#1827 PACE 1
Kelly opens up about raising two teens diagnosed with Type 1 at age six. She discusses international living , multiple miscarriages , alarm fatigue , and managing different sibling personalities.
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Key Takeaways
- Understanding ACEs: Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) measure exposure to early trauma (abuse, neglect, household dysfunction). A score of 4 or higher is statistically linked to significantly higher risks for chronic health conditions and behavioral issues in adulthood.
- The Power of PCEs: Positive Childhood Experiences (PCEs) can buffer and even heal the effects of early trauma. Experiences like feeling supported by family, belonging in school, and having non-parent adults who care are crucial for building resilience.
- Quality Over Quantity in Connection: Building trust and connection with children doesn't always require hours of time. Brief, focused moments of eye contact, physical touch, and genuine interest are highly impactful.
- PACEs Provide Actionable Steps: Protective and Compensatory Experiences (PACEs) offer tangible ways to support kids. These include establishing predictable home routines, ensuring access to healthy food, and fostering participation in hobbies or community groups.
- Breaking Generational Patterns: Understanding these frameworks allows parents to intentionally build environments that counteract their own past traumas, helping to stop cycles of adversity for the next generation.
Resources Mentioned
- Juice Cruise 2026: juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise
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- Tandem Diabetes Care (Tandem Mobi): tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox
- Juice Box Podcast Private Facebook Group
- Juice Box Podcast Series Lists: juiceboxpodcast.com/lists
- Wrong Way Recording: wrongwayrecording.com
Introduction to PACES
Scott BennerHello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast. Friends, welcome to the first episode of my Paces series with Erica Forsyth. This series is about something very powerful, the experiences that shape our brains and our lives. Research from the Landmark ACE study showed that early stress can affect how the brain develops and how our bodies respond to the world. But newer research adds something equally important. Positive experiences can build resilience and help heal those effects. In this series, Eric and I will explore what science says about adversity, support, and connection, and how families living with type one diabetes can intentionally build the kinds of experiences that help kids and adults grow stronger over time.
Sponsors and Community
Scott BennerIf you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. But everybody is welcome. Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. US Med is sponsoring this episode of the juice box podcast, and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from US Med for years. You can as well. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. Use the link or the number, get your free benefits check, and get started today with US Med. Today's episode is also sponsored by the Tandem MOBI system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. Tandem MOBI has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox.
The ACEs Study Reviewed
Scott BennerErica, the other day, I sent you a note, and I said, we talk about the ACEs sometimes. Is there something opposite of the aces? And I went to, the Internet to try to figure it out, and then I just threw it in your lap. And you've come I said, you know what? You get this. You don't want my brain picking through it. But but it occurred to me if there are things that, you know, studies say if you grow up around these things, you may be you know, you may have certain outcomes that are not positive. Are there things that people grow up around that give them positive outcomes more often than not? And I just found myself interested in that, and I wanna know what you unearthed when you were looking through all this.
Erika ForsythYes. Great. So well, lo and behold, even in your, you know, inquiry and thought, those things these lists, these studies do exist. And so we are gonna talk about the kind of the the opposite of the ACEs. Mhmm. Think it might be helpful to start with reviewing the ACEs study. And I know we we did do a resilience series, and we talked about the ACEs study pretty extensively, but thought we could start with that and then end today with talking about what the opposite of the ACEs are, which are, you know, adverse childhood experiences. So the opposite are positive childhood experiences. How does that sound?
Scott BennerI think that's terrific. And and you can please tease here a little bit that it maybe isn't as black and white as these things happen to you. So you're going to have positive outcomes or these things happen to you and you're gonna have negative outcomes. There's also maybe a more of a gray area?
Erika ForsythYes. So the results of the ACE study, which, yeah, we can we'll get into in a minute, but I think what the biggest kind of outcome that researchers kind of unearthed was that even if you have a high ACE score, a high adverse childhood experience score, if you were to take the the test or the survey, They realized that, wow, still a lot of people grew up and and this is for, you know, adverse childhood experiences between birth and 18 years of age. Okay. They found that as as adults, despite having high ACE scores, they showed up in life with healthy outcomes across the board, mental health outcomes, in relationships, in profession. So it there wasn't this you know, it wasn't, an equal it wasn't proportionate to the amount of know, if you had an ice high ACE score, that meant that you were gonna have a really challenging adult life. And so that led the researchers to wonder, well, what what was it that kind of aided people in having healthier outcomes later in life?
