#1848 Boggs Family
Scott and Shannon Boggs discuss her daughter's traumatic DKA diagnosis, managing Hashimoto's, the hidden burdens of diabetes service dogs, and navigating social media fame while protecting your peace.
Companies that Support Juicebox
Key Takeaways
- Trust your intuition as a parent and advocate for a change in doctors if your child's endocrinologist dismisses consistently high blood sugars or ignores other autoimmune symptoms.
- Type 1 diabetes is frequently accompanied by other autoimmune conditions, such as Hashimoto's or celiac disease; regular screening and paying attention to subtle signs like lethargy or skin changes is vital.
- While a diabetes service dog can be a wonderful asset, they also require significant financial resources, continuous training, and add extra daily responsibilities that aren't ideal for every family dynamic.
- If you build a social media following around diabetes, prioritize community connection and authenticity over algorithmic metrics to protect your peace and avoid burnout.
- As children with T1D grow older, parents must gradually relinquish control—allowing teenagers to manage their own routines and choices fosters the lasting independence they need for adulthood.
Resources Mentioned
Introduction and Sponsors
Scott Benner Welcome back, friends. You are listening to the Juice Box podcast.
Shannon Boggs My name is Shannon Boggs. I am the mom of three kids. My oldest has type one diabetes. She was diagnosed about three years ago. Over the last three years, we've been learning to navigate the highs and lows and figure life out.
Scott Benner If you'd like to hear about diabetes management in easy to take in bits, check out the small sips. That's the series on the Juice Box podcast that listeners are talking about like it's a cheat code. These are perfect little bursts of clarity, one person said. I finally understood things I've heard a 100 times. Short, simple, and somehow exactly what I needed. People say small sips feels like someone pulling up a chair, sliding a cup across the table, and giving you one clean idea at a time. Nothing overwhelming, no fire hose of information, just steady helpful nudges that actually stick. People listen in their car, on walks, or rather actually bolus ing anytime that they need a quick shot of perspective. And the reviews, they all say the same thing. Small sips makes diabetes make sense. Search for the Juice Box podcast, small sips, wherever you get audio. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan.
Scott Benner The episode you're about to listen to was sponsored by Touched by Type One. Go check them out right now on Facebook, Instagram, and, of course, at touchedbytype1.org. Check out that programs tab when you get to the website to see all the great things that they're doing for people living with type one diabetes. Touchedbytype1.org. I'm having an on body vibe alert. This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Eversense three sixty five, the only one year wear CGM. That's one insertion and one CGM a year.
Scott Benner One CGM, one year. Not every ten or fourteen days. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Today's episode is also sponsored by the Tandem Mobi system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. Tandem Mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up.
Meeting Shannon and Navigating Hashimoto's
Scott Benner Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox.
Shannon Boggs My name is Shannon Boggs. I am the mom of three kids. My oldest has type one diabetes. She was diagnosed about three years ago. Over the last three years, we've been learning to navigate the highs and lows and figure life out.
Scott Benner Oh my gosh. How many you have three kids? What are their ages?
Shannon Boggs They are 11, nine, and six.
Scott Benner Okay. Wow. Are you a a young family? Are you, like, in your thirties or forties? Or
Shannon Boggs Yeah. I'm 35.
Scott Benner Look at you. Alright. Very nice. Any autoimmune in the family, or was type one the first time you heard those words?
Shannon Boggs So we had really not we weren't really super familiar with type one. My aunt hasn't, I mean, my husband has an aunt who grew up, like, twelve hours away from him who has type one. So when she when my daughter, Raelyn, was diagnosed, they were immediately like, who has type one in your family? And I didn't know of anybody, and he was like, I have an aunt that does. So that would be Raylan's great aunt.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs And then we have some celiacs on both side of our family, which so far she's negative for, but she does have this last year, she was diagnosed with Hashimoto's.
Scott Benner Your daughter was? Yeah. I like that you said celiacs, plural. I wasn't sure if you were being plural or descriptive when you said celiacs. Like, multiple celiac or people who we refer to as celiacs.
Shannon Boggs So yeah. Yeah. I met multiple people with celiacs.
Scott Benner You know those people,
Shannon Boggs the celiacs. Yeah. Yep. The celiacs.
Scott Benner What led you to think about the Hashimoto's? Was it just generalized testing that caught it, or did you see something?
Shannon Boggs So when she was at when she was diagnosed, they immediately told me that there's other two other autoimmune diseases that usually go hand in hand. Sometimes they'll get one or two. Sometimes they'll have all three. And they tested her at diagnosis and said that she had the markers for
Scott Benner it. Okay.
Shannon Boggs We checked it regularly, I think, like, every six months, and it started kinda climbing up. And I guess maybe six months ago, it was high enough that they went ahead and put her on levothyroxine for it.
Scott Benner Do you have any idea how high her TSH was when they put her on it, and were you seeing any symptoms from it?
Shannon Boggs I think it was about I wanna say it was, like, a 12, and I started seeing flaky a lot of flaky skin on her scalp that was itchy, and she was tired and started kinda gaining weight a little rapidly.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs So that has gotten better. She's had to move up on dosing, and we might have to bump her up again. We're waiting to see.
Scott Benner Well, as she grows, she's gonna need more. Yeah. Be careful of that because they'll lose sight of that sometimes. Hey. Prior to the because twelve's pretty high. So prior to that, did you see symptoms like, looking back, can you see other symptoms now before they treated for it?
Shannon Boggs Yeah. And, you know, I wanna say when she was, like, at a four, they didn't medicate her yet. And I was starting to see and ask, and they were like, well, I don't think we need to yet, but maybe next appointment, we will. But I started kinda noticing her being a little tired.
Scott Benner Yeah. If I was your doctor, I would've given it to you to four if you saw symptoms.
Shannon Boggs So Yeah. And, you know, I really wasn't educated on it. I remember our we had an endocrinologist that at first didn't take much very seriously. We we had to really fight to kinda get a new new one that would listen to us better, but she would say things to me like, well, if her blood sugar goes to 400 every day after breakfast, I'm fine with that as long as it comes back down eventually. And I was like, well, I don't really like that. Like, I would really rather have her a little bit more in tight control, and she just seemed very, like, not worried about things. So when I asked about the Hashimoto's, and I was like, what what is this? What do we need to do? Should we do some stuff with diet? She was like, oh, no. It's easy. All you do is take a pill.
Scott Benner Where'd you find this lady? A swamp? Where where did where did you
Shannon Boggs I'm telling you. Mhmm. It was interesting. First our first two years with her was very interesting because that's who we got at diagnosis. That's just who was there, the day that we went in, and she was in DKA. So then they kept telling me I couldn't switch. You are you're stuck with whoever you're with. And I was like, what? This can't be right.
Scott Benner Is she older or younger? Or what was
Shannon Boggs I would say she was, like, mid forties, but she was pregnant with her first baby. And she then she went out on a long maternity leave, and she went out early. So I just feel like her focus wasn't really at work at the time.
Scott Benner She's like, Shannon, listen. I hear you have questions, but I just bought a house. So, I I don't I gotta go.
Shannon Boggs She was crazy.
Scott Benner The 4 hundreds, as long as it comes back down, I mean, that's fat. Was she was a a pediatric endocrinologist?
Shannon Boggs Yes. I had when I tell you what I had to jump through to get to a new endocrinologist in the same office, and we're very happy now Yeah. I mean, it took months and months. And I was like, you and we don't have another children's hospital within, like, a four hour radius
Scott Benner of us. Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Boggs Because I would have just left.
Scott Benner Was the office surprised when you said it to them, or were they like, oh, no. We know? Like, I wonder what that
Shannon Boggs was like. They just they just kept saying that they were shorthanded. Nobody was taking new patients, and I had to stick it out with her. And I was like, no. This is not right. Like, I have to be able to do something else. She needs a different Yeah. Doctor.
Scott Benner Yeah. She shows up every day. It's not a good reason for me to put my child's care on her. Yeah. Tell me again, your daughter is how old when she was diagnosed?
Shannon Boggs She was seven.
Scott Benner Seven. Okay. So, yeah, like, you know, maybe we wanna help her. Yeah. Well, what kind of direction did you get about the diabetes then? If that was, like, did they give you tech? Did you have to ask for it? Did they teach you how to use it?
A Scary DKA Diagnosis Story
Shannon Boggs That was a mess. So we went in on a Friday. Our diagnosis story alone was kinda pretty traumatic, and we had no idea. Like, diabetes was not on our radar. Yeah. We just we thought she was sick with a virus, and it escalated pretty quickly. And I just knew something wasn't right. Immediately, I'm just gonna go through the little the little steps of our diagnosis. So she woke up. Then on Wednesday, she was doing double backflips in gymnastics class, and she was fine. On Thursday, she was a little tired and didn't wanna go to school. And I remember thinking, like, maybe we're overdoing it with these gymnastics classes. Maybe because we had a long drive, we're getting home late at night, and she was like, no. I really wanna go to school. Well, on Thursday, they called me by lunchtime and said that she had a sore throat. So I'm like, okay. Pick her up. She looks very tired, but says she's okay. I'm taking pictures of her throat, like, sending it to the pediatrician. Do you think this is, like, strep throat? Do you think I should have her swabbed? And she's like, it looks viral to me. She went to bed that night and was drinking she was drinking water and ate, like, a little bit of soup but didn't eat much. And the next morning, she threw up.
Scott Benner Well,
Shannon Boggs her friend that she was riding to gymnastics with had the exact same symptoms the week before. Oh. So that mom and I are chatting, and she's like, oh, it sounds like the same thing my kid had. I'm like, okay. So I let it ride. That was, like, 5AM when she threw up. And around lunchtime, I was like, something's not right. I would go in her room to check on her. Her eyes were, like, open, but she was sleeping. And she would talk to me, but it was very, like, just
Scott Benner unnerving? Like yeah. Like, she
Shannon Boggs wasn't I it took me a lot to get her attention.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs So we live on the Eastern Shore Of Virginia. It's like a little peninsula. We have to drive over an 18 mile long bridge to get to the children's hospital, and it's an hour and a half away.
Scott Benner Did you go to King's Daughters? Yeah. Yes. That's where Arden was diagnosed. No way.
Shannon Boggs I have no idea. Oh, okay.
Scott Benner We were on vacation in, Virginia Beach when she was diagnosed.
Shannon Boggs Oh, wow. Yeah. So my husband used to work at that bridge, the virgin the one that I'm talking about. And the day that this happened, we had a nor'easter, and the bridge closes for weather like that. Mhmm. So I was waiting for my pediatrician to call me back. I got almost to the bridge, which is an hour from my house, and they were saying that the bridge was closing. So my pediatrician was like, if this doesn't work, I want you to turn around and drive to Maryland, which would have been three hours the opposite way. Jeez. We have a little local hospital, but they don't they definitely don't have endocrinology where we're at and not for pediatrics. So she knew that they I think she knew by that point what was going on. Because when I put Raelyn in the bath that day after she threw up, I was looking at her, and I said, she looks like she lost weight. So I weighed her, and I realized that she had lost eight pounds.
Scott Benner Oh gosh.
Shannon Boggs And I was like, and you know what? It's gradual. Like, you don't see it when you're around them every day.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs So when we we finally got to the bridge, they let us across because they knew who my husband was. There was, like, water splashing over the bridge. And we finally got to north, like well, when we were on the bridge, she started with the labored breathing. And I'm looking back like, what is happening? Now it's got she was throwing up. Now this is, like, respiratory? And, I mean, we were really scared. We just didn't know. We could barely wake her up at that point. Well, the whole city of Norfolk was flooded. We could not get our car through the water. All the streets were just flooded.
Scott Benner Okay.
Shannon Boggs So I was like, what are we gonna do? And he's like, maybe I can park at this gas station. I'll put her on my shoulder, and we're just gonna run and just try to have to get there that way. He was like, hold on. I knew one more route, and he went that route. We were able to get in the parking garage. So we walked in and realized that neither one of us even had our wallets. My wallet had fallen out in my purse in the driveway. We had no insurance card. So we walk in, and I explained to them. I think the only thing I said to them was my daughter's throwing up, and she's lost eight pounds. So they immediately take us back to triage. And when they put the pulse ox on her, I noticed that her fingernails were turning blue. And I I said it to the nurse. I was like, are her fingernails blue? And she was like, yeah. I was just looking at that. So we go back to the waiting room, and it was probably 20 people in the waiting room. All of sudden, the doors opened up. They called us back, and they were flocked around us, doctors and nurses. Like and at this point, she was over my husband's shoulders, and she was pretty much unconscious. And they were just screaming, she's in DKA. She's in DKA. And we're looking at each other. We we were like, what is DKA?
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs And the doctor looked at my husband and was like, I'm pretty sure she's a type one diabetic. I'm gonna have to run some more tests. And that's when they were like, do you guys have any other diabetes in your family? So we were there on a Friday. So all of the the staff members for endocrinology are off for the weekend. So they had the nurses on can't well, we were in ICU for a while because she had to we had to wait for her blood sugar to come down. And that was scary because they had her on the insulin drip, and I remember them saying, like, we have to do it slow because we could you know, it can cause brain damage if you do it too fast. And I just remember, like, we just she just wasn't waking up. Like, it seemed like so long. I guess it was, a day and a half. And when she finally came to, she didn't act right. Like, she didn't act like her same self with her personality, which, obviously, that's a lot to take in.
Scott Benner Yeah. But nothing cool happened like she could speak another language or something like that. Right?
Navigating the First Few Months
Scott Benner When you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, is the first thing you think about, I love that I have to change it all the time? I love the warm up period every time I have to change it. I love that when I bump into a door frame, sometimes it gets ripped off. I love that the adhesive kinda gets mushy sometimes when I sweat and falls off. No. These are not the things that you love about a CGM. Today's episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Eversense three sixty five, the only CGM that you only have to put on once a year and the only CGM that won't give you any of those problems. The Eversense three sixty five is the only one year CGM designed to minimize device frustration. It has exceptional accuracy for one year with almost no false alarms from compression lows while you're sleeping. You can manage your diabetes instead of your CGM with the Eversense three sixty five. Learn more and get started today at eversincecgm.com/juicebox. One year, one CGM.
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Shannon Boggs Yeah. No. No. So the nurses on that floor, when we went to the the second the step down unit, they taught us everything. And on Monday morning, they were like, okay. We've got a meeting with the diabetic educator, and we're gonna go ahead and release you. They were like, you guys are doing great. You guys are like the poster parents of type one diabetes, and you're gonna do fine. And meanwhile, we felt like we were taking a newborn home that we had never, you know, that we had no idea how to take care of. They didn't send us with a Dexcom. No talk of an insulin pump or anything like that. But a Dexcom, I was really wanting. And, I mean, I'm just I just remember looking up things online as we're laying in the room that weekend at the hospital, like, for support, and that's how I found your page. And I started listening to the Juice Box podcast, and I joined the Facebook group and, you know, just found other moms that I was like, okay. There's other people out here that are going through this and that have done this. And I remember just looking for inspiration that, like, it was gonna be okay.
Scott Benner Yeah. Because that that half assed bull they gave you in the hospital, you're doing great, that wasn't taken. Right?
Shannon Boggs No. It wasn't. And so two weeks went by. They said, I want you to wake every two hours overnight and check her blood sugar. Mhmm. And I thought I was gonna go off the deep end. I wasn't sleeping. I was worried to death. I was terrified. I had two kids younger than her that I was caring for. I remember calling my insurance.
Scott Benner Your youngest would have been, like, three. Right?
Shannon Boggs Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. Okay.
Shannon Boggs Yep. I remember calling my insurance company, and they're like, yeah. Like, we'll cover a Dexcom. I don't know why they won't let you just have a Dexcom. And I called them, and I was like, guys, it's been two weeks. Can we get a Dexcom now? Like, I I understand that you want us to learn things the old school way, but I feel like after two weeks, we figured that out, and I'm ready to be able to sleep and just feel a little bit more comfortable. So we kinda had to fight fight to get it, but we did, And that was definitely a huge relief.
Scott Benner And you figured out that kind of stuff online, like what you needed?
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner About a CGM and everything. I was just gonna say, if they didn't mention it to you, like, where else do
Shannon Boggs you know? No. No. They didn't.
Scott Benner There any chance was doctor Satton Smith there? Do you know that name?
Shannon Boggs So she had just retired Oh. I think. I heard really great things. Is that who diagnosed Arden?
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. She was the night we went home, they kept her for I think they kept Arden, like, four or five days. Yeah. And then that that night, we're like, in a rental house, like, you know, I think I tested Arden's blood sugar at, like, four in the morning or something, and I thought, like I'm like, she needs insulin, but I didn't know. And it was like Yeah. Yeah. And so I just she gave me her number. She said, could call I, like, woke her up in the middle of the night. And I was like Oh. I just tested her blood sugar, and it was this. Do you think I should give her insulin? And she was like, yeah. I I think you can. And I was like, are you sure? She's like, I mean, I guess. And I was like, okay. But she was really lovely. I heard she just retired. I wondered if you caught her or not.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. No. We didn't. Yeah. But, man, I mean, I've called numerous people in those beginning days, parents or or people living with diabetes. I had a few client. I'm a hairstylist, so I had a few clients that, had type one, and I remember just them answering my phone calls late when I was scared. And I just will never forget those people that were there for me in the beginning for sure.
Scott Benner Hey. Before we move forward, I just have to know where I'm gonna wander the whole time we're talking. How does your husband work on a bridge? What does that mean?
Shannon Boggs So the bridge was he doesn't work there anymore, but, it's 18 miles long, and it's a privately owned bridge. So he was law enforcement there.
Scott Benner Okay.
Shannon Boggs But they do before he was law enforcement, he drove the rollback, and he dealt with, like, you know, broken down vehicles. They also do drive acrosses because they're believe it or not, there's a ton of people that are terrified to drive across. So he would drive their car across while they would talk talk to him in a passenger seat.
Scott Benner No kidding. Well, that's Yeah. Oh, because so, like, the bridge is almost like its own little city then.
Shannon Boggs Yep. And they're you you know, they have people taking tolls, so he would have to relieve the toll collectors for their, like, lunch breaks. He would take toll for a little while and stuff like that.
Scott Benner That's how long did he do that for?
Shannon Boggs He was there for thirteen years.
Scott Benner No kidding. That's really kind of interesting.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. It's funny how it all works because it was a really good job. It paid pretty well. They have good insurance, and it's always it's a lot of people, once they go there, they stay until they retire.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs But the hours were really hard. He worked twelve hour shifts. It was an hour away from our house. So, you know, it was, a fourteen hour day.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs And then he would work a month straight of overnights. And I'm home trying to keep these three kids quiet so he can sleep during the day.
Scott Benner Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Boggs You know, it was a mess, but he ended up with another job. And the new job he took in April, Raylan was diagnosed in September, as a program that covers a 100% of her diabetic stuff. So we don't have to pay out of pocket for anything now.
Scott Benner Oh, that's wonderful.
Shannon Boggs And it was like, man, that was really a blessing that he took that job.
Scott Benner Yeah. You remind me. I have to make a copay on Ardent's pumps. I'm gonna write that down. Oh. I got an email today, and I've I've ignored it so far. You settle in, I imagine, as time kinda, like, goes on, you get the CGM that was, I'm I imagine very valuable. What's the next step, and how do you how do you recall, like, the first six, eight months of diabetes? Do you do you feel like you were like, did you have it like they told you, or did it not feel that way?
Shannon Boggs I think that, you know, after about that time, we started feeling more comfortable. I remember she was diagnosed September 30, so Halloween was the next month. And I was like, what are we gonna do? Do we let her have candy? Do we let her trick or treat? You know, all those little things that I stress that now seem so little because you're used to it.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs But I just remember all the firsts trying to navigate her playing sports for the first time and going to the school. And, you know, we don't have a school that at the time, they didn't monitor blood sugar. I had to watch my phone all day and call if something was wrong and then get them to go get her. Since then, last year, she and I went to the Virginia assembly with the follow t one b's that help, like, put laws in place for diabetic.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs And we were able to pass a bill that now her nurses can finally follow her blood sugars after three years, and they see it right in the office, and they can go get her if she's high or low.
Scott Benner You had to pass the law so somebody could use follow?
Shannon Boggs Right. Yeah. It wasn't a thing in Virginia until about maybe it was right before Christmas break when they finally were allowed to do it.
Scott Benner Yeah. I remember right as Arden was getting into school, our governor passed the law that kids could give themselves insulin in their classrooms, which was a big deal. At back Yeah. Back then, like, you couldn't. You had to leave the room and go to the doc to the nurse's office. And I I look back now, and I think of how much that saved us over the years. Oh, yeah. Just being able to do insulin in the classroom.
Shannon Boggs I mean, even last year or the the second year she was diagnosed, she got tired of wanting to go to the nurse just to treat a low blood sugar. They would make her go in there to treat a low. She'd have to walk all the way down the halls and in there. And I had to sign, like, paperworks that they weren't liable if she were to treat her own lows in the classroom because she wanted to be able to have her own snacks at her desk and just Yeah. You know, drink a juice and keep on working.
Scott Benner Right.
Shannon Boggs And she's like, she loves to be able to do that. She's very independent now.
Scott Benner How is she doing with all this? Like, was it a big transformation for her? Did she accept it?
Shannon Boggs She says things still like, I just you know, I remember that was before I had diabetes, and she'll say things like that. But she does pretty well. We're not super restrictive with her. We're bold with insulin like we learned, you know, from you guys.
Scott Benner Okay.
Shannon Boggs And she does pretty well. This this summer was a turning point. She wanted to go to a camp. She went to diabetes camp the year before, but this year, she wanted to go to a camp that was not a diabetes camp. It was just a regular old camp. They don't even have a nurse, and they don't have good cell phone service. And the year before, I wouldn't let her go. And this past summer, I was like, alright. We're gonna do it. We're gonna give it a try. And she did really well.
Scott Benner Awesome.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. She it was it was not very restful for us because there was a lot of times where we couldn't see her numbers at all, and I just had to hope and trust that somebody in her cabin, especially overnight, would wake up and hear it. I didn't worry about it during the day because I knew, like, during the day, she could feel her lows, and she's got it. But the night times were hard, and she but she did great. She's gonna go back this year. So Oh,
Scott Benner that's so
Shannon Boggs good. Good for her.
Scott Benner What pump is she using?
Shannon Boggs She's on the tandem Moby.
Scott Benner The Moby. Okay. Is she liking that?
Shannon Boggs Yeah. She loves it.
Scott Benner Very cool.
