#1735 To The Moon And Back - Part 2
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
In Part 2, Laurel shares her son's diagnosis story and explores how growing up in a cult impacts her approach to parenting and diabetes management.
+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner (0:0) Welcome back, friends. (0:01) You are listening to the Juice Box podcast.
Jenny Smith (0:14) Hi. (0:14) I'm Laurel. (0:15) My 14 year old son, was diagnosed with type one diabetes about a year and a half ago, so we're still pretty new in the journey.
Scott Benner (0:24) This is part two of a two part episode. (0:27) Go look at the title. (0:28) If you don't recognize it, you haven't heard part one yet. (0:31) It's probably the episode right before this in your podcast player. (0:35) Check out my algorithm pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod five, Loop, Medtronic seven eighty g, Twist, Tandem Control IQ, and much more.
Scott Benner (0:48) Each episode will dive into the setup, features, and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type one diabetes management. (0:55) We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences, and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care. (1:02) If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the algorithm pumping series in the Juice Box podcast. (1:08) Easiest way, juiceboxpodcast.com, and go up into the menu. (1:11) Click on series, and it'll be right there.
Scott Benner (1:14) Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juice Box podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. (1:20) Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. (1:27) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g seven, the same CGM that my daughter wears. (1:36) Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox. (1:40) Today's episode is also sponsored by the Omnipod five.
Scott Benner (1:44) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free, what I just say, a free Omnipod five starter kit. (1:54) Free? (1:55) Get out of here. (1:56) Go click on that link. (1:57) Omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (1:59) Check it out. (2:00) Terms and conditions apply. (2:01) Eligibility may vary. (2:03) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (2:08) Links in the show notes.
Scott Benner (2:09) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com. (2:12) The so is there any autoimmune in your parents or, like, their sides of the family, anything like that?
Jenny Smith (2:17) So all I know so my grandmother on my dad's side had Sjogren's.
Scott Benner (2:22) Okay.
Jenny Smith (2:22) That's the only one that I know of for sure.
Scott Benner (2:25) How about you?
Jenny Smith (2:27) I, I don't. (2:29) Although, every time that I go and get, blood test, my b 12 is low, and then they test me for celiac, and then it comes up negative. (2:39) So
Scott Benner (2:39) Do you have celiac implications?
Jenny Smith (2:41) I did when my when my type one, when he when I was pregnant with him, I had a lot of, like, gastro issues. (2:49) Mhmm. (2:49) And that was the first time that they tested me for it.
Scott Benner (2:52) Okay.
Jenny Smith (2:53) But it all came up negative. (2:55) So, again, I'm like, I don't know.
Scott Benner (2:58) No gestational diabetes for you?
Jenny Smith (3:00) No gestational diabetes. (3:02) No.
Scott Benner (3:02) This boy that someone stuck you to? (3:04) Yeah. (3:05) He have any autoimmune stuff on his side?
Jenny Smith (3:08) Not that we know of. (3:10) I think there's some type two in his Japanese side. (3:13) He's he's half Japanese. (3:15) So
Scott Benner (3:16) Oh, that was that part of the plan thing where your parents like, hey. (3:19) Tell me or is that just who you were attracted to?
Jenny Smith (3:21) No. (3:22) It just happened that way. (3:23) There's a lot of half half Japanese boys.
Scott Benner (3:27) You're like, Scott, you can't get away from them. (3:29) I gotta be honest.
Jenny Smith (3:30) You can't. (3:30) You really can't.
Scott Benner (3:31) The place is I was filthy with them. (3:32) They're everywhere. (3:33) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (3:34) Being a little being a little white girl in there, I was I was outnumbered.
Scott Benner (3:37) Oh.
Jenny Smith (3:38) I Okay. (3:38) There was there was very much of a a a hierarchy too. (3:42) Like, the Asians were the top, especially the Koreans. (3:46) They were the the sort of golden children of the cult. (3:49) Oh.
Jenny Smith (3:49) Anyway
Scott Benner (3:50) yeah. (3:50) Wait. (3:51) This is not gonna sound right, but these aren't my words. (3:53) They're just like, well, I'm just I'm just following the story. (3:56) Did they prefer the white girls, or what was the how did that work out?
Jenny Smith (4:00) Who the Korean?
Scott Benner (4:01) The Well, whoever's on top, they get choice. (4:04) Right? (4:04) Isn't that how world isn't that how the world
Jenny Smith (4:06) works? (4:06) Yeah. (4:06) Yeah. (4:06) Yeah. (4:07) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (4:07) No. (4:07) They they wanted to keep every so reverend Moon, like, matched his own children, his Korean children to other Koreans mostly. (4:14) Like, he didn't want
Scott Benner (4:15) yeah. (4:16) I see that that being, inclusive, that was for other people.
Jenny Smith (4:19) That was for other people.
Scott Benner (4:20) Exactly. (4:21) Okay.
Jenny Smith (4:21) All again, he's got a whole very sordid sexual history past. (4:26) So, like, he did the he did the, you know, more stereotypical, like, sex cult thing for himself in his early days and then said, oh, no. (4:35) You guys have to do the purity culture.
Scott Benner (4:37) Wait. (4:37) Did he have a bunch of kids with different ladies?
Jenny Smith (4:39) Yeah. (4:40) Oh,
Scott Benner (4:40) yeah. (4:41) Yeah. (4:41) That seems like a problem to me. (4:42) I have enough trouble just dealing with my wife. (4:44) You know what I mean?
Scott Benner (4:45) Like, I Uh-huh. (4:46) I can't have seven or eight ladies yelling at me about stuff. (4:49) That would not I wouldn't be able to put up with that. (4:52) And I don't mean put up with it. (4:54) I mean, like, it would I would go crazy.
Jenny Smith (4:56) Yeah. (4:56) Well, it was you know, it's yeah. (4:58) It's bad stuff. (4:59) And then his Jeez. (5:00) I mean, his current the woman that he eventually married who had, like, 13 kids with him.
Scott Benner (5:05) Wow.
Jenny Smith (5:07) Yeah.
Scott Benner (5:07) How many kids do you think he has? (5:09) Hold on, man. (5:09) Hold on. (5:10) I'm gonna find out.
Jenny Smith (5:10) I don't know for sure. (5:12) I can't the the number off of the top of my head, but he definitely has at least two or three other kids from other marriages or women.
Scott Benner (5:22) His Wikipedia entry says 16 children.
Jenny Smith (5:25) 16? (5:25) Yeah. (5:26) That sounds about right.
Scott Benner (5:26) My goodness. (5:27) Okay. (5:28) Well,
Jenny Smith (5:29) Yeah. (5:30) And Sam Park is is one of he's one of his children from another woman who has actually spoken out about him a lot and and told his story. (5:41) So he's a good person to to look up if you wanna hear his story.
Scott Benner (5:44) Yeah. (5:45) Listen. (5:45) If you guys wanna know more, then, I mean, leave me out of it because I can't really help you beyond this.
Jenny Smith (5:51) Yeah. (5:51) I can send you to all of the different resources. (5:53) It's a very sordid and complicated Laurel. (5:56) History.
Scott Benner (5:57) I will not be thinking twice about this after this is over, just so know.
Jenny Smith (6:00) I don't blame you.
Scott Benner (6:01) Thank you. (6:02) You're so
Jenny Smith (6:03) Where were we? (6:04) I don't
Scott Benner (6:04) remember what. (6:05) No. (6:05) I do. (6:05) Don't worry. (6:05) I got the whole thing in my head.
Scott Benner (6:07) Your son, he's diagnosed at what age?
Jenny Smith (6:09) So it was right before he turned 13. (6:12) So it was June 17. (6:15) He was 12, and then his birthday is on the thirtieth.