Scott BennerWe'll talk about that. That's awesome. Okay. So, yes, please, let's review what ACEs is just, you know, for anybody who's uninitiated.
Erika ForsythOkay. So the ACE study was conducted by the CDC and Kaiser Permanente of Southern California and by two doctors, doctor Vincent Felletti at Kaiser and doctor Robert Anda at the CDC. Mhmm. And so they conducted studies surveys with over 17,000 members from Kaiser here in my hometown in Southern California. And from the years of 1995 to 1997, there were two waves of these surveys that went out. And so the the kind of the landmark study and this article came out in 1998 as a result of these surveys. It was titled relationship of childhood abuse and household dysfunction to many of the leading causes of death in adults. So that's a pretty, you know Yeah. Intense title.
Scott BennerWhat a title.
Erika ForsythYeah. Okay. So they kind of continue to dissect and analyze the data and the research, and this continued into the February. But, basically, the summary of of the findings said that that the child's brain, you know, grows in a very sensitive way step by step. And during childhood, the brain is building, as we know, all of the systems that control your emotions, your learning, your memory, your stress response. And so because the brain is still developing when the child between newborn to 18, they have early experiences of stress or trauma, they will have a big outcome, right, and a big impact for better or for worse. Okay. So shall I keep going?
Scott BennerCan I just list them for people
Erika Forsythvery quickly? Go. Yeah. That's a great idea.
Scott BennerSo the ACEs are depending on how you read the list, I I I see them as being broken up into a couple of sections. Abuse, neglect, household dysfunction, I think are kinda like the three, you know, big ones. Inside of abuse, it's physical abuse that a parent or other adult in the household often or very often push, grab, slap, throw something at you or ever hit you so hard that you had a mark or you were injured. That's physical abuse. Emotional abuse that a parent or another adult in the household often or very often swear at you, insult you, put you down, humiliate you, or act in a way that made you afraid that you might be physically hurt. Then sexual abuse did an adult or person at least five years older than you ever touch or fondle you or have you touched their body in a sexual way or attempt or actually have oral, anal, or vaginal intercourse with you? So that's the abuse section. Neglect is physical neglect. Did you often or very often feel that you didn't have enough to eat, had to wear dirty clothing, or had no one to protect you, or your parents were too drunk or too high to take care of you or take care of or take you to a doctor if you needed it. Under neglect also, emotional neglect, do you did you often or very often feel that no one in your family loved you or thought you were important or special, or your family didn't look out for each other, feel close to each other, or support each other? And then under household dysfunction, which gosh. I guess they all could have, like, fallen under this one, but divorce or separation, were your parents ever separated or divorced? Domestic violence. Was your mother or stepmother often or very often pushed, grabbed, slapped, or had something thrown at her? Or sometimes often or very often kicked, bitten, hit with a fist, or hit with something hard, or ever repeatedly hit over the at least a few minutes or threatened with a gun or a knife. Jesus. Is the last time. Number eight, substance abuse. Did you live with anyone who was a problem drinker or alcoholic or who used street drugs? Number nine, mental illness. Was a household member depressed or mentally ill, or did a household member attempt suicide? And 10, incarceration. Did a household member go to prison or jail? And depending on how you answer those questions, you're, you're given a score. Is that that's how that works?
Erika ForsythYes.
Scott BennerYeah. Yes. Wow. It is a heavy list, isn't it?
Erika ForsythIt is a heavy list. Yeah. I believe we went into the results in the resilience series, but a high percentage of people from these 17,000 participants a high, high percentage had one or two.
Scott BennerIt's
Erika Forsythvery common. But I don't unfortunately, I actually don't have the numbers in front of me at the moment, but I I believe we went into it, and you can probably find those pretty easily if you were to if you were curious.
Scott BennerKicking around. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, that so, anyway, it's such a weird transition.
Erika ForsythYes.
Scott BennerYeah. That's the ACEs list. And, you know, if you've had these things happen to you, what did the study say? It does what for to you?
