#1598 Future Murse

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Brandon, 20, has lived with T1D for 4 years and is currently studying to become a nurse.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox podcast.

Brandon 0:14
Hi. My name is Brandon. Let's see. I've had type one diabetes for four years now, and I am currently a nursing student at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. If

Scott Benner 0:25
this is your first time listening to the Juicebox podcast and you'd like to hear more, download Apple podcasts or Spotify, really, any audio app at all, look for the Juicebox podcast and follow or subscribe. We put out new content every day that you'll enjoy. Want to learn more about your diabetes management. Go to Juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and look for bold Beginnings The Diabetes Pro Tip series and much more. This podcast is full of collections and series of information that will help you to live better with insulin. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. The episode you're listening to is sponsored by us Med, US med.com/juicebox, or call 888-721-1514, you can get your diabetes testing supplies the same way we do from us med. A huge thanks to my longest sponsor, Omnipod. Check out the Omnipod five now with my link, omnipod.com/juicebox you may be eligible for a free starter kit, a free Omnipod five starter kit at my link. Go check it out. Omnipod.com/juicebox Terms and Conditions apply. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox today's episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 the one year where CGM that's one insertion a year. That's it. And here's a little bonus for you. How about there's no limit on how many friends and family you can share your data with, with the ever since now app, no limits ever

Brandon 2:18
since. Hi, my name is Brandon. Let's see. I've had type one diabetes for four years now, and I am currently a nursing student at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Awesome. How old are you? I am 20 years old. So my birthday is in August, so I'll turn 21 before the start of my senior year. Wow, you're 20?

Scott Benner 2:38
Yeah, I'm kind of young. No, no. That is, it feels, I think it's because Arden is 20. It probably feels particularly yelling to me. So you were diagnosed right around your 16th birthday, around that time,

Brandon 2:48
yeah, that's, that's right, I was, it was March 27 of 2021, so 16 years old, and it was kind of like a big shift in life. I guess you could say at that time, still sort of feels like it, but I've definitely gotten quite acquainted with it.

Scott Benner 3:06
Yeah, you have, how long do you think it took to go from big shift to acquainted?

Brandon 3:11
Well, for the first month, we ate just box food, because it had the carbs on it. After three months, I think I got my first CGM, which was the FreeStyle Libre two, which was, like, it worked fine, but you had to, like, scan it, which was kind of weird. And so I wasn't like, a huge fan of that. Yeah, I would say after that point, like, after I got that CGM, because I would just scan it basically, like, every, like, two minutes, every five minutes, whatever it was, just because I was not paranoid, but I was very curious. I kind of treated it like a video game, almost like I wanted to keep my blood sugar in between the two lines that kind of thing. Yes. So

Scott Benner 3:47
gamify diabetes Exactly, exactly. There have been a couple of companies who have tried, over the years to gamify diabetes with apps, and I'm sure for the people that they work for like They're awesome, but it doesn't seem to be a a widespread idea. So, yeah, tell me what you liked about it, though. Well,

Brandon 4:06
so I've seen those apps as well, and I haven't liked those apps, but I did have to download a few of them, like, like, it was a really weird chain, because when I had my I got the FreeStyle Libre three eventually, which I actually really loved. I think I prefer it over what I'm using now, which I'm on, the Omnipod five and Dexcom six. I think I like the FreeStyle Libre three more because it gave me that update every minute, so it allowed me to adjust faster. And yeah, so I had to, like, do this, like chain of apps so that I could get my libre data onto my Apple watch. It was like the weirdest thing ever, and it worked like half of the time. So that is the one thing that Dexcom does have, is they have just, like, direct connect. And I don't have to think about

Scott Benner 4:47
it. And then with libre, that doesn't work that way any longer, either, I don't think so. Yeah, that was people just making something work the way that. You know, Can I say something about technology? You're young man, so sure. I won't mention it again. But you are young, like you can see you, you might not know this, right? There is constantly stuff coming out, right? And people have to make a decision, where do I jump in on this? Yeah, do I get in now? Do I get in later? Like people are going through that with chat GPT right now and other AI models, right? Some people early adopt, which is awesome, but some people don't know that they're early adopting, and they end up with a CGM that doesn't talk to the thing. But then there's a guy online who makes an app that makes you that, and you're like and it can become frustrating if you stay in that early adopter space too long. You can feel like you're spending your whole life adjusting your tech. And I think there are some people who probably love that, which is awesome, and that's, I think, how it gets moved forward. But for the other people, like they're not looking for that they want on works, that's it, right? So when you dug into it, did you know you were digging into being early on that? Or did you did you think, Oh, this is just the way it works, and I have to adapt it to my needs.

Brandon 5:58
Yeah, I think it's the second. I think I just wanted to make the technology work for me. I wanted to have my blood sugar on my Apple watch, you know, so that I when I was walking around campus, I don't have to, like, pull my phone out and look at my phone. I just want to turn and look at my watch real quick and see, okay, that's where, that's where I'm at. You

Scott Benner 6:16
don't want to do it for convenience sake or cause you're not you're not up for people knowing you have diabetes.

Brandon 6:22
Oh no, no. Just for convenience sake. Okay, I don't really care. I tell, actually, I tell, like, not everybody, but I'm a very, like, widespread advocate, like, especially in the nursing school, about diabetes, and I kind of have been even before nursing school. I guess maybe I could explain a little bit the program like it's a two year program of, like, doing pre requisites, and then it's two years you have to apply to the nursing school, and then two years in the nursing school. So when I say in nursing school, I mean, like, my junior and senior year, yeah. So, like, before nursing school, yeah, even in high school, like, I kind of had been like, yeah, look, I'm a diabetic. And I was always really weird, like, when I first got home, like, because my cousin has diabetes as well, but it's not blood related. I talked to her and her family, and I was kind of like, look, I really want to be like an advocate for diabetes and kind of just be like, Look, I'm a type one diabetic, and this doesn't mean that I, you know, ate bad food, or, etc, etc, or, you know, type two is actually a lot of genetic as well. What

Scott Benner 7:20
made you want to be like that, like, that? Like, what made you want to be out in front of it? I don't know. I

Brandon 7:25
feel like I'm I've kind of been like a, maybe an extroverted person for most of my life, and so like just talking to people comes natural, which makes sense for me. Doing nursing. I don't know. I think I just wanted to help share, yeah, about diabetes, because it's not like, widely recognized or known about. Sometimes, do

Scott Benner 7:44
you think that that's you wanting to help others, or you wanting to make sure that people know the thing about you? Like, I didn't do anything wrong. I

Brandon 7:52
see, I see, no, I don't think it's that. I think it is mainly about helping others, which is like it, which kind of tailors into like, why my career as well? Like, I want to eventually maybe get like, an NP, like, a nurse, practitioning degree and work with diabetes, you know, and other endocrine disorders. I just want to help other people. And like, your podcast has been a help to me, and so I try to, like, spread the word to other people. Like, hey, look at this podcast. Or, like, here's this idea that the podcast gave me, and I'm giving it to you now so you can help better your care, so all

Scott Benner 8:24
that kind of thing. Thank you. Was nursing always your focus? Or did that happen after your diagnosis?

Brandon 8:30
Yeah, that happened after the diagnosis. It was when I was in the hospital that I kind of realized, wow, these nurses are really awesome, and had made my experience here really fantastic, to the point where I, you know, I wrote about them in my my intro or my essay to get into nursing school, I was like, Look, these guys have made huge impact. Like, I still remember their names, you know, yeah, and I want to be able to give that back to other people. And I remember specifically when I was in the hospital, I didn't really want to listen to any physicians or nurses or anything who didn't have diabetes, for some reason, yeah, well, no, it makes sense, because I'm like, Well, look, you haven't experienced this, like, firsthand. You don't really you can understand it medically. We don't personally understand it, maybe, and so I wanted to kind of be that that bridge almost,

Scott Benner 9:26
yeah, when you said that they these people that helped you were so lovely. Was it about vibe and feeling or about knowledge? Like, where do you think they were stronger?

