Scott Benner 4/20/23 Scott Benner 4/20/23

#893 Stupid Eggs

Charissa has six children and one of the has type 1 diabetes. There is also a lot of auto immune issues in her family.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 893 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's podcast we're going to be speaking with Chris and I Chris who has 12345. Wait, I ran out of fingers on that hand, six children, and one of them has type one diabetes, but there's a lot of autoimmune going on in her family. It's an interesting conversation, to say the least. While you're listening to me have that conversation with Karissa. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, or are the parent of a child with type one, like Carissa says, you can go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and complete their survey. Doing that helps move type one research forward. It takes you fewer than 10 minutes. It helps you It helps me it helps the world T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. amount of stuff to say. Still loud music. Geez Hey, you can get 10% off your first. That's gonna be on tomorrow's episode. Now the music's over this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by cozy Earth. Get great sheets, towels and clothing at cozy earth.com. And when you do that, use my offer code juicebox at checkout to save 35% off your entire order. Actually, you have to check out the webpage because I just said like towels and sheets. And that's not fair. There's way more there. I'm wearing the sweatshirt today from cozy Earth and it's banging. So soft, comfy, comfy, comfy, comfy 35% Off with juice box head over now. today's podcast is also sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Now, we all have a blood glucose meter. Right? If you're listening to this podcast, there's a meter in your house somewhere the question is, is it a great one? Is it accurate? Is it reliable? Does it offer Second Chance testing? Because if yours doesn't contour next gen does contour next one.com forward slash juicebox

Charissa 2:38
I am Karissa. I am a mom to six. and my Number five is my type one. Kiddo. So I think that's my introduction.

Scott Benner 2:52
You have the six children the classic way or did you find them places or?

Charissa 2:57
No, they're all mine. Yeah. I popped them out the good old fashioned way.

Scott Benner 3:04
How old? Are you? Karissa?

Charissa 3:06
I am 38.

Scott Benner 3:08
Holy Hannah, are you building an army? Or are you doing this for Jesus? What is the reason you have 16? Yeah,

Charissa 3:14
a little army. I thought maybe a football team or something? Because I only have one girl and the rest are all boys. So don't stop

Scott Benner 3:21
now.

Charissa 3:23
Oh, no, I'm good. Once the youngest is out of diapers, so there's no turning back?

Scott Benner 3:28
Was there ever a thought of a seven?

Charissa 3:31
I'm probably more for me than my husband.

Scott Benner 3:36
Yeah, cuz, right. Well, what made you want to have such a big family?

Charissa 3:41
Um, I just always did. I mean, when I was little, and I played dolls, I had all of them were all of my children all at once. Like, I didn't just like pick one. So I wanted them all. And that was, you know, when when I met my husband, Andy, I was like, Listen, I'm gonna want a lot. And if that's scary for you, you're gonna have to leave. And I think he did debate it. But he stayed. So

Scott Benner 4:08
I asked. This is a serious question. That's gonna sound like a joke. Do you hoard other things?

Charissa 4:16
Um, no, I like to throw away a lot of things.

Scott Benner 4:20
That's interesting. Did you come from a large family?

Charissa 4:23
No, I I'm the middle. I have an older sister and a younger sister. And that's it.

Scott Benner 4:28
That's fascinating. Was there any point during the making of the baby's like around the third one where you thought and is this good? Or, like were you just completing the set at that point? Or were you really like did you never doubt it as you're going along?

Charissa 4:45
And no, I think I think had my body not said hey, the first one was that 10 years from the from the last one. And the last one definitely felt a little bit harder. And I think like, if that would have been a thing, I think I'd had more. But I will say my body felt it 10 years later, a lot more. And I also wanted to have like, even numbers, you know, like an amusement park, somebody had a partner, that sort of thing.

Scott Benner 5:18
I'm doing so late math in my head right now. 10 years has 120 months. That's simple math, right? But nine months to make a baby times six babies is 54 months. So 120 minus 54. So the last 10 years you've only not been pregnant for 66 months. Yeah, good times. I'm gonna divide that by 12. Real quick, just for fun. So you've been pregnant four and a half of the last 10 years. Holy hell. Okay. All right. I don't know we shouldn't like nominate you for something I guess.

Charissa 5:58
I think there's a lot more other you know, crazy people, if you will, than me. So I but it is kind of fun when you walk down the street and people like what? They all you're like, look at them. They all look yes,

Scott Benner 6:13
this lady stole children. She's rounded them up. And she's taking them somewhere someone stopper and they're so there's a 10 year old and what's how young is the youngest?

Charissa 6:23
So actually, my oldest is she's about to turn 15 And my youngest is about to turn five. So there's just 10 years between.

Scott Benner 6:32
So there's Yeah, okay, well, just for fun. 15 What's the next 150?

Charissa 6:39
Well, yeah, 15 1311? Nine, seven, and then almost five.

Scott Benner 6:48
Okay, and which one has type one the seven year old?

Charissa 6:52
The seven year old? Yes. Okay.

Scott Benner 6:55
All right. Well, you're gonna have enough energy to record this. Yeah. Okay.

Charissa 7:00
Man, I mean, they keep me going. So sure. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:02
Is this the first year your youngest is going to school?

Charissa 7:06
No, he, he did go, we did go back to school. Right, you know, right at the beginning. So he was diagnosed may 24 2020. And then we had the option where we live to have to either go back or stay virtual when we went back to school. And that was a big debate for us. But we were like, well, hopefully a lot of people aren't. And then this is a good chance for the school nurse and the school to learn him when there's less kids. So even though that felt like really terrifying at the time, because he was, you know, only diagnosed for a few months, and he was still kind of honeymooning, and he was NDI and all the things. I was like, you know, we were thinking it's probably it's probably our best bet to put them in now. And then even though we couldn't go into the building, like make all the phone calls, because hopefully they'll have more time to hear us when we call the nurse's office

Scott Benner 8:06
that workout.

Charissa 8:08
Um, yeah, I think so. I think it really did. He was the only type one that year in kindergarten and then partway through first grade, there was a second one that joined and then ending last year, there was a third one that came to the school. And so then this year, there's still three there this year.

Scott Benner 8:33
So that was that was actually very interesting. You misunderstood my question, but I let you finish Oh, you were telling me it was I just wanted to know if the five year old if this is their first year at school?

Charissa 8:44
Oh, my five year old he's not five yet so he does not start

Scott Benner 8:48
school. Okay, so you see his home so you sent five kids off to school when school started like I

Charissa 8:52
said five off? Yes. And this is our first year with three schools because then we have high school middle school and elementary Do you

Scott Benner 8:59
own your own bus company? Or does this school coming?

Charissa 9:03
Do you have a mega van? So sorta and we did name it adventure bus so sorta, but not really.

Scott Benner 9:09
So before I asked you about before I ask you about the diabetes stuff I want to understand you please don't like I'm not looking for your tax return here. But would you characterize the money that your household makes as amazing average or below average?

Charissa 9:26
Probably average okay.

Scott Benner 9:27
How do you manage this

Charissa 9:31
so I stay at home and we my two oldest boys were the same size so that's really convenient. And then the next one is kind of all where the so like in a lot of ways. We so we live near the Austin Texas area so it's not the cheapest however, we moved from Columbus, Ohio and I'm The job change did come with a raise there. And it has allowed me to be able to continue to stay home. And in my previous life, I used to do hair. So it's not like it would have been an amazing bump. Depending on what area of talent you worked in, and how many hours I wanted to put in, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so my priority was still going to be my family, because, like, I kind of told you already, like, my dream was my family. So the the job was to get me to to that, and then I'll actually I'll probably change careers when I go back to work next year.

Scott Benner 10:43
Just because are you looking forward to going back?

Charissa 10:47
Um, yes, I think so. I, I do enjoy having something that's just for me, I do a lot of volunteering in a lot of different places. So it'll be nice to have all those hours make money. Yeah. What do you know, what did that downlink?

Scott Benner 11:04
What do you think you spend on food in a month,

Charissa 11:07
um, in a month

probably around a little over 1000, maybe 1200.

Scott Benner 11:19
You just feed the kids like it's the army, they get powdered eggs at every meal and a piece of toast.

Charissa 11:24
We do by a cup, we do by about 10 dozen eggs a week. We don't drink a lot of milk. So that's not super crazy, we eat a lot of fresh produce, and like meat. And that's probably the biggest expenses on those things, right. And then really, some of those like, convenient low carb snacks that we want to have like in the bag just to take those are expensive. So we don't like the whole family doesn't eat those. Those are usually just for Titus is my type one. So the rest of them will kind of eat something a little bit different. That's not always true. But you know, for the most part, we just really like normal real food, as opposed to just buying the convenient things,

Scott Benner 12:17
do you find yourself coaching them towards trades, when they talk about what they're going to do when they get older?

Charissa 12:23
Like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt

Scott Benner 12:27
you, I'm just I'm looking at the sheer number of people, right. And then I'm doing the math on what college costs. And there's sort of, there's like an upper tier level of what college costs, which at this point, is, I'm gonna say between 65 and $75,000 a year, right. And then there's sort of that like, 30 $40,000 range. And then there's, you know, there's lower, obviously, there's some schools that are six grand a year, there's community college, pay a few $1,000 for, but even if you went, even if you went like, I don't know, mid level, like if all of your kids were good students, they're like, I want to go to school and I want to be an accountant or this or that you're looking at like, I don't know, it's like a million dollars to send them all to college. You just so that so my point is when they're like, I want to be an accountant, do you say, you know, wouldn't you prefer being a roofer? Like, that's what I would do. I would just be like, you know, what's underserved in the world plumbing? Would you like to be a plumber? I would

Charissa 13:29
trade school.

Scott Benner 13:30
Yeah. Yeah. I pray to Chris, you just you disappeared for a second. So just start over there. But I'm wondering if you guys talk about college for the kids like you and your husband, you're sitting exhausted in the pile at the end of the day? Like, what do you say to each other about that?

Charissa 13:49
Um, I think that, for the most part, we try not to, to worry about it. Because, you know, at some point, I'll go back to work and if we continue to live like we do now, when I do work, everything I make can go for the colleges and the cars and all the things that we're gearing up for, like 10 seconds, really? Um, but no, I don't really I don't think we do because right now, my doctor, my doctor, my daughter is has been talking about being a doctor and she's the first one so cool, cool, we'll be paying for her while everybody else is also going through forever.

Scott Benner 14:28
You should abandon them that would be the best way to stay take them.

Charissa 14:32
Yeah. I mean, I don't I mean, whatever your I think I'm stumbling over this one a little bit because I think because of my personal like, family stuff like my growing up with my sister as a teacher and then became a principal and she's amazing. Super, like I've done all those things. And then we've also like, and then I did cosmetology school. And really, that's kind of what I did. And then but I also still have like, some regrets of not just going and doing like the nursing side of things that I considered previously. And doing it before I got married and have my kids and, you know, did all of those things. That like, I think because of those types of things, it makes me want to, like encourage them to go be and do whatever it is biggest dream their biggest dreams early. Yeah, and then change their mind later. If that makes sense.

Scott Benner 15:42
Man, I suggest trying to groom the 13 year old into being a bank robber, I think that's get him working.

Charissa 15:49
Ironically, that might be the one who would do it

Scott Benner 15:59
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Charissa 20:23
Yeah, or the nine year old is the topic.

Scott Benner 20:29
How long ago? How long ago was Titus diagnosed?

Charissa 20:34
So it's about two and a half years.

Scott Benner 20:38
Okay, two and a half years ago. So he was, uh, he was pretty young. He was not quite five.

Charissa 20:44
I mean, he was just five I should say, Okay,

Scott Benner 20:48
right. Around five years old. That's fine. Yeah, I just, you know, I don't know exactly when they were born. I'm just guessing from numbers. So yeah, did it how did it present?

Charissa 20:58
Um, so he went the long version, the short

Scott Benner 21:02
version, I want the version you think people would be interested in?

Charissa 21:06
So I honest, I knew nothing about type one diabetes. I have heard of it. But I didn't. I didn't know enough to like watch for symptoms. So they were all there. However, it was right when COVID was happening. It was right. In May. It was when everybody was home for spring break. It was right. In Texas. It was like, you know time to put on all the shorts and change all the clothes and so, you know, even though he was starting to lose weight I and I saw that. He's kind of my beefy guy like we call him the tank. Because he's not chubby. But he is very solid. He has more muscle mass and just general math to him. Then my other kiddos all have made me Yeah, I mean, like he's just always been heavier, bigger guy, even though he's not like, round and like full cheeky, you know what I mean? Like, he's not like chubby, so you didn't like think of like, oh, look, he's finally you know, he's finally like, you know, cutting energy wise catching up to the foodies eaten or something like that. It wasn't like that. However, because his brothers are a little bit more lean. They, when they were outside playing, or we were playing in like the water in the pool in the sandbox, in our backyard, then there. I was, like, I did say, like, man, he's, he must have just had a big growth spurt. He's really kind of shot up. And he's been down more, but he still was not looking like scrawny or anything like that. He just looked thinner, closer to his brother's body type. Just a lot different for him. And then because he was also not wearing pants anymore, he was wearing shorts, like it's not like his clothes seemed a lot different. And then, so we had also been helping our neighbor across the street wanted like a bunch of rocks taken out of like a flower bed. And so we had been over my older boys had been going over and like pulling it all up. And there was a lot. And so we over like a couple days, I would go like check on them. And so we had gone over there and it was kind of hot. And I went over and and I guess I should back up and say like, while we were playing and I noticed like he's kind of like lost a little bit weight. We hadn't really left the house because of COVID. So like there was no stopping to like say, why are you going to the bathroom so many times? Because like, there was he could go whenever he wanted

Scott Benner 23:50
freedom in the house. He didn't notice it happen. Yeah,

Charissa 23:52
there's a, there's a busyness in the house that like people are in and out of the bathroom and coming out of the house all the time that like it was fine. Like, go ahead, do whatever you want. Yeah, and there's water in the refrigerators. And he can go get it whenever but we were also playing outside playing in the pool and sandbox, whatever and it's hot and so we're all drinking a lot of water and because we drink a lot of water in general like we don't drink a lot of milk or juice there was no like asking for it. You can just go get it right now you're free to get the key cups on the counter. So but like when it really kind of came close to like, oh my goodness, I was like man, he kind of feels like he he kind of seemed like something's off and like right before that he had cut his chin. Like I don't remember if they were like jumping playing whatever but he had a pretty good gash and we went to like urgent care and they glued it shot and it didn't really hold. So like that kind of kept opening until part of that was like just getting an infection because like he would play with us but then he'd also come in to like lay on the couch for a little bit. And he's not really like a lay around guy. I do have one of my kiddos is like the lay around. Like he loves to go read a book for a while and not go be wild all the time. But that's not that's not really Titus. That's more you know, that's more that's actually more Lucas, we call them lazy Lou because he wants to go lay around. But so he, he would kind of come in lay down on like I kept taking his temperature and like, I mean, he's on watch, like he doesn't really have anything going on, but like, and then I kept like trying to treat this like his chin because I'm like, maybe he's getting an infection. Like, but again, I was like, I don't really want to take him to the doctor unless we see something. So I just kept trying to clean it and put like, you know, we posted on it, or you know what I mean? Like just trying to take care of it and keep it clean. So anyway, we went over to the neighbor's house, and we're trying to help, like, with the rocks, and I was hoping for a little bit. And he came over with me. And then he was like, I feel like I'm gonna throw up. And I was like, Oh, well, you're probably getting too hot. Let's go home. And so, um, and he drank like some propel while we were out there. And so he, we went back over to the house, gave him something to drink, he started feeling a little bit better. And that was a Saturday. And he laid. You know, he did, we did all the things he didn't really dinner because he didn't really feel great. He had a little bit. And then he went to bed and I checked his temperature. I checked him one more time before we went to sleep. I mean, after you've gotten to sleep, and His room was upstairs, and he shared with his brother. And then so Sunday morning he and my 13 year old is the only one who sleeps in India. But so everybody else had been up and up and moving around for a while. It was about like 930 Because church had come on like the TV, right? Like we were watching. We weren't leaving the house for watching. And I was finishing up making everybody breakfast. I'm like, where's Titus? Somebody go get your brother, please. Because it's time to eat breakfast and we're gonna we're gonna sit and do church together. And my daughter Caylee went upstairs to get him and she came carrying him down the stairs. And she's like, he doesn't feel good. And so she brought him down and like stir them up. And then he was just like breathing really heavy. Like, that's not good. And he wouldn't talk to us like, I'm like, so I like trying to like finish making these eggs and like, I'm stirring it. And I'm mostly just looking at him. And I'm like, I this is not right. Why is he breathing so hard? And why is he not talking? I took his temperature and it was something like 95.8 like, super cold. And she's like, Mom, I found him on the bathroom floor. breathing really hard. And I was like, was he asleep? Did he get up to go? That doesn't feel good. She's like, I don't know if she was asleep or not. He had his eyes open, but he's not talking to me. And so then we're trying to talk to them, or I'm trying to ask them what's wrong. He's not really responding. And I'm like, I don't even care about the stupid eggs. Like I just like, I'm like, I'm done. I don't care if these are done these. Something's not right. So I call a friend of mine, who has she fostered and then adopted a lot of medical kids. I say a lot. She fostered a lot of kiddos, and then she adopted two or three medical kiddos. So they have a lot of stuff at their house. And I'm like, Listen, I need like a pulse ox. And I need an I don't know something's not right. So she came over pretty quick, maybe within like 10 minutes, and we were trying to get like, his, like, you know, numbers and stuff. We just wouldn't read. And I was and he was so cool to head on, like wrapped in a comforter and on the front porch, like in the sun. And, and then he threw up and I'm like, Nope, we're done. I'm not staying here. We're going to the we're going we're taking him in somewhere because this is not okay, we're not talking

Scott Benner 29:09
if it wasn't, if it wasn't for COVID Do you think you would have gone sooner? 100%. Okay. Yeah, I just was wondering what you were, what you were, I mean, because on the floor unresponsive is, you know,

Charissa 29:24
yeah, I mean, like, he wasn't talking he was like stand and he was like, you know, whatever. But like he wasn't like, like, it's more like lethargic. Yeah, kind of thing. But not like not responsive. Like couldn't shake him awake. He was awake and standing talking to us, but not like something else. You know what I mean? If he was just breathing heavy and unresponsive it called 911. And they did. It had been a squad. Yeah, you know what I mean? So but he wouldn't talk to us respond to us that way. And so then he threw up everywhere and I'm like, nope. And I quickly like all over me and all over him like we quickly showered him And me and I started like, and I'm like instructing like my family, like, you go get a bag, you go get a book, you go get whatever, and get it all packed up. And I like pack stuff for him and me, like, I knew we weren't going to just be there for like, an hour, you know what I mean? Like, I knew this was a minute, like, there's something was not right. And so we got to the ER, and, you know, they do all the classic checking on things, but they were trying to get him to like, put his arms up for for an x ray. And he was like, just kind of like, crying because he like really just couldn't. And they gave him an IV in one arm. And he didn't even read. Like, he didn't like, flinch to that. And you're like, No, that's not. That doesn't feel like a normal five year old response. Right, like, and I

Scott Benner 30:50
asked you, of course, like, at that point, having no feedback yet from the doctors. What was going through your head?

Charissa 30:57
Did you have right, it was I was not understanding why they weren't moving faster.

Scott Benner 31:02
Okay. But I just felt like position where you like making things up in your head? Like, what was your, like, your worst nightmare in that moment?

