#754 Cattle Drive

Natalie has diabetes but she doesnt know which kind.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
You're listening to Episode 754 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's program we'll be speaking with Natalie, who is an adult living with diabetes, she just doesn't know what kind. Why don't you listen and see if we can figure it out together. And while you're doing that, why don't you remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. My voice sounds incredibly deep right now. Bold within the Juicebox Podcast O T Wendy exchange.org. Forward slash choose box go head over there and take the survey complete the survey, please. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. I know you tell yourself all the time. Oh, I'm gonna do it. And then you forget, but could you please try not to forget this time? Just go do it. Thank you. I don't really have much else here. But there's a lot of music left. What else? Just wasting time. I don't know what to say. podcast is coming. And here we go.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by us Med and US med is the place where we get our diabetes supplies. And you could to go to us med.com forward slash juicebox to get your free benefits check. If you don't like using the internet. You could also call 888721151 for getting your diabetes supplies doesn't need to be a hassle.

Natalie 2:11
I'm Natalie, I'm 49 years old, I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. I've been diagnosed as a T two and labeled uncontrolled and non compliant. I've been suspected to have a lot, which is also known as 1.5. And now we don't know what type I am. So I'm a bit of a mystery at the moment.

Scott Benner 2:32
How long ago did this all begin?

Natalie 2:35
Well, gestational started. My oldest son is now 22. I've had three kiddos. So he was born in 99. And then my daughter was born in 2006. And then my son was 2008. And I think the combo of those two, only 17 months apart, really wreaks havoc with my pancreas.

Scott Benner 3:02
Interesting how nature has devised this amazing thing a female and it's it does this thing, but it didn't seem to plan for what would happen as these little human beings like suck the life out of you over and over. Exactly. You should really have like, I mean, listen, I'm not a deity, but if I was designing the whole thing like after you made the baby you'd be able to go like something like an EV charger situation and like charge yourself back up again. Yeah,

Natalie 3:32
magic wand. Just wave it in the body goes back to exactly how it was. Yeah, great. It really doesn't happen that way. No, not

Scott Benner 3:39
at all. It is fascinating, though, isn't it that you that you're an entity? And in order to make another entity which makes complete sense you have to give of yourself in a way that you don't get back again. It's it's unfair. Honestly, the only thing that balances the scales even a little bit in my opinion, this is just me speaking from my personal relationship is that I have to live with my wife Other than that, I don't see where I'm being tortured the way you guys

Natalie 4:05
well, I've already started brainwashing the youngest that you know, when when mom and dad get old, you have to take care of mom and dad, right? Sure, Mom, I'll take care of you. So I figure if we start the brainwashing now then maybe when I need it, one of them will take care of me in my old age.

Scott Benner 4:22
When my kids were younger, I would just sort of like in passing say, Listen, when mom gets sick of me and kicks me out. I don't want to live above like a pizza place or something. You don't mean like I'm going to need help. So let's say my dad I think yeah, well alright, and so you gave to these ungrateful maybe they're grateful kids? I don't know.

Natalie 4:44
It depends on the day I think.

Scott Benner 4:46
I'll tell you as my kids get older I I'm starting to put them in the same category as dogs. I understand that I've gotten something out of it, but overall, I regret the situation. But seriously, like, so you had these kids, you got gestational diabetes? Did it end after the pregnancy was over?

Natalie 5:09
Yeah. So after the youngest was born, things went back to normal. And I went back and looked at my my readings because I was a nerd and made spreadsheets of my readings when I was pregnant. And, you know, we really, even though it was high, for a non diabetic, it wasn't overly high compared to what I know now, right. So I barely, I rarely got over 200 Even without taking insulin, because at that time, they allowed you to take Glyburide during pregnancy, to help keep your sugar's under control. So things went back to normal, although I did have a doctor at one point tell me that, you know, you're at very high risk for getting type two. And I really didn't want to listen to that. I was in a bit of denial, even though diabetes runs pretty strongly on both sides of my family. So I knew at some point, I would, would be at risk for it, which is why then, about 10 years ago, when I was having a lot of trouble with UTIs. And I went in to have a urine test done. They found glucose in my urine. I wasn't completely surprised. So that was, again, about 10 years ago, diagnosed me as type two because I was very much a stereotypical appearing, type two, little bit overweight. And, you know, it runs in the family. So okay, you've got type two, here you go. Here's your Metformin. So I took the Metformin changed my diet, increase my exercise, but you know, I also had three small kids at home too. So started doing a lot better. Got to the point where I was doing so much better that when my prescriptions ran out for my Metformin, and my test strips, I was just like, Ah, I'm good. I don't need this anymore. And so, I did well, for a while, but then I didn't. And I didn't realize how badly I was doing because I wasn't testing. And I didn't have a doctor checking up on me. And I started to get a lot of not very nice symptoms. I was thirsty all the time, to the point where I would have multiple glasses of water on my nightstand for at night. Then subsequently, I was going to the bathroom constantly. I was crabby all the time, I was hot all the time. And what started to wake me up was I started to wet the bed at night as a grown adult. And my rationale was, well, I'm dreaming about going to the bathroom. So that's why I wet the bed, not realizing that my blood sugar was so high. And the my gums started to bleed. And at that point, I don't know what kind of shook me back to reality. Maybe it was having two accidents in bed at night. And one night. I was like, I can't keep doing this. This is wrong. I know better. And so I called the doctor got a refill of my scripts and my test strips and started taking my Metformin, again started testing my blood sugar again. And by the time I got back into the doctor, I know that my numbers had gone down by the time the doctor saw me. But my agency was 10.2 at that point, with a random number of cloud 260 something and the docs like Nat and pretty sure that you've been hitting five and 600 based on all your symptoms. And we've got to take this serious and that was really a wake up moment for me.

Scott Benner 9:22
Yeah, so I have to be honest, not like the bleeding gums sort of got me. Yeah, but the bedwetting I can see what your I mean, it's fascinating just to go back for a second that you knew about this got on top of it. And then the second you felt better you were like I fixed it or you know, I'm going to ignore it now. So such a common thing.

Natalie 9:46
Well, and everybody tells you right with type two that oh well if you just eat right and exercise, you'll fix yourself. This is all your fault in the first place. Because you ate too much. And if you just eat right and control yourself, you'll be fine. And I was never a, I was never a huge sweets person, I do have a weakness for bread. But so I, you know, I had salty carbs, not sweet carbs, but I was never a binge eater or anything like that, and I wasn't terribly overweight, I was in the overweight category, but not beyond that. So. So yeah, I felt a lot of shame and having it even with my dad having it. Luckily, I have access to all the test strips that I would need. So I had absolutely no excuse for not testing. And funny enough, when I started my career, I actually worked helping diabetics with their glucose meters. So when we talk about, you know, the meters that are big as a brick, I didn't work with with the brick, but I worked with the baby bricks that came after that. And that's actually how we found my dad's diabetes is I had taken one of my meters home, to learn how to use it, so that I could help people on the phone. And when we tested my dad, just a random reading, he was 350. And so he got put on oral meds, that very week, so I knew better. And that's the sad, that's the really sad part of it is I saw the symptoms. I knew it wasn't good. But between the feeling like a failure because I couldn't control it myself, despite the changes that I've made in my lifestyle and my habits, and just denial of not wanting to deal with it. And it was about a year that I wasn't taking meds, and it got it got out of control. Looking back at my numbers, I don't think I was below 200. At any given time, for probably six months.

Scott Benner 12:07
I'm trying to I'm seeing this correlation in my mind, and I don't know how to talk through it exactly. Right. But with a number of things, type two diabetes, a great example. Even COVID is a good example. You know, I think it's pretty obvious at this point, the more comorbidities you have, you know, you have a pretty good possibility that COVID could be harsher on you now, not to say that there aren't people who have, you know, significant comorbidities, and you just make it through, you know, but it's, you know, I think it's, it's, it's showing that direction. The idea that when somebody finds out something that's happening in real time, right now, you have type two diabetes, you you know, you have COVID or COVID 's outside your door, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's on its way, just to say to somebody, Hey, lose weight, because if you're in better shape, this is going to go better for you. I think that's true. By the way, I think that the better physical condition you're in, the better chance you're going to have to fight off an illness, or the better chance you might have to not develop type two diabetes is an example. But you can't just tell a person, go lose weight. And then six months from now, when that doesn't happen, tell them go lose weight again, like you're not doing anything for them in the moment, I think it has to be a combination of approaches. You know, yet, listen, let's try to get your body in better order. And in the meantime, maybe these medications will help you. Exactly. You know what I mean? I think it's a layered approach, if it's going to work, because most people go through, I mean, you're a reasonable person, I've been speaking to you for 15 minutes. Now you're well thought out, you're considered you don't appear crazy at all. And, and sometimes I sometimes I'm talking to people, I'm like, oh, this person might be crazy. But that's okay. You know, and my point is, is that this happened to you, you went back started strong, fell off, and then then, like, went off a cliff. Like you didn't just slow down a little bit. You were like, ah, like, right, writing it to the end.

Natalie 14:16
Very much so and, and that's a guilt that I carry. Because yeah, my doctors probably could have done more or said something or followed up, hey, why hasn't this patient come in something? But at the same time, I, I knew better but yet, I still let it go on. And then now I feel when I go back and look at that time period, or I look at my numbers. You know, I worry what did that do for me for long term? How can I help other people to not have to go through that? Because yeah, there was a lot of stress going on at work, whatever, but ultimately, if I was testing my blood sugar? I would have known that this is not right.

Scott Benner 15:05
Yeah. I don't know. It's just, I'm endlessly fascinated and not coming to any quick decisions on what I think, by the fact that we are, I think, as a species, very willing most of the time to just be like, Oh, I wonder what will happen? I'll just wait and see, oh, it's too late. No, well didn't work out for me. You know, like, it's a strange thing. I do it like everyone does it, you know, like, I should, I should hang up with you right now, Natalie, the end of this episode should happen right now. And I should go for a walk. I should go ride my bike, there are things I should do. And in the course of a day, it's funny, I've never ignored one of those things. And said to myself, Oh, I'm not going to ride my bike right now, I'm not going to go for a walk, because I don't feel like it. It's because there are a massive amount of things that I am responsible to do. And then when those responsibilities are done, I'm tired.

Natalie 16:10
At the end, you want to take just a few precious moments for yourself every once in

Scott Benner 16:14
a while. And the irony probably is that if I rode the bike first, I could do most of those responsibilities, and maybe not be as tired in the afternoon. Like, I'm caught in this. In this bad decision making, I don't know scheme. You don't I mean, that is set up to kill me.

Natalie 16:33
And it's so easy to say, well, if it was really important, you just make the time for it. True. But I think having the tools to help you make the time for it. Are a luxury that not everybody has.

Scott Benner 16:49
Right? And I'll speak for me, right as a I mean, I don't know how to put this, I guess like, I have some things going for me right like that, that allow me to make time or you know, see a doctor or whatever, like, you know, I have a lot of that. And instead of like enacting it, in my mind, it's always like, if I could just get this stuff done, then I'll do it. Like, I'll take care of myself and like my knee, which people have heard me mentioned probably for six months over the podcast, I gotta go to the doctor, there's something wrong with my knee. But it's not knocking me over. So instead of going the doctor, I'll record with you keep dealing with right, yeah, I'll take something to my son at school that he needs. I'll go watch my daughter do something. Like I'll just keep saying like, well, let me just get this done. I'll get that went off to college, or I'll you know, get this done. And then but I'm telling you right now, when I get them off to college, the next thing I'm going to think is I gotta clean my office. And then after I get my office, like I'm going to like, do that until my knee falls apart and I fall over and then I'm gonna be like, so you know,

Natalie 17:57
go to the doctor and take care of your knees, Scott.

Scott Benner 18:01
Hey, go lose weight, Natalie. So anyway, there's that, that aspect of who we are. I think it's an I think it's a bleed over of what you need to be to survive being alive. You know what I mean? Like, if we didn't have that, that Oh, push forward feeling inside of us? I mean, I think we'd all be, I don't know, at Plymouth Rock wondering how to get over the first river we saw, you know, yeah, yeah. And instead it's like, go, go, go, go, go. And it's easy to step back and see the big picture and go, Okay, well, this is humanity, some people's nice fall off. And you know, they tumble over on the trail, and their friend shoots him in the head with a six iron, and you know, like, and they keep going, and we that's how we're gonna get to Oregon, for example, people are going to be lost along the way. And I get that I really do. Like, I get that when a pack a will to be run away from a lion one of the Willoughby's die so the rest of them can, can keep going. But when I come in and look at a real micro at my life, I don't care about the will to beast. I don't care if we all get the Oregon I'm trying to stay alive. Yeah. And somehow those that that battle inside of us between keep going don't stop and take care of yourself. It's one of the biggest struggles I've seen people deal with.

Natalie 19:32
Yeah, I would agree there that it's so hard to find where the line is between where do I need to sharpen my saw? And and where do I need to keep cutting down this tree?

Scott Benner 19:42
Yeah, look at you. Would you read that? That's smart.

Natalie 19:46
I'm trying to remember what book that was. sharpening the saw

Scott Benner 19:49
took me 10 minutes to say what you said in three words. Now I'm embarrassed. I feel like an idiot. I was like, Why did I go on like that? I could have just said When do I sharpen the saw? And when do I cut the tree? That's really I'm embarrassed right now. This is what embarrassment looks like on me like, Oh, I'm so wordy.

Natalie 20:10
That's why you're good at the podcast. Well, great,

Scott Benner 20:13
except I'm sitting here now going for a walk. I'll be dead you all be better. How's that gonna be good?

Natalie 20:18
Yeah, cuz we can walk while we listen to you. So there's that.

Scott Benner 20:21
No lie. I'm being taken advantage of by all of you. So anyway, so you anyway, so anyway, after 20 minutes, I'm like, Okay, let that all go. Let's keep talking. What a transition Natalie I'm on fire today.

Natalie 20:39
Let's see after I fell off the cliff

Scott Benner 20:49
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Natalie 24:01
Then I really got serious and by serious I mean I was trying my hardest to manage my diabetes. So I did a lot of research, I would ask my doctor about a lot of things. I tried a lot of things I started liraglutide or otherwise known as Victoza about six years ago and that did help me lose a little bit of weight and we'll talk about that here a little bit more in a second. But it really wasn't changing my A onesies. I was living with a onesies in the eights and nines. And again when prepping for this I was looking back at my A onesies and I didn't realize my agency had gone back up to almost as high as what it was when I first fell off the cliff right so at that point, it was a 10.2 I varied anywhere between about seven and a half, and 9.8. Over those years and, and during that time, I was walking three to five miles a day, five to seven days a week, I was doing half marathons every month, five K's were scattered in between, I was exercising a lot on a regular basis. And trying any medication that the doctor suggested with the exception of insulin. I was very, very resistant to starting insulin. Again, partly due to that mentality that, well, if you just work harder, you'll you'll fix yourself and you won't have to go on insulin. The only type twos that go on insulin are the ones that are failures, right. So I tried just about everything I was looking back at my prescription list, I've taken all kinds of oral and injectable medications. I tried intermittent fasting, I read the diabetes code, I read the obesity code, like I said, was exercising a lot. And my agencies were still staying right around the same. And at one point, the doctor even checked, ordered the test for C peptide and antibodies. So that was probably about five years ago. And my antibodies came back negative. And you'll like this in light of our earlier conversation. I never tested my C peptide, because it required a fasting test. And I lived far enough from where they were drying the blood that I didn't want to have to fess that long. So I never checked my C peptide, which looking back, I absolutely should have known what it was then. Because knowing what I know now, I'm suspicious that my pancreas really wasn't working well. Even back then. So about about five years ago, I was only on the the GLP. One, the liraglutide. And my weight was dropping, but my agency was going up.

Scott Benner 27:32
And I was helping your weight or do you think your high blood sugar was?

Natalie 27:37
Well, at the time, I very much thought it was the medicine and all of my diet and exercise. I mean, I'm getting good at this. I'm losing weight, I'm, you know, losing about two pounds a week. So that's perfect. Well, considering that when the doctor then put me on long lasting insulin, because my agency kept creeping up. I gained almost 20 pounds in four weeks. And so all that all that weight that I had worked for two years to take off, came back on in four weeks. And I did not make any changes to my diet, or my exercise routine or anything that would have in indicated that yeah, you're taking in extra calories. And that's why you're getting this way. So I think I was dangerously close to DKA at that point, and just didn't know it right?

Scott Benner 28:30
Because it certainly wasn't your calorie calorie. Wow. Where did that word like I just lost calorie in my mouth for a second. We know how to explain that. It wasn't it wasn't certainly because you were restricting calories to the point where it would create a weight loss. Correct? Yeah. You were eating through decay, basically.

Natalie 28:49
Yeah. Well, and yeah, that that's, that's what it was. And so so so go on long acting insulin. Again, my numbers didn't get great. It was still in the low in the 8.5 to 7.5 range. Which, at the time, they were like it could be better, but they didn't really impress upon me how terrible that could be long term for me. And so you know, I just kept going along with it. Knowing that, well, this isn't working completely, but I don't know what else to do. I'm trying everything that I could try and my endo she did a great job of listening to me and letting me letting me throw theories at her for different things that we could try, but didn't give a lot of recommendations on how to make things much better.

Scott Benner 29:54
Yeah, it's funny. Arden had an appointment with somebody about a month ago and um The person ran a bunch of blood tests. And then yesterday we had to tell him that to go over the bloodwork, yeah. And the initial consultation that led to the bloodwork was honestly like three hours long. As a private doctor, we paid cash for it, we were in a situation where we felt like she wasn't getting answers from other people. And we thought this would be a valuable use of our money and our time. And it was, I mean, the person gave an immense amount of time to us. Tested for everything under the sun. And yesterday during this call, which, by the way, when depends on how you think of it, but all the big things that were tested for Arden didn't have, which was really exciting. But the reason I'm telling you this story is because they didn't the first five or six minutes of the Talmud yesterday, I watched the doctor, remember who we were. Yeah. And so while I had been living in Oregon, and anybody else who was in that room a month ago, had been living for the last 30 days, with this warm recollection of this doctor that gave a ton of time and effort and you felt like you had a connection with. And then that person looks you in the face and goes, Oh, it's that girl on her dad. And then you can see her look down at her papers go, I remember that. I'm like, Oh, my God, like, she doesn't remember us at all, like this love affair that I thought we were having meant nothing. I don't take that out on her or another doctor. Because in a very strange way, I understand that. Like, you and I are going to have a fascinating conversation today that I'm going to take a ton from. And 30 days from now, if you say to me, Natalie, I'm going to go, I don't know who you're talking about. Yeah, and because I have now I will have spoken to 30 other people 30 days from now.

Natalie 31:48
Exactly. Just the sheer number of people that you're working with and talking to on a daily basis. Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:53
but six months from now, when I edit your episode, I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna remember this, like, like it like we're right back on that first date again, and I'm like, I'm excited. And I'm like, Well, I think Natalie's gonna hold my hand. Like, like, it's gonna, like, it's gonna feel like that, again, it's all gonna rush back. I'm gonna put it out. And I swear to you four days later, someone's gonna go online and say, in the episode about blah, blah, blah, and I'm gonna think I don't know what they're talking about. And then I have to go back and make myself right with it. And then I go, Oh, I remember Natalie. And then I can talk about it. So the point is that that happens with your doctors, too. Yeah. And like, you're explaining like, oh, they let me tell them about things and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like you're having you or me or anybody. You're having a relationship with a doctor, that the doctor is not having back with you? Yep, that's all totally agree. Again, again, 10 minutes to say. Alright, well, anyway, I'm comfortable with how this all works. So I'm not gonna stop myself there. So are you a type one being treated as a type two at this point? What do you not even know at this point?

Natalie 33:00
Well, so yeah, so that gets interesting. So back in March of 2021, I decided that I'd had enough I was working really, really hard. It wasn't making any difference in my agency. And I'm like, I think we need to test me again. And so I went and had my antibodies tested, I got my C peptide tested. And my antibodies came back negative again. And my C peptide, though, was like non existent. There was some pancreatic activity, but not very much at all. And so that, to me was a wake up call. It was, Hey, you are working as hard as you can possibly work at this. Your pancreas is not. So we have to give it some help. And so, about this time, I also ended up with a new Endo. My previous endo left the practice. And so I had to find a new one. And I saw her for two visits. And she was awesome. And we'll talk about her a little bit more in a second. But then she also moved locations. So now I have my third endo in the past. Oh, I don't know. 18 months. So that's been a journey too. But the doctor that I saw back in March after I retested my numbers. I told her that I wanted a Dexcom and I wanted an insulin pump. And I want to get on this, you know, as soon as possible, and so she's like, okay, slow your roll a little bit. Let's get you on a Dexcom and then mealtime, insulin, and then we'll figure out the pump. Right. And so I started in March with that with an A one C Have a point three. And then by June, my agency had dropped to a 7.2. So it was, even though I had no idea what I was doing with insulin, they gave me homologue pens, and basically said, take about five units with your meals and keep taking your long acting. Okay? Okay. So looking back at my numbers, there was one time that I took my insulin. And granted, I wasn't below 150, I think ever. But I took my insulin and we'd had Vietnamese food, and I had a boba tea, and my glucose hit 465. Wow. And that was that was on insulin, right. So obviously, I had no clue what I was doing. Started the Omni pod in July. I wanted to start it sooner. But we had an issue with getting a training class scheduled. And they wouldn't let me start it on my own. And I desperately wanted to do it on my own. And I listened to my endo for a change. And she said, No, you really need to wait for trading. And I said fine. And grudgingly waited for training. But I was glad I did. Because my CDE or whatever their initials are, she was really awesome, and gave me a lot of helpful tips and tricks that I wouldn't have known trying to do it on my own. But within about two weeks of starting the Omni pod, I found your podcast, okay. And honestly, Scott, I know you hear this a lot. It truly did change my life. The first episode that I listened to was the was the rough roof, rough episode, something like that. And I wasn't quite sure what to make of it. But I really appreciated some of the perspectives that she was giving. And in that episode, you talked a lot about pro tips and the defining diabetes episodes. And so I went back and I found all of those and started listening to them. And I heard the not that type episode. And a misdiagnosed episode. And those really spoke to me, which is part of the reason why I reached out about being on the podcast because you talked about wanting more type twos. And for me, I've lived through just about all kinds of situations, everything from gestational to you know, trying to manage type two with diet and exercise and feeling like a failure all the time, and having people shame you about what you're eating or what you're doing.

To the point where now I know my pancreas doesn't work. And so I'm on an AMI pod, and Adex calm and I'm on full time insulin and then dealing with the same kinds of things that that type ones deal with without the auto antibodies. So long story short to answer your question. We don't know what type I am. I could be a type one that just doesn't have antibodies, there are a few of those types of people. I could be a type three C that has had some sort of trauma or damage to my pancreas. So my my endo that I spoke about when she was going through all my, my numbers. She goes Natalie, I really think that you would benefit from participating in a clinical study. And like, oh, yeah, what's that? She's like, well, it's for rare and atypical diabetes types. And it's called the radiant study. And she's like, I'd really like to recommend you for that if you're interested. And I'm like, Heck, yeah, if I can find out more about this. Yes, please. And so it's basically it's looking for people that don't meet the typical type one or type two criteria. If if you have antibodies, then you're not eligible for the study, because they know that in one form or another, you're type one. So I have had, I'm in the second phase of the trial now and I'm waiting to get my genomic sequencing results back. Hopefully that will tell us more about what type I am. But in the meantime, I'm treated as a type one. My Chart at the doctor's just indicates a typical diabetes. I'm blessed to have insurance that will cover my my technology. So I don't worry about losing my my Dexcom or my Omnipod like a lot of type twos have to worry. So yeah, it's just a mystery.