Brandon 9:37
It was definitely about vibe and feeling like the nurse's job is definitely to have knowledge, like I've learned that, you know, we have to know all this stuff, but it's about how you make your patient feel, and how comfortable they feel and how because, I mean, going to the hospital is not comfortable in any way, you know, so just them being able to go. Comfort me, helped me feel, allowed me, like, take in more information and, like, remember stuff better, I think, and just feel

Scott Benner 10:08
better, right? It's interesting, because Arden was in the ER for a hot minute a week or so ago, and wow, and she just needed, like, an IV antibiotic for like, like, a tonsillitis that got out of hand. Oh, man, but, but point being that the nurse that helped us was light on information, but had a great way about her. And I realize, as you're talking, that if you would have asked me, how was the nurse in the ER that night, I would have said, Oh, she was great. But the one thing I asked her, she was so wrong about that my answer should be, well, she wasn't really very helpful. That really does kind of show what that job is about. She did a great job with the IV. You know, she didn't do anything technically incorrect, but we asked her question like, hey, this medication you're giving her. How long until this happens? And she was off by days. It's really wrong and but yet, I have a good vibe about her after leaving the hospital. It's interesting. Yeah, it's

Brandon 11:05
interesting. Stuff like that is definitely hard to remember, but the one thing that kind of nursing is about is patient centered care and focused care and making sure that the patient is getting what they need. Basically,

Scott Benner 11:19
what's the breakdown of your schooling? Technical to how to be a good nurse? Do they do? They talk to you about both of those things we don't

Brandon 11:28
really have, like, how to be a good nurse classes. It's mainly look. Here is your medic, medications that you need to remember. Here's like, all these diseases you need to remember and how they work in the body. You also need to know how the medications work in the body. There's a few classes about, like professionalism, or like evidence based practice, like research stuff like that. And then we have, for the first year, a, we call it C 10, or like skills lab. And that is, like, every Friday for like, four hours, and you are just learning a new skill, or learning a couple new skills, and just like, practicing and getting it under

Scott Benner 12:04
your like, placement or something like that, like an actual, yeah, like, hands on stuff like that. Okay, interesting. Is there anything about nursing that you don't like? I

Brandon 12:13
don't like the fact that, I mean, it kind of makes sense, but I don't like the fact that I can't, like, diagnose stuff. It's just so frustrating because, like, when you look at certain lab values, you're like, that is extremely concerning. And you definitely have X, Y, Z disease. But I can't say that. I just have to pretend like, oh yeah, everything. Maybe not pretend it's fine, but be like, Yeah, I'm just gonna take care of you until your doctor gets here as soon as possible to tell you what's wrong, that kind of

Scott Benner 12:40
thing. So having a person stand right in front of you and you have some knowledge about them that they don't have yet, you feel weird holding it back. Yeah,

Brandon 12:47
it just kills me on the inside. And like, for some of our simulations, like we one of the simulations I did, I it was like a UTI, and I was like, well, says there's bacteria in your urine. And I is fed in the simulation, yes, it looks like you have UTI. And I was, I got critique for that, because they're like, Look, you can't diagnose. I'm

Scott Benner 13:06
like, also, it's right there. It may not have been a clean catch. That's a phrase I know

Brandon 13:11
Correct. Yeah. I mean, it's totally possible. They would probably order another test and then see what happens there. So

Scott Benner 13:19
Brandon, I just took a victory lap with my arm. Nobody's here to see it. This is I knew a phrase. I mean, you, yeah, yeah, you're right. I was like, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Could not have been a clean cut possible. Okay, so two year program. How long have you been in

Brandon 13:35
it? I just finished my third year, and then I'll graduate next year. Okay,

Scott Benner 13:39
cool. Four Year program. Four year, excuse me, I was gonna say like, you're doing it wrong. Sorry. Four Year program and you graduate next, do you go right into a job? Does the nursing school help you get work, or is there just a lot of work to have? Like, how does that? How does that all shake out when you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, is the first thing you think about I love that I have to change it all the time. I love the warm up period every time I have to change it. I love that when I bump into a door frame, sometimes it gets ripped off. I love that the adhesive kind of gets mushy sometimes when I sweat and falls off. No, these are not the things that you love about a CGM. Today's episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by the Eversense 365 the only CGM that you only have to put on once a year, and the only CGM that won't give you any of those problems. The Eversense 365 is the only one year CGM designed to minimize the vice frustration. It has exceptional accuracy for one year with almost no false alarms from compression lows while you're sleeping, you can manage your diabetes instead of your CGM with the ever since 365 learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM. This episode is brought to you by a. Omnipod Would you ever buy a car without test driving it first? That's a big risk to take on a pretty large investment. You wouldn't do that, right? So why would you do it? When it comes to choosing an insulin pump, most pumps come with a four year lock in period through the DME channel, and you don't even get to try it first. But not Omnipod five. Omnipod five is available exclusively through the pharmacy, which means it doesn't come with a typical four year DME lock in period. Plus you can get started with a free 30 day trial to be sure it's the right choice for you or your family, my daughter has been wearing an Omnipod every day for 17 years. Are you ready to give Omnipod five a try. Request your free Starter Kit today at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox Terms and Conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox find my link in the show notes of this podcast player, or at Juicebox podcast.com a

Brandon 16:01
little bit of both. There's a lot of jobs right now for nurses. And on top of that, the nursing school also, like, helps you with figuring out, like, regulations and licensing and stuff like that. Because if you get a license in, for example, my state, Wisconsin, that transfers to, like, I think, like 20 ish other states and I don't have to do any extra licensing, but I want to go to, like, California or Minnesota, or, I don't know, like New York, probably there's like, additional licensing stuff that I have to take care of for the National, like board certification exam. So they help us figure out, like, the details, and also help us, like, apply for jobs and stuff like that. So they're helpful in that regard.

Scott Benner 16:42
When you're growing up through the idea of maybe becoming a nurse, it's also during the time of, like, right after covid, where people are talking about like, nurses are bailing on nursing like did did that not impact you one way or the other. I think after

Brandon 16:56
being in the hospital, I understand why that happened, and I don't blame any of the nurses that did that. I kind of, I have thought about that as well, like, what if another pandemic happens? It's probable that it will occur. In my personal opinion, this is no, this is no, like, you don't know, I don't have any insider knowledge, but I just with those, you know, global warming, etc. I just think that it's possible that another pandemic could occur in the future. And I thought about that, like, Would I be able to stay through it? And I don't know. I guess I'll figure that out when I get that out, but for now, I'm just going to do my best.

Scott Benner 17:33
That's awesome. It's nice that you're not deterred. Have you talked to other practicing nurses before you make a decision like that before, like, before you like, I'm going to nursing school. Maybe I ought to go talk to a few people about what the jobs like, or did you just be like, sorry, I'm going to make my way through it.

Brandon 17:49
That's actually, that's a good question. I think before I was, like, doing nursing school, not really. I did definitely talk to, like, a lot of the nurse practitioners, kind of, like, gaging, oh, you know, like, what is your job? How do I get your job? Like, what's your salary, etc. But not really, like the bedside nurses, I haven't really, I didn't really talk to them before nursing school. It was only, like, after I was in clinicals and things like that, that I was able to, like, understand what their job was. Like, okay, so I don't

Scott Benner 18:17
want to get you in trouble here. Okay, so, okay, but, but you listen to the podcast, you've heard a lot of people's stories about being diagnosed or going in for help and getting, like, shaky care. Yeah, and you've heard a lot of stories from people who've gotten awesome care. When you hear about the shaky care side, does it hurt you? Does it feel like somebody's coming after your profession, or you like, because you know how hard you're working at something. You know other people who are doing the same. Is it hard to hear someone be critical?

Brandon 18:49
Not really well. I mean, like, maybe a little bit, because I would like to assume that all people and nurses have like people's best interests in mind, but I've run into my fair share of nurses who I'm like, I don't know how you have a certification. Like, I don't know how you have your your certification. So there's just, like, you know, there's a few bad apples in every profession, I would say. So people who have had, you know, experienced poor care. That's super valid. You know your care and your experience is, you know what it was, right? And maybe it's because you had a nurse or a doctor who just was tuned out that day. Or maybe they're just not, you know, a great nurse or doctor, right? Yeah, it's just kind of healthcare. You know, there's nothing's perfect, so it can't, I can't say that someone else's experience is invalid because, you know, they felt a

Scott Benner 19:42
certain way, sure, but it doesn't make you feel a certain way. Doesn't make you feel attacked, maybe a little

Brandon 19:46
bit, you know, I again, Nursing is a hard job, and I don't think people would like truly understand, you know, like, if you're in the hospital and you're working with your nurse, you're not seeing how many other patients they have and how much work behind. Scenes they're doing, talking to providers, talking to pharmacy, you know, coordinating with, you know, or whatever it is. There's a lot going on. So,

Scott Benner 20:08
yeah, it's insane. Also, I feel like it can seem to the patient like a service industry. Do you know what I mean? Like, like you're a waiter.

