#1862 Type 3C in Texas
Tabby recounts surviving severe necrotizing pancreatitis and sepsis from misdiagnosed gallstones , leading to a partial pancreatectomy , Type 3c diabetes management , and an unexpected miracle pregnancy.
Key Takeaways
- Understanding Type 3c Diabetes Etiology: Unlike Type 1 (autoimmune) or Type 2 (insulin resistance), Type 3c diabetes arises from structural damage, injury, or partial/full surgical resection of the pancreas, frequently precipitated by severe medical crises like necrotizing pancreatitis[cite: 2176, 2388, 2486, 2526].
- Recognizing Atypical Postpartum Gallbladder Symptoms: Postpartum gallbladder complications can manifest as severe referred pain between the shoulder blades rather than standard abdominal distress, occasionally leading clinicians to misattribute the issue to residual epidural back pain[cite: 2228, 2236, 2244].
- The Critical Importance of Restested Imaging: Severe medical oversight can occur when clinical teams delay follow-up CT scans or assume a patient's physical decline is due to a psychological lack of motivation rather than recognizing underlying necrotizing organ failure and septic shock[cite: 2271, 2324, 2388, 2394, 2397].
- Mandatory Prescription Digestive Enzyme Therapy: Losing significant pancreatic tissue impairs both endocrine and exocrine functions; individuals who undergo major pancreatectomies must take prescribed digestive enzymes with all food to properly process nutrients and prevent chronic abdominal distress[cite: 2486, 2705, 2710, 2714, 2720].
- Post-Splenectomy Biomarker Tracking: Undergoing a simultaneous splenectomy can disrupt baseline nutritional profiles, necessitating diligent monitoring for standard deficiencies like severely low ferritin levels (e.g., a level of 11) to coordinate timely iron infusions or clinical supplementation[cite: 2487, 2768, 2769, 2770, 2771].
Resources Mentioned
- Juicebox Podcast Website: juiceboxpodcast.com
- Juicebox Podcast Search Directory (JBFAQ): juiceboxpodcast.com/jbfaq
- Eversense 365 CGM: eversensecgm.com/juicebox
- Tandem Diabetes Care (Tandem Mobi Pump): tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox
- Touched by Type One Advocacy Organization: touchedbytype1.org
- Wrong Way Recording Production Services: wrongwayrecording.com
Introduction and Overview of Type 3c Diabetes
Scott BennerFriends, we're all back together for the next episode of the Juice Box podcast. Welcome.
TabbyHey. I'm Tabby, and I have type three c diabetes.
Scott BennerIf you're new to type one diabetes, begin with the bold beginnings series from the podcast. Don't take my word for it. Listen to what reviewers have said. Bold beginnings is the best first step. I learned more in those episodes than anywhere else.
Scott BennerThis is when everything finally clicked. People say it takes the stress out of the early days and replaces it with clarity. They tell me this should come with the diagnosis packet that I got at the hospital. And after they listen, they recommend it to everyone who's struggling. It's straightforward, practical, and easy to listen to.
Scott BennerBold Beginnings gives you the basics in a way that actually makes sense. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast private Facebook group. Juice Box Podcast, type one diabetes. But everybody is welcome. Type one, type two, gestational, loved ones, it doesn't matter to me.
Scott BennerIf you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort, or community, check out Juice Box podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. I'd like to thank the Eversense three sixty five for sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and not every fourteen days, you want the Eversense CGM. Eversensecgm.com/juicebox.
Scott BennerOne year, one CGM. Today's episode is also sponsored by the Tandem Mobi system with Control IQ plus technology. If you are looking for the only system with auto bolus, multiple wear options, and full control from your personal iPhone, you're looking for Tandem's newest pump and algorithm. Use my link to support the podcast, tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. Check it out.
Scott BennerThe podcast is also sponsored today by Touched by Type One. Please take a moment to learn more about them at touchedbytype1.org on Facebook and Instagram. Touchedbytype1.org. Check out their many programs, their annual conference, awareness campaign, their d box program, dancing for diabetes. They have a dance program for local kids, a golf night, and so much more. Touchedbytype1.org. You're looking to help or you wanna see people helping people with typeone, you want touchedbytype1.org.
TabbyHey. I'm Tabby, and I have type three c diabetes. I've had that I've been diagnosed since November 2025 after a rare medical event occurred in June 2023.
Scott BennerYou had a rare medical event?
TabbyYes.
Scott BennerAlright. We'll figure that out. Prior to this well, how old are you now?
TabbyI am 28.
Scott BennerOkay. Prior to this rare event, how had your health been throughout your life?
A Pregnancy Loss and Cryptic Gallbladder Symptoms
TabbyPerfecty normal.
Scott BennerYeah. Nothing remarkable happened?
TabbyNo. I was battling a little bit of infertility due to some PCOS, but otherwise, very healthy. No concerns. No doctors, really.
Scott BennerWhat, weapons did you use to battle infertility?
TabbyWe used medicated cycles. So and then, ultimately, we got pregnant using IUI.
Scott BennerWhat's that?
TabbyIntrauterine insemination. Okay. So it's one step before IVF.
Scott BennerDo you ever think of trying GLPs?
TabbyI did, but it was not recommended by my medical team for some reason. And now I'm not able to because of my pancreas.
Scott BennerOh, wow. Yeah. You but you know what I'm talking about. Right? That that that group of ladies online who all have PCOS and seem to get pregnant after using a GLP medication?
TabbyYes. There there definitely have been a lot of success stories linked to those.
Scott BennerYeah. Oh, you slowed down as if you this was something you were hoping for, but your medical team didn't like. Did it was it disappointing when that turned out that way?
TabbyA little bit, but it all worked out the way that it was supposed to.
Scott BennerYeah. Cool. Got a baby out of it?
TabbyYes. I did.
Scott BennerWhat's that kid's name?
TabbyHis name is Forrest.
Scott BennerOh, that's awesome. How old is he?
TabbyHe is fifth 14.
Scott Benner14. Oh, wow. What a time. I like that time. People say they like them a little bigger so they can move around, but I think it's fun when they're like a little football with a personality in a face.
TabbyYes. This is my perfect this is my favorite age.
Scott BennerYeah. Well, they're all gonna be until they it's a boy. Right until whenever the hormones kick in. You'll stop you'll stop liking it as much around then, whatever that is. Don't worry. It wears off when they're, like, in their mid twenties. So what rare medical event happened? I guess we we can't stretch this out. Like, what happened to you?
TabbySo in 2023, I was pregnant with our first son after a successful medicated cycle and IUI through the fertility clinic. At twenty weeks, I went into labor. I did not know that I was in labor because I didn't know that you could go into labor at twenty weeks, but you can. I had that baby, and we lost him because he was, unfortunately, just a little smaller than what the hospital had the capabilities to to be able to to work with in the NICU.
Scott BennerRight.
TabbyAfter that, I had a very odd hormonal fluctuation through postpartum from that that caused my gallbladder to fill with gallstones. That does happen after pregnancy for some women, and a lot of times it gets caught pretty quick, and they can have a quick surgery to get their gallbladder removed, and then they're on their way. That is not what happened in my case. My gallbladder was giving me trouble for about a month. I had been to the ER three different times, and it was never identified that that I had any gallstones.
Scott BennerWhen you say the the gallbladder fills with stones, like, how long does that process take?
TabbyIt can kind of depend on the individual, but in my case, they suspected that it happened in about two weeks. Delivery.
Scott BennerOh my gosh. No kidding.
TabbyYes.
Scott BennerWhat's that what's that feel like while it's happening? Are you aware that it's happening?
TabbySo I did not know what was happening. I was having extreme sharp pain in the center of my shoulder blades in my back, which is part of the reason that it wasn't identified because they look for abdominal pain. Mhmm. And so I would have these events randomly in the middle of the night where I would just be in excruciating pain so much so that we would end up having to go to the ER. Yeah. And and looking back on it, there was a component there of it was related the severe episodes of pain were related to what I was eating or what I was drinking. Mhmm. And so I would eat something that would flare it up, and then I'd have that pain. But I didn't know that that's what was happening because it was so random oh at the time.
Scott BennerKind of a referred pain from maybe, like, a fat content of something or something like that.
TabbyRight.
Scott BennerYeah. Okay.
Systemic Misdiagnosis and the Transfer Crisis
TabbySo I was going through with that. We were going in and out of ERs. Every time I would go in, they would kinda send me back to postpartum because I was still within that six week window, and they would check everything out. And, ultimately, it was decided that it was most likely some sort of residual back pain from receiving an epidural. I did not know what is normal after receiving an epidural because that was my first time ever delivering. And so I was like, okay. Well, this is just part of it. It'll go away soon, and we'll go from there.
Scott BennerYeah.
TabbyAnd we just kind of were dealing with the pain episodes at home after that, and things were smooth sailing. About six weeks postpartum, I was working from home on my computer, and I got very sick very fast and had very excruciating pain everywhere, not just my back. My abdomen, my my entire body was just out of nowhere, something was not right. Mhmm. I ended up having to be ambulanced from my home to the nearest available trauma medical center. The one that I was taken to, they reviewed everything, and they determined that I had the gallstones and that my gallbladder had actually ruptured. And those stones essentially got stuck in all of the ducts in my body. Normally, that happens, they pass on their own in about twenty four hours, and you're kind of good to go after that, and then you start the healing process. One of the ducts that my gallstones were stuck in was my pancreatic duct.
TabbyThat does cause pancreatitis. And so they diagnosed me with pancreatitis. They had the gallstone there. They basically were like, this gallstone's gonna pass in a couple days. The pancreatitis will heal in a couple days. It'll probably take four to six days in the hospital, but then you should be kinda back to normal on your way back home. You may have to be on a little bit of a lower scale diet for a little bit and build your way back up, but you should be good to go in a couple days.
Scott BennerOkay. So it kinda sucks, but you have a plan that seems doable.
TabbyRight.
Scott BennerYeah. Okay.
TabbyThat is not what happened.
Scott BennerI was gonna say. They were wrong about that. Hey. By the way, in in the in that time frame, how many people have been right about what they told you in the hospital?
TabbyNone.
Scott BennerOkay. There you go. That's fine. Unfortunately.
Scott BennerNo. It's fine. Everything's fine. Don't worry.
TabbyThey were correct that I had pancreatitis.
Scott BennerOh, there you go. Look.
TabbyThey did get that right. So so, yeah, so the three to four days goes by, and I am substantially worse. Like, can hardly move, have developed pneumonia. Pain is so I can't even describe the pain that pancreatitis causes.
Scott BennerMhmm.
TabbyWe're going back and forth with the medical team quite a bit because I want them to do some more testing and and figure out why I'm getting worse and not getting better. I guess there were a few of my blood markers that were going trending back towards normal. So they were under the impression that it just needed more time and that we didn't really need to do anything. We just kinda needed to give it a minute to let the rest of them catch up. I had an instant with with that medical team where they believed and they voiced this opinion that I was not getting better because I didn't want to get better. They noted that I wasn't getting out of bed. I wasn't trying to walk up and down the halls to help with my respiratory. I wasn't doing all these things. So they ordered PT to come and take me and walk me up and down the halls multiple times a day. I ended up on oxygen through that because I couldn't I literally physically couldn't walk up and down the halls. And finally, we got to a point at about day eight of hospitalization where I'm still very bad off and very much struggling to breathe and in the severe amounts of pain where we went back and forth, and we were trying to get the doctor to to just run another scan and see if they see anything that might look different from when we first came in. We went back and forth with him for a total of five days. He was insistent that I was fine and that they were ready to discharge me, but I clearly wasn't ready to go home. So they wanted us to pick a long term care facility for me to go to until I could transition back home. My husband and I were very hesitant to do that. We we did look at them. We found one that worked with our insurance, and we we basically decided that we were gonna push and push and push to get another scan, but that, ultimately, if we had to go do this long term care thing that that we would. We are prepared to do that.
Scott BennerAt this point, are you pretty aware that you're not being helped?
TabbyYes.
Scott BennerYou are. You start you they leave the room and you and your husband are looking at each other and going, these people don't know what the hell they're talking about. Right?
TabbyYes.
Scott BennerOkay.
TabbySo so just for reference of, like, how down I was, I could not even physically check my phone for nine days.
Scott BennerDidn't have the energy to pick it up, look at it, the that's No. That's how beat you are. Beat up.
TabbyAnd I was out of it, and I just, like, couldn't
Scott BennerYeah.
TabbyI just was not functioning, and I just did not have the energy to even mess with it, which for me is saying a lot because I'm always on my phone. Everybody knows that.
Scott BennerYou're like, listen. I'm at the right age. They got me with that phone. Okay? I'm just gonna say, let's just admit to that right now. Yeah. I'd love to know more about those I I don't wanna stop your story, but I do wanna understand those conversations alone with your husband, your new baby. Right? And you're just
TabbyWell, so I didn't have baby at this point.
Scott BennerOh, this was after the first. Excuse me. So the Yeah. So it's the two of you. Yeah. And you are clearly degrading, and they're going, hey. It's time to go home. What do you do there? How do you get to some sort of an answer, or do you not?
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TabbyMy husband was a a very good advocate for me when I wasn't really able to be one for myself. He wasn't really taking that as a an answer.
Scott BennerMhmm.
TabbyHe kind of came to the conclusion that we'll essentially kind of back end our way into forcing them to get a scan.
Scott BennerYeah. Because they're gonna see a pocket full of stones when they look. Right?
TabbyWell, so at this point, they'd already identified the stones and the pancreatitis. We just wanted them to see if there was something more going on because the pancreatitis should have already resolved itself.
Scott BennerI see. I'm sorry.
TabbyYeah. So so my husband says, you know, we've got this long term care facility. We found the one that we're okay with using. It works with our insurance. Let's just sit him down one more time, explain our concerns, tell him we want another scan. If he wants to fight it, he said, we're just basically gonna tell him, we'll go to long term care today if you run another scan.
Scott BennerOkay. And You're like a squatter. You're like, listen. If you give me one more meal, I'll get out of here. I promise.
TabbyYep. Yeah. Okay. So we did, and that is that is how we got our scan. And they took me back for that CT scan. I got back to my room, and my husband and I were talking. And I just told him, I said, you know, something is is really not right. And I said, I don't know what it is. I don't know what they're gonna come back with. I said, but this is something's not right. 20 later, there were about three doctors that walked in, none of which were the medical team that I had had. I never saw that doctor again.
Scott BennerYeah.
TabbyAnd one of them stepped forward. Literally, all he said to us was, you're getting significantly worse for transferring you to a higher level of care, and then they walked out. They didn't give us a chance to ask what was going on. They didn't give us a chance to understand anything. They did gave no explanations. All they said was, you're getting significantly worse. We're transferring you to a higher level of care.
Scott BennerWithin that hospital or into a different building?
TabbyTo a different hospital system. Yeah. And my first thought was, I'm dying. Like, why else would they have said it like that and not given any context or told us what was going on and came in so quick and left so quick? So I was paranoid that I was dying.
Scott BennerYeah. No. I mean, that or like unless you have enough wherewithal to go, these idiots figured out that they can't do this. So they're gonna move me somewhere else, which is hopefully what happened. And I like that they gave you the oopsie switcheroo with the doctors like the oh, yeah. Yeah. The guy who's been, you know, dragging you over the coals for days and days and days, like, we we're not gonna let you talk to him anymore. We'll go get somebody else now. Nice. Yeah.
TabbyYeah. So they did that, and they went out, and it was hours before we got an update on anything. And even then, it was because a nurse finally spoke up and told me when she came in the room to give me medicine for pain. My husband had been going out to the nurse's desk to ask, speaking to the doctors. Nobody would give us any information on where they were transferring us, why they were transferring us. All we knew is that they were needing to send us to a bigger hospital, and they were trying to figure that out. I was very confused by that because I know that you typically in those emergent type situations, it doesn't take ten hours for them to finally get the approval to transfer you to a trauma center. Mhmm. And so I was very confused about that. We we kept asking. We kept begging. Nobody would tell us anything. We both were just, like, terrified at this point. And then we're also just sitting in the room basically speculating like, great. Well, now I'm getting significantly worse, and I'm just sitting in this room getting worse.
Scott BennerAnd they haven't shown any propensity to rush so far? No. Am I gonna sit here for five more days getting worse or five more minutes or, like, that feeling. Right?
TabbyYeah. And they didn't, like, change any of my meds. They didn't, like so it wasn't like they acted like they were treating it until I got transferred. It was literally just like, okay. You're doing pretty bad. We're gonna move you. Okay. Bye. That was what we knew for the next ten hours.
Scott BennerTen hours?
TabbyYes. Jeez. A nurse came to give me my pain medicine, and I finally just kinda broke down and told her. I said, you know, I just I just need to know what is wrong with me. I was like, like, I don't I don't understand why they didn't tell me. I don't understand why we haven't moved yet. I don't understand. I've told you four times I wanna go to Medical City at this location because that's the hospital that I know. That's the hospital that I trust. That's where some of my my other medical team is already here. I don't understand why it's this hard. Mhmm. She was like, I know. And she was kinda hesitant. And the way she said it, I knew that she knew something. And so I called her on it. I said, you know something. And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, you're not telling me something, and I want to know what it is. Right. And she finally said that they had been trying for hours to get me transferred to another hospital, but that two of the three major medical centers in the Dallas area had turned down the case because they were not willing to assume responsibility. And that if the third one also turned it down, then they were going to have to helicopter flight me to Houston.
Necrotizing Pancreatitis and Extensive Resection Surgery
Scott BennerReally? So nobody had the balls to help you at this point? So you you were at the place
TabbyThe Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the places didn't have the knowledge to help you. The rest of them didn't have the nerve to help you.
TabbyYeah.
Scott BennerOh my gosh. So now she's telling you that, and you're thinking, I'm done. Right?
TabbyYeah.
Scott BennerOkay. Yeah. Pretty much. So, luckily, the third hospital did accept the case. They did pull me over there. I got moved at, like, ten, 11:00 at night. They moved me over, like, right during the time frame that I was supposed to get the pain medicine. So I was in excruciating pain. They they couldn't do anything at the new hospital as far as treatment goes until they had all the scans and the records and everything to see exactly what they were dealing with. And so it was probably another two to three hours at that first hospital before they could even give me any kind of medicine to help at all Jeez. because they wanted the trauma team and the surgical team
Scott BennerTo see you the way you were, not all
Tabbyto get exactly where it was. Yeah. And so they did. They came in. I wanna say it was, like, one or 02:00 in the morning, and the lead trauma surgeon on the case came in. And and she she had a bunch of residents and interns and all kinds of stuff with her, which they did throughout my hospital stay, end up kind of using it as a teaching case. I saw all kinds of medical students.
Scott BennerAnd Awesome. You're like, at least my death is gonna help somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus.
TabbyAnd so she she sat us down, and she very calmly, but very direct. And I I mean, I had told her, you know, I said I want to know exactly what is going on. I don't want you to sugarcoat it. I don't like, at this point, I just need to know exactly what is happening.
Scott BennerSure. Sure.
TabbySo she did. She sat us down, and she told us that for the last thirteen days in that hospital, I actually had necrotizing pancreatitis, not pancreatitis. My pancreas was actively dying for thirteen days.
Scott BennerOh, how are they able to figure that out so quickly when nobody else could?
TabbyThey had the scans that they had finally taken that thirteenth day. Hey. At the end of this story, does it end with your name being on the side of the hospital now? What's going on exactly with that?
TabbyI wish.
Scott BennerOkay. Jeez. Alright. So now you have that. That by the way, necrotizing sounds scary.
TabbySo I was in active organ failure. Blood flow was cut off from my pancreas due to that gallstone still being stuck in there. They never confirmed that it passed, and it didn't. So it just had been shutting everything off in there. I was in severe sepsis. I had over a liter of abdominal fluid on my pancreatic area, and I basically was in septic shock at that point.
Scott BennerOh my god.
TabbyNormally, what they would do in that case is they would take you into the OR, and they would drain that fluid off. And they would start some pretty strong antibiotics, do a small procedure endoscopically that would remove at least the major dead portions of the organ just to try and get it to a point to where the part that is still functioning can function fully.
Scott BennerMhmm.
TabbyShe basically told us all of that information, and then she said, you know, I would love to take you in right now and do that. And she said, but if I take you into the OR right now, you're not gonna make it out. Oh. It ended up taking them about three weeks to stabilize me enough to take me back for a procedure. They took me back for about fifteen minutes and drained off the fluid and did a little bit of pulling the dead pancreas and brought me back out. And then I healed for another one to two weeks, went back in for ten to fifteen minutes so they could pull a little bit more of the dead pancreas out. That repeated for quite a while. I ended up in the hospital a total of fifty eight days.
Scott BennerI wish you could see my face right now. I'm mortified, and this didn't happen to me.
TabbyYeah.
Scott BennerFifty eight days. Same and but I imagine you popped out on day 59. You're right back to your life. Right? No problems. You're really not suing anybody?
TabbyI probably should have, truthfully. I mean right? By the time proponent of it, but, like, this seems like
TabbyThat was kind of my thing is I was very adamant that, like, well, they made a mistake. I don't wanna ruin the doctor's life. I don't wanna make a big deal out of it. And at that point, we were still kind of being told that things should go relatively back to normal. I mean, there were gonna be a few things that I was gonna struggle with long term, but it shouldn't have been anything major.
Scott BennerOh, okay.
TabbyAnd so I I left it, and I convinced myself that it was gonna get better. It was gonna get better. And every time something horrible would happen, I would just tell myself, well, it's gonna get better. And then finally, by the time I realized that my life is completely different and completely altered and my health is to a detriment because of it. It was too late because you only have two years from the day that the medical event starts in the hospital in order to
Scott BennerI see. So it did occur to you at some point to look at look into that.
TabbyIt did. It was just too late. Yes. Otherwise. Wow. Okay. I'm sorry. So they nursed you to enough health to do the surgery? Yeah. What all does that surgery entail?
TabbySo, basically, they just would go in and scrape out a small portion of the dead pancreas and any fluid collections that built up from the sepsis.
Scott BennerSo some of the pancreas is still operating?
TabbyYes.
Scott BennerOkay. Alright. Yep. That's all. We'll just do that. Just a little scrape, scrape it. But by the way, what caused all this though?
TabbySo that that gallstone that was stuck in the pancreatic duct, it never passed.
Scott BennerThat's the one thing? Yep. Jeez. That's some bad luck. I'm not gonna lie to you. Honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My goodness. Terrible. Okay. So procedure's over. They send you home. What's the recovery like?