Charissa 31:10
Yeah, I mean, I was like, he's never had asthma. So like, I don't understand the breathing. He isn't talking and they're trying to make him like walk down to the room, like, you know, from triage down to the room. Like, why are we doing triage at all? Like, why are we not just going to a room, this doesn't feel like you guys are understanding how urgent this feels to me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I was just like, I feel like this feels a lot more urgent to me. I feel like you are not seeing how wrong something is happening here. And I remember being enough in a daze that it was. It was a while later, that one of the nurses said after he had like, after we found out was going on, like one of the nurses said, Okay, he's no longer tech product. But like, I even realized that was happening. You know what I mean? Like, there was enough happening, that I was like, why is he and I think I think people were moving quicker. I think I was I was worried enough that I was like, I feel like y'all aren't doing enough. Why are you not doing more. So they did do a decent amount of things. They did all the lab work, they did all kinds of stuff. And we were kind of waiting and I and he the the really the rapid breathing and the fact also his skin was like really like patchy meaning like, it was kind of like purpley and like, almost had like, circular kind of pattern on it. And all of his extremities were like super cold.

Scott Benner 32:43
Sounds like its circulation was poor. Yes, yeah.

Charissa 32:47
And yeah, it was it was not good. And I think like he had probably gone into DKA, that while we were doing the rock stuff, where I had is going into DK then, and I didn't, I didn't know. And then I let him go to bed. And I I'm like, I cannot believe I let him go.

Scott Benner 33:09
Well, that was his blood sugar. When they finally figured out he had diabetes.

Charissa 33:14
It was still only like in the 380s. Which, to me doesn't sound like insane. Considering, you know, his his agency, I want to say was a 11.2. And then what kind of gets me a little bit is it because they don't do like the urine tests in the pediatricians office like had he just had one at his Wilczek made a scene it was elevated then probably because he had his wheelchair. And then to have a little point to he had to have been prior. You know what I mean? Yeah, how

Scott Benner 33:53
long did it tell him? I'm sorry. I was gonna ask how long did it take him to kind of bounce back after they got him? You know, the treatment he needed?

Charissa 34:01
Yeah, um, so he, we were in the PICU for two days. And then they they moved us to a I want to say they moved us to a regular floor, like that night. On the last like the night of the second day, and then the next morning, they did let us like that's when we kind of moved and then we move and then we left like that evening. So he was there for about three days.

Scott Benner 34:32
All right. This was completely unexpected. There's no other diabetes in your family.

Charissa 34:38
There is nothing there is no type one. I will say like both of my parents like their parents and siblings or their parents and their parents siblings. So going back like decently far right. Didn't live a long time. So I feel like there's a possibility But having been there because they had children, like my grandparents had children that died young, or they had nieces and nephews who died young. So like, I think there's probably a possibility but there's not enough history and knowledge there. To know.

Scott Benner 35:18
That's yeah, that's very interesting. How about other autoimmune issues?

Charissa 35:23
Oh, yeah, we're a mess. Well, my, my niece was probably the first one that we realize, had something. So she has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. And she was a little like, maybe two when she was diagnosed, and she was diagnosed because she had like, broken bones that were like, Why is she breaking so easily? And then it had been a number of years, because I want to say she's 12. Yes, she's in between two of mine. So she's, she's 12. So it's probably been about 10 years from there. So, you know, she was eight ish, before Titus was diagnosed. And then really, when Titus was diagnosed, that's when, really, and then kind of when we found your podcast. And I started, like, digging in more and wanting to know more than I looked for my own stuff, like what was wrong with like, I have hypothyroid. But I was like, but there's enough weird things that like, I need you to test for other things. And so that was finally, you know, I fought with that for 14 years. And then really last year, is when I was like, can you test me for Hashimotos? And then, my endocrinologist was like, yeah, it came back. Do you have that? See, see?

Scott Benner 36:51
So Well, hold on a second. So you have Hashimotos and the grandparents that you were talking about? Are they on your side of your husband's side? My side, your side? Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Keep that.

Charissa 37:04
So really, and then my, my younger sister has a probably fine to say like a an autoimmune like colon issues. So she can't have any theory of any kind. And that was really diagnosed about two years ago.

Scott Benner 37:21
colitis, maybe? Yes, yeah.

Charissa 37:23
I was trying to remember what it was earlier today. And I was like, I don't know. Don't worry, figure it out. You probably have them in your brain bank.

Scott Benner 37:33
Okay. Your sister has colitis. You have Hashimotos Your son has type one.

Charissa 37:39
Yeah, right. And then we've had like some weird things like pop up. So we did do TrialNet thank you for that. Um, so my 13 year old Emmett has one marker different than Titus. Titus only had had one also, but a different than Titus. And then my nine year old LinkedIn has to, and he was in a trial, which I originally thought, oh, we'll talk about this trial, but it was cancelled about a month ago. And so he has to and they're different than either of the other boys.

Scott Benner 38:23
Okay, so your seven year old has type one, your nine year old has two markers for type one, your 13 year old has one marker for type one. Correct. And they've all been done

Charissa 38:32
and everybody else is clear? Yeah. Okay. Including my husband and I, we all

Scott Benner 38:36
did it. You have Hashimotos Your sister has colitis. And wow, that is a lot. You okay,

Charissa 38:45
and then, and then really like my older sister has just recently been like, referred to a rheumatologist. So she's just trying to discover what's going on there. And then my oldest two have now been referred to rheumatologist to try to figure out what's kind of happening there. And we've had a few different markers of different things, not type one, but other autoimmune things come up that we're in the discovery phase of now. What are they trying to figure out? What's happening?

Scott Benner 39:14
Your older your two older ones.

Charissa 39:17
So I met had, so he's 13. But over last year, he kind of got like, like sports suddenly became super hard. And he's always been like very athletic and you know, do his things. And just super busy and you know what I mean? But he could not keep up and cross country. He could not keep up in football and we're like, Are you are you not trying? Like what? And actually I feel really bad because I felt frustrated that he wasn't trying hard enough. Because I was like, why? Why don't you care? You said you really wanted to do this. And now you're not working as hard. Now, I didn't really say to him as much, you know, to me, and I try not to be that way. But, but I did say like, you know, are you okay? Because like, you seem you seemed a little more tired today, you know, do you mean, but I really noticed that we do. My daughter is a swimmer. And we it started because we started summer league swimming. And so all of my kids do some really. So for the youngest, he still more of a thinker than a swimmer. And so during summer league swim, that's when it really clicked in my head that something was not quite right, because he couldn't hit last year's times. And normally, like last year's times, you kind of hit that and like the first week, and then you improve on your times, all summer. That all the meats because you have meat, like almost every weekend for like, six weeks,

Scott Benner 40:57
what are his complaints,

Charissa 41:00
he was just not able to keep up. Like he just couldn't keep, like, he had no endurance, I guess that's really like, the biggest thing there. So like, he'd be fine. And like the normal short spurts, he also has like ADHD, right. So like, he's also a very, he can be very busy. And then, so it's sometimes harder, I think, maybe sometimes a little bit harder to see there. Because if he was like, if you if he was like a little bit more, even all of the time, I think it would have been a little bit easier to spot but because he's him, you kind of have to like, you know, I thought maybe he was just like calming down a little bit more. You know what I mean? But then I was like, maybe he just can't keep up. But over last school year, he got everything. I mean, he had COVID and flu, and strep, and colds, and he got mono. Like he had everything. And so I think mono is kind of what we assumed was playing a big part in it. But then I was like, I need more blood work. Like please, please do more laps, like please look into it more. And so when we did that, and our pediatrician was really good about like, I need, I now need you to do this, you might think I'm crazy, but let's just let's just humor me here. And like, let's give it a shot. And so she will. And so that's what they did. And she was like, Okay, I see some markers here. Now we're going to refer you to a rheumatologist for that.

Scott Benner 42:46
What did she say?

Charissa 42:49
Um, it was.

Scott Benner 42:58
Chris, you have too many. There's too much. There's too much happening in your head. I think you should just lock them in a closet and leave for four days. It leaves them with

Charissa 43:09
did I just make people to break them? It's not fair. I was just trying to do my part to make the world a more beautiful.

Scott Benner 43:15
Well, does it feel like that? Do you feel like I have questions. But let me take a sidebar for a second. So do you feel let down because you talked about church on TV. And that makes me feel like churches important to you? Because if I had to get to church through television, I definitely wouldn't do it. So that seems like a commitment. And it is important. Yeah. So you felt like you were is that right? Like you felt like you were populating the earth. And now you're spending your time worrying that your son can't run or swim and that your other kid has diabetes, and the other one has two markers and like it, do you feel? I don't know what the word would be. I need you to tell me how it feels.

Charissa 43:57
Um, I think I know what you're saying. But no, I don't feel ripped off. I don't really feel like that so much. I do feel a little bit like I wish I wasn't making their life harder because I didn't know I had these things. But I don't know that it would have stopped me from having them because I want them you know what I mean? Like I want them in my life and I feel like they make my life better. And I feel like as a family we are strong. And and I like the idea of what we can do when we go into the world and we try to look people right so like I don't know that I would have changed anything. I think I maybe as a young person was a little bit more naive as to what life was going to be like when you got old Sir,

Scott Benner 45:00
yeah, it's a very, it's a very hard question to answer. Because if I said to you or to anybody or to me, you know, here's what life is like with this issue, whatever it is. And you don't have the context of knowing your children at that point. Like, if I could take you back in a time machine and say, Look, you don't have kids, you have no connection to them. I know, this is what you want, you want to make a family, etc. But here are the things that are going to happen. I think that the 23 year old you are, I don't know, however old you were when you were really considering having children. 25.

Charissa 45:32
Ironically, 23 is when I had my first one,

Scott Benner 45:34
I was doing the math like vaguely like, so like, so. Yeah, thank you, that you. I wonder how that you would have answered? Because I don't know, that version of me would answer either. And I don't also want to articulate on the podcast that if you gave it to do over again, I'd say no, this isn't worth it. Because that's hurtful for people to hear, who have, you know, Taiwan or my kid or whoever, you know? And I don't I don't mean it that way. There are two different. I mean, there's no way to do what I'm proposing, right. You can't actually go back and ask yourself that question before you know this. So knowing what I know, now, I wouldn't, I wouldn't make a decision that led to art not being here. Like I just wouldn't do that. But I take your point, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a tough thing to swallow, because people are now you have these people you love, and now they're struggling. And you're not, it's not like it's not the kind of struggle where you're just like, Oh, you have a headache, take this aspirin, it'll go away. It's the kind of struggle where you don't even know what's happening. And you go to a doctor, and the doctor is like, I don't know, go to a different doctor. And that's a long road. I mean, of all the kind of fascinating things that you've said or not said so far today. When I asked you what the markers were that sent your 13 year old to rheumatology, you couldn't think of it? And that's not because you're not paying attention. That's because you're overwhelmed. And there's a lot going on. Yeah, I think it sounds to me, so but what are his complaints? Like? Just the tiredness? I mean, did they check in for hypothyroidism? Or Hashimotos?

Charissa 47:09
Yeah, I while I make them always check, thyroid, and all those kinds of things, like, every year, at well checks all the time, just because that's how I, how I am it was the AMA heater was the

Scott Benner 47:22
what are their TSH has come back like, um, because a lot of times doctors will tell you, they're in range, but they're high. And then you can mitigate that and feel better.

Charissa 47:34
Right? They, so a lot of times they'll call us and tell tell us, right? And so when I asked what the numbers were specifically, I can't tell you what the numbers are at the moment, because we've been away enough from those appointments, right? Like my kids are. February, January, December. I have one in June, and then September birthday. So really, it's been closer to a year. And I don't have a great memory. Especially like for some of those types of little things. Like I know where to go look for it. Because I know I don't remember I keep it somewhere.

Scott Benner 48:14
Listen, if I was you, I remember either door. Yeah.

Charissa 48:19
But I don't remember where he's going with that. See that one? No, it's

Scott Benner 48:24
fine. Well, I was just asking, like, what if their TSH numbers were coming back over to

Charissa 48:28
Oh, yeah, I do remember like asking about it. Close enough to where I felt like it needed to be that I was like, okay, that's fine. Because they don't like I wish it was like in the patient portal where you can just go look at it. And then I could like screenshot it and save it in there and look at all of them my own self, but the pediatrician specifically will just call and go over all of the numbers and discuss it, which I do appreciate, because then we can talk about it, as opposed to just kind of looking and we can discuss what we want to do from there. Yeah. But if you forget, or you don't write it down, or you're somewhere else, then then you don't really have a great way. Or if you're like on a podcast and you're like I want to talk about the specific detail.

Scott Benner 49:17
One of my one of my anxiety points is as you're searching for the answer to a problem, I always think what if we already found the answer and we're not looking at it? Right? And like, Dude, I mean that it's that idea of wasted time. Like what if we did a blood test got this answer, and just didn't like it didn't like ring the right bells for people so it sits there written down on a piece of paper the answer to your problem and now you're moving forward to another doctor, another doctor, another doctor. And here it is way back here the answer. I always I always end especially for a person like yourself who's managing six kids? And you know, there's health issues kind of spread around you have them yourself. Like, how much time can you actually spend sitting down poring over all this stuff trying to go, hey, well, what does this mean? Somebody addressed this plus the way. We talked to doctors, you know, the communication process, you sit in, you go and you sit down in this in this thing, and they look at everything and go, Well, these tests were okay. And then you just go okay, and then you write those off then like, alright, well, that wasn't the issue. We'll go to the next thing. But I mean, just being so so your, your 13 year old for an example, his his complaints are just he's tired, and he's not performing the way he used to?

Charissa 50:43
Mm hmm. Well, that's really what I saw for him. For sure, yeah. I'm sure there's probably other things that he's not discussing. Okay. But that's what I see. For him. My daughter, I saw more like arthritis see kinds of things for her. And then a lot of her stuff was really kind of triggered when when she broke her fingers. And then she was allergic to her past. And then since then, she is super responsive to anything. It's gotten a little bit better, but like, right after she had like, a contact dermatitis from her cast, like her arm was swelling above her cast, super vague, and we had to make them take it off early.

Scott Benner 51:30
Having an auto immune response to the cast.

Charissa 51:33
Correct? Yeah. And then, but really, like, we went to a bunch of doctors, repeatedly, we ended up going to an ER finally went to a dermatologist. And then like, then we floated around for three years trying to figure out like, why is it and then not too long ago, I was like, Wait a minute. Doesn't this sound like an autoimmune response? It was triggered by something. And then so from there, and then I was like, and then you know, she's had some joint issues, she'll, she'll kind of have like swollen knees, she's six foot and 14 at the moment. So like, she and she's very athletic. Like, she's a swimmer. But she also did cross country and she's built very. I mean, you can tell that she's so in six days a week, and she runs and she works out and she Tracy eat really healthy. And you know what I mean? When we first

Scott Benner 52:27
set out the knees, they're swollen or they warm to the touch.

Charissa 52:31
Sometimes there'll be warm, red, swollen, and then sometimes like her hands, so it's more knees in hand, sometimes elbows will play in it. It definitely is affected by weather. Cold. Like when we went to Colorado A couple years ago for Thanksgiving, she was like, just so at every time we'd go outside, and like plan the snow and she you know what I mean? Like, so that's quite a lot more closer to like, my husband has psoriatic arthritis. And so we were like, Okay, maybe you're getting like maybe you actually have something more like that, which is, you know, also autoimmune. And so, okay, well, maybe that's kind of also happening there. Is she?

Scott Benner 53:17
Is she single rheumatory. Physician?

Charissa 53:21
Yes, yes, yes, she's she. So the rheumatologist did a whole bunch of stuff, including a lot of genetic testing. And then we see him again in middle of September, to kind of go over everything. But he also sent her to like an ophthalmologist, he sent her for a CAT scan of her hands, and an MRI of her hands. And also to like a specific allergist. For kind of looking at why she reacted to the cast, because she also gets like a contact dermatitis looking rash as opposed to more hives. But like, for weird things, like sometimes she'll like eat peanut butter, and we're like, oh, this brand like she can't eat just anymore, right? Like that's not a brand that she can eat. The rest of the family could eat it but she can't. So we were all natural peanut butter. Well now even some of those she can't for like maybe it's the oil in the peanut butter. Because she can do like PD fish. She can toss that like a protein shake. And that's okay. So it's like there's some weird things there, which she just found out she's allergic to Koloff honey, which is a pine. And in resin is like the biggest thing that it's in. And it's in like paints and makeups and all different things. So I don't know, we'll see where we are from there. But they both had that like definite high marker of that as a theater.

Scott Benner 54:57
Right? Well, I mean I'm glad everybody's being seen, then you're seems like you're moving towards something. I mean it. The red knees, the heat, the cold and hot. Like that does sound and there's RA in your family. Right. So, I mean, that seems like half the doctors talked about what they would do to try to help her if this is what it is.

Charissa 55:19
Yeah, they kind of told her like, at least tentatively that like it's an idiopathic arthritis at the moment, which is more like, for from what I've read, like more for like, kids who are like diagnosed like in that team area. And so at the moment, it's still more of a kind of treat the symptoms a little bit more, but it does have like some skin element to it for her, which is more on her scalp. Which is super fun when you're a teenager, you know. So but we just got a new, like treatment from the from the dermatologist. And that seemed to actually really help significantly. That's more for more for Soria for psoriasis, then just eczema, which is kind of what they were treating it like before, but they can kind of go hand in hand.

Scott Benner 56:22
Well, yeah, there's a lot also on top of all that, ADHD, there's some an NIH writings about it. One of them is a personal history and maternal history of autoimmune diseases were associated with increased risk of ADHD. And several authors have proposed associations between ADHD and inflammatory mechanisms due to positive findings regarding inflammation related genes. So it's really mean that's a lot. It's just if if juice, are you okay, I asked you earlier and you blew right past it, but

Charissa 56:56
Oh, am I okay? Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, okay. I don't I think I didn't even hear you. I'm sorry. No,

Scott Benner 57:04
no, don't worry. I just I wasn't sure if you were didn't hear me or you were just like, I'm not okay. And I don't need to say it.

Charissa 57:09
I just use okay, what's okay? Even mean? I'm not even sure at this

Scott Benner 57:13
point. You know, I'm the most stunning thing you've said is that you help your neighbor pick up rocks, my neighbor is. I don't think I've ever shared this, but we live across the street from I don't mean this, like, in a bad way. But she's so old, this very, very old woman, like when we moved in 20 years ago. And I first saw her I thought, oh, that lady will be dead soon. Like, that's how old she is, you know what I mean? And, and she lives with her nephew. But if she's in her 80s, he's, you know, in his 50s. And he was sort of, he's the he used to be the guy in town who would, you know, kind of show up, like passed out places. And that doesn't seem that doesn't seem to be anymore. But they're very, I don't know the word. I can't explain the word other than just say that the piece of property they have. They have filled in every square inch with a bush or a tree. Like no one's going to buy this house unless they want an arboretum Plater. They spend every waking hour tending to the, to the grounds. And besides the fact that she will sometimes scream and yell at you, when you're driving in and out of your driveway for reasons that are completely innocuous. Like you're not doing Vicky come out of the you come out of your driveway, stop at the end go to turn. And you just hear ask. You're like, Okay, we've never we've never spoken we don't know each other like I tried waving and talking in the beginning, but it just didn't matter. They wouldn't respond. Anyway, I tell you all this to tell you that there are this is not an infrequent thing. But frequently, she will go outside with a heavy pair of metal kitchen shears and cut the weeds at ground level with them. And she'll she'll spend days doing it. Like just and there. There was this one time. We were all up late. Hold on. I swear this happened. Let me get a drink. You were in the house. We watched a movie. It was late. Two o'clock in the morning. You're closing everything down. The house was getting quiet. And all we could hear was like Ting Ting Ting and everybody's like, what is that? And we got quiet like it's outside. It's outside. So we start looking out the windows because you know what the hell Ting Ting. And then finally one of the kids goes, Oh my God. Now it's after two o'clock in the morning. She's across the street cutting the weeds with their scissors. Oh, that's what the thinking was. So when you were like, we helped our neighbor pick up rocks, I was like, oh, people talk to their neighbors. They liked them enough to do. I mean, I would like her if she didn't like, creep the enemy if I'm being honest. But she I know, she's like, she's like a Scooby Doo bad guy. You know what I mean?