The Impact of ACEs on the Brain
Erika ForsythOkay. Yeah. So, yep, what happens when if you are exposed to any of these adverse experiences? So the research, even amongst not only humans, but also animals, have shown and indicated that too much stress, and particularly stress that is scary and unpredictable and repeated or repeated, can change how the brain works. It alters, the systems. And so if we can go into that, like, what does that actually mean? So the brain's alarm system, which is the amygdala, becomes extra sensitive. Right? The child may react more strongly to stress, fear, or conflict if they are exposed to these things that are scary, unpredictable, or repeated. The prefrontal cortex, which is your your thinking and kind of calming regulating system, can weaken, and this can make it harder to manage the big feelings. It could make it harder to stay focused, remain calm. The body's stress response system, which is the hypothalamic pituitary adrenocorticole, otherwise known as the HBA axis, is thrown off balance. So this the HBA axis is is designed to help you to respond to challenges. But if you get if you're exposed to early stress, it can lead you to feeling, overreactive. And maybe that's why sometimes people are are described or feel like they're being too sensitive, but that's really often a response to something like this
Scott BennerYeah.
Erika ForsythOr under reactive, and your body's just trying to shut down. Again, these are all systems and things that as a newborn or a child up to 18 develops to just try and stay alive. Right? Like, it's they're just trying to keep going, and so this is how your system responds.
Scott BennerCan I jump in for a sec? Is this a good place to pause you?
Erika ForsythYes. The yes. Go ahead.
Scott BennerGive me a half so I have the scoring here.
Erika ForsythYeah.
Scott BennerA score of zero. None of these 10 things happened to me, reported by roughly thirty six percent of the population.
Erika ForsythOkay.
Scott BennerOne to three reported by roughly fifty one percent of the population, and those people also saw a moderate increase in health risks. A score of four plus reportedly by reported by roughly twelve percent of the population. This is often considered a critical kind of tipping point where the risk for serious health and behavioral consequences rise dramatically. It's also asking me to remind you that a high score does not guarantee a bad outcome just like a low score doesn't Mhmm. Guarantee a healthy one. But once you get four and over, compared to a person with an a score of zero, individuals with an a score of four or higher are statistically more likely or much more likely to experience the following. Two times the risk of ischemic heart disease, two times the risk of cancer, two and a half times the risk of a stroke, three times the risk of chronic lung disease, four point5 times the risk of depression, significantly reduced life expectancy. Some studies suggest that up to twenty years difference could be between the scores of zero and six and over. And then behavioral health risks, seven times risk of alcoholism, 10 times risk of using injectable drugs, and twelve times risk of attempting suicide. So that's that's some pretty impactful data.
Sponsor Break
Scott BennerThis episode is sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. And today, I'm gonna tell you about Tandem's newest pumping algorithm. The Tandem Mobi system with Control IQ plus technology features auto bolus, which can cover missed meal boluses and help prevent hyperglycemia. It has a dedicated sleep activity setting and is controlled from your personal iPhone. Tandem will help you to check your benefits today through my link, tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. This is going to help you to get started with Tandem's smallest pump yet that's powered by its best algorithm ever. Control IQ Plus technology helps to keep blood sugars in range by predicting glucose levels thirty minutes ahead, and it adjusts insulin accordingly. You can wear the Tandem Mobi in a number of ways. Wear it on body with a patch like adhesive sleeve that is sold separately, clip it discreetly to your clothing, or slip it into your pocket. Head now to my link, tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox, to check out your benefits and get started today. I used to hate ordering my daughter's diabetes supplies. I never had a good experience, and it was frustrating. But it hasn't been that way for a while, actually, for about three years now because that's how long we've been using US Med. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. US Med is the number one distributor for Freestyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omnipod Dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, the number one rated distributor in Dexcom customer satisfaction surveys. They have served over 1,000,000 people with diabetes since 1996, and they always provide ninety days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping. US Med carries everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGMs, like the Libre three and Dexcom g seven. They accept Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers. Find out why US Med has an a plus rating with a Better Business Bureau at usmed.com/juicebox, or just call them at (888) 721-1514. Get started right now, and you'll be getting your supplies the same way we do.
PCEs: Positive Childhood Experiences
Erika ForsythYes.
Scott BennerI'm sorry. I just thought that might be helpful there.