TabbyYeah. So it's day 59. I'm home. We're told kind of maintain my softer food and more so liquids, like smoothies and protein shakes and things like that for a couple weeks, and then I could build back up to to regular food. And and slowly but surely, it should should heal, and I should start feeling better, and I should be a lot stronger. And, I mean, I did go home on a lot of different medications to help with various things that were going on in my body just from the procedures and the sepsis and antibiotics and all of the things. So we got home, and things were actually really good for a little over a month. I didn't have any issues. We we actually ended up taking a trip to Chicago. My husband and I did just because we had flight miles. And between the the incident with with our first son and then immediately going into this and fighting for my life and then spending the two months in the hospital, it just kinda felt like we needed a break.
Scott BennerYeah. I'm going on vacation for a while if I'm you.
TabbyWe took a little just a little weekend trip because we were scared of my health and everything. We popped up Chicago, and everything was great.
Scott BennerYou picked Chicago? Yeah. And then we came back. And within a couple weeks, I ended up back in the hospital with severe pancreas pain. And, essentially, I was having another flare of pancreatitis. And they were kinda like, well, that's not completely uncommon, but it's also not something that we anticipated. So I had, like, a week hospital stay. I was stuck there. I had to go back to liquid diet, kinda start that process back up again. Ended up getting to go home, was doing good for a little bit, and then that just kind of kept happening for a couple months.
Scott BennerOh, like, you ended up in the hospital multiple times from that?
TabbyYes. Okay. Yep. So at that point, they determined that I had chronic pancreatitis and or they suspected that I had chronic pancreatitis. And in October, they ended up going ahead and and finally removing my gallbladder. They didn't wanna perform that big of a surgery before because I was still kinda septic, and there was just concern with with going into that big of a procedure. Mhmm. So we finally got that done October 2023. Very shortly after that, I had another hospital stay due to just nausea, vomiting, pain, all the things. They finally looked at everything. They determined that it would be best if we if I went on pancreatic rest for a minimum of eight weeks. Did a surgical procedure to put in a g tube. I used a feeding tube with only the formula and the feeding tube. It ended up being many weeks total through the end of the year, essentially. And the hope was that since we gave my body that nine weeks to to really heal with no food being processed through the pancreas, through anything, it was just that g tube formula Mhmm that was, like, what my body needed to kinda kick start and and get going. Well, I got that g tube removed on my birthday of 2024. Things just did not get better. I kept having those hospital stays. Each stent was, like, a week at a time. It was a minimum of one a month, if not more. It was very back and forth. So we finally went to my medical team in March 2024. It was very March 2024
Scott BennerMhmm.
Tabbyand told them that it was time for us to figure out what my options were to kinda fix this problem. To stop work. Mentioned
Scott BennerThe repetitiveness of what was happening.
TabbyYes. Yeah. And they had mentioned, like, possible larger procedure to kinda help with things. They said there were a few different things that we could could do and try, and we had tried all the kinda little things. And so we knew that there were some big things that you could try, but we hadn't made it to that point yet. Mhmm. And so we did officially get to that point, my husband and I did, where we were like, okay. This is like, we wanna at least know what the bigger options are. So we got a referral to an incredible surgeon at Baylor University Medical Center, Dallas. We ended up getting to speak with kind of the head of transplants there. We sat in his office, and we did a consultation. He had already looked at all my medical records, so he was kinda familiar with what was going on. My GI surgeon had kinda briefed him on how things had gone the last ten months. We sit in his office for our surgical consultation. He goes over the options, talks about partial pancreas removal, full pancreas removal, what those would look like, where he thinks we're at, what he thinks he could do. We are sitting there with him, and and I asked him. I said, you know, what do you feel is your kind of recommendation on this? I know you're saying that that you think you could could do it this way or could do it that way, and these are the the repercussions of both. But but what would you, as a surgeon
Scott BennerYeah.
Tabbyand
Scott BennerTell me what to do.
TabbyAnd he looked at us, and he said, you know, I can't make this decision for you. And he said, but what I will tell you is that I have a lot of people come and consult with me, some people from all over the world. And he said, I tell a lot of them I would not do surgery on you. You don't need this big of a life change based on what's going on. Mhmm. He said, I'm telling you, I would do this surgery next month.
Scott BennerOh, good news. More good news. Jesus. And Yeah. That's sobering. Yeah. Yeah.
TabbyAnd he did. He did that surgery. I ended up I mean, technically, that that appointment was March, and then I got scheduled for May procedure. I went in, and I had to have a major abdominal abdominal surgery. I have a scar that goes from the middle of my breastbone down to below my belly button. And they had to take out about sixty percent of my pancreas. They took out my entire spleen, and then they ended up also having to take about fifteen percent of my stomach because it was all messed up in there with with dead and necrotic tissue.
Scott BennerOh my gosh. No more McDonald's either. Right? You can't do with Reese anymore. Yeah. It's okay. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. And still you didn't sue anybody?
TabbyNo. I gotta get you for a neighbor. You seem awesome. You're in Texas. Is that right?
TabbyYes.
Scott BennerWhereabouts in Texas do I not wanna move? Can you put a finger on the map for me?
TabbyI could tell you from a medical standpoint, I would not move to Mesquite, Texas. Okay.
Scott BennerThank you. That's what I was wondering. As a person who's been, like, nudging his wife about moving south, and one of the things she says to me is, like, we're make sure we're near a good hospital. I was like, yeah. Sure. Because I'm, like, trying to get a little more rural.
TabbyI've had great experiences with the ones closer to Downtown Dallas.
Scott BennerOkay. So if I was thinking Tennessee, like, stay closer to Nashville. Is that what you're saying to me? Think Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. My goodness. Oh, my. My. My. My. Hey. She looks really sick. What do you think we should do? I don't know. Maybe it'll stop. Let's wait nine or ten days and just see if it goes away first. No. It's not going away. What do you wanna do? We'll give her to somebody else. They don't want her. Oh, no. We waited too long. They would've killed you if you didn't leave there, by the way.
TabbyOh, yeah. Well, and fun fact, I actually whenever I did look at the possibility of talking to a lawyer, I actually found a case that also happened in Dallas where a man was in the exact same situation as me, and he did end up going to long term care instead of kind of pushing back.
Scott BennerEnded up being real long term?
TabbyTwo weeks later, he died.
Scott BennerYeah. And his family did sue.
Scott BennerI would imagine. My goodness gracious. I mean, listen. It's it's a tough job being a doctor, but, like, you know, Google it if you can't figure it out. Don't just tell me, I don't know. We'll wait another day. We'll see what happens. We'll wait. We'll wait. We'll wait. It's gonna be fine. Jeez. And then as you're clearly degrading, nobody's doing anything. I mean, really, it sounded like they were all just dumbfounded. You know? Yeah. Yeah. That's gotta be incredible for too because I truly was struggling so much physically
TabbyYeah. And just, like, mentally being able to kinda stay in and out of it. Whenever he came and told me that I wasn't getting better because I didn't want to get better or because I wasn't walking up and down the halls and trying to
Scott BennerHe told you you need to go for a walk.
TabbyI was like, I felt so defeated. And then he's getting
Scott BennerI'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm laughing. I'm so sorry. What a fuck. Honestly.
TabbyAnd he scheduled that PT, and I'm, like, trying to walk up and down this hall. And I feel like a failure the whole time I'm doing it because I can barely make it three doors down. And looking back, I'm like, this guy, that's literally insane what happened.
Scott BennerOh, no. No. No. No. No. No. You you TP his, his house, like, at Halloween, though. Right?
TabbyIf I knew where it was.
Scott BennerI mean, you know, something something harmless, but I've you know, maybe an egg or two on a window. I don't know. My goodness. Okay. I'm so sorry. I lost track of your thing. They they took out all your business and then what happened?
TabbyYeah. So he told us prior to that surgery that there was about a fifty percent chance that I would develop type three c diabetes in the next five years. So some people do, some people don't. It just really depends on how much of your pancreas is still functioning and how well it's working and and all of those different things that goes by percentage of pancreas left and other health factors and all the things. Okay. So, essentially, with my risk factors, there was about a fifty percent chance that I would develop type three c in the next five years.
Scott BennerI mean, the way things are going, I would have just assumed it was gonna happen if I was you. But yeah. Yeah. I would also think a tree is about to fall on me almost constantly. Well,
A Miracle Pregnancy and Managing Type 3c Day-to-Day
Tabbyso then the the funny thing is after that surgery, I actually did feel so much better.
Scott BennerYeah. I bet.
TabbyI really did. That summer, I went on two cruises with family, and it I was tired, and my stamina was very low just by nature of everything that had happened.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah. But I was truthfully, genuinely doing better and feeling better. Mhmm. Recovery time for that surgery was supposed to be eight to twelve weeks. Apparently, what we learned at about the eight to nine week mark in recovery is that when they did surgery to remove everything, they also apparently somehow magically sprinkled some fairy dust in there and cured my infertility.
Scott BennerHey. Well, it's something good. Oh, you got pregnant before you should have.
TabbyBecause I ended up pregnant. Yes. Ended up pregnant. I you know how it happens though. Right? It's just that Yes. yeah. You don't just end
Scott Bennerup pregnant.
TabbyWe are aware. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We know exactly when it happens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would I would imagine.
TabbySo yes. I'm nine weeks post major abdominal surgery, already have a completely wrecked abdomen that is nothing but scar tissue.
Scott BennerYeah.
TabbyAnd I felt very off. And because I was on a lot of different medications from healing from the procedures and from the surgery and all of the different things. I just was kind of I don't even know why I took a pregnancy test, but I in my head, I was just like, you know what? Something doesn't feel right. And if I am pregnant, I don't need I don't wanna take all this medicine. Like,
Scott BennerOh, so let me just check real quick. Yeah. But that's not gonna be it. It's probably what you're thinking. Right? Like, this won't be it.
TabbyAnd so it's just like we just we're kinda like, okay. I didn't think much of it. I'm working on my computer that day. Whatever. Everything's fine. And I go back to the bathroom to go to restroom again, and I saw it on the counter, and I was like, what?
Scott BennerI guess if you leave it sit here too long, it shows positive. Yeah. And so
Tabbyand and they even say, like, when you've gone through infertility and you've you've been a little line crazy as we call it, you're, like, trained to look for those. And then everybody says, like, if it's been longer than this time, you can't trust it. It could be inaccurate, whatever. So that's what I told myself. I was like, well, this has been sitting here for three hours. Truly.
Scott BennerI love that you took it and didn't think it was a possibility so much so that you never went back to look at it again. Yeah. Yeah.
TabbySo I was like, there's no way. So then I was like, oh, well, I'll just take a digital test because that'll really tell me. Like, fifteen seconds later, it popped up and said pregnant. And I was like, oh, okay.
Scott BennerWhat is what was your internal reaction? Like because I think I would have gone with you have to be kidding me. What got you?
TabbyIt was, I mean, that and I was genuinely terrified at that moment. Oh. Because I was like, this
Scott BennerYou got robbed of being happy too when that happened. You know what I mean?
TabbyExactly.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah.
TabbyYeah. And it was just one of those things where, like, I just felt like in my head immediately, I was like, okay. I couldn't even fully sustain the first pregnancy. And now I've my body's been through all this, and I'm post this major surgery. And now I'm pregnant. Like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to to sustain this pregnancy.
Scott BennerYeah. How does it feel when that scar stretches too? Itchy?
TabbyOh, yeah. Yeah. Itchy. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, god. So now you tell me you didn't have to consider terminating the pregnancy. You've been trying your okay. Okay. Good. I don't want you having to go on through that.
TabbyMy medical team, my OB is incredible. She was very good from the very start of it. She was my same OB with the first pregnancy, so she knew what had already happened. She knew what I was going through medically, and she was very quick to I mean, she was honest with me, she told me, like, this is not gonna be easy. It's gonna be a very hard pregnancy, and there's gonna be a lot of things that we're gonna we're gonna check from a high risk perspective, and we're putting you into basically the highest risk category. So I was treated almost as if I was someone who was pregnant with, like, twins or triplets. Yeah. There was so much going on. And so she actually because she was actually through a different hospital than all my pancreas had been through. Mhmm.
TabbyAnd so she actually got with my entire medical team at the hospital with my pancreas and had the GI teams there send all of my records and their notes and just general profile summary of health to the GI team at the hospital that she was at in case I ever had to be admitted so that there was a pain like, a GI team on standby that knew my case and was familiar with it that she could pull in to help. She coordinated everything from my pain management team to my GI to everyone. All the specialists, she made sure that every doctor I had at Baylor University Medical Center, she made sure that there was a doctor of the same specialty and level of confidence that understood my case at her facility in the event that I ended up having to be impatient throughout my pregnancy.
Scott BennerIt makes a big difference to be with somebody who understands what to do, doesn't it?
TabbyYes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She was she was phenomenal. And so she did and she dealt with me the whole pregnancy. I mean, I was I was terrified the whole time. I kept calling the OB office. It's like, you know, I think something's wrong. I think this doesn't feel right. And she'd bring me in, and they do an ultrasound, and they check. And most of the time, it was just to know this is you just got scar tissue. It just feels a little different than last time. Like but, I mean, I did have a few instances throughout that pregnancy where where I had to be impatient, and the struggle was real.
Scott BennerHow hard is it to trust people at their word after you've gone through all that, though?
TabbyVery.
Scott BennerYeah. Right? Like, must you must second guess everything constantly.
TabbyI do.
Scott BennerIs it stick with you since then? I bet you the pediatrician's not getting an easy go.
TabbyNo. Well, Well and and honestly and this is something I've been working on personally just from a healing perspective Yeah because truthfully speaking, I now no matter how hard I try not to, I now operate under a well, what if we're missing something small?
Scott BennerSo I live most of my life thinking nobody knows what they're talking about. I I think that's a baseline survival skill, to be honest with you.
TabbyBecause, I mean, to me, we we miss something that should have been as quick as a simple gallbladder procedure after pregnancy. And we missed those gallstones, and because of it, I almost died.
Scott BennerIt's fascinating that it's not the thing that, like like, we did this. It didn't work. We should go back and check again to make sure we got the gallstones. Like, how do you how do you skip over that part? I don't even know a good way to say this. So, yeah, if you have a bucket leaking and it's got a hole in it and I say, hey. Patch the hole. And I patch the hole and it keeps leaking. I don't start looking for other reasons why the water's coming out of the bucket. I go, we must not have patched the hole correctly. It's fascinating that they didn't just go back and say, maybe just this didn't work out the first time the way it was supposed to. Let's double check. It seems like common sense beyond a medical thing, honestly.
TabbyWe thought so. But but
Scott BennerMy gosh.
TabbySo yeah. So go through all that. Got my pregnancy test. Everything is is moving. Yay. We're pregnant.
TabbyThings are moving pretty quick with the the high risk OB and the my regular OB, and we get going. And then as one would expect, I got diagnosed with gestational diabetes at about eleven weeks. Mhmm. I didn't even have to do a blood glucose or the the gross drink thing because
Scott Bennerthink they were like, no. It's okay. We know.
TabbyIt was like, yeah. This is we already know.
Scott BennerDid you think it was just as gestational, or did you think, oh, no. I'm gonna have type one diabetes?
TabbyI knew that it was gestational, but I felt very strongly. They would they kept telling me that gestational goes away generally after you're pregnant. Mhmm. And it does for for the for a normal person. I knew when I got diagnosed that early with gestational that it was not going to be long before I got diagnosed type three c.
Scott BennerYeah. You don't bother buying lottery tickets. Right?
TabbyOh, no.
Scott BennerYou don't. I'm like the the most unlucky person. Was gonna say. If I was you, I would just look left, right, left a couple of times and cross the street very carefully and and never waste it never waste a dollar on a scratcher. I don't think it's gonna go your way.
TabbyOh, yeah. We joke about it all the time that if you do. If it can only happen to one person in the world, it's probably happening.
Scott BennerSo listen, guys. If if if a if a asteroid ever hits the planet, be sure you know it landed wherever you are. Yeah. Honestly. Everyone died, but I got to go first, Scott. Don't worry. My gosh. Do you have any brothers or sisters?
TabbyI do. I have a lot of siblings. Any of them have any kind of, like, odd health issues?
TabbyNope. Just me.
Scott BennerJust you you've a lot of siblings? You're like, my mom made a lot of babies. Is that what you're saying?
TabbyWell, no. I have I just call them all my siblings. Like, the family that I need for, I ended up moving with them moving in with them during college. And
Scott BennerA lot of people in your life. None of them are sick. That's what you're saying. That's what you're saying. You don't have any autoimmune issues. Right? Like, you weren't gonna touch diabetes or autoimmune without without this. Nope. Okay. Yeah.
Scott BennerMy goodness. How do you learn about type one when you're dropped into it from this perspective?
TabbyHonestly, it was it was very difficult for me because type three c is not very well known. Yeah.
TabbySo it was all the research and the things that you see online and and all the the things that you can use to help with diabetes are all geared towards a type one or a type two. And so I would go to these appointments, and I had no idea of, like, okay. Am I more like type one? Am I more like type two? I didn't I didn't know. I didn't fully understand. And a lot of the, like, online even when you sign up to get, like, an Omnipod or this or that, like, the option is type one or type two. So it was it was very, very challenging to navigate. I have a good endocrine team, and and they were very, very helpful throughout it. And they did a great job. But even their office, I mean, they knew we knew that I was gonna have type three c and that it was gonna be diagnosed a year before it was officially diagnosed. And they still the appointment where I was diagnosed, they still put it in as type two. And then I had to have them update my records. And they did, but it was like they still it's just not something that that really many teams are
Scott Bennerare used to.
Scott BennerAnd the naming structure ended up being complicated for you because, I mean, listen, you don't have a pancreas anymore. You're gonna get treated like a type one, and you're gonna need to manage like a type one. But because type one diabetes means what it means and type two means what it means, does it feel like you're co opting something? Because I've heard people say that before. Like, I didn't wanna call myself type one. I mean, I am, but I'm not. I don't wanna offend peep do you have all those thoughts?
TabbyI I do. Generally, if somebody asks me, I I say type three c, and then they they inevitably always ask what that is, and so I have to explain it. And that's fine. But it is weird. Yeah. Because it's and and the other thing is, like, I I do still have a little bit of my pancreas. So it's like there is still a little bit functioning in there. It just will never ever again be able to sustain how much insulin production it it needs to.
Scott BennerYou actually need. Yeah.
TabbySo, yeah, it's it's
Scott BennerThis is gonna sound completely ridiculous, but it's like the stolen valor thing. Right? You know, when we you ever hear people like they they kinda make up their military service and it's a very offensive thing to do? Like, you're like, you weren't really there. Like, it almost feels like you're like, whatever it is that a type one goes
Tabbythrough.
TabbyYeah. That's exactly right.
Scott BennerYeah. You can't take credit for it. Right? That they're all the wrong words, but do you know what I mean?
TabbyYeah. Yes. I know exactly what you're saying.
Scott BennerOkay. I'm glad because because I wasn't doing a good job.
TabbyNo. I got it. Yeah. It's yeah. It is weird. And it's odd too because it's like every person with diabetes has their own unique journey, and it's been very challenging for pretty much everybody that's had it. And so it's like, it's tricky because, again, I don't wanna step on any toes, and I don't want anyone to feel like I know what it's like to be a type one diabetic for my entire life because I don't.
Scott BennerBut there's also no club of type three c's, really.
TabbyRight.
Scott BennerYeah. She's a type of yourself.
TabbyOn the same point of that is I may not have had the learning how to work a pump at eight years old and dealing with it at school and all those things, but I did have quite the journey to
Scott BennerWell, yeah, people are still I mean, people are still diagnosed at your age and other ages, but I would just think, like, if communally, you were adopted in, that's how I would see it. Like, I I can understand I mean, I can understand someone looking up
TabbyAnd that's mostly how it's been.
Scott BennerYeah. Would imagine. Yeah. I would imagine it's mostly been a reasonable experience for you. But Yeah. Yeah. And every once in while, get somebody that's surly about it. Like, you don't have type one. Like, yeah. I don't know. We both need insulin or the same thing happens. So Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Kabi. Damn. So tell me how it's going. Like, what'd you figure out? How are you been able to manage it? You know, have have you Yeah.
TabbySo, thankfully, my endocrine team was was very good, and we had a conversation kind of middle of last year, really right right when my son got out the NICU. We sat down, and I I basically told her, I said, you know, I'm pretty sure that this is gonna go south fast. And so I checked all my labs. We had everything on record. And and I told her, I said, you know, this is gonna sound bad, but I've hit my out of pocket max on medical for the last three years.
Scott BennerMhmm.
TabbyAnd I've already hit my out of pocket max for this year. So I know it's harder to get qualifications for pumps and things like that based on my diagnosis. I said, but we know that that's what I need. So whatever data or labs or whatever we have to collect between now and the end of the year to get that official diagnosis, so I qualify for a pump at the end of the year?
Scott BennerYeah. Let's get to it so it I don't have to pay more money at the next year. Right? You're you're like, everything's free right now. I need it now. Right.
TabbyYeah. And so so they did. They they did. They we got everything we needed. My blood sugar had to get kinda bad, honestly, before we officially did it. And so we did. My a one c ended up at, like, 7.4, I think. And at that point, we had enough data on my Libres and things that had been monitoring, and I was doing the injections at home. And I was up to a relatively high amount of insulin for for someone who was doing injections. And so they submitted the claim November 27 with my insurance to get prior authorization for a pump and insulin and everything, and it was accepted. And I ended up getting a ninety day supply of insulin and Omnipods right before the end of the year.
Scott BennerGood. That's great.
TabbySo it was really good.
Scott BennerHow are you doing? Like, how's your a one c and your time in range, or how are you adjusting to it? Like
TabbySo my a one c did drop down to 5.3
Scott BennerOh.
Tabbyat my appointment in was either January or early February. And so that would have been about two months on pump.
Scott BennerSo what what do do you eat? Like, a dust and kale? How do you, what's your diet like?
TabbyI have been very cautious of what I'm eating, and don't get me wrong. I still eat some sugar sometimes. Like, I still like sweet treats, but anywhere that I can make a swap, I have made a swap.
Scott BennerOkay. But if I see you going for the digestive enzymes, something's going on. Right?
TabbyWell, I actually have to take digestive enzymes every time I eat. Yeah.
Scott BennerNo matter what. What what about, like, you had dinner. It's all good. It's two hours later. You're cruising through the kitchen on the way back to the television. You grab four hard pretzels out of a bag. You need to put an enzyme in with it?
TabbyThat, I wouldn't.
Scott BennerOkay. Okay. But otherwise, no gallbladder.
TabbyYeah. So the way it works is I'm supposed to take one one to two with snacks and then two to three with meals. And so it just kinda depends. Like, if I'm getting a snack that's that's like pretzels or almonds or
Scott BennerMhmm.
Tabbysomething relatively fairly normal, then I usually will not take any or only take one. But if I'm getting a snack that's like an ice cream Snickers bar or a piece of pizza or something like that, then I'll definitely do the higher dose of the digestive enzymes.