Shannon Boggs She was an Omnipod user, and we went to Friends for Life, not this past year, but the year before. And they were doing the demos, and she tried it, and she loves it. She doesn't wear it tubeless. Like, you know how you they've got the little sleeve. She doesn't wear it like that. She likes the long tubing and it and, like, a good old fashioned little pump clip.
Scott Benner Oh, okay. Yeah. She wears it, like, just like a like an insulin pump. Like,
Shannon Boggs Yeah. To look for her belt or something. In the summer. She'll unhook and hop in the pool, and she loves her movie.
Scott Benner Oh, that's awesome. That's great. I I love it when people find stuff they like that that that works for them.
TikTok Fame and Building Community
Scott Benner So how did you I mean, at this point now, well, I feel like we've got enough of your story here. How did you become the lady from TikTok? Like, how does that happen?
Shannon Boggs You know, it's funny. We had, like, a random TikTok account from, like you know, when when it was it was, like, COVID days, I guess, really. And the kids would get on there, and we would do, like, learn little dances when there was nothing to do. And when all this happened, I remember a girl, one of my friends that that works with me was like, you should, you know, do some videos and try to help other kids. Like, she was like, you know, maybe see what she's going through that they're not alone. So I talked to Raylan about it, she was like, yeah. And I would like to find some friends. Like, for the longest time, she was convinced she was the only girl with diabetes. Mhmm. Because where we live, there is like there was, at the time, like, five little kids, but they were all boys. And she's like, I just want a friend that has diabetes that, like, I can hang out with or talk to that's a girl that's kinda, like, closer to my age. So we kinda set out for doing that. And I think our first video was her doing a Dexcom change with her sister. And, man, that used to take us a long time, like an hour, because she was so scared and said it hurt. And so I think we did you know, we posted a video like that, and it just blew up, but it was, like, crazy, the the support, the people that you know, it locked me right into the diabetes community of all those people that are living this life with us. Yeah. So she has found we found a lot of friends online, a lot of people that we've met in person. We had a family. It's a mom with type one and a daughter with type one. They came. We put a video out there trying to find somebody for her to connect with, and they came and went camping with us. And since then, we probably visit them, like, three to four times a year. We go up to see them in New Jersey, and they come down here. And it's just built a lot of friendships. It's helped her motivate other kids, especially the younger ones. But then she also loves to follow, like, the older people that she sees, like, the teenagers.
Scott Benner And Yeah.
Shannon Boggs Actually, next week, we're going to see Riley Arnold. Do you know her? She's the one that's in dancing with the stars.
Scott Benner I know the name, but I I don't know exactly. Yeah.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. So I I mean, I don't know her either, obviously. But for Christmas, I got Braylon Taditz. And we're going to Virginia Beach next week to see her dance because Braylon's a dancer, and her goal her main goal in life is to be, like, a competitive dancer.
Scott Benner Oh, wow.
Shannon Boggs So I thought that that would be cool for her to see.
Scott Benner My goal for the last two weeks has been get our radon level down in our basement. I I did it. I don't have as many fun goals as children do, apparently. I just realized I was like, what's my goal? And I was like, oh, I've reached I've reached my goal. I found that crack in the foundation, and I sealed it. Oh,
Shannon Boggs that's good.
Scott Benner That's good. So boring. I'm aware of you, and I don't and I don't really pay attention to social media.
Shannon Boggs And Yeah. It's probably because I tag you and stuff all the time. People come to my videos, and I send them to your way.
Scott Benner No. That's lovely, but that's not why. Like, I mean, I'm just I'm aware of you otherwise. Like, there's a few there's a few people whose stuff just kinda transcends and and makes its way to, like because I have that stuff. So when I open it up, I'm not following many people. I don't have, like, a yeah. And it pops up and, like, there's I see, Marley a lot. I see you Mhmm. A lot. Like, when it goes from, hey. We'll make a video, and you're used to, you know, dancing and 20 people sing it. And then it's a thousand people, and then it's 10,000, and then it's a 100,000. Like, like, what's the process that happens within your family? Right? Because now, like yeah. I mean, I've seen some of your your videos. Like, your your daughter has been very vulnerable in some of them. So, like Mhmm. Is there a moment where she thinks, like, I didn't realize all this many people were gonna see it, or does that seem not like a concern for kids? Like
Shannon Boggs She is very, like, outgoing, and I don't know. She's just very people y. If you met her in person, she'd be your best friend in two minutes. Yeah. So she's never felt like that. Now I know that that she's a little older. We don't post quite as much of her doing this stuff because she's so busy, and it's such a pain for her to do it. You know how it is. Like, when they get older. You know, we're on from one sport. We're getting out of school, and she's got practice in an hour. She's gotta do a site change, and she just wants to get it done. So I wait for her to tell me, hey. I think I wanna do a video today. I wait I, like, totally follow whatever she wants to do. And sometimes, it's weeks before she wants to talk about diabetes. But I can tell you if there's one minute where I look at her and say, you wanna do a dance? She's like, yeah. Let's do that.
Scott Benner Yeah. That kind of stuff is yeah. That's a gimme, right, at her age. Like, tell me how many followers do you have, like, on TikTok and Instagram and all that? Do you know? I
Shannon Boggs do. I think on, like, TikTok, we're, like, 780,000.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs We didn't start posting on YouTube or YouTube and Instagram and all that till way later, but I think we hit, like, 200,000 on Instagram this year.
Scott Benner And and what does that mean for a post? Like, you put up a you put up a video on on TikTok. How many people see it generally?
Shannon Boggs Oh, gosh. I don't know. TikTok's kind of like I feel like shadow banning me lately, so we don't get a lot of we don't get a lot of stuff seen on there. We do better, like, on Instagram and Facebook lately.
Scott Benner But Okay.
Shannon Boggs I would say on average, if it's if it's a diabetes video, it does better because a lot of our community is from the diabetes community.
Scott Benner Right.
Shannon Boggs Because we we do a lot of lifestyle stuff too. We do travel. We do, you know, we do some stuff with our service dog. We do some stuff that's just funny, a mom and dad stuff. We try to not our page really isn't all about diabetes.
Scott Benner Right.
Shannon Boggs But those videos always definitely do the best.
Scott Benner Is that a job? Like, do you have an income that you're just like, wow. This is or is it just like a little bit of money that's like, this is nice?
Shannon Boggs Honest with you. It's yeah. It's not. There's been months where we have really taken off. I had no idea you could make money on social media. That was never a goal for me.
Scott Benner Right.
Shannon Boggs Right. I think so looking back, I've learned that when you get 10,000 followers on TikTok, you can apply for the creator's reward program. I think we had a 150,000 followers, and I had no clue. We were just having fun. Yeah. And we still we still treat it like that. My husband and I work full time. And then if we have a good month and we make some money on there, we'll take the kids on a trip or, you know, we're stashing money in their savings account. It's just, like, extra because I feel like it's something that we personally would never just rely on as an income.
Scott Benner I just want people to to hear because I think that I see a lot of people who it seems to me are trying really hard to make a living at this. And
Shannon Boggs Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner And then, you know, a year later, I don't see them anymore. And it's a whole new group of people trying, and I'm I just I don't know.
Shannon Boggs I agree. It's very it's very oversaturated now right now. And I, you know, I feel like you can't like, for me, I didn't wanna have a niche where my niche was all gonna be diabetes. We're just gonna talk about diabetes because first of all, I don't have diabetes, and I don't wanna rely on my kid
Scott Benner to have to content. Yeah.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Because she's a kid. She doesn't wanna have to do that all the time. Like I said, I take it totally as it comes when she comes to me and is like, hey, mom. I thought we could share this today, or I thought something would be funny today if we post this. Then we do it, but I'm not constantly after her for every site change she does or let's talk about
Scott Benner Right.
Shannon Boggs This today because I still want her to have a life and just be a kid.
Scott Benner I also think you can get caught up in that thing where you make a couple bucks doing it, and you think, oh, if I only had more followers or more views, and then you're, like, desperately making content constantly. And
Shannon Boggs Like, I never look at my analytics ever. Mhmm. People are always like, well, what time does your video do better? I don't have a clue. I've never looked at that. Yeah. I really truly don't. We post whatever we feel led to post and whatever we think is gonna bring joy to people at the time when we feel like it. I don't plan things ahead. I don't have drafts ready to go. Like, I wake up and I'm like, I think this is what I'll talk about today. Truly, that's kinda how I take it.
Scott Benner I woke up one day a couple years ago, and I was like, maybe I'll do videos every day. And then I think I was, like, a day and a half, and I was like, oh, I'm definitely not doing this.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot editing and
Scott Benner I don't wanna be involved. Is is but but it's funny you use the word oversaturated. I literally just had this conversation with somebody where I kinda kinda was sounding like an old man, like, complaining, but I've lived through this already. I watched I watched the diabetes blogging community get oversaturated, and it ruined it. Yeah. And now I think it's happening with social media now.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. I see that too. I mean, every time I turn around, there's there's somebody new on there, and I'm like, oh, I've never seen them before. You know?
Scott Benner I don't need to see everyone change their pump. And the other thing that I've noticed along the way, and maybe you'll tell me I'm crazy or maybe you'll notice it too, is when you try to, like, fit a niche to how social media works, you end up doing things that I find odd. Like, there's just no doubt that pretty younger people, their videos do better. Mhmm. There's the more skin that an adult shows, the better the video does. Like, there's stuff that actually leans into this stuff, and I just think it's weird when you're just like Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, hey. What you know, here's my ass. Oh, look. My CGM. Yep. What are we doing?
Shannon Boggs Yep. Yeah. I get it.
Scott Benner And even the explainers, I like it a lot. I mean, Marley's a great example. I think what she does is really cool. But I mean, like, as a as a as a content thing, I don't know how long she can keep that up. And I also don't know at what point do people just go like, oh, I get this. Like, I've seen it already.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Yep.
Scott Benner Her is an example. She wants to do that forever. I think that's awesome. I really think it's really valuable, but I don't know that it's a business forever. Yeah. And it does tail off. And people who keep it going for more than a year, that's really special. Like, as long as you've been going, that's amazing. Like Yeah.
Shannon Boggs But I do think that it's because we, you know, kind of converted into we share a little bit of everything, and that's what I wanted. I
Scott Benner don't Yeah.
Shannon Boggs Because I have two other kids, and I wanna make sure I'm including them.
Scott Benner Right.
Shannon Boggs Right. I don't ever want them to feel like their sister gets a spotlight, and our page is all about her. So I try to include them too, and I'm like, you know, we do we do a lot of other stuff because that Right. You know, just for that reason mainly.
Scott Benner You're not gonna avoid that. Like, I I've said I've said here before, but, you know, I don't know if I could have possibly spent another waking minute with my son when he was younger. Like, he played so much baseball, and I was always with him. Yeah. And they're reasonably well adjusted people as adults now. And still, I don't know, a year ago, we're having a conversation. He's like, yeah. When I was growing up, I felt like it was all about ardent or diabetes. And I thought I thought
Shannon Boggs I know.
Scott Benner Oh my god. Like, we put so and you start listing it. As an adult, he goes, no. I hear what you're saying. It's just how I felt. And then we turned to Arden, and she's like, I felt like we were always at Cole's baseball games. And I was like, you've gotta be kidding me. What are we trying so hard for if everyone was gonna be upset no matter what? But, yeah, it it just is and then you you amplify it, and then it feels like, I know that I I experienced this too. Like, to some people, I'm famous, which is Yeah. Which is ridiculous. And I and I wonder if you haven't felt the same way.
Shannon Boggs Right. Yeah. When people come up to me or I'll get a comment, and they'll say, saw you at the mall today, and I was so afraid to say hi or whatever. And I'm like, guys, I'm just a normal person. We're all just normal people. Come say hi. We are not famous. Yeah. You know, it's just funny. Like like I said, I work full time. My husband works full time. Neither one of us retire or plan on retiring early from social media. As long as we're having fun with it, I think that's great. But it's never something that we're like, we're gonna quit and just rely on this because I want it to be fun.
Scott Benner I saw this great video the other day. It had nothing to do with diabetes, but this this person, she was like, oh my god. Like, everyone's always asking me how much money do you make because I've got a couple of videos. Like, she had, I guess, a video that did, like, 30,000,000 and a video that did, like, 20,000,000 or something like that. She's like, now that I had these videos making all these millions, like, you guys wanna know how much I'm making. I'm happy to show it to you, and she's typing on her computer. And then she picks up her phone and turns around. She made, like, $10. And Yeah. Yeah. And and I was like, that's what more people need to see.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. So it's definitely not about the money. It's just really just about having fun for us.
Scott Benner Yeah. Also, if you're a reasonable person and an adult, you you can't build a business that a company outside of your control could turn a dial and change an algorithm a little bit and be like, oh, now you don't exist anymore.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Like, that's Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of friends that have over a million followers. They've left their creator rewards program because once you're in there and you have you know, they I feel like they kind of put your views way, way, way, way, way down so that they don't have to pay you.
Scott Benner They don't want to they don't wanna pay you at that point.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Exactly.
Scott Benner Yeah. They'll use you for the content, and then, like, the carrot and the stick that it's gonna work out. Yeah. I just, yeah, I just see a lot
Shannon Boggs of Yeah. That It's not reliable.
Scott Benner Desperation of, like like, this video has gotta work, and it's just it's a lot. I I Yeah. I don't I'm you know, as I explained to the person I was talking to the other day about this, like, I'm I'm insulated. I'm I'm in a bubble that I created, and it's kinda my own. And, like, so I'm not at the whim of, like, what TikTok decides to do or it doesn't matter to me if anybody follows me on Instagram. Like, that kind of stuff doesn't, like, impact me, but it's a very specific thing that I don't think exists for a lot of people. And Mhmm. You know what I mean? Like, I just it would make me crazy. Like, Apple messes with their their algorithm. Yeah. And it's upsetting. I am not gonna lie to you. Like, they made a change, like, two years ago, and I was like, I need to get into a car and drive to Cupertino and bang on the front door. Like, what are you guys doing? And then suddenly, they put it back. And you're like, what was that? And then and then it goes the other way, and then you're like, I don't know. Like, what are you doing? And, you know, this podcast sits in the top 30 of The US medicine category for, like, eight years. Like, I'm rock solid. Like right? But, like,
Shannon Boggs still You should be so proud. You have done so well. You have brought so much good to so many people. And I'm telling you, anytime somebody comes to me, it's the first thing I tell them. Go to juice box podcast.
Scott Benner Thank you. You're very, very nice. I I was trying to complain about Apple for a second, but that was nice too. Kinda draw trying to draw a picture for somebody. Like, it's bizarre that you could be doing the same thing today as you did yesterday, and you're reaching the same number of people, but they just change your metrics. And you're like Yeah. Oh, okay. And then now what? Like, what if they don't put it back? Or what if they, like, what if they zhuzh it up the wrong way or the right like, is any of it real? Like, you get to the point where you just go, I don't care about any of this. Like, I measure this podcast now by, like, the people I hear who are who find it valuable.
Shannon Boggs Yeah.
Scott Benner That's it. If I'm hearing those voices and those stories every day, I just assume it's working.
Shannon Boggs It's almost like diabetes where you can do the same thing and eat the same thing every day, and you won't always have the same results.
Scott Benner Yeah. Hey. That's a great way to put it, Apple. You're like having diabetes. It's super interesting. And I think from the outside, it is very easy for people to look and think, well, you know, Shannon and her family, they're famous. They must be rich from this or, like, but
Shannon Boggs I think you're right. Yeah. I think you're right.
Scott Benner It's just really
Shannon Boggs And I just always try that's why I'm always, like, transparent. I'm like, no. We, you know, we're having fun. We're doing our thing. We're hoping to bring smiles to people. And if there's anything extra left over, like, we're we're using our money this year. We're going back to friends for life. I told my kids that that's what our trip is this year.
Scott Benner We'll we'll get to meet. I'm gonna
Shannon Boggs be there.
Scott Benner Yeah. That's lovely. I'm going down with, John from Sugar Pixel.
Shannon Boggs Oh, cool.
Scott Benner Yeah. We're have a big there's gonna be a big sugar, am I supposed to say it? Whatever, Sean. There's a big, John will get so mad at me. There's gonna be a big Sugarpixel at Juice Box podcast booth with Friends for Life for sure.
Shannon Boggs That is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. We will be there. We'll come see you.
Scott Benner Oh, that'd be lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Even when people are like, you should, you know, do something with me on my channel. I'm like, I don't I don't first of all, I don't have time for all that. And secondly Yeah. I know you think it's gonna be valuable, but it doesn't work that way. Yeah. I'm talking to you because I think it's interesting. Like, I'm not gonna get one extra download even if you and I by the way, please do share it, but it's not gonna like, people from Instagram aren't suddenly podcast listeners because you're on a podcast. Like, some of them will go, but it's not a it's not a number that is, like, shocking. It's just the same as if you, you know, vice versa. Like, you're not gonna get some crazy bump from being on the podcast. Like, it just
Shannon Boggs Right.
Scott Benner The social media world doesn't work that way anymore.
Shannon Boggs Yeah.
Scott Benner It used to. I mean, getting on someone's side you know what I mean?
Shannon Boggs I just feel like once you find your audience, they're there. They're gonna be your people because they like you for who you are. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like a lot of people yeah. They're they're they're just like they genuinely you know, like one of us in the family or all of us in the family, or they look forward to seeing our our our adventures or whatever. You know?
Scott Benner I hear you. Yeah. Let's see. It is really interesting. I don't know. I'm I'm always, like, a little vexed by it. Like, I think it's interesting. I I'm happy that it works. At the same time, I feel weird when I see people just, like, they're trying so hard. And I'm like, even if you get there, wait wait till you get there and find out it's a $124. Yeah. I know people who make videos for companies. And I finally, one day, was like, what what do they pay you for that? And then Yeah. And they told me, and I was like, oh my god. Really? I was like I was like, that's it? It's like a it's like a few $100 to make a video?
Shannon Boggs And I remember Yeah. Talking to somebody that had 2,000,000 followers, and we were on a brand trip. And she told me, don't ever rely on the platforms themselves to make you money because brand deals is where you will actually make money. And they're not always easy to get. Yeah. Like, it just depends. You know? I I've lucked out, and I have certain brands that I work with that will contact me regularly, and I'll work with them a few times a year. Some things that I already use at home that I love, products that I love already. As far as, like, the actual platforms, plus, you know, people get hacked and banned and their pages taken down. It's just not very reliable, I feel like, for a forever income.
Scott Benner No. No. For certain. And it is it is weird to say because it sounds like it sounds so bullshit, but I am wearing Cozy Earth sweatpants right now. It's so easy for me to do their ads because I'm just like, I do I really do love this stuff. I know. Yeah. That's how I am. I take your point. Like, I mean, I have a lot of advertisers in the diabetes world, but I reach a lot of people. So it's sort of a no it's a no brainer for them Yeah. You know, to be involved with it. When I first started doing it, like I mean, I've been doing this for this is my twelfth year.
Shannon Boggs Wow.
Scott Benner I think I talked Omnipod into buying an ad when I basically I used to write for their blog, and it it wasn't I think I wrote, like, six blog pieces a year. I just said, like, please don't make me write the blog anymore. Just give me the money, and I will give you ads on my podcast in exchange. And they were like, well, how many people are listening to the podcast? I'm like, well, nobody really. I was like, but I was like, I'm gonna build it up. I promise. And they were just kind enough to be supportive back then because there was no reason to
Shannon Boggs Yeah. That's awesome.
Scott Benner And then it was one company that gave me it wasn't even it's not like it was enough money to, like, to put in as much time as I was putting it. It was enough money to, like, show to my wife, like, look. I got money for this. Like, let me do it for a while.
Shannon Boggs Yeah.
Scott Benner And let's see what happens. Yep. And now 1,821,000,000 1,800 episodes, 21,000,000 downloads later, like, it's it's this crazy thing, but it started off by me just thinking like, oh, I can't keep writing this blog. Like, told you, like, blogging died. They people there were 4,000 diabetes blogs at the peak. Like, who the hell is reading? Nobody's reading all those. Yeah. I pivoted to the podcast thing, and I think I just got there first. I think that was kind of, you know, what happened. I I did have this moment today where I was thinking about all the times that people try to talk me out of this or kind of make me feel bad about it along the way. And it was like from day one, before I even started it, a guy told me, I won't say his name, a guy told me, well, you can start a podcast about diabetes, but you're gonna run out of stuff to talk about very quickly.
Shannon Boggs Oh, wow.
Scott Benner And I actually thought that doesn't sound right. But okay. But that still was in my head. Like, I'm gonna run out of things to talk about. Then I started it up, and four or five months later, this person reached out to me and they were like, hey, you don't know me, but I'm gonna start a diabetes podcast and I need help. And I was like, okay. So, like, I talked to that person and, like, helped them with microphones and stuff like that. And at the end of the phone call, they said, I'm gonna do it differently than you. I don't like the way you do it. And I was like, oh, cool. Thanks for calling. I was like, what is and then that vibe was and that stuck on me for a while because, like, the old school bloggers hated me. And they were like, he's talking about how he takes care of his daughter. He's like sharing what they do. You can't do that. That's really dangerous. And now twelve years later, I have I have literally tens of thousands of notes here I could show you from grateful people.
Shannon Boggs I just love how you come at it with a different you always have a different perspective because there's always different people that are coming from the diabetes space in a different way. Like, today, I'm here as a mom, and tomorrow, you might have somebody that's lived with it for fifty four years. Yeah. Like, that's what's what I think is really cool about what you do.
Scott Benner I appreciate it. You just picked a funny number because I've already interviewed a woman today who is 54 years old and has had diabetes for fifty one years and just got Addison's disease. And, like That's funny. And she was talking about that. You know? And, like, I don't even do what I'm doing with you very often, which is interviewing somebody who anybody's ever heard of before because I really like to hear people's, like, un like, even you Nobody knows. Yeah. But even you, like, the first twenty minutes we talked, like, I enjoyed hearing your story, but you've probably told people that a 100 times. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I like people who are, like, saying it out loud for, like, the first time and listening to them, like, pick through their lives and and because that's when they come up with kinda stuff or things that are worth sharing or they say something valuable for someone else. I don't know. I like I like interviewing people who've never had a microphone in their face one time. I think Yeah.
Shannon Boggs I get that.
Scott Benner Yeah. I think it's an I think it's I mean, not the other people aren't interesting, but it's just for long term for having legs. You just need to keep hearing different stories.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. I couldn't agree more.
Scott Benner As much as you can. So is your daughter only good on, like, the videos? Or, like, if she came on the podcast, she could she hold a conversation for an hour? Like, what's
Shannon Boggs I think she could hold a conversation. She's super yeah. She's not shy. She's super chatty.
