#1847 Power of PACEs: Emotional Safety, Belonging, and Unconditional Love
In the final PACEs episode, Scott and Erika detail how emotional safety, connection, unconditional love, and purpose foster lasting resilience and offset early adversity.
Companies that Support Juicebox
Key Takeaways
- Emotional Safety is Foundational: Allowing children to express negative emotions—like hating diabetes—without judgment builds trust and long-term resilience.
- Connection Offsets Adversity: A sense of belonging, both within the family unit and through outside mentors or activities, serves as a powerful protective layer against childhood trauma.
- Love Must Be Unconditional: Separating a child's worth from their performance, behavior, or diabetes numbers ensures they feel fundamentally safe and supported at home.
- The Power of Purpose: Having a meaningful goal or hobby gives children direction and a sense of community, which is crucial for building coping skills.
- Model Healthy Rest: Learning to rest and care for your body without guilt teaches children that it is okay to prioritize well-being over perfectionism.
Resources Mentioned
- Erika Forsyth, MFT: erikaforsyth.com
- Dexcom G7: dexcom.com/juicebox
- Omnipod 5: omnipod.com/juicebox
- Cozy Earth (Use code JUICE BOX for 20% off): cozyearth.com
- Juice Cruise 2026: juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise
- Wrong Way Recording: wrongwayrecording.com
- Juicebox Podcast Private Facebook Group
Introduction & The PACES Series
Scott Benner Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast. (0:15) Hey, friends. (0:16) Welcome back to the Paces series. (0:17) Today is the fourth and final episode. (0:20) Over this series, we've talked about adversity, protective relationships, and the environments that help people grow stronger.
Scott Benner The big takeaway from all this research is hopeful. (0:29) The brain is shaped by experiences, but it's also capable of healing and adapting. (0:34) In this final episode, Eric and I will pull the ideas together and talk about what truly builds resilience, emotional safety, belonging, purpose, community, and the everyday experiences that help people living with diabetes feel supported, capable, and not alone. (0:51) If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. (0:57) Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes.
Scott Benner But everybody is welcome. (1:02) Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. (1:06) If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. (1:16) Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:21) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.
Scott Benner The episode you're about to enjoy was brought to you by Dexcom, the Dexcom g seven, the same CGM that my daughter wears. (1:38) You can learn more and get started today at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox. (1:44) Today's episode is also sponsored by the Omnipod five. (1:48) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free what'd I just say? (1:56) A free Omnipod five starter kit.
Scott Benner Free? (2:00) Get out of here. (2:01) Go click on that link. (2:02) Omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:04) Check it out.
Scott Benner Terms and conditions apply. (2:06) Eligibility may vary. (2:08) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:13) Links in the show notes. (2:14) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com.
Scott Benner The podcast is also sponsored today by Cozy Earth. (2:21) You can use my offer code juice box at checkout to save 20% off of your entire order at cozyearth.com. (2:29) Everything from the joggers that I'm actually wearing right now to the sheets I sleep on, the towels I use to dry myself with, and whatever else is available at cozyearth.com. (2:40) Just use the offer code juice box at checkout. (2:43) Erica, we are back to do the last little bit of I don't even have a name for this series yet as we're recording it.
Scott Benner Is it what do you what what do you think we should call it?
Erika Forsyth I think we should call it the the PACE series.
Scott Benner Okay.
Erika Forsyth P a c e or the PACES series.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth Alright. (3:01) And that's really exciting.
Scott Benner Listen. (3:04) It just needs a name that makes sense.
Erika Forsyth Okay.
Scott Benner This is kind of a wrap up episode. (3:08) It'll be probably much shorter than the other ones are, but it still has a lot of it it's not a wrap up of, you know, just like we're not just gonna say the things we said over again. (3:17) There's a a good bit of information we're gonna talk about, kind of the opposite of the ACEs testing. (3:23) Probably a good time to remind people in case they find this episode without having the whole series is that and a number of months ago, I found myself just wondering, you know, there's these this test, right, that people take that and I don't know what to even call it. (3:37) I still don't.
Scott Benner Even after talking about all this, is it a predictor? (3:40) Is it how do
Erika Forsyth you The assessment. (3:43) ACE assessment?
Scott Benner Yeah. (3:45) The yeah. (3:45) Do you take that assessment?
Erika Forsyth ACE test. (3:47) Mhmm.
Scott Benner Right. (3:48) And the questions are, you know, did you, then an adult often swear at you, insult you, humiliate you? (3:54) Like, there's like it's like a 10 part test. (3:57) And Mhmm. (3:58) You told me about it years ago, and the the more of these things that happen to a person I don't know how to finish that sentence though.
Scott Benner Like, the more things on that test that you can say yes to, the what. (4:09) Like, how does that is it a a one to one transfer of that or not particularly?
Erika Forsyth There's an increased likelihood of having various challenges, whether it's mental health challenges, relational, professional. (4:29) So you have an increased likelihood of because of your of your past experiences, the trauma that you experienced from those increase the likelihood kind of not not of it's not predictive, but increases the likelihood of having various challenges.
Scott Benner Even medical some medical conditions.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (4:50) Yes.
Scott Benner Which is Mhmm. (4:52) I mean, both seems insane and makes sense. (4:55) You know? (4:55) Mhmm. (4:56) I've been really, I don't know, enamored with this idea since you and I talked about it the very first time.
Scott Benner Yes. (5:03) And I found myself thinking, you know, recently, this is how this all started. (5:08) I wonder if there are things that happen to people that are, you know, predictive of fewer problems or even if they can be, I don't know, helpful if you have some on the bad side and some on the good side. (5:20) Like, do they balance out somehow? (5:21) And I it's funny because just before we started recording, I still said I don't know how to talk about this well.
Scott Benner And then I I started to say, and I we hit records that I could say it here. (5:31) It almost feels to me like you're wearing a suit of armor with 10 layers on it. (5:35) Right? (5:36) And 10 layers gets you through life pretty well. (5:39) But did an adult often swear you insult you or humiliate you?
Scott Benner Yes. (5:43) Now I have nine layers of armor. (5:45) And I know this isn't exactly perfect, but, like, it's the way it manifests in my brain when we talk about it over and over again. (5:52) So do you lose three layers? (5:54) And then on the other side, do you gain a couple back?
Scott Benner You know? (5:57) And I started to say to you, like, since, you know, since this has been going on for me, you know, this wonderment about this, I bring it up a lot when I'm recording with people. (6:07) Like, I'll say to them, have you ever heard of the, you know, the ACES test? (6:11) And they'll say yes or no or whatever, and then we'll do it live while we're recording. (6:16) And the people who seem like they're doing well, even though they've had a lot of those ACES things happen to them, are also reporting a lot of the positive stuff too.
Scott Benner Just, you know, like, I was involved in community events. (6:32) I, you know, I took you know, I did I felt like there were two adults who had my back, like, if they weren't my parents, like, stuff like that. (6:38) And I think it's fascinating. (6:40) But moreover, aside of being fascinated by it, I think it's good for people who are raising children to hear because maybe your life's not perfect or you can't do everything right or there's been somebody in your life has, you know, created a a tornado and you and and now it's part of who you are. (6:57) Here are some other things maybe you could do to offset that.
Scott Benner And, that's what we're gonna talk about today is that that kind of thing. (7:04) Make sense?
Erika Forsyth Yes. (7:06) And that's a great summary and explanation. (7:10) And and while, yes, if you have yourself been exposed to a lot of the ACEs, what we also have discovered and talked about is that not only if if you didn't experience a lot of the protective experiences or the positive childhood experiences before 18, it's also not too late, right, to heal from some of those things by engaging in some of these protective and compensatory experiences. (7:43) So I think that's pretty hopeful and encouraging also. (7:46) So while you can be thinking and listening as a parent yourself as you're raising your child, this also hopefully instills some some hope for yourself in in your healing journey.
Scott Benner I know that the way my brain thinks about it sounds kinda negative, but I actually think of it as a really positive conversation. (8:04) Mhmm. (8:04) I also wanna point out to people, this doesn't mean you can backhand your kid then take them to the fair and go, it's alright. (8:09) I I counterbalanced it with that. (8:11) Don't worry.
Scott Benner You know, I guess, Erica, like, I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of people and talked to them about how they've grown up. (8:18) And some people are just in situations and more people than you would would believe if you're out there listening to this sometimes, they're in situations not of their own making that have adverse reactions, you know, and and impacts on their lives, and it's there's nothing you can do about it. (8:33) You're nine years old. (8:34) You can't do anything about your dad going to jail, but turns out that's one of the things. (8:38) You know?
Scott Benner But the people behind, like you said, they can, you know, they can help to impact things the other way. (8:45) And I also think if you're an adult and you look back and you're like, you know, I do have some dysregulation issues and, you know, I do have a lot of things on that list. (8:55) I hope that they understand that it doesn't have to stay like that. (8:59) You know, like, there maybe are things you could do to put some more layers of that armor back on again, maybe. (9:05) There's seven is that right?
Scott Benner There's seven or eight positive childhood experiences. (9:13) Is that right?
Erika Forsyth There are let's see. (9:17) Yeah. (9:17) We talked about them
Scott Benner in the last
Erika Forsyth two episodes.
Scott Benner Yeah. (9:20) Yeah. (9:20) Feeling able to talk to family about feelings, feeling supported by family during difficult times, enjoying participating in community traditions, feeling a sense of belonging in school, feeling supported by friends, having at least one non parent adult who took a genuine interest in you, feeling safe and protected by an adult at home. (9:39) It's kind of interesting because I've gone through this with people who have said that they had a negative experience by not feeling safe at home, but also could report that they had an adult at home that they felt safe with. (9:52) So all the adults in the house weren't not safe to them.
Emotional Safety and Support
Scott Benner Let's just go through the things that that we have here and and give people some ideas about what they can do maybe to build a happy home for themselves and maybe off put offset some of this other stuff. (10:07) You wanna go?
Erika Forsyth Yes. (10:08) Okay. (10:09) So, and this will maybe feel a little bit like a review, but we thought this was a nice cohesive list and, to address. (10:19) And
Scott Benner yeah. (10:20) Yeah. (10:20) If you heard the first three and you're in for the fourth one, we wanted to end on a a positive upswing, which will keep me from talking a lot. (10:27) Go go ahead.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (10:30) So and this is, you know, about, I like that armor analogy. (10:35) What we're ultimately talking about and that we've discussed in other series is the the sense of resilience and how does that occur even despite or because of past trauma. (10:47) Can you still build resilience? (10:49) Just I don't know if we've talked about this before, but someone asked me recently, like, how how do you define resilience?
Erika Forsyth And I probably used this definition before, but it's if you think about a blade of grass and someone steps on the grass, it might stay down for briefly, but eventually, it will come back up. (11:09) Mhmm. (11:09) And so I like just that while we're using the armor analogy, just using this visual of of the blade of grass that, yes, you you still might experience hard things, but you also can return and resume life and maybe even stronger.
Scott Benner I'd like to add on to your to your analogy for a second. (11:28) Well, that grass doesn't just stand back up. (11:30) It actually reaches for the sun. (11:32) That's what it's doing. (11:33) It's trying to get itself closer to the light.
Scott Benner Like, so it pulls itself back up reaching for the light. (11:39) So, you know, there you go.
Erika Forsyth That's good. (11:41) That's good.
Scott Benner It's true. (11:43) I think the whole world's, like, running on the same eight principles just spread out over a bunch of different categories, but that's neither here nor there.
Erika Forsyth So Okay. (11:50) Here we go. (11:50) Okay. (11:51) The first one, emotional safety and support. (11:56) So you feel safe most of the time, you know, expressing your emotions without fear or shame that you aren't worried about getting in trouble if you are happy or sad or scared.
Erika Forsyth I think that's a really important one.
Scott Benner So letting people feel free to communicate how they actually feel. (12:18) And and what? (12:18) Then not judging them in return?
Erika Forsyth Not judging them or not. (12:23) Sometimes it can be hard to hear your child express fear around something. (12:29) I mean, like, for example, diabetes or hatred towards it. (12:33) And oftentimes, we might want to say, oh, no. (12:36) But you're so strong.
Erika Forsyth It's okay. (12:38) You're gonna be okay. (12:39) I think in that moment, saying, it is it can be hard sometimes. (12:44) Mhmm. (12:44) And I get why you don't like it, or I get that you don't or you hate it.
Erika Forsyth And we're also doing these other things. (12:51) Right? (12:51) So just always providing that freedom of expression even if it triggers something with you in in you that feels scary.
Scott Benner And examine if your response is really to make them feel better or to stop you from feeling uncomfortable hearing what makes them sad. (13:08) Right?
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Scott Benner That makes sense?
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Scott Benner Yeah. (13:12) Are you trying to stop yourself from feeling uncomfortable or are you trying to help them with your response?
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner And understanding that you can't you probably can't really help them, like, flip a switch and fix it. (13:24) And the thing that helps people most is just letting them express themselves, let them feel heard, and then what you mirror back to them what they've said so they know you heard them.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (13:36) That's reflective listening. (13:37) That's good.
Scott Benner I know what it is. (13:38) Don't worry. (13:38) I just you you talk me. (13:40) I'm saying it for the others. (13:42) I I Yes.
Scott Benner So listen with empathy and and be consistent with that. (13:47) What do you think that means? (13:48) Be consistent. (13:49) It means, like, let them feel like when they come to you, you're always going to be about in the same modulation. (13:57) Right?
Scott Benner Like, you're not gonna be flipping out one time and super calm the next time. (14:02) That is that the idea?
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Erika Forsyth That would be the idea. (16:19) Although, in reality, I'm just even you know, that is probably hard to always be a safe
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth You know, objective, calm listener, and that's that's that's called a therapist, hopefully.
Scott Benner Erica's like Erica's like, can't even do that for my own kids. (16:34) You want me to tell them to do it for for their kids?
Erika Forsyth I mean, it's hard to show up and be, like, just calm and invalidated. (16:41) It is it's impossible to do that all the time, but I think they know, particularly when they risk being vulnerable with you, and you can just even reflect back. (16:53) Like, that sounds like you're really scared.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth And you might be scared inside too. (16:58) That sounds like you're really mad. (17:00) I mean, it's it is so basic when you repeat, but that's usually all they want is to know that you heard them.
Scott Benner I will say this too. (17:08) If sometimes you try to hide how you feel or whatnot, but I don't think you can do that from my own personal experience. (17:13) Like, somebody's gonna come to you with a need at some point when you're tired or feeling crappy or whatever. (17:18) Mhmm. (17:19) And I think that people can tell your intent.
Scott Benner So if you're generally a good, well meaning person in this relationship and they catch you on a bad day, I don't think they're gonna just judge you on that bad day. (17:32) And even if you're trying, but it's not coming off well, maybe not in the moment, but I think over time, cumulatively, I think people understand your intent. (17:40) So, you know Yes. (17:42) Okay. (17:42) What's this other one?
Erika Forsyth And there's always space to repair and apologize.
Scott Benner Absolutely. (17:46) Yeah. (17:47) You know, nothing is like, nothing you do is the end. (17:50) Like, you can Mhmm. (17:51) You can always try again.
Scott Benner You have at least one adult oh, this one here. (17:55) Do you have at least one adult, past or present, who made you feel protected, seen, and valued? (18:00) So you can be that person for children in your family and in your home
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner Is is the point.
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Connection and Belonging
Scott Benner Number two here, connection and belonging. (18:09) Tell me about that, please.
Erika Forsyth So everyone wants to belong. (18:13) Right? (18:14) That is such a part of our human nature because we feel safe and seen. (18:19) And so this is an important part of developing resilience and health is feeling like you belong, whether it's in your family of origin, your community, your friends, your sports, your activities, that you have, you know, affinity groups. (18:36) I think that's why there there's so many different ages and stages of of groups for people with diabetes out there.
Erika Forsyth Because even though we all have diabetes, we might even feel more connected in a group that's for our age or or your orientation or whatever it may be. (18:53) Everyone wants to feel like they are seen and they belong.
Scott Benner Right. (18:57) We've all met people who felt like they were on the outside in their family growing up. (19:02) And then you talk to their parents, their parents don't know what they're talking about. (19:05) And nobody seems to be a bad actor in this scenario. (19:09) It could be either, I guess, right, that the parents weren't as inclusive as they thought they were and or the kid wasn't as available to what was being offered to them as they could have been.
Scott Benner Is it like, it's such a sad thing when you see it happen.
Erika Forsyth I I would go back. (19:26) I wonder how safe that if the child is feeling excluded and, you know, how safe do they feel to communicate their feelings? (19:34) Yeah. (19:35) Like, what is what is the the sense of safety around expression of emotion? (19:41) Sometimes those might go hand in hand.
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Erika Forsyth Yeah. (20:51) I mean, yes. (20:51) I would say being aware if if we're talking about, you know, younger children, making it safe to express how you're feeling and to ensure that people in your family unit feel seen
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth And safe and that they belong. (21:06) Yes. (21:07) I mean, again, depending on what age we're talking about. (21:10) But for yes. (21:10) Young children, teens, for sure.
Scott Benner Yeah. (21:13) Are there people who just don't like their kids?
Erika Forsyth I mean, do you like your kids all the time?
Scott Benner No. (21:19) I don't mean like that. (21:20) I mean, like well, I, you know, I use the same example over and over again, but I know people who got pregnant and didn't mean to, and then their lives didn't go the way they thought. (21:31) And I can see them taking it out on the kid who was born from that pregnancy. (21:36) Like, they seem mad at them.
Scott Benner I love you and you're awesome and all that stuff, but you are the reason why I'm not where I wanna be or x y z or something like that. (21:45) I I don't know. (21:46) I've just I've seen that more than once for sure. (21:48) And and what are supposed to do about that if you're a kid? (21:50) You know?
Scott Benner How are explaining that to anybody? (21:54) I told you I'd make this sad.
Erika Forsyth I that's I've that that is a complicated complicated scenario, scenario, Scott. (21:59) Scott.
Scott Benner I think I would I'll just bring it up so that people listening can know if there's something you could be broadcasting that back to your kids and not know it. (22:09) Yeah. (22:09) And if that if you have any inkling like that might be you, go find a therapist is what I'm saying. (22:14) Anyway, let's get through this list.
Erika Forsyth Yeah. (22:16) It's positive. (22:17) List. (22:17) Okay. (22:17) A
Scott Benner positive experience. (22:19) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (22:21) And then with this this section of connection and belonging, like we've discussed before, important that you feel you receive care and attention and security from other people outside of your family. (22:33) So right? (22:33) So not only do you feel the connection inside, but also from your teachers or your coaches, community members, your neighbors Mhmm. (22:41) Mentors, things like that.
Love and Stability at Home
Scott Benner Nice. (22:43) Okay. (22:44) Number three, love and stability at home.
Erika Forsyth So home feels having a safe home, it feels not only, you know, emotionally safe, but also physically. (22:55) And we've we've discussed this in the last two episodes about having the predictable routines, the the actual physical affection and connection and an eye contact and touch, and that it can be upon receiving and seeing one another, you know, very it's just it's quality, not quantity of time.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth And we talked and then about the forgiveness of repair when things don't go always as smoothly as you want.
Scott Benner You just let it go. (23:23) Family members support each other in hard times, and love isn't conditional on performance or perfection. (23:30) That's the rest of that. (23:31) What's a common way that that the conditional love rears its head? (23:37) Like, what would that look like practically?
Erika Forsyth I well, I think, certainly, with the and we could talk about blood sugars, but I could see it pop up in other areas such as, you know, your academic performance, your athletic or extracurricular performance? (23:54) Do you feel, as a child, do you experience like you're only gonna be loved if you get certain grades or if you, you know, perform in a certain way, or even inside the home, how are you acting, you know, your behavior? (24:10) Obviously, you want to encourage kindness and, you know, respect, but is if the child presents as being a child sometimes. (24:21) You know, like, let's say a a child shows up in there, they are having a tantrum. (24:25) They are being a kid for whatever reason, or they're having a low blood sugar or a high blood sugar, being mindful that the child knows they are loved no matter what
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth Is really important, but also really hard concept because they also still need to be, you know, redirected and disciplined and shaped. (24:47) And oftentimes, I know this can get really blurry around discipline, but also feeling guilty or badly about blood sugars and having diabetes. (24:57) You know, that there's it's hard to navigate those areas.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth But that your child feels unconditionally loved and supported is is so important.
Scott Benner So for people who are hearing that and thinking, like, yeah, you're gonna make these kids soft, why is that not the case? (25:14) Why is kindness and empathy and respect not a pathway to, you know, the things that people are scared about if they're not tough on their kids?
Erika Forsyth Well, I think what if we're hearing some of those words and going to the extreme of just, you know, letting kids rule the house, that's not necessarily what we're talking about. (25:35) Right? (25:35) Like, I think there is a line of having household rules and expectations and boundaries and having space for for grace and empathy and validation.
Scott Benner But it's a is it a movement Yes. (25:53) Of parenting movement? (25:55) Yes. (25:55) Well, I'll tell you why
Erika Forsyth talked you about it in the parenting series.
Scott Benner That's fine. (25:58) When you you think about it for a second, I'll tell you what I've done is I've set a line out in the distance, and they all know as long as we're playing on that on this side of the line, everything's gonna be fine. (26:10) But there's a different me that they don't a 100% know. (26:13) We don't wanna cross over the fence to the other side and meet that guy. (26:17) My kids have been very good about that.
Scott Benner I don't think I've, you know, yelled at my children in fifteen years. (26:23) Do you know what I mean? (26:24) Like but there was there's a couple moments where something happened. (26:27) I was like, we made rules. (26:28) You broke the rules.
Scott Benner There's you know, you're gonna go sit in your room for a terrible amount of time, you know, staring at a wall or, you know, that kind of stuff. (26:36) Like, you know, there's been some there's some punitive action from me about that. (26:40) I've always thought growing up that they knew it. (26:42) Now that they're adults, we talked about I forgot what you're talking about, but Arden's like, oh, I never would have done that growing up. (26:47) I think she was talking with her friends.
Scott Benner And her friend said, why? (26:50) And she said, I think my dad would have killed me. (26:52) And, like, I but I've never, like, expressed that. (26:55) But I did give her enough of, like, we should live on this side and happy side over here, and I'm happy to live over here with happy side. (27:03) But let's not go over here and find out what happens over here.
Scott Benner I don't know. (27:07) Like, maybe I got lucky. (27:08) Maybe it just worked and, you know, or whatever. (27:10) But, anyway, what's the soft pairing called? (27:12) What what makes no place?
Erika Forsyth I I once started listening to your story. (27:16) I wanted to be attentive. (27:16) So I but it's in our parenting series.
Scott Benner Erica is so polite. (27:20) I spoke about something so she could go look into something. (27:23) She goes, well, I wanted to be attentive while you're speaking. (27:26) Why? (27:26) You you must be such a good therapist.
Scott Benner Well I mean, I'm healthier since I met you, so I guess it's I I guess I am. (27:33) Anyway, let's go into four. (27:35) Purpose and meaning. (27:35) Okay. (27:35) Yeah.
Purpose and Meaning
Scott Benner We'll move on. (27:36) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (27:37) So number where are we? (27:40) Number four. (27:41) Purpose and meaning, having something to care about, having a sense of purpose, having a sense of, you know, why are we doing this, whether it's your kind of your beliefs, your goals in life. (27:54) And I think that's really important.
Erika Forsyth We talked about this too around outside of diabetes, it's also important to have purpose and meaning.
Scott Benner Yeah. (28:03) So it doesn't matter even, like, if the thing I have purp I find purpose with when I'm eight years old is not the same thing as when I'm 14. (28:10) It's not the same thing as when I'm 18. (28:12) As long as that when I'm up and moving during the day, I have a goal. (28:15) I'm oriented towards that goal.
Scott Benner It makes me feel like I'm something. (28:20) Right? (28:20) Meaningful, like, working towards something.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (28:24) And and in that per in the action of that, you are gonna be experiencing belonging. (28:30) Right? (28:30) Because you're working along other groups or members of a group who are all wanting the same goal or outcome, and I think that's important.
Scott Benner Let's say your kid picks blue nail polish and some weird comic books and but they've got a bunch of friends who like it too. (28:48) Like, you should just be happy that they have that. (28:50) Right? (28:50) Like, that there's a thing they enjoy that's even if that thing is something that you look at and go, oh, this is not what I had in mind. (28:58) But they still they have friendship and they have community and they have a sense of belonging and something they feel focused on.
Scott Benner Like, I would think you should be happy for that.
Erika Forsyth Yes. (29:07) And I think it's I don't wanna say you should, but I think to look at it, like, does your child feel safe? (29:14) Does your child feel like he's he's a part of something bigger?