Scott BennerWhat happens if you don't take them?
TabbyMy body really struggles to digest food in general.
Scott BennerYou get, like, belly pain. And
TabbyYeah. Very uncomfortable. Yeah. Abdominal pain, pancreatic pain.
Scott BennerWhen they explained that to you after the surgery, did they tell you it's all about the gallbladder, or did they also mention that the pancreas had something to do with it too?
TabbyIt all started with the gallbladder, but but yeah. I mean, the pancreas didn't really help out.
Scott Benner SlideDidn't help anything as as things started to kinda go south. Because, you know, people would act, you know, with type one diabetes, I mean, the pancreas does more than just make insulin. And, you know, so you lose some other functionality, and digestion is part of it too. Right. So, yeah, when you lose everything, then you're stuck.
Scott BennerIs it a pain in the butt, or are you getting used to it, the taking the enzymes?
TabbyI'm kinda used to it now. I mean, I know what foods I definitely need them with and what foods I can kinda get away without taking them.
Scott BennerMhmm.
TabbyI know when to take them before meals, because I usually take mine about thirty minutes before meals, and that seems to be a good timing for me on when to take it. I've kinda learned learned my body on the enzymes.
Scott BennerSo some too myself. By the way, don't have any of your problems, but I take them once in a while too. I mean, I'm sure yours are prescribed and mine are over the counter. But
TabbyYes. Mine are prescribed.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah. But I'm an old man who shows up at a diner with a pill in his pocket. You know what I mean? My wife's like, can you get something to put those in? I was like, my pocket works fine.
TabbyNo. They make these little things on Amazon. They're actually, like, really small. It's like a little silver, very small.
Scott BennerNo. I mean, I realize I'm a I realize I'm a dirtbag. I know it. I know know what's happening.
TabbyI was gonna say, because I have I have them hooked to my wristlet.
Scott BennerOh, it's a good idea.
TabbyAnd each one holds three.
Scott BennerYeah. That's a great idea. Because when you pull a loose pill out of your pocket, people look at you. I'm not gonna lie. They're like, that guy's getting high right now. I know for sure. But but no. I I I don't know. I find them helpful, to be perfectly honest. But anyway so okay. I'm sorry. How do you know who I am? Like, how did you end up on the podcast?
TabbyYeah. So I actually saw a a post was recommended to me or something was in my pancreatectomy support group Facebook group.
Scott BennerMhmm.
TabbyAnd they had shared your podcast of one that you just reshared recently of somebody who had type three c from years ago that had passed away. And so you had shared it and reshared it in in her honor.
Scott BennerOh, yeah. Yeah.
TabbyAnd so I listened to the whole podcast, and I thought it was incredible. And I just thought it was really cool that that she was willing to to share her story and her experience. And and I thought it was really cool that you were sharing
Scott Bennerconversation to begin
Tabbyunique Yeah. circumstance.
Scott BennerI've had a number of people with three c on over the years.
TabbyYes. Yeah. I've listened to a lot of them now Yeah. now that I have found it. Yeah. I was talking to a friend about it, and you know your phone's always listening. So then on Facebook, later, it had come across my page that you had the thing where you were I was looking for
Scott Bennerlooking for you to come on.
TabbyYeah. Where you had some openings.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I'm glad.
TabbyAnd then that communication started between you and I and
Scott BennerYeah. Her mom reached out to me to tell me that she'd passed away and we were going back and forth talking a little bit and we we came up with, like, reposting the episode, you know, in in her honor. I'm glad I found you. Yeah. Me too. My gosh.
TabbyYeah. Because I've already I mean, even just listening to your podcast, the little bit that I've been able to since that transpired, I I've learned a lot of different just even little tips and tricks that, like, I don't think I ever would have known if Yeah. I didn't listen.
Scott BennerThat's awesome. I'm glad. I'm happy whenever it helps somebody. Is this the end of the bad stuff, or did more happen? Like, you're good now. Right? Like, Yeah. there's nothing else health wise happening? Or or or let me ask you, are you still run down? Like, how long has it been? Like, tell me, like, how much time has it been since you've were like, okay. I have type one or, you know, I have type three c now. I'm managing fully with insulin. How long has it been since then to now?
TabbyFully managing with the diabetes and on the pump since December December.
Scott Benner2025?
Tabby2025. Yes.
Scott BennerNot that long then.
TabbyNo. Okay. And things things are getting better. We are finding things that that work and that help, and, we just identified a few health things that I was having some deficiencies and things like that. So we got supplements on board, and I had to do an infusion. And but, honestly, I felt 10 times better after that, so that was good.
Scott BennerIron infusion?
TabbySo I haven't done the iron infusion yet, but I most likely am gonna have to do one of those here very quick. Yeah. The one that they had me do was more so, like, almost every vitamin and mineral under the sun because that was depleted in my follicle.
Scott BennerDo you have low ferritin?
TabbyI do. Yeah. I do have very low. Yes. Which they said that can it can be common after splenectomy.
Scott BennerOkay. Do you know what your ferritin is?
TabbyIt was 11.
Scott BennerOh, no. You need the you need the juice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've done it a couple times in my life. It's awesome. Yeah. Why are you not getting it? What's happening?
TabbyWell, so they wanted to try supplementation first.
Scott BennerMm-mm. That's bullshit. It's not gonna work. Just tell them you want the other thing. Yeah.
TabbyYeah. Well, my doctor, thankfully, he's very good about kind of working not around my insurance, but with my insurance.
Scott BennerSo your side. Yeah.
TabbyHe has kinda learned what they're just gonna deny without him having to
Scott BennerTrying something else first.
TabbyYes. And so so we tried we were trying this for three weeks, and then, literally, I'm supposed to go on a cruise in a couple weeks. And so he basically said before that to just call him, and we'll get blood work done. And that way, if it's still low, then we'll go ahead and abuse before.
Scott BennerI wish you would have found me sooner. I'd I do a cruise in June with a bunch of listeners.
TabbyNo. So I saw that actually. It popped up on my Facebook too. Yeah. And I also was like, man, I wish I would have known that. But
Scott BennerThat's him. Hopefully, we'll do it again next year. It's not a thing that makes money, so it's a a labor of love for a lot of people. Like, it's a lot of a lot of hard work that goes into making it happen. And then, hopefully, we can get it to go for a third year. So it is really awesome. It I'll I'll tell you. To get everybody together, all, you know, different, you know, races, religions, ages, type ones, parents of, and watch them just effortlessly blend together in a happy little group is very interesting. It's very cool.
TabbyYeah. No. I would honestly, I thought it was so cool. I was looking at it to see, but I just can't make it happen before June.
Scott BennerIt's a good ship too. It's, I don't know if you've ever done that one. It's a celebrity beyond. It's really good.
TabbySee, I haven't. Yeah. We haven't done a celebrity yet, but we love cruises in my house.
Scott BennerWell, I could tell your story. You're in a cruise every time you look up, you're on a cruise.
TabbyYeah. That's true.
Scott BennerThey go out of Galveston, so that's not bad at all. Right?
TabbyYeah. No. It's that's where we usually go out of.
Scott BennerThat where our first one went out of, Galveston. It was a good time. Is there anything I haven't asked you about or anything that I've forgotten or I don't wanna miss any of your story because sometimes I get chatty and I redirect the conversation.
TabbyNo. You're good.
Scott BennerI did alright?
TabbyYeah.
Scott BennerThat's all I heard. I heard I did okay. Do you have you tried the management stuff? Have you tried, like, pro tips or small sips or any of those series that are about insulin?
TabbyI have not yet, but I want to.
Scott BennerDo it. Try the small sips first as an entree. They're literally, like, ten minutes long, each of them.
TabbyOkay. Yeah. And those are on your website. Right?
Scott BennerYeah. You can get them there. You can go I mean, do you have an iPhone?
TabbyYes.
Scott BennerApple Podcasts? Just select subscribe to the podcast and type in juice box small sips. They'll all pop up.
TabbyOh, okay. Perfect.
Scott BennerYeah. But my website I'm actually my website's getting pretty damn good. It took me, like, a decade, but I'm really getting on top of it now. I'm just gonna tell you about this because I don't know who else to tell. So I added this web page. It's juiceboxpodcast.com, but then it's, I think it's jbfaq. Is that right? Yes. Okay. And so what I did was I took, this list I had, from listeners. It's a struggles list that originally was like 80 or 90 pages. People just sent in all the things they struggled with. And we kinda synthesized them down to, like, common themes, things that people struggle with over and over again. And we blended that. And by we, I mean, me and my friend Claude. We blended that with the top 350 most Googled questions about type one diabetes, and then blended that with returns from this this, Facebook post that really blew up well with advice for parents of a newly diagnosed kid. So I took the advice for the parents, and I synthesized them. I basically reversed engineered them into questions, combined them all together, and then I took all of the management episodes of the podcast and mapped all those questions to episodes that are valuable for if you have those questions.
TabbyOh, that's yeah. That's great. I'll definitely check that out.
Scott BennerThere's like a search bar at the top and you start typing and it just drives you towards content. So if you're I don't know. If you're having trouble, like, you know, I can't set Bazel. Right? Boom. It just sends you the episodes that help you with it. It's really cool.
TabbyYeah. That is really cool. Yeah. And so I do think I listened to a few of the small steps because I definitely listened to some smaller
Scott BennerLike, episodes.
TabbyShorter podcast Yeah. through the thing. And then I went on your website. I was looking at all the resources, and honestly, like, I was just so impressed Thank you. by everything on the website.
Scott BennerI appreciate it. That's me.
TabbySo many resources that I was like, okay. I have not don't know what to do to look at first.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah. That's me and AI, by the way. We work together.
TabbyI love AI.
Scott BennerYeah. No kidding. I've had these ideas about my website for years, and I never ever ever could figure out how to take care of it. And no kidding. I was starting to get there with Google Gemini. And then I don't know what happened, but Anthropic updated Claude about a month ago. And I was like, oh, we're ready for prime time. I know what to do. And I've been, like, head down working on my website for, like, a month and a half now, and it really looks awesome. So and it's Oh,
Tabbyit does. It's funky. And I'm not I mean, I'm no expert, and obviously, this is not technically a product. But my my background is in product engineering and and innovation and product marketing. I'm very impressed by your website.
Scott BennerThank you.
TabbyI think it's great. I think it's resourceful, and I think it's gonna help a lot of people.
Scott BennerI appreciate it. I was telling well, right now, my basement's being turned into a podcast studio. So there are people down there working, and they're people I've known my whole life. So they're not just they're not, like, just guys down there swinging hammers that I've never met before. They're people I've known in a really long time. And I was standing with them the other day, and they were they kind of you know, it's like a two worlds thing. I I think it's hard for people to believe you make a living making a podcast. You know what mean? Like, it flips people out. And, anyway and so we just kinda asked some questions going back and forth about a little bit. And I said, you know, it's gonna sound crazy to you. I was like, but this is as close as I think I'll ever feel to a job like yours because I start with ideas in my head and with tools, even though they're physical tools and physical materials. I take tools and digital materials and build something out of my imagination. And I was like, it really I think it's as close as I'm ever gonna come to, like, you know, putting up a wall or doing something like that that I'm seeing you guys do right now. I don't know if they believe me or not, but I really feel like that. Like, I've had these ideas for so long, and I just didn't have the right tools to put them together. But I had all the material, which is my data and my, you know, and my content. And I just I just needed to be able to, like, hammer together into something. This did it. So, hopefully, it won't blow the world up.
TabbySo great. And I actually I've been thinking about that a lot too because I've I've started sharing my story a little bit on on social media and just kind of and have a growing community, small community on TikTok just of of other moms that have had health challenges, other moms in general, and other people who have chronic illnesses. And and I've been sharing, like, my different experiences at the hospitals and sharing about my story a little bit. And really my hope is that that I can raise awareness for for some of these things and and help someone. And I think that's a lot of what I've gathered. A lot of the people who who run these types of podcasts want to. Yeah. And so I'm thankful that you're putting the time into it because I've I've learned a lot through it, and I think that that it has helped me. And it's given me an avenue to be able to to kinda share what happened to me. And
Scott BennerThank you.
TabbyThat's great.
Scott BennerI I appreciate it. I wish you luck doing the same. It's just it's a it's lovely to get out there and and share stuff and let people feel like they're not alone. It's really, actually incredibly important. Okay. Well, we've been at this enough. I can hear the editor right now. He's saying, stop right now. We've got a good length. Keep going too long and we're in trouble. Yeah. Seriously, I appreciate you spending the time sharing this with me. I wanted to tell you, there's no pressure here, but I am interested in you, like, two years from now. If you wanna try to come back on at some point, like, really in the future
TabbyYeah.
Scott BennerI'm interested because right now, you're talking about diabetes coming out of the lens of having all this happen to you. The getting diabetes is almost, I'm not gonna say it's good news, but at least it's the end of all your pain and your suffering and all that stuff. I wonder if if you'll sound more like a regular old type one a few years from now where you're like, Scott, this is grinding on me. Like, you you know what I mean? Like, I'm wondering if you'll if you if that experience will happen or if this part will carry you further. It's it's in the back of my mind. But if you, you wake up a couple years now and you wanna be on a podcast, contact me back again.
TabbyOh, for sure.
Scott BennerCool.
TabbyI absolutely will.
Scott BennerThank you. I really appreciate it. Congratulations on the baby too. Forest is a cool name.
TabbyThank you.
Scott BennerYeah. You're welcome.
TabbyAnd thank you for for the opportunity. And
Scott BennerOh, it's a pleasure. You don't have to thank me, please. I need something to put my ads on. You don't have to thank me.
TabbyI feel that.
Scott BennerAlright. Hold on one second. Thanks.
Scott BennerThis episode was sponsored by Touched by Type one. I want you to go find them on Facebook, Instagram, and give them a follow, and then head to touchedbytype1.org where you're gonna learn all about their programs and resources for people with type one diabetes. Are you tired of getting a rash from your CGM adhesive? Give the Eversense three sixty five a try. Eversensecgm.com/juicebox. Beautiful silicone that they use. It changes every day, keeps it fresh. Not only that, you only have to change the sensor once a year. So, I mean, that's better. Today's episode of the juice box podcast was sponsored by the new Tandem Mobi system and Control IQ plus technology. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. Check it out. Okay. Well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me? Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribe in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram, TikTok. Oh, gosh. Here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't wanna miss please, do you not know about the private group? You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. They're active talking about diabetes. Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now. And I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say hi. If you'd like to hear about diabetes management in easy to take in bits, check out the small sips. That's the series on the Juice Box podcast that listeners are talking about like it's a cheat code. These are perfect little bursts of clarity, one person said. I finally understood things I've heard a 100 times. Short, simple, and somehow exactly what I needed. People say small sips feels like someone pulling up a chair, sliding a cup across the table, and giving you one clean idea at a time. Nothing overwhelming, no fire hose of information, just steady helpful nudges that actually stick. People listen in their car, on walks, or rather actually bolus ing anytime that they need a quick shot of perspective. And the reviews, they all say the same thing. Small sips makes diabetes make sense. Search for the Juice Box podcast, small sips, wherever you get audio. If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. Listen. Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go and stuff like that. And it just I don't know, man. Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? And then I remember because I did one smart thing. I hired Rob at wrong way recording dot com.
#1861 Fight the Power
Gillian discusses teenage rebellion, living with necrobiosis lipoidica, and a legal battle against medical school bureaucracy over a false-positive alcohol test caused by high blood sugar fermentation.
Key Takeaways
- Urine Screen Alterations via Glucosuria: Elevated blood glucose levels can cause sugar to spill into the urine (glucosuria). If the urine specimen contains high amounts of glucose, ambient yeast or bacteria can ferment the sugar post-collection, generating ethanol within the sample cup and causing a false positive on alcohol drug screenings.
- Critical Device Proximity for AID Systems: Automated Insulin Delivery (AID) loops depend on persistent Bluetooth connectivity between the continuous glucose monitor (CGM), insulin pump, and smart controller. Severing this connection by confiscating or moving a device can immediately trigger system failures, place the pump into a limited backup mode, and prompt dangerous, rapid hyperglycemia.
- ADA Rights to Classroom/Testing Accommodations: Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), academic and institutional environments are legally obligated to provide reasonable accommodations for individuals with Type 1 diabetes. This includes immediate, non-penalized access to glucose monitoring technology, corrective fast-acting carbohydrates, and fluids during lecture and examination periods.
- Understanding Necrobiosis Lipoidica: Historically termed Necrobiosis Lipoidica Diabeticorum (NLD), this rare, chronic inflammatory skin condition primarily causes shiny, yellow-brown, or deep reddish plaques on the lower shins. The condition involves underlying microvascular changes and collagen degeneration, frequently making the skin thinned, thinned over the bone, and susceptible to severe ulceration.
- Combatting Burnout with Strategic Dosing: Navigating systemic institutional barriers can compound psychological diabetes burnout. Re-establishing basic management fundamentals—specifically practicing precise meal pre-bolusing and consistently evaluating baseline basal profiles—remains the most effective tactic for resetting glucose time-in-range metrics.
Resources Mentioned
- Juicebox Podcast Website Support: juiceboxpodcast.com
- Omnipod 5 Automated Insulin Delivery: omnipod.com/juicebox
- Dexcom Continuous Glucose Monitoring (Dexcom G7): dexcom.com/juicebox
- Professional Audio Production & Editing: wrongwayrecording.com
Childhood Diagnosis and Teenage Rebellion
Scott BennerWelcome back, friends, to another episode of the Juice Box podcast.
GillianMy name is Gillian. I am a type one diabetic of, I believe, it'll be twenty three years. In April, I was diagnosed at five.
Scott BennerCheck out my algorithm pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod five, Loop, Medtronic seven eighty g, Twist, Tandem Control IQ, and much more. Each episode will dive into the setup, features, and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type one diabetes management. We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences, and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care. If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the algorithm pumping series in the Juice Box podcast. Easiest way, juiceboxpodcast.com, and go up into the menu. Click on series, and it'll be right there.
Scott BennerWhile you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.
Scott BennerThis episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Omnipod five. Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system that's been shown to significantly improve a one c and time and range for people with type one diabetes when they've switched from daily injections.
Scott BennerLearn more and get started today at omnipod.com/juicebox. At my link, you can get a free starter kit right now. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott BennerToday's episode is also sponsored by Dexcom, the Dexcom g seven, the same CGM that my daughter wears. You can learn more and get started today at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox.
GillianMy name is Gillian. I am a type one diabetic of I believe it'll be twenty three years in April. I was diagnosed at five. And my diabetic journey slash life has been very interesting in the last two years.
Scott BennerCan we find out a little bit about the beginning part before we get to those last two years?
GillianYeah. Absolutely. What do you—
Scott BennerI don't know, but you said diabetic journey. And the other day, Arden said to me, dad, this is my health journey. And I was like, is she being sarcastic, or does she mean that? So—
GillianNo. I I don't know. I think of it, you know, we all talk about you see the memes on Facebook and everything, and it's like, it's another job. It wasn't until this whole instance really became a thing that or I should say until, like, 2020 when I started working in the medical field, it really hit me that it wasn't a second job or anything. Like, this is my life. Okay. I was pretty bad teenager, rebellious against it. I went on the pump, I got just really lazy with the Medtronic.
Scott BennerHow do you rebel well, first of all, you're diagnosed at five. Right?
GillianYep. Yep.
Scott BennerYour, parents are married?
GillianParents married. No other diabetic in the family. My grandma is a type two. Now she treats it more like a type one, but I don't—nothing to her. I just don't consider her like a full on type one.
Scott BennerWhat the way she's doing? How about brothers, sisters?
GillianNo sisters, no brothers, only child.
Scott BennerOh.
GillianMhmm. What was—I was a in vitro, I believe, baby. So it took my parents a few—a few years to have me.
Scott BennerAh, that was enough. Yeah. Get—get you out was, enough work.
GillianI always joke because they were like, oh, you were—you were healthy. You were a good kid. We decided not to have any more. And I was like, you guys jinx this. You guys jinx this.
Scott BennerThis one's good. What do we need another one for? Right.
GillianRight. So—
Scott BennerAlright. Yeah. So growing up twenty three years ago so Arden's had diabetes since 2006. Was this just, like, 2003?
GillianYes. Yep. Okay. I had just turned five. So my birthday is in March, and then I was diagnosed 04/07/2003.
Scott BennerOkay. So your management in the beginning was what? Like, just injections and a—and you had a little meter. Right?
GillianYep. Yep. Yep. Carrying ice boxes—or not an ice box, but, you know, like a cooler around with us. And parents really always have—always been involved with it.
Scott BennerWhat kind of experience did they have managing it? Like, do you know what your a one c's were back then when you were little kid?
GillianOh, yeah. They were—I was very independent, actually, until, like, the whole reason I'm on this podcast with you. I never had to have, like, school accommodations or anything. One, school really was just like, if she knows how to manage it, we're cool. And my parents wanted to be as, quote, unquote, normal as possible. They didn't want me to have this, like, overwhelming, like, chip on my shoulder that I'm excessively different because my pancreas just doesn't wanna work.
Scott BennerOkay. So—so you're telling me what—you did shots when you were a little kid Yeah. on your own?
GillianI did shots up until I was 11 years old. I was a very active horseback rider, and I was very tiny. And the Omnipod back then, I remember it being, like—looking at it, and I'm like, I don't want this giant, like, brick being on my body.
Scott BennerIt used to be bigger. Yeah. Yeah.
GillianYeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, well, what if I, like, hit it on a barn door or, you know, I had a horse that he liked to nibble. And I was like, well, what if he rips it off? And it just made me really scared, so I didn't want the tube pump either. But then I had a nurse practitioner that came in and just, like, literally beat the crap out of his pump site, and that was game changer for me because I was so afraid that it was gonna hurt if I fell off and it got ripped out. And then I at 11 years old, I switched to the Medtronic pump.
Scott BennerBecause someone showed you, look, you can be rough with it. It's okay.
GillianYeah.
Scott BennerYeah. So in that time between 11 and diagnosis, are you one of those little kids who's, like, giving yourself shots, or is your mom and dad—you're doing it yourself. Right?
GillianI was at school full, I believe that—I mean, right around diagnosis, like, my memory wasn't isn't the most great about it. Yeah. But I believe that they would help me, like, they learn taught me how to count carbs. I was very hands on with my nutritionist at, you know, Nationwide Children's Hospital. I really—they would always ask me, how much do you think for this? You know, how much would you give for this? And it was pretty easy because my carb ratio was, like, one unit per 15 grams.
Scott BennerYeah.
GillianSo it was just counting in 15.
Scott BennerYeah. The math is pretty—pretty easy.
GillianYeah. So Yeah.
Scott BennerWhat are outcomes like? Do you know what your a one c's were? What—what are the first ones you're aware of?