Scott Benner Would she talk about her diabetes? Yeah. Yeah? If she wants to, you should tell her, I'd I'd love to do it with her because
Shannon Boggs Yeah.
Scott Benner It's interesting to hear so I'm gonna now say the opposite thing I just said to you. You're an adult. You know, you know what you think and you you feel like, you know, you say things over and over again. But a kid who's articulate and willing to talk about it, she'll share stuff that other kids you can't pry out of other kids because she's a little Yeah. She's a little media trained. So she'll do like, she'll she'll get talky and so, yeah, it'd be cool. There's no pressure, but if she wanted to, I think that would be really cool.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Okay. I'll definitely ask her.
Scott Benner Again, it took me, like, two years to get you to do this. So, like
Shannon Boggs I know. I know. I had it scheduled with you a while back, and I woke up with a stomach bug the day that we were supposed to do it. It was awful. I felt so bad to cancel.
The Realities of Diabetes Service Dogs
Shannon Boggs So it's funny. Like, you know, you see so we have a service dog, and we apply I literally started looking up service dogs when she was still in the hospital because I saw people talking about it.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs And our service dog is great. I love her. She's wonderful. Don't get me wrong. But I feel like so many people, including me, you know, we've shared videos of her. Now I feel like everybody that has a kid with diabetes thinks that they need a service dog. So I have put that out there. Like, please don't feel like you are less than as a parent because you don't have a service dog. Because now that we have a few years under our belt, we definitely don't rely on her like we thought that we would. She's great. She's a great backup. But, also, I just you know, I said this on another podcast that I was on, and they were like, oh, I didn't even think about that. Like, the dog will go to school with Raylan, and Raylan has to think about when is she gonna take her outside for a break. When is she gonna make sure she has water? Then she has to clean up after her. She has to find a spot that's out of the way in each class that she goes to because she's changing classes. And then she's got all the extra stuff for the dog plus all of her diabetes stuff plus her book bag and laptop. So it's it's a lot. So I always tell people, like, if you it's just something that I want to tell parents. Like, consider that. Because some days she's like, mom, it's just too much today. I have I have a test. I have this. We have this going on at school. And after school, she's like, I don't think I'm gonna bring her to school today. And I'm like, okay. That's fine.
Scott Benner You can leave her in. That is exactly I don't know if I'm more more cynical person or whatnot, but I and I've had tons of people on to talk about their dogs, and I'm happy to have the conversation with them. But you couldn't get me to get a diabetes service dog by putting a gun to my head. I'd be like, no. Thank you.
Shannon Boggs Yeah.
Scott Benner I mean, I the CGM works fine. I'm good. Yeah. And I don't I'm not looking for all that, all the the extra stuff. Like, nothing like, I have dogs already. Like, you know, and
Shannon Boggs It's a lot that people don't think about. And she's great when when it's summertime, and she's out in the yard, and we're running around without the phones, and she doesn't have a blood sugar reading on her, or we're swimming or in the water. If we post a video and we go to anywhere, anywhere without the dog, people immediately in the comments are like, where's spy? And it's like, she even Raylan's like, these comp mom. They think that she has got to go with me everywhere. Like, my goodness. And sometimes the dog needs a break. Like, she's maybe she went to school with her that day, then she needs to come and have a break in the afternoon. And, like, lord forbid, we go to Walmart without her.
Scott Benner Well, you know what? It's interesting too because you you run the risk of telling your daughter, hey. You can't exist without this dog. And Yeah. And there are plenty of people living with type one diabetes don't don't even have a kitten. So, like, they're, you know, they're they're okay. I mean, again, if it's something somebody wants and it's valuable for them, I mean, god bless. I don't I couldn't possibly care less. But I don't want you to, like, run around feeling like this like you said, like, this has to happen or I'm somehow not doing everything I'm supposed to do. I'm gonna tell you, I think you could be perfectly fine your whole life and not have a diabetes service dog. Yeah. And by the way, they are incredibly expensive most of the time, and there are a lot of companies out there that will take advantage of you and sell you a very overpriced dog that isn't gonna sniff your socks. So and then later, they'll tell you, oh, whatever. Sorry.
Shannon Boggs Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I tell everybody to do their research. I've had parents message me, say, like, you know, they feel bad not having a dog for their kids, and I'm I've told them exactly what I just told you. Like, please do not ever feel like that because if I had have probably given it more time and gotten used to it before we jumped into it, I don't think we would have felt like, oh, we have to have this dog. She is definitely a blessing in our life, and we love her to death. And she has definitely woken us up and caught Raelon's high and low blood sugars for sure.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs But like you said, with the technology that we have these days
Scott Benner It does look too.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Even people she's born in middle school, and when she gets to high school, her dog will be pretty much retired by that age. We'll have to think about, are we gonna get another dog?
Scott Benner Are you gonna
Shannon Boggs do see her wanting another dog because I think she's very independent, and she's not gonna want the extra k you know, asshole.
Scott Benner Turns a fun pet into, like, a anchor too. It's like yeah. Yep. I can just I'm picturing you and your husband laying in bed one night trying to go to sleep, one of you just turns to the other one and goes, why why did we we didn't need that dog.
Shannon Boggs Cool. And, like, also, our dog is not trained as tightly as some of the other dogs. Like, some of them are waking their the parents up at a blood sugar of one forty
Scott Benner Okay.
Shannon Boggs Because they think it's a high blood sugar, and I'm like, woah. Man, I'm glad she doesn't do that because I think that would just drive me crazy.
Scott Benner I would prefer if the algorithm just gave a little insulin at one forty. That sounds maybe
Shannon Boggs better. Exactly.
Scott Benner My gosh. Yeah. Again, I it's no shade for anybody. Like, I No. Again, if it's something you like, I I couldn't again, I couldn't possibly care less. I'm happy for you if you're happy. But my goodness. I mean Yeah.
Shannon Boggs It's just it's a commitment that everybody needs to consider. Like, we've had a lot of medical stuff pop up with ours that on top of what we spent to get her I mean, she was in the ICU at a college hospital one time something that will still never diagnose, and we got a $13,000 bill.
Scott Benner Oh my god. Are you serious? Yes. So
Shannon Boggs I always tell people, like, make sure you consider
Scott Benner all of the things Let me just
Shannon Boggs the things that could
Scott Benner pop up that you're
Shannon Boggs not expecting.
Scott Benner Oh my god. Let me give you a little insight into what would happen if that happened to me. I'd be like, Kelly, this dog you told me we had to get, there's a bill here for $13,000 for it. It's a good it's a good thing. And then I just would curl up into a ball and lay on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Boggs It was a struggle.
Scott Benner It was bad. I was like, oh my god. Yeah. That would've that would've sent me into a very quiet I would've just walked away quietly. And you and would've been like, oh, Scott seems upset. Like
Shannon Boggs Yeah. It was a shock. It was a shock.
Scott Benner I don't know. Don't wanna know how many times your husband drove back and forth that bridge for $12,000 or how many people's hair you've had to cut to make that money or whatever. Yeah.
Shannon Boggs That's what I'm saying. I'm like, don't ever think because your fundraiser's over that that's the end of it because these dogs are still pets at the end of the day that can Yeah. You know, have emergencies.
Protecting Your Peace on Social Media
Scott Benner You know, you bring up fundraiser. I'm gonna pivot a little bit to something and that I have, like, a unique perspective on. I wonder if you have an opinion about it. And so being a person who runs, a really large community, there's certain things we just can't do. And some of them are obvious. Like, you can't let people go on on about their religion and and preach. You can't let Yeah. People talk about their politics. It just doesn't work. You can't like, you know, you can't put up a story about somebody with diabetes who was detained by ICE and passed away and say, well, this isn't statement. Well, trust me. It's gonna be in about ten minutes. Like, you know, that there's certain things you can't do. Right? One of the things you can't do is you can't let people put up links to their diabetes walks, to their I'm trying to raise money for a service dog. Yeah. I have an Instagram where I'm trying to like, anything like that. Like, we just we don't it just turns the it turns the group into a billboard. And Yep. And you and you can't do it. But it's
Shannon Boggs Also, it's so many scams. You don't know what's real and what's not real.
Scott Benner Yeah. I that's the other side of it is you're you put that post up, but you're opening up everybody who sees it into being scammed. Most people are very kind, so they're not gonna think twice about it when someone says, hey, know, can you meet me in a Walmart parking lot and bring a CGM? I'm on vacation. And I would love that for the people who, by the way, who are really in that situation and the people who wanna help them. They also don't realize that Facebook doesn't allow that. It brings bad attention to the group. Like, there's a lot of Mhmm. There's a ton of reasons. So I end up being the person who has to be like like, no. I'm removing your post about, like, your JDRF walk or you're trying to raise money for your dog or like. And then I feel like I feel like the Internet is full of, like it's, like, about a thousand people who think I'm the biggest asshole in the world because of stuff like that, but there's just nothing. I need another voice to tell them all that, like, I can't I
Shannon Boggs agree with you. I do the same you know, I get a lot of DMs. Will you share this? So and so was it an accident? My uncle's having cancer treatments. You know? And you look. You're I couldn't agree more. You just can't do it. I don't know what's real. I don't wanna open that up to my followers not knowing if this is a scam that we're falling into. So I choose the same thing. Unless it's somebody that I personally know, like, in my town that has asked me for something, I might share it, like, on my story or something and explain what it is. But if it's a stranger that I don't know, I just am too scared to open that door just mainly because I don't want people getting taken advantage of. But you running a group, I agree. You can't if you let one person do that, your whole page becomes it, and that's not what your page is for.
Scott Benner Yeah. It's it's there to help people so they can talk to each other. You you know what Like, that's what it's there for. You can't and also the algorithm ignores that stuff to begin with. Like, Facebook's not showing anybody your JDRF walk post. It's just it's not gonna show it to anybody. And then for every person who's just like, hey. You know, hey. Here's my kid's Instagram. She talks about diabetes sometimes. Like, cool. Like, that I'd be happy to leave that up except that for every person like that, you know, maybe for every 10 people like that, there's one person who really, like, maniacally is trying to start a business. They want money and they want followers. Mhmm. They're vicious about it. There's one in I have one in mind right now. I would never tell anybody who it is. Yeah. But the person came into the group, acted all like, oh, I'm just here. Like, you know, I just need help for my family and blah blah blah, and then was very quietly building up, like, you know, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and DMing everybody to, like, fill up their followers list and everything. And we I finally figured out it was happening. Mhmm. You have no idea. Like, I'm such a decent person. Like, I reached out, and I was like, hey. You can't do that. Like, please don't do that. Yeah. And my my moderator was like, just ban them. And I was like, I'm like, maybe they really you know, like, and the per the person apologized in circles. I'm so sorry, blah blah blah. Thank you for telling me. It never happened again. I don't know that they paused for an hour, just right back at it again. And so we figured out that they were still doing it, and we banned the account. And then they came back in through a spouse's account and just started doing it again. Oh. And then we figured that out and banned that account, and now that person is out in the world with a reasonable following.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. I would love to talk to you about this when we're off camera because I think I know who it is, and I got a little attacked by the same person too.
Scott Benner And then and and then it's just, like, it's crazy because then, like, then they're they talk badly about me. And I'm like, wait. What what like, I see what you're doing. Like like like, I'm you're
Shannon Boggs I mean, even even on me personally on your page, I go under I'm only following your page under my first, and it's not even my last name. So that's why when somebody tagged me or something, you didn't
Scott Benner even who I you one time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Boggs I don't comment under my page that we, like, have social we do a social media under the Boggs family. Right. I don't even comment on your page on that. Like, it's just strictly under my and that's I have my private account that's just for my local hometown friends.
Scott Benner Right.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. I mean, I've never tagged any of my stuff on yours. You know what I mean?
Scott Benner Like No. Of course. Yeah. We banned Yeah. All the pages. We banned pages. And that, by the way, that makes people upset. Like, why won't you let me be? And in the end, what I've learned is
Shannon Boggs break.
Scott Benner What I've learned is is that that group is it's so big, and it's so active that when other people are out in the world just desperate to make a business or or or a It
Shannon Boggs will never work. You have you can't go looking for followers. They just have to find you
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs By if it's meant to happen. You know?
Scott Benner But once they get a couple from a post, then it's like crack. Then they can't stop. They're like, oh, they wanna do it again and again and again. Like, oh, I posted and I got 10 followers. I'm gonna do it again. I'm like, no. You're not like, I work with companies, and I'm like, look. I'll post for you every once in a while, but we're not doing it ad nauseam. Like, these the way I explain it to everybody is those are people. They're not fish in a barrel. You you know what I mean? Like, you don't get to go hunting in that barrel. Like, those people need to feel safe here. They need to not feel like they're being sold to constantly. Yeah. And, you
Shannon Boggs I agree.
Scott Benner And and there have been elaborate scams. There's this one there was this one per one account. I don't even say guy or girl because God knows who you're actually talking to. Right? But there was one account that posed as an adult in, like, their mid to late twenties. And every time they posted, they would get two responses pretty immediately. One from both from middle aged women. And one of the women's voices was very motherly towards him, and one of the voices was very flirty towards him.
Shannon Boggs Oh, pretty.
Scott Benner It took us a while to figure out that the it was the same all three accounts were the same person. And so we banned them out and got them like, got rid of them. And I don't tell anybody anybody's business. They just but they were popular. And then people started saying, hey. Where's this person? And I'm like, look. I you know, they're not here anymore. I don't wanna say because I don't wanna, like you know you know mean? Like, I don't wanna, like Yeah. Whatever. I'm not trying to tell anybody's business. And so, like, I won't say, and then they're like, well, you should let them back there. I'm like, oh my god. You this is me? I'm like, I'm getting blamed? And I'm like, ugh. I'm just trying to live my life. It's a weird position to be in because I don't I'm not looking to be a gatekeeper on something. Yeah. Yeah. But you put it very well, like, you don't know who's scamming. I don't wanna open people up to that, and I don't have time for all this to begin with.
Shannon Boggs And, also, what you're doing already works, and you've had these rules in place for so long. Like, I wouldn't change anything
Scott Benner Yeah.
Shannon Boggs Just because people if they don't get if they get mad, go somewhere else. Don't worry about you know what I mean? Like, that's you don't have to be in my on my Facebook page.
Scott Benner Yeah. I used to have a bit of, like, a complex about, like, well, I don't wanna, like I don't wanna ban anybody because I know how valuable the space could be for them. Yeah. And there's a moment where I was like, I can't I can't that can't be my problem anymore.
Shannon Boggs No. You're right. You gotta protect your peace for sure. That's number one.
Scott Benner Yeah. That's a good way to put it exactly. So anyway Yeah. What have I not talked to you about that what I should have brought up? Did I miss anything?
Shannon Boggs I don't think so. I think we covered let's see. We covered
Scott Benner Did you I didn't even know if you didn't even put notes in, did you? Didn't even know if No.
Shannon Boggs I don't know that you sent me any. Just figured we were winging it.
Scott Benner Yeah. It went very I well, yeah. I I assumed you knew how to talk about diabetes. Yeah. What's it can I ask you a question?
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Sure.
Scott Benner How long did it take you to hold that phone up in front of you before you stopped feeling like an asshole? You know what I mean? Like like, you're like, oh, I'm dancing in front of my phone here. Or or do because you used it with your kids for fun, was it already, like
Shannon Boggs I think it was already, yeah, just kinda, like, so so natural. I think you have to get you have to get used to people are gonna talk about you no matter what. Mhmm. And especially people that know you in real life, and then they see you, like, blow up on social media. I think it sparks a lot of, like, jealousy, but I'm still the same person that I've always been. And, you know, I just had to get get it out of my head. Their opinion is none of my business.
Scott Benner I learned, like, such a long time ago that if you're gonna do anything like this, there's a wall, and you just don't care about what's on the other side of the wall.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. You just have to. I mean, once you put put yourself out there and your, you know, opinions and I mean, anything, even you know how it is. If you talk about how you don't eat a low carb diet, you have certain people coming after you saying, oh, well, you shouldn't do this. Or if you're feeding your kids a low carb diet diet, then they're going after that person. So there's always gonna be people that yeah. There's there's always gonna be people that are that are not pleased with what you're talking about, and it's like, well, you just have to get over it.
Scott Benner Low carb is such a fun one. It used to be the peep they used to be so much aggressive. It's calm either it's calm down or they've learned to leave me alone because I don't pay attention to them. I'm not sure which one it is exactly. Yeah. But that one's interesting or just anything, really. Like, anybody my favorite one my group has, like, I think we're, like, up to, like, 84,000 people. Right? Mhmm. The activity's insane every day. And the other day, somebody comes on and goes, you know, you shouldn't be asking people on the Internet for their advice. And I was like, you're in a community for type one diabetes. Like, look at all the posts. They're all Yeah. Like, do you not know what the Internet is? And I was
Shannon Boggs like It's not like you can just walk out on the street and ask your neighbors because so many people don't have diabetes. Yeah. Like, you have to branch out to find a community.
Scott Benner I I I just I love it when somebody seems to not understand fundamentally what the Internet is, and then they're they're like, you you shouldn't ask other people this. I'm like, oh my gosh.
Shannon Boggs No. I mean, I truly have gotten so much help by being like, hey, guys. What do you do for this? Or, you know, what's what's your opinion?
Scott Benner How do I deal with this?
Shannon Boggs Because I'm still navigating so many new things. Even though we've had it for three years, I'm we're getting ready to hit the preteenage. And I know when I go into the teenage age, we're gonna go through a whole another wave of struggles and trials that I'm gonna have to figure out how to navigate. So I feel like the Internet is so important.
Parenting Through the Teenage Years
Scott Benner Yeah. Me too. But it's gonna change so many different times. You you can't even fathom it right now. Yeah. Like, it's gonna pivot so many things.
Shannon Boggs Hardest part for you as far as being a dad? What age group or what moment that you're like, this is probably the hardest?
Scott Benner I think the hardest part was when she was sort of like, hey. I can do this myself, and yet she wasn't really there yet.
Shannon Boggs Mhmm. And What age was that?
Scott Benner It felt like it happened a little bit in high school where, like, you don't need to, like you know, dad, you don't need to do this. Like, you know what I mean? Like or, you know but still enough where she needed help or that didn't last long. It just happened once in a while. Like, every once in a while, she seemed like, why are you like, I don't need your help. And then five seconds later, she needs your help. Yeah. And then college, she was, you know, we were she was doing great. I wasn't really very contact you know, I wasn't contact her that much. I was more of, like, I was more of, like, diabetes Google for her. You know what I mean? She'd be like, how do I do this? What's this thing? And she'd go off and do it on her own. But now in the last couple of years and she's gonna be 22 this summer. Like, I'm not saying I'm, like, involved, but, like, she's going and this is where I'm personally having the most difficulty. If she's going through a very healthy, you know, part of her life where she's figuring out, like, who she is and and she's, you know, pushing back a little and separating from a lot of different things, which you would expect kids to do, and I've my son did, and you you want them to do that. Except when that thing turns into, well, I don't wanna change my CGM until, like, the last possible second, or I know my pump's not working well for the last eight hours, but I'm not changing it until after dinner.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. We go through that a lot.
Scott Benner Yeah. And you're sitting there thinking, like, just change it now. It'll make the next twelve hours of your life so much easier if you just do this now. But you don't say that because you understand that she's she's learning about herself and diabetes in the world and her as an adult. And I do believe she'll I do believe that it's gonna be a process that she'll come back. I I don't wanna make it sound like she's, like, off the off the reservation. Like, Arden's got, like, a six. I think her a one c is, like, six, seven right now. But that's completely managed on her own while she's in while she's in college. It's fantastic. You know?
Shannon Boggs Absolutely.
Scott Benner You give it back to me right now. I'll have it at a $5.06 in a month.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Benner That's not what we're doing anymore. And so the difficult part is just shutting your mouth.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. I'm having to learn that.
Scott Benner Like Yeah.
Shannon Boggs I have to you know, we give my daughter a lot of freedom. She proves us to be that she handles it well. Mhmm. But when she's away at a friend's house for a weekend and we let her go overnight, like, maybe to her cousin's house and stuff, I will not hear from her. I used to hear, you know, hey. Send me a picture of food. What should I bolus for? I don't hear anything. And her blood sugar is usually pretty darn good, like, range the whole time.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Shannon Boggs And I've had to learn, like, don't check up on her. Don't you know, unless she's really low. Like, she's like, don't call me unless I'm, like, in the sixties and I've been there for a while. Like, give me a chance to you know? So I I know that as we get into high school, it's gonna be more of that just trying to let go a little bit of the of the control and let her be her own person and make those own decisions.
Scott Benner There are plenty of people who are listening whose kids it's not gonna work out for. Like, diabetes is a lot about personality. Yeah. Right? Like, the way you would handle diabetes is the way you'd handle a job or going to college or not going to college. Like like, the way people think about things, and it's gonna impact diabetes too. I think I know Arden pretty well, and I think I know where she's gonna land. I think as an adult, she's gonna be like a low six a one c kind of person.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. And that's what I would hope for for my daughter. I think that's great.
Scott Benner Yep. And there's a couple of little decisions along the way that right now don't get made timely enough that are keeping that from happening. Same. But this is certainly not hurting her. And I do think well, you know, Sean, I've just I've interviewed so many freaking people that what I know is is that when a kid is diagnosed younger and they go off to college, there's a chance they're just gonna not pay attention at all. And and the college is gonna be a one c's and tens and eleven's, there's nothing people can do about it, etcetera. And then they graduate, become adults, and then they end up getting themselves together normally for the love of someone else. It's always like, met a girl or I met a guy. I wanna get married. I wanna be healthy. I had a baby. I wanna be here for them. Like, people have those real, like, human moments, and then they usually turn to their diabetes and fix it up. Don't I think Arden's gonna go through that process, but I still know that that's a human process. And so as if she's handling it this well right now, I don't wanna be the one telling her, no. You're taking the service dog to school. I don't care if you have a test. Like, know I
Shannon Boggs mean? Exactly.
Scott Benner Right. Right. So, like, I just say I go, okay. This is good. And if something happens that's I mean, I still follow her. You know? I don't look at her blood sugar very often. But if but if something happens, not a lot, And I'm very careful about it because the way you approach her is important and the tone and it's all very important. Right? But you don't want her to feel like she's being watched or judged or that she's failing because she's trying really hard to begin with. There's a lot to consider in there. But, like, I might go to her and go, hey. Look. You know, you know, you're two twenty right now. You put 30 carbs in. Like, I saw you eat. Like, that was 50 carbs. Like, you know Mhmm. You missed. You know what I mean? You know, I think you need to bolus more. And sometimes she'll say, I got it. And sometimes she'll say, how much do you think? And every once in a while, you can tell when she's tired. She might just slide the phone towards me like, oh, okay. Well, let's let this Jack do it because he knows what he's doing. You know what I mean? Like and there's Yeah. And there's and you're
Shannon Boggs also You created such a healthy space for her, and I like that and appreciate it because that's a lot of how we do things. Mhmm. I see a lot of parents with really, really great control with really young kids that don't know any different because they were diagnosed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if they were diagnosed at a young age, they don't have a lot of to compare it with. And if if they're not in school with other kids eating things and my thing was, like, just want her to live as normal as she can, and I want her to have a good relationship with food. I don't wanna create, like, a negative relationship with food.