Brandon 20:15
That's kind of how I and some other nurses describe it, yeah, sometimes, like, it is kind of a service industry trying to keep your kitchen, running back

Scott Benner 20:22
to the table, running to the kitchen, running back to the table. Like, can I get this? Can I get that? You got to keep it all in your head as you pass by people, they're yelling out the door. And for a shift that can be, how long most shifts are, standard is 12 hours. Yeah, that's a long time. How do you practice or prepare for running around for that long with type one. I have always disliked ordering diabetes supplies. I'm guessing you have as well. It hasn't been a problem for us for the last few years, though, because we began using us Med, you can too us med.com/juicebox, or call 888-721-1514, to get your free benefits. Check us med has served over 1 million people living with diabetes since 1996 they carry everything you need, from CGM to insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies and more. I'm talking about all the good ones, all your favorites, libre three, Dexcom g7 and pumps like Omnipod five, Omnipod tandem, and most recently, the eyelet pump from beta bionics, the stuff you're looking for, they have it at us. Med, 888-721-1514, or go to us. Med, Comm, slash Juicebox to get started now, use my link to support the podcast that's usmed.com/juicebox, or call 888-721-1514,

Brandon 21:49
thankfully, I have the the algorithm working for me, so that's taking care of most stuff in the background. But you know, there's some days where you don't get to lunch until one or 2pm Yeah. And for me, I don't eat breakfast because I try to do like, a little bit of intermittent fasting. So, you know, making my schedule, you know, eating my first meal at like, one or 2pm and it can, you know, my blood sugar can be fluctuating throughout the day, so I just have like, glucose tablets with me to help regulate in case, like, I start going low. So when

Scott Benner 22:19
you get to that time, when it's time to eat, you need to eat, but that's not always going to going to be the case,

Brandon 22:24
right? Sometimes you don't get a lunch either. So yeah, that's another thing you have to think about.

Scott Benner 22:30
Eat out of your dirty pocket, right? Do you have any brothers sisters?

Brandon 22:36
Yeah, I have of a younger sister,

Scott Benner 22:38
yeah. Is she concerned about diabetes at all, I

Brandon 22:43
think a little bit, she's talked to me sometimes where she's like, I've been peeing a lot. Can I test my blood sugar? I'm like, Yeah, sure, go

Scott Benner 22:50
for it. So it is in her head. She does think about it a little bit. It's in her head. Yeah,

Brandon 22:55
I tell her not to worry too much about it, and even if she does get it, you know, like she has me and my aunt and my cousin as a resource to help her, but I understand her

Scott Benner 23:05
fear. Yeah. What did you mean? Your cousin has type one, but they're not blood

Brandon 23:09
related? Yeah? Sorry, so the type one isn't blood related. It was married in to that side of the family, so we like her grandfather, who is not my grandfather, so that kind of makes my uncle, my aunt is my blood relative, and my uncle is not, and my uncle's mom had type one.

Scott Benner 23:29
Gotcha. Okay, so it's somebody you know, because you're related to them. But, I mean, I assumed that. But I was just I wasn't like, yeah, sorry, yeah, no, Brent, I wasn't, I wasn't like, What's this magic where you're related but you're not related? I just I wasn't confused, yeah. How did you find the podcast?

Brandon 23:43
Actually, through my aunt, when I was diagnosed, like my aunt was doing a good job with my cousin, for sure, for I don't even know how many years it would have been at that time, like seven years, but after I got diagnosed, she kind of, like, I don't know how necessarily to like, communicate all this information that I've learned to you to help you without overwhelming you. So she went and looked for resources online and found the podcast and then shared it with me. Oh, no. And then we both started kind of like listening to it at the same time together.

Scott Benner 24:13
Oh, that's interesting. So she wasn't a listener. She was just trying to help you,

Brandon 24:16
yeah. And then it ended up helping my cousin as well. Oh, awesome. Well,

Scott Benner 24:20
hi to everybody. That's, that's really what? Oh, what a, what a lovely thing to do for somebody. Yeah, no, she's fantastic. Yeah, no kidding. Usually, when you ask somebody for help, they'll help you, if it's like, right there, you know, he's like, oh, yeah, I know what to do. Here's the thing. No problem. I gotta go look for it. You don't usually get out of people. Oh, what a nice person. Yeah,

Brandon 24:40
no, she's lovely, and she helped me, you know, get to where I am, where I haven't had an A 1c above six for like, three years now. So good

Scott Benner 24:48
for you. Man, that's awesome. How about your parents? Because that's such an in between age. Like, did they look at you and go, Oh, he's old enough he can do this. Or were they trying to help or, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like there's this thing that happens where, when the kids are at a certain age, when they're diagnosed, the parents don't want to, like, push themselves into it where they should, like, does that make sense?

Brandon 25:10
Yeah, that one's a little bit trickier. I would say, oh, is your dad in prison? No, no, nothing like that. Nothing like that. No, both my parents were in the hospital with me, and for the first few months they they were kind of like my guide, because I was kind of tuned out at the hospital, and so I was using what information they had to kind of like guide my care a little bit. They didn't get to do injections, though, because they each did one injection, and it went awfully so I said, I will take care of that part. It's true. I mean, my dad, first time he did it, he put in my arm, and then he injected it, and immediately pulled it out, and I saw, like, four or five units spill onto the floor. And I was like, Huh, okay, so yeah, they didn't do injections for me, but they did help me with, like, figuring out carbs. And we even, you know, we did the scales and stuff at the beginning. We're like, two blueberries, is this many carbs, right? So we did all that so that we could, you know, kind of get Gage, oh, okay, a piece of bread. It's like, 1015, to 20, whatever it is, right? Depending on the size. And after we kind of, like, got that basis, I kind of just took over for the most part. And they kind of were just like, you know, checked in every once in a while, like, Hey, how's it going, how's this going, right? And, you know, sometimes you don't want your parents to know. Oh, yeah, my blood sugar has been 200 all day or whatever, right? But after a certain point, you know, I got

Scott Benner 26:37
it under control. Have you ever said the phrase, it's fine. I've got it.

Brandon 26:41
That was my coined phrase from the age of 16 to about 19. So yes, no, if

Scott Benner 26:46
you ever want to marry a girl in New Jersey and make a baby that's definitely gonna have diabetes, she knows that phrase too. You can come right over and start chatting with her.

Brandon 26:55
It's fine. I got it fine. I've used that one before too.

Scott Benner 27:01
I feel fine. It's fine. I've got it. Dad, leave me alone. Stop. It's just such a balance. Like, so your parents let you lead the way a little bit. Do you think that when they stepped back? Have you ever talked to them about it like was their expectation? Like they really thought you had it? Or they were like, well, you know, he's not doing great, but it seems like a like a pain point that we don't want to push through.

Brandon 27:22
I never had officially, like, talked to them about it, but I think they kind of just wanted to see how it worked out for me. And I think they trusted me, because I have been pretty responsible for most of my life, so I think they trusted me in figuring it out. Yeah, kind of that

Scott Benner 27:39
makes sense. One of the hardest things to do, I think, parenting wise, is like, people will say it like, oh, to watch your kids make mistakes, but, you know, they have to do them. I don't think of it as even a mistake. It's a it's like a learning process. And, you know, like when the learning process is touching the stove and it's hot, you want to step in and say, don't touch the stove, right? And you do when they're young, and you should, right? But then where does that line get drawn? Like, do you let them fall? Do you let them, like, linger after they've fallen? Do you let them make friends with somebody where it's not going to work out? Like, do you let them, you know, do you while they're dating somebody that you're like, This is not right. And it's not just me being a jerk here, like this, this person's not right for a reason. I should point out. Do you say that? Do you hold it inside like you go through this constantly, but when you get to diabetes, especially when you've raised a kid with it, and you're like, you know, years into it, and you know, if we Bolus right here. If we do this with the temp basal, if we do that, your blood sugar is never getting high. Like, but once they take the reins, like, stepping back and saying, I know there's value in this learning experience, but I don't want the learning experience to tip over into a bad habit, like, how do you stay in the Batman I'm telling you, yeah, it's a tightrope walk that just it sucks. I don't know another way to say it.

