#1548 Extra Dirty Toilet

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

A shocking pre-diagnosis moment involving an unclean toilet is the least of this episode. 

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back, friends. You are listening to the Juicebox Podcast.

Anthony 0:14
My name is Anthony, 25 years old. I've been type one for about three years I live in Australia, originally from the UK,

Scott Benner 0:25
my grand rounds series was designed by listeners to tell doctors what they need, and it also helps you to understand what to ask for. There's a mental wellness series that addresses the emotional side of diabetes and practical ways to stay balanced. And when we talk about GLP medications. Well, we'll break down what they are, how they may help you, and if they fit into your diabetes management plan. What do these three things have in common? They're all available at Juicebox podcast.com, up in the menu. I know it can be hard to find these things in a podcast app, so we've collected them all for you at Juicebox podcast.com, please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. This episode is sponsored by the tandem mobi system, which is powered by tandems, newest algorithm control iq plus technology. Tandem Moby has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows, and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g7 the same CGM that my daughter wears. Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox,

Anthony 1:46
my name is Anthony, 25 years old. I've been type one for about three years. I live in Australia. I'm originally from the UK.

Scott Benner 1:55
Okay, Anthony, is there any autoimmune in your family? Yeah, there's

Anthony 2:01
celiac in my family. I've got a type one cousin. There's a bunch of hypothyroid there's a few different things. Um, that's me and my my cousin are the only type ones. Only

Scott Benner 2:11
type ones. Okay, did you live your life growing up thinking like something might happen, or was it not talked about that way? No,

Anthony 2:19
not at all. So I was always someone who never, never got sick and didn't really have anything else and so completely out of the blue, really, yeah, you didn't

Scott Benner 2:28
realize you didn't get sick because you had a hyper, overdrive, auto immune, immune system going, Yeah, I guess, all right, it was like working overtime one day. It was like, You know what we should do today? Let's go find that pancreas, see what that thing's doing. Yeah, exactly. How did you end up in Australia from the UK, and

Anthony 2:45
my family moved so I was, I was about 11, and we all moved to Australia. My parents always wanted to move out of the UK. We got close to moving to Sri Lanka, all places. Oh, and then, and then, I think my mom got a better job offer, but then eventually

Scott Benner 3:01
moved here. I mean, this seems like the only time Anthony, I'm going to be able to say this, so, oh my god, I guess so there's times people don't know. It's not fun making a podcast, because sometimes you go to say something you think like, Man, this sounds dopey, you know? And I generally will share, do you listen to the podcast? Yeah, all right. So I'm happy to tell people I have a chameleon or two, right? But I actually, God, here we go. I keep a small lizard that's from Sri Lanka, and they're endangered there. Oh, god, they're endangered there. So my goal is to let the two I have breed and then I don't like I don't I'm not really looking to be in the reptile sales business. I'll get them back to the breeder that gave them to me so that he can kind of disseminate them out into the hobby, so that they, hopefully, you know, can gain their numbers. Anyway, they're called kofodus dambara. I can't believe I'm saying

Anthony 4:00
that I love that. I love to have a pet lizard.

Scott Benner 4:02
They're very tiny. They're only a couple of inches long. They live in a fairly small enclosure. They get along super well. They're friendly, like, they kind of jump on your hands while you're, like, feeding them and stuff like that. Yeah. And they're, you know, because of deforestation, they're not doing well in Sri Lanka. So, yeah, anyway, God, no one. I've never once said something on the podcast that I wanted to follow up with. Please don't tell anybody this. Anyway, I'm by myself, and I'm embarrassed, and I shouldn't be like, I just think it was. It's just a nice thing to do. You know what I mean? Yeah, anyway, all right. So you, you're like, you're 25 you're like, Dude, stop it.

Anthony 4:43
No, I love animals wild. I've done a wildlife degree. I've got a bachelor of wildlife science. I love everything about Yeah,

Scott Benner 4:50
oh, no kidding, yeah. I'm telling the right person, yeah, yeah, definitely the right person. You went to university for what

Anthony 4:57
a bachelor of wildlife sciences. It's called. Yeah, yeah, what do you do with it? I teach childcare. I'm a childcare teacher. Oh, I don't really use a degree anymore, but yeah, it's all about. It was all about anything from research with animals to zoos, anything to do with wildlife. Who covered really? Yeah, was

Scott Benner 5:19
it hard to get a job doing that? Or did you find yourself not interested? I ended up working in

Anthony 5:24
it's called Bush regeneration in Australia. I think some places called it rewilding. I was killing weeds in national parks, right? And my degree didn't count anything. So I had to do a certificate and be on a trainee wage like, Oh, my God. I ended up leaving that when I was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 5:41
Oh, in the 70s here in America, there was a wave of Bush regeneration as well. Yeah,

Anthony 5:47
no, it's really good. I really enjoyed that. Oh, but it was just kind of kind of the workplace sense of like they didn't want to pay us and they wanted to give us some training wage and all that sort of stuff. So

Scott Benner 6:00
now you teach kids yeah. And now teach kids, we teach them not to get a degree in what?

Anthony 6:04
Yeah, yeah, exactly, in wildlife science, whispering

Scott Benner 6:08
in these kids ears, listen to me, math, science, okay, not wild. But does it help you live in that zoo that they call a country that you're in? Yeah,

Anthony 6:19
at least if we get a snake at work, I know what to do.

Scott Benner 6:24
You're the guy. Can you imagine people like snake and they're like, Oh, don't worry, Anthony, wasted four years on a degree. We'll go get him.

Anthony 6:30
No, yeah, definitely. Every time there's an animal. Do you keep animals? Personally, just got a dog and a couple of cats, but I really want to get like, a lizard or something.

Scott Benner 6:40
You guys have some pretty cool lizards in Australia that you can keep. Yeah, we

Anthony 6:45
do, yeah. It's quite restricted on we can't have, like, not native lizards and things like that. There's a lot of native ones you can have yet,

Scott Benner 6:53
right, right, right. Awesome. Okay, all right, all right. That's Yeah, listen, well, maybe you'll get something one day. We've taken your Bearded Dragons here in America and turned them into like kittens. They're everywhere. They're pretty cool. Match, yeah, I'm just gonna say this, and then we're gonna move on. There's a girl on Tiktok who's taught her bearded dragon to poop in the toilet. And it's, it's somehow awesome and disgusting at the same time. I don't know,

Anthony 7:16
yeah, I don't know what to think about that. She holds it over,

Scott Benner 7:19
and it just like, glad. And I'm like, oh, it's happening anyway, not the point. When did you first get signs of type one, like, what? How did it present itself?

Anthony 7:29
Yes, it was while I was working in Bucha generation. So I got a couple of ticks on my head, okay? And I got sick from that with some sort of tick virus. Sorry, my dog's about to knock over the coffee table with some sort of tick virus. And I just never felt like I got sort of recovered properly from that. I started feeling tired. I was super thirsty, but it was starting to warm up. And this was my first year working in Bucha generation. So I was like, Oh, it's my first summer. I'm just drinking lots of water. And I was going to the toilet a lot, and I was like, Well, I'm drinking lots of water, so I'm going to toilet a lot. But eventually got to the point where I couldn't, I could wake up twice every night to go to the toilet and like, that's not normal, right? And so eventually I went to the doctor, and he's like, Ah, I was vegan at the time. He's like, Oh, it's probably some nutritional thing because you're vegan.

Scott Benner 8:19
Throwing his own politics into his

Anthony 8:23
but he threw in the glucose test just just in case, he said. And then I just got this call, and we like, oh, it's type one. And he it's not type one, sorry. He said he's type two. And he was really shocked. No, he said, because of my age, it must be type two,

Scott Benner 8:39
that's what he said, because you were 22 you can manage diabetes confidently with the powerfully simple Dexcom g7 dexcom.com/juicebox, the Dexcom g7 is the CGM that my daughter is wearing. The g7 is a simple CGM system that delivers real time glucose numbers to your smartphone or smart watch. The g7 is made for all types of diabetes, type one and type two, but also people experiencing gestational diabetes. The Dexcom g7 can help you spend more time in range, which is proven to lower a 1c The more time you spend in range, the better and healthier you feel. And with the Dexcom clarity app, you can track your glucose trends, and the app will also provide you with a projected a 1c in as little as two weeks. If you're looking for clarity around your diabetes, you're looking for Dexcom, dexcom.com/juicebox when you use my link, you're supporting the podcast, dexcom.com/juice dexcom.com/juicebox, head over there. Now let's talk about the tandem Moby insulin pump from today's sponsor, tandem diabetes care, their newest algorithm control iq plus technology and the new tandem Moby pump offer you unique opportunities to have better control. It's the. Only system with auto Bolus that helps with missed meals and preventing hyperglycemia, the only system with a dedicated sleep setting and the only system with off or on body wear options. Tandem Moby gives you more discretion, freedom and options for how to manage your diabetes. This is their best algorithm ever, and they'd like you to check it out at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox when you get to my link, you're going to see integrations with Dexcom sensors and a ton of other information that's going to help you learn about tandems. Tiny pump that's big on control tandem diabetes.com/juicebox the tandem Moby system is available for people ages two and up who want an automated delivery system to help them sleep better, wake up in range and address high blood sugars with auto Bolus. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Yeah. You're young still like how little people know is probably going to continue to shock you for another 15 years, I would imagine,

Anthony 11:01
yeah, well, he called the endocrinologist from the hospital when he got these results, and this was what the endocrinologist told my GP, awesome. She's just great, right? So it says he asked me about all like, what I eat, and so it says on my like chart from my diagnosis, because I said us, I don't really drink sweets. I don't drink soft drinks. Sometimes I have like, a nice tea, and it says drinks lots of sugary iced tea. And I was like, it's not really what I said.

Scott Benner 11:29
I said, sometimes I have a tea, and

Anthony 11:33
they're like, Aha, yeah, exactly right.

Scott Benner 11:37
Describe yourself, Anthony. You're lean, chubby, muscular, lean,

Anthony 11:42
and I was before diagnosis and type one and everything, I was 65 kilos already. I'm about six foot not to know what that is in town. Sorry, to find out, kilos.

Scott Benner 11:53
How much did you lose? Tell me. Tell me again. I'm sorry, 10 kilos. That

Anthony 11:58
sounds like a lot, yeah. And I didn't really have that to lose.

Scott Benner 12:01
65 Why does do you love when you type something in and it changes what you type? Like, oh,

Anthony 12:08
it's great, isn't it? Yeah, you don't have to, you don't have to change it for me. Yeah. Don't have to guess, yeah.

Scott Benner 12:14
Don't guess I typed it myself. I'm good with it. If I'm wrong, like, you know, I'll fix it. Let's see, 65 kilos is 143 pounds. Oh gosh, yeah, you didn't and you're six feet tall, yeah? Oh yeah, you don't have any there's no way for you to lose right? Yeah, to go. Was it? Yeah? Okay, yeah. So 22 like, are you with the doctor, with your parents? Are you by yourself?

Anthony 12:39
No, I just went by myself. So he gave me a call in the morning with the results, and was like, Oh, can you come in this afternoon? And I was like, yeah. So I carried on working, like, like, carrying, like, a 25 liter pack of weed killer on my back, and, like, hiking through the bush the rest of the day. And then I was stopped at the bakery and got a caramel slice, because I was like, well, it's probably the last one I'm gonna have for

Scott Benner 13:02
a while. Oh, no, kidding. You had that, and you're not a big sweet, but you had the fear. You're like, I better grab something real quick. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God, by the way, how much money are you making crawling around in the bush again for the with the RE film? Like, next

Anthony 13:14
nothing. Next nothing. Yeah,

Scott Benner 13:18
I imagine you out there like half in DKA, and you're just like mumbling to yourself about your degree and the weeds.

Anthony 13:26
Yep, COVID in ticks and leeches and yeah, oh,

Scott Benner 13:29
awesome, yeah. No, no, there's no amount of money. How much would have made it a good job being serious, I

Anthony 13:38
don't know. I genuinely enjoyed it, like it was the money was the only bad thing about it. For me, awesome. There was one place we worked for where we had to put on, like, knee high gum boots and like, wade through mangroves to get to the place that we're working. And you'd misstep, and then you boot fill up with water, and that would just be it for the next hour walking with a boot full of water and but I loved it. It's great

Scott Benner 14:00
you did. There's no feeling of like, I know a poisonous snake is gonna kill me now. No,

Anthony 14:05
when we saw a snake, I was excited. That was, yeah, good to see it.

Scott Benner 14:10
I got you all right. I don't know what's wrong with you people, but I know. Listen, by the way, also I know I'm the one with an office full of reptiles, but like, I still don't understand, I don't understand the whole snake can kill me thing. And everybody's like, Oh, look. But anyway,

Anthony 14:22
as long as it's over there and I'm over here, well, I know, but what

Scott Benner 14:25
happens if you, like, come upon it by mistake, they hear

Anthony 14:28
you way before you see it. So most of the times you see a snake, it's slithering away. So I'm counting on the snake, not the one to run, yeah, yeah, pretty much, right. But, but they do okay, that's what they do once working with like slashing this, these bushes with machetes to try and make paths for us. And then I go to lift it up to slash, and I look at where I'm about to hit, and there's a snake on the branch I'm about to butcher the snake. So to, like, stop and try and move the snake with the handle. It was a pie thing. It wasn't a venomous one,

Scott Benner 15:01
sure. Now that one would have just like slowly constricted you till you died. Not so bad, no, not so bad at all. When your eyes are popping out and you're still alive and everything, it's awesome anyway. So you're at the very not helpful Doctor getting even less helpful advice from an endocrinologist. So what's the next

Anthony 15:19
step is? Omingering about doing the blood test for type one, and ends up being like, Oh, well, you got to do blood tests again in a month, so we'll do it then. And it refers me to a diabetes educator and to a different endocrinologist, because I live in a different area locally, so I didn't get the same endo that was on the phone, but I just took my time getting my appointments and sorting that all out, because of what I'd later find out was ADHD. But at the time, I didn't know,

Scott Benner 15:48
how did you feel during that that period? Like, did you feel like, oh gosh, I feel ill. I should do something, or did it not feel emergent to you?

Anthony 15:56
Yeah, well, I started on Metformin and trying to do a do a diet. But, like, my diet was really, like, healthy and low carb anyway, just cut out the ice tea, yes, but I started, like tracking it and using there was like this CSIRO diet with like points for different types of food and all this weird stuff. And it helped a little bit, but not much. Like I was still waking up, and my blood sugar would be like, 12 in the morning, and, yeah, it would still spike every time I ate because I wasn't having insulin. You

Scott Benner 16:30
know, do you think that you were in some sort of a honeymoon situation?

Anthony 16:33
I think so. Yeah, I think definitely that helps, and that's why the Met farm has sort of helped a little bit at first.

Scott Benner 16:40
So between the honeymoon and you now having an even more restrictive diet, were you actually able to restrict your diet more?

Anthony 16:48
Like, yes and no. Sometimes it was sort of stayed, like I said. This would have been like 1617, it would come down and and hover around the sort of 1012, sort of mark, which is still obviously high, yeah. But then I would, I would just be, like, frustrated, I think that it just wasn't working, and that it was so restrictive, and then I just go and get a chocolate bar, just because, like, I'm just gonna eat anyway, because my sugar's high anyway.

Scott Benner 17:11
You had that feeling of just, like, meaningless, and it's not doing anything. So I might as well, yeah, live my life. Okay,

Anthony 17:17
yeah, definitely. And I sort of, I like, I had the feeling that the diagnosis was wrong. It was just getting the like, what to do about it right. Like, in that month, trying to get back into the diabetes educator and like, the doctor was, like, not wanting to the blood test and just trying to like, yeah,

Scott Benner 17:35
yeah. Did you have that feeling because of your family history? Or Had that not even occurred to you at that point? No,

Anthony 17:41
so that hadn't had an attachment. I didn't know that the autoimmune was all connected in that way. So I was like, I've got one cousin who's type one, but out of like, I've got like, 15 cousins. So like, yeah, I

Scott Benner 17:53
love that. That's great. That's great logic. You're like, but there's so many of them. It's only one, yeah, it's just one,

Anthony 17:58
right? That's not a family history. But when I actually look at autoimmune most, most of my family does have something. I imagine

Scott Benner 18:05
if you would have gone to the internet and said, Listen, I have 15 cousins, and only one of them has type one diabetes, what's the odds that I have it too? It would probably have come back and said, about the same odds of in the general population where diabetes is about one in every Yeah, yeah. You've been like, oh, okay, never mind. Plus, it's not the it's not just the cousins you're tracking. It's everybody in your family and, you know, historically and everything else. Yeah, wow. Well, that sucks. So do you live by yourself at that point, or do you live with your parents? I live with my partner? Yeah. Okay, okay, so you're not with people who like, love you, raised you and is looking at you going, like, something's wrong. We have to help. You're off on your own. You tell your parents I might have type two diabetes. And they're like, Oh, let us know what goes on. Is that about it?

Anthony 18:48
Yeah, yeah. They don't know more than me about it, so they're like, sure. Like, that's the doctor said, Right, right. My partner was very much actually. He was like, I don't think you have type two he was pushing me to try and get the correct diagnosis stuff.

Scott Benner 19:01
Have you ever spoken about with him? Like, what gave him that idea? Yeah, he

Anthony 19:05
knew a couple of people as a kid with type one, and he was just like, You're so skinny, I see the way how healthy you eat. You've been vegan, you like, basically go on a hike every day for work. Like, that's not type two. You know, it

Scott Benner 19:18
seems crazy that you might have type two diabetes, right? Okay, so did you listen to him? And if not, has he bugged you about it for the last three years? Yeah, definitely.

Anthony 19:26
He definitely takes credit, but definitely and for realizing his diabetes in the first place. He was like, that was

Scott Benner 19:33
me. Oh yeah, I would do the same exact thing. Eventually

Anthony 19:35
get the blood tests, and sure enough, it comes back type one. You're like, what

Scott Benner 19:40
was your first thought? Oh, I can't believe I got to go tell go tell him he was right, yeah, pretty much.

Anthony 19:48
I think by that point, I'd pretty much accepted that. Started listening to the podcast already as well at that point, and I was like, yeah, it doesn't sound like I have type two. How did you find the podcast? I found it through Tiktok. I was. Was searching on tick tock for diabetes, and then someone mentioned your interview with the Omnipod CEO. And I was like, that's not even in Australia, okay, but when I was looking for more more diabetes things, I was like, how was that podcast that somebody mentioned? And when I found out, yeah, it's so interesting

Scott Benner 20:18
to me. Like, you have to imagine, like, my position, like, I make this thing and I put it out, and I'm like, how do people get? How do people get? And like, you know, Oh, I saw a thing. And then I thought, Oh, that's not for me, because that's not even in Australia. But then, like, weeks or months later, you're like, What was the name of that pot? Like, that's such a Yeah. And

Anthony 20:34
then I thought, again, oh, it doesn't even have type one. He's just a parent. He's just all going to be about kids. Yeah. Obviously, when I listened, it's not Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 20:43
no. I don't have really the ability to speak like that. I don't, I wouldn't even know how to do that. I'm good with kids, though. By the way, I am going to children with diabetes this summer, and I'm going to do a whole thing with kids. Oh, yeah, awesome, yeah. I'm great with kids. But also, I had a conversation with a woman yesterday that, trust me, you shouldn't let your children listen to so I don't know, I just talk about things the way it occurs to me. So you find the podcast. Can I ask just real quick, I want to get back to your story. Do you just start listening randomly? Do you find out about the like, the series, like the Pro Tip series, or something like that? Like, how does what's

Anthony 21:14
your entre? I start off listening randomly, and I remember I like search, like Australia, and I search for things like that that I thought would be relevant and and then I happened across, I think, I think it was just one of the new episodes that came up was part of the series. And then that sounds like, Oh, I'll go back and find the rest of these

Scott Benner 21:33
interesting. That's helpful for me, actually. Thank you. I appreciate because what I'm trying to do is never how it's taken, like, that's the strangest thing of starting something like this, is that, I mean, I've been doing this now for 11 years, like, so in 2015 I was like, well, here's what I'll do. I'll do this, and this is the reaction they'll have. And then that didn't happen. And I was like, oh, so I do this, and then they have their own reaction. I'm like, okay, that makes sense. Like, you know, everyone's different, right? Yeah. And you think, okay, then there's, like, well, I made the Pro Tip series. It's there. Go find it. Well, that's not exactly how that works. And then, you know, we recently added like, another episode to it, and I remember somebody saying, like, Oh, I didn't even realize this was a thing. And there's part of you that wants to bang your head against the wall when you say, when somebody says, you're like, behind, trying so hard,

Anthony 22:19
yeah, you've made that specifically, and then no one's listening. Yeah, people are gonna find it, don't they?

Scott Benner 22:25
So anyway, it's, you know, always a way to, like, try to get people back to, like, I don't know, you know, the way social media works is that, you don't, I mean, think about it, like at some point today, you're gonna stick your phone in your partner's face and be like, Oh my God, look at this. Yeah, and a week from now. If I said, Hey, go back to last Wednesday, remember that video you showed him, you'd go, No, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I'd have no idea. Yeah, it goes that quickly. So it's kind of my job to always be reminding people that so you find the new person without pissing off the people who already know, who don't want to hear over and over again about something they've already figured out. Like, it's a weird balancing act anyway. Yeah, it is. I deserve a lot of credit, is what I'm saying. Okay, so you wait the month eating chocolate bar is kind of given up, like, then you end up at the end dose appointment, and what do they tell you? Yeah,

Anthony 23:14
the diabetes educator was first the endo took ages to get into for the diabetes educator, but by this point, like, a couple of days before, I'd been diagnosed type one, after the results came back, and the GP given me insulin, and he's just put me on, like a sliding scale, really. And so the educator had the referral from when I was type two, and she looked at the referral and looked at me and looked back, and she was like, I don't think you're type two. I was like, yeah, so she, she was much more on to it than than anyone else so far had been. She's got me just doing just four units each meal at first, and then eventually, I think after a month or two, carb counting, okay, but she's really good at just letting me sort of do what I want with it. I just say, like, hey, like, I think I need to increase my basal. And she's like, Yeah, that sounds right, okay. And then eventually she was like, Yeah, you you've got this. You can start adjusting, like, whenever you feel like you need to just make sure you wait a couple of days. And this

Scott Benner 24:13
is gonna sound self serving, but I genuinely, I don't mean it this way, but do you feel like you learned how to take care of your diabetes

Anthony 24:20
from me? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, I've told there's only a couple of people that I've met with type one since, since my diagnosis, but I tell them about your podcast, and I say I've learned more from you than any doctor or endocrinologist or educator anything. Definitely. So

Scott Benner 24:35
did you get the vibe from the diabetes educator that they were relieved that you knew what you were doing. You know what I mean? Because I try to imagine all the stories you hear of people are like, Well, I went to the diabetes nurse educator, or I went to the Endo, and I, you know, my a 1c, was nine or 10. I didn't know what I was doing. Like, I'm trying to put myself in their shoes, if they're like, oh, wow, good. Here's one that's going to be okay. You know, I

Anthony 24:57
think she was because, because the first I didn't, I. What I was doing, right? Sure, I think she picked up that I was, I was picking things up, and I, you know, wasn't going to be neglecting my kind I was gonna, gonna be putting the effort in and trying to figure it out. And she's like, well, if you can figure it out, then great, you know, and supported that, yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 25:16
gonna put this out there, Anthony, maybe somebody will hear this. And there's no way this would ever happened, but this is just something that I'd be super interested in. Like, listen, I should start again by saying, I know this can't happen. I'd love to be in that setting for a week and talk to people like, and figure out, like, is it just impossible, or are they missing something? Like, I like, I wonder, like, No, right? Yeah, it's super interesting, because, like, listen, far more people are gonna go to a doctor and then there's a coin flip. Either get one that is good at explaining it to you or giving you other resources, or you're not, and far fewer of those people are gonna make it back to me. So am I being unfair by saying, like, I can't believe that they're generally not able to direct people well or, like, if you put me in that scenario, would I be lost too? Because there's part of me that thinks I could do it. Yeah, I'd love to find out. All

Anthony 26:09
right. And this GP that that misdiagnosed me has been like, he was my family's doctor for a while, and he's been like, great with everything out he'd like, finally, after years of seeing a different doctor who is just doing like, rinses on my sister's ears because she had a chronic ear infection, this GP finally figured out that there was something more going on that we shouldn't just be like cleaning the ear infection. We should be figuring out what what the problem is, right? Why does this ear keep getting infected? Why does it happen? The previous GP didn't even bother thinking about that, right?

