Scott Benner 10/5/23 Scott Benner 10/5/23

#1034 Diabetes Myths: Cinnamon

A brand new series examining the myths surrounding diabetes.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1034 of the Juicebox Podcast

all these months and I still can't say the word myth with an S at the end but today is the second to last myth episode. And Jenny and I will be talking about cinnamon gets its own little episode cinnamon. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you're looking to support the podcast and help yourself at the same time cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% on your towels you sheets and you're comfortables quality stuff at a good price. Cozy earth.com Then take 40% off and voila, you're wearing great gear on the discount. You can also get yourself some Omni pod products at my podcast the Linky linker Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox get in there get yourself a dash or now the pod five

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Call the number or go to the link get your free benefits check and you're on your way to getting your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us med us med.com forward slash juicebox Kenny we're here doing a myth episode. Yeah and we did early on in the episode we did the miracle cures but we very I can only guess yes we very purposefully we very purposely during the miracle cure episode did not bring up go ahead. Cinnamon Cinnamon, because it deserved its own episode. That's why because it deserves its own episode. So let's start off with why do people so widely believed that cinnamon cures diabetes? Do you have any idea?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:38
Well and cure there being an interesting word within the whole thing to because it isn't in no way is is cinnamon a cure. So that's just a complete single statement. Cinnamon is not going to cure any kind of diabetes. However, there are actually a fair number of studies that were done specifically in type two diabetes that showed with certain amounts of cinnamon, somewhat of a shift in glucose response in the body is somewhat of a shift to more optimal fasting blood sugar levels etc. So the cruddy thing is that now cinnamon is like the it's the it is the cure all it's the number one that most people hear about is I'm just going to take cinnamon, I mean, they're even I don't even know what the tablets are called. But there are cinnamon tablets and there are probably multiple brands at this point. But years ago, at one of my conventions, they actually had a they had a table instead of in the convention hall, the cinnamon product that was like a tablet just take the cinnamon tablets along with your meal times. I mean they had it at like a national clinical convention. They got a table.

Scott Benner 4:12
I don't so listen, I don't want to say that there's no benefit of from cinnamon. I I'm not saying that. But if I google cinnamon cure, I get there's this funny. Cinnamon cured bacon, which is the only Here you go cinnamon cures for high blood pressure for ulcers, infection, bad breath, toothache, throat pain, headaches, irregular menstruation, arthritis, skin allergies. And whenever

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:44
lipid lipids are usually in their cholesterol levels are typically in there to

Scott Benner 4:48
these returns do not bring back diabetes. I have to type the deed to get toasting Yeah. So this is a thing that is bandied about so much in the world. that if you ask somebody with type one, what do people think? Here's type one diabetes, they're gonna say cinnamon. Like everyone has heard that at some point or another but in a Google search it does not pop right up. That's really interesting. Yeah, I that threw me off by the way. I thought it was gonna I thought it was gonna come up with lights on it at the top. And it wasn't there. But, but there's I mean, here's the Healthline article 10 evidence based health benefits of cinnamon, antioxidants. Let's see. I mean, it's the bark of a tree. Right? It may have anti inflammatory properties. It could protect against heart disease, it could improve sensitivity to insulin. Okay, here we go. Health Line. Why do you think that this essential for transplant? Don't explain insulin, Amanda was pretty isn't that funny? Isn't that funny? There's a headline here. Let me be clear. Number five on the Health Line 10 things that cinnamon might do list. Number five, it says could improve sensitivity to insulin, it doesn't make a distinction. Well, here we go. Insulin is one of the key hormones it explains what insulin is. This is all the text that's here. It's essential for transporting blood sugar from your bloodstream to your cells. However, some people are resistant to the effects of insulin. This is known as insulin resistance a hallmark condition like metabolic syndrome and type two diabetes. While more research is needed, some studies suggest that cinnamon may be able to reduce insulin resistance by increasing insulin sensitivity cinnamon can lower blood sugar levels and support better blood sugar control. I'm just gonna say something and no offense to helpline that doesn't say anything. That's a lot of words that doesn't say anything.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:45
Yeah. And in no way does it. And thankfully it doesn't it No way. Does it say anything about it being a cure.

Scott Benner 6:52
It doesn't matter type one diabetes either.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:55
No, it doesn't. Because this this studies are. There are astounding numbers of type two studies. There are not in type one. And in fact, years ago, I actually did an article for a nutrition publication that was about it was supposed to be about the benefits of cinnamon in diabetes management. And honestly, what I uncovered is the fact that there are multiple kinds of cinnamon. Did you know that?

Scott Benner 7:24
I'm learning that now? Yeah.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:27
And I mean, the one that we commonly have here in the United States? Well, there are two of them, actually. One of them is called Cassia. That's the most common type. Also kind of called Saigon cinnamon. And it wasn't actually even made in Saigon, it was just the place perfect name, then it was a trading post essentially. Right. Right. So it didn't it wasn't even produced there. There's nothing grown cinnamon there. Through and then the one that actually is not. And I hate using the word detrimental, but unfortunately, a lot of the studies prove that there is actually an amount of cinnamon that is too much. And caseus cinnamon especially has a high concentrations of something called coumarin. Okay, which can be not great for your liver function.

Scott Benner 8:29
So here my diabetes is cinnamon. I mean, it's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:31
right like this is that rolling ball that if you sprinkle cinnamon on your toast or your oatmeal or you know, on your bacon every single morning, fine, absolutely. You are no detriment whatsoever, obviously. But the type of cinnamon that, you know, the studies were done with is certainly not a sprinkling. I mean it's a fair amount of cinnamon in order to be able to show benefit to insulin resistance. And the better type of insulin is actually called Ceylon. It's ce YLON has a much softer sweeter you don't need very much of it. And of course, Are there studies using that one? No.

Scott Benner 9:16
What about this here? I'm still in this hell fine article. I've now scrolled down number six. It says apart from the beneficial effects on insulin resistance. Cinnamon can lower blood sugar through several mechanisms. First, Cinnamon has been shown to decrease the amount of sugar that enters your bloodstream after a meal. That I mean,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:37
did they give you a portion? It means not a portion but a dose.

Scott Benner 9:40
What they don't say is that by how much right? Like I know if I eat something and my blood sugar was gonna go up 200 points from it. If I have type one, but it only goes up 195 points then I you know, I also think that they are very specific. Well, I don't want to use the word specifically. This article is not specifically talking about type to diabetes, but I think that's what they're talking about. I would expect Yeah. It interferes with numerous digestive enzymes, which slows down, which slows the breakdown of carbs in your digestive tract. So that's how like ozempic works, right? It slows digestion. So if you could slow digestion, you could spread out the impact. But again, that's not going to help a type one. I mean, it like a lot. I mean, it might help a little, but it's not going to be any big impact.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:30
It's not going to be a big impact. So I think that's the that's the detriment of saying your or saying, hey, everybody should use, you know, this whopping amount of cinnamon on a day to day basis. I mean, I love cinnamon, I use cinnamon every single day. But I don't take it in tablet form.

Scott Benner 10:53
Right, the expectation is going to bring, see I think here's the problem, right? Like, the effective dose here they're talking about is one to six grams or a half to two teaspoons of cinnamon per day. Have you found that getting your diabetes supplies can be a pain in the butt. I have to but not any longer because now we're getting Arden's diabetes supplies from us med to get a free benefits check, just call 888-721-1514 or go to us med.com forward slash juicebox. US med has served over 1 million diabetes customers since 1996. And they want you to know that they're offering you better service and better care than you're getting now. US med always provides 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. They carry everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the FreeStyle Libre two and the Dexcom G six. Arden gets her Dex comps and her on the pods from us med. US med accepts Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers. US med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems. The number one specialty distributor for Omnipod dash, number one fastest growing tandem distributor, the number one rated distributor index com customer service satisfaction surveys. And they are proud of the white glove treatment that they offer their customers. Us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888-721-1514. And that 888 Number is special just for Juicebox Podcast listeners. Now if you decide to go to the website, it's super simple. Here's what it tells you when you get there Getting started is easy. from the comfort of your own home or office. You can now join over 1 million satisfied customers who rely on our staff of courteous knowledgeable and trained us med customer care representatives to keep you up to date with your medical and diabetic supplies delivered right to your door. Super simple benefits check name phone number email zip code, and then just hit the button that says Request a free benefits check. It's that easy. Let us med take care of your supplies so you don't have to worry

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:14
that's a that's a lot of cinnamon. Yeah, like if you think about ever cooking with cinnamon if you make any kind of like banana bread or cookies or whatever right the whole recipe which probably makes 20 servings includes a half to a full teaspoons but yeah, I mean you're not going to sit down and be like this teaspoon of cinnamon is really lovely.

Scott Benner 13:36
I think we're the the shame of this is and I'm not just listen health lines what popped up There's any number of articles that you could find I'm not defending health, I'm just saying I'm not coming after them either. But the idea that there's there's no quantification here there's no like, Yeah, you like, like, Look, if if, if your if your insulin to carb ratio is one unit covers 100 You know, lowers you 100 points and I can say look, use a unit of insulin, your blood sugar come down 100 point, nothing like that as being said here, it's not a teaspoon is gonna buy you in a one C of blah blah blah. Like, I think what I think is it wouldn't hurt you to eat some cinnamon, but it's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:16
sure Yeah, in fact, cinnamon is a great additive flavor to something that you might have used something like sugar or extra, you know what I mean? You might have used something that actually isn't as beneficial for your blood sugar control. So if you add in a little bit of a flavor, it's much like using something like Mrs. Dash instead of salt, you add a whole bunch of flavor and it replaces essentially for you. So absolutely there's nothing wrong with using Cena

Scott Benner 14:45
and we've had a really popular episode of this podcast where somebody talked about like eating foods and certain orders or certain foods and like you know things that might help keep your blood sugar from spiking and I've heard back from a lot of people we've had a lot of success with it. I'm not like Pooh poohing it. I'm trying to tell All right, I think it all comes from. But I just have to say like, if you go through this article, it is littered with phrases like may help, could be has been known to a lot of a lot of legal phrasing, which means any promising you anything.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:20
And even if you go to more not just what is usually looking at health line you said, right. So even if you go to someplace that's got a bigger name something like mail, right, yeah, just very well known. Their information that you can find also uses those words. So it's not just that it's coming from a source that's collectively looking at something as a potential, it's coming from the fact that nowhere has proven 100% Worth and or the the specific dose or amount that you should or could use in a safe way that provides this true 100% benefit. So they have to say, May, it could do this for you give it a try. I mean, you know, it could be like trying, right? There's no harm in trying. Yeah,

Scott Benner 16:14
but just it's just you just have to be careful when you're reading. I mean, there's a sentence here that says widely studied, which makes you go widely studied Oh, a lot of people think this, but then the words potential come up afterwards. So potential use of don't forget, it's been limited to test tubes and animal studies that suggest like it's the phrasing is interesting, but it doesn't matter because once it gets into the world, it's cinnamon cures diabetes, and you're like it's insane. Alright, ready? Here we go. Cinnamon will cure you. cinnamon apple cider vinegar. I have heard somebody telling me that cinnamon will cure me so many times. I can't count. I have had colleagues who are scientists tell me that I need to just have cinnamon. It will cure my type one diabetes. Have more cinnamon. I was told that's gonna cure it. More cinnamon will get you off of insulin.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:13
So oh, let's see. Those are the worrisome. Giant.

Scott Benner 17:17
This isn't gonna stop by the way. Cinnamon have it with ginseng, then it really works. You just if you just mix that cinnamon with ginseng. Now you're on to something. Hold on.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:30
Well, why don't you just mix it with your beverage of choice? To right, like, throw it all together?

Scott Benner 17:37
Hold on. Ready? I'm literally Oh, I have to eat cinnamon but I have to drink it with okra water. Oh, let's see this person. That person. This is one from another episode where they said a foot massage would cure my diabetes. And the woman joked and said but only if I probably sprinkle cinnamon on my foot first. So many different variations of the cinnamon things. The ladies like I've heard from so many people that have taken this idea. Cinnamon cures it and then they commingle it with something else. And then they tell us what I think Jewish people would call Booba Meister a big story about it. Oh, just takes over my sister. My Yiddish. I know just enough to be dangerous. Just take cinnamon and you'll get better. Oh, has it gotten worse? You should increase your cinnamon. That's it those that's the things that people talked about. But since that sentiment, I just wanted to make sure that cinnamon got its own shout out here. Because it deserves it deserves Yes, I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:44
you know, and years ago, like I said, when I did that article, I learned a lot about it, which was interesting to me. And I actually changed the kind of cinnamon that I use, because of the cause of doing the research, right? The majority of the research around the type of cinnamon to use, like I said earlier is the case sia or Cassia. I don't know exactly how you say it or pronounce it. And that's the one that actually does have more information about dos being too much at one time. And you know, potentials to that causing problems, especially for those who might already have liver disease or it may cause issues. I mean, again, I like cinnamon. So it's like well, I can easily switch to the other kind of cinnamon it's more expensive, but I actually like the flavor a lot better and it doesn't carry the same

Scott Benner 19:42
I think I think you're also making a point that you're not really coming out and saying is that if you turn a little screw over here and turn a little screw over here and turn it off a little screws you might actually see a little different. Yeah, a little difference, right? So zactly like, you know, cinnamon by the fistful is not going to make You're diabetes go and

Jennifer Smith, CDE 20:00
nor have I tried, right? I'm like, I'm gonna just try this whole big screw over here. I'm just gonna give it all the cinnamon, I'm not going to take my insulin for the day and see that we're clearly right.

Scott Benner 20:11
I mean, if you listen, if I don't know if if okra water or I don't know apple cider vinegar in that way I don't know, I'm just saying like, if you got a tiny bit of benefit out of all these things, or if it just made you feel better, like, right on like you and me, like I'm not telling anybody not to do anything, and I'm a proponent of taking supplements or things I take a fair amount of supplements every day, and they have definitely benefited me. The problem with any kind of supplementation, I think, is that it doesn't hit you fast enough for you to be 100% sure that it actually did anything. And you have to have this very big view of it. Like, I'm going to take this for weeks or months. And I'm gonna see like, do I feel different now? Like, can I look back and say, I feel better now than I did before? If I stopped taking it, do I see myself going in the other direction? Like, there's a lot of trial and error that needs to be used.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:09
And I think there's a it's a good point to make, because I think when you start to add any type of supplement in particular, yes, it takes a while for it to start working. And to. To do a true experiment, you have to filter out variables, you have to filter out and not really change anything else. Well, maybe if this one's a supplement that you're taking behind the scenes is making a difference. And so you're feeling better. And so maybe that feeling better means that you can now have enough energy at six o'clock in the morning to get out and start taking a walk when before you didn't. You may not put those things together. And so then your health outcome later is it's it's better. But is it because you started taking the supplement? Or is it a combination of the supplements started making you feel better? And you started taking this daily walk? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, maybe

Scott Benner 22:02
you're just focusing on yourself more. And maybe the Ashwagandha is not helping you at all, but maybe it's got you focused on taking better care of yourself. So Correct. What's the harm? Yeah, I gotcha. Okay. I think it's a lot of mindset. It really is. I mean, if if putting a table a table, oh my god, honestly, a tablespoon. If putting a little sprinkle of like cinnamon on your food, makes you feel like you're doing something, then that might be good for you. Like, don't worry, don't worry. I take I take magnesium, vitamin D, zinc. I take ashwagandha every day, I don't know that it helps me or not, I really couldn't begin to tell you. I do feel better now than I ever have. I've also just lost 30 pounds. So maybe it's who cares? Like it's working? So like I'm moving in the right direction is the way I think of it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:55
Yes. So you don't have a full on one particular thing evaluation. This is what worked because I didn't change anything else. You don't have that. Right. Yeah. Okay, well, it's all working together. So I'm just not gonna I'm gonna keep it.

Scott Benner 23:08
I can afford to spend $50 Every couple of months on these things. And I'm going in the right direction. So all right, Jenny, because this is the last episode. I want to thank you very much for doing this with me. I am very excited for the thing we're going to do next, which I don't think we're going to tell people about right here but I'm super excited about it. And as well. Yeah, and boba Meister has a long story or wives tale. That is something a grandma would tell it's Yiddish for bubba or grandmother. I asked about the family and she started in on a Baba Meister about hospitals. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 23:43
interesting. Well, thank you for the little sure in for information about a word I had. I had not heard that before. I've heard many many words, but I've not heard that one.

