#1857 Jersey Represent
Adult-diagnosed LADA veteran and breast cancer survivor Naomi shares how cancer reframed her relationship with diabetes numbers, her strategies for running, and a realistic take on cure timelines.
Key Takeaways
- Adult-Onset Misdiagnosis: Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults (LADA) is frequently misdiagnosed as Type 2 diabetes initially, demonstrating the critical importance of autoantibody testing (like GAD) for older adults presenting with elevated glucose[cite: 3296, 3297, 3301].
- Empowered Self-Advocacy: Naomi stresses that patients must heavily research and actively advocate for their treatment plans, including pushing providers for insulin therapies when remaining at baseline elevations of 140–150 mg/dL[cite: 3289, 3290, 3292].
- T1D and Running Dynamics: Managing long-distance running requires adjusting for competitive environmental triggers like "foot-to-floor" syndrome, carrying fast-acting glucose infrastructure, and tracking shifting patterns where adrenaline spikes give way to late-run crashes[cite: 3496, 3502, 3510].
- A Shifting Horizon on Perfectionism: Facing a serious alternative health challenge, such as stage 1 breast cancer, can fundamentally reset care priorities, easing obsessive anxiety over singular blood sugar fluctuations[cite: 3393, 3397, 3474].
- Transplant Realities: While experimental clinical islet cell and stem cell protocols show monumental promise, structural delivery challenges, insurance roadblocks, and the need for regular anti-rejection infusions create a prolonged timeline to general availability[cite: 3937, 3954, 4007, 4010].
Resources Mentioned
- Omnipod 5 Automated Insulin Delivery System [cite: 3275, 3489]
- US Med Supplying Delivery Fulfillment [cite: 3278, 3447]
- Breakthrough T1D (Formerly JDRF) [cite: 3517, 3888]
- Juicebox Podcast (Small Sips & Bold Beginnings Series) [cite: 3264, 4104]
- Think Like a Pancreas by Gary Scheiner [cite: 3327]
- Healthy Kick Ass Lada (Community Reference Manual) [cite: 3327]
Introduction and LADA Misdiagnosis
Scott Benner Friends, we're all back together for the next episode of the Juice Box podcast[cite: 3262]. Welcome[cite: 3262].
Naomi Hi[cite: 3262]. My name is Naomi[cite: 3263]. I am from New Jersey, and I am a type one diabetic diagnosed in 2016 as an adult[cite: 3263]. One of those lotta people[cite: 3264].
Scott Benner If you'd like to hear about diabetes management in easy to take in bits, check out the small sips[cite: 3264]. That's the series on the Juice Box podcast that listeners are talking about like it's a cheat code[cite: 3265]. These are perfect little bursts of clarity, one person said[cite: 3266]. I finally understood things I've heard a 100 times[cite: 3267]. Short, simple, and somehow exactly what I needed[cite: 3267].
Scott Benner People say small sips feels like someone pulling up a chair, sliding a cup across the table, and giving you one clean idea at a time[cite: 3268]. Nothing overwhelming, no fire hose of information, just steady helpful nudges that actually stick[cite: 3269]. People listen in their car, on walks, or rather actually bolus ing anytime that they need a quick shot of perspective[cite: 3270]. And the reviews, they all say the same thing[cite: 3271]. Small sips makes diabetes make sense[cite: 3271]. Search for the Juice Box podcast, small sips, wherever you get audio[cite: 3272].
Scott Benner Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise[cite: 3273]. Always consult physician before making any changes to your health care plan[cite: 3274]. A huge thanks to my longest sponsor, Omnipod[cite: 3275]. Check out the Omnipod five now with my link, omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 3275]. You may be eligible for a free starter kit, a free Omnipod five starter kit at my link[cite: 3276]. Go check it out[cite: 3277]. Omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 3277]. Terms and conditions apply[cite: 3277]. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 3278]. Today's episode is also sponsored by US Med[cite: 3278]. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514[cite: 3279]. US Med is where my daughter gets her diabetes supplies from, and you could too[cite: 3279]. Use the link or number to get your free benefit check and get started today with US Med[cite: 3280].
Naomi Hi[cite: 3281]. My name is Naomi[cite: 3281]. I am from New Jersey, and I am a type one diabetic diagnosed in 2016 as an adult[cite: 3281]. One of those lotta people that you hear about[cite: 3282].
Scott Benner That you hear about[cite: 3282]. We hear we hear from a lotta people with lotta[cite: 3283]. You're almost up to a decade, or you hit it already[cite: 3284]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3284]. So I'm almost coming up to a decade this summer[cite: 3285]. Wow[cite: 3285]. I didn't need insulin originally when I was first diagnosed[cite: 3286]. My my sugars were, you know, pretty pretty well controlled with low carb and exercise[cite: 3287]. And, gradually, you know, as the years went on by year five, I was realizing that my my glucose numbers were creeping up, you know, even despite a low carb, high exercise diet and and a diet of exercise as well[cite: 3288]. But at that point, I really had to push my endocrinologist for insulin[cite: 3289]. I felt as though, you know, all of the research that I had done and everything that I had read, you know, told me that being at one forty, one fifty all the time, like, wasn't really normal[cite: 3290]. I know it's, you know, within range for many people, but I knew at that point, you know, well, maybe somebody should be offering me insulin at this point, but it wasn't happening[cite: 3291]. So I I just pushed for it and advocated for it[cite: 3292]. And every time I went said, you know, I think it's time[cite: 3293]. I think it's time[cite: 3293]. I wanna try it[cite: 3294]. I think I'll be okay with it[cite: 3294]. And that that got me down to, you know, more reasonable range with fasting numbers and things like that[cite: 3295].
Scott Benner So question[cite: 3295]. When you were diagnosed originally, they told you you were type two[cite: 3296]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3296]. Originally, I was diagnosed at first by my regular GP[cite: 3297]. He noticed that my sugar was high, one time when I went just for an average visit[cite: 3298]. I had no symptoms, felt nothing, wasn't drinking excessively, wasn't going to the bathroom a lot like you hear with a lot of other people[cite: 3299]. I'm gonna send out your blood for this antibody auto antibody test to just see if you have the antibodies for type one diabetes[cite: 3300]. I was positive for just the GAD one, but he wasn't sure[cite: 3301]. He said it was, like, borderline and potentially I could have been type two[cite: 3302]. He referred me to an endocrinologist[cite: 3303]. And I'm still with that endocrinologist today, and I really do like her a lot[cite: 3303]. But she was kind of of the school, it doesn't really matter if you're type one or type two, we're just gonna watch your numbers[cite: 3304]. And I thought that was a little you know, odd[cite: 3305]. I thought, you know, well, no[cite: 3305]. Shouldn't we know because I may eventually need insulin if I am a type one[cite: 3306]?
Scott Benner Also, what the heck[cite: 3306]? Right[cite: 3307]? Why don't we know for sure[cite: 3307]?
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3307]. I just like to know[cite: 3308]. I mean, I'm the type[cite: 3308]. I like to know everything about everything[cite: 3308]. I research everything[cite: 3308]. I read everything[cite: 3309]. So...
Managing Hypothyroidism and Breast Cancer
Scott Benner Oh, Amy, I don't think you need to be the type to wanna know that[cite: 3309]. That one's that one's pretty easy[cite: 3310]. So you I heard you stumble when you said I'm still with her[cite: 3310]. Is that the, like do you feel like I'm about to judge you for not finding a doctor who didn't misdiagnose you for five years[cite: 3311]?
Naomi I'm not I'm not so much worried about you judging me[cite: 3312]. I'm I'm worried about my own judgment of myself sometimes that I that I stick with her[cite: 3313]. I really do like her, and she's been helpful, you know, throughout the years[cite: 3314]. And, you know, I just realized that the relationship is more of, me doing the research and me advocating for myself rather than[cite: 3315]...
Scott Benner And her having access to a prescription pad[cite: 3315]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3316]. And sometimes I feel yeah[cite: 3316]. Like, not that I know more than the endocrinologist, but I know a lot at this point[cite: 3316]. You know, obviously, as a type one diabetic, you educate yourself, and you're your own best advocate[cite: 3317]. So...
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3317].
Naomi I always go in there prepared with, well, what about this[cite: 3318]? And let's try this[cite: 3319]. And what about this research[cite: 3319]? And you know[cite: 3319]?
Scott Benner Well, how old were you at the original diagnosis with the GP[cite: 3320]?
Naomi I was 47[cite: 3321].
Scott Benner So 47 years old[cite: 3321]. You went to the doctor just because you were going[cite: 3321]?
Naomi It was my regular yearly physical[cite: 3322].
Scott Benner Okay[cite: 3322]. You showed up that day being like, I'm 47[cite: 3323]. I'm doing great[cite: 3323]. I have no complaints[cite: 3323]. And you left that office an hour later going, I have diabetes[cite: 3324]?
Naomi No[cite: 3325]. It was not an hour later[cite: 3325]. He said my sugar was high and, you know, we'll send we'll do this other blood work and we'll send it out[cite: 3325]. So it wasn't until, a couple weeks later that he called and I was I remember, you know, I remember the call exactly[cite: 3326]. I was in a hotel room at, like, my son's college orientation[cite: 3327]. And he he said, you know, I think that you have diabetes because you've borderline for this antibody[cite: 3328].
Scott Benner Your sugar's been elevated to [cite: 3328]
Naomi a one c[cite: 3329]. So it was kind of a shock because, you know, I was, you know, very good health[cite: 3330]. And...
Scott Benner Fair to say you left that appointment[cite: 3331]. He said we're gonna send some blood out[cite: 3331]. You didn't think about it again[cite: 3332]. You didn't think someone's [cite: 3332]
Naomi gonna in a million years would I have suspected I had diabetes[cite: 3332]. Now I had just come off of this you know, subsequently to the diagnosis, I had read that it could be triggered by a virus or an infection of some sort[cite: 3333]. So I had just come off a very, very bad infection for which I was hospitalized[cite: 3334]. So in my my endocrinologist didn't think necessarily there was that correlation, but in the back of my mind, I thought, oh, maybe that's what did trigger it[cite: 3335].
Scott Benner So you've obviously done a lot of picking around since then[cite: 3336]. And so hindsight, is there other autoimmune stuff in your extended family[cite: 3336]?
Naomi Not in my extended family at all[cite: 3337]. No[cite: 3338]. I I have thyroid issue[cite: 3338]. You know, I'm on I have is it hypothyroidism[cite: 3338]?
Scott Benner Hypo[cite: 3339]. Yeah[cite: 3339].
Naomi Yes[cite: 3339]. So I'm hypothyroidism[cite: 3339]. My dad was a type two diabetic, but that was really, I believe, diet related, and he was overweight and all of that[cite: 3340]. But no one in my family that I know of was a type one diabetic or had any autoimmune issues[cite: 3341]. So it's it was such a shock[cite: 3342]. You know[cite: 3342]?
Scott Benner No[cite: 3342]. No[cite: 3342]. No[cite: 3342]. I hear you[cite: 3342]. How long had you had the the hypothyroidism diagnosis[cite: 3343]?
Naomi That I've had for about twenty years[cite: 3343].
Scott Benner You're gonna say that's longer[cite: 3344]. Right[cite: 3344]?
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3344].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3344]. Yeah[cite: 3344]. Yeah[cite: 3344]. And nobody else in your family has that[cite: 3345]? No[cite: 3345]. Just lucky[cite: 3345].
Naomi To my knowledge, unless, you know, with my grandparents, you don't know[cite: 3346]. They're not here anymore[cite: 3346]. You know, I can't ask them[cite: 3347]. But Yeah[cite: 3347]. But it wasn't something that I was aware of or that my parents talked about my grandparents having[cite: 3348].
Anxiety and Perfectionism
Scott Benner Gotcha[cite: 3349]. Okay[cite: 3349]. Have you all you described yourself in your note as a perfectionist[cite: 3349]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3349].
Scott Benner Has that always been the case[cite: 3350]?
Naomi You know, I've always been a little bit of sort of an overachiever and, you know, wanting everything to be perfect and in place and organized and me being on top of everything[cite: 3350]. And, that is a tough sell with diabetes because it's hard to be a perfectionist with diabetes because you can't be perfect[cite: 3351]. Yeah[cite: 3352]. So that that's tough[cite: 3352]. So in the in the beginning and and even to this day, I say, you know, I'm not as obsessive about my numbers, but I kind of really still am a little bit, and I check my my phone much more often than I think is probably healthy[cite: 3352].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3353]. I'm trying to get my mindset more to the place of, you know, yes[cite: 3353]. I wanna have good numbers and be in range all the time, but at the same time, I also don't want to take years off my life by stressing about the numbers and worrying about the diabetes and checking my numbers so frequently[cite: 3354].
Scott Benner That kind of personality trait[cite: 3355]. Entire life as a child and a teen in high school too[cite: 3355]? Or more as in your twenties[cite: 3356]?
Naomi At that time, I I felt that there was less to obsess about or control[cite: 3356]. Like, I didn't have control issues when I was growing up or anything like that or wanting to be in control all the time[cite: 3357]. But with the diabetes, I feel as though it almost got worse because you had this number and you have the technology where you can look at it all the time and you can manage it all the time and you can micromanage it, you know, with microdosing[cite: 3358]. And, you know, so I'm sort of in that place where I I am very on top of it[cite: 3359].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3360]. Let be a little less obtuse[cite: 3360]. Okay[cite: 3360]?
Naomi K[cite: 3361].
Scott Benner Do you have anxiety, and did it start when your thyroid diagnosis came[cite: 3361]?
Naomi No[cite: 3362]. I I will say right now, no[cite: 3362]. I do not have anxiety[cite: 3362]. I have struggled with anxiety in the past, and I've been in therapy for that and everything, but not in a not in a very long time[cite: 3363]. But I think it has crept back up with the diabetes[cite: 3364].
Naomi I don't think of myself as an anxious person[cite: 3365]. I think of it as more of, you know, I wanna be in in control of my diabetes[cite: 3366]. I wanna control it rather than have it control me[cite: 3367].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3367]. Yeah[cite: 3367]. Yeah[cite: 3367]. I also wanna tell people who are listening around the country and around the world that you talk faster[cite: 3368]. You probably seem anxious to them, but you're just from Jersey[cite: 3369].
Scott Benner So...
Naomi I'm from I'm from New York originally[cite: 3370].
Scott Benner I I just...
Naomi talk very fast, so I will try to slow that down[cite: 3371].
Scott Benner No[cite: 3372]. No[cite: 3372]. You're doing fine[cite: 3372]. I'm I'm slowing myself down so the two of us aren't doing it together[cite: 3372]. Okay[cite: 3373]. Because I you and I are probably very close to each other, physically[cite: 3373]. Mhmm[cite: 3373]. Yeah[cite: 3374]. Yeah[cite: 3374]. So, if I get going, you and I'll just be going at a speed that no one else will be able to listen to[cite: 3374].
Scott Benner So...
Naomi Yes[cite: 3375]. And and I especially find I talk faster when I am very interested in the topic, and I'm very invested in the topic[cite: 3375]. I tend to get a little more excited about it[cite: 3376].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3376]. Sure[cite: 3376]. Hey[cite: 3376]. Listen[cite: 3376]. It took me it took me the better part of, like, six years making this podcast to learn how to slow myself down[cite: 3377].
Scott Benner So...
Naomi Wow[cite: 3378].
Scott Benner So what I was gonna say is that, like, anxiety can be a side effect of, like, a mistreated thyroid[cite: 3378]. And so my last question about your thyroid is is do you know where your TSH level sits[cite: 3379]?
Naomi I have it in my blood work[cite: 3380]. I don't know it off the top of my head, but I'm doing fine according to my endocrinologist[cite: 3380]. I am on medication for it, but I'm not it's not anything where she's had to adjust my medication because I'm too high or too low[cite: 3381]. I'm I'm within the normal range[cite: 3382]. I do know that[cite: 3382].
Scott Benner I bring this up because the normal range is pretty wide and a really a well thought out endo around thyroid will will manage your TSH under a 2.1[cite: 3383]. So do you have any other hypothyroid symptoms[cite: 3384]? Are you tired a lot, can't get rested, hair falls out, brittle nails[cite: 3384]? I'm trying to think anything like that, fatigue[cite: 3385].
Naomi You know, I I have some of that, but that's due to my my breast cancer diagnosis[cite: 3385].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3386]. Well, listen[cite: 3386]. I I'm not a doctor[cite: 3386]. What I'm gonna tell you is if you dig around in that blood work at some point and realize that your TSH is, like, three and a half and she's telling you it's good, then then[cite: 3387]...
Naomi No[cite: 3387]. I just found it[cite: 3387]. I pulled it up in my you know, in the Apple Health app, you can, if you connect it to all of your health apps in your MyCharts, you can just punch in TSH in the search bar, and it it just came up[cite: 3388]. So I am 1.3[cite: 3389].
Scott Benner Oh, that's beautiful[cite: 3389]. Okay[cite: 3389]. Good[cite: 3389]. You are a perfectionist[cite: 3389]. You have your health app attached to your look at you[cite: 3390]. You're proving you're proving yourself right the whole way[cite: 3391].
Naomi I didn't do that myself[cite: 3391]. My son had to set that up for me[cite: 3392]. So...
Cancer Realities and Shifting Perceptions
Scott Benner Tell me about the cancer[cite: 3392].
Naomi Okay[cite: 3393]. So I was diagnosed with the breast cancer last summer[cite: 3393]. Also, you know, another shock because I think of myself as such a healthy person, but, you know, it can happen[cite: 3394]. It happens to one in eight women[cite: 3395]. So, again, regular mammogram[cite: 3395]. I didn't feel anything[cite: 3395]. It wasn't the mammogram that picked it up[cite: 3396]. It was the ultrasound that picked it up[cite: 3396]. They did a biopsy[cite: 3397]. I luckily, I was stage one[cite: 3397]. It had not spread to my lymph nodes, so so I am very lucky[cite: 3398].
Naomi However, anyone with breast cancer knows you they send your tumor out when they do the surgery[cite: 3399]. They send it out to some lab in California, they do something called an Oncotype DX score[cite: 3400]. And that is, a score that tells you whether or not you will benefit from chemotherapy[cite: 3401]. My score came back very high, so they did recommend chemotherapy[cite: 3402]. So I did go through the whole treatment process of chemotherapy and radiation, and, I finished radiation in February[cite: 3403].
Scott Benner Congratulations[cite: 3404].
Naomi Thank you[cite: 3404]. Thank you[cite: 3404]. So and now I'm just on the, aromatase inhibitor, which is supposed to tamp down your estrogen[cite: 3404]. I had the type of breast cancer ER positive[cite: 3405]. My cancer grew in estrogen, so they tried to block that as much as possible going forward[cite: 3406]. And and I think that does cause some you know, that causes some fatigue and all that[cite: 3407]. Also, just basically what my body has been through, you know, over the last, you know, eight months or so[cite: 3408].
Scott Benner Two things[cite: 3419]. First of all, my anxiety grows and estrogen comes from my wish and my daughter[cite: 3409].
Naomi That'll do it[cite: 3410].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3411]. Yeah[cite: 3411]. Yeah[cite: 3411]. And the the second thing is you said something offhandedly a second ago that I wanna double back to[cite: 3411]. You know, I think of myself as a healthy person[cite: 3412]. And I think I'd like to point out to people that just because your your thyroid went kablooey and so did your pancreas, and and you had breast cancer, I don't know that that doesn't mean you're not a healthy person[cite: 3413, 3414]. Like, I wonder what everyone's expectation is about the process of life to death and what's supposed to, like, quotes, finger quotes, supposed to happen to you through that entire process[cite: 3415]. I think about that because I'm 54[cite: 3416]. So what am I? I'm a little older than you[cite: 3416]. Right[cite: 3417]?
Naomi You're a little younger[cite: 3417]. I'm 57[cite: 3417].
Scott Benner Oh, I'm sorry[cite: 3417]. Did the math wrong[cite: 3417]. Thank you[cite: 3418]. Finally, I'm younger[cite: 3418].
Naomi You're a baby[cite: 3418].
Scott Benner So there you are[cite: 3419]. You're 57[cite: 3419]. I'm 54[cite: 3419]. My son said to me, I don't know, a year ago, like, how many things have been wrong with you[cite: 3419]? He told me[cite: 3420]. Like, as I as I as I so, like, for instance, and I had to have my right knee cleaned out[cite: 3420]. Oddly, my the big toe on my right foot stopped bending, and, like, the guy had to go in there and, like, I don't know what he found, that he cleaned it up a little bit, did some microneedling and all this stuff[cite: 3421]. And it's been, like, a couple of years now, And I would tell you that it's odd that I'm having this conversation now because I'm not actually wearing shoes right now[cite: 3422]. But I couldn't I couldn't you know, can you make a fist with your toes[cite: 3423]? Right[cite: 3423]?
Scott Benner I couldn't do that with my right toe for, the first eighteen, twenty four months after the surgery, but I can now[cite: 3424]. Like, it was Interesting[cite: 3424]. Good idea to go get the surgery[cite: 3425]. It ended up being a great thing[cite: 3426]. Blah blah blah[cite: 3426]. Right[cite: 3427]? I've, had a carpal tunnel surgery because I injured my hand[cite: 3427]. I've you know, I use a GLP medication[cite: 3428]. I had to have, like, something, like, you know, throughout my life[cite: 3428]...
Naomi Like normal normal aging thing[cite: 3428].
Scott Benner I yeah[cite: 3429]. I had a I had a my shoulders are like, I had a motorcycle accident when I was a kid[cite: 3429]. I never got it fixed[cite: 3430]. I had to have, like, rotator cuff surgery, like, stuff like that[cite: 3430]. And my son looks at that and goes, holy hell, man[cite: 3430]. He's breaking all over the place[cite: 3431]. You know[cite: 3432]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3432].
Scott Benner Yes[cite: 3432]. What I see is I see that, like, you're an expectation of getting to your grave without something like this going wrong in your meat sack that is rotting in front of you every day long[cite: 3432]. I just look at it as trying to stay ahead of father time[cite: 3433]. And Yes[cite: 3433]. Because if somebody said to me, are you healthy[cite: 3434]? I would say yes[cite: 3434].
Scott Benner You've probably heard me talk about US Med and how simple it is to reorder with US Med using their email system[cite: 3435]. But did you know that if you don't see the email and you're set up for this, you have to set it up[cite: 3436]. They don't just randomly call you[cite: 3437]. But I'm set up to be called if I don't respond to the email because I don't trust myself, a 100%[cite: 3437]. So one time, I didn't respond to the email and the phone rings at the house[cite: 3438]. It's like, ring, you know how it works[cite: 3439]. And I picked it up[cite: 3439]. I was like, hello[cite: 3439]? It was just the recording[cite: 3439]. It was like, US Med, doesn't actually sound like that, but you know what I'm saying[cite: 3440, 3441]. It said, hey, you're, I don't remember exactly what it says, but it's basically like, hey, your order's ready[cite: 3441]. You want us to send it[cite: 3442]? Push this button if you want us to send it[cite: 3442]. Or if you'd like to wait, I think it it lets you put it off, a couple of weeks or push this button for that[cite: 3443].
Scott Benner That's pretty much it[cite: 3444]. I push the button to send it, and a few days later, box right at my door[cite: 3444]. That's it[cite: 3445]. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514[cite: 3445]. Get your free benefits checked now and get started with USmed[cite: 3445]. Dexcom, Omnipod, Tandem, Freestyle, they've got all your favorites[cite: 3446]. Even that new islet pump[cite: 3446]. Check them out now at usmed.com/juicebox or by calling (888) 721-1514[cite: 3447, 3448]. This episode is brought to you by Omnipod[cite: 3449].
Scott Benner Would you ever buy a car without test driving at first[cite: 3449]? That's a big risk to take on a pretty large investment[cite: 3450]. You wouldn't do that[cite: 3450]. Right[cite: 3450]? So why would you do it when it comes to choosing an insulin pump[cite: 3451]? Most pumps come with a four year lock in period through the DME channel, and you don't even get to try it first[cite: 3452]. But not Omnipod five[cite: 3453]. Omnipod five is available exclusively through the pharmacy, which means it doesn't come with a typical four year DME lock in period[cite: 3453]. Plus, you can get started with a free thirty day trial to be sure it's the right choice for you or your family[cite: 3454]. My daughter has been wearing an Omnipod every day for seventeen years[cite: 3455]. Are you ready to give Omnipod five a try[cite: 3456]? Request your free starter kit today at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 3457]. Terms and conditions apply[cite: 3457]. Eligibility may vary[cite: 3457]. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 3458]. Find my link in the show notes of this podcast player or at juiceboxpodcast.com[cite: 3459].
Naomi You know, I'm glad you said that that because that's the perspective I'm trying to get to because I still do feel extremely healthy[cite: 3460]. I mean, I am I work out all the time[cite: 3461]. I'm a long distance runner and I'm still running, you know, and I ran through treatment[cite: 3462]. And I I part of me, 50% of me feels that I'm very healthy[cite: 3463]. I eat well, obviously, because I watch what I eat because of the diabetes[cite: 3464].
Naomi So I have that, but then I also have the fifty percent of me that's like, oh my gosh, got the thyroid issue[cite: 3465]. I have osteopenia, which many women my age get[cite: 3466]. I have breast cancer, I have diabetes, and I'm falling apart, I'm breaking down[cite: 3467]. So I go back and forth[cite: 3468]. I'm still feeling very healthy, but I do worry about the things that are happening to my body[cite: 3468]. But many people live very long fruitful lives, obviously, with type one diabetes and having survived breast cancer[cite: 3469]. So...
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3470]. Yeah[cite: 3470]. Well, I'm glad you're looking[cite: 3470]. I I understand your trepidation around, like, making the proclamation, but at the same time, I like that you're searching for it[cite: 3471]. I also did not mean to rhyme trepidation and proclamation[cite: 3472]. I very much apologize[cite: 3472]. I apologize to everybody for that[cite: 3473].
Naomi For a Monday morning[cite: 3473]. But I also wanted to mention that with with the diagnosis of the breast cancer, it really helped me to sort of be a little less obsessive with the diabetes numbers because I realized that as much effort as I put into managing my diabetes, here came this thing along that was so much bigger and that really was life threatening and that could could kill me[cite: 3474]. And so it really made sometimes when I hear people talk about diabetes, it's the worst possible thing that ever happened to them[cite: 3475]. Now I have this perspective of like, God, if I only just had diabetes, that would be awesome[cite: 3476]. So it is interesting how things happen in life and changes your perspective because you can you really can[cite: 3477]. If you are in control or have some, you know, good range of control with your glucose numbers, you can live well into your eighties and nineties[cite: 3478].
Insulin Administration and Running
Scott Benner You know[cite: 3479]? Yeah[cite: 3479]. There should be no issue with that[cite: 3479]. Well, okay[cite: 3479]. So you got to the point where you talked to that doctor into believing you needed insulin[cite: 3480]. And are you, like where are you in the, like, the LADA chain of command[cite: 3481]? Are you, like, in full need of insulin[cite: 3481]? Are you taking just [cite: 3482]
Naomi Oh, yeah[cite: 3482].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3483]. Yeah[cite: 3483].
Naomi No[cite: 3483]. I'm I'm in full need now[cite: 3483]. In the beginning, I started with pens[cite: 3483]. You know, the first couple years, I used pens[cite: 3484]. And then I as I educated myself more, I realized, well, there's more I can be doing[cite: 3485]. You know, why don't why can't I give myself point five unit of insulin as opposed to a full unit[cite: 3486]? And then I started, you know, researching pumps and exploring the pumps[cite: 3487]. And and I knew, just given my lifestyle and activity level, I I knew that I didn't want one with a tube, although they're very successful for so many people[cite: 3488]. But I did go with the Omnipod[cite: 3489]. And, you know, I don't I don't take as much insulin as some other people because I do tend to eat a low carb diet[cite: 3489]. But there are times where, you know, I'm out to eat or wherever if I want dessert, you know, and I definitely you know[cite: 3490]? Yeah[cite: 3491]. But I typically don't have more than thirty units a day[cite: 3491].
Scott Benner Okay[cite: 3491]. Yeah[cite: 3491].
Naomi I mean Sometimes it's as low as, you know, ten units if I'm eating, you know, very low carb that day[cite: 3492].
Scott Benner How does the running affect your insulin needs[cite: 3493]?
