#1958 Body Fullness
Body Fullness
Heather has had type 1 for twenty-nine years and was in the first human trials for Dexcom. Now she teaches mindfulness to people with diabetes — and has some language for what Scott has been doing all along.
Jump to a moment
- Twenty-nine years, starting before the internet. Heather was diagnosed in March 1997 at 27, teaching fifth grade, and refused to be admitted because she had dinner plans. She was sent home on a 70/30 mix. She's now in her thirtieth year with type 1 and describes a whole era of management that Scott — whose daughter was diagnosed in 2006 — never lived through.
- She was in the first human studies for Dexcom. Around 2000, through connections in San Diego, she got early access to continuous monitoring before it existed as a product. Her framing of what came before is worth hearing: testing twelve to fourteen times a day sounds obsessive now, but it was only ever a handful of snapshots, and you were still essentially clueless about what was actually happening.
- The advice that made her furious. An internist told her she was too stressed about it, that this was forever, and that she needed to chill out and test less. Scott's response is that it's among the worst things you can say — and he offers his own: being told Arden's high A1c was fine because bad outcomes take thirty years, when she was two years old.
- She gave Scott language for something he'd already built. When he describes his new self-guided program — built from the Pro Tip series and Small Sips, deliberately free, no upsell — Heather names it immediately as an applied mindfulness program. Her definition of mindfulness is a deep listening practice: awareness of thoughts, sensations, emotions. Her term for the diabetes version is body fullness — knowing what a low actually feels like rather than only what the data says.
- She teaches this, mostly for free. Heather is a former therapist who let her license lapse and now leads guided practice sessions through a type 1 diabetes sangha — roughly five free sessions a week, community gatherings, and an option to simply show up in silence alongside other people with diabetes. There's a multi-day retreat in Monroe, New York in October. Scott notes on air that he has no financial connection to any of it.
- Diabetes Sangha — Heather's community — free guided mindfulness practices for people with type 1, plus the October retreat in Monroe, New York.
- Diabetes Pro Tip series — Episodes 1000-1025 — the foundation Scott's self-guided program is built from.
- Small Sips series — The shorter companion episodes paired with the Pro Tips in the guided program.
- Mental wellness series with Erika Forsyth — The conversations Scott references — worry as a waste of imagination, and more.
Every word of the conversation
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Hi, Scott. I'm Heather Nielsen.
Heather? I'm Scott as we've gone over. How are you?
Mhmm. I'm doing well. I'm really well today. How are you?
Awesome. Well, I told you my wife tried to get me to cancel this recording so I could scratch her legs for her. So she said, can can
you Are you gonna be able to scratch her legs after our conversation?
I'm sure I will use the time that I was planning on eating my breakfast to do something like that.
Your day is that full.
My day is always like this. Also, are people around me who seem to think I work for them. So I mean, not that I don't wanna scratch my wife's like, you're don't misunderstand. But I've already been woken up this morning by my daughter who said, can you rub my ankles before I get in the shower? I was like, sure.
So I'm ringing her. And she's, like, 22. I'm rubbing her ankles. And I and she goes, oh, this feels so good. And I said, I wouldn't know.
No one's ever rubbed my ankles in the morning before. Oh my gosh.
Must be particularly good at rubbing the lower extremities of your loved ones.
I'm, I'm very, aggressive with it. I think the people like the aggressive.
Okay.
So, anyway, why are you here? What do you what do you do? Are you do you have diabetes? Do you like, tell me a little bit about yourself.
Sure. Yeah. I do. I have type one diabetes. Diagnosed 03/07/1997 when I was 27 years old.
Diagnosed at twenty-seven, in 19973:43
So I think seven is my unlucky number. I was teaching fifth grade at the time. Mhmm. And, you know, like like all of us, you know, I have my my story. I don't know if you wanna go into that diagnosis story at all.
So you were diagnosed twenty nine years ago?
That's right. I'm in my thirtieth year.
Look at you. I, by the way, only know that because you were diagnosed a year after I was married, and my thirtieth anniversary is coming up in a couple of days.
Alright. Good job.
And I just said to my wife, how is it possible that yeah. Good job. Actually, that'd be nice. I think more people should say that to me. Probably her probably her more than me.
But, I I just got done telling her. I was like, I had this whole thing planned, and now she's recuperating from something, and we can't do it. And I'm I'm now well, listen. That's all. But now I'm left with, like, I don't have anything to give her.
Aw. Well figure something out.
Thirty years, can you just celebrate it when she's recovered?
Yeah. We'll figure it out. It's not I don't think the date's Yeah. As big of a deal. I might just clean the bedroom for her.
I think she'd find out. She might just be like, oh, this is awesome. Thank you. So wait. So you're diagnosed twenty nine years ago.
That Yeah. That's what? Yeah. Nice. You would you start with, like, Humalog and or were you regular No.
Seventy-thirty, and the old days5:02
It wasn't even then. So it was so I was 27 years old. Right? And, you know, pretty pretty healthy. So and this was really pre Internet.
So I remember having, you know, all the symptoms, blah blah blah, super significant symptoms, but just chalked it off to stress. Finally, went to the doctor, when somebody at work told me that I looked like and I really needed to, you know, get it checked out. So, diagnosed and did not I refused to go into the hospital because I had dinner plans that night, and so they sent me home with, what was the combination? See, I don't even remember. It was, like, $70.30, whatever that was.
Okay. Alright. So you were you were doing, like like, the mixed you were mixing it or no? There's so many so by the way, there's there's a lot of interesting stuff here. A, that's never a world I was involved in.
And b, I've heard people talk about it so colloquially. Right? Like, people call it so many different things. Like, oh, I
was Oh my gosh.
I would I'd use regular in Miles hour. I was using, I don't know, pig and cow. I was doing this, like,
It seems like the old days. It was the old days.
Somebody else some people talk about it as, like, cloudy and reg like, they there's all kinds of different and I was not like, so I don't really know. I just, let people talk. But I think what's more interesting is that you don't remember.
Yeah. I don't remember. Unless you're saying all these things, I'm like, oh my god. Yeah. M p maybe it was m p h, the cloudy, the regular.
Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't really remember. I mean, it's it's hard to track on or, you know, there was it was it's not necessary.
You know? I mean, I'm I'm 56, so my brain's full of stuff so I don't really need to hold onto that in there anywhere, but it was it was something. And then I was, you know, misdiagnosed as type two even though my A1C was 19.5 and I had all the classic symptoms and I'm white and, you know, all the stuff. So and no nothing in my family. So I was really fortunate in that I was school where I was a teacher, the one of the women who was I don't even remember what she did there, but her she was married to Bob Henry who at the time was, I don't know, with this amazing endocrinologist, like head of something at the ADA, and she talked to Bob about me and she's like, I think there's something wrong with Heather's diagnosis and can you help her?
And he said he popped off and said, yeah, she needs to get an islet cell antibody test and a GAD antibody test. And I asked my doctor to do those and then sure enough it was accurately diagnosed because I was put on Resulin, which was taken off the market later, but at the time, it was the hottest new pill for type two diabetes. So, yeah, it was a like a lot of people, fewer now than, you know, back back in the days.
Oh, I don't I don't know about that, Heather. I feel like I hear somebody say they were misdiagnosed every five minutes. I mean Do
you really?
Yeah. Maybe it's just the world I live in, but Yeah. People are constantly telling me I was misdiagnosed as a type two. And sometimes and maybe not just sometimes, but often, they're LADA. So their their progression's so slow that they they can live sometimes for years believing they're type two.
Yeah. It's really something.
You know? It's really it's really, really sad. So, yeah, I mean, I've definitely because of what I've learned and now I do work in the medical field, have for quite a while, but, you know, we we've we've really been, helpful for people to get an accurate and early diagnosis because I have a very low threshold for, you know, that that thing. But, yeah. Anyway, I was I honey honeymooned for, pretty much close to a year.
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So I did did the shots for a while, whatever they were, cloudy and clear and whatever. And then, and then I was able to, very intensely a theme I've noticed, in your podcast is that we're all anxious, like you said. Yeah. And so through a lot of lifestyle and anxiety driven management, you know, super low carb eating before that was really talked about, you know, just exercising obsessively and just really trying to avoid the inevitable. And and then, yeah, after almost a year, it was it was quite clear that, it was all my efforts were not working.
And so, yeah, never forget that first shot that was like, okay. This is now the rest of my life.
Yeah. Well, was that was that I don't know if you can take yourself back that far, but was that relieving to have an actual honest answer, or did you just feel the pressure of the injections and the new diagnosis?
Great question. I mean, I think I've I think it was both. I remember being, honestly, being the most, surprised that when I asked the endocrinologist, like, what I never really asked, like, why me? It's just not really my personality. But I I was like, well, why why this?
Like, why did physiologically, why did this happen? And he said to me, we don't know and it doesn't matter. You just need to learn to live with it. And I thought that was incredibly unsatisfying. But, you know and I was like, well, I was very skeptical too.
Was like, come on. I mean, we can, like, go to the moon and transplant hearts and stuff. Like, why can't you figure this out? But, I mean, I think we are figuring that out a little bit more clearly now.
Well, now that you understand better the action around it, does it make you feel any differently? Like, was he right?
I like to I mean, I think a lot of people like to know. You know, they they like to understand it. Would I have done anything differently, you know, going back? I mean, no. Of course not.
But it yeah. I like to I like to kinda know.
Well, well, no. Listen. I first of all, I'm with you. And I also just had this conversation yesterday with somebody else about, like, you know, they asked their doctor something. Their doctor was, like, beyond dismissive.
Just like, well, that's not no. I don't know why you're worried about that. Shouldn't be worried about that. And and just like that and then walked away from her. And and the same thing for you.
Like, you listen. I think we're gonna find as we're talking, Heather, that you're a you're probably like a first class hippie. I'm I'm I'm assuming we're gonna pick through and learn. And and you think that that's because you told me about meditation. And I'm gonna tell you it's because when I asked you something earlier, you thanked me for it.
And it's it was, like, a very therapy or enlightened way to answer me.
And How do you define hippie then?
What's hippie? We'll find out. I I'm not sure. I don't have a definition for it. I just feel like we're gonna learn that, like, you know, you you're outside without your shoes on sometimes.
I feel like that's what we're gonna learn.
Oh, as much as possible, Scott. So
but, like, I forget what it was even. I don't even know if we were recording. Like, oh oh, it wasn't. We weren't recording. I said before we get started, can I just ask you a couple?