Charissa 1:00:22
I mean, that's pretty creepy. It is very, I don't like that. I can't

Scott Benner 1:00:26
even tell you the story of one time my kids were playing in the driveway. And she just randomly started screaming at them. And I think I had had enough. So I went to the end of the driveway. And I had harsh words for her, which seemed to push her back into the house. And when it was over, I turned I looked at my daughter's friend, and she was like, oh, oh, and I'm like, sorry, I didn't mean to sorry. We just I'd like she can't yell at you guys. Like, it's like, you're not doing anything. You're just existing on our property. And she's just, I, there's something clearly, let me be honest, there's something very wrong, you know what I mean? So most of the times, they're innocuous. And every once in a while, they're just like, out of their minds anyway. Let me ask you here at the end, how your son's managing with the type one and how you're making out with it. That is it? Did you get certain technologies? How did you start? Like, how's it going?

Charissa 1:01:26
Yeah, we got the Dexcom, G six, pretty, pretty quick, not quite as immediately as I wish we would have looking back. I think the whole like, put something on your kid was this like was a moment for my husband, like when we were still in the hospital. But within like a month or so we got it. And it's magic. Everybody needs one. And then he's on the Omni pod now. And he has been for I guess it'll be two years in November. So and that's really been really very, very helpful. I wanted him on the on a pump, simply because his, we needed to be able to adjust his basil, we needed to be significantly lower at school and significantly higher, at night and at home. Like we needed to be able to double or triple it and be able to step it up and step it back. It almost looks like stair steps, like when you're looking at the line. And that was super helpful. He's also for the most part, adrenaline still makes him dropped more than it makes him rise. I don't I don't know why his body wants to try to kill them when it's supposed to try to save them.

Scott Benner 1:02:52
I've heard other people say that, by the way that like that fear and anxiety where some people get a bump up makes them crash down.

Charissa 1:02:59
Yeah, so like, for him, like when he walks into the school building. His his, his his basil. He's around like 11 units during the summer. And as soon as we hit like school, he can probably go down, like almost a full unit just for being at school during the day, and sometimes even a little bit less. And we don't necessarily always have to cover every car, we're like at home, I still would cover like to, you know what I mean? Like the only time I'm like, you might be okay is if you're like at five and you're eating something that says it's one I'm like, okay to eat that. That one thing right now. You know what I mean? Otherwise, no, we're, we have to cover that. So, but at school, you might even be able to go to like, five or whatever, and not have to necessarily worry so much about it. So it's weird. And then the second he walks out of the building, you know, like at three o'clock or whatever he that, like that moment is when his Basal will go from, you know, whatever it is. It'll it'll, it'll double for him to walk out the door.

Scott Benner 1:04:19
I'm sorry. So while he's at school, he almost needs the equivalent of like five units a day but away from school. It's more like 11 Total Basal.

Charissa 1:04:28
Well, during during the school year, he gets around like closer to nine and 9.4 or five or something, right? That's about what it is with all the adjustments, but like, during the summer he was 11 Solid. Just just Basal

Scott Benner 1:04:47
so when he's not, not at school, he's getting like point four or five an hour on average, but when he's that you lose a couple of of units on that total Basal and most of it goes away during the day too. I'm always in school.

Charissa 1:05:01
Yeah, I mean, he'll go down to about like point two, five, during during different parts of the day, like during recess and lunch?

Scott Benner 1:05:08
Because he's super active at school.

Charissa 1:05:11
Um, yeah, I mean, he'll play hard when he's at recess. He's not wonder like, kind of do nothing but like a though it will need to start almost as soon as he walks in the building to drop down. And as soon as he walks out, he will start rising. The second he comes out of the building because he starts relaxing. And then when he falls asleep, it's significantly more than like, as soon as he falls asleep,

Scott Benner 1:05:36
every time that is super interesting, because Arden's exactly the same. The opposite. Like she needed, she needed more at school, and the minute she leaves left school, her blood sugar started to drop.

Charissa 1:05:47
Well, when you were talking about that on episode previous, I just did whatever you said their

Scott Benner 1:05:51
opposite. The backwards. Yeah, like I just said, I was like, that's that makes sense.

Charissa 1:05:55
Okay, let's just do opposite of what he just said, well, then that will probably work. And then it kind of did.

Scott Benner 1:06:00
Good. Well, yeah, that's really something I, I just, I'm not sure what to say? Or do you look at your other two with markers and wonder if they're gonna get type on?

Charissa 1:06:14
Um, sometimes even the ones that don't have markers every now and again, I'll be like, I feel like I need to just poke your finger real quick here. Because I think that is always now in the back of your head. You know, like, Are we are we sure we're good? Like, you just went to the bathroom? Like 18 times? Give it UTI? Are you trying to have something? You know, like, what's going on? Or, or just have a bunch to drink? That's also a thing. But it's still a little bit. There. I don't worry about it, though. I'm not, I guess I'm not afraid of it anymore. I think if you'd asked me that first year, I'd have been afraid of it more, but now I'm like, Well, I mean, we know what we're gonna do, and they're more ready to like take it on, even though their own selves, then then we would have been and now they have somebody. We had nobody until halfway through Tituss first grade year to even know another kid who had type one. Like we just, we had nobody near us. And the podcast was, like, legit are my best friend. Like it was the place I could go to know. Someone or something. Oh, that's great.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that. Thank you for telling me. Do you have? Do you think that the type, the type one doesn't scare you as much because you now have perspective about elements that don't seem to have answers? Like I always think one is at least it has an answer.

Charissa 1:07:52
Yeah, I think I, I 100%. I do feel like it does. And I don't. It was an answer. It was a quick answer to Right. Like as soon as, as soon as I knew for sure that something was wrong. You know, it wasn't. It wasn't very long. Once we were in the hospital. I think we were really only there for probably two hours in the ER before. Literally the ER doctor came running and it was like, I know what's wrong. We're canceling this ultrasound. He has type one. I'll be right back. And then she was like, Okay, I'm coming back. Let's talk about it. And you're going up to the PICU. And like, it was scary, but at the same time, like, Okay, we had an answer. Yeah. We've had other things come up the we're like, okay, we still don't have an answer. What's going on there?

Scott Benner 1:08:42
I find that Yeah. Yeah,

Charissa 1:08:45
that feels that feels harder than okay. Well, this will be the next thing. And we know what to watch for. So that doesn't feel as scary.

Scott Benner 1:08:54
Yeah, no, I It's a weird thing to say. But I I understand how you feel and I agree. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, I appreciate you doing this. This was it's enlightening. There's a lot going on in your in your life, obviously. And I have one last question though. What was the first thing like, was it Titus is type one. When When was the first thing first time you thought oh, one of my kids has an issue.

Charissa 1:09:25
Yeah, I swear it was not long before Titus was diagnosed that I said, How do we have six kids and nothing's wrong with anyone. Like there should be something happening. I feel like that's thing that should be happening. That's doesn't feel normal. So I think maybe I was just like living in a happy little bubble for a minute. And then now it's like, you know, I think that yeah, so Titus was the first okay. Like, big thing and then I feel like honest flea, his diagnosis helped us to kind of look into other things, not just for my household, like my personal home, but like, also for my siblings, and my, you know, people started kind of looking a little bit more, and I have friends who reach out to me and say, Oh, I have this friend, they're having these symptoms. What should I do here? You know, I think you should call your doctor and go, you know, ask for a test here. And if you're super worried about tonight, then go get a glucometer. And check it out real quick. And, you know, or if you're super concerned, and you want to come over, like come over, I will check it. So I've met people in town at like, the local, you know, little Dairy Queen, or, or whatever. And then like, Hey, let me do a finger poke in the car, see how you don't have to worry, you know, so? Or, you know, and you do or please go get a Dexcom or, you know, whatever it is, you know, it's been nice to, I guess, have a community and being willing being able to help a little bit more

Scott Benner 1:11:08
that way. Are you saying that the things that you're identifying in your family are helping other members of your family identify things, too? Yes. So they have complaints that they were ignoring, but now you've given like, voice to it? And they're like, Oh, that is how we feel, too.

Charissa 1:11:25
Yeah, like, what if what if that's an autoimmune thing that's connected to a bunch of things as opposed to your your leg hurts? And that is that shouldn't be, you shouldn't have to worry, that shouldn't hurt for 30 years. You know, what do you mean? Like, what is there's more to it than that. And then, and then also, like how we advocate at a doctor's office has changed significantly, like, because of trying to do type one, right? Like, I want a pump, and I want it before you said, I'm ready. So like, Let me prove to you that I'm ready, here's all the things, here's what I'm gonna do. And here's why I need it, I need to be able to change the basil, I need to be able to just sit here and here and here. I need to be able to keep him in range here. And so, you know, being able to go in and say like, this is what I want, and why. And then going into my doctor's office being like, now for myself, I need, I need you to check these things. And I want you to adjust my medicine here. Also, I've changed this for myself, and this is working. So I need to make this adjustment. And then you know, same thing, like when I call my mom, I'm like, hey, you need to say this to your doctor, don't wait for them to call you call them. Tell them what you need. And if they're not listening, new doctor, that's the next step. Well, no, no,

Scott Benner 1:12:44
that's really, that's, that's excellent that you're doing that and helping people to, to kind of advocate for themselves better and for yourself, but it's something good has come from it. It's a it's helping other people realize what their what their ailments might be. And hopefully, they'll they'll do what you're doing and chase it down and see what they can figure out.

Charissa 1:13:05
Yeah, I mean, if you don't know that you need to push you just trust this trust a system that is not quite there, then.

Scott Benner 1:13:15
Dr. Sachs okay. Okay, great. We just how many

Charissa 1:13:18
do they see you live with it? They don't. Yeah. So I was telling them. I was

Scott Benner 1:13:22
just telling Jenny yesterday that my mom's blood pressure went up. And the doctor was like, Oh, we're just going to give her more medication. And you know, it didn't work. And so I said, Well, what are you going to do now? And the nurse said, Well, your mom's got heart problems, like, you know, these things don't get better. They get worse. And I was like, Oh, wow, they gave up how about that? And I called the doctor and I said due respect, your general practitioner said, my mom, a cardiologist sent a cardiologist. The cardiologist was like, oh, yeah, there's new newer medication that works better, we'll switch her and in like two days, her blood pressure is coming down. But the other doctor would have never known to do that and wouldn't have asked any more questions. He did this he in his brain he went this is the problem. This is the answer I have at my disposal. That didn't work. Oh, well. That was it. Yeah, you know, it's just you do really have to keep pushing for yourself somebody somebody might know something.

Charissa 1:14:17
There Yeah. And keep looking until it until you have it you know, I did a bunch of I did a bunch of reading after tidy Titus was diagnosed, I wanted to know everything. Right away. Your podcast was recommended pretty quickly on like Facebook, but it took me a minute to get there, which I think was like, the stupidest thing I ever did. As far as like weight because I expected it to not be so much knowledge. So now when I recommend to people I don't just say like, Hey, listen to the podcast. I'm like, You need to listen to this episode. And then these things or goals in the 411 which will tell you where you want to start from there like this area. or that area and go find your questions answered there. Because it's not just a listen to people chat all the time, although that's kind of what I did. But there's so much learning there that it was beyond and I spent hours and hours like, I don't know that I did anything else for probably six months straight. Like, it didn't watch TV. I didn't read anything else. All I did was like podcasts was on while I was painting and cooking and cleaning, and washing, you know, like, whatever I was doing Sure, it was on, and I was learning. And it was amazing.

Scott Benner 1:15:36
I'm glad Wow, that's that's really makes me happy to know. You don't you know, you don't do something like this and hope that it doesn't. It doesn't help people. So it's nice to hear it. Actually, I got a I get an email when somebody leaves a new review for the podcast. And one popped up while you were talking. It's so funny how much it it mimics what you just said. She said in this. In this review, I just started listening to Episode One. I'm already hooked. It is hard to find a trustworthy podcast that specializes in type one. So, you know, that's what we're trying to do. So it's nice that it's reaching people that way. It really is. Chris, I really appreciate you doing this. I'm going to I have I'm up against time today I have to jump into another thing. But I want to thank you for for taking the time to tell us your story and the story of your giant family of eight p of eight people in your family. My little crew Yeah, no kidding. Well, I wish you all the best.

Charissa 1:16:36
Thank you very much got it was a lot of fun.

Scott Benner 1:16:44
Let's thank Karissa for coming on the show and sharing her story. And let's thank cozy earth.com for offering 35% off sitewide with the offer code juice box at checkout. And don't forget to check out speaking of checking out contour next one.com forward slash juice box like I said earlier and I sincerely mean this, you're using a blood glucose meter. The information that comes back from it is important to you. The least you could do for yourself is make sure you're getting a really good accurate meter contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it very much. Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group. links in the show notes links to juicebox podcast.com. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast

#892 Southern Bells

Mary's son has type 1 diabetes and his father does too.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 892 of the Juicebox Podcast.

This episode started so bizarrely that I've chopped off the front of it and put it at the back of the episode so you can hear it. Mary is the mother of a child with type one diabetes. She came on to tell her story, but somehow, somehow her scheduled recording slot was while she was on vacation. So she did this from a hotel. And at first she tried to do it from her car, and then back into the hotel room, but her kids had to go outside. It's comically funny about the interruptions and the noises. But somehow it all goes together in this episode, so I think you'll find it delightful. There are chunks of time when I just cut out noises so you don't have to hear them. I hope this doesn't stop you from listening to it. You really shouldn't. It's rather interesting. Anyway, nothing here that Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan and becoming bold with insulin. You know that one? If you have type one, or you're the caregiver of someone with type one, please complete the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. It helps diabetes research and helps you It helps me t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Alright, we're almost up to it. today's podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Now Omni pod makes the Omni pod five which is automated. And the Omni pod dash which is not but they're both tubeless and amazing. And you can learn more about them at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll like talk for real although I have to imagine a lot of the noise is going to be at the end of the episode for people listen to it. But that's

Mary 2:12
so my name is Mary and I live in Savannah, Georgia. I my son Jackson, who just turned eight was diagnosed may 5, um, of 2020 2020 with type one

Scott Benner 2:35
over two years now.

Mary 2:38
No, I'm sorry. It's been he just had his one year in May. Excuse

Scott Benner 2:41
me. 2021. Okay, so how old is he now?

Mary 2:45
He just turned eight. Jackson, right.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
Yeah.

Scott Benner 2:52
Do you have any, any autoimmune issues?

Mary 2:55
No, not that I'm aware of. But what was interesting was my husband had been diagnosed type two for years, you know, and he'd been on Metformin and whatnot. And then I would say maybe about five or six months post Jackson's diagnosis. I was noticing at night that my husband, his name is Keith. He was like going to the bathroom, like ferociously at night, you know, like multiple times and like, you know, like Niagara Falls. I mean, it was like, there's something going on. So I said to him after about the second night, I'm like, You need to go check your sugar because this is like exactly what we went through with Jackson. And he did and the it just read Hi.

Scott Benner 3:45
So did they decide that his medication was wrong or did he develop type one?

Mary 3:51
He has type one it was it's the later or Latta however, it's pronounced. Yeah, he went, and he got off the medication and he's on a pump now. He had all the testing done everything and I mean, everything just came back. Wow. In that in the type one direction how long

Scott Benner 4:12
was Keith being treated for type two?

Mary 4:15
Um, see me about six or seven years really long time?

Scott Benner 4:23
Do they think he had type one the whole time and it was just it was just Lada. And it was just the onset was very slow.

Speaker 3 4:29
Yeah. Oh, that's a shame. Do I know

Scott Benner 4:33
Yeah. Do you look back did it did it impact his life? Not knowing it was Lada?

Mary 4:39
Yeah, I mean, well, I look that I mean, he's always like, loved, you know, sugar. And, you know, like his, you know, like his moods. And things, you know, like looking back, it's like, wow, this makes sense.

Scott Benner 4:57
Did you find yourself applying your professional knowledge? Do his behavior and coming up with the wrong answer, but it looks right. No, no, you didn't do that. I gotcha. You mean like when you see like, like the anger or something like that, or like behavior changes because of blood sugars, it's easy to think of them as maybe being something else. So I was just wondering if that ever happened?

Mary 5:21
Well, I mean, I never thought about the types Hill. You know, like, I didn't think I didn't know much. I mean, I knew about type one because my maternal aunt is type one, she developed type one. God when she was like, in her mid to late 40s. Okay. And she'll tell you that it's because of her husband, and all the stress and he put on her

because there's no other at least that we know of autoimmune stuff. Okay. In our family.

Scott Benner 5:57
So your aunt has type one, your husband has type one. And now your son.

Unknown Speaker 6:03
Yes. Got it. Okay.

Scott Benner 6:08
Well, how did you notice your son's diagnosis? Like, did it come up on you harshly? And did you end up in the hospital? Or do you figure it out before it happened?

Mary 6:18
No, he, he got COVID. Which I was not suspecting at all. Like he, he fell asleep on the way home from baseball practice. Um, one evening, and which never happened. It just was out of character. And then we got home and he was burning up. He had like 102. So I gave him Motrin. You know, he went to bed, woke up in the morning completely fine. So I was just keeping them out for that day and was ready to send them back. And the school was like, No, we need to COVID test. I was like, Oh, alright, whatever. It's not COVID. You know? He went in and tested positive for COVID. And then I would say, three or so weeks, that was an April. Yeah, it was about two to three weeks that we were noticing. He was more tired. He didn't look right, you know, his color was off, he was more pale. And it looked like he was starting to lose weight. And every morning, every single morning, he would wake up wet. I mean, wet to the point where it was like, obviously, there was something wrong, like he had never He doesn't do that, you know, he was six years old at the time. And I mean, it was so bad. And every morning. Just he was so upset. And you know, it's funny, because just to go off topic for a second. Looking back, he would wake up some mornings, really cranky, you know, he's not a morning person anyway. But some mornings, he'd wake up just really cranky. And I would think to myself, he just needs like some shirt, like some juice or sugar to pep him up. And he would do that he'd drink a cup of orange juice every morning. And he would be a completely different person. Hmm. Which is so interesting to me. But anyway, so I noticed the you know, the wetting the bed was really concerning. And the thirst and you know, so one of my good friends is a pediatrician. And I was like, I'm bringing him in, I want like the glucose tested, you know, your everything tested, and we went in, and it was funny because the nurse came in, she did the finger poke. And she had a lollipop with her. And because, you know, he was gonna get a needle, right? So she, she took his blood, and it just the, the meter just set high. And she's like, well, it gets you're not going to be getting this and lovely. Say Chase. Okay. And you know, he had high ketones and everything in the urine. So the pediatrician came in was crying

Scott Benner 9:27
the pediatrician. So in just a couple of moments that the nurse has waved a lollipop in front of your son and then said, No, he can't have it. And the pediatrician was crying.

Mary 9:37
He was crying, dude. Like what? I mean, look, I come from the northeast, like things are different in the south, I'll tell you, but like, I just thought that was very, like inappropriate,

Scott Benner 9:49
unprofessional nonsense, a lot of things, actually. But

Mary 9:53
I mean, it's like, he's a great guy. He's a good doctor, but like, I was just very taken aback. So I just was like, like he couldn't even get the words out that he had type one whereas like I kind of already knew. So I just remember like it was yesterday I pulled my mask down I looked him dead in the face and I'm just like

Scott Benner 10:20
gee voc hypo pan has no visible needle, and is a pre mixed auto injector of glucagon for treatment of very low blood sugar. In adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Find out more go to Jeeva glucagon.com forward slash juicebox G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or phaeochromocytoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk. My daughter Arden began wearing the Omnipod tubeless insulin pump on February 4 2009. That was 5093 days ago. Or another way to think of it 1697 pods ago. At that time, she was four years old. Hang out with me for a moment while I tell you more about the Omni pod Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Today Arden is 18 and still wearing Omni pod back then there was one choice just one pod but today you have a decision to make. Do you want the Omni pod five, the first and only tubeless automated insulin delivery system to integrate with the Dexcom G six, because if you do, it's available right now for people with type one diabetes ages two years and older. The Omni pod five is an algorithm based pump that features smart adjust technology. That means that the Omni pod five is adjusting insulin delivery based on your customized target glucose that's helping you to protect against high and low blood sugars, both day and night. Automatically. Both the Omni pod five and the Omni pod dash are waterproof, you can wear them while you're playing sports swimming in the shower the bathtub, anywhere really. That kind of freedom coupled with tubeless a tubeless pump, understand it's not connected to anything. The controller is not connected to the pot, the pod is not connected to anything, you're wearing it on the body tube loosely, no tubing to get caught on doorknobs or anywhere else that tubing with those other insulin pumps can get caught Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, that's where you go to find out more, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash, you should check that out too, when you get to my lake omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. So if you're looking for an insulin pump that is tubeless waterproof, and automated. You're looking for the Omni pod five, if you want to do it on your own, and you're not looking for the automation, Omni pod dash for full safety risk information and free trial Terms and Conditions. Please also visit omnipod.com forward slash juicebox.

Mary 13:17
Is this a life threatening emergency right now? He's like, No, ma'am. It's that I'm like, do I have time to go home and pack a bag? And he's like you have about an hour. I'm like, peace. See you later, dude. Like we're out?

Scott Benner 13:28
Did you give them your business card for you? Like, hey, I'm a psychotherapist. And you're not great at this. So you might want to talk to somebody. Did you ever resolve why he was crying?

Mary 13:41
Well, it's funny because he called the room the next day to check on Jackson. And I was like, he's like, I just I'm just so so upset about this. And I mean, I was like, Look, we're being really positive about this, buddy. You know, this isn't a death sentence. I mean, we're gonna we're gonna crush this, we're gonna be just fine. You know, like, you know, in my adrenaline driven state, you know, and trying to be super positive in front of Jackson. And I was like, it sounds like you got a little upset or looks like got a little upset over there yesterday. He's like, Yeah, I

Scott Benner 14:14
just see a younger person.

Mary 14:17
No, he's older. He's like, I don't know, maybe in his early 50s, late 40s. He has three kids, three boys. Interesting. I just I'm not used to delivering bad news. And I was like, You're a frickin doctor.

Scott Benner 14:31
He's like, I'm a pediatrician. I usually just tell you if they get taller, I'm like, look at this chart. See how they're growing on this thing? I gotta go to the next room now. See you later the lady. Oh,

Mary 14:42
yeah, no, it's like two seconds.

Scott Benner 14:44
Yeah. That's that's interesting. Might have is definitely not the right job for him. That's for sure.

Mary 14:51
I know and he wins like Best of Savannah every year.

Scott Benner 14:56
People are probably like, he's so empathetic. I'm not wrong, right? Like, it's nice for empathy but like, he, you're looking for somebody to like, present a bit of a, like a, I don't know, like a reasonable just comport yourself differently. Right. Um, I don't know what I'm trying to say like you shouldn't be.

Mary 15:16
Totally I mean, where I come from, you know, and the way I was trained like that is ethically inappropriate. And also like, you don't do that as a doctor in front of the

Scott Benner 15:26
child. Yeah, right. I mean, all right. Anyway, let's get past that, because we're not going to figure that out.

Mary 15:31
I know. So that I felt like I had to go into like, even more like superhuman mode to be like, you know, you are going to be just fine. You know, because Jackson was so scared. Yeah, we both were

Scott Benner 15:42
right. Let's forget that the person that you think of as knowing everything came into the room crying telling you what's wrong with you, because that's just very often is Jackson had any, like, repercussions from that? Or is it a moment that just got passed and pretty easily?

Mary 15:56
passed him pretty easily?

Scott Benner 15:58
It's a lot happening the next day, I would imagine probably took his mind off of it. How long were you in the hospital?

Mary 16:05
We were in the hospital. Three days, two nights,

Scott Benner 16:10
and you leave with technology are no no, nothing. Just needles.

Mary 16:17
Just needles, you know, typical, like mo with diabetes. Like here, we're just giving you what you need to stay alive. And like go Google everything. Good luck, you know,

Scott Benner 16:29
COVID diagnosis to right.

Unknown Speaker 16:32
Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:33
So did they limit people in and out of the room? Or?

Mary 16:37
No, he had been past that two week mark. Okay. So we were all right. But it's funny because the, the dietitian and all the doctors that and nurses that were in and out, they all taught us, you know, like everyone says they teach you to eat and then Bolus. And then they were like, there's a new endocrinologist here at the hospital that you're gonna see. And, you know, he does things kind of differently. He's gonna want you to Pre-Bolus and, um, but we're not going to teach you that. That way. My husband and I were like, what's the photo frame? That's fine. I was like, What the? I mean, okay, so you're gonna teach? So, I mean, at that time, we were just like, I mean, that makes sense. I mean, you don't know how much he's really going to eat so sure. But and then we didn't see the doctor for like, a month. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:42
that's what I was gonna say, right? If you didn't, it's not like you saw the doctor immediately. So they gave the hospital what, although it is kind of nice of them to say, look, we're gonna teach you one way, but at some point, you're gonna go to a doctor, and he's gonna talk about it differently.

Mary 17:56
Yeah, but I mean, I don't know, looking back. It's weird. It's just weird. It's like, well, I want to know, the new stuff. Like if it's new, there's like a new method to do it. That's like, help. What I want to know all

Scott Benner 18:10
about that, right. So. So in your note to me, you talk about mental health stuff, caregiver burnout, and a couple of other things that we're going to go through. So I'm going to start with you. I mean, it's it's been a year or so. Do you? Do you feel burned out already?

Mary 18:29
I did. You did.

Scott Benner 18:30
Okay.

Mary 18:32
Yeah. I mean, I, I'm, I'm like the person I'm, I'm in they're like, in a crisis. Awesome. Um, they're positive. I'm crushing it, but then I have, you know, a downtime after that, that is exhausting. Because I've just given more than I should, you know, and I, I definitely, I wouldn't say I got to the point of burnout, but I was very close to it, for sure. And you know, issues and my husband was diagnosed, and I have a four year old now. Um, it it's, it hasn't been until like, recently, really, that I feel confident, comfortable and like, centered in like, my role here in my my family. I mean, it's, it's just been the biggest upheaval ever,

Scott Benner 19:33
like, does it just feel like there's not enough time in the day, and then you don't have the energy and you sort of like, create that kind of fake energy to handle the thing and then you crash afterwards?

Mary 19:43
Yeah. And then there's like a checkout period, you know, like, I can't even think about, like, how many carbs are in this or I can't even like, like, have a conversation with anybody.

Scott Benner 19:58
I think I understand. And that lasted for how long?

Mary 20:05
I would say maybe like five months,

Scott Benner 20:09
about five months. How was that at the beginning? Or did it wait a little and then hit you

Mary 20:14
know, it it? It was, it definitely wasn't at the beginning because I was in like Rockstar mode, you know? So it probably a few months after that,

Scott Benner 20:27
okay. And when he was diagnosed you had your second was like three years old at that point. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. And you're working full time?

Mary 20:37
No, I had just started going back, like one day a week, I had been a stay at home mom for seven years. And I just started to go back to just like getting my feet wet again, because the kids were getting older, they're going to be at school full time. And like, I just I couldn't be at home anymore. You know.

Scott Benner 20:57
So you were just kind of embarking back on working when this happened? Did you? Were you able to keep that going? During the diagnosis? No, no, you're like, I'm back. I'm gone. Goodbye.

Unknown Speaker 21:09
I'm out. Peace out guys about a kid. You know.

Scott Benner 21:16
But you're back now. We're now wow,

Mary 21:19
you are so back now. I'm almost. Uh, let's see, I do about 25 hours a week now.

Scott Benner 21:26
Okay. And what's your training?

Mary 21:30
I have my Master's in Counseling Psychology. And I also have a degree in addiction counseling. Okay. Have you been licensed?

Scott Benner 21:42
Does that help you in your personal stuff? Or?

Mary 21:48
You know, to be honest with you know, I never really did until like, lately, you know, now I? I don't know, I it's just I don't know, I guess I just got more mature. After all this?

Unknown Speaker 22:04
How do you know don't say, how do you mean?

Mary 22:07
Like? Oh, I don't know, just being more like responsible with myself. And I guess yeah. Just like being more honest with myself about what I want. And what makes me happy and what doesn't? You know,

Scott Benner 22:28
it's interesting, isn't it? You can have a profession. And still, it's hard to apply the things in your own life.

Mary 22:36
Oh, absolutely. A lot of therapists are crazy, by the way. Sorry. All you people out there, like

Scott Benner 22:43
coming out for you. Or what do we mean?

Mary 22:47
Well, I mean, it's yeah, there's, there's truth to it, for sure.

Scott Benner 22:51
Gotcha. So it so you kind of get drawn to the profession, hoping to help yourself and then other people

Mary 22:59
100% at that back at that time.

Scott Benner 23:04
You broke up. Mary, are you there? Mary? What? Oh, you just broke up for a second back at that time. And then you disappeared?

Mary 23:13
Yeah. No, that's what it just back at that time? Absolutely. I mean, I was in my 20s wild and crazy, you know. So it turns out, I really like it. And I'm actually pretty good at it. So I really thoroughly enjoy my work,

Scott Benner 23:30
you should leave yourself a Yelp review that says I'm pretty good at it. So, so when? I mean, do you have? Do you have mental health issues at this moment with as as applies to diabetes? Are you seeing stuff with your kid? Or? No? Are you guys doing okay?

Mary 23:54
No, we're doing okay. I guess my only concern with with Jackson is he's, he's always been like an old soul. You know, he's a sensitive child. He's very intuitive. He's, he gets along with everybody. He you know, he's just he's a wonderful child. And I, I worry sometimes that he takes it to like the next level that he doesn't need to, whereas like, he's almost putting himself in this adult position. And I have to remind him a lot that this isn't your responsibility. This is for me to meet a deal but like with Luke, Luke is my other one. He's a maniac. Hilarious. He's just all over the place and like, Jackson gets very anxious at times. If Luke isn't close by, you know, if we're out and about somewhere or if I'm not holding Luke's hand, I just noticed that Jackson is it makes him nervous.

Scott Benner 25:07
Is that always her prior or just since diabetes? Since diabetes? Okay, so he worries about everybody.

Unknown Speaker 25:18
Yes, you have any anxiety?

Mary 25:21
Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's certainly gotten better than what how I used to be. I mean, I had a lot of like, postpartum anxiety. That's when it was really bad for me after both my pregnancies. But it's, it's settled down quite a bit.

Scott Benner 25:44
Did it happen naturally? Or did you do something to impact it? What your anxiety? Like, did you?

Mary 25:53
Did it happen?

Scott Benner 25:54
No, no? Did it? Has it been resolving naturally? Or have you been taking steps to do something for it?

Mary 26:00
Oh, yeah. I mean, I, when I was like, after I had my kids, I went on medication. And I have medication as like, like, as needed. Now, if you know, anything ever occurs, which it doesn't, but yeah, just getting back into, you know, healthier, saying, Who's that work? Like going to therapy going, you know, going for walks, spending more quality time with my loved ones, you know?

Scott Benner 26:36
I understand. I do, actually. How do you. So in your job, let's get away from you for a second in your job. If someone comes to you and says, I feel I think I feel depressed? How do you go about? Like, what are the steps you take to figure out the level of their depression? Or if they actually are depressed?

Mary 26:57
What does how long it was going on? And what if, you know, you're feeling depressed? Like, what does that mean? What does that look like? How like, what are you experiencing? So I'm looking for, you know, loss of interest in things, change in appetite, change in sleep, things like that. And go from there? If do all things started or triggered it, you know,

Scott Benner 27:29
do all of those things need to exist? Loss of appetite, a lack of interest in things that you were once interested in, like sleep? Etc? Do they all have to exist? Or could you just have bad sleep or just not want to eat? Like, etc? Like, what makes you think, oh, this person is depressed?

Mary 27:49
Yeah, well, those are, those are the main symptoms of a depressive episode. And there's periods of time that are that like coincide with those symptoms. So if you've had that, you know, the like, say, three out of the four symptoms for a period of two weeks, you know, then it might be like a, like a dysthymia. Or, you know, but if it's like 30 days, then you're probably in a major depressive episode. And I am pretty sure I'm right on the timing, I'd have to go back to my DSM, but I'm pretty sure that's what it

Scott Benner 28:25
is. Okay. How many people do you think, experienced this and don't realize it, and it's never an issue for them afterwards? Or does it persist? No matter? What,

Mary 28:38
it's such a good question. Um, there's so many variables to it, you know, like real clinical depression. I think that people know, and you know, I mean, some people just think, are can can live, I guess, and function. And like, you know, with the mood shifts, and it's, it's just normal for them. And they think that that's fine, if that's how they choose or don't, whatever. I mean, that's their choice. Okay.

Scott Benner 29:19
So, so sometimes, some people have it happened to them, and they can function with it, and then it passes. And then there are some people who fall deeper into it. Or break free of it, or I'm not sure how to put it actually, I'm not. That's why I'm asking.

Mary 29:37
You know, if, if left untreated. Yeah. I mean, it could it could go both ways. I mean, it could get worse. Or it could just pass like a major depressive episode without treatment. I mean, I don't I don't know if someone really just comes right out of that, right.

Scott Benner 30:01
And so it just it just kind of snowballs at that point.

Mary 30:05
Yeah. Or it'll, you know, like less than an intensity

Scott Benner 30:09
treatment can look like talk therapy. I don't know what what else would you like? What if you thought somebody was I don't know how they rank depression, but I think I've heard the words mild depression. So if you felt like somebody had mild depression, would you? I don't know, like, where did they start?

Mary 30:31
Um, I would definitely start with talk therapy, and do like education with the patient about it. And to really get a grasp and see, I want to look at family dynamics growing up, if there's been any, like significant traumas. And traumas can be big or small. And if there is an improvement with talk therapy, I'd refer from medication for a medication evaluation. To start to feel better, I see

Scott Benner 31:09
other people who take the medication for a time and then stop, or do they? Do they often have to stay with it?

Mary 31:16
I mean, you know, there's, there was just an article that came out recently about the use of SSRIs. And how they're really not that effective. I mean, a lot of people are on them for years. And years and years and have like, you know, some people have had complete life changes, and it's been wonderful, you know, and that's good for them. Some people go on and off it really? It really depends. But overall, I would say people I mean, everyone is so different.

Scott Benner 31:53
Yeah. Well, that's true. Okay, so this is all happened to you, right? The the kids diagnosed, you've gone through what you've gone through all of a sudden your husband's type two turns out is Lada. How have you and your husband been handling it? But between the two of you is have you had problems or? Oh, god?

Mary 32:16
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I it's just, it's just sad. We are we've decided to separate you know, to, to get divorced. I'm sorry. I didn't No, no, it's okay. It's actually, you know, it's not a bad thing. You know, I guess I'm trying to, like change the script of, like, divorce being horrible and awful. We've really, like grown apart, we have very different, like, beliefs on just a lot of a lot of things, you know, there were some issues prior to diagnosis, and then diagnosis happened, and it just brought us like, further apart, you know, because we were like working on our marriage. You know, we're trying date nights, and we were in couples counseling and, and, and then once Jackson was diagnosed, like, I just struggled so much with leaving him with, like, a babysitter. In my, just, my whole focus was on him and like, learning diabetes, and making him you know, and also, like, being a certain way with him that this is a big deal, but you're still a kid, dude. So like, you're gonna eat that cake at the birthday party. And we're gonna figure it out, like, you know, a I'm not super strict with Jackson like that. And over time, obviously, I've learned, you know, better ways to manage it. And I just took it all on. And in that, Keith and I just, we just got further and further apart. It was it and

Scott Benner 34:26
tough to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. That was difficult.

Mary 34:32
Yeah, I mean, and I have another child that like, was also there. My kids are my world, you know, like I it was just all about this. We have to, like, adjust to this now. And like, I wanted everyone I wanted to, like, keep a sense of normalcy in the house. You know, we're like, it's just, you know, like with you With live like, No, it's okay. We just have to, you know, Jackson just getting his shot or like if his alarm would go off Lubich Jackson, your sugar, you know, like, and it, it's just okay. You know what I mean? Like, what am I trying to say? Like, I didn't want it to be this huge catastrophic thing that's happening in our family. I just like what we have died, like diabetes is in our family now. And like, this is how we deal with it.

Scott Benner 35:25
We're trying to downplay it. Just yeah. Yeah, just kind of minimize its impact on everybody.

Mary 35:31
And like normalize it, in a sense.

Scott Benner 35:34
Okay, so while that's all happening, and so I don't know, the I obviously don't know the elements of your marital strife prior to this. But this was not something that he could have continued to do while you were doing that thing. You guys just sort of drifted. Was he not part of the diabetes? Learning?

Mary 35:54
He was and the one of our strengths is when like, we're, there's a crisis, we work well together. You know, I'm more of like, a feelings person. And like, I just have this intuition and whatever.

Scott Benner 36:10
Mary, I lost you. I'm sorry. I lost you again, intuition. And then you be blanked out for a second.

Mary 36:17
Yeah, it's just like, you know, this intuition and whatnot. And, and he's more like, what, what are the facts? What could go wrong? You know, more from that type of standpoint. And when working together, that can really be a strength, you know, we've been able to overcome a lot of things that way. Right? Same with diabetes. By the way, I finally got him to listen to juicebox. Because I was like this, you know, I need help understanding and conceptualizing this, because it's just hard for me the way my brain works, you know, right. So two heads together, you know, we were able, like to both understand it.

Scott Benner 37:01
Gotcha. Oh, so together, you kind of pick through it and figured out the diabetes stuff. Yeah, that's right. And it helped him I would imagine, it probably helps him day to day with what he's doing now.

Mary 37:11
Yes, it does.

Scott Benner 37:15
All right. Well, I'm so sorry that that's happening for you. Do you think it's it's a it's a definite thing?

Mary 37:22
Yeah, I do. And I don't like I said it, I don't want. Keith and I, at the end of the day, we still like really like each other and we really care about, we're just like, not good. We're good together anymore. And it's not like a bad thing. I don't know how to really describe it without being like, did not like, descriptive, and I don't really want that. I was,

Scott Benner 37:52
like, as little or as much as you want. That's fine.

Mary 37:55
Yeah. I mean, it's we're just saying like, we're getting unmarried, you know, like we have we have a great relationship. We work better together like this.

Speaker 3 38:06
How do you? I'm sorry, being

Mary 38:11
rather than like, in a marriage, there's just a lot of for some reason, it just doesn't work as well as it does on a friendship level, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 38:22
Okay, yeah. How do you imagine it working going forward? Will you live nearby each other or? Yeah, yeah. Mr. The kids will go back and forth.

Mary 38:32
Yep. I'll go back and forth.

Scott Benner 38:35
Okay. I'm just trying to figure out how and so and he understands as much about the diabetes as you do, and you guys work well together with its you don't think that'll be too much trouble with your son?

Mary 38:45
I don't, although we did start the Omnipod five. And he hasn't really like dove into that yet. So, but like, I don't have any doubt that like, he'll, he'll understand it and, you know, figure it out, if not better than what I've done so far. You know, like, we're good like that. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 39:11
Excellent. All right. Well, this is a bummer. But okay, Mary.

Mary 39:17
Congratulations are in order. We're good. It's good.

Scott Benner 39:22
I'll send up I'll send a gift.

Mary 39:24
Yeah, please. I mean, like, yeah, a housewarming gift. I mean, I already bought him a housewarming gift.

Scott Benner 39:31
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. All right. Okay, so how do you find managing Jackson's diabetes? Are you having the outcomes you're looking for? Are things going the way you expect? Are you still working on it?

Mary 39:44
I mean, it's always a work in progress. He's growing like a frickin weed. So there's a lot of that school you know, a lot of adjusting during school because they won't Pre-Bolus they're not comfortable doing that. Which is fine. You know, like, they obviously have other kids, they have to, you know, manage during the day. So

Scott Benner 40:16
are they not comfortable or they are, they don't want to be stuck to the timing of it.

Mary 40:22
I think it's both. Because again, they're coming from, like, get the pre meal sugar. See what he eats and calculate after.

Scott Benner 40:35
Okay? Premiums are, oh, that's how they're doing it. He's not even, it's not like he's getting the insulin and then eating, he's eating before the insulin.

Mary 40:43
He is. But the last year he had PE before lunch. So what was happening was after PE he, I mean, he'd drop and then eat eat. So it was like a really fine line of the insulin to give because he would still be like, coming down. So I mean, it just it took a while to kind of figure out what to do. I mean, if he was at like a certain number before gym, I'd I'd give him a little bump, you know, have them like, eat a couple of skittles or have like an honest juice, which is like eight carbs or something, you know, just to bump them up, because I knew he's gonna burn it right off and hold them steady through gym.

Scott Benner 41:34
And that was working. That worked. Yeah. What are your blood sugar goals?

Mary 41:39
I mean, it worked until it didn't, right. Blood sugar goals? I mean, I have my target my range 70 to 150.

Scott Benner 41:51
Are you making that most of the time?

Mary 41:57
On the on the five, I'm hitting it way better? On the dash? I mean, much. Not as much.

Scott Benner 42:12
Do you have stability? Or is there a lot of up and down?

Mary 42:17
You know, Scott, it really varies. There, I mean, there's some days, even weeks that he's super steady and great. And then there's other times where I mean, we're just on this roller coaster.

Scott Benner 42:33
And do you Pre-Bolus At home for meals. Yeah. And you see a better outcome then. Yeah, that's cool. Okay. I wonder if he has a lot of activity at school. That isn't helping him a little bit with the not Pre-Bolus thing.

Mary 42:50
Yeah, I mean, he is you know, he is very active. Because I mean, mac and cheese will you know, he eats with eats mac and cheese. Now, I don't even Pre-Bolus for mac and cheese. He could eat a huge bowl, and his sugar doesn't move until like an hour later.

Scott Benner 43:11
Right. But when it starts to digest, yeah, that he has it. I'm just I'm just I'm wondering how I mean what what a spikes look like at school when they're like literally bolusing after meals. To me that seems like a 250 blood sugar not Bolus until after a meal.

Mary 43:30
Oh, yeah. I mean, he or higher.

Scott Benner 43:33
Is there no way to get them to Bolus for half of it before he eats and then reassess? Well,

Mary 43:41
that's a good point.

Scott Benner 43:42
I mean, there's got to be a way to do that. But at least it's not. I mean, them saying we're not comfortable with it. It seems sort of like bold to me. Like Like, you're gonna drive the kids blood sugar up every day. And then we're just gonna manage it down again. Like every day.

Mary 43:58
Yeah. And some days he'll he would tank

Scott Benner 44:01
after they corrected. Yeah, yeah. Geez, that sucks. All right, you're using using the CGM? Yeah. And so you're able to see it during the day. So Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I would. I don't know. I'm not telling you. I really pressure them to do it differently. I would just say, look, you're you're creating an unhealthy situation for my son every day by doing it like this. So I mean, even he's on a I mean, he's on an algorithm now. Like you're you're also screwing with the algorithm like it because you're putting in food and not telling the algorithm that the foods there so it doesn't know what the thing because it just thinks that his blood sugar shoots up randomly and then wait, and then are they Oh, wait a minute, so your Bolus not bolusing. When he eats, he's going up 202 50 And then they're putting in the carbs. Yeah, that's why he's gonna get low later. Because the the algorithm thinks the carbs went in when you told it not an hour or 45 minutes prior. So, yeah. So it's both. So the algorithms going after the rise. Do you see what I'm saying? Like it sees, it sees a rise happened, he doesn't know why, because you haven't told it, there's carbs there. So it starts to jack up and push at the rise, trying to stop it thinking at first, though, it's just a small bump, I'm gonna come after it. And then as the rise gets more aggressive than the algorithm gets more aggressive, and now it's been aggressive for the entire time he's eating, and then you tell it, he's got carbs now. So you have insulin on board that it believes is for a rise that has nothing to do with carbs, and then it attacks the carbs that you put in. And that's why you're getting the low later. You have to tell it when you eat what you're eating.

Mary 45:56
Yeah, well, this was last year on the dash.

Scott Benner 46:00
So he was having an algorithm bumped from from that at least, okay, no, he was

Mary 46:05
on the dash. So the insulin would go in, like, as he was spiking up from lunch, and then we'd have to wait an hour. Before started coming down.

Scott Benner 46:19
Yeah, well,

Mary 46:21
you're coming up, right. He's, he's on the algorithm now. So this, you're coming up, like, you know, we have a meeting with the nurses. When I get back from Connecticut, and I have to figure out like, how, because we have to do it differently.

Scott Benner 46:37
Yeah, you have to impress upon them that this is not how this works. And because it will, it will confuse the hell out of the algorithm. If you Bolus 45 minutes after he eats and tell it that's when the food's going in. That'll really be a mess. Honestly.

Mary 46:53
Yeah. I mean, so what is it? So is it just the Pre-Bolus? Then, like, night before he eats, someone's gonna have to go to him or they were just walking him to the nurse last year? How

Scott Benner 47:05
old? Is he? Seven, eight. Do you think you guys can do it through text? Like you and hey,

Mary 47:15
maybe we we've been working on that. He just doesn't always remember to check his phone.

Scott Benner 47:22
Yeah, oh, no, you probably would have to text him. But, but I'm saying like, if you had a certain time of day, even if a timer went off on his phone, he was like, Okay, it's time to text my mom, I text her. Hey, we're getting ready to go to lunch. And you say, that's fine. You look at his blood sugar and tell him the Bolus a certain amount and he walks right to lunch with everybody else and starts to eat. Yeah, you know, that's how Arden did it forever. She would Bolus in the classroom before lunch. She would. Yeah. And we would do it by text. She never saw the nurse.

Mary 47:56
Yeah, I mean, it's such a disruption for him. How old was she when she started texting with

Unknown Speaker 48:03
you? Third grade.

Mary 48:06
Third grade, he's going into second but it's same age.

Scott Benner 48:10
Okay. Oh, he's older than I thought for that. Or am I? Yeah, we

Mary 48:13
he stayed. He was held back a year. And his younger, the younger grades. So

Scott Benner 48:18
I mean, if it's something I mean, all of the grade matters. I we started doing it when I thought of it. You know, like I didn't, I didn't have a podcast to listen to. So like I had to figure it out first. So I figured out what to do. When I figured it out. I figured out in the summertime between second and third grade. And so we put it into practice. Starting in third grade. Arden hasn't been to the nurse for a diabetes thing since the last day of second grade. Yeah, yeah. So but we did all through texting. But I don't know how I don't I don't see why this. I don't see why this wouldn't be okay.

Mary 48:52
Yeah, no, I mean, I guess. I like the idea of setting an alarm for him, because then he will. That's a good intervention for him to like a reminder. Yeah,

Scott Benner 49:05
that's what I did. I just, there was an alarm on her phone that it went off. It would be it would go off. She text me and say hey, what's up and then we would do lunch? Back then. Dexcom did not choose Hold on. When was that? 2000? I don't remember. There might not have been a Dexcom. Back then. Sorry. Is there a fire in the hotel? No. I'm not even sure if we had a Dexcom in the very beginning. So she would probably she would test her blood sugar. Tell me what her blood sugar was then we would Bolus and then in ensuing years, she told me what the CGM said because I couldn't see it. There was no share. And then And then, you know, as the technology improved and sharing came into, into being

Mary 49:55
did they Alright, so that they didn't have Have sharing back. Follow Jackson's number. Yeah, for

Scott Benner 50:06
years. We didn't have that. You know what that beeping is?

Unknown Speaker 50:11
Do you hear that? What the loud Bell?

Mary 50:16
Yeah, it's my text. It's my work texting.

Scott Benner 50:20
can you mute it? It's overwhelming you and you're talking. That's all.

Mary 50:26
Yeah, it should stop now.

Scott Benner 50:27
Okay, that's fine.

Mary 50:31
I'm so sorry Scott.

Scott Benner 50:48
Later when I'm editing this, I'm going to count the bells. And that's going to be the name of the episode like six bells or several miles or something like that.

Mary 50:57
Yeah, well, so I'm on this work text. And it's like 18 people are on the tags. And we have like the drug reps that come in every day, almost every day and bring lunch. So it's like lunchtime. And they're like, well, who's bringing in lunch today? What restaurant? Is it from?

Scott Benner 51:12
Goodness. Okay, yeah, no, so I'm sorry to go back. Yeah, the Dexcom share didn't always exist. So Sharon follow didn't always exist. There was a time where Arden had a Dexcom. And she's the only one that could see it. She had a receiver. It wasn't on her phone. And she used to wear it in this little pack around her waist. And it would, you know, she gets your blood sugar on it. And then she texts me and tell me what it was. And then we would do that. Prior to that she tested her blood sugar. She texts me the number and then we would Bolus off of that. So

Mary 51:45
yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna work on that with Jackson. I think that hill, I think he's totally capable of doing it. Practice. Extra reminder. Yeah, you can

Scott Benner 51:56
just practice at home, right? You can. You can just do meals from the other room say, Look, we're going to we're gonna Bolus your meal today. But we're going to do it over tax instead of standing next to each other. We're practicing for school. And yeah, you know, it's a viable way. And then you're there. Once you're done, you can go check and make sure everything happened the way you expect it. But if you're using Dexcom, and you can see his number on your phone, then you can you know, that that's a step. You don't have to worry about him getting the number wrong, because you can play it too. So I don't know, I would try something. I don't know. I just I'm not comfortable. It's not my kid and I'm not comfortable with what you told me. It makes me upset farm. So

Mary 52:34
yeah, I mean, it was the show last year with like, the ups and downs and the lows. And I mean, we never knew what we were gonna get every day. It's just

Scott Benner 52:43
it's not fair to him, either. He feels terrible. And you know, it's all over the place. So plus you don't he's not getting to be who he is. Because he's having these. You know, these bouncing around blood sugars are affecting, you know, his, his temperament. I would imagine everything else. Yeah. Are they back? Yeah, they're back. Okay. Well, we can wrap up if they're back. Is there anything that we didn't talk about? That you want?

Unknown Speaker 53:09
Jackson comes through. Hi.

Scott Benner 53:10
Hi. Hey, can you hear me? Yeah. Hey, Jackson. What's up, man? How was how was wiffleball? Good. Yeah. Excellent. Are you how loose? How long have you had the only about five months or so? Yeah. About a month. Are you liking it? Yes. Cool. That's very cool. I was talking to your mom about ways that you might be able to, to use it at school this year. So hopefully, it's something that'll work out for you. Yeah, yeah. How's your vacation? Going? Seeing your grandparents? Yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's very nice. And your uncle's there too? Yeah. Well, it was nice to meet you, Jackson. Thank you. Yeah.

Mary 53:55
Yeah, I was telling him about your whole story, buddy.

Scott Benner 54:01
I know most of it now.

Unknown Speaker 54:04
Do you say yeah, yeah. All right. Well,

Mary 54:08
we switch Minecraft.

Scott Benner 54:10
Minecraft. Oh, we like Yeah. That's a it's interesting because the way you described him Minecraft fits a little bit. Yeah, everything is square see? Yeah, he likes that. Yeah, it's interesting. It really is. Cool. All right. Well, Mary this will be too much noise for a podcast so let's say goodbye. But But I really appreciate you doing this. I thought it was terrific. And you obviously shared a lot of stuff and with everybody which will help everybody and I know

Mary 54:42
I'm so I feel like it was horrible. And like I was all over the place and I'm sorry how you feel? Yeah, I do. I do. I don't know why. I

Scott Benner 54:52
I don't questions. I don't think you were all over the place.

Mary 54:57
I don't know. I just I just feel like it. wasn't my best.

Unknown Speaker 55:03
I don't know. It's gonna sound so weird. But anyway,

Scott Benner 55:06
all right, well, Mary, that maybe I'll just name the episode something like bum Fuzzles or something like that. And I don't know too much noise. Yeah, they don't come out for like six months. So I'll go back and edit it and I'll figure out what's there. And that's how we'll go. All right. All right. I really do appreciate you taking time out Eva vacation. It was really nice.

Mary 55:27
Yeah, of course.

Unknown Speaker 55:28
Thank you so much. The best of luck to you. Thanks so much. Bye

Scott Benner 55:38
a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I'd also like to thank Omni pod they are a longtime sponsors of the podcast, I can't thank them enough for being with me since the very first year 2015 I just want to remind you to go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox to support them as they support the podcast. And I mean, all that means is if you're looking for an omni pod fiber and on the pod dash, use my link as promised, I will put the very noisy couple of minutes that Mary and I spent as I think she was in her car at the end here if you want to hear it it's kind of funny. What else thanks for listening I appreciate that very much. Please tell other people if you liked the podcast and think they would like it as well. And don't forget to find the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes terrific group coming up on 40,000 members absolutely a great place to find your community

Unknown Speaker 57:02
Okay, how's that

Scott Benner 57:04
all I'm not sure if it's there's still a noise I'm trying to figure out if it's the air conditioner winding down or if it's just something different

Mary 57:17
I can always go to another spot

Scott Benner 57:21
I don't know is there noise outside of the car

Mary 57:25
not really mean there's like cars going by but it's not oh

Scott Benner 57:29
no this is pretty consistent I wish you could hear this but you can't Yeah, I don't know what to say that it is the first day

Mary 57:44
I can just kick my kids out oh that is

Scott Benner 57:49
I'm sorry Don't be sorry you're fine

yeah Mary it was the traffic Believe it or not okay because once you once you get out of the park

Mary 58:08
can you guys go play some wiffle ball? I can't there's like a bad background noise out there they

Scott Benner 58:17
did you get to them so quickly

Mary 58:24
No, not yet. We'll go play some wiffle ball with Uncle net Thanks

the bats next to the bed over there

Scott Benner 58:47
has got a problem I'm waiting to see what happens when you close the door yeah

Unknown Speaker 59:07
yeah thank you

Scott Benner 59:22
okay, is how's that? Terrible. No, I just wish you could have heard it. It was just so funny. Like it literally just sounded like jet planes were flying past you. That was the cars I assume. Yeah. Because once you opened the door to the, to the car to your car, I could tell that your car was keeping out a lot of the noise but just not enough of it. So

Mary 59:49
yeah, I have a pretty loud, loud car.

Scott Benner 59:54
It's one of those cars you get up on the highway and you're like, I'm just gonna turn the radio up and we'll all talk when we get there. Yeah, totally

Mary 1:00:00
or like, Get out of my way to

Scott Benner 1:00:05
this sounds good. Thank you. Okay, good. I appreciate it. Sorry about that. Although your kids sound young enough that you were able to relocate them without any argument. They were just like, we're going outside now. Okay.

Mary 1:00:18
Dude, I know I've had like a Plan B because I was like, I'm gonna, like do this in my car. And my brother's here, watching them and I'm like, I like the wiffle ball bat and the ball ready. And I was like, you know, there's a lawn right up there. You guys can just go and

Scott Benner 1:00:32
well, that's, well, it's very so you're on vacation.

Mary 1:00:35
Yeah, I'm originally from Connecticut. Like, I grew up in Trumbull, Connecticut. And my parents are still here. And one of my brothers is still here. So every summer I put, you know, put my two kids in the car and we drive up and spend about a week or two up here and get away from that Savannah summer heat. I

Scott Benner 1:00:58
was gonna say to escape the heat in Georgia, right?

Mary 1:01:02
Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, in the winter up here, you're, you're like, you know, you get a blizzard or you can't it's just so cold. You can't go out well in the summer and Savannah, it's just so hot, you know?

Scott Benner 1:01:15
Well, I'm looking at our calendar right now. I call this my sadness countdown. And Arden is leaving for Savannah on the sixth. So yeah, 12344 and a half weeks from now isn't going to be super hot still by then. It is

#891 After Dark: Survivors Guilt

Ashton has type 1 diabetes and she feels that drug use in her extended family is impacting her health.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 891 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is interesting. It begins with Ashton, who is the type one experiencing a low blood sugar. So we sort of just chit chat through her Lo, until the show kind of starts off properly. It takes us a little bit of time to get to why she's here today. But once we get to it, my goodness, what a story. Today's guest is here because she believes that people in her extended family, their troubles and turmoil are causing her problems with her blood sugar. I don't want to ruin the surprise but very specifically, there seems to be a lot of drinking and drug use in her extended family. And anyway, I think we get to something after a while, which is why the title is after dark survivor's guilt and not after dark cocaine use. So you really got to listen to this will unfold. It's something else. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by Dexcom. Now Dexcom makes the G six and G seven brand new G seven continuous glucose monitoring system. Arden has tried the g7 we've ordered it and it's arrived waiting for her in a little box right there at college for her to use up her last two g SIX sensors before she switches over and she's very excited. Dex comm.com forward slash juice box check them out at my link when you do you're supporting the podcast

Ashton 2:16
blade right now but

Scott Benner 2:18
you're fine. Do you want me to? I can stop the recording till you feel better if you like.

Ashton 2:23
Oh no, I'll be okay. Okay. I just I just started to go down. So

Scott Benner 2:27
okay, where do you? Where did you where do you do? Well, I guess do you have a CGM? How did you know you're getting low?

Ashton 2:36
I have the FreeStyle Libre too.

Scott Benner 2:38
Okay, so did you scan it before you started here? Or did you feel though,

Ashton 2:43
I started to feel low, and I scanned it and I was 4.2 going straight down. So

Scott Benner 2:50
Gotcha. Where do you start to feel your lows?

Ashton 2:54
I actually start to feel them around four and a half. Like 4.5.

Scott Benner 3:00
I'm gonna just realize and I should probably translate those.

Ashton 3:06
Oh, yeah. Sorry. I mean, Canada.

Scott Benner 3:09
No, no, it's fine. So 4.5 isn't at one. And you feel low there where you are. Do you think yeah, what do you think you were dropping.

Ashton 3:18
I'm dropping pretty good. I didn't eat very much for breakfast as like that I thought I was going to eat. And my daughter had to go outside and play for a little bit first. So we went outside. And of course, I wasn't even thinking and didn't have enough food for breakfast. And then we went outside and played and I came in and I was like, whoa.

Scott Benner 3:45
It's happening faster than I thought it was. Right. So well. Yeah. Well, we'll we'll just take we're not going to start until you're feeling better. So you think you had your Bolus for a meal? Didn't need as much as you thought and then had activity that you weren't counting on?

Ashton 4:01
Yeah, that's exactly it. Is my daughter she she's one or she's 19 months now. So she'll bring us first thing in the morning every morning she brings me or her dad her shoes and outside.

Scott Benner 4:19
Oh, that's good. But now if would you how long ago did you drink this juice?

Ashton 4:26
I just finished it. So can you

Scott Benner 4:28
play a game and scan again and tell me where you're at? Yeah.

Ashton 4:41
Oh, of course my reading is right. I'm using my phone right now. My reading of course is rate in the way of Okay. I'm coming up on 4.5 Now,

Scott Benner 4:55
now. Do you feel low still?

Ashton 5:00
Yes, I still feel pretty low.

Scott Benner 5:03
What are your average blood sugar's during the day?

Ashton 5:08
Oh, gosh, I had them really good until I had my daughter. And since then it has been a complete roller coaster.

Scott Benner 5:17
It's bouncing up and down. Yeah. Do you? Do these lows feel different than they did when you were pregnant?

Ashton 5:25
Yes, definitely. When I was pregnant, I actually didn't feel the lows quite so severely.

Scott Benner 5:34
Is that because you're bouncing around as much do you think?

Ashton 5:37
I think so. I pregnancy was lovely. I hardly felt like I was diabetic because I didn't like I was level pretty much the whole way until near the end, then my insulin needs shot right up. Okay. But yeah, they're pretty steady throughout pregnancy. And before for a couple years before pregnancy, my a one C was 6.5. So around 6.5, it didn't get any higher than 6.8.

Scott Benner 6:14
How do you come up? How do you come to that number? Is it? Do you have a like? I guess my question is, do you have a lot of stability around 120? Oh, geez. Around

Ashton 6:27
20 is, I think eight

Scott Benner 6:31
is so so 120 is like Oh 6.7 6.7 for you? It's an A one? Yeah, then that'd be an A one save about 5.8. So let's go to like 145, which would be about a six, seven or an 8.1 is do you have a ton of stability there or are you high and then low and high and then low all day.

Ashton 6:51
I'm right now high and low, all day. And before pregnant, before being pregnant, I was steady. Like, I wouldn't, you know, shoot up a little bit, but I could get it back down and stabilize it. And I would only I don't know, once twice a week is where I would shoot up and but it always came down nice and easy. But it seems like with all the stress going on and everything, I shoot straight up, I take a little bit of insulin. And then you know something happens with my daughter or you know, I just get busy with life and I don't eat or I'll forget to take insulin or I'm just kind of riding the roller coaster. I've been talking with my endocrinologist and my diabetic educator lately. And we're trying to make a plan like my educator told me like, Well, why don't you wear a fanny pack and have your insulin on you all the time? And I've been trying that, but I'm still having complete highs and lows lately.

Scott Benner 8:13
So do you use are you injecting your insulin or do you have a pump?

Ashton 8:17
I inject right now. I've always been MD mi MDI, sorry, no, you're fine. I, I've been diabetic for 17 years. Okay. Almost 18 And I've been MD MDI the whole time. How old are you? I am 27. I'll be 28. January,

Scott Benner 8:38
you were like around nine years old and you're diagnosed.

Ashton 8:41
I was it was actually a month after my 10th birthday birthday that I was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 8:51
Who is kind of interesting. This isn't even what we're talking about. And I'm just trying to chat with you until your until you feel like you're nice and stable. Yeah. So there's a disconnect between having the insulin with you when you need it. And and that causes some of the highs that then maybe later cause lows?

Ashton 9:16
Yeah, I'm thinking so like getting my daughter ready to eat her supper. And then I'll sit down, eat supper and I'm like, Whoa, what am I doing? I need to go take insulin. And so my timing of my insulin is way off right now.

Scott Benner 9:33
And that's where the bouncing around is coming from.

Ashton 9:36
I think so. Okay. All right. Well,

Scott Benner 9:41
that's it I mean, at least you know, what's happening and then I guess it's about correcting the

Ashton 9:46
Yeah, it's kind of a me problem at this point.

Scott Benner 9:51
It's gonna say Right, like, yeah, like starting a new habit or so. So what happened when you were pregnant? You just didn't have a lot of insulin need or you were just very focused on it.

Ashton 10:01
Um, well, I was very focused on it. But I honestly didn't have a lot of insulin needs until my third trimester. I like I could take two units for a plate of spaghetti in the beginning of my pregnancy. And that's actually how I found out I was pregnant was I could not keep my blood sugar's up.

Scott Benner 10:25
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So you didn't need to spend the money on the pregnancy test. And that's great.

Ashton 10:34
No, my endocrinologist. We were trying to figure out why kept going into these lows, and she was going to do adrenal testing on me. She was thinking maybe I had adrenal insufficiency or something. And then she called me the one day she's like, I never thought could you possibly be pregnant? And I thought about it. And I was like, You know what? I could probably be. Yeah. So we found out when I was eight weeks pregnant that

Scott Benner 11:05
Oh, no kidding. First, baby. Yes. Yeah. First one. Congratulations.

Ashton 11:11
We weren't planning but we weren't preventing either.

Scott Benner 11:17
Yeah, that's so that's about how that goes. I think a lot of the times, yeah. Just tell me if you feel okay. And we'll start. Although I'm feeling a lot better now. Better. Are you okay, for keeping this bit of the conversation in the final show? Word would you prefer? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Oh, cool. All right. Well, in. I mean, I feel like people know you a little bit. But go ahead, introduce yourself very quickly. Usually, I would tell you before we start recording, you don't need to use your last name. And, you know, just in you already told him told us a lot about yourself. So I guess just tell me your name, and then we'll keep talking.

Ashton 11:52
Okay, if my name is Ashton, I'm from Northwest Alberta, Canada. Um

Scott Benner 12:03
it's it Northwest. Yeah. Do you already said how long you've had diabetes and when you were diagnosed and everything so Alberta?

Ashton 12:08
Yeah. I guess I could add that my dad is a diabetic type one diabetic as well. He was diagnosed. seven years, eight years before me. Oh, no kidding. So yeah, I was three when he was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 12:26
Do you know about how old he was at that time?

Ashton 12:28
Oh, he would have been it was. It was actually on my parents wedding night. That from all the cake and booze and whatever. He got really sick and had to go into the hospital that night. I'm gonna say he was around 2728.

Scott Benner 12:47
No kidding. And is there any other like type one or autoimmune stuff in your family line?

Ashton 12:55
No. Well, my grandma on my dad, like my dad's mother and her mother. So my great grandma. They both had thyroid issues a little bit like, I don't that they never really told me. But what was that? But yeah, they had some thyroid issues.

Scott Benner 13:16
Okay, so then Yeah, so there's something going on. But you're so do you have you ever heard the story from your father like in hindsight that he think it was Did he can he see that it was coming on and he just that Oh,

Ashton 13:30
my dad thinks he was diabetic from the time he was a young child, because he would get this He told me he'd get this awful feeling and he would just need to run around and you know, burn off what he figures with burn off the shoulder. And he was always sick. My grandma was constantly taking him to the hospital. Even couple years before he would get so sick, he couldn't move, hardly go to the hospital. Nothing nothing. And I don't remember Oh, I guess it was just because he was the doctor figures because he would go home after work and he always would drink rum and coke. And the doctor figures that rum and coke kinda would balance them out at the end of the day.

Scott Benner 14:30
I don't know I should if rum and coke fix type one diabetes and don't you think no.

Ashton 14:36
Like for the months up leading up to his diagnosis getting? Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:43
I mean, that's strange. I mean, listen, I I'm not a doctor, but you can't stay alive for 20 Some years with type one diabetes without insulin. So maybe he was like, I mean, something sounds like it was definitely happening with his health for sure. And

Ashton 14:57
yeah, he he doesn't think die. Diabetes unnecessarily, but he thinks there was some autoimmune trigger that happened when he was younger and it just kind of snowballed.

Scott Benner 15:11
I guess that's interesting. I mean, it's, it's I mean, it's, it's odd. And it's interesting for sure. Okay, so tell me a little bit about why you wanted to come on the show.

Ashton 15:22
Okay, I wanted to come on, because I have some family members then that are addicted to cocaine. I'm so growing up my family, it like we're all really close. My dad, his brother's two sons are my two cousins were the only three kids on that side of the family. So we were always really close. My mom watched my two cousins all the time. And they were more like my brothers. And one of them got addicted to cocaine at 16 years old, I believe. So how long ago was that? That would have been about 15 years ago, okay. And so we struggled with him. And my dad's cousin, he's closer to me and my cousin, sage, the one who was addicted to cocaine. And he was also addicted. So I had two cousins that are addicted. So we were dealing with that. constantly worried about them. And now my we're not married, but I call my husband, his brother, who I've known for 20 years close or close to it. Has, he is addicted to cocaine as well. And it's just we find it pretty hard. Dealing with it because it's like my brother, and then my brother in law being addicted to

Scott Benner 17:11
a lot of people that you care about.

Ashton 17:13
Yeah. And now that we have our daughter, I have no siblings. And so and his little brother are my two siblings, basically. And then Tom, only my, my husband, Tom only has his brothers.

Scott Benner 17:35
Ashley, let me say something before we keep going. You probably shouldn't say other people's names. Oh, sorry. Don't worry about it. Don't I'm just so I'm gonna go back later. And I'll remove. But like, Okay, moving forward. My cousin. Yeah, my brother and my. Yeah. Sorry, no, no, don't be.

Ashton 17:58
So now with our daughter having our daughter here. We wanted them to have we wanted her to have her uncles. And we were all we're both my husband and my families were all really tight knit families. So it meant a lot of a lot to us that our daughter was going to have her uncles. And they just really haven't been a big part of her life or anything. But relating that to the diabetes. So we say get a call from my brother in law. And he's find some reason to get mad at you. And then he will not leave you alone. And he'll just go on and on and take deep digs at you and it shoots my blood sugar rate up. As soon as I see that he called me or texted me and he wasn't in a good my mindset. And my blood sugar would still shoot straight up. And I think that's half of my roller coaster too, is I get a message from my cousin or my brother in law. And I know that they're in a bad way. My blood sugar shoots straight up. So I take insulin to try and bring it down and everything but it just I'll come down and then he'll say something that'll piss me off and I'll shoot right back up.

Scott Benner 19:42
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is it a mixture of anger and sadness? And adrenaline? Or?

Ashton 22:47
I think it's anger? I think yes, I think it's all three of those things. Because I don't know I get so worked up, I will start just shaking and like ready to punch a wall? Almost.

Scott Benner 23:02
Tell me Tell me. I mean, what what is it about? I mean, obviously, let me start my thought over. Obviously that's upsetting, right? Like your loved ones that are struggling with something, it's upsetting. But they're not you and they're not your they're not your husband, and they're not your kid. So when I want to understand, like, what happens when you are kind of faced with their problem? Is it like what happens inside of you that you care so much that it's affecting you like that?

Ashton 23:36
I don't know. I think it's just the fact that I grew up with them all. And I know, I know them as people, the people, they are not the addict. I know who they can be without the addiction. And I think that is part of what works me up and the fact that I can't do anything.

Scott Benner 24:02
Okay. So a feeling of helplessness and and then that feeling that that they're wasting their life for and then you feel badly about that. I imagine.

Ashton 24:16
Yeah, well, and another reason I feel so badly about it is because when I was in end of high school there, I was about 17 The first time I tried cocaine and I had done it on and off for four or five years. And I never really got the addiction to it. I mean I I would go out and do it for fun and whatever. But I could go months without doing it. And then they do it a couple times and they get addicted. And I'm also very upset with myself. You Because I remember both of them would say, don't tell my girlfriend you saw me today. Don't tell me don't tell them I was here. Don't tell them this. And I just kept my mouth shut because they, the girlfriends didn't ask me anything. So I just kept my mouth shut and kind of almost protected them. And now, yes, it really bothers me now that I, I feel like for 10 years, I basically lied for them.

Scott Benner 25:39
I see. And now and now their situation is so bad off that you almost feel like you're a party to it.

Ashton 25:48
Yes. And I mean, I'm not in my auntie and uncle situation, or my father in law's situation, or I'm not the like, I'm not my husband situation where it's his brother. Or, and, or sorry, my cousin is like my brother. So that really gets to me. And then my cousin's little brother has also started.

Scott Benner 26:22
What is going on in Alberta? When they say it's not when they're saying when they say it's snowing there? I thought they meant like, you know, both both. Yeah, goodness. So tell me a little bit about everybody's background, like just generally speaking, is it? Is this a? Does it start as a party thing? Does it go from drinking to cocaine? And then some? Yeah,

Ashton 26:53
I would say I would say it's a party thing. But my cousin, so in my family, there is addictions all over the place, mostly alcohol. But there's cigarettes and drugs. And sorry, my cousin had a learning disability. Okay. And his dad was pretty hard on him growing up. So I don't know if that was his way of get escaping from his father and how hard his dad was on him growing up. Because that's the other thing. My dad and my uncle lost their brother, when my cousin who is addicted to drugs has when he was born. My father and uncle lost their brother due to I don't know the story. But I hear he was murdered by bad people.

Scott Benner 28:10
Do you think that was drug related as well?

Ashton 28:13
See, I don't know. Because from what my dad has told me, my uncle was a thief. He just stole stuff just because he got off on it. Okay. And so it's hard to say if it was he stole from the wrong person, or it was drug related, or they don't really talk about it. I think it hurts them quite a bit to talk about it. And we, me and my cousins, we do ask once in a while, but we don't cry about it.

Scott Benner 28:50
So is this? Well, is it systemic through your family? Is it systemic through the area? Like we, like we have conversations like this, there's obviously other other afterdark episodes, people come out and talk about, you know, heroin, and they're like, oh, where I live? It's everywhere. Like they talk about that. And so, I mean, it's like, I guess where do I start? Like these people you're talking about? Do they work?

Ashton 29:15
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, everyone goes to work. And my cousin, he, our, he just went back to work. He's actually been sober for two and a half, three months now. So he just went back to work, but he got to the point where he had lost his job and was sitting at home for months and got depressed and he is best friends with my brother in law, too. And my brother in law got really bad. He would do the drugs and hallucinate and telling us his girlfriend was fake. And I don't know what how happened. I haven't had a chance to talk to either of them about it. But something happened where my brother in law had to freak out. And that's what caused my cousin to start. Decide he needed to get sober.

Scott Benner 30:18
So something happened so crazy that one of them was like, I'm done with this. Yeah.

Ashton 30:25
And my husband and brother in law, they lost their mother when they were 10 and 12. Okay. So I don't know if that's where my brother in law's problems stem from? I think he didn't deal with it the same way my husband did. Okay, and is there

Scott Benner 30:50
a lot of poverty? or No? Where do you? How do you think of how do you think of these people? Do you think of them is? Middle class do you think of them is, you know, middle class, middle middle class people who are making a reasonable living like, do they own a home? As an example? Yeah.

Ashton 31:09
My brother in law, he owns a home in the so we live out in the country. He owns a home in the town close to us. But he was lately he's been struggling with bills and everything. So he actually got the opportunity to rent his house out. And he moved back out here with his dad. My father in law

Scott Benner 31:36
is pardon. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.

Ashton 31:41
Oh, I was just gonna say, I think like we everyone makes decent money like yes, hard times right now. But everyone has enough to live and it just goes around our area. It's just stupid. Like, I could walk down the street, and probably point out seven people who I've seen dude, cocaine.

Scott Benner 32:06
If Ashley, if I looked at them, would I know? Like just looking? Could I make a snap judgment? Or? Or is it kind of hidden?

Ashton 32:15
I'm with my cousin. It is hidden. With my brother in law. It's fairly hidden. But you can tell when he's been, you know, he went and partied all night last night. By looking at him. You could just tell his eyes are just huge, but droopy. And his face just will look gray and just basically like deaths,

Scott Benner 32:45
okay. I don't want to know where they work. But what kind of worked the people in your area? Like what kind of work is done in that area? I guess. A lot of oil

Ashton 32:57
field. Okay. Like my husband? Is it Equipment Operator building the leases and whatnot. My brother in law's an equipment operator. My cousin is an equipment operator. Mostly working in oil field, but they do some for farmers and stuff and they do reclamation where they put everything back to the way it was before they started working there.

Scott Benner 33:31
Okay. Hard work. Long hours outdoors, that kind of stuff.

Ashton 33:36
Yeah. I would say 14 hour days minimum. Okay. No, most days, not every day. But most

Scott Benner 33:44
days. It's the kind of job where back in the day, decades ago, it was like go to work. Then we go to the bar kind of thing. Yes. Okay. And now we're going to the bar we're drinking but we're also doing coke. Yeah. Okay. And, and so tell me if you don't mind. You said you did it as well, when you were younger. So yep. Tell me the attraction for you back then.

Ashton 34:15
Honestly, for me, it was just the fact that, you know, once I was feeling drunk, I could do a bomb. And I would have my together again, wouldn't feel so drunk that I needed to go to sleep.

Scott Benner 34:36
So that you keep drinking.

Ashton 34:38
Yeah, basically. Okay.

Scott Benner 34:41
Do you consider yourself an alcoholic?

Ashton 34:44
Um, I used to when I was, you know, from the time I was 18 till I was 21 I would say probably three or four times a week I would Have a drink?

Scott Benner 35:01
Blackout drinking or just

Ashton 35:03
No, no, no, I I've actually only been blackout drunk once in my life. And never again.

Scott Benner 35:10
What what do you think at that early age? I mean, listen, this isn't like, you're obviously not the first teenager to drink, right? But yeah, what do you think how

Ashton 35:19
and where I am? 18 is the legal age. Okay,

Scott Benner 35:23
but what? What drives you to it? Is it boredom? Is it fitting in? Is it about, like, a loosening of your attitude? Like, do you know? Can you even know even looking back?

Ashton 35:37
I would say, um, you know, socially. As kids, we'd all oh, let's go out to the bush and start a fire and have some drinks. And boredom. Like you say boredom Thurs? We're in northern Alberta. Like, of course we can do. There's tons of things to do. But everything seems to cost so much. So to to us as kids going and buying, you know, a case of beer and going out and having a fire with all your friends in the bush was it was just, it's a thing that has, like, my parents did it as kids. It's just

Scott Benner 36:23
stuffed holidays around here. Yeah, like local tradition. Almost. Yeah. Yeah. And it builds on itself, then, like, yeah, meaning that, um, meaning that like you, your family does it, and then somebody brings it up, and then happens again, and then your kids do it. And it doesn't seem that wrong to your parents, because they did it. Because even when you're talking about your I don't know if you know this, but it's interesting. You're incredibly upset about what's happened to the people in your life. And you also feel a little responsible. And at the same time, when you speak about it, like the act of using or drinking or anything. There's no contempt in your voice at all. Like you. I think that there's it sounds to me, like, there was there's a wish that, like, Wouldn't it be great if there was a way that we could drink and do some coke, but it wouldn't ruin anybody's life? Am I wrong? Or do I have that?

Ashton 37:25
Well, not the coke part. But I wish. I don't know, I'm not much of a drinker anymore. Okay, since I since I have my daughter, I think I've probably had 10 drinks in total in 19 months. And so I don't, I'm really scared to be hung over with a toddler too. So that's part of the reason, but I just, I don't know, I wish because I know a lot of people who they can't just go sit down at supper and have one drink. Okay, it's, it's you got it. They'll they have they drink to get drunk, they get drunk, they drink to get wasted, basically. And there's so many people around my area that are like that. And I wish it was different. I wish we could go sit down for supper and just, you know, have one drink with our friends and go home. But usually that ends up you know, you have two or three you're feeling good at supper. Well, let's go find something to do afterwards. And I just I guess I wish the people around me could understand that a sober life has been so much more rewarding. Yeah, and easy. I, my brother in law and my cousin, I can't imagine waking up every morning feeling that complete regret. And just feeling disgusting every day. But then doing it again. Yeah, and doing it again. And again.

Scott Benner 39:15
Because that's what you know. Exactly. Right. And see, it's interesting to me. Like when you say like, well, it fills the time or people drink to access or whatever. And this is just what we do. Like, while you're saying that well, and it wouldn't matter if it was you. If anybody said that. I start thinking of all of the other things that I enjoy doing, or the things that I wish I had time to do that I don't even have time to do. And it would never like in a million years it wouldn't occur to me to drink and get drunk. So that I couldn't exist. Like um, but but that's me, right so for other people, it's it's completely opposite. And and you do wonder How many little things stack up before you don't have a chance to have bigger dreams or other ideas? Like what, you know, your parents are hard on you, you live in a depressed area, you know, you're growing up to work in an oil field, like like that kind of like not that there's anything wrong with working in an oil field, but there doesn't feel like there's any other possibility. You're not like, well, I might I've, maybe I'll work in this oil field if I want to, or maybe I'll do these things. And it's just this feeling of like, This is it. Like, I'm here to do this drink. I'll make a baby, that baby will grow up work in this oilfield drink and like, this is what we do. It's not true, by the way. But no, yeah. You feel though, you know?

Ashton 40:46
Yeah. And I don't like for my brother in law. He lost his mom at a very young age. And his aunties, and everyone stepped up. But he's never really had that person to go to to talk about things like, am I stuck in the oil field?

Scott Benner 41:12
Well, that's even if you had somebody to talk to. They're so isolated in this bubble, that, like, you ever heard the saying that, like, you don't know if it's a saying or not, but you can't imagine things you don't know about? Yes. Right. So somebody has to be there. There has to be some example for you to say, Oh, well, I guess I could go do this as well. That's an actual thing that exists. You know, my son just graduated from college. And he's been going around and meeting with people and having conversations with people who work in different like industries, so that he can even understand how his degree applies to the world. So he's got a degree, and he doesn't know what he doesn't know. And so if you don't I mean, if you Yeah. So if you live in a rural area, where the business is pretty specific, I don't know how you're supposed to imagine what's happening right now in I don't know, Billings, Montana, or Atlantic City, New Jersey, or what people do for a living in Miami or Austin? Like, how do you imagine that if you don't know somebody that can explain it to you? And you don't know anybody who's ever gotten the hell out and gone and done one of those things? So there's no storytelling that to help you along? I guess that's, I don't know. Like, I don't know. I'm just talking. So yeah. Does that make sense to you?

Ashton 42:42
It does, yes. Because the other thing around this area that I've noticed, and I'm guilty of it, too. The friends we grew up with are kind of the ones you stick with. Yeah. Most of our lives, like I mean, I of course, I've even in the last year or two, I've gained friends from different towns and stuff. But we all went to the same high school, we all live within 3040 kilometers of each other. And we just, and that's the one thing that we've been trying to tell my brother in law, you need to get away from these people, you need to find someone else. Like we've offered her many times, you know, come out with us, we'll go for a quad ride or back, or, like, just come hang out with us instead of with the same people all the time. Yeah. And, or, you know, even my girlfriend, she she's got really bad anxiety and is having trouble making friends with and she just had a baby, and she's having trouble making friends. So, while we tell her, I tell her, well, let's go to this playgroup that they're holding out here, and maybe we can meet some people out there or it's kind of the same with my brother in law. And my cousin trying to tell them like there is more than just these 10 people out here

Scott Benner 44:19
Yeah. And then you can you can kind of have that feeling like why don't want to go meet those people. Those people are dorks or whatever, like they don't they're not cool like I am or they don't they're not interested in the things I'm in. But I think that those attitudes are probably mostly just you people protecting themselves well, I think what they really think is I don't want to I don't want to drag my coat up as to this playgroup. You don't I mean, and like, you know, yeah, I have all these people judge me, and you know, blah, blah. Like I think that kind of when you when you isolate yourself like that, you can isolate yourself for reasons you tell yourself, but there's probably other reasons you're actually doing it as well. And, and so, so you kind of find yourself in your In your circle, your I guess you kind of process through it already like you did it when you were younger, you're not doing it. Now you have a family, you're like building and you're like, hey, like everybody, like come over here with me where there doesn't have to be craziness and we can just live. But you can't get them to kind of jump on the other side of the fence with you.

Ashton 45:21
Yeah, it's. And I think that might be half of why I get so worked up and so upset about the situation is because I would have been in the same position as them. Yeah, I would have been right there with them. But I found this amazing guy, I started looking after my blood sugar's like, I went into DK over 10 times in my life. I've been in a coma, I've had my shins drilled through in order to get an IV and to me. And when I was about 22 years old, I puked for so long that my stomach lining came up.

Scott Benner 46:16
These are from like, DKA and not not taking care of yourself,

Ashton 46:19
not managing the stomach lining where I brought that a little bit of that up. That was actually from cocaine.

Unknown Speaker 46:27
Okay,

Ashton 46:29
I went out with my cousin. And I did some IR, I actually probably did more than I'd normally would have done. And I came home at midnight, and I puked until about eight in the morning. And I told I called my boyfriend to come get me. He brought me into the hospital. And I ended up being in there for a week. And he came to see me every day after work, he'd come sit with me in the hospital until he had to go home to bed. And I think that's what made made it click was he's not out there doing drugs. Why did I just go do this? And now I'm putting him through seeing me this ill in the hospital.

Scott Benner 47:20
And interesting to me is like the descritto Excuse me. Sorry, I did a bunch of coke before. I'm just kidding. Hold on.

What is interesting to me is that is that I mean that description of like the vomiting, right as an example. Or other things that you know, drinking, drinking, drinking, being so sick afterwards, if I said to you, across the street from your house is a lot of fun. But everybody in the house has the flu. And when you leave, you're gonna have the flu for six days. Would you say I'm not going there if I'm gonna get the flu? Yeah, but if I said you like, hey, next door, there's a bunch of coke and booze and you're gonna be incredibly sick afterwards. But it'll be a lot of fun. You'd go Alright, well, let's do that. That's so funny to me. Like, because the end result is, is feeling poorly. And for so that. So there's some other aspect to it. Right? There's some, you know, I don't know if it's addiction or what the other aspect of it is. I mean, imagine it's probably addiction. But somehow you like you had such a bad experience. You broke free of it. But now you're saddled with I don't know if you realize it or not. You have survivor's guilt. Like you got out.

Ashton 48:41
You know, I've never actually thought of it like that.

Scott Benner 48:44
Yeah, you got away from it. And now you feel responsible and guilty that you can't get everyone else out of it.

Ashton 48:52
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, that's, yeah. I've never thought of it like that. But no, you're 100%. Right.

Scott Benner 49:00
You know, the problem with that is, you know what the answer to that is, and it's tough is that you can't help those people. They have their own experience. They have to have their own vomiting, their stomach lining up experience, or something that's going to snap them out of it. And the truth is, those things may not come together. Honestly, you could have had your stomach lining experience and not had your boyfriend. And you might not have been your dog. Yeah, you might not have snapped out of it. Like it might have just been a confluence of different things in your life, that you were able to kind of stop and see all at once. And then those impacts of all those things together. were stronger than your desire to party. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, like your moment of clarity might not come to everybody, and you certainly can't make them have it.

Ashton 49:55
No, and I've actually been getting better with realizing Not lately. You know if my brother in law sends me a text and this, I know when there's something up, he will just text me and all he'll say, is Ashton in the texts? So then I'll just immediately say, what what do you need? What do you want, and then he'll go off. And I'll say, Well, I'm sorry, I can't help you. And I'll just, if I have to, I'll put my phone in another room and let him phone, let them text and just kind of ignore it. And my cousin isn't so bad that way. He knows. He knows what I've gone through my whole life. And I think deep down, he doesn't want to bother me with his problems. And, but my brother in law, he I'm, he talks, he'll go through everyone, he will call everyone he can think of, to go through the same circle about my life. I'm done doing this, I'm done doing drugs, I need to get my life back, I need to get my girlfriend back, I need to do this. And about every week or two weeks, it was the same thing over and over again. And I had to get to the point where I just said, You know what? Sorry. You know what? You do this all yourself? Like, I can't be there to help you. All I can tell you is we don't like you. We, we love we love you. But we don't love the addict.

Scott Benner 51:38
Do you? Consider telling them that they need to get help? Like, were you? Are you not interested in talking to them again? Like,

Ashton 51:46
oh, no, we thought he lives. So my father in law lives through the bush like to it's a two minute walk through the bush to my father in law's house. And my brother in law is now staying at my father in law's. So on his good days, we just don't bring it up, we let him have his good day. But on his bad days, I will tell him like get out of my yard. Or, you know, I can't deal with this. Today, I've got my daughter to deal with having a bad blood sugar day, whatever. And he is usually pretty good with backing off when you tell her mean, you need the space. It's hard, but

Scott Benner 52:29
it's hard to hear. But it's that that sort of a problem, like you see to the level that they can't handle it. Right? You can't handle it either. It's not it's not a thing. Any one person can just sort of shoulder and make go away. It's not like it's not like if he could throw his problems onto you, he'd suddenly stopped doing coke, he just be more unencumbered and be like, well, now I can really party because I'm not worried about all the other problems. It's not like that, that conversation that those people have with you about, oh, I'm gonna stop and this is gonna happen. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's not really they might want it to happen, but it's not going to it's no different than when someone comes to you and says, that's it for me. I'm done. I'm on a diet. You know, like, all right. Like,

Ashton 53:15
yeah, I'll see you when I believe.

Scott Benner 53:18
I heard that Arizona six months ago, they greatly so it's a it's a human. They're caught in a loop. And it's it is a pretty human thing. I think that's why a exists and and similar programs for drugs, and why people go to rehab, and things like that. Like, do you think that? I mean, is there locally supported rehab that they could go to? Oh, yes,

Ashton 53:45
we have. So

Scott Benner 53:48
business where you're at with this? Oh, yeah. There's a Walmart in a rehab next to it, right.

Ashton 53:55
I don't know why there's not more around here, honestly. Because we are like, from just from the experiences in the last year that we've had with them. It seems like they are just overrun with people, okay. And my cousin, my auntie and uncle actually paid for rehab twice for him. And each time, the first time he didn't even make it there. The second time he got outside and decided no, I can do this myself. I'm done. I'm not going and that's the other thing they need to want to go. Yeah, right. My my brother in law, we've had a man that deep talks twice now. And someone goes and picks him up. We don't know who this person is because he will tell us. I need you to drive me so my truck isn't there so I can't leave. So you know, my father in law or my cousin and took him in, brought him there. And all of a sudden, two days later, he's out. And he's got his truck again. And we asked him who picked him up? And he won't tell us. He says a friend, that's all he says, is a friend. And so he's just not quite ready, I guess to take to do the work, I

Scott Benner 55:23
can't matter to you, though. You know, they mean that you can't be your problem. If Yeah, you know, if this was your kid, or your, or your kids father, then okay, then you have like a, it's I mean, it's a tough thing to say. But there are points in life when, if a family members dragging you down, you know, you're I don't know if you've ever sometimes people drown. And the people that go to save them get pulled under by them. Yeah, there's a panic that happens during drowning. And they can't stop and they end up drowning both people. And this sounds so much like that. Just like they're in a situation that is so terrible. And they just like, they're gonna pull you back into it. Like, that's my fear, as you're talking actually, is that sent me an email in a year and say, Oh, God, I did coke. And I'm not taking care of my baby. And I just I went to help my friend or something. And then everyone was there. And like, you don't even mean like, it's if I was you. I don't know your situation, I would pack up and leave. I really, I really would. I'd moved I'd move somewhere else.

Ashton 56:38
Well, I would if I didn't have such a great support system where I'm at? Because yes, I do have those two, pause. And the third one was dabbling a little bit, but he's not. I don't know. He doesn't seem like he's addicted yet. And like you say, I can't do anything about it. It's his life. And I've come to that point now. Where if they call, or someone tells me Oh, yeah, your cousin had a slip up, or whatever. I'm just like, okay, like, I'm upset about it for 510 minutes. And then it's done with because my grandma was actually the one who told my grandma was actually the one who told me because I, one day was having a really hard time dealing with that with the fact that they were all addicted. And I told my grandma everything. And she said, Well, Ashton, you can't do anything about it. Here. You're just gonna worry yourself twice? For No, for no reason. Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 57:53
I mean, you have this baby. And here's your own thing. You have diabetes. And I mean, listen, of all the things that somebody's ever written to me about, like, why I want to be on the show. You're like, well, I'm, I have diabetes. And I'm, and I love people who are have addiction problems, and it's hard. And it's just while you're talking, the one thing that occurs to me is that because you are a person who grew up in that bubble, and you've been through it, like your description of using, like alcohol and Coke, as a younger person was disturbing to me. You were like, Hey, I just drank and then you just did some coke. So you could keep drinking? Like I Yeah, it's not a judgement at all. I just want you to understand that from my perspective, that's insane.

Ashton 58:42
Well, I I totally agree with you now that I'm in a good headspace. And

Scott Benner 58:48
but But what I'm saying is that when you're evaluating other people in your life, there is a section of you, that just sees that as partying. Like there's like, there's a part of you that at some point, thought that made sense. And I wonder if that part of you, keeps you from assessing what's happening to other people completely, honestly, because then you'd be assessing yourself. Like when you look at them, and they are a disaster. I don't know if you can say that to yourself, because then you're kind of saying, Oh, God, I used to be a disaster. I don't know. Like, maybe you can. But I just wonder if like, I don't know, sometimes, like, almost like, I'm the worst person to ask about what's in the podcast, because I'm too close to it. Like there are people that help moderate the Facebook page, who if you said to them, like I'm looking for an episode about this, they'd be like, bang, that's this one. If you asked me that, I'd go. I mean, I remember having a conversation about that, but I don't know. And so I wonder if like, because this is a world you live through, if you're not a little incapable of judging it as honestly as it needs to be judged.

Ashton 59:56
Like well, and you're completely right. err, and tell, I would say the last three, four months, I was talking, we, me and my husband were talking about the two boys that are having their trouble. And I just said to Tom, like, that was me. Eight years ago, yeah, I would have been there, I would have been right where they are with nothing. Like I shouldn't say nothing, because they do still have their vehicles in their houses. But they are barely scraping by to pay for those. And I said to Tom, I wouldn't have this beautiful child that I have. We actually just built an acreage on his dad's land. We've been in the house for a year now. And I said, like, look at all of this, look what I have. And if this was eight years ago, that I couldn't even imagine any of this. Right, I thought I thought I was gonna be going down that same path. And but the last few months, I really looked back on how I was, and how growing up growing up was. Or not growing up, but like, the teen years? Hard? Yeah. And like, I always wonder, would it be different if, you know, I went to a different school? Or if I went to, you know, the neighboring town, or if anything would have been different? And I, like I always, that's always in the back of my head is, am I protecting these two boys? Because I don't want everyone to look at me and judge me about what I used to do.

Scott Benner 1:01:57
Right? Yeah, that's why I said move. Like you need a fresh start. I know you can sounds like your property in places and stuff like that. But it's just one of those guys that you're talking about. If the day they were born, someone would have scooped them up and taken them to Maryland and left them on the front doorstep of some lovely people who don't drink and then do coke to reinvigorate themselves. They would 100% be a different person right now.

Ashton 1:02:25
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. And like I said, if I didn't have the support I do. I mean, my parents are here. My two grandparents are still alive. They're here. I understand. My father in law, his siblings, like we're all a very tight knit family. And we've all been sticking it sticking together through all of this. And at this point, I feel like if I like if I would have moved probably 10 years ago, that would have been perfect. But now at this point, if I were far away from the two boys, I don't know, I think I would just constantly be wondering where they are, and what they're doing. And because every day, not every day, but probably three times a week, if I haven't heard from either of those boys. I will, you know, text them and just be like, Hey, what's up, or I will ask my husband. Hey, have you talked to your brother lately? Or whatever, just because? I don't know. I guess what

Scott Benner 1:03:43
are you telling me? I should? Are you telling me that because that was your past? You don't have a future? No, no, no. You have to let go of it. Like that's the only answer. It sucks. Like, Listen, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a therapist. I'm a person. But I'm listening to you. And I've met Listen, I have a an acquaintance who grew up with insane parents. Okay, like really controlling, odd, insane people. And it was ruining their life. And then one day, they just went to their mother and said, I love you. But you're dragging me down with you. And we're not going to speak anymore. And then they just didn't do it and their life righted itself like it Yes, it was her mother and that made it really difficult. But but that that person was a chain with a weight on it around her neck. And she and and it turned out the chain had a latch on it. And she just she wasn't being drugged down by something she couldn't get off. She She just didn't want to get rid of it because it was her mom. And then yeah, did and I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying that this woman is just floating around the world going like I don't talk to my mom anymore. That doesn't matter to me. That is a source of trouble for her. But it is Not as much trouble as the mother was. And like, I know you're gonna feel badly. But But what I keep wondering is, or are you guys also local to each other that you can avoid them?

Ashton 1:05:15
That's kind of it. We all live within 1015 minutes of each other. And we're in a really, really small town, like not, I don't even know how many people probably 2500. Okay. So not a ton of people, and we all still have a lot of the same friends. Like, we have a friend who we hang out with, but then we'll, we'll hang out with him for months and months, and it'll be fine. And then all of a sudden, he'll say, Oh, I ran into, and we went and had a crazy night out.

Scott Benner 1:06:05
Yeah, that's not going to stop. That's what I'm saying. But yeah, it's such a hard thing to say out loud. It's not gonna stop it. No, you could listen, my wife leaves her shoes on the floor. She's bad about it. If I really put my mind to it. I don't know if I could get her to stop doing it. And that's not drinking and cocaine. So, you know, you mean like, it's it's not an addiction she has, it isn't a crutch about her life. It isn't. It isn't a bunch of pain manifesting itself in an activity. It's that she's she, she has a habit. And she would first of all have to listen to me when I said, Hey, listen, you leave your shoes in the middle of the floor. We're going to stop doing that. She'd have to say, okay, Scott, you know what, you're right. I'm going to put some effort into that, can you please remind me every time and it would still be a process just to get a human being an adult to stop doing something that simple. My I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer here. But you're not going to stop those people from being who they are.

Ashton 1:07:10
No. And I've really, like I said, the last few months, I've really come to realize that. And we have distanced ourselves as much as possible. My brother in law, like he came over, I think, a week ago, he was in a good mindset, and everything came over and plowed our driveway. And that's the most I've seen him in probably in a few months. And like, just, I'm just trying my best to distance myself from them.

Scott Benner 1:07:45
Yeah. And try not feel bad for you when you're talking about it. Because I know you love these people. And this isn't what you want to do.

Ashton 1:07:53
No, it's not what I want to do. But for my family, my daughter, my sanity, my diabetes, I need to. And my two cousins. Like we have drifted apart tremendously since I had my daughter because of this reason. And same with my husband and brother in law, they used to be best friends. And Tom has just distanced himself, because he just can't handle the fact that while he lost his mother, and now they could possibly lose his brother. Okay, and so he's trying to, and he needs he also realized, his brother told him, he was starving and needed groceries. So we lent him some money. And Tom said, I should have went to the grocery store and picked him up food and not given him money.

Scott Benner 1:09:01
Right? Because the problems are sorted.

Ashton 1:09:05
Yeah, exactly. And then, about a week after that, Tom said, You know what? No, he doesn't need anything from me. Even if he is starving, I'm not going to the grocery store and buying food that he's like, I feel like that is enabling him. And he's told his dad to you need to stop lending him money to, you know, top up with his bills, because he's always, you know, $300 short on his bills or something like that.

Scott Benner 1:09:38
Yeah, I was gonna say that. There's the thing about lending people money, right? You don't lend people money. You just give it to them? Because you shouldn't expect it back. And yeah, and the bigger problem is the first time you do it, all it really does is lead to the second time it has to happen, which leads to the 50th time where they're like, Oh, I'm just $50 short this month, or I'm there assume that because they are in a they're in a deficit, right? They have a need doesn't matter that it's money, they have a need, yeah, meet the need, you have, probably you're not, I don't imagine you're sitting around with like, oh, we just have all this extra money sitting around. I don't know what to do. You don't I mean, it's Yeah. And so just because you've got a tiny bit of savings, or a couple of dollars in your pocket, and can afford to hands and probably can't afford, but can get away with handing somebody $50 or $100, or something like that, or giving them food. It's never going to stop. Never, ever, ever, ever going to stop. Because then that becomes part of their hunting and get their hunting and gathering process. Like I have a job, that job makes money, I have costs, I have a home, I have a truck, I have clothing, I have food, I don't meet those costs every month, but it doesn't matter. Because actions given me money. Now you're part of it. You're their job now to go to them and tell the sad story and go, I'm gonna stop I really am. But right now, I can't afford bread in my stomach, like, you know, like, and then you're like, oh, hell, and then that guilt gets to you, you give them that money, they're not giving it back to you. If they can exact right? And moreover, they're going to come back to you and ask for it again. So whether it's money, something tangible like that, or food, or it's part of yours, or if it's more psychological, like when they come to you, and they fallen apart, and now they need to dump their thing on you and then have you tell them, It's okay, you're basically recharging them. They're stealing your use of resources. And whether those resources are in your head or in your pocket. These people are there, they're black holes. That will you you can't fill them.

Ashton 1:11:42
That's exactly it. Because he is my brother in law, same thing, he will come and he Well, I shouldn't say he will. Because this, he's been doing better to the last while. But But up until about a month and a half, two months ago, he would come to us and try and dump everything on us. And we would just say, well, you that's your fault. You caused this, you did this, you made the choice. And he would just dump it on you. And he'd either get upset, or he'd agree with you completely. And then he Oh, well, I gotta go. And then he just leave and he wouldn't go home that night.

Scott Benner 1:12:25
Yeah, let me let me ask you. What do you in a perfect scenario? What would you want from these people?

Ashton 1:12:34
Honestly, I would just want for them to show up at you know, the two three family dinners we have a year. I think that's all I really want is to you know, have one or two good days with them once in a while.

Scott Benner 1:12:52
You see that's for you. But for Yeah. Yeah, for them. What do you need them to do? I don't like if I put you in charge of their life, if we took away their free will and I gave it to you. What would you make them do?

Ashton 1:13:10
I would make them quit the drugs obviously. Get a job. Find or you know, get a job or go to school or find a hobby. Lots of the boys around like my husband is leaving on a trip in a week to go snowmobiling at Revelstoke.

Scott Benner 1:13:33
Oh, that's a normal thing. They're not going to do normal stuff. But now, so those things that you just asked that you would say magic wand, make this person stop drinking, make them stop doing this? Are they going to do that? No. Okay, so then what's the what's the answer for you, because what I'm telling you is, you're not in control of them. And you being a crutch for them is just going to ruin you. You have a baby, you can't give somebody money, okay? And you can't give them your time or your energy. You don't want to be anxious. Listen, if they're driving your blood sugar up, I hate to I hate to talk like this. But if your blood sugar is bouncing all over the damn place, you can't be a good mom. And maybe 20 years from now, you're not going to be a healthy person because of that. And, and 20 years from now, when you're looking at your 21 year old child in the face, you're like, Well, I'm dying now. So good luck in this world, because I spent my whole life giving away my resources to people who didn't appreciate it and who were probably not saveable to begin with. So the so what I'm saying is the answer is this. They have to go to rehab and go through that process. And it works for them or it doesn't, and I would hope that it would, but that's the end of what you can do for them. You can tell them one time. I can't speak to you again until you complete rehab. Do not call here don't text me. Don't come by don't asked me for anything, don't come to any events, go to rehab, finish rehab, come back to me show me a chip. And then we can start talking again. Because you're not as much as this sucks to say they're not in a measurement of humanity at the moment, they're not where you are.

Ashton 1:15:20
No. And honestly, I've even the last I'd say week, I've come to the realization that they probably never will be.

Scott Benner 1:15:32
Well, hopefully, hopefully they can be. But that can't be your problem.

Ashton 1:15:34
Yeah, yeah, no, right, exactly. And I'm getting better at letting that go. And focusing on just my friends and family who are there. And trying to just distance myself from them. I'm working on that. I just

Scott Benner 1:15:55
so I don't know a ton about this. But I think it's possible that you should go to an Al Anon meeting.

Ashton 1:16:04
See, and that's the other thing. My husband had mentioned to me. He, because I had told my brother in law's girlfriend. I said, well, there is support meetings, maybe you should go to that. And when we got home from visiting her, he said to me, maybe you should look into doing this because you said I would, but it's just my brother. And I'm, I'm doing okay with it with that. But you it's, you're my brother, your two cousin, three cousins struggling

Scott Benner 1:16:45
with it. And that's fine. Yeah. Listen, growing up with alcoholic parents, or in an alcoholic like place is, is is impactful on people? Like it actually changes things like about your, like, let me see if I can think of one off the top of my head. Are you more comfortable when things are crazy? Like when when life looks good? Does it make you feel like it can't possibly last? You ever

Ashton 1:17:13
times like I'm more the last year or more content with calmness, and basically nothingness. So like, no one's bothering me. I'm good with that you

Scott Benner 1:17:27
are making real progress for yourself. I sounds like you are I listen, I can only assess you on what you're saying. Right? But you're making really good progress on your for yourself. And I just I don't know, I would treat. I would treat them like they were the flu. And I'd be like, I don't want to be around that. I don't want I don't want that get on me. Now. Listen, here's the interesting thing. If your brother in law came on the podcast, I wouldn't tell him, Hey, I hope people around you will abandon you. I hope that everybody leaves you, I would tell them, here's what you need to do for yourself. Yeah, I wouldn't tell him. Here's what you have to get your sister in law to do for you. Right? And so I it's not without compassion that I'm saying these things to you. I'm talking to you about your specific situation and to defend you and your specific situation. You have to get away from these people. Like yeah, that's that. I mean, I you know, it's harsh. And it's, it might sound cold, but it would only sound cold to somebody who doesn't know what this is. This reality is like, because this Yeah, right. Yeah, drowning, and they are trying to pull you under with them.

Ashton 1:18:40
And honestly, if I, myself didn't do the drugs and the drinking when I was younger, I think it might be easier for me.

Scott Benner 1:18:50
Oh, you'd be harsher. Yeah. Because you wouldn't have any perspective for it.

Ashton 1:18:53
Exactly. I wouldn't have that. What's the word? I'm looking for empathy? Like, yeah, empathy, I wouldn't have that same. I would.

Scott Benner 1:19:03
Your empathy is causing you to swim out 100 yards into the ocean and go, don't worry, I'll pull you back in. And you're not qualified for that. So not at all. So what's the answer? Tell me your because we're at the end here. We're wrapping up. So tell me you're telling me what the answer is to this. Like, what do you do next?

Ashton 1:19:22
I think my next shot, my next step is just let it be if you know if I am over at my father in law's and my brother in law is there and he's having a good day. I'll let him have that good day. I'll act like nothing's going on. But when he is in a bad spot, I just ignore him and leave and come home. I think is my best. Best Action right now.

Scott Benner 1:19:54
It's a good step also what it's going to teach you. My expectation is that At some point, you're going to progress and grow to the point where you think I don't even want to be around this one day a week. Exactly. You will, it'll, and that's where you have to kind of go to your that's where you almost have to go to your father in law and say, Look, I don't I'm not asking you to choose between your children. But I hope you understand that I can't bring my baby here. Like, like, we're doing a good job of building a good life for ourselves. And we can't keep coming back to this. And I feel badly that this is the situation with the boys or whatever. But yeah, we can't be around this. Listen, I'm gonna tell you something right now. There are people in my family and my extended family, people I love and care about greatly, who my children have never been in their car. And when it became obvious that we weren't allowing our kids in their car, and they sent it to us, we responded by saying, Yeah, I can't let you drive my kids anywhere. And you have to, you know, I'm sorry. And I know that's harsh. But we but and this is almost the same thing. Like because it was hard to say to them, it was hard for them to hear. And yet I had something I cared about more than their feelings.

Ashton 1:21:18
Exactly. And we've had a sort of similar situation is your car thing. Um, brother in law about six, eight months ago, asked if he could stay here, because he wasn't waking up for his alarms for work in the morning. He stayed here, and he wasn't waking up to his alarm. So my husband went and went down the hallway to wake him up. And he poked him a couple times and said, Get up. You're going to be late for work. Sorry,

Scott Benner 1:21:51
you're fine. I gave up on that a while ago.

Ashton 1:21:58
And he absolutely lost it. started calling my husband right down to the ground, went into the bathroom to have a shower and slammed the door. The bathroom was right beside my daughter's room. This is at 530 in the morning. So as soon as brother in law went out the door to go to work. I looked at my husband. I said he's not saying here one more time. He's not

Scott Benner 1:22:30
because he wasn't he wanted a mommy. He wanted somebody to help them get out of bed in the morning. Exactly. Man, you didn't want me got mad at you?

Ashton 1:22:38
Yeah, and he wasn't even high that night.

Scott Benner 1:22:43
No, he's emotionally immature. Exactly. Yeah.

Ashton 1:22:48
And so after that, I said, not. He's not to be around Rory when he's acting like that. He's not coming to stay here again. The other situation? His girlfriend got pregnant. She's about halfway along now. So Tom, and I had the conversation. Well, if he projects this baby attitude onto his child, well, our child will not be hanging out with his child.

Scott Benner 1:23:25
I don't know how to break it to you. It's already too late for that. That kid's already doomed. Exactly. That when it comes to that, that this person isn't fixing themselves before that kid becomes impressionable. That's yeah, that's not helpful.

Ashton 1:23:38
That's what my husband said to we're hoping that the well I don't know if their girlfriend if it's his ex girlfriend or girlfriend, but I think she is going to stay living where she is with out him. And they're gonna try and CO parent I think, I don't know, it changes all the time. What's

Scott Benner 1:23:59
gonna happen? I have some money. I'd like to bet on that. Yeah, so and I don't mean to be make light of it. I know. It really is just there is a there is a giant force moving in a direction. And a new baby or a girlfriend or you helping somebody wake up in the morning is not enough to stop this tidal wave that is this person's life. Like it is fine to crash down on the shore and destroy everything that it touches. And you got to move like you got to get away from where it's going to happen. And it's hard but and I get your get the feeling the overwhelming feeling of I can help I can help. I can help but I mean, that's the same feeling that a that a gambler has no I gotta hit this time. And then you know, it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen and then you'd make bigger and bigger bets to try to like win back what you've lost. And then before you know it, it's you in a dark black space with nothing around you. If you've bet your shoes, you're naked. It's over. And now you're done. And then that taints your child's life. Exactly. It's all we all know what to do here, Ashton. It's just a question of whether or not you're gonna do it.

Ashton 1:25:12
Yeah, and I've been working on it sounds like you're trying pretty hard for her for her.

Scott Benner 1:25:17
Pretty impressive what you're doing seriously? Like, like, Yeah, I'm not kidding. Like, it's not like you were like, the, the, like, the straight edge kid in the family. Like you did the whole thing, too. And then oh, yeah, hold yourself out. I, you know.

Ashton 1:25:33
And that's the thing is my younger cousin, the one who is starting to dabble in the cocaine. He was always the one who was straight edge. He started a company, he's got a company now, he led a small engine company. He he was always the one who said no, you know, you ask them for, if you want to cigarette Oh, no, I'm good. You know, he'll have two drinks and go to bed. Or he was never really a party, kid. And now he's getting drug into it. And that's a big worry for me. Because how can me go from? How can I go from party girl, wild child to family woman. And it was like, I, it didn't take me any work. It was just I woke up one day and I decided I'm, I'm done. I don't want that. I want a family. I want a life with this guy I want. And I just gave it up. And I just It worries me about my younger cousin quite a bit, because he was such a good kid. And he was always able to say no, and now he's dabbling, too. So I've had to distance myself from him, too.

Scott Benner 1:27:03
Yeah, I'm sorry. It's terrible. It there's nothing. Nothing

Ashton 1:27:07
it is. I have other like, I have my family and everything. But other than them, those three, but it's getting hard. And I've found, like I said, blood sugars with them up and down like they have been, it's so easy for me to get into that depressive mood. Where I'm bawling because I don't know where my brother in law or my cousins are or

Scott Benner 1:27:42
Yeah, but if you didn't know where they were or anything about their life, you wouldn't be worried about them. So you have to do what's best for you. Stop thinking about of just like your blood sugar, although I see you see it in your blood sugar. But really step back and see that what's really happening is that your emotions, and your nervous system, and everything about you is in turmoil for knowing these people

Ashton 1:28:05
do exactly that. Yeah, that is a great way to put it.

Scott Benner 1:28:10
Yeah. Forget, forget, forget, like forget focusing on your blood sugar, or on one thing, it's peace. There's a peace that comes with life. And, and they're taking it from you, or you're giving it to them, probably more specifically,

Ashton 1:28:25
I would say I'm giving it to them. Because I've given them your piece. I tell them I tell myself all the time. Ignore them, ignore them, ignore them, and then they will, you know, oh, hey, do you mind if we stop over for five minutes? And is it Rory don't come here? Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And then we ended up getting into a big conversation about you know, the other. The other thing is my brother in law and my cousin, they always come to us to bitch about each other. Okay, so that needs to stop to

Scott Benner 1:29:06
see the I don't know if you notice, but basically, what what you're surrounded with is a lot of reasons why bad stuff happens. And it all feels so normal to you. That you almost say it like, I don't know what the example here is. If you almost say it like, oh, you know what happens? They come over here and then they have to sleep here. So I have to wake them up in the morning. You almost say it like, you know what happens? Like some days you have to vacuum the rug. Like it's not normal. Yeah, but you haven't all these things that you're saying? They're not normal. But they seem normal to you.

Ashton 1:29:40
Yeah, it's just how it's been the last, probably your whole lives around. Well.

Scott Benner 1:29:49
What about the adults on your family who were doing the same thing 20 years ago? Yeah, I probably didn't see it happening. But these are probably just things that are repeating over and over again.

Ashton 1:29:59
And That's a big thing my husband and I are working on is breaking that cycle.

Scott Benner 1:30:06
Yeah, listen, you can break it in five seconds. Because you're right, exactly. Yeah, there's a way to break it, you can be done with this right now. So it's, um, it's up to you. Really, it's up to you about like, the level in which you're going to separate. And yeah, I can't tell you for sure that you going to bet it's going to work. But I'll tell you, it's worth trying.

Ashton 1:30:30
It is at this point, because like I said, every day, if something will come up, that reminds me of one of those boys. And that's what's on my mind for the next hour. Are they alive? Did they make it through the night? Did and I need to distance myself from that?

Scott Benner 1:30:47
Yeah, what you should be worrying about is, how's my blood sugar? Is it stable? Am I gonna live a good long time to raise my child and live with my person that I love? And do the things that I want to do? Like, that's, yeah, that's really where your focus should be. It's on yourself and your family. And you have to stop thinking of your cousin or a brother in law, on the same level as you think about your child or your husband. It just, it's, that's just what it is. I probably sound so callous today.

Ashton 1:31:15
No, no, I,

Scott Benner 1:31:19
I guess Yeah. But not to you. But I'm thinking the people listening are probably like Jesus got a little bit. But yeah, I mean, you've given people more than enough chances. And their situation is dire enough that expecting just you to be kind to them, or give them 50 bucks, or a loaf of bread and some milk and some other stuff. That's not going to work. So no, you have to do something that's going to work and protect yourself do because, by the way, he said it early on in the show, and we never it's got nothing to do with your direct story. But violence does follow drinking and drugs, and bad decisions and violence and sometimes violence on purpose. And sometimes violence by mistake in the form of a car accident or something like that, or even a home accident. These are not things you don't want to wake up tomorrow to hear that your husband had a car accident with somebody. And you don't I mean, like it's just I don't know, I my brain might be overly simplistic, but I would just get away from that. I would I would never and I'm not just talking about my ass like I've done it my life. Like I've seen people on my go, you are not dragging me down. I get one shot at this. I get I got my kids, my wife my opportunity. I am absolutely not. For somebody who doesn't want the help or can accept the help. You can't force it on them. And so

Ashton 1:32:45
and you just I've had a it's been so easy for me to accept that with, you know, close friends of mine that I've that I grew up with. I can no problem. Just delete them out of my life. Yeah, just like that. I'm have no problem. Just these two boys. They are albatross

Scott Benner 1:33:10
don't let them. Don't let them be your albatross. Like, just you got it. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm telling you that allanon is not a bad answer. I think I think really, that would be how you'd that that would be a way where you could talk to other people who've been in the same situation. And they could, yeah, you know what happened to them.

Ashton 1:33:29
Because it's not my, you know, my child or my parents or my brother, my sibling that is addicted. They are farther away from me. But we've all grown up so close that I'm just having that hard time letting them go. And I think you're right. I think an Al Anon meeting would probably even just to go to one I'm sure would make me feel so much lighter.

Scott Benner 1:33:57
I even forget being lighter. You have to find a way to value yourself over the their problems. So yeah, hey, I'm sorry, I shouldn't I actually I have to get I have a meeting coming up. Oh, no, sorry.

Ashton 1:34:13
I didn't realize wait, no,

Scott Benner 1:34:14
no, don't be sorry. We had a nice concert. I love this this wonderful. I I want you to know that I'll go back and edit it. I'll take everybody's names out. Okay. You're fine. And, and I appreciate you sharing the story. It's I think it's more I mean, listen, the salient details might be different. Maybe it's not cocaine and booze. Maybe it's, you know, other things, but there are plenty of people living with diabetes, who who are impacted by the people around them in negative ways. And I thought it was just really, I mean, it wasn't a whole story. Like you couldn't have talked about it for an hour. But hearing you say my blood sugar is affected by people around me be In short heads, and I don't know how to stop it, I think it's something a lot of people are going to are going to find some commonality with while they're listening. It might not be whale fields and Coke, but there's something going on in people's lives that is doing the same thing to them. So I really appreciate Yeah, time talking.

Ashton 1:35:18
That's kind of why I wanted to come on to is just how family members or loved ones affect our care

Scott Benner 1:35:30
into one group and call the mother. How's that? How the mother years in our life are affecting my diabetes. And why? Why don't they pull their head out of their ass so I can stop worrying about them. That's a long file off that I have to pare that down to probably something like after dark oil drilling and Coke, but you know

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. You spell that g v o OKEGLUC. Ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I also want to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six and Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems, please get yours at my link dexcom.com forward slash juice box and of course the today's guest Ashton for telling this incredible story. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're looking for a community around your diabetes, check out the Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, it's a private group. It's absolutely free. I think it has like 37,000 members. It's incredibly active, very helpful. And it doesn't matter if you have type one, type two or whatever. There's every kind of diabetic and person using insulin and parent of somebody you can imagine there to great group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, absolutely free on Facebook. If you're enjoying the show, please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. And please subscribe or follow in an audio app like Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon music or something like that.