Erika ForsythNo. That I think that's that's it is helpful. Yeah. So kind of going through what why that happens, we're kind of going through the kind of biological, neurological systems that are impacted by the stress that lead to some of those outcomes. The last two, the hippocampus, you know, which is where memory and learning is stored, the stress hormones can slow down the growth of those new brains brain cells, which impacts, consequently, your learning and memory. Mhmm. Concept but also on a positive, a nurturing and enriched environment can help repair some of those damaged brain cells. And we're we are we're gonna get to the positive Yeah.
Scott BennerIt's coming.
Erika ForsythStuff soon. It's coming. So, basically, the yeah. Your brain chemicals involved in in mood and relationships are are shifting, you know, in in these develop years. And so it can make it harder to regulate emotions, forming secure relationships, and feeling really safe and secure internally, which makes sense that some of that a lot of the outcomes that you listed occur because of this shift in brain development. So we can why why are we kind of reviewing this? Why we wanna kind of just remember the impact of of the ACE study was so significant and holding that you know, stress obviously impacts your child and not and they're not just being dramatic, but it is it is a chemical experience, right, as their brains are being wired. And positive, predictable, caring relationships are incredibly powerful. So and there can be healing. There it's not like if you're listening and you're thinking, well, either I, as the if you're an adult grown up now listening to this and that you experienced a lot of those ACEs, things can be rewired. Things can be healed. Things can be also prevented. So we're gonna kind of switch and talk about studies that came out as after the ACE study. I'll pause there.
Scott BennerOkay. Well, I mean, I don't know how other people parent, but it's my core belief that that part that you just said about being predictable, I think that's just super important. You know, just that your kids know they're getting what they get from you, and it's there if they need it, and that's it. That you're I used to think I know this isn't something everybody could do, but I always thought it was really valuable that my kids knew when they got home from school, I would be there. Like, just a very simple thing. I'm gonna open the door, and that guy is gonna be there. Right? Like, that's a thing I can count on. It happens every day. It builds trust. It builds it builds a lot inside of them. Right? Confidence. And then I have something that they I need to talk to you about. You stop and talk to them. You spend time with them. Listen. My my son's 26 at this point almost, and he he still lives here. He's, you know, trying to save some money up to, you know, move out. At the same time, he's been teaching himself to play guitar recently. And last night, I was busy. And I mean busy when he rolled into the kitchen and he was like, hey. Check this out. I taught myself this riff on the guitar. And I didn't even think twice. I just stopped what I was doing, leaned on the wall, I was like, show me. And he showed me once. He showed me twice. He showed me how he taught it to himself. And it's not easy because there is a voice in your head going, you're supposed to be doing something else right now. Right? And I just I fought the voice off, and I was like, it doesn't matter. Like, nothing matters except hanging out here with him for the next couple of minutes and let him share this with me. And then once I gave that away, I was enjoying it too. Not that I wouldn't have, but I was literally being pulled from one moment Uh-huh. Into another one. You know? I see that as the the successful end to him believing that when he has something to say, I'll stop and listen to him. And therefore, he came to show me because otherwise, if he didn't think I was interested, he would not have sought me out to show it to me to begin with. And I think all of that just builds together very nicely. Anyway, I that's what struck me of everything you just said, consistency and I don't I forget the words you used, but, like, the the belief that you're gonna be there or do or do a thing. It I mean, it's just as powerful as it is. The opposite is destructive. Right? If if if that same kid believes that when they come to me, I'm gonna dismiss them or that I don't care or I'm not interested or that, you know, if something gets said, they're gonna get hit, smacked, yelled at, screamed out, whatever. Like, you can see how that would would create a completely opposite situation. Anyway, sorry. That's, that's what you made me that's what you made me think of.
Erika ForsythNo. Absolutely. I'm sure I feel like we maybe have mentioned this on another episode, but the studies show that upon reconnecting with your child, it could be after school, it could be when you're getting home from work, that it's quality over quantity. So if you were to connect with eye contact, it could be for one minute. It might be a little bit more, but it's it's just brief. Yeah. Drop everything. Eye contact. Connect. Have some physical touch of comfort, hug, kiss, whatever you do is way more impactful than feeling like you need to go like, kind of not having that moment and then feeling like you need to go do something that maybe is not enjoyable for you as much Yeah. For hours and and kind of half being there. Kinda maybe you're on your phone, but you're also kind of throwing the ball.
