#1835 Bolus 4 - Ultra Processed Food
Scott and Jenny talk about how to bolus 4 ultra processed food.
Companies that Support Juicebox
Key Takeaways
- Ultra-processed foods (UPFs) are heavily altered with industrial ingredients, additives, and preservatives designed to maximize shelf life, palatability, and corporate profitability.
- Food engineering capitalizes on addiction cues: Manufacturers find the perfect blends of fat, sugar, and salt to trigger cravings, overriding natural satiety cues and promoting overconsumption.
- The absence of Amylin makes bolusing harder: In type 1 diabetes, the lack of the hormone Amylin leads to faster gastric emptying and weaker fullness signals, meaning blood sugar from processed foods rises rapidly.
- GLP-1 medications tackle "food noise": These drugs help control constant hunger and improve satiety, enabling weight management even when consuming highly processed foods.
- Refined ingredients spike blood sugars rapidly: Highly processed products, such as high fructose corn syrup and heavily refined seed oils, lack natural fiber and nutrients, making them particularly challenging to bolus for effectively.
Resources Mentioned
- Juicebox Podcast: juiceboxpodcast.com
- The Meal Bolt Framework: juiceboxpodcast.com/meal-bolt
- Omnipod 5: omnipod.com/juicebox
- Dexcom G7: dexcom.com/juicebox
- Wrong Way Recording: wrongwayrecording.com
- Juicebox Podcast Private Facebook Group & Diabetes Pro Tip Series (Episodes 1000-1025)
Introduction & The Meal Bolt Framework
Scott Benner Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast. (0:15) In every episode of bolus four, Jenny Smith and I are gonna take a few minutes to talk through how to bolus for a single item of food. (0:23) Jenny and I are gonna follow a little bit of a road map called meal bolt. (0:28) Measure the meal, evaluate yourself, add the base units, layer a correction, build the bolus shape, offset the timing, look at the CGM, tweak for next time. (0:39) Having said that, these episodes are gonna be very conversational and not incredibly technical.
Scott Benner We want you to hear how we think about it, but we also would like you to know that this is kind of the pathway we're considering while we're talking about it. (0:52) So while you might not hear us say every letter of Miel Bolt in every episode, we will be thinking about it while we're talking. (1:00) If you wanna learn more, go to juiceboxpodcast.com/meal-bolt. (1:05) But for now, we'll find out how to bowl us for today's subject. (1:10) While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise.
Scott Benner Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.
Scott Benner Today's episode is brought to you by Omnipod. (1:32) We talk a lot about ways to lower your a one c on this podcast. (1:36) Did you know that the Omnipod five was shown to lower a one c? (1:40) That's right.
Scott Benner Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system, and it was shown to significantly improve a one c and time and range for people with type one diabetes when they switched from daily injections. (1:53) My daughter is about to turn 21 years old, and she has been wearing an Omnipod every day since she was four. (1:59) It has been a friend to our family, and I think it could be a friend to yours. (2:03) If you're ready to try Omnipod five for yourself or your family, use my link now to get started. (2:10) Omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner Get that free Omnipod five starter kit today. (2:15) Terms and conditions apply. (2:17) Eligibility may vary. (2:18) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:23) Today's episode is also sponsored by the Dexcom g seven, the same CGM that my daughter wears.
Defining Ultra-Processed Foods
Scott Benner Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox. (2:34) Alright, Jenny. (2:35) I was thinking that today we would, for the bolus four series, instead of talking about how to bolus for something today, I thought we'd dig into what ultra processing means. (2:47) Oh. (2:48) So that we can figure out what foods are made out of.
Scott Benner Right? (2:52) Because now we've been talking about bolusing for a while, and, you know, I think people can hear that maybe simpler, more organic, natural foods don't seem like they need as much finagling when it comes to bolusing. (3:07) Right? (3:07) And then they've heard us talk about, like, bolusing for donuts and stuff like that. (3:11) And I thought maybe just taking a pause here in the middle of making bolas for episodes, we could talk more about why that is.
Scott Benner So Sure. (3:19) Alright. (3:20) Are you good with that?
Jenny Smith Yeah. (3:21) I know that's kind of fun.
Scott Benner Okay. (3:23) Well, I knew you'd find it kind of fun. (3:26) And I wanna be clear to everybody. (3:28) This is a fact finding mission for me because I mean, Jenny's got the background to talk about this. (3:33) I don't fundamentally understand all this.
Scott Benner I know I don't want processed foods, and I've heard the word ultra processed, and I'm gonna try to break up the difference. (3:42) So I do I just wanna start there, like, the difference between processed and ultra processed. (3:48) And I'm gonna ask you for yours, and then I'm gonna look online while you're talking and try to round up that question and then go to the next one.
Jenny Smith Sure. (3:55) Ultra processed foods compared to unprocessed or, for lack of better word, real food, right, is the ultra processed food, also often called UPFs, just a little acronym, are made from, like, industrial based ingredients. (4:16) They've got a lot of additives in, things that don't occur in nature, most often because of the taste profile. (4:25) Mhmm. (4:26) Most often in order to preserve the product and give it the crunch, the appeal, the taste after it's been sitting in the actual package for questionable amount of time on the shelf.
Jenny Smith So ultra processed is essentially, like, making something to eat in a factory. (4:45) That's kind of how I think about it.
Scott Benner Okay. (4:48) What it tells me is the difference is mostly about how much the original food has been changed.
Jenny Smith Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. (4:54) Processed foods are foods that have been altered from their original form usually to make them safer, last longer, or be easier to prepare. (5:02) The one thing I've noticed about this, because this is not the first time I've looked into this, is that sorry. (5:07) There's people working in my house today.