Naomi The running is tricky because, you know, again, with diabetes, it's it's all about sort of decision, the management around, you know, okay[cite: 3494]. Well, when am I gonna do my run[cite: 3495]? Like, I typically wanna do it in the morning before I've eaten[cite: 3495]. But sometimes when I wake up in the morning, I have foot to floor syndrome or dawn phenomenon or whatever you call it that that makes me go up[cite: 3496]. So I tend to take it I might take a unit or two, when I wake up to just keep myself, you know, under one forty[cite: 3497]. But then sometimes, you know, when I go out for the run, I tend to drop lower when I run[cite: 3498]. So I wanna be you know, I'm always looking again at the number to make sure, okay[cite: 3499]. Well, I'd love to be around one twenty, one thirty when I start to go out for a run, but, you know, sometimes I'm not[cite: 3500]. Sometimes I'm sitting at 90, and then I drink some juice or I eat something[cite: 3501]. I always make sure that I have to have, I have a belt with me, that I always have snacks[cite: 3502]. I have, you know, the running pants or the running shorts where the pocket so I can always carry a juice box[cite: 3503]. You know[cite: 3504]? But, again, during a run, I do like to check my numbers because I don't, you know, I don't want one time, I I did go very, very low during a run[cite: 3504]. I just got distracted[cite: 3541]. I wasn't checking it, and I started to get that numb tingly feeling around your mouth that you get when you go very low[cite: 3505].
Scott Benner That's usually really low, right, for people too[cite: 3506].
Naomi And then I looked, and I was, like, 45 or something[cite: 3507]. And I'm like, oh my god[cite: 3507]. I can't believe I usually, I'm, you know, a little more on top of that when I'm running[cite: 3508]. So I do check it when I run because I like to make sure I'm not going low during a run[cite: 3509]. It's funny[cite: 3510]. I used to go high when I ran, and I think in the beginning, it was like my liver dumping glucose or something[cite: 3510]. I didn't know what it was[cite: 3511]. But from what I've read, you know, it could have been that[cite: 3511]. But now all the time, I tend to skew lower[cite: 3512]. So I like to try to eat something before I go or make sure I have food with me so that I can maintain, you know, a certain level[cite: 3513].
Naomi But there's, I don't know if you there's a woman I follow[cite: 3514]. I follow her on Instagram and TikTok, and she's she's a runner[cite: 3515]. And she's always, like, you know, saying what her numbers are during a run[cite: 3516]. And she I actually saw her run, and She was running in the New York City Marathon, and she was running for breakthrough t one d[cite: 3517]. And, you know, it's just inspirational that Yeah[cite: 3517]. She's able to do it, you know, with but so you can[cite: 3518]. You can do it[cite: 3519]. Well, you're doing it[cite: 3519]. Careful[cite: 3519]. Like, yeah, in marathons, when you have, like, gels and goos and things like that, I don't wanna have that because I don't wanna have to take insulin while I'm running, but I can take a little bit of it[cite: 3520]. If I'm if I'm on the lower side, you know, I can have a little bit of it[cite: 3521]. I can have, like, a sip or two of Gatorade[cite: 3522].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3522]. No[cite: 3523]. I think I mean, I've interviewed a a handful of people who've done marathons[cite: 3523]. They always wanna come on the podcast, and I I always feel bad because my my inclination is always to ask them, like, why are you running so much[cite: 3524]?
Naomi I know[cite: 3525]. But but No[cite: 3525]. Again, it's like every marathon, I say, okay[cite: 3525]. This is definitely [cite: 3526]
Scott Benner the last one[cite: 3526].
Naomi I'm 57[cite: 3526]. Like, I cannot do this anymore in my body[cite: 3526]. But my kids are running it this year, and I wanted you know, just that you know, I'm so excited to do it with them and to have that opportunity[cite: 3527]. So I wanna go out on a high note running it with them[cite: 3528].
Scott Benner There was a woman on recently[cite: 3539]. Do you listen to the podcast[cite: 3541]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3529]. Yes[cite: 3529]. Not not everyone, but, you know[cite: 3530]...
Scott Benner Well Was it [cite: 3530]
Naomi it wasn't Addy, was it[cite: 3530]?
Scott Benner Let me look[cite: 3531]. There's an [cite: 3531]
Naomi an Addy Taylor on[cite: 3531]?
Scott Benner No[cite: 3532]. Oh[cite: 3532],
Naomi she's the runner that I follow[cite: 3532].
Scott Benner I don't know why I can't seem to hook up with her, actually, because I think [cite: 3533]
Naomi Oh, she's Yeah[cite: 3533]. She's very fast too[cite: 3534]. She's I mean, she's a lot younger than I am, but she I think she runs, an eight, eight thirty pace[cite: 3534]. You know[cite: 3534]? I'm an old lady[cite: 3602]. I'm doing the old lady pace[cite: 3603].
Scott Benner Well yeah[cite: 3536]. Oh, episode seventeen thirty one[cite: 3536].
Naomi Okay[cite: 3536].
Scott Benner So let's see[cite: 3536]. Diagnosed forty nine years ago, Linda shares her philosophy on borrowed time and her incredible feat of running in seven marathons on seven continents in seven days[cite: 3537].
Naomi Oh, that's in seven days[cite: 3538]?
Scott Benner And she did it three separate times[cite: 3538].
Naomi Okay[cite: 3539]. What episode is that[cite: 3539]? Seventeen thirty one[cite: 3539]?
Scott Benner Seventeen thirty one[cite: 3539]. As you were talking, I thought, oh, I think Naomi would really like that[cite: 3540]. Yeah[cite: 3540].
Naomi Now that is impressive[cite: 3541]. That is impressive[cite: 3541]. I mean, I'm I'm a runner, but I'm not in that category of running[cite: 3541]. Because a lot of women wanted or a lot of people in general, runners, wanna run the world majors or they wanna run a marathon in every continent[cite: 3542]. But to do it in that short amount of time, I mean, I'm lucky if I can do one a year[cite: 3543]. You know[cite: 3544]?
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3544]. I don't listen[cite: 3544]. I've I I I jogged across the parking lot at the shop right the other day, and that was enough[cite: 3545]. I was good[cite: 3546].
Naomi K[cite: 3546]. And that's something[cite: 3546].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3547]. I I was like, oh, let me get out of the way[cite: 3547]. You know[cite: 3547]?
Naomi Scott, you gotta start somewhere[cite: 3548].
Scott Benner Well, I started and stopped at the other side of the driveway[cite: 3458]. You know, I don't when when you're walking across the may I share a pet peeve[cite: 3549]? When you're walking from your car to the grocery store, please, first of all, let's not zigzag[cite: 3550]. Let's not go diagonally across where people are driving[cite: 3551]. And if your ass is in the way, hustle a little bit[cite: 3552]. You you know what I mean[cite: 3553]? Like, don't [cite: 3553]
Naomi look up pace[cite: 3553].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3554]. Don't look up everybody and go, I see that I've walked in front of your car[cite: 3554]. You're all gonna have to I I I just try to I just try to pick up the pace a little bit[cite: 3555]. Yeah[cite: 3556]. Also, may I may I share[cite: 3556]?
Naomi Well, Scott, I'll give you a suggestion[cite: 3556]. Just park park further away from the entrance, and then you get more steps in[cite: 3557].
Scott Benner Park in the park[cite: 3557]. I'm not out of my mind, Naomi[cite: 3558]. No[cite: 3558]. I actually boy, I'll tell you what[cite: 3558]. I was my I'm sorry[cite: 3559]. My brother is in Wisconsin texting[cite: 3559]. It's still snowing three days later is what he just sent me[cite: 3560].
Naomi That's you know, I'm done with it[cite: 3561]. I'm over it[cite: 3561]. Me too[cite: 3561]. I'm in the Northeast too[cite: 3562]. So I we don't have snow right now, but it's chilly and cold [cite: 3562]
Scott Benner and And why did it start raining again[cite: 3562]? Like, horrible[cite: 3563].
Naomi My my son just ran the, my younger son ran the Napa Marathon, and I was out there[cite: 3563]. And I was just thinking, like, why don't I live out here[cite: 3564]? This is insane[cite: 3564].
Vigilance vs. Longevity Outlook
Scott Benner Okay[cite: 3564]. Beautiful[cite: 3565]. We'll get to that in a half a second[cite: 3565]. I just wanna share with you, I'm not sure if I'm mentally ill or I'm youthful, but I was at, I was at the grocery store recently[cite: 3566]. I can't believe I'm just gonna talk about the grocery store completely, but there were there just weren't many people in it[cite: 3567]. It was a little later at night, and I would, like kinda speed up a little bit and sort of jump up in the air and hold my body weight up on my cart and let the cart take me down the aisle[cite: 3568].
Naomi Oh, you are definitely useful then[cite: 3569].
Scott Benner And and, like and I and I'm like, oh, I and I did it[cite: 3569]. I was like, oh, that was awesome[cite: 3570]. So I do it more lately, like, when no one's in the aisle[cite: 3570]. I wanna be clear not when people are in the aisle, but when the aisle's clear[cite: 3571]. Right[cite: 3571]? And I always feel like this is, like, the secret thing I'm doing that nobody knows about[cite: 3572]. And then I realized it hit me one day[cite: 3573]. There are cameras all over that place[cite: 3573]. There is someone [cite: 3574]
Naomi Someone someone's [cite: 3574]
Scott Benner watching going, you[cite: 3574]. What is this person doing[cite: 3574]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3574]. And you have to be careful[cite: 3575]. Right[cite: 3575]? Because you've had knee surgery and, [cite: 3575]
Scott Benner you know That'll be fine[cite: 3575]. But, like but I honestly, as I'm doing it, I thought I it actually it occurred to me later because I I went out in the parking lot[cite: 3576]. There's this, like, little dip in the parking lot[cite: 3577]. Like, you kinda go down a slight hill[cite: 3577]. And I'm like, why am I walking across the parking lot when I could ride the cart down here[cite: 3578]?
Naomi When I could [cite: 3579]
Scott Benner be So I driving[cite: 3579]. I did that[cite: 3579]. And then I got all I packed up and everything and, you know, gotten the got my car to leave[cite: 3580]. And I actually stopped for a second and thought, I wonder how many 54 year old people would do this[cite: 3581]. Like, is the and that's when it hit me[cite: 3582]. I was like, is this a positive thing about me, or is there something wrong with me[cite: 3583]? And I and I [cite: 3583]
Naomi Only little of both[cite: 3584].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3584]. Right[cite: 3584]?
Naomi That's why But I but I love it because I I'm especially I mean, especially I I was always like this, but more so after a cancer diagnosis[cite: 3585]. You have to live life[cite: 3586]. You have to embrace every moment and find the joy where you can[cite: 3586]. Yeah[cite: 3587]. So why not do that[cite: 3587]? Yeah[cite: 3587]. Why not[cite: 3587]?
Scott Benner My mom passed away in her eighties from cancer, and it taught me a lot about the idea of, like, waiting till the end to do stuff[cite: 3588]. Also Right[cite: 3589]. As you bring it up, like, why are you not why don't you move to California[cite: 3589]? Why don't I I'm trying so hard to get my wish to go, like, south, like, to get it because warm[cite: 3590]. Yeah[cite: 3591]. Because it's terrible here[cite: 3591].
Naomi I know[cite: 3591].
Scott Benner Or and you have context for this[cite: 3591]. I I said okay to I'm doing this talk at Hofstra[cite: 3592]. And I gotta drive out on the island, like, on a Wednesday afternoon[cite: 3593]. And I'm just like the whole time, I'm like, why did I say yes to that[cite: 3594]?
Naomi Not fun[cite: 3034]. Not fun[cite: 3595]. Although people say the traffic in in, outside, you know, San Fran area is bad too[cite: 3595]. But, yeah, in in the metropolitan area, ugh, forget it[cite: 3596].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3597]. But don't you think the weather would, like, stabilize that feeling for you[cite: 3597]?
Naomi I do[cite: 3597]. I say that to my husband all the time[cite: 3598]. You know, why don't we do this[cite: 3598]? But, you know, our kids are in New York[cite: 3599]. Wanna We be close to them[cite: 3599]. He said, you think Jersey is expensive[cite: 3600]? California is [cite: 3600]
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3601]. I I'm listen[cite: 3601]. I'm looking like I looked at Tennessee[cite: 3601]. First of all, Tennessee does not have income tax[cite: 3601]. That's a that's a thing[cite: 3602]. And secondly, people from Tennessee are probably like, please stay where you are[cite: 3602]. Leave us alone[cite: 3603]. But I but [cite: 3603]
Naomi I doubt that[cite: 3603].
Scott Benner But, like 45 I'm looking, like, in an hour radius, like, around, like, Nashville, for example[cite: 3604]. Property is just not nearly as expensive as it is here[cite: 3605].
Naomi Right[cite: 3605]. You [cite: 3606]
Scott Benner know, there's no way that [cite: 3606]
Naomi property tax is a lot lower[cite: 3606].
Scott Benner I you have no idea[cite: 3607]. I saw a house the other day, and I don't know what the house cost, $3,400,000[cite: 3607]. The property taxes were, like, $1,500 a year[cite: 3608].
Naomi It's crazy[cite: 3608]. My, someone that I I worked with that I talked with for many years, she moved down to she retired in New Jersey and moved down to Charleston, that area[cite: 3609]. And, her taxes are I think she pays something like $22,000 a year[cite: 3610].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3610]. Yeah[cite: 3611]. If I ask people to tell you what you pay if you tell you what you pay No[cite: 3611]. People no[cite: 3611].
Naomi Don't do that[cite: 3612]. Don't do that to people[cite: 3612]. Exactly[cite: 3612].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3612]. They'd pass out[cite: 3612].
Naomi Jersey, New York metropolitan area[cite: 3613]. It's really outrageous, but yet, you know, near the Jersey Shore[cite: 3613]. I'm near New York City, so I like those things[cite: 3614].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3614]. I like them too, but I don't actually do any of those things[cite: 3615]. Although my kid did go to the the art museum the other day, and I did think, okay[cite: 3616]. Well, that's a good part about being here[cite: 3617]. But anyway okay[cite: 3617]. I wanna talk about your your diabetes care and your, you know Okay[cite: 3618]. Your assertion that you're, you know, very focused but found a little more leniency for yourself[cite: 3619]. So where did all that come from[cite: 3620]? Obviously, it's not coming from your endocrinologist[cite: 3620]. You did your own research[cite: 3621]. What did you go out and learn[cite: 3621, 3622]? How did learning that form and shape how you wanted to take care of yourself[cite: 3622]?
Research and Vocabulary Gap
Naomi Well, I do like to be on top of everything that's going on with my health[cite: 3240]. You know[cite: 3623]? And so I knew that I wasn't going to be a passive diabetic patient[cite: 3624]. I wanted to do everything within reason that I could do to, not have nondiabetic numbers, but to be within a healthy [cite: 3625]
Scott Benner Do your best[cite: 3301].
Naomi For for a diabetic[cite: 3626]. Right[cite: 3626]? So I started just, you know, following people on Instagram and, you know, hearing about different, like, book recommendations[cite: 3626]. Of course, you know, I read, you know, Healthy Kick Ass Lada, and I read, Think Like a Pancreas[cite: 3327]. I actually had to read that like many people do, like, two or three times because it it was very technical[cite: 3328]. And in the beginning, I didn't have the vocabulary, and I didn't really understand it until I started using insulin myself and became familiar with I was never even taught the word bolus[cite: 3329]. Didn't know what My diabetes educator never used that word[cite: 3330]. So when that kept coming up, I kept thinking, what is this bolus thing that everyone is talking about[cite: 3331]? So I had to learn all of this[cite: 3332]. And the more I learned, the more I wanted to know[cite: 3332]. And, you know, the latest research that's happening and, you know, obviously, learning about islet cell transplants and, you know, looking at clinical trials and things like that[cite: 3333].
Naomi And, you know, the latest research that's happening and, you know, obviously, learning about islet cell transplants and, you know, looking at clinical trials and things like that[cite: 3633]. So I really wanted to put myself in a position of knowledge so that I would be able to I realized early on that it wasn't going to be my endocrinologist[cite: 3634]. Like, the difference between diabetes and cancer is with cancer, I let my oncologist direct everything[cite: 3635]. She's the expert[cite: 3636]. This is cancer[cite: 3636]. This is a big deal[cite: 3636]. Whatever she tells me to do, I do[cite: 3637]. With the endocrinologist, I learned early on that I might know a little bit more than she does when it comes to dosing or the limits and the benefits of different types of pumps and things like that[cite: 3637]. I realized that early on[cite: 3638]. So I wanted to make sure that I educated myself and read everything that I could read and, you know, following certain doctors on on Twitter that are diabetes experts[cite: 3638]. You know[cite: 3639]?
Scott Benner Do you think your endo doesn't know, or do you think that the the way that the visits are set up doesn't allow for long conversation[cite: 3439]? Or [cite: 3440]
Naomi I think it's more that, that you're in and out in such a short amount of time[cite: 3640]. And she does defer to the diabetes educator in her office more so because I think that I don't know, you know, if it's her area of expertise or not, but I I I see her referring me to you know, oh, that's a question for the diabetes educator or ask the diabetes educator that, or we'll have her look at your numbers and, you know, tweak things if necessary[cite: 3641]. But but they're never the ones to tweak things[cite: 3642]. I'm always the one to tweak things[cite: 3642]. Like, I adjust my IC ratio[cite: 3643]. You know[cite: 3643]?
Scott Benner Does your educator have that knowledge[cite: 3643]? Do they seem more knowledgeable to than the endo to you[cite: 3644]?
Naomi Or Yes[cite: 3644]. I haven't[cite: 3644]. I just kind of stopped going because I feel like I'm at the point now where I do know I certainly know plenty enough to manage myself[cite: 3645]. You know, I don't know[cite: 3646]. It's hard to say, Scott[cite: 3646]. In the beginning, I don't think I got the best education from the diabetes educator[cite: 3647]. I was told to take a few units of insulin before meals[cite: 3648].
Scott Benner Mhmm[cite: 3648].
Naomi But I she didn't go into depth about insulin to carb ratio or count the carbs[cite: 3649]. And I I I literally just started taking three units of insulin with every meal regardless of what I was eating[cite: 3650]. And then I realized, wait[cite: 3651]. I'm dropping, like, really low[cite: 3651]. Like, what's and I called her, and she said, well, you have to you you know, it's based on the number of carbs you and maybe you know what[cite: 3652]? To be fair, it is possible that she did go over that with me, and I was too overwhelmed at the initial appointment to process it[cite: 3653]. So I don't wanna completely throw her under the bus[cite: 3654]. It could have been my [cite: 3654]
Scott Benner Right[cite: 3654]. Are you are you comfortable partially throwing her under the bus[cite: 3655]? Does it sound like a thing you would do, like, here that you have to count your carbs to measure your insulin and that you would ignore that[cite: 3656]?
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3657]. I don't know[cite: 3657]. And that's that's why I don't really go to her anymore because now I'm now I know enough where I can you know[cite: 3657]? Okay[cite: 3658]. Maybe I'm really not a one to 15 ratio anymore[cite: 3658]. Let me try going down to one to 12, you know, and see what that does[cite: 3659]. And I really like to I remember one podcast you talked about your daughter's management and correcting if she went above one twenty[cite: 3660].
Scott Benner Mhmm[cite: 3661].
Naomi And at at the time, I was still early on[cite: 3661]. I thought, oh my god[cite: 3661]. I would love to be at one twenty[cite: 3662]. Like, why would you correct them[cite: 3662]? But now, of course, I'll do, like, a micro correct you know, a little micro dose correction at that because I wanna stay under you know[cite: 3663]?
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3664].
Naomi I just you know, so I'm I'm a lot better at management[cite: 3664].
Scott Benner Are you using a manual pump[cite: 3665]? Like, are you using Omnipod dash[cite: 3665]?
Naomi I use no[cite: 3665]. I'm using Omnipod five[cite: 3666]. You are[cite: 3666]? I use it in auto mode because Jenny said to do that[cite: 3666].
Scott Benner Oh, wait[cite: 3667]. Wait[cite: 3667]. Manual[cite: 3667]?
Naomi No[cite: 3667]. Auto[cite: 3667].
Scott Benner You're letting it make its decisions[cite: 3667]?
Naomi Yes[cite: 3668]. Yes[cite: 3668]. But it doesn't it doesn't give me that much, I think, because I don't use that much insulin, like, throughout every day[cite: 3668]. It doesn't give me that much basal[cite: 3669].
Scott Benner Okay[cite: 3669].
Naomi You know, I'm mostly bolusing for it, but, like, just for fun, I'm, like, looking what I am right now[cite: 3670]. Like, I'm at 94, which is great, but I still have, like, one point five units in me from breakfast[cite: 3671]. So that's why I do like to manage it because I still have 1.5 units on board[cite: 3672].
Scott Benner You wanna pay it[cite: 3748].
Naomi I don't wanna go low, so I check it and, you know, I'll have whatever[cite: 3673].
Lifestyle Adjustments and Emotional Toll
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3674]. And you're the way you eat now is not different than the way you ate before diabetes, or it is[cite: 3674]?
Naomi No[cite: 3675]. No[cite: 3675]. It it's definitely different[cite: 3675]. It's definitely different[cite: 3675]. But it took me a long time to get there because I was a big pasta bread person[cite: 3676]. And and I still I do love that stuff, but I don't I definitely hardly ever eat that stuff only because for me, once in a while, if I'm at a restaurant, maybe I'll order pasta[cite: 3677]. But for me, it's just harder to dose for it because if you don't know the exact number of carbs, as you know, you know, it's just a little trickier[cite: 3678]. So I sometimes will do it[cite: 3679]. Like, I'll sometimes say, screw it[cite: 3679]. I'm just getting whatever I want[cite: 3679]. I'm gonna get the cake too for dessert[cite: 3680]. You know[cite: 3680]? And I'll estimate the the number of units or if I'm at a Mexican restaurant or something[cite: 3681]. You know[cite: 3682]? And then I end up with, like, taking twenty, twenty five units for the meal, and I'm still, like, either going low or high[cite: 3682]. And so to me, it's almost not worth the trouble because it sends me into a little bit of, like, an emotional I I don't like how I feel emotionally because I'm like, ugh[cite: 3683]. Got it[cite: 3684]. You know[cite: 3684]? I didn't get it right or something like that[cite: 3684]. So it's almost easier for me to stick to the things I know[cite: 3685]. You know[cite: 3685]? Like, always get like [cite: 3686]
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3686]. Naomi, you beat yourself up about it if it doesn't go [cite: 3686]
Naomi I do[cite: 3686]. I think [cite: 3687]
Scott Benner your age[cite: 3687]? You've been around a while[cite: 3687]. You don't know[cite: 3687]?
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3688]. No[cite: 3688]. I'm I'm experienced with it, and I know that it's not I know that sometimes it is a guessing game[cite: 3688]. But I think, you know, there are times where, okay, you know, pizza, you're gonna do an extended bolus[cite: 3689]. And I do the extended bolus, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work[cite: 3690]. So then I'm like, ugh[cite: 3691]. It's just easier not to eat the pizza[cite: 3691]. You know[cite: 3691]?
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3692]. I understand[cite: 3692]. I I just wondered, like, because you're you know, at your age, I thought maybe there'd be some more, I don't know, grace built in [cite: 3692]
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3693]. For you[cite: 3693]. Yeah[cite: 3693]. No[cite: 3693]. Well, that's that's the goal[cite: 3693]. I mean, I'm trying to do that every day[cite: 3694]. I'm trying to, like yeah[cite: 3694]. Like so some days, like, I know my range, I do a 70 to one forty range[cite: 3695]. I know that I'm not gonna be in a 100% range, like, every day all the time[cite: 3696]. Yeah[cite: 3696]. I would love to, but I don't I used to beat myself up if I was at, like, 90% in range[cite: 3697]. And now I don't do that at least[cite: 3698]. Now I'm like, 90% in range is awesome[cite: 3698]. You go, girl[cite: 3699]. You know[cite: 3699]?
Scott Benner How do you beat yourself up[cite: 3601]? Is it, like, is it unpleasant self talk[cite: 3700]? Of course in your mind[cite: 3700]? Do you [cite: 3701]
Naomi Well, it's a lot of, it's actually for me, it's more like, oh god[cite: 3701]. But, I'm so educated about this[cite: 3702]. Why didn't I get that dosing right[cite: 3702]? And then it's also even though I know this is an irrational fear, I worry about long term side effects from spiking too high even though rationally, I know that that is not gonna affect my life unless I'm high, you know, above 200 all the time [cite: 3703] Which is such a rarity[cite: 3703]. You know[cite: 3704]? So as much self talk as I do to that's negative, I'm trying to do a lot more self talk that's hey[cite: 3704]. Listen[cite: 3705]. Sometimes you hit it, and sometimes you don't, and it's okay[cite: 3705]. Yeah[cite: 3705]. I'm not gonna have long term side effects, you know, because I spiked to two fifty one day for an hour[cite: 3706].
The Parenting Journey and Adrenaline Spikes
Scott Benner My journey[cite: 3707]. My god[cite: 3707]. I just I I tried so hard to find a word that wasn't journey, by the way, just now[cite: 3707]. But but but I guess my personal journey through all this from, you know, Arden being two and newly diagnosed to her being you know, this summer will be 22[cite: 3708]. So Arden's Arden's gonna have diabetes for twenty years in July[cite: 3708]. And [cite: 3709]
Naomi And how is she doing with it[cite: 3709]?
Scott Benner You know, really well[cite: 3709].
Naomi And she she manages herself now[cite: 3710].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3710]. Yeah[cite: 3710]. I mean, I I'd say, like, ninety eight percent[cite: 3711]. Like, there's times, like, I know, you there's times I'll I got a text the other day while she was running around trying to get out the door for for class, and she's I just got a text, it just said, please come fill a pod for me[cite: 3712]. And I and I was like, okay[cite: 3713]. Like, stuff like that[cite: 3713]. Or Yeah[cite: 3713]. Like, once in a while, like, she when she goes out and spends the night somewhere else, she takes just this little, like, bag she takes with her with all of her stuff in case she needs something[cite: 3714]. She's like, I need you to pack my bag or something[cite: 3715]. Yes[cite: 3715]. My point is that from it's been it's been a ride[cite: 3716]. You know what I mean[cite: 3716]? Yeah[cite: 3717]. And I don't think it I don't think it's over yet[cite: 3717]. But Yeah[cite: 3717].
Scott Benner From, like [cite: 3718]
Naomi And and it's exhausting[cite: 3718]. It's the it's the fatigue of the constant decision making really, you know, cannot be understated, I don't think[cite: 3718].
Scott Benner I have to tell you[cite: 3719]. I mean, I just I had some thoughts the other day about that[cite: 3719]. I'll share as I'm going through this[cite: 3720]. But, like, you know, from when from two years old, you're like the abject horror and shock[cite: 3720]. Right[cite: 3721]? And then they're like, oh god[cite: 3721]. I'm gonna kill her[cite: 3721]. Like, that thing[cite: 3721]. Then the recognition that, like, I don't know what's going on[cite: 3722]. Like, I say to people all the time, like, I didn't have a podcast to listen to[cite: 3723]. Like, I didn't know what was I Yeah[cite: 3724]. I didn't know what was going on[cite: 3724]. Right[cite: 3724]? And then you're looking at the higher a one c's, eight's, nine's[cite: 3725]. You look at the doctor, you realize, they don't I don't think they're gonna be helpful[cite: 3726]. You know[cite: 3727]? So then you gotta figure out on your own, you know, for me, figuring out on your own, I don't know what it says about me, but I didn't go exterior of this house figure it out[cite: 3727]. I'd I'd I'd turned to, like, you know, experimenting with things, figuring stuff out[cite: 3728]. Luckily, a CGM came, helped me along[cite: 3729]. Getting onto a pump was nice, but, like, not not exactly, like, you know, a big shift to the the care[cite: 3730]. It was more about the way you care for it[cite: 3731].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3731].
Scott Benner And then she starts to get older and has every, you know, concern issue that you can imagine, you know, trying to manage and, like, all the stuff that comes with growing and getting older and[cite: 3731, 3732]...
Naomi Being a teenager, being a younger girl[cite: 3732].
