You're a Bad Diabetic
A spider bite in Texas started it. Twenty-four years, an allergy to most insulins and nine years of bodybuilding later, her endo told her she was a bad diabetic.
Jump to a moment
- She was diagnosed two weeks before turning ten, after a spider bite in Texas took two months to heal — a black widow or a brown recluse, nobody ever knew. Her own line for it: instead of turning into Spider-Man and getting superpowers, she got type 1. The birthday cake they tried to make with Splenda "ended in a tragedy." Her third grade teacher, whose husband had type 1, would spot her clenching the desk and going white, set a snack down beside her and keep lecturing without breaking stride.
- She is allergic to insulin. Humalog produces severe swelling, hives, itchiness and heat; she has also reacted to NovoRapid, Novolin and Lantus. Her read, with two science degrees behind it, is that the insulin autoantibodies that show up as beta cells are destroyed may have primed the response, and repeated exposure makes it worse. She can only inject into her abdomen or glutes — thighs and arms are out entirely, not even once — which is also why she is not on a pump. Apidra and Levemir have both stopped being made in the US, and she was buying Apidra from Canada.
- The bodybuilding started as wanting a six-pack and turned into a hypothesis. She read that people with type 1 still produce trace insulin in the intestine, and made herself the study: if she built enough muscle to pull glucose out of the bloodstream and got lean enough, could she reach one day with no injections and a non-diabetic A1C? She set her own guardrails — no coming off insulin she still needed, no faking the A1C with lows, time in range intact, and no peptides or steroids, because she would not trade one medication for another.
- She met the goal. Nine or ten years took her from 129 pounds to a 180-pound peak bulk at five foot eight, while working full time and finishing degrees in biochemistry and molecular biology, then microbiology. Her daily insulin went from about sixty units to fifteen or twenty, and in her last year of competing she came off long acting entirely. When she told her endocrinologist she was struggling with lows and no longer on basal, he said she needed to take less long acting. She reminded him she wasn't on any. He said, "but you're diabetic, you need to be on long acting," and ended the conversation with: "you're a bad diabetic if you're not taking insulin." There was no DKA at any point.
- Two things she says plainly that are worth repeating. She is not telling anyone to stop their insulin and do a few curls — asked directly, her answer is "absolutely not," and she thinks what she did was specific to her and required treating herself almost robotically. And the gastroparesis she developed at 22, which took her voice completely and felt like being choked whenever she lay down, resolved after a Dexcom G4 prescription steadied her blood sugars. Her A1C had been 7.0 the whole time, which is why nobody could find it: the doctor who finally looked at the chart said her highs were being balanced by extreme lows, she was too young to be in his office, and she should get it fixed and get out.
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Every word of the conversation
Welcome and Sponsors0:08
Welcome back, my friends, to the diabetes show that never ends. Remember this, nothing you hear on the juice box podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Keep your eye out. The bold beginning series is getting a refresh and it'll be rereleased right here in your feed coming very soon.
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Everybody's voice because sometimes I click buttons and mess things up. Can you just say testing for me?
Testing. Testing.
Awesome. You're ready. I'm ready Unless you have any other questions that you'd like to ask prior to people listening to you, just take a deep breath and introduce yourself, and we'll start talking.
Alright. I'm ready whenever you
are. Go.
Meet Ionsei2:43
My name is Ionsei. I'm a type one diabetic for twenty four years now.
Ionsei, how old are you?
I'm 35.
35. So you were diagnosed at around 11?
Actually, two weeks before I turned 10, which at the time, all that meant was no birthday cake, and I was very sad.
They didn't let you have a birthday cake?
I think we tried to make, a sugar free birthday cake out of Splenda, which ended in a tragedy. But
Oh, I imagine.
Very different experience.
Do you remember much about the... That time besides the shitty cake?
A Spider Bite in Texas3:23
Yes. So prior to me going to the hospital, I, everybody likes to talk about their triggers. So mine actually was a spider bite, that took several months to heal, and the doctors were a little bit confused on how to treat me for that. They were talking about surgical Lansing at some point, but it took a very long time to heal. And then when it finally did heal itself, I started having those usual symptoms of having to drink a lot, pee a lot, tired all the time, and losing a lot of weight because, again, glucose toxicity, you don't feel like eating anything, and you're so tired and thirsty, all of the things.
Hey. Quick question. What kind of spider do you know?
I have no idea. I think it happened in my sleep.
And where do you live so I never go there?
So that was in Texas. Okay. And I like to make the joke that instead of turning into Spider Man and getting superpowers, I got type one diabetes.
Yeah. No kidding. What a bummer. Instead of crawling up walls and dating the hot girl in school, you're giving yourself insulin for your food. Wee.
Yeah. What a what a letdown. No kidding. How... What did you say it took?
How many months to recover from the spider bite?
I... If I remember correctly, I took about two months, I think. It just... It would not go down. Yeah.
What are
common spiders in the area that could have been, like like, when they guessed, what did... What were they guessing? Do you have, like, brown recluse spiders there? What do you have?
I think it was between maybe either a black widow or a brown recluse.
Oh.
But I'm not sure. I was the only one in the household that was bitten. So...
And after this happened, your family didn't set the house on fire and you didn't move?
I think they took their chances. Everything turned out well for them. So Not me. So happy for them.
No. I woulda I woulda... I'd have been 1974 for me. Would have been in that John Travolta movie where he lived in the bubble. I would have
been blame you.
I would have put up a clean room. I would have been like, this is where we stay now. Right here, I'm not getting hit by another spider. Ew. Are there snakes there and stuff?
What are you in, like, West Texas?
So I grew up in Texas. I'm actually in, Missouri now.
Oh, okay. What part of Texas did you grow up in?
Right between Dallas and Fort Worth, that DFW area.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. What got you to Missouri?
I actually took up a research position after graduation.
Oh, we'll find out about that, I bet, at some point. So what was it like being diagnosed and growing up with type one?
Oh, that's a good question. I think a big part of me wanted to feel normal. At the time, we didn't really have access to a pump, so we were trying to do the whole... You have to eat snacks in the morning and in the evening. And so in a classroom where it's such an important thing to feel normal, every time you had to eat or every time I had to give a shot, it would just draw attention to myself that I didn't want.
And, thankfully, I had supportive teachers. I think, my third grade teacher at the time, her husband was type one. So I remember she would be teaching, and she would see me struggling to hide a low blood sugar, clenching the desk, turning white, and she would come up and just kind of gently put her hand on my back, pop a snack on my desk, and just not stop the lecture at all. Once I got to my teenage years, it was quite difficult to manage my blood sugars. And I struggled a lot with, you know, that prepuberty time Mhmm.
Weeks in the Four Hundreds7:14
Managing high blood sugars, especially. I would be in the four hundreds for weeks on end. I remember injecting, like, twenty some odd units of fast acting at a time, and my blood sugar would go from, let's say, like, four fifty down to, like, two seventeen and then start to climb back up again.
Can we can we go into that for a second? Sure. How is that possible in a modern day? Did you not understand it? Did your parents not?
Did you have poor direction? Did you... Were you ignoring it purposefully? Like, do you know what was happening?
I'm sorry. Could you clarify?
I just wanna know, like, how how do you... Like, how long ago was this?