Jenny Smith I can't hear anything. (5:11) Well,
Scott Benner trust me. (5:13) It's gonna get on the recording. (5:14) I'm pretty sure. (5:15) So plain yogurts, canned beans, frozen vegetables, rolled oats, cheese, peanut butter with just peanuts and salt, whole grain bread with a short ingredients list is what they're talking about as processed food, ultra processed soda, packaged snack cakes, chips with flavor coatings, candy, instant noodles with seasoning packets, chicken nuggets made from reconstituted meat, sugary breakfast cereals, packaged cookies, many frozen microwave meals, and things that say cheese product on them.
Jenny Smith I think it's also you just said two different things about process.
Scott Benner Okay.
Jenny Smith Right? (5:52) You said ultra process
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith Which is more what I defined
Scott Benner Yep.
Jenny Smith And processed. (5:58) Because quite honestly, in today's world, we don't live like it's little house on the prairie times.
Scott Benner Right?
Jenny Smith So even something like yogurt, which I wouldn't consider a processed food, it is Mhmm. (6:14) Truly. (6:15) Because unless you're going to take the milk and make it and you've got a yogurt maker at home, blah blah blah, and take the time to do it, your yogurt has been processed in order to package it, keep it contained. (6:26) They use the word safe. (6:28) It does make it more safe because if they didn't do some of the stuff that they did, even a food that's been minimally processed is gonna go bad, and you're not gonna wanna eat it.
Scott Benner Okay.
Jenny Smith Right? (6:41) So I think it's great that you brought that in because there is a definition difference.
Scott Benner I also started to say and then didn't finish my thought that when you Google or chat GPT or however you get your information, this thing is gonna be leaning towards what the FDA said is okay, what the USDA says is okay. (7:01) If you press it a little more, it will, you know, like
Jenny Smith Give you more.
Scott Benner You'll see later when we get to oil and Mhmm. (7:08) And corn syrup and stuff like that. (7:09) But, anyway, so ultra processed foods are gonna have a lot of chemicals in them or Yes. (7:15) Preserve but more specifically, preservatives.
Jenny Smith But Typically yes.
Scott Benner Good. (7:20) Good.
Jenny Smith Preservatives, but also things like I think we've looked it up before. (7:24) Things that are anti caking agents. (7:27) They don't let the product get all crunchy and gross when it's supposed to be a powder Mhmm. (7:32) Or they help it to retain the crunch and not get soggy. (7:37) Again, all of these things that we've learned in industrializing our world
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith Have come about because lives have gotten busier. (7:48) We need something that's quick, easy, fast to actually do. (7:52) We don't have time to slice up the potato and put it in the food dehydrator or the air fryer to actually make our own potato chips. (8:00) We wanna buy them easy to crunch out of the bag.
The Engineering of Palatability
Scott Benner Yeah. (8:02) I've had this conversation already. (8:05) I'm having it again with you. (8:06) But I asked then, like, why should I care about this? (8:08) Mhmm.
Scott Benner And it was interesting because it didn't answer me the way I thought it was going to. (8:12) I thought it was gonna say, like, well, there's additives and preservatives and chemicals. (8:15) It said more about, like, that there's a it's just very low in nutritional value. (8:21) Yes. (8:21) And high intake is linked to chronic disease, but it's more about the the flavor and the salt, sugar, fat Fat.
Scott Benner Mix that that slurry they make then spread on your Doritos or wherever they wherever it goes. (8:38) Right? (8:39) Yes. (8:40) It's a perfect blend of the things that your body desires.
Jenny Smith 100%.
Scott Benner Right. (8:45) Right.
Jenny Smith They have hit it. (8:47) I can't remember the name of the book, but years ago, there was a gentleman who wrote a book all about this. (8:53) It was all about the food in quote, unquote, food industry learning to capitalize on fat, sugar, and salt, and how to combine them from a chemical structure that it hits your taste bud the way that people want it to, and then it hits the brain signals that say, take another. (9:15) Yes. (9:16) Take another.
Jenny Smith Keep coming back for it. (9:18) And they've they've figured it out. (9:20) I mean, they are absolute, like, chemical geniuses in terms of packing a whole bunch that no human body needs in it.
Scott Benner Mhmm. (9:28) So I kinda then I picked her around. (9:30) I was like, why would someone do this? (9:31) So I tried to like, I acted naive for a second. (9:34) Was like, why if I was making food, why would I do this?
Scott Benner The answer back was higher margin products, longer shelf life, less waste. (9:41) It creates repeat buying because it's hyperpalatable, and it's also very repeatable. (9:48) So you know that when you buy the chip, it's gonna taste the same time after time after time. (9:53) Like, it's there waiting for you, and you know what you're gonna get when you get it. (9:56) It talked a little bit about the addictiveness, not as much like drugs, but more about just, like, repeat consumption, like, the idea of and because I said, I was like, well, I must be able to eat some of this without it hurting me.
Scott Benner Like, can my body process canola oil? (10:09) And, you know, it's like, yeah, your body can process canola oil. (10:12) It can process Sure. (10:13) Yeah. (10:13) Yeah.
Scott Benner Then it becomes more about it's not about having a potato chip. (10:18) It's about having a bag of potato chips. (10:20) And it's not even about having a bag of potato chips. (10:22) It's about having 50 bags of potato chips. (10:24) Right?