Brandon 29:08
Roy, yeah. I think the weird part about my situation is that because I was diagnosed so late and my parents were only involved for a certain amount of time, they kind of lack that knowledge and experience that even my aunt had, that my aunt has, right because she took care of it for you know, I think it's like 14 years at this point, something like that might be even longer. So sorry, tired to my aunt, if she's listening, because she probably will. They don't have that knowledge. So it's kind of just on me, especially now. And I think a year ago, I kind of was like, Well, I wish they knew more, because there's times where they, you know, they'll make a comment, or they'll say something, and I'm like, No man, that's that's not even close to being right, but yeah, and I maybe I'll say, well, and I don't think so right, but,

Scott Benner 29:55
but they were never really in the fight, so they didn't really have to learn the tools

Brandon 29:59
Exactly. Thing. And that doesn't mean that they're not supportive still, and they want the best for me, it's just that they don't maybe fully understand it.

Scott Benner 30:06
Yeah, of course. Because how would they even do that? Right? Like you imagine you're taking care of it. There's already you're 16, there's already a parental child struggle that goes on one way or the other. And if they were like, listen, you're taking care of this, that's great, but teach us as you're learning, because we want to know too. You would have been like, Get away from me. Right, right? Yeah, definitely. And you seem like a pretty level headed person. Thank you. Yeah, were you when you were 16 for

Brandon 30:31
the most part? Yeah, you haven't been a real dick to your parents at any point. Maybe not, maybe a little bit. I mean, that's obviously me talking about myself in front of a million people, but hard to know. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I guess I probably don't have the same perspective that I have. Like, but now you're not dude.

Scott Benner 30:48
You weren't doing heroin and like stuff like that, yeah, going crazy. You weren't somebody who, like, every five seconds they were like, oh my god, what is he doing now? Like, it wasn't like that.

Brandon 30:57
No, they kind of just like, let me be for the most part, because I would just kind of stay out of trouble and do good in school. So

Scott Benner 31:04
all right, trying to figure out, because you said you were a little disconnected in the hospital, which I understand, you're probably in shock about all this stuff going on, right? So your parents are taking in information, but it pretty quickly pivots to you, you go to your your did you go to your aunt? Or did your aunt go to you?

Brandon 31:19
I mean, she kind of like helped me get diagnosed in a way, like she had a post on Facebook that my sister saw that was, like a reoccurring post every year about like signs and symptoms of type one, and then my sister would talk to my mom, and my mom took me to my aunt, and then she helped me get, like a finger stick. And then she was like, go to the hospital. And then she kind of was involved in my care a little bit after that, just kind of like calling and checking in, like, Hey, do you need? Hey, do you need anything? Yeah, we, at that time, we only lived like a block or two away from them as well, and this was also during, like, the pandemic, though, a little bit, so we were cautious, but she did, you know, come and help, like,

Scott Benner 31:54
you're acquainted a little bit. Your little sister diagnosed your diabetes from your aunt's Facebook post, yeah, basically here, that's awesome,

Brandon 32:03
yeah, I know, and I have to live every day knowing that my sister can hold that over

Scott Benner 32:08
me. Now, no kidding, how much younger than you is she? I think she's three years younger. So your 13 year old sister comes to you one day and goes, Hey, you have diabetes. No, she went to my parents. Your parents said, Hey, this one over here is peeing a lot. We got to do something. I saw something online. No kidding. Wow, that's crazy. Good for her. What's her name? Her name's Caitlin. Caitlin saves the day. That's awesome. Good job. So did you not know anything was wrong?

Brandon 32:36
I guess, kind of like while I was living it, not really like I knew I felt very depressed and always tired, but I assumed that was because there was a global pandemic happening, and I hadn't talked to people in like, a long time, but I knew I was eating like five meals a day and drinking like 100 something ounces of water every day. So

Scott Benner 32:56
do you remember the moment that you're I'm assuming your mom got tasked to come to you and say, Hey, Caitlin thinks you have type one diabetes. We should go. Were you like, What the What are you talking about? Yeah,

Brandon 33:06
for sure. I was like, Heck no, that's not possible. Because, I mean, at this time, I had no idea anything about medical field, anything, yeah, the signs were there, for sure. But I was like, hell no, I don't have that

Scott Benner 33:18
must have been insane. I would I imagine the look on your face was these two big like, oh god. I almost made a reference that maybe is 40 years old.

Brandon 33:27
Oh man, oh my

Scott Benner 33:29
God. Have you ever seen the wolf in the old cartoons that sees the pretty girl and its eyes bug out?

Brandon 33:34
There's Oh, Looney Tunes. Well,

Scott Benner 33:38
yeah. I mean, yeah, you know that. Okay, yeah, I kind of know you're talking. I like, I see you, like, like, with your just your eyes, like, bugging out of your head. Like, what are you talking about? And now, by the way, I'm seeing a thumbnail for your episode, which is a young nurse with his eyes bugging.

Brandon 33:54
I like it, yeah, you

Scott Benner 33:56
must have been like, what is happening right now? That's a crazy way to find out.

Brandon 33:59
Yeah. And then blood sugar was like, 350 or 360 or something about it's like, let's do that again. Let's just wash your hands. And then she's like, You should probably go to ER.

Scott Benner 34:08
So by the way, the most frequently word heard words before a type one diabetes diagnosis are, let's wash your hands and try that again. I guarantee it. So your sister just rolled past you every once in a while and go, Hey, do you remember that time I diagnosed you? Time I diagnosed

Brandon 34:23
you with diabetes? Yeah, that happens. Oh, I would do that for sure. I still live at home so she Oh no for 100%

Scott Benner 34:28
like, even in the middle of an argument. If you're like, hey, you know your shoes are always in the floor, I'd be like, Oh, my God, they are. I'll get them right after I remind you that I helped you with your diabetes that time. Yeah, yeah. I'd be a dick about it, for sure, in a fun way. I just want to say yeah, for sure. Awesome. So okay, all right. So let me go back to my question, what, what? And by the way, good job keeping me on track. I got you what kind of nursing is attractive to you?

Brandon 34:54
So yes, it is like that. You can kind of choose where you want to go. Mm. And for me, I want to do diabetes stuff in the long term, but in the short term, it's not super possible with like, just a bachelor's degree. Like, I could go work at like, a clinic, but then I would kind of only be doing like that intake stuff. Like, Hey, what's your name, etc, right? You want to get your hours right, right? I'm going to take your a 1c right? Yeah, that's not really what I want to do. I want to be more on the MP side of things where I am helping you help, like, with care. Like, hey, I need new insulin prescription. I need, I want a Dexcom, right? Stuff like that. Like, that's what I want to be doing long term. But for short term, I have no idea. So I've kind of just, like, left it up in the air. I'm like, maybe I'll go work bedside. Maybe I'll go work in a clinic. Maybe I'll work in cardiology. Who knows, right? Yeah, I'll just, I'll figure it out. Game experiences, whoever offers me the most money, I'll go there.

Scott Benner 35:52
Would you ever do travel nursing? Yeah, you would okay, you have no problems, like, like, like, just leaving the state and going somewhere and trying somewhere

Brandon 35:59
else. Yeah, sounds good, as long as, like, again, it's like, the whole licensing thing, right? You got to figure that out. But, yeah, I'll do that. That sounds like fun. Hey, yeah, I'll go to Miami, pick me, get me out of Wisconsin.

Scott Benner 36:11
Cold. My friend's daughter does it right now, I think she's pretty happy where she is at the moment. But she's been in, like, Arizona, Hawaii, Baltimore. She actually left Baltimore, like, she went to her mom and said, I have to get out of this hospital. I'm no longer shocked by seeing someone be shot. I need to leave that. That's how she told her mom, like, she's like, I'm numb to a gunshot. And I think that means I have enough experience. I gotta go. So, yeah, that's fair, yeah. So she went somewhere else. Now you're listening to the podcast, and people are talking about their experiences with doctors and nurses and healthcare in general. Is that helping to inform how you want to do your job?

Brandon 36:50
Certainly, yeah, that is like kind of what I have drawn on for, even just like our general care, I just want to make sure that people have a good experience in the hospital, you know, maybe not to the point so much where they like remember my name, like I did with my nurses. But I just want them to help ease their pain and help them get acquainted to like their new lives, if they're, you know, going through major surgery, etc, or whatever it is, you know, it's, it's not easy, and I just want to make it as easy as I can for them.

Scott Benner 37:23
Did you hear the Grand Rounds series? No, okay, so there's a series in the podcast, and it's just called Grand Rounds. But what I did was I went into the Facebook group and I collected, I mean, we made an exhaustive, seriously exhaustive list of what people wished their doctors would have done or not have done during their their intake, their early days, you know, through diagnosis, through learning, and then beyond. And we ordered those things as far as, like you know, at the hospital, like, you know, going home, like, kind of in that, like, chronological order, we took all of their feedback, and Jenny and I sat down and talked through it all. And then after that, I brought in, I think there's at least five or six different physicians, endocrinologists, sometimes people with type one diabetes who are endocrinologist people who have type one in their lives, but are different kinds of doctors, and we talked with each of them about what they thought care should look like.

Brandon 38:27
That sounds really interesting.

Scott Benner 38:30
It might be. And I'm wondering, if you end up going through it, what you'll find you're just kind of like in the perfect position, because I keep wondering, like, you know, your aunt finds the podcast. She gets it over to you. You've got an A, 1c, under six. That's awesome. But, like, I keep thinking, like, is there a way to get to doctors too? Like, you know, there's this podcast has been going on for a long time. Now. People are going to grow up listening to it who have type one diabetes. Some of them are going to become nurses and physicians and MPs and etc, right, I'm trying to figure out, like, how can we get the message from people going through it back to doctors so that they can make you know better decisions, or know what to look out for anyway? On my website now, under guides, there's two links. One's called improving type one diabetes care, a guide for physicians, and there's one called Juicebox for Doc's Grand Rounds takeaways. And they're both, like, pretty exhaustive. I mean, I'd almost call them like research reports, but they're made with an AI model, but only from the transcripts from the Grand Rounds series.

Brandon 39:42
Yeah, sure, yeah. I mean, I'm all good with AI. So,

Scott Benner 39:46
yeah, no, you're young. You don't care. But my point is, is that some people listening, right there he is, again with the AI. Here's what I can tell you, I had upwards of like 20 hours of recordings. Wow, with doctors talking about their experiences with Jenny, and I really picking through everybody's feedback. And there's a lot in there. And I'm not, I don't know who you all think I am, but if I sit down to pick through 20 hours of this, to take, you know, to write down takeaways and take notes as I'm going through like that's never, I'm never gonna get that accomplished, right? So at one point it wasn't so much so, but at this point now, like these AI models are much better writers than they used to be even nine months ago, and they're much better at pulling out information. And you can kind of keep them on task by telling them, like, do not leave this information, do not go to the internet. Don't put in your own thoughts. Just pull this information out, and then you can go back and hand check it afterwards, which is what we did, right? Yep, if you're looking for, you know, basically 90 people's thoughts about what they wish would have happened for them, and six really awesome physicians thoughts on what they think they should be doing, all collected together. It's a good read. Yeah, I don't know how to get it out into the world. I look at it, I think, I don't think anybody's seeing this, because what are you gonna do? Right? Like, we didn't send an email to a doctor's office and go, you should read this. Like they'll be like, Oh, good,

Brandon 41:15
yeah. Be like, all right. And next email, Hey, I got an email

Scott Benner 41:19
from a podcaster who thinks they know how to be a doctor, that's how it's gonna feel, right? So it's up to people like you, or people in healthcare to, first of all, actually believe in it, and then secondly, give it to somebody else. And that's, you know, what I'm hoping for, I guess,

Brandon 41:36
yeah, no, I've, I've kind of thought about that as well from the podcast. Like just being able to like you are kind of raising a generation of people who are learning about this information, and we can go into the field. And I mean to be honest, when I am talking about diabetes, even to like my nursing cohort, like I that was one thing I tried to do, is educate them on type one diabetes, be a one on other, like 159 of us, whatever there is. I want them to be able to go into the healthcare field and be like, Oh, I remember the thing that Brandon told me at, you know, whenever, when I was talking about this nursing research before class started, or when we were just having a conversation in the lounge, right? I'm trying to educate them, mostly with stuff from the podcast and also from stuff from my life about type one diabetes, break those stereotypes and help them, kind of like, understand what it is to have type one diabetes and how to take care of people who have type one diabetes, so that they don't have those experiences. Yeah, but I didn't know about that series, because I've just been listening from zero forward, basically, oh yeah,

Scott Benner 42:46
no, I figured that out. Because earlier you said something about like, like, Oh, I didn't realize you did that. Or something like, Oh, you, hi. You hired an editor. Like, yeah, yeah, you're not up to that part yet. No, no, and I'm going to tell you something Brandon like, this will sound self serving, but it's not you listen to this podcast straight through, I think you'll be an excellent diabetes educator. Yeah, yeah, I

Brandon 43:09
really. I think so too. And that's kind of what I found. Like, I'm only like, 600 episodes in something like that. It's a small things like being able to just glean that small information from people talking about their their time. You can hear their tone right, right? And you can hear how that experience impacted the rest of their their care. So it's really important to get it right at the beginning.

Scott Benner 43:32
Yeah, that's such my takeaway after making grand rounds, actually. And you'll hear me harp on it when you get to it. But the way they start is often the way they finish. And you just don't realize what a misplaced word or sentiment or ill timed piece of advice or an idea could throw somebody so far off the track that they can't find their way back, you know, and then once they even if they realize they're in trouble, if they intersect another person who doesn't know how to get them back quickly. It just spins out of control. Yeah, and then I end up interviewing those people when they're 35 and 40 and 45 years old, and they're like, Oh God, I found the podcast last year. And they say stuff like, why didn't I find this earlier? Because they're thinking about their lost time and their lost health. And if you could hear those stories, and you were the person intersecting somebody on day one with their diagnosis, I think it would change how you spoke to them. It definitely would, yeah, but I don't think that sitting in a room in an hour and a half class where somebody puts that up in bullet points in front of you is going to make the same impact

Brandon 44:41
Exactly. And, I mean, that's kind of my little thing, like I've seen. We've had lectures on diabetes, but it mainly focuses on type two, because that's just the, you know, it's the more common one. It makes sense that I would, if I was making material, I would do that too, yeah, but we have done a little bit of type one. But. It's not satisfactory for me personally. And so there's times where I just like ask a question that I obviously know the answer to, but I just want my professor to say a certain phrase or sentence so that maybe that sticks with the people in my class. You know, things like that. I just want to try to educate them. Even

Scott Benner 45:20
with teaching, you get lucky and you get unlucky sometimes, like, sometimes, right? You just you get a great instructor, somebody who cares, and they're thoughtful, and they get it, and then sometimes you don't, and that's not even under your control either, like, so you might go through an entire course and not get the same takeaway you would have gotten if you randomly got placed with a different instructor, and there's, there's nothing you can do. But this, again, I know this sounds self serving, but like this podcast is the best way to disseminate this information, because, man, at 20 years old, you just said, sometimes you just hear a tone in their voice, and you can kind of like, get what they're saying differently. Like, I was so touched by that, because I spent a lot of time talking to people and getting them comfortable and saying stupid stuff to them so they're not nervous, so that they might say five things in an hour, that somebody, at the end goes, Oh, that's the stuff that's going to stick with me when it's over. And those are the things that make it easier to keep your a 1c under six or help you when you know it's the middle of the night and you're sick and your blood sugar is like, rocketing up. And like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And then you think, no, I do know what to do. Because some lady on some episode said a thing that stuck with you and you, and you pull that out like your Batman, and it's like, and you're like, boom, this is the tool I need. Like, right off my belt. Like I didn't, yeah, I didn't even remember it was there. But now that I know I need it, whoa, here it is, and I know how to use it,

