#1803 After Dark: Phoebe Needs a Break
"Phoebe" from episode 1322 shares life after divorcing a mentally unwell partner—raising children, managing type 1 diabetes, and rebuilding stability, identity, and confidence after years of emotional strain.
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Key Takeaways
- Recognizing Abuse: Abuse isn't just physical; it includes emotional manipulation, extreme financial control, isolation from family, and digital stalking.
- The Importance of Safety Planning: Leaving a volatile relationship requires careful planning, which can include securing firearms, seeking support from trusted law enforcement or friends, and calling domestic violence hotlines.
- Mental Health and Relationships: Severe untreated mental health conditions in a partner, like suspected Borderline Personality Disorder, can create a deeply chaotic, unpredictable, and frightening home environment for both the spouse and children.
- Managing Diabetes Amidst Chaos: Trying to successfully manage children's Type 1 diabetes is incredibly difficult when basic safety and rest are constantly compromised by domestic turmoil.
- Finding Resilience and Moving Forward: Healing from an abusive relationship is a slow process, but securing distance, finding therapy, leaning on supportive communities, and taking life one day at a time can ultimately lead to peace.
Resources Mentioned
- Juice Box Podcast After Dark Series: juiceboxpodcast.com
- Medtronic Diabetes (MiniMed 780G): medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox
- Contour Next Gen: contournext.com/juicebox
- National Domestic Violence Hotline: 800-799-7233 or text "START" to 88788
- Camp Sweeney Giveaway: juiceboxpodcast.com/giveaways
- Juice Cruise 2026: juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise
- Wrong Way Recording: wrongwayrecording.com
Introduction & Sponsor Messages
Scott Benner Here we are back together again, friends, for another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Phoebe Hello. My name is Phoebe. I am the mother of two type one children, ages 10 and 13.
Scott Benner If you're living with type one diabetes, the After Dark collection from the Juice Box podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction, and so much more. Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu and click on after dark. There, you'll see a full list of all of the after dark episodes. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group.
Scott Benner Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. But everybody is welcome. Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise.
Scott Benner Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Today's podcast episode is sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the MiniMed seven eighty g system and their new sensor options, which include the Instinct sensor made by Abbott. Would you like to unleash the full potential of the MiniMed seven eighty g system? You can do that at my link, medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox. Today's episode is also sponsored by the Kontoor Next Gen blood glucose meter.
Scott Benner Learn more and get started today at kontoornext.com/juicebox.
Family Background & Type 1 History
Phoebe Hello. My name is Phoebe. I am the mother of two type one children, ages 10 and 13. And I have three other children that are all teenagers. Correction.
Phoebe The oldest is an adult now, and she has celiac.
Scott Benner Oldest has celiac. Two younger the two youngest have type one?
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner Do they all have the same dad?
Phoebe Yes. I have five children. They all have the same dad. The dad has his mom's sister was diagnosed with type one as an adult. She was in her thirties or forties.
Phoebe Mhmm. And his grandfather was also diagnosed with type one as an adult, thirties or forties. I think it was after one hepatitis infection and another it was a flu, I believe.
Scott Benner Okay.
Phoebe Now We did not know they had type one. His own mother didn't even know that they had type one. She just thought it was type two diabetes.
Scott Benner How about that? So for people listening, I think you're gonna find Phoebe very, interesting, and you didn't see me just make air quotes because her name's not actually Phoebe. That's what we're calling her. But why did we choose Phoebe? It's the same name she used in episode thirteen twenty two.
Scott Benner It's an after dark called borderline. My remembrance of that episode is strong, which is a little uncommon for me because I make so many of them. But I remember you battling through your husband's, mental health issues. Mhmm. Worrying working out how to, you know, get your family to a safe place, and I I it was really something.
Scott Benner So if you're listening to this now and thinking, I'd like to have an understanding of that, you know, check out thirteen twenty two as well. From there, Phoebe and I will start talking. What gets you back on the show? Like, what after because that was a I mean, seriously, a very honest conversation could not have been easy to have. I didn't find it easy to be a part of, and it wasn't my life.
Scott Benner So what makes you wanna come back and do it again?
Phoebe I don't know. Just hearing you say that makes me a little You're like furry.
Scott Benner Well, did it? They made you sad.
Phoebe Yeah. We have come a long way. And, also, on the type one side, I I did wanna say, I have a cousin with type one diabetes, and I have also two cousins with Hashimoto's. So and none of them they're all from different families of my dad's side. We're kinda we're rather blindsided by that, but I don't remember when that would well, I do remember when that was recorded.
Phoebe I think we recorded that episode in, maybe May 24.
Scott Benner Okay. Yeah.
Phoebe Yes. I was just on the at that time at the edge of deciding to leave my marriage of twenty three years.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
The Decision to Separate
Phoebe I had been we got married in 2001. We moved all over the country for his career, like, checkerboard across The United States. I'd stayed home because it was I always wanted to be a stay at home mom, and it was hard to do. We were moving so often when the kids were younger. Yeah.
Phoebe So I got my dream of staying home with the kids, it's a little bit of a golden handcuff, because when it took me a long time to realize that I was in a emotionally, verbally, financially abusive marriage, I thought. And I was I think it was 2022 when I finally it finally clicked what was going on. So when we recorded that podcast episode, I was trying to decide to leave him. And I I think the next day, we talked about it. I am a Christian.
Phoebe So I went he had asked me to talk with our pastor together about saving our marriage. And I think it was the next day after we recorded the podcast, and I had to look look the pastor in the eye. Not my I don't think I looked at my husband. I had I told him several times I wanted a separation. Mhmm.
Phoebe So it was a very scary time because very our lives are very volatile. Not physically abusive, but there are a lot of threats of self harm that he had, a lot of anger. It's pretty scary
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Time. I was very afraid at that time.
Scott Benner Can I ask you, does it seem scarier remembering what it was like to live through it, or does it seem scarier in hindsight now that you're separated from it and have some distance? That makes sense?
Phoebe Yeah. It it kinda depends on the day. It was very scary at the time because I was always just jumping out of my skin. I go you know, I go to the gym, and I hear the door close. And I'm, is that him?
Phoebe Because I found out he was tracking me, what I was doing. I had a whole safety plan in place. I start looking for work to earn some money in my own bank account, and he knew everything that I was doing. You know, finding emails I didn't think he would find. And, so I was just very anxious real
Scott Benner yeah. You're making me anxious, and we're just remembering it. You're not going through it anymore.
Phoebe No. And it it's kinda funny because after we separate, we had that talk, and he left. And I had no idea what was gonna happen. And we had some pretty bad things go down after that involving the police. I had to call the police several several times, and then he even was my dad.
Phoebe And his brother had come to visit because my I think it was just the two no. It was all three of our oldest kids. They were going off to summer camp that week or so. And one of my cousins I have a cousin that was murdered a couple years ago by like, ten years ago by her husband. So my one cousin I had spoken with on the phone.
Phoebe I called her because her brother had killed himself. It's it's horrible.
Scott Benner Oh my god.
Phoebe So, yeah, it's just a it was a train wreck. He had bipolar disorder and had killed himself, so I called her just to check up with her.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Phoebe And then for some reason, I told her about what I had going on. And, you know, we hung up the phone, and then she called me back. She's like, I'm calling your dad. Your dad needs to know because my family didn't know. She said, I'm so worried that something's gonna happen.
Scott Benner Yeah. Well, can we can we pick this up? Let let's do this.
Phoebe Yeah. I'm all over the place. I'm sorry.
Scott Benner You're fine. Phoebe, listen. Everything's fine. If anyone deserves to be all over the place, it's you. So, but let me say let me say this.
Scott Benner Right? We're recording I think you're my last. Am I am I a lunatic? Am I recording on New Year's Eve? Anyway, you're one or two of the last you're one of my last couple of interviews of 2025.
Scott Benner Right? Mhmm. And you and I did this, originally, what, '24. So it's been '24 to '25. I mean, it's coming up on two years, you know, in a couple of months since you and I recorded this.
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner I still, like, remember your situation, which, again, I'm gonna tell you is kind of uncommon because I record so much content that, like, sometimes people say to me, like, oh, you remember this happened? I'm like, I I don't know what you're talking about. And then I go back and I listen. I go, oh, I remember that. That was awesome.
Scott Benner But yours really sticks with me. And even just this little recap here for the first few minutes of your conversation reminds me of of why it it stuck with me so long. But I wanna make sure I understand the timeline. You and I record.
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner The next day, you're in the church with your husband seeking counseling that he wants you to seek. You're not really down with that. And then you, you know, say I wanna get separated. I kinda wanna move forward from there because you said there were things that happened. Like, so for people who think like, that's the that's the end of the story.