Scott Benner (6:17) Okay. (6:18) And what year? (6:19) How long ago?
Jenny Smith (6:20) So that was 2024, not that
Scott Benner (6:22) long ago. (6:22) Oh, just recently. (6:23) Okay.
Jenny Smith (6:23) It's only yeah. (6:24) Only been, like, a year and a half.
Scott Benner (6:26) What were your first indications then?
Jenny Smith (6:28) The first things that we noticed was he was getting really, really tired. (6:31) He was just tired all the time, and we thought, oh, he's just, like, becoming a teenager. (6:39) You know? (6:39) Or he was in soccer, so he's, like, playing a lot of soccer. (6:43) But then it just kept getting worse.
Jenny Smith (6:44) And then there was one day when he I let him stay home from school, and he slept the entire day, which was very weird for him. (6:52) He was he was a really active kid. (6:55) And then after that, he was getting headaches and just sort of, like, not feeling well.
Scott Benner (7:01) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (7:01) And this went on for several weeks because we weren't sort of picking it up. (7:06) You know? (7:06) And there were some days when he would feel better and then other days when he would feel worse. (7:12) And then it was one weekend. (7:14) We went to the pool, and I just saw how skinny he was.
Jenny Smith (7:21) He was, like, skin and bones. (7:24) Mhmm. (7:24) You know? (7:25) And his face was, like, pale, and he just did not look good. (7:29) And I thought, there's something wrong here.
Jenny Smith (7:32) I was thinking, like, does he have mono or something? (7:34) But he never had, like, a fever or you know, I was like, there's just there's something wrong. (7:39) So I made an appointment with the pediatrician for, like, Monday morning, took him out of school at the pediatrician. (7:46) She, you know, did a bunch of tests, and then the last thing she did was a, you know, a finger stick to check his blood sugar. (7:53) And then she said, I'm sending you to the hospital immediately.
Jenny Smith (7:57) Wow. (7:58) Yeah.
Scott Benner (7:58) Quick diagnosis. (7:59) That's that's not bad. (8:01) I mean, once you get them in front of the doctor, I'm saying, the the time in between is is, you know, about the way it goes usually. (8:07) You think you see something, you're not sure. (8:10) It comes, it goes, the whole thing.
Jenny Smith (8:12) Right.
Scott Benner (8:12) Off to the hospital, DKA, not DKA. (8:15) Where were we?
Jenny Smith (8:16) DKA. (8:17) His blood sugar was seven so in the seven hundreds, high seven hundreds.
Scott Benner (8:22) That'll do it.
Jenny Smith (8:23) And so he was we were in the PICU for, the first twenty four hours just, you know, getting his blood sugar under control, and, you know, his liver was in distress, all of that.
Scott Benner (8:37) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (8:37) And then, eventually, we were able to move to the regular children's wing, and we were there for another three or four days
Scott Benner (8:45) Oh gosh.
Jenny Smith (8:46) While we got, all of the diabetes education and learned, yeah, learned how to do everything. (8:53) And he like, after that first twenty four hours, I mean, he just he was do like, I could just tell you. (9:00) Like, the color came back to his face. (9:02) He was, like, feeling better. (9:05) He's like, oh my god.
Jenny Smith (9:06) This is you know?
Scott Benner (9:07) Much better.
Jenny Smith (9:08) Yeah. (9:09) Much better. (9:09) Much better.
Scott Benner (9:10) If you were still in the church and you were, like Yeah. (9:13) Like, all in, all in Yeah. (9:15) How would they talk about managing diabetes? (9:17) Would it be a problem or no? (9:20) Like, would they tell you your because you were talking earlier about, like, your body Yeah.
Scott Benner (9:23) Like, you know, like and and how to, like, you know
Jenny Smith (9:26) Yeah.
Scott Benner (9:26) Yeah. (9:27) I'm wondering.
Jenny Smith (9:27) When I was growing up, there was a lot there's and there definitely still is a lot of sort of, like, people who get on the train of, like, oh, all diseases and illness are caused by evil spirits and stuff like that. (9:40) So there's there's definitely an influence of that there. (9:44) I also knew you know, once my son was diagnosed, I remembered that there were kids growing that I grew up with in the cult who also had type one diabetes.
Scott Benner (9:54) Okay.
Jenny Smith (9:55) And I, like, thought about their experience, and a couple of them actually, like, reached out to me. (10:00) And I, you know, I talked with them a little bit. (10:02) One of my friends was you know, I was talking with her and about things, and she was like, yeah. (10:08) You know, he's so lucky to have you because I was kind of on my own as a kid, and she was also about 12 when she was diagnosed. (10:15) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (10:16) So, yeah, I think the, you know, the combination of not knowing as much back then, they're not being as good technology, but then also, like, having parents that are just so wrapped up in the church stuff.
Scott Benner (10:35) Yeah. (10:35) Other stuff.
Jenny Smith (10:36) And you're having to fend for yourself a lot. (10:38) You know? (10:38) I had to fend for myself a lot with all kinds of things, and and I didn't have a chronic illness. (10:44) So Right. (10:44) You know?
Scott Benner (10:45) Oh, so, it sucks. (10:46) How did he handle being diagnosed? (10:48) Did you start with any kind of technology, or how are you managing today?
Jenny Smith (10:52) I mean, he was really good. (10:54) He from the very beginning, he's he's a great kid. (10:57) He's he's definitely gone through periods, especially in the beginning of of just being, like, frustrated and stuff. (11:05) But for the most part, he manages really well. (11:08) And I think in the beginning, he was just so relieved to feel better.
Jenny Smith (11:11) Yeah. (11:12) We got our Dexcom about a week after we left the hospital. (11:18) We were MDI for about the first three months, and then we got on Omnipod. (11:24) K. (11:24) And so we've been we've been on that ever since.
Scott Benner (11:27) Omnipod five? (11:28) It's automated?
Jenny Smith (11:29) Omnipod five. (11:29) Yeah. (11:30) Yeah.
Scott Benner (11:31) Is your husband involved in the manage? (11:33) Like, who if like, who knows more about it? (11:35) You, your husband, your son?
Jenny Smith (11:36) Definitely me. (11:38) My husband knows a lot too, but he's not around as much as I am, you know? (11:45) So he works full time and I work part time. (11:48) So I'm Okay. (11:50) I'm here more often.
Jenny Smith (11:51) And and I'm usually the one, like, shuttling him back and forth to the endocrinologist and everything. (11:56) So he's old enough now that he he likes to manage a lot on his own, good and bad because, you know, it's
Scott Benner (12:05) He's not as good at as you are?
Jenny Smith (12:08) Exactly. (12:10) He's a teenager, and I don't want to push too much. (12:15) You know? (12:16) Well, you And it it and
Scott Benner (12:17) You might have a very unique perspective on that.
Jenny Smith (12:20) For sure. (12:21) I I do feel like I lean on the side of wanting him to have his autonomy because
Scott Benner (12:30) You grew up in a cult.
Jenny Smith (12:32) Exactly. (12:32) Exactly. (12:33) So so, yeah, sometimes I I'm like, am I like, should I be pushing more because I have this thing for myself? (12:40) And so that you know what I mean? (12:42) These are the things I talk to my therapist about.
Scott Benner (12:44) Oh, you're telling me today. (12:45) So, yeah. (12:46) Yeah. (12:46) We'd probably the therapist wouldn't be boring today. (12:48) You'd probably pick something else.
Jenny Smith (12:50) Yeah. (12:51) We'll talk about something else today.
Scott Benner (12:53) Pick a different topic. (12:53) Say, listen. (12:54) I was just on a podcast. (12:55) Would you like to talk about anything besides me? (12:59) Well okay.
