#1769 Top Dog

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Kathleen discusses her 24-year journey using Type 1 tools for Type 2 management. She covers Mounjaro success, evolving tech, and why CGMs now beat alert dogs.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner (0:0) Here we are back together again, friends, for another episode of the Juice Box podcast.

Kathleen (0:15) Okay. (0:16) I'm Kathleen. (0:18) I am a type two diabetic who has been treated as a type one diabetic since 2005.

Scott Benner (0:29) I am here to tell you about Juice Cruise 2026. (0:33) We will be departing from Miami on 06/21/2026 for a seven night trip going to The Caribbean. (0:40) That's right. (0:41) We're gonna leave Miami and then stop at Coco Cay in The Bahamas. (0:45) After that, it's on to Saint Kitts, Saint Thomas, and a beautiful cruise through the Virgin Islands.

Scott Benner (0:51) The first juice cruise was awesome. (0:53) The second one's gonna be bigger, better, and bolder. (0:57) This is your opportunity to relax while making lifelong friends who have type one diabetes. (1:03) Expand your community and your knowledge on juice cruise twenty twenty six. (1:07) Learn more right now at juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise.

Scott Benner (1:12) At that link, you'll also find photographs from the first cruise. (1:17) Nothing you hear on the juice box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:22) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. (1:30) US Med is sponsoring this episode of the juice box podcast, and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from US Med for years. (1:38) You can as well.

Scott Benner (1:40) Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. (1:47) Use the link or the number, get your free benefits check, and get started today with US Med. (1:52) Today's episode is also sponsored by Eversense three sixty five, the only one year wear CGM. (2:00) That's one insertion and one CGM a year. (2:04) One CGM, one year.

Scott Benner (2:06) Not every ten or fourteen days. (2:08) Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. (2:12) The podcast is also sponsored today by Tandem Mobi, the impressively small insulin pump. (2:18) Tandem Mobi features Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus technology. (2:23) It's designed for greater discretion, more freedom, and improved time and range.

Scott Benner (2:27) Learn more and get started today @tandemdiabetes.comslashjuicebox.

Kathleen (2:32) Okay. (2:33) I'm Kathleen. (2:35) I am a type two diabetic who has been treated as a type one diabetic since 2005. (2:45) I was diagnosed in 2002. (2:48) Doing the type two thing didn't work for me, and so I did the type one.

Kathleen (2:53) I'm a dog trainer, and I have had I have two diabetes alert dogs, and I had a third.

Scott Benner (3:02) Oh, well, Kathleen, let's go back to the beginning here. (3:04) So tell me how old you are today.

Kathleen (3:07) 66.

Scott Benner (3:08) 66. (3:09) And how long ago did somebody diagnose you with diabetes?

Kathleen (3:12) I was diagnosed in 2002. (3:15) I was 42

Scott Benner (3:17) Okay.

Kathleen (3:17) Which is the same age that my father was diagnosed.

Scott Benner (3:21) And as a

Kathleen (3:21) type died.

Scott Benner (3:23) Go ahead. (3:23) I'm sorry.

Kathleen (3:24) Okay. (3:24) He died at 48.

Scott Benner (3:26) Oh my gosh.

Kathleen (3:27) I was diagnosed at four zero two, 42 with this thing that killed my father.

Scott Benner (3:33) And

Kathleen (3:35) I am a computer scientist. (3:37) I have taught it for over thirty years. (3:40) So you know what? (3:41) I initially I didn't start using technology for two years, and I didn't go to an endocrinologist for another two. (3:50) And I'm actually the oldest living diabetic blogger.

Scott Benner (3:55) Oh, hold on a second, Kathleen. (3:57) Wait. (3:57) There's too much to unpack here. (3:58) So let's let's start slow. (3:59) Your your dad's diagnosed at 42 type two, but died six years later from diabetes or for something else?

Kathleen (4:06) From diet well, complications of diabetes. (4:09) He had congestive heart failure for three years.

Scott Benner (4:11) Okay. (4:12) And then you're diagnosed at the same age many years later with type two diabetes as well. (4:18) And do you feel like that means, oh gosh, I'll be dead soon when that initially happens to you, or do you not think like that?

Kathleen (4:25) Oh, yeah. (4:26) I did.

Scott Benner (4:27) Oh, okay.

Kathleen (4:27) My mother did. (4:28) Everybody in my family thought I was gonna die like my dad did.

Scott Benner (4:33) Did you think that?

Kathleen (4:35) Yeah.

Scott Benner (4:36) Okay. (4:36) And what did you mean by you didn't touch technology for two years? (4:40) And and also, what did you mean that you're you're being treated like a type one? (4:43) You just mean that you went to injectable insulin?

Kathleen (4:46) Oh, I'm on an insulin pump. (4:48) I'm on the Omnipod five with the Dexcom g seven.

Scott Benner (4:51) Okay.

Kathleen (4:51) I was on loop for a while, but I kept going low, and I didn't like the politics.

Scott Benner (4:56) You didn't like the politics.

Kathleen (4:57) We won't go into there.

Scott Benner (4:59) So okay. (5:01) Taking you back to your diagnosis, though. (5:03) You have a type two diagnosis, and you are you telling me right now you have type two diabetes?

Kathleen (5:07) Well, my endocrinologist is driving me a little bit nuts. (5:12) Now to start with, I'm at least three generation diabetes. (5:16) My grand my father's parents also died of complications of diabetes. (5:21) So both his parents died of complications of diabetes. (5:24) Okay.

Kathleen (5:25) And then my mother also has diabetes.

Scott Benner (5:27) Type two.

Kathleen (5:28) But I type two. (5:30) And they gave me metformin. (5:33) I was a classroom teacher at the time, high school. (5:37) Fortunately, the restroom was three doors away, but you can't just leave a group of high school students to go to the restroom. (5:45) And especially five or six or seven times a day.

Kathleen (5:49) You can't do that.

Scott Benner (5:50) Wow.

Kathleen (5:50) And so I had to go to another method. (5:56) And my cousin at the time was a teaching pharmacist, and she worked with the VA, and she had a lot of people on insulin. (6:07) And she said, why don't you just go on insulin? (6:10) You're not gonna have the side effects. (6:11) So I went to my primary care physician and said, you know, this medication isn't working for me.

Kathleen (6:17) Here's my co who my cousin is. (6:19) She's published. (6:22) She wants she suggested to go on insulin. (6:24) He says, great. (6:25) That's the gold standard.

Kathleen (6:27) And he hooked me up with, oh my god. (6:29) Don't do this. (6:31) Lily, thirty seventy insulin. (6:34) It was awful because you have to time your meals around it, and it just doesn't work well. (6:39) And it certainly didn't work well for me.

Kathleen (6:40) So I'm researching stuff, and I had been blogging, and I still have my blog's still out there.

Scott Benner (6:46) Well, Kathleen, are you telling me that initially he gave you something, like, similar to regular Miles per hour or something like that?

Kathleen (6:53) Well, it was they still make it. (6:55) It's Lily's $30.70 or $70.30. (6:59) $70.70 70.

Scott Benner (7:01) Okay. (7:01) Because when you said 7, I didn't so $70.30 they started you with?

Kathleen (7:05) Yeah. (7:06) They Okay. (7:06) The first insulin I was on was seventy thirty. (7:09) So I'm struggling with this, gaining weight, and working out, and passing out, and it's just lovely. (7:16) And so I tell him all the problems I'm having, and he says, you're a technologist.

Kathleen (7:23) Go research insulin pumps. (7:26) So Medtronic was not interested in dealing with the type two at all, but Animas was. (7:33) So I went on the Animas pump, and things went a whole lot better. (7:39) And was able to work out, was able to teach, was able to do everything I needed to do on the Animus pump. (7:47) Mhmm.

Kathleen (7:47) And I was on it for I was on several permutations in the Animus pump. (7:52) I did go to Medtronic for a while because that's all my insurance would cover, and Medtronic still didn't like it. (8:00) And they had started doing the an automated stuff, and I lost my endocrinologist tired, and he switched me to another endocrinologist. (8:12) My insurance didn't wanna cover him. (8:15) It was a mess.

Kathleen (8:16) So And then I

Scott Benner (8:17) Let me make sure I'm understanding because you're going quickly, and we're jumping through. (8:22) Mhmm. (8:22) The metformin, lot of pooping can't do that. (8:25) So somebody says, try insulin, but they put you on seventy thirty, which is that premix. (8:30) It's like, you know, it's 70%, like, long acting, 30% short acting, and then you've kinda gotta, like, time your food around it.

Scott Benner (8:39) That doesn't work. (8:40) You're getting low. (8:40) You're passing out. (8:41) Bad stuff's happening there. (8:42) Yep.

Scott Benner (8:43) And this is all happening through a GP. (8:45) That GP says, hey. (8:46) You understand technology. (8:48) Why don't you look into an insulin pump? (8:49) You get yourself an insulin pump.

Scott Benner (8:50) Things get better. (8:51) How long is that process from, I have diabetes, I poop in myself, I've got an insulin pump. (8:57) How long does it take you to get to that pump?

Kathleen (8:59) Two years.

Scott Benner (9:00) Two years. (9:01) Okay. (9:01) And then you're 44 at that point? (9:04) Right. (9:05) Okay.

Scott Benner (9:06) And do you ever get checked? (9:07) Like, do they ever do a c peptide on you or anything like that?

Kathleen (9:11) Yes. (9:12) And they said I was type two.

Scott Benner (9:16) Okay. (9:17) Type two. (9:17) But you're type two, but you have a a pretty big insulin need, so better just to do it this way.

Kathleen (9:23) Now Right. (9:24) I was I was doing about eighty to a hundred units a day.

Scott Benner (9:28) Okay. (9:30) And that's been for a long time now. (9:32) You've been you've been managing like that?

Kathleen (9:34) Yeah.

Scott Benner (9:35) Okay. (9:35) In the last handful of years, have they given you anything else? (9:41) Have they did they try to get you back on metformin or do anything to try to get your insulin needs lower?

Kathleen (9:47) Yeah. (9:49) Now the endocrinologist knows that I don't tolerate metformin, and so she doesn't ask me to put she didn't ask me to go on to that. (10:00) Now I have a male endocrinologist, and he's never brought it up either. (10:06) They do have me on Farxiga. (10:09) I've actually been on the doctor that disappeared, my insurance wouldn't cover.

Kathleen (10:16) He had me on Victoza, and that helped a lot because after with being on insulin for so long and on I started getting a low unawareness. (10:30) And I've been on all of the CGMs from the first Dexcom, and they weren't great.

Scott Benner (10:39) In the beginning?

Kathleen (10:40) And yeah. (10:42) They weren't great. (10:44) And so I've been managing all this time, and a friend of mine gave me a little beagle, and her name was Sweet Temptation. (10:55) Hess just heard Sweet Temptation. (10:57) And I called her dulce because we had some dulce in my class.

Kathleen (11:02) And such dog was every time someone gives me a a dog or beagle, they give me a worse one than the one before. (11:10) She's bouncing off the walls. (11:11) And one day I said, Dulce, you need a job. (11:16) And it just hit me that I've been training dogs forever. (11:23) And I had trained drug dogs.

Kathleen (11:25) Why couldn't I train a dog to recognize my looks? (11:30) So I researched it, and I did it. (11:34) And my endocrinologist at the time, this is the one that retired, he fell in love with her, and he liked corgis. (11:47) And so he wrote a letter, and she started going to school with me. (11:51) You know, it's so ironic that she had a sweet face and the breeder named her sweet temptation, and I named her Dulce.

Kathleen (11:59) You know, logically, she should be a diabetes alert dog, and she was really good at it. (12:05) She always told me way before the Dexcom did I've always been on Dexcoms. (12:12) And she went everywhere with me, and she was tiny. (12:17) She was 15 pounds beagle, and she was perfect. (12:22) In fact, one night, I went to the gym without her.

Kathleen (12:26) And the next day, they said, don't you ever come to this gym again without the dog.

Scott Benner (12:31) Did they miss the dog, or they were afraid you were gonna get low?

Kathleen (12:34) I think I went low. (12:35) Because I have a friend who is a dog trainer, and we would go to the dog show where she lives. (12:44) And we go out to dinner with her, and she would go low, and she would deny that she'd ever go low. (12:51) She did not remember that she had gone low. (12:55) So that makes you wonder when you see somebody else do that.

Kathleen (12:58) How many times have you gone low and you didn't know it?

Scott Benner (13:00) Happens to you maybe. (13:01) The Victoza, are you still on that?

Kathleen (13:04) No. (13:04) I'm on Mounjaro now. (13:06) That's a whole fun story to that in itself.

Scott Benner (13:08) I mean, it just makes a ton of sense for you to be on that. (13:11) So how long did they leave you on the Victoza for? (13:15) When did you switch over to the GLP with Mounjaro? (13:21) Let's talk about the Tandem Mobi insulin pump from today's sponsor, Tandem Diabetes Care. (13:26) Their newest algorithm, Control IQ plus technology and the new Tandem Mobi pump offer you unique opportunities to have better control.

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Kathleen (15:50) That that's a long story. (15:52) So I was on Victoza. (15:54) I don't remember exactly how long, but that gave me my, low awareness back. (16:00) And it controlled my blood sugar, but it didn't help me lose weight.

Scott Benner (16:04) Okay.

Kathleen (16:05) And so when Ozempic came out by a different endocrinologist, this is a female only female one, she put me on Ozempic. (16:16) Mhmm. (16:16) And I gained weight on Ozempic. (16:21) Isn't that crazy?

Scott Benner (16:22) Can I ask you, do you think it's diet related, exercise? (16:25) What what do you

Kathleen (16:26) It's two things. (16:28) It's sleep apnea, and I have a binge eating disorder.

Scott Benner (16:33) Okay.

Kathleen (16:34) And so it's those two things because teaching high school is kinda stressful.

Scott Benner (16:39) I don't

Kathleen (16:40) know if you've ever figured that out or anybody else has.

Scott Benner (16:42) I was very nice to those high school teachers. (16:44) I don't know what you're talking about.

Kathleen (16:50) I was actually really good with all the die I only had two diabetic in my 25 of teaching public school, and I only had two diabetics in my classroom. (17:01) And I was really good to them. (17:03) They could keep whatever they wanted in my room. (17:05) Everybody I had to teach computer science. (17:08) I had have room for 28 computers.

Kathleen (17:10) I had storage. (17:12) So if you wanted to store your lacrosse equipment in my room, go right ahead. (17:17) If you want to store snacks and stuff, if you wanna put something in my refrigerator, go right ahead, but you gotta ask me because it's locked.

Scott Benner (17:25) Tell me something. (17:26) When you go on the Ozempic, you said you gained weight. (17:28) What was the dose of Ozempic they gave you?

Kathleen (17:31) Well, I could I I don't remember what the dosage on Ozempic is, but I could never get a therapeutic dose. (17:37) The pharmacist the pharmacy would never let me was never able to get me a higher dose.

Scott Benner (17:45) Because why?

Kathleen (17:47) Oh, there was an Ozempic shortage.

Scott Benner (17:49) Because of the shortage.

Kathleen (17:50) Okay. (17:50) So you were using it, but of the shortage.

Scott Benner (17:52) You were using it, but you weren't using enough?

Kathleen (17:55) I was not I never could never get enough.

Scott Benner (17:57) Okay.

Kathleen (17:58) Because they I think I was only on the second dose. (18:01) They could get you you know, you you try to rate up, and I think I was only on the second dose of the Ozempic. (18:09) Mhmm. (18:09) And every time we tried to increase it, the pharmacy literally couldn't get it and had to give me the other dose. (18:17) So that was infuriating that so many people were getting it, and I couldn't.

Kathleen (18:22) But my doctor all along had wanted me on Montero, but my insurance wouldn't cover it. (18:27) Well, when I turned 65, it was covered. (18:31) Mhmm. (18:31) The insurance changed. (18:34) And not a lot, but it changed, and everything's covered with my insurance

Scott Benner (18:39) Okay.

Kathleen (18:39) Right now. (18:40) I mean, literally everything. (18:41) I was looking up some things today, and I can get a Medtronic pump through the pharmacy.

Scott Benner (18:46) Awesome. (18:46) Well, okay. (18:47) So how long have you been on the Mounjaro then?

Kathleen (18:50) I've been on Mounjaro for two years.

Scott Benner (18:52) Okay. (18:52) Oh, okay.

Kathleen (18:53) And I am at the lowest weight I've ever been. (18:55) So my highest weight and this drives me nuts. (18:58) At my highest weight, I weighed three hundred and twenty pounds, and I was running three dogs in agility. (19:04) And that's about 40,000 steps a day.

Scott Benner (19:08) Mhmm. (19:09) Three hundred and twenty pounds. (19:10) How tall?

Kathleen (19:11) Five four.

Scott Benner (19:12) Five four?

Kathleen (19:12) Five three.

Scott Benner (19:13) Okay. (19:13) And so I mean, significantly overweight.

Kathleen (19:17) Oh, god. (19:17) Yes.

Scott Benner (19:17) Yeah. (19:18) Yeah. (19:18) Okay. (19:19) You go on two years ago at three twenty. (19:22) Can you tell me what you weigh now?

Kathleen (19:24) Well, I wasn't at three twenty then. (19:26) I had a lap band done about twelve years ago.

Scott Benner (19:30) Okay.

Kathleen (19:31) And that was that was not and that was not good. (19:35) It it helped. (19:37) And my set point where my body wants to be down with the LAP BAND is two hundred and sixty. (19:43) And, oh, what did they tell you about the LAP BAND? (19:46) You'll lose 60 pounds on it.

Kathleen (19:48) So I've been stuck at two sixty for a lot while. (19:52) I'll go on Chitty Craig, or I'll do there was something called Profile, which honestly was the no food diet. (20:01) It was low no carb, low fat, low protein. (20:07) I mean, literally, no food diet.

Scott Benner (20:09) Kathleen, tell me And What's your dose of Mounjaro?

Kathleen (20:14) Twelve point five.

Scott Benner (20:14) You're at twelve point five. (20:16) And you are you I mean, listen. (20:19) Are you eating through it? (20:20) Are you able to get calories in even though you're on it? (20:25) When you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, is the first thing you think about, I love that I have to change it all the time.

Scott Benner (20:32) I love the warm up period every time I have to change it. (20:35) I love that when I bump into a door frame, sometimes it gets ripped off. (20:39) I love that the adhesive kinda gets mushy sometimes when I sweat and falls off. (20:43) No. (20:43) These are not the things that you love about a CGM.

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Scott Benner (21:24) One year, one CGM.

Kathleen (21:26) Oh, yeah. (21:28) So right now, I'm at just below two twenty, and this is the lowest I've weighed probably since I was diabetic.

Scott Benner (21:38) Okay.

Kathleen (21:39) And I go to a big gym. (21:42) I go to a lifetime. (21:43) It's a huge gym. (21:45) Everybody that works there knows my name. (21:48) Everybody who goes to the and I've been there since it opened almost two years ago.

Kathleen (21:54) Someone on the way out that works there says, do you live here? (21:58) And I said, yeah. (21:59) I do. (22:00) And I go to the gym six days a week. (22:03) Since I've been teaching, I've gone to a gym, and I have worked out.

Kathleen (22:08) Now there have been times that teaching got a little too busy, and I missed weeks, But I've always had a gym membership. (22:15) I've always worked out. (22:16) I mean, I've ran dog agility with three dogs. (22:20) So at three hundred and twenty pounds. (22:23) And so I'm athletic.

Kathleen (22:26) It's just a lot of me. (22:28) And I've been doing Arnold Schwarzenegger's pump club for a hundred and thirteen weeks. (22:35) I finished a 113 yesterday.

Scott Benner (22:37) Amazing. (22:38) But you've lost a 100 pounds in two years.

Kathleen (22:40) No. (22:41) I started when they put me on I was

Scott Benner (22:43) From the lap band till now?

Kathleen (22:44) I lost 60 pounds from the lap band.

Scott Benner (22:47) Okay. (22:47) Then another 40 from the Monjaro.

Kathleen (22:49) Then I've lost another 40 on Monjaro.

Scott Benner (22:51) And that's been two years you've been on that?

Kathleen (22:54) Yeah.

Scott Benner (22:55) And so but tell me in the course of a day, do you know how many calories you're taking in daily?

Kathleen (23:01) No. (23:02) I use Arnold's FUBAR diet, and I never meet any of his targets. (23:08) I don't eat enough protein according to him. (23:11) I don't eat enough carbs according to him. (23:14) I don't eat enough fat.

Scott Benner (23:15) Now listen. (23:16) He had a pretty massive heart attack in his fifties. (23:18) So

Kathleen (23:19) I'm actually doing the exact same workout he does today, and it is six days a week. (23:28) Right now, I'm at five sets of 20 reps, six exercises. (23:34) I get in. (23:35) I get out.

Scott Benner (23:35) Wait. (23:36) But you're doing those exercises six days a week. (23:38) You're on 12 and a half of Mounjaro, and you tell me that seven days will go by and your weight won't change?

Kathleen (23:44) I'm losing a pound or two a month Okay. (23:48) According to my which is okay. (23:51) I can live with that.

Scott Benner (23:52) Yeah.

Kathleen (23:52) This is what's so much fun. (23:54) My endocrinologist is like, oh, this is great. (23:57) You're doing great. (23:58) Just keep doing what you're doing. (24:00) Do you have food noise?

Kathleen (24:01) Do you wanna go up on the Montreal? (24:03) And I'm like, no. (24:04) I don't have food noise. (24:05) I don't eat and all this other stuff. (24:09) And then a week later, I go to my primary care physician.

Kathleen (24:14) You're not losing enough weight. (24:17) And I'm like, please people. (24:20) Get on the same page. (24:22) And I like the endocrinologist. (24:24) Well, I like the endocrinologist page better than I do my primary care physician.

Scott Benner (24:29) Well well, listen. (24:30) If a year from now, you're 24 lighter than you are today, I think that's fantastic. (24:37) I also why would you not move up to the 15 on the Mounjaro?

Kathleen (24:41) I don't need it. (24:42) I'm not eating enough food as it is. (24:44) Okay. (24:45) Okay. (24:46) So I there was there was a diagnosis in there you kinda missed.

Kathleen (24:51) Sleep apnea.

Scott Benner (24:53) That hasn't gotten any better with the 100 pounds going?

Kathleen (24:56) Oh, no. (24:57) Because of the reason I have sleep apnea.

Scott Benner (25:01) Which is?

Kathleen (25:01) When I was 20, I got hit by a car.

Scott Benner (25:06) In the mouth?

Kathleen (25:07) I went through his windshield.

Scott Benner (25:08) Oh my god. (25:09) Oh, tell me more. (25:10) Were you were were you walking?

Kathleen (25:11) So no. (25:13) I was riding a bike. (25:14) So and then this was they hadn't even thought about e bikes yet. (25:18) But but they also didn't think about helmets. (25:20) So, anyway, when I was in college, I lived several miles from campus, and I had a car, but gas was more expensive than it is right now, literally.