For third grade? Some years ago.
Like, twenty maybe?
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
And did you have a no pump, you said. Right?
No pump.
That's correct. Any CGMs?
No CGMs.
What was the testing process like? Like, how often were you testing your blood sugar?
Oh, I would say four times a day, if my parents or doctor didn't get on to me about it.
Gotcha. And what kind... Do you remember what kind of insulin you were using?
I believe it was Humalog. And what was the... Humulin, I think. One where you had to warm it up between your hands.
Okay. And and so you shot the Humulin once a day? Twice?
I think I I think it was before each meal in the beginning.
Okay. So is it possible you... Were you hold on a second. You weren't, like, regular in Miles per hour at any point, were you?
I think so. That sounds familiar.
Yeah. Oh, isn't that interesting that you don't really know? Okay. So it's possible... Let's see.
It's possible that you were shooting, like, once or twice a day of background insulin or... And then were you also shooting for meals?
Yes. And snacks.
Okay. Were you using cloudy? Did they... You're... Yeah.
Oh, you were doing all this. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now I understand.
How long did you how long did you do that before you started using a more modern insulin? Like, what did they move you to? Atlantis after that? This episode is sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. And today, I'm going to tell you about Tandem's newest pumping algorithm, the Tandem Mobi system with Control IQ plus technology.
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Yes. Okay. And I think, actually, because my blood sugars were so out of control, they moved me to an insulin pump, after. Okay. So it wasn't...
Oh, you went right from, like, kinda old insulin to a pump?
Yes.
With, what, Humalog in it? Yes. Okay. What age did that happen?
I wanna say maybe 14, 15.
Okay. And so the time in between diagnosis and the pump were the... Would you characterize those as the most difficult portion or no?
No. I would still say, while I was on the pump, it was difficult.
High blood sugar still?
Yes.
Why do you think?
Occlusions, and Then Allergies12:22
A couple reasons. I think a lot of them are common as well. My... I got a lot of occlusions on the pump. Mhmm.
And I also have developed allergies to several different kinds of insulin. So for example, I can no longer take Humalog.
What does a Humalog allergy look like to you?
What a Humalog Allergy Looks Like12:43
Severe swelling, hives, itchiness, heat, and yes, for that one.
Yeah. You're the worst Spider Man ever.
Well, unfortunately, I've developed, allergies to other insulins as well.
Which ones? Oh,
NovoRapid, Novalin, I think Lantus. And I think, I was taking a long acting for some time that it started to feel systemic before I finally dwindled off of it and switched to another one.
Do they... Does anybody have any reason, that they can offer you why this might be, like, progressing or happening or continuing?
So interesting enough, one of the autoantibodies that type ones develop is an insulin autoantibody. So it could be to the fillers itself instead of the insulin, or it could be an actual allergy to insulin. And that repeated exposure over time is what makes the reaction worse.
What are you using now?
Apidra and Levemir, Both Gone13:46
Right now, I am using... Let's see. I just switched from Apeedra. So...
Why'd you switch from Apeedra?
Because they no longer make it in The United States, and I needed financial access to...
Wait. Wait. That's crazy. My daughter abuses Apeedra. What do you mean?
No way.
Yeah.
I was getting it from Canada for a while. And...
We get it from Walgreens. Hold on a second.
Woah. Woah. Okay.
Who told you this?
Oh, wait. Hang on.
Go ahead. You're fine.
I'm taking Ampedra, and then I think Levemir was
Levemir is not being made anymore. Oh, thank god. You're scared that I'm living hell out
of me. No. I was concerned. I was like, wait a minute. I was concerned.
Yeah.
Let me go fill that script we have downstairs. Okay. Oh, yeah. Levemir. Actually, you know, I've had...
And I just saw her the other day. I've had somebody on, who's been fighting with, government over Levemir. And I'll tell you, I think she might make headway on it.
I really hope so.
Yeah. I'd be... Oh, tell... Can you tell me a little more about why Levemir is important to you?
I think that's a split dose. Right? So you can take one dose in the morning and one at night. And for me, I found that I need less insulin at night. I struggle a lot with lows.
And so right now when I take, my morning dose, that's when I take the long acting. But I... I'm higher in the morning. Mhmm. But I dwain off, like, as the night goes on.
And so to kind of compensate for that, I have to have some kind of fat and simple sugar just so that I stay and even keel at, like, 70 or 80.
So you like being able to take maybe half of your daily insulin in the morning for... With Levemir and then at night, maybe not taking quite as much?
I like the... I feel I have more control when I have that split dose. Yeah.
Sure. Sure. Why do you not use a pump?
I I had a lot of occlusions with the pump, and I found that, a lot of my high blood sugar events were because the insulin was not absorbing. I had to rotate a lot. Even with my short acting now, I can only give it in my, stomach. Otherwise, I start to have that allergic reaction again.
Oh, wow. That's interesting. Which pumps had you tried?
Oh, do you remember Animus pump? Are they still around? The Ping? Yes. Yes.
That's not around anymore. Have you not tried one since then?
I have not, but I've heard great things about several.
Oh, this is interesting. Tell me, you're in your thirties?
Yes.
Okay. You've never... You haven't thought to yourself, like, let me whip on one of these new pumps, throw my Pedra in there, let some algorithm run and see what happens?
So what I'm afraid of happening is another allergic reaction if I keep that insulin in the same place. That's why I have to rotate my injections
constantly. You're telling me that you couldn't inject in your thigh for breakfast and then go back there again at lunch.
Right.
No kidding. Because what happens?
Well, so I can't inject in my thighs or my arms at all, or I start to get itchy and that hive reaction and that heat and...
Yeah. Not even one time.
Right.
So you're you're limited to the the areas that work for you.
Yes.
What other allergies do you have?
I have a few antibiotic allergies, and I believe I'm also allergic to Tylenol.
Tylenol. Oh my goodness. That seems pretty benign. Okay. Alright.
Have you looked into any of those, gosh. The word is escaping me. But, like, the injectables for allergic... For allergies? Like
Those EpiPens?
No. No. No. They make, hold on a second. I know this word, and when it comes to me, I'm gonna be so pissed.
I'm gonna try to get, like, a name of one of them just to pop up here for a second so I can keep the conversation moving. Do you have Hashimoto's?
I do. Yes.
Yeah. No. I knew that. Okay. I didn't know know.
Could a Biologic Help18:10
I meant, like, you're you're coding like you do. Xolair or Xolair or Dupixent, like, there's injectables like biologics was the word I was looking for, by the way. They're for, like, you know, for, like, asthma, chronic hives, nasal polyp. Like, do you have hives ever?
When I take insulin. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they make these injectables... I...
I've... Listen. Let's be clear before I move on. I barely graduated from high school. I have no advanced degree to speak of.
I've taken one college course in my entire life. I did get an a in it, but it was an introductory English course. I am not a doctor. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Have you ever talked to your doctor about an injectable to maybe tamp down the, like, the immune response you're having to all this different stuff?
That's an interesting question. I have not. So is it like an anti cytokine response or an immunosuppressant?
Think they're suppressants. Are these... I just opened a chat window case people are wondering what I was doing only because my clot is doing something. I just wanna be clear for all you AI snobs. Not in the way people mean immunosuppressant.
