Scott Benner 1/18/23 Scott Benner 1/18/23

#827 This Is The Game

Patty's adopted child has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 827 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today, we're going to be speaking with Patty. She's the mother of some children, one of them is adopted, that adopted child happens to get type one diabetes. We start talking about that, and then something comes up, and Patty caught me on a strange day. So the conversation took a pretty wild left turn. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, or the caregiver of someone with type one and live in the United States, you can take a survey that will take you less than 10 minutes. And this survey is going to help people living with diabetes. You can find it at t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox is a great organization. I've done a couple of episodes with them if you want to know what they do, you know, head back and find their episode. But this this survey is easy. It's HIPAA compliant. It's anonymous, and it's really going to help T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is brought to you by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six and Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems. Find out more and get started today@dexcom.com forward slash Juicebox. Podcast is also sponsored today by U S med. US med is the place where we get our diabetes supplies. And so can you us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Call or go online and get started today.

Patty 2:17
My name is Patty and I am a mom of two kids. I have an eight year old and a three year old and my eight year old is my type one. She is eight years old going to be nine and she is my adopted child.

Scott Benner 2:30
Okay, so Patti, I've made it an error here. I have not brought my whiteboard on to the desk. Hold on. You're gonna hear some noise, I apologize. This is how my brain keeps up with what's happening because I'm getting older. Let me just, oh, I'm gonna erase a Frezza. So yes, there's an episode on the Frezza coming up. And all this other stuff here. And then we're gonna say Patti has two kids ones 81618133. This is why we write things down three. Which one's the adopted one with type one?

Patty 3:09
The eight year old?

Scott Benner 3:13
Did she have type one when you adopted her?

Patty 3:17
So no. We adopted her at birth. And I knew some medical history. I did. It is an open adoption. So I do have some sort of relationship with biological mom and biological family. But no, I wasn't made aware of any type one history or anything like that. When we adopted her, like I said at birth on the very first day, I was the first person to hold her. And 16 months 16 months later is when she was diagnosed with type one.

Scott Benner 3:50
Wow. That's crazy. How old were you at that time.

Patty 3:54
I'm 38. So we are what we consider a really old parents. We we struggled about 10 years trying to get pregnant. We did three cycles of IVF. We did all of the natural medicines, the Western, the Eastern, everything we could think of and nothing obviously turned out we had a couple of miscarriages. And then in our third going into our third IVF cycle was when we looked at each other and said, you know we want to have a family and it doesn't really matter how that happens. So we're ready. If this cycle doesn't take then we will look into adoption. So around that time Yeah, I we connected with an adoption lawyer and he walked us through the process and it was just a fast the fastest thing I mean faster than any fertility treatment we find with January and in March. I matched with a birth mom. And then and then my daughter was born in June so it was really super super fast, it was like six months of being what they call paper pregnant, which I really don't like the term. But anyway,

Scott Benner 5:08
how long did you try the rest of the stuff? How many rounds of IVF? Did you do?

Patty 5:12
It was three, we started when I was about 28. So it was a good 10 years of just not a, you're not getting any answers, just kind of going through the motions of all of the fertility treatments. And at the end of it, we were just told, you know, your embryos suck, you know, they're not really good. They're, you know, this one died off, you know, blah, blah, blah. And there wasn't anything that they could tell me that was going, that was off with my husband, there wasn't anything really wrong with me, it was just kind of luck of the draw. And, you know, we had a couple of good embryos that took but none of them that, you know, advanced far enough that they made a baby. So we were really frustrated, and then spent a lot of money going through this process. And we just said, you know, we missed it. We can't do this anymore. We want to have a family. We're getting older. And, and that's when we looked through looked at adoption, how old we really were.

Scott Benner 6:10
Oh, go ahead. No, I just want to know how old you are when you got married.

Patty 6:14
So I, we got married when I was 21. So I've known my husband, since we were 1314 years old. We have known each other for like, it seems like an eternity, honestly. And we're we're going to be celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary this year. And it's just it's been it's crazy. So we got married super young. And, and we traveled a lot before we wanted to have kids. And sometimes we think we waited too long, because we were just older when we started trying but whatever the case was, we just you know, that's where a young couple

Scott Benner 6:48
you certainly were. Wow, you probably all that time are so proud of yourself for not getting pregnant while you were young and having sex and now you realize that wasn't even going to happen. Fortunately, condoms wasted batty.

Patty 7:09
In my mind, I was just going to be able to stop birth control and say, Oh, it's time and it was just magically going to happen. That's really what was in my head. Like, all I had to do is just think it and it was gonna happen and I was so not even close to what was gonna happen. So

Scott Benner 7:25
can I ask you Can we talk about it for another second? Can I? I'd be interested to know. I mean, what does it feel like the the time being you realize like, I can't, like, I'm not going to have a baby like this like is it? What does it do to you kind of psychologically.

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Patty 12:19
It's really heavy. And you know, it's interesting because you know reaching out to you finally listening to your podcasts and all of those things, even though not directly related to adoption, but you know, just my daughter. It's been a lot and, and just recently, I think I've started to be able to talk about a little bit more because I'm sort of, in a way a private person, I don't really talk about my own personal life, I don't want to bring anybody down. I don't want to sit and cry and say, you know, fertility with infertility was really, really hard, you know, we couldn't get pregnant. But psychologically, it was it was really a lot. And I'm sure it caused a lot of issues in my marriage that came out in different ways. And really what we weren't talking about is just the frustration that we had of not getting pregnant, and everybody else around us getting pregnant. I mean, you know, every time we had a friend that announced that they were pregnant, I was super happy for them. But there was a part of you that is always sad is always sad that it's not you and that you're not getting celebrated. And when is it going to be my time and? Super, super hard? So yeah, yeah, I think

Scott Benner 13:28
I believe I understand. I mean, did it. Do you think that in hindsight, did it make your relationship stronger? Or did it mean it? I'm assuming it tested you a couple different ways? So or, or can you not look back on it and see it as anything positive?

Patty 13:43
Oh, I think it is. I think all of it is, for me, not to be cliche, but all of it was for a reason. I do think it makes us It made us stronger. Not just this but then diabetes and adoption and then now getting pregnant naturally with my son because it was a total shock and surprise, six years after Isabella was born. All of it, you know, was I guess those are just the layers of foundation that we needed to build a stronger marriage and that we look at each other and we're like, we're stuck with each other. We're not going anywhere. We have two kids, one with diabetes, you're not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere. So

Scott Benner 14:22
got what you wished for Patti? Congratulations.

Patty 14:28
All my dreams are coming.

Scott Benner 14:32
That is a perfectly spoken statement with the right inflection and tone from a person who's been married for 25 years. So I got what I asked for. Here we go. No one's leaving. If anyone's getting out of this it's gonna be me.

Patty 14:49
exactly know where we're stuck. We look at each other all the time. Every time we like had some sort of argument or chip. We're like, sorry, you know, we're gonna have to get over it and move on because there's no there's no going back. So we have

Scott Benner 14:59
time. On the similarities to where you married in 96. I got married in 9797. So I'm married in 96. I've been married for 25 years. My wife was 21 when we got married. Really? Yes, I'm adopted.

Patty 15:15
I knew that right.

Scott Benner 15:16
I mean, I think we're gonna find out soon that you live across the street from me if we keep talking long enough. So what? So

Patty 15:23
I have an idea of where you are. And I don't think we're anywhere close. I'm in Los Angeles, Southern California.

Scott Benner 15:29
I'm not there. Like the people have an idea of where I am just, I mean, you know what I like, whatever. That lady sent me those big pop ones. They were amazing. Actually, if you're listening, send more cakepops that I love. But it I mean, so I was, I wasn't adopted on day one. But I mean, it was very close. I think I was only alive a couple of weeks before my parents had me. There was the 70s. Like they, you know, I was probably living in a box outside of a firehouse or something like that, like who would know? And but it wasn't, it wasn't when my parents were like, in the system, looking for a baby. You know, I guess it was different the way it happened back then. So it's really crazy. Oh, did you? Oh, how Isabelle. Right? Is your is your daughter's name? Isabella Isabella. Isabella, did you tell her she was adopted? How early? Or does she not know?

Patty 16:27
Now she knows. She we've been trying at different stages of her life to just share the story as appropriate, as much as she can understand. So yes, she knows we have an agreement that are that we made through our adoption that we were going to keep, like I said, an open adoption. And we were going to try to establish a relationship with biological mom, they are not really near us. But we had said, pre COVID that we are going to try and visit each other every other year. That hasn't happened in a few years, because of COVID. The last time that she really saw that we saw each other was when she was one right before she was diagnosed. So she does know. And she's coming to the age right now where she's asking a lot of questions, a lot of the hard questions about you know, why, why this happened? You know, just the whole story. So we have to keep reminding her and telling her the story again, over and over. Um, it was very different when she was a baby, you know, it was very sweet. And oh, we chose you. And of course, that's the truth. But now she wants once real answers. And she's also asking about no extended family, like hurt their side of the family. She does have half siblings. So it's hard. It's a difficult thing. But I know. I mean, at least all the books tell me and everyone tells me that it's just better for her that she doesn't know as much information as I can give her as she gets older. So

Scott Benner 17:56
it's interesting the level of curiosity and how it vacillates because I never cared about any of that. It nearly never growing I'd never I've always known I'm adopted. I've never once thought about like who those other people may or may not be. I've never thought of my mom and dad is not my mom and dad. Even my parents got divorced. And I still I wasn't like, well, at least he wasn't my real dad. Like, I didn't have any of those feelings. You know, when we were first married. Kelly, my wife wanted to like medical information, she kind of she she gently suggested and insisted that we find out about my, my, my birth mother. And we were able to locate, but she was passed already. And and I got to speak though, I got to speak to one of her sisters for a few hours. And when I got off the phone, my wife's like, well, and I'm like, Well, hey, I'm never talking to those people again. And it was just not. It was not an uplifting experience for me. And, and and you know, so I learned a little bit, but the one thing like I don't think I'll ever forget is that that her sister said she regretted giving you up every day of her life. And I thought, oh, that's sad. And then, you know, like, and then but I didn't have that feeling of like, Oh, my mom is sad. I just thought like, I don't see her that way. So even just think yeah, I mean, I'm not unaware. I just like my parents. You know, they were there for me. They took care of me and they're my parents. Like I don't I don't really care. And can I tell you to I loved being adopted? Really? I I love this. I might have a streak in me about something but I loved not being attached to anybody's history. I loved I loved feeling like I was the like the beginning of it, and that I could decide if I was religious. Or if I was like everything like I got to figure it out and be who I wanted to be bomb myself without a bunch of people telling me, we do this on Sunday, or we do this at Christmas, or this is how it goes like I just I love that. I don't know. Gotcha.

Patty 20:09
i It's interesting that you that you kind of thought that you are? Well, you did that you had that freedom just because you weren't biologically attached to. Yeah, because I

Scott Benner 20:19
wasn't attached to those people either as like, I don't have to their bull crap either. Because like, they basically rented me long term. And so what I ended up doing through my life is I would identify people that I appreciated. And if they had certain aspects of their personality that I thought were really laudable, I kind of used that as my teaching. And I don't know if I've said this before, but I worked with this old man one time, and he was just such a hard worker. And that's all I really remember about him. He worked really hard. I worked with a guy who had a great sense of humor, and even when his life was painful, he was pleasant to be around. And, you know, and on and on. And as I met people like that, I would, I would identify and say, well, that's a, that's a trait that I would like to have, like, I think that's really and I sort of got the build myself out of spare parts. I feel like so

Patty 21:13
interesting. Yeah. I mean, I hope that Isabella, I mean, I would hope that she would grow up to I don't know, I actually really don't know I, but I hope for her, but I do every day have to work at just making sure that she knows she is loved, and even loved more. So just because I feel like you know, there is a whole family out there that chose this for her because they knew they could not take care of her. They knew at that moment that their situation was so dire that they needed, you know her to have the life that you know, that she should have. And I just hope that she realizes that one day. And I think going into the teenage years. I mean, we're like pre preteen right now that she can appreciate that one day, and I don't want to tell her that I just want her to come to that conclusion on our own.

Scott Benner 22:06
Everybody has to feel like some part of the gap like my I have my father's mother was the person I was closest with growing up. And she always had, like, she was just telling me to my face. She'd be like, Look, you're adopted, that's hard, you know, and so and so she could I always she tried harder with me, she was closer with me than she was with my with my other cousins who she was all related to by blood. Like she was she was very careful to, to support me even like in the 70s and 80s. When you wouldn't think like, you know, people, children were still feral back then you don't I mean, nobody cares. They're like, Listen, if it doesn't die, we did it. Like perfect. Yeah. So my grandmother was like that. And I was comforted by that I felt always the closest to her. And then from there, I just, I don't know, like, the one thing I would tell you. I'm gonna make you sad. I don't want to make you sad. But when, when things would happen in the house, where I grew up, my parents and later my brothers who much like you another thing we have in common, I guess my mom just suddenly could make babies after they adopted somebody. So that something would happen, it wouldn't matter what it was. And they would all have a similar reaction to it, or a thought about it, or, you know, a plan to move forward. And mine were always different. And so I was I just knew I was different than they were, huh. So I never felt the pressure to be like, Oh, they think this I have to think this to Interesting, interesting anyway, that's not why you're here.

Patty 23:49
No, I mean, I am a you know, I honestly, all of this is, I don't know it's coming of age. I'm having like this, this midlife crisis, maybe I have no idea but where all of a sudden I am wanting to talk about it. Like I said, I reached out to you. You know, it sounds so corny, but I keep thinking of this song, one of my favorite bands. And one of his lyrics is like, I have a scar I can certainly talk about and these are all like things I can finally talk about. I haven't talked about them to anyone really here to, to my best friends obviously. And and, you know, I talk about it sometimes to Scott, but he like loses patients really quickly. Like moving on. But you know, I just think that I am here for those reasons and obviously type one reasons but it feels good. It feels good to finally get it all out.

Scott Benner 24:39
I'm glad for you. And there's nobody better to tell than me. So because I mean who would you not tell but it's strange to listen to your ears. person you wouldn't know if you walked into them in a grocery store. You'd be like, Excuse me, keep on walking. So, what do you think made you want to start talking about it more

Patty 25:02
I think being in this pandemic and being so, you know, I guess all together all the time, and really watching Isabella's numbers all day long, and adjusting and doing all of the things that were frustrating me and like, I'm like, you know, I should just be a full time nurse, you know, how is the nurse when she goes back to school is going to be able to do all of this, I need to do better, because I'm not doing as good of a job as I want to be. And to be honest, I listened to your podcast, I think when Isabella was diagnosed back in 2014, I think it was just getting started. If I'm not mistaken, or no, or maybe you were some years into it. No, I

Scott Benner 25:43
started the I started in January of 2015. So you did okay, you might have even been on the blog earlier, it's possible,

Patty 25:51
I might have, I remember hearing about your blog. And I think I heard a couple episodes early on. But at that time, I was just so in this terrified state of, of everything you know, of what people talk about on your podcast all the time, just, you know, of her going too low of her, you know, dying in her sleep, I would ask her endocrinologist and say, Is she going to die in our sleep, am I going to wake up, and she's not going to be there, because that is what I'm terrified of. And it took me so long to not be so scared. And then being in the pandemic, and seeing all of this going on. So you know, just every single minute, I said, I have to do better. And that's when I started listening again to you. Because it took me a long time to get back to the podcast and really be able to take in the information and not be so scared.

Scott Benner 26:38
It was the span of time between you finding it and then actually being able to listen to it.

Patty 26:45
Finding at first when she was diagnosed, because I think I heard early on probably if you started in 2015, she got diagnosed in 2014. And I remember hearing about it first through her friend and to our endocrinologist office. So that was just maybe a year and a half into diagnosis. And then pandemic that was just a few years ago. So she's already with five. So she you know, we've been living with it from for five years. And that's when finally I think it started clicking for me and being able to adjust and you know, and mess with my settings and all of that really just motivated me to do a better job and start really focusing on what you were talking about what your guests were talking about. And starting to just take more of I mean just being less afraid. I was always afraid and I don't really understand

Scott Benner 27:41
Patti, you're going Hello Patti if you can hear me I cannot hear you well obviously the ads going here comes the music. But I'll put the actual music in here. We're gonna have to find Patty searching for Patty will be very back. She was trying to understand she's still on she's just not here petty petty petty, petty, petty, petty, petty petty. What the dealio I'm gonna have this COP this. And she's got you know what? I bet you're her headphone died. Patty. Patty cake, patty cake. Does everyone know that one? Right. But does patty cake patty cake, baker's man Bake me a cake as fast as you can. See, roll it. Pat it No kidding. That might be where the patty cake comes from. And mark it with the like, use your letter. I'll use my s. And then you put it in the oven for Paddy and me. Is that is that the thing you do with babies? I think I remember that. All right. Patty has been hit by a meteor. We'll be right back.