Scott Benner Very important.
Shannon Boggs By restricting her too much.
Scott Benner You also don't wanna build a a bad relationship with you.
Shannon Boggs It yeah. That too. That too.
Scott Benner And you don't wanna be so lenient that you hurt her health. Yes. It gets a very fine line to walk. It's Yeah. It is not easy. That's for sure.
Shannon Boggs I know. I mean, we've definitely had our struggles, highs and lows with it, but I do feel like we're in a good spot now. You know, she's making good she's starting to realize what spikes her and what she thinks. Like, this past month, she's like, mom, don't I think I'm gonna eat chips anymore for a while. I'm gonna try to get into good shape, and she's running a five k. She's, you know, dancing, doing softball. And I was like, okay. And the other day, she said, have you noticed how good my blood sugar's been since I stopped eating chips? I was like, yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. I didn't wanna mention it. But yep.
Shannon Boggs I loved that she made that decision on her own, but she also noticed Yep. That it's better.
Scott Benner We left Arden's appointment one time, and we just got out in the parking lot. And she was like, is there something I could do to make this easier? And about her diabetes and and blood sugars and everything. And I said, honestly, I hate saying this to you. I was like, but could you stop eating cereal for a little while while I figure while I figure this out? Words. Yeah. I'm like, because I just didn't it was a long time ago. I just didn't have it. I I could bolus your cereal now. Like, it's no trouble. But, like, back then, I did not know what I was doing. Yeah. And I was like I was like, if you could just give me a month without the cereal so I could figure the rest of it out, I think I could figure the cereal out after that. And she was like, okay. I don't think she ate cereal for years after that. Yeah. She was just like, oh, and it just kinda left her the cycle was broken with it, and it just didn't happen anymore.
Shannon Boggs We still haven't quite figured out cereal, but what we have figured out is she can have it at lunch or dinnertime, and it does a lot better than first thing in the morning. So she avoids it in the morning, and every now and then she'll ask for a bowl at, like, bedtime or, you know, before dinner, and it's just so much better. It's just that morning that we really struggle.
Scott Benner The morning's probably pretty simple. It's probably overnight. She's probably getting less insulin overnight to keep her from getting low. She wakes up, gets feet on the floor, so she gets that big kinda Yeah. Like, adrenaline push, and there's already an amount of insulin that's missing from the lower overnight use. And then the sugar hits her quicker, the Yeah. And the milk and and the the carbs hold her up, and you're you lose before you start. Like, you you'd have to bolus probably while she's in bed to replace the the lost basil and then still do a good twenty minute pre bolus before she eats the cereal.
Shannon Boggs Yep. Yeah.
Scott Benner Then you're probably but that's a lot of timing while you're trying to go to the to school or to run out the door for something or something like that. Yeah. I take your point. Well, listen. This was Roy, and it was nice to get to meet you and talk to you like this.
Shannon Boggs Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Scott Benner No. It's so it's it's it's really been lovely. We'll get off here. I'll tell you about how long until it comes out and, a couple other things. And, alright, I'll talk to you later. Thanks.
Outro
Scott Benner This episode was sponsored by Touched by Type one. I want you to go find them on Facebook, Instagram, and give them a follow. And then head to touchedbytype1.org where you're gonna learn all about their programs and resources for people with type one diabetes. The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. Learn more about Tandem's newest automated insulin delivery system, Tandem Mobi with Control IQ plus technology at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at juiceboxpodcast.com. I'd like to thank the Eversense three sixty five for sponsoring this episode of the juice box podcast and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every 14, you want the Eversense CGM. Eversensecgm.com/juicebox. One year. One CGM. Okay. Well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me? Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram, TikTok. Oh, gosh. Here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't wanna miss please, do you not know about the private group? You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. They're active talking about diabetes. Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now. And I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say hi. If you'd like to hear about diabetes management in easy to take in bits, check out the small sips. That's the series on the Juice Box podcast that listeners are talking about like it's a cheat code. These are perfect little bursts of clarity, one person said. I finally understood things I've heard a 100 times. Short, simple, and somehow exactly what I needed. People say small sips feels like someone pulling up a chair, sliding a cup across the table, and giving you one clean idea at a time. Nothing overwhelming, No fire hose of information. Just steady helpful nudges that actually stick. People listen in their car, on walks, or rather actually bolusing anytime that they need a quick shot of perspective. And the reviews, they all say the same thing. Small sips makes diabetes make sense. Search for the Juice Box podcast, small sips, wherever you get audio. If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. Listen. Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go, and stuff like that. And it just I don't know, man. Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? And then I remember because I did one smart thing. I hired Rob at wrong way recording dot com.
#1847 Power of PACEs: Emotional Safety, Belonging, and Unconditional Love
In the final PACEs episode, Scott and Erika detail how emotional safety, connection, unconditional love, and purpose foster lasting resilience and offset early adversity.
Companies that Support Juicebox
Key Takeaways
- Emotional Safety is Foundational: Allowing children to express negative emotions—like hating diabetes—without judgment builds trust and long-term resilience.
- Connection Offsets Adversity: A sense of belonging, both within the family unit and through outside mentors or activities, serves as a powerful protective layer against childhood trauma.
- Love Must Be Unconditional: Separating a child's worth from their performance, behavior, or diabetes numbers ensures they feel fundamentally safe and supported at home.
- The Power of Purpose: Having a meaningful goal or hobby gives children direction and a sense of community, which is crucial for building coping skills.
- Model Healthy Rest: Learning to rest and care for your body without guilt teaches children that it is okay to prioritize well-being over perfectionism.
Resources Mentioned
- Erika Forsyth, MFT: erikaforsyth.com
- Dexcom G7: dexcom.com/juicebox
- Omnipod 5: omnipod.com/juicebox
- Cozy Earth (Use code JUICE BOX for 20% off): cozyearth.com
- Juice Cruise 2026: juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise
- Wrong Way Recording: wrongwayrecording.com
- Juicebox Podcast Private Facebook Group
Introduction & The PACES Series
Scott Benner Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast. (0:15) Hey, friends. (0:16) Welcome back to the Paces series. (0:17) Today is the fourth and final episode. (0:20) Over this series, we've talked about adversity, protective relationships, and the environments that help people grow stronger.
Scott Benner The big takeaway from all this research is hopeful. (0:29) The brain is shaped by experiences, but it's also capable of healing and adapting. (0:34) In this final episode, Eric and I will pull the ideas together and talk about what truly builds resilience, emotional safety, belonging, purpose, community, and the everyday experiences that help people living with diabetes feel supported, capable, and not alone. (0:51) If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. (0:57) Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes.
Scott Benner But everybody is welcome. (1:02) Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. (1:06) If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. (1:16) Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:21) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.
Scott Benner The episode you're about to enjoy was brought to you by Dexcom, the Dexcom g seven, the same CGM that my daughter wears. (1:38) You can learn more and get started today at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox. (1:44) Today's episode is also sponsored by the Omnipod five. (1:48) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free what'd I just say? (1:56) A free Omnipod five starter kit.
Scott Benner Free? (2:00) Get out of here. (2:01) Go click on that link. (2:02) Omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:04) Check it out.
Scott Benner Terms and conditions apply. (2:06) Eligibility may vary. (2:08) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:13) Links in the show notes. (2:14) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com.
Scott Benner The podcast is also sponsored today by Cozy Earth. (2:21) You can use my offer code juice box at checkout to save 20% off of your entire order at cozyearth.com. (2:29) Everything from the joggers that I'm actually wearing right now to the sheets I sleep on, the towels I use to dry myself with, and whatever else is available at cozyearth.com. (2:40) Just use the offer code juice box at checkout. (2:43) Erica, we are back to do the last little bit of I don't even have a name for this series yet as we're recording it.
Scott Benner Is it what do you what what do you think we should call it?
Erika Forsyth I think we should call it the the PACE series.
Scott Benner Okay.
Erika Forsyth P a c e or the PACES series.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth Alright. (3:01) And that's really exciting.
Scott Benner Listen. (3:04) It just needs a name that makes sense.
Erika Forsyth Okay.
Scott Benner This is kind of a wrap up episode. (3:08) It'll be probably much shorter than the other ones are, but it still has a lot of it it's not a wrap up of, you know, just like we're not just gonna say the things we said over again. (3:17) There's a a good bit of information we're gonna talk about, kind of the opposite of the ACEs testing. (3:23) Probably a good time to remind people in case they find this episode without having the whole series is that and a number of months ago, I found myself just wondering, you know, there's these this test, right, that people take that and I don't know what to even call it. (3:37) I still don't.
Scott Benner Even after talking about all this, is it a predictor? (3:40) Is it how do
Erika Forsyth you The assessment. (3:43) ACE assessment?
Scott Benner Yeah. (3:45) The yeah. (3:45) Do you take that assessment?
Erika Forsyth ACE test. (3:47) Mhmm.
Scott Benner Right. (3:48) And the questions are, you know, did you, then an adult often swear at you, insult you, humiliate you? (3:54) Like, there's like it's like a 10 part test. (3:57) And Mhmm. (3:58) You told me about it years ago, and the the more of these things that happen to a person I don't know how to finish that sentence though.
Scott Benner Like, the more things on that test that you can say yes to, the what. (4:09) Like, how does that is it a a one to one transfer of that or not particularly?
Erika Forsyth There's an increased likelihood of having various challenges, whether it's mental health challenges, relational, professional. (4:29) So you have an increased likelihood of because of your of your past experiences, the trauma that you experienced from those increase the likelihood kind of not not of it's not predictive, but increases the likelihood of having various challenges.
Scott Benner Even medical some medical conditions.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (4:50) Yes.
Scott Benner Which is Mhmm. (4:52) I mean, both seems insane and makes sense. (4:55) You know? (4:55) Mhmm. (4:56) I've been really, I don't know, enamored with this idea since you and I talked about it the very first time.
Scott Benner Yes. (5:03) And I found myself thinking, you know, recently, this is how this all started. (5:08) I wonder if there are things that happen to people that are, you know, predictive of fewer problems or even if they can be, I don't know, helpful if you have some on the bad side and some on the good side. (5:20) Like, do they balance out somehow? (5:21) And I it's funny because just before we started recording, I still said I don't know how to talk about this well.
Scott Benner And then I I started to say, and I we hit records that I could say it here. (5:31) It almost feels to me like you're wearing a suit of armor with 10 layers on it. (5:35) Right? (5:36) And 10 layers gets you through life pretty well. (5:39) But did an adult often swear you insult you or humiliate you?
Scott Benner Yes. (5:43) Now I have nine layers of armor. (5:45) And I know this isn't exactly perfect, but, like, it's the way it manifests in my brain when we talk about it over and over again. (5:52) So do you lose three layers? (5:54) And then on the other side, do you gain a couple back?
Scott Benner You know? (5:57) And I started to say to you, like, since, you know, since this has been going on for me, you know, this wonderment about this, I bring it up a lot when I'm recording with people. (6:07) Like, I'll say to them, have you ever heard of the, you know, the ACES test? (6:11) And they'll say yes or no or whatever, and then we'll do it live while we're recording. (6:16) And the people who seem like they're doing well, even though they've had a lot of those ACES things happen to them, are also reporting a lot of the positive stuff too.
Scott Benner Just, you know, like, I was involved in community events. (6:32) I, you know, I took you know, I did I felt like there were two adults who had my back, like, if they weren't my parents, like, stuff like that. (6:38) And I think it's fascinating. (6:40) But moreover, aside of being fascinated by it, I think it's good for people who are raising children to hear because maybe your life's not perfect or you can't do everything right or there's been somebody in your life has, you know, created a a tornado and you and and now it's part of who you are. (6:57) Here are some other things maybe you could do to offset that.
Scott Benner And, that's what we're gonna talk about today is that that kind of thing. (7:04) Make sense?
Erika Forsyth Yes. (7:06) And that's a great summary and explanation. (7:10) And and while, yes, if you have yourself been exposed to a lot of the ACEs, what we also have discovered and talked about is that not only if if you didn't experience a lot of the protective experiences or the positive childhood experiences before 18, it's also not too late, right, to heal from some of those things by engaging in some of these protective and compensatory experiences. (7:43) So I think that's pretty hopeful and encouraging also. (7:46) So while you can be thinking and listening as a parent yourself as you're raising your child, this also hopefully instills some some hope for yourself in in your healing journey.
Scott Benner I know that the way my brain thinks about it sounds kinda negative, but I actually think of it as a really positive conversation. (8:04) Mhmm. (8:04) I also wanna point out to people, this doesn't mean you can backhand your kid then take them to the fair and go, it's alright. (8:09) I I counterbalanced it with that. (8:11) Don't worry.
Scott Benner You know, I guess, Erica, like, I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of people and talked to them about how they've grown up. (8:18) And some people are just in situations and more people than you would would believe if you're out there listening to this sometimes, they're in situations not of their own making that have adverse reactions, you know, and and impacts on their lives, and it's there's nothing you can do about it. (8:33) You're nine years old. (8:34) You can't do anything about your dad going to jail, but turns out that's one of the things. (8:38) You know?
Scott Benner But the people behind, like you said, they can, you know, they can help to impact things the other way. (8:45) And I also think if you're an adult and you look back and you're like, you know, I do have some dysregulation issues and, you know, I do have a lot of things on that list. (8:55) I hope that they understand that it doesn't have to stay like that. (8:59) You know, like, there maybe are things you could do to put some more layers of that armor back on again, maybe. (9:05) There's seven is that right?
Scott Benner There's seven or eight positive childhood experiences. (9:13) Is that right?
Erika Forsyth There are let's see. (9:17) Yeah. (9:17) We talked about them
Scott Benner in the last
Erika Forsyth two episodes.
Scott Benner Yeah. (9:20) Yeah. (9:20) Feeling able to talk to family about feelings, feeling supported by family during difficult times, enjoying participating in community traditions, feeling a sense of belonging in school, feeling supported by friends, having at least one non parent adult who took a genuine interest in you, feeling safe and protected by an adult at home. (9:39) It's kind of interesting because I've gone through this with people who have said that they had a negative experience by not feeling safe at home, but also could report that they had an adult at home that they felt safe with. (9:52) So all the adults in the house weren't not safe to them.
Emotional Safety and Support
Scott Benner Let's just go through the things that that we have here and and give people some ideas about what they can do maybe to build a happy home for themselves and maybe off put offset some of this other stuff. (10:07) You wanna go?
Erika Forsyth Yes. (10:08) Okay. (10:09) So, and this will maybe feel a little bit like a review, but we thought this was a nice cohesive list and, to address. (10:19) And
Scott Benner yeah. (10:20) Yeah. (10:20) If you heard the first three and you're in for the fourth one, we wanted to end on a a positive upswing, which will keep me from talking a lot. (10:27) Go go ahead.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (10:30) So and this is, you know, about, I like that armor analogy. (10:35) What we're ultimately talking about and that we've discussed in other series is the the sense of resilience and how does that occur even despite or because of past trauma. (10:47) Can you still build resilience? (10:49) Just I don't know if we've talked about this before, but someone asked me recently, like, how how do you define resilience?
Erika Forsyth And I probably used this definition before, but it's if you think about a blade of grass and someone steps on the grass, it might stay down for briefly, but eventually, it will come back up. (11:09) Mhmm. (11:09) And so I like just that while we're using the armor analogy, just using this visual of of the blade of grass that, yes, you you still might experience hard things, but you also can return and resume life and maybe even stronger.
Scott Benner I'd like to add on to your to your analogy for a second. (11:28) Well, that grass doesn't just stand back up. (11:30) It actually reaches for the sun. (11:32) That's what it's doing. (11:33) It's trying to get itself closer to the light.
Scott Benner Like, so it pulls itself back up reaching for the light. (11:39) So, you know, there you go.
Erika Forsyth That's good. (11:41) That's good.
Scott Benner It's true. (11:43) I think the whole world's, like, running on the same eight principles just spread out over a bunch of different categories, but that's neither here nor there.
Erika Forsyth So Okay. (11:50) Here we go. (11:50) Okay. (11:51) The first one, emotional safety and support. (11:56) So you feel safe most of the time, you know, expressing your emotions without fear or shame that you aren't worried about getting in trouble if you are happy or sad or scared.
Erika Forsyth I think that's a really important one.
Scott Benner So letting people feel free to communicate how they actually feel. (12:18) And and what? (12:18) Then not judging them in return?
Erika Forsyth Not judging them or not. (12:23) Sometimes it can be hard to hear your child express fear around something. (12:29) I mean, like, for example, diabetes or hatred towards it. (12:33) And oftentimes, we might want to say, oh, no. (12:36) But you're so strong.
Erika Forsyth It's okay. (12:38) You're gonna be okay. (12:39) I think in that moment, saying, it is it can be hard sometimes. (12:44) Mhmm. (12:44) And I get why you don't like it, or I get that you don't or you hate it.
Erika Forsyth And we're also doing these other things. (12:51) Right? (12:51) So just always providing that freedom of expression even if it triggers something with you in in you that feels scary.
Scott Benner And examine if your response is really to make them feel better or to stop you from feeling uncomfortable hearing what makes them sad. (13:08) Right?
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Scott Benner That makes sense?
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Scott Benner Yeah. (13:12) Are you trying to stop yourself from feeling uncomfortable or are you trying to help them with your response?
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner And understanding that you can't you probably can't really help them, like, flip a switch and fix it. (13:24) And the thing that helps people most is just letting them express themselves, let them feel heard, and then what you mirror back to them what they've said so they know you heard them.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (13:36) That's reflective listening. (13:37) That's good.
Scott Benner I know what it is. (13:38) Don't worry. (13:38) I just you you talk me. (13:40) I'm saying it for the others. (13:42) I I Yes.
Scott Benner So listen with empathy and and be consistent with that. (13:47) What do you think that means? (13:48) Be consistent. (13:49) It means, like, let them feel like when they come to you, you're always going to be about in the same modulation. (13:57) Right?
Scott Benner Like, you're not gonna be flipping out one time and super calm the next time. (14:02) That is that the idea?
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Erika Forsyth That would be the idea. (16:19) Although, in reality, I'm just even you know, that is probably hard to always be a safe
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth You know, objective, calm listener, and that's that's that's called a therapist, hopefully.
Scott Benner Erica's like Erica's like, can't even do that for my own kids. (16:34) You want me to tell them to do it for for their kids?
Erika Forsyth I mean, it's hard to show up and be, like, just calm and invalidated. (16:41) It is it's impossible to do that all the time, but I think they know, particularly when they risk being vulnerable with you, and you can just even reflect back. (16:53) Like, that sounds like you're really scared.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth And you might be scared inside too. (16:58) That sounds like you're really mad. (17:00) I mean, it's it is so basic when you repeat, but that's usually all they want is to know that you heard them.
Scott Benner I will say this too. (17:08) If sometimes you try to hide how you feel or whatnot, but I don't think you can do that from my own personal experience. (17:13) Like, somebody's gonna come to you with a need at some point when you're tired or feeling crappy or whatever. (17:18) Mhmm. (17:19) And I think that people can tell your intent.
Scott Benner So if you're generally a good, well meaning person in this relationship and they catch you on a bad day, I don't think they're gonna just judge you on that bad day. (17:32) And even if you're trying, but it's not coming off well, maybe not in the moment, but I think over time, cumulatively, I think people understand your intent. (17:40) So, you know Yes. (17:42) Okay. (17:42) What's this other one?
Erika Forsyth And there's always space to repair and apologize.
Scott Benner Absolutely. (17:46) Yeah. (17:47) You know, nothing is like, nothing you do is the end. (17:50) Like, you can Mhmm. (17:51) You can always try again.
Scott Benner You have at least one adult oh, this one here. (17:55) Do you have at least one adult, past or present, who made you feel protected, seen, and valued? (18:00) So you can be that person for children in your family and in your home
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner Is is the point.
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Connection and Belonging
Scott Benner Number two here, connection and belonging. (18:09) Tell me about that, please.
Erika Forsyth So everyone wants to belong. (18:13) Right? (18:14) That is such a part of our human nature because we feel safe and seen. (18:19) And so this is an important part of developing resilience and health is feeling like you belong, whether it's in your family of origin, your community, your friends, your sports, your activities, that you have, you know, affinity groups. (18:36) I think that's why there there's so many different ages and stages of of groups for people with diabetes out there.
Erika Forsyth Because even though we all have diabetes, we might even feel more connected in a group that's for our age or or your orientation or whatever it may be. (18:53) Everyone wants to feel like they are seen and they belong.
Scott Benner Right. (18:57) We've all met people who felt like they were on the outside in their family growing up. (19:02) And then you talk to their parents, their parents don't know what they're talking about. (19:05) And nobody seems to be a bad actor in this scenario. (19:09) It could be either, I guess, right, that the parents weren't as inclusive as they thought they were and or the kid wasn't as available to what was being offered to them as they could have been.
Scott Benner Is it like, it's such a sad thing when you see it happen.
Erika Forsyth I I would go back. (19:26) I wonder how safe that if the child is feeling excluded and, you know, how safe do they feel to communicate their feelings? (19:34) Yeah. (19:35) Like, what is what is the the sense of safety around expression of emotion? (19:41) Sometimes those might go hand in hand.
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Erika Forsyth Yeah. (20:51) I mean, yes. (20:51) I would say being aware if if we're talking about, you know, younger children, making it safe to express how you're feeling and to ensure that people in your family unit feel seen
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth And safe and that they belong. (21:06) Yes. (21:07) I mean, again, depending on what age we're talking about. (21:10) But for yes. (21:10) Young children, teens, for sure.
Scott Benner Yeah. (21:13) Are there people who just don't like their kids?
Erika Forsyth I mean, do you like your kids all the time?
Scott Benner No. (21:19) I don't mean like that. (21:20) I mean, like well, I, you know, I use the same example over and over again, but I know people who got pregnant and didn't mean to, and then their lives didn't go the way they thought. (21:31) And I can see them taking it out on the kid who was born from that pregnancy. (21:36) Like, they seem mad at them.