Scott Benner 39:57
That is pretty new. How like a year old Maybe the trial, the radian study.

Natalie 40:04
Yeah, it's relatively new. And when I talked to my coordinator, I'm like, I'm gonna be on this podcast. And do you want me to talk about it or no? They told me that I can say whatever I wish to say. My understanding is they are still open for candidates. So if you do happen to have a listener that is antibody negative, or has a really strange presentation of their diabetes, they might look into contacting the study, there's information on the website that you can apply.

Scott Benner 40:43
Okay, yeah, I just Googled three words, radiant study diabetes, and I found it Yeah, no trouble. So yeah, cool. Yeah, I think that's, that's a great idea to try to gain more insight and help people understand, but functionally in your life, it kind of doesn't matter, right, you just need to manage the way that your symptoms indicate they need.

Natalie 41:06
Exactly. Okay, as far as my treatment goes, and how I manage it, it doesn't matter what you call it, I know I need insulin. And so figuring out how best to use it, so that I can stay safe and avoid any long term complications down the road is my goal, right? And honestly, the only reason why I might care about what it's called, is a for insurance reasons, making sure that I can always get the tech I need, and then be, if there's any info that comes out of it, that can help other people or can help my kids, then I'd be interested in that, with diabetes running on both sides of my family, and with me having my kids are at risk. And so knowing what they might expect if there is a genetic component, can be helpful to think those

Scott Benner 41:57
kids are going to listen to you when you tell them that or they're going to act like you did back when you were like it don't matter.

Natalie 42:03
One of them will listen, and the other two will probably not

Scott Benner 42:08
know who you are, where you go. You know, you said something earlier about the first episode of the podcast you found actually, when you said it was that one, I was like, Oh, how do I even keep her after that? Because some of them are just made to be entertaining. You know, there's not much more to them. I do try to sprinkle, you know, goodness throughout. But I always wonder about that with so many episodes, like what happens if a person falls on the wrong one. But there's, I've come to realize there's nothing I can do about it. But but it's it's nice that you held on and you waited a little bit and that all that stuff was actually helpful to you. It's I mean, that's got to be a year ago, right?

Natalie 42:52
Yeah, that was almost a year ago at this at this point. Actually, it was last summer. So again, I I started on the on the ducks in July. And my first podcast that I listened to is one of the ones in the middle of July.

Scott Benner 43:09
I'm just I'm kind of thinking about myself for a second how bizarre it is that basically 18 months ago, I had a conversation with somebody. II mean, that that somehow, like grew out the way it did not on purpose that you've you know, you're recording with me now we're out this 40 minutes already. And I'm you can attest, right, we put no pre planning into this whatsoever.

Natalie 43:37
I spent a fair amount of time thinking about okay, what, what is going to be the important things to get across but knowing that this was just going to be a conversation that flowed and it would go where it went,

Scott Benner 43:48
yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, then on my side, let me put it into a different context. I was sipping water and cracking my knuckles like five seconds before you popped on. And I was not thinking, Oh, Natalie, like I looked at your intake form. And I saw like, I even I don't even know that I read it. I keyword it. And I was like, oh, like she doesn't know what kind of diabetes she has. She's a mom, like bah, bah, bah, like, Okay, well together. Like when you said you were 49 as I go Napoli's 49. So like, that's, that's part of the secret of the podcast is that I'm actually learning about you for real while while you while you're explaining It's, um, you know, like on late night TV shows where you see the host go. So I understand something funny happened to you at the zoo today.

Natalie 44:32
Oh, and it's so fake and contrived. Yeah, I think your methods help keep it genuine.

Scott Benner 44:40
And if we miss something, we missed something, but at least everything that comes out is valuable. Like that's how that's how I think about it. But it's cool that you found it and like how did you find it? So you're kind of outside of the age range for podcasts like seriously, what did you do?

Natalie 44:54
Well, I do listen to a lot of podcasts. Now. Granted, most of my other podcasts are like true crime. I'm podcasts

Scott Benner 45:01
always true crime, Natalie, what do you ladies have inside of your brain that you want to hear about how to kill people?

Natalie 45:07
I don't know. But yeah, it's kind of a joke in the family. Oh, mom's listening to her crime show again. And I do have my daughter listening to at least a couple of them now. So that's kind of funny.

Scott Benner 45:17
I'm just saying, your husband shows up dead. Just go back and listen to this podcast. So you figure out how she did it. That's all.

Natalie 45:26
So yeah, I, before COVID, I had a long commute to work. And so I would listen to a lot of podcasts on the way to and from work and just found it through there. And I'm guessing I was trying to found the podcast, I'm guessing it was either looking for groups on Facebook, and then finding someone that had mentioned it in one of the other venues of the Dexcom, or the Omnipod group or, or something. But like I said, once, you were right, that first one was definitely meant to be more entertaining than educational, I think but I finding the data defining diabetes episodes. And then the pro tips. I've had, I've had diabetes in some forum for 25 years. And yet, I thought that I knew all the things that I needed to know. But yet, there was so much good information or different ways of thinking about things to help me apply it in a better way. And so I took that information that I got out of defining and the pro tips and kind of ran with it, I listened to a lot of the how we eat episodes, because I found those to be very helpful as well, just listening to what other folks have have gone through. But one of the moments, okay, in, there's a few key phrases from the podcasts that really stuck out to me and of course, stop the arrows. And just don't worry about why just more insulin and and being willing to take charge and figure it out with the help of your physicians, of course, right. But being able to do that made a big difference. And one of the episodes with that was talking about pregnancy, talked about how it's so important when you're pregnant to maintain such a tight a one C. And it, it struck me that okay, if it's if it's important for the mom and the baby to do that, while they're pregnant, why isn't it important for everybody to be that well controlled all the time? Yeah. And so striving, having a much more aggressive approach to striving to maintain nondiabetic numbers, has made a big difference. And I don't know that I would have had that mindset had I not found the podcast.

Scott Benner 47:59
Appreciate that. I think that what happens is that I mean, doctors are people living the life they can, they can see what they need. But then they don't. They don't know how to follow through. Like, you know, a doctor can say to you, like, oh, Basil is really important. But then they don't do anything about it. They just tell you, it's really important. They don't then show you how to make it better, or talk you through why it's important. It's just this these like, you know what I'm saying? Like he just like, you know what you got to do, you got to do this. And then we stopped talking about it. And then nothing happens. I think I'm in a unique position, where I've been in the space long enough that I've seen things over and over again, so many times that you know, using like Facebook as an example. I can watch somebody post a question. And I already know how the whole thing is going to go. before it happens. Because I've seen it 50 times I've seen it 100 times I've seen people ask this question in one way or another. I know how low carb people are gonna answer it. I know how people are going to answer it who think like, you know, like, well, I can do whatever I want as long as like Bolus for it. Like I know the whole, like, I you might as well just not do it. In my mind. It's already happened. But for everyone else, it's very important to let it play out. And, and I, through watching these things play out over and over again. And through having all these conversations. You put yourself in a unique situation to understand what people need before they understand what they need. And so you can leave bread crumbs for them, and then hope they follow them. And if and by the way, my bread crumbs might not be perfect for you, that's fine, but you gather up what you need. And if you want to shoot off on another path. That's cool, but people need to understand. I mean, it sounds so trite to say like you need the tools and you need to know how to use them and you need to know when to use them because As your sharp Saul's not going to help you if you need a hammer. Right. So I just I'm very appreciative to know how this helped you. Because all I have is my ability to lay it out there the way I think it works, and then wait to see if it happens or not. And I believe that the popularity of the podcasts hasn't proven out pretty well at this point. I'm waiting for other people to figure out that a siloed approach to a siloed approach to medicine isn't going to work. Like you sitting in an office going Basil is really important. And then I leave the office and you don't tell me why Basil is important. That's never going to help anybody that makes you feel better. The person standing in the office, the doctor who goes I told him, but they didn't listen. You don't I mean, like you didn't tell him anything. And you very well may not know how to do it either. Maybe that's why you're not telling them I don't know. But you need a I'm like there's something I'm very like old timey in my thinking today. But you need like a Sherpa, you need to get a guide you need you need, you need the medicine lady in the camp, who knows the whole camp situation, and has time to sit with you and talk to you about basil because that's her job and she doesn't do anything else. I'm an old lady sitting in a teepee. That's what I'm telling you. You know what I mean? I think that's important. I think that's what I'm seeing working. And this medium lends itself to it. Unlike anything else I've seen so far.

Natalie 51:33
Yeah, yeah. Because I could go and find the episodes that were the that spoke to me the most from the titles and and start with there. And then depending on what was revealed in that episode, you know, you find other breadcrumbs to go to and more information. I know that I really didn't start Pre-Bolus thing until I was listening to the podcast. And and then I could see it for myself with my decks to see, oh my gosh, this does work. And it makes sense. But yet, it's scary sometimes to give insulin for something you haven't had to eat yet, especially when you're talking about a kid. So I understand why why people are reluctant to do it. But it works. Yeah,

Scott Benner 52:23
I so it's funny. I don't know what it is, in my mind that doesn't allow me to trade it at least in my thinking about diabetes. I can't trade like safety now for later. Like I'm I almost think about diabetes, like in that Ben Franklin. Is it a Ben Franklin quote, oh, God, now I'm gonna get this wrong. A little bit of security is that not the first we're gonna find out if it was Ben Franklin. So it's a it's a quote about the those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety, Benjamin Franklin, it's attributed to him as far as I know, and the Internet agrees with me. So I think it's been said a number of different ways over the years, it's so my point is, you can't let your blood sugar be 200 Your whole life so that you don't get low today. Because something really bad is gonna happen to you in the future, if you do that. So you have to set you have to set your country up with best intentions. And if along the way, you lose trying to do the right thing. I mean, to me, that's the risk, I'm willing to take, like, I want to, I want long term health for my daughter, not just a little bit of security today. You know, like I want, I want the whole thing. And if she can't have the whole thing. I don't know how to put this, like if I'm not saying like I want her to die. Like I'm saying that like I think there's a way to Pre-Bolus meals and to be more reactive with blood sugars and keep blood sugars lower and stable without hurting yourself. And that could give you a long life, a healthy life, because you might have a I mean less than if my daughter lives 75 years with diabetes and stirrups that and it was as healthy as it could have been. I call that a win. Now some people might argue, well, I made it 63 years, but I was sick the whole time. And I never once worried about getting low. And I'm like, All right. I mean, I guess one might make more sense to you. And one makes more sense to me. But for me this makes sense. And then the tools that I had to sort of develop to make that possible. I think other people can learn and if they want to use them than they should and if they don't want to then they shouldn't like I'm not telling any Hey, Buddy how to live their life. I'm just telling you what I did. And you know if it works for you, that's a bonus to me.

Natalie 55:07
And I think part of the problem too, is that, at least when I was being treated as a type two diabetic, the doctors were willing to let those higher averages just ride. I mean, if I would have acted content with it, they would have said, you might try to eat a little better exercise a little more. But they they weren't telling me about, hey, if your results are over 200 regularly, you're gonna have long term complications. They weren't saying those things, right?

Scott Benner 55:42
Because it becomes a management thing like for them, we have to, then you have to look at their situation, you're not the only person they're talking to. So all right, well, I can't believe how this is all coming together. But watch this. So when the water buffalo or whatever I used earlier in, they have a herd of them. And if they lose 10% of the herd, they still got 90% of the herd to Oregon. And, you know, we're cattle or whatever, I don't know, I think I'm watching 1883. Right now, I think that's what's happening. I enjoyed Yellowstone a lot. So I tried 1883. And I'm very much into this idea of moving cattle across the country and people, but not the point. The point is, is that is that they have a herd. And if they save most of it, they did a good job, because they don't think all the cattle are getting to Oregon. And you in that scenario are one of the cows and and if get to Oregon, yeah. And if one of them gets rustled or shot or falls into a canyon, they go, Okay, well, we still have these other ones. And and, again, macro micro is important because when they're sitting in a room with you, they do not look at you like, Oh, if I lose this lady, it's okay. Like, I'm not saying that. I'm saying when they step back, and they look at the scope of their job, they expect that that's what's going to happen. And if you end up being one of those people, then those are, that's just odds, they're not thinking of you as a person in that moment. They're thinking of you as, Hey, I got 90% of them across, you know, and that's important for people to remember, on the patient side. And I don't mean to be angry about it. Like I don't mean like go in your doctor's office be like this guy don't care about me, like cares about you plenty in that moment. He just knows that not everybody's gonna listen, not everybody's going to do what they're supposed to do. And, and that doctor so far, medicine so far has not found a way to compel people to do the right thing. So they know if they can't compel you the best they can do is tell you and then I think the next thing that happens is it becomes It must feel hopeless to them at some point. Like almost like, you know how they say cops can get they start seeing crime everywhere. The longer they're a cop. Oh, yeah. Right. So I think maybe with with police with police, it bleeds into their personal lives. I know cops, it does believe in their personal lives. They're just like, they don't trust anybody sometimes. And I understand why. Right? Because most of the people they meet in the course of the day are trying to get over somehow. And I think for doctors similar situation. I mean, how many people like you have to stop taking their medication and heading the wrong direction before they start thinking? Like, there's no way I can affect all this? I don't know like it to me, it seems like everybody doing the best they can. Whatever the perfect answer is, it either doesn't exist, or we as people don't seem to be able to accept it and, and stay with it, and run with it. I don't know why. So anyway, after saying all this, I'm still not getting on that bike when I get down with you. What do you make of that? Yeah, I'm as fortunate as the rest of you, how's that?

Natalie 58:56
I do wish that, that perhaps doctors would be especially when dealing with with type twos, instead of just simply labeling the patient as uncontrolled or non compliant. could look into it a little more, like instead of just assuming that they're lying about how much they eat, to have an opportunity to to find out more, because maybe they really are trying the best they can maybe they need to have insulin at this point.

Scott Benner 59:32
Oh, I agree. Yeah. 1,000%. And I'm saying that I think that there's a human failing on the doctor side, just like there's a human failing on everyone's side, like that. No one. No one seems to be able to do the right thing. The thing that they know is going to work over and over again, because at some point that drudgery just doctors have the same thing as everyone else does. There's there's a there's trash that has to be taken out of their house to you know, and so I think everybody gives as much as they can. There's times where I think, you know, I don't want to see a doctor right away, like in the morning, but I would like to see them late morning. But not if they're too hungry and not right after lunch and not at the end of the day when they're tired. Like, you know, like, it's, it's just, it's weird. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's, it's a bunch of flawed organisms trying to help each other. And, but you're right, like, like, functionally You're 100%, right? You can't just look at somebody and go, Oh, they're going to be one of them that I lose. You have to treat everybody like they're the cow that you get over the line. Yeah. And and that's where the that's, I think you're right. I think that's where the failing comes from. And then I think the follow through on their part can't just be hate only the Twinkie, it has to be why, and not just why, but can you afford something better than that? And what is better than that? Because I watched my mom get, you know, started getting borderline type two, a few years ago. And in her earnestness to eat better, she chose foods that were higher in carbs. Yeah. And she didn't know what she was doing. Like she had no idea. And nobody helped her. Because she just told the doctor, I'm eating better now. And the doctor went, Oh, good. That was

Natalie 1:01:15
what really is better? What does it mean to say that your numbers are in control? Because if you would have asked me a year ago, are your numbers in control? I probably would have said yes. But looking back at where my numbers were then compared to where they are now. It's crazy. My last a one C was a six. Oh, and the one before that was a 5.6. No. And I have never, in my diabetes life had numbers that low, you probably feel terrific, though. It feels awesome. I feel so much better. And I didn't realize how bad I felt before

Scott Benner 1:01:46
is your body coming back together with your weight the way you want.

Natalie 1:01:50
It's getting there. It's getting there. We're still working on that. But the it's funny because, again, I have to I'm a weirdo. The doc says that I really don't have a whole lot of insulin resistance, which is what you would really expect if I was a true type two, except when I eat my body seems to have a really hard time processing food. And so if you look at what my like correction ratio is, or my Basal rates, and then take a look at what my carb ratio is, it seems like my carb ratio is crazy compared to what the others are. And it's because I'm so so resistant to insulin when it's food related.

Scott Benner 1:02:29
Ardens is like that i Arden's Basal rates around a unit an hour. Yeah, but her her carb ratio is like one to four and a half, I think.

Natalie 1:02:39
Yeah, that's actually kind of really similar. I run somewhere between point eight and 1.1 on my Basal rates, and then my carb ratio right now is like one to six, or one to eight, depending on the meal.

Scott Benner 1:02:55
Can I ask a personal question? Here? Sure. Can I have your lady parts given up yet?

Natalie 1:03:00
No, they have not interested?

Scott Benner 1:03:04
I thought maybe you were like postmenopausal. I mean, you know, you'd be relatively young for that. But I was just Yes, yeah,

Natalie 1:03:11
yeah, no. And so yeah, I have those changes to look forward to as well. And, you know, before listening to the podcast, I never would have thought that my numbers or rates or anything was, was different based on the time of the month, but I actually have started to notice that I get really it's like, unpredictable. It's, it's not that it's a whole lot more are a whole lot less. It's like, at some moments in the day, I'm going to need so much more insulin, but then later, I definitely don't. And it's all in the same day. So it's like it's like my ratios go crazy. A couple of days a month. Yeah, hormones

Scott Benner 1:03:51
are are just such an impact. It's it's really something. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun figuring all this out over the years.

Natalie 1:04:03
Just probably know, what's more about things that you thought you would never have to know about.

Scott Benner 1:04:08
Trust me if you could meet like 21 year old me and be like, Hey, you have a podcast in the future about diabetes. That person would have thought you were pretty crazy and then got back on their motorcycle and drove away really quickly. So yeah, yeah, it's, uh, I'm happy to do it. I think it's fantastic. I'm doing it for my kid. You know, but it's, it's cool that it's helping other people. Was that gonna say it's gonna say something had a big thought, oh, here it is. I found it. So you are have spoken around on the cusp of an idea that you haven't dove completely into yet. And I'm passionate about it too. So I kind of want to push you there. But the idea of using insulin feeling like a failing and the idea of using more insulin than what I this is a meaningless statement than others. But I think you should be using being something that people have a lot of opinions about or, or that being something that you feel like is a failure. Like, for some reason, you know, using one unit at an hour, Basil seems okay. But if it was two, you'd be like, Oh, I'm using a lot of Basal insulin like like that, that way people feel and we talked about it here as much as possible. I don't like it. Like, I, like, I'm not gonna say, I'm going to seem like I'm gonna come down on two sides of this, like, I get low carb people, I understand them. I understand when their argument is if you eat fewer carbs, you're gonna use less insulin. I think that's right. I think if you do that, you take away a lot of variabilities and things that you need to understand and managing diabetes, low carb is generally speaking easier. It doesn't make it the only answer. And just because those people had trouble for years before they figured out to be low carb doesn't mean that that's not doesn't make that the only answer, it just makes it the answer that worked for them in their timeline I could take them is just gonna sound crazy. But I could lift a person up who's had diabetes for 25 years who lived the through the 80s and the 90s. And then suddenly found low carbon, it straightened everything out for them, which I think is terrific. But if I pick their life up out of the timeline, and move them forward, so that they got diabetes in 2015, and started listening to the podcast, they would likely never go through the things they went through prior to finding low carb. And I'm not none of that makes anybody's experience, you know, any more or less impactful on them or are worth sharing, I think all those need to be shared. But when they start making leaps when people start making leaps and saying, when you use a lot of insulin, it's bad for you. That's dangerous, because then you stop people who need the insulin from using the amount that they need. And so then you're good. You're good intentions, create problems. And maybe you're right, maybe this person should be eating, I don't know, hundreds fewer calories, carbohydrates every day, and they wouldn't need as much insulin. But back to the COVID conversation. Just telling somebody to do something, doesn't mean they're going to do it. And in the meantime, they're still alive, and they still need what they need. So I'm willing to help. Yeah, I'm very much against telling people that using too much insulin is bad. I don't like they need as much as they need. Now, you know, if you need a large amount, because your body just requires it. Versus you need a large amount because you woke up in the morning and drank a Slurpee with one hand while eating like bread dough with another hand like like there's an argument in there. I don't mind having that conversation. But it never gets made that way. It just gets the assumption is you eat poorly. And that's why you need more insulin. Stop it. And that's really I find that to be a dangerous statement.

Natalie 1:08:06
Yeah. And to be honest, Scott, I probably should have been taking mealtime insulin at least five years before I started it, right. And part of it was the doctor really didn't push because my numbers were okay enough. And part of it was I was vehemently against starting insulin, because of all the the type two, I don't know propaganda, but all the type two info that's out there that you can control this with diet and exercise. And if you're not controlling it with diet and exercise, and maybe some Metformin, then you're doing it wrong. You try hard enough. You didn't try hard. Yeah. And I will tell you that the relief I felt when I saw that result from my C peptide test, and I realized that my pancreas for whatever reason, is no longer working. And that it's okay to give it some help. I can't describe that relief. And nobody should have to go through that when they fight. You know, you shouldn't be relieved to find out your pancreas isn't working.

Scott Benner 1:09:16
So those five years create a potential damage for you.

Natalie 1:09:20
Yeah, yeah, because I was. I mean, I wasn't running in the four hundreds all the time, but I was definitely above 150. The majority of the time, most of my averages when I look back, were in the 170 to 180 range as an average.

Scott Benner 1:09:38
And I won't hide the fact that when my mom found out she was like, pre diabetic. I mean, the way I helped her was I put her on an intermittent fasting schedule and and had her limit her carbs. Yeah, like I'm not gonna lie to you like that's exactly what I did. And if it was helpful to

Natalie 1:09:53
her, if that works, if you've got type two, and that works, by all means, go for it and do that. As long as you can, but if you're working as hard as you can work, and your numbers are still not close to a normal range, then you need to do something else. Yep,

Scott Benner 1:10:12
you have to address the symptoms. Yeah. Right. Because you don't have an unlimited amount of time. And you don't get 10 years to make yourself right. Like, this isn't a psychological thing where you're, you know, you don't mean like, how do I mean this, you know, when we're growing up, and we are learning about the world, and we think it's okay, you have time, you'll figure out the friendships important, you'll figure out that kindness is important like that stuff, you have time to figure those things out. This isn't like that, you don't have time to figure those things out. Like you need to understand that you needed insulin and, and five years of you working your way through it. You know, you don't just miss out on a couple of friendships maybe along the way you miss out on longevity, or peaceful or peaceful health in your older age. And in

Natalie 1:11:01
my case, it was definitely health because during that timeframe, I mean, I had all kinds of stuff I had to go in and have an echo and a stress echo because I was having these terrible chest pains that turned out to have no explanation. You know, continued UTI issues that to be honest, since I've lowered my my agency and lowered my expectations for what a proper glucose ranges. I haven't had any. And to be able to say that after, after years of having him is is amazing for me.