Kathleen (25:31) And because I just paid $1.99 for gas the other day. (25:35) And I was paying 3 to $4 a gallon back then, and that car had no fuel efficiency. (25:41) No car did. (25:42) So I was running a bike everywhere. (25:44) And I even rode bike from Hattiesburg to Jackson and back on a weekend.

Kathleen (25:49) I'm drive riding my bike home one day, and a car hits me, and I go through his windshield. (25:55) I broke my jaw. (25:56) But there wasn't anything at the time that they I'm not even sure they knew I broke my jaw for another year, but there was nothing they could do to fix it. (26:04) But they also didn't realize I had sleep apnea. (26:08) And I wasn't diagnosed with sleep apnea until I was teaching math because I'd fall asleep while I was waiting for the kids to give me the answer.

Scott Benner (26:20) I was Listen. (26:20) I used to fall asleep in math class too. (26:22) So

Kathleen (26:23) No. (26:23) I was standing at a board.

Scott Benner (26:25) Oh. (26:26) You know? (26:26) That's different. (26:27) I don't know if I could have done it standing

Kathleen (26:28) up. (26:28) I was a teacher standing at the board writing a problem and waiting for the heads to come up with an answer and I'd fall asleep.

Scott Benner (26:37) No. (26:37) That's a different skill. (26:38) I don't know if I have that one.

Kathleen (26:39) Well, it's not a skill. (26:40) Let me tell you. (26:40) It's not something you wanna do.

Scott Benner (26:42) Yeah.

Kathleen (26:42) Yeah. (26:42) And I I mean, I would wake up fairly quickly, but I'd also fall asleep at lights driving. (26:48) So that was no fun. (26:49) So I got into him. (26:52) I still see that doctor, but and he thinks I'll always have sleep apnea because of the broken jaw, and I drive dentist crazy because of the jaw.

Kathleen (27:00) So that's a lot of the weight problems is I've been really struggling with sleep lately, and I've been working hard at that, and I do see a specialist.

Scott Benner (27:12) Kathleen, do have ADHD?

Kathleen (27:13) I don't think so.

Scott Benner (27:14) No? (27:14) Anything else going on? (27:16) Like, any other thing in your life happening of medical stuff besides this? (27:22) No. (27:22) No.

Scott Benner (27:23) Okay. (27:24) Alright. (27:24) So you're doing the exercise. (27:25) You're losing the weight. (27:26) You're doing the thing.

Scott Benner (27:27) Can I pivot for a second? (27:28) Before we started recording, you said, I've known about you for twenty years. (27:32) What did you mean by that?

Kathleen (27:34) Well, I'm the first living diabetic blogger.

Scott Benner (27:38) So you were blogging twenty years ago?

Kathleen (27:41) Well, no.

Scott Benner (27:42) No? (27:43) How long ago?

Kathleen (27:43) I was blogging in 2004.

Scott Benner (27:47) 2004. (27:48) And you were writing a type two blog?

Kathleen (27:49) Yeah.

Scott Benner (27:50) Yeah.

Kathleen (27:51) And it's still there.

Scott Benner (27:52) Is it? (27:53) What's it called?

Kathleen (27:53) I still post it. (27:55) Well, it's kweaver.org, kweaver.org.

Scott Benner (27:59) Okay. (28:00) Nice. (28:00) You knew me as a blogger?

Kathleen (28:03) Yeah. (28:03) Oh. (28:04) I've read your book.

Scott Benner (28:05) Have you really? (28:06) Thank you.

Kathleen (28:07) Yeah. (28:08) I bought a copy of it and read it.

Scott Benner (28:10) It's very nice of you. (28:10) I appreciate that.

Kathleen (28:11) I think I put I think I put it in the school library.

Scott Benner (28:14) Oh, that's

Kathleen (28:16) Anytime I read something that's kind of interesting and is appropriate for teenagers when I get done with it, I put I would put it in a school library.

Scott Benner (28:25) Yeah. (28:26) Oh, yeah. (28:27) Here's your blog. (28:28) Look at that. (28:28) I'm looking at your blog.

Kathleen (28:30) Cool. (28:30) Yeah. (28:31) There's some other blogs that I kinda I have to have a technology blog link to it. (28:36) And

Scott Benner (28:37) I see.

Kathleen (28:37) Anytime I get into a problem, I document it so I can go back and don't have to research it again.

Scott Benner (28:43) Figure it again.

Kathleen (28:44) And then I do some dog training stuff every once in a while.

Scott Benner (28:47) Nice. (28:47) Oh, that's really cool. (28:48) Wow. (28:49) So you've been blogging forever. (28:50) What made you start doing that?

Scott Benner (28:52) I mean, type two blogging was not common.

Kathleen (28:55) Well, it never was. (28:56) Yeah. (28:57) When I was researching diabetes, I ran across the doctor who Cantor. (29:03) Mhmm. (29:04) Robert Cantor.

Kathleen (29:06) I ran across his blog when I was researching insulin pumps, and I started when I was researching insulin pumps, I kinda dived into the medical blogging world. (29:17) There was a pediatrician over in Fort Worth that was blogging. (29:23) And then did you know the story of the flea?

Scott Benner (29:25) The flea?

Kathleen (29:27) Yeah. (29:27) He was a pediatrician.

Scott Benner (29:29) Oh, I thought he was a

Kathleen (29:29) guy that played his stuff. (29:31) No. (29:32) He he was a pediatrician, and he blocked us the flea. (29:35) And his practice got sued because they killed a diabetic child.

Scott Benner (29:40) His practice got sued? (29:41) Oh, jeez. (29:42) I thought you meant the guitar player from Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Kathleen (29:45) No. (29:46) No. (29:46) This was before Red Hot Chili Peppers, I think.

Scott Benner (29:49) Really? (29:50) That's crazy.

Kathleen (29:51) So there was a guy there was a pediatrician that blogged us the flea, and his practice got sued because one of their patients was an undiagnosed diabetic, and he is in court. (30:08) And the defense attorney asked him if he was the flea, and he said he had to say yes. (30:14) He couldn't lie. (30:16) And they immediately won the course and went the the case. (30:20) And the problem was is this this fancy pediatrician clinic had all seen these kids' labs and nobody ran a blood sugar.

Scott Benner (30:29) I'm trying to find anything about this online. (30:31) Hold on a second. (30:32) So the flea the flea was a was a, I don't know, a diabetologist? (30:41) He was an endo?

Kathleen (30:42) No. (30:43) He was a pit pediatrician. (30:44) It was a pediatrician practice that missed this type one diagnosis, and the kid died.

Scott Benner (30:51) I don't think you can sue people for that, can you?

Kathleen (30:54) Well, they did, they won because he had been blogging about the court case.

Scott Benner (30:58) Oh, crazy.

Kathleen (31:01) Yeah.

Scott Benner (31:02) The mid twenty a Boston pediatrician, Robert Lindeman, logged under the pseudonym flea. (31:08) He wrote candidly online about medical topics eventually about his own medical malpractice trial involving the death of a diabetic child. (31:14) During the trial, opposing counsel exposed him as the flea.

Kathleen (31:18) Mhmm. (31:19) And that's when they lost the case.

Scott Benner (31:21) How about that? (31:22) The story of the flea is often mentioned in legal and blogging circles as a cautionary tale about physicians blogging and anonymity. (31:28) How about that? (31:29) Oh, that's interesting. (31:31) But why did you tell me about that?

Scott Benner (31:32) I'm sorry. (31:32) I got lost in what it was and forgot

Kathleen (31:34) what Because all of those medical blocks is what got me

Scott Benner (31:40) Thinking about it.

Kathleen (31:40) Blogging about type two diabetes.

Scott Benner (31:42) Okay.

Kathleen (31:43) And if you you go back, I mean, there's posts from 2005 because I'm a computer scientist. (31:50) Anytime I do research, I sit down and write it down, and it was really handy to put it in a blog. (31:56) So like I said, it I mean, that's part of being a computer scientist. (32:00) Haven't took bachelor's degree in computer science. (32:02) I have a master's degree on how to teach it.

Kathleen (32:05) And that's part of being a computer scientist is that you write down I mean, write down what you did.

Scott Benner (32:10) Yeah. (32:10) You document it.

Kathleen (32:11) If you don't write it down, you didn't do it.

Scott Benner (32:13) Do you think the blog helped you? (32:15) Do you know how many readers it had, or was it something that was more like a I don't know. (32:19) Just a journal for yourself?

Kathleen (32:20) Well, it was mostly a journal for myself, and I figured that, you know, if anybody found it, they wouldn't have to go down the same rabbit holes I did. (32:29) Mhmm. (32:30) And so I was blogging anonymously. (32:33) My name wasn't in my I don't remember. (32:38) Oh, I used TypePad.

Scott Benner (32:39) Are you blog like a dork, Kathleen? (32:41) You're just over there coding yourself.

Kathleen (32:43) Excuse me. (32:44) I'm not a dork. (32:45) I'm a nerd. (32:46) Nerds make money being nerdy. (32:50) Torks don't.

Kathleen (32:50) That was what I always told my student. (32:54) I am a nerd. (32:54) In fact, the government knows I'm a nerd because my ham radio plate is a E5TN teaches nerds.

Scott Benner (33:05) Well, I looked a little bit here. (33:07) It says kweaver.org host post from Kathleen Weaver. (33:10) It's, and one of her entries discusses how she developed type two diabetes after under undiagnosed sleep apnea from a head injury. (33:18) Her writing is personal reflective rather than dedicated advice. (33:22) It's part memoir diary style content.

Scott Benner (33:24) Does that seem,

Kathleen (33:25) Is that what AI told you?

Scott Benner (33:27) That's what AI told me about you.

Kathleen (33:29) Okay.

Scott Benner (33:29) That's not bad. (33:30) Do you agree with AI?

Kathleen (33:32) Yeah. (33:32) That's pretty close to But yeah.

Scott Benner (33:35) Weird to hear yourself synopsized like that.

Kathleen (33:37) I was outed by it was an online newspaper for oh, what's the radio service that probably Trump shut down that we used to propagandize Europe and all?

Scott Benner (33:52) I mean, that's a lot of political stuff I'm not sure about. (33:55) But do you mean NPR?

Kathleen (33:56) No. (33:56) No? (33:57) It's different than NPR.

Scott Benner (33:59) I don't know. (33:59) But you were But

Kathleen (34:00) NPR is left and what I'm thinking about is government. (34:05) And one of the to save money, somebody shut it down and probably Elon.

Scott Benner (34:09) I have no idea. (34:10) What what are you saying to me though? (34:11) How can you be outed? (34:12) Were you listen. (34:13) In fairness, you're writing a blog.

Scott Benner (34:14) Not a lot of people are reading. (34:15) Right? (34:16) So, like, how do

Kathleen (34:17) you Well, apparently, somebody did because there was was an article. (34:21) I got a phone call at school. (34:24) They left a message and you know, because that's how you call teachers is you leave a message with the front office. (34:29) Mhmm. (34:29) And even though we had cell phones, he didn't know my cell phone number.

Kathleen (34:33) We had cell phones real easy early because it was easier to give us cheap cell phones. (34:37) So that's a whole fun story. (34:39) It was easier to give us cheap cell phones than it was to put landlines in our room, and most of the the I'm in North Texas, and most of the school districts did that for people. (34:48) It was easier to give us a cell phone than it was to put a landline in our room. (34:52) There's this radio service.

Kathleen (34:54) It's like in Europe and all that says nice things about America, and they found my blog, and they wrote an article about it. (35:03) And they called me up at school to find out well, Weaver's a pretty common last name. (35:09) Okay. (35:10) And I just had I've never referred to myself in by my name. (35:14) But, anyway, they found me, and they wrote an article about me.

Kathleen (35:17) So I've I've gotten some publicity. (35:21) I've gotten some money for the blog every few years. (35:25) I haven't in a while. (35:26) Yeah. (35:27) But you know?

Scott Benner (35:28) How'd you get paid to blog? (35:29) I don't think I ever made a nickel blogging.

Kathleen (35:31) AstraZeneca put any ad on there.

Scott Benner (35:34) Really? (35:35) Bastards. (35:36) Nobody called me.

Kathleen (35:37) Well, they didn't call me. (35:38) They emailed me. (35:38) Did you read all your emails?

Scott Benner (35:40) You're telling me I've there's a treasure trove of fifteen year old emails in there that I haven't found?

Kathleen (35:47) Apparently. (35:48) Because that's how I got mine as they emailed me. (35:51) Yeah. (35:51) I would get ads every once in a while. (35:53) I never, you know, pursued it because, you know, the the technology blog is existing too.

Kathleen (36:01) And no one ever wanted to advertise on it, but, you know, like I said, anytime I research something, I put it there. (36:09) So if somebody does a search, they'll find it.

Scott Benner (36:11) Have you ever heard from people that read your blog? (36:14) Or Oh,

Kathleen (36:15) yeah. (36:15) Yeah. (36:15) Diabetes Mind and I corresponded in email quite a bit. (36:20) I was several years before her, and I gave her some advice, and I told her how some of the technology worked.

Scott Benner (36:28) That's Amy. (36:29) Right?

Kathleen (36:29) Yeah. (36:30) Amy.

Scott Benner (36:31) She sold that, I think, to Healthline.

Kathleen (36:33) Yes. (36:33) She did. (36:34) She did. (36:34) Yeah. (36:35) No one wanted to buy my blog.

Kathleen (36:39) I just wanna put ads on it.

Scott Benner (36:40) Somebody offered to buy my podcast once.

Kathleen (36:43) Yeah. (36:44) You I've heard that on your podcast.

Scott Benner (36:46) I think I did the right thing saying that.

Kathleen (36:48) Yeah. (36:48) I've you're one of the die diabetes Scott. (36:52) So, like, Scott Johnson and Scott oh, he's on LinkedIn all the time and does politics.

Scott Benner (36:57) Shermel. (36:58) Shermel. (36:58) He's yeah. (36:59) He's been on the show.

Kathleen (37:00) Yeah. (37:01) I know.

Scott Benner (37:01) Yeah. (37:01) Scott Johnson works for Blue Circle Health now.

Kathleen (37:04) Right. (37:05) Yeah. (37:05) And then yeah. (37:07) And this is see, I knew them. (37:09) I was blogging before any of them, and I knew them when, you know, when they started their blogs.

Kathleen (37:13) I

Scott Benner (37:13) linked to

Kathleen (37:14) them all.

Scott Benner (37:14) That's crazy because Scott started pretty early, Johnson. (37:17) Like, make

Kathleen (37:17) Well, I right. (37:19) He did, but I I was blogging before he was. (37:21) I've met him in person, and he met Dulce.

Scott Benner (37:24) No kidding. (37:25) Yeah. (37:25) I mean, the way I always thought of the beginning was Carrie Sparling whose husband

Kathleen (37:32) That was before her.

Scott Benner (37:32) Whose husband wrote the Greenland and Greenland two movie. (37:36) And Well, George

Kathleen (37:38) He's written a bunch.

Scott Benner (37:39) He's done more than that, but there's the ones people I think would know. (37:42) And then Okay. (37:42) George Simmons who wrote about type two diabetes. (37:45) You must know, George.

Kathleen (37:46) I've met George.

Scott Benner (37:47) Yeah. (37:47) George is lovely. (37:48) And, not that they're all not lovely, but because now I

Kathleen (37:51) Every one of them is lovely.

Scott Benner (37:52) Now I said George is lovely. (37:53) They'll be like, he doesn't think the other two are lovely. (37:55) They're all lovely, really. (37:56) And But they really are. (37:57) And Scott, but those three were the first three I was aware of.

Kathleen (38:01) Well and I was confused this morning because I got an ad or this week because I've gotten an ad for Pump Feals, and apparently, the guy who runs it, Scott.

Scott Benner (38:10) I don't know about that. (38:11) I barely know about me. (38:12) I got a lot of stuff going on here.

Kathleen (38:13) Because I they had a birthday sale, and it was Scott's birthday. (38:17) And I thought, well, is it you? (38:19) And I looked and no. (38:20) It was

Scott Benner (38:21) not me. (38:22) I don't do anything

Kathleen (38:23) with pump pills.

Scott Benner (38:23) I don't do anything with pump pills. (38:25) Not that I wouldn't. (38:25) I did just recently finish up ads with Skin Grip that went pretty well. (38:29) Oh, good. (38:29) So had you ever been to any of those blogging conferences?

Scott Benner (38:31) Have you and I ever been in the same place?

Kathleen (38:33) You and I have never been in the same place.

Scott Benner (38:35) No? (38:36) Okay.

Kathleen (38:36) You would know because I woulda had a beagle with me.

Scott Benner (38:39) You woulda a beagle with you. (38:40) Alright. (38:41) Listen. (38:41) I appreciate that you think I would know because of that. (38:43) I don't remember three days ago.

Scott Benner (38:45) So

Kathleen (38:45) No. (38:45) No. (38:46) You would remember everybody who's ever met Dulce remembers her.

Scott Benner (38:50) Okay. (38:51) Well, you don't know me very well.

Kathleen (38:52) At Astra Ven at at Astra

Scott Benner (38:55) Zeneca?

Kathleen (38:55) Can't say it now. (38:57) Yeah. (38:57) They invited me and paid for me to come to a thing that they invited a whole bunch of social media people to.

Scott Benner (39:05) Okay.

Kathleen (39:05) And there's a picture of Dulce in the somewhere on the Internet. (39:10) Because a lot of people like to fake service dog, spot her.

Scott Benner (39:15) When you think back on that time you spent doing all that, whether five people read it or 500 or 5,000, not not really mattering, what do you think that the process of blogging did for you? (39:27) Do do you have positive takeaways from it?

Kathleen (39:30) Oh, yeah. (39:30) I mean, it's like I said, I'm a computer scientist. (39:34) You didn't do any research if you don't write it down. (39:37) So I wrote it down, and you have to put it somewhere where other people can find it. (39:40) That's part of being the computer scientist that I am.

Scott Benner (39:45) Do you think it benefited your health or your psychological wellness, or is there anything you can point to and say that by writing or sharing this, I felt did experience something?

Kathleen (39:57) Meeting all those different people. (39:59) Oh, here's another Scott, Hanselman. (40:02) I've met him. (40:03) He's met the dog.

Scott Benner (40:05) That name. (40:06) I can picture an an avatar, but that's about it.

Kathleen (40:08) Works for Microsoft, and he wrote the first diabetes blog for the PalmPilot.

Scott Benner (40:15) Oh, no kidding. (40:16) Yeah. (40:16) I mean, I know that name for sure. (40:18) I feel

Kathleen (40:19) like He's a Scott. (40:20) He's another one of the diabetes Scotts, and he's blogged a bit. (40:23) He blogs. (40:24) He blogs to this day as part of his job with Microsoft.

Scott Benner (40:27) Oh, am I a diabetes Scott?

Kathleen (40:30) Yes.

Scott Benner (40:30) Oh, in your mind, you I am. (40:32) How about that?

Kathleen (40:33) Well, the whole that whole people in that were blogging at that time, you were one of the Scotts.

Scott Benner (40:40) So I did a thing where listen. (40:45) I just started to write. (40:46) I wasn't aware of a community or an idea. (40:50) Like, I've said this before. (40:51) I'm embarrassed enough to say it again, but I'm I'm embarrassed, but I'll say it again.

Scott Benner (40:55) When I found out someone else was writing a diabetes blog, I was shocked. (40:59) I thought for certain I was the only person doing it, is such an odd thing, and I understand all that. (41:04) But, like, meaning that I just started doing it, I was unaware of the rest of the world being involved in any of it. (41:09) Blogging was very early on. (41:11) It was not an even an easy thing to get a blog set up.

Kathleen (41:14) Well, I had to download the software and compile and and put it on a machine and the whole bit.

Scott Benner (41:21) Yeah. (41:21) No. (41:21) I mean, that's crazy. (41:22) I used iWeb.

Kathleen (41:23) But I'm a computer scientist. (41:25) It was like lunch.

Scott Benner (41:26) Well, for you, I used iWeb. (41:29) I thought it was crazy. (41:30) And when I finally realized someone else was writing a, like, write doing this, I I wouldn't even call myself a blogger. (41:37) I didn't know I was doing that even. (41:39) When I realized that I was like, oh, that felt so strange to me.

Scott Benner (41:42) Like, I for sure thought, like, I was, you know, like, I just landed on the new world. (41:46) I'm like, I'm here first. (41:47) And then everybody's like, no. (41:48) There's a few of us over here already. (41:50) I was like, oh, okay.

Kathleen (41:51) And there's Kathleen here somewhere.

Scott Benner (41:52) Yeah. (41:53) No kidding. (41:53) And then so then I realized, oh, obviously, more people are doing it than me. (41:57) And I felt silly for a second, but whatever. (41:59) Then I started seeing people arguing with each other about stealing each other's ideas and stuff like that.

Scott Benner (42:05) And I just thought, am not gonna pay a lick of attention to anybody else because I don't want anybody saying I took their idea. (42:12) So I'm not gonna read anything anybody writes. (42:14) I don't give a crap what happens. (42:16) I isolated myself in that situation. (42:19) Also, it would be easy to think of it as, like, a community or a club that I was meaningfully staying out of, but it didn't really exist that way in my mind.

Scott Benner (42:27) So when they were having blogging conferences, I was unaware of them. (42:32) Nobody would invite me to them. (42:33) I didn't I was outside of that completely. (42:37) And I think that's what helped my thing grow so well. (42:40) It grew outside of the bubble that everybody else existed in because I wasn't trying to get the same thousand people that read their blog to read mine too.

Scott Benner (42:49) Mine just grew by word-of-mouth.

Kathleen (42:52) And see, I never cared. (42:54) I mean, I literally I mean, I joined some diabetes rings, and I did promote other people's stuff.

Scott Benner (43:02) Mhmm.

Kathleen (43:02) Like, I did promoted you know, said things about Carrie's, and I said things about Scott Johnson. (43:09) And and, you know, if they asked me technical questions, I'd answer them and because that's my niche. (43:16) So I I knew I was first, and I didn't care.

Scott Benner (43:20) It never really even so I didn't even have a counter on my website. (43:23) I was completely unaware of

Kathleen (43:25) Oh, no. (43:25) I didn't have either. (43:26) Yeah. (43:27) I I didn't. (43:28) I literally didn't care if anybody ever read it because what it the whole purpose of it was is so that chat GPT later could go read my blog and give people the answers on the research that I did.

Scott Benner (43:41) Very nice idea. (43:41) Yeah. (43:42) A company who was it? (43:44) Sanofi. (43:45) Until Sanofi came to me and asked me to come in for a meeting, I didn't really recognize, like, anything about it.