Scott Benner Son really or father daughter relationships, like, the whole thing[cite: 3733]. She gets hypothyroidism at some point[cite: 3733]. That adds to the problem[cite: 3734]. All the way up to, you know, in the last couple of years, she's really developed, like, an aversion to needles[cite: 3734]. So, like, like, all that stuff, like, everything from there to here and all that in between Yeah[cite: 3735]. And thinking you're doing well personally when you're not and not realizing it[cite: 3736]. So Right[cite: 3736]. I mentioned earlier, like, you know, like, a couple of my medical things, but, like, one of them is that I use a GLP med now[cite: 3737]. I probably have for nearly three years[cite: 3737]. Right[cite: 3738]?
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3738].
Scott Benner And I've lost about I I think at my at my biggest number, lost about 70 pounds[cite: 3739]. I seem to have kinda, like, gone back to about 65[cite: 3740]. Like, it seems to be where my body is sitting at for lack of a better way of saying it[cite: 3740]. I never thought of myself as a heavy person[cite: 3741]. I I don't really know another way to explain that[cite: 3472]. And and [cite: 3472]
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3742]. Mhmm[cite: 3742].
Scott Benner Even so much so is that when I started losing weight, I think I had lost, like, my first 15 pounds[cite: 3743]. My son was living in Atlanta at the time for his, like, first adult job[cite: 3744]. And we went to visit him, and I remember walking in the door of his apartment and just being like, I can't wait for him to look at me and go, oh my god[cite: 3745]. No[cite: 3746]. My dad's lost weight[cite: 3746]. And after, like, an hour or so realizing this was not happening, and I and I said to him, I'm like I'm like, maybe this is just a boy thing[cite: 3746]. I'm like, how am I looking[cite: 3747]?
Naomi Have you noticed anything[cite: 3747]?
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3747]. Yeah[cite: 3747]. Yeah[cite: 3747]. Like, it now is a good time to say that I look like I've lost weight[cite: 3748]. And he goes, oh, I have you[cite: 3748]? And then we had, like, a real conversation[cite: 3749]. He said, I don't think of you as a fat person, he said[cite: 3750].
Naomi How interesting[cite: 3750].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3751]. And then I looked back at some pictures over, you know, time Mhmm [cite: 3751] and realized that I was not a person jumping in front of cameras a lot[cite: 3752]. And then my wish pulled up a photo of us, I think, at my son's, like, senior day baseball game in college, and I am so fat in that picture[cite: 3753].
Naomi Probably yeah[cite: 3754].
Scott Benner I had no idea[cite: 3754]. And and I haven't gotten the nerve up yet to ask my wife, and I hope Arden never hears this one[cite: 3754]. But I haven't gotten the nerve up yet to ask my wife, how much of what happened to us do you think is the stress from Arden's diagnosis[cite: 3755]?
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3756]. Yeah[cite: 3756].
Scott Benner And how much of it was just how we are or what we are Yes[cite: 3756]. Whatever[cite: 3757].
Naomi Right[cite: 3757]. Right[cite: 3757]. And just lifestyle lifestyle or what you eat and things like that[cite: 3457]. But I no[cite: 3758].
Scott Benner I sleeping[cite: 3758].
Naomi I think right[cite: 3758]. The diabetes and I one thing I do wanna say is it is hard enough managing this disease as an adult managing myself[cite: 3759]. I give so much credit to all the parents out there[cite: 3760]. I cannot even imagine[cite: 3760]. You know, I'm checking getting up in the middle of the night or my alarm goes off in the middle of the night[cite: 3761].
Naomi I cannot imagine, you know, having that responsibility of I give you so much credit for doing that, you know, for so many years[cite: 3762]. And I do think, like, lack of sleep, worrying about that, the decision fatigue, and all of that, and the stress, I'm sure that it has an impact in some way[cite: 3763]. I mean, you know, it probably impacts different people in different ways, but I think you had her on, what what's her name[cite: 3764]? Bain's mom[cite: 3765]? Bain[cite: 3765].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3765]. Mar Marley[cite: 3765].
Naomi I love her love them[cite: 3765]. Yeah[cite: 3766]. I love them[cite: 3766]. And, like, first of all, the fact that, you know, she puts it all out there, not only does it educate in the same way that you have done[cite: 3766]. I mean, it is educating so many people and teaching so many parents, you know, what to do, how to live like this, and, you know, normalizing it to some extent[cite: 3767].
Naomi But but what she goes through and with a little baby toddler like that and what you went through and all parents who have, you know, type one kids, it is cannot be easy[cite: 3768]. You know[cite: 3769]? And [cite: 3769]
Scott Benner I'm gonna have to talk about this somewhere in more in more like [cite: 3769]
Naomi stress like, that it sounds like you're coming out of it now[cite: 3769].
Scott Benner I swear to you, like, I just I looked at that photo and I thought that can't be me[cite: 3770]. And then I realized, like, that's probably how I was a large part of the time[cite: 3771]. And I swear to you, if you would have come up to me and said, hey, Scott[cite: 3772]. Tell me you know, be be honest and tell me about your weight right now[cite: 3773]. I would have said something like, yeah[cite: 3773]. I could I should probably lose 20 pounds[cite: 3774].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3774].
Scott Benner And if you said, are you fat[cite: 3774]? I would have said, no[cite: 3775]. No[cite: 3776]. I'm just like, I just need I I didn't[cite: 3776]. Like, you can't see it[cite: 3776].
Naomi Did you feel unhealthy[cite: 3777]? Did you [cite: 3777]
Scott Benner feel Yeah[cite: 3777]. But you make excuses for everything[cite: 3777]. You know, like, had, what's that[cite: 3777]? I had, plantar fasciitis[cite: 3778].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3778].
Scott Benner Right[cite: 3778]? Really bad[cite: 3779]. Like, terrible[cite: 3779]. And you think, like, oh, what's wrong with my heel[cite: 3779]? And now I realize, like, what's wrong with my heel is that I was carrying around 70[cite: 3779].
Naomi Was it weight[cite: 3779].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3781]. Yeah[cite: 3781]. Yeah[cite: 3781]. But I at the time, I didn't think about that[cite: 3781]. I wonder how much of my knee having to get cleaned out was that[cite: 3782]. All that other stuff[cite: 3782]. And, yes, my back hurt like crazy all the time[cite: 3783]. My lower back was and I just said, oh, I've my back's always hurt[cite: 3784]. And, you know, like, just all these different things[cite: 3785]. And I don't know[cite: 3785]. And then, you know, it's funny[cite: 3785].
Scott Benner I think that there's also times that my weight wasn't as whatever it was when I saw that photo[cite: 3786]. In those times, you're probably a little more active[cite: 3787]. Those are probably times where you find yourself a little more in front front of a camera[cite: 3788]. So then you remember yourself in the pictures where you look or you take a photo from a great angle, and then, like, that's how you think of yourself all the time[cite: 3789].
Naomi I think that you have a point because there's definitely this part of, you know, type one diabetes management that that people don't see where it is the you know, sort of like this overwhelming sense of, you know, you're managing stuff all the time and you're making decisions[cite: 3790]. And for a parent, you're worried about your daughter[cite: 3791]. So you're you have that sort of this, like, background noise all the time, and I I definitely think that can impact your health [cite: 3792] and weight and all that kind things[cite: 3792].
Remote Dosing, Algorithms, and the Uncoupling Phase
Scott Benner Worries not Yeah[cite: 3793]. Is boy, worry[cite: 3793].
Naomi Like, coming coming out of this now with Barden being a young adult, you know, you will be moving into a different phase where it really is her her deal and hers like, you know, will it free up, like, that mental space in your head and, you know, you'll have, you know, all of this other [cite: 3793]
Scott Benner Well, I'm gonna say no, probably[cite: 3793].
Naomi But you always worry about your kids, but the diabetes aspect is a whole other[cite: 3794].
Scott Benner Well, I I mean, it's nice to say, but let me tell you this as a great example[cite: 3794]. Right[cite: 3795]? Last night, I told you when we first got on, like, I slept in this morning because I was up in the middle of the night[cite: 3795]. So last night, I don't know, around 03:15 in the morning, I've woken up by something[cite: 3796]. I'm like, what was that[cite: 3796]? You know[cite: 3797]? And Mhmm[cite: 3797]. It's Arden's blood sugar[cite: 3797]. Mhmm[cite: 3797]. And it's going up[cite: 3798].
Scott Benner And she's at the end of a pump, and I think to myself, like, if I was when I thought it was, even at 03:15, back in the day, I never would have let her go to bed with this pump on[cite: 3798]. Right[cite: 3799]. I would've said, hey[cite: 3799]. We're gonna change your pump before you go to Right[cite: 3799]? But she's trying to ride it till the end[cite: 3800]. It's different[cite: 3801]. I'm not telling her what to do[cite: 3801]. Blah blah blah[cite: 3801]. So I [cite: 3801]
Naomi hate to waste the insulin[cite: 3801].
Scott Benner No[cite: 3802]. Trust me[cite: 3802]. I don't care about that part[cite: 3802]. I care about the control part[cite: 3802]. And it's an old site, and I I see it not working well at the very end here[cite: 3803]. And I would have swapped that pump before she went to bed, but she didn't[cite: 3804]. That's fine[cite: 3804]. It's three fifteen[cite: 3805]. I'm seeing a one forty diagonal up number[cite: 3805].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3805].
Scott Benner And I think, at first, I guess I'm tired[cite: 3806]. I don't think of it at all[cite: 3806]. It probably just hits me the algorithm will take care of it[cite: 3807]. But then 03:30 comes around and I realize it's one sixty five[cite: 3808]. And I go, okay[cite: 3808]. So I pick my phone up and I can still, like, remote bolus, like, because, you know, walking into her room when she's 21 is weird[cite: 3809]. You know[cite: 3810]? And I tried very hard not to do that[cite: 3810]. I looked at what the the algorithm had been doing[cite: 3811]. I reset a slightly lower target to make it more aggressive, and then I I put some insulin[cite: 3812].
Scott Benner And after I put the insulin in, I thought, I don't think that was enough[cite: 3813]. But I don't wanna be too aggressive because [cite: 3813]
Naomi Right[cite: 3814].
Scott Benner She really does take care of this on her own, and maybe I should just go wake her up and blah blah blah[cite: 3815]. But I just anyway, I put in the little bolus[cite: 3816]. Twenty minutes later, I was like, that wasn't enough[cite: 3817]. I put in a little more, and thirty minutes later, I was like, this isn't gonna do it[cite: 3818]. I made one larger bolus, like, don't know, like a unit and a half or something like that[cite: 3819]. Like, you know, larger compared to the first one[cite: 3820]. And I did get on top of it, and I did get her blood sugar back down to, 95[cite: 3821]. And then I went back to sleep at 05:30 in the morning[cite: 3821].
Scott Benner And I was, like, sitting there trying to be busy[cite: 3822]. I was actually doing stuff for the podcast[cite: 3822]. I made this great I I think I decided on a new, series to make with Jenny[cite: 3823]. Like, I was doing a bunch of stuff, but I wanted to be asleep because I'm old[cite: 3824]. I can't be up in the middle of the night like this anymore[cite: 3825]. Yeah[cite: 3825]. Right[cite: 3825]?
Scott Benner So now I'm a little lucky[cite: 3826]. I didn't I wasn't recording with you until eleven[cite: 3826]. I just opened up my phone and pushed my alarm way back, and I thought, I'll I'll make this sleep up in the morning[cite: 3827]. But most people do not have that luxury[cite: 3828]. And, you know, like, most people can't just say, well, I'm just not gonna get up in the morning[cite: 3828]. Yeah[cite: 3829]. My I have a weird job[cite: 3829]. You know[cite: 3830]? What I realized is that once I was up and I saw her blood sugar rising, I couldn't just go back to sleep and let it keep going up[cite: 3830]. Like, I wasn't gonna be able to do that[cite: 3831]. Yeah[cite: 3831]. I mean, it just seems unreasonable not to do something about it[cite: 3832]. Knowing the situation the pump was in, end of us I I this isn't Yeah[cite: 3833]. It's not gonna work[cite: 3834].
Naomi Up[cite: 3834].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3834]. So she gets up this morning, and the shower lately has been making her blood sugar rise[cite: 3835]. So she gets up in the morning, and I think if I was in charge, I would definitely change that pump before she got the shower[cite: 3836]. So she was getting, like, fresh from that, and I'd put in a bolus[cite: 3837]. But she's not gonna do that, and I don't look because this is the part where she's gonna have to figure it out[cite: 3838]. She actually [cite: 3838]
Naomi said say now she's at the age where, you know, I don't know how she felt about you, you know, being on top of managing her diabetes[cite: 3839]. You know[cite: 3840]? You had to be when she was very young[cite: 3840]. But as she got older, did she did she look at it as sort of like, oh, thank goodness[cite: 3841]. Someone else is managing this for me, or was she, you know, even, like, through her teenage years, oh god[cite: 3842]. I can do this by myself, dad[cite: 3843].
Scott Benner No[cite: 3843]. She was good right up until, like she was fine with it[cite: 3843]. I would say, like, her second year of college, we started to, like, separate even more[cite: 3844]. I mean, we had been slowly separating over time, which was the plan[cite: 3845]. But a better second year of college, it was the first time I got like that[cite: 3846]. I'm an adult[cite: 3847]. And I was like, oh, okay[cite: 3847]. Yeah[cite: 3847]. Because I thought you were 19, but whatever[cite: 3848].
Naomi Right[cite: 3848]. Is that hard for you to give up the control[cite: 3849]?
Scott Benner What did Gwyneth Paltrow do to that poor man in that band[cite: 3850]? Did she thoughtfully uncouple from him or something like that[cite: 3851]?
Naomi Did Oh, right[cite: 3851].
Scott Benner When she said that, she's like, we're thoughtfully uncoupling up uncoupling[cite: 3851, 3852].
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3852]. You're thoughtfully uncoupling[cite: 3852].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3853]. Yeah[cite: 3853]. Yeah[cite: 3853]. So what so we were doing that, right, you know, and have been doing that for, you know, to the point where we're not really I'm not that involved, like, the day to day anymore[cite: 3853]. But Yeah[cite: 3854]. I watched this morning go exactly the way I knew it was gonna go[cite: 3854].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3855].
Scott Benner And my hope is is that she is now gathering the same data that I was gathering back in the day and that she will come to the same Yes[cite: 3855]. Or or similar, you know, conclusion that I came to[cite: 3856].
Naomi She probably will because she grew up with you as her dad, and she, [cite: 3857] you know, was able to have that advantage of learning from you know[cite: 3857]?
Scott Benner Because of all that, if I don't stop her from getting high overnight, she's not gonna stop it[cite: 3858]. She isn't waking up[cite: 3859]. Yeah[cite: 3859]. And this morning, because of just because of the order she did things in this morning, her blood sugar popped up over 200[cite: 3859]. Now I've seen I can tell she's already changed the pump, and she's put in insulin, and it's gonna come back down, and she's gonna be fine and everything[cite: 3859]. But, like, those are those little things, like, I don't think she knows yet the value of stopping that 200 from ever happening[cite: 3860].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3861].
Scott Benner Not that it's a problem one time[cite: 3861].
Naomi Right[cite: 3861].
Scott Benner But if it's happening every three days, then there's a value in changing your structure, like, how you structure your time[cite: 3862]. I a 100% believe she's gonna do it[cite: 3863]. But Yeah[cite: 3863]. She's I'm watching her go through it right now, and it's interesting because you probably one of the reasons I asked you earlier, like, you know, you're older[cite: 3864]. Why don't you know not to not beat yourself up[cite: 3865]?
Naomi Right[cite: 3865].
Scott Benner And I look at her, and I realized that what she's doing right now is she's trying to find she's trying to find the way she does it, and she's trying to make it work within her life[cite: 3866].
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3867]. And she's still early on in being independent about it[cite: 3867].
Scott Benner So For sure[cite: 3867]. Yeah[cite: 3849]. Yeah[cite: 3849]. So I don't I'm not I'm not at all, like, I wanna And [cite: 3868]
Naomi she and she also she's at the age where she should be she has a lot of other stuff going on, and she should be living her life and not constantly thinking about diabetes like some of us[cite: 3868].
Scott Benner And that's the balance balance[cite: 3869]. That we're striking right now is that I see that listen[cite: 3869]. I'll say over and over again[cite: 3870]. In college, 21, managing it herself, somewhere between, like, a six three and a six seven usually she stays[cite: 3870]. I think that's awesome[cite: 3871]. Like, I've just I've interviewed too many too many young women in college who were like, I don't know[cite: 3871]. I was an eight or a nine or a 10 or 11[cite: 3872]. I wasn't even paying attention[cite: 3872]. I don't know[cite: 3873]. Like, I think this is a crazy win[cite: 3873]. And I do think she'll get back to it, but she called it the other day[cite: 3874]. Something was happening the other day, I was like, hey, Arden[cite: 3875]. Like, I don't mean to be in your business[cite: 3876]. I was like, but please take a look at this[cite: 3877]. You know what I mean[cite: 3877]?
Scott Benner And she said, dad, this is my health journey[cite: 3878].
Naomi Wow[cite: 3878].
Scott Benner And I was like, she's got such a sarcastic sense of humor that I couldn't tell if she was fucking with me or if she [cite: 3879]
Naomi mocking you[cite: 3879].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3880]. Your yeah[cite: 3880]. Or or if she really feels that way[cite: 3880]. And what I I kind of left the moment with was thinking, I think it's a little bit of both[cite: 3881]. Like, I think she's uncomfortably making fun of it, but she does mean that[cite: 3882]. Like, she means I'm trying to figure this out[cite: 3883].
Naomi And she's learning as she goes[cite: 3883].
Scott Benner And I think she's doing terrific[cite: 3884]. Like, if she hears this as later in life, you know, Arden, I thought you'd I thought you were doing terrific the whole time you were doing it[cite: 3884]. So,劇 there's still little stuff[cite: 3885].
The Disconnect in National Guidelines
Naomi Can I, I know our time is up, but I just wanted to ask you two things because I'm so I feel so fortunate to get to talk to you[cite: 3885]? I've listened to you for so long[cite: 3886]. You've done such good in the diabetes community about just teaching people about how to manage their diabetes in a very in-depth, intentional way[cite: 3887]. So thank you for that[cite: 3888]. But I wanted to ask you, why is it that you know, the American Diabetes Association will say, you know, you're fine, between, you know, 70 and one eighty[cite: 3888]. Like, that's the range you should be aiming for[cite: 3889]. You know, 6.4, like a one c, you're okay as long as you're under seven[cite: 3890].
Naomi And other experts in the diabetes field are like, no[cite: 3891]. You should aim for nondiabetic numbers or you should be, you know, under you you should have, like, a 5.5 a one c[cite: 3892]. You know[cite: 3893]? Why why is there this, like, disconnect[cite: 3893]? You know[cite: 3893]? Because sometimes you don't know what to follow[cite: 3894]. I kinda wanna follow, you know, the guidelines of being a little more lax and and thinking, like, I've gotta live a long healthy life, but yet you have this other group contingent of peep you know, guessing contingency of people saying, you know, you've gotta be, you know, below six a one c, you know, and I don't know[cite: 3894]. What what are your thoughts on that[cite: 3895]?
Scott Benner You know[cite: 3895]? No one's invited me into a meeting to talk or to listen to what they're thinking[cite: 3896]. But my from the outside and at the risk of sounding like a, you know, a prepper who's, you know, building a coffee table out of, dried dry good foods, I don't think I'd be looking for an institution to tell me how to take good care of myself[cite: 3897].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3897].
Scott Benner And I don't think it's because they have bad, intentions[cite: 3898]. I think they probably make a decision that we're gonna say something that will most reasonably capture as many people as possible[cite: 3899].
Naomi Right[cite: 3900].
Scott Benner And people who are, like, consistently above 200 if you can get them below one eighty all the time[cite: 3900]. What a joy that would be for them[cite: 3901]. Yeah[cite: 3901]. Right[cite: 3901]? Right[cite: 3901]? And so they're not speaking to you one at a time[cite: 3902].
Scott Benner Mhmm[cite: 3903]. So I think they look at the technology[cite: 3903]. They probably talk to doctors[cite: 3903]. I mean, what do you see in your practice[cite: 3904]? What are people capable of[cite: 3904]? And talk and I think the problem is they're talking about us as an amalgam[cite: 3905]. Mhmm[cite: 3905]. So what can we expect the populace to do[cite: 3906]? I think they could handle 70 to one eighty[cite: 3906]. And there are gonna be people that can't handle it, and they'll they'll drift out on the high side, and their health will go the wrong way that way[cite: 3907]. And there'll be people who can handle it, who, I guess, they're hoping will do what you did and learn more about it and and go towards a lower, you know, more stable number[cite: 3908].
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3909].
Scott Benner I just think it's a limitation of, I don't know, of of [cite: 3909]
Naomi Trying to meet the masses[cite: 3953].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3910]. Yeah[cite: 3910]. Right[cite: 3910]. Just I how are you supposed to do that[cite: 3910]? And Mhmm[cite: 3910]. I do also think that it's a disservice to do that to people Mhmm [cite: 3911] because, you know, why are we least common denominating people's health, you know, and saying, look[cite: 3912]. There are gonna be some people who can't maintain a one eighty blood sugar[cite: 3913]. We don't want them to feel bad or whatever else they're concerned about there[cite: 3914]. At the expense of a person like yourself who I think pretty clearly can keep an a one c in the fives if they want to[cite: 3915].
Scott Benner Mhmm[cite: 3916]. Why put that pressure on you that maybe you're working too hard and you don't need to be[cite: 3916]?
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3917]. That's what I'm trying to figure out[cite: 3917]. Right[cite: 3917]? Like, am I working too hard[cite: 3917]?
Scott Benner Because I see those conversations online all the time[cite: 3918]. People are they'll say, well, there hasn't been any study that proves that having an a one c, a blah blah blah, this low, is it any valuable[cite: 3919]? And I'm like, well, they how are they gonna study that[cite: 3920]? Right[cite: 3920]. Like and so saying there hasn't been a study doesn't make it it doesn't make it a fact either[cite: 3921]. Like, you don't know[cite: 3922]. And I'm gonna tell you they don't know either, and no one knows[cite: 3922]. So my opinion always is if I can't substantiate it, if God can't come down himself or herself and say, if you have a 6.5 a one c your whole life, you're absolutely gonna be fine[cite: 3923]. It's not a problem[cite: 3924]. Then why would I not on the side of caution and push for a lower a one c Mhmm [cite: 3924] or more time in range or a tighter range, a lower tighter range, or whatever[cite: 3925]. Like, that's a pretty big coin flip you're taking there[cite: 3926]. Because the day you find out it's not okay, you don't get to jump in a time machine and go back and do it again[cite: 3927]. You're you're now stuck with whatever outcome comes[cite: 3928]. And so so that's, you know, much like everything else in life[cite: 3928]. You're it's a risk reward[cite: 3932]. You're you have to weigh it on your own and decide how much effort am I gonna put in, and is some of that effort gonna be wasted, or am I gonna you know, or is it gonna work out for me[cite: 3929]? Or by the way, can I keep a five five a one c and still something goes wrong[cite: 3930]?
Naomi You could get cancer[cite: 3950].
Scott Benner Well, if you're yeah[cite: 3932]. And if you're so if you're looking for if you're looking for, promises, I would say this life thing's probably not for you[cite: 3932].
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3933]. Right[cite: 3933]. That's a good perspective[cite: 3933]. Yeah[cite: 3933]. Yeah[cite: 3933]. Yeah[cite: 3934].
Clinical Trials and Technical Limitations
Naomi And then my last question is that, you know, now I'm interviewing you, but I I just am curious about your thoughts[cite: 3934]. You know, obviously, with all of this news about, you know, islet cell transplants and, talk of a cure and all of that, and I don't wanna be on the, I think a cure is around the corner if it's really not[cite: 3935]. Where do you fall on that spectrum[cite: 3936]? I mean, I'm hopeful and obviously a lot of the research out there and the clinical trials with the people that are off insulin now, you know, it's it's wonderful[cite: 3936]. But do you think that that is going to be something that's available to the masses, like, in our lifetime, around the corner[cite: 3937]? Forget about it[cite: 3938]. What are what are your thoughts about that[cite: 3938]?
Scott Benner Let me tell you a story that I think is gonna highlight how I feel about this[cite: 3939]. First, I'll tell you that, I think it's really great[cite: 3940]. I mean, it's fantastic[cite: 3940]. And I'm looking on my schedule right now to tell you that I believe where is it at[cite: 3941]? Maybe three weeks from now, I'm interviewing the lead researcher [cite: 3942] for that thing[cite: 3942].
Naomi Oh[cite: 3942].
Scott Benner For that thing[cite: 3942].
Naomi Doctor with Wittowski[cite: 3943]. Wittowski[cite: 3943]? Oh, oh, good[cite: 3943].
Scott Benner I already had Katie Hand on[cite: 3943].
Naomi Katie on[cite: 3944]. I listened to that one[cite: 3944]. Mhmm[cite: 3944].
Scott Benner And, I mean, exciting stuff about, you know, the that Tego [cite: 3945]
Naomi Tego Pruvart[cite: 3945].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 3945]. The immune suppressant drug and all that stuff[cite: 3946]. I think that's all very exciting[cite: 3946]. And I think for Katie and the other people, like, there's some guy, like, number eight or something like that online[cite: 3947]. He's like, hey[cite: 3948]. They just sent him back and gave him more cells, and I guess he's not using insulin[cite: 3948]. That is super exciting for him[cite: 3949]. Yeah[cite: 3949]. You you know[cite: 3949]? I also think you had to really listen to Katie when she said that she was lucky to be Part [cite: 3950]
Naomi of that trial[cite: 3950].
Scott Benner A viable candidate for that trial[cite: 3950]. So imagine how many people that said they wanted to be in it and they did some testing and went, sorry[cite: 3952]. It's not for you or at least at this time[cite: 3953]. Also, it's not FDA approved[cite: 3953]. It's not like it's I mean, it's it's they're, like, trying to it's a proof of concept at this point, and it seems Yeah[cite: 3954]. Very, very exciting[cite: 3955].
Scott Benner I agree with you[cite: 3955]. Having said that, I one day took out my recycling the way I had taken it out for years and years and years, and the truck went down the street and didn't take half of it[cite: 3956]. And I called the municipality, and I said, why in the hell did they just take some of my recycling and not all of it[cite: 3957]? We talked it through, and she said, oh, you still using that blue container[cite: 3957]? And I said, yes[cite: 3958]. She goes, we're not picking up the blue containers anymore[cite: 3959]. And I went, how was I supposed to know that[cite: 3960]?
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 3960].
Scott Benner And she says, it's on our website[cite: 3961]. And I laughed, and I said, you think I spend a lot of time on your website, do you[cite: 3961]? I said, you didn't send out a note[cite: 3962]? Call, text, email Right letter, anything[cite: 3962]? Yeah[cite: 3963]. No[cite: 3963]. We just don't do that anymore[cite: 3963]. And I said, I have to ask you[cite: 3963]. Why not[cite: 3964]? And she said, the cans are too heavy[cite: 3964]. And I said, can I ask you a question[cite: 3965]? Why won't you hire people who are strong enough to pick up the cans[cite: 3966]? Wouldn't that be weird if I hired doctors who didn't know anything about medicine or a recycling guy who can't pick up the cans[cite: 3967]? Like, I was like, what what what is going on here[cite: 3968]? Well and then she's arguing back and forth with me, and I I was like, look[cite: 3969]. I'm not trying to be difficult[cite: 3969]. I'm like, I paid $75 for that blue can[cite: 3970]. Are you gonna give me $75 back[cite: 3971]? No[cite: 3971]. But we'll give you other cans if you want[cite: 3971]. And I said, but those cans are smaller, and you only come for the recycling twice a month[cite: 3972].
Scott Benner How many little green cans am I supposed to strewn across my property[cite: 3973]? How much property do you think I have exactly[cite: 3974]? What am I in the can, you know, storage business[cite: 3974]? I'm like, what's going on here[cite: 3975]?
Naomi Don't you know I run a diabetes podcast[cite: 3976]? I'm busy[cite: 3976].
Scott Benner Time for you now[cite: 3976]. Also, the blue one held all my recycling[cite: 3977]. It was one nice can[cite: 3977]. Right[cite: 3977]? So I said, okay[cite: 3978]. I'll go dump it into the green can[cite: 3978]. Are you gonna come back and get it[cite: 3978]? She goes, no[cite: 3979]. I said, can I bring it to you[cite: 3980]? She says, no[cite: 3980]. I said, what do you want me to do with it for the next two weeks[cite: 3981]? And you know what she said[cite: 3982]? You can throw it in the trash[cite: 3982]. I said, well, then why in God's name am I recycling if I can throw it in And the you know what her answers were[cite: 3983]? Not helpful[cite: 3984]. And she was in charge[cite: 3984]. I'm gonna tell you that when institutions when this is how things work is my point Mhmm [cite: 3985, 3986] and you're telling me
Naomi Don't don't get your hopes up[cite: 3886].