Scott Benner Yeah. (29:18) I don't mean them and the kids. (29:19) Yeah. (29:19) I don't mean they're, like, sacrificing a goat or anything like that. (29:22) I mean, they just they they're doing something that's different than your idea of what would be fun.
Scott Benner Like, for example, what if my children would have wanted to play soccer? (29:31) What a scourge that would have been on my life, Erica. (29:34) Okay? (29:35) But I would have showed up at that soccer field and watched that dumb game that's meaningless and and ends one nothing or zero zero. (29:42) I would have done that.
Scott Benner Okay? (29:44) Now God bless them. (29:45) They love baseball, so they saved me. (29:47) But no. (29:48) But seriously, like, you know, I've known people, good parents sitting at baseball fields who don't give a shit about baseball.
Scott Benner They hate it, and they're cheering louder than anybody else. (30:00) They don't complain. (30:00) I don't think their kid would even know they don't like baseball. (30:03) Again, I've seen I've seen good parents do that. (30:05) And I I'm trying to say to you that if one of my kids would have made the horrifying decision to play soccer, that I would have been that person who would have clapped and said that was good.
Scott Benner I would have learned what all the dumb little things meant, I would have acted excited at the end of a game when it was zero zero. (30:19) Okay? (30:19) I would have talked about the great defense and the hustle and everything else even though inside of my brain, my adult mind would have known we've wasted our time with this stupid game.
Erika Forsyth Oh, gosh. (30:30) You're gonna get some feedback around soccer.
Scott Benner I just like screwing with the people who like soccer. (30:33) That's all. (30:34) Good.
Erika Forsyth Well, I think the what what what it is is you might experience some either grief or loss I would. (30:41) Or or confusion within yourself that your child is choosing to do something or believe in something or participate in something that is not in alignment of your own desires. (30:51) So I think it's okay to acknowledge that, but then also championing championing their heart's desire is a beautiful thing.
Scott Benner Can I pick your rein? (31:00) Take a slight left turn on something I know you didn't think we'd talk about today?
Erika Forsyth Uh-huh. (31:05) Maybe.
Scott Benner I think it's apropos of time. (31:07) Right? (31:08) Mhmm. (31:08) What do I do if my kid picks a different political leaning than I have in the house? (31:16) How do I not end up where we just all don't like each other anymore?
Scott Benner That seems to be a big deal nowadays. (31:23) So, like Mhmm. (31:24) I'm sure in the past as well. (31:25) I think we're going over the answers. (31:27) The answers are you think one way, they think another way, they're happy, be happy that they're happy.
Scott Benner But what happens when one side of the coin believes that the other side is making an existential mistake? (31:38) How do you do that as a parent then?
Erika Forsyth That's complicated. (31:41) I think what what you would want what I would want my children to be are critical thinkers, whether we're talking about, you know, politics or any other, quote, unquote, maybe controversial Yeah. (31:54) Subject, teaching your child to be a critical thinker and consumer of information and processing what matters to them, how do they believe change happens, what is valuable, those types of questions. (32:10) And they might land in a different political area arena. (32:14) They might land in a different, you know, faith.
Erika Forsyth If you are concerned about that, I think the the best thing you could do is yeah. (32:20) The I I kind of land on the the critical thinker piece, but that might feel like an easy answer out. (32:26) I don't know. (32:26) Yeah.
Scott Benner Well, listen. (32:27) What if what if, Erica? (32:29) What if I'm a big dumbass? (32:30) Okay? (32:31) And my kid's right, and I can't see it.
Scott Benner And I'm telling them, no. (32:35) You gotta be a critical thinker and figure this out. (32:37) And they don't come up with the answer that I come up with, then I think they didn't think about it correctly.
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner This is a big problem in parenting as kids get older. (32:47) And I I and you see it the other way too. (32:49) Sometimes the kids will look at the parents. (32:50) They're like, they don't know what they're talking about. (32:51) Just heard a kid the other day, 21 year old kid the other day said, my parents are at the age now where I don't ask them.
Scott Benner I just tell them. (32:59) It was a simple example of, you know, we're gonna have lunch on Saturday. (33:03) Come over, pick me up at my dorm room. (33:05) And she's like, I used to ask my mom that, but it turned into, like, oh, I got a plan. (33:09) I don't know.
Scott Benner Blah blah blah. (33:10) But when the person was talking about, what they were trying to say was, like, my parents are getting older now. (33:14) They're wishy washy. (33:16) Like, they're tired. (33:17) They're not as focused.
Scott Benner They don't care as much. (33:19) I just tell them what to do now, and they follow me. (33:21) And I was like, there's something kinda like there was something sad and wonderful about it at the same time. (33:27) You know what I mean? (33:29) Like, I was like, oh, the kid thought, you know, my parents, they struggle a little bit, you know, around this one thing about making plans and going out.
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner I don't give them a choice anymore. (33:39) Just tell them where to be and what time to be there, and we and we get together. (33:42) We do not as
Erika Forsyth And that works.
Scott Benner Not that harshly, by the way. (33:45) Yeah. (33:45) But then in that same situation, what do you do if your mom's out there? (33:49) Like, you gotta vote for this person or you have to pray this way or you have to do this or you can't do that or don't say this because something's gonna happen to you. (33:57) I don't know.
Scott Benner Like, I guess I bring it up because I hear a lot of people talk about, like, it's okay to, like you can't pick your family, so it's okay to disconnect from your parents. (34:08) But that seems like the wrong thing to me. (34:10) And I'm sure for some people, it's the right thing. (34:12) And I've seen people do it, and it seems to make them happier sometimes. (34:16) But I've seen people do it, it seems to make them feel alone too.
Scott Benner And, again, I I would just roll back to thinking, if that ends up being my situation as an older person, I'm gonna try very hard to think of it as my fault. (34:30) That there was something I could have done at a formidable moment or pivotal time that would have been one of these things, allowing my kids to feel safe, to belong, and to, you know, accept them for who they are, like, that kind of thing. (34:43) So, anyway, I don't think there's really an answer in here. (34:45) I'm just talking. (34:46) Yeah.
Erika Forsyth Such a complex topic, but a good one.
Scott Benner Happens a lot, I imagine. (34:52) You talk to a lot of people who have this kind
Erika Forsyth of disconnect. (34:55) And I think that dilemma of choosing feeling like you have to make that choice of differentiating and from your family or, you know, it's kind of like you're discussing cut off completely.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Erika Forsyth What is the healthier option? (35:13) And there's no that's Yeah. (35:15) I don't know say different scenarios that it's not an easy answer, but I think that the conversation and the thought around separation, differentiation, and complete cutoff is one that does happen a lot, and it's it's not easy whatever you decide.
Scott Benner Well, I bring it up because at some point, if you're raising a child with type one or any medical issue, really, that they have to manage on their own, at some point or another, it's going to become evident that that child is probably not going to do it exactly the way you did it. (35:52) And if you see that as they're not trying hard enough or they're not doing enough or they don't care about their health, that's, I think, the wrong reaction to have. (36:01) I think it's sad to say, like, people are who they are. (36:04) Right? (36:04) You give these people, you know, pull a thousand people out, give them all diabetes.
Scott Benner They have personalities. (36:10) They have the way they think about things. (36:12) They're gonna think about their diabetes that way as well. (36:14) Like, I I use Jenny as an example all the time. (36:17) Like, Jenny's not a person who decided to have an a one c in the fives.
Scott Benner Jenny's personality and who she is leads her to that. (36:25) Like, she might not even think about it that way if you asked her about it. (36:27) She might think, oh, I make decisions because I wanna be this. (36:30) Like, I would say the same thing about somebody who gets up every day and runs or goes to the gym five times a week. (36:35) They think they're making some I think they think they're making a purposeful decision.
Scott Benner I just think that's how they're wired, and that's why it works that way. (36:43) I don't believe that there are people out there who are not trying or don't care about their health. (36:47) I just think that things occur to people the way they occur to them. (36:50) And one day, your kid's diabetes is going to occur to them the way it occurs to them. (36:54) And I think it's important not to fall into a trap of, like, of that diabetes turning into politics or religion or something like that where you look at it and go, they're not doing the right thing.
Scott Benner So, you know, I disagree with them, and they don't agree with me, so we have a rift now. (37:09) Like, it's just the saddest thing, Erica, to watch people raise little kids and to see all that, like, hope and love and joy all pulled together. (37:18) And then you stay alive for ten more years and you meet them again when they're 24 and you say, hey. (37:22) How's your mom? (37:23) I don't know.
Scott Benner I haven't talked her in a couple years. (37:25) Like, where's all that at? (37:26) Like, where was all the, oh, it's so cute. (37:29) It does that. (37:29) I think we get taller and not as cute and and then we can't just let everything go.
Resilience and Coping Skills
Scott Benner To me, my answer is none of that matters. (37:38) Like, I just think the personal stuff matters, but I think the rest of it is just extra. (37:42) I'm sorry. (37:43) I've taken this way off course. (37:44) Are we up to resilience and coping skills?
Erika Forsyth Yes. (37:48) Okay. (37:49) Oh gosh. (37:50) Okay. (37:51) And by the way, I found and slightly remembered the parenting Oh.
Erika Forsyth That you said soft serve soft parenting. (37:58) It it's gentle parenting.
Scott Benner It's called gentle parenting? (38:01) Yeah. (38:01) Which we might have you might have
Erika Forsyth even said that word. (38:03) But
Scott Benner I don't think my dad knew about that.
Erika Forsyth Gentle parenting is which, again, we, we talked about before. (38:09) I think the the trick or the dilemma with that is it often leads to, you know, parents feeling, like, full of guilt and shame because we can't be we can't be gentle.
Scott Benner All the time?
Erika Forsyth All the time. (38:22) Yeah. (38:22) Yeah.
Scott Benner Well, give me resilience and
Erika Forsyth coping skills. (38:25) Okay. (38:25) Resilience and coping. (38:27) So you have learned healthy ways to handle stress. (38:31) So we is that it's a tough one because do you learn by observation of others around you?
Erika Forsyth Maybe, but also through your life. (38:42) You've learned, okay. (38:43) This this hard thing happened kind of going back to the blade of grass. (38:47) I mean, the blade of grass, I love, like, yeah, reaching for the sun. (38:51) So you have the mindset that even though when hard things happen, I'm gonna be okay.
Erika Forsyth And it might be because of all these other things that are going on in your life. (39:02) Mhmm. (39:02) It might be that you are wired that way. (39:05) Like, resilience is is such a interesting subject because it is both and. (39:11) It is some people are wired that way, and some people have learned.
Erika Forsyth Some people have been intentional and have figured out ways to have that mindset. (39:20) Like, even when when hard things happen, life's gonna be okay. (39:24) I'm gonna be okay. (39:25) Yeah. (39:26) I'm not helpless.
Scott Benner I I don't know how to it's it probably in just an eternal question about human beings. (39:32) Right? (39:32) Like, I I I do take your point. (39:34) I think it both makes sense to me, honestly. (39:37) Like, it's not just it's not just I'm maybe wired that way, and that's the only reason.
Scott Benner I also maybe I've been through through some things that, you know, lead me in that direction. (39:48) I was actually just thinking this morning because I'm trying to get Kelly to move somewhere warmer.
Erika Forsyth I've heard that.
Scott Benner The idea of uprooting our life, like, like, I know it scares her and it fills her full of, like, lists of things that would be done. (40:00) I have to tell you, like, I know all that stuff would be difficult and unpleasant. (40:04) I don't care. (40:05) Like, if she if she walked in here right now and said, we're moving, I'd be like, right on. (40:08) Let's make it happen.
Scott Benner And then I would just do it. (40:11) But I but I realized it's just probably because I grew up without a lot of parental direction, and I had to take care of myself, and I had take care of my brothers. (40:20) And a lot of stuff was put in front of me, and there really was no like, there was no one to give it to. (40:26) So it was like it was sink or swim most of the time. (40:29) And I've just been through enough experiences that I I really don't I it's hard for me to imagine something that wouldn't if it didn't turn my light out that I couldn't get through.
Scott Benner So, yeah, I mean, if you wanted me to pack the whole house up and get us out of here, I'd figure out a way to get it done. (40:44) I wouldn't love it. (40:44) I'm I'm lazy at my core. (40:46) Erica, I just want you to know. (40:48) There's a lazy person inside of me dying to be lazy.
Scott Benner I can't wait to I can't wait to retire so that I can Yeah. (40:54) Show the world to that person.
Erika Forsyth And then you'd you'd be bored.
Scott Benner Yeah. (40:57) Yeah. (40:58) Oh, probably. (40:58) But I can't, like like, day to day, I can't do that. (41:02) Like, I don't know like, I'm not good at that at all.
Scott Benner Like, I don't come off that way, you wouldn't think that about me. (41:08) But I work on the weekends and, like, late at night, I'm still working and, like, I don't I'm not good at stopping. (41:15) Exactly. (41:15) Until there's a human element. (41:17) Like, this afternoon, the middle of the day here's a good example.
Scott Benner I think this is a good example for all this. (41:23) Arden made an announcement last night that she has a 137 out of a 100 in her class that she has tomorrow, and I'm not going to school tomorrow, she says. (41:32) I have a 137. (41:33) I can miss a day. (41:34) It sounded flippant at first, but then she went through all the things that were gonna happen in class tomorrow.
Scott Benner She's like, I'm not involved in that. (41:40) I'm not involved in this. (41:41) I can do this on my own. (41:43) I have a I I can I can take the hit on the on the attendance? (41:47) I'm gonna stay home tomorrow and bake.
Scott Benner So she's been baking all day. (41:51) She made cakes and cookies, and she's going to a party tonight with her friends, and she's just gonna take a bunch of baked goods and spread them out. (41:58) Right? (41:59) And so I got up this morning. (42:01) I took my shower.
Scott Benner I got my stuff going. (42:03) I recorded with Jenny this morning, and then I had a couple of hours till I had to record with you. (42:09) I have a thousand things to do. (42:11) Like, I'm not kidding. (42:12) But I walked downstairs to get myself something to eat, and Artem was baking, and I just started helping her bake.
Scott Benner And we just did it together for a couple of hours. (42:20) I lined the pans and greased the stuff and flipped the things over and touched the hot stuff and did all the stuff she didn't wanna do. (42:27) You know what I mean? (42:27) But we were doing it together. (42:29) My son came down for his lunch break.
Scott Benner He hung out with us. (42:32) We chatted and talked and blah blah blah. (42:34) My wife kinda took off one headphone while she was working and involved herself in the conversation. (42:39) And then around, like, you know, about fifteen minutes before you and I had to get together, I said, I I gotta go now. (42:45) Like, you know, and I said to I said to Arden, I was like, you're still down here, like, when when I'm done, I'll I'll help you clean the dishes up.
Scott Benner Like, I don't wanna clean the dishes up, Erica. (42:53) I'm not even gonna eat any of that stuff. (42:55) She's gonna give feed it to that boy. (42:56) Like, do you know what I mean? (42:57) And, like but, like, it was such an it was such a nice time to be around each other, no pressure, being supportive, quite even the physical touch thing, it occurred to me when we were down there.
Erika Forsyth Mhmm.
Scott Benner As we walked back and forth, like, she hit me in the side once and I heard her go, and she just hit me in the side. (43:18) Uh-huh. (43:18) And it's just like a it's it is just like you say, it's a brief second. (43:21) Like, it it's meaningless almost until it's not. (43:23) And then you think, like, this is awesome.
Scott Benner I don't know. (43:26) Don't I know what I'm saying.
Erika Forsyth What an ideal, like, afternoon. (43:28) I'm like, gosh, that sounds that sounds lovely.
Scott Benner I mean, you know, working from home, you can, like, you can move the hours around. (43:35) But also, she'll go to that party tonight, and I'm gonna sit around and work on stuff all evening. (43:41) So I'm lucky that I get to shift my day around a little bit. (43:44) Like, everybody can't, like, in the middle of the day just be like, oh, I'm gonna bake for two hours. (43:47) And that's not a thing I normally do either.
Erika Forsyth But Right.
Scott Benner Today's one of those days where it actually came up when we're recording. (43:53) And I think your point earlier was that doesn't have to happen all the time. (43:57) But I also realized that when I did it, she wasn't stunned that I stopped working and did it with her. (44:04) It's that steadiness you talked about earlier. (44:06) That's a thing she would expect from me on some level.
Scott Benner And then it happens, and then there's this comfort that comes over her that this thing that she expects happens, and then that creates confidence. (44:18) There's all these little ways to, like, enrich people anyway.
Erika Forsyth Well and even just the belonging in that the kitchen, there's a safety and sense of, okay. (44:29) What this is we we all belong here together, and we're doing this joint activity together. (44:34) I mean, it is it's it's a cool, beautiful example.
Scott Benner You're all missing out if you're not cooking together sometimes. (44:43) Mhmm. (44:43) It is an it's it is like it's a team effort and, you know, you you rise and fall together. (44:48) Sometimes the food comes out crappy and you just eat it anyway and you laugh about it. (44:51) You know, it didn't work.
Scott Benner And, you know, and sometimes it comes out awesome. (44:54) You get to celebrate with each other and then, you know, even the cleaning up can be fun. (44:59) I think there are a lot of little I don't wanna turn into, like, one of these, like, bro podcast guys, but, like, there's a lot of things that society has shifted on over the years, and we're losing out on some of them. (45:09) And I think I think cooking and eating together is one of them. (45:12) So Mhmm.
Scott Benner Anyway, you know.
Erika Forsyth Well, you're you're gonna make me and probably a lot of listeners, we're gonna go cook some bake some
Scott Benner cupcakes She made these she made these tarts. (45:22) She took the the berries and she, like, I don't know, put them with sugar and, like, don't She had to, like, brought them to a boil or something to turn them into filling, and then they went inside these cookies. (45:32) And she's like, try one. (45:33) It tasted like a Pop Tart.
Erika Forsyth Wow. (45:35) I know it feels that sounds sophisticated.
Scott Benner That's awesome. (45:38) I was like I was like, this is really good. (45:41) What are we up to? (45:41) Knowledge? (45:42) Okay.
Scott Benner Did we get some resilience? (45:44) Okay. (45:44) Alright. (45:45) We're starting to go over on your time. (45:46) I'm sorry.
Erika Forsyth No. (45:47) No. (45:47) We're good.
Scott Benner We're good? (45:48) Okay.
Erika Forsyth Number six, knowledge and opportunity. (45:52) So you have access to learning, and you're also encouraged to continue to explore. (46:00) And I think that can look like a lot of different things. (46:03) I mean, even just with the example of of baking, there's that opportunity to, like, let's try something. (46:08) It might totally fail.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth But not even using that word. (46:11) Like, it might not turn out the way we want, but that's okay. (46:14) And not experiencing, you know, shame or any kind of negative feedback when you do make a mistake. (46:21) I know that I'm thinking as we're talking about this, you know, we're coming recording post Olympics with Alyssa Liu, and her narrative of resilience is one of it's okay if I fall. (46:36) You know, people are curious.
Erika Forsyth Do you have you been following her in figure skating?
Scott Benner I don't know about the Olympics. (46:42) I'm sorry.
Erika Forsyth But Okay.
Scott Benner But go ahead.
Erika Forsyth So sorry. (46:45) Okay. (46:46) So Alyssa Liu won the gold medal in
Scott Benner future skating. (46:49) In the afternoon, Eric. (46:50) Yeah. (46:50) Yeah. (46:51) You out white laded me with that one.
Scott Benner Go ahead.
Erika Forsyth Oh my gosh. (46:58) Okay. (46:59) Well, so really so she won the gold medal, and she used to be a figure skater, a very you know, she was really successful as a younger girl. (47:07) I think she retired in her teens.
Scott Benner Okay.
Erika Forsyth 16 and then didn't skate for two years, three years. (47:13) I'm these numbers aren't right. (47:15) But she returned to figure skating and presented with such joy, and she was her kind of narrative is that she's out there. (47:24) She doesn't care about the results or the medals or the judges. (47:27) She's and she if she falls, it's part of her journey.
Erika Forsyth Like, it's part of the performance, and there's not a sense of shame around it. (47:36) And I just thought that's, you know that probably took a lot of work for her to get to that place. (47:40) It's not just like she showed up and was like, who cares about the judges? (47:44) So there's that element that I think is important to hold, but also somewhere along the line, she learned that it's okay to show up and make mistakes, and that's not gonna be
Scott Benner You kinda feel like you have permission not to be perfect and that there's no there's no judgment at the end of it. (48:01) Like, I tried, and it didn't work out, and that's fine. (48:04) Listen. (48:04) I built this whole thing on that. (48:06) I was talking to somebody earlier today who's thinking of starting a a business up, and I was like, you think I had this all worked out when I started this?
Scott Benner I was like, you're out of your mind. (48:15) Like, I just, like, I didn't know what I was doing. (48:17) I had an idea. (48:18) I put some effort into it. (48:19) Taught myself about the first thing.
Scott Benner That went okay. (48:22) Taught myself about the second thing. (48:24) That went okay. (48:25) I said I've made mistakes along the way. (48:27) I've done things that, like, have wasted have been incredible waste of my time.
Scott Benner In the end, you learn something from it anyway. (48:33) And, you know, you just move on and build on it later. (48:35) It's just the whole world's a t shirt slogan if you just let it be, Erica. (48:39) Like, I mean, honestly, like, go back to I don't know. (48:43) Go back to stoicism and read their writings and then turn it into a 2026 t shirt slogan.
Scott Benner It's all the same stuff. (48:50) Like, there's, like, five things you have to do and you can be happy. (48:53) It's not that hard. (48:54) It's hard when other people get involved and your feelings get involved and your paranoia gets involved, then you start thinking, oh, I have to be perfect. (49:01) I can't fall down.
Scott Benner I have to get a 100 on everything. (49:03) I mean, let's go even Arden last night. (49:05) Like, she's explaining to us. (49:07) She has 37 extra points over a 100 because there's part of her who thinks I should be going to class. (49:13) I have to be able to offer up enough reasons.
Scott Benner It's not not to us, to her, for her to be comfortable in doing this. (49:20) And she and she build up enough buffer that she could be downstairs in her pajamas baking and feel comfortable about it. (49:25) I gotta be honest with you. (49:26) Like, I wouldn't want her just not going to school, but she didn't have to have 37 more points. (49:30) She could have, like, she can end with, you know, a different a or a b or something like this.
Scott Benner Not that important. (49:36) Like, you you know what I mean? (49:37) Like, as long I tell my the same thing. (49:39) Both of my kids went to college, and I was like, look. (49:41) College isn't grades.
Scott Benner It's understanding. (49:44) I was like, you're gonna go into the real world. (49:45) If you don't understand the thing you studied, you're gonna be in trouble. (49:49) I was like, so, like, cheating to get a good number, you just have a problem later. (49:53) You're gonna be out in the real world, someone's gonna say something, you're gonna realize, oh my god, I'm a fraud.
Scott Benner I don't understand this. (49:59) And I was like, so, you know, don't it's not about a number to me. (50:02) So you're going to learn something. (50:04) Like, go learn it. (50:05) Once you understand it, stay home and bake on Friday.
Scott Benner What do I care?
Erika Forsyth Mhmm. (50:09) Well and that that kind of narrative builds resilience and removes that pressure around the perfectionism, and then that leads to more confidence in trying new things and and pursuing new goals. (50:23) Right? (50:24) Because then you you know, well, if I don't make it that way, I'm still gonna be okay. (50:29) I'm still safe.
Scott Benner Yeah. (50:30) I'll figure it out. (50:31) Mhmm. (50:31) I want my kids to just feel like, oh, I'll figure it out. (50:34) You know, that's be and I don't know if they'll actually figure it out, Erica.
Scott Benner That's not important. (50:38) The important thing is that they that they feel like they can. (50:41) You know what I mean? (50:41) Like, they might fall in their face. (50:42) I have no idea.
Scott Benner They could be back here three years from now being like, hey. (50:46) Can you please pay for my dental appointment? (50:48) I can't afford it. (50:48) I was like, I I don't know where they'll be, but at least they at least they're not running around scared. (50:54) Like, I'd much rather see my kids running forward failing than standing still and cowering.
Body Health, Safety, and Community
Scott Benner You know? (50:59) Mhmm. (50:59) So alright. (51:00) Where are we at? (51:01) I'm sorry.
Erika Forsyth Okay. (51:03) So number seven, body health and safety. (51:07) So having access to healthy, nutritious food, clean water, health care, you're living in a physically safe environment. (51:18) I like the this last one, you've you've learned to rest.