Scott Benner I love you and you're awesome and all that stuff, but you are the reason why I'm not where I wanna be or x y z or something like that. (21:45) I I don't know. (21:46) I've just I've seen that more than once for sure. (21:48) And and what are supposed to do about that if you're a kid? (21:50) You know?
Scott Benner How are explaining that to anybody? (21:54) I told you I'd make this sad.
Erika Forsyth I that's I've that that is a complicated complicated scenario, scenario, Scott. (21:59) Scott.
Scott Benner I think I would I'll just bring it up so that people listening can know if there's something you could be broadcasting that back to your kids and not know it. (22:09) Yeah. (22:09) And if that if you have any inkling like that might be you, go find a therapist is what I'm saying. (22:14) Anyway, let's get through this list.
Erika Forsyth Yeah. (22:16) It's positive. (22:17) List. (22:17) Okay. (22:17) A
Scott Benner positive experience. (22:19) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (22:21) And then with this this section of connection and belonging, like we've discussed before, important that you feel you receive care and attention and security from other people outside of your family. (22:33) So right? (22:33) So not only do you feel the connection inside, but also from your teachers or your coaches, community members, your neighbors Mhmm. (22:41) Mentors, things like that.
Love and Stability at Home
Scott Benner Nice. (22:43) Okay. (22:44) Number three, love and stability at home.
Erika Forsyth So home feels having a safe home, it feels not only, you know, emotionally safe, but also physically. (22:55) And we've we've discussed this in the last two episodes about having the predictable routines, the the actual physical affection and connection and an eye contact and touch, and that it can be upon receiving and seeing one another, you know, very it's just it's quality, not quantity of time.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth And we talked and then about the forgiveness of repair when things don't go always as smoothly as you want.
Scott Benner You just let it go. (23:23) Family members support each other in hard times, and love isn't conditional on performance or perfection. (23:30) That's the rest of that. (23:31) What's a common way that that the conditional love rears its head? (23:37) Like, what would that look like practically?
Erika Forsyth I well, I think, certainly, with the and we could talk about blood sugars, but I could see it pop up in other areas such as, you know, your academic performance, your athletic or extracurricular performance? (23:54) Do you feel, as a child, do you experience like you're only gonna be loved if you get certain grades or if you, you know, perform in a certain way, or even inside the home, how are you acting, you know, your behavior? (24:10) Obviously, you want to encourage kindness and, you know, respect, but is if the child presents as being a child sometimes. (24:21) You know, like, let's say a a child shows up in there, they are having a tantrum. (24:25) They are being a kid for whatever reason, or they're having a low blood sugar or a high blood sugar, being mindful that the child knows they are loved no matter what
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth Is really important, but also really hard concept because they also still need to be, you know, redirected and disciplined and shaped. (24:47) And oftentimes, I know this can get really blurry around discipline, but also feeling guilty or badly about blood sugars and having diabetes. (24:57) You know, that there's it's hard to navigate those areas.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth But that your child feels unconditionally loved and supported is is so important.
Scott Benner So for people who are hearing that and thinking, like, yeah, you're gonna make these kids soft, why is that not the case? (25:14) Why is kindness and empathy and respect not a pathway to, you know, the things that people are scared about if they're not tough on their kids?
Erika Forsyth Well, I think what if we're hearing some of those words and going to the extreme of just, you know, letting kids rule the house, that's not necessarily what we're talking about. (25:35) Right? (25:35) Like, I think there is a line of having household rules and expectations and boundaries and having space for for grace and empathy and validation.
Scott Benner But it's a is it a movement Yes. (25:53) Of parenting movement? (25:55) Yes. (25:55) Well, I'll tell you why
Erika Forsyth talked you about it in the parenting series.
Scott Benner That's fine. (25:58) When you you think about it for a second, I'll tell you what I've done is I've set a line out in the distance, and they all know as long as we're playing on that on this side of the line, everything's gonna be fine. (26:10) But there's a different me that they don't a 100% know. (26:13) We don't wanna cross over the fence to the other side and meet that guy. (26:17) My kids have been very good about that.
Scott Benner I don't think I've, you know, yelled at my children in fifteen years. (26:23) Do you know what I mean? (26:24) Like but there was there's a couple moments where something happened. (26:27) I was like, we made rules. (26:28) You broke the rules.
Scott Benner There's you know, you're gonna go sit in your room for a terrible amount of time, you know, staring at a wall or, you know, that kind of stuff. (26:36) Like, you know, there's been some there's some punitive action from me about that. (26:40) I've always thought growing up that they knew it. (26:42) Now that they're adults, we talked about I forgot what you're talking about, but Arden's like, oh, I never would have done that growing up. (26:47) I think she was talking with her friends.
Scott Benner And her friend said, why? (26:50) And she said, I think my dad would have killed me. (26:52) And, like, I but I've never, like, expressed that. (26:55) But I did give her enough of, like, we should live on this side and happy side over here, and I'm happy to live over here with happy side. (27:03) But let's not go over here and find out what happens over here.
Scott Benner I don't know. (27:07) Like, maybe I got lucky. (27:08) Maybe it just worked and, you know, or whatever. (27:10) But, anyway, what's the soft pairing called? (27:12) What what makes no place?
Erika Forsyth I I once started listening to your story. (27:16) I wanted to be attentive. (27:16) So I but it's in our parenting series.
Scott Benner Erica is so polite. (27:20) I spoke about something so she could go look into something. (27:23) She goes, well, I wanted to be attentive while you're speaking. (27:26) Why? (27:26) You you must be such a good therapist.
Scott Benner Well I mean, I'm healthier since I met you, so I guess it's I I guess I am. (27:33) Anyway, let's go into four. (27:35) Purpose and meaning. (27:35) Okay. (27:35) Yeah.
Purpose and Meaning
Scott Benner We'll move on. (27:36) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (27:37) So number where are we? (27:40) Number four. (27:41) Purpose and meaning, having something to care about, having a sense of purpose, having a sense of, you know, why are we doing this, whether it's your kind of your beliefs, your goals in life. (27:54) And I think that's really important.
Erika Forsyth We talked about this too around outside of diabetes, it's also important to have purpose and meaning.
Scott Benner Yeah. (28:03) So it doesn't matter even, like, if the thing I have purp I find purpose with when I'm eight years old is not the same thing as when I'm 14. (28:10) It's not the same thing as when I'm 18. (28:12) As long as that when I'm up and moving during the day, I have a goal. (28:15) I'm oriented towards that goal.
Scott Benner It makes me feel like I'm something. (28:20) Right? (28:20) Meaningful, like, working towards something.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (28:24) And and in that per in the action of that, you are gonna be experiencing belonging. (28:30) Right? (28:30) Because you're working along other groups or members of a group who are all wanting the same goal or outcome, and I think that's important.
Scott Benner Let's say your kid picks blue nail polish and some weird comic books and but they've got a bunch of friends who like it too. (28:48) Like, you should just be happy that they have that. (28:50) Right? (28:50) Like, that there's a thing they enjoy that's even if that thing is something that you look at and go, oh, this is not what I had in mind. (28:58) But they still they have friendship and they have community and they have a sense of belonging and something they feel focused on.
Scott Benner Like, I would think you should be happy for that.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (29:07) And I think it's I don't wanna say you should, but I think to look at it, like, does your child feel safe? (29:14) Does your child feel like he's he's a part of something bigger?
Scott Benner Yeah. (29:18) I don't mean them and the kids. (29:19) Yeah. (29:19) I don't mean they're, like, sacrificing a goat or anything like that. (29:22) I mean, they just they they're doing something that's different than your idea of what would be fun.
Scott Benner Like, for example, what if my children would have wanted to play soccer? (29:31) What a scourge that would have been on my life, Erica. (29:34) Okay? (29:35) But I would have showed up at that soccer field and watched that dumb game that's meaningless and and ends one nothing or zero zero. (29:42) I would have done that.
Scott Benner Okay? (29:44) Now God bless them. (29:45) They love baseball, so they saved me. (29:47) But no. (29:48) But seriously, like, you know, I've known people, good parents sitting at baseball fields who don't give a shit about baseball.
Scott Benner They hate it, and they're cheering louder than anybody else. (30:00) They don't complain. (30:00) I don't think their kid would even know they don't like baseball. (30:03) Again, I've seen I've seen good parents do that. (30:05) And I I'm trying to say to you that if one of my kids would have made the horrifying decision to play soccer, that I would have been that person who would have clapped and said that was good.
Scott Benner I would have learned what all the dumb little things meant, I would have acted excited at the end of a game when it was zero zero. (30:19) Okay? (30:19) I would have talked about the great defense and the hustle and everything else even though inside of my brain, my adult mind would have known we've wasted our time with this stupid game.
Erika Forsyth Oh, gosh. (30:30) You're gonna get some feedback around soccer.
Scott Benner I just like screwing with the people who like soccer. (30:33) That's all. (30:34) Good.
Erika Forsyth Well, I think the what what what it is is you might experience some either grief or loss I would. (30:41) Or or confusion within yourself that your child is choosing to do something or believe in something or participate in something that is not in alignment of your own desires. (30:51) So I think it's okay to acknowledge that, but then also championing championing their heart's desire is a beautiful thing.
Scott Benner Can I pick your rein? (31:00) Take a slight left turn on something I know you didn't think we'd talk about today?
Erika Forsyth Uh-huh. (31:05) Maybe.
Scott Benner I think it's apropos of time. (31:07) Right? (31:08) Mhmm. (31:08) What do I do if my kid picks a different political leaning than I have in the house? (31:16) How do I not end up where we just all don't like each other anymore?
Scott Benner That seems to be a big deal nowadays. (31:23) So, like Mhmm. (31:24) I'm sure in the past as well. (31:25) I think we're going over the answers. (31:27) The answers are you think one way, they think another way, they're happy, be happy that they're happy.
Scott Benner But what happens when one side of the coin believes that the other side is making an existential mistake? (31:38) How do you do that as a parent then?
Erika Forsyth That's complicated. (31:41) I think what what you would want what I would want my children to be are critical thinkers, whether we're talking about, you know, politics or any other, quote, unquote, maybe controversial Yeah. (31:54) Subject, teaching your child to be a critical thinker and consumer of information and processing what matters to them, how do they believe change happens, what is valuable, those types of questions. (32:10) And they might land in a different political area arena. (32:14) They might land in a different, you know, faith.
Erika Forsyth If you are concerned about that, I think the the best thing you could do is yeah. (32:20) The I I kind of land on the the critical thinker piece, but that might feel like an easy answer out. (32:26) I don't know. (32:26) Yeah.
Scott Benner Well, listen. (32:27) What if what if, Erica? (32:29) What if I'm a big dumbass? (32:30) Okay? (32:31) And my kid's right, and I can't see it.
Scott Benner And I'm telling them, no. (32:35) You gotta be a critical thinker and figure this out. (32:37) And they don't come up with the answer that I come up with, then I think they didn't think about it correctly.
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner This is a big problem in parenting as kids get older. (32:47) And I I and you see it the other way too. (32:49) Sometimes the kids will look at the parents. (32:50) They're like, they don't know what they're talking about. (32:51) Just heard a kid the other day, 21 year old kid the other day said, my parents are at the age now where I don't ask them.
Scott Benner I just tell them. (32:59) It was a simple example of, you know, we're gonna have lunch on Saturday. (33:03) Come over, pick me up at my dorm room. (33:05) And she's like, I used to ask my mom that, but it turned into, like, oh, I got a plan. (33:09) I don't know.
Scott Benner Blah blah blah. (33:10) But when the person was talking about, what they were trying to say was, like, my parents are getting older now. (33:14) They're wishy washy. (33:16) Like, they're tired. (33:17) They're not as focused.
Scott Benner They don't care as much. (33:19) I just tell them what to do now, and they follow me. (33:21) And I was like, there's something kinda like there was something sad and wonderful about it at the same time. (33:27) You know what I mean? (33:29) Like, I was like, oh, the kid thought, you know, my parents, they struggle a little bit, you know, around this one thing about making plans and going out.
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner I don't give them a choice anymore. (33:39) Just tell them where to be and what time to be there, and we and we get together. (33:42) We do not as
Erika Forsyth And that works.
Scott Benner Not that harshly, by the way. (33:45) Yeah. (33:45) But then in that same situation, what do you do if your mom's out there? (33:49) Like, you gotta vote for this person or you have to pray this way or you have to do this or you can't do that or don't say this because something's gonna happen to you. (33:57) I don't know.
Scott Benner Like, I guess I bring it up because I hear a lot of people talk about, like, it's okay to, like you can't pick your family, so it's okay to disconnect from your parents. (34:08) But that seems like the wrong thing to me. (34:10) And I'm sure for some people, it's the right thing. (34:12) And I've seen people do it, and it seems to make them happier sometimes. (34:16) But I've seen people do it, it seems to make them feel alone too.
Scott Benner And, again, I I would just roll back to thinking, if that ends up being my situation as an older person, I'm gonna try very hard to think of it as my fault. (34:30) That there was something I could have done at a formidable moment or pivotal time that would have been one of these things, allowing my kids to feel safe, to belong, and to, you know, accept them for who they are, like, that kind of thing. (34:43) So, anyway, I don't think there's really an answer in here. (34:45) I'm just talking. (34:46) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth Such a complex topic, but a good one.
Scott Benner Happens a lot, I imagine. (34:52) You talk to a lot of people who have this kind
Erika Forsyth of disconnect. (34:55) And I think that dilemma of choosing feeling like you have to make that choice of differentiating and from your family or, you know, it's kind of like you're discussing cut off completely.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth What is the healthier option? (35:13) And there's no that's Yeah. (35:15) I don't know say different scenarios that it's not an easy answer, but I think that the conversation and the thought around separation, differentiation, and complete cutoff is one that does happen a lot, and it's it's not easy whatever you decide.
Scott Benner Well, I bring it up because at some point, if you're raising a child with type one or any medical issue, really, that they have to manage on their own, at some point or another, it's going to become evident that that child is probably not going to do it exactly the way you did it. (35:52) And if you see that as they're not trying hard enough or they're not doing enough or they don't care about their health, that's, I think, the wrong reaction to have. (36:01) I think it's sad to say, like, people are who they are. (36:04) Right? (36:04) You give these people, you know, pull a thousand people out, give them all diabetes.
Scott Benner They have personalities. (36:10) They have the way they think about things. (36:12) They're gonna think about their diabetes that way as well. (36:14) Like, I I use Jenny as an example all the time. (36:17) Like, Jenny's not a person who decided to have an a one c in the fives.
Scott Benner Jenny's personality and who she is leads her to that. (36:25) Like, she might not even think about it that way if you asked her about it. (36:27) She might think, oh, I make decisions because I wanna be this. (36:30) Like, I would say the same thing about somebody who gets up every day and runs or goes to the gym five times a week. (36:35) They think they're making some I think they think they're making a purposeful decision.
Scott Benner I just think that's how they're wired, and that's why it works that way. (36:43) I don't believe that there are people out there who are not trying or don't care about their health. (36:47) I just think that things occur to people the way they occur to them. (36:50) And one day, your kid's diabetes is going to occur to them the way it occurs to them. (36:54) And I think it's important not to fall into a trap of, like, of that diabetes turning into politics or religion or something like that where you look at it and go, they're not doing the right thing.
Scott Benner So, you know, I disagree with them, and they don't agree with me, so we have a rift now. (37:09) Like, it's just the saddest thing, Erica, to watch people raise little kids and to see all that, like, hope and love and joy all pulled together. (37:18) And then you stay alive for ten more years and you meet them again when they're 24 and you say, hey. (37:22) How's your mom? (37:23) I don't know.
Scott Benner I haven't talked her in a couple years. (37:25) Like, where's all that at? (37:26) Like, where was all the, oh, it's so cute. (37:29) It does that. (37:29) I think we get taller and not as cute and and then we can't just let everything go.
Resilience and Coping Skills
Scott Benner To me, my answer is none of that matters. (37:38) Like, I just think the personal stuff matters, but I think the rest of it is just extra. (37:42) I'm sorry. (37:43) I've taken this way off course. (37:44) Are we up to resilience and coping skills?
Erika Forsyth Yes. (37:48) Okay. (37:49) Oh gosh. (37:50) Okay. (37:51) And by the way, I found and slightly remembered the parenting Oh.
Erika Forsyth That you said soft serve soft parenting. (37:58) It it's gentle parenting.
Scott Benner It's called gentle parenting? (38:01) Yeah. (38:01) Which we might have you might have
Erika Forsyth even said that word. (38:03) But
Scott Benner I don't think my dad knew about that.
Erika Forsyth Gentle parenting is which, again, we, we talked about before. (38:09) I think the the trick or the dilemma with that is it often leads to, you know, parents feeling, like, full of guilt and shame because we can't be we can't be gentle.
Scott Benner All the time?
Erika Forsyth All the time. (38:22) Yeah. (38:22) Yeah.
Scott Benner Well, give me resilience and
Erika Forsyth coping skills. (38:25) Okay. (38:25) Resilience and coping. (38:27) So you have learned healthy ways to handle stress. (38:31) So we is that it's a tough one because do you learn by observation of others around you?
Erika Forsyth Maybe, but also through your life. (38:42) You've learned, okay. (38:43) This this hard thing happened kind of going back to the blade of grass. (38:47) I mean, the blade of grass, I love, like, yeah, reaching for the sun. (38:51) So you have the mindset that even though when hard things happen, I'm gonna be okay.
Erika Forsyth And it might be because of all these other things that are going on in your life. (39:02) Mhmm. (39:02) It might be that you are wired that way. (39:05) Like, resilience is is such a interesting subject because it is both and. (39:11) It is some people are wired that way, and some people have learned.
Erika Forsyth Some people have been intentional and have figured out ways to have that mindset. (39:20) Like, even when when hard things happen, life's gonna be okay. (39:24) I'm gonna be okay. (39:25) Yeah. (39:26) I'm not helpless.
Scott Benner I I don't know how to it's it probably in just an eternal question about human beings. (39:32) Right? (39:32) Like, I I I do take your point. (39:34) I think it both makes sense to me, honestly. (39:37) Like, it's not just it's not just I'm maybe wired that way, and that's the only reason.
Scott Benner I also maybe I've been through through some things that, you know, lead me in that direction. (39:48) I was actually just thinking this morning because I'm trying to get Kelly to move somewhere warmer.
Erika Forsyth I've heard that.
Scott Benner The idea of uprooting our life, like, like, I know it scares her and it fills her full of, like, lists of things that would be done. (40:00) I have to tell you, like, I know all that stuff would be difficult and unpleasant. (40:04) I don't care. (40:05) Like, if she if she walked in here right now and said, we're moving, I'd be like, right on. (40:08) Let's make it happen.
Scott Benner And then I would just do it. (40:11) But I but I realized it's just probably because I grew up without a lot of parental direction, and I had to take care of myself, and I had take care of my brothers. (40:20) And a lot of stuff was put in front of me, and there really was no like, there was no one to give it to. (40:26) So it was like it was sink or swim most of the time. (40:29) And I've just been through enough experiences that I I really don't I it's hard for me to imagine something that wouldn't if it didn't turn my light out that I couldn't get through.
Scott Benner So, yeah, I mean, if you wanted me to pack the whole house up and get us out of here, I'd figure out a way to get it done. (40:44) I wouldn't love it. (40:44) I'm I'm lazy at my core. (40:46) Erica, I just want you to know. (40:48) There's a lazy person inside of me dying to be lazy.
Scott Benner I can't wait to I can't wait to retire so that I can Yeah. (40:54) Show the world to that person.
Erika Forsyth And then you'd you'd be bored.
Scott Benner Yeah. (40:57) Yeah. (40:58) Oh, probably. (40:58) But I can't, like like, day to day, I can't do that. (41:02) Like, I don't know like, I'm not good at that at all.
Scott Benner Like, I don't come off that way, you wouldn't think that about me. (41:08) But I work on the weekends and, like, late at night, I'm still working and, like, I don't I'm not good at stopping. (41:15) Exactly. (41:15) Until there's a human element. (41:17) Like, this afternoon, the middle of the day here's a good example.
Scott Benner I think this is a good example for all this. (41:23) Arden made an announcement last night that she has a 137 out of a 100 in her class that she has tomorrow, and I'm not going to school tomorrow, she says. (41:32) I have a 137. (41:33) I can miss a day. (41:34) It sounded flippant at first, but then she went through all the things that were gonna happen in class tomorrow.
Scott Benner She's like, I'm not involved in that. (41:40) I'm not involved in this. (41:41) I can do this on my own. (41:43) I have a I I can I can take the hit on the on the attendance? (41:47) I'm gonna stay home tomorrow and bake.
Scott Benner So she's been baking all day. (41:51) She made cakes and cookies, and she's going to a party tonight with her friends, and she's just gonna take a bunch of baked goods and spread them out. (41:58) Right? (41:59) And so I got up this morning. (42:01) I took my shower.
Scott Benner I got my stuff going. (42:03) I recorded with Jenny this morning, and then I had a couple of hours till I had to record with you. (42:09) I have a thousand things to do. (42:11) Like, I'm not kidding. (42:12) But I walked downstairs to get myself something to eat, and Artem was baking, and I just started helping her bake.
Scott Benner And we just did it together for a couple of hours. (42:20) I lined the pans and greased the stuff and flipped the things over and touched the hot stuff and did all the stuff she didn't wanna do. (42:27) You know what I mean? (42:27) But we were doing it together. (42:29) My son came down for his lunch break.
Scott Benner He hung out with us. (42:32) We chatted and talked and blah blah blah. (42:34) My wife kinda took off one headphone while she was working and involved herself in the conversation. (42:39) And then around, like, you know, about fifteen minutes before you and I had to get together, I said, I I gotta go now. (42:45) Like, you know, and I said to I said to Arden, I was like, you're still down here, like, when when I'm done, I'll I'll help you clean the dishes up.
Scott Benner Like, I don't wanna clean the dishes up, Erica. (42:53) I'm not even gonna eat any of that stuff. (42:55) She's gonna give feed it to that boy. (42:56) Like, do you know what I mean? (42:57) And, like but, like, it was such an it was such a nice time to be around each other, no pressure, being supportive, quite even the physical touch thing, it occurred to me when we were down there.
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner As we walked back and forth, like, she hit me in the side once and I heard her go, and she just hit me in the side. (43:18) Uh-huh. (43:18) And it's just like a it's it is just like you say, it's a brief second. (43:21) Like, it it's meaningless almost until it's not. (43:23) And then you think, like, this is awesome.
Scott Benner I don't know. (43:26) Don't I know what I'm saying.
Erika Forsyth What an ideal, like, afternoon. (43:28) I'm like, gosh, that sounds that sounds lovely.