Scott BennerI think the physical touch thing's really important too. I try to just lay my hands on them at some point, whether it's, like, on your shoulder as I'm walking by or, like, you know, tap you on the side as you walk by somebody. Just let them know, like, you're aware of them, I guess, is is is the way to put it. You know, with Arden, I think it's as as they've gotten older, like, I'll kiss her, like, on the head maybe or give her a hug when she walks by. But there's a thing. You can see it on people. Like, there's a moment in everyone's day. If you stop them and give them a hug, they're gonna melt. They're gonna be like, oh, thank god. I am tired of holding myself up. You know? And it just I don't know. Anyway, so hopefully Yes. Maybe that stuff's gonna pop up on that that list in a
Erika Forsythlittle bit. It it probably will.
Scott BennerOkay.
Erika ForsythYes. Okay. So I thought it was important for us to kind of clearly define and explain the difference between these two different acronyms as a result of the ACE study. So one is the PCE, and I guess we'll just say can we say PEACE or maybe we just say PCE? Positive childhood experiences. And then the other acronym that came out is after the ACE study was positive and compensatory excuse me. I even said it wrong. Protective and compensatory experiences. So we're gonna get into that a little bit today.
Scott BennerThat sounds like just a smart person trying to play off the aces, and then they got wordy.
Erika ForsythYeah. Yes. Well and then it also that also exists is now in within the kind of ACE community world Mhmm. If you will, they now refer to it as your PACE score. So you can also take a positive a PACE survey. Right? So then they'll say, what is your positive and adverse childhood experience score?
Scott BennerOkay.
Erika ForsythSo there's kind of these three things that exist out there.
Scott BennerThere's ACE, PACE, and PEACE? Is that really it?
Erika ForsythYes. Yes. Yes. Alright.
Scott BennerBasically, I wanna make sure I understand. Okay.
Erika ForsythOkay. The positive child experiences. So the study comes out. You know, the article comes out in the late nineteen nineties. People are dissecting the research. They're trying to determine why are people showing why are adults now showing up with such resilience even with high ACE scores? So doctor Christina Bethel released the results of a study in in 2019, and the study kit was conducted of 6,188 adults at John Hopkins. And she was seeking to identify what what are these qualities, these positive childhood experiences that could buffer against the health effects of the traumatic ones, the what that basically, all those things that you just listed.
Scott BennerYeah.
Erika ForsythRight? So because what we just explained, people are are showing up with kind of healthy, normal development, good adult emotional health, wanting to understand the why behind it.
Scott BennerSo somebody looked at somebody with a high ACE score and was like, I don't understand why is this person not suffering some of the same consequences we expect from people on this the the score high on this list. Exactly. And that leads to this. Okay.
Erika ForsythAnd that that leads to the study. So, basically, it identified seven experiences that are statistically linked to good, positive, emotional, and mental health in adults. Okay? So this is kind of leading to, like, you know, how we went into this again a little bit in the resilience series of, like, how does one become resilient? How does one have up with resilience later in life? And these seem to be the, the outcomes. So here should I go ahead and list them?
Scott BennerYeah. Do it. Yeah.
Erika ForsythOkay. Okay. So the seven positive childhood experiences are the ability to talk with family about your feelings and feeling safe to do so, the sense that family is supportive during difficult times. Number three, the enjoyment of participation in community traditions. Number four, feeling a sense of belonging in high school. Number five, feeling supported by friends. Number six, having at least two nonparent adults who genuinely cared, like, maybe coaches, people in your your faith community. Right. And number seven, feeling safe and protected by an adult in the home.
Scott BennerWow. That seems like pretty basic stuff. I guess not.
Erika ForsythYes.
Scott BennerI'm sorry. You're saying something positive and I got negative. You're like, there's some great things that happen to people, Scott. I'm like, why don't they happen to everybody? And but some of these didn't happen to me when I was growing up. But, just hearing them back, it I don't know. It just doesn't seem like a big lift to, I I mean, support somebody during a difficult time, for example. You
Erika Forsythknow? Right.
Scott BennerYeah.
