Scott Benner 7/10/25 Scott Benner 7/10/25

#1572 Smart Bites: Teaching Nutrition That Sticks

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Teaching real-life nutrition habits for kids, teens, and adults—how to build healthy foundations and make better food choices without guilt or overwhelm.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox podcast.

Welcome to my nutrition series with Jenny Smith. Jenny and I are going to in very clear and easy to understand ways walk you from basic through intermediate and into advanced. Nutritional ideas, we're going to tie it all together with type one diabetes, talk about processed foods and how you can share these simple concepts with the people in your life, whether it's your children, other adults or even seniors, besides being the person you've heard on the bold beginnings and Pro Tip series and so much more. Jennifer Smith is a person living with type one diabetes for over 35 years. She actually holds a bachelor's degree in Human Nutrition and biology from the University of Wisconsin. She's a registered and licensed dietitian, a certified diabetes educator. She's a trainer on all kinds of pumps and CGM she's my friend, and I think you're going to enjoy her thoughts on better eating. My diabetes Pro Tip series is about cutting through the clutter of diabetes management to give you the straightforward, practical insights that truly make a difference. This series is all about mastering the fundamentals, whether it's the basics of insulin dosing adjustments or everyday management strategies that will empower you to take control. I'm joined by Jenny Smith, who is a diabetes educator with over 35 years of personal experience, and we break down complex concepts into simple, actionable tips. The Diabetes Pro Tip series runs between Episode 1001 1025 in your podcast player, or you can listen to it at Juicebox podcast.com by going up into the menu. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Today's episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contour next.com/juicebox this episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by the twist a ID system powered by tide pool that features the twist loop algorithm, which you can target to a glucose level as low as 87 Learn more at twist.com/juicebox, that's twist with two eyes.com/juicebox. Get precision insulin delivery with a target range that you choose at twist.com/juicebox. That's twi i st.com/juicebox, this episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes and their mini med 780 G system designed to help ease the burden of diabetes management. Imagine fewer worries about missed boluses or miscalculated carbs thanks to meal detection technology and automatic correction doses, learn more and get started today at Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox Jenny, hey, this is the last part of the nutrition series. Yay. I appreciate this. This is this is going very well. I believe. What are we going to finish with today? It says teaching approaches for different age groups. Oh, okay,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:24
yeah. I mean, the idea here is to take all of the things that we've kind of brought forth already, right, and have an idea for how to bring that into people's day to day use based on where they are in age or age group, or where they are in life, with different types of variables, right?

Scott Benner 3:50
This really is the most, oddly enough, the most difficult part of this whole thing, right? Like, now you've got all the tools and you understand what it is you're supposed to be doing. Like, how is it like, I actually go do that every day? Right? Right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:03
Yeah, correct. And what was I mean when I when I kind of came up with the modules, right, the ideas of how to move through this. Do you remember what I told you as to why, like, if I wasn't being a diabetes educator? Do you remember what I told you I would do outside of that?

Scott Benner 4:18
I don't remember the exact con i know you, I know you would rather lean into your nutrition background. Like, I know that that's a thing you would really not rather, but that's the thing you really enjoy. Like, so it is. It's a passion of yours, too. Eating, well,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:31
it is. And I would have liked, if I chose a different path, I would have done it kind of in the concept of what we're going to talk about now, because, as we stated early on, people really don't have a good concept of nutrition, and then how that impacts their growing development endeavors through life, right? What you put in your body makes a big difference. But if I was going to do something different, it would be. Going back and creating a program that delves into school education, in nutrition, and so, you know, our first kind of category is like, kids, right? Kids Elementary, teaching them basic starting, let's say kindergarten, and you're not going to teach physiology of something, something organ in your body at that age, but you have to have a starting place. And so all the things that we've talked about so far, the food groups and why they're important, and the different micronutrients and things that go into them, and the benefit of eating balanced nutrition, you can teach that in a really easy way to kiddos, right? You can teach them. I used to with schools do some education. I taught eat the rainbow Okay, right? And one of the recipes that I would bring to for the kids to take home and share with their parents is Rainbow pizza, right? You may not even make the crust, but you know, a store bought kind of crust and what goes on the pizza? You have to have a minimum of three colorful vegetables, either on the pizza or on the plate on the side. So if you teach kids the value of what is that, that's balance, yeah, right. You have all the food groups there, but a wealth of that coming from really colorful food, which what kid doesn't like to color? I mean, maybe there are some of them, but Right, it engages them in a way that's at their level.

Scott Benner 6:27
And you know, I know this isn't really what we're talking the way we're talking about this, but it's a life skill that it's not taught anymore. It's really interesting that you're on today, because yesterday I was talking on a recording that I made with somebody else. And hopefully you'll hear or I said, we don't really teach people life skills anymore. And in middle school, I learned to sew. I learned to work with wood, I learned to work with metal. I learned to cook, you know, like, I learned how to balance my checkbook, you know, you think, like, ah, checkbooks. Nobody keeps temp. I learned how to keep track of my money. No one teaches you that stuff anymore, and my daughter will say stuff to me, like, I mean, there's a I don't understand episode. I think it's I don't understand money. And she's a really lovely, thoughtful, bright person, right? So the point is, is, if somebody would have taken five seconds to explain her checkbook to her, she might understand better the idea of money coming out. And maybe if somebody would grab a kid and say, Hey, you're little, so let's talk about it this way. Colorful vegetables, these are important, right? And then you become like, you know, we always talk about, I mean, I just put up a series about habit building. It's not that easy to build a habit after you have a bad habit, right? It's a lot easier to build one before you have one, you know, correct? Yeah, absolutely.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:42
And that's that's why starting young becomes very important. And as the dietitian that I am, as I've said before, I've worked really hard to encourage my kids to understand food, teaching them how to read a food label, right from little on when they go to the grocery store. As hard as it is to track kids around a grocery store, man, they can learn a lot if you let them ask questions about things like I always let them pick, especially from like the produce area. Pick something new once a week, right? Pick something odd, something weird. We'll figure it out. And if you don't like it, it's okay, but we learn something new, right? Yeah, and I think that that's easy to do. Little kids are curious about so many things, and if we answer their questions, and in this nutrition specific kind of category, you might learn something too from answering their question that you didn't know the answer to, while also fostering, as you said, a little bit more understanding of where does wellness come from, and it comes from understanding pieces that unless you really go to school at a very upper level high school and then definitely college, if that's your track, you will learn about it. If it's not, what does High School offer? One, one health course, yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 9:01
It's, it's how not to get pregnant, basically. And then, yeah, what happens to you,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:05
how your body works at a very general level. This is, you know, what to avoid, blah, blah, blah, none of it, unless you go into maybe Home Ec, which, again, is now an elective. You have to choose to take it. You're not going to learn how to stitch a hole in your sock, and you're not going to learn how to boil water. There was somebody in my freshman on my freshman floor in college, who I was in the kitchen doing something we had, like a community kitchen. She's like, I don't know. It's not doing anything. She just had water in a pot. She was making macaroni and cheese. And I was like, Well, you know, to get the water to boil, you got to turn she didn't even heat it. No, oh, she had it on there. But warm, like, the heat was that, like, warm? I was like, Yeah, you gotta turn it up a little bit more. The water's gotta actually bubble. The

Scott Benner 9:52
pasta was in a sauna. You're telling me. It was like, Oh, it's lovely in here. And that's a person who, like, is how old?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:00
Yeah, right. I mean, she had to be 817, 18. It was freshman year in college, right? And right there, my brain was like, I don't understand how you, like you made it into college, like somebody admitted you to college,

Scott Benner 10:13
and you don't know how to your point is, somebody could have definitely taught her how to do that. Yeah, right. No, no. And thinking like ahead, you know, you have a little kid there. I mean, people argue all the time. Is it nature or nurture? How somebody talks out there turns out, and maybe it's a little of both, right? But everything your kid thinks, whether you realize it or not, because it's hard, because life is busy, and everything comes from the things that are mostly said in the house and then things that are set outside of the house or in their friend group. Yeah? Imagine if in your house you were talking about, you know, we eat this way because it feeds your body, and we want you to be, you know, healthier when you're older and strong. And like, you love sport, like, it's such an easy time to carrot and stick a kid, right? Like, you know, absolutely, yeah, Mom, I want to be a professional baseball player, awesome. Eat this carrot, you know, like, literally, yeah, you those are the Yes, yeah. You want to turn the TV on. And wherever you are in the country, you want to point and go see the guy playing first base. He eats his vegetables like that. It's such a simple time to, like, get them to do that. And it

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:16
is. And I like, let me say I like how you said it. From the approach of even little kids, let's say they love playing T ball. It moves into baseball, right? And you're teaching them along the way. You're you're feeding them, as an example, those really good things. You're bringing the carrots and peanut butter, or the carrots, or the celery and hummus, instead of like the bag of Doritos, to the game, right? You're teaching by example. But then it moves forward into that next sort of age group where they can really at a deeper understanding level. They can get it because of the things that there's,

Scott Benner 11:52
there's something flying in your room. Jenny, scared spider hanging right? Don't worry. Do you want to kick can you kill it, or do you need to get somebody?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:02
Oh, no, I'm all good. I don't love spider. Sorry. It came down right in front of my face. She got a piece of paper. She moved him off to the side. I didn't kill him. I try really hard, as much as not liking spiders, I try not to kill

Scott Benner 12:15
them. Oh, you should have seen. Listen to Jenny. Look what. She just didn't kill that spider. I know I dropped him on the floor. No, you all know, if that spider fell in front of me, here's what you would have heard. People would have been like, what happened? I'd be like, don't worry about it.

Unknown Speaker 12:29
Sorry. That interrupted.

Scott Benner 12:30
No. So even if they're playing T ball, you can tell them, Go ahead.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:35
Yeah, you can tell them those little bits of things that are, hey, you know this is going to give you lots more energy. You don't have to get into the nitty gritty of it at that age level. But hey, eat this, you know, eat the apple or along with peanut butter or whatever, because, you know what? Out on the field, you're going to be using a lot of energy. You're going to be running around, and you need something that's going to stay in your belly for a lot longer. That's going to give you some good energy so you can hit the ball farther than Bobby, yeah,

Scott Benner 13:05
you don't want to run out of gas while you're out there playing, right? That give them that idea of, like, you have a tank. It's a reserve, it's a battery called a battery. Like, listen, whatever is modern enough for you, right? Like, we need to charge up your battery so that when you're out there using it, you know, like, you don't run out. And the stronger your battery is, the faster you're going to run. And like, I mean, you can trick a kid into thinking they're running faster with new sneakers. Yeah, true. So now I'm the time to, like, trick them into taking care of themselves. My My question is, is that, if you're a parent who doesn't know these things, or you don't even eat that way yourself, that, to me, seems like probably worse the problem comes in, right? Like you know, today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the mini med 780 G system. The mini med 780 G automated insulin delivery system anticipates, adjusts and corrects every five minutes. Real world results show people achieving up to 80% time and range with recommended settings without increasing lows. But of course, Individual results may vary. The 780 G works around the clock, so you can focus on what matters. Have you heard about medtronics, extended infusion set. It's the first and only infusion set labeled for up to a seven day wear. This feature is repeatedly asked for, and Medtronic has delivered. 97% of people using the 780 G reported that they could manage their diabetes without major disruptions of sleep. They felt more free to eat what they wanted, and they felt less stress with fewer alarms and alerts you can't beat that. Learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes by visiting Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox the brand new twist insulin pump offers peace of mind with unmatched personalization. And allows you to target a glucose level as low as 87 there are more reasons why you might be interested in checking out twist, but just in case that one got you twist.com/juicebox, that's twist with two eyes.com/juicebox. You can target glucose levels between 87 and 180 it's completely up to you. In addition to precision insulin delivery that's made possible by twist design, twist also offers you the ability to edit your carb entries even after you've Bolus. This gives the twist loop algorithm the best information to make its decisions with, and the twist loop algorithm lives on the pump so you don't have to stay next to your phone for it to do its job. Twist is coming very soon. So if you'd like to learn more or get on the wait list, go to twist.com/juicebox. That's twist with two eyes.com/juicebox. Links in the show notes, links at Juicebox podcast.com.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:57
It is and not to. I mean, this is not to. This is not a judgment. This is not a faulty but it gives you the idea of, if you don't know it and you're hearing it, then do a little bit of research. I mean basic online, you can easily find what the nutrition needs of a child This age and this athletic level is, or your your age level, what, what should your meal content kind of look like? And as I was going to say, if you move from kind of Childhood, Elementary, more into the middle school, teen and then definitely, definitely high school. But even some teenagers that are middle school are doing sports at a level that is well beyond what I was doing at that age. Yep, and teaching them, then that sport has now become even more what they want, whether it's dancing or they are a pianist, and they have to have the energy to be able to play and really focus and everything, what you put in your body makes a very big difference on that right? We already discussed in terms of diabetes, role in this too, the more stable and the better managed your blood sugars are. Without all of the up down, kind of rocky roller coaster, you're also going to feel better in whatever endeavor you really want to be doing. But at the Teen level, there is a lot that is hard because there, there's a lot of social influence, right? You know, the teenagers are now out after school with friends, and they stop it. I mean, I see it, I pick my kids up at school. Sometimes we stop at the library. And the kids that walk from school where their parents are going to pick them up, at the library, they're, you know, they're at the ice cream shop, which is all on the corner by the library, and they bring the ice cream over and like, they're all on their own. So they're making their own decisions. But a lot of those decisions are social. Hey, let's go to the ice cream parlor. I've got $5 you know, whatever it is. So it becomes difficult to teach some of that at the age level, where you're now allowing your kids more independent decision, which means that in those I think we've talked about before, like 8020 kind of idea in eating right, that 20% might be the stuff that they do socially, the other 80% is the healthy, great stuff that you might be teaching them and doing at home, bringing to the games for them, so that they can see that there can be a balance,

Scott Benner 18:27
right? What you're shooting for is that they are probably going to go to the ice cream shop, but there are also going to be times that you'll see that same kid reach down and say, I'm going to eat a piece of a bell pepper here, instead of, like, right, a pretzel or something to that effect. I mean, Jenny, maybe if you start when they're younger, they'll be the kid in the teen group who's, like, I'm good, you know what I mean? Or, like, I'll have a little bit of, let me have some of yours and, but I'm gonna I had an apple in my bag. Like, wouldn't it be cool if your kid was the teen with an apple in their bag? Like, you know what I mean? Like, that'd be seriously, right? Like, like, yeah, yeah. And maybe that's how, you know, it's kind of unfair, because I understand Jenny's like, world view better than the rest of you do, because she's, like, nice Jenny here and everything. Like, not that you're not nice otherwise, about your world view, you know, like, somebody's got to be out in front and, like, somebody's got to be out there saying, like, I think this is what we should be doing, you know, like, right? There's nothing wrong with wanting to eat that way. And how can you make it so that they don't have that feeling of, Oh no, I'm different, or I don't want to be the one to speak up right? Now, I really would pre I'd rather have hummus. Like, do we have Huis or hummus somewhere? Right? There'll be one, one kid will have that feeling. Then, who knows how many other kids in that group are like, Yeah, I don't want this ice cream either. Like you don't know how crazy that could be happening. Let's sprinkle some of those kids out in the world and see what happens. Let your kids be the one that, yeah, Johnny Appleseed, that out there. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:51
it is, I think you bring in a good piece there. When we're talking to again, the grand majority of listeners have diabetes, which is enough. Other piece that adds the layer of different right? And as many good friends as you have and as much teaching as we do, to say, Hey, someone with diabetes can eat anything that they want. They understand at a deeper level how to navigate what that food is going to do in their body. But they could have the ice cream if they really want to. But then on the opposite of that, you know, Jenny comes always with the Apple or the carrot sticks or the celery, and is the idea then that you're projecting that I can't have the ice cream, and that becomes something you have to verbalize, yeah, and that's hard again, as a teen, as an adult, we're most people, I think, are pretty good about just standing up and voicing, you know, no, I choose to do this. But as a team level, it's a hard thing to do because there's so many layers to social stuff.

Scott Benner 20:54
Yeah, and there is, I mean, there are, obviously, there are more things to consider. There's, you know, eating disorders are correct, more prevalent among type ones, and you don't want them to have that feeling of, like, oh, like, you know, I can't have the ice cream because I have diabetes. It's hard because you want to say, like, eat this thing. It's healthy for you. But I, I'm guessing, depending on people's personalities, you might not want to say, eat this thing. It'll make your diabetes easier. Because, right? Like, because, Oh, great. Now I'm the guy eating the broccoli while everybody else is having the ice cream because I've got diabetes. Like, boom, that's a quick path to nobody eating broccoli, because there's a psychological component too. I mean, that's why, what you're saying about starting early, I think just makes, like so much sense, like, make it a thing before they have a chance to make something else that thing contour next.com/juicebox that's the link you'll use to find out more about the contour, next gen blood glucose meter. When you get there, there's a little bit at the top. You can click right on blood glucose monitoring. I'll do it with you. Go to meters, click on any of the meters. I'll click on the Next Gen, and you're going to get more information. It's easy to use and highly accurate smart light provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels, and of course, with Second Chance sampling technology, you can save money with fewer wasted test strips. As if all that wasn't enough, the contour next gen also has a compatible app for an easy way to share and see your blood glucose results. Contour, next.com/juicebox and if you scroll down at that link, you're going to see things like a Buy Now button. You could register your meter after you purchase it. Or what is this? Download a coupon, oh, receive a free contour next gen blood glucose meter. Do tell contour, next.com/juicebox head over there. Now get the same accurate and reliable meter that we use correct, yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:50
And then once we get into this age, and I think even into, like, more of the adult population, to what you have learned, it makes a difference in your understanding of then what you can do with your body, right? There are a lot of teens, even into college age, that are doing some type of exercise or activity, right, some type of a sport, and what you put in definitely makes a major impact on your performance. Knowing that from I've coached only two. I had two major league baseball players that I worked with who had type two diabetes, not type one, but learning in, again, a major league type of experience, learning what they eat on the I mean, it's atrocious food. It really and their time frames and everything. So if you can start younger, if your child, at some point gets to that level of play, what you've taught them now in understanding their body's need for nutrients and what that does in performance, it will lend a long way into adulthood and what they end up doing? Yeah,

Scott Benner 24:01
I'd like to relate something back to to your children from that too. And I have a little bit of perspective here, because my son played pretty, you know, competitively for a really long time. You could feed a 1920 21 year old boy garbage and rocks. And if they're that active, for most of them, they look awesome, right? Yes, but, and again, there's so many times this podcast I'm like, I hope people I know don't hear this, but I can picture the group of boys that my son played baseball with as younger kids, right? And back then, they were lean and healthy and like the fastest kids you knew and the strongest kids you knew, and they are not that as adults now, a lot of them, you don't realize how the vibe is. I can eat anything I want. I think people can feel like a superhero, right? Like, look, it doesn't matter what I put in. I'm in great shape. I throw the ball harder than everybody else, blah, blah, blah, that piece of like, I'm so active, like my body is. Fighting off this bad food, I don't think it hits you, and then you become a little older, and things get soft, and you slow down and boom, that happens so quickly. But to relate it back to kids, like little kids, they're sort of in a similar situation. Then, like, you know, they're young, and they're growing so quickly. Like almost any calorie you throw in there, the body doesn't even have time to store it as fat. It's like, I need it for this. I need it for that. It's not a healthy build. You might be building

Jennifer Smith, CDE 25:27
a shaky foundation, Yes, Scott, a shaky, I

Scott Benner 25:32
don't know, building. It's gonna fall over in the wind one day when they're 35 or 40, but, and you can't see it while it's happening. It's so similar to diabetes, yes, right, that you can be doing something that is just fundamentally not right for you and is not going to be healthy, but you're not going to find out for 20 years, till the wind blows and your thing falls over and you think, oh, I should have probably made that foundation with more vegetables and fruits and things like that, right? So when that's true, Jenny, then I think that, like as a parent, it becomes more difficult to extol the virtues of what you're doing when, let's be honest, and when Doritos taste better than broccoli. And I realized, by the way, I realized, while we're making this, this whole series, Doritos must be Frito Lay must be thrilled, because during like, said it a million not just us, but I've noticed that in any one of these conversations is happening out in the zeitgeist, people reach for Doritos as the example every time. And I realized, I think it's because they're awesome. It's because it's the thing everybody thinks of. They're like, You know what? I love a Dorito Yeah, it's tough. It's, I think I've said this in nine it's like taking a vitamin. Like, you don't take a vitamin the next day feel better. So, like, you know, and by the time you feel better, you don't know that you feel better,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:52
because it's been slowly progressing forward, right?