Scott Benner 23:53
I gave a weekend talk at an orthodox event. And my knowledge of Yiddish was a huge people loved it. Let's just expand it Yes, I came in I said to you, am I using this word right there? Like how do you know that word? I was like, Haha, I am.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 24:07
I did my homework. Alright, hold on a second.

Scott Benner 24:19
Well, there's one more myth episode coming next week. But I want to thank Jenny right now for this one. Jennifer is available to you if you'd like to hire her. She works at integrated diabetes.com I also want to thank us med for being a longtime sponsor of the Juicebox Podcast us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your free benefits check and get going today with us med. Of course us matters where Arden gets her Dexcom G seven and her Omni pod dash from if you know somebody who has type two or prediabetes, keep listening after the music for the rest of you. Thank you So much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you have typed to or pre diabetes, that type two diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast is exactly what you're looking for. Do you have a friend or a family member who is struggling to understand their type two and how to manage it? This series is for them. seven episodes to get you on track and up to speed. Episode 860 series intro 864 guilt and shame. Episode 869 medical team 874 fueling plan, Episode 880 diabetes technology episode 85 GLP ones metformin and insulin and an episode 889. We talk about movement. This episode is with me and Jenny Smith. Of course you know Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist. She is a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. Too many people don't understand their type two diabetes, and this series aims to fix that. Share it with a friend or get started today.

#1033 Figuring Out Hawley

Hawley has type 1 diabetes and a number of other issues.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1033 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's episode is a tour de force. I have Holly on the show. She's a 40 year old type one. And she's got a lot going on here the episodes jam packed. I feel like I don't want to explain it to you here. Because then you know, it feels like a given away. Let's just say there's surprises abundantly available to you in this episode of The Juicebox Podcast while you're listening to it. Please remember that nothing you hear on said podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. You can support the podcast by using my links there in the show notes of your podcast player and at juicebox podcast.com. Or you can type them into a browser. For example, you could save 40% off your entire order at cozy earth.com using the offer code juice box at checkout do that you'll save 40% Go to drink a G one.com forward slash juice box get a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel bags with your first order. You can get your Omni pods from Aldi, pij Dexcom, from Dexcom Yukon to our next gen meters. Just use the links this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Use my link get the Omni pod dash or the AMI pod five, and they'll get it right over to you. They zimny boom comes to you. I don't mean I don't know the whole process, but you'll figure it out at the link. The podcast is also sponsored today, by Dexcom dexcom.com. Forward slash juicebox. You want to Dexcom G seven, of course you do use my link dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. You can get the G six or the G seven. I think he can actually get a test drive and the G six. Speaking of that you might be able to get a test drive with the Omnipod of my like, my legs are terrific. Check them out.

Hawley 2:18
My name is Holly and I am an adult with type one diabetes. I'm a mother of one. And yeah, that's That's it.

Scott Benner 2:29
Let's get this out of the way. First. Is your name Holly? Yes, it's Holly but spelled differently. Yes, correct. I honestly you don't have to finish. This is the only reason I had you on the show. I just wanted to find out.

Hawley 2:44
Yeah, I always tell people who are old enough they get this reference that to think of the show he Hall. And it's just like Hall li

Scott Benner 2:54
ya know, I mean, I've always thought that I just, I could never like I've never seen that before. Your parents do that here.

Hawley 3:04
It is a common last name. I'll say that for some. And so that is how I came around that spelling. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 3:13
That makes sense to me. All right. And like I said, everything else is going to be a bonus. I just wanted to know why your name is spelt like this. Is it a southern thing?

Hawley 3:22
I don't think so. Know. What part of the country you from, like vaguely northwest Arkansas.

Scott Benner 3:29
Where's that? That's not southern? That's like Midwestern.

Hawley 3:32
No, it's well, so northwest Arkansas has its own unique little area. Because we're Walmart Ville. And so we have people from all over. And we're also so close to the border. They're in like Missouri and Oklahoma. We're kind of a little liberal pocket in the south in Northwest Arkansas.

Scott Benner 3:53
Interesting. Yeah, I don't know anything about the map, obviously. Like you just said, Arkansas. I'm so like, I don't know where that is. Wait, is it near Tennessee? To the left?

Hawley 4:07
Yeah, on the right. You have to go east from all the way east from where I am, I think to head towards Tennessee.

Scott Benner 4:14
But like, like longitude and latitude. It's like, yeah, it's in that line there.

Hawley 4:19
Yes. Yeah, we're below them. I believe the Mason Dixon Line and we're considered Southern, it's just that. I know, I grew up in this area. And while there are some things that are very southern, especially if you go, you know, I don't know, 30 miles into the country. We also have this kind of urban development mix going on, because there's so much corporate so we have people from internationally and all over the globe living here. So it's kind of a neat area.

Scott Benner 4:51
So you don't think of that. So Arkansas is not thought of as Midwestern.

Hawley 4:55
No, no, it is Southern. But it also But believe me that people love their Razorback football. Okay. But I have I know enough to know that this is a really kind of unique spot in Arkansas.

Scott Benner 5:12
Gotcha. That's cool. All right. I'm gonna look at a map later and try to see if I can remember. You have. Let's see, what's your situation? What's your background? Do you have diabetes?

Hawley 5:22
Yes, I am the type one. And I just have though one daughter, and she actually has what the endocrinologist called insulin resistance. And I just asked the other day, if that's a polite way of saying type two, and he said, yes and no, because she doesn't meet the blood sugar cut off. She hasn't had a blood sugar high enough to diagnose her with type two, but she does have insulin resistance. Okay, well, how

Scott Benner 5:49
old were you when you were diagnosed?

Hawley 5:51
I just know, it was in 1997. And I was either 14 or 15. But I can't remember I always my memories, not

Scott Benner 5:58
the best. That's like 24 years ago, 25 years ago?

Hawley 6:01
Yeah, definitely over 20 years. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 6:06
Other people in your family with type one? Yes or no? No, no other autoimmune for you. Were trying

Hawley 6:13
to figure that out. Okay. So, like, No, I'm been on a very many years journey of trying to figure out what the heck is going on with my body. But it's complicated by having had breast cancer and 2015. And it was kind of like, is this a result of damage from chemo? And many, many surgeries? Or is this something else? Is it the Tamoxifen medicine I'm on? Because tamoxifen can cause all of these, you know, pretty horrendous symptoms? Or is it something else? And so it's been since 2015, that I've kind of been trying to figure all of that out.

Scott Benner 7:04
So what do you have happening that you can't get figured out? Like, what's your sense? What are your symptoms?

Hawley 7:09
Okay, so I don't eat a ton. And I'm pretty active, not like, I don't love exercise, like, I'm not a runner, but I own a pet sitting business. So sometimes in the summer, I'm walking four hours a day, and just like gaining weight, like, you know, I see. And then fatigue is something and then I have chronic pain in my hands. Wrist was diagnosed with carpal tunnel during my pregnancy with my daughter. And then it has progressed to like my entire arms and shoulders. But you know, they also took out lymph nodes under each armpit pit whenever I had my double, or my my mastectomy, right. And so it's like, Is the pain coming from post surgical trauma? Soft tissue? Is it bone? Is it joint, is it, you know? And like, I literally just came back from seeing a massage therapist because my arms have gotten so bad. They tested me for RA for the second time. I still don't have any markers. Yeah. And I went to go see a guy who specializes in kind of orthopedic post operative massage and healing. And he said, I have hypermobility, which I had just been researching on behalf of my daughter, but I didn't think I had it. And that was one of the things he said to me within the first seven minutes of getting on his table.

Scott Benner 8:48
Do you think any of this is hormonal? Do you feel it flaring around your period or anything like that?

Hawley 8:53
I think there's definitely hormonal things at play that has been one of my biggest hurdles in managing my diabetes have because of the I was I had a what they called a I want to say like chemically induced menopause when I was in chemo, it just means the chemo caught, you know, causes your body to stop having your cycle right. So but then they put you on the Tamoxifen which if I'm any health field, people correct me but I believe it's not that it suppresses your estrogen but that it interferes with your body's cells ability to absorb it. So the idea being you would essentially starve out because I had estrogen sensitive cancer. So you starve any remaining cells of that cancer cells in your body by making it where it can't get to the estrogen. But in doing that, it caused horrible cysts, huge, huge hormonal swings, drastic insulin resistance Since like it was maybe one of the hardest diabetes phases of my life. And since then I finally went off of it, and it's better. But I still have very noticeable shifts in usage and other things. Through I tracked my cycles closely, shall we say, because there are definite things that happen.

Scott Benner 10:24
Yeah, go back for a second. Did you say you were suppressing estrogen was something?

Hawley 10:29
Tamoxifen is not it. As far as I know, it doesn't suppress it. But it interferes with your body's ability to like, access it. That's kind of my understanding,

Scott Benner 10:40
because joint pain can be attached to like progesterone and estrogen, estrogen, like, well,

Hawley 10:45
I stopped taking it, they want you to be on it. According to my oncologist, they five to 10 years, but we stopped at, I forget what it was maybe six years, because my symptoms were so bad, my quality of life was horrendous. So they reduced my dose to half from 10 milligrams to five. And then I was on that half dose and things got better, but still were pretty horrible. And I finally said, I enough, like my diabetes is so heavily affected by this. I'm not taking this anymore. I have to live and so I don't take tamoxifen anymore,

Scott Benner 11:24
right. Okay, so here's what I have. Estrogen has an anti inflammatory effect on the body. So there's that. So if you're interfering with estrogen being used, would it interfere with that? I'm just asking the question. And then scientists have found exposure to the hormone progesterone activates genes that trigger inflammation. Or you may be getting like fluctuations in your, in your hormonal balance that are causing joint pain is the joint pain constant.

Hawley 11:54
It's constant with major flares. Like it's constant. I'm always in a state of pain. But sometimes it's worse than others.

Scott Benner 12:04
Do you hear my episode when I talked about art and using no vas at all?

Hawley 12:08
I did. I did. And I that's one of the things I need to look into. Because I know because I want to say I'm triple positive for estrogen receptors that I'm really limited on what sort of the hormonal support I can you

Scott Benner 12:25
Gotcha. Okay. All right. All right. Well, that's a lot. Let's go back to the beginning now. So your diagnosis, a teen going into like your sophomore year of high school. And you've sent me some notes, so I don't want to ignore them. Did you drink a little bit in college and high school?

Hawley 12:42
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:45
Why did you bring it up in your notes?

Hawley 12:48
Specifically, you were asking for after dark episodes. And also, I think diabetes is a very fear based thing so frequently, and I want people to know that there are ways and then there are ways and that approaching things. I guess, being smart about your poor decision making is a thing you can do.

Scott Benner 13:15
How do you mean?

Hawley 13:17
Like, you know, I think I was raised to think of drinking as being irresponsible, and then once just in general, right, and then drinking too much, you just shouldn't do it. That was a thing you shouldn't do. But then when you're diabetic, there's this extra layer that gets piled on top of that of everything in your life, well, then you definitely shouldn't do that. When in reality, I think it is. Drinking is a thing that can be problematic for everyone. And we and as someone who's diabetic, you have to learn to approach things that have risks, and make smart choices to like, set yourself up for success in those choices you're making. So, you know, I did lots of dumb stuff. But I was pretty smart about how I did dumb stuff,

Scott Benner 14:05
even even as a younger person. Yes, yeah. Why did you see that? I mean, how did you get to that? Like, why were you pre planning or drinking, for example, like to help yourself is like, did you think like, I have diabetes, but I still want to drink? And this is how I can accomplish it. How would you like to know what your blood glucose is without having to stick a hole in your finger, you can with the Dexcom G seven. And you can learn more about the Dexcom g7@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Not only does Dexcom offer zero finger sticks, but you can get your glucose readings right on your smart device that's your iPhone or your Android don't have a phone. That's okay. You can use Dex comms receiver. On any of these devices, you're able to set up customizable alerts and alarms, setting your optimal range so that you'll get notified when your glucose levels go too high or too low. Oh, and you can share this data with up to 10 followers. Imagine what that could look like your child could be at school, and their data could be available to you, your spouse, their aunt, the school nurse, anyone who you choose, my daughter has been wearing a Dexcom for ever. And Dexcom helps us in multiple ways. Around meals, we're able to see if our boluses are well timed, and well measured. If they aren't, we can tell by how her blood sugar reacts, and then go back the next time and make an adjustment. Without the Dexcom CGM. We're sort of flying blind, but not just that meals. Also during activity and sleep. The Dexcom offers us an unprecedented level of comfort and security, being able to see my daughter's blood sugars in real time. And not just the number. But the speed and direction is an absolute game changer. If you're using insulin, the Dexcom is at the center of how we've been able to keep our daughter's a one C between five two and six two. for over seven years, we've been able to minimize variability and keep her blood sugar's in a stable range. Because of the information that we can see with the Dexcom. These are our results and yours may vary. But using Dex coms feedback has helped my daughter without any food restrictions, live a more normal and healthy life dexcom.com forward slash juice box.

Hawley 16:33
I don't, I don't remember in my teens, I didn't. I mean, I did drink in my teens, but not not as much as when I was in college. But I just remember seeing friends and how they behaved when they drink too much. And now look, I had to be rescued. I made a fool of myself a time or two. But I learned very quickly I didn't ever want to be. I didn't like not being in control and aware of my surroundings and able to make decisions. And so I kind of learned to navigate the drinking in my brain to where I thought, Okay, well, I'm kind of drunk, I can tell how my body feels, I can still make decisions, I can still tell someone you know, and all of my friends got the holly lesson on how to check my blood sugar and what to do. I was very much like, let me tell you about my diabetes. And here are my parents phone numbers in case some I've always been like that pretty much from the beginning.

Scott Benner 17:39
So you kind of got the people around you prepared that if there was a problem, you felt like they'd be able to help you with it.

Hawley 17:45
Somewhat at least enough. I told them when in doubt, you just call 911 That's what I always told them. If you're too nervous, and you don't want to do this, you just call 911. And you tell them I'm type one. Okay. And, and but I was always kind of the mom of the group. And so I tend to be the one, you know, holding hair back and who

Scott Benner 18:08
would have done that anyway. So you needed you. Yeah. That's interesting. So what did you What did you go to college for?

Hawley 18:18
What didn't I go to college for?

Scott Benner 18:20
I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. But okay, what did you go go for?

Hawley 18:26
Initially, I went for photojournalism. I was obsessed with National Geographic, and I went to a school that had a very good journalism school.

Scott Benner 18:36
Okay. And did you not get a degree in that? No. What what came next

Hawley 18:43
freshman year, I moved five and a half hours away, joined a sorority and moved to the Midwest. And it was basically I had never had to try very hard academically, to succeed. I also had structure built it built into my entire life. I was at the time undiagnosed ADHD. And I went and joined this sorority and met these wonderful people. And there were all of these performance things she could do singing, dancing, acting, all these philanthropic things. And I was just in heaven, and I kind of I didn't have any structure and I moved five and a half hours away. And I thought you have to understand I also had been going to college since I was a sophomore in high school. Because we didn't really have very many AP classes at the small town I was at. My mom found out about concurrent enrollment. And so I started taking college classes at our local university. And they weren't hard. And so I thought when I went away to school, but to a much more academic I'm at school, unbeknownst to me that I wouldn't have to try and could skip class and still make A's. And I just, you know, went down the rabbit hole of being so happy and involved. I was over involved and not working on my academics enough. And I learned a really hard lesson and, you know, essentially basically failed out because I developed insomnia. And because I had anxiety about sleeping, I was afraid I was going to die in my sleep, and no one would know No kidding. Yeah, and I just didn't sleep. And I would just stay up all night on like, the computer on AOL, not sleeping. And then there was a weird thing. You know, how your brain makes sense of things. And they don't really make sense. But at the time it did. Yeah. I felt safer sleeping during the day, because my mom would always call me and people would call me and I thought, if I don't answer, they'll realize something's wrong. And so I felt safer sleeping during the day and afraid to sleep at night that I would die. No one would know it until the next day, and then it would be too late. That

Scott Benner 21:23
did it. Did it ever occur to you to set up a structure the way you did with the drinking? My daughter Arden began wearing the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump on February 4 2009. That was 5093 days ago. Were another way to think of it 1697 pods ago. At that time, she was four years old. Hang out with me for a moment while I tell you more about the Omni pod Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Today Arden is 18 and still wearing Omni pod back then there was one choice just one pod but today you have a decision to make. Do you want the Omni pod five, the first and only tubeless automated insulin delivery system to integrate with the Dexcom G six, because if you do, it's available right now for people with type one diabetes ages two years and older. The Omni pod five is an algorithm based pump that features smart adjust technology. That means that the Omni pod five is adjusting insulin delivery based on your customized target glucose that's helping you to protect against high and low blood sugars, both day and night. Automatically. Both the Omni pod five and the Omni pod dash are waterproof, you can wear them while you're playing sports swimming in the shower, the bathtub, anywhere really. That kind of freedom. Coupled with tubeless a tubeless pump, you understand it's not connected to anything. The controller is not connected to the pod, the pod is not connected to anything, you're wearing it on the body tube lessly no tubing to get caught on doorknobs or anywhere else that tubing with those other insulin pumps can get caught Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, that's where you go to find out more, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash, you should check that out too, when you get to my lake Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. So if you're looking for an insulin pump that is tubeless waterproof, and automated. You're looking for the Omni pod five. If you want to do it on your own, you're not looking for the automation, Omni pod dash for full safety risk information and free trial Terms and Conditions. Please also visit omnipod.com forward slash juicebox

Hawley 23:48
I think I think I just was horribly anxious and did not know what that word was back then. And would call my mom sometimes at two in the morning and bless her she answer every time and I did. I don't even know what that structure would have looked like I think I didn't. I had taken care of myself from the beginning. And I didn't know to set something up to create a safety net for that scenario.

Scott Benner 24:24
That makes sense to me. I mean before the technology and everything I was just wondering if you've like ever told somebody like look, I'm scared to sleep so you know for a week would you just call me at a certain time wake me up and or set an alarm and wake yourself up? Or just unreasonable anxiety nature of the whole thing just put you in a position where you're like I just would be easier not to sleep.

Hawley 24:46
I think I was ashamed. Probably no one really knew except for a girl who eventually a friend you ended up moving in with me. That was part of the problem is that I lived off campus as a freshman our incoming class was so huge, they didn't have enough dorm rooms. So I ended up living off campus, a fair aways away by myself, with no one really around. And so it got better when my friend moved in. She would wake up sometimes and they have you slept? And I, I'd be like, No.

Scott Benner 25:22
And where did that? Where did this fear come from? Holly did? Did you have a problem? Or were you just worried that there was going to be one? Because you weren't worried about getting drunk? And and having type one. But you were worried about sleeping and having a tight bond?

Hawley 25:37
I think it's because it felt out of my control, because I'm not awake to know how I feel. So how will I know I'm low? And what if I go low? And instead of waking up? I don't wake up. Okay.

Scott Benner 25:56
That's all listen, I'm just asking questions. But I mean, I see what you're getting at. And so how long did that go on for? Because you can't not sleep forever?

Hawley 26:05
I don't know. It was pretty bad. But I mean, I was sleeping during the day, but I would sleep erratically

Scott Benner 26:12
and better. Yes, during the day.

Hawley 26:15
Yeah. Well, that's why I failed out. Because I mean, I was missing a lot of class.

Scott Benner 26:21
I'm sorry. It's not funny at all, but it is. Yeah,

Hawley 26:25
I mean, looking back on it. It was a lot of it also was just not realizing the whole ADHD thing and kind of not having a good concept of consequences. And not realizing that I couldn't always just go in and make an A on a test without studying or, you know, a lot of that was having to realize that this college was a different academic experience for me. And I was actually going to have to try, and I had never had to develop study habits.

Scott Benner 27:02
Okay, it just everything always worked out for you until you got to this scenario where suddenly nothing was working out.

Hawley 27:09
Yes. Except, yeah, yeah. Except

Scott Benner 27:11
for Well, well, you also said here that you had anxiety around that, did you ever get treated for the anxiety or talk to anybody about the anxiety?

Hawley 27:21
I brought up some of this stuff at from a young age. I brought up concerns. And I think maybe generationally that my mom had a lot of distrust for mental health professionals, I think that was pretty common. You know, for her generation, there was a lot of the like, life is hard. You just got to buck up and make it work. Okay, no, I kept, and I brought up these concerns throughout life. And eventually, it took until I was older. And I found out I went back to school, I left that school transferred to a back home, my health got pretty bad, my mental and physical health as far as you know, not in a good place. And my specialist was at the Children's Hospital, in Little Rock. So that five and a half hours home three and a half hours down to the Children's Hospital. And I couldn't find a doctor, I liked up where I was. My parents, you know, asked if I wanted to come home to be closer to my doctor. And it felt like the right choice because I needed more support. And so I came back and went back to school there locally, and found out about the psychology clinic on campus. And it was a really low cost. And so I went there. But but no one really, again, I didn't have the right words, and my mom just didn't really see the benefit and talking to someone and kind of just thought if I put my nose down, like why was I having? Why was I having so much of a hard time I was smart. Just get your degree and get it over with but it just kept not working. And eventually, I felt like this doesn't make any sense. I am smart. Why do I keep failing and I noticed a cycle of not sleeping trouble sleeping. You know, there was drinking going out. And it just was cyclical, but it kind of came down to the part in part because the ADHD, I just didn't know how to manage every thing. Yeah. And finally, I did go to that psychology clinic and had official testing done and was diagnosed but not until by this point. I've been added in and out of school and I was like 28.

Scott Benner 30:03
Wow. Okay, were you how are you supporting yourself? Well, my parents

Hawley 30:07
were extremely supportive. They believed in me and probably honestly enabled me. But I also worked like five jobs at one point. You know, I was bartending at two to two different places. I worked at an animal hospital. I also did private babysitting nanny, and I've always loved childcare. I worked really hard. You know, so it's kind of a mix.

Scott Benner 30:35
Yeah. So there's just a whole bunch going on. Listen, you have something here that I don't quite understand. You know, I could talk about the mental health diagnosis, undiagnosed, ADHD and autism, are you are you autistic.

Hawley 30:49
So I don't have an official diagnosis. I'm self diagnosed my I have been, I would call it clinically, like couched diagnosed by a therapist. I haven't taken any official assessments. And I'm not sure I'm going to, because that has ramifications as well. But my daughter who's 10 has been in therapy since she was three. And, as is very common, I'm learning for mothers, as they are helping their children get the support and services they need. And they they go down that research tunnel to support their child, they start relating to a lot of things and realize that they're looking in a little mini mirror. And so my daughter is on a waitlist, the place here that does assessments, there's, you know, months long, like 910 months to get in to be assessed. She most likely has what they call pathological demand avoidance. Here in the US, a lot of kids get diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder, which is something she's been diagnosed with, but doesn't have. She has PDA which is like a under the umbrella of autism. It's a really interesting, it's a cat at the they use it as a diagnostic criteria in the UK. We don't have it here. But what does it mean? Pathological demand avoidance, like, what does that what does that?

Scott Benner 32:25
Yeah, what does it translate to for her behavior?

Hawley 32:28
So she has a very high drive for autonomy. And she has, sorry, I had an alert go off, you're fine. She is demand avoidant, but is very bright and capable. They're frequently seen as manipulative and, like argumentative, because they really want to avoid basic demands, like teeth brushing hygiene, when even just asking a question feel like a demand. And so there's all of this opposition ality, but it's usually sometimes creatively addressed. It also means she has like, she really sees herself as someone who should have exactly the same rights as an adult and doesn't understand, like, why kids don't have the same freedom as adults. And to be fair, she has the right a lot of the time. I mean, like, but yeah, so it's,

Scott Benner 33:35
like a real world example of it happening. When's the last time you've you? Did it happen? You thought, Oh, this is that.

Hawley 33:43
So I'm learning, the more I learn about it. I'm learning. You learn to identify, and I'm still working on that. But like, eating is really a struggle, and the demand around making food choices and even like restaurants, we have many of her meltdowns happen in the car, like you've already got the stimulus of being in the car transitions are hard. And then now we need to make a choice. And so if it if it can't, it's like, sometimes she'll just completely ignore me. Because she doesn't want to answer the question because she doesn't want to make the choice. She's having anxiety about making the choice. And then she goes from kind of avoidant right to them, her fight or flight kicks in, and she suddenly seems kind of mean. And then I realize she's near meltdown, and she might burst into tears and start crying and saying like, I don't know, I'm just so hungry. I can't think straight. I don't want to make a choice. And you just have to, like, it's um, I don't I don't know, there's, there's, I don't want to say nuance that, like, I'm still learning to identify it. And it's complicated because she's so good at masking and appearing as if everything is okay. I'm still taken aback sometimes by a meltdown, because I don't realize she's been stressed. And I missed her cues. And, and then we're full blown meltdown. Like, yeah, so

Scott Benner 35:37
how frequent? Are they?

Hawley 35:40
Sorry, I'm like, No, you're fine. I'm managing emotions here. But you're just she. So we actually just decided to homeschool. She went back to school for three days after winter break. And she came home. And it's something we've talked about for a while. But she had a meltdown about going back to school and, like, ran me through what that experience was like for her. And I just was like, no, no, no more like, why are we? Why are we doing this, because when she's in school, every night, and every morning is preparing for bed and preparing for school are because that's when all the demands are right, get up, get ready, brush your teeth, put on clothes, you need to eat something, you've got to get dressed, you got to get up. And I have been in childcare, huge chunk of my life, and usually do so good with kids. And then I worked for a nonprofit, and did all of this Conscious Discipline training and early childhood training and education. And I just thought that there, what was wrong with me that I couldn't help my child and the way it could help these other children, and her meltdowns are less frequent. Now, she's on Prozac and on Ritalin, and it has been life altering for us, like life altering. Prior to that she was having self harm thoughts. And at like 677 Was she seven somewhere in I think maybe seven. But, you know, so it's way better than it was, but it's still somewhat frequent, which is why we're removing school, because I want to see if it helps,

Scott Benner 37:38
okay, does anything help this was mask

Hawley 37:42
lowering demands, like, so when she goes to school, she, what they call masks, right. So she knows how she's supposed to act. She knows she, she feels that she can't be herself at school, she told me, she told me she feels like a book. Like she needs to look pretty on the outside, but no one knows what's actually on the inside. So she goes, and she said that at school, you can't really have emotions, except for happy or calm, like you. They don't want you to be upset or sad, you know, and they just kind of want you to pretend like everything's okay, even if it's not. And then you have all the stimulus, you know, for her 504 accommodation, she asked if they could put a box in the room that she could go close herself into when she got overwhelmed. And, and so the demands of school, whether it be sensory, you know, or whatever, because it's not academically, you know, scoring is all high. It's, it's all the other social navigating, and following the all of that stuff. And so I'd pick her up, and she would, more than a typical child would just fall out and basically lose it. Because she had used all of her energy all day to do all the right things at school. Just since she's been home, I've seen more of a willingness to help around the home, pick up after herself. She did self LED reading for an hour and a half, she normally would not do that. So I'm hoping that this is what helps that by taking her out of that environment that was causing her to be depleted every day that she has the reserves to then do other things. So that's my hope.

Scott Benner 39:51
Okay, is this a thing that you've seen change over time with her she gets older or no,

Hawley 39:57
I've known there was some thing going on again since she was about three, and it has changed for the better. But because because the more verbal she got, the more she learned through therapy and through us just really were working. And she has all the language now and the ability and because her brain is supported with that anxiety medicine, instead of just losing it like she might have before she can verbalize and say, I just can't. I you know, whatever it like whatever she she can verbalize sometimes prior to melting down so we can head off a meltdown. Because it versus before it might be she was just losing her mind. Sorry, that's not I shouldn't say it that way. But like, for me, it would feel like out of nowhere, why is my child you know, just having this huge thing. And now that I know what I know it, you know, it makes sense. But back then it didn't. And I would just be like what's wrong, you know? So, so there has been a change for the positive with with time.

Scott Benner 41:15
Do you have any of the issues that she has? Yeah. Yeah. Which ones?

Hawley 41:22
My parents used to say, you know, if you ever want a surefire way to get you know, Holly to to do something is to tell her she can't do it. So I definitely have opposition. ality right. Anxiety. And her and I both are very literal, and high justice thinkers, you know, high sense of fairness and justice, like the world not being fair, it's very difficult for us. We're both we both thing and like to perform and use that as a way to self regulate. You know, we have we have a lot of similarities. I'm still, I mean, heck, I'm 40. And I'm still figuring out, I just feel like I'm just learning about myself some of these things.

Scott Benner 42:25
Now. Does it impact your life? Does it impede your adult life?

Hawley 42:29
Yes. I mean, yes, and yes, and no, yes. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I look back and think, oh, my gosh, what would life have been like, if I'd known from the get go? I, you know, like, I'm on Ritalin now and Prozac. My, my daughter did the gene site testing where they test for which medicines may have, you know, interactions with the, with her body. And I've had poor response to most meds throughout my life. I've tried lots of different antidepressants, etc. And so I thought, well, she's half me, so maybe that the same medicine might work for me and guess what they do? So I'm now on Prozac and Ritalin and they've been helpful.

Scott Benner 43:29
Good before them, what an after them what? For you. Before them you felt like fill in the blank soon.

Hawley 43:38
Okay. All right before Prozac. I didn't realize the amount of anxiety I was having, because I had always had it. So I thought that was just what it felt like to be alive. Okay. After a specific example, pet sitting in a home, my daughter put a hot, slightly damp paper plate on a dark table and made a white stain. And, sure, normally, I think I would have had, like, my heart would have started racing, and I would have frantically Googled how to fix it. And instead, I looked at it, and I was like, Uh, I know, I can figure out how to fix that. I'll get to it. And then like, two days later, I did Google it, and then I fixed it. But before it would have been, like, panic thoughts of the client wanting to fire me, they're gonna leave a Google review. They're gonna, you know, never whatever, and we've ruined their table and how much is that table and I would have just spun into all these. Now this would be quiet and internal. Right? But, but it would have been rapid thoughts about all the things that the consequences and instead I just was able to look at it and be like, oh, and Oh, that safer stocks about we can figure it out. And if not, I have insurance, I'm insured and bonded, and it'll pay for a new table. And that would not have been the response before.

Scott Benner 45:11
Hey, real quick, what is the way to fix the steam rank on the table?

Hawley 45:14
So there were a couple of different options. I think I went with Magic Eraser lightly. And there were other ones that were like, you could like lay up cloth and iron, use an iron and it would evaporate it. I just went with a light buffing with a magic magic eraser and it brought the brought it right off. Interesting. And then I oil I avoided and clean the table very nicely. And it looks great. Look Good. Did you tell the people? No, I did not tell

Scott Benner 45:42
them what to do. Okay, so So by figuring out her stuff, you're helping yourself and figuring out your stuff as well. Yes, going back before you knew these things about yourself, you you have a list here to talk about diabetes with like intimate partners. So what are some of the things that you ran into in your earlier life?

Hawley 46:06
Oh, I think that was like after dark. I don't know if he wanted. I just I don't know exactly what you're hoping from this. But the first thing that comes to mind for me is that I. Now granted, I do think my brain is a little different. But so many women worry about their devices and their bodies, and, and, you know, sexual intimacy with partners. And that being, you know, not sexy. And anytime I've ever, because I wear my stuff on my arms visible all the time, you know, I just have never hidden it. And I've been on a pump since 2005, I believe. And I had a boyfriend and like, he didn't care and it didn't. Were there like the moments of Hang on, I need to disconnect and whatever. But he just, it didn't matter. And I've just always said, you know, like, if you're with sub, first of all, I think they care a lot less than you think they do. Because the you know, the sex is the golden boy. Right? And if you're having a sex, I don't think they care that you got a tube on your belly, they don't see me wearing a clown feet, I wouldn't care. They don't care, first of all your way giving them too much credit. And second of all, you know, if they do care about something like that, that is not a partner that you want in your life, correct? Yeah. And I just especially young women, I think, although really that's not fair. It's it's it's any but newly diagnosed is what I shouldn't say, worry about that. And you just that is something if I could just give them confidence to know that the partner that you want that you want to be with does not care. I wish they could really know that in their heart because it breaks my heart when women worry about that.

Scott Benner 48:09
Anybody I saw on the private Facebook group, just recently, a man asked the same questions, was very worried that a woman wouldn't love him because he had diabetes, and talked about all the number of these different things. Yeah, I think I think maybe it's something anybody might feel so well. It's nice to to share that. That. That you so did you find somebody that didn't care long term? Or? I mean, you're a single parent, right? How did that all work out?

Hawley 48:37
Well, none of my boyfriend's have ever cared. I will i i will say I have figured out like, what is my blood sugar? Hang on just a

Scott Benner 48:50
little jittery? Am I making your blood sugar go up or down?

Hawley 48:53
No, I'm 140 straight across. So

Scott Benner 48:59
difficult to talk about this stuff where you

Hawley 49:02
know, I've just I think caffeine is kicking in because I've made a cup of coffee before thing. But sometimes caffeine jitters can feel a little bit like am I dipping down for me? Like if I'm dropping fast, that kind of food. Caffeine can because I haven't caffeine on an on an empty stomach. So those two things can feel a little similar. Gotcha. But no, it's not difficult. At least not so far. The other thing with you know, I have experienced like intimate partner domestic violence and I diabetes will really anything can be used against you but like I definitely just wanted to mention that like anyone making you feel sad about things out of your control that have to do with your chronic illness or your health. Like they're, they're not coming from a good place, like, like, because I luckily never had anyone and never, he never withheld access to medicine, he never like that. It's very odd how these relationships can be really wonderful. Like, you know, 80% great, but then the 20% is really, really bad, you know. And that kind of the tricky thing about them and why you get stuck in them sometimes for a while, is that there's a lot of good sometimes. But there there are things like even someone who like if you need help, and you need someone to bring you something because your blood sugar's low, and they're unwilling to walk down the stairs and get that and they make you feel like bad about putting that on them that you needed help to get, you know, to get something that's that's a flag. So just, you know, pay attention to those things, and how they make you feel about it. That's that's kind of the the I think that's why I put intimate partner stuff because I have had, yeah, some of that.

Scott Benner 51:16
Have you had any issues? Or I guess that's not the right way to ask the question. Like, what what's your approach been with intimacy since you had a mastectomy? Does that change things?

Hawley 51:28
Not really. It's again, ladies. I can't say no man. Not having nipples is not a deterrent from getting laid. They don't care. I have Barbie boobs. There are no nipples. They don't care. Self Care.

Scott Benner 51:48
Holly, are you here to say the vagina is really the important part.

Hawley 51:52
I I'm gonna say for a lot at this seems to be the important part. It's funny. Right? The I just, I mean, I'm covered in scars, and I feel like a bionic lady. I've got a port in my top of my chest area. And I've got, you know, two devices strapped onto me all the time. And, you know, like, it just doesn't matter. It really doesn't. And is your death

Scott Benner 52:25
is your is your port for the for the cancer still?

Hawley 52:29
Yeah, so one of my friends had breast cancer about I want to say two years prior to me, and she had said that she held on to her port, because post treatment, she actually ended up using it quite a bit for different things, fluid and some other stuff. And she said, she had decided to leave it in until the five year mark. And when I had my port placement, it was out of all the surgeries, it was very painful. For me, it was very, I don't know why. But it was horrible. And I also had had so many surgeries, I was just burnt out on having surgeries. They said as long as I do port flushes that I can leave it in as long as I want. And I tend to suffer with I get dehydrated just really easily. I don't really know why but I do. And so the port has actually been helpful. My oncologist is wonderful shout out to Dr. tribe. And then he will just call me in a bag of fluids. And let me go in and I can just go to the infusion suite and get fluids and it's been I wish that was more accessible to more people because as a diabetic that has been hugely valuable for me.

Scott Benner 53:52
You're talking just about a saline like to get hydrated or other things.

Hawley 53:56
No, just just usually, you know, failing. Whatever. Whatever. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 54:04
Yeah. Your your, your list of things. You sent me an email, it says after dark or whatever. And like your list of things on here are fascinating. Like I feel like we would make seven left turns but I kind of want to go through a couple of them more quickly. Is that Is that okay? Absolutely. Go ahead. What does this mean running for office?

Hawley 54:24
I ran for state public office.

Scott Benner 54:27
Did you get elected?

Hawley 54:29
I did not but but in a red state. I lost by a lot less than other people.

Scott Benner 54:39
What was the thing that made you want to run for what office did you run for and what made you want to do it?

Hawley 54:45
I ran for state representative and district Ada and I will so I was putting myself back through school again. In right, this time with a child as a single parent, and I experienced God, when was that I think I had my daughter. And right around when I had my daughter's when the Affordable Health Care Act passed, okay, I was able to apply for insurance, it took forever, but I was covered. I was very lucky that my parents paid an exorbitant amount of money to help me have insurance coverage until that point. Okay, so let me just say that the privilege that but so since then, kind of like post baby is when I've been kind of on my own, shall we say, right, though, 10 years, I had to navigate what applying for Medicaid and the Affordable Health Care Act and snap, which is like the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program here in the state of Arkansas. And I just as a person who's very efficient and likes things to be very functional, I was completely confused by how horrible the system was for people to get what they needed. Meaning like insurance coverage or whatever, just like things like, Okay, well, I'm pretty bright. And the what's the average literacy, you know, level for the state of Arkansas something like eighth grade or something? Well, it's, it's pretty low. Okay. And so they're sending out forms that are so purposefully obtuse, that I was, like, thin taking pictures and sending them and being like, read this, what does this mean to you? You know, so to me, it felt like a trap. And I thought, if I'm struggling this much, like, and I have, you know, post secondary education and a high reading comprehension level, how are they expecting your average, just your average Joe? To navigate? I don't know. So I started there. And then I won't go into politics. But then some other things happened that made me feel like we needed people who could see both sides of a situation and could really listened to people and make choices that were rational and based on science, and you know, and I kept looking around going, who can I support? Who's going to step up that I can support? And, you know, you realized at some point that if you want, if you want someone up there like you, sometimes you have to point the finger at yourself and step up and go for it?

Scott Benner 57:51
Well, I want to tell you the highest literacy rate looks like it stands with New Hampshire, and 94.2%, California and the lowest 76.9. And the truth is, is that Arkansas doesn't even fall in the top in the bottom 10. So hold on one second, but it seems like about one in every five people is below below the line of being considered literate. Generally speaking, at 6%, let me so your real concern was just for people who were being presented with things that couldn't, couldn't make enough sense of them to make a good decision for themselves.

Hawley 58:32
Yeah, I mean, that was one access to health care for me. Access to health care was hugely important to me. And I felt like people should have that they should have that. And that's, you know, I ended up working for a nonprofit where I helped people apply for those benefits, and I was able to use my own experience. And then you add in, you know, English as a second language barriers and poverty barriers, and just all sorts of things that you realize are there in the community. And, like, it just was absurd to look at the members of our state legislature that so many of them are so far removed from the average arkansan and the life that they were living like me, that they they couldn't fathom those experiences, because they either never experienced them or had been so long since they had it wasn't real to them anymore. It didn't feel real.

Scott Benner 59:38
What do you do to run for state legislator, like you have to like, you have to get enough for like signatures right on a petition and then you know, how do you run How do you run them? What is that you

Hawley 59:50
five to run you? You decide to run and then you know you declare whatever party you're gonna run for you probably reach out to your County, you know, party committee and let them know you're interested in running, you have to be registered with them, you know. And then if there's another person who's of the same party you are, you would primary against them, you have to file you have to fundraise a filing fee in the state of Arkansas, different states are different. But like, in where I was, no one had run under the party I was under for I forget how many years so the filing fee was lower, because they were trying to encourage someone to run right. So you file go down to the Capitol, and there's filing day and you turn in your paperwork and sign all the official documents and and then you are an official candidate for your

Scott Benner 1:00:45
door or you do something online? How do you reach people?

Hawley 1:00:49
Oh, do you mean on filing day or

Scott Benner 1:00:54
while you're running? You're trying to get people to, to be interested in what you're saying? How do you get to them?

Hawley 1:00:59
Well, that's entire people's jobs to do field management, campaign management, digital marketing and outreach. So essentially, you know, so my degree is communication, right. And that's what I ended up doing. Because I just find people fascinating and communication fascinating. Essentially, you make a plan. And if you're lucky, you have some resources and support from your county party or state party that tell you maybe some avenues to do that. You can hire campaigns man and campaign manager, you know, with your own money if you can sell fund, but if not, you have to campaign like fine, like raise enough to pay your campaign manager. And I didn't have any money. So I paid for mine by fundraising, which is essentially cold calling people you know, and asking for donations or reaching out to people through networking and asking if they'd support your campaign. And you use that money to run a campaign that ideally reaches the voters who you most need to reach and you know that through basically data, mining data and finding the voters that you need. So you have you have canvassing, actually door knocking, you have print mail, digital write outreach, you also have social media outreach. And then in person outreach, you do, and you know, and then you're also going to be hopefully doing interviews with local media in some way. So it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing.

Scott Benner 1:02:35
Interesting. That's very interesting.

Hawley 1:02:38
It was it was a wonderful learning experience.

Scott Benner 1:02:40
No, really, it sounds kind of incredible. I'm going to ask you, if there's anything we haven't talked about, that you want to talk about?

Hawley 1:02:48
I think, you know, we didn't we started to talk about drinking and then kind of went away from it. Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 1:02:53
after drinking, you got where you said you had you were surrounded by drugs. Were you doing them?

Hawley 1:02:59
No, not really. I'm afraid of most of them. You know, I was a bartender and lived like a bartender lifestar style for many years. And, you know, was a smoker, I smoked and, you know, have quit and started and quit and started and, you know, I just, again, think diabetes, there's so much shame around what you're not supposed to do. And I think that's such a heavy thing to carry. With drinking. I guess specifically, I wanted, you know, people to know that they're in there. I think it's a lot more known now. Because we have peer sharing, like like in your group, right? The Facebook group, if you're not in the Facebook group, shout out go get in the Facebook group, but like that peer to peer sharing that is there. Now we didn't have that. Like I only knew two other three, three other diabetics maybe growing up, or? Yeah, I mean, you know, that was it. That were around my age. And so everything I did was kind of like, okay, I noticed when I drained my blood sugar trends low after I stopped drinking and like go to bed and then you know, that was on MDI, well, now then you have the pump in there, and it's like, okay, so I'm going to turn my Basal down by 30% from 2am to 6am. While I'm sleeping and because i You don't anyway, so like, there are definitely things you can do. But you need to be safe in trialing and to see what works for your body because everyone responds to different alcohols differently. And I also really encourage you to talk to your bartenders at the bartender. You know, like I always if I'm going in, I make friends with the bar Our tenders and I let I want you to know they can be on your team. Not I mean, I tell them I'm diabetic, I let them know, like, this is, you know, this doesn't happen to me, but I've never had a seizure. But if I did, this is what you should do. You know, and I and I, and I do that. And I think if you're young, like, don't be afraid to just go and mention that because for me, it's like, you're better off running over and letting them know that because that also means that when my blood sugar did go low, that I could walk up and say something, and when I just needed a half a cup of orange juice, they just gave me a half a cup of orange juice. And we're like, here you go, you know, and they they believe you when you need help, because you've already told them that before your four sheets to the wind, whatever.

Scott Benner 1:06:00
So tell, did you do this for people when you were attending bar? Did nobody ever asked you?

Hawley 1:06:06
Meaning? No, I don't think I think I did have some people because again, once I started wearing a deck calm, it was more visible. But that happened later. I don't know. I can't remember I did definitely give someone who said they were hypoglycemic or excuse before, but I don't think I've ever had another type one come up. But I did save one gal who was type one who I knew loosely. And I walked into a bathroom and she was basically hugging a toilet had a ramshackle TR on and it was her 21st birthday. And her friends came in and they were like, oh my god, are you still throwing up and and I said, Hey, you know, She's diabetic. Have you guys checked her blood sugar? Because I knew her. I knew her prior. So I knew she was diabetic. And they said, Well, we've been given her juice. And I was like, Well, did you check her blood sugar? Because if it's high, you don't need to be given her juice. Like what kind of shots has she been taking, like sweet shots are straight, like what? And so I helped prick her finger. And the bodyguard wanted to carry her out. And he didn't want me to do anything like on premises. And I told him to back off, and that I was going to check her blood sugar at least before he tried to move or anywhere. And it was like 480 You know, it was just like, sky high. And he wouldn't let me give her insulin on premises. And I think I helped them out to the car. And I said you guys need to they were all drunk. And none of them knew how to take care of her. And I said, you know, I'm not I think I gave her like a tiny Bolus, like how she was able to kind of talk to me and I gave her like a mini those, like, not a full dose. But, and I said someone needs to say with or whatever. And she's, she's fine. I've seen her since then. And she thanked me. But like, you know, that's why I say if your crew doesn't know what to do, then, I mean, there are consequences that can come with that. And that's, you know, drinking can be scary, but it can also be safe.

Scott Benner 1:08:29
Well, I appreciate you bringing all this up. I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing this you have had a fairly eclectic life for it not being very long. So funny. You're not that old. There's stuff on here I didn't get to. i i How do you describe how you're doing? I think this is how I kind of want to end like how do you feel like you're doing with your diabetes, for example?

Hawley 1:08:53
pretty phenomenal. Yeah. Okay. Like I have of all the health things that I managed. What's interesting is I thought I was not doing a good job. I went to see my endocrinologist and he had a med student in the room with him and I said oh my god, my blood sugar's have been horrible. He of course this was a onesie right so whatever. But so he shows the swivels the screen to the med student, and he says, This is what she thinks it's horrible. I mean, he says these are her last Awan seeds from the last however many, you know, polls, and the eyebrows go up on the student and I thought, Oh God, it's that bad. He laughed and he said no, like, you're great. You're, you know, I have always micromanaged my diabetes. And I'm like a manual micromanager, you know, bump bump and nudge bump and nudge all that stuff. Now I'm on the Omnipod five, and it has been a huge relief. I sleep much better. My I like the other day Hey, I think I got the highest time and range I've had which Yeah, which was like 88%. Time and range is terrific. But like, I think my average is probably more like high, high 70s. You know, low 80s is probably more, I don't know, what's your

Scott Benner 1:10:16
range that?

Hawley 1:10:17
I don't know what I have it at right now I change it sometimes, depending on how much mental energy I have. Okay, how much do I want my devices to yell at me today? You know? Yeah, I think I have it like between, like 180. And no, I haven't higher, I have it at 210. Because the other day I had ketones. And I just was sitting between 180 and 205. And I was at work and my thing kept going off. And I needed it to stop. And so I bumped it up, I'm going to change that back down. So I mess with mine a little bit. Because, you know, it really sucks the life out of you. Sometimes if you're trying to manage something, and it won't stop for me, especially I think probably with sensory issues. Having an alert going off becomes like near rage inducing. You just want to throw it across the room and like shut up. I know, I've already done all the things.

Scott Benner 1:11:15
But I've done all the things.

Hawley 1:11:20
I've already done all the things I know it's still at 180 Quit yelling at me. But in general, my diabetes is great. But it's also the thing that absolutely takes the most out of you, I think for just constant surveillance. You know, someone asked me about cancer, and I said, Oh, God, you know, type one diabetes, it was harder than cancer like, yeah, I could I could have died. But like, you know how many times you face death as a diabetic? Like just all the time? You know, so like, the cancer thing was scary. Yeah, that's terrifying. But like, you go through the horrible thing, and then you do the chemo. And yes, it's horrible, too. But in my mind, the burden of diabetes management was worse than that cancer experience.

Scott Benner 1:12:10
That's a interesting perspective. For sure.

Hawley 1:12:13
Well, it's lifelong. I mean, it's lifelong, right.

Scott Benner 1:12:16
Now, I take your point, I really do. And I appreciate you sharing all your perspectives, and helping me dig into this stuff with your daughter and yourself and, and shining some light on some things I don't know a lot of people really think about or have ever heard of so?

Hawley 1:12:32
Well, I still would, I would love for you and Arden to do an assessment to figure out your neurology. I'm highly curious and intrigued

Scott Benner 1:12:41
about me. Yeah. So what about me?

Hawley 1:12:44
When I listen to your episodes, and you talk with other people who are neurodivergent and have other things, it's funny, I lost my notes. Of course I did. Because I usually listen on roads when I'm driving. And so it's hard to, you know, whatever. But I, I've heard you say things and you said, well, doesn't everybody do that? And I'm like, No, Scott, everybody doesn't do that. So I am curious, like to see what kind of scoring you guys would have with things like that? Like what like what's like it like it like an official like ADHD autism assessment with like, you know, whether online or with whatever. I'm very curious. Do you remember the episode where you said, you didn't know why you were good at this? I forget who you were talking to. But you said, once we start rolling, I just can do it. And I feel like, I don't know, you have said several different things. What really resonated with me. And I've just been very curious to know, especially with Arden's unique sense of humor. But anyway, I will private business, I am super curious,

Scott Benner 1:13:53
listen, let me I'll share something with you. And we'll see if you think I'm making sense or not. I think that because of the, the, the the structure that is set up here, right, like I'm a, like a voice in your head. And there are so many episodes and we feel like we know each other. And I think people listen, and they think they know me. And I think that they take things that I hear and apply them to themselves sometimes, which I think is, is good. It's how it's how you set up a trust relationship. When it's only one way because honestly, you're speaking to me now. But prior to that, I've speak I've spoken to you a lot and you've never spoken to me. So I mean, if you have questions, you could ask them, anybody could come on and ask questions about me, but I I don't think I'm on the autism spectrum. I don't think I have ADHD. And but people say Oh, I you definitely have ADHD. Like I hear that from people all the time when you talk to them a little bit. They have ADHD and they think that they've heard something in me that relates to them and because As they have ADHD I have ADHD, that just sort of seems how it goes. Like, as I've done this for a while, I've also, you know, I'm trying to be humorous at times, right? I'm trying to keep it interesting, and things like that. So I say funny things, or I tried to say it's not funny things. You know, like, I don't know that somebody who would like make a pot, like I was listening to a podcast the other day. So I heard about this podcast, I don't want to be specific about who it was. And this person has a podcast, they were on somebody else's podcast, this is a big thing that podcasters do when they're trying to drive traffic to their podcasts. I don't do that. And I'm gonna sound like pompous for a second. I don't do that, because I don't need to drive traffic to my podcast. But I also don't do that, because I don't find other people's podcasts. Let me be clear, it's not that I've heard them and don't like them. I make a podcast that I would listen to. And there are not a lot of them that are like this. And in the space of diabetes, specifically, I don't think there's any, but I got interested for a second, I heard this person say that this one podcaster went on this other podcasters podcast, and they wanted to hear about it. And I start to listen. And it was painfully boring to me. And the host, clearly was reading from a list. Right? And they would it reminded me very much of watching the Tonight Show with like, you know, where the, the host is like, so I hear you've had an experience at the zoo. Holly, and you're and you're a you're a comedian, you go, Well, yeah. And then you start telling a joke about the zoo. And like, I set them up, and you knock them down, and I set them up. And I don't really have any questions. And I'm not really listening to what you're saying, I'm just waiting for you to finish the zoo story. So I can go to the second thing on my list and say something else, that puts you into your act a little bit. And that's what I was hearing. I was hearing this person had come on the show, they had clearly spoken beforehand, they had clearly written down a list of things to talk about. The host would say, you know, number one, I hear you had an incident at the zoo recently. And then the person being interviewed launched into a story that you could tell, she had told a million times. And then there was a pause. And then the host was like, Well, that was interesting. And I'm thinking to myself, No, it wasn't. And then they asked the next question. And then, and then they asked the next question. And then the the guest launched into another prepackaged story that I bet you they've told 1000 times to somebody. And it kept going on and on and on. No, no, it kept going on and on. And I thought, how could anyone listen to this? And then I realized that the podcast that they were on had already basically been discontinued. And I thought, oh, there's your answer. Nobody was listening to it. And then I thought, well, this is why my podcast doesn't fall into this category is because when you get on, I don't know who you are. And we're getting to know each other. And I'm interested, either I'm interested in what you're saying. And it makes me think to ask a question, or as you're talking, I think, well, this is really something I can't add to, and I let you talk. Sometimes people come on, and they're not good talkers, and I have to fill a little more for them. But that's pretty much it. But I don't know why I told you that other than to say, I don't plan this podcast, but I don't not plan this podcast because I have ADHD. I don't plan this podcast because it would suck if I did.

Hawley 1:18:33
No, yes. No. And that's not what you were saying. It's just where I went with it. Yes, I, I just have noticed. And I'd be interested, I would love it. If he would talk to someone, there's just a huge overlap and like auto immune, and, you know, sure, then this neurological stuff and inflammation. And I I love, I just appreciate so much that you're bringing people on and letting them talk about all these different things because they do so frequently overlap. And I think it's really important because like, the more you know, and configure out the better you can, you know, manage and improve your quality. You know, yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:19:13
1,000,000% agree with that. I think that's obvious. It's because it's what I do, but, but I do. I do think of this other part of it like for you say again, how

Hawley 1:19:23
old are you? 40

Scott Benner 1:19:24
Okay, I've spoken to you now for an hour and 22 minutes, you have done nothing that makes me think you're on the autism spectrum. And why and how's your life going? Is it okay? Are you do you have like some major impediment that you need to know? Like, like, what, what if you were What if you had autism? Would that change something for you?

Hawley 1:19:45
If so, the only So, as an autistic person for me, the biggest thing has been looking back at past experience and making sense of things that I couldn't explain before. And now make sense. And it also allows me to make changes about the choices I make in my life and allowing myself more grace with things where before I probably would have beat myself up about them, like, sorry, I'm getting emotional again, like, like, I'm learning that, you know, it's like, like, there's not something wrong with you. And that there's a reason you feel so strongly or did something in the past, you know, like, like, I was bullied pretty relentlessly, like, like, in and always feeling other, like different and, and going, I don't get it. I don't really look that different. I'm, I'm, I'm funny. I'm smart, like, I'm reasonably attractive. Why do I feel like nobody gets me like, it has helped me and is helping me understand my whole life. So it is very important to me to know it. Not that not that other people know it. I don't I don't need the official diagnosis. Because just learning what I've learned, has changed. Me and my life. I know.

Scott Benner 1:21:17
So I understand what you're saying. So let me ask you a follow up question. So if getting a diagnosis, for example, wouldn't change you moving forward? Right? It would give you context for looking back. But what if I just said to you, Holly, that's who you are. There's your context. Is that not okay?

Hawley 1:21:35
Can you expand on that Mr. Hawley, that's who you are. That's who you

Scott Benner 1:21:39
are, that this is who you are. And this is how you interacted with people. And it's how you felt when you had those interactions. And you had these experiences, and you thought to launch yourself into those experiences, because that's how your brain works. And so my question is, is that it feels like, and this is not directed at UCI, I never want to say this on the podcast, because I'm not directing it at you. I'm directing it at like society as a big picture. Everyone feels like they want to get diagnosed with something all of a sudden. Does that? No, did you notice that in culture right now.

Hawley 1:22:12
So it is, I think, I think that there has, because of things like tick tock and social media, it's not that everyone wants to get diagnosed, it's that there's a level of awareness that was not there prior. And people are just like, we relate with our diabetes, and we reach out and people seek support because of this diabetes diagnosis. You're you're drawn to other people who have similar experiences to you, whether you know it or not, that algorithm is working to do that, right. And so then you realize that those things that you didn't know are actually a thing with a label, and it suddenly makes sense. And so I don't think it's that there's a desire to have a label or to be diagnosed with something, I think it's that people are like, Oh, my God, I, I'm 40 years old, and I just realized, I've lived my whole life. And all of these things are intertwined. And they're making sense of themselves. And there's also the I mean, this has been coming for a while because I think mental health advocacy has been on the rise and more of an openness, about sharing about mental health. And so bit by bit as we're people lose this stigma and talk about it more, they're not just talking about mental health, they're talking about these other things. And so it's just that we're seeing the result of younger generations that are more comfortable talking about it, you know, doing that, and then it kind of like, I don't know, women didn't used to wear pants and to normalize wearing pants, you have to have a lot of people like wearing pants, and then and then it's normal and, like

Scott Benner 1:24:03
so. Okay, so let me let me keep going. Right? So have you ever been online and seen somebody like say something like, oh my god, I'm sorry, that's my ADHD. And you're like, you don't have ADHD, just something like took your attention for a second, or you know, somebody, you know, I have PTSD, and then you start talking to him about it, and they don't have PTSD. They just something bad happened to them once. And it feels like it's from my perspective, just from the outside looking in, or just being a, you know, an observer. I'm not saying everybody, I'm saying that it feels like people want to, like they want to have a reason for everything they are. My point is, is that if we isn't then that just normal, because if everybody's got a little ADHD and everybody's had something bad happened to them that you know, colors, how they move forward. And I mean, anxiety is an example like, anxiety is what keeps you alive, right? Like sometimes it's crippling. thing, but but everybody has some level of anxiety. So if everybody has this and everybody has that everybody has this, and I don't always feel like a boy. And like, if all that exists for everybody, then isn't that what normal is? If everybody feels that way?

Hawley 1:25:14
Well, what you describe to me is sounds like when someone who doesn't actually know what ADHD is, or they're being like they're throwing around a term like I have, oh, well, but I'm kind of OCD about cleaning. But they don't literally mean OCD, right? They know that that's like a misuse of a term, right? There's that. And then there's someone who's, like, for me, I have decided to be open about my stuff. And I tell people, like, hey, when we get off the phone, I'm gonna set a reminder to call you back about this tomorrow, because I have ADHD. And I'm also going to put it in my calendar. But if you don't hear from me, will you please touch base with me by five? So like, that's me communicating a specific thing I'm doing to prevent my ADHD from sabotaging something, and also set myself up for success. It's a coping tool, you know, it's a thing that I've done to improve my, my, my life, right. Yeah. So I don't know, I, I don't think it's, I think that it's not normal, whatever normal, whatever the hell that means. But I think that it is probably something that there's a much larger percent of the population that has it that like, or, but but has gone undiagnosed for a long time, you know, so we're just going to, it's going to seem like there's a lot more people, when in reality, it's just that they're just figuring it out.

Scott Benner 1:26:52
So are you. So I'm, I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit here. But I don't think we should get to the point where forgetting to return a phone call is a diagnosable disorder.

Hawley 1:27:05
No, but that, that is not that is not

Scott Benner 1:27:08
what you're saying, though, like you're saying that is completely possible for you to get distracted in a way that you will forget something that's very important. Yes, yes. That is, I'm gonna say something that you're gonna laugh at. You don't think that happens to everybody?

Hawley 1:27:23
No, I think that I think that what you have to look at is like, frequency, intensity, and like, is it negatively impacting your life in a real way? So like, everyone has, you know, everyone has anxiety, but how much is it negatively impacting their life? How is it impacting their ability to function, when you have, you know, when you might be a kind of forgetful person who occasionally Miss places their key, you know, but like, my, my ex, not my daughter's dad, but my recent ex boyfriend, who is still a very dear close friend, his was negatively impacting his life to the point where like, you know, he's we're getting forget lost, like, all multi times a day, car doors were being left open with a key in the door, like pots were being left on and the food was burning. Like, there's a, you have to look at severity of the impact and like frequency,

Scott Benner 1:28:26
definitely a spectrum of all this, all these things live on a spectrum. And, and obviously, if they're being I mean, if they're that significant, that they're impacting you, there's something you should probably try to do about it. I'm saying that in general, people are throwing themselves into, into into things constantly, like, like, oh, I have ADHD when you don't have it? Or you don't you mean, because you get distracted once in a while, and everyone gets distracted once? Well, that's not the same as somebody leaving their car door on, you know, five days a week leaving the burner on because they walk away and just don't think they come back. Those are obvious differences. But yeah, yes,

Hawley 1:29:04
I think I think those people don't understand that it's a it's an ignorance factor, that they just don't understand what that actually means. And they're misusing it, unfortunately. And it makes it you know,

Scott Benner 1:29:17
yeah, I'm cognitive of it, because a person brought it up to me one time that that said, Look, I have PTSD, like crippling, PTSD, and bothersome to me when I hear somebody say, because, you know, I don't know, they were around and some fireworks went off and they didn't realize it, and they're like, I have PTSD from the fireworks thing. Like, that's like not the same thing. And so, I don't know I'm always very interested in in this idea, and of just like social contagions to begin with, like things that get said so many times that people are like, Oh, that's happening to me. And then if they were assessed at Currently people would be like, No, that's not happening to you. Like, it's interesting how it just feels to me, not people who actually, I want to make sure Holly that I'm being clear, not people who actually are afflicted with these issues. But the rest of them. It sometimes it feels like people just really want to be special and belong to something, and will throw themselves in with things that are even not thought of as positive. Because I don't know, I don't know why Trust me, I have no idea. It's just an observation. So Well, I

Hawley 1:30:30
mean, desire for a sense of belonging is a pretty powerful thing. And I could totally see someone doing that. And it's just misguided. But I think when you like, so like, for me, it wasn't something that I was necessarily seeking or trying to do what happened because it was pushed in my face with my own kid, that I couldn't ignore it any longer. And, you know, so you're gonna, you're always gonna have all the assholes ruining it for everybody else. But we got to you know, that's I just think it's important to talk about and especially, because there are so many autoimmune overlays and gastrointestinal issues and these other things, that to have awareness about it. Not that it's everyone's going to have that there. But that, that, that it's important to have the awareness about it, because maybe it is something going on an impact in your life. And if you knew about it, it would improve, you know, your life today have that knowledge. I

Scott Benner 1:31:33
absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. Thank you. I just I appreciate you letting me play devil's advocate and ask a bigger question that I don't think really has an answer. I just think it's interesting to talk about.

Hawley 1:31:42
Yeah, well, I appreciate I really appreciate you doing the podcast. And and I know that you know that it's impactful and important, because we tell you that but it really is. It took me a while to listen, I did the Facebook group first. And that's very helpful. But the podcasts have actually been really nice, because it does give you a sense of less isolation and feeling like sometimes your body is your own worst enemy. And letting those people be heard and letting us hear them is just, it's I'm just really glad that you're doing it's

Scott Benner 1:32:18
my pleasure. It really is. Thank you. I appreciate you saying that very much. Yeah, I am. I really do. I think it's, I think it's something that people need. And I just didn't think it was there. And I seen other people try it. And like I said, I think that if it's not interesting, then and nobody listens to it, then it doesn't really exist. You don't I mean, you can't say like, I have a blog, if no one reads it. I mean, okay, it's there, but it's not actually doing the thing you want it to do. And I think there are a lot of entities right now who are saying, well, I'm offering this content, or I'm offering these conversations, and they're there to help people, but then a lot of them are not listable or interesting, or are discoverable. There's a lot of different reasons why people don't make it to content written, you know, video or audio, whatever. But it's nice that it's available. But if people aren't finding it and finding it, and then going, well, this is really interesting. And I'll tell someone else about this, then those things, just they die on the vine very quickly. And then nobody's nobody's been helped them.

Hawley 1:33:26
I also think it's it took me it took me a while to actually get around to utilizing the group and listening. Because first I was just in it. And then I actually, you know, so I think that that's, like you said there are different types of people that cycle through and some some always lurk, some are very active and then disappear, some etc, etc. I think being part of your group is something I hope on, you know, doing for a long time, because you do have everyone from experts to, you know, to just us right, and there's always new information and there's always even if even if it wasn't diabetes, it's nice because it is but the people sharing their stories is is interesting as well. So I've anyway, yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:34:20
agree. And I appreciate you saying thank you very much. Yeah,

Hawley 1:34:23
well, I'll let you go. I had to be at work at four so I gotta get ready for work I

Scott Benner 1:34:27
had to get out of here. I have to go buy dog food. My afternoon. It's not as interesting as yours. But I have like I said this is my third recording today. So I'm starting to hear my own voice and it's making me upset so

Hawley 1:34:40
you get a break the rest of the day off.

Scott Benner 1:34:44
I am taking the rest of the I'm not gonna think about this podcast again after I hit save after you and I are done talking so I'm definitely taking the night off. So hold on one second for me. Sure.

I want to thank Holly for coming on the show and sharing that terrific story with us. And I'd also like to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six and G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Let's not forget Omni pod. You want an omni pod dash, or an omni pod five Omni pod.com forward slash juice box when you use my links, you're supporting the podcast. So type it into a browser, Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. You can do it with your fingers. You could probably do it with your toes too, but probably easier with your fingers. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1032 After Dark: Loss of Liberty

Liberty has type 1 diabetes and her husband passed away just before this recording.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1032 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On this episode I'll be speaking with Liberty she has type one diabetes. She also has an interesting story about her husband, who passed away just prior to us recording this episode. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you're looking for Dexcom you're looking for dexcom.com forward slash juice box. If you'd like to get yourself a nominee pod Omni pod.com forward slash juice box to save 40% off your entire order at cozy earth.com Just use the offer code juice box at checkout. And of course, five free travel packs and a year supply of Vitamin D is what you get with your first order at drink ag one.com forward slash juice box. If you're looking for community around diabetes, I hope you check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. It is a completely free but private group that has over 42,000 members.

Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next.com forward slash juicebox get the same terrific meter that my daughter uses. It's accurate and lovely. And after you see it, you're gonna ask yourself why delay wait so long contour next one.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by better help. You can save 10% off your first month of therapy with my link better help.com forward slash juicebox it's time to take care of yourself get better help.

Liberty 2:08
My name is Liberty. I've been type one diabetic since I was 14 years old back in 1989. So that was 33 years ago. I don't want to have to make you do math so that I know how bad you are at it.

Scott Benner 2:21
It's unfair. Are you 45? Okay.

Liberty 2:24
No, I wish Wait. You're a couple of years. You're a couple years off. But I'm not going to tell you which way

Scott Benner 2:30
right that's fine. I think you're older. I just tried to do the math because I knew when I graduated. So anyway, not the point. You're

Liberty 2:37
I'm 47 but there there's the answer. But anyway. Yeah, so I've had diabetes for 33 years. My I actually grew up with it in my house, because my mom was diagnosed with it when she was pregnant with me. Unfortunately, she was misdiagnosed and didn't find out. It was type one until maybe 10 years ago, but she took care of it like it was type one. So I've been around the needles and insulin my whole life.

Scott Benner 3:08
Did they tell your mom Originally she was gestational?

Liberty 3:11
Yes, they did. And then she went into a coma six months later passed out for three days. She was in the hospital in a coma for three days. And after that they told her she was type two. Oh, he was only Yeah, she was only 30 years old at the time.

Scott Benner 3:26
As you heard earlier, this episode of the podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. But when you get a contour meter, what you're really getting is their test strips. Contour next test strips feature remarkable accuracy as part of the contour next blood glucose monitoring system. They're the number one branded over the counter test strips. And they of course have Second Chance sampling. Second Chance sampling can help you to avoid wasted strips, contour next.com forward slash juicebox. Near the top of the page, you'll see a Buy Now button it's bright yellow. When you click on that, you'll get eight options of places online to buy contour meters and test strips walmart.com Amazon Walgreens CVS pharmacy, Meijer, Kroger target Rite Aid. These are all links you'll find at my link linking the link links blink blink blink link. I'm just getting head over there. Now once you please listen, the contour meters are incredibly accurate. They are simple to use. They're easy to hold, easy to read, and they have a bright light for nighttime testing. Part of me wants to say that the second chance sampling is the biggest deal but honestly, it's the accuracy. These meters are accurate. And I know a lot of people like to think well I have a CGM. I don't need a meter. You do. You need a meter. You need to be accurate. You deserve it to be accurate contour annex.com forward slash juicebox. Take a look at the contour next gen and the other meters available from contour. We use my links you're supporting the production of the Show and helping to keep it free and plentiful. And so she lived with a type two diagnosis but used insulin.

Liberty 5:08
Yep. Yeah, you wouldn't believe how hard it was for her to get the type one diagnosis to, because I kept telling her because I'm like, Mom, you know, you got it when you were 30. You know, it's so common for people to get it when they're pregnant just because of the stress on the body. You know, and she wasn't like, you know, her diet wasn't bad. She wasn't overweight, or you know, there was no really reason why she should have been type two and just the way it came on with the sudden. And so I told her to tell her doctor to get tested. And he wouldn't do it. He said, I was playing Dr. Google.

Scott Benner 5:43
I think I think doctors get nervous that we can actually be decent doctors with Google Now.

Liberty 5:49
But she, she put her foot down. She was a strong woman. And she put her foot down and got the the tests done, and the doctor had to eat his words. With the antibodies. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:00
What did you give her a C peptide test?

Liberty 6:02
Yeah, something like that. He gave her the test. And it came back that she had the antibodies and she wasn't making insulin. And yeah, basically, she was type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 6:11
And that was just recently that she got that? No, no,

Liberty 6:15
that was about 10 years ago. But you know, what's funny is her brother got diagnosed correctly with type one diabetes when he was 50. And I had it and they still didn't think she had it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:28
that just sounds like hard headed.

Liberty 6:31
That's crazy. Yeah. So anyway, we're here to talk about my husband, my mom, my late husband. He was also a type one diabetic. He was also diagnosed. Yeah, I've got a lot of good diabetes stories.

Scott Benner 6:44
Liberty. Oh, hold on. Let me let me let me walk you through it. Let's take our time. Okay. All right. So you're 14 When you're diagnosed. And you meet your you meet your husband, when How old were you when you met?

Liberty 6:57
I was 30 years old are 3232 when we met at work, yeah.

Scott Benner 7:03
Okay, so you had had diabetes? almost 20 years when you met him? Oh, yeah. Okay. How would you say that those first 20 Years went for you?

Liberty 7:11
Not good. Yeah, I was really against the diabetes diagnosis. I did not accept it. I even went for a period where I didn't see a doctor for seven years, I would get all of my insulin over the counter. I would get regular and mph and just take it how they told me how to take it. And I didn't even check my blood sugar or anything through that whole time. I don't think it just went by how I felt. Yeah, it's amazing. I'm not as messed up, as you know. I think you know, yeah. Could be Yeah,

Scott Benner 7:43
I am going to say I want the newer, newer, newer diagnosed people listening. Do you think they just heard that you used to be able to buy insulin over the counter, and they were probably freaked out? What was it like? $20? A vial?

Liberty 7:55
Yeah, yeah. 25 Yeah. $25 for my end, $25 for my car. You know, the insulin syringes? I just reuse them.

Scott Benner 8:05
What did you do for syringes? Because you needed back then you need the script for the orange but not for the insulin right?

Liberty 8:11
No, I never needed a scrip for anything. No, the but I had a big ol box of syringes that I would make last anyway. But the if I would show them I had insulin and I took it and they would give me the syringes. But I grew up in a small town too. So

Scott Benner 8:25
yeah, okay. You said you were I guess what do you mean by your ignoring the diagnosis? Is that like a psychological thing? Like you just didn't want it to be true? Or I

Liberty 8:36
didn't want it? Yeah, I didn't want to be different. So I just wanted to think about diabetes, like twice a day when I take my insulin and that's it and then just live my life. Okay, like I didn't have it

Scott Benner 8:46
and somehow going to a physician would have would have been you agreeing that you had it?

Liberty 8:54
No, when I was first diagnosed, I was my mother had me go to this primary care physician and she was a general practitioner. What she wasn't it endo or anything like that. And when my blood sugar's were all off the charts and all over the place. And I was having problems managing it, she would reprimand me, she would tell me that, I'm not going to be able to have kids and I'm going to lose a leg and all that gloom and doom stuff that they always tell you, so I didn't even want to hear it. So it got me to the point where I didn't even want to go to the doctor because that's what I thought what I was that that I was going to hear. I see. I see. You know, and I just didn't want to deal with it. So

Scott Benner 9:36
were there any junctures where you got an A one C done or anything like blood work, or you just No,

Liberty 9:43
no, the first day you want to see I got done actually. I did go on the Medtronic pump back in 2000. The 506 I want to say, and then at work, I changed jobs, and I went you union and the union insurance surprisingly, was worse. So they didn't cover an insulin pump back then. So I actually part of that reason where I didn't go to the doctor was I got pissed off at the insurance companies and the doctors and I was like, you know, I was young and stupid. So and I was like, Well, you know, they want me to dive in. So I'm just not gonna look after it, then, you know, this is ridiculous. They don't want to pay for the stuff I need. You know, I just got mad and stupid about it. I got my agency done the seventh back then, when I was on the Medtronic, Medtronic pump for the first time. The only time I ended up going back to the doctor was when I was with my husband the first year and we wanted to have kids, and I couldn't get pregnant. So I went back to the doctor, and he says, Well, you gotta get your blood sugar's under control in order to conceive. So you're just gonna have to, you know, deal with it. And by then I was older and more willing, and that's what started my journey to better health.

Scott Benner 10:57
give any other autoimmune diseases? Yes, I

Liberty 11:00
have Hashimotos give ADHD? I might. I already. I've never. I've never been diagnosed with

Scott Benner 11:08
it. I already wrote down thyroid and ADHD, I was building my own list of what I thought you might have while you were my

Liberty 11:16
daughter was actually just diagnosed with it. And I even told the therapist, I said, I might have it, but I've never been diagnosed with them. I know. It's hard for them to diagnose adults, so I just deal with it.

Scott Benner 11:29
So what's your like lineage? What's your background?

Liberty 11:33
I am mostly German, English a little bit. It's Swedish. Not not much. But it's mostly German. My my, in fact, my grandparents came over from the homeland. So I'm like, third generation.

Scott Benner 11:47
Gotcha. And so obviously, you were able to get things together. You just said you have a daughter? How many kids do you have?

Liberty 11:52
Just the one one,

Scott Benner 11:53
how old? Is she? Yep.

Liberty 11:55
She's going to be 13. In May.

Scott Benner 11:58
That's a great age. Okay, so I guess now that I feel like I understand your background a little bit. We'll move on to why you want to come on the podcast. Okay, so I'm so sorry. Like, already. I feel badly. But you reached out to me Let everyone remember that. While they're listening that while liberty is talking, she asked to be on the podcast, right liberty, but that's Oh, yeah. Well,

Liberty 12:17
you know, people should know about this aspect. You know, it's hard. This stuff happens, you know, and it's, it's just something you need to know if you got to, you need to know this stuff to live with this disease.

Scott Benner 12:30
So you're at work one day you meet this guy. You start having a relationship. How long did you date?

Liberty 12:36
We dated about a year. And he was a quick relationship. Yeah, he had. He told me he had type two diabetes. He was diagnosed with type two diabetes. He was in the army. He was a paratrooper.

Scott Benner 12:46
Okay. How old were you? When you guys met? How old were you? I was 32. How about him?

Liberty 12:54
He was 39.

Scott Benner 12:56
I had you pegged as being with an older guy. I don't know why.

Liberty 13:00
That's perfect. Oh, nice. Yeah. You started nine years older?

Scott Benner 13:03
Yeah, no, I'm just saying I'm impressed with my introduction. About you, Liberty, I'm telling you that I'm

Liberty 13:12
looking put your crystal ball away.

Scott Benner 13:15
You'll just tell me. So you guys just tell you you meet your data for you got married? Yeah, what year did you get married?

Liberty 13:24
We got married in 2008.

Scott Benner 13:27
Okay, so at the moment you meet him? He says he has type two diabetes? Did he figure out? He didn't have type two? Or did you figure it out?

Liberty 13:34
No, that was me. So he he was on Metformin. He wasn't even on insulin, when I met him. And the doctors were putting him on all these different drugs. I had no clue that he had type one at first, just because the meds seemed to be kind of working for him. You know, he was they put them on glipizide. They put them on all these different drugs to try to and then most of the doctors thought he was non compliant, which I could see why because he was kind of pigheaded. And he was non compliant for the most part, but there was one time where he was really wanting to get his stuff under control. So we went on the keto diet, I even went on it with him. We went on the keto diet, because I'd read it was really good protect us. We were on that diet for two years. And he actually got his blood sugar to kind of normal levels. And so we thought it was working. And then all of a sudden, it just stopped working. We switched endos because then I started getting suspicious. I'm like, maybe they should check you for type one. And all this time he would they would suggest that he go on insulin to help bring the sugars down, but he would refuse. So he was going all this time. I think we were about seven or eight years into our marriage when he finally got the correct diagnostics and got put on insulin but by then it was kind of late. He already had started having issues with neuropathy and his feet Eat and, or neuropathy and he got retinopathy in his eyes as well.

Scott Benner 15:06
How long before you met him? Did he think he was type two? Do you know?

Liberty 15:11
He was diagnosed with it? In the army? The TRICARE diagnosed?

Scott Benner 15:15
Is that right around the time you met, or was that prior? No.

Liberty 15:18
It was about a year or two before we met, right? So yeah, he was he was walking. He was walking around with us for a long time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 15:25
So it rough math. He had type one he had probably Lada Right. Like

Liberty 15:31
Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah, sure. Because it came on super slow. It had to have been that's why I was never, you know, suspicious of him having type one. But they did test him and he did, you know, have the antibodies. And it does run in his family. It runs in his family more than it does in mine. He's got so many people in his family have type one. It's insane.

Scott Benner 15:52
So he was lot of being treated like a type two for almost a decade. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. And by the time you start, you figure out that he's type one. He's already seeing issues with his eyes and his circulation.

Liberty 16:05
Yes. Okay. Yeah, I think he'd already had a couple toes amputated, too.

Scott Benner 16:09
Wow. So what was it like, with you, having type one watching him have problems but not thinking he was a type one. Did that have any impact on you and how you took care of yourself?

Liberty 16:22
Oh, yeah. That's why I did all that research on how to because bomb me, take taking care of myself. That's when I had my daughter that switched me around I that flipped a switch in my head and changed the whole way. I thought I took up, started taking up running. Well, actually, first of all, after I had her, it was a very easy but difficult pregnancy in the fact that I already have complications from that stint where I wasn't taking care of myself, like I have stage two. At the time I had stage two kidney disease. It's gotten to stage three. But I also had retinopathy and high blood pressure. But when I was pregnant with her, it was super high risk. In fact, when after she was born, the doctor had told me that out of all his high risk patients I was the most high risk of all his patients. And he and my Endo. They told me that I should not have any more kids because I am really lucky that it turned out the way it did because it really did a number on my kidneys. It actually pushed me into Stage Three kidney disease the pregnancy, even though I kept my ailing cf 5.5. And also it caused my retinopathy to go from my mild to moderately severe, towards the end of the pregnancy to the point where I started to go blind. And I was blind. Yeah, I was blind for three months. I had to get vitrectomy in one eye. And then a year later, I got a check to me and the other I haven't had any issues with it since and the last retinopathy appointment I had was, there was no retinopathy at all in my eyes anymore. I completely went away.

Scott Benner 18:00
So first, for three months during this is during your marriage?

Liberty 18:04
Yeah, yeah. This was during my marriage. My daughter was only 14 months old. I didn't even get to see her first steps.

Scott Benner 18:10
So your husband's kind of taking care of both of you at that point? Yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. Wow. She's Is there ever any conversation between the two of you after he realizes he's type one? Like, I can't imagine that there's not a moment where you don't feel a sense of, like dismay, that it didn't get figured out sooner?

Liberty 18:31
Yes, I felt like that all the time. Yeah, even when I thought he was type two. I was always trying to help him to help him fix it. That's why I did all that research. We went on the keto diet. And then when he was diagnosed with type one, I say, Okay, we got this. I'm like, I've got this figured out. Now, you know, I might even see consistently at six, you know, the whole time, the rest of the time we were in the marriage. I got him books, told him to read some stuff, you know, asked him if he wanted to try insulin pumps. We tried to T slim at one point, but that was a disaster.

Scott Benner 19:04
Why? Why? Why was the Why was the pump a disaster?

Liberty 19:07
I think the settings might have been wrong for him. I don't know because he kept getting these really crazy loads from it. And he would have insulin on board to the point where we had to actually call the paramedics to resuscitate him one time, and so he didn't want to be on the pump anymore because he figured that that's what was causing it.

Scott Benner 19:27
He said no thought about just changing the settings.

Liberty 19:31
No, he wasn't the type where he'd if if something wasn't working, he was done with it. Okay, very stubborn. Yeah.

Scott Benner 19:39
How about you with your sense of like, did you ever sense of loss that you that it took you as much time as it did to want to do better?

Liberty 19:48
In some ways I do. But I don't at the same time because I learned a lot of things in that time. Where I was ignoring it like it If I were ever to be in a situation where, you know, the shit would go down, you know, I know how to take care of myself and survive without having to rely on the normal paths.

Scott Benner 20:14
And would it be? Is it fair to? I'm asking because I don't know. But also, is the decision you made? Like, is it easier to accept? Because it was a decision you made versus with him? It was just a misdiagnosis? Or does that not come into play?

Liberty 20:29
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I'm not really sure what you're getting out there.

Scott Benner 20:33
What you decide, I mean, you said to yourself, I'm going to ignore my diabetes, I'm going to do the bare minimum of what I need to do. I'm not going to a doctor. I'm like not doing those things. Because I don't want to think about at least you dislike, even if it's not ends up. If it doesn't end up being a good decision. At least it was. At least it was a choice. Right? Like he didn't he didn't have a choice to be misdiagnosed, I guess, is what I'm saying. Right. But I don't know if that makes a difference in how you feel once you start using hindsight to look back at your situation.

Liberty 21:01
Yeah, I'm not sure I kind of I kind of try not to look at that as, as, you know, is anything to regret in my life, though? That's the thing.

Scott Benner 21:10
Yeah. So that's, that's your I can't

Liberty 21:12
really explain that to you. And then with him, I you know, we we would have to ask him, and we can't so.

Scott Benner 21:20
So once the retinopathy starts for him and the the circulation stuff, do things just keep going wrong from there? Or does it? Yes,

Liberty 21:30
it does. Yes, he actually got blind in his left eye. And they did the vitrectomy on him. And it didn't work. Okay. You lost he completely lost his sight. Now. You know, when the retinopathy usually you can still see you can still see the light you just can't see cuz there's all this blood in your eyes, you can't see through it. It's like a really super dirty windshield. When you when you go from blind from retinopathy, now he had the same thing. But after he had the surgery, it didn't work, I think because they had to put a gas bubble in there. And when you put a gas bubble in there, you have to walk around for two weeks with your head down, you have to sleep on your stomach. But he didn't do that he wasn't very compliant with that. And I don't know if that messed up the surgery and and made it so he was completely blind where he can't even see light. He told me he could look right up at the sun with that eye and it wouldn't do anything.

Scott Benner 22:23
Oh, gosh, I get not wanting to look down for two weeks. But what do you think about him? kept him from being able to say, alright, well, I'm just going to do this if it's going to help.

Liberty 22:32
stubbornness. I mean, I don't know. I wish I knew the answer to that, because then it might have been easier for me to fix the problem with him because I you know, I would just try everything to get him to be more compliant. And it just didn't seem it seemed like he just kind of given up like he didn't believe that he could get better. Like, maybe he was too far gone.

Scott Benner 22:56
I see. And but you felt, do you feel responsible for him? Like you needed to figure it out?

Liberty 23:02
No, I I just try to help them. And there's only so much you can do you know, you can't control people?

Scott Benner 23:10
How does the medical situation and his lack of desire to help himself like how does that impact your personal relationship?

Liberty 23:20
It actually did make it worse? Yeah, we had a better relationship at the beginning. And he had the last two years before he passed away were really, really hard because it just was a downward spiral. His personality was all messed up because his blood sugar was always high. God Scott the last day when see that he took when he was going to the doctor's like every week, he kind of deep really gave up then he had his essay once he was like 15

Scott Benner 23:56
G's. So he's not taking insulin, or was he just doing Basal insulin?

Liberty 24:01
I don't I think he might end towards the end, the last couple of months might have stopped taking his insulin.

Scott Benner 24:08
Was he trying to die? I think so. Because

Liberty 24:11
he would, he would talk about it. He was in so much pain because he had the neuropathy, right. And then he started getting these ulcers in his feet that wouldn't heal. And the doctors kept telling him and I kept telling him that the reason they're not healing is because his blood sugar is so high and the blood just can't flow. It's like syrup. You know, so that the infection just sits there. He would just get in the more and more pain and then it came out the last year, it was harder for him to get pain meds. We started using marijuana to help him with the pain, you know, because it's legal. I live in Nevada, so it's legal here. And that helped for a little while, but he didn't like how it made him feel. So he would just sit there and deal with the pain and he would literally sit in bedroom and just green. The pain was so bad. And at first I would try to do stuff to help comfort him and but nothing would help. And all I could do was just sit there and listen to it. And yeah, it got to the point where it was so bad for him. He would start talking about suicide.

Scott Benner 25:21
Did he describe the pain this feet as a burning? Like what have you put words to it?

Liberty 25:28
He drew a picture of it once, you know, we used to paint our, our on our my, my AMI pods. I used to paint the Omni pods. And he was kind of an artist. So he would paint them with me. And he did one where it was kind of fiery and orange and black. He called it my pain. He was like, This is what it feels like my pain here the way he would draw it out. And yeah, it was kind of a dark painting that he drew. Has sistent

Scott Benner 25:59
I think it was What's that? Was the pain consistent? Or did it come and go?

Liberty 26:06
It came and go. It came and went. It was it would come and go faster together towards the end. And he's out he was he was more in pain than he was not towards the end.

Scott Benner 26:18
Blind as well at that point.

Liberty 26:20
Yeah, just the one eye. Yeah, he could see through through his right eye.

Scott Benner 26:25
Could he walk?

Liberty 26:27
Just barely he would he would walk around, the doctors didn't want him to walk around, I would usually put him in the wheelchair. He would insist on walking around because I think it made him feel like less of a man to be helpless like that. Because, yeah, he wasn't able to work. He lost his job. And then he tried to get other jobs in, you know, he just couldn't find work because he was basically disabled. And we just started the process to get him put on disability. About a year before he passed

Scott Benner 26:59
the same impacts that are affecting his feet. Did they affect anything else? I'm thinking specifically like sexual function like,

Liberty 27:07
yes, he had EDI. Yeah, he had EDI. That was like the first thing that showed up actually,

Scott Benner 27:14
really? Were the other stuff. Before the

Liberty 27:17
other stuff. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And he was he wasn't comfortable going to the doctor about that. So we had had that discussion. Yeah,

Scott Benner 27:25
yeah. Is it? What's it like to? What's it like to know what's best for a person? And have them not respond to that?

Liberty 27:37
Scott? It's so frustrating. It's so frustrating.

Scott Benner 27:43
I mean, does it feel like you're? I don't I don't know. Like, what did it? Did it make you feel like you were failing him? Or did it make good feel like he was hurting himself on purpose? Or do you mean? Oh, yeah. Give me a sense of time you meet at your job, and get married a year later. And then the erectile dysfunction happens? What's the span of time between getting married and the dysfunction?

Liberty 28:11
That dysfunction happened about the time that Well, it started happening around the time we were trying to have the baby, our daughter, and after she was born, you know, I wasn't really interested in sex anyway. And then right about the time we started trying to get physically active again, it became like impossible, you know, we there was nothing that we could do to you know, make it feasible to have actual sex. That was about when she was around one or two, I think, after I'd gotten healed up from the, the AI thing.

Scott Benner 28:45
So how long is that since you met him? About four years, four years? Okay. That's what I was. Okay. So you guys were together for about four years, you go from dating and married to having a baby and him seeing his first signs of problems? Right, and those things, okay, how, and then it happened quickly. So it was the IDI then the

Liberty 29:09
then he started having issues with the feet and he got the toe amputation. So that was pretty quick after that. And then it kind of got slow, it got slow after that he would be in the hospital maybe once a year for the infections. And then there was one time where he got a really bad one where it just they had to go in and remove his metatarsal and basically reshape his whole foot because it was so messed up in there. They were going to take his leg that time and he was adamant about them not you know, do not take my legs. He's like his that happened to his father. His father was the same way. He had type two diabetes though, and he lost his legs because he went take care of himself. So I think a lot of it comes from him being a lot like his dad.

Scott Benner 29:57
Yeah, I have to say like, I don't want to I'm not I'm Not being flippant, right? But and this is gonna sound like I'm trying to be. You can totally.

Liberty 30:03
It takes a lot to get me offended, so don't worry about it

Scott Benner 30:08
liberty. What I'm trying to say is that I don't I can't imagine what I wouldn't do if my dick stop working. And I'm trying to figure out why that didn't snap him into taking better care of us diabetes.

Liberty 30:18
Yeah, I have no idea because it bothered him. Yeah, well, I bet it Did it bother. It bothered him a lot. Yeah. And he got to the point where he started thinking about going to the urologist, but it was kind of too late. And I kept telling him, like, he's like, Well, I'm gonna go to the dick doctor. That's what he called it. The addict doctor, I know the tick doctor now. And I'm like, well, don't you think you should get your diabetes under control first, because I don't think the addict doctor is going to be able to do anything for you. Because you're all messed up from the diabetes. I mean, that's a big cause of Edie. Yeah. And he could you wouldn't hear out now just go to the doctor and get this fix. That's all I care about is the tick Doctor thing. I don't know what his thinking was. It was completely illogical. How

Scott Benner 31:00
high do you think his blood sugar's were then?

Liberty 31:03
Probably run. And he was probably walking around with 434 hundreds, or

Scott Benner 31:07
maybe do you think that was it? Like he just couldn't think straight?

Liberty 31:11
Yes, yes. Because the Yeah, his personality changed. He was very negative. He started to become very negative. very grumpy at my daughter, and I had to walk around glass around him. I mean, we were actually talking about separating, because he passed away. Yeah, cuz I couldn't handle it anymore. I got you know, I can put up with a lot of Scott. But it's like it got to the point where it's affecting my daughter. Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:38
no, I understand. So is he been gone for? Has he been gone for a long time now? How long?

Liberty 31:44
It's been since July fifth last year? Oh, not long? No, no, it's been six months ish. All right, hold

Scott Benner 31:53
on. I'm ready. I'm just pulling myself together. It's a lot. It's a lot going through. Was it? Was it hard to see him pass? Or was there any relief for you? I don't want to ask you that. But did it?

Liberty 32:07
Oh, no, you can ask all that. Because I actually have been asked that before, because I have friends who saw me go through it. We me and my daughter and I had actually left him here about two months before he passed at the house. And I moved in with, you know, it was kind of a temporary separation thing, just to keep my daughter away from him for a little while while he got it together. So I moved in with her to a friend's house. She saw the whole thing, all this stuff going down. And she asked me the same question after he passed. But yes, I did feel some relief. I did. And in some ways, my life has been a lot better. The last six months, my daughter's has as well. There's a lot less stress. But I get times where I really missed the old him. You know, especially when Facebook memories come out up. Just saw a picture come up from about five years ago, we went shooting in the desert together. And man that just brought back a whole bunch of memories because he loved to go shoot. And yeah, he was in the military. He taught me how to shoot. We would always go out to the desert, you know, not even he hated going to the shooting range, say like to go out in the desert, you can do that legally here in the state. Yeah, just stuff like that just pops up randomly. When I was going through his stuff, I think about the old times, and I miss him. But the last couple of years, where it was really hard. I am relieved. It's over because, you know, because I I tried so hard. I tried so hard to get him to see the light. And every once in a while it would click it was like you would come back from that Jekyll and Hyde state Mr. Hyde would come back and talk with Dr. Jekyll would be gone and he'd be that guy I knew again. And he would actually be listening to me and he'd be like, he's like, I'm so sorry, the way I've been and I just really want to change this. And tomorrow we're gonna, you know, right now we're gonna start this and then the next day Dr. CHIEKO will be back and it would start all over again. It was a cycle.

Scott Benner 34:22
So it mimics mental illness. The high blood sugars.

Liberty 34:27
Yes. Yes, it does.

Scott Benner 34:31
Okay, got it. It's a shame guys. I'm so just disappointed that this isn't a lighthearted story so I can make the title Dick doctor but that's never going to work. So

Liberty 34:41
well, you know, it is kind of funny.

Scott Benner 34:44
I mean, I'm really focused on this part of it, which is, is that you can get your blood sugar into a place where you're just not yourself. And you know that most people who are already managing type one and are around somebody else, you know, you think about your kid it like has type one and they get, you know, their mood changes with a high blood sugar. But you're there with them to be like, Alright, we're gonna get your blood sugar back down, but by then they turn back into themselves again. But when you're an adult, and that happens, and you don't have any agency over him, you can't force him to take insulin like, right, you can't do those things. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because if he was mentally unstable, like if you could have a doctor say that he can't make his own decisions, then you could help him. But no one would do that around a blood sugar, but look at the same exact things happening. You couldn't get

Liberty 35:37
away, I could get anyone to sign off on that. Because he was not he would be normal to other people. For the most part. No, I was really the only one who saw it. You know, even when I was talking to his sister, after he passed, she's like, because she knew that we were going through, he was being kind of abusive to us. And she asked me if I missed him. I'm like, No, I don't I couldn't lie to her. And she kind of looked like she got offended by that. And I'm like, Well, you don't need to get offended by that. Because I do miss him the way he was. But the last two years, it wasn't him. It was had lost him a couple of years ago. I mean, I already mourn that loss, I think.

Scott Benner 36:18
Yeah. Now it all makes sense. I appreciate you. I really appreciate you share. This also means difficult because you Was this your first marriage? Yes, yeah. So you waited a while to meet a person. And then for I mean, for this to be how it unfolds? is it's got to be heartbreaking in itself. I would imagine if you didn't have your daughter, it would feel almost like a waste of time. But I'm assuming it doesn't because of her. How hard was it? Well, you don't have anything to hold it up against because you have this one child, but I was gonna ask like, how is what's it like growing up with a parent in such a in a medical situation like that. So consistently, like it has to have clouded who she is, too, I would imagine.

Liberty 37:04
She's been in therapy for the past, since he started going, his personality changed, I started putting her in therapy. And that's another reason why we had separated ourselves from the house because the therapist had recommended it, because she didn't think it was a healthy situation for her to be in because at that time, he had been getting kind of verbally abusive, not nothing physical or anything. But some of the stuff he would tell her that he wanted to kill her kill himself in front of her. He would say horrible things about her dog, and it was getting so bad. So that therapist was like, this isn't a toxic situation for her. You need to get her

Scott Benner 37:41
out of just lashing out at that point. And yeah, yeah,

Liberty 37:45
he was lashing out at every little thing. I mean, she wouldn't even be doing anything and it would piss them off. So

Scott Benner 37:51
Wow. Nobody in this extended family tried to help his the

Liberty 37:58
way he hid his family lives. You know, we're over on the West Coast. This family lives in the Midwest. Okay, so they weren't around. They didn't. The only time he got they got a taste of him like this was he had went over to visit for a couple of weeks. And they hadn't mentioned to me about how he had changed a little bit and how they noticed that he was a lot more angrier, less willing to, you know, get along with people while he was up there, in fact. Yeah, I think they might have been a little glad that he left. In a way, you know, I don't know. I'm not for sure. Nobody told me that but just kind of got a feeling.

Scott Benner 38:40
We'll see active duty military like the DC war.

Liberty 38:44
Yes. He was in South America fighting the drug lords.

Scott Benner 38:50
And yeah, he any of that impact? I mean, not that I couldn't but

Liberty 38:54
Oh, yeah. Oh, it did. Yeah. He was telling me a couple of stories. They were getting ready to defend the place or I'm not sure exactly what but he laid down to get ready to you know, put his gun and hide behind whatever they do in the military, I don't know. And one of his supervisors said, Hey, man, I wouldn't I wouldn't lay there if I were you. I'd pick a different spot. So he picked a different spot and when the shooting started, it went right to that spot that he was in the guy saved his life. You said that really touched him and he was also in security in the casinos down here. And he was first on the scene for there was a little bombing they had at one of the casinos he was at where there was a love triangle. A guy had made a little bomb with nuts and bolts and screws in it and a cup and put it on a car and it blew up. When the guy you know that he was detonated when the target grabbed the cup and blew his hands off and that's it. My husband was like, one of the first on the scene for that. So he had to seek jet like that all the time, his father was pretty strict as well, to the point where I finally convinced to go to psychiatrist, a few months before he died, I had been on him for months and months and months to go to the psychiatrist because I thought he needed some help when they finally got him to go, and they diagnosed him with PTSD, mostly from his childhood, though, and partly from the military. Okay. So that was, that was also a factor that contributed to his personality disorder. Right. And maybe I don't think the diabetes was helping it, though.

Scott Benner 40:43
Yeah, I'm also trying to imagine like a layering of problems, you know, like one thing, right, and then another, and then another, then you see what you see at war, and you see what you see at home, and then you get diabetes, and then it's misdiagnosed for so long. And it's just, it's overwhelmed. Yeah,

Liberty 41:00
he got he pretty much got the short end of the stick, I think. Yeah,

Scott Benner 41:04
yeah. I mean, it's almost like if you, you know, if you kept putting a if you put a weighted blanket on somebody, you could expect them to walk around with it. But when they have 10 on, you can see where they'd be like, Look, my legs are tired. I gotta, I can't I can't hold this up anymore. And then if you can't figure out a way from underneath of it, I don't know how you stand back up again.

Liberty 41:23
Yeah. And he used to say that a lot, too, because he did have a couple of strokes there towards the end as well, he lost the use of his left arm. I mean, it was a ton of things. And it was exactly like that. Blankets and blankets getting put on top of them to the point where he'd look at me and he says, I don't know how much longer I can go on, like this. Just bad that keeps happening to me, and I don't know what to do anymore.

Scott Benner 41:48
What made you want to come tell the story?

Liberty 41:52
I don't know. I just want to talk about it. I think that's a good part of me healing. I don't think there's a lot of people out there that are willing to talk about it like I am. Well, it's something that I don't know, I think it's just something that people need to hear.

Scott Benner 42:10
Yeah, I'm happy to hear your story. Because I what I imagine is that no one thinks that could happen to them. And I just I can't guarantee I could have went and found your husband at a point in his life. If I would have told him this story. That's it, this is going to be you that he would have said that there's no way that could happen to me. Right, you know, like, nobody thinks this can happen. And and it is a slow, like those blankets. They don't all like somebody doesn't yell, I'm gonna throw 10 weight weighted problems on you right now. Like the one goes on. You're like, oh, this is too bad. I can handle this. And the next one comes in, you're like, I can handle this. And then one day, all of a sudden, you're like, I'm doing great, and then the one hits you, that just knocks you over. And now you can stand back up again. In that's how it's a slow. It's a slow death. You know what I mean? And it's so slow that you don't know it's that. And that's, that's what I want people to hear. Like, that's my reasoning for wanting you on the show.

Liberty 43:07
Is that Well, it's funny. It's funny you say that because when he died? I wasn't expecting that at all. I figured it out a few even with all the crap. You know, he had wrong with him. I figured he still had a few years. I mean, I knew he wasn't gonna live a long time. Yeah. He went to the hospital. He was in DKA. I go to the emergency room. They say oh, he's, yeah, he wasn't DKA. But we got him stabilized. Now his organs are fine. That's that's the first thing I asked him like was are his organs failing? They're like, No, no, he's fine. We got him down. We just need to observe him for a while, you know. And then he wakes up. And he was weird. I think there was something wrong with his brain because he couldn't even talk to me anymore.

Scott Benner 43:49
Stroke, maybe?

Liberty 43:50
Yeah, they, they had him in the ICU. And I never really got to talk to him before he died. It was kind of sad that they had called me and told him that he would need to go to a rehab center because they thought he might have had another stroke. Then it was literally like an hour later, the doctor called and said that he had had a heart attack. And they couldn't revive him. And when she said that, I couldn't believe it. Because I'm like, Oh, they just called me and said that we were going to put him in the rehab center and it was all fine, you know, and what the hell. And it took me a while for it to sink in until I finally went back to the hospital and, you know, went there to see him lying there. So

Scott Benner 44:34
wow, Jesus. I just want people to understand that it's important that you have to write that you have to you have to you get diabetes, you don't get to ignore it. This is the end of what happens when you ignore diabetes. Yes, yeah. And there's no there's none of there's no magic person who ignores her diabetes and doesn't end up like this. We don't talk about it. It's not, you know, no, they're they're not P there's not a Facebook group full of people talking about I ignore diabetes, and I'm fine. Like, that doesn't happen those people are live isolated lives as they get sicker and sicker. And it's just, there is even some of me that says that, like, you know, I even understand that a podcast is you have. I mean, I don't love the word and I, but there's some privilege to just listening to a podcast, right? You you own a phone, you have internet access, you have time to listen, you can pay for headphones, there are plenty of people who don't even have those things. And, and so sometimes the stories you hear are more framed from people who have this privilege already, right. So I can only have the people on who want to come on, then we kind of lose this part, this last part of of type one, and type two diabetes, the people who don't have the right support, and don't have the right knowledge, or get misdiagnosed, or have other issues going along with it, and they just get sucked down this, this drain of despair. And that happens to more people than you think. That's sort of my that's what I take from being involved for this long and watching people for this long that this stuff happens. Like, this is not an uncommon story you're telling. It's just this, it's just uncommon for it to be told. Right? Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Liberty 46:29
Well, you know, what, if you're, if you're in that spot, you're ignoring your diabetes. And this, you know, like, a story kind of wakes you up, you know, it's not too late. I mean, I did the same thing. I ignored my diabetes for a long time. And now I turned it around. And yeah, I still got complications. But I have them under control, and they're stable, I feel a lot better. And, you know, my life is a lot better. I know, I'm not cloudy anymore. And it's just, it's better. When you take control of your life, it's just better to just turn it around. And it's possible, it's never too late. As long as you're alive. It's never too late to change your body for the better. It's never to

Scott Benner 47:17
know. And there have been people on who have had fairly significant complications and right of their blood sugars, and seeing some of those complications, like stop, or or recede sometimes. And I'm not saying you can just match, I'm not saying you can let it go. And then just bring it back again, because there are some things you're gonna do damage to that. It's just it's done now. But it people need to understand, like, what you're describing for yourself is is years of, I mean, would you call it neglect? Oh, yeah. Right.

Liberty 47:46
Yeah, it was, it was literally seven years, I counted it out one time, because at the time, I didn't, I wasn't really ticking it off. But I look back and I remember, I remember when I stopped and when I started going to the doctor again, and it was about seven years.

Scott Benner 48:01
So it's not lost on you then that if you didn't make a change, you'd be on the same path as your husband was.

Liberty 48:08
Oh, yeah, I'd probably be dead right now. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 48:13
All right. Well, this is upbeat liberty, thank you. Bringing bringing the axe me bringing the fun

Well, I mean, it's it just, I don't know, it's, it's lovely for you to to spend the time and to describe it. Because, again, I just I'm just gonna reiterate like, there's everyone listening. Like you make enough wrong decisions. This is how it goes. So and I don't want people to run away like crazy like now. Yeah, you know, I don't want you to hear this and be like, flipping out tonight because your your kids blood sugar goes to 140 after dinner or something like that like that. These are not the same thing you were describing. A significant? Yeah,

Liberty 49:01
it takes a long

Scott Benner 49:03
time. Yeah, yeah, you're

Liberty 49:06
you really just have to not care. You have to not care. Yeah. Yeah, he literally when it got bad, he didn't care anymore, right.

Scott Benner 49:15
It's almost like at this point, you're trying to make a bad outcome come like yeah, you're working you're actually working harder to be sick than it might take to. To do better for

Liberty 49:26
yourself. Right? Yeah, that's exactly kind of how I felt like he was he was doing towards the end. Yeah, like he was just trying to make it go away for good.

Scott Benner 49:34
Yeah, yeah. No, I imagine. Well, jeez, this is going to be a shorter episode because there's nowhere for us to go from here. It is really exciting that you that you got got yourself together. And you had all that success and you had a baby and and she sounds like she's doing well and that's all really exciting. So do you worry about diabetes for her?

Liberty 49:56
Yes, I do. I actually have her and had her and trial net when And they used to do it every year. She never got the antibodies triggered. But she does have Hashimotos. Okay, she was, yeah, she was diagnosed with that. So she does. She has the autoimmunity thing going on.

Scott Benner 50:12
She has Hashimotos but she didn't have any indicators through trial. And they never saw.

Liberty 50:18
No, no, they never sign anything. No,

Unknown Speaker 50:21
that's exciting.

Liberty 50:23
Yeah, yeah, hopefully. I mean, she's the, we've had that discussion. I told her that it's, it's, you know, it runs rampant in our family and not to be surprised that she's probably not going to get it. But don't be surprised if she does, and not to be scared of getting it. Because, you know, as I as an example, you know, I'm an example to her and, and I say, I live with it just fine. You know, I live a good life, you know, I'm happy, you know, just, it doesn't. It doesn't need to be a death sentence. And, you know, lots of people live with it. And you don't need to feel different. I mean, she's, she seems cool with that I don't think she'd be afraid of of it. You know, if she ever got diagnosed, so

Scott Benner 51:06
I'd like to applaud you for getting her to therapy, too. Because it's that I mean, what you're describing just couldn't be, it couldn't be easy to grow up with. That's all you know, and for you to what do you do for yourself? Now?

Liberty 51:19
I'm not much of a therapy type of person. I do meditate. I do yoga, I run. Exercise is my therapy. So

Scott Benner 51:28
Gotcha. You were saying earlier, I just want to make sure I understood like, your husband was taking pain medication. That didn't work. Eventually. He tried weed that worked for a while, but then

Liberty 51:38
oh, no, no, the pain medication worked. He wasn't able to get it anymore. Because Because the doctor can prescribe him he had to go see a pain medication doctor. Oh, almost. It was almost Yeah. Because the last change you remember the last change?

Scott Benner 51:53
Yeah. Oh, it's this? Oh, yeah.

Liberty 51:55
This is what happens when the last change about the pain meds. Okay. So yeah, they're keeping the people off of it that have problems with it, but the people that actually need it, they got to jump through hoops.

Scott Benner 52:06
Okay, so this is about the opioid. Yeah, yes. So your husband was a person who really desperately needed it. He

Liberty 52:13
needed it. Yeah. And he couldn't get it. So he was like, Screw it. I'm not gonna you know, I got I'm already seeing enough doctors, he says, and it takes me three months to get an appointment with this pain doctor. And it's like, I gotta sit here three months with pain. I might as well just sit here with pain. You know, he would say stuff like that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 52:31
And in the we'd cut it down, but not for long. And he didn't like being

Liberty 52:35
harmed. Yeah, well, he. Yeah. He said the weed cut it down. But he didn't like being caught. Yeah, you didn't like the feeling it gave me that it gave him to be high. Gotcha. But it did. It did cut his pain a lot.

Scott Benner 52:47
That's terrible. All right, I have to tell you, I have to record again in a little bit. And so I'm going to use this as an excuse to say goodbye to you. But in totality, I just don't I don't know how to swing this around and take it in a different direction I am. I'm at the end of my skills right now. But, but I do really appreciate like that you took the time to talk about it. You I'm gonna, I'm gonna make this an afterdark episode. But there's part of me that doesn't want to but there's part of me that. I don't like that. Some of them are after dark episodes. I think they're just, I think they're just people's lives. And I don't think they should be distinguished as like that. But I need to put them somewhere where people who are listening, know that we're going to be talking about some really heavy stuff. So

Liberty 53:32
of course, well, you know, if, you know, I assume that your after dark episodes mean that pretty much adults only and if an adult wants to share it with their kids, you know, it's always the adults choice to sit there listen to with their kids, and to discuss, you know, any questions that come up, that's the best way to bring this up to your kids, is just to be there with them and let them know that they've there's a dark side to this, but not to be scared because, you know, I'm here with you to answer any questions how we can prevent this such

Scott Benner 54:04
and such. I also think there's a component. I was talking about this in a recent episode with Erica in a mental health episode. But there's a component of who you are, like, there are some people who you could go to and say, you know, listen to this lady story about her husband. And they'll be like, well, I'm going to take care of myself. And there are plenty of people who would hear and go oh, I guess then there's no no reason to take care of myself. Because this is just you don't even like people's minds jump into certain directions. Like everybody's so black and white all the time. Like, I don't know why. Sometimes we can't hold two, two thoughts in our head at the same time that compete with each other, but realize they're both to be given consideration. You

Liberty 54:44
don't I mean, yeah, it takes a rare person to be able to do that. Yeah,

Scott Benner 54:47
I don't know why that is. Okay, Liberty. I really appreciate this. I appreciate you sitting in the closet, and so it'll stay quiet. And the whole thing and I have to admit

Liberty 54:57
anyway, that's why you can call the episode

Unknown Speaker 54:59
First

Liberty 55:03
I'm really looking forward to figuring it to hearing what you figured out though.

Scott Benner 55:07
The title.

Liberty 55:11
Title. That's like the most exciting part of your episodes is finding out what the title is going to be. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 55:16
don't know. Like there's something around give give me liberty or give me death but it's all just a so morose. I don't know what to do. So I think it's just the I think it's just an explanation of complications, you know, and just, there's no joking to be made around this. Not that I think that of the title. I don't I don't want to even look like I'm joking. Like, you know, anything, because it's such a serious thing. And I mean, in this poor man's life was How old was he when he passed?

Liberty 55:43
He was 54. Yeah, that's just yeah, he had just turned 54. But you know what, he would have appreciated a dark, humorous title. If you want to know the truth of dark humor. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we wouldn't be listening to you in the car. We would be he would listen to you in the car. And he'd be I like this guy. He's got a dark humor. I like him. You know, he doesn't care. Yeah, he used to love listening to you. So

Scott Benner 56:10
well, maybe out of respect to him. We'll call it shooting cactus. That was that. What you're shooting out when you're out in the desert?

Liberty 56:17
No. targets. There's no cactuses. Here. You're thinking Arizona.

Scott Benner 56:23
They don't give you a cactus in Nevada.

Liberty 56:26
Oh, no, there's no cat and it's Nevada. There's no cap

Scott Benner 56:30
Nevada. Nevada. Nevada.

Liberty 56:34
Although it's not Nevada. It's only Nevada. If you're from Becky's? Well, that's where I'm from here. If you're gonna Yeah, well, if you come out here, you got to stay at Nevada. I gotta say Nevada, just I'm just letting you know, people are gonna know where you're from. Yeah, they're gonna know you're a tourist.

Scott Benner 56:49
Don't worry. I think most places hear my voice and think that guy's not from around here.

Liberty 56:55
Okay, well, we should throw them off a little bit.

Scott Benner 56:58
Well, I'm going to, I'm going to give it some give it some thought. We're going to find something that is appropriately dark and amusing for your for your, your, your husband his past. And and give him a little something you said isn't a month in here. But did you want for me to bleep it out? Or is that okay?

Liberty 57:14
Yeah, go ahead. And bleep it. He was kind of a private person. So Okay. All right. Well, I certainly All right, yeah. Oh, you know, what, if you want to use a plant, the state flowers the sagebrush.

Scott Benner 57:25
You don't shoot sagebrush do?

Liberty 57:28
Probably do because it's everywhere. It's everywhere. Doesn't matter what you're shooting. I'm shooting at the target. I'm still shooting at sagebrush because it's everywhere.

Scott Benner 57:36
Gotcha. All right. Well, thank you. Hold on one second for me. All right.

Huge thanks to liberty for coming on the show and sharing that story. I also want to thank that contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Get yourself a super accurate meter. If you've ever thought about being a guest and the Juicebox Podcast, boy, are you in luck, I just opened up the calendar. It's gonna be open for a little bit, email me, and we'll see if you'd be a good fit. I'll leave you with two thoughts. If you've never tried the diabetes Pro Tip series. It's been remastered and the audio was amazing diabetes pro tip.com juicebox podcast.com. Or go back in your audio app to Episode 1000. Were all begins. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The afterdark series from the Juicebox Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From smoking weed to drinking with type one perspectives from both male and females about having sex with diabetes. We talk about depression, self harm, eating disorders, mental illness, heroin addiction, use of psychedelics, living with bipolar, being a child of divorce, and honestly so much more. I can't list them all. But you can by going to juicebox podcast.com. Going to the top and clicking on after dark. There you'll see episode 807 called one thing after another episode 825 California sober. Other after dark episodes include unsupported survivor's guilt, space musician, dead frogs, these titles will make you say what is this about? And then when you listen, you'll think that was crazy. juicebox podcast.com Find the after dark series. It's fantastic.