GillianI don't remember those as much. I know I was really well controlled.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianI had no issues.
Scott BennerBecause the doctor would say, hey. You're doing great? Or—
GillianYes. Yes. Okay. And they would even show me the graphs. Like, the older I started to become, they would show me the graphs and be like, oh, what happened here? And I'd be like, oh, maybe I just forgot to, you know, give myself an extra half a unit because I wasn't sure. Right. You know? I had lunch at school this day. I wasn't sure, so I gave myself half a unit less so I wouldn't go as low or something like that.
Scott BennerSo you're on the Medtronic pump at eleven. Did—do you have their CGM at that point too?
GillianI don't think so. I think I was on Dexcom at first.
Scott BennerOkay. You liked having a CGM?
GillianI loved it. I started feeling even more free. My—you know, I used to have, like, these really dark circles under my eyes, and I was always really pale. And I started, like, looking not as much of a zombie. And family and friends used to be like, oh, she looks so much healthier. You know?
Scott BennerWhy do you think that is? Did you have more stability, you think?
GillianI think it was more stability, and I think it was—I have always—even when I've had a pump issue over the past couple of years, and I go back to shots, not getting that insulin, like, not manual, the automated or the closed loop system—
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianI just feel like trash. I feel like my bones—I have no fluid in my body, and everything is just sandpaper. And I don't know if it's because it's not, like, injections every second that I feel that way, but it just doesn't feel like I even take my Lantus when I take my Lantus.
Scott BennerYou feel better on a pump than you—
Gilliandid—Yes.
Scott BennerAt MDI. Okay. Alright. So how do we get from this little girl who's like, I feel more free and this is better to—like, when do you become a teenager who's like, I'm gonna rebel and I choose diabetes to rebel against? When does that happen?
GillianI think it happened around puberty at the age of 13. I started realizing that—I changed schools, and it wasn't the school thing, but, you know, boys, whatever. And I wasn't like—it was always my horse. Still is always my horse.
Scott BennerWere you gonna say I wasn't boy crazy?
GillianI was not boy crazy. I just started becoming, you know, like, puberty. Okay. It's things of, like, oh, well, maybe this girl has a boyfriend because she doesn't have diabetes, or maybe they're getting to do these things because, you know, they're—these kids are going to go to sleepovers, but my parents don't necessarily trust their parents to wake me up at 2AM in the morning—Okay. to make sure that I'm not double arrows down Gilly and then at forty two.
Scott BennerThen you're very aware of your diabetes and the impact it's having on big and small things in your life.
GillianYes.
Scott BennerSo you shove it away to make it go away?
GillianYes.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianI was like, I don't want any part of this anymore.
Scott BennerWhat does that look like functionally? Like, not taking care of it? Or how do you—Yeah. How do you move it aside?
GillianI remember I wouldn't change my pump sites for ten or fourteen days at a time until they became so—not infected. Thankfully, I never had to go to hospital for an infection. But until they became so sore or my dad, like, was like, look. You are going to change this pump site or we're having a family intervention.
Scott BennerDo you look back now and see, were they scared of you?
GillianThey weren't scared of me. They were scared of what would happen to me.
Scott BennerBut it—but why didn't they just come to you on day whatever? It was supposed to be changed and say, hey, today, Gillian, today's the day. We're gonna change your pump site today.
GillianThey did, and I completely ignored them. Or I would tell them I changed it, and I wouldn't. And so I was that little teenager that didn't rebel on anything else except for my diabetes because I was so mad that I was a diabetic and I was different from others that it—I was just gonna completely ruin my life about it.
Scott BennerAnd did you realize that was happening? So while you're making the decision not to change your sight or to bolus or whatever you were doing. Right? Yeah. Do you have a conscious thought? Like, I am trading health for being able to ignore this, or is it not the way it seems to you is at that age?
GillianWhen I got older, yes. Right around the time I started driving and, you know, I grew up in Ohio. I lived in Ohio for most of my life. My family is still there. Mhmm. It wasn't apparent until I had to have my doctor sign off on my driver's license to say that I was healthy and safe enough to drive that I realized, oh, somebody can actually take more control than me. And I didn't like that.
Scott BennerOh, Gillian, I mean this in a—in a lovely way, and I mean this as the father of a—of a 21, almost 22 year old, girl. Are you, what they call stubborn?
GillianA little bit.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh-huh.
GillianI yeah.
Scott BennerI am too, by the way. I just wanna—I just wanna point out, but do you look for arguments sometimes?
GillianNot all the time. I think a lot of my family would say yes. I have this—do have this tendency—
Scott BennerI disagree with them. Yeah. I just—
Gillianhave this tensed—tendency to question a lot of things because I'm so over analytical about literally everything in my life that it sometimes comes off as questioning, and it comes off at—or to me, it's questioning. But to them, it's I wanna argue.
Scott BennerAre you anxious?
GillianNo. No? Not really. I just—
Scott BennerDo you have thyroid—do you have thyroid? Mm-mm. No?
GillianNope. I only have one other disease from this that's essentially the way doctors explained it to me hooked on to my diabetes. At 11 years old, I had mono. And I went from riding horses and dancing six to seven days a week to complete bedridden for three months.
Living with Necrobiosis Lipoidica
Scott BennerAnd then you got diabetes a little bit after that? Or no? No. Oh, you were older. I'm sorry.
GillianSkin disease. I got this skin disease called necrobiosis lipoideica.
Scott BennerWhat the hell kind of a name is that?
GillianYeah. And it basically, you have to have an autoimmune disease. Back then, it was necrobiosis lipoidica diabeticorum, but they kind of dropped the diabeticorum because it doesn't just affect diabetics.
Scott BennerI've heard this one before. What is this? What is what—
GillianIt's basically a collagen disease. It's very common in females, especially diabetic females, or there's another common disease that it's more common in. But it affects skin cells and skin tissues within the collagen level down below the knees. And it kinda looks like I have burns. Some people, they're not as bright red. Some—for me, mine are very bright red. You can see my veins going through them. It sucks as a female because I swear they grow hair faster than anything else on my body.
Scott BennerWait. The veins or the—or the—
GillianThe—the lesions.
Scott BennerOh, the—oh. And are they—are they raised?
Scott BennerThe Dexcom g seven is sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast, and it features a lightning fast thirty minute warm up time. That's right. From the time you put on the Dexcom g seven till the time you're getting readings, thirty minutes.
Scott BennerThat's pretty great. It also has a twelve hour grace period, so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable, and light, these things, in my opinion, make the Dexcom g seven a no brainer. The Dexcom g seven comes with way more than just this. Up to 10 people can follow you. You can use it with type one, type two, or gestational diabetes. It's covered by all sorts of insurances and, this might be the best part. It might be the best part. Alerts and alarms that are customizable so that you can be alerted at the levels that make sense to you. Dexcom.com/juicebox. Links in the show notes, links at juiceboxpodcast.com to Dexcom and all of the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful.
Scott BennerToday's episode is brought to you by Omnipod. We talk a lot about ways to lower your a one c on this podcast. Did you know that the Omnipod five was shown to lower a one c? That's right. Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system, and it was shown to significantly improve a one c and time and range for people with type one diabetes when they switched from daily injections. My daughter is about to turn 21 years old, and she has been wearing an Omnipod every day since she was four. It has been a friend to our family, and I think it could be a friend to yours. If you're ready to try Omnipod five for yourself or your family, use my link now to get started. Omnipod.com/juicebox. Get that free Omnipod five starter kit today. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox.
GillianYes and no.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianWhen I was younger, they were really bad, and I had, like, no tissue. They were just up against the bone.
Scott BennerOh my god.
GillianYeah. And if I would touch them, they would break open, and it would be horrific.
Scott BennerHoly hell. Is there a treatment for it or no?
GillianThey're starting to get more treatment. The most promising thing right now is having, like, steroid injections in them, which I refuse to do because it—I just don't wanna deal with the blood sugar issues.
Scott BennerWell, how long would the steroids help for if you got the injections?
GillianPotent—they're—they're not sure, but, potentially, the rest of my life. But I would still have them. They just wouldn't be as red.
Scott BennerDo you know how—how long the injections would last for?
GillianNot really. No. Say they save the rest of my life. Some people don't. I'm more afraid of the—not the blood sugar issues, but the blood sugar issues with having them, like, injected into and potentially them ulcerating. I don't want an ulcer. They're closed. I'm cool with having bull's eyes on my shins.
Scott BennerGotcha. You have, like, the greatest collection of, like, tall socks in the world?
GillianI do. I do. I love my compression socks. Love them.
Scott BennerOh, compression socks help with it?
GillianMhmm. A little bit. I use a all natural, like, self tanner—
Scott BennerMhmm.
Gillianthat in the summertime to blend in some of it. And that, I honestly think, helps the most because there's a lot of essential oils and natural things in there that helps keep them, you know, moist and not so scaly looking either.
Scott BennerI didn't wanna have to look this up because I don't want the embarrassment of typing it in, but I—is it an autoimmune issue?
GillianNo. It only is present with people with, like, an autoimmune disease, but that was also, like, ten years ago. Now I'm, like, on a Facebook group, and there's some people that don't even have diabetes, and they're getting this.
Scott BennerWhat's it called again? And go slow, please.
GillianNecrobiosis.
Scott BennerNecrobiosis.
GillianLipoidica. Hold on.
GillianYou're good. You're good. It's l i—
Scott BennerIt—it changed it to lipstick. Lip—
GillianOf course. Auto correct.
Scott BennerYeah. Lip lip good. L i—
Gillianp i Mhmm. d i c a, I believe.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd then diabetic, and then on the end of that, o r u m. So diabeticorum.
Scott BennerMore commonly called necrobiosis lipoidica is a rare inflammatory skin disorder. It usually shows up in shiny yellow, brown, reddish plaques. It is not clearly established as a classic autoimmune disease. The exact case is still uncertain. Current references describe it as involving inflammation, collagen, degeneration, and blood vessels of microvascular.
Dating, Transparency, and Medical Ambitions
Scott BennerAre you married, did you say earlier?
GillianI am. Yep.
Scott BennerIs this hard for you? Like, because you talked about not let—you didn't kinda didn't want people to see as having diabetes when you're younger. Was this hard?
GillianIt was interesting. That's for sure. I was actually engaged before I've met my current husband, but that—it was definitely hard, like, opening up my insecurities to him.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah. I don't think you're supposed to call your husband your current husband. It makes it sound like—
GillianI can't—no. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott BennerIt makes it sound like there'll be another one at some point.
GillianWell, well, I never—I never plan on being remarried or, you know.
Scott BennerHow long have you been married?
GillianAbout a year and a half.
Scott BennerA year and a half, and she's like, I'm not doing this again.
GillianNo. No. We are very difficult people and we challenge the crap out of each other. I am good. I am good on this.
Scott BennerI like how you start off by going other people say I'm difficult. And ten minutes later, you're like, I am a difficult person. I just wanted to say.
GillianYeah. Yeah. So okay. So tell me a little more about that though, like, opening yourself up. Like, how was that difficult? So—
Gillianhe when I met him, it was very interesting. I was very, like, I was very over dating. I had been on dating apps, you know, peak COVID. How else are you gonna meet people? Mhmm. And I was just, like, kind of just really open. I was like, hey. I have these scars. We're starting to hit summer months. If you can't deal with this and you can't, you know, be there to help me, like, to help reassure that I'm much more than these scars, then I don't really want to partake in this. Like, I'm a diabetic. This is very much my life. If you can't handle it, let me know now. No harm done. We can other people.
Scott BennerHow long does it take you to get to that point? Like, do you realize you like him and you don't wanna be let down if he's gonna let you down so you kind of preemptively have that conversation?
GillianKind of. Yeah. Okay. I always—like, I went on dates with people that it went really great, and then the next thing you know, I never get a respond back. And I never knew why. But with him, it was very different because we had talked on the phone for, like, four hours at a time up until, like, 2AM in the morning—Mhmm. like, two or three times before we met. And it was just very different. I felt very open with him, but at the same time, I was like, I kinda don't care if he doesn't like me because there is a person out there that is gonna like me for who I am.
Scott BennerThe online dating thing, what does it—make you cynical after you people ghost you a few times?
GillianA little bit. I just didn't understand, like, why would you be on a website if you're not gonna at least tell a person, hey. It was a great time. I just don't think you're the person for me. You know?
Scott BennerYeah. It wouldn't seem difficult to me to just go, hey. Look. I appreciate going out with you last night, but I—I'm—I'm not feeling it. And, you know, I—I just wanted to let you know.
GillianYeah. Yeah. I just never really understood that, but I'm also a very blatantly honest person.
Scott BennerAre they a lot of them just trying to get laid?
GillianYeah. Like,
Scott Benneris it as easy as if you don't put out the first time then no one's gonna get back to you? Jesus.
GillianLike, I was very open with my mom about this because I was, you know, living at home, and I was like, hey. I'm going on a date. This—this, you know, this is this person's phone number. This is what it looks like if—you know, that was the deal between her and me is she was very supportive about it, and she was like, hey. I need to know where you're going, who you're meeting, the picture of this person, and their phone number. So if you don't come back, cops are gonna be. You know?
Scott BennerWe have somebody to—somewhere to point this at.
GillianYeah. Yeah. I know. And she was just, like, looking at me after a few times, and I'd come home and be like, oh, this was such an awesome date. Like, we talked about this and we talked about that, and then nothing. Yeah. And then she would be like, well, I think it's because you're kind of a good girl in the sense of you don't do that. And I was like, no. I have way more self respect for myself, and that's the problem.
Scott BennerWell, yeah. Because then if—if you did that anyway, if that's not—if that's not all you were looking for also, by the way, I just wanna be, like, you know, supportive of both genders. If you were just trying to get laid, like, whatever, that's fine. But, like, if that wasn't your situation and you—you kinda bent to that pressure, and then you're either going to be the girl I messaged to have sex with, or I had sex with you and I'm not gonna message you again. Like, that—those are—there's not a lot of wins in that for you if that's not your goal.
GillianYeah.
Scott BennerRight?
GillianYeah.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianYeah. And I knew people from college that had met their significant other online. And I had just gotten out of such a bad relationship that I was like, I need to feel good about myself again and not get the attention from men that, like, you know, you do want to have or the opposite sex that you do wanna have. Mhmm. But I just need to feel good about myself, and I need to meet people, and I need to have people my age that I can go do things with. Even if—
Scott BennerYeah. I—Eat a dinner.
GillianYeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, even if it's like a date and we're like, oh, we really don't wanna date each other, but we're better off as friends, like, least I have somebody to go do things with.
Scott BennerWhat's it like to sit down at a—on a—it's basically a blind date and whip out your pump to give yourself insulin? Like, do you see—do some of them recoil? Are there—are there levels of, I don't know, responses that you see?
GillianYeah. A lot of times, it was just like, oh, I didn't know you were diabetic. And I was like, I keep it hidden very well. You know, I had a PDM still at the time and because I'm now on the Omnipod—
Scott BennerYeah.
Gilliansince college. And it was very easy, you know, winter months to keep it hidden. And if not, I just—I just kinda didn't care because I worked in the medical field. I was in podiatry at the time, and I worked with diabetics day in, day out. And it was something that was an identifier of me that you're gonna—if you're gonna be with me, you're gonna be with that too. And it's a very big aspect of my life, and you're just gonna have to get over it.
Scott BennerI—I don't see another way around it, honestly.
GillianYeah. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know how there's some people that keep it hidden from their spouse or their significant other for months at a time. If you go out to eat, you're gonna have to give yourself a insulin—
Scott Bennerfor the woman on here who grew up with a mom who had type one, and the mom tried to hide it for, like, over a decade?
GillianI did not hear that about—
Scott BennerAnd the mom thought she was hiding it, but I think the—the woman I was interviewing, her sister—I guess her sister got pinched by her mom one day for lying, and the sister just turned it back on her. It was like, like, how are you telling me about this when you try to pretend you don't have diabetes? The mom was like, what? Diabetes?
GillianThat's wild to me.
Scott BennerThat's those girls were like teenagers when that happened, like, teens. Wow. It's crazy.
GillianThat's wild.
Scott BennerYeah. Anyway alright. So I feel like we have a good setup for who you are. Yeah. Now I wanna know why you wanted to come on the podcast. So what happened to you? Like, walk me up to what happened and take me through your experience.
GillianSo due to diabetes, due to just what my dad did for a living in the medical field, I decided at a very young age, I was going to go in the medical field, and I was going to be some form of a doctor. Okay. And then older I got, I was like, I wanna be a surgeon. I love this. Partially because I have a bougie mindset, and I grew up in horses, and I needed some to pay for those suckers.
Scott BennerI was gonna say, you have—you rode horses as a kid because you were an only child. If there was one more sister or brother, that wasn't happening.
GillianMy—my parents remind me. Were like, oh, you are always open to adopting another type one, like, another diabetic, but we told you that you'd have to—it's either the horses or a type one sibling. And I looked at them, and apparently, I was like, well, it's gonna be a horses. Screw the other type one. I'm not sharing this with anybody else. So—
Scott Benneryou were—you're pointed at—at health care coming into college because you have diabetes, something about your dad's business, but I'm not sure And then—and, of course, you were looking to make a reasonable income.
GillianYes.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianYes.
Scott BennerWhat happens next?
GillianSo I get through college, COVID hits. My senior year was a little lost, applied to med schools. Hey. Your grades aren't good enough. Then I found podiatry, and I fell absolutely in love with it. There was nothing—everything just set in stone. I shadowed an amazing doctor in Columbus, and he would take me to his surgeries. And one day, he made a joke at a conference that he invited me to. He was like, oh, we're always hiring. And I said, are you hiring for real? And he said, yep. And I said, can I send you my resume? And next thing I know, I didn't even have an interview. I just got hired as his medical assistant.
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianAnd everything just fell into place. He invited me to one of the surgeries that—it was really funny. I got to schedule all of his surgeries, so I always made them at the time that, like, I could be there as a student.
Scott BennerWonder how many people realized that was happening to them.
GillianWell, he had a two hour lunch break to do surgeries at the hospital next door.
Scott BennerYeah.
GillianSo I would just make sure that, like, I didn't have an appointment to go to that day over, you know, my lunch break or whatever. Yeah. And I would go to them, and he looked at me one day and he said, do you wanna do this surgery? And I was like, hell yes. I wanna do this surgery, but I was scared, absolutely—Uh-huh. and he said, walk me through it and then walk me through it backwards. And he said, alright, kid. You're—you're good. I'll make the cut, and then I'm right here. You, obviously, he didn't let me do everything by myself.
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianBut I ended up assisting and doing every surgery with him from there on out.
Scott BennerWow.
GillianAnd it was just like magic falling into place. Everything that I had ever been through just came down to these moments, and it was like those magical moments in Grey's Anatomy. And I know that's really stupid because the medical field is nothing like Grey's Anatomy. But in those intros where she's just talking about how surgery and life and, you know, the appreciation for it, it just all clicked.
Scott BennerAnd it felt good.
GillianIt felt—yeah.
Scott BennerWhat part of schooling are you in at that point?
GillianI was postgraduate for my undergrad. So I received my diploma in the mail like all the COVID babies did.
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianAnd I was just in the job field just trying to make money, figure out what I needed to do to get into medical school.
Scott BennerOkay. Hey. You being involved in these surgeries, was that legitimately okay, or was this guy—Yes. Yes. Was—
GillianBecause he was always there. He put me down as student, and I was essentially his staff member slash intern.
Scott BennerHow about that? That's cool.
GillianYeah. And some of these—some of these patients, you know, we would do surgeries in the office and because of—oh my gosh. I'm blanking on the name. The loss of feeling in our feet. Neuropathy?
GillianYes. Thank you. Neuropathy. Some of these patients would have neuropathy so bad that they would just feel like, you don't have to numb me up, and she can do it. Yeah. She can do my ingrown. She can, you know, cut this tendon on the bottom of my toe to make my toes straight. I don't care. You know, doc, are you gonna be in the room? He goes, yeah. And so I would just get to do, you know, the procedure right then and there.
Scott BennerYou were cutting out people's ingrown toenails?
GillianYeah.
Scott BennerYeah. Can I tell you Arden had one one time, and I went with her? And for people who don't know, like, they just numb your toe up—Yep. and then stick basically like a scissor underneath your toenail all the way back and just chop off half of it almost and yank it out of the side. Right? And I saw it happen, and I I bet you if I brought up the order right now, she'd be like, oh, yeah. That was wonderful. Because I made a noise and recoiled, and—and she's like, oh, thanks a lot. Right. Right. Yeah. But it was horrifying.
GillianOh, yeah. I don't think—like, I try to take care of—I have one ingrown toenail that will repeatedly come back from just years of riding horses, and I refuse to go and get it taken out just because—
Scott Bennerfine.
GillianYeah. Yeah. Don't want the—I don't want the needle in my foot. I had foot surgery, and that's honestly where the podiatry thing started.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd I had a bone removed. And I remember I went into my follow-up, and I was like, hey. My stitches are really infected. And she's like, well, we're gonna have to numb you up. I'm like, can you do it without numbing me? I really have high pain tolerance. Do it without numbing me. Get this suture out of me. And then she ended up having to numb me, and it was horrible.
Scott BennerI had surgery on my big toe on my right foot. Like, I think a, like, a ligament or a tendon kinda came detached, and then they went in there and, like, did micro needling on the bone to get it to grow back again. Yep. It's been a couple years—it really worked. Yes. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Any—I'm sorry. Anyway, what—No. You're good. So doctor lets you do this stuff. You fall in love with it. What happens next?
The False Positive Urine Test and School Bureaucracy
GillianSo I get into my classes. I didn't need biochemistry, but I needed physics to go into podiatry school, get into that. And couple years later, you know, I didn't really do well in that physics class because we were still in COVID, and they just—the class wasn't set up well at all. And I didn't do well like I needed to to get into podiatry school. So I transfer out of the job because it just wasn't paying. I think it was making, like, $13.50 an hour, and I was driving in two hours a day to this job. Fast forward, meet my husband in the meantime, and I tell him, hey. I wanna do this. Like, I wanna do this. Go back to school, get all the other prerequisites that were too old at the time, like my gen chem and things like that.
Scott BennerYeah.
GillianAnd then I get in to school. I apply. Everything falls into place. You know? I apply, and then I get into—not my top school. I get waitlisted on that, but I get into a school right down the road essentially, like an hour and a half away. So within a half day drive home, and then I get a scholarship too. And my husband and me, we fell in love with the town. It was very small, little, like—Hey. You think maybe we can move there? I can go to school. This will be okay. Right?
GillianYeah. Cheap houses, safe houses, safe area—K. Be great. So we—not quit our jobs, but we find a house up here. We decide, hey. We're gonna take a month long vacation before the next four years of hell, and we're gonna spend a whole month together up here in the summer. Okay. And in the meantime, after we move out of—and at that point, we were also we owned a duplex together. So we lived in one side, and we rented out to the other—Sure. to decrease our cost of living and just have income. So we move out of there. We come up here. We get all settled down. We're having a great time up here in the summer. And I wake up one morning, and I get a phone call from the school. And they're like, hey. We received your drug test. There was a discrepancy on it. We need to talk to you about this. Now I took the drug test in May, and I knew that there was a disc—and a discrepancy on it. It was actually about alcohol, but I had to take Benadryl the night before due to an allergic reaction. I sought nothing of it. I sent it in. I was like, I'm not gonna get this retested because the school's already paid for this one. They're just gonna see it. Might as well send it in. And I was 26 at the time, 25, 26.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianI'm legal. What are you gonna—essentially, what are you gonna do about it? You know?
Scott BennerFor clarity. Yeah. The test did not actually show you weren't drunk or drinking or something. No. It was about—
Gillianthe—It just showed positive. That's it.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd urine analysis tests can show up to, like, three days later on an alcohol test. And I think I took this, like, on a Tuesday morning or something. So there could have been a time that on Saturday night, you know, I go on a date with my husband, and we have a drink. Wasn't uncommon.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd—but I'm not an alcoholic, and I never have been either because it's not worth my health. So I go into the school, and I'm like, I'm not even calling them back. Can I meet with you in person? I wanna discuss this. Going to the school, and they're like, well, we're gonna get your entire, like, life story. And I meet with the psychologist, and he's, like, asking me all these questions. Have you ever thought about killing yourself? Have you ever had to have therapy? All these questions. And I'm like, how the hell does this pertain to me having a positive alcohol test?
Scott BennerRight.
GillianAnd I, you know, I tell him, I said, yes. I've been in therapy before. Two years ago, I was assaulted by a coworker at my job. I went to therapy. They said I was good, and I graduated out of therapy. I learned how to cope with it, and I moved on.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd he goes, well, you're gonna have to call the physician's health program, PHP, because any student that we have at the school that has any sort of yes answer to these questions, you have to go for further evaluation through this mental health program. So I called these—these people, and I'm answering all these questions, and they're asking the same thing. And then they asked, have you ever been to therapy before? And I said, yes. Told them the exact same reason why. At the end of the phone call, they said, well, instead of you just coming in for, like, a four hour, like, intervention or discussion or therapy group, we're probably gonna suggest that you go to an outpatient rehab center because you've been to therapy for an assault before and you have a positive alcohol screening.
Scott BennerWhat? That—wait. What's going on? Wait. Are you—
GillianAnd I go, what the hell? I don't—
Scott BennerYou're planning to get into medical school. Right?
GillianRight. Right. Right. I'm—I'm—I—we dropped our entire life, both his family and my family back in Ohio, dropped the jobs that we did love to come up here and focus on my dream, and you're telling me this two weeks before school started, mind you.
Scott BennerBecause of Benadryl?
GillianBecause of—well, we'll get further down into this and how it applies to diabetes. At the time, I thought it was Benadryl because my dad, was a medical lab assistant tech in the medical field, and he used to do work on analyzers, run all these tests and everything. And he goes, did you take anything the night before? And I said, Benadryl. And he goes, you might wanna look up and see if that can affect a positive alcohol screening in your urine.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd it can contribute to it much like other things like ibuprofen. High levels of ibuprofen or steroids or anything can throw any of these, like, drug analysis tests off.
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianDidn't know that. Because I've had to take these tests a million times before to work in the medical field for a new job. So I get off the phone, and I call my mom. I am panicked. I am in tears. Just what the hell does a diabetic have any business? Like, the horror stories of not being able to give yourself insulin or anything in a rehab center or mental facility is just horrifying.
Scott BennerGillian, I wanna be clear right now. Like—Yeah. They wanted you to go to a rehab center?
GillianYes. Eight, like, eight hours away for a weekend to monitor me to see if I was detoxing or withdrawing from any substance.
Scott BennerIs happening, are you saying, listen. I'm not an alcoholic. Yes. And this is completely unreasonable. You have no right to ask me about this. Yep. But did you consider doing it because you felt stuck because you moved?
GillianI didn't consider doing the rehab. I knew that it was easier to not to comply up to a certain point and be honest because if I was honest, then there's less that they can, like, get me in—I could—there's less that I can get myself in trouble with because I don't have anything to hide. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not a drug addict. I've never done drugs. You know? I'm an adult. I'm allowed to drink. It's—
Scott BennerI don't know. You guys—your—your whole generation's way too honest. Like, you—you asked me that question, that situation. Have you ever been to therapy? I'd go, no. Because none of your business.
GillianI was just really afraid because we had to send in, like, medical records and stuff of everything. Find—
Scott Bennerit somewhere?
GillianAnd I thought that they could find it because the place I went to therapy with was also the same place my endocrinologist was with.
Scott BennerI love that they're doing this to you, but I've interviewed somebody in the last three years who worked in a doctor's office where they were selling massive amounts of narcotics out of the back of the office. Yeah. At the doctors, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
GillianSo I—my mom is like—my mom and my husband and by the time—by the way, my husband and I were planning our wedding through this, married. They're both like, you need to call the ADA. So I call the ADA, and I get on the phone with them, and they put me through to the state's lawyer, essentially, that works with the ADA. Mhmm. And they're like, well, we'll call you back. And I'm like, no. I need to escalate this because school starts in two weeks, and they're not sure if I'm gonna be able to start. I need to know my rights. I need to know, you know, everything about this because I have never—I've never had to have accommodations for diabetes. Typically, it's just like, oh, yeah. No worries. Just, you know—
Scott BennerYou're not used to work. You're not used to doing any of this at the—at the moment is what you're saying. Okay. Right.
GillianNone of this. Never had to have any issues. And so I call them, and they call back with me, and we get this ball rolling. And they suggest, hey. You should call the base—not the analytical center, but the center that your essentially p was sent out to to be analyzed for all this stuff. And I call them, and I speak with the medical review officer, and it comes to find out that when you're a type one diabetic and your glucose is over a 100 at the time of a urine analysis test, you can pop a false positive for alcohol because of the way things are fermented in your body. I did not know this. And I asked her, I said, can you—well, at first and I forget about this. They were like, nobody reached to you about your results. And I was like, no. I just got an email saying that they were done. I sent them in. And she's like, well, has anybody told you that your—your glucose was two ten at the time of test? Have you ever been tested for type one diabetes? And I just, like, break out laughing. I'm like, I've been a diabetic for twenty one years. And she goes, oh, okay. That's good. And she goes, your glucose was two ten at the time. So there's a very strong possibility that it's not actually alcohol, like, from a bottle, but it's alcohol from your body that caused this positive. You need to tell the school this. So I go through. I tell my lawyer, and I am meeting with these people emails. I have, like, over 200 emails between the psychologist and me about all of these things. And they're like, well, you still need to go to the PHP, like, outpatient program. And I'm like, no. I need to retest. I'm allowed to have a retest. It's federal law that you're supposed to accommodate for me, a reasonable accommodation. So I'm essentially demanding you to give me a blood alcohol test where you draw it from my vein. It's the same amount of testing time.
Scott BennerWas this first one, like, a breathalyzer?
GillianIt was—it was—I peed in a cup.
Scott BennerI went to a center, and I peed in the cups, gave it to them. They checked my temp, and that was it.
GillianOkay.
GillianI said, no. I wanna—I wanna retest. I want a blood alcohol test. And they're like, well, how about this? We're gonna do—they spoke with the psychologist from the school, and the now social worker that I was assigned to at PHP said, oh, well, we're requiring you to do a Peth test. So a Peth test is a test that is very commonly used in the court system for, like, child cases where one parent might be a drug user and the other one's trying to get parental rights for them, and they're trying to prove that they have used in, like, the past four weeks, six weeks.
Accommodation Denials and the Disrupted Pump Loop
Scott BennerAnd Who did you piss off at this school, by the way? Did somebody just hate So,
Gillianbasically, what happened was I questioned it, and I wasn't just—I hate using this term because I know there's some people don't like it, but I wasn't a sheep, and I just wasn't following the rules.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianI wasn't complying to them.
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianI was questioning, and I was fighting for my rights because I was like, it's diabetes. It's not like I have something that's gonna infect every person I ever touch. No. Like, get over yourself.
Scott BennerLet me pause you for a second here. Yeah. I have—just in case people are listening and like, she was probably loaded and making up a story. For a urine alcohol test, a high blood sugar can indirectly lead to a false positive result. What happens is not that the glucose looks like alcohol in the test, it's the glucose spilling into the urine can be fermented by yeast or bacteria after the sample is collected, producing ethanol in the urine specimen. This has been specifically described in diabetes, and glucosuria can set this up, especially when the urine has a lot of glucose. Yeast, bacteria, or contaminations make it more likely. Delay in getting the sample tested can allow even more fermentation and rise the urine ethanol result. This is why positive urine ethanol results by itself can be misleading. Confimatory markers like ETG and TTS—
Scott BennerETS are often used to help sort out true drinking versus sample fermentation. How about that? Mhmm.
GillianAnd I had no idea about any of this.
Scott BennerThe more you know.
GillianYeah. And—and when I told my dad, you know, he used to run all these blood and urine sample tests, he was like, that makes sense, but I never knew that either.
Scott BennerHow about that? That's really—that's what a weird thing to run into. See, your blood sugar was high, and that's why all this happened.
GillianYeah. And I remember having an iced chai latte from Starbucks that morning because I was going to go walk dogs on my part time, and it would keep me, you know, more elevated throughout the dog walk so I didn't crash with a client's dog.
Scott BennerIt's—it's interesting though, isn't it? Because, like, your brain right away goes to, I had Benadryl, and then and then then you get stuck going like, well, I—maybe we did go out to dinner a few days ago. Maybe I had a drink, and then you start sounding like you're lying when you're trying to figure out what's going on, and then they smell you lying, and then this all starts happening even though you were just generally confused.
GillianRight. Yeah. Yeah. Right. They want me to have do this Peth test instead of this blood alcohol test. And I was like, whole—like, pump the brakes here. This is going back six weeks ago in my life. I didn't even know that I had been, like, truly, really accepted into this school because I still was getting all of, like, my shot records. I mean, I was getting everything put together.
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianNo. That's—that's not okay because that's not a—I'm asking for a reasonable accommodation. You were wanting even more out of—
Scott BennerAnd the only accommodation you're asking for is I have diabetes. We've now learned that a high blood sugar could have impacted the test. Just give me a blood test to check again. Yep. That—I mean, that's the accommodation you're looking for?
GillianYeah. That was it.
Scott BennerDid you have any feeling that the person you were talking to was what they call a—a little dummy?
GillianWoah.
Scott BennerWere you caught in one of those situations where you're like, I cannot believe the person I'm talking to is this them? Yeah. No. You don't wanna say. Go ahead.
GillianThey—yeah. Yeah. That—that—that's the—that that's the most, PC way to say how I feel about this entire situation. But what the kicker was was the lawyer that they put me with was also a type one diabetic on the tandem.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd she was like, this is ridiculous. And I'm like, no Like, I've never—thank you for pointing out the obvious, but how can we, like, proceed? So the school's lawyer gets involved with my lawyer, and now we're just starting to talk lawyer to lawyer. And my lawyer is essentially like, if they let this continue and they don't give you, you know, the accommodation or anything, then we're gonna truly pursue legal action. And there's essentially no way that the court's not gonna look at them and be like, you need to apply—you need to comply.
Scott BennerYeah. You're messing this up.
GillianAnd I was providing, you know, all the documents. I was documenting everything. And I was just fearful of, well, what are they gonna do to me on my first day of school? Because I'm supposed to go, and they're not even sure if I'm supposed to go.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd that was my biggest question was, okay. Can we continue all this bullshit on the side? But can I show up on my first day? Because there's no reason that I can't.
Scott BennerIs there no reset button to hit? Like, can you just go everybody, hey. We've gotten way out over our skis now. I have type one diabetes. My blood sugar was high. Here you have the testing lab that says that could throw things off. Let's test me a different way. I'm telling you I'm not a drinker. Right. You know, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?
GillianEssentially. And—and even in my, like, interview, my, you know, my statement to enter the school, I've made it abundantly clear that the reason I wanna do podiatry was because as a diabetic, I feel like this is my true way to give back to my community and to take care of people that need taken care of without being an endocrinologist because I don't wanna be part of that world.
Scott BennerGilly, in the side of that, who cares what your motivation is to become—I don't care if you just wanted to be rich and you don't care about people at all. Still, your right to get into the medical school if you—Right. You applied, you were obviously accepted, and it—it doesn't matter what your motivation is. Yes. This shouldn't be so hard. Right. Yeah.
GillianSo, essentially, they—during some point in this, I can't remember if it was, like, one or two months into school after this had all started, I get a call from—he's not at the school anymore, but I get a call from—I believe he was the assistant clinical dean or assistant—assistant somebody, really top dude in this school. And he's like, it is important that I meet with you, blah blah blah blah blah. And if you don't, there's gonna be serious repercussions. And I'm sitting at lunch, and I get this. And I've told one friend this entire time because I needed somebody at school to know why I was scared to walk into this place every second of the day. And I just start shaking, just absolutely full blown panic attack.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianI'm calling my mom. I'm calling my lawyer. I'm—I'm like, am I even allowed to talk to them? Is this even good to talk to them? And they're both like—my lawyer was like, go talk to them. See what they have to say. I went in, talked with this man, and I find out there is the interim dean of my program and the psychologist also in this room. And I'm the only female in this room. And this discussion continues, and he's like—it just starts talking about this whole situation. He's like, well, why do you feel like you need to have a blood test, but you won't have a test? And I'm like, because it's against essentially my cons—like, not a constitutional right, but my right. You're breaking a federal law here. You're not. You're wanting to take this further than it needs to be, and I'm just asking for a reasonable accommodation. And he's like, well, why do you feel like you need to talk to a lawyer? And I—in a very politically correct way, I looked at him and essentially said, because you're beating around the bush and you wanna play games. I can't get it through to you that I have this right and this is all I'm gonna stop at and I don't need to go anywhere else.
Scott BennerIn the end, you don't care about the PATH test. It's not like it's some very invasive thing. You just were saying, like, this is not necessary, and I shouldn't have to give myself over to this.
GillianYep. And Okay. I actually boot camp, which was the first two weeks of school, it's basically like a test run for medical school. Nothing counts towards your grades.
Scott BennerYeah. Just to make sure you're not gonna pop. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Actually leave one day, and I actually go get the Peth test done to see where my results were. Because at the time of all this, I'm like, I'm done drinking because I'm not gonna give them any reason to potentially do a—
Scott BennerFollow-up or yeah. Yeah. Send you a therapy. By the way, how much when you—and not that this should probably matter, but, like—Yeah. When you drank socially, how much were you drinking?
GillianLike, one or two a night.
Scott BennerOkay. Okay.
GillianAnd it—and it's not like a night. It was Not every night even.
GillianYeah. It was—we would go out on a Saturday night, and I would have one or two at dinner.
Scott BennerYou are my kind of difficult, Gillian. I wanna say that. I—I love that you said, no. I'm not getting the test. You can't make me get it, but I'll get it on my own.
GillianYeah. Yeah. Well, I was like, well, I need to see where this is gonna go.
Scott BennerI don't know if everybody can appreciate this or not, but that is the exact kind of difficult that I am right there. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.
GillianI was like, if I'm gonna fight this, I'm gonna fight this to the end.
Scott BennerI'll do it. You can't do it.
GillianExactly. And so I get the test, and, of course, it comes back negative because it's not been a full six weeks since I haven't had anything.
Scott BennerRight.
GillianWe're in this meeting, and this dude literally looks at me and says, well, I can tell by the way that your body language is you're gonna be a problem during this whole entire thing. And I kinda wanna look at him like, dude, I'm already a problem, and this is just gonna be—I'm just gonna be a bigger problem for—no idea.
GillianI'm willing to take this all the way that I need to take this in order to shut you up because this is so wrong on so many levels.
Scott BennerYeah. I—there's this thing I shared with my wife when we were first together, and she still brings it up. So it must have—it must have really stuck to her. I told her. I was like, you should not with somebody who's willing to go farther than you. Yeah. It really is, like—and it's such a—I don't even know how to put this. Like, I feel like in—for me, personally, I'm a perfect American. I have a right to this. Yeah. We can argue about this to the end of our lives if you want to, but I'm not giving into this even though I don't care about it. And Right. there's something about being forced or told or compelled that I find abhorrent. I would not Mhmm. I would not let it happen either. I'm with you. If he told me I look like I was gonna problem, the first thought I would thought was, well, now I'm gonna be. And Yep. like, yeah, you and I are right together. Sure we would murder each other if we were married to each other. You're handling this Yeah. even though it's causing problems, and I bet you there were off ramps. I bet you there were off ramps for you.
GillianOh, for sure.
Scott BennerI would have done what you're doing too. So—
GillianI considered, like, a million times. Alright. Fine. We're gonna go to this—we're gonna go to this stupid detox program, and I'm gonna just be like, what the hell? And just essentially do my thing and get out and pray to God that I don't die and go into DKA because they refuse to give me insulin or whatever. But in the process of all of this, they're also—they called me in for this meeting to talk about this and to also deny me of any of my accommodations that I requested because the school that I was going to at the time would not allow food or water in the classroom. I—I knew it at the time because I had the PDM. They weren't gonna allow me to have my phone or access to it easily to do my exams. Mhmm. So I was like, hey. I need to be able to check my glucose and give myself insulin if I need to or eat a snack, and I need to have food and water in the classroom because I can't control this without it. I mean, we're in the classroom up to nine hours a day, and we get a thirty minute lunch break. I need to have this. And he goes, well, your—your accommodations are denied. And I go, okay. Like, essentially, well, we're gonna discuss more about this with my lawyer in the backhand. Let me take a mental note of this conversation. Further down this process afterwards, I remember it was like this conversation took about an hour and a half, and they were just like, why won't you just comply? And I am like, I am complying. I'm complying because I'm a person that falls under the ADA, and you're breaking about three of their laws right now. I'm complying. You're not. And I went back to class, and my face is beet red, full of tears, and everybody's just like, what the hell just happened to Gil? Like, Gil doesn't show emotions like this.
Scott BennerMhmm.
GillianI talk with my lawyer. I finished the rest of the day, come home, talk to my lawyer, and she's just like—I don't even remember the next steps because I was so flustered. But, essentially, she discussed with the lawyer, and the lawyer finally got them to agree that I was going to take the blood test and that if it came back negative and this is just—this is not the PEP test, but just the blood test, that if it came back negative, I was going to be scot free essentially. This was not gonna be a problem and that my accommodations would be met. Well, you—
Scott Bennerdropped and you just move forward.
GillianYeah. And I go, alright. I got this three hour window on Wednesday morning. Tell me a time to be at this place. And it got to the point that they wanted me to go to the school's hospital to get his blood test, and I didn't like that because I was like, what if they do something? Like, this isn't below these people to do something to my test or not give me my results or whatever. And my lawyer was like, well, if they're gonna go that far, I mean, this—this is a case that's just gonna be progressively worse because you can always go get another test afterwards to show that you weren't positive—
Scott BennerYes.
GillianAt the same time.
Scott BennerHow long ago was all this?
GillianThis was in twenty twenty four fall.
Scott BennerIs it all worked out now?
GillianYeah. I withdrew from that program because at the time, I was dealing with the lawsuit and in my first year of medical school full time, so my grades weren't the best, but their shenanigans kept going. They dropped everything after my blood alcohol test came back negative like I knew it was. Mhmm. And I had accommodations. I was allowed to leave my phone and PDM within six feet away from me in the classroom and have a juice or whatever I needed. And I just had to show them my screen when I was, you know, bullicing or checking my glucose or whatever. I just had to show them that. And I was fine with that. It was like, that is reasonable.
Scott BennerYeah.
GillianYeah. I understand. But they also—like, they wanted me to send my PDM off for lab testing to make sure that I didn't have any recording devices in it. And I was just like, you are out of this world.
Scott BennerLike Listen, if I can build a recording device in my PDM—
GillianI wouldn't be in med school. I'd be freaking rich.
Scott BennerI might be doing something else, you know. Also, don't I get credit for knowing how to do that? Like, cut me a break. So you think they were just picking back with you at that point?
GillianThey were—they were just—anything that I was trying to gain, it would be 15 steps backwards.
Scott BennerOkay.
GillianAnd it was just absolutely exhausting. So I did end up withdrawing. But in the second semester after everything died down, my professor—we tested in another classroom because all of the campus was testing that day. And my phone was set in the window sill behind me, and I had my phone, like, go on do not disturb. So only my Omnipod and my Dexcom app would light up the screen at 07:55 on the dot for testing days. And it wasn't 07:55 yet, and my screen lit up or something. And my professor walks over, and she picks up my phone and she looks at it, and she sees that I keep getting a text message or something on there. And she carries my phone out of the classroom. And my Bluetooth disconnects, and my pump goes haywire, and it puts me on limited mode. And I start—like, my glucose just starts rising, and I can feel it. And I wasn't allowed to, like, recalibrate my pump or anything that day. And I failed the exam because my blood sugar, I think, at the end of the exam was, like, over 400.
Scott BennerOh gosh.
GillianAnd this was, like, a four hour time. And by—I only failed the exam by one point, which was one question, and they wouldn't let me retake it. Everything was on camera, so I had to reopen the case. And then my lawyer was like, is this really worth going to this school? And I was like, you know what? No. No. It's not.
A New Path in Bedside Nursing
Scott BennerYeah. So what—what ends up happening? Do you, like—did you—do you just drop the whole thing and leave?
GillianAfter they agreed to everything, you know, my—my—they got an actual dean at the time, and the dean was like, I wanna rectify this. Like, you have the empathy. You have—you know, you can go really far in this career. And he finally got my papers for accommodation. I applied for accommodations in May '24, and he finally got my—my accommodation letter on—in February 2025 to protect me. And I was finding out that students were getting extra bonus points on their exams to pass, but I wasn't. And it's just because they were asking or, you know, they had a parent that was in the field that was very high up in the field too. And I hate playing that field, but my—neither of my parents are doctors. And my dad's now a school bus driver, my mom works in a corporate field. I was not getting any sort of, like, "oh, your dad's a doctor" sympathy.
Scott BennerYeah.
GillianLike some of the kids did. And they were curving some kids, like, 10 or 15 points to meet their quota because the school was also not accredited at the time—Okay. and still isn't. So they had to have a certain number of students to pass to meet the accreditation.
Scott BennerYeah. So they can get the accreditation.
GillianThey essentially was kind of forcing me out because they could keep the other students, and it was very apparent that if they weren't gonna give me a bonus, you know, an extra point because this professor carried my PDM without—Yeah. my eyesight me.
Scott BennerI see what you mean. Yeah.
GillianYou know, I don't really wanna be here.
Scott BennerAnd
GillianI was just absolutely just miserable. I think it's funny because my a one c dropped, like, over 2% the entire time of all of this. I was like, that's really funny.
Scott BennerWhat did you end up doing? Like, did you go back to school or you—did you give up?
GillianSo I—I withdrew. I started working at a local hospital, and I found actually that I would love a career as a nurse because I'm at the bedside, and I'm physically helping people. And not all doctors, you know, just sit behind a computer and write prescriptions, you know, or orders all day, but most of them, unfortunately, do. I have decided to go back to nursing school. I start in August and work up to be a CRNA for a nurse anesthetist.
Scott BennerGood for you.
GillianI love my job. I love—you know, I—I joke with my husband that I'm a professional butt wiper, but at the end of the day, I'm the one that is at the bedside holding family members' hands, helping them eat or whatever. I work in a trauma and neuro ICU.
Scott BennerYeah.
GillianAnd I absolutely love it because I'm physically there. I don't have insurance issues telling me I can't do this surgery on a, you know, an older lady that is gonna lose her foot in two days because she doesn't have the right insurance or whatever. And I just—all I have to worry about is that patient in the room or on the floor and get them the help that they need.
Scott BennerWell, I'm glad for you. I'm glad for you you found something that you—that you think you've enjoyed that is not fighting with you the entire time. Also, it's only my butt, but I—I—I wipe a butt at a professional level, I believe.
GillianYeah. Yeah.
Scott BennerYeah. I think I'm good. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.
GillianI mean, we all do it, whether it's our own or others, you know.
Scott BennerCan I ask you, did wiping other people's butts make you change how you wiped your own? Did you learn anything through the process where you're like, you know what I should be? I should be folding this paper instead of crumpling, or did you have any thoughts like that? Not yet. No professional takeaways?
GillianNot—no. None yet. Mhmm. But, you know, it—it does suck because I spent my—a very long time chasing after this career.
Scott BennerWell, yeah.
GillianBut the way that this school was teaching us to act and teaching this—us to have this mindset that, you know, we're god. And I know not every school's like this. I tell my story almost to every person I can get a chance to, especially in the diabetic world because we do have our rights, and we need to—you know, it definitely has changed the way that I have looked at what school do I wanna go to. Are you gonna give me backlash for having accommodations, or are you gonna be cool with it? Because if you're gonna be cool with it, we have no problem. If you're gonna be an asshole about it, we're gonna have a problem because I've already been down this route, and I know exactly what to do.
Scott BennerWell, I'll say this. Even though you didn't win, like, quote, unquote win, sometimes you gotta fight the power. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes you just have to be obstinate and stick up for yourself. And I mean, really, this is advocating on a different level. We're telling people to advocate all the time for themselves with their diabetes. You know?
GillianAnd I think that's all I ever wanted to do was advocate for people, especially for people who—I mean, it—even if for people who don't have the confidence just to stick up for themselves over how they look. You know?
Scott BennerOr whatever.
GillianYeah. Whatever it is. I've never been about bullying because with diabetes and being the only kid at school, I was bullied. But I had the mindset of if I can move a thousand pound horse, I'm not gonna let you tell me and be an asshole of me. It was—I—I think the point where I knew that I won was right after all of the blood testing issues happened. The lawyer actually—the school's lawyer actually came into one of our classes. It was, like, the fundamentals of podiatry, and it was all the not fun stuff, like the paperwork side of being a podiatrist. And he came in and had a class with us. And in front of my, like, 23 other classmates, he looked at me and he said, "I am so sorry for what my aunt and my uncle and my school has done to you" because he was the nephew of the school's dean and owner, essentially. And he goes, "I'm so sorry for what—that we have put you through and what we've done to you."
Scott BennerSo this is a small institution that was trying to get on its feet. And—Yeah. Yeah.
GillianWell—oh, it—it—it's actually the one of the largest for its scope of field. You know, you have your MD and your other types of medical school, and it was the largest. Their other program had, like, over 400 students of it, and they've been a school for years, I think. It's not like they needed this, but I don't know why they did this. I know that the dean that threatened me in my career, he actually lost his medical license because he was selling, cocaine and threatened to kill his girlfriend in front of cops and then was made the dean of the school.
Scott BennerListen. I will tell you that these two things aren't related, but my daughter went to the, Savannah College of Art and Design for a couple of years, and the—the fury that I saw at that place was insane. So—Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not every school's a school. Sometimes—sometimes it's just a business. And, you know?
GillianAnd—and that's what it is is, you know, my dad made—my parents taught me two things. You're never gonna leave high school, and I really hate that my mom is so correct about that because the—that people do. And then my dad was like, everything is a business. Medicine's a business. School's a business. Everything. Like—and if you're attending a school, you're the client. But it's really funny because my husband graduated high school and then immediately went into the military and was deployed in everything. And he's like, "I will never go to school." And, you know, I was just like, "oh, well, maybe—maybe you'll find something that you, you know, would want, like, an associate's degree." And now—and now after I've been through all this, he's like, "that."
Scott BennerI am—
Gillian"never going to school because the amount of bull you had to deal with since in the three and a half, almost four years I've known you, that."
Scott BennerWell, I—I think what I've learned—I don't wanna sound cynical, but what I've learned is that everything on some level is money or power.
GillianOh, yeah.
Scott BennerAnd, like, you know, I've said this on here a million times, but, like, just for the—to kinda button this conversation up. Yeah. The same crap that I saw when my son was playing baseball in Little League when he was seven happened in his senior year of college playing baseball. Yeah. It's all just money and power. Mhmm. So, anyway, I really appreciate you telling me this story. I have to jump. But this was awesome. I appreciate you out there fighting for yourself and that you took the time to then tell other people about it to get in there.
Scott BennerI'm so happy you found something that you enjoyed.
GillianYeah. Well, thank you for letting me join and be a part of this.
Scott BennerNo. It was awesome. Are you kidding? I appreciate you reaching out. How did you find me? How did you—
GillianI listened to you when I worked at Amazon in 2020. We were allowed to listen to podcasts, And I—your podcast was a big role in me switching out of that rebellious teenager phase. Oh. Awesome. And then meeting my husband, definitely. Those two things were a big part of—Yeah. I found a community within your podcast. So I was like, oh, I'm not the only one that goes through this bull—
Scott BennerOh, I'm glad to know that. I had no idea. That's—that's wonderful. Yeah. What's your a one c today? Can you tell me?
GillianMy a one c was 7.6. And when I entered medical school, it was, like, 8.9.
Scott BennerAnd are you still working on it? Like, is it a thing? What's—
GillianI am. I've been in burnout the past couple of weeks, so I've not been—I actually don't have a sensor on because I just needed a break. But I really would like it to be, like, a six point five because I want kids.
Scott BennerPre bolus every one of your meals in a month from—a month from now, it'll be six point five.
GillianYep. Yep. I need to get there.
Scott BennerReevaluate your settings. Pre bolus your meals. That's Okay. That'll get you there.
GillianAwesome.
Scott BennerWell, I'm so happy you did this with me. Thank you so much. You—can you hold on for one second after we hang up here? Excellent. Hold on one second.
Scott BennerThis episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Omnipod five. Omnipod five is a tube free automated insulin delivery system that's been shown to significantly improve a one c and time and range for people with type one diabetes when they've switched from daily injections. Learn more and get started today at omnipod.com/juicebox. At my link, you can get a free starter kit right now. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott BennerDexcom sponsored this episode of the juice box podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom g seven at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox. Okay. Well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me? Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribe in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me or Instagram, TikTok. Oh, gosh. Here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't wanna miss—please, do you not know about the private group? You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. They're active talking about diabetes. Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now. And I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say hi.
Scott BennerHave you tried the small sip series? They're curated takeaways from the Juice Box podcast, voted on by listeners as the most helpful insights for managing their diabetes. These bite sized pieces of wisdom cover essential topics like insulin timing, carb management, and balancing highs and lows, making it easier for you to incorporate real life strategies into your daily routine. Dive deep, take a sip, and discover what our community finds most valuable on the journey to better diabetes management. For more information on small sips, go to juiceboxpodcast.com. Click on the word series in the menu. If you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong Way Recording. Listen. Truth be told, I'm, like, 20% smarter when Rob edits me. He takes out all the, like, gaps of time and when I go—and stuff like that. And it just—I don't know, man. Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? And then I remember—because I did one smart thing. I hired Rob at wrongwayrecording.com.
#1860 ER Match
Scott and Erika explore the psychology of wasted time, identity, and the real-world reach of diabetes advocacy.
Key Takeaways
- Niche Diagnostic Limitations in the ER: Emergency departments are structured as stabilization nets for acute crises ("sick vs. not sick") rather than definitive management zones for chronic diseases. Specialized diagnostic tests—such as GAD antibody panels to distinguish Type 1 from Type 2 diabetes—often take over a week to process and are unavailable as rapid, in-house ER labs.
- Navigating Chronic Endocrinology Shortages: A severe systemic shortage of endocrinologists complicates immediate care for newly symptomatic patients. Navigating extensive insurance verifications can delay crucial specialized appointments unless professional peer networks or alternative clinical channels are utilized.
- Educational Gaps in Standard Medical Curriculums: Traditional nursing schools and general medical tracks focus heavily on acute, short-term stabilization of metabolic emergencies (e.g., fluid and electrolyte replacement in DKA) rather than teaching the detailed, intensive management skills required to safely navigate daily insulin therapy.
- Mitigating Clinical Cognitive Bias with AI: Medical professionals are susceptible to cognitive biases, such as attributing demographic patterns to common clinical conclusions (e.g., assuming an older patient has standard Type 2 diabetes or a recurring UTI). Advanced large language models present a valuable opportunity to handle the cognitive load and provide structured differential analysis.
- The Invisible Mental Burden of Adult Type 1 Diabetes: Managing an adult Type 1 diagnosis demands an immense, constant cognitive load. The chronic anxiety surrounding severe hypoglycemia highlights the profound impact of partner support systems, peer-led education, and targeted community outreach.
Resources Mentioned
- Juicebox Podcast Support Site: juiceboxpodcast.com
- Eversense 365 CGM: eversensecgm.com/juicebox
- US Med Supply Distribution: usmed.com/juicebox (Or call 888-721-1514)
- Tandem Diabetes Care (Tandem Mobi System): tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox
- Audio Production Platform: wrongwayrecording.com
Introduction and On-Site Support Tools
Scott BennerWelcome back, friends. You are listening to the Juice Box podcast.
MattMy name is Matt. Been diagnosed as a type one diabetic for just over one year, and I'm here with my beautiful wife, Chassis.
Scott BennerHey. Do you need support? I have some stuff for you. It's all free. Juiceboxpodcast.com. Click on support in the menu. Let's see what you get there. A one c and blood glucose calculator. People love that. That's actually, I think, the most popular page on the website some months.
Scott BennerA list of great endocrinologists from listeners. That's from all over the country. There's a link to the private Facebook group, to the Circle community, and we have a a fantastic thing there, American Sign Language. There's a great sign language interpreter who did the entire bold beginning series in ASL. So if you know anybody who would benefit from that, please send them that way.
Scott BennerJust go to juiceboxpodcast.com and click on support. While you're there, check out the guides like the prebolising guide, fat and protein insulin calculator, oh gosh, thyroid, GLP, caregiver burnout. You should go to the website. Click around a little bit on those menus. It really there's a lot more there than you think.
Scott BennerNothing you hear on the juice box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. I'm having an on body vibe alert. This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Eversense three sixty five, the only one year wear CGM. That's one insertion and one CGM a year.
Scott BennerOne CGM, one year. Not every ten or fourteen days. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Today's episode is also sponsored by US Med, usmed.com/juicebox. You can get your diabetes supplies from the same place that we do, and I'm talking about Dexcom, Libre, Omnipod, Tandem, and so much more.
Scott BennerUsmed.com/juicebox or call (888) 721-1514. The podcast is also sponsored today by the Tandem MOBI system, which is powered by Tandem's newest algorithm, Control IQ Plus Technology. Tandem Mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox.
ER Medical Careers and a Shocking Discovery
MattMy name is Matt. Been diagnosed as a type one diabetic for just over one year, and I'm here with my beautiful wife, Cassie.
Scott BennerHey, Cassie. How are you?
CassieHi, Scott. I'm doing great. Thank you. I'm Cassie. I'm the wife of a type one diabetic. I'm an ER doctor, and he's an ER nurse.
Scott BennerNo kidding. How long have you been married?
MattI'll give you this one.
Scott BennerDo neither of you know, or are you just trying not to talk over each other?
MattSeptember '22?
Scott BennerThat's not that many years ago, Matt. You should not be saying that like you're not a 100% sure.
MattWe travel a lot. We work nights. Our schedule is crazy, so it takes a lot to just remember the day of the week.
Scott BennerYeah. Well, listen. Watch this. 30 pro. 08/03/1996. Boom. See that?
MattYep. Yep. I've been there and done that, and this life is much better now.
Scott BennerOkay. So you guys meet at work?
MattWe actually did. We worked in a different city years ago, and it it's a funny story. Actually, I'll let Chassie tell it. She's a better storyteller.
Scott BennerGo ahead, Chassie. I'll hear
ChassieWe did, actually. We worked together for several years, and Matt was extremely shy. But we worked together for years in the same hospital and, honestly, never really spoke. I'm pretty friendly and outgoing, so for him to not speak to me tells you just how shy he was and how much he's come out of his shell. But, yeah, we worked together for years and and never really spoke for a very long time. And then now once he finally approached me and we started talking, now he doesn't really stop. So we we've been together for a while now.
Scott BennerYou gotta be careful what you wish for, I guess. Matt, were you married at the time and you weren't talking cause you didn't want to do something inappropriate, or is that not the case? Were you not married when you guys started talking?
MattI was married, previously for, we just talked about time. That was twenty years. Wasn't happy. It was in my head. It was in a tough space. So I kept to myself, kept my head down, just did my job, and just kept trucking on.
Scott BennerYeah. I think he didn't wanna talk to you because he's afraid, you know, he's gonna hit on you while he was married. That's what I'm thinking. But, we'll go with he was quiet. And so when you get married, do you have any health issues at that point?
MattWhen we got married us, I actually had, just been diagnosed with bladder cancer. And, it was at work, and Chassie was actually the one that found it.
Scott BennerNo kidding. Okay. Well, tell me about that first.
MattI had a few years with a little, hematuria, a little blood in the urine. Didn't really think anything of it. Talked to a couple other people because us in the medical field, we don't like to go get seen by other people.
Scott BennerYou know how bad they are at their jobs. You've met them in person. So
MattOh, absolutely.
Scott BennerBut, Matt, I gotta stop you before you even get into this story. Did you say you had blood in your urine for a couple of years?
MattNot it wasn't, consistent. Maybe three times.
Scott BennerYou still married this guy even though that happened? What what's going on?
ChassieI know. This imagine this kind of stubbornness, and now throw on some type one. Spoiler alert. You already know he's type one. Yeah. That kind of personality, and now with type one, it's a it's a fun roller coaster. It's marriage building skills.
Scott BennerI bet you. Okay. I'm sorry. So you noticed as you finally go see somebody, what happens then?
MattYeah. Well, I changed my diaper on my own, so she didn't have to help me with that.
Scott BennerJesus.
MattSo
Scott BennerLook at you doing your part.
MattYep. So, yeah, it was it was sporadic just a couple times over a few years. Didn't think anything of it. Thought it may have been something else minor. We were at work one day, and she was like, you know what? Let me just go ahead and ultrasound you. Not looking for anything specific, just going over, you know, the body system with ultrasound. And, she got down to my bladder, and her eyes just got wide. And, which I was like, what? What? And she was quiet, and she's not a quiet person, which you'll learn. And she just showed me the video, and it was like this softball sized mask in my bladder. The only one thing really comes into your mind when you see something like that. Yeah. I think we had just started dating at that time. We weren't living together. It was just it was still new, so that's kind of an awkward start. So Yeah. I've heard I've heard
Scott BennerTinder dates have gone wrong for much less than this. People will bail on anything.
MattYeah. I wouldn't know. I I never went that route, but, yeah, I couldn't see that being easy one to say, see you. But she had to work with me. So, you know, she made some calls. We got into, urology, went and did blood work, urine, had a CT scan, and all that stuff actually came back negative.
Scott BennerOkay.
MattBut we have a video of this mass and an ultrasound. And, her being the doctor and and knowing these other specialists, they were like, you know, come on in. We'll do a biopsy. I'm not trusting the other results. And, went in for a biopsy that ended up being a complete removal at the time. So I come out from anesthesia, and the doc's like, yeah. It was it was cancer.
Scott BennerAnd what did they take out? I'm sorry. What's a complete removal mean?
MattTerminology wise, Chassie, do you have a term in the neoplasm?
ChassieYeah. So he ended up all of Matt's blood work and lab work, even the CT scan was normal. So I sent my images to a colleague that's urology surgeon, and so he kinda knew what he was looking for when he went in and came out while Matt was still in anesthesia and said, oh, yeah. It's definitely cancer. I've I've got to remove all of this. So, yeah, came out, said it was definitely cancerous, but it was able to be resected at that time, and then we ended up getting pathology back that it was a transitional cell.
Scott BennerSo What's that mean, transitional?
ChassieIt's a type of bladder cancer. Basically, for us, it was not malignant, meaning it had not spread to other organs, but we know that this type of cancer has a thirty percent chance of recurrence in life. So Matt has to be under, obviously, ongoing surveillance.
Scott BennerYeah. I know. So scrutiny.
ChassieWith thirty percent recurrence, that's pretty high. And especially for a guy with no medical problems, no medications, yeah, that was a fun way to start dating.
Scott BennerYeah. I imagine you thought I've either gotta marry this guy or leave and change jobs. Right? You can't you couldn't just go, oh, okay. Well, good luck, and, I'll see you around work. We're not anymore.
MattI'm glad she's stuck around.
Scott BennerYeah. No kidding. That's lovely. So is there damage to the bladder, or what's the recovery like?
MattEvery year, I've gone for one or two cystos where they go and take a look. I actually just went last week and got my five year clearance. The urine was clear from any cancerous cells, and the scope inside was completely negative. I've gotten some chemotherapy initially, and, luckily, it took. So right now, it's just maintaining urine and a scan, I think, once a year now. But, yeah, everything is gone. No issues. I'm not dribbling everywhere. You know? It's it's pretty good as far as that goes.
Scott BennerThat a good sign, finally. Yeah. You keep going, you are gonna find her aligned one day.
MattYou know, she's she's dear
Scott Bennerdiary, he's dribbling. I'm out. So I did my best. Wow. And then tell me when that happened again, what year?
MattThat was, we found it in September 2020. Normally, it was under 50 and smokers or who was prevalent with. And at the time, I was 42. And, just to preface that, I was a a firefighter paramedic for a long time, and I worked on the hazardous materials team. And, we think it was a it's from the the foam that we use
Scott BennerOh, really?
Mattto fight fires as an environmental exposure.
Scott BennerMatt, I gotta tell you. I worked in a paint shop in a sheet metal place for years, and every day that I don't die, I'm pretty amazed, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As a kid, I was just around I was just around a lot of shit in the air, and, you know, we didn't wear mat. Nobody did anything. You just walked in and worked.
MattOh, no. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott BennerSo Yeah. I can't believe I don't have a problem from something like that.
The Sudden Onset of Type 1 Diabetes
Scott BennerHow long after this process does the diabetes appear, and how do you figure that out?
MattWell, I was good. Because it was September, '24. I had kinda stress really left the job here where we live now, And, we travel a lot, so we were preparing for a trip. But prior to the trip, I had been to a concert with a friend of mine, and there was, like, a beer tasting event, like, three hours prior to the concert.
Scott BennerMhmm.
MattSo we go around the room. We're drinking all this beer, and I know I everything was fine right then because I wasn't peeing all the time. So drank all that beer, you know, peeked, like, maybe once or twice, watched a concert. Everything was good. Mhmm. And then we went to Turkey in November, and I'll just say that I may have had some touch up work that some people may do with turkey every now and then.
Scott BennerYou get your eyes pulled back a little? What'd you do?
MattJust a little just a little bit. Just a touch.
Scott BennerNice.
MattAnd, after that, they give you some steroids after I didn't realize at the time, but I my vision was getting blurry, my close vision, but my distance was fine. And I just had LASIK surgery done the year before, and my vision was perfect. So I contacted them, said, hey. My vision's a little blurry because I give you some medicine. And, they're like, oh, it should should go away. So I said that was November. And then sometime after that, I just started, like, peeing all the time. And I I drink a lot of water. I work out all the time. Mhmm. So it's normal for me to, you know, pee.
Scott BennerYeah.
MattThis was just ridiculous. I I couldn't sleep and working night shift and trying to come home to sleep, and you're up every thirty minutes to an hour going to the bathroom. Like, what?
Scott BennerSo you're peeing, like, on the hour almost?
MattIt was almost hourly. I'll drink a a gallon of water at work every shift, and I'll drink a gallon when I'm home. So it's normal, but this was to the point where I'm like, what the you know? Right. This is unreal.
Scott BennerAnd did you think, I'll just ignore this for a few years, and then if it gets bad enough, I'll have my wife look into it?
MattAbsolutely. Absolutely.
Scott BennerNo. What do you do with that information once you realize it's like, you know, this isn't normal?
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MattWell, my my vision got really bad, and it was it was pissing me off.
Scott BennerYeah.
MattI'm like, you know, these are kind of diabetic symptoms. I'm like, there's no way in hell that I'm diabetic. And so it goes on and on, and it's been, like, three months. And, like, I couldn't leave the house without, like, stopping in a parking lot or, you know, I had to plan everything. It just it was so ridiculous that Cassie finally talked to me, and she's like, let's go to urology. That's the only doctor I'd seen here.
ChassieIt's true. It's true. But that is the only physician Matt had, and that was only because he had bladder cancer, and we were out So of that's the only place I could get him to go because I agree. These are all screaming. Yeah. He's not the stereotypical of what you think of, and that was such a hard barrier in his head to get through. He's like, I know I have the polyuria. I'm peeing all the time. I know I have polydipsia. I'm drinking water all the time. Mhmm. And he just made, you know, excuse after excuse thinking, no. It can't be. No. It can't be. No. It can't be. And so and he was suffering for three, four weeks probably, just miserable. And then when I finally said, Matt, you look ill. Mhmm. I mean, you you don't look well. Matt is a I know this is a podcast, but Matt's a big guy. I mean, he works out. He looks big and buff.
Scott BennerYeah. Matt, you're a robust person. Like yeah.
ChassieHe's thick.
Scott BennerYeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
ChassieI mean, he is he is extremely muscular, extremely fit. And, Scott, he looked sick. I mean, he had lost 25, 26 pounds in two months unintentionally. And with his history of bladder cancer, that's always a cancer diagnosis.
Scott BennerRight. But, Matt, tell me something. When you think diabetes, can you kinda go through the psychological thing that stops you from wanting to—I know nobody wants to think they're sick in general, but why is diabetes, like, even a bridge too far beyond that? Because people talk about it all the time. I'm wondering if you can put it into words.
MattWell, first off, type one had had never even entered my my mind. Unless you have a a connection to type one, I think it does you just don't even think of it.
Scott BennerOkay.
MattYou think type two, you think, you know, metformin. You think, oh, I gotta lose weight. I've gotta work out and get healthier, and I was already healthy. So to me, I'm like, there there's just no way. And not to put a negative, you know, light on it, but I'm like, if it is type two, what is there that I could change in my lifestyle? Because I'm the pickiest eater. I don't have a sweet tooth. Mean, my BMIs are are both because the height and weight, you know, that I don't go by that. And, because if it was just taking metformin or something like that and working out, there would be no problem. But I'm just stubborn, and I was like, there's there's no way this is gonna go away. And, when it was brought to my attention how much weight I had lost, and I just I'm not one that would weigh myself all the time, but it ended up being, like, thirty to forty pounds, you know, after the three months. And I didn't see it in my face till I started going back and looking at pictures, and I was like, it really got to me. Right. And I was like, okay. Let's let's go ahead and and get checked out.
Scott BennerAt that point, are you thinking I'd prefer this to be diabetes because I don't want it to be cancer? Do you have to have that thought?
MattAbsolutely.
Cognitive Bias and ER vs. Specialized Medicine
Scott BennerYeah. I would imagine. Also, let me just say here for everybody who who follows me on Instagram and knows this, but I'm having, my office—I'm having an office built in my basement. And so I'm doing my best, but there are gonna be times that you're just gonna hear banging in the background. And I don't think there's anything—we'll just have to use this as a time stamp in the podcast for when Scott got his own office finally and moved out of this tiny room making the podcast. But I'm doing my best not to speak while it's happening so editors can take it out later. But every once in a while, you're not gonna hear it, but I'm gonna hear it. That's gonna be stuck in my head.
ChassieOn this episode, you can blame me. I was beaten mad in the background for being such a stubborn patient. So for this episode, it was me.
Scott BennerIn fairness, every physician I've spoken to, nurse—you guys are all the same. Like, you should all have to walk around the hospital with a shirt on that says, do as I say, not as I do. You you know? So I take how it happens. Tissue urologist, do it or do you have to go find a doctor to actually give you a diagnosis?
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MattWell, first thing they do, like, every visit, you go get the urine sample. Oh, by the way, I think the banging you hear is every time I say, his chassis hitting No.
Scott BennerGot it. Trust me. I have weird connector words. It took me years to stop them. I used to have stickies on my monitor with words and, like, lines put through them because I would use connector words when I was thinking. I've learned just stop talking until the next word comes to you. It's an easier way to handle it, but don't worry about it. You guys are doing great. Don't think anything of it.
MattOkay. Good. Alright. So I give the urine sample. We go in the office, and the urologist comes in. He's a great guy. He goes, you've got sugar in your urine. And just like stomach sunk, he's like, it it's diabetes. Just like, you know, playing his name, it's diabetes. Mhmm. And still, you don't think type one. Right. It just doesn't occur. So he was like, let's go ahead and and refer you to, you know, local endo. So we leave the office, go ahead, immediately call on the way home, and it was just a garbage call. It's like, well, let—give us your insurance information. We'll call you back next week if, you know, your insurance works with our office. That just wasn't good enough for Chassis who, luckily, she did stick with me. And so loving and caring, she's like, let's find some other way.
Scott BennerYeah. Chassie, you—there was not a half a second where you're like, I could have bailed back at the cancer thing. Well, Matt, what is it about you? You're so delightful that none of these health issues run her off.
MattI just smell really good, I guess. I don't know.
Scott BennerIt's the pheromones.
ChassieAin't that terrible? I'm a forever doctor at work, at home. Like, I'm—I'm attracted to my patient, my husband. Like, I get to doctor at work. I doctor at home. I'm really committed to the field is what I'd like to think.
Scott BennerI thought some guy must have just been really terrible at Chassis in a former life, and she's like, this is a nice person. I'm sticking this out. Yeah.
ChassieYou're so good at this game, Scott.
Scott BennerOh, okay. Alright.
MattI'm a long term study. That's all it is.
Scott BennerShe's like, I can't wait to see how this turns out. What a funny way to think of yourself. She's just really, like, you know, interested in what's happening. I listen. I've said over and over again, I I'm only still married because my wife wanted our next kid to look like her first kid. She was probably like, how am I gonna move all this stuff out of the house by myself? You know what I mean? It's a lot of effort. Exactly. So wow, man. So you get in with somebody quicker than a week? Did she, like, shake down some person she knows and make them see you? What happened?
ChassieSo it's one of the things that is so frustrating in health care. This is just a specific—our niche, obviously, with you is—is type one diabetes and for our diabetic patients out there. And I think we all can agree no matter where we're listening to this from, there are not enough endos. I wish that the world and the diabetic populations everywhere had more endocrinologists available. And even here, we live in Orlando, and there's just not enough to keep up with the patient needs. And so this was yet another example, and we were living it of how, you know, you need to see endocrinology, and you just can't get in.
Scott BennerYeah.
ChassieAnd Matt was, again, he looked so unwell that I—I truly thought it was cancer, not diabetes. And so he was becoming more symptomatic and more symptomatic, and we obviously needed further testing. And he had no medications that he was taking for anything, and he looked so unwell. And he had to be unwell for me to even get him to the urology appointment. And I thought, let me reach out to my colleagues. And so there's a women's physician group that several of us are involved in in Orlando, and honest to goodness, I just called in a favor. Yeah. It was nothing more than just the graciousness of a colleague saying, oh gosh. Absolutely. I'll see him tomorrow.
Scott BennerSo, Chassie, if that wasn't possible, I mean—and with your background and what you do for a living, like, he's a prime candidate to go to the ER. Right?
Chassie100%. And that's exactly where I would have taken him, where we would have ended up, and the only place that he would have been able to at least be thoroughly evaluated and keep him from being very, very ill.
Scott BennerCan I ask you a question, like, while we're on this subject here?
ChassieOf course.
Scott BennerYou're an ER doctor, and you have a patient in front of you who you love who looks like you should go to the ER. But you were still like, let me see if I can get him to another doctor. What's the disconnect there? Like, how come everybody who comes on here talks about the ER and like, I mean, do you know I took my mom to the ER three times before someone found her cancer? They one time imaged her and said, this is a UTI, but she's so full of urine. It's hard to tell, so we're gonna drain her out and, blah blah blah. But they imaged her first. The urine blocked the scan. You couldn't see the uterine cancer she had. Right? And then they were like, oh, she should—I mean, three times till somebody found a mass that was huge. Like, how is that possible? I know you're a good doctor. Okay? I've met you. You seem like a reasonable person. What happens? Like, where—where's the disconnect in something like this? Like, how come you didn't just put him in a car and drive him to the ER? There's gotta be a reason, unless I'm thinking into it too far.
ChassieNo. I'm so glad you asked that, and it's something that I think in the ER that we take for granted because, oh my gosh, every single patient all you want to do is everything for every patient. You know, we in the ER, remember, there is no specialty.
Scott BennerMhmm.
ChassieYou have to know everything from head to toe. I have this rash on my scalp. I'm vomiting. My baby has a rash. I've lost 30 pounds this week. And, again, I think most of us in the ER, we just wanna fix and cure everything, and the problem is that there's a saying in emergency medicine that we're a jack of all trades and a specialty to none.
Scott BennerMhmm.
ChassieAnd, unfortunately, I wish that the ER could be a one stop shop for everything. That's just not how emergency medicine works. And the key to an emergency department is truly emergency things. Now these aren't things that necessarily aren't important and don't need further care, but these are emergent diagnosis. Like, in your population, DKA, those are all emergency things. But even something as simple as sending labs to actually test for, say, antibodies in your type one, not possible Yeah. in the ER. A biopsy for your mom's mask, not possible in the ER. And so the ER is this huge catch net for every single ailment, pain, symptom, rash, bump, lump, symptom of I don't feel good, anything. And you do as much as you possibly can, and then we really have to rely on our specialty colleagues for all of these higher level specific tests to kinda get you in the right direction. Now if I could be an OB GYN and an endocrinologist and a urologist and everything, I promise you, I would. I just am specifically trained in emergent situations and narrowing things down and being as thorough as I possibly can. And, again, referring for follow-up or consulting on my colleagues for those further evaluations and diagnoses and testing. Like, for example, no ER doctor can order antibodies for testing the difference between type one and type two.
The Limits of Clinical Tracking and Generalist Training
Scott BennerBut why not? Because what it feels like is that you're involved in a a special kind of medicine that sort of like if this, then that. If my arm's falling off, you're the right place to go. Right? Like, that kind of thing. But if I have, you know, diabetes, I'm gonna send you to endo. But then we all know that when you say, well, you're gonna have to go to endo, like, they sent Matt out, and he called immediately and got told, you know, we'll talk to you next week. And, like, you know, if he was in DKA and you guys didn't have the background you have, like, you don't know where that would have ended up. He would have probably ended up back in the ER, but then DKA would have made them say, oh, he has type one diabetes. Right?
ChassieExactly. Okay. Mhmm. Exactly.
Scott BennerFrom your perspective, like, what's the—because everyone says it's broken. It can't be fixed, but it doesn't seem that difficult to fix. I don't know. It feels like the map we use to get to the end is just a little skewed. You know what I mean? Like, let me give you an example and see if this goes anywhere. I had to take Arden into the hospital, I don't know, like, last year. She had an infection. And I was going through her symptoms with an AI model. And I had all the possibilities in front of me of what I thought was gonna happen, what could possibly happen. And the ER doc would talk to her, disappear in the back, come back again, and then talk to me. And it felt like she was reading the chat GPT answer that I had to me, which really made me think that she went in the back and did the same thing I did. And maybe not. Maybe just her training and her if this, then that, like, just comes out that way. And I it's possible she was just a great doctor. Like, I have no idea. But my point is that if she and I came to the same conclusion and I have no training, why can't that thing say, hey. This could be type one or type two diabetes. We get to order this lab, or we can contact Endo who could give us a script right now digitally. Like, why does that stuff not happen? Like, why is it always go wait and maybe you'll get sicker? Or if you don't, good for you. Like, why does it work that way?
ChassieSo for example, let's use specifically since this is the Juice Box podcast, for example, type one testing. So there's only a couple of laboratories in the entire country that can test for GAD antibodies, which is one of the main antibodies that we look for to distinguish type one and type two. Right? Mhmm. So even if I'm standing in front of you and I have your blood and I send it off, that test takes over one week to complete.
Scott BennerOkay.
ChassieIt is not a test that exists in, well, any hospital I've ever worked at, and I've worked in many. Tel—and so a lot of these diagnoses that we experience are really are they're very niche. These are things that take days to weeks to diagnose. And so that's one of the great things about the ER is that I hope nobody ever gets sick, but there's always a doc there twenty four seven to help get you through those things. And if if there's ever a gap in between, you know, managing you outpatient in the comforts of your own home, then that's when we utilize the emergency department and inpatient if we need to admit you. Now here's the thing. I knew Matt was not in DKA. I see DKA for years. I can look across the room and go, oh, boy. That's—oh, they're in DKA. And I knew that wasn't Matt. So did I know Matt didn't feel well? Yes. Did I know he needed other testing? Yes. Did he need to sit in a hospital room for days to a week until we get these answers?
ChassieNo. No. Could we manage this outpatient? Absolutely. And if he needed to go to the ER in the meantime, even temporarily to be discharged, you know, back home and still wait, then that was an option. But I am I was very fortunate to know that, yes, Matt, we don't have all the answers. No. Matt doesn't feel good. Yes. We need to keep going. We're on a journey here to get diagnosed, treatments, things like that. But I also knew that we could always go twenty four seven anytime, anywhere if we needed to.
Scott BennerIt would happen.
ChassieHe just didn't need to at that point. He just felt bad, and we were impatiently waiting for follow-up and testing.
Scott BennerYeah. Okay. I have a question. Like, if you had somebody with a 400 blood sugar and you gave them some insulin in the ER, brought their blood sugar down, took the insulin away, and it went right back up again. Isn't that a pretty good sign? It's type one and not type two? No. No? That wouldn't work?
ChassieNo. I wish. Oh my goodness. You know how finicky diabetes is. I wish it was that simple, but no. And that's honestly, I think that the biggest takeaway as a physician with your patient—and I speak for me, but I hope I speak for all of my physician colleagues out there—is that's why it's so important just to have healthy conversations with your patients to say, hey. You know, it looks better now, but this can go on, and this can go up. It can go down. And if you're not feeling well—and Matt can attest to this. I tell my patients. If you're not feeling well or if something happens, it's okay. Just come back. I don't want you out there suffering and being miserable. Even if I can't do everything you need here from the ER, I don't want you out there in the world alone or being sick. And if you need something, that's okay. Our plan b is always you come back here. This is always a safe space. This is a safety net for you. And if we need to admit you to keep care going on, that is absolutely fine. I hope you never need to be admitted to the hospital. But if that's what it takes, then that's what we do.
The Endocrine Shortage and Individual Motivation
Scott BennerCan I ask you why—why do you think that there aren't more just diabetologists? Like, just people who are not full blown endos, but, like, just handle diabetes. If if diabetes is so prevalent in the population, why aren't students wanting to be doctors who take care of it? Is it because the prevalence is mostly type two and that people don't seek treatment until they're—is it a money thing? Can you not make money doing it? Like, I'm wondering why it feels like that's a thing everybody would be rushing to do because there's a need—you know, the need's there, and the need would translate to business.
ChassieOh, the need is definitely there. Yeah. And, again, this is the Juice Box podcast. So our niche here is endocrinology and type one and type two diabetes, but there's also so many different disease processes out there that, you know, sometimes just grab your heart as a doctor or a nurse even or when you're young and your grandma goes through x, y, or z. And I do. I think all of us just have these different life moments that kinda draw you into where you end up in life and your job. Like, even with you, with Arden. I mean, look what Arden has brought you. That's led you down this path. And if she had had a, you know, a different process or struggled with a a different disease, I think that you'd probably be really passionate and be the next expert in x, y, or z.
Scott BennerSomething different. Yeah. Yeah. I take your point.
ChassieThat's the beauty of life is that experience is a great teacher. And I would like to say that, my gosh, I have an extra, extra deep place in my heart now for all of my diabetics, type one and type two. You know? Because when you live through something, it does. It makes you passionate about it, and it makes you wanna be more and learn more. And so I'm thinking that with the prevalence, like you're saying, surely there's so many young nurses and young doctors out there who are being affected by type one and type two diabetes, and they are. They're going to be passionate about this and go into these fields.
Scott BennerA great insight. I appreciate that. Seriously, that is a really great insight. Because I just—I always think of it as—I mean, I know everybody's—you're hoping your doctor is one of those people who just grew up thinking, like, I wanna help people. Some of them grew up with, like, I'd like to try to make some money. And so, like, why would those people not flood to where the need is because the need is billable? But it's just—I don't know. It's a real—it's very interesting. And that endo shortage is across the country
ChassieIt is.
Scott Benneras far as I can tell from talking to people.
ChassieIt is. And it's a career that's too long for you to just do it for the paycheck, I think. I'm sure there are people in every specialty or every field in the whole world that can do it for the paycheck, but medicine is a tough job if you don't actually really like what you do and like your patients. And Yes. you I think as a patient, you probably want the doc that enjoys that specialty and enjoys that niche because, again, it's just a win win all around.
Scott BennerMatt, you feel that with what you do? Like, if people are amenable, the job's easier?
MattOh, without a doubt. Okay. Alright. Well, you wanna treat everybody the same, and you normally can. But, of course, you get attitude and you have, you know, demands and, you know, it kinda—you keep a happy face and you keep doing your job the best you can and don't wish any ill will. You just wanna help people in in our field move on to the next one because they're definitely lining up waiting to—
Scott BennerBut that attitude stretches. That makes the day a little longer.
MattYeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. I do wanna say with as far as education goes, I actually recently looked into becoming a diabetic. I'm going blank on the name of the title of the certificate is.
Scott BennerLike a diabetes educator?
MattEducator. Yes. And when I looked into it and the time it takes and, obviously, type one is at the forefront of my mind. And I looked into the certificate, and it was gestational. It was type two. It was type one. And to me, I thought it's too much to try to be a specialist at all of them. I'd rather be a specialist at one of them. And I think type two has a pretty good handle right now, but I just I need to be an advocate the most I can for type one. I've joined all these research groups, and I do wanna give a shout out to my endo, doctor Gujdraw. I've referred, like, four or five people to her just because she is so amazing. And we even have to drive to get to her, and I tell people she's worth the drive. Yeah. Just because she came from an educational background and teaching background, and I was blown away by the care I received by her. And I'd never met her before in my life, and she had this plan written down and explained things to me in ways that I've never known. Because coming from a paramedic background, you learn really just diabetes, like, one form diabetes. You're like, high or low. Mhmm. From an emergency standpoint, if it's low, you bring it up. If it's high, you bring it down. Sure. And it's like, are they conscious? Are they unconscious? Do they have a gag reflex? Can you just give them something to eat? You have to start not being give them d 50. That was my background. And then getting into nursing, I took a bridge program that was paramedic to RN. And I I can't speak for all courses and all schools, but I don't remember anything diabetic related. And you hear DKA and just your acidosis and this and that, and and DKA is not really a a sugar issue. It's a fluid issue and electrolyte issue, which leads to arrhythmias, and that's where your death comes from. And one of the reasons I didn't go to the ER is not that Jesse didn't say, hey. Do you wanna go? It was all on me. But I wasn't vomiting. You know? I wasn't worried about ketones. I—I stay in a ketonic state right now because of the way I eat. Yeah. I try to stay as low as low carb as possible. And, you wanna make sure your potassium is right, your fluid's right, and I take multivitamins and I drink water. So I wasn't worried about DKA. I mean, no matter how high the sugar got, I think I kept myself out of it. But, that's just the specialties are—I'd rather be a master at one even though—and I am an ER nurse, and you do learn a little bit about everything. But I wish there was more training on on diabetes when you go through the, you know, the RN course. I think it's because they're specialties like endo and these diabetic educators that they don't really lean on it.
The Future of Diagnostics and Personal Impact
Scott BennerDo you guys wonder if diagnostic stuff is gonna go more towards a computer?
MattI think it is. It may be beneficial, but it may not. Like you're saying, imaging was missed on your mother. I've seen it time and time again. When you have imaging done in the ER, it gets sent off to the radiology, and, normally, it's not read in house. And we wait for the radiology, or that's their specialty to come back and say, hey. You know, this is what I see. And I've seen—just in chassis, I've seen time and time again where she looks at an X-ray, she looks at a CT that has a a negative read by the radiologist, and she's like, there's something there. There's just something there. So I called back and say, you know, of course, as polite as possible, can you take a look at this? And, you know, this is what I think I see. This—this is your spectrum, but this is what I'm seeing. And they've said, oh, yes. And, actually, in my case, that actually happened with my CT with my bladder cancer. They came back as negative. And I'm so thankful that I had her just with this video of the ultrasound to say, no. There's—there's something here. Yeah. And the call was made back to that radiologist who was very apologetic and, you know, made an addendum to the CT read. And, of course, now there's something there after it was removed. So I—I could be pissed off, and that makes me think how many people have missed, you know, diagnoses. And, it—it's a—it's a sad state of medicine there.
Scott BennerThe thing that happened with my mom is that what would happen is basically the mass would block her bladder. Her bladder would fill up. She'd be in pain. She'd go to the ER. They'd image her, say, oh, her bladder's full, and then say, this must be a UTI, and then, you know, drain her, and then everything's fine. Then she's okay again. She goes back, and this happened again and again. But every time it would happen, someone would say, her bladder's full, so we can't really see what's going on. Like—but nobody ever said, so maybe we should scan her after we do it again. That didn't happen. I had to be the one to say that on, like, the fourth visit. I finally said, why don't you get the urine out of her and then scan her? That's it. And somebody went, oh, okay. And then they did that. So, I mean, I don't know what I'm talking about. I had to see it three separate times before it occurred to me to say something about it. But they knew each time that the full bladder was a problem, but then nobody did anything about it. They just said it. Oh, that was a problem, and then moved on again. And I assume it's too many people, not enough resources, people are tired, probably have an—you know, less trained people because it's moving so quickly. I realize there's a lot of big issues. I mean, these things must happen over and over again. Like, wouldn't a trainable AI model who you're teaching if this, then that could then figure out, oh, by the way, drain the bladder first. Instead of asking humans to hold so much information in their head, like, if you couldn't just have it that way and be a little more directive for—not that you wanna take the human part out of it, but just as a reminder, because how are you supposed to remember? Like, you know, Chastity, you said about it a little while ago. Like, you can't be great at everything. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, emergency medicine. So wouldn't it be cool if a voice came from over your shoulder and said, hey. Don't forget this or look at this real quickly? I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like that's gonna happen.
MattThat would be great. I—I always tell people we're practicing medicine. We're practicing, and, one day, we get it right. Yeah. Yeah. Just to keep it a little light. Yeah. But I do know for diagnostics, like, if they're doing ultrasound in the bladder, they want the bladder full because they get a better, you know, view. Mhmm. And it sounds like her bladder being full was causing pressure, causing more pain, but they absolutely should have scanned, you know, before and after. It's just kinda follow the steps, and they—they should have gotten there without you saying that. But, you know, it's situational and—
Scott BennerIf people jump to conclusions, old UTI. Right? Yes. Overweight type two. Like, instead of just doing the steps in between, they make a leap. And that leap, you know, maybe sometimes works out and sometimes doesn't. But I don't It's when it doesn't work out is when it's scary.
ChassieNo. I—I'm so glad you brought that up, and that is a constant challenge probably in any field, but especially in medicine that you'll have a cognitive bias because your brain is trying to pull in all this information and make connections. You know, we're the human body. We are so much more intimately connected than we even realize. And you try to make associations like you said, old lady, UTI. I bet that's it. And it's a beautiful thing of the brain. It's amazing that we can take all of these random data points and put them all together and come up with this. Not even in medicine, just in life. You take all of these data points and make sense of them. You know? And it's so important, and it's so humbling to be in medicine to unwire your brain and to think outside of the box and to think, oh, no. No. No. No. Disassociate that. Let's don't think about that. What if it isn't that? What if it's this, or could it be this? And it's—it's definitely a humbling part of medicine that I think you work so hard to learn and make associations and train and—and—have keywords and think, oh, gosh. I bet it's this. And yet you have to be so diligent to make sure that you don't associate all of those things, that you keep taking a step back and taking a step back and taking a step back as you're trying to dive into your patient and better understand them. And that's one of the beauties and one of the most frustrating parts of medicine is making it make sense and then taking nothing and making that make sense as well. So it is. It's a humbling part. And I think to your point, that AI definitely has a place in medicine and the rest of the world. Just anything that could help you be a better physician, a better nurse, a better podcaster, you know, a better investor, anything like that to make the human world better is fantastic. And there's definitely a role in taking some of the cognitive load out of medicine with AI, and there is. Yeah.
Scott BennerWhen I first started making this podcast, I'd just be angry about it. Like, why didn't they know? How come they didn't? Like, that kind of thing. But the more I've done this for years and years and spoken to more and more doctors and people who are actually in that situation, my takeaway is just that—I mean, there's too much information for one person to process. And that's why we talk about specialty all the time because if you put somebody in a unique enough position, you can maybe make them enough of an expert where they're gonna see it most of the time. I would have been alright with that right up until a couple of years ago when I realized somebody could just take a large language model for endocrinology and train it on everything that human beings have ever known about it. And then you're at the point now you can talk to it. You could say, here are my symptoms, and it can point you in a direction. And then blend that with the human artistry of, I've seen this before or I've—you know, somebody said that to me one time, like, that kind of stuff. I just think that we're asking too much of people. And in a situation where if you make a mistake, somebody has a really significant—you know, from death to, you know, injury and pain or whatever. I just think that we've reached our limit for what we can do. And the information's out there. Why not let something who's got the ability to hold more ideas in their head and draw more connectors? Like, why not let it do it? It makes sense to me. So
ChassieI love that. And I'll even interject and say, that's a beautiful metaphor for emergency medicine that sometimes we've done all we can do. Like, you know, let's go to the specialist. Like, let's keep going. Like, let's keep going. Let's figure this out. Because, yeah, you do. You tap out in what you can do and what you wanna do. And I don't know. That really hit home with what you just said about feeling like in the emergency department, that you wanna do everything in the world and you wanna fix everything. And how do we take all that information and—and still keep going and take the next step?
Scott BennerWell, sometimes you just get to the end of your knowledge. You know? Like, everything that's gonna occur to me has occurred to me. You know? Maybe I can sleep on it or think about it, but that's gonna be too late for a person in the ER. Right? Like, and that job you guys have already talked about. It's tiring. Weird hours, weird shifts, people yelling at you. Like, it's not even—it's nowhere near a utopic situation where you could sit and think. Maybe I'm out of my mind, but it—it—this seems obvious to me. So we'll find out what's gonna happen, but it makes a ton of sense to me.
ChassieNo. I love it. I don't think that any forward thinking physician that just wants the best for their patients or any forward thinking nurse that just wants the best for their patients, I don't see how we—none of us would not be asking for more help. You know? If it's a better outcome for the patient, that's kind of what we're all here for anyway.
Scott BennerYeah. Right. Who cares how you get to it? Somebody's better off, they're better off.
MattI do wonder how that would be looked at. Like, you said, you use an AI model and you felt like the doctor went back and read the same model. And if it was common knowledge that, hey. We're using computers or AI to come up with a game plan, Are they gonna say, oh, this idiot just went back and googled, you know, my symptoms? At what point does it become, hey. This is the way things are done or, hey. They just don't know what they're doing and they're—you know, I could have googled it.
Scott BennerYeah. I think the answer is my kid's kids will be okay with it. It's a generational thing. You're gonna—Yeah. I'm sure. You're gonna have to live through it. You know what I mean? So but it doesn't mean that they'll be right. By the way, I didn't—I was kind of comforted by it, to be perfectly honest. Like, you know, I mean, this wasn't some great detailed thing that I was figuring out about Arden, but, like, I was able to take her symptoms and say to myself, like, I think it might be this, but I don't wanna jump to a conclusion. Let me ask the model. The model came back and said, well, it could be this, this, or this. It most likely is this. And that made the most sense to me. I did not mention it to the doctor. And then, like I said, she came back. It felt like she was reading me back the same list I had in my pocket. And And see—you know—
ChassieThat's a great doctor right there. That tells me that, yes, I wasn't there, but I'm gonna have faith in my colleagues out there. And, yes, that means that we are all on the same page, that we are all getting good information in, and you're getting good information out.
Scott BennerI felt the same way. Like, I felt like she was older, but not old old. And I thought she's probably been doing this forever. And the same if this, then that ran through her brain. She started with that, and she came up with the idea. I—I thought it was awesome, but it also proves out that if a human knows the entire map to the diagnosis, then we can write it down one time, and then the model can go find it too. I see all the other reasons where people's egos would get hurt by this or, you know, people are gonna say, well, why would I be a doctor if I'm just gonna be a button pusher? And, like, I mean, I can see all the—there's a lot of possibilities for where it could go wrong. But I don't know. I just see it as potentially valuable and something somebody should be looking into. You know? Because you guys are terrific. You love your jobs, and, you know, it'd be great if you could have more, I don't know, bullets in the gun when you're doing it. Matt said something earlier. Made me think of this. Arden's friend is in nursing school right now, and she just called me in the middle of the day. And she said, hey. We just had our diabetes lecture and everything. And I was like, right. And she goes, we're done.
Scott BennerAnd I said, okay. She goes, well, I'm not gonna learn more about diabetes. And I said, okay. And she goes, I couldn't keep Arden alive with what they taught me today. Wow. But she only knew that because she grew up with Arden. Yeah. So she was stunned. She's like Wow. I've said this on the podcast a few times because I really want people to hear it. Like, she's like, well, what else didn't they tell me about? And now I know all the stuff they didn't tell me about, and it freaked her out. And I said, listen. If you really wanna be freaked out, wonder about all the other things you thought you learned front to back that you completely think you understand now. Not just that this was the one thing you had enough context for to call it out and go, wait a minute. That's not nearly enough information to understand type one diabetes. Yeah. And I told her, I was like, listen. You are being trained just like you guys were talking about. I told her the same thing. I said, you are being trained to, like, save somebody in a moment, like, to see the big picture stuff that's gonna end their life and slow that thing down. You're not learning everything about anything. And it's just—she's 21. It was interesting to see how it hit her. You know? Like, it was shocking to her a little bit.
MattIt's almost like you have to have some tie to that disease process to learn more and know more. Like, the type one, when I went into my endo, and I didn't know anything about basal. I had no clue. Like I said, I knew high. I knew low. I knew how to fix that.
Scott BennerYeah.
MattBut she's explaining basal to me like a sink faucet just dripping, a slow drip throughout the day. And I was like, damn. And in one of your other podcasts, I don't remember which title, but talked about when you go to the ER, it's like, listen to your type one patient. They know better than anyone, and it's absolutely true. And I've even talked to coworkers who if you saw me throughout the day, I'm type one consumes me. It takes every bit of my mind, every minute of every day. And they see me at work. I've got my phone open looking at my CGM, my pump's beeping, you know, my times change, and it's a diabetic haven, the ERs, because there's—there's cookies and, you know, snacks. That's—that's how you make nursing staff happy is you feed them crap. And—and I don't eat anything. And then I'll eat—like, I do protein bars, protein chips, and I'll even—something I learned from one of your podcasts going, I'm not afraid of insulin by far. I—I love to see bold with insulin. I'm very aggressive with insulin. Mhmm. So I'll go low, and I'll dose for what I'm eating. And they're like, you're crazy. You know? Like, no. Because it's going to go up, and I'm—can't do the fight with the high low roller coaster. Yeah. I said, you don't understand how this feels, you know, as a type one. I said, it goes low, and I get a horrible stomach pain. Like, my legs start trembling, and I go high. I get hot, sweaty, and it's horrible. Like, I'm not fighting that, and I've learned how to handle this. But you have to have that tie, and now when I see people with—I'll see an Omnipod on somebody, and I get goosebumps. It's like patient's family.
ChassieYeah.
MattAnd it's emotional to me. Yeah. I—I went to discharge a a little boy the other day who wasn't even my patient, but it was at shift change. And his mother's sitting there, and I see an Omnipod on the back of her arm. And I, like, pointed at it and, like, immediately got goosebumps. And, it's just become a whole—it's my life. I don't wish them on anybody, but I—I wish everybody would be as—as tuned into it as I am. And I wish everybody could—could manage it like I do, but it's taking a huge, huge mental hit on me. Yeah. I feel—I'm getting emotional right now even talking about it.
Scott BennerNo. I feel it, Matt. I'll tell you, I have very not similar, but similar feelings when I look at all the people in the Facebook group and the people that come on and talk about how they feel. You know, I've said before, like, I've been doing this a really long time. So when somebody comes on and says, you know, this thing you taught me is really saving me, I feel incredibly emotional because I don't just think about them feeling better today. Like, I think about their future and, you know, the things that they're avoiding and, you know, the possibility of, like, having their own kids one day or, you know, wherever life's gonna take them. And then you, you know, juxtapose that over the knowledge of, like, you know, even your coworkers you just said. Right? They think you're doing it wrong. They don't understand. I spoke with an endocrinologist recently in a private situation, and I was talking about, you know, how fat impacts blood sugar, and this person didn't know what I was talking about. I mean, they were an older person who'd been doing this probably the better part of thirty years. And they weren't telling me, oh, that's not a thing I teach. It's too advanced. They were saying, what's this now?
Scott BennerLike, you know, and I'm like, yeah. You know, you have a high enough fat meal, slows down your digestion, often unbalances the bolus, and then you're left with a carb hit later that there's no insulin for. And they were like, I don't know what you're saying. And that's a person who's, like, front lines talking to somebody. And this was a not a small institution. It's not like I was talking to somebody in the middle of nowhere. Like, you know? So what chance do people have really, you know, to get enough of an understanding to do a good job for themselves? And there's no one to blame. I feel like this conversation proves that out. Like, you can't blame the guy in the ER where you get diagnosed. You can't even blame the endocrinologist, you know, because there's no training there for them either. Like, you are literally at the—it's a coin flip. Like, do I get somebody who looked into this further on their own and understands it better, or did I not? And then that's the path you get to go on. No matter which endo you get, you're gonna believe them when they tell you something. So then maybe if you get given bad information and you have enough trouble in your life, you might dig in and look for yourself, But that's not how most people's minds work. Like, I've been talking about this a lot lately because somebody called me direct. They were like, Scott, you're very direct, and I didn't know what they were talking about. I was like, what do you mean I'm direct?
Scott BennerYou say what you mean? I'm like, everybody says what they mean. They're like, no. They don't. No. Recently, I had a young girl tell me, like, she only stuck up for herself in a doctor's appointment because she thought that's what I would do. And she said, otherwise, she would have just taken what was said to her and just accepted it. And when that's the case, then it's coin flip after coin flip as to whether or not like, just imagine you're walking through the earth, and every time you come to a fork in the road, you gotta flip a coin. And then walk in that direction with all the confidence in the world that you're moving in the right direction right up until you find out you're not. How do you find out you're not? You have neuropathy. How do you find out you're not? Like, you could trigger finger. You know, your blood sugar is 40, and then it's 400 all day long. And then you're caught in a situation where you're now altered. Like, mind's altered, and you need to make a good decision without any direction or knowledge. I'm telling you that this is what happens to people. It's so important that on day one, they get put in the right direction. Like, we made that whole grand round series. It really is made for doctors so that they can get you going on the right foot. Because once you put somebody on the right path, it's not a coin flip anymore when you get to the next fork. There's somebody standing there waiting for you to say, oh, this is the right way to go. Go this way now. And that's how you end up well. It's actually not that difficult. But, you know, explaining it to people, getting it spread out across the world, like, I mean, that's the part that's kind of impossible. Like, I think I'm having some impact on it, but not nearly enough. You know?
ChassieDo you remember what I told you when I first met you? I've—you've meet a lot of people. You probably don't.
Scott BennerI remember where we were standing, but I don't remember what we talked about.
ChassieSo what I said to you when I met you is I thanked you for all the work that you've done, and I told you that I know how to treat sick versus not sick. And if Matt were dying right now, I can save his life. If Matt was struggling or crashing or in DKA or having a heart attack or had limb ischemia, losing his leg, I know how to save him. I can treat him and make sure he stays with us another day. But being his wife and living by his side minute to minute, hour to hour with type one diabetes, I felt so clueless, so lost. And to be honest, I told you that it made me feel dumb. And I thanked you for showing me how to be a partner to Matt and live through this with him and keep him well so I never have to see him in those states where he actually needs me. And that's the beauty of what you do, Scott, is that this is the day to day living life when you're not there with your doctor. You're not there with your nurse. You're not there with your nutritionist. You're not with a pharmacist. It's all of these moments in between where your impact is so huge because now, day to day, when Matt's not with his medical team, he's doing great.
Scott BennerYeah.
ChassieAnd that's all I want for him.
Scott BennerThat's very kind, and thank you. That touches me to hear you say that.
MattHe jumped in right before me. I—I was gonna say that hope when I first met you, standing there all alone like a lost puppy dog, I had to come to you and talk to you. I hope I didn't come off like an idiot because I remember being just so thankful to you. And, it was really the first to get to you was my endocrinologist who first visit with her. She said, listen to this podcast. So luckily, I had—it seems to be the right people at the right time in my life that everything my whole life has been timing. And luckily, the timing's on the right side for me now. I thank you. I think I didn't even—don't even know how to truly thank you, but—and even at the time when I met you, I hadn't listened to, like, the—I forgot how it worded on the website, the, like, the dark—
Scott BennerAfter dark stuff?
MattYeah. After—after dark stuff. Yeah. I didn't even know about that because I had just been listening on, like, YouTube. I have no social media. Tracey's on the Facebook page. So I just do YouTube, and I went up to the website. I was like, oh my god. There's so much more. So I'm just constantly going through it. I'd be in the gym. I'm listening to everything, and it just led me just from the basics, I've listened to the Omnipod stuff and the Dexcom stuff and how to—like, Neobold, and I've realized that I used my version of Neobold and didn't realize it till you came out with that podcast. Mhmm. I was like, shit. That's what I'm doing. Yeah. And I realized that I've learned so much just picking everything up and then trial and error. It's just amazing. And I wish I could teach everything I know to other people, but it's—unfortunately, Arden was diagnosed, but you've helped so many people, including her.
Scott BennerI don't know. I think she's the last one I helped. I was listening to her argue with me last night about changing her pump, and I was like—I was like—I was like, you ought to listen to my podcast.
MattCan still hear you saying, oh, she loves going to Moe's. And she loves their queso, but she gets some Tostitos too. And there's a little things that just stuck with me, and I forgot what it was. Do you—not gummy bears. I forgot what her sugar thing was.
Scott BennerYeah. She's using gummy bears right now, but she's pretty sick of them. So now I'm just eating them.
MattYeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot what I have in my drawer now. I had some buy one, get one something little snacks, but I hardly ever need them. I'm so focused on it. My entire fear with diabetes was that one day, Chassis will find me on the floor, you know, unresponsive. And I think that's what kept me going and being so focused and a pain in her ass or a pain in everyone's ass because I'm—you know, like I said, it consumes me, but I don't wanna do that to her.
Scott BennerOh, Matt, listen.
MattOr anybody else, but—but her—her in particular.
Scott BennerLet me lighten this up for you. You've been very emotional and open. I feel like you were gonna have a great night tonight. I just wanna say that. I feel like she is like, oh, I did pick the right guy. This is awesome. Special night for you coming up, Matt. Make sure those little snacks are in the bedside table. Okay? Here we go. Here we go. You have no idea how hard we try to not be a patient. Well, no. But I—that fear you have, I mean, that's what motivated me when Arden was little. Like, I just did not want my daughter to be the kid that passed out at school. Like, that was Yeah. a lot of my initial motivation. You know what I mean? It's, just to try to avoid a problem for her. You know, I interviewed a woman the other day who helps people with diabetes. And I don't wanna give her details, but, like—because you guys will hear at some point. But my point is that I was listening to what she does, and I think she does a really good job at it. But her ability to reach people is one on one, or sometimes she'll go to, like, a a JDRF event, probably ends up talking to 40 people, which I think is amazing for those 40 people that are there. And I still don't think that I'm saying anything that a lot of other people out in the world aren't saying. I think that the thing I did was I just found a way to put a megaphone in front of it that other people have failed at doing.
Scott BennerAnd maybe they haven't tried or maybe it just hasn't worked out for whatever reason. My thought always was—and this started out as a competitive thing, but now talking more about, like, this idea of, like, spreading good information around, It's become more about that for me, obviously, over time. But it started out as competitive. Like, if I'm gonna make a podcast, I don't want 50 people to hear it. Like, I'm not wasting my time on that. Like, I want 5,000 people to hear it. I want 50,000 people to hear it. I want a 100,000 people to hear it. I have that kind of motivation. And so once I was able to build it up that big, now I'm like, okay. Now we're actually en masse. Like, look. Your endocrinologist said go listen to that podcast. You're in Orlando. I have an email that I answered two weeks ago from, like, Northern Canada where someone said, hey. I need a website where I can share your podcast easier with my patients. That's an endo there. And I looked this morning to see that the show was incredibly popular in New Zealand for some reason yesterday. And, like, that's the kind of stuff—I don't know. That's my—maybe I am more direct or aggressive or—I don't know. I don't honestly care. But what I'm saying is is that, like, it's nice to help a person. It's really nicer to help 10, and it's really cool to help a 100,000 of them. Like, that's how it's gonna spread around because then if you bump into a bad start at your physician's office, maybe you've got a real chance to get off of that coin flip path and onto a meaningful path sooner if the information is not just available. But, like, forget this podcast. This podcast, YouTube channels, any way people get information out, they're all stuck in and if a tree falls in the woods, does anybody hear its situation? There's probably somebody out there doing it better than me or understands it better than I do, but they're not as good as communicating it in this time in history. Like, that's the thing I'm really good at. And so, you know, I'm just hoping it reaches more people like you because listen to you. Like, you don't know Matt. Matt—if Matt was standing in front of you, he would give you the feeling that he could grab you by the side of your head and throw you if he wanted to. To hear him be vulnerable like this is strange because I've met him in person. And, like, you know, face to face, I wouldn't think of you, and this is me jumping to conclusions, obviously, but you wouldn't strike me as a kind of person who's running around with this fear inside of them. But if you are, then everybody is. You know what I mean?
Scott BennerSo I don't know, man. Like, I'm glad the podcast helped you and that it's obviously making your relationship better, and I'm thrilled about that. But I just wanna make some more people hear it. Like, that's really what I'm trying to do. I I have a limited time on this planet, and I am trying to make it so that as many of you as possible don't suffer. That's really it. And, it all comes back and supports my daughter somehow. Yeah.
MattYeah. I don't care how anybody else does it. You're the guy.
Scott BennerBut there's a lot of ways to do it, but I appreciate that. Thank
MattBut—but you don't have the ego. You're down to earth, but maybe because we're so, you know, open and forthcoming and honest that it just—you struck us as, you know, that—that you're it.
Scott BennerNow maybe what that tells you is that more people feel that way than you think because people pretend to be dainty or demure or, you know, like that kind of thing. But when you really start talking to them, more people have my attitude than don't. You know? Like, it maybe they don't have the nerve to say it out loud or stick up for themselves, but they have that feeling inside. Yep. You know? Like, a person who doesn't speak up still feels like they wish they could. I'll tell you that when I first started making the podcast, my wife was like, what's the tone you wanna strike? And I said, well, I mean, there's a lot I don't understand, so why don't I just be the avatar for the listener? And I'll come from the why—I—don't—understand—this perspective, somebody teach me. And that way you guys can feel more vulnerable and and let that information flow through. And, you know, it's just, I don't know. At this point now, it's a mix of everything. I can't dissect what this is anymore, to be perfectly honest with you.
MattIt's perfect. It's what everybody needed. That's what it is.
Scott BennerI appreciate that.
ChassieIt is. It's—it's I'm telling you. It's great for the layperson, the medical person. I think that you are at a really interesting fork. We'll call it fork since you're talking about the coin flip. You're at that interesting fork where you can have the candid approach to diabetes, but you also have enough medical background and enough accurate knowledge to manage it too. And what a beautiful spot you're sitting at to be the candid, supportive dad, but to be so well informed that you can keep up with physicians and nurses and other medical professionals. And, again, say the things that all of us wanna say and maybe just don't communicate it from the patient side or just don't communicate it from the medical professional side. So enjoy that fork because you've taken it and you've shown amazing, amazing things
Scott BennerYou're right.
Chassieto both sides of this. Yeah.
Scott BennerYou're very nice. Listen. We're out of time, but let me ask you a question. Can I call this one Turkish Eye Lift or no?
MattBecause It's your podcast.
Scott BennerYou can call it.
Scott BennerAlso, you can—they get rid of these crow's feet for me? What does that cost?
MattAnd I can tell you it's cheaper there if you wanna do it.
Scott BennerThat's the place to go.
MattI don't know about right now in the in this world, but it's the place to go.
Scott BennerListen. I'm not leaving America right now. I don't I'm not looking to be judged outside of the country at the moment. So, you know, I'm I'm holding on. But travel plans have changed. Well, you guys are terrific. I wish you a ton of success. It sounds like you're obviously off to a really great start with all this. And, Matt, you know, I can't imagine what it's like living with that background noise of, like, you know, having to go check on cancer every six months or every year, but I hope you're able to not think about it day to day.
MattJust become the way of life. I'm on the better end of it now. So and I've got a—the support system that I needed and never had before, and Chassis has been everything to me and almost as important as you are to me.
Scott BennerAlmost, Chassis. You heard that?
MattBut she'll she'll get there. Yeah. She'll get there one day.
Scott BennerYeah. Later tonight, she'll jump ahead of me in that race. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So You guys are terrific. I'm so glad we were able to work this out so you could both be here. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thank you. Yep. Hold on one second. Okay? A huge thanks to US Med for sponsoring this episode of the Juice Box podcast.
Scott BennerDon't forget, usmed.com/juicebox. This is where we get our diabetes supplies from. You can as well. Use the link or call (888) 721-1514. Use the link or call the number, get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from US Med. The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by Tandem Diabetes Care. Learn more about Tandem's newest automated insulin delivery system, Tandem Mobi with Control IQ plus technology at tandemdiabetes.com/juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at juiceboxpodcast.com. The podcast episode that you just enjoyed was sponsored by Eversense CGM. They make the Eversense three sixty five. That thing lasts a whole year. One insertion? Every year? Come on. You probably feel like I'm messing with you, but I'm not. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the juice box podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app, like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple Podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend. And if you leave a five star review, oh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? Have a podcast? Want it to sound fantastic? Wrong way recording.com.