#1510 Habit Lab: Build the System, Break the Cycle
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Ditch the 21-day hype—this episode dives into real goal-setting, sustainable habits, and the mindset shifts that make them stick. Learn how to build systems, not just wishlists, and turn motion into meaningful action.
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Scott Benner 0:00
Friends, we're all back together for the next episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Welcome.
This is part one of our four part series on Breaking Bad habits, building good habits and setting goals that are attainable. I'm joined today by Erica Forsyth, and if you're interested in learning more about Erica, you should go to Erica forsyth.com nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. AG, one is offering my listeners, a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of d3, k2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drink AG, one.com/juice box. To get this offer, don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. My diabetes Pro Tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward, practical insights that truly make a difference, this series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin dosing adjustments or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over 35 years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. The Diabetes Pro Tip series runs between Episode 1001 1025, in your podcast player, or you can listen to it at Juicebox podcast.com by going up into the menu. Today's episode is sponsored by the tandem Moby system with control iq plus technology. If you're looking for the only system with auto Bolus, multiple wear options and full control from your personal iPhone. You're looking for tandems, newest pump and algorithm. Use my link to support the podcast tandem diabetes.com/juice, box. Check it out. I'm having an on body vibe alert. This episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by ever since 365 the only one year where CGM, that's one insertion and one CGM a year, one CGM one year, not every 10 or 14 days, ever since cgm.com/juicebox so I'm going to start this series in a way that I don't think I should, because I don't want people to get scared when they hear us first talking. But I don't really know how to start this. I just know how we got here. So let me describe for a minute how I've drug Erica back into the podcast to do a series on goal setting. Is that what we're gonna call it? Yeah, goal setting. Okay. I like that. So I had found, as they say, Erica, the end of YouTube generally means that all the things you're interested in, you found the good content for, and you're done. And so YouTube started feeding me things, and I noticed very quickly that there are a lot of people on YouTube seemingly making a lot of money and having big channels by telling people how to set goals and accomplish them. And I watched one of them, and I thought, my goodness, this is common sense. I stuff. It didn't seem like there was any big secrets. And then, if that's the case, and I really believe it was, how are they getting three and four and five and 100,000 views on? Wow, common sense, right? And I thought, Well, this must be a sticking point for people. This must be something that people struggle with, or there wouldn't be so many eyes on this. And then I thought, I wonder how that human reaction interaction, I don't know. I don't even know what to call it, like a inclination, maybe. How is that? Maybe hurting people while they're trying to take care of their diabetes. And then I threw that in your lap, and you came back with all this great stuff for us to talk about. So thank you very
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:04
much. Yes, that phenomenon that you have observed with people watching these YouTube videos of how to set goals is something we're going to certainly get into. But as a teaser, it can be a form of procrastination, which we will get into you think you're doing something, yeah, you know, you're researching, you're listening, and so it feels really good, but moving it from into action, it can be really challenging, and we're going to hopefully look into some of those potential reasons why
Scott Benner 4:34
awesome. And I already have stories about my own life that I know people are going to be pissed about that I share, so that'll be great. You want to start here at the beginning. Yes, the important start at the beginning, the importance of setting goals, and why we should set goals. Go ahead, when you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, is the first thing you think about. I love that I have to change it all the time. I love the warm up period every time I have to change it. I love that when I bump into a door frame, sometimes it gets ripped off. I love that the adhesive kind of gets mushy sometimes when I sweat and falls off. No, these are not the things that you love about a CGM. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 the only CGM that you only have to put on once a year, and the only CGM that won't give you any of those problems, the Eversense 365 is the only one year CGM designed to minimize device frustration. It has exceptional accuracy for one year with almost no false alarms from compression lows while you're sleeping, you can manage your diabetes instead of your CGM with the ever since 365 learn more and get started today at Eversense cgm.com/juicebox, one year one CGM. Let's talk about the tandem Moby insulin pump from today's sponsor, tandem diabetes care, their newest algorithm control iq plus technology and the new tandem Moby pump offer you unique opportunities to have better control. It's the only system with auto Bolus that helps with missed meals and preventing hyperglycemia, the only system with a dedicated sleep setting, and the only system with off or on body wear options. Tandem mobi gives you more discretion freedom and options for how to manage your diabetes. This is their best algorithm ever, and they'd like you to check it out at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox when you get to my link, you're going to see integrations with Dexcom sensors and a ton of other information that's going to help you learn about tandems, tiny pump that's big on control tandem diabetes.com/juicebox the tandem Moby system is available for people ages two and up who want an automated delivery system to help them sleep better, wake up in range and address high blood sugars with auto Bolus. So we, as
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:59
in as human beings, and in our society, we, we are very much actually exposed to the wins, kind of the end result, like, Wow. I, you know, look at this person, they lost 150 pounds. Or in our community, wow. Look at this, A, 1c, and so we are more often over exposed to the outcome, the end result of a goal. But I think it's really important, and that's hopefully what we can achieve here, is understanding, you know, what's the process and it's important to set goals in our lives. It gives us motivation to keep going, to move towards to grow. We want to be able to focus on that process of the habit building, of the goal setting, rather than just the end goal. But that without goals, you know, we might remain stagnant. And I think it's interesting. Sorry, go ahead.