Allergy, asthma, injectables like Xolair, for example, are usually called called biologics or immunomodulators. They modify specific immune pathways involving an alert... Allergy information or inflammation. Could any of these help with a man made insulin allergy? Chad GPT would like you to know that it's not a doctor.
It also barely made it through high school. Possibly Xolair, but this is... Would be a specialist territory for a true insulin allergy, especially an IgE... What what do they call it, an IgE mediated allergy with hives, swelling, wheezing, or anaphylaxis symptoms. Xolair has been reported to help some people tolerate insulin.
It's not the first step. It's not a casual, let's try this medication. So you have to confirm you actually have an insulin allergy, try a different insulin formulation. Sounds like you've done that. Symptom support, have you...
Do you try antihistamines? Do you take them daily, I imagine?
No. I don't. Has that ever helped? It helps to slow down the reaction, to make it tolerable Mhmm. I guess, but it doesn't completely stop it.
Have you done desensitization therapy, like giving yourself small little bits all, like, all over?
I have not. I found what works for me is doing, giving injections in a more high fat area, like the... My abdomen or my glutes.
Mhmm. Yeah. Those are my spots too. Although, my butt is so thin now I can't even fly. It makes my butt hurt.
Sorry. That's... I just got off a plane. First thing I thought when I got off the plane was the one downside of losing weight is it's hard to sit on this plane.
Oh, I imagine.
Yeah. So you... Okay. I mean, look. I...
Again, I know nothing about anything. I make a podcast. But in 2026, apparently, that makes me something. I don't think so, but the world seems to think so. I would I would ask a doctor about this.
Yeah. That's interesting.
Should. Mean, why not... You don't have to thank me. We need something to talk about. It's okay.
I've also had a few people on the show in the past that have had insulin allergies, so if you want to listen to those episodes, I think if you just go to the website and type in insulin allergy, you'll get maybe three episodes on it. Also, have you tried inhaled? Have you tried the... God. Why can't I think of the name of it all of a sudden?
Afrezza?
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What If I'm Allergic in My Lungs24:02
Yeah. I think I... Because of my history with allergies, it's one thing to have, like, a local allergy. Right? But then what happens if I become allergic to something that's in my lungs?
That's a bit more scary for me to think about.
Oh, no. I I I would have a hard time jumping over that wall too, but I I know somebody who used it to get around insulin allergy.
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah. So let's... Listen to this episode and see if it helps you.
Thank you.
Yep. Okay. Let us move forward. So do you think you've had this allergy your whole life?
Wow. I'm wondering if some
of the high blood sugars are because of that.
Maybe. I think... So allergies usually develop with repeated exposure. And I know with type one diabetes onset, you have, a few cascade of, autoantibodies that occur when your beta cells are being destroyed by your T cells. And one of those are insulin autoantibody one and two.
So it's quite possible that T cells are primed to have that reaction when you take an exogenous insulin source, but it's difficult for me to answer if I've always had that insulin allergy because I didn't know until I was a few years into taking insulin.
Okay. I just wanna say that I looked a little longer while you were... It's possible you could still have to Afrezza if it's the insulin molecule itself that you're allergic to. So Right. Yeah.
Let's not just throw that in at lunchtime. Hey. Do you have, like, mast cell activation or anything else like that going on?
That, I'm not sure of. I don't think I've ever had any formal tests. I've sim... I've gone off of symptomology more than anything.
Yeah. Take a second and talk more about the psychological side of all this. How hard is this?
Diabetes or the... I mean,
diabetes with the the allergy.
Pick a Struggle26:05
Oh, I think I've told my body more than once to pick a struggle between type one and Hashimoto's and the insulin allergy. Mhmm. I think for me, it... Again, it just comes down to removing the emotional response and looking at it as more data, and pushing forward before I, like, completely give up looking at my options. Like you, just kinda looking at ChatGPT or looking online at the latest technology to see if there's a way around it.
Do you do you have a feeling that if you just drift too far in the wrong direction, it'll feel too overwhelming?
The,
Like, you almost have to be like, we're just doing the thing that we're supposed to do, and we don't think about it. We just do it. Because if you think about it too much, does it get overwhelming?
I think... Yes. I think I really like to feel like I'm captain of the ship, so to speak. Mhmm. And so if I completely give into that feeling...
Sometimes, of course, I have to sit with it and feel it and process it and move forward. But I think as long as there's something for me to do, finding that next place for me to move forward brings me a sort of comfort in a way.
I get that. Have you ever yelled, I'm the captain now, while you're by yourself?
I should do that next time. That's a good idea.
I don't know if that movie is getting too old for that reference to be, eligible or not. You got it. Thank you.
Yeah. I appreciate that.
Thank you very much. Good job. Job. Like, a beep pat on my head is like, good job. Way to say something somebody might understand.
That's really... I mean, it's just a lot. You know? Like, it's... And and do you feel like you're being helped by doctors, or do you feel like you're in in this on your own?
I Haven't Relied on a Practitioner27:55
Oh, I think I've taken my diabetes into my own hands a long time ago. I haven't relied on a practitioner for a very long time.
Mhmm.
And so for me, just reading the latest literature, finding out new technologies, and constantly updating my knowledge bank, is how I take control of my diabetes.
Okay. That's a... That's an excellent, excellent plan. So this is not why you wanted to come on the podcast, and I'm thinking at this point, you're starting to think, like, I didn't think this was gonna go like this at all. But but tell people why you wanted to come on and what you wanted to talk about.
Why She Came: Bodybuilding28:35
Sure. So I wanted to talk more about my bodybuilding experience, and how that helped me manage type one diabetes, glucose control, and everything. And then also transition when I was done competing, how I transitioned back and kept a similar mindset to maintain that control.
So do you start with just lifting for health and then you become, like, more interested in it and get more focused, or do you do you... Are you one of those people that stood up one day and said, I'm gonna transform myself into a bodybuilder?
That's a fair question. If I'm being perfectly honest with you, I initially just wanted a six pack because I thought that's amazing, and I'll just try for it. But then I... There was one day that I came across an article, I think, from Harvard that stated, type one still produce trace amounts of insulin in their intestine. And I have a strong scientific background.
And so I kind of made this hypothesis and made myself the center of this little study, so to speak Mhmm. Where, if I could grow my muscle mass, right, because muscle will pull that sugar from the bloodstream and store it as glycogen, and it'll help you have better control, tighter control. And I got my body fat low enough. For example, in a body building competition, you have to lose fat on top of that. Could I potentially have one day where I didn't need any injections and I could keep an a one c.
So I wanted to keep an a one c of a nondiabetic, which is in the low fives, but I had to set obvious parameters for myself. So I couldn't go off of insulin if I still needed it. So I couldn't say, like, oh, my blood sugar is 300, but I wanna do this. So... Yeah.
You're not out of your mind. You're just trying something. I got you. Go ahead. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I had to... I couldn't have lows to get that low a one c because anything... I feel anything below six, you're risking hypoglycemia.
So
I wanted to keep that time and range as well as have that lower a one c.
Good parameters for yourself. He's like, I'm not gonna achieve this a one c through low blood sugars and tricking the a one c test, and I'm not just going off of insulin just because I want to. And Right. What happened?
