#1510 Habit Lab: Build the System, Break the Cycle
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Ditch the 21-day hype—this episode dives into real goal-setting, sustainable habits, and the mindset shifts that make them stick. Learn how to build systems, not just wishlists, and turn motion into meaningful action.
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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.
Welcome back, friends. This is part three of my four part series on building good habits Breaking Bad ones and setting goals. Of course, I'm joined today by Erica Forsyth, who you can learn more about@ericaforsyfe.com Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. AG, one is offering my listeners a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of d3, k2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drink. AG, one.com/juicebox to get this offer, don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com check out my algorithm pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod five loop, Medtronic 780 G twist, tandem control, IQ and much more. Each episode will dive into the setup features and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type one diabetes management. We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care. If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the algorithm pumping series in the Juicebox Podcast. Easiest way Juicebox podcast.com, and go up into the menu, click on series, and it'll be right there. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is brought to you by my favorite diabetes organization, touched by type one, please take a moment to learn more about them at touched by type one.org, on Facebook and Instagram. Touched by type one.org. Check out their many programs, their annual conference awareness campaign, their D box program, dancing for diabetes. They have a dance program for local kids, a golf night and so much more touched by type one.org. You're looking to help, or you want to see people helping people with type one. You want touched by type one.org. I'm having an on body vibe alert. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since 365 the only one year where CGM, that's one insertion and one CGM a year, one CGM one year, not every 10 or 14 days. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox the episode you're about to listen to is sponsored by tandem Moby, the impressively small insulin pump. Tandem Moby features tandems, newest algorithm control iq plus technology. It's designed for greater discretion, more freedom and improved time and range. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, Erica. We are back today. We're going to pick up where we left off the last time in our conversation about goal setting and habit building and breaking. So when we left off in the first episode, we were being a little more general. Today, we're going to dig down a little more into building a system, actually putting it into practice, being consistent.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:39
Yes, yes. So as I referenced in the first two episodes, I really like James clears book on atomic habits, and he really emphasizes, you know, we often are so focused on the end result that that can trip us up. And so he wants encourages us to focus on building a system, or the process of getting to your goal. And he says, You don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. So we can talk about example of like a job, and then also in a diabetes example. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.
Scott Benner 4:19
But I want to know a little more about why does the focus on the goal get in the way?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:26
A lot of it is because, as a society, and I think we might have mentioned this earlier, we're so focused on the end result. That's what we see, that's what we post in social media, that's what news reports, is the end result, and what often is not shared or reported or celebrated, is the daily grind to reach the goal. Okay, that's a part of our culture, our society. It's not newsworthy to say I got up and I pre bolused And I went and exercised and you. Five years later, this is my A, 1c, and this is how I feel and look and how I function, like we just we so focused on the end result. Yeah,
Scott Benner 5:08
me almost like, if, if my doctor were to say to me, Hey, your vitamin D is low, that might be why you're feeling a little sleepy. And then three days into taking vitamin D, I'm like, I don't feel any better. This isn't working. That that which happens, right? Yeah,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:21
okay, and yes. And then to be consistent in the process, which we'll get into. For the example, the job, right? So we want, if you want to get a new job, the goal is getting hired is getting the job, but the system is everything that you've done to actually get that offer for that position, right? It's all your past, your past jobs. It's your the interview process. It's how you created your resume. It's your in, you know, the people skills? Yeah,
Scott Benner 5:51
it might be adding more skills before you even put yourself out there for it, right? Yes. And then that's a new pre, Oh, that's interesting. And then that's a new process. If I look up and I say, I need a new job, but first I need to know how to do this. Now I have a process where I need a new job, and I have a process where I have to learn how to do this. And if we get goal focused on both of them, neither end up happening. Probably
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:16
you can get stuck. Stuck. Yes, yes. Like, if you're just like, I just need to get a new job. I just need to get a new job. But rather breaking it down, like, what is the system to get there is, yeah, do I need to take some classes? Do I need this experience over here? In this department, it's hard, it's hard work.