Patty 29:06
Oh my gosh.

Scott Benner 29:08
How do you when I was growing up? I lived thinking that California was going to fall into the ocean. And I thought could it have happened while I was recording with Patti. But no, you're here. You're so not sure what happened. But Hi. Hi. You said I'm so sorry. Be sorry. It was a perfect place to put the ads.

Patty 29:28
I figured I figured that you were gonna say Oh,

Scott Benner 29:32
then I went over patty cake. And I tried to remember that. And then then you're who you are again. So you were having a hard time. Understand and then you're gone.

Patty 29:44
Understanding just why I was so afraid for so long. And why I avoided listening to the podcast or any sort of advice that was not my doctors. I still don't quite understand why. But now I feel better. You know, I feel You know, her agencies is lowering. I'm just getting a better sense of everything. And now I'm like a daily listener all the time. And so it's just, it's, it's an odd thing that happened, I think just by being here, altogether, and just realizing that I wasn't doing a good enough job.

Scott Benner 30:19
So I love this story, because it gives me a ton of try to imagine that I started a thing in 2015, you found it. And it wasn't until 2020 That you're like, alright, I'll listen to it. And like, and I was still there, like, when you came back, you're like, the guy still there with the thing? That makes me happy. Because there, I mean, listen, I have no intention of stopping my podcast. But there are times where, you know, my life is very like, it's like content and numbers driven, right? Like, I need to see more downloads this week than I saw last week, I need to see more this month than I saw last month, like I have to keep it growing for business reasons where I can't keep it going, right. And then you have to keep the content fresh, and the conversations fresh, and the information needs to be strong and timely. And, and there are times where I'm like, like, the year will end and I'm like, I'm just gonna do it again. I guess like, like, you don't I mean, like, you're like, alright, I'll do it again. And it's daunting sometimes. But to think that, that it was there for you when you came back? I mean, honestly, you're talking and I thought like, this is all worth it just for Patty, like, yes.

Patty 31:32
Yeah, you've made my day. Thank you.

Scott Benner 31:34
Seriously, because you said earlier, like, Why did I just Why did I let myself be afraid for so long? There's, there's a ton of good reasons to be afraid. And it's not. I don't think it's that you stop being afraid. I think that it's you stop feeling the fear. Like you don't even like you know, it's still there. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like swimming, diabetes is sort of like swimming with sharks. Like, you know, like, I don't swim with sharks, I wouldn't get in the water, because I think I'm gonna get the water the sharks and eat me. But people do it constantly. They're aware of it, and they know how to manage it. And it's, and it works out and one of them lose an arm once in a while. But for the most part, it turns out, you can swim with sharks. And so, you know, diabetes is like, it's crazy, because I have a personal story that I want to tell you right now. But it's not ready to be in the public. And I'd literally have to trust you to never say anything to anybody for like six months. If you think you can do that. I'll keep talking. I can do it. All right, Patti. I'm not kidding. Okay. You and me until this episode comes out.

Patty 32:45
I promise. Okay. Okay. This past

Scott Benner 32:49
weekend. I can't believe I'm telling you this. I'm getting nervous. It will. So by the time people hear this, it will have been in the podcast somewhere else prior. Okay. But this past weekend, my daughter had her senior prom from high school on Saturday and my son had his college graduation on Sunday morning. It was literally one of the worst things that I thought had happened to me so far as a parent that my daughter couldn't come to my son's graduation. And we couldn't be home for her when she got home from her prom. Which was this all day event up early hair, makeup dresses, pictures, running around, go to the prom, do a red carpet, get on a bus go to the event, eat dance leave the event, they take the kids to some like locked down sport zone laser tag place. Overnight, they keep them there till four in the morning. To me this sounds like they are trying to keep them off of drugs, alcohol and sex. They were trying to exhaust them. My daughter gets home at five o'clock gets in the car comes home with her friends who are going to sleep at my house because we're not there. And we had been planning the whole time that somebody should be with her, you know, after a big day like that. And probably my wife and I stayed to do the red carpet. And we probably left our state around seven at night and drove three hours to where my son is. We got we went and found him saw him for an hour went to a hotel where all jacked up, couldn't fall asleep finally fell asleep at like two o'clock. At two o'clock. I took a screenshot of Arden's blood sugar because the 24 hours prior were so good. I actually thought to myself, This is amazing. Well, I go to sleep at two at three o'clock they decided to have french toast sticks. She Bolus for them pretty well. I mean, I didn't I didn't see her like in hindsight, do anything I wouldn't have done. Four o'clock, five o'clock, she actually spiked a little bit texted with us and we said hey, maybe you should have Bolus here and she looked at it and said now you know what this looks like. It's coming down. I'm not going to Bolus and about an hour and a half later we got a low alarm. And we woke up called Arden she drank a juice, or her blood sugar was not dangerously low as far as we could tell. We did everything we thought we were going, we would have done like if I was there, I did everything. The only thing that I wasn't aware of was the meal at 3am. Okay. A half an hour later, I wake up seven o'clock, my son sends us text. Hey, I got we got your great seats. I got shade blah, blah, blah. Super excited. I get up I go to the bathroom. I standing in the bathroom in the Holiday Inn Express Patti, naked. No one picture that, okay. I'm looking looking for my toothbrush and you know, trying to figure out everything I'm about to do. And I think to myself, let me look at Arden's blood sugar one more time before I get in the shower. And artists Dexcom indicated that she was low l o w. I looked at the graph, and the graph had been steadily low, since she drank the juice. And I thought that's not good. And I picked the phone up and I called her and she answered the same way she's ever answered me waking up from asleep. She's like, hello, like very like that. And I'm like, Hey, Arden, you're pretty low, still, let's do another juice. And then she pauses and goes, I can't. And I'm like, No, it's right. Next year, we set it all up where you're sleeping. And she goes, and she goes, I can't. And in that moment I thought Arden's about to have a seizure. Oh my god given me the chills and I was like, Arden you're gonna have a seizure. Get up find juice right now y'all for the girls. And she's like, she goes, I'm jumping. And her vision was going in and out.

Patty 36:47
Oh my god. So

Scott Benner 36:50
I don't know if she said skipping or jumping. I'm not sure I think jumping maybe. And and then I was that was it. I was like, okay, she's those girls aren't awake. Arden can't help herself. And I started yelling into the phone, art and you're having a seizure, drink a juice art and you're having a seizure drink a juice call for the girls yell Nadia's name y'all lives named say Sondra and she's like, I can't I can't, I can't and then she was gone. And then, just as that happened, I heard her friend naughtiest voice she's like, I'm here. What do I do? And I said, um, like, go get the glucagon. So she went to get the the G voc hypo pen she got that brought it back and I said, Nadia, let's try one time with juice before we give her the glucagon. I was like, Can she drink a juice? And the other I heard another voice say I have a juice and like they. They said she's drinking it. And I was like, okay, good. Good. Good, right. So I don't know what's happening. I can't see anything. And so I'm just like she's drinking it. Yeah. And then she starts to come back a little bit. And I said, As soon as she can just hammer that juice down, like Have her drink at all. So I find out later subsequently, hours and hours later, she couldn't drink the juice. They were squirting it in her mouth like a little fire. Yeah, she was had I known that I would have gone right to the glucagon. But she was she was so she absorbed enough of it through her cheeks that it brought her back. I don't think that this part of the incident lasted more than two minutes. But I do believe she may have been lower than the CGM said probably for a couple hours. And so they get her they get her around, she hammers down some juice. She I said, you know, we need to put something in her stomach. It's gonna stay there. Like just go get her a piece of bread. She's not going to want to eat. She you know, she ate the bread. She had a couple of gummy bears that we have around the house that hit her really hard. And we finally got her up into the 60s, I taught the girls how to test her blood sugar over the phone. And then they kept testing and verifying. And then I stopped. And I was like, I have to go to my son's graduation. Like I'm still naked in the Holiday Inn Express. My wife was sleeping still like I drew the short straw on taking the first shower in the morning. And so I walked out into the hotel and Kelly goes, What are you yelling at? And I said, Arjun just had a seizure. I stopped it. And she snapped her hops up. She's like, What am I She's okay. And I was like, but I gotta get in the shower. We're going to be late. So I showered real quickly called the girls back kept talking to them. They were amazing. These girls were just stunning and how they handled everything. Arden was joking again a couple minutes later, she immediately sent her one of her teachers an email and said, Hey, I just had a seizure. Can I get out of my homework on Monday because I don't want to be able to do it today. She later realized she just told me like 12 hours later, at the moment, she thought she was being responsible. And then they couldn't sleep. Right? They were they stayed so now they're up for 36 hours. We don't get home for like 12 hours after this happened. And you know they're they're good Arden Still, she's shocked still but she's she's okay. She's bolusing for her food she put on the pod five on the Hill for the first time the night after that happened like she's not daunted. She's still a little shocked, but she's not. She's not daunted. We had a long conversation about it. I talked to her the entire ride home for like two hours. And she said something. I was so thoughtful about diabetes. She said, um, oh, and I don't use these words around her, which is really interesting. Very often. She goes, I know I do the right thing. She's like, I'm not worried about what I just because there were just so many new variables that day. I think that's what got me. And then I was like, yeah, so I told her I thought we were she probably had a ton of adrenaline. And we were doing great all day. Like, I swear to God, her blood sugar was just terrific all day. And the adrenaline was proud. So we probably too much activity and heat. And then, but the adrenaline was making the insulin look like it was working well, I guess. And then I think she either should have not Bolus for the french toast sticks. Or we could have 10 things down. But even looking back, she was on loop at that point. And the loop had taken her basil away for hours before this happened. Like it was trying. It was trying. And I put I put a juice and on top of that. Now why do I tell you this here in this episode, Patty, when I had zero expectation about talking about? This is why

Patty 41:31
you're ready. Do you want me to tell you?

Scott Benner 41:33
You tell me why you think I told you and then I'll tell you if you if you're right.

Patty 41:38
Because we're never not afraid. But

Scott Benner 41:40
how am I today? You're fine. I'm fine. I am not scared. Not scared. I am not scared. Arden is going to college the way she was supposed to. Nothing has changed. Arden has type one diabetes, she uses manmade insulin. And this part of the game. Yeah, it just is. And if you can't see that, you're gonna be scared your whole life. So well.

Patty 42:09
My takeaway is that she's not Isabelle is not going to prom and just letting you know prom. No problem for you.

Scott Benner 42:18
Honestly, it would have been better if hard just had sex and drugs after the prom.

Patty 42:25
But french toast sticks.

Scott Benner 42:27
Evil Yeah. I was about to say something completely inappropriate. But yeah. But yeah, the french toast sticks ended up being the problem. It's just, you know, look, I'm not gonna tell you. I wasn't scared. But I did in that moment. Exactly what I would tell you guys to do. I thought about it like an astronaut. Like, there's a line of things in front of me trying to kill me. I'm going to stop the one that's as close as it is. And then I'm going to move to the next one. And I'm going to speak slowly and calmly. Because if I panic right now, something bad's gonna happen to her. And if that girl wouldn't have got up and said, I'm here, what do I do? I was already moving towards my wife's phone to call 911. I was already calling a neighbor. I knew what I was going to do if it went one way. And I knew what I was going to do if it went another way. And I know that because I make this podcast and I have the conversations that you told me listening to are so valuable. I knew what to do when it happened. I'm going to tell you that when Arden was in getting ready to start kindergarten, I know I've told this story before but I went to the school to start prepping them before she even got there. And they laughed at me in the office and said, She's not even a student yet. I said, well, it doesn't matter. It's not that easy. You need to understand it before she gets here. And I told them the same thing year after year, that being ready doesn't mean being ready doesn't mean that you're going to stop a problem. Being ready means that you're going to know what to do when a problem arises. Because a problem is going to arise. And it is going to come when you don't expect it. We had been practicing for this for months. Arden stayed for days by herself in our house recently took care of herself beautifully. Not a problem. I don't looking back, she didn't do anything wrong. At that prom. It's just there was so much activity that it just it looked like it was holding up and then probably just like we talked about, she went to sleep and her body relaxed and all that excitement went away. And there was nothing there to hold up that that that insulin that was in there. So I'm going to tell you I'm not lying. I am not afraid today. But I am not afraid because I decided not to be afraid. Not because there's nothing scary. Of course.

Patty 44:49
I think that I'm coming too slowly to that realization or understanding of, of not being as afraid as I used to be just that it would You know, in the frozen state, because I don't want fear to freeze me and like, I've had situations where I've had, you know, she's been under the care of others. And other people have made mistakes, like, you know, given her nine units of insulin versus nine grams of carbs. And I've been in those situations and they have frozen me, I was frozen after she was diagnosed, like I couldn't function. I, it's, I spent about two to three weeks just lying on the floor, like literally lying on the floor next to him just crying. And I don't want to be there anymore. And I think I'm not there anymore. I think, obviously. And so I, that's why listening to your podcast, and just talking about all these things. And talking about it too, with other people and other friends, has made me better and has made me more confident. We're trying to get we're on the Omnipod dash ourselves. And we're, I've been fighting and arguing and we're getting upset with people trying to figure out why we're not on the Omnipod five yet. But I know I'm it's it's pretty new. So we're just waiting. But yeah, it's definitely helped. And hearing that story, it makes me makes me sad, in a way it makes me it gives me chills in the sense that I don't, you know, I don't obviously want that to happen, but knowing that you can't absolutely plan for every single thing in life, and things are gonna happen. And you just have to be proactive. And

Scott Benner 46:26
how do you heard me cry on this podcast plenty of times. What I just described you happened 48 hours ago, I'm not crying. Like being alive is not for the faint of heart. You know, and, and having diabetes and using manmade insulin. It's, it is what it is. I mean, you all have to imagine I've made I mean, 700 episodes of this podcast, you don't think in my personal life, I don't think God someday something's going to happen to Arden. And I'm the guy with the podcast. And it happens that my kid, like, you know what I mean? Like, I can't stop it any more than, than any of you can. And it's going to happen. Like if you really step back and look at the confluence of things that had to happen, because if Arden would have just come home, and I was here, we would have talked, I would have tested her blood sugar, we would have looked at a couple of things, we would have made some adjustments. If she started getting low, I would have been there. And that wouldn't have happened. Right? But it just, I mean, really think about it. I had two children five years apart, and their college graduation and high school prom fell within the same 12 hours in two different states. How does that happen? The like, it's just, but she had friends here that was planned. She was sleeping next to juice boxes that was planned. All of those girls know how to use the diaper pen that was planned. Right? Like, all of that was planned. When I was faced with that problem. Everything that I said came right from the like, right from the stem of my brain. I didn't have to think of any of it. I knew what to do. And I knew in that moment that panicking is the only thing I could do wrong. Because I know the steps. Just take the steps do the thing. It's going to be okay. And by the way, she was talking 30 seconds before this. We're going to get her back out of this again, like we are she already had I could I was standing there thinking she had a juice an hour ago, she drifted down really slow. She's probably just lower than we thought she was. There's a juice in there, we're going to put in another juice. This is going to be okay. Now let me tell you, it ruined the next. You know, the next two days of her life, she still got a headache, like a blow kind of background headache from it. She's a little nauseous still. It's just she was had a prolonged low. And this is i Jenny and I spoke about it Jenny's the only person who really knows. And you know, I've checked in Jenny's like, this is all incredibly normal like for afterwards and she's like it'll pass eventually. And Arden's okay. And she this is her reality. She shouldn't not know, just like your daughter should know she's adopted. You know what I mean? Like, you don't? Listen, I'm really good at diabetes. And I'm slowly passing off what I know, to Artem. But it's, she knows half of it. And I told her later I said, Listen, you gotta we have to sit down and I gotta give you the rest of it. I said, there are things that happen overnight, when I was sleeping, that if I was there, I would have known to do that you have no idea to even think about. And you know, it's and you're gonna learn it. But if I expect her to look like I'm 50 Batty, how much longer can I go? You know what I mean? So even if i You're a lovely, even if I make it to 70 I'm going to be useless. All right. And I mean, my mom's 79 Be honest with you in 10 years, you know, generally added much to the party. And so like, you know, even if that happens to me, right art is only going to be 38 When I'm 70. So if I, if I want Arden to be 70, then she's going to have to have these experiences so she knows how to handle them. Yeah, and this is an experience nobody wants to have. And I'm not saying everyone's ever gonna have it. But more of you that are listening than not are going to experience a scary low blood sugar at some point. And Medically speaking, if that's all that happened to heart, and I said to ordinary, you know, the medical community calls, what happened to you a low blood glucose event and she goes, it felt like a seizure. She's a little banged up, she kept she was running her elbow into a sofa, and it's so hard that it rubbed her elbow raw. She had sparkles like like diamonds in her nails. And she's like, scratched her forearms with her own, like the top. But other than that, she's okay. And I'll tell you what, last night, she's like, Can we sit down and look at my prom pictures? And I was like, Yeah, sure. She's like, Okay, so the only thing that can go wrong is, you know, dying. If you don't die, then everything else is manageable. Anyway, all right, Patti. Let's let's read dirt. You said Fear and you screwed up your own episode. So that's not not my fault. It's your fault.