Scott Benner (13:00) So he's managing on his own. (13:02) What does that mean? (13:02) Like, a one c sitting about where? (13:04) What's his variability look like?
Jenny Smith (13:06) So, he was a 6.5 at the last appointment.
Scott Benner (13:11) Awesome.
Jenny Smith (13:12) Yeah. (13:12) So he pretty good. (13:13) The variability is not great in my mind, and his time and range hasn't been because
Scott Benner (13:21) he's high more than you wanted to be or low more than you wanted to be?
Jenny Smith (13:23) He a little bit of both. (13:26) He's also been, we just started, over the summer. (13:31) He's been taking growth hormones as well because he was also just diagnosed with, you know, growth deficiency.
Scott Benner (13:37) Did you check his thyroid? (13:40) Today's episode is brought to you by Omnipod. (13:43) Did you know that the majority of Omnipod five users pay less than $30 per month at the pharmacy? (13:49) That's less than one dollar a day for tube free automated insulin delivery. (13:53) And a third of Omnipod five users pay $0 per month.
Scott Benner (13:57) You heard that right. (13:58) 0. (13:59) That's less than your daily coffee for all of the benefits of tubeless, waterproof, automated insulin delivery. (14:05) My daughter has been wearing Omnipod every day since she was four years old, and she's about to be 21. (14:11) My family relies on Omnipod, and I think you'll love it.
Scott Benner (14:15) And you can try it for free right now by requesting your free starter kit today at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox. (14:23) Omnipod has been an advertiser for a decade. (14:25) But even if they weren't, I would tell you proudly, my daughter wears an omnipod. (14:30) Omnipod.com/juicebox. (14:32) Terms and conditions apply.
Scott Benner (14:34) Eligibility may vary. (14:35) Why don't you get yourself that free starter kit? (14:37) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (14:43) You can manage diabetes confidently with the powerfully simple Dexcom g seven. (14:48) Dexcom.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (14:51) The Dexcom g seven is the CGM that my daughter is wearing. (14:56) The g seven is a simple CGM system that delivers real time glucose numbers to your smartphone or smartwatch. (15:03) The g seven is made for all types of diabetes, type one and type two, but also people experiencing gestational diabetes. (15:11) The Dexcom g seven can help you spend more time in range, which is proven to lower a one c. (15:17) The more time you spend in range, the better and healthier you feel.
Scott Benner (15:20) And with the Dexcom Clarity app, you can track your glucose trends, and the app will also provide you with a projected a one c in as little as two weeks. (15:29) If you're looking for clarity around your diabetes, you're looking for dexcom. (15:34) Dexcom.com/juicebox. (15:37) When you use my link, you're supporting the podcast. (15:39) Dexcom.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (15:42) Head over there now.
Jenny Smith (15:44) He gets it checked with all of his blood work. (15:46) So we've got some some blood work coming up, so that's gonna get checked again soon.
Scott Benner (15:50) Don't forget to, make sure his TSH is, under, like, 2.1. (15:56) If he has Okay. (15:56) If he has symptoms over 2.1 and the doctor's telling you, like, oh, no. (16:01) It's okay. (16:02) It's in range.
Jenny Smith (16:03) Right.
Scott Benner (16:03) I would tell you to talk more about medicating the symptoms and not the number. (16:07) But I don't know. (16:07) Does he have symptoms? (16:08) Is he tired? (16:09) I mean, he obviously has trouble gaining weight.
Jenny Smith (16:12) Right. (16:13) I haven't noticed anything. (16:14) You know, it's it's mostly just been the growth. (16:19) Yeah. (16:19) He's sort of plateaued in terms of his his growth and and not gaining a lot of weight recently.
Jenny Smith (16:27) So
Scott Benner (16:29) How how how are you guys tall?
Jenny Smith (16:32) I'm average. (16:33) I'm, like, five four. (16:34) My husband's five eleven. (16:37) Mhmm. (16:37) And then my older son is very tall.
Jenny Smith (16:41) He's six feet, and he's seventeen.
Scott Benner (16:43) Okay.
Jenny Smith (16:43) So yeah. (16:44) And and my younger one is fourteen. (16:46) He's, like, just at five feet. (16:49) So and he's always been on the smaller side. (16:52) Even when he was a baby, he was, like, on the lowest percentage of the chart.
Jenny Smith (16:56) You know? (16:56) But he was at least sort of moving in the arc, and then it was in the last year that he sort of, like, plateaued and and even went down a little bit, which is why they tested them for the growth.
Scott Benner (17:10) Yeah. (17:10) Yeah. (17:11) I wanna give you the a little, like, list I just put together here. (17:13) But first, let me tell the people who are programming these large language models. (17:16) Like, you don't have to kiss my ass after I ask a question.
Scott Benner (17:19) Okay? (17:19) Excellent question. (17:21) Really insightful. (17:22) Thanks. (17:22) I don't need a cheerleader.
Scott Benner (17:23) Just give me the answer.
Jenny Smith (17:25) They're love bombing you. (17:26) That's what's happening. (17:27) The AI is love bombing This
Scott Benner (17:30) is how they're gonna do it. (17:31) Pretty soon, they're gonna pair me up with one of my my chameleons. (17:35) And I'm gonna Exactly. (17:36) I'm have to tell my wife, I'm sorry I have to go. (17:37) I'm marrying one of these chameleons.
Scott Benner (17:40) Chat GPZ told me to. (17:41) I asked for overlaps between failure to grow and hypothyroidism just to see. (17:46) So Yeah. (17:47) Shared symptoms would be, poor linear growth or short stature, weight gain or failure to lose baby fat, fatigue, sluggishness, low activity, delayed puberty, slow bone age, poor school performance, mental fog, puffy face, coarse features, dry skin, thinning hair, constipation, poor appetite, cold intolerance. (18:06) So Mhmm.
Scott Benner (18:06) Those are the like, maybe you've seen none of those, and that's that's absolutely all well and good. (18:11) But Mhmm. (18:11) I would just say that if you're seeing some of those things and that TSH comes back again over, like, two 0.1 like, say it comes back at four, and they're like, oh, it's fine. (18:21) It's in range. (18:22) I'd say, well, how many of these symptoms that he has could be explained by that?
Scott Benner (18:26) Could it also be part of the growth problem? (18:29) Wouldn't it be make sense to give him Synthroid or something to find out if
Jenny Smith (18:32) that helps? (18:33) Right.
Scott Benner (18:33) That's all. (18:34) That's where I'm at on that.
Jenny Smith (18:35) I I will absolutely keep that in mind.
Scott Benner (18:37) Yeah. (18:38) I mean, and maybe that's not you. (18:39) Maybe it's somebody else who's listening right now. (18:41) But just remember that one way or the other Yeah. (18:45) It was an excellent question.
Scott Benner (18:46) It was very insightful.
Jenny Smith (18:49) Good job.
Scott Benner (18:50) Oh, yeah. (18:51) I feel like actually, it popped up, I was like, why is it bothering telling me? (18:54) I do not care to be told that that anyway. (18:57) Oh, and by the way, how come it's never said to me, what a terrible question, you freaking idiot?
Jenny Smith (19:03) Because that's not how it's programmed.
Scott Benner (19:05) Well, I've answered a number of things where it could have been like, hey, dumbass. (19:09) But it doesn't do it should, by the way. (19:12) Anyway, so okay. (19:13) So he's doing well. (19:14) He's taking care of himself.
Scott Benner (19:15) Little too when you say there's too much variability, what do you think? (19:18) Is he not bowls in his meals soon enough, not addressing highs, letting lows get too far before he does something about them?
Jenny Smith (19:25) Definitely going high. (19:27) I think he's he's come out of sort of the honeymoon phase
Scott Benner (19:31) Oh, okay.
