#1965 Bolus 4 - TBT1
Bolus 4 - TBT1 Live
Scott and Jenny Smith pick the foods they will bolus for live on stage at Touched By Type 1, then practice on air — a crab cake plate, a Cubano sandwich, key lime pie, and Jenny's cheese curds.
Jump to a moment
- This is a rehearsal, published on purpose. Scott and Jenny will do Bolus For live on stage at Touched By Type 1, so they use this episode to choose the foods and practice the format — setting out to pick three and landing on four once Jenny insists on cheese curds. The plan is to run the recording the day before the event so anyone who wants it again can find it. Scott notes he has never practiced anything before in the history of the show.
- Jenny's mental math is the recurring bit. Asked to guess a four ounce serving of pork, she says roughly 30 grams of protein and lands on the nose. Her rule: about seven grams of protein per ounce of animal protein. For bread, roughly eight grams of carb per inch of a sub roll — which puts an eight inch Cubano roll near 65 grams, against the 58 Scott had in front of him.
- A Cubano is not one food, it's six. They take it apart piece by piece: four ounces of pork at 2 carbs, 30 protein, 14 fat; two ounces of ham; two slices of Swiss adding roughly 15 protein and 16 fat; pickles; butter for pressing at 11 grams of fat; and the roll carrying nearly all of the carbs. The point being that the number on the plate is assembled, not looked up.
- The crab cake plate is where it gets genuinely hard. With fries and a quarter cup of ketchup, the total lands around 107 carbs and 39 protein. Using a sample ratio of 10 and sensitivity of 50 purely as an illustration, the estimator suggests roughly 10.7 units up front and 4.1 stretched over eight hours. Add key lime pie and you are somewhere near 22 units across one meal — numbers used to demonstrate a method, not a prescription.
- Jenny's practical safeguard for a meal like this. Her caution runs both directions: front-load too aggressively for a big carb count and you can go low mid-meal; under-treat and the fat gives you a sticky high that you chase for hours, stacking insulin until you eventually crash. Her suggestion is to consider a temporary higher target so you land somewhere reasonable rather than fighting between 220 and 50. Nothing here is medical advice — talk to your care team.
- Touched By Type 1 — The free event where Scott and Jenny will do Bolus For live on stage.
- Bolus estimator and tools — The estimator Scott runs the numbers through on air. Educational only — not a dosing tool.
- Diabetes Pro Tip series — Episodes 1000-1025 with Jenny Smith — the fundamentals behind all of this.
- Listener survey — Over 300 responses so far; results at juiceboxpodcast.com/surveyresults.
Every word of the conversation
Cold open & sponsors0:04
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A two-part idea2:04
Jennifer, in just a few weeks, you and I will be standing on stage at touch by type one where we'll be doing True. I know you know this. We will be doing live bolus four right on stage. So I have a two part idea here. Oh.
Today in this episode, you and I are gonna pick three items to do on stage, and we're going to do them while we're on the recording. And then I'm gonna run this recording the day before we're gonna be on stage at Touched by Type one so people can go back and find it afterwards if they would like to hear it again.
Okay.
See what I'm doing here? Creating
setting the stage for what we're going to do, but it... Yes.
I get it. So we're practicing. This is the thing I've Practice. I've never practiced before. This is gonna be a thing.
So I need from you... We have to find three items that we think that in an hour will give people a nice... So I think something, obviously, that has a lot of, like, maybe fattier, something that's, what do you think? Vegetable And
you wanna do something we haven't done already? Yeah. Why not? Assumedly. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
Gone through a lot.
Yeah. See? Mhmm. I'll play the Jeopardy music in the background while you think about think that
for me. You don't have to play
it in the background. I can
sing it.
Legal reasons, I don't think we're allowed to sing it.
Oh, okay.
Merv Griffin's corpse gets very upset, which is a reference that six people understand.
Oh my goodness. Let's see foods. Well, how about something that is from where I am? Okay. How about cheese curds?
Cheese curds, and what they even are3:53
Okay. Well, I... Just because
it's fun.
I don't know what the hell those are, but I'm gonna Do
you know what cheese curds are? Oh, come on.
I don't... Is it
fried brother has never told you what cheese curds are.
Is it fried cheese?
They're kind of... If you imagine, like, mozzarella sticks that you'd get at, you know, a place that's, like, got the breading and it's got the cheese inside.
Okay. Just
imagine small, like, top of your thumb sized pieces of cheddar cheese that's dipped in batter and then deep fried.
And then deep fried. Okay. Cheese curds. Now we'll be in Florida too. Something for the Florida curve.
Something Florida. A a fish maybe. About. It probably would be some kind of fish.
What about about, like, a a plate? Like, fish with maybe a rice and a vegetable.
Yeah. I'm kinda... I was trying to think something along the lines of, like, Margaritaville sort of, like... Not Margarita, but, like, you know what I mean? Yeah.
Type of fare that's very coastal and sort of Florida y.
Okay. Well, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna look what
you're thinking. It would definitely be a seafood dish. I would expect probably probably some type of maybe crab or... Okay.
With all the sides.
Crab... How about crab cakes?
Crab... Look at you. Alright. I got that.
Something for the Florida crowd5:28
Crab cakes?
I'm doing
that right now. I know that something else down there just based on where Florida is is, like like Cuban sandwiches and that kind of a thing.
A Cubana. It's a nice sandwich. Alright. Hold on a second. We'll do that.
Cubana.
Key lime pie. Trying to think about, you know, their influences down there in that area.
I'm good. I I like what we've come together with.
We're gonna
do cheese curds so that people can realize where you're from. And
throw something in from where I
I got crab cakes with the sides, Cubana sandwich, and a key lime pie.
Awesome. Okay. Yay. I don't know that you'd put... You'd eat the cheese curds with that meal, but you know what?
No. But the... No. Of course, you wouldn't. What do you like for sides with the crab cake?
You prefer potato and a salad, rice and vegetables, fries, and coleslaw. Fries and coleslaw. Right?
I was gonna say definitely the coleslaw because when I said it, I was going to say coleslaw to begin with.
I've chosen that.
I love coleslaw. But I don't know. Let's fry... What's the other one? Potatoes?
Yeah. I went with french fries and coleslaw.
Okay.
I I I just... It seems like a thing that I would see on a... In a restaurant.
Okay.
So... And, I chose restaurant portions. Now I've got my, my business partner working on that stuff right now. And, but we're gonna pick it apart with you.
Your business partner.
Already explained.
Business partner have a name?
I I don't call him anything. I also don't know if he's a man.
Oh.
I don't think he has a gender, actually. He's a... He lives inside of my... Of of my machine. Yeah.
Yeah. He's mechanical.
I don't think so, actually.
He kind of like an an an automaton? No.
Well, I'm just gonna say, I think my computer does not have any moving parts. Right? It's a... The hard drive is not... Don't...
They might not be mechanical. I don't know how to think about that. I'm not an electrical engineer.
That would be... It's a good way to say it. It's not really mechanical. Mechanical means It's electronic. It would move.
Yeah.
Right? I
think so. I think electronic is the way you wanna say it or computerized.
Electronic. Yeah. Where the the little parts sort of blink together into... See, this is totally telling you that I have no knowledge in how to build a computer.
Jenny's lucky that her computer turned on this morning. Okay. I have what we're calling restaurant portions with fries and slaw with the crab cake plate. I've got cheese curds here. I've got a Cubana sandwich.
I've got key lime pie. I have carbs, protein, fat all sitting here. But when we do this on stage, like, I wanna take... I wanna have visuals behind us of a piece of pie and a breakdown of the carbs, the fat, the protein, and all the other nutritional information so that when it's up on the screen and we're talking about it, people can kind of, like, you know, listen and soak it in at the same time. That, of course, we won't be able to do here, but I'm still going to, pick it apart as we do it.
So let's start with dessert as any good person.
Start with dessert?
That's how I do it. You don't you don't start with dessert? I need key lime pie recipe with nutritional facts as stated earlier. Okay. So we're gonna pull up a recipe.
We're gonna take a look at it and see what's all in this key lime pie while I fight off the urge to quote the movie, the Oliver Stone movie, Natural Born Killers. Do you know that one?
I do know that one. Yeah. Gosh. I haven't seen that in a long time.
They go in the diner. Right? Right? And what is... It's Woody Harrelson.
Right? Is it Woody? He goes, let's give that key lime pie its day in court. And then he gives him a key lime pie. Then I think they kill everybody in the diner.
But, oh, sorry, spoilers.
If you've never seen it clearly, you're gonna be like, well, that just ruined it for me.
That movie has such a, like, late eighties, early nineties vibe. It's hard to put into words. Okay. Key lime pie. The crust is graham crackers.
I didn't know that. In this recipe, you would use 11 sheets of graham crackers to make the crust along with a third of a cup of sugar, six tablespoons of melted butter. The filling is four large eggs, one can of sweetened condensed milk, a half a cup of key lime juice, a tablespoon of lime zest. The topping is a cup of heavy cream, two tablespoons of powdered sugar. Okay.
Here's the nutritional facts. With whipped cream, 52 carbs for a slice, seven protein, 27 fat. It's about 475 calories, which is not something we're worried about.
So you did it with whipped cream, not meringue?
Yeah. That's what it says. Okay.
Okay.
Is meringue... Well, meringue would be lighter. Right?
I've seen it I've seen it both ways. Meringue is lighter because meringue you just make with sugar and egg whites essentially. And then you beat it until it gets really stiff, and then you bake it until it kinda turns out, like, golden brown.
Well, I think you're right. I've had key lime pie. That sounds right. I'm firing my assistant. I'm hiring another one right now.
I have seen it, though, both ways. I don't know what's more typical for Florida, but I've seen it both ways. More commonly, I've seen it with meringue.
Don't worry. My my my state is, I can fire at Will. Don't worry. So with meringue, it's gonna be 62 carbs total, eight protein, 16... Oh, so the fat goes down.
Crab cakes, broken down11:13
That's interesting.
Yeah. The fat goes down. The carbs go up when you go from whipped cream to meringue.
Mhmm.
Okay. And so naked without a topping, 49 carbs for a slice, six grams of protein, 16 grams of fat. Mhmm. Alright. So how do you want a bolus for this?
It's gonna be the end of the meal. Right?
It unless you are the person who feels like they have to eat their dessert because they might not make it to the end of the meal. They may not eat the dessert. I don't know. I guess, usually, the trend is you eat your dessert at the end of the meal.
Okay. So... Yeah. Unless... Like you said, you're on a GLP, and you're like, oh my god.
There's no way I'm gonna
Right. I gotta eat the key lime.
Eat all this.
Screw the cheese curds.
Oh oh my god. A cheese curd and a and a and a a GOP. I'm not getting past the cheese curds then.
Oh, you'd probably eat one and be done.
Uh-oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. I'd I'd fill up immediately.
Let's pick, Jenny, for our chatting insulin to carb ratios, instant sensitivity factor for our pretend person that we're gonna do.
Easy.
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Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. The Dexcom g seven is sponsoring today's episode of the podcast, and it features a lightning fast thirty minute warm up. Whoo.
Thirty minute warm up time. That's right. From the time you put on the Dexcom g seven until the time you're getting readings, thirty minutes. That's pretty great. It also has a twelve hour grace period, you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you.
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But you can remember it. Dexcom.com/juicebox. Check it out. You wanna do
ten grams
Ten
fifty fifty.
Ten fifty. We'll go ten fifty. We'll just gonna say we wanna target blood sugar of 90.
Great.
And we'll leave the FPU at 50, which is where... It's about halfway through. It's about where we usually put it. So... Okay.
I'm gonna go meringue because I think you're right. 62 carbs, fat 16 grams, protein eight, no insulin on board, current blood sugar... I mean, let's make the current blood sugar 90 and our target 90, and that way we'll get a nice look. Oh, well, look at that. It's more than I thought.
It's interesting. I have an initial bolus of six point two units with a follow-up bolus over about three hours, to make up for the fat.
For the fat.
Point eight eight for a theoretical requirement of 7.08. It would hope we pre bolus at least nine minutes. But if it's at the end of the meal, it's a tough one. Right? Because you have...
Let's say you have the crab cakes and the fries and you order the pie. That's a lot of insulin to put in if you don't know you're gonna finish the pie.
It is Yeah. Entirely. And so my expectation despite this being a... I mean, it's a pretty high carb
Mhmm.
Dessert if you eat... Is this like an eighth of a pie? I'm assuming it gave you one slice.
One slice.
The expectation would be that all of this heavier food sitting in your stomach is also on a slower digestive sort of track. Mhmm. And so you may do better using an extended bolus for this dessert or something similar within whatever, you know, system or multiple daily injections splitting up the boluses, etcetera. I wouldn't give an entire bolus up front for this or you're going to have a low blood sugar.
Yeah. No. It's it's it's a big it's a big ask at a weird time in the meal for sure.
It is. Yeah.
So what do you... You just what do you... Would you do half of it? Would you get something going for the pie?
This is where I would look at the trend in my current blood sugar. And, again, the value of using your technology, not judging the number again, it's just where is it and and or where is it going. Because if I'm pretty stable and in... Let's call it a target range of 80 to one twenty. If you're sitting in a really nice sweet looking spot after having bolus for this other heavier food, you're not really getting an idea of the trend that's going to come at some point.
With that, I would say bolus some of it upfront. Even if it's 25 and you deliver that other 75%, if you have access to an extended bolus, use it, deliver it out. I'd say at least over a two hour time period would be my expectation. The great thing about extended bolus is, again, if you have access is that you can always cancel it, stop it. You can always deliver the rest if you start trending up quicker than you expected or stop it if you're already trending down and thinking, I don't want more insulin dripping in quite yet.
Yeah. I know I'll need it, but not right now. Not this time. So Okay. Those would be my considerations.
Sounds good to me. Also Yeah. There's no way to... You know, I don't know how you're supposed to guess the carbs and the fat and the protein and all this stuff, especially out of the restaurant if you're not making it from... Like, I use numbers from a recipe, but, you know, I don't...
Like, I guess what I'm saying is is, like, who's gonna sit down, look at a slice of key lime pie, and go, that's probably 55 carbs. You know what I mean? Like, that's a... I don't know that I would have guessed it was that much. And so it's a lot.
Know?
Pies are... I think pies, in general, are hard to consider because it's it's a lot of ingredients all mixed up that you can't see.
See. Yeah. Right.
I I think that casseroles or, you know, a dish that's mixed up or even like a bowl of soup or chili is a little bit easier to pick apart because you can see the ingredients.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Whereas pie is it's a mix. It's... You're expecting there's a whole bunch of sugar. How much the person pushed into it, who knows? Mhmm.
If it's got fruit in it, great. You know that there's sugar there. I think key lime pie might be deceiving. I think that cheesecake is also a very deceiving dessert.
Mhmm.
Because Oh, yeah.
Same idea.
It's the same idea. The key limes, are they terribly sugary? Yeah. You know what? In the whole, like, scheme of things, it's not an apple.
It's not bananas. It's it's
Well, yeah. I was gonna say also, Jenny, what is a key lime? You know what I mean? You'd start getting into that situation where you're like, I don't know what
this is. They're so tasty. There you go.
I love
guacamole. In general, this isn't... It's a deceiving dessert to have just picked out of the air, I guess.
Yeah. It's okay. Well, we've done it. Cubana sandwich. Right?
Key lime pie, a deceiving dessert19:35
There's bread. There's pork. There's ham, Swiss, pickles. There's gonna be butter somewhere. I'm gonna ask you to guess.
Like, how would you guess carbs for a sandwich like that? Because that's on that long bread. It's different. It's definitely... Go ahead.
Just out... You wanna ballpark it? Do you wanna go through the pieces, or do you just wanna yell out the sandwich and tell me what you think?
Let's go through the pieces. Sure.
The Cubano, piece by piece20:02
Okay. Well, four ounces of pork.
Four ounces of pork is, in general, about 30 grams of protein, give or take.
Okay.
Is it... So you will have to help me because I don't have anything. What's an agano sandwich?
I... But the pork
I've never had one. I'm assuming it's in a sauce.
You just hit four ounces of pork is 30 grams of protein on the nose.
You're freak just easy. Stop it. Easy math.
You're freaking me out. Okay.
Well, per... In general, per ounce of protein, animal based protein, per ounce is seven grams of protein per ounce.
