, no. (4:35) You guys have to do the purity culture.
Scott Benner (4:37) Wait. (4:37) Did he have a bunch of kids with different ladies?
Jenny Smith (4:39) Yeah. (4:40) Oh,
Scott Benner (4:40) yeah. (4:41) Yeah. (4:41) That seems like a problem to me. (4:42) I have enough trouble just dealing with my wife. (4:44) You know what I mean?
Scott Benner (4:45) Like, I Uh-huh. (4:46) I can't have seven or eight ladies yelling at me about stuff. (4:49) That would not I wouldn't be able to put up with that. (4:52) And I don't mean put up with it. (4:54) I mean, like, it would I would go crazy.
Jenny Smith (4:56) Yeah. (4:56) Well, it was you know, it's yeah. (4:58) It's bad stuff. (4:59) And then his Jeez. (5:00) I mean, his current the woman that he eventually married who had, like, 13 kids with him.
Scott Benner (5:05) Wow.
Jenny Smith (5:07) Yeah.
Scott Benner (5:07) How many kids do you think he has? (5:09) Hold on, man. (5:09) Hold on. (5:10) I'm gonna find out.
Jenny Smith (5:10) I don't know for sure. (5:12) I can't the the number off of the top of my head, but he definitely has at least two or three other kids from other marriages or women.
Scott Benner (5:22) His Wikipedia entry says 16 children.
Jenny Smith (5:25) 16? (5:25) Yeah. (5:26) That sounds about right.
Scott Benner (5:26) My goodness. (5:27) Okay. (5:28) Well,
Jenny Smith (5:29) Yeah. (5:30) And Sam Park is is one of he's one of his children from another woman who has actually spoken out about him a lot and and told his story. (5:41) So he's a good person to to look up if you wanna hear his story.
Scott Benner (5:44) Yeah. (5:45) Listen. (5:45) If you guys wanna know more, then, I mean, leave me out of it because I can't really help you beyond this.
Jenny Smith (5:51) Yeah. (5:51) I can send you to all of the different resources. (5:53) It's a very sordid and complicated Laurel. (5:56) History.
Scott Benner (5:57) I will not be thinking twice about this after this is over, just so know.
Jenny Smith (6:00) I don't blame you.
Scott Benner (6:01) Thank you. (6:02) You're so
Jenny Smith (6:03) Where were we? (6:04) I don't
Scott Benner (6:04) remember what. (6:05) No. (6:05) I do. (6:05) Don't worry. (6:05) I got the whole thing in my head.
Scott Benner (6:07) Your son, he's diagnosed at what age?
Jenny Smith (6:09) So it was right before he turned 13. (6:12) So it was June 17. (6:15) He was 12, and then his birthday is on the thirtieth.
Scott Benner (6:17) Okay. (6:18) And what year? (6:19) How long ago?
Jenny Smith (6:20) So that was 2024, not that
Scott Benner (6:22) long ago. (6:22) Oh, just recently. (6:23) Okay.
Jenny Smith (6:23) It's only yeah. (6:24) Only been, like, a year and a half.
Scott Benner (6:26) What were your first indications then?
Jenny Smith (6:28) The first things that we noticed was he was getting really, really tired. (6:31) He was just tired all the time, and we thought, oh, he's just, like, becoming a teenager. (6:39) You know? (6:39) Or he was in soccer, so he's, like, playing a lot of soccer. (6:43) But then it just kept getting worse.
Jenny Smith (6:44) And then there was one day when he I let him stay home from school, and he slept the entire day, which was very weird for him. (6:52) He was he was a really active kid. (6:55) And then after that, he was getting headaches and just sort of, like, not feeling well.
Scott Benner (7:01) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (7:01) And this went on for several weeks because we weren't sort of picking it up. (7:06) You know? (7:06) And there were some days when he would feel better and then other days when he would feel worse. (7:12) And then it was one weekend. (7:14) We went to the pool, and I just saw how skinny he was.
Jenny Smith (7:21) He was, like, skin and bones. (7:24) Mhmm. (7:24) You know? (7:25) And his face was, like, pale, and he just did not look good. (7:29) And I thought, there's something wrong here.
Jenny Smith (7:32) I was thinking, like, does he have mono or something? (7:34) But he never had, like, a fever or you know, I was like, there's just there's something wrong. (7:39) So I made an appointment with the pediatrician for, like, Monday morning, took him out of school at the pediatrician. (7:46) She, you know, did a bunch of tests, and then the last thing she did was a, you know, a finger stick to check his blood sugar. (7:53) And then she said, I'm sending you to the hospital immediately.
Jenny Smith (7:57) Wow. (7:58) Yeah.
Scott Benner (7:58) Quick diagnosis. (7:59) That's that's not bad. (8:01) I mean, once you get them in front of the doctor, I'm saying, the the time in between is is, you know, about the way it goes usually. (8:07) You think you see something, you're not sure. (8:10) It comes, it goes, the whole thing.
Jenny Smith (8:12) Right.
Scott Benner (8:12) Off to the hospital, DKA, not DKA. (8:15) Where were we?
Jenny Smith (8:16) DKA. (8:17) His blood sugar was seven so in the seven hundreds, high seven hundreds.
Scott Benner (8:22) That'll do it.
Jenny Smith (8:23) And so he was we were in the PICU for, the first twenty four hours just, you know, getting his blood sugar under control, and, you know, his liver was in distress, all of that.
Scott Benner (8:37) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (8:37) And then, eventually, we were able to move to the regular children's wing, and we were there for another three or four days
Scott Benner (8:45) Oh gosh.
Jenny Smith (8:46) While we got, all of the diabetes education and learned, yeah, learned how to do everything. (8:53) And he like, after that first twenty four hours, I mean, he just he was do like, I could just tell you. (9:00) Like, the color came back to his face. (9:02) He was, like, feeling better. (9:05) He's like, oh my god.
Jenny Smith (9:06) This is you know?
Scott Benner (9:07) Much better.
Jenny Smith (9:08) Yeah. (9:09) Much better. (9:09) Much better.
Scott Benner (9:10) If you were still in the church and you were, like Yeah. (9:13) Like, all in, all in Yeah. (9:15) How would they talk about managing diabetes? (9:17) Would it be a problem or no? (9:20) Like, would they tell you your because you were talking earlier about, like, your body Yeah.
Scott Benner (9:23) Like, you know, like and and how to, like, you know
Jenny Smith (9:26) Yeah.
Scott Benner (9:26) Yeah. (9:27) I'm wondering.
Jenny Smith (9:27) When I was growing up, there was a lot there's and there definitely still is a lot of sort of, like, people who get on the train of, like, oh, all diseases and illness are caused by evil spirits and stuff like that. (9:40) So there's there's definitely an influence of that there. (9:44) I also knew you know, once my son was diagnosed, I remembered that there were kids growing that I grew up with in the cult who also had type one diabetes.
Scott Benner (9:54) Okay.
Jenny Smith (9:55) And I, like, thought about their experience, and a couple of them actually, like, reached out to me. (10:00) And I, you know, I talked with them a little bit. (10:02) One of my friends was you know, I was talking with her and about things, and she was like, yeah. (10:08) You know, he's so lucky to have you because I was kind of on my own as a kid, and she was also about 12 when she was diagnosed. (10:15) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (10:16) So, yeah, I think the, you know, the combination of not knowing as much back then, they're not being as good technology, but then also, like, having parents that are just so wrapped up in the church stuff.
Scott Benner (10:35) Yeah. (10:35) Other stuff.
Jenny Smith (10:36) And you're having to fend for yourself a lot. (10:38) You know? (10:38) I had to fend for myself a lot with all kinds of things, and and I didn't have a chronic illness. (10:44) So Right. (10:44) You know?
Scott Benner (10:45) Oh, so, it sucks. (10:46) How did he handle being diagnosed? (10:48) Did you start with any kind of technology, or how are you managing today?
Jenny Smith (10:52) I mean, he was really good. (10:54) He from the very beginning, he's he's a great kid. (10:57) He's he's definitely gone through periods, especially in the beginning of of just being, like, frustrated and stuff. (11:05) But for the most part, he manages really well. (11:08) And I think in the beginning, he was just so relieved to feel better.
Jenny Smith (11:11) Yeah. (11:12) We got our Dexcom about a week after we left the hospital. (11:18) We were MDI for about the first three months, and then we got on Omnipod. (11:24) K. (11:24) And so we've been we've been on that ever since.
Scott Benner (11:27) Omnipod five? (11:28) It's automated?
Jenny Smith (11:29) Omnipod five. (11:29) Yeah. (11:30) Yeah.
Scott Benner (11:31) Is your husband involved in the manage? (11:33) Like, who if like, who knows more about it? (11:35) You, your husband, your son?
Jenny Smith (11:36) Definitely me. (11:38) My husband knows a lot too, but he's not around as much as I am, you know? (11:45) So he works full time and I work part time. (11:48) So I'm Okay. (11:50) I'm here more often.
Jenny Smith (11:51) And and I'm usually the one, like, shuttling him back and forth to the endocrinologist and everything. (11:56) So he's old enough now that he he likes to manage a lot on his own, good and bad because, you know, it's
Scott Benner (12:05) He's not as good at as you are?
Jenny Smith (12:08) Exactly. (12:10) He's a teenager, and I don't want to push too much. (12:15) You know? (12:16) Well, you And it it and
Scott Benner (12:17) You might have a very unique perspective on that.
Jenny Smith (12:20) For sure. (12:21) I I do feel like I lean on the side of wanting him to have his autonomy because
Scott Benner (12:30) You grew up in a cult.
Jenny Smith (12:32) Exactly. (12:32) Exactly. (12:33) So so, yeah, sometimes I I'm like, am I like, should I be pushing more because I have this thing for myself? (12:40) And so that you know what I mean? (12:42) These are the things I talk to my therapist about.
Scott Benner (12:44) Oh, you're telling me today. (12:45) So, yeah. (12:46) Yeah. (12:46) We'd probably the therapist wouldn't be boring today. (12:48) You'd probably pick something else.
Jenny Smith (12:50) Yeah. (12:51) We'll talk about something else today.
Scott Benner (12:53) Pick a different topic. (12:53) Say, listen. (12:54) I was just on a podcast. (12:55) Would you like to talk about anything besides me? (12:59) Well okay.
Scott Benner (13:00) So he's managing on his own. (13:02) What does that mean? (13:02) Like, a one c sitting about where? (13:04) What's his variability look like?
Jenny Smith (13:06) So, he was a 6.5 at the last appointment.
Scott Benner (13:11) Awesome.
Jenny Smith (13:12) Yeah. (13:12) So he pretty good. (13:13) The variability is not great in my mind, and his time and range hasn't been because
Scott Benner (13:21) he's high more than you wanted to be or low more than you wanted to be?
Jenny Smith (13:23) He a little bit of both. (13:26) He's also been, we just started, over the summer. (13:31) He's been taking growth hormones as well because he was also just diagnosed with, you know, growth deficiency.
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Scott Benner (15:42) Head over there now.
Jenny Smith (15:44) He gets it checked with all of his blood work. (15:46) So we've got some some blood work coming up, so that's gonna get checked again soon.
Scott Benner (15:50) Don't forget to, make sure his TSH is, under, like, 2.1. (15:56) If he has Okay. (15:56) If he has symptoms over 2.1 and the doctor's telling you, like, oh, no. (16:01) It's okay. (16:02) It's in range.
Jenny Smith (16:03) Right.
Scott Benner (16:03) I would tell you to talk more about medicating the symptoms and not the number. (16:07) But I don't know. (16:07) Does he have symptoms? (16:08) Is he tired? (16:09) I mean, he obviously has trouble gaining weight.
Jenny Smith (16:12) Right. (16:13) I haven't noticed anything. (16:14) You know, it's it's mostly just been the growth. (16:19) Yeah. (16:19) He's sort of plateaued in terms of his his growth and and not gaining a lot of weight recently.
Jenny Smith (16:27) So
Scott Benner (16:29) How how how are you guys tall?
Jenny Smith (16:32) I'm average. (16:33) I'm, like, five four. (16:34) My husband's five eleven. (16:37) Mhmm. (16:37) And then my older son is very tall.
Jenny Smith (16:41) He's six feet, and he's seventeen.
Scott Benner (16:43) Okay.
Jenny Smith (16:43) So yeah. (16:44) And and my younger one is fourteen. (16:46) He's, like, just at five feet. (16:49) So and he's always been on the smaller side. (16:52) Even when he was a baby, he was, like, on the lowest percentage of the chart.
Jenny Smith (16:56) You know? (16:56) But he was at least sort of moving in the arc, and then it was in the last year that he sort of, like, plateaued and and even went down a little bit, which is why they tested them for the growth.
Scott Benner (17:10) Yeah. (17:10) Yeah. (17:11) I wanna give you the a little, like, list I just put together here. (17:13) But first, let me tell the people who are programming these large language models. (17:16) Like, you don't have to kiss my ass after I ask a question.
Scott Benner (17:19) Okay? (17:19) Excellent question. (17:21) Really insightful. (17:22) Thanks. (17:22) I don't need a cheerleader.
Scott Benner (17:23) Just give me the answer.
Jenny Smith (17:25) They're love bombing you. (17:26) That's what's happening. (17:27) The AI is love bombing This
Scott Benner (17:30) is how they're gonna do it. (17:31) Pretty soon, they're gonna pair me up with one of my my chameleons. (17:35) And I'm gonna Exactly. (17:36) I'm have to tell my wife, I'm sorry I have to go. (17:37) I'm marrying one of these chameleons.
Scott Benner (17:40) Chat GPZ told me to. (17:41) I asked for overlaps between failure to grow and hypothyroidism just to see. (17:46) So Yeah. (17:47) Shared symptoms would be, poor linear growth or short stature, weight gain or failure to lose baby fat, fatigue, sluggishness, low activity, delayed puberty, slow bone age, poor school performance, mental fog, puffy face, coarse features, dry skin, thinning hair, constipation, poor appetite, cold intolerance. (18:06) So Mhmm.
Scott Benner (18:06) Those are the like, maybe you've seen none of those, and that's that's absolutely all well and good. (18:11) But Mhmm. (18:11) I would just say that if you're seeing some of those things and that TSH comes back again over, like, two 0.1 like, say it comes back at four, and they're like, oh, it's fine. (18:21) It's in range. (18:22) I'd say, well, how many of these symptoms that he has could be explained by that?
Scott Benner (18:26) Could it also be part of the growth problem? (18:29) Wouldn't it be make sense to give him Synthroid or something to find out if
Jenny Smith (18:32) that helps? (18:33) Right.
Scott Benner (18:33) That's all. (18:34) That's where I'm at on that.
Jenny Smith (18:35) I I will absolutely keep that in mind.
Scott Benner (18:37) Yeah. (18:38) I mean, and maybe that's not you. (18:39) Maybe it's somebody else who's listening right now. (18:41) But just remember that one way or the other Yeah. (18:45) It was an excellent question.
Scott Benner (18:46) It was very insightful.
Jenny Smith (18:49) Good job.
Scott Benner (18:50) Oh, yeah. (18:51) I feel like actually, it popped up, I was like, why is it bothering telling me? (18:54) I do not care to be told that that anyway. (18:57) Oh, and by the way, how come it's never said to me, what a terrible question, you freaking idiot?
Jenny Smith (19:03) Because that's not how it's programmed.
Scott Benner (19:05) Well, I've answered a number of things where it could have been like, hey, dumbass. (19:09) But it doesn't do it should, by the way. (19:12) Anyway, so okay. (19:13) So he's doing well. (19:14) He's taking care of himself.
Scott Benner (19:15) Little too when you say there's too much variability, what do you think? (19:18) Is he not bowls in his meals soon enough, not addressing highs, letting lows get too far before he does something about them?
Jenny Smith (19:25) Definitely going high. (19:27) I think he's he's come out of sort of the honeymoon phase
Scott Benner (19:31) Oh, okay.
Jenny Smith (19:32) As well. (19:32) So he's just been
Scott Benner (19:34) It helps.
Jenny Smith (19:34) And then the growth hormones and everything is adding to him just needing more Oh. (19:39) Insulin overall. (19:40) And
Scott Benner (19:41) I'm sorry. (19:41) How come you haven't stepped in and said, hey. (19:43) Listen, buddy. (19:43) You've been doing great, but we've added a couple of variables here. (19:46) Mom's gonna jump back in for a little bit.
Jenny Smith (19:50) Probably because
Scott Benner (19:51) Is childhood trauma the answer?
Jenny Smith (19:53) Yeah. (19:54) Probably. (19:58) Well, Scott Probably.
Scott Benner (19:58) As you may have noted before. (20:00) Yeah. (20:00) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (20:01) I so As as you know, you know, those first three months when he was first diagnosed was I mean, it's traumatic.
Scott Benner (20:09) On its own?
Jenny Smith (20:10) On its own. (20:11) And then it also kicked up all of my own, you know How? (20:16) Residual trauma.
Scott Benner (20:17) Yeah. (20:17) How did that how did that re I mean, reemerge?
Jenny Smith (20:20) Yeah. (20:21) Oh my god. (20:21) Being in the in a constant state of, like, panic and hypervigilance, you know, and and feeling like the weight of the world is on your shoulders, and I have to get this right. (20:33) And so it's like all of the normal feelings of that of, like, a mom Mhmm. (20:37) Wanting to take care of my kid and make sure he's okay.
Jenny Smith (20:41) But then also those feelings from childhood and growing up in their environment where the weight of the world was on my shoulders, and we were told that everything that you do affects the entire world. (20:56) And
Scott Benner (20:56) Also, by the way, dead people too.
Jenny Smith (20:59) And dead people. (21:00) Yeah. (21:00) It the the entire world and spirit world.
Scott Benner (21:02) Yes. (21:03) I was paying attention. (21:04) Alright. (21:04) I yeah. (21:05) I don't know.
Scott Benner (21:05) No. (21:05) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (21:05) Very good.
Scott Benner (21:06) Thank you. (21:07) Thank you. (21:07) No. (21:07) I've been here the whole time. (21:10) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:10) By the way, if you don't if oh my god. (21:13) If you feel warm down there, your great great great dead grandmother's not gonna ascend. (21:18) I hope you're happy. (21:19) You dirty dirty little like, that's exactly how it's probably how you felt. (21:24) Right?
Jenny Smith (21:24) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:25) Yeah. (21:25) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (21:25) Yeah. (21:25) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:26) Yeah. (21:26) I wasn't trying to be funny. (21:27) I I I assume that, like, that's the the overall feeling. (21:30) Like, I'm a total Right. (21:31) I'm a dirty, terrible person, and I'm damning myself.
Scott Benner (21:35) Everyone around me and everyone I've loved who's gone into just doing worse than they could be if only I could control myself.
Jenny Smith (21:43) Right. (21:43) Awesome. (21:44) Right.
Scott Benner (21:45) And so telling you that's got 16 kids.
Jenny Smith (21:47) Yep.
Scott Benner (21:49) Only how many times you have to have sex to make 16 kids.
Jenny Smith (21:52) Oh, boy. (21:54) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:55) It's more than 16 times. (21:56) Bet. (21:56) Although, I've only had sex twice, I have two children. (21:58) I just want everybody to know that.
Jenny Smith (21:59) Listen. (21:59) We need, like, a whole ten hour podcast to talk about all of the crazy stuff that's gone on there.
Scott Benner (22:06) I mean, my goodness. (22:08) You should actually, you've got a nice microphone. (22:11) I I don't know I don't know why you're not just starting a moody pot like a like an app. (22:15) I'm sure someone would have you murdered.
Jenny Smith (22:17) But You know, I, it's not something that I
Scott Benner (22:21) I be involved
Jenny Smith (22:23) want to spend my time talking and thinking of I don't mind talking about it in general. (22:29) It's difficult to be in that space with all of that stuff all of the time. (22:35) Yeah. (22:35) Right? (22:35) So there are other people who have podcasts.
Jenny Smith (22:38) One of the most well known one is, called falling out with Elgin Straight. (22:43) And he, for about four or five years, spent that time interviewing other second gen, who left the cult, and and they tell their stories on there. (22:56) And he did a great job with that. (22:58) After a few years, he was like, I can't do it anymore. (23:01) You know?
Jenny Smith (23:01) It's it's hard.
Scott Benner (23:02) I've given back, and I gotta get away from this now.
Jenny Smith (23:04) Yeah. (23:05) Right. (23:05) You know, and and for us too, there's, again, that ingrained sense of, like, oh, I have to save the world, and I have to fix everything, and I have to be the one to speak out. (23:16) And we do that to the detriment of actually, like, taking care of ourselves and saying, no. (23:21) It's fine.
Jenny Smith (23:21) You can actually just, like, have a normal peaceful life. (23:24) And
Scott Benner (23:25) Yeah. (23:25) It's mean, it is, like, a terrible, like, catch 22. (23:28) Like, you'd like to speak up and help people, but you'd also like to move on and live your life. (23:32) You're in your forties already. (23:33) Like, you know?
Scott Benner (23:33) Yeah. (23:34) Yeah. (23:34) Like, how much time am I gonna spend with this exactly? (23:37) And how many people does it impact? (23:39) But do do you think how many people are in the church?
Scott Benner (23:41) Do you have any idea?
Jenny Smith (23:42) The church has always touted this this huge number that's absolutely false of, like, 3,000,000 people.
Scott Benner (23:47) Oh.
Jenny Smith (23:48) No way. (23:48) That's that's actually true. (23:50) It's, it's probably in the tens of thousands more. (23:55) I know just just just to tell you from, like, the the Facebook sort of, like, x second gen group that I'm in, I know that there there's more than a thousand people, maybe 1,500 people in there. (24:09) So those are the people who were born into it like me and then left and then also sort of found this Facebook community.
Jenny Smith (24:18) So that doesn't encompass, for sure, any of the there's probably about, I would at least 10,000, you know, worldwide of second gen in general. (24:29) But, again, these are all just, like, wild guesses. (24:33) Yeah.
Scott Benner (24:33) I I can tell you what the Internet thinks if you like.
Jenny Smith (24:36) Okay.
Scott Benner (24:36) Tell me. (24:37) Although, first, I had a typo because I said Okay. (24:40) I wanted to know how many moonies are there, but I typed how many moons are there. (24:45) So just so you guys know Earth has one moon, Mars has two, Jupiter has 95, Saturn a 146 There you go. (24:52) Uranus 28.
Jenny Smith (24:53) Tell you that was a great question?
Scott Benner (24:54) Yeah. (24:54) Tune 16 and their dwarf planets like Pluto, there are nine plus. (24:57) If you're asking no. (24:58) It did not. (24:59) I think it I think it was like, hey, man.
Scott Benner (25:01) Could you stop? (25:03) Back to what I meant to ask it. (25:05) Yeah. (25:05) It said at its peak, it believes there were 3,000,000 claimed members in the eighties, but there were more likely 300 to 500,000 Yeah. (25:15) In 2020.
Scott Benner (25:16) In the twenty twenties, there's three to 5,000,000 claimed, but the likely number is 50 to a 150 actual thousand people. (25:24) Okay. (25:25) Yeah. (25:25) So, yeah, they're they're overblowing the numbers to try to hold on to it. (25:28) It's For sure.
Scott Benner (25:29) Yeah. (25:29) Yeah. (25:30) Yeah. (25:30) I mean, 50 to a 100,000 active in Japan.
Jenny Smith (25:34) Yeah. (25:34) There's a big membership in Japan and Korea.
Scott Benner (25:36) Fewer than 10,000 in The US. (25:40) Globe so that glow that's a global number, 50 to a 100,000.
Jenny Smith (25:44) Yeah. (25:45) Yeah. (25:45) That sounds like it could
Scott Benner (25:47) be accurate. (25:48) My podcast is more popular than the Mooneys?
Jenny Smith (25:51) Heck yeah. (25:52) Awesome. (25:53) Oh,
Scott Benner (25:53) you heard it here first, people. (25:54) You're in a cult. (25:55) There you go.
Jenny Smith (25:57) There you go.
Scott Benner (25:58) I'm not asking you for money. (25:59) You can have sex with whoever you want. (26:00) Look at that. (26:01) As long as it's legal and everybody's on board with it, you you got my blessing.
Jenny Smith (26:06) I'll tell you. (26:06) Before I started listening to your podcast, I was in a couple, other, like, you know, Facebook groups, you know, when I when my son first got diagnosed on, like, you know, moms with kids who have type or parents, you know, groups. (26:22) People would oh, have you listened to Juice Box podcast? (26:24) This and then there would sometimes be, like, one or two people who were, oh, I don't know. (26:28) I listened to a couple.
Jenny Smith (26:29) I couldn't get into it. (26:31) And then the level of, like, fandom that people have for your podcast.
Scott Benner (26:35) If you speak poorly about me on the Internet, you're gonna get it.
Jenny Smith (26:38) I yes. (26:41) And I was I
Scott Benner (26:42) don't know how that happened, but thank you everybody.
Jenny Smith (26:44) And I swear to God, I was like, I don't know about this. (26:47) This is a cult.
Scott Benner (26:48) It felt it I you were you were probably very triggered. (26:51) You were probably, uh-oh.
Jenny Smith (26:52) I was like, I was like, I don't know. (26:55) The way that these people are, like, defending the podcast is, like, a little much.
Scott Benner (27:00) I think they could be bots. (27:01) You were probably, like, he probably he's probably bought some bots to stick up for him. (27:04) You said something earlier. (27:06) Like, first of all, I guess I should be clear an hour and twenty minutes into this. (27:10) I don't believe that the podcast is a cult.
Jenny Smith (27:13) No. (27:13) I just don't either. (27:14) Know you don't. (27:15) It's joking. (27:16) Yes.
Scott Benner (27:16) But there's a there is a line. (27:18) Like, that's what I was kind of alluding to earlier. (27:20) Like, there's a line where you can be helping people, but if you push it the wrong way, it turns into something like this.
Jenny Smith (27:25) Right.
Scott Benner (27:26) I've just very steadfastly believe in what it's doing. (27:29) I'm I am genuinely a decent person. (27:31) I just want you guys to be happier and healthier. (27:33) And, you know, I I guess lucky enough that the podcast makes money, I don't need to, like, look for other ways to do it. (27:40) I also am not like a I'm not like a I don't want I don't want everything.
Scott Benner (27:45) You know what I mean? (27:46) Like, it's not like I looked up and I and said, well, this is this is successful. (27:49) I wonder how I could make more. (27:51) I just go, this is successful. (27:52) This is nice.
Scott Benner (27:53) Like, like, I'm not looking for it to make, you know, millions of dollars a year or be this multi, like I just I like that it helps people. (28:01) I think it's cool. (28:02) And Yeah. (28:02) You know, and I and when somebody's been helped by it, like, by the community or I didn't do this on purpose, but the truth is it's it's more it's more than a podcast. (28:11) It really is actually a community.
Scott Benner (28:12) It's a community that has a podcast. (28:14) It has a it has a Facebook component to it. (28:17) It has people out in the real world talking about it, like.
Jenny Smith (28:19) Right.
Scott Benner (28:20) It's not a thing I set up on purpose. (28:22) You you know? (28:23) Like, I didn't do this on purpose. (28:24) And Yeah. (28:25) But when I hear people like, I see it sometimes.
Scott Benner (28:28) Like, sometimes somebody's, like, puts up a post somewhere and they're just like, oh my god. (28:32) I was just diagnosed as an adult and I don't know what to do and blah blah blah. (28:35) And there's ten, fifteen, 20 people responding back, oh, I'm praying for you or, you know, like, I hope you find your way or blah blah. (28:43) And so some person just jumps in and goes, yo, just listen to this podcast. (28:46) It's gonna help you.
Scott Benner (28:48) Like, right? (28:48) I think, wow. (28:49) Yeah. (28:49) It helped that person so much that when they saw somebody else struggling, they thought they would suggest it. (28:54) And and right on if everybody doesn't like it, like, that's, you know, whatever.
Jenny Smith (28:59) Yeah.
Scott Benner (28:59) It's fine with me. (29:00) I think it wouldn't be a good podcast if everybody did like it. (29:03) That sounds Sure. (29:04) That sounds like pablum to me. (29:05) So Yeah.
Scott Benner (29:06) You know, like, okay. (29:07) Everybody doesn't love me or it or whatever. (29:10) It couldn't I I saw somebody left me a review one time and they were just like, I don't get it. (29:14) It's like, I was like, mom? (29:17) Yeah.
Scott Benner (29:18) Like, who is this? (29:18) Like Yeah. (29:19) You know. (29:19) My point, I guess, is that there is a fine line between a bunch of people supporting each other, doing a nice thing, and it's turning into this thing you've been describing. (29:31) Like, it could go the other way.
Scott Benner (29:32) I mean, I guess if you ever see me, like, pairing people up, you probably should call me out. (29:37) I know. (29:38) I'd like to see a nice redhead with a Korean man, and, I want one of you to be Jewish. (29:44) And then, like yeah. (29:46) Like, I don't know.
Scott Benner (29:47) Like, that's crazy, by the way.
Jenny Smith (29:48) There's I mean, that's why a lot so a lot of sort of the more, modern, like, cult scholars have been talking about coercive control versus just say like, labeling something occult is and always has been very
Scott Benner (30:07) Haphazard? (30:07) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (30:08) Yeah. (30:09) And the definition of it is, very fluid, and it's not, it's not very useful actually in describing groups. (30:17) What's more helpful is actually to to describe behaviors. (30:21) So looking at the behaviors of coercive control and and and what happens in a group. (30:28) So if you look at, scholars like, Steve Hasson or Yanya Lalich, Robert Lifton, these are, like, big names in the cult scholar world.