Speaker 1 26:56
Yeah. It's like, how many people do I interview? And I'm like, How did you feel when your a 1c was like, that. They were like, I was fine. How am I going your ANC was almost nine. You felt good. I felt great. Like, how do you feel now? They go, I feel great. Your body just doesn't know you don't remember that. So it's up to

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:10
you. It's unique in watching and working. Eons ago, I worked in bariatric nutrition, so those who had, like, bariatric surgeries and everything, and there were, if you're able to follow somebody so closely on that journey of change, they do have a reflection. And I think other other people too, at some point can make those considerations and say, I can remember, in looking back, I liked to do this, but I was constantly out of breath, or I couldn't keep up, and people were willing to wait for me. And now I can see the difference. I feel really good. And I don't know if it's a good compared to I thought I was feeling good.

Scott Benner 27:55
Oh, I think it is. It's a milestone, and you hit it like, I mean, listen, you know the last time I was out of breath? I don't know either, but I bet you it was about 30 pounds ago. Like, that is not a thing that I don't run up the stairs and go, Oh, my God, I'm not huffing and puffing, right? Exercising now, I start exercising, and when I'm done, I'm like, oh, I should probably exercise harder, because I don't even feel this right? Yeah. And I know it would have killed me before, but I'm older, and we have these conversations and this stuff's in my head, right? Like, so if that's why I'm thinking about it once in a while, you know, I guess you do have to make it like in the forefront of your mind, like you put effort into the way you eat. It's not effortless, right? Correct?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:35
I make choices all of the time, and while there are choices that are just the regular, the regular on the list, and it's, I don't really think about them anymore, but there's always a choice, we go out for for a meal, and there's always still that, like background, if we're eating out of I never have this, right? There's always that idea, I would never make this at home. I'll try this kind of a thing, right? But in general, my home based stuff is it's still a conscious, conscious effort to make sure that what comes in is as much good as it possibly can be. And when we're, you know, talking about like now I'm clearly an adult right moving through life from starting kids with the right information about food and then building on it once they get to adulthood, that foundation isn't shaky internally. There isn't that. You know, with diabetes, we have the understanding of prevention now or taking care now is long term going to keep us healthier? I think we all understand that, or have heard that in some way or another, but if we take the same thing from a food angle, and we feed in over time, once we get to adulthood with healthier intake and management, our adult body is. So much. It's got so much preventative piece in it for chronic condition, most chronic conditions are going to have a build up over your life, right? They're not just like, oh gosh, I'm 65 and I now have heart disease. No, no. That's not how it started, like it started eons ago, right?

Scott Benner 30:23
It started when you were four years old. Somebody gave you correct, you know, a potato chip instead of, yeah, you know, something that would have been more valuable you you were building yourself that whole time for them and to get to that later age, you know. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, you know, who doesn't eat, well, it's my mom or my dad. Like, you know, like, I think it's easy to talk a little kid into eating well before an older person, like, that's a lifetime of, No, I'm okay. And this is, you know, how I eat, yeah, but they're getting sick as well. I mean, listen, you know, my mom eventually dies, you know, from, you know, cancer, cancer. I don't know how that all happens, but I can tell you that I don't think she was thrilled with her decision to have a pizza steak on Friday nights, you know, once she got sick and she was 80. I think it's funny you think, like, oh, was, you know, I think my mom was like, 82 when she passed away, or almost 82 and, you know, you say that when you're 30, like, I'll be happy if I make it 82 my mom was not excited to die. She wasn't like, Oh, it's okay. I've been here long enough. She didn't have one of those thoughts, you know, and you don't. I just think that no matter where you are along your path, I'd hate to see you having that feeling of like, oh, it's like, it feels too late. Because I, first of all, I don't actually think you know most of the time it's not actually too late, but that feeling that it's too late can almost propel you in the other direction,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:43
correct? Well, I've done it this way for so long, and now I've got this and what's the difference? What? What's it going to change? And there are, as we get older, it is harder, it's harder to build muscle, it's harder to maintain the bone health in our body. Again, starting younger and building on that can help you get to a place where, when you're 85 you can still carry your groceries in, you know, and up three floors if you needed to, and you don't need assistance to take your socks off and all that's that's what we're building, too. But if you are an older person already, you know, adults, even into older adulthood, there are still some things that would definitely be beneficial from an inflammation level and everything.

Scott Benner 32:26
And I'll tell you that I'm positive that if I live 20 or 30 more years, they're going to be better than they would have been if I said, without your changes, it's just, it's, there's no way it's, there's no way that that's not true. You're not going to talk a five year old in the believing like you know when they're 20. This is important, because they can't imagine that. No, our Arden is almost 21 and she said to me, in a very, very somber moment, she saw an older person crossing the street, and she said, I can't believe I'm gonna be old one day. And she was like, really, like, existentially rocked by the idea, you know. And I was like, I know, I said, I can't believe I'm this old either. I really can't that's the thing you're fighting against. So that's why I think you need short term, like, I think you're just great. Like, it's T ball. Let's do better at T ball. Let's be better at this. Let's, you know, let's try to, like, have even better. You have to measure them against other people. If you don't want to just like, let's see how success let's see how successful you can be at this. Like we want when this happens, you know, like, Did you have trouble staying awake in school today? You know, maybe that's because we're not eating as well as we could. Here's a thing we could do that make that better for you. Don't like being tired at school. Nobody wants that. You know what? I mean? Like, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:38
Absolutely. And I think you know, my my personal for it not only has to do with my diabetes management, but also, like, I worked really hard to have healthy kids. Like pregnancy with diabetes is it is not for the faint of heart, and I see that I worked so hard that I've got healthy kids, but I also don't like I lost my dad when he was 65 and he was too young. He had kidney cancer, again, some lifestyle things, but more just work environment. I think was a bigger piece there for him. But like, I miss him dearly, and he never got to meet my kids, right? I want to age with my children. I want to see them grow up. I want to be there when they've got adult questions for me to help them navigate. And so it's kind of like, I think it's maybe selfish. Oh no, you don't things that I do for me are because I really, like, I want to be around, yeah,

Scott Benner 34:39
you don't want them to feel the way you feel right now when you're speaking about your father, yeah, you want their story to be different. My mom was like jumping around and SPRI, Listen, I'm not gonna say the person's name, but I just saw a person I know personally who's in their 60s celebrating their mom's 92nd birthday, and the mom's in the kitchen, cooking and. She's like, this woman couldn't be more thrilled that her mom's still around. You know what I mean? So I know some people are listening now, like, I listen. I got a countdown. I'm just couple people in my life. I can't wait for the game. Get out of here. You can say whatever you want. Like, this is this was hard to do. It was hard for me to say to Jenny, I want to put a nutrition module into this podcast, because I don't do myself any favors with people who are going to see this as being, like, spoken to, like, oh, you eat poorly or right? I'll lose more people than I'll gain with this. But I just thought this was seriously important to put out, and it is, and this conversation is important to happen. It really is. I grew up not eating well, and I look back, and my mom didn't eat well either. I don't know why. It doesn't even matter, like it's what happened. And now I have a length of time, a lifetime, to look back. I don't think her outcomes were what they could have been if she would have built her foundation differently. And I'm still scared No one

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:59
better. Yeah, that's the difference, right? She didn't know better, yeah? Like,

Scott Benner 36:04
if my mom was here, this is the stuff I would be saying to her, right? Like, and so I'm not, I'm not doing this because it's a podcast or because it's anything. I'm doing this because I have somehow gathered a large group of you together, and it now feels like important to tell you that you know there's more to this than just like counting your carbs and pushing the button so they're right. And you

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:25
know, we know that within all of this discussion, I think maybe a back end piece that's even subconscious is I understand I can hear somebody saying, I understand this, but gosh, the time it's going to take to figure this out. I don't have any more time in my life, right for those that have some monetary ability, there are really good ways to do some quick, healthy meals that are those shipped in right types of things. You can pick the components of the meals. They're even carb counted and nutrient facts for you and everything. I understand that's a monetary I don't do that because it's costly. It truly is. I can't afford to do that myself, but you can meal prep, even healthy, inexpensive, quality food at home. Yes, it does take time. I will not, you know, I certainly agree with the consideration of where am I going to fit the time in? You know, use the help of your kiddos if they're old enough. I mean, my kids chop vegetables for me all the time, like, you know, use them.

Scott Benner 37:31
I had two kids growing up. They played sports. I'm not saying I that there's like, a ton of free time all over the place, but I can tell you that one of the things I know is true after living longer is that you can put your effort where it matters to you, and you know, so if this matters to you, I think you'd figure out a way to somehow improve it. You don't have to end up being, you know, I almost said Jack LaLanne, oh, gosh, that's so funny. I just saw a review with somebody the other day. It says, I love that podcast. I don't understand any of his references. But anyway, there was this bodybuilding guy in the 50s, or, I don't know exactly when, like, you don't have to be him, like, right? Like, your Peck doesn't have to look perfect, and everything doesn't have to be exactly right. I'm not saying that you know you need to do that. Like, you know those bro podcast guys, like, it doesn't have to be every ounce of your life and everything. I'm telling you that, from my personal experience, not a very big adjustment, could end up paying you back in a really big way, which might make more mental clarity, which actually could make more time for you at some point. And then maybe you just have to have a very long view of things like this. And no differently, by the way, than taking care of your diabetes, like right? Those are the same things I hear back with different words I can't listen to. The Pro Tip series has 26 episodes, and when am I going to listen to that? Well, you're gonna spend your whole life not bolusing for your food. Well, like, maybe, like, jam this in there, put it on while you're in the shower. Or, what? Right, right? And now you can't cook a carrot while you're in the shower. But Hey, that girl in college could have because she didn't need the water to be though, or she made pasta there for

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:01
those, for those who are old enough. And remember Seinfeld, remember Kramer making the salad in the

Scott Benner 39:06
shower? I don't, but that's awesome. It's such a funny episode. Listen, this is it, right? Like, you've got, if you're listening to this, you very likely love somebody or have diabetes, right? And you probably have Hashimotos too, or something else, like you're in the game now, like, you're not getting out of it. So, like, you know, right? I don't know, good luck. I know this is difficult to talk about. It's just not easy for me to want to bring up. And you know, when people say, like, if I ever had a million dollars, like, people go, like, I'd open a bookstore. I'd do this, I do that. I think Jenny would go around tell you all, like, how to eat.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:38
Yeah, it would be a lot of fun. It would be a lot of fun. Honestly, it would be a lot of fun to go through. I was like, I love grocery shopping. I'm also a people watcher. I think I told you that before, right? But I think it would be really fun to be able to for those of who are really interested and really just don't even know where to start, like. I'll come to your house like, clean out your give you a grocery list. Give you 10 starting recipes. And you know what I mean?

Scott Benner 40:07
Like, I had an idea for you while we were talking, but I won't say it on here, because I don't want to pin you down. But anyway, listen to all of you. Great luck. My point of saying that was that even Jenny behind the scenes, we were talking about that was a gosh, I hope people don't think we're telling them that they're doing a bad job. That's not what I want to tell them, not the intent. This is a hard thing to talk about. If I went right now to chat GPT and said, Hey, tell me the 10 things that people argue about online food would be 1234, and five. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:35
right, yeah, yep, just good luck. Well, I appreciate that you did this

Scott Benner 40:40
sword like people are, like, look at him trying to act like he's being selfless at the end. I know you don't think this, but I've done other stuff like this that I knew was going to get me dinged, and I took, I've taken some hits over the years by saying, Don't be sorry, is what it is. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to not say it. And like, you know, I I feel like we've built a pretty great community here, and we should take some bigger swings and, you know, and say things that other people aren't talking about. So there it is. Thank you. Thank you.

The episode you just enjoyed was sponsored by the twist a ID system powered by tide pool. If you want a commercially available insulin pump with twist loop that offers unmatched personalization and precision for peace of mind. You want twist, twist.com/juicebox, having an easy to use and accurate blood glucose meter is just one click away. Contour next.com/juicebox That's right. Today's episode is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Thanks for tuning in today, and thanks to Medtronic diabetes for sponsoring this episode. We've been talking about medtronics, mini med 780 G system today, an automated insulin delivery system that helps make diabetes management easier day and night. Whether it's their meal detection technology or the Medtronic extended infusion set, it all comes together to simplify life with diabetes. Go find out more at my link, Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox. Okay, well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me. Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram. Tiktok. Oh gosh, here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't want to miss, please. You not know about the private group. You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 51,000 members in it. They're active, talking about diabetes, whatever you need to know there's a conversation happening in there right now, and I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say hi. The podcast contains so many different series and collections of information that it can be difficult to find them in your traditional podcast app. Sometimes. That's why they're also collected at Juicebox podcast.com go up to the top, there's a menu right there. Click on series, defining diabetes. Bold beginnings, the Pro Tip series, small sips, Omnipod, five ask Scott and Jenny, mental wellness, fat and protein, defining thyroid, after dark, diabetes, variables, Grand Rounds, cold, wind, pregnancy, type two, diabetes, GLP, meds, the math behind diabetes, diabetes myths and so much more. You have to go check it out. It's all there and waiting for you, and it's absolutely free. Juicebox podcast.com, Hey, what's up? Everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way recording doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you wrong way recording.com, you got a podcast? You want somebody to edit it? You want rob you?

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Scott Benner 7/9/25 Scott Benner 7/9/25

#1571 After Dark: Scared Straight

Brock, 29, turned his life around after prison and heroin, now thriving with T1D and love.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back, friends. You are listening to the Juicebox Podcast.

Brock 0:14
Hello. My name is Brock West behest, and I am a type one diabetic, and I have been for about 10 years. If

Scott Benner 0:24
this is your first time listening to the Juicebox Podcast and you'd like to hear more, download Apple podcasts or Spotify, really, any audio app at all, look for the Juicebox Podcast and follow or subscribe. We put out new content every day that you'll enjoy. Want to learn more about your diabetes management. Go to Juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and look for bold Beginnings The Diabetes Pro Tip series and much more. This podcast is full of collections and series of information that will help you to live better with insulin. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. This episode is sponsored by the tandem Moby system, which is powered by tandems, newest algorithm control, iq plus technology. Tandem Moby has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows, and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g7 the same CGM that my daughter wears. Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox,

Brock 1:47
hello. My name is Brock Westby. Hess and I am a type one diabetic, and I have been for about 10 years, and I live in Wisconsin, sure enough, you know, place that gets plenty of crap from you.

Scott Benner 2:03
What you think I give Wisconsin crap?

Brock 2:05
I mean, you know, from what I've heard, yeah, so, you know, I listen to the podcast in a I have been listening to it in a chronological order, and I'm on episode like 666 right now. And yeah,

Scott Benner 2:24
Brock, let me ask you, how old are you right now? I'm 2929 Okay, so you were diagnosed around 19, yep, just out of high school. Maybe,

Brock 2:34
no. So I was going to say, you know, if, yeah, we can just jump in that way. I graduated high school at 17, not because I was super smart or anything. My birthday is in September. Okay, so it just worked out that way. I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school, and my mom ended up finding a program out in Colorado called Ski Area operations, and I'm a big have, have been my whole life. My mom and dad got me started, like when I was two, or something like that. That's what they tell me. I don't, I don't, you know, there's no pictures. They can't prove it. Well, no, there are, there are pictures. I don't know. You know exactly how old I look in them, but young, you're

Scott Benner 3:20
making me think of when my wife is telling stories and the kids are like, that's not what happened. You're missing the I always wonder whose memory is right, or if maybe nobody's is or, you know, but, but so, so you moved to Colorado right after high school when you were 17.

Brock 3:35
Yep. So I moved out to Colorado. You know, my parents helped me move out there. So I lived in Leadville, Colorado, which is the highest incorporated city in North America, which is a, you know, just a fun fact. What does that mean? No, highest elevated, highest incorporated city with the elevation being 10,200 feet of the city that I was living in, okay, but then, in more ways than one, just because, you know, we easily going, you know, everybody's smoking weed out. Nice, interesting. Everyone, everyone's and I was, I was one of the ones smoking the weed. So

Scott Benner 4:12
did you pick up weed in Colorado, or had you found it in Wisconsin?

Brock 4:16
Uh, no, I mean, I've done some, and I've dabbled in Wisconsin, like when I graduated high school, I did it with a couple of my buddies. And,

Scott Benner 4:24
you know, but you turned pro in Colorado,

Brock 4:27
yeah, right, right. I was, you know, doing it every day out there.