Scott Benner 6:34
You have to embrace the process that gets you to the end. Yes, right? That's where the joy has to come in from the oh, you know, it's so interesting. This is how I explained when I was first a stay at home father, and in the beginning, I saw the job as just like, feed the kid, keep the kid clean, don't let the kid die. Like, right? Like, there you go. And not too long into it, I started to recognize this isn't what my wife would do. She had more mothering instincts, et cetera. I was skipping steps and just being happy that at the end he didn't die at the end of the day. And then I was like, Oh, you're being kind of robbed of these other things. And when I first started doing them, I did them because I knew they were necessary, but not because they felt natural to me. And then I started feeling like I was fighting against myself, because it felt like, at first, I was doing a bunch of things I wasn't interested in doing, but I knew how important they were, so I kept going the way I fixed that was to consciously one day say that I need to find joy in these things. I used to have a picture of what my life would be. Part of it didn't include going to the park at two o'clock in the afternoon. Like, you know what I mean? Like I thought I was going to be working towards a job or a career or something like that, and it felt almost like doing the right thing was a waste of my time. And the only thing that changed there was my attitude about it. I just said to myself, like, I'm gonna see these small steps as very important and decide to take joy out of them. Then as soon as I did that, it was okay. Is that similar to this? Well,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:10
it's similar in that it's about the identity, right? And that's what we talked about also in the first two the identity based habits at first you were maybe functioning in a way that you thought you should, or that maybe Kelly would do it, but then you shifted your identity to like, I want to be a great father, and I'm going to find joy in this, and I'm going to take steps to be that great father with the passion, joy, interest,
Scott Benner 8:40
sliding that into the idea of diabetes, if you're looking at an eight a one scene, you want a six, or you're spiking to 250 a meal, and you don't want to. You can't just sit there and say, I want to be like those people I see online who that's not happening to. Oh gosh, that's not happening. I give up. You have to say to yourself, I have to find joy in being the person who figures this out and takes these steps, goes through this process so that one day I can be in the shoes of the person that I want to be, I can make myself into the person I would like to be. Is that right? That feels right, but I'm not sure. Yeah,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:15
I mean, and that's how you shifted your habits and created a process that was enjoyable for you. I see that is, that is right,
Scott Benner 9:22
but there's a ton of other ways to accomplish that too.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:25
Yes, yes. And so this is kind of melding into what I guess I particularly like about how James clear articulates habit building, is that we are emotional beings, and there is emotion connected to each decision we make, each habit we build, and you have that end goal of like you wanted to create purpose in that new lifestyle that you had, and you found purpose and joy and passion, because that's your identity shifted in that process, the focus on building a system rather the end goal. With like the diabetes, okay, I want to have a 6.0 a 1c in a year. You can get so fixated on that, but your three month checkup, you're not you didn't budge. Your agency didn't budge. But breaking it down to what? What does a 6.0 a 1c person do for breakfast? How
Scott Benner 10:18
do they address a spike later? When did they change their pumps? Like stuff like that?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:23
Yeah, yes. And starting so small, it's not
Scott Benner 10:26
so much what I did. It's more about the reasons I did them. In context, we're talking to other people, like, yes, you don't need to take my steps to get to this thing, yes, but you more need to have the the reasons why I was able to take those steps and why I was able to stick with it. Like you have to find that in your own life and apply to your issue,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:46
yes, the self awareness and what, what is, why does it matter? Okay, what matters for you, in conjunction with the actual if it's hard to make that first habit or make that first step in building that habit, we're going to get into that, but we're still kind of high level, like shifting your day to day function, the choices you make, and then that becomes your new process to reach your
Scott Benner 11:09
goal. Am I the only one whose brain warms up when I get to the third level of thought on something? Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, I'm juggling balls in my head. I'm like, I have this idea. I understand this idea now, okay, and now there's this aspect to it. So I have these two ideas that I have to keep going at the same time. Then I'm like, Oh, God, I've got to apply them both to a third thought. That's where I can literally feel myself getting hot. I'm like, Oh, I don't know if I've got the brain power for this, for this next step. Well, you do, you did, yeah, but you helped me find it. I didn't. I wouldn't have found it by myself. So okay, all right, so talk about that then. This episode is sponsored by tandem Diabetes Care, and today I'm going to tell you about tandems, newest pump and algorithm, the tandem mobi system with control iq plus technology features auto Bolus which can cover missed meal boluses and help prevent hyperglycemia. It has a dedicated sleep activity setting and is controlled from your personal iPhone. Tandem will help you to check your benefits today through my link, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, this is going to help you to get started with tandem, smallest pump yet that's powered by its best algorithm ever control iq plus technology helps to keep blood sugars in range by predicting glucose levels 30 minutes ahead, and it adjusts insulin accordingly. You can wear the tandem Moby in a number of ways. Wear it on body with a patch like adhesive sleeve that is sold separately. Clip it discreetly to your clothing or slip it into your pocket head. Now to my link, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, to check out your benefits and get started today. When you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, is the first thing you think about. I love that I have to change it all the time. I love the warm up period every time I have to change it. I love that when I bump into a door frame, sometimes it gets ripped off. I love that the adhesive kind of gets mushy. Sometimes when I sweat and falls off. No, these are not the things that you love about a CGM. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 the only CGM that you only have to put on once a year, and the only CGM that won't give you any of those problems, the Eversense 365 is the only one year CGM designed to minimize device frustration. It has exceptional accuracy for one year with almost no false alarms from compression lows while you're sleeping, you can manage your diabetes instead of your CGM with the Eversense 365 learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM. So, okay,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:50
so kind of the identity based habit forming, building the system is really important, rather than just focusing on the end goal. I love this. This quote too, by James says, Your life bends in the direction of your habits. And he talks about, you know, each each behavior you make is a vote towards that person you want to become. So even in your example of, like, gosh, I don't know if I wanted to be going to the park, you still went to the park at two o'clock. That was a habit, you know. So your life is bending in that direction of becoming a father, yeah. And then you kind of shifted the identity of like, how am I going to make this meaningful and purposeful and bring passion and joy to that? That was that self awareness piece bringing meaning to the habit. I have
Scott Benner 14:38
to tell you, too, it was worth it, because last night some 25 years later, we sat around at the end of the day, after everybody got done working and everybody got done going to school, from like nine till 10pm we played a board game together called worst case scenario, and we had a great time. And it wasn't lost on me that I don't think a lot of 53 year old men would be like, you know how I want to end my 30. First day, you know what I mean, like and and I loved it. And it's not a thing. If you would have taken me back 26 years ago, I wouldn't have loved it. So it's really interesting. I did, I guess I did bend myself towards that. Well, listen, if I can do it, anybody can, because, as you just heard, once, I have two ideas in my head, I start to get overwhelmed. Okay, what else do you have here? Okay,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:22
okay, as we're talking about even maybe as you're listening, perhaps you're in a season of wanting to create new habits reach new goals. You're reading all the books and you're listening to, you know, podcasts and you're listening to this episode, those are all really helpful, you know, choices and behaviors that you're making to try and change or create a new habit. However, you can maybe get stuck in this preparation phase, and James talks about it in this, you know, motion versus action. So motion, it might feel like you're doing something towards your goal, such as listening or reading, or maybe you're buying some exercise equipment, or you're trying to change, maybe your pump technology. You're doing all these things that, again, can be helpful because that you're learning, you're gathering information, maybe you're gathering new gear, but it could also be a form of procrastination. So if you find that you're stuck, kind of preparing lists or buying all the items, or organizing your space, or thinking about how to achieve your goal, or you're thinking about what's prohibiting you or preventing you from achieving your goal. You could be stuck in this space of motion again, which is a necessary step, but if you feel like, gosh, I just can't get out of this, rhythm of preparation, there might be some subconscious procrastination versus action, which is actually Okay, getting on the floor and doing the push up, or actually pre bolusing for one meal a day. You know, whatever the process is that you're wanting to implement. Yeah.
Scott Benner 16:57
So here's where I'd like to talk about this idea. And if you tell me it doesn't jive with what we're saying, just cut me like, literally cut me off the knees, and I'll stop. But I saw a documentary a number of years ago that was made by people who were programming social media platforms, and they said that they were very, very confident that what they did was they gave you the illusion. It actually has a name, illusion of productivity. They give you the illusion through dopamine responses that literally just scrolling is accomplishment. It drives you to spend more time in the app, which is, in the end, what they want, but it translates to them for higher ad revenue, better performance for their metrics, et cetera. What it does for you is it completely wastes your time, but leaves you, I guess, it exploits your cognitive biases. It leaves you feeling like you've accomplished something when you haven't. And to kind of go back a little bit to what I talked about in an earlier episode of this. This all came about because I was online looking at what people were doing, and I got mad that quote, unquote, productivity content creators, what I saw them actually doing was just visually making you scroll. They were giving you the illusion that by listening to how they made $10,000 this month, you were going to but that is never going to translate for you, but it keeps you coming back, and all it does is make them money on your eyeballs. When that made me angry, and I saw that, I then started thinking about it, like I said earlier, based in diabetes. And like, how often are people, like, getting stuck in the like, oh, I listen to the Pro Tip series, and you should do the stuff in the Pro Tip series now. Like, so I thought first step here is to explain to people that this might be happening to them. And then I'd like to, moving forward, you know, actually take those pro tip episodes and break them down in ways that you can use them, like, like, little like, quizlets, almost like, like, you know, you could listen along with, yes, you know, with a breakdown in front of you visually, of, like, hey, at this, you know, at this time marker. We're talking about this. This is why that's important. And then go down at the end, maybe there's, like, a five or six question, a little quiz that makes sure you understood it, that you can move on and listen to the next one. Oh, which I don't want to, like, let the cat out of the bag, but I've already, you know, pretty far into this already, but that's coming to you because I was literally incensed by the idea that someone was tricking you into thinking you were bettering yourself, you know, and anyway, yes, so