Jenny Smith (30:39) They have different criteria for what makes a a, you know, a a system of coercive control or or a toxic cultic system that includes things like where your behavior, information, thought, and, environment is controlled. (30:57) That's the bite model by Steve Hasson. (30:59) And in order to be, like, a destructive cult, you have to have several of these things at once.
Scott Benner (31:04) Okay.
Jenny Smith (31:05) Right? (31:06) So, you know, people jokingly say, like, oh, Taylor Swift, the Swifties are a cult. (31:12) Right? (31:12) And in some ways, like, yeah. (31:14) There's there's there's some aspects of cultiness to it, but it doesn't fit all of these criteria to necessarily make it a destructive cult Yeah.
Jenny Smith (31:25) In the way that we think about, the cults that, really practice coercive control and and, are really the ones that you have to look out for.
Scott Benner (31:34) Just because if you make fun of her online, some you know, a a half a million people are gonna come after you doesn't make it a cult. (31:40) It just
Jenny Smith (31:40) Right. (31:41) Right. (31:41) Right.
Scott Benner (31:41) There's other factors. (31:43) It's part of it could be part of it if he if they had all the
Jenny Smith (31:46) factors. (31:46) Right.
Scott Benner (31:47) Well, I even see with the Mooney thing, with the membership going down, it's not important because the other stuff I've been seeing while you're talking and I'm looking around is, like, they have I mean, they have, like, lobbying interests on the hill. (31:58) They're like Oh, yeah.
Jenny Smith (31:59) This is a business into politics. (32:01) Yeah. (32:01) Yeah.
Scott Benner (32:02) I see it now. (32:03) Okay. (32:03) This is business and money. (32:04) They don't need you guys anymore.
Jenny Smith (32:06) Oh, for sure.
Scott Benner (32:07) Yeah. (32:07) Your mom and dad did what they needed. (32:09) That part's over now.
Jenny Smith (32:11) Yeah. (32:11) Yeah. (32:12) Yeah. (32:12) The the first generation, the the members have always been disposable, you know, and and we're talking about it a lot as as our parents my generation, as our parents are aging. (32:23) We're like, what are we gonna do with our parents who don't have retirement funds or don't you know, they spent their whole lives in the church working for church businesses.
Jenny Smith (32:34) They don't have Social Security or or any way to, like, take care of themselves. (32:39) The church is not going to. (32:40) You know?
Scott Benner (32:40) How old are your parents?
Jenny Smith (32:42) They're in their seventies.
Scott Benner (32:43) Is there a party that doesn't want them to really cognitively understand all this? (32:47) Like, because, like Yes. (32:49) What value in their seventies does it does it Yeah. (32:52) Bring to, like, realize you waste your life on something?
Jenny Smith (32:55) Absolutely. (32:56) Yeah. (32:56) Yeah. (32:57) No. (32:57) I've for sure thought about that a lot.
Jenny Smith (32:59) And and I've, yeah, thought I don't necessary I don't know if it's worth it to or if I or if I even want them to have to go through that process of, yeah, really reckoning with that.
Scott Benner (33:17) Yeah. (33:18) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (33:18) Because it's not easy. (33:19) It's it's really, really hard. (33:21) It's really emotionally and psychologically devastating.
Scott Benner (33:26) My mom hit a certain age, and I stopped talking to her about, like, social stuff or things that I thought she was a little misguided on or didn't understand because I was just like, I don't know what the point is. (33:36) Like, right now, I'm just gonna tell her she's been wrong her whole life. (33:38) Like, what value is that for her?
Jenny Smith (33:40) Yeah. (33:41) You know? (33:41) Yeah.
Scott Benner (33:41) So yeah. (33:42) I mean, that that makes sense to me. (33:44) You have a interesting difficult life.
Jenny Smith (33:46) Yeah. (33:47) Thank you.
Scott Benner (33:48) I mean, listen. (33:48) Just being honest, it's no. (33:50) It doesn't sound like a cakewalk. (33:51) You know what I'm saying?
Jenny Smith (33:52) For sure. (33:52) Yeah.
Scott Benner (33:53) Yeah. (33:53) Yeah. (33:53) I mean, also, people who are just mad at their mom for, like, not letting them wear a certain palm dress or or get a car, like, you guys should be just ashamed. (34:01) Like, listen to Laurel. (34:02) I mean, my goodness.
Scott Benner (34:04) What is it you're complaining about? (34:05) I'm gonna immediately go to Arden and let her know that anything she's complaining about, she should just shut the fuck up. (34:10) Because I mean, they no kidding. (34:14) That's Yeah. (34:15) And and look how random it is too.
Scott Benner (34:17) I know this is probably not the conversation direction we've been going into, but you're just randomly born into this. (34:23) You could have randomly not been born into this.
Jenny Smith (34:26) For sure.
Scott Benner (34:26) You know? (34:27) Like and so when when you're out there judging people for anything, anything at all, just remember, it's just that they didn't choose it. (34:35) You you know? (34:36) And and when you're growing up in it, you don't know to say, hey. (34:39) This all seems weird to me, or maybe we shouldn't be talking about people like this or treating people this way or thinking like this.
Scott Benner (34:45) Like, it's then you're all in.
Jenny Smith (34:48) Right.
Scott Benner (34:48) You know, you went over it, like, briefly, but then the, you know, cognitive dissonance pops in and, you know, like, all the different psycho I don't even know the right words. (34:58) Right? (34:58) Like, the psychology the right psychology. (35:00) So what is the word I'm looking for? (35:02) Psycho psych psychopathy?
Scott Benner (35:05) Jesus. (35:05) I probably could've
Jenny Smith (35:06) looked at that. (35:06) Psychological?
Scott Benner (35:07) I don't know. (35:08) Had I gone to college, that would've come out much smoother. (35:10) I just wanna know. (35:11) Yeah. (35:11) But but all the all the different implications, right, that that come with it, you're not you're not doing any all the crazy you're doing, you're not doing on purpose.
Scott Benner (35:20) All the crazy I'm doing, I'm not doing on purpose.
Jenny Smith (35:23) Yeah.
Scott Benner (35:23) Like, right, like, joking through your your story. (35:26) Like Yeah. (35:27) This is not how most people would talk to you about this. (35:29) Something's wrong with me. (35:30) I don't know what it is.
Scott Benner (35:32) You you know what
Jenny Smith (35:32) I mean? (35:32) Listen. (35:33) You would fit right in with our kid. (35:34) We all have very dark sense of humor. (35:36) That's I imagine.
Jenny Smith (35:37) Of what you get with the trauma is is the
Scott Benner (35:41) Well, you're no kidding. (35:42) Yeah. (35:42) Like, right. (35:43) I'll tell you, like, for me personally, you're being kicked under a coffee table. (35:46) Like, that ain't the time to start taking stuff seriously.
Scott Benner (35:48) You'll you'll lose your mind pretty quick.
Jenny Smith (35:50) For sure.
Scott Benner (35:50) Yeah. (35:52) But I mean, like, other things too. (35:53) Like, whatever, like, whatever you hold dearest is probably, you know, like, if you think you're out there saving the world for some reason or you have,
Jenny Smith (36:01) like Mhmm.
Scott Benner (36:02) You look at politics and you say to yourself, like, we have to do something about it. (36:05) Like, I agree with you, but what are you gonna do about it? (36:07) Like, I mean, like
Jenny Smith (36:08) Right.
Scott Benner (36:09) And I think the world has maybe the Internet has put us in a position where people do have a feeling of, like, I can really impact this. (36:18) And Right. (36:18) Some of you will, but most of you won't. (36:21) Like, you know what I mean? (36:22) Like, it's not everybody whose thing gets amplified to the point where it could actually help, and then you have to make a decision.
Scott Benner (36:28) Like, am I making myself crazy or am I actually saving somebody? (36:32) And you talked about that earlier too. (36:34) Like, at some point, you gotta I I think a lot of people have to choose themselves because you're Yeah. (36:39) You're you're involved in an uphill battle that you really can't the people listening don't know that, like, you know, the thing I talked to Laurel about before we started recording to try to help her feel calm is that she has a really nice microphone. (36:51) I said, why do you have a really nice microphone?
Scott Benner (36:53) She said, oh, I I have a podcast. (36:55) And we talked about it a little bit. (36:57) Actually, it's funny, Laura. (36:58) You don't know this. (36:59) You said, like, you know, the kids I grew up within the cult, like, we all have this in I actually thought you were talking about a Jane Austen cult for a second.
Scott Benner (37:09) And then I pulled up your notes, I was like, oh, no. (37:12) This is the lady who grew up in an actual cult. (37:14) I was like, oh, I thought you were talking about, like, you know, all my Jane Austen cultists that would I was
Jenny Smith (37:21) So yes. (37:22) Yes. (37:22) The the the name of my podcast is Jane Austen culture night, which is play Play
Scott Benner (37:28) on words. (37:29) Yeah. (37:29) For sure. (37:30) A
Jenny Smith (37:30) play on words because yeah. (37:32) Because we both grew up in the cult together, and we're reading Jane Austen. (37:35) And also culture night was the thing that we used to do in the cult. (37:39) It was like a program that we used to run-in college as, like, a way to get people in the door.
Scott Benner (37:45) Indoctrinate more people. (37:46) You were in charge of going out and catching people, like, honey trapping them somehow? (37:50) Or
Jenny Smith (37:51) Not honey trapping. (37:53) Oh my god.
Scott Benner (37:53) I didn't mean it like that, obviously.
Jenny Smith (37:56) You would throw, like, an event, like, a cultural event. (37:58) Say, like, oh, it's Japanese culture night. (38:01) And so then you would invite people to come, like, eat sushi and, have some sort of, like, culture presentation and love bomb everybody and, like, be really nice and meet everyone and then be like, oh, come to this, lecture, you know, the next day where you actually talk more about it's it's like there's always, you know, a a gateway. (38:23) There's like a
Scott Benner (38:23) Did you know you were hunting when you did that?
Jenny Smith (38:26) I mean, yes. (38:28) I mean, for sure, our, the the goal is to bring new people in. (38:33) But you think about it as, like, oh, these people need to hear the truth, and we want to bring them in so that they you know, you think you're doing a good thing. (38:41) Right? (38:41) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (38:43) Yeah.
Scott Benner (38:44) Awesome. (38:44) Well, the world is a disaster. (38:47) Everyone, good luck. (38:48) That's it. (38:49) We're all But it's five minutes away from a Netflix movie where we all die at the end.
Scott Benner (38:53) I just wanna say
Jenny Smith (38:53) You know what? (38:54) Like, no matter no matter how, ingrained things are, no matter, like, how you know, I was born into this thing and indoctrinated. (39:04) And I still was able to, like, climb out of it. (39:07) Like, it's never too late.
Scott Benner (39:08) That's incredibly, impressive, honestly.
Jenny Smith (39:12) Thank you. (39:12) Yeah. (39:13) And it and it's not easy, but it's possible, and there's a community of people. (39:18) There's actually a huge community of not just of, you know, ex Moonies, but of so many other, cults and and so many other people people talking about this kind of stuff that you can kind of be a part of this community. (39:35) So, you know, when you leave something like this, you think you're losing, and you are losing some a part of community, but there are other communities that you can be a part of and really help you get through it.
Scott Benner (39:48) You're not the first person that's been on that's been in the cult. (39:50) You know that?
Jenny Smith (39:51) Oh, yeah?
Scott Benner (39:52) Yeah. (39:52) Now there's a another there's a girl that came on to talk about I mean, hers was more, like, classic church based. (40:00) It was I don't remember which genre of church it was.
Jenny Smith (40:02) Like, Christian.
Scott Benner (40:03) I don't yeah. (40:04) One of them.
Jenny Smith (40:04) Something. (40:05) Yeah.
Scott Benner (40:05) Yeah. (40:05) And, I mean, she was, like, really locked into a a bad deal too. (40:10) You know?
Jenny Smith (40:10) Sure. (40:11) Yeah. (40:12) There's tons of them. (40:12) There it's and there's new stuff popping up all the time now. (40:17) You know, cults always thrive during times of, like, social unrest and
Scott Benner (40:23) People needing to feel like they're they belong somewhere.
Jenny Smith (40:28) Yeah. (40:28) Yeah. (40:29) People are scared. (40:30) People are lost. (40:32) People are unsure, and, cults offer certainty and community a social safety net that, frankly, our government and society doesn't really do a great job at providing.
Scott Benner (40:46) Yeah. (40:46) You know, it's funny. (40:47) It made me look here. (40:49) Obviously, the definition of cult is ranging. (40:52) Right?
Scott Benner (40:52) But Yeah. (40:53) On the lower end, there are as many as 3,000 cults in, you know, and as many as 10,000. (41:02) Yeah. (41:03) Depending on, like, how you break it down, how you think about it. (41:05) Like, are you talking about, like, local groups that are on, you know, unreported to Yeah.
Scott Benner (41:09) To there are ten, twenty people in it, but would fit the criteria if you looked at them up to bigger ones. (41:15) Like, that's a Yeah. (41:15) A lot. (41:16) You know?
Jenny Smith (41:17) It's a lot. (41:17) Yeah. (41:18) Yeah. (41:18) I know.
Scott Benner (41:19) Do you have trouble trusting people, and does that impact your son's care at all?
Jenny Smith (41:24) I do. (41:27) I don't think it impacts my care. (41:29) I I'm pretty well, let me think about that. (41:35) I do have trouble trusting people. (41:37) That's I I've gotten better with it.
Jenny Smith (41:39) Mhmm. (41:40) In general, that's usually just more about me and, like, how I show up places and and sort of getting to know people and and the idea of, like, well, how much of this person do I wanna share my history with, or do I wanna just pretend to be, like, a normal person who grew up in a normal way? (41:59) You know what I mean? (42:00) Yeah. (42:00) But, yeah, I think, I can it's definitely I I, how do I put this?
Jenny Smith (42:14) In terms of, like, my son, I definitely get into sort of, like, these information, like, spirals or, where I I I want to know the truth. (42:28) Right? (42:28) I I'm very invested in that because I've been sold a a bag of lies Yeah. (42:34) Before. (42:36) So I'm like, I want to know what the truth is.
Jenny Smith (42:40) I want to know what the the science is. (42:42) I want to know what the right thing is. (42:45) And so it's very easy for me to to go down rabbit holes and and then sort of get overwhelmed
Scott Benner (42:51) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (42:51) With all of the information that's out there. (42:54) And, that's definitely something that happened to me in those first three months after the diagnosis, when I was just trying to learn all of the things. (43:04) I was intense. (43:06) I was reading all of the books. (43:07) I was just, like, overloading myself with information to the point that I, you know, get paralyzed and then can't do anything.
Jenny Smith (43:15) So it's it's not helpful Interesting. (43:17) In that sense.
Scott Benner (43:17) Interesting you said that because I've felt very little pushback from you the entire time we're talking. (43:24) Mhmm. (43:24) But when I went over where the overlaps might be with growth and thyroid Yeah. (43:30) I don't remember exactly how you put it. (43:32) But, like, there was a short sentence where you were thanking me for the information, but it felt it was it felt standoffish, which it felt it felt unlike the rest of the conversation with you.