Erika ForsythRight. And and, yeah, I think that there you could look at it from two different, you know, perspectives of, like, wow. It's remarkable that people, even with high ACE scores, still were exposed to these situations that buffered the stress that kind of helped heal, maybe rewire some of the the negative experiences that they had as a child.
Scott BennerRight. I'm gonna choose to think of it that way. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. Because if you're in a household that also has the those ACEs thing going on, if you're experiencing any of that, that means that somebody is probably fighting through their worst demons trying to bring this to you as well. Right? That's that's the situation where you find yourself talking about your parents later, and you go, well, they did the best they could, which meant they were they were limited, and they still pushed through in some areas. And okay. Alright. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have come negative. Okay.
Erika ForsythNo. No. It's okay. But I I think it yes. We one could also look at this list and think about it as, yeah, it seems like common sense. Seems like, you know, it would be nice to feel like a sense of belonging in high school. Mhmm. It would be nice to feel supported by friends, but also when you're thinking about those adverse childhood experiences, it also makes sense why some of these things would be highly difficult to be exposed to. But with that so the this list is, I think, just important to note that, like, it is something that has occurred for these these later in life, these adults who also experience these positive experiences that help them, you know, succeed in life or at least health be healthy and thrive.
Scott BennerSo I I'm looking at, like, an offsetting. Right?
Erika ForsythYes.
Scott BennerYeah. Like like, I don't know. The aces put three on, and we took one off, and it got a little like, that kind of thing. Okay.
PACEs: Protective and Compensatory Experiences
Erika ForsythYes. Alright. Yes. Okay. So that's that's the positive childhood experiences. So kind of moving forward and saying, okay. Well, what if like, must have been nice. Right? If if you're you're listening to this and you're thinking, well, gosh. I didn't I didn't have any of those things as a child, and I do have a high ACE score. Mhmm. Or perhaps your family system is experiencing a lot of these, stressors currently. I think where our hope is in that, you know, today and perhaps in the next, you know, one or two episodes is that we can provide some hope and some tools that things that if you have not experienced yet can be helpful to even heal now wherever you are in your age and stage of life to heal some of that pain and trauma.
Scott BennerBefore you move on, I wanna add something about the the ACEs scoring because it struck me as odd, so I've been looking into it while we were talking.
Erika ForsythOkay.
Scott BennerI thought, why does it not affect me poorly if I see a woman batter a man in my household? And it turns out that's a fairly common flaw, understood flaw in the system, and more modern clinicians have added it to say, do did you witness a parent or household member being hit and sold or threatened, etcetera? So but the the the the description's interesting that it said in the nineties, they they what they were trying to say was, have you seen your primary source of safety be assaulted? And that assumption back then that the children saw the mother as the primary source of safety. And that's why so the the question was designed on purpose like that, but it's been it's been changed, over the years. So, anyway, it just just as we were talking, like, I was like, that seems so strange. Why does it matter what sex is beaten on what sex? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me, and so there's your answer. No. Yep. Sorry about that.
Erika ForsythThat is interesting.
Scott BennerYeah.
Erika ForsythOkay. So, as a result, the there was a a kind of a community initiative called the PACES Science Initiative. Mhmm. And this acronym, as I mentioned, is stands for Protective and Compensatory Experiences. So and, again, this was developed after the ACES framework. And so we'll we'll go over the list, and then we can the hope is that we'll be able to go into more detail and even perhaps apply it to some, you know, diabetes Right. Specific work as well in the next two, in the next few episodes. So these these are 10 specific protective experiences that that not only like like the positive childhood experience that can buffer or counteract, but also repair the harm from the ACEs. So they these the PACEs fall into two different categories. One is relationships that heal, and this might these sound similar to the the PCE. Right? So having parents, caregivers who provide affection, having a best friend, having adults who stand by you during difficult times, being a part of a group, whether it's school or church or or other sports or activities, and having at least one caregiver with a steady job. And the second category is under resources that build skills and resilience. So these are participating in hobbies or community activities, living in a home with predictable routines, attending school that feels safe, having neighborhoods where people look out for one another, and having access to healthy food. So these these are more kind of actionable, right, things that that a family or a community or a school can can focus on and intentionally build and apply. So with that and we I think we kind of already discussed kind of identified the difference between the the PCE and the PACEs. And, ultimately, the PCEs are what helps the kids thrive and be stronger later in life, and the PACEs are are things that have been identified, again, through research that helps kids heal and thrive.