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:26
that they're tapping into what we as human beings, we get caught up and it's, it's a good thing to spend some time in in the motion, stage right, educating yourself, learning how somebody else did it, gathering the supplies. But it's a really easy for us to get stuck in that space, because our mind is thinking, Oh, we're actually we're working towards the goal. Almost
Scott Benner 19:50
got my $10,000 I've listened to the guy, you know, I'll do I'll listen to him three days from now, when he puts out that other video, and then I'll probably have my 10 grand soon. And. And yes, that illusion of productivity kicks in and you forget the reason you're watching the videos, because you are accomplishing things. You're watching the videos. Yes, trust me, yes. Oh, made me mad, yes. Still mad, by the way, yeah,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:13
you're watching the videos, you're buying the equipment, you're listening to the episodes. And those are, again, those are all really necessary and healthy tips, if you keep moving, yes, yeah, right, yeah. It is sticky place, and a lot of us get stuck in this in this spot. I'm
Scott Benner 20:29
just going to tell you, if I look at the views on those videos, by my measure, 8 million of you should be millionaires right now, and I don't know why you're not, because you watch the videos a zillion Oh, man, it really pissed me off. Erica, I can't tell the idea that they stole your time from you to exchange it in for what is not really like, in the end, that much money. Like YouTubers aren't making, like, some of them make crazy money, but yeah, you get 100,000 views on something, 500,000 views on it. Like they might make a few $1,000 but they're not, like becoming wealthy, like they're literally wasting you away for a few grand, and it just wait. It made me All right, let's get past the part, because now I feel like I'm accomplishing something and I'm not.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:13
All right. Well, it is. It's frustrating and it is. It is a psychological issue that we all, we all kind of wrestle with. Yeah, we just think it's important to bring that up, that we might get stuck in that motion stage versus the action stage moving forward. Then how do you, how do you get out of that motion? Kind of gathering information, researching, learning, again, with with the atomic habits. He really emphasizes starting small. We are in such an all or nothing thinking society. I got a Pre Bolus every meal, every day. Everything I eat failed, yeah? Or, you know, it's a Monday mentality, right? Like, I'm going to start the thing on Monday, or I was trying not to eat this or that, and I ate it, you know, one meal, so I'm going to eat it the next meal. I only want to exercise one hour a day. Oops, I didn't have an hour today, so I'll do it tomorrow. Yeah. And if
Scott Benner 22:08
you don't know if this is you or not, if you're currently paying a gym membership, but you've never been to the gym, or your clothes are hanging over top of a Stairmaster or something like that, this might be you. That idea of like, wow, I'm going to do it. I did it. I bought the thing. It's happening now and then, then it turns out that buying it made you comfortable, that you did something already, and now it's over again. Oh, man,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:28
yes. So being, you know, it's the consistency over intensity. He tells the story about James does in his book, about this guy who has lost a certain amount of weight and has kept it off for 10 years. But he started off by going to the gym every day, and he only was there for five minutes, and he wouldn't stay any longer. So he would he would walk into the gym, he would do whatever he could for five minutes and walk out. And what he was doing is not only being consistent, because he did that every day, but he was making a habit and behavior around the identity who we want. He wanted to become someone who was healthy and physically strong. So he's reinforcing that identity and then making that consistency. So then over time, once the habit was established, he can then fluctuate and make it stronger, bigger, better, longer, and
Scott Benner 23:21
if he misses a day, it's not the end of the world because he doesn't just give up, because he's got this habit built already.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:27
Yes, expectation for himself. Absolutely, I'm gonna write down a
Scott Benner 23:31
little thing I'm gonna do for my I'm not gonna share with all of you right now, but I'm gonna write it down for myself, because I like that idea. Okay, yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:38
and I can't remember. I loved this quote that I've heard Brene Brown say, I can't remember if we if I already said it in one of the previous episodes, but she was quoting someone who said the the heaviest weight in the gym is the door that you have to pull open to walk into the gym. Did I say that already? And I miss
Scott Benner 23:58
No, but I love that. No, it's not, I don't think it's wrong. I mean, all those little examples you just ran through, like you just did, like a rapid fire of examples, of ways you might, you know, fall into this. I was like, God, I know somebody who does every one of those things we all do I do. Yeah, and I was some of those people. I wanted to ask Erica, how many more generations until our brains work better. Like, how much longer do we, like, you know what I mean? Like, if we were cavemen at one point, we're here now. Like, when are we going to get to the point where we can't be fooled by flicking our finger up a piece of glass?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:33