Scott Benner To
Erika Forsyth rest? (51:22) Right? (51:22) Like, to that talk about, you know, the body trust concept. (51:26) Right? (51:26) Like, being able to listen to your body and give it what it needs without feeling that sense of of burden or shame.
Erika Forsyth Kind of like what you just talked about. (51:34) Again, going back to the baking analogy
Scott Benner Yeah.
Erika Forsyth You were able to say, oh, I can do this now and I can shift work later, and there's not that sense of guilt.
Scott Benner You didn't read it right out, but you've learned to rest, move, and care for your body without guilt. (51:45) I think that's important. (51:46) Yeah. (51:47) And I I'll tell you too. (51:48) I I bring this up all the time, but I have a what I consider to be a flexible rotating to do list in my head.
Scott Benner Like, the thing that's number one right now, something could happen five minutes right now to make that number five for me, and I let it slide down without any compunction at all. (52:06) Like, okay. (52:06) That's not as important anymore. (52:07) It'll slide it because if I keep saying, well, this is number one. (52:10) Now there's a new number one, and now there's a third number one.
Scott Benner I'm not built to handle three dire things happening at the same time. (52:17) I can't do that. (52:18) So something's not as dire. (52:19) It slides down the list and, you know, I I tell my wife all the time, my wife's got one of those jobs where there's always a thousand things to do and they're never gonna get finished. (52:28) And she's like, I gotta get this done.
Scott Benner I said, you've been doing this since I said, since you were out of college. (52:32) I said, we're in our fifties. (52:34) You've never caught up once. (52:36) I've never heard you, like like, emerge from a room and go, I've done it. (52:40) There's nothing left to do.
Scott Benner I've I've caught up. (52:43) I was like, it's never happened once in your life. (52:44) I'm like, just accept that that's gonna be the like, stop feeling like you're chasing perfection and start realizing that this is the game. (52:52) The game is there's always something to do. (52:56) The trick is not feeling like you're gonna get it all done.
Scott Benner And trust me, you all will
Erika Forsyth listen mindset shift.
Scott Benner No. (53:02) Alright. (53:02) Listen. (53:02) Most of the people listening will listen to me about that before that lady will. (53:06) I was like, you know, she's punishing me for loving her and dedicating my life to her and stuff like that.
Scott Benner But, like, she ain't gonna listen to me, but some of you might. (53:13) I'm helping you because she won't listen. (53:15) But, like, she she can't do that. (53:16) Like, it's not in her nature. (53:18) Like, she'll die.
Erika Forsyth It's hard.
Scott Benner 100%, she's dying in that chair. (53:21) 100%, we're gonna push her into the ambulance right from the chair she works. (53:26) Oh my gosh. (53:27) And with her last breath, she'll say, it was worth it. (53:30) Like and I I really think that, by the way.
Scott Benner She loves what she does, and she's she's one of those people. (53:36) Like, she's task oriented. (53:38) She if you stopped she thinks she's gonna retire. (53:41) That's insane. (53:43) That that lady ain't retiring.
Scott Benner And unless I'm wrong, and then I'd be happily wrong. (53:47) I'd love to watch her sit in a chair for ten years and go for a walk. (53:51) I think that's what I'm working towards is getting her to that spot. (53:54) My fear is I'll get her to that spot and she'll be like, I'm just gonna consult on the side. (53:58) Yeah.
Scott Benner And I'd be like, yeah. (53:59) I'm we'll go for a walk by myself. (54:01) Last thing, community and justice. (54:04) You live in a space where people are treated fairly. (54:08) Help is available when you need it.
Scott Benner You feel valued by your community and society at large. (54:14) We're not always in charge of that about, like, financially where we can live or, you know, what part of the world is safe or whatnot. (54:21) But if you have that, it's definitely a bonus for you. (54:24) And if you it's within your grasp to move towards it, you should know I think it's important for you. (54:29) So.
Outro & Final Sponsor Messages
Scott Benner Erica, I really appreciate you doing this with me. (54:33) I appreciate you letting me text you some random sentence that says, hey. (54:37) There's aces. (54:38) There must be something opposite, and and us turning it into four hours worth of conversation.
Erika Forsyth Well and, yes, lo and behold, it it's there.
Scott Benner You really should respond to me and say, please leave me alone. (54:48) That's what I lose my number or come up with a more fully fleshed out idea. (54:54) Would you, please?
Erika Forsyth No. (54:57) It's it's good. (54:58) I'm glad. (54:58) Brain works.
Scott Benner Yeah. (54:59) Well, let me thank you for doing this again and and tell you how much I appreciate you and your time and and and remind people that Erica's got bills too. (55:08) So erica foresythe dot com, if you're looking for an awesome therapist who specializes in helping people with type one diabetes. (55:17) She can't help you in every state, but if you live in California or if you live in go, Erica.
Erika Forsyth Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Florida.
Scott Benner And she can help you virtually.
Erika Forsyth Yes.
Scott Benner Are we adding more? (55:29) You. (55:30) Or did the government put the kibosh for that?
Erika Forsyth There's a there's a potential of one of Washington, but that's still that's not close. (55:37) It's still in the works.
Scott Benner Columbia or a state?
Erika Forsyth A state.
Scott Benner State. (55:42) Alright. (55:42) Well, listen. (55:43) If you live in a hippie state, Erica can probably help you. (55:45) Ericaforesight.com is what I just heard, or Florida, which is just a different kind of hippie state.
Scott Benner Alright. (55:50) Talk to you later.
Erika Forsyth Thank you. (55:51) Thanks, Scott.
Scott Benner This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod five. (56:06) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free what I just say? (56:13) A free Omnipod five starter kit. (56:16) Free? (56:17) Get out of here.
Scott Benner Go click on that link. (56:19) Omnipod.com/juicebox. (56:21) Check it out. (56:22) Terms and conditions apply. (56:24) Eligibility may vary.
Scott Benner Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (56:30) Links in the show notes. (56:31) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com. (56:37) A huge thank you to Cozy Earth, a longtime sponsor. (56:41) Cozyearth.com.
Scott Benner Use the offer code juice box at checkout. (56:46) You will save 20% off of your entire order when you use that code. (56:51) Don't let me down kids. (56:52) Head over there now. (56:53) Get yourself some joggers, some towels, some sheets.
Scott Benner Save yourself some money. (56:57) Support the podcast. (56:58) Make your life beautiful and comfortable all at the same time. (57:01) Cozyearth.com. (57:02) Use the offer code juice box at checkout.
Scott Benner Dexcom sponsored this episode of the juice box podcast. (57:11) Learn more about the Dexcom g seven at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox. (57:21) Hey. (57:21) Thanks for listening all the way to the end. (57:23) I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership.
Scott Benner Thank you so much for listening. (57:27) I'll be back very soon with another episode of the juice box podcast. (57:38) My diabetes pro tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward practical insights that truly make a difference. (57:47) This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin, dosing adjustments, or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. (57:57) I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over thirty five years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple actionable tips.
Scott Benner The diabetes pro tip series runs between episode one thousand and one thousand twenty five in your podcast player, or you can listen to it at juiceboxpodcast.com by going up into the menu. (58:18) Have a podcast? (58:19) Want it to sound fantastic? (58:20) Wrongwayrecording.com.
#1845 Live Tech Support
Scott helps Danette, an overwhelmed mother managing her daughter's type 1 diabetes. He advises going back to basics, resetting basal insulin , and prioritizing sleep to combat burnout.
Companies that Support Juicebox
Key Takeaways
- When diabetes management feels overwhelming and chaotic, go back to the absolute basics by simplifying your approach and focusing first on foundational settings rather than complex variables.
- Accurate basal insulin is critical; if basal rates are incorrectly set (often too low), meal boluses and correction factors will struggle to work effectively, leading to unpredictable blood sugars.
- Taking a "pump break" and returning to Multiple Daily Injections (MDI) can be a valuable tool to reset expectations and isolate basal needs without algorithmic interference.
- Caregiver burnout and a lack of sleep drastically impact your ability to make clear, rational decisions regarding diabetes management, often leading to over-correcting or over-worrying.
- Avoid "chasing ghosts"—such as constantly blaming bad insulin or cannula issues—before confirming that your basic insulin-to-carb ratios and basal rates are properly dialed in.
Resources Mentioned
Introduction & Support Resources
Scott Benner Here we are back together again, friends, for another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Danette My name is Danette, and I'm from the Midwest.
Scott Benner Hey. Do you need support? I have some stuff for you. It's all free. Juiceboxpodcast.com. Click on support in the menu. Let's see what you get there. A one c and blood glucose calculator. People love that. That's actually, I think, the most popular page on the website some months. A list of great endocrinologists from listeners. That's from all over the country. There's a link to the private Facebook group, to the Circle community, and we have a a fantastic thing there, American Sign Language. There's a great sign language interpreter who did the entire bold beginning series in ASL. So if you know anybody who would benefit from that, please send them that way. Just go to juiceboxpodcast.com and click on support. While you're there, check out the guides, like the pre bolusing guide, fat and protein insulin calculator, oh gosh, thyroid, GLP, caregiver burnout. You should go to the website. Click around a little bit on those menus. It really there's a lot more there than you think. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.
Scott Benner The show you're about to listen to is sponsored by the Eversense three sixty five. The Eversense three sixty five has exceptional accuracy over one year and is the most accurate CGM in the low range that you can get. Eversensecgm.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner Today's episode is also sponsored by the Tandem Mobi system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. Tandem Mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. The podcast is also sponsored today by US Med. Usmed.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner You can get your diabetes supplies from the same place that we do. And I'm talking Dexcom, Libre, Omnipod, Tandem, and so much more. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514.
Danette's Daughter's Diagnosis Story
Danette My name is Danette, and I'm from the Midwest.
Scott Benner Danette, that was awesome. Thank you. Some people struggle to introduce themselves. Danette, you have diabetes? You have a child with type one?
Danette I have a child. My daughter, she's seven and a half. She was diagnosed five years ago on 02/01/2021, and I am also the mother to a son who's 10. They're almost three years apart to the day.
Scott Benner Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Do you have any type one or other autoimmune in your family or any reason to think that maybe you'd have a child with diabetes one day?
Danette No. The doctor said, quote, it has to start somewhere.
Scott Benner What an upbeat thought.
Danette I've got type two on my side of the family. My husband has some type two on his, but no type one that we know of. No other autoimmune that we can think of.
Scott Benner Really? No celiac or thyroid or anything like that floating around?
Danette No. Not at all.
Scott Benner I find a lot of people have thyroid and don't tell anybody about it. It's an interesting thing too. Does your family talk about health? Was it a thing you feel like you would know about if it existed?
Danette Yes and no. I think we hear about health problems after the fact. Like, seventeen years ago, my mom had a very massive heart attack, and it was kinda like brought all the family together. But up until that point, didn't really talk about health. It was like, yeah, my type two is bad. My health was bad. I didn't take my medication. Oops. I had a heart attack, that kind of thing. But nothing really at the forefront, like preventative, keeping on top of things. I think now that, you know, our parents or grandparents, they wanna be around, and so now it's more of a focus. But back then, it wasn't really.
Scott Benner Oops. I had a heart attack would be a great episode, Nave, if you would have just said it a little later in the episode. So okay. I'm just gonna ask a little further. Just like vitiligo, psoriasis, anything even, like, inflammation related, like, just terrible seasonal allergies or anything like that?
Danette Nope.
Scott Benner How about that? Okay. Did she have a virus previous to the diagnosis? I mean, she's two and a half. Right?
Danette You know, not that I could think of. You know, I kinda look back at the pictures and you see, like, wow. You could really tell that she was getting sick.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette Compared to my son, she was always kind of a chunker. So it was like she was starting to lean out. We thought, oh, she's going through a growth spurt. You know, that's just normal. Oh, she's wetting through her diapers because we have a bad batch of diapers, and so we were getting the overnights and that kind of thing. And then it just got progressively worse. I don't think she was sick before. Nothing that we could pinpoint. I mean, it was during COVID. We avoided that. They were still in daycare. Didn't really get sick.
Scott Benner No hand, foot, mouth?
Danette No. No. She actually got hand, foot, and mouth after she had diabetes. Oh. We had a little stint in the hospital for an overnight because of ketones and things like that. And when I was changing her diaper, I noticed the rash on her bottom. And then she was saying that her applesauce tasted spicy. And so when I looked at her tongue, like, she had the dots on it, but that was after her diagnosis.
Scott Benner Spicy applesauce. Yeah. I don't think that would be good. Maybe it would be. I don't know. I don't wanna think about it right now because I'm hungry. I haven't eaten yet today. I was like, oh, applesauce. I'm like a child. I love applesauce. My goodness. Okay. So she's diagnosed. You notice her leaning out. You go to, like, a family clinician. Do you end up at a hospital? What's the process of figuring it out and getting moving?
Danette So how we figured it out was both of my children were cursed early on with they just stopped napping around, like, 18, two years old. And so she'd been really lethargic. She was drinking a lot of water, but we didn't really put two and two together. And I had gone away on a day trip with some friends, and my husband had reported that my daughter was very cranky and lethargic, like, just not feeling herself. And he chalked that up to I was gone all day. Mom wasn't home. So this was on a Saturday. On Sunday, she took, like, two or three naps, which was unusual. And she was very clingy. She was eating fine. But then on Monday, I was working from home at the time, she just didn't seem right. She looked flushed. She'd gone down for multiple naps, and I told my husband, I said, if she's not feeling better by tomorrow, I'm gonna take her to our family GP. And so I went up to change her diaper, and when I laid her on the changing table, her eyes kind of rolled back in the back of her head like she was gonna just, like, pass out. And so I told him, I said, I think I should probably take her to an ER. So there's one pretty close by our house, and we took her there. And she was very disengaged. She wasn't looking around. She wasn't excited to be in the car. And so when we checked in, you know, the nurses are giving her the bracelet and getting my questionnaire completed, and she just looked very distant. And so I still had no idea what was wrong with her. But then when we got back to the room, the doctor comes in and says, well, we're gonna do some blood work, and we're gonna do urinalysis, but I'm pretty sure she has diabetes.
Scott Benner Now he knew by looking at her, or do we smell her breath maybe?
Danette I don't recall the ketone smell. I don't recall any, like, Kussmaul respirations. She was just so lethargic, and I don't know. He just knew.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette And that was just kind of, like, a blow. I had no idea, like, how he could have guessed it, but he's like, we see this all the time. We're just gonna get you admitted, and you'll probably be in the hospital a couple days, we'll go from there.
Scott Benner Wow.
Danette So he seemed to know right away.
Scott Benner Yeah. Prior to him saying that, you just thought, what, she's sick? She had a cold or the flu? Or
Danette No idea. She had never really been sick before. Not like that.
Scott Benner But she was your second. Right? So you had one already?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yes. So you'd even been through a little bit of that. You not even nervous at the hospital? Were you just more confused?
Danette It was, like, really confused. Like, how could this be happening? You know, she's so little. It was just kinda out of the blue, like, not even on the radar.
Scott Benner I hear you. Okay. Is it more of a shock to you or your husband? Who do you think took it harder? Do you think somebody handled it better than anybody else?
Danette I think we were both kinda taken aback by it. I think early on, my husband was just like, we gotta get through this, and he kind of compartmentalized it and never really kinda dealt with the fact that she had diabetes. It was like in the middle of COVID and all this crazy stuff. Right? Mhmm. Until he'll even admit, like, he had never really processed the fact that she had diabetes, so I could think it hits him harder sometimes thinking about it. But, yeah, it was just completely off the radar.
Scott Benner During COVID, meaning, like, during lockdown portion of it?
Danette So we were about a year in because we locked down in, what, February or March 2020, and then she got diagnosed in 2021.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette So we were still working from home. So I guess in that regard, like, our companies hadn't really
Scott Benner We were in the part of COVID where we were all like, I guess we'll just live in our houses for the rest of our lives. Yeah.
Danette Yeah. Pretty much.
Scott Benner Right. Right. I gotcha. Alright. So that part.
Early Struggles and the Value of a CGM
Scott Benner What did they start you off with? Technology? Was it harder to get educated? You know, what did that extra layer of separation create? Do you think it ended up being good or bad in the long run?
Danette Hard to say. I it was just a complete shock. You know, they told us if you count your carbs and you just give insulin, it's gonna be fine. Right? And so I'm like, oh, this is, the best disease to have because I can count. Right? Perfect. Been a nightmare since then. But, yeah, we left with Lantus and Chemalog with syringes. I think we were on a the quick pen.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette Left with a ton of lancets and finger sticks and things like that. I was, like, such in a daze. I didn't even really understand the benefit of having a CGM, so I was against her having something on her body, which at this point, I think that we should have done that from day one. Uh-huh. You know? But there was no one telling me, well, this is why you need it. This is why it's important. So from the very get go, was kinda like sink or swim, figure it out yourself, which is a very difficult position to be in.
Scott Benner Yeah. I have to tell you, I'm still laughing at your assertion that while I can count, this is gonna be a breeze. Like, that really still has me amused.
Danette Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner Oh, diabetes about counting. I got ten fingers. I got ten toes. I know my gazinthus. This is gonna be no problem at all. And then immediately didn't pan out that way.
Danette Oh, no.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Still hasn't, I imagine. Yeah. What an interesting, like, first reaction. I love that. I don't know why that just that tickled me. I'm sure it didn't tickle you when you realized that none of that worked out. But so why didn't you want the CGM initially?
Danette I think it was just hard to see what I I don't know. Like, they just came in. They handed me a pamphlet. They said, take a look at this. We can give you a sample, and then they basically walked out. No one said, this is the value. You won't have to do these finger sticks. You'll have data at your fingertips. So that along with the packet of, like, you know, we could apply for some kind of financial aid to begin with because she was diagnosed to get some of the hospital covered, and it was just so much information at once
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette That there was no one there to say, this is why you need this. This is why it's important.
Scott Benner Do you think that if it would have gotten presented to you differently, you would have had the bandwidth to even think about it or is no way to know?
Danette Oh, I probably would have. I think so.
Scott Benner Okay. Well, then how did you find out about it eventually? How did you eventually bump into the idea that, oh, that thing they mentioned, I should look at that again?
Danette So my sister-in-law, not by blood, she has a lot of people in her family of type one. And she was like, Dee, you gotta get this CGM. Like, this is gonna be very helpful. So having someone in my family say, this is why it's important. And then we didn't have a CGM, I'm gonna say for about two months. Mhmm. And then we were still doing finger sticks randomly before meals and things like that. And one day, we were about to have dinner, and my daughter just looked very tired, like, uncharacteristic. And I did a finger stick, and she was, like, 40. Mhmm. And I was like, okay. We need data. We need to know when this is gonna happen because we're just getting those snapshots. It's not really giving us the big picture.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette I think that was the point where I kinda realized the utility of why we needed it.
Scott Benner Okay. Well, I'm a big fan. So I Yeah. Yeah. I think if you're using insulin, you should be wearing one if it is all possible. Did you do diabetes long enough without one to feel the benefit, or was it really just that one time situation that made you think, oh, this is scary. I don't wanna do this again. I'm gonna grab the thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, if somebody asked you to explain to them what's it like to manage without it versus what's it like to manage with it, do you think you have experience without it to talk about it?
Danette No. I think at that point, we were still kinda in a daze. Right? We didn't know what was going on between meals, finger sticks in the middle of the night, high all the time, low sometimes. I went back through some of our information. I was looking at, you know, those little handwritten sheets they give you in the hospital, like log your dose, log your carbs, log your blood sugar before and after meals. Mhmm. It was just all over the place, and we just didn't know what to do with that information.
Scott Benner So you're just writing these random numbers down, but not having any actionable idea of what to do next now that you saw the numbers. Yeah. Mhmm. I mean, I had an incredibly difficult time trying to make sense of all those random numbers too. You know? The CGM is just a I mean, to say it's a game changer is just not enough. You know? It's not an effusive enough of a description of what it does for you if you're using insulin, and it just opens the whole thing up. How quickly did you I mean, I obviously see the benefit of the CGM pretty quickly, but how quickly after that does it actually translate into better outcomes, or does it not? Does something else need to happen?
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Frustrations with Pump Therapy and Outcomes
Danette Outcomes. I think that's why we're talking today. So when I look back at the numbers, right, it was just all over the place. I mean, high blood sugars and, of course, we're new a newly diagnosed family. We don't know what to expect. Our endocrinologist is saying, oh, you're doing fine. This is great. You know, better high than low, that kind of thing. Mhmm. The outcomes weren't where we I wouldn't say where we expected because we had no expectation. Right? So it's, oh, just dose her after her meals. And when I had expressed concern that the blood sugars were very high, then the endocrinologist says, well, dose before, but, you know, part of the risk of that is if she doesn't eat, then, you know, what are you gonna feed her? So putting fear in our mind right away.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette So it became, like, the what ifs, like, started almost immediately. So I would say that we struggle with the outcomes. We struggled with the feedback that we're getting, the advice that we were getting. Like, Oh, you're doing fine. A1c can be this high. You know, there's really no risk right now to having these terrible blood sugars. And when I'm not happy with them, you're touching the pump too much. You want to control this disease too much, and it's not controllable. You know, she's a child, that kind of thing.
Scott Benner Okay. Yeah. So tell people how you and I come together today.
Danette Do you want me to cry an hour later?
Scott Benner No. I mean, whenever you want is fine. But I didn't know you're gonna cry. But no. But Explain how we got here and why we're recording.
Scott Benner Danette, are you there?
Danette I am.
Scott Benner Oh, honey, are you okay? I'm sorry.
Danette No. It's fine.
Scott Benner Take your time.
Danette It's funny. My husband's like, you know, you can't record this at work. You have to come home home for this.
Scott Benner Are you at work crying right now?
Danette I am, but I'm in, like, a maternity room, so no one's gonna come in
Scott Benner here. Okay. So you hear a lady crying in the maternity room, no one's going in. You're completely safe. What's going on?
Danette I'm just really frustrated about the level of care that I'm providing to my daughter.
Scott Benner Okay. Alright.
Danette You know, I feel like I am a right brain person. We were kinda hesitant about a pump to begin with because it's like she was so little, and just the idea of something on her was hard. But I mentioned before how she had a hand, foot, and mouth, and we went to the doctor, and we were, you know, triage in the ER. And one of the nurses came in, and, like, she told me that we really needed to get on a pump and that she was a type one diabetic. And she says, I'm a nurse. I have three children. I have a great life. I have a strenuous job, and my diabetes doesn't prevent me from doing anything.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette And so that kind of set me up on our pump journey, and I feel like everything we've tried, we've never gotten good outcomes.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette We struggle with and when I say terrible time and range, I'm talking, like, 50%, you know, blood sugars averaging in the high one eighties. And children's hospital, they just say, oh, you're doing great. You know? You need to focus on your sleep. You need to be present for your child. And it's hard to do that. And I feel like we've had a lot of, like, insane obstacles that you know, I I listen to the podcast, like, religiously. It's, like, in the background constantly just trying to glean any kind of help. Yeah. And I feel like I know all the steps that we need to do, but they just, for some reason, don't translate.
Scott Benner Okay. So let's first of all, I want people to know that you sent an email, and I have a lot of experience receiving emails from people, and you can kind of see when a return email isn't kind of enough. Does that make sense? Like, was nothing you sent me in that email could I have properly responded to, if that makes any sense. What is it? I said, hey. Do you wanna jump on the podcast and we can just talk it through? Right? Is that how I did that? Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. I have to be honest. I think to do that more often than I actually do it, but I don't know exactly what it was about your note that made me think we should. But
Danette I think it just oozed desperation.
Scott Benner It oozed desperation. So let's go over a couple of things that your health care providers are telling you that is valuable even though it's not it doesn't feel supportive at the moment. Right? But they're not wrong that you gotta get some sleep because it's gonna make you crazy and you're not gonna be able to think. And but to say, don't worry about this a one c. Don't worry about this blood sugar when you're worried about it is not valuable at all. You're not gonna just stop worrying about it. It's impactful to you. I think you're right, by the way, to be concerned about it. I also think that there's a tiny bit of right with them where the world's not gonna blow up if it takes you another month to figure this out or something like that. But you're probably imagining it never gets straight, and it's five years from now and you're still doing this because it's already been five years. Right?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. So I think I understand about where you're at. So let me start slowly. You have a CGM. Is that right?
Danette Yes.
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Danette So we started out on the Omnipod, I think, probably about six or eight months in. Never really had a lot of success with it, but I'm, like, trying to force the fit because, you know, everyone on the podcast is using Omnipod. Everyone in the and I know that's a generalization. A lot of people on the Facebook group are using Omnipod, and then you can tailor the base. Well, you can do all these things. And for a while, for us, it was more of a way to stop doing so many shots. Right?