I can I fill you in with some stuff? Like, you know, and you wrote and you said, I appreciate that or thank you for that. Or it was something about the way you said it that I thought this lady's been to therapy, and and she and she's in she sees the value in us communicating. And that that's really what I got out of it. And then when you said, hey.
The doctor said this to me, and it was unsatisfying. I thought, yes. Because that did not hit the part of her that wants to be communicating. Am I right about any of this?
You're you I've noticed this in listening to your other podcast. You're incredibly insightful. Yes. Wow. And not only have I been to therapy, but I have been a therapist.
Oh, no. I could tell. You have language around it and everything. Yay. I
have so much language. I But I'm not here with that. I'm not here in that role at all, and I actually let my license lapse.
I don't do that anymore.
That's okay. No. I could tell I could tell at some point that was part of your life. So Yeah. Okay.
So you you start off as a type one about a year into it. I mean, it's been twenty eight years now. Yeah. But you're an adult at that point. Are you married?
Are you single? Are you in grad school? Like, I mean, you're teaching, but you you don't teach anymore. Right? So it sounds like you've shifted a lot over the years.
Shifted a lot. So I was in a difficult relationship which ended after the diabetes diagnosis because hippie that I am, I was like, oh, yeah. This was this was stress induced. They don't have another answer, so I gotta get out of this relationship and change my life.
So You blamed the you blamed the boy? You're like, I knew I knew you were bad for me.
Definitely not his fault. He was
a good human. He was
a good human. We were a bad we were a bad match.
So yeah. And then I do you I'm sure you're familiar with the group in San Diego, TCOID, Taking Control of Your Diabetes.
Yeah. More of that. Yep.
Yeah. Yeah. So they were, you know, they were a huge part of my, I would say, if this doesn't sound like the wrong word, like, my my success in in, engaging with my own diabetes in a pretty skillful way from early on, you know, because Steve Edelman's message was don't let your diabetes stop you from doing anything. And, he was a great example of that is still, you know, a great example of that. Thirty years later, TCID is still rocking and rolling.
And, and then I also met Bill Polonsky and had therapy from Bill Polonsky for my diabetes burnout pretty early in. And so, you know, the combination of those two and then my amazing CDE that I had, whatever they're called now, but at the time they were CDs, the nurse who, like you, like, in three minutes kinda had had me, pretty well assessed, and she gave me examples of people that she had worked with who were living really well, like, you know, a a triathlete who did so and so with type one and, like, a newscaster. Not that I was a newscaster, but I I had done triathlons. Anyways, like, she she nailed me and she gave me these really hopeful examples. So I think, you know, the trio of them really made up for the other subpar medical care that I received and and helped me to really believe that this was not a horrible thing, you know, that I could have maybe even a better life, you know.
And I think it also snapped me too, like it like it does for a lot of people, like, oh, oh, there's this mortality thing. Mhmm.
Gay, you feel the finite, nature of being alive and
Yeah. Which, I mean, both 27 year olds are not really feeling that. You know? Or, I mean, I don't know. Maybe maybe they're I was I wasn't having those conversation.
I wasn't as much of a hippie back then, Scott.
Yeah. Well, if you were teaching if you
were teaching fifth grade, you were probably just trying to stay alive, I would imagine.
I was. Oh my god. I I did love that job, though.
So, anyway, I moved to Budapest, Hungary because Steve Edelman said don't let your diabetes stop you from doing anything, and I'd always wanted to live, in Europe and or abroad somewhere abroad somewhere. And I wanted to do it in high school, but, you know, didn't really wanna leave my friends. And then we do it in college, and then my dad was like, no. I'm not gonna pay for that. And I was like, okay.
So, you know, blah blah blah. So
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So I'm 27, 28 now, have diabetes, and I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. And so I went to a a teaching abroad fair, teach overseas fair, and, you know, applied to one of the fair, interviewed. And then the best the best job package was in a country that I'd barely ever heard of. And so I was like, alright. We're going.
Where where did you go?
Budapest, Hungary.
Oh my god. Well, do you how how is it to land somewhere with the need for medication and be I I would imagine, you know, not a native speaker and and everything else?
A year abroad, and coming home confident21:03
Definitely not. Very difficult.
Did you pick any up while you were there?
Yes. I speak a tiny bit of Hungarian. I studied I studied weekly. Yeah.
Well, that's amazing. But but are you not fearful of, like, what how do I get my insulin? How do I get my supplies? What happens if I have a problem?
I asked a lot of questions before I went over there. You know, like, how does the does the medical system work, you know, the pharmacies, you know, all of that. So I think honestly, I've I mean, I haven't really thought about that. Nobody's asking that question. Now I would honestly be probably much more fearful, but there's maybe the youth, the naivete, the newness into diabetes, the kind of like confidence like, I got this.
You know, Steve Edelman says don't let us stop you from doing anything, you know. I think so. And I think at the time there was a group that I had connected with, again, of pre maybe we had emailed then. I don't remember. This was 1998 that I moved?
1999? Don't really remember. Anyhow, I I felt confident enough that I would be able to I mean, like, people have diabetes everywhere in the world. People in Hungary have diabetes, so, you know, they have doctors, they know how to do it. But it was actually I was signed a two year contract and I did only last one year because it was a lot harder.
I mean, San Diego, California medical care, lifestyle, weather, you know, access to exercise, fresh vegetables, all that. It was I had no idea how, what it was gonna be like in Budapest, and it was really hard.
Oh, it's difficult.
I remember, you know, I did go see an endocrinologist, and it was in hospital where you go to the endocrinologist and made me really grateful for American. We have a lot of problems with our health care system, but at least, you know, you don't have broken windows and people smoking in the hallways in our hospitals. And I went there and she told me I had to, like, take all my clothes off, and I'm like, I'm here for a diabetes visit. Like, what do
you want us to take my clothes off thing? Are we gonna talk about my blood sugars? And I had to lay on a table, and they did an EKG on me. And, she told me
that I needed to lose 10 pounds.
Oh, what a lovely moment.
It was I was like, this is so weird.
Did you say, hey. Listen. Bear naked flat on a metal table is not my best angle. Like, I think you're just not assessing me correctly. Can I stand up and maybe bend a knee?
I think if I could just shift my weight onto my hip, you would feel differently about this.
Let me show you my best features. Oh my gosh. So it was it was different. You know? It was definitely different.
And, you know,
this was before, of course, CGMs and, you know, all the stuff. So I was I was able to get this test strips. And but I look back, and I'm like, wow. That was kinda crazy that I did that. But, I mean, people do much, much crazier and braver things with type one.
So Yeah. But I Yeah.
So I bet you no matter how it ended up or the experiences you had, it probably left you feeling more confident when it was over.
So much more confident.
Yeah. I would think so. And so you so you scampered right out of there. You're like,
like I did.
I'm going home.
Travel a lot when I was there, and that was ultimately my goal, which sounds whatever. Like, I I wanted to, yeah, make a living, but when you're on a teacher salary and you're single, you know, I couldn't travel couldn't really travel Europe. So I taught, and then I just traveled on the weekends and the school breaks. So I got to see a lot and had an amazing yeah. It was amazing enriching year.
Life changing.
Testing fourteen times a day25:09
Hey. During those first year let's say the first, I don't know, ten years of your of your type one because I think that's an interesting time, '97 to 2007. What what are your outcomes like? Like, are you measuring just a one c's? Are you, like, are you testing with any frequency?
Like, how does like, how do you manage day to day through that time?
Yeah. Definitely testing very frequently. So, you know, I came back to San Diego, got you know, had a different job and got established with a an internist. And, you know, he told me with his wisdom because I was testing probably, like, 12 to 14 times a day Mhmm. Which, you know, of course, now we know when we have, like, instant constant monitoring.
That's nothing. That's nothing.
No. I know. Yeah.
Nothing. It it's just a bunch of little snapshots. You're clueless of what's really going on. But it was you know, what he said to me, wisely, but I didn't accept it very well, was that he goes, you know, Heather, you're like, you're you're really too stressed out about this, and you gotta chill out. This is, like, forever.
“You need to chill out”26:15
You know, you don't you really don't need to be testing that much and just, like, chill out a little bit. I was furious.
Oh, I think that's the worst advice, by the way. I I when my daughter was diagnosed 2,006, so no, you know, no meters. I mean, just a meter. Excuse me. No CGM.
Right? Like, we had the nobody even ever offered us a pen. Like, it was always just
like Oh, wow.
Yeah. No. I literally, no one ever said, would you like an insulin pen? And so I would test her 12 I mean, your numbers right there are twelve, fourteen times a day. It was like when you get up in the morning before you eat, an hour after you eat, like, you know, after corrections, like, that kind of thing when she didn't look right, etcetera.
Yeah. Of course.
And yeah. But to your point, that's barely enough information. And then some and then someone says to you, hey. Why you, like, why you trying so hard? Like, you you don't make yourself crazy.
And I I always imagine, like, why not, like, finish that sentence? What does that mean? Like, stop testing and then just let randomness take its course on my body and my health? Like, what a weird thing to say to somebody. It's like So
especially when it's your kids, Scott. I mean, I just so I've gotta be a million times more crazy making than when it's yourself.
One of the most disturbing things anyone ever said to me when I questioned Arden's a one c back when it was like eight. And I said, you know, is this not problematic? And they said, well, no. Like, diabetes like, really, like, bad diabetes outcomes don't happen for, like, thirty years. And I was like, but she's two.
And, like yeah. I'm like I'm like, are you sitting here trying to comfort me by telling my my daughter's gonna have complications when she's 32? So don't but don't worry about it. And I was like, what do what an Yeah. I don't know.
Like, tone deaf thing to say or Yeah. You know, way to make me feel like you don't understand the thing you're here telling me about. You it's very interesting. So, anyway, I'm sorry.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No. No.
Sorry. I was really appreciate that because it's very oh, there I go again. It's my hippie language.
Record I record with a therapist who has had type one for, like, well over thirty years, and I think you and her would love each
other. I'm sure we would.
She's out there, by the way. Are you still in California?
No. No. I'm in Oregon.
Oh, okay. Oh, that's right. You're up north. Okay. Sorry.
Yeah. Anyway, I I don't know. I cut you off. I have no idea where you are in your story now.
I
think you were asking me what it was like between Yeah. 1997, 2006. Yeah. So yeah. So the checking checking a lot.