Scott Benner 26:44
No, so you're saying so you had a reasonable this person was better for you than somebody else was. But once, once you get into the the nitty gritty of diabetes there, I understand the GP, not, not under you understand,

Anthony 26:55
then he contacted the Endo. Yeah, I don't understand the endo

Scott Benner 26:58
at all. Right, that's the piece I

Anthony 27:00
don't get. Like, because, yeah, maybe it was just like, well, he's not my patient, so not gonna put the effort right, I don't know. Yeah,

Scott Benner 27:06
I've had people on here before. There's people listening right now, who I've spoken to on the phone for 45 minutes, and they've woken up the next day with a flat graph, yeah, like, so, I mean, how long was your doctor's appointment? Oh,

Anthony 27:19
I don't know. Nah, they're normally 15 minutes, but it was a lot longer he made. The longer one for me, I should have done even, uh, maybe an hour. I don't know. I don't

Scott Benner 27:27
know. I feel like I could do it. Is what I'm saying. I feel not just me, by the way, by the way, this is for those of you on Reddit who are like, he's so cocky, I don't just mean me. I feel like other I feel like other people could do it too, yeah,

Anthony 27:38
someone maybe with like, years of medical training should be, should

Scott Benner 27:43
be able to do I am a guy like, who just, like, spent five minutes telling you that I got a Sri Lankan pygmy lizard and I'm trying to take care of it. Like, yeah, you might not want to come to me for it, you know what I mean? But like, I'd like to explain to the very touchy people who live in the world that, like, just because I'm explaining how I feel doesn't mean I'm cocky. I'm trying to give you a reasonable look into how I feel, and it's not based on nothingness. Listen to Anthony, I saved him. Okay, definitely, absolutely, I was using the word save to be funny, but if you want to agree with it, I'm going with it. Yeah, I don't know like I it just doesn't seem right to me. But nevertheless, so you basically get your diagnosis, you get your meds, they sliding scale, you you go out, find the podcast, you're like, well, that's not how I'm going to do this. I'm going to do it this way. And now, three years later, your a 1c are where usually, well,

Anthony 28:31
the actual blood tests always come back in the fives, but my Dexcom always does it in the sixes. I don't think I think the six is more accurate. I think something's making my my actual a 1c less than it is, but either way, it's really good. Do

Scott Benner 28:45
you unconsciously do better before your blood draw? That happens to people?

Anthony 28:49
No, I don't think so. Okay, I don't think so. Yeah,

Scott Benner 28:54
Jenny explained it to me one time, like the the A 1c blood test is weighted towards, I think, most recent. So, yeah, sometimes people like, get super, like, type a about it, like, leading up to it and throw the the average off a little bit.

Anthony 29:09
Yeah, at one point my GP, a different GP, was concerned that I had like, a slightly low iron, and my a 1c was low, that it could mean that there was some, like, low level, like bleeding. But at the time I was I was booked for a scope for to test for celiac, okay, which ended up being negative, but he thought maybe might have been, that was your iron low. Well, it came back up by itself. It wasn't out of range low, but it was lower than the last test. If that makes sense, there's that

Scott Benner 29:39
GP doing a good job again, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. This

Anthony 29:43
is a different one. Now he's really good this. GP, yeah,

Scott Benner 29:45
no, that's awesome. Yeah, okay. Do you think it's possible you guys will ever adopt and name a baby after me?

Anthony 29:52
I'm not. I'm not sure Scott would be the name of choice. I'm afraid. No, I

Scott Benner 29:55
know it sucks. What could my name be? Where you're like, you know what? Let's go with it.

Anthony 29:59
I. Don't know. Hey, you're so

Scott Benner 30:02
young. You're like, Dude, I get no baby. Like, relax, yeah, I gotta gain 40 pounds and give up before we start doing like that

Anthony 30:14
exactly. I got enough of them at work, right? Like, Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 30:18
I guess that really does give you some perspective. Definitely. I can't imagine. How many kids at once are in that room? 22 holy crap. How old are they? From three to five in my room? Oh, it must just be like herding cats all day. Oh, yeah, absolutely, that's absolutely. So what made you want to come on the podcast and

Anthony 30:41
it just listening and hearing everyone's stories is always just just so helpful. Has helped me so much. So I just come on and share and my story can help people think, great. Oh,

Scott Benner 30:51
that's awesome. Thank you, yeah. Well, you stayed up late to do this, so we should, we should make the most checking your note here. So I somehow, and you somehow, got through all of this without telling me you think your diagnosis was from a tick bite.

Anthony 31:08
Yeah, yes, I didn't even get to that, did I? So obviously, like I said, I had the tick back and got sick, but I think that might have been what triggered it. Like, you know that, like a virus typically, is a trigger. I hadn't, can't think of any illness I had. Otherwise, I just got this tick virus, and no thing that might be what trigger this.

Scott Benner 31:29
What is the virus called from a tick bite? Do you know there's a bunch

Anthony 31:33
of different ones, so they didn't test for a specific one? I can't even remember the names, to be honest. But yeah, I just got these two tick bites on my head, and then I was getting like, fevers and just like, incredible nausea. And like, I really wanted to vomit, but nothing was coming. And all of my, like, previous places where I'd been bitten by a tick, swell up, swallowed up, and got really itchy, like a mosquito bite, it was really weird.

Scott Benner 31:57
Okay, Powassan, yeah, there's a whole bunch

Anthony 32:01
of different ones. Yeah, yeah,

Scott Benner 32:03
I'm watching chat GPT like, think about it right now. Some people don't like that. It's now thinking out loud in front of you, but I enjoy watching what it's thinking. It's going through so many different ones. It's very interesting. But you get bit by the tick, and then how much later after that are you thinking, gosh, I have diabetes. I struggled

Anthony 32:21
to remember the exact time, but I think it must have been, like, a couple of months later that I, like, actually booked to the appointment and got to the doctors. But like I said, I was worried at first that I had some more serious tick virus. Like Lyme disease is, like, super controversial in Australia, whether it's here or not, but they often talk about Lyme, like diseases and things like that, from ticks that had about three work. So I was like, What do I've got something like that, and that's why I'm just not feeling back to 100% at all. Right? Maybe

Scott Benner 32:51
you got run down and, and then your immune system kicked in and and kept going,

Anthony 32:56
yeah. I think that must have been what happened. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:59
So I'm gonna tell you that our friend says that there isn't a well established tick bite virus, in quotes syndrome in Australia, akin to like a tick borne encephalitis in Europe, or the Powassan virus in North America. In Australia, the medical focus of tick associated disease has historically centered on bacterial infections and toxin mediated effects that said, recent scientific investigations using next generation sequencing have revealed that Australian ticks harbor a diverse array of viral sequences, and then it goes on to explain them. That's crazy,

Anthony 33:34
yeah, they just don't really know much about them. Yeah, yeah, it's really something,

Scott Benner 33:38
okay. But still, you hear a lot of people getting some sort of virus, or getting an illness, or having even, I've had people on here that really swear that they've just kind of had, like, you know, something tragic happen to them, or, you know, shocking, I've heard about that. Yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting. But so you get ill and then you get type one a couple of months later, yeah, interesting. What are you talking about here with you got an ADHD diagnosis as well. When did that happen?

Anthony 34:05
So it took a while to actually go through and get the actual official diagnosis. So I got diagnosed last year, but it started after I was type one and the GP mentioned like, like this, you know, a big diagnosis. I can give you a referral to a psychologist, and if you're struggling, just let me know. And a couple of months later, I just was feeling really overwhelmed by it all, and just like that, it was just a lot to sort of process and having to do it every day. And I went as a psychologist, and she was about as good as the endocrinologist on the phone. She had me, like, breathing while I wash the dishes, and I don't really understand what else, but, yeah, but she sort of like, I don't know, didn't really look at the bigger picture, and just was talking about mindfulness, and that just wasn't working for me. And so eventually I just gave up the psychologist, and. Was like, Oh, whatever.

Scott Benner 35:00
So you went to a psychologist to talk to people, and she was to try to figure something out. And she's like, can you try deep breathing while you're doing the dishes? Yeah,

Anthony 35:08
talked about meditation. And I was like, I just can't concentrate while I'm meditating. Like, like, ADHD, right? Like, and she's like, oh, we'll try doing it while you're doing something, like washing the dishes. And I'm like, hardly ever wash the dishes. I'm procrastinating. She

Scott Benner 35:25
didn't pick up from any of this. She's like, I can't focus on the dishes and the meditation at the same time, and I don't really do the dishes because I tried to avoid the dishes. She

Anthony 35:33
Yeah, and I mentioned that, like, I felt a little bit like self conscious about my way after diagnosis, because I was, like, really skinny and like, people were like, like, someone said, like, like, Yeah, you look gone. Someone that just stuck with me that I look gone, and in my mind, I was like, Well, I don't look any different. Like, yeah, but she fixated on that a lot. That didn't really help with that. I don't know it wasn't for me, I guess so,

Scott Benner 36:00
you're around people friends, somebody says, Yeah, somebody uses the word gaunt, which you're like, Oh, awesome, yeah. And then you can't change. And

Anthony 36:07
looking back, it was true. Like, sure to blame this person. It was very true.

Scott Benner 36:11
But still, like, it stuck with you, yeah, yeah. And how so, like, does it come up in your mind? Is it every time you look in the mirror? Does it change how you eat? Like, does it have a lot of impact?

Anthony 36:23
No, no, it didn't change how I was eating or anything like that. I just started to just be conscious of like, well, that's, I don't even know how to describe it, hey, but I just felt like I didn't notice any, any physical difference. I only weighed myself after I figured out it was type one. I'm not one to weigh myself regularly, so I hadn't even realized I'd lost weight. And then I started well, like, if I didn't notice, is that just how I look all the time? Yeah,

Scott Benner 36:50
yeah. Does your partner mention it? Does he say, Hey, your body's different? Like,

Anthony 36:55
he noticed is but not noted. He didn't say I was going to like that, but he definitely noticed, noticed that after the fact as well, like, he's like, yeah, now that we like thinking about it, you just seem skinnier. But I thought it was just because you were so active at

Scott Benner 37:10
work, yeah, right. And then the weight didn't go back on after you were diagnosed.

Anthony 37:14
It did slowly, I think I gained over the sort of first six months of insulin, like five kilos or so, so maybe half of what I'd lost, but then I started going to gym and eating more. So now I've gained much past, not much, but like, past what I was pre diabetes as well, okay, in muscle and stuff. So yeah,

Scott Benner 37:37
all right. And how does the ADHD like eventually, when you figure out that that's the issue. What do you do about it?

Anthony 37:42
Yes, eventually it was my partner who was getting assessed. He, like years ago, talked to a GP about it, and the GP was like, Oh, if you have ADHD, then you would be able to sit still in my office. And so it sort of got dismay. But then his mum, just like casually mentioned, other doctors said that you had ADHD when you were a kid. Oh, he was like, Oh, thanks for telling me. So he was trying to, like, go through that, and I had to do an assessment for him. What's that assessment like? So it's just a whole bunch of questions on like, a scale of like, strongly agree to strongly disagree, of like, sit still on chairs. What else is there? Things like, well, losing track of what you're saying and stuff like that. And so I was just ticking all these boxes for him. And I was like, I did that one, I did that one. Oh, maybe I have this too.

Scott Benner 38:36
Oh, wow. So while you were helping him, you started thinking, this might be a thing I've got going on. Did they medicate that or what did they do? Yeah. So

Anthony 38:45
eventually, he started on medications first, and then when I eventually got, got into the psychiatrist, I started medications. What the end of last

Scott Benner 38:53
year? Okay, yeah. And what has that done for you? It's been,

Anthony 38:58
like, helped in ways I didn't even realize. Like, I feel like I'm like, way more proactive at work, like I didn't even realize I wasn't doing this, but I'm just able to sort of think ahead more, okay, I'm able to not great at doing that, the chores still, but much better than I was, like, the dishes aren't piling up, like the laundry just isn't sitting in the baskets all the time. Like it was, like it was just stuff like that wasn't happening. I have inattentive type. ADHD, okay, so I don't have so much the light bouncing around the room. Classic, what people think of ADHD,

Scott Benner 39:30
you have trouble planning ahead for things,

Anthony 39:33
yeah, just just in terms of focusing, because I was struggling to focus. I was just in the moment, trying to keep on top of what was happening right now. Okay,

Scott Benner 39:42
oh, I see. And what about like if I said to you, your room being your bedroom being messy? Does that bother you or not bother you?

Anthony 39:50
Yes, it would bother me, but I would just sit and you wouldn't do anything about to get up and pick up some clothes. I need to get up and just not do it. I just couldn't. And physically get up and do it is, yeah, it's like, executive function, they call it. It's like, sort of how your brain plans what it's going to do when

Scott Benner 40:09
you actually stood up to clean your room. Are you able to do it to completion? Do you have to, like, set up a process to get it accomplished? Like, how does that work? Yes,

Anthony 40:17
the performance and everything like that. It would not I wouldn't do it until there was some need. So I'd be looking for a shirt or something, and couldn't find a particular shirt. Then I would start picking things up, because I'm looking for the shirt, you know, until that moment, it would just be like extreme procrastination,

Scott Benner 40:35
okay, no matter what. Yeah, and so the outdoors job was probably awesome for you, because it kept changing. It absolutely, yeah, oh, I see. Okay, it kept changing. It's like, literally changes second by second, and you're always moving, always doing something you can't stop, or you're not doing the job. So it kind of overpowers that feeling, yeah,

Anthony 40:54
definitely. And Charco, in a similar way, has been really good for it, too. There's some more planning aspects involved, but especially because it's a Montessori center, it's like child LED. So we're just waiting, following what the child's doing, what their interest is. I can just sort of, I call it following my nose, like I'm not, not sort of like planning or focusing very well. I'm just doing what's in front

Scott Benner 41:18
of me. Is there other ADHD, through your family. Yes, my

Anthony 41:22
sister was recently diagnosed as well, and my parents have never been assessed, but me and my sister always say that they out they have it too.

Scott Benner 41:30
What do your parents do that make you feel that way? From England to Australia, I'm sorry. Move from England. No, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Anthony 41:41
My dad especially has, like, always been, like, very forgetful and like, things like that. But my mom's similar, similar to me, and just sort of loses, like, focus of what she's doing. But they've never, never been assessed or anything. I think it's just, like, a generational thing, isn't it?

Scott Benner 41:57
Yeah. I mean, listen, you made it this far. That's how we think. Yeah, I'm like, I'm 53 I only have to make it 20 more years. What am I doing? I'm gonna get involved with something else

Anthony 42:05
tired. So he's like, it's like, it was the point, right? Yeah,

Scott Benner 42:08
exactly. What medication Did they give

Anthony 42:12
you, as I'm a vivax, yeah, okay,

Scott Benner 42:14
is that heroin? What is that? I forget what

Anthony 42:18
that is. I think they're all like, related to, like, met on the methamphetamines, but I don't know exactly

Scott Benner 42:23
to the makers of Vyvanse. I don't think there's heroin in your medication. I

Anthony 42:27
don't know what it is. No, I don't think it's quite like that, is it? Yeah, I

Scott Benner 42:30
am finding out what's in it, though, because it is, like, basically getting you like, it's speeding you up, right?

Anthony 42:36
It's a it's a controlled substance and everything like that. But, yeah,

Scott Benner 42:40
is there any downside to it? No, there hasn't been,

Anthony 42:43
well, like, not on this. So I started, you know, increasing the doses lucky day. But then I got to a point where I felt like I couldn't get a sentence out without just stumbling over my words. It was just I was starting to go the other way and lose way more focus than you know what I had in the first place? Yeah, that's

Scott Benner 43:02
interesting, yeah. How long if you stopped taking it? How long until you were back to that?

Anthony 43:07
If I miss a day, I notice, like, I'll be listening I was listening to podcasts on the way to work. Like, why aren't I listening to it today? Like, why do I keep missing it? And I'm like, Ah, you're

Scott Benner 43:17
listening to me talk in your car. And you keep thinking to yourself, I'm not following this conversation.

Anthony 43:23
Yeah, oh, that's interesting, exactly. And the problem is, right? I take it in the morning, and it relies on my unmedicated brain remembering to take it.

Scott Benner 43:34
It's a bit of a dirty circle. You're caught in there. Yeah,

Anthony 43:36
yeah. It is a bit of a catch 22 right?

Scott Benner 43:40
So similar to an amphetamine, then, yeah, okay, yeah,

Anthony 43:44
it's a stimulant. That's the word the stimulant. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:47
Wow, interesting. Did your partner go on it as well? Yeah, he

Anthony 43:51
tried by vans, but he felt like it was just fading by the afternoon for him. So now he's on Dex. I don't know what Dex or dexamphetamine, right? Dexamphetamine, okay? Which is like a short acting once he has to take it throughout the day. Gotcha,

Scott Benner 44:06
I thought you're gonna say he just went to meth. I thought you're gonna say, but no, do your friends try to buy them from you? Some

Anthony 44:14
of them have joked about, I think, I think some of them would have

Scott Benner 44:20
like, I'm just trying to focus here. I gotta drive to work and these kids. So instead of reacting to the kids now at work, you're proactive about it,

Anthony 44:29
yeah, and stuff like, they call it like, responsible person for the afternoon and just planning, like, closing down the rooms and that sort of jobs and routine sort of stuff, I feel like it's helped a lot with, and I'm also studying as well, so it's definitely helped.

Scott Benner 44:46
I wonder what the opposite of ADHD is.

Anthony 44:48
Opposite of ADHD? I'm not sure, because when

Scott Benner 44:51
I'm in a room, like, if you put me in a room with four people and a radio show where three people were talking to each other, I'd. What everybody was talking about, and it's been like that my whole life, not at all like, Anthony's like, I don't know that experience. Thank you. Yet I'm a person who, like, I'm gonna get an email now somebody's gonna be like, Oh, Scott, you have ADHD. I listen to this podcast, and I know you do. Yeah, I don't think I do, but it's interesting. Like, because like, I like it is interesting. I like telling stories out of order. I think it's more engaging that way. Like I said to somebody the other day, they said, I'm so sorry. I felt like I was all over the place, like, while I was recording, I said, No, I took you in those directions, like, you didn't do that. I did that to me. It's like Pulp Fiction storytelling. And of course, this

Anthony 45:40
person, like, that's just the story. It's just, it is just all over the place. That's what it is. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:44
right, right, right. Like, and she, of course, this person is too young to have ever seen Pulp Fiction. It made me upset. I told her about that. I've never seen it either. Sorry. No, it's fine. But in my mind, John Travolta is alive. He's dead, and he's alive again in the storytelling. And you have to be able to figure out that, like, there's different story lines happening, and you're in different timelines in those storylines, yeah? And I have no trouble with that, and I think that's interesting. So I do that with the podcast. Like I take you somewhere, then I bring you back, and then I take you somewhere else, and we go backwards again. I just find it more interesting than speaking linearly about things,

Anthony 46:18
because, yeah, interesting, doesn't that? Yeah, yeah. I don't

Scott Benner 46:22
want your story to feel like you're reading from a bullet list of like, here's what happened to me over the last three years.

Anthony 46:27
Yeah, no, that's all. That wouldn't be interesting, would it? Yeah, I don't think anyone would listen to

Scott Benner 46:32
that. No, no, it would be terrifying. You just be like, oh God. Like, I want to be better, but I don't want it badly enough to listen to this. To the last thing on your list that I'm endlessly interested in, because I do have a feeling like everyone in your generation wants to have something it's like, Oh, finally, I was diagnosed with something awesome. I can't wait to put it in my profile. What do you mean a possible autism diagnosis?

Anthony 46:56
Yeah. So when I sent you the email, I just left my first psychiatrist appointment after getting their ADHD diagnosis. Okay? And part of the assessment, I guess it also asks some questions that relate to autism. And so as she's going through, she said, Oh, it looks like some of the questions you've answered have marked the autism as well. So we might do an autism assessment. And to be honest, at the time, I thought, yeah, like, that's right, that makes sense. Like, I thought that that might be the case. In the end, she hasn't. Since I've been back to the psychiatry, she hasn't mentioned it again, and I've not brought it up because I don't really see, like, the purpose of a diagnosis for me personally, like ADHD had the purpose of the medication, yeah, but there's nothing like that. Specifically for autism,

Scott Benner 47:48
it's funny, like, I realize I don't understand the entire spectrum of autism. I don't understand the entire spectrum of anything. But like, you know, I don't understand the entire spectrum of it. But like, I've been talking to you for an hour now, and yeah, if at the end of this hour, somebody would have said, By the way, we think Anthony has autism, I'd go not the way I understand that he does. Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, would it? How would it change your life if you were, like, on some thin line at the end of us of a spectrum, you know what I mean?