Scott Benner He left and everything was fine. Like, let's go back to there for a minute. First of I can't imagine how difficult it was to sit in a room that is clearly designed for you to sit there and listen and then go back and be be a good girl and and be a wife and let this guy do whatever he wants to do to you. And so you gotta fight through his desire for you to do that. I'm assuming the pressure that the priest is sitting there.
Scott Benner Right? Like, and you don't wanna let God down and and your your marriage and all that stuff.
Phoebe Well, the children is because we have all these children.
Scott Benner Yeah. So all that pressure is there in the room with you, but you still, like, persevered and said, no. It's all good. I'd like you to leave. Right?
Phoebe Yes. I said I I looked at a pastor in the eye and said, I I want a separation. And I I do believe that my husband, he was the one who called the meeting. I believe that he did it to get me to back down
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe By talking to the pastor. And that was his, and, yeah, the pastor pastors are wonderful, but most cannot counsel through, especially in an abusive marriage. So he he's against divorce. He said, Phoebe, can you spend more time with your husband? Is what the solution was going to be.
Phoebe And I said, I want a separation. So he stormed off. I went home, which is terrifying because I have no idea what's gonna happen. And I don't even remember cut you
Scott Benner off for a half a second? I feel bad doing this. Mhmm. You laid out your entire situation to that pastor, and he said, hey. I have an idea.
Scott Benner Why don't you hang out with the guy a little more?
Phoebe Yes. Thinking that we needed more time alone, some dates, that kind of thing. We got all these kids.
Scott Benner You were honest with him about all the stuff that you explained to me in the in the episode. And that and he's like, you you guys probably just need to go to a movie.
Phoebe Yeah. Yes. And that I mean, I I know everyone has varying degrees, but I had gone on my own to talk to the pastor several times. And when I went on my own, he was more sympathetic. At one point, he said, yes.
Phoebe You may need to separate. But then coming in together
Scott Benner Pressured him too, do you think?
Phoebe Yes. Because I think by by my husband saying, just want my wife that that's what he's was said. I just want my wife. I think that made him think, oh, he really wants to work on this. So
Scott Benner Was there any time during that meeting that your husband admitted to doing any of the things that you said, or did he just go, I don't do that when you brought it up?
Phoebe He wasn't even asked on any of that.
Scott Benner But, I mean, you said it in front it would be like if it would be like if three people were in a room, and I said, hey. Do you see that person over there? They heat up a a metal stick every night and stick it on my ass and burn me. And then I said to the third person, can you please help me? And then the guy said, what'd he say?
Scott Benner Is that true? Does he does he redirect to your husband, or does your husband just sit there and go, and then we move on and you should go on to a movie? Like, I'm trying to understand the counseling part of this.
Phoebe Yes. I and I don't remember all the details. I I don't think we went into all of the things that would happen as what was going on in our home. I had told the pastor that, and my and the pastor, he knew
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe That he went my husband was threatening to kill himself. He he did because he he did go in on his own to talk to him, and he did admit to that, which on the surface, it's the I mean, it's bad.
Scott Benner Yeah. I gotta tell you, Phoebe. Like, the if I'm remembering your problem correctly and from this, I the only thing that was gonna fix that problem was a long walk off a short pier, not catching, Marley and me. It just I I don't know. It's it seems crazy to me.
Escalating Threats and Safety Planning
Scott Benner Okay. So you stuck up for yourself and you're like, you know, I'm getting the hell out of here. Like, everybody go. What happens then? He comes home, packs a bag, says ta ta or No.
Scott Benner No. What what goes on?
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Phoebe No. I don't remember all the dates, but I I do know he he was around, and he had all kinds of erratic behavior. One thing and this it was all in pretty quick succession. One day, I walk my dog. There's an elderly man in the neighborhood that our dogs have play dates with.
Phoebe We go pick the dogs. We play in the backyard together. Mhmm. So the gentleman used to come to our house and play in the front yard with the kids, but he didn't like that. My husband didn't like that.
Phoebe And the guy my friend, he picked up on it. So I didn't wanna give up my dog walks. Dogs need to play, two golden retrievers.
Scott Benner K.
Phoebe So one day, he just came in the house while I was cooking in front of my kids, yelling that he is going to go pound on the guy's door and give him a piece of his mind, like, man to man. And this man is, you know, older gentleman, like, retirement age, and my husband is was bigger than him. And I told him and said, I am calling the police if you go down there. We you know, we had a verbal argument, and he left. And that night, I called I have a law enforcement friend, and I told him what's going on.
Phoebe He's like, he said, I'm not your knight in shining armor. He I love we we are good friends. Him him and his wife were good friends. But his point was, I cannot rescue you. You need to call the police.
Phoebe You need to file a report for all this because he just threatened to attack an elderly man, and you know it if he does it. And you and I are complicit in knowing about this behavior, this
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Thought process he has. So I did I filed a report that night. He forced me to. He said you have twenty minutes to do it. If you don't call, I'm gonna do it for you.
Phoebe Mhmm. I got the lieutenant talk from him. So that was one thing that happened. My kids got ready to go to camp, and they leave very early in the morning. And my husband said he was gonna drop them off at camp because that's the last time he's gonna see them.
Phoebe He's gonna kill himself while they're at camp. So but he didn't he doesn't get up early. I drop off the kids at camp, and then my dad and my uncle come into town to stay with me because they were afraid for me being home alone with just our two younger children.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe And that's that's when it really blew up. He and I had always known in my head I was completely done if he took our money. So he he changed the, withdrawal on our accounts. So there is no money to pay the bills. No.
Phoebe The mortgage, they they just started bouncing. It was all an automatic payment. He just switched it, and I didn't have any income yet. I think I had interviewed at the school by that time to be I'm a food nutrition. I'm a cafeteria lady now, but I hadn't started working yet.
Phoebe I was gonna start in July. So never would part pick an argument in front of our family, but he did with my dad about the money in the bank accounts. He started arguing with me. My dad was in the kitchen, and my dad would try to talk to him, and he just blew off my dad and took off. So at this point, my dad was only gonna be there for a week, and he had known about the threatening of taking his life.
Phoebe And I think in the first episode, I told you he had, loaded, like, a year previous to this when it all started, and I realized it was a mental health issue. He had loaded a gun in front of me in the night Mhmm. And said he was gonna kill himself. So my dad he says, I'm not leaving until you have all the guns out of your house. So my dad and I packed up the guns, and we brought them to my friend's house that I talked to on the phone.
Phoebe He's law enforcement.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Has a gun safe. So we drove over there, and I didn't know he was tracking me. He had taken off one of the tracking the family. I think it would be in Life 360. He had gotten out of there, but we were parked in my friend's driveway getting ready to leave.
Phoebe And I get a text message with a map circling where I was. He's like, whose house are you at, and what are you doing there? Which really freaked me out because
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe He's law enforcement, a former SWAT team, and the whole bit. And my my friend had told me, if if anyone, you know, comes to my door threatening my family
Scott Benner This could be a different situation than if the old man gets that knock. Right?
Phoebe Yeah. Yes. He's not gonna mess around. So he's like, you you have to do something about this. He he cannot you know, because they were started they're watching for his vehicle out there, you know, at this point because they were kinda involved in it.
Scott Benner Yeah. This guy's not looking to put your husband down on the in the front yard. Right? So he doesn't want that problem.
Phoebe No. But he he would if he Yeah.
Scott Benner No. I hear what you're saying. Yeah.
Phoebe Yeah. Because that you don't know what's gonna happen. And he's still living with us. It's just crazy. And then, we go pick up the kids at camp.
Phoebe I do, anyway. That, in the evening, they get back at night. It's a long drive. And my dad and my uncle were still there. My uncle, they drove a camper van.
Phoebe They're camped out in our driveway in the van. And he was they're out with my two younger girls, the two ones with diabetes. And he came in. He knew they were there. And my neighbors I had a good friend across the street.
Phoebe I have a I had a whole bunch of people watching out for me. Mhmm. My neighbor across the street, she texted me because she could hear she must have heard saw him come up, and he just laid on the horn blasting the horn about the money thing. I don't know if you want me to tell you all this.
Scott Benner I no. Are you kidding me, Phoebe? This is fascinating. Because this moment that you're talking about, how far removed from the conversation with the pastor is this?
Phoebe How much time?
Scott Benner Yeah. Between the pastor conversation and this blowing the horn.
Phoebe Mhmm. Probably about ten days.
Scott Benner Okay. This is my My point is is that you go through more in a week and a half than most people would be able to deal with in their entire life. And you're talking about stories of, like, standing in the kitchen and screaming and yelling. Like, you fight like, the kids are the kids like, hey. This is just Tuesday here.
Scott Benner Mhmm. Or yeah. Because this is how everything always is. So you don't need to, like, walk me through the entire thing. How long was it from the pastor's conversation?