Scott Benner 1:11:38
When's the last time you peed on your bed?

Natalie 1:11:40
Oh, gosh. A really long time ago.

Scott Benner 1:11:44
I would take just that as an improvement.

Natalie 1:11:47
That isn't when my husband would say that too.

Scott Benner 1:11:52
Alright, yeah, that must have Did you tell him or did you hide

Natalie 1:11:54
it? Oh, no. Yeah, there was no hiding.

Scott Benner 1:11:58
We need a mattress.

Natalie 1:11:59
It's the middle of the night, change the sheets and hope you've got a really good mattress pad on.

Scott Benner 1:12:06
No hiding it. Just like I'm like, I'm just I don't know, I'm, I'm picturing you just rolling the sheets up and trying to pull them out from under a very slowly, you know,

Natalie 1:12:15
sneakily? Yeah, that's crazy. Is there? I probably could have slept through it. But no,

Scott Benner 1:12:20
I I was just I don't know, it's my point was that if he just fixed that, it's well worth all your effort, you know, but you got much, much more out of it than that.

Natalie 1:12:32
Yeah. And honestly, my relationship with food is better. There were so many things that I wouldn't eat. Or that if I did have some of it, you know, the guilt with with having a piece of birthday cake to celebrate somebody's birthday, or, you know, participating in a family event that involves food and feeling guilty about having that food. Once I started insulin, I'm just like, Okay, well, I'm just doing for my body, what everybody else's body is doing for them. And so it helped me have a healthier relationship with food in general. Now, I'll still decide sometimes, you know, I really don't want to have that food at nine o'clock at night, because I don't want to deal with alarms and corrections, and whatever else I need to do all night. So it's just not worth it for me to have that right now. But it's not that I can't ever eat that.

Scott Benner 1:13:35
You could do it if you want it. So it's your you're making a decision. And it's this lesson, it's the same decision, we should all be making just with slightly different parameters, you're deciding, do I want to do I want to eat this, and then have to deal with what I need to do afterwards for the rest of us should be saying, Do I want to eat this? And you know, or do I? Or do I not save my body? Whatever turmoil it's gonna go through. Because that look, I mean, listen. I mean, this needs to be brought up once in a while by me, I genuinely believe that there's almost nothing that my daughter could eat that I couldn't figure out how to Bolus for. Right. I don't think that means you should eat it all the time. I think

Natalie 1:14:17
of your pop tart example.

Scott Benner 1:14:20
If my daughter never sees a pop tart again and the rest of her life, I'll be very happy about that. Just because I know how to Bolus for cereal without a spike doesn't mean my kid eats cereal constantly. But But I think there's a bigger picture. I think that when you have a five year old that just got diabetes, maybe taking cereal away from his heart, or seems. And maybe it seems cruel to you as a parent, and it's something you want to try to mix in. Now. My hope is that you'll learn how to Bolus for the cereal, but at some point recognize that, you know, crunch berries, probably not the way to go every day for the rest of your life. Right and maybe we'll figure that out and maybe you will Don't figure that out. That's not under my control. But much like with the conversation you're having about your insulin. I think it's unfair for people not to know at least, like, like, because the alternative is, I mean, this whole conversation is just cyclical. Like you're just you're hearing the same things over and over again, if a kid's going to eat cereal is the right answer. Don't eat cereal. Yeah, probably. Okay. But given that that might not happen, or that there might be psychological ties to it, or, or reasonings, or, you know, whatever. You don't just let their blood sugar's before 50. Right? Like, if they're going to eat cereal, they should learn how to Bolus for it. Do I hope one day they figure out that Captain Crunch isn't good for them? Yes, I really genuinely do. And and if they don't, that's not my responsibility.

Natalie 1:15:50
Yeah, because we can't, we can't know all the circumstances for other people. And so to say, Well, you shouldn't eat this or you shouldn't eat that. Maybe there's a valid reason why they want to eat it. And for you to be able to give them the tools that they need to be able to handle the insulin in such a way that it maintains their sugar in a healthy range. And then that's the objective.

Scott Benner 1:16:17
And your point really exploded a little bit to draw it out a little bit. A box of cereals, a few bucks, half a gallon of milk is a few bucks. And now suddenly, I can feed a kid for a whole week at breakfast for five or $6. And a dozen eggs might be two or three bucks. And the time to make the eggs isn't something everyone has. You know what I mean? Like, like, if you are if you live a life where you can get up in the morning and cook, you're lucky. You know, because most people are running out the door at the crack of dawn, trying to go to a job that doesn't pay them very much money. And if they're five minutes late for it, they're gonna get fired. Yep. Right, right. So people situations are a big part of that. And I'm aware of that, even as I'm saying, I hope you don't eat Captain Crunch. But here's the thing, if you have the captain crunch, let's figure out how to Bolus for it. So that you're not eating Captain Crunch and having high blood sugars, let's just pick one. And and maybe your situation will grow from there. And you'll be able to get out from under and maybe it won't put at least your health isn't going to suffer because of your financial situation or the expectations that the world has on you or whatever else is keeping you from you know, poaching an egg. Like right, which is a it's a thing you should be lucky to be able to do if you have that. And the same goes with lunches. And dinners. It's easy to say like, I mean, don't eat things out of bags, don't eat things out of boxes, like that's a pretty easy. I mean, honestly, if you're looking to be healthier, don't eat anything in a bag or a box. That's a pretty that whole food approach. Yep. Pretty fast way to help yourself. I think eliminating oils, like processed oils is a great way to help yourself very quickly. But, you know, if you have 20 minutes to eat in the middle of the day, I get it if you've bought a grab bag of Doritos. Like I understand, so I just don't think you should suffer for with your diabetes health on top of everything else. I don't know that seems like common sense to me, Natalie. But this is a long form conversation that took an hour and 15 minutes. And it's not just somebody ranting at somebody in three sentences online or your doctor visit the last 10 minutes or you know you're at Thanksgiving dinner when your grandmother's like should you be eating that? Like Thanks, Grandma. Thanks, Grandma.

Natalie 1:18:47
In my case, it was thanks to my great aunt but that's another story.

Scott Benner 1:18:52
Great Aunt pain in the ass. I got you. Natalie Natalie's got bread someone stopper.

Natalie 1:18:59
You shouldn't be eating that. And I wasn't even diabetic at the time. It was hilarious.

Scott Benner 1:19:05
Thanks a lot, sweetie. My wife had a grandmother who would look people in the face and go, it'd be so pretty if you weren't so fat. Like literally like a horrible woman, you know? Oh, my goodness. Yeah, just Yeah. And that's if you don't think a lot of people don't grow up with stuff like that. You're out of your mind. You know what I mean? Like there are plenty of people giving bad messages to children and two adults and they're hard to ignore when they're when they're being beaten over your head over and over again. You can try to joke your way through it or you still hurt it, you know? Yeah. So anyway, Natalie, is there anything that we haven't spoken about that you wanted to?

Natalie 1:19:48
I think we covered most of it. I one thing that I did want to mention, you know, we talked about diabetes. I guess I would ask that folks try to just be kind to each other because there are other forms of diabetes besides type one and type two. And maybe just trying to be kind. That's one thing I appreciate about appreciate about your podcast and the Facebook group, it's, you know, for anybody using insulin. So many of the groups get very territorial, if you will. If you're not this type, then you shouldn't be in this group. I think there's, there's room for us to have some understanding with each other, and some kindness to each other. Because not everybody fits into a category. Like me.

Scott Benner 1:20:35
I don't understand why people feel so compelled to be on a team. But God bless them. They really do. I mean, it's like, just make it a different team. If it'll make you feel better blanket team insulin, there are effects that, you know, like, Why do you care? Like I and I don't see it frequently. But when you do see it from somebody, it's fascinating. I've come to wonder to making myself laugh. But there are times when I see people post online, I think I wonder if they're drunk. Get any mean? Like? Yes, we all we all think we're talking to like someone who's upright in a chair having their full form best thoughts, but I'm like, I wonder how many people are like half on the recliner, half on the floor with their phone in one hand and have one eye open? Gone? You don't have type one diabetes, get out of here. You type two person like, I don't know who you're talking to. And you don't either. I would say I see people be very supportive, mostly. But you're right. When it's not supportive. It's vicious. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I don't get I don't understand why you care if someone's getting value from a spacer, and why does it matter if they don't? Exactly if they're not exactly you? You know? I don't know. Completely agree. Yeah. People are out of their minds, some of them, but not most of them. That's the good news. All right, Natalie, let's finish up by saying. I'm incredibly impressed that somehow I took the migration of cattle across the country and related to healthcare. I think I did a great job with that. And if I didn't, if I listen back later and go, Wow, you are not nearly as on point with that as you thought you were. I'm gonna be surprised because I feel really good about it in the moment. What are your thoughts?

Natalie 1:22:19
I think it went well. And yeah, I was quite impressed with how you compare cattle to healthcare.

Scott Benner 1:22:27
As it was happening, I was like, I'm getting so good at this. voice in my head, not like a scary voice, you understand not only where you need to be scared, but I was like, wow, like, I realized Joking aside, that these like, one of the things that will get me struggling to say something nice about myself, I don't want to sound like a jerk. I think that I've been like this my whole life. Like I like thinking about things. And I like seeing connections between things. I think that our minds work very similarly. And for some reason, when you change the color of the conversation, or you change the type of the conversation or something, people lose their minds, not just things have nothing to do with each other. But everything has something to do with something else. And the way people think, or treat each other, or treat people's diabetes or whatever. It's all rooted in the same. I mean, I don't know how many but the same handful of thoughts or feelings or inclinations that people have, like, like, we are pretty common at our core. And the way our, the way our impulses impact. Other things is very similar, like where it goes after that gets different because of variability. But at our core, we're all very similar. And, um, and I think the way we do things is pretty common throughout life. And I think if you could diagnose it in one place, it might make it easier to understand another place. That's all. But I don't know, like that all just came to me today about the migration, actually. 1883 You should all watch it, it's on paramount. Plus, I really like it. And you might look good. Anyway, I'm gonna let this go before I before I say something, I don't mean. So. Thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

Natalie 1:24:23
Thank you, Scott. I really appreciate it. And you know, again, just reminding people not to be afraid to start insulin if they're in that situation. And just advocating for themselves and their loved ones because that's so important.

Scott Benner 1:24:36
You need what you need. That's pretty much it. Yeah. See, I am able to make things short and sweet. There you go. I've been saying that through the podcast for years right you need what you need. Yeah, all right. I might have been right let's stop the recording and hold on.

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#753 Calvin and Frogs

Charissa is surrounded by type 1 diabetes.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 753 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today, Karissa is on the show with us she's going to talk about a number of issues that she's having trouble figuring out. Krista is the mother of a child with type one, the wife of a man who has type one diabetes, and she is the daughter in law, a woman with type one diabetes. diabetes has Karissa surrounded on all sides. While you're listening today. Please remember, please remember, please boy, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, and you're from the United States of the Americas, or are the caregiver of someone with type one, all you need to do is fill out the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Please go do that now and helps people with type one diabetes. It helps you and it helps me t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. My voice got very strange, because i Hey, all right. You ready for Karissa?

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes in pen is an insulin pen that does more than you expect. Learn more about it at in pen today.com. The podcast is also sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. Dex comm.com forward slash juicebox. And in the time, it took me to say that URL I picked up my phone opened it up and saw that Arden's blood sugar is 90, you can do that to more information in the ad that is forthcoming.

Charissa 2:12
Hello, my name is Karissa and typically synonymous with a yellow hoodie or a frog hat. I live in rural Missouri, and that's probably enough weirdness to get you started.

Scott Benner 2:27
I'm sorry, frog hat you said?

Charissa 2:29
Yes. When I joined the Guard, the guys did not know what they got themselves into. Because I showed up in a frog hat and rain boots.

Scott Benner 2:39
The the, like the government port like the National Guard.

Charissa 2:44
Yeah, the Air National Guard. Yeah, sub sect of the Air Force there.

Scott Benner 2:48
We fly planes out of Missouri.

Charissa 2:50
No, I actually joined in Vermont, and I was an aerospace ground equipment mechanic.

Scott Benner 2:56
Gotcha. So that was fine. I'll say why are we flying such like extra distance to get to the border? Like why don't we put them closer to the ocean? Shouldn't we?

Charissa 3:04
Well, actually, Missouri does have an Air Guard unit as well, as well as an active Air Force Base. They just have a different mission.

Scott Benner 3:11
Can you tell me what the mission is? Or do you not know?

Charissa 3:14
I don't actually know. I mean, I know it's like flying and stuff. How's that? Different jets? We were at 16. Although they've even the guard unit and Vermont has transitioned to the F 35. So

Scott Benner 3:26
how does that work? Is it it's not a full time commitment right.

Charissa 3:31
Now, um, it was a when I was doing it. It was one weekend, a month, two weeks a year training. And then I got to volunteer for TDY and deployments. And so I got to learn a lot and have a lot of fun with those

Scott Benner 3:43
TDY.

Charissa 3:45
Temporary it's, it's just a two week training. I should know what it stands for. I don't

Scott Benner 3:53
Okay, hold on. That's that's not a big deal. I just

Charissa 3:57
started I thought I knew something here. Like

Scott Benner 3:59
I do TD wise all the time. What do they stand for? I don't know. A big part of my life, though. I

Charissa 4:06
go somewhere for two weeks. And

Scott Benner 4:10
it's fun. Do you think you were the only person to show up that day with a frog hat on or whether, you know,

Charissa 4:16
judging from their expressions, probably guessed. They had other. They had had a few other women in their shop before. And when I when I enlisted, I wasn't the only the only girl in the shop, which was kind of cool. How long before? So I was in. So I enlisted in 2008. And then I took an active duty assignment in 2006 did that for three years, wrecked my back, moved to Missouri and so I'm inactive now, which is why I have good health insurance. But once the paperwork is processed, then you know we'll have to we'll have to shift gears there. So

Scott Benner 4:57
do you have type one are you the parent of someone with type one

Charissa 5:00
I'm a parent. My two year and a half year old son Calvin has type one and his dad has type one and also his grandmother. They were all diagnosed right around the same time.

Scott Benner 5:12
Yes, grandmother, the her son and her grandchild were diagnosed all around the same time.

Charissa 5:19
Yeah, so my husband was diagnosed first, and then like six to nine months later, he walked, my husband walks in the door and says, Guess what? My mom was diagnosed with type one. And it was it was like we had had conversations, you know, if the kids ever get type one, at least I'll be older. We don't have to worry about it. And we miss all the thinking signs. We just thought Calum was growing. He had recently had vaccinations. So you know, we attributed you know, some of the sleepiness to that growing and yeah, he went into DKA. I sent a picture of his breathing to my sister who's an Army combat medic, and she says, you know, that's not right. Take him in. And he had been vomiting and stuff, too, but he had kind of stopped vomiting. So we thought maybe that was a good sign. But yeah, when his breathing went south, that was that was the catalyst there.

Scott Benner 6:08
How old was Calvin was diagnosed. 16 months. Wow. At least two and a half now. Yep. I might call this episode Calvin and frogs. That's awesome. I know. Oh, that would make me happy. I know. Did you name him after Calvin and Hobbes? Yes, I knew you did. And I don't know you at all. And in four minutes of talking to you, I was like she named that cater for that comic.

Charissa 6:32
Oh, yeah. Yeah, my husband's a huge fan too. So it works out.

Scott Benner 6:35
Excellent. You know, I have a fairly massive Calvin and Hobbes tattoo on my leg.

Charissa 6:40
You actually said that on a Facebook post. I was like, that's so cool.

Scott Benner 6:44
You can't see it. It's my it's private. But although I could I could probably sign up with a little bit of like, lotion. Make it look a bit get look summertime ready and get it out for somebody who knows. That's fascinating. I really, I'm so pleased with myself that I figured that out so quickly. I could stop the episode right now and be completely happy with this. You all listening would be like wait, what did I download this for? But I'm completely satisfied at this point. Everything's gonna be a bonus after this. Karissa. How long have you been married?

Charissa 7:16
Um, let's see. We got married at the end of 2017. So not very long. Couple years.

Scott Benner 7:23
Yeah. Okay. Three, four years. You've been married kid? Two and a half years old and the other kids are just this one.

Charissa 7:29
Yep. Phoebe just turned 402 children.

Scott Benner 7:32
Yeah, little girl. Yep. Okay. Well,

Charissa 7:36
I wouldn't ever Phoebe if she was a boy. But

Scott Benner 7:39
listen, I don't know how to judge the world. I mean, I must

Charissa 7:43
mean, you know, if she decides at some point that yeah, gender reassignment is a thing she she could, you know, decide to keep her name and just say Phoebe as a boy. Oh, no.

Scott Benner 7:53
I'm okay with it. I don't have any opinions about anything. Do you think of that? No, that's great. I seriously thought. Okay, so little girl for little boy, two and a half. He's had diabetes since he was 16 months old. That's only maybe a year not even you're not even up to a year yet, right?

Charissa 8:14
It's been a little over a year, diagnosed October 2020.

Scott Benner 8:19
And how long has your husband had it?

Charissa 8:22
A couple of years now. Because he was diagnosed right after we moved to Missouri, it was actually a giant fluke of a thing that we even caught it. So that was 2019. Right? After Calvin was born,

Scott Benner 8:36
how was he died? How was the husband of the husband? How was that boy diagnosed that you're married.

Charissa 8:42
So he, we moved up to Missouri and I wanted to get us all into a clinic near our house. So I made us all go in for checkups, to do the new patient and processing and stuff like that. And they ran as a one C It was Hi. So they diagnosed with type two. He had so my husband is prior military as well. So he went to an appointment at the VA. And the VA nurse said, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but you do not fit the picture of a type to get tested for type one. He did and his antibodies came back positive.

Scott Benner 9:17
Okay. And then did his diagnosis lead him to understanding his mom's problem, or does she have her own sort of like, diagnosis story and how old was she when she was diagnosed?

Charissa 9:29
She's in her early 50s. And I don't know a lot about her diagnosis story, but I mean, they caught it early as well. She's still at able to manage with a low carb diet. Just trying to prolong kind of the life of her pancreas. And then I think now she does like a once a week shot.

Scott Benner 9:46
Oh, she's got some sort of a honeymoon going on. That seems.

Charissa 9:50
So they're both allotted. So it's very slow onset.

Scott Benner 9:52
Gotcha. So obviously your husband is Lada as well. Gotcha. Wow. Okay. I'm sorry, I'm stuck. There's so much there. I didn't expect I could feel I could feel my brain reordering everything that you've said.

Charissa 10:11
You know, depending on how much you want to talk about and what aspects your brain might just do this all the time, or like,

Scott Benner 10:19
Well, how was it becoming the wife of a type one? What was that? Like?

Charissa 10:27
So at first, I was kind of a jerk about it. I was like, you know, what, if your thing you deal with it, you don't want me out down your throat because I'm kind of a pain in the butt. Like, for real, I am a pain in the butt. Because I worry about everything. I will fuss about everything until I absolutely understand it. So when Josh was first diagnosed, it was like, Okay, it's your thing. You deal with it. Just let me know if you need me. And then when Calvin was diagnosed, that's when I really dug in. Because, you know, I manage Calvin's care. And so then Josh, Josh kind of got the aftermath of all of that. So I did and getting involved in Josh's care especially because you know, with his blood sugar's he was also kind of neat. Okay, when he wasn't taking care of themselves, so now he has a CGM.

Scott Benner 11:15
So his blood sugar's were high, and he was difficult to be around.

Charissa 11:20
Um, so they were mostly high. And that didn't seem to bother him as much. It's when he would get active and in a project, like a physical project, and he would go low, like he just said, some really mean targeted things that he doesn't realize.

Scott Benner 11:35
Gotcha. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. Oh, personal heartful like to everybody, not just you. Um,

Charissa 11:48
I think if he had, like, if he had, if he spoke to anybody else on a regular basis, it would probably be across the board. But ya know, it's Hmm.

Scott Benner 11:59
But lucky you you're there, huh? I know.

Charissa 12:03
And he doesn't even realize it too. He's such a bonehead. Sometimes

Scott Benner 12:06
I understand. So you basically learn things about Calvin's care, and then looked at your husband was like, he needs this help, too. Yeah. Okay. So you initially after saying, you're an adult, you can handle this. You learn more through your son and realize maybe he needs help that he doesn't know about? And then you jumped in? And did you kind of write both the chips? Or how are things going?

Charissa 12:28
So he's still primarily does his own care, he doesn't don't adjustments and his insulin, he doesn't track anything. So the only way I can really look at things is when I pull up his libre app and start sifting through it if I think he, like, if I think he needs something, and he's not doing it on his own.

Scott Benner 12:45
Okay. How often do you look at his stuff?

Charissa 12:49
Maybe once every couple of months, okay, so

Scott Benner 12:51
you're not totally you know, to involve to begin with, but you're also busy because having a two year old with diabetes is not easy.

Charissa 12:57
No, and it's been a monstrosity lately. Calvin was in the hospital about a week ago with a stomach bug. And so, like his body has completely changed in his management. So right now his body is absorbing glucose so slowly that I actually have to give the carbs a lead time before I dose and I'm dosing it in half unit increments, kind of like a pump instead of you know, if he eats so many carbs, I'll give him a unit. I can't do that. It'll crash it, so I have to stagger the half units.

Scott Benner 13:29
Yeah, how much is the way

Charissa 13:32
he was 30 pounds. He lost like we all lost a lot of fluids with this virus except for Josh. Josh actually came out of it. Okay. But when I had it, I had it right before he did, and I had been having some gastrointestinal issues, so I thought it anyway so I thought it was that and then Calvin got sick and I lost like eight pounds of fluids on that Virus.

Scott Benner 13:53
Virus COVID

Charissa 13:56
No, just a stomach bug. We actually had COVID twice already.

Scott Benner 13:59
Look at you. overachievers

Charissa 14:02
I hate it. Like we got vaccinated to like that's the not funny part. Like come on. Yeah.

Scott Benner 14:08
You don't you live in the middle of nowhere. How did you meet enough people to get what's going on?

Charissa 14:15
I go grocery shopping once a week.

Scott Benner 14:18
You can't? Yeah, you can't do that. You have to have the food AirDrop. If these people are not going to take it seriously and give you the COVID

Charissa 14:26
Oh, Misery doesn't misery is very, you know, everybody's gonna get it. Why worry about it? And so that's kind of

Scott Benner 14:34
Yeah, was it? Was it any different the first time well, so real quickly, just asking you. You were vaccinated when you got the first time? Yeah. And how was the experience of being sick?

Charissa 14:45
Um, so the first time I was mostly just tired, Josh lost his sense of smell. The second time it really kicked my butt because it kind of just flared up everything I already had going on. So I had muscle aches. I was tired like my joints hurt. or like it was just miserable.

Scott Benner 15:01
Gotcha. Did it last any longer or shorter the first or second time?

Charissa 15:06
I feel like it lasted a little longer than second time too. I had COVID fatigue for an extra couple of weeks after that.

Scott Benner 15:12
How about the kids that began it?

Charissa 15:15
Um, so the first time that kids didn't miss a beat the second time, Calvin's blood sugar's acted like he was sick, but he didn't show any physical symptoms. It was weird.