Patty 51:21
Yeah, and you know what, I'm so afraid that it's gonna happen again. Because my this laptop is like it just like, what happened is it just all of a sudden, everything went away. And I don't know what what it's doing. It's like rebooting itself. I have no idea. Anyway,

Scott Benner 51:33
we're gonna be okay. So on top of all this fun for Isabella? She has she has ADHD.

Patty 51:40
Yes, she does. So she was diagnosed officially, when she was five right before the pandemic. And she was also diagnosed with odd, which is oppositional defiant disorder. So that's lovely. And, you know, I just heard one of your podcast episodes with a mom on there that she was saying how her daughter was very had a very spicy attitude sounds just like Isabella. But it was related to blood sugars. And I thought that that was the case, you know, because early on, we saw this attitude, even like, get one. And I thought, Oh, well, we're gonna get blood sugar's under control, everything's gonna be fine. It wasn't the spicy attitude and the defiant attitude, the very, the all the personality traits that you really, really hope are going to serve her later in life are still there. But yeah, she was diagnosed with ADHD. And so we went, we shut down obviously, for COVID. And so she was home all day long every day. And so we saw the whole range of her attitude and behavior. She's now on medication for ADHD. And she's gone back to school, she went back to school in December. And things at school are really great. I think the medication really helps her focus, and you know, and comply and she listens to her teacher. But once she's home, it's a whole different ballgame. It's like all of that release of, I don't know, emotions, and behavior is all saved for us. So we're really lucky.

Scott Benner 53:17
Did you ever Google this anti an attention deficit hyperactivity disorder has been associated with several autoimmune diseases?

Patty 53:25
I think I have. Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:28
I It's incredibly interesting. And it was the other odd,

Patty 53:32
odd is Oppositional Defiant Disorder, disorder, or Yeah.

Scott Benner 53:38
And she's doing better now with the medication.

Patty 53:41
She's doing better with her ADHD. So the ADHD just helps her focus and not be so distracted, because she has a really hard time. Like, she's the type of kid that you know, you see a gnat, flying around buzzing around and you will focus on the net, or, you know, the PISA dust or whatever the case may be. So I knew it was going to affect her school, because you need to be able to focus and, you know, pay attention. So that has really, really helped. But it doesn't help her with her behavior at home. It doesn't help us help us at all with like, her being more compliant are listening. And that is, I think that right now is the most challenging piece in parenthood right now with her age is just that I really want her to be a little bit more compliant in order for her to learn some things that she needs to know about diabetes, because she's very dependent on this. And I know that at her age, she should start being a little bit more independent, like I should be able to, like I think one of your earlier episodes was how you texted art in second grade. I think it was second grade, or third grade.

Scott Benner 54:44
Last year, second grade is the last time Arden was ever to the nurse because I figured out Yeah, yeah. So

Patty 54:49
Isabel is in second grade going into third in August and I just don't think she's ready. Like she I can't even imagine her being so focused enough for that. long enough to be able to text her or do something about her diabetes, or take a juice or, you know, or even dose herself. She's not at that point. And I really wish she was. But I know it has a lot to do with this. Outside stuff, the ADHD, the odd and I think it'll just take her a little bit longer.

Scott Benner 55:17
To ask a hard question. Do you find that it's difficult to be demanding of her because she's adopted?

Patty 55:26
No, I don't, I feel what the difference between the, in my mind about her being my adopted child is that I feel a tremendous sense of responsibility. Being a parent and doing right by her and just taking care of her like health, and being on top of all of this ADHD thing, not so much being like tough on her being, you know, discipline, because I think we're, we're pretty spot on with that. But it's just, I think it's always there's always something that I'm running up against that I feel like, I'm not doing a good enough job with just being an overall parent. And I have just this big guilt and feeling of just responsibility. And it weighs heavy on me. And you know, my other my son is only three, but he's has a very different personality. So I feel and I don't feel that sense of responsibility with him as much. I don't know why. But with her, I think that's what really affects me or parenting overall, but not not so much that I can't be hard on it. Because we are we really try to parent as much as possible.

Scott Benner 56:31
Let's so I you know, it's funny, I think back to something I said earlier about, you know, when when they're not yours, like from blood. Like you don't realize that there's things that like, you know, what I mean? Like there's things that you do that your son probably just jives with, because he's wired more similarly to you than not. And so you're almost talking to, it's almost like when I don't mean it like this, but it's almost like when you have something running very smooth in your house, then one of your kids friends comes in, and it's kind of a mess. And you're like, I wonder why that kid doesn't react to me the way my kids do. And it's because right there, they see things differently, you know, thank you. Yeah, but I think it's, I think you're doing it sounds like you're doing a terrific job. And I think you're doing what you can do, which is, you know, see, see the shortcomings address them. Just try to learn slowly. I mean, the odd is got to make everything more difficult, I would imagine.

Patty 57:27
Oh, it's yeah, there's some times in this house where things are going like kind of out of control crazy, just because it could be as simple as you know, just putting on like, a Dexcom, or, you know, putting on a new pod. And it's just like, if she flies off the handle, and I'm like, Oh my God, how long have we been doing this? Ella? We have been on Omni we've been on the pumps. And she was four. You know, and she's been on Dexcom since she was three it's it's like an every. This happens all the time. And you can't fight us on this all the time. But it's the same and it's it's it's really difficult. I think it does. It does create a real parent challenge. I had my husband and I are like we're parents. We're parenting on steroids. Not only is like do we have type one diabetes, we have all of this on top of it. And now we're bringing this whole like question about adoption into this pre teenage and then she's going to be a teenager. I mean, I don't know what's gonna happen.

Scott Benner 58:21
I know it's just gonna try as long as you can tell you can't you can walk right the Pacific Ocean if you

Patty 58:30
go back. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Benner 58:34
If I can swim to Hawaii and go on a vacation. If I can. I can. Oh, by the way, apparently, the sharks won't bother you. So you'll be fine.

Patty 58:40
We just wanted to show like an episode of I think it was Ozark. She checked herself in to a mental institution to get some sleep. And I was like, Wow, that sounds like an amazing thing to go do

Scott Benner 58:55
about where I'm at right now. It's about by the way, spoilers if you haven't watched those. It's

Patty 59:01
it's not really a spoiler. It's just part of them. I'm sorry. But you're not going to air this for a while. So hopefully by then everybody's watched it.

Scott Benner 59:08
Yeah. If you haven't seen Ozark by the time this comes out, then shame on you.

Patty 59:12
Exactly. Exactly.

Scott Benner 59:15
So now I'm sorry. So it also has hyperlipidemia

Patty 59:19
Oh, yeah. Yeah, she does. So I think it was about four or one of her routine endo checks where they do all the bloodwork. She came back with high cholesterol. So we kind of investigated and you know, when they had this run more tests, and they just attributed to genetics. They just said that some kids just have genetically higher lipids or whatever cholesterol counts. So she said she sees a cardiologist and we just had our cardiologists appointment about three weeks ago. You know, and her numbers are steady her triglycerides, which I think are the bad ones, but are highly variable. are lower. And they've, you know, they've lowered significantly, which is great news. But they also, like I said, are highly variable. So they could, it just depends on, you know, the time of day that she tested if she fasted eight hours versus 10 hours or whatnot. So the doctor doesn't want to put her on medication right now she's a little bit young for it. But in the future, we could be looking at something like that to just lower her overall cholesterol because they're concerned about heart problems, heart issues, especially with kids with type one, type one. And the cardiologist just mentioned that, obviously, the lower a wincy that we can get, the better. Odds are for cholesterol and just healthier. They're healthier overall, she can be. But it's something that we have to watch. And it's, she's such a thin girl, she's super petite. And you know, she doesn't eat poorly. But the things that she does love, like salt and butter are things that I'm like, Oh, I don't think that's really great for your cholesterol, but you're a kid, that's what you're supposed to eat. And then you know, I also want you to gain weight because you're a little bit on the skinnier side. And but it's just this whole cycle of things that I'm not supposed to do and try to watch. And

Scott Benner 1:01:10
it's hard to know when hard to know what to take. Seriously. I mean, salt. It's amazing, right? I mean, who doesn't want salt and butter? It just doesn't want letter. Exactly. Well, is there any? Is there any chance? So I mean, I'm looking it up here and it says it's chronic, it can last for years or be lifelong. I guess this one of these things they find because they're looking for it. Do you know what I mean by that?

Patty 1:01:35
I think it's just high cholesterol. Really, it's just a fancy name for high cholesterol, but I'm a child her age, you should not have high cholesterol. Gotcha. So it's something that appeared and, you know, was a red flag for endo and SAR endo just referred us to the cardiologist and, and now we have to see a cardiologist from every year. You know, he seemed like he was pleased with her recent results, but I just didn't worry, because I just think in the future, what if like, her diet isn't that great? Or, you know, like what happens when she's on another medication. And on top of everything, and I just obviously don't want her to be on so many things, but it is what it is. So we're just keeping an eye on it.

Scott Benner 1:02:18
I will share this with you as as the newly minted father of a college graduate.

Patty 1:02:24
It's graduation.

Scott Benner 1:02:26
Thank you, you congratulating me on not having to pay for his college anymore or graduate? So yeah, so it's, they're gonna become adults one day, and there's almost nothing you're gonna do after that. See, you're just you're you're, you're trying to point them to a path. And you're hoping they land on it, and keep going. Based on something you've said or done or help them with in the past? It's, it's, um, there's no way to know. And even you might not know, like, what she'll leave one day, it's so hard to think about, right? Like, she'll be an adult, and she'll move out and she'll go somewhere. And you really won't know like, I mean, are your parents alive? Yes. How often? Do you talk to them? Every day? I talked to my mom a lot. I texted my mom a lot. But some people don't. I know. I know. Some people just don't. I don't I don't think my wife speaks to her parents, like a handful of times a year, and it's very normal in their family.

Patty 1:03:29
I know. And it's yeah, it's pretty unique. When people ask me like, Where are your parents and my other five minutes away? How often do you see them? Pretty much every day?

Scott Benner 1:03:37
Yeah, it's just it's interesting, I guess my statement is, is that it's it's very interesting, looking backwards, what you think your job is when your kids are little versus what it actually is. And it's not something you figure out until they're older. And somebody can just explain it to you. So, I mean, you just do the best you can you make good decisions, you model well, and you hope that they pick up some of that as they move forward. Right? That's how I see it, I could be completely wrong. No, I

Patty 1:04:07
think you're right. I think you're right. And, you know, we just kind of I'm like, all I can do is worry for the next few years. I mean, I'm going to worry but I'm trying to do a better job of taking that worry and just using it for good energy versus like all of this like running around, not, you know, not doing a good job, I just have to move forward and get get it done and definitely have been doing better in the last couple years. So in a way that pandemic helped just for me to be able to see everything on a daily, daily daily basis. And now she's back at school, ya know, she's back at school. She's, you know, it's, it's kind of under good control. It seems like you know, I have a great relationship with our school team, their amazing teacher principal, or LPN, or nurse, everybody is just we all work in it as a team and everybody seems to be in agreement now. No, I'm not always gonna have that. But it seems like things are going okay, right now.

Scott Benner 1:05:05
Good. That's excellent. I mean, listen, I've known you for 45 minutes. It sounds like you're doing a terrific job. You're listening. We didn't even talk about the personal part where you like, you try so long to have a baby. And then you decide to, you know, adopt. And then 16 months later the kid gets diabetes.

Patty 1:05:24
We don't talk about that. That's the whole diagnosis story.

Scott Benner 1:05:28
But that's okay. No, but my point is, is that is that like, that's, you're a person, like you. You mean, how many times have you had build up expectations that have been dashed? And then you've, you've been flexible and readjusted, and then the next thing that happens, and you're like, What the heck, you don't I mean, like, like, I mean, it had to have been incredibly sad, and somewhat disappointing, to like, finally find a baby and then start medical problems immediately. Like, it just it's overwhelming, I would imagine.

Patty 1:06:02
Yeah, you're the second person that said that to me in the last week or so if they asked me if I was, you know, I was disappointed. Finding that out. And I think I was just, I was just so sad. It was a grieving process. I was, you know, I had this baby, this gorgeous little baby that was, you know, just plump and yummy. And, you know, and we were so excited over the moon being parents, and all of a sudden, I saw her over the course of two months, lose a lot of weight. And you know, and she was so little to begin with, and just see seeing her and get sick all the time, and not knowing what was happening. And then her getting diagnosed, I just watched her and I said, Wow, what happened to the baby that we had didn't have to worry about this. We didn't have to prick her finger like 678 times a day and wake her up at night to pick her fingers. Because we were doing it all the time. It just, it was a whole grieving process. And I didn't do well, I did not do well, if it wasn't for my husband, I think I don't know what would have happened because he's the one who took the reins and said, I can't let you continue like this, because someone has to take care of this situation. And y'all give you your time, but you better you know, it needs to be over quick. And so I think he gave me a couple, two or three weeks and just been a mess. And then I finally was, okay,

Scott Benner 1:07:21
sideline, get some oxygen, but I'm gonna need you back out here in a second. I mean, look, I mean, I don't know what could be a more human thing, if you can't even talk about the letdown because it's attached to a person that you love. But here I'll give you an example of it. From the from the other morning, in the middle of, of, you know, we had just stopped this seizure from like going full. I mean, she was having it, but it didn't get you know what I'm saying like it didn't have long to go and we got her right back out of it again. So now we're getting her together. In that time, I am not lying to you. While I was naked in the Holiday Inn Express bathroom talking to my daughter and her friends after this seizure had happened. I get a text from my brother 24 hours after my mom got the news that she was in remission. And it said mom has COVID Oh, and I'm standing in that bathroom in the text mom has COVID pops up to me. And I'm gonna tell you, here's what I thought it was a split second. But I thought, Could everybody who needs something from me just me alone for a second? Just a second, please. Because I'm just out here trying to see my son graduate already really disappointed that my daughter's not here. And now this is happening. And in the middle of that seizure. I had that conscious thought like, I need to stop this for her health and well being. But I also need to stop this. Because if I don't, I'm leaving right now. And I am not seeing my son graduate. And he's not even going to know why. Right? Like, I have to fix this right now. It's the it's like it was the parenting moment of all parents demos. I was like this can't go wrong. I have to get I there was a moment I felt like I willed her to be okay. You know, it was just it was insane. But then in the middle that mom has COVID I was like, Are you kidding me? Like, the floor gonna open up and I get swallowed into hell. Like when is that happening? Is that now like, you know, like, or am I gonna have a heart attack? Like, I don't want anybody find him naked in a Holiday Inn Express. You don't I mean, Patty stock it's not a good luck missing. They're gonna they're gonna think math right away, you know? And I don't need that. But the truth is, I'm gonna say I hope it doesn't sound I feel like I'm gonna sound like I'm bragging for a second but It all the things I've been through in my life when I was a kid and being adopted and growing up that way, and having a baby who has diabetes and all the things I've been through, I could not have been better positioned for what happened this weekend. I really just kicked its ass. It was it was really something like I was when it was all over. I was like, Wow, I'm like, this is like, the thing I tell people is actually what happened. You have to have these experiences over and over again. And they're most of them are not going to be pleasant. But one day, you're going to have that experience. You're going to really need it and it's going to come through for you. That is exactly what happened.