Scott Benner Like Yeah. (10:25) Over a year or two. (10:27) Like, I don't even know how to quantify that. (10:28) Like, I wonder how many bags of potato chips a person eats in a year. (10:32) It could be probably more than I think.
Jenny Smith It could be a lot. (10:36) And I think that that also the consideration of I mean, the word addiction is correct to use here.
Scott Benner Okay.
Jenny Smith Not in the sense like alcohol or drugs or whatever, but honestly, if we imagine that the ultra processed foods are similar in effect over a long period of time on our internal health, on our vessels, on our nerves. (11:02) I quite honestly, right on every little cell in our body that's trying to make energy the right way
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith They become addictive. (11:10) And so, I mean, what's the is it Pringles? (11:13) It's once you pop, you can't stop.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Jenny Smith Right? (11:16) It's so salty. (11:16) It's salty. (11:18) It's crunchy. (11:18) It's got all of the hit points that you want, and you don't consider the calorie
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith That you end up taking in. (11:28) With a product that's mostly it's like air, and you eat it, and you take another one, and you take another one. (11:34) It's very easy to probably eat half a can of them without realizing, and then you've ended up with 600 calories worth of you're still hungry. (11:45) Yeah. (11:45) And then you go to something else.
Jenny Smith Whereas had you sat down to a 600 calorie meal that's truly real, mostly not high processed food. (11:56) Right? (11:56) Mhmm. (11:57) You are going to have a fullness, satiety factor in the aftermath of a meal. (12:01) You're gonna have a wealth of nutrients.
Jenny Smith You're gonna have all of the macronutrients. (12:06) You're just gonna have better for your body as well as that feeling of I ate a meal, and I am I'm full. (12:12) I'm satisfied.
Scott Benner So I asked the question next, and I have, you know, have this experience, so I know this is true. (12:19) And I almost I almost resist saying this out loud, but I've been on a GLP now for, like, three years. (12:26) Mhmm. (12:26) I can eat poorly for days at a time now and not gain weight. (12:32) So that's a little bit of gives with one hand, takes away with the other kind of a situation because you have to, like, thoughtfully anybody who's on a GLP who's trying to do what they're supposed to be doing is always telling themselves, I gotta take in a bunch of protein.
Scott Benner I gotta keep moving. (12:48) But, like, I need chicken. (12:50) I need beef. (12:50) I need I need protein protein eggs. (12:53) Like, I think about that all the time.
Scott Benner And by the way, that has not been easy lately as four steaks at Costco have gone from 40 to $90 in, the last, like, three months. (13:05) It's really crazy. (13:07) Wow. (13:08) So I'm trying to be aware of that while we're talking about this. (13:11) The food is getting, like, very expensive.
Scott Benner But yet so I said, like, why is that? (13:15) And I said, beyond like, at first, it was funny because at first, it ants I said, why would GLPs why would GLPs stop me from gaining weight from eating ultra when I eat ultra processed foods? (13:26) And the first answer that came back was like, oh, well, it you know, satiety. (13:29) It makes you not as hungry so you don't eat as much. (13:31) And I said, no.
Scott Benner That is not what's happening. (13:33) Like, I was like, I can eat as much as I I know how to eat through a GLP at this point. (13:36) Like, I understand how to, like, manipulate the whole thing. (13:40) Even if I eat that stuff and in excess even, why don't I gain weight? (13:44) And it started talking about insulin and slowing gastric emptying and kind of the ways my body's manipulating it.
Scott Benner And then I said, well, then are ultra processed foods the problem or the way my body works the problem? (13:58) It thought the ultra processed foods were the problem, by the way. (14:01) But Yeah. (14:02) I was just like, maybe we haven't maybe we haven't evolved enough yet. (14:06) I'm not a historian, but the way food's made now is obviously first about money.
Scott Benner This is the next thing that obviously is upsetting. (14:14) You look into all the companies that own all of the different things. (14:18) Pepsi and Coke, for example, own a ton of companies that make food.
Jenny Smith Right.
Scott Benner Okay. (14:23) They're trying to make money, but they're also trying to feed billions more people than used to be standing on the planet. (14:29) So I understand that even. (14:30) Right? (14:31) But I just it gives me the same feeling.
Scott Benner And I I'm I'll be brief here because I know I've probably said this before in the podcast. (14:38) But when I caught my little brother smoking when he was a teenager, I said, if I was you, I'd think about the eight rich guys sitting around a table laughing that you bought those cigarettes and that they're rich because of it. (14:51) And I bet you none of them smoke. (14:53) And, you know, so I I I do feel that way about a lot of this food sometimes.
Midroll Sponsors: Dexcom G7 & Omnipod 5
Scott Benner The Dexcom g seven is sponsoring this episode of the juice box podcast, and it features a lightning fast thirty minute warm up time.
Scott Benner That's right. (15:09) From the time you put on the Dexcom g seven till the time you're getting readings, thirty minutes. (15:15) That's pretty great. (15:16) It also has a twelve hour grace period, so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. (15:22) All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable, and light, these things, in my opinion, make the Dexcom g seven a no brainer.
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Scott Benner Alerts and alarms that are customizable so that you can be alerted at the levels that make sense to you. (15:54) Dexcom.com/juicebox. (15:56) Links in the show notes. (15:57) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com to Dexcom and all the sponsors. (16:02) When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful.
Scott Benner Today's episode is brought to you by Omnipod. (16:12) We talk a lot about ways to lower your a one c on this podcast. (16:16) Did you know that the Omnipod five was shown to lower a one c? (16:20) That's right. (16:20) Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system, and it was shown to significantly improve a one c end time and range for people with type one diabetes when they switched from daily injections.