Scott Benner 15:24
That's interesting. Wow. How old are you? 36. Okay. I don't know why that makes it. Okay. Like if for some reason. If you're in your 20s I'd be like, oh, goodness, but then I was like, alright, she can handle this.

Charissa 15:36
Yeah, well, so here's the other thing. My husband's dad got COVID and he's unvaccinated had some health issues. We found out he had to open right before Thanksgiving. And he ended up dying a week later, Josh had to make an emergency trip out to Arizona. I'm sorry. And his blood sugar's during that period. Were really interesting. Your husband's

Scott Benner 15:56
where? Yeah, from adrenaline and anxiety. You think things like that?

Charissa 16:03
Mostly adrenaline Joash does not typically a debit physical symptoms of being stressed out, but you could see it in his blood sugar. Yeah,

Scott Benner 16:12
you can see it in my face.

Charissa 16:16
I'm still looking at your pictures you don't look particularly stressed right now. And

Scott Benner 16:20
that photo I was I was like six days into a week off. And I I hadn't been around. I hadn't been around diabetes for like, for a while. And I was somewhere where the weather was nice. And my son was having fun and it was a lot going on there that day, but when I'm upset you can you get to see it my face. Yeah, I'm not particularly good at hiding it. I don't believe

Charissa 16:42
Oh, no. Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:44
Okay. Wow, there's what made you want to come on the podcast?

Charissa 16:48
I actually wanted my husband to come on, because

Scott Benner 16:53
this is going great, then.

Charissa 16:56
Now it's fine. Um, I just I I get nervous. Clearly. My words I start shaking. Like I'm kind of a hot mess.

Scott Benner 17:06
We Oh, wait, hold on sooner. What do you mean? Clearly you think you've come off as nervous so far?

Charissa 17:11
Yeah. Well, I mean, I like shaking. You're shaking? Yeah, a little bit of coffee.

Scott Benner 17:20
Well, I mean, listen, from my perspective, you're not nervous. That's positive, positive. So you Why did you want him to come on?

Charissa 17:30
Because the story is just really interesting. And so his diagnosis, you know, he was diagnosed and then if mom was diagnosed as son has diagnosed like, it's a different perspective from me because I can still kind of stay disconnected. You know, he had to deal with all of this diabetes while dealing with his own. We're not dealing with his own diabetes, because he wasn't at the time. I mean, that's beside the point. But his onset to so Calvin's birth was actually a little traumatic. We were moving out of base housing out of Florida. And I got preeclampsia. The week we were moving. So we were supposed to move to Missouri on a Friday, I ended up in the hospital and um, on a Monday, Calvin was born by emergency C section on the Saturday, Josh wanted to come be with me and I told him, No, you need to close up this house because we are not staying in Florida. And so he and he had Phoebe with him. She was 18 months all the time. So he was trying to close up the house with a toddler while his wife is in the hospital. Not sure if she was going to be okay. And then his son was born. The hospital called him late. It was

Scott Benner 18:37
a mess. Yeah. That's nice. And so you thought that his perspective on that story was interesting because he got diabetes first, and then got to watch it happen around him to other times.

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Charissa 23:43
Right. And he like in retrospect, he kind of thinks that that whole sequence of events may have been what triggered his diabetes because he didn't get sick or anything like that. Like there was no obvious catalyst except that time of stress.

Scott Benner 23:59
So the birth weight you're seeing around Calvin's birth and the the changing of the house was very stressful for your husband. Yes, obviously. And then he then he gets his diagnosis soon after that. Yep. Gotcha. Are there other autoimmune diseases in his family?

Charissa 24:18
Not so far. Um, he had mentioned. So when we first got together, you know, we had talked about diabetes because my grandpa had type two diabetes, and he had mentioned some of his other family members, like great aunts and uncles. Maybe it's just great uncles. I don't know somebody had something getting dated, but we never connected it because back then diabetes was just diabetes. We never connected it as type one. You're just like, okay, they had diabetes runs on both sides or families.

Scott Benner 24:44
Okay, and this was like some great uncle that might have had type one. Yeah, all right. But you don't see any other stuff celiac? How about people who are like crazy like, allergic to things or not yet. Do you guys talk enough that you would know?

Charissa 25:03
Um, so my family history kind of, I kind of find out things in pieces. And I think his is the same way. So, I was tested for celiac 10 years ago came back negative Calvin was tested at diagnosis and while he was in the hospital, because I guess they do that annually now that he's type one, which is great, that makes me really happy. So, you know, no, no positive. You know, they're just Josh's family history. You know, his dad had some health issues, but they were surrounding his, like blood clots. He had some blood clot issues. So nothing we know about autoimmune there. And then on his mom's side, on his mom's side, it's just the diabetes. Oh, you know what? There is something. So dementia runs on both sides of my family, my grandma on my mom's side, or on my dad's side had Alzheimer's. My grandma on my mom's side had Lewy Body disease, which is another form of dementia. So I know you posted something about the Alzheimer's. That's why I was really, really interested in that.

Scott Benner 26:14
Yeah, I think that those are that there's enough research around that that talks about inflammation that makes you just kind of wonder, get on me.

Charissa 26:23
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And yeah, cuz I did some additional reading and the evidence, you know, connecting all of these auto immunities is pretty damning.

Scott Benner 26:33
Yeah, no, no. Let's see. I'm looking at something about his missus maybe involved in the body Lewy body dementia. Okay, so this is from the NIH T cells, which are key players in the body's immune system may be involved in the degeneration of neurons and Lewy Body. According to an IA supported study, researchers at Stanford, Northwestern identify how a certain type of T cells which is involved in autoimmune disease may travel to the brain to destroy neurons. So good times.

Charissa 27:13
Yeah, I'm gonna lose my frickin mind.

Scott Benner 27:16
Probably not, you know, or maybe whatever.

Charissa 27:20
I'm just rolling with it. It's like, you know what, I'm just gonna be bonkers. When I get old. It's cool. women in my family lives forever. So I'm just not going to know anything.

Scott Benner 27:30
Just be old and like, just like, listen, let me tell you a story. So we were away this weekend. And my mom is 79. She's just gotten her third round of chemotherapy. She's doing well, by all accounts. And she says to me, um, you know, take some pictures while you're out looking at colleges with Arden and send them to me. All right. So I sent her a number of pictures. She's 79. So it's not like she she doesn't hear the ding and go right to her text. Like usually I know if I text my mom, something I might hear back from about it in the day or so. And next day, she I get this phone call from her. She was hey, who's this guy in this photo with Arden. And I'm like, What is she talking about? I was like, What photo mom and she goes, she describes the picture to me and I opened up on my my text messages. That's me, mom. And she goes, that's you? And I said, Yeah, she was oh, I can't believe I didn't recognize you. I was like me either. And then I'm like, I'm texting my brothers. I'm like sending the picture to my brother's like, Mom doesn't know who the guy in this photo is. Like, I think we should start with getting her eyes checked. You know, let's let's hope for that, you know, but I don't know what's gonna be like, I'm sitting here right now telling you I can't I'm not certain why my mom doesn't recognize me in a photograph. I mean, sure. I photograph way handsomer than I am in person, right? I mean, I'm basically a model. But it shouldn't be that confusing. And, you know, I mean, can you imagine if you knew when you were 36 that that might happen one day, who would care? You don't? I mean? Like, like, Who would care? Like it's too far into the future? Screw it. Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Charissa 29:16
No, I really don't. It's just It's something I've kind of accepted as a possibility. There's not a lot of worry there.

Scott Benner 29:25
Good, good. Perfect. Sorry, I'm answering a text. I don't mean to do that. But it's yeah, I'm trying to Well, I guess more like COVID related craziness. We've had a we had a leak in our shower. Oh, no. And, you know, so we contact a lifelong friend who's a builder. And I'm like, Hey, listen. I need my shower fixed. This is July. For context. We're speaking now in the middle of February. And he goes, Yeah, sure, beginning of the year, and I win You can't just fix my shower prior to six months, like like, from now on. He's like, No, I was like, he goes COVID No way, like COVID. I was like, hold on a second. I swear people just using this as an excuse now. Like, what's happening? Exactly. And he said, all of my jobs are behind because I can't get materials. Like, oh, no kidding. That's crazy. And I didn't think of that. You know what I mean? So hold on one second. So he just tried to call me.

Charissa 30:40
Oh, yeah, you don't want to miss that if you're

Scott Benner 30:42
telling my wife

I'm telling my wife, who will almost assuredly say you can just call him when it's I would do the same thing now. You'll be done like an hour. Just call him then. I'm now I've sent her all the information. What happens next? No one knows. But I like it. My wife's been like, since she was 20. Like, she's like, I'll do it and like, go ahead. And she's like

Charissa 31:31
so i There are definitely things I push to my husband just because I can now I had to deal with when I was single. So my tire blew on Friday, like blew on the freeway. I'm on the side of the road. I met, you know, call the tow truck. So the cars been up the shop since then. And this morning, you know, we needed to go bring the keys. And you know, Josh brought up I could do it and I could go get my coffee and or, or you can do it and you can bring the coffee. And he did and it's wonderful.

Scott Benner 32:06
Yeah, I don't have that. I gotta be honest. I at one point this morning, you know, I so we get home last night. Like we drove Thursday 15 hours, like straight shot. Then, you know, ate something we shouldn't have eaten too late at night, went to bed got up in the morning. Did a whole day of like sightseeing. I'm not sure what happened to my voice just then sightseeing going around this college campus trying to figure things out that we got there a day prior to when the tour was so we could you know, kind of get the lay of the land and figure things out. Next day, full tour all day. Massive day my knee sore at the end of the day. Very unpleasant. And oh boy, hold on a second. And then I'm sorry, I'm laughing because my wife just texted me back. Just call him when you're done. It'll be fine. I can't schedule anything. I can't see your calendar. My iPad is like right next to where she is right now. She could pick it up and look at my calendar. But she means it's not on her phone. So anyway, this seems like she doesn't want to be involved in this

Charissa 33:19
as unfair as it is I'm totally on her side though.

Scott Benner 33:22
I would do man she grew up across the street from she's known him her entire life

Charissa 33:29
I just don't do I listen.

Scott Benner 33:31
I see how it is so anyway, all day Saturday do this tour you know eat some dinner go to bed get up drive 15 hours home you know get home last night you know crawl into bed all of us like we all just like it's just me Arden and Kelly we gotten up our bed like we're sitting there like let's just put one TV show on before we go to bed. They pick a TV show I freakin hate. Then I get up this morning. I've got to go get the dogs from the kennel before I talk to you. So I'm rushing around like a lunatic. The lady at the kennel is trying to be like cordial. And I'm like, Honey, I gotta go. running out the door to come speak with you. And then in the middle of it. The guy had been waiting for a phone call from for eight months calls. And I'm like, Hey, can you just text him? She's like, No, I can't do it. And I just want that story to sit here for all the time in memoriam so that any men who might hear it in the future will know what to expect. I drove the entire trip both directions and other people in the car like we could drive we could drive just ask I was like, You don't mean that. So?

Charissa 34:41
Well, I mean. So in my husband case, in my husband's case, he actually won't let me drive because he's terrified of my driveway. He hates it. He would rather just drive to exhaustion because he doesn't want to deal with my stuff. Why is your driving

Scott Benner 34:55
so bad? It's not he's just dramatic. Is his blood sugar was high? Hey, looking back, do you see any things about your husband's diabetes that may have existed longer? Or before you knew he had Lada?

Charissa 35:14
No, because he did mentioned that he was thirsty all the time. But he didn't tell me about it. Kind of did this thing,

Scott Benner 35:20
how long it was, how long did he in hindsight, tell you? He had been thirsty for like years of thirst or months? Or

Charissa 35:29
maybe a month or two? Oh, God, not anything significant.

Scott Benner 35:32
I gotcha. So what do you find interesting about his story? I mean, he's not here. By the way, how did this happen? As you say, you should be on the podcast. He's like, I'm not doing that you do it.

Charissa 35:41
So when I brought it, like when I brought it up on the Facebook page, cuz you had posted looking for people, and I was like, Oh, my husband should do it. That's the weekend. That's the week his dad died, so I never brought it up.

Scott Benner 35:54
Oh, why should you put the cart before the horse?

Charissa 35:57
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I wanted to talk to him about doing it.

Scott Benner 36:02
And then it just never happened that way.

Charissa 36:06
No. And I did, like mentioned much, much later, as, you know, when I told him, but I was gonna do it. I was like, Yeah, I really wanted you to do it. But you know, that's the week you're dead dead. So I didn't feel comfortable bringing it up. And then you posted looking for somebody who had, you know, another autoimmune disease? And I was like, Well, I don't, but I've been tested for everything.

Scott Benner 36:26
Why have you been tested for everything? Because I

Charissa 36:29
have unexplained joint pain and fatigue, and a host of symptoms that I can't even remember in any given date and time unless I'm experiencing it. It's frustrating. Have

Scott Benner 36:40
you had them your whole life? Or are they something that's new?

Charissa 36:42
There, so they kind of, they have different onset times. Like the joint pain started in 2018, after Phoebe was born after. So in 2018, I had an MRI, and they showed a minor back injury. And then I got sent back to work, we can sell the equipment mechanics, and they the doctors on the Air Force Base told me Oh, it'll fix itself. It did not it got worse. So I had to have surgery eventually. But the joint pain started post that. And so I ended up being tested like so even while I was pregnant with Calvin they tested for actually, I have a spreadsheet for this. My memory is not great. So I have a spreadsheet for every No,

Scott Benner 37:30
no, this is crazy of a spreadsheet for your pain. I love it, get it out.

Charissa 37:34
I have a spreadsheet sheet for symptoms, I have a spreadsheet for every bit of bloodwork that I have record of I want

Scott Benner 37:42
to hear about a lot of this. So tell me when it's in front of you. Okay, so I've got it pulled up. Let's see jumping to 2018. You're, like 3233 years old, you would have done this prior to that.

Charissa 38:00
I'm sorry to say that one more time. I

Scott Benner 38:01
said, this was about three or so years ago, but you didn't have any of this pain prior to that. So prior to your early 30s.

Charissa 38:08
Nope. Um, prior to my early 30s, I had gastrointestinal issues. And so that's also been kind of a thing. But I just figured well, so I just figured I had food intolerances like out gluten free for a lot of years. But before I got pregnant, I started eating gluten. Again, just in like small amounts, because I didn't want I don't know if this is logical. But this was my theory at the time. I didn't want my kids to have a reaction to gluten because they hadn't been exposed to it.

Scott Benner 38:39
So you tried to expose them in utero? Yes. Did it make you be pants again? Did you like to bother your belly?

Charissa 38:47
So it really didn't. So I had read that pregnancy is more synonymous with constipation. So I figured they would kind of balance each other out.

Scott Benner 38:59
Crossing your mind kind of mad scientist keep going.

Charissa 39:03
Like for once in my life, my system just kind of worked. I was like, alright,

Scott Benner 39:09
so you're better pregnant things work better when you're pregnant.

Charissa 39:12
Only in that respect, other than that pregnancy was miserable. I hated it. But the kids are cool. So it's alright.

Scott Benner 39:18
Okay. So okay, so you did that. And then after having your daughter, you started experiencing joint pain? Yes. Where what joints? All all of them down to wrists, fingers. ankles. Okay.

Charissa 39:36
Yes. Although in retrospect the knee and ankle pain could actually have been related to the back injury as opposed to actual joint.

Scott Benner 39:47
So the back maybe had your gait off and maybe messed with your other joints? All right.

Charissa 39:53
Yeah. Because I mean from so from, from kind of the waist down well, not the way from The lower back down, you know, I have I have nerve pain issues. And so those will manifest in my knees and my ankles.

Scott Benner 40:09
Hurting. Yes. And for how long and how frequently

Charissa 40:16
so right now it's not as bad. So I have a spinal cord stimulator implant. But before I had the back surgery, it was it was whenever I'd be up and moving. Just the pressure would, you know cause the cause the nerve endings to bottom out and cause pain in those areas?

Scott Benner 40:38
What was the back injury?

Charissa 40:41
It is a two because I mean,

Scott Benner 40:48
I mean, how did you do it? Do you lift something something fallen you like? Oh,

Charissa 40:53
that was actually one of the more frustrating things is it wasn't one event and I had to fight with the VA VA to get disability for it. Because it wasn't one traumatic event that caused the disc bulge and the pull up my health profile here. Give you the technical stuff. It was just repeated. We're in player because I was a heavy Oh, so actually, you don't let me give you some context for this. Before I had kids, I was five foot 220 pounds, working heavy equipment mechanics. So after I had Phoebe, I struggled to lose the weight. And I'm a fluffy girl now. Which is fine. It's not so bad. As long as I can stop gaining the stinking weight. But really? Okay, um I lost my train. Where did I go?

Scott Benner 41:58
Well, I can help you. You're lucky. I've been listening. Even if you have not been. You were trying to give context. You said I was five to 120 before I had the baby after the baby weight was a little difficult to get rid of fluffy now. Not about there's something for you. I think you were looking for body context for me. But you were doing a tough job. Heavy Machine something.

Charissa 42:22
That's what it was. Yeah. So I worked on. So I did diesel mechanics. I worked on hydraulic test stands on combine generator air conditioning units, like big, big equipment. So it was a big job for a little person. And so the wear and tear. If had my back injury had been treated when it was minor. I probably would have been fine. Okay. However it was the doctors just told me it'll fix itself go back to work. And it escalated and

Scott Benner 42:55
got worse and worse and worse mean what did you lose function of?

Charissa 43:00
So I was in pain all the time. I was angry. I you know, I had back pain. hip pain, knee pain, ankle pain, like just constant.

Scott Benner 43:11
Yeah. Do your wrists hurt?

Charissa 43:15
They do. Yeah, shoulders. Yeah, the right one more than the left. Okay, so sciatica right side other spondylosis with raid a que lo pathI lumbar region lumbar degenerative disc disease lumbar facet at I just wrecked my back.

Scott Benner 43:31
Yeah. Just kind of doing stuff. Yeah. You just you kind of weren't ready for I guess and or your body wasn't ever going to be okay with. It sounds like yeah, then it got worse and worse. Did it debilitate you? Is that how you finally got out of it?

Charissa 43:45
Yeah, so I was 30. I was 35. When I got back surgery. I was a 35 year old walking with a cane.

Scott Benner 43:53
That's fine. How old were you when you had Phoebe?

Charissa 43:57
33.

Scott Benner 44:01
Okay. And then you had back surgery and then you had a Calvin.

Charissa 44:05
I had Calvin and then I had back surgery. The reason that we decided to have Calvin when we did is because I was already in pain. Like I already had chronic back pain and chronic joint pain. And I thought if we waited, I wasn't gonna be able to have another kid. And I really like I had my brother and sister growing up. And we're super close. And so I really wanted Phoebe to

Scott Benner 44:28
have that. Yeah, I say do how do you manage the pain now?

Charissa 44:33
spinal cord stimulator. It's awesome.

Scott Benner 44:36
Okay, is it internal or external? Its internal.

Charissa 44:39
So I have two leads that are implanted along the spinal cord and there's a battery pack that's underneath my skin. That feels really funny. And then I have a remote, a cool little remote that lets me adjust the the vibration.

Scott Benner 44:54
It's constant. And what does it do confuse the nerves or

Charissa 44:59
Oh But maybe actually, it just like it. You know how a 10s unit works where it just kind of works things out for you. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:09
it's that but internal. So the so is there no pain now with the stimulator?

Charissa 45:16
Very little to none. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:18
No killing. Do you ever have to get up a little bit like does it ever need more? It does? Yeah.

Charissa 45:23
When I'm working, like if I'm doing anything physical, I definitely do. We're gonna build a fence today for my garden. And so I'll probably have to jack it up after that. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 45:33
They need an app for the phone. You don't want to mess with a remote. I'd like to see it right on your phone. That would be nice. And so did that alleviate joint pain, knee pain, hip pain, like what did it fix?

Charissa 45:45
So it helps. So the knees and the ankles may have additional issue wearing tear issues, but I haven't followed up on it. But as far as like the nerve pain, it's cut out the nerve pain. So now you know, I've got like, kind of the grating, you know, just worn out pains. But I still have you know, Shoulder Elbow, wrist hands, my hands are getting kind of obnoxious because they like to swell up when storms are running through.

Scott Benner 46:19
But you don't have RA or anything like that.

Charissa 46:22
My blood work is absolutely stinking perfect. And it's maddening.

Scott Benner 46:28
It sucks. It really does. Really? Does the nerve pain feel like? Let me see some other questions. Have you ever felt like your bones hurt? Yes. If you've had that feeling of like, My bones are bruised or aching.

Charissa 46:43
They ache but there's no physical damage that is, you know, visible from the outside. And if I fuss with my joints, like there's no point where I can touch them that will cause it to hurt. It just hurts.

Scott Benner 46:56
It just hurts. Does this have any? Excuse me just have any relation to your period your cycle at all? No. Okay. pretty regular. I'm sorry. I know. It's like 40 minutes. And I'm like you've pretty regular periods.

Charissa 47:11
I think so I don't really track it anymore. I never really tracked it actually.

Scott Benner 47:16
Not super heavy, though. Or, like less than awkward amount of time, nothing like that.

Charissa 47:22
I mean, they're more frequent than I'd like. Like I get maybe three, three and a half weeks.

Scott Benner 47:27
But okay. Okay. I'm just asking all the questions. Fine. This is why in the old west, you would just eventually, like leave your woman behind. Like showing her out. We'll get another one. Oh my god, it's terrible. A couple of

Charissa 47:44
weeks ago, I told my husband like, I want to blame you if you left me like you did not sign up for this. And he's like, Well, you didn't sign up for my either.

Scott Benner 47:52
What do you say? Like, like abandoned at the Walmart kind of thing. Like just like

Charissa 48:00
at home, I was feeling just terrible. We had a snowstorm come through and those like storms change of season and then when it gets really hot and humid in the summer, those for some reason, like those scenarios just wreck me. And I like I'm just like a puddle. Like just a puddle full of pain.

Scott Benner 48:23
Would you be better? Would you better than like Phoenix Do you think?

Charissa 48:29
Um, maybe. I mean, we're better in misery than we were in Florida. Florida was miserable, humid. Yeah. But you know, the fall times here are pretty dry. And that's one of my worst. One of the catalysts for starting to follow up on it again is a couple of years ago and get ready get the bloodwork done, which all came back normal except for inflammation. Like there was one fall day I woke up and my hands felt like they were being crushed. And that scared me. But check for rheumatoid check for lupus checked for

Scott Benner 49:11
fibromyalgia like fibromyalgia, Lymes disease heavy metals, they do all that

Charissa 49:19
they didn't check for heavy metals. But you know, everything else

Scott Benner 49:24
came back. Hmm, came it all came back clear. Yep. Krista, do you ever self medicate? i

Charissa 49:33
So oh, you know, there is one little thing. There is one little thing. So when I went to the neurologist, they actually gave me a brain scan for Ms. And that came back clear. But they did a vitamin panel, my D, my D vitamin D was low, or actually that was actually a decision. Yes, so that was deficient. And then my B 12. was on the low end so I started a multivitamin that has between Oh, and D. And then I recently started one that added iodine into the mix because I don't eat iodized salt. And I know that can do some, I do listen to your podcasts.