Anthony 48:16
Yeah, that's sort of why I haven't really pursued the diagnosis, but helping me sort of understand, like myself, I think, has helped and like, yeah, in this conversation, like, you wouldn't be able to tell I'm autistic, but it's very like, situational for me. I think if I were at the shops and it was like, loud and it was beeping and everything that's at the shops, and you're the cashier, you might be able to tell, like things like that, or if like you said, you could follow that, like that conversation between multiple people. I've never been like able to follow group conversations. Yeah, all through high school, I was no of just not really talking much at lunch and things like that, because I just sort of would zone out and sort of just the overwhelm of all the noise and lots of people talking at once. Does it impact your life? Poorly? It hasn't, in some ways. Yeah, I think it like things take more of a toll than they otherwise would. Now I'm like very deliberate to try not to have more than one thing, social thing happening in the on the weekend, on any given weekend, you know? Okay, I try not to, like, see one group of friends on Saturday and see another group of friends on the Sunday, because I'll just be exhausted for the rest of the week. I'll just be feeling really like, Oh, I'm feeling so low. Yeah. And then I realized, oh, yeah, busy

Scott Benner 49:41
weekend. Do you feel introverted or no? Yeah, definitely feel

Anthony 49:45
introverted, but I can come across as extroverted, like in some situations, like if I sort of make myself do it for some reason working, if I'm working, it's easier to just be bubbly, like I've done I've worked in customer service and and obviously. Working with kids now I can be out there and stuff like that at work, right? Yeah, it's

Scott Benner 50:06
interesting, because

Anthony 50:07
it's interesting. But you

Scott Benner 50:09
look at people on their social media and it's like, forever, they're like, Oh, that's my trauma, that's my autism, that's my anxiety, that's how I'm like, oh my god, you guys. Like, maybe you're just quiet and you just don't like loud noises. Like, why? We gotta call it something. But I know that's just me being old, so

Anthony 50:25
I get that. I think it's like, like, like, growing up without knowing it. And the same with ADHD too. It's sort of, you sort of start to feel like, well, why can't I just do that? Like, why can't I just talk to people in a group, why can't I just pick up stuff off my floor in my room? Why can't I just do my homework like everyone else does that? What's wrong with me? And then having the this is label and be like, it's not you're just lazy, it's not you're just dumb. It's Oh, you actually have something that's different in your brain that's making it out of you. You know, that's,

Scott Benner 51:01
yeah, well, I appreciate that. I take that point, like, strongly, because I will even I'll tell you, like my kids, like, I'll tell them, like, Hey, listen when I was a kid that was just a dumb person, or, like, you know, when I when I was a kid that was just a lazy person, or when I was a kid that was just the this person or that. So maybe even understanding it is for you, not so much for fixing it, because maybe there is no fixing who you are, like, but yeah,

Anthony 51:24
definitely, especially with like, the autism. So obviously the ADHD has the medications, but I think the main thing for the autism is just understanding it yourself, and that's why I haven't really saw a diagnosis, and I've talked to it a little bit, to the psychiatrist about if I haven't really saw particularly therapy for it, because the best thing for me has just been to be like, No, you just have to be conscious about how you look after yourself. Like,

Scott Benner 51:47
yeah, right. And that is valuable for you, especially because you've taken the Vyvanse, you've taken insulin. Like you do need to be on top of those things, yeah, yeah, exactly. But so many people come on and talk about like, ADHD or anxiety, and they also have type one in their lives. Like, yeah, I genuinely don't, like, obviously, I don't know anything. I just, I bought this microphone, like, a decade ago, I'd have to go start another podcast and talk to a bunch of people who have no autoimmune in their life, and ask them if they see a bunch of anxiety in their and stuff. But, but it feels, it just feels like either everyone's anxious, or this maybe lives around autoimmunity somehow,

Anthony 52:25
yeah, I do. I do wonder if it's related, hey, and there has, there's been sort of demonstrated relationship with like me, with ADHD and autism, and with Ehlers, danlos and things like that. And I hear a lot of that on the podcast as well around what I mean. So I wonder if it's not just, yeah, no,

Scott Benner 52:43
plenty of, plenty of y'all got the, like, super stretchy joints and the pain in your like places, and it's not always. Ra never

Anthony 52:49
been diagnosed with anything, and when I tried to bring it up with a doctor, I just got the whole sort of, you're young and healthy, but I've always had, like, creaky, achy joints, and I can overextend, sort of my knees and my fingers a little bit. So, yeah, I do wonder if I've got it. No.

Scott Benner 53:04
Arden has that for sure. She can kind of stretch in ways she can even my son, like, you know, throws a baseball like, very fast. And when you look at how it happens, like, in slow motion, it's because his body extends in ways that, like, I don't think other people's do, you know, listen in the end, Anthony, like, there ain't nothing you're gonna do about it. Like, this is just how it is. Like, there's, this is the modern version of being, you know, born with one leg that's an inch shorter than the other one. Like, you just gotta keep going, you know, there's, yeah, exactly, yeah. No one's gonna come along and, like, flip a switch or give you a pill and be like, Oh, it's all fixed Exactly. Maybe they will one day, like, I mean, that'd be awesome. Like, if one day they could just plug you into a computer and be like, like, oh, that works a little too much that way. This a little too much this way. And, like, throw some sliders around and fix it up for you. But, I mean, at the moment, I do take your point though, like, knowing has got to be comforting.

Anthony 53:55
Yeah, definitely, yeah. Definitely has helped. Just, just Yeah. And I definitely like, like, being diagnosed as an adult, you should go back and just re examine all of your life being like, oh, that's why that was I was like that in school, you know, like, is

Scott Benner 54:12
that why I was crying at that roller rink? And, well, yeah, I mean, there's, listen, it's very worth looking backwards, right? Like, to try to figure things like that out. Yeah, you know what made you upset? Or, you know, why did you treat somebody a certain way, or treat yourself a certain way? All right, I take your point like it's okay. You guys can keep labeling yourselves. It's all right with me, you talked me into it, Anthony, I wondered about the with you, with ADHD undiagnosed at some point, your partner in the same situation, then you're medicated. He's medicated. Has your relationship changed?

Anthony 54:46
Yeah, I think it has definitely. And with type one as well, I think we're both sort of more able to be more conscious and sort of more present with each other and how we work on our relationship and pre that. Hypnosis when I was obviously not feeling well. I just would come home from work and I would just lay on the couch and just just veg out and just watch TV, and we wouldn't really have much holiday time together. And I think that that sort of took a toll on the relationship a little bit, but being sort of medicated with the ADHD now, we're able to sort of talk about it more, and, like lots of ADHD sort of struggles, is, like, even noticing that there's a problem so stuff like that, we're able to sort of like, hey, we haven't, we haven't hung out much this week. Let's, let's play ball game, or let's watch something on telly. Or, yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 55:38
How about just with, like, your personalities, like, because at some point, if you're just, like, jumping from thing to thing, or not really focused on stuff, and then now suddenly you are, are you? Is it almost like you're different people getting to know each other again?

Anthony 55:53
Yeah, in a way, yeah, yeah. We're able to ADHD. People with ADHD are, like, infamous for just jumping from hobby to hobby to hobby, and not putting any sort of like, actual like effort into maintaining one of them. But we've been able to sort of like, actually work on like interests and find new ones together. We've both gotten really into board games together, so we've been doing that a lot Nice.

Scott Benner 56:16
Yeah, that's awesome. Cool. You guys think you'll get married? Yeah, we're getting married in July. Oh, for my birthday, you're saying on the 31st Oh, could you move it to the 12th and say it was for my birthday? That's awesome. Congratulations. That's lovely. Yeah. What does he do for a living? He has just

Anthony 56:34
started working at a new job. He works in bar housing now.

Scott Benner 56:38
Okay, you guys have a place together? Yeah? Yeah, we got a place together. Oh, nice. That's lovely. Look at you right now you can have the hell that we, all the rest of us, have, after you

Anthony 56:47
get married. That'd be nice.

Scott Benner 56:50
Hey, listen, it took decades to get that right now, you go ahead out there and be miserable with the rest

Anthony 56:57
of us. That's it. We fought for that ride.

Scott Benner 57:02
Enjoy it. You're gonna love it. Super awesome. Last night, my wife laid down next to me and said, rub my calf. Then she flipped over and went other one. And I was like, Oh, awesome. This is great.

Anthony 57:16
Yeah, that's That's it married life. My gosh,

Scott Benner 57:20
is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to there was

Anthony 57:23
one more thing that I didn't get with the diagnosis story that I don't think I've heard on the podcast, okay yet, but for like, weeks before I was diagnosed, the toilet was just growing mold, just we cleaned it like, like, every week, and then straight away it would just be black again. And we're like, what's happening with this toilet? Like, do we need to get a plumber in? Like, and we live in in Queensland, Australia, it's very humid, and mold is just a fact of life here, right? But it was just relentless. And after I started insulin, it just stopped. Yeah, because

Scott Benner 57:58
you were putting glucose into the toilet, yeah, yeah, because they're just feeding it wasn't I like, Yeah, I'll make my own petri dish. Yeah, yeah. People

Anthony 58:07
ask me about symptoms, and I Well, oh yeah.

Scott Benner 58:09
Nobody's ever I guaranteed it. Now that you said that, people are going to start talking about it all the time. Yeah.

Anthony 58:15
I've just never, not one that I've never heard. Hey, I

Scott Benner 58:18
wonder if anybody's ever said that before. I mean, I feel like they haven't. It's interesting. Yeah, you were creating your own, like, like, little petri dish in there, yeah, and the sugar was feeding the bacteria and the mold, and that was supposed to happening. Oh, that's and how long do you think that went on for

Anthony 58:33
bleaching it and, like, scrubbing it, and we tried everything, and then it would just back again in a couple of days. Yeah, I'm glad

Scott Benner 58:40
you cleaned it, because there was part of me that thought, like, before the ADHD meds, they were probably like, it grew out like a like, a mountain out of the top of it. We just peed around it.

Anthony 58:50
Yeah, well, I think, I think growing things in the toilet, sort of the urgency of over the procrastination, we're able to clean it.

Scott Benner 58:59
That's so crazy, because there's like, all kinds of, like, bacteria and microorganisms growing in there, and you're feeding it with the sugar and like, oh, that's disgusting. When you really think about it, it's horrible. Can we call your episode extra dirty toilet? Also, let's see high blood sugar leads to sugar in the urine. Obviously, we know that sugar is a nutrient source can serve as a substrate for the growth of various microorganisms, including bacteria and fungus. Oh,

Anthony 59:30
fun, yeah, lovely, isn't it? Yeah. You

Scott Benner 59:34
ever heard that one story where the adult says that the way her mom figured out she was like a baby when she was diagnosed, they found her drinking out of the toilet. I did, yeah, I bet you were thinking, thank God I didn't drink out of my toilet. Yeah, definitely,

Anthony 59:47
definitely, not going anywhere near that. But I'd rather be growing mold and bacteria in the toilet than drinking yeast infection and in the body, right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:58
I mean, that's not a tough. Sophie's Choice there, I definitely would pick the dirty toilet over the drinking from the toilet. You know, what a way to illustrate that what the thirst must be like when you take a person who can't ask for a drink, seeks it out like that. You know,

Anthony 1:00:13
that's what it's like. And I thought I was doing great. I was like, Look at me. I'm like, bringing all of this water with me to work. And I had, like, a camel back and massive, like, bottle. I

Scott Benner 1:00:23
wonder how many undiagnosed type ones have a giant water bottle in their cabinet that they don't use anymore because they were they're just like, Oh, I'm finally drinking the water. They tell me about this is great. God, all right, well, I'm gonna let you go to sleep, because I know it's like one o'clock in the morning there, and I appreciate you doing this very much. I love it be great. Thank you. Yeah, no, I love it when, when you guys from Australia, come on, it's, it's so good. You just have a different vibe that I really enjoy. So thank you definitely. Thank you. No, it's my pleasure. It really is. Hold on one second for

me. You today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g7 and the Dexcom g7 warms up in just 30 minutes. Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox,

the podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by tandem diabetes care. Learn more about tandems, newest automated insulin delivery system, tandem Moby, with control iq plus technology at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox there are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox podcast.com Hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If this is your first time listening to the Juicebox Podcast and you'd like to hear more, download Apple podcasts or Spotify, really, any audio app at all, look for the Juicebox Podcast and follow or subscribe. We put out new content every day that you'll enjoy. Want to learn more about your diabetes management. Go to Juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and look for bold beginnings, the diabetes Pro Tip series and much more. This podcast is full of collections and series of information that will help you to live better with insulin. Hey, what's up, everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better, and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way recording doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you, wrong wayrecording.com, you got a podcast? You want somebody to edit it? You want rob you?

Please support the sponsors

---

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#1547 Life Stages

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

Kelly returns—this time as a mom. Her son now has T1D too, and they face it head-on together.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Here we are back together again, friends for another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Kelly 0:14
My name is Kelly. I am a mom to three kids. I'm type one diabetic, and my son is now officially type one diabetic as well. As of about a month ago,

Scott Benner 0:28
when I created the defining diabetes series, I pictured a dictionary in my mind to help you understand key terms that shape type one diabetes management. Along with Jenny Smith, who, of course, is an experienced diabetes educator. We break down concepts like basal, time and range, insulin on board and much more. This series must have 70 short episodes in it. We have to take the jargon out of the jargon so that you can focus on what really matters, living confidently and staying healthy. You can't do these things if you don't know what they mean. Go get your diabetes defined. Juicebox podcast.com, go up in the menu and click on series. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. The show you're about to listen to is sponsored by the ever since 365 the ever since 365 has exceptional accuracy over one year, and is the most accurate CGM in the low range that you can get ever since cgm.com/juicebox this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is brought to you by my favorite diabetes organization, touched by type one. Please take a moment to learn more about them. At touched by type one.org on Facebook and Instagram. Touched by type one.org check out their many programs, their annual conference awareness campaign, their D box program, dancing for diabetes. They have a dance program for local kids, a golf night and so much more touched by type one.org. You're looking to help or you want to see people helping people with type one. You want touched by type one.org. The episode you're about to listen to is sponsored by tandem Moby, the impressively small insulin pump. Tandem Moby features tandems newest algorithm control, iq plus technology. It's designed for greater discretion, more freedom and improved time and range. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox

Kelly 2:32
My name is Kelly. I am a mom to three kids. I'm type one diabetic, and my son is now officially type one diabetic as well as of about a month ago.

Scott Benner 2:44
Okay, can we tell people the episode you were on previously? Yeah,

Kelly 2:47
but I couldn't tell you what it's called or what number it is. Seriously, yeah. Sorry, I can't go back and listen to it. You've never heard it. I have not and you have no idea what it was called. You know what it was called? Bad reviews. Oh, okay, look at you see, yeah, yeah. I just had to wreck my brain a little

Scott Benner 3:05
episode. 1213, bad reviews. I will read you the synopsis. Kelly has type one diabetes in a son with two antibodies. Oh, interesting. Well, now we're back to find out more. So those two antibodies. What happened to them? Okay, so

Kelly 3:22
that would have been about two and a half years ago. He was two and a half. We found two antibodies, and we watched them in agony, waiting for the day when we were gonna finally be able to start insulin. And now the day is finally

Scott Benner 3:36
here. How long ago did he begin using insulin, using it regularly,

Kelly 3:41
more than just like because originally our instructions were, if he's over 300 for three hours, give him half a unit to bring him back and then as of the very, very end of February. So a little over a month ago, he was on Lantis and injecting every meal. So

Scott Benner 4:00
how long did the over 300 for certain amount of time? Half unit thing? How long did that go on for? So

Kelly 4:07
those were our instructions for two and a half years, and we only had to do it a handful of times. He didn't like stay above 300 for more than a couple of hours almost ever. I think there was maybe three or four times total that we ever gave him any injection in those in the those two and a half years. Yeah, so

Scott Benner 4:26
for and how old is he today? He's five, five. So for two and a half years, you're just watching and waiting. And is he wearing a CGM? Yep,

Kelly 4:35
we were lucky. Um, the doctor, the pediatric endocrinologist that we connected him with prescribed him a CGM right away. Basically, hey, when we find antibodies, usually the littler the kid is, the quicker they develop into type one. So he wanted to get him on a on a Dexcom right away. We put it on him, and he has now worn a Dexcom longer in his life than he has not. But he just now started on insulin like a. Month ago,

Scott Benner 5:00
I'm gonna go a weird way on this for a second. So let's all pretend together that a magic man comes up to you and says, in two and a half years, you're going to get cancer. What's it like living for two and a half years waiting for the thing to happen

Kelly 5:17
when you talk about cancer. I'm not sure how to answer that, but I'm

Scott Benner 5:22
trying to put it in other people. Like, everybody here has type one diabetes, like, so, like, what I'm trying to say is, like, imagine, for anything else, you're gonna have shingles two and a half years from now, it's really gonna hurt. Like, you know, like, two and a half years from now, your house is gonna burn down. Two and a half years from now, your car is gonna stop running, and you're not gonna be able to afford a new one. Like, there's this thing coming in two and a half years, and you have a crystal ball for it. Like, what is the living in the crystal ball time? Like, it was

Kelly 5:49
miserable. And I think most of the misery that we experienced was that we didn't know when it was going to come. So we knew it was coming. We knew it absolutely was coming. And, you know, two and a half years ago we were told he's little, so it's probably going to be quick. So in my mind, that was in within a couple of months. And then we had two and a half years of watching his blood sugars, you know, hit 350 come back down to 60. And like, I mean, just the roller coaster. And there was, to my knowledge and to everything that I have figured out and researched, which is probably limited, there's really nothing we could have done about it at this point.

Scott Benner 6:27
Did you hear about teas yield and wonder about it? Yes,

Kelly 6:31
he was too little for it. I think he still is. But I also don't know that I would have gone for it. It was offered kind of to us through trial net. They asked, like, hey, if we can give it to you, do you want it? And I thought, we thought about it. I talked it over with my husband, and we decided on No, because these two and a half years have been hell like I don't. I don't want to live in this when's it coming, watching it and not being able to do anything about it like I have been ready for, we'll say, two of those two and a half years, to finally just be able to take the reins and deal with it. Whereas in the last two and a half years, it's been watching him roller coaster and seeing like the toll that it takes on his behavior, even like delaying that even more, potentially keeping him in that stage even longer, is just not something I even wanted to entertain like I've been wanting him to basically get to float full blown type one, so I could take over and manage better than what his body has been doing for the last two and a half years.

Scott Benner 7:32
How many times do you think he saw 300 in that time? Oh

Kelly 7:36
God, like I would say, almost every day,

Scott Benner 7:40
wow. So every day, his blood sugar shot the 300 and then it came back down.

Kelly 7:45
It would come back down really quickly. I mean, within an hour or less. But, yeah, he was hitting 300 almost every day for two and a half years.

Scott Benner 7:53
It was meals that did that, yeah. And his behavior changed, like, erratically,

Kelly 7:59
pretty much, yeah. I mean, even, I mean, it's hard because he's he's gotten older too, but in the last couple of months, since we've started regulating and kind of bringing it back into what I would expect would be more normal for a five year old. I mean, his behavior is night and day from what it had been for since he was two, and again, he was two, so I mean, some of that is just normal toddler behavior, but you could see it, and it wasn't necessarily just when he was hit 300 but like the roller coaster that he's been on for the last two and a half years. I mean, that it's it's been hard, I think on him, it's definitely been hard on us. Yeah,

Scott Benner 8:36
just the jerking up and down of the number is the instability and so the anticipation, in hindsight, now, the anticipation was worse than the reality of just managing diabetes every day. Absolutely.

Kelly 8:49
If I could have known, hey, in two and a half years, in, you know, February of 2025, he will have type one, I would have been like, yeah, okay, cool, whatever. But it was the not knowing when it was finally gonna come. It's knowing that it's coming and not knowing when it's coming that was really challenging.

Scott Benner 9:08
Yeah, so the crystal ball guy said, Look, two years from now, your kid's gonna get type one, sorry to tell you, but he's not gonna go 303 times a day, up and down. You would've said, All right, you think you would've been able to just live your life for two years and then prep for that time. Probably not just the anticipation, but it's the consistent hourly whack a mole that you're playing. Yeah,

Kelly 9:27
yeah. I mean, I'm glad that he was on a Dexcom. We never end up having to, you know, go to the hospital or be in DKA or any of that, and that's great. But the watching it and just knowing what was happening and not being able to do anything about it was really, really taxing, okay?

Scott Benner 9:44
And taxing. How, like you said, it was hard on you guys like you and your husband. I imagine you mean, this episode is sponsored by tandem Diabetes Care, and today I'm going to tell you about tandems, newest pump and algorithm, the tandem mobi system with control iq plus technology. Property features auto Bolus which can cover missed meal boluses and help prevent hyperglycemia. It has a dedicated sleep activity setting and is controlled from your personal iPhone. Tandem will help you to check your benefits today through my link, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, this is going to help you to get started with tandem, smallest pump yet that's powered by its best algorithm ever control iq plus technology helps to keep blood sugars in range by predicting glucose levels 30 minutes ahead, and it adjusts insulin accordingly. You can wear the tandem Moby in a number of ways. Wear it on body with a patch like adhesive sleeve that is sold separately, clip it discreetly to your clothing, or slip it into your pocket. Head. Now to my link, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, to check out your benefits and get started today, when you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, is the first thing you think about. I love that I have to change it all the time. I love the warm up period every time I have to change it. I love that when I bump into a door frame, sometimes it gets ripped off. I love that the adhesive kind of gets mushy sometimes when I sweat and falls off. No, these are not the things that you love about a CGM. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 the only CGM that you only have to put on once a year, and the only CGM that won't give you any of those problems the ever sense. 365 is the only one year CGM designed to minimize the vice frustration. It has exceptional accuracy for one year with almost no false alarms from compression lows while you're sleeping, you can manage your diabetes instead of your CGM with the ever since 365 learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM,

Kelly 11:54
yeah, I mean, because I'm type one also, so like, I know how crappy he's feeling when he's hitting 300 And then an hour later, he's 60, and then he's back up to 200 without even us treating it. Half the time, it's just his body not responding to anything properly for the last

Scott Benner 12:11
while, you couldn't Pre Bolus anything, right? No, we

Kelly 12:16
still don't. Actually, he's a really, really unreliable eater, so we actually still are not, but we, I mean, beforehand, he wasn't on any insulin really at all, until, like, a month and a half ago.

Scott Benner 12:27
Like, my question revolves around this idea, so if you stop the spike from ever happening, then his body wouldn't attack the spike. Because, I guess the worry was, if you gave him insulin, his body was also giving insulin, it would make him lower, too low, right, right? I found myself wondering, like, if you could have stopped the high, would that have quelled the amount of natural insulin he got? Yeah, I

Kelly 12:50
wondered that too, and I had actually brought it up to multiple different doctors. We have a doctor, a pediatric endocrinologist, locally that we see, and I've been pretty happy with, you know, the the advice that we've gotten from him, and I hear from the doctors with the trial net, and I've spoken with a few of them, and kind of just asked them, like, picking their brains, like, what can we do? Like, this is awful, and they're, I mean, basically across the board is just, just wait it'll come. And, I mean, it did eventually. You could see, you know, in I think two months he went from, I think 5.7 a 1c to 6.7 a 1c like, there was a very drastic like, Okay, it's time, right? Like, the fact that there's nothing to do in the in between. Like, I hope that's coming eventually for the people who are found really early on, like, like, in stage two or stage one, I hope that eventually there is something to treat. I don't know.

Scott Benner 13:46
Do you feel like the doctor telling you it's coming ignores the psychological stuff, though? How do you mean, like, well, for him, for your son's like, you know, behaviorally, or how he just felt, or how you knew he felt, and probably the guilt that you found from that, like, doesn't that all just kind of like, doesn't that answer just dismiss all of that?

Kelly 14:07
Yeah. Definitely felt that way. Yeah. It was definitely very validating. Like, with trial net, when he finally failed his oral glucose tolerance test, he finally failed it. And I was like, finally. Because half the time we would go in and I would see it, you know, at home, especially, what on the Dexcom. I would watch the Dexcom, and he would spike, and then he would come back down. He would spike, and he would come back down. But then we'd go to his glucose tolerance test, and it was like, he'd hit, like 160 and then come back down at his two hour mark, or whatever it is, he'd be like, 110 and they're like, oh, look, he's doing fine. And I'm like, No, he's not. Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:43
that's my point. Is, I don't think they don't care about it, right? They're not paying attention to it, like it's not what they're worried about. You know, I just interviewed somebody yesterday that, you know, is an RN, whose child was diagnosed, and, you know, had that, that moment where she realized actually she's a physician assistant. Excuse me, where she realized, like, Wow, all the people I work with don't know anything about type one diabetes, and we help people with type one diabetes every day, like that vibe and so, like, not that the doctor's ignoring something, but almost like they don't even know to be concerned about it. But you had a a unique experience where you had type one, you have type one, so then you know what's happening to your son while this is going on? Right? Yeah, and that, that was probably an extra, I don't know. Like, what was it guilt or anger or frustration? What did, what did it do for you just

Kelly 15:32
both, like, I think it was a little bit of guilt early on. I don't know that. I feel a lot of that now. I mean, every now and then it'll ping and be like, Hey, you should feel like about this. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And then, but I mean, most of it is just, like, sympathy, like, I know how bad you're feeling. I want to handle this for you. I want to, I want to make it better, right? And there's, there's just, you know, everyone and their dog is telling me, hey, there's nothing you can do. Just watch it and wait. And I'm like, Are you sure? Like, you're super sure there's nothing we can do. Yeah, I just, there's got to be something. And there's, there's not, I mean, ever I asked them, like, Hey, can we get them started on a long acting, maybe curb some of these spam and they'll still happen. They're like, No, he's, you know, he's waking up in the 90s. He's waking up in the in the his fasting numbers are in, you know, the low hundreds. And I'm like, I know, but like, so there's nothing, there's nothing we can do

Scott Benner 16:24
at all. Are you sure? Hello, anyone? It's tough, and it went on for a long time, right? Two and a half years, a long, long ass time. Yeah,

Kelly 16:33
it was a very long time. It was a lot longer than I expected to So, oh,

Scott Benner 16:37
so you had a distance in your head, and so that probably made it worse, right?