Scott Benner 7:54
I'm imagining like evolutionary ideas, right? If we came up hunting and gathering, right? Then that was your life. You got up in the morning, you had a goal. You achieved your goal. Yay. We ate. We're still alive. And then we do it again and again and again. Now you wake up and you don't, like think about that. There's, if you're lucky, and most people have some level of of, you know, in this country, at the very least food in their refrigerator. You don't get up in the morning and think, what, how am I going to eat? Right? So now I don't know, like, we've turned this kind of again, like just basic drive, and it doesn't seem like we have a place to point it. And so if you're working, you can point it there. If you have a relationship, you can put it there. I'm even seeing that. That might be why some people enjoy being in fights with other people, right? Because gives you something to do. It's a, there's a goal here. Like, I'm gonna go prove my point. I'm gonna go beat them, or tell them they're wrong, or help them along, or whatever your brain wants to tell you. And then you set the goal, you do the thing, and you get that the end result, right, which is, I guess, dopamine, or, you know, your brain gets told we did it, right? Like, there's a win at the end. Yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:01
and I'm noticing even as we're talking so we're gonna we're talking about goals, but in order to reach the goal, we're going to be discussing, you know, the habits that we need to implement to reach the goal? Yes, I think we maybe have got we get confused sometimes. Are why we do the things we do have some of our habits become just automated, and then we're receiving some kind of intrinsic reward that we're not even aware of. Yeah, for example, with kind of the fighting, but
Scott Benner 9:30
we're scrolling, even scrolling and clicking totally right? Yeah? No, I've heard a number of people talk about the idea that just like scrolling through Instagram as an example, you've given yourself the task I'm going to look at Instagram. There's your task, then you accomplish it by whipping your finger up and down, and you double tap some things. And when you're done, you actually feel like you've accomplished something, which is insane, because you've accomplished nothing like But, yes, but you go. Through the steps of setting a goal, completing the goal and getting the kick. You know, in that dopamine hit, yeah, your pre frontal cortex, you get that big hit of, like I did it, and there you go. You've accomplished something now you, you know, you stay alive Another day, another 10 days, another 20 days, and you die, and you realize you've been scrolling Tik Tok forever, all right, but it still does that thing. But how are we going to like, the reason I wanted to do this with you right is, like, how do we help people to understand goal setting and achievement and so that they can apply it to all the different aspects of diabetes that, like, if you gamified diabetes, you know what I mean? Like, you'd, you know, maybe you'd get that kick out of taking great care of your
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:39
health too. That's what I'm hoping Yes. Wouldn't that be great? I
Scott Benner 10:43
mean, I hope so. I would be it would be lovely. So my expectation and my idea here is, if we explain this how it works to people, so they know, like, what's going on in their head, you know, then maybe they can step back and reapply this idea to something else. So that's where I'm at. I appreciate you doing this with me too. Thank
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:02
you. Yes, yeah, of course, I'm happy to do this, and it's always helpful. You know, none of us are perfect, habit Makers, Builders, goal setters all the time. And so this was even helpful for me as it not only just person, but I hopefully and professionally as well. Yeah, I love this quote from James clear in it from his book atomic habits, which I will probably quote often as we discuss this topic. The quality of our lives depend on the quality of our habits. With the same habits, you'll end up with the same results with better habits, anything is possible. So I love, I mean the same, you know, sorry, you
Scott Benner 11:43
were gonna say no, not at all. Keep going, please. We
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:45
can get so frustrated with ourselves and so quickly become hard and hard on ourselves and shame ourselves for maybe the things that we can't quite achieve, and that keeps us stuck. When we change our habits, we can change our results and understanding why or how to change some of those habits is hard work, and it's not easy, but it does take some self awareness. I was
Scott Benner 12:09