Centering Carbs Around the Lift31:09
It was... It's a long process. So I started looking into how certain foods would affect blood sugars. So, in the beginning when I was first diagnosed, the only thing I was told was you just need to take insulin for carbohydrates. They didn't talk about glycemic index.
They didn't talk about how protein and fat also affect blood sugar. So there was, a lot of self teaching in that process, especially in the beginning. When you body build, you have, you have to eat a certain number of calories, and those calories are made up of macronutrients, protein, carbohydrate, and fat. So fat is important for sleep, recovery, hormones, regulation, protein, primarily, we focus on muscle building, and carbohydrates, we treat as fuel. So, at the time, I was also getting my degrees in biochemistry and, microbiology.
So I... And I was working as well in a research lab.
Okay. Smarty. Okay.
So for me, those were all important goals, and failure was not an option. I had to succeed. So it it required me to be extremely structured. I found out that if I had insulin resistance in the morning where I had higher blood sugars, maybe I needed to focus more on getting protein in the beginning of the day versus, like, before a workout, that's where I should center my carbs. And they...
What kind of carbohydrates? So, like, for me, I know lower, glycemic index is gonna stay with you longer. And when you're working out for bodybuilding, you're doing two hours plus of lifting, cardio, depending on which phase you're in, bulking, gaining muscle, or cutting, losing fat. And then before bed, you don't want your blood sugar to shoot high up, but you also don't want it to, drop too low. So for me, I worked out in the evenings and dropping low was an issue.
So that's where I learned to have a little bit of fat and maybe just, like, 10, 15 grams a carb before bed to keep me steady.
Okay. Wow. Like... And then does the lifting itself... I always hear people talk about how you have the bolus for lifting.
Is that a thing that you find to be true for you, or do you have other ways of dealing?
I think in the beginning, I did. Because bodybuilding, you're changing your body over time, and so those trends change over time. I think what happens when... With a lot of people when they start working out is that glycogen is released from their muscles and it enters their bloodstream. And so if they've also eaten on top of that, it's going to make your blood sugar shoot up.
Whereas, for me, I don't really have that effect, at least not anymore. I kind of eat more like brown rice, red rice, something that stays... Doesn't have that drastic effect. And so I don't really take insulin or have any insulin on board when I work out.
You don't take insulin or have insulin? And you like... You prefer to work out with no IUB?
Yeah.
And before you eat and bolus?
So I do eat right before I go to the gym.
Do you bolus for that food?
I don't.
No. Okay. What do you... What's your play? Like, do you...
I'm... I imagine you have a way you do it. Like, how much do you eat? What do you eat?
Throughout my day or No.
Prior to the gym.
So right now, I'm really enjoying this. I guess it's like a Fiesta shrimp salad. So it's got, you've got your spring mix and tomatoes, and it's got about 20 grams of protein in the shrimp, and then, three quarters cups of a mix of brown rice and red rice, and then a little bit of fat free cheese. And then my dressing is just Greek yogurt, salsa on top for extra protein.
Can I? I'm telling you, I had a, a shrimp po'boy in, New Orleans the other day that made me think maybe I should move closer to the ocean because, man, was that shrimp good.
That sounds good.
It was just... I don't even know how to put it. Flavorful. Like, the the flesh was crisp the way it's supposed to be. It tasted fantastic.
I I... Everything about it. I just... I was like, I I wasn't loving New Orleans, but I could have just sat there and ate shrimp for a few more days. I can tell you that much.
Really wonderful. Also, I just wanna say I had a great kubana while I was there as well, and, and it made me wanna go to Miami. So I was like
That sounds amazing. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So... Okay.
So you have a little plan. You do you do what you do, but it's not necessarily... Like, you haven't beaten a salad every... You know, this this mix every day for your whole life. You...
You're able to move around. So what is it more about? Is it more about a mix of protein and, like, is that... Like, if you had to break it down into, like, I don't know, fat protein carbs, is there a way you think about it before you lift?
Yeah. So I think before I workout, I try to center the majority of my carb for the day, because I'm gonna be lifting, I know, for two hours and maybe getting that cardio in a little bit. And so I really... It's really hard to treat low blood sugar in the gym. Mhmm.
And then I have that maybe 20 grams of protein and maybe a little bit of fat just to help it stay a little bit longer. And I feel like that kind of keeps me at an even, like, maybe one twenty, 100 before I'm at the end I'm at the end of my workout.
Two hours how many times a week?
Right now, it's three to four. When I was actually training, it was more like five.
What made you wanna come do this? Like, is it a thing you think people don't hear about enough?
I think so. Yeah. I know, when I first started my journey, there weren't a lot of fitness athlete influencers that you see today, And I just would have loved to have that kind of experience showcased before I
saw you. Look up to.
Yeah.
Yeah. How... Is there a way you do that? Do you use social media for that, or is it just... Is this your attempt to do it right now?
I have used... I'm... So I've used social media more in the past. Honestly, I need to get back on there and put myself out there more. But, yeah, that's one way that I do it.
And then also just, attending a few events like type one diabetes beyond, I think. Trying to put myself out there more for advocacy.
Right. I saw a look at you. Oh, that's lovely. So how, how big did you get at some... Like, because it sounds like to me, like, you started, tried to get a six pack, maybe got out of...
Maybe you're like, oh, let me see what else I can do. You're competing at some point. I'd like to know what competing looks like, and then... And and how how is that different, like, trying to hold on to all that mass?
Oh, okay. So that's a good question.
Is it? Awesome.
Bulking, Cutting, and the StairMaster38:08
Usually, you train... So when you add muscle, you usually train about two hours a day for five days a week, And you have more calories than you could possibly want, but it's very structured between protein, carb, and fat. So you don't just get to eat whatever. And then, that goes on for about six to eight months. And then, we usually do that around the holidays.
Right? So you can enjoy Thanksgiving and Christmas. And, when you cut down for a show, it takes another six months. So you start to cut down on carbohydrate and fat, and then finally, protein is the last to get chipped away at. You still have to lift with the same intensity despite your calories going down, and, you have to increase your cardio.
So for me, I had to do the StairMaster for about two hours after lifting two hours when I was peak...
I've never wanted anything that much in my entire life. I, listen. I watched my son play baseball in college and he wanted to play around 02:15 or 02:20 and the amount of food he had to eat to do that was insane.
It is insane.
Yeah. Like, you'd watch him eat and he didn't wanna be eating it.
Mhmm.
Yeah. Isn't that... What... So where's the drive come from for that?
I honestly just wanted to see this out. I wanted to see if I could, so to speak, have this one day of feeling normal. To be honest, I'm not sure. I'm one of those people who isn't sure if I will see a cure in my lifetime.
Mhmm.
And so the question that I started to ask myself is, what are you willing to do or give to reach this goal? And, to me, I could quit at any time. Right? The downside of this was I get a little healthier. I get a little more muscle mass.
The... If I stuck with it and I saw it to the end, I could probably see myself one day meeting my goal.
Okay. And and your goal in your mind when you started was like, I'd love to not use insulin, but you know that's not actually gonna happen. Right?
So I... There was a very, very low probability of that happen. But I wanted to see if that trace amount of insulin that was described in the research paper that I read Yeah. You just... Could actually be used.