Brandon 46:46
Yeah, certainly. And I mean, I feel, I feel especially that way, because, you know, that is my job as a nurse. Our job is about education as well. That's like, the big part of it is we're learning our material so that we can teach you when we end up taking care of you. And so the more I can do now to help educate my classmates, the more that they can do to help educate other people in the

Scott Benner 47:09
future. I'm super excited to hear you say that, because a second ago, you said, look, they spend a lot more time telling us about type two diabetes and type one because it's more you know, frequently seen. But you ever meet people with type two diabetes, they don't know anything about their type two diabetes, like, so that means they're spending extra time teaching you something, and it's still not actually impacting the end user. Do you know you mean, like, you know more about it, hopefully. But there's something about the process that doesn't leave people informed. And it's not just diabetes, I'm telling you, it's not just diabetes, it's everything. Anytime you hear somebody deal with a medical issue, that's not one and done, that's not a pill and it's over, right? Because I don't need to know how you fix my shoulder. Like, it's cool. It works again. Like, thank you. It's awesome. Let me definitely pay the bill, and I might even send a card over and say, thanks. So if I bump into you at the grocery store, grocery store to shake your hand right? Like, that's awesome. If something I'm dealing with every day isn't understood, then we all tend to, like, try to let it melt into the background. We ignore it. It's where phrases like, oh, that's just diabetes comes from. You know, like, Oh, your blood sugar has been 300 all day. Yeah, it's just diabetes. Nothing I can do it. Nothing I can do about it. You know, I've got the sugars, whatever, like, version of that, wherever you are in the country, you know, I've heard people say, Oh, it's my whole family's got it. It's gonna get me one day. Like, wow, you're 28 years old, and you've already resolved yourself to the fact that you're gonna die early from type two diabetes, because you've seen it happen to a few people in your family. I'm like, right? That's crazy. I don't know what to do about that systemically, other than to say that a person like you, like a front lines person, right, who has the knowledge coupled with the understanding of what it's like to live with it. I think you will probably be responsible for more good launches for people over a 30 year career than you'll be able to count. And I'm telling you, man, like I find a ton of value in what I do, and personal value too. Like, I was just standing with Arden's endocrinologist yesterday. We were chatting, and she told me about a person she helped recently, like no big details, but like, this person had PCOS, and nobody would help her. And so this doctor got her onto a GLP, and it alleviated her symptoms so significantly, and her pain and her struggle so significantly that the next time she saw her, the woman just walked into the office and grabbed her and started crying and just hugged her, like hugged the doctor, because of the relief that was been brought to her. Yep. And she said to me, Well, you know what I'm talking about. And I said, I do. And I told her I was like, if you would have met me 30 years ago. Know, you would not have been like, I bet that guy, one day is going to find a ton of comfort and value in helping people live better with diabetes. I'm like, Yeah, that was not me. Like, actually, if you knew me back, then you'd be laughing right now, how ridiculous that sounds, right? But at the same time, the next thing I said to her was, I'm so happy, and I feel so valuable. And every time I look up and hear from somebody, or see somebody doing better, I think like, you know, that's another kind of I don't know like, root in the world, or tentacle, that that is an offshoot of the thing I do every day. And I try to think of it as like, not just like, you know, you reach a mom today who maybe helps raise a kid who's never gonna have a bunch of problems because they understood this stuff, but then one day, that kid might have a kid who has diabetes. By having these conversations, we all might be helping somebody who isn't gonna be born for 20 years. And I think that's awesome. I think you could do that too,

Brandon 51:05
yeah? And, I mean, that's kind of what I hope to do, but and make some money, as you said earlier, yeah, and make some money. But, you know, it's not just that's not just me. Though anyone can kind of do this, right, like anyone can be an advocate for diabetes. And, you know, talk about, yeah, this is kind of what my life is like. And you can talk to your doctors, your nurses, things like that, and kind of be like, Hey, this is how diabetes has affected me, right? And give your story to them. And who knows, maybe that changes the way they look at it in the future as well.

Scott Benner 51:37
And you're not going to save everyone, and everybody's not of the same mindset, right? Like, so you might give somebody a great launch, and they might just not care, and I don't think it's because they don't care. I mean, if you listen to the podcast, I don't think anybody doesn't care about their health, right? I think that people are often impacted by other psychological, financial, et cetera, like situations that can stop them from taking as good care of themselves, like just being super busy, like, you know, like working 12 hours a day. How do you prioritize things? Like, it's, it's almost impossible, right? Yeah. Like, but for those people that you get a hold of, and not only have you given them a good launch, but you've given them good tools, now they can break it all down and make it make sense for themselves, and then when they need help, they won't be lost about how to go find more help either. Like, you know, you say to people, like, advocate for yourself. You know, most people don't know what that means, right, right? Like most Yeah, yeah. Most people assume I go to get my tires changed, I don't need to advocate that the guy puts the stem cap back on right? Like he should know how to do that. All of those situations like you just expect people to know, and you don't think I have to advocate for this. Like no one goes to a doctor thinking, I better make sure they do the right thing.

Brandon 52:56
I think the best way that I've learned like this was a my my pediatric endocrinologist made this a goal for me, like, learn how to advocate for yourself. And first I was like, what does that mean? But eventually, I kind of realized that it is getting as much knowledge as you can, arming yourself with that knowledge, and then feel free to question your doctors and your nurses right, challenge them in a respectful way, because maybe it'll help them think about whatever the problem is in a different way, in a different light. Just try something because they have a lot of patience and a lot of other things maybe going in their lives. So if you challenge that thought, you might break them out of that autopilot for a little bit and just kind of help you get the best care that you can

Scott Benner 53:43
have. But I'm saying that next step, like, say, You challenge a healthcare provider and they don't really know the answer, they could ball up and just play defense right. Their ego could get in the way. They could get embarrassed. They could just be like, Oh, you're a pain. Like, do you know, how many people I know have advocated for themselves, and in their chart, it says that they're problematic.

Brandon 54:05
Yeah, I hate when I hear nurses being like, Oh, this person's uncompliant. I'm like, yeah, they try other things. Or are they just talking and advocating for themselves? You know, exactly,

Scott Benner 54:16
like there's a difference between, hey, you need to take this pill at three, six and nine, and they don't do it, and you saying something incorrect to them and then pushing back, and they're not listening to me, right, right, right? That's a big difference. And so, you know, in the end, right? That's, that's just people like, you know, some people are gonna take that job and be right for it. Some people are gonna be a nurse and not be right for it. Some people might be very caring and human, but not very technically adept, or vice versa. You're not getting a robot, you know what I mean. So although, let me ask you about that, Brian, you're 20 years old, AI is doubling on itself. A. About every six months, right? Yeah, did you ever think I might have picked something that that might not be the same in my lifetime?