Scott Benner 50:14
Does that happen that that happened to impact anything? Not so far. I keep wondering how many people are we're gonna have to test their vitamin D, and it comes back a little before we start acting like, well, that must be the normal level of people's vitamin D at this point. I mean, like, not that it's not impactful, and that you don't need it. But I mean, it's happening to so many people that it's just, you know, it's crazy. Yeah, so, so question is impacted my question. Do you ever find yourself so badly off that you have to self medicate? Like, how do you manage pain before the stimulator? It's just a weird thing to ask. Because I'm basically asking, it's great not to have anything back. Yeah, like you smoking weed or drinking or like, doing something harder? No, I.

Charissa 51:06
So weed is not my thing. You know, no, no judgment on the people who do it. It's just not my thing. But before I had kids, I like I realized, like, when I was pregnant, and after I had kids, because I wasn't drinking. I realized how much I self medicated with alcohol for a really long time. Yeah, well, I mean, probably for everything. But yeah, that was part of

Scott Benner 51:32
it. What's the other stuff?

Charissa 51:33
What's the other stuff? Oh, just life stuff. You know, life gets hard. I drink a little.

Scott Benner 51:38
You know, it's not my thing. And so I'm fascinated by it. Like, no, yeah, I don't know how to, like, I don't know how to like, I can't commiserate with that. For some reason. Like, when life gets hard, like, I don't know what happens to me. I don't think to do that. But it's, like, not a judgement. I just, I mean, I'm sure if I thought to do it, I would do it.

Charissa 52:01
I mean, it's not a bad thing. Since you know, I've, since I've had kids, and especially now with Calvin's diabetes, I drink even less, because I can't bear the thought of not being in control of a situation if something were to arise. So I've had to come up with other coping mechanisms. So gardening is a big one. You know, bike riding is something I actually started before I had kids so that I've gotten back into

Scott Benner 52:24
you're able to do that. You're able to do that now.

Charissa 52:28
Yes. So that was one of the really cool things about the spinal cord stimulator is that I got to get my bike for free. I'm actually doing a happy dance.

Scott Benner 52:36
How did you find out about the stimulator visit VA or a private doctor?

Charissa 52:41
Private Doctor, I have not done much with the VA Health Care System yet, because I get tired of fighting on the civilian side. I don't want to fight the VA for the rest of my life. Okay, I

Scott Benner 52:53
don't like yeah, okay.

Charissa 52:55
But so my. So first I went to when they found the injury, they sent me to neurosurgery. And they talked about spinal fusion, which is probably what I've should have gotten instead of the spinal cord stimulator. The spinal cord stimulator was an option, because I have two small children. And I cannot commit the time for recovery. For the spinal fusion. Like if I have the spinal fusion, I would be at higher risk for subsequent surgeries. Because, you know, I have two small kids to take care of like, I cannot

Scott Benner 53:30
lift such a scary thing. To me. The idea of having back surgery is if I find it frightening,

Charissa 53:36
I was terrified. I dang near canceled the day before because I was so scared because I read a stinking article about what could go wrong with this thing.

Scott Benner 53:44
Yeah. So you had a bulging disc, and they were in that they think that's where your pain comes from?

Charissa 53:51
Yeah.

Scott Benner 53:54
It's terrible. Like I just it's the worst kind of pain, like because it comes and goes and it feels like it's soft muscle, but it acts like it's structural. Back pain is terrible. It really, really

Charissa 54:05
is. And, like I had gotten to the point where mine just didn't go away.

Scott Benner 54:09
Right? How would you characterize your stress and anxiety level? Why you laugh?

Charissa 54:21
Because if there's a chart, I would be like, over left field.

Scott Benner 54:25
There's a lot of good,

Charissa 54:28
oh, it's just life stuff. But I you know, I deal with it all right. You know, it's just, you kind of take things one step at a time. So there's something that my basic training instructor said, that really sticks with me. And that's, you know, it doesn't get better, you get better. And so that's kind of the mentality that I just roll forward with, you know, every every forward motion counts. And it's okay to backpedal like Take it, take two steps back and just push forward again.

Scott Benner 55:03
That's cool. That's really insightful. Actually. I want to talk to you a little bit about Calvin's diabetes and what you were faced with in the beginning and what you've learned so far and what's working and what's not working. So,

Charissa 55:18
yeah, usually gets really annoyed about how much I talk about Ellen's diabetes.

Scott Benner 55:22
Oh, guess what, this me your time. So, you're gonna you're gonna get this song about it as much as you want. diagnosed, he sends him home he a little kid, they give you a pen.

Charissa 55:35
They did. We had. So they sent us home with the JR, quick pins. And I had, but I so when we first got our prescriptions, TRICARE had us go through Express Scripts, pharmacies. And those stinkers had cancelled the medication, because they said they couldn't get in touch with the endos office. Our endos offense is wonderful. So even early on, I knew that was a load of, you know, right. Um, so we like I was in a stinking panic because Calvin ran out of insulin. And I was like, ready to go down to Walmart with a credit card and just pay for it and the Walmart next to us you know, they we got an emergency authorization through so we could pick it up from Walmart. But Walmart gave us the pens I only had the whole units. So for a month there until we got the junior quick seconds back. I had to modify a 16 month old diet for whole unit dosages. I was so bad.

Scott Benner 56:42
Yeah, no kidding. His half unit syringes and pens are a lifesaver when you have a little really are was was Calvin still. bottles at 16 months.

Charissa 56:53
He had. You know what? He was off bottles at that point. He was still eating a lot of rice cereal and a lot of pure rates starting solid.

Scott Benner 57:02
Okay. So what's the I mean, he's on a slow acting right away.

Charissa 57:08
Yes. Okay. Yep. Yep, he was on land. And

Scott Benner 57:11
a lot of for Calvin. He's not messing around. He's jumping. Right.

Charissa 57:14
I've actually looked into that a little bit, because I remember you saying that Arden's potential honeymoon period was like three days. And, you know, I read, you know, I'm on the I'm on Facebook quite a bit. So I read about other people's honeymoons and Calvin's, whether it's his pancreas taken in, I wasn't sure if a lot of played a factor. But another thought has entered my mind of gastrointestinal issues, which is why I'm glad he gets tested for celiac annually. Because it could be an absorption of glucose that makes this happen or a lack of absorption. But he pretty regularly, like we have to adjust his Lantis like his, his, a lot of times his Bolus stays fine. So I'm inclined to think his pancreas is doing something. But his baseline needs to be adjusted pretty frequently,

Scott Benner 58:06
how drastically from what Allah.

Charissa 58:10
So typically a unit and one of the challenges a lot of a lot of times we get stuck between half units, so we kind of just waffle until he's solid on one or the other, you know whether we want to fight the highs of the lows. But, so, in this last fall, we actually had to back off his Lantis two units. Because I had moved him up because his body was running high. He had needed it. And then, you know, a couple of weeks or a month later, all of a sudden he's just crashing. And it took me a minute to realize what was happening because we've never backed off Atlantis before our kind of understanding was that once you're on, you know this dosage, you just kind of go up from there to see growth, we didn't realize we would have to backpedal. So he would get into a blood sugar of like 131 20 like a really nice spot for him, you know, a little buffer on each side. And he would just start crashing. So his Lantus, you know, he get into that good range, and if Lantis would just yank him. Gotcha. And so we backed off a unit and it was still doing it, but a little bit less, you know, it was on a diagonal instead of a crash. Right, right. Back off again. That's, that's kind of how we figured that out. Yeah. And

Scott Benner 59:28
how much does he weigh now versus how much do you weigh when he was diagnosed?

Charissa 59:32
He is about 30 pounds now. Yeah. When he was diagnosed, he was still a little guy. I honestly can't remember his weight. I don't want to say about half that.

Scott Benner 59:42
Okay. Wow. Okay, so he's gained a significant amount of weight since he's been diagnosed. Good. So are things easier now that he's gained weight?

Charissa 59:54
They were until he got the stomach virus. Yeah. Right.

Scott Benner 59:57
And then that's changed everything. assuming

Charissa 1:00:00
I'm working with a totally different body, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:03
how would how was it going? Like, like what? You said your husband uses. Libre does your son use CGM?

Charissa 1:00:12
Yes, the dex calm. So when we first got the dex calm, it was really frustrating. Because it seems like his he just, he had a lot of false readings like there was one day that was particularly scary. And my mom, like, so from the beginning, I've really just kind of honed in on different trends and things. There was one day we were playing outside. And at the time of day, typically he would his blood sugar would start to come down. But his Dex calm, showed that he was going up. And I was like, that's weird. I'm just gonna double check. And he was actually low. Like legitimately low, like, you know, 50s or 60s. And that scares the hell out of me. But you know, since he's turned two and gotten older and gotten a little more meat on him, it's actually been a lot more accurate. And it's saved our lives a couple of times, and especially with the stomach virus, like thankfully, we have a really, really good sensor this last week, so I could actually figure things out.

Scott Benner 1:01:12
Yeah. Well, I mean, I assume that after the virus is completely cleared, you'll see some return to normalcy, that would be my expectation.

Charissa 1:01:20
That's mine, too. But you know, for for right now, we're just rolling with what it is and trying to keep him in range as best we can with with the tools that

Scott Benner 1:01:28
we have. What was his day once he when he was diagnosed?

Charissa 1:01:32
I have no idea. It wasn't pretty. I can tell you that. It wasn't significantly high, either.

Scott Benner 1:01:38
Okay, how about his blood sugar when you got into the hospital? Do you remember?

Charissa 1:01:42
Uh, not really. But I know, again, it wasn't like, it wasn't like outrageously high, but it was definitely high diabetes, because, you know, the nurses checked his blood sugar. And I like, Cust like, just oh my god. And that's when I told the nurses, you know, his dad has type one. You know that. That's what I knew.

Scott Benner 1:02:02
What, um, where's my question? What is a once he's been so far in this first year?

Charissa 1:02:11
So we haven't been great, but we're getting better. In the hospital last week is a Wednesday it was 6.8.

Scott Benner 1:02:18
That's good. That's really good. So you're, you're bringing it down. So you're figuring it out? So you're basically trying to keep him safe. Let him eat. Let him grow and slowly move in the direction you're looking for? Yes, it makes a lot of sense to me. Especially with a little kid like that. And you have another young child too. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot going on, is what I'm saying. Yeah. Are you okay?

Charissa 1:02:43
For the most part, I have my days, like, the other day, I was just like, Oh, my God, hell with this league? Like this is the worst, but

Scott Benner 1:02:53
oh, my gosh, are you working at this point, or no.

Charissa 1:02:56
I'm actually in grad school, library and information science, but it's an online program. So I can work my schedule, aside from deadlines around everything that goes on

Scott Benner 1:03:06
around here. Gotcha. And you're done with the guard.

Charissa 1:03:10
I am in inactive status, for the medical out processing. So I get to keep my health benefits as long as I'm still in there. But you know, I'm not expected to go to Vermont and do drills or anything like that right now.

Scott Benner 1:03:26
Right. And your husband is I'm sorry, is he in the service too, or is he works in the private sector.

Charissa 1:03:32
He's out now he got out before Phoebe was born. And so he was a stay at home with CB for the first year while I was finishing up my active duty assignment.

Scott Benner 1:03:40
Okay, I see. Interesting. All right. Yeah. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about?

Charissa 1:03:48
I mean, I always like talking about gardening. I love my garden. But it can own it loosely relates to diabetes. And it's the only way I can get my kids to eat a steak and vegetable.

Scott Benner 1:03:58
So they'll eat something that they've grown.

Charissa 1:04:01
No, they'll eat something if I'm eating it. Like they'll try something if it's something I'm actively eating, but if I put it on their plate, they won't have anything to do with it.

Scott Benner 1:04:09
So interesting. But they'll eat what you eat. Yeah, that's thoughtful. Yeah, what do you alright, I'll bite What are you growing Chris? So what's what's helping you with your stress out there in the yard?

Charissa 1:04:21
So last year, so I love peppers. Peppers are just everything and the hot peppers actually do help with my inflammation a little bit. I think it has to do with the release of endorphins. So peppers, tomatoes, eggplants. I did okra for the first time. Last year and fresh okra is phenomenal. I can't like I've tried to do greens and I'm gonna try brussel sprouts again. They're a labor of love. They, they're interesting.

Scott Benner 1:04:48
They're difficult to grow.

Charissa 1:04:51
They kind of they just have a really like the seed packet says, you know one thing and then experience tells you something totally different. So I plant them in the spring. Just let them chill out for the summer and then hopefully I'll get a harvest in the fall. That was my experience last year and I am kind of planning for that the same so I started them earlier and I'm gonna put them out earlier. I'm terrible at root veggies. Carrots are supposed to be easy to grow HECM can't do it

Scott Benner 1:05:17
yet. Do a carrot. Not yet, Missouri. They're like, there's like wind come with me down the lane there. Do you get tornadoes? Or am I thinking of the wrong part of the country?

Charissa 1:05:26
Oh, no, you're the right part of the country. Gotcha. That's,

Scott Benner 1:05:30
that's part of the fun too.

Charissa 1:05:32
Um, you know, and it's funny because where we live, it's supposed to be like tornadoes are historically a little bit more active here. But so far knock on wood. Like Bruneau level knock on wood on everything. If you haven't watched in Canada, that won't make much sense. But you know, it's a we've been fortunate so far last year, we really didn't have much of a storm system even though like we're Kentucky got hammered. This this fall to like spring is the typical tornado season, but we actually get a lot of storm activity around the holidays like Christmas that years.

Scott Benner 1:06:14
I'm gonna say here just because it fits. Foods that that they say fight inflammation or tomatoes, olive oil, leafy greens like spinach, kale, collards, fatty fish like salmon, mackerel, tuna, sardines, nuts like almonds, walnuts, and others. fruits like strawberries, blueberries, oranges and cherries, and foods that they say this is from Harvard. are inflammatory, lard, processed meats, refined carbohydrates, sodas, fried foods. So I don't know have you had any luck impacting your, your information that way?

Charissa 1:06:54
Um, so the peppers, the hot peppers, I found out help. Tomatoes my stomach, not good does not always agree with. Okay, I really have to be mindful of tomatoes. I don't drink soda. I just don't. In my 20s I drank a lot of Dr. Pepper. And I just I felt really sluggish. And I realized that one day once I stopped like once I went through a short stint where I wasn't drinking because I couldn't afford it. I realized I felt better. So I stopped drinking soda. High fructose corn syrup does not exist in this house.

Scott Benner 1:07:27
Good. That's excellent. I was not was but have been always interested. As you travel south on the East Coast. There's a line when you get underneath of it. You can't even find a diet soda anywhere. Not that you like I'm not saying diet soda is better than soda. I'm saying. I'm saying listen, if you want my opinion, don't drink soda. But the it's just interesting how if you're in a store, and you can't find a diet version of a drink? To me that's cultural. Right? Yeah, like these, like, what the store is saying is, look, if I put diet something in here, nobody gonna buy it. So I can't I can't take up any space in my cooler for this, even that I find kind of fascinating around soda sodas. I hear people talk about soda. Like it's like it's a staple in their life a lot. That fascinates me really, that there's not just something that somebody might have once in a while. But it's something that's drank, like consistently throughout every day. I don't know why our brains work that way. We do it with carb counting to see if I can make sense for a second. You put a waffle on a plate, and you're like, how many carbs is this and it has three tablespoons of syrup on it, which is probably like for anybody who's having a waffle. And it's hard to recognize that the syrup probably has more carbs in it than the waffle does. But yeah, but it's smaller, or it doesn't seem as substantial. So I don't think your brain works that way. You know, like, it's just as interesting that people don't tend to count the carbs for condiments, which could very easily like add up quickly if you're having honey mustard or ketchup are things like that. And it's, it's not thought of the same way. And for some reason I think liquids are that too. Yeah, you know, like, oh, how do you eat? I eat great. But, you know, nobody's for some reasons thinking about what's in the soda or what's in the liquid that you're drinking.

Charissa 1:09:29
Yeah, or in that point, like, you know, if you have a salad, there are people out there that will literally soak their salad with salad dressing. And depending on the salad dressing, it's a terrible idea.

Scott Benner 1:09:42
My wife got a salad in a restaurant once and they started bolusing or her and Kelly we're gonna Hernan we're gonna split it as a we should really look this up. I looked it up the salad had like 90 carbs in it. I was like how can a salad of 90 carbs? What does that even mean? But like, like, you're not actually having a salad, You've tricked yourself into believing you're eating something healthy at that point. Anyway, I'm gonna listen, I'm not saying I don't roll into a restaurant once in a while and just completely throw caution to the wind and just like, I'm gonna have this and this and this. But if in your mind, you know, I don't know, it's a cheeseburger and your bolusing for just the bun, and you're not bolusing for the topping, or the fat that's going to slow down digestion and create a, you know, and you don't realize that your body's going to, you know, take protein, something that has no carbs in it, and break it down and store it as glucose like, these are things that, you know, impact your blood sugars that make other people go like, Oh, I it's just diabetes. It's crazy. I don't know what happened. I only ate a cheeseburger. Anyway,

Charissa 1:10:49
yeah. I actually have a story about the learning to when when we knew propane was needed. And it's, it's one of those things that so it's what I call the peanut butter sandwich. Say the

Scott Benner 1:11:06
way say that again, the peanut butter what?

Charissa 1:11:08
So it the the catalyst was a peanut butter sandwich. So typically, so I feed the kids breakfast and lunch with typically very little variation. As long as I know that they'll eat the first two meals of the day consistently, I can experiment with dinner, you know, they'll complain and refuse to eat, and it's okay. Because, you know, they've, they they get enough. Yeah. Yeah. So, typically, I would feed them chicken nuggets. But one day Calvin was coming down, and I was like, you know, it'll be quicker if I do a peanut butter sandwich. So I made some peanut butter sandwiches. And I was talking on the phone with a friend from Vermont, and his little alarm goes off. And I'm like, well, that's weird. You know, never go slow at this time. So I gave him a low snack. No big deal. I keep chatting on the phone. And he's going lower. Just like what I thought Dexcom was off. Its rocker. So I think your poked him and Dexcom was spot on. And so I was like, with my friend, I was like, I gotta go. I gotta, you know. So the next day, well, I thought about it. And I had seen, you know, other moms talking about, you know, foods, like chicken nuggets have a lot of fat. But I looked, flew and I was like, oh, yeah, that's the case. So the next day, I did chicken nuggets. And the expected response happened, no low. So the next day, I tried to peanut butter sandwich again, this time I was prepared. And he hit that low. And so that's when I realized I needed to dose for the protein, like I needed to create the discrepancy between the chicken nuggets and the peanut butter sandwich, that would give me the same outcome. And that's where I started dosing for protein. Well, good

Scott Benner 1:12:56
for you. Oh, wait to pay attention. Very nice. Are you generally I have to go I feel to get my teeth cleaned, actually. But it's a weird thing to say. But I gotta get my teeth clean. Are you generally happy with the direction that Calvin's diabetes is headed in and your understanding of it?

Charissa 1:13:13
Yeah, he's improving. And that's really positive. We have a pump training scheduled for March 7. That would be pretty huge.

Scott Benner 1:13:21
That's great. What kind of hump you getting?

Charissa 1:13:23
We did the T slim. And that actually. So there's an interesting point about that too, because with us having to potentially change insurances in the near future. My husband's insurance is terrible. It has a $6,000 deductible per person per year. I know we're going to meet that and we can't afford it. Yeah, so the T slim the entrance now covered 90% of the T slim. And I asked the rep out of pocket if we had to pay for supplies. What would that be monthly? $150 a month. I was like, Okay, that would suck. But I think I can manage that. So that's why we went with the diesel.

Scott Benner 1:13:55
I would take whatever. I mean, if I was in a financial situation, I would take whichever one was affordable. That just makes sense. So

Charissa 1:14:03
yeah, you have to kind of think ahead about that transition to

Scott Benner 1:14:06
well, he used the control IQ Do you think

Charissa 1:14:09
eventually, um, I, I'm glad we're starting off at the base like you because that'll give me a feel for it. And then, you know, once I can kind of understand how that works, then I'm more I think more able to understand how the algorithm is going to act.

Scott Benner 1:14:25
Okay. Did they did they tell you you were starting with baseline here? Did you ask to start with it?

Charissa 1:14:30
They told us we were starting Basal IQ. Yeah, that's good. All

Scott Benner 1:14:33
right. Got it. Okay. Well, Chris, I had a really nice time talking to you. I think I will look back on this episode and say to myself, I have no idea what we talked about. And yet I enjoyed myself. And I think those are the best ones. So thank you. I really appreciate you putting in the time and and doing this with me. Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. Yeah, it was wonderful.

I'd like to thank Karissa for coming on the show and sharing this story with us. I also want to thank Ian pen from Medtronic, diabetes, and Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six. You can learn more about the N pen and get started today at in pen today.com. You can also get started with the Dexcom g six@dexcom.com. Forward slash juice box, you may be eligible for a free 10 day trial, head over and find out. While I'm thanking people, let me thank you for listening, supporting, subscribing, and sharing the Juicebox Podcast.

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#752 If It Pleases the Court

Anonymous Female guest has type 1 diabetes and good story.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
You're listening to Episode 752 of the Juicebox Podcast

Guest is with me today she is an adult living with type one diabetes. And we're going to cover a multitude of things, including her road from a one season attends to the sixes, and everything that got her from where she started to where she is. Now. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have the time, and by the time I mean fewer than 10 minutes, please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and fill out the survey. All you have to be as a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one. Your simple answers to simple questions will help people living with type one diabetes, they'll support the podcast and they may even help you t one D exchange.org Ford slash juice box

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod five, learn more and get started today at Omni pod.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by Arden's blood glucose meter. The Contour Next One, and you can learn about that little gem at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox Are you nervous? You okay?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:55
I was nervous and I bless nervous now.

Scott Benner 1:58
When were you nervous?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:00
Oh, I was driving in to I'm it's I'm calling you from school. And so I had my commute to like, what am I gonna say? What am I not gonna say? And so, you know, I did 45 minutes of anxiety. And now we're here.

Scott Benner 2:16
You shouldn't have told me that because though. But anyway, go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll kick on.

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:20
We'll go from there. Cool. So I'm, I have been diabetic. I was doing the math this morning for 20 years. And I am currently in law school.

Scott Benner 2:37
That's fancy. I'll tell you something. This weekend, we took our son on a trip to visit a college. And I think I think this is going to be the one she wants to go to. So we're sitting with it's funny, the counselor but I just looked at her and thought salesperson, this is the salesperson for the right. And I was like I've never seen a counselor this pretty before in my entire life. I'm being marketed to you know, not that she didn't know what she was talking about. She just looked like a runway model, which struck me as strange. And not that runway models don't need jobs.

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:14
I got to do something after you know the walking down the

Scott Benner 3:18
parks over right. Yeah, so anyway, lovely person, not the point. And she asks Arden, if you don't get in here, what else do you think you might do? And Arden had already been accepted to the school. So are in school. I've already been accepted here. Excuse me, I'm dying. Give me a second attention lady looked down at your paper. And what kind of sales job is this? You don't even know what you're trying to sell them. But anyway, she says to Arden, like, you know, what else might you do? And Arden goes, I think if I didn't do this, and by the way, it's fashion design. Arden because I probably be pre law.