We and we have to kind of, yeah. I mean, not, not fool ourselves. But we get so overwhelmed by these grand goals and these and we see what people are announcing on social media, and we we just we can get so scared and threatened and stuck thinking, how am I ever going to reach that goal? How am I ever going to reach that a, 1c, how am I ever going to look this way? How am I ever going to write a book and breaking it down in. To he also gave this example of like, okay, let's say you want to read 30 books a year. Okay, that might feel really overwhelming. Well, that translates to reading one page a day. You can read one page a day. So I just love that, breaking it down into small bites in the beginning that might feel fruitless, it might feel really, really silly, but you're building that habit, that identity, that behavior, like,
Scott Benner 25:23
almost like building the pyramids. Like, imagine day one where they're like, so we're gonna put a block of stone here, and then eventually it's gonna be how big most of us would've been like, I don't think we're gonna do that, yeah. But somebody said, No, let's do it, you know. And now look how many you know, literally, like, generations later, the thing they did is still there, and you could do that for yourself in your own life, you know, like, yes, yes. Create a thing that you could look up at 20 years from now and think, like, 20 years ago, I did a thing and, like, I'm still benefiting from it today. It's, it's pretty awesome.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:56
Yes, all right, shall we keep going? Or shall we pause? Okay, okay, so how do you start? How do you build the good habit? And again, this is just using the James clear atomic habit framework. There are so many other ways to do it, but I particularly am drawn to this, these four. He calls them like the Four Laws of behavior change. So the first one, I'll read over them, and then we can go into depth. Make it obvious, make it attractive, make it simple and make it satisfying. Okay, so the first one, how do you build a good habit? Well, you make it obvious. This could be an setting out the out the workout outfit for yourself, any kind of cue that you can put out in public that triggers, okay, I I'm gonna do this thing he talks about. I'm trying to think of some good, you know, diabetes examples. When you start your coffee, have a little note on the coffee pot and say, Okay, I'm gonna Pre Bolus now. And so by the time that your coffee is done, this is, you know, if you're using a drip coffee maker, you Pre Bolus, you set your coffee 10 minutes the coffee's ready, or five minutes, whatever. But you've already Pre Bolus, and you've made it obvious for yourself. If you are trying to heal, I love this example too. If you're trying to minimize time on your phone, keeping your phone in another room for a portion of the day, like making it obvious so that your brain has to do either an extra step to do the habit or not take an extra step to do the habit. Okay, does that make sense? I
Scott Benner 27:34
do that when I get up from my desk, I don't touch my phone. I leave it here. When I go to the bathroom or go to the kitchen or whatever I end up having to go. Do? I leave it here on purpose. And it's, it's kind of interesting how after a while, 2030, minutes later, you don't think, oh, I don't have my phone anymore. Your brain rewires itself pretty quickly on stuff like that,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:53
yes, but if you keep it in your pocket, you and you're walking around the house, you feel it, and you think, Oh, I bet I should probably check. I'm going to scroll. I'm gonna check my email, I'm gonna check my text, whatever. But making any kind of habit obvious enough for your brain that has to either, yeah, work an extra step or not work an extra step to actually implement it, make it attractive. He talks about for like environment is really important. What does the space encourage so if you walk into a room and all of the couches and chairs are facing the TV, as most of us have in a family room, that space encourages us to sit, to get together, but we're focused on facing the TV, as opposed to flipping the chairs or so maybe you have two chairs facing the couch in the TV room, where does your exercise equipment? But, you know, placed, where's your I'm mostly focused on pre bolusing, because that's often the thing that I always want to work on, and my people that I know want to work on, right?
Scott Benner 28:55
Well, I mean, you could avoid aisles in the grocery store that would change what's in your in your refrigerator, you know, like that kind of stuff. Like, I've told that story a million times, like, I before I knew what I was doing, I just followed people who looked healthy around the grocery store and only went in the aisles they went into, you know, like, that kind
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:11
of stuff, yeah. So that's that would be breaking the bad habit, right? So making it unattractive for you,
Scott Benner 29:18
I would imagine, also, like decreasing clutter would help not being in a cluttered area. My son was ranting at my wife about this the other day. The clutter makes you feel like you need to clean. It makes you stressed. It gives you decision fatigue, because there's so many things to do like that kind of stuff, right?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:34
Yes, that is, that is so good. So yeah, being aware of what's what's around you. So creating an environment that leads you to implementing or doing the habit that you want to do, whatever it may be, whether it's, you know, journaling and he said, too, if you want to start a new habit, it's really important to maybe do it in a different space in which another habit exists. For example, let's say you want to journal, or don't sit down and journal at seven or eight o'clock at night, when that's in the family room, when you're used to sitting in the family room at seven, eight o'clock at night and turning on the TV. Do it in a different room, a different time.
Scott Benner 30:16
It doesn't entice that other thing. Yes, yeah. Okay, so those are I just think
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:21
the environment is a really interesting one to think about, because we might not always we think it's just, like willpower, we gotta, like, go for it.