Brandon 55:08
I mean, I kind of hope it's not the same in my lifetime. Actually, this is interesting. Our school is very AI, I guess, and they actually encourage us to use it for, you know, not for cheating purposes, but for, like, prepping and stuff. So like, I've used it for, like, preparing for boarding, like the board exam, like I can just ask, Hey, make a question that the board exam would ask me about this problem, right? But in practice, I'm very excited for what it will look like in the next 2030, years, even when in the way that we can, like, save time, like aI listening to your conversation and recording it and auto charting it for you, saving me, like 10 minutes of that conversation, like I have to go chart that eventually. But if it just is auto charted, and I can just look through it and be like, yeah, that looks accurate to what we talked about, then I can move on to the next patient and just start doing that right? Or, I don't know, I did some research recently, or, like, helped participate in some research about, you know, delivering water and delivering messages through robots. And I thought that was really interesting and cool, because it takes more off of the nurses plate, so they can do other things as well. So I'm hoping in the future that AI does take parts of my job, because I want to be able to do the other parts of my job even

Scott Benner 56:27
better. Yeah, oh, see, this is exciting to me. I like, I like talking to somebody your age that's in your position right now. That's, that's really great, because I feel the same way, right? I mean, listen for those people like, I don't know, that sounds like something that's gonna like, you know, they're thinking Terminator when they hear it right now, I'm not saying it can't end up being that. I'm just saying, right, right. Okay, you're asking 20 year old Brandon to go to school and learn something and then learn a lot of things. And he's already telling you they don't really teach us much about type one diabetes, for example. There's also a lot of other things they're not teaching him about. Imagine that our lovely brand in here could learn everything, right? Everything, and that when you asked him a question, he just said the answer, and he knew it immediately. That's what you're talking about. When you're talking about AI, you're talking about a large language model that is trained only on the information that you want it to have, right? So you go get all the information in the world you need about nursing, and you put it into this model. You give people a prompt to ask a question that you could give it a voice prompt like, if none of you have yet downloaded the chat GPT app for your iPhone and just had a conversation with it about something, it's a great way to learn about what I'm talking about, right? And I mean a literal, out loud conversation, not even texting it, questions, like, because you realize you hear something and that makes you think something else. It's the way I interview people, right? Like you and I don't know each other. There's no notes here. Like, I'm not following a format. When I'm talking to you, you said something, it made me think something. I asked a question. Sometimes it leads to nothing, sometimes it leads to something. Sometimes I ask a person a question and I get back an answer on my car, and I guess I probably could have skipped that. Sometimes I get back. Oh, yeah, no, Scott, I am a little upset because my father used to beat me and blah, and then you go, like, you learn something from somebody, right? So you can do that with AI. So try to imagine that AI has all the current medical knowledge that we hold, and you get to ask it a question, hey, my fever is this? I felt like this over the last three days. Here's some background on me. I have type one diabetes, I have Hashimotos, I have acne, I have heavy periods. I This that, imagine you said it to that, and then five seconds later it came back and it said, Oh, you're probably anemic. Your blah, blah, blah needs to be stronger. This needs to happen. That that's information that, if you're lucky, you'll get out of your doctor over 18 months of visits every three months, if that doctor can hold all that stuff in their head about what's wrong with you, which they're not going to so you go to them in June and you just mention, my periods have been heavy. That's it. You that You say that right when you come back three months later, they don't remember that like they don't. But you might say the next piece that, along with the heavy periods, would lead them to go, oh, this plus this is that that's not going to happen for you, unless you're lucky, unless you're advocating, and you get a great doctor, and you get lucky and you look into it, and blah, blah, blah, otherwise, imagine if you just kept saying that to an AI, and one day it just spit back to you, like, here's all the things you've said to me. Here are the things I think we should look into. Take that to a doctor,

Brandon 59:42
right? And then you just think about the situation you talked about at the beginning of our conversation. Like, what does this medication do? Or, like, how long does it take for it to do its thing right? It just be like, Yeah, three days, whatever it is, right? And you don't have to rely on that. I mean, I don't. Remember all of that stuff, man, like she I'll try my best. I'll probably have to go look it up after you ask me. I'll be like, All right, let me go quickly, look at my encyclopedia of drugs and just be like, okay, yep, I remember it

Scott Benner 1:00:11
now. This wasn't a bad person. And for clarity, I said Arden was getting an IV steroid. And I said, How long do you think it's going to take for her her blood sugar, because I was thinking, because we need to, like, we're going to ramp up her, her basal and get ahead of it. And she goes three days. And I was like, Okay, thank you. And then she walked 24 hours, by the way. Then my human nature jumped in. I was like, this lady, don't know what she's talking about. What she was probably thinking was like, how soon until she's getting maybe, I don't know what she was thinking. It doesn't even matter, right? Like, but she did not understand type one diabetes well enough to know that what I meant was, How long until this makes her blood sugar higher. I assumed she'd understand that, and then when she didn't, I got gruff about it, like, not outwardly, but in my head, I was like, All right, well, I gotta talk to her anymore about stuff like this, right? Like this, right, right. Here's the thing I haven't shared yet. Is that a half an hour before Arden and I left for the hospital, I did two things. I spoke to her physician, because I said, this looks like it's becoming emergent. I don't know that we should be waiting until tomorrow, right? And I so I spoke on the phone to her physician, who said, I agree with you. I think you should go to the hospital. I was like, Okay. And then I spent, I'm gonna tell you, four minutes while Arden was upstairs, getting her charger and putting on more comfortable clothing to go to the hospital with, and all that stuff, I spent four minutes on my phone explaining to chat GPT what had been going on with Arden for the last week and a half. And then I asked it what to expect when I got to the hospital and Brandon, I am not lying to you. I know we got a good NP that night, because everything she did was literally what chat GPT said she was going to do. And in the order that she did it is the order it gave it back to it had,

Brandon 1:02:01
that's crazy. I mean, not, not too crazy, though, because it makes sense, like we follow procedures,

Scott Benner 1:02:07
yeah, because that lady learned from procedures, and so did chat GPT, right? I knew I had a good person standing in front of me, because she was recalling what she was taught in almost a robotic way. So I was like, All right, she knows what she's doing. So I got comfortable, like, I'm gonna listen to her. Then we got to a point in the evening, I'm going to tell you it was at 230 in the morning. Oh my where she wanted to keep Arden overnight to get another round of IV antibiotics. And I did not want that to happen, but I also wanted to make sure that it wasn't medically necessary. So while she was gone, I asked all of my questions to chat GPT to find out what her concerns might be. And then when she came back, I said to her, can you tell me why you're asking her to stay the night? What is your real concern? Because we can go pick up more antibiotics in the morning orally, and keep going like she's got the IV infusion of it. It's gonna last until midday tomorrow. You're gonna, right? You're gonna tell me to get up, go to the pharmacy, take get this Med, start taking it. That's what you're gonna tell me, right? And she said, Yes. And I said, Okay, why does she need to get it by an IV one more time? I'm like, what are you really worried about? Now I already knew what she was really worried about, because the computer told me okay, but also because I had my own intuition about what it was. But I didn't lead her to the answer. I let her tell me what she thought she was worried about, obstruction. I see okay, because Arden's tonsils were overlapping.

Brandon 1:03:42
Yep, like that makes sense. So what? Airway obstruction?

Scott Benner 1:03:45
Yes. Okay, so she said, I'm worried about airway obstruction. I said, Okay, I thought that might be what you're saying. So this has nothing to do with the antibiotics or clearing up what's going on. She goes, No. I said, well, she's been like this for seven days. This is exactly what I said. She's been like this for seven days, and she's not dead yet, so I assume this is going to be okay. And I do also think that the broad spectrum antibiotics you hit her with are going to work pretty quickly, because Arden had already tried two different antibiotics the week before that didn't touch her problem. I said, do you agree with that? And she said, Yes. And I said, Okay, if I promise to take her to an ENT tomorrow. If there's any problems, do you have any trouble with her leaving? And she said, Nope, that sounds good. I didn't push her into it. I wasn't being difficult, right? She and I together got to a comfortable decision that I was only able to really get to because I used AI to find out what it was she

Brandon 1:04:38
was thinking, Yeah, and you respectfully challenged her, right?

Scott Benner 1:04:41
And I checked myself too, with AI, like, if I thought something, like, I at one point, I said to it, I'd like to take her home, but I don't want to cause a medical emergency. Like, what are all the reasons why I wouldn't want to take her home right now? Like, so I knew before I anyway, like, I'm just telling you, like, that's a. Long way to say, I think there's going to be a time in the very near future where you're going to be recorded while you're talking to your patients, I hope so, everything you're saying and everything they're saying, and then you're going to go back to a screen or a terminal, and it's already going to tell you what you should be thinking about. Yep, yeah.

Brandon 1:05:21
And, I mean, to be fair, like there are some limitations, and we we explored that, like one of our professors wanted us to explore what the limitations are right now, but that's right now, and who's, who's to say in a few years that those limitations are going to be gone, and we don't have to worry about them as much.