No. I... No. I hear what you're saying. Like, it's it's it's...
You're you're looking for a panacea or something like that, but you're like, hey. I guess since we already got on the boat and sailed away, we should just keep going and see what happens. So how close did you get... Like, did you... Were you able to move your insulin needs down?
Oh, absolutely. I I met my goal. Yeah.
Okay. Well, go ahead. Tell tell that part now. Go ahead.
Drying Out for the Stage40:55
Okay. So, when you prepare for a show, there's also a dehydration process that occurs. So you cut down on salt the week of the competition, and, you're cutting down on water as well. And so on top of that, you also take a very hot Epsom salt bath with isopropyl alcohol to help finish drying you out, and you can't drink anything until you're judged. And so for the first, let's say, like, nine years that I competed, I really struggled with high blood sugars on the stage because my insulin wasn't absorbing.
I hadn't really slept the night before.
You dehydrated. Right? The whole thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Like... But, like, really, really toned beef jerky.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha.
Well, so one thing is is when you have that high blood sugar, you start to look deflated. Right? You're not gonna look as sharp as if you're, like, tightly regulated.
Okay.
And so I... During that time, I... Some athletes, the night before, will take just a small amount of alcohol, like a shot before bed to finish that drying process while they sleep. And
I'm gonna stop you for a second. Is this what hap... Is this what I'm... Is this what I'm... When I hear the, the bros on the podcast and they're talking about, like, you know, tuning...
Like, body tuning and stuff like like, this is the... Like, have you, like, shot peptides to see what it would do? Like, how far have you gone through this?
Oh, no. So the other thing, I guess, I should explain is that I was not willing to trade one medication for another. So I didn't take any peptides. No steroid use. I wanted to be natural to see, again, if I could engage that insulin response with that lean.
Okay. I didn't mean to cut... I'm sorry to cut you off then. Okay. So you're...
It's the night before you're down to, like, I've I've already soaked in Epsom salt and isopropyl alcohol. Now I'm gonna take a shot of vodka, go to bed, and get up and do this in the morning. Like... So you've gone the whole way. You've done all of the tuning things that are without, you know, injectables and stuff like that.
And you... Did you did you that night, like, before going to bed, did you think, like, I did it? Did you feel like a sense of accomplishment? Like, you had done the thing you meant to do?
So, just to clarify, I think the first nine years, I didn't drink that alcohol shot. I took salt pills instead, and I struggled with those high blood sugars.
I see.
And then finally, I decided, you know what? I'm at the Natural Olympia. I've come so close. I'm taking trace amount of short acting insulin. I know that alcohol, excuse me, will shut off that glucagon response.
And we kinda know that when you drink alcohol, you have to have 15 to 20 grams of carb. And so I kind of took the risk, and I'm... I didn't drink a lot. I just took a shot. I went to bed, and, I actually wound up needing to eat more the day that I competed because of that.
I was able to sleep. I woke up, and my blood sugar was dropping like crazy.
How do you track all of this while you're doing it? Do you have somebody helping you? Do you keep a diary?
So I had a coach. I had a few coaches during this time. When it came to my final competition at the Natural Olympia in Vegas, it was mostly me trying to navigate everything.
Wow. Seems like a lot. So this Natural Olympia, this is a a thing that if I was into health or fitness or lifting anything, would have heard about. And is it happen all around the country, or is it in one specific place?
It does happen all around the country. For the league that I competed in, it also happens, like, internationally as well.
Okay.
And so when you actually compete, you're competing against people from all around the world, which is amazing.
And the competition is about... It's about body structure. Right? It's around cut and, like, things I don't understand. Like, what are they judging when they're judging you?
It depends on each division that you're in. So, some divisions require a specific look. So you've got that v taper, cap shoulders, maybe not so much in the lower body, whereas other divisions do emphasize that lower body structure, but not that, back and broad shoulders that you'd see.
Mhmm. Well, how how much muscle, like, in weight do you think you put on at, like, your... At your biggest? Like, what did you go... What did you start at, and what did you end at?
One Twenty Nine to One Eighty45:38
So... Well, we can talk weight. I'm not quite sure about muscle mass. Yeah.
No. I'm sure you weren't measuring it. But but, like, you know what mean? Like, yeah, weight, how much did you put on at at at your biggest?
I think peak bulk, I was around a hundred and eighty pounds, and I'm five eight.
And then at... If you weren't lifting at all, like, when... Before you started this, did you weigh... Like, were you happy with your appearance? Like, were...
Did you think you were at a natural weight for your body?
I think I was a little bit below. I was a runner before I started bodybuilding, so I was around one hundred and twenty nine pounds.
So at one twenty nine, you basically put on 50 pounds? Yeah. Wow. How long did that take?
Oh, like, I think nine years, ten years.
Nine years. Mhmm. My gosh. And then during that time, were working. You have a full time job.
You're going to school, like, that stuff.
Mhmm. Yes.
My goodness. What kept you going that whole time? Did you get, like, addicted to it at some point?
Oh, I think it's... Well, you have to love what you do. Mhmm. But there are obviously days where you don't wanna go to the gym Right. Or you wanna go out and maybe, like, have a nice time with your friends, doing what they're doing.
But I think at the end, it came down to my objective of I wanted to feel like I was normal, and I just I just wanted to see if I could do it.
Okay. Let's not tease that part along anymore. Tell me how that all went. Like like... Go ahead.
Like, with insulin needs and how low did they get, and what did you end up, like, accomplishing towards your goal?
Off Long Acting Completely47:12
Oh, sure. So when I got close to competition, I wound up taking trace amounts of short acting. My last year of competing, I went off of long acting completely. And I had an endocrinologist at the time, and just a very frustrating conversation where I... When you're cutting down for a competition, you can only eat so many calories.
So if you have hypoglycemia and you have to treat, you have to take those calories out from somewhere else. Right? Because you take yourself out of that caloric deficit, now you're not losing weight anymore. So you really needed to make sure, like, your blood sugars are on point. Yeah.
And when I came down to, I think, a few weeks of my competition, I was really struggling with low blood sugars. And I remember going in and telling him, listen. I am off of long acting completely. I'm... Feel like I'm taking trace amounts of of, short acting insulin.
And I had everything logged, so I ate the same things at the same time every day just so my body could adjust. Just trying to reduce as much variation as I could to give my system, my body enough time, to figure out what to do.
It's always fascinating.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah. I know.
You're a Bad Diabetic48:35
And he looked at me, and he was like, well, you need to take less insulin. We need to take your long acting down. And I had to remind him, I'm not on long acting right now. And he looked at me, and he said, but you're diabetic. You need to be on long acting.
And I'm like, but I'm struggling with low blood sugars right now. And I think at the end of that conversation, he said, you're a bad diabetic if you're not taking insulin.
Were you experiencing DKA or anything like that? No. No. Do you attribute all this to?
The low blood sugars?
Yeah. Just... You... Going from, like, I'm a type one. I mean, listen.
Before you started lifting, go back to nine years before. How much insulin were you using in a day?
Oh, oh my goodness. You're making me go back into the archives a little bit.
Is what you call is that what you call the back of your brain?