gonna say that I think that being alive is a lot of effort, whether you're setting big goals and accomplishing them or not. In my that's my opinion, but I think my opinion is, is that you put out about the amount of effort every day you'd put out whether or not you were moving towards something or not. Truthfully, you know, like it's hard to slog yourself through a day of doing nothing and having no expectations for yourself, et cetera. Like, I actually find it easier to have a goal and go after it, as long as you realize. How do I want to say this? I noticed something when my kids were getting older, right as they were growing up, and they were getting ready to kind of transfer from like, you know, school into work. And the idea was, Are you just going to do this job the rest of your life? And I think that's, you know, just the colloquialism at this point, like, oh, you go to work every day, and you work and you work and work and the man doesn't care about you, and one day you'll be dead and blah, blah. What else am I gonna do? You ask people that question, what else? Oh, I you know, I could do the things I enjoy. What do you enjoy? Painting, whittling, cool? How long you doing that for? Like, you know, like, I mean, like, you gonna do that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? And maybe some people would. And that's cool, right? But I don't think there's anything wrong with getting up in the morning and going to your job and doing a good job and collecting a check for it and helping other people, or helping the company along, or whatever it is you end up doing, open a little store somewhere, like, I don't know what you're going to do. I don't see that as a waste of my life, but I think there's a time, a transition period between the adolescents and that, like, hopeful nature, that the world's going to be like magical every second. And when you come to the conclusion that, like, if I don't work, I don't have money, and I won't have food and I won't have insurance, and you're almost telling yourself that creating these tasks and doing them is a waste, but I just don't think that's right. Like, I think not only can you find a way to be valuable in the world and get yourself compensated, but you feed that part of yourself, that caveman part of yourself, that wants to get up and do a thing and do it well, and feel feel complete at the end. I think if you don't have that, you're in trouble. And so I don't see how that's any different the diabetes stuff, little things like, you know, basal testing or listening to a podcast to learn how to do something, you know, use so many times you say to somebody like, this is the way to go. And they go, I can't do that. You know what? I mean, that's not too much effort. It's too much work. And I always say, like, it's not as much effort as you're putting in now. Like doing it well, I mean, at least there's an end to that. Like, doing it poorly, doing anything poorly that you need to get out of or get past, you're just gonna get stuck there forever. Like, so, you know, set a goal, achieve the goal, but moreover, find a way to be fulfilled by that. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. That's
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:58
but, yeah, finding the purpose in it. The motivation is definitely a journey. And starting small, I think, is really important. I think before we get into, like, the nitty gritty, I love this, you know, thought around, what do we get wrong about just thinking about the diabetes piece, what do we get wrong about habit building? And oftentimes we hear, maybe on some of these YouTube videos, I don't know, or different books or you know, articles about, how long does it take to build a habit? We think, you know, we've always heard seven days to build a habit, or 21 days. And James clear talks about, well, the upside of that is that holding okay, I'm just, I'm gonna Pre Bolus for breakfast seven for the next seven days. That might get you going and get you moving. But the the downside of that is that your, your brain anchors onto that's a finish line that, okay, yeah, I'm gonna do this for seven days, and then what? Well, you know, the hope is you'll continue with that habit, but anchoring it onto this time frame messes with our brains and thinking, well, if I just do it for seven days, then I'll be fine, or 21 days, or whatever it is, then I'll be fixed, then I'll be okay. And so shifting even this, as we talk about habit building, yes, habits do form, behavior change, and behavior change can lead to different lifestyles. But really, from the get go, thinking about it as, how do I want to change the way I look and feel inside and outside. You know it's a lifestyle change, because once you stop that habit, it's no longer a habit. So
Scott Benner 16:27