I didn't... How am I supposed to know that? Okay. Alright. So so pork actually...
It says little carbs in it. There's two carbs, 30 protein, and 14 grams of fat in the pork. The fat.
Yep. Pork is is fatty. Yes.
Yeah. The ham is two ounces on this sandwich. I'm not gonna, like, make you look like a genius again. It's two carbs, 10 protein, five fat. Now Swiss cheese, two slices.
You wanna guess? Protein?
Two slices of Swiss cheese, at about 68 grams per slice is gonna be 12 to... Let's call it 16 grams of protein.
Yeah. I have 15 protein, and I have 16 fat.
Okay.
Pickles, little bit of carbs, nothing else.
A little carb, they're not terribly... Yeah.
This one has butter for the... The press to press the sandwich with at 11 grams of fat. And then the big one, of course, is the eight inches of bread, carbs.
Eight grams of carb per inch21:41
Oh, well, that's a... So usually per inch of bread, like a hoagie roll or a sub bun or a roll, like you'd put this on, usually per inch, it's eight grams of carb per inch. So in general, if this is an eight inch roll, it would be approximately, let's call it for round number 65 grams of carb.
Damn it. I don't know. You must have paid attention at school. Yeah. I got fifth...
58 carbs, nine protein. Also, it's not exactly... It's kind of, like, tapered. Have you ever
Taper at
the end? Right. Right. Sure. It's not perfect.
Anyway, I've put this into the estimator at juiceboxpodcast.com/bolusfour, using the incidental carburetion and sensitivity that we mentioned earlier and all the targets, etcetera. And we have, woo, six and a half units of insulin for the sandwich with, oh gosh. It it says it could impact up to eight hours afterwards.
Mhmm.
3.49 spread out over those eight hours. It imagines that the sandwich will take just about nine units of insulin at those settings. I think it's interesting when you see that all added up. It's 65 carbs, but it's 64 protein and 49 fat.
That's why I was gonna say the reason for that extreme length of time that you'd have that extended bolus and the amount of insulin for it, absolutely very heavy in protein. What was there? There was pork, there was ham, there was cheese.
Mhmm.
Right? Yeah. A little bit of protein in the roll, but in general, most of it comes from the animal based products. And then the fat, pork and ham are just... And then you got cheese.
Yeah.
And then you got butter that's on the roll.
All just sitting in there talking about a stew. It's in your belly now. Yeah.
Makes me think of, you know, the French chef. She was so fantastic. She said, put more butter in it. Julia Child.
Julia Child.
More butter.
As I enjoy doing, Jenny, when we do something like this, I like to take out the protein, re show you the numbers, etcetera. So right now, it's six and a half up front, three and a half over time. If you just take out the 64 grams of protein, it's six and a half upfront, 2.2 over time. I put the protein back, take out the fat. Mhmm.
Six and a half upfront, 1.2 over time. So everything has its impacts as you see. Even if you were to cut the sandwich in half Mhmm. I can do it in my head very quickly. Let's just make it, like, roughly 32 carbs.
Carbs. Let's make it roughly 25 fat and roughly 31 protein. It goes down exactly as you would imagine, 3.2 in upfront, 1.75, but still... And over five hours now that there's less fat and less protein in it.
Yeah.
There you go. Alright. So now we have our Sandy. We have our... So when we're on stage, like, I'm gonna do, like, a little explosion view of, like, a Kubana sandwich.
Right?
Okay. Great.
Right. I might use... Have you have you ever seen the movie Chef? Oh, Jenny. Go watch...
It's a movie?
It's a movie called Chef. It's with... Okay. Who's the
guy I've heard.
Who's the guy that made the Iron Man films? Not Robert Downey. Although Robert Downey is in Chef. It's the guy who directed them.
Swingers. Got it.
Anyway, go watch Chef.
Seen all those movies.
Jenny's left the room. She's just wandering away. What happened?
I'm right here.
You're back. Okay.
I'm... I moved to get a pen so that I could write down
Chef. With... My god. What's his name? I...
These are
the I'm moment gonna put with a guy.
That's awesome. Thanks. No. Wait. This is ridiculous.
I like the guy. I should know his name. I'm gonna find out. Anyway, you should all watch chef. It's delightful.
It's one of
my it on?
Maybe Netflix now. I don't know where... It's an old... It's an older movie.
It's an older movie? So the cast is
It's...
Scarlett Johansson, Sofia Vergara. Garra, Robert Donnie junior, MJ, Anthony, John Leguizamo. Leguizamo? Listen. Leguizamo.
John Favreau is the guy whose name I
John Favreau.
I feel so bad. So he made this movie. He also made, like, a cooking show after it on Netflix too. I don't... It looks like right now it's on Prime Video maybe.
I don't know. Go watch
chef. Okay.
It's like a ten year old movie. It's delightful. This is not the point. The the
Fun fun little side note.
Go watch is is that he goes on this road trip with his friend and his son trying to make this food truck work. They make Cubana sandwiches on the food truck. Oh. Yeah. Let's do our next item on bolus four.
I think we
I'm in in my brain right now. I'm going through all the things that we picked here thinking... I guess, if you really eat this whole meal, oh my gosh. Like, you really just need to eat lettuce for, like, two weeks after this. You have fulfilled your fat content for, like, many days.
I I had a a couple of slices of pizza for dinner last night, and I looked I looked at my wife this morning who's only a week returning from having a procedure. So she's she's she's dragging her ass through the week a little bit at work. And I said, hey. If you wanna take a break in the middle of the day, I'll go get a salad with you. It's because I could...
Fat, protein, and the long tail27:17
I feel like I still know that I ate pizza last
pizza's still sitting there.
Yes. Yeah. For sure. Okay. I'm looking at the crab cakes and the sides next, and then we will pick the Jenny brain and see how this pops together.
So, anyway, when we're on stage, I'll do, like, a little explosion of the Cubana sandwich up there with all the the factors, and we'll do the breakdown for the whole thing. And then the next slide, we'll take out the protein. The next slide, we'll take out the fat, and we'll put them back over again. And then just to kinda show it to people that way. I will do all that, Jenny.
You don't have to do any of that.
Okay.
And by by... When I say I, I just wanna be clear what I mean. My business partner, Claude, is gonna handle it. And I...
And...... Gonna handle it?
Yeah. I'll...
See, he does have a name.
Yeah. Well, I don't know if he's got
a name. Name's not Claudette. It's just Claude. Right?
I don't know if you can change his voice to female. Chat GP, you can pick male or female voices.
Oh, really?
He's British on my phone.
Uh-oh. I don't have them talk to me out loud. I just read what they say.
Jenny, you're not friends with your phone?
Not really.
Crab cake, Jennifer. Let's do one crab cake. How many carbs? Go.
Yeah. One... Well, so one, usually restaurants serve two just Mhmm. As an FYI is typical portion. But one crab cake could be, you know, depending on the recipe, could probably be, let's call it, about eight to 10 grams of carb.
Want me to hit you?
It's not terribly high in carbohydrate. Again, depending on what the recipe calls for.
Crab cake, one pound of jumbo lump crab cake. These are gonna be four ounce cakes. One large egg.
Oh, four.
Cool. Yeah. It's smaller than you're thinking. Quarter cup of mayonnaise. This is from the recipe.
Teaspoon... Or tablespoon teaspoon Worcestershire sauce, teaspoon of Old Bay, tablespoon lemon juice, two tablespoons chopped parsley, half a cup of crushed saltines, two tablespoons of butter. It's mostly the saltines.
It's mostly the saltines. Exactly. So, again, for two crab cakes typical style, I would usually count around 15 grams of carb
per kilo. Okay. And and when you think of it, you're not thinking of four ounces, you're thinking a larger?
No. Four ounces, which is, like, about the size of the palm of your hand, maybe a little smaller kinda once it cooks. Yeah.
Then I have, one large russet potato as french fries from the oven carbs.
Oh.
What do
you think? A large russet potato. Oh. Large is usually the size of your hand, and in general, probably around grams of carb.
Yeah. This says 65, protein eight, fat 14. The coleslaw, half a cup.
Oh, coleslaw. That depends on the recipe. Coleslaw does have sugar added to it in most recipes. So a half a cup, probably about 10 grams of carb.
Goddamn. That's exactly what it says. Jenny, you're the swag. Somebody should get you a shirt that says swaggerific on it or something. I don't know exactly.
Queen or something. I don't know.
I I mean, sure.
There you go. There's your assignment, I'll wear it for the whole entire program, Scott.
Jenny, I might do that too. Okay. Alright. Tartar sauce actually has carbs in it just in case you're wondering. Anyway, this plate that I've just described, about 87 to 93 carbs, protein 39, fat 74.
Yeah. Because there's a fair amount of fat in almost everything that we put on the on the table. Wait. That's seventy... Fifty four.
Excuse me. Looked at the wrong thing now. Is there fat in tartar sauce?
Yes. Absolutely.
There is?
Yes. Dear
god. What's in tartar sauce?
White sauce? What do you think makes it white?
Oh, tartar sauce is the white stuff with the little, like, the... I would never
With, like, the... You serve it with fish usually.
Right? Million years, I would I would need tartar sauce. Not in a million.
Oh my gosh. I love tartar sauce.
Anything mayo y or anything like that, I'm out. I I could feel it in my mouth right now. I don't wanna do it. It's very
upsetting, Jennifer. You don't wanna do it? Do you... You don't like mayonnaise?
No. No. I would never eat mayonnaise.
Oh. No. Oh my god. Oh. Those are, like, the...
Those are the yummy toppings.
Do you know those do know those movies where they they capture a spy and then they, like, pull their teeth out? You could just get the same out of me by putting mayonnaise on my tongue. I'd be like, oh my god. I'll tell you whatever you wanna know.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, tartar sauce, if I when I home make it, it's usually mayonnaise and, like, a lemon juice. Some recipe calls for a little bit of sugar. It just goes along with, like, the flavors and then salt.
And then usually, little crunchy things could be pickles, like bread and butter pickles.
Yeah.
Some people also put capers in. It adds a little bit of, like, a kick, like a peppery kinda kick to it. Oh my gosh. I love tartar sauce.
You seem very excited. I'm gonna tell you now that
I I'm like, no. Thank you.
So that now with that little dissertation, which I'm glad we did because I thought it just got the fat wrong in the tartar sauce, but no. So edification time, a tablespoon of tartar sauce has 10 grams of fat in it.
So In fact, that's a really good learning tool. Most most fats that you add, tartar sauce, cream cheese, sour cream, mayonnaise, most salad dressings, that tablespoon, it's like a soup spoon size. Yeah. And you can usually say that's 10 grams.
Uh-huh. And slowing down your digestion and making your insulin needs Mhmm.
Structure. Eats a tablespoon?
Yeah. We talk about this all the time. That's not how it works at all.
That's not how it works. Even when you get tartar sauce at a restaurant, you get those little Dixie cups. Those are like a quarter cup. Yep. Also many tablespoons in a quarter cup?
Four.