Scott Benner (43:41) Almost like you were saying, like, I appreciate you bringing that up to me, but I can't take you at your word. (43:47) Right. (43:47) And and I and I was I it it real it's so crazy you just said that because I actually that rubbed up it rubbed up on me. (43:54) I was like, oh, I don't think she cares about this. (43:57) Like, that's how I thought about it at first.
Scott Benner (43:58) Like, maybe she doesn't believe me about this or something like that. (44:00) Maybe I'm reading into it or or not, but, man, I don't think I I don't know if I am or not. (44:05) So
Jenny Smith (44:06) I think yeah. (44:07) No. (44:08) That's interesting. (44:09) More careful. (44:10) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (44:11) I am gonna be more careful, and I'm also I'm also gonna be more careful with my son than I am with me. (44:16) Like, with me, I feel I can share parts of my story. (44:21) I'm, like, very open about it, but the things that I share about my children, I'm very careful about. (44:28) Like, I'm just I don't wanna infringe on their privacy
Scott Benner (44:32) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (44:32) In certain ways, including, like, sharing, too much of their medical information as well. (44:40) Sure. (44:40) So
Scott Benner (44:42) Just trying
Jenny Smith (44:42) to say I mean, I know I'm on this podcast, so that's a little bit You're like But
Scott Benner (44:48) I don't share stuff about my kids. (44:49) Now my son, he's this old yet. (44:50) Type one diabetes happened two years ago. (44:52) Now let me tell you about the no. (44:53) I understand.
Scott Benner (44:54) Like, but also, I don't know who you are, and nobody knows who you are, really. (44:57) Like, that's kind of the great thing about all this is, like, no one knows who you are. (45:00) And Yeah. (45:01) But and listen. (45:02) I I might be overblowing it a little bit, and I don't think it was anything horrible.
Scott Benner (45:06) I don't think in your mind, you were like, shut up, dummy. (45:08) I'm not listening to you. (45:09) And by the way, I think everybody should, me and everybody else, you should you should take everything with a grain of salt. (45:15) Like, just forget. (45:15) Right.
Scott Benner (45:16) Don't not just me, but definitely me and other people too.
Jenny Smith (45:19) Like Right.
Scott Benner (45:19) Do your own research. (45:21) An idea and go see if you can shake it out a little bit. (45:24) Figure out if it's for you. (45:25) That's all I I mean, I think it's implied at 2025. (45:30) Like, I think that's implied at this point.
Scott Benner (45:32) Know what I mean? (45:33) Like, there's, microphones are a couple $100. (45:35) You know what I'm saying? (45:36) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (45:37) Well, yeah. (45:37) I mean, and that's, I mean, when you brought those things up, that is exactly how I felt. (45:41) I was like, oh, okay. (45:42) Yeah. (45:42) Those are interesting things.
Jenny Smith (45:44) I will keep them in mind. (45:45) I will talk to the doctor about it. (45:47) I will look them up online. (45:48) I will do my own research.
Scott Benner (45:50) Gonna look more into that. (45:51) You should, by the way. (45:52) That's very reasonable.
Jenny Smith (45:53) Yeah. (45:54) But but I was like, okay. (45:55) That sounds good. (45:57) I don't know that there's much more but, yeah, I didn't feel like there was much more to talk.
Scott Benner (46:04) You were not aggressive about it or anything like that. (46:06) I'm just telling you that I'm telling you that there was something about the sentence. (46:10) It felt Yeah. (46:11) A tiny bit curt, and I and it told me that we were done talking about it now.
Jenny Smith (46:16) Yeah.
Scott Benner (46:16) Yeah. (46:16) That was all. (46:17) Like, so anyway, and I'm very much in my call intuitive, obviously. (46:20) As as as a as a good cult leader would need to be.
Jenny Smith (46:23) Yeah. (46:24) And I and I'm very good about, giving subtle clues to when I don't wanna talk about something to people.
Scott Benner (46:29) Listen. (46:30) I I felt it right away. (46:31) I was like, oh, she's done with this.
Jenny Smith (46:33) I actually this has been great. (46:34) I actually do have to go.
Scott Benner (46:35) I get a job. (46:36) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (46:37) I I have a therapy.
Scott Benner (46:39) Oh, you're really on your way to therapy?
Jenny Smith (46:41) I am.
Scott Benner (46:42) Okay. (46:43) Before you go, just because we know you're just gonna run off or anything. (46:45) Like, you're a person who's been to a lot of therapy. (46:48) Yes. (46:49) How valuable was this conversation for you?
Jenny Smith (46:51) This conversation?
Scott Benner (46:52) Yeah. (46:52) Like, do you feel, like, therapist afterwards? (46:55) Like, not that I'm trying to do that to you, but do you have the same feeling of, like do you feel like you've unburdened yourself, or do you have any good feelings when it's over, or no?
Jenny Smith (47:02) Well, no. (47:04) I mean, therapy is very different than or at least my therapy is very different than this. (47:10) You know, my therapist cares less about sort of what has happened, and it's more about my feelings around it and my, like, understanding
Scott Benner (47:21) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (47:22) The emotions or the or the triggers and and those things. (47:25) And it's usually much more me talking about things and then and my therapist sort of asking questions here and there. (47:33) But Probably you can touch on that. (47:34) She's heard a lot of my story in the beginning. (47:38) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (47:39) And, we've been together for several years. (47:41) So at this point, yeah, it's a it's it's
Scott Benner (47:44) It's an ongoing process.
Jenny Smith (47:45) It's an ongoing process. (47:46) Yeah. (47:47) Good for you. (47:47) Yeah.
Scott Benner (47:47) I think that's awesome. (47:48) I was just wondering if, like, you felt, like, better or worse after this conversation. (47:52) But I bring up a lot of for you and you don't feel good now, or are you
Jenny Smith (47:58) No. (47:58) No. (47:59) I I I sort of feel like I'm in sort of this energized place. (48:04) So when I start talking about this sort of stuff, I I kind of get into this activated place where I'm like, oh, there's this and this and this because there's just so much.
Scott Benner (48:11) So much to say.
Jenny Smith (48:13) There's so much to say. (48:14) Yeah. (48:15) But, no, I don't I don't feel bad.
Scott Benner (48:18) Good. (48:18) Good. (48:19) I'm glad. (48:19) I didn't want you to feel badly after it was over. (48:21) Guess it's
Jenny Smith (48:21) No. (48:21) No. (48:22) Not at all. (48:22) Not at all.
Scott Benner (48:23) Awesome. (48:23) Awesome. (48:24) Well, listen. (48:24) I can't thank you enough for doing this. (48:26) I'll let you go.
Jenny Smith (48:27) I'm so glad that we did it. (48:29) Thank you.
Scott Benner (48:29) Okay. (48:29) Great. (48:30) Hold on one second. (48:31) I'll just give you the last. (48:37) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod five.
Scott Benner (48:42) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free what I just say, a free Omnipod five starter kit. (48:52) Free? (48:53) Get out of here. (48:54) Go click on that link. (48:55) Omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (48:58) Check it out. (48:58) Terms and conditions apply. (49:00) Eligibility may vary. (49:01) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (49:06) Links in the show notes.
Scott Benner (49:08) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com. (49:11) Today's episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g seven, and the Dexcom g seven warms up in just thirty minutes. (49:20) Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox. (49:26) Okay. (49:26) Well, here we are at the end of the episode.
Scott Benner (49:28) You're still with me? (49:29) Thank you. (49:29) I really do appreciate that. (49:31) What else could you do for me? (49:33) Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review?
Scott Benner (49:37) Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram, TikTok. (49:46) Oh, gosh. (49:47) Here's one. (49:47) Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. (49:54) You don't wanna miss.
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#1734 Defining Diabetes: Priming
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
Scott and Jenny define "Priming" in this Defining Diabetes episode. Learn why filling pump tubing and cannulas is essential to avoid air gaps, and how the process differs by device.
+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner (0:0) Welcome back, friends. (0:01) You are listening to the Juice Box podcast. (0:15) Managing diabetes is difficult, but trying to do it when you don't understand the lingo, that's almost impossible. (0:21) The defining diabetes series began in 2019, and today we're adding to it. (0:26) Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu, click on defining diabetes, and you'll see a complete list of all the terms that we've defined so far.
Scott Benner (0:38) If you're living with type one diabetes, the After Dark collection from the Juice Box podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. (0:48) From drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction, and so much more. (0:55) Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu and click on after dark. (0:59) There, you'll see a full list of all of the after dark episodes. (1:05) While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise.
Scott Benner (1:14) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. (1:29) I wish I could tell everybody what we're laughing at as we start this episode of defining diabetes, but I can't. (1:33) That's between Jenny and I. (1:35) I think this one's gonna be a short one. (1:37) I just need to define priming.
Scott Benner (1:40) I realized this never made it on the list because Arden has an Omnipod and has her whole time. (1:46) And I just watched somebody the other day on who was I watching? (1:50) Oh, I had, you don't know TikTok, but I had a woman named Marley.
Jenny Smith (1:55) I know it. (1:55) I just don't I don't TikTok. (1:57) Yeah. (1:57) I don't TikTok. (1:58) I think
Scott Benner (1:58) it's a pretty good indication that you're not on TikTok. (2:00) Marley is the mom of this little boy named Bane who was diagnosed really young. (2:05) Right?
Jenny Smith (2:05) Okay.
Scott Benner (2:07) I had her on the podcast recently. (2:08) So I was making a TikTok to, you know, kinda connect with her so people could tell she was on. (2:14) And I looked through some of her videos, and there she was priming tubing.
Jenny Smith (2:18) Uh-huh.
Scott Benner (2:19) And, like, holding it up, stripping. (2:21) I think it was her. (2:21) By way, if it wasn't her, I'm sorry. (2:22) It was somebody. (2:23) She's holding it up.
Scott Benner (2:24) It's stripping out. (2:25) She's trying to assess if it's working. (2:27) Cannulas, you know, little stickers with, like, you know, cannulas on them. (2:31) And I went, I don't know anything about this stuff.
Jenny Smith (2:34) Mhmm. (2:35) Because you've never used I she Arden's only ever been Omnipod and has never used anything else.
Scott Benner (2:41) Never. (2:41) I was like, I don't understand. (2:43) I mean, I understand what you're doing. (2:44) I'm not an idiot, but, like, I, hands on, don't know what it is. (2:47) So Right.
Scott Benner (2:48) So priming defined is?
Jenny Smith (2:51) So priming defined is and you talk about tubing. (2:54) Right? (2:54) There is in tubed pumps. (2:57) It's a little bit different in Omnipod. (2:59) I can describe the difference.
Jenny Smith (3:00) But in tubed pumps, you have to actually fill the tubing to begin with, in which case at the end of the tubing is your cannula, which is what goes under the skin to deliver the insulin. (3:11) Right? (3:11) So you're filling the tubing first, watching for drip drips to come out of the end of the cannula.
Scott Benner (3:19) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (3:19) But in all except steel needle cannula, the normal plastic flexible cannulas, once they are inserted and you remove the insertion device, a needle gets pulled out. (3:33) Okay. (3:34) That's what delivered the cannula under the skin. (3:36) Mhmm. (3:37) So what does that mean?
Jenny Smith (3:38) Yes. (3:39) You saw drips coming out, when you remove that needle can nail that needle from the interior of the cannula, what's now in the cannula? (3:48) Blood.
Scott Benner (3:49) Oh, I was gonna say blood, but I don't know why. (3:51) But air. (3:51) Okay. (3:51) Oh,
Jenny Smith (3:52) okay. (3:52) Underneath. (3:53) Right?
Scott Benner (3:53) Okay. (3:53) And then so you have to prime it out.
Jenny Smith (3:55) Push insulin through. (3:57) Prime every time you put that under your skin then, there is a priming key on your pump. (4:03) It it encourages you. (4:05) This is priming time. (4:06) Each cannula length has a specific priming dose that you have to put in.
Jenny Smith (4:12) Oh. (4:12) So based on three millimeter, nine millimeter, six millimeter kind of cannula, there's a certain dose of insulin that you have to prime that cannula that's now sitting under your skin, but it is it's hollow. (4:24) It's empty.
Scott Benner (4:25) Okay.
Jenny Smith (4:25) If you don't prime, you end up missing that amount of insulin until you've delivered enough bolus or basal has dripped in enough to fill the space, which can create, as you like to call it, kind of a black hole into the future of insulin. (4:40) Right?
Scott Benner (4:41) Right.
Jenny Smith (4:41) There's prime the cannula, fill it with insulin so that as the basal starts dripping, it's absolutely dripping underneath the skin.
Scott Benner (4:48) There's no gap.
Jenny Smith (4:49) There's no gap.
Scott Benner (4:50) When I have to shut the water off at my house to fix something in the toilet, and then I turn it back on, and you have to open up the faucet to let the air out again. (4:57) This is the idea.
Jenny Smith (4:58) Similar idea. (5:00) Exactly. (5:00) Yeah. (5:01) And as I said before, you know, even tubed pumps, some users, myself included, I could never use the the little flexible cannulas when I was using a tubed pump.
Scott Benner (5:11) Okay.
Jenny Smith (5:11) I always use the steel needle cannulas. (5:14) The steel needle cannula is kind of like a thumbtack. (5:17) It gets popped right underneath the skin, and you have primed the tubing. (5:20) Mhmm. (5:21) You've watched for the drips to ensure that it is coming out.
Jenny Smith (5:24) You pop that under your skin, but you don't pull the needle out.
Scott Benner (5:27) Right.
Jenny Smith (5:28) It's The cannula is the steel needle, and so there is no priming with a steel needle.
Scott Benner (5:33) There's no priming with a steel needle. (5:35) Okay.
Jenny Smith (5:36) Once you pop it under your skin, the cannula is the steel needle in which you've already watched the drips take place before you put it under your skin.
Scott Benner (5:44) So then in either scenario god. (5:46) I hope I get this right. (5:47) You fill the tubing
Jenny Smith (5:49) Yes.
Scott Benner (5:49) Then you prime the cannula once it's inserted. (5:54) You don't have to do that with the steel. (5:57) Correct. (5:57) But you do have to fill the tubing with the seal.
Jenny Smith (6:00) But you still have to fill the tubing. (6:01) Yeah. (6:01) Absolutely. (6:02) And you always fill the tubing without the cannula under your skin. (6:06) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (6:06) You never wanna fill tubing with it under your skin. (6:09) Right? (6:10) Now Omnipod, you're right in terms of it doesn't technically do priming yourself, but it does it itself. (6:17) It's an automatic process.
Scott Benner (6:19) That's the clicking.
Jenny Smith (6:21) It is. (6:21) So once you when you have it laid down and you filled it with insulin. (6:24) Right?