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:57
I love it. I love it. The Kids Are All Right.

Scott Benner 4:01
Just like I was like, wow, I didn't have enough confidence to think I could do one thing when I was 17. And she's like, I don't know, I might do something way over here or way over there doesn't matter.

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:11
That's how I ended up in law school at 33 is I didn't have the competence to do it when I was artists. Ah, no kidding.

Scott Benner 4:18
What did you What did you go into college for?

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:21
I did college for international relations. And then mostly because I wanted to travel. And I thought I could help solve problems elsewhere. Then I became a teacher. And then I was a community organizer for about 10 years before law school.

Scott Benner 4:39
Oh, so you decided not to be president? Because I thought that was a presidency. No.

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:44
I like they haven't been letting ladies be presidents lately. lately.

Scott Benner 4:48
Not yet. My husband

Anonymous Female Speaker 4:51
wouldn't either. This has been farmed out.

Scott Benner 4:55
He's not looking to be on camera. I'll tell you what, though. They've done a really good job of discipline. hearing what's his name? Isn't that crazy? Oh, my goodness. He's been the first vice president, man. Like, I don't even know what that is for.

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:09
Oh, I was like, What guy? We

Scott Benner 5:12
don't know.

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:14
His name is Doug.

Scott Benner 5:15
His name is Doug. So you're telling me that Kamala Harris, his husband's name is Doug. Yes. That's what I'm telling you and what hold on and what is it Kamala? It's Kamala, right. Yeah. Kamala Kamala, I'm doing that wrong, too. We'll see. No, don't be sorry. My point is, is that if this I'm Doug emhoff. How crazy is that? You? Did you know that? You just need a dog? No, I

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:43
knew it was stuck. Mm hmm. I am a nerd.

Scott Benner 5:45
I'm trying not to show me. You were trying to post nice. See, I was trying to make the point that it wouldn't matter. Nobody would know who your husband was. Anyway, if you were doing that, but turns out you would know so

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:57
he's more likable than I am. They would all love him. Your heart of the Chest. Chest into Pete Buda, Judge.

Scott Benner 6:06
Husband sort of jasmine, we, I'm confused. Your husband's more likable than you are. Yes. How was that possible? You seem delightful.

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:16
He's a botanist. And so while I talk about politics and why the world is broken, he talks about trees likable.

Scott Benner 6:25
So he's just giving people less to think about so it's easier to be around him.

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:30
He makes a good cocktail. It's good.

Scott Benner 6:33
It's a good egg. Has he ever looked at a tree longingly in a way that made you uncomfortable? Um, I can't say no. Excellent. Okay. All right. How old were you when you're diagnosed with type one?

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:48
I was in ninth grade? I don't know. Maybe 13. Okay. So, the story there? Yeah. 20 years. So the story is, I was in junior high, they do it differently in Arizona. And I had to go to the bathroom constantly. I was so thirsty. I was like running between classes. And I went to my parents. I said, there is something wrong with me. I don't know what it is. Or there's something wrong with me. And my parents were like, you're growing, you're changing, like things are fine. It you know, bodies are weird. And I was like, no, no, there's something amiss. And they were like, nah. Um, and this went on for probably three months or so before we took a road trip, the classic road trip story, from Phoenix to Denver to see some family. And it was like every gas station on the road, like maybe not even gas stations, just like wherever we could find that we had to stop for me and my parents were like, there's something wrong with you. And I was like, I've been telling you that is that is true. Yes.

Scott Benner 7:56
Your parents not therapists or kindergarten teachers, obviously. Right? Right.

Anonymous Female Speaker 8:03
And so we went home, we did the whole vacation, and then went home. And at home, my uncle is diabetic. And so we tested. And I was like 501. And my parents were like, That's problematic. And so even then, like, we didn't rush to the ER unnecessarily, it was like, I'll call the doctor and see what they say. And the doctor tried to put us off for like, a week and a half. I was and then I asked my mom, did you tell her that the blood sugar was 501. And she was like, well now. And I was like, call her back and tell her that information. And then shoot, they were like, You have to come in immediately. And so somebody that I had been living with then so like Surly and overly confident. 13 year old became an emergency. Despite the fact that I was like, No, I've whatever this is, it's been here for three months.

Scott Benner 8:57
Yeah. How long have you been the adult in the relationship between you and your parents?

Anonymous Female Speaker 9:03
Maybe the whole time? No, I my parents are great, but like their child rearing philosophy was sort of like if we just treat you like an adult then like, you'll be an adult and it will be great. And for the most part, like I cooperated with that philosophy. I had straight A's I my like, weird rebellion was going to church like my parents were more like this is this is lovely. And so they were I think they were totally unprepared for something like diabetes to happen.

Scott Benner 9:35
Margie, do you think she'll use heroin? No, I think she's gonna go to church. That's great. So you so your parents, your parents were not very religious. So the way you rebelled against them was going to church?

Anonymous Female Speaker 9:46
Yes, my parents met each other on a blind date went home together that night. Then three nights later, moved all my mom's stuff into my dad's apartment and have been together Ever since. And so they they're just a little wild.

Scott Benner 10:04
Wow. They hooked up like lesbians. That's fast. Yeah. You have you ever been naked in front of your husband with the lights

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:12
on? SCOTT I can I can say yes to that question. Oh,

Scott Benner 10:23
there you go. I just love that as a child, you were like, I need to push back against these people. I'm gonna find religion. Did you find religion? Are you just going to church for a little while? I would

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:34
say I found religion. And then I do better. Yeah, well, I gave back religion. I don't know that I gave back God. But I gave back religion. I was like this. This was meant to control women. And I'm not that into

Scott Benner 10:47
it. Oh, you didn't like what you found. But you like the idea.

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:51
I like the idea of community. I like the idea of faith. I like the idea that there are things we can't explain. And I didn't like the patriarchal structure and this idea that, you know, yeah, there was there's a lot of things about church that didn't sit right with me.

Scott Benner 11:11
By the way. I don't know if this is narcissism, but I think I could explain almost anything, if you ask me. I think I'm not sure if I'd be right or not. But I come up with an explanation.

Anonymous Female Speaker 11:21
You and every law student? Oh, really?

Scott Benner 11:23
Is that how they work? Do you ever heard me talk about on the podcast that my eighth grade guidance counselor tried to get me to be an attorney?

Anonymous Female Speaker 11:31
I haven't heard you talk about it. I've considered it. And I think you would hate it. Because for sure, arguing arguing is great. But like the way that the law works is that whatever was decided before must be the basis for what happens next. And you'd be like, Well, what the why that that? I have a more elegant solution. Like why?

Scott Benner 11:54
No, I even knew back then when he said it. I was like, I think you're misunderstanding who I am fundamentally. But I mean, I think I could probably functionally do it, if that's what you're asking me, but I don't think I would want to. And if you've anybody who's ever heard if you've ever been in a business meeting with me, because this podcast is actually a business, and, you know, like I have to meet with people and have like real like adult conversations about how things get said and ads, for example, or, you know, you know, talking about money about paying for ads, stuff like that. And so I get into these very oddly, corporate settings, where people who are dressed very nicely, are sit sat up very properly in front of me, and I just, I don't talk any differently in those meetings that I do on this blog.

Anonymous Female Speaker 12:45
I think that's low key, the rebellion, I'm here for honestly,

Scott Benner 12:49
I'll come downstairs after a call. And my wife will say, actually, I'll just tell you an actual story. So I'm very friendly with the person who, who initially bought ads on the show for on the pod, but that person does not work from the pod anymore. They're actually out of the diabetes space completely. And I contacted them. And I was like, Hey, listen, I'm about to have a meeting with Medtronic about in pen. And I think they're going to come on as advertisers for NPN. And, you know, I don't I forgot what the question was the question I had for really, it's not important. What's important is at the end of the conversation, she said, Hey, in your first call, try to keep it to under three font. And I was like, I was like, that's your, that's your she goes, yeah, she's like, you know, you're gonna curse. And I was like, right. She's like, just don't do it too much right away until they know you. And I was like, Okay, so my, so the call finishes, my wife has no idea about this conversation I had with my friend, I get off the call, and I come downstairs and my wife goes, How many times did you curse on the call? And I was like, okay, half a dozen, but I kept the ducks to under three. And my wife said, I don't understand how you do business with people. I was like, I think it's the same as the podcast. I was like, it's, you know, we just talk like real people. And if it doesn't work out for me, I kind of don't care. You know, so I tell people all the time, I'm like, Look, you know, if we're going to do business together, you should no, this is me, like, this is how this is gonna go, if that makes you uncomfortable. You want to jump, you know, so

Anonymous Female Speaker 14:23
well. And so in my training as a community organizer, you will learn that a way to get people to share things with you is to be vulnerable with them. And so I find that like, sort of the engineered, swearing, etc. Just being who I am in a space often creates like better connection and relationship with people and so even if it isn't like the right norm for the space, I think that the vulnerability like transcends what you're supposed to do. And also, if I if I wrote a memoir that had to be titled in less than six words, it would Be my mom's favorite word is. So you're gonna get the fuck either way,

Scott Benner 15:06
when I'm gonna tell you a story, and I'm gonna keep the word out of it, but when we were young, like really young, 1920 years old, we were in a diner and I was philosophizing with my friends. And I said that I think there's a way to say anything to people, and have them accept it. Like, you know, by that I mean, not brushed up against it. And I was trying to make a bigger point about language and eye contact and communication and stuff like that. And so one of my stupid friends said, like, you couldn't say anything to anybody. And she's, and this guy says, I'm totally have to bleep this out. And also, I'm going to apologize to you ahead of time, but for context, he said, You can't use the word of the waitress without offending her. And I was like, I betcha I could. And I don't know. I don't know what made me say that. But I did say to him, I'm gonna need three tries at this because we bet money, you know, and I was pretty sure it wasn't gonna go right the first time, but it still didn't dissuade me. And I didn't say it directly to her. It's not like I identified her that way or addressed her I tried to work it into it did not go well, the first time. But we had to leave a really big tip. So probably all the money I eventually want on the bed I lost on. Like, as I was like, we're really sorry. But I did figure it out, I did figure out a way to talk to people in a way that, like nowadays, they people talk about, it's like you meet people where they are. Yeah, and there's part of that, that I believe is true. But there's a big piece of it that I believe is true, that you just said is about, like, if I'm not hiding anything, then I'm not a threat to you, in any way. Right? Like, I mean, you guys don't know me. Like, you know, empirically, but you know me pretty well. Like I'm not hiding any big things about me. And then, to me, that's the pathway to talk to people about diabetes, and have it be relatable and something you can actually absorb. But we should probably talk about your diabetes a little bit. No, I,

Anonymous Female Speaker 17:07
I was just gonna say that, I think that had something like the podcast. And specifically, like your approach to the podcast existed when I was 13. I think in particular, my dad's entry point might have been totally different. But my so in my diagnosis, story, fasting, fast forwarding to the ER, the doctor is in a panic, I am not in a panic, I am fighting this doctors nonsense to be nonsense. And that will be the theme of how I approach doctors moving forward in my diabetic life. But they they rush us from one side of town to the other side of town, to get us with in with the very best Endo. And he he says a lot of things, but he quickly shuffles us into a room with a diabetic educator, who was not speaking to my family and to me in the in a way that felt like they were being taken seriously. She was sort of trying to go really slow and explain it in a really elementary way. And no, my parents are wild, they are also very smart. And so they started to feel sort of tucked down to about diabetes. And I would say like, within 10 minutes, my dad had left the room, found out how much we were being charged per hour for this experience, came back in and said, Lady, you got 15 minutes, wrap it up. And so then we left and like that was the extent of my diabetic education. Um, yeah, so it, I just think things would have gone differently. But there wasn't, there wasn't an internet, there wasn't podcasts. And there certainly wasn't anyone talking about diabetes in a way that was like, relatable or tangible or approachable.

Scott Benner 19:02
Yeah, I will say that, um, it's always been, I really, I want to make sure that I preface this by saying like, I'm not coming down on anybody. For certain because a lot of good has been done for people over the years, by a lot of people. But when I launched my blog, it was pretty early on in blogging, and it none of this high mindedness about how to help people was in my head. Like, I was really just trying to draw attention to diabetes. And I thought, while I'm not a doctor, like I can't really help, like, I wonder if I can help this way. But I noticed pretty quickly and maybe it was just a function of the fact that it was new or that technology didn't exist the way it does now. But but people who talk to other people about diabetes mainly did what I call like, like raw nerve blogging, you don't I mean, like, they're like, this is how I feel. And then other people would run up and be like, I feel like this too, and they'd be like, we feel like this together. And then that was the end of it. And I always just thought like you're not gonna To help each other, you just gotta, like, look each other in the face and go, Hey, this sucks, right? Like, how does that, like, why don't we try to make it not suck? Like, wouldn't that be interesting, you know?

Anonymous Female Speaker 20:11
Well, and the timing of my diabetes was such that I was diagnosed, sort of, in the nascent stage of the internet. And then as I was coming of age and trying to figure it out, there was that sort of diabetic community that you're describing. And I was 0% interested in that, because I was like, No, I want the solution to my problems. I really don't want to dwell on having diabetes, I don't even like having diabetes, I just want a solution. And so I disconnected from any sort of, like information source, I would say, and so I've heard you sometimes talk about diabetics is like, this diabetic, or this is the sort of person that should get it. And I would classify myself as someone who like should have gotten diabetes, and understood it. But I didn't, I spent like, probably the first 12 or 15 years of, of my diabetes career. No, it's not a career. But of my diagnosis, being relatively uncontrolled, I saw the endo regularly, I took my Lantis every day and my my endo was cranky, my Lantis because he could tell that I wasn't doing anything else. But as a teenager, it was like, I have these four data points in the day, and I don't know what to do with them. I don't know how insulin works, really. And so I have these four data points that just say I'm bad at this. And there's nothing else in my life that I'm really extraordinarily bad at. So I'm just not going to do it. And I did that for probably close to 15 years. And I'd have like moments of like, I really want to be good at this. I'm gonna like make this chart and like do a week of testing. But I couldn't get past the end, like this probably won't make a lot of sense to people who, you know, enter diabetes with a Dexcom. Now, but it really was a different era and diabetes, when you had, you know, these four test strips that you were supposed to somehow figure out what was happening. And I just like couldn't do it. And, like, I'm not the sort of person that that meets obstacles and like, walks away from them. But I did walk away from diabetes for a long time.

Scott Benner 22:43
At some point on your diabetes journey, a person gave you a blood glucose meter. Did they say to you, hey, this is a great blood glucose meter, it's one of the most accurate ones that they ever made. No, no, no one said that. Did they say, by the way, there are other blood glucose meters, you might want to look into it. I'm just gonna give you this one because I haven't here in the drawer. Nope, they don't say that either. They just gave it to you. And you thought, Well, this must be my blood glucose meter, because the doctor gave it to me. But there are many meters. And they're not all made equally. You deserve an accurate, well made and easy to use blood glucose meter, you deserve the Contour. Next One. The Contour. Next One is my favorite blood glucose meter. I know that's a strange thing to say. But we've used a number of them over the years. And this one is my favorite. Why? Bright light for use at night, the screen super easy to read. It's manageable. And by that I mean it's a good size. It's not too big. It's not too small. And I love the way it fits in my hand. It's sort of because of the shape which you'll see it contour next.com forward slash juicebox almost feels like you're holding up like a pen in your hand. I don't know how to put it exactly. You'll see when you get to the website. But the Contour Next One blood glucose meter is incredibly accurate. But you might be worried Scott all this accuracy. Is it more expensive? Am I going to be paying a bunch more money? I don't think so. Actually, if you go to contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. You can actually buy it right now at a number of online venues. Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, the list goes on and on target Rite Aid. And so when you get to my link, check it out. Because you might be able to save time and money buying contour next products from the convenience of your home. What am I saying? Well, I'm saying that it's possible that this meter and the test strips could be cheaper in cash than you're paying right now through your insurance company for an inferior product are crazy is that you owe it to yourself to be using the best equipment that you can and there's no reason not to check out the Contour Next One blood glucose is meter contour next.com forward slash juice box the Omni pod five automated insulin delivery system is available now and waiting for you at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Omni pod five is the only tubeless automated insulin delivery system that integrates with the Dexcom G six CGM, and it uses smart adjust technology to automatically adjust your insulin delivery every five minutes, helping to protect against highs and lows without multiple daily injections. Omni pod five is also available through your pharmacy, which means you can get started without the four year Durable Medical Equipment contract that comes with most insulin pumps, even when you're currently in warranty with another system. To get started today, go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Now for those of you who aren't in the market for an automated system, but still want an insulin pump, and love the idea of tubeless you're looking for the Omni pod dash, head over to my link Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. While you're there, you'll be able to learn everything you need to know about the Omni pod five, and the Omni pod Dash. And you can also find out if you're eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. My daughter Arden has been wearing the Omni pod since she was four years old, and she just turned 18 That is 14 years of wearing an omni pod every day. And it has been nothing but a friend in this journey with insulin. Because the Omni pod is tubeless you can wear it while you're showering, swimming, or participating in your favorite physical activity, it's a big deal to not have to disconnect from a tube pump to do those things. Head over now to Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box to find out if you're eligible for that free 30 day trial, the dash to learn more about the dash, or to learn more about the Omni pod five, get started today on the pod five full safety and risk information as well as a list of compatible phones and clinical trial claims data are available at my link. And at that same link omnipod.com forward slash juice box. You can also find terms and conditions for that on the pod dash 30 day trial.

mean how many times do you have to be faced with the idea that you have a problem in front of you, you don't functionally understand or have actual tools for I mean, how much of your life you're supposed to spend beating your head against that wall like it does help me understand your explanation helps me understand. When I hear adults say like, Well, I'm just trying to live without this getting in my way. You know,

Anonymous Female Speaker 27:51
and it was relatively successful. Like I was going to college I was I had a job. Like, it was fine. It wasn't great. I was tired all the time. And you know, but it was fine. And so I definitely understand the adult like I'm just trying to live my life. Yeah,

Scott Benner 28:10
I have to clear my throat I apologize one second.

I'm sorry. It's Brian here. me complaining, like I'm not in control of my home. Like it's drying here. put somebody on that I'm the person. By the way, if something happens, I'm gonna fix it also, lets everybody pause for a second and appreciate what a mind we have here with. She used nascent in the sentence didn't stop to think about it. I didn't notice that she was like, Oh, I'm not sure if I'm using nascent correctly. Just whipped it right out like it was a part of our everyday life. Good for you fancy.

Anonymous Female Speaker 28:54
Lucky I don't hang up the phone. Right. Why I

Scott Benner 28:56
thought it was great. I love it. There are times there are times I swallow big words because I'm like, not that nice and to pick word. It's just not a common anyway, not the point. So you are managing along. I'm guessing your parents put it on you right because they thought you're up for the challenge I bet.

Anonymous Female Speaker 29:16
Well, yeah, I think they thought I was up for the challenge. I certainly told them that I was up for the challenge. I told the doctor the night I was diagnosed that I would not be staying in the hospital that I had plans to go to the movies. And I ended up going to the movies that night so I wasn't the sort of kid that was going to be easily dissuaded. And I don't think they thought they had any other tools that I didn't have. And I think they'd never experienced a disease that like it wasn't just like take the pill and you'll be fine. Like I don't know that they fully understood the complexity of diabetes and the need to calibrate and the the ways that my body was going to change over time it I think they sort of thought, if you take your insulin when the doctor tells you then that, yeah, this is all fine.

Scott Benner 30:07
Yeah. And so isn't it great? How you're just like, I've got this, I'm not even staying here. I don't need any of this. And then for the next 15 years, you're like, Am I really a pain.

Anonymous Female Speaker 30:19
And I was wracked with guilt. I was like, I'm very bad at this. I would go to the doctor, like, once a year to get my I was still taking my long acting, I would go once a year, I would find new endocrinologist whenever I moved, so that I could get that prescription refilled, I wanted to be good at it. I wanted to be taking care of my self, and I like just couldn't do it. And I felt like it was like a personal moral failing that somehow I couldn't do this thing that it seemed like everyone else was doing. There wasn't this outcry that diabetes was this like, impossible disease, such that I was aware of. So I felt really bad about it for a long time, which like was more feelings that kept me from doing anything about it, because I was like, Oh, I feel bad when I think about that. So I

Scott Benner 31:10
won't talk about it. Right? Let me ask you a question. Like, your outcomes, like a one sees where they wildly high.

Anonymous Female Speaker 31:18
Usually 10s ish,

Scott Benner 31:21
okay. And nobody pushed back doctors, parents, nobody's like, Hey, we're doing the wrong thing here. Like, let's help her.

Anonymous Female Speaker 31:31
So I think that my Endo, my first endo was like, she's obviously not doing what she should be doing. I'm just gonna keep increasing her Lantis so that at least I could get some insulin. That's that and some coverage. And she's not reporting crazy lows. So I can just keep amping that up, up and up and up. And then I was steadfast, I will not get a pump, I do not want to pump. The the, the I had like a thing about, I didn't want to think on my body, how was I going to wear a bikini how was I going to wear a prom dress like it. And there was no adults to say, it doesn't really matter what you want. This is your health. And so I just sort of got away with it. And then, you know, and also sort of the luck of the draw. And so when I was in college, The End Note that I saw, I think he must have mostly seen type two diabetics because his recommendations to me were that I needed to eat the same meal at every, every day at the same time. And to start with oatmeal to start my day was like, none of that. None of that was right. And so I grew distrustful of doctors and just was like, this is something that I'm just gonna, yeah, it's just gonna be impossible.

Scott Benner 33:02
So was it your thought that you're a bright person? Was it your thought that I'm going to die sooner than I should? Did you ever consider that?

Anonymous Female Speaker 33:10
I knew that I would have complications. And I was concerned about it. But I didn't know really the contours. I think if somebody had told me, You're gonna have injections in your eye, I might have tried to do something

Scott Benner 33:23
harder, or that some of those complications might involve, you know, your heart thing. Yeah, well, and even

Anonymous Female Speaker 33:31
even just saying, like your kidneys or your feet or whatever. I don't think anybody like made it clear to be like, what that life would look like it was just like, be afraid that you these things might happen. And it wasn't tangible enough to feel like it ever really couldn't happen. It's sort of felt like I had gotten diabetes. That was a pretty hand. And so it was unlikely that I would then get these other terrible things as far as I was.

Scott Benner 33:58
Oh, you had that like a meteor already hit me thing. Yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 34:04
And, and, like, compounded with the idea that I was already trying. I had tried it I had tried to do the right thing. And it wasn't working. So what you know, the definition of insanity, right? Like,

Scott Benner 34:22
do you just have any, like big psychological impacts on you aside of your health, like, were you? I mean, do you feel like you grew up in a way that was less healthy than then it could have been in your mind?