Scott Benner By the way, I just I love that he's like, you should just date a little more. I mean, is anyone listening to this? Wait. From there till your husband moving out, your ex moving out. Is he your ex now?
Scott Benner Yes. Okay.
Phoebe He is.
The Immediate Aftermath
Scott Benner Till your ex moving out, finally. How long was that time till he got out of the house?
Phoebe It was actually that this next morning that he looked for an apartment because I did end up calling the police
Scott Benner Okay.
Phoebe Because there's another threat made in front of all of our children that just came home from camp.
Scott Benner Does he have a mental health diagnosis or just or is it just your assumption?
Phoebe He does. He he does, not, psychiatric because he, in into this buildup, I did have him see a psychiatrist, but that that was all we could get him in for, was for medication. He did agree. And all this time for the first time with that handgun up until now, I told him I wanted him to get counseling. And he saw a couple therapists, but none of it ever sticks.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Phoebe I've been told, like, borderline personality disorder, which he at the he agreed with at the time. He said that makes sense. And most likely, a narcissistic personality disorder, which they commonly will go together.
Scott Benner Mhmm. Yeah.
Phoebe When when we got married, I knew nothing about mental health. And
Scott Benner Now you know too much about it.
Phoebe Yes. I would know way more than I would ever want to know, but he never wanted to see therapy. I knew when we got married, was very naive. Yep. We don't need a therapist.
Phoebe I won't ever see a therapist, which sounded fine to me. But
Scott Benner When he's gone and it's clear he's moved out, the is there any reduction in your stress or anxiety, or does it just shift to a different problem?
Phoebe Well, he moved out. He he got in an apartment that next day after the night with the police coming again. He his argument I was very shocked. He was arguing with the police. They did not take him.
Phoebe They they just said sleep in different rooms. They that's what they told us.
Scott Benner Have you guys tried Marley and me? Jesus. Yeah. Where do you live? Actually, you can't tell me that, but go ahead.
Scott Benner I I apologize.
Phoebe No. Yeah. So he he got the apartment. It took a week for him to leave. He would not leave until and we had more issues.
Phoebe I didn't call the police again, but he found another firearm that I had not found. And I had to try I tried getting it away from him late one night. The last night he was home, my oldest daughter and I, I slept on the floor in her bedroom with him, like, stomping around, throwing stuff around, pounding on the door, mask texting me. And I think it was that next day was the last day. And that was the scariest time, I will tell you, from the time he agreed to get that apartment until he was gone.
Scott Benner Right.
Phoebe It was pretty horrible. But he immediately got on dating apps and started dating, and he had one girlfriend. He ended up buying a house immediately. She moved in with him, and that was very short lived. He's he's the one that had a problem with her.
Scott Benner Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. He shacked up with somebody, and he kicked her out?
Phoebe Yes. He he he knew within two weeks that he bought this house, and she moved in. And he knew within two weeks. And he was coming to me because I I have a friend. I I that's another whole story.
Phoebe But he just heard me talking to him. He was like, you treat him like a child. You sound like you're talking to a child. Because I, you know, I I run over the the Aftershocks headsets a lot, and there's one headset where, you know, people can hear my conversation. Yeah.
Phoebe So he's heard this, and he's like, sounds like you're talking to a child.
Scott Benner Well, a I'm assuming you're it sounds like you're talking to a dog you're trying to get not to attack you.
Phoebe Yes.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Or or a child. Yeah. Because you you have to placate. You kind of you're a handler of types.
Scott Benner Yeah. You're you're managing the mental illness and the emotion and all of the So crazy narcissistic things that he's thinking and and all the the demands that he's made and all of the, times he's told you he's gonna take his own life. Like, right like, that's all in your head every time you're speaking to
Phoebe Yes. Yeah. It is. And she yeah. He knew right away, and he would come and talk to me.
Phoebe It's like to find, like, advice. I I couldn't believe it, but you are
Scott Benner Oh, wait a minute. Long after he moves out is he coming to you like you're the AI bot in in Tinder? What it what it what it by the way, does Tinder not have an AI bot? Oh, I'm having an idea. Hold on a sec.
Scott Benner Like, you're right. Because he's coming to you with his dating issues. How long after he moved out is he doing that?
Phoebe Within about three months. He he
Scott Benner Get out of here. Are you
Phoebe Yes.
Scott Benner You must have been so thrilled he was gone. No?
Phoebe Yes. I was. Yeah. He he was so focused on finding
Scott Benner A new woman to abuse.
Phoebe Yes. Yeah. And he that that was all he and he didn't even think it was weird. And and for for me, I've kinda figured out. It's like I but was in a way a parent, like a mother.
Phoebe Mhmm. You know, because you come talk to me about your problems. What should I do? How do I deal with this? And, they broken off, and it it was pretty it was not as bad.
Phoebe I wasn't so worried for our safety, but he would they call it a split. He'd mass text me and phone call, just kinda erratic behavior until he got another girlfriend. Goddamn. That was in June. They start they met in June online.
Phoebe They're all online. And she we went over there on Father's Day. I brought the kids over because they don't real they're not real comfortable going there.
Scott Benner No. Really? Yeah.
Phoebe They spend very little time. Like, like, a couple hours every few weeks. Like, he he's gone six to eight weeks without seeing them at all because he was on this dating binge trying to find a new one. So he met her in June. I brought my son over to cut his grass.
Phoebe He'd pay him for the kid to cut grass. And in August, he told me that they're gonna get married. They're getting married anytime now in January, the new one.
Scott Benner God bless. I listen. I I gotta tell you something. I've devoted the last thirty some years to the woman that's, across the hall from me right now. And Mhmm.
Scott Benner Last night with a head cold, I put together furniture. And I have less luck getting kindness out of her than your husband does out of getting out of people. I don't know what is happening.
Phoebe Yeah. He it's kind of a and he's not. I I have I crack up because I have a a friend. We went out to dinner. Her brother was there.
Phoebe He's from the North. He has a strong accent. And what he knew about our divorce, he's like, I don't understand. He's no Casanova.
Scott Benner Even if he had like, I I'm sure I've I've I was an idiot in the first episode, and they asked you if he was super handsome or had a big penis or something like that. But, like, there's nothing going on like that. Right?
Phoebe No. He he's just the average guy, and he when I met him, he just seemed honest. Like, he wasn't
Scott Benner Well, I mean, listen. You're seeing it now in real time. Whatever it is he does works because it worked on two ladies in succession.
Phoebe Yes. He has kinda he he I mean, he seems really calm and laid back, and people will say that he's just very quiet. He's good at fixing things. And as soon as he left, he started working out, and he is he looks in in good
Scott Benner shape for his. Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming he seems calm till he's loading a revolver in front of you and talking about killing himself. And then I imagine it doesn't seem so calm anymore, but by then, you're vested. You got these kids.
Scott Benner You got a life. Like, you know yeah. Right. Like, he pulls that on day 15. You're out of there.
Phoebe But Yeah. Do believe that is the rush to get for them to get married. And already, she lived in a different state a few hours away, but she moved in, and now she's not working. She's quit her job because he has this fancy house.
Scott Benner Yeah. And that's part of the scam too is to get her, like, in a situation where she's got no way to nowhere to go or no money to do it with.
Phoebe Yes. They just went on a three week tour across The United States. The kids can see she tags him all the time on her Facebook. So he they see everything that they've been up to. Very a lab a very expensive vacation that I know that he could not afford.
Scott Benner It's all part of the play to get her in. And then he'll marry her up, get her locked down, and then start screaming at her that he's gonna kill himself and that she's you know, that she's talking to a 75 year old man in a dog park, and I'm gonna have to go beat his ass. Like, that kind of stuff will start immediately. So that you think the rush to get married is that he's having trouble holding all that in?
Phoebe I think so. I I think he can only do it for so long. And from when I've read, the older people get it, it's harder to
Scott Benner Hold the crazy down.
Phoebe Which makes sense. Yes. Well, because you don't care as you know, older, you get you're you're more relaxed about things, and I think it's harder to to hide it. And the
Scott Benner Can I say real quickly, like, I I wouldn't make light of mental health, and I don't have any lighthearted feelings about it, but that's big picture when I look at the world? I would I would like people like your ex husband to get as much help as possible and that he's not out there affecting other people or, you know, having a worse time in life than he could be. It's when you talk about it on this personal level. Like, when I'm just thinking about you and your children. There have been times in this conversation that we've had just today where I thought, oh, man.
Scott Benner It would have been great if he would have killed himself. Like, at least you could have got the hell out of that. But, like, no. It wouldn't have because then that would have hit you and you would have you know, there would have been some poor person with mental health whose life would have been lost. And on top of all that, you would have felt guilty about it for the rest of your life probably for not helping him.