Scott Benner (6:25) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (6:26) What it's actually doing there is it's pushing the the little, valve at the bottom of the car the cartridge inside the pod. (6:34) Right. (6:35) It's pushing it up to meet the back of the insulin amount that you filled it with. (6:39) Mhmm. (6:40) That's it's almost fill tubing if you think about it.
Jenny Smith (6:43) Yeah. (6:44) So it's getting rid of air in the cartridge. (6:45) But then once you put it on yourself and you hit deliver or insert cannula, right, I have to think of the words. (6:52) They use insert cannula. (6:54) It does that clicking.
Jenny Smith (6:55) And once it clicks, it has inserted the cannula under your skin. (7:01) The needle has been retracted. (7:02) You get the little pink square on the top of the pod to indicate that that's what happened.
Scott Benner (7:06) Right.
Jenny Smith (7:06) And that clicking is the actual fill and priming of the cannula.
Scott Benner (7:13) Okay. (7:13) So in my mind So
Jenny Smith (7:15) it does it all for you, which is why you have no clue how to do it.
Scott Benner (7:18) I mean, she's, like, dangling it up. (7:20) It's dripping. (7:20) I was like, I've never been through this in my life. (7:22) I could change an Omnipod. (7:24) I'm gonna I'm gonna say, if you put a vial in front of me, a closed pod, and a human arm, if you gave me those three things, I think that I could get a pod onto somebody and insert it in less than ninety seconds.
Scott Benner (7:38) I've done it so Absolutely. (7:40) So many times. (7:41) Like, you know, almost with my eyes closed.
Jenny Smith (7:43) Yeah.
Scott Benner (7:44) Yeah. (7:44) Yeah. (7:44) I mean, the priming takes the longest amount of time. (7:48) And there's a little so there's you put it in, it it primes. (7:51) Right?
Scott Benner (7:52) And it's like there's a little clicking with that. (7:53) Do you do the tap tap at the end of the priming to clear the oh, Jenny just looked at me like she doesn't know what I'm talking about. (8:00) So after the pod primes, you pop off the needle cap.
Jenny Smith (8:04) Yeah.
Scott Benner (8:04) I always pinch the pod at the back and then smack it in the center over my finger a couple of times to knock any loose insulin out of the window because it keeps
Jenny Smith (8:16) because it helps I
Scott Benner (8:18) You know what I mean?
Jenny Smith (8:19) Because the viewing window then doesn't look like it constantly is wet.
Scott Benner (8:22) Right. (8:22) And your skin doesn't like, because if there's too much in there, you can get, like, almost irritated from it as well. (8:27) Like, all that insulin is just laying in there, plus it's hard to see in the window. (8:30) I do that. (8:31) Or I realized I I think Arden does it only because she saw me do it.
Jenny Smith (8:35) Probably. (8:36) Yeah. (8:36) It's a habit now to do that. (8:38) Yeah. (8:38) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (8:38) Yeah. (8:39) Yeah. (8:39) No. (8:39) I don't do the tap tap. (8:40) Now every time I do it, I feel like it's supposed to be like, I've never in the twenty years no.
Jenny Smith (8:46) Is it twenty? (8:47) Twenty years. (8:47) Oh my gosh. (8:48) Really? (8:48) Twenty years that I've used Omnipod.
Scott Benner (8:50) Wow. (8:51) Were you right from the beginning with it?
Jenny Smith (8:53) I used Animus, and then Omnipod came out in 2005. (8:57) And once Omnipod was out, I had a friend who actually I was in the stage of deciding on a new pump.
Scott Benner (9:06) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (9:07) And at that time, I'd started doing triathlons, and I was kind of really to the point of irritation with having to disconnect all the time and whatever with the swimming part of doing triathlons.
Scott Benner (9:17) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (9:17) And she's like, just wait, Jenny. (9:19) She's like, there is this pump coming out that you won't have to do that. (9:22) There's no tubing. (9:23) It's waterproof. (9:24) Blah blah blah.
Jenny Smith (9:25) She got me connected with the clinical rep for the area where we were living. (9:29) And then as soon
Scott Benner (9:30) as it was out on the market, I it
Jenny Smith (9:32) was covered by my insurance, thankfully.
Scott Benner (9:34) So Wow. (9:35) That makes me knowing that timeline changes a little bit, even the story I have about Arden getting on a pump at first doesn't fit here. (9:43) But, yeah, because Arden we put her on a pump right before she went to kindergarten because it was in our head that we didn't want her to we didn't want a stranger to give her shots, actually. (9:53) Think that is exactly why why we did it. (9:55) Yeah.
Scott Benner (9:55) I don't even think we understood the how valuable the pump would be when we decided to get a pump. (10:01) It wasn't till we really started paying attention to it that we knew. (10:04) Okay. (10:04) Alright. (10:05) I'm sorry.
Scott Benner (10:05) This was great. (10:06) I really appreciate it. (10:07) Thanks so much. (10:07) Yes. (10:08) See you.
Scott Benner (10:14) Okay. (10:15) Well, here we are at the end of the episode. (10:17) You're still with me? (10:18) Thank you. (10:18) I really do appreciate that.
Scott Benner (10:20) What else could you do for me? (10:22) Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? (10:26) Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribe in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me or Instagram, TikTok. (10:35) Oh, gosh. (10:35) Here's one.
Scott Benner (10:36) Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. (10:42) You don't wanna miss please, do you not know about the private group? (10:46) You have to join the private group. (10:48) As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. (10:51) They're active talking about diabetes.
Scott Benner (10:54) Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now. (10:58) And I'm there all the time. (10:59) Tag me. (10:59) I'll say hi. (11:01) If you'd like to hear about diabetes management in easy to take in bits, check out the Small Sips.
Scott Benner (11:08) That's the series on the Juice Box podcast that listeners are talking about like it's a cheat code. (11:13) These are perfect little bursts of clarity, one person said. (11:16) I finally understood things I've heard a 100 times. (11:19) Short, simple, and somehow exactly what I needed. (11:22) People say small sips feels like someone pulling up a chair, sliding a cup across the table, and giving you one clean idea at a time.
Scott Benner (11:30) Nothing overwhelming, no fire hose of information, just steady helpful nudges that actually stick. (11:36) People listen in their car, on walks, or rather actually bolus ing anytime that they need a quick shot of perspective. (11:43) And the reviews, they all say the same thing. (11:46) Small sips makes diabetes make sense. (11:49) Search for the Juice Box podcast, small sips, wherever you get audio.
Scott Benner (11:54) If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. (12:00) Listen. (12:01) Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. (12:05) He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go, and stuff like that. (12:10) And it just I don't know, man.
Scott Benner (12:11) Like, I listen back, I'm like, why do I sound smarter? (12:14) And then I remember because I did one smart thing. (12:17) I hired Rob at wrongwayrecording.com.
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#1733 To The Moon And Back - Part 1
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
Born into the Unification Church, Laurel candidly discusses growing up in a cult, mass weddings, and why she eventually left to protect her children. This is Part 1 of 2.
+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner (0:00) Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Laurel (0:14) Hi. (0:14) I'm Laurel. (0:15) My 14 year old son, was diagnosed with type one diabetes about a year and a half ago. (0:21) So we're still pretty new in the journey.
Scott Benner (0:24) If this is your first time listening to the Juice Box podcast and you'd like to hear more, download Apple Podcasts or Spotify, really any audio app at all. (0:33) Look for the Juice Box podcast and follow or subscribe. (0:36) We put out new content every day that you'll enjoy. (0:40) Wanna learn more about your diabetes management? (0:43) Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu and look for bold beginnings, the diabetes pro tip series, and much more.
Scott Benner (0:50) This podcast is full of collections and series of information that will help you to live better with insulin. (0:57) If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box podcast private Facebook group. (1:03) Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes. (1:06) But everybody is welcome. (1:07) Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me.
Scott Benner (1:12) If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. (1:21) Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:26) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. (1:30) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Omnipod five. (1:35) Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system that's been shown to significantly improve a one c and time and range for people with type one diabetes when they've switched from daily injections.
Scott Benner (1:46) Learn more and get started today at omnipod.com/juicebox. (1:50) At my link, you can get a free starter kit right now. (1:53) Terms and conditions apply. (1:54) Eligibility may vary. (1:56) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (2:01) The podcast is also sponsored today by US Med. (2:05) Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. (2:11) Get your supplies the same way we do from US Med.
Laurel (2:16) Okay. (2:16) Just introduce yourself. (2:18) Me to say, hi. (2:20) I'm Laurel.
Scott Benner (2:21) That's it. (2:21) You did it, Laurel. (2:22) That was awesome. (2:22) Thank
Laurel (2:23) you. (2:24) Perfect.
Scott Benner (2:25) Laurel, why am I talking to you today? (2:26) What do you have? (2:27) What do you have? (2:27) You have a thing? (2:28) Did something in your body attack something else?
Scott Benner (2:31) Do you have a kid who had a problem? (2:33) Why are we doing this?
Laurel (2:34) I I have a kid. (2:35) My my 14 year old son, was diagnosed with type one diabetes about a year and a half ago. (2:41) So we're still pretty new in the journey.
Scott Benner (2:44) Your 14 year old son. (2:45) Now the photo of you on this machine Yeah. (2:49) Makes me think that you got pregnant when you were seven. (2:51) Is that correct?
Laurel (2:53) Not quite. (2:54) I was 25.
Scott Benner (2:56) Wait. (2:56) No. (2:57) You're 39?
Laurel (2:58) I'm 42.
Scott Benner (3:00) Is that a recent photo?
Laurel (3:02) That's, it's about five or six years old. (3:05) It's it's an older photo.
Scott Benner (3:07) Fill it up.
Laurel (3:07) That that not that old.
Scott Benner (3:09) Oh my gosh. (3:10) Good for you.
Laurel (3:12) Thank you.
Scott Benner (3:12) Yeah. (3:13) You must be thrilled. (3:16) Right?
Laurel (3:16) Thanks. (3:17) I appreciate it. (3:17) Yeah.
Scott Benner (3:18) Do you do you not look in the mirror and just go, ugh, things are going my way?
Laurel (3:23) I mean, I I don't feel bad about myself in any way, but I definitely feel like when you're looking at yourself, you you notice all of the things. (3:32) I always have people say, like, oh, you you look so young. (3:35) Like, I thought you were in your twenties, and I'm like, like, I can see all my wrinkles and stuff, but it's fine. (3:40) If the woman in
Scott Benner (3:41) this photo brought me a lunch at a restaurant, I'd be like, let's tip her a little extra so she can get through grad school. (3:46) Like, that's that's how you listen. (3:48) Talk about the way you see yourself and being old. (3:51) May I Yeah. (3:52) Can we digress in the first two minutes?
Scott Benner (3:53) Let's do that. (3:54) Sure. (3:54) Also, for everybody listening, Laurel got a great story, so just hang on. (3:58) Okay? (4:00) I'm in the, the grocery yesterday, wandering about picking up a thing or two that I wanna be honest, Kelly made me go get.
Scott Benner (4:08) So but I don't mind because my day is kinda interesting. (4:11) Like, I can kinda go out for a little bit in the middle of the day sometimes and I like getting up and moving around. (4:16) So I'm out. (4:17) I'm walking around. (4:18) I think I'm coming from the vegetables headed over towards where the breads are.
Scott Benner (4:22) This lady is walking towards me. (4:26) I don't know how to put this exactly. (4:28) She looked oh god. (4:30) I am embarrassed. (4:31) She looked me up and down and then gave me the face.
Scott Benner (4:35) Do you know what I mean, Laurel? (4:36) Like Uh-huh. (4:37) Yeah. (4:37) Like, maybe if we ended up having sex in her car behind a dumpster behind the grocery store, that'd be a good way for her to spend her afternoon. (4:44) Now this is not a thing that happens to me a lot, but it happens once in a bit, so I know what it looks like.
Scott Benner (4:49) Here's the problem. (4:50) Yeah. (4:50) Well, Laurel, hold on. (4:53) No one get upset when I say this. (4:55) Okay?
Scott Benner (4:57) She was too old to look at me that way. (4:59) And it made me feel really bad about myself.
Laurel (5:03) Oh, no.
Scott Benner (5:07) I was like, what is happening right now? (5:10) Why does grandma want me to come with her? (5:13) And so so Arden first things first is I immediately text my family in a group chat. (5:19) I say, I've just been hit on by a woman so much older than me that I I really am just I feel sad for myself right now. (5:27) Because either I look her age to her Mhmm.
Scott Benner (5:31) Or I'm what passes for young and hot in her world. (5:35) And that's not true either. (5:37) I've got felt so Arden responded back. (5:39) She said, dad's got the raisins hitting on him, which I didn't know was a thing. (5:43) No.
Scott Benner (5:43) I think so. (5:44) Did you know that? (5:45) Did people do people call older people raisins?
Laurel (5:47) I knew what she meant. (5:48) Oh. (5:48) I haven't heard that, like, as a general term,
Scott Benner (5:51) but Maybe she made it up. (5:52) I have no idea. (5:54) And I thought, okay. (5:55) I'll I'll get by on this. (5:56) But, no, like, four hours later, I found myself on the phone talking with Isabelle about something for the Facebook group.
Scott Benner (6:01) And the last ten minutes of our conversation were me complaining about this older lady hitting on me in the grocery store.
Laurel (6:07) Oh my goodness.
Scott Benner (6:08) I felt I listen. (6:10) First of all, thank you. (6:11) Anybody who finds you attractive, I'm very appreciative of that, etcetera, so on. (6:15) Yeah. (6:15) But I looked at her and I thought, she's a lot older than I am.
Scott Benner (6:20) And it pushed into a part of the, like I don't know. (6:24) Like, part of me was like, hey. (6:25) Good for her. (6:25) You know what I mean? (6:26) And, like and the other part of me was like, oh god.
Scott Benner (6:29) This is the my life's over. (6:31) That's exactly how I felt.
Laurel (6:33) Listen. (6:33) Women have been out here being hit on by men forty years older than us for since the beginning of time.
Scott Benner (6:41) So I mean, like, so I was all for feminism. (6:43) I didn't realize this is what it meant, that I'm that I've gotta go outside and feel like, oh, why does this old lady wanna touch me? (6:52) And, like and but that's what it feels like. (6:54) Oh, gosh. (6:54) I didn't even think of it this way.
Laurel (6:56) There you go.
Scott Benner (6:57) Is this what happens when I say hi to a 30 year old girl? (7:00) They're like, no. (7:01) I'm not doing it with you, you old like, do you think even if I'm being nice.
Laurel (7:07) Being creepy about it.
Scott Benner (7:08) Listen. (7:09) I try not to I I don't imagine I'm being creepy. (7:11) But,
Laurel (7:11) like Right.
Scott Benner (7:12) But do you think, oh, maybe she wasn't being creep maybe she had gas. (7:16) Maybe that was the look on her face. (7:18) Or maybe maybe she was, like, looking at me and then, like, her brain was like, oh, I think our depends needs to be changed. (7:25) And, like and then it made her make a face and I mistook it for for lust. (7:29) Is that possible?