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette So we did the Omnipod, and it was just a real struggle. And so then when the Omnipod five came out, I was very adamant about wanting to get on that to kind of relieve some of my overnight stressors. And our provider hit or miss. I mean, he was kinda, like, on the verge of retirement, so he had flat out told me that he didn't think pump therapy was a feasible option for a child because, you know, they're too active. They get bumped off. You get the same outcomes as MDI. So no support there.
Scott Benner I'm gonna stop you for second. Where do you live? Not not exactly, but, like, how come everybody's all shucks in you all the time?
Danette Exactly. I don't know.
Scott Benner Okay. Okay.
Danette So I have since changed my attitude. Now I'm a more, you know, you work for me and this is what I want. Mhmm. But now we kinda have I wouldn't say friction when I go. Probably. I mean, they probably can't stand to see me, actually.
Scott Benner I wouldn't say friction, but I think they hate me.
Danette Pretty much. They basically handed me off to a new nurse practitioner because I disagreed so much with the other one that we saw. Like, I flat out told her wholeheartedly, I do not agree with your recommendations. And, yeah, I think they're just used to people maybe having better outcomes and who don't struggle as much, who just, like, go to the appointments and get their a one c and go on, and that's it.
Scott Benner Why do you assume the other people are having better outcomes? Why don't you assume that the other people are having middling outcomes and they're just agreeing with the doctor and not paying attention to it after that?
Danette Could be.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Don't be hard on yourself
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner There. You're making a hell of a leap there that everybody's doing well but you. Mhmm. You know? I would imagine if I had to guess, I'd imagine that everybody's been given, like, oh, you're doing great. Get some sleep. You know, that kind of, like, homespun wisdom thing. And they're all just going, okay. Well, then she said I'm doing good. So I'm good, and then I'm not gonna think about it anymore.
Danette I think
Scott Benner you're Mhmm. You're maybe in that situation where you're the only one making sense, and you're being left to feel like you're the crazy one.
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's probably making you crazy. So we're gonna Yeah. Try to avoid that. Okay. So I'm sorry. So you have Omnipod five right now?
Danette So we were on the Omnipod five. We did that for about, let's say, a year. I can't remember. It was a while. And it was just not working out. Like, we couldn't get the settings right. My daughter was having a lot of lows because it would kick out too much insulin in auto mode. So then we were having to do manual during the day, auto at night, making all these adjustments, and she started to get really bad reactions to the adhesive. I was constantly calling in pods because they would just stop working after twenty four to thirty six hours. My daughter was having a lot of swelling at the sites, pus in the cannula. It was interrupting the insulin delivery and then, you know, leading to the higher blood sugars. So I was very adamant against a tubed pump, but last June, we kinda finally hit our limit. And I was like, you know what? Let's just try the tandem Mobi. It's small, and we'll just deal with it. We were on that for a while, and the outcomes were a little bit better. We were starting to see improvement. Then we started having this weird thing where my daughter was getting a lot of air in her tubing, and no one could figure out why. We got the pump replaced, and she kept having these air bubbles, like, near the pump site. So it wasn't just after a couple days, yes, you get air in the cartridge and that travels its way down. It was like we were constantly flushing the tubing and constantly having air, and no one could figure out why. So we also kind of had a little bit of a butting heads with the nurses at school because they would just dose her, and then she would be three hundred, and they would just continue to dose. And I was like, well, I picked her up early today, and I checked her tubing, and she had air. And they're like, well, there was no air when we checked. I'm like, okay. I'm not saying anything about when you checked it, but when I did, there was air. And so we just got to the point where it's like, okay. At school, we can't control our numbers. We just need to go back to MDI. I guess, start from scratch and try to get the basics down.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette So we've gone through, like, all of the difference not all of them, a lot of different options. Right now, we're trying to explore the twist pump, but it's not covered by my insurance. I found this out yesterday, so we're trying to do an appeal Just because we're losing a lot of freedom with MDI, my daughter, she would send me pictures from the bus. Like, hey. I wanna eat this piece of candy. This is how many carbs it is, and we would walk through the app together about how to dose herself when she was on the Mobi. So we've tried lots of different things, but we've never had steady, stable, predictable numbers.
Analyzing the Numbers: Basal vs. Bolus
Scott Benner My guess is is that either you are doing something, like, egregiously not right and that you're unaware of, or her body is somehow not conducive to the cannula? Is it possible she's allergic to the cannula material? Is it you know what I mean? Like because you're a person who's paying a lot of attention.
Danette Right.
Scott Benner And I hear your frustration, and you're not getting outcomes even close to the amount of effort you're putting in. Is that about how it feels? Yes. Okay. And what's her a one c right now?
Danette It's 6.9.
Scott Benner Okay. And her time in range is about 50%, you're saying? Ish?
Danette Well, yeah, the last week has been hard because so, you know, I am a religious listener, and I hear all the time about how you say, you know, people just look for ghosts. And, like, I see ghosts, like, legitimately.
Scott Benner All the time.
Danette Yeah. Or when you say people like, oh, well, the insulin went bad. It had it couldn't be the insulin. You know? So last week, when we would decide to go MDI to kinda get things under control, we were gonna use spring break as, like, a baseline.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette Well, she gets a near infection, and she gets on antibiotics, and we switch to an insulin pen. And her sugars are completely unmanageable. I mean, like, ridiculous. I'm giving her so much insulin. Now I'm not a fan of big boluses because I feel like I can't trust my own data that I have from any of her systems. But one day, I was like, you know what? We've got glucagon, and if I have to use it, I'm gonna use it. And for one morning on breakfast, I gave her seven units of insulin to cover breakfast and her antibiotic. Her normal dose is about two and a half to three units. That was a big step for me.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Danette And I'm thinking, okay. We're just gonna do it, and she still went to three 100. And so I'm crying all day. I send you my crazy schizophrenic email, and I said, you know what? I'm just gonna open a vial of insulin and give her a shot with a syringe. And that was the first time in a week that with any predictable forum, we got movement in her blood sugar. I'm like, are you kidding me? Did I legitimately have bad insulin in this pen that I've been using for a week with no relief whatsoever? But, yeah, it just seems weird. Like and then another thing I think about you saying is, like, oh, people aren't brittle diabetics. You just don't know how to use insulin. Like, is she the brittle diabetic? Like, is she the the unicorn Well if you will.
Scott Benner Yeah. So let's reset your expectations a tiny bit for a second, though. A six nine a one c is good.
Danette Okay.
Scott Benner Yeah. Is she getting low a lot?
Danette Okay. So the way I think about it, I'm not really thinking in terms of a one c. Right? Because if you see these graphs, the CGM data that is, like, 300 or two fifty for hours and hours and hours.
Scott Benner Yeah. We don't
Danette want that.
Scott Benner Like Yeah. Right.
Danette Me, it's like, okay. What are her lows? Because, like, my GMI or whatever on the Dexcom is always higher than what her a one c is. So then I try to really not spiral into, well, can I even trust this data? Is she running low all the time? Mhmm. Whatever. You know? So it's just so much information, but to be in range 50% of the time, it's not good. I'm not looking for that five A one c. You know what I mean?
Scott Benner Yeah. I'm not arguing with you. I'm trying to say, like, unless she's incredibly low for long amounts of time, you're not missing by a lot. You're missing somewhere, obviously, if you're seeing two fifties or three hundreds that are lasting for a long time. Let's start slow here. How much does she weigh?
Danette Sixty pounds.
Scott Benner Sixty zero? Six zero?
Danette Six zero.
Scott Benner Okay. And how much insulin does she use a day?
Danette About twenty to twenty five units.
Scott Benner Okay. And that doesn't seem like it's enough?
Danette Sometimes.
Scott Benner I wonder like, what are reasons why she could be insulin resistant? Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, she's a kid. Right? So she's active. She's moving around.
Danette Right. And that's another thing. Like, with the pumps, especially, we were having to have all these different basal rates around her physical activity because when she's active, she is so sensitive to insulin. And so it's just, overall, just extremely difficult to manage because I cannot expect her to sit still after a meal because of insulin. But then once she's high, it seems like it takes a lot to bring it down.
Scott Benner What's her basal at?
Danette So right now on MDI, we're at six and a half units of Tresiba.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette And that seems to be a little on the high side because she's kind of drifting down between meals and overnight. I think it might be a little bit too much.
Scott Benner Okay. So overnight, she's drifting down by getting low or drifting down?
Danette Just difficulty all around. Like, I can never get her to bed at a normal number. Like, she's got sports and things like that, and she's rebound highs, and we're fighting with those. And so then by the time she finally is in range, she needs an applesauce because I was too heavy on the bolus. It's just different because we've been doing MDI for two weeks. Yeah. So it feels like it's all over the place.
Scott Benner I found myself wondering, and this is probably a great place to repeat this. I am not a doctor, and this is definitely not advice. And what I'm wondering is, are you seeing lows mainly after meals or after correction boluses?
Danette I don't even know.
Scott Benner Because I wonder if maybe your basil is not just it could be more aggressive, and then your carb ratio could be less aggressive. Like, what's your carb ratio at?
Danette For breakfast, it's one to nine. Lunch is one to 14. Yeah. It's like one to 14 the rest of the day.
Scott Benner Okay. So, again, I might say a ton of stuff that's wrong, but you sound like you're a little out of your mind over this. So, like, let's just try to, like, kinda spitball here and see what we can kinda figure out. Okay? What I'm wondering is, is there a way to use more basal and less meal insulin to overall affect what's happening? Like, is that possible? Because if she's using twenty five a day, if you were gonna accept the fifty fifty split as, like, a place to start, basil to bolus, then she'd be, like, a half unit an hour or twelve units a day in basil, but you're doing half of that at six.
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Right?
Danette I mean, when we were on the Moby, like, if we had a good day so when I proposed to our care team that I wanted to take a pump break, I looked at all the days that she was in range 75% or more, and then I looked at the split between basal and bolus insulin. And the average bolus or the average basal insulin was, like, 5.75 units.
Scott Benner 5.75. Mhmm. Okay.
Danette I didn't wanna take into consideration those days where she had an air bubble or something and, like, control IQ is cranking out all this extra insulin, and she's getting, like, quote, unquote, twelve units a day when she obviously didn't if she was, like, three hundred all day. On those good days, her basal was as low as four and a half.
Scott Benner Does she have hypothyroidism? No. Have you ever had her TSH checked? Mhmm. Do you know what it was?
Danette I don't recall. She had all that run last year. She's due for it again.
Scott Benner Do you remember it being in range or how they talked about it?
Danette Everything was in range.
Scott Benner Did she have any symptoms of hypothyroidism?
Danette I don't believe so.
Scott Benner No. She's not tired all the time or No. Moody, cranky? Mm-mm.
Danette No? Okay. Great disposition. I mean, she rolls with everything.
Scott Benner Yeah. I'm trying to think of reasons why the insulin might not be working as well or is effectively. Not sure. There's part of me, by the way, that thinks that when we're completely done this conversation, we should immediately make a transcript of it, roll it through a large language model, and then see what it spits back out too. I'm Mhmm. Sort of interested in that because you've been through too much. Like, it seems to me that you've climbed up every tree there is to climb up, and you are probably confusing yourself at this point. You know, God bless her, where she's brittle. You know what I mean? Like, or something that's happening that we're unaware of or something like that. I don't know. Like, it just seems to me one to nine is I mean, when Arden's on a GLP, her carb ratio is one to nine, and she weighs a hundred and twenty five pounds.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner And, you know, is eating probably more aggressively than your little kid is over there. I'm just wondering if you don't have enough basil going, is everything just not working because of that? And that could be overly simplified. I have no idea. Does that make any sense to you, or does that sound crazy to you? I don't know you. Like, I'm just trying to work through what you said to me. So, like, if I said to you, you're using six units of basil right now, try eight tomorrow. Do you think that would, like, ruin things? Like, do you think it would crash her or something like that?
Danette I don't know. So like I said, last week, we just had a hell of a time with the insulin and things like that Yeah. Plus the antibiotic. So it was gonna be our opportunity to kinda reset. What I wanted to do is really dial in her settings, send her back to school with the shots, and be on our way. But because of the illness and the antibiotics and all that stuff, it was just not an ideal week to do that. So now we are trying to do that with her at school, with the activity. The only good thing about that is that she's got, you know, scheduled meals throughout the day, so she's not constantly eating like she was during spring break. But I don0't know. So for example, on Tuesday, she got her snack, and they dosed her for it plus a correction. She went low. So is that because the correction was too much? Is it because the basal was too much? Once I get her stable overnight, she's drifting down. Her line is not flat. So that makes me think that the basal is either too aggressive because she should just be flat. Right?
Scott Benner Yeah. Say it again for me. I'm sorry. Literally, just start over and say it one more time. I was thinking about something and I got lost for a second.
Danette Once I get her number in range Mhmm. Her number doesn't plateau out. She keeps drifting. Down. Down.
Scott Benner How many hours after her last bolus?
Danette Like, more than four or five.
Scott Benner And she drifts to a low spot or a place where you have to stop it?
Danette Yeah. We're treating. So high sixties.
Scott Benner Okay. So try to imagine a world where because right now, you're covering one unit is covering nine carbs. Okay? And she's getting what? Point two five an hour basically or six units a day of basil. And she's getting 25, basil and bolus combined.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner So if you look at a sixty pound person just with a standard basal rate, you're looking at, like, fifteen units a day total daily insulin. But we're saying that's not what she's doing. She's doing 25. I'm using an estimator that's on my website right now. I don't know if you've seen that before or not. So, basically, what I did was I put her weight in at sixty. And on a physiological factor profile of standard, it says her total daily insulin should be about fifteen units a day. Seven and a half total basal and an insulin to carb ratio of one to 33. But that's not her situation. She's using twenty five a day. Now is she using twenty five a day because you're creating lows and feeding her more often than you have to?
Danette I don't think so.
Scott Benner I don't know. But if you don't think so, okay. So I just make her highly resistant on the chart, which then puts her theoretical total daily insulin at, like, 24 and a half, which is matching what you're telling me. When that happens, it's indicating that her basal need should be about 12 a day or point five an hour, but that her carb ratio should be one to 20. So my thought here is is if you meaningfully upped the basal and meaningfully decreased the carb ratio, maybe that's where the balance is. Like, maybe you are as simply as if the basal is not right, nothing else is gonna work. Is it possible that that's the situation and that she's been gaining weight and changing and you've been switching from shots to this pump to that pump so much that you just aren't seeing enough to make a reasonable decision.
Danette Probably.
A Strategy for Resetting and Moving Forward
Scott Benner Is that possible? So if that's the case and if that's a thing you wanna look into, we just have to figure out a way for you to test it for a couple of days. So my thought would be spring break's over. Right? Yeah. Yeah. My thought would be to choose a lot of meals that you know how to bolus for. Do you see what I'm saying? And something that you're really good at. Because right now like, forget all the math for a second. Like, think of a lunch that you give her, and you know that if she gets a certain amount of insulin, it's gonna go well. Right? Like, what is that lunch? How much insulin is that?
Danette You know, I really couldn't even tell you.
Scott Benner Okay. Alright.
Danette There's just so many variables. Feel like this is why I look at her numbers constantly because I don't know if I'm gonna get what I expect.
Scott Benner Okay.
Danette We get different outcomes with the exact same situation. And, you know, when we talk to a nurse or a provider, it's like, well, that's just diabetes. And for me, that doesn't work because I want stability. I don't wanna have to call the nurse and say, hey. She just had this thirty point drop. You need to give her an applesauce. You need to give her juice. I don't wanna have to pay attention.
Scott Benner What's her insulin sensitivity? One unit moves or how far?
Danette So we have that at one fifty during the day because when she's on the pump, based on the types of auto corrections that she was getting, like, even a quarter unit or point two was making her go low with her activity schedule.
Scott Benner If this was me, I would be simultaneously moving the basal more aggressively while I make the carb ratio less aggressive. Just hoping that that puts me in a good enough place that I don't really have to worry about corrections for a minute because just the math on 25 units a day at her weight is saying point five an hour basil, one unit covers 20 carbs, one unit moves her 75. And I don't know if any of that would be right or not. Mhmm. But what I do know is it's nowhere near what you're doing. Let's just imagine for a second that 12 basal is right for her. I mean, that's it's aggressive for a sixty pound person. What I'm gonna say is is that it's possible that once you get these things kind of adjusted in better, you might find that her total daily insulin is not 25.
Danette Right.
Scott Benner It's gonna probably be lower than that by the time you do it, but you're not gonna be able to get to it if you're under baseling or over bolusing things, making her low, feeding her again, then drifting lower all night long and having to add food, which eventually needs insulin. So I don't know how much extra insulin you're using because of the the way things are happening. But I think if this was me, I'd move her basal up. I would be less aggressive on carb ratio using some foods that are not super fatty or difficult to bolus for or really sugary for a while just to get stable.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner Because I don't wanna sound like an old timey CDE here, but, like, it feels like what you need is, like, some good old fashioned basil testing
Danette Right.
Scott Benner To get that set in. And then once you're comfortable knowing, hey. Look. This basil's working. Now you could dial in the carb ratio a little bit and say, okay. You know, I'm good at this meal. Seems like one unit is covering x amount of carbs. Then get that closer. Then once you've got those two things figured out, then you can start fiddling with the sensitivity a little bit and trying to figure out what that is. Because your numbers are, like like, everything doesn't sort of make sense, which to me says the basal's not right.
Danette Right.
Scott Benner That's really I mean, that's it. To me, it doesn't she's getting six a day basil. I think it would be fair to try eight and then see what happens. It's Tresiba. Right? So what's it running like that weird clock? What do they say it's in there for? Thirty six hours till it's gone or something like that? Right? It kinda overlaps with the next injection. So if you wanted to move up more slowly, I would think that would make sense. Like, if you're six, go to six and a half, wait till your next injection. She's not getting low. Great. Let's go to seven. You know? And then with an eye on maybe seven and a half as maybe the baseline, And then, hopefully, you're using less insulin at meals because you've got more basil going. You will use less insulin at meals because you've got more basil going. Right?
Danette Right.
Scott Benner And then just keep kinda dialing that in. It probably shouldn't take you more than, a week to get that straight if that ends up being the issue. But I don't know what else it could be. Like, I mean, I am a little you know, she's had pus in her cannula, that kind of stuff. I don't think it's worth ignoring that maybe she's having allergic reactions and her sights aren't working well. Like, maybe that's why she's needing more insulin. But still, if that was the case, I mean, she's MDI right now. Right? So, I mean, even if that was the case, that's not gonna be a thing you're gonna notice right now. So if you got the settings great on MDI and then went back to a manual pump and they didn't work, but she was having inflammation around the cannula and stuff, then maybe you'll say, okay. She seems to be having a reaction to the cannula material, which is why her insulin needs are going up. Does any of this making sense at all to you?
Danette Yeah. It's just hard to think about when to implement that.
Scott Benner When to implement what?
Danette Like, to start titrating up and evaluating meals and things like that.
Scott Benner We're not gonna give her any more insulin than she's getting now. We're just gonna move it into different places.
Danette So
Scott Benner weekends here. Right?
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner She goes to school on Friday. When do you shoot the basil, in the morning or in the evening?
Danette Evening.
Scott Benner Awesome. So Friday night, move up a half a unit, and then live through Saturday using less insulin for meals. By how much? I I don't that's the thing is I don't really know. But, I mean, we could do some, like, rough math. Let's do this. So if she goes up just a half a unit a day, then what's the percentage of that?
Danette But won't it take time to see that? Because we're working that's another thing also is that we're working with an educator from Integrated Diabetes, and she said that Tresiba can take a couple days to
Scott Benner To change.
Danette Yeah. Yeah. So, like, you had to evaluate it, like, two days at a time, basically.
Scott Benner Yeah. Because it's not an in and out in twenty four hours kind of thing. It overlaps on itself. So some of some of the injection from Friday night is still going on Saturday night. But my point is is that you just a half the unit up on the basal, okay, And then, I don't know, change the insulin to carb ratio, make it a little weaker. Just a little bit. Just to kinda make up for it in case you're worried. But I don't imagine that another half a unit of Tresiba is gonna suddenly make her low all day long. And by the way, if it does, then you're gonna feed the insulin, and then, you know, you won't do it the next day. Like, it's gonna be like a a life and death situation if you move a half a unit at a time, almost a rounding error. Mhmm. To me, that's the only thing that makes sense is to get a better balance of the insulin going. But if it doesn't make sense to you I mean, I would go talk about it with other people. If you're using somebody integrated, I have that conversation with them. I wouldn't ask your doctors. They don't sound like
Danette Oh, no.
Scott Benner Yeah. They're just gonna say, oh, shucks, ma'am. You're looking too close at all this.
Danette Yes. Pretty much.
Scott Benner We got the sugar. It's what are you gonna do?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. Are you sleeping? No. No. Because you sound a little frazzled. Is that fair?
Danette Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in a really interesting situation. You're not the first person I met like this. You're like, I'm at my wit's end. I need something to do. What would you do? And I say, what about this? You go, I can't do that. I didn't laugh at you because you're in a dire situation today. No. But, like, but earlier when you said it, I was like, this is incredibly common because you're at the point now where you can't even fathom doing anything differently. Right? Like, it's just like, how do you even, like, contextualize making another change when all you've been doing is making changes for five years and nothing's working?
Danette Right.
Scott Benner I would say go back to basics on this one. If the basal's not right, then the boluses aren't gonna work. Gonna be higher. You're gonna be low. You're gonna be feeding insulin, or you're gonna be shooting more to get a a down. Get the basal right. Work on the carb ratio after that, then look at the insulin sensitivity at the end, which should be pretty easy by the time you have the two together. Mhmm. I think that's what you should be doing. I mean, the truth is is, like, if you just brought her here and left her here, I think I could get it straight for you. But it's because I've been sleeping, and I haven't been staring at this mess for five years. So I wouldn't be burdened by any of the what ifs. You said it earlier. Like, you're seeing ghosts at this point. Like, well, what if it's the cannula? What if it's the insulin? What if it's this? What if it's that? I say, stop thinking that it's any of that and just go back to the three things that we know definitely impact blood sugar. And if we can't get that right, then we could look at the what ifs again.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner That makes sense?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah? You sure?
Danette Yeah. I think
Scott Benner so. Okay. Do you feel any better now that we've talked?
Danette I mean, yes and no.
Scott Benner Why not? Tell me the no parts.
Danette It just seems like there are just so many different things. Like, oh, well then, I don't know. It it's always something. You know?
Scott Benner I asked you to stay in the three things and you're beyond them again. So are you anxious?
Danette I'm not an anxious person until it comes to this.
Scott Benner Okay. And because you feel like a failure?
Danette Yeah. Or I can't control it or she's not with me. So let me just go ahead and up her basal and send her to school. And, you know, the nurses won't let me text her to have a couple of gummies here and there. I have to wait for them to do it and hope there's not an emergency across the street that they're attending to. These are all just I don't wanna say stupid, but,
Scott Benner what ifs. Yeah. I understand. But so, are you a control freak?
Danette I mean, apparently.
Scott Benner Would you have seen yourself that way before? What would your husband say if I asked him? That the baby Oh
Danette my god. He would say, of course.
Scott Benner No. Okay. Well, then can I give you the greatest advice that you'll never get from your husband and wouldn't take from him if he gave it to you?
Danette Stop being crazy.
Scott Benner You should calm down. Yeah.
Danette Yeah. Yeah. You said that before. Yeah.
Scott Benner Just just listen. If I could just get my wife to listen to me one time. My wife's been telling me the same thing.
Caregiver Burnout and the Importance of Sleep
Scott Benner I want you to know that I got married in 1996. It is 2026 right now. I dated that girl before we were married. Okay? So I think we've been together something like thirty three years or something like that. My wife's a very hardworking person. Okay? She is, what we used to call type a, but now we call anxious. I said to somebody the other day, I can't wait to find out what we call it next time. Because, you know, remembering it used to be like, oh, they're wound pretty tight. Like, we've had all these little sayings for anxiety, like, throughout the world. My wife's an anxious person. She's also a go getter. She's a type a. She however you wanna think about it. You give her a job, she can do a really good job. Okay? And she's in an industry where something's always happening. Something's always happening. Probably 10 things are always happening. Probably a 100 things are always happening. She's always behind. My wife always says to me, when I get caught up, I can stop working so much. And I say to her, it's been thirty years. You haven't caught up yet. Maybe it's time to stop thinking that's gonna happen. But she's like, no. No. No. No. I'm gonna get it. That's the place you're at. In the end, those doctors are a little right. It is diabetes to some degree. Like, it's not a thing you're just gonna know black and white all the time. And if you don't have that art part of it, if you can't just go, well, let's turn this up and see what happens. You know what I mean? Like, if you can't do that part, then you are busy trying to cage a tiger made out of water. It isn't a thing you're gonna be able to make perfect, but you can get it close enough that perfect doesn't matter. And I think that's where somebody like me with this sort of like, hey. Let's just see what happens attitude. Mhmm. I think you're probably stuck in years of what you perceive as failure, which I would tell you is not failure. It's just not perfection. And you're stuck in a little bit of that feeling of I'm letting her down. I can't stop looking. I can't look away. If I look away, what if this happens? Like, those are a lot of uncontrollable things. It's probably how you get yourself in the situation. And I don't mean like you did it to yourself, but how you find yourself in the situation where a person who doesn't know you that well, who's only seeing you every three months says to you, maybe you should just be happy with what you got, which I think is their way of saying, lady, calm down.
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner But they can't say that to you because, you know, laws and polite and everything. But I think your settings are wrong. That's it. I think your settings are probably a little wrong. And once you got them a little closer, you wouldn't be chasing stuff around all the time. You probably wouldn't be over or under reacting to something causing the next problem because that's all that's happening. You need to start over. You need a baseline to start over at. I mean, you got the right idea, and you tried to do it at spring break, and then she got that infection. That must have felt like a cruel joke when that happened. Oh, yeah. Yeah. By the way, you're like, well, it's okay. Spring break will come next year again. I don't know. Like, you have to tell me honestly, do you think you can just I mean, I don't know. Do have weed? Like, is there a way you can calm down for a little bit and relax and just kinda, like, turn your focus down by 40%?
Danette I don't know. I guess if I'm intentional about it.
Scott Benner Yeah. That was very honest. You're like, not sure. Hey. Is your mom anxious?
Danette No. No?
Scott Benner Like, when it comes to this kind of stuff, like, the diabetes is the only thing that makes me anxious. That's something. I mean, I will tell you, I was talking to someone at work, and we're just kinda talking about life.
Danette He was like, oh, that must be really hard to constantly worry about your daughter. I was like, you know, I'm good at everything I have ever done. Like, no effort whatsoever successful. You name it.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Danette I can try things that I've never done before and just be good at them except for this. That's what it feels like.
Scott Benner Yeah. I think it may be the goalposts are getting not just moved on you, but maybe they're they've given you 10 goalposts and they're all moving at the same time, and you're trying to put them all where they belong. And that's just not how this is gonna work. Exactly. You know what I mean? I hate to do this to you. Like, it's timing and amount. You just have to put the right amount of insulin at the right time, and it'll work
Danette for you.
Scott Benner And so if you can at least, I think step one would be just try to believe that for a second and stop wondering what else could be happening.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner And then step two would be, I know that Tresiba doesn't they want you to have two days worth of data before you know if you're making a change or not. But, I mean, honestly, you only have the weekend. You have a Friday night injection, a Saturday night injection, and maybe a Sunday night injection to make a decision before you're gonna send her back to school on Monday and feel like, oh god, what did I do? They're not gonna let me call her. I can't give her a gummy bear, like, before all that hits you. So you're just gonna have to do it. And so maybe it's gonna take a bunch of weekends instead of a week. Like, maybe you're gonna have to go little more on Friday, little more on Saturday, pause, get to Friday, do it again, and it might take you maybe two or three weekends till you get the basal where it's supposed to be, and you start getting a better feel for what the carb ratio actually might be.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner That's possible. I mean, it sounds like a plan to me at least. Yeah. Oh, god. Was this helpful at all? Aren't you glad I didn't try to text this back to you? Oh my god. What'd you say? I said, aren't you glad I didn't try to just answer your email? Because I would have said something that would have just frustrated the hell out of you without the conversation, I think.
Danette Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just seems almost too simple. Like, for example, we took her all the way up to, seven and a half units of Tresiba. She was going low, so took it back down. Like, all this back and forth is just so maddening.
Scott Benner You know? Put her to seven and a half, did you change the carb ratio?
Danette Well, because we were on that bad insulin, we didn't make any changes. I did make a change today because yesterday, uncharacteristic. So we'd switched to the fias because we just weren't getting a lot of you know, we want that fast reacting insulin because they are not prebolising her at school, which is fine. It is what it is. But she's recess, like, right after lunch, and it's starting to get warm outside. So she is running super hard, and we're having to back off her doses. And now we can't do an extended bolus, which was helping us on the pump, right, to kind of do an eighty twenty split over an hour. And now we're losing that ability, so it's kind of relearning how we're gonna approach dosing. So it's just like you said, it's just so many things at once.
Scott Benner You have made more changes to that kid's regimen in five years than I've made in twenty years. Yeah. Yeah. Stop talking about diabetes for a second because you just said something that I wanna dig into in this last little bit here. I know you gotta go. You're probably like, how long is that lady pumping? I didn't even think she had a baby. You said I'm successful at a a lot of things. I just set upon doing something and I do it, which means that your gut usually gets you there. Right?
Danette Yeah.
Scott Benner Like, gut decisions work out, generally speaking. And so this is maybe part of the issue. It feels like you're trying to find the answer so hard. You're just not doing what common sense says. Like, so in a regular life situation, like taking the diabetes out of it, I changed this. I moved that. I did this over here. I can't get like, what would you tell yourself? You'd say go back to one. Simplify. Right? Like, just Mhmm. Simplify. Let's push out the external extraneous stuff. Focus on the keep ourselves alive ideas. Let's sit in the house and watch movies all weekend. Right? Like, life's overwhelmed. What do you do? Life gets overwhelming. You get to the weekend. You put a ball game on Friday night. You watch a movie on Saturday. You stare at a goddamn wall on Sunday, and you go back to work. Because you didn't, you were gonna, like, end up in a clock tower somewhere. Like right? So do that to diabetes. Just go back to go. Like, start over again. Mhmm. Forget all you think you know about what's happening, and just what does your gut tell you to do? Right? Like, get her basal right, set her carb ratio, work on the rest later. You keep saying, well, she's gonna run around. It's hot. There's this. There's that. You can't balance all that. Your brain isn't capable of that. I don't know we could feed all that into a machine and get out the right answer. So just control the parts you know, do it at a basic level, go to basic life support, control the parts you understand, see where that gets you, and build slowly. I think it's possible you maybe started too many projects all at once, so you don't know what's impacting what anymore. Mhmm. Does that ring true to you at all?
Danette Yeah. That's fair.
Scott Benner Yeah. Alright. Well, I fixed it. There. Good. Well, there you go. Do that then.
Danette If I can unsubscribe and I can stop listening then.
Scott Benner Well, hey, listen. If this works for you, you better download every episode. Just let it play overnight. I don't care if you listen or not. I feel like this has been a valuable conversation, but I don't know if it has or not. And you won't know for a while either. Yeah. Will you, like, reach out and let me know what's going on?
Danette Yes. I will.
Scott Benner Okay. If this actually works, you're gonna come back and record for, like, another half hour. Will you do that for me?
Danette I will.
Scott Benner And if it doesn't work, you can come back and yell at me. That'll be fine. Gosh. I hope you can on top of what I just said, you're married. Right? That guy didn't kick that boy out. Right? So No. I would tell him, on Friday night, I'm going to sleep, and you're taking care of that kid. And on Saturday night, I'll do it for you. But you and I are both sleeping ten hours at least once this weekend because I think that will help you. We didn't talk about it a lot, but from my personal experience, when you start getting low on sleep like this, that's when you start sounding like you're sounding when you're talking about stuff. You seem frazzled, and I'm telling you, like, sleep drips away slowly. You don't recognize it as it's escaping out through the seams, and it's not a thing you can power through even though you think you can. You get some good sleep, a lot of this might make more sense.
Danette Yeah. That's true.
Scott Benner Yeah. I'm being dead serious with you. Like, the light of day on good sleep, you make a lot of better decisions than you are right now. I listen. I've been married a long ass time. I don't have a serious conversation about anything after 8PM. Because when people are tired, and the later it gets, the worse it goes. And you're in the middle of that conversation, and you think you're right. You think it's important. You think it's right. You think it's life or death. I have to make this point right now. And you wake up in the morning, you think, what in hell were we arguing about last night? And I'm telling you that's all being tired. Mhmm. So I would do trade offs the next couple of weekends. Everybody gets a full night's sleep at least once on a weekend, get her stuff going a little better. Your life could look just completely different in a month. You know? But you gotta stop chasing all the ghosts and thinking you're actually gonna catch them all, name them, put them in order, make sense of them. None of that is probably even important. I heard you quote the podcast a bunch of different times in this hour. Don't forget, often, the best thing to do is nothing.
Danette Mhmm.
Scott Benner Yeah. Often, there's nothing to do. People just overengineer everything and touch too many buttons and, you know, and I mean life, not just diabetes. Yeah. Yeah. Chill out. Watch a movie. Go out for dinner. When's the last time you had sex? Do that. Try to chill out a little bit.
Danette All the things. I'll do all the things.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Do them all. Right. Act like you're 20. Was the weed idea good or you you don't do that?
Danette No. I don't do that.
Scott Benner Well, find something. Don't drink. Okay? I'm pretty sure drinking is bad. Alright. We're good?
Danette We're good.
Scott Benner Alright. Hold on one second for me. Okay? We're gonna
Danette stop. The
Scott Benner podcast episode that you just enjoyed was sponsored by Eversense CGM. They make the Eversense three sixty five. That thing lasts a whole year. One insertion. Every year? Come on. You probably feel like I'm messing with you, but I'm not. Eversensecgm.com/juicebox. The conversation you just enjoyed was brought to you by US Med. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. Get started today and get your supplies from US Med. Today's episode of the Juice Box podcast was sponsored by the new Tandem Mobi system and Control IQ Plus technology. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. Check it out. Okay. Well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me? Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribe in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me or Instagram, TikTok. Oh, gosh. Here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't wanna miss please, do you not know about the private group? You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. They're active talking about diabetes. Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now. And I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say hi. Have you tried the small sip series? They're curated takeaways from the Juice Box podcast voted on by listeners as the most helpful insights for managing their diabetes. These bite sized pieces of wisdom cover essential topics like insulin timing, carb management, and balancing highs and lows, making it easier for you to incorporate real life strategies into your daily routine. Dive deep, take a sip, and discover what our community finds most valuable on the journey to better diabetes management. For more information on small sips, go to juiceboxpodcast.com. Click on the word series in the menu. Have a podcast? Want it to sound fantastic? Wrongwayrecording.com.
#1844 Valyrian Steel
Suzanne discusses her 34-year journey with Type 1 diabetes , navigating chronic fatigue syndrome , and the challenges of caring for her 85-year-old mother who also has T1D.
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Key Takeaways
- Stress Directly Impacts A1C: High-stress situations, such as difficult relationships, can significantly alter blood sugar control and visibly impact A1C levels, highlighting the profound mind-body connection in diabetes management.
- Chronic Fatigue vs. Diabetes Burnout: While Type 1 Diabetes is a heavy burden, the predictability of its management differs greatly from the unpredictable, exhausting nature of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (MECFS), requiring intensive pacing and rest.
- Investigate Underlying Thyroid Issues: Unexplained fatigue, brain fog, and muscle weakness are classic symptoms of thyroid conditions like Hashimoto's. Medication sizing is crucial; overly high starting doses can cause anxiety and heart racing.
- Caregiving Complexities with T1D: Caring for an aging parent who also has Type 1 Diabetes introduces unique challenges, particularly when cognitive or dexterity issues prevent them from managing their own insulin pumps or CGMs.
- Dementia Symptoms Can Be Medically Induced: Apparent cognitive decline or dementia in the elderly can sometimes be the result of overmedication (e.g., stacked blood pressure drugs or statins). Reevaluating prescriptions can sometimes reverse these symptoms entirely.
Resources Mentioned
- Juice Box Podcast Facebook Group: Juice Box Podcast, Type One Diabetes
- Juice Box Podcast Lists: juiceboxpodcast.com/lists
- US Med: usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514
- Omnipod 5: omnipod.com/juicebox
- Wrong Way Recording (Rob): wrongwayrecording.com
- COVID Institute: covidinstitute.org
Sponsors and Announcements
Scott Benner Here we are back together again, friends, for another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Suzanne Hi, I'm Suzanne. (0:17) I've had type one for probably thirty four years. (0:21) I've had chronic fatigue syndrome for twenty four years. (0:25) I'm a musician, and I take care of my mother who also has type one, and she's been living with me for about seventeen months.
Scott Benner If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group, Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. (0:43) But everybody is welcome. (0:44) Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. (0:49) If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. (0:59) Alright.
Scott Benner Let's get down to it. (1:00) You want the management stuff from the podcast. (1:03) You don't care about all this chitting and chatting with other people. (1:06) Juiceboxpodcast.com/lists. (1:09) They are downloadable, easy to read, every series, every episode.
Scott Benner They're all numbered. (1:16) Makes it super simple for you to go right into that search feature in your audio app. (1:19) Type juice box one seven nine five to find episode 1795. (1:25) Juiceboxpodcast.com/lists. (1:30) Nothing you hear on the juice box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise.
Scott Benner Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. (1:46) This episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by US Med, u s med dot com slash juice box, or call (888) 721-1514. (1:57) Get your supplies the same way we do from US Med. (2:01) Today's episode is also sponsored by Omnipod. (2:05) Check out the Omnipod five now with my link, omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner You may be eligible for a free starter kit, a free Omnipod five starter kit at my link. (2:18) Go check it out. (2:19) Omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:22) Terms and conditions apply. (2:23) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox.
Diagnoses & Family History
Suzanne Hi. (2:29) I'm Suzanne. (2:30) I've had type one for probably thirty four years. (2:34) I've had chronic fatigue syndrome for twenty four years. (2:38) I'm a musician, and I take care of my mother who also has type one, and she's been living with me for about seventeen months.
Scott Benner Oh, I am excited to talk to you.
Suzanne Great.
Scott Benner Also, do you know that Suzanne is the name of the orangutan in the Jay and Silent Bob movies?
Suzanne In the what movies?
Scott Benner Yeah. (2:57) I didn't think you would know. (2:58) It's okay, Suzanne.
Suzanne No. (2:59) I did not know.
Scott Benner Yeah. (3:00) The people listening are the who know are like, oh, no kidding. (3:02) He's right. (3:03) Okay. (3:04) But the rest of you are going, I don't know what he's saying.
Scott Benner Anyway, let's figure out who you are. (3:10) How old are you?
Suzanne Okay. (3:12) I'm 62.
Scott Benner Oh, you have a young voice.
Suzanne Yeah. (3:16) You know, I I do. (3:17) I I think I've worked with kids a lot in my life, but I never had kids on my own, so it keeps me young.
Scott Benner I have to tell you. (3:24) I'm gonna take a I'm gonna take a page out of your book today. (3:26) I swear I thought you were in your thirties when you started talking.
Suzanne Oh, great. (3:31) Great.
Scott Benner I'm going
Suzanne with that. (3:32) Some days I feel like I'm in my nineties, so there you go. (3:35) Yeah. (3:35) We'll we'll get to that as well.
Scott Benner So Okay. (3:37) You're 62. (3:39) And when were you diagnosed with type one? (3:40) At what age?
Suzanne I was 28.
Scott Benner That's thirty four years ago.
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner And you say your mom has type one?
Suzanne She does. (3:50) Well, I mean, she when she was diagnosed, she was diagnosed as type two, and then she began to need insulin.
Scott Benner Okay. (3:58) What age was that for her?
Suzanne She was in her fifties, I believe.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne Yeah. (4:05) It it wasn't too long. (4:06) It was probably within a decade after I was diagnosed. (4:09) Well, how old is she now? (4:11) She's 85.
Scott Benner Damn. (4:13) Alright.
Suzanne Yeah. (4:14) Well, good for her. (4:15) She's got a fascinating story too.
Scott Benner So I think we're gonna pick through the whole thing, Suzanne. (4:20) Don't worry.
Suzanne Okay.
Scott Benner Okay. (4:21) So you're diagnosed thirty four years ago as an adult out of nowhere. (4:25) Did it feel Yes. (4:26) Yeah?
Suzanne Yeah. (4:27) It like, I have some distant relatives that had it, but it wasn't something we talked about in our family.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Suzanne I was a complete textbook case, but I had no idea. (4:37) And I was diagnosed in December, and I wasn't feeling well since the spring. (4:43) And I was a I'm a singer. (4:46) And the first thing was I lost my vocal range. (4:49) I had a range of about five notes, and I have a huge range.
Suzanne But so that was one thing, and then there was just all these little weird clues along the way. (4:57) And then it was a big surprise, finally.
Scott Benner You said distant relatives had type one, like aunts, uncles, second cousins, like
Suzanne Great great grandfather maybe and my grandfather's sister or something like that.
Scott Benner Okay. (5:12) So no nobody who you even were around any frequency. (5:16) Okay.
Suzanne Right.
Scott Benner How about other autoimmune stuff in your extended family?
Suzanne Not that I No? (5:24) Really know of. (5:25) That's okay. (5:25) Yeah.
Scott Benner How about your mom? (5:26) Does your mom have anything besides the diabetes?
Suzanne She's got some eczema, and she's got she's got fatty liver disease, but I don't I don't think that's autoimmune. (5:36) But the eczema probably definitely is.
Scott Benner Yeah. (5:39) Is she overweight?
Suzanne She was. (5:41) Now she's very thin.
Scott Benner Through the process of the end of her life? (5:45) Is that what's doing it, or do you think they're leaving her blood sugar?
Suzanne It probably could be. (5:51) We thought she had dementia when she moved in with me, but it turns out she doesn't. (5:55) But that's a whole another story in itself.
Scott Benner Oh, we're gonna get to how you misunderstood that your mom had dementia. (6:01) That's gonna be good too. (6:02) You Yeah. (6:03) You're gonna be a fount of conversation. (6:04) This is excellent.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne Know. (6:06) I'm like, I I hope we can like, hope I can get everything. (6:08) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (6:09) Everyone settle in. (6:10) I feel good about this. (6:11) Okay. (6:11) So you're Yeah.
Dating and Stress Impacts on A1C
Scott Benner You're you're single person. (6:13) Now you said you're not married, but have you ever been?
Suzanne No. (6:16) I I've never been married. (6:17) A few near misses, but no. (6:20) Yeah.
Scott Benner Do you mean that sadly or happily?
Suzanne Both. (6:27) You're like, oh, I got away with it a couple of times. (6:29) Scott, I almost got hooked up to a real dud. (6:32) But but, you know you know what? (6:34) I have an anecdote that you might be interested.
Suzanne First of all, three guesses who was my I I I live in Iowa, but I lived most of my adult life, and I was diagnosed living in Boston. (6:44) Okay. (6:45) So three guesses who one of my doctors was for a number of years.
Scott Benner God. (6:50) Just tell me.
Suzanne Doctor Handy was my doctor.
Scott Benner Really?
Suzanne Yeah. (6:55) Yeah. (6:55) I I he was great.
Scott Benner You heard him on the podcast. (6:57) You're like, that guy used
Suzanne to be my doctor. (6:59) Yeah. (6:59) I'm not I'm like, oh, doctor Handy. (7:01) Yeah. (7:02) And and it's funny because I didn't even know he was a weight expert because my weight was fine then.
Suzanne He was meant to tell me
Scott Benner Yeah. (7:08) Yeah.
Suzanne He he used to tell me my weight was perfect. (7:11) I mean, who doesn't need a guy in their life telling them that their weight is perfect?
Scott Benner Could use that, by the way.
Suzanne But, anyway, so I was I was yeah. (7:18) Anyway, I was trying to make a relationship work with somebody, and it was really affecting I I didn't really realize it until, of course, you know, I'd ended everything. (7:32) But it was really obvious from my a one c, and I told him, you know, I was trying to make a this relationship work. (7:39) Like, my a one c came way down after all of the stress. (7:42) And then, I'm not saying all relationships are that stressful. (7:46) This was a definitely a I've been in other relationships before that were not that stressful.
Scott Benner Can you explain to me? (7:52) This is after you're diagnosed?
Suzanne Yes. (7:54) And
Scott Benner Yeah. (7:55) And you're working through it's it's tough dating as an adult, isn't it?
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (7:59) Yeah. (8:00) You don't get to grow with the person. (8:01) You get, like, the fully formed person, then you have to see if you can make it fit, I would imagine. (8:05) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (8:06) Yeah. (8:06) You're dating someone. (8:07) It's going what you think is well enough to put effort into it, but it was stressful?
Suzanne Very stressful. (8:13) And and it was very obvious, the difference between my a one c when I was trying to make the relationship work and when I had ended it. (8:21) Wait. (8:22) Because of, like, adrenaline, cortisol, etcetera, or because you just weren't
Scott Benner focusing as well on yourself at that point?
Suzanne No. (8:28) I think it was just yeah. (8:29) I think it was just this this was a really, really stressful situation.
Scott Benner Oh, I didn't know that could happen. (8:35) I'm probably killing my wife and not realizing it. (8:38) Oh, well, if you hear this, Kelly, I'm sorry. (8:41) Yeah. (8:41) And
Suzanne No. (8:44) No. (8:44) It was just super stressful, and and and it was very obvious in the difference of my a one c. (8:49) And I I I mentioned that to doctor Hamdi. (8:51) So the next time I came to see the him, he's like, so what's going on with the boyfriend?
Suzanne And, you know, so
Scott Benner Did doctor Hamdi make you break up with him? (9:00) Is that what happened?
Suzanne No. (9:00) No. (9:01) No. (9:01) No. (9:01) No.
Suzanne And I and I I don't even think I'd mentioned him until, like, I saw, like, wow. (9:06) This is pretty this is pretty intense. (9:08) And he he wasn't like, oh, that couldn't be. (9:10) He was like, no. (9:10) Yeah.
Suzanne This happens.
Scott Benner No kidding. (9:12) I get I should probably tell people just because everyone doesn't listen to every episode of the podcast, much to my chagrin. (9:19) But Hamdi is in episode it would be nice if spell checker didn't change what I typed. (9:29) Fourteen eleven GLP essentials with doctor Hamdi. (9:33) He was really excellent.
Scott Benner Like, I got a lot of a lot of good feedback about him being on the podcast, actually.
Suzanne Yeah. (9:39) No. (9:39) I wish I I wish he was still my doctor right now.
Scott Benner Yeah. (9:42) So you moved away from him? (9:43) You broke up with him and the guy?
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Suzanne No. (9:45) No. (9:45) I moved back to Iowa. (9:47) I I, moved back to Iowa because I had I ten years into diabetes, I got chronic fatigue syndrome. (9:53) Oh, okay.
Suzanne I was I was really having a hard time just, you know, making life. (9:59) Very expensive to live in Boston for one thing.
Scott Benner Yeah. (10:02) But And cold. (10:03) I don't like the idea of how cold it is.
Suzanne You know, it's kinda the same here. (10:06) It's it's it's not always at the same time, but it's it's pretty much the same weather.
Scott Benner The same thing. (10:11) So would you you move home to be with your mom or to be around family?
Suzanne Yeah. (10:15) I I moved to to be with my mom, and I I lived with her for three years, and then I got my own apartment.
Scott Benner Wow. (10:21) It took you three years to get on your feet after that? (10:23) Was that was that financial or medical?
Suzanne Financial for one. (10:28) Yeah. (10:28) And I was I was able I was trying to get on disability when I was in Boston because I I loved being in Boston. (10:34) I got denied, and then I moved here. (10:37) And I I wasn't even gonna apply again.
Suzanne I was so frustrated, and I applied, and I got on right away. (10:44) And so then I I was able to get my own place after that.
Scott Benner What year was this?
Suzanne This was I moved at the 2014.
Scott Benner 2014. (10:54) Okay.
Suzanne And then I I think I got my own place at the 2018.
Scott Benner And how did that impact diabetes, the chronic fatigue?
Suzanne It's hard to say, but I I will say one thing. (11:06) The difference between chronic fatigue and diabetes. (11:09) So diabetes, you know, I'm feeling sick. (11:13) I finally go to the doctor. (11:16) He sends me to the ER.
Suzanne I'm in DKA. (11:19) I spend a week there. (11:21) I was in intensive care for the first three or four days. (11:24) I was a mess. (11:25) My doctor didn't think I was gonna he was surprised to see me the next day.
Suzanne But I'm there. (11:30) I come out, and then I live my life. (11:32) I have to check my blood sugar. (11:34) I have to take insulin, but I'm living my life. (11:37) With chronic fatigue, you feel sick.
Suzanne You go to lots of doctors, and they don't have any answers. (11:43) And, you know, and you don't get your life back. (11:46) So
Scott Benner Has anything helped over the years?
Suzanne Yeah. (11:51) I'm sure lots of little things that I don't even realize that if I stop doing, it's just a lot of pacing and having to yeah. (11:58) It it Sounds like long COVID. (12:00) Yeah. (12:01) It it it a lot of people say it's pretty much the same thing.
Suzanne And I I even had my doctor, like, go on a a doctor had me go on a protocol, and I was lot of supplements, and I was just too sensitive to a lot of the supplements to
Scott Benner Have you ever had in the past, like, Epstein Barr? (12:19) Or
Suzanne I don't know. (12:20) Like, it's like, the tests I've had for that are kind of what's the word? (12:25) Either equivocal or unequivocal or like like like, probably.
Scott Benner Said, I don't know. (12:31) Is that right?
Suzanne Yeah. (12:32) Yeah. (12:32) Yeah. (12:32) Yeah. (12:32) And I've I've had one virus called h h v six.
Suzanne That's a virus that I have had, and I've I've I I was gonna treat for it, and then I decided not to. (12:44) I you know, it's kind of a six of one half dozen of the other dealing with side effects and all that. (12:50) So I mean, I've tried so many different things. (12:52) I've recently done like an adrenal program and I've worked with the same doctor previously when I was first diagnosed, but it's still yeah. (13:03) I feel like I'm getting worse lately, like, my fatigue.
Suzanne And and I feel like I'm having new issues now, and I'm just like, okay.
Scott Benner I'm I'm doing some picking while you're talking. (13:14) Viruses linked to the onset, Epstein Barr virus is just mono HHV six influenza, SARS viruses that are COVID relatives, but, you know, it was 2014. (13:25) Not that you couldn't have gotten a different virus previous to that. (13:29) It often goes hand they don't call it autoimmune, but there's doctors who talk about it like it is.
Omnipod and US Med Promos
Scott Benner This episode is brought to you by Omnipod.
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Scott Benner So one time, I didn't respond to the email And the phone rings at the house. (15:02) It's like, ring. (15:03) You know how it works. (15:04) And I picked it up. (15:05) I was like, hello?
Scott Benner And it was just the recording. (15:07) It was like, US Med. (15:08) Doesn't actually sound like that, but you know what I'm saying. (15:10) It said, hey. (15:11) You're, I don't remember exactly what it says.
Scott Benner But it's basically like, hey. (15:14) Your order's ready. (15:14) You want us to send it? (15:15) Push this button if you want us to send it. (15:18) Or if you'd like to wait, I think it it lets you put it off, like, a couple of weeks or push this button for that.
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Hashimoto's and Thyroid Symptoms
Suzanne Yeah. (16:02) Do you
Scott Benner have Hashimoto's?
Suzanne When okay. (16:03) When I was first getting the, dealing with the fatigue, I went to a naturopath, and she took some tests and I had a lot of antibodies for my thyroid. (16:14) I've never been able to take thyroid medication. (16:16) I have a doctor that tests my thyroid on the regular. (16:19) With diet and such, I was able to get all my antibodies to go away, but I feel like I probably should be tested again.
Scott Benner Yeah. (16:26) I mean, do you remember how long ago was it that you were tested the last time you got a full thyroid panel?
Suzanne A full thyroid panel. (16:33) Probably probably within the year.
Scott Benner Do know what your TSH was then?
Suzanne It's always super normal. (16:39) Like, it's You know what that TSH what?
Scott Benner Numbers. (16:43) What does that mean? (16:44) Numbers?
Suzanne Ugh. (16:45) I forget.
Scott Benner Because I say I'm super normal, but then people meet me and they don't say the same thing.
Suzanne So Okay. (16:50) I can I can look it up while we're chatting?
Scott Benner Would probable.
Suzanne Yeah. (16:53) Yeah. (16:53) Absolutely. (16:54) Okay. (16:54) Absolutely.
Scott Benner Thank you. (16:55) I wanna keep talking about this for a half a second.
Suzanne Sure.
Nicotine Patches and Long COVID
Scott Benner You're describing feeling like, you know, my wife talks about long COVID. (17:04) We we, like, zapped her out of long COVID with nicotine patches.
Suzanne Wow.
Scott Benner And so if you haven't heard that, it's, like, at the end of an episode somewhere. (17:14) So I'll I'll go back over it with you for a second, and I have no idea if these two things, like, will interact. (17:21) But while I'm talking to our overlords and you're speaking, I said, can nicotine help with this? (17:27) And it says some people think nicotine might help. (17:29) But right now, the evidence is very weak and mostly theoretical.
Scott Benner Nicotine affects several systems that appear abnormal in MECFS, nervous system, brain alertness, inflammation, etcetera, anti inflammatory pathways. (17:42) Nicotine can activate something called the, oh my god, cholinergic anti inflammatory pathway, which may reduce inflammatory signaling from the immune system. (17:52) So I'm gonna ask it in COVID in long COVID patients. (17:58) The nicotine spike protein idea. (18:00) Some research proposes that SARS CoV two spike protein interacts with nicotine receptors.
Scott Benner These receptors are involved in automatic nervous system regulation, inflammation control, brain signaling, muscle function. (18:13) The theory suggests the spike protein might interfere with these receptors, which could contribute to symptoms seen in long COVID, POTS, severe fatigue, and brain fog. (18:23) So nicotine binds to those same receptors. (18:26) So the idea is is that nicotine might compete with the spike protein at the receptor and restore the signaling. (18:32) And I will tell you that, you know, my wife was sort of at wit's end with long COVID.
Scott Benner And I had heard
Suzanne this know what it's like. (18:41) You know what this is like.
Scott Benner Parifying. (18:43) Absolutely. (18:43) So, you know, go to the mall, come home, three days resting?
Suzanne Yeah. (18:48) Yeah. (18:48) Exactly. (18:48) Exactly. (18:49) Like like, I'm I'm very excited about this interview, but I'm like, okay.
Suzanne At least I'm very glad I don't have anything else that I have to do today.
Scott Benner Right. (18:56) No. (18:56) No. (18:57) No. (18:57) I've I've I've seen it for a while now.
Scott Benner I saw some people online talking about it. (19:01) Seemed like bro science at that point. (19:04) And but I still mentioned it to my wife. (19:05) Let me clear my throat. (19:06) Anyway, she, poo pooed me.
Scott Benner And Uh-huh. (19:09) As she should have, by the way. (19:11) And Yeah. (19:11) And then I'm talking to a lady on the podcast a few years later a few months later, excuse me, and she says, oh, I've, you know, really getting my long COVID, under control. (19:21) And I was like, how'd you do that?
Scott Benner And she goes, oh, you know, I hope this doesn't sound crazy, but I use nicotine patches. (19:25) And I was like, oh, I've heard of that. (19:27) We talked it through, and I went on Amazon, ordered nicotine patches, and, you know, basically said to my wife, like, know, just do this. (19:35) What could Mhmm. (19:36) You know, it's not gonna hurt you.
Scott Benner It's not like it's not it's not like your your head's gonna pop off. (19:41) Like, put the nicotine patch on once every twenty four hours, and let's see what happens. (19:44) And I'd say about three weeks into it, I overheard her on a call with a colleague telling them, my husband, like, he suggested this, and I feel a lot better now. (19:53) And it really did help
Suzanne her Wow.
Scott Benner Astonishingly. (19:56) Anyway
Suzanne I I mean, I I it might be worth a try. (19:58) I'm very sensitive, like, to a lot of things, so it's like I have to be careful with, like, regular coffee.
Scott Benner Start with half a patch. (20:06) Cut it in half.
Suzanne Yeah. (20:08) Yeah. (20:08) You know, I I mean so I I I did find my TSH, and I'm 2.23.
Scott Benner Yeah. (20:13) See, I would tell you to listen to episode four thirteen of the podcast where, integrative doctor and endocrinologist is gonna tell you that anything over two one with symptoms needs medication.
Suzanne I've tried thyroid medication many times, and I
Scott Benner It brings your TSH down, but doesn't make you feel better?
Suzanne I can't even take it for, more than a week. (20:33) What happens? (20:35) I what's the word? (20:37) I can't describe it, but I feel horrible. (20:39) Like, I it's it's it's kinda makes me, like, race.
Suzanne Like, I I can't
Scott Benner Oh, your heart races?
Suzanne Not my heart. (20:46) No? (20:46) Just my whole being. (20:48) I I can't even explain it.
Scott Benner It's How much are they giving you?
Suzanne Always go with the lowest doses. (20:53) We always start with the and I and I have a great doctor.
Scott Benner I believe you.
Suzanne Well, I it's funny. (20:58) Like, she has a a functional medicine practice, but she can't see me there because I can't afford her prices. (21:06) But I see her at another clinic that she works at through my insurance, so she doesn't have all the time to but but she she does what she can for me. (21:14) And so she she tests she constantly tests my and I'm always on the low end of normal. (21:20) So she's like, well, let's just try something.
Suzanne So I've tried different forms. (21:24) I've tried Cytomel. (21:25) I've tried I think I did Armour a long time ago, and I didn't think it did anything, and so I stopped. (21:32) But I think I should try that again, but my insurance doesn't pay for it. (21:35) Not that I wouldn't She was giving you the t three without the t four?
Suzanne We've tried everything. (21:40) Oh. (21:40) We've tried the we've tried all the things. (21:43) Did you ever tried sakes.
Scott Benner Tirosint? (21:46) It's like a Yeah. (21:47) Yeah. (21:47) You tried that either.
Suzanne It's funny.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne It's funny because I was going through some stuff, and I found it the other day. (21:51) And I you know, I was like, oh, yeah. (21:53) I should probably throw this out. (21:54) Or
Scott Benner pop one in your mouth and see what happens. (21:57) Yeah. (21:57) So you're telling me that when you're on the lowest dose, it speeds you up?
Suzanne Yeah. (22:03) And not a and not a and not a comfortable way.
Scott Benner Okay. (22:06) I you know, I understand that part. (22:07) Like, did you try to go to, like, every other day? (22:10) Or
Suzanne Did I might have. (22:12) I don't remember.
Scott Benner Because what other what do you have all the classic, like, Hashimoto's symptoms?
Suzanne Lately, I have the weight gain, and that's been in the last few years.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Suzanne Remember what the classic symptoms are?
Scott Benner Well, fatigue, persist yeah. (22:28) Yeah. (22:29) Persistent tiredness, low energy even after sleeping, weight gain. (22:33) Yeah. (22:33) Usually, five and twenty pound range happens even when you're eating less.
Scott Benner Cold intolerance, do you have that?
Suzanne Sometimes, but not all the time. (22:43) I get actually, I get hot a lot.
Scott Benner Okay. (22:45) Brain fog, slower thinking memory? (22:47) Yeah. (22:48) Okay.
Suzanne Big time. (22:48) I mean, that's been for twenty four years.
Scott Benner Depression or low mood?
Suzanne Can be. (22:54) Yeah.
Scott Benner Hair, skin, and appearance. (22:55) We're looking for hair loss on
Suzanne the scalp, loss of the outer third of your eyebrows. (23:00) Probably the eyebrow thing. (23:01) And I I've gone through bouts of hair loss. (23:04) Right now, I'm I'm not, but, you know, like, it just kinda comes and goes.
Scott Benner Yeah. (23:08) Suzanne, do you wanna keep going, do you wanna assume that you have Hashimoto's? (23:12) Rough or flaky skin, pale or yellowish tone?
Suzanne No. (23:16) Not really.
Scott Benner Okay. (23:17) Puffy face around your eyes?
Suzanne Maybe.
Scott Benner Brittle nails?
Suzanne Yeah. (23:22) That's I mean I mean yeah. (23:24) Definitely.
Scott Benner Constipation, muscle weakness?
Suzanne The muscle weakness is new. (23:29) I mean, the fatigue has been going on for twenty four years. (23:31) Yeah. (23:32) But the the muscle weakness is really within the last few years.
Scott Benner Okay. (23:35) Joint or muscle aching?
Suzanne They'll come and go.
Scott Benner Back in the day, heavy or irregular periods?
Suzanne Yes.
Scott Benner Low libido? (23:44) Sorry, Suzanne.
Suzanne Probably not. (23:46) Oh,
Scott Benner no. (23:47) You're still getting after it? (23:49) Suzanne, is that what you're telling me? (23:50) What is what is happening right now?
Suzanne I'm just saying I'm just saying
Scott Benner Oh, probably you don't wanna answer?
Suzanne No. (23:54) It's just kind of a sensitive question, but Sure it is.
Scott Benner Well, maybe that's a podcast. (23:59) If it was Yeah. (24:00) You know, if it was PBS, I probably wouldn't have asked you. (24:03) So you don't have to answer anything you don't wanna answer.
Suzanne Okay.
Scott Benner Okay? (24:07) Anxiety, heart palpitations, sweating, irritability.
Suzanne That can be. (24:11) Yeah.
Scott Benner Okay. (24:12) Wow.
Suzanne Also Go ahead. (24:14) That's all I mean, I I just don't I don't know. (24:16) I just don't think I have Hashimoto's, but but I I know that if I if I don't eat right, like, well, maybe, you know, maybe because diet has kinda kept things at bay. (24:26) But right now, yeah, nothing's keeping anything at bay.
Scott Benner I mean, listen. (24:30) A lot of these things are, like, vagaries that, like, apply to a lot. (24:34) It's a it's a problem with, like, a lot of autoimmune stuff, actually.
Suzanne Right? (24:38) Right. (24:38) Right.
Scott Benner Is it you just can be like, hey. (24:40) Do you have this? (24:40) Like, yeah. (24:41) Sort of 40 other things.
Suzanne Yeah. (24:43) No. (24:43) No. (24:43) The yeah. (24:44) The the nonspecific symptoms.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner When you're on the meds, racing heart, anxiety, jitteriness, sweating, trouble sleeping, shakiness, feeling amped up. (24:53) You had those things? (24:55) Okay. (24:56) Did it start with palpitations?
Suzanne No. (24:59) I don't I don't think I had palpitations that
Scott Benner I know of. (25:02) The Internet says that it that very possibly just has to do with the dose being too high.
Suzanne But we always we always started low. (25:10) Like like, if if the doctor said, oh, take this dose, I'll be like, oh, no. (25:14) Let's take it even lower.
Scott Benner You were able to, like, take half even or,
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (25:19) Did it happen, like, as soon as you put the first pill in, or did it take a little bit of time?
Suzanne Both. (25:25) Usually we usually took a day or two, at least.
Scott Benner Yeah. (25:28) You are a lightweight, though, generally speaking. (25:30) Like, a lot of stuff impacts you.
Suzanne Yeah. (25:32) I'm I'm very sensitive.
Scott Benner Yeah. (25:33) Yeah. (25:33) That was nice. (25:34) So a nicer way to say it. (25:35) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (25:35) I'm sorry. (25:36) Yeah. (25:36) I am very similar. (25:37) Like, when I if I go for a procedure and they put me out, I'm like, you're not gonna eat much of that.
Scott Benner I'm like Yeah. (25:42) I'm like, I'll go out pretty easy. (25:43) Okay. (25:43) Well, I mean, listen. (25:44) I'm sorry.
Scott Benner I'm not I would just I'm just trying to help you, like, think through it.
Suzanne Appreciate it. (25:49) You know? (25:49) I feel like I wish I had house in my life except without the drug problem and the snarky attitude.
Scott Benner I don't know.
Suzanne You know? (25:56) Somebody who's like, we're gonna figure this out. (25:58) You know?
Scott Benner I thought the attitude was fun. (26:00) The drug problem was weird.
Suzanne Well, wouldn't be a show without the attitude.
Scott Benner I I guess you're right. (26:04) Yeah. (26:05) I guess you're absolutely right. (26:08) I yeah. (26:09) I don't know.
Scott Benner Like, it I mean, if it's Hashimoto's and you need the medication, then just splitting doses or just using a much lighter dose could possibly be your answer. (26:20) Like, as much as you didn't like how you felt when you were on it, did it dissipate some of the other problems?
Suzanne Not that I know of. (26:27) And and I think I think the reason I got so crazy on it is because I don't really need it. (26:34) I don't think that's really my root issue.
Scott Benner Yeah. (26:36) I take your point. (26:36) Like, if you didn't need it, this is exactly the outcome that would come from it. (26:39) Yeah. (26:40) Yeah.
Scott Benner For sure.
Suzanne But but I I I don't know. (26:41) But but I I am gonna have I was thinking I should have doctor my doctor do a, a thyroid panel next time I go see her a full one.
Scott Benner Yeah. (26:50) It's a shame. (26:50) I mean, honestly, though, I mean, for $30, you got nicotine patches coming from Amazon. (26:55) So
Suzanne Right.
Scott Benner You know, I mean, I would tell you the same thing I told my wife. (26:59) If there's seven milligram patches, it's $30 for 14 patches. (27:03) So I basically I think I paid $60 for a month. (27:06) She did it for a month, and she was, like, better. (27:09) So Okay.
Scott Benner I but I will tell you, I have dabbled with them just so I understood what was happening to her. (27:16) And it would be fair to tell you that after not using one for a while, I I tried to just slap one on again because she stopped and started, I wanted to see what was coming from stopping and starting. (27:28) And it like, I did like, I got nauseous from it. (27:32) Like, it was too much for me. (27:33) So I would if I was if you do this, I would definitely start slower.
Scott Benner Like, there's a world where I might even, like, quarter those patches up and wear, a quarter of it for twenty four hours just to try to get yourself accustomed to it or be you know, make a science experiment out of it and figure out how much of it. (27:49) I'm not saying a quarter is the right amount, but, like, just to give yourself a little bit of it and see if you can ramp up to it. (27:55) Because, I mean, honestly, for, you know, for a month's worth of trying something, if it actually helped you, like, think how amazing that would be.
Suzanne Right. (28:04) Right. (28:04) No.
Scott Benner She's not continuing to do it. (28:06) She just did it, and she stopped.
Suzanne Wow. (28:09) That's that's interesting. (28:10) Yeah. (28:10) Look at you can look it up.
Scott Benner There's a website online that talks about, nicotine and COVID if you wanna look into it.
Suzanne Can you recommend a brand?
Scott Benner I was using Havitrol.
Suzanne Havitrol?
Scott Benner H a b I t r o l. (28:23) There's other ones. (28:23) Okay. (28:24) Some of them are Okay. (28:25) Less expensive.
Suzanne Okay. (28:27) Well, just sometimes you go you go to look for something, and there's a million choices. (28:31) Yeah. (28:31) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne Can somebody just give me a the work for the
Scott Benner Tell me what to do, please. (28:36) Yeah. (28:37) I'm not yeah. (28:37) I I have to find let me see if I can find the, nicotine protocol. (28:46) It's covidinstitute.org.
Scott Benner It it'll talk about nicotine. (28:54) What nicotine cannot do, nicotine doesn't it's it's so funny. (28:57) Like, everyone online says nicotine, like, like, interacts with the receptor. (29:03) And so it doesn't actually it doesn't touch the spike protein itself, and I don't even know. (29:10) I'm I'm looking here.
Scott Benner It weakly binds to the alpha seven nicotine receptor on a different site, the spike protein. (29:17) So it's unable to dislodge the spike protein from the nicotine. (29:19) Oh, see, this is interesting. (29:21) So covidinstitute.org is telling you nicotine is not gonna work on long COVID.
Suzanne Mhmm.
Scott Benner That's interesting. (29:29) And if you go to a different
Suzanne website didn't know that. (29:33) Right?
Scott Benner No. (29:34) No. (29:34) I mean, honestly, like, yeah, I just went with what the lady on the like, the conversation. (29:38) Like, look. (29:38) I tried it, and it really helped me.
Scott Benner And I thought, well, for $30, we can get going and see.
Suzanne Yeah. (29:43) Yeah. (29:43) It's all
Scott Benner over the place. (29:45) Nicotine patches could help. (29:46) Nicotine patches won't help. (29:48) Blah blah blah. (29:49) The world is so interesting, isn't it?
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne When I when I, was first dealing with the fatigue, everybody was tell all the doctors were telling me I was depressed, and that's why I was tired. (29:59) And so they started me on the tour of SSRIs and and I didn't have a good experience with those. (30:06) I took several and finally, I was like, I'm done with this. (30:09) And I'd read about this stuff called five HTP
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Suzanne In a magazine, and I thought, what the heck? (30:17) And I tried it, and it really helps with my mood.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne It it really so, you know, it's like sometimes you're just like, I'm just gonna try this.
Scott Benner And Hey. (30:26) Listen. (30:26) When you're in your situation, I say why not?
Suzanne Yeah. (30:29) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (30:31) Because if it's not thyroid and, I mean, the SSRI thing, that's just what they do to ladies when they I know. (30:37) They have your complaints. (30:39) That's just the bull thing they do.
Suzanne That's that's why when I go to the doctor and they say, are you depressed? (30:45) I'm like, I'm good. (30:46) Just like, don't wanna
Scott Benner Now everything's fine.
Suzanne I'm I don't wanna go down that route.
Scott Benner I love chronic pain and fatigue. (30:53) Thank you. (30:53) Yeah. (30:54) Yeah. (30:54) And five HTP precursor to serotonin serotonin, it can increase serotonin or melatonin, help with mood calmness, pain regulation, sleep.
Scott Benner Yeah. (31:05) It's interesting. (31:05) Mood and anxiety. (31:06) Low thyroid function could be associated with lower serotonin signaling, so raising serotonin may help with low mood, irritability, anxiety, feeling mentally overwhelmed. (31:16) Interesting.
Suzanne Yeah. (31:18) Yeah.
Scott Benner Very good.
Suzanne So I under I'm I'm I'm I'm not adverse to just trying something.
Scott Benner Sure. (31:23) No. (31:23) It doesn't sound like it. (31:24) Yeah. (31:24) Now you were like, hey.
Scott Benner I heard of something in a magazine. (31:26) I'll swallow it.
Suzanne Yeah. (31:27) Exactly. (31:28) It
Scott Benner sounds crazy. (31:31) I mean, a little, but I think maybe one more generation of people living on the Internet, no one's gonna think of that oddly anymore. (31:38) You know what I mean?
Suzanne Like Right.
Scott Benner Yeah. (31:40) Because you and I are old enough to remember if somebody said something to you, you're like, that is crazy because you didn't know about it or couldn't talk to anybody else.
Suzanne Yeah. (31:48) Right. (31:49) Right. (31:49) Right.
Caregiving for an Aging Parent with T1D
Scott Benner How do you deal with the the diabetes? (31:53) Is it a pretty successful thing? (31:55) Is it a background thing for you, or is it a thing that even years later, you still struggle with?
Suzanne Well, here's the thing. (32:01) I I feel like when I was first diagnosed, I took it in stride. (32:06) Like, I it was a background thing.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne You know? (32:10) I mean, like like you always say, you know, if you're gonna have diabetes, this is the time in the world to have it. (32:15) You know? (32:16) Like, we've got the tools. (32:18) You know, I was grateful to to be able to do finger sticks even at the beginning.
Suzanne And and right now, I I do a closed loop with tandem, and that that's been pretty good. (32:29) But the thing about it is now that I have chronic fatigue, it's it's just another burden. (32:37) Diabetes is like a burden. (32:39) And then now taking care of my mother with diabetes Yeah. (32:42) And and just everything from dealing with customer service to dealing with, you know, just the site changes and like, if I'm gonna go away I mean, this is a big thing right now.
Suzanne Like, I I was able to travel a couple times last year. (32:57) Mhmm. (32:57) I went for I used to go for, like, six weeks at a time because I don't I don't have a lot of money, and all my close friends are in Boston, so I'll just go there.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne But now I, you know, I I could only I went for first, I went for one week. (33:09) The second time, I went for, I think, two or three weeks. (33:13) And finding people to change her stuff was really hard. (33:18) And we live in a smallish city, and so just finding people to deal with that was was really, really difficult. (33:26) So now it's it's it's more it's it's more of a burden.
Scott Benner Okay. (33:31) Yeah. (33:31) Be because it's two people?
Suzanne Because it's two people and I have chronic fatigue.
Scott Benner And you have chronic yeah.
Suzanne And and also because just finding caregivers that like, my mom almost went into an independent living facility a couple months ago. (33:48) I talked to one of the administrators, I'm like, Well, the thing is are we gonna be able to have somebody that can help her? (33:55) Because she can't do her site changes now. (33:59) Yeah, she stopped being able to do that about seventeen months ago.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Suzanne So I have to do all that for her. (34:06) And just to and the guy was like, oh, yeah. (34:08) We have a lot of people in her situation. (34:10) And then when I talked to the actual people that do it, they had no idea what to do with a pump, no idea not much idea about a CGM. (34:18) A lot of people there do wear CGMs, but they're able to do them themselves.