Scott Benner God knows. I don't know how that would happen to you, but I'm pretty sure it would have. There's no easy way out of this. Like, this is a rock in a hard place times 30. But I'm not kidding you, Phoebe.
Scott Benner If you just took the last thirty minutes of this conversation and took it to a screenwriter and said, turn this into a ninety minute horror movie, it would be an action thriller. Like, it it really would. It it's it's insane, and you don't see it that way as I'm sure you do now better than before, but, like, you're so steeped in it. You don't know, like, you don't know you're in a Scream movie. I'm waiting for you to, like, go up to this other woman and just yell, run.
Scott Benner Like like but but You know?
Phoebe Know how it it is because if if I chose to say anything, she would just think I'm some kinda jealous woman trying
Scott Benner to get
Phoebe him Yeah. Back and not believe me. And it is sounds horrible, but he is much better with someone because I've not those splits that I talked to, I've not had one. The last one that I had to deal with was on Easter Sunday, and that was a horrific time, very traumatic for my children. That was just over the phone because they heard him on the phone.
Scott Benner Yeah. Well, that's pretty
Phoebe My youngest, she has not forgotten these things. She remembers I think she was seven when some of this went on. She's you know, she knew that her dad wanted to kill himself, and she's told people this. My 18 year old son even just now, he'll because they do see him off and on. They like working on trucks by two boys, and their dad knows how to fix trucks.
Phoebe And he's he's like, should I text dad to see if I can use this? I don't wanna make I don't want him to get angry. He's 18. And then we you know, we're we're I'm visiting my parents right now. I'm at their house.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Phoebe And does grandpa have I'm he's learning welding in school. Does grandpa have a welder? Can I ask grandpa if I can use his welder? I don't want him to get angry. That's coming from an 18 year old boy.
Scott Benner Yeah. That's crazy.
Phoebe The youngest like, they knew she had told the youngest that they were getting married. The dad has never had a conversation with them about getting married. So the she'll ask me things, and I'll say, well, you need to ask your dad because I don't know. I don't wanna make him angry. You know, they will see him.
Phoebe They will eat dinner with him.
Scott Benner You're in a room with a dog on a chain. Everything you think if I move, this thing's gonna bite me. Yes. Right. It's just yeah.
Scott Benner It's it's terrible. Like, there's nothing good about it. Let's fast forward so we all don't just feel like jumping off the bridge. Okay.
Dating After Abuse
Phoebe Yes. Because it does get better.
Scott Benner It gets better. Get to the part where you when's the first day in this process where you thought, oh, wow. Things are turning around. How long does that take to happen, and then what happens next?
Phoebe Well, it it does take a a while because after he left, I I was tired. I slept a lot.
Scott Benner I bet you are. Jesus Christ.
Phoebe Because you're not sleeping a lot. It's very hard to get good sleep. So I started a job. My kids were homeschooled as a homeschool mom. I put my kids in public school.
Phoebe I go to work, and for a while, I would cry every day driving to work. Just I don't even know why I was crying. I just cry the whole way to to work. And then, you know, I'd come home. I'd take a nap.
Phoebe We'd eat something. I'd nap until it's time to get the kids to bed, and then I'd go to sleep. But I was and this is kind of my current situation. I I mean, I still I'm doing things around the house, but it was just you're so tired. But I was in a support group for long term partners of people dealing with this kind of thing.
Phoebe As in this group is men and women all over the world, actually, Australia. There's a lot in Australia, Canada in this group. So last fall, we got divorced in December. He moved out, I think, in July 1 was when he moved out. So there's a gentleman from the group that messaged me just because he's a Christian fellow.
Phoebe He was asking me something, and he has been separated. So the podcast and I don't know when it aired. Or
Scott Benner I think it went up in October '24.
Phoebe Yeah. We had started chatting that fall, and I put the podcast in my group. I have not ever I won't ever put it on my social media or broadly. Sure. I'm very selective who I let hear this whole thing, but he heard it.
Phoebe And he, might I I or this gentleman, he heard this. He's a he's a writer. So he his wife has borderline, and they had a lot of issues. He is in my parents' house right now is what I'll tell you.
Scott Benner Wait. Are we date are we dating?
Phoebe Yes. He and, like, six weeks ago, he asked my dad. He called my dad to see if he could date me. I'm 51. He's 49.
Phoebe He lives in another state. I he listened to my podcast, and we were just, like, random, not not important questions. But when he listened to the podcast, he said, I wonder if I could be in her life after hearing my story on the podcast.
Scott Benner Oh. So Hey. If you ever are happy, I think I I I think it's gonna be because of me. I love this. What a great story this is for me.
Scott Benner Yes. I'm just teasing some.
Phoebe Yeah. Well, you know that and that's why I'm here again. But
Scott Benner Oh, you're here to say thank you. Go ahead, please. Let me be quiet.
Phoebe But he's he's actually, it's a slow process because he I think he's a year ahead of me on getting out of his marriage. It takes a long time to get over all this. We're not rushing off to get married. We're not gonna get married next week or anything. And he's just meeting my children now.
Phoebe This we this is a neutral place for him to meet my children. Like, we visited each other a couple times in the last Oh,
Scott Benner this is lovely. Summer. Congratulations.
Phoebe Yeah. He he well, he's writing a fictionalized story of this because I had never heard of borderline personality disorder. And especially and I'm a Christian. I will keep going to church, but that is one area where churches are really they really struggle is with the mental health.
Scott Benner Yes. No. I mean, I I figured that out. He was like, have you guys thought of splitting a hotdog together? Thanks, pastor Bill.
Scott Benner Yeah. Did I tell you the story when I took a when I took a pillowcase full of firearms to my friend's house to lock them up and still didn't find them all? Who do think? They should head out to the A And W, do a drive up, you fucking idiot? Yeah.
Phoebe I know. It it it's very it's very sad. I mean, it's just out of their realm. They're not that's not their area
Scott Benner of expertise. I don't I I think I could show this to somebody from Mars, and they'd have better advice for you than that. That's ridiculous. By the way, full, I I would like it if they used the when your when your new friend's writing, he can say Juice Box podcast. I'm happy with that.
Phoebe Yes. Well, we had already talked about that.
Scott Benner So Juice Box capitalized, box is lowercase b one word.
Phoebe Yes. Well, we he we will have that in there. I mean, I'm I am he's doing all the work, but we're it's a story together of two recovering people because it is a long process.
Scott Benner Imagine you're ever gonna be recovered from this. I just think there'll be versions of it where you feel better as you get older.
Phoebe Yes. It is yeah. It's a a ugly
Scott Benner Goddamn right.
Phoebe Even I've had people say, ask me, well, was he hitting you? And if you if you say no, even today, and I'm not I'm talking secular people, they will they don't consider abuse until you're getting hit.
Scott Benner Yeah. You go pish posh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Benner No. No. No. Just waving a gun around. Right? That's okay.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah.
Phoebe Yeah. And even with that, there are I it it is shocking.
Scott Benner It Well, then let me let me be kinder to the pastor. Apparently, there's a lot of people who don't understand anything, not just him. I I mean, honestly, like, any bit like, seriously, if I took your conversation from now and the other one and just chopped it up into three minute bits, randomly chopped it up into three minute bits, I bet you I'd hear I bet you I'd hear 20 things that you'd say that I would make me think, oh, you should get away from that person.
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner I can't possibly have more compassion for you because, like, to hear you, you're such a lovely person. And I do remember that, you know, you got together when you were young, you were locked in, married for life, like, that kind of, you know, kind of Christian value thing. And, you know, you put up with a lot thinking this was just the way it is.
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner You know, it's you you don't no one deserves this. And even the way you're talking about it now is a credit to the kind of person that you are. I sincerely hope that that gets to all your children, you know, slowly, but I don't think there's any doubt. Like, there's I mean, that is dad gonna be mad? Well, my grandfather who's never been angry at me once in my life, will he be mad if I ask him to borrow something?
Scott Benner Like, that's that's therapy right there. Somebody needs to go to talk to somebody. You know what I mean?
Phoebe Yes. And they have the boys have a
Scott Benner Good.
Phoebe Very good therapist. The kids well, all but one, she won't do it, but they're all in therapy. And a new this gentleman and I was convinced I'm I'm not ever gonna date anyone. We were friends. We're just chatting.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Phoebe Chatting, chatting, chatting, and then talking and then video calls. But, and I will say it is not I know it's not the same situation because a lot of people and that is the concern. My like, my therapist, you don't wanna jump into anything because you're you're very prone to getting into the same thing. You go from one if you don't do do the work.
Scott Benner Your radar detector on this might not be great.
Phoebe Yeah. Yeah. That was the concern. My the therapist I see knows, borderline personality very well. That's why I chose her.