Scott Benner 4:31
Can I ask just when you move to a place like that, at that age, are you on your own? Are you living with people? How do you work that out?

Brock 4:37
Yeah, so, I mean, because I was going to college, I was living in the dorms. So, you know, I got out there and met my roommates. And so it was a, like a technical college. It's a rather small so, you know, you get to meet all the, you know, everybody else that's coming in. And I wasn't out there completely by myself. You know, I guess I was as far as, like, I didn't have family or anything out there, okay, after they brought me out there, you know, and helped me get settled, then they came back to Wisconsin,

Scott Benner 5:09
right? I got it, okay, I, for some reason, I thought you just, at first, I thought you just moved there to, like, work at a ski resort. And I was like, oh, that's crazy, but you went to school and you got that job at the same time. Yeah, I gotcha. I gotcha. Okay, are you out there in school when you're diagnosed?

Brock 5:24
No. So I was back my second year after my second year out there. I came back to Wisconsin, and I was doing construction with my dad. Started the summer at like 160 pounds. By the end of the summer I was like 130 pounds. And, you know, just urinating all the time, typical signs and symptoms. And you know, we were thinking maybe it was gonna like a UTI. So went and got the urine checked, and, you know, came back with blood sugar. I don't Unfortunately, I've hit my head. I've cracked my head open a couple times, you know, through my life with, you know, doing dumb stuff. Anyways, I don't remember everything, but I don't remember, you know, exactly how high my blood sugar was when I got brought

Scott Benner 6:09
in Brock. Let me ask you a question. Off the top of your head, what are the different ways you've cracked your head

Brock 6:14
open? Snowboarding, when I was learning to snowboard, I was coming down bunny hill doing like a falling leaf, which is just like side to side on your heel edge, and ended up catching, like an ice chunk that was in front of me that I didn't see, and fell forward, and the board came around and caught me in the back of the head. Okay, yeah, yeah. So that's one way. And then let's say, on a trip in, I think it was in California, my aunt actually was shutting a minivan trunk, and I was like, still in the area, and it caught the corner in my head, and I guess all out of order. Anyways, I think the first time it happened was at school, at recess. It was kind of instant karma, because I was going to get on the monkey bars. There was somebody like, already in line to do it, but I, like, budged them, and I went and jumped, grabbed I tried grabbing on, and like, slipped and fell backwards and caught my head on, you know, one of the bars. Have

Scott Benner 7:15
you ever been concussed? Have you been out? Ah, I No, I don't believe so. Okay, you just whack your head a lot. Yeah, okay. Like, you're, like, your own personal Whack a Mole. It's interesting. Okay, so you're back home working. Can I ask just briefly, like, Did you complete the course in Colorado?

Brock 7:34
No, so it was a two year program, and are you asking if I ever did or, I guess, regardless of the question, no, I I never ended up completing it. Okay, I was like a couple credits shy of getting it. I There was like one main class that I didn't pass that I need to, you know, go back out and finish.

Scott Benner 7:52
But So basically, you went to Colorado, smoked a pillowcase full of weed, and your parents, like, get home and work construction.

Brock 8:01
Is that? What happened? No, I was coming back in the summers, you know, I guess probably because of, like, what you were saying, that just because I didn't really have, I mean, and you know, like, I had friends and stuff from college, but you know, just because I knew, you know, I knew I had work lined up back here in the summer.

Scott Benner 8:19
Okay, okay, all right, so when you're diagnosed, who figures it out? Like, do you come to your parents and say something's wrong? Do they notice? How does that work?

Brock 8:27
Yeah. I mean, I was gonna say, I think it was mostly me, you know, I'm sure they, they noticed as well. I definitely, you know, was like, the amount that I'm paying and everything this is something's gotta be off,

Scott Benner 8:37
something's genuinely wrong, yeah, so you told them that you got. What do you go to a doctor or hospital? Yeah, yep. And do you remember much about the diagnosis? Were you in the hospital? Long were you like, was it shocking to you? Do you remember how you felt?

Brock 8:51
I don't remember, like, the exact while I was in there or anything, but I know if this is how I felt exactly when it happened. But you know, I was like, I'm 19 years old. Like, this is, this is bull, you know, right? There's no way that, you know, I'm invincible. I'm 19 years old, and, you know, nothing can touch me. I mean, besides for me cracking my head open. But that hasn't done, you know, anything, besides for some short term memory loss. All

Scott Benner 9:17
right? I think so. Yeah, is it possible you hit your head so hard, your pancreas not working? I don't

Brock 9:23
know. I mean, it's a possibility, yeah, so I my mom, I think one time, mentioned a theory that she had I and so my my parents ended up getting a divorce. When I was I was like, a junior in high school, okay, I would have been a couple years, you know, prior to me getting diabetes, but I know that you know high stress things sometimes lead to it stop, stopping of your pancreas, your

Scott Benner 9:48
mom trying to blame your dad for your your diabetes. I mean, is there other autoimmune in your life, in your family, other people? Type one diabetes. Do you have hypothyroidism, anything like that?

Brock 10:03
Not any, really, that I know of. I was doing some digging on that, you know, before coming on here, because I know you like to ask that question. And my grandma told me that one of her cousins had diabetes. I'm not sure you know who that was exactly, or if it was type one or type two? Yeah, besides for that that you know, just me. Now,

Scott Benner 10:26
let's go back for a second about what you're calling me crapping on Wisconsin. Is it because? Is it because I made fun of my sister in law for taking basically like, fake popcorn and dipping it in caramel and calling it food, is that? Is

Brock 10:42
that? Why? That's funny. I just heard that episode not too long ago. Okay, no, it's just, you know, it's because it's so cold you don't care for the cold, yeah. But, you know, I'm a winter sports enthusiast, you know, I like skiing and snowboarding, and, you know, that's,

Scott Benner 10:59
you use that phrase, you don't care for the cold. I think that my brain goes, Wait, there are people who care for the cold.

Brock 11:07
Okay, no, I'm going to be completely honest with you, people don't care for the cold, but we enjoy what we can do in, you know, because of the cold, because of the snow that it produces, you know, you know, the best days that I've ever had were, you know, like, sunny, Blue Bird, Colorado powder days you get hit with like, 12 inches of snow, and the next day it would be like 40 degrees sunshine,

Scott Benner 11:33
snow still on the mountain. Yeah, Brock, listen, then, let's re say this. Then, like, because what I think you're telling me is that you put up with the cold because you like snowshoes. Well, yeah, no one likes the cold. That's my point. No one heads outside when it's 20 degrees and goes, Oh, awesome.

Brock 11:56
20 is not bad. Shorts. At 20 degrees, yeah. So, so, you know, we've, we've emailed a couple times. I sent you my motorcycle. So I, I ride bikes, um, I, the reason I bring this up is just because this last winter, it was like negative one degree out, and I rode my motorcycle over to the ski hill, saying it was like, negative one degrees and, yeah, no, I rode over to

Scott Benner 12:26
listen to this. I used to ride 12 months a year. Okay, yep, I did not have a car.

Brock 12:31
Oh, wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you know, because you it was mandatory for you, you know, it was the only

Scott Benner 12:37
mode. It was mandatory for me because I couldn't afford a car, mode of transportation. Yeah, for sure. So I used to get up in the morning, I'd start the bike. I'm not gonna lie to you, there were a few weeks of the year where some guy that I worked with would pick me up, because even he was like, Dude, you can't ride that motorcycle tomorrow. Like, so, like, but I'd get up in the morning start the bike. It would take forever for it to warm up. Yep, I'd stand inside, like, completely clad, you know what I mean, like just gloves, like everything, like I scarf around my helmet like an idiot, and then I would just run outside, get on the bike. I had like, a 20 minute ride, and I just tried to get there as quickly as I could. And by the time I got there, my hands were numb. My face really was terrible, but it was all worth it, because I made $5 an hour. Brock,

Brock 13:22
so it was all awesome, making that bank. It

Scott Benner 13:25
was piling up, sometimes $30 a day, okay? Chatter was flying everywhere. By the end of the week, some days I had $100 then I gave it away to pay for them, but what was I doing? I should have just sat at home. You've got your type one now. It's not a thing you're looking forward to. Obviously, you're 19. You're like, Hey, what the hell is going on? Your parents are split up. Are you living with one of them at your diagnosis?

Brock 13:53
At diagnosis? Yeah, I was living with my dad. Okay?

Scott Benner 13:57
And did he get involved? Or was it like, did he look at you from across the room? Like, wow, that sucks.

Brock 14:03
They left it onto me for the most part. Like, from the jump, but I wasn't really taking care of myself. So I ended up back out in Colorado going to school again. Like I was telling you I thought I was invincible. I was like, you know, screw this diabetes thing. I'm not, you know, taking care of that. Yeah, I ended up in DKA, like, a number of times. The last time, my parents ended up coming out to Colorado, and they're like, Hey, you gotta come back to Wisconsin and get your health figured out, and then you can come back out here and, you know, do what you want to do finish your degree or whatever

Scott Benner 14:42
you're 19 at that point, yeah, and your divorced parents came to Colorado together to collect you. You can manage diabetes confidently with the powerfully simple Dexcom g7 dexcom.com/juicebox, the Dexcom g7 Is the CGM that my daughter is wearing. The g7 is a simple CGM system that delivers real time glucose numbers to your smartphone or smart watch. The g7 is made for all types of diabetes, type one and type two, but also people experiencing gestational diabetes. The Dexcom g7 can help you spend more time in range, which is proven to lower a 1c The more time you spend in range, the better and healthier you feel. And with the Dexcom clarity app, you can track your glucose trends, and the app will also provide you with a projected a 1c in as little as two weeks. If you're looking for clarity around your diabetes, you're looking for Dexcom, dexcom.com/juice, dexcom.com/juicebox when you use my link, you're supporting the podcast, dexcom.com/juicebox head over there. Now let's talk about the tandem Moby insulin pump from today's sponsor, tandem diabetes care, their newest algorithm control iq plus technology and the new tandem Moby pump offer you unique opportunities to have better control. It's the only system with auto Bolus that helps with missed meals and preventing hyperglycemia, the only system with a dedicated sleep setting, and the only system with off or on body wear options. Tandem Moby gives you more discretion, freedom and options for how to manage your diabetes. This is their best algorithm ever, and they'd like you to check it out at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox when you get to my link, you're going to see integrations with Dexcom sensors and a ton of other information that's going to help you learn about tandems, tiny pump that's big on control tandem diabetes.com/juicebox the tandem Moby system is available for people ages two and up who want an automated delivery system to help them sleep better, wake up in range and address high blood sugars with auto Bolus. Yeah, yeah. They were worried about you.

Brock 17:00
Yeah, yeah, no, it was a pretty serious episode. I had been feeling, you know, like I had some sort of a flu or something like that, and I came back to the apartment I was living in at the time, one of the roommates that I had had a king size bed, so I ended up going in there and laying down in his bed. And just because nobody else was home at that point, and when they ended up getting home, I was unresponsive, so they called the guy that was teaching ski patrol class that I was in, because he was the EMS in town, okay, uh, he ended up coming, and they got me into the ambulance, and I believe, ended up having to drive me, like, to Denver. So I pretty sure they drove, I don't think I was ever in a hot or in a helicopter or anything, but, but

Scott Benner 17:50
you were out of it, if you don't know that. Yeah, no, well, so

Brock 17:53
the first thing I recall after all this, I woke up with a tube down my throat, and, you know, I was like, what the, you know, what the

Scott Benner 18:01
rock? Are you taking insulin at all? Man, were you taking basal even,

Brock 18:05
I think, like, here and there, maybe I would take, like, some basal, but no, okay, and this was, you know, part of the why I wanted to come on, you know, just tell people that, hey, it's not worth it. I know everybody has probably told you, but 100% it's not worth not taking care of it. You know,

Scott Benner 18:24
listen, we're gonna get into a been ask you, like, a couple of questions. First, okay, because I want to hear about this moment. But first, I just this is a public service announcement for all you guys out there you think your boys have your back. Just remember that when Brock was dying, they didn't call 911, they called a guy they knew because he was an EMT. Okay? Like you gotta, you gotta have clear friends around you. Do you see what I'm saying? You know what to do? Brock, right? If a, if a person's passed out next to you, you call 911, right? Yeah. But okay, so you're, you're awake, tube down your throat. Serious situation. Your parents are on their way, or they're there already, I'm not sure. Yep. You're not taking insulin with any regularity, so you're not even getting up in the morning and going like, all right, at least I'll shoot my basal, which is usually the story you hear from people, like, I just shoot my basal and I didn't Bolus. Like, but my question is, what was your understanding of what would happen to you if you didn't take your insulin? What did you know to be true? Like, was this a surprise when you ended up in the hospital, or was this just, you like, willfully saying I'm just gonna die at 19.

Brock 19:26
I didn't, like, give up on life at all. But, yeah, I mean, I think I was like, I was just so in denial, you know, I was like, you know, this, this can't be real. Like, I've, I've lived my first 19 years without any anything, you know, without having to take shots and doing all this, you know, right? You know. And I got the full wrath of my actions because of what I did. Well, yeah,

Scott Benner 19:50
but I'm saying is that, like, while you weren't doing it, like, this is the psychological part I want to dig into. You get up in the morning that stuff is somewhere in your room. You're looking at it, or, you know, it's there. Or, you know, you should be taking this insulin, right? Like, so when you don't do it, what is your expectation of what's going to happen? Like, if I went up to the stove right now and turned the flame on and I said, like, Brock, I need you to reach out and hold your hand over the flame. You'd say no, because my hand is going to get burnt. But, like, right, when you look at the insulin and say, I'm supposed to be injecting this, but I'm not going to. Why? Why aren't you like, what do you think is going to happen next when you don't do it?

Brock 20:28
You know, I think in my mind, I'm thinking, I'm just going to continue on, like, before I got this diagnosis. But that's not how it works,

Scott Benner 20:37
right? Because so it's just, it's just, I don't know what the word

Brock 20:40
is. It's willful, willful ignorance. Okay, I guess maybe, or some, something like that.

Scott Benner 20:46
That's not the first time you're in the hospital. So other bad things have happened. So your body was kind enough to you to go like, Hey, here's a preview of what's going to go on. If you keep doing this and you were like, Oh, the previews are nice, but I want to see the show on opening night,

Brock 21:01
exactly. I want to see the full movie. Yeah, let's

Scott Benner 21:03
see the whole Monty here right now. Like, what's gonna happen? Right exactly? By the way, for people to say, I know it's the full Monty, it's not important, but we'll keep moving on. So now you're there. Do you think if your parents don't come and get you, you would you have you just cycled back out into life again and done it again?

Brock 21:19
That's a tough that's a tough question. Because, you know, this was, like, a really, a really large event, you know, waking up with the tube down my throat. I ended up having, like, somewhere, at some point during this day, I they punctured a lung, and I had a tube coming out from my side as well.

Scott Benner 21:36
Oh, I've seen that on TV, yeah.

Brock 21:39
You know, it was, it was very in depth, and I think it would have woken me up either way. But you know, I guess you know, it was nice that nice of them to come out. Obviously, you know, they they love me, and they showed me that by coming out and being like, hey, dumb, get you together, because this is not working. Clearly, Are you their only kid? No, I have one older brother, okay, two years older than me. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 22:07
Hey, I've never done this before, but Brock people have connecting words they use when they're talking. I've had like in the past, like so, but I stopped myself from doing it. You do? You know, so do you want to apologize right now to rob for all the times he's gonna have to cut out you saying, you know, go ahead, go ahead. Just apologies, Rob.

Brock 22:25
I'm, uh, I'm from Wisconsin. I do apologize for all the times that you're gonna have to cut that out.

Scott Benner 22:33
You just have the right temperament for that. Normally, at the end, I leave a voice note for Rob that. And I would have started like this, Hey, Rob. You know, there's going to be some editing in this, you know. And you know, at least, listen, at least it's not, oh yeah, right. Oh

Brock 22:49
yeah, you know, don't you know? You bet

Scott Benner 22:54
I appreciate the whole string of them right there. Oh yeah, wow. Okay, so they How long are you in the hospital for do you not even recall? No,

Brock 23:02
I think it was, it was about a week, or might have been a little less than that. We could my mom had already had a trip planned to Jackson, hole Wyoming for skiing, and I was invited on that. So we were like, Oh, we got to get out of we got to get out of the hospital to get, get to the next place and go ski, really?

Scott Benner 23:24
Oh, wow, you didn't grow up with my dad. First of all, he wouldn't have taken you on vacation. Secondly, if he had one planned and you did this, this would have been how he would have punished you for it. He would have been like, remember how we were going to Jackson Hole. You're not going out anyway. Yeah, I'm not going to and I'm going to be pissed about it, and then take out that anger about me not going on you. This is if we ever left the state that we lived in, which we never did, nevertheless, like so you guys went skiing after that. Yes, we did. Yeah. Was there? This is not a judgment of your parents, but was it a whole week of your parents just in every quiet moment telling you how important your life is and that you have to take care of your diabetes. Or was it not spoken about? No, I

Brock 24:07
think it was a lot of that. It was a lot of hey, like, really, you need to figure your life out, like, start taking care of this, because clearly this is a real disease. I'm sorry, I didn't

Scott Benner 24:17
mean to make you,

Brock 24:20
yeah, I won't think about it, but they told me, you know you gotta, you gotta figure this out and take it seriously, because this is your real life, and you're running out of chances.

Scott Benner 24:30
No, quickly, seriously, man, your dumb buddies wait a little longer. And yeah, I don't know what happens to you, or they don't come home, or something like that, not that they're dumb. You understand I'm saying,

Brock 24:40
yeah, no, no, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're all in college. We were, we probably weren't the smartest, but, you know, college is dumb, but you know, no, we could talk

Scott Benner 24:49
about it like this, you were young, and you didn't know what you're doing, and everybody was high as a kite. And, like, they probably for the first two hours, they probably just thought you were stoned, right? Yeah. They're probably like, probably did look how calm. Comfortable, Brock, is he looks great.

Brock 25:03
Look at him on the king size bed. He's just so happy. You know,

Scott Benner 25:07
if it was nowadays, they'd be taking pictures of you with their phone and putting it on Instagram. All right, so does it get through to you on that trip? No, no. Can I ask you a question? Brock, this is going to be a little unfair. I could be completely wrong about this. Do you come from money?

Brock 25:26
No, no, I would say that my my mom's, I mean, both my parents are middle class. I would say, okay, all right, on the wealthier, I guess, side maybe.