Suzanne And it it was just like, woah. (34:25) This is this is crazy.
Scott Benner I like when they're like, no. (34:27) We know all about it. (34:28) We mistreat people with type one diabetes all the time here.
Suzanne Yeah. (34:31) And and then when when it came down to it, they found somebody that could do it, but it was gonna cost about $560 a month just for somebody to come in for, you know, like, ten minutes and, like like, a few a couple of times a week.
Scott Benner Really? (34:47) And what what do you do? (34:48) Are you going over and helping her?
Suzanne Well, see, this was in a different town that I live in. (34:52) And I would I would eventually move there, but I'm I'm just not ready to pick up and move right now. (34:57) She had a friend there, and it would kinda be a fun place for her to be. (35:01) Like, she'd have a lot of of social interaction. (35:03) And so it was it wouldn't I wouldn't be able to just come over and do it.
Suzanne Mhmm. (35:09) Or at least for a while until I, you know, packed up and moved.
Scott Benner Is there a big, mental health component to this? (35:17) Like, do you feel like you're not helping her as much, or is it more of a strain on you? (35:22) Like, what's the the, I guess, the psychological impacts to your mom being in this situation?
Suzanne The cycle impact on me? (35:30) Yeah. (35:31) On you. (35:31) Yeah.
Scott Benner Do you feel like you're
Suzanne I yeah. (35:33) You know
Scott Benner what I mean?
Suzanne It's it's too much. (35:35) It's and and it's, actually, it's it's been amazing, though. (35:39) I'm I'm grateful, but it it has been a lot. (35:43) Like, it it's not even just that. (35:44) It's that I have to do all her financial stuff as well.
Suzanne And it's just it's just kind of and and I I have you know, I'm I'm wanting to to work on some music right now. (35:54) And so it's just it's just hard to find time to to, you know, balance everything. (35:58) And I and I teach a little bit as well. (36:01) So it's it's just kinda like I sometimes I feel like I'm just kinda circling the know?
Scott Benner Suzanne's like, listen. (36:07) I'm giving up. (36:08) This is what I'm this is what I would do. (36:09) Yeah. (36:10) Would just I'm here to tell you all.
Suzanne Yeah. (36:13) No. (36:13) I mean, it's just I'm and also, I'm I'm I'm kind of I'm kind of sick of of self care for myself, you know, just I have, a special diet and all and I'm just I'm just like, ugh. (36:24) You know? (36:24) Like
Scott Benner Too much to to to be thinking about constantly.
Suzanne Yeah. (36:28) It's just it's just kinda too much. (36:30) But but but my mom is a really delightful person, and so I'm grateful that I'm able and I I was just talking to a friend of mine this morning, and she reminded me that if I didn't have diabetes and I hadn't learned a whole lot about natural medicine, I wouldn't be able to help my mom the way that I have been.
Scott Benner Yeah. (36:47) I mean, there's high sides to all this, but it doesn't change what a burden it
Suzanne is. (36:50) No. (36:51) It doesn't. (36:51) It it doesn't. (36:52) It doesn't take that away.
Scott Benner Are you anxious?
Suzanne I can be, but I'm not usually, but I I can be.
Scott Benner Okay. (37:00) The burden of this is really about time and energy then?
Suzanne Yeah. (37:04) Yeah. (37:04) Okay.
Scott Benner Yeah. (37:05) You think if you had energy the way other people do, maybe it wouldn't feel the same to you?
Suzanne Oh, yeah. (37:10) Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner Okay. (37:11) Yeah. (37:11) Because you do seem excited to help her. (37:13) Actually, like, happy to help her, I guess.
Suzanne Yeah. (37:16) Well, in most days, yeah. (37:18) A
Scott Benner lot. (37:18) Yeah.
Suzanne Yeah. (37:19) It's it's like, you know, some days when I've like like, my pump has run out and I've had to do like, it it only takes, like, five, ten minutes, but it's like and then then hers will run out or her her pump will, like, malfunction or, you know, just something like that, and you gotta call customer service and da da da. (37:35) You know, it all happens at the same time. (37:37) And
Scott Benner I just had to go to the pharmacy yesterday, and they messed everything up so much that I got home and nothing was the way it was supposed to be, and I had to go back. (37:46) And as I left the house, I said to my wife, I feel capable of dealing with this, but just in case things go sideways, I'll see you at the police station.
Suzanne And I and I and I was
Scott Benner I was on my way out the door again. (37:58) I know how you feel.
Suzanne Exactly. (38:00) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (38:01) Ex Do you have brothers or sisters?
Suzanne I do. (38:05) I have a brother.
Scott Benner Is he not helpful?
Suzanne He's got a lot going on. (38:09) He's got three adult kids in three different states, and he kinda leaves things to me.
Scott Benner The answer is yes. (38:14) He's not helpful?
Suzanne Okay. (38:18) I you know You're so polite, Suzette. (38:22) I you're you're fine. (38:22) Ask him for something if I ask him for something, he'll he'll try to do it. (38:27) But he's not like, oh, how can I, you know, how can I do this?
Suzanne How can I help?
Scott Benner That's how I describe my marriage after thirty years.
Suzanne If I ask her to do something, she'll try to do it. (38:35) No.
Scott Benner I hear what you're saying. (38:37) Do you and your mom ever look at each other and are like, look at us in this thing with this diabetes? (38:41) Do you guys talk about it?
Suzanne Yeah. (38:43) Yeah. (38:44) We do.
Scott Benner What's her takeaway of a life with diabetes, do you think?
Suzanne Well okay. (38:49) She's only had it for, like, since she's been in her fifties.
Scott Benner That's a long time.
Suzanne It is. (38:54) Is long
Scott Benner time. (38:55) Yeah.
Suzanne Yeah. (38:55) I think so so she was probably I guess she was probably, like, 55 maybe when she was so so I guess
Scott Benner Thirty years?
Suzanne Yeah. (39:02) So she's had it for thirty years. (39:03) I've had it for thirty four. (39:05) So yeah. (39:08) What's her take?
Suzanne I don't know what her take is.
Scott Benner Does she seem did she seem burdened by it prior to not being able to take care of herself?
Suzanne You know, she you know, it's funny because I got it first. (39:22) And so she was just kinda she just kinda and she she was able to diagnose herself by kinda looking at me with some of the symptoms. (39:30) Mhmm. (39:31) So I think she just thought I was kind of like a a a good example to her. (39:36) And so she was just like, well, Suzanne can do it.
Suzanne I can do it kind of thing.
Scott Benner Yeah. (39:40) She just went on her way and did it. (39:41) Okay. (39:41) Yeah. (39:41) Hey.
Overmedication vs. Dementia
Scott Benner Why did you think she had dementia, but she didn't?
Suzanne Oh, well okay. (39:45) So she thought she had dementia. (39:47) Okay. (39:48) And well, for what there was a certain political, person that, she would look at the TV and go, I have what he has. (40:00) And because of look in his on his face.
Suzanne One day, she drove over to my house. (40:05) I was gonna help her with something with her insulin pump.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne And in the course of the conversation, it came out that she didn't feel safe living alone anymore. (40:14) She didn't feel safe driving anymore, and she didn't wanna drive anyway. (40:19) And I was like, well, you can stay here. (40:21) I mean, I didn't know what else to say. (40:22) Like, you can stay here tonight.
Suzanne You know? (40:24) A week and a half into that, and she had she had scheduled herself for a cognitive evaluation.
Scott Benner Really? (40:31) How old and what age did this happen?
Suzanne She was, like, 83.
Scott Benner Oh, just a couple years ago. (40:36) Okay.
Suzanne Yeah. (40:37) Yeah. (40:37) Yeah. (40:37) This is, like, seven. (40:38) Yeah.
Suzanne Like yeah.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne We finally well, and then a week and a half of her living with me, she broke her arm.
Scott Benner Oh my gosh.
Suzanne Fell and broke her arm. (40:47) So that was really hard. (40:49) That was talk about burden. (40:51) That was really hard. (40:52) Yeah.
Suzanne You know? (40:53) Like, I had to help her with everything. (40:54) So she got her cognitive evaluation in, like, October year, and they do this little test called a slums test. (41:03) I it's Saint Louis something. (41:05) It's like this little cursory, you know, cognitive evaluation, and she got 13 out of 30 on it.
Suzanne I'm kind of about natural medicine when you can be. (41:16) I mean, I would never go a day without my insulin or or, you know, like, there's a place for but but I I also think a lot of things are overprescribed. (41:25) The the doctor said, oh, let's hold she was on three blood pressure medications.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne And so I took her off two of those, and now she only takes the other one once a day where she was taking it twice a day and her blood pressure's fine. (41:40) I took her off a statin drug and she was shuffling her feet. (41:45) She does not shuffle her feet anymore. (41:47) When she moved in with me, she was not interested in food. (41:51) She was not interested in reading, the things that she loves.
Suzanne She just didn't care. (41:55) And over the course of time, she she got another slums test in March, and she got 19 out of 30. (42:07) And then last October, she got another one. (42:09) She got 27 out of 30, which is pretty much normal.
Scott Benner Is this the blood pressure meant? (42:14) I mean, first of all, this is, this might sound crazy to people, but this is not incredibly uncommon for older people to go to a doctor. (42:20) They put her on a blood pressure medication. (42:22) Then they go to another doctor. (42:24) They add a med, but don't take the other one away.
Scott Benner Yeah. (42:26) Yeah.
Suzanne Yeah. (42:27) Exactly.
Scott Benner Right.
Suzanne So I I think it was just maybe she was just over medicated. (42:32) Yeah. (42:32) And and I I also, you know, I I help her with her food, you know, and I help manage her diabetes. (42:38) Like, her her a one c's have been great lately. (42:40) Like, they've been, like, six something.
Scott Benner Wow. (42:43) Good for you. (42:43) I'm sorry. (42:44) Does this whole process of being with her make you start worrying about yourself as an older? (42:49) Because you Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner Because you don't have a you when you get older.
Suzanne Exactly. (42:53) Yeah. (42:53) No. (42:53) I don't. (42:54) And I yeah.
Suzanne And I don't have kids. (42:55) And, yeah, I don't have kids to take care of me. (42:57) I I yeah. (42:58) So exactly. (43:00) Yeah.
Suzanne It definite definitely.
Scott Benner To answer your question, yes, I'm scared out of my mind. (43:04) Thank you.
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner Well, yeah, no. (43:05) I hear you. (43:06) If you left her to her own, like, what would stop her from taking good care of herself? (43:10) Is it dexterity? (43:11) Is it clarity?
Scott Benner Like, what would stop her from taking care of her diabetes by herself?
Suzanne Well, I think she said the with the pump, it's like her eyesight. (43:21) Mhmm. (43:21) You know, like, being able to see the you know? (43:24) And she does wear glasses, but, you know, like, her eyesight kinda, changes. (43:27) She keeps all her glasses because she had a doctor tell her, keep all your glasses because your eyesight will change even if you get a new prescription.
Suzanne But still, for her to living alone was just hard for her. (43:41) Sure. (43:41) I mean, we were in touch. (43:42) Like, we we spent time together. (43:44) It wasn't like like I just left her out there on the farm.
Suzanne But, like, we ate together frequently.
Scott Benner And Is it is it strange for you to still be this in touch with your mom, or do you like it?
Suzanne I really liked living alone. (43:57) I really did. (43:59) I really did. (44:00) But I I'm like, I don't know. (44:02) Like, I'm I'm grateful.
Suzanne You know, I think it would be great. (44:05) She may get another apartment in this building. (44:08) That might be good. (44:09) I'm I'm not sure if I wanna stay in this building. (44:11) I want some green space too.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne Fortunately, I have an extra bedroom. (44:15) Like, what if I didn't? (44:16) Yeah. (44:16) You'd be on the sofa. (44:17) Your mom be sleeping in your bed.
Suzanne Yeah. (44:19) Yeah. (44:19) Exactly. (44:20) Exactly. (44:21) So You live in Iowa.
Suzanne Have you tried meth for all these problems, or
Scott Benner is that not something you've gotten into yet?
Suzanne Meth. (44:26) Why is why is meth an Iowa thing?
Scott Benner I don't
Suzanne know, isn't it? (44:30) I don't
Scott Benner Listen. (44:33) If I'm just gonna generalize and you guys would've hold me down to all the details, this is gonna be a problem making this podcast. (44:38) Okay? (44:39) Okay.
Suzanne Yeah. (44:41) Well, you need a fact checker.
Scott Benner Well, let's not get crazy. (44:44) I guess I was leading into, like, how did you avoid medicating yourself other ways, like, through your life with all this? (44:52) Like, how come like, you're not a drinker. (44:54) Right? (44:54) You don't get high?
Scott Benner Like, why do you not
Suzanne Well, a friend's prayer, a lot of prayer.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne A lot of friends that that, you know, are committed to the same ethic. (45:06) Yeah. (45:06) But most of my close friends don't live in my state.
Scott Benner They're in Boston?
Suzanne Yeah. (45:11) They're in Boston or in Virginia or Texas or
Scott Benner Yeah. (45:15) Yeah. (45:15) People move around. (45:16) What do you do for a living?
Suzanne Most of my income is disability, but I still teach a little bit of music. (45:21) Mhmm. (45:22) And I'm learning music production.
Scott Benner Oh, nice. (45:25) Throughout your adult life, it's been mostly disability?
Suzanne No. (45:29) No. (45:29) I I I got on disability when I moved home to Iowa.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne But I Okay. (45:34) When I was in Boston, I worked for a nonprofit, and I went around to different schools and taught music and produced big shows with kids.
Scott Benner And Oh, wow.
Suzanne So I I look back, and I'm like, how did I do that? (45:44) I mean, I I still in Boston for, like, ten years with with chronic fatigue at least. (45:51) Yeah. (45:51) Yeah.
Scott Benner Just kinda power do you feel like you were powering through it?
Suzanne Oh, yeah. (45:55) Yeah. (45:55) I mean and I had to pace. (45:57) Like, I couldn't I couldn't work enough. (45:59) Fortunately, I I worked at a job where I contracted, So you didn't you weren't there, you know, five days a week.
Suzanne You would maybe be at some places two days a week and and maybe not for the whole day. (46:12) So but I would I was not able to keep up enough contracts to really
Scott Benner Float the whole thing.
Suzanne Yeah. (46:19) Yeah. (46:19) Yeah. (46:19) Well, that's Yeah.
Scott Benner It really is just terrible to be impacted so much by something like that.
Suzanne Right.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne So I right now, I have six private students. (46:28) And last month, I subbed online for a colleague, and it was just three students. (46:33) Absolutely delightful, but by the end of the month, I was a mess. (46:37) Just three like, it was about an hour and a half of extra time at you know?
Scott Benner And it exhausted you.
Suzanne And I was a mess, yeah, by the end of the month. (46:45) And I'm just like, ugh. (46:47) Yeah. (46:48) So and and I I love teaching. (46:50) I absolutely love it, but I just have to really pace myself.
Scott Benner Yeah. (46:53) How long does it take you to bounce back when once you get, like, kind of, like, not burned out is the wrong word, once you get exhausted?
Suzanne It depends. (47:01) Like, sometimes it'll take a day. (47:03) Sometimes it'll take, like okay. (47:05) So I was subbing for my friend in, like, towards the end well, anyway, like, the whole week after, I had, like, one and a half I counted. (47:16) I had, like, one and a half good days that whole next week.
Scott Benner Like,
Suzanne it was it was a mess. (47:22) Describe to people the difference between a good day and a bad day. (47:24) A bad day, you feel like there's this magnet pulling you towards your bed. (47:29) Like, yesterday was Saturday was kind of a bad day, and I I I actually dragged myself out. (47:35) One of my students was in a musical, and I dragged myself out and went to it.
Suzanne But the whole time, I was just really like, I just wanted to be in my bed and and just not having to interact with people, and and I can't explain it.
Scott Benner But not depression. (47:52) It's not you don't feel depressed. (47:53) You feel exhausted. (47:54) You
Suzanne you kinda do, but you know it's a more of a physiological thing.
Scott Benner Mhmm. (48:00) So you need to, like, get ramped up somehow. (48:03) Like, yeah, like, your battery your battery is low.
Suzanne But that makes it worse. (48:08) Like, when you ramp yourself up, it's like you're using energy that you don't have, and so it kinda makes things worse.
Scott Benner Oh, you get, like, an adrenaline crash afterwards?
Suzanne Yes. (48:16) Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. (48:18) Yeah. (48:18) Do if you do ramp yourself up for something, then the you pay you pay harder at the end. (48:23) You pay.
Suzanne You you gotta pay the piper. (48:25) You you yeah. (48:26) That's the hard thing about it.
Scott Benner Nothing's ever helped. (48:30) There's not a moment where you thought, like, as crazy as it sounds, like, you know, the the the oddest thing felt like it had an impact for you?
Suzanne Not permanently. (48:39) No. (48:40) And and I'm very quick to pronounce myself cured if I have a good day.
Scott Benner I'm like,
Suzanne this has all been in my head all these years. (48:47) It's it's
Scott Benner Figured it out. (48:48) It's green beans. (48:49) Yeah.
Suzanne It's all been in my head. (48:51) So there's nothing that's that's like, oh, yeah. (48:55) I'm consistently friends paid for me to do an adrenal program and lots of different supplements. (49:01) I I felt like I was I was very sensitive to a lot of the supplements even you you know? (49:07) And they encourage you, like, take it really, really, really, really slow.
Scott Benner You know? (49:12) How about your iron? (49:13) Do do a full iron panel ever?
Suzanne You know, I used to have low iron when I first started all this. (49:19) And I would but that didn't even help. (49:21) I mean, I would take iron, and it didn't
Scott Benner So you had a moment where somebody's like, oh, you're anemic. (49:26) This is gonna help you, and they jacked you back up, and then nothing changed? (49:29) Yeah. (49:30) How did you get your iron back up? (49:32) They give you infusions?
Suzanne No. (49:34) They just tablets.
Scott Benner Yeah. (49:36) Ew.
Suzanne And then I think when I went through menopause, my iron was fine again. (49:41) You know? (49:41) Okay. (49:42) I I haven't had problems with iron, but I I probably should have my doctor test that this this I'll I'll see her at the end of the month.
Scott Benner Yeah. (49:50) Make sure they test your ferritin too.
Suzanne Yeah. (49:53) No. (49:53) She's she's a really smart doctor. (49:55) Yeah. (49:55) And she she doesn't do the just cursory stuff.
Scott Benner Suzanne, listen. (49:59) I'm always interested when people say stuff like this. (50:01) Like, she's
Suzanne a really great doctor. (50:03) You have a lot
Scott Benner of problems. (50:04) I don't see her fixing any of them.
Suzanne Yeah. (50:06) I know. (50:07) I know.
Finding Hope and Coping Mechanisms
Scott Benner She's I I know. (50:08) So you mean she's thoughtful, thinks outside of the box, just trying to help you in ways other people wouldn't, etcetera.
Suzanne That.
Scott Benner But she hasn't gotten to the, like, the the promised land where she said something that ended up being valuable. (50:20) Do you think there's nothing that will help?
Suzanne I don't know. (50:23) I I mean, I I don't know. (50:25) I hope there is.
Scott Benner But What keeps you looking? (50:29) Like, what what keeps you motivated to keep hoping and, like, thinking like, you know what I mean? (50:33) Like, where's the hope come from that makes you think, like, I'm cured. (50:36) I figured it out. (50:36) Like, where do you get that from?
Suzanne I I don't know if it's just a hope for a cure, but I don't know. (50:41) There there there's a fragment of a psalm that says, why are you downcast, oh my soul? (50:46) Why are you so disturbed within me? (50:48) Put your hope in God for I will yet praise him. (50:51) And I just I you know, whether I get better or not, I know that God is giving me something to hope for, whether it's in this life or the next.
Suzanne I don't I don't that's all I can say, really.
Scott Benner No. (51:03) You find you find your hope through faith.
Suzanne Yes. (51:05) Yeah. (51:05) Yeah.
Scott Benner Well, listen. (51:07) I I I would think you you deserve it wherever you can get it from, so that's awesome that you found it somewhere. (51:12) Because I I can imagine people would be I mean, this is a thing I think about a lot. (51:16) Right? (51:17) Like, with, you know, the people around me and the people that listen to this podcast, you know, lot of you are on difficult paths that don't always end with, like, some successful outcome.
Scott Benner And you still have to get up and do it again and, you know, you have bouts of time where you feel better and worse and, you know, like, how do you keep going when the worst times come and how do you enjoy your life when the good times are there without thinking, oh, it's just gonna get bad again? (51:43) It's a lot. (51:44) You know?
Suzanne It is.
Scott Benner Yeah. (51:45) I mean, there's a lot of you can see even with, like like, you've you've mentioned money a number of times. (51:51) Like, I don't have money for that or anything. (51:53) Like, you know, you're watching, what, Selena Gomez out in the world. (51:56) Right?
Scott Benner She has, what, lupus or something like that? (51:58) Like, it's
Suzanne She's got her own she's got her own Oreo too. (52:01) Did you notice that?
Scott Benner She has her own what?
Suzanne Oreo. (52:04) I I was in the grocery store the other day. (52:06) Yes. (52:07) I was in the grocery store the other day, and they had Selena Gomez Oreos, and I'm like
Scott Benner Well, I didn't know that, but that makes my point better. (52:13) Like, she's got
Suzanne I guess you've made it when you've got your own Oreo.
Scott Benner You have you when you have Oreo money to pay for your treatments is what I'm saying is you're getting great, like you know, you're probably getting cutting edge help, and I've still seen I've seen her struggle over the last number of years pretty heartily.
Suzanne I didn't realize she had lupus.
Scott Benner Is that what she oh, listen. (52:30) I might have made that up. (52:31) Hold on a second.
Suzanne She just said that. (52:33) I I mean, I'm just I'm not familiar with her music or and I know she's a she's a, like, a pop star, but I don't I'm not all that familiar with her music.
Scott Benner Hold on a second. (52:42) Let me just make sure I'm right about that. (52:45) I didn't just give her something.
Suzanne I think said you said yeah.
Scott Benner She has Do you not watch Only Murders in the Building?
Suzanne No. (52:52) Oh my goodness.
Scott Benner Oh, okay. (52:53) So so she does have lupus. (52:55) She's had a kidney transplant because of kidney failure. (52:58) Woah. (52:59) 2020, she publicly revealed she has bipolar disorder, anxiety, depression.
Scott Benner Wow. (53:05) But the lupus specifically like, there's a lot of, like so if you watch Only Murders in the Building, you'll, like, watch a season of it, and there's a version of Selena Gomez that's acting in it. (53:16) And then the next season of it, she looks like she might weigh forty or fifty pounds more. (53:21) And then in the next season, it's gone again. (53:23) And I think that's all the lupus and the inflammation and all that stuff.
Scott Benner Wow. (53:27) My point was is that, like, when you've got her money and you still can't overcome stuff like this
Suzanne Exactly. (53:34) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (53:34) Yeah.
Suzanne Like, it's maybe it's not a matter of affording being able to afford treatment. (53:40) It's just life.
Scott Benner Yeah. (53:42) But maybe this is just and you're 62. (53:45) Like, so I think we're forgetting that because, again, you have a very youthful voice and way about you. (53:49) But, like, at 62 years old and you've been at this for for as long as you have been, I mean, at what point do you just say to yourself without being sad, this is it? (54:00) Like, this is my role.
Scott Benner Like, so just I'm gonna do the best with it I can and stop, like you know what I mean?
Suzanne Well, I mean, sometimes that's why I'm not like, oh, let's try this. (54:09) Let's try this. (54:10) Because I'm just like, I just wanna I just wanna wake up and and work on a song or something or, you know, like Yes. (54:15) Just do my thing and and not have to, like, constantly be thinking about, you know. (54:20) I had kidney issues a couple years ago.
Suzanne I was able to, get back to normal kidney function. (54:26) So, like like, you talked about Selena having Mhmm. (54:29) Like, it's just it's just always something. (54:30) I feel like I'm playing whack a mole. (54:32) You know?
Suzanne It's like Let's dig into that for
Scott Benner a second because I think that's really interesting. (54:35) The idea of, like, you you're trying to live. (54:37) It probably feels like you're always in college. (54:40) Meaning, as soon as I do these things, complete these tasks, then I get to go live my life.
Suzanne Yeah. (54:46) Yeah.
Scott Benner Right? (54:47) Except that never stops happening.
Suzanne Yeah. (54:49) Exactly.
Scott Benner You don't go to therapy?