Scott Benner 30:29
No, that's why I cook in the bathroom. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:33
we are so stimulated and triggered by what our eyes see, yeah, and in the space that we're in,
Scott Benner 30:40
right? I mean, okay, it's a leap a little but, like, road rage is a good example of that. Like a thing happens and, like, a bell goes off, and you're like, now I'm gonna do this, like, you know, like that, and some people don't like so I get the point, like, you're in the wrong place for the wrong thing. My wife goes outside to read a lot because I think it takes her away from the place where she cooks, or the place where she works, or the place like she's, like, I have to leave these places, because the longer you leave her there, she just keeps doing it, you know, yes, yeah, I gotcha.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:10
Okay, so she's created that environment to cue and to protect herself too, like that's her private space to read and is not being pulled in other directions, right? That's awesome. This
Scott Benner 31:20
next one, make it simple and convenient. I mean, that seems obvious, but what is that about?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:25
Okay, so this is kind of what we've been talking about starting this is, again, if you are wanting to make a change and you're feeling overwhelmed by how many steps you feel like it's going to take, or how many days it's going to take to reach that goal to you've got to break it down. And if you to do it just for two minutes each day, for example, you want to be a strong person. You have to start, to start with one push up per day. And it feels and I, and I've been actually kind of playing around with this push up concept, because you feel like, Oh, that's so silly, but I want to be stronger, but you can do one push up, or maybe it's five push ups, and the habit must he says, the habit must be established before it can be improved. So just really, really be kind to yourself and say, What can I do for two minutes each day to reach my goal of looking this way, feeling this way, having to say 1c and
Scott Benner 32:26
having a wider view of time too, not just feeling like this has to be fixed in a week or a month or I'll definitely tell you that the GLP meds for the weight loss that finally helped me be patient with that kind of stuff, because I would lose weight on my own sometimes, like, Oh, I lost 10 pounds, but it took a month, and it was way too intense. And, you know, not sustainable. And all the things you hear people say that you think, Oh, those are obvious when people are telling you, but when they're happening to you, they're not so much. And the medication was, it was almost like the one push up idea, like, I'll inject it once a week, and I'll definitely do it on this day. And then I stuck to that, and then the rest of it, I didn't have to think about, and that stuff started happening. So, you know, to that day where, like, You're four weeks into your one push up, and you're like, you know, I'm gonna bust out two of these push ups. And you don't have that feeling of, like, oh, I wasted my time, or this isn't happening quickly enough or something, if you can let go of those ideas, like it's not happening quickly enough, and therefore I'm wasting my time instead of seeing it as it will happen eventually. And I'm otherwise wasting my time, I'm literally wasting my life by not accomplishing anything. Like I'd rather accomplish something that took two years than not accomplish something that took no effort over five years. I don't that makes sense or not, but yes, is that stating what I'm trying to say? Like, run me over here, because I'm not sure I got
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:48
out. No, it is. It is because what you're relinquishing with, you know, with a SMART goal, it's always time oriented, like, smart, measurable, achievable. What's the I forget the R at the moment and having a time. So like, in six months, I am going to have reduced my a, 1c, by point five, or in six months, I'm going to weigh this X amount or read these many books. But it's not about the time, right? It's about shifting who you are, your identity and trusting that these small habits that you develop consistently are going to shift who you are intrinsically. Because
Scott Benner 34:31
two years later, someone said to me, one day, do you want a Dorito? And I went, No, I'm okay. Thanks. I don't know how I got to that point. It wasn't a struggle. It wasn't even a thought, man. I was like, No, I don't want that. I think it can be attractive to say that if it's not happening fast enough, then I'm wasting my time or my effort, instead of seeing the actual waste that's happening by you not making any changes. Yes, and that's harder to see because of I mean, it's just hard to take. Enough of a of a macro view of something to absorb. You know, a timeline of years when you're really focused on today. Like, I hear people all the time say, like, when's my kid gonna learn how to do this? Or doing how to do that? I'm like, they'll learn it eventually. Like, just keep going. I used to use this example all the time. I think that parents, overzealous parents, ruin things by now. You have to put your kids in daycare, like preschool, or they won't be ready for kindergarten. They're like, Well, I wanted to be able to count and read by the time they get to kindergarten. I was like, that's the thing they learn in kindergarten. Now, you forced everybody to send their kid to preschool in the end, they all know how to read when they're you know, done. You know what I mean, like they don't know, they don't know algebra and reading at the end of kindergarten because they went to this but it all, it feels like I have to pack all this in right now. We've got to make these big leaps. And what I'm saying is, I guess what I'm saying is, slow and steady wins the race. I mean, are just old sayings really what we should just be blurting out here. Yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:57
slow and steady wins the race. But it's so counter intuitive. It's so counter culture. We are always bombarded with. I mean, just like the YouTube thing that you referenced, make this amount in this many days, lose this amount in this many days, and we are having to fight what we're being exposed to and and also the competition factor. Yeah, right. We're always comparing ourselves to our neighbor and because we just are human. It's just human nature. I would
Scott Benner 36:26
say that it's bad enough that the YouTuber is out there trying to put you in a position to feel like you can do something that you probably can't, that you're gonna fail at, because he knows it'll drive you back to him to get more stuff. That's bad enough, okay, but don't do it to yourself. Yeah, you know, that's just, that's where it starts feeling sad to me, you know, like, I get if somebody else can fool you, but like, know enough about how your mind works and how people's minds works to at least not do it to yourself. That's kind of what I'm hope that. I guess in the end, that's what I'm hoping this is going to do for people. So, yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:58
and it is. So as I've shared, I tried doing this push up thing, because in my mind, I, you know, I want to get stronger, getting older. I need I used to be very active, and I'm like, I'm never going to be able to get to the gym. I'm, you know, this all or nothing, thinking. I'm like, But you know what, I'm going to try this five push ups a day. And it feels silly, but gosh, do I feel accomplished for getting on the ground, doing five push ups. And I've done it, you know? He also says, you know, if you miss a day, fine, but try not to miss two days in a row. Can I find time to do five push ups? Yes. So you get this little mini dopamine hit of like I did it. You have the physical release, the endorphin hit, even though it's small, yeah. And then you're building that habit,
Scott Benner 37:39
and that's coming from you a person who, if I know you don't tell a lot of your personal stuff, but I think this is out there at the very least. But this is coming from you a person who's like, I need to get a little stronger, and who, at one point in your life was a d1 athlete. Yeah, it's not like Eric is like, just been tripping through life, going, I got to do a sit up. Like, at some point she was taking a ball and jamming it down other girls throats and jumping and in a very active I imagine, like, I don't know you from back then, but I imagine you were incredibly strong at that
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:09
point. I was, yeah, and even after that, for a period of time, until, you know life happened exactly.
Scott Benner 38:16
But I'm just my point is that it's not like even you are saying that, I guess is my point, and you've been not in this situation before. So, yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:24
yeah, all right, yeah. So just the starting small is so powerful, and then yeah, slow and steady, being patient, so that that simple is really, really important. I think of a lot of these, of these Four Laws, and the last one making it satisfying. I think when you when you start a new habit, it is important to have that. I think we talked a little bit about this before that external reward or motivation. So let's say, Okay, for this first week, if I do the thing I want to do, maybe it's just pre bowls for one meal for five days in a row, I'm going to whatever feels appropriate. I don't know. Obviously you might not want to make it food based, but you might want to make it like I'm going to buy some new bubble bath for or I'm going to buy a new book, or I'm going to get a little reward, just whatever, whatever feels appropriate, right? Eventually, the hope is that doing the actual habit or the behavior intrinsically becomes the becomes the reward, right? So initially, at first, you're like, I don't, don't really have a whole lot of buy in, but I'm gonna do these five push ups every day, and hopefully I'll start to feel stronger. But then it becomes like, Oh, I'm doing my five push ups today. That is the reward, yeah. Or I am again. I'm trying to think of with the diabetes example, that's not Pre Bolus, because I've used that now.
Scott Benner 39:49
It's a carrot and a stick. Like you just you need to say to yourself, like, if I do this over and over again, and I know it's, I know there's valuable reasons for me to be doing it, and yes, it's probably why I should be doing. It. But for now, I need another reason, so at the end of this, I'm going to buy myself a puzzle, because I love puzzles. Yeah, whatever. Listen, I think if you want to talk about diabetes, specifically, like pre bolusing is obvious, because it's so valuable, and either people aren't told about it and they build bad habits around it, or it's difficult to do. And I've heard everybody's listen, I understand every, I think every opinion out there about why it can be difficult, maybe it's more than that. Maybe it's just more about like, hey, getting my basal set correctly, or make sure my insult to carb ratio is right, or, you know, like putting the effort into that this week, like, I'll just spend this week figuring out my basal and once that's good, you know, I'll look back and I'll see like, Is my carb ratio Good? I'll spend a week trying to figure out if my carb ratio is good. Then I get those things straight. I think about like, let's just check into the insulin sensitivity. Now. I've got all my settings right now, by the way, pre bossing might become significantly easier, and now it might work. And you'll think, Oh, I did this thing and it worked instead of like before, because your basal was wrong, your carb ratio was wrong, your insulin sensitivity is wrong. You were pre bossing. It wasn't working anyway, and you were defeated before. Anyway. You were defeated before you started, because you didn't take the steps in the beginning like you thought you knew what the process was. I just have to Pre Bolus. But the process really was my settings aren't right, and instead of just saying my settings aren't right, I need to fix them. It's why I talk about this way, basal first, then carb ratio, then insulin sensitivity, get those things straight. Then work on pre bolusing your meals. From there. The truth is, if you're consistent with that between you and me, Erica, voila, you pretty much got your six eight. Wouldn't say it's pretty much there, right, as long as you understand the impacts your food. But then that's the next thing. You go, Okay, let me figure out how fat and protein impacts my life. Let me figure out, like, why 10 carbs of this seems to make me, you know, higher than 10 carbs of that. And who cares if that takes six months or a year? Yeah? Yeah. Like, who cares if it takes two years? You're running around right now with a 12, a 1c and going, like, oh, I only brought my a 1c down a half a point. That's huge. Yeah. What a big deal that would be, you know, and then take the win and build on it, buy yourself a puzzle and keep going. I don't know, whatever you do, whatever weird things you people like doing, I don't care. Just don't hurt anybody. And I'm fine, yeah,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:13
whatever, yeah. Well, and I think, you know what, the basal check I'm like, how I was trying to think of, how can we, you know, two minutes a day is that spending two minutes looking at your report like, what? How could we apply that to, like, a very simple step each day? Yeah, I'm
Scott Benner 42:30
gonna tell you it's self serving, but go listen to the Pro Tip series. Just start at the beginning. Pick an episode. Listen to that one. Get that together. Move to the next one. If that takes you 26 weeks who cares, right? Like, seriously. Like, who cares? You'll be better off 26 weeks later. I'm not gonna lie to you. There are some people I've seen power through it, and a week later, they're like, my one sees five and a half. I'm like, Man, you really understood that? Like, but that's not everybody. No, you know what I mean. Like, so take your time. Listen, listen for two minutes. Listen, listen to one episode a week, like Erica, we're done, right? We got through. Make it satisfying, right? Like, because, yes, yes, yeah. Then the last episode we'll do how to break bad habits. What gets in the way? It gets in the way? Yeah, okay, but let me finish with this. It's gonna sound weird. I don't care how it sounds. I put the answers there. They're there. I can't come to your house and be like, now do