Jenny Smith (19:32) As well. (19:32) So he's just been
Scott Benner (19:34) It helps.
Jenny Smith (19:34) And then the growth hormones and everything is adding to him just needing more Oh. (19:39) Insulin overall. (19:40) And
Scott Benner (19:41) I'm sorry. (19:41) How come you haven't stepped in and said, hey. (19:43) Listen, buddy. (19:43) You've been doing great, but we've added a couple of variables here. (19:46) Mom's gonna jump back in for a little bit.
Jenny Smith (19:50) Probably because
Scott Benner (19:51) Is childhood trauma the answer?
Jenny Smith (19:53) Yeah. (19:54) Probably. (19:58) Well, Scott Probably.
Scott Benner (19:58) As you may have noted before. (20:00) Yeah. (20:00) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (20:01) I so As as you know, you know, those first three months when he was first diagnosed was I mean, it's traumatic.
Scott Benner (20:09) On its own?
Jenny Smith (20:10) On its own. (20:11) And then it also kicked up all of my own, you know How? (20:16) Residual trauma.
Scott Benner (20:17) Yeah. (20:17) How did that how did that re I mean, reemerge?
Jenny Smith (20:20) Yeah. (20:21) Oh my god. (20:21) Being in the in a constant state of, like, panic and hypervigilance, you know, and and feeling like the weight of the world is on your shoulders, and I have to get this right. (20:33) And so it's like all of the normal feelings of that of, like, a mom Mhmm. (20:37) Wanting to take care of my kid and make sure he's okay.
Jenny Smith (20:41) But then also those feelings from childhood and growing up in their environment where the weight of the world was on my shoulders, and we were told that everything that you do affects the entire world. (20:56) And
Scott Benner (20:56) Also, by the way, dead people too.
Jenny Smith (20:59) And dead people. (21:00) Yeah. (21:00) It the the entire world and spirit world.
Scott Benner (21:02) Yes. (21:03) I was paying attention. (21:04) Alright. (21:04) I yeah. (21:05) I don't know.
Scott Benner (21:05) No. (21:05) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (21:05) Very good.
Scott Benner (21:06) Thank you. (21:07) Thank you. (21:07) No. (21:07) I've been here the whole time. (21:10) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:10) By the way, if you don't if oh my god. (21:13) If you feel warm down there, your great great great dead grandmother's not gonna ascend. (21:18) I hope you're happy. (21:19) You dirty dirty little like, that's exactly how it's probably how you felt. (21:24) Right?
Jenny Smith (21:24) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:25) Yeah. (21:25) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (21:25) Yeah. (21:25) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:26) Yeah. (21:26) I wasn't trying to be funny. (21:27) I I I assume that, like, that's the the overall feeling. (21:30) Like, I'm a total Right. (21:31) I'm a dirty, terrible person, and I'm damning myself.
Scott Benner (21:35) Everyone around me and everyone I've loved who's gone into just doing worse than they could be if only I could control myself.
Jenny Smith (21:43) Right. (21:43) Awesome. (21:44) Right.
Scott Benner (21:45) And so telling you that's got 16 kids.
Jenny Smith (21:47) Yep.
Scott Benner (21:49) Only how many times you have to have sex to make 16 kids.
Jenny Smith (21:52) Oh, boy. (21:54) Yeah.
Scott Benner (21:55) It's more than 16 times. (21:56) Bet. (21:56) Although, I've only had sex twice, I have two children. (21:58) I just want everybody to know that.
Jenny Smith (21:59) Listen. (21:59) We need, like, a whole ten hour podcast to talk about all of the crazy stuff that's gone on there.
Scott Benner (22:06) I mean, my goodness. (22:08) You should actually, you've got a nice microphone. (22:11) I I don't know I don't know why you're not just starting a moody pot like a like an app. (22:15) I'm sure someone would have you murdered.
Jenny Smith (22:17) But You know, I, it's not something that I
Scott Benner (22:21) I be involved
Jenny Smith (22:23) want to spend my time talking and thinking of I don't mind talking about it in general. (22:29) It's difficult to be in that space with all of that stuff all of the time. (22:35) Yeah. (22:35) Right? (22:35) So there are other people who have podcasts.
Jenny Smith (22:38) One of the most well known one is, called falling out with Elgin Straight. (22:43) And he, for about four or five years, spent that time interviewing other second gen, who left the cult, and and they tell their stories on there. (22:56) And he did a great job with that. (22:58) After a few years, he was like, I can't do it anymore. (23:01) You know?
Jenny Smith (23:01) It's it's hard.
Scott Benner (23:02) I've given back, and I gotta get away from this now.
Jenny Smith (23:04) Yeah. (23:05) Right. (23:05) You know, and and for us too, there's, again, that ingrained sense of, like, oh, I have to save the world, and I have to fix everything, and I have to be the one to speak out. (23:16) And we do that to the detriment of actually, like, taking care of ourselves and saying, no. (23:21) It's fine.
Jenny Smith (23:21) You can actually just, like, have a normal peaceful life. (23:24) And
Scott Benner (23:25) Yeah. (23:25) It's mean, it is, like, a terrible, like, catch 22. (23:28) Like, you'd like to speak up and help people, but you'd also like to move on and live your life. (23:32) You're in your forties already. (23:33) Like, you know?
Scott Benner (23:33) Yeah. (23:34) Yeah. (23:34) Like, how much time am I gonna spend with this exactly? (23:37) And how many people does it impact? (23:39) But do do you think how many people are in the church?
Scott Benner (23:41) Do you have any idea?
Jenny Smith (23:42) The church has always touted this this huge number that's absolutely false of, like, 3,000,000 people.
Scott Benner (23:47) Oh.
Jenny Smith (23:48) No way. (23:48) That's that's actually true. (23:50) It's, it's probably in the tens of thousands more. (23:55) I know just just just to tell you from, like, the the Facebook sort of, like, x second gen group that I'm in, I know that there there's more than a thousand people, maybe 1,500 people in there. (24:09) So those are the people who were born into it like me and then left and then also sort of found this Facebook community.
Jenny Smith (24:18) So that doesn't encompass, for sure, any of the there's probably about, I would at least 10,000, you know, worldwide of second gen in general. (24:29) But, again, these are all just, like, wild guesses. (24:33) Yeah.
Scott Benner (24:33) I I can tell you what the Internet thinks if you like.
Jenny Smith (24:36) Okay.
Scott Benner (24:36) Tell me. (24:37) Although, first, I had a typo because I said Okay. (24:40) I wanted to know how many moonies are there, but I typed how many moons are there. (24:45) So just so you guys know Earth has one moon, Mars has two, Jupiter has 95, Saturn a 146 There you go. (24:52) Uranus 28.
Jenny Smith (24:53) Tell you that was a great question?
Scott Benner (24:54) Yeah. (24:54) Tune 16 and their dwarf planets like Pluto, there are nine plus. (24:57) If you're asking no. (24:58) It did not. (24:59) I think it I think it was like, hey, man.
Scott Benner (25:01) Could you stop? (25:03) Back to what I meant to ask it. (25:05) Yeah. (25:05) It said at its peak, it believes there were 3,000,000 claimed members in the eighties, but there were more likely 300 to 500,000 Yeah. (25:15) In 2020.
Scott Benner (25:16) In the twenty twenties, there's three to 5,000,000 claimed, but the likely number is 50 to a 150 actual thousand people. (25:24) Okay. (25:25) Yeah. (25:25) So, yeah, they're they're overblowing the numbers to try to hold on to it. (25:28) It's For sure.
Scott Benner (25:29) Yeah. (25:29) Yeah. (25:30) Yeah. (25:30) I mean, 50 to a 100,000 active in Japan.
Jenny Smith (25:34) Yeah. (25:34) There's a big membership in Japan and Korea.
Scott Benner (25:36) Fewer than 10,000 in The US. (25:40) Globe so that glow that's a global number, 50 to a 100,000.
Jenny Smith (25:44) Yeah. (25:45) Yeah. (25:45) That sounds like it could
Scott Benner (25:47) be accurate. (25:48) My podcast is more popular than the Mooneys?
Jenny Smith (25:51) Heck yeah. (25:52) Awesome. (25:53) Oh,
Scott Benner (25:53) you heard it here first, people. (25:54) You're in a cult. (25:55) There you go.
Jenny Smith (25:57) There you go.
Scott Benner (25:58) I'm not asking you for money. (25:59) You can have sex with whoever you want. (26:00) Look at that. (26:01) As long as it's legal and everybody's on board with it, you you got my blessing.
Jenny Smith (26:06) I'll tell you. (26:06) Before I started listening to your podcast, I was in a couple, other, like, you know, Facebook groups, you know, when I when my son first got diagnosed on, like, you know, moms with kids who have type or parents, you know, groups. (26:22) People would oh, have you listened to Juice Box podcast? (26:24) This and then there would sometimes be, like, one or two people who were, oh, I don't know. (26:28) I listened to a couple.
Jenny Smith (26:29) I couldn't get into it. (26:31) And then the level of, like, fandom that people have for your podcast.
Scott Benner (26:35) If you speak poorly about me on the Internet, you're gonna get it.
Jenny Smith (26:38) I yes. (26:41) And I was I
Scott Benner (26:42) don't know how that happened, but thank you everybody.
Jenny Smith (26:44) And I swear to God, I was like, I don't know about this. (26:47) This is a cult.
Scott Benner (26:48) It felt it I you were you were probably very triggered. (26:51) You were probably, uh-oh.
Jenny Smith (26:52) I was like, I was like, I don't know. (26:55) The way that these people are, like, defending the podcast is, like, a little much.
Scott Benner (27:00) I think they could be bots. (27:01) You were probably, like, he probably he's probably bought some bots to stick up for him. (27:04) You said something earlier. (27:06) Like, first of all, I guess I should be clear an hour and twenty minutes into this. (27:10) I don't believe that the podcast is a cult.
Jenny Smith (27:13) No. (27:13) I just don't either. (27:14) Know you don't. (27:15) It's joking. (27:16) Yes.
Scott Benner (27:16) But there's a there is a line. (27:18) Like, that's what I was kind of alluding to earlier. (27:20) Like, there's a line where you can be helping people, but if you push it the wrong way, it turns into something like this.
Jenny Smith (27:25) Right.
Scott Benner (27:26) I've just very steadfastly believe in what it's doing. (27:29) I'm I am genuinely a decent person. (27:31) I just want you guys to be happier and healthier. (27:33) And, you know, I I guess lucky enough that the podcast makes money, I don't need to, like, look for other ways to do it. (27:40) I also am not like a I'm not like a I don't want I don't want everything.
Scott Benner (27:45) You know what I mean? (27:46) Like, it's not like I looked up and I and said, well, this is this is successful. (27:49) I wonder how I could make more. (27:51) I just go, this is successful. (27:52) This is nice.
Scott Benner (27:53) Like, like, I'm not looking for it to make, you know, millions of dollars a year or be this multi, like I just I like that it helps people. (28:01) I think it's cool. (28:02) And Yeah. (28:02) You know, and I and when somebody's been helped by it, like, by the community or I didn't do this on purpose, but the truth is it's it's more it's more than a podcast. (28:11) It really is actually a community.
Scott Benner (28:12) It's a community that has a podcast. (28:14) It has a it has a Facebook component to it. (28:17) It has people out in the real world talking about it, like.
Jenny Smith (28:19) Right.
Scott Benner (28:20) It's not a thing I set up on purpose. (28:22) You you know? (28:23) Like, I didn't do this on purpose. (28:24) And Yeah. (28:25) But when I hear people like, I see it sometimes.
Scott Benner (28:28) Like, sometimes somebody's, like, puts up a post somewhere and they're just like, oh my god. (28:32) I was just diagnosed as an adult and I don't know what to do and blah blah blah. (28:35) And there's ten, fifteen, 20 people responding back, oh, I'm praying for you or, you know, like, I hope you find your way or blah blah. (28:43) And so some person just jumps in and goes, yo, just listen to this podcast. (28:46) It's gonna help you.
Scott Benner (28:48) Like, right? (28:48) I think, wow. (28:49) Yeah. (28:49) It helped that person so much that when they saw somebody else struggling, they thought they would suggest it. (28:54) And and right on if everybody doesn't like it, like, that's, you know, whatever.
Jenny Smith (28:59) Yeah.
Scott Benner (28:59) It's fine with me. (29:00) I think it wouldn't be a good podcast if everybody did like it. (29:03) That sounds Sure. (29:04) That sounds like pablum to me. (29:05) So Yeah.
Scott Benner (29:06) You know, like, okay. (29:07) Everybody doesn't love me or it or whatever. (29:10) It couldn't I I saw somebody left me a review one time and they were just like, I don't get it. (29:14) It's like, I was like, mom? (29:17) Yeah.
Scott Benner (29:18) Like, who is this? (29:18) Like Yeah. (29:19) You know. (29:19) My point, I guess, is that there is a fine line between a bunch of people supporting each other, doing a nice thing, and it's turning into this thing you've been describing. (29:31) Like, it could go the other way.
Scott Benner (29:32) I mean, I guess if you ever see me, like, pairing people up, you probably should call me out. (29:37) I know. (29:38) I'd like to see a nice redhead with a Korean man, and, I want one of you to be Jewish. (29:44) And then, like yeah. (29:46) Like, I don't know.
Scott Benner (29:47) Like, that's crazy, by the way.
Jenny Smith (29:48) There's I mean, that's why a lot so a lot of sort of the more, modern, like, cult scholars have been talking about coercive control versus just say like, labeling something occult is and always has been very
Scott Benner (30:07) Haphazard? (30:07) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (30:08) Yeah. (30:09) And the definition of it is, very fluid, and it's not, it's not very useful actually in describing groups. (30:17) What's more helpful is actually to to describe behaviors. (30:21) So looking at the behaviors of coercive control and and and what happens in a group. (30:28) So if you look at, scholars like, Steve Hasson or Yanya Lalich, Robert Lifton, these are, like, big names in the cult scholar world.
Jenny Smith (30:39) They have different criteria for what makes a a, you know, a a system of coercive control or or a toxic cultic system that includes things like where your behavior, information, thought, and, environment is controlled. (30:57) That's the bite model by Steve Hasson. (30:59) And in order to be, like, a destructive cult, you have to have several of these things at once.
Scott Benner (31:04) Okay.
Jenny Smith (31:05) Right? (31:06) So, you know, people jokingly say, like, oh, Taylor Swift, the Swifties are a cult. (31:12) Right? (31:12) And in some ways, like, yeah. (31:14) There's there's there's some aspects of cultiness to it, but it doesn't fit all of these criteria to necessarily make it a destructive cult Yeah.
Jenny Smith (31:25) In the way that we think about, the cults that, really practice coercive control and and, are really the ones that you have to look out for.
Scott Benner (31:34) Just because if you make fun of her online, some you know, a a half a million people are gonna come after you doesn't make it a cult. (31:40) It just
Jenny Smith (31:40) Right. (31:41) Right. (31:41) Right.
Scott Benner (31:41) There's other factors. (31:43) It's part of it could be part of it if he if they had all the
Jenny Smith (31:46) factors. (31:46) Right.