Anonymous Female Speaker 34:38
I think that I learned hyper independence at a young age. And I think that it made me hesitant to connect with people and less like dependent on people that I in my 30 certainly have been trying to like unlearn. But I also think that those same things led to a lot of my success. And so it's hard to say like, this was on that, like, on that, excuse me, and that negative when, like, you know, I'm in law school on a scholarship, like these things wouldn't happen unless I had learned, really, at a young age, how to take care of the things I needed to take care

Scott Benner 35:21
of. So interesting hearing you talk like that, because you basically just argued both sides of your issue, and both sides seem kind of positive, you're like, you were like, I learned to be very independent, which is a bad thing, because I'm guessing the rest of that sentence was I don't let people in and don't let people help me. And then the but the other side of it is I'm having success. Because, you know, enough, I gotta stop me. Like I say it a different way. When I tell people like, right, I always say like, if the zombies come you come find me because I'll be okay, when this is over. But the but the rest of that sentence is because my father was pretty horrible. And I know how to live through horrible, you know, and it's not it, and would you give one back for the other like, would die. Like, you know, if my parents were like, warden June Cleaver, which I'm pretty sure as a reference, literally no one's gonna get at this point. But I was all like, soft and, you know, couldn't stick up for myself, like, what I'd make that trade or, you know, what I trade, uh, you know what I would, I'm okay with a couple of backhands at a 10 years old for saying the wrong thing. And God knows, I don't remember what the wrong thing was anymore. But but, you know, like, is part of that valuable in one way? Not valuable in another way? Look, it sounds like I'm arguing for child abuse. But I'm not. I'm trying to say, I mean, what's the saying? Tough. Something about pressure and diamonds. Right? You know, yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 36:55
Right. When you, you know, just makes diamonds or whatever?

Scott Benner 36:59
Or is that just a bowl thing that somebody made up to try to feel better about the fact that their father was throwing them into a wall? Like you don't I mean, like, I don't know. But anyway, it's interesting.

Anonymous Female Speaker 37:10
Well, and to be clear, my my parents were both like lovely and supportive and showed up at every dive meet and gymnastics meet and tennis, whatever. orchestra concert, you name it, they were there. I just think that they weren't ever able to wrap their heads around diabetes in that particular way. But I take your point about, you know, how those things then shaped who you are, because the way that I handled the way that I handled diabetes for so long, I was able to do because I was resourceful. Like, I think I would have maybe found some people to like, shake it out of me or intervene. But I was never I've never been hospitalized for diabetes, highs or lows. I've never, you know, had any really scary episode. Well, there is a scary episode that we should probably talk about, but never anything that made someone say that your life is off the rails, I was always able to say, oh, there's a Snapple stand, I'll just grab a juice or Oh, like, my, when I was a teenager, we were hiking in the Grand Canyon. And I happen to not have anything but the guy that would later be my husband was like, Oh, I have these weird, like cyclist. Jelly packs that we use for energy at will those work. And so I was always able to like, find a way because that hyper independence had given me the skills to be really good at figuring out any particular complicated situation. i But yeah,

Scott Benner 38:48
I've been pretty fascinated lately. And I'm watching people like, contradict themselves, like guy, I just put up an episode today, actually, that was recorded probably six months ago, with these two kids were in grad school together. And I was kind of focused in that episode about how the guy kept saying, you know, I didn't let diabetes hold my hold me back. But of course, his health outcomes were not good. But right in his mind, it didn't hold him back. And then the other part so he had had diabetes for a very long time. The other person in the in the episode Tori, she was more newly diagnosed came up through the podcast. And I asked her I was like Tory, does diabetes hold you back? And she said, No, I was like, but Tories they wouldn't see us lower and more stable. So it is a function a little bit of how you come up with it, the technology and the ideas that were available as you were coming up. I apologize. And and at the same time, you know, everyone does the same thing. It's always like, Oh, my parents were great. But they weren't but they were like, like there's a weird like dichotomy in there, right? Like your parents weren't like absentee people, and they weren't like disinterested, they just didn't have enough information to take it seriously. And you're even saying, the understanding of long term complications where just a person standing in front of you go on your feet, your kidneys, you're gonna pee blood, like you don't even like just nothing. Nothing tangible that you could be, you could wrap your head around, and it probably seems so far out in the future like it was never going to happen. My example that always is that people smoke all the time, and everyone thinks they're the ones that it won't get me. I'm okay. Gonna go. It's gonna give everyone else lung cancer, but not you like that. That's how people think. Right? I do think that's preservation.

Anonymous Female Speaker 40:44
Yeah, well, and like I said, I really believed that. If I could have done something, I would have done it. But I had tried and tried and tried and felt like, well, the complication, if the complications are gonna come, they're gonna come because I tried my hand at this. And it's just that it's not

Scott Benner 41:02
for me, I'm not gonna worry about something I can't stop. Right. But you were also a child when you were having those thoughts.

Anonymous Female Speaker 41:09
Well, I was when I started, and then that's it went well through my 20s.

Scott Benner 41:15
Do you think there's no winning? Like, when I say to somebody, Hey, would you have liked it? If your parents were more involved? They'll say, yeah, if my parents were more involved, I would understand this bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. And this all would have went better. But then you talk to somebody whose parents were very involved, and you're like, Hey, how was it? Your parents been very involved? I didn't like it. They were constantly on my back. Like, is it just the scenario where you just can't win? Like you, no matter what you do, you're gonna want the opposite.

Anonymous Female Speaker 41:43
I mean, I think anything taken to its extreme is probably going to be problematic. I think where, because I rebelled hard against my, the, what my parents tried to do, I pushed back on and it was uncomfortable for everyone involved. And so I think, for me, it just would have been a few key moments of like insisting that I was on a pump, or or just? I don't know, it's, it's a good question, because I definitely wasn't the sort of child that was going to be babysat. And then they kind of way, I had developed enough independence at that point that truly, if every meal was like, What's your blood sugar, I might have murdered someone. And so but on the flip side, there, there did need to be someone in the room to be a more rational, objective person. It's interesting, because in many ways, my partner my husband is now does that for me. So I, the next sort of chapter in the story is that when I tried to get into control, eventually, I had a really scary episode, and developed a severe fear of low blood sugar, which I had never had for them, you know, 15 years, and he has become someone who can be we call it like the astronaut brain. Because astronauts are always looking for like, what's the next thing that's gonna kill me, but it has to be calibrated because it can't panic while you're in space. And he has a very, like, grounded logical brain that allows him to look at a situation and say, okay, the number the line is starting to get flat. Now, I can see logically the line is starting to get flattened now, where when I'm in a, when I'm in an anxious moment, he I will just be like, well, but maybe I should drink some more apple juice, maybe maybe I should just a little bit more. And so he can be a voice of reason where, you know, when you're living, whatever that diabetic experiences, whether it is trying to find a low or whether it is not wanting to have something attached to your body, like there is a little bit of illogic that happens because you're feeling the feelings, instead of like being able to view the situation from a third party perspective. And so I think that there were moments where my parents could have done that, like, more of a worthy objective party in the room. Let us bring you back down from your, the feeling you're feeling right

Scott Benner 44:34
as the adult who's not busy. I'd like to weigh in on I think we can stop drinking the apple juice now. Right. Yeah. You know, earlier, you just, you know how, you know, at the beginning of the episode, you said you had to think about things that you weren't going to say. I've just thought of something I think I need to say and I don't think I should. that interesting. Crossroads, I think Yeah, I don't usually. Okay.

Anonymous Female Speaker 45:02
I think probably just say it.

Scott Benner 45:04
I think I figured out what Arden's churches. Oh, so Arden's not a combative child. And she's, I'm using the word compliant in the nicest way. She's a very compliant person. She's, you know about her diabetes, she doesn't fight against having diabetes. But she doesn't like swallowing pills that get stuck in her throat. And so she's supposed to be taking probiotics and a couple of other things. And she treats them like you're forced feeding her poison, and she knows it's poison. And the poison has razor blades wrapped around it, and you're trying to kill her with a gun at the same time. And I'm thinking now, is that where Arden finds her control over the uncontrollable stuff in her life? Like, does she just pick this little thing that she thinks, Oh, this isn't going to kill me? And I'll I'll make a stand here. So I feel like I'm in control of something. I'm glad you came on. Could be and where was Erica? She's done like 10 episodes about mental health stuff. I've never had this breakthrough with her. I hope she's listening. Let me down. Now, this was really, I actually decided to put it in the episode thinking maybe 35 year old Arden will hear this one day and be like, oh, yeah, that probably is what was happening. Maybe she'll call me and apologize. I mean, call me and tell me she misses me. Would that be weird?, hold on a second. You're jumping over this? What if in the future, my daughter calls me to say she misses me. And it's because of something I did in 2022 on a podcast.

Anonymous Female Speaker 46:47
I don't think that you're the sort of person she'll ever have the space or time to miss honestly.

Scott Benner 46:53
I'm insulted by love. Oh, no, I appreciate that. I can fill a room, you have no idea?

Anonymous Female Speaker 47:04
Ah, um, yeah, I think that it's been interesting to hear you talk about your sort of path with art. And because it's just so diametrically opposed to my, like, teenage years that it's hard. It's really hard for me to understand. I mean, Arden is certainly from a different generation than me, but like, the degree to which I fought diabetes, just doesn't seem to even occur to her at least from your description of it.

Scott Benner 47:38
Yeah, for the most part, she's getting ready to go. I think it like a day or so I said it funny. I don't even really know. I think it's early Thursday morning. She's gonna get on a plane with her class and fly to Disney. And they're gonna stay there for. Again, this is embarrassing. I don't know, three or four days. a while, you know, that'd be more than a day, you know. And I just got off the phone before I spoke with you with the traveling nurse that will be at Disney and I explained how we were going to do everything. And I said, you know, if you want to follow her Dexcom you can she said she would and I laid the whole thing out for her. She actually has a little bit of background with diabetes and that she helped an autistic child with type one at one point. So the kid was very unaware of the diabetes, and she had to know more about it. So I could hear in her descriptions that she saw some bigger picture stuff about overtreating and things like that. So I was like, Oh, this will be good. So we set up a group chat between my wife art and myself and the nurse. We're going to invite her to Dexcom later. I'm not nervous about that at all. I think Arden is going to go to college, 14 hours away by car. And I'm not even nervous about that. Like I think this is all going to work out okay. But it's important to say that when I say I think is going to work out okay, top line of what okay means to me is Arden's blood sugar's are stable within a certain range, and that we do everything we can to that that is first and foremost, like if she and I have to argue about probiotics. I am even cognizant of when we're arguing about it that at least we're not arguing about insulin. Right, right. Like that's most important and I guess maybe I didn't realize it but I think I think in that astronaut way you were describing I think of it as no first I say no to I find all the things to say no to first and then I thought and then I find the right things. My wife and daughter do not enjoy my thought process around that. But I eliminate all the problems and then I just enjoy the rest of it. But some I mean, you know go the opposite I guess.

Anonymous Female Speaker 49:59
Yeah. I am for sure the opposite, but I can appreciate the the It pairs well in my marriage just what I would say, Claire's. Well,

Scott Benner 50:12
I fascinated that you into the Grand Canyon without any fast acting carbs whatsoever.

Anonymous Female Speaker 50:17
Well, I had some in my bag, I just went on a five mile hike down the canyon without any, you know, that's fine.

Scott Benner 50:25
Okay, it worked out. All right. What else? Oh, here, why else? Why else are you on the show? Because you I remember you said things in your note. I don't know if I've gotten any of them.

Anonymous Female Speaker 50:36
Who knows what I said. Um, so I think the other piece of my story that could be helpful is so after. After a string of terrible endocrinologist, I found a good one. When I moved to LA, I found a endocrinologist that was, I was like, I'm gonna find someone who's great cutting edge of research, like, I'm just going to, I'm going to see if I can't find the best in the field to solve this, because I'm tired of having this like burden that I'm carrying around every day that is unsolvable. I found a doctor who was able to like recognize all the different pieces of what was happening to me, she got me on a Dexcom she started making changes to my long acting insulin. And was sort of cognizant that I wasn't going to be able to immediately switch to being on the pump, because I had fought it for so long and had this like, psychological stuff happening. But she was sort of also staying in her lane as the doctor and so she was like, You should probably talk to someone. But also, you know, we're gonna just make the small changes over time. So I switched to try Seba I, I tried to Frezza for a while. And we were sort of messing with my regime. And getting, you know, slowly but surely, making step taking steps out of a onesie, it took probably much longer than it should have. But, you know, we were going from 10 to eight. And it was like, Okay, this feels like progress, at least. And in the middle of that process, I went on a vacation, my husband and I went to Portland. And I always ran high. Obviously, I wasn't taking enough insulin. But when I would step away from work, the lack of stress often made me have lows that I wouldn't otherwise have. I would just regularly on vacation have these low loads that like in my normal day to day would not exist. We go out, we spend the day walking around, probably walk 10 or 12 Miles exploring the city, have a couple drinks, come back to the hotel room. It is, you know, probably 10 o'clock at night. And I want to have this donut from Voodoo Donuts. I think it's so fancier and gonna still live my best life even with diabetes. But my blood sugar is still high despite having walked around all day. And despite, you know, having tried to dose for dinner, and so I'm frustrated. And I take 10 units of human log thinking I'm covering the donut and also range bolusing for all the stuff that I've done throughout that day. Little did I know at the time, I was still taking too much long acting insulin and I had recently switched to Joseba, which was slightly more impactful than the Lantis that I was on. And you know, the effect of alcohol plus this rage Bolus meant that I wake up in the middle of the night, the Dexcom alerted that you're falling fast. And so I had fallen I would think I was falling. I want to say it was like 30 or 35 points each five minute time and so I'm just looking at this chart, but and seeing this like roller coaster of like, I'm gonna die. Like I'm not I'm not low yet. But looking at this and if I just keep drawing a line like this is aligned to death. I wake up my husband and freaking out. I am not in the middle of the Grand Canyon with no sugar. I have lots of sugar. So I'm drinking juice. I had some starbursts, I think trying to bring it up. But I'm panicking because I can see this like precipitous drop and start to get super anxious and I'm now crying and having sort of shortness of breath and eventually I work myself into such a panic that I start throwing up. And then at that point that only compounds the panic Because I now I'm like, Well, I'm not holding down the carbs, but I needed to bring me back up. And like, I'm just I'm gonna die here in this hotel room in Portland. What am I going to do?

Scott Benner 55:12
Was the Portland part the most upsetting?

Anonymous Female Speaker 55:17
No, I don't really have it out for Portland, lovely city. But I, you know, hyper independent, hyper aware I call an Uber I call taxi and I call the paramedics. Because I was like, I don't know this city. I don't know who's gonna get here faster. I don't know where the hospital is. And so interestingly, the taxi got there first and the paramedics then the Uber.

Scott Benner 55:42
I love that. That, by the way, is so freakin amazing foresight. You're like, three modes of transportation, whichever one gets your first.

Anonymous Female Speaker 55:54
And so when the paramedics showed up, they were like, well, put your blood sugar's not actually low. Because at that point, I think it was 70. And I was like, but look at the graph, it's gonna be low, like it's gonna be low. And they were like, man, we cannot treat you

Scott Benner 56:12
Was your husband sitting in that uncomfortable chair in the hotel room calling ex girlfriends gonna be like, Hey, I'm sorry, we broke up.

Anonymous Female Speaker 56:22
What I can say for him is that he has very chill vibes, very chill about the whole thing.

Scott Benner 56:29
A tree? He was like, Oh, no. Well, if

Anonymous Female Speaker 56:33
she, if she dies, I'll still have the trees.

Scott Benner 56:36
So did that experience, give you more anxiety? Or see because here's what I'll show you how your brain and my brain aren't similar, and yet are really I'm really enjoying talking to you, by the way, and are similar in different. What that would prove to me was, Oh, I could stop up a crazy fall. Like I did it. But what it proved to you was your blood sugar could fall on anywhere and you're gonna die. Is that right?

Anonymous Female Speaker 57:02
Well, and it, it seemed unpredictable. Like I had never had something like that happen. And so it was like, I couldn't trust the insulin. I in my lead up to the story. I gave you all the reasons why this happened. But in the moment, it was just like this is this uncontrollable unexplainable. Like I I did all the right things. And you know, diabetes is just impossible to understand

Scott Benner 57:29
coming again. Yeah. Yeah, I have a question. So you were you weren't like low while you were making those decisions yet. So you were like, like, you were panicking. But your your brain was functioning?

Anonymous Female Speaker 57:42
Right, right. So I could feel the drop. And I could, and I was like, deep in anxiety. And so this very, very kind. paramedic was like, ma'am, do you have anxiety issues? And I just started sobbing. looked at my husband and my husband said nothing as the life man.

Scott Benner 58:08
Now she's got a completely together. I've never once even noticed her shake her fingers. Like she doesn't get even nervous. That's fine. I'm just gonna go over here and look at the law. So So do you have do you have anxiety? Generally speaking?

Anonymous Female Speaker 58:23
Maybe, I don't know. How do you not know? I mean, I would the answer is probably yes. But like everything else. It's in degrees ingredients. And it depends on. Like, it's one of those things that like saying that you have as much like saying you have diabetes, saying that you have anxiety sort of it's like, oh, you have this uncontrolled, irrational anxiousness. And I would say that that irrational anxiousness is often prepared me well for various situations that

Scott Benner 58:58
you people call irrational I'd call getting ready. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put much into a five gallon bucket in case the Russians come.

Anonymous Female Speaker 59:11
My husband and I do you have a vague outline of what would happen if if we got into an apocalyptic scenario. And our friends know this and nowhere to go?

Scott Benner 59:21
So interesting. I know I've said this on here before but it fits here. I know which one of my second floor windows I would jump out of if I absolutely had to jump out of the house. Like I have a plan for what I would do if I met a bear. I know what I would do if I found a bottle and the Genie was inside of it. I have a lot of plans for things that aren't going to happen. But I don't. I also want to point out that I didn't spend a ton of time on my genie plan. It was like five minutes when I was 12. It made a ton of sense and I've held on to it like throughout my life. I was just very concerned, that if I found a Genie in a Bottle I would end up with a fast car, a huge penis. And like something else that I couldn't use five minutes later get an amen. So I was like, I was like I wanted, wanted to make sure I was thoughtful about it. In case it should happen, anyway. But I'm not I don't think about that constantly. Like, I don't have any anxiety around. Oh, if the house catches on fire, I don't own a ladder that goes a rope ladder. Although now that I said it, maybe I'm gonna get a rope.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:00:30
That's what you that's. But I think you're you're articulating the key distinction is that lots of people are running around very anxious, but they've not went got pills for it, or they've not identified it as a problem. Because most of the time, it's helpful. Yeah, I'm anxious. Right? Yeah. But you're describing anxiety. But it's that your planning is so good that you don't have to get into scenarios where your planning has fallen short.

Scott Benner 1:00:59
first wish, no matter what I wish for next comes true. Second wish I don't die before I can make my third wish. Then I wish for unlimited wishes. And that's it. Because I'm, I need the unlimited wishes because I can't figure out like how to like get this down to three things. And I know for certain that I'm going to drop that before I get the wish out of my mouth. So and then I know my fourth wish will be about health and my friends and my family. Like I'll put everybody in a good place. And then I'll rebuild my life the way I would if everything was perfect, and then probably ruin it and then live forever and hate myself for eternity. That's probably what would happen. I wonder how much of that was sarcasm? How much of it was true just now?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:01:50
I'm like a true anxious person, honestly. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:54
I find myself to be prepared around ideas. And it goes back to I will tell you that when I was a child, I would imagine my parents death so that I would know what I would do if it would happen. You think that's anxiety? Can't say I haven't been there? Oh, no kidding. I'm incredible. Maybe you're not anxious.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:02:16
the paramedic begs to differ

Scott Benner 1:02:18
as a paramedic, what's you know, it's probably he was probably on mushrooms when he got there else is Portland.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:02:25
Right? Correct. Yeah. Um, so we go back up to the hotel room, I'm still falling a little bit in has slowed down, I eventually do have low blood sugar, right about the time that we sit ourselves down at the actually it wasn't when we sat down it was when we when my biscuits and gravy and two giant Apple juices are delivered at the diner across the street from the hotel. So again, like hyper preparedness is a thing that has served me well. But after that moment, I had tremendous anxiety that at any time, in an uncontrollable unexplainable way that I was going to have low blood sugar. And I wrote in the two hundreds and even, there were there was a time where I was uncomfortable below 250. And I just couldn't, even though I had run around, you know, even though I had had this childhood full of doing all kinds of insane things never knowing or caring what my blood sugar was, I could suddenly below 250 was like, hard pass. cannot do it. Um, and so

Scott Benner 1:03:38
hello, I had this I'm sorry, how long ago was this?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:41
Um, I would say, five years ago.

Scott Benner 1:03:45
I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:47
No, no, no. And so I then had like, essentially, then went to move to Colorado found a new endocrinologist and I was like, I want to get this under control. And I'm willing to do anything put me on a pump, I think I think I should be on a pump. This doctor had heard that field before and was like, come back in three months, we'll see if we can put you on a pump. And I was like, No, I'm a serious person. And he was like, come back in three months. So I came back in three months. And he put me on a poem. And we but in that in that three months, I also went started seeing a therapist who was a diabetic and we just like really did intense cognitive behavior interventions to slowly but surely make small changes so that I could do the thing that you're talking about, which is like, see what the insulin did does trust that it does that every time. Trust that I know what is going to happen, and over time have been able to Now my agencies like in the sixes, my endo is like hi, bye loved it, love to see you. But it was probably like three solid years of work.

Scott Benner 1:05:10
At what point in that process? Do you find me?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:05:15
Pretty early. So after I want to say after I started having this anxiety realize I need to solve it. I'm like, I just need to fix sort of my relationship with diabetes, and I start to do all the things that I was a hard pass on before. So I joined some Facebook groups, I find the podcasts, I ordered some books online, I was like, we're just gonna, like immerse ourselves like denied the days of denial or past we have to like know what's going on. And so I found found the podcast listened straight through to the defining diabetes portion. That was called the pro tip.

Scott Benner 1:06:01
Defining variables. I got the pro tip episodes, newly diagnosed or starting over episode two times. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:06:11
I started there. And then just like, after I got through those, just listen to whatever was next in the feed. And at some point, you said something that truly, I think changed my relationship with diabetes, which was just like, if you want to, if you want more control, like, you should take less insulin, you won't have those swings. It's not, it's interesting, because it's not the like, take more be bolder thing. But it's like, these big doses of insulin that you're taking are then causing these crazy schemes. And so if you can just take a little bit that apple juice would cover, you'd be fine. And I was like, Oh, I can actually just do that. Here's a unit. Here's a unit and a half, like, that's fine.