Scott Benner Don't get your hopes up is my point[cite: 3987]. Yeah[cite: 3987]. Yeah[cite: 3987]. Yeah[cite: 3987]. Thank you[cite: 3987]. Okay[cite: 3988]. Okay[cite: 3988]. That thank you for taking my point out of that[cite: 3988]. I'll I'll tell you the same thing that I've been thinking for, like, fifteen years or more[cite: 3989]. I once interviewed a guy, a researcher working on I think it was Veritex back then[cite: 3990]. They were making this pouch of cells they were gonna implant under your skin, blah blah blah[cite: 3991]. Mhmm[cite: 3992]. And, it was really interesting[cite: 3992]. Certainly didn't seem as quickly successful as this one out of Chicago right now[cite: 3992]. But point was is they were having some success with it[cite: 3993]. And I asked him during the course of the interview, if you got it all together right now like I said, just say right now a bell went off and it works[cite: 3994]? Right[cite: 3995]? I said it works great[cite: 3995]. When do I get it[cite: 3995]? Mhmm[cite: 3995].
Scott Benner And then he started talking about, well, you know, we've gotta source the cells, and we've gotta you know, you gotta put infrastructure in place to build the pouches[cite: 3996]. And then there's gotta be training that's done with the doctors, and you have to find doctors that can do the procedure and, like, you know, and insurance, of course, you're gonna loop in, blah blah[cite: 3997]. And he pauses, and he goes, I don't know[cite: 3998]. Fifteen years[cite: 3998]? And I said, so even if you figured it out today and it worked for sure[cite: 3999]...
Naomi Yeah[cite: 3999].
Scott Benner You're saying fifteen years later, that's when I'll see it[cite: 4000]? And so my I think my point stands[cite: 4001]. I mean, you can see right now there's you know, I don't believe that the current law even allows for the cells to be I don't know[cite: 4001]. I'm I'm not even sure[cite: 4002]. But right now, there's legal issues with how, you know, how available the cells are gonna be, the islet cells are gonna be[cite: 4002].
Naomi Right[cite: 4003].
Scott Benner Even if you had a pile of them a mile high and 10 feet, you know, and 10 miles wide [cite: 4003]
Naomi Doesn't mean it's gonna get to the the people [cite: 4003]
Scott Benner that you're mean that how many doctors are gonna do the procedure[cite: 4003]. I'm like, I mean, there's a guy doing it right now[cite: 4004]. What's he gonna give them to what's he gonna put all 2,000,000 of you in line and do it[cite: 4005]? Like, right[cite: 4006]? Like, there's a, you know, a drug protocol afterwards where you have to go I think what did she say[cite: 4006]? She's getting a an infusion every twenty one days[cite: 4007]? Mhmm[cite: 4013]. Who's doing that[cite: 4007]? Who's paying for that[cite: 4008]? You're gonna go tell the the insurance company right now they're gonna pay for that[cite: 4008]?
Naomi And she's going flying to Chicago [cite: 4009]
Scott Benner Because they're only right now, they're only doing the infusions there[cite: 4009].
Naomi There[cite: 4010]. Right[cite: 4010].
Scott Benner My point is there are a lot of there are a lot of steps between now and then[cite: 4010]. Yeah[cite: 4011]. I also think things will change a lot between now and then[cite: 4011]. I mean Right[cite: 4011]. One of the things I would imagine and she mentioned is they'll probably try to find a way for you to give yourself the drug at home at some point[cite: 4012]. Right, instead of it being infused, or maybe they can send it to an but these are not things that happen quickly[cite: 4013]. Yeah[cite: 4014]. Right[cite: 4014]?
Social Media Traps vs. Real Community
Naomi It's hard to not be enthusiastic when all of this news is coming at you so quickly[cite: 4014]. But at the same time, I think it it like you said, you know, it's important to be realistic about [cite: 4014]
Scott Benner Here's where I'll complain[cite: 4015]. I think it's a bit I need my right word[cite: 4016]. I think it's a little unfortunate that the way social media works and the way that people keep their accounts active and popular is intersecting with this[cite: 4017]. Mhmm[cite: 4017]. Because this is all very exciting[cite: 4017]. You should know about it[cite: 4018]. It's amazing[cite: 4018]. It could very well end up being what ends up happening for people[cite: 4019]. But when you give it to people in TikToks and Mhmm [cite: 4020]
Scott Benner Instagram reels, it makes it feel like it's happening now[cite: 4021].
Naomi Tomorrow[cite: 4021].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4021]. Is not happening right now[cite: 4022].
Naomi Yeah[cite: 4022].
Scott Benner Right[cite: 4023]? And so my fear becomes is that people will go, well, I don't really have to bolus that one fifty because I'm gonna get [cite: 4023]
Naomi I'm gonna be cured [cite: 4023]
Scott Benner if I treat it[cite: 4023]. Jam islets cells [cite: 4024]
Naomi islets cells[cite: 4024].
Scott Benner In my liver, and then I'm gonna take in some juice[cite: 4024]. And then I'm gonna because they only heard, you know, the TikTok version of what's going on[cite: 4025].
Naomi Right[cite: 4025].
Scott Benner And also the people who are doing a good job of sharing their story, it also makes it feel like it's everybody[cite: 4026]. So for the same reason that they'll tell you social media is bad for young women, for exact example[cite: 4027]. Right[cite: 4028]? Like, nobody holds a camera in front of themselves when they're not looking great Mhmm [cite: 4028] and doesn't and they're not at the beach or in the best part of their day or whatever[cite: 4029]. And so what happens is young girls see that, and they think my life's not that exciting[cite: 4030]. I don't always look this good[cite: 4031]. Like, blah blah blah[cite: 4031]. Makes It people feel badly[cite: 4031]. I think that that same thing of having someone stand up and constantly telling you how well their trial is going makes it feel like, oh god[cite: 4032]. That's a thing that exists right now, and I don't have it[cite: 4033]. And I don't think that's I don't think it exists right now[cite: 4034]. It exists right now for those people [cite: 4034]
Naomi Mhmm[cite: 4034].
Scott Benner Which is awesome[cite: 4035].
Naomi And it's it's really a handful of people[cite: 4036]. It's like [cite: 4036]
Scott Benner I am certainly not down on it[cite: 4036]. I think it's awesome[cite: 3955]. I just think that if [cite: 3955]
Naomi step in the right direction, but it could be years before[cite: 4037].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4038]. Just keep in mind that my daughter's had diabetes for twenty years, and the Walgreens gave her the wrong test strips the other day[cite: 4038]. I've been getting them there[cite: 4039].
Naomi Never ends[cite: 4039].
Scott Benner Never ends[cite: 4039]. And you're and I'm telling you that there's an infrastructure in place that relies on people and money[cite: 4040]. Another thing[cite: 3755]! Right[cite: 3756]? 13 infusions over thirteen days[cite: 4042]. It could push off the the onset of your type one diabetes for a couple of years maybe if if you catch it in time[cite: 4042]. I've interviewed people who have done it[cite: 4043]. Right[cite: 4043]? Yeah[cite: 4043]. But they had to fly somewhere, put themselves in a hotel for thirteen days[cite: 4044]. Their insurance didn't wanna cover[cite: 4045]. They fought with insurance over and over and over again[cite: 4045]. While they were fighting with their insurance, they were losing the time they needed to get the thing[cite: 4046]. It almost didn't happen[cite: 4047]. Blah blah blah blah blah[cite: 4047]. I don't know what it actually cost in cash[cite: 4048]. I'm sure it's millions of dollars[cite: 4048]. Like, you know what I mean[cite: 4049]? Point being, like, there's not a, I don't know, a building full of Band Aids right now, and we're just trying to figure out how to get them to your house[cite: 4049]. Like, that's not what's happening right now[cite: 4050].
Naomi Yeah[cite: 4050].
Scott Benner Right[cite: 4050]? There's there's so many confusing steps that need to happen between the excitement you're seeing with these people, and I am genuinely excited by it, and you actually having access to it that I don't think my answer to your question is is that I don't think that it's time to get excited that it's coming[cite: 4051].
Naomi Okay[cite: 4052]. Yeah[cite: 4052]. Yeah[cite: 4052]. I think it's time [cite: 4052]
Naomi That's a good perspective[cite: 4110]. I mean, I'm really looking forward to listening to [cite: 4053]
Scott Benner Me too[cite: 4053].
Naomi Your interview with doctor Witowski and Yeah [cite: 4054] and see what he says about it[cite: 4054]. But yeah[cite: 4054]. I mean, I think that's people have been saying too, you know, oh, twenty years ago, they said a cure is right around the corner[cite: 4055]. Yeah[cite: 4056]. And I I'm like you[cite: 4056]. I mean, I'm I'm very excited by it, and, obviously, it is a step in the right direction[cite: 4056]. But I understand what you're saying about, you know, the process of getting from there to all type one diabetic diabetics no longer needing insulin[cite: 4057].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4058]. I mean, I saw a guy on Instagram, and, you know, he got it one time, and it it lowered his insulin needs but didn't stop them[cite: 4058]. And then they had to bring him back and give him more cells[cite: 4059]. They they that's part of the process, apparently[cite: 4060]. And so this is still in the testing phase[cite: 4060]. They're trying to figure out, you know, how much to give you to get the outcome you're looking for[cite: 4061]. Like, they don't know any of I'm gonna guess that guy's gonna tell you, like, look[cite: 4062]. I've got an idea, but, you know, I'm gonna have to do this 50, a 100 more times before I even have an answer[cite: 4063].
Naomi Yes[cite: 4064]. And is it is it worth it to just delay you're, you know, you're delaying the progression, but if you're still gonna get it and need insulin anyway, you know, insulin's not a bad thing[cite: 4064].
Scott Benner I don't know that any of us know where it's gonna end[cite: 4065]. So I'm excited to talk to him because I'm gonna ask him those questions[cite: 4066]. Okay[cite: 4066]. And I try I I and quite honestly, I I almost recorded with him, like, five months ago, and then there was a scheduling problem[cite: 4067]. So, like, it took this long to fix like, to to get back around it again[cite: 4068].
Naomi And Good[cite: 4068]. And now now is probably the better time to talk to him[cite: 4069].
Scott Benner Maybe[cite: 4069]. Yeah[cite: 4069]. And hopefully[cite: 4070]. And hopefully, listen[cite: 4070]. Hopefully, it's a great conversation[cite: 4070]. The guy comes back on every six months and gives you a little update about what's happening and gives you a feeling, but I'm gonna ask him[cite: 4071]. Maybe he'll tell me differently[cite: 4072]. Maybe he'll say no, Scott[cite: 4072]. Get real excited[cite: 4072]. Like, you know what I mean[cite: 4073]?
Scott Benner I don't know what he's gonna say[cite: 4073].
Naomi Well, I'll be list I'll be listening for sure[cite: 4074]. And Thank you[cite: 4074]. Also, please thank Jenny for me because she really taught me everything I needed to know about Omnipod use[cite: 4075].
Scott Benner Oh, you're welcome[cite: 4076]. I'll I'll let her know[cite: 4076].
Naomi Appreciate that[cite: 4076].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4077]. Yeah[cite: 4077]. I mean, would've it been nice if you would have ended saying how valuable the podcast was for you[cite: 4077]. But sure, Jenny[cite: 4078]. As well[cite: 4078]. No, Jenny[cite: 4078].
Naomi I mean, I think I did I think I did allude to that[cite: 4079].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4079]. I know[cite: 4079]. But this was the last thing people hear[cite: 4080]. You know what mean[cite: 4080]? And this is what sticks in their head[cite: 4081]. Scott doesn't think that the cure is coming, and Jenny's better[cite: 4081]. That's what they're gonna leave this with[cite: 4082].
Naomi Scott thinks there's no heal hope, [cite: 4082]
Scott Benner and Jenny's awesome[cite: 4082]. Scott's a hopeless and Jenny's awesome[cite: 4083]. I'm very hopeful about it, and Jenny is awesome[cite: 4083]. So...
Naomi Alright[cite: 4083]. That's great[cite: 4084].
Closing and Handout Resources
Scott Benner I appreciate you doing this with me[cite: 4084]. I really do[cite: 4084].
Naomi No[cite: 4085]. Thank you so much[cite: 4085]. And, you know, just really if if it weren't for Juice Box, you know, you can really pick and choose what's right for you in terms of what you need to listen to and what's relevant for you[cite: 4085]. And you've done so much in the die world of diabetes and education[cite: 4086]. So thank you[cite: 4086].
Scott Benner Naomi, you can't say it now[cite: 4087]. It feels like I bullied you into it[cite: 4087]. You know what mean[cite: 4088]?
Naomi I didn't even remember that you told me to[cite: 4088].
Scott Benner I appreciate it very much[cite: 4089]. I actually, did something recently[cite: 4089]. I had a hospital reached out to me and said, can you please make it easier to share the podcast for us[cite: 4090]? So we've been building like a website to like Oh[cite: 4091]. Like where they can kinda go and print from or or text an image of a list of things and stuff like that[cite: 4092].
Naomi Right[cite: 4093]. Right[cite: 4093].
Scott Benner I was like, okay[cite: 4093]. Like, I think I got it about where they want it[cite: 4094]. And so I went on to the Facebook group and I was like, hey[cite: 4095]. You know, if you're like a a health care professional who suggests the podcast, could you reach out because I need to, like, share this link with you and see what you think of it[cite: 4096]? And, like, a couple of dozen people reached out in twenty four hours and they were like, oh, I Yeah[cite: 4097]. I I was like, oh, it may I was like, oh, I'm glad this is helping people[cite: 4098]. You know[cite: 4099]? So, hopefully, we'll make it a little easier on the doctors so they can, and the educators because, apparently, they're sharing, like, things they're printing out or, you know [cite: 4099]
Naomi Right[cite: 4099]. Like a hand like an old school handout or something[cite: 4100]. Yeah[cite: 4100].
Scott Benner They're they're looking at me, and they're like, could you maybe, you know, make this easier for us, please[cite: 4101]?
Naomi And, you know, a lot of people some people get their inform you know, people get their information in different ways[cite: 4102]. So for the people that like to listen and are, you know, out and about all the time and have a have earbuds in, you know, it's it's so helpful[cite: 4103]. And the Omnipod one, for sure, and, like, bold beginnings[cite: 4104]. I mean, at the beginning, I really did listen to those over and over again[cite: 4104].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4105].
Naomi Because you you pick things up the second time that you missed the first time or you need it reinforced[cite: 4106]. You know[cite: 4107]? And so [cite: 4107]
Scott Benner I agree[cite: 4107]. I I I think it it's a thing that people do end up going over a number of times when they're trying to teach themselves[cite: 4107].
Naomi And it's the one thing[cite: 4108]. When when you're diagnosed as a type one diabetic, you're not specifically told this is a disease where you will have to educate yourself and do deep dives yourself[cite: 4108]. Yeah[cite: 4109]. You know, I almost wish I had been told that from the beginning so it wouldn't have been such a shock[cite: 4109]. You know[cite: 4110]?
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4110]. No[cite: 4110]. I hear you because it really does feel like what I really took from what you said earlier was that, like, even though you're focused on it and you're a bright person, you're trying to learn and everything, like, there is still that, like there's there's a an insecurity in your mind[cite: 4110]. Like, am I doing the right thing[cite: 4111]? Is this Right[cite: 4111]. Am I doing too much[cite: 4111]?
Naomi Feels like a guessing game[cite: 4112].
Scott Benner Yeah[cite: 4112]. Yeah[cite: 4113]. Yeah[cite: 4113]. Yeah[cite: 4113]. I I that wasn't lost to me that you said that[cite: 4113]. I thought that was really interesting[cite: 4113]. So, anyway, thank you again for doing this[cite: 4114]. Hold on one second for me[cite: 4114]. Okay[cite: 4114]?
Naomi Okay[cite: 4114].
Scott Benner A huge thanks to my longest sponsor, Omnipod[cite: 4115]. Check out the Omnipod five now with my link, omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 4116]. You may be eligible for a free starter kit, a free Omnipod five starter kit at my link[cite: 4117]. Go check it out[cite: 4118]. Omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 4118]. Terms and conditions apply[cite: 4118]. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox[cite: 4119]. A huge thanks to US Med for sponsoring this episode of the juice box podcast[cite: 4120]. Don't forget, usmed.com/juicebox[cite: 4120]. This is where we get our diabetes supplies from[cite: 4121]. You can as well[cite: 4121]. Use the link or call (888) 721-1514[cite: 3279, 4122]. Use the link or call the number, get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from US Med[cite: 4122].
Scott Benner Hey, kids[cite: 4123]. Listen up[cite: 4123]. You've made it to the end of the podcast[cite: 4123]. You must have enjoyed it[cite: 4124]. You know what else you might enjoy[cite: 4124]? The private Facebook group for the juice box podcast[cite: 4125]. I know you're thinking, Facebook, Scott, please[cite: 4125]. But no[cite: 4126]. Beautiful group, wonderful people, a fantastic community[cite: 4126]. Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook[cite: 4126]. Of course, if you have type two, are you touched by diabetes in any way, you're absolutely welcome[cite: 4127]. It's a private group, you'll have to answer a couple of questions before you come in[cite: 4128]. We'll make you're not a bot or an evil doer, then you're on your way[cite: 4128]. You'll be part of the family[cite: 4129]. I can't thank you enough for listening[cite: 4129]. Please make sure you're subscribed or following in your audio app[cite: 4130]. I'll be back tomorrow with another episode of the Juice Box podcast[cite: 4131]. Have a podcast[cite: 4131]? Want it to sound fantastic[cite: 4131]? Wrongwayrecording.com[cite: 4132].
#1856 Beverly Hills Braun
Fifty-year type 1 veteran and health psychologist Dr. Beth Braun discusses managing diabetes burnout, overcoming food shame, and the clinical impact support groups have on lowering A1C.
Key Takeaways
- A Half-Century of Evolution: Dr. Beth Braun shares her powerful narrative of celebrating 50 years with Type 1 diabetes, highlighting the massive evolutionary leap from once-daily animal insulin injections and urine testing to modern automated delivery systems[cite: 2624, 2639, 2644, 2800].
- Remission Through Specialized Care: Beth candidly details her battle with severe diabetes burnout, retinopathy, and gastroparesis symptoms in her late twenties and thirties, demonstrating how switching to a compassionate care provider and tightening tracking frameworks put her complications into long-term control[cite: 2721, 2723, 2726, 2835].
- Unpacking Disordered Eating: As a licensed health psychologist, Dr. Braun shares that 30% to 40% of people living with Type 1 diabetes experience disordered eating or profound food shame due to historical rigid dietary restrictions, advocating heavily for shifting therapeutic vocabulary from judgmental "test results" to objective "functional data"[cite: 2974, 2980, 2981].
- The Clinical Value of Support Groups: The conversation highlights foundational clinical research showing a documented drop in A1C levels when individuals join peer support groups, illustrating that breaking isolation acts as a functional tool for diabetes health[cite: 3152, 3153, 3158].
- Physiological Echoes of Stress: Both Scott and Beth track how emotional and psychological stress manifests visually on continuous glucose monitors—with blood sugars climbing significantly during high-stakes presentations or school meetings due to involuntary hormonal and adrenaline changes[cite: 3003, 3008, 3016].
Resources Mentioned
- US Med Diabetes Supplies Fulfillment [cite: 2615]
- Tandem Mobi Pump & Control IQ Plus Technology [cite: 2619]
- Eversense 365 Long-Term Wear CGM System [cite: 2619]
- Breakthrough T1D (Formerly JDRF/JDF) [cite: 2658, 2659]
- Juicebox Docs Doctor Directory [cite: 3030]
- Dr. Beth Braun Professional Website [cite: 3213]
- Dr. Beth Braun Instagram (@DuinDiabetes) [cite: 3214]
- Wrong Way Recording Podcast Editing Services [cite: 3257, 3261]
Introduction and Sponsor Spotlight
Scott Benner Friends, we're all back together for the next episode of the Juice Box podcast. Welcome. [cite: 2602]
Beth Hello, everyone. I am doctor Beth Braun. I am a health psychologist, psychologist, and I specialize in type one and type two diabetes. [cite: 2603]
Scott Benner If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box podcast private Facebook group, Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. [cite: 2604] But everybody is welcome. Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. [cite: 2605] If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. [cite: 2606] My grand rounds series was designed by listeners to tell doctors what they need, and it also helps you to understand what to ask for. [cite: 2607]
Scott Benner There's a mental wellness series that addresses the emotional side of diabetes and practical ways to stay balanced. [cite: 2608] And when we talk about GLP medications, well, we'll break down what they are, how they may help you, and if they fit into your diabetes management plan. [cite: 2609] What do these three things have in common? They're all available at juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu. [cite: 2610] I know it can be hard to find these things in a podcast app, so we've collected them all for you at juiceboxpodcast.com. [cite: 2611]
Scott Benner Nothing you hear on the juice box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. [cite: 2612] Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. [cite: 2613] US Med is sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast, and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from US Med for years. [cite: 2614] You can as well. Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. [cite: 2615]
Scott Benner Use the link or the number, get your free benefits check, and get started today with US Med. [cite: 2616] Today's episode is also sponsored by the Tandem MOBI system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. [cite: 2617] Tandem MOBI has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. [cite: 2618] Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. [cite: 2619] The podcast is also sponsored today by the Eversense three sixty five, the one year wear CGM. [cite: 2619]
Scott Benner That's one insertion a year. That's it. And here's a little bonus for you. [cite: 2620] How about there's no limit on how many friends and family you can share your data with with the Eversense Now app? [cite: 2621] No limits. [cite: 2622] Settle in. Eversense.
Fifty Years with Type 1 Diabetes
Beth Hello, everyone. I am doctor Beth Braun. [cite: 2622] I am a health psychologist, and I specialize in type one and type two diabetes. [cite: 2623] And I will be celebrating my fiftieth diiversary next month. [cite: 2624]
Scott Benner No kidding, Beth. [cite: 2624] Can I ask how old you are? [cite: 2625]
Beth Well, in my mind, I'm 36, but, obviously, I was diagnosed when I was five, so do the math. [cite: 2625]
Scott Benner Okay. Well, you and I are just about the same age, and I'll be 55 this summer. [cite: 2626] Mhmm. Were you born in [cite: 2627]
Beth Happy birthday.
Scott Benner Thank you. Born in '70? [cite: 2627]
Beth Yes, sir. [cite: 2628]
Scott Benner Look at you. Okay. So diagnosed at five. [cite: 2628] I mean, let's talk about that for a second. That's pretty interesting. [cite: 2629] So fifty years ago, diagnosed with type one diabetes meant what for your upbringing? [cite: 2630] Like, what did your parents do? [cite: 2631]
Beth Okay. You remind me in a way of my mom, and it must be the East Coast go getter. [cite: 331] I'm gonna do anything for my kid. [cite: 2632] I first of all, we figured out I was diabetic at Great Adventure at Exit 7 A or whatever it is. [cite: 2632]
Scott Benner No kidding.
Beth No. I swear I couldn't go five minutes without a drink, and they kept giving me fruit juice. [cite: 2633] Go figure. [cite: 2634]
Scott Benner So you went from the super duper double looper to diabetes? [cite: 2634]
Beth Yeah. [cite: 2634] And it was spring break. [cite: 2635] I remember because I was eating jelly beans and so on, and I was in kindergarten. [cite: 2635] And the next thing I know, my mom brings me to the doctor, and he tells her you're being a neurotic Jewish mother. [cite: 2636] And she goes, I'm not. [cite: 2637] This is not my child.
Scott Benner Something's wrong. [cite: 2637]
Beth Something is very wrong. [cite: 2638] And so they did a blood or they did a urine test back then. [cite: 2638] And for the first, I would say, five, eight years, I did urine tests. [cite: 2639] And at six years old, they shipped me off to Camp Firefly. [cite: 2640] I was the youngest camper. [cite: 2640] Uh-huh. And that it was all to gain independence. [cite: 2641] It was all to have a way of life. [cite: 2642]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2642] Well, what but what was your management like? [cite: 2643] Were you shooting, like, once or twice a day? [cite: 2643] Was that it? [cite: 2644]
Beth Oh, once a day when I started and one shot of NPH. [cite: 2644]
Scott Benner Mhmm. [cite: 2644] Okay. Jeez. All this is shocking to me, but the most shocking thing is I didn't know Jewish kids got jelly beans. [cite: 2645] I thought that was specifically for Easter. [cite: 2645] Am I out of my mind, maybe? [cite: 2646]
Beth Well, you know, we were we we tie dyed eggs and you know? [cite: 2646] Look at you. [cite: 2647]
Scott Benner Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. [cite: 2648] It suddenly made me think, oh, are there people out there who are not getting jelly beans? [cite: 2649]
Beth No. I did until '75. [cite: 2650] You know? That was it. [cite: 2650] That was the last year of beans. [cite: 2651]
Scott Benner Your mom's like, we're gonna save a ton of money on these jelly beans now. [cite: 2651] Well, how long while sending you to camp at six, Would you have been sent to camp a different kind of camp if you were six and not having diabetes, do you think? [cite: 2652] Or is your, like, family, like, a camp family? [cite: 2653]
Beth We were a camp family, but, yes, every summer in the Poconos and things like that, but not till we were a little older. [cite: 2654] Yes. And I went to day camp. So I came home from Camp Firefly and went off to day camp. [cite: 2655]
Scott Benner Have you, ever I mean, I'm imagining your mom's not with us anymore. Am I right? [cite: 2656]
Beth Right. [cite: 2656]
Scott Benner Okay. So did you ever talk about that time in your life with her as an adult? [cite: 2657]
Beth Well, she went on we lived next door down the street from Lee Dukat who founded at the time JDF, which is now breakthrough t one d, and connected with her. [cite: 2658] She officially made me poster child of the Philadelphia JDF, and my mom worked her way up to president and then worked her way through international JDF. [cite: 2659] And in her memory, I travel all over the West Coast doing breakthrough t one d mental health talks. [cite: 2660]
Scott Benner Oh, how nice.
Beth Thank you. Yes. But she at the time, she wasn't working. [cite: 2661] She was a career mom Mhmm. [cite: 2662] and just happened to catch this while she was in between jobs. [cite: 2662]
Scott Benner How many brothers and sisters do you have?
Beth I have a brother who's four years younger. [cite: 2663]
Scott Benner Okay. Just the two of you then.
Beth Just the two of us. [cite: 2664] And within a month or two of me getting type one diabetes, he got asthma. [cite: 2665]
Scott Benner Oh. [cite: 2665] Mhmm. Are there any autoimmune issues that run through the family? [cite: 2666] People have celiac or thyroid or anything like that? [cite: 2667]
Beth All the women in my family have thyroid issues. [cite: 2667]
Scott Benner Okay.
Beth But, now I look around the holidays, and I'm like, oh, so I'm the lucky winner. [cite: 2668]
Scott Benner You got that one. Do you have other autoimmune yourself or just the type one? [cite: 2669]
Beth Oh, god. Yes. I do. Rheumatoid arthritis and hypothyroidism. [cite: 2670] So yes. [cite: 2670]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2670] How's the RA impact your life day to day?
Beth It doesn't, honestly. [cite: 2671] There are days I'll have a flare. [cite: 2671] Maybe after, you know, a wild weekend, things will hurt. [cite: 2672] There are times things hurt quite a bit when I'm under a bit of stress. [cite: 2673]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2673] Beth, what's a wild weekend look like when you're 55? [cite: 2674]
Beth Well, for example, I'm speaking in Las Vegas this weekend at the breakthrough t one d. [cite: 2674]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2675] So travel and eating in restaurants and and running around, not sleeping, stuff like that? [cite: 2676]
Beth Things like that or the ADA conference, but this weekend is also March madness. [cite: 2677] So once I finish speaking, I'll be watching a lot of basketball. [cite: 2678]
Scott Benner Oh, in a bar or by yourself somewhere?