The first human trials for Dexcom28:58
And then because, again, because I had been living in San I I went back to San Diego, I, and I knew the people at TCOID. I was able to get in on, you know, some early uses of the technology, and I was in the first human studies for the DexCom. And that was, I don't know, probably 2000 maybe. And it was have you ever talked to anybody about that? Like, with the what it
started out like? Early studies were like, no. I'd be thrilled to hear about it. Yeah. What was it like?
It was a surgical procedure where so I have a scar still about two inches in my lower abdomen, and they inserted about
a
I think it was probably like a AA battery size device into that extra fat that the Hungarian doctor told me I had. And
so luckily, I had that to put it into.
Good thing you didn't lose that 10 pounds.
I know. So, it came in handy. So it was just hanging out there, and this was when because it was so new. Right? And the idea was initially, like, can can people can patients handle all of this information?
That was, I remember, one of the questions. Because I got interviewed, you know, quite a few times through the because this is early development. So through the process, lots of conversations about what this would be like. So I mean, and this was brand new. It had only been used in dogs.
So there were, like, 20 of us in doing these human trials. So I had to go in weekly to UCSD, and then they would upload, download, whatever, transfer the data from this device in my tummy. And then the well, I guess it would go from that device to I was carrying something around, some big clunky, like, Sony Walkman size kind of thing Mhmm. I think. And then it would they would that's where the data was held, and then they would transfer it, every Friday.
And then, you know, they would look at it and see what was going on. And then remember I went on vacation with some friends, to Puerto Vallarta, and I was wearing a black bathing suit on the beach. And I'm this is what I'm I've kinda made this story out because I came back from there, and they're like, oh my gosh. Your sensor died. We think maybe maybe it got, like, fried when you're on
your vacation or something. So,
you know, it was so expressive.
Then, okay. Then I had to
go have it, you know, removed and then that was I was done with that part of the study. But but, you know, I think the, you know, kind of to your the point one of the points of your question, I'm guessing, is, like, just to to for all of us to reflect on the amazing advances in the technology both in the insulin types, you know, because I I was before all these amazing long acting, you know, basils. Right? And there's people, you know, obviously who've had it fifty years, sixty years who can have the real the real interesting historic stories. But but just that one shift, that development of this continuous glucose monitoring has been such a game changer.
Oh, yeah.
And, you know, like they were concerned about is this going to be too much information for people, you know, the it can it can be a lot. Right? I mean, we we can we, that's where I think enter enter the mindfulness stuff. So it was around that same time or a little bit later that it's 2000 let's see. I was pregnant with Grace.
So 2002. Yeah. So it's 2002, and I've I had been told, you know, you're basically, you're too stressed out about this. You gotta chill out. And and I was working at that time.
I'd moved into into health care by this point because I oh gosh. I don't wanna go into too many rabbit holes. Lots of stories to tell. But, I was working for the Whittier Institute for Diabetes in a project called or a division called Project Dulce. And so I was doing peer diabetes education because, you know, my first career had been as a teacher, and then my graduate degree was in clinical psychology.
So I'm like, blend these things together, right, and help people. And I live with type one, so it seemed like I was made for that job. Right? Like so doing this job, stressed out, and knowing that there had to be a better way. And I saw this flyer in the hallway at the Scripps Hospital.
Says, like, MBSR, mindfulness based stress management. I was like, I don't know what that mindfulness based
stuff is, but I sure need stress management.
And so I signed up for the class, and it was the most impactful eight weeks and $300, you know, of my life to that point at that point. And I thought pretty quickly into it, everybody with diabetes needs this. Everybody needs this.
Are you an anxious person by trade, like, prior to diabetes?
Yes. I'm I was gonna say yes and no, but, I mean, if there's yes in there, then it's yes.
What so so so even before type one, you would have described yourself as however people talked about it back then?
Yeah. We didn't really talk about it back then.
No. Type a type a, uptight, that stuff, those words?
I I don't think anybody would have described me as type a or uptight. I think I'm a pretty like, I'm a peacemaker kind of I wasn't yeah. I got good grades in high school and all that stuff. Not so high performing in college, kind of a little bit more trying to figure stuff out. Yeah.
I I'm not as type I'm I'm in on the spectrum. How's that?
Put put it in find words for it though. Like, what how did you like, how would you describe yourself if not anxious? I
really cared about doing well.
You were a worrier?
I wouldn't have described myself as a worrier either. I think I just
Perfectionist?
Again, on the spectrum.
Oh, it's interesting. You yeah. You you don't have so do you not wanna put a word to it, or do you not do you really feel like there's not a word to put to how you are?
I feel like all of those words bring to mind something that I'm not quite. But, yeah, I'm
not quite. I just, for the first time, have I, for the first time, know how people feel when they're talking to me.
How's that? What do you mean?
Because, like, I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll experience something emotional and my eyes will, like, well up, and my wife will go, you're crying. And I go, I'm not crying. I'm just welling up. And she'll say, well, no. That's crying.
Finding mindfulness36:09
And I go, I don't I'm not crying. I've cried before. This isn't crying. And then then fifteen minutes later, she looks like she wants to murder me then jump off a roof. And I'm like, and I think I'm starting to have that feeling asking you about your anxiety.
You wanna jump off the roof. I'm sorry. Let's just
say a word, Heather. Which is it?
Well, I'll tell you okay. Late later, much later in this story, I this is this is definitely okay. I remember a moment when I was like, wow, I actually have been really anxious. It was when I was discovering functional medicine and, went to this chiropractor and she gave me this, like, powder, this magic powder that she called Peaceful Warrior. And it's basically, magnesium that crosses the blood brain barrier.
And she's like, just take this. And I was like, I loved her and was obsessed with her, and I was like, I will do whatever you tell me to do. I took it, this little drink, you know, for two weeks, and I woke up one day and I was like, woah.
Just felt relaxed?
I was like, where is that constant vibration I've been living with for so long I didn't know I had it. So I would say the I had become so accustomed to, like, a you know, I think anxiety is is really it is really complicated. Right? Because there are anxious thoughts, there are anxious sensations. Right?
And then they're, like, anxious feelings. And you so, I mean, yeah, it kind of sometimes it's all happening at once. I've and maybe maybe what's happening, Scott, I've really never had this kind of conversation, so thank you. It's fascinating to be, like, hearing myself talk out loud. Like, the it's like I don't identify as a diabetic.
I'm a, you know, I'm a person who lives with, among many other things, right, type one diabetes. So I don't want to be called anxious because like everyone, I experience anxiety and sometimes it's normal and healthy, which we should be worried about things, and sometimes it it borders into, you know, unskillful and unhelpful. Like, I love your quote. I've I've already shared it with a couple of clients here, like, that worry is a waste of imagination. I think that's really amazing.
So, yeah, I think I really am obviously resisting, you know, a label in that way.
Oh, no. You and I first of all, listen. If you and I got together, we'd murder each other in five seconds. I you we would you're a pain in the ass just like I am. I could tell just talking to you.
Because I have said, like like, well, somebody I was talking to somebody the other day and they're like, well, you know, like, you're an influencer. I'm like, I am not an influencer. Don't call
me that. Mhmm.
And and they're like, why? It's there's nothing wrong with that. I'm like, I don't know. I don't that I don't don't don't put me in a box. Like, I don't know what that feeling is.
It's like, don't I don't wanna be identified. I don't wanna be put in a box. It feels limiting. Yes. No.
No. I'm hearing it while you're talking. Trust me.
You and
I you and I might be the same person. And so just all of that. Even when I was in middle school, my guidance counselor said, Scott, you should be a lawyer. And I said, but then I'd be a lawyer every day. And and now I hear how you, like, have skipped through different like, you've done different work throughout your life.
I've resisted having an actual adult job most of my life.
And and so
yeah. So, like, I was a stay at home dad for a long time.
Yeah. Very cool. Your kids are lucky. So lucky.
They don't know that, but one day they'll figure it out. And then I pivoted to this. And there's there are times, like, if if you sat here and tried to have, like, a deep conversation with me and said, Scott, the podcast is over, and on Monday morning, you're gonna go to an office, I'd start to cry. Just
I feel like,
no. No. No. No. No.
I'm not built I'm not built for this.
Yeah. The office is a box.
But but even even just the idea that, like, I would do a thing over and over and over again. Yes. Like, that's the part that, like, I don't It's
soul crushing.
And I don't wanna sound like listen. My my mom and dad grew like, I grew up my parents went to the same job every day for their whole life. And, like, I'm grateful for it. And I know there are a lot of people listening who are like, oh, that's nice, Scott. I don't have a podcast.
I'm sitting in my office right now. And Mhmm. And and I'm sure they would love to not be doing that maybe. I mean, some people might love it. I have no idea.
I just know that when I talk about it and I start to go on like this, I think, oh, I sound just like Heather. And when you're talking, I think, gee, you and I have a lot in common. So
Well, I'm glad that you can identify that.
Well well, listen. You might be at the end of this, you might you might be insulted by it. Who who knows? But but also
I'm prepared to be insulted today.
We're also the same age.
Oh, really?
Yeah. So we grew up, like, through the same time and you know what I mean? Like, there's there's gotta be something to it. Where where were you born in '70?
November '69. Yeah. How about you?
I'm '71. So, like, so we're I mean, we're about the same age. Right? Yeah. And and I grew up through a time where, like, somebody told me, like, I was gonna go to a thing and do a thing, and that's what I was going to do.
I had no expectation about being happy or fulfilled. I was just gonna go do do that job. And I my whole life thought, I can't. I don't wanna do that. But then that's what happened to me.
Right? Right? Like, that was my situation. That's how I got started. And then it's only through I I feel like I've said this on here before, but, like, it's only because my wife who was better raised, better educated, was willing to look past who I appeared to be to find out who I was.
Does that make sense?
Totally. Yeah.
Like, Wow.
She pulled
me out of a world by, like, offering me space in hers, I guess. Yeah. And then, you know
She's a keeper.
You know? Thirty years. I I'm sick. Yeah.
But That's amazing. Somebody I definitely haven't done that.
Well, somebody asked me recently, like, what's the secret to being married for thirty years? I was like, you willfully have to not get married or not get divorced at least twice. There's two times in your life where both of you at some point, like, independently have to go, I'm gonna stay even though I feel like I should set the house on fire and lock all the doors.
That is so honest to you, Scott.
And are you glad you stayed?
Well, yeah, because you don't realize it's it's the same thing with, like, when I see people diagnosed and they're so heartbroken at first. I always say, I'm like, one day you won't feel like this anymore.
Right. You know? Like Right.
Yeah. Think back on all the things you've been upset about in the past that you're not upset about anymore. One day, this thing will be that.
Yes. Exactly. But it's so hard. Like, I look back on that me who was being told by that physician, you know, you gotta chill out. And I was like, he was right, and I couldn't hear it because I didn't have perspective.
And so when I meet people, which I do a lot, you know, who are brand new or new new ish, you know, in their first I think it's I don't know. I'd be curious what you think. But, like, I think it's at least five years, maybe seven before you've been through enough that you have perspective? What do you think? How long do you think it takes?
Does it depend?
Well, so the diabetes is just a new life. And if you
It is.
Yeah. And if you think about, like, you were growing a life and living in experiences, and then suddenly there's, like, a massive shift. Like, you're still you and you still have all your expectations and your knowledge and your and your your memories. But the but suddenly somebody brings, like, a whole new, like, world and says, now you have to live here as well. Like, you have to blend who you are with this new thing.
Yes.
And the only way that can happen and I don't wanna say through acceptance because one of us can sound like a hippie, but it shouldn't be both of us. I'm gonna say that the only way it happens, the way I put it is, you have to have enough experiences over and over again until instead of until it the outcome isn't you going, oh, no. Something new is happening. It's a thing that you just are so accustomed to, you don't have to think about it. Like, the way I always kinda think about where I am with diabetes now and where I feel like everybody will get to at some point is that when you approach a closed door, you don't look at it and think, oh, the door is closed.
I have to reach my hand out and grab that handle and turn it and pull the door to get out of here. That just happens as you walk towards the door. And I and I think diabetes turns into that eventually. Like, there's all these little functionally important steps that you take every time you do one of those things, but eventually, have enough experience that you don't think about it. It just happens.
And so
That is a really great. Honestly, that that metaphor of the door is such an op like an obvious one. That's great.
I only came up with it years ago because I was looking at a door when I thought about it. Had I been looking at something else, I would have made up a different metaphor at the time, but, like, I I appreciate that. It it's just that there's you don't realize how many things you do in the course of a day that have so many pieces to it, so many steps that you just you just mindlessly go through because your body reflexively knows what to do. And then suddenly, somebody throws a thing at you, and you don't understand any of the steps, and it feels like you're gonna die. It feels like you're never gonna get the door open.
But that's not true. You just get up, keep going. Eventually, you'll forget how bad you felt today. You'll be in the future. You will look back, not even recognize yourself, and walk through that door effortlessly.
There. And the foundation of that is good tools. So the answer to your question is, how quickly do you get through it? That I think is two it's two pieces. When do you get the tools and the understanding?
And to me, that means understanding how insulin works. And then how long does it take for you to have those experiences over and over until they feel normal? Mhmm. That's it.
That's it.
Thank god I
didn't get a
real job. This this this podcasting thing is for me.
It's totally for you, and you're giving a lot of wisdom.
Oh, please.
I think there's a if I might add just a third layer to that.
Please.
And that's the develop and maybe it's woven into the one or two layers. I just feel like I need to, like, I don't know, add to the conversation. But it's that kind of emotional, psychological ability to flex with the myriad uncertainties in diabetes. Right? Because as much as now we have tons and tons and tons and tons of data and technology, you know, many many of us, most of us in this country, we're fortunate.
There is still mystery, and it's that, you know, unpredictability that you can have all the tools, you can have all the experience. But, again, to kinda go back to the the mindfulness toolbox that I've I've been working on, you know, for a very long time now, the the tools to roll with the sorrows and the surprises and the I'm doing everything right or I'm doing everything that I did yesterday and why is it so different today. You know, just the the the uncertainty. I I real and the suffering that comes with that. So I feel like that's the the the deeper, skill set that, I wish everybody had.
Yeah. Well, so what what I think the this little unfolding of this conversation points out is that I'm a boy. So when I get to that part, I just put my head down and keep going. And and and it's really important to get a different perspective, which which is the one you just laid out. And I I am not, like I'm not saying that I don't need that part.
I obviously need that part. I just don't describe it the same way, I guess. And I probably don't and I probably don't experience it the same way. And I don't mean to, like, I'm sure it's not as easy as gender, but I'm just using it for the like, I think that what I just said needed a woman's touch. I just as if what if you would have gone first, I would have been like, hey.
Hey. Here's some more of the functional side of it that I think is important. I think the blending of that is what gets you to it.
So true.
Yeah.
I I do I do agree with you totally there, and I recognize that these things come in a lot of different languages and styles. Because I I did hear on one of your recent podcasts, and I'd love to understand more about this, but I guess you've got some pilot thing, some twenty one day thing where you're yeah. That sounds super, super cool. What can
you haven't told anybody.
I haven't really talked a lot about that yet. I'm happy to. I just I realized the other day that I I'm probably one of those people that puts out more stuff than I even have time to tell people about, if that if that makes sense. So Uh-huh. The thing you're describing right now is not actually live.
It's live on my website, but I haven't linked it to anything. Like, there's no way for you to know it's there. So I'll fix this.
Yeah. Yeah.
So right. Exactly. Well, I wanted to slow walk a little bit. I actually got about 50 people who demoed it for me. And I took all their their input and blended their input into a like a final idea.
So so basically, the the pro tip series of the podcast is management stuff.
Mhmm.
And it's I don't know. At this point, honestly, it's twenty five, twenty seven episodes, something like that. I would tell you that if you listen to the pro tip series and even halfway understand it, your a one c will go into the sixes. Mhmm. And I think things will get easier, etcetera.
But a lot of people don't like listening that long. And so I created something called the small sip series, is shorter sort of like ten minute episodes that I don't wanna say mimic the the pro tip series, but they give you the essence of it. Mhmm. Such that, hopefully, you'll think to move on and try longer form to get to a thing. And so I created kind of like a twenty one day, like, a guided reflection, I guess, is maybe the best way to put it, right, about living with diabetes.
So you you get a I don't know. The there you get to the first day. There's this you sort of read about what it's about. You hit a little acknowledgment. You move on.
I can actually reset mine so I can go back to the first day. It's a practice, not a course. Like, there's no pressure. You do it at your own time. You know, there's kind of you know, there's five phases to the entire twenty one days.
So, like, the first phase is the first three days. It's sort of like a settling, like a calming of the nervous system. There's no technique talked about. Just sort of kinda gives you permission to get going. Days four to seven, more about CGM literacy, all about observations, nothing to intervene.
Days eight to twelve, vocabulary for everything that's happening to you. Days thirteen to seventeen, like tiny little experiments, also pure observation. In days eighteen to twenty one, you sort of identify work, recognize who you've become, and then there's an optional twenty second day where you could do a share, like write a note to your care team about what you've learned and what you would like to do moving forward. As you thank you. Well, no.
As you step through it, like, day one, I'll give you just a a brief example. It just tells you there it gives you an affirmation. There's a little quote from one of the episodes. It said the quote is when you understand what's happening, diabetes stops being something that happens to you and becomes something you're doing. And that shift begins the moment you start to look.
There's an affirmation. I'm not behind. I'm starting. And then the noticing, notice how you feel when you check your CGM today, not the number, but the feeling. Are you curious?
Does it feel you fill you with dread, tiredness, nothing? Just notice it. And then there's an option to listen to one of the small sips episodes. And then at the end of the day, you there's a reflection. What did I notice about my relationship to my CGM today?
And then when you're done, you mark that day complete, and it takes you to the second day. I saw some people do it twenty two days in a row. I saw some people take two months to do it. But no matter how long they took to get through it, their feedback was all the same.
What was the feedback?
They found it just comforting, enlightening, told them things about themselves, gave them ideas about what to do next.
“You built an applied mindfulness program”53:26
See, in my in my language, I would say you created an applied mindfulness diabetes program.
Well, do you wanna know what I what I hold on a second. I'm gonna be honest. Let me take a drink.
Yeah. Yeah.
So what I did like, my thought was that I've heard from enough people over enough years. If you listen to that series, you'll do okay. And that's not a selling point to a lot of people. So I went and I looked at how people make money helping people because self help or guided help is a big industry. Mhmm.
And I I basically sat down with my business partner. You might know him. His name's Claude. He's French. And
he Claude Anthropic? Yes.
He and I he and I chatted for a while, and I said to my buddy, I said, Claude, listen. I have everything they need here, but I have no desire to make money from it. But I do think that that that model that people use in the business world is attractive to people for some reason. So let's use the model, but make it free. And then that that was the the where we started.
And then I said I wanna base it off of the pro tip series, but I don't wanna give them hour long episodes when we're offering them content. So let's give them shorter stuff. So let's match up the small sips to the pro tips to do that. And then I don't know. Then I just I spent time working on it, getting it to where I thought it was good.
And then I reached I was lucky enough to have a community I could reach out and and I didn't wanna publicize it. So I'm lucky enough to be able to say, hey. I need help with something. I'm not gonna tell you what it is until you email me. And still 50 people emailed.
So I was like, okay. Here's what I've got. Like, do it. Don't do it. It's up to you.
When you get done, if you get done, would you just send me your feedback? And some people were it is really interesting because some people's feedback was just like, this was worded oddly. Like, on one day, I didn't understand exactly what this meant. So I fixed it. And in some places, they were like, this is perfect.
Don't touch any of this. It's somebody found a typo. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, awesome. Thanks.
You you like, so everybody's input helped, and then I got it back. And now I have to figure out how to put it into the world because I'm not gonna sell it. I'm not gonna be like, hey. Here's the steps to your like, I I don't have that in me to talk to people that way. And so I have to find a way to get it out in the world.
And I figured what I'll do is I'll this time, I'll publicly say what it is and invite people to use it, make sure they understand it's free, and it doesn't there's nothing at the end that asks you for money. It's not an incomplete journey. It's not like a third of the information, and the other two thirds come when you pay me $3,000. Like, it's nothing like that. And so, like, once I figure it gets out there and people have a good experience, they'll probably share it the way they share the podcast.
So, you know, anyway
Very, very, very cool.
Thank you.
Deep listening, and body fullness56:35
Because it really is it's you know, one of the definitions I like of of mindfulness is it's a deep listening practice. Right? So it's awareness. It's awareness. It's listening to ourselves, listening to our our thoughts, our our sensations, and our emotions, right, and our experience.
And so that's that's what your that's what I hear your program offers, which is really essential, right, if we're just going off of data, with our diabetes and not connecting it to our bodies, you know, I like the term body fullness. Right? Connecting connecting what what is a what does a low feel like? What does a high feel like? How does our body respond when we see the double arrows down, our, you know, our minds, our hearts, our, you know, the the fear?