Kelly 16:41
Yeah. I mean, when we initially got the call from the doctor, again, he said, the younger they are, the quicker they go into, you know, their full blown type one. And I don't know, like that that I as far as I know, there's not a gage of, like, how long the antibodies have been in somebody's body. So when they normally find them, are they two weeks from being diagnosed? Are they two years from being diagnosed? Or I don't, as far as I know, there's not a way to know. So he's like, hey, the younger they are, the quicker it's going to happen. So in my brain, and I didn't ask more questions, and maybe I should have, in my brain, I'm thinking, okay, so probably within, you know, a couple months, six months, and then time went on and it went on and it went on, and we're watching it on the Dexcom, and I'm like, when, when do we intervene? And it was, there was finally a moment where I was like, Okay, it's time. And the doctors agreed, you know, yeah, it's time, like, it's time to intervene. But it was awful just watching it, like, waiting for it to be time. If you

Scott Benner 17:37
could have planned this whole experience out, how would you prefer it to have gone? Are you happy that you learned about the auto antibodies? Yes,

Kelly 17:46
I'm so glad we know about it, and I've I've enjoyed like being part of trial net and seeing kind of how the different research can help. I almost wish we hadn't started on the Dexcom right away, or that we would have just worn it like once a month, I've been listening to alarms on my phone for his numbers for for years, and it's just, it would alarm me. I had it set 140 just so I could see what was happening. And it's it's being every hour, right? Like every hour it's 140 or higher, or then it's 250

Scott Benner 18:16
so the CGM as a diagnostic tool was terrific, but personally speaking, if it's going to go to 300 and come back in an hour, and I'm not doing anything about it anyway, knowing about it is maddening, not valuable

Kelly 18:30
in some cases, yes, I definitely like I'm glad we had it. I'm glad he had it on and we could see what was happening and we were learning from it. But I don't know. I think I wish that I would have just put it on him sometimes to catch eventually, what would happen, and not just watched it constantly,

Scott Benner 18:49
like once, maybe 10 days every month or so. Yeah,

Kelly 18:53
I see and by the time I brought that up, I had, you know, I said something to doctor. I said, I think I just want to put it on him once in a while. They're like, he's getting closer now he's getting Wait. You know, you can see, like it's trending, that he's going to be needing the insulin soon. So, yeah, now is not the time to do that.

Scott Benner 19:09
Okay, you figured out what you wanted to do too late. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 19:13
exactly.

Scott Benner 19:14
Okay, remind me other autoimmune in your family. Yes or No, no.

Kelly 19:19
I have have hypothyroid also, I assume it's Hashimotos, but I never looked into it. I don't know that it makes a difference for treatment that I know of, so I don't think so. We just I've never dug into it. My mom, I think, has some hypothyroidism, but there's not much else over there. And I guess on my dad's side, one of my uncles, has lupus. Usually forget about that. We're not close. But yeah, he does.

Scott Benner 19:43
Got you Well, we're gonna move on to the next part here, but I have to tell you, like, I am working very hard to shake this I listen to an interview before you and I got on. So I was doing, like, I was cleaning up in here, and, like, straightening out my desk, and like, you know, that kind of stuff. And, um. Like, listening to somebody who's I was interested in hearing from, and this person was interviewed by a bad interviewer, and it got, it got into my head. I was like, Oh my God. Like, is that what it sounds like when it's done that poorly? Now I'm like, super like, aware of it. Oh my god. Ask good questions. Really focused. But what made you want to come back onto the podcast? Do you think to yourself, like, well, there's an update here, or did you have an experience that you really want to, like, dig through

Kelly 20:29
mostly just an update? There are definitely things to talk about, but I think they'll just come up as they come up. I don't think I have anything you know at the forefront of my brain about what specifically I wanted to share

Scott Benner 20:41
this is very much about the transition from from stages for you, yeah, for the most part, yeah, okay, cool. Well, was it like a birthday party when this blood sugar finally went up, it didn't come back down again? Were you like, Woo, it's happening, or was it was there still some, like, sadness?

Kelly 20:55
There was like, I would say probably, like, two minutes or less of, like, Ash, it finally happened, but most of it was just very validating and almost celebration, which, like, sounds terrible to say, but I was just like, finally I can do something. Like I've been sitting on my hands for so long, like I was just ready. There's just relief,

Scott Benner 21:16
yeah, yeah. And now that all that anticipation is gone, and everything else, exactly Awesome? Well, I mean, awesome is the wrong word, but I'm, you know. Okay, so how long ago did this happen? This

Kelly 21:27
was between a month, a month and a half ago, so at the very let's see, in December, which was what four ish months ago was when we he failed back to back glucose tolerance tests with trial net. So we knew that it was time. And then we went to his Endo, and, like, a week later, because the doctor said, Hey, when's your next appointment with him? And I said, it's in February. And he shakes his head, and he goes, he is not gonna make it that long before needing his insulin. And I'm like, All right, sounds good. So we scheduled an appointment, you know, the next week, and we go in and he looks, pulls up his Dexcom and his reports, and he's like, Yeah, give him a half a unit every day with breakfast. And I'm like, okay, yeah. And especially, like, with having, you know, plenty of knowledge. For me. I thought that he would come out of like, okay, let's give him, like, a one to 30 carb ratio. Let's see what happens. Like, I thought there would at least be some sort of starting point, but he's just said, like, half a unit with breakfast. And I'm like, Uh, okay, so we did it for a couple of days, and honestly, like, it didn't help that much, because his body was still bringing him back down. It was slower than it had been previously, but it was still coming back down. And right after breakfast, he's at school, in preschool. I'm not trying to put all that on the teachers, like, this is the only time of day we're even going to give him instantly. He said only at breakfast, because those were his highest spikes, right? And I was like, I'm not going to do that. So I talked it over with a friend, and she was like, what if, you guys, you guys, you know, sending her his graphs every day? Like, what would you do here with all of my 20 years of type one? Like, I don't know what to do at this point. And she had a child who had been diagnosed within, like, the last year, so her her knowledge is a lot fresher. Like, what would you do? And she's like, Hey, okay, tackle lunch first, because he's also spiking pretty big with lunch. Tackle lunch, and then he'll be at home. So he's only at preschool for three hours, so she's like, tackle lunch first. Let's see what happens. So we did that for a little while, and then the more I thought about it, I actually stopped giving him any insulin at all, because what I realized was, if I control it too well with, you know, half a unit, a unit, two units of Humalog, it's gonna look like he doesn't need the basal that I know he needs. It's gonna look like he doesn't need a pump. He doesn't need good because I'm doing, you know, I I'm doing such a good job with, you know, micro dosing throughout the day, it's gonna look like he doesn't need anything. You

Scott Benner 24:06
felt like you needed to show bad reports to get the stuff you needed, you know. So you've had type one for 20 years. So you grew up through the time where, like, you wait for your doctor to change your settings, right? Yes, yeah. Do you have some of that, like feeling still, because I imagine, I know for you, you don't have it, but do you think it snuck back in a little bit like the oh, they're in charge. Did that feeling come back to you a little

Kelly 24:30
bit? A lot of my hesitation, I was like, okay, I can see. I think basal is going to be great for him. Give him some Lantus. Give him whatever it might be he was his overnight numbers were still looking really good, so we were worried. You know, if we give him Lantus and he drops say we need to go to the emergency room, he's not prescribed any Lantus, we can't not tell them that he has basal insulin. You

Scott Benner 24:55
actually had a fear that they would think you were treating him poorly, or something like. I

Kelly 25:00
was worried that if he ended up having a low we had to go to the, er, they're gonna, I mean, they're, who knows what they could do if you go in and say, Hey, I'm giving him my medication that's not prescribed to him, yeah. I mean, there's, there's too many things they can do at that point.

Scott Benner 25:13
You're trying to get your kid back from the state all this, right, yeah, was it not comfortable to go to the doctor and say that? Oh, I asked

Kelly 25:20
him, and he said, No, his overnight numbers still look fine. I think it would be okay. I had actually posted in the Juicebox Facebook page like, does anyone have any suggestions? Are there any because levemir was discontinued at this point, because we were looking for an insulin that didn't last as long that would help us throughout the day and not tank him overnight. Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:45
levemir might have worked really well for that, but they don't make that anymore.

Kelly 25:49
No, they don't really, jeez, that's what I was told. And that's Yeah. So it's discontinued, and we could not get it, so we ended up just backing off and basically not doing anything. We went to his appointment, what would have been like two months ish later, and I had given him a couple of, we'll call rescue doses of like Humalog to bring him down. Like, if his body was just not bringing him back down at all, I would give him some. But I was not treating his meals as I should, because I wanted to show the bad reports. Like, look, you need to prescribe him the medications that he needs. So we went to the doctor at the end of February, and he did kind of push back of the doctor did kind of push back a little bit and say, like, no, look, it's fine. And I pull up the clarity reports on my phone, and I said, Look at this, 60% of the day he's out of range. I had the range set like 70 to 140, and 60% of his day he was not in range. They said, You can't tell me that he's fine. He's not doing fine, isn't

Scott Benner 26:49
there? Almost an argument to be made to put him on a pump that has that you could set it a zero basal, and then just do a little basal sometimes, or like, and then not other times. Like, almost set up a pump, but run it manually. Does that make sense? You

Kelly 27:03
know, that's actually exactly what we did. Oh, look at me. Okay, good, yeah, so I brought that up, and I said, is I asked him for a pump in December? I said, Can we get the process started so that way, you know, when I probably have to fight insurance and wait for the companies to send everything out and all this while we're doing this whole process, basically, we have it before we really, really need it. He said, No, no, no, we don't need to do that with TRICARE. Won't give you any problems. And I was like, Okay, that was not the case. But really,

Scott Benner 27:34
that didn't work out like that. Everything didn't go the way it was supposed to.

Kelly 27:41
So he, I, you know, I brought it up again at the end of February. I said, Listen, look at his day. Yes, he's having some, some, you know, normalcy overnight. But even overnight it was, we'll say, like, maybe 3am the 6am that his numbers were fine overnight. So yes, if you were doing a finger stick, he was waking up at a great number, not the entire of the time. Yeah, exactly. And he would, he would pull up, like, the clarity, you know, report, and be like, Look, he's waking up at 110 and I'm like, I know, but can we look at the rest of the chart, please? If you see these other 20 hours in the day, those, those are the one I'm looking

Scott Benner 28:18
at. This is the endocrinologist. Yes, is this person still your child's endocrinologist? Yeah, actually,

Kelly 28:23
yeah, it's going okay. I definitely don't know that. I would suggest him to somebody who does not have knowledge about how to, like, push for the things that they want, or know what things that they want. But you know, when I pushed back and I said, Listen, like, Look at, look at the 60% of his day that is out of range. Like, we need to do something about this. I don't care about those three hours where he's in range. That's not enough, by the

Scott Benner 28:50
way. What a terrific review. If you know a lot about your disease state and you're comfortable pushing back on a doctor who doesn't this guy's for you, and if not, you probably should go to somebody who understands better. I mean, is that the review? Is that the review basically,

Kelly 29:03
yeah, I mean, at least, at least at the start. I mean, again, I genuinely think, like, at least a diagnosis, because that's the extent of my knowledge with him so far. I mean, we've been seeing him for almost three years now. But like, for actually handling type one, I think it's very like, basic, like, here, let me give you the don't die advice, and then eventually we'll build up on it. Because, I mean, he's told me, like, you know it, you know, if he was older and a much more reliable eater, I'd suggest pre Ebola thing. Like, he's telling me the things that he should kind of but he's, like, not giving all the information up front either? Yeah, he's

Scott Benner 29:42
not a great eater. But do you have you found a world where you Pre Bolus a little bit, then Bolus the rest after the food goes in. We have

Kelly 29:48
tried, but more of the issue beyond him not eating is that we can give him his plate and he will immediately stuff his face, or we can give him his plate. And he won't touch it for 20 minutes until everyone else is done and leaves the table, and then he'll decide it's time to eat. So even if I just Pre Bolus them, you know, half of the meal just wondering what he would eat, it's still way too much if he doesn't eat for 20 minutes after I serve it to him. Is he

Scott Benner 30:16
on a pump? Now he is, yes. I was gonna say, like, is he trying to avoid, like, injections by not eating or but that's not the

Kelly 30:23
case. No, no, he doesn't. I mean, he didn't ever care about the injections either. So gotcha,

Scott Benner 30:29
how much easier is it to have a child with type one diabetes when you have it yourself? I know you have to, like, look at other people and, like, kind of extrapolate their experiences and put them onto yours. But do you think it's a a huge benefit or not, or do you think there's places where it's not a benefit?

Kelly 30:46
I think both. I definitely have the knowledge. Because again, when we go to the endo and they're giving you the, hey, if he, if he goes below 80, treat him. And I'm like, Yeah, maybe. So they're giving you the don't die. And I'm coming in with way, way, way more knowledge. So, you know, in the in a, I think it was a month we were able to bring his a 1c when he started on insulin from 6.7 to 6.1 right, like, and I don't know that with the advice they gave, that would have been possible. So in that regard, I would say it's a positive. But I also think there's definitely negatives. It's definitely harder for me to at the moment where it's still very new, and very early on, I am focusing, like so much on him, and like getting his doses accurate and timed as well as we can that I sit down, I eat my meal, and I'm like, Oh, I'm 200 What did? Oh, I did. I did. I dosed him, but he didn't dose myself, right? So there's, there's a little bit of a learning curve, and trying to remember to do both of us now, which I think will, that'll, that'll fade away, and it'll be fine, but it's just real still early on, and making sure that we're handling everything. And then I'm a little bit worried about, like, tethering him to my choices for technology and whatever else, and knowing like, Okay, well, I know the tandem system. I know how this operates. So of course, he's going to use tandem, which he is, and so am I. But I'm worried that eventually there might be something better out there, but I, 20 years in, might be stuck in my ways and be like, No, I'm not doing that. So he's not doing that. So I'm a little bit worried that that's coming, or that that's already happening. I'm not sure you're

Scott Benner 32:30
worried that you're going to apply your biases to him and then he's going to get stuck with him. Yeah, I think that might be a good way to describe that. Yeah. You're not worried about the problems you've had throughout your life, having type one, like, do you find yourself, like, going, Oh God, I know what's going to happen to him in high school, because, you know this thing happened to me. Or, like, do you have those feelings?

Kelly 32:49
Not really, because I do feel like I'm more equipped to, like, watch out for those things.

Scott Benner 32:56
So you feel like there'll be experiences that help you be ready, not they're not causing you like doom and gloom. I definitely

Kelly 33:03
can't tell you like I am absolutely confident he will not go through it, because I don't think that's the case, but I think that, you know, I can at least watch out for them,

Scott Benner 33:12
right? At least maybe see him coming exactly. Yeah. And then, would you offer your your advice? Do you think, or do you think you'd sit back and direct it from a distance. Like, the other day, Arden said to me, she's like, I see you holding back your advice sometimes with us now that I'm older and, like, not just about diabetes, and I'm like, Well, yeah, I want you to have an experience and figure out what you think about this. Like, I don't want to just tell you what to think about it. And then I kind of watch to make sure that they don't get too far off the rails before, like, and if they do, then I'll pipe up maybe, and be like, Hey, have you considered this part of it? Do you know what I mean? Like, in your kids are younger, right?

Kelly 33:52
Yeah, my kids are five, seven and 10, so they're all still little. Yeah,

Scott Benner 33:57
you don't know this part of it yet. Like, where they like, where they start thinking by themselves, if you're thinking about it, like, because you thought about it with the diabetes stuff, like, well, I don't want to just tell them to do what I think, because maybe he'll think something different. But like, Wait till that starts happening with, like, personal stuff, and you're like, oh, like, you only mean like, like, interpersonal stuff, social things, politics, like, that kind of stuff, where you're like, wow, I think that's way off. But let me let you go for a while and see what happens here.

Kelly 34:24
Yeah, I'm worried about that a little bit with him, but I also think it's gonna depend so much on what his personality, you know, turns out to be, and how our relationship is. I mean, I'm never gonna be like, hands off with it, but I also I don't know whether I'll be like, hey, shape up. Do it this way, do it the right way, or if it'll be more like, hey, what do you think if we maybe get some different ideas about that? So

Scott Benner 34:47
you're telling me you need to maintain your relationship with your kids and check to make sure he's not going to be a different. Maybe if he's a different, you'll give him more advice.

Unknown Speaker 34:56
Exactly. That's my point.

Scott Benner 34:59
That's. That I was thinking, though, yeah, the ones who don't need it, you're like, oh, they'll be okay, which then, by the way, I think runs a different risk of making the kids feel abandoned, like nobody was interested in them. Yeah, there's no winning, raising children, by the way. Yeah, no,

Kelly 35:11
it's the worst, it's the worst, and it's the best, and yeah, there, yeah, I agree. You're

Scott Benner 35:16
not gonna win. You're just gonna mitigate problems. That's all. Everything you pick to mitigate the thing on the opposite side gets worse. Oh yeah, I'll

Speaker 1 35:24
still do it wrong. I'll just do whatever I do. It's fine. Good

Scott Benner 35:28
luck to all of you, as long as your kid's not on the news and you don't find yourself standing in front of the house one day going, I didn't think they would do that. I think you're kind of okay, yeah, nothing sadder, you know what I mean, that a parent going, I just never imagined. And I'm like, Yeah, apparently everyone that knew him thought it was gonna happen,

Unknown Speaker 35:45
everyone but mommy, it's

Scott Benner 35:46
fine, awesome. Oh my god. How long have you been using the tandem pump?

Kelly 35:53
I have probably had mine for, I would guess, well, at least five years, but I think it's been more like eight somewhere in there. You enjoy it? I like it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 36:04
yeah. Would you tell people tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, they should go there to find out more about it. That's exactly what I would do. Awesome. Kelly, thank you, but tell me what you like about it. So I like

Kelly 36:16
the algorithm a lot, and it's very user friendly. The algorithm works as long as you're setting the right so I like that.

Scott Benner 36:25
And the form factor. Do you think about the Moby? Or do you like the I'm assuming you have like the T Slim x2 or something.

Kelly 36:32
I do. I have the T slim and my son has Moby. Okay, I see one

Scott Benner 36:36
of each. Yep. All right. There you go. Check it out. I think pumps are obviously a very personal decision. And like, you know, I'm not saying like Kelly uses tandem Moby, you should use it, or, like, my daughter uses an Omnipod, so definitely use it. But there are pluses to all of them. I think there are minuses to all of them, and you got to figure out which one really fits you better. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And CGM dexcoms. Both of us are on

Kelly 37:01
Dexcom I am on the g6 and my son is on the g7

Scott Benner 37:06
interesting. Do you have an opinion between the two? I

Kelly 37:09
do not. I like, I mean, there's again, like you said, there's pluses and minuses to both. I like the look of the graph on the g6 a little better. But I also like the warm up time and the 12 hours at the end, whatever they call that, the

Scott Benner 37:22
extra time at the end, yeah. And kind of go like, Oh, it's expired, but I get 12 more hours. Yep, yeah, yeah. I see it helping Arden to change the device in a, I don't know, like when it's more convenient for her? Exactly. Yep. Same here. Gotcha. What grade is he in now? Is he in kindergarten yet? Nope, not yet. He's in preschool. He's still in preschool. Okay. How did the other kids handle him getting diabetes?

Kelly 37:45
I was a little worried that they would be jealous, like, we have jelly beans at school so he can have like, one or two if he starts to drop too low or whatever. And I was worried that the other kids would like, you know, side eye him or try to take them. But the entire class is like that. His phone will beep, and all the kids are like, Madden. You need a snack.

Scott Benner 38:05
It's probably like, awesome. So at school, it hasn't been an issue. How about at home? How about your children? I

Kelly 38:10
don't notice a whole lot. I think there in the last I mean, since it's been, again, like a month and a half, there's been, we'll say, more focus on my son. And I see that a little bit, my other kids seem like they need a little more attention, so we've been mitigating that a little bit. But for the most part, I don't think there's a whole lot going on yet. At least.

Scott Benner 38:30
Are you looking for things that you have in common with the other kids so that everybody can feel connected,

Kelly 38:34
definitely. So we actually each of my kids on like the day of the month that they were born. So like, my son was born on the ninth so like tonight, he gets to stay up late with my husband and I and spend time with the two of us, like with the other kids going to bed. And so we we've been giving them, like a little both of the other two kids, like a little bit extra time to give them more focus. So

Scott Benner 38:58
is this monthly? You do this? We do, yeah, yeah. So monthly on your birthday, the date, like, if I was born on the 12th, so every month on the 12th, you would jettison my brother and or sisters and be like, get away from here. This is Scott and mommy and daddy time, exactly.

Kelly 39:12
We put the other kids to bed, and then the one kid gets, you know, an hour, two hours, however long it ends up being. But they get sole focus. They get to be the only child for a couple of hours.

Scott Benner 39:23
Oh my god, I'm gonna ask you a question you shouldn't answer. I'm just gonna say upfront. I'm gonna ask you a question you shouldn't answer. Do you like hanging out with one of them more than the others? I plead the fifth.

Oh my god, just like I had a picture in my mind of you being like, oh, thank like, Oh, thank God, it's not this one.

Unknown Speaker 39:46
There are some days that we're like, No, not today, please.

Scott Benner 39:49
Kid is so boring.

Kelly 39:53
We let them pick like they get to kind of lead whatever they want to do on that day. And like, you know, some of the kids choose the. Same thing every time, and it's like, a month apart, so it's not, like, super tedious. But I'm like, we just did that last month and the month before and the month can we, can we play Uno?

Scott Benner 40:09
I want you to keep doing this till they're much older. Because, like, I want to know how you handle it when, like, the first time, the one kid's like, Yeah, I think we should, like, smoke weed tonight, don't you? And like, I mean, the other two, those, those steps are gone, mom, right? Like, let's do it. I would talk to your children about what they think the other ones are doing. Yeah, oh, my God. I bet you their minds race.

Speaker 1 40:31
You know what I mean? Yeah, I should, I should start keeping, like, a journal of it all so I can look back, yeah?