Scott Benner 1:06:54
The Bumping and nothing made sense to you. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? How? My thing my words, whatever they are, get interpreted by different people different ways. Like I, I agree with you. I don't think I'm I don't think of how am I gonna say this? I'm not bold with insulin in the way that some people would think of those words, right? I'm bold in a way that to me means I use insulin in a way that most people don't think about using it. I'm bold in that it's different. I don't mean that I'm like, you know, like, hey, just drink the vial. Let's see if it works through your stomach to like, Let's inject it in both arms at the same time. Like I'm not like some crazy guy throwing insulin around all over the boys. I mean, my daughter's got some larger bowls. Is it times based on on how her settings are? Actually I was looking earlier while we were talking. She's at school. So I don't know what she ate. I have no idea because I'm not with her. But she Bolus 65 carbs was like 14 and a half units. Oh, man. Yeah. And I mean, she's doing alright, her blood sugar's 145. Like, it's level. Like, it looks like it looks to me like she didn't Pre-Bolus and that she over Bolus for something knowing that she didn't Pre-Bolus. And I've never actually even said that to her. Like, that's just something she's picked up from what we've done, you know, but anyway, I'm sorry, back to the, the terminology that gets thrown around. That gets sometimes attached to me. Like, I don't know, like it. The whole podcast has gotten too big. Like, I can't have a private conversation with everybody. But I think if someone came and interviewed me, you'd be surprised at some of my answers. Because I do think exactly what you just said. It's, it's about timing and amount. And if you use the right amount the right time, and you never get high, then you don't have to correct and if you don't have to correct a big high, you're not going to upload later, you know, nothing's perfect, but likely in that using more targeted insulin is is the way I can see where somebody who has had diabetes for a long time might hear the word bold and think I'm just talking about like use a mallet like Thor's hammer full of insulin but generally,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:09:22
the dose I took in Portland like that was bold. It was wrong decision.

Scott Benner 1:09:27
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you were bold with it. So you might have been like, poorly thought out and stupid with insulin. Like I don't rage I don't think of I don't think we rage Bolus ever. Like I've never just been like, just use a massive amount of insulin that I don't know is being covered or not because I gotta get out of this thing. Like, I'll crush it and catch it. But that's still a fairly well thought out process based on my experiences with insulin. So anyway, it's weird to put your thoughts out into the world like this and have so many people hear them because when you You hear them mirrored back at you. You're like, Oh, I didn't mean that. But, but it's almost like it's almost like a book review. Like I realized one day, like, if I'm going to take a good book review, I gotta take a bad book review. And if, and there are people who have heard me say something and applied it to their lives and had a lot of success with it, and sometimes when I hear them talk about, I think that's not what I meant. But, you know, like, if it worked for you great, like whatever you took from it. I think maybe I'm learning over time that even more, I'm gonna say something I don't know if I believe completely, but maybe more important than the ideas is the conversation. I don't know, maybe?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:10:44
No, I mean, I think that that connects to sort of one of the other things that I would just say that I wish I had known sooner in my diabetes journey is that like, the community actually does matter. I think I spent like 20 years not believing that the community matters. I was like, it didn't matter. I have this struggle with diabetes, I don't need to talk to anyone about it. I don't need to, like, have people feel bad for me. I don't need to explain why it's awful. Like we all know, it's awful the end. And I like a shoe the idea of diabetes camp, I was like, What are we going to like build pink Priuses and sort of shoot them out into the lake and burn them in effigy like a Viking funeral, like I just didn't understand or appreciate, like, what it would mean to have a community and what the value could be. And I do think it is like, to your point, the exchange of information, and the like perspective that you can get from seeing someone else do it differently. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:53
So I think a lot of pride, even though you weren't speaking to me, just then I take a lot of pride in that you feel that way. Because and again, this is not a judgment against those people. But in the beginning, when there were just a few diabetes blogs, they were all long term type ones who were living pretty scared lives, they were scared of lows too. And, you know, we'd make the same joke about diet soda over and over again, like, I can see why you wouldn't want to be a part of that community. But also, that was their truth. And they were sharing it. But the problem I always found is that then the community got built around voices that didn't know what they were doing all the time. Like, it's not that their stories weren't important, because they're incredibly important and sameness and community in that way is is valuable in a way that's hard to put into words like I'm not, I am not coming down on what happened. I just think that that's where it started. Like, if there was no diabetes community, before the day I decided to make this podcast, it's possible that that community would have built out around the idea of, you know, maybe you have more control over all this than you think you do. And, and so it got built out that way, I can see why it drew a lot of people in and I can see why it repelled a lot of people away. Also, you just threw in a skewed, like, into the conversation like none of us were gonna hear it. You and your fancy education.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:13:24
I went to state school. It's not that fancy.

Scott Benner 1:13:28
I'm just teasing you. I like your usage. I heard it, I'm just I'm giving you props. I like to use it anyway. My pride comes from thinking that maybe there's another generation of people who's, you know, who will be a little bolder in their ability to find answers for themselves, and to apply things that they've learned. You know, I just watched in the Facebook group yesterday, this person, and I understood where they were coming from. So they get into account, they're newer to the Facebook group, they clearly don't listen to the podcast, which is a weird dichotomy for me. Because in my mind, I don't even know how you know about the Facebook group if you don't listen to the podcast, but it's gotten to that point where my Facebook group has become so popular and big, and I think valuable for people that it attracts people in anyway that never heard the podcast. Now you have a newer diagnosed child, the parent is real fear based at still, which is understandable. Some person asks a question, and the responses start coming back that are very rooted in the podcast. And there are people saying like, hey, try this episode, try listening to this Bah, blah, blah. And it just overwhelmed. One person who came in and was like, you can't listen to a podcast over your doctor. And I was like, whatever. Like she can say whatever she wants. I don't care. Like, like, you don't mean so they're having this conversation back and forth. But I could see how afraid she was. She was afraid that someone was going to say something that another person was going to misunderstand. And it was going to be detrimental to their health. And she felt so passionate about it that she kept arguing. And people were like, look very kind to her, I thought, I thought the conversation was very clear, like, look, you know, I think you've you, maybe you should try this. And she just kept pushing back, I could tell she felt like she was saving someone's life. And so I didn't, I thought nothing of it, I let the conversation go on, and on and on. It actually wasn't until, and I very, very infrequently do this, but I had to, like, block her from the group because she started DMing people, like really fearful things. And I thought, well, this is such a strange thing. Because one day, this lady won't feel this scared. And she will look back on this moment, and be embarrassed, and she shouldn't be, but but she will be. And, but that's if she's lucky. And she gets the information, and she figures out how to collate it and use it in her life. Or she might just blow off into the breeze like you did as a kid, and live there forever. And I felt a real responsibility to not let her just fade away. And it wasn't until she, you know, went behind people's but like she was doing it privately that I thought, Okay, I can't give her access to these members, they need protection from something like this. But I would have been happy if she would have kept the conversation in the space. Because I think it could take her months to grow away from that fear. And I wanted her to be able to do it. But she got a little too internet crazy. So it had to stop. But Well,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:16:38
it's interesting to watching sort of the juicebox community because it so many of the people that are in it are parents of type ones and not type one themselves. I mean, there are people like me too, but there it creates this interesting dichotomy because like the idea that you would just trust your doctor 100% When, when you're a diabetic, you know, you have to then go home and make these decisions. And that it all is kind of a gamble, and that the doctor only knows like this much of your entire diabetes, sort of experience in life. It may, I don't know, maybe I'm just like, a naturally skeptical person. But it the idea that you would just be like, what only the doctor can know, is something that is hard to understand. But I think that if you're a parent of a child, and like watching that unfold, I can imagine how scary that would be. And so you have to trust the only thing that is saying, I'm correct, I'm

Scott Benner 1:17:40
right. Yeah, right guys got a coat on hat. And there's a thing hanging on his wall, like he must know. Actually, you know, it's funny. I know the makeup of the Facebook group, there are way more adults in there than you think they're just very quiet. They don't talk. They don't talk as much as the parents. But they're there. I don't know that it's 5050. But it's closer to 65 divided than you than you might think it is. It's very interesting. And when the adults do pop up their stuffs always super valuable. Because they've got context that that the parents don't have. I'm proud that there's an interplay in there between adults and parents, because it's hard to I don't know, I don't understand people's minds and why they, they they run off into teams, and they want to be on teams. And it's all important, like I'm an adult with type one, and you're a parent with type one, or you have type one, and you have type two, or you like the Kansas City Chiefs, and I like that, like I don't understand why people care about that, if I'm being perfectly honest. But it happens. It's very real. And any time that you can bring a couple of teams together and let them see each other's you know, inner workings, I find it to be really valuable. Anyway,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:18:55
I saw I saw a post this morning about silver linings and you know, she clearly a new a newly diagnosed kid and she's just like, there will never be a silver lining. Like what is this person even asking me about? And I was like, Oh, I could probably articulate some silver linings having lived with us and and like I'm someone who has complications. I'm someone who has done the whole roller coaster and I could still probably articulate a few. So I do think that that like Interplay from being able to hear from someone who's further along the line to when you're just newly diagnosed is one of the more beautiful parts of the podcasts in the Facebook crew. I think

Scott Benner 1:19:37
one of the cool parts about my job is that I saw that post as well. And I know where it's gonna go, because I've seen it 100 times before, and it's gonna go in a really good place. And that person is going to get a lot out of it. I even know how they're going to feel when it's over. Because I've seen it play out so many times. There are times when I see stuff like that pop up and I go Oh, that's good. But I can't wait for people to have this conversation, that's a great conversation for them to have just the same way as sometimes somebody says something like, there's no good end to this, like this is, this is not going to end well, like it can't like it, just it and not that it couldn't, by the way, everybody could make the right decision. But I haven't seen it yet.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:20:20
You have so many people in a room, it's just headed in that direction,

Scott Benner 1:20:25
almost feels like what it might be like to be like a judge, and have presided over 10,000 cases, like when you're 70. And somebody you know, in the to the plaintiff and the defendant stand up and they start talking, you're like, I already know how this is gonna go. You know, like, it's not that people don't have real agency, it's just that there are a finite number of decisions you can make. And eventually, you know, I know we all like to feel special, but my life's not much different than, than yours, and vice versa. And you sometimes you just know how it's gonna work out. So I love watching people find answers. And I like watching them get to them in ways that I at least believe are valuable. in a bigger way than just what I see in front of me, like, I know how growth goes like, like, there are people who, who email me. And they, I mean, they, they feel like their five seconds of throwing themselves off a building, you know, and I just tell them, like, I already know how this is gonna go, like you don't know, but trust me, here's what you need to learn. Once you learn that, apply it after you apply it, you'll feel better after you feel better, you'll see a bigger picture, eventually, you know, six months from now, you won't feel this way. And you'll send me an email and tell me you don't feel this way. And then six months from now, the email comes back in there. Okay. So I mean, if everybody can believe me, it's gonna be all right. Just gotta get your basil right. Pre-Bolus and learn about the different impacts to your foods. And yeah, you'll learn how to use insulin, it'll be okay. Do you have to go? I saw you look aside.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:22:03
I've got 10 minutes.

Scott Benner 1:22:05
Do you have anything? Are you? Well, then here? Here's the question. Is there anything that we haven't talked about? That you want to talk about?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:22:15
That's a good question.

Scott Benner 1:22:16
Want to throw out a couple of big words or anything like that? What other words do you know? I know some words. Yeah, are they gonna be?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:22:26
So I think that what I will say, I think I would just double down on the community piece. So my whole life, I didn't know anyone that was diabetic, it was just me. And I suppose my uncle, but he's had a hard life. And I was not something I thought of as a role model. And so I and I always thought that was fine. And I think that. So coming to the law school, there happens to be like six or seven of us running around with Dexcom here. And there's a there's a little bit of a Dexcom exchange and a low blood sugar Exchange, or a low blood sugar treatment exchange. And there's a crew of girls that like follows each other. And that is the first time really that I've had that in person connection. And I got a taste of it in the podcast, and then was willing to, like, do that in real life. Because I had seen like how much the podcasts had benefited how I thought about diabetes. And I just think that if there was one thing, I would leave like parents with of type ones with but also type ones too. Like, you should probably go find a community, even if the whole idea is abhorrent to you or if it's like pretty difficult. I think that there is real value in not being alone in this disease. Sorry, I was trying not to swear. But are you

Scott Benner 1:24:08
with her so much? 234567. I've made nine notes of where I have to pick out cursing, figuring it out an hour and 20 minutes into it.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:24:21
No, no, that was the tame version. Honestly, it was it was the censored version.

Scott Benner 1:24:27
I think that community can have a bad connotation for people. I think that they can see it as Kumbaya and we're all going to just like say positive things to each other. And you know, and it's gonna be a lot of people don't want that. I have to be honest. I wouldn't want that either. But,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:24:45
I mean, that's what I thought it was. I honestly thought that like when people talked about being in community, it was like we're gonna hold hands and talk about the Dexcom sensor and I was like, No, thank you to all of that. Right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:24:58
I'm Good. But it what it really is, is it's an invisible support system. And that's important. Like the not feeling alone is really important. Not Being alone is more important. And I think that's where the blend of, I mean, if I can, like, I guess I'm going to speak for myself here, which is gonna, I'm gonna sound like a douchebag in a second. But I think that what I, in a second, do you think most people were like, yeah, and for the last hour and a half those podcasts, and most of the episodes, but at TQ people I say, off, but I think what I've done is that I've found a way to take the community and blend it with actual, like ideas that are helpful. So that the community can just be this thing, like, it's supposed to be like this, this energy in the background that exists, and it will buoy you, but isn't something that you physically have to be touching constantly to be a party to? theirs. I someone should do a dissertation on what this podcast is like one day, like I hope I live long enough for somebody to break it down as their grad student project. Because I think that between the information that's in my head about insulin, how I think about the world, my ability to communicate with people, my ability to take something that I mean, let's be honest, should be really boring. And I think I do a pretty good job of it not being boring. And then to bring all these people together from all over the world, by the way, like, I don't have as many international guests on as I could. But people are listening everywhere, and just how it's empowered people from somebody who's had diabetes for 20 years and, you know, felt like they were at a loss to people who have, you know, just found that they felt that they have diabetes today. And and delivered a message that they can all on some level absorb and find useful. I mean, honestly, I don't know how I did it. Like you don't you mean, like, it just worked. I just, I don't even feel like, I don't even feel deserving of saying that I did it. I just had this idea. And I kept falling it to where it makes sense next, and building on it where it makes sense. And there are plenty of ideas that people had. I'm like, No, that's not right. Like, and I don't know if I'm wrong, but I've ignored things that, like right now people are trying to get me to start a babysitting thing. And I'm like, yeah, no, I can't, like I have a finite amount of time. And you don't understand the legality around that. Like, I can't be involved in you finding a babysitter who shows up in your house and then takes the Ginsu knives and kills your dog. You know what I mean? Like that? I can't be involved in that. Is it a bad idea? It's not, but it won't reach as many people as you think it's, it's a finite need in a certain age. You won't reach as many people as you need to make it popular, like I know, that can't work without like a ton of money, and I don't have that money to put into it. So I'm able to kind of like go, no, that idea is not good. But then, you know, bringing Jenny in just that was obvious. And well, you know, sorry, no, you're fine.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:28:18
I feel like I've told you this in maybe several Instagram posts, because it comes over me as an organizer a lot. But it does, like the structure of the podcast seems like very much grounded in the principles of community organizing, and that you have this like, belief or belief system. That is, you know, what works, essentially, and then you've just been talking about it, and that people, people will hear it. And if they like what they hear and believe what they hear and find it useful, they stay. And then you start to build this group of people. And I think what's cool is in the time that I've sort of been watching, I see, like leaders, so there's a whole there's a whole model of community organizing, this is really nerdy, so sorry, but it's called the snowflake model. And it sort of builds out from a center leader and then they build out these additional leaders and those people go tell other people and and build this snowflake of people that are more powerful, quote unquote, then just any individual sort of in a room by themselves. And I think that the I've seen that happen with the podcast, like they are now ambassadors or leaders or whatever nodes of people that are gonna go out and talk about how to bump in nudge and how to think about timing and amount in ways that before they were at the Met the podcast, they would not have done that. And I think that like that is how that is what political organizers hoped for, and almost can never find but I think the difference between sort of a political message and what you have to offer is that it is concrete improvement in people's lives if they choose to apply it and so like it makes sense That continues to exponentially grow.

Scott Benner 1:30:03
Am I the center of the snowflake? Unfortunately, Yeah, unfortunately, yes, yeah. Hey, listen, you can't you can't pick who it ends up being. I know it's upsetting that it's me. But again

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:30:18
no question that Martin Luther King would ask.

Scott Benner 1:30:24
I was just trying to build a picture of what you're saying, because I think you swallowed the word snowflake when you first started it. So I was trying to make sure people understood. And then I did it in a way that was self effacing. Because, you know, I don't know. That's just how my brand brand, right? So. But no, I actually had three. It's funny, as you were finishing, I had three questions. And I was like, do I go with the funny one? Let's towards the end, I'll keep it light. Or, and then I thought, or do I go with the more serious one. I'm like, Oh, she might run out of time. And then I defaulted to stupid. But I really, it's amazing to hear you explain that. Because I've been learning this as I'm doing it. I had no idea about any of this. Like, it's very, like, I'm not lying to you. The first month I made this podcast 1300 times it was downloaded. So I don't know what that means. There were only four episodes. I mean, rough math, there's probably like 400 people listening maybe. And I mean, last month, I think it were like 350,000 downloads. So it's, I've had to grow along with it. And trust me, if I don't keep figuring it out and staying flexible the way I am, this thing would have died 1000 times already. Like, I know, it seems like you just build this thing. And it grows exponentially on its own. But it's not. It's like every time I look up, this is an entity that is different than the entity it was three months prior. And so I have to keep, like there was a time where I had to be online answering people's questions. And now people answered the questions for me. And so I can move my my focus to a different thing. There's a time when I had to take a lot of phone calls from people, because I couldn't reach them with the podcast yet. So I would reach them personally. And then they would go out and tell their people, it's simple to just say it's word of mouth. Because it is the podcast grows completely through word of mouth. But I have I was gonna say something that sounds so douchey. But like, I think you have to have like your finger on the pulse of what's happening. And you have to keep adjusting. And if you do it wrong, you have to be able to throw your hands up and say, Oh, they don't care. Like, we started animating the defining diabetes series for YouTube. And we got like three or four of them up and I'm like, oh, people don't care about this. And I contact the animator was like, Stop, like, stop. She's like, you don't want to finish? And I'm like, no, no, stop, it's over. It didn't work. Like right, like, I'm gonna try a different way to do it. Again, I have we have the content, I'll try it a different way. I'm like, but I want you to shift and start taking 32nd clips out of episodes and making them into animations. And we'll try them on different social media platforms instead. And if that doesn't work, I will abandon that in three seconds. And that's where companies are screwed. Because they make a decision. It's people's jobs. Nobody wants to say the thing that they had an idea about was bad. So they will follow a bad idea right to their death. And I'm just like, No, no, that's not working stop, we got to pivot. And

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:33:31
well, and what you're describing is like, also, what politicians have to do and are so bad at but like, the ability to focus on what actually matters. And what actually impacts lives like is what sorry to, like, take it to politics, but like that's what a good politician can do, and can stop, you know, a organization of hundreds of people and say we were doing this, we're shifting message because like the you're wrong about what actually matters and what's happening impact. And so, to that end, I think that as I it's funny that you bring up the animations because I saw those I was like, this feels odd. I don't know what Scott is doing with these. Exactly. And so it's funny, then that that plan that seems like it's shifting or changing and it doesn't doesn't surprise me that you are capable of recognizing that. And then moving back to like what is making traction because that is something that you have to be able to do in a political in any sort of movement. Like I keep making it political. It's

Scott Benner 1:34:34
a great example of that people don't really know what they want. And that's where leadership comes in. So people think they want the animations. They like the idea of it. I will show this to my kid and my kid will understand Pre-Bolus thing now because of this and even while they were saying I was like that's not right. Then enough people said it. I was like, Alright, well let's give them what they want. And so like I gave it to him, I was like, Oh, you don't want this. You think you want this? And I was like oh that's interesting. So now you know it's set up, and it's easy to do. So I'm like, well, let's just make little clips of it. And we'll see if we can make it work on tick tock or Instagram, like stories or stuff like that. And if it works great, and if it doesn't, then to me, that's what leadership is leadership is being able to say, you know, a, I know what it sounds trust me, if you're listening, you're gonna think it sounds horrible, but I probably have a better idea of what you need around diabetes than you do at this point. And it's

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:35:28
leadership and it's parenting, you want to date the bad boyfriend, but I can tell you right now, it's not gonna work

Scott Benner 1:35:36
out with the guy who has goo at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. And is like, here, this is the stuff I eat when I'm riding my bicycle and it will bring your blood sugar up. Yeah, no,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:35:45
the only man who brought water sometimes. Exactly.

Scott Benner 1:35:49
Alright, we had a great time, didn't we? Yes, yes, we did. Can I call this episode if it pleases the court? Sure, can I? Because I don't know what else to call it right now. curses a lot. It dog. He got his called dog. No one will even get that that was an hour and a half ago. Right now people listening are like what is she talking about? So I was like, alright, real quick. It's Kamala Kamala Kamala, I keep saying it wrong. Kamala Harris, her husband's name is Doug. If you didn't hear that, an hour and a half ago, you weren't paying attention and you've insulted me. And that's the end of this. Alright, go learn how to be a lawyer. What kind of lawyer you're going to defend people or throw him in jail.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:36:31
I'm obviously going to defend people. Good for you.

Scott Benner 1:36:35
Very nice. All right. You were terrific. You'll be back on one day. All right, you let me know. Alright. Take care.

Bye. Want to thank for coming on the show. I want to thank Omni pod for sponsoring the show. I want to thank Nick Contour Next One blood glucose meter for sponsoring this stuff for sponsoring the show. I don't know what happened just there. On the pod.com Ford slash juice box, go find out about the Omni pod five, or the Omni pod dash, whichever strikes your fancy. And of course, at contour next one.com Ford slash juice box, you can get my daughter's blood glucose meter. It's terrific. It just is contour next one.com forward slash juice box.

If you're into helping people, especially people with type one diabetes, I'd like to ask you to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. When you get there, fill out the survey completely. And you've helped somebody, all you need to be is a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, t one D exchange.org Ford slash juicebox. Join the registry, complete the survey, help someone with type one diabetes, help yourself perhaps and support the Juicebox Podcast, you will do all of this in the fewer than 10 minutes that it will take to go to that link and complete the survey. The survey is very simple. You'll know all the answers to all the questions. It is also HIPAA compliant and completely anonymous. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. There are the links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com. To all of the sponsors. And to T one D exchange. When you take the time to click on my links or to type them in a browser. You're telling the sponsors that you came from the Juicebox Podcast and that is a wonderful way to support the show. Are you looking for a vibrant and intelligent community around diabetes? look no farther than the Facebook page, the private Facebook page for the Juicebox Podcast. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. The group has over 28,000 members. And those members are responsible for between 70 and 110 new posts every day on the Facebook page. Every conceivable conversation around diabetes is happening at Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook, you're gonna see great questions, thoughtful answers, and supportive people. No matter if you're an adult living with type one diabetes, or the caregiver of someone with type one. This group is for you. Doesn't matter if you eat low carb or high carb or somewhere in between your questions and thoughts are welcome on our Facebook page. I hope you check it out. Last little bit if you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series or the Finding diabetes series or any of the other multitude of series that exists within the podcast, you can find them in a number of ways. They are at juicebox podcast.com. They are at diabetes pro tip.com. And if you belong to the private Facebook group, you can find them listed in the featured tab. Now if you're enjoying the podcast, please consider sharing it with someone else that helps the podcast grow more than anything word of mouth is definitely how the show has become what it is. If you have already shared it with everybody you can think of and you've bought it on the potter decks calm or supported one of the other sponsors. You've done the T one D exchange survey. And now you're looking for another way to give back to the podcast, super simple. A five star rating and a thoughtful review in whichever audio app you listen in would be amazing. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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