Phoebe And he, the person I'm with now, he's done therapy with me and her together virtually, and he is complete opposite. He is therapy, relationships. How are you feeling? It just
Scott Benner We're talking about your gentleman caller, that guy.
Phoebe Yes.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Yeah. Yeah. Yes. He he everything is different. It it's like it I
Scott Benner can't should definitely have somebody vet him for you. That's a good idea.
Phoebe I Yeah. I have I have had multiple people vet him.
Scott Benner So May I say, I find this to be even more important because this story where I helped you get back into the world, if that guy ends up putting you in a trunk and driving you to Poughkeepsie, that's gonna feel like my fault. You know what I mean? Like so, yeah. Let's let's really bet him really well. Make sure he's a rock solid guy.
Scott Benner Okay?
Phoebe Yeah. Yeah. He he he is. I I didn't even know people like that existed. Honestly, because I I should have known I mean, looking back, hindsight is twenty twenty, isn't it?
Phoebe But you should be able to talk to someone about everything and how you feel. And one thing I've realized is I don't even know how I'm feeling a lot of times, and I've had to learn how to do that because it didn't matter how I was feeling before. You have to just keep doing. And I've got two kids with type one
Managing Diabetes Amidst Chaos
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Insulin pumps pumps and Dexcom. So all of this is going on, and I'm still managing their diabetes through all of this. And now I'm doing it all alone as a single working parent with the two kids and managing my own health and then the mental health. You know, juggling therapy appointments, and kids are learning how to drive and first jobs all at all at the same time.
Scott Benner Sure. Sure.
Phoebe So it is
Scott Benner Well, listen. First of all, the crying on the way to work, I'd keep doing that. That's a good emotional release. I I I'd make that part of my day if I was you. I wonder too I and I know not enough about this to say this out loud, but it's a podcast.
Scott Benner So here we go. I wonder if you guys have, like, a version of Stockholm syndrome. Like, do you think that you that you, you know, basically, he was your captor and and you feel bad for him at this point? Like, do you know what mean? Like, does that happen after time where, like, even though all these crazy things are happening, you're like, oh, the poor guy is not well.
Phoebe Actually, I I think there is some of it because, in the guy I'm with now, he has been able to turn off more of his emotion towards his person. There is a still a sense of help. They they have two adult children together, So Mhmm. There is some help there. He doesn't feel as bad as I do.
Phoebe And I don't really know about feeling bad. I I can't even
Scott Benner describe it. I meant your kids and you with your ex. Like Yes. Yeah. That feeling of, like, you're protective of him.
Scott Benner But what were you trying to say about the new guy? I'm sorry.
Phoebe You get this ingrained. It's like that you're naturally a caretaker. I'm naturally a caretaker.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe He's naturally a caretaker. He's able to turn it off more than I am. And I don't know if it's because he he's a male or more analytical.
Scott Benner I have to tell you, wife would have punched your husband in the face and left, I'm gonna guess, 25 ago. The second time that he said something that's sideways, she would have been like, what's going on here? And then that would have been the end of it. I can't even get, like you know what I'm saying? Like, she's tough.
Scott Benner And, like and you're you're so nice. You're so nice that you let bad things happen to you. Have you ever looked back on that? Like, I know you got married really young. Right?
Scott Benner Were you 18?
Phoebe No. No. Not that yeah. I I didn't have a lot of dating experience. Just some casual dating.
Phoebe So he was the first real
Scott Benner Person you date.
Phoebe But boyfriend.
Scott Benner But my my question is is were you just raised to be very accommodating to people, or is that your personality, you think?
Phoebe Yes. And we see it I'm here now. My, my mother my mom has been sick. Right before we came, she was diagnosed with, leukemia that they're not gonna treat because of her her age. And our family it my dad is, like, the sweetest, most wonderful man.
Phoebe Everyone just loves my dad.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Phoebe So I'm here. You know, my brothers came over. We had a big dinner. My mom says, you're in charge of all of it because I can't do it, and I'm trying to keep my dad from doing too much work. And my friend, he notices too.
Phoebe He's like, no one is even doing the dishes. You're doing all the dishes. You're doing everything all by yourself. And that's how I I grew up. So
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe I I love my family. But now that I'm older and more mature, I can see how it all started.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's really something. You've been on a journey. Yeah.
Scott Benner It's not half over. I mean, you've already lived three lives, to be perfectly honest with you. Wow. That's something.
Phoebe There's a lot of self awareness. You have to really learn yourself and pay it.
Scott Benner How do you keep up with the diabetes stuff since I like, when I interviewed the last time, you had did you have one kid with a hypo one then?
Phoebe No. I we had two. Okay. 02/2018 and 2021, And I I hate to say it, but a lot of times we are just winging it. I I mean and now I'm working.
Phoebe I have I'm forced to, you know, make sure pumps are charged and, you know, pump sites, you know, before going to work.
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Phoebe It's not perfect. I hear these people, they have these excellent kids' a one c's or five, and they eat no carbs, and they
Scott Benner just Those are white those are those are white ladies doing TikToks in their spare time. Don't worry. You you got a good reason. You're fine.
Phoebe Yes. Yes. But we're not we're not running any alarm bells or anything on the kids. I I mean, they're doing fine. And in fact, the oldest, she's 13.
Phoebe I went this is a big deal. I went away for three nights last fall, and she would she changed her sister's pump for her. I think it fell off or something. So she I do most of it, but the I'm the oldest she can do it. She just chooses not to yet.
Phoebe So that's what we're working on. But she's gonna go to camp this summer, the 13 year old. Yeah. And that reminds me that we need to push. She knows how to do it.
Phoebe She just doesn't like to do it, and I think that's kinda normal.
Scott Benner Let me slip this in here, just because you said that I've already given away two slots at Camp Sweeney in Texas, but I I have four more to give away. So when you hear this, if juiceboxpodcast.com/giveaways is still up, you there's still time to enter to to, win a slot at Camp Sweeney. Okay. You know, for those people who, enjoy and you absolutely could enter as well.
Phoebe Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Yes.
Scott Benner Well, my goodness. Like so okay. Let's dig into this for a little bit. So right now, your type ones are how old?
Phoebe 10 and 13.
Scott Benner 10 and 13. The older one is a little more immature about it, little more wanting help, that kind of stuff?
Phoebe Yeah. She she can do it, but she she'll do it if I if I'm not there. She'll do it, but does not really wanna take ownership of I'm talking about pump site changes and Dexcom. She's more I don't understand why, but she's more likely to change her pump site than the Dexcom. She doesn't wanna change her Dexcom.
Phoebe So I don't know if it's the if it's hard for her to reach. But I do know the g seven, sometimes that button we have a hard time with it. We for us, we have to really press it into their skin so it doesn't always release as easily as the g six, and that might be part of what's going on with it.
Scott Benner Think it's a a laziness or a a desire to have you involved or something like or anything like that? You think it's more functional?
Phoebe It could be functional. She's dealing with some things. I'm learning about her. She she's my very challenging child. I don't know what she has going on.
Phoebe We've, had a few evaluations for her. She's very smart.
Scott Benner She's not taking after her dad, is she?
Phoebe No. I'm not sure
Scott Benner what direction that's. You're trying to figure that out. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the other thing is that, like, this is I mean, that's gonna be in your mind for the rest of your life too. Right?
Scott Benner Like
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner Yeah. What what are you looking for there?
Phoebe I'm not sure. We had a evaluation with a child psychologist, and they called it, autism and selective mutism. I've I've heard the selective mutism before, but she since I put her in public school, she has friends. She talks to everyone is just shocked because she talks to people. She wears makeup.
Phoebe She's very pretty. She knows she's very pretty. So I and she just told me on the strip. She says, I don't have autism. I wanna do that again, and they will see how smart I am.
Scott Benner She's like she's like, hey. I I feel like I failed that autism test. I think I could do better.
Phoebe Well And and I think it's because she's noncooperative. She wouldn't speak Oh.
Scott Benner At all. Oh, I see.
Phoebe So I think my guess is she is very smart. And this is, like, kid terms. She likes she says she she likes to rage bait me is what she says.
Scott Benner She's like, I'm just screwing with you, lady. Watch this. Ugh. Awesome. Yes.
Scott Benner Yes. Did you say, hey. I should get a pass from stuff like this, but, know, it ain't it funny? That's not how it works. Yeah.
Scott Benner Your kids don't see your situation. They see it as their situation.
Phoebe Yes. Yeah. And she doesn't really talk about she out of all the kids, she's the one that doesn't talk about what has happened.
Scott Benner Really?
Phoebe Yes. Yeah. The younger one that's type one, she I do a lot of her stuff, but she can put a Dexcom on me, and she can put an infusion site on me. So I think we'll be for some I think they just don't wanna do it themselves. And I maybe it probably depends on all kids, but it just seems like they're not.