it's possible the only habit you set is to do this thing for 30 days. Yes, yeah, and then you've done it. You're like, whoa, that's done. Now you see that with medication all the time, like people will have a problem, and your doctor might say, like, look, here's a medication you have to take for the rest of your life. And once they start to feel better, they stop taking the medication, and then they go, and then it's weeks later go, I don't feel good again. Oh, I forgot to take the medication. Like that. I think it's all the same thing. Now, I don't also believe there's any simple answer to this. Like, I do think that if I'm wrong, I hope we find out during during this okay, but I think that somebody who trips out of a gym that looks like they're solid muscle, and it's coming in six different directions. I think they're wired differently than I am. I just went to do dumbbells every day, just dumbbells, and so I couldn't do them. So I brought them into my office, didn't work. Then I put them next to my desk. Didn't work. I think if I put them on top of my head. I'd learned to live with them up there without actually doing the dumbbell exercises. And maybe I'm wrong, like, maybe we'll get to the end of this, and I'll take that one thing and I'll see if I can't follow our own advice and make it work. That's what I'm going to try to do, at least because I'm getting old, I don't want to reach up one day and my shoulder just go, no, don't do that. I'll do that. So you so what if? So what we get wrong about about habits is connecting them to a time frame. Okay, and we need to see them as a lifestyle change. But what does that mean, though? Like when you think of it just from your perspective, what constitutes a lifestyle change?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:56
Yes, what I love is how I've never heard really it discussed this way is, James talks about envisioning the person that you want to be, the identity that you want to become, and holding on to that as your driver, taking your example, like, why do you want to lift weights? I
Scott Benner 18:17
just think my arms should be stronger. That's it. Like, I don't have, like, that's and I think that might be part of my problem, is that I don't have a bigger idea behind it. I just think it's a thing I should do. And I live in a modern world, and the truth is, I'm accustomed to needing something and then replacing it with a thing that does that thing. I've never been a person who's seen my body as myself, meaning, like, I don't talk about this in weight loss episodes, but I don't. If you ask me to describe me, I would never describe my physical appearance, like I would just get the thoughts in my head or how I feel about things, or how I treat people, or the things I struggle with, like those are who I am. I don't see myself like this feels like a like a meat shell to me, like I don't see it as me, and I know that's wrong, by the way, but like, I just don't, I don't have that connection. Maybe my fix isn't so much about, like, learning to pick up the dumbbells, but more of making the connection that you know who I am is also the thing I walk around in, yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:17
and so creating what he calls the identity based habit, is a lifestyle change you're holding onto. Okay, who do I want to become? And then that drives the daily decisions, actions, habits, as opposed to, I mean, maybe it is. I just I want my arms to be stronger. But then I would ask, Well, why? Why do you want arms to be stronger? Yeah, because
Scott Benner 19:39
when I get old, I don't want to struggle. Like, I see people who have, like, muscle wasting problems. But here's the funny thing, and I think this might be where the overlap, like, with people who are thinking about their diabetes will come into, I don't want my body to be stronger. I don't care. I just don't want a problem. Does that make sense? Like, and so like, maybe. Thinking about it that way, what I imagine people listening or thinking is, I don't want to put all this time into diabetes, like, I don't want this thing to exist at all. I just don't want high low blood sugars, you know, I don't want retinopathy 20 years from now, like, this isn't really a thing I'm interested in being involved in. I think maybe my dumbbells and some people with diabetes might be the same exact problem.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:21
Yes, so you want to be healthy enough. Maybe that's not the right No,
Scott Benner 20:26
I want my car to keep running because it's carrying my brain and my thoughts around in it, and that's who I see myself as. Like. I want to be here longer to interact with people, not to like, lift things. But I also don't want to not be strong enough to get myself out of bed or something like that. And I know I, I mean, as I'm saying this, what I'm hearing is Scott stopped being a child. This is what it is like. That's what I'm hearing in my head. I'm like, You're fighting against, like, I don't want that. Wow. Like, that's how it feels. But like, this is the, this is the game. If I want the one thing, then the these things are hand in hand. You guys can't see Erica watching me. I know I well, I love that. Colby figuring it out.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:10
You therapized yourself, you said, but I hear myself saying, which is, that's my line.