Scott Benner My daughter is about to turn 21 years old, and she has been wearing an Omnipod every day since she was four. (16:39) It has been a friend to our family, and I think it could be a friend to yours. (16:43) If you're ready to try Omnipod five for yourself or your family, use my link now to get started. (16:49) Omnipod.com/juicebox. (16:52) Get that free Omnipod five starter kit today.
Scott Benner Terms and conditions apply. (16:56) Eligibility may vary. (16:58) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod dot com slash juice box.
Food Noise and Satiety
Jenny Smith And what goes along with it if you're thinking that way is if you can wrap your mind around that, you're probably the person that's gonna start to make changes. (17:13) You're the person, as you said before, how many bags of potato chips could somebody possibly eat? (17:19) And as somebody who has a mindset of occasional in their habits
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith It's much easier for them to say, even without a GLP or anything else that affects satiety, it's easier for them to say, I'm gonna take a handful, and that's what I have on my plate, and I don't need to go back for more. (17:37) There's something in kind of the the way that we end up learning and thinking about food intake over time that is also really hard to navigate. (17:49) Thus, an interesting reason that GLPs seem to work for a lot of people who had no ability to control before is it brings in you know, we've heard it many times called food noise. (18:04) It brings in the ability to control that food noise. (18:09) It almost brings recognition of how much you've eaten or what you've eaten.
Jenny Smith Even if it isn't an apple, you're still eating ultra high processed food. (18:18) It brings in a little bit more recognition of portion
Scott Benner Yeah.
Jenny Smith Than you may have otherwise had. (18:25) And then the idea of looking at all the foods in a store that come in a package and seeing the brand name on that package has come from, as you just said, a big corporation that has figured out fat, salt, and sugar. (18:40) Yeah. (18:40) Figured it out.
Scott Benner I would just tell you be insulted that somebody's taking advantage of you like that to take you take your money from you with no regard for what it's gonna do to your health.
Jenny Smith Right.
Scott Benner I do wonder as you were talking, I thought, I wonder if food because food noise is a is a trendy thing to say right now. (18:56) Right?
Jenny Smith It is.
Scott Benner But Mhmm. (18:57) Did it exist five hundred years ago?
Jenny Smith I I don't
Scott Benner Or did people just call that hunger? (19:02) Or, like, do know what I mean? (19:03) Or, like or has the processing of the food done something to us that makes it so that there's this, like, background noise of I don't know. (19:15) Or is it just a thing that, like, you know, people say nowadays? (19:18) Like, you know?
Jenny Smith I think it's a combination of those things. (19:22) We have if you take five hundred years ago
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith Okay. (19:27) And gosh, that was that was a long time ago. (19:30) Right?
Scott Benner That's six of my lives, hopefully, if I make it to 80, which by the way, I've been thinking about a lot lately. (19:36) I don't don't do that. (19:37) By the way, the actuarial table says I have, like, 1,400 weekends left. (19:41) So Oh. (19:42) Don't look into that.
Jenny Smith I won't be looking at that at all. (19:46) No. (19:47) As you say, like, it struck me something you said just before about, one, we have a lot of people on the planet to feed Mhmm. (19:54) Comparative to five hundred years ago. (19:58) The second piece of that is we are no longer the majority of people on the planet are no longer in a realm of understanding agriculture in order to actually support their family.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith Right? (20:10) I I have mean, a lovely garden, but would it a 100% support our four person family? (20:18) No. (20:19) Yeah. (20:19) By no means.
Jenny Smith I I have to go to the grocery store. (20:22) Right?
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith And so therein food is widely available now comparative to five hundred years ago. (20:29) Yeah. (20:29) And it was much more the the true, again, hunter gatherer type of kind of idea. (20:36) I have to do something to get my food. (20:38) I'm gonna make the most out of the food that I get.
Jenny Smith I'm gonna preserve it. (20:41) I'm gonna pack it away. (20:42) I'm gonna do all of these things through the course of the year. (20:46) We also now have strawberries in December when they would not grow on the ground outside my house. (20:53) Right?
Jenny Smith So we have the advantage of a wealth of whatever type of food, unprocessed, processed. (21:01) Yeah. (21:02) And we've taken away the hunger cues in a way because it becomes so normal to just have food present at every every occasion that you end up coming to. (21:16) There is always who's gonna bring the donuts? (21:18) Who's gonna bring the muffins?
Jenny Smith Who's gonna bring the bars or whatever it's going to be? (21:23) Right?
Scott Benner My wife said to me last night, do you wanna go watch, TV before we go to bed? (21:28) And I said, sure. (21:29) It's like 09:30, 10:00. (21:31) And I thought, oh, I gotta get a drink to take with me. (21:33) And then I stopped and I went, why am I doing that?
Scott Benner I'm like, it's 09:30. (21:38) I'm good.
Jenny Smith Do I
Scott Benner need I've drank as much as I'm gonna drink today. (21:40) What am I drinking something for? (21:42) Like, like, I actually I actually thought that. (21:44) Was like, why am I gonna so I thought, well, I'll bring water with me just in case. (21:48) Mhmm.
Scott Benner But, like, I was thinking of, like, something else. (21:51) And then I was like, what what am I doing? (21:54) Let me say this about I don't again, I'm not a historian. (21:57) Right? (21:58) Isn't it interesting that people used to have way more kids?
Scott Benner Like, were pumping kids out forever. (22:03) And if you're and by the way, if you blew your lady up making kids, you'd grab another lady and start pumping them out with her too. (22:09) Like, so you're making know you know what happened? (22:10) Those ladies didn't they didn't live very long.