Scott BennerRight.
Erika ForsythI can pause there.
Applying PACEs to Daily Life
Scott BennerOh, yeah. I think this is really awesome because when I when I had the thought, it really was just a fleeting thought. I was sitting here working and doing something else at night. I thought there's so many times that I refer to this in the in the podcast. I'm like, did this happen to you? This happen to you? Have you heard about the ACEs? That thing I thought, is there not? Like, some like, didn't somebody do a study to, like, figure out the other side of all this? And, like, I I'm happy to know I I wasn't the first person to think of it, obviously. I actually feel a little silly now, but that's not the point. I like getting this back, like, especially because the resources here are they're just not heavy lifts, you know, like so what I'm reading is if if you're not living a life full of aces and you are, you know, doing some of these these, you know, piece or paces, then you're looking at a a a hopeful outcome. And even if you are struggling with things and you you could maybe facilitate some things that would offset and and really leave your kids in a better place. I mean, it's it's just a matter of you understanding that that's what's happening, and that's why we're doing it so that people can hear it and maybe hear because I I would also say that I wonder how many people are hearing this and thinking, oh, that's that's a horrible thing that happens to other people. You know? But that's not me. I'm from a good family and blah blah blah. But I'm telling you now, I've interviewed enough people. We all have some of those aces. Mhmm. Like, I I don't know that I've ever met anyone who's heard those 10 things and gone, nope. Not me. Haven't heard about it. Like so, you know, if you have some of that stuff happen to you, and you're effectuating other people's lives based on the building blocks that you came up with, you might not even know you're doing it half the time. Mhmm. I mean, there have been examples throughout the podcast that were, you know, not nearly this dire that, you know, I I I think of this one this one lovely woman who came on one time, and she was talking all about how her mom hid her health stuff from from them. They never she was never honest about her health stuff. But as she was telling her story as an adult, I was like, you hide things from people all the time. I was like and I said it to her. Like, I'm not you know, she's allowed it to be on, I'm happy to talk about it. But I was like, do you not notice that about yourself? And she really didn't. I was like, you talked about being covert here, here, not sharing this, not sharing that, and then easily flipped into talking about how your mom you couldn't believe your mom didn't share these things with you. I was like, that's I'm like, that's great. She's like, what should I do? I'm like, definitely go see a therapist. But but at the same time, like, this is what it makes me feel like. Like, you know, as you sit here and, like, wonder about, like, a magic wand fix for all this that doesn't exist, but as you try to imagine it, I mean, I quickly recognize there's no stopping this. This isn't gonna, like this isn't a light switch problem. This is generational slow building. Maybe fifty years from now, we won't be experiencing all this if you're lucky kind of movement. You you know? Mhmm. But for those people who are interested in it right now, I mean, again, I don't living at home with a predictable routine, you you must be able to, like, accomplish that. Like, you know I mean? Like, that's not tough. And I'll tell you too, I get uneasy when my household gets off of routine too far. Mhmm. You know? Like, it just it feels like everything's mixed up all of a sudden, and I don't know why that is. It because my dad yelled at me? Apparently, maybe. You you you're like, like, I don't know exactly, but that adds a ton of a ton of grounding. Even just watching my son, like, teach himself to play the guitar because we spoke about it one time. He seems more content. He's you know, in his free time, he's doing something valuable. He feels like he's getting somewhere. Even though it's not going incredibly quickly, he seems very proud of himself. He can come show with us. We are proud of him. We're happy to share that with him. You know what I mean? Like, in build, build, build. Guys could all do this is, I guess, my point in bringing all this up.
Erika ForsythYes. And I think what what is encouraging and hopeful, you know, that after the ACE studies came out, a lot of the discussion and emphasis was on, you know, how do we decrease these adverse childhood experiences Mhmm. Which is still a movement and still an emphasis. But I think as a result of a lot of this research and identifying, you know, resilience and wanting to learn and understand it more, the the research and a lot of you know, even the clinical interventions have been focused on how do we increase these positive childhood experiences. Yeah. And my hope is that as we kind of go through, it does seem like a very, maybe, basic list. It also might be a really complex and challenging list as you're thinking through. Well, how do I do this? I can't afford it, or I don't have time, or I don't have a community around me that feels safe. You know? Our our hope is that we can kind of go through these two different categories, the relationships that heal and the resources that build skills and resilience, and talk about some practical ways that might seem maybe very obvious for some, maybe not as obvious for others Mhmm. And and go into more detail through these two different categories.