Scott Benner Yeah. I I think that's a fairly common thing. I don't I it would it'd be easy to commingle that with all your other issues, but I don't know. That just seems like a pretty common thing for kids growing up. Like, sometimes they just want a break.
Scott Benner You know what I mean? They're not looking for I think it's funny the way you know, sometimes I tell people, like, try not to see diabetes right away. You know, like, people are like, you know, my kid's sick. What do you think it has to do with the hype one? I'm like, hey.
Scott Benner It could just be sick. You know? And and then similarly here to you, like, I can see everything that happens to your kids. You could think like, well, what does this have to do with how they grew up and with our situation? But maybe it's just them being their age and, you know, just not wanting to be bothered putting on CGMs and pumps.
Scott Benner That's pretty normal.
Phoebe Yes. And that is my goal is to get them to function as adults. Especially the 13 year old. I don't it it sounds horrible, but I I think it's because we've had five kids. I homeschool them.
Phoebe I think I will be okay on them being launched into adults because I can see the light of me potentially having my own life again.
Scott Benner So Good for you. It's lovely. Ain't that nice? Yeah. I think you deserve it.
Scott Benner Maybe just give them all give them all $50 and tell them to go find their way. Like, hey. Listen. Yes.
Phoebe Well, that is your job as a parent to work yourself out of a job so they can live their own life. I mean, that that's what I'm working on.
Scott Benner Good for you. How come you haven't given up?
Phoebe Well and that is here's a plug for you because I have listened to you, and that, one thing I admire the most about you is you talk about resilience. And I don't know how to put that in my kids, and that's something I worry about. I because when I see my dad now and hit, like, every day when we were kids, study hard and get all your puzzles. Be the best you can be. That's what my dad would say.
Phoebe So every day, like, we have a lot of rotten days, and the next day, I just get up. And my mantra is do better today. You know, today will be better. That's what I try every day is that the next day it's gonna be better. So somehow, I don't know how, but I don't know if it's an inherent that some people have this.
Phoebe I I'm not sure. But I see I worry about my kids because I don't know that I see that, and I don't know if that comes maybe it doesn't come until you're an adult. I'm not sure, but that's my one worry.
Scott Benner Yeah. I think the thing that comes for them will come for them. Like, you know, they've had a different experience than you've had and the things that they'll be able to take from it and apply or, you know, the things that are gonna burden them. I I don't know that you can really impact all of that. You know?
Scott Benner It's happened now. Everything's in motion. You gotta gotta let it play out. Mhmm. You know?
Scott Benner And give them the best tools you can, and, hopefully, they'll pick some of them up. That's it. Yeah. I I'm with you. Like, I the other day what was I thinking the other day?
Scott Benner Arden and Kelly were sitting together, and I thought, oh my god. Like, Arden's, like, still in college, and we're only, like, two years removed from when, like, Kelly was pregnant. If I jump ahead two years, am I gonna find Arden to be a person who could have handled that or not? Like, is that just a function of the world and how it is today or her experience growing up? And there's part of me that says, like, you know, I have my successes where I have them because of the, you know, the things I had to go through, but not everybody makes it through those things.
Scott Benner So it's even hard to say, like, oh, I'm glad that happened to me because look, you know, because iron sharpens the steel, blah blah blah, like, you know, like, that whole thing, like, what if it would have, like, killed me? Like, what if it would have ripped me apart? Like, then that's not valuable. And at the same time, she hasn't had experiences like that. And what if not having those experiences ends up being a problem for her?
Scott Benner But then again, what if it's not? What if it turns out that the thing you were hoping for, which is for your kids not to grow up like you did, ends up being, you know, a great bonus? The problem is you're not the the problem with life and raising kids is that you're not gonna know until it's too late to do something about it. So you just have to pick a direction, be earnest about it, and hope for the best, and then look back over generations and decades and, you know, millennia and say to yourself, well, it's worked out mostly. So, you know, hopefully, it'll work out for us.
Scott Benner I mean, that really is all it is.
Phoebe You don't have any control even if you can see what path they're going on? Like and that's one thing I've learned from all of these kids is you cannot control them when they're little. You think you can control things for them, but you really can't. There's only so much you can make a kid do. So even if you see them going the wrong way, there's very little that you can do.
Scott Benner I couldn't possibly agree with you more, and I've I've tried to slip into the podcast over the years. You you meet a lot of people who are newly diagnosed, you know, as families. And the parents are right away like, you can see them. They're like, if I just do this and this and this and this and put all this in the right order, my kid's gonna have a great experience in life, and everything's gonna be fine. And I say to that, yeah, hopefully.
Scott Benner Mhmm. Like, but also you can't control the other part of it, like who they are. I think people spend a lot of time looking at outcomes and trying to decide, like, how did that person get to that situation? How can I be in that situation where my outcome is similar? But I don't think that's how it works.
Scott Benner Like, I just don't think that you can force yourself to be something that you're not. I think it's a lot of wasted time. Now the sadness is is that some people some people's parents want them to be lawyers. They end up being artists and that's a lovely story. But some people's parents want them to be artists and they end up being heroin addicts.
Scott Benner That's not a lovely story. Like, right Yeah. Like, your ex's parents probably, like, held that baby and was like, hey. Nothing but possibility here, and look what he did to
Phoebe you. Mhmm.
Scott Benner Right? And if you went and found them right now, they'd be like, I don't know. I didn't I didn't think that was gonna happen.
Phoebe No. Yeah. So And now when I talked to his mother, she said that there he was a troubled teenager. And there there's all these things, and there are kids who are troubled, like teenagers, young adults that turn out fine in the straight Right. In Harrow, but not all of them.
Phoebe And now she will say the because, we I'm in my home state right now. So the kids have seen both grandparents, but his mother just a couple weeks said we never had any problem with him, which we all know.
Scott Benner Wasn't quite well, as they get older, they start revising history pretty
Phoebe Yeah.
Scott Benner Yeah.
Phoebe Yeah. Yes. But that is just
Scott Benner She's worried god's not gonna let her in. You know what I mean? So Yeah.
Phoebe I have
Scott Benner to start backpedaling now.
Phoebe Yes. But, but the but I can't. There's nothing I can do about it.
Scott Benner No. No. No. But my my point is is that even if they saw him as troubled, I guarantee if you went back on the day that she thought, hey. Something's wrong with him.
Scott Benner If you would be able to tell her this story, she'd go, oh, that's not gonna happen. Like, you know what I mean? Like, nobody nobody thinks that's going to happen. And and I don't think that's ignorance sometimes. I just think that's hopefulness and, you know, it's just some my point is is that I'm agreeing with you.
Scott Benner You can't direct your children to be something they're not. No. There's too many variables and too much input in the world, and what's gonna happen is gonna happen. You lay a foundation and you model good behavior, and you hope they pick it up.
Phoebe Mhmm. That's the best you can do.
Scott Benner And so really all you can do, you should go off and and retire with this boy that you met in the thing and have some old people sex and and plant a garden or something like that. You know what I mean?
Phoebe I think it's probably actually better the older you are, honestly.
Scott Benner What? The garden or the sex? What were you saying there?
Phoebe Both.
Scott Benner Oh, good for you.
Phoebe Both. I would have never imagined. I and it it's too early. I mean, we're not running off into the sunset. Now we have a lot of things to get to do.
Phoebe Like, his career
Scott Benner You might wanna go slow. Yeah. It's very
Phoebe it is very slow. Like, he has to relaunch his whole career because he had a kind of a a more public image, and it is very hard to live a public image with this kind of stuff going on
Scott Benner Sure.
Phoebe In your
Scott Benner life. People pulling you
Phoebe down. Know. You never really I I think, like, we're good. I'm good now, but it it you you just you feel like you have to be careful to not
Scott Benner I would go I listen. I think going slow is a really good idea. Like, I mean, obviously, you guys have been through a lot, and I would understand trepidation. I would also understand you, you know, overvaluing the other person just because they're not screaming and yelling at you and waving a gun around. You might be like, this guy's perfect, but maybe probably not perfect.
Scott Benner He's just not screaming. You know what I mean?
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner So, yeah, take it slow. I mean but, you know, you're an adult. You can still do the old people sex. You don't have to take it. You have to take it that slow.
Phoebe Too far behind. So
Scott Benner Well, listen. Now I'm just imagining you tried to sneak off in your parents' house as a 50 year old. That's hilarious.
Phoebe It's not as easy as you would think.
Scott Benner As easy as think. I bet not. We have to go to the store.
Phoebe Yes. But we've had where we're at, we've had a lot of snow too. So
Scott Benner Oh, Jesus. So you can't do it in the car is what you're saying.