Jenny Smith Neither did men, honestly.
Scott Benner No. (22:14) Well, what you would do, Jen, I don't know if you know this, is your wife, you'd you'd you had her pregnant so many times, she'd just explode or something. (22:19) And then, like, then you'd go find I
Jenny Smith don't think so much.
Scott Benner Technically how it happens. (22:24) But then, like, then you go find some lady whose husband got run over by a horse and you're like, hey. (22:28) Come watch my kids and I'll pay for yours and why don't we make five more while we're at it? (22:32) And but then those people, they died more frequently. (22:35) They went hungry.
Scott Benner They got sick sooner. (22:38) Like, so many more people were being made back then, I bet, than are being made now, but we retain them so much better now. (22:44) Yes. (22:44) You know, like, not for and it is really kind of a I wanna say, it is kind of a miracle that people live as long as they do now. (22:51) And it's got a lot to do with the access to food and shelter and and etcetera.
Scott Benner But, man, we could be we could be doing it better. (22:57) Let me pivot here to people with type one diabetes for a second, unless you have something you wanna say.
The Role of Amylin in Type 1 Diabetes
Jenny Smith I wonder if you're gonna bring up the same thing I was gonna bring up, but go ahead.
Scott Benner This would be crazy if we do that. (23:06) I wanted to talk about Amylin. (23:08) Is that what you were because because if that was what were gonna say, then we should really get married because It have been crazy.
Jenny Smith In a way, not Amlan directly. (23:18) Okay. (23:18) My point was, as we were just talking about availability of food and what kind of boils down to is, like, hunger cues as you mentioned. (23:27) Right?
Scott Benner K.
Jenny Smith Eons ago, you did. (23:30) When you were hungry, your body was absolutely signaling to you. (23:34) It's time to take something in. (23:36) Or gosh, it's lunchtime. (23:38) Mom's calling us in from the field.
Jenny Smith It's time to actually eat something in between. (23:42) There was not something called a snack.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Jenny Smith Like, snack has become such a very, nowadays type of thing to I mean, snacks in the car for kids traveling ten minutes across the city because they can't stand it without a snack. (23:55) Like right? (23:56) So
Scott Benner No. (23:57) I mean, yeah, there's food there's literally food everywhere.
Jenny Smith Food every my point, though, for type one diabetes or diabetes in general is that I'm trying to think how to say it. (24:07) We all have a disordered way of thinking about food.
Scott Benner Okay.
Jenny Smith We are we don't all have eating disorders, but because of the nature, excuse me, of how we have to manage blood sugar Mhmm. (24:23) It includes the hormone insulin.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Jenny Smith Our body doesn't make it the right way in response to something happening that we take in. (24:32) So we have to cognitively pay attention to insulin, food intake, and we have now navigated food has to come in because I have to take my insulin. (24:46) Right? (24:46) Right. (24:47) And it has taken away for I don't know how many people over and over, I hear people comment.
Jenny Smith I'm not I don't feel hunger anymore. (24:54) I eat because I think it's time to eat, but I don't really have hunger cues most of the time. (24:59) And that's a disjointed way of considering why you should put food in your body as a basic need. (25:06) Are you saying
Scott Benner you hear that from a lot of people with type one diabetes?
Jenny Smith Absolutely. (25:11) A 100% that the food hunger cues are gone almost.
Scott Benner Arden, all the time, she's like, I'm I'm hungry. (25:21) I need to eat. (25:22) But she's like, I don't, like, I don't crave anything. (25:25) Or and that's with or without by there, it's Yeah.
Jenny Smith Yeah. (25:29) It's it's more it's not so much not being hungry. (25:34) It's almost like the hunger cues are they're not right. (25:38) It art you said Arden kind of just is I could nibble on something, like, all the time. (25:42) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith Right? (25:44) And that's that's not right. (25:46) Mhmm. (25:46) Like, our body, once we sit and eat something, should feel satisfied, and we shouldn't feel like we could grab something again from the cupboard. (25:55) So I just wanted to throw that in.
Scott Benner I would imagine too that in a in a previous, like, time line, you were eating to fuel literally to fuel yourself because you were gonna go keep doing something aggressively, probably active. (26:08) And then come like you said, come in from the field, eat again, then get the hell back out there and do it again. (26:13) And then come in and eat and then go to bed and then get the hell up and eat and do it again, like that kind of thing. (26:18) I I mean, my life is certainly
Jenny Smith We don't live like that.
Scott Benner I mean, you don't live like that. (26:22) You but you add exercise to it to take almost to, like I guess, you're you're pretending you're in a field by Yeah. (26:29) Running around and lifting things and stuff like that. (26:32) I I try very hard not to do that. (26:35) Back to amylin.
Scott Benner Make sure this is right. (26:37) In someone with type one diabetes, beta cells release insulin and amylin together at meals. (26:41) Amylin helps with three big things, slows gastric emptying, suppresses inappropriate post meal glucagon, and increases satiety through central signaling. (26:51) In type one, because the beta cells are damaged, amylin is also deficient, not just the insulin. (26:56) Is that correct?
Jenny Smith That is correct.
Scott Benner Okay. (26:59) So, practically, it says food may leave your stomach faster. (27:02) Fullness signals may be weaker. (27:04) Post meal glucose rises, may rise faster, and it can create a weird cycle of eat less and and less I'm satisfied less being satisfied signaling, so you still feel hungry and snack more.