Scott Benner 40:36
Like, what did they think is happening? Like, when they're in their bed and they're like, Oh, they're out there. I know that's the fun one. They're probably, they're probably doing crack. They probably think you're leaving the house and like, racing cars down the street or something like that. My five year old, Scott, yeah, no, yeah, I think you'd be racing around with your five year old out in the street. It's like, it's late at night, nobody's out there. It's fine with

Unknown Speaker 40:56
mom and dad both, and the other two just, yeah, they're

Scott Benner 40:58
just in the house hanging out. Like but I'm saying, if you were a kid, wouldn't you imagine that? Probably,

Kelly 41:03
so yeah, like, they're probably doing so that, I think they were doing crack. But, you

Scott Benner 41:07
know, I probably went too far with that. If I'm a little kid, I'm upstairs going, like, all I bring to the table is Uno. Every week I use, like, you know, there's one kids like, they asked me what I want to do, and I can panic, and I say, uno. They know the other ones down there doing something cool.

Speaker 1 41:24
Usually they just, like, want to watch videos on YouTube. And I'm like, Really, this is, this is the best you could come up with. Come on, seriously,

Scott Benner 41:32
yeah, oh, Jesus Hannah. These kids got no imagination. Boy, if I had like, I'd be like, listen, we finally got rid of the other two. We all know they're an anchor, and now it's our time, right? And dad, I see it in your eyes. You hate those other ones, but not me. I would. I'd be such a little like, I got put in that situation. I'd be like, I know you've been waiting for Scott to come. Don't worry. Meanwhile, I'm so boring. I took one of those personality tests the other day, and Martin's like it said, Do you think other people think you're fun? And I was like, No. And Arden goes, you don't think other people think you're fun. I was like, I can't imagine. She goes, a lot of people like you. And I was like, now she's trying to talk me into changing my answer. Like, I'm like, Oh my god. Am I that wrong about like, am I wrong about all these one of the other questions was, do you enjoy making people laugh? So here, Kelly, do you enjoy making people laugh? No, I don't think I'm good at it. Okay, I'm good at it. Ask me if I enjoy it. Do you enjoy it? No, not really. I'm I'm just trying to make myself laugh. No, that's fair. If you laugh like, that's fine. I'm happy for you, but like, I'm not trying to make you laugh. I'm just saying what I think is fun or not about you. It's about myself. Well, that's what I ended up with when it was over. I was like, Oh my God. Like, it was like, we should not take these tests anymore. I don't like how they come out. It was one of those, like, I don't, I don't even know what they call them, but like, at the end, it gives you like a, I don't know what the hell it was. I don't pay a lot of attention.

Kelly 43:03
Was it like the one that gives you like the letters or something, or it gives you like a, like a,

Scott Benner 43:07
no, no, not the letters. Like you're the jester, you're the king, you're the I don't even know. Yeah, there's no way I would share with you what I like, what I was. Oh, you got to No, because when it popped up, I was embarrassed by it.

Speaker 1 43:20
I'm just gonna Google what all of them are, and then I'm just gonna guess.

Scott Benner 43:24
All right, well, hold on a second. I'll tell you what if you guess it. Alright. So what is it called? It's called archetypes. All right, I have them in front of me. Okay,

Speaker 1 43:33
wait, how many are there? Because I'm I don't know if I'm looking at the same one or not. It

Scott Benner 43:36
looks like there's like 10, maybe 11, nine. What are the 12 archetype patterns I only coming up with nine. The innocent represents purity and optimism. The Orphan desires connection and belonging. The hero seeks to prove worth through courageous acts. The caregiver motivated by a desire to protect and care for others. The Explorer craves freedom and authenticity, fearing getting trapped. The rebel yearns for revolution or change. The lover seeks intimacy and connection. Their creator strives to create enduring value, fearing mediocrity. The Jester embraces joy and humor, fearing boredom and boring others. The sage driven by the quest for truth, fearing being misled. The magician aims to make dreams come true, fearing unintended negative consequences. The ruler desires control and prosperity, fearing chaos and being overthrown. And somehow, this is not part of the ones. I think actually they probably just call it something different in the one she gave me, by the way, half of these you take online, you got to pay for at the end. Oh yeah, because I just read all those to you, and none of them were it. It wasn't the one. So now I'm going to do the next one.

Unknown Speaker 44:57
Swear to God, wouldn't it just be easier to say it then?

Scott Benner 44:59
It? No, because I am not going to say it. Yeah, maybe this one's it, the King, the warrior, the magician, the lover. My God, the internet sucks. Who made this? Listen, I'm just going to come out and say it. We shouldn't have let everybody use the internet. It should have just been, I don't know how we should have chosen who, but there can't be 17 different answers for one question.

Kelly 45:24
I don't know. Maybe you should try to ask chat GPT, because I feel like they probably know you by now. Maybe you could just ask them which archetype you are.

Scott Benner 45:31
See what they say. That's funny. I do that. Okay. Now the people who are like, you're ruining the world with chat GPT, the whole whole podcast is this about that? No, I hear you can cry babies. This will probably know

Unknown Speaker 45:44
it immediately. If it gets it right. Will you tell me? It's just

Scott Benner 45:47
gonna tell me to take a test. If it, if I say, hey, what archetype am I? It's gonna say, well, here's it looks like I was close, innocent, orphan, hero, caregiver, Explorer, rebel, King, lover, creator, jester, sage, magician.

Unknown Speaker 46:04
Wait, it's not the same list you gave me before. A little bit. So

Scott Benner 46:08
which one do you think I am? Anybody who's really listening knows the answer already, but go ahead, all right. Well,

Kelly 46:13
maybe that's not me. I put little stars down while I was typing what you said, and I put a little star by orphan and creator.

Scott Benner 46:20
Interesting. So I thought for sure when I got done it would be, like, caregiver, yeah? I thought about that one too. I thought, creator, maybe, you know what I mean, like, these were all ones that I was right there, the orphan one, like, I have, like, you know, I've been very open about being adopted, but like, I don't I'm not burdened by it constantly, so it probably doesn't come out in my answers. Yeah, but that was not. None of those were correct. And then you go into your level two, right where you're gonna start thinking, like, Well, maybe he got jester or lover or like, then the people who think I'm an asshole are like, Oh, it's hero. He wants to be the hero. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, it's none of those, by the way, sage, like, oh, he thinks he knows everything. Nope, not that. I'm definitely not innocent. There's only one left. You know,

Kelly 47:07
I'm trying to, like, go through my list right now and figure out which, which one's left. But I got King, really. What was the description on that one? I don't remember what you said. The King

Scott Benner 47:16
in the masculine archetype, the ruler represents control, authority and order. Interesting about leadership that brings structure and promises stability and well being,

Speaker 1 47:27
I wouldn't have pegged that. Yeah. Do you think there's

Scott Benner 47:31
like, a whole part of me that doesn't come out in the

Unknown Speaker 47:33
podcast? There must be, yeah,

Scott Benner 47:37
I don't know. I don't think I'm right about things.

Kelly 47:39
Did Arden say that was the one? Like, did she think that was a good fit for you? No, Arden got the same thing.

Scott Benner 47:46
Do you think that's a good fit for her? I think these things are bullshit, but I don't know. Like, I give to keep it on me for a second. Would ask questions about, like, Do you doubt yourself after you've made a decision, like stuff like that. Like, I don't doubt myself after I've made a decision, but it takes me a long time to make a decision. Like, I don't have like, hot takes in my own life. You know what I mean? I know I make a podcast. So people are probably like, I think you do that for a living, but like, if something comes up, I give it a lot of long thought, and then once I decide that it's a thing that we can do. I don't back off of it. I trust myself after that. Does that make sense?

Kelly 48:25
So when you're answering the questions, are you answering it like, generally looking at your whole life? Are you just looking at your personal life, or, like, what you feel about yourself or what you think other people feel

Scott Benner 48:34
about you? That's why I think the tests are because, like, there's like, every question that was asked. I said to Arden, I was like, one of them was timed. And she goes, Hey, these are timed. And I was like, we could have a half an hour conversation about every one of these questions. You know what I mean? Like, like, they're not that cut and dry, they're not that simple. Do you like being in groups, or do you prefer being in groups or being alone? And I said, Are we a group, like the four of us? Is this a group, because I like this, but I don't want to go to a club, right, and be with 150 people, but I'm not alone when I'm with you, and I don't, and I don't mind being alone, but I don't particularly like seek it out. This question is meaningless, like, because it could be interpreted 1000 ways, unless the test is set up to let you just interpret it every way you want, but I don't know how it could be that that thoughtful. Then

Kelly 49:25
it's assigning a type to you and saying, like, this is how you are, and you're like, Are you sure is that? Was I just feeling about like, like, about myself for the last three days before I took the test?

Scott Benner 49:37
If it works? That's kind of crazy, but I don't see how it could actually work. Like, look, do you prefer being alone or in a group myself? Yeah, alone, but is your family a group?

Kelly 49:49
See, I wouldn't count them as a group. See, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm with you. I absolutely don't want to be in a group of people, but I wouldn't count my my kids and my husband as a group.

Scott Benner 49:59
Yeah, you. Here was one like, Is it easier for you to talk to people at a party who you know, or people you don't know? Neither, Oh, see, for me, it doesn't matter. Oh, yeah, it matters. So now I can't answer the question. I would literally talk to anybody like and sometimes do. Sometimes I just, I was walking to the grocery store the other day, and this lady was pushing out one of those carts that set up like a race car for your kid to sit in in the front. The last time it was the grocery store with Arden, she saw a kid in one of those carts and said to me, I remember when I was a kid feeling like I was actually driving that thing, and it was so much fun. I'm walking past the woman. We make eye contact. What do you think I do you think I nod? Do you think I say good morning. How are you just smile? No, I go. My 20 year old daughter told me the other day that when she was that age, driving those little cars, she felt like she was really driving it. And the woman, at first is like, what has happened? You know what I mean? But then she realizes someone speaking to her. And she processed what I was saying, and she stopped and smiled and said, Oh, God, she loves in this thing. And then she told me about her kid, and then I said, I hope you have a good day. And she said, Me too. And we walked away. Nobody does that.

Kelly 51:09
No, no, that wouldn't be me at all. Even if I was that person with the kid in the cart, I've been like, Oh, that's good. And I would have kept walking. I wouldn't even say, like, have a good day. I would just walk away. I'd be like, great,

Scott Benner 51:19
get away from me, murderer.

Speaker 1 51:23
Why are you approaching me with my small child? Get away from me. So

Scott Benner 51:26
I have a feel like, yeah, Jesus, ready? I have a theory that if I could talk to a stranger and make them comfortable quickly, that that's a skill that translates into what I do for work.

Kelly 51:39
It's also a skill to murder someone if you wanted to,

Scott Benner 51:42
yeah, but I'm not gonna do that. I just I like, I like practicing on people who wouldn't wait. This sounds terrible. I like talking to people who don't expect you to talk to them to see how quickly I can get them comfortable and engaged. But

Kelly 51:54
there are some people like me who are like, I refuse to get comfortable, because then what if you lure me into your big white van and,

Scott Benner 52:03
well, listen, there are people that you can't get comfortable. And then I go, Okay, well then I just look at them, and I go, okay, sorry. And I didn't go the way I expected. But you can also see like I understand you. You don't want to be abducted. Probably. Are you under five? Five? Kelly, what's going on? I'm not actually, no, and you still feel like you could be abducted. Yeah, well, no, I feel like my kids could be though I heard your kids are boring. Nobody wants

Unknown Speaker 52:29
they're cool. They're just not fun to hang out with. You know,

Scott Benner 52:33
I wish one of them would bring weed to the UNO party, but they're not cool enough. Scott, like, I'm just telling you some people have, like, social anxieties and stuff like that, I feel like you can sometimes see that in their face. Like, I'm not approaching somebody who looks like they've got their head down and they're talking to like, their Maga key chain. Do you know what I'm saying? No offense, no offense to those of you with the Maga key chain. Like, I also don't just like, jump people, like, out of nowhere. Sometimes people make eye contact and you're like, you can tell like we're thinking the same thing,

Kelly 53:02
right? I'm the person that will like, all like smirk at people all like smile. I might even like do a wave, you know, if we're like, walking past each other and we accidentally make eye contact, but I will absolutely not look up. I will not try to make eye contact or interact like I I probably look like an apple, but I like, I think that I like, I think that I grin, or like, you know, like, Oh, hey. Like, look, I'm a nice person, but no, I don't want you to

Scott Benner 53:27
talk to me. Is your husband more social? Sometimes? Yeah, sometimes. Okay, I've said this before, but like, when my son was younger, he'd give me crap all the time for talking to people, but he's like that. He talks to people, he would like he's he's very private, but if you get him relaxed, he'll talk to anybody. Yeah,

Kelly 53:45
I mean, I'll relax and talk to people if I've drank, but I don't really drink, so I don't think

Scott Benner 53:50
it's a drink thing, yeah. Like, I could if I drank, but I don't drink. So no, no one's talking to me.

Kelly 53:56
I'm not gonna run to the grocery store with a fifth in my pocket. Like, how

Scott Benner 54:00
much of your time Do you worry that somebody's gonna snatch your kid seriously? Like, a percentage or, like, is it a thing you consider when you're in public? Oh yeah, oh yeah. Is this a thing that happens a lot where you live? There

Kelly 54:11
have been things, yeah, in the town that we lived in previously, we were thankfully not in town, but like, there was, like, a mass shooting at a Walmart that we frequented, like the Walmart that we went to. So, like, there's just bigger things that I'm like, Yeah, I'd rather just not look at people like, yeah, that's

Scott Benner 54:29
terrible. I mean, listen, there was that news story last week. There's three teenage girls plotted to kill their mom for turning off the Wi Fi. What they chased her with knives around the house the shit around outside to get away from Oh, my God, I didn't hear that. Like, three sisters, I think, like, 14, 1516, like in that age range. Yeah. Mom shut off the Wi Fi and they they went after

Speaker 1 54:50
that's the mom that stands out front of the house for the news station. Says, I didn't see it coming. Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:55
And then the neighbors across the street going, how could you not have seen this coming? But. How dare you turn off the Wi Fi. You people are out of your minds. You just took your meth away from your meth heads. Like, come on. Of course they got mad, but I wonder if it's more male female. Yeah, probably. Like, I don't know if I could defend myself against a an abduction, but I know that I would try. Like, I don't have a fear that somebody's gonna take me, I guess, right?

Kelly 55:20
I think it probably is. I mean, I think there's definitely things like that that that females face, that others probably don't

Scott Benner 55:27
archetype question if they would have said, like, do you stand up for things like, in like, if you see a wrong done and it's got nothing to do with you, would you stand up about it?

Kelly 55:35
Well, it depends what it is and how my proximity to it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:39
I just said yes. It's like, I'm looking for an argument. Be awesome. Do you enjoy arguing with people,

Unknown Speaker 55:46
with my husband, or,

Scott Benner 55:49
listen, not a guy who you're punishing for loving you? I'm talking about just like

Kelly 55:56
a, like, a debate. No, for the most part, no, I'm very like, avoidant. Okay,

Scott Benner 56:00
yeah, no, I would love to argue about anything. Like, seriously, one of the things I'm let down by that I have a diabetes podcast. I wish I was just one of those people, like, just talking on the internet so that, like, I could, like, just say stupid things to people and have them say stupid things back, and then we could argue about it. I would love

Kelly 56:16
that. I mean, I would like to follow along with that. I like, listen and watch that, but I don't usually like to be involved.

Scott Benner 56:22
Yeah, I forget what the question was in the task where it was like, Do you enjoy, like, arguing with people, whatever the scale was that you had to vote on? I was like, I don't feel like there's some positive enough answer here. I don't want to be in the street yelling like, you know, with people, but like, I love it. Like, I really love just talking through things, and like passionately talking through things,

Kelly 56:43
like online, on Instagram, or whatever. I like watching people do that. I just don't like to be the one to do it. You don't want

Scott Benner 56:50
to be the one to do it. Yeah, I don't care about all that. I really want to be the one to do it. I guess I have an opinion I'm trying to share. I guess that's what, like a psychologist would say, like, why are you so comfortable. Would you do grow up well or something? Are you asking me? Oh yeah, you didn't, though, right? Oh, God no, no, that's right. I remember now. Sorry, you're just comfortable. Did people shout you down as a kid? Probably

Kelly 57:17
sorry. I, you know, I honestly have walked out most of it like you could ask me about my childhood. I'm like, I don't know. It probably happened. Probably happened

Scott Benner 57:23
at a birthday party when I was nine. I remember sleepover when I was 12.

Kelly 57:27
Literally, I have very few like, Yes, I know for sure that happened. Or, like, my sister and I talk regularly about, like, with my husband. It drives him nuts, because I can remember, like, any conversation. I'm like, You said we could have pizza on Thursday, and he's like, What, When did I what? Why do you remember that my sister and I have determined that it's all like trauma related, because we have a parent who, you know, will change the story and and whatever. So our brains have just been rewired to just remember all the details of of any conversation. But as far as like, our actual, like, memories of what happened in life, that'll have clue. So your mom, I'm sorry, I'm just guessing good assumption. Yeah, go ahead.

Scott Benner 58:12
So your mom would move the goal posts all the time, and if she got caught or she couldn't come through, she'd just lie right on. Yeah, yeah, that sucks. Yeah. A lot of like, we're going, Oh, she still does it. Oh,

Kelly 58:23
yeah, yeah, we're actually not speaking, but yeah, oh, she does. You didn't yell at her yet and make her stop. I've just stopped responding. Actually, we It doesn't help your

Scott Benner 58:33
opinion. Obviously, she's not here. But is it purposeful? Like, is it a control thing, or is she just like all over the place and covering herself

Kelly 58:43
both, it's very much control, but also she wants to make herself look and sound better. So

Scott Benner 58:50
interesting. Yeah, wonder why that happens. Yeah,

Kelly 58:54
I wonder that too, but I don't, I don't, I don't wonder enough to want to figure it out anymore. I did for years, and now I'm just like, you'd rather just not deal with it. It's not maybe that's why I don't like to argue, because there was never a point where it changed, like

Scott Benner 59:09
her, her mind, yeah, even if you were right, you weren't going to win. Right

Kelly 59:13
exactly. So, I mean, because for forever, I mean, I would get so worked up about every, you know, whatever thing I might have been passionate, might have been important to me as a child and a young, younger adult, I mean, and eventually it just got to the point where I'm like, you know, even my husband, who's he's been dealing with it, obviously, a lot less time than I have, and he would always be like, Well, I mean, what if you just say this to her, and I'm like, No, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change anything. Where I'm not it doesn't. It doesn't help. It's not worth my effort anymore. So you

Scott Benner 59:46
feel like you hear that story a lot, like, you know other women, right? Like, besides your sister. So like, do a lot of people have this story, or do they not share it? If they do, I

Kelly 59:54
don't know of a lot of people that that talk about that. I think I know a lot of people that you know. Don't still willingly talk to their their parents. So

Scott Benner 1:00:04
I love the way you just said that, wait, was your mama? You your mom a drinky, a little drinky when

Kelly 1:00:09
I was younger, yes, but not anymore, really. I mean, she will drink now, but not like, heavily.

Scott Benner 1:00:15
Yeah, it's all very interesting this. See, this is the stuff like, if you guys weren't, like, so hung up on, like, the diabetes stuff. Like, I would talk, I would talk more about, like, these things. I would like, be like, get your mom on. I want to argue

Kelly 1:00:27
with her. That would be amazing. I would tune in for so long.

Scott Benner 1:00:32
I would be like, your daughter gave me these three things that really bother her. She doesn't feel like she can talk about them. I'm gonna argue with you about them now. Well, Scott argues for you. That's a great podcast. Uh,

Kelly 1:00:45
my God, I mean, a little spin off would be okay. I'd listen. I think a lot of people probably would. Kelly,

Scott Benner 1:00:51
I have to tell you, like one of the things that like scares me the most is a business person that I do business with, right? And they come to me about every four weeks and say, Scott, I think what people like most about your podcast is you. And I think you should go in other directions, not with this podcast. Like, don't change this. You should start another one and do this here or something. And I'm like, you don't realize like, and I think it's lovely that he thinks that, and if he's listening, I really appreciate that you feel like that, I don't think it takes into account the randomness that success is. I could go make a great podcast, but it doesn't mean anybody will hear it, and it doesn't mean it'll pop off. It doesn't mean it'll get anywhere. And like, I gotta be honest with you, like, I don't have the time to make a podcast for 150

Kelly 1:01:36
people, right? What if that was just your hobby, though? Like, what if this was your job, and then doing that because you said you would enjoy it, like arguing with people and and having arguments for them, like that was your hobby, because it's something that you enjoy Fair enough.

Scott Benner 1:01:50
Then my next concern would be that parts of my personality that don't mesh well with this podcast would turn people off about me, but

Kelly 1:01:58
those people wouldn't listen then they would only listen to the diabetes one, right, maybe. And

Scott Benner 1:02:04
I'm not saying I'd say anything crazy. Like, it's not like people are listening, like, well, what are you gonna say? I mean, I want to know, but not gonna be something insane. Like, I'm like, hey, you know, I think, like, those Nazis had a point, like, it's not gonna be anything like that, right? Because I don't have those feelings. But like, my politics probably aren't the way you think they are. And, like, the things I think about the world probably aren't like what you think about the world. I'm just one of those people that thinks, if you own a grocery store, you don't go out into the town square and tell people that you're a Democrat or a Republican, because you're trying to sell groceries to everybody. Do

Kelly 1:02:34
you think that would come up in arguments with like, my mother, though? Well,

Scott Benner 1:02:39
no, do you really think you could get your mom set up for this? Because I would do this. I would do this. No, it wouldn't. But people will dig through like opinions and say, Oh, I think that this clearly means that if he said that, then he definitely thinks this about that, and this about this, the read

Kelly 1:02:53
between the lines and not even necessarily be correct. Yes, yeah, 1,000,000%

Scott Benner 1:03:00
by the way, I believe most of us are this, but it's a dirty word to some people. I'm so moderate, it's probably boring. Listen, if you're spraying paint on a Tesla dealership, I see your point. And if you're over there going like, I want the tariffs to be 100% because I want to bring manufacturing blob like I see, I see people's points. I don't judge them. Like, so I'm one of those people that's like, I get why you feel that way, and that does make sense to me, but I don't feel pressure to, like, blend your ideas into my ideas, right? Like, you know, I mean, like, I think my opinions about stuff like that are probably pretty boring. I

Kelly 1:03:39
would like to think that's most people. I don't know that it is. But, I mean, I think that I tend to be, you know, that way too, like I can see where you're coming from, and I love to hear it. I don't agree with you. I'm not going to adapt my my thoughts to what you said, but I still it lets me know about you. I don't, I don't judge you for it, but I also might impact a relationship that I have with a person we

Scott Benner 1:04:02
said to chat, GPT, right now, what are the 10 biggest like, social issues going on right now? Right? Like the stuff that you see being thrown around on the online, on Twitter, on like, things like that, right? That list would sound something like trans kids playing sports. It would sound something like Elon Musk being involved in the government. It would sound something like war in Israel and this and that, I think if I gave you my opinions and all those, you'd be like, that's very boring and common sense. Thank you. But I think that people on the fringes of every one of those ideas would find a way to turn your opinion into your Hitler. Do you know what I mean, right from both sides, like, if you gave a down the middle opinion on something, then the people on the fringes are able to go, Well, if you weren't willing to stick up for that, then you must be this, right? That's boring to me, and that's how most content creators make a living. If they take the social issues that are out in front in people's minds, they pick a side so that. The people on that side will agree with them, and the people on the other side of it will call them Hitler, and that's how they stay popular.

Kelly 1:05:06
But then if you're down the middle, do you not possibly

Scott Benner 1:05:10
reach into everybody? Yeah, you just know, you just piss everybody off, and no one agrees with you. But that's we've

Kelly 1:05:16
learned. If, if they're in the comment section, then your post gets boosted.