Maybe, sixty units a day.
Okay. And then at some point, you are taking how much?
At my peak when I needed the least amount?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So I wasn't taking any long acting... Maybe, like, twenty units a day or less. Fifteen to twenty, I think.
Wow. That's really... It's not... It's just not... And and your diet wasn't super low carb, or would you call it that?
Toward the end, it was low carb, of course, because I'm cutting for a show. But there was a point in 2020 where I got off of long acting and was taking, again, short acting only, and I was eating, I think, 200 grams of carb a day.
Okay. When when... You're not competing anymore. Is that right?
That's right.
Have you considered a GLP to see if it keeps your your needs down?
So I actually, I proposed this idea to, one of the PIs, principal investigators of a lab. Mhmm. We were going to look into this in type one diabetic dogs. And I I think it was an idea that we wanted to pursue at the time, and I also brought it to my endocrinologist. And they told me that it was only for type twos, and type ones could not use it.
I think it was kind of more cover your butt move because it hadn't been FDA approved at the time.
Yeah. They're doing studies around it now for type ones.
I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Because you're a real... You're you're you're... You... I mean, people joke all the time about their diabetes being a science experiment, but yours really is.
Mhmm. Yeah. Tell me again, what'd you go to college for?
So biochemistry and molecular biology is my first degree, and then microbiology is my second degree.
And and we wanna be clear to people. You're not saying stop taking your insulin and and do a couple of curls. That's not the point of this. Right?
Not Telling Anyone to Stop Insulin51:21
Oh, absolutely not. No.
Okay. Do you think that other people could achieve a lower insulin need if they put in that kind of crazy work? Or is this... Was this specific to you, do you think?
I think it was specific for me. There was a lot of things that I had to cut myself out of, if that makes sense. So, there was not really a lot of eating out, which is enjoyable to do. I think, I think I kinda treated myself almost robotically trying to get to achieve this goal, and I think people might need to take part in
Be human?
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Do
you have, like... I mean, you said you were a runner before this. Did you put this kind of, like, like, focus into running?
No. No? I don't think I understood at the time what running did to blood sugars.
Okay. So what do you do now? Are... Do you lift more, like, just for health, or have you let it go completely? And how do you go from one eighty to, like, what do you weigh today?
I have no idea. I threw out my scale a while ago. How...
Do you think you... Do you think you're back to your one thirty number?
Oh, no. No. So I kind of... I still measure my blood sugar trends. I take a look at how much protein I'm getting a day, and I still treat it like a science, but not an extreme science, if that makes sense.
Wow. Yeah. I have to admit, I didn't know you were gonna say any of this when you came on. So I... I'm finding it interesting to kind of to pick through.
But you you were... You must be dying to use a GLP. The way you think about all this?
I'm interested in the effects. I'm not going to lie.
Yeah. No. I can... I... Yeah.
For sure. What what kind of, focus does it take to avoid, like, life things that you would be interested in had you not made a decision to live like this? Like, is it hard to not go to a restaurant with friends or to a bar on the weekends or or that kind of stuff?
I think the restaurant was a little bit difficult depending on where the restaurant is. Mhmm. So I remember one time we went to, my friends and I went to Nobu, and I was very strict. And I just watched everybody eat and enjoy, and I didn't partake. And that was difficult.
Were you just mad? You sit there mad?
No. No. I mean, it was my decision, so I'm not gonna take it out on somebody else who has... You know, they didn't have nothing to do with it. That's not fair.
Yeah. You have an insanely healthy attitude for a person who has to be oddly focused and crazy to get something done.
Oh, I appreciate that.
No. No. No. Were your parents, like, really great people or something? What's going on?
Why are you so clear headed?
Needing Insulin Meant Being Broken54:14
Oh, so I think, actually, how to put this? I think my parents saw me as the opposite of a healthy person, especially when I was first diagnosed. We're not actually close. So
Why? Why why do you think they saw that?
I think needing insulin to them, equated to being broken, and needing extra care. And so
Oh, you know what? I'm just looking at your photo for the first time. Do have a... Are you... Do you have a Spanish background?
No. No. What's your background?
We are a completely white European background.
Why do you look like you're not? Oh. You look very, what's the word I want? Like, I don't know, but I don't even know. You look a little zesty.
I don't know I don't know what to say
exactly. Okay. So why did their why did their upbringing make you, like, make you... Would you look broken to them or something or sick?
I think sick is more like it. I think I think perhaps maybe taking shots was embarrassing or hard for them to swallow. I think for my mother, it maybe came with a little bit of guilt, because I remember the doctors at the time told her that this disease was possibly passed down from her, and so I think that made it difficult.
Did the diabetes hurt your relationship with your parents? Decision seemed on their end, it seems like. But did... Was that part of it, or do do you think you were not gonna be particularly close to them no matter what?
I think it's probably part of it. There were other factors at play, but I remember... Yeah. They they weren't very kind in the things that they said with diabetes toward me, and that was one of the mental blocks that I had to overcome in the beginning. And I really had a hard time with mental health was thinking...
Her Mother's Voice56:14
Curing, my mother's voice is that no matter how strong you get, you'll never be strong enough to be, what normal people can do. And I
have that's shitty to other people?
I I don't know. I haven't really had much of a relationship with my parents in, like, thirteen years. Do you have brothers and sisters? I do. Yeah.
Were they treating them that way?
No. But, again, type one. Right? There's no family history. There's just kinda...
You get the lucky stick out of the draw, and congratulations.
Oh, you got you got the black sheep treatment?
I did. Yeah.
How about that? Is your mom a per... If I met people, your mom knew, do you think they'd be like, oh, she's lovely? And it's just... Oh, no kidding.
Okay. Was there drinking?
Maybe we can skip past that.
Okay. And I hear drinking in the story, but I get you. Alright. I know what's going on. I got the whole thing figured out now.
We're good. Okay. Although you are ethnic looking, and I don't know how you don't see that. Didn't people not tell you that?
I think it depends on the country that I visit, but not usually.
Really? Do you know what my daughter looks like? Mm-mm. People think she's Asian all the time.
Oh, wow.
Fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They'll...
They come up to her all the time, they ask her about her lineage, she's like, I'm I'm I'm... My dad's got, like, an Italian background. My mom's, like, Irish and English. And and people are always thinking she's... There's a great story.
When my daughter was in high school, they were... They... I don't know what they were doing. I don't know what they were thinking, but they they created these, like, groups of people by their background to make sure people were being well represented or something. I don't know.
It might have been a sign of the times at that point. But, they approached Arden, asked her if she was interested. She said sure. And then weeks into the process, but before the meetings had started, one of the teachers who she had known, like, her whole life, who has met me and my wife, multiple times, stopped her in the hallway one day and said, hey. We're gonna have to move you to another group when this all starts.
And Arden goes, why? And she goes, I I I I I thought you were Asian.
And Oh my goodness.
And Arden goes, you did? And she goes, I'm not. And she said, no. No. We figured that out now.
I was talking to somebody, and they said, why did you put Arden in this group? And I said, well, well, she's Asian. And Arden's like, I'm I'm not. Like, it's not that she would... Please make sure you understand my...
Like, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a very... Like, when some people look at her and just feel like that's the vibe they get from her.