Laurel (7:30) Anything's possible.
Scott Benner (7:32) Okay. (7:34) Alright. (7:34) That's enough of me. (7:35) By the way, this is the last time I talk. (7:37) Wait till you guys hear what happened to Laurel.
Scott Benner (7:41) We'll get back to your kid with the diabetes later.
Laurel (7:43) Oh, really? (7:44) Okay. (7:44) Oh, yeah. (7:44) That's not the most interesting part of that's like the most normal part of the story.
Scott Benner (7:48) No kidding. (7:49) Let's like, I usually I'd I'd backload your story, but I love this too much. (7:52) So and sorry about your life. (7:54) But why don't you tell me how old you were when when what happened happened to you and walk me through it a little bit?
Laurel (8:03) Okay. (8:04) So I was actually born into a cult. (8:07) I my parents joined the Unification Church in the seventies. (8:12) Have you ever heard of us?
Scott Benner (8:13) And But I'm gonna find out all that.
Laurel (8:15) Known as the Moonies.
Scott Benner (8:17) Oh, my god. (8:18) Really?
Laurel (8:19) Yeah. (8:19) Yeah.
Scott Benner (8:20) Your parents, how old were they when you were born?
Laurel (8:22) I think my mom was, like, 30 in her early thirties. (8:28) But but my parents both joined in the seventies, like, in their twenties. (8:34) And then they were, you know, fundraising around the country, selling flowers and all kinds of things on the side of the road and living in vans. (8:44) And then then they were matched by reverend Moon, who was the leader, where he basically he's he's famous for the mass weddings for people who don't know.
Scott Benner (8:54) Sun Mang Moon. (8:56) Is that right?
Laurel (8:57) Sun Mang Moon.
Scott Benner (8:57) Yes. (8:57) Sun Man Moon. (8:58) Okay. (8:58) Go ahead. (8:59) Yeah.
Scott Benner (9:00) Yeah. (9:00) Yeah. (9:00) So
Laurel (9:01) and he would just basically, like, match people up. (9:05) My parents literally were in a giant ballroom, and he, like, pointed to my mom and then pointed to my dad and was like, you two. (9:15) And that was it. (9:16) And so then they were technically, like, engaged for about three years, and then they, you know, got married in a big mass wedding at Madison Square Garden in 1982. (9:29) And then I was born in 1983.
Scott Benner (9:32) So Do you think they played that music? (9:34) Hey. (9:37) Like, they all came out, like, you know, the basketball games? (9:40) Great.
Laurel (9:41) No. (9:42) I don't think so.
Scott Benner (9:43) Okay. (9:43) So let's see if you I'm gonna ask you a question. (9:45) We'll see if you have the answer to
Laurel (9:47) it. (9:47) Okay.
Scott Benner (9:47) What was wrong with your parents? (9:48) How did they end up in that situation?
Laurel (9:50) So my dad was he had gotten married, like, right out of high school. (9:58) He was really, really young. (9:59) He had had a kid. (10:00) So I have an older brother who's, like, eleven years older than me. (10:04) And and then they very quickly, like, got divorced.
Laurel (10:07) And so he was kind of, like, wandering and lost, and he was out hunting in Montana. (10:15) And then, you know, some you know, ended up meeting some people that, like, invited him to a thing and you know?
Scott Benner (10:23) Your half brother went with the mom? (10:26) Yeah. (10:26) We call him Lucky. (10:27) Right?
Laurel (10:28) Yeah. (10:29) Yes and no. (10:30) You know? (10:31) It it's yeah. (10:32) Different circumstances, but he, sure, did not grow up in in the cult.
Laurel (10:36) So
Scott Benner (10:36) Tell everybody. (10:38) Why are you comfortable calling it a cult?
Laurel (10:40) Sure. (10:40) Sure.
Scott Benner (10:40) Yeah.
Laurel (10:41) Yeah. (10:42) I mean, that wasn't always the case. (10:44) Obviously, growing up, it was it was really difficult even, like, hearing the word, I felt like was painful because it it was sort of this reminder of, like, how other people viewed us. (10:58) And, you know, as a kid, I didn't know that it was a cult. (11:02) It was just you know, you believe your parents.
Laurel (11:04) You believe everybody around you that tells you that this is normal and this is good and everybody else is wrong. (11:10) Okay. (11:11) So hearing that word was, like, you know, accusatory and and felt really bad.
Scott Benner (11:17) Mhmm.
Laurel (11:18) It took several years after I had really left and processed it to to to start using the word. (11:28) And and and and part of that was really, like, going through the process of deconstructing all of the things that I had grown up with and, like, learning about how cults work and learning about other types of coercive control and and things like that and and looking at sort of the different scholarly writings about it and stuff and and sort of understanding that.
Scott Benner (11:54) Accusations, like, ran the gamut with him. (11:56) Right? (11:56) Like, authoritarianism being Mhmm. (11:59) Brainwashing people, like, Yeah. (12:01) Taking money.
Scott Benner (12:02) Right? (12:02) There was, like, financial exploitation. (12:04) Yeah. (12:04) He ended up he landed in jail in
Laurel (12:07) In the eighties.
Scott Benner (12:08) In the eighties. (12:09) Yeah. (12:09) Okay. (12:09) For Yeah. (12:10) You know, for what?
Laurel (12:10) Tax evasion.
Scott Benner (12:11) Tax evasion. (12:12) Okay.
Laurel (12:12) And and then some sort of misappropriation of of funds and stuff. (12:16) I mean, my parents, along with all of the other, you know, first generation members, were fundraising on the streets. (12:23) And all of that money was going back to him, going back up to the top. (12:28) You know?
Scott Benner (12:28) He wasn't donating that to a higher, situation. (12:31) I don't imagine.
Laurel (12:32) No. (12:32) He was build he was, like, buying mansions and running businesses. (12:36) And also a lot of those businesses were, you know, employed, the church members. (12:41) They called it the I always called it the church growing up. (12:43) So if I say the church, the cult I use it interchangeably, but
Scott Benner (12:47) Sure.
Laurel (12:47) That's what that is.
Scott Benner (12:48) So tell me how old you were when you left, and then explain to me what it was like growing up there.
Laurel (12:56) Sure. (12:57) It's hard to pinpoint an exact time of when I left because it was it was a really some people have, like, a a really sort of drastic cutoff where they just say, like, no. (13:11) I'm done and leave. (13:12) For me, it was much more of, like, as I grew up and
Scott Benner (13:18) Kinda gradually?
Laurel (13:19) Little by, yeah, little by little. (13:21) It was like yeah. (13:23) It was like, you know, death by a thousand cuts, sort of like chipping away at at things. (13:28) But for sure, there was a major shift when my kids were born.
Scott Benner (13:32) Oh, wow. (13:33) Went that far. (13:34) Okay.
Laurel (13:34) Yeah. (13:34) I was actually married in the church as well. (13:37) Like, I my husband grew up in, the same, and and so we were married and had kids. (13:44) We're still, like, part of the community, but not kind of I guess, you would call it, like, if it it was, like, a cultural Catholic type of thing if you were you know, it was like, oh, we still hang out with the community, but we're not, like, super into all of the dogma and stuff. (14:00) But, yeah, when when my kids were born so I have an older son too, and my younger one's the one with type diabetes.
Laurel (14:06) But, yeah, when my kids were growing up, it really just switched of, oh, I don't wanna put my kids through the things that I went through. (14:15) I don't want them to grow up the same way that I did.
Scott Benner (14:18) What what would you say are some of the, I guess, lowlights of what you mean by that, how you grew up? (14:25) I used to hate ordering my daughter's diabetes supplies. (14:29) I never had a good experience, and it was frustrating. (14:33) But it hasn't been that way for a while, actually, for about three years now because that's how long we've been using US Med. (14:40) US Med dot com slash juice box or call (888) 721-1514.
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Laurel (16:42) I grew up I went to public school, which is there's a there's a huge range of of people. (16:49) Some kids were you know, did homeschooling and other there's a huge gamut, but I I went to public school.
Scott Benner (16:56) Mhmm.
Laurel (16:56) And there was nobody else in my town. (16:58) My parents we we lived in, like, a really small town, rural area, and there were no other, like, church families around. (17:05) So I had this really weird experience of sort of, like, having this split personality of where I was in in school, I had to, like I felt like I had to, like, lie about all of the church stuff and, like, pretend to be and fit in there. (17:23) And then when I would go to church events, I would have to, like, pretend to be what they needed to be and and not associate with sort of the the way that I was with my friends there. (17:38) And so, like, I had this really sort of split sense of identity where I didn't feel safe in either place.
Scott Benner (17:46) Right.
Laurel (17:46) And then, you know, there were also you know, as I got older too, the demands of the cult itself. (17:55) You know, I grew up with in really strict purity culture, which a lot of other people in sort of fundamentalist religions grew up with. (18:05) I wasn't, allowed to date at all. (18:09) I wasn't, you know, allowed to have premarital sex, any of that. (18:12) There was also a really toxic sort of relationship with sort of, like, mind and body stuff.
Laurel (18:21) Part of the theology was, like, that you it's mind over body. (18:27) Right? (18:28) So your body is evil, and you should be able to, like, suppress your body's needs and stuff. (18:37) And so a lot of like, I went to camp as a kid. (18:39) They they used to do summer camps.
Laurel (18:41) We would have to do things like wake up at 06:00 in the morning and go do exercises before breakfast. (18:49) And they would have us do these exercises where we had to do everything exactly the same, like a military type of drill. (18:55) Mhmm. (18:56) And if anybody messed up, we'd have to start all over again until we got it right. (19:00) And this was all before breakfast.
Laurel (19:03) Like, we weren't allowed to have breakfast
Scott Benner (19:04) Yeah.
Laurel (19:04) Until we got these drills right. (19:06) You know?
Scott Benner (19:07) Your parents are all in the whole time, or did you ever feel them waning, or were they
Laurel (19:14) So my parents are interesting. (19:15) They they've always been all in on, like, believing in the theology and stuff and and in reverend Moon and all of that. (19:31) But they haven't always agreed with sort of how things are run or, like, what's happening with the organization. (19:37) And because my parents live because we grew up, like, a little bit outside of the central area where Moon was living at the time and where there was a lot of, members, they could sort of, like, get away with stuff without anybody really caring. (19:55) So there there were plenty of times where my parents would just be like, you know, some sort of order would come down.
Laurel (20:02) Oh, all the families have to go do this or all of the the parents have to so one example is so this was right before I was born. (20:11) My mom worked at a a church nursery school.
Scott Benner (20:16) Mhmm.
Laurel (20:17) But the nursery school is basically reverend Moon at one point said, all of the the moms have to leave and, like, go on foreign missions and go to other countries. (20:28) So they would leave their babies in these nursery schools, and, basically, they became, like, orphanages.
Scott Benner (20:36) Where was he sending the women to?
Laurel (20:38) To other countries to go witnessing, and fundraising and, like, spread the providence.
Scott Benner (20:44) Mhmm.
Laurel (20:45) And and my mom worked at one of these places, and she was, like, taking care of all of the babies and stuff. (20:52) And then from that experience, she was like, I don't wanna I don't wanna do that with my own kids. (20:58) You know? (20:59) So she, like, had a friend or so when she was pregnant with me, she had a friend, like, in, like, the head office and that helped her, like, get her name off of some list or something, and then she was able to, like, avoid it somehow. (21:13) So, like, you know, the
Scott Benner (21:15) For you.
Laurel (21:16) Done stuff like that.
Scott Benner (21:17) Yeah. (21:17) She did For you, you did she did it. (21:19) Yeah. (21:20) Are they in still, or are they alive? (21:22) I'm sorry.
Scott Benner (21:22) They
Laurel (21:23) are. (21:24) They are. (21:24) And they're, you know, as
Scott Benner (21:26) because didn't like, parts of like, he maintained some control from prison, but his family kinda took over the family business at some point. (21:33) Right?
Laurel (21:34) Well, he was only in prison for about eighteen months.
Scott Benner (21:37) Oh, that's not bad.
Laurel (21:38) And yeah. (21:39) And then he got released and and then, you know, continued on for years after that. (21:45) You know, the prison thing only really made everybody double down and actually got a lot of
Scott Benner (21:50) Oh, because he's being persecuted, they thought. (21:53) Yeah. (21:53) Exactly. (21:54) Exactly. (21:54) Gotcha.
Laurel (21:55) And he even got a lot of, like, other Christian ministers and stuff, rallying around him saying, like, this is religious persecution. (22:04) You know? (22:05) And, you know, he's built up business empires. (22:08) He bought the Washington Times. (22:10) A lot of people don't know that the Unification Church owns the Washington Times newspaper.
Laurel (22:15) True World for food, which is, like, The Americas. (22:19) That's where, like, all the sushi restaurants get their fish is True World Foods. (22:23) That's a Mooney owned business as well. (22:26) Oh. (22:27) Yeah.
Laurel (22:28) So it's a huge empire. (22:30) Now, though, there's so much stuff that's happening. (22:33) Like, you go down so many rabbit holes with you.
Scott Benner (22:35) Just whatever you think is most interesting. (22:37) So you're fine.
Laurel (22:38) Mean, after so he so reverend Moon actually died in 2012.
Scott Benner (22:43) Mhmm.
Laurel (22:43) And then after he died, the church splintered into a few different groups. (22:49) So two of his sons are, like, splinter groups now. (22:54) One of whom is has been in the news before as well. (22:59) He's in Pennsylvania. (23:01) He it's like the gun church called Sanctuary Church.
Laurel (23:05) Sean Moon is his name. (23:08) And they, like, they they got in the news because they had, like, a blessing ceremony with AR fifteens, and it happened right after the Parkland shooting, I believe.
Scott Benner (23:18) Okay.
Laurel (23:19) And so they ended up in, like, national newspapers after that.
Scott Benner (23:22) The wrong kind of attention.
Laurel (23:24) Actually, that when that happened in god. (23:28) That that was probably 2017, 2018, some somewhere around there. (23:34) That was, like, my final straw. (23:36) So I had for years and years sort of just been, like, receding into the background and and, like, you know, stop going to church on Sundays and and and slowly sort of talking to myself and being like, I don't believe in this anymore, and I don't wanna do this and, you know, and just sort of going through that process on my own. (23:55) And then that during during that, when that that all happened and and that blew up in the news, I was like, I don't even want to be in any way associated.
Laurel (24:06) Like, that's when I started being loud and saying, like, I am out and telling other people Yeah. (24:11) I am out.
Scott Benner (24:12) So how do you well, how do you decide to do that when your husband well, actually, let me ask one other question because it Yeah. (24:18) It's been getting away from me. (24:20) I think because of my life growing up watching eighties, television, I assumed you all lived on a piece of ground somewhere where you were doing farming. (24:28) But people had their own homes, and then they come together just for church?
Laurel (24:31) Yeah. (24:32) In the seventies when people joined, they were, most people were living in, like they dropped out of school or from wherever they would live in, like, church centers and stuff.