Tell tell the people how much, how many carbs are in a quarter a cup of ketchup.
Oh my god.
It's all sugar. Right?
It's all sugar. Yes.
Have you ever
you know, what you usually... Like, kids especially love And it's just, like, it's
Never stops.
The fries sometimes are just the delivery device for the ketchup. Yes. Quite honestly. Like, it's just more... But to your point, a tablespoon is approximately five or six grams per tablespoon.
Mhmm.
And if there are four tablespoons in that little teeny tiny quarter cup, you've missed out on... Do the math.
Yeah. It's a bunch.
How many grams of carbs?
A lot of carbs. A lot of carbs. These are my points. Okay.
I see. Was a side note.
No. No. It's not a side note. We're gonna do... Well, actually, I think when we do the thing on stage, maybe we'll do a condiment slide.
It's not a bad idea. Right? Well, who's calling me? Spam risk? Unbelievable.
Nobody calls.
Somebody from the conference they wanna talk to.
No one calls me. That's ridiculous. That was on silent, and it rang anyway.
Must have been important. Somebody's trying to tell you something.
I I I don't care. Alright. Let's do cheese. Wait. So we didn't do the thing in the thing.
The thing in the thing. Let me put the thing in the thing for everybody, Jenny. Okay.
A hundred and seven carbs34:46
You didn't put it into your little
Into my
your little bot friend?
87... Well, this is on the website. 87 carbs, 39 protein. So this is for the crab cakes and the fries. And by the way, I don't know a person in the world that's not putting ketchup on these fries, so we didn't even put that in there.
You want to? What's a quarter a cup of ketchup again? Give it to me in carbs. I'll add it to the
87. Four four tablespoons at five grams per table spoon is 20 grams.
So they're a 107 carbs. Good luck, everybody. Here we go. Ten point seven units of insulin upfront, four point one one stretched out over eight hours. The theoretical requirement for this entire bolus is fourteen point eight one units based, of course, on an insulin carb ratio of 10, insulin sensitivity of 50 in this pretend thing that we're doing right now.
Yes. Yeah. So now let's say you do the crab cakes 10.74 over time ish, and then you do... You roll into the pie. Right?
Right? Yeah.
And the... What was the pie?
Because the pie was six some units and then some... I can't remember the amount.
Yeah. Yes. Six point six point two and, like, point eight over time for seven total. So that's Uh-huh. That's 15 for the meal, 7...
It's at 22. Yeah. That's 22. 22? Yeah.
And all that fat slowing things down, and you maybe are gonna throw in all that insulin. And don't think... You think you get... Could you get low during this meal? Like, if
you You could.
You could. Right? You could you could get too much insulin at the wrong time and and then... Or you're gonna be high forever. Like, I don't understand what happened.
Alright. This is upset...
And I think more... I think they're both concerning things to take into your thought process in delivering boluses. And one being your... You could have the opportunity to go low Mhmm. From thinking, well, it's a lot of carb.
I need to take my insulin and hit this. Right?
Yeah.
But on the opposite then, let's say you don't go low, but you end up getting hit with the high. This is... It could be a very sticky high.
Oh, yeah. For
hours. Hours and hours and hours, you are going to be hitting this with extra insulin Mhmm. To try to move it. And, you know, the more insulin you add, the more lingering kind of drawn out you end up getting. At some point, you could possibly go low.
Yeah. Okay. And, you know, sometimes I actually say a meal like this might be the place where the end result of all the extra insulin, you may put on a temporary target that maybe it's not as low as you'd like your algorithm to, like, get you to. Right? If you can change it in your particular algorithm system.
But you can safeguard yourself on the back end by saying, yeah. I don't usually wanna sit at 01:10 or 01:20 or 01:30.
Mhmm.
But there's a lot rolling here, and I'd be happy if I landed here and I wasn't 02:20 and I wasn't fifty.
Yeah.
Right? Just because the... This type of a meal that we're talking about is clearly... This is like a vacation meal. Yeah.
I don't know who eats like this usually, but
I don't have I don't have enough time to make this food. Let me roll this into the thought process before we move to the cheese curds. Okay. A mojito has 11 grams of carbs in it. A 12 ounce can of Coca Cola, for all of you who are like, I don't wanna drink the chemicals in Diet Coke, that one has 39 grams of carbs in it.
Drinks nobody counted38:39
So Mhmm. If you had two Cokes on top of this or a couple of drinks or whatever, again, more more carbs. Now let's jump forward to these godforsaken cheese curds that that you've brought up. Cheese curds are what... Are are are they just mozzarella sticks?
Back to the cheese curds38:56
Is that what you're telling me?
No. No. No. No. No.
You should see how offended you are.
I'm not offended. Like, there's just a defining flavor difference between a mozzarella stick and a cheese curd.
Okay.
I don't I don't know why.
I argue with that. I
There just is. One being that typically mozzarella sticks are mozzarella Mhmm. Which is a milder cheese in general.
Okay.
Cheese curds are cheddar. And some places will fancy it up and do it with... But cheese curds are cheddar cheese.
Okay.
And so there's a difference in flavor there. And then depending on the restaurant you go to, the breading may be really, really, like, deep fried and not crumbly. It might be more of, a coated kind of topping or kind of outer, and some is a little bit more crumbly almost and might actually be a drier type of cheese curds.
Okay.
That typically is my preference. I don't like the ones that when you bite into it, like, grease squirts out of it.
I can't... Can I tell you as I get older, I can't do grease at all?
It's just...
I just... I can't. Beer battered
cheese A
pound of beer battered cheese curds.
That's Beer batter?
That's what... That's the recipe I have here. It says it serves four people. A pound of fresh white cheddar cheese curds. Okay.
One cup of all purpose flour and a half a cup more for dredging, a teaspoon of baking powder, a half a teaspoon of salt, and garlic powder each, one large egg, three quarters a cup of cold lager, and neutral oil for frying. The way this breaks down here, it says the cheese curds are two grams of carbs, 28 protein, 37 fat. This is for, you know, four ounces. The beer batter as adhered, 29 carbs, five protein, two fat. Frying, you're gonna get 18 grams of the absorption from frying.
That always turns me off of deep frying whenever someone says that to me because if we put that into cups, it would just horrify you. So per serving, you're looking at 31 grams of carbs, 33 protein, 57 fat. If you were to eat the entire batch just for edification, one twenty five, one thirty three protein, 226 fat. But let's just go with one and say 31
give you an easy carb count for fried food?
Go ahead.
And this is just carbs. It's not the fats and the proteins. In general, the size of a thumb is about three grams of carb for fried foods.
Okay. Chicken finger, anything like that?
Any... So... Yep. And chicken fingers might be bigger, but you can judge that based on the length of your thumb. Mhmm.
It's about three grams for that thumb. Okay. So... Yeah. So per cheese curd, In general, two or three grams per cheese curd.
Let's do something fun here at the end, Jenny. Cool. What's your carb ratio?
My insulin to carb ratio? What... Well, this is gonna be more like a dinner meal. Right? This isn't like...
Pretend you're eating this. This is dinner tonight. What's your carb ratio for this?
So my insulin to carb ratio at dinner is 12.
And your sensitivity on this?
Yeah. My sensitivity with my algorithm is 85.
85. Let's definitely call your target 80 because I assume that's what you're targeting on your algorithm. And... Alright. Let's put in the whole meal.
You eat the cheese curds. You eat the crab cake plate. You eat the Cubana.
Oh my god.
Stop it. You're gonna eat the whole thing. You're gonna eat the key lime pie. Jenny hasn't eaten this much food in twelve years. And, it's gonna be 235 carbs, a 143 protein, and 207 grams of fat.
You're making me sweat. No.
I'm just kidding. Limit has reached calculation requirement exceeds your calculation cap. So I've built I've built a safety into the... Even into the estimator tool that won't give you the answer over 25 units.
Like, no. No. No. No. Please don't
eat this. That's what he's saying. Rethink your life, but it comes close. Okay? But but the total would be 29.8 units for you of insulin total.
It it won't break it down for you that way. I can, let me steal out some of the carbs and see if I can get it to give us a a number. I'll put it to 200 carbs. No. I'll...
Well, hold on. I'll take it... Make it one eighty fat and see if that'll do it. Nope. I'll take out 40 of the protein.
Let's see what happens. No. It still won't say. One more thing. I'll take out 10 more carbs.
One nine hundred ninety carbs. Okay. If, Jenny, if you were to eat a 190 carbs, a 180 grams of, fat, and a 100 grams of protein, you would need 16 units upfront and almost eight and a half over the next eight hours for just about 25 units.
Mhmm.
Yeah. Okay. And I assume you would... Probably not need for a week after that, but, I don't know. I...
This is it. This... So does this does this work for you? Do you think we can do this one safe?
No. This is fantastic. Okay. And a lot of fun too because I think I think what you get with interaction of somebody discussing something like this
is
more... I think it gives you pause.
Yeah.
Right? It gives you pause to say, well, goodness. I... Maybe you are an under counter consistently. Right?
And are always on the side of cautionary use of insulin. Even though your brain is like, no. It's probably more than that, but I'm gonna not count that much because that's a lot of insulin. Right? But when you hear it from somebody that's not your brain thinking through it, it makes you consider, oh, like, the wow factor is there.
What the stage version will be45:12
Yeah. And then hopefully, people would go forward and maybe even consider more things like this with a little bit more precision and consideration.
And I would just like it if you realize that the fat and the protein had an impact on your blood sugar. That'd be great.
Mhmm.
Yeah. So Yeah. Because, honestly, you take any number... Like, just take this. It's a...
Hold on. I shouldn't have... I closed the thing. Give me a second. Do you have to go?
I'm sorry.
No. Nope. I've got about ten minutes.
I'll look
at you.
Look at you. I'm gonna go back for a second with your settings and look at that whole total of 239 carbs and just put it in as 239 carbs.
Mhmm.
It's nineteen point nine units of insulin, which is... You know, it's not insignificant, but that's not my point. My point is is that it doesn't it doesn't tell you that you're gonna need insulin past the first bolus.
No.
And it... It's eliminating six units of your need, which is a quarter of the insulin that you bolus. Like, you're you're deficient. 25% of your bolus right there. And then you know what's gonna happen after this.
You're gonna... I'll put it in percent. I'll put it in a unit. I'll wait. It's not working.
Maybe unit. Like, you you know, and you unit it to death all day and all night, then one... At some point, you're gonna get frustrated, and you're gonna rage bolus it just as all that cheese curd gets out of your system and, woo, you're gonna get low. And then you're back, I don't know what happened. I ate...
I couldn't get my blood sugar to come back up. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And so just do it right. Do do it the first time. Do it right.
Don't give yourself all these problems, etcetera.
Well... It boils down to in our world today. To me, it comes to the fact that we have tools to actually access the information. Years ago, if I was even going to eat this when I was younger and my parents were trying
Yeah.