Scott Benner 1:05:22
Yeah, but I'm getting older and like, so what happens then is, like, everyone online disagrees with you, and all the people, who is probably the majority of the people walking around who agree with you are not busy online, so I can't go to their house and have this conversation, and I definitely can't sell an ad on it. So like, I'm a little screwed. You imagine if I showed up at a moderate person's house had a reasonable agreement with them about something, and then for 60 seconds, said to them, us. Med, us. Med.com/juicebox, you can get your supplies the same way my daughter does from us. Med, they'd be like, Why is he saying this in the living room? But that really is the problem is that me and everyone else who's doing something like this, like they're delivering you, like some people are delivering real opinions to you. Some people are delivering real information to you. Some of them are just because of what you said earlier. Like, I don't want to be in this fight, but I love watching people have it, like, That's Entertainment, and so you piss a bunch of people off. Agree with a bunch of other people. Everyone in the middle isn't online, and what you get is the people who hate you, the people who love you, and the people who just like to watch the thing burn. And then you make money off of that, like, by reading ads the middle of it. Like, that's the world, like, like it or not. I don't love it, by the way. I like bringing people good information about diabetes. And it's, you know, I sell ads, because if I didn't, then I couldn't spend my time making the podcast. You know what I mean? Rob's not free, is what I'm saying, right? Yeah, I was thinking Rob's probably like, Hey, don't hang this on me. It's not just rob. It's like a light bill. And I would love to argue online, but I don't know how to pay for

Speaker 1 1:07:03
it. So if I find you a sponsor for an arguing podcast, you would take on my mom. Oh, my

Scott Benner 1:07:08
God, absolutely. Listen, our biggest problem, our biggest problem. Listen, I'm about to talk like this is like, it's the 80s, and I'm talking I ran contour here. But the problem is that you do have people who have great opinions, but the people in the middle, they're not online looking for them. You're making something that there's no one to give it to, and that ends up being why you see what's going on. Like, people just calling each other names so that you'll agree with them or disagree with them. That's all, that's all they want. Like, there's, it's, it's massive. Like, obviously in politics, it's, it's huge on YouTube, yeah, especially right now, yeah, you just pick somebody on their side, call them a name, and then tell everybody why you think that. And everybody who agrees with you is, like, right on, this is awesome. It's the best thing that's ever happened, because this guy's so right about this. And then some people hate listen to you. Yeah, yeah, that's it. And then click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, and that's it. Anyway. So I'm just gonna make a diabetes podcast, because I think that it helps people, and I like helping people, but I do wish I could argue more.

Kelly 1:08:13
Do you think that you would ever concede like, Do you ever do you think you would take on, like my mom with whatever, you know, three very, very minute points that I were to give you. Do you think that there would ever be a time where she could make a point and you'd be like, You know what? You're right. You're not a piece of

Scott Benner 1:08:29
probably, I mean, I'm sure you're wrong about some of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, not, probably not the big parts. But like, you know, I imagine if I talked to her long enough, you could find the pathway to how she got where she was, and it might create enough compassion that you'd say, Oh God, I see how this happened. Like, I can't let it go because of what it did to me, right? But I get how we got here. I wish she would have made different decisions along the way. And I think maybe, like, it wouldn't turn you into like, oh my god, it's Christmas morning. Make sure my mom's here to see the kids. It might make you feel better about her. And you probably call her once in a while and be like, Hey, happy birthday, right? You know? Because right now, may I Oh yeah, yeah, she's somewhere. She doesn't know all the things she did wrong. She would tell me they didn't happen. No, I'm sure, yeah, I'm saying that right now she's sitting somewhere right or wrong, and she doesn't believe she did anything wrong, or she's told right? Yeah. And so in her mind, what's really happening is her ungrateful kid isn't talking to her 100%

Unknown Speaker 1:09:30
Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:33
Everybody with their feelings and their thoughts, we got to mix them all together and try to make sense. It's impossible. Yeah, yeah. Really isn't easy. Like, the only thing keeping us together, may I for sure, sex and safety.

Speaker 1 1:09:49
That's pretty which I get neither of from my mother. So, no,

Scott Benner 1:09:52
no, no, but, well, thank god no. But what I'm saying is, is that, like, Listen, I've been married 30 years. The other night we. We were sitting down, me and Arden and Kelly and taking this little quiz thing. Kelly answered a question, and I said something, and she goes, that's not right. I was like, lady, I've known you since you were 20 years old. This is 100% right. And then you'd see Arden like, math thing. And she goes, but you've known her for 30 years? And I was like, yeah, and she was such a long time. And I was like, I know it is a long time, but Kelly was like, looking like, oh, yeah, I know. Listen, you meet a boy or a girl when you're however old you're a kid. And like, there's that exciting part of it, like, and you live in the exciting for a while, and then eventually you're like, well, we gotta have a place to live. And then, oh, a baby comes out. And you're

Speaker 1 1:10:39
like, and then you're hitched for life. At that point, it's good, and you're like, what I can't

Scott Benner 1:10:42
get out of here. We own this house together, but we can't leave because, you know, and I do love him, but like and she like. That all happens, and then you live through that for 10 or 15 years, while you're raising your kids, right? And some people like then mature through it. And then some people don't mature through it. Like, you know what I mean? Listen, I've only been

Kelly 1:11:02
married 10 years. I'm just kidding. Yeah, actually, I have actually only been married for 10 years, but I know what you're saying. I'm there with you.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
Listen, there's nothing bad about it. It's all very natural. You're not gonna bang like kids your whole life. And if you are, stop doing so much cocaine, like you have to continue to find value in how your life progresses and find joy in it as you're moving forward. But it's hard to, like, give up the fun part, and especially as it goes away more and more, you romanticize it more as it being fun. Like, Does that all make sense? It does. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. See, I'm a very sensible person, but I don't think that's a reason to leave a lady when she's 40, by the way, that's a reason to go like, hey, people change. He changed, I changed. But we put a lot of effort into this together, and there's a ton of stuff about us that's awesome. It's just not as fun. Yeah,

Kelly 1:11:56
as long as you change it like similar rates, I think it's okay, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:12:01
no, it'll probably be fine. Probably, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, but at the same time, like, sometimes it doesn't go that way, like sometimes people, like, mature faster or slower, or the thing that they miss is so important to them that they think, like, Oh, I'll go do it again. But the truth is, it's like, Listen, I don't want to generalize, but guys do that, right? Like, you everyone knows a guy who's been married three times, yeah, yeah. And they're always going back to like, the fun part, like, so they do the fun part, and then they leave, and then they do the fun part, then they leave, and then they do the fun part, then they then eventually they get too old and they stay. So they've ruined three ladies lives that have the fun part three times. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's true, yeah. And I also think, like, while we're, you know, I think sometimes ladies can sometimes. I think boys become men because women make them sometimes, yeah, okay. And I also think that sometimes women don't know when to stop trying to make you into something else. That's fair. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a fair thing to say, right? Like, I'm here now. I pay the mortgage. I'm a good guy. I don't cheat on you. You can stop fixing me.

Kelly 1:13:12
But it's like, it's like, it just got, it's got so much better. When we started fixing it, they're like, How much better can we make it? You know? You know,

Scott Benner 1:13:19
no, you get maniacal. Then you think, like, now you're like, the Mona Lisa doesn't need a touch up. It's done.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:25
Calling yourself the Mona Lisa right now.

Scott Benner 1:13:28
No, I'm making the point that you don't have to move a hair. You know what? I mean, like, it looks the same one way or the other. Like there was a moment where he's like, do you want to go four wheeling in the woods and then have sex? And you were like, I know, but Okay, can we stop doing this in a muddy place, and then, like, you know, like, you fix that, and you're like, maybe I could get him to get a car instead of a motorcycle, like, you do that kind of stuff. Like, but at the end, like, he's a good guy and he's a good dad, and like, he loves you, and like, it's so like, leave me alone. Now, let me be myself for a little while.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:55
When did you speak with my husband?

Scott Benner 1:14:00
Listen, these are not hard things to figure out. It's just in the in the last 10 years, we got so accustomed to telling everybody that they were special, we forgot that generalizations, generally speaking, are pretty accurate. Everybody's not the same, but sure they are,

Kelly 1:14:14
but nobody's special and everybody's special, yeah, yeah, you're

Scott Benner 1:14:17
special in lovely ways. Like, don't get me wrong, I know you're special, but, like, we all fit into a category for sure. Yeah, right, so I just happen to be a king. Sorry, it's trying to be funny to make myself laugh thinking of you being uncomfortable. Yeah, that's the etymology of that. Like I said that to amuse myself at how other people would either take it poorly or not. Wow, that is a really good look into how my mind works. I'm not trying to make you laugh. I'm making myself laugh. Wondering how you're gonna see what happens. Let me just poke this and see what happens. Oh, my God, that's hilarious. Yeah, anyway, like just be nice to each other and you're not gonna have as much. Sex as you get older, and just stay together. It's fine. You're fine. The kids grow up eventually, right, right. Don't be a dick while you're doing it, too. You know what I mean? You don't have to be told, like, just because it's not, like, super fun time. Sometimes it's fun to be although, yeah, but get a podcast for that. You don't need to, like, need to do it to the guy who's paying your bills, or the lady who, when you were 18, agreed to lay on her back in the mud. Remember she did that and just fcking treat her nicely, not that hard. My wife was put up with so much that I'd let her stab me twice before I left, as she was stabbed me. I think she she's owed this.

Speaker 1 1:15:43
My husband would concur. Yeah, he would say the exact same thing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:15:46
No kidding, yeah. No, no. I'm like, not for nothing. You know what? I mean, my wife's been with me on a desk. I don't know she deserves some credit, and she's trying to kill me with her like, goal post moving and like, making me a better person all the time, and I deserve credit for not putting in her shallow grave. Like, I think we all deserve credit, don't you? I hope so. I hope so. Yeah, all right. Listen, Hey, your kid had diabetes, right? I forget that part. Sorry about that. Hey, listen, once in a while, one of these has to go this way, and this one was that one. What are we going to call this one? Whatever you want. You call it Kelly's mom. It's mentally unstable.

Kelly 1:16:27
Listen, even my therapist agrees like I talk, you know, we talk. And he's like, Oh, yeah. So have you ever heard of, you know, this psychiatric thing? And I'm like, Yep, sure.

Scott Benner 1:16:38
No kidding. Well then listen, that'll be a good description for this episode. Uh, Kelly's therapist agrees that her mom is a gas lighter. Is that fine? Can I write that be a long title, but yeah, but we'll just probably call this one archetype. No. How's that going to get them into like they deserve to hear the story about your kid going from stage to stage? Yeah?

Kelly 1:16:59
I mean, there was, there was a lot there. I think it feels like it's been a lot. I don't know if I talked about it all properly, but

Scott Benner 1:17:05
just so people understand how I'm producing this episode. We did such a good job on the stages thing and how you felt and everything. I was like, Oh, we can do tomfoolery at the end. It'll be nice.

Kelly 1:17:15
Yeah. I definitely just, I feel like the like, honeymoon shit that we were dealing with. This was just like the on again off again relationship that nobody asked for, like, just, hey, let's just watch it. Oh, no, we're not gonna touch it yet. Okay, now treat it. No, don't treat it. No, don't treat it. Okay. Now treat it again. Let's see what his body does and oh, my god, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:17:36
that's crazy. All right. Well, listen, let's leave everybody with a takeaway that'll help them. Ladies, good luck not turning into your moms. Guys, you know, don't be just, just be cool, like she put up with a lot. And you know, I just think you should say, thank you. That's all. I actually feel that way, like any girl who's ever been kind enough to take their clothes off in front of me, I'm like, That girl deserves a lot of credit. I wouldn't have done this for me. Here's what I'm saying. This is very, very kind of you. So almost how, like, every encounter should end, it should end with me going, this was very kind of you. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:12
That would be insulting, honestly, like,

Scott Benner 1:18:15
because you did it with me, and now I'm like, You shouldn't have done

Kelly 1:18:18
this. No, like, for you to be like, that was so nice of you. Thank you not like, wow, that was amazing. I'm so glad we did that. But like, Well, that was nice of you. I'd be like, Oh, okay, no,

Scott Benner 1:18:26
I feel like that part comes out during the act. During the act, if you're not acting as if it's awesome, I don't think you're paying attention. Even bad pizza is great. But I'm saying that when you get to the end, like, you should just say, like, look, I realized there had to have been better guys to do this with, and I really appreciate you doing

Unknown Speaker 1:18:41
this. You know, that was really challenging for you.

Scott Benner 1:18:45
I mean, I saw that, like, Netflix just took over that horrible show where they bring couples in and then send hot people to try to steal them from them. What's that called? I don't have a clue. I'll figure it out. Hold a second, because Arden's like, I don't want to watch this show, but I am going to watch the first episode and I was working love Island, I don't know it Okay, well, so here's what happens, my God, Rob's like, I'm gonna charge you extra for this. Like, you should, Rob. Seriously, love Island, they basically bring in they bring in couples, and the couples are attractive, right? But they're not models. Does that make sense? Okay? And then they're usually couples who have been together for a while, but don't commit to each other. And, you know, they end up coming in and like, the guys saying stuff like, well, you know, like, like, you know, you know, I want to make sure she's the right one. Like, three and a half years later, what he's saying is, like, I really would like to have sex with different people, but I know she's awesome, and I shouldn't let her go. Like, these are really terrible people. And then and the woman's like, so like, I feel so bad because they just don't have the confidence to say, I should be treated better, right? So they're like, I need the guy to do something that proves to me that he's not going to cheat

Speaker 1 1:19:56
on me. I need him to give me permission to leave by sleeping with. Someone else, and

Scott Benner 1:20:00
now they're there. And then they bring in girls in bikinis that look like they were made in a laboratory. And these girls are there to try to temp the guys away from the women. And so they bring the girls out, and the guys, of course, like their jaws drop on the ground like an old Bugs Bunny cartoon. And the girls are saying, like, Gracie things, and they're in thongs, and they go over to the guys and put, like, a bracelet on them. They're like, here i You're the one. I'm gonna go after the guys. They're sitting next to their women. They're touching leg to leg, acting like they're not there. This is, by the way, what it would be like to be at a strip club with a guy, by the way, because he's just like, Oh, hi. How are you? And like, I'm like, oh my god, your girlfriend's sitting next to you. You've known her for five years. This is awesome. That all happens. The women are incensed, and then the guys, they're not smart enough to play it forward a half an hour to when they bring out the guys that are going to try to take their women from them. And then the guys come out, and then all the boyfriends are like, Oh God, that. Like, can they put their shirts back on? Like, that kind of stuff. Because these guys are just like, I mean, they're on a reality show on Netflix. They obviously just do sit ups for a living, so that's happening, and then they put them in dating situations and video it, and then show the video to each other. So

Kelly 1:21:09
do they come onto the show knowing, like, what they're doing? Do they think they're coming onto this show to, like, secure their relationship, or do they know that they're both going to be tempted and they're just waiting to see what happens. So

Scott Benner 1:21:22
Arden and I had a long conversation about that, and we should probably make it into a podcast, because we were trying to, like, decide, like, is this just production? Like, did the producers just tell them? Like, are these just people who want to be famous? You know, is that girl? Like, I'm just gonna try to gain 50,000 Instagram followers from I saw go on love Island. I don't really care about this guy anyway. Like, you know what I mean, like, or as a couple, are they trying to be? Are they really couples? Or is it just all fake? Like, we couldn't tell.

Kelly 1:21:46
I mean, Google says there's 11 seasons and, I mean, I hadn't heard of it before, so maybe. But how are you applying to be on a show and you don't know what the show is about and what's going to happen? Like, how do you not look at the previous 10 seasons before applying for the 11th

Scott Benner 1:22:02
Yeah, my point is, is that the people who went on survivor in season one were like, I'm gonna go on a game show where I live on an island and try to outlast everybody. But the people who went on survivor in season 30 were like, I'm gonna be famous, right? By the way, it doesn't work, but that's what they thought, like, I'll pump up my social status. Like, I mean, who goes into like, what's that one the Big Brother house? Like, who's doing that? It's like a half a million dollar prize to live in there for three months after taxes. You could probably just get a decent job and make that money. It's a weird thing, not in three months, by the way. People are like, Oh, Scott, making a couple 100 grand every three months. I'm not, like, you know what? I mean? Like, a decent job, work hard. I think you could do okay in a year, and none of you are gonna win. Like, one of you is gonna randomly win. The rest you get nothing. I don't know. I think it's about social credit. I think that's what they're going for. But my point is, if you are actually a couple, even if you don't cheat, even if you do nothing, I don't think it matters. I think your I think your relationship ruined the minute you get there, don't you

Speaker 1 1:22:59
by exposing yourself to this situation in the first place. Yeah, because what if

Scott Benner 1:23:03
there's video, Kelly, what if we go, you and I go, Okay, it's my wife's name's Kelly. So this will be easy for me to imagine. Kelly and Scott Go, go on love island together. We've been together for four or five years. You're not sure if I'm going to commit to you. I have a wandering eye, and I'm not sure if you're right for me, because this is pretty much the like vibe of these people. But

Kelly 1:23:19
I would hope, if we'd been together for four or five years, even if we weren't going to be married, that like you would be committed at that point, like it's not a month in, where you're not sure where you stand with each other.

Scott Benner 1:23:29
It was eight seconds of a girl in the thong, and one of those guys forgot that he was sitting next to a person. I'm telling you. He was like, he was like, God damn. Look at that. You could hear him mumbling under his breath. I was like, Dude together, yeah. So anyway, so you and I are on the show and, like, we don't cheat. But later you see video. I see video of you six champagnes in considering the cheating in a group date night, and there's a guy leaning in on your shoulder talking to you, and you've got one foot up on the wall. How am I coming back from that after I saw that, right, right? And you have the same thing, I'm on a boat, and there's a girl in a thong sitting on my lap, but I never cheated on you. How you coming back from that?

Kelly 1:24:10
Do the girlfriends that come on the show with them? They go girls, and the guys that came on the show together, they split off and go on these racy dates with Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:24:19
they split them off, and then they drip models on top of them and give them alcohol so

Kelly 1:24:24
they don't stay, because you said originally that they're sitting next to the person that they came with. When they are they're introduced, and then they start introducing

Scott Benner 1:24:30
you, yeah, boom. Then gone, yeah, okay. And then they show you video of like one another. So in a party atmosphere, even the the most benign thing that doesn't end in sex is gonna look bad, right? And then how am I supposed to forget that that happened? How do I believe you when I say to you, Hey, I just saw a video where it looked like a guy was eating your ear. That wasn't really happening, right? You go, No, we didn't do anything. Then what do I go, okay, my husband

Kelly 1:24:55
would be sitting in a corner, literally facing the wall, like he's in time out, playing. Will keep on going like, I don't want to be a part of any of this. All the video

Scott Benner 1:25:03
you're going to find to me is me staring into this corner because I'm going home and keeping my house. Actually, I'm hoping Kelly does something weird, because I'm going to take the house from her. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like all we've learned today is, I don't know what we learned here. Never mind, although I will tell you this. Anyone still listening? You people would love my new podcast that I know for sure. Oh my god, I have so many thoughts about so many things. I just hold them inside, or they bother my family with them.

Kelly 1:25:35
Maybe love island would sponsor your new podcast where I

Scott Benner 1:25:39
just make fun of the people on love Island, exactly. Why wouldn't they a dumber group of people? Like, I just, I can't imagine, like, I really can't imagine what your thought process it has to be that you're trying to be famous. It's just too easy to, like, have a measure of fame. Like, there is a Kelly we live in a world where, in a certain place, I have fame that's ridiculous. Like, genuinely ridiculous. Famous people are supposed to be. Brad Pitt, famous people are supposed to be Susan Sarandon, these are famous people, not me, not Scott No, I did what I did right now with you. I'm good at this. Like, don't get me wrong. I love it to death. I enjoy it very much. I make a nice living from it. Like all that's good, but I did it while a chameleon, I like, just remember, like, that's not a thing that rises to the level of fame. Do you understand what I'm saying? Maybe it shouldn't be. We've ruined fame, is what I'm saying. We've ruined it. Yeah, giving it to everybody, we're literally going to make it go away.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:39
That. I mean, is that all bad, though, either? Actually,

Scott Benner 1:26:42
let's write that down. That'd be an awesome episode with Arden. Like, because if we follow this out, like, initially, it ruined fame, right? Like, it's just not hard, like, I accomplished with $300 what Howard Stern went to college for and worked at 17 terrible radio stations to get to. You know what? I mean, yeah. But like, if you stretch this out another 200 years, will this, like, come back around, like a snake eat its own tail and we'll get rid of fame, or will fame just look different? Will it just keep morphing? I

Kelly 1:27:10
mean, I wouldn't put you, like, on the same fame level as you know, the Brad Pitt that you're mentioning, right? But no,

Scott Benner 1:27:18
not today. No, of course not, but the version of me 40 years from now. I don't think the version of Brad Pitt exists 40 years from now. Well, yeah. And I think that's kind of a shame, a little bit like, because now nothing special.

Kelly 1:27:33
I will say, I feel like there's not any like new like, there. There are like, you know, the the Johnny Depp's, the Brad Pitts, but then you look behind them and it's like, I don't know. I don't know any of you. I've seen you in one movie before. I don't nobody. Nobody's big.

Scott Benner 1:27:45
Yeah, would I care about Timothee Chalamet? That's my thing. No, stop it. It's not the same thing. Brad Pitt is on ads in other countries where they don't speak English. That's the kind of fame I'm talking about. But do you think you would do that? No, of course not. That couldn't possibly be me. That man's so pretty. Are you? You're popular in a lot of countries, though, yeah, but not He's so pretty. Like, that's not the same thing. Do you think they would

Kelly 1:28:12
put you on, like a Dexcom commercial in some other country, though? No, because I don't have diabetes. You talk enough about you slap a Dexcom on. Nobody would question it now that I

Scott Benner 1:28:22
would, first of all, that's ridiculous. I wouldn't do that. Don't put that on me. And like, secondly, secondly, like, no, that's like, Listen, I have a lot of advertisers. You don't see many of them bring me places publicly, though, so they know that all of you listen, they'll buy ad here because they can reach people. But if they're going to go out into the public they're not going to hold me up because I don't have diabetes, and rightfully so. Yeah, do you think

Speaker 1 1:28:45
everyone in their commercials does have diabetes? I guess I don't see Dexcom commercials that much. I

Scott Benner 1:28:49
believe that everybody they put in their commercials has diabetes, and I think that the social media influencers that they bring to things have diabetes. Now, having said that, there is a company who's taking me to children with diabetes this year, so, but I'm going to talk to kids.

Kelly 1:29:06
My kids had so much fun. We went to touch by type one conference, and they had so much fun listening to you.