Phoebe I the only place to escape. It's got because that first episode I did I don't know if you remember. I was at my church. I went to my church to get away from the kids, and then we had the fire alarm going off. And then today, I'm sitting in there
Scott Benner In a garage. Van. In a minivan. Garage.
Phoebe I choked my
Scott Benner You're very dedicated to making this podcast. I really appreciate it. Hey. Listen. I I wanna say something because, you know, I joked a lot earlier, and I don't wanna joke.
Scott Benner If something about this podcast has helped you, I mean, you really just it it makes my day to know that. I'm really happy for you. You deserve any good thing that happens to you. You deserve it a 100 times over. So do your kids.
Scott Benner You know? Seriously, if I said something, did something, or put you in a position to whatever, you know, I'm grateful to know that.
Phoebe Yes. Yes. It has been a big help. And I was looking forward to coming and giving you an update because it is a such a radical difference where I'm at. And I am now considering, getting I might go back to school, college, either I already have a bachelor's degree, but either health care or education, maybe my master's degree to teach.
Phoebe Because the school schedule works out really well with the kids because it's just me. Their dad does not help with anything significant, so it's all
Scott Benner On you.
Phoebe Running the show right now.
Scott Benner Wow. It's a lot. Using hindsight, is there anything you could have done I'm not putting it on you. I'm saying, like, in hindsight, is there anything you could have done sooner that would have broken you free from this, like a piece of advice you could give somebody else?
Phoebe There are things that I I saw that I did not see. There there's a lot, But it this is my example. We moved a lot. The our home we live in, we moved to in 2012. And it was shortly after that I was told I'd wanna bring the kids up to see my family over the summer.
Phoebe We homeschooled. I didn't work. I think I I was stupid for not seeing it, but he'd say, I can't live without you. I will kill myself if you leave me home alone to see your family. And then, what kills me is I got divorced last December.
Phoebe My mom now has leukemia that they can't treat, and I'm just kicking myself a bit. You know, all those years I could have come and the kids could have spent more time with my family and known their uncles and but I just didn't see it. So if you live with someone who is talking about killing themselves, they they need help. You cannot save them, and that is not for you to help them out of. And I I will he he doesn't do it anymore, but I started saying when he wanted to talk when he talked about taking his life, I would say, I do I'm not equipped to help you.
Phoebe Here's a number for a hotline. And it sounds very cold, but, that is too much to have held over your head that someone's life is dependent upon you and you alone. Yeah. I should've probably twelve years ago if I had talked to someone. I should've that should've been my red flag to start working on getting out.
Scott Benner The separating you from other people who can, like, normalize your life and make you realize how crazy the thing is you're involved in, that's gotta be a big piece of it. The threats, I can't live without you, putting it on you that if something happens to them, it'll be your fault. That kind of stuff is, like those are huge red flags.
Phoebe Yes. Yeah. So that's long answer to the question.
Scott Benner But No. It's a good answer.
Phoebe Yeah. So anyone I if you are in that situation, you need to get help. It's too much to deal with alone.
Scott Benner Yeah. My gosh. I really I can't thank you enough for doing this. I wanna make sure that we've covered everything that you want to talk about, but I'm not rushing you. I'm just did you get through your thoughts, or you have something else?
Phoebe Well, I do have one other this is, not type one related, but I have had elevated a one c's, and I I've often on put on it my kids' Dexcom. I'm I'm going to see an endocrinologist in the spring, but I have when I sleep, my blood sugar goes up. When I if I just do a fasting finger stick in the morning, a lot of times it it's, like, a hundred, one twelve, one fourteen. But if I put that Dexcom on, I can see I'm up in like, up to as high as one forty overnight, like, hours after I've eaten. So I'm kinda wondering if because of my situation, my sleep has been so fractured from having type one kids, and he would wake me up at at night to argue.
Phoebe You know? So my sleep has always been really bad since the first type one diagnosis. So I don't know if it's a cortisol response. That's what I'm trying to figure out
Scott Benner Mhmm.
Phoebe If that can, like, push you over the edge into the diabetes world.
Scott Benner Oh, gosh. Yeah. So what are you doing right now? You're just monitoring?
Phoebe Yes. I go back in April. They they last summer, she tested for Cushing's, and they've checked. Yeah. I don't have any of the genetic markers for type one, but I'm over 50.
Phoebe And that's the other thing at my age. So many people say, well, everyone has die type two diabetes at your age. But
Scott Benner That's not true. Yeah. Yeah. You have you considered just everyone going to a beach and sitting down and and not just maybe living there forever? So you know what?
Scott Benner We we paid our toll already. I'm gonna stare at the ocean till it's over.
Phoebe Yes.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Phoebe Yeah. So it would be nice,
Scott Benner but Well can't hear you. Well
Phoebe So that's my other diabetes thing I'm trying to sort out.
Identifying Signs of Abuse
Scott Benner Thing you're sorting out. My gosh. I'd like to share this with everybody. So this is just a little bit of, like, back end research that I did while we were talking for the last hour. It can be really difficult to to see abuse.
Scott Benner I think that Phoebe's story outlines that. So here's some signs that you might be in an abusive relationship. There's like a doctor Jekyll and mister Hyde dynamic. The person can be charming and sweet one minute and explosive and terrifying the next minute, which makes you feel like you're walking on eggshells. If you're getting truly gaslit, they deny things that are happening, tell you you're crazy, you're imagining things, and it makes you question your own memory or your sanity.
Scott Benner Isolating you. They slowly cut you off from support, insult your friends, refuse to go to family events, or make you feel guilty for suspending time away from home. Humiliation, they put you down, call you names, make fun of you in private or public if you get upset. They claim you were they were just joking and that you're being too sensitive. Does all of that sound like
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner Okay. That, by the way, is just the first part. That's the emotional psychological signs. Physical stuff. Intimidation, blocking doorways so you can't leave a room, punching walls near your head, throwing objects to terrify you, reckless driving, driving dangerously, faster, erratically while you're in the car to scare you into a subissive situation.
Scott Benner Restraint holding you down, grabbing your wrists, pinning you against the wall during an argument, threatening to hurt you, themselves, your children, or your pets if you leave. All that sound like something that you've been through? Not the driving part? Like, is there, like, one thing where you're like, oh, got lucky there.
Phoebe Cat and mouse games. I I I kind of question the, like, the the road rage and that type of thing with with your passengers. Yes. But the threat threat to self harm that that All
Scott Benner that we do. Financial stuff. Strict allowances, giving you a set amount of money and demanding receipts for everything while they spend freely and and don't tell you what they're spending money on. Sabotage, preventing you from working or going to school, hiding car keys, starting fights before interviews, things like that.
Phoebe Waking you up when you're sleeping, not letting you sleep.
Scott Benner Oh, really? Just to make to make you unrested. Just, financial security, secrecy, hiding assets, taking out credit cards in your name without permission or refusing to let you see bank accounts. Digital signs, constant monitoring, demanding to know where you are at all times or using, like, find my friends or GPS trackers to stalk you, demanding your passwords froming you, forcing you to share your phone, your email, your social media passwords as proof that you love or trust them. Harassment, sending you a barrage of text or calls if you don't answer immediately.
Scott Benner Mhmm. Sexual coercion. Guilt tripping, uses phrases like, if you love me, you would do this, or pouting or punishing you for saying no. Ignoring boundaries, touching you when you've asked not to be touched, taking away condoms without your consent, wearing you down until you just give in to keep the peace. Yep.
Scott Benner If you're unsure, ask yourself this. Am I afraid of my partner? A healthy relationship, you may be angry, annoyed, or hurt by your partner. In an abusive relationship, you are afraid of their reaction. Yes.
Scott Benner Yep. If you recognize these signs, please know that leaving is a process that you do not have to do alone. The National Domestic Violence hotline, 80799 or +1 807997233, or you can text start to 88788. And safety planning, they can help you to create a safety plan to keep you safe while you're in this, relationship or while you're preparing to leave. Think we covered it?
Scott Benner Yeah?
Phoebe Yes. Excellent.
Scott Benner You're really brave. I appreciate you sharing this with me twice like this. Okay?
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner Is it hard that that list feels like I read your life to you. Right?
Phoebe Yes. A lot of it is familiar. He, I never had a hand laid on me. Like, my kids would say that it was a little over the top, some of the things done to them, and it sometimes it's hard to tell because you grew up the same generation I did. You know how parenting was when we were kids.
Phoebe So it's very hard to move into this new age of parenting.
Scott Benner It it does. When you grew up in the seventies, it does feel like everybody's just being super nice. You're like, what's why? Because everybody's such a baby for it. Nobody could take a backhand to their head anymore.
Phoebe I know.
Scott Benner Yeah. Yeah. No. And I it is crazy, but listen. I've been pretty you know, I I've tried to be transparent on the podcast a lot.