Patty 1:10:36
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's, that's a good take on it. That all of these things are preparing you,

Scott Benner 1:10:43
Patty. It's the only it's the only thing because what's the opposite take is I run out into traffic. Okay, because like you can't like there's no other option. Right? Paddy, like you, you're gonna go on the sideline, take a breath. You gotta get back in the game, because what else you're gonna do? What else am I gonna do? I know, we're not gonna wish away their diabetes, or their add or whatever the hell else is gone with them. Like it's this is it. This is the game. You know what it is? Yeah.

Patty 1:11:10
It's like mad. We're in it.

Scott Benner 1:11:14
You were so funny. In the beginning, you were like, I've been married for 25 years.

Patty 1:11:19
I'll tell you this thing. Oh, oh, dear God. Wait for the sweet release of death?

Scott Benner 1:11:25
I know. I know. He will don't listen, I think if you stay in the game, it's a win. Yeah, I agree. A lot of people bail a lot of people do. I'm not. I'm not flooded by it at all. So this is what I signed up for. And I mean, you just like you, I didn't think, you know, I was gonna have to learn what hyperlipidemia meant, or type one diabetes. Like I didn't think I mean, if you think when my daughter was born, I was like, you know, one day, I'll probably have an incredibly popular diabetes podcast. I wasn't. I was like, Oh, I have a daughter. That's lovely. Like you don't even like anyway, all right, Patti. I gotta ask, is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have? No, I think that's it. I appreciate you listening to everything. I talked a lot, too. I apologize, Patti, you caught me on a bad day.

Patty 1:12:18
It? Is it a bad day? Or is it a good day?

Scott Benner 1:12:21
It's a good. It's a bad day, if you want to talk more. It's a good thing. Listen, the episodes, I think the episodes terrific. And it's just that you said when you went down the road of talking about not being afraid and and being afraid and not being able to be afraid. I was like, um, it's malpractice. If I don't tell you this story. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Patty 1:12:42
it is, I would have been very upset with you. And I would have thought Why didn't he just share that story at that time when I was talking about fear?

Scott Benner 1:12:50
Podcasts malpractice is what it would have been? Yeah, totally. I don't have podcasts, malpractice insurance. So I can't do that. You were terrific. I really appreciate this. I have to say I probably owe you another episode. So if you ever want to come back on in the future, you let me know.

Patty 1:13:08
Thank you. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:13:09
I really did. You were very easy to talk to.

Patty 1:13:12
I'm glad I talk to a lot of people for you on a daily basis. Because your job? Yeah, I'm, I'm an education. So yeah, talk to a lot of people.

Scott Benner 1:13:25
You're very good. It was very easy to speak to you. So thank you very much. Thank

Patty 1:13:28
you. Thank you very much. I appreciate what you do. And then yeah, I will. I will look to come back on.

Scott Benner 1:13:35
Excellent. Good. Well, then we'll make it a date. Hold on one second for me.

A huge thanks to paddy for coming on the show today telling most of your story before I told mine. And I also want to thank Dexcom makers the Dexcom G six and Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems. You cannot go wrong getting Dexcom dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Get your diabetes supplies including insulin the way we do at US med call 888-721-1514 or go to us med.com Ford slash juice box to get your free benefits check and to get started today with us med. I want to thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

If you're enjoying the podcast, please leave a five star rating and review in the app that you listen it and don't forget to check out the Facebook page for the Juicebox Podcast. It's a private group with 33,000 members, everyone there has diabetes or love someone with it. It's great conversations. Great advice. People are talking to each other. It's really really wonderful Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. It to private groups so you'll have to answer a couple of questions to prove you're a living person before you get in

#826 Defining Diabetes: Meet the Need

Scott and Jenny Smith define diabetes terms In this Defining Diabetes episode, Scott and Jenny define Meet The Need.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 826 of the Juicebox Podcast

Hey in this episode of defining diabetes Jenny Smith and I are going to define meet the need. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you're enjoying Jenny and you'd like to hire her, you can she works at integrated diabetes.com. Are you a US citizen who has type one diabetes or is the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey when you complete the survey. You have helped somebody living with diabetes, you're moving diabetes research forward and you may just help yourself T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. I have an unprecedented amount of time before the music stops. Let me just tell you, thank you for listening to the show. And if you're really enjoying it, leave a beautiful five star review and a rating wherever you listen. Great reviews help other people to find the show.

If you're looking for a New Year's resolution that's achievable. Listen to a Juicebox Podcast series. If you're newly diagnosed, find the bulb beginning series. Trying to understand what all these words mean. Defining diabetes has over 50 episodes at this point, you're listening to one right now. And if you're really ready to dig in the diabetes Pro Tip series is the way to go. You can subscribe or follow the show for free on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music or wherever you get your audio even audible. Melissa says Pro Tip series set us on our desired path from the very beginning from a 12.9 a one C A diagnosis to a 5.2 in one year with no honeymoon. You can find the series and more at juicebox podcast.com Right at the top in the menu. Or you can go in the audio app you're listening in and just do a search Juicebox Podcast bald beginnings to finding diabetes, diabetes pro tip or how about the diabetes variable series, you think you know what's impacting your blood sugar, maybe you don't completely understand the diabetes variable series will help you to there's a mental wellness series defining thyroid, a collection of episodes about algorithm pumping. And don't forget the afterdark series where people tell stories that most won't share. And finally, if you're looking for support, or community, the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group is absolutely free, has over 32,000 members. And it's just waiting there for you so much good information, you can dive in and talk or just kind of sit back and watch whenever you need. That group has it. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod makers of the Omni pod five, and Omni pod dash. Learn more and get started today at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. Hey, Jenny, how are you?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:38
I'm good. How are you? Scott? I'm

Scott Benner 3:39
excellent. I'm excited to be here with you today to define, I think a phrase I made up, but it's still an idea that that um, everybody needs to know about meet the need. And I make up those words. I would expect that you did. Okay. All right. I think it needs to be defined because far too frequently. I mean, I think there's a couple of ways people get to it. But the way I see them get to it mostly is there's an idea in some people's heads that there's an amount of insulin that's the right amount of insulin and there's an amount of insulin, it's too much insulin. And instead of meeting the need that their body is, is is expressing asking for Yeah, it's asking for, they say things like well, I don't know anybody else who has a Basal that high or you know, doesn't doesn't five units or 10 units sound like too much and. Right, right. And to that I always respond to you just you need to meet the need. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:42
and I think the interesting thing about that, and defining it in the way that you've defined it just meet the need. I think people will find it very valuable to listen when we do talk about the math.

Scott Benner 4:55
Yeah, right. Well, don't you always Well, I get a lot of notes like this, I just had one the other day from this guy. And he says, we moved my son, I think, I think it was a son doesn't matter. I moved my kid from on the pod dash to Omni pod five, but it's not working. And right away, it's like, it's it's not working, the thing doesn't work, you know, the dang machine doesn't do what they said. And and so I go back and forth with him a couple of times and messages, it must be it must be irritating to message with me because I asked leading questions that I need the answer to and I want you to think about, I don't actually tell you anything if we're talking to each other. So I asked him a couple of questions. And I said, I said, you know, what, what were your, like, average blood sugar's like in the past, you know, where were you sitting stable, and the kid wasn't sitting stable. Like, I'm not saying you have to be at all the time, but the kid was like 90 and 100 120 130. So already, I'm saying, Okay, sounds like there's not enough insulin. And then I asked a couple more questions. And it turns out that there's a lot of corrections throughout the day. So insulin that the kids not getting through carb ratio and not getting through Basal. They're coming in and pouring in extra. And that's when I said to him, I don't know if it's your basil. I don't know if it's your carb ratio, or both. But you are not meeting the need of either of those most likely, right? You're using a lot of extra insulin. You need to get that into, into your settings. Right. Right. And so he's meeting the need. Almost he was almost getting there. But he didn't know he was doing it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:38
He was doing it by adding instead of having the system learn and deliver the amounts that were actually needed. Right, and you can, you can certainly continue to do it that way. It's just more work. It's more work following things and giving all of these adjustments and corrections and things along the course of of time. Corrections should really be not as frequent. Because if you are getting the right amount, whether it's from an automated system, or from just a manual dosing strategy, whether pumper MDI, right, the background needs to cover enough, and then the Bolus is the main reason really, for bolusing is for the most part around food. Yeah, it's carbs, right. So if that is keeping your glucose in the target range that you are aiming for, then your Bolus is meeting your need, because you shouldn't after that have to add a heck of a lot or any correction to get that Bolus to bring you back to your target. If however, you're adding adding, adding and that's just your regular routine every single day, you're constantly micromanaging. There's missing insulin,

Scott Benner 7:52
you and I think a lot of people find themselves in this position where they're like, Well, I don't know, I made my basil point nine five, because, you know, 1.1 like, I can't believe my basil is over one unit an hour. But it's just it's, I don't It's not ego, but it's it's this idea of like, it's embarrassment, maybe like, I'll I use too much insulin, you're not you if it's 1.1 an hour, it's 1.1 an hour, it's not too much insulin, I think carb ratio, the same thing here. People say all the time. Oh my God, my carb ratio. Oh, it's one unit for you know, one unit covers eight carbs. It's terrible. Like I'm like, It's not terrible. That's what happens. Now, maybe maybe your maybe your style of eating is meat that needs that right like so there's an there's another conversation there. If you wanted to eat lower carb or better foods or something like that, maybe your carb ratio would change. But in the moment, it's one to eight artists artists, an 18 year old kid who's in college, Arden's carb ratio is during the daytime. One unit covers four and a half carbs. Okay, so And there's still times where I'm like, oh, geez, that wasn't enough. We need more I'm not embarrassed by it. Because why because art is a one see, even when she went away to college was in the low sixes in and and so we're meeting her need now. Same thing with basil. Same thing with everything, your carb ratio, your adjustments, but it can also, I also think of meet the need, in what I guess would be 180 degrees different way. Meaning if you're low all the time, you're you're not meeting the need, you're exceeding the need. Correct. Right. So in my mind, I haven't said this a long time probably since we made the Pro Tip series but in my mind, I think of a stable line on a graph as possible. If you're if you're Basil is right, you can keep stable. There are other variables that are going to try to derail you and you may not keep stable but there is theoretically out there and amount of insulin minute to me In an hour to hour that would keep you stable whether you were sitting, standing running, eating a cheeseburger or having whatever Jenny eats. I mean, whatever healthy thing she eats. I don't even know how to guess at what your needs, and she's told me what she eats, and I still can't get strawberry

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:16
bites my chia pudding. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Benner 10:20
So, so no matter what you're doing. Alright, listen, if you're managing yourself as an adult, or child or anywhere in between, if you're managing this insulin thing with an insulin pump, or you're doing MDI, where you're just looking for things to be easier, I think you should check out the Omni pod five, Omni pod five talks to your CGM, and it sees your blood sugar rising or falling, and it makes adjustments to your insulin automatically an algorithm, an algorithm based pump that's trying its best to keep you stable. It's amazing, the technology is insane. And if you're struggling, or just want to step back a little bit on the pod five really could be the way to go for you. You can learn more at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Now if you don't want automation, you can still get to Bliss wireless with Omni pod with the Omni pod Dash. And as a matter of fact, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash and that is something you can find out at my link omnipod.com forward slash juice box. Ali pot five is the only tubeless automated insulin delivery system that integrates with the Dexcom G six CGM, and it uses smart adjust technology to automatically adjust your insulin delivery every five minutes, which helps to protect you against highs and lows without multiple daily injections. For full safety risk information and free trial terms and conditions. You can also visit my link Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. My daughter has been using an omni pod every day since she was four years old, I think you're gonna love it. Now, is it possible for you to do that manually, it's obviously would take most of your life. But with these algorithms, you know, getting better and more plentiful. We're all going to be in that situation someday, you know, where you're going to have stable lines that are lower, you're gonna have some spikes around missed meals, and maybe we'll exercise and get low. But for the most part, the stability away from variables is going to be something else because that algorithm is constantly meeting and re meeting the changing need no matter which way it goes. So can you do that on your own? You can I did it for years, it was a lot of work. But it was doable. And to be honest, I found a rhythm with it. And at some point became less work than you might think. Anyway, you just there's an amount of insulin you need. And don't be embarrassed by it and just do it. And don't don't continue to look at low blood sugars over and over again and go I don't know what's happening.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:02
You got your high blood sugar's I mean, when you talk about stability, I think it also requires you to talk about where are you looking to stay stable. Because as you say, Basil alone should hold you stable when there's nothing else in the picture, whether it's food, or stress, or exercise or illness or whatever it might be, your Basal should hold you pretty stable, if it's at the right dose. And that stability, again, should be where you want to be sitting. If you want to be sitting at a 90 blood sugar. Your last Bolus should let you sit there and basil should carry you on as many hours at that 90 to 100 place as you want to be. Again, if you're running, you know I'm comfortable at 120 Okay, then you're a little less. Yeah, hold you there at 120. Right. And you might need 40 units of Basal insulin to hold you at 120 Where somebody else at 120 only needs 18 units of Basal insulin again. So you have to meet your need. Yes.

Scott Benner 14:08
Right. And don't match yourself to anyone else. Like no, no, just I mean, yeah, it's just it's gonna be different for you. Your variables are different. Arden is a different person. When she's home from college than she is when she's she's more active at college. She's up on a schedule. She you know, here last night, for the love of God. I think she went to bed at five o'clock in the morning. I think I walked in there and what are you doing?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:34
I know you're 18 But you still need sleep?

Scott Benner 14:36
What are you doing? She was waking me up tomorrow at 10 I was like, how do you think that's gonna happen? That's not gonna I 10 o'clock on my garden. Get up. Get up, aren't I Okay, take another hour. But yeah, I mean, it's just it's very important. It's very important. Technically, meet the need, and it's very important emotionally. And you got to just find a way to let yourself go. Like, I mean, don't get me wrong. If you're in a situation where you have like massive problems and you're using weight, you know what, like so much insulin like I can't even like make my pump last three days or whatever. Maybe you get to talk to your doctor about pairing another drug with it to help you. I'm talking about, you know, generally speaking for most people who are in an average situation, right? Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense to, is that the talk around that, because it's very important, but it's without its without context in the diabetes world. Like, if you don't listen to this podcast, very few people are going to talk to you like this, you know?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:38
Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Most people don't even understand. They don't understand the variable nature of insulin at all. It's the reason that most people are like, Oh, you're on a pump. That just does it. All right,

Scott Benner 15:52
magic pump. Well, listen, even with ice. I paid specific attention to Arden's stuff overnight, because we just switched her to a different version of loop. And so I wanted to just be on making sure everything's going the way I expect. And you can see overnight that even though you're you say to, you're telling the loop, like look, this is your insulin sensitivity, and this is your Basal rate. But the loop still for many hours overnight, it's like hey, I'm just gonna give you half that basil or a third of it, or two thirds of it. Oh, God, I took too much away. Here's I need to add back 120% of it. Like, you know, you're giving it this leeway to drive the itself driving. You know, I'm always talking about like, keep it in the lines. This is just the self driving thing that sees the line on its own. It was oh, and then just rolls back. Oh my god. How did that never occur to me?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 16:43
Yeah, it is. It's kind of like the bumpers on like, the like bowling, right? Yeah, it is. It's like okay, we gotta go back this way. Now Oh, no, let's move you back

Scott Benner 16:53
this way in the bumping and nudging episodes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's kind of manually bumping yourself off the off the lines on the road. And an algorithm is just seeing the line coming and bumping itself back.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:05
Yep. It's got a predictive nature to it. So it can watch further out from where you currently are.

Scott Benner 17:10
Yeah, so meet the need, no matter what system you're using. And, you know, inevitably I'm gonna get a note for sighs like, you don't talk about MDI, it's the same thing. It's just, you know, you're putting all of your insulin in for basil at one time, instead of it being spread out. Sure, you don't have the ability to take away point five an hour, you know, or something like that, which would maybe be helpful, but you're going to find an amount of injected Basal insulin, that does the job, as well as you can get it and then you're going to have to make adjustments with your meals and corrections, correct.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:41
That's absolutely. And that's why, you know, one of the only places that we really recommend if you were going to look at your dose in your MDI is really to look at your overnight to see what is your Basal holding you overnight, is it you know, when you go to bed, you started a number does it hold you there until you wake up the next morning, and if it does, but the number was higher than you wanted? It's not necessarily the basil. It's where your last Bolus left you off. The basil just kept you there. So in that circumstance in my night might not be that you have take more Basal hit might actually be that your Bolus needs to be different.