Scott Benner (24:42) K.
Laurel (24:43) There were maybe some places where they were on farms, but mostly not. (24:47) They were in, like, old, old, you know, buildings that they would convert into, like, a church center.
Scott Benner (24:55) Okay. (24:56) I mean, because when I start my I wanted to know, do I have to have a big piece of property, or can I I make people pay for their own house? (25:02) Because what a scam. (25:03) Like, you're in my cult, but you have to pay for your own house.
Laurel (25:05) I know. (25:06) I know. (25:07) Well, so what happened was, yeah, there was a lot of communal living when people first joined because they were all, like, you know, teenagers or twenties. (25:15) They were, yeah, hippies Yeah. (25:17) In the seventies.
Laurel (25:19) Then once he started matching people up and people getting married and having families, then it's harder to do that. (25:26) So
Scott Benner (25:27) Was there any
Laurel (25:28) And then he
Scott Benner (25:28) I'm sorry. (25:29) Is there weird sex stuff in this cold or no? (25:31) Like, does he get to have sex with your mom or like that kind of stuff?
Laurel (25:34) For sure. (25:35) There's weird sex stuff.
Scott Benner (25:37) Did this touch you ever, the weird sex stuff?
Laurel (25:39) Only in the sense that we knew about it and, like, I was exposed to some of those ideas and and things at, like, an early age that I probably shouldn't have been.
Scott Benner (25:52) I'm known about.
Laurel (25:53) I definitely know
Scott Benner (25:55) Your friends?
Laurel (25:56) My friends. (25:57) Yeah. (25:58) Yeah.
Scott Benner (25:59) Well, high high level, what's that look like? (26:01) Do they just pass you around, or do do you do you not get to say no if somebody tells you you're hooking up with somebody? (26:07) Or, like, what's it look like functionally?
Laurel (26:09) Well so it's, you know, sex cults are there's, like, two sides of the same coin. (26:15) Right? (26:15) So there's, like, a sex cult where it's, like, totally free and open, and it's like everyone have sex with everyone. (26:21) Right? (26:21) And then the other side is the purity culture side where it's like, we are going to control your sexuality no matter what.
Laurel (26:30) But it's still an obsession on sex. (26:34) So for us growing up, it was it was that intense control. (26:40) So we were told that any any kind of sexual desire at all was sinful. (26:47) Like, even just having a crush on somebody was bad. (26:50) So we learned how to suppress those things.
Laurel (26:52) And then when we, had to go when we had to I remember, and a lot of people had to do this. (27:00) So so when my husband and I we had a we had a an interesting process. (27:05) So when when I was older, all of our parents were matched by Moon. (27:09) But then as my generation kind of grew up, Moon was like, I'm not gonna do this anymore. (27:15) Parents, you do it for yourself.
Laurel (27:16) So it was more kind of like a family parent matching sort of situation. (27:21) It was a little more casual. (27:23) My kids around my age, that was, like, the first time they were doing it. (27:27) So my parents didn't really know. (27:29) They were like, I don't know how to do this.
Laurel (27:31) So they were just like, who do you like? (27:33) Like, who are you friends with? (27:34) Do you like
Scott Benner (27:35) me now? (27:35) It turned into normal right away.
Laurel (27:37) It it turned a little
Scott Benner (27:38) bit A little more normal.
Laurel (27:39) A little bit more normal. (27:40) Yeah. (27:41) Because so my husband and I had known each other. (27:43) We were friends for, like, a year and then knew each other. (27:46) So and and then we sort of, like, dated for two years before we did, like, the church ceremony, like, blessing and everything.
Laurel (27:53) So it it it was more normal than, like, what my parents went through or other, people went through. (27:59) That's my dog. (28:00) Sorry.
Scott Benner (28:00) No. (28:01) A dog? (28:01) Are you serious? (28:02) I I didn't know. (28:03) So wait.
Scott Benner (28:04) Can you explain to me, please, like, what does it mean to, like, quell your desires? (28:08) Like, you said Yeah. (28:09) When you said it, like, it was obvious. (28:10) You just do the stuff. (28:11) Like, what what's the stuff?
Scott Benner (28:12) Oh,
Laurel (28:14) I mean
Scott Benner (28:15) Like, you're mean, at some point, you're 16, 17, 18 years old. (28:17) See Sure.
Laurel (28:18) You see
Scott Benner (28:18) a boy, you're like, that kid's cute. (28:19) Then how do you make that go away?
Laurel (28:21) Okay. (28:22) Well, when I was a teenager, I for sure started, like, pushing back and sort of testing the limits. (28:28) And I I of course, I had crushes, and I I also just wanted to, like, be normal and Mhmm. (28:34) You know, go out with people the way my friends did or even just talk about it the way my friends did. (28:40) And so I I would sometimes, like, have a boyfriend in quotes for, like, about a week, and then I would feel so guilty and so horrible.
Laurel (28:52) Like, I'm the worst person ever, and this is terrible. (28:56) Because we were told this was not just bad for us, but we believed that all of spirit world, all of, like, our ancestors were, like, counting on us to, like, be perfect and then, like, restore them so that they could have a higher place in spirit world. (29:14) And so
Scott Benner (29:15) Spirit World was the real name of it?
Laurel (29:17) Yeah. (29:17) That's what that's what they called it, spirit world.
Scott Benner (29:19) Yeah. (29:19) Everybody just so you know, in my cult, I'm gonna do much better with the naming structures on things. (29:24) Okay. (29:24) Yeah. (29:25) Yeah.
Scott Benner (29:25) Don't you worry. (29:26) Don't you worry.
Laurel (29:27) Pick a pick a more like, interesting name.
Scott Benner (29:29) I mean, we're gonna make it sound more believable. (29:32) That's for sure. (29:32) Okay.
Laurel (29:34) Yeah. (29:35) No. (29:35) Spirit World was it was very it was
Scott Benner (29:37) Don't they sell Halloween costumes? (29:39) What is that what am I thinking of? (29:41) I mean, that might Spirit World? (29:43) That would be Spirit Halloween. (29:44) Yeah.
Scott Benner (29:44) Yeah. (29:44) Yeah. (29:45) Yeah. (29:45) Yeah. (29:46) I mean, come on.
Laurel (29:46) So we believed in in Spirit World. (29:49) And so, like, if you were having these desires, it was like you were being attacked by evil spirits or Satan or whatever, and you would there were things called conditions. (29:59) So if if you were doing something bad or some you know, you were struggling, that was, like, a a term, like, person's struggling. (30:08) You know?
Scott Benner (30:08) Mhmm.
Laurel (30:09) You could do certain things to, like, make up for it or, like, to, you know, do that mind over body thing. (30:16) So we were told to take cold showers because anytime that your body is uncomfortable, then the evil spirits don't like it, and then they, like, fly away or whatever. (30:25) So you would take cold showers or you would do bowing conditions. (30:29) So we learned how to do, like, the Asian full bows. (30:33) At a very young age, we would wake up at 05:00 in the morning every Sunday and, like, do a bow to reverend Moon and his wife's picture and, say, like, a pledge and everything that was part of, like, the family traditions.
Laurel (30:46) Mhmm. (30:47) So you could do, like, bowing conditions where you would do a 100 bows in a row.
Scott Benner (30:51) That'll take the horny right out of you. (30:52) That'll just that's higher you right out. (30:55) Like a
Laurel (30:56) For sure.
Scott Benner (30:57) I was thinking of flicking my bean, but I'm just I gotta give up. (31:00) I'm so I'm exhausted from the bowing.
Laurel (31:02) Yeah. (31:03) Your knees start to hurt. (31:04) You're just
Scott Benner (31:05) yeah.
Laurel (31:06) Not good. (31:07) And then there's the more extreme cases of, like, kids being sent to, Changpyang, which is the place in Korea, which was sort of like the Mecca, the spiritual place. (31:23) And back when I was growing up, it was just like this out in the Korean countryside, and they would do this thing called onsu. (31:33) Like, basically, ritualistic beating. (31:35) Like, you'd be in a circle with other people, and you'd have somebody behind you and somebody in front of you, and they'd be, like, tapping on you really hard and to a drumbeat and you over and over and over and over again.
Laurel (31:47) And, again, this was, like, getting the evil spirits out, and you would do it all over your body. (31:52) You'd move down all over your body. (31:55) Yeah. (31:55) And you would usually there were there were certain periods of time that you would go to Chongqing. (32:01) It was, like, twenty one days or forty days or a hundred and twenty days.
Laurel (32:05) He was very into numbers, So, there was a lot of, like, numerology number, stuff involved with everything we did.
Scott Benner (32:15) Yeah. (32:16) Well, I mean, you've gotta you've gotta use your time somehow once you're bored with breeding people to see what what colors their hair come out at. (32:23) Like, I mean, because I mean, on it's honestly that the pairing people really did make me feel like he's like, you know, if I took this puppy and put it with this puppy, I wonder if we get
Laurel (32:32) And and he was not I mean, he was very obvious about that. (32:37) Like, he put he wrapped it up into this thing of saying, like, oh, the excuse that he gave or or the thing that you would say as a church member is, like, oh, he wants world peace. (32:50) And so he is doing that through marriage, like, uniting people from different cultures that used to fight with each other. (32:56) So, a lot of couples would be, Japanese and American or German and Jewish, Korean and Japanese. (33:05) Like, these cultures that have, you know, famously sort of yeah.
Scott Benner (33:12) You all fight with each other. (33:14) Marry each other instead. (33:15) I Yeah. (33:16) I So, like, if
Laurel (33:16) if you all marry each other, then you can't, you know, not love your family. (33:22) So that'll fix everything.
Scott Benner (33:25) So in my cold, I could make, like, could make, like, an Omnipod wear, marry, like, a like, a tandem wear. (33:31) Right? (33:32) Yeah. (33:32) And then the and a Medtronic person with a pump, they'd have to they'd have to wear a Dexcom. (33:36) That's how I would that's how I would throw them together, make them do their thing.
Scott Benner (33:40) Oh my gosh. (33:41) But it's interesting to me Yeah. (33:43) The transition for you out of it is Yeah. (33:47) More recent than I thought it would be. (33:49) Like, there was part of me that when you started talking, I thought, like, you're gonna tell me, like, you know, you were 18, somebody gave you weed, you were like, I had sex in a car and left the cult, but that's not like you got put together with somebody, married somebody there, made kids, and how and your kids were born in into it as as well.
Scott Benner (34:05) Right?
Laurel (34:06) Yeah. (34:07) Yeah. (34:07) Okay. (34:08) Technically.
Scott Benner (34:08) We had time, but but you boogied pretty quick after that.
Laurel (34:11) Yeah. (34:12) I again, once my kids were born, it was sort of this, yeah, this this, light switch of, like, oh, I don't wanna expose my kids to that. (34:21) Yeah. (34:21) Yeah. (34:22) And I and I have to and I have to figure this out.
Scott Benner (34:24) The husband went along with this?
Laurel (34:26) Yeah. (34:26) You know, it's been a different process for him, but he's very supportive. (34:32) We've talked about it a lot over the years, you know, and we've always agreed on, like, how we wanna raise the boys and stuff. (34:41) And it's complicated because we're we're never going to be able to completely sort of separate ourselves.
Scott Benner (34:50) Why?
Laurel (34:51) Because our we want to stay in contact with all of our family members. (34:57) You
Scott Benner (34:57) know? (34:58) Oh.
Laurel (34:59) His parents, my parents, brothers well, my sister is out. (35:03) She left way before I did. (35:05) She she was the more typical sort of she left, like, right after college and was like, yeah. (35:10) No.
Scott Benner (35:12) I'm gonna go to college. (35:14) I'll be never coming back. (35:15) Thank you.
Laurel (35:16) Yeah. (35:16) Yeah. (35:16) Yeah. (35:17) Basically.
Scott Benner (35:18) Parents not talk to her?
Laurel (35:20) They do. (35:20) They do. (35:21) Okay. (35:22) And they've come a long way, but it was very hard for them in the beginning with her. (35:27) And, I was always sort of the middle I was always sort of in the middle.
Laurel (35:33) I would, you know Yeah. (35:34) Talk to them on the phone, and they would be crying and talking to me about her. (35:38) And then I would talk to my sister, and she would crying and talking to me about my parents.
Scott Benner (35:42) You ever sit with your parents and go, hey. (35:45) We're in a cult?
Laurel (35:46) Yeah.
Scott Benner (35:47) And then what what's the response?
Laurel (35:49) Not that direct. (35:53) I've I've brought up, you know, I brought up things like my my mom working at the nursery school
Scott Benner (36:01) Mhmm.
Laurel (36:02) And and sort of talking to her. (36:04) I've talked to her about that and and said, like, you know, I have friends who were left there for three years. (36:11) They didn't even recognize or know their parents when their parents came back to pick them up. (36:16) You
Scott Benner (36:16) know? (36:16) Mhmm.
Laurel (36:18) Because they were left there as babies.
Scott Benner (36:20) And you say to your mom, does that seem right to you? (36:22) And she says Right.
Laurel (36:23) And and my mom, yeah, she she gets this pained look on her face. (36:30) She feels sad about it. (36:32) But, also, she's sort of feels like, well, that's what we had to do, and it was a sacrifice. (36:37) And that's what we were told to do.
Scott Benner (36:40) Can I ask a difficult question? (36:42) It might be difficult for you to answer. (36:44) And
Laurel (36:44) Sure.
Scott Benner (36:45) It's not some people are gonna think I'm judgmental, but I'm trying to I'm just trying to get to the court, and I mean this Yeah. (36:50) A lot. (36:50) Are your parents are they dumb? (36:53) No. (36:54) I'm being serious.
Scott Benner (36:55) Like, are you, like or do you look at them and go, wow. (36:57) They're challenged. (36:58) They have trouble, like, they're getting through the rest of life too. (37:01) Like, does that do other things fool them, I guess?
Laurel (37:04) No. (37:04) Not at all. (37:05) My parents are very smart.
Scott Benner (37:06) Mhmm.
Laurel (37:07) You know, growing up, they listened to NPR. (37:09) They're very, like, intelligent people. (37:11) They're engaged politically. (37:13) Like, they're not dumb people, and most people who join cults are not dumb people. (37:18) That's, like, a very that's a very stereotypical sort of thing.
Scott Benner (37:22) I'm trying to get to it. (37:23) So then what happens? (37:24) How does how does an otherwise bright person get I was gonna say hornswoggle, but I'm not it's not eighteen fifty, so I'm not sure why I would say it.
Laurel (37:31) I know. (37:33) So a lot of the research has shown that the most common reason that people sort of fall for cults is because they're in they are at a point in their lives where either something has happened or they're they're in a state where they're vulnerable.
Scott Benner (37:51) Mhmm.
Laurel (37:52) Right? (37:52) So this is why call it cults recruit on college campuses because it's the first time that people are away from their homes. (37:59) They're out on their own. (38:01) They're, like, in a new environment. (38:03) They're trying to figure out life for themselves for the first time.