Suzanne I had a therapist for a while. (54:53) I didn't feel like she was helping. (54:55) Ugh. (54:55) I I need to find another one. (54:58) But but who even has time to go?
Scott Benner You're like, when am I doing that?
Suzanne Yeah. (55:02) Yeah. (55:02) Exact this sounds like another thing, and I'm like, like, I'm so burned out on self care.
Scott Benner Like, I'm just I guess isn't that funny?
Suzanne Like yeah.
Scott Benner Seriously, there's a real conversation in there because if self care, which is the thing that's supposed to elevate you and help you do better, is the thing that's burning you out, then where's the tipping point between the value and and the harm?
Suzanne That that's why I'm trying to figure out.
Scott Benner Oh, you thought I was gonna help with that?
Suzanne I not necessarily, but
Scott Benner I can't even remember to put my face cream on. (55:34) Arden's like, you're wrinkly. (55:35) If you just use cream, I'm like, how am I supposed to remember to do this? (55:37) She goes, it's on the sink. (55:39) She's like she's like, when you get
Suzanne out of the shower, rub some of it on your hands and put it on your face.
Scott Benner And I go, I don't It seems like a lot. (55:46) So
Suzanne Yeah. (55:47) No. (55:47) There's there's so many crazy things I have to do to just keep going, and I'm like, ugh. (55:52) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (55:52) No. (55:53) I think that's important. (55:54) The I'm glad that came up, actually. (55:56) Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (55:57) Because everybody's in that I think everyone to some level or another is in that space where they're trying to find the balance between living and staying alive. (56:06) Right? (56:07) Like, you're trying to, like, like, how do I stay healthy without giving away every ounce of who I am to that process? (56:14) Because then am I not then I don't have time for anything else.
Suzanne Exactly. (56:18) Exactly. (56:19) I'm I'm trying to start releasing music, and I I released my first song last year. (56:24) Oh. (56:25) And I've got songs in the pipeline, and I'm just like you know, it's just trying to figure out how to
Scott Benner make kind of music? (56:32) Mumble rap? (56:32) What do you do?
Suzanne I'm I'm I'm pretty eclectic as far as genres. (56:39) Most most of it is is Christian music, but styles are are fairly eclectic.
Scott Benner Mhmm. (56:44) How do you release it? (56:45) Like, through, like
Suzanne Like, YouTube. (56:50) There's a whole process, and I and I've done it once. (56:52) Now I'll have to, like, revisit how to do it again once I get another song ready.
Scott Benner Right. (56:58) How long does it take to put a song together?
Suzanne It depends. (57:02) I guess it depends if, like like, I'm new with the production process.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Suzanne And it took me, like, from, like, August through April to do my first one. (57:14) But but other people you know, it's just with everything else going on in my life, like, that was it it just took a lot longer than it was supposed to.
Scott Benner Yeah. (57:23) Well, right. (57:23) Because every everything is extra. (57:26) Right?
Suzanne Right. (57:27) Right. (57:28) Like, I I try to work in little fifteen, twenty minute increments. (57:32) And then, you know, when I when I finally put put it out, it took, like like, there was hours of time just, you know, trying to work through, you know, like, the distributor and figuring out all that stuff online. (57:44) I I went through a, like, a accelerator mentorship process to do that.
Suzanne But even with that, it was it took a it took some time.
Scott Benner I'm sorry. (57:53) I have to do something here. (57:54) This is we don't allow political, like, posts on the Facebook group. (57:58) Right? (57:59) Because it's I know it feels like a left turn person.
Suzanne There's no you don't have
Scott Benner to
Suzanne explain
Scott Benner it. (58:03) Because well, because it just it'll devolve no matter what. (58:06) And people like to put something up that's very political and then say, this is not political.
Suzanne Exactly.
Scott Benner I'm putting it up there because it's very important for people with diabetes. (58:18) And I'm like, it is incredibly important for people with diabetes. (58:21) It doesn't make it not political, or it doesn't mean it's not going to be five minutes from now when everybody start yelling at each other about it. (58:28) And this is a this is a community for people to support each other with their diabetes, not for them to argue about, you know, politics.
Suzanne So Yeah. (58:36) Yeah. (58:36) No. (58:36) You don't have to explain that to me.
Scott Benner Well, yeah. (58:38) It's nice.
Suzanne It's the world we live in. (58:40) My my yeah.
Scott Benner It's my favorite thing that people do. (58:43) They're like, okay. (58:44) Listen. (58:45) This isn't political, so don't talk about it that way. (58:48) You know what politician really sucks because they're not helping people with diabetes?
Scott Benner I'm
Suzanne like Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah. (58:54) That's political.
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner It's very funny.
Suzanne Yeah. (58:58) Just Yeah. (58:58) Put a a popcorn GIF on there.
Scott Benner I don't know. (59:01) I'm not getting I No. (59:03) My group runs very well for a very specific reason, and it's we politics, religion, pretty much, you know, we we we don't go down those roads. (59:12) And it's tough in times like this. (59:14) Like, I don't have any trouble talking about it here, it's tough in times like this.
Scott Benner There's a lot of people who wanna stick up for islet cell legislation and everything, and I'm I'm with them. (59:22) I think that's great. (59:23) But I you can't start making a pod a post about it in the Facebook group. (59:27) It doesn't work that way. (59:28) So Wow.
Scott Benner Yeah. (59:30) It sucks. (59:30) It's a weird line to have to draw when you're me. (59:32) And then I get yelled at for not being something. (59:35) You know what I mean?
Scott Benner Yeah. (59:36) Yeah.
Suzanne Right. (59:37) Well, we we have that dynamic also in my family too. (59:40) So it, like, it it does hasn't really helped. (59:44) There's some political spectacles in my family. (59:46) So And
Scott Benner and then what happens? (59:48) It it gets in the in the way of, like, personal relationships
Suzanne and Yes. (59:53) Yeah. (59:53) Yes.
Scott Benner Well, that's my point. (59:55) If none of you knew each other's politics, you wouldn't be having any of those other problems.
Suzanne So Exactly. (1:00:00) Exactly.
Scott Benner At the very least, in a Facebook group, we're gonna avoid it. (1:00:04) That's pretty much
Suzanne it. (1:00:04) Yeah.
Scott Benner Okay. (1:00:05) Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have? (1:00:07) Anything? (1:00:08) Because I don't I don't wanna shortchange on and
Suzanne make sure. (1:00:10) Tons of stuff I'd love to talk about, but but let me just say my mom so she she had a formal evaluation with her dementia Yeah. (1:00:18) In January, and she it's so it's March now. (1:00:22) And they they decided she doesn't have dementia because she's just a normal 85 year old. (1:00:27) But I think she's she's transformed a lot since she's been living with me.
Suzanne And she so now she loves to read. (1:00:34) She can walk to the light. (1:00:35) She doesn't shuffle her feet anymore. (1:00:37) Yeah. (1:00:37) She can walk to the library, buy a book, or check out a book, or there's a little bookstore over there, and she she prefers buying a book.
Suzanne And so, like, she's she's really transformed, but it's still like, I wish I had others that could care for her and her diabetes.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Suzanne That would make my life, little little easier.
Scott Benner Mahersh too, maybe. (1:01:00) I'm sure she has some level of guilt around having you take care of her.
Suzanne Yeah. (1:01:05) Yeah. (1:01:05) She's on Medtronic closed loop, and the CGM right now that we're using is a little bit complicated as far as the what how to how to
Scott Benner Is it the one that recharges? (1:01:18) Like, you have to plug it in sometimes?
Suzanne Yeah. (1:01:20) You just plug that. (1:01:21) But but also the procedure of putting it on is a little bit crazy.
Scott Benner They have the new one.
Suzanne I know. (1:01:27) I know. (1:01:28) So they the her doctor has already ordered that. (1:01:31) So but we just got a shipment of the old one. (1:01:33) So when we go work through that, we'll we'll start with the new one.
Scott Benner How many is in the shipment of the older model?
Suzanne Three months worth. (1:01:41) Jesus. (1:01:42) Yeah. (1:01:43) She just called them up and
Scott Benner say say it didn't come. (1:01:45) And and yeah.
Suzanne I know. (1:01:47) I mean, we we might be able to start earlier and that I probably will if I decide to travel soon. (1:01:53) Like, sometimes I'm just too tired, but I wanna start training her to redo her infusions to to be able to put on her own infusion set. (1:02:02) But sometimes her brain will glitch a little bit, so it can it can be one time when I was traveling, she was like, oh, yeah. (1:02:09) I I she I had to take a shot, and I was like, took the whole syringe, you know, for three units.
Suzanne I'm like, mom, you put in 30 units. (1:02:17) She didn't do three units. (1:02:19) Yeah. (1:02:20) Jeez. (1:02:20) So she was okay.
Suzanne She was able to eat enough to get through it, but so there's you know, like, it's it's not like, she she doesn't have dementia, and I don't worry about her doing something crazy like wandering, but it's still she probably shouldn't be alone for for too long.
Scott Benner No. (1:02:38) I hear you. (1:02:38) I I mean, my mom lived into her early eighties, and there's just parts of being that age that are just come with being that age. (1:02:46) Like, you know, my mom had a a cancer at the end of her life, so there's, like, some scans that she got done. (1:02:51) And I remember, you know, they did a brain like, a brain scan.
Scott Benner And, you know, just looking at the report, just, you know, the way the report is written, it said something about, like, frontal lobe deterioration equivalent with age. (1:03:06) Yeah. (1:03:07) And you think, oh, that's not a thing you think about when you're younger. (1:03:11) Yeah. (1:03:11) You know?
Scott Benner Yeah. (1:03:12) So
Suzanne But, you know, our bodies aren't meant to well, I mean, they were meant to last forever, but they don't, and it's part of life.
Scott Benner Yeah. (1:03:20) No. (1:03:21) It it really is. (1:03:22) So she's experiencing things that are just commiserate with being her age. (1:03:26) Yes.
Scott Benner Yeah. (1:03:27) Yeah. (1:03:27) And then having to deal with diabetes on top of all that.
Suzanne Mhmm.
Scott Benner Yeah. (1:03:32) Well, she's very lucky to have you. (1:03:33) That's for certain.
Suzanne I'm lucky to have her. (1:03:35) Oh oh, the other thing too is she she does a lot of cooking now. (1:03:39) Like, she didn't care about food anymore. (1:03:41) Now she on the days I work, she makes dinner. (1:03:44) She does all the dishes.
Suzanne She does a lot of the laundry. (1:03:47) You know? (1:03:47) So it's she's been great.
Scott Benner Oh, let's go. (1:03:49) That's awesome. (1:03:50) I'll take her here if she's gonna cook and clean. (1:03:54) Ship her over. (1:03:55) I'll take care of her diabetes.
Scott Benner I have no trouble.
Suzanne Yeah. (1:03:58) Hey. (1:03:58) There's an idea. (1:03:59) Next time I travel
Scott Benner If the end of this podcast was just me taking on older people with type one diabetes to get free cooking and cleaning out of them?
Suzanne Not not a not a bad strategy. (1:04:10) Not a
Scott Benner I don't know.
Suzanne She makes a she makes a really good pork chop. (1:04:15) I'll tell you. (1:04:16) Yes. (1:04:16) It
Scott Benner might be cheaper for me to just, like, hire a cooker than Yeah. (1:04:22) Than to take care of a person in the eighties.
Suzanne That's true.
Scott Benner Boy, that's some
Suzanne but you have a really interesting story.
Scott Benner Is there any did we miss anything that you think really solidifies your story, or do you think we hit the big parts?
Suzanne Nothing that necessarily you know, the lots of lots of all kinds of things, you know, that or I I just thought it was really interesting that I was diagnosed in Boston. (1:04:42) That was kind of a cool thing because of access to Jocelyn. (1:04:46) I worked at Camp Jocelyn for a summer. (1:04:49) Just lots of lots of little different little things, but nothing, you know, super.
Scott Benner You know, you've had touch points with with that. (1:04:55) I mean, there's a lot of research in hospitals in Boston for sure.
Suzanne Yeah. (1:04:58) I remember when the DCC ten first came out and going to a a big thing at a hotel where they announced the, you know, the findings of the DCC 10. (1:05:08) And I and I was very newly diagnosed at the time, so that was, like, a really good way to set my mind. (1:05:15) Like, okay. (1:05:16) Self care really does does make a difference.
Scott Benner Yeah. (1:05:20) I I hear you. (1:05:21) So tell people a little more about it, the DCC 10.
Suzanne Well, d c c 10, it was this big study that they did to find out if if, you know, the way you cared for yourself would make a difference in in long term complications.
Scott Benner Okay. (1:05:36) And? (1:05:36) And and
Suzanne What did they come up with? (1:05:39) Well, I thought she I thought that you've mentioned it before on the podcast.
Scott Benner Have I? (1:05:42) I mean, honestly, you heard me earlier say that I really don't know a lot about what I'm doing. (1:05:46) So go ahead.
Suzanne Heard it. (1:05:47) I've heard you meant but it but, yes, absolutely. (1:05:50) You know, like keeping your a one c down, keeping your blood sugars normal as possible. (1:05:55) Yes. (1:05:56) It it it really does you know, it's it's not like a foregone conclusion that, oh, I have diabetes, so, of course, I'm gonna have all this litany of stuff.
Scott Benner Right.
Suzanne So, yeah, it was it was a nice way to, you know, have my mindset at the the beginning of the of but but your podcast really helped too. (1:06:13) Like, I was kind of like, when I first moved home, I was just I was tired. (1:06:17) I was looking to for stuff to listen to when I was, you know, resting, and I was like, I wonder if there's any diabetes podcasts out there. (1:06:25) Well, yeah. (1:06:25) Yeah.
Suzanne The one
Scott Benner thing I feel sad about, in our interview today and that I would like to return to before we say goodbye is that before we started recording, you were super excited to talk to me. (1:06:36) And then that love and adoration did not come out with as vociferously as it was coming out before we were being recorded. (1:06:43) So, do you wanna tell all the people why this is such a special moment?
Suzanne Oh. (1:06:47) Oh.
Scott Benner Why am I so great? (1:06:48) Tell everybody that at the end, Suzanne.
Suzanne Go ahead. (1:06:50) Mean, I just I just I think I opened I said, I'm talking to the Scott Benner. (1:06:54) You know, I I I felt like I feel like I know you because I've listened to the podcast so much. (1:06:59) You know? (1:07:00) Like like, it's funny when when you listen to or read an author, you think you know them, but you don't really.
Suzanne But but, you know, it's like, wow. (1:07:07) You know? (1:07:07) I mean but, yeah, you you've, you know, just I I think you've helped me. (1:07:12) You've helped a lot of people.
Scott Benner Oh, well, that's very nice. (1:07:14) How how do you think the podcast has helped you mostly?
Suzanne I think a lot of the, like, the practicals try I can't even think of specifics, but I know when I was first started listening, just a lot of the practicals and and and I feel like you gave me permission to not have to write everything down. (1:07:33) Oh, really? (1:07:34) You know, they yeah. (1:07:35) Like, they they were like, oh, you have to write all your blood sugars down, and you have to write down all your carbs and count them all exactly. (1:07:42) And I you know?
Suzanne And maybe I'd do better if I did that, but it just I just never did well with all that stuff. (1:07:48) And, you know, like I like we were talking about trying to live your life Like,
Scott Benner I who
Suzanne who has time to, like, write all down everything they eat and measure it just exactly? (1:07:59) And Well, what do you mean you could do better? (1:08:01) Like, what what are your outcomes like right now?
Scott Benner I mean, your mom's got an a grade a one c at 85. (1:08:06) So what's yours?
Suzanne I'm I'm like I hover around, like, seven one, seven six nine.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Suzanne I mean, you know, probably could be better. (1:08:14) Sometimes I get insulin resistant in the mornings usually, and I I probably need to just tweak something in my basil, but but yeah. (1:08:24) I mean, mean, just I just like hearing people because you just don't hear people talk about this stuff every day.
Scott Benner Yeah. (1:08:29) That that ends up being the I think one of the values of the podcast is that it pulls together a lot of voices that you are hard to find in your regular life.
Suzanne Right. (1:08:39) And people that are trying to live their lives too that have, like, you know, normal lives as well, but they're trying to live them and but then they have to deal with this on top of it.
Scott Benner Yeah. (1:08:48) No. (1:08:48) I I hear you. (1:08:49) Yeah. (1:08:49) Well, I'm glad that it's it's
Suzanne been valuable for you.
Scott Benner Also, I think your a one c sounds terrific. (1:08:53) Wait. (1:08:53) What system are you on?
Suzanne I'm on a closed loop tandem.
Scott Benner So, like, are you using the, t slim or are using the Mobi?
Suzanne T slim.
Scott Benner Okay. (1:09:03) And you have, like what'd you say? (1:09:04) Like, a seven?
Suzanne Yeah. (1:09:06) Around I have her around seven.
Scott Benner Oh, your mom around seven. (1:09:08) But where are you at?
Suzanne I'm I'm around seven. (1:09:10) My mom is, like, six something usually.
Scott Benner Your because your mom eats differently than you?
Suzanne Well, she actually has kind of gone a little lower glycemic since she's been with me, but but she can eat other things than, her diet's more expanded than mine is.
Scott Benner Okay.
Suzanne She can eat dairy, which I wish I could.
Scott Benner What happens when you have dairy?
Suzanne I get earaches and sore throats.
Scott Benner Earaches and sore throats. (1:09:36) Okay. (1:09:37) Yeah. (1:09:37) There's a lot going on for you.
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner Do you have a lot of allergies?
Suzanne No. (1:09:44) Okay. (1:09:44) Not not really. (1:09:46) But a few things, but not nothing.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Suzanne Yeah.
Scott Benner Okay. (1:09:50) Alright.
Suzanne Like, I'm I'm allergic to echinacea, and I'm allergic to Valyrian and, you know, like, weird stuff.
Scott Benner It sounds like you're allergic to economics and the metal that the swords are made out of on Game of
Suzanne Thrones is what I just heard. (1:10:03) But yeah. (1:10:07) That.
Scott Benner That? (1:10:08) Yeah. (1:10:09) The Valyrian steel really gets to you?
Suzanne Yeah. (1:10:12) Well, I don't know. (1:10:13) Trust me.
Scott Benner I don't know. (1:10:14) But Valyrian steel makes a lot of sense to me because you're listen. (1:10:17) I'll tell you why, and then I'll let you go back to your life.
Suzanne Okay.
Scott Benner You're obviously a strong person. (1:10:22) You're going through a lot. (1:10:23) You're being pulled down by a lot, and I do not hear it in your voice or in your actions. (1:10:28) You're helping an elderly parent who also has type one diabetes in a society that does not really always do that for people. (1:10:37) And, you know, so it's not set up that way, and it's an extra effort there to help there.
Scott Benner You're doing it on a low budget, and that's just another example of your desire to be valuable and to work hard at this. (1:10:51) I mean, every answer you gave me sounded like an answer that is born out of a lot of experience and the knowledge that there's no real other answer except keep going. (1:11:03) And, you know, I think that's a pretty steely attitude to have. (1:11:06) So you're getting Valyrian steel, like it or not. (1:11:09) I'm sorry.
Scott Benner And if you have not watched Game of Thrones, go watch it. (1:11:12) You'll enjoy it. (1:11:13) It's excellent.
Suzanne I probably won't.
Scott Benner Why not? (1:11:15) It's so good. (1:11:19) I mean, you when you're laying in bed, watch Game of Thrones.
Suzanne I I don't I don't like to I you know, I don't watch a lot of TV anyway.
Scott Benner Suzanne, don't ruin this by telling me you don't love television, the greatest American art form.
Suzanne I'm I'm that's that's a contempt my mom wants to have a TV, I'm like, no, mom.
Scott Benner You won't let your poor mother have a television at the end of her life. (1:11:40) What is wrong with you? (1:11:41) I'll buy her a TV.
Suzanne It'll be great when she gets her own apartment, and she can enjoy that. (1:11:46) I just I I just can't. (1:11:48) I just can't have a TV going on.
Scott Benner Oh my gosh, Suzanne.
Suzanne Yeah. (1:11:52) This this I've changed
Scott Benner my whole opinion of you now.
Suzanne Okay. (1:11:55) So, also, like, I I do like watching occasional things.
Scott Benner Like what? (1:11:59) Tell me what you do like on television.
Suzanne What do I like to watch? (1:12:02) We like to watch, All Creatures Great and Small every Sunday. (1:12:05) We like to watch The Chosen. (1:12:07) I like to watch House of House of David, which is
Scott Benner This sounds like real is this, like, religious programming?
Suzanne It is. (1:12:13) But House of David, you'd like you'd probably like House of David.
Scott Benner What is it?
Suzanne It's a story of King David. (1:12:19) Sometimes I've said to myself
Scott Benner Oh, I see it. (1:12:21) Why it's on Amazon Prime?
Suzanne Put why don't they put this stuff on prime time TV? (1:12:24) Because this is this is pretty racy stuff. (1:12:27) You know?
Scott Benner Well, I gotta tell you, Suzanne. (1:12:28) I watched an episode of fear factor the other night that was awesome. (1:12:32) So I don't think I'm gonna be digging into the house, David. (1:12:34) I am watching, yeah. (1:12:37) I don't think our our television probably doesn't jive well.
Scott Benner Like, I do I I watch bad TV through the winter. (1:12:43) So, like, good TV, bad TV. (1:12:45) I don't know how to like, I'm watching paradise right now on Hulu, which I'm enjoying for some reason that I can't completely wrap my head around. (1:12:51) I think I just got done shrinking, season three. (1:12:56) My wife and I just watched Task.
Scott Benner Is it Task on HBO?
Suzanne Okay.
Scott Benner But it's almost baseball season. (1:13:02) I'm just gonna put baseball on television for for, like, the next nine months, and then I'll get back to it at some point. (1:13:08) But the once a mighty king Saul falls victim to his own pride, this is House of David. (1:13:14) In case anyone's interested, it's on Amazon Prime.
Suzanne It's good stuff. (1:13:18) I have a yeah. (1:13:18) I have a friend that's doing editing for it. (1:13:21) It's it's good stuff Yeah. (1:13:22) I think.
Scott Benner Listen. (1:13:23) I'm not arguing with your style.
Suzanne Oh, but but my my point too is I can't I sometimes I can't watch TV for very long Why? (1:13:31) Because I'm that sensitive. (1:13:32) My Are you serious? (1:13:32) Yeah. (1:13:33) I'm serious.
Suzanne I I can't like, I'm too tired to watch TV. (1:13:37) Like, it's just it's like it's a whole other
Scott Benner Thing to do?
Suzanne Thing. (1:13:41) Yeah. (1:13:42) It's like,
Scott Benner oh kidding.
Suzanne This this gonna drink.
Scott Benner Paying attention is exhausting?
Suzanne I guess.
Scott Benner Mean, it's your life. (1:13:48) I you'd have to answer. (1:13:49) I I don't know exactly.
Suzanne But, like, they like, the actual, like, Well, that's interesting, isn't it? (1:13:54) Yeah.
Scott Benner Well, maybe if you're watching Fear Factor, it wouldn't feel that way.
Suzanne That would probably ramp me up and I'd
Scott Benner Last week, they made them eat pies made out of bugs. (1:14:05) Oh. (1:14:05) It was horrifying. (1:14:07) Oh. (1:14:07) There was wretched.
Suzanne Yeah. (1:14:08) I think I I think I'll pass on that one.
Scott Benner We watched it while Arden was baking. (1:14:12) It was hilarious. (1:14:13) Because Arden was like, turn
Suzanne it down. (1:14:14) Turn it down. (1:14:14) Turn it down. (1:14:15) I can't I
Scott Benner don't she's like, don't I don't wanna hear that. (1:14:19) One of the pies was made out of scorpions, I just wanna say.
Suzanne So Was she baking pies?
Scott Benner She was making cookies at the time
Suzanne Oh, okay. (1:14:26) Okay.
Scott Benner For her boyfriend. (1:14:28) Aw. (1:14:28) Yeah. (1:14:28) It was nice. (1:14:29) Okay.
Scott Benner I'm gonna let you go. (1:14:30) This was fantastic. (1:14:32) Thank you very much for the time. (1:14:33) Hold on a second, though. (1:14:34) I'm gonna tell you a couple of things about how it comes out and everything.
Scott Benner So hold on
Suzanne one second. (1:14:37) Great.
Scott Benner Great. (1:14:38) Thanks again. (1:14:47) A huge thanks to my longest sponsor, Omnipod. (1:14:50) Check out the Omnipod five now with my link, omnipod.com/juicebox. (1:14:56) You may be eligible for a free starter kit, a free Omnipod five starter kit at my link.
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