Scott Benner (43:52) So try to imagine, like, I got a phone call from, like, a pharma company, like, would you like to come in and talk about blogging with us? (43:59) And I was like, sure. (44:01) And so I thought, well, I'll take the lunch. (44:02) You know what I mean? (44:03) So I went to lunch, sat down.

Scott Benner (44:05) This wonderful woman named Laura sat in front of me, and she dropped what looked it was it it felt like six reams of paper in front of me, like, you know, and she's like, you know, would it surprise you to know that you have might get the number wrong here, but I think she said, would it surprise you to know that you have the thirty sixth most popular diabetes blog in the world? (44:26) And I said I laughed and I said, that would only not surprise me if there were only 37 diabetes blogs in the whole world. (44:34) And and she goes, well, there's over 4,000. (44:38) And I was like, really? (44:40) And so that's when she told me they had found over 4,000 diabetes blogs and that mine was number 36, like, on the planet.

Scott Benner (44:49) And I said, that's insane. (44:52) And she goes, how many downloads do you have? (44:53) And I said, I don't know. (44:55) I was like, how do you know that? (44:57) And she goes, wait.

Scott Benner (44:58) There could be, like, a counter on your website. (45:00) I was like, no. (45:01) I don't have that. (45:02) And that was the first time I recognized how far the thing was reaching. (45:05) Because I would get emails from people, but it's hard to gauge from that.

Scott Benner (45:08) You know?

Kathleen (45:09) But but you were different than everybody else, and you reached an audience that no one else had.

Scott Benner (45:15) You think?

Kathleen (45:16) Because you had a very young child who was diagnosed with diabetes, and you were helping other and you have always helped parents with children with diabetes.

Scott Benner (45:31) I don't even see any of it that way. (45:33) It's funny. (45:33) Like, because it wasn't my goal. (45:35) Have.

Kathleen (45:35) Yeah. (45:35) And it's a really good thing. (45:37) I get I I have no patience for parents. (45:41) I have plenty of patience for kids, but I have absolutely no patience for parents.

Scott Benner (45:45) So I might

Kathleen (45:46) come and be

Scott Benner (45:46) a teacher. (45:47) Right?

Kathleen (45:48) Oh, yeah. (45:49) Yeah. (45:51) But those acorns don't fall far from those trees. (45:53) Let me tell you.

Scott Benner (45:55) Oh, you hit them with your lawn mower. (45:57) They they get broken up. (45:57) Don't worry. (45:58) It's fine.

Kathleen (45:59) Oh, the squirrels ate them at my house.

Scott Benner (46:03) Well, I just it's nice of you to say, and and it was my intention to help people, but I didn't have any idea of scope or scale. (46:09) I didn't I and I wasn't I genuinely wasn't focused on it. (46:12) And, like, it's easy to say I didn't make any money at it. (46:15) There was no way to make money at it. (46:16) Like, you know, like so people would put, like, a Google AdSense ad on their front page and it would make them $50 a month or something like that.

Scott Benner (46:24) But I used actually, what I told my wife asked me one day, are you gonna do that? (46:27) And I said, why put an ad on here just to make an amount of money that's not gonna make any difference to anybody? (46:32) Like, you know what I mean? (46:33) Like, I just I'm not doing that. (46:35) And then I started meeting other people who blogged.

Scott Benner (46:38) There's a person that sticks on my mind. (46:39) Would never say their name, but they wrote a good blog. (46:42) People liked it. (46:44) I asked one time about some plans they might have have in the future for it and they were like, honestly, I don't even like doing this. (46:50) I just do it because it brings in, like, $400 a month in these, like, Google AdSense ads.

Scott Benner (46:56) And and that, like, kinda broke my heart a little bit. (46:59) Like, they were done with it already, but they just they wanted the $400. (47:03) So they kept doing it, and that didn't listen. (47:05) I understood, and I have no problem with people making a living. (47:09) But anyway, they feel like they can do it as long as it's not hurting anybody.

Scott Benner (47:12) And the and the blog certainly wasn't hurting anybody. (47:13) It was really valuable, But it was just that the person was just like, if I had my choice, I would not do this. (47:20) And I was like, oh, okay. (47:21) I'm like, I like doing it.

Kathleen (47:23) I really like doing it too. (47:25) Yeah. (47:26) I just haven't had as much to say. (47:29) Things haven't. (47:30) I haven't had to research as you know, like I did.

Scott Benner (47:33) Because the way you do it. (47:34) Yeah.

Kathleen (47:34) Because of the way I do it, and it's it's working for me.

Scott Benner (47:38) Well, I just found that the podcast reach people faster.

Kathleen (47:41) Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner (47:42) Yeah. (47:42) And it and it lends better to how my brain works too because when I have to write, like, first, I have to vomit it all out and then I have to go back and make sense of it and then put it back together in a way that people can read. (47:54) It's just it's arduous and people don't read much anymore to begin with. (47:57) So truth be told now, I just you know, I I put stuff on the blog when it you know, when I'm like, oh, that's interesting or somebody might wanna know about that or something like that. (48:06) Or if I just think that

Kathleen (48:08) That's what I do now is Yeah. (48:10) You know? (48:10) Like I said, when I I had a I've taken some classes at the local community college, and I was having trouble with textbook platform. (48:19) And I had to, like, go through back doors and stuff, I wrote all that down. (48:23) Yep.

Kathleen (48:24) Might have to do that again.

Scott Benner (48:25) One of my blog pages that's incredibly popular right now is just the fat and protein calculator and a description of how that works. (48:32) And that thing gets pretty pretty crazy downloads.

Kathleen (48:35) Yep.

Scott Benner (48:35) The a one c calculator of all the bizarre things, like, boom. (48:40) Like, I I guess everybody who hears that doesn't have one on their website is gonna be doing it now. (48:44) But, like, I get crazy traffic from an a one c calculator, and then the podcast basically brings in the rest of the of the traffic. (48:51) I mean, I I do like writing. (48:53) I miss it a little bit because now when I write, it's it's done more I mean, in in total honesty, like, when I write now, I sit down, I write out what I mean.

Scott Benner (49:03) You know? (49:04) And then if it has something to do with a an episode of the podcast, then I'll I'll just feed what I wrote and the podcast episode into chat GPT or something like that or Gemini or whatever and say, like, look. (49:16) This is what I wrote. (49:17) It's referring to this. (49:19) Can you put a blog post together about it?

Scott Benner (49:21) And then it just kinda hammers it together in my voice and, you know, truth be told, people seem to like that much better than they like it when I just write. (49:28) So which I find it's a happy coincidence because I don't have time to write like that anymore, and, apparently, people like it better. (49:35) So

Kathleen (49:36) Well, I don't work that hard at writing, but I was trained to technical write when I was in college. (49:45) And, you know, anytime we turn things in, we had to write documentation for it. (49:52) And I make kids do that. (49:53) It's so funny because any of the college professors at any of the universities in Texas know my students as soon as they see their first assignment. (50:04) It was like, you had wavered in here.

Kathleen (50:06) Like, yep.

Scott Benner (50:07) Well, you know, Kathleen, I get for years, people complain to me about the, the descriptions of the podcast episodes because my descriptions are like, Kathleen has type two diabetes. (50:18) Like, that's what I that's what I would write after you and I recorded together. (50:23) And it's for a couple of reasons. (50:24) It's a, because I sit down and do it much later after the recording, so it's kinda out of my head. (50:29) But b, I'm an audio person, so I don't give the the description is meaningless to me.

Scott Benner (50:34) I listen to podcasts. (50:35) I've never once read the description for any of them. (50:37) Like, it's just I like the host or, you know, the vibe or whatever. (50:41) Like, I'll put it on and I'll see what I think. (50:43) You know, I don't need you to tell me what it's about, but also because a description can only be so long.

Scott Benner (50:48) So, like, is my description for you, Kathleen, diagnosed twenty years ago as a type two, you know, manages herself now as a type, you know, with insulin and technology and GLP medications. (51:02) So that's not that's Dogs. (51:03) Yeah. (51:03) And then dog and

Kathleen (51:04) she's got beagles.

Scott Benner (51:05) Dogs. (51:05) She got dogs.

Kathleen (51:05) I'm a because we haven't gotten to the main point of why I wanted to be on your podcast.

Scott Benner (51:11) Give me one second. (51:12) We'll jump right to it. (51:13) Alright. (51:13) Great. (51:13) And then what do I add then?

Scott Benner (51:14) Like and she asked, also, she was a blogger who knew Scott twenty years ago and that's not a description. (51:19) That's a synopsis. (51:20) Right. (51:20) That I have two sentences to put a description in your thing. (51:23) So, you know, people complain, they complain, they complain.

Scott Benner (51:26) I get all the time, like, make a better description. (51:28) I'm like, leave me alone. (51:30) And then one day, I was like, why am I fighting with these people? (51:32) I take the transcript, I drop it into Gemini, and I say, need a 30 word or fewer description for a podcast. (51:40) And it spits it out.

Scott Benner (51:41) And by the way, everyone loves them. (51:42) And as I look at it, I think I could have never written that. (51:45) I don't know enough about the the you know, two months later, I don't know enough about the the episode to even do that. (51:50) And I can't sit and listen to it and take notes and make a disc you know, where most of you probably don't look at it anyway except the ones who are really bothered by it. (51:57) And so it's just been it's a I don't know.

Scott Benner (52:00) Like, it's the podcast is more popular today than it was yesterday. (52:05) And it continues to just grow and get bigger and the feedback gets wider and wider from people who find it valuable. (52:14) And I just I really like doing it. (52:16) Like, so I just you know, I keep going. (52:18) What made you wanna come on the podcast?

Scott Benner (52:20) Let's button up with that. (52:21) Like, what is the thing that got you here?

Kathleen (52:23) People should not get diabetes alert, docs.

Scott Benner (52:26) Oh, I thought you were gonna say people should not get diabetes. (52:28) I was like, you're goddamn right, Kathleen. (52:30) You figured it out. (52:32) Wait. (52:32) Why should they get because they can make their own.

Kathleen (52:35) Well, no. (52:36) Their dogs are expensive.

Scott Benner (52:38) Okay.

Kathleen (52:38) I just took Obi, my male beagle, to my vet for his annual, and 360 later. (52:47) And I've gotta take another one tomorrow, and it'll be another $360.

Scott Benner (52:52) So you're just saying the dogs are nice, but they're really expensive? (52:57) Yeah. (52:58) Yeah. (52:58) And get a CGM? (53:00) Is that your message?

Kathleen (53:01) Yeah. (53:02) They play CGMs work just as well as the dogs do now. (53:06) When I got Dulce, that was she died two years ago at 15.

Scott Benner (53:11) I'm sorry.

Kathleen (53:11) And beagles, she lived the best life

Scott Benner (53:15) Awesome.

Kathleen (53:15) Any dog could have.

Scott Benner (53:17) That's awesome.

Kathleen (53:17) I have had told people tell me when they die, they wanna be reincarnated as one of my dogs.

Scott Benner (53:23) Oh, that's a nice compliment.

Kathleen (53:26) Well and people give me dogs. (53:28) I have Lola right now, and she is not gonna be trained as a diabetes alert I did not train Obi as a diabetes alert dog.

Scott Benner (53:37) Is his full name Obi Wan Kenobi, by the way?

Kathleen (53:41) No. (53:41) That's use the force. (53:42) Oh. (53:44) It's a whole bunch of people's names use the force. (53:46) His daddy is Anakin, and Anakin is one of the top beagles ever.

Scott Benner (53:51) No kidding. (53:52) How do you know that?

Kathleen (53:53) Well, I know Anakin.

Scott Benner (53:55) But, I mean, is he rated on some, like, beagle list or

Kathleen (53:57) something? (53:58) Fish.

Scott Benner (53:59) Because I'm because it it's that easy, Kathleen. (54:01) I'm one of the top rated podcasters ever. (54:03) I just wanna say that now.

Kathleen (54:03) No. (54:04) No. (54:04) You have to win the national specialty, and you have to have at least gotten award of merit at Westminster. (54:13) Mhmm. (54:14) He shows in Europe.

Scott Benner (54:16) Oh my gosh.

Kathleen (54:16) So, yeah, so Anakin is one of and he has lots of really good puppies. (54:23) And one of the measures of a top beagle or a top dog is how many champion offspring do you have, and that's where the free dogs come in. (54:32) And then there's quotes around the free. (54:35) Because when someone gives me a dog, I take care of all the expenses I show them. (54:41) And I've been working on Lola for a while.

Kathleen (54:44) Obi's an interesting story because I had my diabetes completely under control. (54:50) Anyone see prob below 6.5. (54:52) Mhmm. (54:53) And he had never seen a low blood sugar. (54:55) And we go drive to Boston because you don't wanna really fly with a dog, especially go to a dog show because you have more dog luggage than you have people luggage.

Kathleen (55:04) So we're driving to Boston, and I go to sleep in a hotel, and he wakes up. (55:12) And he wakes me up, and he's in a crate. (55:15) So I'm like, okay. (55:16) Obi needs to go out. (55:17) But I'm a good diabetic, and the first thing I do is I check my blood sugar.

Kathleen (55:20) Oh, my blood sugar's dropping, and he caught it twenty minutes before the CGM. (55:25) I ate a lifesaver. (55:26) He curled up and went back to sleep. (55:29) Same thing happens again the next night. (55:31) Of course, my activity level is lower because I'm driving all day.

Kathleen (55:36) I'm literally driving all day. (55:38) Mhmm. (55:38) So I have too much insulin in my system. (55:41) I had to get ahold of my endocrinologist anyway, and we did some adjustments. (55:47) And I'd forgotten that my Dexcom transmitter was expired, so I picked one up in Boston while I was up there.

Kathleen (55:55) And she had to write the prescription. (55:57) That's why I called her in the first place. (55:58) I did not go low the rest of the trip. (56:01) The dog did not wake me up in the middle of the night. (56:03) And by the way, both times, when I ate a lifesaver, he curled up and went back to sleep.

Scott Benner (56:08) Well, first of all, when somebody gives you a dog, why don't you make them give you money too? (56:12) Why don't you say, hey. (56:12) That's nice, but let's give Kathleen a little cash to

Kathleen (56:15) take over the is no money in dogs.

Scott Benner (56:17) Well, then there's no dogs in my house then. (56:19) I I can't take Well,

Kathleen (56:20) that's why you you don't have

Scott Benner (56:21) a dog. (56:22) Well, listen. (56:23) I have two dogs, but I hear what you're saying.

Kathleen (56:24) Beagle. (56:25) Any one of the ones that I have right now would go if you bought a beagle, I don't know what the going price is right now. (56:32) It's probably gone up. (56:34) We're talking 3 or $4,000.

Scott Benner (56:36) For sale. (56:37) Right now, slap a for sale sign right on all those people.

Kathleen (56:39) Puppy. (56:40) Well, we need puppies are worth more money than adult dogs unless they've proven themselves. (56:46) There's a lady down in Florida who is leasing and placing dogs because she has to move. (56:54) And I don't know how much money you have to give her, but I'm sure it's quite a bit. (56:58) So Obie was not supposed to be the pick of the litter, but he's the only one in the litter who has a championship.

Scott Benner (57:05) How about that? (57:06) Hey. (57:06) Listen. (57:07) Are you Woodstock, or are you Charlie in this scenario? (57:12) Right?

Scott Benner (57:13) Snoopy's not beagle. (57:14) Are you the bird or the boy? (57:16) I'm neither. (57:17) You're neither. (57:18) Which one?

Scott Benner (57:18) Who are you in this scenario?

Kathleen (57:19) My kids asked me if I was the dog whisperer Mhmm. (57:24) When I was because they knew well, one of the extra credit questions on any test was a random one of my dogs. (57:30) You get five points For remembering something. (57:32) If he remembered my one of my and there was a specific doc. (57:36) There was a specific thing you had to remember about that doc.

Scott Benner (57:39) Hey. (57:39) How old are your kids?

Kathleen (57:40) I have no children.

Scott Benner (57:41) Oh, I thought you said my kid. (57:42) You oh, you meant the kids at school. (57:44) Okay. (57:44) Okay.

Kathleen (57:44) Alright. (57:45) Yeah. (57:45) My oldest child Mhmm. (57:47) Who actually calls me mom is probably 50 now.

Scott Benner (57:51) Oh, jeez. (57:52) You've been doing a long time.

Kathleen (57:54) Yeah. (57:54) I've taught high school for well, I've taught computer science for over thirty years. (57:58) I'm still listed as an instructor with Johns Hopkins. (58:02) I just don't have students right now. (58:03) It's Johns Hopkins University Center for Talented Youth.

Scott Benner (58:07) I I should have been sent there.

Kathleen (58:09) And

Scott Benner (58:10) Sorry. (58:10) I'm just joking. (58:11) I don't think I was a talented youth. (58:13) Oh god.

Kathleen (58:14) You have to pass a test to take my class.

Scott Benner (58:16) No. (58:16) I wasn't gonna be doing that.

Kathleen (58:17) No. (58:17) No. (58:18) I really seriously. (58:19) Yeah. (58:20) And then I've done that the last eleven years.

Scott Benner (58:23) Okay.

Kathleen (58:24) They cut my classes on my tenth anniversary. (58:27) They for everybody that it was websites.

Scott Benner (58:30) Yeah. (58:30) Not just you.

Kathleen (58:31) Not just me, but it just happened to be.

Scott Benner (58:34) Kathleen, let me pivot you around a little bit here. (58:36) So on your health, like, what are your goals? (58:39) Like, are you trying to lose more weight? (58:41) Are you I I didn't ask your a one c. (58:43) I would like to know what your a one c is.

Scott Benner (58:44) Like, what are you trying to accomplish here, you know, in the next handful of years?

Kathleen (58:50) Well, my a one c is 5.9. (58:52) I just wanna live longer than my father, and I've managed to do that.

Scott Benner (58:55) Oh, you gotta get a new goal then.

Kathleen (58:57) And then my other goal is I wanna run agility again. (59:00) I've got three two and a half dogs well, Lola's not really trained. (59:06) I have two dogs trained to run agility trials. (59:09) So I've had the top obedience beagle in the country for, like, eight years.

Scott Benner (59:17) And you like to

Kathleen (59:18) be out of the obedience show? (59:19) Beagle, you have to qualify a certain number of times, and they accumulate points based on that. (59:26) And they give you award at the National Beagle Specialty each year. (59:29) And she got that eight times.

Scott Benner (59:30) Yeah.

Kathleen (59:32) So I'm a very I'm a not only a very talented teacher, but I'm also a very talented dog trainer. (59:38) And it was dog training that got me into teaching.

Scott Benner (59:41) Wait. (59:41) The dog thing is like, don't people do that either, like, as a hobby or as a an outlet to sell puppies. (59:48) Right? (59:48) Like but you're not doing you're not selling anything. (59:51) So are you just No.

Scott Benner (59:52) You just enjoy doing it?

Kathleen (59:53) It's I enjoy the people that go there.

Scott Benner (59:57) Yeah.

Kathleen (59:58) I I actually enjoy showing dogs. (1:00:02) If I'm sitting at a dog show, you know, waiting for my turn, somebody will come up to me and, hey, Kathleen. (1:00:09) I have an extra dog. (1:00:09) Will you take it in the ring for me? (1:00:11) And I'll take the dog in the ring.

Kathleen (1:00:13) Now I'm supposed to be wearing a huge l on my forehead when I take a dog into the ring, but that doesn't always happen. (1:00:20) The National Beagle Specialty was up here in North Texas. (1:00:23) I was down near Austin at a dog show, and she knows me pretty well. (1:00:29) We've been at National Specialties before and all this other stuff. (1:00:32) And she handed me a brand new puppy that had never been in the ring before.

Kathleen (1:00:36) And she said, Kathleen, you don't have too many dogs. (1:00:38) Will you take my puppy yet? (1:00:40) This dog didn't know how to walk on a leash. (1:00:43) And by the time the weekend was done, I had this dog showing to where it could win. (1:00:51) And she was able to sell it at the national specialty for more money because I had trained her dog for I guess it was two weekends I

Scott Benner (1:00:59) should done. (1:01:00) Taste of that then? (1:01:01) What's it? (1:01:01) Where does Kathleen make her money on that situation?

Kathleen (1:01:04) There's no money in it. (1:01:06) There are professional handlers.

Scott Benner (1:01:08) You say, look. (1:01:08) I'll walk your dog and get it straight for you, but, I get to wet my beak afterwards. (1:01:12) That's what you say, wet my beak. (1:01:14) And then they they they they know that you're in for 10%. (1:01:17) You know what I mean?

Kathleen (1:01:17) Well, no. (1:01:18) No. (1:01:18) No. (1:01:19) I I'm like the okay. (1:01:20) So my

Scott Benner (1:01:21) Why did that make you giggle, Kathleen? (1:01:23) What what happened there?

Kathleen (1:01:24) I I'm not in it for money.

Scott Benner (1:01:26) No. (1:01:26) But I mean, you did

Kathleen (1:01:27) the work. (1:01:27) Anything anything for money.

Scott Benner (1:01:28) No. (1:01:29) But but you've trained up the dog, and she sold it for more money. (1:01:32) Fair's fair.

Kathleen (1:01:33) I know. (1:01:33) But I'm like, Carrie, you know well, let's so I get a the next dog for free.

Scott Benner (1:01:38) Well, yeah, but that dog just cost you more money.

Kathleen (1:01:40) And so I don't have to pay. (1:01:41) No. (1:01:42) That dog didn't cost me anymore.

Scott Benner (1:01:43) It will. (1:01:44) You gotta feed the damn thing and take it to the doctor.

Kathleen (1:01:46) Yeah. (1:01:47) The the dog that lives at my house, I I spend money on. (1:01:52) So all three dogs in my house, co own. (1:01:55) Dulce, I did give him her money, but it was just so her no. (1:02:01) Her her name what?

Kathleen (1:02:03) No. (1:02:03) Her name was not on the paper. (1:02:05) I didn't want her I mean, she's on the papers for as a breeder. (1:02:09) But Dulce, I was doing agility with, but she had issues.

Scott Benner (1:02:13) I'm not okay with this. (1:02:14) The next person hands you a dog better also be handing you some money. (1:02:17) That's what I want. (1:02:18) No. (1:02:18) No, Kathleen.

Scott Benner (1:02:19) I'm gonna just pick up for you. (1:02:20) You call me. (1:02:20) You call me next time. (1:02:21) I'll do the talking. (1:02:22) Don't worry.

Scott Benner (1:02:23) Get you.

Kathleen (1:02:24) Well, I think just to give me a dog, I don't have to spend two years training before I can get it in a ring.

Scott Benner (1:02:30) Sounds like that other one. (1:02:31) Two weeks, you put up their price. (1:02:33) In two weeks.

Kathleen (1:02:34) I know.

Scott Benner (1:02:35) I want Kathleen enjoying profit sharing on that. (1:02:38) That's all I'm saying. (1:02:39) Kathleen, this

Kathleen (1:02:39) is There's did did I have people who make money and dogs, so the professional handlers? (1:02:44) And I don't wanna be one of those people.