Beth In the sports book. [cite: 2678]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2679] In the sports book. Oh, oh, yeah. You're gonna be in Vegas. [cite: 2680]
Beth I'll be in Vegas. [cite: 2680]
Scott Benner You know? [cite: 2681] You know, I've never been to Vegas, but my brothers and I, we just made plans to go see a concert there next year together. [cite: 2681]
Beth I hope it's at The Sphere. [cite: 2681]
Scott Benner It is. Yeah. [cite: 2682] We're gonna go to The Sphere and see a concert. [cite: 2683] Alright. [cite: 2683] Oddly enough, I I messaged my brothers. [cite: 2684]
Scott Benner I don't know how you grew up. [cite: 2684] We grew up really broke. [cite: 2685] And I was like, look. [cite: 2685] We should I said, we're I'm in my mid fifties. [cite: 2686] Brian's, you know, 50. [cite: 2687] My other brother is, you know, in his mid forties. [cite: 2688] And I'm like, we've never done anything like this before. [cite: 2688] We're really close, but we'd never do stuff like this. [cite: 2689] I was like, let's just do it. [cite: 2689] And so we worked it out, and I I I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. [cite: 2690]
Navigating Burnout and Complications
Scott Benner Nevertheless. Okay. So the RA only pops up if you exert yourself too much, that kind of stuff. [cite: 2691] Going back to when you were a kid doing the one shot a a day Mhmm. [cite: 2692] When does it change for you? [cite: 2693] Like, at what age do you remember your care modernizing, and how many times do you think it's modernized again over those fifty years? [cite: 2693]
Beth Good question. [cite: 2693] So the first modern technology I got was in middle school, my first blood tester. [cite: 2694] But the thing was huge. [cite: 2694] Absolutely huge. [cite: 2695] Mhmm. I couldn't carry it to school, and the fingerprints hurt so badly. [cite: 2696] I was also taking guitar lessons at the time, and I had to give that up because it hurt too much to do both. [cite: 2697]
Scott Benner Yeah. Okay. [cite: 2697]
Beth But we tested twice a day, and you had an idea of where things were. [cite: 2698]
Scott Benner Did you adjust off of those tests, or were they just sort of I don't know. [cite: 2699] Were they just sort of, like, oh, I it's what my blood sugar is, and then keep going. [cite: 2700] Was there something to do with that information? [cite: 2701]
Beth Well, you didn't have a sliding scale back then. [cite: 2701] You might have given a little more regular, but you weren't working off of a sliding scale. [cite: 2702] We weren't counting carbs back then. [cite: 2703]
Scott Benner No. No. No. No. Yeah. [cite: 2703] But but did it did the test make you think, okay. [cite: 2704] Well, do a little extra at dinner or tomorrow or something like that or less or more? [cite: 2705]
Beth A little bit, but you didn't go off the numbers the doctor gave you. [cite: 2706]
Scott Benner So everything was feel and vibe? [cite: 2707] Like, the doctor start started you somewhere, and then you kind of adjusted off of that? [cite: 2707]
Beth Exactly. Exactly. [cite: 2708]
Scott Benner At what age do you get do you get off of that standard and end up with, like, a short acting and a long acting? [cite: 2708]
Beth It started adjusting after college. [cite: 2709]
Scott Benner Okay. So in your twenties? [cite: 2709] Mhmm. Okay.
Beth Yes. [cite: 2709] Where you're doing I mean, I was giving more injections during college. [cite: 2710] Maybe I was up to four a day. [cite: 2711] But then after college, when I went to graduate school, I was definitely starting to count carbs [cite: 2711]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2711]
Beth Which was huge. [cite: 2711] I grew up. You don't need sugar. [cite: 2712]
Scott Benner Okay. Yeah. [cite: 2712] That was just that that was over after you were diagnosed? [cite: 2713]
Beth You don't eat sugar [cite: 2713]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2713] Unless you're low. [cite: 2714] Wait. Wait. Help me on the calendar. After college is what? [cite: 2714] Mid nineties for you? [cite: 2715]
Beth Yeah. Early nineties. [cite: 2715]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2715]
Beth And the doctors are like, this is how you count carbs. [cite: 2716] I thought he was crazy. [cite: 2716]
Scott Benner Really? [cite: 2716] Do you remember why it seems so out of bounds, the suggestion? [cite: 2717]
Beth I learned it one way. [cite: 2718] And why what do you mean I shouldn't eat pasta and bagels? [cite: 2718] I eat a bagel every day. [cite: 2719]
Scott Benner No sugar, though. Don't worry.
Beth No sugar. [cite: 2719] It it was I mean, you were watching things change in front of your eyes. [cite: 2720] And then when I turned 30, I I ran into some pretty bad diabetes burnout. [cite: 2721] I hate admitting that to the world. [cite: 2722] But I had these doctors that were really challenging me and judging me and telling me what a bad diabetic I was, and my parents left me to do diabetes on my own, basically [cite: 2722] Mhmm. until I turned 30, and I started getting gastroparesis symptoms. [cite: 2723] And my mom being the advocate that she was got me in with the world's greatest doctor, Ann Peters. [cite: 2724] And getting into her hands spoke to me like a person with diabetes. [cite: 2725] Instead of a bad diabetic, she got me on a pump, and she gave me the motivation to take care of myself. [cite: 2726] We're the first CGM from Medtronic. [cite: 2727]
Scott Benner What do you think your outcomes were like in those first decades there? [cite: 2727] Like, a one c's, do you know where they were? [cite: 2728] Do you have any context for [cite: 2728]
Beth No idea. [cite: 2728]
Scott Benner No idea. [cite: 2729] It wasn't a focus of care back then for you? [cite: 2729]
Beth No. No. [cite: 2730] And what was the focus? [cite: 2730]
Scott Benner Are you taking your shots? Are you testing? [cite: 2730] That's it. Right? [cite: 2731]
Beth Are you testing? Are you taking your insulin? [cite: 2731]
Scott Benner And you're standing up and talking, so you must be okay. [cite: 2732]
Beth I have all my fingers in I mean, it's a miracle I'm here, really. [cite: 2733]
Scott Benner I mean, in your opinion, is that just because that's how it was, or do you think you were getting substandard care? [cite: 2734] You've probably heard me talk about US Med and how simple it is to reorder with US Med using their email system. [cite: 2735] But did you know that if you don't see the email and you're set up for this, you have to set it up. [cite: 2736] They don't just randomly call you, but I'm set up to be called if I don't respond to the email because I don't trust myself, a 100%. [cite: 2737] So one time, I didn't respond to the email and the phone rings at the house. [cite: 2738] It's like, ring, you know how it works. [cite: 2739] And I picked it up. Was like, hello? [cite: 2739] And it was just the recording. It was like, US med, doesn't actually sound like that, but you know what I'm saying. [cite: 2740]
Scott Benner It said, hey, you're, I don't remember exactly what it says, but it's basically like, hey, your order's ready. [cite: 2741] You want us to send it? [cite: 2742] Push this button if you want us to send it. [cite: 2742] Or if you'd like to wait, I think it it lets you put it off, like, a couple of weeks or push this button for that. [cite: 2743] That's pretty much it. [cite: 2744] I push the button to send it, and a few days later, box right at my door. [cite: 2744] That's it. [cite: 2745] Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. [cite: 2745] Get your free benefits checked now and get started with USmed. [cite: 2745] Dexcom, Omnipod, Tandem, Freestyle, they've got all your favorites. [cite: 2746] Even that new islet pump. [cite: 2746] Check them out now at US Med dot com slash Juice Box or by calling (888) 721-1514. [cite: 2747] There are links in the show notes of your pocket player and links at juiceboxpodcast.com to US Med and to all of the sponsors. [cite: 2748] Today's episode is sponsored by a long term CGM. [cite: 2749] It's going to help you to stay on top of your glucose readings, the Eversense three sixty five. [cite: 2750]
Scott Benner I'm talking, of course, about the world's first and only CGM that lasts for one year. [cite: 2751] One year, one CGM. [cite: 2752] Are you tired of those other CGMs? [cite: 2752] The ones that give you all those problems that you didn't expect? [cite: 2753] Knocking them off, false alerts, not lasting as long as they're supposed to. [cite: 2754] If you're tired of those constant frustrations, use my link, ever since cgm.com/juicebox, to learn more about the Eversense three sixty five. [cite: 2755] Some of you may be able to experience the Eversense three sixty five for as low as a $199 for a full year. [cite: 2756] At my link, you'll find those details and can learn about eligibility. [cite: 2757] Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. [cite: 2757] Check it out. [cite: 2758]
Beth I don't I don't think I was getting substandard care. [cite: 2758] I think we didn't have the ability to get as much information as we do now. [cite: 2759] There was no Google. [cite: 2760] There was no ChatGBT, things like that. [cite: 2760]
Scott Benner Mhmm. [cite: 2760]
Beth So the only time you got information was when you went to the once a year JDF update, or you saw an article in the paper, or when you went to your doctor every couple of months. [cite: 2761]
Scott Benner Yeah. I see. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. There's just nowhere to pivot from. [cite: 2762] I mean, there used to be what die was it Diabetes Forecast magazine or something like that? [cite: 2763]
Beth Right? [cite: 2763] I would get pen pals out of Diabetes Forecast magazine, and my dad would read it diligently. [cite: 2764] And since 1976, I would hear, oh, we're so close to a cure. [cite: 2765] We're so close to a cure. [cite: 2765] I waited and waited for a cure. [cite: 2766] And now in the last two, three years for the first time in my life, I believe there is a cure coming. [cite: 2767]
Scott Benner Something's out there. Right? [cite: 2768] You know, I don't know if it's a I mean, maybe it's a functional cure or or something, but I just interviewed somebody doing that the trial out of Chicago. [cite: 2768] Mhmm. I guess I'm getting ready in a week or so. [cite: 2769] In about a week, I'll be interviewing the guy running that trial. [cite: 2770] Mhmm. So yeah. I mean, that stuff's exciting, but it didn't help you in 1982 for sure. [cite: 2771] So what did? [cite: 2771] Like, how come I mean, you said you you had the onset of gastroparesis. [cite: 2772] It sounds like you might have been able to were you able to rectify that or slow it down? [cite: 2773] What did you do? [cite: 2774] Did it go away is what I'm asking you? [cite: 2774]
Beth Did it go away? [cite: 2774]
Scott Benner You know what I mean? [cite: 2775] Like, is it impacting your days? [cite: 2775]
Beth It was greatly impacting my days at the time I was just finishing my PhD. [cite: 2776] Mhmm. I was in dire pain. [cite: 2777] I was bent over in pain. [cite: 2777] My diabetes doctor compared it to stomach cancer pain, And I traveled around going to different doctors, and then I was living in LA at the time. [cite: 2778] Lo and behold, the man with the cure was right at my hospital, Cedars Sinai. [cite: 2779] And once I got to him, Mark Pimentel, he was able to cure me. [cite: 2780]
Beth And it comes back every now and then. [cite: 2781] I have a flare, but it is pretty in control now. [cite: 2781]
Scott Benner What was the thing that they did for you? [cite: 2782]
Beth I take an antibiotic daily, rifaximin, and he also got my motivated me to be even tighter in my diabetes control. [cite: 2783]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2783]
Beth and he changed my diet greatly. [cite: 2784]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2784] Yeah. So changing your diet Mhmm. [cite: 2785] Getting things better. [cite: 2785] But do we have context for what a betterment is? [cite: 2785] Like, you back then, do you know what your a one c was? [cite: 2786]
Beth Back then, I would say I was in the high sevens, but then brought it brought it down with Anne to about a seven. [cite: 2787]
Scott Benner You think the gastroparesis is from a high sevens a one c, or do you think that you were experiencing much more variability than that? [cite: 2788] Lots of high highs. [cite: 2789] Like, was that seven come to by a bunch of highs offset by a bunch of lows? [cite: 2789]
Beth Oh, it was thirty twenty five years of being out of control. [cite: 2790]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2790] So you were bouncing constantly? [cite: 2791]
Beth Well, a, we didn't have technology like we do. [cite: 2791] You could you had to prick your finger to know where you were. [cite: 2792] Yeah. We didn't have these fast acting insulins, but it was long term diabetes at that point. [cite: 2793] Longer term with the lack of technology. [cite: 2794]
Scott Benner How many times in a course of a day or a week or however you wanna measure it do you think you were low and had to do something about it with food or carbs? [cite: 2794]
Beth Back then or now? [cite: 2795]
Scott Benner Back then.
Beth Oh, at least two, three times a week. [cite: 2795]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2796] Two or three times a week, you were in a situation where you're like, oh, I'm low. [cite: 2796] I'm in trouble. [cite: 2797]
Beth Right. [cite: 2797]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2797] I understand you didn't have the measurement tools back then. [cite: 2797] But hindsight, do you think your blood sugar was frequently over two fifty? [cite: 2798] Let's talk about the Tandem Mobi insulin pump from today's sponsor, Tandem Diabetes Care. [cite: 2799] Their newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology and the new Tandem Mobi pump offer you unique opportunities to have better control. [cite: 2800] I'm talking, of course, about the world's first and only CGM that lasts for one year. [cite: 2800]
Scott Benner It's the only system with auto bolus that helps with missed meals and preventing hyperglycemia, the only system with a dedicated sleep setting, and the only system with off or on body wear options. [cite: 2801] Tandem Mobi gives you more discretion, freedom, and options for how to manage your diabetes. [cite: 2802] This is their best algorithm ever, and they'd like you to check it out at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. [cite: 2803] When you get to my link, you're going to see integrations with Dexcom sensors and a ton of other information that's gonna help you learn about Tandem's tiny pump that's big on control. [cite: 2804] Tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. [cite: 2805] The Tandem Mobi system is available for people ages two and up who want an automated delivery system to help them sleep better, wake up in range, and address high blood sugars with auto bolus. [cite: 2805]
Beth Not frequently, but enough. [cite: 2806]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2806] And that was mainly being controlled by no sugar. [cite: 2806] How are you dealing with all the bread and everything? [cite: 2807] Like, I guess you don't know. [cite: 2807] Isn't it interesting now? [cite: 2808] Because you have now you have all the context for for these measurement ideas that we have now. [cite: 2808] Mhmm. and asking questions in reverse, you don't know the answer to them any better than I do. [cite: 2809] Like, you you just you don't I don't know. [cite: 2810] I was staying alive. [cite: 2810]
Scott Benner I did the things they told me to do. [cite: 2811] I didn't need sugar because that seemed to make sense, and then I moved up when technology moved. [cite: 2812]
Beth Exactly. [cite: 2813]
Scott Benner That's all you really could do. [cite: 2813] And then you feel, I would imagine, lucky to be where you are right now with your health. [cite: 2814]
Beth Well, part of it was my motivation changed. [cite: 2815] Suddenly, I was called doctor Beth Braun, which to me was so meaningful. [cite: 2815] And I started working in an office at Cedars with a pediatric endocrinologist. [cite: 2816] And she's referring me clients, and I'm helping kids with type one and type two diabetes. [cite: 2817] But how could I expect people to practice what I preach if I'm not practicing it? [cite: 2818]
Scott Benner I gotcha. [cite: 2819] You almost had to, like, at least live up to the the line you were drawing for them. [cite: 2819]
Beth Absolutely. [cite: 2820] Yeah. [cite: 2820] and then I started becoming much more educated in diabetes. [cite: 2820] And I think I they say the brain doesn't mature till you're 25 or fully stop growing, and I think that was part of it for me. [cite: 2821]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2822]
Beth At 25, I grew up. [cite: 2822] And at 30, I was handling patients. [cite: 2822] My first job as a therapist at Beverly Hills High, I was 26 years old. [cite: 2823] I had to grow up. [cite: 2824]
Scott Benner I wonder if it would surprise you to know how many people over the age of 25 into their thirties tell that same hindsight story. [cite: 2824]
Beth Isn't that interesting? [cite: 2825]
Scott Benner It's it's incredibly common when I talk to people all the time just like, I don't know what happened. [cite: 2401] I just I reached a spot and I decided, or it seemed different to me all of a sudden. [cite: 2826] The other thing I hear very frequently from people is for the love of another thing. [cite: 2827] So Mhmm. I met a woman who cared about me, and I wanted to get married. [cite: 2828] So I started taking better care of myself. [cite: 2829] I had a kid. [cite: 2829] My kid got diabetes. [cite: 2829] I decided I had to be a good role model. [cite: 2830] Like, there's a lot of those stories that come out in course of conversations. [cite: 2831]
Beth Yes. [cite: 2831] And I think working under this woman who was always helping me find better ways to take care of myself. [cite: 2832] Mhmm. I really admired my boss at the time. [cite: 2833] So it was great to go to conferences with her, and I was learning and learning. [cite: 2834] And then at 28, I got my first complication before the gastroparesis [cite: 2835]
Scott Benner Which was
Beth which was retinopathy. [cite: 2835]
Scott Benner Oh, no. [cite: 2836] Did you have to get the injections? [cite: 2836]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 2836] No. They did laser back then. [cite: 2837]
Scott Benner Oh, okay.
Beth Uh-huh. And that totally straightened me out. [cite: 2837] Anything that I wasn't doing. [cite: 2838]
Scott Benner Wait. It straightened you out because it fixed your eyes or straightened you out because you thought, I don't need any more laser shot into my eyes? [cite: 2838]
Beth Both. [cite: 2839]
Scott Benner Oh, okay. [cite: 2839] You're like, well, if this is the fix, I'm gonna try to get ahead of this a little bit. [cite: 2839] So then if that happened, would you say that you previously to that had the knowledge to do better for yourself and just weren't? [cite: 2840] And then the confluence of all the things that you went through in your life and your perspective shifts, that's what got you to put those things into motion? [cite: 2841]
Beth I think in high school, I wouldn't tell anyone. [cite: 2842] I was moving around, going to different high schools. [cite: 2842] I end up at Beverly Hills High as a kid. [cite: 2843] I'm not hi, Beth. [cite: 2843] I'm the diabetic kid. [cite: 2844] I just wanted to be a popular kid. [cite: 2844] So I was embarrassed back then. [cite: 2845] In college, I had friends that knew that I could trust. [cite: 2845] But I was partying. [cite: 2846] I was carrying on. [cite: 2846] I was going to games. [cite: 2846] And then I learned because I was taking I studied behavioral health, and I was taking anatomy classes and behavioral modification classes and started experimenting on myself. [cite: 2847]
Scott Benner Oh, hold on a second. [cite: 2848] I wanna hear about that. [cite: 2848] But first, carrying on, does what does that mean? [cite: 2849] Alcohol, drugs, sex? [cite: 2849] What what do you what what does carrying on mean? [cite: 2850]
Beth I mean, I'm at University of Arizona. [cite: 2850] We're going to clubs at 18 years old and things like that. [cite: 2851] Not sleeping well, not who takes care of themself in college? [cite: 2852]
Scott Benner Yeah. I I don't know. [cite: 2852] I didn't didn't want to go to college. [cite: 2853]
Beth Okay.
Scott Benner But they were people were like, who's gonna pay for that? [cite: 2854] I went, oh. [cite: 2855]
Beth Right. [cite: 2855]
Scott Benner Okay. So you were just you were doing the college thing. [cite: 2855]
Beth I was doing I was being a college kid. [cite: 2856] Okay. [cite: 2857] I mean, I wasn't in excessive drug use or like, I didn't have an alcohol problem, but I was certainly at parties. [cite: 2857]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2858] So there was drinking and some some what do we call it? [cite: 2858] Like, drugs, weed? [cite: 2858] What are we talking about, Beth? [cite: 2859]
Beth I I Middle [cite: 2859]
Scott Benner of the eighties. Some cocaine, Beth? [cite: 2859] What are you trying to say here? [cite: 2860] No. No. [cite: 2861] No. Never. [cite: 2861] Never. Never. [cite: 2862]
Scott Benner I like that you're not gonna say what it is, but if I say something too much, you'd be like, no. [cite: 2861] That's a no. [cite: 2862] That's a hard no. [cite: 2862]
Beth No. [cite: 2863] I I ex it was the time to experiment. [cite: 2863]
Scott Benner No. I hear you. [cite: 2863]
Beth But I also knew back then that I was scared to try things because I was aware of diabetes. [cite: 2864]
Scott Benner I just had a girl on the other day. [cite: 2865] She was, like, 28, and she said, I don't drink because she's like, I don't need whatever problem that's gonna bring. [cite: 2866]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 2867] Mhmm.
Scott Benner And but she was talking about her diabetes when when she was mentioning it. [cite: 2867]
The Psychology of T1D and Food Shame
Scott Benner Okay. Alright. So you started so you learned stuff in school. [cite: 2868] Tell people what you do. [cite: 2868] Like, what is your you said you have a PhD? [cite: 2869] Yes. [cite: 2869] What education were you getting in between them in between the dancing and the clubbing? [cite: 2870] What what education were you getting back then? [cite: 2871]
Beth You know, I'm gonna give a huge shout out to University of Arizona because I was in the psychology program, and I loved what I was learning. [cite: 2871] I loved learning about sleep psychology and sports psychology and so on and went off to grad school and studied behavioral medicine and health psychology. [cite: 2872]
Scott Benner Okay.
Beth and that gave me the opportunity to learn about holistic techniques, stress management, biofeedback, the whole brain body connection, which wasn't discussed [cite: 2873] Yeah. when we were young. [cite: 2874]
Scott Benner So then what did you do? [cite: 2874] You turn you took everything you learned, and you were like, I could probably help myself? [cite: 2875]
Beth Absolutely. [cite: 2875]
Scott Benner And so tell me how you did that. [cite: 2876]
Beth The minute I started hearing about the brain body connection, I could not believe how much that related to me. [cite: 2877] And I started taking it seriously, but, also, I could see the difference just sitting in class all day of what my lows and highs did to my study. [cite: 2878]
Scott Benner Mhmm. [cite: 2879]
Beth So I wanted to be in tighter range. [cite: 2879] So brain body connection, how any medical issue is it psychosomatic? [cite: 2880] I never heard that word before, but are these shoulder aches and headaches in my mind? [cite: 2881] Are they really there? [cite: 2882] Is my stress causing this, or am I having something muscular go on? [cite: 2882]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2883] I'm a big fan of John Sarno's books. [cite: 2883]
Beth Sure. [cite: 2883] I love him. [cite: 2884]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2884] And, they helped me throughout my life too. [cite: 2884]
Beth Good. [cite: 2884]
Scott Benner Couple things he said in one of his books that really stuck with me. [cite: 2885] If you go to work and have, a really stressful day and you come home with a headache, you don't think your brain is broken. [cite: 2886] But if you go to work, have a stressful day, you come back home and your back hurts, you think your back's broken. [cite: 2887] Mhmm. The idea, that they how did he put it? [cite: 2888] He said prior to World War the end of World War two, people didn't didn't complain about back pain that if you gave an MRI to a thousand healthy people, you'd see that, and that none of them who are complaining about back pain, you'd see slipped discs and bulging discs in, like, a large portion of them. [cite: 2889] And just the idea that you, you know, once you're upset about something and you think you're hurt, it can kind of magnify from there. [cite: 2890] You know, you pull a muscle and you go, there's something wrong. [cite: 2891] I'm hurt. [cite: 2891] And then you start to favor it, and then before you know it, it hurts more and more. [cite: 2892] I got through a a tough spot in my twenties just by telling myself quietly, not out loud, but there's nothing wrong. [cite: 2893] Your back's not broken. [cite: 2894] You're okay. [cite: 2894] And, it really did. [cite: 2894] It was a really great help to me as a younger person. [cite: 2895] So it's it's very cool that you were able to do that too. [cite: 2896]
Beth Doctor Sarnos is brilliant. [cite: 2896]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2896] A couple of his books are are are really valuable. [cite: 2897] Anyway, so you found more stuff like that. [cite: 2898] And now did you go into that field because you this is always something I'm interested in. [cite: 2898] Did you go into that field because you thought I need help, or did you not realize the connection between the help you needed and the education you were about to get? [cite: 2898]
Beth I have known I wanted to be a psychologist for diabetes since I was a teenager. [cite: 2899]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2899]
Beth I was having a temper tantrum in my room and a hormonal one, and I said, when I grow up, I wanna help people be able to talk about diabetes because my mom was dragging me around as a teen to therapist, and they would have a bowl of M and M's out or a bowl of Hershey's chocolate. [cite: 2900] And I kept thinking, is this a test, or are they so dumb that they don't think to take this away Mhmm. [cite: 2901] while I'm here? [cite: 2902] And that also kicked off the strange eating patterns I was having as a young person. [cite: 2902]
Scott Benner I know that that this isn't you know, there's a big difference between an actual eating disorder and even disordered eating. [cite: 2903] Mhmm. [cite: 2904] I think there's an argument to be made that every person living with diabetes has an incredibly odd relationship with food. [cite: 2904] I don't think you can avoid it. [cite: 2905] No. You know, to be perfectly honest. [cite: 2905] And I don't and and you could be ultra low carb all the way up to just, you know, I count my carbs and I eat what I eat. [cite: 2906] Like, anywhere in between on that spectrum, like, you are having thoughts and feelings and having to make considerations around food that most people do not think about. [cite: 2907] Right. Yeah. [cite: 2908] It's really impactful.