Scott BennerNo. I take your point. I I look forward to having the conversation and having you point out to me that that's not so easy for everybody. Like, seriously, because just because it seems obvious to me doesn't mean it'll seem obvious to someone else. And, also, I might be thinking I'm doing it and not really accomplishing it too. You should go ask my kids. But, actually, don't ask them. But, like, you should yeah. It might be like, I don't know what that guy's talking about. None of that happens here. But Uh-huh. I don't know. I I again, I look forward to looking through it and trying to make sense of it so that the people listening can identify things that maybe they've seen in their past that maybe are impacting their future and can wonder out loud about how to stop it. Because it's all like, I hate to sound like an Oprah, like, episode from '86. Right? But you were just trying to break patterns, really. Mhmm. Just trying to stop the circle from from perpetuating onto itself. Because you do it to them, they're just gonna do it to somebody else. And, you know, it's never gonna stop until somebody figures it out. And luckily for me, I have a lot of episodes to make, so I have plenty of time to talk about stuff like this. And I find this to be incredibly interesting.
Erika ForsythMhmm.
Scott BennerI I think you know, Eric. I imagine people listening though, and this is not some unique thing about me, but I am you know, there are plenty of people who feel this way, but I am just endlessly fascinated by people's decisions and what they do and why they do them. I'm probably just trying to figure out why somebody treated me a certain way, but that's fine as long as we all get to talk about it and it helps somebody. You know? Mhmm. I think that's part of, what building a a a complete community looks like. And Yes. But and like you said, after you get this part hammered out, it's not too hard to adjust it and point it at diabetes a little bit. Like, there's easily gonna be ways to look at this and think about how do I be more supportive of people with their diabetes. And, you know, it it's just as easy as easily as you could sit here and say, if these things happen, then down the line, I might end up being an alcoholic. Right? It's easy it's easy to say if these things happen, then down the line, I might not be taking care of my diabetes the way I should be. So what could we do to offset some of that to give people a chance at at long term health and and happiness at the same time? So if we can help people a little bit with that, I'm gonna call this a big success. Appreciate you doing it.
Erika ForsythI'm excited about it.
Scott BennerThank you. I know you are. Actually, she was shot out of a cannon. Those were her words when we started recording. She's like, I'm so excited about this. And then they put a lot of pressure on me because I'm like, oh, god. I'm gonna screw this up. I know for sure. And I was like, she's got it all worked out in her head. I'm gonna say something dumb, and then she's gonna be like, no, idiot. And then we're gonna, like, go off on a oh, you know what
Erika ForsythI mean.
Scott BennerAnd then we're gonna go off on a tangent. You're such a therapist. She's like, no. I don't think you're an idiot. I know you don't think I'm an idiot. Stop. I got a lot of good feedback about you recently. I just wanted to share that with you. People really, really, really love these these conversations with you. So I yeah. Thank you very much for adding them to the show. Alright.
Erika ForsythThank you.
Scott BennerWell, next time we get back together, we'll keep this going.
Erika ForsythThat's right. Awesome. Thanks.
Scott BennerSee you soon.
Erika ForsythBye.
Closing and Outro
Scott BennerToday's episode of the Juice Box podcast was sponsored by the new Tandem Mobi system and Control IQ Plus technology. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. Check it out. Arden has been getting her diabetes supplies from US Med for three years. You can as well. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. My thanks to US Med for sponsoring this episode and for being longtime sponsors of the juice box podcast. There are links in the show notes and links at juiceboxpodcast.com to US Med and all of the sponsors. Hey. Thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box podcast. My diabetes pro tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward practical insights that truly make a difference. This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin, dosing adjustments, or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over thirty five years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. The diabetes pro tip series runs between episode one thousand and one thousand twenty five in your podcast player, where you can listen to it at juiceboxpodcast.com by going up into the menu. If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. Listen. Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go, and stuff like that. And it just I don't know, man. Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? And then I remember because I did one smart thing. I hired Rob at wrongwayrecording.com.