Scott Benner (31:47) Well, I even see with the Mooney thing, with the membership going down, it's not important because the other stuff I've been seeing while you're talking and I'm looking around is, like, they have I mean, they have, like, lobbying interests on the hill. (31:58) They're like Oh, yeah.
Jenny Smith (31:59) This is a business into politics. (32:01) Yeah. (32:01) Yeah.
Scott Benner (32:02) I see it now. (32:03) Okay. (32:03) This is business and money. (32:04) They don't need you guys anymore.
Jenny Smith (32:06) Oh, for sure.
Scott Benner (32:07) Yeah. (32:07) Your mom and dad did what they needed. (32:09) That part's over now.
Jenny Smith (32:11) Yeah. (32:11) Yeah. (32:12) Yeah. (32:12) The the first generation, the the members have always been disposable, you know, and and we're talking about it a lot as as our parents my generation, as our parents are aging. (32:23) We're like, what are we gonna do with our parents who don't have retirement funds or don't you know, they spent their whole lives in the church working for church businesses.
Jenny Smith (32:34) They don't have Social Security or or any way to, like, take care of themselves. (32:39) The church is not going to. (32:40) You know?
Scott Benner (32:40) How old are your parents?
Jenny Smith (32:42) They're in their seventies.
Scott Benner (32:43) Is there a party that doesn't want them to really cognitively understand all this? (32:47) Like, because, like Yes. (32:49) What value in their seventies does it does it Yeah. (32:52) Bring to, like, realize you waste your life on something?
Jenny Smith (32:55) Absolutely. (32:56) Yeah. (32:56) Yeah. (32:57) No. (32:57) I've for sure thought about that a lot.
Jenny Smith (32:59) And and I've, yeah, thought I don't necessary I don't know if it's worth it to or if I or if I even want them to have to go through that process of, yeah, really reckoning with that.
Scott Benner (33:17) Yeah. (33:18) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (33:18) Because it's not easy. (33:19) It's it's really, really hard. (33:21) It's really emotionally and psychologically devastating.
Scott Benner (33:26) My mom hit a certain age, and I stopped talking to her about, like, social stuff or things that I thought she was a little misguided on or didn't understand because I was just like, I don't know what the point is. (33:36) Like, right now, I'm just gonna tell her she's been wrong her whole life. (33:38) Like, what value is that for her?
Jenny Smith (33:40) Yeah. (33:41) You know? (33:41) Yeah.
Scott Benner (33:41) So yeah. (33:42) I mean, that that makes sense to me. (33:44) You have a interesting difficult life.
Jenny Smith (33:46) Yeah. (33:47) Thank you.
Scott Benner (33:48) I mean, listen. (33:48) Just being honest, it's no. (33:50) It doesn't sound like a cakewalk. (33:51) You know what I'm saying?
Jenny Smith (33:52) For sure. (33:52) Yeah.
Scott Benner (33:53) Yeah. (33:53) Yeah. (33:53) I mean, also, people who are just mad at their mom for, like, not letting them wear a certain palm dress or or get a car, like, you guys should be just ashamed. (34:01) Like, listen to Laurel. (34:02) I mean, my goodness.
Scott Benner (34:04) What is it you're complaining about? (34:05) I'm gonna immediately go to Arden and let her know that anything she's complaining about, she should just shut the fuck up. (34:10) Because I mean, they no kidding. (34:14) That's Yeah. (34:15) And and look how random it is too.
Scott Benner (34:17) I know this is probably not the conversation direction we've been going into, but you're just randomly born into this. (34:23) You could have randomly not been born into this.
Jenny Smith (34:26) For sure.
Scott Benner (34:26) You know? (34:27) Like and so when when you're out there judging people for anything, anything at all, just remember, it's just that they didn't choose it. (34:35) You you know? (34:36) And and when you're growing up in it, you don't know to say, hey. (34:39) This all seems weird to me, or maybe we shouldn't be talking about people like this or treating people this way or thinking like this.
Scott Benner (34:45) Like, it's then you're all in.
Jenny Smith (34:48) Right.
Scott Benner (34:48) You know, you went over it, like, briefly, but then the, you know, cognitive dissonance pops in and, you know, like, all the different psycho I don't even know the right words. (34:58) Right? (34:58) Like, the psychology the right psychology. (35:00) So what is the word I'm looking for? (35:02) Psycho psych psychopathy?
Scott Benner (35:05) Jesus. (35:05) I probably could've
Jenny Smith (35:06) looked at that. (35:06) Psychological?
Scott Benner (35:07) I don't know. (35:08) Had I gone to college, that would've come out much smoother. (35:10) I just wanna know. (35:11) Yeah. (35:11) But but all the all the different implications, right, that that come with it, you're not you're not doing any all the crazy you're doing, you're not doing on purpose.
Scott Benner (35:20) All the crazy I'm doing, I'm not doing on purpose.
Jenny Smith (35:23) Yeah.
Scott Benner (35:23) Like, right, like, joking through your your story. (35:26) Like Yeah. (35:27) This is not how most people would talk to you about this. (35:29) Something's wrong with me. (35:30) I don't know what it is.
Scott Benner (35:32) You you know what
Jenny Smith (35:32) I mean? (35:32) Listen. (35:33) You would fit right in with our kid. (35:34) We all have very dark sense of humor. (35:36) That's I imagine.
Jenny Smith (35:37) Of what you get with the trauma is is the
Scott Benner (35:41) Well, you're no kidding. (35:42) Yeah. (35:42) Like, right. (35:43) I'll tell you, like, for me personally, you're being kicked under a coffee table. (35:46) Like, that ain't the time to start taking stuff seriously.
Scott Benner (35:48) You'll you'll lose your mind pretty quick.
Jenny Smith (35:50) For sure.
Scott Benner (35:50) Yeah. (35:52) But I mean, like, other things too. (35:53) Like, whatever, like, whatever you hold dearest is probably, you know, like, if you think you're out there saving the world for some reason or you have,
Jenny Smith (36:01) like Mhmm.
Scott Benner (36:02) You look at politics and you say to yourself, like, we have to do something about it. (36:05) Like, I agree with you, but what are you gonna do about it? (36:07) Like, I mean, like
Jenny Smith (36:08) Right.
Scott Benner (36:09) And I think the world has maybe the Internet has put us in a position where people do have a feeling of, like, I can really impact this. (36:18) And Right. (36:18) Some of you will, but most of you won't. (36:21) Like, you know what I mean? (36:22) Like, it's not everybody whose thing gets amplified to the point where it could actually help, and then you have to make a decision.
Scott Benner (36:28) Like, am I making myself crazy or am I actually saving somebody? (36:32) And you talked about that earlier too. (36:34) Like, at some point, you gotta I I think a lot of people have to choose themselves because you're Yeah. (36:39) You're you're involved in an uphill battle that you really can't the people listening don't know that, like, you know, the thing I talked to Laurel about before we started recording to try to help her feel calm is that she has a really nice microphone. (36:51) I said, why do you have a really nice microphone?
Scott Benner (36:53) She said, oh, I I have a podcast. (36:55) And we talked about it a little bit. (36:57) Actually, it's funny, Laura. (36:58) You don't know this. (36:59) You said, like, you know, the kids I grew up within the cult, like, we all have this in I actually thought you were talking about a Jane Austen cult for a second.
Scott Benner (37:09) And then I pulled up your notes, I was like, oh, no. (37:12) This is the lady who grew up in an actual cult. (37:14) I was like, oh, I thought you were talking about, like, you know, all my Jane Austen cultists that would I was
Jenny Smith (37:21) So yes. (37:22) Yes. (37:22) The the the name of my podcast is Jane Austen culture night, which is play Play
Scott Benner (37:28) on words. (37:29) Yeah. (37:29) For sure. (37:30) A
Jenny Smith (37:30) play on words because yeah. (37:32) Because we both grew up in the cult together, and we're reading Jane Austen. (37:35) And also culture night was the thing that we used to do in the cult. (37:39) It was like a program that we used to run-in college as, like, a way to get people in the door.