Scott Benner 25:37
But are we saying for Wisconsin or for the world? No, no,

Brock 25:41
definitely not for the world, and probably not even really for Wisconsin. We're not well

Scott Benner 25:47
off. I tried to show on Wisconsin for you. You didn't hear it. I don't even know what that means, but I was just making that up. The only reason I asked is, you have a fancy name? Do I do? You not think you do.

Brock 26:01
So the name is my mom and my dad. They both wanted to keep their their last names, so me and my brother got both of them and say

Scott Benner 26:11
your name out loud, Brock West behest, yes, you're Brock West behest. That doesn't sound like something that would be on a TV show like and, I mean, it could be exposed, like, I guess six one blonde guy walks the room. They're like, Oh, look, everyone, it's Brock West behest. And also you're going to Jackson Hole, which is not cheap, like, so that's like, that. I started doing the math on that.

Brock 26:34
Yeah, yeah, my mom, that's what I was saying. So my mom, she makes decent money, and she's good with her money. She loves to travel, and she

Scott Benner 26:42
puts her money where it makes her happy. Yeah, gotcha, yep. Okay, all right, I just, and by the way, I wasn't just asking to ask. I was asking because I can't think of a guy's name, but I had a guy on, listen, I've done so many episodes, I don't know what it was. It was before, okay, I think when you get to his episode Brock, you're going to be like, Oh, this is the guy. I think I sound like, yeah, kind of like, attitude. And I remember him having come from, like, a little bit of privilege, and I was just trying to, like, like, I was trying to decide, is this you going, I don't want what I don't want, and so I'm not going to do it because I've lived that way and I don't need to, or if it was just you saying, like, more, like, simply psychologically, like, I don't want to accept this. I'm going to ignore it. It sounds like it's the the latter. So I think I understand better now. And I wanted everybody else to know too. Like, yeah, I don't know another way to say this. Like, I wanted to make sure they knew if you were just a spoiled kid who were like, I don't like this. I don't want this.

Brock 27:41
Yeah? No, no, that that's not the case. Not the case. Okay, no, I know I had to buy everything that I wanted, yeah, with my own money.

Scott Benner 27:50
Awesome. Okay, all right. It doesn't matter to me, one way the other. I just want to understand that. Oh, right, yeah, for sure. Okay, so we leave Jackson Hole. They take you back to Wisconsin. They put you back to work.

Brock 27:59
When I'm back in Wisconsin again, I'm living with my dad, who is living with his girlfriend at the time. I'll fast forward just a little bit. Just day after Thanksgiving, I'm supposed to be working at Ty roll, which is the ski area near me. I ended up calling in because I was hung over, and then I was sleeping on the couch in the living room, and my dad's girlfriend's grandkid came in and threw a pillow at me, and before I realized what I was doing, I had walked over and I picked him up From underneath his chin, and I realized, you know, pretty great. As soon as it happened. I was like, oh shit. And set him back down, and, you know, checked on and made sure he was all right. And he seemed like he was physically All right, but he was shaken up, obviously, yeah, and he went and told his uncle what happened. His uncle came into the living room. He's like, Hey, you gotta pack up your and get out of here. And I was like, I don't have anywhere else to go. He's like, That's not my problem. I was like, I mean, I guess you got to do what you got to do. So he called the cops. I went out onto the back porch, crack the beer, waited for the cops to show up. I hadn't mentioned this, but I have a problem with authority. I'm hearing that now, but go ahead. Right, right. Yeah, I was gonna say, as you know, I don't know if that's common or not, but yeah. Anyways, so the cops show up, and they start asking me questions, you know, and I'm not really being very cooperative. I ended up finishing the beer I was drinking, and I got up to go grab another one, and I think they thought I was going back inside, they started like putting their hands on me. They hadn't said I was under arrest or anything at this point, so I started fighting back. They ended up tasing me and putting me in the cuffs. Brought me over to the squad car. While I was sitting in the squad car, I pulled the cuffs back around to the front and rolled down the window because. For whatever reason, the windows were not locked. I was sitting on the window with my arms up on top of the SUV, and the cops ended up eventually seeing that, and they came out, and when they they opened, you know, got me back in the car, opened the door, and they were going to switch the cuffs back around to the back. And when they uncuffed my right hand, I punched one of them in the face, and I took off running. Didn't make it very far. They hit me with the deployable taser. And that was, that was basically the end of it, all

Scott Benner 30:27
right, Brock, that's crazy, but let me just ask you, what's it like to be tased? It's

Brock 30:32
not, it's exhilarating. It's not, it's it's not. The worst thing in the world. Pepper spray is worse.

Scott Benner 30:37
Everything that people need to know about you comes from the from the answer. It's exhilarating. What's it like to be tased? You're like, oh, Scott, it was awesome. I punched the guy and ran away, just so he would do it again. Awesome, right? I'm going to take a bit of a left turn here for half a second. But the amount of people, the number of people I've interviewed recently or telling me they have porn addictions. I was thinking about them when you were like, so I moved back in with my dad. I was asleep on the sofa, passed out drunk, and my stepmom and I was like, oh, all the porn guys were like, Whoa, this is gonna be great. Anyway. Seriously, nothing like that, dude. We're gonna have to dig into this, not in your episode, obviously, but the amount of people telling me like I have a serious porn addiction lately is crazy. Oh, yeah, but here's what I've been doing while you were telling your story of exhilaration. I found out that multiple head injuries can lead to things like irritability, poor, frustration tolerance, impulsivity, aggression, defiance, like, stuff like that, right? No kidding, yeah. Do you know if you had like, Have you ever talked to your parents about like, was I like this before I hit my head?

Brock 31:51
Yeah, I started hitting my head pretty young, like I was telling you the first one was at at recess. I was in elementary, I don't know what grade, but, you know, I

Scott Benner 32:02
wish for everybody Brock that they could have a job like mine, where someone could say that to you and then you're allowed to laugh. Yeah, right, because I don't think it's funny. But no, seriously, like there's no I get Oppositional Defiant Disorder, characterized by ongoing patterns of anger and irritability, mood, argumentative, defiant behavior, vindictiveness. Does any of this sound like you, yeah.

Brock 32:20
I mean, it definitely, definitely did, especially when, when all this so, you know when all this happened? As I was saying,

Scott Benner 32:27
Yeah, let's go back to that. You've been tased a second time. Where does it go from

Brock 32:31
there? Yeah. So, so I got brought in, and I got charged with suffocation, strangulation to minor, and then battery to a law enforcement officer and I born 100% disagree with that first charge. I think that's completely Bull. I did not like put any pressure on I literally just lifted him up from underneath his chin. Either way, I know that's 100% wrong.

Scott Benner 32:54
You're not arguing about the act, you're arguing about the charge, yeah,

Brock 32:59
yeah. But either way. So anyways, I got sentenced with both those, both felonies and or got sentenced to two years. Wow, two years in, six years

Scott Benner 33:09
out. So, okay, so you served. You served all two years. Yeah.

Brock 33:13
So I ended up doing 14 months in Walworth County Jail, which was the county that this happened in after that, I got switched over to Green Bay, which is max prison, really.

Scott Benner 33:27
Hey, why did they move? Yeah, what did you do in prison? Brock,

Brock 33:32
I it was what I was doing in jail, because of my my opposition to authority, yeah, because of my opposition to authority, I I acted out a lot when I was in County. I ended up in the hole for like 60 days straight while I was in there.

Scott Benner 33:49
So, hey, watch that language. Watch your language. The porn addicted guys are listening.

Brock 33:55
Yeah, right. Well, go, go ahead. I would be crying

Scott Benner 33:57
the whole time, so I can't really like my opposition would be floating around in my own tears that yelling, I'm a podcaster, please leave me out of here. But seriously, like, you're in there. Do you see the through line at that point? Like, Listen, man, they brought you home to save your life, and you're drunk on the sofa, not going to work. Like, it's not exactly like, yeah, Brock's not exactly like, Hey, I'm pulling it together. Yeah? No, the kid takes you out, you know, out of your mind for a second while you're still hung over, you go after him and all this, like, happens after that, but when you get into pre into jail, excuse me, you don't say to yourself like, Oh, I see the actions that got me here. I'll stop those things. You just double down on them, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, all right. And so, like, fair enough, it's not a thing you you're not consciously doing these things. This is just these. Are your reactions to these, to any situation, really? Yeah, I gotcha. Okay, my next question is, even though that's all happening, is this the best your diabetes has ever been taken care of?

Brock 34:57
Yeah? Oh, 100% I was gonna say. That, you know that was, yeah, the silver lining of all this is that I was taking care of my diabetes while I was locked up, because you're forced to, right? That's what finally got me into taking care of it. I see managing it,

Scott Benner 35:14
okay, but let's talk about like, so you're on a schedule with your diabetes in jail. That's cool, but then they move you to the max. Like, does the Defiance continue? Or does something about like, what straightens you out? Because you're not like that now, is that right?

Brock 35:28
Yeah, no, not, not at all. And I was gonna say, I guess as soon as I got into the max, I maybe that was a good move by them. Was like, I, I'm not gonna act out here, because I was, I was locked up literally in cells with murderers, like serial killers,

Scott Benner 35:43
and like, yeah, so that caught me to write down,

Brock 35:46
yeah, right. You know, I'm like, I don't feel like acting out to prove any point here, right? So I'm gonna just lay low and do my time and get out. Yeah. Did

Scott Benner 35:55
you have any weird experiences that are like, in the max prison that are worth telling

Brock 36:01
actually, I have one from in County and so the only time I've ever done heroin was when I was in county jail, because, like, I was telling you I was in, I was in the hole for like, 60 days straight. We, you know, one of the guys in there said he had some. I have no idea, you know, how he brought it in his anus, or, yeah, whatever. No, put it in a bag,

Scott Benner 36:27
hopefully, Brock I have some. Well,

Brock 36:31
you know, I don't have anything better going on, so I'm like, Yeah, I'll give it a go. You know, I'm just in this cell for how, 14 hours a day. So, you know, I might as well do something to change up the scenery or whatever. And it was an odd feeling, for sure, but definitely never got anywhere near that stuff again. That was a one time deal, and my time in prison was pretty smooth. Honestly, I was in Green Bay, and my grandparents live in Green Bay, so they made an effort to come and visit me a decent bit, which was awesome. Very nice. Yeah, it's just great seeing people from the outside and getting to play cribbage and stuff with them.

Scott Benner 37:14
Yeah? Remember, there's a world you're trying to get back to that kind of stuff. Yeah? Right. Yep. 100% that was lovely. You didn't feel judged by your grandparents. No, that's nice. How about your parents? How do they

Brock 37:26
handle all this? So my mom was like, I think they both were in the mindset like, You got what you deserve. To some extent, they weren't like, Haha, you, you bastard, that's what you

Scott Benner 37:38
get. Yeah? What's easy for them to say they're not doing it

Brock 37:44
exactly, exactly.

Scott Benner 37:46
Yo mom, it might not be exactly what you're thinking here. And so did the good medical care continued on in the prison side. Yeah. Okay. And did you notice any difference in yourself once your blood sugars were regulated,

Brock 38:03
yeah? I mean, I guess, like, at the start, not necessarily because I was in Yeah, County at that point, and that was still acting out a lot and stuff, but I guess, I mean, like, mentally, for sure, I like, more stable, you know, right? I definitely felt better. That's

Scott Benner 38:21
awesome. Explain to me a little more about like, what stops this defiance in you? Like, is it like, seriously? Like, the difference between, like, a local cop tasing me is exhilarating, but a murderer cutting my throat not going to be exhilarating. So like, did you just have to consciously hold yourself together? Like, I'm trying to figure out how you went from acting out, like, meaning, like having reactions that were not clearly thought out, that you weren't modulating at all, to actually being able to control all of that. Like, was it just the risk of death that

Brock 38:52
did it? I'd say that's big part of it, and also just seeing people that were there for life. And that was like, that's, this is clearly where I ended up because of not taking care of this. And I want to get out of here, get back out and start living my life.

Scott Benner 39:10
Are you literally scared straight by by prison? Yeah, I guess. I

Brock 39:15
guess so. Yeah, scared. Scared Straight with as far as my diabetes goes for sure.

Scott Benner 39:20
Yeah, right. And it's not like, like, nobody beat, nobody raped you. Like, it wasn't anything like, over the top, like, just the being there, yep, yeah. You were like,

Brock 39:28
Okay, seeing right? And like, well, and yeah, just like I said, it was only eight months that I was actually in prison. The repetitive nature of all of it, it's very boring, tedious lifestyle. And obviously it's not meant to be fun. You know, they're, you know, it's reforming, but like,

Scott Benner 39:48
something not pull out of you, like you were just, like, I'm gonna stop being a dick now. And like, and, yeah, yeah, because I don't want to live here the rest of my life. Exactly. Gotcha. Is it fair to say? That the tediousness taught you any kind of how to set your life up in an order. Like, did you get out and keep up the I don't know what, why? I can't find the simple word that I need here, but the repetition of day after day,

Brock 40:13
yeah, I would say it definitely did, you know, help me get on a schedule, especially, you know, like with the diabetes, but just like overall, I would say it did. It helped me pursue one goal and keep keep on a steady path to get to that goal.

Scott Benner 40:30
Yeah, wow. Has it been hard getting work since you've been out because you're a felon, right?

Brock 40:35
Yeah, I am. Honestly, it hadn't. It hasn't been all that hard. I was fortunate from the time that I got out, I got out in 2018 in November, and I ended up with six years of extended supervision. So actually, I just got off of that this last November. So nice, exciting, I guess. But

Scott Benner 40:55
yeah, so that's parole for six years. Yeah, yeah. What's that like? Check check ins are. How frequent are they? So they started

Brock 41:03
out every week as you show that you're trying to be a productive member of society and staying on the right path and keeping clean and all that. Yeah, they extend the visits further and further by the end of it, you know, I, like my last year I had like, four visits, yeah, so it was like every three months, but present day, do you drink? I do every now and again. I don't drink a lot. I was going to tell you, so I got out on paper and taking care of my diabetes and all that. Even though I was not supposed to be I was drinking a decent bit at that point. What made me stop was actually some motorcycle incident. I ended up getting two speeding tickets within a week of each other. One was on a Sunday. I was coming home from my dad's. My dad lived in Chicago at the time, and I was living with my mom in Monticello, which is a small town in Wisconsin, southern Wisconsin. Anyways, I was coming back from my dad, and I got to, like, Beloit, and I ended up running out of gas on my motorcycle. I pushed my bike to the first house that I found, which was like a farmhouse out, you know, in the middle of nowhere. Fortunately, this guy had a little bit of gas. He let me get I was like, All right, I need to get to the next the nearest town. Yeah, from here. And I was just like, holding the bike wide open to get to the nearest town as quick as I could. I know I was probably burning the gas quicker that way, but wasn't really thinking, uh, all that logically, I suppose. But anyways, I, you know, was doing like 100 and I saw red lights sitting in the media, and I was like, oh, red and blues flipped on as soon as I passed them. And I pulled over right away, and I ended up getting clocked at like 95 or something like that. Yeah, that following Friday, again, I was working at Tyro. We were doing a terror at Tyro, which is like their October they do a haunted house thing. I rode my bike out there, and after the fact, a couple of guys that were doing the haunt thing ended up going to a bar, and I stayed until closing, and I'd been drinking and got out. And I was like, Oh, I brought the bike today. And I was like, I guess I gotta ride home. And so like, Monroe or not Monroe or Mount Horeb, a bunch of towns that don't that are basically unimportant if you don't know where I'm talking to Monticello, it's like a 45 minute drive, if you're, like, doing the speed limit and stuff. But I was like, All right, I guess I'm gonna ride my bike home. And I got on, and I was basically a whole nerd kind of, sort of wide open the whole way. I ended up getting to my small town, Monticello, that I live in, and turned into town, and I turned into an exit lane, just because it was, like, three o'clock in the morning at this point. You know, I'm like, there's nobody out here, and I got lit up at that point. I was like, what the like, where did this guy come from? He's like, I had you at like, 138 but I couldn't lock it in on the radar gun, so I'm giving you a ticket for reckless and imprudent speed and then driving into oncoming traffic because of my, yeah, yep. I swear to God, I was sitting on the side of the road for it must have been like half an hour or something at this point, and they were, I don't know, they were just asking me questions and stuff. And then finally, at like, half an hour in somebody, one of the guys is like, Have you been drinking it all the night. And I was like, I had a few earlier, and they're like, Would you do a breathalyzer? And I'm like, Yeah, I'll do that. I blew like a point zero, 7.075 or something, you know, just under the legal limit, yeah, but I was on probation, and they told my PO that that had happened, and ended up getting. Sent to county jail for the weekend. At that point, I was like, I'm just going to stop drinking because it's not worth it. It's not worth getting in trouble, and it's not worth, you know, good, not worth the hangovers. Anyways,

Scott Benner 45:12
I'm not bagging on Wisconsin here, but drinking beer is the it's the state sport, isn't it? Yeah? 100%

Brock 45:18
Yeah. Drinking beer and eating brats is,

Scott Benner 45:20
yeah, so it's because it's so cold there, you have nothing to do. That's back to my point, right, right? I'd like to tell you that, in addition to the things we talked about, about having multiple head injuries before it can also lead to like, thrill seeking behavior and compulsiveness. Oh,

Brock 45:35
well, I think I feel like I've always been an adrenaline junkie. I don't know if that's anything new.

Scott Benner 45:40
Also, I want to tell you that I was once pulled over on my bike for going 80 over in a 35 so I'm not and for those of you listening, it wasn't like a now I'm explaining now I sound like you, Brock, I'm like, you don't get it, like I was in the hole I was Born. You would have done Carolyn, too. Shut up. I was on a highway that suddenly went down to 35 Yeah, I was going 115

Brock 46:10
quite matter. Yeah, you know you're going. You're going well over speed limit either way. That's how, that's how it goes on the bikes, though, you get up to such a, such a stupid speed, so fast, like, Wow, I did. You don't even realize how fast you're going

Scott Benner 46:23
until you've ridden a motorcycle. You don't understand that. Like, 100 seems like 40 and like, yeah, it really doesn't like, you get it so smooth and you get to it so quickly, like, you can't feel it. I mean, those you now may be driving electric cars might understand that a little better. But like, if you've never ridden the

Brock 46:39
torque, yeah, maybe electric cars is probably similar, but, yeah, I mean, honestly, it's just, it's a whole nother level,

Scott Benner 46:45
no idea, like, how crazy, like, allegedly,

Brock 46:49
the fastest I've gone is, like, 100 and I don't know, 69 or so, like, GPS verified on my bike, but allegedly, I don't know about anything. I

Scott Benner 47:00
listen, it's been a long time I did 160 once, yeah, because the bike went to 160 and I was like,

Brock 47:06
Yeah, but you have to, you have to see, you know, what is it like? Popped up.