Scott Benner I mean, you know, working from home, you can, like, you can move the hours around. (43:35) But also, she'll go to that party tonight, and I'm gonna sit around and work on stuff all evening. (43:41) So I'm lucky that I get to shift my day around a little bit. (43:44) Like, everybody can't, like, in the middle of the day just be like, oh, I'm gonna bake for two hours. (43:47) And that's not a thing I normally do either.
Erika Forsyth But Right.
Scott Benner Today's one of those days where it actually came up when we're recording. (43:53) And I think your point earlier was that doesn't have to happen all the time. (43:57) But I also realized that when I did it, she wasn't stunned that I stopped working and did it with her. (44:04) It's that steadiness you talked about earlier. (44:06) That's a thing she would expect from me on some level.
Scott Benner And then it happens, and then there's this comfort that comes over her that this thing that she expects happens, and then that creates confidence. (44:18) There's all these little ways to, like, enrich people anyway.
Erika Forsyth Well and even just the belonging in that the kitchen, there's a safety and sense of, okay. (44:29) What this is we we all belong here together, and we're doing this joint activity together. (44:34) I mean, it is it's it's a cool, beautiful example.
Scott Benner You're all missing out if you're not cooking together sometimes. (44:43) Mhmm. (44:43) It is an it's it is like it's a team effort and, you know, you you rise and fall together. (44:48) Sometimes the food comes out crappy and you just eat it anyway and you laugh about it. (44:51) You know, it didn't work.
Scott Benner And, you know, and sometimes it comes out awesome. (44:54) You get to celebrate with each other and then, you know, even the cleaning up can be fun. (44:59) I think there are a lot of little I don't wanna turn into, like, one of these, like, bro podcast guys, but, like, there's a lot of things that society has shifted on over the years, and we're losing out on some of them. (45:09) And I think I think cooking and eating together is one of them. (45:12) So Mhmm.
Scott Benner Anyway, you know.
Erika Forsyth Well, you're you're gonna make me and probably a lot of listeners, we're gonna go cook some bake some
Scott Benner cupcakes She made these she made these tarts. (45:22) She took the the berries and she, like, I don't know, put them with sugar and, like, don't She had to, like, brought them to a boil or something to turn them into filling, and then they went inside these cookies. (45:32) And she's like, try one. (45:33) It tasted like a Pop Tart.
Erika Forsyth Wow. (45:35) I know it feels that sounds sophisticated.
Scott Benner That's awesome. (45:38) I was like I was like, this is really good. (45:41) What are we up to? (45:41) Knowledge? (45:42) Okay.
Scott Benner Did we get some resilience? (45:44) Okay. (45:44) Alright. (45:45) We're starting to go over on your time. (45:46) I'm sorry.
Erika Forsyth No. (45:47) No. (45:47) We're good.
Scott Benner We're good? (45:48) Okay.
Erika Forsyth Number six, knowledge and opportunity. (45:52) So you have access to learning, and you're also encouraged to continue to explore. (46:00) And I think that can look like a lot of different things. (46:03) I mean, even just with the example of of baking, there's that opportunity to, like, let's try something. (46:08) It might totally fail.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth But not even using that word. (46:11) Like, it might not turn out the way we want, but that's okay. (46:14) And not experiencing, you know, shame or any kind of negative feedback when you do make a mistake. (46:21) I know that I'm thinking as we're talking about this, you know, we're coming recording post Olympics with Alyssa Liu, and her narrative of resilience is one of it's okay if I fall. (46:36) You know, people are curious.
Erika Forsyth Do you have you been following her in figure skating?
Scott Benner I don't know about the Olympics. (46:42) I'm sorry.
Erika Forsyth But Okay.
Scott Benner But go ahead.
Erika Forsyth So sorry. (46:45) Okay. (46:46) So Alyssa Liu won the gold medal in
Scott Benner future skating. (46:49) In the afternoon, Eric. (46:50) Yeah. (46:50) Yeah. (46:51) You out white laded me with that one.
Scott Benner Go ahead.
Erika Forsyth Oh my gosh. (46:58) Okay. (46:59) Well, so really so she won the gold medal, and she used to be a figure skater, a very you know, she was really successful as a younger girl. (47:07) I think she retired in her teens.
Scott Benner Okay.
Erika Forsyth 16 and then didn't skate for two years, three years. (47:13) I'm these numbers aren't right. (47:15) But she returned to figure skating and presented with such joy, and she was her kind of narrative is that she's out there. (47:24) She doesn't care about the results or the medals or the judges. (47:27) She's and she if she falls, it's part of her journey.
Erika Forsyth Like, it's part of the performance, and there's not a sense of shame around it. (47:36) And I just thought that's, you know that probably took a lot of work for her to get to that place. (47:40) It's not just like she showed up and was like, who cares about the judges? (47:44) So there's that element that I think is important to hold, but also somewhere along the line, she learned that it's okay to show up and make mistakes, and that's not gonna be
Scott Benner You kinda feel like you have permission not to be perfect and that there's no there's no judgment at the end of it. (48:01) Like, I tried, and it didn't work out, and that's fine. (48:04) Listen. (48:04) I built this whole thing on that. (48:06) I was talking to somebody earlier today who's thinking of starting a a business up, and I was like, you think I had this all worked out when I started this?
Scott Benner I was like, you're out of your mind. (48:15) Like, I just, like, I didn't know what I was doing. (48:17) I had an idea. (48:18) I put some effort into it. (48:19) Taught myself about the first thing.
Scott Benner That went okay. (48:22) Taught myself about the second thing. (48:24) That went okay. (48:25) I said I've made mistakes along the way. (48:27) I've done things that, like, have wasted have been incredible waste of my time.
Scott Benner In the end, you learn something from it anyway. (48:33) And, you know, you just move on and build on it later. (48:35) It's just the whole world's a t shirt slogan if you just let it be, Erica. (48:39) Like, I mean, honestly, like, go back to I don't know. (48:43) Go back to stoicism and read their writings and then turn it into a 2026 t shirt slogan.
Scott Benner It's all the same stuff. (48:50) Like, there's, like, five things you have to do and you can be happy. (48:53) It's not that hard. (48:54) It's hard when other people get involved and your feelings get involved and your paranoia gets involved, then you start thinking, oh, I have to be perfect. (49:01) I can't fall down.
Scott Benner I have to get a 100 on everything. (49:03) I mean, let's go even Arden last night. (49:05) Like, she's explaining to us. (49:07) She has 37 extra points over a 100 because there's part of her who thinks I should be going to class. (49:13) I have to be able to offer up enough reasons.
Scott Benner It's not not to us, to her, for her to be comfortable in doing this. (49:20) And she and she build up enough buffer that she could be downstairs in her pajamas baking and feel comfortable about it. (49:25) I gotta be honest with you. (49:26) Like, I wouldn't want her just not going to school, but she didn't have to have 37 more points. (49:30) She could have, like, she can end with, you know, a different a or a b or something like this.
Scott Benner Not that important. (49:36) Like, you you know what I mean? (49:37) Like, as long I tell my the same thing. (49:39) Both of my kids went to college, and I was like, look. (49:41) College isn't grades.
Scott Benner It's understanding. (49:44) I was like, you're gonna go into the real world. (49:45) If you don't understand the thing you studied, you're gonna be in trouble. (49:49) I was like, so, like, cheating to get a good number, you just have a problem later. (49:53) You're gonna be out in the real world, someone's gonna say something, you're gonna realize, oh my god, I'm a fraud.
Scott Benner I don't understand this. (49:59) And I was like, so, you know, don't it's not about a number to me. (50:02) So you're going to learn something. (50:04) Like, go learn it. (50:05) Once you understand it, stay home and bake on Friday.
Scott Benner What do I care?
Erika Forsyth Mhmm. (50:09) Well and that that kind of narrative builds resilience and removes that pressure around the perfectionism, and then that leads to more confidence in trying new things and and pursuing new goals. (50:23) Right? (50:24) Because then you you know, well, if I don't make it that way, I'm still gonna be okay. (50:29) I'm still safe.
Scott Benner Yeah. (50:30) I'll figure it out. (50:31) Mhmm. (50:31) I want my kids to just feel like, oh, I'll figure it out. (50:34) You know, that's be and I don't know if they'll actually figure it out, Erica.
Scott Benner That's not important. (50:38) The important thing is that they that they feel like they can. (50:41) You know what I mean? (50:41) Like, they might fall in their face. (50:42) I have no idea.
Scott Benner They could be back here three years from now being like, hey. (50:46) Can you please pay for my dental appointment? (50:48) I can't afford it. (50:48) I was like, I I don't know where they'll be, but at least they at least they're not running around scared. (50:54) Like, I'd much rather see my kids running forward failing than standing still and cowering.
Body Health, Safety, and Community
Scott Benner You know? (50:59) Mhmm. (50:59) So alright. (51:00) Where are we at? (51:01) I'm sorry.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (51:03) So number seven, body health and safety. (51:07) So having access to healthy, nutritious food, clean water, health care, you're living in a physically safe environment. (51:18) I like the this last one, you've you've learned to rest.
Scott Benner To
Erika Forsyth rest? (51:22) Right? (51:22) Like, to that talk about, you know, the body trust concept. (51:26) Right? (51:26) Like, being able to listen to your body and give it what it needs without feeling that sense of of burden or shame.
Erika Forsyth Kind of like what you just talked about. (51:34) Again, going back to the baking analogy
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth You were able to say, oh, I can do this now and I can shift work later, and there's not that sense of guilt.
Scott Benner You didn't read it right out, but you've learned to rest, move, and care for your body without guilt. (51:45) I think that's important. (51:46) Yeah. (51:47) And I I'll tell you too. (51:48) I I bring this up all the time, but I have a what I consider to be a flexible rotating to do list in my head.
Scott Benner Like, the thing that's number one right now, something could happen five minutes right now to make that number five for me, and I let it slide down without any compunction at all. (52:06) Like, okay. (52:06) That's not as important anymore. (52:07) It'll slide it because if I keep saying, well, this is number one. (52:10) Now there's a new number one, and now there's a third number one.
Scott Benner I'm not built to handle three dire things happening at the same time. (52:17) I can't do that. (52:18) So something's not as dire. (52:19) It slides down the list and, you know, I I tell my wife all the time, my wife's got one of those jobs where there's always a thousand things to do and they're never gonna get finished. (52:28) And she's like, I gotta get this done.
Scott Benner I said, you've been doing this since I said, since you were out of college. (52:32) I said, we're in our fifties. (52:34) You've never caught up once. (52:36) I've never heard you, like like, emerge from a room and go, I've done it. (52:40) There's nothing left to do.
Scott Benner I've I've caught up. (52:43) I was like, it's never happened once in your life. (52:44) I'm like, just accept that that's gonna be the like, stop feeling like you're chasing perfection and start realizing that this is the game. (52:52) The game is there's always something to do. (52:56) The trick is not feeling like you're gonna get it all done.
Scott Benner And trust me, you all will
Erika Forsyth listen mindset shift.
Scott Benner No. (53:02) Alright. (53:02) Listen. (53:02) Most of the people listening will listen to me about that before that lady will. (53:06) I was like, you know, she's punishing me for loving her and dedicating my life to her and stuff like that.
Scott Benner But, like, she ain't gonna listen to me, but some of you might. (53:13) I'm helping you because she won't listen. (53:15) But, like, she she can't do that. (53:16) Like, it's not in her nature. (53:18) Like, she'll die.
Erika Forsyth It's hard.
Scott Benner 100%, she's dying in that chair. (53:21) 100%, we're gonna push her into the ambulance right from the chair she works. (53:26) Oh my gosh. (53:27) And with her last breath, she'll say, it was worth it. (53:30) Like and I I really think that, by the way.
Scott Benner She loves what she does, and she's she's one of those people. (53:36) Like, she's task oriented. (53:38) She if you stopped she thinks she's gonna retire. (53:41) That's insane. (53:43) That that lady ain't retiring.
Scott Benner And unless I'm wrong, and then I'd be happily wrong. (53:47) I'd love to watch her sit in a chair for ten years and go for a walk. (53:51) I think that's what I'm working towards is getting her to that spot. (53:54) My fear is I'll get her to that spot and she'll be like, I'm just gonna consult on the side. (53:58) Yeah.
Scott Benner And I'd be like, yeah. (53:59) I'm we'll go for a walk by myself. (54:01) Last thing, community and justice. (54:04) You live in a space where people are treated fairly. (54:08) Help is available when you need it.
Scott Benner You feel valued by your community and society at large. (54:14) We're not always in charge of that about, like, financially where we can live or, you know, what part of the world is safe or whatnot. (54:21) But if you have that, it's definitely a bonus for you. (54:24) And if you it's within your grasp to move towards it, you should know I think it's important for you. (54:29) So.
Outro & Final Sponsor Messages
Scott Benner Erica, I really appreciate you doing this with me. (54:33) I appreciate you letting me text you some random sentence that says, hey. (54:37) There's aces. (54:38) There must be something opposite, and and us turning it into four hours worth of conversation.
Erika Forsyth Well and, yes, lo and behold, it it's there.
Scott Benner You really should respond to me and say, please leave me alone. (54:48) That's what I lose my number or come up with a more fully fleshed out idea. (54:54) Would you, please?
Erika Forsyth No. (54:57) It's it's good. (54:58) I'm glad. (54:58) Brain works.
Scott Benner Yeah. (54:59) Well, let me thank you for doing this again and and tell you how much I appreciate you and your time and and and remind people that Erica's got bills too. (55:08) So erica foresythe dot com, if you're looking for an awesome therapist who specializes in helping people with type one diabetes. (55:17) She can't help you in every state, but if you live in California or if you live in go, Erica.
Erika Forsyth Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Florida.
Scott Benner And she can help you virtually.
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Scott Benner Are we adding more? (55:29) You. (55:30) Or did the government put the kibosh for that?
Erika Forsyth There's a there's a potential of one of Washington, but that's still that's not close. (55:37) It's still in the works.
Scott Benner Columbia or a state?
Erika Forsyth A state.
Scott Benner State. (55:42) Alright. (55:42) Well, listen. (55:43) If you live in a hippie state, Erica can probably help you. (55:45) Ericaforesight.com is what I just heard, or Florida, which is just a different kind of hippie state.
Scott Benner Alright. (55:50) Talk to you later.
Erika Forsyth Thank you. (55:51) Thanks, Scott.
Scott Benner This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod five. (56:06) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free what I just say? (56:13) A free Omnipod five starter kit. (56:16) Free? (56:17) Get out of here.
Scott Benner Go click on that link. (56:19) Omnipod.com/juicebox. (56:21) Check it out. (56:22) Terms and conditions apply. (56:24) Eligibility may vary.
Scott Benner Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (56:30) Links in the show notes. (56:31) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com. (56:37) A huge thank you to Cozy Earth, a longtime sponsor. (56:41) Cozyearth.com.
Scott Benner Use the offer code juice box at checkout. (56:46) You will save 20% off of your entire order when you use that code. (56:51) Don't let me down kids. (56:52) Head over there now. (56:53) Get yourself some joggers, some towels, some sheets.
Scott Benner Save yourself some money. (56:57) Support the podcast. (56:58) Make your life beautiful and comfortable all at the same time. (57:01) Cozyearth.com. (57:02) Use the offer code juice box at checkout.
Scott Benner Dexcom sponsored this episode of the juice box podcast. (57:11) Learn more about the Dexcom g seven at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox. (57:21) Hey. (57:21) Thanks for listening all the way to the end. (57:23) I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership.
Scott Benner Thank you so much for listening. (57:27) I'll be back very soon with another episode of the juice box podcast. (57:38) My diabetes pro tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward practical insights that truly make a difference. (57:47) This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin, dosing adjustments, or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. (57:57) I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over thirty five years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple actionable tips.
Scott Benner The diabetes pro tip series runs between episode one thousand and one thousand twenty five in your podcast player, or you can listen to it at juiceboxpodcast.com by going up into the menu. (58:18) Have a podcast? (58:19) Want it to sound fantastic? (58:20) Wrongwayrecording.com.
#1845 Live Tech Support
Scott helps Danette, an overwhelmed mother managing her daughter's type 1 diabetes. He advises going back to basics, resetting basal insulin , and prioritizing sleep to combat burnout.
Companies that Support Juicebox
Key Takeaways
- When diabetes management feels overwhelming and chaotic, go back to the absolute basics by simplifying your approach and focusing first on foundational settings rather than complex variables.
- Accurate basal insulin is critical; if basal rates are incorrectly set (often too low), meal boluses and correction factors will struggle to work effectively, leading to unpredictable blood sugars.
- Taking a "pump break" and returning to Multiple Daily Injections (MDI) can be a valuable tool to reset expectations and isolate basal needs without algorithmic interference.
- Caregiver burnout and a lack of sleep drastically impact your ability to make clear, rational decisions regarding diabetes management, often leading to over-correcting or over-worrying.
- Avoid "chasing ghosts"—such as constantly blaming bad insulin or cannula issues—before confirming that your basic insulin-to-carb ratios and basal rates are properly dialed in.
Resources Mentioned
Introduction & Support Resources
Scott Benner Here we are back together again, friends, for another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Danette My name is Danette, and I'm from the Midwest.
Scott Benner Hey. Do you need support? I have some stuff for you. It's all free. Juiceboxpodcast.com. Click on support in the menu. Let's see what you get there. A one c and blood glucose calculator. People love that. That's actually, I think, the most popular page on the website some months. A list of great endocrinologists from listeners. That's from all over the country. There's a link to the private Facebook group, to the Circle community, and we have a a fantastic thing there, American Sign Language. There's a great sign language interpreter who did the entire bold beginning series in ASL. So if you know anybody who would benefit from that, please send them that way. Just go to juiceboxpodcast.com and click on support. While you're there, check out the guides, like the pre bolusing guide, fat and protein insulin calculator, oh gosh, thyroid, GLP, caregiver burnout. You should go to the website. Click around a little bit on those menus. It really there's a lot more there than you think. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.
Scott Benner The show you're about to listen to is sponsored by the Eversense three sixty five. The Eversense three sixty five has exceptional accuracy over one year and is the most accurate CGM in the low range that you can get. Eversensecgm.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner Today's episode is also sponsored by the Tandem Mobi system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. Tandem Mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. The podcast is also sponsored today by US Med. Usmed.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner You can get your diabetes supplies from the same place that we do. And I'm talking Dexcom, Libre, Omnipod, Tandem, and so much more. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514.
Danette's Daughter's Diagnosis Story
Danette My name is Danette, and I'm from the Midwest.
Scott Benner Danette, that was awesome. Thank you. Some people struggle to introduce themselves. Danette, you have diabetes? You have a child with type one?
Danette I have a child. My daughter, she's seven and a half. She was diagnosed five years ago on 02/01/2021, and I am also the mother to a son who's 10. They're almost three years apart to the day.
Scott Benner Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Do you have any type one or other autoimmune in your family or any reason to think that maybe you'd have a child with diabetes one day?
Danette No. The doctor said, quote, it has to start somewhere.
Scott Benner What an upbeat thought.
Danette I've got type two on my side of the family. My husband has some type two on his, but no type one that we know of. No other autoimmune that we can think of.
Scott Benner Really? No celiac or thyroid or anything like that floating around?
Danette No. Not at all.
Scott Benner I find a lot of people have thyroid and don't tell anybody about it. It's an interesting thing too. Does your family talk about health? Was it a thing you feel like you would know about if it existed?
Danette Yes and no. I think we hear about health problems after the fact. Like, seventeen years ago, my mom had a very massive heart attack, and it was kinda like brought all the family together. But up until that point, didn't really talk about health. It was like, yeah, my type two is bad. My health was bad. I didn't take my medication. Oops. I had a heart attack, that kind of thing. But nothing really at the forefront, like preventative, keeping on top of things. I think now that, you know, our parents or grandparents, they wanna be around, and so now it's more of a focus. But back then, it wasn't really.
Scott Benner Oops. I had a heart attack would be a great episode, Nave, if you would have just said it a little later in the episode. So okay. I'm just gonna ask a little further. Just like vitiligo, psoriasis, anything even, like, inflammation related, like, just terrible seasonal allergies or anything like that?
Danette Nope.
Scott Benner How about that? Okay. Did she have a virus previous to the diagnosis? I mean, she's two and a half. Right?
Danette You know, not that I could think of. You know, I kinda look back at the pictures and you see, like, wow. You could really tell that she was getting sick.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette Compared to my son, she was always kind of a chunker. So it was like she was starting to lean out. We thought, oh, she's going through a growth spurt. You know, that's just normal. Oh, she's wetting through her diapers because we have a bad batch of diapers, and so we were getting the overnights and that kind of thing. And then it just got progressively worse. I don't think she was sick before. Nothing that we could pinpoint. I mean, it was during COVID. We avoided that. They were still in daycare. Didn't really get sick.
Scott Benner No hand, foot, mouth?
Danette No. No. She actually got hand, foot, and mouth after she had diabetes. Oh. We had a little stint in the hospital for an overnight because of ketones and things like that. And when I was changing her diaper, I noticed the rash on her bottom. And then she was saying that her applesauce tasted spicy. And so when I looked at her tongue, like, she had the dots on it, but that was after her diagnosis.
Scott Benner Spicy applesauce. Yeah. I don't think that would be good. Maybe it would be. I don't know. I don't wanna think about it right now because I'm hungry. I haven't eaten yet today. I was like, oh, applesauce. I'm like a child. I love applesauce. My goodness. Okay. So she's diagnosed. You notice her leaning out. You go to, like, a family clinician. Do you end up at a hospital? What's the process of figuring it out and getting moving?
Danette So how we figured it out was both of my children were cursed early on with they just stopped napping around, like, 18, two years old. And so she'd been really lethargic. She was drinking a lot of water, but we didn't really put two and two together. And I had gone away on a day trip with some friends, and my husband had reported that my daughter was very cranky and lethargic, like, just not feeling herself. And he chalked that up to I was gone all day. Mom wasn't home. So this was on a Saturday. On Sunday, she took, like, two or three naps, which was unusual. And she was very clingy. She was eating fine. But then on Monday, I was working from home at the time, she just didn't seem right. She looked flushed. She'd gone down for multiple naps, and I told my husband, I said, if she's not feeling better by tomorrow, I'm gonna take her to our family GP. And so I went up to change her diaper, and when I laid her on the changing table, her eyes kind of rolled back in the back of her head like she was gonna just, like, pass out. And so I told him, I said, I think I should probably take her to an ER. So there's one pretty close by our house, and we took her there. And she was very disengaged. She wasn't looking around. She wasn't excited to be in the car. And so when we checked in, you know, the nurses are giving her the bracelet and getting my questionnaire completed, and she just looked very distant. And so I still had no idea what was wrong with her. But then when we got back to the room, the doctor comes in and says, well, we're gonna do some blood work, and we're gonna do urinalysis, but I'm pretty sure she has diabetes.
Scott Benner Now he knew by looking at her, or do we smell her breath maybe?
Danette I don't recall the ketone smell. I don't recall any, like, Kussmaul respirations. She was just so lethargic, and I don't know. He just knew.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette And that was just kind of, like, a blow. I had no idea, like, how he could have guessed it, but he's like, we see this all the time. We're just gonna get you admitted, and you'll probably be in the hospital a couple days, we'll go from there.
Scott Benner Wow.
Danette So he seemed to know right away.
Scott Benner Yeah. Prior to him saying that, you just thought, what, she's sick? She had a cold or the flu? Or
Danette No idea. She had never really been sick before. Not like that.
Scott Benner But she was your second. Right? So you had one already?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yes. So you'd even been through a little bit of that. You not even nervous at the hospital? Were you just more confused?
Danette It was, like, really confused. Like, how could this be happening? You know, she's so little. It was just kinda out of the blue, like, not even on the radar.
Scott Benner I hear you. Okay. Is it more of a shock to you or your husband? Who do you think took it harder? Do you think somebody handled it better than anybody else?
Danette I think we were both kinda taken aback by it. I think early on, my husband was just like, we gotta get through this, and he kind of compartmentalized it and never really kinda dealt with the fact that she had diabetes. It was like in the middle of COVID and all this crazy stuff. Right? Mhmm. Until he'll even admit, like, he had never really processed the fact that she had diabetes, so I could think it hits him harder sometimes thinking about it. But, yeah, it was just completely off the radar.
Scott Benner During COVID, meaning, like, during lockdown portion of it?
Danette So we were about a year in because we locked down in, what, February or March 2020, and then she got diagnosed in 2021.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette So we were still working from home. So I guess in that regard, like, our companies hadn't really
Scott Benner We were in the part of COVID where we were all like, I guess we'll just live in our houses for the rest of our lives. Yeah.
Danette Yeah. Pretty much.
Scott Benner Right. Right. I gotcha. Alright. So that part.
Early Struggles and the Value of a CGM
Scott Benner What did they start you off with? Technology? Was it harder to get educated? You know, what did that extra layer of separation create? Do you think it ended up being good or bad in the long run?
Danette Hard to say. I it was just a complete shock. You know, they told us if you count your carbs and you just give insulin, it's gonna be fine. Right? And so I'm like, oh, this is, the best disease to have because I can count. Right? Perfect. Been a nightmare since then. But, yeah, we left with Lantus and Chemalog with syringes. I think we were on a the quick pen.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette Left with a ton of lancets and finger sticks and things like that. I was, like, such in a daze. I didn't even really understand the benefit of having a CGM, so I was against her having something on her body, which at this point, I think that we should have done that from day one. Uh-huh. You know? But there was no one telling me, well, this is why you need it. This is why it's important. So from the very get go, was kinda like sink or swim, figure it out yourself, which is a very difficult position to be in.
Scott Benner Yeah. I have to tell you, I'm still laughing at your assertion that while I can count, this is gonna be a breeze. Like, that really still has me amused.
Danette Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner Oh, diabetes about counting. I got ten fingers. I got ten toes. I know my gazinthus. This is gonna be no problem at all. And then immediately didn't pan out that way.
Danette Oh, no.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Still hasn't, I imagine. Yeah. What an interesting, like, first reaction. I love that. I don't know why that just that tickled me. I'm sure it didn't tickle you when you realized that none of that worked out. But so why didn't you want the CGM initially?
Danette I think it was just hard to see what I I don't know. Like, they just came in. They handed me a pamphlet. They said, take a look at this. We can give you a sample, and then they basically walked out. No one said, this is the value. You won't have to do these finger sticks. You'll have data at your fingertips. So that along with the packet of, like, you know, we could apply for some kind of financial aid to begin with because she was diagnosed to get some of the hospital covered, and it was just so much information at once
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette That there was no one there to say, this is why you need this. This is why it's important.
Scott Benner Do you think that if it would have gotten presented to you differently, you would have had the bandwidth to even think about it or is no way to know?
Danette Oh, I probably would have. I think so.
Scott Benner Okay. Well, then how did you find out about it eventually? How did you eventually bump into the idea that, oh, that thing they mentioned, I should look at that again?
Danette So my sister-in-law, not by blood, she has a lot of people in her family of type one. And she was like, Dee, you gotta get this CGM. Like, this is gonna be very helpful. So having someone in my family say, this is why it's important. And then we didn't have a CGM, I'm gonna say for about two months. Mhmm. And then we were still doing finger sticks randomly before meals and things like that. And one day, we were about to have dinner, and my daughter just looked very tired, like, uncharacteristic. And I did a finger stick, and she was, like, 40. Mhmm. And I was like, okay. We need data. We need to know when this is gonna happen because we're just getting those snapshots. It's not really giving us the big picture.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette I think that was the point where I kinda realized the utility of why we needed it.
Scott Benner Okay. Well, I'm a big fan. So I Yeah. Yeah. I think if you're using insulin, you should be wearing one if it is all possible. Did you do diabetes long enough without one to feel the benefit, or was it really just that one time situation that made you think, oh, this is scary. I don't wanna do this again. I'm gonna grab the thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, if somebody asked you to explain to them what's it like to manage without it versus what's it like to manage with it, do you think you have experience without it to talk about it?
Danette No. I think at that point, we were still kinda in a daze. Right? We didn't know what was going on between meals, finger sticks in the middle of the night, high all the time, low sometimes. I went back through some of our information. I was looking at, you know, those little handwritten sheets they give you in the hospital, like log your dose, log your carbs, log your blood sugar before and after meals. Mhmm. It was just all over the place, and we just didn't know what to do with that information.
Scott Benner So you're just writing these random numbers down, but not having any actionable idea of what to do next now that you saw the numbers. Yeah. Mhmm. I mean, I had an incredibly difficult time trying to make sense of all those random numbers too. You know? The CGM is just a I mean, to say it's a game changer is just not enough. You know? It's not an effusive enough of a description of what it does for you if you're using insulin, and it just opens the whole thing up. How quickly did you I mean, I obviously see the benefit of the CGM pretty quickly, but how quickly after that does it actually translate into better outcomes, or does it not? Does something else need to happen?
Scott Benner Diabetes comes with a lot of things to remember, so it's nice when someone takes something off of your plate. US Med has done that for us. When it's time for Arden's supplies to be refreshed, we get an email. Rolls up and in your inbox says, hi, Arden. This is your friendly reorder email from US Med. You open up the email. It's a big button that says click here to reorder, and you're done. Finally, somebody taking away a responsibility instead of adding one. US Med has done that for us. An email arrives, we click on a link, and the next thing you know, your products are at the front door. That simple. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514.
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Frustrations with Pump Therapy and Outcomes
Danette Outcomes. I think that's why we're talking today. So when I look back at the numbers, right, it was just all over the place. I mean, high blood sugars and, of course, we're new a newly diagnosed family. We don't know what to expect. Our endocrinologist is saying, oh, you're doing fine. This is great. You know, better high than low, that kind of thing. Mhmm. The outcomes weren't where we I wouldn't say where we expected because we had no expectation. Right? So it's, oh, just dose her after her meals. And when I had expressed concern that the blood sugars were very high, then the endocrinologist says, well, dose before, but, you know, part of the risk of that is if she doesn't eat, then, you know, what are you gonna feed her? So putting fear in our mind right away.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette So it became, like, the what ifs, like, started almost immediately. So I would say that we struggle with the outcomes. We struggled with the feedback that we're getting, the advice that we were getting. Like, Oh, you're doing fine. A1c can be this high. You know, there's really no risk right now to having these terrible blood sugars. And when I'm not happy with them, you're touching the pump too much. You want to control this disease too much, and it's not controllable. You know, she's a child, that kind of thing.
Scott Benner Okay. Yeah. So tell people how you and I come together today.
Danette Do you want me to cry an hour later?
Scott Benner No. I mean, whenever you want is fine. But I didn't know you're gonna cry. But no. But Explain how we got here and why we're recording.
Scott Benner Danette, are you there?
Danette I am.
Scott Benner Oh, honey, are you okay? I'm sorry.
Danette No. It's fine.
Scott Benner Take your time.
Danette It's funny. My husband's like, you know, you can't record this at work. You have to come home home for this.
Scott Benner Are you at work crying right now?
Danette I am, but I'm in, like, a maternity room, so no one's gonna come in
Scott Benner here. Okay. So you hear a lady crying in the maternity room, no one's going in. You're completely safe. What's going on?
Danette I'm just really frustrated about the level of care that I'm providing to my daughter.
Scott Benner Okay. Alright.
Danette You know, I feel like I am a right brain person. We were kinda hesitant about a pump to begin with because it's like she was so little, and just the idea of something on her was hard. But I mentioned before how she had a hand, foot, and mouth, and we went to the doctor, and we were, you know, triage in the ER. And one of the nurses came in, and, like, she told me that we really needed to get on a pump and that she was a type one diabetic. And she says, I'm a nurse. I have three children. I have a great life. I have a strenuous job, and my diabetes doesn't prevent me from doing anything.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette And so that kind of set me up on our pump journey, and I feel like everything we've tried, we've never gotten good outcomes.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette We struggle with and when I say terrible time and range, I'm talking, like, 50%, you know, blood sugars averaging in the high one eighties. And children's hospital, they just say, oh, you're doing great. You know? You need to focus on your sleep. You need to be present for your child. And it's hard to do that. And I feel like we've had a lot of, like, insane obstacles that you know, I I listen to the podcast, like, religiously. It's, like, in the background constantly just trying to glean any kind of help. Yeah. And I feel like I know all the steps that we need to do, but they just, for some reason, don't translate.
Scott Benner Okay. So let's first of all, I want people to know that you sent an email, and I have a lot of experience receiving emails from people, and you can kind of see when a return email isn't kind of enough. Does that make sense? Like, was nothing you sent me in that email could I have properly responded to, if that makes any sense. What is it? I said, hey. Do you wanna jump on the podcast and we can just talk it through? Right? Is that how I did that? Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. I have to be honest. I think to do that more often than I actually do it, but I don't know exactly what it was about your note that made me think we should. But
Danette I think it just oozed desperation.
Scott Benner It oozed desperation. So let's go over a couple of things that your health care providers are telling you that is valuable even though it's not it doesn't feel supportive at the moment. Right? But they're not wrong that you gotta get some sleep because it's gonna make you crazy and you're not gonna be able to think. And but to say, don't worry about this a one c. Don't worry about this blood sugar when you're worried about it is not valuable at all. You're not gonna just stop worrying about it. It's impactful to you. I think you're right, by the way, to be concerned about it. I also think that there's a tiny bit of right with them where the world's not gonna blow up if it takes you another month to figure this out or something like that. But you're probably imagining it never gets straight, and it's five years from now and you're still doing this because it's already been five years. Right?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. So I think I understand about where you're at. So let me start slowly. You have a CGM. Is that right?
Danette Yes.
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Danette So we started out on the Omnipod, I think, probably about six or eight months in. Never really had a lot of success with it, but I'm, like, trying to force the fit because, you know, everyone on the podcast is using Omnipod. Everyone in the and I know that's a generalization. A lot of people on the Facebook group are using Omnipod, and then you can tailor the base. Well, you can do all these things. And for a while, for us, it was more of a way to stop doing so many shots. Right?
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette So we did the Omnipod, and it was just a real struggle. And so then when the Omnipod five came out, I was very adamant about wanting to get on that to kind of relieve some of my overnight stressors. And our provider hit or miss. I mean, he was kinda, like, on the verge of retirement, so he had flat out told me that he didn't think pump therapy was a feasible option for a child because, you know, they're too active. They get bumped off. You get the same outcomes as MDI. So no support there.
Scott Benner I'm gonna stop you for second. Where do you live? Not not exactly, but, like, how come everybody's all shucks in you all the time?
Danette Exactly. I don't know.
Scott Benner Okay. Okay.
Danette So I have since changed my attitude. Now I'm a more, you know, you work for me and this is what I want. Mhmm. But now we kinda have I wouldn't say friction when I go. Probably. I mean, they probably can't stand to see me, actually.
Scott Benner I wouldn't say friction, but I think they hate me.
Danette Pretty much. They basically handed me off to a new nurse practitioner because I disagreed so much with the other one that we saw. Like, I flat out told her wholeheartedly, I do not agree with your recommendations. And, yeah, I think they're just used to people maybe having better outcomes and who don't struggle as much, who just, like, go to the appointments and get their a one c and go on, and that's it.
Scott Benner Why do you assume the other people are having better outcomes? Why don't you assume that the other people are having middling outcomes and they're just agreeing with the doctor and not paying attention to it after that?
Danette Could be.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Don't be hard on yourself
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner There. You're making a hell of a leap there that everybody's doing well but you. Mhmm. You know? I would imagine if I had to guess, I'd imagine that everybody's been given, like, oh, you're doing great. Get some sleep. You know, that kind of, like, homespun wisdom thing. And they're all just going, okay. Well, then she said I'm doing good. So I'm good, and then I'm not gonna think about it anymore.
Danette I think
Scott Benner you're Mhmm. You're maybe in that situation where you're the only one making sense, and you're being left to feel like you're the crazy one.
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's probably making you crazy. So we're gonna Yeah. Try to avoid that. Okay. So I'm sorry. So you have Omnipod five right now?
Danette So we were on the Omnipod five. We did that for about, let's say, a year. I can't remember. It was a while. And it was just not working out. Like, we couldn't get the settings right. My daughter was having a lot of lows because it would kick out too much insulin in auto mode. So then we were having to do manual during the day, auto at night, making all these adjustments, and she started to get really bad reactions to the adhesive. I was constantly calling in pods because they would just stop working after twenty four to thirty six hours. My daughter was having a lot of swelling at the sites, pus in the cannula. It was interrupting the insulin delivery and then, you know, leading to the higher blood sugars. So I was very adamant against a tubed pump, but last June, we kinda finally hit our limit. And I was like, you know what? Let's just try the tandem Mobi. It's small, and we'll just deal with it. We were on that for a while, and the outcomes were a little bit better. We were starting to see improvement. Then we started having this weird thing where my daughter was getting a lot of air in her tubing, and no one could figure out why. We got the pump replaced, and she kept having these air bubbles, like, near the pump site. So it wasn't just after a couple days, yes, you get air in the cartridge and that travels its way down. It was like we were constantly flushing the tubing and constantly having air, and no one could figure out why. So we also kind of had a little bit of a butting heads with the nurses at school because they would just dose her, and then she would be three hundred, and they would just continue to dose. And I was like, well, I picked her up early today, and I checked her tubing, and she had air. And they're like, well, there was no air when we checked. I'm like, okay. I'm not saying anything about when you checked it, but when I did, there was air. And so we just got to the point where it's like, okay. At school, we can't control our numbers. We just need to go back to MDI. I guess, start from scratch and try to get the basics down.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette So we've gone through, like, all of the difference not all of them, a lot of different options. Right now, we're trying to explore the twist pump, but it's not covered by my insurance. I found this out yesterday, so we're trying to do an appeal Just because we're losing a lot of freedom with MDI, my daughter, she would send me pictures from the bus. Like, hey. I wanna eat this piece of candy. This is how many carbs it is, and we would walk through the app together about how to dose herself when she was on the Mobi. So we've tried lots of different things, but we've never had steady, stable, predictable numbers.
Analyzing the Numbers: Basal vs. Bolus
Scott Benner My guess is is that either you are doing something, like, egregiously not right and that you're unaware of, or her body is somehow not conducive to the cannula? Is it possible she's allergic to the cannula material? Is it you know what I mean? Like because you're a person who's paying a lot of attention.
Danette Right.
Scott Benner And I hear your frustration, and you're not getting outcomes even close to the amount of effort you're putting in. Is that about how it feels? Yes. Okay. And what's her a one c right now?
Danette It's 6.9.
Scott Benner Okay. And her time in range is about 50%, you're saying? Ish?
Danette Well, yeah, the last week has been hard because so, you know, I am a religious listener, and I hear all the time about how you say, you know, people just look for ghosts. And, like, I see ghosts, like, legitimately.
Scott Benner All the time.
Danette Yeah. Or when you say people like, oh, well, the insulin went bad. It had it couldn't be the insulin. You know? So last week, when we would decide to go MDI to kinda get things under control, we were gonna use spring break as, like, a baseline.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette Well, she gets a near infection, and she gets on antibiotics, and we switch to an insulin pen. And her sugars are completely unmanageable. I mean, like, ridiculous. I'm giving her so much insulin. Now I'm not a fan of big boluses because I feel like I can't trust my own data that I have from any of her systems. But one day, I was like, you know what? We've got glucagon, and if I have to use it, I'm gonna use it. And for one morning on breakfast, I gave her seven units of insulin to cover breakfast and her antibiotic. Her normal dose is about two and a half to three units. That was a big step for me.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette And I'm thinking, okay. We're just gonna do it, and she still went to three 100. And so I'm crying all day. I send you my crazy schizophrenic email, and I said, you know what? I'm just gonna open a vial of insulin and give her a shot with a syringe. And that was the first time in a week that with any predictable forum, we got movement in her blood sugar. I'm like, are you kidding me? Did I legitimately have bad insulin in this pen that I've been using for a week with no relief whatsoever? But, yeah, it just seems weird. Like and then another thing I think about you saying is, like, oh, people aren't brittle diabetics. You just don't know how to use insulin. Like, is she the brittle diabetic? Like, is she the the unicorn Well if you will.
Scott Benner Yeah. So let's reset your expectations a tiny bit for a second, though. A six nine a one c is good.
Danette Okay.
Scott Benner Yeah. Is she getting low a lot?
Danette Okay. So the way I think about it, I'm not really thinking in terms of a one c. Right? Because if you see these graphs, the CGM data that is, like, 300 or two fifty for hours and hours and hours.
Scott Benner Yeah. We don't
Danette want that.
Scott Benner Like Yeah. Right.
Danette Me, it's like, okay. What are her lows? Because, like, my GMI or whatever on the Dexcom is always higher than what her a one c is. So then I try to really not spiral into, well, can I even trust this data? Is she running low all the time? Mhmm. Whatever. You know? So it's just so much information, but to be in range 50% of the time, it's not good. I'm not looking for that five A one c. You know what I mean?
Scott Benner Yeah. I'm not arguing with you. I'm trying to say, like, unless she's incredibly low for long amounts of time, you're not missing by a lot. You're missing somewhere, obviously, if you're seeing two fifties or three hundreds that are lasting for a long time. Let's start slow here. How much does she weigh?
Danette Sixty pounds.
Scott Benner Sixty zero? Six zero?
Danette Six zero.
Scott Benner Okay. And how much insulin does she use a day?
Danette About twenty to twenty five units.
Scott Benner Okay. And that doesn't seem like it's enough?
Danette Sometimes.
Scott Benner I wonder like, what are reasons why she could be insulin resistant? Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, she's a kid. Right? So she's active. She's moving around.
Danette Right. And that's another thing. Like, with the pumps, especially, we were having to have all these different basal rates around her physical activity because when she's active, she is so sensitive to insulin. And so it's just, overall, just extremely difficult to manage because I cannot expect her to sit still after a meal because of insulin. But then once she's high, it seems like it takes a lot to bring it down.
Scott Benner What's her basal at?
Danette So right now on MDI, we're at six and a half units of Tresiba.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette And that seems to be a little on the high side because she's kind of drifting down between meals and overnight. I think it might be a little bit too much.
Scott Benner Okay. So overnight, she's drifting down by getting low or drifting down?
Danette Just difficulty all around. Like, I can never get her to bed at a normal number. Like, she's got sports and things like that, and she's rebound highs, and we're fighting with those. And so then by the time she finally is in range, she needs an applesauce because I was too heavy on the bolus. It's just different because we've been doing MDI for two weeks. Yeah. So it feels like it's all over the place.
Scott Benner I found myself wondering, and this is probably a great place to repeat this. I am not a doctor, and this is definitely not advice. And what I'm wondering is, are you seeing lows mainly after meals or after correction boluses?
Danette I don't even know.
Scott Benner Because I wonder if maybe your basil is not just it could be more aggressive, and then your carb ratio could be less aggressive. Like, what's your carb ratio at?
Danette For breakfast, it's one to nine. Lunch is one to 14. Yeah. It's like one to 14 the rest of the day.
Scott Benner Okay. So, again, I might say a ton of stuff that's wrong, but you sound like you're a little out of your mind over this. So, like, let's just try to, like, kinda spitball here and see what we can kinda figure out. Okay? What I'm wondering is, is there a way to use more basal and less meal insulin to overall affect what's happening? Like, is that possible? Because if she's using twenty five a day, if you were gonna accept the fifty fifty split as, like, a place to start, basil to bolus, then she'd be, like, a half unit an hour or twelve units a day in basil, but you're doing half of that at six.
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Right?
Danette I mean, when we were on the Moby, like, if we had a good day so when I proposed to our care team that I wanted to take a pump break, I looked at all the days that she was in range 75% or more, and then I looked at the split between basal and bolus insulin. And the average bolus or the average basal insulin was, like, 5.75 units.
Scott Benner 5.75. Mhmm. Okay.
Danette I didn't wanna take into consideration those days where she had an air bubble or something and, like, control IQ is cranking out all this extra insulin, and she's getting, like, quote, unquote, twelve units a day when she obviously didn't if she was, like, three hundred all day. On those good days, her basal was as low as four and a half.
Scott Benner Does she have hypothyroidism? No. Have you ever had her TSH checked? Mhmm. Do you know what it was?
Danette I don't recall. She had all that run last year. She's due for it again.
Scott Benner Do you remember it being in range or how they talked about it?
Danette Everything was in range.
Scott Benner Did she have any symptoms of hypothyroidism?
Danette I don't believe so.
Scott Benner No. She's not tired all the time or No. Moody, cranky? Mm-mm.
Danette No? Okay. Great disposition. I mean, she rolls with everything.