Beth I think of it this way, and I've said this in so many of my talks. [cite: 2908] All day long, we balance our food. [cite: 2909] Can I eat this? [cite: 2909] How many carbs? [cite: 2909] How many this? [cite: 2910] Will this have fat in it that hits me in two hours? [cite: 2910] Do you know anyone else that has to do the math to eat pizza? [cite: 2911]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2911] Yeah. [cite: 2912] No. No. No. No one else thinks about it the same way. [cite: 2912] You know, even, like, you know, Thanksgiving Day, like, oh, I get so sleepy later. [cite: 2913] If you wanna grab them and go, I'd I'd love to test your blood sugar. [cite: 2914] Bet I even though you don't have diabetes, I bet your blood sugar is up in the one sixties right now. [cite: 2915] It's sitting there making you feel this way. [cite: 2916] But they know they'll take a nap or wake up, and it'll be gone. [cite: 2916] And it's not you never have to look more deeply into it than that. [cite: 2917]
Beth In the same day, food could save our lives or it can kill us. [cite: 2917]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2918] That's a weird relationship to have with something. [cite: 2919] And
Beth so look at society and how we celebrate. [cite: 2919]
Scott Benner You know? [cite: 2920]
Beth Chocolate. [cite: 2920] Oh, it's Easter. [cite: 2920] Here is your Easter candy. [cite: 2920] Oh, every holiday gets a matching Hershey's wrapper. [cite: 2921]
Scott Benner Forget the holiday. Friday, we get pizza. [cite: 2921] On Sunday, we go for Chinese. [cite: 2922] On like, you know, like, it's just everything. [cite: 2922] Constantly, you get up in the morning, and you're in a rush. [cite: 2923] I don't have time to poach an egg. [cite: 2923] I gotta do something here. [cite: 2924] Like, what, none none of your options are good, like running out the door options. [cite: 2925] None of your stop at the store, you know, in the middle of the day because I'm working. [cite: 2926] Options are valuable. [cite: 2927] It's easy to tell people, oh, just eat clean food. [cite: 2927] And I I you know, we talk about it all the time in different episodes, but where are supposed to get that from? [cite: 2928] And what about all the Mhmm. And what about all the pressure and the impact and the the hidden damage it does, being worried about it or feeling guilty about it or feeling ashamed about it or whatever else comes up in the in your head that doesn't exactly bubble up into actual words, but has an impact on your life all the time. [cite: 2929]
Beth Well, I was sneaking food as a kid. [cite: 2930] Yeah. Here, you're wondering about my partying, but I have a stash of Hershey's chocolate that [cite: 2931]
Scott Benner That's like the party is under my pillow. [cite: 2931] Okay. [cite: 2932]
Beth And I and this was food I would steal from my dad. [cite: 2932]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2932]
Beth Or my brother was allowed gummy bears, and I wasn't. [cite: 2933] He could drink yoohoo and eat Entenmann's tasty cakes. [cite: 2934] I couldn't. [cite: 2934] I wasn't allowed. [cite: 2934] That's from Philly. [cite: 2935]
Scott Benner She's Yeah. [cite: 2935] She's tasty cakes. [cite: 2935] Everybody else is like, the hell she talking about? [cite: 2936] That's like
Beth Tasty cakes were the best. [cite: 2936]
Scott Benner Best tell people. [cite: 2936] A frozen crimpet, much better than a room temperature crimpet. [cite: 2937]
Beth They are the same as some of the excuse my French crap you buy in the market, a chocolate covered little cake with peanut butter. [cite: 2938] I was the chocolate peanut butter girl. [cite: 2939]
Scott Benner Okay. [cite: 2939]
Beth I would go to my best friend's house, and there'd be jars of candy everywhere. [cite: 2940] And her mother didn't. [cite: 2941] She did care what I did, but I don't think she realized [cite: 2941] how much I eating. [cite: 2942]
Scott Benner Well and what's the impact of that when you have to steal from your brother and steal from your dad? [cite: 2942] There's that's not a great feeling. [cite: 2943] Right? [cite: 2943] Because you're doing it, but you Shame. [cite: 2943]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2943] You're ashamed. [cite: 2943] Would imagine. [cite: 2944]
Beth I grew up with so much shame about food. [cite: 2944] And I'm hiding this, and you can't eat that. [cite: 2945] And that's a bad food, and that's a good food. [cite: 2946] And then I grew up to become this person that travels and lectures on let's change the language. [cite: 2947]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2948] Well, that's really what it is, isn't it? [cite: 2948] It's just the way you talk about it and the way you communicate it. [cite: 2949]
Beth Right. [cite: 2949]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2949] It's
Beth not good or bad food. [cite: 2950] It's unhealthy or healthy food. [cite: 2950]
Scott Benner Mhmm. [cite: 2950]
Beth Or I you come to my house. [cite: 2951] I have candy. [cite: 2951] I might go low. [cite: 2951] But people look at my house, and they're like, why do you have so much candy? [cite: 2952] You're diabetic. [cite: 2952]
Scott Benner You get that from people still? [cite: 2953]
Beth Oh, you now know what I do for a living, and I'll be walking down the street with a close friend taking a bite of something and say, you shouldn't eat that. [cite: 2953] You're diabetic. [cite: 2954]
Scott Benner How do you deal with that as an adult with your background? [cite: 2954] What do you do in that situation? [cite: 2955]
Beth I am not nice. [cite: 2955] I mean, I tried to be civil, but I'm like, are you kidding me? [cite: 2956] Do you know what I do for a living? [cite: 2957]
Scott Benner But they don't know. Right? [cite: 2957] Like, isn't that person trying to help you in that moment? [cite: 2958]
Beth Well, they better know what I do for [cite: 2959] a living. I mean about the food. [cite: 2959] Like, if if somebody know. If somebody's a friend of yours and they know you have diabetes, but they don't have a ton of context for it, and you, I don't know, grab something that they associate with not being for diabetics for whatever reason Right [cite: 2960] and they say that to you, Is that not a loving statement from them? [cite: 2961]
Scott Benner Like, can you eat that? Doesn't that mean, like, oh, are you gonna be okay? [cite: 2962] Should that like, I understand how you feel about it, and I don't disagree. [cite: 2963] But I'm wondering, like, do you think they're being [cite: 2963]
Beth No. No. [cite: 2964] Absolutely not. [cite: 2964] And in all honesty, I respond. [cite: 2964] I go, let me educate you a little bit. [cite: 2965]
Beth In the olden days with diabetes, we couldn't eat this unless we had low blood sugar. [cite: 2966] But now everything's based on carbohydrate. [cite: 2967] I love educating people. [cite: 2967]
Stress Spikes and Support Groups
Scott Benner Good. That's awesome. [cite: 2967] I give a lot of public talks, and I find there's things people are interested in me talking about more than others. [cite: 2968] And you kinda, like, develop kind of a niche of what you do. [cite: 2969] So when you go out and give your talks, what's your goal? [cite: 2970] People sitting in front of you, what do you want them to leave with when they leave? [cite: 2971]
Beth I want them to not feel so alone out in the world of diabetes. [cite: 2972] So if you were sitting in one of my balancing your relationship with food talks, which is one of my favorites to do Mhmm [cite: 2973] you would realize thirty to forty percent of people with type one are dealing with disordered eating, and you're not a bad person. [cite: 2974] I want people to understand that there are ways to get through it, and there are ways to build a healthier relationship with their diabetes and themselves. [cite: 2975] And some steps are so easy. [cite: 2976] For example, think about what you say to yourself all day, how you put yourself down, how you oh, I'm I'm two fifty. [cite: 2976] What did I do wrong? [cite: 2977] Well, I'm two fifty because I'm nervous about my meeting at 04:00. [cite: 2977] Or I'm dehydrated. [cite: 2978] I haven't had a sip of water all day [cite: 2978]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 2978]
Beth and how to correct it. [cite: 2979] And if we can change our conscious thinking to a healthier way of speaking to ourselves and I love teaching parents as well. [cite: 2979] You know, let's change the words we use. [cite: 2980] You're not testing. [cite: 2980] You're checking. [cite: 2980] It's not a bad number. [cite: 2981] It's information to build the dose on Yeah [cite: 2981] and things like that. [cite: 2981] And people come up to me afterwards, and they ask if they can hug me, which like, sure. [cite: 2982] I could use a hug too. [cite: 2982]
Beth Yeah. [cite: 2983] But they're just so validated, and they feel so seen Mhmm [cite: 2983] when they feel so judged by the doctors. [cite: 2084] Every doctor you go to relates your diabetes. [cite: 2984] Oh, I have a bad knee, I think. [cite: 2985] Up. [cite: 2985] It's your diabetes. [cite: 2985] Yeah. No [cite: 2985] No. [cite: 2986] it's not. [cite: 2986]
Scott Benner Not everything. You know, this morning, my daughter's 21, and she's getting ready to graduate from her undergrad in psychology, actually. [cite: 2986] And I'm looking at her graph to make your point. [cite: 2987] Mhmm. [cite: 2987] So I'm gonna go all the way back to, like, 1AM last night where Arden's blood sugar's pretty much been between seventy five and eighty five. [cite: 2988] Mhmm. [cite: 2989] 2AM, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, 09:10, eleven. [cite: 2989] She has to get in her car and drive to school because she's meeting with her counselor to make sure she's graduating on time because she's switched she switched majors at one point. [cite: 2990] So she's so she goes because, a, she'd like to graduate as, you know, when she as soon as she can because she wants to move on to get a different degree. [cite: 2991] And two, because she's hoping to walk with her friends because if it doesn't Sure. [cite: 2992] If it doesn't work out, then she's like, oh, I'm not even gonna walk if I can't do it with everybody, you know, in my age group, people I know. [cite: 2993] I can watch her blood sugar go up as she approaches the meeting Mhmm [cite: 2994] and then it stays up. [cite: 2995] She hasn't eaten anything. [cite: 2995]
Scott Benner And she's on an automated system that is bolusing and working and everything, but she now has an impact from nervousness, concern, worry. [cite: 2996] I don't know. [cite: 2997] Rushing around. [cite: 2997] I have absolutely no idea what. [cite: 2997] But then so I don't know. [cite: 2997] Like, I'm kinda watching it at home as it's happening. [cite: 2998] And all I can think is, I wonder if she's getting good or bad news. [cite: 2999] Is this adrenaline? [cite: 2999] Is it, like, Yes. [cite: 3000] You know what I mean? [cite: 3000] Like, what is this that's hitting her? [cite: 3000] And she walked through the door, and she she's so happy. [cite: 3001] And she's like, guess who's gonna walk with her friends? [cite: 3001] Oh. [cite: 3002] And then she told me all about it, but now I realize and for anybody else wondering, Arden's blood sugar went from being stable between seventy five and eighty five for, like, ten hours to being at its height, one eighty. [cite: 3003]
Scott Benner Am I looking at that right? [cite: 3004]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 3004]
Scott Benner One eighty two. [cite: 3004] Mhmm. [cite: 3004] And it's all just, like, that meeting. [cite: 3005] It's just you can watch it happen over the timeline of the meeting. [cite: 3005] That that's it. [cite: 3006] It's you know what I mean? [cite: 3006]
Beth Yeah. I have predictable highs. [cite: 3006] For example, I do a once a month support group for breakthrough t one d. [cite: 3007] Mhmm. [cite: 3007]
Beth And right before the meeting, even though I'm leading it, I created the slideshow and so on about ten minutes before it starts going up. [cite: 3008] Middle of the meeting, I am peaking high Yeah [cite: 3009] in the two hundreds. [cite: 3009] And then it takes about a half hour afterwards to come down. [cite: 3010]
Scott Benner To come back down. [cite: 3010] Do you ever bolus for it ahead of time? [cite: 3011] No. Try to get ahead of it? [cite: 3011] Why not? [cite: 3012] Tell me why not. [cite: 3012]
Beth Because I know it'll come back down, and when I did experiment and do that, I dropped. [cite: 3012]
Scott Benner What system do you use now? [cite: 3013]
Beth I'm on the Moby. [cite: 3013]
Scott Benner So you're using a Control IQ Plus? [cite: 3014]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 3014]
Scott Benner Have you experimented with it since you've been on that pump, or did you experiment with it earlier on a manual pump? [cite: 3015]
Beth I experimented with it recently, and the drop happens afterwards when I come back down. [cite: 3016]
Scott Benner Because all the adrenaline goes away. [cite: 3017]
Beth Mhmm. Yes. [cite: 3017]
Scott Benner Okay. So yeah. [cite: 3017] I mean, that makes complete sense to me. [cite: 3018] I was just wondering what your experience was. [cite: 3018] What else do you want people to know? [cite: 3019] Why are you here? [cite: 3019]
Beth Why am I here? [cite: 3019]
Scott Benner I Not on the planet. On the podcast. [cite: 3020]
Beth Well, I think I had a friend recently say to me, you're so lucky you know your purpose, and it is to help people with type one and type two diabetes. [cite: 3021] But I want people to know that they're not alone, which I've said, but that having a good relationship with your diabetes also comes from your support system. [cite: 3022] So if you're going to an endocrinologist that does everything right according to the books but makes you feel so much shame about your diabetes, it's not a good relationship. [cite: 3023] You need to work with someone who motivates you. [cite: 3024] Having the right endo and the good relationship with your diabetes educator will be a game changer. [cite: 3025]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3026] I I wish everybody could find thoughtful doctors. [cite: 3026] Well, I actually started a website because of it. [cite: 3027] It's got, like, 230 doctors on it now from that listener sent in because it's hard sometimes to find Mhmm [cite: 3028] a person who's motivated to help, who understands you, understands diabetes, the tough mix. [cite: 3028]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 3029]
Scott Benner So my website, if people care, it's juiceboxdocs.com. [cite: 3030] My question to you is gonna be, do you have a practice? [cite: 3030]
Beth Yes. [cite: 3031]
Scott Benner You do. [cite: 3031] How much do you see overlap between anxiety and type one diabetes? [cite: 3031] And do you see it as a symptom of having an autoimmune issue or something you can't fix, or do you think that the anxiety might also be because of the inflammation and and the autoimmune stuff? [cite: 3032] Have you thought about [cite: 3033]
Beth Yes. [cite: 3033] I think about it every day. It's twofold. [cite: 3033] When we are having fluctuating blood sugars, you then get into your brain not synapsing the same as someone without type one. [cite: 3034] And if you are at 200 and you get agitated, that is because the part of the brain that says, don't be a bitch isn't getting the message soon enough before the words come out. [cite: 3035]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 3036] And when you are having to do an exam or something then and you're anxious about the exam, you're going high. [cite: 3036] Then you're in a bad mood. [cite: 3037] Then you're not doing as well on the exam because you're high. [cite: 3037]
Scott Benner And then that snowballs. [cite: 3038] They start impacting each other. The blood sugar impacts the anxiety. [cite: 3038] The anxiety impacts the blood sugar. [cite: 3039] You get caught in a in a in a loop. [cite: 3039]
Beth It's it's a spiral. And then there's also you know, if you look at something like depression and anxiety, it's very common in diabetes. [cite: 3040] At a time, it was one out of four people living with type one have experienced it. [cite: 3041] I don't mean they live with it constantly, but they live with it. [cite: 3042] And then I have many people come into my practice with complete burnout and diabetes distress. [cite: 3043]
Scott Benner Mhmm. [cite: 3043]
Beth And they are just exhausted from the beeping and the buzzing and I don't wanna do this, and they turn off their CGM. [cite: 3044] The depression comes when you're running high, for example, because you become insulin resistant, and then it becomes harder and harder to bring it down. [cite: 3045] You're angry at yourself. [cite: 3046] You feel ashamed. [cite: 3046] You feel hopeless or helpless, and it's also a cycle. [cite: 3046]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3047] You also have brain fog in that situation, and Mhmm [cite: 3047] there's just a lot of different impactors. [cite: 3048] What do you suggest for people? [cite: 3048] Like, do you think that stability in your blood sugar is an impactor a main impactor, and then you can address anxiety outside of diabetes? [cite: 3049]
Beth Oh, good question.
Scott Benner I'm full of these questions. Go ahead.
Beth Right. [cite: 3050] I, I think it is it would definitely help to get your numbers in order. [cite: 3051] 100% will help with your mental health. [cite: 3052] Will it cure it? [cite: 3052] No. [cite: 3053] If you're in a depressed state, you'd need to get some form of support. [cite: 3053] Talk to a therapist. [cite: 3054] Join a support group. [cite: 3054] There's all types of holistic treatments regulating your nervous system. [cite: 3055]
Scott Benner Mhmm. [cite: 3055]
Beth But you will start to feel better because you're not walking around at 02:50 or four hundred all the time. [cite: 3056] You will be thinking clearer. [cite: 3057]
Scott Benner Yeah. That's the pretty much the the, I don't know, the base of the focus I've had doing this podcast for so long, which is I think that if you can just lower your a one c by, you know, closing up your variability, try not to get too high or too low, that that leads to a lot of different successes in physical and mental health. [cite: 3057]
Beth I agree. [cite: 3058]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3058] And it's tough because when you're in a you call it a spiral, but, like, when you're when you're caught in that loop, right, it's easy to point out it's even easy to point out, like, there are five factors keeping you in this loop. [cite: 3058] Well, that's great, but it's spinning out of control, and each one of them is stopping me from impacting the other one. [cite: 2959] So how am I supposed to, like, reset and start over? [cite: 3060] And I think that the most reasonable place to start is with your blood sugar. [cite: 3061]
Scott Benner Because if somebody can help you walk through, I gotta get my basal right. [cite: 3062] I gotta make sure my insulin to carb ratio is right. [cite: 3063] Mhmm. [cite: 3063] I'm gonna make sure my sensitivity is good. [cite: 3064] Now my settings are good. [cite: 3064] Now maybe I'll have better outcomes. [cite: 3065] Maybe I'll have fewer highs, fewer lows. [cite: 3065] I won't be eating all the time to fix the lows. [cite: 3066] And then, you know, a week, a month of that, maybe it will will lead to some sort of calm. [cite: 3067] You know what I mean? [cite: 3068] Or or or just a just a space where you can exist for a minute without, like, frantically chasing these [cite: 3068] these things. [cite: 3069] And then who knows what will present itself next? [cite: 3069]
Beth Well, you're lowering the inflammation in your brain, so the neurons are firing better. [cite: 3070] You're getting better uptake of serotonin, of dopamine. [cite: 3071] You're sleeping better because you're not buzzing. [cite: 3071] So that's a big part of it. [cite: 3072] Then your self esteem goes up because you're taking care of yourself. [cite: 3072]
Scott Benner But buzzing is an interesting way to put it. [cite: 3073] I I know I know exactly what you mean. [cite: 3074] I have I there are people in my life who I I when I come in contact with them, I feel like they're vibrating. [cite: 3075] Mhmm. You you know? [cite: 3076] And when you stop and pick those people apart, sometimes they're stressed out. [cite: 3076] They're anxious. [cite: 3077] They're you know, they have other sometimes they have mental health issues or whatever, but they and they stand next to them. [cite: 3077] I feel like they're moving. [cite: 3078]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 3078]
Scott Benner You you know? [cite: 3078] And it always makes me wonder, god, how do they feel? [cite: 3079] If I can feel it over here, what's going on inside of them? [cite: 3080]
Beth You know? Right. [cite: 3080] I meant the buzzing from the pumps. [cite: 3081]
Scott Benner Oh, well, guess what? I meant that. [cite: 3081] So I know what you Yeah. [cite: 3082] Yeah. Yeah. [cite: 3082] But you're saying smart too, but, like, I that's what it made me think of. [cite: 3083] Do you agree with what I'm saying? [cite: 3084] Like or Yes. Yeah. [cite: 3084]
Beth Absolutely. [cite: 3084] You feel their anxiety or their their toxicity almost. [cite: 3085]
Scott Benner Yeah. They're vibrating, I sometimes feel like. [cite: 3085]
Beth And then I think because the prevalence of disordered eating or an unhealthy relationship with food is so high in type one diabetes and probably type two. [cite: 3086] And I wanna say 50% of my practice right now is binge eating people. [cite: 3087]
Scott Benner Mhmm. [cite: 3087]
Beth That's a high amount. [cite: 3088] I have a full practice. [cite: 3088] It's building that healthy relationship with the food, with diabetes, and with your conscious thinking. [cite: 3089] I had a horrible day today. [cite: 3090] I'm gonna go home and invite my boyfriends over, Ben and Jerry, and maybe they'll bring their friends, Keebler elves, and it'll be okay. [cite: 3090]
Scott Benner Oh, Ben and Jerry ruined that ice cream when they sold it, but I hear what you're saying. [cite: 3091] Are GLPs helping people with this? [cite: 3092]
Beth Yes. Cutting down the food noise. [cite: 3092]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3092] Gotta be a big deal. [cite: 3093] Plus, I think it lowers inflammation, which I think is incredibly valuable for people with type one or people with autoimmune issues. [cite: 3093] I see people with type one who have insulin resistance on top of that are being helped immensely with it. [cite: 3094]
Beth Yes. [cite: 3095]
Scott Benner You know? [cite: 3095] But that's not a thing. You can't prescribe that. Right? [cite: 3095] You don't [cite: 3096]
Beth No.
Scott Benner No. You don't prescribe. [cite: 3096] And so when you see somebody who feels that way, does your word carry weight with their physician and their insurance? [cite: 3096]
Beth I give them the tools to go back to their doctor if they want to, but I am not a let's rush to medication type person. [cite: 3097] I am you have to get along with food for the rest of your life. [cite: 3098]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3098] Well, it's easier to get along with it when it's not attacking you, though. [cite: 3099]
Beth Right. [cite: 3099]
Scott Benner You know, I can just I can only tell you from my personal experience. [cite: 3100] I don't have type one diabetes. [cite: 3101] I've been using a GLP for three years, and it has fundamentally made my life better in more ways than I can kinda quantify right now for you. [cite: 3101]
Beth Oh, I it it has so many benefits. [cite: 3102] Mhmm. So many benefits. [cite: 3102] But let's say you still have to get along with the food, and you still have to be your own biggest cheerleader. [cite: 3103]
Scott Benner But, again, how do you do that if you're caught in the whirlwind? [cite: 3104] So it's it's an easy thing to say. [cite: 3105] So one thing may I please take this from from where I mean it from? [cite: 3105] I'm a big fan of therapy and talking and understanding how your mind works, and I know you're aware of the podcast. [cite: 3106] I Erica's on like, she and I are always talking about something I know. [cite: 3107] Around this. [cite: 3107] But the one thing that frustrates me about therapy is that it doesn't mean just because you understand that it's gonna happen, and life is finite. [cite: 3108] Like, don't wanna spend ten years figuring out my relationship with food when I could inject this stuff and Mhmm [cite: 3109] and me and the food could start on a level playing field right away, and then maybe I could work on it. [cite: 3110] Like, do you know what I mean? [cite: 3111]
Beth Well, I still see many of my patients on the GLPs still having unhealthy eating. [cite: 3111]
Scott Benner Oh, yeah. [cite: 3112] I don't think they don't need the therapy stuff. [cite: 3112] I don't think it's one or the other. [cite: 3113] I think, like, could it not be, I mean, a crutch to help you get going? [cite: 3113]
Beth It could be definitely be a crutch, and I don't think everyone needs to rush off and have therapy. [cite: 3114] There's so many ways to help yourself. [cite: 3115] Yes. Come to therapy, please. [cite: 3115] But there's so many other ways to help yourself. [cite: 3115] Get into a support group. [cite: 3116] Start going to diabetes events. [cite: 3117] Show up at my free education group online. [cite: 3117]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3117] Be I mean, go online and just meet other people who have diabetes. [cite: 3118] That's incredibly valuable. [cite: 3118]
Beth It it's priceless. [cite: 3119]
Scott Benner Hard to mimic in in person sometimes because it's not I mean, listen. [cite: 3119] You know those events, you you go to them and you're speaking at them. [cite: 3120] I mean, I've done every JDRF event in, like I I've probably done one in, like, 20 different states. [cite: 3121] and they're wonderful and put on really well, but you're lucky if 200 people show up at one. [cite: 3122]
Beth Right. [cite: 3123]
Scott Benner And so when there's a state full of people who need help and and that help is presented to them, and yet it only attracts 200 of them, then to me, that says that's not an answer for those peep for a lot of those people. [cite: 3123] Mhmm. Online, really. [cite: 3124] I'll probably say over and over again unless it falls apart or fails at some point, but my Facebook group is incredibly valuable for that. [cite: 3124]
Beth I love your group. [cite: 3125]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3125] Yeah. [cite: 3126] And, like, you gotta go find reasonable, lovely people like you Mhmm [cite: 3126] who have similar situations that you have going on because it may bring some of that calm. [cite: 3127] It takes some of the vibration away. [cite: 3128] Mhmm. And then again, like, you know, you make a small change for yourself and then kinda reacclimate again, and then you're surprised, I find, at the doors that open up for other change. [cite: 3129]
Beth Yes. [cite: 3130]
Scott Benner You know? [cite: 3130] I I hate to sound like a yogi, but but I feel like I almost sound ridiculous sometimes. [cite: 3130]
Beth No. [cite: 3131]
Scott Benner Because I didn't grow up this way. [cite: 3131] You understand? [cite: 3131] And and, like but it's just so obvious to me at this point. [cite: 3132] Go meet other people. [cite: 3132]
Beth Go meet there is nothing good about diabetes except for one thing, the community. [cite: 3133]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3133] Yeah. [cite: 3134] It really is lovely. [cite: 3134]
Beth It real there's nothing but you meet these people. [cite: 3134] I do these walk and talks and events for kids and just talking with the other parents and hearing their secrets and letting them voice themselves and to stand in a room. [cite: 3135] I have chills saying this. [cite: 3136] To be able to stand in a room where everyone understands the frustration of a Dexcom failure. [cite: 3136]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3137] I do touch by type one every year, and that's been growing. [cite: 3137] They had, like, 1,100 people at their event last year. [cite: 3138] It's been growing and growing and getting bigger. [cite: 3138] And I've last year, I went to Friends for Life for the first time. [cite: 3139] Mhmm. [cite: 3139] I don't really know how to explain, but when you collect a whole bunch of people together who have type one diabetes, their stillness happens. [cite: 3140]
Beth Right. [cite: 3141]
Scott Benner I watch them all relax. [cite: 3141] Mhmm. [cite: 3141] And then the space feels more relaxed. And then suddenly, it eliminates the diabetes portion of it. [cite: 3142] I did a I did a a cruise last year with, like, a 100 people. [cite: 3143]
Beth I know. [cite: 3143]
Scott Benner And it got them all together, and they just immediately all had something in common. [cite: 3144] And there you were. [cite: 3145] It was so it was a a really wonderful experience. [cite: 3145] Enough so that I did I'm like, I'm gonna do it again. [cite: 3146] Like, so we're going out again this year. [cite: 3147] I knew it was gonna happen. [cite: 3147] I knew it academically. [cite: 3148] It's different to be there while it's happening. [cite: 3148] Does that make sense? [cite: 3148]
Beth Yes. [cite: 3149] Yeah. [cite: 3149] Well, I was gonna share a quick note. [cite: 3149] First of all, I have clients going on your cruise. [cite: 3150] Oh. [cite: 3150] So there you go. [cite: 3150]
Scott Benner Hi, everybody. [cite: 3151]
Beth But how I know about this is I run a woman support group. [cite: 3151] Mhmm. [cite: 3152] And I took it over from a therapist who did research back in the eighties and nineties measuring how a one c's drop when you join a group. [cite: 3152] So does support group for type ones bring the numbers down? [cite: 3153] And her dad was a well known endocrinologist, and people were so surprised by how strong of an impact it was. [cite: 3154]
Scott Benner I can't tell you how many people have told me that listening to the podcast helps their their management. [cite: 3155]
Beth So much. [cite: 3156]
Scott Benner Yeah. [cite: 3156] And when I used to when I first heard it, I've said this so many times, but I really felt it's really impactful. [cite: 3156] The first time somebody said it to me, I said, oh, is it because I taught you how to pre bolus or account and they were like, no. [cite: 3157] I knew how to do all of that. [cite: 3158] And then it gets explained to me over and over again that there's some it's like a touch point, and the touch point keeps you grounded somehow, and the grounding leads to you Mhmm [cite: 3158]
Scott Benner taking better care of yourself without feeling overwhelmed by the effort that goes into it. [cite: 3159]
Beth Oh, it's and to see people just like you. [cite: 3160] I think another helpful thing, for younger type ones, but I recommend it. [cite: 3161] Find your role models. [cite: 3161] The fact that I watched opening weekend of March Madness and new four kids were playing with type one, or the last three years in the Super Bowl, someone or two people with type one were playing [cite: 3162] Yeah [cite: 3163] in the Super Bowl. [cite: 3163]
Scott Benner Yeah. No. It's really cool. It it really does help. [cite: 3163] I interviewed Mark Andrews' mom one time. [cite: 3164] It was so interesting just to listen to the lady who raised a kid with type one diabetes who became the tight end of the ravens. [cite: 3164]
Beth Right. [cite: 3165]
Scott Benner It was just a a really interesting, situation. [cite: 3165] I've also even my daughter who has her own group of people with type one diabetes that she, you know, kind of supports, like, a very personal small group of people. [cite: 3166] But even when she was younger, I remember seeing, gosh. Who was it? God. [cite: 3167] He's been on the podcast a couple of times. [cite: 3168] I love this guy. [cite: 3168] The, cross country skier. [cite: 3169] Why is his name alluding? [cite: 3169]
Beth Blanking on his name. [cite: 3169]
Scott Benner But he skied across the screen one day in the Olympics. [cite: 3170] I was like, I was like, hey. [cite: 3171] That guy is type one. [cite: 3171] And I watched her stop and really watched what he was doing for a minute before she walked away. [cite: 3172] And I don't think cross country skiing is on Arden's, you know, list of things she's interested in. [cite: 3173] But there it was. [cite: 3173] It just you could see like, oh, that guy. Then I said, oh, he wears an Omnipod. [cite: 3174] Mhmm. [cite: 3175] And she's like, oh. [cite: 3175] And then it just it's a little comfort point. [cite: 3176] You know? [cite: 3176] And it moves away. [cite: 3176]
Beth For me, it was Gary Clark Gary Hall junior. [cite: 3176] And he was diagnosed right before he was the in the Olympics. [cite: 3177] And everyone said, you won't be able to swim. [cite: 3178] And then he got to my endocrinologist, and she's like, we're going. [cite: 3179] Let's go. [cite: 3179] We're going to the Olympics. [cite: 3180]
Scott Benner Why can't you do that? Right? [cite: 3180]
Beth Of course, you can swim. [cite: 3181]
Scott Benner Yeah. Well, that's just that's the time or people who don't know or doctors who don't know. [cite: 3181] Mhmm. [cite: 3182] By the way, I'm sorry. Chris Freeman. [cite: 3182] I don't know how Chris' name escaped me. [cite: 3183] He's I actually, I love the way Chris I don't think he does a lot of stuff diabetes related like he used to, but he's one of those people like, he he speaks very, I think, clearly Mhmm [cite: 3183] and honestly about what it takes to take a good care of yourself. [cite: 3184] And and and I I like the way he talks about diabetes. [cite: 3185]
Scott Benner Anyway, he skied across the screen one day, and I and Arden was interested, and I felt like she got some sort of comfort out of it for a moment. [cite: 3186]
Beth Yes. I every time I see Jean Smart win an Emmy, I'm her silent cheerleader here. [cite: 3187] Like, that woman has type one, or I read the Sonia Sotomayor book. [cite: 3188] And these people are amazing. [cite: 3188] You can sit through taping a show and handle your type one when I was a little girl first diagnosed. [cite: 3189] My true role model was Mary Tyler Moore. [cite: 3190]
Scott Benner Oh, sure. Yeah. [cite: 3190] How did you guys even know back then she had diabetes? [cite: 3191] Is that, like, just was that in the Diabetes Forecast magazine? [cite: 3192]
Beth I think she was pretty open with it. [cite: 3193]
Scott Benner About
Beth people in the diabetes world knew. [cite: 3193]
Scott Benner On the flip side, how does it make you feel when you see a a person who not that anybody needs to be a role model. [cite: 3194] Right? If you're famous, it doesn't mean you have to be a role model. [cite: 3195] But when you see somebody who has type one, and then it's kind of clear they don't really understand it very well, you must have so I've yeah. You must have seen it. I've seen it too. So, like, does it make you think, oh, gosh. That's a shame or good for them that they don't they're apparently doing okay, and they're not really burdened by it or thinking about it too much? [cite: 3198]
Beth I see people that I know have type one. [cite: 3200] I see this more with men and women who will be out and about, go low, and have to go do the concessions and get something. [cite: 3201] I'm like, you don't carry anything? [cite: 3202] How do you not carry anything? [cite: 3202] Or they don't wear a CGM, or they don't wanna know the latest and greatest because they don't care. [cite: 3203] And I talk to them. [cite: 3204] I have friends like this. [cite: 3205] I have people I see out in the community, and I try to educate them a tiny little bit without being annoying. [cite: 3205] Yeah. I did I did convince one friend to go on the CGM. [cite: 3206] He said I changed his life. [cite: 3207]
Scott Benner Yeah. That's so Wonderful. [cite: 3207] I have to tell you, we're up on an hour. [cite: 3208] But, Beth, my maybe my favorite part of you is that when if I say something that you find impactful or you agree, you don't restate it. [cite: 3209] You just make a great noise that makes me know that you understand me. [cite: 3210] I said something, and you went, yeah. [cite: 3211] And I thought, oh, she got it, and we don't have to talk anymore. [cite: 3211] This is great. Mhmm. Mhmm. [cite: 3212]
Scott Benner Where can people find you? [cite: 3212]
Beth I'm all over the place. [cite: 3213] No. I am at doctorbethbraun.org. [cite: 3213] Easier to find me on Instagram at Duin Diabetes, d o I n. [cite: 3214] Or
Scott Benner No. There's other ways? Go ahead. I'm sorry.
Beth Yeah. [cite: 3216] I was gonna say if you have questions about anything I said or something that might be helpful, just shoot me an email, and it's a really simple email. [cite: 3216] Ask doctor Beth at Gmail. [cite: 3217]
Scott Benner Very cool. I appreciate you doing this. [cite: 3217] This is really, really terrific. [cite: 3218]
Beth The work you're doing, Scott, is so impactful. [cite: 3218] Every diabetes event I go to, and it's quite a bunch, everyone talks about your podcasts. [cite: 3219]
Scott Benner Oh, that's nice to know. I got yelled at on Instagram yesterday, so this is nice. [cite: 3220] Thank you. [cite: 3221]
Beth Yeah. That and whoever's yelling, whatever. [cite: 3221]
Scott Benner They don't. [cite: 3221] That person had a a very strong opinion about something I should be doing that I'm not doing. [cite: 3222] And and I was like, you should start a thing on your own and do it. [cite: 3223] Don't Oh. [cite: 3223] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What what's the just a a old line in a movie I can never remember. [cite: 3225] But I I just felt like I'm like, I I'm not you. [cite: 3225] You know? [cite: 3225]
Scott Benner You're you're you and I'm doing a thing already. [cite: 3226] I'm I'm I don't have infinite time or infinite compute cycles in my brain. [cite: 3227] I'm doing the thing that I think is valuable for people. [cite: 3228] It's proving out to be so. [cite: 3228] I don't have the the bandwidth for the thing you think is important that I should be doing. [cite: 3229] I'm sorry. By the way, I agree with you on on the I I agreed about the topic and the idea and the whole thing. [cite: 3230] I just don't have it's just not possible. [cite: 3231]
Beth People just want to argue on social media. [cite: 3231]
Scott Benner That's very possible. [cite: 3232]
Beth Scott, really quickly, there is one other place. [cite: 3232] I have a wonderful re free resource, and that's my breakthrough t one d s, the therapist support groups. [cite: 3233] And I put all the info on my social media, but they are typically the last Tuesday of the month at 12:00. [cite: 3234]
Scott Benner Okay. Oh, it's lovely. So you can find that through your social media too? [cite: 3235] Absolutely. Great. [cite: 3235] Well, thank you so much for doing this. I really do appreciate your time. [cite: 3236]
Beth Thank you for having me. [cite: 3237]
Scott Benner That's a joy. It was really lovely. [cite: 3237] Hold on one second for me. Okay? [cite: 3238]
Beth Mhmm. [cite: 3238]
Scott Benner This episode is sponsored by the Tandem Mobi system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. [cite: 3239] Tandem Mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. [cite: 3240] Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. [cite: 3241] The conversation you just enjoyed was brought to you by US Med. [cite: 3241] Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. [cite: 3242]
Scott Benner Get started today and get your supplies from US Med. [cite: 3242] Are you tired of getting a rash from your CGM adhesive? [cite: 3243] Give the Eversense three sixty five a try. [cite: 3244] Eversensecgm.com/juicebox. [cite: 3244] Beautiful silicone that they use. [cite: 3244]
Scott Benner It changes every day, keeps it fresh. [cite: 3245] Not only that, you only have to change the sensor once a year. [cite: 3245] So, I mean, that's better. [cite: 3245] Thank you so much for listening. [cite: 3246] I'll be back very soon with another episode of the juice box podcast. [cite: 3247] If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app, like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. [cite: 3248] Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. [cite: 3249] If you go a little further in Apple podcast and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend. [cite: 3250] And if you leave a five star review, oh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. [cite: 3251] Would you like a Christmas card? [cite: 3252]
Scott Benner Alright. Let's get down to it. [cite: 3252] You want the management stuff from the podcast. [cite: 3253] You don't care about all this chitting and chatting with other people. [cite: 3253] Juiceboxpodcast.com/lists. [cite: 3254]
Scott Benner They are downloadable, easy to read. [cite: 3254] Every series, every episode, they're all numbered. [cite: 3254] Makes it super simple for you to go right into that search feature. [cite: 3255] In your audio app, type juice box one seven nine five to find episode one seven nine five. [cite: 3256] Juiceboxpodcast.com/lists. [cite: 3257]
Scott Benner If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. [cite: 3257] Listen. [cite: 3258] Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. [cite: 3258] He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go, and stuff like that. [cite: 3259] And it just I don't know, man. [cite: 3260] Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? [cite: 3261] And then I remember because I did one smart thing. [cite: 3261] I hired Rob at wrongwayrecording.com. [cite: 3261]
#1855 Murder at the Subway
Thirty-two-year type 1 veteran Lars discusses his screening trial diagnosis in New Zealand , moving to Canada , and why current transplant trials shouldn't be called a cure yet.
Key Takeaways
- Early Screening Benefits: Lars’s type 1 diabetes was caught before the onset of clinical symptoms through an early 1990s pediatric antibody screening trial in New Zealand led by Professor Bob Elliott.
- Retinopathy Remission: Proactive management, a stable A1C (currently 5.9), and targeted anti-VEGF eye injections successfully stopped the progression of Lars's diabetic retinopathy, leaving him treatment-free for over 18 months.
- Altitude & Hypoglycemia Awareness: Moving to a significantly higher elevation (such as Calgary, Canada) can temporarily blunt or mask typical physiological low blood sugar warning signs, requiring heightened vigilance and device reliance during acclimatization.
- The Clickbait Clinical Reality: Lars shares a grounded perspective on modern stem cell and islet transplant trials, cautioning against media clickbait that labels functional management alternatives as a full "cure" while anti-rejection therapies remain necessary.
- Community Mentorship: Navigating more than three decades of type 1 diabetes across multiple continents highlights the value of long-term veterans volunteering in peer support spaces to guide newly diagnosed families.
Resources Mentioned
Introduction and Sponsor Messages
Scott Benner Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Lars Hi. My name's Lars. I'm a type one diabetic, have been for about thirty two years.
Scott Benner My grand rounds series was designed by listeners to tell doctors what they need, and it also helps you to understand what to ask for. There's a mental wellness series that addresses the emotional side of diabetes and practical ways to stay balanced. And when we talk about GLP medications, well, we'll break down what they are, how they may help you, and if they fit into your diabetes management plan. What do these three things have in common? They're all available at juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu.
Scott Benner I know it can be hard to find these things in a podcast app, so we've collected them all for you at juiceboxpodcast.com. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. But everybody is welcome. Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook.
Scott Benner Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. This episode of the juice box podcast is brought to you by my favorite diabetes organization, touched by Type one. Please take a moment to learn more about them at touchedbytype1.org on Facebook and Instagram.
Scott Benner Touched by type one dot org. Check out their many programs, their annual conference, awareness campaign, their d box program, dancing for diabetes. They have a dance program for local kids, a golf night, and so much more. Touchedbytype1.org. You're looking to help or you wanna see people helping people with typeone, you want touchedbytype1.org.
Scott Benner Today's episode is also sponsored by Eversense three sixty five, the only one year wear CGM. That's one insertion and one CGM a year. One CGM, one year. Not every ten or fourteen days. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. The podcast is also sponsored today by System, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus Technology. Tandem Mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox.
A Unique Diagnosis: The New Zealand Screening Trials
Lars Hi. My name is Lars. I'm a type one diabetic, have been for about thirty two years.
Scott Benner How old are you, Lars?
Lars I'm 45 this year.
Scott Benner 45. You were 13 when you were diagnosed?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. And...
Lars But I bet you all the money in the world, you've never heard my diagnosis story.
Scott Benner Oh, I can't wait to find out. I just wanted to find out real quickly. Are you married? Do you have kids? Are you single? What's your...
Lars I'm married, and I have a daughter.
Scott Benner How old?
Lars She's 17.
Scott Benner Oh my gosh. Look at you. Alright. Well, what do you mean? What happened? Don't you feel like it's possible I've heard every version of someone's diagnosis story?
Lars Potentially. I mean, you've been doing this for a while, so potentially. But my one is very different.
Scott Benner Alright. Surprise me. Let's do it.
Lars So in the early nineties, a famous professor in New Zealand, he was knighted as well, he pioneered and it's actually relevant to to trials going on now. He pioneered use of encapsulated pig islet cells. Okay. So way back in the early nineties and stuff, and so he got approval in New Zealand, which is where I'm from originally, to test all the five year olds in the country at the time for islet cell antibodies. So with 10 being a borderline count, and obviously the ethics said if there were any one of the five year olds had, like, a count of 10, then they would test the entire family. Mom and dad got tested. There's was, like, one or two, which was normal, so they weren't worried about but my count came back at, like, 324.
Scott Benner Oh, okay. 10 being borderline. Wait. What was the doctor's name?
Lars Professor Bob Elliott.
Scott Benner Bob Elliott. Okay. Yes. And his idea...
Lars So he was trying to see if a form of vitamin d, pretty sure it was vitamin d, called nicotinamide, would hold off the onset of developing type one diabetes.
Scott Benner Okay. So he wanted to test everybody, get a baseline, and on top of that, hit some kids with vitamin d if they had certain markers?
Lars Yes. An islet cell count. And so because my sister was 10, which was the borderline, I'm not sure how they worked that out, but they did. And so mine they pulled me in to test me. My islet cell antibody count came up at 324 or something insanely large. Okay. So they started me off with these nicotinamide tablets, literally horse tranquilizer pills, twice the size of a Tylenol. And so I I was nine, nine and a half, trying to swallow these, so I had to learn to swallow these huge tablets. And then part of the trial was I went in for a yearly glucose tolerance test. I was fine for the first two and a half, three years going into my first year of high school because obviously schooling's a bit different to in New Zealand to North America. And about April, just before Easter, so great time. And they got the results back for the glucose tolerance test, called me in, and gave me Protivane and Actrapid or whatever. Yeah. I think that's what it was. And he said, you're diabetic now.
Scott Benner Did they think that the vitamin d had any impact on it? Like, do you know what the result of his study was?
Lars They think it held the onset off for about three and a half years. No kidding. Yeah. The last I heard, there was still some people who and this was about ten to fifteen years ago who were still taking it and hadn't developed it. So there's something in that vitamin d combination that looks like it held it off, but yeah. Sorry.
Scott Benner No kidding. If it worked for you, it worked for you for about three years. And then how old were you when you were finally diagnosed? 13.
Lars A month into my first year at high school, so I was yeah, 13 or 14. Did it come on very quickly when it came on, or was it slow?
Lars I had no symptoms. Nothing. I just went in for the yearly glucose tolerance test Oh, I did as part of the research, and they diagnosed me that way.
Scott Benner Oh, wow.
Lars Obviously, my glucose tolerance was very bad, so it's like, here you go. Here's your insulin. You're diabetic now. And by that time, my parents and sisters had dropped off to zero. So I was the lucky one, and none of the rest of my family have it either. So...
Scott Benner Here's what I was able to find online. For type one diabetes risk and prevention, the overall evidence has been weak or inconsistent. 2021 Mendelian randomized study found that lower vitamin d levels did not appear to have a substantial impact on type one diabetes risk in population study, which argues against the vitamin d being a major cause lever. Yeah. I don't know. There's a lot here about it. If people are interested in reading, like you know, if you could look into into Bob Elliott's work, he passed away a few years ago, it looks like.
Lars In 2020. Yes. My gosh. And did your sister ever end up getting diabetes? Nope. I'm the only one in my entire family. The lucky one.
Growing Up in the 1990s & The Subway Video
Scott Benner Do you have any other autoimmune issues?
Lars Thyroid.
Scott Benner Hypo? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Lars My mom had her thyroid, so she had a she took the other one. So she had the...
Scott Benner Your mom was hyper? Yes. Bulging eyes, goiter, stuff like that?
Lars No. Not quite that bad. She was on the medication. But...
Scott Benner Okay. I'm sorry. When you were diagnosed, you were in New Zealand at that point still?
Lars Yes, I was.
Scott Benner What was it like growing up there with it?
Lars I mean, it was in nineties, so we didn't have all the great insulins we have now and no pumps or anything. So I was different, obviously, and you don't want to be different as a teenager starting your first year of high school. Right? So but I had a pretty I suppose you can call it normal teenage life. Like, I just had friends and everything, still played sports Mhmm. Everything. So...
Scott Benner Nothing remarkable to you about growing up with it?
Lars No. Okay. Not really. I do have a video of me having a bad low when I worked at the subway though, which is a public video on YouTube. If you ever wanna have a look at that.
Scott Benner You made a video when you were really low?
Lars Yeah. So the security camera in the subway recorded me having a quite a bad low, and I'm literally throwing the knife around and almost cutting the person working next to me. But...
Scott Benner Well, how old were you when that happened?
Lars That would have been in my twenties.
Scott Benner In your twenties. Were you working there or no?
Lars I was working there. Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. And you just kinda got really low at did you feel it coming on? Do you remember?
Lars No. I didn't. Not at that stage.
Scott Benner No CGMs back then for you?
Lars No. No CGMs.
Scott Benner How about now?
Lars Yes. Omnipod dash and, g six.
Scott Benner Have you come close to knifing anybody since then?
Lars No. No. Why did you have a knife, Lars?
Lars Because I was making someone sabotage in the subway.
Scott Benner Oh, you were you were it didn't have mayonnaise on...
Lars No. I was I I was just cutting the bread and you've obviously been to Subway, you see how bad the bread is and their sandwiches. It was like quarter of the size.
Scott Benner I wanna admit to being confused for a second. I thought you were working down in the Subway, and then I imagined you and then I thought, is there a subway in New Zealand? That was gonna be my next step. And then I heard about the sandwich, I started picking through a little more. So you were literally making a subway sandwich for somebody when it happened.
Lars Yes. You had that little...
Lars That's correct.
Scott Benner Knife with that little flexible blade they used to cut the bread with. Yep. That's the wrong knife to cut bread, by the way. I don't I never understood why they have those at Subway.
Lars I don't know.
Scott Benner Is it true, Lars, that all of the meat is the same? It's just flavored differently, and they call it different stuff.
Lars I don't know about here. I haven't heard that, but I do know that it was actual ham and turkey.
Scott Benner Well, that's good to hear. I wanna say I have no actual knowledge of that. It's just a story that I used to hear going around that it was all kind of the same, like, meat like based thing that was flavored differently. But I'm glad to hear it wasn't. How did you get the video?
Lars I asked for it because I've never seen myself have a low before. So and the bosses were nice and said, yeah. Sure. And grabbed it for me.
Scott Benner What was it like to see yourself like that?
Lars It was interesting because obviously, I'd never seen it because you don't see yourself going low as a diabetic. Right? You just have the low and then other people see it. So...
Scott Benner Did it make you manage any differently? Did it make you be more careful or look into different technology or anything?
Lars No. No. Yeah. Like Because in New Zealand, we were limited to the government funded for most of the medications, but obviously a small population, not everything can be funded.
Scott Benner So Okay. So you get what you get. Do you know what your a one c's and your outcomes were like growing up with diabetes?
Lars They were in the sevens and eights. Okay. And what was your expectation for yourself? Was that what they were telling you to do?
Lars Yeah. I mean, obviously, we can't we can monitor it as well as we can now. So I tried the best I could because the insulin, it was like the Protovane, which was, what, six hours as the long acting Mhmm. Which isn't really a long acting, but that's all we could get, really. And so and then the Actrapid, both made by Novo. And so it was, like, really, as best as you could do without wanting to test, like, 25 times a day. Yeah. But, obviously, you don't want I had dozen team. You don't wanna prick your finger and do any of that, so I tried my best.
Scott Benner Sounds like you did alright, actually.
Lars Yeah. Were you low a lot or not really?
Lars No. Not really. That's awesome. Do you feel lucky when you look back on it?
Lars Well, considering the couple of lows I've had since I moved to Canada, yeah, I'm surprised I didn't have anything worse.
Moving to Canada: Elevation Changes and a Stolen Phone
Scott Benner Okay. How long have you been in Canada?
Lars Since 2014, so twelve years. Twelve years. And did your management change when you got to Canada because the coverage changed, or did you stay with what you were doing?
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Lars It did change because, obviously, I was able to access more and better stuff, but I had a couple of issues moving here, like, a month after moving here, June. I was looking for work, was at one of the LRT stations, like the light rail transit stations in Calgary, and hadn't acclimatized because, obviously, Calgary's a bit higher elevation than all of New Zealand pretty much, or where I lived in New Zealand anyway at sea level. So when I moved, I hadn't acclimatized yet and didn't recognize I was going low because of the higher elevation and had a bad low that EMS had to be called by someone else for, and someone stole my phone because it spilled out of my hand. So...
Scott Benner Can you imagine seeing somebody having a seizure and stealing their phone? With that happening, can I thought Canadians were nice? No?
Lars I did too.
Scott Benner What had you moved there? Was it for a lady?
Lars For my daughter. She moved with her mom.
Scott Benner Oh, okay. And you followed along?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. I see. So you kinda wanted to be closer to her. Wanted to old. I see. So you're divorced?
Lars No. We weren't. Never married to begin with. I gotcha. No. Well, look at you being a good dad. Yeah. Did how did that work out for you, like, in hindsight? Obviously, following your daughter, I imagine, was great, but leaving a country where you grew up and going somewhere else, was it a a reasonable experience?
Lars Yeah. It was it was fine. I mean, I didn't know what to expect. I'd visited once, and it seemed nice. But I moved knowing literally nobody apart from my daughter and her mom, and obviously, we're together at that stage with her mum. But and then I navigated my way round, found an endo, found how to get the insulin, because obviously I could only bring a certain amount, and then went to went on bitter insulin than I had in New Zealand, like, Lantus, and then moved to the pump, the Omnipod. And so...
Scott Benner I'm gonna find out more about that in a second, but I wanna go back to this before it becomes too late. Sure. I I did a little more research about Bob Elliott because I didn't wanna leave anybody with I mean, it's a long time ago, but still wanted it to be clear. So, like, a simple breakdown was that Bob noticed that type one diabetes rates were different in different places and populations, and he started asking what changed in the environment. One idea he had was sunlight vitamin d or maybe kids getting less sun made the immune system more likely to misfire and attack the insulin making cells. But even people close to the work later described vitamin d as, at best, a possible contributing factor, not a full explanation. From there, Elliott's attention seemed to have shifted more towards diet, especially cow's milk exposure, and later the a one beta casein hypothesis. The rough logic there was if migration or lifestyle change raise type one risk, maybe something newly introduced in the diet was part of the trigger. That line of thinking became much more associated with him than the vitamin d did. So his idea really wasn't that vitamin d kinda cures type one diabetes, like, in quotes. You know? It was more like maybe environmental triggers made susceptible kids and vitamin d deficiencies might be a clue. Then as he kept digging, he seems to have concluded that diet was a stronger lead than vitamin d alone. A look back from today, that's about where the evidence still leaves that vitamin d is biologically interesting, but it never turned into a clean, proven explanation for why type one happens. So it sounds like he had some theories, and perfectly honest, like, none of them panned out. But it caught your diabetes early enough that you do not have go into DKA or get sick or anything like that.
Lars That's correct. Yeah. But he was also I don't know if you wanna look up the diabetes cell. So it was, encapsulated pig islet cells that were transplanted.
Scott Benner He got involved in that at some point?
Lars Yeah. He pioneered the use of that.
Scott Benner Wow. Something about that popped up. It says here he was major figure in child health and diabetes related research in New Zealand helped found what became Cure Kids and was associated with the work. Yeah. That's interesting. Oh, wow. Look at that. Lifetime of effort. Hopefully, helps somebody.
Lars Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. When do you switch your management from sorry. Give me the rough date from shots to a pump.
Lars In about what are we about 2015. Okay. About ten years ago. Big difference for you? Yes. Tell me about the experience.
Lars Well, I mean, I the pumps are funded in Alberta, so I'm it was like, cool. I've by this time, I'd met my now wife. I'm I had a low where she had to call EMS, and I just woke up to two ambulance officers standing over me in bed. Those are always the fun ones, aren't they? And then she said, have you ever considered a pump? I hadn't. I'd heard about them. I thought I was managing it okay without one, but I said, yeah. Okay. Let's have a look. So I applied to the Alberta pump program, and we actually went through and did it got approved. And at that stage, was the Eros, not the Omnipod before the dash. Yeah. And because I'd heard horror stories about people pulling their tubing out of their pumps, and I didn't wanna deal with that because I was working and working with computers. I didn't wanna be under a desk and accidentally catch something That sort of thing. So it's like, I'll just go on Omnipod, it'll be fine. And it has been my a one c's come down. My last one was actually 5.9.
Reviewing the Subway Video & Public Advocacy
Scott Benner Wow. Good for you. Congratulations. They didn't let you be around knives anymore after the last incident you had to switch shops?
Lars No. I mean, I that was a temporary role just to...
Scott Benner I imagine. Did your wife let you use the knife in the house? Have you ever showed her the video?
Lars I have. Yes. So it's a public video on YouTube. So, I mean, if anyone wants to see it, they can look for Diabetic Goes Low at Subway.
Scott Benner How many views does it have?
Lars Well, we've we've got it posted from two different channels, so it's got about it's got a couple of 100 views, but, I mean, it could have a few more now. So Diabetic goes low at Subway. Is that what it's called?
Lars Yeah. I shared the link in the chat here if that's easier for you.
Scott Benner Let me see.
Lars There's no sound. So if you ask because there was no sound and the security cameras are there.
Scott Benner I see it here. I'm gonna watch. I'm just gonna watch it. Alright. So there's a guy in a blue shirt. Looks like...
Lars I'm the one in the black behind the counter.
Scott Benner Yep. You're behind the counters. But alright. Lars is putting on his plastic, those little plastic terrible gloves that Subway gives to people. I don't know why they can't have a better glove than that. He's got his hands up. He's fighting with the gloves a little bit. It looks like you've never seen plastic gloves before in your entire life. There's a girl working with you. She's reaching in. Looks like she's getting the sandwich ready too. She's pulling the meat out. I guess you're supposed to get the bread. This is interesting. It's in like stop like a little bit of stop motiony. Yeah. Like it moves and clicks and clicks. And okay. Here comes the bread. Lars is pointing the tray out, picks a loaf.
Scott Benner Oh, he's going for the little wobbly he got the paper down, the loaf's on top. He's got the little wobbly knife, fixes his glove one more time, starts the weird cutting process they must teach you in subway school about how to cut bread. That's gotta be two days worth of training, I would imagine. You're picking at it. Okay. Your arm's flailing a little bit. There's another woman coming into the oh my gosh. Yeah. It's hard to imagine. It's hard to like, the guy you're trying to help is laughing a little.
Lars He's a regular customer. So...
Scott Benner Did he think you were screwing around, I wonder?
Lars He didn't realize.
Scott Benner Your arms get weird to scarecrow you over your head a couple of times. Yep. I do. Like, you reach in a really strange if you told me I was watching a video of somebody with CP trying to cut bread, like, I would probably believe that. Like, you are fumbling with this thing. Like right now, you kinda, like, stop for a second. You're you're grabbing the counter, and the girl tries to help you. You're on the floor now. Okay. Now the people who are being helped are like, oh my god. Why didn't I go to Burger King? And they're they're wait. What's going on? Does she keep making the sandwich?
Lars Customer asked for a new piece of bread, and then the girl who pulled me away made him a fresh sandwich.
Scott Benner But what was happening to you at that point?
Lars I was in the back drinking pop.
Scott Benner Oh, okay. You weren't having a seizure or anything like that?
Lars No. I was still loose a dish. Enough to drink a soda anyway. So That was insane. I mean, that was that was really interesting. Oh my gosh. That girl must be super successful somewhere right now. She's like she watched, like, the craziest thing happen in front of her. She's like, listen. Let me, like, cut up another roll and keep this thing moving. She went right back to it. I was lost. Do you know her Do you remember her name?
Lars No. I don't. It was as you can see from the time, it was a few years ago now. Yeah. A of date in the bottom corner. So...
Scott Benner Yeah. No. It look I mean, it looks like it could have been twenty years ago. Right? Okay. So what makes you come on the podcast? What interests you in being on?
Lars Well, I mean, I've had diabetes more than probably eighty percent of my life. So, I mean, if I can help educate people and help them with my story, why not?
Scott Benner Just wanted to add to it. When you think about things you wish people with diabetes knew, what pops to mind? Like, what do you think are universal truths of it?
Lars That's it's not the be all and the end all. You can have a pretty or a very normal life. My biggest thing is the education of non diabetics as well, because it's still, as we know, it's still misunderstood in movies and in TV series. Doctors, actors will still they're low, so give them insulin. It's like, yeah, that will kill them, but sure. Okay. Like, just the education around it where it can help people have longer fulfilled lives.
Scott Benner Do you wonder what else you're watching on TV that's not correct? Ever think of it that way? You know what I mean?
Lars Yeah. I know. A lot of it is. You know, the one thing you're aware of isn't right. I wonder what the 25 things you're not aware of or how accurate they might be. Yeah. Yeah. So why does that bother you, or or why do you feel like that's important?
Lars Because I mean, I you know, I've had some complications as of people with this condition have for thirty odd years. So I mean but if kids and people can live a pretty normal life with the technology we have now, I can help with that in any way. I want to, like, I've I work in IT, so I like helping people. It's what I do, so...
Scott Benner Yeah. Go back for a second to, like, television and movies and etcetera. Like Yep. Why does it matter if they I mean, I'm sure I have an answer too, but to you, why does it matter that it be correctly portrayed?
Lars Because it means that people will more understand, I suppose, like, diabetics will more understand that if they do see it in the real world and someone's on the ground, they don't go, oh, look for the insulin to give that to them. Like, if it's portrayed correctly, then if people need to help a diabetic in the real world, then they'll know and they may have watched the show they've got it correct, then maybe they'll know how to actually help the person correctly and not potentially...
Scott Benner Not do the opposite thing of what they need?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner What is your experience with large with people ever getting anything right? I don't understand. What what do you think's gonna what do you think is gonna happen here? I understand what you're saying, and I I have the same feeling. So it would be great if everybody understood. I don't know that they remember the wrong thing any more than they would remember the correct thing if it was on TV.
Lars No. I know. Yeah. It's tough.
Scott Benner I mean, but you've uniquely have been in a situation where you've counted on a stranger to kind of know something. But did they ever? I mean, the girl yanked you away from the thing, but she she abandoned you pretty quickly. If she understood diabetes, she would have went in the back with you, don't you think?
Lars I think there was someone else in the back, and the bosses had just stepped out, so they came back pretty soon after. But, like, I think I was probably in the twos bigger than millimoles, I assume, because the I was able to hold a drink enough to actually drink it myself without someone else helping.
Scott Benner Yeah. So Hey. Did you go back to work afterwards?
Lars Yeah.
Scott Benner Kept work?
Lars Once I was back up, I went straight back to work. Yeah. And then the customer the one the male customer came in, and he's saying, I asked if I was okay, and I asked what happened. So And He ate one of those sandwiches every day, that guy?
Lars Yeah. I think so. Or every second day.
Scott Benner He's on that Subway diet? Thought he could lose some weight that way? I wonder.
Lars I didn't talk to him that much, but, I mean, he was a really killer customer, so he was a nice guy. So...
Scott Benner I hope this means something to you. My daughter's friend is a a huge Subway aficionado, and she has a what I would call a rather deep relationship with the guy that makes her sandwich. Like to know them. Yeah. Yes. I feel like he'll be at her wedding one day with the way she talks about him.
Lars Well, the funny thing is you like, when you find a doctor or when you find a dentist or when you find whatever other professional and, you know, like plumber, electrician, if you find one you like, you stick with them because they make things the way you like them. So that's why they're technically called sandwich artists at Subway. They make it in a particular way, and yeah. I had regular customers who liked the way I made their sandwiches, and they didn't want anyone else but me to make them.
Fundraising and the Clinical Definition of a "Cure"
Scott Benner That makes sense, honestly. That really does really make sense. Okay. So you'd like people to be better informed in the public? Yes. What else? Do you have feelings when you see younger people coming up with diabetes or parents with newly diagnosed kids? Like, do you ever have things where you wanna just kinda say, oh, gosh. I wish you knew this?
Lars Yeah. And, I mean, Diabetes Canada's doing a modelling event across the country at the moment. And so from Halifax through to Vancouver, numerous cities in between, and so we're getting to walk down a runway and model our pumps and everything, which is a pretty cool idea. And there's kids from, like, three up to I think, yesterday, we had a like, last year, sorry, we had an 80 year old who was modeling.
Scott Benner Have you been a part of this?
Lars This week, the third year I've done it.
Scott Benner beggars code. Okay. So you just, like, walk a runway at an event? Yes. Yeah. And what kind of crowd is there? Supporters, or do they find a way to get uninitiated in there? How do they do that?
Lars But we find like, we I know there's a couple of people who are like, we didn't have people who like, volunteers who will do, like, the introductions and highs and everything. A lot of people are friends and family of the models themselves. Mhmm. But, like, the tickets are open to anyone who wants to purchase them. So and it's not just in Calgary where I am. It's in, like, Vancouver, Toronto, Halifax, Saskatchewan.
Scott Benner So a fundraiser? Yeah.
Lars It's a fundraiser.
Scott Benner Right. Right.
Lars And the idea behind it is to send kids to diabetes camps, which means that that gives the parents a break and often helps to give the kids a bit more independence, often give the first shot or the first basal bolus themselves.
Scott Benner Meet other people with diabetes. What keeps you involved? Like, you don't have kids with diabetes, so what keeps you involved at this later age? Why do you feel like supporting this is valuable?
Lars Well, I mean, I've had it for thirty years. If I can be, like, an older person and be taken newly diagnosed people can ask me questions, I'm always happy to because I've seen multiple pretty much all the more recent technology anyway, like, physical needles through to the insulin pump. So the technology has advanced us a lot more. I wish I had kind of had the insulin pump and CGM back when I was diagnosed. Blood sugar probably would have been better then, but we probably couldn't have miniaturized enough to be able to do it back in the nineties.
Scott Benner So You said you have some complications now. What are they?
Lars I've had a couple of issues with my eyes, so blood vessels in my eyes and that sort of stuff.
Scott Benner So Have you had had any treatment to it?
Lars Yep. Injections in the eyes. The worst the worst needle ever. Like, I hated those because they don't they don't knock you out. They freeze your eyeball and then jab a needle in the eyeball while you're awake. So all you see is this thing and your peripheral vision coming into your eyeball. It's not fun.
Scott Benner How many times did you have to have the the injection?
Lars I've had it about five or six times.
Scott Benner Did it work?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner So a reversal of your problem, or, did it just stop it?
Lars It stopped it. Yeah. And since my blood sugar and my a one c's come down to a pretty much nondiabetic a one c now, it's, means that I haven't needed anything for the last, like, eighteen months.
Scott Benner Is it just the technology that helped, or have you been able to use, like, a lifetime of experience to apply it on the top of the technology?
Lars I think it's a lifetime of experience, but it's also like, being able to see your blood sugar in real time or close enough to real time anyway on a phone or a mobile device. It means that you can go, okay. This is what my blood sugar is doing. I'm fine for now.
Scott Benner Help you plan better being able to see us, I would imagine. Right? Yep. And you're using Omnipod five now though?
Lars No. I'm still using the Dash.
Scott Benner You're still using the Dash. You're making your own decisions, making changes and everything. How did you find the podcast?
Lars I've heard about it. I'm in a group. I try and give people education from my experience, and someone said, oh, you should apply to be on the podcast.
Scott Benner But Okay. Where were you telling it that somebody saw that?
Lars On Facebook or somewhere.
Scott Benner Do you know what Facebook group?
Lars I've been in so many diabetes ones. I don't remember, to be honest.
Scott Benner Are you in mine?
Lars I'm sorry.
Scott Benner Don't be sorry. Are you in my group?
Lars The Juice Box podcast? Yeah. Yes.
Scott Benner You are. Okay. Yes.
Scott Benner So you find Facebook pretty valuable then?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner Okay. Tell me about that. Why are you in so many different Facebook groups, and what is that doing for you?
Lars Well, it helps me like, if people have questions who are newly diagnosed and I have some experience what they're dealing with, which usually I do, it means that I can provide a bit more experience for them and help them succeed with their control and learning how to be a diabetic looking after themselves with this condition that we all have as diabetics.
Scott Benner Did you have anybody helping you when you were growing up with it?
Lars Mom and dad, kind of. I mean, because I was 13, I pretty much made all the decisions. Mum and dad, obviously, we started to carb count and everything. But after a few years, I once I left high school, I pretty much just did it all myself.
Scott Benner On your own? So if you were having, a seven or eight a one c, back then, that was considered reasonable and good. Right? Like, people would tell you you're doing a good job. Right? Yes. At what point does it become obvious to you that better is is it tied to the technology? Like, does the idea that your a one c could be lower or more stable not arrive in the world until the technology arrives? Was there ever anyone telling you, I know we're just injecting here and this and this, but, you know, you could, I don't know, change your diet or increase your exercise or, you know, give yourself more insulin. Does any of that ever get spoken about?
Lars It does a bit. Yeah. It's just because I mean, there's only so much you can do with some of the older insulins because, obviously, of the length of time they last. They're still running around in your body, delivering the insulin as they need to, but, I mean, it's it was a lot more difficult to actually get good control because we what was it? The ACTRAPID started working, I think it was within half an hour, it was gone within six. I found it difficult anyway to actually work out a good way of managing it because of that. Right? So it proved difficult. And no no CGM, so you didn't know what your blood sugar was doing unless you've done a finger prick. And so it's like, well and I didn't want to be doing that, like trying to learn at school. I don't wanna look different. People knew I was, but didn't wanna be different, so I just tried to do my best so I could without being too different as a teen, so...
Scott Benner What do you think would have changed most drastically about your upbringing if all that technology existed twenty years ago?
Lars I would probably manage it a bit better and be able to keep it more stable, the big high and low swings, which I'm sure I had. I just didn't know I had them because I didn't have a CGM to see them. Right? So...
Scenery, New Zealand Biology, and Living Options
Scott Benner Does it freak you out that lizards that are running all over New Zealand are commonly kept pets in America and other places?
Lars What do you mean, Lizardans?
Scott Benner Like, bearded dragons, for example, aren't they from New Zealand?
Lars No. No.
Scott Benner Are bearded dragons not from New Zealand? Or what about blue tongue skink? Not also not from New Zealand?
Lars I don't know about the blue tongue skink. I know there are skinks in New Zealand, like native ones. Yeah. But remember, New Zealand split off from Gondwanaland so early that both of the birds have gone, okay. There's no predators. Cool. We'll just stop flying.
Scott Benner What kind of pets did you have growing up? Did you have anything?
Lars A cat.
Scott Benner A cat. I just always wonder, like, what it's like to go outside, see something running around in your lawn, and then look into another part of the world and see that people are, like, fanatically keeping them as pets. It would be like if I woke up one day and found out that people in New Zealand were keeping squirrels. I'd be like, that's a weird decision. They're everywhere here. But anyway, sorry. I thought I had something there. I missed. For everyone listening, I apologize. I get it wrong sometimes.
Lars It's all good. Yeah. I mean, if you want to go, New Zealand does have some very beautiful scenery and very different birds to what North America has. So like the kakapo is going which is one of the I think there's about 251 of them left in the world.
Scott Benner Really?
Lars They are going through a baby boom right now. So they don't breed every year. They only breed when a particular tree has a lot of fruit on it or berries on it, and then they produce a lot of chicks.
Scott Benner No kidding. Oh, so their production is attached to when their food is available?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner That's very cool. I I had somebody on once, I think. I'm trying to decide if I have an episode that's named after that bird. Is that possible? I'll have to figure that out later. Okay. When you move so far from home, are your parents older at that point? How is that separating from your sister and your parents?
Lars I was in my early thirties, so my parents were a bit older than I mean, I felt I needed to be in my daughter's life, like I said, and made the decision. I knew my parents would try and talk me out of it, so I didn't tell them until after I'd booked the tickets, had the visa, had everything done and then told them.
Scott Benner Well, that's interesting. I would have made the same decision. I was just wondering how you handle it. It's a pretty far way to move. So Yes. Yeah.
Lars It is. I was confident to be able to find all the medication and the diabetes stuff I needed, so it's like, well, okay. We'll throw caution to the wind and go. So...
Scott Benner That was kind of the rest of my question there was, do you leave with enough to keep you going for a while, or do you plan ahead for how to get signed up to get medication when you get there? Like, how did you make that leap?
Lars I had no plan. I literally the only plan I had was I needed to be close to my daughter. So I lived with 23 kilos of clothes. Sorry. I can't do that conversion, my head to pounds, but that's the standard international flight.
Scott Benner Yeah. About 46, 50 pounds, something like that. Right?
Lars Yep. Yep. And that's that's pretty much all I bought to Canada. So...
Scott Benner Wow. If I asked my wife to leave this house with one suitcase full of clothing and never come back, I don't even know what would happen. We can't seem to go away for four days with one of those suitcases without it being overweight.
Lars Yeah. And then I I had enough insurance to last me I think it was about three or four months.
Scott Benner Okay. And what did you do to, like do you go to, like, an office, a doctor's office to the government? How do you get set up once you get to Canada?
Lars Pretty much had the idea about moving well, at least a year and a half before I actually did. And by that time, I met some Facebook groups and Canadians who were actually able to give me a bit of advice on how to find a doctor and that sort of thing. And so I followed their advice, actually found one, and then I got referred to an endocrinologist and was able to get all the medication.
Scott Benner Isn't that terrific? Seriously, the Internet and being able to just reach out to a group of people and say, I need help. I don't know what to do. Get some advice and pick through it then and and make a decision. It's really fantastic.
Lars Yeah. Hold on a second.
Scott Benner It is. Excuse me. Sorry. Came up here without my drink today. Messing me up. How are we doing? What were your expectations like for this, and how do you feel like this is going so far? And, you know, are we missing anything?
Lars I don't think we're missing anything. I mean, I I've come out of my shell a bit more since moving here, so I've been able to I was probably very introverted in New Zealand since I moved here. I've become a lot more extroverted and well, hence, doing the modeling. I've spoken at a conference, which I never thought I'd do back in New Zealand. So, I mean, I have no issues with how we're doing. So...
Scott Benner Good. Good. What do you think just the experience of being out on your own kinda opened you up?
Lars And and the support from my wife.
Scott Benner Yeah. Since you've been and how long have you been married?
Lars Ten years.
Scott Benner Ten years. Okay. And just the one child from the previous relationship?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner Do you worry about your child getting diabetes?
Lars No. She hasn't had any any potential symptoms or anything. Like, I do a little bit in the back of my mind, but, I mean, I'm literally the only one in my family. No cousins, no aunts, uncles, and I have a big family. I've probably got probably 30 cousins on both mom and dad's side. So...
Scott Benner Yeah. How about that thyroid thing? Is that a problem throughout your family?
Lars No.
Scott Benner No. Just you and your mom? Yes. Do you have symptoms from that, or do you feel like that's pretty well managed?
Lars I feel it's pretty well managed. I'm under the lowest possible dose I can be. So...
Scott Benner Do you ever have, like, brittle nails, lose hair, uneven temper?
Lars A little bit of an uneven temper sometimes. But...
Scott Benner Do you know what your TSH level is when they test your thyroid?
Lars The last one, I just got it done with my a one c. It was well within the normal range.
Scott Benner Do you know what that means though for the number? Because the range is pretty wide. That's why I asked.
Lars I think it was, like, four or something. I'd have to look up the range.
Scott Benner In your own time, obviously, I'm not asking you to do it now. I would tell you to check out episode four thirteen of the podcast, and then see if maybe you don't wish that maybe somebody could manage that number under two.
Lars Two seems low.
Scott Benner Why is that? What do you know about that?
Lars Well, I mean and, yes, I don't know how it is in The US, but I think here in Canada, I think two would be too low. So...
Scott Benner I would ask you to listen to episode four thirteen and see if you didn't change your mind about that.
Lars Okay.
Scott Benner Yeah. So to go over it just briefly, the scale goes from, like, zero to 10 on the the testing, and the green part, you know, is pretty far in the middle. I would tell you that if you have symptoms of hypothyroidism, you know, or any kind of impacts from it and your TSH is above two, it probably indicates that you could use a little more medication. I can pull up a couple of symptoms for you. See if you have any of them. So we went over a couple a second ago, but I'm just gonna go through a list so I don't miss anything. So I'm clicking on stuff. Alright. Tired or low energy?
Lars Yeah. Sometimes.
Scott Benner Feeling cold more than usual? No. Weight gain? No. Dry skin?
Scott Benner Sometimes. Constipation? No pooping? No. Nope.
Scott Benner Hair thinning or hair loss?
Lars Not that I've noticed. So...
Scott Benner You'd see it in the drain. Depression or low mood?
Lars Maybe sometimes. But then, I mean, well, you're dealing with diabetes, so that's kind of common, isn't it? So...
Scott Benner Yeah. Slower thinking, memory trouble, brain fog?
Lars Sometimes, I think.
Scott Benner Muscle aches, weakness, joint stiffness?
Lars No. I don't think so.
Scott Benner You ever have heavy or irregular periods? I'm just kidding, Lars. But no. There's others. Listen. What I would tell you is I talk to a lot of people. And if you're having a few of those symptoms, I would tell you to consider a four TSH as being too high. And then go ahead and take a look at what might happen if they just put that dose up a tiny bit, got you down a little lower.
Lars Sorry. Okay. I was completely wrong.
Scott Benner Okay.
Lars Mine's point eight four.
Scott Benner Oh, Jesus. Well, then we just wasted a lot of time. Yours is fine. You're just a little large. That's okay.
Lars Yeah. I'm...
Scott Benner Sorry. No different than anybody else. So that's fine. Don't be sorry. I'm glad you looked.
Lars Yeah. Well, it's awesome. Well, then well, still other people listening might have heard and and gotten the idea. What do you look forward to with diabetes management? Are you looking forward to trying an algorithm or anything of the sort?
Lars Well, I'm excited about the, like, the stem and islet cell transplant trials happening at the moment. I think they're being and this is just my personal opinion, obviously. I think calling them a queer is too soon to do that Mhmm. Because we don't know what's gonna happen in five years. But, yeah, calling them cures too soon, and I don't think we're going to have a cure for diabetes until we know what causes it.
Scott Benner What would you consider a cure to be? Like, what would the outcome have to be for you to consider yourself cured?
Lars Not have to have anything. Like, no anti rejection drugs. No...
Scott Benner Somebody finds a switch inside and shuts it off, that kind of thing. It's just over.
Lars Pretty much.
Scott Benner Yeah. But would you take the alternative? I mean, I guess you're referring to that Eladon trial right now, the one out of Chicago?
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner Yeah. And so if somebody could inject some stem cells into your liver and give you a fusion every twenty one days, you wouldn't call that cured? What would you call it?
Lars Positive.
Scott Benner Positive? Because yes. Yeah.
Lars Because, to me, it's not a cure because you're still they're still taking anti rejection drugs.
Scott Benner Okay. But you don't have type one diabetes anymore. Well, you do, but you don't have to take insulin anymore.
Lars Yes. But see, is it really a cure though? Because you're still taking the anti rejection drugs. If you stop those, what happens? Not that they're probably going to.
Scott Benner I I understand what you're saying. I'm asking you why do you care? Like, what's the difference? If you don't have to take the insulin anymore, you don't have any of the impacts of high and low blood sugars. I mean, obviously, you've traded one kind of management system for another, but, I mean, would you do it, I guess, is my question. If somebody came up to you and said, hey. Here you go. You can do it. Would you?
Lars Probably not at the moment. Not until there's been further research done.
Scott Benner Because you'd wanna see if it was okay long term. Yes. Let me say this. Pretend that it is. It works fine. It's not gonna hurt you. Blah blah blah. Would you do that? And would you consider that, like, a good outcome, or do you think you'd be irritated that you just were having to do something else?
Lars Potentially, I would do it. I mean, it would make it make life easier, obviously. Mhmm. But, I mean, right now, anyway, with the technology I have, it's pretty easy to manage for me anyway. I'm not having a huge amount of insulin.
Scott Benner Okay. It's interesting to listen to you try to pick through it in your own head because, you know, obviously, I understand what you mean by a cure. Cure would be like, snap your fingers. It doesn't exist anymore. I'm cured. That's that.
Lars Yes.
Scott Benner Alright. I don't think that's happening anytime soon either. And so Yeah. If having some cells injected into your liver and then right now it's an infusion every 21, I don't know if they'll be able to change how that works or not. I'm actually interviewing the doctor, the lead researcher on this in about a week.
Lars Okay.
Scott Benner There you go. Like, once a month, you go into a doctor's office, and they put you on an infusion. And an hour later, walk out. And there's no change. You don't get sick afterwards. You don't feel weird or anything like that. And for the next month, you just do not have to take insulin. You can eat. Everything works the way you expect it to work. And then, I don't know, five years from now, they figure out how to turn that into a an at home injection or a pill or something like that. I'm trying to figure out if that would feel positive to you.
Lars It would. Like, yeah. The whole thing is positive because it's from my way of thinking, it's probably the precursor to a full blown cure. Like, if they keep working along these lines, then I'm sure at some stage we will be able to have a cure.
Scott Benner Something else will come. You won't though. Let's just pretend you get this one and you're done. You don't get another one. So, like, I mean, is that a good way to make it through the rest of your life, do you think? 12 infusions a year, no diabetes? It's just interesting to listen to people after they've lived with it for a while because what I hear from you is that you're like, listen. It's not that big of a deal to have diabetes.
Lars Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it is. Yeah. If you have bad lows and everything. But, I mean, with the technology we have now, and yes, obviously, it's different here than it is in Canada with insurance, and we won't get into all that. But I've been I all myself's funded, so I don't have to worry about the costs of it. Like, everything's covered, I'm on, and so I'm sitting here talking to you with my phone on the desk and looking at my blood sugar and going, okay. It's good. I don't have to worry about it. I can just talk and not not have any of the issues.
Scott Benner Okay. No. I mean, listen. I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I'm just wondering how you feel about it. Okay. You brought that up because you think, what, the people are running around maybe being a little too, what, blase about calling it a cure and stuff like that?
Lars Well, I think it's too soon to call it a cure. Yeah. Yeah. It's a positive step towards one in my opinion, but potentially not. Yeah. Depending on your definition of cure.
Scott Benner Of course.
Lars To me, it's not cure.
Scott Benner Yeah. No. No. No. I hear what you're saying. I would tell you that where it creates a little bit of worry for me would be the idea that people could hear that and think, oh, they're gonna have it cured pretty soon, so I don't really have to take as good care of myself. Yeah. I get a little worried about that. Like, oh, you know, my blood sugar is one eighty five. I'd push it down, but next year, I'm gonna be getting those stem cells, so it'll all be okay. That part gets me. I also would tell you, I don't like the way it feels like it's being used as clickbait by diabetes influencers. I don't like that very much. No. Doing. If you need clicks, I understand. If it's the way you make a living or you're trying to turn it into something, I understand. But by telling people, like, oh my god, I'm cured, or there's a lady that's cured over here, a guy over here that's cured, he has a he. Like, you know, there's ten, twelve of them at this point who are in this study. I'm sure they'll be adding more If they haven't already, But and I don't that's, you know, under 20 people having this experience of, you know, what, 2,000,000 people who have it. So it's not like bubble gum. Can't just get it anywhere. And then getting people excited, and I just think it's I don't know. Like, I don't know if I'm doing a good job explaining what I don't like about it, but...
Lars No. I I yeah. I totally agree because it's still too early in the research into it to say, yes. It's a cure. Because like you said, there's only been ten to twelve people who've had this infusion done. Right. So it's like, well Yeah. And it's positive for them that they've not on insulin anymore and that their body is producing it, but it's like it's still way, way, way, in my opinion, way, way too early to call it anywhere close to a cure because it's they've just come off ejected insulin.
Scott Benner Yeah. Also, if you just take the word cure out of the conversation, it's also not even a prescribed treatment yet.
Lars Exactly.
Scott Benner Yeah. It's a trial. You're not even saying to everybody, forget curing you, but I can shut off your need to take man made insulin for a while. I'll call it that for a second. You know, come on over to the office and grab some. That isn't a day away. You know? I I don't know how far away it is. I'm gonna find out when I talk to the person. But, I mean, my guess would be that if the trial was branded a full on success and the FDA said, absolutely, go ahead and do this, that in itself is gonna take years. And then after that, what? Then years more to get it set up. So, you know, are you telling me maybe ten years from now it'll be okay? You know, if this all works out like that, I pointed out and would continue to point out that I had one of the people on who's had the experience of being through the trial. All sound very positive to me, but, you know, they had only had this process in place for six weeks at that point. And I don't know. I just I'm glad for them, and I think they should tell their story a million percent. I think people should hear it. I really do get worried about that idea of, like, it's happening right now. You know? It's just not the case. No. It's not happening right now.
Lars And we all know how long like, research takes a while. Like, it does. Yeah. That's why it's research. It's not like, oh, look. We can flick a switch, like, light switch, and and here we go. Everyone in the world is is available to them.
Scott Benner There's also an intake questionnaire and a lot of testing that gets done before you even get put in the trial. So my indication there would be that there might have been plenty of people who said, I'd love to be in the trial who got told, well, you're not right for the trial. So...
Lars Exactly. Yeah.
Scott Benner They're trying to keep it very specific to people I think that they imagine it's going to work with, which makes sense to me. When you got this sorted by Advil, Lars, you don't have to take a a questionnaire first and run the risk of the the Advil not being for you. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. So let's get it to the point where, oh, no. I have diabetes. I call the guy, and then, you know, they set me up, bring me in for the I don't know whatever they're gonna do, and then I don't have it anymore. Then that's functional to me. So Yes. Anyway, what else you got here, man? Anything we missed? Anything we didn't talk about? Something I didn't ask you about anything at all?
Lars No. I don't think so.
Scott Benner We did okay? Yeah. We did okay. Your first podcast?
Lars Hopefully, mine was okay. Yeah. Mine first.
Scott Benner Were you nervous at all?
Lars No. Good. Like I said, I've spoken at a conference last year and just spoke off the cuff and was able to speak well. So...
Scott Benner Yeah. No. You're doing a great job. It's not a...
Scott Benner Yeah. It it's just interesting. I don't often get people who don't, like, listen to the podcast, to be on it, which is really nice for me, and I appreciate it. I wish more people would do that. I don't know how to it's hard to get in touch with people who don't know about the podcast. So...
Lars I know about it. I just haven't Yeah. You're busy. Chance to...
Scott Benner You're busy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am.
Lars So...
Scott Benner You got a 17 year old. Is it a daughter? Your 17 year old?
Lars A daughter.
Scott Benner That's a lot of work right there. And, the boys become more work just slightly after that. And, and you're married, and there's a lady who's the mom of your daughter. There's a lot of things going on with you. I would imagine you got a job. You got diabetes, stuff happened. I understand. What do you do for, like, entertainment? Do you have a lot of in your ear entertainment in being in IT or no, you're not able to?
Lars Yeah. I do. I just have to try and keep up with all the advances in IT and AI and quantum computing and everything. So...
Scott Benner What kind of job do you have? What do you what do you do?
Lars I'm a system admin.
Scott Benner Are you using AI very much yet?
Lars For some things, yes. Like, it's not the it still gets it wrong, so don't put all your eggs in the basket and say, yes. AI is perfect. It's not. It will still make mistakes. So Yeah. So just double check it is my advice.
Scott Benner You found some uses for it?
Lars Yes. I found some uses for it. So Very nice. It's good for if you're, like, doing research into a trip and stuff, it's good to just say, hey. If I've done this research, can you confirm that this is good? And there's a yep. Takes a look for it. Yeah. Yeah. Quick answers to questions you have and that sort of thing. So...
Scott Benner I do like asking it to, like, quality check something or, you know, can you fact check this for me? Give me some some backup that I can read and see if I agree with the fact checking, that kind of stuff. I it helps me a lot with my website. I'll say that. And Yeah. You know, that kind of stuff. Like, things I could never have I would have not known how to code on my own. I can make now much easier. Yes. You know, it's been helping me with transcripts and stuff like that. It's been been pretty valuable, honestly. So Yeah. Okay. Alright. Well, Lars, I appreciate you doing this with me very much.
Lars Thank you for the time.
Scott Benner No. It's my pleasure. Do you think you'll ever move back to New Zealand, or do you think you're a Canadian now?
Lars Potentially. Like, I would ideally love to just have endless summers, but because of New Zealand's smaller population, and so I still keep in touch with some of the people I knew in New Zealand. Mhmm. And the insulin here that I'm using, I can't get down there, so I would have to go to a older generation, which I'm not so fond of. So interested in doing oh, that's interesting. Do you think your wife would move?
Lars Yeah. I mean, we would love an endless summers. So...
Scott Benner I would too. Yeah. I hate the cold. I'm done with it. Perfectly honest with you. What part of Canada are you in?
Lars Alberta. So we get minus 40.
Scott Benner Yeah. I know. You gotta leave. That seems wrong to me. Times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Well, I just but get a bunch of insulin, take it with you. See how see how long you make it last. Yeah. Lars, thank you. I really appreciate this, man. It's it's been good talking to you.
Lars No worries. Thanks, Scott.
Scott Benner Yep. Hold on one second for me. Okay? Sure.
Scott Benner This episode was sponsored by Touched by Type one. I want you to go find them on Facebook, Instagram, and give them a follow, and then head to touchedbytype1.org where you're gonna learn all about their programs and resources for people with type one diabetes. I'd like to thank the Eversense three sixty five for sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every fourteen days, you want the Eversense CGM. Eversensecgm.com/juicebox. One year, one c g m.
Scott Benner The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. Learn more about Tandem's newest automated insulin delivery system, Tandem Mobi with Control IQ plus technology at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at juiceboxpodcast.com. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the juice box podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app, like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple Podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend. And if you leave a five star review, oh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card?
Scott Benner Alright. Let's get down to it. You want the management stuff from the podcast. You don't care about all this chitting and chatting with other people. Juiceboxpodcast.com/lists. They are downloadable, easy to read. Every series, every episode, they're all numbered. Makes it super simple for you to go right into that search feature. In your audio app, type juice box one seven nine five to find episode one seven nine five. Juiceboxpodcast.com/lists. If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. Listen. Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go, and stuff like that. And it just I don't know, man. Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? And then I remember because I did one smart thing. I hired Rob at wrongwayrecording.com.