Scott Benner 47:10
I just realized I'm three head injuries away from being in prison. Because

Brock 47:16
no, and it ended diabetes diagnosis.

Scott Benner 47:18
I just remember I was 20 years old. And I said, this thing says it goes 160 I wonder if it does, right? Yeah. And it did, yep. I'll tell you 160 you're looking a mile down the road to focus on something. It's

Brock 47:32
yeah, I was gonna say, I'm not, like, you know, super wealthy, is what I'm trying to say. Because I would love to just go to, like, Track, track, yeah, dude, like a track day, but that's expensive, yeah, you

Scott Benner 47:44
know, and yes, listen, just sit at home and go to work. You'll be fine. Listen, is there any way You've tricked a woman into having sex with you since all this has happened? Are you

Brock 47:53
dating? Yeah, there is no. I'm actually engaged. I am like, three months away from marriage. Oh, actually, congratulations, yeah, thank you. Oh, man, I Yes. I've got very lucky. I have the most amazing fiance that I, that I could ask for. She

Scott Benner 48:12
put a helmet on you. I don't think you bang in your head one more time. No, she,

Brock 48:16
she definitely makes make sure I always have a helmet on. And actually, full, full, full, full riding gear. I have, I got pants with padding and jacket with padding, you know, steel toe boots, helmet.

Scott Benner 48:28
Actually, that's great. I used to ride like an idiot, like, we'd go in shorts and stuff like that.

Brock 48:34
But listen, I used to, but, yeah, not anymore.

Scott Benner 48:37
You get out of prison. You take better care of your diabetes. It's been a long time now. Like, how do you manage? Are using a pump? You have a CGM, I mean, you're taking your insulin.

Brock 48:46
When I got out, I was just pens, and then, like, five years ago, or something like, shortly after I'd gotten out, I ended up switching to a T slim, the tandem pump. And after I'd been using the tandem for a while. I started listening. Is when I started listening to the podcast. And I I hear you talking about Omnipod all the time. Here's your Omnipod ad here. Well,

Scott Benner 49:10
actually, I have a T slim ad too. I might do both of them. Well, there you

Brock 49:13
go. Yeah, you know. And I was like the tubeless nature that sounds like that sounds like a good thing. And I actually broke my tea slim riding my motorcycle. I crashed my motorcycle. I was coming into a roundabout, and there was some gravel on the road, and I just grabbed the front brakes and locked it up and tipped over. And, you know, I had the T slim on my belt, and like that, ended up hitting the ground. The screen was all cracked. I was like, I guess now's as good a time as any to switch over to the Omnipod

Scott Benner 49:42
now, exactly right now, thrilled, because there's probably an ad for them on this episode. First of all, I'm going to tell you something. The worst I ever went down was because of cinders too. It is hard to explain to somebody what it feels like to be upright and then gravity like you and that bike. All this, you go down so fast. It's hard to put the words exactly. But anyway, so you went to Omnipod. And, I mean, T slim, a good pump, but you broke it, and you thought, Oh, I'll try this one. I'll go tubeless.

Brock 50:12
I like the tea slim, but, yeah, you know, the tubing is not for you, not Yeah, not ideal. You know, showering, and I, you know, I'm a big I like water too, you know, I swim and do all that. And, yeah, you can't do that with this. People

Scott Benner 50:25
right now wearing a tandem, they're like, I shower. What is he talking about? Yeah, yeah, but you have to take your pump, I understand, yeah. So you make the switch, and that's how you manage. Now, are you Omnipod five? Are you Omnipod dash? Omnipod five? Yeah, automated. Okay. And so, so you weren't, yeah, I was gonna

Brock 50:43
say, so I actually where I am in the listening part of the podcast. I just get into, like, the Omnipod five, like, where you're gonna start going into those interesting tips. In detail, I have the Omnipod five, but I don't really use the automated mode. I use the manual mode because, you know, I, I use all the tips, bumping and nudging and all that. And, you know, I, I keep my keep myself pretty good. I my last a, 1c, I think was 664,

Scott Benner 51:13
good for you. That's awesome,

Brock 51:15
which is, you know, the best that I've had ever and, yeah,

Scott Benner 51:19
yeah, this podcast even works on felons who have head injuries. This is awesome. It does what an ad for me. This is

Brock 51:27
exactly you just listen. I'll tell you. I'll tell you, you got to listen in chronological order for things to make sense and for the knowledge to build up. The way

Scott Benner 51:36
you're putting this to people, they go back to the first episode. They listen to all of them, I get all those downloads, and then there. How long have you been listening?

Brock 51:44
Oh, man, I don't know. Like I was telling you I was on the T swim, I think when I was originally started listening, and that was five, like, five years ago, or something like

Scott Benner 51:55
that. Been listening to this podcast chronologically for five

Brock 51:58
years? No, so I started to chronologically, but I only, I probably did, like, the first 200 episodes, or something like that. And then I I thought, like, I jump around, well, I learned enough. No, no. I was like, I've learned enough. So I'm just gonna, you know, leave. And after not listening for a while, like, my blood sugar started kind of rising again. I wasn't taking care as much as I should have, you know? Interesting. Yeah.

Scott Benner 52:25
So you listened chronologically. You got through the Pro Tip series, which happens in the two hundreds, and then you were like, That's good. I'm doing a good job. I don't need this anymore. And then at some point you looked up and your a 1c was drifting away from you, and you thought, I'll go back to the podcast. Yeah, interesting.

Brock 52:44
Yeah. 100% I think the community of, you know, other type one diabetics, and just hearing their stories. And I, like, just recently, I heard your conversation with the type two, and it sounds like that's going to be something that you've been doing more of. And that's awesome, because it sounds like the control mechanisms are, you know, pretty much the same, yeah, as far as I can tell Brock,

Scott Benner 53:06
you want to hear something disappointing, sure. I made a type two Pro Tip series with Jenny, and I think it's only eight or nine episodes long. I put out one episode a week for however many weeks, you know, eight weeks in a row, like once a week. You guys know how I do it. If you're listening like, I put out a series. I usually put them out on Fridays. I run them once a week, and you guys have time to, like, absorb them, go to the next step, etc. I did that for a Pro Tip series. It was, it was a limited run diabetes Pro Tip series for type two. And I have never had such a significant drop off and listenership in my in the entire 11 years, like I tried to give more content to type twos, and people unfollowed the show. Even though they were getting they were still getting four episodes a week that were type one, right? It remains one of the quietly sadder things that I've experienced doing this. So, yeah, that's a bummer. Yeah. So I, if you don't see me talking as much about type two, I don't do it because it hurts the podcast pretty significantly

Brock 54:05
that. Yeah, it sucks that that's the case. But, um, yeah,

Scott Benner 54:09
if I have a type two on and do like a standalone interview with them, nobody seems to mind that. But when I say, hey, look, here's information for you, it really pissed a bunch of people off. So yeah. Took me 18 months to rebound from the loss that I had, from from putting out the type two stuff,

Brock 54:27
really crazy. And I'm disappointed in my fellow type ones for you know, not

Scott Benner 54:32
I don't want to judge anybody, but I was disappointed in them, too, yeah, so, right,

Brock 54:36
I don't want to judge anybody, including type twos, you know, like, that's kind of BS, yeah. They're just people living with a disease and, you know,

Scott Benner 54:43
awesome, rock. Let's be clear, a lot of people listen to this podcast. Not everybody left. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I get that significant number of people where I was like, what the hell I had just gotten to this place? Where I was like, Oh, the podcast is going to tip like, it's going to, it's going to leap to the next level. And then. I just like, went right back down to the level I was on. And I was like, oh, okay, anyway, I'll probably do it again. I'm I have some defiance issues too. I think that type two Pro Tip series is awesome for people. And by the way, my thought was, you're all listening and enjoying the podcast. You know it's helping you. You must know people in your life with type two like, how great would it be to be able to go up to your aunt and say, Hey, listen, I'm having a great experience with my health here because of this Juicebox Podcast. I know you have type two diabetes, they just put out an eight part series I think might help you. Like, here's a list. Yeah, you know, that's all I was shooting for. You listened to and then you stopped listening. When you stopped listening, do you remember where your a 1c was? I

Brock 55:40
think I was like, mid sevens at that point.

Scott Benner 55:45
So mid 7c you were like, I'm so good at this, I don't need this anymore, right? Yeah. And then it drifts away from you. Where does it get to before you say, let me go pick the podcast. Back up again.

Brock 55:55
I think it gets, you know, probably back up to like, eight or eight and a half, you know? And then I'm like, Yeah, I'm not taking care of this. Like I should, like, like I was, and like I should be. Then I get back into listening, yeah? And

Scott Benner 56:08
it's not because you don't know what to do, it's because you've gotten off course with doing it, yeah? So this podcast is like, prison for you. It keeps you on schedule.

Brock 56:18
Yes, yes. It's like, the good parts, not the bad parts.

Scott Benner 56:21
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I actually think that's wonderful. So, like, because it's hard to keep a schedule, yeah, it can be Yeah, dude, I think, I think it's hard. Like, listen, I used to have a job where I had to be up at a certain time every day, which meant that I needed to be asleep at a certain time every day to do it again the next day. And long time ago, Scott, you don't know, I still remember. I don't

Brock 56:45
know, you know, I still remember it poorly today's but,

Scott Benner 56:49
but my point is that I don't have that exact same schedule anymore, and it does lead to you doing things like, like, oh, like, I'll just go out for dinner tonight, or like, you don't, I mean, like, I don't have to cook for myself. Like, I, you know, I got off schedule. I start. I didn't start till 10, and I worked till seven, so I don't have time to cook. Or, like, that kind of stuff happens a lot. And I think a lot of people work from home now too. And I think that that can happen. You lose track of days. Like, I think COVID did it to me. Like, I used to really, like, I used to really look forward to the weekend, and now I don't see the difference anymore. Like, everything just feels the same to me. Now, Monday is Sunday, is Wednesday. Doesn't matter to me. And the same with time. I just like, wow, it doesn't matter what time I do this task I need to do, like, because I work for myself, and I just have to get it done today. So I'll do it at two o'clock today, but I don't know, like, there's something about it, like, I miss there's something about the get up, make your bed, go on my you know, like, the military, go on a hike. Do this? Have dinner. Like, have like, I think there's something good for people. There

Brock 57:53
something about the routine that, you know, just keeps you, keeps you going, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it, yeah, I think it's really helpful for me, of

Scott Benner 58:03
course. I mean, the prison routine was clearly valuable for you, Yep, yeah. So at this point, now there's an Omnipod five Pro Tip series you're about to get to, I wonder if you'll end up going into automation after that.

Brock 58:16
I was gonna say, I'm honestly, I feel like I probably would, because I sometimes I, I'll switch over to automated, like, just for a night and stuff like that, just because, you know, I feel like it definitely helps keep me, keep me level. But that's probably just because I don't know enough yet. But, like, it's not adjustable enough. Like, I don't I always wake up, like, right around 140 if I'm in automated mode, I can wake up anywhere from like 80 to like, 110 if I'm in manual.

Scott Benner 58:43
Well, let me tell you why that probably is. Is because if you're listening to the Pro Tip series and utilizing a lot of bumping and nudging, what you're doing is you're adding more insulin that's not in your settings. Okay, so if that insulin was in your settings,

Brock 58:57
oh, so I'll just have to adjust either, like the insulin sensitivity, factor ISF or or the carb ratio, or something like that.

Scott Benner 59:06
Yeah. So if the if the insulin in your settings isn't covering your needs and you're adding more, if that was in your settings, then the Omnipod five would better understand the amount of insulin you need to affect

Brock 59:19
those things. That makes sense. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:23
Listen, I think bumping and nudging saved my life, like, you know, trying to understand Arden. I think it's the way that I taught myself how insulin works. Yep. And at the same time, you'll hear, as you're listening on that I start using, like, at some point in the podcast, like, Arden goes on loop, yeah. And watching, I'm past that. Okay, all right, so watching Arden loop, I have this like moment where I go, Oh, the loop is doing what I was doing, yeah. And I was bumping and nudging, and the loop is bumping and nudging, but I was bumping and nudging because her settings weren't strong enough. The loop is doing it because. It's seeing a change and getting ahead of it, and then I kind of meld the ideas together in my mind about how the insulin works. So it's exciting for me. You're like, you're gonna have all those experiences.

Brock 1:00:10
Yeah, I was gonna say I'm super excited too, and that's the thing. I'm super excited to get to them. I'm not gonna, I'm happy with my six five, you know, I actually, you know, like, just looked at my clarity, and I'm at averaging like 6.2 or something like that, right now. That's, you know, I'm happy with that until I get to those and until I get the real full understanding of how to best use the automated system. Yeah, and

Scott Benner 1:00:35
hey, you're doing it right? Yeah. I like you're taking your time. You're learning as you're going so you have a real grasp of it by the time you get to the end of what you're listening to, I think it's great. I appreciate that, that it's helping you. Actually, I appreciate hearing that from you. So how do you introduce your diabetes, and I mean, I guess to another extent, like your pre your previous life, to a woman like when you're you start getting serious with somebody like, you have to tell them, like, hey, look, I've been in jail. I've been in prison. This is what I did. You got to open up for real, right?

Brock 1:01:03
Yeah, I was gonna say, so I'm an open book. That's how I live my life. Like, if anybody asked me anything, I'm 100% open book, I will tell them. I obviously have no problem telling people I'm a diabetic, you know, showing showing off my pumps and stuff, you know, my robotic parts. I was at just asking her about that. I was like, when did I tell you? Or, like, how did so we actually met at work, or at my work. Her mom works where I work. I work at a print shop. She would come in now again, and she would do gardening stuff there. Yeah, she's got a very green thumb. She's very big into plants, and good at doing things that look good and all that. So we were out putting arborvitae trees in at work, and I was digging the holes because, you know, I like doing physical manual labor. But, you know, then I started beeping, and I had, I, you know, ran inside and drink some Gatorade or something, you know. And I guess her mom told her that I was inside fixing my numbers and told her that I was diabetic, but so she knew I didn't actually have to tell her. She, she knew she's very, very open and very into it. She, you know, she, she helps me. Whenever I put my Omnipod on, she always checks to make sure that I'm pink

Scott Benner 1:02:23
in the window. She checks the window for you. Yep, yep. Very nice. Check

Brock 1:02:27
the window make sure that it's pink. She likes to be the nurse, and she'll fill up the pods for me and

Scott Benner 1:02:32
everything. And yeah, that's lovely man. How long have you guys been together? We have

Brock 1:02:37
been together coming up on two years. It'll be well, we're getting married on our two year anniversary. I proposed on the one year anniversary. I guess you know, it's like that when you know, you know. And I knew with her 100%

Scott Benner 1:02:50
and she seemed okay with it. So she was,

Brock 1:02:55
she was in. I was like, awesome. And you know, what's even better? Crazy enough. She's never been to Colorado, but we're actually getting married in Colorado. We're doing a destination wedding, just going to be like us and some immediate family out

Scott Benner 1:03:08
there. That's excellent, man. Good for you. That's really great. Congratulations. That's wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, no, no. I mean, you've been on a on a hell of a ride, you know?

Brock 1:03:17
Yeah, yeah, I have. It's been, it's been a bumpy ride, but, you know, it's smooth, it's smooth sailing here.

Scott Benner 1:03:24
So, yeah, you told a story there that. I mean, you're only 29 yep, yep. And that's, that's a big story, and a lot's happened. You've been through a lot, you've done a lot, you've made a lot of mistakes, you've you've fixed a lot of things about yourself 100% What are you looking forward to in the next 29 years of your life, like, what do you hope your life is like?

Brock 1:03:46
Oh, man. Well, so currently we live in a house. My fiance bought this house before me. She was married previously, before we got together. I didn't, you know, facilitate in the split up or anything like that. You know, he owns this house, and I'm looking forward to buying a house with her, and, you know, hopefully starting our own family after we get married, and showing them what's important in life. And both me and Savannah, Savannah is my fiance. We We love being outdoors. You know, we love hiking. We love going, taking our dogs for walks, and mountain biking, disc golf, anything outside, doing that and showing showing kids that, you know, you can get outside. You don't have to be glued to your phone all the time.

Scott Benner 1:04:37
Yep. Brock, tell me what it is like you're looking forward to showing them. What about life like? What? What do you think it's important about

Brock 1:04:43
it, enjoying every moment, enjoying the small moments and the big moments, and taking it day by day, yeah, just the whole experience,

Scott Benner 1:04:52
being alive and with people and and just seeing what's around you and trying to enjoy it. Yep, yep. You think. You'd ever drink in front

Brock 1:05:01
of them? Yeah, I mean, like I was saying, I do every now and again, still and I definitely don't have, you know, I won't tell them not to drink. I will probably take the same route that my parents didn't. They were okay with me and my brother drinking at a younger age, as long as we were smart about it made, you know, good choices and made sure we had rides home that were not, that had not been drinking and, yeah, doing that sort

Scott Benner 1:05:29
of stuff. Okay. What about weed? Do you think you tell them it's okay?

Brock 1:05:32
Yeah, I would. I definitely say it's okay for them to try and make their own decisions about I don't. I don't do it anymore. I at one point or another, I started to get some paranoia from smoking, and at that point I was

Scott Benner 1:05:48
like, enough for me. Now, yeah, yeah, yeah. Will you ever tell your kids you did heroin in jail? Oh,

Brock 1:05:58
that's a good question. Yeah, I would say I probably would if I don't know if, if

Scott Benner 1:06:03
I know, I probably sound like I'm joking, but I'm being serious. Like, do you think there's a time in your life, Felix, you know what? I mean,

Brock 1:06:10
yeah. I was just saying if, if that Yeah. I mean, yeah, I would say, probably not.

Scott Benner 1:06:15
When there are five, but like, at some point you might say, like, Hey, I've made mistakes in my life. Here's a couple of them and, like, tell them your story, you know, Yep, yeah. Does your soon to be wife have a story too? Or is she just like a normal girl who just met you?