Scott Benner 21:16
I'm just watching your face. I'm like, this idiot doesn't even need me here. He could talk to a wall and come up with this. I don't know why. I've never thought about that way. I guess because I didn't stop to talk about it. And truth is, that's why I wanted you here again, like going back to you know how this all got set up? Like I saw people on YouTube making very popular videos which translate into very popular channels, which should translate into a ton of money. And I thought they're taking advantage of this problem that people have, because they're never really going to deliver an answer to most of them. They're going to keep them caught in that like cycle of, like you said, like the paying attention to it can feel like doing it, which is, I'll listen to the guy on YouTube, and then I'll be successful, and then 10 years from now, you're like, that didn't work out for me, like, you know, like, that kind of thing. But for 10 years, I got to feel like I was doing it. I felt I felt like that was terrible. Listen, I'm sure there are plenty of people doing it who want to help people. I don't think that the answer is telling them, these are the steps I took, and that's why I'm successful and you're not. I think the way to go about it is to show them this is how your brain works around this, and that should give you an opportunity to step back from it. I don't see a different way, because I don't think laying out a set of instructions for a brain that doesn't want to see them is going to help anything. And
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:40
what we were kind of laughing at a few minutes ago is actually kind of the crux of it is have pausing and having the self awareness around either the barriers or any reason why you're having a challenge in moving forward and in starting the habit maintaining the habit is that self awareness of like, what and what is it? What is your identity that you're wanting to shape? Do you want to
Scott Benner 23:07
put more into this, or do you think this is a good episode, and we can move forward in another part? I
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:12
think just ending with we actually are doing habits all day long, too that we just to kind of celebrate that, like we are constantly automating many of our habits, like brushing our teeth. And after you brush your teeth, you pick up the floss right like you no longer think about that, but that's a habit that you have established. Or if you blow dry your hair after you done, you unplug the blow dryer and you put it back in your cabinet, or with the coffee maker, whatever. I just think that's important to note that a we are constantly exercising habits every day that is wonderful and healthy, and we can also develop other habits in that way. We are talking about the more kind of just intrinsic. You know that the desire to change. We all want. We all have the desire to transform, but it's hard to make those changes. And again, my hope within our discussion is that maybe some of these habits can become automated and to be kind and gracious to yourself in this process as we talk about it,
Scott Benner 24:22
you the podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by tandem diabetes care. Learn more about tandems, newest automated insulin delivery system, tandem Moby, with control iq plus technology at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox there are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox podcast.com I'd like to thank the Eversense 365 for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every 14 days, you want the Eversense. CGM, ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM. Thank you so much for listening. Don't miss the next episode of this series. It's in your podcast player. Go. Go find it right now and learn more about Erica Forsyth. At Erica forsyth.com the podcast contains so many different series and collections of information that it can be difficult to find them in your traditional podcast app. Sometimes. That's why they're also collected at Juicebox podcast.com go up to the top, there's a menu right there. Click on series, defining diabetes. Bold beginnings, the Pro Tip series, small sips, Omnipod, five ask Scott and Jenny. Mental wellness, fat and protein, defining thyroid, after dark, diabetes, variables, Grand Rounds, cold, wind, pregnancy, type two, diabetes, GLP, meds, the math behind diabetes, diabetes myths and so much more, you have to go check it out. It's all there and waiting for you, and it's absolutely free. Juicebox podcast.com. Hey, what's up? Everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better, and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way recording, doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you, wrong way, recording.com. You got a podcast? You want somebody to edit it? You want rob you?
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