Scott Benner 8/18/23 Scott Benner 8/18/23

#979 Weight Loss Diary: Five

Scott is taking Wegovy for weight loss. This is diary number five.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 979 of the Juicebox Podcast

Welcome back everybody to another episode of my week go V diary, it's been another month. So you're getting another update, we're gonna find out if I lost weight, how it went if I can poop and stuff like that. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Or you know, any of that stuff. Really just talk to a doctor. Save 40% off your entire purchase at cozy earth.com When you use the offer code juicebox. Get a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs when you get your first order at drink a G one.com forward slash juice box. Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group. If you'd like to ask me questions about we go V post them there, I'll do my best to answer and tell you more about my experience. What else do I have for you? Oh, if you're looking for diabetes content, the diabetes Pro Tip series begins at episode 210. And you can see a complete list of all the episodes at diabetes pro tip.com worth the top of juicebox podcast.com. And if you're in the private Facebook group, just check the feature tab for lists of all the series. If you have type two or pre diabetes, that type two diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast is exactly what you're looking for. Do you have a friend or a family member who is struggling to understand their type two and how to manage it? This series is for them seven episodes to get you on track and up to speed. Episode 860 series intro 864 guilt and shame episode 869 medical team 874 fueling plan, Episode 880 diabetes technology episode 85 GLP ones metformin and insulin and an episode 889. We talk about movement. This episode is with me and Jenny Smith. Of course, you know Jenny is a Certified diabetes Care and Education Specialist. She's a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. Too many people don't understand their type two diabetes. And this series aims to fix that. Share it with a friend or get started today. Hey there cats and kittens. It's a July 18th. Tuesday again, time for Oh, no more 1.7 Time for 2.4 milligrams of weego V this is the highest dose. So this is the dose I will be on moving forward. How did the week go? You may remember from the last week Ovie diary, that I was a little constipated. And I was adding little fiber that was helping keeping up with magnesium oxide. So this week was interesting. In so much as that things were moving, but not up to standards. You don't I mean, like you're a little life, huh? Was that it? Okay. I feel like there could be more that it was that sort of a situation but things were happening. The thing I'm going to take away from this past week, though, is that I don't think I'm eating enough food now. So I have to start eating more. Going back to the 11. The last time I made this recording. I was two Oh 8.4. This morning, I was two Oh 7.2. So I mean, in a week I've lost 1.2 pounds, which is terrific. But two days ago. No three days ago, excuse me. On the 15th I was two Oh 5.6. I went from two Oh 7.4 on the 14th to two Oh 5.6 on the 15th. But now I've put back to a 6.6 like a pound and a half ish. Because I think as I'm looking back over this and by the way, making this diary was really helpful for me because I can makes me go over the whole thing. But I think the day before the weight loss, I had a big meal. That was it. I ate a lot of ate more food than I've been eating. Not a huge meal by the way. We just We went out to a good Chinese restaurant and I had a little fried rice. I had shrimp I had a little chicken at a fortune cookie. And then the next day I woke up. I use the bathroom. Then the next day I woke up and I was a lot lighter. But then I cut back on food again. By the way I'm not cutting back on food. Please understand. I'm just not hungry. I need a drink. Sorry. I'm not hungry, and I'm forgetting to eat. And I think maybe the constipation not hungry, forgetting to eat thing might be a cycle. So I'm going to finish this. I'm gonna go downstairs and make a breakfast for myself. Okay, well, without any further chit chatter you do 2.4 milligrams of weego V semaglutide injection it says right on a single dose prefilled pen pop off the cap. All right, sticking with the stomach because it works

okay, I don't have much more to say, I'm very happy with how this is all going. I am, let's see 26.2 pounds lighter than when I started as of today. That's amazing. I have a feeling like this is going to start happening. I just like again, like another movement of the number, just have to put all the pieces together, I think the fiber supplements and now I'm going to add more food like consciously more food. I think we're gonna have a better outcome next week, I'm gonna make a prediction. I've never done this before. By the way, also, I'm getting my toe fixed. I just got that this morning. Very excited. I went to see a surgeon. I don't know I've mentioned this on here. I think anyway, my toe is almost set a bad word, but it's really messed up. And I can't really exercise or walk or ride a bike or anything. So I went to a surgeon yesterday. And they actually got me on the schedule for the 25th. So believe it or not, believe it or not, I will get my toe fixed next week, in the morning and then make my next injection recording in the afternoon. So I'll tell you about the surgery next time. And then they say it's just a very quick recovery process. And then I'm going to be able to add some exercise which will be terrific. But anyway, my prediction. What is my prediction? A month from now? A month from now. Two Oh 7.2 This morning. I'm gonna make a bold prediction. A month from now I'm gonna be 199 and a half. That's my bold prediction. Okay, I am back July 25. I had surgery on my toe this morning. It hurts. But we're still going to make the recording and inject the 2.4 milligrams if we go away. Here's the thing. I gained like almost a pound and a half this week. The eating more thing didn't go as well as I wanted it to. So you know, I will persist the and then the surgery right? I had to like do a weird fasting overnight for the surgery the next day. I'm probably like they gave me a what's his name and IV so like I don't know if I'm super hydrated or too hydrated at the moment or I can't really tell you doesn't matter point is my weights up like a point 1.4 pounds since the last time I made this recording. I am undeterred. I will continue to try to eat better. Meaning more, I'm gonna go back to the food schedule that I was on. When I first started doing this like like the the food decisions I was making, I want to go back to those. I think I might have gotten in the in the situation where I was losing weight no matter what was happening. And maybe I got it into my head like I'm just going to lose weight. So I'm going to go back to the things that I was doing in the beginning egg in a wrap in the morning, some mushrooms that kind of stuff. Yogurt, my, my my athletic greens, which are they're not calling Athletic Greens anymore. Drink ag one I'll drink my ag one in the morning like I always do the egg wrap the yogurt boom breakfast. And then I'm going to be going with more kind of like seafood in the evenings and try to get back to eating a little earlier in the evening that I was. So those are today's marching orders for this week. Not a whole lot else going on my toe surgery actually went really well. They told me it was going to be a bunch of arthritis and a bone spur But doctor called me later in the evening to say that it really wasn't much arthritis at all. It was like a torn piece of cartilage that was causing the pain and he took it off and they gave me what they called microfracture like a microfracture procedure to try to get the cartilage to grow back. Anyway it hurts like hell right now. But I I'll be okay. It's gonna it's probably to take a couple of days to feel better. That's it right let's we go via 2.4 milligrams every week, I think I'm just gonna put it somewhere different than I stomach but then I go there. And then I just put in my stomach

Alright, Everybody cross your fingers, that I get on back onto a better elimination schedule. How's that? It's a nice way of saying all right. I will talk to you next week. Hey there, kids. It's Scott. I'm back. August 1, pulling out my app. August 1. I'll tell you, this has been an interesting week with Do we go V. We get a drink. Okay. So, back on the 23rd Is that the last time I recorded? Yes. I was two Oh, 8.6. And I was having a little trouble going potty. You remember? While we got that worked out? We I got that worked out. Took a little fiber supplement. Once or twice, twice, I think. And then I ate a half a cheeseburger. I thought this will help. And boy did it. So on. 27th I was two Oh 7.6 on the 29th I was two Oh 5.2. So I thought that was the fiber. Then the burger. Oh my goodness. I woke up the day after the burger. The burger incident we should call it 203.6 pounds. Holy Hanna Barbera, am I right? It that burger went in there. My body was like I have not had a cheeseburger in quite some time. Whoosh. It was not pleasant. We should not be talking about it. But it happened. So I'm telling you. Now, I think that next day, I was a little dehydrated and bereft of anything in my body perhaps the wrong word. There was nothing in my body. So two or 3.6 I was like this is not a weight that's going to stay I actually could tell I was dehydrated. My wedding ring was like slipping off. So I'm like this is not my real weight. But anyway, it is what I weighed in at on the 30th of July. Next day 31st Two Oh 4.8 Got a little rehydrated now this morning, two Oh 6.2. And I have to tell you after seeing the two or three number I was like, Oh man, come on. But retrospectively I look back two oh 6.2 Is a 2.4 ounce. Or excuse me a two pound four ounce weight loss over the 30 over over the my my weight on the 26th. So I've lost 2.4 pounds. It's great. I love it. I'm in I'm now cats and kittens. Things are happening. Scotty told you I'd start losing weight again. Still feel great. I'm not having any trouble eating. I actually went to a bar where I got the burger. And it's usually if I go there during this week, everything I would usually get seafood just like kind of some light meat, crab or maybe a boiled shrimp. But instead I went with this burger. I mean it was a real burger. had cheese had a crab cake on top of it these people but crab cakes on top of cheeseburgers. I didn't. I cut it in half. I ate half of it. I was stuffed when it was over. It was hard for me to get half of it in. I brought the other half home with me and I've had no inclination to eat it whatsoever. Just interesting little side note, anyway. I wasn't nauseated or anything like that. I was still able to eat half the cheeseburger but I was it I kind of was like oh this as much as I can do. Anyway, we are of course 2.4 milligrams of we go V I am excited things are moving. I my foot surgery went okay. Well, it's been a week since that happened since I talked to you. It's filled throbs a little bit when I sit here, I actually just recorded an episode that you won't hear for like six months, but I had to record it with my foot up on the table here so I could I could get through it without the throbbing. I'm going to do my injection every week, I think let me put it somewhere different than my stomach just for fun. Like I don't even know why that would matter. But I'm just gonna do my stomach honestly. I can go through some of the other numbers with you in a second but Let's inject this first cap off click it in the belly. Nice spot

nice, just hold it for another couple seconds. Cuz why not? Let's fucking go V All right. What else am I noticing? I don't have any reflux, which I did have for a little while but that's been okay like you know a couple episodes back. I haven't had that in a while I don't have that high up and nausea feeling that like, like I've described in the past it almost felt like my esophagus was full of food like he felt like full a pie in my almost to my chest and my sternum. I haven't had that. I can eat, like, if I want to. So but I'm still not hungry. I don't have like that crazy hunger. The one thing my wife and I are both noticing is that food feels like it tastes different. Now. I don't know if that's the week govi or if that's just getting the sugar and the carbs out of you or what that is. But um, last night, Arden was like on board. And I was like, Alright, well let's do something. And I was working. So I stopped working. And I came down and I was like, What do you want to do? I said, Hey, you want to go get water ice? And she's like, Yeah, cool. So we went off and got these little water ices. And I ate that, like no problem. I couldn't finish mine, but I ate it. It was fine. But it wasn't like it didn't hit me as sweet as it usually is. So I don't know what that is. But my wife talks about food tasting differently. I have noticed that with some things. Sweet doesn't taste as sweet. Maybe savory doesn't taste as savory. I don't know why. Like I don't I'm not saying that's the medication or not. It's just something I've noticed. Other than that, I'm feeling good. I'm excited for my toe to feel better so I can start exercising. I think that's really when this is gonna like come together for me. Weight loss. I mean 2.4 pounds in a week is terrific. Using this I started this 233.4 pounds on the 28th of March. And today is August 1. And I weighed two Oh 6.2. I honestly still think I'm going to be under 200 soon. My BMI is 30.5 Right now it started at 34.6. My body fat is 28.9 down from 35. I mean that's crazy, right? My body water is good. My skeletal muscle mass is holding this is all based on this some the scale I'm using the Renfrow scale. Couple of you have bought it I guess after hearing me talk about it. My fat free bodyweight holding pretty steady. subcutaneous fat holding steady, visceral fat holding steady. My muscle mass increased a little bit this week. That's cool. And my bone mass has gone up. It's nice. Yeah, my metabolic gauge is still not going down. But I losing weight and I feel better. I was I was at I took a day off this weekend, I didn't make any podcasts or anything I went, I sat in the Sun at a family member's house around a pool. My foot hurts, obviously. So I couldn't get in the water, all that stuff. But I sat like up in this kind of like Bartok chair. And I had another one across from me to keep my foot up on so it wouldn't throb. And at one point, I've kind of pulled my knees back to myself. And I was like, I don't know how to put that, like I was sitting in the chair, but my feet were back by my butt. And I thought this is not a thing I could have done before. Okay, I don't sit like this usually. And it's because my stomach is gone. It's really wonderful. Honestly, super excited. I'm starting to see some more muscle tone in my arms and my legs. I can't wait to start exercising. I know this one's going on for a little bit. I'm sorry, I'm babbling a little here. But I think my point is just that it's going well, and that losing weight is valuable. I didn't know that I'd feel this good about it, honestly. And it's teaching me about patients in a different way to like I always thought I was a patient person to begin with. But a pound or two a week, you know, seven days to lose a pound. Seems like oh, it's not worth it. But it really is. And you just you know, because of the medication I'm able to stick with it. Not like haven't had one moment of like a binging or an overeating This whole time I've been doing this and I do credit that we go before that, I'm certain I would have like fallen off the wagon if I tried to do this on my on my own. But like actually being able to stick with it for this long time, and seeing the benefits, it's not something that you can understand if you just dieting for a week or two or, you know, changed your fueling plan for a month, it really does take this amount of time for you to really get perspective on what's happening and how valuable it is. So I don't know what my message is there. But stick to it is, is what I'm noticing, just sticking to it and being patient. It has been really valuable. Alright, I'm gonna go. I will talk to you soon. I'll be back next week when I checked it again. I am so grateful for this little week over the blog. And I'll tell you why. Because it's August 8. And I weighed myself this morning. I haven't weighed myself in a couple of days weighed myself this morning, because I was going to make this recording. And I weighed 204.4 pounds, and I was pissed. It's like, you've got to be kidding me. And why do you say that? Right? Why am I telling you I'm mad at two? Oh, 4.4 when just a moment ago, on August 1, I was two Oh 6.2. I've lost two pounds this week, basically? Well, it's because three days ago, when I weighed myself, I was two or 3.4. And I thought I was gonna get three, I thought I was gonna get a three pound weight loss this week. I was genuinely upset for just a moment. I saw the scale and I was like, damn it. Now. Here's the stuff you don't know. I didn't have to go to the bathroom when I got up this morning. So fair enough. Not that I was going to add that I was going to eliminate a pound. But my body's in a weird shift at the moment. I didn't use the bathroom this morning. Whatever. I was a little nauseous this morning. NOT want to call it nausea. You'll get the wrong idea. It just it's not good. But it's not good. Because I think two things I worked late last night. So I ate late. That was a mistake. I had like this just small little wrap with a few shrimp in it. But at like nine o'clock, I think that was my mistake. And and I need to go I feel like I need to go to the bathroom. It's not happening. So that's the feeling I'm having right now. It's very specific to being on Weibo V. Not away I felt prior to being on it. What else I am getting a lot of great. My brother is using ozempic At the same time. And he's getting starting to see some real results and a lot of happy texts from him. My wife who is also using weego V. The other day when we Saturday's the day she injects today's Tuesday. So she was injecting on Saturday, she jumped on the scale, she only gets to the scale once a week. And she'd lost pounds. And she and I literally both like I'd lost 30 pounds and she'd lost like 30 Water, something like that. So happy for I'm back actually back to 29. Now because of this one pound thing that we've heard about no big deal. I think that's it for today. This is my fourth injection of 2.4. So they're all 2.4 Moving forward, but this is my fourth one. I've been doing this for a month now. And I think we should take a second to see where we started the month and where we're ending it. So we pop back into the app. So when did when was 30 days ago? Probably like probably like July. Scrolling. Scrolling. Okay, well, on July 8, I was 209.2 pounds. And today I am 24.4 So 2056789 I lost about five pounds this month. I have to tell you, that's amazing.

I know. I think I think what this has done for me more than anything has given me a perspective about time. Because I think if you would have told me in the past, Scott, you're gonna lose five pounds this month, I would have thought oh my god, a whole month to lose five pounds terrible, like you know, would have seen which is what doesn't seem good to me. And now I'm thinking it's amazing, because what am I now 204 something if you're telling me that a month from now, a month, which is if I'm lucky and stay alive, it's gonna pass anyway, if you're telling me a month from now, I'm going to be 199 pounds. That's insane. Like really just didn't feel I started at 233 something. I'm gonna get to 199 I haven't been under 200 pounds and forever. I think the last time I was I think I was 205 I actually do want to hold on a second. I'm gonna pause and pull up a thing. And I'll be right back. I found some notes I made over the years. So back in 2019 on January 20 2019, I started Wow, at 233 pounds. I did something called the baked potato diet, which was not pleasant. And I lost 10 pounds in like six days that I stuck with something. And over the next three months, January, getting into the middle of April, I got down to 218 pounds. So back in 2018, I was to 18. Now in 2018, I did this as well. How about that? In 2018 and September starting at 236 pounds. I went on some sort of weight loss journey, who knows. And I stayed with it through September, October, November. And on November 12, I was 216. Wow. So on November 12, I was to 16. December, January, two months later, in January, I was back to 233. So I lost 20 pounds. And then 26 And then I put almost all that back on and two months. Isn't that interesting. And then I did the big potato thing that I got back down to 18. So the lowest weight I've had in Gs 23 In five years was 218. And today on 204. And we have every reason to think I might be 199 a month I don't know why this works. I really don't. This week I had this week somebody brought me ice cream. I had ice cream this week, I have not had ice cream since I started doing we go V was a pint of Ben and Jerry's that stayed in the house for four or five days. And over four or five days, I ate pretty much the entire pint of ice cream. And I still lost weight this week. I had wraps for dinner breakfast, I'm never hungry. I'm very happy. I don't know what's in. I don't know what's in the cards for moving forward. I don't know if I would just stop using this. If I would just put this weight back on. I really don't know. But what I can tell you is my life is is very much better right now. And I appreciate you guys going on this this little journey with me which I feel like an idiot Saint journey but learn a lot about myself and learning a lot about eating. And I am healthier and healthier as I go. I actually saw myself in the mirror the other day. And I thought oh, I don't I don't look bad. That's not my face. My wife was poking at my double chin the other day and she goes, this thing's really going away. I was like, Oh, this is fun. This foreplay. What are we doing right now? It was not by the way. Let's do this. We go we shall we 2.4 fourth one. We are right here in my stomach, which is getting smaller and smaller. And here's the losing five more pounds this month.

I like to hold on for a couple extra seconds. I don't want to waste any. All right, guys. So I might have been a little off on my 199 at the beginning of this episode. But still 2042 or three 199. I mean, now it's just the process, right? Just a very slow process that is consistently moving in the right direction. And I think that's all that matters. Honestly, for more months, could I be 20 pounds lighter? I do I want to be 20 pounds lighter. I'm not even sure I have to be perfectly honest with you. I don't even know what my good weight is going to be. What I can tell you is, is that my toe surgery is getting better and better. I have just a couple of more days to visit doctor. Let me tell you when that is actually, oh, this Friday, one to like three more days and I get to go back to the doctor where he will hopefully tell me I can take a regular person shower and not a shower with a bag on my foot. It feels much better. I'm going to be able to get back to exercising, we're going to see what the impact of that is going to be. I don't know there's nothing but goodness in front of me. So I'm excited. If you want to hear details about some of the other series in the podcast. Keep listening for another couple of minutes. And if you don't, you're pretty much done. But don't forget to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes and follow the public page as well. juicebox Podcast on Facebook. I'm on Instagram Tik Tok. Anywhere you want to be actually think I have a Twitter? I definitely do. It's at Juicebox Podcast. Yeah. See, I got all that stuff. What else? What else? What else? There was something else I wanted to tell you. Damn it all the hell? Oh yeah, here it is. Thank you, the podcast continues to grow. And it's because of you. It's because you're listening. It's because I'll tell you why. When you listen, download the show or stream it. It ranks higher in podcast charts that allows other people to see the show and go, Oh, this must be a reasonable thing I could try listening to when you subscribe in a podcast player like Apple podcasts or Spotify or anywhere like that, that raises the profile, again of the podcast, it pushes it up on charts, and allows other people to see it. When you tell your doctor, a friend, someone on Facebook online about the podcast, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, reaches more and more people, it helps more and more people. And it allows me to sell ads to advertisers, which keeps the podcast happening. It's all just the circle of life kind of thing that you guys are the driving engine of and I really appreciate that. Alright, so now I'll say thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. A diabetes diagnosis comes with a lot of new terminology. And that's why I've created the defining diabetes series. These are short episodes, where Jenny Smith and I go over all of the terms that you're going to hear living with diabetes, and some of them that you might not hear every day, from the very simple Bolus up to feed on the floor. Don't know the difference between hypo and hyper, we'll explain it to you. These are short episodes, they are not boring. They're fun, and they're informative. It's not just us reading to you out of the dictionary, we take the time to chat about all of these different words. Maybe you don't know what a cool small respiration is, you will when you're done. Ever heard of a glycemic index and load haven't doesn't matter. You'll know after you listen to the defining diabetes series. Now, how do you find it, you go to juicebox podcast.com up top to the menu and click on defining diabetes. You'll be able to listen right there in your browser. Or you'll see the full list of the episodes and be able to go into an audio app like Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to them at your pace. Download them into your phone and listen when you can. The defining diabetes series is made up of 51 short episodes that will fast forward your knowledge of diabetes terminology. If you're a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes, the bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bold beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. The series is made up of 24 episodes. And it begins that episode 698 In your podcast, or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this to listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bulk beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bowl beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies. In episode 715 We talk about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 135 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears, hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bold beginning series. We talked about community 772 journaling, 776 technology and medical supplies, Episode 780, treating low blood glucose, Episode 784 dealing with insurance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management. Check it out. It will change your Life

#978 Diabetes Myths: Dos and Don'ts

A brand new series examining the myths surrounding diabetes.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 973 of the Juicebox Podcast

just like that Jenny's back, and we're gonna do another diabetes myth today, today's myth is that there's a cure and they're hiding it. They, whoever they are, are hiding the cure from you. They have it, but they won't let you see it. We're gonna talk about that today. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Save 40% off your entire order at cosy earth.com and use the offer code juicebox. Get a free year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order at drink ag one.com forward slash juicebox and please don't forget to use the links for on the pod decks comm us med all the sponsors. They're right there in the show notes of your podcast player and at juicebox podcast.com. Jenny Smith works at Integrated diabetes and you can hire her at integrated diabetes.com Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes doesn't matter if you have type one, type two Lada doesn't matter how you eat, everyone is welcome. Great conversations happening right now. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, and I'm about to speak at the next live touched by type one event. Sometime during this episode. I'm gonna give you all the details about that free event that's coming up soon in September of 2023. Come out and see me while you touched by type one.org. Okay, we are recording. Alright, Jenny, we are back to do another diabetes myth. And because yeah, you and I were just chit chatting. I don't have the document open. So just give me a second here to open that up. And let's see what we have done so far. A lot. We have done. We have we're getting through it. We're doing we're doing well. We did last week we did. The big one was that there are no diet restrict or excuse me that diet type ones have a specific diet restriction. And we talked all through that. So then we did complications are inevitable that blood sugars don't alter how you think. So today? Oh, you're ready to be snarky. Huh, good. I think we're gonna have to be a little snarky during this one. Okay. That there is a cure for diabetes, and it's being hidden from us.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:55
Oh, yeah. So that's such a hard one. Yes, honestly. And I don't I mean, it's, it's like a deep, dark, scary rabbit hole. If you're going to go down and talk about that. I mean, we know what we know. What I find astounding, personally, and kind of professionally or clinically, is that there are really cool things that come out, right? Like if this proved to be beneficial, yes, rats, or whatever they're studying it in. But we're planning to move into human trials. And you never end up hearing about those. And where did where did this product go to? Or where did this, you know, procedure? Where did it end up? Why is it not going any further. And there may be a very good reason that it never went to human trial that it never went any further and thus we never hear about it again. Right? But I think that's where maybe the myth comes from is, you hear something here like, wow, that's gonna be awesome. And then five years later, it's gone. It's a poof, gone. Where did the person disappear to?

Scott Benner 4:11
So what it reminds me of, and so I listen, I'll just say right now. That's it. That's a conspiracy theory. Right? Like, that's genuinely what that is and letter of the law. None of us know for sure. Maybe there are five really wealthy people who have been cured of their type one diabetes, we wouldn't know about it if that had happened. But it seems unlikely to me. But I think it gets perpetuated. First of all, because I think people's minds, like thinking about conspiracy stuff. I think it's kind of fun, right? But there's that story. I think everyone's heard a version of a story like this growing up. The one that was told to me was that, you know, decades ago, a guy invented a light bulb that never burned out. And he was super excited. And so he took it to a big probably General Electric or something like that went into a meeting. I had all this stuff, they're here with my light bulb samples, here's my, my work all my notes. I've made a light bulb that won't burn out. And they said, thank you very much, wrote him a check, took all this stuff and lit it on fire in front of him. Right, right. So that's the story that they told. And it's a, I don't know if it's a real story, or if it's a wives tale, but it's the idea of like, why would the company make light bulbs that don't burn out, they sell, they sell light bulbs, they want to keep making light bulbs. And then that's what happens around this. Why would a pharma company, you know, put themselves out of business, they're selling insulin. But here's the here's the thing, though, the people who sell the insulin, they're not the people who are looking for ways to cure diseases. That's not That's not the job's not the business they're in. Right, right. Now, somebody's gonna say, Okay, well, yeah, but they pay it off people and they're doing I don't know if that's happening or not. Let's be honest, that nobody knows for sure. But the way I always end up thinking about it is is that I don't know, when large amounts of people are involved in the conspiracy. It's difficult to keep it quiet. Like, you know what I mean? Like, do you think if there was a way to think about it? Yeah. Like, if there was really a cure for diabetes? Someone wouldn't whistleblow that. You know what I mean? Like, it would just take one guy with type one to know that to be like, Yo, and then I don't know.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:24
No, I yeah, I, I can see both sides. Yeah, I really can see both sides, I can see the standpoint of, as you said, the person or the business side of it selling, not really having any idea what's going on in the research side, they're just selling a product. I mean, it is a business, right? Well, whether it's technology or a medication or whatever, it's a business, sell the medication, right, get more users of this brand of insulin versus that brand of insulin, right. And I don't think any company wants to put themselves out of business. But that doesn't mean that they're going behind the scenes necessarily, and preventing research that could prove to many, many people an increase in quality of life from not having to manage like we do

Scott Benner 7:22
so. So oil companies aren't trying to figure out how to make electric cars, for example, but that doesn't mean that they're falsely propping up the gasoline industry. They're just that's not where they're putting their efforts. So that's the one thing so you know, people said, Hey, there's a secret cure, and Big Pharma doesn't want you to know about it. This is the thing that comes up so frequently online, like people, there are a number of people who are ultra sure that this is being kept from, it's why I put it in here, and I brought it up. Now, the next person says that it's even a myth that they're even working on a cure. And they say they again, like who the hell help, as you know,

Unknown Speaker 8:03
they right.

Scott Benner 8:04
But there are plenty of researchers out there working on cures for all kinds of things. Do they think they're going to come up with one? I don't know. I really don't know. Maybe they're just dorky lab, people who are going to make a living off of working on stuff for a lifetime. And maybe they literally think they're gonna get to it and etc. But it's happening. I've actually spoken to the people who are doing it like there are people working on it. I don't know that that means they're gonna figure it out. Right. And so I think that where that kind of comes like to ahead is the thing that almost everybody has been told, right. And I mean, I'm sure somebody said it to you and you were diagnosed, they said it to me when Arden was diagnosed, don't worry, a cure is like five years away. Touched by type one is a longtime sponsor of the Juicebox Podcast. And they are the people who gave me my very first chance to speak live to people living with diabetes. And I'm back at their event again, this year. Now go to touched by type one.org. Click on programs, then go to annual conference. And you're going to see that our free conference for individuals of all ages and backgrounds is coming up on September 16 2023. And the registration is open. The button is here and you can click it click on it. Click. I did it. It's free. What'd I just say? Registration is free. The entire day is free. I think they even feed you touched by type one.org. And I'm going to be there giving my talk he talks and guess who else I hear is going to be there. A little bird told me Jenny Smith is going to be there and know what is this? Jenny and Scott in Orlando on September 16 2023 for free. Are you kidding me? What are you people doing still listen been touched by type one.org. Get over there. It can it fill up? I think it could you know what I'm saying? Like don't wait. Yes. Do we know where that number came from?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:15
That's, I have. I've looked, honestly, I've looked where did it because when I was diagnosed, so many years ago, it was five to seven. That's what they're saying. That was the consistent thing that I heard all the way up until the point that I left for college. I heard five to seven years, five to seven years. So where did this random like? And where's their research? Like? Where are they getting it from? to actually pull a number like five to seven years? We're going to have a cure? I don't know. Yeah, they pulled it out of the atmosphere is? That's my honest belief. So

Scott Benner 10:55
my, my expectation is, it's an amalgam of things. So at some time, somebody must have said, well, there's this thing we're working on. And when we get over this last problem, it'll take us about five more years to get it out to the general public, right? And then someone hears that and goes, Oh, it's five years away. Correct. And then it's whisper down the lane. And then before you know it, you're in a room with a nurse who has been a nurse for two weeks, and she wants to be comforting to you, I guess it could be He, they want to be comforting to you. And they say a thing. This is where I think this comes from, I think it's meant to be comforting. That's really what I think, you know, yes. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:33
absolutely. No, that's a very valid point. I think that's also what my, what my doctor, when I was first diagnosed, was probably trying to comfort my parents. And, you know, I was old enough at that point, to also have an understanding of what life with diabetes was going to look like and was in, you know, what I had to do. And so maybe it was also for my earshot, to hear something that was good. Like, you're not going to have to deal with this forever, just hunker down, and do what we're telling you do for a little bit of time. And then you'll get here, right?

Scott Benner 12:11
And then five years from now will tell you just it's probably just five more years like that. Yeah. Now the unintended, like significant health consequence of telling a person that this thing they were just diagnosed with, is going to go away in five years. Do you? Are you thinking the same thing? I'm thinking it's people then don't take care of themselves? Because they think it's temporary?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:32
Could be Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the reason that when I heard that, from the beginning, I never really, I never took that, despite it coming from a clinician in a white coat in a very professional, you know, office space, my age, I just didn't take it for anything. I was like, I hear this great, whatever. But mom and dad are taking all the education that they were putting in, you know, to effect and teaching me how to use it incorporate into my life. And that was, that was what I did. The idea of something that was so unknown in what it could potentially be five to seven years from now. I don't think I even really considered that it was just do this, do this. And it means that I can do the other things in life that I've always been doing, and that I always want to do. But I think you're right. If somebody hears that in just a short time, maybe I don't have to really pay attention, because eventually, something's going to take care of this for me. So I just have to make it through enough.

Scott Benner 13:41
I've heard that from a number of people I've interviewed, it's one of the sadder things like Oh, it got away from me because I thought it wasn't going to be forever and then my health got worse and that and I didn't know really how to take care of it. So it all snowballed from there. Listen, generally speaking, I think people would think of me as cynical. I'm not cynical, I think of myself as realistic. Except this got the better of me when art was first diagnosed. So in a normal situation, if you told me don't worry, people are going to come up with a matte like they're going to, like, make a thing on the Earth that doesn't exist anymore, I'd say probably not. You know, like, as a species, we're not running around, inventing things constantly and making diseases go away. I wouldn't believe that. But when Arlen was diagnosed, and she was just a baby, the first time I saw one of those, those online things about a mice, you know, we cured a mouse and we're gonna move to human trials. We just have to fundraise a little bit like you know, it made it sound like they were just a check away from it happening. I went to my wife and another room, I was crying. Like I said, I said to her, how lucky are we that Arden was diagnosed with type one diabetes just a year before it was going to be cured? And that's actually how it felt. And so I for years, I go online around that time of year when everybody's out fundraising and I remind people this is just just this is them doing business, they're trying to make money to keep their lab going. They are not almost to a cure.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:06
Right, which is, I think it's fair and very important, to be honest about that, to be honest about we are fundraising for the company is the labs that are actually doing the work. We don't know how far they are in their work, but we have to continue their work. So your donations, your fundraising, will allow them to keep moving further in their research. But it doesn't mean that anything is right around the corner. No. And I think that's the hard thing. That's the hard thing to swallow, when you may be writing a cheque that you think is going to further it by leaps and bounds or sooner,

Scott Benner 15:48
yeah, plus, you have to make a decision about where to send that money, because and all those people are involved in a sales, that's a sales job to them, but they don't say come up with an idea. They think if we can put enough money into this, and time and effort, we're gonna get to something, most of them are going to be wrong. Like most of them are going to get to the end of their research and go up that didn't work. This didn't work or something else is going to come out of it. I think it's it's funny, though, because as I looked through people's comments, you know, 10 years ago, somebody told me 10 years, that was an 87, this person says 63 years, I've had type one diabetes, and people have been telling me since I was a teenager, it's gonna go away. Right? But where I get like, kind of sad, is that this person writes that a curious five years away, please stop blowing smoke up my ass, right? And you think, Okay, this is a person in line with what you and I are talking about. But then the rest of what they say My husband used to say there's no money in a cure. And I think that's how people feel. I don't honestly think that's right, though. I think if you could cure type one diabetes, there's money to be had. And, and my example will be prevention bio. Came up with tz yield, right? Yes. Which just is at this point, they just think it slows the onset of type one diabetes, right? By a fair amount? Yeah, no, no, it's exciting. But that's not my point. My point is that prevention BIOS sold themselves to Sanofi diabetes for $3 billion. That's money it like, I don't know, I don't have a billion dollars. So like, so there is money in that kind of stuff. Right? You know what I mean? Like it's, and I that's, I think,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:29
the point that you're also making is that it's not a fault of the company to further what they're trying to do and who they're trying to reach, there is still there's a goodness component there to what they're trying to do. And just because they sold and made money on it from a business side, they also sold to a much larger company that could potentially potentially propel it forward with much more strength than the small little company could potentially do

Scott Benner 18:00
those people, we're never going to be able to move it like that. Yeah, it's you need big entities that have the pockets to say, let's take a shot at this and see what we can do a company that if it doesn't go right, isn't going to fold for the $3 billion that they spent, which is crazy, right? But which

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:15
then folds everything that they have worked to put together thus

Scott Benner 18:19
far. They also make insulin and other things. And I think similarly, in that vein, like, Listen, I'm, I'm not a cheerleader for the JDRF one way or the other. But when they started saying, you know that they were focusing on supporting people with diabetes, and helping them be healthy. I thought that was terrific. But that was met with a lot of backlash from people who were like, No, you promised a cure. Right? Like and that and they said, look, I mean, we're gonna start putting money into other things. And that made people upset, but some of the money they put into it led to some of these algorithms and to see GMs and great, not on this curse, but a lot of good stuff. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:58
absolutely. Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. I mean, in terms of fundraising, fundraising, can go many different avenues, right, it can go for more money to a particular scientists doing something that's really proving to be valuable thus far, and some of the money might go to support programs that bring families together so that you get to know other people who have diabetes, as well. And some of the money might go to, you know, underserved in a way that gives them more education and gives them more opportunity to understand and live well. So you have to look at the broad scope of where donations may go is not all going in one direction, nor do I think it should.

Scott Benner 19:44
But I just listen I personally believe that you know, I hear people sometimes complain about like, oh, the CEO of this company, they give you seen how much money they make, and I'm like that's, that's the person you want in charge of this. Like a person who wants to make money knows how to make The Business powerful so that it can make money like you want what the good that comes from that, that, you know, in health, but you can't have like some, like, you know, some lady smelling like petroleum oil can't, it might isn't going to make the whole thing happy. She was like, I want everybody to have everything for free. That's great. We got to build an infrastructure, we gotta hire people, we need to sell something so we can afford to keep the lights on like that all has to happen to right. But you know, back to the idea of the cure thing. And I get it. Like I get when people say that I get when people speak the way I talk, I'm not like, I'm not defending it one way or the other. I started off by saying, that wouldn't surprise me if there were aliens in a bunker somewhere. And that fiber optics were from something we learned from a spaceship and that Bigfoot didn't exist in Canada and etc, and so on. Like, if you showed me that stuff, I'd be like, ah, that's crazy. But yeah, okay. Yeah, I totally get it. Right. Yeah. And by the way, if those things don't exist, I get I get the flux that we're in here. But right, my bigger point, I think, is that for your overall health and happiness, whether it's true one way or the other, it's not healthy for you to sit around angry thinking, someone's keeping this from me. Because if they are, you're not getting it anyway. And if they're not, you're just worried about something, you're

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:20
worried about something. And I, you know, I think the first time I can remember, like in my life, or my history with diabetes, of thinking down this conspiracy Avenue, was when I went to a, it was like a science based presentation. The JDRF had a group that provided new new technology information and what could be coming down the pipeline. It also had new scientific, like exploration into not necessarily cures, but more therapeutic kinds of things. And there was a scientist who came, and he presented on something that I think it was called smart insulin. And he, his presentation was phenomenal. To me, it was the idea of taking like an injection of Day of one kind of insulin that based on almost like a almost like a thermometer gauge in your body, the insulin would turn on at a certain level of glucose saturation. And it would turn off its effect based on a lower level of glucose in in the body, right? And it my first consideration to where did this go, because he had really good research. And then a year out, I went back and I remembered the presentation, I looked up information and like, where's the Cisco? Like, it's gone, like, go thinking, well, either somebody like stomped on this, or it proved to not be beneficial. So they didn't get to go forward with it. But I don't know. Like, where did it go? Who knows? So that was my first thought into.

Scott Benner 23:05
But some of the people here are thinking, yeah, yeah, well, it showed some promise. And one of the big insulin manufacturers came in and bought it and set it on fire because they don't want that. Meanwhile, you could sell smart insulin the same way you would sell other right. But anyway, I all finished with this. nearly 15 years ago, I did an interview when I only had a blog with a company who was working on implanting cells in a pouch and the pouch would stop your immune system from getting to the cells and attacking it. They make this little insertion put the pouch under you and it would this thing would act like a like a pancreas. Right? And when I was interviewing them, I said, so I said, just pretend for a minute. We got it all figured out today, right today. When do we see this? And he's and he really thought and he goes have 15 years maybe? And I was like I'm like, Wait, not what I meant was all the science is done. It's good. When do people hold it in their hands? He goes, Yeah, about 15 years. And he's like, you know, manufacturing, procuring the cells he'd like we'd have to start places to, you know, make the cells like all this stuff. And by the way, that thing still exists. I interviewed somebody in a trial for that recently. It was a blind study. So she wasn't sure if she got like, they cut her open, they cut some people are gonna put fake pouches in them, right? Because that's how the studies were. But she's like, I had the cells, I was barely using any insulin a couple months into it. So so it was working. And now other companies are figuring out ways to do that. And like, I mean, one of the big ideas there, the problem was at first, like your immune system would come after the cells. So they actually made a mesh that your immune system kind of like couldn't see through. But the cells could work to get out. I mean, I don't know all the technical words, but But point is is that it takes So long as time. And so like, I don't,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 25:03
not to mention approval, I mean, you have a, you have to have enough data points of information to even submit for potential approval for something like this. I mean, you know, things like insulin pumps outside the body or one thing, something that you're actually having to be invasive and cut into somebody, which could potentially trigger a reaction that you don't know is coming from that individual, you're gonna you have to have enough research that says in, you know, 99.9% of people, it has no detrimental effect

Scott Benner 25:36
also, no, it's not a forever thing, you have to get opened up, and it has to come out and they have to replace it sometimes. So like, there's a lot there. But and it's funny at the time, I asked my daughter, what would you think of that? And she said, I wouldn't do that. And I was like, okay, she goes, I don't want to go to a doctor's office every six months and have an incision made to like, she's like, I don't think I would do that. The first I would agree with her. And the person who had it done said it was fantastic. So even like, can you imagine working for 25 years to come up with something, you bring it to market? And people go? No, no, thanks. Anyway, I don't know what's real and what's not. But what I think is that you don't do yourself any favors by torturing yourself about one way or the other. Correct. What I usually tell people is that when they asked me if I think there'll be a cure for diabetes, which is a question that oddly, I get asked a lot. I say, I don't think there will ever be a cure in my lifetime. But I live like, there. I live like there won't be I hope, like there will be. So I take care of my daughter as if this is what that what it is. This is what it is. Yeah. And but I don't ever lose hope of it. Like it wouldn't surprise me. You know, like if somebody figured something out eventually. But you know, in a world where, you know, people have inflammation and they have joint pain from inflammation, and we can't figure out how to stop that. Like, this seems like a much bigger problem to me. So Correct. Anyway, yeah. Appreciate you doing this with me.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:05
Of course, yes.

Scott Benner 27:11
Jennifer Smith works at integrated diabetes.com. Go check her out, will you won't you, won't you please. I don't even I don't even know what I meant to say there. And don't forget touched by type one.org. The big event is coming up on September 16. It is free for everyone who lives with or is touched by type one. Head over there now and get your spot. Go hit that Register Now button. Do not wait. It will fill up. It has amazing speakers at it. I mean, of course it's gonna fill up. Wait, do you see when we're all in a room together? How much fun is going to be touched by type one.org I'm going to ask you to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, go become a member get involved in the conversation. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. When you support the Juicebox Podcast by clicking on the advertisers links, you are helping to keep the show free and plentiful. I am certainly not asking you to buy something that you don't want. But if you're going to buy something, or use the device from one of the advertisers, getting your purchases set up through my links is incredibly helpful. So if you have the desire or the need, please consider using Juicebox Podcast links to make your purchases

#977 Looping Around

Tina's son has type 1 diabetes. Today we talk about loop and Omnipod 5.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 977 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's podcasts I'll be sorry my phone was muted. On today's podcast I'll be speaking with Tina. She's the mom of a young man living with type one diabetes. She is very involved in the looping community. We're going to talk about looping and Omni pod five today. While you're listening to us talk about that. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan for becoming bold with insulin. Check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes want to talk to some people who are looping or using Omnipod five or that new Medtronic 780 G I've been seeing a lot of posts for that lately, but also I see T slim libre Dexcom, anything you want to talk about? We talked about it in there. Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook, it's a private group with 40,000 members in it. I bet you there's a conversation happening right now that you would enjoy. I have a ton of episodes about algorithm pumping, go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu, click on algorithm pumping or in the private Facebook group, the feature tab, there's a whole list of episodes. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by cozy earth. Now, at cozy earth.com. When you make your purchase doesn't matter if you buy one thing or 50 things if it's $1 billion dollars. If you use the offer code juice box at checkout, you will save 40% off of your entire order. So just think of what 40% off a billion dollars worth of joggers would be. Now I put myself in a position where I have to figure out what 40% Of a billion is. Alright, so a billion. I mean, just in case one of you buys a billion dollars worth of sheets, towels and joggers, a billion divided by two, which would be half a billion or 500 million, right? Yeah. So then 400 You'd say $400 million off your billion dollar purchase with my offer code. That's incredible. Also, you'd say 40 cents off. $1 $40 off. 100 You know how percentages work? Anyway, that's what you get for listening to the podcast. 40% off at cozier when you use the offer code juice box at checkout. today's podcast is also sponsored by one of my favorites, US med us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888721151 for us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from and you can as well get your free benefits check today with my link or that special 888 number. It's just for Juicebox Podcast listeners. Us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888-721-1514 Get your stuff the way we do from us med. First of all, let me turn it right on. If you're planning on crying, let's start recording right now.

Tina 3:16
It's been a it's been an emotional last couple of days.

Scott Benner 3:19
Okay, I cried. The episode that went up today. This this young girl, she's like 18, she was talking about how she she was trying to like, do some public speaking. Yeah, she set this thing up at her local library where she was going to talk about chronic illness and service dogs. And no one showed up. And she still gave the talk to the one person that helped her set the thing up from the library and she's telling me this, and I am Oh, that's hard. I'm like crying while she's telling me and I was on cold medicine at the time. So I'm like, I think this might be the cold medicine. I was like, but she really got me. I was like, wow, she did it anyway. You're starting to get me Yeah, you know, I mean, if I shut up and no one. Listen, you don't know. Like if I showed up and no one showed up. I'd be like, I gotta go.

Tina 4:08
I think it's even. I don't know. It's how awkward it is for the one person that's there.

Scott Benner 4:15
And they all did it, I thought was really cool. So anyway, you introduce yourself the way you want to be known meaning you don't need your last name. If you bring up other people in your life, I don't care as a matter of fact, I don't care what you talk about, like with all sincerity, you can talk about whatever you want. But just don't use someone's name and then an hour from now say Oh, I shouldn't have said like Patty's name be like like, you know, can you go back and take out the 17 times I mentioned my aunt or something like that. Like please just don't do that. But other than that, it's absolutely up to you what you talk about I don't care. Make sense. I'll try not to see names okay for call names. You can curse if you want. I'll just Yeah, yeah. All right. Go ahead, introduce yourself. We'll start We're talking, you are being recorded.

Tina 5:02
All right. Hey, I'm Tina. And I have a newly 13 year old son who was diagnosed on July of 2019. So he's getting getting ready to hit us four years, actually next week.

Scott Benner 5:16
Yeah. Wow. Was it right at the beginning of July? It was July the third. Did he get it for the centennial? For the, for July 4? Was it? Uh, he sure

Tina 5:26
did. It was on a Wednesday, Tuesday, Tuesday night, my husband and my husband Phil and I were talking about some problems he had been having, which included a lot of Bedwetting, that had just arisen in the last like four or five days. And we, we decided I would take him to the pediatrician that have it checked out, because actually, we have quite a quite a bit of history with older adults on our life with UTIs. And, you know, so the first thing that's kind of coming to my mind is like, maybe he has a UTI, but also I was like, Maybe it's his age, and he's he's starting to hit a growth spurt, you know, things like that. And so, so I said, I will take, you know, give it, give it a day, and see how tomorrow goes, and if, you know, if tomorrow doesn't things don't improve, then I'll take them in to the pediatrician on Thursday, and haven't checked for UTI. And my husband said, yeah, and have a sugar checked. And I literally, it's like, one of those, you know, memorable moments of life that I can't imagine, you know, I was just like, I can't even fathom that, that would be an issue for for him. But I said, Okay, I will get up in the morning, and I'm going to take him tomorrow morning, instead of waiting, because I realized that the next day was the fourth of July, and Friday, I was supposed to fly out to Chicago to see a friend. And so I actually wound up staying up for quite a while that night, like, check in and you know, just checking on him and also thinking, well, maybe I should call him into the ER. But then also, you know, no, no, it can't be because that's, that's not, you know, we don't have problems like that. What so the next morning, I got up and I took them to the to the pediatrician immediately. And they they had had us in there like by 830 and had him pee in a cup and brought a glucometer and checked his his blood sugar. And the the pediatrician put, you know, Reese's sitting up, and I don't think I introduced my son's name, his name is Rex. But he's sitting on the table. And she puts the glucometer down on the other side of him. And she walks out of the room. And I'm sitting on the bench, and I stood up and I looked at the glucometer. And it said 271. And it was literally like you see in a movie. I felt like this, like were you back up really fast and then slam into a wall, you know. And I made no reaction. I just sat down and waited. And she came back in. And actually before she came back in recessed Mom, why is there a blood sugar checker in here? And I said, Why do you know what that is? And he says, I saw it on Tim and maybe that's a little learning app that he has and enjoys. And I said well, the symptoms that you have are, you know, they're possibly symptoms of type one diabetes, and he immediately starts screaming, I want to have a normal functioning pancreas. And I'm just like, what? And he goes, and then he starts screaming, I don't want to die. I don't want to die, which got me you know, rip me apart. And so anyway, I you know, they they taught, came back in and said we so he has type one diabetes, and we have called the hospital and you need to go straight there and they will rush you back. They're expecting him and they will get you in immediately. And I and we were actually right across the street from the hospital. He was born in and I said do you mean the hospital right across the street? And she goes oh no, he needs to go to the big hospital with the Children's Hospital. You're gonna be there for several days and I'm like

Scott Benner 9:45
look questions. Why did your husband think to say blood sugar?

Tina 9:51
Oh, I really don't know. Um, but we have no diabetes in our family. We have no Actually no autoimmunity in our family in our big family, you know, and I just don't know. But I also felt kind of like an idiot because I have a medical background. And it didn't. That just wasn't the thing that I thought of either.

Scott Benner 10:17
And then the other question I have is that where does Ries come up with functioning pancreas at nine years old? Is it from an app? Or you don't know,

Tina 10:26
Reese's? A little bit on the precocious side, shall we say? He, he has a lot of knowledge. And he collects it about all kinds of different things. And he, yeah, he said, he just everything he sees on there, he pretty much can reference in the future. You know,

Scott Benner 10:51
I mean, that's upsetting for you. But I was impressed with all all that he knew. I mean, he was nine.

Tina 10:58
Yeah, he just turned nine. It's crazy. So I cancelled my trip to Chicago, and actually canceled my trip that was going to be a month later, I supposed to go down to Guatemala. And we got on ride.

Scott Benner 11:13
Chicago and Guatemala, your friends in Guatemala as well.

Tina 11:18
We have a group from our church who goes down? Well, it's not just a group. But different people go down and have been doing it for probably 12 or 15 years now built a library and have a lot of programs down in Guatemala in this certain village called palot. Up in the mountains, and like they've taught tilapia farming and pig farming, and you know how to how to manage business well, and then built a library stocked them with computers, taught them how to use them, we have we support students through scholarships, so we, and they have to pay for school from middle school through high school through college. So we've got students that we, we support doing that well. And they they take trips a couple times a year.

Scott Benner 12:09
Very nice. Okay. So is Reese. How was the in the hospital? I'm trying to, I'm trying to imagine him in the hospital with all of his, like, half knowledge that he has built up and what was going on? Like, how did that process go for him?

Tina 12:25
He was so just just worn out. And he had a lot of symptoms that of course, we attributed to other things. But he, he was shocked. He was not happy. He was not comfortable. But we had so such a good team in the hospital. And so many people came and saw us every day there were there were usually a lot of people in there with us. And I think he took it pretty well. He gave himself his first shot in the hospital. And they eventually let us go home.

Scott Benner 13:02
How about you? How did you take it?

Tina 13:05
Not as well, I was I was a mess. And normally I'm like our family's medical reference person, the person they call when they have anything they want to know what it is, you know, can you come check this out? And we're in the hospital and I'm asking my husband, can you can you talk to the doctor when he comes in? Because I don't have my words, you know, and I was just, I'm just devastated. And it it literally took me we were in there for three days. And it it took me till about the time we left to feel like we could that I could be okay to leave.

Scott Benner 13:41
Were you worried that you couldn't manage it? Or was it like a psychological like overwhelming? Or were what do you think you're?

Tina 13:50
Well, I had no people with type one pretty much all my life. Not many people, but I had a friend in school when I was in elementary, middle school. And then I had a really good friend who in college who had it and you know, I saw that they could live and thrive. And I don't know, I just was not prepared at all I knew it would be would alter our lives forever. And I wasn't prepared for that. And and it really took me a while to you know, to be accepting of it.

Scott Benner 14:25
Yeah. Where do we meet? I have a feeling that we speak privately. In the beginning we did write like by video, right? Like we spoke.

Tina 14:41
I had written something on on the Facebook page answer to something some I made a suggestion on somebody's post. And then you said you reached out and said hey Tina, can I call you? And I said sure. So I was actually at the emergency room with my mother and when You called and I stepped outside and we were talking where the where the ambulance pulls up. And you're like, if this isn't a good time, I'm like, this is a good time.

Scott Benner 15:11
I'm looking at not to be in the emergency room.

Tina 15:13
That was that was in was either September or October of 2019.

Scott Benner 15:18
Wow, it's such a long time ago. Okay. And the I guess I just want to lead into how you got to looping at first i So what's the technology and the understanding you leave with the hospital? And how long does it take you? And how does it then what's the path you take to learn about looping?

Tina 15:42
So this was this is part of maybe part of why it was so hard for me, um, is that my husband and I are both. I'm retired, shall I say, molecular biologists, and we deal with precision and accuracy. And, you know, these people in the hospital or hospital are telling you give him one unit for this many carbs. And if he goes below 70 Give him 15 grams, you know, that kind of thing? And I'm like, Okay, what if he's at 71? And they're like, nope. And like, what if what, you know, just questions like that. Yeah, question. Okay, what if this Nope, don't do it, then what can I do even 10 carbs? Nope, give them 15. And I'm just like, okay, and then at some point, I was like, I think back about it and I feel really kind of silly knowing what I knew now, but they didn't tell me any differently. They didn't tell me the why I guess I should say okay, but I was I would, I would say can you just tell us exactly how much for this or exactly how much for that and they're like No, you'll you'll figure it out and I'm like, but we just if we just know the exact number everything we can handle this and that may maybe it was part of it was like not being able to put your finger on it. You know

Scott Benner 17:14
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Isn't it interesting, right? There's so much information left out of that, like I understand the idea if you get low take 15 grams, because we don't want you to keep getting low and 15 should be enough. But then they don't talk about like what you just said like what if really 15 is not the answer. What is the answer? six grams? Or, you know, why can't I do something at a 75 blood sugar while it's falling? If I know it's gonna get lower, and it's because they're not there. And they don't know the they don't know any of the details of the pretend scenario you're imagining in the future. So they give you this sort of like, I don't know, like it's an emergency. It's an emergency like thing. It's like, yeah, in case of Baba, bah, pull this cord. But that's kind of how it feels.

Tina 21:56
Yeah, and they don't, they don't take into account that maybe he doesn't need as much insulin for this exact same thing as he needed yesterday. You know, they don't take it into account. And

Scott Benner 22:07
I just think like one more sentence, you know, like, but it might not always be like this, or you exactly. And just as the scenario dictates like this would be, it would be an amazing eye opener for people. And they wouldn't get stuck in these like this number, this happens if this situation that happens. And instead they'd be able to see what what's really big picture happening and make better decisions. And yet it's not talked about like that. And it should be I

Tina 22:42
actually at one point, I started, you know, briefly working on a program to present to them to them being my son's endocrinologist who he's the head of the system that that we're in. And I have to say, I love him. He's He's amazing, and very accommodating and supportive and everything. But he still, you know, he doesn't live with it. He doesn't live with it in his house. And but anyway, I was working on something to to maybe be, you know, the product of which to be something that they could give two new patients that said, this is where we're at now, you know, you're at step one. Now. When these things happen, we're going to teach you step two, when things happen there, we're going to teach you step three, you know, and then I don't know I got off that path.

Scott Benner 23:38
Yeah, you're done being mad about it, and you moved on to something else?

Tina 23:42
Well, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't come to fruition.

Scott Benner 23:44
Nobody was actually going to do anything with it. Yeah, yeah. No, no. Okay, so he's managing with syringes with pens. Do you get a CGM right away? Like how does all that work?

Tina 23:58
So they gave him pens, one unit pens, and we actually had two and his ratio was, I don't know, one to 25, something like that. And so we'd have to actually add carbs for every meal because we didn't want to take carbs away. We didn't want to say you can't eat as much as you're used to because you can't, you know, we you can't have the insulin for it or will give you too much insulin. So we found ourselves actually giving him more and more carbs to to make it so he could have one unit or two units. You know, it depends on what do you what he felt like. And then downstream, I finally asked the Endo, I said, Hey, I hear their half unit pens, how about you prescribe one of those for us? And he says I could do that, which really changed everything. And then so he was diagnosed in July, and we were offered Dexcom not in the hospital. It was discussed first and then like, he even like when we went back two days later to his office, he offered it to us. And we, you know, I was kind of like, trying to settle down trying to get a grip, you know? Yeah. And I delayed it a little bit, but I think he was on it. I think it was like an as two week appointment.

Scott Benner 25:20
Okay, we got on it. And that long ago. Is that G six? G six? Yeah. Right. So I see you jump in with a really good sensor. Already a G SIX sensors really good. So like, you didn't go chi five was like, they were still getting it? You don't I mean? So. Yeah, that's not bad. And, but only half unit, the need for half units still. So you said a very little bit of insulin? I imagine. So again, was he using a very little bit of insulin? Mostly?

Tina 25:54
Yes. Yeah. Yes. And we were, you know, talking to the office to the CDE, at least on the daily about changing his basil, and, you know, changing things. And then finally, one day, it was like, we don't need to call them which was pretty cool. Yeah, to realize that, you know,

Scott Benner 26:16
I remember that. That feeling like, oh, I guess I don't really need to call. I guess I do know what to do here. Like that first moment where you think, Oh, I might be able to figure this out. That's yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty excellent.

Tina 26:29
Yeah, her endo offered us a pump pretty right away, too. And I said, you know, not ready, not ready. And it honestly, it was like his just about six months, right? After six months. diversionary so you say that we did start on the pump. And you know, going from half a unit capability down to point o five is astounding.

Scott Benner 26:57
Yeah, that's a big deal, isn't it? What pump? Did you start with? Omni pod? Okay. And so when do you? I mean, cuz I'm assuming because your background, you were looking into the technology a little bit and, and the idea of like, wanting to be precise, like, I'm assuming is what gets you to the internet. Right? So what do you find first that, like, is it me? Is that like something else? Like, where do you start to dig in.

Tina 27:26
So you were in my back pocket from pretty much day one. Because a friend whose son is type one who's who's a little older than my son, she reached out and said, we'd like to come see you on the hospital. And we we decided we didn't want anybody to come see us. That's how freaked we were. And but she she stayed in touch. And she said, I have these recommendations. And she said, you know, the number one was to Juicebox Podcast. And I was like, what is that? And so I was intrigued. But I was really afraid of going on the internet or, you know, anywhere and starting to hear scary stories. And my heart can take that. And I was like, I just can't. So I did no research at all. And I didn't didn't start listening to the podcast for a little while. And it was it was a few weeks in, I finally was like, Okay, I'm ready to ready to start branching out ready to start learning more. And so I found what I what I felt was a safe book. And it very much was and I I started listening to the podcast. And I'm joined the Facebook group. And would you like me to elaborate?

Scott Benner 28:51
No, no, I liked that idea. Because I think, first of all, I have two thoughts. There's somebody right now, in that situation, who will start to listen to this podcast six months from now. Somebody's told them about it. And they think it's a good idea, but they're not going to do it. I'm learning very much that my adoption, the rate of adoption takes a long time for people like it's not people don't just go oh, wait, there's a podcast that helps. Great. I'll start listening right now, like some people do. But for the most part, it doesn't go that way. And that's the second thing I want to say is that I understand that. Like I make this podcast, I see everybody's feedback. I know how it helps them. And yet when I hear it, I think yeah, that doesn't make sense. Like why would I just start listening to a podcast because my kid was diagnosed with something, or because I turn up at the doctor and he's like, Hey, you have type one diabetes. Your first thoughts now, I should probably go find a podcast that gets some people's first thought but not most people and it's not sexy. Or, like, you know, some of these podcasts that are like all about like, Oh, we're gonna biohack you into being like Lean and like that kind of Yeah, that doesn't actually work for anybody could biohack that would be awesome. Yeah, by the way, like all that stuff that everybody wants to be true, but for the most part doesn't work for anyone. It but I understand why those are popular even and I understand why somebody could be easily drawn into it. I, I think it's a slog to get to this, I have to be honest with you. I don't know, if Arden was diagnosed, and somebody told me there was a podcast about diabetes, and it would help me, I don't think I would have listened to it either. So yeah,

Tina 30:33
I just wasn't, I just wasn't ready to take in more more really personal, personal slash objective information. It's like, I need the objective. I need the how to, how to keep them alive, how to help them thrive, how to make it work. And then once I got that down, down, haha. Once I felt, you know, like, Okay, I think I think we can make it through a day. Okay. You know, it's like, Okay, go ahead and add in. And, um, honestly, you're the years is that for first Pat podcasts that I've, that I started listening to have of any podcasts because I had checked out podcasts before. And I was like, Oh, they're so hard, like, hard to pick what podcast to listen to, and hard to know, you know, what to download and when to download and how much it's going to, you know, monopolize my phone and you know, things like that.

Scott Benner 31:36
I'm also very snobby about how people's voices sound. Like, I don't want to hear oh, yeah, like, nasally people talk to me. I think energy bothers me a lot. So, you know, I'm bad at that. There's a lot of reasons why I start to listen to something and then think, oh, no, this isn't for me.

Tina 31:55
Oh, yeah. I've bought a book on on on Audible a couple of times and started to listen, I'm like, I can't get it. And so I I got a refund.

Scott Benner 32:03
Yeah. Also, bad microphones, bad audio, like stuff like that. Like, I've gotten better, obviously, over the years. But even on day one. I didn't know what I was doing. I still overspent on a microphone. I thought it had sound good. Or like, what's the point? Like, I wish I would have bought this one first, if I'm being honest with you, but anyway, okay, so you find this you start to dig in? What is it you figure out first? And how long does it take you to think I want automated insulin delivery.

Tina 32:37
So honestly, the comfort of having people who are in the same boat you're in and hearing how how well that, you know, how they can live and keep going and smile and laugh and everything that was of such benefit to me. And, and always is, because community is everything with type one community is everything. And I tell I help a lot of people that are newly diagnosed or who have kids that are. And that's what I tell them to start with them, like community is everything. And I do start the baby steps, you know, and I always tell them about the podcast and and tell them about the Facebook group. And I'm like, it's, you know, it may be overwhelming at first. So you may, you know, may want to peek at it and not jump in or you may want to jump in. But you know, there are people that will help you there in the wee small hours of the morning, which, you know, you did me very, you know, pretty early on, when Reese got double dosed one night before bed, and this is in the in the very early days, you know, when we were fingerstick in and you're sticking? No, it was after after Dexcom. But, um, but yeah, sometimes I won't forget,

Scott Benner 33:59
I can't tell how many people I've had phone conversations with over the years, who I've only ever met that one time. I've never seen them again, but through like, you know, a confluence of circumstances, somebody points them to you online. And they reach out and say something that just doesn't seem like it's something you can manage, like typing back and forth. And the idea I took too much insulin story is pretty common. I've had more than my fair share of conversations with people were they're like, Hey, I don't know what to do right now. Like I'm this close to calling 911. And instead they're talking to like a stranger on the phone. And, you know, you're telling them like common sense things. I'm like, Look, first of all, I'm not a doctor and call 911 If you want to, like but you just injected this much insulin. You know, what's your carb ratio? Let's reverse engineer this math and see how much you'd have to eat for this just to be a really good Pre-Bolus You know, and yeah, and that is Usually what gets people through, but most of the time, you know, I mean, some people,

Tina 35:04
yeah, and my

Scott Benner 35:07
God, I'm sorry,

Tina 35:08
I've sorry. There, there were times also when I, you know, was up at night, trying to deal with it and just very lonely and I'm like, I'm gonna turn on the podcast because this is, you know, these are people who, you know, are in the same boat as I am, who can keep me company through the night. So there, there have been, you know, been times where you've kept me company. And we always appreciate that. But um, I'd say the first thing other, you know, after the great community, probably one of the first things was that you don't need to throw 15 grams at it. And I guess along with that, if you need more insulin, yeah, need more insulin,

Scott Benner 35:56
right? Yeah, it's a big step for people. Isn't it like that? You know, it seems so silly when you say it out loud. But you know, your blood sugar is high, you probably need more insulin. That's yeah. And

Tina 36:09
it's, and I, you know, sometimes when Reese is high, or, yeah, when he's high, I'll, I'll be like, Well, I'm gonna Bolus him for, say a one unit snack. And if he needs to snack, he'll get it. And if he doesn't need it, he won't get it. And I think if you think of it in that sort of way, it's a lot easier to give, you know, to go ahead and give another unit or however much he needs. And it's not like I go say, Hey, you want to snack? You might get her you might? I don't do that.

Scott Benner 36:38
I'm gonna give you some insight, and then we'll decide later if you're getting an ice cream. No, I do. I do. Sorry, Scott. No, is that from that idea of like when I tell that story about art and getting high at basketball? Is that where that comes from? When I say like, look, we used to show up at this thing. Sometimes her blood sugar would rise, sometimes it would fall. And we didn't know about adrenaline at that time. Like we were still figuring it all out. But you know, I couldn't show up and watch her blood sugar jumped to 220. So I started Bolus and I started Pre-Bolus thing what I thought the rise was going to be, but then my wife was like, Well, what if it doesn't go up? It didn't go up last week. And I said, Well, in that case, I'll just give her enough insulin that we're basically Pre-Bolus and juicebox. And if it doesn't go up, then she can drink the juice to counteract the insulin. Is that where that hole comes from? For? You

Tina 37:25
know? I don't know. I do. I think I do remember that. Um, but I remember trying, you know, wrestling with how much, you know, this is a lot of insulin to give him but if I just changed my thought process of it, as you know, being Bolus for a snack, then, and just wait. Yeah, because he's not in a range where I would give him a snack. If I just wait for him to get there. He might have it and then I started actually extrapolating. Okay, so when he was first on the pump, or when he was on the pump, just the pump. His dia I think was two hours. And so I'd be like, okay, at one hour, I know from experience, this is how much insulin we really have to deal with. So I would see how, how fast he would start coming down. And if it took a while for him to start, I would know we're dealing with a smaller snack if we're dealing with snack at all, you know, like that. And that's the kind of thing where the, the scientist in me engages so maybe over fully?

Scott Benner 38:35
Well, so what? When did when do you find out about like DIY looping? And how long does it take you to make your way into understanding it and actually doing it.

Tina 38:47
So pretty well run after Rhys was diagnosed I had a lot of people probably more than a dozen people say, I want to come talk to you. Um, you know, I have type one somebody in my family has type one or I want to introduce you to somebody that I know who has a kid with type one. And so it was actually wonderful and so overwhelming. And you know, the people that I was the closest to they're the ones that you know, that of course came first and not everybody got you know, needed to come but I remember one of them told me told me a few things that I went to downstream and checked out and I think that one of them was was dry looping and at first I was like there is no way and in fact I remember telling Reese's No, there was no way I would ever do that. It's not FDA approved. It's you know, I don't know who these people are, you know the whole

Scott Benner 39:47
Yeah. Oh, how can read How can I possibly isn't a boy reactions to that. That news that yeah, online?

Tina 39:57
Yes, I for a long time I was you know for Do long I guess I was because I wasn't sleeping, I was like, I am not. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, we're gonna build loop. So you build it, build lead. And say, here's the computer, here are the directions build loop. And so he did. And we got, we got Rhys up and running and close the loop on the night of the second day. And, you know, I was up late watching it, and I was like, I'm gonna close this, I'm gonna see what happens. I'm gonna go to sleep. And it wasn't like, you know, close it, go to sleep. It was close it watch it for a while, go to sleep. And I got the best night's sleep I had had and months. And, you know, that's, that's how we launched with it.

Scott Benner 40:47
Yeah. Hey, the sleep will sell your for sure. On any, on any of the algorithms at all? Absolutely. So you. So did you get involved in it, then? Like, were you helping on like loot pages on Facebook? And like, did you get involved? Or did you stay on the outskirts of it?

Tina 41:05
So I pretty, you know, the as you know, the documentation for loop is vast, and loop docs. And it says, do not print this out, read it online, because it changes frequently. So I printed the whole thing out, literally, it's a notebook this thick. Because reading online for me is like, like, I might get lost, I'm not sure where to go back to, you know, I can easily mark pages easier. And keep in mind that if I really want to know something, you know, if something's critical, go look online, and whatnot. So I printed it out. And I read the docs, and he read the docs and found the looped Facebook group. And went went on there and did lots of reading and some some question asking and I saw on on somebody's post, there was an answer about how to how to Bolus for meals. That was very different from, you know, what, what I was used to doing at all, I was used to bolusing for carbs, and then later bolusing for fat and protein on the rise. And so the person that wrote, you know, answered this question on the post, I said, Hey, would you mind if I asked you some questions? And she said, Sure. So we went private. And I asked her some questions, and she helped me, you know, figure out how to how to do things the way she was saying and told me why she did them that way. And, you know, and she spent a good bit of time that day with me, which I was not expecting. And then the next the next morning, I said, Hey, this is how the night went. I said we didn't want it if I ask you a couple more questions, and she said, I'm gonna stay with you. So she did. And, um, she actually is on my admin team for loop and learn. And somehow down the way another person who's on my admin of of loop and learn, asked me if I wanted to help with some things there. And then eventually, I was invited to become a moderator on the page. Gotcha. That's great. In the group questions, it's

Scott Benner 43:11
how it works. Like somebody has to stay behind and help somebody else. You know, like most people go on, but some people stay and it's lovely. And so you had that experience, somebody helped you and you thought, wow, hang around and help somebody else?

Tina 43:24
Yeah, I've always been, you know, like, if somebody needs help you help them. Period. Yeah. Unless, you know, unless it causes harm to you or somebody that you know, somebody else. But generally, if somebody needs help you help them so I, I really, am you know, about helping people in every way that I possibly can. And what I am not a code person I do I have made some suggestions that have become some code, which I'm very happy about and and, but as for the coding itself, no clip, give

Scott Benner 44:00
me an example of something you suggested that ended up in the in the app.

Tina 44:05
Um, it's not in the app. It's a it's a what do you call it? A patch slash customization is one and this is one I wasn't the only person that suggested it, but I kind of pushed that you know. And it's the the now bar that used to be part of Luke the bar that is like where you are now. And here's, you know, behind it, the history and in front of it's the future. And so we kind of, you know, got got a little ruckus going about that again, and the person who writes or who has historically written most of the code for loop, didn't want it in there. And so wouldn't

Scott Benner 44:54
you froze. Tina, you are frozen. Frozen for It was in frozen. Tina, you frozen? You were frozen for a while. I don't know if you hear me. Yeah, he didn't want it in there. Ah. Can you hear me out? Yeah. So go back to the Yeah, the code

Tina 45:22
didn't want it in there. So became a patch. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 45:25
But so people? Oh, I mean, I have it. I think it's nice.

Tina 45:31
Yeah, I was like, you know, constantly like holding the phone at an angle, like trying to see exactly where we are precision, accuracy. But like, it was just really valuable on he didn't want it. And I'm like, Why? Why is it that big of a deal? That you won't put it back in there. But we got it back. Um, so. So anyway, yeah, I, I enjoyed being a moderator and loot. And I do a lot of editing. And, and I was organizing the editing team for awhile, and we have kind of a big, big team, but not very many on the team actually do anything. So we have so

Scott Benner 46:16
I have a lot of experience with that. It's hard to like, there's never a shortage of people who say they want to help. But the people who follow through are lesser than the those who yell I want to help like I have, obviously, my I have a fairly robust Facebook group. I think that's a polite way to say, I don't want to say that I have the most active and valuable diabetes Facebook group that exists, but I think I do, but that's neither here nor there. But it's there's so many people in it and so many posts. Like there's two options. Either you get people to help you, or you just go wild west and you tell people like look, I'll do what I can do. But for the most part, you're on your own, which is how I grew it honestly, like I was not a very active like I don't I'm not into telling people how to be.

Tina 47:09
I remember when people were offering to help and you're like, Nope, this is a solo thing. And then all of a sudden, one day, turn the corner or hit the wall or something.

Scott Benner 47:18
I don't know what I hit, I might, I might have turned the wall and hit the corner. But I was just like, wow, this is so big. It does like I haven't looked, it changes so quickly, that I haven't looked in a little while. But my best guess is that it does 110 On average posts every day. Like I think that's about where it's at. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot to keep up with. Yeah, and you can't honestly, like you just you can try, and you can do your best etc. But it's not something that you can just, I don't know, you just can't stay on top of it the way that I think people would, would expect that you should, except I've learned that that's not really important. Like you don't have to moderate it like, quote unquote, the way people think you do. Mostly people are decent. And they they do the right thing for the most part. Yeah. And

Tina 48:11
they drag you in when they need to. And I know I've done that before. Yeah, you need to see this.

Scott Benner 48:17
Once in a while I get the like, hey, come over here. But I'm looking right now. There's just under 40,000. Members. Wow. In the last month, 35 36,000 of them were active. And the average day is about 100 posts can go up to 125. And every once in a while it goes down to 80. But only a couple of times a month. So there's a slow days. Yeah, the slow days, there's ad posts, add new posts. Yeah, there's no

Tina 48:49
way you can keep up with that. And I don't I mean, I I can't keep up with the posts and loop and learn. I don't I don't try. I mean, I don't try on the daily to keep up with them. I do like to go. I do like to keep up with them. But I'm so busy with other things too, that that that's hard for me. And I'm not the person either. That is like this is how you This is how you make it all work. That's not me. I do have insight and cool things to share sometimes. But um, but yeah, um, there are people on there, though, that I don't know how they do it. They see, you know, they basically see everything they are able to answer the questions. They have the knowledge, they have the ability to combat it.

Scott Benner 49:32
It's astonishing, like it really is, like between the new so it's a private group, so you have to answer questions to get in. But there are some times where the algorithm holds you up. And then you have to be like hand approved by somebody. I have to hand approve 30 accounts a day. And then eventually, you know, there's going to be a scammer every three months or every three weeks and you got to go in there and like stop somebody from scamming somebody out of Money or like something like that. And then once in a while somebody goes crazy. Like last night somebody went crazy. And I was like, where did that even come from? Was like, how did that happen? And it was, it was crazy. It was, this person had gotten not in my group and a different group, they had gotten ripped off. Somebody told them, they were selling supplies, they gave him some money in the person wasn't even a person, it was just a scammy account, they took their money and didn't give them anything. So they went around to try to tell people about this, which is I thought, great, you know, look out for these accounts. Like I got scammed by them. Another person comes in and says like, hey, like, you know, I, you gotta be careful. Like, it was like that kind of thing. And then those two people didn't jive. And then somehow these two people who completely agreed on trying to help people started fighting with each other. And I was, and it doesn't happen often. Like I know, people probably imagine that. That's what Facebook is constantly. I'm very proud of my group. Like it does not devolve like that. Hardly ever. But now I'm watching them fight with each other. And I'm like, What is going on now? And I'm working like, it's 10 o'clock at night. I'm making a podcast. I'm building web pages for the podcast, I'm answering emails, I've got like 30 people that want to come on the show. I'm trying to get back to them. People want to buy ads. I'm like all by myself. And I'm like you stop arguing. It's funny.

Tina 51:25
It's easy to get provoked. It really is. I know, there have been a couple of times where I've been like, an answer to somebody and I'm like, do I want that out there? No, no, go back and delete it.

Scott Benner 51:36
Yeah. Well, anyway, like it just like it's overall. And I don't even want to say this. Like, like, I'm like, oh, overall, don't it's good. Like, exceedingly overall, it's amazing. It's really good. If you're a background person looking at it, like the little things that pop up are just like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't do this. Like not now. Like why now? Or like, you know, I'm in the middle of like, trying to bring my kid home from school or something. And I've got like three notes like, Hey, you got to look at this post. And I'm like, leave me. Leave me out. Anyway, yeah. But it's, it's a really valuable way to learn, to ask questions to learn. I've never seen lurking and be more valuable. Like I had a woman pop up the other day. And she's, she's she sent me a note. She's like, I gotta tell you, I just, I've been in this group for three years. She's like, it's helped me immensely. I've never once posted or answered anybody. And I just like I I'm a faceless avatar. But I just wanted to tell you how like, helpful this was for me, like a person who's really engaged in it, but you would have no way of knowing. Oh, well, it's it's pretty pretty much almost Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, ghost. Yeah. So okay, so now you're looping. And you find looping to be valuable. It's working for Reese. Like, you're happy with it? Yeah, slide, you don't use loop anymore.

Tina 52:58
Well, we are currently looping Oh, okay. But we've, we've gone back and forth a little bit, we started using Omni pod five back in July of last summer, use it for two months. And then back to loop. Because there were things about Omnipod five that well, I should say about loop that I missed and things about Omnipod five that were bothering me, such as I was not used to the lack of being able to control you know, adjust things. And the also, I really like being able to Bolus from a watch, which is really nice. And, you know, several other things. But also, I did find that the time that I spent dealing with data, trying to trying to get settings right, trying to understand, um, drastically was was drastically reduced when I when we were using oh, five. And, and I I valued that highly. And so yeah, we went back to loop. And then in November, I believe no later it was in October, somebody asked me about sharing information about oh five so that he could get he's thinking about putting his daughter on it. And so I did and then I said hey, do you want us to hop back over on to oh five and go through it with you? And so I did that. And he's he's learned vast amount about it, you know, way beyond what what I started and he you know, he's helped me quite a bit and he's helped a lot of your listeners and, and learning learning to be less controlling with with the management that's a huge gift of Have Omnipod five, yeah. Um, and, and, and I just really appreciate that. And I took that when, when we transferred back to loop again and December, I took that back and I was trying to tinker things and loosen up things to make it so that we didn't need to be as precise. And I feel like I did a I did a really good job of that. Um, and part of part of the reason that we hopped back over. One of the reasons was that we were having trouble with lows on on the pot five, okay. And, and I was like, I just had I raised the target up, how to restart it, had I done some of those things. back then. I could have overcome that. But, but that's not what I did. So then, honestly, we made some videos about Omni pod five. And we we've had a lot of discussion about between four of us. And in in January, we had a ski trip coming up my family did and I said I'm gonna we're going to start oh, five again, and I'm going to start it at a very reduced basil, and see what happens. Put him on the ski slope. So we and you know, part of the draw is that the system runs magnificently. Without, you know, needing to have your phone near it or needing to have the controller near it. Right, that's, you know, I am. So we've used it for a total of six months. And in the time that we've used it, we've had we've had two times on it came disconnected. Yeah, twice. That's amazing. Right? And when Yeah, when I couldn't find numbers on my phone, I go look on, you know, on on the controller, and there would be numbers. Yeah. So it's astounding, and its reliability there. But yeah, we tried to try to back again in January and stayed on it for another three months. And honestly, I think we ran out of pot. So I switch back over to loot. And, um, and we've been doing that since April,

Scott Benner 57:22
where are you going to land, do you think we'll see that

Tina 57:25
that used to really, you know, eat at me, I was like, I need to make a choice. I've got one foot on the boat and one foot on the shore and I need to make a choice. But honestly, they do they both do such a good job. depending on you know, the time you want to put in the needs that you have. Um, I just, I'm just I feel grateful that we're able to use both. And, um, I also have no problem with tinkering with settings, just like, let's see how this works. It's not like, Oh, we're gonna make sure I do the exact right thing. And I keep him down and range. I don't like it when he's out of range. But I also know how to fix that. And I also know how to tell if we're heading in the wrong direction. You know, so but with I was I was actually quite tickled with oh five, and, and what I feel was my growth and understanding of it. So we started him with the low Basal when we went skiing, and that was a complete dumpster fire day. Because we lost Dexcom about an hour into skiing. And then when when we got a new one up and running, it was 200 high. And a lot of times it floats back down, you know and and lands for you nicely, and we weren't so we were afraid to calibrate it. And it was going from 200 High to 100 high and back and forth. So we just pretty much left him high the whole time. And then I was like, Okay, I need to get this thing's right on here. And because downstream, what I was seeing was that the Max Max insulin bar, you know, the little orange bar was appearing. And I was like, okay, the way to the way to change this is to restart it with higher basil. And so I so I did and it just solved the problem and everything settled out.

Scott Benner 59:33
So when you your first idea to outsmart it was we're going to be doing activity so I'll restart the system with a lower Basal rate, but that wasn't enough. And so you went back to the regular Basal rate that you should have used or you got more aggressive or was it somewhere in between?

Tina 59:52
What I did so so that the point was to keep him from going low. Make it so that it's more aggressive. But raise the so it'll hit harder, but raise the target so that he has plenty of time, plenty of space to if it hits too hard to land, because one of the issues with him is he goes from very sensitive to not very sensitive, and he flips. And is that something you hear about with boys?

Scott Benner 1:00:28
A lot. I mean, in my, in my heart, I would wonder if that wasn't like activity related.

Tina 1:00:35
We see the activity related. needs change. Yeah, definitely.

Scott Benner 1:00:41
What about around growth?

Tina 1:00:44
Yep. And he, he's been growing like a maniac lately. And that was not something that we saw. You know, we didn't see that for a long time. And then we started seeing that, right.

Scott Benner 1:00:56
Yeah, I mean, somewhere between growth activity. Eating like this is eating cycled differently. Does he eat heavier carbs sometimes than others? That kind of stuff?

Tina 1:01:09
It's pretty random. Yeah, that could be honestly, he, you know, he's he's a regular diet eater. Yeah. And we never even before. Before diabetes, we didn't do a lot of cake. And, you know, we did on special days, it wasn't like everyday, you're gonna cookie, that sort of thing. But he also, you know, he needs plenty of that. But there are times like, for example, he's swim. And he has swim team practice at 330 these days. So I want to get him his iob insulin on board reduced by the time it's time for that. So I don't feed him or I try not to have them eat high protein, high fat for lunch, I try to push that more towards breakfast on these days. And then at lunch, make it so it's more carby. So the insulin is out of his system. He doesn't have to have that next bullet. Right.

Scott Benner 1:02:10
Right. That's great. I mean, that's, I think, like most of like successful activity is not having insulin on board while you're during the activity. Like, you know, it's just it's it's the easiest way to avoid lows. I think that and yeah, you you start to move meals around a little bit. So that, you know, to that act of insulin isn't there during the day or whatever you're doing. What, what kind of sports does he play? Yeah,

Tina 1:02:36
he's a swimmer. Just just so he's he's a your realm. swimmer. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:40
So that's a lot of effort. And a lot of Yeah, excellent. Yeah. I would imagine you can get pretty low while you're serving. And then yeah,

Tina 1:02:48
and we've we've seen a man with more insulin on board, I like to send him one and with about half a unit, or less, and if it's old, that's great. Yeah, um, but we sent a man with a lot more and with it being fresher. But it's, and some days we find we can handle that better than others. But honestly, the fact that he that we can't see his numbers when he's in the pool, that's what usually sure makes it the hardest,

Scott Benner 1:03:19
because Bluetooth doesn't work through water.

Tina 1:03:22
Yeah, and actually, we did get, we put the the pod and the transmitter, the sensor next to each other a few times.

Scott Benner 1:03:32
And the rhombi. Pod five kept working. And it worked

Tina 1:03:35
in the pool. Yeah, so that's not reliable. Right. Right. So

Scott Benner 1:03:39
yeah, I don't know if people understand or listening that on the pod five, like if you thinking about loop, loop, the algorithm lives in an app on your phone. And so the brain is in the phone, and then it has to talk to the pod. The Omni pod five, which is the, you know, was the system made by the company, the algorithm actually lives on the circuit board inside of the pod. So if you don't need to be anywhere near your phone, because the sensor, the G right now, just G six is talking directly to the pod. So even if you don't see anything on a screen somewhere, it's still talking back and forth. And you're saying that even though he was in the water, you got some, some connectivity out of that. That's pretty cool.

Tina 1:04:20
Right? But it's, I've thought about actually making some kind of a bubble thing that where you can put them both together and put adhesive around it. And, you know, try and keep them in contact without water between them when he's in the pool. But you know,

Scott Benner 1:04:38
yeah, no, I think you got a little too much free time. You might want to find a hobby.

Tina 1:04:43
Yeah, right. I have free time.

Scott Benner 1:04:47
You gotta find a different hobbies what I'm saying. Yeah, so just I appreciate all this. Like we're coming up on an hour. I want to make sure we're not missing anything. Is there anything we are not having talked about so far that you wanted to make sure we did. Uh,

Tina 1:05:01
um, let's see. I think we're pretty good. i The point is, I guess between Omnipod five and loop is, I just find them both to be incredibly valuable. I find I'm, you know, part of the thing with Loop Two is since I am doing the service that I do via loop and learn it, it kind of benefits me to be in that realm, which I fumbled a little bit with my oh, five speak, I think. And that's probably because I'm not as in that realm right now. But, um, and as far as the loop Aman goes, Omnipod. Five is just, you know, I think it's a great, great thing. Yeah. And, you know, the, the Chief Medical Officer of insolate, has told us and told me personally more than once that if it weren't for the DIY community, insolate would be nowhere near where they are on the pod five wouldn't be what it is, you know, and she has said, Thank you, thank you so much. And so I feel like, you know, aside from all the other, you know, reasons to do it to keep pushing with DIY, even though there are some really good FDA approved options, I feel like, it's really great to keep pushing, because innovation is constant, there are some new things coming up in the loop realm that are going to be really helpful to people.

Scott Benner 1:06:38
Tell me about,

Tina 1:06:40
well, actually, there's a new there is a section, it's on the loop and learn website, it's not in the docs, because it's looping, learn specific, but it's a it's a development, little development section in the customizations section of the build, section. And there are three new things in there. There's, I get this, I get this wrong, but it's glucose. Um, let me get in my app, and I'll see glucose base partial application factor. And that allows and that one has been pushed to dev actually, to the dev branch, that one allows, when you're in auto Bolus, it starts ramping up the amount of starts at a lower amount of insulin Bolus. And then it ramps it up as your glucose rises, instead of it being a constant 40%. Or the constant 17%, that Temp Basal offer offers. There's that one. And then another one that's been pushed to Dev is the integral retrospective correction, which actually uses more information, looking back as to what you know what happened. And it will affect what it does from there with that interesting. And then there's also one that's called profiles, which I'm super excited about this one, it allows you to set up a different profile, or different profiles, just like right now, you probably have one profile set up on the phone. But you can duplicate it, and then change some things and then say this is to you know, this one is the main one, this is Tuesday, because Tuesday is you know, this activity that I need to change things for and and then you can just choose to your profile, when you need it nice instead of it's like it runs constantly, instead of setting on an override.

Scott Benner 1:08:46
Wow, that's very cool. I love that. Yeah. When do you think we see all that?

Tina 1:08:51
Well, the first thing that I told you about have just been pushed into dev, I think on the 23rd. And then I'm not sure about this one. But I think once people are trying to in dev a lot. There are a lot of people that are using these already. And when they see it be stable, and Dev and see that it's what they want. They'll push it to the main loop pool.

Scott Benner 1:09:13
So that'll happen in loop three. Yes, yeah.

Tina 1:09:17
Well, I say yes. There are things that happen that make a leap from Loop Two to loop three, and there will be something that makes a leap from loop three to loop four is probably not this, but I can't be sure. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:30
it's interesting. All right, cool. Well, yeah, way to figure out a way to timestamp your episode to get it moved up in the in the player Good job. Got yourself out way, way ahead. That's a that's very exciting news. I can see the value top my head for the different profiles 100% and the ramping up is a big deal and also being retrospective. I mean, all this is good information, right because you make I'm assuming the retrospective apart is, it's going to be able to say, hey, two hours ago, you made a pretty big Bolus. And you know, you said there were 80 carbs here, but we're still 200. So I can't just assume this is all going to be okay. I gotta be more aggressive. Is that the idea of that?

Tina 1:10:14
It is expected to be more? Oh, well, I haven't tested it yet. But those that those that have say, Yes, it does do a better job with that. And if your settings are right, it could be more aggressive than you want. And right now I have the the glucose. It's funny, I remembered the name is an acronym, based on another acronym, an acronym that I'm familiar with. And then they changed the acronym on me. So I stumble, but it's glucose based partial application factor. And that one we started using on Saturday or Friday. And I'm wanting to see what that does. Yeah. Before I apply the next one.

Scott Benner 1:11:02
Good. I can't wait. I love it. I have people who helped me, I am going to tell you I'm inept at loop, for the most part, like the back end stuff, like the setting it up and the, you know, that stuff. I'm, I don't know, my brain doesn't just work that way. But people are always very kind and helped me.

Tina 1:11:20
The kindness of a community, the people in the community is, I mean, I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen anything like it. And I've never had occasion and need anything. But truly, you know, people in this community are just astoundingly giving. And

Scott Benner 1:11:40
I agree. Yeah, I can't tell you I'm in that includes you. Oh, stop. I mean, listen, I deserve a little help I get the word out about loot pretty well. But I, it's just not like, I'm a good example of my brain doesn't wrap around it. If like if it wasn't for people, I mean, let's be more honest, if it wasn't for the podcast, then people would probably not be as interested in helping, but I bet you I still could find somebody to help. I'm just saying like my brain, like, as many times like, Mike's a great example. Mike's been helping me for a year, right with. And he tells me something and every time he tells me, I think you know what, I'm going to remember this so that I don't have to bother Mike again. And then it comes up and I'm I'm like in a blank panic. I'm like, I don't know how to do this. It's yeah, I don't know what's wrong with how my brain works. But it doesn't Well,

Tina 1:12:35
it's funny because I can you know, we, we have a new, a new way to build a loop that doesn't involve a Mac, we have a couple of new ways to do it. One of which Mike just built, you know, made and dropped on us one time, and that was the remote build amazing. But the the Xcode build on the Mac has been refined so much that it's it's gotten very easy to do. I've built, you know, I don't build super often. But I got so I can build it without help. And I can help other people do it. Which is awesome for me because I want to help people. Yeah, and, um, but the, the, the new browser build that you do on GitHub, which you can do on a PC. I look at I've actually read the documentation for that numerous times. I've edited it, I've you know, the I've made changes to it that that help it be more readable and usable and stuff. I can't do it. But like I I've tried, and I'm like it's just, there's something missing. One of

Scott Benner 1:13:45
the astounding things that's happened in the last year is that there was a like, the app needs to be rebuilt. And Arden was at school 700 miles from here. And Mike was like, yeah, we'll just do this, this this click here. That'll send her an email. Then she just clicks on the email and it just builds the app on her phone. And I'm like, Okay,

Tina 1:14:06
sounds magical. And Magic Mike. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:14:08
Like I'm like, that's, I'm sure he would really love that. And, and I'm like, you know it now I actually have an episode with Mike recorded. I'm gonna put yours out first and then I'm gonna put his out and I'm gonna call his Magic Mike. Tell him just to mess with him.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:26
And oh, get in trouble. Yeah, but

Scott Benner 1:14:29
I swear to you as it's happening and like, that's amazing. And then we went to do it again. And I just, I'm like, I know there's a way to do it. I don't remember it. And I always feel like he's looking at me like, you idiot. Like, oh, no, but he's Mike is so lovely. Yeah, I such

Tina 1:14:45
a kind just, he's such a kind con person in such a cool person. And, um, and patient and he you know, he has a degree in Computer stuff. And that's one of his gifts, you know? Yeah. Wonderful. I have I have another another guy who will remind you of Mike a bit who I'm going to send your way to, um, that I think you'll really like.

Scott Benner 1:15:14
Okay, wonderful. I love these conversations. So I appreciate this one to you today and the one that I had with Mike and God who like just have on recently that did such a good job of talking about moving from loop to Omni pod five. John FOSS on John. Yeah, well, his episodes terrific.

Tina 1:15:32
It is terrific. Yeah. He's, he's like a savant savant stage.

Scott Benner 1:15:37
I mean, the way he talks about it is just very clear to me. And yeah, that's a skill in itself, right? To be talking about something so technical and to make it feel accessible while you're talking about it's really, really a skill.

Tina 1:15:53
Yeah. And he, he's, um, his daughter is mostly managing on her own now. And that's what we're moving to we've, you know, Reese's 13, as I said, and so I'm not, you know, not pushing for him to be independent anytime real soon, but we're working towards that.

Scott Benner 1:16:16
Oh, I'll tell you right now that aren't artists, like, she's independent with it. You know, like, I'll help her sometimes. Or I'll send her a note. I'll be like, hey, you need to, like, you know, you gotta be more aggressive here. Whatever you did two hours ago didn't work or like that kind of stuff. But like she, she handles it. Like, even the other day. She's home now. And I walked into her room, and I was like, hey, you need to she's like, I got I got it. I'm like, okay. That's cool. That's really cool. That's great. So I bet you're

Tina 1:16:45
glad to have her home.

Scott Benner 1:16:46
I really am. I would like it if everybody came home, and we just pretended it was 10 years ago. We lived here forever, but I don't think that's gonna happen. So that's how I feel to get something. Okay. All right, Tina, thank you so much for doing this with me. I really appreciate it.

A huge thank you to Tina for coming on today and sharing her story with us and talking so much about loop and algorithms. I also want to thank cozy Earth for being a great sponsor this year, they're still with us because you guys are going to cozy earth.com and using the offer code juicebox when you make a purchase, so thanks to them. And thanks to you. Let's also thank the place where Arden gets her Dexcom and Omni pod supplies from us med go to us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your free benefits check today. And once you know everything's good to go, you can get your supplies the same way we do from us summit.

The after dark series from the Juicebox Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From smoking weed to drinking with type one perspectives from both male and females about having sex with diabetes. We talk about depression, self harm, eating disorders, mental illness, heroin addiction, use of psychedelics, living with bipolar, being a child of divorce, and honestly so much more. I can't list them all, but you can by going to juicebox podcast.com. Going to the top and clicking on after dark. There you'll see episode 807 called one thing after another episode 825 California sober. Other after dark episodes include unsupported survivor's guilt, space musician, dead frogs, these titles will make you say what is this about? And then when you listen, you'll think that was crazy. juicebox podcast.com Find the after dark series. It's fantastic. If you are a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes. The bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bold beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. This series is made up of 24 episodes, and it begins at episode 690. Get your podcasts or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this. To listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again, are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bold beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bold beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies in Episode 715 We talked about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule, Episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 735 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bold beginning series. We talk about community 772 journaling 776 technology and medical supplies. Episode 780 Treating low blood glucose episode 784 dealing with insurance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management. Check it out. It will change your life. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast