Scott Benner 8/16/22 Scott Benner 8/16/22

#734 Balaboosta

Ali's son has type 1 diabetes and is preparing to live abraod.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 734 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is with Ali. She is the mother of a 19 year old with type one diabetes who is preparing to live abroad. And while he's preparing, so as Ali, please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, and are a US resident or you are the caregiver of someone with type one, and a US resident, go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox to take the survey when you complete the survey. Your simple answers to simple questions about type one diabetes will help other people living with type one, they'll also help you and me. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. completely anonymous. Absolutely HIPAA compliant only takes 10 minutes. Go answer those questions for me, please.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one. They're an organization doing great things for people living with type one diabetes. And all they want is for you to find out more about them touched by type one.org. You can also follow me on Facebook, and Instagram. Today's show is also sponsored by in pen from Medtronic diabetes. If you're looking for an insulin pen that does more than what you expect. You're looking for the in pen in pen today.com To find out more.

Ali 2:09
And Ali, I am a mother of currently 19 year old who is on a year abroad in Israel. And he was diagnosed the three and a half years ago.

Scott Benner 2:24
19 years old three and a half years ago. He is not currently in the country, even he

Ali 2:30
is not in the country. He is really really far. We're texting diabetes, different time zones, kind of not able to get texts sometimes it's fun.

Scott Benner 2:44
Interesting. Let's go back a little bit to the beginning. So okay,

Ali 2:48
very beginning. So we're religious Jews. So there's a lot of like very specific holidays and things. So we had Rosh Hashanah, which is our new year. The whole family, you know, was together in one house. And he was very similar. That, you know, he had a sore throat and he was throwing up. So I got him some antibiotics. And we said, okay, so you know, we'll be home in a couple of days, we'll take you to the hospital and take it out there. And he was okay with the first day. He had lost weight. And my mom was like, so excited, took him shopping, and she got some new clothes. She was like, so excited. And that summer, we hadn't seen him in a long time because he was in a sports camp. And then after the sports camp, he went to hockey camp. So it wasn't like a long Oh, he doesn't feel good. Right? Um, so I guess could get a sore throat. So he's like sitting on the couch. It was his

birthday. The 16th birthday, we got ice cream

cake, and he didn't eat it, which is typical ice cream cake. And it was just like on the couch. And and then when we finally took them to the doctor, yeah, I went to work. And my husband was in the doctor. I was like, get a strep test. So he goes to the doctor and he's like, he's like, we're going to the hospital. So, you know, so he got his diagnosis. And I was like, like, I definitely did not believe it. I was like, these people are idiots. They didn't even do a strep test, you know? And then, you know, when I came here, my husband was with him the whole time. You know, he stayed with him. And it was it was I was convinced eventually. So he's nobody, there was nobody no Nobody in our family had any kind of diabetes and even he only had one marker. So the last time you went to Endo, she's like, Well, I'm not going to change your diagnosis because your markers didn't come up. But, you know, maybe there's a different marker. We're not testing, like his one marker that it took him a long time to kill his pancreas.

Scott Benner 5:21
Okay, so, alright, so at the end of his 15th year, he's off at a couple of sports camps. He's gone for a while you don't see him, he comes back. It's a holiday, you're around family, not at home, and he's sick. You think he's got strep, which makes sense. Here. Your mom is on a different path. With like, Oh, it's a great time to buy new clothing. And, and then you get this diagnosis. So how, how long was he in? Was he in the hospital? Did they ever admit him?

Ali 5:56
Yes. So we went to the pediatrician, he said, like go to this hospital. We went to Hackensack instead of the local, you know, the local one. And they have a Mali center for diabetes, which is, you know, pretty extensive, and it's associated with Jocelyn, and it's like a good place to go. Of course, you know, whenever other people told us, no, you got to go to Boston. You got to go to Philly, you got to go to New York, you know, but we were you know, we're in Hackensack pretty happy. And I was kind of picking the doctor. So every five minutes, a different doctor comes in. And there's one doctor that he was like heavy his I put them on the list, Javier Eisenberg, he's like, cool, and a guy and he's got like, you know, big curly hair. And he was like the head of the whole department. So I'm like, okay, that's the one. And when you call him to make the appointment, they're like, Oh, well, we don't have any problems with him. But you can have our nurse practitioner that graduated last year. Do you want that? So we got, you know, eventually got in. It's also like, a little specific to Jewish people as we have this thing called beaker holing, which is people visit sick people. And it's like, you know, it's a big thing. And they also have a setup in the hospital. So the bigger home room, which is, I guess they pay the hospital to have a room. And that room is stocked with like all this kosher food and like, people bring it in all the time. And the restaurants donated. And so we had like, somewhere to hang out. And we had cooked food. And then people start calling and like the first person that calls is rabbi, because, you know, he hears somebody tells him and he hears and you know, what do you want when you want? So Mike, so it gets my kid on the phone, and my kid says I want French fried pizza. So we're like, Okay, enjoy pizza. So like, you know, he comes over and he brings it up. And he's like, he gets on the phone with me. He's like, is there anything you want? I'm like, Just Just bring some vegetable soup. Okay. Just give us something that's somewhat normal. I No, pizza is hard. I don't know anything. Right. So, you know, but I'm going on all the little Facebook groups and somebody's got a friend and the friend calls me and they you know,

Scott Benner 8:34
fascinated that you found a Jewish doctor from Buenos Aires. I don't know how you did that. Right. His name was Javier Eisenberg. And I was

Ali 8:48
kicked us out when he was 18. But last two years. Well, yeah, I

Scott Benner 8:52
mean, pediatrics. They move you on? They move you on when you're 18. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, tell me about. I mean, I'm interested because I sort of know where your story goes to some degree. So I'm trying to pick apart a little bit. So let's find out next. When do you find the podcast and this process?

Ali 9:12
Pretty pretty early. Okay. Pretty early. We, cuz I was on Facebook groups, like the first thing I did was like, very specific good. You know, Jewish mothers in New Jersey, diabetes, the very specific groups. And then yeah, and then somebody new you and was on your podcast. I don't think you've had a Facebook group yet.

Scott Benner 9:34
It was not if it was a few years ago, I think. Yeah, that thing's coming up on two years. So yeah,

Ali 9:41
yeah. And you know, if you're if you're on it, you definitely know I'm on it. I love that group. They're so great. And yeah, so we we stayed in the the we stayed for that weekend. To the Shabbat, and they have an apartment and they, you know, you stay in their apartment, the bigger home people. And you get these, like little gift box then with a little note in it, and my daughter wrote the note, like months and months before, because any, anytime, you know, one of our friends is like, Oh, we're packing boxes, and my all day is I go over with a couple kids and a couple of nieces. And we're packing boxes, and my daughter was the one that wrote the note. So I was like, Oh, that's so

Scott Benner 10:32
cool. So you're so so people understand. So there's a community support at the hospital. And volunteers make up gift boxes. You had done that in the past and your son, and yeah, I think it's hilarious. It's very funny. He listened any chance they kept him in the hospital for eight days and eight nights?

Ali 10:56
That would be cool. I

Scott Benner 10:56
think, just for fun.

Ali 11:01
No, but it's holiday season. Right? So we were scared that he would be he was there that Shabbat but we were scared he was going to be there, you know, three days laters Yom Kippur, which is like a very, very big holiday. And it's a fast day. That was his first basil test was Yom Kippur. So, you know, thank God, he was out. And we were able to do that. But you know, at least we were out.

Scott Benner 11:27
Well, how was his blood sugar super high at diagnosis or no?

Ali 11:32
So he was he was he was 13.

And a sugar was 330. Okay. So and then, by December's the next time they took it, it was 6.8. And it was seven after that. Right. So he was pretty controlled right away. We got a Dex Right, right away. The first appointment, we had this fabulous nurse and the deck the six had just come out. So she was like, you want the six. But it might be hard to get because it just came out. So you know, so she's prodding us, like, is there any reason that I can tell the insurance to expedite it? Like, does he go to school? You know, further, I'm like, yeah, he goes to school, New York, you know, like, and does he play sports? And like, yeah, he's an athlete. He's an athlete. Like, he played two varsity sports, but like, it's yeshiva league floor hockey, you know, like,

exactly Major League here. But

you know, that's gonna bring his blood sugar down. Pushing Yeah, we got the ducks right away. And then the pump, they require you to do training. It's not that they didn't want to order it. But there's, there's some training,

Scott Benner 12:46
they had rules they wanted. Yeah.

Ali 12:49
First of all, everybody's there, I'm there, my husband's there. He's there. You know, I'm trainers and everything. And a whole bunch of wooden fruit, vegetables and twit the smallest bowl of rice you ever saw. And a little potato and a big apple, you know, and they want you to be able to figure out what 15 carbs is. So each thing is 15 carbs. So,

uh, so that was kind of cool. I like that.

And then the next visit already, they're showing us pumps. And they wanted us to be not they want us but like they were pushing the Basal IQ, because they're like, this is safer. We're gonna do the Basal IQ. And that or, you know, some teenagers really like the AMI pod because it's, you know, simpler and it doesn't have tubing and stuff. So my, my son's a one look at it. He's like, I'm not having wires coming out of my body, you know? Like, he's just like, not at all interested in the quad if it was a better quality or not, not okay. So it turns out, it's great quality. You know, we're very happy with Omnipod. And we're, we're in for the five to come out. Yeah. He also wouldn't he also wouldn't loop they, they wouldn't let us loop but he would not do it because we started on Eros. He wouldn't do it. Because it's like, you know, it's not FDA approved. I don't know. But

Scott Benner 14:28
I try. My daughter said what is this? Is that gonna kill me? And I was like, I don't think so. She's like, alright. Whatever the shot then. Yeah. Okay. So would you how would you characterize his first couple of years with diabetes? In a couple of different regards. Was your the health part of it where you want it to be? Was it a struggle? Did you figure it out? And how did he handle it emotionally? Was he you know, did Did he kind of mesh with diabetes? Or did he brusque against it? How did all that go?

Ali 15:06
So, he is a very, like, chill, kid. Like, he's nothing really fazes him. So he wasn't, he wasn't like a stick to nothing. And in the beginning when he's, you know, testing blood sugars and MDI, he had a huge box, this time pod box, and he would bring it like, all over the place and be like, Hey, you want to you want to eat a pie pot, you know. And he was very proud of his, I think it was very proud of his amount of needle district

Scott Benner 15:50
is keeping his like old like syringes. And in this tie pod box.

Ali 15:56
Yeah, that was our that was our sharps container. Nice. And he would like offer it to people to eat. Yeah. So like, he would really like he's very, very social. So he would go to these events and like NCS, why is the use groups that they're in? So they have stuff every week that has stuff every Shabbat? And you'd be with a group of people, you'd be like, Hi, I'm diabetes, you're not like, I don't know, he was not. He was not particularly fazed by it. I would say in the very beginning, he missed a whole month of school, because the doctor is just like, alright, let him Let him get used to it. And in the fall, there's like school every one, two days, you have like, at the most two days a week because all the holidays. So they're like to stay home until the holiday season is over. And then he'll come back. So he goes back to school. And his friends were like, we thought you got kicked out. Why didn't you call us he's like we made this wasn't, I'm gonna call you and say, Hey, I gotta diabetes. Like that was the very beginning. And then by the end by like, two months in. Yeah, he was like saying hi on diabetes. Like, it was not something that he was at all ashamed of.

Scott Benner 17:13
Right? You know, when you guys are on holidays, we all just sit around in public school or like, Thank God for the Jewish people and all their holidays.

Ali 17:23
I wish we got all of them off in public school.

Scott Benner 17:26
I don't know what this Yom Kippur thing is. But I got the whole day off baby.

Ali 17:32
Yeah. You can eat too. It's like amazing.

Scott Benner 17:37
And I can eat too. Yeah, it was a whole free day for us.

Ali 17:42
I don't know I have I have Muslim patients and they got a whole month. They get a whole month and not eating. And the kids do it. Like the older kids do it.

Scott Benner 17:52
They can stay a month they do it. Yeah.

Ali 17:55
Rather than is a whole whole month. Like there's six days a year. Six days. That's quite the basil test.

Scott Benner 18:02
I sometimes forget to eat. I don't know if that counts. Yes or No. for a whole day. It's totally totally it. Exactly the same. I don't feel compelled by any religious reasons. When I do it. I just forget. So she you think he's laid back? He's doing okay. But then, you know, I become, I mean, aware of you, but the, you know, through the Facebook page, but I don't really know you. I mean, to this moment, I don't really know you, but I didn't really speak to you until you reached out directly. Because your son was going oh, why don't you tell people what did he What did he want to do and what were your concerns?

Ali 18:44
Well, he was going for his year in Israel, which pretty much everybody else? Well, I I'll say that and then I'll back up I guess. He was going for his year in Israel, which pretty much 90% of the kids in his school did are going to and it's a yeshiva year, which is like a religious stuff, but it's also traveling and it's hiking. And it's, you know, just learning to be a grown up and having a great time as friends and it's a great year. And my older two girls did it and he's not, he's not staying home. There's no way that you know, this is keeping him home. So I was a little worried because the last time you went to Israel, which was only for a month, he came back with a 9.7 and he had kidney stars and he was a disaster on his own. Okay, so that was a year after diagnosis almost a year.

Scott Benner 19:50
So a year after diagnosis. He went for a month. Right then he came back and it's a once he had gone up significantly while he was there. Alright, so now you're now you're getting back, I assume things get back to the way they were when he was with you. But now you're looking at him being gone for a year. Right? Okay. Okay.

Ali 20:13
So I'm Alou. You. So I'm trying to stack the odds. So there's two other type ones in his particular school. There's more in the neighborhood and in different schools, but his school has three this year. I don't know who's older, but this particular history, so he's living with one of them in the room. And then the third guy in the room is this very good friend of his, that's an EMT. And the Israel tour that he did for the year for the summer was the EMT tour, which you get to be an you get a certificate as an EMR. And it was a great, great experience for him. He actually saved a life and they, they make a very, very big deal about it, they gain a medal from the State of Israel, that he saved a life and, you know, they, they have this big celebration, and he's called up to this big celebration. So it was like a really good experience for him. And I also was like stacking the odds picking that tour, because the other toy he wanted was surfing. So I was like, let's do the one with the medical profession. You

Scott Benner 21:35
know, I, I just had this whole image in my head, that they get the kids over there, and then they stage a medical emergency and let them pretend that they saved a life so they feel good.

Ali 21:48
I think I know, there's a lot of Jewish lawyers in Israel, but it's just not as litigious society, because they're letting 16 year old do all sorts of stuff. You hear

Scott Benner 22:07
I'm dying, what I need as a 16 year old boy, he's just left his mother for the first time to help. Not exactly. That Exactly. Comfort. When you

Ali 22:18
know, I mean, what do they told him pushing her and he pushed here, you know, like they had the machine on telling you

Scott Benner 22:25
the whole time. They were actors. No, no, I'm kidding. When so when you reach out to me, what is your like, what were you looking for that day? Because I remember speaking to your son on the phone and thinking he was not thrilled to be on the phone.

Ali 22:41
Oh, yeah. I'm sure right. Yes. So

he, I mean, his agencies are fine like this. Here's like 6.6 and it was 5.9 is 5.8 6.16. In Israel. He was six this last time, November, which is his own. I would say that's his own a onesie. But his variability is horrible. He is not a straight line guy. He's a don't Pre-Bolus enough and go away in the sky. And then just keep hitting it until it comes down finally, and get his up louder down and then catch it and then, you know, eat again, five minutes later and yeah, like it's he he's variability in his like, waves

Scott Benner 23:30
are bad. So so he's not, he's not really. He's not managing. He's, like, just stopping bad things from happening. But more important that's happening pretty constantly. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Ali 23:45
He, yeah. If if the Dexcom like runs out of numbers and gives you words that that. Okay.

Scott Benner 23:55
So he shows us that. Yeah. No, runs out of numbers. But what so you're he's jumping up to 400 at times? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Ali 24:05
He's up. He's down. He's all over the place.

Scott Benner 24:07
And you have no, now I know, that's not what you want. So, but you're having trouble impressing that upon him?

Ali 24:15
Yes. So I am a podcast listener and I listened to all of your podcasts, which I really enjoy as everyone should. Everyone should. But he's not. So it's going through the filter of me and I'll tell him like, you know, bumping, no, I really hit it a little bit, hit it a little bit hit Did you know, or this one, you should you know, hit it harder. Or remember, I can't tell you, if you looked at the text chats. I can't tell you how many times I've written the word Pre-Bolus in the tech chats, like, Will and he'll say he's doing it, you know, but then we'll have meeting with the, you know, with the endo or the CD or whatever. And then Okay, so your practice seems to be rising a lot. You know? What are you? You know, what are you doing? Are you people listening? And he's like, oh, yeah, totally. Just like, okay, good. So what do you eat it? He's like, eating three bowls of cereal in a 10 minute Pre-Bolus. And that's what he thinks is a Pre-Bolus.

Scott Benner 25:28
When it doesn't, when it doesn't work, and it goes, I mean, he knows. He knows it's wrong. Like, I mean, going forward, I'm assuming he doesn't feel well. Is there? No, there's no, no indication from him that he's like, Oh, I maybe we shouldn't do this. Like he just doesn't, I don't want to say doesn't care, but he doesn't care.

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Ali 28:21
I would say he's trying. But he's really not that good at bolusing. Like his Basil is if he doesn't eat and he's in bed all day. He's got a beautiful line. It's nice and straight settings. Yeah, I don't know if there's a maybe as cover ratio is bad. But he's mostly just winging it. So sometimes the other day he's taunting me. And he says, a four pieces of pizza. Did you see it? And I didn't. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, he figured out pizza. But yeah. Last night, he that all the boys do these like little side gigs to get spending money. So his side gig he decided is going to be making general child's chicken. So he doesn't cook. Split sides get to know learn and he and his friend. He's got a recipe he's going to like okay, so fried chicken with cornstarch and flour, bathed in sugar sauce. That's gonna be like, can you be the protein shake guy?

Scott Benner 29:39
That's gonna be him.

Ali 29:42
No, like, No, it was really good. Like, yeah, I'm sure.

Scott Benner 29:46
So prior to prior to him leaving for this year, was this happening still like were you involved? And you were you were making Pre-Bolus this happen or was it same situation just he was in the same country.

Ali 30:01
Um, I'm gonna say his desk a onesie was those six weeks, I was home for COVID. And he was in his room. And I would just like go in there and do it. But I can't like honestly say I'm better at it than him, because he's doing it all day. So, so you've never been, but you have to get it right. And sometimes he doesn't.

Scott Benner 30:23
Yeah, but you've never been the main person taking care of it?

Ali 30:28
No, no. Anytime he eats, he's the one that puts it in.

Scott Benner 30:32
Alright, so you wouldn't say that you're any? Are you any better? Like you don't even know, I guess if you're better at it than he is.

Ali 30:42
I know that I'm not gonna ignore it and just hang out.

Scott Benner 30:47
But about the timing and the Pre-Bolus thing and things like that, like you?

Ali 30:51
I don't know, I don't know. card numbers of things. I would look it up. But I certainly know. All of the rules. He knows. Also, he knows about that routine. He knows about how long, you know, something's gonna take to hit him.

Scott Benner 31:09
Right. But I don't think we're talking about understanding. And I think we're talking about the will to do it. Yeah, right. That's yeah.

Ali 31:16
So if he was, so how do I give him the

Scott Benner 31:17
will? No, no, no, I'm asking. I'm asking first. Do you have it? Like if we magically made him six years old? And you were just in charge? Is that like, who you like? I'm trying to find out if you and hear the same person, like so like, Oh, you don't? I mean, like, are you? If you were in charge, do you think you'd be like, Oh, I forget the Pre-Bolus. And we end up chasing it around all the time. Like, do you think you'd be him? Oh, oh,

Ali 31:46
I need for my own health. I, I personally eat a very low carb diet. Okay. And that's, it's mostly for weight. But hey, I was expecting this question. And you didn't get a chance to answer this question. How do you know? So I don't really talk, a good step on the

Scott Benner 32:10
alley. Every Jewish mom is gonna listen straight through it, everyone else is probably turning it off. But you go ahead, you keep going. You're fine.

Ali 32:19
But if they want to hear Scott,

Scott Benner 32:21
no, no. But do you see what I'm saying? Like, at what you've described, is basically about three years, where you you haven't been, anytime the primary caregiver on the insulin, and he's chasing it around, and you want him to be better at it. But like, you don't know what to do about it. And I don't and I'm trying to ask the question, if you were in charge of it, would you be better at it?

Ali 32:51
So I don't have the data of my body. But you know, the other day, I see like, a double arrow down, right? And he's like, you know, 60, double down. So I'm texting him and texting him and texting him. And then he gets to the ello w. And then and then I found out later when I told him, they had a push up contest. Okay, then it was like, well, we'll why you know, you know what to do? What are you supposed to do when you exercise? Turn it down, turn it off, turn it down an hour before you know have something to eat before he's like, sick. That's not how it works. Like I can't, you know, go with the guys and be like, well, story. Can we have the Push Up contest in an hour? I need to turn down my Basal. Like, he's not doing that. Yeah, but

Scott Benner 33:39
what about, what about that situation where he's like, Oh, geez, we're about to do this. I'm gonna I'll take in a bunch of carbs. Now to avoid the low instead of experiencing the low and then taking in the carbs, because he's gonna He's gonna end up doing the same functional thing, right? It's just one situation, he would avoid a problem. And the other situation he's steeped in it. But but so seriously, though, hold on. You have not answered my question yet. If he was six years old, I

Ali 34:04
better than him.

Scott Benner 34:06
No, no, no. If he was six years old, do you have the personality? Like, let me give you a different example? Two days ago?

Ali 34:14
Yeah, I think I could do it with all of the information that I've taken in. I think I could do that. So because I would like weigh the food and look, type it in and figure it out. And, you know, extent he extends boluses he just doesn't

Scott Benner 34:30
always do it. Right. But would you Pre-Bolus Because Pre-Bolus things as you would like, for instance, the other day, Arden's like they kept them home from school again. So she's the middle of the day, she's done school already. She's hanging out where Kelly works, and they get lunch together. And then they got a dessert to go with lunch, but they weren't going to eat it right away. And a couple hours after lunch, I was walking through the kitchen and arms like hey, I'm gonna have that that dessert. Now I was like, Oh, well, you know, go ahead and Bolus for it. And she, she, she Bolus and I was near it. So I kind of put it on a plate and I brought it to her. And I set it down. And she reached out for it with these big excited eyes. And I went No. Right? She's like, What am I, you've got to prove you gotta let this Bolus work first. I was like, just don't look at it, do whatever you're gonna do. But we're not eating this for at least 10 minutes. And like, do you would you like, I don't know what the I can't figure out what your relationship?

Ali 35:37
Can I force a six year old to do it? I can't force a six year old to do it. Okay. Would you be able to? I don't know if I can force a 19 year old to do it.

Scott Benner 35:43
Right? By No, no, I hear what you're saying. I could just bug him.

Ali 35:47
I could just like Bugan Bugan, Bugan Bugan. And so he you know, whatever.

Scott Benner 35:52
Still doesn't listen to me. I'm not sure how this is gonna sound like so. I don't think like when I do it, I don't believe that I'm badgering her or bugging her. I don't believe that. I'm, I think I'm reminding her. And then I have the, the wherewithal or the strength to stand in front of her while she ignores me and tell her not to ignore me. Like, I don't just like, you know that thing. We're parents, like, don't do that. And cause like, go to hell. And they're like, all right, and then it just happens anyway. Like, I'm not, I'm not uncomfortable in the uncomfortable part. Like, I can stand there and be like, listen, we have to wait 10 minutes, you just you just really can't eat this. But I don't know that a lot of people are comfortable with that. I guess I'm asking if you are.

Ali 36:41
I, I'm comfortable with it. But my work on him. Like I'm not with him. And I'm not on him.

Scott Benner 36:47
So So why like, that's so that's my real take

Ali 36:51
on texting and texting and like, Do it, do it? You know?

Scott Benner 36:56
What I'm saying the deal? How do I the difference between like bugging him and actually making it happen? Like, he's 19? Like, you know, you have recourse? Like, here's one, you can't go to Israel, if you don't Pre-Bolus Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm wondering, like, where I'm wondering where that is? Or if it's just not your relationship? Like, I don't know, I'm not judging it. I'm just trying to figure it out. So but I'm not sure. I'm not sure if you know, even like sometimes things just grow the way they grow. You know, like, would he not? Like, is there no world where you'd say to him? Listen, man, this is a significant issue for your health. And I don't care that you're able to see comes back in the sixes, you know, your blood sugar has been three and 400 over and over again. And you're catching dangerous lows. Like at some point, this isn't going to be okay. This can't be your path forward. Big because I mean, you know, I don't know, it feels like we all know where we're at. And we're kind of pretending like we're not there. Does that make sense? I bumped out, I bummed you out? I didn't mean it bummed me out. I'm

Ali 38:01
sorry. No, no, no. We're so another thing we're like trying to do is sort of the get to the right answer the wrong way. And like he, he, so in that in that breakfast scenario. For the 45 minutes before breakfast, he's in the services. So he's like, I'm not, I don't want to take out my phone and do something. And so I'm like, just put in a couple units. Like, how hard is that? It's like, No, I can't do it. You know, it's in the middle of services. I'm not going to do that. So we put it in the basil. So I put two units in the basil that just goes in automatically a half an hour before his breakfast and dinner times. And at lunch, he has a longer lunch. So he can you know, he can do that. But you know, he's got like a flat 1.2. And then at nine o'clock, he's, you know, that our, his Basal is fine. And then it's 1.2 again, so

Scott Benner 39:06
and that's it. You compensating for not Pre-Bolus thing, right? Yes,

Ali 39:10
yeah. And he's a little bit like, Okay, I don't know what I'm gonna eat. So I need to, like, I need to see it, right. And then I had a half an hour, you know, they don't give you that much time, who you know, breakfast is a half an hour, and then you go to class, right? So,

Scott Benner 39:26
like, I'm not on, listen. There's plenty. Yeah, there's plenty of times your arms like I'm hungry, but I don't know what I want. And then she'll do that thing where she's like, Well, I'm not going to eat because I can't figure out what I want to eat. And, you know, it happened like last night, like late last night. She's like, I'm hungry. I was like, alright, eat something. And she's like, I don't know what I want. And I'm like, Well, what about this and you start playing that game? And then they're like, no, no, no. And then you get to there's, there's nothing in the house. I'm like, sure. I spent $600 at the grocery store. There's nothing in the house. You know, so It's it's us and I'm not unaware of the fight. I'm just saying he's in a unique situation. Where because of his, his traveling, he's got the real ability to ignore you if he wants to.

Unknown Speaker 40:13
Yeah. Jay Yeah. She kind of,

Ali 40:20
but Well, I mean, I don't know, like he wants to, he wanted to stay for army. And he's gonna stay for Army because he's not controlled. Right. So, you know, they're, they're doing a ton of hiking and jumping around and all kinds of stuff. And the food is whatever the food is, you don't have a kitchen that you can start grilling chicken. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know if he's gonna do that. I mean, we'll see. But we got to figure it out.

Scott Benner 40:53
Yeah, that was one of the things that you had mentioned to me back then was that he wanted to you wanted to do a year in the service in Israel, right?

Ali 41:00
Yeah, yeah. And my, my niece is doing it now. Like, it's a really, like, it's a great thing for them. They really, you know, they, they get strong, they feel powerful. And it's a it's 1,000,019 year olds running around together. And she wanted to do I think, like a social work one, and he wanted to do he wanted to be in a hospital, like a field hospital or something like that. Be getting medical training. But yeah, they they do some cool things. But then he could also be the guy given our boots, you know, if he's, if he's not controlled, and they see that he's not up for it, they're not going to give him good job. So do you think you know, not that the guy giving up boots is not an important job, but

Scott Benner 41:53
he might not be doing? What do you want? What he's, that's not his goal. Yeah. And does he see those things as connected? Do you believe, like getting to his goal? And I don't know. Yeah.

Ali 42:05
I don't know if she said she's connected. I little bitty, like day to day. You know, I don't feel good. Well, hey, I could tell you why you don't feel good.

Scott Benner 42:16
When you put me on the phone with him. i He. My interpretation was he resented it happening? I thought he did. I thought he wasn't happy about it. But I wasn't on that end. What did you think on your end? I think he thinks he knows everything. Okay.

Ali 42:34
He doesn't need he doesn't need advice, because he already knows. And he's handling it just fine.

Scott Benner 42:42
Gotcha. Yeah, no, I mean, look, that is the basic vibe that comes off of every young adult that I've ever spoken to who's kind of lived past this part and then looks back on it. They'll say, Oh, I thought I knew everything. My blood sugar's were all over the place. I was fine. I didn't care. Somebody tried to help me, I ignored them. But then the last thing they always say is, I wish someone would have just pushed me harder. But they say that they say it in retrospect. So I honestly can't say what would happen in the moment, if that's what happened. I just know that in retrospect, every older 20 year old looks back on themselves at the time we're talking about with your son and says, I wish my doctor or my mother would have tried harder, you know, or sets. But I think what they mean is, I wish they could have gotten through to me. But I don't I don't know if you know the same mind you make that statement with when you're 25 is the same mind you have when you want to go, you know, to Israel for a year when you're 19. It's a weird situation to be in. I mean, have you ever tried? I'm just wondering now as we're talking like, because it's such a big part of your life. Have you ever tried explaining this to a rabbi and having the rabbi talk to them?

Ali 44:01
Hmm, that's interesting. So the rabbis in the program, I'm one of them did talk to him. Just about, you know, and he doesn't know specifics, but he knows if you're missing class, because you're sick. And you know how to take care of yourself. You know, do it. Right. That you have to take better care of yourself. I think that the loop is definitely going to be a game changer for him. Well, but he could still Bolus bad.

Scott Benner 44:41
Yeah, the algorithms aren't. The algorithms are not going to get in front of you not Pre-Bolus thing. They just they can't and not at this moment, like can they one day in the future like baby but for now? It's still it's still not gonna work that way. Like he's got a Pre-Bolus

Ali 44:59
Yeah, And how long do you say a Pre-Bolus is or it's just different for every food,

Scott Benner 45:08
you know, it's different, it's different depending on the food you're eating, how quickly your insulin works, and what your blood sugar is to begin with, right? Like, you know, when you're at five, your Pre-Bolus is different than if you're 120. And is different than if you're 150. And to be honest, if you're 150, you're not really Pre-Bolus. And you're correcting and bolusing at the same time, you know, so, I don't know if there's a if there's a time to it, there's a, I would say this, if he's doing none at all, you know, even just getting him to commit to 15 minutes would be a big deal. And then, you

Ali 45:44
know, he thinks a Pre-Bolus is 15 minutes. But this because that's what he will do. Well, it's not worth it. Sometimes he'll split wrong. Like he'll give a 5050 split. But he really needs almost all of it upfront. You know?

Scott Benner 46:03
Yeah, maybe the nuances, well, maybe that tool is too advanced for him. Maybe he shouldn't be splitting, splitting his boluses unless he really gets it because maybe he's applying extended Bolus is where they don't belong. I mean, that's possible. I don't know, I haven't seen the data, or anything like that. But those, that's one of the things that I see people do, sometimes they get excited, they're like, Oh, I found out about extended boluses, then they try to use it everywhere. And you know, it's they're not appropriate everywhere. So and then. So now you think you're putting in seven units, but you're really putting in, you know, three and a half, and your blood sugar's shooting up while this other three and a half is trickling in, and really not doing much good except holding you under 300. You know, that could be it. Maybe he's outsmarted himself, you know, in some situations, because but being 400 and needing to correct afterwards. I mean, that would seem to me to that it's just not enough insulin for the meal. Maybe either the ratios off or he's eating something that's wildly more glycemic Lee heavy than than his ratio is prepared for that would be my guess. But I don't know how you explain that to him. If he feels like he knows everything. You don't I mean, it's a tough situation, I feel for you, I feel what everybody

Ali 47:22
takes advice, he takes advice. And, you know, a lot of times, they'll just be like, just even it out. Like, just give a little bit, give a little bit and he'll be like, by the power of Grayskull. And he'll like whack the damn thing down. And, and then he'd be like, no, too much. Write and then you know, and then it's low. And you'd be like, like, Okay, this is, you know, you're you're at it, you're, you're it's 60 you need you need 20 points, like 20 points is not that much, you know, and then he'll be like, Okay, I'm just gonna eat, you know, a granola bar, spoon, peanut butter and a little bit juice in there. Like, you're like, you just ate like, 50 carbs? Like, that's not good.

Scott Benner 48:13
Do you have hope that

Ali 48:15
too much? Like the

Unknown Speaker 48:18
person who takes these smart

Ali 48:19
kid and he takes the time to think about it. And sometimes he does, you know, if you take the time to think about it, then he will definitely get it. The Caring is, is hard to give him. Um, but I mean, obviously, the goal is I, you know, I paid him to listen to your protests. I paid for protests. I gave him like 20 bucks and a full day of mom not bugging you. Was what you got paid for protests. And it wasn't a great deal. That's a really good deal.

Scott Benner 48:57
I take it, did it work? Do you think? Or do you think you just gave

Ali 49:01
out 10 of them? He started with exercise. And he did all of the shorter ones, regardless of the topic. So I'm gonna say if you're redoing pro tips, put out some little ones diagnose the defining diabetes are all really short. Right? And and the variables are all really sure. Yeah. So maybe I'll try to get them on those. Be like forget the pro tips. Just do that again. Very

Scott Benner 49:37
well. Maybe it was too much for them all at once. You know, like and that's actually true to like, you know, I don't think you should dive into the pro tips at exercise. If you don't understand the rest of it. You know what I mean? Like the basics. It's just like anything else, like you got to lay down a foundation of basic concepts and then you can build into these you know, more intricate ideas I guess it's just I don't know. Listen, it's it's really tough. It makes it. It makes me I don't know. I'm pretty happy. I have a daughter, not a son that

Unknown Speaker 50:13
I got three daughters. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:16
They listened vine, right.

Ali 50:17
They love him. They cooked dinner for me. They all guys and stuff.

Yeah, he's good. I hope he is able, like what I'm worried about is that he won't be able to do the things in life that he wants to do. Yeah, no. Too busy ignoring the things he has to do.

Scott Benner 50:41
won't get through if he wants to visa. Yeah, I mean, to me, it's like, he's

Ali 50:46
just like, Okay, I don't you know? Yeah, yeah, diabetes, whatever. But he's not gonna be able to do what he wants to do. Right? If he doesn't?

Scott Benner 50:56
Does he not believe that? He doesn't believe. I don't know. What's tough. Does your husband get involved in this?

Ali 51:06
My husband is like, awesome. He wants to like all the educators things and stuff. But he's not like the day to day, I'm gonna text you if your blood sugar is 180 I'm gonna text you, guy. Like, he's got a job. And he's more big picture.

Scott Benner 51:25
He's doing his thing. You do your thing. Yeah, he'll

Ali 51:27
talk to him. He'll be like, dude, like, What the heck are you doing? Like, just take care of yourself. I'm not gonna tell you how to just do it. And I'll be like, you know, put in 3.2 right now, you know, that's, that's more of my vibe, or I'll, I'll send him when he was on, Basil Glar. Like in the very beginning. He's on basketball. And he's supposed to take 10 units at 10 o'clock. So they like did it so he'd remember. Right? Right. And then he doesn't, you know, then he falls asleep on the couch, or he just forgets or whatever. So his alarms on and I my lines on? And, you know, the first couple of times, I'm like, go downstairs, go find him go. Yeah, you know. And then, you know, we'd be like, Hey, get off the TV, you gotta give a shot. And then I was like, Okay, we gotta like, get creative on this. So I started downloading, like, hundreds of pictures of Basler discs, and mythical creatures. and I were like texting one of those at 10 o'clock every night be like, I'm, like, just a little bit of a different vibe. That is like, that's not because I'm bugging you. It's just, I'm a weird person sending you weird pictures of basketball discs, obviously, like it kinda reminds it like, I'll very often I'll like wake up in the morning and his blood sugar's stinks. And I'll be like, you know, I'll take somebody like, Hey, good morning, how's your day? You know? And it'll be like, Oh, is it takes for mom, I guess I better look at my blood sugar. So he knows he'll fix it. Well, that makes him fix it.

Scott Benner 53:04
Okay. So just being told, like, directly. Yeah, I kind of helps.

Ali 53:13
I, I think so he might feel like I'm still bugging him. But I remember one time you were talking about, you know, if you're, like, just parenting in general is like, you can't always lead with diabetes. Because then they think that that's like, the only thing that you care about. So I try very often lead with diabetes. But I tried to be like, Oh, how's your classes? How's this? How's the Trump has a you know, to just talk to him about other things? Um, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I want to ask you about like, Basal versus Bolus ratios. Because his Endo, she wanted to increase his climb rate. She wanted to increase his basil, because his percentage was like 20%. And she wanted it higher, because basil percentage. So she's, she's got some rule. That makes sense. She's like, his Basal should be higher. So then he raises basil. And then he was like, always going, Whoa, and it didn't work. But his highs after eating were not as high. But he was always, you know, if he wasn't eating then he was always fixing Lowe's. So it was sort of just like, at putting a blanket on top of it. But he still had to, like, I don't I don't think it was the right basil. Yeah, because supposedly the basil is supposed to keep you know, keep you flat if you're not eating. So it didn't, it didn't really do that.

Scott Benner 54:55
Okay. So all right.

Ali 54:58
It sort of how helps it sort of helped in its own way.

Scott Benner 55:02
Okay, you know what I mean? Give it to me one more time. Just real bare bones. What happened one more time.

Ali 55:07
Okay, so he's up and down, up and down. Yeah. And a lot of times when you see an up and down chart, you're like, Okay, more basil. So she just said more basil, witch, and she was going off of this percentage that endocrinologist use that says, your Basal should be 40% of your total daily insulin. And because he has to correct a lot. And because he's eating a ton of carbs, you know, his, his Bolus ratio is too much Bolus. So

Scott Benner 55:46
well, so I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that completely. So up and down, up and down. But it would I would ask, I wouldn't even bother with that. Like, what I would ask first is when he's away from meal, insulin, and he's away from food, by three hours, let's say where does he sit stable? Like is his blood sugar like when it finds stability? Is it stable? 85 versus stable? 160.

Ali 56:17
Okay, so when was the last best day?

Scott Benner 56:24
Even overnight, you see stability overnight.

Ali 56:28
He's up overnight. He's up and eating overnights awake, and running around and doing stuff like there's not a specific time that he's sleeping. I don't think I mean, maybe from three to five. He'll be you know, three to seven or eight. They the schedule is they get up. They started eight. Yeah. And then I'm gonna find it. Any what day was the last day? Can you look up the dates? It's on your phone. Great. About a month ago. I'm just going to look at the at the clarity line. Thank you and see what it was.

Scott Benner 57:11
No, I mean, I'd love to talk about it.

Ali 57:15
Yeah, I mean, it's good to get into the into the grit of it helps people. You want to do falafel while we're waiting? Do I? How would you falafel?

Scott Benner 57:25
How would I eat

Ali 57:26
food? He just started eating it, too. It's a it's a fresh pita. Which is less bulk than two pieces of bread, but it's just flour and water. No preservatives or anything. Right? Was it? December 14. Can you find it and you just scroll up enough? It's chickpeas, fried, like chickpea they made again and that was mush and then they put five falafel balls in and it's fried and then on top is like salad and sometimes there's like a couple of French fries. And then if there's a paste there's like a sauces are chickpea paste and sesame paste. So he ate it. And he had no idea how to booze for it. But you know,

Scott Benner 58:10
the internet says knock it out. falafels about five and a half carbs for a patty. That's approximately two and a quarter inches diameter. Okay, so I don't know like, I mean, what would you do? I would treat it like bread. And I mean the first time I did it, I would just go with this. And I would treat it like bread at first and then I mean it chickpeas,

Ali 58:32
salad, some carbs and some protein and then you're crying.

Scott Benner 58:37
Yeah, you're frying it and then you're saying sometimes there's french fries on it?

Ali 58:43
Yes, you go to a good place there's a couple of

Scott Benner 58:46
good places fries. That's funny. That's

Ali 58:49
only like five because I gotta shove it in that thing.

Scott Benner 58:54
So I mean that's what I would do I would start with just a simple carb count and and then I would see what happens and try it again.

Ali 59:08
So just the pita and then do the coaching later. I'm looking

Scott Benner 59:11
online right now hold on a second. So we got the carbs for the falafel let's try chick peas. Chickpeas have a fair amount of carbs Hold on a second

yeah, there's a fair amount of carbs.

Ali 59:40
So like it's it's hard sometimes. Well, here's the thing as pizza. Okay, what do you got over

Scott Benner 59:45
half a cup of chickpeas is 27 carbs. Okay, so So chickpeas are our 7.8 grams per tablespoon. So if he had if this falafel was legitimately two and a quarter inches around and he had two of them, and it had chickpeas and then we're looking at 510 1118. I mean, and then french fries and fat and everything. I mean that falafel could have been. It could have been 25 or 30 carbs. Really?

Ali 1:00:19
Okay. Would you put 30 carbs up front?

Scott Benner 1:00:23
Yeah, I would. I don't I don't split insulin until something proves to me it needs to be split.

Ali 1:00:30
Oh, yeah, I mostly put everything upfront. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:00:33
don't, I don't split insulin until it tells me until, until experiences telling me otherwise. And even then, with the things that Arden eats, it's more like, it's not even like splitting it as much as it's like a fat and protein rise later. If that's going to happen. It's almost a secondary Bolus.

Ali 1:00:55
Okay, you know, okay, so his flat line, it was December 14, but his flat line at 1.2 Was I could send that your screenshot, but was like hovering around 80, it went a little lower, and a little higher, went a little lower, went a little higher and a little lower. And then at the end, he was low. He said he was walking to get food. So so it hovered around eating. It's a little, a little higher. But that's,

Scott Benner 1:01:27
that's the bigger picture is that in the last 30 days, he's had one time when his blood sugar was stable at 85. Oh, no, no,

Ali 1:01:35
but the next day trying to figure out if it were at a nice, a nice flat day, you know,

Scott Benner 1:01:41
but I'm trying to figure out if the basil works, because the up and down might have nothing to do with the basil.

Ali 1:01:47
Yeah, I That's December 19 was a nice flat day, I could send you 90 days. I mean, I could send you 100 days, but

Scott Benner 1:01:57
you see what I'm saying there?

Ali 1:01:58
It was a nice day, you know, whatever. If he's not eating, he's great at time.

Scott Benner 1:02:05
So if not,

Ali 1:02:06
I almost brought him home for a grilled cheese. Because he was so high. And for so long. And finally, and he you know, he fell asleep. And he didn't answer the phone. And finally, he gets to me. And he's like, Oh, I put in a turkey sandwich. I should have put in a pizza. Because that was keeping him higher, longer. And it's different, that he knows turkey sandwich. He eats turkey sandwiches like 100 times, you know, he he's eaten Turkey on right 100 times. And he basically knows that food, I think he needs to like pay attention to specific foods he eats. And then like learn it. I told him like, if you learn, you know, whatever, come down, you know, whatever chicken you want. If you learn general Tao chicken, and your blood sugar doesn't go up to 300 every time you eat it, then, you know, fine, right? It's not the best food, but I'm not gonna bug you about it.

Scott Benner 1:03:11
I mean, listen from your explanations of what you're seeing. My best bet is that he's not putting in the amount of insulin that the food requires when it's required. And I don't and if you know, fair enough, he's 19. And you know, so when but you know, so there's going to be off eating and things like that, and weird sleeping patterns. But if when he is, you know, fasting, his basil works that well, I wouldn't be looking at the basil for these other problems, then. I'd be thinking about

Ali 1:03:48
a week later. He with the new like, higher basil. So it was the week that they take him to Poland. So it's it's a very, very hard week. It's like a lot of a lot of stress and a lot of walking. Was he he was low a lot. Yeah, it doesn't mean I right. It doesn't mean it's wrong, because he's walking.

Scott Benner 1:04:11
Well, no, but it doesn't make just based on what you told me. If you told me he was spiking at meals, and when he was fasting, his blood sugar was 85 What do I do? There's no way I would have said to turn off the basil. I would have said that the meals are your issue. Right? You know, and that doesn't mean it doesn't necessarily mean ratio. It could be his interpretation of how much each meal needs so he's maybe he's

Ali 1:04:43
know that he's actually using a ratio

Scott Benner 1:04:47
wagon but I mean, he has one of the settings his settings have Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, one unit or how many units per how many carbs like that's his ratio. That's what I mean by that. I mean, he's not he's not coming close to getting The carbs right on staff is what it sounds like. Yeah. I mean, that's my, if you made me just after this conversation tell you what I think is wrong. I don't think he's anywhere near getting his carbs, correct. That's what that's it because he's doing a 15 minute Pre-Bolus. Fair enough. You know, with a 15 minute Pre-Bolus If you've got the right amount of insulin, you should not be seen seeing three and 400. So it sounds like he's significantly under estimating how many carbs are in what he's eating? Right. You know, that's, and

Ali 1:05:27
he's not, I don't want to put it like too badly. He doesn't, you know, sometimes you do it right. I

Scott Benner 1:05:32
understand. Yeah.

Ali 1:05:35
You know, he's okay. Yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 1:05:38
not saying that either. I'm saying that in the situations when it happens. This is what I think is happening. That's my best guess.

Ali 1:05:46
And just don't split the dose. Try to put it in earlier.

Scott Benner 1:05:51
I mean, when you're eating things that are, you know, 4050 6070 carbs. I mean, I don't mess around with splitting the dose I gave Arden. So yesterday, I said, Yes. Jonah, what the hell was she had, she put her pod somewhere where I was like, Don't put it there. It's not going to work well there. And she's like, You didn't tell her what to do in my body. And I was like, Okay, put it there. And Nike 24 hours later, I was like, Hey, your blood sugar is sitting at 120. And it's hard to get down. She is that's an okay, blood sugar as a it's 45 points higher than I think it should be. And B, I don't care about the blood sugar as much as I'm telling you that the site is not acting the way it should. I was like, we've tried to correct this 120 A couple of times, it's taking too long for it to come down. And it's finding its way back up. Again. This is the site. And then she goes and has some concoction of like rice and chicken and beans and all this stuff for lunch. And I said you should change this pod before you eat this food. This pot is only like two days old and it's fine. And there's plenty of insulin left in it. And then six hours later, when I couldn't get her blood sugar under 180. I was like, are you ready to change the pod? No, I don't want to change the pod. I was like we're changing the pod, we changed the pod. And two hours later, I had her blood sugar back down at 90 again. And I said to her, all I said was you got to stop putting the pot in that spot right now. Like that spot needs a break. And, you know, so I let her live through listen, I let her live through the entire thing that I knew was going to happen, just so that nine hours later, I could say please stop using that spot on your stomach, just turn it put it in a different place, whatever. Yeah, and hopefully shows, you know, but I don't think that's the end of it. I think now I have to follow up. Like the next time she changes a pump. I'll say again, hey, listen, you know, let's remember this spot here, we're gonna give this spot a break for like four months, like don't put anything here for a while. Like that kind of thing. Like it needs a break. And she's like, it's just one of our favorite places. So, you know,

Ali 1:08:03
he has a lot of arms and legs for the pod. And I don't know, maybe it's the spot.

Scott Benner 1:08:11
Now Arden likes her legs. They don't work as well as some other places. But they're not bad. She has to be kind of cajoled to do her arms. And then she'll do it. But she won't choose it on our own. On our own, she'll pick the her thighs or her stomach. Yeah, but Amy was just that that entire thing. I don't know, like, it's not the last time I'm gonna have to say it to her. And hopefully one day, it'll just sink all the way in. And she'll just give up I do think there in that part of it's a very, you know, very reasonable part of adolescence and growing up where you're trying to push back against the authority and against your parents specifically, it's just, you know, because our kids have diabetes, they get to do that instead of like, you know, I'm going to the movies or I'm going to talk to this girl, I'm not telling you or whatever, it's, you know, I'll put my pump wherever I want to so kind of sucks. Yeah, you know, I would just tell him to spend right

Ali 1:09:11
so eventually she's gonna have to figure like, like, tell herself because she's gonna be in France, painting or whatever doing design.

Scott Benner 1:09:22
Might be Manhattan.

Ali 1:09:23
She's She you're not going to know where it is. Like, she's gonna be like, Hey, did you use that stomach thing again? That's yeah, that's the wrongs that like, you know, she's gonna she's gonna have to do it. And I don't we're not there. I'm sure Arden is way way way better than my kid because she's been straight for so long. I don't know she's got a good blood sugar for a long time,

Scott Benner 1:09:47
but I don't know that she's that much better. She's, you know, a little younger than your son but they have the same. I mean, kids that age all have the same vibe. Like to some degree, you know, and it's that, you know, guess She's working on something as a part of her portfolio for college submission. And I was upstairs working, and I came down like 45 minutes later to get something to drink. And I looked at her blood sugar and I was like, am I the only one that sees the lecture? You know, like, is it just me? I didn't hear it. I pick up her phone. I'm like, your phone's muted. That's why you didn't hear it. Yeah, you turned off the muting. That's why, you know, like, she knows fine. You know,

Ali 1:10:29
we, we made it, we made a little bit of a deal that his alarms are really narrower. And then mine are wider. But it doesn't really work because I checked my phone all the time. But he, you know, in order to have mommy not bugging me all the time and be able to do it myself. His alarms are, I think they're like maybe 7120 or something like that. 130. And my alarms are, you know, my alarms don't go off until it's too late. But but I'm still bugging him. Because I remember one time I was listening to that the NASA engineer, just like, oh, I have action point. It's 117, you know, and he's already 130. And I'm like, texting him. And then finally, like, 45 minutes later, he's like, I was in pre, I was in calculus class, like, leave me alone. I'm 130.

Scott Benner 1:11:27
No, I see that too. Wow. All right. Listen, if you if you pass one thing on to him, okay, I would,

Ali 1:11:35
I'm gonna tell him whatever you say that. I don't. I don't care. If you listen, I think you should

Scott Benner 1:11:39
put I think they should put more effort into making sure that he understands how many carbs are in what he's eating, excuse me eating. And I don't think he should be splitting boluses unless he knows it's a meal that he really understand that the the split balls is going to work for. Those are my two takeaways from this. Okay, all right, more. Yeah. Well, no more carbs. Make sure he knows how many carbs. And don't, don't split boluses for things. Like if he knows it works for pizza, then great. But if he's splitting a Bolus, because he just thinks he should be splitting a Bolus and he's getting high, I would stop splitting that Bolus and see what happens. Okay, those are my those right? Those are literally my management.

Ali 1:12:26
I know we've been going for a while but do you want to do dentistry?

Scott Benner 1:12:29
do dentistry? Oh my god? Well, it's so interesting. You already had one actually just interviewed a dentists last week. Oh my gosh, really? Yeah. But, but that's your professional, correct? Yes. Well, give me give me your high level look at what people type one should be doing in regards to

Ali 1:12:51
all right, I'll tell you stuff that they don't necessarily tell you. I mean, my practice is a kids practice. And I'm like, if the number of rotten teeth in your mouth exceeds your age, that's me. So like, I get like two year olds with you know, they got six teeth. They're all right. Yeah, I get like, they and I gotta you know, I gotta deal with so a lot of people don't know about like, I never had issues with the iron the liquid iron vitamin. That's only before you have to once you have teeth you don't want because it stains them to get stuck. And then um so you know specifically for back for diabetes like it's a gummy bears gonna stay there forever. Right? And juice. If you'd have juice in them water then you're good. And then I would just say you know from from your people that you know, follow you all the time. Just try not to feed the insulin. If you're trying, you know, if you're always juicing, then you got to you know, figure that out. But as far as what happens in diabetes, oh, so prevention, you can do a fluoride toothpaste that's like higher fluoride. And you can use a fluoride rinse and I always say like an electric toothbrush. But you can ask for a fluoride mints. Ketones are acid. Like they they produce acid in your mouth, which is why you get all those sores. So people get like when they're first diagnosed, you get sores and it trashes your gums. But that's not specifically for kids as much. It's more like you get mouth sores. And he some people feel it in there. Like people have said on the podcast before that they feel it like a tingling, if they have ketones. That's you know, that's in the gums. And that's where like when you have acid produced being produced, that's when you use a base like The, like the, you know, there's specific toothpaste does that have a bass in it? That's a,

Scott Benner 1:15:09
you know, soda or something that yeah,

Ali 1:15:11
like a baking soda toothpaste, that's when you would use that if you're high all the time and you're and you produce ketones more, then you would use a baking soda and your toothpaste. And then if you're lower more, and you're always juicing, then you need fluoride, you know, I mean, everybody needs fluoride, but, and then I would say like gum disease, they have, like your little tiny blood vessels everywhere, your little tiny blood vessels in your feet get messed up and your little tiny blood vessels and your fingers get enough. So the little tiny blood vessels in your gums get, they get messed up. So that's when they like start bleeding. So as far as gum care, there's like, there's a perio rinse that you can use. It's like paradox, it's called. Yeah. And then like for kids with braces, like the water pack, and you can do a special scaling and a cleaning. And then doxycycline is a low dose antibiotic that they give people if they're, if their gums really bad, okay? But like they don't give it, you know, preventively. Just

Scott Benner 1:16:13
if I just had a deep clean. I found it lovely. Yeah, yeah. That's lovely. Lovely. It was, I was so worried when I got there. Because they were like, we have to numb you for the deep cleaning. I was like, I have to get numbed for this. And then I got there. And she just put this gel on it to numb my gums. And I was like, Oh, you guys should have been more specific. When you said Nami. I said, I thought I was getting injections for this. But it was, I thought it was nice. So basically, like really like, like high level for people. You don't want sugar sitting in your mouth. And you don't want stuff stuck in your teeth. Yes, right. A Raisin

Ali 1:16:50
is going to be worse for you than a big bowl ice cream.

Scott Benner 1:16:55
Right? Because that'll wash out with your saliva at some point, but duration, right. And so but a raisin could get stuck in a crack or crevice and sit there for until you brush again if you're lucky. And then and then that's where rot begins. And so when people use juice overnight, simplest thing is to just swish with water afterwards. Yeah, yeah. That

Ali 1:17:18
just I mean, don't give them Skittles when they're sleeping. I mean, that's that's not exactly high level. But

Scott Benner 1:17:25
so what is that? Or

Ali 1:17:27
just turn it down? If you got a drifter. And you're, you know, whatever. 765 Drifting if you can

Scott Benner 1:17:35
catch it, so maybe don't use it. Yeah, see if you can catch it with basil if it's going so slow enough. So give it but seriously, like the high level, you don't want sugar sitting in your mouth, and you don't want things stuck to your teeth. And it doesn't have to be something sugary stuck to your tooth, like a chewed up piece of a potato chip stuck in a in a crevice. And your tooth is just as bad for you as a raisin. Right? Like things stuck to your teeth is bad.

Ali 1:18:00
Yes, thanks that cue sheets is bad, but potato chips will go out eventually. Okay.

So bacteria is sugar.

Right? And it produces acid. So and the acid is what dissolves your teeth. So you take a baby tooth, you throw it into Canna Coke, it's gone. And like, a couple of days, it's gone. So it's, but there's no bacteria. So sometimes, if people had acid and not bacteria, you'll see like a white film on the teeth. That's like the teeth turn, like really choppy. And that's like acid without bacteria and that you could definitely see with ketones if you're you know, if you get ketones or if you have acid reflux or if you drink a lot of lemonade or whatever that you know that kind of stuff. And the the bacteria is it's interesting because the kids are kids are not born with bacteria in their mouth. They usually get it you know, from Mommy Kissing. Don't kiss your babies. Now they say that's where he got it from. So there are people that don't just don't get a lot of cavities because they don't have those bacteria.

Scott Benner 1:19:20
So you're saying I have if I ever had a cavities because I guess my wife

Ali 1:19:26
somebody? I don't know, maybe maybe he ate some dirty lettuce. I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:19:33
You just sit in a hermetically sealed room after birth, we'd be fine.

Ali 1:19:40
And then the other thing I would say for the appointment I would ask for an early morning appointment. Because a lot of things in dentistry, you're either not supposed to eat beforehand, or you're not going to eat afterwards. And you know, you don't want to You can always drink juice, they'll always let you drink juice. But, um, you know, but as far as you know, if you're not, don't, you know, don't go to the dentist, like after breakfast having a big meal kind of thing. Because you, you might just, you know, just say,

Scott Benner 1:20:16
I don't want that in your in their throat, right? Like it's yeah, I didn't impression you might see it later, I had an impression on what's the guy's like, are you going to be okay? And I was like, why would I not be okay? Because you'd be surprised like a little bit of this impression material hits people in the back of their throat and they just they can't handle it. I was like, Yeah, all right, you know? So yeah, I got what he was saying.

Ali 1:20:40
Yeah, I mean, if you if you have a deck, you'll see it. But like pain, if you have pain, you know, your blood sugar is gonna go up, and not eating is gonna make it go down. So it's hard to, it's hard to necessarily predict beforehand. But if you're having like, a lot of stuff done, and it might be painful, then that's something to consider as well. It's hard. Yeah, it's something it's hard to tell up or down because you're also not eating if your Basal is solid. And if you don't eat it's nice and steady. Then maybe you would need more if you're going to be in pain. Or maybe you just see if it happens. And then correct.

Scott Benner 1:21:21
Yeah, yeah, there's some people that say the pain doesn't affect their blood sugar. Some people say it does. It's hard to know if that's what I'm saying. Just be aware of it. And but I take your point earlier in the morning, people's blood sugar's are a little more difficult early in the morning anyway. So if you're trying to avoid a low because you're going to the dentist, then that that makes sense to me. Very nice. Cool. And what? What do you do like you'd like you basically, you work on kids with some real tough problems.

Ali 1:21:49
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we we definitely drugged them. We had laughing gas. Yeah, sedation, you know, if you're, like, you know, like four or five years old, and they need like, six crowns. Or more than that, you know, you need a little help. Wow. But, but basically, after eight years old, they're fine. They're, like, kind of hang they can sit and take it and as long as you don't, you know, hurt him. Then they're

Scott Benner 1:22:22
cool. Little kids get crowns.

Ali 1:22:25
Oh, yeah, man. It's targeted. So I don't know. Some people don't know. It's good to know. You because You have a lot of kiddo. You got a lot of pregnant ladies. Um, some people don't know that. Even, you know, even nursing has sugar in it. And bottles have short, you know, formula has sugar in it. So, they'll give their kid a bottle all night and all day and it's just bathing there. And and when they're asleep. They don't swallow it. So it just, it just soaks sucks and sucks. So they'll Yeah, they'll ride it out. It's not fun. It's not fun. I know. On that note, wasn't that fun?

Unknown Speaker 1:23:09
To come to the dentist.

Scott Benner 1:23:13
Well, I really, I really do appreciate you doing this and, and sharing like, and it's so fun. And I'm glad I know.

Ali 1:23:22
I love love your podcast, and I love the group. Thank you. Because it's great. Everybody's like so, like, helpful and supportive and terrific. And even when they're snarky. I like it. Yeah, somebody the other day was like, my aunt had pancreatitis, and what kind of diabetes does she have? And like, and then like, nobody answers LLN she eats an O and she eats low carb. Like so like 50 people get on there and they're like, she doesn't need to eat low carb. She just needs to take insulin. And then like finally one person's like, she see three this is from the website.

Scott Benner 1:24:03
Yeah, you get enough people together you actually get answers to dammit. I went on

Ali 1:24:09
Google for you. You could have done that

JDRF set for you and I'll do it for you. Okay, and then like, fight like she kind of kind of carb shamed somebody who was like no, you don't have to eat low carb. And it wasn't even the person like somebody who's and had this question and then and then he writes like, fine do whatever you want if you want to eat you know if you want to just eat sadness all day. Like I personally eat keto just because car like I am definitely carb sensitive. I have a I have PCOS, which is like they say that you might get type two. That's what they want. They like it's it's actually too much insulin your produce thing. So if you keep producing too much insulin, then I guess eventually your cells are like too much and then they shut it down and your absorption goes down. So I just, I don't take anything. But I, but I just tried to watch my carbon cake keeps me thinner.

Scott Benner 1:25:23
Listen, I not hard, not hard. I'm 50 you know?

Ali 1:25:28
Yeah, right. But my keto brownies have definitely been shamed many, many times by my children and everyone else who tries to eat them.

Scott Benner 1:25:37
They don't. They don't.

Ali 1:25:39
Except for my African friends. And they're like, these are fantastic. I was like, Yeah, I've tasted them. But I like Oh,

Scott Benner 1:25:47
that's amazing. All right. Well, no, I can't thank you enough. Hold on one second for me. Okay. Okay. A huge thanks to Ali for coming on the show today and sharing her story. And thanks to Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes, for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, learn more and get started today at in pen today.com. I'd also like to thank touched by type one and remind you to go to touched by type one.org or find them on Facebook and Instagram. long episode today. So just let me say this. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#733 Newly Single Mom

Lidset is a newly single diabetes mom.

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coming soon

#732 Free Falling

David has type 1 diabetes and likes jumping out of planes.

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Dave 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 732 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Scott Benner 0:17
On today's show, we'll be speaking with David. He's had type one diabetes for quite some time, and he enjoys jumping out of airplanes. So obviously there's a lot to talk about here. While we're talking, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin.

If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, I wish you would go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Join the registry and take the survey, the whole thing should take fewer than 10 minutes. And once you complete the survey, you've done something kind for people with type one diabetes, you've done a favor to me, and you've done something that might help yourself. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Well worth your 10 minutes.

Dave 1:32
Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod makers of the Omni pod five. Learn more and get started today at Omni pod.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast is also sponsored today. By Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitoring system. Find out if you're eligible for a free 10 day trial@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Hey, Scott, my name is Dave. See I'm 41 this year going to be 42 Very soon in March and I am a skydiver and a diabetic. Right now we're on to it. How do you find? How do you end up being on a podcast? One of my friends whom I skydive with, has a her wife was on your podcast, She's diabetic. And so we got talking about things. She says Oh, my friend has a podcast. You should really check it out. So I found you through her and here I am. No, that's cool. Yeah, we were looking for. I was looking for we Dave, I just said I just said we're like there's a big operation going on over here. It's just me. But um, but yeah, I was just trying to find people who do things. The other a little more exciting. outside the norm a little bit and I think flinging yourself out of an airplane qualifies compete. So well tell me first, you know, how old were you when you were diagnosed? So funny story, I was actually diagnosed at midnight on my 12th birthday. My mother was luckily a pediatrician. So she kind of caught all the signs. And the kicker the final breaking point was that I slammed three two liter bottles of water within five minutes. And she's like, You know what? I think I'm going to take you to the ER right now. So we went down and they checked me in and I got my diagnosis right at midnight on my birthday. When I was 12. Any other stuff going on? Or did the three bottles of water just like send your mom into overdrive? No. Three bottles of water and you know constant urination Of course. And I was skinny guy to begin with so I wasn't putting on weight. You know, right around adolescence. You're supposed to start packing weight on and changing. I was not doing any of that stuff. I was still a skinny, tiny little boy. I think I weighed 50 pounds. Wow. So something was kind of up. So they took me in check me out. And my blood sugar was astronomically high as high as the hospital had ever seen. I think I clocked in around 1200 That's pretty high. Maybe maybe 2200. So I'm like that was ridiculous. Wow. Did they sing happy birthday for you in the ER? Yeah, ironically, they did. See what I did there. Dave, you didn't say it. But I put myself in the minds of adults who were trying to imagine what kids want. And that's what I came up with. I would not have done that. If I worked in the ER for you. By the way I would have. I would have pulled you aside and said Hey, Dave. Well, this sucks, huh? Yeah, pretty much. I did get a lot of that. I did get a lot of oh my gosh, so unexpected meaning is it in the family? No, not at all. So my mother experiences some hypoglycemia every once in a while. But she just attributed that to diet. Nobody else in the family history had diabetes ever. And we went back generations. My my uncle Thankfully keeps all kinds of history on the family and everything. And it was pretty wild that it just popped up. Did you find any autoimmune aside from diabetes? hypothyroidism, celiac, anything like that? No, no. Wow. Dave, about rolling. I'm lucky. I'm pretty lucky. Yeah, look at you, man. Oh, wow, late winner, big winner. That sucks. How was it growing? I mean, you're, I didn't do the math, but you've had diabetes, like 29 years. Is that right? Yeah, for real. Wow. So it was very difficult. The, my life was just calm, pounded is crazy. So the year before I lost my older brother, who was he and I were very, very close to each other. And he passed away unexpectedly. So I was dealing with that. And then we got diabetes, the very next year on top of that, and that kind of sent me spiraling down a rabbit hole. And then the very next year, I lost my grandfather. So 11 through 13 was not my jam. I turned quickly to drugs and alcohol to relieve the stress of things. And, again, abandoned my diabetes for the most part, you know, I took insulin because I had to, but I wasn't keeping track. I was running three, four hundreds all the time. I once he was around 11. Okay, for most of my teenage years.

And I finally got serious with it and buckled down. Like to put things in perspective. Technology had come so far, but I was still using the old one touch meters with the very large test strips, and you had to put like, a gallon of blood on them, even up to 2004

or five. No, really? Yeah. Wow. It was a just, I was in a very bad

place. Yeah, it sounds. So I don't want to do I'm not gonna ask you to dig deep, but your brother, medical or something else. Now something else? Okay. It was just unexpected. It was like, Wow, that's crazy. And you're human. So it took a lot to unpack that all. And then I didn't really have time on packet or the proper guidance or net support network to do that. And then, on top of that I have diabetes to deal with too. So I can only deal with one thing at a time, you know, in diabetes was not it? Yeah, I hear you. Did you have other brothers and sisters? I did. I had an older brother. But He's much older. He was 10 years older than me. So we didn't really share any commonalities. Gotcha. So that, you know, made it even more difficult. David, your parents together? Yeah. All right, mom, dad, we're together. Not the best relationship and not the worst, for sure. But then, in my when I was, I wasn't even out of high school yet. And my father took a massive hit aneurysm sort of massive stroke. And so he was basically a vegetable for a very long time for at least 10 years after that. So I had the old dat and life. Just pass it on. You know, when it rains it pours. Dave, I like how you think you were coming on here to talk about skydiving? I mean, we'll get we'll get to it, Dave but you know, well listen to this all leads to it for sure. Oh, I'm already seeing the path in my head. But yeah, assuming you were trying to kill yourself at some point. But But okay, so when did the drug use start? How old? I think I was 16 or so. And a lot of it was just, it's really funny. Because high school started, I started smoking, trying to mess around cigarettes when I was like 1314. But it really wasn't my thing. And then high school started and I was in a car with a friend and riding home from school. I was going over his house to hang out and his brother in law's sparked up a joint in the front seat. I was like, Oh my gosh, the drivers on drugs. He's smoking drugs. And I'm like, waiting for it to get to me. I'm like, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. And they pass me a joint. They're like, Dave, you know, thank you. It's cool as I could possibly sound and like, Okay, thanks. Yeah, whatever. It was, obviously, not a big deal. But I built it up in my head so much. I was like, Oh my gosh. So then being exposed to it and realizing, hey, this isn't the big deal. My elementary school teachers made it out to be you know, maybe I'll check it out. And so I had no idea what to do. So I found my nearest neighborhood drug dealer and said, Hey, can I get some weed? And the guy was like, Sure. How much do you want? And like, I don't know, I've never bought and he's like, this is your first time and he was so thrilled about it. He's like, Oh my gosh, it's great here. Don't worry about you have to pay for it here just any gave me I think an eighth of weed and no idea what to do. So I just smoked it all one day after work. And man, it was a lot for a 16 year old. They handle an entire eighth by himself the first time and I was just out of my mind, which was such welcomed relief. Like I couldn't tell you between work and then since my father was took a stroke. My mother couldn't handle it. Also, she He retired from being a doctor early, she quit, like just up and quit one day. So we had no money I was working two or three jobs, trying to, you know, help give my money to my family so we can live our lives and supporting my mother and my father and doing adult care for him. It was a it was a lot it was just a door to step out on the side one day and take a breath just nice fresh air, nothing three lakhs and it was very, very medicating my your mom worked, walked away from like a up and quit. Yeah, I got diabetes. Then my brother passed away. I got diabetes. And then my father took us right before my father took a stroke, maybe like a month. Before he did. She was like, I can't do this anymore. She was she was just getting slammed and taken advantage of by her hospital. Just very outright. And she's just like, I'm not there anymore. And she had enough to deal with everything else. So that was her breaking point. Wow, that's insane. Yeah, it's just it's hitting me kind of hard. How quickly it turned on you because I it escalates quickly. Yeah. I imagine that five minutes before your brother, you lose your brother, your your give three people. I was the happiest kid ever. Yeah, right. Your mom's a doctor and everything's good. And here we go. And just like that, and wow. Just like that. No kidding. All right. Well, so I imagine when you were diagnosed, they gave you I mean, 29 years ago is regular an MPH or lentil or something like that? Where were you? Yeah, they give me regular an MPH

at the huge needles. And I took the shots very well. Like, the nurse was like, here, you know, Practice Center origin, you can practice on me. And so I did that. She was like, I think you're ready. And I just, I was so excited. Thankfully, about taking a shot. I was like, This is so cool. So I just jammed it in my leg like, like stabbing a knife, you know, and just did it and I was fine with it didn't matter. And in plus, you know, being around my mother, she's around the hospital the whole time environment, I was very used to the medical environment. So it wasn't a huge step for me. But what about? So management back then just was sort of? I mean, would you shoot in the morning? And in the end before dinner? No. I just shot before every every meal you were giving yourself in some before every meal? Yeah, with the I wouldn't take corrective doses. Like if I had an apple or something between breakfast and lunch, I wouldn't cover for it. Okay. How did I mean? I realized it's a completely different time in management. But how did you see your care back then, like, I imagined was your mom involved? Or did she tried to be but she was a pediatrician on an endocrinologist. So she started attending conferences for diabetes and try to learn more about it, because she didn't really know much about herself. I mean, right? Because it wasn't her field. So she did the best she could dealing with everything and trying to learn a whole new field of medicine. But it was not sufficient at all. I mean, then she tried sending me to, I lived in a very rural part of Pennsylvania, northeastern Pennsylvania, and that we didn't have the best doctors there. So everything was kind of guessing and shooting, I mean, it goes down, shoot around, now you don't shoot from the hip, but it's come so much farther. Now it's more accurate. But back then it was like, Well, you got to take your shot, they've you know, like, well, let's try this amount, see how it works, you know, and, and I wasn't really interested in anything they data testing was the key back then they said, you know, touch yourselves as much as you possibly can. So you can know your sugars and correct and everything I just wasn't having that. I'd actually backlog my meter from so when my mom came home from work, she would check it. And, you know, and see the date and time that I checked myself all these times. And I was playing hooky a lot with that kind of stuff. Right? It's interesting, isn't it that while the management diabetes has changed so drastically over you know, 30 years that the doctors understanding of current management, the percentage of doctors is probably going up a little bit, but it's not overwhelming. Like there really isn't now. Yeah, there's still a I've had to I'm sorry, I've had to fire many endocrinologist. Yeah, well, I'd say it's a weird road we did the drug use escalate, or was it just weed? Not really. I mean, I kept myself in check because I it was one of those things where I'm like, I'm very aware I'm using this medicinally I'm not going to I mean, yeah, I get wrecked at like every morning before high school. So I could deal with the day but I mean, it was never anything more than you know, minor drugs and alcohol use where you manage it wasn't out there doing crack or anything. No crack, David night. No. Okay. Good for you. Like it's you. Everybody has to have their limit. Yeah. By the way, I just like to say here if you use cracking you have type one diabetes, please email me, I would love to have you on. So I'm not kidding. But um, okay, so the we are managing the are you managing stress with weed? Or Are you overwhelmed? Yeah. How does it How did it feel to not be high? I guess is the question. Oh, it was just awful, you know, because I didn't have it was like a nice constant massage. Every time I was high. I kind of felt, you know, relaxed, okay to deal with this and handling stuff. But other than that, it was up tense. You know, worrying about so much stuff. My mind was scattered when I wasn't medicating myself. And it was a tough time. Like, you had to face reality. My brother's not here. I have a incurable disease that's going to eventually potentially kill me. And my life was pretty much filled up bottom of the barrel right now. Yeah. And your blood sugars must have been high too. So Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I think I was tested 150 once and I felt super low. Right? I was like, my blood sugar is low. I need something and I tested this. I was 150. And I was like, oh, boy, this is not gonna

forget. Yeah, just, well, it happens to like, you know, happens to people now. It's gonna happen to you. If you if you've had significantly high blood sugars for a while your body gets accustomed to it. And then even a normal blood sugar could feel like you're 30. And right, yeah. And that's a real feeling. It's like, just because your blood sugar's 150. And you're not in mortal danger. Doesn't mean you're not dizzy or disoriented, or whatever comes with it. Right, you know, that varies from person to person, of course. But that's, that's really crazy. Wow, you just sound like you were all on. I really was. Yeah, you get out of high school. Okay, did you graduate? I did. Yeah, I went to a prep school, I graduated with a C, I think, and I ended up going to college out of state in New Jersey. And I kind of rethought things and stepped back a little bit and said, You know, I really need to get my stuff straight. So I did really good. My freshman year, I got a 3.98 and then GPA and then I found my social circle, and let it go. And my diabetes got the better of me and I started felt falling and old ways. And my next semester was a little bit less than than semester after that was point, nine, eight GPA 0.98. It was just a awful time. Yeah, it's struggling a lot with financial situations and diabetes, I remember I ran out of my regular insulin. And just not not for any other reason that I think I was just getting lazy and not caring about it giving the right attention. And I didn't realize I was running out. So my mother would ship it from the house to the pharmacy there. And, you know, we we didn't even think that, hey, why don't I get a doctor in our school? You know, like, my mind wasn't on that level, where I was able to focus on things like that to make those judgment calls. And so she would ship my insulin from Pennsylvania to New Jersey. And there was about a week I was living on just mph timing it right and overlapping my doses just so I be able to eat lunch and until dinner and stuff like that with no regular of what age should you start using faster acting insulin 2000. Was it around the time about when you upgrade your meter? Or was it prior to that? Not now? I think 2007 Okay, let's start using fast acting. Yeah. So I moved down to Philadelphia, and 2005 and for work, and I got tired of running home again, like my mind just wasn't right. So I was running back home to see my endocrinologist in northeastern Pennsylvania, two hours away, instead of just going to Philadelphia Doctor getting a Philadelphia doctor who was world ahead of any of these people that I was seeing and getting everything straightened. But one day I just had enough and I was like it clicked. I was like, why don't I just do this. So I pulled the trigger. I went down and I saw an endocrinologist and he wouldn't see me it was a top rated doctor of Philadelphia endocrinologist he made number one list on some magazine, whatever. He wouldn't see me because I was not on a pump. He only saw pump patients which kind of grinded my gears a little bit. But I'm sure my agency didn't have anything to do with it either. But um, so he pulled me off to his nurse, head nurse or whatever to see me and she was really she was sharp man. She was so sharp. She was much better than any of the doctors in back home that I had seen. Okay. And she she walked in she was like they this is trash Antonios and you got to get rid of it. Use this stuff. She gave me a bunch of free samples. She ordered me tons and tons of insulin saying I was taking like seven The unit today like prescription wise so I double up on my insulin and have backups and stuff and she got me all straightened out with everything and that's where I turn the page a little bit. She's been in Philly Yeah 2007 Right. Okay, so then I saw her and things started getting infinitely better but then she noticed, you know, a all my wicked ways are catching up to me. So I was spilling a lot of urine protein out of my urine. She was like, you gotta go see a kidney doctor. Go check get checked out. So I found out I had only one kidney working roughly because of my terrible diabetes treatments. And so I got straightened out with kidney doctor a little bit. I got screened out my eye doctor, I had to get my I started going so I got the the laser treatments I had to get injections of both eyes. And that was in like 2008 and because my I was getting severe retinopathy, but everything cleared up. They took care of it. I got my blood sugar's straight. And I have 2020 vision now except after hitting 40 something i

i It seemed like happen over the course of three days. I'm now farsighted. I don't know we're just old age stuff. You know, nothing crazy, but it's still messing with me. Yeah, I can't believe I'm getting so old did my so quickly. My sight was so perfect my entire life. I mean, like, hues and contrast and depth and sharpness at any distance. I just I saw like a razor. And then one day I saw these like, floating things. I looked up in the sky, my sunlight were having a catch. And I looked up into the sky, and I could see it looked like things were floating across the sky. And I of course, I immediately panicked. I went to my doctor, and I was like, I have eye cancer. I don't know if that's a real thing or not. You gotta get in there and find out. And he's like, Oh, Scott, you have floaters. He goes, it's pretty normal for your age. And I was like, fix it. And he's like, Oh, we don't fix this. I was like, Oh, yeah. So you just kind of learned to look through it and don't see it anymore. You know, and it's died down over the years. But then suddenly, the next thing that happened was like, I just couldn't see my phone in front of my face anymore. And I was just like, I can't, I can't focus on the on the phone. And I had to get glasses for reading. And just it was it's, I mean, it's a bummer how quick it happens. And you're but you're dealing with all this other stuff. So tell me first, how did they treat your kidneys. So they, they wanted to do a they wanted to see us going to Jefferson University Hospital is very respected in the community. And they're like, well, we need to try out all these. So it's very convoluted that the doctor they sent me to was just about to retire and move to Florida, like within like a couple of months. So he's like, I'm not gonna start you on treatments. If you're not gonna be my patient, he goes, here take this, like, it was basically a diuretic that flushed out all the potassium out of my system, because my potassium is very, very high. He goes, I'll put you on some pills and just slam this potassium three times a week, and you're gonna poop your brains out, essentially. And that's what how I managed it for three months until the new doctor came in and said, you know, we need to get you on a statin, we need to put a water pill on you, we need to mess around your dosing. And that was I think about a year long guessing game with treatment and dosage and pills and everything and my ankles, swelling up the size of softballs and figuring everything out. Mess around by diet, low sodium diet, no potassium, no bananas, potatoes, tomatoes. I'm Italian, you take that away from me, like I cry, cry about it daily. But we got it all figured out. And everything's been holding good. My kidney functions have actually increased from when I was checked in with it and diagnosed. So I have a little bit more than one kidney, but still pain in the ass. Okay, do you think you'll ever have to do dialysis? Yeah, I well. So as long as my, I asked my doctor, the same thing is, it's gonna happen because you're gonna get old. And that's a road that you can't avoid. Because people when they're 7080 started having showing the effects that you're showing right now. And they're, they're perfectly healthy and they're eating right and everything. It just happens because you're old. So the best thing you can do is just keep your diabetes maintained and put that off as long as you can leave it to your body to deteriorate it on its own instead of helping it. I see and that's what I've been doing. But I was I pay attention to a lot of that research stuff coming out and they're doing a lot the past presidential administration, President Trump had his wife working on kidneys disease was very near and dear to her heart. So she she was putting a lot of efforts and resources into developing research for that and The they made a lot of progress. And my doctor at the time said, you know, I'll be very frankly, David. The bright side of this is there's usually big developments in medicine every 10 years. They can bookmark it. So hang in there for another 10 years and we'll see what turns the page. So that's kind of what I've been doing. At what point did you or have you, I guess? I mean, you said you met the nurse and she she moved up to more modern insulin. Were you able to bring your agency down and get your blood sugar's more

Scott Benner 25:34
Oh, for sure. Yeah. So I got I got my agency down from guess what friends the Omni pod five automated delivery system is here. It's available. The Omni pod five is the only tubeless automated insulin delivery system that integrates with the Dexcom G six CGM, and it uses smart adjust technology to automatically adjust your insulin delivery every five minutes, helping to protect against highs and lows without multiple daily injections. On the pod five is currently cleared for people with type one diabetes ages six and older Omnipod five has the option to control it from a compatible smartphone. And it's also available through your pharmacy, which means you can get started without the four year Durable Medical Equipment contract that comes with most insulin pumps, even if you're currently in warranty with another system. Well, that's awfully interesting, isn't it? To get started today with Omni pod five go to Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. For full safety and risk information a list of compatible phones as well as clinical trial claims data, go to omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. And if you're not quite ready for automated insulin delivery, go check out the Omni pod dash at the same link because you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash full safety risk information free trial terms and conditions are also available at my link Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. My daughter Arden is out today. She hasn't been home for a number of hours. And I can see her blood sugar's while she's not here. I'm able to do that because Arden is wearing the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitoring system. So right now Arden has little device on her. It's talking to her phone, her phone is sharing her information and my phone is receiving it actually up to 10 people can share Arden's data, if she wants. At the moment, I'm watching a small Miss looks like she didn't Pre-Bolus quite enough for a meal, her blood sugar went up. I'm seeing it being taken care of. And I'm watching it come back down. None of this is stressful because not only does the Dexcom G six show me the number her blood sugar is, but it shows me the speed and direction that it's moving in with directional arrows between the arrows and the numbers and the graph, I feel very comfortable at the rate that Arden's blood sugar is coming back into range. Not only is this great for safety, but it's great for learning. We'll use this information to go back next time and make a better decision with insulin. You can get started today@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. And you may be eligible for a free 10 day trial, the G six you can also find that out at my link. These are our results and yours may vary. But looking into Dexcom is a no brainer in my opinion. Let me just tell you the rest and then we'll get right back to David. Here it is. It's super simple. Supporting the podcast can be done in a number of ways you can share the show with someone else, leave a great review where you listen, subscribe or follow in a podcast app or other audio player. Or you can click on the links for the advertisers. There are links in the show notes of the podcast player you're listening in now. And if there's not, if your podcast player is like a reared woman, it's not there. You can also go to juicebox podcast.com and click on my links when you do that. You are supporting future production of the Juicebox Podcast omnipod.com forward slash juice box Dex comm.com forward slash juice box juicebox podcast.com. And don't forget to take that survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. I appreciate you checking out the ads. Now let me get you back to David

Dave 29:42
I got my agency down from nine at the time in 2007 to I think I was like 7.5 Right? That's a big big decrease. Yeah, she gave me a new meter test you know all that stuff. The good pep talk that went a long way to what tech I want you to have right now. So I am up to date on pretty much everything. I don't have a pumped I'm still MDI multiple daily injections. Just, I just pumped up my thing. I've looked it over and done my due diligence and it's just not for me. But I have a Dexcom CGM.

And I have a, I forget what my meter is actually, I use it so infrequently.

Well, but I calibrate my Dexcom with it. And that's about it. Right? Is it a good is listen, as long as it's an accurate meter and you're calibrated? It is? Yeah, for sure. We get the G five or G six g six g six. Okay. All right. So you have a CGM, your MDI, your agency's in the sevens? No, no, it's in the sixes. 6.3. That's wonderful. Congratulations. I choose that a lot to my wife. I got married in 2013. She she's like, Listen, you stick around for a while. We're gonna be build a family. You gotta get your stuff together. Like all right. Deal. So she, I mean, so ironically, in 2010, I met my wife and on a date, and I was like, oh, sorry. I'm not doing drugs here. I'm a diabetic. Shoot my shot before dinner. And she's like, Oh, that's fine. My father's a diabetic. I'm like, really? So she she was a grandfathered in and the whole situation already, which was made it super duper easy. And she's like, Hey, take your shot. Did you take your long acting you take your time goes, Do you need tablets, like stuff like that? She had tablets in her purse already, like for her dad like? So it was like it was a nice transition. David, you're making me a little sad. I don't think you realize it. I'm, I'm seeing your I'm seeing your life like this. I'm seeing tragedy in your family. I'm assuming rock you and your mother. Then another tragedy comes along, hits you guys again, put your mom in more stress, she's probably got to make a decision for her own sanity and for what's most emergent, which I assume is your dad's care. And then she quits her job. And then your life gets I mean, you talked about interesting. You talked about prep school in high school, but money problems in college. So now I'm feeling I had money problems all my life. How did you? How did you get the money problems? So my mother was a doctor, the first year of prep, and then then I worked three jobs through high school to maintain the status of the school. Oh, geez, you should have dropped out. Yeah. But then you meet this woman in 2010. And she's kind of all the things that I imagined that young David needed. Yeah. 100% Yeah. Yeah, he bummed me out, man. We don't. Yeah, the whole thing was like a Hallmark movie to me for a half a second. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna cry. I don't want to I don't even know you. You don't even listen to the dude, you don't even listen to even know me, like, what am I into here? But that's, uh, I appreciate you sharing this. I mean, it's really. I mean, it can't be it just can't be said enough that your situation is more common than not. And I think that sometimes the people who are have been listening to podcasts for a long time her doing great. Probably think like, oh, this is what everyone does. But listen, I'll tell you if I could. If I got diagnosed today, my life would be easy street. I'd be like, Oh, okay, I have diabetes, no problem. My wife's there to support me. I have a support staff. I have the online community. Listen, back in 1998. Online didn't really exist, especially for impoverished David, not at all, who could barely afford lunch like, so we have all these good Facebook communities, you're very strong and very knowledgeable. If I want to find a diabetic, I had to go to diabetes camp. And that was just awkward at that age, you know, so like, it was more of a babysitting club than anything, right. Yeah. So now we have all this support. And yeah, if I would be in 100% perfect health. If I got diabetes today with CGM, fast acting insulin support, and the doctors knowledge now. Yeah, it's a different world. Everything that you need exists now. right not to say that it's not a battle. It's still a tremendous battle for anyone. Oh, yeah. And everything that exists now can get better and should. But I mean, compared. I'm saying specifically compared to 30 years ago. Oh, my gosh, yeah, lightyears ahead. Yeah. It's just it's a different world, really. And it's not something that got gradually better like bicycles, you know, they Okay, so they added a spring here, they added a software seat now, diabetes jumps like magnificent advances, you know, not not by kind of getting a little bit better here and there. So I mean, every five years, 10 years, you know, it's significant.

I like hearing somebody who's been around it for a long time having that perspective, because I think if you're more newly diagnosed or newer to it or not paying attention, you know, the advancements feel slower in the moment. But when you have the perspective of real time, like you do, you know, like, you know that one day it was insulin that was, and then it went to meters that were and then you know, suddenly the insulin got faster and the meters got better. And then CGM comes and I mean, the insulin genre again, you know, it's come a long way, in 30 years is a short amount of time. Unless you're living through it. And then it's your life, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny. Just on an aside, I saw I found this article from the Pew Research Center all the way back in 2007. When it said in 1998 41% of adults were online 57% of non internet users said that they worry not at all about missing out on something. It's by not going online like this 57 of the population was like, I don't need that internet. You know. And now, my family has definitely an on that fence. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. So when did you I mean, what led you to skydiving? So funny. It's very bizarre. I was. So I had just moved to Philly in 2005. And I, I just didn't know anyone. It was a, I had a very, very, very difficult breakup. Prior to that, and I was working at McDonald's as a manager with my bachelor's degree, and I'm like, I really need something. But there was just nothing out there for me at the time. So I was trying my hardest to find a job. And I finally found one in Philadelphia. So I just picked up and left. I'm like, you know, screw this. I'm out of here. This area sucks. I just need to change in my life. I need to distance my problems from my environment. So I moved down to Philadelphia, I didn't know a soul. And I started. I finally got myself a computer. I hadn't had my own computer. This is 2005 finally bought a computer. And I was like, I think I'm going to try this online dating thing ever. He's talking about. So I was on this date with this girl. If I met online, and we're talking at the bar, and they was going okay, it's nothing spectacular. And she's like, we started talking about bucket list items. And she brought up Skynet, skydiving and I was like, Oh, I always wanted to Sky she was really I never meet anybody that ever wants to do it with me. I'm so excited. I'm like, yeah, she's like, Okay, well, listen, it's getting late. So I'm gonna go home, and you and I are gonna go jump tomorrow. I'm like, okay, you know, I'm at this point. I'm like, six, eight beers deep at the bar already. And it's like midnight. And I'm like, Sure, you could have told me I'd write it off. And I would have said yes and agreed to it. Dave, did you agree to skydive to get laid? Is that what I'm hearing here? No, no, it was a genuine. I absolutely wanted to do it in the social lubricant, made it easier for me to agree to it. So I was like, Yeah, sure when I should. Okay, well, I'm gonna go home now. I'm gonna go buy my tickets online. And then I'm gonna text you and you're gonna buy yours. It will go in the morning. I was like, Okay, fine. She laughed. I was like, Well, I guess that that was a flop date. I'm like, whatever. So I haven't gone home. Literally, like 20 minutes later, I get a text on my phone from this chick. And she's like, I'm like, she bought her tickets. I'm like, I guess I have to now too. So it's one of those things I was like, alright, so I bought them and shut up next morning. It was about a half hour from Philadelphia. Big Big shout out to my home drops on skydive crosskeys in Williamstown, New Jersey. Amazing, amazing facility and company just run by the best people for all the right reasons, wonderful environment, safety first there, and just a really great experience overall, for anybody who's thinking about it. So I show up, and she brought a couple of her friends and we're all talking about it. And they're like, Oh, I think I'm gonna get a videographer and have a video of my skydive. And I was like, watching these people jump and I'm like, that looks really, really fun. And I am a dread adrenaline junkie, all the way I did motocross through high school and things like that, and rock climbing. I don't shy away from that stuff. And I was like, I don't think I'm gonna get one. Because I know as soon as I'm done jumping, I'm going to have to go again. So it won't be one of those things. It's one and done for me, right. So we got geared up and read the spiel. Got our safety checks, gotten the airplane. And if you haven't been skydiving ever have you gotten Scott?

No, I? I have not. Okay, well, yeah. I'll talk you through it a little bit. So you can come on my journey. Picture the very smallest airplane you can ever get into. It's half falling apart. Then you shove 20 people inside and everybody's sitting on your lap. And everybody is very hungover from the night before and very loud. And the plane shaking takes If you start going up to altitude and everybody's horsing around on the plane, then the pilot finally says, Okay, we're good, the door opens up, and you're about 14,000 feet up in the air. And it's a very large door, and nobody's seat belted in. It's really crazy. And you look at it like, wow, and then somebody climbs out of the airplane, jumps onto the wing and then skydives off from the wing, the whole plane shakes rocks back and forth from the weight distribution loss. And the guy looks at me, he goes, Alright, you ready? He clicks me in, and I'm like, Alright, and then we go out of the airplane, and it, it was just the rest is history. For me. It was absolutely the most your fork thing ever in the history of the world. There's a line in the movie Point Break that they talk about, you know, some people have to shoot drugs for sniffing coke, for this kind of feeling, we get it every time we jump out of the plane. And man, it's true. It's, it's so euphoric, and perfect. A lot of the skydiving, drive is for the views. Wonderful. You're above the clouds, man, you're flying, you're literally flying through the clouds. And it's absolutely wonderful to be by yourself and not trapped in an airplane or you have a device hooked to you, you know. And it, it's, I liken it to, you know, a lot of these monks, Tibetan monks, they do meditation for many, many years, decades sometimes to achieve that inner peace for just a moment. And where they don't think about anything, except their mind is just blank. And that is exactly what happens when you step out the door of skydiving, you. You can't think about the bills you have to pay. You're not thinking about what you're gonna do later tonight, your mind is strictly focused with laser sharp accuracy, in every moment passing before your eyes. It is the best feeling in the world not to worry about anything else and keep your mind focused. Because nowadays, you know, we're sort of torn between work or phones or kids or you know, jobs, stuff like that. Your mind is all over the place. When's the last time you were able to focus on one thing without getting distracted about literally anything else in the world for one minute? Let's admit it's very calming and peaceful. Yeah, how long does it last? So the sky is a freefall is about a minute. And then you open your parachute you have maybe depending on how big your parachute is, how small it is, your descent rate changes. So you could it could be anywhere from a five minute dive on your parachute to, you know, 1015 minute parachute ride. Wow, no kidding. How that's insane. It really is that you could be up there that long. It's great man. Some people do. As soon as they get out of the plane, they don't do freefall, they just open their parachute. And they do what they call a cross country jump, which is just the opening parachute immediately. And then you man, you have 20 minutes half hour up there if you want. Wow, really nice. Have you ever ended up in a tree? Yes, I have. So I was going through progressing through skydiving school. Because as soon as I landed that day, I'm like, Yep, I'm doing it like this is I'm coming back as soon as I can. So I signed up for the ground school and they teach all you know the science part about it and everything. ground speed wins, you know, stuff like that. And then the actual skydiving part comes a little bit later. And you have to focus on landing patterns and things like that. And they had clipped a, a, a walkie talkie on me and another student and they're like, they're like, Okay, when you open your parachute, we're gonna have eyes on you. And you'll hear from us checks like, I can't talk to them, but they can talk to me kind of thing. And we'll walk you through landing pattern. I'm like, Okay, fine. So I did that everything was great. And I I was just, again, having way too much fun up there. Like, David you're too low for landing pattern. We're just start doing S turns and eat up altitude and land right where you are. I'm like, I had no idea what they meant by S turns I was not briefed on that at all. So the men you know, make a left turn and make a right turn make a left turn right turn.

So so you don't travel too far forward, right? Because I was running out of landing area. So I was making very very large calligraphy S turns nice and short, a tiny ones. And I like I was coming right for a patch of pine trees. It was pretty thick. So I immediately fell back on my training and you got to protect your vital organs. So I put my arms in front of me and made fists in front of my hands and crashed right through the trees. I was fine. The branches slowed me down, no injury, except my pride. They had to come and fish me out of a tree and everybody took pictures and laughed at me and then I had to buy beer for everybody at the drop zone because it's my first time doing anything So anything in this skydiving sport is a first. It's a beer penalty. Gotcha. And the thinking behind that is you have to buy beer for the after party so that you debrief. Everybody talks about what you did. And they share their stories with it, right. And everybody learns that way from it, you know, and it's a nice, relaxed atmosphere. And it was it was productive. And I learned a lot about it. And so the next time I went up, I knew not to mess around. So I jumped out of the plane, and I helped my parachute. And I got my confirmation check. And I didn't eat up my altitude and get close to the ground before my landing counter started. So I started following the procedures on the walkie talkie. And the like, No, David, you're doing the wrong one. We're talking to this student. And I didn't know they had two students on the same line frequency. So I was following all the directions for another student. And I ended up landing off of the drop zone. In the last words they said to me were, well, we can't see any more so good luck. You're on your own. Like, oh, man, so I ended up landing in this development on this guy's front yard. And it was like right around when school that out. So all the kids came like pouring out of the house, cheering for me and clapping everything. I gave him big thumbs up. I was like, meanwhile, I was sweating. My you know what's off, and they thought it was all planned and everything worked out. And I got back to the drop zone. And I was like, oh, we'll do that again. How many times? Those are my only two real close calls. Yeah.

How many times have you jumped in? Do you know? Yeah, I have about three or four hours of freefall time. It.

So adding up every one minute jump? adds up to three or four hours. So I think I have close to 300 jumps. Wow. Does your wife do it with you? She did it once just to try it out. But her excuse was a she did it for the scenery. So if we go somewhere else, she might jump again to see the different scenery but we were in Hawaii for our honeymoon. She didn't want to jump. So I think she's kind of done with it. Yeah, no kidding. And do you have kids? I do I have a 18 month year old boy now and a four year old girl. Okay. gratulations. That's really cool. Thank you. Hey, did you say that? You did say that her father has diabetes. But was it type one or type two? Is type one. No kidding. Will you write madam? Will you do? Well listen, before I asked my question, I interviewed somebody yesterday, who met a kid in school, they were childhood sweethearts. She had diabetes growing up, they got married. And for years, then the guy gets diabetes too. And then they one of their kids does. So now I'm just like, I believe anything at this point. But do you consider or have you done trial net for your kids? Are you interested to know if they have the antibodies? I have not. It'll I don't want to focus on that. If it happens, it happens. I'm fairly religious guy. So whatever happens happens, we'll take it. Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. I'm just interested. Yeah. So I wouldn't want to know when I'm gonna die. Yeah. It's kind of saying thank you. Yeah. Well, it's it's Yeah, right. Church. Wrong pew, though. I mean, like, you're not getting kids aren't good. Yeah. But although you have a it's interesting. You've lived more years struggling with diabetes than you've lived with it kind of the way you are now. So when you think of diabetes, it feels like a struggle to you. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Do you think it ever won't feel like that? No, no, I mean, maybe if I was 100%. But with these kidney disease issues? Yeah, it's, it's always gonna be struggle, right? What if I told you and this is not me selling to you. But what if I told you that there are algorithms now that if you were a pump, your agency could easily stay in the fives or low sixes with much less effort? Right? Yeah. Is it not not attractive? Now, okay. For the device, just just the idea of wearing the device or what else do you think you wouldn't like about pumping? No, I think it's the idea that device I mean, there's a lot of you know, I follow a lot of pump people pretty closely. I skydive with some people that were pumps and they're always talking about the line tangles, the bubbles in the lines, the the site, pulls out, yanks out of the sleeping or catches on a doorknob, stuff like that. It's just, it's not my lifestyle. Yeah, no, listen, I my daughter wears a tubeless pump. So I don't think we'd be up for tubing either. Right? Yeah, no, I listened again, I don't have any opinion about what you do. I'm just interested in your thoughts around it. Right. So I think I when the technology gets better, I might be up for it. But as of now, I'm gonna still watch on the sidelines. That's excellent. What was I gonna just ask you, oh, what are your you know, everyone listening is like, well, you should probably ask him Scott how he jumps with diabetes. That seems like an obvious question of what we're talking about. and it is what I was thinking first over everyone who thought how does he not know what the next question is? That is my next question. How do you like to have your blood sugar before a jump? And how do you manage the whole thing. So managing diabetes while Skydiving is interesting, because everything is affecting it. The adrenaline makes my insulin more effective. So I easily if I take four units of fast acting for a soda, I easily only need to when I'm skydiving, I have to be aware of also potential lows, on jumps, because last thing I want to do is be in the air with the parachute pack while going through a low blood sugar. I could barely do it on the ground, you know. So for that reason, like I keep tablets in my locker at this, my skydiving drop zone, and in the hangar and also in my pockets. Anytime I jump in case I again land off and have to walk back to the drop zone. Do you have? Do you have a blood sugar you'd like to be at before you go? Because it's interesting. I do. Yeah, I like to fly a little sweet around 160. Okay, yeah, I was gonna say it's interesting. Adrenaline spikes, some people, and it makes some people go lower. I've heard I've heard people talk about it both ways. Bizarre. So if you if you jumped at 160 By the time you get to the ground, you're much lower you think?

Not much lower, usually 10 points lower here and I usually have to sometimes, I mean, it all again depends on that day and my breakfast habits and stuff like that, which I normally skip. I usually skip breakfast if I'm skydiving so I don't have to worry about carbs counting and everything and getting messed up. So I go on fasting sugars, but because I feel it's easier to manage that way. But I blood test before and after every jump. And sometimes it varies. I'll go up 160 I'll land it'll be like 89. Wow, that's some and sometimes I'll have to take a couple tablets before I go up. Hey, is it expensive to skydive super expensive kind of. So at first, it's super expensive. And then as you progress through the sport, it actually gets a lot cheaper I feel. But I mean, a tandem skydive is roughly $200 Wow, I think that might include a video. Okay. And then. So you do three tandem skydive, and then you start skydiving on your own. But you have to rent gear it so it's like skiing, you have to rent the gear and pay for the lift pick it up, right. So the gears, parachutes, brand new can cost like 10 grand, but I got my first parachute for I think $1,200. And that was the full deal. parachutes are tons of little pieces and the nickel and diming for everything, your canopy that you fly above You is costs a separate price than the strings it's attached to. And then you got to buy the book bag to store everything in. And then you have to buy your backup parachute. And then you have to buy an automatic activation device, which is a safety device that deploys your parachute in case you're you can't do it yourself. And you have to have everything checked every six months, which is another fee. But all after you get all that squared away. It's the lift ticket is $26. So Scott, it was roughly 26 bucks for me every time. Gotcha because you have everything else at this point. Right? Yeah. You know, you said something earlier, I skipped by it. But I want to come back to it. You said you jump, you'd like to jump a little sweeter at first. I've interviewed like 700 people. No one said that before. Yeah. And it seems so obvious when you said it is like a euphemism for having your blood sugar higher for something. And I was like, I think it was like How has no one ever said that before? So that's funny, fun terminology. So you jump with other people who have type one. I do. Yeah. rant. I was I was at my locker and this other guy. So my skydiving drop zone is a very large age. Let me refer to in the industry as a tandem factor. Dave, let me stop you skydiving school. Headphones set up. So very tandem friendly son, Scott, I've dropped zones are literally an airplane hangar in a field. That's it. And it's just for what they call fun jumpers, people who already have their license, go out on the weekends and bang out a couple of jumps. But this one is set up for students and 10 people who just want to try it once. So it's very large and people come from all over the country to it. So I was at my locker one day and I noticed the guy next to me fumbling with his insulin pump. I go is that an insulin pump? Yeah, I'm diabetic by walking. Yeah, I mean, so he's like, No way. So it was really funny. That entire world we have two diabetic skydivers lined up next to each other. Did your headphones come? Disconnected? Can you hear me? Scott you there buddy? Yeah, your headphones do they come? unpaired Oh, Scott, you there He's got Hey, how are you? Hey, there we go. Good. Good. Sorry. No, you started talking about I asked if he jumped with other type ones. And your voice changed. And I thought, Oh, his headphones disconnected because you were suddenly coming through a different microphone. I didn't know from where? Then I started realizing you were in your car didn't know if it connected to your car or what happened. But yeah, I think it went on safe driving mode. I think it just technology got the better of us. It was just, and then I'm like, he can't hear me. So I started texting through the app. And I was like, I don't even know if he's seen these or not. So, no. Anyway, we worked that out very nicely. So okay, great. Actually, you're so yeah, your story came right through, but go over it again, just for me. So, yeah, I saw a guy messing with his pumping. I was like, is that an insulin pump? He goes, Yeah, I'm diabetic. And he gave me the whole spiel. And was like me, too. It was very funny in the entire world. You know, the two diabetic skydivers have a locker next to each other?

Yeah, no kidding. You know, I have a similar feeling at the grocery store. I don't know if anyone's ever noticed this or not, but you park at the grocery store. And then you go into your thing, when you come back out. The person who's also coming back out is always parked next year. I guess it's just like an average time. And the funny thing. Do you ever notice that or No, I don't have to pay attention, though. I feel like there's like some synchronicity going on that we're generally unaware of. I don't know. I'm just telling you watch out for it. You pull in somewhere, somebody else pulls in, you know, there's no one else there. You get out. And the next thing you know, you come back out and that person's there. I'm just saying either I'm in the matrix, and there's a glitch or I noticed this a lot. One of the other that's funny. Yeah. But yeah, that is crazy. That that's that you just be I mean, there's not like there's that many people there, right? No, no, for sure. Yeah. It's really wow, you guys are you do know each other. So? Oh, yeah, for sure. We're friends. We jump all the time together. He lives in Maryland, I think. So he comes up to jump and we always check each other to try to meet up. And we joke we're doing a world record skydives together to diabetic largest diabetic skydive in history. Wow. Just three more guys, you set a world record? For what I saw, I feel compelled to ask you I mean, obviously your answer is going to be no. But if you can give me kind of bigger picture and how you've thought through it in the past, do you ever think like, I'm going to jump out of this plane one day, and I'm just gonna push into the ground. For sure that is always something in the back of your mind. But with skydiving, it's a it's a very, very unrealistic picture to what the media portrays, and what you know, the television shows show and stuff like that. There's a lot of science and safety behind every single job. And it's a whole thing. So with my parachute, I could probably shove it in my book bag and 10 minutes package up on get on the plane and go jump. But my reserve parachute takes two people three hours to pack they have to check every line set and go over every stitch and record everything every fold, and things like that. And then we also have what they call a these automatic activation devices. So if you're going faster than a certain speed at a certain altitude, it will automatically deploy your your backup parachute. And that is it's happened a couple of times to me but I deployed myself not that I wasn't able to for one reason or another because malfunctions in skydives are, are fairly common, but it's nothing that you can't work through. It's very rare that you you actually face this real emergency up there. And a lot of it is just through horsing around or not being aware of your surroundings, things like that. Do you remember the first time you pulled your main chute and it didn't work? Oh, yeah, totally. So it's your your main parachute is basically on a string. And it comes out the bottom of your book bag. With a hacky sack tied to it, that's your handle. So you pull on the hacky and you literally pull out your parachute out of your book bag, and it's got a mini tiny parachute on the end of it that catches the wind and pulls the rest of the the main parachute out. Okay. Once your main parachutes open, the mini parachute collapses automatically. And then you could steer your parachute through whether you still have forward movement in the air. Because you can dance up there if you want, you can put your body in any kind of positions and move around like a bird and you are in complete control of your direction and where you're going. And if you want to be upside down or face down or up, whatever. So if you still have forward movement during your deployment, you can tangle up your parachute lines, you know and that could lead to a very standard malfunction called the line twists and some people don't even consider that a malfunction because it's so common. So it's essentially, if you were to, have you ever sat on a swing at a playground and put yourself around a couple times I have, that's, that's what it looks like when you look up, your lines are all crossed together and tiny. So to get out of that, you just have to essentially move your body twisted around and do a bicycle kick, and your lines come apart, and you fly your parachute. But sometimes based on the size of your parachute, you lose altitude. So if I have a whole lot of fabric above my head, and I'm flying a very large parachute, it's less of a problem than if I'm flying a little tiny napkin, the parachute going very, very fast. So I can lose a lot more altitude based on a bigger parachute. So then that's where the issues come in. Yeah, you know, it's like, you can drive a Winnebago, you know, you'll, you'll be pretty much accident free. But

if you have that same kid jump in a Ferrari, he's probably going to cause an accident relative and you know, like, so it's this equipment that you use, and that so my malfunction happened because I still had forward movement in my skydive when I should have just been hanging out not doing anything and just deployed my parachute. I had some line twists. And I was like, Oh, I have like, twist again. Okay, let me try and work out. And then I tried working them out. But then I started getting more aggressive, they started getting more aggressive to the point where I was like a pendulum. Instead of being straight up and down, I was sideways and I could see the Earth in the ground, the sky and the ground spinning above and below me and I was like, I'm sideways right now. This is not good. And I checked my altimeter and usually open your parachute around 5000 feet, a little bit below the clouds. And then you have until 2000 feet or 2500 to figure stuff out. I was getting close to that 2500 I'm like, Well, I guess I gotta try out this extra parachute I always have. So I said my prayer and I yanked on my reserve and it opened up and it was perfect. It was instant. I had perfect parachute above my head instantly before my other one was even departed from my parachute setup. It felt very relieving. And when I got to the ground, like, hey, congratulations on your first reserve ride. We need a case of beer from you. And how was it? And I'm like, I didn't really fly it like everybody's like talking me like I'm test driving a car. And like I very delicately made turns and inputs into the parish to get me the ground. Like I didn't want to mess with it, because it was my only one left. And I have Do you Have you ever known anyone who's who's died doing it? Yeah, we do lose a couple of people in the sport. It's not often. But I've had about three close friends pass away. One Most recently, she was on a very large group skydive. And when you're in a very large formation, you got to hang on as long as he can to make the formation. So your open altitude is much lower, they open a lot lower for but there again, these people are all professionals. They're not just some Joe Schmo excited to take a parachuting, you know. So she opened up low, she had lion twist, she was flying a very fancy small parachute. They got more aggressive. And she couldn't get out of it. I'm not sure if she had her activation device on because again, sometimes sports parachutes professionals, you're you're flying your parachute at the speed that your activation device would open up, you know, my right because they're, they're so advanced. So sometimes they turn them off and she wasn't able to recover from the spin. Let me choose from sir. She was older she was I think 65 I was gonna ask you about the adrenaline. Two parts of it, actually. So the one part is, does it ever, like diminish or get old? Or do you? It? Does it hit? You know, it's wonderful. I mean, you learn to management, it's like, you can be drunk, you know, 100 times, but your first drunk is much different than the last drunk, right? So you'll learn to manage the feeling and enjoy it more rather than just experience it. Okay? And then this is a little morbid. And if I'm off base, just tell me so but no, no, God does it in what's the word I want? Does it increase the intensity knowing somebody who's past doing it? Does it act? No, not? Not at all. I mean, if, if anything, it just makes you step back. And you know, instead of just throwing your parachute rig on and jumping on the plane, you walk through your safety checks one more time and farther in depth, you know, right? Because you're like, I just want to make sure it's not going to be my fault. If I mess up or screw up, you know, you get hurt. Can you insure yourself against that? Against Well, like I would imagine if you're like a frequent skydiver, like getting like life insurance might not be easy. Oh, yeah, right now. So the we belong to an association through our skydiving sport that everybody has to join up in sign in for it and they provide hospital billing stuff like they, they assist with that stuff. If I fly my parachute into a parked car in a parking lot, they will pay for it. Stuff like that. So they do help. But yeah, I'm not looking for life insurance for anyone, anytime soon. What some people have floated the idea of some entrepreneurs are trying to do skydiving, insurance, life insurance stuff companies, but I'm not one for life insurance anyway to begin with. So no, don't really affect me. My, my consideration, there was just, you know, thinking about the kids, and that was one I'm thinking about my kids actually, I was like, I wonder, right? If I, if I left to do this, if my wife wouldn't be like, Hey, you're not doing that. You know, but it's just, it's a fascinating thing. It's very different to me, the idea of doing it is, I mean, it's outside of what I would consider doing. And right, you know, so it's just interesting to hear about, honestly.

It is, I mean, it's one of the reasons why I enjoy the sport so much. It's not everybody does it, and the people that do do it, you connect with them immediately. And especially connecting with people who have diabetes and do it like it makes it even more intense. So there, I block to a very small Facebook community group of skydivers that have diabetes, and there's 26 of us so far in the known world. And it's a really close knit community. It's really cool. What's the name of the Facebook group? skydivers with diabetes maybe is diabetic skydivers. I'm looking see if I can find it I'm trying doesn't it doesn't like what I'm doing type one diabetic skydivers. There you go. 26 people? Yep. Maybe you'll get more. Yeah, from this. There's a there's one guy posted a picture of him doing a blood test under his parachute. It was really cool. While he's coming down. Yep, that's excellent. He taped his meter to his hand and checked his blood sugar was cool. Yeah. Dave, listen, when I was younger, I used to ride motorcycles. I've been 160 miles an hour on a motorcycle. So I'm not judging you. I'm just there's something about off the ground. That is it's my bridge too far. Like I also if you told me you wanted to go on a small plane. Like there have been people on here like, I don't know if you know, Oren Lieberman, he's a CNN. Reporter, he also has type one, he was on here. And he's like, he's like, we, it turns out, we live pretty close to each other. And he's like, you know, I'll take you up sometime. And so yeah, thanks. Guess All right. And I know that's funny. Dude, I grew up in the northeast, outside of Philadelphia. So right, yeah. And I'm still pretty close to you now. And if you were like, Oh, it's okay. I don't know. Do you think people either know right away that it's something they always wanted to do? Or they have zero interest in it? Yeah. It's really funny. No, it's It's, uh, it makes a lot of sense to me, actually. Anyway, I would see a therapist is my therapy. It's great. No, I hear that. You know what I wanted to ask you that I never did. And I was just wondering, did the the weed smoking continue through life? Or did you let go of it at some point? No, I let go of it. It just wasn't fit my lifestyle anymore. Also, I moved to Philadelphia, I lost a lot of contacts. And it was just I I had my life for it was just a immediate band aid that I needed. Yeah, a crutch to get me through. But you know, again, you're not on crutches your whole life. Right. So it was I use it for its purpose. And I mean, if it's at a party, yes, for sure. But I mean, very, I can tell you last time I spoke right. I should name this episode. Dave can't find weed in Philly, because that'd be pretty fun. To imagine it's pretty available. I'm sure. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that, that I should have asked you about? So some fun little facts. The FAA recently alluded that having a low blood sugar amplifies hypoxia. And for everyone out there, hypoxia is you know, your brain doesn't get enough oxygen. And you start acting funny. It's the closest thing that a non diabetic can feel to being low blood sugar. If you Google videos of military going through hypoxia training, it's like watching somebody with a blood sugar at 50 It's ridiculous. They can't put the the block in the right hole or they're giggling They don't know what to do. They can't touch their face, they can't touch their nose, right. And you know, as skydivers, that's something that we have to be very aware of hypoxia happens roughly above 14,000 feet, right? And we skydive at two and a half miles above the Earth, which is about 13. Five. So we kind of flirt with it. So if my blood sugar is anything but perfect, it's just added to the danger, which I avoid, like the plague. But two and a half. It's really interesting. Yeah, where's the where's Where's low orbit? Like, when do you leave? You know, when do you leave the planet? The atmosphere? We fly planes at jumbo jets. It's like 30,000 feet, right? So it's got to be higher than that. Huh? That's interesting. Would you ever do? I mean, this is kind of fanciful, but you know, would you would you do space travel

if it was available to you? I tell you what, I think be cool. Okay, so, yeah,

Felix by monitor is a skydiver. And he jumped from the outermost atmosphere of the Earth, there was borderline space. And that really opened up it was very significant because it proved that skydiving could be integrated in spaceflight. And that astronauts if something were to go absolutely wrong up there, they could technically skydive back to earth as long as they got within the orbit of the Earth. I hope we never have to test that but it's incredibly I agree. Yeah. Would you would you want to go higher like where you would need oxygen assistance? So no, because I I've heard a lot of nightmare stories about that people passing out an airplane. I mean, they give you a can of oxygen for the halo jumps high altitude low opening. It's it's not something I want to I don't need to play with fire and then add more fire to it. You know, play with fire and add more fire to it. That's hilarious. All right, man. Well, I really appreciate you coming on and doing this. It's, it was really wonderful talking to you. I enjoyed hearing your story very much. Yeah, I even did some extra added stuff I'll throw in here. Even though I'm not on a pump, my pump, skydiver friends. Were telling me that it's standard practice to take pumps off for skydives, because some doctors warn that the lower atmospheric pressure may increase delivery of insulin, so they can get like a double dose of it. And T slim actually has an altitude bladder warning and it's only approved to an altitude of 10,000 feet. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, we have an episode about how to fly with a pump and that's around all that stuff. pressurizes the line and push it like you have to pump and it pushes the insulin through. People get experience lows and that highs when they're flying for reasons that are that are to do with the altitude. So that doesn't surprise me. No, I'm, I'm amazed you took notes. You don't seem like a note taker to me. Therefore, this was, um, secret note taker. I appreciate you being prepared. Yeah, I really did you have a good time? I did. I had a great time. I really appreciate you inviting me on. Excellent, nice. It's my pleasure. It was really nice for you to to reach out. And if you're looking for another Facebook group with people with diabetes in it, I have one with 20,000. So I'm on it. You're in there. Yes, sir. I like you. You're in the Facebook group. Don't particularly listen to the podcast, found the show through a friend. Will you say your friends first name? Ashley. Ashley. Well, Ashley, thank you for Ashley. Yeah, thank you, Ashley Tracy. All right. It just gonna blow up completely. Totally. Now, I really appreciate you doing this very much a happy new year. It's just just barely into January. So do you think you'll jump this year calendar year? How many? Yeah, just rough guess. About 50 times. That's a low number. Is it a warm weather activity. So I actually have a scouting event coming up on the 12th of February called freeze fest. And it's a little party that drops on puts together. We go out it's mainly to keep our licenses current because if you don't jump into a certain amount of time, you have to retake your license and everything. Okay, so they offer that and it's a huge dodgeball tournament for everyone. And we get together and have a good time playing dodgeball and skydiving. So February 12. I will be having my knees in the breeze again, and then I'll probably saddle it up until the warmer climate like May You dress differently in the cold weather.

You betcha. Yeah. I was gonna say it's gotta be so cold up there. Right. So cold so it's two

Scott Benner 1:14:37
degrees colder every 1000 feet you go out. Oh, and add a windchill of 120 mile an hour. It's a lot. Yeah, I'm not good with a cold on the ground actually. Honestly have a uterus a little snowy today. And I was I was already irritated. I woke up I was like, What is this when it's spring? It's my first thought. January. I'm wondering when spring is coming. Oh boy, you got a long winter how to do that. Yeah, I'm not going to enjoy the law anyway. All right. Can you hold on one second for me? Yeah, sure, thanks. A huge thanks to David for coming on the show and sharing his story with us. And a big thanks to Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitoring system, see if you're eligible for a free 10 day trial@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box. And of course, on the pod five, and on the pod dash are available at Omni pod.com Ford slash juicebox, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the on the pod dash. Go find out. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon. You know what I hope you're having a great summer I haven't said that. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're listening in a podcast app, like Apple podcasts or Spotify, please follow or subscribe to the show in that app. If you're listening online, please consider listening in an app. And if you love the show, and you just can't hold it inside me longer. Go tell a friend, a neighbor, a doctor, a nurse somebody else who you think might appreciate it. While you're at it. Don't forget right there in the podcast. If you're listening then right now, you can probably leave a five star rating and a review for the show. Already Thank you for listening, so I should probably just stop the recording. You know, ok... yea.