that like you've got to do that part like I so maybe that's your first process. Is just talking yourself into doing something kind for yourself, and not by the Stairmaster, and not do it. Oh, I downloaded the series, but I can't listen yet or get in your own way. You know what people say to me all the time? I don't have time to listen. It's 26 hours of listening, like to go through the Pro Tip series that sounds crazy, right? Is it? Because in the last month you've been alive for, like, you know, a lot longer than that, and your situation is terrible. So take an hour this week or an hour this month. Who even cares? Like, who would care if 24 months later, you were better off. It's not going to take that long. But like, stop having the expectation, like Erica said, like, stop having the expectation that you're going to flick your finger and your dopamine is going to light up and you're going to feel all fulfilled, and that's going to be the end of it. You got to put the work in somewhere, because you're like, how do we explain to people what that is? Like, I don't know. Like, maybe this is the rubber meets the road spot. How am I supposed to explain to them how to do it? Like, at some point, you know, you do just have to do it. So, I don't know.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:30
And maybe it's a PLA, you know, all of if we were to say, Okay, if you're wanting to adjust and or lower your A, 1c and if we walked through these Four Laws of behavior change. Make it obvious. Maybe you are going you have it downloaded, and you're gonna brush your teeth every morning and you're gonna listen to two minutes of it. That's you. Now. You're kind of your habit stacking. You're making it kind of attractive and easy, right? So every time I brush my teeth in the morning at nine. I'm gonna listen to, you're supposed to brush your teeth for two minutes. I think so, two minutes in the morning, two minutes at night, maybe at the end of the week, already send out. Okay, if I listen to the Pro Tip series and basal testing for one whole week, then I'm going to, you know, get the puzzle, whatever it is, um, go see the movie, sit down and do nothing, whatever feels like a reward. The actual
Scott Benner 45:22
reward is going to end up being when your blood sugar doesn't spike and you feel you don't feel foggy, and you don't get low later, and all these things that I know you,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:31
that's the internal reward eventually, yeah, and I know those
Scott Benner 45:35
things like that. I know that's what you I don't I listen. I wish I could do it. I mean, if I could come to every one of your houses and do it for you. I guess I've been it would take a while, but like, you know, like, or just having someone else do it even like, I get it now, if you're really jammed up and it's just not making any sense to you, then okay, then you need outside help. But I shudder for a minute to sound like I'm just here shilling for my own podcast. But let me just say this so that I can be 100% clear I'm doing okay. I'd love it if more people listened, but the truth is, if no more people listen, I'm doing this podcast incredibly popular, and I'm fine. I'm not doing it because I want you to listen to the podcast more. Yeah, I'm mentioning to listen to the podcast more because of the decades worth of feedback that I have from people who did it who tell me, Hey, this really worked for me, you know, like I'm where I mean to be because I listened to a podcast. I don't know if you can believe it or not, that sounds strange to me. I don't know why it works, but it seems to so, you know, what's that? Nike, I'd say, Just do it. Like, right to play. Just do it. I mean, listen, Eric. I can't sit here all day and read reviews of the podcast because, also, people wouldn't believe that, but I'm just trying to get you to like whatever your pathway is to this. I hope you try it, because I think it's really, genuinely going to help anyway. All right, we'll cut it here and we'll we'll finish up the rest in the next episode. Sounds good. Thank you. You I'd like to thank the Eversense 365 for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every 14 days, you want the ever since CGM, ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM. The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by tandem diabetes care. Learn more about tandems, newest automated insulin delivery system, tandem Moby with control iq plus technology at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox there are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox podcast.com this episode was sponsored by touched by type one. I want you to go find them on Facebook, Instagram, and give them a follow, and then head to touched by type one.org where you're going to learn all about their programs and resources for people with type one diabetes. Thank you for listening to episode three of this four part series. There's one more coming. And if you heard this one and didn't hear the last two, go back and find them. And of course, check out erica@ericaforsyfe.com my grand rounds series was designed by listeners to tell doctors what they need, and it also helps you to understand what to ask for. There's a mental wellness series that addresses the emotional side of diabetes and practical ways to stay balanced. And when we talk about GLP medications, well we'll break down what they are, how they may help you, and if they fit into your diabetes management plan. What do these three things have in common? They're all available at Juicebox podcast.com, up in the menu. I know it can be hard to find these things in a podcast app, so we've collected them all for you at Juicebox podcast.com, the episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongwaverecording.com.
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