Scott Benner 18:23
Okay, so Well, I appreciate you doing this one with me. Thank you very much. Excellent.

Hey, huge thanks to Jenny of course for coming on the show as she does if you would like to hire her she works at integrated diabetes.com You should go check her out. I want to thank also Omni pod. I'm serious. I said earlier, my daughter has been wearing it on the pod every day since she was four years old. She's 18 and in college now, the Omni pod has been nothing but a friend to her. And I think you'll enjoy it as well. Omni pod.com forward slash juice box head over there. Get started today. If you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please tell a friend your doctor or somebody. Anybody everybody scream. Anyway, just tell somebody about the podcast. It really helps the show. I'll be back very soon with another episode. Thank you so much for listening.

#825 After Dark: California Sober

Perry has type 1 diabetes and a lifetime of stories. Warning: Drug related conversation.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 825 of the Juicebox Podcast. What's an after dark episode? Oh, it's part, you're gonna love this

when you're hosting a podcast, the most you can hope for from your guests is honesty. And Perry brings the honesty in full force today. It's absolutely a fantastic episode. I can't thank him enough for being so open and vulnerable and honest. So Perry has type one diabetes, but he's only had it for a little while. But his little brother got it a really long time ago, and has since passed away. This conversation is going to twist and turn around personal feelings, drug use, the sale of narcotics, some violence, a lot of stuff in here, all from a guy who's made a pretty big change in his life. I hope you'll listen. It's terrific. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. Oh, please don't forget, if you're a US resident take this survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box really helps the show and people living with type one. Thank you. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is brought to you by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six and Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitors, head over to dexcom.com Ford slash juicebox. To get started today, and find out more Dexcom G seven might not be out quite yet it's been FDA approved, might not be exactly available in the US right now. But go check out the link. It's everything you need to know. I rushed myself a little in the opening. So let me say again, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Take the survey, join the registry, it takes like 10 minutes, you're really helping when you do that. And I'm going to take a second here to remind you all about all the series that are within the podcast. You can find them in your podcast player by searching for them. Like if you wanted the defining diabetes series, you can type in defining diabetes juice box and it will come up you want it the Pro Tip series same thing. But if you want to see all of the series in one place, so you can kind of get a feeling for what episodes there are and what you can be looking for in your podcast player. Or if you want to just listen online, go to juicebox podcast.com. Actually, you can go to diabetes pro tip.com to at the top of those pages, hold on a second Juicebox Podcast sorry, there's a menu at the top of juicebox podcast.com where you'll see after dark this is an after dark episode by the way. Ask Scott and Jenny algorithm pumping bold beginnings to finding diabetes to finding thyroid diabetes, pro tip diabetes variables, mental wellness, click on one of those. I'm just going to pick one like here's mental wellness. When you click on that it tells you a little bit about it gives you a list of all the episodes. And there's actually a player right there where you can see the episode numbers. Listen to them right in the browser if you want, or at least you'll know what to search for in your podcast app. All right, so All right, I've hit record. So you're being recorded now. And all you need to do when you're ready, is just introduce yourself briefly and then we'll start talking.

Perry 3:43
My name is Perry and I'm a type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 3:46
Excellent. Perry. How old are you?

Perry 3:48
3333.

Scott Benner 3:51
When were you diagnosed? How old?

Perry 3:54
32.

Scott Benner 3:55
Oh, no kidding. Recently?

Perry 3:57
Yeah. New, new new.

Scott Benner 4:00
No kidding. Is there. Is there diabetes type one or other autoimmune issues in your family?

Perry 4:08
Yeah, not a lot. But yes, my. I have a cousin. On my father's side. That's the type one. That cousin on my mother saw. That's the type one. And everybody else is tied to this whole ballgame. But um, and then my younger brother, which is he's passed now. He was a type when he was born. He was diagnosed. He had an eight months old but they didn't diagnosed until he's nine months old.

Scott Benner 4:32
Okay. And you said he's passed away? How old was he when he passed? 19. Was that recently or in the past? Nine years

Perry 4:41
ago? These December 10 2013. We're staying on

Scott Benner 4:45
December 10 2013. Okay, so he's type one his whole life basically minus the first nine months. But you just this last year Can I ask you? Well, I guess we have to find out though. First, let's hear about how you were diagnosed. What did you notice? And how did it get you to a doctor?

Perry 5:06
I can't believe that we didn't notice it. We should have noticed that sooner with was my younger brother, you know, and but I don't know why we we couldn't read the writing on the walls, but I was extreme thirst. I remember throughout the night I remember one night I drink six sodas from midnight to 6am. And I was going back and forth to sleep to. And I knew something was right about that, and extreme thirst. And then I was working from home at the time. And upstairs and my mother would come up stairs just to look at me and I'd be on the clock bed asleep. Just just fall over. And finally she said let me check your sugar. And the machine that we had, it would read up to eight or 900 I believe something like and my sugar wouldn't read. It just said hi. So I was probably around 1000 Mark.

Scott Benner 6:02
And then you go to the hospital and you go to a doctor.

Perry 6:06
They tried to get me to go to the ER at the end. I really didn't want to I was going to but like I said I have another type one cousin. So I just called him and said Brian on the insulin because this happened on a Friday. So we couldn't and I didn't want to go to the hospital all weekend. So I got some human log from him one of his pens, and we were just micro dosing me over the weekend getting my sugar down. And now that was not an option. I would have went yeah. route because I was here I was probably in DK every person on this trip and it was. So it was so purple that Barney,

Scott Benner 6:45
I like I like Perry that when you realize you said piss you said, because as a response. You're like, I don't want to say passed down. Like I said, just speak the way you speak. We'll take care of it later. Your ketones are sky high. And you were Did you with any? Were you able to bring your blood sugar down over the weekend? I mean, I'm actually kept testing, right.

Perry 7:11
Oh, of course. Yes. Yeah. Like I said, if I had if that wasn't an option, it wasn't working out with the hospital. Yeah, we got it down. I really don't remember what we got it down to but we just kept micro dosing, you know, we really didn't want to go anything extreme. And we were just doing like two units at a time, you know, not much and we got it down. And then we went to the doctor Monday, and went there and told him what happened. Then he looked at me and he, they would recommend putting me in the hospital as well. But he knows I've been with him for a little while and he knows me. He knows I don't want to go. So they gave me fluids. And I'll sit in the office for like five, six hours. Getting fluids. I got like 15 bags of magnesium.

Scott Benner 7:53
Wow, good doctor. Or a mob? I'm not sure which one.

Perry 7:59
I love him. He's not much older than me. I'm 33 and he I believe he's 3638 Something like that. He's, I love my doctor.

Scott Benner 8:07
Yeah, that's excellent. Okay, so this is just a year ago. So were you sick prior to your diagnosis at all?

Perry 8:15
Not really. I mean, I was growing up. I was healthy as a horse. I was watching my brother watching my brother deal with it. He was a Medtronic patient.

Scott Benner 8:24
And so tell me so he was I'm sorry, your brother? Are we gonna say his name? Matthew. Yeah, no problems. Okay, so Matthew was 19 when he passed, but that's 789 years ago already. He'd be 28 now. Yes, sir. Okay, all right. He'd be 28 You're 33 Can we talk about him for a little bit? What was doing? You have a lot of recollection about our life with diabetes.

Perry 8:53
Oh, absolutely. I'm an open book, man. You can ask me anything. I'm very honest, that don't have problems doing anything.

Scott Benner 8:59
Yeah. Did he struggle with it? Or did he do well?

Perry 9:03
It was always a struggle.

Scott Benner 9:06
Why do you think

Perry 9:09
you hear the term brittle diabetic thrown around and stuff like Yeah, I mean, it's not a I don't know. But the Hey, you could consider him a brutal diabetic. I mean, it would just be extreme highs, extreme lows. Because before he got diagnosed, he was sucking the the he would get the baby wipes and he was sucking the juice out of the baby wipes. He's drinking a gallon of tea a day. He was drinking. He was floating his bed. And that's when mom and knew something went wrong. And they rushed him to the doctor and he actually had my copy of my pediatrician was Dr. Whitmer. Again, he didn't catch it, and then turned out another pediatrician called it and they diagnosed him and I was

Scott Benner 9:54
sucking the liquid out of the wet wipes that that'll stick with me for a while. That's something you To the extreme

Perry 10:00
thirst and I know what he's talking about now. I mean, you just like, you use like you get caught off from smoking weed. That your sugar.

Scott Benner 10:12
Well, that's okay. So, so he's diagnosed obviously very early. And I mean, we're talking about 32 ish years ago too. So in the early 90s, kind of random born in 94, or 94. Okay, so 9495 This happened, then you're, it's you, you're older and him. Is there other are there other kids? Are you the only two?

Perry 10:38
I have a sister that she was never like, stillborn, you, I guess you would say she never actually made it. So

Scott Benner 10:46
but so my point is your mom was raising two little boys at that point. Oh,

Perry 10:51
yeah. And the part was that she got sent home was a baby that had type one diabetes, and she had no clue how to take care of.

Scott Benner 10:59
Yeah, that's my point. So so she does the best she can with him. And is she your parents together at that point are now

Perry 11:08
not anywhere near divorce now but they were together. They were that

Scott Benner 11:12
okay? So your mom and dad are are trying to help this little baby you're not much older. And it's tough for her she's she's not getting good direction. At some point is your brother trying insulin pump or glucose monitor or anything like that?

Perry 11:27
Well back Matthew was one of the ones he was borderline on the shitty treatment like because the insulin that was available back then was and now getting the finally when he was six years old, they put him on a pump. And we had to go to Charlotte to do that.

Scott Benner 11:46
So he Charlotte North. Yeah, he did regular mph then for five or so years. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So your mom was shooting them a couple times a day feed them on a schedule that kind of stuff. Did your did your life have to follow his diabetes schedule? As far as food went?

Perry 12:03
Horse food? No, not really. Waited? No, not really. I mean, never seem to really bother him. Like if I ate something in front of him because he he'll if he wanted to, he needed to just take a shot for it. So

Scott Benner 12:18
okay. So alright, so when you finally hit the truck, isn't that interesting? How long ago was you had to travel to get on a pump. So he gets on a pump, which means he goes to faster acting insulin. And things don't get much better for him. There's your mom not get like good direction again, around what to do.

Perry 12:38
She had a woman that was helping, I can't remember her name. But she really, really helped me out a lot and really informed mom of how to take care of this baby. And she's done a good job because now I trust my mother's opinion just as much as my endocrinologist. The only reason I go down there is because my wallet can't write prescriptions.

Scott Benner 13:03
And get her doing that. She's gonna make a lot of friends. So

Perry 13:06
she she's very she's very intelligent when it comes to type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 13:10
Okay, so the diabetes part was when he was younger you think was being fairly well taken care of. Are you aware of what his a onesies were back then? By any chance?

Perry 13:19
The highest he's ever had was 14 point something.

Scott Benner 13:23
Do you know where it was generally speaking, like they like after he was

Perry 13:28
when the 14 happened? Yeah. Do

Scott Benner 13:30
you think that 14 was early on? No, the

Perry 13:33
14 like as like teenagers and stuff growing up, you know, especially going through puberty. And so you can stare and you you know how steroids are?

Scott Benner 13:43
Yeah. Was he using steroids?

Perry 13:46
Oh, yeah. Well, see what Yeah, didn't forgot more important part about his diagnosis was that he had some of the worst asthma you could ever imagine. And that really, really, really complicated it because he was on steroids for that. And then that's just destroying and his blood sugar's he lived in the hospital for half the year for the first five years of his life. And he was in the hospital half a year.

Scott Benner 14:14
And that was from the asthma

Perry 14:17
from the asthma and the diabetes, both there just it was like, like it was uncontrollable. We were always going to the emergency room and they were always admitting him in the hospital. I mean, he got to the point to where the three I can go down to that hospital get me to greasy hot dogs, and I go sit on that air conditioner and eat them and look out the window. I've done that so many times. I wish I had $1 for every time I did it. Yeah. feels comfortable.

Scott Benner 14:41
Probably. Yeah. Okay, so he's got asthma and type one on top of that they're giving him steroids for the asthma which is driving up his blood sugar. And back then there's no I mean, even the meter technology shaky but there's no continuous glucose monitors. He can't it's not like you're looking at his blood sugar constantly on a phone or something.

Perry 15:00
They were talking about it. That's that's they were talking about about it back then. But they it never became available to him before. He ended up passing.

Scott Benner 15:11
But okay, so then I'm imagining as he gets older, he's taking over more of the care from your mom. And he's probably not putting in the same effort. She is. And her effort was still she was fighting an uphill battle. And then Oh,

Perry 15:26
absolutely. You know that. I mean, of course, it's a it's a child, you know, how a child is going to control its own. I mean, they wouldn't even take his insulin sometimes, you know?

Scott Benner 15:36
Okay, so he was pretty, he was pretty resistant to doing the thing. No, not resistant, or do you think no, it was just, what do you think it was?

Perry 15:48
Not really, he was pretty good about it. Because my mother she she stayed on top of him from it, because when Atlantis come around, that was a dream. And then every night, I thought I had another little brother because mom would holler out Lantis every single night that we have to remind him to take it and I had another little brother.

Scott Benner 16:07
At the end of the Waltons, can I can I parry? Okay, so All right. So his his care is, is is what it is through his adult years. And he passes away does he pass away from something related to type one? Yeah,

Perry 16:23
he had a heart attack and it was directly related to two of his arteries going to his heart were 100% clogged. And the last one I believe was in like 43% or something like that. The doctor said it was a very extreme heart attack. He said he felt nothing. He just he just went

Scott Benner 16:43
home. Did he have other issues from diabetes before the heart attack? Problems with his eyes or neuropathy? Or was there any other things happening?

Perry 16:53
Not necessarily. He probably was dealing with neuropathy and just didn't really know. But back then they only back then the doctors only thing they did they pushed kidneys and eyes on us. They never said anything about his heart because he didn't he was only weighed 170 bangles. So he wasn't overweight or anything like it. They never one time checked his heart. They never said anything about his heart. They only just pushed kidneys and eyes down our throats.

Scott Benner 17:25
Yeah, it's so I mean, because you have type one. Now I'll share with you that you know, the way anything goes wrong and your body from high blood sugars, whether it's your kidneys, your heart, your eyes or anything. It's that that sugar in the molecular level is it's there's too much of it packed in your bloodstream, and it's actually scraping the insides of your veins and your arteries. Yeah.

Perry 17:51
Can you tell us they told us they told us his arteries crystallized they hardened over completely and crystallized and there was absolutely no flow going through the Yeah,

Scott Benner 18:01
it's terrible. Because what happens is they get scraped, and then they try to repair themselves and they scar, and then that's that scarring makes a blockage. And so

Perry 18:12
yeah, even told us that they even told us that he had a minor heart attack the week before. I don't know if he knew it and didn't tell us or just didn't know or

Scott Benner 18:21
Yeah, so his death is a is a shock then?

Perry 18:26
I absolutely um, he was he worked third shift at the time. And he was at my house. And he was he was complaining that his

Scott Benner 18:40
take your timecard I'm sorry.

Perry 18:43
He was complaining about a headache. And he took some heavy probe. And he said he's starting to feel better. It was 1015. And then at 1030, he left left in the van. And we didn't know and I say this too. I was on house arrest at the time. And it three o'clock in the morning. Greenville County was beaten on the door and I thought they were coming for me so I was hard. And they just asked them questions about Matthew and Mark said, Why are you asking questions about Matthew, he's the one in trouble important to me. And and in this one they they told us and my mother just failed her knees instantly. Because he actually died at the wheel. He he had the heart attack and then crossed three lanes of traffic and went into a parking lot. And his foot was never on the brake. wasn't on the gas either. And he was still in gear, but I guess it had died. He sat there for two hours dead before anyone ever even notice it. Okay, Is it was a rough area where he's at I mean, hailed to be honest reality. They probably just passed out from dope or something. But

Scott Benner 20:10
did he do someone? I'm sorry? I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, go ahead. Oh, yeah. Was he doing like, other drugs as well?