That's hilarious. So much so
fact that she met you already.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I I mean, I I mean, my god. Like, I'm... I look as white as white people look.
You you you know what I mean? Like... And so... And my wife as well. My wife's translucent.
You could see through her. And so it's just really... It's it's fascinating to me. But I've also... The reason I brought it up earlier is because I have interviewed a lot of people actually from Texas who have some sort of a a Spanish background, and they can very frequently have, like, feelings that are more culturally based around diabetes, and that's where I thought you were leading to.
So that's why I took the... That's where I became a bad host when I'm...
Oh, no.
No. In the wrong direction and got it wrong. And I'm sorry to hear about you and your family. That that... Are you...
Do you keep up with your brothers or sisters?
My youngest brother and I kind of touch base from time to time.
Make you sad or you... Have you moved past it?
I think I've healed. There's... It's always gonna be a process, think, for me, but I'm... I think I've healed a lot.
Yeah. You went to therapy? You thought about
Not for that.
Not for that.
There's a lot of there's a lot of journaling. There's a lot of journaling involved.
You're like, believe it or not, Scott, my broken family didn't make the top five when I went to a therapist. Journaling is a great idea.
Yeah.
Really is. For so many little things. I I don't think we talk about it enough around diabetes and health. Actually, just how I felt, what I did today, how much insulin that led to, didn't lead to, etcetera. Like, you could really start to draw, like, lines between ideas when you do that.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
I agree.
Yeah. It'd be a good idea. Alright. Well, we're not done, but, like, I wanna make sure I've covered everything. Because I didn't understand what your story was gonna be when I started, I wanna make sure I gave you enough time.
So have you have you... Do you feel like you've gone through the things you came to talk about? And if not, please tell me more.
I think so. I think we did.
Did we?
Well Okay. I think we can... So unless you wanna go more into, my running background, because during that time, my early twenties, I developed gastroparesis. We can talk about that if you were open to that.
I would love to, but, I mean, I would love to. I would... Honestly, I would like if none of you were hyping any of these troubles, and we could talk about something else. But but I would love to. So how many years do you think you lived in the four hundreds?
I think it was at least two or three years.
Okay. And how soon did you see the gastroparesis?
The Summer She Lost Her Voice1:01:32
In... So it was interesting. I was, I think, 22, 23 at the time, and my voice just stopped. Like, I lost my voice completely.
You lost your voice? Mhmm. Okay. Not, like, metaphorically. Like, you couldn't talk.
Okay. I literally couldn't talk. And every time I laid down, it felt like somebody was choking me. And so I went to the doctor, and it was weird because it was during the summer, and they checked me for strep and all of that came back negative. And I wound up going through years of tests that came back negative.
They couldn't figure it out. And at the time, ADA had recommended an a one c of seven point o, which I had achieved. So they were quite puzzled about what was going on. And they did... They finally did, a stomach biopsy on me, and, of course, that came back clean.
But I remember going into the doctor's office to review those results. And the doctor took one look at my chart, and he said, oh, your time and range is all over the place. Your a one c is fine, but it's because your high highs are being balanced by extreme lows. You're too young to be in my office, get it fixed, and get out. So...
Alright. So I appreciated that approach, to be honest.
Okay. Hey. Gosh. I... Where's my question around this?
Mhmm.
Keep talking. I I jumped in too soon. I apologize.
Okay. Yeah. So I went back and, again, I'm still doing the tried and true prick and stick method. And I'm checking anywhere between 15 to 20 plus times a day. And I'm just not able to get my a one c under seven.
Mhmm. You know, you check your blood sugar. One time, it's 70. Okay. Everything's fine.
And then thirty minutes or an hour later, it would be, like, 200. And so it almost makes you neurotic going back and forth. Yeah. And at the time, the Dexcom g four was there. And I remember I found out about it, and I went to my doctor, and they actually gave me a prescription for that.
And the effect that that had on my control was just night and day. I was finally able to have more even keel to my blood sugars.
And
I got off the proton pump inhibitors, and, everything kind of sort of returned to normal state after that.
Yes. So the gastroparesis was specific to the the high and fluctuating blood sugars.
What the Swings Did to Her Nerves1:04:02
Yeah. So, it just puts so much... The the high blood sugars and low blood sugars just... It's too chaotic. Right?
It puts so much pressure on your nerves.
Yeah.
So you have, two sphincters to your stomach. One empties into the small intestine. The other one keeps acid from leaving your stomach and going up into the esophagus. Mhmm. And so my...
The top one for me was starting to fail. The nerves were starting to fail. And so the acid was coming up and tearing into my esophagus and everything, and that's why I'd lost my voice and was having a hard time breathing.
Did you end up with Barrett's? No. No. Good for you. I think I might have it.
Oh, no.
Yeah. Well, what are you gonna do? Something's gotta kill me. Oh, yeah. Live forever?
That took a turn. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
No. I actually am scheduled to go back and have another look, but the way they look is by, you know, sticking a camera up your ass. So I'm not in a not in a huge hurry to
go. Fun time. Yeah.
Is a thing I have on my schedule, to to do this this year. But but, nevertheless, I I I had, like, terrible, like, reflux, and I don't have it anymore. So I had what they considered to be, like, the beginnings of paying attention to the idea of Barrett's, and I'm interested to go back to see if what I did maybe, maybe help the situation. Because then it's possible that if it hasn't progressed at all, they can just go in there and kinda, like, literally, like, just pop out the cells. Yeah.
And... Yeah. So, anyway, I don't know a ton about it yet, but I'm I'm getting ready to learn more about it very soon. The time the time is now. But I did that with GLP.
Like, that's how that's how I... Like, you know, some people say they go on GLPs and they get reflux. It made mine go away.
Oh, nice.
Yeah. Especially when I lost weight and everything. So Congratulations. Thank you. I I I really appreciate that.
Okay. I I had a question. I just... Man, it really fell out of my head. It's pissing me off now.
Instead of letting go of it and moving forward, I'm, like, sitting here like an idiot, like, trying to figure out what it was, which is not the way this is gonna work. So, today, you are back to more insulin, or you lift how much? You're not lifting five days a week anymore. Right?
No. So I've since moved on after graduation. I I try to work out about three to four times a week. Again, I I still keep sort of the same meal prepping. Maybe I'm a little bit more lenient with it, but still trying to hit macronutrient balance.
Jumping in here to remind you that Juice Cruise '20 twenty '7 is going out of Orlando, going out of... Sorry. Was, like, tripping over my own words. They're out of... I'm sorry.
I was gonna... I'm trying to be quick and get you back to the rest of the show. That's not going well. Juice Cruise twenty twenty seven out of Orlando, July 2027. Go to juice box podcast dot com slash juice cruise to get started today.
Put your deposit down. Get your spots all secured so we can see you next year for juice cruise.
Which Toe Would Go First1:07:09
When I grew up, you know, they would say by the time you're 30, you're gonna lose... You're gonna have an amputation. Your eyesight is going to go. Your kidneys will fail. And so, I took dance when I was a kid, and I remember, I took ballet.
So I remember taking off my shoes in the car and scrunching my feet under the floor heater and just imagining which toe am I going to lose by the time I'm 30.
Oh my god. How old were you when you were doing that?