Scott Benner 1:05:39
Listen half the people listening to this, not half of them, but a lot of people listening to this right now are probably living with undiagnosed something right like hypothyroidism or anemia or low vitamin D or any number of things. It's really genuinely, meaningfully impacting your health and happiness. And you are just saying things to yourself like, well, I'm older now. I get you know I was I was, I was going to gain weight, I got older, I was going to be more tired. This happened to me. I have diabetes. That makes sense. That's not true. I put up an episode last week. It's just with this girl. She's like, in her mid 20s, and she's a little on her own. You know what I mean? Like, she doesn't really have very helpful parents. She's got a number of different medical issues, and they're not being addressed. It took me a half an hour of talking to her. I was like, Hey, I think you're anemic. Hey, I think you have this. Are you being treated for your thyroid situation? Oh, they said it wasn't bad enough. Oh, what the does that mean? Right? You have all these thyroid symptoms. They're not giving you the medication. She goes, No, they said it's not bad enough. I'm like, Is your hair falling out? Are you tired all the time? Are you lethargic? Do you feel depressed? She's like, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm like, seems bad to me over Hey, I've even done that in episodes where I've sat down with somebody and just said, Tell me everything that's wrong with you. We just beat it into an AI model, and it comes back. And I'm like, here, like, take that to your doctor. Like, you know what? I mean, it's just, I get very frustrated by it. But of course, I think it's because I have a lot of conversations people who are generally speaking in that situation. But anyway, you all got to get out of your own way and just do what's going to help people, and not do what you think is going to save your job or your but I mean, that's what we're going to run into, is that they're going to be people fighting against this stuff, tooth and nail, some for very good reasons, and I'm not unaware of those reasons, by the way, what's the great example? Like, if you told a robot, like, make as many paper clips as you can, don't let anything stand in your way. Like, what happens when, like, they run out of metal and they don't know to stop, and they start, you know, rip their robots rip down the buildings to melt the I beams, to make more paper clips, like that, like like that. All needs to be worked out, obviously. And there are going to be plenty of people Brandon who are going to use this stuff in a nefarious way, right? Yeah, you're going

Brandon 1:07:53
to get, I mean, like, it's like, I said, you put the nurses at the beginning. There's a few bad apples in every profession, right? It happens.

Scott Benner 1:07:59
Yeah. I'm just telling you, like, try to imagine a world where you sit down in front of your computer, explain how you feel, and before you even reach a clinician, you know what's wrong, and you can then send it to them and let them re evaluate it. Now you've got human eyes on it, right and and, boom, you're to your answer right away, Yep,

Brandon 1:08:21
yeah, I agree. I will have to put one caveat in here, please, for right now, please do not be Dr Google and like, fight against your healthcare professionals like hell because you found something online that said XYZ, yes, it's good to respectfully challenge them, like Scott was talking about in his example, be like, hey, question. I'm gonna ask this question, I'm gonna ask this question, and I'm gonna state My reasoning for why I'm thinking this. But don't be like, Well, Google said this. So this is true. They are still. They have gone through hundreds of 1000s of hours of medical training and experience. They we do know what we're talking about most of the time. There's just, like, some small things. So please be respectful to your healthcare workers. Thank you. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:07
there's a ton of things you might not know to ask, right? So if you don't know to ask, you're not going to get the answer back and listen. Also, many of you are going to go to awesome doctors and nurses, like, absolutely awesome. But that's not why the conversation needs to happen. The conversation needs to happen because a you don't know which is which Right. Like, if I go to a doctor, my expectation is they're a great doctor. If they're not, how do I know that right? That's good. That's a good question. How do I know I'm not getting the care I should like? If I if there are two people in front of me, like a game show, and I picked the left door, not the right door, and I would have got a better answer in the right door. I'm never gonna know, because the doctor in the left door is gonna go, oh, Brandon, here's your problem, yeah, and here's what we're gonna do. And blah, blah, blah. And six months later, you're like, still, like, hey man, my ass is still dragging, you know what I mean? Like, I don't like, you're not even gonna think maybe the guy sent me the wrong way. Like, maybe. Maybe she didn't know what she was talking about. Like, that's not it. Here's a big picture answer to my question. Generally speaking, how many visits to a doctor does it take to get an answer? Everyday acute issues like strep throat, UTIs and ankle sprains, one visit, sometimes two if you need tests, okay, new but common, chronic conditions like high blood pressure, type two diabetes, thyroid troubles, takes one to two visits tough to sort out problems that need a specialist, like an autoimmune issue or a migraine, for example, can take between three and five encounters with a doctor to come to some sort of an answer. Rare Diseases seven different physicians over a five year average.

Brandon 1:10:43
Okay, yeah, yeah, that's what. That's a long time. Yeah, that's a long time. And no one should have to wait that long.

Scott Benner 1:10:49
You're living your life while that's happening, right? That's my point. My point is that the quicker you can get to it, the quicker you can hopefully get back to your life, or get an answer, or, you know, whatever ends whatever's gonna happen next. And this is not because doctors are bad people. This is just again. This is the limits of humans like and the system and insurance and healthcare in general and all that stuff. I'm gonna ask you one last question. I'll let you go. All right, sounds good. You seem like a really decent guy. Thank you. And the way the system is set No, you're welcome. And the way the system's set up is you're basically working for a bank that sells band aids. How do you reconcile that the healthcare system is not perfect? And I think probably everybody listening recognizes that even the medical professionals, right? We realize it's not a perfect system, and the only real way that we can try to change it is by trying to get ahead of things, like the upstream approach, or has a lot of different names. So trying to get ahead of things and trying to shift our healthcare system instead of treating symptoms, you know, finding the root cause of a problem and treating that ahead of time. And that's kind of a goal that I have as well. It's just trying to, like, help people before it becomes an issue, so that they can live their lives to the best of their ability. Brand, you did not answer my question. Oh, I'm so sorry. Don't be sorry. What I'm saying is, that hospitals are, generally speaking, owned by major conglomerates. They you know, if you look at, if you look at most big businesses, they don't the thing they make their money with is not the thing they are. They usually are lending money, or they have a lot of money, and they and they make that money by selling health care, and but you're the person who's like, I'm trying to help people like that and not that, maybe we're not all in that situation. I mean, honestly, I think if you stop and think about it, we're probably all in that situation to one degree or another. When you are such a like heart first person like, what do you think is going to be your first feeling when you realize you have to order a test that you think isn't necessary, because the diagnosis allows it, and we're allowed to bill for it, so we're going to do it. Yeah,

Brandon 1:13:06
it's going to suck. Like, I know I'm going to have to probably do things like that that I'm not wanting to do, per se, or that is not necessary. I guess at the end of the day, I'm just living my life. You know, I got to earn my paycheck, and I also got to take care of my patients, and whether or not I'm ordering, you know, an extra test or whatever else, I'm still trying my best to help them in any way that I can. And so maybe it's not ideal, not maybe it isn't ideal to be, you know, working for the system. That's not really working for us, but I'm just going to try my best to do what I can

Scott Benner 1:13:47
good answer, and I think it's a very reasonable answer too. I also think you might turn into one of those guys who like slowly closes his eyes and nods his head no while he's saying something, once in a while you need a test from don't do it. Say no and I don't think there's anybody not in that situation, right? Like, if you're working at the Apple Store, you know, 17 rows down the line from you as a kid in a mine, digging up minerals for batteries somewhere. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's everybody's gonna get caught in that to some degree or another. But it just, it's very in your face, because people are so aware that they feel like they're being ripped off when they're involved in their healthcare. You're a good dude, and I really appreciate this conversation, and I think from all of us, we're super happy you're gonna be out there trying to help people with diabetes. So thank you very much.

Brandon 1:14:36
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the talk. I had a great time. I'm definitely a lot more comfortable than I was at

Scott Benner 1:14:41
the beginning. All right, man, hold on a second. A huge thanks to my longest sponsor, Omnipod. Check out the Omnipod five now with my link, omnipod.com/g Box, you may be eligible for a free starter kit, a free Omnipod five starter kit at my link, go check it out. Omnipod.com/juicebox Terms and Conditions apply. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox Are you tired of getting a rash from your CGM adhesive. Give the ever since 365 a try, ever since cgm.com/juicebox beautiful silicon that they use it changes every day. Keeps it fresh. Not only that, you only have to change the sensor once a year. So I mean, that's better. A huge thanks to us, med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox podcast. Don't forget us, med.com/juicebox This is where we get our diabetes supplies from. You can as well, use the link or call 888-721-1514, use the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us met. Hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox podcast. You

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