Scott Benner 1:29:11
Awesome. Now that's what we're so what we're going to do is go down. I'm going to basically, like, do a like, put a bunch of kids in a room with diabetes, and like, do like a podcast with them, like, with a I don't know how it's gonna sound, but like a giant group of kids, and then I'll be available to, like, talk with families and, like, like, do pictures with kids and stuff like that. Like, you're gonna actually record it. We're gonna try. Yeah, we're gonna see it. I mean, it might just sound like a bunch of screaming kids. I don't know if it's gonna work or not, but that's one of the things we still have to work out. And it might just be a thing for them there. If we can't get it recorded, then we won't get it recorded otherwise. Yeah, so, and that's nice, but that's one company in 20 years who's like, Yeah, you should come. Like, can you imagine, I've never been to children with diabetes before. That's ridiculous, isn't it? I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah, right. I've never been there, so they don't want me. Nobody's looking for me to speak

Speaker 1 1:29:58
at that, but they're only. Are they only letting you speak to kids? Or was that your choice? That's what

Scott Benner 1:30:02
I said. I thought would be most interesting. Okay, I'm great with kids. Like, I won't say a lot of the stuff I said here, I would hope not. Yeah, when I focus on children, I'm very good with children. I don't know that's not the point. The point is we've ruined fame. Like, because it shouldn't be that easy. Like, when the world goes crazy, I think there should be a handful of people to look to, not literally countless people who you just keep, like filtering through till you find the person that you absolutely agree with. Because you haven't heard a different opinion. Then you just heard your opinion. You just finally found your opinion being parroted back to you. You know what I mean, like, so when you were famous, when there was actual fame, something would happen in the world, and there was a handful of places to go to hear commentary about it. And then you had to decide, of that commentary, what did you find valuable? What do you agree with, disagree with? How much of it are you going to adapt or not adapt to the way you think? But instead, now you just go to YouTube and you just follow somebody you agree with, and then that's it. You don't have to think it's all just them reinforcing how you feel. And I think that, like, once people got this is gonna sound incredibly hypocritical, but once you could put a microphone and a camera in someone's house. I know I'm arguing against myself here, but that's fine. Like once you could do that, you ruined what fame was, and then you took away the idea that there somebody had to work hard to become thoughtful on a subject, and that they had to go through the court of community to decide if their voice was valuable or not, because if it wasn't, it would go away, and then somebody else would get a chance. Like, does that make sense? Yeah.

Kelly 1:31:39
But I also think that you have enough information and valuable experience that people are listening to for a reason. There's a reason that your podcast is better than the others

Scott Benner 1:31:49
listen. Kelly, I didn't want to be the one to say that, but yeah, of course. Like, I'm doing a good job, but like, but there are also 50 other people doing a bad job at it, right?

Kelly 1:32:00
But isn't that a level of fame that you have will say higher than the others, because you have the experience and the and the knowledge and everything that maybe they do, maybe they don't, but you're also good at what you do, so like, you have more fame than that person. So that still kind of exists. There might be some people that listen. I've never heard any others. So, I mean, I'm not comparing one to the other, so I don't know who anyone else is. I'm

Scott Benner 1:32:24
also not saying that there's not other people doing it well, right? I've said this a couple times on here, but I used to keep track of it, and I've stopped a long time ago, but I got to 110 that's 110 diabetes podcast that came after mine that have since become defunct. That's insane. I

Kelly 1:32:43
feel like you think about yourself, that you are the most successful because you were the first though, or is that accurate? I think

Scott Benner 1:32:51
that I have an advantage for I mean, there is, like, there's a thing called first movers. What do they call it? First movers? Something, something called first movers and second movers. So there's a theory that being the first mover just puts you in a position where nobody else can get to you because you're

Kelly 1:33:09
easier. But that's not why you're doing better going

Scott Benner 1:33:14
right? There's also an idea of second movers, which means that you got to see the first person do it wrong, and so that you could then say, All right, well, I see what's wrong here. I'll adjust, I guess. And so this is, see, this is very you're going to make me say something that is going to sound indelicate, but like, I think that it was definitely a benefit to go first. I also think that I am engaging and interesting, and I put on, and I think I'm a person who realized that just talking about diabetes wasn't going to cut it right, like, you're going to need to make this fun and entertaining and real and like and not make it sound like, like the local news. You know what I'm saying. So did

Kelly 1:33:54
that come naturally, or was that actually a conscious thought that you had when you started talking about it? That's

Scott Benner 1:33:59
just natural? Yeah, so I so you can't take credit for that, like, it's not like, I was like, You know what I should do? I understand, in hindsight, why it worked, but it's not like on day one, I was like, Well, what I'll do is I'll just be myself. I won't act like a talking head on like, you know, a local ABC affiliate, like, that kind of thing. But some people, I think, do that, and that's just natural for them. But I don't think that that lends to like, broad appeal. And so Moreover, what I realized was that the goal is to help people with their diabetes, so whatever keeps them in the information longer, so that they can learn it. That's what's most important. So if it's you and me making fun of your dad or your mom, or, you know, like me being a little salty sometimes, or me being like a little risque sometimes. Once in a while, I'll share how I feel, like, you know, about religion, and I'll get notes from people, and the notes are like, listen your diabetes, information is rock solid, but do not say how you feel about God or like this or that. Like, that's not okay. I. Listen anymore, and I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I think just being me is what works. But if I sat down with this microphone 11 years ago and I was just being me about something else, and I didn't have a built in base of people, I don't think it would have gone anywhere. And I honestly think as popular as this podcast is right now, that if I started another podcast, I don't think it would be popular, because it's too hard to get going at this point, and nothing is viral anymore. Like there's no there's no such thing as organic growth that's fair. Yeah, yeah. You have to either be famous or you have to spend a shocking amount of money to get yourself to that level, and that money gets spent on Facebook ads and Instagram ads and Tiktok ads and stuff like that. You don't you all don't realize, but a lot of the stuff that you're watching was pumped up by money. It got you there to money. Right, right? I've had a lot of conversations recently with people who work at meta, so Facebook, Instagram, I've had conversations with people who do this professionally. What I've been told is like, because I'm looking for a way to make the podcast grow, and what I've been told is like, look, you've done such a good job, but there's no there's nothing left here. There's no fruit to pick off this tree. And I find that frustrating, because I like working towards more. I like to think that I'm getting up in the morning to help you guys, and then to and to build the podcast. Like, those are the two things I like to focus on. And I'm so worried that I've gotten to a point where, like, I can't make the podcast any bigger than it is, and that that'll take away some of the and this is gonna sound crazy, but some of the fun for me. Yeah, yeah. There's a little worrisome for me. But like, so I could start another podcast and no one will hear it. It's not the same as it used to be. Used to be on Facebook. You shared something, someone liked it, they'd re share it. That doesn't happen anymore. People don't share things on Facebook anymore. They don't comment on things. Some people do, but it's not at the mass that it used to be so that that's gone. Now you have to pay Facebook to show your stuff to people, and it's not cheap. So what I was told by the professional was, we could still grow your podcast, but you'd have to get an infusion of hundreds of 1000s of dollars to make it happen. And I was like, well, we're not gonna be able to do that. So thank you. All that money goes into ads, and it may or may not work. The person told me there's no organic growth anymore. You don't just show up do a thing, people like it, and it gets bigger. The algorithm decides if you get bigger or not. That's it. So anyway, that's a huge bummer, but I think that's how it all works though. Let's just be happy that we're here. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, that's all. I have no idea what we're talking about anymore. This is a long this is the longest podcast I've recorded in a while. I really appreciated this. I like talking to you absolutely me

Unknown Speaker 1:37:47
too. Yeah, all right, hold on one second.

Scott Benner 1:37:58
The conversation you just heard was sponsored by touched by type one. Check them out please. At touched by type one.org, on Instagram and Facebook, you're going to love them. I love them. They're helping so many people. At touched by type one.org, the podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by tandem diabetes care. Learn more about tandems, newest automated insulin delivery system, tandem Moby, with control iq plus technology at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox there are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox podcast.com. I'd like to thank the ever since 365 for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every 14 days. You want the ever since CGM, ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM.

Hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong wayrecording.com. You.

Please support the sponsors

---

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#1546 Smart Bites: Processed Foods and Their Impact

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

Macros – personalizing intake

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Welcome to my nutrition series with Jenny Smith. Jenny and I are going to in very clear and easy to understand ways walk you from basic through intermediate and into advanced. Nutritional ideas, we're going to tie it all together with type one diabetes. Talk about processed foods and how you can share these simple concepts with the people in your life, whether it's your children, other adults or even seniors, besides being the person you've heard on the bold beginnings and Pro Tip series and so much more, Jennifer Smith is a person living with type one diabetes for over 35 years. She actually holds a bachelor's degree in Human Nutrition and biology from the University of Wisconsin. She's a registered and licensed dietitian, a certified diabetes educator. She's a trainer on all kinds of pumps and CGM. She's my friend, and I think you're going to enjoy her thoughts on better eating. If this is your first time listening to the Juicebox Podcast and you'd like to hear more, download Apple podcasts or Spotify, really, any audio app at all, look for the Juicebox Podcast and follow or subscribe. We put out new content every day that you'll enjoy. Want to learn more about your diabetes management. Go to Juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and look for bold Beginnings The Diabetes Pro Tip series and much more. This podcast is full of collections and series of information that will help you to live better with insulin. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 you can experience the ever since 365 CGM system for as low as $199 for a full year visit ever since cgm.com/juicebox for more details and eligibility. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes and their mini med 780 G system designed to help ease the burden of diabetes management, imagine fewer worries about Miss boluses or miscalculated carbs thanks to meal detection technology and automatic correction doses. Learn more and get started today at Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox Jenny, we are back talking about everyone's favorite topic, nutrition,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:42
it's my favorite. Well, it's one of my favorites. I have any favorite topics, but nutrition, we're

Scott Benner 2:47
onto our second part here. We broke the first module up into two episodes. But the second module we're gonna call intermediate nutrition. This is for ages eight and up, teenagers, adults seeking to expand their knowledge. And again, I'm just going to let you talk, so you jump in Absolutely.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:03
So I like how we've kind of broken these up, mainly because it gives a base to start with. That's my goal. Is a base to start and then build on the base, right? So now that we understand those big macronutrients and kind of a general idea of why to eat all the different foods, from vitamins, minerals, water, fiber, kind of standpoint, a big question that always comes up when I get to talk to people, is okay, but I'm eating all of these things, right? I'm eating all of the different food groups, and I need to understand, or I believe that they need to understand, how much of it do you need to take in, right? So just because you have, let's say, a balance you don't, maybe need three of the burgers and four salads. Does that make sense? It's like, Great, I'm eating really good food. Or, baby, you're not eating great food. But it's, it's quantity, I guess, is the base. The baseline here is, how much is going in, and how much is your body using, and where is that use going? Because there are two different reasons that we take in food. Do you know the two reasons?

Scott Benner 4:13
Point I'm going to say energy and like carbohydrates, energy, and then like building blocks, like nutritional building blocks, the I'm definitely, I'm not right about this close. I think you're kind of skirting, okay. I don't have the words, maybe, right, your

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:32
your explanation is kind of what I'm getting at. It's the what we take in has kind of two purposes, energy to kind of fuel everything that we need to do in a day, inclusive of adding exercise and all that. But then the other piece, you said building blocks, and I think of it more as what's the baseline of what our body needs in order to just function if we seriously were just sitting on a couch all day long? Yeah, and this is the big term. It's called BMR, or basal metabolic rate. Essentially, it's kind of how much our body just needs at rest in order to fuel, you know, the lungs to do what they do, and the heart to pump. And, you know, just structural changes, basic functions, right? All of the cells to turn over the right way, etc. So I think you had a gist of halfway there. You're kind of there, by the

Scott Benner 5:28
way, the thing you were talking about a second ago, about, like, you know, you need something that's good for you, but you can eat too much of it. You can also, I think, have too little, right? Like, so you could say, like, oh, I have protein in my diet every day. But you might not as an example, like you're you might have some, but not enough and correct? Yeah, okay.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:45
In fact, I think you know, eons ago what we got away from understanding the overall concept of balance, and we focused a lot on carbohydrates, right? What was that like the 80s and 90s? If I'm remembering correctly, carbohydrates were get away from fat. Fat is horrible. It's the evil thing. So let's eat carbohydrates. And so then we had all these foods that were very maximally processed, but they were carbohydrates, so they must be grateful. You

Scott Benner 6:16
must see this argument online, right? Like somebody says, I think I'm going to try a lower carb diet, and it will only take eight seconds for someone to say, your kids can't grow without carbs. And then I'm like, I think that everybody has a point, and nobody understands it well enough to articulate it to each other. Did you feel like that when you watch that conversation? I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:36
do absolutely. And I think is you were bringing up. You said, you know, we might be eating, but we might not be eating enough of something. And you said, protein. And if there is something that I think is, I guess it's under explained, or the emphasis isn't quite in the right place, is that overall protein is something that I think a lot of people are coming to understand, to focus on, especially those in the much lower carb world. But then they get, you know, sort of slapped in the face, like, no, no, no, you have to have carbohydrates too. And like you said, the conversation sort of just continues to go back and forth and back and forth without real explanation.

Scott Benner 7:14
Exactly it's surface. Each of them has a point. I don't think they have all the information, which I guess is why we're here. So you two reasons that we're eating caloric intake and versus expenditure. Wait, so yeah, calories

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:28
can be kind of broken into those two places, right? Like you said, it's what we need to expend because our body is moving and functioning what we call activities of daily life, right? We have to get up and do the groceries or the laundry, or we have to get to work, or we want to exercise at the gym, or whatever that is extra on top of just that baseline, that BMR, basal metabolic rate, what our body needs to breathe, think, digest, et cetera. So when we take the food into our body, I think that's another place that is absolutely not taught, and I wish that it was, is when we put food in our mouth, like, what ends up happening to it once it goes in, it turns

Scott Benner 8:11
into poop, probably something else in between. You're

Speaker 1 8:14
saying totally something that my second Creator would have said, Well, Mom, we have

Scott Benner 8:18
to tell you. I think a lot of people just thought that, like, oh, I eat it and it comes out as poop, and then body does things. I think we need to understand what's happening between mouth and poop, right,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:29
right, yeah. And, I mean, I'm certainly chemistry, biochemistry, all of those types of things. You could have a very deep in depth, 24 hour conversation about all of the different systems and how they work. But really we put food in our mouth. We have a quick eating habit in today's world, and our mouth is the first place that digestion starts. And I don't think most people think about that or realize it, but because we've gotten so busy school lunches, even when I talk about kids, they have maybe 10 to 12 minutes to actually eat their food, and then they're off to the next thing that they do. But what is that teaching from an early age? It's shove the food in, maybe chew twice, swallow, and then digestion kind of gets all disrupted. We should actually be chewing the food in our mouth for a minimum of about 15 to 20 chews per bite.

Scott Benner 9:23
This is why my grandmother would say that all the time, chew your food, chew your food, chew

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:27
your food. She's probably worried that you're going to choke up. She's

Scott Benner 9:31
like, this kid looks like an idiot. I think he's going to choke.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:36
There are a whole bunch of different things that happen in the mouth. I mean, within the saliva, there are enzymes that actually start to break down certain nutrients in the food that we're eating, so that by the time it gets down your esophagus into your stomach, your stomach doesn't have to do as much work. The process has already begun, and then the stomach churns things up, and other things get added into the mix. And then. Moves into the small intestine is the next place that food kind of moves, and that's where a lot of really good absorption takes place. Of what we're supposed to be getting out of the food, which are those nutrients that we initially talked about, right? Not only are we hoping to get the big nutrients, but we're also looking for those small ones, your vitamins, your minerals, fiber is huge in your intestines. It helps to move things through, or move things through clump with them, and then, as you said, so lovely, it turns into poop, and then we eliminate it.

Scott Benner 10:32
Listen, if you're lucky, some people get constipated, and then they don't feel good. And I wonder about this stuff all the time. I know about as much as I know, which is to say, not a lot. I know how my body functions, like, right? Like, I know that if I eat fewer processed things, you feel better, and the end result comes out nicer. I just want to say it like that. So that must mean that something in between is working more properly, correct, right? Yeah. Like, there's a difference between dropping the kids off at the pool and throwing them out of the car and crying while it's happening. I think that happens. I don't just everyone know the term drop the kids off at the pool for going poop.

Unknown Speaker 11:13
I mean, I made the association only because that's what we were talking about. No

Scott Benner 11:16
one's ever said to you, I gotta go drop the kids off the pool and then disappear for 10 minutes. Nope. No. No, okay.

Speaker 1 11:21
Have never, ever heard that. Now, I've learned something. I don't know if you've learned

Scott Benner 11:25
anything valuable. What I'm saying is that, like, no kidding, there's a reason that there's 1000 charts online that explain to you what your poop supposed to look like, correct. I think that there's a disconnect between what goes in our mouth and what comes out the other side, and, more importantly, what happens in between. And that's really, yeah, where the value is for you. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:45
I mean, the number of people that I get to talk to, and you probably have heard from or conversed with, you know, within your online community, it really is, my question to a lot of people is always like, how are you going to the bathroom, especially the women in pregnancy that I work with, right? How are you going to the bathroom is, it's an odd kind of conversation to have when you think that you're here to talk about diabetes, but when we know that with type one diabetes, especially gut health, is something that pushes us into sort of our immune health, right? Yeah, then we also have to be very aware of, well, maybe what I'm putting in my mouth either isn't the right combination of things, it's not the right quantity of things to fuel my body or do what needs to be done, or maybe it's not the right stuff for me, or maybe I just need to clean up my intake, because you know that about 70% of your immune function lies in your gut? Yes, that is a lot of your immune system function.

Scott Benner 12:45
I think that idea suffers from the idea that it sounds like hocus pocus to people. Do you know what I mean, like my gut health, it sounds like a thing that got co opted by some social media platform, and so you just think they're trying to sell you a probiotic. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the mini med 780 G system. The mini med 780 G automated insulin delivery system, anticipates, adjusts and corrects every five minutes. Real world results show people achieving up to 80% time and range with recommended settings, without increasing lows. But of course, Individual results may vary. The 780 G works around the clock, so you can focus on what matters. Have you heard about Medtronic extended infusion set? It's the first and only infusion set labeled for up to a seven day wear. This feature is repeatedly asked for and Medtronic has delivered. 97% of people using the 780 G reported that they could manage their diabetes without major disruptions of sleep. They felt more free to eat what they wanted, and they felt less stress with fewer alarms and alerts you can't beat that. Learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes by visiting Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since 365 and just as the name says, it lasts for a full year, imagine for a second a CGM with just one sensor placement and one warm up period every year. Imagine a sensor that has exceptional accuracy over that year and is actually the most accurate CGM in the low range that you can get. What if I told you that this sensor had no risk of falling off or being knocked off? That may seem too good to be true, but I'm not even done telling you about it. Yet, the Eversense 365, has essentially no compression lows. It features incredibly gentle adhesive for its transmitter. You can take the transmitter off when you don't want to wear your CGM and put it right back on without having to waste the sensor or go through another warm up period. The app works with iOS and Android, even Apple Watch. You can manage. Your Diabetes instead of your CGM with the ever since 365 learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:12
Very much. And I think along with it, which I hate the term, but I think in terms of explanation, it does explain a lot. Is leaky gut, right? Right? It's a horrible way to explain any type of gut dysfunction, because it really doesn't explain anything outside of like a leaky faucet. Kind of effect is what I always think of it like. But right? Our digestive system is supposed to be a really nice tight allow this in, allow that to go out really contain things and then poop out what's not supposed to be there, essentially. But we know that with diabetes, there is a lot of gut function testing research that has been done, and we know that there is some disrupted absorption and gut function in those who have especially type one diabetes, what it boils down to is finding the right foods the better quality, nutrient dense types of things to put in, one to make sure that you're not irritating your gut more than it might be, and to allow it to try to do what it's supposed to do for us, which is Keep the good stuff being put into our body that's supposed to be there, and getting rid of the stuff that's not supposed to be there. And

Scott Benner 16:26
if this is boring you as you're listening, just eat real good food there. It's tough because you're trying to explain why. So I think that people don't understand, generally speaking, why that's important. I think there are some people also don't understand, like, well, I'm buying food at the food store, like, it's food. Yes, I'm eating food. Like, what do you want from me? And then, of course, the problem is that when you start talking about eating, well, you start saying things to people like, eat fiber, rich foods include some fermented foods like yogurt or sauerkraut or, you know, for your probiotics. And then people are like, Oh, that doesn't taste like sour cream and onion potato chips. No,

Speaker 1 16:59
it's not going to that doesn't sound like fun at all. And it goes back to what we talked about last time, which is that

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:05
the manufacturing companies have gotten so good at tricking your taste buds, which then essentially tricks your brain into becoming it's like an addiction, yeah? No, no, it really is. I

Scott Benner 17:19
would draw a direct line between how your phone has you captured and how food has you captured? Yes, it's somebody who went into a laboratory and was like, I'm gonna turn a dial here. I'm gonna stick a needle in this. I'm gonna move this over here a little bit, and I'm gonna make it so this person's meat bag cannot resist the thing. I'm gonna give it to them 100% Yeah, right. They've tricked you into scrolling, and they've now, I sound like the hippie Jenny, but like they've tricked you into scrolling and they've tricked you into how you eat. And it's sucks, because the back end of it, literally and figuratively, is you're not pooping the way you should be, and everything that's going through you is not great. Also, I'll draw a line between sitting and scrolling and not pooping well, but that's another time, because if you're not moving. Like, what did you say to me before we started Rick, we talked about, before we started recording, that I had a knee surgery, and Jenny was like, just keep exercising. Build the muscles around the knee. The muscles will support the knee. Those similar muscles, smooth muscles, are how that food gets through you and comes out the other side, right? So if you're painting your toilet, it might be because, yes, no, that's 100%

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:24
correct. It really is, I mean, and if you as another consideration here, in terms of gut health and overall caloric intake, what your body truly needs in general, and then where there is overage that's not really needed, at least not on an ongoing basis. It's Apples are good for you. Broccoli is awesome for you. Spinach is fabulous for you, right? Like, but I guarantee you're not going to sit down to whatever those big buckets of salad greens are, and you're not going to eat the whole thing, right? Whereas you could probably sit down to that favorite bag of nacho cheese flavor, non name, branded chip that I won't say, they

Scott Benner 19:09
just came out with another color, by the way. Is it blue or purple? This, I think it's green. Now they have purple and blue and red, and there's orange, and I think there's a green one. Now, anyway, go ahead anyway.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:20
You could sit down to that whole bag and you could finish it. And do you know what's propelling you to finish it? It's the trick that your brain has now received from your taste buds, grab another. Grab another, get another. And then by the time you're done, you know you shouldn't have eaten that whole bag. You can tell you can feel it, but you wouldn't feel that way. If you even ate three plates worth of salad. You'd be like, Oh, nope, can't eat more salad. I just cannot eat more salad because somebody

Scott Benner 19:53
didn't sprinkle something on the salad. That just makes you the eating version of scrolling, which is like, Oh, I can't stop doing this. This is all. Awesome,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 20:00
and eventually it cleans things when you start moving to cleaning things up, and you may not do it all at one time, or maybe that's your personality, and that's the way that you have to do it, right. But it's like the sugar addiction, the whole concept of getting rid of sugar in your diet, meaning not from a kiwi, but from Sweet Tarts, let's say right is, once you break what is a true sugar addiction, you will no longer crave it. Yeah, and the craving is what draws people and it out steps what your body is telling you need in caloric value. Sure,

Scott Benner 20:41
like, it's no different than like a drug dealer might say, like, hey, Here, try this. And then your body goes, woo. And then you get into a position where you're like, I'll do anything, by the way, if you want to be insulted and give yourself a reason to stop eating this stuff that's not health related. Somehow, over the last two years, they've decided that eight ounces of those chips are worth $10 Oh, I know. I mean, a bag of chips is like, eight, nine bucks. Now in some time, you know what I mean, and like, so the game that gets played right is throughout the winter, when you're sitting around, the chips are super expensive, and then in the summertime, they'll put them on sale, you'll consume the crap out of them, and then you'll stop moving during the summertime, and then you'll be willing to pay $9 a bag for them again, be insulted by that, is what I'm saying. And like, stop eating them, just to say to them, Hey, you. I'm not doing this right. Listen, when I caught my little brother smoking right when we were kids, I said, stop for your health. But if you can't stop for your health, I'd stop, because somewhere in a boardroom, 10 millionaires are laughing at you for smoking these cigarettes. 100% you know, just get angry about that and find a way to help yourself right? Because I know you're you're caught now by it, you know what I mean you are. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:54
I think this also begs a little bit of a cleanup consideration too, in Well, I'm not buying that name brand one anymore, because I understand, gosh, the ingredients. I can't even read them. So now I'm going to go to the bag of chips that I can read the ingredients. They're organic, and, you know, they don't have yucky oils in them or whatever. But it's still a bag of chips, right? So you may have cleaned up the ingredients, meaning, nutrient wise, you're probably getting more than you were from the name branded. I don't care what I put in here, as long as the flavor is, right, you're getting more, but you still don't need to sit down to that whole bag. Yeah. So just as a whole concept, right? The process nature of things that don't look any longer like the banana or the Apple or the broccoli are processed.