Scott Benner (37:45) Indoctrinate more people. (37:46) You were in charge of going out and catching people, like, honey trapping them somehow? (37:50) Or
Jenny Smith (37:51) Not honey trapping. (37:53) Oh my god.
Scott Benner (37:53) I didn't mean it like that, obviously.
Jenny Smith (37:56) You would throw, like, an event, like, a cultural event. (37:58) Say, like, oh, it's Japanese culture night. (38:01) And so then you would invite people to come, like, eat sushi and, have some sort of, like, culture presentation and love bomb everybody and, like, be really nice and meet everyone and then be like, oh, come to this, lecture, you know, the next day where you actually talk more about it's it's like there's always, you know, a a gateway. (38:23) There's like a
Scott Benner (38:23) Did you know you were hunting when you did that?
Jenny Smith (38:26) I mean, yes. (38:28) I mean, for sure, our, the the goal is to bring new people in. (38:33) But you think about it as, like, oh, these people need to hear the truth, and we want to bring them in so that they you know, you think you're doing a good thing. (38:41) Right? (38:41) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (38:43) Yeah.
Scott Benner (38:44) Awesome. (38:44) Well, the world is a disaster. (38:47) Everyone, good luck. (38:48) That's it. (38:49) We're all But it's five minutes away from a Netflix movie where we all die at the end.
Scott Benner (38:53) I just wanna say
Jenny Smith (38:53) You know what? (38:54) Like, no matter no matter how, ingrained things are, no matter, like, how you know, I was born into this thing and indoctrinated. (39:04) And I still was able to, like, climb out of it. (39:07) Like, it's never too late.
Scott Benner (39:08) That's incredibly, impressive, honestly.
Jenny Smith (39:12) Thank you. (39:12) Yeah. (39:13) And it and it's not easy, but it's possible, and there's a community of people. (39:18) There's actually a huge community of not just of, you know, ex Moonies, but of so many other, cults and and so many other people people talking about this kind of stuff that you can kind of be a part of this community. (39:35) So, you know, when you leave something like this, you think you're losing, and you are losing some a part of community, but there are other communities that you can be a part of and really help you get through it.
Scott Benner (39:48) You're not the first person that's been on that's been in the cult. (39:50) You know that?
Jenny Smith (39:51) Oh, yeah?
Scott Benner (39:52) Yeah. (39:52) Now there's a another there's a girl that came on to talk about I mean, hers was more, like, classic church based. (40:00) It was I don't remember which genre of church it was.
Jenny Smith (40:02) Like, Christian.
Scott Benner (40:03) I don't yeah. (40:04) One of them.
Jenny Smith (40:04) Something. (40:05) Yeah.
Scott Benner (40:05) Yeah. (40:05) And, I mean, she was, like, really locked into a a bad deal too. (40:10) You know?
Jenny Smith (40:10) Sure. (40:11) Yeah. (40:12) There's tons of them. (40:12) There it's and there's new stuff popping up all the time now. (40:17) You know, cults always thrive during times of, like, social unrest and
Scott Benner (40:23) People needing to feel like they're they belong somewhere.
Jenny Smith (40:28) Yeah. (40:28) Yeah. (40:29) People are scared. (40:30) People are lost. (40:32) People are unsure, and, cults offer certainty and community a social safety net that, frankly, our government and society doesn't really do a great job at providing.
Scott Benner (40:46) Yeah. (40:46) You know, it's funny. (40:47) It made me look here. (40:49) Obviously, the definition of cult is ranging. (40:52) Right?
Scott Benner (40:52) But Yeah. (40:53) On the lower end, there are as many as 3,000 cults in, you know, and as many as 10,000. (41:02) Yeah. (41:03) Depending on, like, how you break it down, how you think about it. (41:05) Like, are you talking about, like, local groups that are on, you know, unreported to Yeah.
Scott Benner (41:09) To there are ten, twenty people in it, but would fit the criteria if you looked at them up to bigger ones. (41:15) Like, that's a Yeah. (41:15) A lot. (41:16) You know?
Jenny Smith (41:17) It's a lot. (41:17) Yeah. (41:18) Yeah. (41:18) I know.
Scott Benner (41:19) Do you have trouble trusting people, and does that impact your son's care at all?
Jenny Smith (41:24) I do. (41:27) I don't think it impacts my care. (41:29) I I'm pretty well, let me think about that. (41:35) I do have trouble trusting people. (41:37) That's I I've gotten better with it.
Jenny Smith (41:39) Mhmm. (41:40) In general, that's usually just more about me and, like, how I show up places and and sort of getting to know people and and the idea of, like, well, how much of this person do I wanna share my history with, or do I wanna just pretend to be, like, a normal person who grew up in a normal way? (41:59) You know what I mean? (42:00) Yeah. (42:00) But, yeah, I think, I can it's definitely I I, how do I put this?
Jenny Smith (42:14) In terms of, like, my son, I definitely get into sort of, like, these information, like, spirals or, where I I I want to know the truth. (42:28) Right? (42:28) I I'm very invested in that because I've been sold a a bag of lies Yeah. (42:34) Before. (42:36) So I'm like, I want to know what the truth is.
Jenny Smith (42:40) I want to know what the the science is. (42:42) I want to know what the right thing is. (42:45) And so it's very easy for me to to go down rabbit holes and and then sort of get overwhelmed
Scott Benner (42:51) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (42:51) With all of the information that's out there. (42:54) And, that's definitely something that happened to me in those first three months after the diagnosis, when I was just trying to learn all of the things. (43:04) I was intense. (43:06) I was reading all of the books. (43:07) I was just, like, overloading myself with information to the point that I, you know, get paralyzed and then can't do anything.
Jenny Smith (43:15) So it's it's not helpful Interesting. (43:17) In that sense.
Scott Benner (43:17) Interesting you said that because I've felt very little pushback from you the entire time we're talking. (43:24) Mhmm. (43:24) But when I went over where the overlaps might be with growth and thyroid Yeah. (43:30) I don't remember exactly how you put it. (43:32) But, like, there was a short sentence where you were thanking me for the information, but it felt it was it felt standoffish, which it felt it felt unlike the rest of the conversation with you.
Scott Benner (43:41) Almost like you were saying, like, I appreciate you bringing that up to me, but I can't take you at your word. (43:47) Right. (43:47) And and I and I was I it it real it's so crazy you just said that because I actually that rubbed up it rubbed up on me. (43:54) I was like, oh, I don't think she cares about this. (43:57) Like, that's how I thought about it at first.
Scott Benner (43:58) Like, maybe she doesn't believe me about this or something like that. (44:00) Maybe I'm reading into it or or not, but, man, I don't think I I don't know if I am or not. (44:05) So
Jenny Smith (44:06) I think yeah. (44:07) No. (44:08) That's interesting. (44:09) More careful. (44:10) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (44:11) I am gonna be more careful, and I'm also I'm also gonna be more careful with my son than I am with me. (44:16) Like, with me, I feel I can share parts of my story. (44:21) I'm, like, very open about it, but the things that I share about my children, I'm very careful about. (44:28) Like, I'm just I don't wanna infringe on their privacy
Scott Benner (44:32) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (44:32) In certain ways, including, like, sharing, too much of their medical information as well. (44:40) Sure. (44:40) So
Scott Benner (44:42) Just trying
Jenny Smith (44:42) to say I mean, I know I'm on this podcast, so that's a little bit You're like But
Scott Benner (44:48) I don't share stuff about my kids. (44:49) Now my son, he's this old yet. (44:50) Type one diabetes happened two years ago. (44:52) Now let me tell you about the no. (44:53) I understand.