Brock 1:06:30
Yeah, she's got a story. Grew up in a town in Wisconsin as well, and her first marriage, the guy was, you know, apparently, abusive in more ways than one, physically and verbally, more so verbally, but you know, like everybody has a past and helping her heal from that stuff, and like showing her that I'm here to support her 100% you know, regardless of what she wants to do or how she's feeling, I just want her to, you know, feel valid for feel validated with all of her feelings, and, you know, help her work

Scott Benner 1:07:07
through. Man, that's lovely. I'm glad you guys found each other. That's really something. Thank you. Me too, yo. You're very welcome. I'm excited for you. It's hard to think this when you're 29 but like at my age, like you have so much time in front of you. Like it just this is very exciting for me to hear, because it feels like you're just a new person with a new direction. And you know what I mean? And I like that, yeah, yeah, 100% Yeah. Because it can feel like, when it happens to you, it feels more like, Oh, God, I've been through all this stuff, and I'm already 30 and I'm not even married, like, you know, like, you can think of it that way, yeah, I wouldn't think of it that way. I would tell you that you have, like, 31 years till you're 60. When you're 61, day, you'll have lived longer than you've lived right now, and you can make this next half of your life whatever you want it to be. I love that. Yeah, no, I'm super excited for you. Man, that's exhilarating. Not getting taste Brock. Let's

Brock 1:08:03
all right, that's, that's fair. Let's

Scott Benner 1:08:05
be exhilarated by building a life. Also watch what happens you make a baby. The first thing you're going to do is sell your motorcycle, just

Brock 1:08:13
so, you know, oh, I don't know if that's true. I've gotten Savannah into motorcycling as well. Now I feel like it'll be a part of our lives. But, you know, it'll be, I will definitely tone it down. You know, I already have started doing that just for Savannah, because I don't, you know, I got you trying to stay alive for, yeah, exactly I, you know, I got, I got reasons to stay alive. Rock,

Scott Benner 1:08:34
I wish somebody would have found you when you were five and told you the reasons that you wanted to stay alive instead of, instead of when you looked over the guy and you're like, Oh, I hope he doesn't kill me, yeah, yeah. You're kind of a hippie man. Like, I know what you look like. You're, oh,

Brock 1:08:49
yeah, yeah. I got, I got long hair, yeah, I was gonna say, you, you said, you know, I'll be listening to the episode that of a guy that sounds like me. You said six one blonde hair. That's, I'm like, six foot, and I got dark, I got brown hair, but I got, like, it's down to my shoulders.

Scott Benner 1:09:07
I know, I know what you look like, so I what I meant was that you sound Your name sounds like you're six foot and you have blonde hair, like, that's what got you you're a gentle dude, like, I can't imagine, like, I had a hard time imagining putting my 19 year old son in prison, looking at a guy that he thought, Man, that guy could kill me, like, I gotta sit here, shut my mouth and get the hell out of here, because, like, That guy could hear me wrong and end me for no real reason. It must have been. I mean, eye opening is, I guess that's

Brock 1:09:37
it definitely was. And, you know, it was like, like, my open book Living, like, same deal in there. So like, I would talk to my roommate. I'm in prison. There's nothing else to do, you know. I mean, we can read books and whatever. But like, I would talk to him. So I, you know, I got a lot of stories and a lot of, you know, a lot of things that I was just like, wow, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:59
man. Like, I said, You've been through some so, like, I'm happy that you're out the other side of it and you're starting over. And I just, I wish you nothing but success, and I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing your story with everybody. It

Brock 1:10:12
was awesome. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on, Scott, it's been my pleasure. And again, sorry, was it? Robert?

Scott Benner 1:10:19
Oh Rob, yeah, you're wrong.

Brock 1:10:22
Oh yeah, sorry, Rob, about all the editing.

Scott Benner 1:10:25
Rob, Listen, man, maybe there's a world where we just leave all the you knows in and, like, just let it be what it is. Like yours is definitely an episode where I'm going to get a note later that says, like, I spent a lot of time taking you know out of this episode.

Brock 1:10:39
I believe that, yep,

Scott Benner 1:10:41
but no. Awesome. All right, man, thank you so much. And you know, I don't, I don't dislike Wisconsin, right? But no,

Brock 1:10:47
I have you ever visited? I mean, I know your brother, your brother in law, or your brother lives here, brother in law.

Scott Benner 1:10:54
Oh, yeah. Brock, do you want me to ruin the podcast for you? Or do you want to keep listening in order?

Brock 1:10:58
I'm going to keep listening in order. But have you, have you visited, or have you not just

Scott Benner 1:11:02
give me that I visited at the end of my mom's life to see her? Yeah, oh, I'm

Brock 1:11:07
sorry for her passing. Thank you. She was in the episode that I'm listening to. She you know, you were just dealing with some of that going on with some health stuff

Scott Benner 1:11:18
with your mom, but you're gonna hear it all if you keep listening.

Brock 1:11:21
Yeah, that's my plan. I was gonna say Monday through Thursday at work, I listen to your podcast like the whole day, basically,

Scott Benner 1:11:29
man, I really do appreciate I can't tell you being serious. Brock, like, I'll let you go in a second. But people like you who are listening like that, you have no idea, like, how, how much it helps reach the next person who really probably just needs the Pro Tip series or the bold beginnings or something like that, because right, right the numbers. It's the numbers, and they're really important. They're really important to staying current. They're important to advertisers. They're important to the algorithms. Like and the podcast, just if people don't keep listening to it, like, if, if everybody just jumped in listen to the 20 episodes of this series, five of this, 10 of that was like, I feel good and I'm out of here, like the podcast wouldn't exist and it wouldn't be there for the next person. So right, I love that you're listening, and I really do. I genuinely appreciate it. So thank you,

Brock 1:12:14
man. I genuinely appreciate you putting all this time and effort into the podcast and for taking such good care of your daughter and being in the trenches and learning all this and sharing, sharing everything with with everyone. It really is my pleasure. It's my more people that it reaches, that that's the better.

Scott Benner 1:12:32
Thank you. Thank you. It really is my pleasure. I have to tell you, I really enjoy doing this so and all that comes out of it. So, all right, man, I'm gonna let you go Hold on one second for me. Okay, okay, thanks.

The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by tandem diabetes care. Learn more about tandems, newest automated insulin delivery system, tandem Moby with control iq plus technology at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox there are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox podcast.com. Dexcom sponsored this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom g7 at my link. Dexcom.com/juicebox, hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Check out my algorithm pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod five loop, Medtronic 780, G twist tandem control IQ and much more. Each episode will dive into the setup features and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type one diabetes management. We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care. If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the algorithm pumping series in the Juicebox Podcast, easiest way Juicebox podcast.com, and go up into the menu, click on series, and it'll be right there. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrong way recording.com, wrong.

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Scott Benner 7/8/25 Scott Benner 7/8/25

#1570 Body Grief

A type 1 diagnosis impacts everyone and everything. Erika Forsyth is here to discuss.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

When someone is diagnosed with type one diabetes or other chronic illnesses, there's no doubt about the impact that it has on them, but it also impacts the people around them and the people who love them today. Erica Forsyth and I are going to talk about just that. If you'd like to learn more about Erica, check her out at Erica forsythe.com my grand rounds series was designed by listeners to tell doctors what they need, and it also helps you to understand what to ask for. There's a mental wellness series that addresses the emotional side of diabetes and practical ways to stay balanced. And when we talk about GLP medications, well, we'll break down what they are, how they may help you, and if they fit into your diabetes management plan, what do these three things have in common. They're all available at Juicebox podcast.com, up in the menu. I know it can be hard to find these things in a podcast app, so we've collected them all for you at Juicebox podcast.com, please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 the one year where CGM, that's one insertion a year. That's it. And here's a little bonus for you. How about there's no limit on how many friends and family you can share your data with with the ever since now, app no limits. Ever since this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is brought to you by my favorite diabetes organization, touched by type one. Please take a moment to learn more about them. At touched by type one.org on Facebook and Instagram. Touched by type one.org check out their many programs, their annual conference awareness campaign, their D box program, dancing for diabetes. They have a dance program for local kids, a golf night and so much more touched by type one.org. You're looking to help or you want to see people helping people with type one. You want touched by type one.org. Summertime is right around the corner, and Omnipod five is the only tube free automated insulin delivery system in the United States, because it's tube free, it's also waterproof, and it goes wherever you go. Learn more at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, that's right. Omnipod is sponsoring this episode of the podcast, and at my link, you can get a free starter kit. Terms and Conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found it, omnipod.com/juicebox, Erica. Today, we're going to talk about how diabetes impacts the entire family, like not just the person who's been diagnosed, but everyone, and how their lives have changed from the moment that it happens to like the everyday life afterwards.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:19
That's right, yes, we're hoping to give Yeah, kind of a broader picture and understanding of how it impacts not only the individual, but the parents, the siblings, the grandparents, and hopefully builds empathy around all of that.

Scott Benner 3:32
Okay, do you want to start

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:34
Sure? Sure. So I know we have discussed, obviously, how it impacts the individual and caregivers from the day of diagnosis, and even we could walk through how that impacts the siblings. Are they left at home, or does one caregiver go to the hospital? Do grandparents have to step in just from that immediate even first day of diagnosis? Whether you're in the hospital for a few hours to a week, the impact starts immediately. Yeah, we hear all the stories and all the different layers, but I think it is important to understand that. And obviously the person being diagnosed with type one, it is the most impactful for that individual, sure, and it does touch everybody.

Scott Benner 4:22
So I'll start by sharing that the other night, I was just working here at my desk later at night. And you know how your phone, like, shows you pictures from the past all the time. So this photo pops up as I'm still working it, but it was in my it was on my computer, not on my phone. This time, it's like, on this date, like, that kind of thing. And on this date, shows me a photo of my wife holding Arden as a pretty young person, and my son leaning against her there. At we're at Yosemite on a trip, and they're kind of like, like, backed up to an overlook, and I'm taking a photo of them, and I look and realize pretty quickly, oh, Arden doesn't have. Diabetes in this picture, which is not an experience I have very often, because Arden was so young when she was diagnosed, and I just very quickly started to wonder who everybody would be today if that didn't happen. And like I looked at those people in that photo, and I thought, I wonder where they were headed before this happened? I don't think that that's a question you can ask yourself in the moment, because it's if you even think to ask that of yourself, it's just going to come out as, like, Everything's ruined, like, you know, like that kind of thing in the moment when it's happening. I do think that this is an important conversation to have, but that it's more valuable coming from people who can look back many decades over something and give you maybe a bigger overview of what all this means. That's why I'm happy you've one of the few times I'm very happy you've had diabetes for such a long time. I'm happy that Arden has been diagnosed for, you know, almost, gosh, don't even know, 17 years coming up on maybe. But anyway, that was it. Like, I think that's this entire crux of this. And I can't believe that they're, they're meshing up between us, recording and this happening to me, but I promise you, this happened the other day, and I just all I could think is, like, where were we all headed before this happened? And I know you think, like, Oh, it doesn't have to change anything for your son or you or your wife, but it's not true. Like, I think we are fundamentally different people than we would have been if this didn't

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:24
happen. Yes, and it really is impactful based on the age too. I know there's always a kind of a community conversation of like, is it easier to be diagnosed when you're two versus 10, versus 20 versus 60? And really, I think we could all just maybe agree that it's there's no easy age. It just sort of no matter what, yeah, yeah, there's no better age. There's no better time,

Scott Benner 6:48
right? There's different things that will happen based on your ages, but I don't think that judging them against each other is valuable, and even not just your like, not just the person being diagnosed and their age, but the age of the people around like, you know, I have a story about my son that I'll tell later, but I want you to dig into this a

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:07
little bit. So I thought we could, we could kind of focus our conversation from mainly two lenses, or kind of definitions of grief and how the diagnosis impacts all the different family members in a kind of larger family system. And one is is disenfranchised grief, which we have talked about in various other episodes. But I think this is a really significant and important concept to understand, which basically is known as hidden grief, or sorrow. So it's something you know. We kind of know if somebody you know gets diagnosed with cancer or there's a death in the family from someone who maybe has lived a long, successful life, we kind of understand communally, culturally, what that grief looks like, and how we can respond to that person's grief, or how we can live out that grief. And I know there's maybe a lot of assumptions in that statement, but the disenfranchised grief is that most people, society doesn't really understand it, and so therefore it's really unvalidated and misunderstood.

Scott Benner 8:13
You almost don't have permission to mourn something if it's not a death or something that the that the society agrees is a morning thing. Yes, like, we're all allowed to say, oh my god, cancer. And we, like, you know what I mean? Like, you feel it like that, and you should, by the way, very valid. And death, okay, he's sad from death. But if somebody comes along and says, I just found out that I'm losing my molars, and I'm really upset by it, people are like, Why don't you pull yourself together? You're not allowed to. And what does allowed mean? Like, culturally, is that, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:43
Because we don't see it, we don't understand it, and so therefore, as the individual, you don't feel like the like you have permission, like I should feel grateful. Like, how many times have you heard people say, I've been told or I should be grateful? It's not cancer, at least it's not at least it's not fill in the blank, right? And in that statement, it automatically, even though the person is trying to encourage and affirm and give perspective, it automatically creates a sense of why you really don't understand what type one is, and kind of increases that sense of isolation. And then you're, you kind of are internalizing, oh, I guess I can't be that sad about this diagnosis, because I keep hearing, at least it's not cancer. So you feel like, well, I should I can I be this upset about it? And that's what we

Scott Benner 9:33
hear, yeah. And I would imagine, too that there's people who react by saying, like, oh, like, just, like, you just said, like, they have that conscious thought, like, I guess I'm not allowed to be upset about this. There's also probably people who you know will maybe bend more towards, yeah, like, there's nothing for me to be worried about here. Like, you know, at least it's not this. Just because that's their outward reaction doesn't mean they don't feel what you just described, which is, I'm not allowed to be upset by this. Do you know what I mean? Like. Even if they don't look like they're gonna like, Go cry in a corner and go, I can't believe I have diabetes. It's okay. I'm gonna cry about it. I'm gonna ask for help. I'm gonna do all the other things that maybe I feel like doing. It doesn't mean they're not being impacted psychologically by that initial feeling of, this is not a thing I'm supposed to be upset by because there's something else out there that's blah, blah, blah. That makes

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:21
sense, yes, yeah. And that kind of goes into this other concept of body grief, which we'll get into. But I think there's this automatic sense of comparison and like ranking our grief, like, based on like ranking hardship. Yeah, no, that's pretty common. I think, yeah, this quote. I pulled up some kind of just random quotes that are out there with, you know, disenfranchised grief. No one died, but it felt like we lost something huge, our sense of normal, our normalcy, and no one talks about that. So because you've this disenfranchised grief is just a part of kind of the journey of type one for most people, or diabetes diagnoses because it isn't you, like, hopefully you know you aren't going to die from it immediately, right? But there's so much loss around the normalcy, and that's hard.

Scott Benner 11:11
I've seen a loss of people who can't trust their bodies anymore, yes, like, that feeling of like, oh, this thing was supposed to do all this stuff for me, and it can't. And now I wonder what's going to happen next. Like, you're always in the like next, like, waiting for the other shoe to drop. Like mode. You're like, well, if it stopped doing this, I wonder what else it's not going to do. I see that from a lot of people all the time, when that's possible, right? How are you not supposed to feel anxious about that? Or how is that not supposed to live in the back of your mind somewhere, or maybe it does for some people, today's episode is brought to you by Omnipod. It might sound crazy to say, but Summertime is right around the corner. That means more swimming, sports activities, vacations, and you know what's a great feeling, being able to stay connected to automated instant delivery while doing it all. Omnipod five is the only tube free automated insulin delivery system in the US, and because it's tube free and waterproof, it goes everywhere you do, in the pool, in the ocean or on the soccer field, unlike traditional insulin pumps, you never have to disconnect from Omnipod five for daily activities, which means you never have to take a break from automated insulin delivery. Ready to go tube free. Request your free Omnipod five Starter Kit today at omnipod.com/juicebox Terms and Conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox type that link into your browser or go to Juicebox podcast.com, and click on the image of Omnipod right at the bottom. There's also a link right in the show notes of your podcast player. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since 365 and just as the name says, it lasts for a full year, imagine for a second a CGM with just one sensor placement and one warm up period every year. Imagine a sensor that has exceptional accuracy over that year and is actually the most accurate CGM in the low range that you can get. What if I told you that this sensor had no risk of falling off or being knocked off? That may seem too good to be true, but I'm not even done telling you about it, yet, the Eversense 365 has essentially no compression lows. It features incredibly gentle adhesive for its transmitter. You can take the transmitter off when you don't want to wear your CGM and put it right back on without having to waste the sensor or go through another warm up period. The app works with iOS and Android, even Apple Watch. You can manage your diabetes instead of your CGM with the ever since 365 learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:56
It does, and that's where you've queued up again. This great, this new, I mean, it's not, it's not a new idea, but the coined term of body grief is exactly what you just defined. And this body grief is something that we have talked about, but we actually just last month in March, a woman named Jane Mattingly just came out with this book called body grief. I am just starting to read it, and I think it is going to help us a lot in in kind of this world of diabetes and the world of chronic illness, and it's that the emotional is defined by the emotional distress experience in response to changes or perceived limitations of the body, often due to aging, illness, injury, societal pressures, chronic illness. And it is about that your relationship with your body, where you have the sense of like, did my body betray me? There's sadness and anger, and the betrayal is kind of encapsulated in that. Idea of body grief, and it obviously affects our mental health, our self image, identity, and I appreciate this quote, particularly for children or teens. It's a quiet sadness that often gets overlooked in favor of resilience or bravery narratives. We often celebrate our warriors out there, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's a really healthy and beautiful mindset and thing to celebrate, like, look at my strong warrior, my type one way, or which that person can be. And is there also, can there also be space for the individual or the family to process this body grief and the sense of, like, did your body fail you in some way?