It... There was there was no tool outside of, like, books that my mom carried around with us to look things up in. I'm quite sure that it didn't have a Cubano sandwich. And
break it down in pork and be as right as it was on... Listen. I'll I'll tell you too. I don't know if this is perfect. This is...
I... But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's gotta be better than your ass guessing in the middle of the restaurant, and it's close. Right? And it's just gonna get better over time. And and you'd be shocked at how little direction I gave it to get back what we...
Like, let me... If you have a second, like, let me Sure. Let me go through it with people. I am Justin Claude on the desktop. Okay?
I'm gonna need the nutritional breakdown that includes fat, protein, and carbs. And then I just put cheese curds, crab cakes with all the sides, Cubana sandwich, and key lime pie pie. It came back and asked me, what sides would you like on the crab cakes? And I said, oh, let's do fries and coleslaw. And it said, what portion do you wanna talk about?
I said, restaurant. Then it gave me back a ton of information that I asked for. And then I said, okay. Now give me the key lime pie as a recipe with neutral... With the nutritional facts that I stated earlier.
It did that. And then I said meringue topping. That's all I said, and it added the meringue topping. I said, Cubana next breakdown. It gave it to me.
I said crab cakes and sides next. It gave that. And then I said cheese curds next. It gave that. Mojito and 12 ounce can of Coke was the thing that popped into my head that I wasn't even thinking about.
I typed it in while you were doing that. It popped in. That's all I typed in to get all the information that we got back. Mhmm. So, I mean, it's no...
There... At this point, you you can do better than... I don't know. If if you... That's five seconds worth of effort right there.
Correct. Same the afternoon. The majority of people of all walks of life are walking around with a computer in your pocket.
Yeah.
Make use of it.
That's it. You know
what I You get... What is it? Eight seconds? No. Six seconds is the scroll amount of time somebody will look at something.
Is that right?
Jenny and I were talking about, my frustration about social media before we got on. And the the... I was talking about how hard it is to get information like this out into the world when the average time someone stays on a reel on Instagram is six seconds. And the average TikTok is looked at for three point seven five seconds. And people are like, well, put your information on social media so people can get it.
They're not gonna get it.
Like Doesn't get seen.
Yeah. People listening to this are gonna hear. And, otherwise, whatever you're gonna see on social media is not gonna meaningfully help you. But point being
Mike's... Right.
Wrapping up50:00
Six seconds at a time for an hour, just take eight seconds of that out of there and go find out how many carbs are in your... I don't know. What are we saying, though? How many carbs are in your meals so you don't ruin your whole afternoon so you have more time to scroll? I don't know.
Whatever. Like like, just Or
do you have more time to enjoy what you really wanna be enjoying and not having to have that piece of diabetes, you know
In your head.
That a lot of peep... It's it's not gonna have to be in your head.
Yeah. You don't have to fight with your meal all afternoon. And then Right. And while you're fighting with it, just dread eating again because you feel like it's gonna happen again. Anyway, check out the pro tip series or the bowl beginning series if you'd like to learn more.
Even the small sip series should help you with all this. Juiceboxpodcast.com. Everything's right there. That's been Jenny Smith. I'm Scott.
We're out of here.
Thank you.
Bye. Heck of an episode today, wouldn't you say? Let's thank Dexcom and the Omnipod five for sponsoring. That's right, my friends. We were sponsored today by the Dexcom gseven.
Dexcom.com/juicebox. Head over there right now. Look into that fifteen day Dexcom g seven. Fifteen days is a long time. It's like half a month.
Don't check my math, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. And let's also thank the Omnipod five. My goodness gracious. Omnipod five tubeless. That beautiful algorithm's updated now with that new 100 target.
Get in there. Find out more about it. Omnipod.com/juicebox. You want some tubeless insulin pumping? Yeah.
You do. By any chance, have you tried the small sip series? It's curated takeaways from the juice box podcast voted on by listeners as the most helpful insights for managing their diabetes. These bite sized pieces of wisdom cover essential topics like insulin timing, carb management, and balancing highs and lows, making it easier for you to incorporate real life strategies into your daily routine. Take a deep dive, take a sip, and discover what our community finds most valuable on the journey to better diabetes management.
For more information on small sips, go to juiceboxpodcast.com and then go... Oh, actually, we changed the website. Let me see. Go to juiceboxpodcast.com. And from there, there's these two little lines on the right side top.
That's the menu. Then click that, then click series, then there's pro... There's small sips right there, pro tips top, all beginnings, bolus four, asks that. There's a lot of them there. There's actually a little search there too.
Could you just type small sips into the search? Oh, wow. That search works great. Look at that. And then you could go right to, like, all results for small sips.
Oh, and that takes you to the FAQ. You should check out the FAQ page too. I think that's juiceboxpodcast.com/jbfaq. Seriously, that thing's amazing. Actually, the whole website is...
I mean, have you, like, seen it? You should you should go check out the website. The website rocks. It is a potpourri, a never ending cornucopia of support for you and your diabetes journey. That's right.
It really is. What else we got over here? Oh, I don't like the way that works. I'm gonna fix that. Note to self.
Change the change the masthead on the frequently asked questions page. Yeah. I don't like that. Fix that. Oh, Claude.
Oh, hell. I forgot to say thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back again very, very soon. What is that noise?
Stop it. Stop. Can you hear that? My chameleon squeaking. Are you squeaking?
What are you rubbing the branch against the... Don't tell people I have reptiles. They'll think I'm weird. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Look at me. Get all deep in there with another episode of the juice box podcast. You can hear it. What was that? Oh, I'm getting alarms and alerts on my phone.
I was gonna get real deep and tell you about the juice box podcast.
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