Jenny Smith Right. (27:17) Which kind of goes along with my consideration of, again, listening to so many people over and over. (27:23) It's like, they don't really have the right hunger signaling
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith Because I mean, until Simlin, which is a created Amlan product, came out years ago and was never really
Scott Benner truly catch on.
Jenny Smith Well, it really never caught on. (27:41) And a big piece of the reason is because it did really require a good practitioner to help the person figure out how to use it well for them.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith This is a finicky it's definitely a finicky
Scott Benner It wasn't easy to dose?
Jenny Smith Thing hormone. (27:58) It was not easy to use.
Scott Benner Okay.
Jenny Smith But it gives as you, you know, just gave the whole definition about it. (28:05) Absolutely gives the reasoning as to why we have such ineffective cues.
Scott Benner Yeah. (28:12) I just interviewed, like, a 23 year old girl the other day, and she's like, I just went down the rabbit hole of amylin, and, I didn't realize any of this. (28:21) And she's just you know, she's had diabetes, she was, like, 17 or 18. (28:24) And she's like, I am hungry constantly. (28:27) Like, you know, I'm just always hungry and never feel full and, like, the whole thing.
Scott Benner And she's like, I'm gaining weight now. (28:34) So they put her on a GL. (28:34) I mean, GLPs are gonna probably help a lot of people with type one with this, I would I would imagine.
How High Fructose Corn Syrup is Made
Scott Benner Pivoting back, I asked, some questions that I wanted the answers to. (28:45) Like, how does cornstarch get made? (28:47) Because I feel like understanding how it gets made, or, you know, and then how they use it to make high fructose corn syrup because I I'm like, I don't really know. (28:56) So do you know how high fructose corn syrup gets made?
Jenny Smith Well, I know that corn syrup and high fructose corn syrup are slightly different.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Jenny Smith I know that they're derivatives of corn starch, which comes from corn. (29:13) Mhmm. (29:15) I don't know that I know the process of it. (29:19) I would expect that
Scott Benner they have to
Jenny Smith do some type of pulling of the starchy, sugary through some hydration process. (29:29) They probably use some type of enzyme to pull things out further. (29:34) I would expect, I'm just thinking like food science that I learned eons ago.
Scott Benner Love watching you do this because this reminds me of the time we tested out the bolus, estimator, and I was like, Jenny's getting this exactly right. (29:47) Yeah. (29:47) Yeah. (29:48) Hey. (29:48) Okay.
Scott Benner You start with corn. (29:49) Corn corn kernels are milled in to sep to separate out the starch from the protein, the fiber, and the oil. (29:57) Okay. (29:58) Then you turn the starch into glucose. (30:00) Corn starch is a long chain of glucose molecules.
Scott Benner Manufacturers break that starch down with enzymes. (30:07) Oh. (30:07) So this typical sequence would be starch slurry. (30:10) By the way, every time I hear the word slurry, I think I should do better for myself. (30:14) Starch slurry is prepared.
Scott Benner Alpha amylase starts chopping the starch into shorter chains. (30:21) Go. (30:21) Here we go. (30:22) Gluca gluco amylase breaks those chains further into mostly glucose. (30:28) At this point, you basically have corn syrup, which is mostly glucose.
Scott Benner Then you have to convert some of the glucose into fructose. (30:35) So now here comes the high fructose part. (30:38) It says, the syrup is passed over an enzyme called glucose isomerase. (30:43) That enzyme rearranges some glucose molecules into fructose. (30:47) This does not convert all of it.
Scott Benner A common first product is at around 42% fructose. (30:53) The rest is still mostly glucose at that point. (30:56) That's often called HFCS 42 in Jesus. (31:01) If you need a higher level of fructose needed, the manufacturer wants it sweeter, for example, they can separate and concentrate the fructose rich portion often used processing like chromo topographic separation, and that can produce a much higher fructose stream such as HFCS 90. (31:19) Now we're almost done.
Scott Benner They blend the streams together to get a commercial product they want. (31:25) Common versions are HFCS 42, which is often used in baked goods, processed foods, and some beverages. (31:34) Then there's HFCS 55 common in soft drinks, and HFCS 90, usually not used directly much, mostly used to blend into other HFCS grades. (31:45) Then they filter it, purify it, adjust it for concentration, store, and ship it as liquid sweetener. (31:51) The liquid form is one reason the industry likes it because it's easy to pump, blend, and handle in large scale food production.
Scott Benner Why do they manufacture it this way? (31:59) It's cheap, stable, easy to transport in liquid systems, and sweet enough for beverages and packaged foods.
Jenny Smith Can I ask so the numbers behind those, is that the percentage
Scott Benner Looks like the of? (32:13) Oh, of the oh, yeah. (32:14) Because the first one is 42%. (32:16) They call it 42, 55, and 90. (32:19) Oh, look at you.
Scott Benner Look at you paying attention.
Jenny Smith It's you know?
Scott Benner I know. (32:22) Yeah. (32:23) But
Jenny Smith you would have never thought that.
Scott Benner What is that? (32:26) It's gotta
Jenny Smith be percentage of the amount, and that's the reason that it's better in one one product. (32:32) I won't even use the word food.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Jenny Smith It's better in one product compared to another. (32:37) And so if we if we break this down for anybody to understand, Quite honestly, the whole process that you just went through. (32:49) Mhmm. (32:50) That is that's so much chemical engineering.
Scott Benner And processing and and reprocessing and then want and heating.
Jenny Smith And just exceeding and processing and pulling it through and adding, like, adding all of these things that weren't meant to be. (33:06) Like, I pull an apple off of the tree, man, and that tree did everything that the universe was meant for the tree to do. (33:12) There was no engineering.