Scott Benner 15:46
Yeah, I wonder sometimes if the bravery thing isn't a way to not have to say out loud what you're thinking, which is like, I can't believe this happened to us, or I can't believe this happened to him or me, or whatever. And instead of like, even going through those thoughts, just jumping over them, right? To look how brave. It's not brave, right. Like, right? You know, I've said this before. Like, you know, your pancreas stops working, your kid's pancreas stops working, you keep living. I mean, what were the other options? Really, I don't think people want to be brave. I think people are forced to be brave. Like, in, generally speaking, in this arena, like, you know what I mean? Like, nobody's like, you know what you should do make sure one of my organs stops working correctly, because I really want to be brave. Anybody would switch back, you know what I mean? Like, oh yeah. Like, so it's also interesting. Like, a lot of that language around the body grief, I feel like I saw this week a post that, you know, you could read through it and see a number of different things. This person was, you know, struggling. They didn't understand why this thing had happened to their kid and everything. And when I got done reading it, I thought, this person's having a clear crisis of faith. Like, that's what this is this has got, like, all the narratives that they put into this post. I'm sure this is how they feel. But big picture, this person is a believer and wants to know how God let this happen to them. And I don't see a lot of difference between the person who would have something like this happen and go, How did God let this happen to me, and somebody who could have this happen and instead think, like more like, How did my body let this happen to me? Those seem like very similar concerns to me, but maybe, maybe you'll go farther and I'll change my mind. But initially, that's how it struck

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:32
me when something happens to our body, or we feel or have this kind of either real or perceived sense of loss around how our body failed us. Our automatic responses, we need to find something to blame, because it's so uncomfortable. And caregivers go through this too, right? This is kind of there, and we'll, we'll get into all these different lenses. But when we go through this loss around the body, can we? It's very human, natural and normal to say, Who can I blame? Can I blame God? Can I blame myself as the parent? What could I have done differently for the individual, diagnosed? Could I have lived, slept, eaten, drinking, something else differently to prevent this? And so we naturally go to a kind of a blame and shame perspective. Yeah, the

Scott Benner 18:19
blame, it kind of orders things, right? Like, everything feels chaotic and but if you've got something to blame, then it's like, okay, like, the amount of times I'll interview somebody that's had diabetes for 20 years, you can still hear burning in their brain. Like, why did this happen to me? Like, it's so interesting. 20 years into it, and they sit and talk about it, and they can't hide the fact that they're still wondering. You know, they'll say something, like, I was 27 when this happened. Like, why did it happen? I was 27 like, somehow, that's important. Like, that they were 27 or I was 50, and it happened, I can't believe this. Or she was so young, that's not right. Or, like, how does a baby get sick? Like, you hear them ask that, but they're all asking the exact same question, right? And trying to find out, Oh, who to blame? So that we can start to move forward again, we have a bad guy. Now, if there's a bad guy a reason that I'm not the problem, or the kid's not the problem, or the body's not the problem, it's the thing we can blame. Is that. Does that make sense?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:18
Yeah, or the way we even talk about our body as separate from our mind, right? Like my body failed me, even in that statement, we're kind of separating ourselves where our mind and body are actually together, yeah, like we're in and this initial stage of blame and shock like that is part of the body grief. And as I mentioned, I think it would be really exciting and awesome to kind of dig through these concepts, maybe in another episode, but this idea of anger, of blame, that's really normal. There's nothing wrong with that, that is part of the body grief stages, and

Scott Benner 19:54
it's hard for people to just sit in a feeling right like. Whether it's like helplessness or grief or some sort of sadness or something like that. So you blame something, and it actually helps you not to have to just in the, I guess, the wash of not knowing there's like an abyss and nobody, no, it's hard to sit in the abyss and just let it pass. Yes, when

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:16
you're trying to make sense of it, that's just, it's part of, like, even if you were to come out and talk about, like grief, kind of the normal five stages of grief you're in the kind of bargaining stage, right? Like, if only I had done this? What if this person didn't cross the street at this time? Like it is part of your body and mind going through all of the emotions associated with

Scott Benner 20:41
loss, right? And is, and time is really the answer to that issue. Like, I mean, you can find ways through it, like blame something or whatever, but time just has to pass so that the emotions aren't so raw, and then you kind of can go back to, I'm gonna say something really sad. Hold on a second. I've been really stunned as an older person now, realizing how time can make you like can separate you from people who have passed on, no matter how much you kind of want to hold on to them, or their feelings or like the stuff that's happened to them. The truth is, is, if you get through enough time, and I think, and if you're healthy enough to feel the feelings around it, the kind of shame of that is, is that the end of that process, is you not really thinking about that person as much anymore, and like, that is actually the healthiest thing for you, right? Because you can't, like, you know, you can't bring them back, kind of a thing. And anyway, this struck me the other day when my I thought of my friend Mike. I couldn't remember how long he's been gone, and like, I found that, like, instantly I was almost upset at myself, but at the same time, I felt like, well, that's good, because I guess I've worked through everything. It's like, come from his passing. Like, for me, I'm not struck with helplessness or grief or sadness or anything like that anymore, like over his passing, like it's a thing that's it really is just a memory now, I don't know, like he's, he's a memory now he doesn't, he doesn't exist the same way that he did before. Anyway, I was thinking about that, and then I thought, oh gosh, that's gonna happen with my mom someday, because I'm not there yet with her. There'll be a day if I if I'm lucky enough to live long enough, I won't miss my mom the same way I miss her today, or the same or the way I did a year ago, or something like that. I said it to a friend of mine. I wish I could remember exactly what I said to her, but I'm going to see if I can pull it up real quickly. I don't think she would mind. It was so crazy. This was around her birthday, we were like, talking about her birthday, and I just out of nowhere, I said, I said, you know how you can't remember how long it's been since your cat died. One day people will forget you too. Have an awesome day. That's how I said Happy Birthday to her. But it made me think of all that while she and I were going back and forth, just the strangeness that I don't know, like, the longer time passes, the more it fades from your thoughts, and that that's just very human, and it's going to happen, but at the same time, like, I use that same comfort to get through things like this too, like knowing that, like maybe sitting in this is the best thing for me, as long as I don't spin off my axis while I'm dealing with All of it. I don't know that's a long way to go. I'm not sure if I am helping the conversation or not.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:25
So Eve, you're able. I mean, that's kind of like you're kind of giving yourself hope and perspective, even reminding yourself with with Mike, wow, it has been a long time, but you couldn't remember how long. And I remember, or I imagine, that at one point it felt so overwhelming the grief and loss that you couldn't think of anything else, right? Or it was hard to function, I don't know, or whatever, with your mom, that's actually a really kind of a coping mechanism to remind yourself, as hard as it feels now in other areas of your life, where you have gone through all the grief stages, you're giving yourself hope that, okay, it won't feel as hard as it is right now. Yeah, and

Scott Benner 24:07
I think that really applies to the diabetes stuff. Yes, you get diagnosed, and it, like you said, like, maybe, maybe society doesn't let you mourn it like a death, but it certainly feels like it, it's the death of possibility, right? Like, or at least your idea of what was coming like you have, everyone's got a picture of what they think their life's going to be. And as soon as this happens, everyone's first thought is, oh, is my life going to be the same as I thought it was? And the truth lies somewhere between, yeah, there's no reason it can't be and probably not. Like some of it's going to be different, and some of it's going to be absolutely no different at all than it was going to be. But you can't have an experience and not be changed by it. That's for certain. Anyway, I'm so sorry.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:50
No, no, well, I think that's actually a good segue into, you know, when we have talked about it in the past, we would say that's, that's part of the grief process. Mm. I hope as I continue to read more about the book and understand that, like as we name that it's body that is body grief, not only for the person diagnosed with diabetes, but if we move into talking about kind of the partners, or CO parents, the primary caregivers, that is also body grief for not only themselves, but for their child as they kind of experience that sense of loss, of how they envision their child's life to be. And I know we talked a lot about that in the caregiver series, but that sense of wow, I really, I nurtured this child, I cared for them, I burgered them, or I adopted them, and I've fed them, and I envisioned this, this path for them. And now with this diagnosis, there's this sense of loss and and perceived loss of how their child's life will be differently from what they envision. So that is kind of, I would say, body grief through the lens of the caregiver.

Scott Benner 26:05
Yeah, that's something you're not wrong. I mean, you know, we'll talk about, I guess we should move on to partners and CO parents. Yes, yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:12
So obviously, from diagnosis and beyond, kind of how diabetes impacts the parents, the caregivers. Whether you're a single parent, your co parenting or partners, there's the obvious changes in in your work patterns, your sleep patterns, physical and emotional intimacy. There's the division of labor. There might be increased conflict. There might be a question of, like, what kind of parent can I be? Can I do this kind of questioning your capability? And so all of those things, those start immediately right, even in the hospital, and continue on, and how we talk about it with the disenfranchised grief for the parents. I like this quote. We mourn the spontaneous life we had before, but it's hard to say that out loud when your kid is alive and you're supposed to be grateful that sense of WoW, our life has changed. No one really understands it, but we're supposed to be outwardly grateful that now we have a diagnosis and we have an answer. Or Or, how often do we hear, Oh, well, you've got a CGM and an insul pump. Doesn't that make it easier? Yeah, all the time we're supposed to hold this, yeah, we're grateful that they're alive. But yet we know that it impacts all so many layers,

Scott Benner 27:35
right, right? It's, it's that same societal thing, like, you're, you're still alive, so just you can't, you can't complain, right? No, no, there's a lot here to be disappointed by. There's a lot here to be concerned about and to get ready to try to impact and affect and and then, on top of all that, you don't really know what you're doing, and nobody's you know. You probably haven't had diabetes explained well to you, and if you have, it's still probably like scrambled eggs in your brain. You can't really think about it correctly, and so every minute of every day is uncertainty. And on top of that, this other stuff. And like you said, like you're, you know, you're not supposed to complain about it because, like, everybody's alive. This is awesome. Like, you know, could have got hit by a car today, but this happened instead that that sort of feeling also hard to ignore, that a lot of people will never be hit by a car and never have diabetes, right? And how come I didn't get to be that person you know anyway,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:27
I think there, even with this disenfranchised grief, could be even nuanced within two partners, or if you're you know, separated or divorced or co parenting, you know how much you take on who is the primary caregiver and manager of the diabetes, and how does that change over time? Sometimes or oftentimes, there can be a kind of different balance and who does more oftentimes that's really normal and natural and works for families, but there can be kind of further disenfranchised grief around the individual who is taking on kind of the brunt of the responsibility of caregiving

Scott Benner 29:09
that can show up a lot of different ways than people to the body grief, right? It's not just, I mean, you've mentioned a number like anger, shame, you get depressed, right? Some people feel a numbness. It can affect your mental health, sense of identity. I'm imagining confidence that you have out in the world, probably socially, your self image, like it's crazy, that it's not crazy. Crazy is, like, obviously the wrong word, but it's as a an idea that you're just presenting to me now, like, I understand why it's called body grief, but at the same time, like, I can see why that might not make sense to somebody until they really understand the way you the way that grief hits you.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:49
Yes, so I think, well, the way the author, Jane Mattingly, defines it is that body grief is a universal experience, and it happens to anyone. Living in a body which is all of us. And it can be, it can look like so many different things, but it's basically a sense of loss, a loss of freedom, she says, a loss of control, a loss of safety, or a loss of hope. So if we're looking at this from the lens of the person diagnosed there, you might experience all of those things right at different stages right in your life, with diabetes, the loss of freedom, loss of control, loss of safety, loss of hope, and for the caregiver, you might experience that too, particularly if you are managing, if your child's younger, most of it, I think

Scott Benner 30:38
it's important what you just said, too, that it's not like it all happens at once. You don't get diagnosed and have, like, a bad day or a bad month or a bad year, and then it's over. You could wake up 10 years from now and have one of these feelings, yes, yeah. Okay, so it's yeah, a thing to be aware of. And also, you know, when we go back to the topic of, how is this impacting the family, and I think about, like, where the topic came from, which is people online saying, I wish people understood how this impacted my family. I don't think they were even thinking that, you know, when they're asking that question online, or when I was posing it to you. I know I wasn't thinking like this could be very slow waves like this could hit you, and then three years could go by and you'd be okay. And then it might another piece of it might touch you again, and then you might find your way past that, that could continue through your life or not really like and how do you even know when it's I guess you don't see it coming either. Probably just gets on you, at least before you were diagnosed, and then you felt bad. You're like, Oh, I got cause and effect here. But you know what happens when seven years from now, you just suddenly feel like I don't want to take care of myself anymore. I hate this. I'm not doing this, you know? And then people call that burnout. So, oh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:47
you're burned out, right? So, yes, so, I mean with, with burnout, that is so now I would like to call that also the body, the grieving of the body, and how, yes, you're burned out from doing all the things that we need to do to keep ourselves alive, but connected to that is the sense of loss around why can't I just eat something and not think about it? Why do I have to do all these things, I guess, with with the grieving, and whether it's burnout or maybe all of a sudden you have a complication from your diabetes, or you get held up at the airport. I mean, it could be really simple, right, but painful. You can have that moment of like, dang, right? Why do we have to deal with this? So

Scott Benner 32:33
all the other out front arguments like the listen. You know, the most popular post on the Facebook group last week was understanding why the TSA checks your devices to see if they're explosives. In my wildest dreams, I would not have thought that I'd put up a post about that, and it would be as popular and well and but there it is, like it's, you're living your life. You're doing great. We're going away, blah, blah, blah. This is all good. We figured out this. We can Bolus for that. We're all packed up. We know what to do. You gotta swap my what, because you think what, and then there it is. Right now, there's that that grief hits you again. Oh, I am being pulled aside because I have diabetes. I didn't ask for this. I didn't want this. But yet here I am, and I'm being reminded of it again, and then you re open all of the misunderstanding in society again, like it's it all comes rushing back this person swabbing me doesn't understand what I've been through, or my kids been through, and do I want to explain it to them? No, I don't, but I might have to, or I'm going to end up missing my plane and like, oh, it just it gets Oh, look at this. These conversations are great.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:40
And just because it happens maybe one time, right? Like you might, who knows what the other factors are when you're walking through that X ray machine, where some days it might feel extra painful, yeah, and in other times it might just be like, Oh, extra five seconds. Move on, put my shoes back on. And

Scott Benner 33:59
also, it might never happen again, but your dad might be a dick at the airport for the next 10 years, because in the back of his head, he's like, waiting for this thing to happen. He knows all the other the feelings and the that are gonna come from this one like, one moment, even just the dread of, like, is this gonna happen? Like, am I gonna get pulled out of this line? Am I not? I can't believe I didn't. Then you get to the next place, then the next person grabs you, or whatever. Oh, wow, this is very interesting. Do

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:25
you want to do under what? For the first time ever, I didn't have to do that, and I and we plan I go first before the next three family members in line, because I know I'll take an extra few minutes. And I went first, anticipating. And they didn't ask me to touch my pump, but I was wearing the new Moby ever like they were like, Okay, you're good. And I kept walking. I didn't touch my Dexcom or my pump.

Scott Benner 34:49
Erica turned back, and she's like, how do you know this isn't a bomb? You people aren't even doing a good job. Yeah, I know. I was like, Wait, aren't you gonna swap me? I need to be swabbed so you care about the plane. I'm. Sometimes,

Speaker 1 35:00
yes, I could lean that way, like, Wait, come on, check.

Scott Benner 35:04
I swear this won't vlog. Test it. Test it. Go ahead. This conversation is really interesting to me, because it should be to anybody who's listening, actually, I hope. But the idea that, like, there's little grenades all over life that are waiting to blow up in front of you that you're not aware of, but yet, somehow there's this thing buried in the back of your brain that knows that this is gonna be, like, it's that's why, like, when a device errors out of nowhere, it's so annoying. It's not because, like, I gotta pop the thing off and fill up another thing and slap it back on like, That's bullshit. It only takes a couple minutes. Not a big deal. It's the waiting to get slapped in the face for no reason, like it always exists a little bit. And it's funny, because Arden had a pod error the other night, the middle of the night, and I get a text from her dad my pot error, I'm so tired. And I was like, okay, and then I fell back asleep. And then an hour and a half later, we woke up and her blood sugar is, like, 320 so I went downstairs, I got insulin, and I put it in a pod, and I brought it up, and I woke her up, and I'm like, alright, and I'm sorry I fell asleep. Your blood sugar is really high. Like, we're gonna have to swap this and, like, make a pretty big Bolus. And then I realized, if we're gonna make a really big Bolus, that's great, but if the Bolus doesn't work, she's gonna keep going up. So now I'm gonna sit up and wait to see if the Bolus works. And now that's four in the morning, and now I'm up till 6am now the sun's coming up, and I'm pissed because the sun's coming up, but I haven't gotten any sleep yet. And all of that, like, you know, happens we live through all that. And you say, oh, Scott, that sucks. Like, but I've been through that before. Like, I would say that, you know, I don't care, whatever. It's fine. But then the next day, she was going out somewhere, and I said, Is there any chance you'll stay the night at your friend's house? And she goes, No. And I said, You're sure, because sometimes she'll go to her friends and then spend the night not say and I actually said out loud, because you know, no one expected that pod not to work last night. So if you're going to spend the night, you got to take spares with you. And she looked at me, and she was like, I'm not spending the night. And then she left, but she was pissed, like, and I was pissed. We were all pissed because you're trying to plan for getting slapped in the face out of nowhere. Like, really, like, that's what it feels like, right? Like, it feel, it feels like somebody's gonna come up to you for no reason whatsoever, and just say to you, yeah, I know you haven't thought of this in a while, but yeah, your daughter has diabetes. And then shake you really hard and make it, make everything feel like a snow globe, and then go, Okay, now keep living again. That is what it's like, yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:33
All right, yes. And in again, depending on where you're at, like, there was fatigue, there is stress. That could be, you know, just a blip on the radar of, like, ah, you know, this thing failed. I'm so frustrated. Or it can go deeper to I can't trust my body, or my body failed, right? And that in this naming it, naming it again,

Scott Benner 37:56
cascade, yeah, yeah. And, you know, the funny thing is, is, I don't find it frustrating intellectually, because she's been wearing an Omnipod since she was four. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this doesn't happen with any frequency. It probably won't happen again this year. It could. And I think that's the piece of it. Like, even, like, putting on a device, like, people are like, Oh, it doesn't hurt. Sometimes it does. But even though it doesn't hurt most of the time, but once in a while, it does your expectation. Every time you do it is, oh, this it's gonna hurt, yeah. And then it doesn't, you go, Oh, it didn't hurt, but you still have to live through the whole process of, oh, this is yeah. All right, what do we got? Keep going, Okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:29
so these are, I know we're kind of doing this, this high level, how it impacts each kind of subgroup, from the individual, discussing the parents, the caregivers, I think the impact between the partners in how you know, the fatigue and the stress and the conflict, and how you know, I want to manage it this way, but they want to manage it that way. That isn't necessarily discussed a lot, and I think that is a really beyond the normal understanding of how a caregiver, how it impacts a caregiver taking care of the child with diabetes, that the partner conflict, or even if you're co parenting and the children are going back and forth, is really significant in terms of how it can impact the relationship between the partners. So just, I think it's important to kind of validate that, and that if you are struggling, though you guys are, you're not alone in that space, and there is hope to work through it. But I think just initially understanding that, oh, this is we're experiencing grief, whether it's disenfranchised, grief, body grief, our own, maybe past trauma is coming out right now.