I think I was around 12 years old thinking about that already.
Oh my god.
So I'm really happy, like, right now none of that has actually happened.
And I... How would you characterize your health right now aside from the the the allergy to the insulin? Like, how would you talk about your health if somebody... If I said to you, how are you doing?
I think I'm healthier than most. I still think I hold this idea of trying to have my a one c and time and range close to a nondiabetic. For me, I feel the guidelines for diabetes care just fluctuate. And, the people that you don't see those complications in are more like people without diabetes. Right?
Because they have... Your body is used to functioning Sure. In that that certain range, very specific range.
Well, I think that, you know, this all started, like, you know, when ADA started talking about it a little differently, you know, and they try to... They start moving down that a one c target as technology gets better because it really is what it is. It's direction for doctors based on what the population can hopefully achieve. And, you know, at one point, right, the the target a one c was eight. At seven, I...
It might still be seven, to be perfectly honest with you. I'm not even sure anymore. But when they started talking more about time and range, right, that 70 to one eighty thing, That's more about stability. And that's... That ends up...
I mean, your story highlights that, but the stability is really important. Like, I'd much rather you be a 100... Like, blood sugar be one fifty all the time than it be two fifty and then 40. And, you know, back and forth, I don't want your blood sugar to be one fifty all the time. But, like, if if we had to pick between one...
And now as the technology gets better and these pumps are are... You know, these algorithms are coming into play and everything, Now people are talking about time and tight range, an even an even, like, smaller window where you kinda don't leave that window very often. But people are achieving that through more modern insulins, through CGMs, and then sometimes by algorithms. And because of this allergy, like, it it it strikes me that it's sad that you might not get to to try them because I think you'd really be fascinated by them.
Stem Cells, and a PhD1:09:45
Oh, yeah. I agree. Don't be too sad, though, because I know, stem cell therapy is actually becoming a thing and as well as gene therapy for a lot of diabetics. So maybe the insulin or biologic similars don't work for me, but maybe there's, like, an actual cure on the horizon where I can be normal.
You're one of those people who's gonna get islet cells stuff into their liver, aren't you?
Well, so that's what I want to do. Mhmm. I'm aspiring toward a PhD program where I can work with both gene therapy and stem cell therapy at the same time, sort of an interdisciplinary program.
Don't forget when doctor Bruce Banner experimented on himself, he turned to the Hulk. Okay? So That's true.
We didn't have diabetes.
I've never read one comic book where yourself has gone well. I just want to I just want you to be careful. Have you looked at that Eladon trial in in Chicago?
It's interesting. Yeah.
Yeah. As well as for time. You seem like the exact kind of person who would wanna do that.
Yeah. I think I think we still have a ways to go. I know their immunosuppressants aren't as harsh as Vertex currently, but I think I still wanna see those long term studies.
Well, you ain't gonna be here forever. You're gonna have to jump in at some point.
Well, sure. But what happens if those cells turn into cancer cells down the line or
something happens? Told you something's gotta kill you. What does it matter? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Like... Because, because I I have... I haven't said this out loud because... And this is important to note.
I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I did interview the doctor who runs that... Wachowski who runs that trial in in Chicago, and they're using that tego Probart, that suppressant, and it doesn't seem to be having side effects for people. I'm... I I I I found myself wondering the whole time you're talking, if you took that, would you be able to take insulin without having a reaction to it, or does does that not affect the same thing? Or are there other things out there that might tamp down your response to the insulin?
Because if it did, then you could go on an algorithm, and then you wouldn't have to... You know you know what I mean? Like, there's... But I don't know. It seems like a lot.
It sounds like you work really hard and you're smart and you're doing all kinds of crazy stuff at work and everything. And, like, what... Like, where's the line? Right? Like like, I...
Let me ask that as a question. Right? How much is too much to... For effort? Do you know what I mean?
Like, at what point do you just say, like, this is it. This is how my life is. I'm okay with this.
I think when it starts to compromise quality of life. Right? And that's a very personal question. So if you're miserable trying to pursue a goal, if it's no longer worth it to you, I think that's when it should end. But for me, I think I still have that strong science background.
Right? I think I'm always gonna have this insatiable curiosity. So I'm not sure. Maybe when I'm on my deathbed, I'll I'll reconcile this is how my life was, and I'm really happy I lived it the way that I did.
I'm very glad we met. You're a bright, thoughtful person. I'm starting to think that your mom didn't like you because you were smarter than her. There any chance that is there any chance that might be true?
I don't know.
I be once for maybe and twice for definitely not.
Oh, no. You're gonna stir family pot again.
No. No. No. No. No.
I... Listen. I... You see this sometimes. Like, sometimes sometimes the kids just have bigger thoughts and the parents can kinda keep up with, and it's it's off putting.
Like, you don't know what to do about it, and then it turns into a, like, oh, just shut up kinda thing. I don't know. I mean, I've seen it before is all I'm saying. And you... You've not answered one question in a not...
Like, even just now when I asked about how much is too much, you said, well, that is a very personal thing.
Mhmm.
That's that's... You're not just thinking about the question I asked you. You're thinking about the question writ large over everybody, and there's Mhmm. There's a... There's an intelligence around that being the way your brain parse that.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Well, thank you.
You know this about yourself. Right? Come on. It's okay. You can say it.
Maybe I'll let myself believe it one day.
Oh, come on. Don't make me sad right before we're done.
Bruce Banner1:14:05
Don't be sad. One day, you'll be able to say you had Bruce Banner on your podcast, and that should make you very happy.
I want this lit up on the therapist list. That's all I'm saying. Okay? You deserve you deserve to believe in yourself to that level. I I really believe.
I've known you for an hour and nine minutes, but I I think that, like, as I'm talking to you. If you don't feel that way about yourself, that would be a shame.
Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate that.
You're very welcome. And I really appreciate you doing this with me. And I have to say, you're gonna be one of those people I tell, when we hang up here before we say goodbye, but we're not being recorded anymore. I'm gonna say to you, in a couple of years, if you wanna come back, and you have more to talk about, you should reach out.
So Thank you.
I love that. This was this was this was fun. I don't know that I did as good a job as you did in this one.
Oh, well, I think you asked intelligent questions. I really appreciate how you guided this story. It's very... I think it's a little nerve wracking coming on and talking about yourself, and I appreciate the way that you make, your guests feel at ease and just kinda open up and have a good time. I enjoyed this.
It's all part of the plan. Okay? I know... Let's not tell the plan to everybody. But, what I like...
What I really enjoy is that you are not a person who finds themselves being interviewed all the time, that there was no preplanning for this conversation or prep. So you came in. You were likely nervous. You had to find a a a way to, like, relax, and then I didn't know the first thing about your story. And we...
It it came out the way. It came out through my interest, through your desire. Like, it's... I think this is the best way to do it. If I was if I was in charge of making podcasts, this is how they would all work.
So... But I really do appreciate. You were really terrific at this, so thank you again.
Thank you.
Yep. Hold on one second for me. It seems that the podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. Learn more about Tandem's newest automated insulin delivery system, Tandem Mobi with Control IQ plus technology at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at juiceboxpodcast.com to Tandem and US Med, who also sponsored this episode of the juice box podcast.
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