Scott Benner It says here, table sugar and HF's high fructose corn syrup wind up in pretty similar places chemically, but they start differently, are built differently, and are handled differently in manufacturing. (33:25) Mhmm. (33:25) Sucrose is a single molecule made of one glucose, one fructose. (33:29) These two sugars are bonded together. (33:31) They usually come from sugarcane or sugar beets.
Scott Benner Mhmm. (33:33) They crush the cane or slice the beets, extract the sugar rich juice, clean and filter it, evaporate off the water, crystallize the sucrose, separate crystals from syrup, dry and refine. (33:43) That's how they make that's how sugar is made.
The History of Coca-Cola and Seed Oils
Scott Benner I wonder if we can find out the original ingredients in Coke.
Jenny Smith Oh, that would be curious.
Scott Benner I wonder if we can find out what that is. (33:58) Because I'm gonna guess it's water, sugar, coloring, like like this probably would
Jenny Smith Would expect caramel coloring.
Scott Benner Cocaine, by the way, but that's not the point of this. (34:09) It's not working.
Jenny Smith Is that is that a myth that
Scott Benner I don't know.
Jenny Smith Used to have it in there? (34:14) I I feel like that's a myth. (34:16) But
Scott Benner The original Coca Cola was an 1886 thing soda foundation syrup created by John Pemberton. (34:23) Thanks, John. (34:24) The company does not publicly disclose the exact formula, but its own history confirms the early drink was a syrup mix with carbonated water named for the cocoa leaf and kola nut. (34:34) Oh. (34:35) Sugar, water, caramel for color.
Scott Benner That's what I couldn't think of. (34:38) Cocoa leaf extract, kola nut extract. (34:41) That's where the caffeine comes from. (34:42) Citric acid, lime juice, vanilla. (34:45) Flavored oils, spices often described in later reconstruction formulas as things like orange, lemon, cinnamon, coriander, nutmeg oils.
Scott Benner That doesn't seem so bad. (34:56) Oh, two important historical notes. (34:58) Yes. (34:58) The earliest Coca Cola did contain cocaine because cocoa leaf extract at the time still carried cocaine alkaloids that was later removed. (35:08) The company name still reflects the original cocoa and cola ingredients.
Scott Benner How about that? (35:13) Is that where cola came from? (35:15) Is that why because, like, in your part of the woods, what do they they call it pop. (35:19) Right? (35:20) Or am I wrong?
Jenny Smith Like That's more it's honestly pop is more like Illinois.
Scott Benner Yeah. (35:29) There are parts of the world where you order a pop, and then you have to tell them what one. (35:33) Like, you say, I just want a pop, and then they look at you you go Sprite. (35:36) Did you know that? (35:37) I didn't know that.
Scott Benner Yeah. (35:38) I would never say that. (35:40) I'd be like don't
Jenny Smith also We
Scott Benner call it
Jenny Smith we call it soda, but yeah. (35:42) I
Scott Benner Okay. (35:44) Alright. (35:44) Hold on. (35:45) Back to my list. (35:45) Do we have time?
Scott Benner Okay. (35:47) So we can't go into all the things I looked up, like how canola is produced, crushed seeds, heat, extract, oil, refined bleach, deodorized bleach. (35:58) Rape, the rapeseed oil, actually did start out as as a motor lubricant, and then they adjusted it so that you can eat it. (36:09) Lucky you. (36:11) But then, again, it I said, they healthy?
Scott Benner And they said they are safe in regulated amounts. (36:17) That doesn't seem like yes to me, by the way, when that's the answer. (36:21) They don't add health benefits at all. (36:25) You know? (36:25) So moderation's gonna be
Jenny Smith In fact, they're often often and maybe you said the the difference between the type of omegas that's present. (36:34) Right? (36:35) Most of the seed oils and things that we're talking about have a much higher percent of the omega six comparative to the omega threes, which are more from a cardiovascular benefit standpoint and anti inflammation and etcetera etcetera.
Scott Benner And as you said in the past, the the things get fortified all the time because when they process, they strip out all the nutrients, and they gotta throw something back into it so you're not just eating a filler. (36:58) I did, look a little bit into some of the list of ingredients. (37:04) You should look them up yourselves. (37:06) I looked into the companies that own other things. (37:11) I I don't wanna dig too far down a rabbit hole or feel political for people, but, like, Nestle, Pepsi, Coke Mhmm.
Scott Benner All are also invested in heavily by places like BlackRock, Vanguard, and, you know, the S and P five hundred in general. (37:27) So Right. (37:27) Yeah. (37:28) Money people need those things to make money and they need you to buy more and so on and so forth. (37:35) You know?
Jenny Smith And they have no interest in
Scott Benner Your health. (37:37) I don't believe. (37:38) Health. (37:38) Yeah. (37:39) Yeah.
Scott Benner No. (37:39) And even if they did, I would imagine they could just buy a couple of hospitals and then get your money on the back end too.
Jenny Smith There you go.
Scott Benner Yeah. (37:49) Yeah. (37:49) I'll take your money for the soda, and then I'll take your money for the, for the health the health things that happened to you afterwards. (37:56) They could get you coming and going as they say. (37:59) Anybody who's ever seen an eighties movie, just remember the first hit's always free.
Scott Benner And then, then after that, you're, you're on the corner. (38:08) I almost said paying with forget what I forget what I was saying about it. (38:12) I was gonna say you're paying with your accent at the end, but I guess it's probably that's how it gets you, Jenny. (38:17) Yeah. (38:17) Yeah.