Laurel (38:06) My mom was dealing with depression before she joined. (38:09) Like, there's a lot of stories of people who are dealing with addiction before they joined and then joining that cult to that community because, another thing a lot of people in the ex cult world say is people don't join cults. (38:23) They join a community. (38:24) You join something that you think is a good thing. (38:26) And so it's like, wow.
Laurel (38:27) This thing helped me get sober, or this thing helped me, like, gave me some meaning and gave me some community.
Scott Benner (38:33) I'm already running a cult then.
Laurel (38:36) Oh, you absolutely are.
Scott Benner (38:38) Oh, I just I just haven't I just haven't paired you all up yet. (38:42) Something to look forward to in season fifteen when I get, I run out of ideas. (38:46) Don't you worry.
Laurel (38:46) No. (38:47) If you if you wanted to I mean, it's all about group dynamics. (38:50) Right? (38:50) Yeah. (38:50) If you if you wanted to, you could I've I have total faith in you.
Laurel (38:54) You could absolutely
Scott Benner (38:55) Oh, well, listen. (38:56) I let me stop you for a second, Laurel. (38:58) Yeah. (38:59) I'm gonna give myself a lot of I'm not giving myself any credit here because it's just not a thing I would do, but I could definitely do this. (39:05) Like, you're all I've I've said it before.
Scott Benner (39:07) I'll say it again. (39:08) You're all just lucky. (39:08) I'm a decent person, and I wanted to help people with diabetes. (39:11) Because if I wanted to make a bunch of money and buy property and get get myself into the, raw fish business, I could have done that too. (39:18) Yeah.
Scott Benner (39:18) So it's just a person who kinda sees how the world works Yeah. (39:22) Says to themselves, what do these people need? (39:24) What can I offer to them? (39:26) And then Yeah. (39:26) Then the then the then the the disruption there is then Right.
Scott Benner (39:30) That person goes, and I'll just be, like, you know, I'll be cruel. (39:33) I'll be I'll be worried about money before people. (39:36) And I'm just like, I just would like to see people with diabetes feel better.
Laurel (39:39) Yeah. (39:39) And it's exploiting it's exploiting people's genuine, need for community and, idealism. (39:48) Like, you know, my parents were told, like, we want peace. (39:51) Like, this was right after the Vietnam War and all of these things. (39:55) So they were like, we want we wanna love people.
Laurel (39:58) We wanna, you know, bring peace. (40:00) We wanna make a better world. (40:01) Like, these are the things that they Yeah. (40:04) Were told. (40:05) And once there's a thing called love bombing that actually the moonies coined that term, and it's something that's used widely throughout cultic system and just in in culture in general now is love bombing.
Laurel (40:18) And that's when a new person comes, you love bomb them. (40:22) You all of the people know that this this is the new person, all of the members, and they just you are the most interesting person in the world. (40:30) We're so happy to have you here. (40:32) You just feel amazing. (40:35) It feels amazing.
Laurel (40:36) So you basically called in the beginning.
Scott Benner (40:37) So so you sort of take common decency and then rev it up to a thousand. (40:46) Yeah. (40:46) And then overwhelm people's senses so that they feel like, oh, I have finally found this thing I've been looking for. (40:52) I've been addicted. (40:52) I've been ignored.
Scott Benner (40:54) I was molested. (40:56) And now I found people who are just gonna me. (40:58) And then you suck them in, get them feeling that, and then make them have sex with, like, a monkey Right. (41:04) And then take their money.
Laurel (41:05) And then and then well, there's still a Sorry. (41:08) There's a longer process until you get to the monkeys, but, you know, it's
Scott Benner (41:11) But get to the monkeys, Scott. (41:14) That's not day one, my friend.
Laurel (41:16) It's not day one. (41:17) You know, it's it's little by little. (41:19) And then, know, sort of by the time you're down to, like, oh, yeah. (41:23) I'm gonna let this person pick my spouse. (41:25) You're already so deep in it that
Scott Benner (41:28) It all makes sense.
Laurel (41:30) You're all in. (41:30) You're all in at that point.
Scott Benner (41:31) Also, pot committed. (41:33) Right?
Laurel (41:34) Yeah.
Scott Benner (41:34) Yeah. (41:34) They they they say, that's a real common, like, human thing. (41:38) Like, once you once somebody said out loud, I'm for a thing, they have a lot of trouble, like, publicly backing out of it again.
Laurel (41:47) Yes. (41:47) And so then all of those sort of psychological processes like cognitive dissonance Mhmm. (41:52) Kick in where your belief is so rooted to your identity that if somebody challenges it, it's like they're challenging your whole identity. (42:05) No. (42:06) And you cannot handle that.
Laurel (42:08) And so you have to your your brain can't hold sort of these two opposing views at the same time. (42:14) And so
Scott Benner (42:15) So politics find
Laurel (42:16) a way to rationalize it. (42:17) Yes.
Scott Benner (42:17) Politics as a cult.
Laurel (42:19) Absolutely. (42:19) Right. (42:20) Because then it
Scott Benner (42:20) it describes when by the way, I've seen these these little interview videos on, like, all sides of, like, belief. (42:27) So don't Yeah. (42:27) Don't think I'm talking about yours or the other one. (42:29) But Yeah. (42:30) You know, when you get somebody together and they say you say, like, why are you here?
Scott Benner (42:33) And they go, I'm here for a, b, and c. (42:35) And then somebody goes, well, actually, that's wrong. (42:38) He and here here's the and you can see them, like, see the the I don't know, the the proof in front of them, and you can watch in their eyes as they go, oh, hell. (42:47) I'm wrong about this. (42:48) And then they double down.
Laurel (42:50) Yeah. (42:50) Yeah. (42:51) Yeah. (42:51) Okay. (42:52) That's very common.
Laurel (42:53) That's that's why it's a lot of studies have been done. (42:56) It doesn't work to present somebody with facts or to say, hey. (43:01) You're in a cult because
Scott Benner (43:04) They're not gonna see it.
Laurel (43:05) They're not gonna see it. (43:07) They're not able to. (43:08) There there's that cognitive dissonance. (43:10) There's that defense. (43:12) Also, cults and other they build up these walls to sort of prepare you for the persecution.
Laurel (43:18) They're like, oh, these people, this is what they're gonna say. (43:20) And so that feeling of like, oh, if they say this, it's just because they wanna persecute us or they're there's all of these.
Scott Benner (43:28) They pre prep you so that when the common sense comes at you, you go, I was I was told the devil would come and be dressed like this. (43:35) Yes. (43:35) Right? (43:35) Like that feeling. (43:36) Oh.
Laurel (43:36) Yes. (43:37) And also, when somebody confronts you and you get that horrible feeling and it feels unsafe, it's that idea of persecution. (43:46) Right?
Scott Benner (43:46) Mhmm.
Laurel (43:46) And you want to run back to where it's safe and where people don't judge you or confront you, and that's the cult.
Scott Benner (43:53) How great are your kids to love bomb you? (43:55) You were able to push through all this just for them? (43:57) I mean, these are very handsome children, or what's going on here?
Laurel (44:00) I think so. (44:01) I think they're great. (44:02) Yeah.
Scott Benner (44:03) No. (44:03) But seriously, like, what do you have you you must have thought about this. (44:06) Like, what I mean, it's nice to say, like, I didn't want my kids to be there. (44:09) But I'm sure there are plenty of people who, you know, for example, left their kids in that orphanage, for the lack of a better term, didn't wanna live their kids there, but did it anyway. (44:18) So Yeah.
Scott Benner (44:19) What is it just happenstance? (44:21) Is it that you went to a public school? (44:23) You tried dating a little bit? (44:25) Did you have just enough of the outside world in you to be like, I this smells wrong to me, or, like, are you special? (44:31) Like, you know what I mean?
Laurel (44:32) Right. (44:33) Yeah. (44:33) I think I think it's a lot of those things. (44:37) The fact that I was born into it is also a different experience. (44:40) I know and not always the case because there's definitely people who were born into it who have stayed, and I stayed a lot longer than I should have.
Laurel (44:49) You know? (44:50) People leave when when they can, when they're ready to leave. (44:54) Yeah. (44:54) It's different when it's something that you didn't choose.
Scott Benner (44:56) What are the things you're getting from it? (44:58) Because you're an adult, you have your own home, you're making your own babies, all that stuff. (45:01) Like Yeah. (45:01) Why do you is it just is is in your mind, is it just church? (45:05) Or no?
Scott Benner (45:06) You see it's something bigger.
Laurel (45:09) So when I was younger, I absolutely believed in all of the things I was being taught. (45:16) Right? (45:16) And as a child, you know, that's sort of, like, part of the psychological process is, to trust your parents because you have to because that for safety reasons. (45:27) You know, again, it was like I was in I had the order sort of the split personality of, like, part of me knew that certain things were wrong or that certain things didn't feel good.
Scott Benner (45:37) Something didn't smell good. (45:39) Yeah. (45:39) It might have been it might have been the sushi.
Laurel (45:41) It was definitely the sushi. (45:43) Yeah.
Scott Benner (45:44) You. (45:44) Thank you very much. (45:45) Thank you, everybody. (45:46) Thank you. (45:46) If I was on stage right now, this is when I'd be waving while you're all laughing.
Scott Benner (45:49) Thank you. (45:50) Sorry. (45:51) Go ahead.
Laurel (45:52) And then part of me was, like, this is the community that I'm in. (45:56) There's you're surrounded by other adults and other kids and other people who all believe or you think they all believe the same thing, and they're telling you this is true and you know?
Scott Benner (46:07) Is that true, do you think? (46:09) Do you think they all believe it, do you think everybody's just there going like, it's too late now?
Laurel (46:14) I think it's a mix. (46:15) I think there's I think there's a lot of people who are true believers. (46:19) I really do. (46:20) And then there's other people who are sort of just hanging on because it's their whole they gave up everything else, and this is their whole life. (46:29) This is their whole community.
Laurel (46:31) To leave, is is much harder than it seems because there's such a huge cost in leaving. (46:39) Like, you lose all of your friends maybe.
Scott Benner (46:41) Do you think there are people who are just completely thrilled with being involved and have absolutely not one regret or argument and that and it's not because they're they're they've been hornswoggled, which by the way, looked up, and it's crazy that I know this word. (46:57) I mean, unbelievably odd things in my head. (47:00) Yeah. (47:00) Like, do you think do you think there are people who are genuinely happy?
Laurel (47:04) You know, I think there are. (47:06) And I think for the most part, those are the people who are not sort of in the inner circles or higher levels of leadership. (47:14) They're just sort of, like, normal members living their lives and, like, maybe going to their local church and being part of their community. (47:21) Mhmm. (47:22) But they're not, like, doing sort of all of the the big level things Stuff.
Laurel (47:29) Or or sort of in the inner circle where they know
Scott Benner (47:32) So no different, Lind, like, if I was Catholic and I went to church, but I wasn't, like, all in on everything. (47:37) I just showed up on Sunday, looked nice, threw in a couple shekels, I was on my way. (47:41) Like, that kind
Laurel (47:42) of that happens. (47:43) So There are there are members that that feel that way. (47:45) And that's how I felt that's how I felt
Scott Benner (47:48) How you felt?
Laurel (47:48) For many years Okay. (47:49) That I was in that place, you know, before I
Scott Benner (47:51) was parents are in at a formative time in the in the I don't know what they call it. (47:56) The cult, the church. (47:57) Like, they're they're in. (47:59) So they're they're dug in. (48:00) Right?
Scott Benner (48:00) They're that's before social media, before the Internet, before you like, you they heard something, and they were like, that well, if that's what you say it is, and that's what it is. (48:10) And then that's and then you're dug in before anything gets thrown in your face. (48:13) You you're younger. (48:15) Right. (48:15) You have actual, like, you know, like, normal, like, childhood rebellion that probably got probably got pointed at your parents and at the church at points and times.
Scott Benner (48:25) Maybe you didn't make it to the cold shower once or twice. (48:27) And so you had a little too much time to think, that kind of thing. (48:31) Okay. (48:31) Yeah. (48:31) I see it.
Scott Benner (48:32) Alright. (48:32) By the way, it's possible I heard it from Yosemite Sam and Looney Tunes is what is what the Internet tells me.
Laurel (48:38) Or in Spoggle?
Scott Benner (48:39) Yeah. (48:39) Yeah. (48:39) Apparently, that maybe is where I got that from. (48:42) So
Laurel (48:42) That sounds right.
Scott Benner (48:43) Oh, my god. (48:44) I felt so you know how I felt? (48:46) I felt as old as that lady at the grocery store yesterday when I said that. (48:50) I was like, maybe she was right to hit on me. (48:52) I give off I give off Hornswoggle energy, apparently.
Scott Benner (48:57) She's like, this guy looks younger than me, but he might just be a dye job. (49:02) Yeah. (49:02) Because, yeah, that's I might have a nice dark head of hair. (49:05) It's the secret to life if I'm being honest to everybody. (49:07) You gotta yeah.
Scott Benner (49:09) Whatever you believe in keeps your hair dark, say thank you.
Laurel (49:13) Yeah. (49:14) It's the best. (49:15) You know, I actually feel like I have an interesting relationship with aging because when I fully left and then sort of so also leaving and then, like, leaving in your mind or, like, two different things, like leaving
Scott Benner (49:31) Yeah.
Laurel (49:32) Physically and then and then all and then, like, healing from that is different. (49:37) I've been in therapy for many years. (49:39) Oh, I that. (49:41) Yeah. (49:41) Yeah.
Laurel (49:42) And so
Scott Benner (49:42) You must have taken a belt and tied yourself to your therapist.
Laurel (49:45) I mean, listen. (49:47) You're like, you
Scott Benner (49:48) you can't go. (49:49) I've got an
Laurel (49:49) appointment with her this afternoon.
Scott Benner (49:51) So You're damn right you do. (49:53) So, your parents, any autoimmune stuff with your parents? (49:56) Watch me pivot this into a beautiful two parter. (49:58) Go ahead.
Laurel (49:59) I was like, how are we gonna get that?
Scott Benner (50:00) Don't you worry. (50:01) It's not my first day, Laurel. (50:03) I'm gonna have you paired up in ten minutes making me money. (50:07) I by the way, also, when we're done here, I'm gonna need you to go across the ocean and tell people about the podcast for me.
Laurel (50:14) Okay.
Scott Benner (50:17) So is there any autoimmune in your parents or, like, their sides of the family, anything like that? (50:30) This episode was too good to cut anything out of, but too long to make just one episode. (50:35) So this is part one. (50:36) Make sure you go find part two right now. (50:38) It's gonna be the next episode in your feed.
Scott Benner (50:43) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Omnipod five. (50:47) Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system that's been shown to significantly improve a one c and time and range for people with type one diabetes when they've switched from daily injections. (50:58) Learn more and get started today at omnipod.com/juicebox. (51:03) At my link, you can get a free starter kit right now. (51:05) Terms and conditions apply.
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