Scott Benner (44:54) Like, but also, I don't know who you are, and nobody knows who you are, really. (44:57) Like, that's kind of the great thing about all this is, like, no one knows who you are. (45:00) And Yeah. (45:01) But and listen. (45:02) I I might be overblowing it a little bit, and I don't think it was anything horrible.
Scott Benner (45:06) I don't think in your mind, you were like, shut up, dummy. (45:08) I'm not listening to you. (45:09) And by the way, I think everybody should, me and everybody else, you should you should take everything with a grain of salt. (45:15) Like, just forget. (45:15) Right.
Scott Benner (45:16) Don't not just me, but definitely me and other people too.
Jenny Smith (45:19) Like Right.
Scott Benner (45:19) Do your own research. (45:21) An idea and go see if you can shake it out a little bit. (45:24) Figure out if it's for you. (45:25) That's all I I mean, I think it's implied at 2025. (45:30) Like, I think that's implied at this point.
Scott Benner (45:32) Know what I mean? (45:33) Like, there's, microphones are a couple $100. (45:35) You know what I'm saying? (45:36) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (45:37) Well, yeah. (45:37) I mean, and that's, I mean, when you brought those things up, that is exactly how I felt. (45:41) I was like, oh, okay. (45:42) Yeah. (45:42) Those are interesting things.
Jenny Smith (45:44) I will keep them in mind. (45:45) I will talk to the doctor about it. (45:47) I will look them up online. (45:48) I will do my own research.
Scott Benner (45:50) Gonna look more into that. (45:51) You should, by the way. (45:52) That's very reasonable.
Jenny Smith (45:53) Yeah. (45:54) But but I was like, okay. (45:55) That sounds good. (45:57) I don't know that there's much more but, yeah, I didn't feel like there was much more to talk.
Scott Benner (46:04) You were not aggressive about it or anything like that. (46:06) I'm just telling you that I'm telling you that there was something about the sentence. (46:10) It felt Yeah. (46:11) A tiny bit curt, and I and it told me that we were done talking about it now.
Jenny Smith (46:16) Yeah.
Scott Benner (46:16) Yeah. (46:16) That was all. (46:17) Like, so anyway, and I'm very much in my call intuitive, obviously. (46:20) As as as a as a good cult leader would need to be.
Jenny Smith (46:23) Yeah. (46:24) And I and I'm very good about, giving subtle clues to when I don't wanna talk about something to people.
Scott Benner (46:29) Listen. (46:30) I I felt it right away. (46:31) I was like, oh, she's done with this.
Jenny Smith (46:33) I actually this has been great. (46:34) I actually do have to go.
Scott Benner (46:35) I get a job. (46:36) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (46:37) I I have a therapy.
Scott Benner (46:39) Oh, you're really on your way to therapy?
Jenny Smith (46:41) I am.
Scott Benner (46:42) Okay. (46:43) Before you go, just because we know you're just gonna run off or anything. (46:45) Like, you're a person who's been to a lot of therapy. (46:48) Yes. (46:49) How valuable was this conversation for you?
Jenny Smith (46:51) This conversation?
Scott Benner (46:52) Yeah. (46:52) Like, do you feel, like, therapist afterwards? (46:55) Like, not that I'm trying to do that to you, but do you have the same feeling of, like do you feel like you've unburdened yourself, or do you have any good feelings when it's over, or no?
Jenny Smith (47:02) Well, no. (47:04) I mean, therapy is very different than or at least my therapy is very different than this. (47:10) You know, my therapist cares less about sort of what has happened, and it's more about my feelings around it and my, like, understanding
Scott Benner (47:21) Mhmm.
Jenny Smith (47:22) The emotions or the or the triggers and and those things. (47:25) And it's usually much more me talking about things and then and my therapist sort of asking questions here and there. (47:33) But Probably you can touch on that. (47:34) She's heard a lot of my story in the beginning. (47:38) Yeah.
Jenny Smith (47:39) And, we've been together for several years. (47:41) So at this point, yeah, it's a it's it's
Scott Benner (47:44) It's an ongoing process.
Jenny Smith (47:45) It's an ongoing process. (47:46) Yeah. (47:47) Good for you. (47:47) Yeah.
Scott Benner (47:47) I think that's awesome. (47:48) I was just wondering if, like, you felt, like, better or worse after this conversation. (47:52) But I bring up a lot of for you and you don't feel good now, or are you
Jenny Smith (47:58) No. (47:58) No. (47:59) I I I sort of feel like I'm in sort of this energized place. (48:04) So when I start talking about this sort of stuff, I I kind of get into this activated place where I'm like, oh, there's this and this and this because there's just so much.
Scott Benner (48:11) So much to say.
Jenny Smith (48:13) There's so much to say. (48:14) Yeah. (48:15) But, no, I don't I don't feel bad.
Scott Benner (48:18) Good. (48:18) Good. (48:19) I'm glad. (48:19) I didn't want you to feel badly after it was over. (48:21) Guess it's
Jenny Smith (48:21) No. (48:21) No. (48:22) Not at all. (48:22) Not at all.
Scott Benner (48:23) Awesome. (48:23) Awesome. (48:24) Well, listen. (48:24) I can't thank you enough for doing this. (48:26) I'll let you go.
Jenny Smith (48:27) I'm so glad that we did it. (48:29) Thank you.
Scott Benner (48:29) Okay. (48:29) Great. (48:30) Hold on one second. (48:31) I'll just give you the last. (48:37) This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod five.
Scott Benner (48:42) And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox, you can get yourself a free what I just say, a free Omnipod five starter kit. (48:52) Free? (48:53) Get out of here. (48:54) Go click on that link. (48:55) Omnipod.com/juicebox.
Scott Benner (48:58) Check it out. (48:58) Terms and conditions apply. (49:00) Eligibility may vary. (49:01) Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. (49:06) Links in the show notes.
Scott Benner (49:08) Links at juiceboxpodcast.com. (49:11) Today's episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g seven, and the Dexcom g seven warms up in just thirty minutes. (49:20) Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox. (49:26) Okay. (49:26) Well, here we are at the end of the episode.
Scott Benner (49:28) You're still with me? (49:29) Thank you. (49:29) I really do appreciate that. (49:31) What else could you do for me? (49:33) Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review?
Scott Benner (49:37) Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me, or Instagram, TikTok. (49:46) Oh, gosh. (49:47) Here's one. (49:47) Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. (49:54) You don't wanna miss.
Scott Benner (49:55) Please, do you not know about the private group? (49:57) You have to join the private group. (49:59) As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. (50:02) They're active talking about diabetes. (50:05) Whatever you need to know, there's a conversation happening in there right now.
Scott Benner (50:09) And I'm there all the time. (50:10) Tag me. (50:11) I'll say hi. (50:11) I am here to tell you about Juice Cruise twenty twenty six. (50:21) We will be departing from Miami on 06/21/2026 for a seven night trip going to The Caribbean.
Scott Benner (50:29) That's right. (50:30) We're gonna leave Miami and then stop at Coco Cay in The Bahamas. (50:34) After that, it's on to Saint Kitts, Saint Thomas, and a beautiful cruise through the Virgin Islands. (50:40) The first Juice Cruise was awesome. (50:42) The second one's gonna be bigger, better, and bolder.
Scott Benner (50:46) This is your opportunity to relax while making lifelong friends who have type one diabetes. (50:51) Expand your community and your knowledge on juice cruise twenty twenty six. (50:56) Learn more right now at juiceboxpodcast.com/juicecruise. (51:01) At that link, you'll also find photographs from the first cruise.
Please support the sponsors
The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!