Scott Benner It's pretty right.
Jenny Smith Trust go.
Final Thoughts
Scott Benner Anything I left out of this little chat that you'd like to add?
Jenny Smith Oh, it no. (38:23) We could go probably on for three more hours.
Scott Benner I honestly think so. (38:28) Yeah.
Jenny Smith Yeah.
Scott Benner I mean, you could dig into every listen. (38:32) I again, Jenny's, you know, got the background, but I honestly just so you know where this episode came from, this was something I was thinking about. (38:41) And I got up one morning and turned on my chat GPT and started talking to it. (38:47) I was like, explain this to me. (38:48) Explain that to me.
Scott Benner And I just kept asking a bunch of questions. (38:51) And then at the end, I said, hey. (38:52) Put all my questions in a list because I think I'm gonna use them to make a podcast.
Jenny Smith No. (38:56) It it is very much like a rabbit hole, quite honestly.
Scott Benner You can you can get lost really quickly.
Jenny Smith You can. (39:02) Yeah. (39:03) So
Scott Benner I mean, in the end, around diabetes, I let let's fold it up like this. (39:08) Right? (39:08) The more processed foods you're using, the more fillers, the more emulsifiers, the the more shelf stabilizing chemicals, the harder this stuff's gonna be to bolus for probably. (39:22) And because it's so broken down, your body's gonna grab that sugar out of it so quickly. (39:27) It's gonna shoot your blood sugar up so fast.
Scott Benner So if that's if you're wondering why cereal makes your blood sugar shoot up like that, like, this is this is kind of the basis of why.
Jenny Smith I Here you are.
Scott Benner Yeah. (39:37) I would say take your time, and if you're interested, you know, go look it up a little bit and read through it and find out where I was right and where I was wrong and what you care about.
Jenny Smith Then as, you know, kind of a end note Mhmm. (39:50) What you learn, take a look at take a look at your own intake, your own grocery list, and choose maybe one or two pieces that you can change, that you can look at differently and say, well, we could do this instead of doing this. (40:07) I could whole make that by using spices instead of using the packet in this product. (40:13) Right? (40:13) I mean, there are a lot of changes that are not with, again, the cost of food today being what it is.
Jenny Smith I understand entirely. (40:21) I have a family to feed as well, but there are some things that are honestly more cost effective when you really start breaking it down.
Scott Benner It becomes so much about time. (40:31) I've even see my my wife has come home and been like, I got this packet of sauce to put on chicken. (40:36) I'm like, why don't you just kill us all? (40:38) You know? (40:39) Like, that's wouldn't it be quicker to smother us with a pillow, Kelly?
Scott Benner A couple of things. (40:44) A, she's like, I liked it. (40:46) I had it once and it tasted good. (40:48) And I'm like, okay. (40:49) Well, they got her there, you know?
Scott Benner And then Right. (40:51) B, she's like, it's easy. (40:53) You fry up the chicken and then you dump it on and, you know, cook it for eight more minutes and it's finished. (40:59) And I'm working and you're working and blah blah blah. (41:01) And I it is I mean, it's not is the rest of it's not lost to me.
Scott Benner But a lot like talking about the diabetes, like, I think we can discuss the truth behind this Yes. (41:11) And not be insulting people at the same time. (41:14) Like Right. (41:15) You know, I I Yeah. (41:16) If you can't afford it or you don't have the time or I'm not shaming you about it, but you still should understand what's happening, you know?
Jenny Smith Right.
Scott Benner Yeah. (41:23) National estimates 55 of calories Americans consume come from ultra processed food. (41:29) 55% of your calories. (41:31) That's crazy. (41:32) Mhmm.
Scott Benner Yeah. (41:33) Yeah. (41:33) Alright. (41:34) This is gonna make me sad if we keep going. (41:35) I'm gonna stop now.
Scott Benner Thank you, Jenny. (41:36) Have a nice weekend.
Jenny Smith Yeah. (41:38) Of course. (41:38) You too. (41:38) Bye.
Outro & Resources
Scott Benner This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Omnipod five. (41:51) Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system that's been shown to significantly improve a one c and time and range for people with type one diabetes when they've switched from daily injections. (42:02) Learn more and get started today at omnipod.com/juicebox. (42:06) At my link, you can get a free starter kit right now. (42:09) Terms and conditions apply.
Scott Benner Eligibility may vary. (42:12) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (42:19) Today's episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g seven, and the Dexcom g seven warms up in just thirty minutes. (42:27) Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox. (42:33) Okay.
Scott Benner Well, here we are at the end of the episode. (42:36) You're still with me? (42:37) Thank you. (42:37) I really do appreciate that. (42:39) What else could you do for me?
Scott Benner Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? (42:45) Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram, TikTok. (42:54) Oh, gosh. (42:55) Here's one. (42:55) Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page.
Scott Benner You don't wanna miss please, do you not know about the private group? (43:05) You have to join the private group. (43:07) As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. (43:10) They're active talking about diabetes. (43:13) Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now.
Scott Benner And I'm there all the time. (43:18) Tag me. (43:19) I'll say hi. (43:26) My diabetes pro tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward practical insights that truly make a difference. (43:35) This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin, dosing adjustments, or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control.
Scott Benner I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over thirty five years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. (43:55) The diabetes pro tip series runs between episode one thousand and one thousand twenty five in your podcast player, or you can listen to it at juiceboxpodcast.com by going up into the menu. (44:06) Have a podcast? (44:07) Want it to sound fantastic? (44:09) Wrongwayrecording.com.