Scott Benner Yeah. I'm trying to think of reasons why the insulin might not be working as well or is effectively. Not sure. There's part of me, by the way, that thinks that when we're completely done this conversation, we should immediately make a transcript of it, roll it through a large language model, and then see what it spits back out too. I'm Mhmm. Sort of interested in that because you've been through too much. Like, it seems to me that you've climbed up every tree there is to climb up, and you are probably confusing yourself at this point. You know, God bless her, where she's brittle. You know what I mean? Like, or something that's happening that we're unaware of or something like that. I don't know. Like, it just seems to me one to nine is I mean, when Arden's on a GLP, her carb ratio is one to nine, and she weighs a hundred and twenty five pounds.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner And, you know, is eating probably more aggressively than your little kid is over there. I'm just wondering if you don't have enough basil going, is everything just not working because of that? And that could be overly simplified. I have no idea. Does that make any sense to you, or does that sound crazy to you? I don't know you. Like, I'm just trying to work through what you said to me. So, like, if I said to you, you're using six units of basil right now, try eight tomorrow. Do you think that would, like, ruin things? Like, do you think it would crash her or something like that?
Danette I don't know. So like I said, last week, we just had a hell of a time with the insulin and things like that Yeah. Plus the antibiotic. So it was gonna be our opportunity to kinda reset. What I wanted to do is really dial in her settings, send her back to school with the shots, and be on our way. But because of the illness and the antibiotics and all that stuff, it was just not an ideal week to do that. So now we are trying to do that with her at school, with the activity. The only good thing about that is that she's got, you know, scheduled meals throughout the day, so she's not constantly eating like she was during spring break. But I don0't know. So for example, on Tuesday, she got her snack, and they dosed her for it plus a correction. She went low. So is that because the correction was too much? Is it because the basal was too much? Once I get her stable overnight, she's drifting down. Her line is not flat. So that makes me think that the basal is either too aggressive because she should just be flat. Right?
Scott Benner Yeah. Say it again for me. I'm sorry. Literally, just start over and say it one more time. I was thinking about something and I got lost for a second.
Danette Once I get her number in range Mhmm. Her number doesn't plateau out. She keeps drifting. Down. Down.
Scott Benner How many hours after her last bolus?
Danette Like, more than four or five.
Scott Benner And she drifts to a low spot or a place where you have to stop it?
Danette Yeah. We're treating. So high sixties.
Scott Benner Okay. So try to imagine a world where because right now, you're covering one unit is covering nine carbs. Okay? And she's getting what? Point two five an hour basically or six units a day of basil. And she's getting 25, basil and bolus combined.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner So if you look at a sixty pound person just with a standard basal rate, you're looking at, like, fifteen units a day total daily insulin. But we're saying that's not what she's doing. She's doing 25. I'm using an estimator that's on my website right now. I don't know if you've seen that before or not. So, basically, what I did was I put her weight in at sixty. And on a physiological factor profile of standard, it says her total daily insulin should be about fifteen units a day. Seven and a half total basal and an insulin to carb ratio of one to 33. But that's not her situation. She's using twenty five a day. Now is she using twenty five a day because you're creating lows and feeding her more often than you have to?
Danette I don't think so.
Scott Benner I don't know. But if you don't think so, okay. So I just make her highly resistant on the chart, which then puts her theoretical total daily insulin at, like, 24 and a half, which is matching what you're telling me. When that happens, it's indicating that her basal need should be about 12 a day or point five an hour, but that her carb ratio should be one to 20. So my thought here is is if you meaningfully upped the basal and meaningfully decreased the carb ratio, maybe that's where the balance is. Like, maybe you are as simply as if the basal is not right, nothing else is gonna work. Is it possible that that's the situation and that she's been gaining weight and changing and you've been switching from shots to this pump to that pump so much that you just aren't seeing enough to make a reasonable decision.
Danette Probably.
A Strategy for Resetting and Moving Forward
Scott Benner Is that possible? So if that's the case and if that's a thing you wanna look into, we just have to figure out a way for you to test it for a couple of days. So my thought would be spring break's over. Right? Yeah. Yeah. My thought would be to choose a lot of meals that you know how to bolus for. Do you see what I'm saying? And something that you're really good at. Because right now like, forget all the math for a second. Like, think of a lunch that you give her, and you know that if she gets a certain amount of insulin, it's gonna go well. Right? Like, what is that lunch? How much insulin is that?
Danette You know, I really couldn't even tell you.
Scott Benner Okay. Alright.
Danette There's just so many variables. Feel like this is why I look at her numbers constantly because I don't know if I'm gonna get what I expect.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette We get different outcomes with the exact same situation. And, you know, when we talk to a nurse or a provider, it's like, well, that's just diabetes. And for me, that doesn't work because I want stability. I don't wanna have to call the nurse and say, hey. She just had this thirty point drop. You need to give her an applesauce. You need to give her juice. I don't wanna have to pay attention.
Scott Benner What's her insulin sensitivity? One unit moves or how far?
Danette So we have that at one fifty during the day because when she's on the pump, based on the types of auto corrections that she was getting, like, even a quarter unit or point two was making her go low with her activity schedule.
Scott Benner If this was me, I would be simultaneously moving the basal more aggressively while I make the carb ratio less aggressive. Just hoping that that puts me in a good enough place that I don't really have to worry about corrections for a minute because just the math on 25 units a day at her weight is saying point five an hour basil, one unit covers 20 carbs, one unit moves her 75. And I don't know if any of that would be right or not. Mhmm. But what I do know is it's nowhere near what you're doing. Let's just imagine for a second that 12 basal is right for her. I mean, that's it's aggressive for a sixty pound person. What I'm gonna say is is that it's possible that once you get these things kind of adjusted in better, you might find that her total daily insulin is not 25.
Danette Right.
Scott Benner It's gonna probably be lower than that by the time you do it, but you're not gonna be able to get to it if you're under baseling or over bolusing things, making her low, feeding her again, then drifting lower all night long and having to add food, which eventually needs insulin. So I don't know how much extra insulin you're using because of the the way things are happening. But I think if this was me, I'd move her basal up. I would be less aggressive on carb ratio using some foods that are not super fatty or difficult to bolus for or really sugary for a while just to get stable.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner Because I don't wanna sound like an old timey CDE here, but, like, it feels like what you need is, like, some good old fashioned basil testing
Danette Right.
Scott Benner To get that set in. And then once you're comfortable knowing, hey. Look. This basil's working. Now you could dial in the carb ratio a little bit and say, okay. You know, I'm good at this meal. Seems like one unit is covering x amount of carbs. Then get that closer. Then once you've got those two things figured out, then you can start fiddling with the sensitivity a little bit and trying to figure out what that is. Because your numbers are, like like, everything doesn't sort of make sense, which to me says the basal's not right.
Danette Right.
Scott Benner That's really I mean, that's it. To me, it doesn't she's getting six a day basil. I think it would be fair to try eight and then see what happens. It's Tresiba. Right? So what's it running like that weird clock? What do they say it's in there for? Thirty six hours till it's gone or something like that? Right? It kinda overlaps with the next injection. So if you wanted to move up more slowly, I would think that would make sense. Like, if you're six, go to six and a half, wait till your next injection. She's not getting low. Great. Let's go to seven. You know? And then with an eye on maybe seven and a half as maybe the baseline, And then, hopefully, you're using less insulin at meals because you've got more basil going. You will use less insulin at meals because you've got more basil going. Right?
Danette Right.
Scott Benner And then just keep kinda dialing that in. It probably shouldn't take you more than, a week to get that straight if that ends up being the issue. But I don't know what else it could be. Like, I mean, I am a little you know, she's had pus in her cannula, that kind of stuff. I don't think it's worth ignoring that maybe she's having allergic reactions and her sights aren't working well. Like, maybe that's why she's needing more insulin. But still, if that was the case, I mean, she's MDI right now. Right? So, I mean, even if that was the case, that's not gonna be a thing you're gonna notice right now. So if you got the settings great on MDI and then went back to a manual pump and they didn't work, but she was having inflammation around the cannula and stuff, then maybe you'll say, okay. She seems to be having a reaction to the cannula material, which is why her insulin needs are going up. Does any of this making sense at all to you?
Danette Yeah. It's just hard to think about when to implement that.
Scott Benner When to implement what?
Danette Like, to start titrating up and evaluating meals and things like that.
Scott Benner We're not gonna give her any more insulin than she's getting now. We're just gonna move it into different places.
Danette So
Scott Benner weekends here. Right?
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner She goes to school on Friday. When do you shoot the basil, in the morning or in the evening?
Danette Evening.
Scott Benner Awesome. So Friday night, move up a half a unit, and then live through Saturday using less insulin for meals. By how much? I I don't that's the thing is I don't really know. But, I mean, we could do some, like, rough math. Let's do this. So if she goes up just a half a unit a day, then what's the percentage of that?
Danette But won't it take time to see that? Because we're working that's another thing also is that we're working with an educator from Integrated Diabetes, and she said that Tresiba can take a couple days to
Scott Benner To change.
Danette Yeah. Yeah. So, like, you had to evaluate it, like, two days at a time, basically.
Scott Benner Yeah. Because it's not an in and out in twenty four hours kind of thing. It overlaps on itself. So some of some of the injection from Friday night is still going on Saturday night. But my point is is that you just a half the unit up on the basal, okay, And then, I don't know, change the insulin to carb ratio, make it a little weaker. Just a little bit. Just to kinda make up for it in case you're worried. But I don't imagine that another half a unit of Tresiba is gonna suddenly make her low all day long. And by the way, if it does, then you're gonna feed the insulin, and then, you know, you won't do it the next day. Like, it's gonna be like a a life and death situation if you move a half a unit at a time, almost a rounding error. Mhmm. To me, that's the only thing that makes sense is to get a better balance of the insulin going. But if it doesn't make sense to you I mean, I would go talk about it with other people. If you're using somebody integrated, I have that conversation with them. I wouldn't ask your doctors. They don't sound like
Danette Oh, no.
Scott Benner Yeah. They're just gonna say, oh, shucks, ma'am. You're looking too close at all this.
Danette Yes. Pretty much.
Scott Benner We got the sugar. It's what are you gonna do?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. Are you sleeping? No. No. Because you sound a little frazzled. Is that fair?
Danette Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in a really interesting situation. You're not the first person I met like this. You're like, I'm at my wit's end. I need something to do. What would you do? And I say, what about this? You go, I can't do that. I didn't laugh at you because you're in a dire situation today. No. But, like, but earlier when you said it, I was like, this is incredibly common because you're at the point now where you can't even fathom doing anything differently. Right? Like, it's just like, how do you even, like, contextualize making another change when all you've been doing is making changes for five years and nothing's working?
Danette Right.
Scott Benner I would say go back to basics on this one. If the basal's not right, then the boluses aren't gonna work. Gonna be higher. You're gonna be low. You're gonna be feeding insulin, or you're gonna be shooting more to get a a down. Get the basal right. Work on the carb ratio after that, then look at the insulin sensitivity at the end, which should be pretty easy by the time you have the two together. Mhmm. I think that's what you should be doing. I mean, the truth is is, like, if you just brought her here and left her here, I think I could get it straight for you. But it's because I've been sleeping, and I haven't been staring at this mess for five years. So I wouldn't be burdened by any of the what ifs. You said it earlier. Like, you're seeing ghosts at this point. Like, well, what if it's the cannula? What if it's the insulin? What if it's this? What if it's that? I say, stop thinking that it's any of that and just go back to the three things that we know definitely impact blood sugar. And if we can't get that right, then we could look at the what ifs again.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner That makes sense?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah? You sure?
Danette Yeah. I think
Scott Benner so. Okay. Do you feel any better now that we've talked?
Danette I mean, yes and no.
Scott Benner Why not? Tell me the no parts.
Danette It just seems like there are just so many different things. Like, oh, well then, I don't know. It it's always something. You know?
Scott Benner I asked you to stay in the three things and you're beyond them again. So are you anxious?
Danette I'm not an anxious person until it comes to this.
Scott Benner Okay. And because you feel like a failure?
Danette Yeah. Or I can't control it or she's not with me. So let me just go ahead and up her basal and send her to school. And, you know, the nurses won't let me text her to have a couple of gummies here and there. I have to wait for them to do it and hope there's not an emergency across the street that they're attending to. These are all just I don't wanna say stupid, but,
Scott Benner what ifs. Yeah. I understand. But so, are you a control freak?
Danette I mean, apparently.
Scott Benner Would you have seen yourself that way before? What would your husband say if I asked him? That the baby Oh
Danette my god. He would say, of course.
Scott Benner No. Okay. Well, then can I give you the greatest advice that you'll never get from your husband and wouldn't take from him if he gave it to you?
Danette Stop being crazy.
Scott Benner You should calm down. Yeah.
Danette Yeah. Yeah. You said that before. Yeah.
Scott Benner Just just listen. If I could just get my wife to listen to me one time. My wife's been telling me the same thing.
Caregiver Burnout and the Importance of Sleep
Scott Benner I want you to know that I got married in 1996. It is 2026 right now. I dated that girl before we were married. Okay? So I think we've been together something like thirty three years or something like that. My wife's a very hardworking person. Okay? She is, what we used to call type a, but now we call anxious. I said to somebody the other day, I can't wait to find out what we call it next time. Because, you know, remembering it used to be like, oh, they're wound pretty tight. Like, we've had all these little sayings for anxiety, like, throughout the world. My wife's an anxious person. She's also a go getter. She's a type a. She however you wanna think about it. You give her a job, she can do a really good job. Okay? And she's in an industry where something's always happening. Something's always happening. Probably 10 things are always happening. Probably a 100 things are always happening. She's always behind. My wife always says to me, when I get caught up, I can stop working so much. And I say to her, it's been thirty years. You haven't caught up yet. Maybe it's time to stop thinking that's gonna happen. But she's like, no. No. No. No. I'm gonna get it. That's the place you're at. In the end, those doctors are a little right. It is diabetes to some degree. Like, it's not a thing you're just gonna know black and white all the time. And if you don't have that art part of it, if you can't just go, well, let's turn this up and see what happens. You know what I mean? Like, if you can't do that part, then you are busy trying to cage a tiger made out of water. It isn't a thing you're gonna be able to make perfect, but you can get it close enough that perfect doesn't matter. And I think that's where somebody like me with this sort of like, hey. Let's just see what happens attitude. Mhmm. I think you're probably stuck in years of what you perceive as failure, which I would tell you is not failure. It's just not perfection. And you're stuck in a little bit of that feeling of I'm letting her down. I can't stop looking. I can't look away. If I look away, what if this happens? Like, those are a lot of uncontrollable things. It's probably how you get yourself in the situation. And I don't mean like you did it to yourself, but how you find yourself in the situation where a person who doesn't know you that well, who's only seeing you every three months says to you, maybe you should just be happy with what you got, which I think is their way of saying, lady, calm down.
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner But they can't say that to you because, you know, laws and polite and everything. But I think your settings are wrong. That's it. I think your settings are probably a little wrong. And once you got them a little closer, you wouldn't be chasing stuff around all the time. You probably wouldn't be over or under reacting to something causing the next problem because that's all that's happening. You need to start over. You need a baseline to start over at. I mean, you got the right idea, and you tried to do it at spring break, and then she got that infection. That must have felt like a cruel joke when that happened. Oh, yeah. Yeah. By the way, you're like, well, it's okay. Spring break will come next year again. I don't know. Like, you have to tell me honestly, do you think you can just I mean, I don't know. Do have weed? Like, is there a way you can calm down for a little bit and relax and just kinda, like, turn your focus down by 40%?
Danette I don't know. I guess if I'm intentional about it.
Scott Benner Yeah. That was very honest. You're like, not sure. Hey. Is your mom anxious?
Danette No. No?
Scott Benner Like, when it comes to this kind of stuff, like, the diabetes is the only thing that makes me anxious. That's something. I mean, I will tell you, I was talking to someone at work, and we're just kinda talking about life.
Danette He was like, oh, that must be really hard to constantly worry about your daughter. I was like, you know, I'm good at everything I have ever done. Like, no effort whatsoever successful. You name it.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette I can try things that I've never done before and just be good at them except for this. That's what it feels like.
Scott Benner Yeah. I think it may be the goalposts are getting not just moved on you, but maybe they're they've given you 10 goalposts and they're all moving at the same time, and you're trying to put them all where they belong. And that's just not how this is gonna work. Exactly. You know what I mean? I hate to do this to you. Like, it's timing and amount. You just have to put the right amount of insulin at the right time, and it'll work
Danette for you.
Scott Benner And so if you can at least, I think step one would be just try to believe that for a second and stop wondering what else could be happening.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner And then step two would be, I know that Tresiba doesn't they want you to have two days worth of data before you know if you're making a change or not. But, I mean, honestly, you only have the weekend. You have a Friday night injection, a Saturday night injection, and maybe a Sunday night injection to make a decision before you're gonna send her back to school on Monday and feel like, oh god, what did I do? They're not gonna let me call her. I can't give her a gummy bear, like, before all that hits you. So you're just gonna have to do it. And so maybe it's gonna take a bunch of weekends instead of a week. Like, maybe you're gonna have to go little more on Friday, little more on Saturday, pause, get to Friday, do it again, and it might take you maybe two or three weekends till you get the basal where it's supposed to be, and you start getting a better feel for what the carb ratio actually might be.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner That's possible. I mean, it sounds like a plan to me at least. Yeah. Oh, god. Was this helpful at all? Aren't you glad I didn't try to text this back to you? Oh my god. What'd you say? I said, aren't you glad I didn't try to just answer your email? Because I would have said something that would have just frustrated the hell out of you without the conversation, I think.
Danette Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just seems almost too simple. Like, for example, we took her all the way up to, seven and a half units of Tresiba. She was going low, so took it back down. Like, all this back and forth is just so maddening.
Scott Benner You know? Put her to seven and a half, did you change the carb ratio?
Danette Well, because we were on that bad insulin, we didn't make any changes. I did make a change today because yesterday, uncharacteristic. So we'd switched to the fias because we just weren't getting a lot of you know, we want that fast reacting insulin because they are not prebolising her at school, which is fine. It is what it is. But she's recess, like, right after lunch, and it's starting to get warm outside. So she is running super hard, and we're having to back off her doses. And now we can't do an extended bolus, which was helping us on the pump, right, to kind of do an eighty twenty split over an hour. And now we're losing that ability, so it's kind of relearning how we're gonna approach dosing. So it's just like you said, it's just so many things at once.
Scott Benner You have made more changes to that kid's regimen in five years than I've made in twenty years. Yeah. Yeah. Stop talking about diabetes for a second because you just said something that I wanna dig into in this last little bit here. I know you gotta go. You're probably like, how long is that lady pumping? I didn't even think she had a baby. You said I'm successful at a a lot of things. I just set upon doing something and I do it, which means that your gut usually gets you there. Right?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Like, gut decisions work out, generally speaking. And so this is maybe part of the issue. It feels like you're trying to find the answer so hard. You're just not doing what common sense says. Like, so in a regular life situation, like taking the diabetes out of it, I changed this. I moved that. I did this over here. I can't get like, what would you tell yourself? You'd say go back to one. Simplify. Right? Like, just Mhmm. Simplify. Let's push out the external extraneous stuff. Focus on the keep ourselves alive ideas. Let's sit in the house and watch movies all weekend. Right? Like, life's overwhelmed. What do you do? Life gets overwhelming. You get to the weekend. You put a ball game on Friday night. You watch a movie on Saturday. You stare at a goddamn wall on Sunday, and you go back to work. Because you didn't, you were gonna, like, end up in a clock tower somewhere. Like right? So do that to diabetes. Just go back to go. Like, start over again. Mhmm. Forget all you think you know about what's happening, and just what does your gut tell you to do? Right? Like, get her basal right, set her carb ratio, work on the rest later. You keep saying, well, she's gonna run around. It's hot. There's this. There's that. You can't balance all that. Your brain isn't capable of that. I don't know we could feed all that into a machine and get out the right answer. So just control the parts you know, do it at a basic level, go to basic life support, control the parts you understand, see where that gets you, and build slowly. I think it's possible you maybe started too many projects all at once, so you don't know what's impacting what anymore. Mhmm. Does that ring true to you at all?
Danette Yeah. That's fair.
Scott Benner Yeah. Alright. Well, I fixed it. There. Good. Well, there you go. Do that then.
Danette If I can unsubscribe and I can stop listening then.
Scott Benner Well, hey, listen. If this works for you, you better download every episode. Just let it play overnight. I don't care if you listen or not. I feel like this has been a valuable conversation, but I don't know if it has or not. And you won't know for a while either. Yeah. Will you, like, reach out and let me know what's going on?
Danette Yes. I will.
Scott Benner Okay. If this actually works, you're gonna come back and record for, like, another half hour. Will you do that for me?
Danette I will.
Scott Benner And if it doesn't work, you can come back and yell at me. That'll be fine. Gosh. I hope you can on top of what I just said, you're married. Right? That guy didn't kick that boy out. Right? So No. I would tell him, on Friday night, I'm going to sleep, and you're taking care of that kid. And on Saturday night, I'll do it for you. But you and I are both sleeping ten hours at least once this weekend because I think that will help you. We didn't talk about it a lot, but from my personal experience, when you start getting low on sleep like this, that's when you start sounding like you're sounding when you're talking about stuff. You seem frazzled, and I'm telling you, like, sleep drips away slowly. You don't recognize it as it's escaping out through the seams, and it's not a thing you can power through even though you think you can. You get some good sleep, a lot of this might make more sense.
Danette Yeah. That's true.
Scott Benner Yeah. I'm being dead serious with you. Like, the light of day on good sleep, you make a lot of better decisions than you are right now. I listen. I've been married a long ass time. I don't have a serious conversation about anything after 8PM. Because when people are tired, and the later it gets, the worse it goes. And you're in the middle of that conversation, and you think you're right. You think it's important. You think it's right. You think it's life or death. I have to make this point right now. And you wake up in the morning, you think, what in hell were we arguing about last night? And I'm telling you that's all being tired. Mhmm. So I would do trade offs the next couple of weekends. Everybody gets a full night's sleep at least once on a weekend, get her stuff going a little better. Your life could look just completely different in a month. You know? But you gotta stop chasing all the ghosts and thinking you're actually gonna catch them all, name them, put them in order, make sense of them. None of that is probably even important. I heard you quote the podcast a bunch of different times in this hour. Don't forget, often, the best thing to do is nothing.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner Yeah. Often, there's nothing to do. People just overengineer everything and touch too many buttons and, you know, and I mean life, not just diabetes. Yeah. Yeah. Chill out. Watch a movie. Go out for dinner. When's the last time you had sex? Do that. Try to chill out a little bit.
Danette All the things. I'll do all the things.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Do them all. Right. Act like you're 20. Was the weed idea good or you you don't do that?
Danette No. I don't do that.
Scott Benner Well, find something. Don't drink. Okay? I'm pretty sure drinking is bad. Alright. We're good?
Danette We're good.
Scott Benner Alright. Hold on one second for me. Okay? We're gonna
Danette stop. The
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