Scott Benner (1:02:46) No. (1:02:46) You don't have to have a whole business. (1:02:48) I'm just saying if somebody hands you a dog that doesn't look like it's ever seen a leash before and two weeks later, they're selling it at a profit, you should get a little bit of that money. (1:02:57) You giggled again. (1:02:59) Why are you so delightful?

Scott Benner (1:03:00) Why did you giggle again?

Kathleen (1:03:02) Well, that's just because I'm a nice person.

Scott Benner (1:03:04) No. (1:03:05) Bullshit. (1:03:05) I want that. (1:03:06) I want I want

Kathleen (1:03:07) because you I'm a nice person. (1:03:09) But the funny thing is is when they needed somebody to get kids to settle down, they go and get me.

Scott Benner (1:03:15) Yeah. (1:03:15) Exactly. (1:03:16) And you walk those kids around on a leash till they calm down too. (1:03:18) And then someone else and then someone else then someone else takes them in their class and teaches them for something. (1:03:24) I don't I percent, Kathleen.

Scott Benner (1:03:26) 10%. (1:03:27) I don't touch a dog.

Kathleen (1:03:28) Yeah. (1:03:29) 10% of nothing is nothing.

Scott Benner (1:03:31) Yeah. (1:03:31) When they sell

Kathleen (1:03:32) that dog make any money. (1:03:33) She first of all, she didn't make any money off that puppy. (1:03:35) She had to import the I think that one was one of her imports.

Scott Benner (1:03:38) I don't care. (1:03:39) She would have made less if it wasn't for you. (1:03:41) What do you think of that?

Kathleen (1:03:42) Well, that's true, but I don't care.

Scott Benner (1:03:44) I I alright. (1:03:44) You're a lovely person.

Kathleen (1:03:45) Known as a nice person.

Scott Benner (1:03:47) Alright. (1:03:48) Listen. (1:03:48) I do a lot of things for free too. (1:03:49) I I I don't I don't not understand what you're saying.

Kathleen (1:03:52) Back to the dog thing, they're very expensive. (1:03:55) CGMs are a lot cheaper. (1:03:57) And now it's 2,026. (1:03:59) I have a 5.9 a one c, and I run an Omnipod and Dexcom g seven.

Scott Benner (1:04:05) Yeah.

Kathleen (1:04:06) And I never calibrate.

Scott Benner (1:04:08) Yeah. (1:04:08) And tell them that Dexcom's never your floor once. (1:04:10) Right?

Kathleen (1:04:12) Exactly.

Scott Benner (1:04:13) Leave it at that, Kathleen.

Kathleen (1:04:14) They've never thrown up.

Scott Benner (1:04:16) Exactly. (1:04:17) Never once never once lifted its leg on your sofa.

Kathleen (1:04:21) Oh, no. (1:04:22) They Obi lifts his leg on me. (1:04:24) He gets very upset when I and you'll love this. (1:04:27) He gets very bothered when I'm at a dog show talking to another male human, or I think male dogs do it too. (1:04:37) And while I'm talking to a male human, he'll just calmly lift his leg and pee on me.

Scott Benner (1:04:42) Oh my god. (1:04:42) I'm laughing the whole time. (1:04:44) That's ridiculous. (1:04:45) I was gonna Kathleen, I have to go because I have a a a life, and I gotta work. (1:04:52) But this has been really nice catching up with you.

Scott Benner (1:04:54) I'm sorry we didn't know each other back in the day when you were writing blogs, but it was been really nice to

Kathleen (1:04:57) to get to know

Scott Benner (1:04:58) you now.

Kathleen (1:04:58) You just didn't know who I was and I didn't care.

Scott Benner (1:05:01) Oh, okay. (1:05:02) Again, the same beautiful attitude. (1:05:04) I I was very busy sitting here in my underwear writing a blog. (1:05:08) And by the way, if you read that old blog, just remember, I was in my underwear while I was writing it. (1:05:13) Usually, it was like late at night and I was like, oh, let me just

Kathleen (1:05:16) And get the book too?

Scott Benner (1:05:17) The book I the book I treated as a job. (1:05:19) I got up every morning, and I wrote all day long when I wrote the book. (1:05:24) I did it for six months.

Kathleen (1:05:26) So That might be what I need to do to write a book.

Scott Benner (1:05:28) Yeah. (1:05:28) I mean, the truth be told, like, I made the money that they paid me to write it and never a dollar after that. (1:05:34) And, you know, if you're talking about, like, you know, the juice and the squeeze, then there's there's none there. (1:05:41) I made, you know, I made 2¢ an hour, you know, to write the book. (1:05:45) Once it's written, you're not famous, so it's not actually gonna sell.

Scott Benner (1:05:48) And then you have to publish publicize it yourself because then the publisher is not going to help you with it either. (1:05:54) The one thing I learned long after I wrote the book was that when offered to me, it was offered to me because the publishing house needed another book that fit that category and they didn't have one lined up for the season. (1:06:10) And they met me because I wrote a sidebar for Leanne Callantine's book. (1:06:17) There's a name I would never use except with you because you you probably know that name. (1:06:21) And so I I wrote a sidebar for her book.

Scott Benner (1:06:24) The publisher came to me and said they like the sidebar. (1:06:27) And would I like to write my own book about diabetes? (1:06:30) I said no, but I would like to write a book about being a stay at home dad. (1:06:33) And then that's how that happened. (1:06:35) And what I realized later is that when it got done, they were pleasantly surprised that it was any good and that they didn't really care in the interim if it was good or not.

Scott Benner (1:06:46) They needed the book. (1:06:47) And so for a low price, they got a first time author to write for them then they had the book. (1:06:52) When it got done, the publisher came to me and they were like, hey. (1:06:56) Bonus. (1:06:56) This thing's actually good.

Scott Benner (1:06:58) Thank you. (1:06:59) And that was the they were, like, pleasantly surprised. (1:07:02) But still, they didn't put any effort into publicity. (1:07:04) Anything you saw me doing back then, whether like, from blog talk radio show to the Katie Couric show, and I was on NPR in Philly. (1:07:13) Like, I did a lot of stuff to publicize the book, but I made all of that stuff happen myself.

Scott Benner (1:07:18) They didn't help with that at all. (1:07:19) This is the hardest $5,000 I've ever made in my life. (1:07:25) And it definitely was not worth monetarily not worth the effort that was put into it because it was I mean, honestly, six months, you know, to write $5,000, I probably could have, like, made french fries.

Kathleen (1:07:39) Yeah. (1:07:39) You lost money. (1:07:40) Yeah.

Scott Benner (1:07:40) I I could have made I could have done the fries at McDonald's.

Kathleen (1:07:42) Even as a teacher, I make more money in six months.

Scott Benner (1:07:45) And you're like, and that's terrible. (1:07:47) And then on top of all that, then the publicity of it went on for another six, twelve months getting yourself to Philly to be on the radio or, you know, being at some location to get interviewed or that kind of for a, you know, a newspaper article or whatever. (1:08:03) But I will tell you, you know, I I don't know if I ever said this out loud, but one of the, nicest things that came from writing the book is that on Father's Day, my mom got to open a section of her local newspaper in Philadelphia, and I was on the front page of it.

Kathleen (1:08:19) Oh, that's cool.

Scott Benner (1:08:20) And she I remember how excited she was to, like, flip through the paper that day and then and see me there. (1:08:26) So it might have all been worth that. (1:08:28) I'm not sure. (1:08:28) Anyway

Kathleen (1:08:29) One of my dogs was in the Dallas Morning Games.

Scott Benner (1:08:31) Are you comparing me to your dogs? (1:08:33) Is that what's happening right now?

Kathleen (1:08:34) Yes.

Scott Benner (1:08:35) Yeah. (1:08:35) Kathleen, this interview is over. (1:08:38) Seriously, I really do

Kathleen (1:08:39) appreciate you. (1:08:40) Are a lot cuter than you are.

Scott Benner (1:08:41) Hey. (1:08:42) Hey. (1:08:42) You haven't seen a recent photo. (1:08:44) You don't know. (1:08:45) I've been on the GLP too.

Kathleen (1:08:48) Yeah. (1:08:48) I know. (1:08:49) I've I've listened to that. (1:08:50) I've listened to quite a bit of your podcast insulin. (1:08:53) Well, the Omnipod series, I'm always posting for people, and that really helped me a lot.

Scott Benner (1:08:58) Yeah. (1:08:59) No. (1:08:59) I'm glad. (1:08:59) I'm glad it it it it's been I think that series has been valuable too. (1:09:03) I mean, you have no idea.

Scott Benner (1:09:05) Hundreds and hundreds. (1:09:07) I'm not saying hundreds of thousands like it was a 101,000. (1:09:10) Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people have listened to that Omnipod five series. (1:09:14) Pretty cool how many people have been, been able to to get something out of it.

Kathleen (1:09:19) Well, it's amazing and the number of people that don't know how it works.

Scott Benner (1:09:23) Yeah. (1:09:23) Well, hopefully, it's gonna start working a little differently too because they're in the middle of updating the algorithm right now. (1:09:30) So be cool if it even jumped up a little bit, you know, in in its value for people. (1:09:36) But, Kathleen, I do actually have to go. (1:09:37) I'm sorry.

Scott Benner (1:09:38) I'm gonna cut you off.

Kathleen (1:09:38) Yeah. (1:09:38) I do too.

Scott Benner (1:09:39) Yep. (1:09:39) This is gonna be this

Kathleen (1:09:40) is it.

Scott Benner (1:09:41) Thank you. (1:09:41) This is gonna be out in about two months. (1:09:43) Okay?

Kathleen (1:09:43) Okay.

Scott Benner (1:09:44) Alright. (1:09:44) Awesome. (1:09:44) Thank you. (1:09:45) Take care.

Kathleen (1:09:46) You too.

Scott Benner (1:09:47) Bye bye. (1:09:55) Are you tired of getting a rash from your CGM adhesive? (1:09:58) Give the Eversense three sixty five a try. (1:10:01) Eversensecgm.com/juicebox. (1:10:04) Beautiful silicone that they use.

Scott Benner (1:10:06) It changes every day. (1:10:07) Keeps it fresh. (1:10:08) Not only that, you only have to change the sensor once a year. (1:10:11) So, I mean, that's better. (1:10:15) Head now to tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox and check out today's sponsor, Tandem Diabetes Care.

Scott Benner (1:10:22) I think you're gonna find exactly what you're looking for at that link, including a way to sign up and get started with the Tandem Mobi system. (1:10:30) The conversation you just enjoyed was brought to you by US Med. (1:10:34) Usmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. (1:10:41) Get started today and get your supplies from US Med. (1:10:46) Okay.

Scott Benner (1:10:46) Well, here we are at the end of the episode. (1:10:48) You're still with me? (1:10:49) Thank you. (1:10:50) I really do appreciate that. (1:10:52) What else could you do for me?

Scott Benner (1:10:54) Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? (1:10:57) Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribe in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me or Instagram, TikTok. (1:11:06) Oh, gosh. (1:11:07) Here's one. (1:11:08) Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page.

Scott Benner (1:11:14) You don't wanna miss please, do you not know about the private group? (1:11:18) You have to join the private group. (1:11:19) As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. (1:11:23) They're active talking about diabetes. (1:11:26) Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now.

Scott Benner (1:11:29) And I'm there all the time. (1:11:30) Tag me. (1:11:31) I'll say hi. (1:11:34) If you're new to type one diabetes, begin with the bold beginning series from the podcast. (1:11:39) Don't take my word for it.

Scott Benner (1:11:41) Listen to what reviewers have said. (1:11:43) Bold beginnings is the best first step. (1:11:45) I learned more in those episodes than anywhere else. (1:11:48) This is when everything finally clicked. (1:11:50) People say it takes the stress out of the early days and replaces it with clarity.

Scott Benner (1:11:54) They tell me this should come with the diagnosis packet that I got at the hospital. (1:11:58) And after they listen, they recommend it to everyone who's struggling. (1:12:02) It's straightforward, practical, and easy to listen to. (1:12:05) Bold Beginnings gives you the basics in a way that actually makes sense. (1:12:10) If you'd like to hear about diabetes management in easy to take in bits, check out the Small Sips.

Scott Benner (1:12:16) That's the series on the Juice Box podcast that listeners are talking about like it's a cheat code. (1:12:22) These are perfect little bursts of clarity, one person said. (1:12:25) I finally understood things I've heard a 100 times. (1:12:28) Short, simple, and somehow exactly what I needed. (1:12:31) People say small sips feels like someone pulling up a chair, sliding a cup across the table, and giving you one clean idea at a time.

Scott Benner (1:12:39) Nothing overwhelming, no fire hose of information, just steady helpful nudges that actually stick. (1:12:45) People listen in their car, on walks, or rather actually bolus ing anytime that they need a quick shot of perspective. (1:12:52) And the reviews, they all say the same thing. (1:12:55) Small sips makes diabetes make sense. (1:12:58) Search for the Juice Box podcast, small sips, wherever you get audio.

Scott Benner (1:13:03) If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. (1:13:09) Listen. (1:13:10) Truth be told, I'm, like, 20 smarter when Rob edits me. (1:13:13) He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go, and stuff like that. (1:13:19) And it just I don't know, man.

Scott Benner (1:13:20) Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? (1:13:23) And then I remember because I did one smart thing. (1:13:26) I hired Rob at wrongwayrecording.com.

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#1768 Break the Cycle

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

Dr. Ernie Fernandez discusses how sleep, social media, and T1D stress impact mental health, offering strategies to build resilience and break the cycle of generalized anxiety.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner (0:0) Welcome back, friends, to another episode of the Juice Box podcast. (0:12) Ernie Fernandez is not just a doctor. (0:13) He's not just an endocrinologist. (0:15) He's also the person in charge at Camp Sweeney, and we are giving away two slots today at Camp Sweeney. (0:23) But first, Ernie's gonna tell you a little bit about sleep, stress, anxiety, and how your cell phones might be messing with you.

Scott Benner (0:31) So we're gonna talk a little bit about that, then we're gonna pull the winners from the contest, and we're still gonna give away four more places at Camp Sweeney in 2026. (0:39) So don't stop entering at juiceboxpodcast.com/giveaways. (0:45) Get in there. (0:45) It's super simple to start. (0:47) It's super simple to enter.

Scott Benner (0:49) You don't have to do anything, and you'll get a chance. (0:52) And by the way, everybody who doesn't win today, everybody who's already entered, I'm leaving your name in for the next drawing. (0:57) What do you think of that? (0:59) Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:04) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.

Scott Benner (1:14) The episode you're about to listen to was sponsored by Touched by Type one. (1:19) Go check them out right now on Facebook, Instagram, and, of course, at touchedbytype1.org. (1:25) Check out that programs tab when you get to the website to see all the great things that they're doing for people living with type one diabetes. (1:32) Touched bytype1.org. (1:34) Today's episode is also sponsored by Tandem Moby, the impressively small insulin pump.

Scott Benner (1:40) The podcast is also sponsored today by Plus Technology. (1:45) It's designed for greater discretion, more freedom, and improved time and range. (1:49) Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. (1:55) The podcast is also sponsored today by the Eversense three sixty five. (2:00) The Eversense three sixty five has exceptional accuracy over one year and is the most accurate CGM in the low range that you can get.

Scott Benner (2:08) Ever since cgm.com/juicebox.

Ernie Fernandez (2:12) Thanks, Scott. (2:12) Thanks for having me on again. (2:14) Once again, I'm doctor Ernie Fernandez. (2:16) I'm the camp director at Camp Sweeney here in Northern Texas, and I've been blessed to be working with these children with type one diabetes for the 42 here at Camp Sweeney. (2:25) And I know, Scott, we had spoken a couple of months ago about one of the issues that's coming up a lot more and more, especially with the way much of the media has kinda changed in kids with type one and with the kids in general in dealing with stress and anxiety and and especially how it relates to our patients with type one.

Ernie Fernandez (2:46) And I was gonna just spend a few minutes talking a little bit about sort of the normal physiology behind that and ways that parents can can work with their kids, in helping them deal with some of those issues.

Scott Benner (2:57) Okay. (2:58) Yeah. (2:58) Are you seeing that in practice? (3:00) Are you seeing it at camp? (3:01) Or is it something that you feel like you're you're seeing coming from a lot of different perspectives?

Ernie Fernandez (3:07) I see it from a lot of perspectives. (3:09) I see it a lot in practice, not just with with patients with type one, but just in many of our younger and older teens and our young adults. (3:18) Social media has kind of fed into that quite a bit. (3:22) But with our patients with type one, it has really been something that has been magnified. (3:26) And and it it makes sense because when you think about how this starts to develop in these kids, you you know, the normal brain physiology of most children as they enter adolescence and late adolescence and young adulthood is that their that their higher functions of their brain start to develop rapidly.

Ernie Fernandez (3:45) You know, kids when they're 10 or 11 think like kids in a very linear way. (3:49) Know, You kids that are 21, 22 years of age think more like an adult in a very abstract way, and that brings the abilities for them to deal with many, many things. (3:58) But as that part of the brain develops quickly, the two hemispheres, the the need for that part of the brain to be to to be well fueled with neurotransmitters also increases. (4:09) And just in a normal situation with any child and young adult, that always lags. (4:14) You know, the brain's ability to make the neurotransmitter always lags the development of what's being needed.

Ernie Fernandez (4:21) And many things have kinda shifted in our world a little bit that don't make that as fruitful as it used to be in years past. (4:30) Part of that has to do with the fact that you only make those neurotransmitters during your deep stages of sleep, you know, during sort of the the the higher quality sleep. (4:39) And we don't live sort of in a society that kind of promotes that as much as it used to. (4:44) You know? (4:44) Kids of different ages need different amounts of sleeps.

Ernie Fernandez (4:47) Younger kids need more sleep. (4:48) They need, you know, nine to ten hours at night, while young adults need less sleep. (4:53) But it's not just the quantity, it's the quality of sleep and how they enter sleep and how they go through REM into deep stages of sleep. (5:01) And the problem is that many of our youth and even our adults have difficulty adopting patterns to get that kind of sleep. (5:11) You know, so many things are on people's plates, you know, whether it's sports or school or or things that involve them in social ways with their their colleagues.

Ernie Fernandez (5:22) But probably the biggest one that that seems to to be in the forefront is the amount of time that that we all spend on our screens and the addictions that sometimes these algorithms, you know, pull all of us into our screen time. (5:36) And that tends to excite our brain and makes it difficult for them to settle down and to get into deep sleep. (5:44) Now that's in anybody, whether they have type one or not. (5:46) Right. (5:47) And so people tend to go through times, you know, especially during these years where they need the most rest, not getting the kind of rest.

Ernie Fernandez (5:56) And what that leads to, of course, are are decompensation. (6:00) You know, these these wonderful young adults and, yeah, and adolescents will often just kinda run out of juice throughout the day. (6:07) You know, their their higher functions kind of decompensate, they become much more primal, and their anxieties kinda kinda take over, and they become sort of like they were when they were two or three. (6:17) You know? (6:18) They get unfocused.

Ernie Fernandez (6:19) They get very, you know, upset easy. (6:22) They and they have difficulty, you know, dealing with with many of the challenges that are posed to them. (6:28) But what happens in kids with type one is that they have a whole different level of issues that that decrease that normal physiologic sleep that they they should be getting. (6:40) You know, when you have type one diabetes, as of you know, Scott, you as a parent of a child know this. (6:45) It's it's sort of a hidden world that no one realized.

Ernie Fernandez (6:48) You know, these kids and these parents have a full time job that no one knows is happening. (6:53) You know, it's like, you know, when somebody hurts their foot and their foot is killing them and all they can do is think about their foot, and everything in their life revolves around that. (7:02) Well, you know, when you get type one diabetes, that's kinda like having something like that. (7:07) You know, even as you learn and you adopt to all these wonderful technologies and and pretty prudent protocols we teach our patients, it's still a full time management position. (7:18) And the problem with it is that no matter how, you know, how well you use your technologies, how well you follow your protocols, there's always some uncertainty with the outcomes outcomes each day.

Ernie Fernandez (7:29) Mhmm. (7:30) Because there's so many variables, as you well know, that affect diabetes, and that causes people when you have uncertain outcomes, all that does is it increases that excitability of your brain, the stress of your brain, which then makes it harder for these these kids and quite quite frankly their parents as well to have that deeper sleep because they're always concerned, okay. (7:53) Am I gonna go a little high? (7:54) Am I gonna go low? (7:55) Did I do the right thing here and there?

Ernie Fernandez (7:57) And then that causes them to de deplete themselves a little bit more and and allows them to decompensate into some of these these larger forms of anxiety that, as I said, all kids, but especially kids with type one are much more susceptible to. (8:12) And that's that's really what you know, I spend a lot of my my day talking to patients with you know, yes, I talk to them about, you know, the newest pump and and the newest things that we can be doing. (8:23) But most of the time, I'm talking to them about, you know, how to take care of themselves and and be able to be successful, basically, with their two full time jobs that they now have, which is living their normal lives that they were living in, of course, you know, dealing with with the type one that very few people relate to outside of their their own little world. (8:43) And so that's really what makes kids with type one so much more susceptible to to this kind of stress and anxiety, and there's many ways to to to work with that. (8:55) And one of the things that I'll give as a disclaimer at the very beginning is that it's very important, whether you're a parent or you're a health care provider, that you're looking closely at the big picture because what you sometimes miss in a child who's going through the normal stresses of type one or a family that's working with a child is that some kids will get themselves really in a hole.

Ernie Fernandez (9:18) They they drain themselves so much of of their neurotransmitters that they they don't just go from having anxiety, which all kids with type one have in one way or another, but they go into what's called generalized anxiety disorder where they never surface. (9:34) No matter what they do, they they they never get the rest, and and they get themselves into a bit of a of a cycle that that's hard for them to break. (9:42) And those kids, besides the normal things that we use to to decrease and and to inspire kids to deal with the anxieties, you know, sometimes need additional help. (9:52) They they need to come see somebody, you know, like a professional like myself, a physician that works with kids with this that, you know, they may need somebody to help them with with some specific skills with counseling. (10:02) And and sometimes these kids also, you know, need medication because they've gotten themselves into into such a a hole that that it's hard to get out of.

Ernie Fernandez (10:12) You know, our goal today is just to talk about some of the things that help kids from, you know, putting themselves in into that hole.

Scott Benner (10:18) Are there ways to impact it? (10:20) Because, Ernie, I I you know, I've interviewed thousands of people and I had to stop myself at one point along the way from believing that the whole world was just anxiety ridden. (10:29) But I started to see that I think it's possible that people living with autoimmune issues maybe have a higher prevalence of of anxiety for a number of different, you know, reasons. (10:39) Cortisol, I don't know, gut health, like, kinds of different ideas. (10:42) Right?

Ernie Fernandez (10:43) There's so many components to

Scott Benner (10:45) it. (10:45) Yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (10:46) But at the end of the day, you know, you go from anxiety that everyone has, which is not good or bad. (10:51) I mean, anxiety pushes people to do things. (10:53) And so anxiety is almost, you know, something that that in many ways, you know, pushes us to do well with our things to where you cross over to where you actually have an, you know, an anxiety disorder where you can't see yourself coming out of that. (11:08) Mhmm. (11:08) In other words, you've drained your neurotransmitters to a point, and they they could drain for a variety of reasons.

Ernie Fernandez (11:13) Sometimes it's poor gut health that they're not absorbing the omegas that they need for that development. (11:20) But most of the time, if you look back and you look at all the current data that's come out post COVID, you know, it comes from the lack of the normal sleep cycles that many kids put themselves out of, and it's because people can't settle themselves down. (11:34) They become so rightfully so obsessed on on doing all the little things in their life, not only the normal things in their lives, but also the things that are t one d, then when it's time to go to bed, their brain's going a million miles per hour, and it's very hard to slow it down to allow us to go into natural sleep. (11:52) And then you add you layer on that, you know, being on a a device before you go to bed. (11:57) And many times, know, kids of type one have devices right on them because they're using them, obviously, to monitor their things.

Ernie Fernandez (12:02) And they pick it up, and they're starting they look at their device, and then suddenly they're looking at apps, and suddenly they're looking at social media. (12:08) And so the prefrontal cortex gets more wound up, and when they fall asleep, they end their sleep sort of in the wrong order. (12:14) They start REM sleep and and sort of going into the stage sleep. (12:18) And then the next day, they're back with a low gas tank again, and and it leads to the uncontrolled anxiety.

Scott Benner (12:24) Right.

Ernie Fernandez (12:24) And so, you know, part of that is, you know, teaching skills, you know, basic mental health skills, having nighttime routines, you know, that get people in in you know, away from their devices an hour before bed, you know, locking down their devices to just have their pump functions or their CGM functions. (12:42) You know, I even recommend some of those devices, you know, like the Pixel device that you can have where you don't have to have your device so close to you. (12:50) You have that to go off if if you need it to go off. (12:53) You go through teaching, you know, kids how how to do things at night that don't require screens, reading things that slow the brain down.

Scott Benner (13:01) Mhmm.

Ernie Fernandez (13:01) But, you know, at the end of the day, it's all about how you deal. (13:05) We have the decompensations. (13:07) You know, how do you deal when you think you have everything put together and the next day something happens and, you know, your your pump has been bad and your your blood sugar is 400 and you're having to deal with that stress. (13:19) And part of that is creating environments that parents you know, and parents do this. (13:25) You know, parents, you know, are very devoted to their kids.

Ernie Fernandez (13:29) My patients, and I'm sure the ones you work with, and I'm you work with thousands yourself, you know, are always wanting the best for their children. (13:36) And, you know, it's all about trying to get kids to deal with the decompensations and to basically get resilience because it's gonna happen. (13:46) You know, they're gonna decompensate for a number of reasons, not just from their diabetes, but other things that go through that. (13:53) And, you know, resilience is the perseverance of getting through something that's tough and being able to start over again, and you start over again. (14:00) And it sounds easy to say.

Ernie Fernandez (14:02) It's difficult to do. (14:04) And so what you have to do is you have to create, you know, situations where the successes are so sweet for these kids that they have that desire to push themselves up. (14:18) You know? (14:18) Many times, you know, we all fall many times every day in our lives, not just with diabetes, but that falls can either lead to the biggest enemy, which is discouragement, which keeps you from wanting to get back up, to falling and saying, I know what it felt like when I was doing great, Mhmm. (14:37) And I want that feeling again, and I long for that feeling.

Ernie Fernandez (14:40) And that's what gives so many of these kids that strength to to make that happen. (14:44) Because the alternative is, of course, is that discouragement and the loss of hope, And then kids just all the king's horses, all the king's men can't get that that kid back up again. (14:55) And so that's what is a key to that.

Scott Benner (14:58) Yeah. (14:58) Where do you think is the easiest spot to break the cycle? (15:01) Because if it starts with, I don't know, poor sleep, and then you wake up the next day and you have diabetes and that's hard and, like, you know, I'm reading about stuff here while you're talking. (15:11) A cytokine storm, when an autoimmune flare occurs, the body releases inflammatory proteins called cytokines. (15:16) These don't just stay in the joints or your thyroid, for example.

Scott Benner (15:19) They can cross the blood brain barrier. (15:21) Once they're there, they disrupt neurotransmitters, specifically lowering serotonin. (15:24) Like, when that's also happening to you and everything else, then at the end of the day, once you've lived through that horrible day and you and you're laying down in bed, I don't know if you've ever tried TikTok or any. (15:35) It's awesome. (15:36) Like, so, like, when you so when you have

Ernie Fernandez (15:38) Flex you right into it.

Scott Benner (15:39) When that's the way you're trying to calm down, relax, you know, turn your brain off, whatever it is, like, where in that cycle because you're gonna have to pick a spot to jump in and say, this is the thing we're gonna do to see if it loosens up the nut for the next thing so that we can try to get this all working better. (15:57) Where do you see people having more success, or is it variable person to person? (16:02) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Eversense three sixty five. (16:08) And just as the name says, it lasts for a full year. (16:12) Imagine for a second a CGM with just one sensor placement and one warm up period every year.

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Ernie Fernandez (18:16) You have to do it in lots of spots. (18:18) You can't just say, I'm gonna fix it in one spot, it's gonna do it all. (18:21) Okay. (18:21) So you start with the sleep first. (18:23) You know, you you do the the conducive thing.

Ernie Fernandez (18:26) You know, people say, what about supplements? (18:27) What supplements help with this? (18:29) Well, you know, a lot of good work has been done on on magnesium and using a small amount of magnesium before bed. (18:35) It's very safe to use the the gluconide of that, you know, for most young adults, adolescents, two to four hundred milligrams, is a great way to help them, you know, have that unwinding. (18:48) Every person reaches for a device to try to unwind because they think if they do this enough, you know, scroll enough

Scott Benner (18:54) Yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (18:54) That that's gonna make them get numb and wanna fall asleep when, obviously, it does just the opposite because the algorithms are so driven to go keeping you there from fifteen minutes to thirty to forty five minutes.

Scott Benner (19:06) Yeah. (19:06) Yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (19:06) Yeah. (19:06) It's And at the same time, it it uses up so much neurotransmitter to decipher the video that it just takes you off. (19:14) So, you know, putting those away from you as much as you can without losing connection to your devices is a critical element. (19:21) But, really, it's a bigger picture item. (19:23) You know, from a parent's point of view, it's about making sure kids have things that they that they can succeed in each day, whether it has to do with diabetes or not, whether it's, you know, something, you know, athletic, something that's, you know, in the theater, something that's wherever it is, creating an environment that they can taste success is critical.

Ernie Fernandez (19:46) Mhmm. (19:46) You know, we talked last fall a lot about Camp Sweeney and the four pillars and how that all works. (19:51) And part of that, of course, is creating environments where there's something for every child to touch that success, whether it's something they've never done in their life, something they're trying to do. (20:00) Because once you get that feeling of of sort of glory in you

Scott Benner (20:05) Yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (20:05) You wanna strive for that every time. (20:08) And people that's what makes people want to to break the cycle because you have to have the desire to want to break the cycle. (20:15) Nobody wants to put their phone away. (20:17) Nobody wants to do that. (20:18) But if you know that putting the phone away makes you feel that great feeling, that euphoria the next day, you can start breaking that cycle, and and you have to because it's all interconnected.

Ernie Fernandez (20:31) Yeah. (20:31) You know? (20:32) If you can get more neurotransmitter in your brain, you can make a little bit more serotonin without having to take an SRI. (20:38) That changes everything. (20:40) That changes your ability to compensate with so many things that you produce less stress hormone, and so you make less cortisol.

Ernie Fernandez (20:47) So you have less in you know, you have less of those things that causes to to get back in that hole. (20:53) And so creating those environment of successes is great. (20:56) I work with many, many families, and I think, okay. (20:59) What's the one thing your child, you know, strive can can strive in? (21:02) And you try to put them in those things, you know, whether it is soccer, tennis, or basketball.

Ernie Fernandez (21:08) That's what you know, as I don't wanna go into this right now, but, you know, that's what camp swinging has been driven to do for the last seventy six years is to find things for every child that allows them to just shine.

Scott Benner (21:21) Right.

Ernie Fernandez (21:22) And then you create this community. (21:24) You expand the scope, and you put them in a community that all has that second job, that all has those tough time, and they all celebrate each other's successes. (21:35) That's what allows them to retain the hope. (21:38) I am like you. (21:40) You talk to thousands of people.

Ernie Fernandez (21:41) I've been doing this forty two years, and so I don't talk to thousands of people, but, boy, especially during the holidays. (21:46) I talk to people of all ages with diabetes in their thirties, their forties, their fifties. (21:52) I don't wanna age myself here. (21:54) But everybody talks about you know, they struggle with certain things, and god forbid, you know, when we lose a precious one, we all come together and we struggle. (22:04) But everybody talks about the resilience they have because everybody comes together as part of their community.

Ernie Fernandez (22:11) You know, whether it be the Sweeney community that's tens of thousands of big, but other communities with type one where people are so connected that they care about each other. (22:20) Just recently, and I I won't say this name, I I I heard from a a beautiful young man who was in Sweeney for eight years. (22:26) Last year, he was 28. (22:28) And he's a wonderful guy. (22:29) He's got kids.

Ernie Fernandez (22:30) He's grown. (22:30) He's done volunteer work around the world, and I'm so proud of him. (22:34) But he's had some difficulties with with other health issues that have just hit him hard, but the community riles around them. (22:43) And that's what gives them hope. (22:44) That's what gives them the inspiration.

Ernie Fernandez (22:46) Yeah. (22:46) And that's really what you try to do. (22:49) You try to create every little bit of it that that matters, not just the successes, but the community around it. (22:56) You know, our the Camps Wee PFC life, which, you know, the perseverance, faith, courage, life nights that we do, you know, two, three times a week throughout the country. (23:04) That's all part of that is trying to connect those communities.

Ernie Fernandez (23:07) Right. (23:07) Because that's that's what keeps these kids, you know, going and keeps them from the getting into that cycle. (23:16) But I will say, I do treat so many patients that have true GAD, generalized anxiety disorder, and you have to know when other things are needed. (23:25) You have to know when counseling of this particular type is helpful, and you need to be aware of when an SSRI is needed. (23:33) You know, people say, oh, I don't wanna get on any kind of medication.

Ernie Fernandez (23:36) That would just be terrible. (23:37) But sometimes you have to break the cycle somehow. (23:41) Mhmm. (23:41) Even if it's a short term thing that you do for ninety days or you do for a hundred and twenty days, the cycle has to be broken so that the person has the chance to get back on top and get that resilience, get that push to wanna succeed. (23:55) And that's that's really an important thing.

Ernie Fernandez (23:58) And I I don't I don't want people to think, oh, you know, I should never look for those things. (24:03) There are times when you you need to do that. (24:05) I actually, since the pandemic, I've had to treat more patients with medication than I've had in my entire career. (24:12) And I think a lot of it is because people are using this as a tool to try to break the cycle as opposed to to doing the things that that make more sense and healthy for people.

Scott Benner (24:22) Do you think there are people in better positions to deal with this than others and but yet, do you see it, I guess, across all of those levels? (24:30) Like, I was just having this conversation with someone this morning about, like, work level. (24:35) And today, you and I are it's the day after Christmas, Ernie. (24:38) There are not a lot of people working today. (24:39) Right?

Ernie Fernandez (24:40) Mhmm.

Scott Benner (24:40) And so, like, you and I are working. (24:41) I don't think anything of it. (24:43) I was up this morning. (24:45) I had at some point this morning, I had three devices in front of me. (24:49) On one of them, I was learning audio about something that I like to do for myself recreationally.

Scott Benner (24:55) I had a computer in front of me where I was coding something to put on the website to help people bolus better. (25:01) And on the third device, I was trying to learn about a mattress that my daughter and I are going out to get this afternoon for her. (25:07) And I was talking to a friend of mine at the same time who was helping me moderate the Facebook group, and we were talking about somebody they knew who said, oh, they they needed a break. (25:17) And she laughed, she's like, I I haven't had a break in so long, but I don't even know what I would do with it. (25:22) And so for someone like her or someone like me or maybe you too, I don't really want a break.

Scott Benner (25:27) I like doing things. (25:28) I like going. (25:29) I was just sharing with her today. (25:31) This is almost apropos of nothing and yet fits right in here. (25:34) I created something that works really well.

Scott Benner (25:38) It's a physical thing in my house. (25:40) And all I've been thinking about for the past three months and what any free time I've had is doing it better and throwing out the old one and trying again. (25:48) So I don't feel that way. (25:49) But there are other people whose brains are just not wired like that. (25:52) And they also have autoimmune issues and stress and they live through COVID and they're 10 and somebody's making fun of them.

Scott Benner (25:58) Like, all that other stuff is going to. (26:00) My question is is could someone wired like me fall into this? (26:04) I believe yes. (26:06) And could someone not wired like me fall into this? (26:09) I also believe yes.

Scott Benner (26:10) Is the path pathway out the same for both of us? (26:12) Do we both have the same chance of breaking the cycle and starting over, do you think?

Ernie Fernandez (26:16) Absolutely. (26:17) But Yeah. (26:17) Don't get me wrong. (26:19) Doing nothing doesn't help anyone. (26:21) It just increases people people's anxiety.

Scott Benner (26:24) Yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (26:24) You know, doing the things you're good at. (26:26) Like, I have multiple jobs. (26:28) I'm here in my office right now seeing pediatric patients start back in about twenty minutes.

Scott Benner (26:31) Mhmm.

Ernie Fernandez (26:32) You know, I work at Children's Health, and I'm taking care of kids with diabetes once a a week. (26:36) And then, of course, I run Camp Sweeney, which is a year round thing that I spend every night where I probably spend sixty, seventy hours a week in addition to these two jobs doing Cam Sweeney. (26:45) Yeah. (26:45) And you're thinking, how are you preaching, you know, normal, good mental health? (26:49) Well, that's good mental health because I'm doing things that that fulfill things that that that I I'm passionate about.

Ernie Fernandez (26:56) I'm passionate about, you know, trying to make sure the kids with with type one, for example, have tremendous opportunities to be able to get out of these threats. (27:05) Not just when they're kids, but, like, as adults, you know, when they they fall many, many times.

Scott Benner (27:10) Right.

Ernie Fernandez (27:10) You know? (27:11) I like, a young man just called me about three months ago. (27:14) He's 32 years old. (27:15) Okay? (27:16) And he yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (27:17) I haven't seen him in fourteen, fifteen years. (27:20) And he just said, doctor Ernie, I just called. (27:22) He just because I just have one question. (27:24) Does it ever get any easier? (27:26) And I said, what do you mean by that?

Ernie Fernandez (27:28) And he goes, well, you know, my diabetes. (27:29) And I said, well, you know, it doesn't get easier. (27:34) You just learn how to do hard better. (27:36) Mhmm. (27:36) Because people of type one, as you well know, are pretty much stronger than most anyone else.

Ernie Fernandez (27:42) You know, they have the super strength to take something and just, you know, and do a great job with it. (27:51) Yeah. (27:51) But the problem is they all can run into the pitfalls of the little pit that we were just talking about, where suddenly that word that I can't stand, d, comes in, discouragement. (28:02) They just get discouraged for one reason. (28:04) They forget what it felt like, you know, in that time of success, in that time of this, and that's what leads the you know, sadly, with many of our older patients, sometimes a loss of hope.

Ernie Fernandez (28:15) And all the stuff I've been talking about here this afternoon, how do you avoid those pitfalls? (28:20) We're all gonna hit them. (28:21) We're all gonna get discouraged sometime in our lives. (28:23) I mean, that just happens because just the fact of how our lives go. (28:29) But how do you steer away from them?

Ernie Fernandez (28:31) How do you overcome that? (28:32) How do you get that resilience? (28:34) Well, part of it is the adversity. (28:35) I mean, just the adversity itself makes you stronger. (28:38) But what keeps you on top of it is that longing of what what it feels like to be on the other side.

Ernie Fernandez (28:45) Yeah. (28:45) And that's what I I remind every person, you know, what they have. (28:50) You know, I I know this it is Christmas time, and you always think about, you know, these these movies like, you know, it's a wonderful life and, you know, the the the poor man who got you know, was so discouraged by all the things in his life, but he he forgot those things on the other side. (29:04) And that's how it is with type one. (29:06) Everybody does have a different path.

Ernie Fernandez (29:09) It all comes down to having the strength to get back up. (29:13) And, you know, last year, I had a long podcast where you're talking about the four pillars of how camp Sweeney works. (29:18) And every one of those pillars is designed to and I I believe me. (29:23) I've spent my entire life obsessing on how to kindly adjust those and adjust those and adjust those year after year to try to get people to have that not when they're 15, but, like, when they're 35. (29:37) And when they're 45, they can fall back on something that that's that bedrock for them to push back up on because that's what it's really about with type one.

Ernie Fernandez (29:47) Yes. (29:47) The technologies are gonna change. (29:49) You probably your podcasts are wonderful. (29:50) You're talking about this and that and all this wonderful stuff. (29:54) But at the end of the day, it's just the same thing.

Ernie Fernandez (29:58) Type one is type one. (29:59) And the the challenges are gonna be there whether you have the most sophisticated system or the simplest of systems. (30:07) And the real challenge is avoiding the discouragement and and pushing oneself through these these things I mentioned that that help you produce more serotonin, trying to get the deeper sleep, you know, trying to avoid the pitfalls of getting sucked into those algorithms. (30:23) You know, you say you use screens all day. (30:25) I use screens all day too.

Ernie Fernandez (30:26) I walk around with this laptop right over here from room to room constantly. (30:30) But, you know, they did a good neat little study back in the COVID days when people were were co, you know, co learning on on screen. (30:37) When you're just using the screen as a tool, you're not sucked into it. (30:41) You're not so focused that you're looking at all the pixels that it's draining the heck out of your brain. (30:45) Right.

Ernie Fernandez (30:45) What makes you get sucked into screens are things that you're having to constantly interact with, like a video game or or these algorithmic things that are on all of these these social media things where suddenly time just stops where you go from ten minutes to an hour, and you've been staring at one little screen as opposed to using your your screens because you're writing on a chart or you're working on coding this or you're working on looking for this. (31:09) That's a totally different level of engagement with your brain and the screen, and that's not harmful. (31:14) And and that's why kids that have the screens on their on their the buy on themselves, where they use them for their CGM, where they use them, you know, obviously, for their pumps or whatnot, that doesn't drain them because they just use it as a quick little tool. (31:25) Their brain doesn't have to engage and try to de decipher what's happening on the screen. (31:30) So there is different levels there.

Scott Benner (31:31) Right. (31:32) Yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (31:32) And, you

Scott Benner (31:33) know You basically have been given a slot machine, which is, you know, been designed decades ago to put you down and and in in a seat, make you not wanna move, and somehow dull you enough that as you're losing money to it, you think, no. (31:49) This is still a good idea. (31:51) Right? (31:51) There's going to be there's something's going to happen. (31:54) I don't know if anybody's ever noticed this.

Scott Benner (31:56) Online gambling is very prevalent at this point. (31:58) Right? (31:59) But if you've ever sat in front of a machine or done something on like that, you can put a dollar into something, lose 80¢, and the noises and the sounds make you feel like you're you won something. (32:09) It'll say you won 20¢. (32:11) It'd be like, no.

Scott Benner (32:11) I put a dollar in there. (32:13) I lost 80¢, but it doesn't feel like that. (32:15) TikTok does the same thing. (32:17) Right? (32:18) Like, all the apps are designed that way.

Scott Benner (32:20) There's a great documentary. (32:21) I don't know the name of it. (32:23) Go find it. (32:23) It's by one of the people who who designed what do they call it? (32:27) Like, forever scrolling.

Scott Benner (32:29) Like, do you remember you used to scroll to the bottom of something and eventually would say, you're out

Ernie Fernandez (32:32) of Stop.

Scott Benner (32:32) Yeah. (32:33) You're out of content now. (32:34) Now it just it just uses what it what you paused on the longest. (32:39) So the thing that you're more likely to look at again, it just regenerates and gives you more. (32:43) You know, people call it doom scrolling colloquially, but there there's an actual name for it.

Scott Benner (32:48) And it's so devastating, Ernie, that the man who designed it has publicly apologized for it. (32:54) Yeah.

Ernie Fernandez (32:55) And and I know we're we're out of time, but I will tell you that it is not just what it's doing to your brain and draining your neurotransmitters. (33:02) It's also like we talked about last year, you know, when we talked about the four pillars. (33:06) It it's teaching people what to value. (33:09) Mhmm. (33:10) It insidiously tells you that if you're like this person, you're valuable in society.

Ernie Fernandez (33:16) If you're like this person and you're taking this substance abuse substance or you're following this thing or you're good at at hurting yourself in this way or tearing other people down, that's valuable. (33:28) Mhmm. (33:28) And so people lose their own value. (33:31) I mean, that they devalue them. (33:32) So that's why the third pillar of Sweeney is all about, you know, what we possess or what we truly possess, you know, the true virtues we have.

Ernie Fernandez (33:39) Because you get to believe what's on that scroll. (33:42) I mean, you believe what's on that scroll like it's it's it's truth. (33:46) And as a result, kids devalue themselves tremendously, and that leads once again to them to not having a want to get back up, and it leads to that discouragement again, which is the biggest enemy I think kids with type one have in in my opinion. (34:02) It's not just the pump side going bad. (34:04) It's something much greater.

Ernie Fernandez (34:06) And so that's that's really what I spend my year doing is trying to to empower these kids.

Scott Benner (34:12) Right. (34:12) Well, I appreciate you coming on to talk about it. (34:14) You're actually also here because we are gonna pick winners. (34:18) So Ernie and I are giving away six spots at Camp Sweeney in 2026. (34:25) And I have the first, I think, 50 people have put in their their entries.

Scott Benner (34:30) By the way, you can enter it juiceboxpodcast.com/giveaways. (34:34) Now I wanna tell everybody that everybody who doesn't win today, we're gonna pull two today. (34:38) Everybody who doesn't win, their name stays in for the next drawing where we're gonna pull two more, and then we're gonna pull two again so that it we've given a total of six spots away at camp, before the twenty twenty six season starts. (34:50) We'll be doing that through the winter here in 2026. (34:54) But, Ernie, they do have to pay something.

Scott Benner (34:56) Right? (34:56) So not only do they have to get themselves there. (34:58) So travel's not included, but there's a $500. (35:01) Can you explain that part?

Ernie Fernandez (35:03) That's that's the deposit. (35:04) And, you know, it, you know, it costs $6,100 for us to have somebody go to Camp Sweeney. (35:09) We're we ask families to to to pay 4,900 of it, and I we we fundraise the rest. (35:15) And then we have we do have scholarships for kids that that are financially need as well. (35:19) About half of our kids come on something.

Ernie Fernandez (35:22) But for the people on this giveaway, we have them pay the $500 deposit. (35:27) And the reason we do that, Scott, is simply because it's occupying a spot. (35:31) Yeah. (35:32) And sometimes when people get something for free, they'll occupy a spot that someone else could have had Mhmm. (35:37) And then it doesn't mean anything to them.

Ernie Fernandez (35:39) And so we asked for the deposit because of the fact that it it's secure you know, we're not turning someone else away Sure. (35:47) From it. (35:48) And so we feel it's a small amount of the entire value that they get from from going to Sweeney. (35:54) This year, it's magnificent summer twenty twenty six, and I'm more excited this summer than you know, I I keep saying this every year. (36:01) You know, it's my forty second year.

Ernie Fernandez (36:03) Every year is a totally different thing at Sweeney because we you have no idea how purpose driven we are. (36:09) You know, our group of program directors meet every Monday night for a couple of hours from September through through May to constantly titrate how these pillars work and how we make that better for each child. (36:23) And every Tuesday, our medical directors meet constantly working on the algorithms and the data. (36:28) It's unbelievable, the data that they did this year. (36:31) We had a big conference in December where they took hundreds of thousands of blood sugars from the summer, and they looked at every modality, whether it was an Omnipod five or it was a Moby or whatever it was for every age and gender, and looked at every aspect of all eighteen days that the kids are at camp.

Ernie Fernandez (36:48) If there were a 12 year old boy on the sixth day in the morning, how did a Moby do compared to an Omnipod five? (36:55) How did it do compared to a Medtronic device? (36:57) And they constantly are changing our internal protocol so that we can maximize the time on control. (37:03) Because our first pillar is getting the kids to feel normal while they're at camp. (37:06) And I am very proud to say that if you take the entire aggregate of all the kids that went to Camp Sweeney in the 2025, no matter if they were on shots or MDIs, whether they were on any kind of modality, and you look at all of their blood sugars for the summer, and you look at what their time and range is as an aggregate, remember, this is people from all over the world, all over the country that have hemoglobin a one c's that are either in their fives or unfortunately pretty high, our time and range was close to 69% Look at that.

Ernie Fernandez (37:34) Which is unbelievable. (37:35) I mean, not for one person, you think, well, that's a pretty low time and rate. (37:39) But when you take an aggregate get and you put people through a program like this with all these different modalities and you can accomplish that, let me tell you, it takes an entire year of work to make sure that you're ready for that for the next summer to try to enhance the best you can with those kids. (37:54) And so we have a lot of wonderful things in in 2026, and I'm excited to have two two people coming on board here today.

Scott Benner (38:02) Alright. (38:02) We're gonna pick their name, but let me agree with you for a second. (38:04) I think surrounding yourself with people who are all have a common goal of, you know, living a healthier life is the secret to this. (38:12) You have to have good tools. (38:13) You need to know what you're doing, but you do need to be supported all the time.

Scott Benner (38:17) I'll share with you this morning. (38:19) I got a little frustrated. (38:20) I saw someone post something in my Facebook group. (38:22) My Facebook group has 78,000 members as of today. (38:26) And someone said, hey.

Scott Benner (38:28) Did you know look at this. (38:30) This is crazy. (38:31) If you cool pasta off and eat it reheated, it doesn't impact your blood sugar as much. (38:35) And I thought and I I almost drove my head through the countertop because I've said that about a thousand times in that podcast. (38:41) And all I could think was, if you were listening to the podcast, you would already know this.

Scott Benner (38:45) And I but I don't feel like don't get me wrong, like, Ernie. (38:48) I'm like, I don't feel snarky about it. (38:49) It's just it's hard as a person who puts it out there all the time just goes watch somebody's realize that they've been struggling unnecessarily, and they've made their way all the way to the place, didn't take the last step of the podcast. (39:00) So I made a post about it just saying, hey. (39:03) Listen.

Scott Benner (39:03) Imagine what else might be in that podcast that you don't know. (39:06) Get together. (39:06) And people started coming and talking about it. (39:08) This one guy named Matt, I'm gonna use his first name, because he comes on and said something that just indicated to me that he was a listener. (39:16) It wasn't even anything deep.

Scott Benner (39:17) And I responded back, and I said, Matt said something in his reply that indicates to me that he listened to the podcast. (39:22) I don't know who Matt is, but I'm gonna guess right now that he's got an a one c between 55 and six 5. (39:28) Right? (39:28) And he came back on and said, oh my god. (39:30) My my a one c is 55.

Scott Benner (39:33) I was diagnosed at 13. (39:34) I found the podcast. (39:35) It's 55 now. (39:36) And that to me, I was like, look, guys. (39:38) There.

Scott Benner (39:38) There's your review. (39:39) Surround yourself with people trying to do good for themselves. (39:43) Good will come for you. (39:44) You know? (39:45) Anyway, we have two winners.

Scott Benner (39:47) The first two winners, you're gonna have to pay the $500 deposit, get yourself to Texas, and get yourself home. (39:52) And this is an interesting split, Ernie. (39:53) We have somebody who has been to your camp for three years and loves it. (39:57) So Hampton Madison Madison, excuse me. (40:00) Congratulations.

Scott Benner (40:01) Your child, Cooper, is going. (40:04) Contact me. (40:04) Cooper has attended Camp Sweeney for three years. (40:07) The family flies all the way. (40:08) Boy, talk about a review.

Scott Benner (40:09) The family flies from Colorado Springs to Texas for it. (40:13) That's how much they love it. (40:15) Talks about the immense relief of the eighteen day break, that that they experienced. (40:19) That's the other thing. (40:20) Ernie, you're you're inviting those kids out for nearly three weeks.

Scott Benner (40:22) It's not a not a short thing. (40:24) The second winner, Michael Gambrell. (40:27) Congratulations. (40:28) Your daughter, Newt, has won. (40:30) Michael wants to experience a deep sense of belonging and community that Sweeney offers.

Scott Benner (40:34) So, thank you so much. (40:35) Everybody else, keep going to that link, juiceboxpodcast.com/giveaways. (40:40) It's super simple to enter, and we'll pick two more. (40:43) Yeah. (40:44) I I won't drag Ernie out for the next one, but we'll pick two more maybe in a month or so and do it again a month after that.

Scott Benner (40:49) And six of you will, will have a great story to tell sometime later this summer.

Ernie Fernandez (40:53) And I I will mention to to Scott that people that live far away, if if they don't want especially if their kids already come to camp once or twice, you know, we we offer a service called point to point. (41:03) They pay an additional fee, and they can just we have if they take a direct flight from Boston or from wherever they're coming from, Florida, wherever they're coming from, we our medical staff meets them at at DFW Airport, picks them up, brings them up on a charter bus, and and gets them enrolled so the family doesn't actually have to make the trip both ways. (41:22) Basically, there's a one way or both ways, sometimes they'll bring them down to meet all the staff, but then we send them back on point to point Mhmm. (41:29) So they don't have to come all the way down to Texas. (41:31) To that.

Scott Benner (41:31) Ernie will FedEx your

Ernie Fernandez (41:32) families use that.

Scott Benner (41:33) Ernie will FedEx your kid to camp. (41:35) Look at that. (41:36) Yeah. (41:37) Get him in a nice box. (41:38) It'll be comfortable.

Scott Benner (41:38) They'll be fine. (41:40) You do amazing work, Ernie. (41:41) I appreciate you sharing this with me. (41:43) I don't know if there is an answer that's strong enough to break how awesome Instagram Reels is or whatever, but I can tell you this, and I hope you you find this to be helpful. (41:52) As a person who makes content, I'm seeing it all shift again.

Scott Benner (41:57) So for a number of years, the algorithm's been beating on my head. (42:01) Make your stuff shorter. (42:02) Make it simpler. (42:03) Make it fancier. (42:04) And I've avoided that.

Scott Benner (42:05) I've ignored it, and I haven't done it. (42:07) And right now, I'm actually seeing some of those algorithms. (42:11) I think they've depleted how much they think they can ring out of people twenty seconds at a time, and longer form content is starting to come back. (42:18) So hopefully, maybe more thoughtful ways of sharing things will be coming through people's screens in the future.

Ernie Fernandez (42:24) That is wonderful.

Scott Benner (42:25) I got

Ernie Fernandez (42:25) my fingers great work, Scott. (42:27) Thank you.

Scott Benner (42:27) You're welcome. (42:28) You're awesome. (42:29) Happy New Year. (42:29) Merry Christmas. (42:30) It's it's lovely to see you.

Ernie Fernandez (42:32) Thank you. (42:32) Yep.

Scott Benner (42:40) Okay. (42:41) Head over now to juiceboxpodcast.com/giveaways and enter your child in the drawing to win one of those remaining four slots at Camp Sweeney. (42:50) You're not gonna wanna miss it. (42:51) Check it out at campsweeney.org too if you don't know what Camp Sweeney is, but you gotta join the giveaway to have a chance to win. (43:00) The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care.

Scott Benner (43:05) Learn more about Tandem's newest automated insulin delivery system, Tandem Mobi with Control IQ plus technology at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. (43:15) There are links in the show notes and links at juiceboxpodcast.com. (43:21) Are you tired of getting a rash from your CGM adhesive? (43:25) Give the Eversense three sixty five a try. (43:27) Eversense cgm.com/juicebox.

Scott Benner (43:31) Beautiful silicone that they use. (43:32) It changes every day. (43:33) Keeps it fresh. (43:35) Not only that, you only have to change the sensor once a year. (43:38) So, I mean, that's better.

Scott Benner (43:42) Touched by Type one sponsored this episode of the Juice Box podcast. (43:46) Check them out at touchedbytype1.org on Instagram and Facebook. (43:51) Give them a follow. (43:52) Go check out what they're doing. (43:54) They are helping people with type one diabetes in ways you just can't imagine.

Scott Benner (44:00) Thank you so much for listening. (44:02) I'll be back very soon with another episode of the juice box podcast. (44:05) If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app, like Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please do that now. (44:13) Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. (44:17) If you go a little further in Apple Podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend.

Scott Benner (44:24) And if you leave a five star review, oh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. (44:28) Would you like a Christmas card? (44:40) If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. (44:47) Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. (44:50) But everybody is welcome.

Scott Benner (44:51) Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. (44:56) If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, Type one Diabetes on Facebook. (45:05) I created the diabetes variable series because I know that in type one diabetes management, the little things aren't that little, and they really add up. (45:13) In this series, we'll break down everyday factors like stress, sleep, exercise, and those other variables that impact your day more than you might think. (45:21) Jenny Smith and I are gonna get straight to the point with practical advice that you can trust.

Scott Benner (45:26) So check out the diabetes variable series in your podcast player or at juiceboxpodcast.com. (45:33) If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. (45:39) Listen. (45:39) Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. (45:43) He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go, and stuff like that.

Scott Benner (45:48) And it just I don't know, man. (45:50) Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? (45:53) And then I remember because I did one smart thing. (45:55) I hired Rob at wrongwayrecording.com.

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#1767 Bolus 4 - Chicken Pot A.I. Pie

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

Scott and Jenny utilize a homemade chicken pot pie recipe to demonstrate how to calculate a complex insulin dose involving high fat and protein content. Scott reveals he has developed an AI Strategy Engine by training models on years of podcast data and clinical methods to break down the bolus.

Key Takeaways

• Human Intuition vs. AI Precision: Scott Benner tests a newly developed AI "Strategy Engine" prompt against CDE Jenny Smith’s professional mental math to see how closely a deep-research model can replicate expert clinical advice.
• Complex Meal Breakdown: Using a homemade chicken pot pie as the case study, the episode demonstrates how to account for high fat from butter and shortening and protein from chicken using the Warsaw Method.
• Natural Consistency: The AI-generated bolus (7.65 units) and Jenny’s clinical estimate (7.6 units) disagreed by only 0.2 units, proving that trained models can provide highly reliable foundational strategies.
• The Importance of Servings: Jenny highlights a critical safety step: always verifying the serving size. A small error in dividing a recipe (e.g., 6 servings vs. 8) can lead to a significant insulin overdose.
• Weight-Based Starting Points: Scott previews new weight-based calculators for basal rates and insulin sensitivity, aimed at helping users move past undervalued medical starting points.

Resources Mentioned

• • Contour Next Gen: contournext.com/juicebox
• • Medtronic Diabetes: medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox
• • Meal Bolt Roadmap: juiceboxpodcast.com/meal-bolt
• • Small Sips Series: Quick bursts of clarity on T1D management.

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner (0:00)

Welcome back, friends. You are listening to the Juice Box podcast. In every episode of bolus four, Jenny Smith and I are gonna take a few minutes to talk through how to bolus for a single item of food. Jenny and I are gonna follow a little bit of a road map called meal bolt. Measure the meal, evaluate yourself, Add the base units.

Scott Benner (0:30)

Layer a correction. Build the bolus shape. Offset the timing. Look at the CGM. Tweak for next time. Having said that, these episodes are gonna be very conversational and not incredibly technical. We want you to hear how we think about it, but we also would like you to know that this is kind of the pathway we're considering while we're talking about it. So while you might not hear us say every letter of Mielbolt in every episode, we will be thinking about it while we're talking. If you wanna learn more, go to juiceboxpodcast.com/meal-bolt. But for now, we'll find out how to bowl us for today's subject.

Scott Benner (1:09)

While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the juice box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Today's episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by the Kontoor Next Gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contournext.com/juicebox.

Scott Benner (1:45)

Today's episode is also sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the MiniMed seven eighty g system and their new sensor options, which include the Instinct sensor made by Abbott. Would you like to unleash the full potential of the MiniMed seven eighty g system? You can do that at my link, medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox.

The Pot Pie Challenge: Mental Math vs. AI

Jenny Smith (2:09)

I don't know what this means.

Scott Benner (2:10)

Alright. I'm hitting record now. Yes. Did you just say, does this have anything to do with your weird text?

Jenny Smith (2:15)

I I did. Okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner (2:17)

So I'm sorry.

Jenny Smith (2:18)

Very odd text.

Scott Benner (2:19)

Yeah. I'm starting the recording like this so people can hear that a few minutes ago, I texted Jennifer a link to a pot pie recipe and a list that says one ten it's number one ten, number two fifty, number three one hundred, number four default, number five current BG one thirty, number six rising arrow. Number seven, no insulin on board. And in real time, I don't care how long it takes. We can chat while you're doing it. I want you to go to that recipe

Jenny Smith (2:50)

Okay.

Scott Benner (2:50)

And with those parameters, tell me how to bolus Oh. For one serving of the pot pie.

Jenny Smith (2:57)

K. So my can I guess then? So number one is the insulin to carb ratio. Yep. Number two, fifty is

Scott Benner (3:11)

It's sensitivity.

Jenny Smith (3:12)

Oh, the scent I was gonna guess either sensitivity or the amount of carbs per survey.

Scott Benner (3:16)

No. I'm not telling you any of that. That's on you.

Jenny Smith (3:19)

You're not telling any of that. Okay. Awesome.

Scott Benner (3:21)

And I'm it's just a link. You have to click on it. You're gonna have to pick through it. You're gonna have to look at the ingredients, and you're gonna have to figure out how to bolus for it. And I want a fat and protein bolus out of you too.

Scott Benner (3:32)

And there's a good reason for this. I'm not just torturing you on a Monday morning.

Jenny Smith (3:37)

Oh, okay. So I'm looking at the recipe.

Scott Benner (3:40)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (3:41)

And so the recipe is looks like it's eight servings, which would be typical for, a pie based recipe to cut it into eight servings. It has a top and a bottom crust to it. I'm assuming the crust is also homemade.

Scott Benner (4:02)

In the recipe, there's a ingredients.

Jenny Smith (4:04)

Made pie dough recipe. Okay. And

Scott Benner (4:14)

While you're thinking, I'm gonna read the ingredients to people. Okay. One recipe for homemade pie dough. One pound boneless skinless chicken breast, a third of a cup of butter, a half a cup of celery, a third a cup of an onion, a third cup all purpose flour, half a teaspoon of salt, quarter teaspoon of freshly ground black pepper, a quarter teaspoon of celery seed. Even though we use celery?

Scott Benner (4:37)

Interesting. A half a teaspoon of garlic powder, one teaspoon chicken bouillon paste or more to taste, one cup of milk, eight ounces of frozen vegetables, mixed carrots, peas, green beans, and corn, one egg, one tablespoon of milk. So that's the entirety of what you need to make this concoction. And I'm gonna use that word because I love that word. I also wanna point out that I sent a complicated meal on purpose, and the website is set up by a person who is just pushing ads on you.

Scott Benner (5:10)

So it's difficult to navigate is my other point. Like, there's pictures and there's, you know, make the pie crust, the highly recommend our blah blah blah, you know, and then photos and then ads are popping up. Like, it's everyone who's done a rest it.

Jenny Smith (5:23)

A busy website.

Scott Benner (5:24)

It's a busy website. That's important later just for context. So Mhmm. And then there's cooking instructions. It tells you how to cook it.

Scott Benner (5:32)

There's notes about making it ahead of time, etcetera. And it does give nutritional facts at the bottom.

Jenny Smith (5:37)

Oh, well, I won't look at those.

Scott Benner (5:39)

Good. Don't cheat.

Jenny Smith (5:40)

I'm not yeah. I didn't even go that far. I was just getting to the rest to the ingredients, scrolling through. I was looking at the picture first, actually. Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (5:48)

As you saw, I went to the servings first because, you always wanna know how many servings a recipe might make so that you know what a single serving, not what the portion is that you put on your plate. What do you want first?

Scott Benner (6:04)

I guess well, I guess tell me just tell me the bolus, then we'll pick it apart and tell you and you can tell me why you got to it. So, you know, does it need an extended bolus? What's the total dose? What goes up front? How long would you stretch it out?

Scott Benner (6:20)

Whole thing.

Jenny Smith (6:21)

Sure. I mean, if I'm looking at from just a, like, a protein standpoint, I'm looking at the ingredients right now. A pound is 16 ounces. That's typically about should be approximately four servings. Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (6:39)

Four four ounce servings. Right? But this recipe says that it makes eight servings, which means that, really, you're only getting about, in a cooked portion, two ounces at best of the chicken. Mhmm. There are other things in here that would have a little bit of protein depending on the chicken bullion that you're using.

Jenny Smith (6:59)

Vegetables have a little bit of protein. There's an egg in here. So my guess would be that this is not terribly high in protein when we're talking about the bolus strategy and pre bolus, which ones are gonna be more heavily impacting your blood sugar. Right?

Scott Benner (7:15)

Yeah.

Jenny Smith (7:15)

And in this recipe, I don't see it as being a terribly high protein meal if you eat one serving. Mhmm. Right? Fat, again, I mean, for the most part, it really only has the fat from an egg, minimal from the boneless skinless chicken. Milk.

Jenny Smith (7:33)

It's got a little bit I mean, a tablespoon of milk.

Scott Benner (7:35)

No. No. There's more.

Jenny Smith (7:36)

At the there more?

Scott Benner (7:37)

Yep. There's a

Jenny Smith (7:39)

At the top?

Scott Benner (7:40)

There's one cup. So you're getting a third of a cup of butter

Jenny Smith (7:43)

One cup.

Scott Benner (7:44)

A cup of milk. Yep. And then the homemade pie dough recipe.

Jenny Smith (7:47)

The homemade pie dough recipe, which is butter and

Scott Benner (7:51)

Flour.

Jenny Smith (7:51)

Flour. Right.

Scott Benner (7:52)

And a double and a crust on the bottom and a crust on the top.

Jenny Smith (7:56)

Correct. And So, you know

Scott Benner (7:57)

Jenny, between you and me, I don't know how many times you've had a pot pie in your life. That's a pretty thick crust.

Jenny Smith (8:02)

It's usually a very thick crust.

Scott Benner (8:03)

Yeah.

Jenny Smith (8:03)

Yeah. It was the one thing that I really did like meat in when I was younger. I loved chicken pot pie.

Scott Benner (8:09)

Who doesn't love

Jenny Smith (8:10)

a pot pie? Right?

Scott Benner (8:11)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jenny Smith (8:11)

But my estimate would be that the fat would be the higher part of this meal because of all the things that you just noted. Right? Mhmm. So I would expect to need an extended bolus for this because the real carbs in here that are the hit carbs are coming from the pie crust, which is high fat.

Scott Benner (8:37)

Right. And the gravy too. Right?

Jenny Smith (8:38)

And the sauce, which comes from the bullion the chicken bullion and then Flour. The flour, which, again, there's not a heck of a lot of extra flour. It's only a third of a cup in the whole entire pie. But, again, because the pie crust is high fat, despite it having carbs, you know, even if I just estimated the carbs in this, a top and a bottom crust are usually top crust about 10 to 12 grams of carb, bottom crust about the same in an eighth of a pie. So that's, what, 24 grams.

Scott Benner (9:13)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (9:14)

And then there are some grams of carb coming from the celery, the onion, the mixed frozen vegetables inclusive of peas and corn, a little carbier. So and the extra flour I mean, I'm gonna add in 10 extra grams, so let's call it 35 grams of carb per eight of a pie.

Scott Benner (9:36)

Okay.

Jenny Smith (9:36)

That's just a rough after that's just carbs. Right? Mhmm. But, again, I think because the carbs are held by a higher fat type of food, What we're looking at is using an extended bolus for this meal.

Scott Benner (9:53)

Can I tell you in the recipe for the crust, you're using six tablespoons of cold unsalted butter and three quarters of a cup of vegetable shortening?

Jenny Smith (10:02)

Mhmm.

Scott Benner (10:03)

Just so you know that that's that's the crust recipe.

Jenny Smith (10:05)

Right. It's high fat.

Scott Benner (10:06)

Yeah.

Jenny Smith (10:07)

Yeah. Entire I clicked on the

Scott Benner (10:09)

Oh, you did look? Okay.

Jenny Smith (10:10)

Because I was like, what are they using for the fat?

Scott Benner (10:12)

Good.

Jenny Smith (10:13)

Yeah. Extended bolus, yes. Pre bolus, I'm gonna say if your blood sugar is stable and in target

Scott Benner (10:22)

Your your blood sugar in this, breakdown is one thirty.

Jenny Smith (10:25)

Oh, that's right. You had it in the that's right. Okay. It's

Scott Benner (10:28)

one thirty, and the arrow rising arrow. Is rising.

Jenny Smith (10:31)

Yes. Okay. So rising arrows, regardless of where the current BG is, a rising arrow indicates that you are at somewhat of a deficit of insulin to create a rise. Right? Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (10:44)

So in this, it's not necessarily the food that you're prebolising for, but it's the fact that you have a rising arrow and your current BG is already at the top of maybe where some people would want it to be, like, one thirty. Right? And it's rising. A prebolus would be beneficial here

Scott Benner (11:02)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (11:02)

To at least get a a plateau.

Scott Benner (11:06)

Yeah.

Jenny Smith (11:06)

So that when you do start eating this slower digesting type of meal, you don't still have a rise going. Mhmm. Right?

Scott Benner (11:13)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (11:14)

By how much? Probably fifteen minutes is an estimate. But in this case, because of the content of the meal, I'd say just do a pre bolus and wait for the arrow to stabilize.

Scott Benner (11:26)

K.

Jenny Smith (11:28)

That would be my recommendation.

Scott Benner (11:30)

Can you contextualize the the fat protein units in this? Like, just looking at it, or is that a thing that you need, like, a calculator for or something like that?

Jenny Smith (11:38)

Probably I you would definitely need a a calculator if you're going by, like, the Warsaw method of FPUs to get an idea. If I estimated again, I think I gave a pretty good estimate amount of protein. I'd guess around 20 grams per servings, maybe a little bit less. Maybe it's, like, 17 grams, but, again, nice round numbers are a little easier. So maybe per eighth of a pie here, 20 grams of protein.

Jenny Smith (12:06)

And then FPUs usually use somewhere around 40 to 50% of the amount, and then the potential of extending that in some way, shape, or form in the aftermath of the meal. And using is the number one here, the 10, is that the insulin to carb ratio?

Scott Benner (12:25)

That's your insulin to carb ratio, one to 10. The 50 is insulin sensitivity. 100 is the target blood sugar.

Jenny Smith (12:30)

The target blood sugar. Yeah. So then fat, like I said, that's the one that I mean, it would really do it would need a little bit of addition of all of the pieces of fat that go into this in an eighth of a pie, I guess somewhere maybe slightly under 30 grams per slice.

Scott Benner (12:52)

For fat?

Jenny Smith (12:53)

For fat.

Scott Benner (12:54)

Go ahead. Carbs, you said what? I forget.

Jenny Smith (12:57)

34. 35. Would be my estimate in protein somewhere around 20 Okay. At the most, honestly.

Scott Benner (13:06)

I wish people could see me smiling. Keep going.

Jenny Smith (13:08)

And then the fat, I think 30 might be a little high, but it I don't think it's too far off given all the fat in the crust and what you're adding. And the milk I'm expecting would be whole milk and the egg. You've got a fair amount of fat here. So let's call it 30 grams of fat. And, again, in FPU is the calculation for additional fat gram counting goes in, and then the Warsaw method takes into calculation what are the calorie units that kind of come out of what you're adding in Yep.

Jenny Smith (13:39)

In order to come up with the amount to use along with your insulin to carb ratio of one to 10, and that gives you your FPU. But it doesn't unless you add in and you've got the facts here. You've got a correction or an ISF of 50. You've got your target blood sugar of 100. Right?

Jenny Smith (14:01)

Mhmm. So if you have a calculator that takes into consideration what you would need for corrective insulin, then that would also go up front along with just the carbs. Right? So if we just factored in let's say this is 35 grams of carb. If it is, that's 3.5 units at a one to 10 ratio.

Jenny Smith (14:20)

Correct?

Scott Benner (14:20)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (14:21)

And then we'd have to do a little bit of the math again to be able to say, okay. We've got a target of 100. Current blood sugar is one thirty and rising. If it's an angled arrow up, that angled arrow is usually a rise rate of about two milligrams per deciliter per minute. So if you did nothing about this rise effect, two milligrams per minute in the next thirty minutes is what?

Jenny Smith (14:50)

Two. How much higher could your blood sugar be if you do nothing about the rise in blood sugar?

Scott Benner (14:55)

Two per minute for thirty minutes could be 60 points higher.

Jenny Smith (14:58)

Could be 60 points higher.

Scott Benner (14:59)

Okay.

Jenny Smith (15:00)

Right? So if it is, you could be sitting at a one ninety if you did nothing. Mhmm. Again, I'm just adding it in a little bit of layering to this to get the perspective on we have to do something about the rise. Yes.

Jenny Smith (15:15)

Even though this meal may upfront, if you were flat at a 100, you probably wouldn't need a pre bolus for this.

Scott Benner (15:21)

Okay. Because it's gonna hit you a little slower. But with the rise slow. And the and the rise yeah. Yeah.

Jenny Smith (15:27)

Mhmm. But if we, you know, take current blood sugar one thirty as it is minus your target, it gives you 30, and then you divide that by your correction factor of 50. An additional point six units of insulin is going to be needed on top of the three point five units

Scott Benner (15:44)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (15:45)

Of actual carb. Now that's just the upfront.

Scott Benner (15:49)

Yep. What does that put us at total upfront?

Medtronic and Contour Next Gen

Scott Benner (15:53)

Unlike other systems that will wait until your blood sugar is a 180 before delivering corrections, the MiniMed seven eighty g system is the only system with meal detection technology that automatically detects rising sugar levels and delivers more insulin as needed to help keep your sugar levels in range even if you're not a perfect carb counter. Today's episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes and their MiniMed seven eighty g system, which gives you real choices because the MiniMed seven eighty g system works with the Instinct sensor made by Avid, as well as the Simplera Sync and Guardian Force sensors, giving you options.

Scott Benner (16:35)

The Instinct Sensor is the longest wear sensor yet, lasting fifteen days and designed exclusively for the MiniMed seven eighty g. And don't forget, Medtronic Diabetes makes technology accessible for you with comprehensive insurance support, programs to help you with your out of pocket costs, or switching from other pump and CGM systems. Learn more and get started today with my link, medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox.

Scott Benner (17:07)

contournext.com/juicebox. That's the link you'll use to find out more about the Contour Next Gen blood glucose meter. When you get there, there's a little bit at the top. You can click right on blood glucose monitoring. I'll do it with you. Go to meters.

Scott Benner (17:18)

Click on any of the meters. I'll click on the next gen, and you're gonna get more information. It's easy to use and highly accurate. SmartLight provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels. And, of course, with second chance sampling technology, you can save money with fewer wasted test strips.

Scott Benner (17:33)

As if all that wasn't enough, the Kontoor Next Gen also has a compatible app for an easy way to share and see your blood glucose results. Kontoornext.com/juicebox. And if you scroll down at that link, you're gonna see things like a buy now button. You could register your meter after you purchase it. Or what is this? Download a coupon.

Scott Benner (17:56)

Oh, receive a free Kontoor Next Gen blood glucose meter. Do tell. Kontoornext.com/juicebox. Head over there now. Get the same accurate and reliable meter that we use.

Scott Benner (18:11)

Yep. What does that put us at total upfront?

Jenny Smith (18:13)

4.1.

Scott Benner (18:14)

Four. Okay. Go ahead.

Jenny Smith (18:16)

And then what we're looking at is, again, a more math calculation for the FPU units and then the extended nature of it. My expectation for whatever the total dose would be using the Warsaw for calculating the fat and protein units, my expectation is that it would ex I'd expect it to tell you to extend that bolus for the fat and protein somewhere around four to five hours?

Scott Benner (18:44)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (18:45)

That would be my guess of this meal.

Scott Benner (18:48)

And what's the extended the extended amount of the total insulin over the four or five hours?

Jenny Smith (18:54)

God. I'd have to do the math.

Scott Benner (18:55)

Would you please? Because in a second, Jenny, someone's gonna crown you the king of diabetes. That's gonna be me. So go ahead and do that. Okay?

Jenny Smith (19:03)

Okay. So

Scott Benner (19:05)

I I'm gonna while Jenny's doing that, I wanna I wanna reiterate. It is Monday morning. It is the December 29. We are between Christmas and New Year. Most of y'all aren't even working.

Scott Benner (19:16)

Jenny and I are recording. I texted her once again, five seconds before we got on, a link to something called the best chicken pot pie.

Jenny Smith (19:24)

Which looked like you were texting me like, this is where the gold is hidden under this. I'm like, what if he's not written? I don't know

Scott Benner (19:30)

what he's got. Underneath of it, it just says, one, so everything's numbered. One is 10. Two is 50. Three is a 100.

Scott Benner (19:37)

Four is default. Five is current. By the way, default is the 50% for the FPU calculation in Warsaw. Default is

Jenny Smith (19:46)

For protein?

Scott Benner (19:47)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it uses the like, you can go heavier or lighter.

Jenny Smith (19:50)

You can. And the default for fat is 10?

Scott Benner (19:53)

I'm not sure. Five is current BG one thirty. Six is rising hour. Seven is no insulin on board. I just texted her that.

Scott Benner (20:00)

And then you guys also heard actually, let me tease something here. Jenny and I shared with each other what our middle names were before we started recording. And then so Jenny knows now, if you wanna know my middle name.

Jenny Smith (20:12)

I know something that nobody will ever know.

Scott Benner (20:15)

I told her I will burn her house down if anybody finds out. I hit the recording just where you heard it start, and we started talking about this. She has no context for any of this. Okay? None.

Scott Benner (20:26)

No context at all. Okay. Give me the FPU, Bolas, and then I move on.

Jenny Smith (20:31)

I am calculating. Oh, sorry. Working on it. No. No.

Jenny Smith (20:34)

It's okay. No. I was I was talking along with is along with you. So if if my what was my estimate was for protein was 20. So if we take 50% of that Yep.

Jenny Smith (20:46)

Right? 50% of 20 grams is about 10 units

Scott Benner (20:51)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (20:51)

Or ten ten grams except excuse me. 10 grams of protein times four calories per gram is 40 calories from protein.

Scott Benner (21:01)

Okay.

Jenny Smith (21:02)

Because FPUs essentially in the Warsaw get transitioned. An FPU is a 100 one FPU is a 100 calories of added fat and protein.

Scott Benner (21:15)

Okay.

Jenny Smith (21:15)

Okay. If we expect protein to be 10 grams, that's about 40 calories. And then fat is heavier in calories. And if that's what I was I was trying to make sure that I'm not using my calculator, my own self calculator.

Scott Benner (21:33)

You're doing this in your head.

Jenny Smith (21:35)

I'm doing this in my head entirely. I'm not using my calculator. I love my calculator. I actually tell my my children not to use their calculator.

Scott Benner (21:44)

You can use it if you want to. I if it if it'll if we'll get you to it.

Jenny Smith (21:48)

Go here.

Scott Benner (21:49)

Because my point is going to be, I think like, everyone hang on.

Jenny Smith (21:54)

My calculations are okay.

Scott Benner (21:56)

They're not just okay. First of all, you're a treasure. And secondly, seriously. And and secondly, when you're all in your doctor's offices and they go, I don't know what happened. It's because they don't understand it like this.

Scott Benner (22:09)

But bigger picture, Jenny, I don't understand it like this. And I wanna be clear that most of what you just did, that if you spent ten years teaching it to me, I would not retain it. Okay? Like, my brain does not work the way yours does. I've interviewed people about fat and protein.

Scott Benner (22:29)

I've had the waltzing the dragon lady on. What was her name? Oh, gosh. To talk all about the Warsaw method. You and I have talked about it.

Scott Benner (22:39)

I I just I can't wait to tell everybody the rest of it. I just wanna be clear that right now that if you asked me to do this the way you just did it, I would go, and then that would be the end of it. I would do my thing. I'd start going like, there's a lot of fat in that.

Jenny Smith (22:53)

Mhmm.

Scott Benner (22:53)

And it's a rising blood sugar. So let's maybe cut this arrow off, get it coming down a little bit before you start eating. I don't know. Prevol is, you know, twelve, fifteen minutes, like, somewhere in there. And then I'm gonna wanna extend this out more hours than you think because this thing's gonna hit again.

Scott Benner (23:11)

It might hit twice. Right? It might hit ninety minutes the second time Yeah. And it could it could roll on me again if I if I'm not on top of it with all the gravy and thing. That's how I think about it.

Scott Benner (23:21)

The math and everything else you talked about, I promise you, with a gun to my head, I wouldn't be able to figure out. But I I wanna promise you that. Okay? And I'll tell you why I'm telling that after you tell me how much you want a bolus for the fat extended over the four or five hours.

Jenny Smith (23:36)

Yes. So to break it down again, if we do total FPU units, you'd essentially take all the fat and all the protein because the calculator essentially could do it for you. Mhmm. Right? And again, an FPU is based on calories with a 100 calories being like 10 grams of carb.

Jenny Smith (23:53)

So if we take all the calories that I'm adding here together, right, 20 ish grams of protein in total, so that's 80 calories. And then we've got, I estimated, 30 grams of fat. Right? Mhmm. 30 times nine is another 270 calories.

Scott Benner (24:12)

Okay.

Jenny Smith (24:12)

Okay. So if we take two seventy plus the 80, I'm making you do math in the morning.

Scott Benner (24:20)

Two seventy plus 80. Yeah. It's three fifty.

Jenny Smith (24:24)

Yeah. Three fifty. And then again, that's 350 calories. And then if you take that into consideration of the 100 calories is equal to 10 grams, it kinda works out to be about the same number of units as the carbs.

Scott Benner (24:39)

I'm gonna try. Go ahead. Say your number.

Jenny Smith (24:41)

Because we had 35 grams of carb. Okay. But if we take 350 calories, it becomes per 10 grams and a one to 10 ratio of 3.5 units.

Scott Benner (24:51)

Okay.

Jenny Smith (24:51)

So And then my expectation would be to extend it over somewhere around four to five hours would be my expectation. I think that the Warsaw method often extends

Scott Benner (25:02)

You think it goes a little longer than

Jenny Smith (25:04)

you I think it often goes a little bit longer. Mhmm. But I also think it in many people ends up being a little heavier. And that's why there is that math ability to say, well, I only need to count 30% of fat. And maybe I only need to count this much of of of protein or or whatever it is.

Jenny Smith (25:22)

And there's some wiggle room that you end up figuring out for your own personal needs, but the general math of how it's done is based on all in total, and then the calculator gets you to how much and how far to extend it.

Scott Benner (25:35)

Awesome. So I'm gonna go over this with you one more time. Your carbs, you calculated as about

Jenny Smith (25:40)

I estimated about 35.

Scott Benner (25:42)

35. I'm writing this down. The fat, you said 30?

Jenny Smith (25:47)

I said about 30.

Scott Benner (25:48)

Yes. About 30. The protein?

Jenny Smith (25:50)

About 20. About

Scott Benner (25:51)

20. You had the it's funny. You had the bolus at what? And then you had a correction on top of it. You have the

Jenny Smith (25:58)

Yes. So the bolus would have been for 35 estimated grams of carb just at a one to 10 ratio is 3.5 units.

Scott Benner (26:05)

Yep. And you had the correction.

Jenny Smith (26:06)

Correction, if you take current blood sugar one thirty minus target blood sugar of a 100, you get 30. You divide that by the correction factor of 50, and you get 0.6. That's the correction amount.

Scott Benner (26:18)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (26:18)

Then you add 3.5 from the carbs to the 0.6 from the correction, you get 4.1.

Scott Benner (26:24)

Yep. And the extended?

Jenny Smith (26:26)

And the extended for the FPUs was 3.5.

The AI Strategy Engine Reveal

Scott Benner (26:29)

Okay. Alright. I'm gonna go slow because I'm excited.

Jenny Smith (26:35)

Okay. So

Scott Benner (26:37)

the reason I explained to you all that I don't understand all this, like, mathematically is because I've been doing something over the past couple of months. The haters out there, just hold on a second. Okay? Because I think this is gonna prove it out for you. I don't understand the Warsaw method technically.

Scott Benner (26:53)

I understand it theoretically. Sure. I am you know, I'm okay with breaking down boluses and, you know, by, you know, correction factor and and by your carb ratio. I can do that. It does not come natural to me.

Scott Benner (27:06)

I don't think about it that way.

Jenny Smith (27:08)

I think theoretical is a great way to describe because I know years ago

Scott Benner (27:13)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (27:14)

When we had a fun little discussion about looping, when we started looping.

Scott Benner (27:18)

Mhmm. Yeah.

Jenny Smith (27:19)

Like Absolutely. Like, Jenny, I think I need to start doing carb counting. We might need to understand a little bit about

Scott Benner (27:26)

what's going into this thing.

Jenny Smith (27:27)

This isn't working. But I think theoretical is because you've figured out by eyeballing

Scott Benner (27:33)

Yes.

Jenny Smith (27:35)

A plate and being able to say, in a general way, know the ingredients that go into this.

Scott Benner (27:40)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (27:40)

And I can estimate because I have historical information about what happens to my daughter's blood sugar after things like this. I can say, I know how much I've touched up with Yep. And what has happened. So you have a you have a base for that eyeballing.

Scott Benner (27:57)

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (27:58)

Okay. So So yes.

Scott Benner (28:00)

I, for the last couple of months, have been doing a thing. I've taken the deep research model from Google Gemini and ChatGPT, and I've been dumping your and my conversations into it.

Jenny Smith (28:15)

Mhmm.

Scott Benner (28:15)

Okay? And so I told it to learn about how you and I think about bolusing by giving it a ton of the bolus four episodes. Right. I gave it the pro tip series and the bowl beginning series and told it, like, these are my theories and Jenny's theories about, like, how to handle diabetes. I gave it the episode where I spoke to the woman about the Warsaw method, and I said, like, this is the Warsaw method.

Scott Benner (28:37)

Make sure you completely understand the Warsaw method. And after you've understood all the you know, all of it, I'm gonna start asking you some questions. So I started asking you questions, and I asked it to build an AI prompt. So it's not a it's not code or it's nothing. It's it's it's in English.

Scott Benner (28:56)

It's pretty specific. Okay? But I've been hammering through it, using it, trying again, saying, oh, look. You didn't do this. You didn't do that.

Scott Benner (29:03)

Fix it again. And I have a prompt now that I like pretty well.

Jenny Smith (29:07)

Nice.

Scott Benner (29:07)

So when you and I started today, I dropped that prompt into Google Gemini. I want you to know I'm using it.

Jenny Smith (29:16)

All all the fancy tools that you're using.

Scott Benner (29:18)

No. No. No. No. I did it to show and I did it like this because I believed in you.

Scott Benner (29:25)

And I wanted and I wanted to prove out your knowledge, and at the same time, I wanted to prove out this thing.

Scott Benner (29:31)

Okay?

Jenny Smith (29:31)

That must mean that my math teachers would be maybe proud of me.

Scott Benner (29:34)

I think

Scott Benner (29:35)

the whole world's about to be proud of you. Okay? So after I put this through, what I noticed was it split the pie into six pieces.

Jenny Smith (29:44)

Oh, interesting.

Scott Benner (29:45)

So I said to it, hey. Make the serving one eighth of the pie and reevaluate. That's the only change I've made. Okay?

Jenny Smith (29:52)

Okay.

Scott Benner (29:52)

You ready? Yes. Based on the adjusted serving size of one eighth of a pie, ingredients break down for an eighth of a serving. Double pie crust, 28 carbs, 17 and a half fat, three protein. You said crust twelve and twelve.

Scott Benner (30:10)

Okay? Chicken breast, 1.9 ounces, half of four, just like you said. Fat, two. Protein, 13. Butter in the sauce, 7.5 fat.

Scott Benner (30:21)

Flour is the thickener, four carbs, point eight protein. Peas and carrots, quarter of a cup, five carbs, point eight protein. Whole milk, point eight carbs, point eight fat, point eight protein. Ready? Jenny said carb estimate, 35.

Scott Benner (30:36)

This says 38. Jenny said protein estimate, 20. This says 18.5. Jenny said fat estimate, 28. This said 30.

Scott Benner (30:46)

Look how I'm gonna curse. Look how close you were on all that. That's amazing. Hold up. Immediate bolus.

Jenny Smith (30:54)

It's just breaking down food rest it's just breaking down HR.

Scott Benner (30:58)

I know it's easy for you, but I it's a magic trick to me. Okay? And sure there are people out there that think like you, but they also don't have time to do this.

Jenny Smith (31:08)

No.

Scott Benner (31:08)

Okay. No. This is a specific situation where two lunatics on the December 29 talking about potpie. Okay.

Jenny Smith (31:16)

True.

Scott Benner (31:16)

Alright. Right. Right. I don't know which one of us is crazier at moment. It doesn't really matter.

Scott Benner (31:20)

Okay? You said 3.5 for the bolus, point six for the correction, total 4.1. This has it as 4.4. Look how close. Okay?

Scott Benner (31:30)

It has 3.8 only because it had three more carbs than you did. It's the only reason it's a little off. Right? Extended bolus, it has the FPUs at 3.26. It wants an extended wave bolus of 3.25 units.

Scott Benner (31:44)

Total dose, seven point six five. Your total dose was four five six seven. Yours was 7.6. This total dose is 7.65.

Jenny Smith (31:57)

And, again, I was a little bit over in protein and fat just slightly. Right? So that would make the difference too.

Scott Benner (32:04)

Okay. And here's everything else you said. Timing and execution. This says pump settings. Dual or square wave bolus over five hours.

Scott Benner (32:11)

You said four or five. This will probably be heavier. Pre bolus time, it says thirteen minutes before eating. Constraint logic. Duration change.

Scott Benner (32:19)

The FPU dropped to 3.26. This falls safely into the five hour bracket. This is because at at and this is important. I'm gonna go back to this. When it was cutting the pie into six Mhmm.

Scott Benner (32:30)

It was a lot more insulin. Sure. Right? Just for that tiny bit more to your point about servings earlier. Okay?

Scott Benner (32:36)

And it had the extended bolus out longer. And now this would be interesting. Watch points to tweak for next time. Do you know why it's saying that? Because of the meal bolt breakdown, because I taught it that.

Scott Benner (32:47)

And then and that's what I've been building the prop. Anyway, listen. I might not be smart smart, but I'm smart.

Jenny Smith (32:54)

You are. Yeah. But everybody's got smarts in one way or another.

Scott Benner (32:57)

It says t plus in three plus three hours, check for a drop. The FPU is on the lower end of the five hour bracket, 3.2. If you tend to run low, you could manually shorten this to four hours. Look at this. But the standard work all protocol says just five.

Scott Benner (33:14)

Tweak for next time. Since the duration is now shorter, check BG here to ensure the tail of the fat protein digestion didn't outlast the insulin. What is my point? Hire Jenny if you can. If your brain works that way, god bless you.

Scott Benner (33:29)

You might understand all this like this one day. But if you can't, if you're a big dummy like me, just ask the thing. Jenny, don't lose track of the fact that I didn't tell it the ingredients. I gave it a

Jenny Smith (33:41)

link to a recipe.

Scott Benner (33:43)

A link to a recipe, and it went. And god, I'm so proud of this. I can't begin to tell you.

Real-World Applications

Jenny Smith (33:50)

You should be. I think the other thing that is of value is you should always second check, though, the ingredient what it is using because, you found, I looked right at the first part of the recipe. I'm always looking at servings that a recipe makes, right, to know whether feeding my family with two hungry boys Mhmm. Who eat everything. I'm like, yep.

Jenny Smith (34:12)

I totally need to, like, triple this. Right?

Scott Benner (34:15)

It missed that because it does

Jenny Smith (34:17)

missed that. It did. That's my point.

Scott Benner (34:18)

The the prompt missed it because the serving size, it says serving eight right there. Yep. So just because people might contextually be interested, when the serving size was broken down as a sixth instead of an eight Mhmm. Listen to this. Carbs total went to 50.

Scott Benner (34:38)

Fat total went to 36 and a half. Protein to 24 and a half. The bolus goes up to 5.6, and the FPU bolus goes to 4.2. It's 9.8 now total insulin.

Jenny Smith (34:48)

Lot more insulin.

Scott Benner (34:49)

Yeah. So if you just think of that pie and cut it into eight pieces, then the insulin is 7.65. You cut that same pie into six pieces, it goes up by over, like, over two units.

Jenny Smith (35:03)

And that was my point in making sure that you have fed it something that it's it's got the right Yeah. Serving size, especially in this

Scott Benner (35:13)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (35:13)

Kind of context because let's say somebody didn't catch that it was doing this based on six servings instead of eight. They put in all the insulin. They're wondering why why am I going low when I did what I thought that I probably should do. I've given it all the right information.

Scott Benner (35:28)

Yep.

Jenny Smith (35:29)

It's a really, really important piece.

Scott Benner (35:31)

Yeah. I think that you should understand your diabetes. I think it is somewhat generally preposterous to think that you're gonna break down every meal the way Jenny just did. I think that it's a little preposterous to think that you might just be in the situation where I am where I go fat, protein, lot, this, extend. Like, I some people's minds aren't gonna work that way.

Scott Benner (35:51)

This is a great example of why so many people struggle bolusing for this stuff. Like like, it's just and and Popeyes, you know

Jenny Smith (36:00)

Well and I will say, you know, I always try to think what's usable. Right? Mhmm. What's gonna give you the most bang? And if you're gonna use something like this, I can see two specific reasons that you would use this tool.

Jenny Smith (36:15)

One would be for a restaurant meal.

Scott Benner (36:19)

Yep.

Jenny Smith (36:19)

Right? That even at least lists all the ingredients. You may not have the recipe, but you may have the ingredients that you could tell it. Mhmm. And it could give you a better base to start with.

Jenny Smith (36:31)

But the other one that actually goes farther is, let's say there's a family who has chicken pot pie every single Friday night, and they've yet to figure it out after eight weeks of trying. They're like, I don't know. We're just gonna put insulin in tonight and figure out, like, how much more we end up having to nudge it with. Right? Yeah.

Jenny Smith (36:49)

But that's not fun because I think that takes some of the joy of eating, really

Scott Benner (36:55)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (36:56)

Out of just sitting and enjoying the food that you like. So if you have meals that you make over and over and over again, but you have yet to figure them out, these are the meals to go in and put the recipe in, see what this could actually give you. And then, like, I did years ago something using a carb factor. Carb factor is an easy way to figure out by weight how much just carb is in a made recipe.

Scott Benner (37:28)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (37:28)

And then you can weigh a portion, and you can multiply it by its carb factor, and then you get a better carb count for that portion. But this goes even the next level. It takes into consideration fats and proteins and extending a bolus and all of that kind of stuff. But put sticky markers or notes in the sides of your recipes that say this is exactly how to do this meal.

Scott Benner (37:51)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (37:52)

Is it gonna be a 100% every time? No. Because the variables coming into or after a meal like this, they're very likely going to be different.

Scott Benner (38:02)

Yeah.

Jenny Smith (38:02)

But at least you have a really solid foundation to start with. Right. Right. And it could clean up if this again, if you do this for 20 meals that you guys favor over and over, you're probably gonna hit, you know, a good 80% of your management, especially after dinnertime meals.

Scott Benner (38:20)

So the way I see it is that it should be like an app on your phone or something like that because I don't expect people to do this all the time. Like, that's not my although, while you were talking, I just typed in, now do this for salmon, green beans, and mashed potatoes with a dinner roll. Same parameters. I literally didn't tell it anything about it.

Jenny Smith (38:37)

Right.

Scott Benner (38:37)

Atlantic salmon, six ounces, 18 fat, 34 protein, mashed potatoes, one cup, 35 carbs, nine fat, four protein, dinner roll, one roll, 16 carbs, two fat, three protein. Green beans, one cup, seven carbs, four four fat, two protein. It must be how it like, so it went out on the Internet. Like, it didn't it didn't and and it still broke it down.

Jenny Smith (39:01)

Mhmm.

Scott Benner (39:01)

And so I don't I don't know if this is right or not because I didn't tell it, like, make the green beans this way, the rolls like that, but it's an estimate. I mean, did does this the estimate sound far off for you? Cup of mashed potatoes, 35?

Jenny Smith (39:13)

No. Not at all. Right? It's about right.

Scott Benner (39:15)

Gives a bolus and extended weight. My thought here is and, like, listen. I'm gonna have to, like, throw 97 disclaimers on this, and I don't even know if I'm gonna make it available for people. Like but, like, I taught it to do that. Mhmm.

Scott Benner (39:31)

Like, it wasn't five minutes. It was sometimes sitting on my sofa for three hours to my laptop going like, no. You forgot this. No. You did that.

Scott Benner (39:38)

Like, I had to, like it it wasn't like

Jenny Smith (39:40)

You had teach it what to look at and then what to compute.

Scott Benner (39:43)

It wasn't a sci fi movie. I didn't say, Jarvis, I need you to, like, make a prompt that does this. And it was like, here it is. It's perfect. It was not perfect.

Scott Benner (39:51)

But I told it, like, I wanna consider fat and protein in every bolus. I want to I want a good breakdown. It it wasn't easy. Like, what I basically did was is I took my, like, non scientific, non mathematical chatty brain, and I chatted with the AI until it gave me back a prompt. Right?

Scott Benner (40:11)

The prompt is not it is it is it it's not small. It it's not like a it's not a, how do I wanna put this? It it's it's it's not like a a paragraph. It's

Jenny Smith (40:23)

Right.

Scott Benner (40:24)

It's a

Jenny Smith (40:24)

It's lengthy.

Scott Benner (40:25)

It's about three pages in in a document. Right? There it is. Like, you could take that prompt, add to it, this is my carb ratio, this is my insulin sensitivity factor, but please still ask me if my where my arrow is, what my current blood sugar is, like that kind of question. You could drop that prompt in with a link, hit enter.

Scott Benner (40:46)

It would say, what's your current blood sugar? What's blah blah blah blah? You could pop that in, push a button. I'm telling you, it takes about twenty five seconds, and it kicks it kicks all this back. Verified by Jennifer.

Scott Benner (41:01)

Seriously, are you not amazed of yourself right now? I know you're not because it's just a thing you do.

Jenny Smith (41:06)

I'm more pleased that it actually is verifiable what I know how to mentally compute. Yes.

Scott Benner (41:15)

Can you imagine if it was they they were both, like, wildly different? Be like, Jenny, we're not gonna use this episode. I I my my prompt

Jenny Smith (41:22)

thought interesting thing is what I would love to see is the diff is how it plays out in comparison to some of our newer algorithms. Yeah. Yeah. Specifically, the open source algorithms like in Trio. Because Trio allows you to enter all the macros, carbs, fats, and proteins.

Jenny Smith (41:44)

Right? And into the algorithm and the calculation, it has these pieces factored in.

Scott Benner (41:52)

Yep.

Jenny Smith (41:52)

So it has an outward watch for, gosh, she told me that there are 30 grams of fat in this meal. There are 18 grams of protein in this meal along with 50 grams of fat or or carbohydrate. So I'd like to see how it would actually dole out the insulin

Scott Benner (42:12)

Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (42:13)

Compared to just this very flat application dose that you're putting in in a fashion of drip drip from a pump that can do an extended bolus.

Scott Benner (42:27)

So if if you had if you had that Trio is an example where you'd actually be able to see what it was doing the whole time. Right? So you could do this and then put these so, basically, what we're doing here is, like, you're talking about the algorithm, what the algorithm does when you tell it, this is how many carbs, this is how much protein, this is how much fat I'm eating. This is taking that same kind of brain and saying, make sure I'm correct about the fat, the protein, and the carbs. Correct.

Scott Benner (42:51)

And now, you know, here's that information. Go do something with it. And, of course Mhmm. Variables, you know, how old is your infusion set? Like, there's you know, are you hormonal?

Scott Benner (43:00)

Like, there's still a lot of other impacts. But based on this, you know, just these two ideas, I it takes a lot of the variability out of it if you're right about what you're telling the thing and the thing is right about how it's handling that information. I just think that

Jenny Smith (43:16)

No. It's great.

Scott Benner (43:16)

Yeah.

Jenny Smith (43:17)

Yeah. I think it's

Scott Benner (43:18)

I don't know where this is, like, yet, but this is a you should all be paying attention to what we just talked about for the last half an hour here. The future is now is what I'm saying. This is not I think I pay $20 a month for Gemini. I I I don't I don't have some super

Jenny Smith (43:33)

This is probably similar to ChatGPT. I think that one's about the

Scott Benner (43:36)

same. Right? What I've learned about the those two models, and I haven't dug into any others, I like a little more about the way ChatGPT writes. I think it writes I think it actually writes a little more in my voice. So you guys want some insight.

Scott Benner (43:49)

I trained ChatGPT. I gave it my book and my website, and I was like, this is about how I sound. So every once in a while, if I get, like if I get That's funny. If I get hosed up and I'm like, I need to, like, put something up and I don't have time, I can just I can say, hey. Listen.

Scott Benner (44:06)

I wanna you know, I want people to listen to this episode because blah blah blah. Please write it in my voice. Then I go back and I edit it. But it gives me a Yeah. It it cuts twenty minutes out of that

Jenny Smith (44:14)

writing time.

Scott Benner (44:15)

It's amazing. But I like the Google Gemini better for code writing and more technical stuff. Oh. Because I've been may I at the end here?

Jenny Smith (44:27)

Sure.

Scott Benner (44:27)

Can I can I bore you for a second? I've been messing with a lot of different things. Jenny's like, you're not boring me. Is that what you're gonna say? You're be polite and say that?

Scott Benner (44:36)

Look at you. So Midwestern. So lovely.

Jenny Smith (44:41)

Like, oh, yeah. My mom would be proud. Yeah. She she was she was like, no. You're not boring.

Jenny Smith (44:45)

Sure you are, Scott. Hold on

Scott Benner (44:46)

a second. I'm logging into something, and I'm

Jenny Smith (44:50)

Those are the things, you know, parents tell you when you're having to sit and listen to grandpa's stories. My my grandfather was a World War, vet, and she always drilled it into my brother and I, like, grandpa starts talking. You will pay attention. Yeah. You will sit there.

Jenny Smith (45:07)

You will not close your eyes. You will wait until grandpa's done talking about his stuff.

Vibe Coding the Future

Scott Benner (45:12)

So I've been using what I've learned. Like and again, I wanna be real clear. I don't understand coding at all. Like, I mean, I do not. Basically, I teach the algorithm deep research on conversations.

Scott Benner (45:26)

And then, by the way, after it's done completely, like, going over the podcast, I tell it, like, now everything you've learned, go access the Internet and fact check everything. Like, just don't take it because maybe you and I misspoke like, maybe it misunderstood. Like so I'm doing a little as much redundancy as I can. Then I'm saying, alright. Now give me code that I can put on my my website.

Scott Benner (45:47)

So this is not public right now, and I don't know that it ever would be, but I have a few things I've been working on. There's a something I that's right now just called a strategy engine. Ins so you can take your insulin to car ratio, pop it in 10, insulin sensitivity, 50, target blood sugar, let's call it 90. It gives you a max bolus limit to put in. It it will allow you to enable reverse corrections if you want.

Scott Benner (46:11)

You tell what the carbs hold on a second. Let's use what we just did here. This is it'll be a good test for this then. So the carbs were 38. Right?

Scott Benner (46:25)

The fat was 28.

Jenny Smith (46:30)

Were the carbs?

Scott Benner (46:32)

Protein.

Jenny Smith (46:32)

Oh, yeah. That's right. I guess 35.

Scott Benner (46:34)

Yeah. Yeah. The protein I'm just going with this. The protein was 18.5. Current BG was one thirty.

Scott Benner (46:40)

Insulin on board zero. Trend arrow up. Generate a strategy. Boom. It's up already.

Scott Benner (46:46)

4.6 initial bolus, 3.26 for the FPUs, 7.86 combined. It says execution strategy pump setting dual wave square, 3.26 over five hours. Wait thirteen minutes to pre bolus. Here's some safety precautions. Insulin onboard safety correction only subtraction.

Scott Benner (47:05)

It's using the Medtronic model. I don't even know what that means. I wanna be clear. Ambiguity guard, 10 to 70 range checked. Warsaw method, less than one FPO discarded.

Scott Benner (47:16)

So it said do 4.6 o and 3.26, 7.86. What we got with the prompt was four point four o, three point two five, 7.65. I'm gonna tell you the the same damn thing. Like, right, like, it's a it's it's off by point. They disagree by point two.

Jenny Smith (47:34)

Which is negligible for most people.

Scott Benner (47:37)

That's on a website. Okay? Mhmm. Here's some other stuff I've been working through. Basal math work through.

Scott Benner (47:45)

Enter a weight, A hundred and thirty pounds. Am I a standard high am I high sensitive, standard, resistant, or highly resistant? Do it with me. A hundred and thirty we're gonna figure out somebody's basal insulin, Jenny. Hundred and thirty pound person standard.

Scott Benner (48:02)

Okay. Tell me what their daily total basal insulin should be.

Jenny Smith (48:09)

They're a hundred and thirty pounds?

Scott Benner (48:10)

Yep.

Jenny Smith (48:13)

15. Just a rough

Scott Benner (48:16)

Yep. 16.25. Pump setting point six eight an hour. There's a fine tuning slider on it. Right?

Scott Benner (48:22)

I can say a little less, little more, like and it it tells you who fits. High sensitivity, athletes, active kids, lean t one d, standard, most adults, preteen children, resistant, sedentary adults, illness, high stress, high resistant puberty, teens, steroids, growth hormones. This is a embeddable app that I it's hidden on my pop my website right now. You guys can't see it. I I'm the only one that knows where it's at, and it's password protected.

Scott Benner (48:47)

You can't get to it. But that is code written from I I I hope this blows your mind. The math behind basal insulin conversation we had. Right? And I said, read that, learn everything about it, fact check it, build me an app.

Scott Benner (49:04)

Boom. Insulin sensitivity calculator. Total daily dose. Let's make somebody's total daily dose fifty. Using the standard 1,800, your estimated insulin sensitivity is do you wanna do it or you wanna let it

Jenny Smith (49:19)

Somewhere around thirty thirty five 36.

Scott Benner (49:22)

36.

Jenny Smith (49:23)

30 Yep.

Scott Benner (49:24)

And there's a little tester on it. You wanna test it? Make your current BG one thirty. Make your target 90. Use 1.1 units, it says.

Scott Benner (49:33)

That's just to test the theory out. That's another app made from the math behind insulin sensitivity.

Jenny Smith (49:39)

And that's some of the math also that goes into your your pumps if you're using that type of. Right? Yep. It's just doing basic math for you. Otherwise, you have to do the calculation and then manually enter the bolus.

Jenny Smith (49:50)

But today's pumps in for quite a long time have been, you tell it what your insulin to carb ratio, your ISF is during the day, what a target blood sugar that you're aiming for, and it does that all behind the scenes, and that's how it gives you the suggestion for the bolus.

Scott Benner (50:05)

But when you start on day one putting in your numbers, what have we learned through conversations all in all? Like, a lot of doctor's offices will undervalue your insulin needs. You start with bad settings and the pump struggles. And then before you know it, it's thirty years later and you don't understand it.

Jenny Smith (50:19)

And it's all off. Yeah.

Scott Benner (50:20)

Smart insulin to carb ratio calculator using the 500 rule, total daily insulin, 50, calculate ratio, one to 10. So imagine you could just start with your weight.

Jenny Smith (50:35)

Mhmm.

Scott Benner (50:36)

And then get these three numbers, then put them into the machine, and then go back and use the thing to break down and and it tells you, hey. This is, you know, you're gonna do a meal wave bolus for this. It's blah blah blah. Your outcomes are gonna be so much more predictable and probably accurate. Right?

Scott Benner (50:53)

Right. Because in the end, these simple things like, I know that some people listening are like, yeah. Duh, buddy. But I want you to know, like, I only know this from talking to Jenny for all these years. Like like, when you and I started, I really was just a guy going like, Jenny, I think I see stuff that if I do it, this happens.

Scott Benner (51:12)

And you have taught me over the years, like

Jenny Smith (51:15)

What it is that you're seeing?

Scott Benner (51:16)

Yes. What it is I'm seeing. And we've been teaching other people through the hopefully, those conversations. But now I woke up in a world two years ago, and I was like, hey. You know, I type into a prompt and it you know, it's not great.

Scott Benner (51:28)

But and then over the last two years, it's gotten so much better so quickly. I don't know that there's any reason to struggle. Like, I don't know that there can't just be a web page that you go to where you check your settings real quick and then tell it, hey. What's the nutritional breakdown of this meal? And then that's my bolus.

Scott Benner (51:43)

And ta da.

Jenny Smith (51:44)

Would be lovely.

Scott Benner (51:45)

Yeah. Oh, I got it right here. I just thought I mean, I gotta talk to like, I don't know how many disclaimers I gotta write all over it. You know?

Jenny Smith (51:52)

And that's the hard thing, I think. And probably why I think it takes a certain type of brain to think through it the way that you have Mhmm. Which has been fantastic. That's where I get frustrated in the companies. Right?

Jenny Smith (52:09)

Yeah. Because there are many, many engineering minded people within the production, the technology companies for diabetes technology, and so this isn't rocket science.

Scott Benner (52:23)

No. I'm an idiot. I wanna be clear.

Jenny Smith (52:26)

And you're and you're not at all. But what I'm saying is that this isn't rocket science. So why why can't we have exactly what you just said that comes along with each and every pump so that it can actually give you your pump has been prescribed, your doses have been approved Mhmm.

Jenny Smith (52:49)

By your your clinician. Right? And this app just takes what you've been told to dose and actually makes it a heck of a lot safer for you to use the insulin because now you've got something telling you exactly where to put the dose and how to time it. Yeah. Like, doesn't that just makes and most of the most of the pumps now are app driven to some degree.

Jenny Smith (53:13)

So it's not like it's, again, rocket science.

Scott Benner (53:15)

Right.

Jenny Smith (53:16)

Connecting one communicating app to another community communicating app and letting it just give you better management.

Scott Benner (53:24)

Yeah. I mean, I don't I Jenny, I don't know how to code, and I don't understand diabetes the way you do, and I didn't go to college. And I just understand what what I've learned over the years and what I've

Jenny Smith (53:34)

learned from go to college who know nothing, so don't feel bad about that.

Scott Benner (53:37)

You're very nice. But I'm just I'm just trying to point out that, like, my base line is guy trying to help his daughter. Right? Like and I I I will take your, you know, your compliment. I I think my brain works in a pretty interesting way.

Scott Benner (53:49)

Like, that's Mhmm. Fine. But but I'm looking at this now. What I'm thinking about is all the people I've talked to and where their struggle points are. Right?

Scott Benner (53:57)

Like Mhmm. If I give them all the steps you and I just laid out, people are gonna go, I'm not doing all that. I'll just guess 40 carbs, and I'll bolus again if I get high. You you know, like like that guy. And I understand that.

Scott Benner (54:06)

But I don't know that there's not a world where you can't just say, this is how much I weigh, and here's a link to what I'm eating. Let's go. I don't know enough about coding, but I don't know that you couldn't just combine all these little calculators together and put in a tiny bit of information. I actually the one I've been working on would actually go out and get the link, but it's tough because you need an API. It's just it's boring.

Scott Benner (54:32)

But, like, you like, there's, you know, ChatGPT, Gemini, it's going out on the Internet, and it's figuring out based on databases like these

Jenny Smith (54:41)

Right.

Scott Benner (54:42)

The stuff that's in this food. I actually toyed with the idea of, like, paying for the API, putting it behind a paywall, and just telling everybody, like, look. It's $5 a month. That should cover the tokens and go ahead and use the damn thing. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner (54:55)

Like, I've been trying to figure all that out right now. But, again, I'm not a coder, so it's taking me a little more time. But, anyway, you all, like I don't know. Don't take my advice. I swear to god, I I literally, I went to summer school in ninth grade because I I failed algebra.

Scott Benner (55:11)

I just want you all to know that.

Jenny Smith (55:12)

All good.

Scott Benner (55:13)

Alright. Thank you, Jenny. This was really awesome. You are awesome.

Jenny Smith (55:16)

Thank you.

Scott Benner (55:16)

Yep.

Jenny Smith (55:17)

Thanks.

Outro and Final Thoughts

Scott Benner (55:25)

Having an easy to use and accurate blood glucose meter is just one click away. Contournext.com/juicebox. That's right. Today's episode is sponsored by the Contour NextGen blood glucose meter. I'd like to remind you again about the MiniMed seven eighty g automated insulin delivery system, which of course anticipates, adjusts, and corrects every five minutes twenty four seven.

Scott Benner (55:53)

It works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. The juice box community knows the importance of using technology to simplify managing diabetes. To learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes, visit my link, medtronicdiabetes.com/juicebox. Okay. Well, here we are at the end of the episode.

Scott Benner (56:15)

You're still with me? Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review?

Scott Benner (56:25)

Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribe in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram, TikTok. Oh, gosh. Here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't wanna miss please, do you not know about the private group?

Scott Benner (56:45)

You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. They're active talking about diabetes. Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now. And I'm there all the time.

Scott Benner (56:57)

Tag me. I'll say hi. If you'd like to hear about diabetes management in easy to take in bits, check out the small sips. That's the series on the Juice Box podcast that listeners are talking about like it's a cheat code. These are perfect little bursts of clarity, one person said.

Scott Benner (57:19)

I finally understood things I've heard a 100 times. Short, simple, and somehow exactly what I needed. People say small sips feels like someone pulling up a chair, sliding a cup across the table, and giving you one clean idea at a time. Nothing overwhelming. No fire hose of information.

Scott Benner (57:36)

Just steady helpful nudges that actually stick. People listen in their car, on walks, or rather actually bolus ing anytime that they need a quick shot of perspective. And the reviews, they all say the same thing. Small sips makes diabetes make sense. Search for the Juice Box podcast, small sips, wherever you get audio.

Scott Benner (57:56)

Have a podcast? Want it to sound fantastic? Wrongwayrecording.com.

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