Scott Benner I've you know, my dad would, like, kick the shit out of me. Like, he and all he was looking for was submission. He just wanted you to stop arguing with him.
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner Or agree with him or whatever. It was pretty common.
Phoebe I say.
Scott Benner Yeah. It was pretty common. And some of that bleeds over into my personality, and then you have to, like, live through another generation and realize I can't do that and then try to stop it. And if you're reasonably sane still, you know, if you're able to hold it together a little bit, sometimes you can make those changes. But often, you know, people struggle with that.
Scott Benner You are a product of your, you know, of how you were raised and and a bit about your wiring. So, you know, that's it. I I don't I don't know another way to put it. You can you you can get a dog and pet it and love it and it'll be lovely or you can kick it and it's not gonna be lovely. And, you know, Phoebe, you got kicked.
Scott Benner So now you've now you're alone and and away from all that. It sounds to me like you're gonna be able to put something really lovely together for yourself, your this part of your life, the second half of your life.
Phoebe I sure hope so.
Finding Calm and Moving Forward
Scott Benner Yeah. I think you're well on your way. It's awesome. These kids will drag you down with their demands and financial needs. They well, they probably wanna eat every day.
Scott Benner Right?
Phoebe Yes. Yes. They wanna eat all the time. There's no there's no break, and that that's the diabetes life. It seems like every day, there's something that has fallen off.
Scott Benner Listen. If you can keep two kids with diabetes alive, then everyone listening can. I don't wanna hear it from any of you. Alright? I don't I I'm too busy.
Scott Benner Yeah? Are you? Listen to this story. My goodness. You people will make a lot of people, I hope, feel better about their situation.
Scott Benner I think a lot of people are about to hit stop and think, gotta stop complaining so much.
Phoebe Yes. Yes. Because that that last night, I had the police at at the house. They're like, you sleep different ends of the house. I went out.
Phoebe I talked to my called my law enforcement friend. I'm talking to my dad outside, and then he's now my ex. He he texts me. So and so's pump just fell off. What do I do?
Phoebe Like, you're kidding me. We are in this family crisis. In the
Scott Benner middle of a crisis, they're like, hey. This insulin pump is a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Phoebe Yeah. Right. Yes. We we're gonna change change out her sight now.
Scott Benner Diabetes does find a way to, like, you know
Phoebe He never sleeps.
Scott Benner Yeah. He creeps up on his though. You know what I've learned, though? It always just feels like the worst time. It's not really the worst time.
Scott Benner It's just there's no good time for someone to tell you my insulin pump just fell off. You you know? So oh my gosh. Wow. You you I I wanna wish you a happy New Year and a great new start for you.
Scott Benner This is I'm I'm excited for you. I mean, honestly, there's nowhere to go but up. So we're
Phoebe Yes. Yeah. It's fine. That is we're on the way.
Scott Benner Your life gets worse.
Phoebe Yeah. And if we get
Scott Benner I'm just gonna assume there's someone out for you. You know what I mean?
Phoebe Well, I it it should get better. It it is a lot less chaotic now.
Scott Benner Good.
Phoebe And, eventually, this story will get done, and at least one of the kids in the story. It's kind of like he's there there's gonna be a type one in the story, and he he's like he said, I can't have what you have. No one would believe it.
Scott Benner You live one of those situations where you hear people say, if I turn this into a movie, everybody would say, come on. That didn't happen to anybody.
Phoebe Yes. It's too ridiculous.
Scott Benner Can I ask, just a a last question? If you don't have an answer for it, it's fine. But do you find it difficult to exist in a calm situation? Does your body want the the chaos, or are you happy to be rid of it?
Phoebe I'm naturally ADHD, so I do not sit still. I can't watch TV or movies. The kids want me to watch movies. It I I will fall asleep, or I just don't want to. I always have to be doing multiple
Scott Benner I mean, like, life stuff. Like, there no one's calling the cops. Nobody's waving a gun around. Do do does your body go boring, or are you, like, okay with all that?
Phoebe No. I I do like calm. Like, if I am alone very little. So when I am alone, I don't want any TV. I don't want any noise.
Phoebe If the kids are all gone, I have the house quiet. I just there there's nothing. So I do crave just quiet and calm, which I get very little of. But I do have a hard I don't sit still. And I can sleep anywhere.
Phoebe Like, we've we've flew here. So I sit in that seat, and I I'm out. I sleep through the takeoff. I can sleep anywhere.
Scott Benner I've come to realize that the fact that I can sleep through a root canal has something to do with how I grew up. I'm like, oh, this is so calm. I'm safe. Good night. Yes.
Scott Benner I've learned that while I I am good at excelling in craziness
Phoebe Mhmm.
Scott Benner I don't prefer it. So, like, when things get calm and quiet like, my family always says to me, like, oh, you get like, they all like, sometimes everybody just leaves. You know what I mean? Like, the girls get up and they're like, we're going shopping. And they'll that they're just gone for, like, nine hour I don't know how you could do that, but they're just gone for nine hours.
Scott Benner And my son will, know, be like, hey. I'm going out to play basketball. People are like, what'd you do while we were going? I'm like, oh, I just sat here. I was like, it was awesome.
Scott Benner Just so quiet and still, like, that's what I want. But I think you get confused because I don't know. I've I've lived through the the, like, domestic version of storming the beach in Normandy. I'm good at it. Mhmm.
Scott Benner And and but it's not what I want.
Phoebe So No. I I like to be busy. Like, I I crochet or in that kind of thing. But there are a lot of times now the older I get like you said, when it's quiet, I can just sit, like, in one chair and not move.
Scott Benner Stare and just and just feel feel the calmness. Right? Like, how lovely it feels.
Phoebe Yes. Yes. Uh-oh. But I I if I am in a listening situation, like, for work or something, I I have I have to do something to focus. You know, if I to be listening to something
Scott Benner Okay.
Phoebe I I I have that helps me.
Scott Benner Good. Hey. Listen. Whatever works. When I first met my wife, this is years ago now, but I I I noticed very quickly, I'm like, she's not comfortable when things are good.
Scott Benner Like, when people are happy and getting along, it puts her on edge. I think it's like she's waiting for the other shoe to drop thing. And it's she's better now, like, much better at it now. But, like, in the very beginning, I was like, oh god. When people are happy, she's like, uh-oh.
Scott Benner This is just the calm before the storm.
Phoebe Yes. I I do like calm. I do struggle with people arguing. I I don't like and I am I I will try to calm
Scott Benner people. You're like, I hate doing this again. Just stop. Okay? Yes.
Scott Benner Yes. Phoebe needs a break.
Phoebe Yes. Phoebe needs a break. Yeah. So just keep calm, and that that's all that's all I'm looking for.
Scott Benner Happy New Year. Merry Christmas. Hold on one second for me. Thank you so much.
Phoebe Sure.
Closing & Sponsors
Scott Benner I'd like to remind you again about the MiniMed seven eighty g automated insulin delivery system, which, of course, anticipates, adjusts, and corrects every five minutes twenty four seven. It works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. The Juice Box community knows the importance of using technology to simplify managing diabetes. To learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes, visit my link, medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner I'd like to thank the blood glucose meter that my daughter carries, the Kontoor Next Gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at kontoornext.com/juicebox. And don't forget, you may be paying more through your insurance right now for the meter you have than you would pay for the Kontoor Next Gen in cash. There are links in the show notes of the audio app you're listening in right now and links at juiceboxpodcast.com to Contour and all of the sponsors.
Scott Benner Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the juice box podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app, like Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple Podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend.
Scott Benner And if you leave a five star review, oh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card?
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Scott Benner It's a chance to relax, connect, and feel understood in a way that is hard to find elsewhere. We're gonna sail out of Miami, and the cruise includes stops in CocoCay, San Juan, Saint Kitts, Nevis aboard the stunning Celebrity Beyond. This ship is chosen for its comfort, accessibility, and exceptional amenities. You're gonna enjoy a welcoming environment surrounded by others who get life with type one diabetes. I'm gonna host diabetes focused conversations and meetups on the days at sea.
Scott Benner There's thoughtfully designed spaces, incredible dining, and modern amenities all throughout the celebrity beyond. Your kids can be supervised and there's teen programs, so everyone gets time to recharge. Not just the the kids going on vacation, but maybe you get the kickback a little bit too. There's gonna be zero judgment, real connections, and a whole lot of sun and fun on Juice Cruise twenty twenty six. Please come with me.
Scott Benner You're going to have a terrific time. You can learn more or set up your deposit at juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise. Get ahold of Suzanne at cruise planners. She will take care of everything. Link's in the show notes.
Scott Benner Link's at juiceboxpodcast.com. Have a podcast? Want it to sound fantastic? Wrongwayrecording.com.