Scott Benner 39:40
Oh yeah, definitely gonna happen. And it's easy to say we're on the same team, right until you think, the thing you think is gonna save someone's life and the thing they think isn't. And you look over and you go, Oh, that's the girl I've been going out with since she was 20. I love her, but she's wrong, and she's gonna kill the kid and like. And then, boom, you just and you. You're not, usually not, right? Like, usually either thing would have helped. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's the thing, the thing she thinks would help, the thing I think would help. But you get in that, like, fight or flight situation, you're like, I've had an idea about how to save us. I trust myself. This is the thing we should be doing. And then everybody else is an enemy at that point. So, yes, yeah, I hear you.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:21
Okay. So moving on from caregivers, partners, co parents to the siblings. Oh,

Scott Benner 40:29
another upbeat topic, yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:33
So this, I think we can call it kind of like the invisible impact. So you know, a lot of a lot of you are really aware of how the diagnosis impacts your other children, and you, you do your best to kind of give that person time and honor them, that the other siblings, your other children. But it it can and really normal. It's normal for the other children to experience some of that, either their own grief, maybe jealousy, that not necessarily jealousy of the diabetes, although that could happen, right? Like I'm jealous of my sibling having diabetes, because, look, mommy and daddy pay attention to them all the time and and maybe also demonstrate some some either depression or anxiety and their own behaviors, because either a they're experiencing their own grief and they don't know how to communicate it, or don't feel like they're allowed to, or they might

Scott Benner 41:22
be worried it's going to happen to them too, that that could easily happen as well. Yes, I'll take you down to the beginning of this conversation. I told you about the picture at Yosemite. And how is it going to change things that you that there's no way you can like expect, or maybe even sometimes get in front of? And as an example, you know, in more recent years, we've been talking about this stuff in like, you know, in a rear view mirror with our kids. And my son definitely feels like he was ignored. And because Arden needed more help, or we had, there was times that, you know, we'd go somewhere and, like, something would happen, like, oh, we have to stop for a minute till Arden's blood sugar comes up, or we have to change a thing, or something like that. And the amount of effort and time that my wife and I put into over doing it for him to make sure that it didn't feel like that, like once he said, as an adult, like, you know, I definitely felt like you were paying more attention to Arden than me. I was like, Oh my god. How is that even possible? Did you see the brown spots on my cheeks. This is just son from standing on a baseball field. I've been with Cole like every step of the way, at everything he's done and needed us for, and some of the things he probably didn't need us for, and yet his memory is he got a little less than she did. And I was like, Oh, it was so defeating. I was like, because we put so much effort into that not being the case, I don't think like actual physical acts can overcome the feeling that comes and then, by the way, the irony is, what Arden remembers is that we spent way more time at Coles baseball games than with her. And I was like, You gotta be kidding me. Yes, it was like, Oh, my God, I'm like, your a 1c has been in the fives forever. Like, we're ahead of, like, the curve on every one of your health issues. You're doing things right now the people won't be doing as a matter of course, for 10 more years with GLP medications. And look how well it's helping it. That's because of how much effort and like attention we've put but she doesn't see that as her she sees that as the diabetes, right? And like, and at the same time I stood like this. The rest of this is from this time I stood in a softball field, right? Boy. It just made me feel like Erica, like, no matter what you do, the opposite is going to be the thing the person wanted. And I know that's not true, like, right? Like, but it just feels like, it feels like no matter what you do, someone's going to tell you the thing you didn't. Do, and that that feels like a very human response, like this was not perfect. Let me tell you about the stuff that I still hurt from. It doesn't mean I shouldn't have done the things that we did right like, I think what we did was great, and trust me, had we not done them, things would be terrible, and things aren't terrible right now. Like, they're good and everybody is adjusted and living their lives as well as they can, based on the idea that one of us got a lifelong illness that has to be managed day to day. Like, seriously, like, I think we are is good of a place as we could possibly be. But there's no doubt that if I get in a time machine, go back to Yosemite, take a magic pill. Arden doesn't get type one. This didn't happen, but I would bet you that some version of it happens. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I would bet in another universe there's a family like us where Arden doesn't have diabetes, and the son is saying, I don't know, I remember you spending much more time with her. And her saying, I remember you spending much more time with him. I don't know that you can avoid that. Maybe

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:41
I don't know, right? Is that that might be just normal sibling.

Scott Benner 44:46
Maybe that's just the price of doing business,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:50
right? But then I'm also thinking about, you know, as kind of thinking about your children where they are in their life stages. You could also like that is part of you. His disenfranchised grief, right? Like, that's and that's also maybe part of his kind of perceived not again, it wasn't his body that was diagnosed, but he experienced a sense of loss, yeah, to name that for him, like that. Like, wow. Like, cool. That's part of your disenfranchised grief, that feeling like we spent more time with Arden and trying to keep her alive, that, you know. And so it doesn't make it some bad or wrong. And part of doing business having more than one child,

Scott Benner 45:29
we brought this up after we picked our heads up off the table, because it got said, and you just heard like, that was my head just hitting the table. I was like, oh my god, I tried so hard. Like, I can't believe we're still standing here. We did talk through it like we had that conversation. You know, it's much like what we talked about earlier, is, I think this is the feelings, right? Like this is the part where you're sitting in the abyss of the feelings, and you have to live through it, and one day he won't feel like that about it anymore, but that day could be 15 years from now. It might take him having his own kids to fully, you know, get through the process to figure it out, or whatever. I'm just trying to stay alive long enough for somebody to come up to me afterwards and go, Hey, not bad. And I'll go, thank you. And I don't even know if that'll happen. I'm sure, I'm sure that a lot of people don't get to live long enough to watch their kids come full circle. And then have to, on top of that, realize that the last bit of this full circle is to go find your parents and tell them, hey, I get it. Now. That really is what you're waiting for as a parent. Like you're waiting for somebody to come tell you, you know, I saw what you did there, and I get it pretty much it. Or, thank you, you know. I mean, that would be a bonus. Like, I would take a meal even, and no, thank you. Like, I mean, just like, especially with what the restaurants are costing nowadays, this one meal and a nod, like, it just, I see what happened here. Thank you. Yeah, I don't know, like, and not everybody gets to live long enough to close those circles and and not everybody gets to it, and even tries so

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:58
well, I know we work so hard, right, as you did in trying to attend to both of your children's needs and give them what they needed, emotionally, physically, logistically, medically, right? And we work so hard to prevent and protect them from pain, but they both have experienced less right and pain as a result, and that's okay, yeah. Like he is so even as he reflects back, gosh, you spent more time with Arden, perhaps he doesn't feel that significant loss as much as he did, maybe at moments when he was a little boy. But also, it's okay, like it's he, he worked through it. He can communicate. You can validate that you love him equally.

Scott Benner 47:42
It's important to live in that idea not to look backwards and say, Oh, me, you mean, you mean to tell me there was a 14 year old boy that felt like that. I didn't know. I hear what you're saying. And I would implore people to not look backwards like once you've gotten out of a problem, don't go back and punish yourself about it again, if you can at all help it, because, like you said, like he is okay, you know, like he's not struggling. And if he was then voicing this stuff may be the only way to pull him through it, too.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:12
And you could even, I think, whether you're on that kind of the other side of it, so to speak, where you guys are maybe, or when they're younger, too. I think giving the siblings permission to have space, to hate diabetes, to like I think that can be maybe scary for some families to invite or give permission to the siblings to say it's okay, like we see that you're you're, maybe you're not as you're we're not giving you as much time, or you feel like we're not we're abandoning you, or it's okay, like, let's all you know, going back to letting the siblings write the letter to diabetes and how much they hate it, yeah, I think just giving everyone permission to have their sense of grief and loss around the diagnosis, it's going to look different For every single family member at different ages and stages, but giving them permission, I think, is a big step and then and naming it.

Scott Benner 49:08
Yeah, awesome. Anything left for siblings?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:10
I think, oh, just one thought of, you know, caregivers who have siblings, kind of, I know, but let's get one step beyond in terms of the family system. We're thinking about for caregivers who have adult siblings who either are really close, or maybe not as close, I know that can be really impactful sometimes, where you might look to your immediate family members for that love and support and understanding, and that can be Another can be really helpful, but also that sometimes can shift that dynamic momentarily, right? Like, let's say you're you have your your adult siblings, and you've been so close, and you guys went through so much together. No one else knows what it's like to grow up together with your parents, and then your one child gets diagnosed, and they might not understand it. Right to the level that you need them to. So I think that's just that might not happen all the time, but just I felt like it was significant enough to name,

Scott Benner 50:08
feeling let down by that too, right? You could turn to that person, they could be like, ah, at least it's not cancer, and you'd be like, yeah, oh my gosh. That's not what I needed from this, right? Erica, before we move on to grandparents and extend a family, true or false, if we all just had autonomous sex style and a cave to live in by ourselves, we'd feel better.

Speaker 1 50:27
Oh, we'd be so lonely, though. You know, maybe the dog can talk. My

Scott Benner 50:36
gosh, you picked the weirdest profession, like trying to understand the inner mingling of people's thoughts and emotions is it's a never ending bowl of spaghetti. It feels like you know, all right, all right. Grandparents and extended family older generations may handle the shock of medical diagnosis. Go ahead, they may not fully understand what

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:57
right? So they, I think we hear this a lot of they have their own sense of grief, again, whether it's the disenfranchised grief, where they might have this image and vision of how they want to take care of their grandchildren, like, you know, be that, be the grandparents that show up with the candy, be the grandparents that kind of just like the carefree, like they worked really hard, You know, I don't know, kind of stereotyping, but I hear

Scott Benner 51:23
what you're saying, like I had kids so that their kids would bring me a beer. That's all I was was hoping for,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:28
right? And so they, they have their own sense of or maybe they're, they're local, or maybe they're multi generational household that can cause a lot of stress. Of, you know, they might not understand it. So then they kind of go through their own sense of either failure or disappointment in their identity as a grandparent, of, how am I going to support my child? How am I going to support my grandchild? I've worked hard all my life so it and that's totally fair and valid. So just naming that sense of of grief, they might look at their peers, right grandparents who just, you know, get to show up, be carefree and but learning either a new way to if they are hands on, you know, grandparents or kind of multi generational caregivers, it's a lot, right, particularly how technical and mathematical and all these things that are really hard to understand that might be really challenging

Scott Benner 52:25
right now, I can tell you that the stories that I hear from people about their parents don't know what to do, and then that's frustrating to them, and you never really stop to think about how frustrating it is to the grandparents, right? Like the people who, by the way, your kid is that has diabetes, they feel bad for their children, and then they feel bad for their grandchildren. And then on top of that, even though society would say we're not allowed to, they have to feel bad for themselves, like, right for the disenfranchised grief, they have to be like, Oh, but they probably have body grief over hell, over what's happened to you, over what's happened to their grandchild. And then they get the disenfranchised grief as well over what happened to their lives. Yes, because this isn't what I expected. Yes, I will tell you this my father in law, who has passed away recently. He was not a very emotional person, like giving with his feelings and his thoughts, but I could tell that once he saw the effort we were putting into raising our kids. He stopped thinking I was his head. And I thought that was kind of nice, like, like, you knew, like, at first he just was like, this, you know, I mean, listen, my daughter has a boyfriend. I know what he was thinking. Like, you know what I mean? And, and then, even after you get married, it doesn't just magically go, I'm like, still, some guy pawned his daughter, you know, when's this guy going to show his value? And then, you know, we have kids, and we're doing a at least, listen, as good a job as we could do. And probably familiarly to my, my father in law, we we probably look like the parents of the year, you know what I mean, like, compared to what he grew up with. So he's like, all right, these two are taking good care of these kids. I think that's the first time he saw me as not like, not predatory, but like, not valuable in this like, you know what I mean? Like, until then, I was just the guy taking advantage of his daughter one way or the other. Like, and by the way, I was a stay at home dad, too. So go back a couple of generations, I just look like a sponge to him. And then he's like, one day he said, he said to us, like, you guys do really good job with these kids. And I was like, Oh, thanks. And then I could see him, he started treating me differently. It took for that to happen, but still, in all, he didn't know a damn thing about Arden's diabetes. And, yeah, I mean, I didn't see that. He even had the bandwidth to try to understand it, to be perfectly honest, like he kept his, you know, distance from it so and that I'm sure was hurtful for my wife, you know, anyway, again, sex doll in a cave, and you're saying, and somebody to talk to, that's all we need, yeah, and then I don't have to, like, I don't have to coexist with other people's feelings and emotions, honestly, you know, I was thinking as as you were talking, like, even if you could fit. Saw this. Like, if you could snap your fingers and make it so that people didn't feel this grief, or if they did, somebody else didn't judge it or not be supportive of it. Like, I don't even know what life would like you ever think of like, What would life be without all this? Is this life like, Do you know what I mean like, is, is this? Is this the thing we're doing, like, the trying to figure each other out and be as happy as possible and supportive as possible. Like, is that the whole game?

Speaker 1 55:27
Oh my gosh. Erica, well, I mean, yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:31
oh my gosh, yes. I think we all want to be as happy as possible. But also, grief is something that that can't be fixed, and that's, that's the hard part, right? But it can be felt. It can be named. It can be felt. It can be we can offer ourselves and each other empathy and compassion, and that's moving through it, right? Yeah, but we it's hard to wrestle with and hard to feel.

Scott Benner 55:55
It's difficult for me. I can only speak for myself personally that to know that life, it feels like you're trying to mold something out of clay, but we never get to the part where we turn it into something. We just keep molding it. Like, does that make sense? Like you just like something happens and you go, Okay, I gotta live through this. I have to try to understand it. I'll apply it my life. Hopefully people around me won't get sick of me while I'm trying to figure it out, or I won't be snippy with them, or whatever happens. Oh my God, look. I wake up the next day. We're all still here. This is awesome. Nobody died, nobody got hit by a car. Then the next thing happens, the next thing happens, and and then you start, you know, this is very trite to say, but as you get older, it all starts to make sense. And then as soon as it starts to make sense, you are hit with the idea of, like, Oh, I'm gonna die. Like, I've just starting to get this figured out. Like, I'll joke on the podcast all the time. I've only been an adult for like, five years. I'm really starting to understand things. I almost joked with you earlier, before I had this thought that we only had two kids, and I think that's pretty good, like, because it was a lot to deal with, but if you gave me a third one, I'd be an awesome dad to the third one. Like, I really think I could get it, like, really, like, fix a lot of, like, hiccups. And the irony is that if I did that, the other two would be pissed, because they'd be like, Oh, sure, you know what I mean, like, when, like, you know, like, when, yeah, I don't know. You look up in some famous guys in his 70s, and he's a good dad, and you see his 30 year old son is like, well, he was a coke head. When I got him, I actually thought for a second, like, I bet you, almost effortlessly, I could do a 3000 times better job raising a baby right now, but then my kids would be upset with me, and they'd hate the kid over it too. Sex style in a cave. Is someone to talk to? Is there anything else, like crackers? Maybe we just need crackers and a bottle of water, right? We'll do it. Okay. All right, all right, all right. Do you have anything you want to save you for research?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:47
No, oh yes, I do. I think it's easy. We, as we kind of validate and and we kind of define, identify, define and validate every person's grief journey in relation to the diagnosis. I think this is understood, but I think important to say, we never want to make the person with diabetes feel like it's their fault. That can be absorbed pretty easily. If I'm thinking of you, maybe younger children, you know, if they're seeing everyone cry and grieve, and I'm not necessarily. I'm not suggesting you go hide in a corner, but as you do, kind of validate one another's or kind of in the multi generational family system, impact of diabetes that we it's about the diabetes and that it's not, it's not little Joey's fault.

Scott Benner 58:36
Yeah, yeah. Don't. Don't put that on your kid. Then don't worry, your mom will put it on you anyway. What'd you give? Him? Awesome. Mom, thanks, right, right. Yeah, it's great, mom, really, I've been waiting 40 years for you to come through. That's what you got, huh? All right, listen, people are laughing right now because their parents

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 59:00
or they're working hard to understand it.

Scott Benner 59:02
You know, what the truth is, is that I believe that, I think, even, like, the crappiest parent that somebody had, I think in their quiet moments, are thinking about, like, like, What didn't I understand here? Like, what did I not do or, and, you know, it's a completely other conversation, but I think that, you know, we ask, it's interesting that there's a there's a spectrum of intelligence and a spectrum of emotional intelligence, and yet we expect everybody to do exactly the right thing all the time. And I don't think that leaves enough space for appreciating that people are often doing the best they can, and that you could, you know, if you could just give away your expectations for five seconds, you could find a way to love that person for, you know, what they tried to give you? Because it's not going to matter, like, I'm a my kids are going to, you know, are going to have a moment where they're like, I got a guy's a moron. They did everything wrong, and it's just going to feel that way. So I try to remember that, because. Because I figured that out early enough in life to tell my mom that I that, you know, the things that we talked about earlier, and it's very freeing for me as an older person. So I hope everybody gets to that spot in enough time to tell somebody, yes, you're awesome, especially to put up with me, although I think my I think I am making a good point. But for people have so many thoughts and feelings like there's a lot to balance.

Speaker 1 1:00:27
It really is all right. Hold on a second. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:00:38
The conversation you just heard was sponsored by touched by type one. Check them out please. At touched by type one.org, on Instagram and Facebook, you're gonna love them. I love them. They're helping so many people. At touched by type one.org, summertime is right around the corner, and Omnipod five is the only tube free automated insulin delivery system in the United States, because it's tube free, it's also waterproof, and it goes wherever you go. Learn more at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, that's right. Omnipod is sponsoring this episode of the podcast, and at my link, you can get a free starter kit. Terms and Conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox, the podcast episode that you just enjoyed was sponsored by ever since CGM. They make the ever since 365 that thing lasts a whole year. One insertion every year. Come on. You probably feel like I'm messing with you, but I'm not. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe. Will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend, and if you leave a five star review, ooh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? Hey, kids, listen up. You've made it to the end of the podcast. You must have enjoyed it. You know? What else you might enjoy? The private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. I know you're thinking, uh, Facebook, Scott, please. But no. Beautiful group, wonderful people, a fantastic community Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Of course, if you have type two, are you touched by diabetes in any way? You're absolutely welcome. It's a private group, so you'll have to answer a couple of questions before you come in. We make sure you're not a bot or an evildoer. Then you're on your way. You'll be part of the family. Hey, what's up, everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better, and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way recording doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you wrong wayrecording.com, you got a podcast. You want somebody to edit it? You want rob you?