Perry 20:21
Oh, no, no, he wouldn't do it. He was clean. Yeah, no, he wouldn't do anything. Okay. It's just that's all I'm saying that that area was rough. And he was way he was dead over the wheel. Probably thought he was I

Scott Benner 20:33
don't know, their guy passed out in the car somewhere. And

Perry 20:36
they just don't. Yeah, they just thought no, no, no, he went on his toxicology report come back clean. Okay.

Scott Benner 20:44
Well, well, obviously, this is, is completely shocking. So when, when this happens, I guess the the way I want to go with a conversation is it kind of takes diabetes out of your life suddenly, right? Like it just doesn't exist anymore? And do you forget about it? Or is it something that you still kind of hold on to?

dexcom.com forward slash juice box. That's where you're going to go to learn more and get started today with the Dexcom CGM. Why would you do that? Well, if you're using insulin, your blood sugar can and will fluctuate. Being able to see those fluctuations to see the rate and change that's going on in your blood sugar to just be able to see the number like I'm gonna pick up my phone right now Arden's away at college. And I can tell you that her blood sugar is 94. And it's decreasing. Looks like she's drifting down just slightly. Now I happen to know Arden is in our dorm room doing her homework right now. But this drop is a little suspect to me. Looks like she looks like she missed on her lunch a little bit, probably Bolus again to get it down. And now she's dropping a little beyond where she probably wants to be. So I'm gonna watch this. For the next couple of minutes. I'll see her blood sugar in real time. And I'll make a decision as to whether or not it's going to level out or keep falling. If it's going to keep falling. I might send her a little text and be like, Hey, I don't think your blood sugar is gonna stop just to sort of make her aware of it. But if this fall was happening quickly, I would know it too. I'd be looking and thinking, Oh, our budget is falling too fast. I have to call her. This is this is the technology. This is what you want. It's what you need. Go find it dexcom.com forward slash us bucks. I'm seeing my daughter's blood sugar. She's 700 miles from here, seeing it on my phone, just the swipe of my finger. Actually up to 10 people can follow her right now my wife and myself and a couple of her roommates follow her Dexcom they only have her settings. Like they're not bothered with alarms during the day, but they have it set up sort of Arden's blood sugar gets the 55 they get an alarm so they can go check on her. You can set your alarms wherever you want. Mine are at 120 and 70. But you know Dexcom allows you the freedom to do whatever you want to do with it. Seriously, just I mean, I can't say enough good things about it. dexcom.com Ford slash juice box Get started today with the G six G seven is coming any minute now in the US. And it's available in Europe. Go What are you doing? I mean, listen, the power in that go? is probably not amazing. By the way. What do you say there's we're not even a little bit into the story yet.

Perry 23:55
Oh, I've never I'd never let it. I haven't I have a tattoo on my face and it says his name. And then I've got the little universal diabetes and we'll go under I mean, it's that and I know this might sound stupid, but he was my best friend. And putting this tattoo on my face is I feel this way I can still carry on with me.

Scott Benner 24:16
No, it doesn't sound stupid but I just wanted to know if you like once the care of the day to day care of diabetes was out of the house like does it dissipate or do you? I mean do you think of it as what killed Mama

Perry 24:28
Mama Really? Really? Because you know she's always had something to do you know, because there's a child type one diabetes and you can only do so it really affected her more than anything because she didn't really have that to do now know when to take care of.

Scott Benner 24:43
Yeah, and I lost her job almost.

Perry 24:46
Yeah. Now she's she's quite murky and male.

Scott Benner 24:50
Did you find yourself angry about his death? Which said absolutely. Yeah. What did the anger get focused that like was it the diabetes or how did it come out when you were thinking hear about it

Perry 25:04
I just had it I was just mad. And I know this is gonna sound horrible too but I said Why couldn't it be someone else's brother? Why do you have tape? Why Why mine?

Scott Benner 25:16
I understand. I guess I guess I'm I was glad to hear your story obviously and I appreciate your time it was hard to talk about. I asked you about it because I wondered when you get diagnosed last year what is your first thought this is gonna kill me or like I wanted to know how you felt about and how you've kind of approached it.

Perry 25:38
It was really a lot of deja vu because you know I certainly we're right back into it and I'm actually worse off than he was because now I have gastroparesis as well and I keep my sugar under control better than he did so like right now my hair you want to see is 6.6 It was 5.8 last time but

Scott Benner 26:03
guess your presets. Are you pretty quickly are they sure it's gastroparesis?

Perry 26:07
Well yeah, they don't they don't the gastric emptying study and my daughter told me he said it was a 40 minute test and it took two and a half hours. And my daughter said when it takes two hours that's when they consider it gastroparesis and ours. That's a two and a half hour mark and they gave me reglan. They just started me on regular a few days ago and it's been night and day difference this week as far as my stomach i mean i i can do backflips because

Scott Benner 26:38
Tell me a little bit about the symptoms with your stomach like how does it present what got you to the doctor

Perry 26:45
really bloated a lot belching a lot can't eat or then when you do eat I take just two or three bites and I feel full all of a sudden and then I had a bad cancer scare too because my pancreas they removed it as well have it and the more I had a cyst on it. It was eight millimeters it was they said it was decent size and they said it was hard. And you know usually stuff hard. That's when you start worrying and then they send a biopsy off and they remember to come back clean. So there's another and it won't pancreatic cancer.

Scott Benner 27:23
How long ago was the sisters since the diabetes diagnosis right?

Perry 27:28
Oh yeah, the cyst. They removed my pancreas probably about a year ago.

Scott Benner 27:34
So you didn't Did you get diabetes before they took out your pancreas or do you have diabetes because they took out your pancreas.

Perry 27:40
I had diabetes before that took out my pancreas. my pancreas is because also my pancreas. It didn't make enzymes either. Matt Matthews pancreas still made enzymes. I didn't know about that. The enzymes that help you digest your food, because now I had to take I take reglan 30 minutes before I and then I take Kreon directly after I enzymes to help me digest the food because it's not as explosive diarrhea and it's painful.

Scott Benner 28:07
Yeah, I was. So it's funny. I mean, not funny, but I was gonna say that my daughter is the one in my family who has type one and she's 18 and a lot of the things you talked about about the bloating and getting full easily and not digesting food etc. was happening to her We took her to a to a doctor who you know, looked in her stomach and said, hey, you know she's got undigested food in here. And then he just called a gastroparesis. Now, my daughter's had hurry once he's been in the fives or the sexist for like the last 10 years. And so it seemed odd that she would have gastro priestess, it also seems odd that you would have it so quickly after your diagnosis. And so

Perry 28:47
I can go into your route. Now I've gotten neuropathy, I'm already dealing with it, because I just know that's what it is because I've got a test scheduled, they're getting ready to do that. And that'll be another diagnosis. So

Scott Benner 28:58
why do you think it's moving so quickly? I

Perry 29:01
have no idea to be honest, we I really don't. But it is it is escalating quickly. It really is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 29:09
So not that these not that your thing and her thing have to be the same thing. But she started just taking an over the counter digestive enzyme. And, and pairing it up with well, she started with the digestive enzyme, which got the food get getting out of her stomach. And so that helped a lot. And then after that she wasn't still wasn't going to the bathroom. So we added a magnesium oxide that helped her go to the bathroom. And then we put in a really like kind of high quality probiotic to kind of rebuild her, you know, the bacteria in our stomach. And she's doing so much better now from that. Excuse me,

Perry 29:44
he put me on. He tried to put me on the probiotics too. I took all my stuff and then there's something else he gave me for my stomach. I don't know if maybe it was in any heavy on carface was just like a high powered Pepto Bismol and then but I'll tell either so far the Raglin the Kreon those two together is I can get through a day pretty easily with both of them if I don't have them.

Scott Benner 30:09
It's rough. Yeah, we learned what we learned was we tried the probiotics like a year before. But I think what was happening is that her stomach was kind of such a nasty place with undigested food that the probiotics couldn't make a dent in it. It wasn't until we aided the digestion, and then made sure that the elimination part was happening, like the way it was supposed to like so once the body was flowing, you know, in the mouth out or s like, you know, the way it was supposed to. And then adding the probiotics seem to help her like so. I mean, I don't know, man, but that's it's tough. And it just seems like look, I'm not a doctor. But it's crazy that you could develop gastroparesis, and a year after having type one diabetes with a 6681 C that doesn't. That sounds a little weird, because I would more think that you lost your pancreas, and all of the help that it gives with digestion. Like I don't know if so, there's an episode I'm going to find it for you. I'll tell you about a theory. But you're asking

Perry 31:06
a minute ago you said what I thought could lead to help because I'm pretty honest person. I had a pretty good drug addiction for several years and maybe that could have unclean now but

Scott Benner 31:19
yeah, I don't know, man. All I can tell you is that I'm looking for it right now. That the Doctor Who does that kind of work who looks at someone's stomach they call any slow digestion they call it gastroparesis. So there's a difference between gastro precice that you get from uncontrolled diabetes. And the just the idea that you're not digesting food quickly. So that but then you mentioned neuropathy, and that slowed me down from saying that to you. So where are you feeling? neuropathy? Hands, feet.

Perry 31:54
Those hands feet, I get the sharp I get more than burning sensations and the sharp pains then the cold since some people say cold some people say hot, but I get more real. It sucks. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:10
Do your blood sugar's bounce. Do you get real high in the real low?

Perry 32:15
Yeah, cuz we're on new. I don't know how to Bolus for food yet. I mean, I'm still learning in it sounds like you would think I would know more because I had a brother for not two years with it. But it's just different when you got to deal with yourself. Sure.

Scott Benner 32:28
Sure. How about you? How are you making out with gear like you're using a pumper? Are you shooting with MDI or what are you doing?

Perry 32:37
I'm a tandem patient. And we're Dexcom as well.

Scott Benner 32:40
Oh, yeah. So do they have you on control? IQ?

Perry 32:44
Yeah, I'm on controlling cute.

Scott Benner 32:46
Are you Pre-Bolus In your meals putting in insulin before you eat?

Perry 32:50
Yes, I'm just not good at it. I'm trying to learn how to count count and you know and

Scott Benner 32:56
the you think counting the carbs is your is your biggest challenge.

Perry 33:02
Currently, yeah.

Scott Benner 33:03
What kind of? Do you mind me asking about this stuff? What kind of diet do you think you keep like what's an average day?

Perry 33:13
Oh, we're the gastro. I don't eat during the day. I can't eat most of the days. It's it's just sucks. And I've gotten used to now I eat one time a day in the evening. And I mean, I pretty much eat what I want. But I don't go crazy. Well, you know, I keep it. Modest with it. But just take it on board.

Scott Benner 33:33
How about is there a lot of deep fried foods? A lot of oils?

Perry 33:38
No, no, the air? No, the airfryer really love that.

Scott Benner 33:42
Good. Good. Okay, I'm just because sometimes fat can also slow down digestion. So I was wondering about

Perry 33:48
Yeah, that was right. I was reading it last night.

Scott Benner 33:51
You're gonna learn a lot of stuff this year you didn't think you'd ever have the care about? But it's good to know. You know, I mean, the better to sit like Just imagine if podcasts and stuff like that, you know, existed for your mom back when she was trying to raise a nine month old with diabetes or any of this ology

Perry 34:10
Haley? If that was true, he could still be alive that oh, you never know.

Scott Benner 34:16
I I hate to say but I think that, you know, I've interviewed a lot of people and people who had type one diabetes for a long time, who were kind of diagnosed back then they'll all tell you the same story that it was a lot of just randomness like you shot the insulin you ate, you didn't really know what you were doing. You know, the doctors,

Perry 34:36
the doctors didn't even know back then hardly because they didn't have because if they would have known they would tell them what to do.

Scott Benner 34:43
Yeah, no, it was just and the technology wasn't great. meters weren't great pumping wasn't great. So you couldn't even test you couldn't even like test enough to really give yourself an idea of what was happening and with those other insolence that are in the mph, for example. And older ones, you know, the poor Can beef and that kind of stuff. It's not like you were shooting insulin for a meal, you were just kind of putting it in. And then just hoping that it was enough to handle the meals that you were having and kind of trying to eat to the insulin, where now you can decide eat something and push a button and get insulin for it. It's a big deal.

Perry 35:18
I can even give myself insulin from my phone. Yeah, right. It's it's Bolus from my phone.

Scott Benner 35:26
It's absolutely amazing. And you're probably getting that six, a one C, at the moment, just because the algorithm is trying so hard to keep you in range. Exactly. Yeah. So

Perry 35:38
that is my biggest challenge. Now I've just got to learn the Pre-Bolus better and to count better how to. Yeah, I'm constantly I'll reach in the trash can look at like, Damn, it wasn't. So

Scott Benner 35:50
you also start to get a feeling for it. After a while because people don't eat. I mean, there's not an endless number of foods you eat. Like, if you really look at your diet, you probably eat the same handful of things over and over again. So you can kind of start to learn, like, alright, I tried, you know, I said this was 30 carbs, and I, you know, my blood sugar went to 180. And then I had to correct it with another unit. Like, maybe I'll try saying it's, I don't know, 33 Next time, or, you know, or putting in a little extra insulin.

Perry 36:16
Also that I'm actually really limited on by what I can eat because they hadn't. I have full dentures, but they removed my teeth about a year ago as well.

Scott Benner 36:26
I thought you were gonna say because they put you on a gastro precice diet, which is limiting, but it's about oh, it's about dentures. And so I gotta ask you before we get too much farther, Perry, how do you end up on house arrest?

Perry 36:41
I liked selling drugs and running from low

Scott Benner 36:45
and getting caught while you're doing those things. I guess more importantly,

Perry 36:49
I was in the wrong car when I was running. Yeah.

Scott Benner 36:51
Okay, good, Tommy. Do it. I'm sorry to cut you off. I didn't mean to. I was just gonna say go ahead and keep going.

Perry 37:01
Oh, I'm sorry. I was just saying I was in the wrong car that day because hail. I ran through all several times. I was just in Rome core. It blew up. I was in my wife I was in I was in my wife's car and it was just Jetta. If it hadn't died, I'd made it.

Scott Benner 37:19
You were gonna make it. And the car the cars the fault.

Perry 37:23
They had to they? You know what a pit maneuver is? I do? They pitted me eight times. All they did they pit me it knocked me around. I drove the other way. They drove back they picked me up, you're out I can go and I said I'm gonna make him work for it. They owe the cops when they when the car finally. They me and Matthew were in the car. They come at gunpoint and drew both of us out. And then that cop punched me in the face. Sorry, I may say but which I hail I deserve that. But uh, and then, uh, they kind of pissed me off though. Because Matthew, you know, diabetics, we carry a bag around at all times, with stuff in it. Matthew had his bag and they were going through it looking at needles, and they said, Oh, who's the dope head? I said, if you buddy I said his. And then when the sheriff showed up, no one told anything to him. He just looked in the car and he said, Who's the diabetic? I

Scott Benner 38:19
said, Thank you. He knows right. Hey, listen, I'm gonna put this out here right now. Volkswagen wants to buy an ad on this episode. I'll put it back together again. 40 Here's what an ad for a Jetta you know what I mean. I think really held up. I don't know why

Perry 38:37
the cop was so mad because when he showed up to court he had a brand new car. Because he was using the car. He was coming off and it's Oh, he got a brand new and

Scott Benner 38:48
I love the way you think this guy should have been happy you got him a new squad car?

Perry 38:52
Or you had a new charger?

Scott Benner 38:55
It really should have a thank you what the hell? Were you guys underage at that point or how old were you?

Perry 39:01
20 or 20

Scott Benner 39:04
and that just that whole thing just put you on house arrest it doesn't get your time

Perry 39:11
the first and then how stressed bisexual actually the first time was for three months that was true the sound sound dope and they wanted to put me in there but thank God for character witnesses you know people standing out to hearing crime. Are you saying being a bad person? Yeah, so it got me out. They got the house arrest and 90 days for that and then second time I got house arrest was for running from the oil.

Scott Benner 39:39
When I got a call when you say dope I think of heroin but you mean weed?

Perry 39:44
It was actually it's fake. That fakes that that incident stuff you remember? You were selling? I can't think of the name of it. Damn it. Okay to spice

Scott Benner 39:54
spice. That's what I was. That's the word I couldn't find. Okay. And but that's still is that Part of the reason why you only got house arrest

Perry 40:03
Hill no actually they took that they that was there they were mad yeah they were mad about that they wouldn't take it for ease only if it was actually just leave. They came in the store I worked that they I'm honest. We sold that spy stuff and then we sold the basketball which is nothing but you know cocaine and they come in looking for that they didn't find it because there's next door we we hit it and they were mad and they illegally got my keys and went to my car and pulled out a bag of that incense he was like 500 grams or something like that. And illegal he had he couldn't go to my car he didn't have work my car so matter that

Scott Benner 40:54
bath salts I guess the the deal was that it was so so much cheaper than like using meth or cocaine. Right so

Perry 41:00
a lot cheaper news better.

Scott Benner 41:03
Gotcha. That's like back when the the news stories of like guys like losing their like eating people in the street and stuff like that. Those were bath salts, right? That's those trips.

Perry 41:16
I don't believe that. I want to know what I want to know what else they were own. They were just they were blaming it all on bass all the time, because that was the hot topic. I want to know what else I want to know what else he was on. Gotcha, you know, to bid to make you do that because I would have done more bass out new shakes thicket, and I'd never eat nobody space. So

Scott Benner 41:37
what's the high from Bath Salts like is it

Perry 41:41
it's like a methamphetamine.

Scott Benner 41:44
Do Is that why you lost your teeth by any chance?

Perry 41:48
Oh, yeah. Cuz after that, after the vast assault and all that stuff, and I never really done any hard drugs until Matthew died. And I mean, I'm not really using it as an excuse. But I was. I was. I was going crazy after he dies. I didn't know what to do.

Scott Benner 42:06
Anyone else? Sorry. Prior to him, you'd sold it, but you weren't using it.

Perry 42:12
Now Yeah, no, I was using it while selling. And then. No, yeah. Your time at drug dealers, though. But uh, and then after that, after you die, that's when I tried miss. And then I got hooked on that for a couple of years. And that sucks that more than morphine.

Scott Benner 42:33
What got you off of that?

Perry 42:35
I got I just when you get sick and tired of being sick and tired, and you make that I was I was done with us. I said, I'm just I'm just taking this and my mother had moved to Kentucky after my parents divorced. And then I just went up there and went to her house. And I went in the room for three weeks. I come out to be that was it and get something to drink. I didn't eat nothing. I didn't talk to nobody. But I just set her and sweated it out for three weeks. And I was done with

Scott Benner 43:06
Perry, you you you kicked it on your own. Just in the house.

Perry 43:09
Yeah. My dad tried to run dad tried to get me go to rehab, but I wouldn't end. And then you know, of course any true any real Dopey and I'll be an address my life, you know, technically. So I've relapsed a couple of times over those years. But you know, I'm playing out do you think any more of it?

Scott Benner 43:29
So while you were talking, I Googled this. And there's an NIH article. It's 2011. But it's about neurological manifestations of chronic meth abuse. And one of the things I found in here was neuropathy.

Perry 43:48
I can tell you right now, I have Restless Leg Syndrome from that I the day I quit doing math. And then there's three weeks after I was doing as developed restless leg syndrome. And I still to this day had Yeah, okay.

Scott Benner 44:04
Well, I think just when you're talking to your doctor about this, I think you have to be honest with them. Not that you probably aren't, but I think you have to tell them that you think that might be from the math not from the

Perry 44:14
I know, I was thinking honestly I was talking to my girlfriend about that earlier because he's putting me on different medicines and stuff. I just need to be honest with him letting him know that kind of what my history is so because he's any kind of any kind of dose they give me I need a double of it because I'm very I'm very very tolerant to things and I build a tolerance extremely quick. Yeah.

Scott Benner 44:41
Yeah, you in that jet are tough.

Perry 44:44
That's like the other day when I went up there they put me on depression medicine, I'm gonna Wellbutrin now and it's like I can tell it I can tell the difference is actually helped me put me in a little better mood but I need to I need to double dose. I mean, because well, what let's wait like Ain't anybody that goes into the hospital say like you'd get hurt like if you're a bad dope head was that normal dose they give you ain't gonna do

Scott Benner 45:07
doesn't touch you the way it touches other people. Yeah. What? How long do you think you were depressed for?

Perry 45:15
The Hill I'm still in prison now because I lost my I lost my house in the flood back in July I lost three cars and

Scott Benner 45:23
part of what I put on. There was a flood you lost your home.

Perry 45:28
You remember back in July. Do you hear anything about the big rains in eastern Kentucky?

Scott Benner 45:34
I think I did actually have a friend who lives in Kentucky. So I did hear about that. And that

Perry 45:39
was it. I was I was a victim. My house was under 10 foot of water.

Scott Benner 45:43
Oh my god. Were you there? How do you get away from something like that?

Perry 45:48
I was actually trapped upstairs because the water started coming in so fast that it started running in the house. It was probably a foot deep in the house and I have three three dogs. So I grabbed my German my first German Shepherd and I put I picked her up like just like a baby and she knew what I was doing. She wrapped her legs around my neck and hailed on the top. And I carried her to safety. Come back and I had my other German Shepherd he's standing on the coffee table because the waters rise and I grabbed him put him around my shoulders and carry him to safety. Then I come back and get my other little manager aussiedoodle and get him to safety and then come back get mama and then I went into the kitchen to kill them because by this time there's four for the water my pump Thank God this waterproof because I was walking through water and it was under

Scott Benner 46:40
way to go tandem to nicely done. Yeah, yeah. Hey, you got the dogs before your mom.

Perry 46:47
She was actually getting we had two puppies out back so that's what No, that's it. Yeah, there's two puppies that wreck she was asking you will get two puppies. I'll get these and then and then I got mom to her next door. And then I'm like I said I went into the kitchen to go kill because at least for put water in there. I went to the kitchen go kill the main power. And I took a step and took a stick and killed the main power. And by that point, there's probably five or six. I couldn't get out. I had to go upstairs and I was trapped. I was trapped upstairs. Stratton upstairs for 12 hours.

Scott Benner 47:22
Okay, okay. Wow. And then the water recedes. But then the house is just ruined after

Perry 47:26
that. Yeah, they've already tore it down. Sorry, going. What are you going to do? Move in Australia.

Scott Benner 47:34
You're going to go to a trailer. Is that what your mom's doing as well?

Perry 47:37
Yeah, moving mobile home. Okay.

Scott Benner 47:38
Okay. Did you get any? Did you have any kind of insurance coverage for the house? No, or just the dead loss? Because I mean, no, you wouldn't expect a flood there like that. Right?

Perry 47:51
It's never happened. There was actually a first time thing and they called it where my area exactly. I live in Letcher County in Whitesburg and the next little town over hazard. Kentucky and maybe Harlem was as well. But we got hit the absolute hardest. They said ours was 1000 year flood. What they call it?

Scott Benner 48:13
Oh, lucky. You know, Jesus that sucks.

Perry 48:18
It was it was the water was so strong. It was it was picking houses up off the foundation and moving on.

Scott Benner 48:25
Okay, well, that's cool. Well, because the houses are not built for that. Right now that nobody thinks.

Perry 48:31
I think. I think the final count is there's about 50 people that died.

Scott Benner 48:35
Wow. Wow, jeez, that's terrible. Oh, my God. Okay, so are you at the moment? Do you have the mobile home yet? Or are you are you staying somewhere else until then?

Perry 48:49
I'm in South Carolina right now family, but um, they're actually getting ready to move it in. Like next week.

Scott Benner 48:55
Okay. And you'll go back and then that you're going back to Kentucky then.

Perry 49:00
What do ya okay.

Scott Benner 49:03
All right. Well, your girlfriend is she where you are now or is she back in Kentucky? Now she's Yeah, she's she's in South Carolina with you. Okay, so you guys would be going together? I imagine if you went back Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I like

Perry 49:18
like, like to try and help you and I hope it

Scott Benner 49:21
works out for you. I mean, just it's absolutely insane. Do you think that your brother's like the anniversary of your brother's passing hit you harder this year because more things are going on or because the reason you let me just say for people listening. The reason you're talking to me today is because I think somebody directed you to the Facebook group for the podcast. And you put up a really like touching post about your brother. And then I think Willie sent you to me, to be honest, you don't know this about the show but the show books out like a year in advance. So you and I are recording today in December because I had like an I don't get a lot of cancellations but I just had a cancellation like If we didn't do this today, right now, I wouldn't be able to do this till like September 2023. So the timing was just really crazy. Like you were there. And I thought I was gonna, I was going to do some editing that day, but I thought all record with Perry, you know, as well. And so you're very new to the podcast and you're but but my question is, does it Does it strike you every year at his anniversary the way it did this year? Or do you think you're a little more emotional this year?

Perry 50:31
You know, he sees me for your heart and his his birthdays Valentine's Day and history pretty hard to?

Scott Benner 50:38
Yeah, I imagined it does. What do you get out of the sharing? You just are you trying to let people know how you feel? Or you're trying to let them know about him trying to keep his memory alive? Like, what is that? What's that desire to tell people about it?

Perry 50:52
Just like sick keep his memory alive. So I've tried to hold on to the good ones. And just the industrious part about grief is sometimes you'll laugh and cry over the same memory.

Scott Benner 51:04
Really? Really? That's terrible. I mean, you almost made me cry earlier, to be honest with you. People make me cry sometimes, but I don't know why. I didn't think it would happen with a guy. I know that sounds odd. But like when you started talking, I thought I'll be okay. But then when it chokes you up and I was like, dammit, I'm gonna get upset too. But but you be just you just miss them. That's what you're about to say.

Perry 51:29
Yeah, yes, it is. It's rough to talk about it's doing even after nine years. I don't expect is ever getting better.

Scott Benner 51:37
Doesn't doesn't mess with your sobriety though. You're able to kind of keep those things separate.

Perry 51:44
Well, California sober will say that

Scott Benner 51:49
means we can drink and smoke weed stuff. Yeah, yeah,

Perry 51:52
I log into no alcohol whatsoever. No drinking. Oh, I can't. That's that's like taking a shot of insulin. It just bothers me out so bad.

Scott Benner 52:02
Oh, no kidding. Okay. All right.

Perry 52:06
I shouldn't drink at all, like heart now. mixed drinks and stuff like it. Yeah, raise your sugar but like hard liquor just taking shots. You can't do that.

Scott Benner 52:12
Okay. And you don't

Perry 52:15
I know a lot of type ones that I've in another group as well. You can't wait hard liquor, you will you better eat a big meal. And they need another meal too. If you're gonna drink some liquor. That's

Scott Benner 52:25
how it hits you. Okay, and beer. You're not a fan of.

Perry 52:29
I used to like it, but I skate no more.

Scott Benner 52:31
Yeah. It's interesting. It really is interesting how things change. If we could like just kind of change direction for half a second. Not that anything anybody's going to say is going to stop anybody in their tracks. But if you could get in a time machine and go back, would you ever have touched the drugs?

Perry 52:53
If I could go back, hell no. I go back and slap me right in the face.

Scott Benner 52:59
Can you? Can you think back to that point? Why it was attractive to you back then. And what you know now? Like what's like, what would you? Like if you knew like, if you know how that kid felt? So what would you say to him to try to help them with that? Like a hill. Like if you could go find yourself as a child. Like you you know how that kid felt like so? Can you? Well,

Perry 53:26
I didn't only thing I've ever done growing up to smoke weed. I mean, most kids do that growing up and then I'd never done anything else. I didn't really know what it would actually I didn't know it's gonna ruin your year about it, but it's gonna ruin your life. And you did.

Scott Benner 53:48
It's almost so is it almost like I don't know, you're you're smoking weed and you're just looking for something different. Right? And so you try other things. You don't know the severity of how it'll grab a hold of you. And then once it's got you it's hard to just you just can't walk away from it at that point.

Perry 54:05
It's it's a revolving door man. It's so it's more mental than physical To be honest, we now heroin withdrawals are all they're really physical, like your pain sucks. And the meth withdrawals is more mental than anything. You just drive yourself crazy mentally. And that is that first because I never smoked it. I only snorted it. First time I ever sniffed it. I fell in love. I feel on top of the world. I felt like I was a king. That was the best thing. It was handier than a pocket or shirt.

Scott Benner 54:47
I love just just a physical feeling. And like because you know when people talk about it, they talked about people are in pain and they're struggling and they want to relieve that pain. That's what drinking is. That's what drugs are I think

Perry 55:00
it's the most extreme dopamine release you've ever experienced.

Scott Benner 55:04
Okay. And then And then, is it diminishing returns? Like every time you need more to get to the same place?

Perry 55:11
Oh, yeah. Now it depends on how good the quality was. And if he has a good, you know, you do a little more, but you'd be gone for 12 hours and then come back get a little more. But sometimes we wouldn't always like good.

Scott Benner 55:21
And you're not functioning for those 12 hours, right? You're just sort of like, in actually sorry about my mom was calling. Beeping in Russia, would you? I asked if you were functional during that 12 hour period? Oh, yeah. We call mom and dad. This is why we got her last during the flood No, I was functional. Actually, I was a functional method. For the most part, yeah. Made it to work. They're like are good what you do you can do during the day, that kind of stuff.

Perry 56:07
I know. I know, plain math is you know, it don't turn everybody into a zombie drugs do to you what the what you allow them to do to you? I was functional. We, you know, we went everywhere. I did everything I need to do. And you could you could tell if you really look but you know, most people couldn't even do. I gotcha. But those are the sounds were there though.

Scott Benner 56:31
Okay. All right. As I mean, we're almost an hour into this. I want to make sure. Am I missing anything from your story or anything you want to talk about that I haven't thought to bring up or direct us towards?

Perry 56:45
Oh, thanks. So that's pretty much it still an ongoing thing? And last thing, and and at the end of the year, we're chopping up to around the middle of all this.

Scott Benner 56:58
Do you think you're going to do you think you're going to be able to? I mean, it's that hard question. But do you think you're going to be able to handle the diabetes?

Perry 57:05
Oh, yeah, I got this. No, no, I do. I have to. I mean, it's like, posted on Facebook. I seen the other day, you don't know how strong your orangey hat.

Scott Benner 57:16
Yeah, it's interesting how many people you meet that have type one who who are more aware of their health now than they ever have been in their whole life. And, and how it kind of changes your focus and the way you think about things from eating to exercise and, and kind of everything in between?

Perry 57:34
Yeah, technically, now I'm actually live in the plane is live, you know, as far as you know, no alcohol, nothing like. And I try to watch what I eat and stuff like that and be moderate. And don't go crazy on sweets. And yeah, I'm trying,

Scott Benner 57:50
would you be interested in there's a whole series of episodes in the podcast with me and this woman named Jenny, who is type one for 34 years, and she's also a CTE. She teaches people how to take care of their diabetes. It's this whole series about kind of how to use insulin and, and how to manage food and everything. If you want. I'll send you a link to it. You can take a look, I think it would be helpful. Might help.

Perry 58:13
Absolutely. Yeah. Any any resource?

Scott Benner 58:17
Per you know. I don't know if you know, like, are you aware? I guess is my question. That you're, you're an interesting paradox, because your story from earlier in your life is it's insane. And then like, but you here in this moment, you're a reasonable, intelligent, thoughtful person. But you the stories you tell her about a person out of control. Like is that? Is that something you're aware of? Like as you're talking?

Perry 58:44
Oh, a different man. Now. This is the Perry that show this is the period that should have been here. This is the Perry that

Scott Benner 59:00
it feels that simple. Right, like a bad decision. And then last time, yeah, yeah. So what do you think would have helped you back then? I mean, honestly, like, you've been incredibly honest. Is this is this a function of? It doesn't sound like parenting. It sounds like your mom was concerned. Is it money? Is that is that access to things? Is it? Is it that kind of stuff, is it? I mean, I don't know how you grew up. Was there poverty involved?

Perry 59:27
Well, no, not really. It's I guess, down in South Carolina. That's why I moved to Kentucky because everything I wanted was five minutes away. I knew where to get it. I knew who to get it from, you know, I mean, it's just too accessible. And then when you move somewhere and you don't know nobody makes a lot harder.

Scott Benner 59:47
Oh, the Kentucky move was literally for for drug use and things like that. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you move to where the where the action was. I say this So now just getting clean, and then looking back on your life was enough to was enough to, to to keep you going and that I mean, it's great. How long has it been? Like? That's a good question since like, math or something like that, like, what's the last drug like that you?

Perry 1:00:16
What I think February be six years.

Scott Benner 1:00:19
Wow, that's impressive. Wow, that's

Perry 1:00:24
Buller grit to

Scott Benner 1:00:26
Yeah. And but the regret doesn't push you back to using?

Perry 1:00:30
No, now I'm past that part. I mean, what's done is done. I can't change that. So I don't focus on

Scott Benner 1:00:36
it. Dude. That's a great attitude. I was just, I was just editing an episode last night with this young girl. She's like, 21, she's got a kid, she's already been divorced. She did, she grew up really poorly. And she just took her life over, like a young girl, like just she figured out what which way was up and what the right thing to do was, and she just grabbed it by the balls, and she's doing it. And it's really, I was stunned when she was talking is a long conversation she and I had, and as I'm listening to her, I'm like, how did this girl just figure this out on her own and put herself in the right direction? She just stays the course. You know, but now you're saying the same thing. You know, it's, um, I think it's interesting for people to hear because it'd be easy to write you off. You know, it'd be easy to go back six, seven years and look at you and go, This guy's not gonna make it. But But you did. You know, and for no real reason other than you just decided to do it. Right.

Perry 1:01:33
Eventually, you get sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Scott Benner 1:01:37
Just had enough. You were like, that's enough. No kidding. Dude, it's

Perry 1:01:41
I want the last year that I was doing it. I wanted out. I didn't want to do it. I didn't know how to quit because I was mixing it with morphine and heroin and

Scott Benner 1:01:53
like, like, like hospital grade morphine.

Perry 1:01:56
Where Yeah, but my buddy had cancer. So he had he had the script. Oh, my

Scott Benner 1:02:03
God. Look at that. Listen, you're you're definitely have a lot of annuity.

Perry 1:02:08
He had he had to he had the teens. He had the Barney's but we got to Barney's the 30s. He had the gray goes what we call the 60s.

Scott Benner 1:02:16
He had has he passed since then. Yeah, he's gone. I'm sorry. No. Wow, it didn't even

Perry 1:02:25
last that last lost all my friends. I lost my little brother. And then just a couple years later, that guy with the cancer. He was one of my best friends lost him. Then the other guy, one of my friends. He killed his co just losing friends later. Ended up really being on my own. Because I was the only people

Scott Benner 1:02:43
that I talk to. Yeah, man, you're surviving.

Perry 1:02:47
Because Caleb, Caleb, that's his name. The boys cancer heat comes spent. He spent more time in my house than he did it his own.

Scott Benner 1:02:53
How old was he when he had cancer?

Perry 1:02:57
I mean, how old was he there was none with cable had that. Name was nine when they diagnosed and he even went to Mexico with him and stuff. And he beat it for a few years, you know, went to remission then he just come back with a vengeance and

Scott Benner 1:03:14
a lot of bad luck for a small group of people. That's for sure. That's terrible. Well, I'm sorry to hear about that as well. But but I'm telling you like, as far as ingenuity goes, if you said to me right now, Scott, you gotta go find morphine. If you find morphine, I'll give you a million. I wouldn't know where to get morphine from. Like, that's, that's amazing. Like it?

Perry 1:03:33
Oh, I can get the hill I can eat so right. I know where it's going.

Scott Benner 1:03:40
That's really something very impressive. Like do you spend any time thinking about what you've accomplished?

Perry 1:03:47
Sometimes Yeah, that's what I've tried to think about because I've granted a lot of things I've tried to think of the positives and not the negatives the things that I can't change that are over with.

Scott Benner 1:04:01
Yeah, I mean, I hope you're able to keep doing that because I mean, honestly, what you've described is it's a huge effort that you got to this spot I think it's incredibly unlikely to and here you are, I mean, six years is a long time to just decide I'm not doing that anymore and then honestly not do it anymore. It's really something it's I'm really It's oddly I'm oddly find myself very impressive what you did.

Perry 1:04:27
No, I didn't go to I didn't go to rehab. I locked myself in a room for three weeks.

Scott Benner 1:04:30
Yeah, I mean, you've dug a hell of a hole for yourself to climb out of and you found your way out of it. That's

Perry 1:04:36
my mom. My mom and dad both over there. You know, they're they're really good parents. They always have been but I was at the point to where they couldn't do that for me. I had to make the decision. was all me in there still, my mother and father both do a real good support system but my mother more than anything because just her knowledge Diabetes. Because when something goes wrong, I can't hurt. She knows. She know just as much as my daughter does, and she might know more. But she's very intelligent when it comes to type one.

Scott Benner 1:05:15
Okay. Wow. You know, I mean, I hear you're talking to your dad off and on right, but like, do you think they ever even privately then didn't say to you do you think they ever gave up on the idea that you're gonna be okay? Or do you think they always believed in you that you would like, I'm trying to put myself in that position,

Perry 1:05:35
then they never get they never gave up on me. They always loved me. And they just they knew, though, but it's a decision I had to make. But deep down, I'm sure they thought, you know, of course, he's going to come through this. And they I mean, they. They're really good. My parents are great. I mean, I grew up in a we're in a wonderful home. Y'all had a great childhood, good parents and stuff. So that's not where it was. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:05:59
You never felt unloved or anything like that? No, Lord, no. That you guys were just selling in views and as kids and trying to make money and, and keep it going, right?

Perry 1:06:11
Yeah. Must be honest. That was like 20. Yeah, about 25 or 24 to 27 mission. Right? Is the heart of the hard hard stuff.

Scott Benner 1:06:24
Let me ask you a question. Like selling drugs where you grew up? Is it like somebody else saying, Oh, I always knew I was gonna go to college. Or I always knew I was gonna get a job at the place down the street. Like, did you did you grow up? That was that just seemed like a viable business? endeavor for you?

Perry 1:06:42
Oh, no, that's nothing I really thought about this is something I kind of fell into how I got started with the instance I was looking for, I was looking for a job I was on Craigslist. And I seen an ad for a smoke shop. And they needed a just need someone to help manage it and run it, you know, like sell pipes and bombs knowledge, you know, I mean, and I contacted him and went down there. And he said he was just asking questions, I've asked him and he had a few things in his store already. I said I'd go out there and tell you exactly what to do with it or single one of these. He said, Okay, show me so I went out there I said you do this or this do this or this. And he almost got us in trouble one time because we sold crack pipes because we'd sell we sell at crack pipes a day. Or more. But sometimes you do your chore boy years. Know that stuff. The that's that mate that stainless steel stuff you washed dishes with?

Scott Benner 1:07:47
Oh, no, I do know. Yeah. It's got like a scouring pad.

Perry 1:07:52
You know, the one that's just the one that's just metal,

Scott Benner 1:07:55
right? No, no, it's like there's just no like, soap or anything like that on it.

Perry 1:08:00
Yeah, no, no fabric, no sofas, just a straight piece of like balled up metal. They'll take that and wrap their crack rock around it and stick it in the pipe. And because it helps to vaporize it faster, get hotter. Well, he had both of them. He had the pipes in the tour boys sitting right side by side on the shelf. I said you hate this, this suggestive selling what they call it right? I said you can't do that. I said we can sell both of these. But you got to put them in different places.

Scott Benner 1:08:28
You knew the ins and outs of the rules already. That's interesting.

Perry 1:08:33
Yeah, his store was big enough that we all we did, we kind of just sectioned it off and made another store next door and got a business license. We did it legit and everything and that's amazing. I was making. I was making a lot of money.

Scott Benner 1:08:48
And the cops know, but they don't do anything.

Perry 1:08:52
Well, at the time, it was legal. And you know, then they started banning chemicals in it. Well, then they start changing it and they change this chemical make it a different one. And then they started banning another chemical where they change it what ventually they ended up banning it completely and that's how they the legality become the way it was. Become a scheduled drug at that point.

Scott Benner 1:09:16
How worried should people be about fentanyl in their drugs? Is it everywhere but

Perry 1:09:25
honestly, the fentanyl hikers more they're hyping it up more than more than he is because now I don't condone anybody using fentanyl out side of a medical place. But as far as medically, fentanyl is the best medicine they got I dislocated my knee they gave me fentanyl right in the hotel and the floor. Is they in this not only is the only drug that is measured in micrograms it's not measured in milligrams.

Scott Benner 1:09:56
So use correctly it's a really it's a valuable drug.

Perry 1:10:00
I absolutely hate when they when they took my bankers out after I found out I was in pain they gave me some fentanyl in Britain was a great drug it used correctly. The reason it's so dangerous is because like I said, it's measured in micrograms, it takes 1000 micrograms to make a milligram. So you can see how potent that is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:26
Well listen that well enough, you should be able to count carbs.

Perry 1:10:32
I just kind of learned how much is in each thing.

Scott Benner 1:10:36
So when you're thinking when they cut, so when they cut drugs, illegal drugs with fentanyl, it's it's more of a the bigger problem is that they're using too much of it. And that's what people are doing on?

Perry 1:10:47
Yeah, they're using it the correct way because that's about the cheapest thing is coming out in Mexico. It's coming from China too. It is, it is a problem but they're hyping it up more validity is okay. Because I Okay, for example, I still see drugs from time to time, you know, I don't do but I still see them from time to time. I mean, some would be annoying it interesting.

Scott Benner 1:11:17
No, I couldn't be like I got placed the place

Perry 1:11:20
I gotta I gotta I gotta buddy. He he has some coconut. Oh, go in. They would they wouldn't know family. I mean, I haven't experienced that yet. So it's not as much of a wave as they're saying it is it is that out there. But interesting.

Scott Benner 1:11:36
Wow. What do you think of the people who talk about doing drugs safely? Like testing your drugs? First? Make sure it's what it says it is? Do you think that's a good idea?

Perry 1:11:47
Well, you mean, is it because library loads, they

Scott Benner 1:11:49
actually make test kits, like you can test your care cane. You can test your heroin. So like people who are going to use those drugs anyway. But they're getting them from places they don't know they

Perry 1:11:57
Oh, that's what you're asking. Yeah, he'll know why test and nothing.

Scott Benner 1:12:04
I had a girl on it said that they have

Perry 1:12:07
you know that that test is going to cost money? Oh, hell no. I could put that money towards something else. You know, I'm saying

Scott Benner 1:12:14
that this? These are fancy. Kids use what you're telling me? Is that using these?

Perry 1:12:19
Yes, kids and silver? Daddies purpose is

Scott Benner 1:12:24
interesting. It's interesting to hear different perspectives on on the same topic. So I appreciate you talking about like this. Okay, I mean, if you don't have anything else, I don't think I have any other questions. But I really appreciate you doing this.

Perry 1:12:40
No, I mean, I had a good time. Good. Oh, I'm gonna appreciate you getting on show.

Scott Benner 1:12:44
No, you kidding me. I, first of all, the, you know, the person that directed you to me, I'm a big fan of him. And so I was excited. To do that I'm still looking for like we do these episodes called after dark, which yours easily qualifies for? Just because, you know, people need to know that we're going to pretty much talk for an hour about drugs and doing illegal things. But, but I still am looking for someone who's been in prison for a long time with diabetes. I have found five people over five years. I haven't gotten one of them to follow through and record yet. And it usually ends up being a probation issue. Like they very they don't want to get in more trouble. So they kind of say no at the end. But anyway, that's one of the things I'm looking for. I figured I'd put it in this episode, in case anybody listening has a no somebody

Perry 1:13:36
I had, I can name you 10 TMO friends that are in prison right now. I still check from time to time. Everything's public knowledge.

Scott Benner 1:13:45
I need them to have type one though, Barry. Oh, I

Perry 1:13:48
know that. I can. I can find you when are you? That's what I'm saying. I'm not gonna find you. Let's go

Scott Benner 1:13:55
see if you can find that morphine. I think you could find that. It's partly why I brought it up. Like he might be able to do this.

Perry 1:14:01
Well, I'll get I'll text him here in a minute. He's got a phone. They all got phones in there. They'll find it take it, they'll get another one. They will never beat it.

Scott Benner 1:14:10
Yeah, just they just keep cycling like burner phones through this through the guards.

Perry 1:14:15
The guards. The guards are bringing it in because there's too many of them. There's too many palms being brought in. There's too many around. There's no way to that many phones are coming and people's assays. So

Scott Benner 1:14:27
see you do you think you think the guards do it? Because it's a moneymaker? Do you think they do it because

Perry 1:14:35
I just go and tell you I know for a fact one of the guys I used to run with Hang on, say his name don't like it, but they would make what they call bombs. It was a cell phone or prepaid card, some tobacco, some rolling papers, maybe couple of little things. And they wrapped it up tighten these little balls and they call them bombs. And they take about 25 or 30 of them and I'm To the guard that he gave them to.

Scott Benner 1:15:02
Okay, that's it. Yeah, it's everything so damn interesting. I found I found this. I found this conversation. Absolutely fascinating. I appreciate it very much donate it. While we're done talking, I'll point you towards there's there's

Perry 1:15:16
there's a lot there's a lot it's grimy and then a lot of people don't talk about that. Well, people don't even know because they don't live that life like I mean, I was I was in the trenches for two years.

Scott Benner 1:15:27
Ever see anybody killed?

Perry 1:15:30
Ever seen by killed? No, I've been held at gunpoint.

Scott Benner 1:15:33
You've been held at gunpoint. Yeah. Have You Ever Have you ever did you use the gun as part as what you were doing?

Perry 1:15:40
I was actually on my way to go. I was actually on my way to go kill him. Because I was so mad. He held me at gunpoint. He robbed me. And then I went back because I was able, I was in a place that I'm pretty rough area. But I was allowed to be in a rough area because I knew enough people. And he's just living young kid. He was only 16 years old and scared. That's what scared me because he was shaking. While he was holding his gun. I said, Oh my God, he's gonna shoot me. Because he's scared because he was scared, right? And then he ended up letting me go. And then I went to my friend and told him exactly what happened. And he told him who it was. And I was actually gonna go kill him. And then ended up somebody GreenBook he tried to rob somebody else in Greenville County seen him and then Graham kind of picked him up. So they probably saved me a prison sentence.

Scott Benner 1:16:30
Wow, you were saved. And he was saved by Him getting arrested. Yeah, that was gonna kill him. No kidding. By the way out of revenge, or because you didn't want him coming back and doing it again and killing you by mistake.

Perry 1:16:42
Just mad because I was allowed to be in there. And he's just lovely young kid didn't know who I was. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 1:16:48
I say. So a bit of a respect thing.

Perry 1:16:51
Yeah, he pays me off. Because Oh, he got in a lot of trouble. Because most of the people that I knew in there once they found out

Scott Benner 1:17:01
yeah, they got in trouble. He found that on the other end. Do you looking back on this? Do you recognize that person who would have gone and kill that kid? Me? Yeah. You still recognize where that all came from? But do you think you could do it now? Do you think of it happened again? Right now? Do you think you'd have the same reaction? Dropping right now? Yeah. So there's there's a line you're not you're not want to let somebody cross?

Perry 1:17:27
Now it may like says May in the respect thing, because that's something like it or spit in my face. Oh, my God.

Scott Benner 1:17:35
It'd be a different level. I understand. Yeah, probably. I can't thank you enough. Man. I really appreciate you doing this.

Perry 1:17:41
Thank you. No problem. He'll bring me back. Sometimes you need me.

Scott Benner 1:17:44
I think I might. I'd like to thank Perry for coming on the show, sharing his remembrances of his brother and all of his stories. Absolutely amazing. Thank you very much, Perry. I want to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six and Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitors, and remind you to go to dexcom.com forward slash fuse box to get started today. Also those diapers sorry, also those diabetes pro tips, and all the other series at juicebox podcast.com. Or by searching your player. Go find them. There. I listened. I can sit here all day and read you listen to reviews about the protests and the other series that would blow you away. But just go check them out for yourself. They're free. Go take advantage of them, please. And if you're just new to the podcast, please subscribe or follow in a podcast app like Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon music, audible anything really anywhere. You can get audio you can get the Juicebox Podcast when you find it. Subscribe and follow please. I don't think there's anything else. Oh, there's a survey. Sorry. Survey for podcast listeners is at some funky link. Oh, did you know when you click off the page dexcom.com forward slash juice box. It offers a free 10 day trial of the GS six. See to see if you're eligible for it. Anyway, there's a little tip. Anyway, this survey, right? I said anyway, a lot. I'm gonna just put the link in the show notes. There's a link to a survey. I'm trying to find out if the podcast is valuable for you around your health and well being. I appreciate if you took it. It's just for me. Nobody else will say it. We might share some broad results on social media and stuff like that, but nobody's going to know it with you. It would be really valuable for me if you could take the time. Thank you so much. I will be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.