I mean, like, that is a moment that anxiety is natural because it's those double arrows down are telling us, that we are literally headed, you know I mean, it depends on where you are. Like, if you're, like, it's happened to many of us, if you're 70 and double arrows down, that's that's scary. If you're 350 and you're double arrows down, you're celebrating. So even, you know, noticing the differences in your responsiveness or reactiveness, you know, in that that data. It sounds like your, you know, your program is really connecting all that.
I hope so. It's just so cool.
Thank you. I I listen. I'm just a person who like, I've been doing this. This is my twelfth year making this podcast.
And Long time.
And I feel like I keep getting insights into people. And that sometimes those insights are human and sometimes they're more generational or of the moment, if that makes sense. Like, there I have been at this long enough where I can tell you that the zeitgeist wants different things at different times. Mhmm. And and there's a way to meet I I swear to god, I hate saying stuff like this, but there is a way to meet somebody where they are.
Like Mhmm. But you have to keep shifting. You can't say, I made a thing. Use the thing. Because then then society shifts, and they're like, well, yeah.
I mean, I heard that thing looks old, or it's not how I think about it or whatever. Like, you have to keep pivoting with everybody if you wanna I found a way to help them. Like, the the the blessed truth is go listen to the pro tip series. A one c will go in the sixes. But that's not how some people wanna be spoken to.
That's not how some people wanna learn. So you don't just take you don't just take all this information or this collection that you know works and go, well, that person's not interested in listening to a podcast, so screw them. They don't get this. I think, let me find a way to reach the people who would prefer to do it like this. Let me find a way to reach the people who would prefer to do it this way.
I recently, I produced a bunch of songs that are based off of the content in the podcast. And so, like, for little kids to teach them a little bit about their diabetes for tweens. And then I thought, well, this is it feels hokey to do it for an adult. Right? Like, I wouldn't do that.
But what I ended up doing was looking at the conversations between myself and Erica, who I mentioned earlier, Erica Forsyth. She's a therapist who has type one for, god, Erica's had type one for, like, thirty five years maybe. And she and I have these kind of deep conversations about things that I don't think people talk about very often, like worry being a waste of imagination or, you know, that that sort of stuff. And what I learned while I was while, again, my business partner and I were talking is, like, is that I yes. I could take an episode of the podcast, the a pro tip of the podcast and turn it into, like, a ninety second jingle that a five year old could listen to and understand about their diabetes.
But I was like, I wonder if we could turn the mental health conversations into actual songs. Like, what are songs? Like, songs or poems that are that are musical that make you feel a certain way or make you remember a certain thing. And I did that. I came up with a number of adult like, it's weird because it's AI and people like, some people are gonna have a feeling about that and that's fine.
But I'm telling you that they're catchy. You if I didn't tell you they were made with AI, you might not know. And they somehow take the essence of those conversations and build it into into something that, like, actually people I'm getting notes from people like, can't believe I'm crying listening to a song made by a computer. And the point is it's not really made by a computer. It's made by our conversation.
And my dozens of and my, you know, dozen years of having talked to people with type one and being able to lead a conversation with Erica who also has really valuable, you know, additions to make to the conversation. Like, the the conversation is writing a song. You just have to find it and pull it out of it. Just like the pro tip series was writing the guided meditation. You just have to look inside of it, find it, and pull it out of it.
Yeah. And I only figured that out because I have access to AI now. Because I used to spend Heather, you said you've been working on your thing a long time. I I bet you you and I are having the same experience, which is like you look and you go, it's all here. I don't know how to put it together correctly.
Mhmm. And because my brain couldn't hold it all at the same time and Mhmm. And rewire it. But Mhmm. Conversationally was something that could hold all the ideas at the same time.
It it helped me lead me through and then I was like, yes. Take that piece. Put that piece with this piece. That's what this is for. And then I it was just sort of like having a it's like having a virtual blackboard that's kinda infinite.
If that makes sense. Wow.
It does. That's really it's that's really interesting and really, really exciting because I I am definitely, like well, like so many of us. Like, music is it speaks to us and tap helps evoke things in us in unique way.
Yeah. And you have to just get past the embarrassment of it gets like, someone's gonna hear that one of those songs and go, that is so stupid. And somebody is gonna hear it and think, oh my god. That really touched me. And I have to have the I don't know what it is I have to have, the zen to step back and go, some people are gonna look at me and say, wow.
Thank you. And some people are gonna look at me and go, you're an idiot who's blowing up the world with AI. And I have to be able to go, okay, and just keep going. That great like, it helps some people. And so that's the win.
And everybody else who's not helped by it, I'll either look for another thing that might help you or I'll take your condemnation and I'll go. And by the way, lately, if you look at my Instagram, I've been turning my bad reviews into songs with AI.
No way.
It's partially for my own amusement, but and and it helps me learn how to use the like, you can imagine, like, if you're trying to teach this thing how to help you with something, like, how difficult is it to teach it to, like, turn a bad podcast review into an actual singable song? And it's a so it's like it's a fun exercise. It helps me learn how to use, like, different tools and stuff like that. And it makes me laugh because I wish the people knew how much I don't care.
Yeah. That's fun.
I didn't grow up in your I didn't grow up in your online world. I can't see you. You don't exist. So
That's maybe partially generational thing too.
For sure. But I thought did I you said you had kids. I taught it to my kids. Like, when the when the phones got, you know, in everybody's hands and everybody was online, they're like, oh, this person's bullying this person. I'm like, listen.
I'm not for bullying anybody. I'm like, but I don't understand how you got cyberbullied. Turn don't look at it. Over. Yeah.
It's over now. Like, my neighbor, I know for sure, Heather, I live across the street from an actual crazy person. Okay? Mhmm. You'll just have you'll just have to believe me.
Mhmm. I that that woman hates my guts. She hates me. But you know what I do? I don't talk to her, and I'm not aware of it.
You can't let it in.
I just don't is that how people put it? I just think, like, it doesn't doesn't exist. What do I care? Yeah. So Yeah.
So please tell me how like like, the the the thing that, you know, where someone found you at. Like, what's this mindfulness thing look like in person? I mean, how can people, like, go see you in person? How does like, what do you think they get out of it? I wanna hear the whole thing.
Oh, great. I'm I'm so happy to talk about the diabetes sangha. So yeah. So I bet, you know, I told that story about how I discovered this MBSR thing changed my life. Everybody with diabetes needs to have this.
How do we get this out? Blah blah blah. Right before the pandemic, I had been, approached by, an amazing young man, Sam Tolman, who had connected with who's I don't know if he self describes as Buddhist, but he's a very he has a very deep, very deep practice and, you know, does he does all the all the things. And he had met Bill Polonsky, who I mentioned earlier, who had been my mentor, and he and I have kept in touch over over the years. And Sam was telling Bill what he wanted to do, and Bill's like, oh, you need to meet Heather.
And so we met, and then he Sam had been connected with another amazing, young woman, Brooke Cassoff, who was in San Francisco at the time, I think, who was into mindful self compassion and yoga for diabetes and had all these all these amazing, you know, training skills, practices, embodied all this stuff. So they were and then there's another fabulous guy who was diagnosed with LADA in his fifties who's out your neck of the woods out in you're in New Jersey? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah.
He's he's on Long Island. And so they were creating this thing that they called the diabetes sangha. There's there's a lot more you if anybody's curious about more of the back history, you can look on the website. And Sam was like, what do you think about this? I was like, oh my god.
This I've been, like, waiting
for somebody to do this.
You know? I didn't know how to do it, but, yes, this is perfect. Go. I'll be a part. And then I was like, these young people have it.
You know? They're really savvy. I think I had already pretty much gotten off of social media by that point just because I I can't I couldn't really handle it. Mhmm. I'm not I it's it is more powerful than I am.
So I was like, I don't wanna I don't wanna be a part of this. So so I was like, they they can do all that stuff. So go go go. So they got this thing started, and sangha just really means community in, I don't know. Is it Pali or one of those, languages?
And so diabetes sangha. So it's an online community for people with type one who want to come together and have a mindfulness based, you know, meditation space Mhmm. Where we communicate, connect, practice together. And it is really growing thanks to, you know, everyone's efforts and word-of-mouth and, yes, social media and all the all the things. And it is I think
it
offers so much community and, you know, the the suffering that is inherent in diabetes, which I I believe is unique. I have I have another autoimmune disease and, you know, for a while, I was really when I thought I was diagnosed with, ankylosing spondylitis about eight years ago, and I was like, wow. This is weird. This is different. This is, like, accompanied by a whole lot of physical pain, which diabetes for me, thankfully, doesn't doesn't have.
That's not an element of it for me, right now. So the physical pain and then all of that. So I kinda went down into that community for a while, and then I was like, you know and all of these other autoimmune diseases, you know, were all in this whole big community, you know, celiac, Hashimoto's, all that stuff, you know Yep. RA and Crohn's, all that. So and they all seem to have things in common, like what flares, you know, and there's there's a lot that's very, interconnected.
And then through it all, I kept thinking diabetes is so different. It is so different. None of those diseases can you die in an instant if you get your medication wrong. Yeah. None of those conditions have this breath by breath, moment by moment responsibility to stay alive and to prevent all these horrible things from it's just like so it was very helpful for me, interesting to learn all that stuff.
And then I just had this longing to kind of get back to diabetes, you know, community. And so I think what the sangha, you know, provides and, you know, everybody has their own thing that they get from it, is just that space of a shared grief and suffering and knowing. And we don't even talk about all that all that much. You know? No.
What a practice actually looks like1:10:22
But just being and you get it. I mean, you have a whole podcast for twelve years based on the same thing. You know? This is this is a space where, you know, it's really hard to get it if you don't live it or, you know, in your case, be a a parent living with it, which is a whole another, you know, way to way to suffer. And so, you know, the community is really around people wanting to build these practices.
And I you know, the last couple of years, I've really been working on what what are called the, you know, in in the Buddhist language, the Brahma Viharas or the the the divine heart practices because they're they're very they're, again, they're they're skillful. I like this stuff so much because it's practical and, you know, it's not like new age y or whatever. I mean, it's so old and these tools are so helpful for the suffering that that diabetes brings. And in in it, as we practice together, there's all this joy. Right?
There's all this gratitude that is right, dancing with the sorrow. It's it's, it's palpable, and we we talk about that. And I don't know. There's just there's a lot of love. And so the the four divine abodes are these practices of loving kindness, compassion, joy, which are like the warm, you know, fuzzy feel good experiences, practices, ways of being, and then equanimity, which is that all which, you know, you seem like you've you've you do well with that.
I know, like, my husband is much better at that than I am. But equanimity is that practice of walking evenly on uneven ground, being you know, not being so bothered by things, like staying steady, practicing a steadiness, a steadiness of mind, of heart, of being when things are unsteady or unpleasant or even when they're, like, really pleasant, but, like, not getting, you know, taken away by either the, you know, super highs or the super lows. Like, staying maintaining that kind of steady steadiness steadiness of mind, steadiness of heart. And, man, those practices are so helpful. Yeah.
I Trans yeah.
Go ahead. What's it's wonderful. I I it's it takes a person who's been involved in something like this for so long to put all those pieces together. Real really. And and to to be able to offer to another person without them having to spend all the time you had to spend to to make it one cohesive idea.
That's it's just lovely. I I would tell you to the the part about you know, I I just sort of think that all the things around me, they're not me. Right? Like, no matter where you put me, I'm me. And so, I mean, close your eyes.
Right? I'm still I'm still me, and I can't see any of this around me. It just doesn't exist. And when I open my eyes and it's there, I I don't I don't have the anxiety that says, oh gosh. That thing's been in the corner of my room for a year and a half.
I can't believe I haven't thrown it away. Or, like, or done the thing I said I was gonna do with it, or how come we haven't done this? Like, I'm happy wherever I am. And unless something's literally hurting me or the people I love, I'm okay. That I mean, as long as I'm okay, I'm okay.
But I think part of that is, like, I grew up really broke. I didn't have a lot of expectations. I lived through things where it was very hot or very cold or not a lot of food all the time, not a lot of Mhmm. Like, support all the time. You know, there's not always the the feedback from parents that you would hope that a parent would give.
There was, you know, you live with a lot of, like, insecurity and, you know, and and unevenness. And then I don't know if it's a decision you make for people, but, like, I didn't want those things to hold me back. And I really did think, like, the this this won't last forever. Like, so Right?
Like You had that perspective even as a young person.
I think it helps a little that, I'm adopted. So so I'd never, I was adopted as a baby. I don't know another way to both of my parents are dead, so I don't feel badly saying this out loud, I guess. I was adopted by very nice middle class people. And it didn't take me long in my life to realize that when something came up, I had a completely different reaction than they did or an idea about how to move forward or what I thought was important or scary was different than what they were bothered by.
And I later in life sort of I don't know. I sort of started to think about that as like I don't wanna say intelligence, but like capacity maybe. Mhmm. And and so I I I don't know. Like, it I wasn't tied to their reactions the same way as you might be in a more nuclear family where, like, everyone has the same reaction.
They think the same way, so they're reinforced all the time. Like, mom's scared. I feel like mom feels I'm wired like she is. I'm scared too. This must be scary.
Like, my mom would be scared, and I'd think that doesn't seem right to me. Or, you know, where they'd focus on something, and I'd think that's not the thing I would be worried about right here. And so then it just teaches you then you watch and the outcomes go the way you expect, and then that just built on my confidence. I was like, oh, I I think I'm right about things sometimes. Like, I'll learn to trust myself better.
And now if you ask me, the way I usually say it on the podcast to be lighthearted is, like, if the zombies come, you come find me. I'll be okay. Like, we'll we'll be alright when it's over.
And and I That's fantastic.
And I don't know why other than to tell you that often when a question arises, I seem to do a thing or have a reaction that ends up in an outcome that is good. I I I wouldn't even begin to tell you I know the right thing to do. It's not it's not like I assess. I've I've I don't know. Maybe you this might be interesting for you, but do you have a do you have an inner monologue?
Can you hear a voice in your head?
Oh, constantly. Yeah.
I don't have one. Wow. So when you think about things, do you think through like a like, a checklist or, this will happen then, okay, then I'll go to this and this. Like, do you have, like, a thought process you go through when you make a decision? Probably.
It's not always so linear, but there's plenty of there's plenty of thinking happening. So you don't have that.
No. I just know what to do. You just ask me something or put me in a situation and I pause and then I do the right thing very often.
So that response comes from where?
I have no idea. Don't understand it completely. I don't have a I don't have a linear thought process. I don't even the things I'm going to do today, I they're not planned out. I don't have a to do list.
I just do what makes sense to me in the moment.
That is a certain kind of intelligence, I think.
I I don't it might be. It doesn't apply to anything measurable. I was a terrible student. I'm very bad at math. I I wrote a book.
Like, I'm a published author. The last the last thing I did after I wrote my manuscript was ran it through word to find out where the commas were supposed to go.
Like, I
was like, I don't under I don't understand punctuation. I don't understand. I I had to drop out of algebra. I I couldn't wrap my head around it at all. But I don't know.
Bigger thoughts or, like, that kind of thing, that sort of just comes to me. Yeah. Yeah.
It's definitely I mean, it's so unfortunate that that is not encouraged, allowed, nurtured, etcetera in school, but maybe you didn't sounds like you actually didn't even need that.
Scott, you I didn't care about that.
You didn't care? Yeah. You didn't care.
I I really I so genuinely don't care what other people think about me. It's hard to put into words.
Mhmm.
I do wanna be a nice person, and I do want people to look at me and think I want them to see, like, who I actually am because I know I know that, like, I'm brash on the outside. And, like, I'll say to some people, like, I know I come off like an asshole, but I'm not. And or, like but I think that's just because the social norms that go around pretending, I'm not good at. Like, I really did make that twenty one day thing just to put the thumb in the eye of people who are charging people with diabetes a bunch of money to learn how to pre bolus. Mhmm.
I was like, that sucks. They shouldn't do that. I'll give it away for free.
Well, you're really lucky that you've gotten I shouldn't say lucky. I'm sure you you worked you worked this out, but you've got sponsors.
Yeah. I don't need the podcast. Well well, I just I but that doesn't it's not by mistake. I started making this thing, and my my so my guiding my guiding principle on the podcast is is very much, like, one fold, maybe split into two, which is I get up every day and I think, I wonder what these people need. And then I try and then I try to do that thing.
And I'm very guided by the idea that it should not cost you money. Mhmm. Like, there's no world where someone should charge you to learn about how the insulin timing works or what a pre bolus is or is that or that anxiety or adrenaline might hit you when you wake up in the morning. Like, that that's so that should be something somebody tells you. So when I realized I wanted to do what needed to be done and I didn't want people to pay for it, I thought, well, someone's gotta pay for it.
Who's that gonna be? Mhmm. And my first thought was, oh, I'll let Omnipod pay for it. Mhmm. Because I used to because I used to write a blog for them, and I thought, well, I'll just get them to buy an ad on the podcast.
Podcast.
Yeah.
Yeah. And then I did that. And then I was like, oh, well, they did it, and that worked out for them. I'll go ask Dexcom. And then, like and then I was like, okay.
Well, they seem happy, and I'm still helping people. And then people would say, well, you now you're only gonna do what your what your advertisers want you doing. I was like, no. You don't know me. I don't care about that.
Like, if they if they don't like it, then I'll go find somebody else to do it. Like, I'm not gonna do so for a while, I used to have a problem where people thought this was like an Omnipod Dexcom podcast because they were the advertisers. So when I realized that was a problem for people, I went, oh, I'll go get more advertisers so that you know that I don't care which pump
you have.
Right? Right. Like Right. Right. So just because my daughter uses an Omnipod doesn't mean I don't think you wouldn't benefit from a MiniMed Flex.
Like, do you know what mean? Like, if that's the right thing for you, then rock and roll. Like, go. Yes. And so, like, when you built, like so every time I address the problem, it just made the podcast more powerful.
Yeah. Right? Because it it there was more financial backing to give me more time to sit around and think about like, that twenty one day thing, you don't know me, but you might know me better now from this conversation. I don't functionally have the ability to sit down and map that out. Like, that was all conversational.
I came up with that. Mhmm. Right? And I wouldn't have been able to do that three years ago. I actually wouldn't have been able to do it nine months ago.
It's only that the AI, like, voice models got good enough to hold the like, I need somebody to talk to out loud and remember what I'm saying.
Mhmm.
And so, like, so once that was possible, was like, oh, I can work through that. Building that thing took a long time. Like, a lot of car rides for hours talking to AI and having it keep notes for me and then sitting down and hammering through it, making sure it's the way I wanted it to look and all that. Like, no one's doing that for you if they're not gonna charge you $3 to go through it. Okay?
But I am because Right. I don't care about the money because I have advertisers. And I also have a theory about money that that there's only so much, and then I don't think it makes a difference after that.
Mhmm.
And so if you're if you're comfortable, you don't really need more. And and so if you're not driven by finding more money, then you can be driven by finding more people to help. And then oddly enough, sometimes money just comes from that anyway. Yes. So yeah.
Yeah. That's all. That's that's I figured the whole thing out, Heather. Only thing I can't figure out is how to get taller. That that one.
How would you, like, be better if you were taller? Why do you wanna be taller?
Honestly, it's good that I'm not taller. I mean, Heather, if I was a little taller and slightly more handsome, I'd be the governor of a small state. And and and I don't think that would go well.
I And then you couldn't do this podcast.
I joke with people all the time. You're lucky I'm a well intended person, or I would take all your money. And I would have no trouble accomplishing it. I I know the steps. I just apply the steps to good stuff.
Like like yeah. Yeah. Thank god. Well, listen. You're not kidding.
I like, there's people who joke sometimes. They're like, that that podcast is a cult. And I was like, wouldn't that be funny if at the end I was just trying to get all your wives
together? Oh my gosh.
My wife always tells me, she's like, if I ever die, there are gonna be a line of ladies who have kids with diabetes out front holding casserole dishes.
My gosh. Ladies with casserole dishes. That is a very funny image.
She's like, you are a catch for somebody raising a kid with diabetes.
That's a niche.
Yeah. I've got I've got that market covered. We can all go, we can all go have a second life baby with an AI with an autoimmune issue.
I don't know if that's a a category
I'm dating. Point. Not a selling point. Would you like to make a baby with joint pain? Come find me.
But where are you, do you said you have kids. Do they have any autoimmune issues?
One daughter with celiac.
Okay. Alright. Is that you raised her with that, or did she get it later in life?
Oh, yeah. Probably at five, and then another daughter who also has, ankylosing spondylitis.
Oh. So So
tell me. I hear people who have type one and celiac often say if I could give one of these away, they'd give the celiac away. Do you have that feeling? Is it that you find it difficult,
I guess? Have that feeling. Yeah. I think it's funny because I actually heard that I used to facilitate a teen support group in in San Diego, people with diabetes, and one girl said that. She's, like, 13, and she was like, man, celiac is so much harder than diabetes.
Again, I don't I guess I don't like to give, like, very yes or no clean answers. I think it probably depends on the person in the day, you know. So so because I as I've heard you talk about with other people, I mean, diet type one diabetes, if you're paying attention, get basically gives you a gives you disordered eating, and celiac kinda does the same.
Yeah. It's I I don't think people think of it that way, but it's a 100% true. Like, you you get a weird relationship with food when you have type one. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. We're never not thinking about it. Like, a friend yesterday was telling me about this great new app that you can take a picture of your food, and then it tells you if you add this, then it'll be that much more nutritious. And I was like I was like, I am so not interested in an app about my food.
May may may I make a suggestion to everybody listening? Stop making apps. Okay? I've been I've been at this a long time, and the number of you that have come to me and gone, I've made an app, and it's gonna I'm like, no. It's not.
It's not. It even if it does, it's not. Because you know why? Because you can't get it to people. That's why.
That's why that's why poor Heather's here telling you about, you know, the the mindful I I lost the web page now. I I had it open.
Diabetes sangha.
Thank you. Yeah. I wanna I wanna give the URL, but I lost it. Hold on a second. I'll get it back.
The because it's nearly impossible to get people like, to get your thing to anybody. Like, the thing that I just described or even the pro tip series or any of that, like, I'm completely confident in how it helps people. Most of my job is getting it into people's hands. Mhmm. Like, if you wanna know what I what I toil at every day, it's finding ways to let people know, hey.
There's this thing here. It's free. It might help you. You should check it out. Right?
Mhmm. Diabetes why why you gotta pick a word that has an h in a weird spot?
I know. Sangha..com. Diabetessangha.com.
The sangha, and a retreat in Monroe1:27:48
Yeah. I see you're you're leading something tomorrow.
I am.
Yeah. I see it.
8AM Pacific time, 11AM eastern time. Mindfulness So all of those are are free. All the offerings. Most of the offerings are free. We do, there's a retreat coming up in New York this October.
People can check that out if they want a multi day experience led by Sam and Peter. Amazing, amazing humans.
Monroe. Can I tell people? Monroe, New York, October eighth to the eleventh, fall immersive retreat twenty twenty six. An immersive meditation retreat for people living with type one diabetes. Diabetes I I'm not connected, by the way.
I don't make money for this. Diabetessangha.com. You should check it out. Looks cool.
Yeah.
Very nice. Look at that. And and are you there live?
Yeah. Well, the the retreat is live. Yes. The retreat is live.
You are you there? I'm I'm asking.
I oh, I haven't decided yet if I'm gonna go. I did a Brooke Cassoff and I led a live retreat in person, and I was there in out here on the West Coast in April. I have a lot going on this fall, so I'm not sure if I personally am gonna be there. But lots of amazing, cool, super wonderful, compassionate, mindful people with type one diabetes who are also very fun. We laugh a lot in the sangha as well.
So, yeah, I think there are generally five, free guided practices, community sessions throughout the week, oftentimes extra stuff on the sun on Sundays. People who are interested in just, like, showing up in silence and not talking have options to just being in the space with people who have diabetes. There's a lot of sweetness.
I know people listening right now are like, Scott, you should try that. You should try showing up somewhere and shutting up.
It sounds like you have your own ways of listening to yourself, Scott.
I I I I I do my thing. I I just I'm I'm aware of this conversation. Someone will leave a review about this and be like, he did not let her talk. And then
I I talked a lot. Yeah.
Anybody thinks he didn't let me talk, They gotta really pay attention.
On reviews, and what people hear1:30:00
Well, Heather, I'll tell you what I've what I've learned through, joking about people's reviews is one thing. But what what brings a person like, what motivates a person to say, he didn't let that person finish or I was that person was clearly uncomfortable. So I've had a a number of experiences through the years. Like, one time I was talking to this girl in her, like, mid twenties. And I'd listen.
I don't know what we were talking about, but we were joking around about how much her father worked growing up. Mhmm. And and she was trying to paint a picture that I think he had, like, three jobs. And I said, so while you were growing up, you your dad is just that guy that walked in the house, slapped your mom on the ass, ate something, and left again. And she was like, oh my god.
Yeah. Like like, that's exactly what happened. And afterwards, she and I finished. I mean, we had a long conversation. I got this beautiful email from her about how what a great time she had on the podcast, and she was thanking me for 16 different things.
And then a week later, I get an interview that or a review that says, could you not hear how uncomfortable you made that girl? And I was like, Well, that's not actually what happened. But I wonder what happened in your life that that was your takeaway from it. Like and and so I've learned a lot that I when you make a podcast like this and you're just talking like this, that when people have, like, really harsh reactions to it, I wish I could find them, give them a hug, and say, hey. You should figure out what happened in your in your life that you think that that this was your response to this.
Like like, because I'm not a bad person or I wasn't making that girl uncomfortable. As a matter of fact, here's a long letter from her about how much she enjoyed that conversation that I didn't ask her for. She prompt she sent to me on her own. And, like and or, like, he talks over people. Like, there's an I have a review today.
I put it up on Instagram. It's like it's like the diabetes pro tip series is excellent. It's full of great information. Jenny Smith is like she lends, like, such a, like, a blah blah blah to it. It's awesome.
The host cuts people off. I've known Jenny for so long. If you ask Jenny, does Scott cut you off when you're talking? She'd say, no. I don't know what you're talking about.
So what, like, what did that person hear? Like, who cut her off or him off in their life that made them feel like that? Like and that's the I don't know. It's interesting to be able to, like, try to see people from in ways that you don't normally get to in real life. Because in real life, nobody's giving you a review of your conversation with them.
Thank god.
Oh my god. Thank god. Are you kidding me? Can you imagine at the at the end of every personal interaction, you got reviews from people?
Oh my gosh. I would never leave the house. I wouldn't I would go walk barefoot in the woods all the time.
I gotta ask you a question. You said earlier, I'm not on social media because it's like, you said something like I'm it's stronger than me or, like what what what is your reaction to it that that you feel like that?
Why she isn’t on social media1:33:02
Couple things. It hijacks my attention. Right? So you you go on Instagram to check one thing, and then twenty minutes later, you're like, woah. What happened?
Mhmm. That wasn't intentional. Like, it's, like, literally hijacks the brain to suck you in or my my brain.
No. Yeah. For sure.
And that and I don't like that. I've always have an embarrassing quote in my high school yearbook. Like, if only there was more time, I could do so much more. You know?
Like like, watch people beat each other up in a parking lot. Yeah.
Yeah. That's just not nourishing or mean, life is so again, it kinda, like, ties back to the diabetes, I think. Like, every moment I feel like it's precious. And, I mean, I don't remember that all the time, but I I I don't like to I don't like to waste time. I hate sitting in traffic, and it's like social media is, like, really bad traffic for my brain.
And so and then secondly, you know, I have family members who have different, you know, maybe politics and, values and things like that. Probably about I don't know. I don't remember how long ago it was before the pandemic, around 2016, probably. I got, what is the word? Trolled, by my stepbrother, and I found my even just remembering it, Scott, like, can feel in my body my heart starting to race a little bit more.
I feel, like, some heat and some Mhmm. Discomfort rising, and, like, it it hijacked me and I reacted and I didn't like how I don't even remember what I said. You know, it was about something political and really irrelevant. And, I got off that and I was telling my husband what happened, and and he just kinda smiled. He goes, yeah.
I trolled you. And I was like, oh, oh, that's what that is. Yeah. And I immediately got off, and I haven't been on Facebook since then because I didn't like what happened to me really. Like, it just it it totally took over
Yeah.
My brain and my being. And I'm like, if I can do that so easily, like, so quickly, like, that's not mm-mm. I can't be it's like a a drug or something that I had a big bad reaction to.
I just had a conversation yesterday with somebody who I really liked, and, and I've met in person and really liked. But she's not but. She makes TikToks about type one diabetes. And and I said I'm I was telling her, like, I'm a little disturbed that, like, that there's so much diabetes content that's trying to hijack the way the platforms work Because I I'm just listen. I'm I'm snobby about it.
Like, I I would like you to always be trying to help people or or putting something valuable out into the world. And I know that that's not a thing that the the algorithm promotes. So it's also our brains don't, go, oh, look. Here's something incredibly interesting and valuable for me. I'll sit and watch this instead.
Like, you you scroll past it pretty quickly. Right? So so even as that person's talking about, like, well, you know, you try to take clickbaity things and turn them into value and, like and I spend too much time on this and my she said my attention span is too short. I I need to fix that. I just had a baby.
I don't wanna raise my baby in a world of, like, short attention span. But then the content is still like, well, this is what the algorithm wants. This is how we do it. And and it I don't know if I'm just older. I sound like an old man telling you to get off your my lawn or whatever.
Like but it's this is not okay.
Yeah. I agree.
Yeah. And and you really I mean, you're listening to a person say, I know this is wrong. I don't want this for me. I don't want this for my kid, but this is how it is. And my thought is, no.
It's not. It we're letting it be that way.
Right. We do not have to do that. I agree totally.
Yeah. This is
I heard of
yeah. Go Go ahead. I'm sorry. You heard what?
Oh, I just I heard a podcast. I I love podcasts, and, it's so so fun to be here. I was listening to one, functional medicine doctor who who really gave me comfort, and he said, I am not on social media, and you don't have to be. It's a lie that in order to have a business that you have to be on social media. And that was, like, the one authority voice that that, like, affirmed my position, I needed that comfort.
You know? I just it was helpful. It kind of helped shore up, you know, what what I felt instinctively. Like, I'm I really am I'm very concerned about where technology is going and, how it's taking us away from what I think makes us most human and taking us away from from each other and ourselves. And so and I know you some people can do it skillfully, and I'm not bashing technology.
Like, I I mean, I'm wearing a tandem and a and a Dexter Libre right now.
You know
what I mean? I'm, like, about going on to the twist. I love technology when it's helpful, when it's skillful, when it makes things better. And, yeah. It's I don't
I've just been alive long enough now. Like, I I I don't know how you feel, but, like, this last ten years, I'm, like, finally an adult. You know what I mean? Like, I I I I finally have, like, enough. And and I'm actually glad you know, I I I I when I was growing up, I used to say, like, oh, there's so much, like, wisdom in those older people, but they're, like, sitting in a chair, like, oh my god.
And, like, now, like, in our generation, like I mean, look, I'm 55. I feel like I'm 20. And, like, I don't have like, I look back at photos of my parents when they were 55 or my mother and father-in-law, like or, like, they're they look like they're 70 now.
Yeah. We're looking better.
Yeah. Like and I'm like I'm like, maybe, like, people our age are gonna be able to stay in the game a little longer to, like, maybe spread out. So, like, it felt it feels like you spend your whole life absorbing wisdom. And right when you've got it, your brain slows down. You have no ability to, like, regurgitate
it and tell anybody about it.
And so I'm like, maybe this generation will be, like, the first generation of people who, like, are able to, like, gather some wisdom and stay relevant long enough to reshare it. And and I and I don't like, I'm I don't anoint myself with things. Like, I'm just there's things I try to do in the world, and I am gonna bang on this pot for a while until Mhmm. Somebody, like, I guess, listens. Nothing that's happening on social media is real.
Mhmm. It's it's it's is literally, like, empty calories, filler for your life, whatever. However you wanna think about it, I don't possibly care. Right? Like, it's if you if you got rid of it right now, you'd be fine.
And and and all we're doing it's like you're you're the grist in the gristmill. And and if it here's one way I I hope that people will think about it. Facebook, as an example, like, talking about taking technology and doing something good with it. I have a Facebook group that today has 86,000 active members in it, And it's a support group for people with type one diabetes. And if you go look at how it works, it works awesome.
It is fantastic for the people that are in there. They love it. It gains usually about a 150 new people every three days. And it just keeps building and building, and it's wonderful. It's a great use of technology.
More specifically, it's a great use of the Facebook platform.
Sure.
But Facebook started as a community platform. It's not that anymore. Right? It's it's an AI company that sells ads. That's what Meta is now.
It's Meta is an AI company that sells ads. And so if if you can still find I'm still finding a way to use their offering for good. But if you're in Facebook, their goal is to keep you in Facebook so that you can be served more ads So that when you click on their ad, you buy the thing. I was I was talking to an audio consultant the other day, and we were talking about something completely just, you know, about technical about making the podcast. And I looked at and we were on video, and I said to him, I was like, hey, man.
I was like, where'd you get those headphones at? And he answered me. And a day later, I was served an ad for these very obscure headphones that he was wearing.
Oh my gosh. See, isn't that so creepy?
Yeah. And I'm not talking about headphones like the ones you all know about. I'm talking about, like, audio engineer headphones that, like, nobody in the world knows exists.
And and your AI was listening to you.
There there it was. Yeah. An ad for those very obscure obscure headphones. Headphones. Yeah.
I don't need them, by the way. He told me I don't need them. And even when it popped up in front of me, my first thought was like, oh, those there's those headphones. Like, I get like
It's not about what we need.
No. It's never about what we need.
Luckily for me, Heather, I grew up broke. I tell my wife all the time that somebody calls the house to sell us something. I I pick up the phone, and I listen to for a half second, I go, listen. If I needed that, I would know. I don't need you to tell me what I need.
Okay? I'm aware of what I need already. And and so like anyway, when I see like, yes, we want to reach more people with diabetes, but the way that my podcast has been thriving for all these years is the way that things have worked since the beginning of time. It's called word-of-mouth. Mhmm.
When something actually helps somebody, they tell someone else and that's how you get more people. You don't get as many as you want. You're not gonna be rich from it. It's not gonna be some overnight success. You're not gonna go viral.
Like, it but it'll reach the people it's gonna reach, and it'll help the people that it was meant to help. And look at me now. I'm a hippie.
Are you wearing shoes?
I'm not currently wearing shoes. Get
outside and walk on the grass.
I am I am barefoot. I Heather, if I told you where I was right now, you'd laugh at me. But, I am Where
are you?
I'm in my office surrounded by a number of, like, reptiles in giant cages.
Oh, yeah. You're into reptiles. Yeah. That's so cool.
It's just there's plants around me and living things and me in here without my shoes on.
So It takes a hippie to know a hippie.
I'm watching these, like, four little lizards run around and have, like, the nicest little life in there. And all I'm thinking is, like, oh, I'm gonna go give them a cricket to eat after I'm done. And yeah. That's so
That's I so great. I love that visual. That is so fantastic.
My kids got older, and I had nothing to nourish anymore.
Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I get it.
I needed something to keep alive so that I felt valuable on the planet. Alright. Anyway, you were really awesome. I appreciate you doing this with me. It's a it's a nice this couldn't have possibly gone the way you expected it to, did it?
I I you know what, Scott? Truly, I was like, I have no idea what to expect. I am going in there with curiosity. And, yeah, with curiosity and compassion for both
of us because when you're in
a new interaction, you know, nobody knows. There's just so much uncertainty. But what I did know about you was that you're very conversational and very curious and very observant. So I had a little heads up. I knew something about you, and you didn't know much about me, but that doesn't that's how you roll.
Oh, have
you ever
met in person?
No. I don't.
No. No. Okay. Do you ever do go to the things? I started going to the things this year.
Very cool. Yeah. I think which things I because I do. I have I mean, in I've been in and out of the professional diabetes world, you know, for twenty five years. So sometimes I'm like, I was at New Orleans for the big diabetes educator thing a couple of years ago with Sam and Peter from the Sangha.
We did a really nice talk for diabetes educators on this topic, you know, mindfulness for the educators because, I mean, gosh, Scott, we could do a whole other podcast about how our healthcare system is so strained and our providers need compassion, self compassion tools to ground themselves and stay connected to us, right, with, an open and loving heart and all the information they have. But that's another
Well, they they burn out they burn out just like the patients do.
Totally. Of course. I mean, there's there's so much strain and so much suffering. So, anyway, we did that. That was the last time I was at one of the big things.
Well, I guess I went to TCYD last last summer. So which things are you going to do this year?
I did ADA this year.
Oh, good.
I went to France.
What would you do there?
I actually I kinda partnered with so here's how this started is that last year so I previous to last year, I only do something called Touch by Type one in Orlando. I used to do a lot of JDRF speaking, but I stopped doing that. And I mainly, when I do my speaking, do I go to touch by type one. But, anyway, I went to Friends for Life last year for the first time, and it turned into a thing where I had this experience that I it's gonna sound like I'm bragging. But I I got there and realized, like, I the when I when I left, I thought, oh, I'm gonna go meet new people and tell them about the podcast.
And instead, what I found was a room with 2,000 people in it and three quarters of them already listened to my podcast. And so it was not a it was not a business boon for me, but it was a really it was an interesting experience to watch everybody be together. And, and it turned into, like, just kind of, like, a lovely meet and greet for me. But because I was I I don't know how to put this exact I'm, like, catnip at that thing. And so Mhmm.
And so somebody who makes the thin you know, sugar pixel, that little, like, screen that has your blood sugar on it, like, shakes your bed if you get too low or something. Like, it's a it's
just I a don't know. I've heard you talk about it on the podcast, but I don't know what it is.
So the the gentleman that makes the sugar pixel, his name's John. And he was there, and he's an astute guy. And he looked over, and he goes, that guy is like like, he's really drawing a crowd. And so, like, he's like, would you come with me and, like, do a giveaway? Like and, like, promote, like, promote the podcast and, like, and everything.
I was like, whatever, man. I was like, I'll I'll hang out with you. Like you know? So we did this little, like, I don't know, parade around the hall in Friends for Life, and then we went back in the corner. And we must have had, I'm gonna guess, 300 people with us at that point.
And, like, he gave away a couple SugarPixels. And when it was over, he said to me, would you like to come next year and be at my booth for this stuff? And I was like, sure? So I went to ADA with him this year, and, basically, I'm the pretty girl that leans on the car at the SugarPixel booth. Visually, it doesn't work out that way, but functionally, it works that way.
And and so we did that, and we went to Friends for Life. Next week, I'm going to ADCES in Ohio with John. And they're actually they're I'm good I'm very interested in talking to clinicians about how I think the podcast works. I've just I'm in the middle of doing the survey with listeners to find out about their, you know, their their takeaways from from listening and stuff like that, and probably we'll share that with some people on there. And then I think I do touch by type one in September.
And back in June, I took about a 100 listeners on a cruise. So I did a lot this year after, like, the year before. Like, I was like, I went to Friends for Life and this year I did like a thousand things. So I'm trying to figure out where the balance is around that. Mhmm.
And so I'm working that through right now. So Yeah. It's still interesting. It's interesting to do. It's it's really nice to I'm sure you have the same feeling when you meet people in person.
But for me, it's a little different. I don't have type one. And so to watch people with type one come together and so instantly mesh together and become friendly and calm and relaxed and comfortable was a a really, a a kind of a wonderful learning experience for me. You know?
Does your daughter go to the things?
She doesn't. She's gonna come to, I think she's gonna come to touch by type one with me this year. I shouldn't say that out loud. But because she'll be like, oh, no. She's like, everybody's gonna be around.
Like, no. It'll be fine. Like, she's have a thing at touch by type one I need a little help with. And so I was like, can you come and, like, stand at my table when I can't be at my table? And she's like, okay.
I said, you can lay in the sun the day we get there. And she goes, oh, okay.
That's the incentive.
I was like, I'll bring oh, I said, we'll go in a day earlier. You can you can lay by the pool. And she's like, well, that doesn't sound bad. And I was like, alright. I said, does the rest of it sound bad?
She goes, no. But it's, like, inside. And I was like, I know. So Mhmm. Yeah.
So we're gonna do that. It's nice. We she and I made an Omnipod commercial together this year too.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. Which was
Where where do we find that commercial?
It's just on Omnipod social media.
So Well, so I won't ever see
it. Yeah. You're not gonna see it.
It's I'm never gonna see it.
But it was really, it was a nice experience because it was kind of the first, like, diabetes thing that wasn't about her diabetes that we ever did together.
Aw.
And so it was, like, a nice day we spent, like, you know, just doing the thing. It was it was it was really a nice experience.
That's really sweet.
Alright. That's really sweet.
Well, thanks again. I'll let you go back to I know this is way longer than you expected it to be, so I'll let you get back to your life.
Great.
Alright. Thanks so much. Hold on. It's nice
meet you.
You too.
Okay.
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