Scott Benner 22:44
So eliminate as much processed food from your diet as possible. Correct? And oils that aren't like, I mean, I would only use a cold pressed olive oil in the house like I don't have any other oil at this point. I That's not fair. I have coconut oil to make popcorn with,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 23:00
but coconut oil, avocado oil, the olive oil are quality that are not going to be disruptive in the body, because they're the body knows what to do with them, right? If we break it down into the seed oils, and especially the nasty one, canola oil, right? We're looking at, I heard this comment the other day on another thing I was reading through. But it's really like, how far from the actual, let's call it food, has the oil come and when we start looking at some of the ones that we should definitely not be including in our intake, it's definitely the ones you know canola oil is. It's so processed that

Scott Benner 23:42
it's rapeseed oil, right? Is that? Right? So it's rapeseed.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 23:45
And then what they do is they process it into this form that gets really, like, sticky and like, goopy, like you wouldn't even be able to pour it's gross. And then essentially, what they do is they process that to make it more liquid. But what ends up happening at the end of that is it causes this, now, oil to become rancid. Well, we know what rancid. Rancid is not something you eat, right? It's not something you could smell or be able to even put in your body. And then after that, what you end up having to do is process it further with a whole bunch of extra chemicals in order to get it palatable. You know, it's the reason that, like when you go and you buy your coconut oil, like I buy a nice brand, that you can definitely tell the differences in it, even jar to jar. Even olive oils, you can tell the difference. This is where the region is. Is it Spanish olives? Is it, you know, Italian, where did it come and they all have that slight difference and nuance to it, whereas when you look at the aisle of oil, which is quite big the grocery store, no matter where it came from, they all look the same.

Scott Benner 24:56
In the late 19th and 20th centuries, rapeseed oil was. Prized for its high temperature stability and lubricating properties. It was used to grease steam engines and as an Industrial Lubricant. Traditional rapeseed oil contained high levels of uric acid, which in large amounts, was found to be harmful to health. In the 1970s Canadian plant breeders developed low uric acid rapeseed varieties named canola. It comes from the idea of the wording, Canadian oil, low acid. That's where you get the word, oh, look at that. Can o, so, C, A, N, Canada O, oil, low acid. La, the new canola oil retained the flavorable cooking and healthy attributes, high in monosat, monosaturated fats, and low in saturated fats, while being safe and palatable for human consumption. Imagine that I describe my food to you as safe and palatable, and you're like, Oh, awesome. So keeping in mind that it's, you know, obviously it's been tested, and they're like, it's not going to hurt people enough for us to say no to this. Keep in mind that there's also a level of rat hairs per million that is allowed to be in peanut butter or cinnamon. The action level of cinnamon is 11 rodent hairs per 50 grams, ground off spice is allowed to have one rodent hair per 10 grams. Crushed oregano, two rodent hairs per 10 grams, and an average of one or more rodent hairs per 100 grams of peanut butter is allowed. So my point is, is that just because it's not going to kill you doesn't mean it's something you really super want. And we are doing this all day. Like, just walk down the grocery store and look around and say, I'm not buying what Jenny's telling me to eat, right? Like, we sprinkle a couple of bananas and an apple in the house and everything. And then what happens? Like, sometimes people eat them, and sometimes you toss them out. Nobody even touches them, right? Or we'll over, steam some broccoli and throw it next to food and go, here you should have some vegetables, but you're saying you should be eating from that. And we should maybe be going back to when I was a kid to like, you know, when I went to school, I got this little bag. I remember clearly it being 1.34 ounces of potato chips, like it was this little, tiny bag that my mom would toss in. It was like a treat, sure I didn't go home and there was another bag of potato chips and another one and another one. So Right? They gave you a little and then they gave you a whole bunch more, and it's killing you, or at least hurting your life, you know, in some way, probably shortening it, or maybe just making it more difficult. Or listen, maybe you just in the bathroom, like talking to Jesus, someone set you up, and now you're part of their money program. They're making. They're taking your money and making you less healthy. Yeah, and

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:40
you can, I mean, as you said, going down like the grocery aisles, you can easily not buy probably 97% I wouldn't go that far with the produce and that kind of stuff. I don't know the percent that you could get rid of, but in the package dials, specifically, yeah, you could get rid of the majority of what you purchase by just turning it over, looking at the ingredients and saying, You know what? Out of all of the rest of the stuff that I can't even read, if it has canola oil, I'm not going to buy it, right? And if that transforms you into buying the stuff that's still a snack food, like another chip, but it's made with avocado oil or coconut oil, I would smile at you, at least making that transition right now. That's not without, as you brought up before a cost, you think a bag of the regular stuff is expensive. You look at the stuff that now doesn't have all of those things that are now big name made and so lower cost. You go to the other stuff, and it's it's definitely more expensive, right?

Scott Benner 28:37
So even in the case of, like, the tortilla chips that you brought up earlier, like there is a healthier version of tortilla chips you could buy, but they have to charge you more for it, because not that many people are buying it because it doesn't taste like heroin on a potato chip. They have to charge more to make it like it's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:53
and it's not as easily processed type of oil as you're gonna get with again, I'm using a broad sense, canola oil or the likes of that, right? So we have lower cost, not anywhere near nutrient quality, food that contains these low cost ingredients. So if, even if that strikes you, well, goodness, you know, like low cost ingredients did that. I mean, it sounds like you're being told to eat, like out of a trough, instead of eating at the table with

Scott Benner 29:23
that right? It's cheaper to make food in oil that also does a great job at lubricating steam engines, apparently, than it is to make it in I said cold pressed olive oil earlier, because, and trust me, I don't have all the details of this, but when you when they press the olives and turn it into oil. It would be easier to press it and while you heat it, but when you heat it, it actually physically changes the oil, and it's not as healthy for you, which is why I changes the chemical structure. I buy a cold pressed olive oil only. And if you've been listening to the podcast long enough, I've been on a journey, obviously, but the first place. Place I made a change in my life was with oil. Like that was the first place I changed. I was like, I'm not gonna eat anything that isn't cold pressed olive oil. And again, there's coconut oil in the house that we literally only use to make popcorn with, sure, right? And so I got rid of canola, vegetable, grapes, any other oil is in the house that I thought. I used to think canola oil was super healthy because it didn't have as much. What was the fat that they told us was bad for us? Oh, it was low in saturated fats, or something like that, saturated, right? Yeah, okay. And so I was like, Oh, well, that must be better. And I grew up in a time like you, and I talked about this earlier. I grew up in a time where my mom was like, butter, bad for you. I'm gonna use whatever this grease is, margarine, margarine, yeah, 100% her whole life, somebody told her that was better. So through the 80s and the 90s, what she thought, right? I became an adult, and we had it in the house, and I said to my wife, I think butter is milk and salt. Maybe we should just go back to butter

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:58
and use it in the right portion. Yeah, correct. I mean, when it what we kind of like boil it down into is, once you're paying closer attention to food versus what's pretending to be nutrient quality, calories, right? You also start to see that how often you're hungry through the course of the day. So we talk about, how much should we eat? We should also look at, how do we break that down through the course of the day? You know, you might have a breakfast and a lunch and a dinner, and if it's really quality, especially as an adult, you probably shouldn't be hungry in between meal times. Yeah, right. You shouldn't have this snack, snack, snack, snack, snack, snack. Sort of habit. Kids being a little bit different. Oftentimes kids will with just their metabolic turnover. And many kids are so busy these days with sport after sport after activity that they have a meal and then they need a little bit something in between. They have a meal and they need a little bit of something in between. And that may be fine, as long as what you're putting in then is actually fueling their true need. And it's not just because everybody else is getting a snack at the same time. There's a really big difference following the herd versus paying attention to what your body needs.

Scott Benner 32:12
Also, when you're that active and that young, you could eat a rock and your body could take care of it, you know what I mean, like, which you couldn't do. But I'm saying like, you can put some pretty crappy stuff in you, and it can look like it's going, Okay, I'm gonna say something that, God, I hope nobody hears, but which is a weird way to start on the podcast. But my kid played baseball since he was four, right up through college, right? So I know a lot of little boys who are now men, and I met a lot of men who are now older men. And if you want to see a group of people go to pot fast, it's formerly active people, because they were covering for a lot of their eating sins by how freaking active they were. And the minute that the activity went away and they were left with their eating style habits, yeah, and their habits, right? And the crack cocaine, like draw of of those chips and candy and any other thing that they would easily throw in their mouth for energy while we're playing or something like that. Those people degrade quickly. It's interesting how old they look all of a sudden, correct? Yeah, in their mid to late 20s, and

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:23
it's the No, I mean, it leads to a good you know, even from a childhood perspective of metabolism, we have a very high incidence in this day and age, of kids who are given way too much caloric value, right? And I shouldn't say value, or value in terms of intake, they're taking in too much, even if they're active. If you look at a general population of kids on a sports field, or whatever, you would expect that because they're athletes, that none of them should be over the healthy weight that they should be at, right? That's not the case anymore, right? There are active kids who are out eating their activity, and their body weight shows it.

Scott Benner 34:07
Yeah, that's and that's an insane idea, like for a little kid who sleeps, gets up, goes to school, moves around at school, comes home, goes right to a practice, and they're still a surplus, I guess, of calories, unless you have a real medical issue like that should be able to say to you, like, wow, like, we're eating too much. Like, like, there's calorically, there's just too much happening.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:26
And it could also be the way that their body is using the calories. Maybe the calorie value isn't wrong, but maybe it's where the calories are coming from. You know, so many favorite shopping place that most people have in their neighborhood and will go to now has another very favorite coffee shop housed right inside of this store, right the lines that are at this place where you can get coffee and treat types of things. It always astounds me as I come in the line there to get something and then walk around with a. Drink or a snack while you're shopping? Yeah? To me, is, it's just very interesting again, having grown up kind of within the range of where you did, yeah,

Scott Benner 35:11
it's part of the experience now, like, I'm out, it's a Saturday or whatever, and I'm gonna wander around with my drink. I listen. You won't say it, but there's a Dunkin Donuts in my grocery store? Yeah, so Well, I was gonna say Starbucks, Starbucks. Sorry, my grocery store is not as fancy as yours. But I Yeah. I mean, I take your point like it's we're eating while we're shopping for food,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:32
or other things. Like, why would you need to eat while you're shopping for underwear or socks or, like, housewares? I don't understand the and it boy. What I was going to with this is the number of kids who are also walking around with drinks that are well over the size that they should be. Yeah, there is no value in the calories that they're taking in there. Liquid calories are not the way to go drink water. Yeah,

Scott Benner 36:00
I was at the store the other day picking up a couple of items, and I was going to my car, and there was an older woman loading heavy stuff into her car, and she was in her mid to late 60s, she was overweight, and she was struggling with what she was doing, So I stopped to help her, and I moved two cases of bottled water into the back of her vehicle, and then an amount of Coca Cola that I think I can't explain to you how much she had, that it was so much and different, like versions. She had cans, she had two liter bottles, she had little 16 ounces. She's got herself set up for in any walk of her life. She can have a coke in her hand, yeah, jumping in the car. I'll get one in a bottle around the house, but don't want it to be flat. I'll work from the can. Want to cut back on cost. You know, we're gonna drink a bunch of it all at once. I'll open up a two liter. She's got, like, I don't know, heroin, that she could smoke some, that she can inject, something that she could blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I was like, oh, gosh, and she's not a I talked to her, she was lovely, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:07
It has nothing to do with personality or who you are as a person, but these are choices that make an immense difference. Yeah.

Scott Benner 37:14
I mean, honestly, Jenny, if, if she had 48 cans of Diet Coke, probably 816, probably 50 of the like, 12 or 16 ounce bottles and eight two liter bottles. I don't like, I don't know, like, that's not a week's worth of soda or a month's worth of soda. It's,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:35
I think she visited my store on Saturday morning. Oh, you saw her there. I saw her too. I went to pick something up. Actually, it was a, was the big thing of salad creams, is what I went to pick up, because we were all out. So anyway, I went after yoga, and the woman in front of me, she must have been literally the same woman, probably about the same age. She had in her basket several bags of the chips that we were describing before, and then lining the outside. And underneath her cart were the, I think it was the eight packs of the bottles, yeah, of coke and Dr Pepper. And the woman checking her out just came around and scanned them all. She didn't even want her taking them off, because there were so many of them. And I was like again,

Scott Benner 38:20
and in 1978 when I was seven, I had a soda once in a while, but it wasn't as available as it was. And this is my point. Like, this is where commerce has gotten in the way of your health, because they got you hooked on it, and now they're giving you an unending supply of it, and it's affordable to you, obviously. I obviously, I mean, she didn't have trouble paying for it, so, like, like, she could afford it. It's hers, like, etc. And listen, if that's what you want to do, I'm not stopping you. I'm also not, like, a holier than male person, and I'll tell you too, that I understand the flavor profile having a hold of you, and I it is only in the last two years, you know. And I'm happy to say, like, from using a GLP medication to lose weight, that also impacts the kick you get from flavor. And I'm not lying like it was really helpful to have something jump into my brain and go, Hey, you're not going to enjoy this as much. Sure, I almost feel like a heroin user who's on Suboxone, like, you know, isn't that like the medication they give you? Like so that like, you don't,

Speaker 1 39:20
I don't know you're up on that. I'm not more information. But

Scott Benner 39:24
I was given something that just turned down the judge that I got from eating food, right? And that was really helpful in breaking connections to some of that food, of course. And so I was sitting there talking to her and helping her unload her car. I wasn't judging her. I just thought, like, oh, this poor lady, like, she probably started, like I did, like, oh, we have a coke on Saturdays with lunch, and then ramped it up and ramped it up and ramped it up till it's got a hold of her. And then they made it cheap for and now she's, she's addicted to it. I don't think there's another way around it, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:55
No, I think, and you said something, that is, honestly, the way that I. See it. I used to feel like I was judging. And that's not, that's not where this comes

Scott Benner 40:06
from. Yeah, I feel bad. I feel bad. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:10
that was my reasoning for wanting to do something within this like nutrition series, is because the information is out there, only if you're willing to go to a billion sources to pick through it and get it and understand it and putting it together in one place. My hope is that I wish I could have talked to that woman, right? I wish I could have talked to her and just had a good conversation, and not from a judgment, but just an understanding like you. You're wondering what led her to having as much of that as she thought she actually needed. Right to be helpful is that's my angle. If

Scott Benner 40:47
you want to hear from the liberal side of me, I think somebody tricked her into that situation. I think for money, I you know, somebody at a business somewhere decided, if we make this a little more flavorful, a little more zesty, people eat a little more we'll put a little more. We'll put a little more salt in it. We'll put a little more fat in it. We'll get them going, like, you know, and then we'll, we'll give them more. We'll make the bags bigger then. And then, you know what? Then we'll put the price up and make the bag smaller. And then, in my mind, there is no difference between her with that soda and somebody somewhere who's struggling with an addiction to literally, like, the heroin or cocaine or something like that. Like somebody was like, Here, have a little bit. And then right, your brain lights up, and they go, you want more. You want more. Oh, now it's expensive, right? I don't see the difference. Like, I really don't like, so

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:30
there isn't a difference in putting it together like that. Sometimes that jogs somebody to say, Oh, I see now. I see how I've been tricked into thinking that this was actually nourishment for my body, when really it's just calorie value that I'm putting in. And from a again, going back to like the kid perspective, when you look at how much kids need, from an activity standpoint, their caloric needs could be very high, but what we put in as those calories can also make a difference in what their body does with it. Does it? Storm of it, more of it, right? I mean, things like fructose that comes not from not naturally, like we find it in fruits, but fructose that's actually been processed and broken down, and our body doesn't actually use it the right way. It's more prone to packing it away and storing it. And then we have kids who, again, they get addicted to a flavor. Mom and Dad unknowingly purchase it, because, hey, at least Charlie will, you know, eat this. And so then it keeps coming in, and you don't see the damage until they get to be 30 plus years old. No

Scott Benner 42:32
one is doing it on purpose. Like, look and look at me. I'm 50. Listen, I am 53 and Jenny, you we've known each other a long time now. Like, I'm a different person today than I was two years ago, right? Yeah, right. It's not like I was just like, oh, I figured it out. Like, I figured out very, very slowly over a long that idea of, like, don't eat oils that was, like, eight years ago. I was like, Oh, maybe I should cut oil up because, and we talked about this before we started. So I'll bring it up here, because I think it'll help us, like, button this up. Sure my mom was not trying to hurt me. Okay, no, but I told Jenny before we started that, because she brought up Velveeta cheese.

Speaker 1 43:08
Okay, I was like, is it still even on the market? I don't even, I don't even know how we got on

Scott Benner 43:12
it by Velveeta cheese. Yeah. And so for those of you who don't know what it is, I have, like, a very pleasant memory of a cardboard box that was probably about nine inches or a foot long, and probably four inches square, and inside of it, there was a foil thing, and it sell Velveeta across it, and you unfolded it, and then took a cheese slicer and took hunks of cheese off of it. It was not cheese. It was, what do they call it? Cheese

Speaker 1 43:41
food. Cheese food, which makes it even better. Like, food, you're putting it in there like, well, it must be food. It's

Scott Benner 43:47
cheese food, like at the at the movie theater, look at the theater that it's called buttery, flavored butter. I forget how they put it at a movie theater, but they can't call it butter because it's not butter, not buttery flavored something. But anyway, so in my life, Wonder Bread, so white bread, the bread most devoid of any value for you at all, I was given endless access to wonder bread, oil that wasn't butter and Velveeta. If I was being treated very well, they would butter the bread like put it on a pan and melt the Velveeta inside of it and give me a grilled cheese sandwich. But if no one had time for that highfalutin cooking, then what I would get was the styrofoam bread with the oil schmutz with the Velveeta inside, pressed together. And then I was explaining to Jenny that I can right now feel my teeth going through the soft bread into the oil and then breaking off the cheese food, and then it all swishing around in my mouth and me going, I love this. Yes, yeah, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me, because

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:51
even at that point, the companies had figured out how to hit your taste buds,

Scott Benner 44:55
right, right? Bread, the bread is soft. You. So, and my mom is completely sure that the grease that she bought instead of butter is better for us because it doesn't have low it's low in saturated fats, and then the cheese, cheese cow, come on, like, right? So I'm eating nothing real, correct? And it took, I'm telling you, it me up. Yeah. I am not a person who pooped great. As a person like, for life, I was holding weight, even though I wasn't taking in a bunch of food, like, right? This is a struggle for me. I might live a shorter time because of Velveeta and the other things like that. That my mom was like, this is food, right? And now, today, as an adult, I still have those textural things, like, right, like I bite into something and I want it to feel a certain way in my mouth, like, right? I want it to like, Baba. And I'm telling you, God bless the good people at Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly has, I don't know what's in that juice,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 45:55
but it has done something to change your brain to think, well, now broccoli, I can change

Scott Benner 46:00
my whole life seriously, like, I'm gonna live longer because that. I'm sure I'm gonna grow a tail 10 years from now, and it'll, it'll actually say, like, ozempic on it, or something like that, like, but it'll be like, a marketing ploy. But I'll tell you, I mean, what am I gonna do? Jay, right

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:13
now, you feel better. You can make better choices, and you almost have not that this is about those men. But over and over I hear the ability to choose wiser, because the sound that comes the inviting, I guess, nature. Voice, yeah, food. Voice, right. It's not there for like. You can bypass that Starbucks now and just do your trip at whatever shopping center you're at because you're actually you're not encouraged any longer to grab something without really desiring it.

Scott Benner 46:48
If you gave me a Velveeta sandwich right now, I'd be like, Is this a joke? And I would drop it in the garbage. But, and it's not my point, by the way, if you're eating Velveeta, I understand well, my point is this, now is the time like if you're the parents of young kids, or you're, you know, a younger person listening to this, like, you don't need to be me when you're 50, like, you could end up being Jenny, who somebody gave like, I don't know, Jenny eats flowers or something. I don't know what she does, but she's, I'm looking at her right now. She's 12 years old, and you look like you could run across the country if you decided to, like, if you just grabbed your shoes and a coat, you'd be like, Hey, I think I could just run to California. Now. I'll just be forrescu. Yeah, no, I 1,000,000% believe you could do that. By the way. Everything you need to know is, I asked Jenny one day, when you go on a car trip and you stop for gas, you don't go in and get food, and she goes, No. And I was like, how do you eat? And she's just incredibly goes to me, I bring food with me. And I was like, oh, oh, that makes sense. I was like, you've never had a Mars bar on the highway. And she's like, What are you talking about? You don't need to be Jenny, but you could make some better decisions. And by the way, all of this would help you with diabetes, right? Like, with managing insulin and all like the problems you're having. Like, listen, I am proud. I'm not gonna lie to you. I am proud to teach people how to use insulin because, and I just heard myself say this on the podcast this morning, if you're not eating in a healthy way, right, I hope that you can find a way to that, whatever that way is, but if you can't, you don't deserve to be eating in a less healthy way and have crazy blood sugars, like I am here to teach you how to use your insulin and you go apply it to the life that you choose to live. This here is us trying to say, like you could choose some things that would

Jennifer Smith, CDE 48:34
be easier and better would improve Exactly. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:38
that's all. What did we not do off of your list today that we need to finish this. I think

Jennifer Smith, CDE 48:41
the only other one that we would need to kind of move back into was the idea of exploring, kind of some of the special diets. And the reason I included it here was mainly because of some of the concepts we've already touched on. So I think next time we can add that into more advanced nutrition discussion, okay,

Scott Benner 49:02
all right, awesome. Thank you. I kept you long. I apologize this way. Yeah, hold on one second.

The podcast episode that you just enjoyed was sponsored by ever since CGM. They make the ever since 365 that thing lasts a whole year. One insertion every year. Come on. You probably feel like I'm messing with you, but I'm not. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox thanks for tuning in today, and thanks to Medtronic diabetes for sponsoring this episode. We've been talking about Medtronic mini med 780 G system today, an automated insulin delivery system that helps make diabetes management easier day and night, whether it's their meal detection technology or the Medtronic extended infusion set, it all comes together to simplify life with diabetes. Go find out more at my link, Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox Yes, hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. My diabetes Pro Tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward, practical insights that truly make a difference. This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin dosing adjustments or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over 35 years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. The Diabetes Pro Tip series runs between Episode 1001 1025 in your podcast player, or you can listen to it at Juicebox podcast.com by going up into the menu. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong wayrecording.com you.

Please support the sponsors

---

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate