Scott Benner 10/11/22 Scott Benner 10/11/22

#770 Hate Listen

Melena has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, you're listening to Episode 770 of the Juicebox Podcast. Cue the music

on today's show we're going to be speaking with Molina, she's 20 years old lives in Germany and has had type one diabetes for most of her life. While you're listening to Molina tell her story, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. I'm looking for type one or type one caregivers who are US residents to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out a very short survey. When you complete the survey. You have helped me You have helped yourself and you've helped other people living with type one diabetes, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. easy questions. You know the answers to these questions. They're not super difficult. They are completely anonymous. The questions and the entire thing are HIPAA compliant. You're safe, you're covered and you're helping T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox take you fewer than 10 minutes. Damn custody time.

Let's hope that said what I thought I did. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitoring system. And the Dexcom G seven which was just released in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Germany, Austria and Hong Kong, more countries the GM very soon, learn more or get started today@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox you may be eligible for a free 10 day trial, the Dexcom G six Learn more at my link. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox

Melena 2:16
Hi, my name is Melina. I'm 20 years old. I live in South Germany. And I've had diabetes for I think 16 years.

Scott Benner 2:28
You think 16 years? I think I'm just doing the math. Yeah. Soon to be 17 years. You know, I kind of like it when people don't exactly know. Because it just feels so normal. They're like I don't know, I've had it for a while now. diagnosed as a kid. And are you do you live on your own? You do right?

Melena 2:52
Um, well, I am I'm kind of an in between situation. So I'm currently working in internship quite close to home. So I spend like the week at my own flat, and I go home during the weekends. Oh,

Scott Benner 3:10
that's nice. So you see you live with your parents, but you have this situation where you're gone for a little while at your own place. Exactly. Excellent. So you're out of college, or this is part of part of university.

Melena 3:23
This is like the last part of college. Okay. I'm finishing up now.

Scott Benner 3:28
Nice. What's your degree in?

Melena 3:31
Psychology?

Scott Benner 3:33
Excellent. Don't pick me apart too much. Okay, while we're doing this, if you notice, I'm really unstable. Tell me privately. I you know what, I don't care. Tell me here if you want to. So what made you interested in that line of work?

Melena 3:49
Well, I got I shouldn't be telling this.

Scott Benner 3:55
This sounds like a good start. Believe it. Let's tell us, let's tell me some things. You don't want to tell anybody?

Melena 4:00
No. I'm more interested in like General Psychology not like therapy or anything like that. And what kind of got me interested is we live in a world with so much technology around us where human error is kind of one of the biggest pods. So understanding why we as humans are as fallible as we are was like one of my major motivations.

Scott Benner 4:30
I like that. Have you figured anything out so far?

Melena 4:35
Well, a lot, actually. I mean, humans have so many biases and make so many errors, which I mean, we all make the same mistakes. Technically. Yeah. So that's been interesting.

Scott Benner 4:56
So simple stuff like we have a preconceived notion about something? And then even if the correct answer is presented to us, we can't see it. And not only can we not see it, but we'll defend our position. Is that right?

Melena 5:10
Exactly? Yeah. Well, like, the first impression you get off a person is going to influence your entire behavior towards the person. Even if everything that happened after your first meeting is completely unrelated to that,

Scott Benner 5:25
if the person you met was aware of that, can they change how you feel about them?

Melena 5:32
Not really, actually, that's one of the hardest things about biases that are very, very hard to avoid, even if you yourself are aware of them.

Scott Benner 5:44
Is it uncommon for people to be aware of them?

Melena 5:48
I mean, most people don't really think about them at all. So there, there's kind of not not a desire for awareness. I mean, in our social behavior, and everything regarding to that we make so many small, unconscious decisions. I don't think people even spend time thinking about this. And therefore there's not that much to be aware about, in most people's Well, minds.

Scott Benner 6:17
Is this, why we see, what's an example why we see people save vote against their own best interest sometimes?

Melena 6:28
That's one example. Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 6:30
Like you've you just somebody has sold you a bill of goods, and you believe in it so much, that you can look in the face of it and say, I'm going to I'm going to support this, even though even though it's going to hurt you? Yes, yeah. It's fantastic, isn't it? Is it because we're on? What's the word I want? Is it because our minds are still mostly undeveloped?

Melena 6:58
Well, I, I don't actually know. I have to be homeless? Yeah, um, I think it's because there's so many things going on in our minds. I mean, the part of our decision making, which we experienced consciously is a very small part, there are very many things, basically, open browser taps in the back of our head, okay, which are always working. And so I actually think this is an effect of our mind doing a lot of things and our consciousness being very limited.

Scott Benner 7:37
So, so what, what should we do? Should we put a like, I guess maybe all you could do is try to be ultra aware of your actions and reactions, and judge them in the moment and then have some sort of a process set up in your own life where you can put a stop to them, and read and then and then you make the next decision you would make about that? That subject, I would guess then would be more conscious and less coming from one of those open tabs.

Melena 8:08
Yeah, yeah. So as I said before, like, the biggest part in fighting all of these unconscious effects is awareness of them. Like if you consciously start thinking about, hey, why don't I like this person, for example? You're you tend to be more aware of the reasons things like this happen.

Scott Benner 8:31
It's interesting. I think it's, have you found ways I should say that are applicable to diabetes?

Melena 8:40
Well, I mean, it's kind of this thing, I have thought about this in the past. And I think maybe it's people who like to stick to like one kind of technology, like people who don't want to pump because they're so used to their pants, pants like this, this notion of their pants working. And this being the thing that once helped them that they want don't want to get, like another option. So I think this is kind of familiar.

Scott Benner 9:19
I can tell you a place that maybe

Melena 9:20
if like when way of therapy has been very successful in the past, and you don't want to try new things, because you've got like, the positive effect of this going on.

Scott Benner 9:36
I've seen it I think a little when people talk about insulin pricing as an example. Because you have this very obvious reaction, like this shouldn't be this expensive, right? We shouldn't.

Melena 9:49
I'm gonna interrupt you right there. I'm from Germany.

Scott Benner 9:55
You don't pay for your insulin.

Melena 9:56
Identify for my insulin.

Scott Benner 9:59
Well, We'll pick something else, then it's, you know, let's see, I don't know, I don't I don't have an apples to apples. I'm just gonna have to keep going with my description for a second. But you know insolence expensive here. And it's, you know, if you're covered by insurance for some people, it almost cost nothing I would, I would expect that we don't pay, you know, out of pocket, it's easy to say I probably pay $20 a month or something for insulin, which isn't true, we have a health insurance plan, which I think we probably contribute. Oh, gosh, by the time you pay for the plan every month out of your paycheck, and then there's an amount of money, you have to pay cash in the beginning, I probably pay $8,000 a year for health insurance. So you know, to say that insolence $20 isn't really fair. All of our doctor's appointments, aren't in support supplies, etc. cost us, you know, I bet we pay eight to $10,000 a year for all that stuff. And then there's copays where you sometimes show up at an office and have to still pay $20 or $40, and etc, medications, etc. But but the point is, is that when you hear people argue about it and say it should be free, I say I say yes, it definitely should be free. And they'll say, well, in Germany, it's free. Why can't we do that here? And then I don't know, I might say, well, then that's just not how it's set up here right now, you know, and there are people who make money off of it in all different kinds of ways. So just saying that you think it should be free is not going to fix it? Right, you need, you need to see a bigger picture. And there are ways to attack the problems. Now we're not talking about insulin prices anymore. We're talking about democracy, commerce, you know, you know how people make money, but but when the argument happens, it's just like, This is wrong. And I'm like, No, I, I know it's wrong. Now get past that and come up with an answer. And then sometimes the answers like, freak me out, like I had a person tell me one time. Pharmaceutical companies shouldn't have PR departments, they shouldn't run ads, and then they would save all kinds of money on that. And then that money, they could take off the price of insulin. I said, Well, that's, I mean, okay, like, I don't know if that's a real idea or not, but take your opinion. And we'll keep moving forward, I said, What happens if one of the PR executives has diabetes, and now he doesn't have a job, and now he can't afford his and his insulin, but now we give the money we were gonna give him we give it to somebody else, now they can afford us a different really fix the problem, you've moved the problem around a little bit. And then the response is so emotional, that they can't talk through the real problem. And I wonder if that's not a similar situation, where you just keep having an emotional response to something, instead of being able to step back, and then work through the rest of it, like all of the other problems, and I mean, it's a little bit of a stretch to attach it to diabetes, but it is what happens to people they get caught in whatever kind of occurs to them. First of this isn't right now, this is what I defend, or someone else steps up and goes, well, people have to make money too. And then that's the perspective that they defend. Nobody ever stands in the middle and tries to absorb all of the complexity. I guess, that that's, that's uncommon. Sometimes.

Melena 13:29
I think I kind of the comparison I'm thinking of is the the example you always use when someone's always going low, because their Basal is technically too low. The Basal rates not strong enough, and they keep correcting. And they always think like, there's so there must be too much insulin going on, which technically it is because of the corrections. But the core of the problem if they would step away from the current situation would be that it's actually not enough.

Scott Benner 14:03
Yeah. I gotcha. That's I tell I talked about all the time, you must like this podcast

Melena 14:10
might have listened to some episodes.

Scott Benner 14:16
How long have you been aware of the podcast?

Melena 14:20
Um, I think late 2018, early 2019.

Scott Benner 14:27
Nice. I was really hitting my stride then. Although I think I've done some good stuff prior to that. There just weren't as many people. There weren't as many people listening at that point. How did you find

Melena 14:40
it? Um, actually, it was kind of like, and I don't want to call it an accident, but I just I scrolled past it because when I moved out from my parents for university, I was living Yes, in a single person fled. So during most of the I just I had no one to talk to. And so I generally started listening to podcasts. And, well, there are only so many true crime podcasts out there. And so I kind of just went around for looking for, like things I could listen to, which would interest me. And diabetes was not something I was thinking about. But the moment it showed up on I think it was Spotify. I was kind of thinking, Well, I have diabetes. I could just as well listen to this.

Scott Benner 15:46
I appreciate that. I know of the true crime. The true crime podcasts are apparently huge. With with, especially with women, apparently. I don't understand why, but I'm glad that you were able to get away from them. I've just looked while you're talking. And Germany is my fifth most popular country. Oh, okay. You beat beat New Zealand, who, by the way, New Zealand, you're dropping off a little bit. So let's try to get it together. Okay. That's a win when you find it, and I'm American, does that change anything for you?

Melena 16:22
Not really, um, I mean, I listen to a lot of podcasts and English, and I watch most of the TV I watched watching English, though, doesn't really make a difference. And we also like use what's what's the unit, or milligrams per deciliter for blood sugar levels. So it was actually kind of helpful. Americans.

Scott Benner 16:51
Okay, what happens when you realize I'm now listening to a diabetes podcast by an American who doesn't have diabetes?

Melena 16:59
Well, I'm, I'm thinking of how I'm gonna express myself here. First, I was kind of mad at you, maybe. Because the thing is, when I was diagnosed when I was four, and up until my teen years, my father was the person responsible for most of all other diabetes related things. And that cause us to not have such a great relationship to some of my teen years. So listening to a father talking about his daughter's diabetes, which she manages, um, I mean, I was interested I was I was also kind of like, I didn't want to say hate listening, but it kind of started is that

Scott Benner 17:57
I imagine a lot of people hate Listen, but that's that's okay with me mad because I shouldn't be talking about something I don't have or mad because I'm doing something with my daughter you wish your dad did? Or what's this? How does that hit? You?

Melena 18:14
know, I kind of I think like, looking at someone's blood sugar, treating someone with insulin, always like the idea of back when I was growing up Dexcom was not as big as it is now. It wasn't a thing in the early years, even like the idea of when I was like, I don't know, in my early teens, or late late childhood, somewhere around that. If my father would have had like, like a Dexcom to look at and would have basically followed me around, like, Western looking at my numbers. I kind of think this is a scary thing for me to imagine.

Scott Benner 19:04
Would it feel in true Civ? Or you just wouldn't want your dad that close all the time? Or,

Melena 19:10
um, I would feel intrusive and also like being in control of some someone else like, pretty much completely. So. Yeah.

Scott Benner 19:23
Okay. I gotcha. That makes sense to me. How long did you listen with the stain before you started to think? I like this podcast, and I like what we're talking about.

Melena 19:37
Well, once I started trying the things you actually were talking about, ah, well, I was, as I said, I was living on my own I was going to universities, so I kind of made my own schedule. I could time when and what I ate, so I had a lot of time to drain I try new things with using insulin with different foods and stuff. And once like I got into this off, I've mentioned up to until that point, I've basically managed my diabetes the same way since I started managing on my own. And with the ideas I got from the podcast, I started to well have better control, see the better numbers, and there was kind of thinking like, this guy might actually know what he's talking about.

Scott Benner 20:34
So you, you know, people might think I did this on purpose, but I did not know Molina's background and psychology before we started doing this. So I just wanted to be clear that I did not know about that before we started but basically, you just went through the entire process that we spoke about in the beginning, like having a preconceived notion of something but then you broke free of it, which is a now we know from the earlier part of our conversation is a is a really a kind of a big celebration to have, because it's uncommon. So you're saying that most commonly people would listen to it have their reaction and not be able to adjust? So did you do something to help yourself adjust or do you think that the desperation that diabetes puts you in just makes you open to listen to different ideas?

Melena 21:28
I mean, I would not call it desperation because I the way I was managing my diabetes I did not have any issues so I was I was not looking for answers I basically stumbled upon them I see um, but I just think like the effects the management methods had on my blood sugar were greater than any of my preconceived notions so the the good results I got out of listening were like greater than well, then that your hate me not liking Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:09
I might call this episode hate Listen, but that's, that's not decided yet. Okay, so we're like what was your agency when you were I don't know 17 or 18.

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Melena 24:59
I'm not Not that bad. Technically, I think it was like 6.4 or something. So it wasn't bad, but like my time and range was 50 to 65%. Because I spent like the entire day going from the 40s to 250 and back.

Scott Benner 25:26
So you were one of those people who was tricking the system a little bit your, your time and range proves out that you're a one C might not be well earned, I guess, you know, like, or I don't know if well is the way to put it, but you might have been tricking the system a little bit by being low, so much, right. And then you bounce up. And so what was the first thing that you heard on the podcast that got you moving in the right direction?

Melena 25:53
Um, well, it's always kind of been like, I was not actually tricking the system because my doctor was one of the first doctors in like in our area, who looked more at Timon range versus HB one. See? So I kind of got a little bit of scolding at my appointments. I just like I was 17. I did not bother.

Scott Benner 26:22
You weren't listening when he was scolding, by the way also being scolded in German. Yes, yes. Which is it's, it's a harsher language. Does it feel scarier? Like, is there something that I could say to you in English? That would sound better that if it got said to you in German?

Melena 26:37
Um, I don't think so. But I mean, I'm just used to the language.

Scott Benner 26:44
Can we can we test it very quickly. I'll say I'll say something. And then you say it back to me. You say the same thing back to me. Let me think.

Melena 26:54
I'm supposed to say it in German. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 26:57
You can do that. Right. You speak German? Yes, I do. Okay, all right. So hold on. Molina, I need you to try harder to keep your blood sugar in range.

Melena 27:10
Okay, let me think how I'm gonna translate that. Scott to massage my understanding. And I'm Bledsoe County, Arkansas. That's Ohio.

Scott Benner 27:22
Okay, so I will let the people listening decide which one sounded harsher. But I was trying to be a little harsh. So okay, so I'm trying to imagine you're 17 years old, getting the you know, the riot act read to you about your sixth floor. But are you looking at the sixth floor and thinking, but this six four is good. Like, why are you yelling at me? Or did you understand why the doctor wasn't thrilled with it?

Melena 27:46
Well, I didn't understand why it wasn't for that. Because I was like thinking, Well, of course, the numbers go up and down. But like, the average is okay, I'm, I'm coming out on top at the end of the day. So why are you yelling at me, I did not get at that point that the fluctuation in blood sugars was just as bad if not worse than high blood sugar is very prominently

Scott Benner 28:12
binding stability is very, very important. That's why in the beginning, even finding stability at a higher number is valuable. And then you can start to, you know, kind of crank it down and bring it down a little bit at a time until you're till you're comfortable. So he's telling you, it's not quite right, you don't understand why it's not quite right, quite right. You find my podcast and you start imagining that it's possible. What did you attack first?

Melena 28:42
Um, well, the thing was, I was trying to lose weight at the time, because I had gained a little bit moving away from home. I think in the US, you call it like the freshman 15 or something, that's what they call it. And since I had a lot of lows during the day, I also kept eating extra calories. So I was trying to keep from crashing basically, and I think it's like, I don't know when you start saying it like in the podcast, but there's always this notion of if you never go high, you never go low. Right. So I was just basically starting to try to not get high and of course it ended since I wasn't pen at the time. So basically ended with starting to Pre-Bolus actually because I had been taught Pre-Bolus thing but I never actually use it because waiting 20 minutes for your meal. It's just it's it's a lot of time spent hungry. A lot of times so I can I kind of started implementing that and I had less highs, I had less lows, I started adjusting my Basal, then I kind of I had a point where I found out that with the I was injecting leavener. At the time, I was always going low in the middle of the night. So I tried to lower my dose, I couldn't quite adjust it. So I also made the decision to switch to a pump right around that time, okay. And as soon as I got on a pump with varying Basal rates, and Pre-Bolus ng being even easier, since it was only the push of a button, things started to actually get way more stable. And I started to notice that I had before having stable patches I had felt like, because all those hypose During the day, they were ruining my mood and my grades, I just hadn't realized it. And once I got rid of those and of all the ups and downs, I started actually feeling better. My mental health got better. So I just stuck to it.

Scott Benner 31:18
That's excellent. I'm really happy for you. I'm also very impressed that you figured it out at a younger age while you were in college, too. Is that something not uncommon for you? Are you a particularly mature person for your age?

Melena 31:33
Um, I guess I've kind of been I'm the youngest of five children.

Scott Benner 31:39
Oh, they stopped taking care of you years ago. It's been seven?

Melena 31:46
No, well, I am all my siblings are way older than me. So I was I was kind of like the last one left at home. And my parents were both working full time. So I was kind of on my own a lot, which I think makes you a bit more mature. And I mean, I moved out at 17, which is I don't know if that's common in the US. It's not quite common around here.

Scott Benner 32:14
To go to school, did you leave to go to school? Yes, yeah, that's about the age when it happens here. 17 or 18 When you're done with high school. But usually those kids then go to college and make stupid dumb decisions for two and a half years until the middle of their junior year. And then they look up and they're like, What am I doing? And then maybe they pull it together, you know, when they're 21 or so a little bit or begin to pull it together a little bit. But you made like big? You made big changes to your health care. And then you know, just what happened. It was It talked about it for another second again, I know you said you didn't feel well. How long did it take you to start feeling better? And how remarkable was the change.

Melena 32:59
Um, I think like as the first thing which made me feel better, were not going low at night. Because I I woke up in the middle of the night, I did not have like an real CGM. I had the Libra, which did not have alarm. So I basically I woke up from my low blood sugar I ate, then went back and went back to bed. So I had gotten, I don't know, I think the labor usually just read low, which was not quite accurate. So it must have been like the 50s or 40s. As I well I had that low blood sugar, I had interrupted sleep. Then I got up in the morning, I wish I was usually a bit higher than I should have been. Because as I said the Libra doesn't have alarms and i i woke up hungry in the middle of the night. Yeah. Um, and that's basically how I started my day. And also, like when you're in the library studying and you go low all the time. That's time you spent sitting there trying to read your books in which you basically don't learn anything because your brain can't process it. So that's just time off your day wasted.

Scott Benner 34:25
That's, that's, I think, a burden that people don't recognize right away, and then it has a way of compounding. And before you know it, you're lost. You know, a bad a bad episode turns into a bad morning turns into a bad day, bad week. And then before you know it, it seems normal. And then that's it. You're just you don't even know what's happening anymore. You just yeah, you're just lost in it.

Melena 34:53
Exactly. That's the thing that was my normal. I was not actively thinking about the fact that This was not okay. This was just regular wait to start my day regular way to go studying. I did not think about that this was an issue I could fix myself.

Scott Benner 35:15
I feel bad that everybody or for anybody that ends up feeling that way, like not only is this thing happening, but it's out of my control. That's and I think that it's a sentiment that gets passed around too. So you have to be careful when you're in the community, because you can find a number of people who are all stuck in the same moment. And then they start commiserating with each other. And then if you're watching from the outside, you can accept what they're saying, as the rule. And just oh, I guess this is what diabetes is going to be I'm gonna, I'm gonna get low in the middle the night I'm going to eat food and gain weight and feel badly. And that's what happened to me. And that's that, but I'm glad that you figured out that that didn't have to be the case. Did you share it with your parents? Did you like contact them? And you're like, Hey, I'm doing better? Or do you? Does that not even occur to you,

Melena 36:10
um, diabetes wasn't really a topic with my parents. By the time I moved out. Um, I, I mean, I just didn't really talk about my management. My the reports, which came back from my doctor were like, kind of okay, because as I said, the agencies were okay. And while I was moving out, my diabetes was not a topic that we really talked about. We basically, we hadn't talked about it since I was around 14, when I took up my own management. And I started talking to my parents about this when I was starting the process of getting pump. When I was saying, Hey, look at this, look at these numbers. I'm actually, I'm doing real good. I, maybe I've also kind of had a notion of, look how good I'm doing this. You never did as good as

Scott Benner 37:13
you think maybe they were. Maybe they were upset, knowing that they couldn't do it as well.

Melena 37:21
I don't know. I mean, I'm the one thing I have to say is, when I was a child, my dad tried to manage he gave everything. He just overshot the runway a little bit. And the results were in really good. So as a kid, I had like a onesies and eights around that. So my parents, I think, during my teen years, they always saw that I had like the sixth something. Everyone see, and they thought it was okay. It was bad. And also, I don't think I would have been responsive if they would have tried to talk about my management.

Scott Benner 38:06
Okay. Because why do you think?

Melena 38:11
Um, well, it's kind of been like, before I started managing on my own, like, as I said, all of my siblings are way older. So they used to babysit me. And to this day, they tell stories about how they were constantly getting called by my father. And he never said hello to them on the phone. The first thing he always said to them was, what's your blood sugar?

Scott Benner 38:42
Your dad was worried about you and that made your siblings feel like he didn't care about them?

Melena 38:47
Well, it made them kind of feel like I was the most cared about. I mean, I was also the small child. So that's just part of the issue. But it also kind of made me think that like, my diabetes was the thing about me with caring.

Scott Benner 39:10
I see, too, he didn't talk to you about anything other than that, either.

Melena 39:14
Yeah, gotcha. Not a lot. I mean, he was he was working full time. So basically, he called during the day and he did my nighttime blood sugar checks. That was the most time we spent together during the week. I understand.

Scott Benner 39:31
It's the Yeah, I mean, he probably had no time and the little bit of time he did have he was putting towards you trying to help you be healthy. And yes,

Melena 39:43
I mean, he had the best intentions just like um, I feel like in some parts, the child which actually had the diabetes fell a bit short.

Scott Benner 39:56
You felt you felt like you weren't pulling like doing what you should be doing? thing. What do you mean by that?

Melena 40:03
I mean, like, like my DF diabetes was the first issue on his mind. Every other thing concerning me came second or third, I see

Scott Benner 40:13
where your parents much older. By the time you were, like, how old are they now?

Melena 40:19
Um, my parents are in the mid 60s.

Scott Benner 40:23
Yeah. So my son is a year older than you. And I'm 50. And my wife's like, I don't know how old she was, like 48 or something. I should probably know, I could do the math, but it's not important. So your parents are 15 years older than I am? Yeah. I don't know if I'm young. Compared to my children's age, I think I am a little bit I can remember going to school events for my kid, and the other parents in the room always felt like five years older than me, maybe are a little more than that. But nobody felt 15 years older than me. So your parents just had one good night. 15 years later, huh?

Melena 41:02
Well, all I'm gonna say about this is my eldest sister is 26 years older than me.

Scott Benner 41:09
Oh, my gosh. Your mom get drunk at a wedding when she was like 45 or something like that you think something like that? Maybe?

Melena 41:21
I know the story of how I came to be just private. Leave it at that. Yeah. And alcohol was involved.

Scott Benner 41:34
There we go. I'm imagining a beer stein, and a dress that I've only ever seen on television. And then before you know it, you're over there with your diabetes. And your brothers and sisters are like, where did she even come from? They must have felt like they bought a dog like too late in life. Like, Why didn't mom and dad get this? Not that you you understand? You understand? Yeah. Okay, well, that doesn't sound like an easy way to grow up. But yet, you seem very upbeat and proactive. Why did this not make you sad and resentful?

Melena 42:09
Um, I mean, I think it did for a little while. So as I said, like, I started managing completely on my own at like age 1314. And I started like, I'm just calling it the juice box method around like 18. So in those years, between I, um, I was managing, as I said, but I was not talking about the topic. I wasn't talking about diabetes with my parents. As I said, I tried to think about my management as little as possible. So I barely even ever adjusted like my Basal doses, even though I was still growing. Um, so I think it kind of kind of made me not resentful towards like my parents. It made me resentful towards the disease. So yeah, I was, I was just managing, I wasn't thinking about it. And I sometimes find myself now that I know all the things I know now, looking back at those times, and thinking like, how did I even survive this?

Scott Benner 43:36
Vicki? Got lucky a couple of times?

Melena 43:40
I don't know. I think so. Yeah, um, I had, like, issues with eating, I would call it like something going in the direction of like binge eating, where I would just put in 30 units, open the kitchen cupboard and eat whatever I could find. And so that 30 units was based on nothing. And I think all of those things that could have gone wrong,

Scott Benner 44:13
and Okay. Could have just not been hungry at some point and stopped eating and had way too much insulin or just overshot. It definitely talked about that a little bit. Is that a? Is that a feeling of? I don't want to think about having diabetes, what I eat makes me think about diabetes. So I will throw in so much insulin that I can eat with abandon, and then I'll get to pretend for a little while I don't have it, or is that is that not what was happening?

Melena 44:45
Well, I think what you're implying, that's way too conscious. I wasn't thinking about the diabetes at all. thing was, I of course, with with my parents always trying to manage me i I also got into fights with them regarding like, eating candy and stuff when I was younger I think every diabetic child does at some point. And so when I was like, all the I could buy my own food, I had complete control of what I ate. And I just wanted to indulge, so the diabetes was like, not the important part about it was actually the food. Like, I just wanted to have all these these things, and whatever happened to the disease didn't matter at that point.

Scott Benner 45:38
Is there any other autoimmune issues with you or your anyone in your family?

Melena 45:44
Um, with me currently, no. My family's got issues with hypothyroidism.

Scott Benner 45:52
Oh, and you've gotten away from it somehow.

Melena 45:55
I've gotten away from it so far. Yeah. Interesting. Good

Scott Benner 45:58
for you. Brothers and sisters, moms and dads. It spread everywhere.

Melena 46:04
I own it's coming from my mom's side kind of guessing. Gotcha. Yeah, so neither of my parents actually do but it's been on my mom's side of the family. And one of my sisters and one of our brothers both have it. So. Yeah, gotcha. Well, we're guessing it's, it's one side.

Scott Benner 46:24
I see. Okay. You did you decide at some point. You kept saying pump, but I don't know, what pumps are available in Germany?

Melena 46:35
Um, well, I mean, most of the pumps which are available in the US are and actually some more because some European fact manufacturers are. All around the pump I got when I was getting on a pump was actually tubeless. Um, it was it wasn't the Omnipod

Scott Benner 46:58
sorry. No, you have to be sorry with it like gipsa med or something like that? Or is that what it's called?

Melena 47:05
The calm company was called metronome. I think it still exists, but the pump has been pulled from the market.

Scott Benner 47:17
Hmm. I'm trying to find it. I'm not having a lot of luck. Let's see.

Melena 47:29
I think it's spelled m e di, T. Are you?

Scott Benner 47:36
Alright, I might have it. Oh, was it like green and white?

Melena 47:45
Yes, exactly. Two parts.

Scott Benner 47:48
Interesting. Look at that. How long did you have that for?

Melena 47:52
Only a year.

Scott Benner 47:55
The company disappeared

Melena 47:57
or, you know, the company had a, they lost a legal battle here in Germany and they had to pull it from the German market. So I had to get another pump and also, but by the time I had been on a pump for a year, I was trying to get into looping so I was kind of happy. I got to choose a new pump.

Scott Benner 48:23
Did you loop with Omni pod or with Medtronic? Neither. Which one did you use?

Melena 48:30
I'm using a Donna RS

Scott Benner 48:33
look at you like you live on a different planet spelling for me.

Melena 48:39
As Dana like the first name, okay. And the letters are S

Scott Benner 48:49
Oh, it looks a lot like oh, I say. Yeah. Oh, it's available like in North Korea. Or excuse me, excuse me. I'm misreading. It's a Korean pump. It's a Korean Tom Victorian pump. Yeah. Oh, look at that. It's cool. I've never seen that one before. Dana. And so you're using that to loop with? Exactly. Are you using the same loop algorithm I'm using are using a different one.

Melena 49:15
I'm using the Android version.

Scott Benner 49:19
Android version. Okay. Yeah. What's your experience?

Melena 49:25
Um, I think loop is kind of fascinating. I think I wrote it in my email. I'm on the faster version of human clock. So I'm Jeff insulin. And I'm basically I'm using loop without manually giving bonuses or entering carbs as long as the total amount of carbs is below 50.

Scott Benner 49:59
Say that Again, for me, I'm sorry.

Melena 50:03
I'm not manually Bolus saying or entering carbs, as long as like the total amount of carbs in the meal is below 50.

Scott Benner 50:11
So you just are you telling it you're eating or it just it sees and handles it.

Melena 50:17
I'm telling it to a lowered target blood sugar to 72 for, I think two hours usually. And, well, I don't actually know what the algorithm per se us, but there is some kind of programming going on. So the corrections get stronger. And it usually catches up to all of the carbs.

Scott Benner 50:44
That's kind of brilliant. That's a different way to manipulate it, who taught you that? I

Melena 50:49
mean, the internet, the internet. Basically, there are a lot of like people working on Android loop in Germany. And of course, there's a Facebook group and then website where they talk about their new ideas. And when language F became available, in Germany, lots of people were like thinking, well, this insulin is so fast, maybe if we're not eating the most sugary stuff, we can get this to a like, closed, closed mode loop. And they started trying, and it was just kind of, I don't know, it was kind of following as people were trying, like to eat different meals and seeing what the original algorithm did that with it with a fast acting, ultra fast acting insulin inside. And once enough people I had posted the results, and they were looking good that just, I don't know, I kind of started trying it. And I think like the limit of 50 carbs kind of varies between people. So I say I need to do a manual Bolus, if I'm exceeding 50 carbs. From some people, it's more for some people, it's less Gotcha. It also does, of course, not work with every kind of food, like the time it takes for a Dexcom to measure the interstitial fluid would be way too long for something like Syrah.

Scott Benner 52:31
Okay, what I'm seeing here about that insulin, I was poking around on the internet a little bit, it seems like if you're a person who already Pre-Bolus is with a different insulin, you're not going to see a big difference with this. But that it might eliminate your need for such a long Pre-Bolus. But you're but you're saying you see it right around 50 carbs, if you go over 50 carbs, it's not fast enough to catch up. Even though you're setting that lower target.

Melena 53:01
It's not fast now to catch up. Just using loop. Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:05
gotcha. Right. But but still just setting the target lower is kind of brilliant. It's almost the it's the algorithm version of setting a Temp Basal increase overtop of a meal. Like you're adding you're adding extra insulin or you're adding extra emphasis, you're telling the loop, like be more aggressive, I don't want to be I don't know what what is your usual target for loop?

Melena 53:29
I think it's like 90 to 85.

Scott Benner 53:33
And then instead you go to eat, you just tell it tried to make me 72 How long before you eat? How long before you eat, you have to tell it that.

Melena 53:43
Um, I usually put in the target like half an hour before you do

Scott Benner 53:48
your Pre-Bolus thing with the target instead of Pre-Bolus thing with insulin, and it's taking care of it's taking care of putting in the insulin because even if you're like, like, if you're 90 At that moment, it's going to immediately get more aggressive trying to get you to 72.

Melena 54:01
Exactly, but the difference between like setting the target and doing a Pre-Bolus is if I don't manage to eat 30 minutes later, for example, in a restaurant or something. Nothing's going to happen below 70

Scott Benner 54:18
It's still only shooting for 70. Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. I saw today Artem was at school today. I have no idea what happened. But her blood sugar was just chugging along in the 80s. It had been like that for like, eight hours. And she didn't need anything. But I don't know what happened. But she suddenly went to an arrow straight up. And I think she got to like 130 was still an up arrow. And I looked and the algorithm was like, was like hitting her with insulin it was making like so I use the version of loop that allows bolusing and like it was given it was Bolus near like a unit and a half at a time that it wait a little longer and gave her more. And I'm actually looking at it now because I never investigated it. But you know, she was while she was 74. And then suddenly 8297 115 129, like over a half an hour, but she never got above 134 and 850. An hour later, she was 108. And an hour and a half later, she was 85. It just is. I don't know what happened to her. I don't know why that happened. But just imagine if that happened on a regular pump, or with MDI, like, who knows where her blood sugar would have stopped? Probably, I'm gonna guess like, 240 Maybe. So probably these algorithms are crazy. Cool. I love him. Really, really.

Melena 55:57
Now imagine the reason her blood sugar started to climb was was something she'd eaten. And Luke just basically handled that on its own. That's kind of what I'm going with. Yeah,

Scott Benner 56:08
no, I've seen I've seen like us, like, Forget insulin, you know, completely. And it'll still hold her. You know, unless it's something crazy, like you said, like cereal or something, bananas, but I meant bananas like crazy, not bananas, like a banana is something like that. Still, it can stop or before, like 200, and at least gives you time to react to it and go, Oh, God, we didn't put it inside and fix it. You know? It's really cool. Where did you hear about looping from?

Melena 56:41
Um, so I'm actually I think the first kind of contact I had with Luke was on the podcast when you started about on starting moving, um, and I just kind of thought like, first I thought it was like an iOS thing. And I'm an Android user. I'm not using any Apple device besides airports.

Scott Benner 57:09
You're very upset at Apple, we get talking about that later. That's okay.

Melena 57:13
And then I kind of thought, well, it must be in mostly American thing, because I saw all of these people using like, the old pertronic pumps. And then I kind of started looking around on like Facebook, for German groups, and what they were saying. And I found like the German loop groups and the instruct instructions to build loop. They're also available in German. So I knew there must be people around here doing that. And so yeah, I kind of got into that through mostly Facebook.

Scott Benner 57:54
It's amazing that Facebook can be valuable. Yeah, actually. That is really, it's really terrific. Yeah, and it made me happy because I think there are people inside of like, the original loop core of people who I don't think they like me very much. And they, I got your loop into Germany. So you couldn't do that. So there you go. That's all I just wanted to say that real quick. I, I don't know what the problem is those people who have problems, but I love that thing. And I'm happy to like sing its praises. And I don't know what their issue is. I think maybe I I might have made it pretty popular by being on the podcast. And who knows, I'd be I'd be guessing. Bullying if I if I had to guess and I don't want to. I don't want to guess I could be completely wrong. I don't like to pretend I know how people feel. I just hear stories. And they hurt my feelings. That's all. That's all. You've hurt my feeling is I'm gonna lash out if we can consider this that. So how long have you been doing that now?

Melena 59:02
Um, I think I started a little bit over a year ago with loop like in general. And not really manually Bolus saying like in February or March of this year.

Scott Benner 59:21
I'm gonna try that by the way. I seriously am like the next time I can try something I'd be like, let's set a temporary target right and see how that goes. That's really cool. I love how much autonomy the The program gives you, you know how you're really able to make, I mean, all these all the other ones from companies just, I'm going to imagine are not going to give you that much freedom to be changing settings like that. But it's cool. It gives you a different way to think about the insulin which I think ends up being the most important thing is that because you could accomplish that with a regular pump if you wanted to. Yeah, you could do a Temp Basal increase a half an hour before you eat Make it significant enough that it would use enough insulin to cover those carbs. Yeah, you can't, there's no reason why you couldn't do that. And like you said, as long as we're not too harsh or too much in quantity, it should be able to stay ahead of it. I'm thinking it through while while you're talking.

Melena 1:00:17
Yeah. But there's also like, there's not much thought process going into it. Like if I, if I had to set a manual basil, I have to set that up, then it probably would not be enough to cover a meal. So I'd have to build us. And with using loop to cover meals is just one temporary target set, like around 30 minutes, doesn't matter if it's 20 Doesn't matter if it's 40. And you just start eating and in the best and, honestly, in the regular case, for me, I don't have to think about a meal another time.

Scott Benner 1:00:58
Well, what do you what kind of eating Do you normally do? Like, what are you eating?

Melena 1:01:04
Um, I, I'd say I eat quite quite regular food. So I do have some of my high carb meals. But as I said, I'm putting in a little bit of a bonus for those because like, most Italian food or anything like that won't be covered entirely. And, well, I try to stay around like those 40 grams of carbs at a meal. If I'm like working or doing something where I don't want to spend time looking at my phone and looking at the numbers I'm trying to keep with like the 50 gram goal. But overall, I'd say I eat a bread pretty regular diet.

Scott Benner 1:01:52
Okay. vegetables, bread, meat, cheese, except Yes,

Melena 1:01:56
yes. Yes.

Scott Benner 1:02:00
Excellent. That's exciting. That must be incredibly exciting for you. Honestly, right, like, after how everything's been for so many years, and how much effort you had to put into it. And when you were guessing, and, and going through those, those other issues? Is that, um, I let me ask the question a different way, if someone came along and took it from you, what would it mean, if a Health Authority stop loop from being available or something like that? Like, what would you? How would that impact you?

Melena 1:02:30
Um, overall, I don't think it would like impact, my blood sugar's a lot, maybe would even make them a bit better. Because if I were to manage entirely manually, again, most of those small food spikes which need to happen in order for you to react would not happen. But overall, I think there would be a period spanning some months of real intense, thinking about things once again, and trying to figure out and maybe I would have a bit less, more bit less variety in the kind of food I ate, just because trying to keep things easier. And I think if someone stopped my loop right now, I would manage but it diabetes would become a way bigger part of my daily life once more. And yeah, just I don't want to think about people stuffing.

Scott Benner 1:03:39
I'm happy that you share that though. Because that just I don't know, I'm interested in, in what what effects it would have. So you're saying you know, went off about it, you'd be able to pull it together and manage your blood sugars, but in it would take time away from your life, it would change your relationship with food. And those things are not positive. Right? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. I could

Melena 1:04:06
live without it. I just wouldn't want to.

Scott Benner 1:04:09
I understand. Now I worry about sometimes I worry that, you know, one day the FDA is just gonna be like, No, can't do that. And they wouldn't be able to. I don't see how they could stop the algorithm from being available right online. So then that would mean they'd have to pressure the hardware manufacturers do not I mean, if they were looking for a way to put a stop to it, they couldn't stop the sharing of the algorithm. They'd have to go after the companies. I don't know how they would do that. Or if they would, saying that's what I want.

Melena 1:04:44
I'm kind of thinking as you say that, like, in the US, you can only use like, old Omni pots and old latronnik pumps to do right.

Scott Benner 1:04:57
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, the Omni pod they arrows, pods work. And yeah, there's the Medtronic i. And then there's another version of like an algorithm that I'm not as familiar with. I'm not sure what worked for them. But I think it's Medtronic, for sure. And there's also not many pumps left here. There's metrics.

Melena 1:05:15
That's what I was thinking. So like, Isn't kind of the hardware running out.

Scott Benner 1:05:22
Medtronic on the pod, and then there's tandem, but you can't loop with tandem. So yeah, I just I don't know, like I'm trying to imagine. I mean, it's being, as far as I can tell, so far, nobody's making a problem about it. But it's just it's one of the things that always sticks in the back of my head, like, we've, we're using this thing. And you know, it's tenuous, right, it's being managed by people online, sometimes they make additions and subtractions to it, and they, you know, they fix it, or whatever that means. And then there's, you know, the companies that make products, and this isn't how they mean for them to be used. And so far, nothing has come of that. But that's the part I worry about. Anyway, I like worrying about things. That's one of the that's one of the things that pops into my head. But I love it, I hope nobody touches it, they should all just leave it the hell alone. Let you be

Melena 1:06:17
Sorry, I interrupted you.

Scott Benner 1:06:19
I want them to let you be happy.

Melena 1:06:23
Well, um, I think I'm gonna stay happy cuz the company might pump us from, um, they released a new model this year, which is has already been integrated into Android loop. So I should be safe. Like for the next six or six to seven years, hardware wise.

Scott Benner 1:06:46
I can remember at the beginning of all this, for people were scavenging old pumps that were able to be looped, and they were buying them online from people and people were finding them in drawers and giving them away and stuff. And I don't want it to come back to that. I think this is a pretty, pretty fair balance. So and yeah, and then you've got your aquarium pump. So you're all set?

Melena 1:07:12
Well, I sometimes find myself thinking whenever I see one of those posts, like, Hey, I found an old Medtronic in a drawer from my cousin or something. Like how many of these old Medtronic pumps have been around before they got pulled? Yeah. seems to never end.

Scott Benner 1:07:32
I know, there's always somebody that finds one somewhere. So pretty fascinating. I think. If you came here, you know, you'd find find some on the pods and boxes in a couple of different places. So it's hilarious. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about?

Melena 1:07:51
Um, I don't think so. Yeah, I think I'm good.

Scott Benner 1:07:58
Did you have a good time? Yeah, I did. Um, is it not strange for you that I'm like, more than twice as old as you are? That doesn't matter to you?

Melena 1:08:09
No, actually, like the strangest feeling is like hearing your talk and hearing your voice and kind of getting it into my head that I'm supposed to respond. Because I'm so used to hearing your talk. And I'm like, okay, he's talking. What? Why is that why now is oh, I shouldn't be talking now.

Scott Benner 1:08:30
I think as long as you don't start answering your headphones, when I'm not really with you, I think that'll be fine. I do I do understand that I understand it, because I've heard it from a number of people that they'll say like, I'll, we'll get done. And I'll be like, how was that for you? And they're like, it was very strange to hear you talking and that I had to respond. And I was like, okay, so I try to make people comfortable. You seem like you're comfortable. Are you up? I am very cool,

Melena 1:08:55
though. I mean, I was kind of worried. This is my second language after all. Um, but I think I've expressed myself quite well. So I didn't articulate myself quite quite well.

Scott Benner 1:09:10
I thought you did. And I didn't hear you. Like, there was one time where you said like, I have to think about how I want to say this. But other than that, like, I didn't think you had any thought to translation issues. I thought you did. Good. Thank you. I've spoken to a lot of people who this isn't their English isn't their first language. And that's the, that's what I've learned mostly is that they spend time, like, we don't always have the same words. And so you have to rephrase things or say them differently, so that they mean something similar. And you can hear people get caught up once in a while trying to find it. And I don't know what's happening this week. But I've recorded with a guy yesterday I recorded with a Frenchman. And today you I think I'm making my way through Europe this week.

Melena 1:09:55
So well. Maybe someone from the Netherlands be next,

Scott Benner 1:10:00
it would be nice if people would reach out. I'll tell you, let me tell you where the podcast is the most popular like top 10. us first, then Canada, then Australia, and Australia and Canada sometimes go back and forth. Like sometimes the downloads in Australia will be Canada, vice versa. Then it's United Kingdom, Germany, New Zealand, Ireland, Sweden, Belgium and Norway. And I'm always interested that it's never like, Isn't Norway, one of the places where like every other person has type one diabetes? Is that what I'm thinking of Hold on a second, Norway? Type One, there's a place. Oh, there's a place over there. Because I don't really understand the map that well, where like, type one diabetes is just in abundance. And yet those people haven't found the podcast yet. I might have to go over there and do a tour, I'm going to find out exactly where that is, and stand in the center of town and talk about Basal insulin until people start paying attention or something like that.

Melena 1:11:00
Doing some on site advertising.

Scott Benner 1:11:02
Yeah, right, exactly. I'll get out ahead of it. Hey, when are you done College? Now? How much longer do

Melena 1:11:07
you have? Um, I'll be done in the spring?

Scott Benner 1:11:11
Oh, that's excellent. And do you have a job to jump into? Or is that what you're trying to figure out now?

Melena 1:11:16
Um, that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out. Now. If I'm like, I'll be done with my bachelor's in spring. And currently, I'm figuring out whether I want to work afterwards or if I'm going to start my masters.

Scott Benner 1:11:32
Okay. All right. Are you leaning in one way or the other?

Melena 1:11:35
I'm currently I'm thinking about keeping, keeping on studying. So doing my masters.

Scott Benner 1:11:42
Gotcha. Well, you're gonna figure out how people think and help them. That's your goal.

Melena 1:11:47
Well, kind of Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:49
Yeah. You're not gonna help anybody? Nobody can?

Melena 1:11:54
Probably not.

Scott Benner 1:11:57
But I guess the endeavor and the value is the trying, right, like trying to trying to get people to see things that they don't see.

Melena 1:12:06
Yeah, I think I think the one thing you can help people with is making them aware of the way they think and where there might be mistakes. I mean, that's kind of what you're doing. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. You're talking to people about how they think about their diabetes management and then trying to find their mistakes and how they think about it, why their results don't match with their effort they put in?

Scott Benner 1:12:34
Molina, you really understand me on a different level? Don't you? Go ahead. You do, don't you? You see what I'm doing, don't you? I kind of do you think everybody knows?

Melena 1:12:49
I think most people would listen to

Scott Benner 1:12:52
I'm not trying to hide it. I just yeah, I'm I'm, I'm definitely doing that. I am. I am. Absolutely. I think that it's unfair to put people into a situation like this, and then ask them to not only figure out the situation, but figure out the way that their brain works and overcome the things that are stopping them that you can't, I mean, by the time we fix that, it'll be too late, you know, so I put things out there in a way where that becomes, I don't know how I'm gonna put it, where the information about handling your diabetes becomes the thing you're willing to vote for, you know what I mean? So you hear it, and you hear people's real honest lives with it, you can believe that it works. It gets mirrored through my personal experiences, that should be enough to get somebody to be interested, then they can kind of put it together in ways that worked for them, give it a shot, see it work, believing it, keep going that eventually that turns into like you said, you know, not much effort to keep blood sugar's where you want. And then that's it, then I'm done with you. And you can keep listening for the stories. And, and then we'll get somebody new again. But I didn't know you just sound like you're inside of my head while you're talking. You're freaking me out.

Melena 1:14:17
Um, well, I don't know, I wasn't used to getting a compliment. I mean, you were basically complimenting yourself, but complimented me.

Scott Benner 1:14:29
You have the whole thing, right? This is amazing. You really do get me. No, you just, I say it all the time in a different way. Like you agree with me. So I like you.

Melena 1:14:46
Well, I mean, as I've said previously, people don't even need to like you to understand your ideas

Scott Benner 1:14:54
matter. And there are some people like that, by the way, and I've received their emails and it's fine with me. Don't worry. I I just got I just got one recently again. Alright, we'll end with this. Let me find it for you hold on a second crack. crack me up, please, I don't want a bunch of these though you'll kill me inside. But this one, if I get it once in a while it's okay. Let's see if I can find it. Looking at reviews,

Melena 1:15:19
but I remember like you talking about this while I was still kind of like hate listening, that there's an episode where you say like, Oh, I get those people who absolutely hate me once in a while they send the emails that will say like, Well, no, I'm not sending one if I'm just one of many.

Scott Benner 1:15:40
hosts can talk a lot about himself versus interviewing guests, but can have great content. I love that one. There's one back a couple of years ago that basically just says I don't like that guy at all. But it's a really good podcast and my blood sugar's are better. And that I'm laughing about it. But not everybody can like me. But I'm happy that the podcast is valuable enough that even if I'm not somebody who you would choose to listen to for your entertainment, it's still worth listening to. Like, I think that's great. All right, because I can't, I mean, try to imagine if I tried to be somebody who everyone would like, that would be irritating because it wouldn't be real. I would just basically say nothing, have no opinions, and then blurt out stuff about diabetes, and you wouldn't listen to that. So yeah, I know. Everybody doesn't like me. It's okay. I'm okay with it. Well, I just don't want everybody

Melena 1:16:41
know, like you. I've listened to like, not all of the episodes, but like, 500.

Scott Benner 1:16:47
You've listened to like, 500. Thank you. Yeah.

Melena 1:16:50
And I mean, I'm not talking to you directly. So

Scott Benner 1:16:54
I really do. Yeah, okay. So tell people. You love me now. Right? Well, let's put it this on the fly. Let's put a million let's be more fair, you, me and your data in a robot, the robot starts to sink. We gotta throw someone off. So that the robot doesn't think who leaves me your dad. You but I love the pause. You were always gonna say me, but I love how long you paused. I appreciate that very much. Thank you. All right.

Melena 1:17:28
That's an experienced sailor. I'd like to have on a boat.

Scott Benner 1:17:34
Plus, you could just let them listen to the podcast if you need his help. So I've done it enough now. I mean, it's all here. Right? Molina like Pete. People. You listen. It gets easier, right? It does. Yeah. Oh, that's sweet. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you understanding me and laughing along with me too. I really, I had a great time talking to you. And I'm really pleased that you came on I thank you for taking the time. I know it's later in the evening where you are and you must be hungry and trying to get your evening going. So thank you very much. That's okay. Thank you for having me on. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juice box. I'm also going to thank Dexcom and remind you to check out the Dexcom g six@dexcom.com. Forward slash juice box. And last but not least, Molina for coming on and hate sharing her story. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#769 Heather's Kin

Heather has type 1 diabetes.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 769 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's episode features Heather who has type one diabetes as does everyone else she knows pretty much at least everyone she's related to well, not everyone, but a lot of people. You'll see. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you are a person living with type one diabetes, who is a US resident, or you are a person who is the caregiver of someone living with type one diabetes, also US resident, go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and complete the survey. When you do you'll be helping yourself you'll be helping me and people with type one diabetes, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. You know the answers to every question they're going to ask their very basic questions about your health. Specifically about type one diabetes, you'll be able to answer them with no trouble takes fewer than 10 minutes it's completely HIPAA compliant and absolutely anonymous. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is brought to you by us med get your diabetes supplies from us med start now by calling 888-721-1514 or by going to us med.com Ford slash juicebox. And us med has a new product update that I'm going to tell you more about during the ad but I'm just gonna give you a little taste right now. FreeStyle Libre three at US med you can get it now. This episode is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Yes, indeed, you can use the same blood glucose meter is ardent and get the same great results at contour next one.com forward slash juice box.

Heather 2:14
My name is Heather and I live in northern suburbs of Chicago. And I am a type one myself, my brother is type one and two of my three children are type one.

Scott Benner 2:24
See already. Now we know why you're here. Do you think at this point, Heather, do you think people listen to the podcast and think like everybody who has type one diabetes has like so many other people in their family? Or do they realize that just once in a while people like you reach out? I always wonder that.

Heather 2:41
You know what? I don't know, because I haven't run into it. I mean, I know several singleton type ones, but I have I've yet to run into multiple family members like personally, like I see them on, you know, podcasts or hear my podcasts or I see them on, like Facebook page things. But personally, I've never run into anybody and our hours is a little bit different because my brother was diagnosed when he was seven, and he's now 50. And then we thought we were home free because nobody else had it. And then all of a sudden my son years later was diagnosed. Then I was diagnosed that my daughter was diagnosed so

Unknown Speaker 3:21
Oh, no. Bizarre. So the brother 43 years ago. Yeah, he was diagnosed. I don't want to show off, but

Scott Benner 3:30
I don't know. 40 years ago. What are we talking about here? This ad? I don't know. I don't want to. I'm embarrassing myself. I feel like it was the late 70s.

Unknown Speaker 3:41
Yes. Was it? Yes, it was.

Scott Benner 3:45
Yeah, that was amazing. Okay, now, your son, who is how old now?

Heather 3:51
He is now. 24. He

Unknown Speaker 3:52
was diagnosed at 1410 years ago. 10 years ago. 2012. Up? Hmm, that was

Heather 4:01
I was I was I was diagnosed eight years ago at age 40. Oh, okay. And I was actually misdiagnosed as type two. And then I had a terrible doctor. And then I started, they put me on insulin. And it wasn't working. And then I sort of did my own thing because I was you know, I knew how to take I didn't do anything drastic, but I was like, I'm gonna take a little more insulin. I'm gonna do this. Oh, I apologize.

Scott Benner 4:36
Wait, wait. I have a question though. Like, right off the bat. Your brother's had diabetes for I mean, listen to eight years ago, your brother's had diabetes for almost 40 years, right? And then or 35, whatever. It doesn't matter how long time is when my point and then your son gets type one diabetes? How did they think you have type two?

Heather 4:56
Well, because I had a terrible doctor. I tried to tell him I'm like look at Send my family. And he, I guess I had I have lost weight since then. So I guess they looked at my body weight and it wasn't like gigantic, I was probably 175 for I mean, I could have lost the plot some weight. You know, I wasn't obese by any means. But I think they just looked, I don't know, this doctor was terrible. And so they put me on Metformin. First I didn't work, then they put me on insulin. That sort of work, but not really, I still had really high sugars. And then I sort of started doing my own thing. And then all of a sudden, I was the same ratios as my son, and I'm like, time to get a new doctor. And I did and they did all the tests. And sure enough, So lo and behold,

Scott Benner 5:36
the first doctor wouldn't do the testing like C peptide, stuff like that. antibody testing,

Heather 5:43
he, I guess he never did. And I didn't really know what to ask for to tell you the truth. Because, you know, when my son was diagnosed, it was so cut and dry that I didn't know about all the blood tests that needed to be done. You know, he was definitely type one. I mean, he was a dk egg.

Scott Benner 5:56
How long did this go for you? Well,

Heather 6:01
I think it was like a year and a half. Really? Okay. Yeah, I think I mean, I had sugars that were like two and 300. I was pretty much always that. I'm surprised I don't have any, like lasting, you know, damage of any sort. I think it was just hanging on. I think I was taking enough insulin and enough Metformin, and maybe I was still a little bit honeymooning to just keep myself afloat.

Scott Benner 6:26
Did you lose a lot of weight during that time?

Heather 6:29
I didn't, then that weird. I wished I did. I lost a little bit, but not a ton. I lost weight after the fact. After you got after I got an insulin while I was exercising more, I mean, I was working at it. But yeah, it was just was a very bizarre situation. And, you know, I talked to my doctor now who I love. And she's like, and I remember getting her and I told her without being super mean. I'm like, you know, this doctor who is in her office? And she's like, Yeah, he's really good if you have type two, but he really doesn't know about type one. So I thought, Well, that makes sense. So

Scott Benner 7:05
you weren't seeing? You weren't seeing an endocrinologist with the first doctor?

Heather 7:10
The first doctor was an endocrinologist. Yes. But he but he, according to this second doctor that I got, after I did some research because with our, or I don't know, if it's insurance, I think it's just the hospital. You can only switch once. I think you could probably find it. But when I was looking for a new doctor, they're like, make sure you get the one you want. Because you can only switch one time within I don't know how many years. So I did some research. And I found a really good one. But yes, he was an endocrinologist. But he was just one that I because I was in the hospital for something else. I had a really bad infection. And I had some high sugars in the hospital. And they're like, Oh, this is normal, blah, blah, blah, here, test your blood sugar once a week. So that's, that's how it started. And I started doing that. And I'm like, wow, this is really high. I don't think I'm supposed to be this way. And then when I called my primary care, they're like, Here, go see this doctor. And so I got sort of thrown with this one original doctor who didn't, excuse me didn't know what he was doing. For me personally. Maybe he was wonderful with other things, but not in my case

Scott Benner 8:08
in Chicago to like, I see. I feel like that would be how you think you could find a decent doctor. So yeah, he was

Heather 8:15
also he's quite elderly. I mean, I didn't know. You know, I just thought you need anybody. I guess I was more concerned about my son. You know, I'm always more concerned about other people than myself. So I think I was just like, Okay, I'll just do what they say. But I'm busy with everybody else making sure they're okay.

Scott Benner 8:31
And by the at that point, your son basically had it for six years already. Right? Yeah.

Heather 8:36
So I mean, I wasn't really taking care of him anymore. I, I still have a little bit of a power power over diabetes. Like I like to control. I try and control every part of it. But he had kind of told me Skedaddle mom leave me alone at that point, that just just in general taken care of everybody else. And I thought I was taking care of myself by going to an endocrinologist. But you know, I wasn't taking care of myself, because I wasn't really advocating it first for myself, because I didn't really know any better.

Scott Benner 9:06
Okay, did you have any of those feelings? Like, I'm not doing a good job managing my type two diabetes feelings?

Heather 9:13
Oh, yeah. I mean, because when my son was diagnosed, I mean, he was I think he's 14 Yeah, 14 when he was diagnosed, so he pretty much took over right away, you know, he's like, I'm fine. And of course, being around my brother, you know, I was devastated. But my son's like, it's fine. Because he saw it, you know, uncle, his uncle was totally fine and, you know, lived a good life and, but I still had some control issues over it. So when I had to deal with myself, my sugars were high and I couldn't get them under control. I was like, What is going on? And I did so much research and so much this and that's when finally they put me on insulin. And that's when I started doing my own thing. You know, they, I was on Lantis first and that didn't work. And then they put me on human log with Volantis and I think I was on a very short a small dose. I can't really I remember but then I started opening it little by little. And then all of a sudden, like I said, I was one to 10 just like my son. Yes. Like, look at that. Now my blood sugars are good.

Scott Benner 10:10
So I have a little bit of insight from your note. But, you know, to go back to your brother and I don't want to talk about somebody who's not here too much, but I think there's a lot of context here. He's diagnosed a very long time ago, you know, obviously, managing and regular an MPH, but he never stopped doing that. Is that right?

Heather 10:28
Never stopped taking insulin No, never stopped

Scott Benner 10:30
a management system that was just regular an MPH and so he didn't modernize his insulin or did he eventually?

Heather 10:36
No, he I think he has I think he's on human log and something else. No, but he still only takes, but he still only takes a shot in the morning and a shot at night and pokes his finger. He has no technology, he has no desire. He doesn't even have pens. He uses the actual syringes and the vial.

Scott Benner 10:53
But I'm thinking, is that why diabetes looked kind of? I don't want to say easy, but I guess not very encumbering to you because he his interactions with it weren't really very frequent in front of people, I would imagine.

Heather 11:07
Maybe, maybe I but I think they just saw that. You know, he still had a great job. He still traveled all the time with his job, you know, he still had a full life. So nobody saw it as Hey, Oh, God can't do this. Or he can't do that. You know, we never saw any of that. And that's

Scott Benner 11:26
no one's diabetes. Yeah, no one's even aware of his health. They're just aware of like, he looks like he's doing the things you expect an adult to be doing.

Heather 11:33
Right. And everybody knew that he had diabetes, but and, you know, we knew that he would go into the bathroom before dinner and take a shot, you know, our family is very open, we just lift up our shirt and, you know, poker stomach or, you know, we two of us have pumps my daughter still MDI, but, you know, we're not shy at all. He's a little bit more shy. But you know, back in the day, it wasn't as common and, you know, it wasn't as easy to, you know, whip something out it out at dinner, you know, there was more to it, you know, for sure.

Scott Benner 12:00
So, when your son's diagnosed, then, I mean, did you ever think to manage the way your brother was managing or you went along with what? What was suggested to you

Heather 12:09
know, I just listened to the hospital, and what they said made more sense. And I started talking to my brother, I'm like, hey, you know, this is how they told us to do it. He's like, Nah, I'm fine. Like I I do just fine. I know when he can tell when he's high. And he's, he's amazing. Like, he's like, I think I'm high right now. I'm thinking probably this number and he'll test and he's pretty dang close. And they'll say, I think I'm low right now. And he'll pick a number and he's pretty dang close. I don't know how he does it. Do you

Scott Benner 12:39
mean, do you know what he do? You know what that means? We say he's fine. Like, do you really know, his a onesies and things like that?

Heather 12:47
You know what I have never seen. Actually take that back one time. I did see as a one. See, it was 6.6. But that was a long time ago. Right. I assume it's the same, you know, I guess I don't know. He has no damage that I know of. I mean, this this is I don't I don't know he tells me is a onesies. I guess he could be making it up. But you know, I don't know for sure.

Scott Benner 13:13
That would be a lot of effort to call your call your adult sister to make up your agency tour. Yes, yes.

Heather 13:18
No, I do have to say when he was a teenager like I didn't think he was going to make it through his teenage years. Like I'm not kidding. We all thought that he just wasn't going to make it he had a horrible time with his diabetes and just in general being a teenager

Scott Benner 13:40
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Heather 16:50
So we were just we were how so? Did you

Scott Benner 16:54
Yeah, you can you can you tell me more about that?

Heather 16:56
Yeah, he he was kind of into some drugs, some friends that weren't the best friends. He struggled with. I don't know if it was just the diabetes, I think he just didn't want to be a diabetic at that time. And also just didn't want people to tell him what to do in general. Even without the diabetes, he just had a really, really rough childhood. You know, my parents didn't quite know what to do with him. They ended up putting him in a psychiatric hospital in the city, which was probably the worst place for him. But they didn't know what else to do. Because he just wasn't taking care of himself. And all that. And we really didn't think he was gonna make it. He ran away a few times. Called the paramedics I can't tell you how many times with him in convulsions. And so for him to make it through that we were all shocked. And he's I mean, I don't I mean, I guess maybe the paramedics have been called he lives by himself. So I don't know. But I don't know about it. If they have,

Scott Benner 17:58
I think your brother is brilliant. He set the bar so low, that just being upright, you're like he's doing amazing.

Heather 18:04
I know. Well, that could be part of it. But he also on the flip side, I grew up with it with him having diabetes so many years ago, so when they told me I'll all this new technology and stuff when my son was diagnosed, I'm like, wow, this is gonna be super easy. Because, you know, I remember with the test tubes and the urine. And yeah, I think we had little tablets, I wasn't really involved in it. I just remember holding up this test tube to different colors. And so I mean, it's come a long way. So I can I tell people that I'm like, I don't know if we'll see a cure in my lifetime. But I can tell you what has changed since my brother was diagnosed, and it's huge.

Scott Benner 18:41
Was there any concern not that they're even the same person but and maybe your your son might have a completely different personality. But when your son's diagnosed, do any of the thoughts of what your brother's life was, like creep into your head? Do you think maybe these were issues he was having? Because of diabetes, not personality? Or, or something like that? Did you ever worry about that?

Heather 19:00
I did kind of worry about it. I was a little bit more relieved because my son wasn't in general going through any of those problems at that time. And that's about the age that my brother was completely out of control. So my, my son was pretty, not that my brother wasn't a good kid, but he just had his struggles. My son wasn't having any struggles when he was diagnosed, so at least he had that going for him. So I didn't, that really didn't concern me. I wasn't too worried about that. I just was more worried about, you know, the end of the life that he knew, and now he has to join this new life that no, no mother, no parent wants their kid to have to struggle. And, you know, anyway, anyway, and so, you know, I was devastated for that. But I don't think it ever occurred to me that he would have any of the problems that my brother did.

Scott Benner 19:51
Okay, so your son's diagnosed, he gets, what kind of technology

Heather 19:56
he got Dexcom and he was doing and yeah i for a while, but I think it was like less than a year before he got the pump. So I got a T slim and he's still on both of those. And he's he's doing great.

Scott Benner 20:11
Did he go to college at the end of high school,

Heather 20:15
he went to college, he went to community college for a couple years decided that wasn't for him. There. That was really hard for me because I always told my kids, I'm like four year degree, you need a four year degree, I don't care what it's in, but get a four year degree. And then you know, things change. And he was a very smart kid, very bright computers. And he just didn't like school. So he ended up going and doing some sort of, uh, it was called like a boot camp, computer boot camp, and then some other training and he's, I call it his big boy job. Now he's got a real job now and with insurance, and he's doing great. He and his girlfriend bought a condo together, they've got two dogs, my grandkids, so they're, they're doing fantastic. And the girlfriend that is with I mean, I know she's gonna be around forever, because they've been together forever. But she was with him before and after diabetes diagnosis. And I think my feeling is anyone who's a young kid who can stick with somebody after the fact. That's a good, that's a good egg.

Scott Benner 21:09
I really only asked because I was wondering, how do you left? Was he leaving home after high school? Or was he still at the house? I was trying to figure out how management was going there. Oh, he was still at the

Heather 21:19
house. I think it was a year to try to think, a year, a year after because when he was at the community college, he was still living at home. But then he and his girlfriend moved into an apartment. So he I mean, he's always he's been really good about managing it.

Scott Benner 21:37
Do you follow his blood sugar's

Heather 21:39
I used to I don't anymore. I follow my daughters, and obviously my own. And that's about all I can handle right now. I don't think I can handle following him. Because I am sure that he has lows that he takes care of. And I'm sure he has highs that he takes care of. And I just, I mentally can't do it. I mean, I guess I could if I had to, but I don't think he wants me to tell you the truth. Do you

Scott Benner 22:03
still go back and forth about it? Like do you check in with him at like endo visits or anything like that? Or are you pretty much out of it?

Heather 22:10
Oh, no, no, no, I remind him, I make sure that he has his endo visits, I make sure he I'm still semi in charge of his supplies. He could do it. It's just easier for me because we're all kind of on the same schedule. So I just kind of ordered everything at the same time. So I need to start releasing that to him a little bit more. But yeah, he has I think his latest his last a one C was 6.4 or 6.5. It was one of those two, that's great, which you know, and he doesn't let it get you know, he's not as controlling about it as I am. But he does. Okay, like neither one of us has is on see IQ. Eventually, I think I might I'm getting closer and closer. But I think it's just the control. We like to see what our blood sugar is. We like to be able to be the one to be like, Oh, I'll correct it this way. Yeah. And I know, it seems like more work. But I'm so used to it that it's not more work. It's just way of life for me. And it's working. And it's working for me.

Scott Benner 23:11
Oh, yeah. I think whatever works is what's right. I I'm just interested about kids always in their early 20s. Right. They want to be independent. They don't You don't get to see my blood sugar. You don't have to be kind. But could you please order my supplies and do like they? Yeah, they want to be in charge of all the fun stuff.

Heather 23:26
Right? Yeah, no, I have to give him credit. He has never asked me to order his supplies. You just do it. I just have done it. And it's me. If I were to say, Here you go, it's on you. It would be totally fine.

Scott Benner 23:37
That's just like me saying that my wife vacuums my bedroom. And I don't say anything about it because I want her to keep doing. I don't ever whip out the vacuum and run towards the bedroom. Because I'm like, Well, if I vacuum it, she might stop. Yeah. So good. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. So okay, so wait a minute. So you're both using tandem control, but not control IQ. You're using I'm assuming g 6x? Calm? Yeah, he's got an A one C and the lower sixes and 24 years old living on his own seems terrific to me. Your brother's never shown any interest in this technology? Like never ask you about it be like, Hey, let me see that like nothing. Never.

Heather 24:17
Never. He's very private. I mean, he will. I mean, he doesn't hide it from us necessarily. But like in his travels and stuff like that. I don't. I think that's probably part of why he doesn't want it because, you know, God forbid somebody sees the wire. They might know he's a diabetic. I don't know this for sure. This is just my feeling. He's just, he's not open about it. Like we're like, I've got all of my supplies like all over the place sometimes. And like I said, if we're out in public, my daughter has no problem lifting up her shirt. She has an eye port, which is wonderful for her MDI. So she just lifts it up and, you know, takes a shot right there, right? No big deal. She's changed her Dexcom in public She doesn't care. Nobody cares. And I'm glad I normalized it. I didn't want people to be embarrassed about it. Because it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Obviously, nobody would do anything. You know, I told him I said, you know, if you're in a restaurant, don't turn to the person next to you and be like, Haha, look what I'm doing. You don't have to do that. You don't have to, like shove it in their nose. Right. But there's nothing wrong with doing this in public as long as you you know, yeah. are respectful of other people who might be a little queasy of needles or this and that. No, I

Scott Benner 25:29
think that's excellent. It's your situation. There's no reason you'd have to hide. So now the next thing I'm really interested in, is yes, that your son had diabetes for Am I right? About six years before you got it? Yes. Did you ever once think I might get diabetes?

Heather 25:48
Never. Okay. Never, never ever. I thought. I never I thought maybe one of my other kids would get it. But I never never crossed my mind that I would

Scott Benner 25:58
to you. And at 14 years old to me, you were Yeah, yeah. So

Heather 26:02
with the time I didn't know that there were so many people my age, all of a sudden, maybe not all of a sudden, but it was being more prevalent that people my age or older, were getting type one. But then once I was diagnosed, I started doing a little research. I'm like, look at that. There's a lot of us out there.

Scott Benner 26:18
Yeah, Jenny and I were talking about this the other day, while we were recording about how just probably the function of the JDRF being originally called the Juvenile diabetes Research Foundation probably makes a lot of people think you can't get diabetes after you're 18. You know, just a misnomer. So I'm wondering when you're diagnosed, does he turn into the parent? Or like, what's the what what ends up being the? You know what I mean? Like, there's, there's got to be this moment where he's like, Oh, she has a thing I know about like, like, I've had this thing, nobody else has had it. Now my mom has it like this he become you don't I mean, like, does he turn into a mentor? Or does he like, the whole dynamic?

Heather 27:01
You know, he actually was a mentor. I don't know that he necessarily wanted to He never complained about it. But I was the one asking him. That was like questions. I had so many questions for him. And especially when I went on the pump, I had questions for him. But when I first was diagnosed, and I was just doing shots, I remember the first shot that I had to get myself and this is when I was misdiagnosed as type type two, but I think it took me 45 minutes before I finally was able to get my shot. And my son sat there and he was just laughing hysterically. He's like, Mom, just do it. Like, and I try, you know, I, I get ready, and I, you know, 123 and then I'd stop and he's like, Oh my gosh, just do it already.

Scott Benner 27:39
You had given him countless shots. I had given him a million shots.

Heather 27:43
But for some reason, I just couldn't do it to myself. But he has been he has been a mentor, and I still talk to him about it. Like, you know, I'll you know, if I find something that works for me, I'm like, Hey, you might want to try this. Like, you know, the never ending pasta battle. You know, we both love pasta. And you know, we're looking always looking for different kinds or different. Extended boluses or this and that or different ways of doing things. And we'll share. You know, what works for us. What doesn't? Yeah, different low snacks. We're always looking for new low slip low snacks. I mean, not as much anymore. I guess he's not my mentor. But at the beginning. Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 28:23
I just met at the beginning. And by the way, dreamfields is my favorite pasta. I find it the easiest to Bolus for oh, okay, so now so now here's my, here's my real question. They're not a sponsor, but I would let them be just in case they're listening.

Heather 28:39
I'm gonna write that I'm writing it down right now.

Scott Benner 28:41
You know, I thought maybe it was possible. You worked for dreamfields. And you're gonna I, so now I want to dig into this a little bit. The difference between being the caregiver of someone with type one and having type one. So what, what were the things that happened? When it became about you? And how was that different than managing it when you were helping somebody else?

Heather 29:07
Oh, let's see.

Scott Benner 29:10
I want you to know, I think about this all the time. I wonder, like, what would happen if I woke up one day and I had type one, if this podcast wouldn't turn into like me being like, Oh, I'm so bad at this for myself. You know, or, or if, if I be able to apply it and work there'd be psychological things or like it just seems like it's I don't know, it's it seems to me like there's a big shift in there somewhere. Maybe you were effortless about it. I don't know.

Heather 29:39
I don't think that there was a big shift for me. If anything, I think it was maybe easier. Because I always felt like when I tried to. Like I said my son really sort of took over from day one. I tried to be a little bit more controlling, but he really he just took it and ran with it. He was amazing. thing, as was my daughter when she was diagnosed. So when I was diagnosed, I really wasn't answering your question. I really wasn't taking care of him that much anymore. So the focus was really just on me. And I, I guess there was a little bit of a little bit of guilt, because I'm like, Oh, great, you know, definitely comes from my side of the family. And, you know, once I was diagnosed, I'm like, well, here now I know, I've given my kids even a stronger chance of getting it. But as far as caretaking? I don't. I don't think there was much of a shift other than him all of a sudden becoming the mentor. What about perspective?

Scott Benner 30:43
Were there things that you were doing with him? That you maybe didn't see the the complete range of emotions that would be impacted or something to that effect that when it is something you had to do to yourself? You recognize that? Oh, gosh, there's more to this than I thought or is everything about the way you expected it?

Heather 31:04
Um, I think maybe like when he would be low. Like, even if he wasn't super low, I was like, in a panic and like, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, gotta do this. Gotta do this. And for a kid to hear that that's like nagging. Like Leave me alone, mom. I mean, I know it's emergent, or it can be emergent. But then when I was having those lows, I'm like, Oh, 75. I'm fine. I've got a little bit. So I kind of would look back and be like, Oh, I was kind of a bully to him. Not not a bully. But I was kind of very naggy to him. Just take care of it, take care of it take care of it when that's about the only thing I can think of all I

Scott Benner 31:42
did was art. It was 65 the other day, and it was sitting there and I'm like art and this is not holding on. Like I showed her the line. I'm like, look at the line. The line is telling us it's gonna keep going down. If you just did something right this second, it would take a few carbs and it would be over. And she's like, I have plenty of time. Plenty of time. Yes.

Heather 32:00
Oh my gosh, she sounds like my daughter. Right? I get I get 50 threes. She's in college and I get 50 threes like Arrow angle down. I'm like, you know, I always send her like a blood drop and a low arrow text. Like, just tell me that, you know, this is going on? She's like, I'm fine. I'm fine. You're not. You're not fine.

Scott Benner 32:19
It's always it's always like, it's fine. I'm like are now the hours diagonal down. I was like, yeah, the Dexcom is not. It's not magic, right? You know, it's not exactly what's happening. Now. It's a little behind real time. You're probably a little lower than this already. And then you know, 55 and then she's like, I'm dizzy. And I'm like, Oh, no kidding. Are you really? I don't know how that goes. Well, that wolf is gonna kill something.

Heather 32:42
I know. Yeah. Sorry about that.

Unknown Speaker 32:44
What kind of dogs are Labradors? Oh, wow, very nice. They're

Heather 32:47
Yeah, they're two years old. And they

Scott Benner 32:50
think they see something.

Heather 32:52
Yeah, they probably just hear something outside. But yeah, my daughter does the same thing. Sometimes I just don't want to follow her just for that reason. It's worrisome to because she can't feel them half the time like I'm 75. And I start to feel a little bit shaky, right. But I'm okay for a little bit. And then as I get lower, I get like sweaty or and this and that. She it takes her a while. And then finally she's like, oh, yeah, I guess I did feel that I'm like, Oh, gosh. God help us all.

Scott Benner 33:22
How old? Was she when she was diagnosed? She was 18. Okay, and how old is she

Heather 33:27
now? 90. And she was diagnosed a year ago in February. Okay, and you have another child? I have another child. And we did TrialNet with him. And so far, he has no one of the auto antibodies or whatever they're called antibodies for type one. Yeah. So he has none of them. You know, they say that that should be good for about five years. Who knows? We'll see.

Scott Benner 33:50
How old is he? I'm sorry. He's 2222.

Heather 33:55
Yeah, so I'm not that I want any not that I want any of my kids to have diabetes. However, of the kids, I have the two that have it are the best to have it. This one who does not as of now, hopefully it stays that way. He struggles with some anxiety and depression already, and I think that would just be not a good situation. I mean, we'd work we'd figure it out. But I just I'm hopeful that he is spared.

Scott Benner 34:23
Are there any other autoimmune, the family? Non celiac? Nothing? Nothing. How about extended family? Your parents mom got a thyroid problem.

Heather 34:34
No, everyone's pretty healthy. the only the only other diabetes we have in our family is my dad's aunt who has passed away not from diabetes. I think she was just old age or maybe it was a combination. But she excuse me, she had diabetes. That was the only other diabetes that we knew of in our family. And still to this day,

Scott Benner 34:54
you said not diabetes she and my brain filled in was hit by an elephant. That's what I wanted you to say. I don't know. Oh, I wanted like some exciting death for this poor woman. For the podcast. That's the three kids have the same father. Yes. Okay. Are you married? No, not anymore. Okay. Does he have any issues besides being a terrible guy? Uh, no, I'm just kidding.

Heather 35:19
No, actually, I wasn't gonna bring this up. But I, it's fine that you brought it up. He actually was diagnosed with type one as well. I don't know. And I wasn't gonna bring it up, because I don't know a whole lot about his situation. Holy Hell, I know. But he was diagnosed, he was a pilot in the Navy. And we were still married. And he was diagnosed at that point as type two as well. And he, which was weird, because he was like, tall, skinny. I mean, fit. So that didn't make sense. And I didn't know a whole lot about diabetes other than my brother at that point. So I you know, I just went along with it. And so that kind of spiraled down. It was like a downward spiral for him. Because if you're a pilot in the Navy, that's who you are. And if you can't fly, your life's kind of over. Yeah. Or

Scott Benner 36:10
so you think I put up? I put up an episode two days ago with a mom whose kid wanted to be an Air Force pilot because his father was, and he was just diagnosed recently. It's interesting that you said pilot. Hey, just real quick. A health check on you. How's your uterus? You? Okay? You pumped all those kids out pretty quick. I'm starting to look at the dates now. And it's hitting me you made those babies in a span of like, five years, right?

Heather 36:34
Oh, probably not good. Machine heaven. Well, okay. So here's the thing. I got married. He was in the Navy, I couldn't really hold down a job. Because we were moving like every seven months, right? So I figured I might as well have my family. And I'm glad I did. Because I'm I'm 48 and my youngest is 19. I mean, I love the fact that I'm, you know, one day gonna be a young grandma.

Scott Benner 36:58
I have to be honest, I'm there with you. I'm 50 my son's 22. And Arden is going to be 18 in a couple of months. You're a little younger than me in that spectrum. But I really do. Because there are times we go to kids events. And there are parents who are sometimes 1518 years older than me. And oh, yeah. And I'm like, I don't even know how they're doing this. I'm tired. When I get home from this thing. You know what I mean? So

Heather 37:22
especially where I live, where the area that I'm live in the parent age is much older than me. Like I was by far the youngest mom of all of my kids friends. Yeah. When they were in high school, a grade school. Bit so yeah, I did I you know, I started Yeah, but glad I did.

Scott Benner 37:44
Yeah. When when my kids were younger, even cultural references from other parents. I'd realized I'm like, Oh, my God, we're not even the same generation. Yeah.

Heather 37:54
Yeah, I mean, some of these parents I'm like, is that I'd have to ask my kid I'm like, set their grandfather is that their dad? And even now, even though I work at a school, and even now some of the parents I look at them, I'm like, holy cow. Yeah. Like, how do you have any energy? Because I certainly if I had somebody in elementary school right now, I could do it. I don't want to do it. That's the thing.

Scott Benner 38:16
My son said to me, like, yes, he's like, Hey, I might be pitching on Wednesday. Do you want to come up with like a two and a half hour ride? To probably watch him pitch for a couple of innings? You know? And I'm like, Yeah, I'll be there. But if I was 10 years older, I'd be like, I don't know, man. Tell a friend to hold up a video camera or something. Because I can't do I can't drive for five hours to watch your pitch for 30 minutes. But yeah, I still feel lucky that we can. We can do that kind of stuff. Yeah. I mean, there's there's there's trade offs. I mean, we had kids when we were like, like we were functionally idiots. Still, we were pretty young. And there was a lot of stuff we didn't understand. But even that didn't I mean, it didn't stop us. It didn't get in our way. It was just, it was different. I do see the benefit of sometimes older people, they make more. I don't know. Like they they they had more life experience on their own, I guess, which is definitely something I don't have. I have no experience about being by myself, that's for sure. Anyway, I just I just started doing the math. I'd like I'd make notes while I'm talking. And I'm like 24 2219 She's 48. And I was like, hold on a second.

Heather 39:19
Yeah, no, I was done before I was done having kids by the time I was 30, or before I was 30. Something like that.

Scott Benner 39:24
Yeah. But now let's get back to what you brought up because that's even more astonishing. You have type one diabetes, and you married a person who ended up also having type one diabetes, your kids had no chance, I'm guessing. But the odds there you know what I say the odds must not be good. This is not the first time someone said this to me, but but still, that's insane. But given

Heather 39:48
anything like for both of us to have been diagnosed later in life is really bizarre. I think it's very, very strange.

Scott Benner 39:56
Are you on top of like a, like nuclear waste? store

Unknown Speaker 40:00
like not that I know of. Now we're aligned. What else that's buzzing really

Heather 40:05
well. I grew up in Georgia. And I moved here. I moved here on as a second grade. And he lived in the same area around here, but sort of a different town. So no, I don't think so.

Scott Benner 40:17
House is a yellowing. Basically basement doesn't smell weird. Like

Heather 40:22
I guess I grew up I didn't grow up around a lot of like, wire you know,

Scott Benner 40:27
I'm just kidding.

Heather 40:27
I don't. But yeah, I I don't I really don't know. But he, yeah, their dad. He's very secretive about his like when they used to go visit him. Like my son had to go to the bathroom, even at their house to do a shot and this and that. And I thought that was ridiculous. But but he's very secretive. Not that secretive. That's a bad word. Right? Fit. Thank you private, very private about his

Scott Benner 40:53
use his diabetes. I know you guys aren't together. But do you have any idea of how he manages this? He is he using tech or

Heather 41:01
a he does not have a pump? He I think he's just MDI, and he did have a Dexcom. But my daughter just recently told me that he was sending her all of his sensors because he didn't like it. I don't know why he didn't like it.

Scott Benner 41:15
All that information that helps you be healthy. It's upset. Yeah.

Heather 41:18
I mean, I think it's fantastic. Oh,

Scott Benner 41:21
everything's not for everybody. But yeah, really is that's I'm genuinely when you said that. I was like, I just wanted to tease you about having a bunch of babies. And then you were like, Well, I wasn't gonna bring it up. But he has type one. Oh, my God. Do people cross the street when they see your family for fear that you will give them diabetes?

Heather 41:42
I don't know probably if they saw us, but

Scott Benner 41:45
oh, here comes those people. Oh, my goodness, get on the other side of the road.

Heather 41:49
I tell you, we've got a lot of supplies in this house. That's for sure.

Scott Benner 41:52
That, that it looks like a pharmacy in there

Heather 41:56
that we have a lot and like when my daughter was diagnosed, they she couldn't get a Dexcom right away with insurance. We had to wait for that to line but a little bit, but I was like, desperate. I'm in a site called my son. I'm like, how many transmitters Do you have? He's like, I'm good. Mom, I've got plenty. So we were able to slap one on her right when she got home from the hospital. Because we had you know, we had plenty of supplies between the two of us.

Scott Benner 42:18
You can kind of treat the supplies like a rolling. It doesn't matter. Really? Right as as long as you

Unknown Speaker 42:24
Oh, that's nice. It's kind of nice.

Scott Benner 42:28
Finally, the upside of three people in the house.

Heather 42:31
Yeah. And I you know, I know a couple people local and I'm like, if you ever need anything, you know, not that I you know, can give away everything. But if you get stuck, let me know.

Scott Benner 42:40
On the back of a van. You're selling watches and lending people, sensors and stuff.

Heather 42:45
Can I interest you in a transmitter?

Scott Benner 42:48
I've got this G five still now says it's out of date. But you know, how far is your daughter away at school? She local or she somewhere?

Heather 42:58
She's not she is not far at all. She's just up in Milwaukee, which is not far it's about without it there. There's hardly any traffic going that way anyways, but it's like an hour and 10 minutes. So that's phenomenal. Really close. I love

Scott Benner 43:09
it. I think Arden is gonna go to Georgia. And that's, of course a plane ride for us.

Heather 43:16
See, well, my daughter wanted to go to Pennsylvania. And I was like, oh, like, this is before diagnosis. I still thought that was too far. Like, oh, you know, you can't come home on you know, long weekends and stuff like that. And then she got diagnosed, and I was like, oh my god, I was like panic stricken. I was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my God, what do I gotta do? And then she picked that school, and I was just breathed a huge sigh of relief.

Scott Benner 43:41
Did she seem to care about the distance? Or was it just something you were worried about? Oh, no,

Heather 43:45
it was a total mom problem. She was not concerned at all. I mean, as far as her diabetes go, she was not concerned at all. I think she started thinking like, Oh, if I ever want to come back home other than, you know, long breaks, I'm kind of out of luck. And this school that she went to happen to give her the most money and she didn't want student loans. So she made a smart decision for and it's a good, it's a phenomenal school. So, you know,

Scott Benner 44:08
no, that's good stuff. You know, with Arden, we've had some opportunities in the last couple of months. I mean, we've obviously been slowly handing Arden's care to her very slowly, very slowly. But I sped up a little bit a few months ago, and I just said look, if you expect to go away to school, you really have to be able to take care of this like front to back. So let's, you know, I'm gonna back out of this as far as I can. And, you know, you're gonna take your lumps here, but like, let's let you like get to each student really great job. That's good. But still, it's you know, it feels like a really, really far distance. You know, like she's, we drove down there for the visit and it was like 1415 hour drive and you know, if you need to take a flight it's gonna be Yeah, it's gonna take

Heather 44:54
my my middle son who is not type one. He went to school about three hours away and he had a medical emergency. See, and that three hour car drive was the longest car drive of my life. Like it felt like it was, I don't know, four or five days, I just, I couldn't get there fast enough. And the fact that she's only an hour and 10 minutes away, just makes you breathe a sigh of relief, because it still would be, you know, in a medical emergency, it still would seem like a long time, but it's a whole lot faster than anything further. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:22
The other place Arden was thinking of was in Manhattan. And that's an hour for so I was like, that's fine. Like, I could even get on a train and be there in like 90 minutes. And so I was like, Yeah, do that, like, you know, although I have to admit the living in Manhattan Park sounded really expensive. Sounds like, yeah, so maybe not. Yeah, maybe go to Georgia. I want to shift gears here a little bit. And you put this in your note to me. And so I'd like to learn more about it. Because it's the first time it's come up in the podcast. But one of your children had a health difficulty with vaping. Yes. And I wanted to know more about that. It's not something I know anything about.

Heather 45:57
Yes, that was my 24 year old who is type one. He was vaping. And I knew he was vaping. I was not happy with his vaping. He was vaping. Marijuana. I was not thrilled with it. It wasn't a all day long occurrence. But it doesn't matter. To me, it doesn't matter. I just didn't. It wasn't the marijuana that bothered me so much. It was the vaping part. Like there's so much stuff in there that you don't know about. And, you know, sure enough, he got sick, he because I had told him from the time he was diagnosed as type one. And when he moved out the house and like he ever gets sick if you ever get a fever, and it's you know, let me know, let me know right away when you have a fever, because I'm always scared of decay. So he called me one day and he's like, you know, my member, you told me to let you know, like, whenever I had a fever, I said, yeah, he's like, Well, I've had a fever for like four days. I'm like, Oh my gosh,

Scott Benner 46:49
I got right on it mom.

Heather 46:52
Like, thanks for letting me know on day one. And he's like, you know, I feel pretty bad. I've been to the doctor once. They said I have just like a pneumonia type of thing. And I was like, Okay, well, that's not great. But, you know, let me go grab me some groceries, I'll get you some, you know, just sick, sick food, you know, especially with diabetes. I wanted to make sure that he was you know, getting the carbs and taking the insulin to stay away from DK. So I ran to the store, went to his house, walked in, took one look at him dropped the groceries. I'm like, You are not okay. So we went straight to the hospital. And sure enough, they got us right in because they didn't know what it was. And they you know, they thought it was an infectious disease, something because he couldn't breathe. I mean, he was coughing, and he was happy. He could, but he just had a very hard time breathing. But he was miserable. And so they got us in and they admitted him. You know, we all had to wear gowns and masks and stuff like this well before COVID. So this is all new to us. And you know, we had all that. So the first two days, he was in a general room, and they still didn't know what was wrong with him. They're like, Oh, he's got this. He's got this, maybe this, but tests were all inconclusive. Like nothing came back positive. So it didn't know what was wrong with him. But he continued to get worse. So then they're like, alright, we'll do a biopsy on his lungs. And I don't, they knew that he was vaping. They knew that he had a history of vaping. But it just I don't think I don't think it clicked with the doctors because this was all new. The whole vaping I forget what it's called vaping lung

Scott Benner 48:28
disease. Disease. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. It has

Heather 48:31
some sort of a name now. But then it didn't, because it was just the beginning of all of these have this packet of time where all of these people were getting sick. So then they went to do the biopsy and as long and when they were doing that he stopped breathing, or his stats went down to like 20. Whatever happened, they put them on a ventilator. And there he stayed for, I think it was 12 days. Wow. Well, he was on a ventilator longest 12 days of my life, of course, because they just didn't know what was wrong with him. And I think it was like, I don't know, the first couple days he was on the ventilator on the news was the very first deaths in Illinois from this vaping disease. And I thought, here we go. And right then I'm like, here's this is what's going to happen. And I started to prepare myself. And that sounds terrible. But that's personally how I deal with things like I would have been devastated. No matter no matter how much I prepared myself, it would have been just horrible, and I just can't even think about it. But at that time, I'm like, I just have to read myself, I have to enjoy the time that I have with him now. And that's what I did. And I did not I hardly left the hospital. They like forced me to leave a couple of times. They're like you really need to go take a shower, or you really need to go get something to eat. Or in the one time I actually did leave because my daughter had some sort of fundraising meeting or something and I felt bad because I you know, wasn't paying attention to any of my other kids. So I went to Get out with her. And of course, the doctor called me the hospital. They're like, You need to get back here. His I think his lung collapsed or something, something pretty bad had happened. So I flew back and I'm like, I'm never leaving the hospital over again. Yeah. So it was it was pretty bad. And they, again, they didn't know what was wrong with him. They thought they knew, eventually with the vaping, and the deaths that were happening, and all the all the illness around regarding this that was popping up, right, but they didn't know what to do. So on his lucky for him, he was young, lucky for him, his heart was in great condition. And they just pumped him full of steroids and cross their fingers. And somehow, I don't know how but somehow he came out of it. Wow. And, but during that time, his type one care I was panicked about two and the first two days was horrible. The nurses, probably no, it probably was not their fault. They just didn't have the training. They didn't know what to do. They were doing sliding scale, and it just was a mess. But then once we got to the ICU, those nurses were phenomenal. Like, yeah, oh my gosh, they not only did they know what to do, they respected my wishes, like they, they would tell me, they let me keep a Dexcom on him. And this poor Dexcom went through CT scans, I know it's not supposed to, but it survived. And I still did poke his finger just to make sure but it just made me feel better to kind of have a gauge and even without going through all the CT scans, and he had one like every single day. Um, that desktop still worked, it still was pretty much in range, even when I poked his finger, but they they really respected my wishes of letting me know, like when they would test him, they put everything up on a whiteboard. So I could see they let me know how much insulin they were giving him. They would ask me is this okay? You know, do you think do you agree with this, and I can't say enough about them. Like, I wish I could go back and hug each and every one of them because they just they knew how concerned I was about this vaping illness. And above that I was concerned about his diabetes as well. And they just couldn't have been more wonderful. That's

Scott Benner 52:09
excellent. Are you going to obviously heal better if your blood sugar's are stable and lower. So

Heather 52:14
Right. And that's, that was part of my concern, you know, the first few days of these nurses who didn't know what they were doing. And again, no fault of their own, because they were probably trained to do what they were doing. But once I got up there, they just they really, and I taught them a lot, too. They're like, Oh, we didn't know that, or we didn't know that. And so we worked together, and we got him through it somehow. But it was how long?

Scott Benner 52:39
I'm sorry, how long until you thought he was out of the woods. Like what was that timeframe?

Heather 52:45
Not until they started trying to take them off the vent. So, so two weeks, because it was it was bad, bad, bad. And every day, his lungs would get worse. And at one point, his X ray, you couldn't even see his lungs. It looked like a just a white screen. I mean, it just was it was completely covered. So that was pretty scary. And again, they just kept pumping him and he you know, he was sedated, was in a coma. But he was sedated for the ventilator. And then I think it was on day 10 That they're like, Okay, we see a little bit of improvement. And he was had started to grieve over the vent, which I didn't know, I didn't know you could do that. I thought if you were on a ventilator, you were just on a ventilator. I didn't realize you could also breathe at the same time. But he was like fighting the ventilator with his breathing even though he was sedated. And they said, Well, that's a good sign. So they and his X ray started to look better. I think actually, I think it was like day nine or I don't I think maybe, let's say day 10. Right, it's X ray started to look better in the morning. And then in the afternoon, they looked even better. So then they're like, alright, we'll start trying to I forget all the medical terms, something to do with peep there. I remember that word. It had something to do with the, I think the amount of air that they were giving him. But they started to wean him off of the ventilator and see what would happen. And the first day it didn't happen. We all had our fingers crossed. We're like, Oh, this is gonna work and it didn't. So they had to sedate him again. And then the next day we tried to get in the morning, didn't work. And then the next afternoon we tried again. And as we were trying, because x rays were getting better and better. No idea how or why. Maybe his body finally started fighting it. I don't know maybe the steroids finally started to work there charm that we'll never know. But he started to get better. And then finally, I think it was on the 12th day. It the morning didn't work but the afternoon time worked and they were able to take the ventilator out how long

Scott Benner 54:45
prior to the illness had he been vaping you know?

Heather 54:53
Probably a couple of years. So I don't think it was. I mean vaping I think is not good for you. I'm just going to, that's my personal feeling. I think he got a hold of some bad cartridges that had what I think they find found it was like the vitamin E or there was something else that was tainted in some of these cartridges. And that's why all of a sudden all these people were getting sick. And I think they must have stopped putting that in the cartridges since then, because now you don't hear of it. Was he just yet at that time? Was

Scott Benner 55:24
he just vaping? Like weed oil? Or was he also like just doing I guess nicotine?

Heather 55:31
He never Nope. It was always weed oil. It was never nicotine. So he don't hate must have gotten a bad cartridge, maybe an illegal cartridge. But I remember the CDC wanted to they got a hold of all of our all of his cartridges and some lady it was kind of like it felt like it was like a little drug deal or something she showed up at the hospital with this bag. And we had to do a little trade off. You know, we went through all of his drawers at his house and got all of his stuff that he got because we wanted to give it to them so they could try and figure out what was going on.

Scott Benner 56:06
That's amazing. Well, yeah, it was a big problem. They were it was it was panic, too.

Heather 56:12
Yeah. I mean, it was a huge problem. And it happened very quickly. And it lasts. It was very severe for I think like two or three months. I don't really remember because I was really focused on just him. But I remember it being really bad for a short while and then it was gone. So and unfortunately he was one of the ones and he actually I think they called him patient zero or something at that hospital. Or maybe it was in the county. I don't know if it was in the state or if it was in the county. I can't remember. No, that's not an easy one. No, no, no, it's not. And you know, now we now we joke about it now that he's okay, because he's like, Hey, Mom, I two claims to fame, my patient zero for that. And then years ago, he and his brother both got whooping cough, which they both were vaccinated against whooping cough, but they were on the news to students at so and so high school, whooping cough. So he's like, I've two things mama, like, Oh, please don't be proud of those.

Scott Benner 57:04
I don't know if you all remember the whooping cough kid. But guess what? He's back. He's back. Not to make light of this. But how does he get his weed and now?

Heather 57:13
Oh, he does not touch anything. Well, that was it that fixed it. The thing is, he was on a ventilator for 12 days, of course doesn't remember much of that. That's not what stopped him from vaping or smoking weed. What stopped him is his chest tube that he had in those three days after he was off the ventilator when he was conscious. They were draining his chest. He said I don't ever want to have a chest tube and ever again, he said he could feel it. Every time he moved. He said the whole idea of the chest tube. He said so he said so if any parent ever wants their kid to stop smoking, tell them to put a chest tube in their kid and I guarantee their kid will.

Scott Benner 57:54
I don't know if that's a viable deterrent, but I don't I don't think

Heather 57:57
it is. But you know,

Scott Benner 58:00
I take his point. Oh, I see. So he stopped the Yeah, that's um, that's something else. Okay. Yeah. Hold on. We've done a lot here. Give me a half a second. I gotta breathe.

Heather 58:15
I know, we've got a lot going on in this family. I

Scott Benner 58:17
mean, honestly, there's so much happening that any I mean, there's no way to like even head down a road. But I do want to go back to your to your daughter because I feel like we just kind of skipped over her for a second. So you are helping her manager? No.

Heather 58:34
I'm not really. You know, I if I see it being low, I just remind I mean, when she she sees it slow to she never doesn't see it. I just like her to acknowledge to let me know that she sees it because then I feel better. I'm like, Okay, I know she, she sees that she's taking care of it. But as far as management, I don't do too much. I mean, she's in college now. So there's not a whole lot I can do.

Scott Benner 58:58
Right? Do you go with her to no appointments?

Heather 59:01
I used to I don't anymore. We have the same Endo. She and I luckily that's the one that came to see her when she was diagnosed in the hospital. So she got to be with her right away, which was fantastic. I was so excited. So we didn't have to fight to switch doctors. But I don't go anymore. But she you know, she has signed a waiver and I can ask questions because we usually have our endo appointments about the same time because we're every three months so I'm usually a week or two after my daughter.

Scott Benner 59:28
So you guys, she's she's not using a child's Endo. She's using an adult No,

Heather 59:33
she's an adult because she was 18 when she was diagnosed, you can stay

Scott Benner 59:37
with them longer if you're in college. I think it's 24 maybe it's the number you can keep pediatrician into your 20s right

Heather 59:45
but she because she was 18 at diagnosis they didn't start with a excuse me a pediatric No they just sent her straight to the adults which is fine. I'm glad they did because our doctors phenomenal I love her. But yes She,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
I'm sorry. Oh, that's sorry.

Heather 1:00:02
I was just say she was diagnosed back in February. And that one, they all the signs were there. I just I don't know if I chose not to see them. She had lost a lot of weight. But you know, it was also a teenage thing. You know, she lost a lot of weight, but she'd been exercising. She was hungry all the time. But she was a teenager. She was drinking all the time. But she she's been doing that for like, a million years. That's just her

Scott Benner 1:00:26
water. Yeah.

Heather 1:00:28
So all of those things. It just didn't click, or maybe it did click, and I just didn't want it to come to the surface of my brain. I don't know. But then she started really? Uh, go ahead.

Scott Benner 1:00:40
No, I was gonna say, if I was you, I would have tried. I think my brain would have tried to avoid it, too.

Heather 1:00:45
I really think that my brain probably was, yeah, because she lost a lot of weight.

Scott Benner 1:00:50
You've had enough? Yeah. Honestly, if I'm being I mean, no one's in charge of this. But if there's a you know, if there's a line that says, I've had my fill of this, I think you're done. I think whatever you owe the universe you you paid back already.

Heather 1:01:05
I hope so. Yeah. I hope so. But I brought her she went to the doctor, not because of those symptoms, but because she had really bad heartburn, like so much so that she had stopped eating. She's like, it just hurts. I can't swallow anything. So I'm like, alright, we better go have that checked out. And the doctor, you know, checked her out and saw the weight loss, but didn't think any thing up? I mean, she mentioned it. And she's like, are you working out? And my daughter is like, Well, yeah, she's like, well, it's quite a bit of weight. And,

Scott Benner 1:01:34
again, Heather, how does somebody not go? Well, since your mom, your dad, your brother and your uncle have type one diabetes? What if we just checked? Well, we had

Heather 1:01:43
seen a doctor there, there was like five PDF pediatricians in the office. And we had our general one, but that one was busy. So we saw somebody else. And I always am convinced at that time, I was always convinced that somebody you know, I don't know, I always ask the question. Could it be diabetes? Yeah, I would, if I was you. And I didn't say Could it be diabetes, necessarily, but I just said, just do some blood work just because this is just weird. And she's just not eating. And as long as we're here and the doctors like, oh, yeah, sure, no problem. You know, go right now we'll do some blood work. And she gave us some acids or prescription for something. And so she went to get her bloodwork done. And then that night at like one in the morning, my phone rang. And it had a city that's close by and I thought that's weird. And then my, but I didn't get to it in time. It was the house phone that rang first. Well, I'm sorry, take the bike, the house phone rang first, I didn't get to it because I don't have a house phone in my room. And then my cell phone rang and it said the city and I thought that's that's gotta be the hospital. And you know, it could be some one of my other kids. So I answered it. And it was our real pediatrician. And he's like, how's your daughter doing? I'm like, what I'm like, half asleep. He's like how she doing? I'm like, I don't know, she's sleeping. He's like, her glucose levels. And as soon as he said that, I flew out of bed. I'm like, Oh, my God, you stop there, right there. Because I know exactly what you're going to say. Yeah. And he said, You need to get out of the hospital, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, and then the next day, the original doctor called and she said, I just want to apologize. She said, I should have done a urine test. And I said, Don't you know, don't worry, you know, it's fine now, right? She's not gonna work out. She's okay. You know, having not seen all of the background, I probably wouldn't have thought that either. Because she didn't present with you know, she didn't say hey, I've been drinking a lot of water. Hey, I'm hungry all the time. She just said I have heartburn and I can't eat.

Scott Benner 1:03:37
I think tandem index calm should send you like a punch card, like at a submarine shop, you know? And like after a certain number of sensors, I send you a free one or something like that. Fair. Seems fair on that one. Yeah, it would be nice. Yeah. You want to be on the box of the of the tandem tee slip,

Heather 1:03:54
man. You know,

Scott Benner 1:03:56
I just like, you know, sitting there.

Heather 1:03:58
I'm trying to convince my daughter to and not really convincing. I'm just trying to I feel like she'll have an easier time not that she's having a hard time with MDI. She really is doing great. But she's she's like, I just don't want to pump it's fine. I don't mind carrying around my insulin and this and that. At first. She was going to do Omnipod back when she was first diagnosed, but now she's like, I don't know. I'm gonna stick with what I'm doing for now.

Scott Benner 1:04:19
Yeah, again, I think people should do what's working for them. And

Heather 1:04:22
yeah, and so whatever works for her. Yeah. You know, I love my pump, but that doesn't mean that she will.

Scott Benner 1:04:28
How do you? I have one more question. How do you come to find yourself listening to the podcast?

Heather 1:04:35
Well, I started listening religiously when COVID hit because I started really walking a lot. And I needed something to do and I can't I don't know if somebody told me about it or how I came across it. But I really enjoyed it and a lot of the things I already knew, but it's just, it's just it's nice to hear other people. It's nice to feel like you're not alone. It's nice to hear that other people have problems. You know, you might not have them. i That sounds bad. I don't I don't know. I mean, it's nice that other people have problems. There. Let

Scott Benner 1:05:07
me stop you. I agree with you. And I know you didn't mean it in like a like a biting light. But it is comforting to not feel alone. Yes. And in this scenario, other people having problems is how you don't feel alone, which is yes. Sucks for them, but really great for you. Yeah, no, I know what you're saying.

Heather 1:05:28
Yeah. So when I, you know, would hear these different things. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, it's just so devastating. And then I'm like, my problems don't seem like nothing. It's like, okay, yeah. You know, they had to deal with that my mind is nothing. And I just, I really, even though I knew most of the stuff, it was fun to listen and be like, oh, yeah, I'm doing that. I'm doing that. Oh, I should try that. I haven't been listening too much lately up. It's been so busy. I couldn't even tell you what I'm doing. But I need to get back into it. Because I there's so many that I haven't listened to. But I did send my daughter when she was first diagnosed, I sent her list of like the the important ones like for the newly diagnosed and she really enjoyed listening to them as well.

Scott Benner 1:06:11
I'm glad I actually am getting ready to do an episode with Jenny, where we I went on the Facebook page and the private Facebook page, and I asked people about what helped them when they were newly diagnosed, or what they wish somebody would have told them. And we compiled what everyone said, and Jenny and I are gonna go over and an episode. Oh, which that'll be a good one. Yeah, I'm excited for but you know, it's funny. A lot of people I know who have podcasts about other things, not diabetes, specifically, they would say that the COVID killed their show. And my show like, like exploded during COVID.

Heather 1:06:48
Well, and I'm definitely one of those people because I, I would do this three and a half mile loop. And I put your earbuds in and off we go.

Scott Benner 1:06:58
Listen to it, I appreciate it very much. My initial concern was that, oh, I just in my mind imagined that people must listen while they commute. And now no one's commuting anymore. And my gosh, this is gonna be terrible. But it absolutely went the other direction. So I was really I was really grateful. I was nervous there for a while there was about a week and a half, two weeks, where not just me. But every podcast, like like podcasting dipped, like I think it was 18% One month at the beginning of COVID. And I heard these reports. I was like, oh, gosh, and I went looked at my numbers. And I had gone up and I was like, Oh, am I gonna be the exception to this rule is like, please. And you know, it did work out that way. So, I mean, COVID was great for this podcast, I can't believe that's what I'm saying. But it really was, it really helped it explode even more. Which was, you know, I'm grateful. I'm grateful other people find the, the information, you know, and have an opportunity. So it's just very cool. So your daughter did listen. I'd like to see you get your brother to listen, I bet you couldn't do that for money.

Heather 1:08:06
There's no way not gonna happen. Unless I play it when he's here. It comes up on Saturdays. Maybe I'll just blast it.

Scott Benner 1:08:13
I'll tell you boy, I don't know if he's got that type of like personality where he'd want to talk. But, but there's something about his story I find really interesting.

Heather 1:08:23
You know what, I think he would have a fantastic story. If I can convince him to do it. We'll see. I don't I don't know if I can I don't pressure

Scott Benner 1:08:30
him. But if he ever comes up, tell him I I'd be fascinated to hear from somebody that's been managing for that long that way. And hear how he's doing and what he's doing. Really, sincerely. Yeah, that'd be something.

Heather 1:08:44
Well, I'm I'm still confused. I mean, not confused. I'm still fascinated that he's still alive in general, with his background, but the fact that he's able to control himself and be alive, just the way he's doing it is yeah, he's doing something right.

Scott Benner 1:08:59
I need to I need to talk to him just so I can ask. Like, what kind of drugs and what were you doing? And like, I'm super I know, you don't want to share his personal information, but like, in my mind is you know, I don't know he's flying on the nose of a jet plane with heroin in his hand. And I'm like, dying to know his whole story.

Heather 1:09:15
But no, he um, like I said, I I really didn't think he was going to make it through his teenage years. I really didn't. And so thankful that he did because he's an amazing uncle. All around to my kids. Just an amazing brother. Okay, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:33
that's excellent. I'm glad for you. Well, I I really appreciate you doing this if we didn't miss anything that you wanted to talk about. I feel very good about this episode.

Heather 1:09:40
And I think we touched on pretty much every excellent good

Scott Benner 1:09:45
I'm glad I had a great time talking with you. I really appreciate you doing this.

Heather 1:09:48
I did too. Thank you so much. Sorry about my dogs barking Oh,

Scott Benner 1:09:51
listen, people like dogs they I get know sometimes that people miss my dogs because I moved away from them. So anyway, that's that I liked your dogs barking I

Heather 1:10:01
thought well they still they usually can go with my mom and dad but they How dare them they went to Hawaii for two weeks. So to me the dogs during my spring break so

Scott Benner 1:10:11
enjoy that. Alright All right thank you hold on one second for me

a huge thanks to Heather for sharing her story with us. And another thank you to us Med and Contour Next One. Us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Are you looking for that? Brand new FreeStyle Libre three, get your hands on it at us med if you're looking for the Contour Next One blood glucose meter look no farther than contour next.com forward slash juice box. You may pay less in cash than you do through your insurance. For the Contour Next One and the test trips. Go check it out

if you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please tell someone else about it. Like your doctor, a friend, a stranger on the street. Anybody really. And don't forget to please subscribe or follow in an audio Apple like Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music, stuff like that. Just go into your audio app search for the podcast, hit subscribe or follow whatever the app is using. I don't know why they all can't just pick one but they can't now I have to say subscribe or follow follow or subscribe. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#768 Dexcom G7 Design

Dexcom Senior Director of Global Product Design, Alex Diener has type 1 diabetes and he's here to talk about designing the Dexcom G7.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 768 of the Juicebox Podcast.

This week, the Dexcom g7 launched in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Germany, Austria and Hong Kong. If you're not lucky enough to live in one of those places, you're still waiting for the Dexcom g7. If you don't live in one of those areas, I thought perhaps you were having a little FOMO little fear of missing out or even a void. Maybe there's a dark black void inside of you where you want to put the excitement of Dexcom g7. But it just hasn't arrived at your door yet. Well, never fear. Today, Alex Dina is here, Senior Director of Global Product Design at Dexcom. And Alex and I are going to have a lovely conversation about what it was like to redesign the product, and the user interface. It's not quite Dexcom g7 And your hot little hands, but Alex is pretty terrific. So maybe he'll be able to fill that dark hole with a little bit of excitement, just enough to hold you over until the big event. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast doesn't have any ads. It's an extra episode. It's just an idea I had a couple of days ago, I thought oh, I could have Alex I want to talk about g7 design, you know, the UI all that stuff. It would be nice, a little extra something for you. At the end of the week, I was lucky enough to be able to set this up quickly and record the episode. And here it is for you now, I will remind you that the podcast is supported by advertisers. And when you click on those advertisers links. Well, that's how you get this stuff. You know, I'm saying like I can't make this podcast for free. Do you think you I think I have my bills. I do I have built like an electric bill. And you know, I gotta pay like for the kids, they go to college people eat. There's a lot of stuff around here. So if you're in the market for the Omnipod five or the Omnipod dash, the Dexcom G six, the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, G voc hypo pen, the M pen from Medtronic diabetes. Or if you'd like to learn more about touched by type one. And even in fact, get your diabetes supplies from us med you can do that with links in the show notes of the podcast player that you're listening in right now. Or the links that are available at juicebox podcast.com. When you click on the links or type them in a browser, you're supporting the show on the pod.com forward slash juice box, Dex comm.com forward slash juice box contour next.com forward slash juice box G fo glucagon.com forward slash juice box in pen today.com touch by type one.org and us med.com forward slash juice box. That's it. That's all I gotta do. Now the rest of it is free of me telling you about the advertisers. It's over. Now this part's over. I appreciate you listening to it. Let's talk to Alex.

Alex Diener 3:21
Hey there. My name is Alex Diener. I'm the Senior Director of Global Product Design at Dexcom. And have been here about four and a half years and just thrilled to be part of this team thrilled to be on this mission to make living with diabetes a little bit easier.

Scott Benner 3:38
So Alex, you know you're here because we've got to feed the beast, right? You guys have you guys have announced Dexcom g7 and Europe and a number of countries. And right away people are like, what about here? And I was like, Oh, you don't like it? Do you? Canadians are thrilled, by the way to, to watch America and I get something right away because they're like, now you know how it feels. But, but I just thought what a great opportunity. Because I have to admit, I thought we'd be hearing about g7 anytime now. But I liked that there's this gap here to have these conversations that we don't normally get to have. Because you guys aren't always available to talk to so you're available right now. And I'd like to understand how you take a product or devise an app and change it completely without it changing. But make it better because I assume that's the goal, right? Like keep what people love. Make it Better make it smaller, make it faster, but I don't understand how that happens is just beginning a meeting or you don't I mean,

Alex Diener 4:41
yeah, I mean, I think it's also being in a state of like constantly dreaming big, right like and everyone is kind of like putting their their notes down on paper and and sharing them with each other. But you know, I think at the root of it, it's it's about listening Think to people about listening to our customers. And just really centering the technology on the needs of people of everyday people and hearing their stories and figuring out how can we tailor the technology to fit seamlessly in their life? You know, there's a lot of companies, a lot of companies that are developing technology left and right consumer technology, medical technology, but there needs to be like a real empathy and and focus on, you know, Hey, are we addressing the real needs, and you only discover those real needs by spending time spending time talking to people?

Scott Benner 5:42
I find, especially well, listen, I'm more focused on diabetes, but I've seen so many apps, for example, you know, people are like, well, we have a great idea to help people with diabetes, and they get funding, and it's sometimes stunning how much money people throw into it. And then the app comes and I think this is valueless, like it does, don't you understand what people with diabetes want, they want things to work, and they don't want to put as much effort into it, they're not looking to be involved constantly, you know, what I mean, they're looking to, they're looking forward to do what it needs to do. And when they need to be involved with it, it needs to be fluid and work well and look, right. And when they don't need to be looking at it, they don't want to be looking at it. And people keep trying to drag. I don't know, like, I don't want to I don't want my daughter to have to write down what she ate at three o'clock. You don't mean like I want I want an algorithm that sees a little jump up and pushes it back down again. And then that moments go on, and we don't have to think about it. You know, I went east, I wonder how hard it is for you. When you're working on things. And you have drawings and ideas and designs, you know that this is going to be in the next version of this and you hear people online say, you know, we really want we want this. And your problem. Do you think like overdoing that, but I can't tell you? Have you ever had that thought?

Alex Diener 6:58
Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have a, you know, a lot of different things that we're pursuing. And, you know, medical devices take time to build really high quality robust, user centered products takes time. And yes, sorry.

Scott Benner 7:18
No, I'm sorry. I'm just gonna say so the g7 app that we're going to be seeing soon is that I guess go back and tell me, when did you start working on it? How far back was it being worked on?

Alex Diener 7:29
You know, it's been it's been a number of years, you know, I've been at Dexcom for for four years. And, you know, it's been in work, you know, ever since then, and, and beyond? And, you know, I think there is there's kind of a layering of generations, you know, where work from one blends into the next ideas and, and thoughts and aspirations, kind of flow into the continuity of building one platform to the next. But, you know, you asked about, you know, how does, how does that happen? How does that become real? And, you know, I think I think part of it is us, you know, as a as a team kind of, you know, setting an ambitious target, like what what do we want to deliver? What have we heard from people? What do they want, you know, they want they want clear, simple, robust, intuitive products. Right? Okay. And then how do we break that down into consider constituent parts of the experience, right, like, ah, you know, how can onboarding be better? How could the web experience be better, and looking for ideas, and each each and every one of those vectors, and, you know, I want to make this super, super clear. Design is a team sport, product development is a team sport, and it takes a tremendous amount of people to make it work and to make really compelling, amazing products. And I'm talking about, you know, research, research and product management, engineering, program management, advanced tech, you know, operations, you know, even the feedback from the sales team, you know, all all of these different groups, bring their ideas and their creative energy to bear on on the product development process. And, you know, the hardest part is deciding is curating curating all those ideas, you know, like, what are we going to start on first and what is what is the highest impact to our customers, right. And then from there, building, you know, building some prototypes, whether that be a worn thing, whether that be a digital experience. Let's build some prototypes. Let's get them out there. Let's put them in front of people. Let's, let's hear what they have to say. And then, you know, adjust the prototype and repeat, build, build, test, repeat

Scott Benner 10:00
So Well, I mean, from simple things like websites, all the way up to what we're talking about today, everybody has used something and thought, did they not let anyone try this before they gave it to us? You know, and especially with diabetes, you think, like, Did no one with type one wear this? You know, and there's been stuff like that in the past. So it's a, it's a perfect idea of, you know, to let people look, I also imagine, too, that there has to be a desire from the top. Because you could be at a company that just is like, look, the other app works, who cares? We're not spending money on it. And you know, so there has to be a desire to want to do that. So that you guys have that from the top down, obviously.

Alex Diener 10:37
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, there's, I mean, there's a spirit of continuous improvement, you know, all the way across the company top, top to bottom. So that, and that's a huge, that's a huge asset to a design team. Sure, right. That have that have that support of chasing, chasing new ideas. Even knowing that, you know, that, hey, not everything's gonna pan out, you're gonna chase some ideas that that won't pan out. And that's, that's okay. You know, that's part of that's part of the process.

Scott Benner 11:03
So okay, so you say it's down kind of broken down into parts? So I guess visual is a part right? What does it look like? How does it function? What information do people need, like you guys are? Did you blend the clarity app together with the Dexcom? app?

Alex Diener 11:20
Yeah, there is there are insights from clarity that show up on a clarity card with ng seven. So you get a lot of that high impact information right at your fingertips on that homepage. But I could kind of maybe expand on your on your line of thinking there. You know, like within the global product design team, we've got UX, which is like, you know, your information architecture and your flow, you've got user interface or UI, which they're the visual layer, how that how that user is absorbing and interpreting that information. In the end, they're very much integrated with that that UX team in terms of the overall flow, there's the instructional design, there's like the content designers. And again, they are also integrated, both with the digital product and the physical product in terms of like, you know, just making sure that people understand how to use this, how to make it as intuitive how to communicate the functionality. And then we've got industrial design, industrial design, is the hardware design, the physical object, the applicator, the actual sensor transmitter that is on the body, what should that look like, feel like? How does it feel? You know, what does it look like? All those teams are constantly trading notes, as I kind of chatted about earlier in the podcast about with all those other kinds of different groups that are helping us make decisions together, you know, what's going to be best for the user?

Scott Benner 12:49
Right? Hey, you have type one. So are you wearing the g7? Have you been wearing it for a while?

Alex Diener 12:55
No, you know, because it's not out in the United States. I just wear G six. You know, and I have worn the non functioning prototypes, just so I could understand, you know, the, how it feels on the arm or? And yeah, so, you know, I wear the non functional prototypes. But I like many of your listeners am eagerly awaiting g7 to arrive here in the United States.

Scott Benner 13:23
How do you Matt, would you mind telling me how do you manage? Do you use the injections or pump?

Alex Diener 13:27
Oh, yeah, happy to happy to share. So I've got Dexcom G six, coupled with a tandem tandem pump and control IQ. And, you know, I love it, it's offered offered me a level of freedom. You know, I'll give you an example. Scott, you know, before control, like you couldn't fast, you know, like intermittent fasting just for health and wellness. That was kind of unobtainium. And now that I've got the smart algorithm on board, it's really changed the way that that I treat and even stuff like sleeping through the night, you know, you know, having having that level of comfort is is pretty incredible.

Scott Benner 14:09
I tried to explain to my daughter recently, she was on the podcast, she doesn't come on very much. And I said, you know, one days when, like, after you've had a long week at school and you sleep in on Saturday. That's because you, you know, Arden is using a loop. And I was like, Well, that's because you have an algorithm. It's taking basil away and then when you start to rise up and give some back about bah. And she's almost I mean, even though she's lived through a couple of versions of diabetes management, she was very young when she used MDI she doesn't remember particularly you know, and even like first generation on the pod and stuff like that, so she's like, Yeah, you can see how it just normal it is to her that that's like being in it's not a big deal. But for so many people it's it's unattainable like you said, like, how do I how much was asleep and my blood sugar starts to dip right away if I stay sleeping too longer? Yeah. How do I go to a blood test tomorrow morning when the guy tells me I can't I can't eat after midnight. And, exactly, it's a big deal. So, yeah, so So then if you're using control IQ, then this covers one of the questions I know people are gonna want to ask is that how soon after g7 becomes available will integrate with Omnipod? Five and control IQ? And I mean, what are the goals for that? on your end? I know you guys aren't the pump companies. But yeah, I

Alex Diener 15:22
can't Yeah, I can't get into specific dates, but I can't say that, like, everyone sees the tremendous value there to our to our users. And, you know, both on the Dexcom side, and with the partner teams, everyone's just working overtime to get that, you know, once once g7 is approved, and and all the all the regulatory needs are met, then, you know, get that get that to market as soon as possible.

Scott Benner 15:49
And then is the step there, then it's up to the pump companies that part at that point to submit to the to the FDA. Is that how that works?

Alex Diener 15:58
You know, I probably not the best person to talk to you in terms of like all the regulatory steps and sequences, but you know, I think you're, I think you're along the along those.

Scott Benner 16:10
Right, right? Well, I think it's just comforting for people to know that it's, I don't know why anybody wouldn't understand that it's being worked on behind the scenes, but it always freaks people out. We're like, well, when's this gonna start? I was like, I believe, I'm assuming they've been working on it for a while. So yeah, it's very exciting. Okay, so what's your I mean, you're the Senior Director of Global Product Design, that's a seems like a big title. What does that mean? What do you do day to day?

Alex Diener 16:38
You know, every day, it's about seeking design opportunities, and helping the helping the team that design that collective design team, you know, really, Chase chase these big ideas? How can how can we bring them to market? What should they look like? What should they feel like? What is the experience that we're delivering, and we employ so many incredible designers? So it actually makes my job much, much easier? Because there's tremendous amount of creativity and empathy for the for the diabetes experience across the team. I will say, you know, you mentioned earlier, like, hey, you know, have you have used products that, you know, you felt like maybe people who were living with it may or not have have tried it. Over half our design managers either have type one themselves, or are a caregiver for somebody with diabetes. And so I think there's a tremendous amount of expertise there. And also, you know, just to make it super clear, even those folks that who, who are not living with diabetes, everybody, you've never seen a company that is more mission driven, and more focused on educating themselves to the experience and what we're trying to deliver. It's pretty incredible. And yeah, so really, it's about you know, how can we make an impact for people? What should that impact look like? And how do we, how do we get it to market so

Scott Benner 18:16
let's break it down a little bit down. So we, everybody who knows what a G six looks like, understands that the transmitter pops into the sensor bed. And you know, you take it off every 10 days, and the transmitter keeps getting recycled for you know, the life of it, which I guess is 90 days if I'm remembering right? And and then you bring in a new transmitter, but G seven is going to be nothing like that, like everything's going to be one use disposable. Is that right?

Alex Diener 18:42
That's right. Yeah. So the sensor and the transmitter is combined. Yeah. So kind of takes away that extra extra step a little bit easier, a little bit smoother to use.

Scott Benner 18:53
What about the application process in? It's just like a, it looks like a little plastic cup to me, and you hold it to your skin and just press it down?

Alex Diener 19:00
Yeah, that's right. That's right. You depress it down. And once you get enough compression with the skin, you hit the, the button there, the release button, and then very much like G six and once you hit that button, you know, there's just that brief second where that sensor is put in subcutaneously. And yeah, it's, you know, for me personally, on some of those, some of those trials, you know, it's very, very comfortable.

Scott Benner 19:31
Good. Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, it's obviously much flatter. It appears to be, you know, in diameter, maybe like, is it even as big as a quarter? I don't think it is right.

Alex Diener 19:44
I I believe it's a little bit smaller than a quarter. Yeah, had to have to go back and look at the look at the specs. Exactly. But it's very close.

Scott Benner 19:54
So wearing it. More comfortable. You said?

Alex Diener 19:58
Yeah, you know, one of the things we We talk a lot about in terms of the wearable is the Z height. And the Z height means it's the distance from the surface of the skin to the top of the wearable. And, you know, with with G six, compared to G seven, there's a big, there's a big difference there a big reduction of Z height. So, you know, the daily activities like, you know, putting on a shirt, you know, toweling off seatbelts, these types of interactions of things that could make contact with your wearable, you know, we think that people are really going to notice, notice interference, they're gonna notice that that wearable, less, okay,

Scott Benner 20:40
so what about on the on the app side? Because I mean, obviously, we've got the device down to almost like, it's almost taking up no space in the world. So you know, that's, I don't know how much smarter, smaller, you can get it one day, but that would be amazing. But now, the apps really where you live, right? Like, once it's on, you don't think about the device anymore. It's all about the app. So what has what what are we going to see, like, in your opinion, what are people going to, like be struck by what kind of changes do you think will they at first see, and then what will they experienced over time that they really end up? Enjoying?

Alex Diener 21:16
Yeah, yeah. You know, I think, you know, as, as we kind of hit on before, I think one, they'll notice the fact that it's combined, they will notice that immediately, I think that they will notice that the height, you know, as they put it on their body, like wow, this is this is really quite at quite a bit lower. I think that they will also notice, you know, this new app design, kind of the more modern interface, card based architecture, a navigational tray on the bottom, that allows you to move into different sections of the app. 30 minute warmup time, is going to be transformative for a lot of people, I like that distance between getting the glucose values between one session and the next, you know, to go from two hours to 30 minutes is a big jump. Having the flexibility of grace period, you know, like, ah, you know, your your child is maybe going to school or you're about to go to work. And, you know, you don't you you don't want to change your, your wearable your sensor yet. So, you know, having that 12 hour grace period is is really key. For those people who prefer to use a receiver, that g7 receiver is, you know, a huge change, it's much smaller, much lighter, the battery life is far extended, you know, high high contrast screen on that. And it's also less expensive. So I think a lot of people will be incredibly surprised, pleasantly surprised, and kind of the upgrade on that on that receiver.

Scott Benner 23:01
Can I go back to two things I just want to bear, because I believe I understand you. But I want to make sure people listening are so in the app. Right now, when you open up the Dexcom app, if you're the user, it's just it's a screen. It there's not much more there. You can turn it sideways go to landscape, you can choose three 612 24 hour views. And yeah, there's like some settings. But that's pretty much it. It's sort of and that's what you mean, when you say card? That's sort of a one card app. Is that right? The way it is?

Alex Diener 23:29
Yeah. It's more or less Yeah, it's more like just one homepage.

Scott Benner 23:33
Right? Right. But But now at the bottom are we going to see icons are we going to see like swiping left or right. At the

Alex Diener 23:41
bottom, you'll have the glucose, what we would call tab, the glucose tab, which is basically your home screen. And then you'll have your familiar backglass, you'll have your trend graph. And then as you swipe down, you'll also have the clarity card. So it's a functionality that's offered that gives the user more information. So you know, it's like, Hey, your real time information, still going to be up front first and foremost. And then if you want to learn a little bit more about how you've been doing in the last three 714 plus days, you can go down to that clarity card and have that experience. Now you know, these other tabs, you know, history connections, there's going to be more on that in the future that we're going to build on that. You know, the g7 app is made for connections is made for integrations and everybody knows our share follow you know companion functionality that's a connection right and we're going to continue to build on that. So excited for what the future we'll we'll hold their

Scott Benner 24:49
will is there a updated follow up?

Alex Diener 24:54
It is in development but not the time timeline not not released yet.

Scott Benner 24:59
Okay. Alright, so it won't happen at the same time. So g7 users will see the new software g7 followers will still just keep using what they're using. Correct. Okay. All right. Okay, so the other thing I wanted to ask you about was the grace period again. So it's a 12 hour grace period. But let me put you into a real life scenario, the, I get a warning that says in six hours, my CGM is going to expire. And I forget, and six hours later, it's two o'clock in the morning, and I really wish I could change it in the morning instead of in the middle of the night. Does that work? That way? I can push 12 hours from the drop dead time. That's right. Wow. That's right. Well, that that basically covers the day. Right. Yeah. Right. It should give you the opportunity to put the change where you want it to be.

Alex Diener 25:46
That's right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. You know, and people want that flexibility. Like you said, it's huge. Yeah, you know, yeah.

Scott Benner 25:54
Yeah, I just, I mean, there's, it's, if you don't live through it, you don't know. But the idea of like, oh, I have to do it. Now. Whether it's Dexcom, or it's your pump, or it's anything like not now and I know, you know, it's funny, Alex, I believe that. Do you ever hear people say things happen at the worst times? When when's a good time for your insulin pump to stop burning? You know what I mean? There's never really a good time, but at least if you can get into the thought process of I control when this happens, and I think that's going to be a big deal for people. I really do.

Alex Diener 26:26
Right? Yeah, we agree. I mean, we pursued that change, because we really heard it from a lot of people.

Scott Benner 26:34
So are you working on the team working now on things that you think will be integrated along the way? Are we going to have to wait for like, like rebels? Or how Yeah, I think it's gonna be

Alex Diener 26:49
incremental, incremental change to the g7 experience? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're absolutely working on, you know, changes and upgrades to the to the g7 experience. And we'll be delivering that over time. As opposed to, you know, big, big changes only being reserved platform to the platform.

Scott Benner 27:09
Okay, yes, you don't have to wait for whatever comes after g7. Not that I'm trying to put it in your head that you need to come out with her. But you don't have to wait for the next thing. You guys are gonna kind of become like, maybe you could kind of do it the way Tesla does it when they're like, look, here's this one little add on, we'll give it to you in a software update. And here it is. I mean, I think that's, I think that keeps things from getting stale, which was, which is important. Plus, it keeps you from getting into a situation where you recognize, wow, we should have done this. Or we should have pushed harder for this, you know, back when we did it, and instead of having to wait years, which brings me to the question, are there things that were cut from the app that you right now think, Oh, I wish we would have done that? Or Is there stuff that you saw? Like, how does that happen in the room? When someone's like, No, we need to do somebody else is like, no, it's got to be this like,

Alex Diener 27:56
No, I think I think anybody in product development always has a wish list. And we have a long wish list. Right? And you're never able to get everything, everything you want into into one release. So yeah, we definitely have aspirations and future plans for delivering, you know, kind of more new and different experiences expanded capabilities. Yeah, so there's always things that, that you got to you know, pencils down. Time to time to ship.

Scott Benner 28:27
Yeah. Yeah, I just I would love to know what popped into your head when I asked, because I'm assuming the recycle. Yeah, that I would have liked. Well, I can tell you, that I, the years that have gone by since someone reached out to me from Dexcom, and said, Would you talk to a person once they ask you a bunch of questions about what you think about the app? It's so long ago, and the company is so different now than it was back then? I mean, can you give me a feeling for I mean, I don't need exact numbers, but the size of the group of people that work on this compared to that group five years ago? Is it just like before you got there? Like, have you seen that transformation in four years of things growing and becoming?

Alex Diener 29:13
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, obviously, as as, as a company grows and matures, and its, you know, aspirations, expand with it, it needs it needs a larger team. I mean, I can speak for the design team. I mean, the end end is I think there's also a kind of speaks to you know, how Dexcom C's and values, you know, product design, the product design team has, as you know, doubled in the last four years and we want to do more, we want to deliver more to our customers globally, and that requires, you know, a lot of planning a lot of a lot of thought a lot of careful thought and, and work to make that happen. So Yeah, I mean, there's definitely been an expansion. I think we also, I'm feeling like, ah, you know, there's, there's so much we can do. There's so much that we can deliver to people and the team needs to scale to be able to accomplish that.

Scott Benner 30:13
Let me ask you a couple other questions. How about a rate of change? I mean, it's it's public now. Right? You can tell me? Let's see. So delta, like, do I see in the last since the last reading, I've gone up five points or down three points or something like that.

Alex Diener 30:30
Rate of change is not in there. Okay.

Scott Benner 30:33
Well, if you're gonna ask me later, what I want, we'll start with that.

Alex Diener 30:38
Yeah. That's, that's top of your top of your list.

Scott Benner 30:41
I have to say, I think so. I think I think that's one of the bigger ones. I think other people might say, Watch integration, right, which I don't see as a. I mean, I don't know. But it to me that feels more like a limitation of Bluetooth and the hardware than it does other things. But I think that I would hear from people watching integration, for sure. I think Delta rated change is a big deal. I think it's, it tells you a lot about what's happening. In the moment, it gives you that feeling of like, okay, it's moving, but it's not. You don't you mean, like, I don't know why it's different. Like you see the arrow? It's because you don't have to remember, right, like your diagonal down. 96 The next time you look, you're at eight, you don't have to go six, I've moved eight points. You know, I mean, like, it just you just see that there. And it just I don't know, it takes away a level of I don't know, it takes away a level of having to think about it, which is nice. Yeah,

Alex Diener 31:40
yeah. I mean, there's a grant the granularity of like, you know, how, what is what is my ascent or descent? And what am I doing right now, that may have an impact on that? Or, you know, or that rate could have an impact on what I'm doing? And vice versa? Yeah. In

Scott Benner 31:57
that example, like, the way I would hit me is okay, the thing I did is working. And it's working the way I expected it to, or it's not, you don't I mean, like, it's, oh, geez, I thought it was gonna move farther by now. Or that kind of thing? So I don't know, I find that completely valuable. Yeah. What else are you said? You have questions for me. I didn't realize this was gonna happen, Alex, but we can turn around. Go ahead. What do you what do you got?

Alex Diener 32:20
Yeah, I mean, those are, those are my two big ones, you know, from from artists perspective, what is what does she want? And then you as as a as a parent? What do you want? I mean, ready to change? Got that?

Scott Benner 32:37
I think Arden would say that she wants one app to rule them all. I think that's what she would say. I think that if I mean, if felt like, absolutely being completely, like open aren't used on the pod five for a number of months. And in the end, she said to me, I want to go back to the loop. Because I only have to look at one app, one loop. And I don't have to carry another device, which I know some people don't want to work from their phone, and that's fine. But for her, she wants it to be on her phone. And she doesn't want a ton of different apps. So as the integration comes together, I think that's something everybody's wondering, which is how do you with your pump partners? Come up? And can you like I don't even understand and maybe you don't know, either. But from a regulatory standpoint, like I'm not even sure if you're able to but I don't want to have an omni pod five app and a Dexcom app. I want everything to work in one place. I would bet a lot of people would say that for certain. And then I don't know, just to become cluttered. Like what kind of a design problem does that become then? Yeah. So

Alex Diener 33:45
and that, you know, I think we responded to that. In our in our own kind of way. Our own ecosystem is like where people like yeah, you know, I want more access to my clarity information. Yeah, so

Scott Benner 34:00
and then I think on screen is huge. I don't know if this is a you thing, or an apple thing, or, or Android or whatever. But like I have a widget, you know, that shows where the hell's my camera. That's amazing. I don't order my own cameras. So I have that widget there, which is amazing and works terrific. But I would love it if it was on my lock screen. If I could see stuff on the lock screen. And I know a lot of people, parents of younger people would like to see treatments and boluses on the follow up. Yeah, that's a big that's a big thing too. Like anything that stops you from having to bug your kid, I think is a big deal. That gives you a little insight like okay, I asked him to Bolus and he did I see it here. Good. I'm done. Yeah, I definitely think that's a big, big deal for people. Now having said all that, and I know we're running out of time, but having said all that. What I love most about the software is that it fades away from you eventually. And so as much as I want it to be amazing, and I want to look great, I wanted to do all this stuff. I don't care as much. I don't think I care what it looked like, it could be an eight pixel. If it if I didn't have to look at it, you don't even if I didn't have to see it that much. And I think that after somebody uses Dexcom, for a long enough time, like we have, the truth is that, you know, I need rate of change, and I need the number and I need an arrow, and pretty much the rest of its is extra, in my opinion. I don't know, what do you think you use it? Do you agree? Or do you? Do you not?

Alex Diener 35:36
I mean, I think having additional contextual information is always great. And you know, certainly, you know, trying to get to, I'll give you one example. You know, I also love Fitbit. And I use aura, an aura ring for my sleep. I love all those different data sources. And I'm, you know, I'm a little bit of a data a data nerd. Right. So, I like to have that. But, you know, it would be you know, that's definitely something that is of interest of like, oh, yeah, how can how can you get that information all in one place. And I think that's, you see that with Apple Health and Google Health, right, where people are trying to get kind of a consolidated view. So I think that's a super, super interesting space. And always just trying to make sure that, you know, things are as simple and as robust as they possibly can be.

Scott Benner 36:35
And as you want them, I listen, every time I talk to somebody, I floated the same idea, it never happened. So I might be talking to myself. But as an example, if you use Adobe Elements, there's tabs at the top, it's like basic, medium Pro. And when you click on those tabs, the software becomes visually something else, you get more or less depending on what you're asking for. And I do wonder if there's not, not a space for a basic view? You know, what I mean, a more deep dive view, and then the the data that some people want that other people would find confusing, and then you just get to decide. I mean, I've never designed an app before. I don't know. But to me, that makes a lot of sense. You have one app could could apply to a lot of different people's needs. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Plus, that'll keep you busy for years. Alex.

Alex Diener 37:23
That's right. That's right.

Scott Benner 37:25
give you something to do. I know, we just have a couple minutes of ask you one question that I'm gonna let you go, right. Yeah. What's it like working in the health space where it's not just about how it looks, or how it functions, but it's about the FDA saying it's okay, or it's about it definitely has to work? Like, you can't, you can't say to the FDA, this thing's gonna be at a certain number, it's going to show me something that it can't happen, right? Like, it's, is that an extra pressure? Like, how much of that do you think about? Like, after you're done designing it, somebody else has to say, okay, to it beyond just the design perspective?

Alex Diener 38:01
Oh, I don't think of that as an extra pressure at all, because it's, you know, obviously, we want to develop, you know, products that are incredibly safe and effective and meet the needs of people. I think those you know, those other organizations are just helping us in that, in that mission, it's always good to have an outside perspective. And look at those things. So from a design perspective, I don't I don't see that as, you know, an extra pressure, really, the pressure inherently is doing the best job you can for the needs of people in managing their disease. And that's a we'll take that challenge all day long. Because it's it's incredibly gratifying both to hear from patients and from caregivers, doctors about that kind of the impact and so, yeah, sure. Is there is medical device development. slow and methodical. Absolutely. Is there a reason for that? Yeah. And and we, we love that challenge. Obviously, there's there's some days that you wish, I wish, you know, this process could go faster, but there's a reason why it has a certain pace and, and it's all about making sure we do the best we can for for people living with this chronic condition.

Scott Benner 39:23
Well, thank you. I appreciate you doing this very much. Hopefully I can have you back on after the device comes out. We can pick through it a little more. But I you know, it was great talking to you.

Alex Diener 39:32
Yeah, yeah. Scott. Hey, it was great to meet you this morning. You know, I've definitely listened to the the Juicebox Podcast a number of times and thanks for you know, thanks for everything you do for the community and kind of keeping everybody up to speed on what's what's coming down the pike and how best to manage It's

Scott Benner 39:47
my pleasure. It's nice of you to say.

First, I'd like to thank Alex for coming on the show and thank you People who helped me set it up. You know who you are. I know you're listening. Thank you. What else? What else I got for you? Oh, yeah, if you want to check out the Dexcom go to dexcom.com Ford slash juicebox Get started today with the next GM G six, you may even be eligible. What do I say in the ads, you may be eligible for a free 10 day trial of the Dexcom G six, find out more@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Of course, the other advertisers that I mentioned the beginning on the pod Contour Next One G vote glucagon Impend for Medtronic, diabetes, US Med and touch by type one. links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. Thank you so much for supporting the podcast. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, or type two diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast on Facebook. It's a private group with over 30,000 members Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. Are you looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series or some of the other series within the podcast? look no farther than juicebox podcast.com or diabetes pro tip.com or the featured section in the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, there are lists everywhere. You will be able to find what you're looking for. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.