#617 Glucommander

Katie has type 1 diabetes and she is a new mom.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 617 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show features Katie. Katie is a young mother who has type one diabetes. And we will talk about all things type one diabetes and babies. Babies from a parenting perspective, type one diabetes from a person's perspective. My thoughts from my perspective, you'll listen from your perspective. And we'll all form new perspectives. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. I need you to go to the T one D exchange and fill out their survey. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. You have to be a US resident who has type one diabetes, or a US resident who is the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes. If you are those things, your answers to your completely private questions that are HIPAA compliant. We'll help people living with type one, and they'll benefit the show T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast is also sponsored but I just got shot out of all goes. Hold on. Sorry about that. I mean, lighten that up a little bit. The podcast is also sponsored today. By the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, learn more and get started at contour next one.com forward slash juice box. There are links in the show notes. And Luke, look at link what was I saying and links to Juicebox Podcast? Podcast? What is going on? There are links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com. If you can't remember contour next one.com forward slash juice box and G vo glucagon.com forward slash juice

Katie 2:24
box here right now he's like queueing a little bit.

Scott Benner 2:28
I'm gonna record right now. I don't want to miss it. Okay, being recorded. All right. So you are allowing a nine week old baby?

Katie 2:36
Yes, I am. So it has been quite the nine weeks for sure.

Scott Benner 2:42
Really? Well, we'll talk about it, I guess. Yes. We'll just let everybody know that we're hoping the baby's gonna fall asleep and the baby might not fall asleep. And we'll see.

Katie 2:51
Yes, I've been doing my best but you know, babies are unpredictable is what I'm learning.

Scott Benner 2:55
Yeah. You're figuring that out? Are you? Yeah, you

Katie 2:58
know, cuz like when I scheduled this with you, I was still I don't know if I was in my third trimester yet. So I was like, oh, yeah, by then all should be fine. Like, we can do a podcast recording, I was very ignorant to you know, what it takes to take care of a baby. first child,

Scott Benner 3:13
here's when you'll be fine. There'll be a split second before your death, where you'll feel calm. They say.

Katie 3:21
Like, I made it this far, they're still alive.

Scott Benner 3:23
I mean, like, even if it's like 6575 80 years from now, and you're old and weathered. And you're like, Oh, this is it. I'm slipping away. You're still gonna be worried about something or somebody right up until the very moment you go. Oh, wait. Yeah, making a baby is the short way to be worried for the rest of your life. That's for sure.

Katie 3:44
I know. It was funny. Have you seen that movie? The quiet plays? I have? Yeah, it's like all I had watched the first one. Whenever it came out. My husband, I just watched the second one. And I was like, This is not a movie for new parents. All it is is about like the parental fears you have of like, you know, taking care of your children. And I was just like, Man, I also know, I know what it feels like. constantly worried.

Scott Benner 4:09
But they call it dumpster fire. So and it's it's just the magnification of it is something you're not prepared for. Really? Yeah, it's because you've been worried about other things before in your life.

Katie 4:21
Exactly. And you know, gonna start daycares. That's a whole new thing to start worrying about. And then I'm sure it just gets harder. Not easier.

Scott Benner 4:30
Yeah. I mean, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade. But I haven't felt like it easier yet. And my kids are 21 in 17. Yeah.

Katie 4:39
I mean, my parents tell me that about myself or like, we're still worried about you. I'm like, Well, now you should be worried about my child.

Scott Benner 4:46
Because there aren't laws to protect this baby from me and I don't know what I'm doing.

Katie 4:50
I know they, you know, just talk us out of the hospital. They didn't ensure I was a fit parent or anything.

Scott Benner 4:55
It's apparently up to you. Well tell ya tell everyone your name. Tambien get started. Although we're pretty started

Katie 5:03
My name is Katie, and I am a type one diabetic, diagnosed as an adult.

Scott Benner 5:08
How old were you when you were diagnosed? 27

Katie 5:11
And so I had the classic mis diagnosis of type two diabetes. It was very strange. I was showing no symptoms. I actually just went into my yearly physical and the bloodwork and everything. And then like a week later, she was like, your blood sugar's 400 diagnosis site to diabetes. This is all in the portal, by the way, like not like a phone call to like break the news. I was like, What do you think? I was like, This is a lie. I was like, I didn't know anything about blood sugar. I was like, 400 I was like, so I called him I was like, listen, I know, I was supposed to be fasting, but I had like three donuts before. Then I was like, so I think that's why my blood sugar is 400. And like, the poor nurse is like, Oh, honey, like, donuts shouldn't put you at 400 If you don't have diabetes,

Scott Benner 5:55
Oh, honey, three donuts? That's it. Yeah, indication of a different problem, you

Katie 6:00
know, exactly. So like, then I saw I had type two diabetes, I came in again, for like the agency, the agency was 9.1. I'm still like, no symptoms really, like if anything, I had been like, slightly gaining weight, wasn't overly thirsty wasn't going to the bathroom a lot. So it was still just very strange. But you know, the ANC don't lie. So I was like, Okay, I guess I'm type two. And when I'm like super Larco, low carb diet, you know, I was doing finger pricks and no insulin. But then thankfully, my mom was like, convinced me like, you need to get into an endocrinologist. You know, just to see if this could be type one. And I was like, and still at the time, I didn't know much about diabetes. So I was like, no type one is where you get when you're a kid, and I would have known I had this. Like, you know, she persisted in selecting, I'll make an appointment. But ironically, like it was hard to get into the endocrinologist because they were like, oh, like, Are you having trouble, like controlling your diabetes? And I was like, Well, no, actually, now I haven't like really like good on this low carb diet. And it's because I was like honeymooning. And so like, my numbers were looking great. And they're like, well, we don't really like to see patients until like, you've been working with your primary for a while and like, things just aren't going well.

Scott Benner 7:21
Know, the, you're making me think of two things. Okay, first thing, I love that your mom was right. And now you're, you're holding a baby. And one day that baby's gonna look at you and be like, No, I think you're wrong. Lady. You don't know what you're talking about? Yes, that's fascinating. That's the circle of life, in case anybody's wondering. And the second thing is I started thinking, you know, how they say, hear people say constantly teachers are underpaid. We it's an important job, and we should pay teachers more. That's an interesting statement. Because they don't mean we should pay bad teachers more they mean, we should offer more money to be teachers. So we get really, really qualified people to be here. I was just thinking, maybe doctors offices should more value. The the knowledge of the person answering the phone. Yes. And and not not not to say that the people doing the job right now couldn't be coached up and taught. But But maybe, maybe I you know, I listen, I'm the person that makes phone calls for everybody in my house. And I talked to I speak to doctors. And if you want to know the difference between me calling, Dr. BENITO who was on ended the thyroid episode with me and speaking to her. And I experienced I had just last week just trying to set up an MRI for my son. I was speaking to a person at the orthod At the Ortho. That I don't know, understood what I was saying. And when I asked a simple yes or no question, I don't want to add anybody like horribly, I asked a simple yes or no question. I said, Is it possible that your pre certification department, which by the way, my insurance doesn't need a pre certification, but we'll get that let's let that go. My question was, Is it possible that your pre certification department has not yet reached out to my insurance company? That was the only question is it possible that they haven't reached out yet? And I am not lying to you 35 words into her third sentence? She had not come close to answering that question. And she was trying so hard to use big words. And so like she knew what she was talking about. And all of this effort was going into. It felt like her trying to make me believe

Katie 9:33
that she was talking

Scott Benner 9:33
about yes, yes, yes. Yes, Katie. Yes. Okay. And so I'm lucky for her and lucky for me in the world that I've matured, because 30 years ago, I would have been like you're not answering my question, and I would just send it again. But instead I said something very polite. I was like, oh, you know, I think I wasn't very clear with what I was asking. I just want to know, is it possible, blah, blah, blah. And I swear to you, she launched back into that diatribe again. It's like, oh my god, imagine if I were to get mad at her, or feel frustrated. Or maybe I'm not a great communicator. And now we have two bad communicators talking to each other. How often does that happen to people?

Katie 10:13
Oh, I'm sure every day, which is why they, you know, try to use big words make it sound like they're the assertive one knowing what they're talking about, you know? Yeah. For certain sure they deal with all sorts of people.

Scott Benner 10:24
I'm telling you forget to not forget teachers, but we should pay admin more money at doctors offices. Yes,

Katie 10:30
I agree. And I'm sure that like, she, like they always have a full schedule. There's no office, I'm sure. Like, they're told, like, only make appointments for like, you know, certain type of deals and whatnot. But I even had a referral from my primary cuz I went back to my primary, I was like, hey, like, I just want to get more I had to phrase it into a way. I was like, I just want to educate myself more on this, like, can I go talk to an endo? Like, instead of just saying like, Hey, here's my, you know, slip the Gaussian, endo to get this taken care of, like, I really had to like, yeah, sweet talk my way into it. And then I had to convince a woman on the phone. I was like, you know, I just, let's just make an appointment. Let's just see, you know, it was like, it should have been that hard. And all of course, I'm doing this so I can tell my mom, I made an appointment. But like, I could have easily been like, oh, oh, you just need to see if I are struggling with this for a while and then call back in a year. Or when I'm in DK. You know,

Scott Benner 11:21
I want you to remember that feeling. The first time that you're holding is like you do not know what you're talking about. You're lucky to be standing up. I've been watching you since I was a baby. And I don't even know how you're not dead lady. You can't make one good decision. I have the whole world figured out already. Oh, I love that. You made that appointment to shut your mom up. And she was

Katie 11:41
right. Yep. Oh, yeah. She was definitely right. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 11:45
How you felt you ever if you ever told her this? Oh, yeah.

Katie 11:48
She knows. And like, she was like, really? The lead to that. Like, you know, she was right in that because like, the type two just didn't make sense. Like, I didn't have the characteristics of it. And you know, but then of course, she went straight into worry mode again, because you know, this,

Scott Benner 12:06
really to worry about now. Yeah.

Katie 12:08
I was hoping for type two because I was like, type two seems easy to manage with the diet and everything. I was like this type one is, you know, yeah. Gonna be a lot more learning curve.

Scott Benner 12:17
Isn't it interesting when your expectations start dwindling? What you're what you're willing to reach for? Yeah.

Katie 12:25
okay with being sick, but not you know, that sick or something?

Scott Benner 12:28
I went from living a perfectly normal life for 27 years to wishing for type two diabetes. Wow. Yeah, that's really it's very interesting. How your how your brain starts bargaining with Yes, with whatever, all of a sudden. So how long ago was that? How old are you now?

Katie 12:43
I'm 29. Now, so? Yeah. Well, you married, I am married. And actually, I was engaged to my husband. We've been together for five years. But so he's been through all of this with me. And we got married last August. So we're coming up, actually in a month will be our one year anniversary. Huh? Good for you. When you're diagnosed, you have a three month old baby. If you can do that math.

Scott Benner 13:09
I can do all the math. Don't worry. 30 You just found out you have type one. You've been married very recently. And you don't listen to your mom. I understand. Don't you worry. I'm on top of this conversation. I'm bright eyed and bushy tailed today, Katie, I'm good. So does it huh. When you learn that you have diabetes? Do you ever have the conscious thought? I wonder if this guy's gonna stay with me?

Katie 13:36
Yes, actually, I mean, it's kind of sad, but like his mom has passed away, and she was really sick. And he took care of her through her cancer treatments. And that actually all happened pretty much before we got together. So I got to meet her one time, but like, I didn't know her. Um, and so of course, I had this feeling of like, he had to take care of his mom. I was like, I don't want to feel like he has this feeling he's gonna have to take care of me. And so, you know, that's something we had to like work through. And we've been in a couple of therapies for a few years now. And, you know, something that we addressed and like, I turned that wasn't a concern if it was just myself feeling like, I didn't want to be a burden.

Scott Benner 14:24
Wow, that's interesting. So it wasn't him. You answered yes to the question, but it wasn't him. It was you. It was me. Yeah. So you thought he already went through an illness? You didn't? Did you think he wouldn't want to do another one? Or did you think that

Katie 14:37
I just I think I was more like concerned for him and his mental state of like he already had to go through like an illness where he was a primary caregiver. And then like, so of course his self got put on the back burner. I was like, I don't want him always feeling like he's on the backburner and taking care of somebody else. health purposes, but of course, like that's why we have this commercial and communicate to make sure that like, his needs are being met too. And then we realize like, yes, you know, like right now like, I take care of my diabetes like he's very aware, but it's not like a situation where like, he's like, Wait on Me Hannah butt over, or anything, you know?

Scott Benner 15:13
No, I understand I and so your your knee jerk reaction, although very understandable ended up not really being a concern.

Katie 15:20
Correct? Yeah, no, he's been great with it. Like, he doesn't understand like, you know how much insulin I need for certain meals or anything, but like, he was very accommodating to like, whatever I'm asking for. And then like, he follows me on Dexcom follow. And just yesterday, I had a confession when he called me he's like, you're in the 40s. Wake up. I was like, it's not real. It's

Scott Benner 15:40
fine. Has he been more attentive to it since the baby's warm?

Katie 15:47
I think so a little bit, essentially, it's just, you know, me and the baby at home. He was like, last last thing I need is like, you know, I answer your phone. When I see this ad. I was like, I know,

Scott Benner 15:57
when my son was born, I realized in a flash, that my wife was just a girl, I met her, I was just the guy she met. And that baby was hers. And I felt like that baby was mine. And I was like, we can't let this girl mess this up. And I bet you she was thinking, I can't let this dumb kid I've met mess. Right? All of a sudden, you become very aware of where your attachments are 100% and where they are 90%. And it's a very, very interesting to watch it happen as you build a family. And, and, and I was just thinking he was probably like, Oh, I love Katy. But I don't want her to like pass out and roll over on that kid.

Katie 16:42
Well, he's also saying like, I can't do this on my own, cuz he's told me that. He was like, oh, you should take care of yourself. Because like, you know, he spent an afternoon with him by himself. He's like, I can't do this by myself.

Scott Benner 16:54
I thought that was implied.

Katie 16:57
Yeah, that's Yeah. And I'm his like milk machine. So like, I gotta keep producing that way.

Scott Benner 17:03
If you don't keep this train rolling, he's gonna go broke. Just buying baby formula. Exactly. didn't make sense. From what I hear is very expensive actually. diapers to like, Oh my God. Yes. I remember when we didn't have to buy diapers anymore. And I felt like we got a raise. I bet we should buy something. We have all this extra money now. Have you ever heard Jenny talk about getting low in a store? And while she's holding her baby?

Katie 17:27
Yeah, she like sat down in a dressing room or something and her husband

Scott Benner 17:31
right on the floor in a in a place and started like doing tabs? Because yes, like I'm gonna go down and she just so she's like she got ahead of it.

Katie 17:40
That's how I experienced like that in a store with him. I was pushing the stroller and I was just like, uh, like, reach into the diaper bag and grab my jelly beans.

Scott Benner 17:48
Jelly Beans. Oh, nice. Yeah, doughnuts aren't very portable.

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there is nothing written down in front of me. I was off my head

Katie 22:00
me over a year to have a doughnut again. You know, it's a little scary.

Scott Benner 22:03
Oh, I bet you I bet you you were like oh my gosh, look what I did with these doughnuts. Did you know and you have that thought?

Katie 22:11
Yeah. Well, I feel like it was more like just a joke of like, you know, doughnuts give me diabetes. Like I understand that's not the case. But you know, like, after looking at my since I was such a honeymoon phase, like in doing my own readings, like my morning numbers were good. If I hadn't gone in with my fasci Number, it might not have been over 100. So it was actually a good thing that you know, I sparked those. Maybe I made

Scott Benner 22:33
somebody pay attention. i Hey, those donuts may have saved your life. Katie, exactly.

Katie 22:38
We'll go with that.

Scott Benner 22:40
I have to tell you as you get older, and your body tolerates food less than less, which I know is probably hard to like wrap your head around when you're 30. But you know, there'll be a day where you eat pizza. And you're going to get like multiple messages from your body that says, Please don't do that again.

Katie 22:55
I hope not the pizza.

Scott Benner 22:58
That's how I think of sweets now, like if my body would have had the reactions to food, that's not good for me. When I was younger, I'd be completely different person now because now like the idea of having something super sweet like that, like it was Arden's birthday last week, and we got our companies, and they're not just cupcakes, they're like cupcakes from a place where I have to pay for them. You think? I don't think cupcakes should cost this much money. Yeah, like $3 a cupcake was happening. Exactly. Yeah. And there's, you know, there's icing on top of it. It's piled and thick. And though it's not just cake, it's got cookies, and like, you know, it's just a bomb of sugar. And, you know, her friends are over one night and they pull out these cupcakes. And I'm like, Well, I'm going to eat a cupcake because it's Arden's birthday, and I'm going to eat this cupcake. But as I was eating it, I thought, No, I don't particularly want this. So and I just know that if I would have felt that way about sugar when I was younger, I don't know how much different my life would be. or not, but I'm just saying, I can't get it anymore. You know, a little bit of red sauce, you know, like who I should do that earlier in the day. You know, you start having thoughts like that. It's not fun, okay. But the the highlight of it is, is that while that's happening to me, my children that I've put my heart and soul in for my whole life are just sitting around me, supporting me and thanking me for being there.

Katie 24:20
Right yeah. Even tell me that some days.

Scott Benner 24:25
They're just gonna give you crap constantly and test every fence. They're like the Raptors net Jurassic Park film, they just run around touching the fence touching the fence to like and find out how to get through it. And that's the good kids, the bad kids. Literally the bigger house.

Katie 24:38
I know I am. I'm scared. Do you how

Scott Benner 24:41
how were you as a young person? Were you like a reasonable person?

Katie 24:45
I was a teenage girl which I'm sure you know what that's like and it's just you know, the backtalk like I was a good kid as far as like, I didn't like kicked out of school or you have the cops cold in the house or anything but you know, like I would talk back to my parents and just refuse to do anything like That's sad. So I was actually kind of really unfun. Like, I found out we were having a boy. So I was like, I know nothing about boys, like, I'm sure it's still gonna be extremely hard. But I was like, I know how hard I was as a girl. So at least for this first one, I might not have to relive that.

Scott Benner 25:14
Generally speaking, the hard areas just line up differently across the calendar is all so

Katie 25:19
okay. So you balance it out with your boy and girl like different times.

Scott Benner 25:23
They're constantly a problem instead of a problem at the same time. Like little boys, you could get one of those really energetic ones. And they're there or something because they just go Go, go, go go. And they're like, little, like, monsters that punch things. Like if that happens. I mean, I don't know what you're gonna do.

Katie 25:42
But yeah, I know. I have my some friends that their boys are like that. And it just, they Yeah, they run circles in the house just trying to tie themselves out.

Scott Benner 25:51
I think you just save up a little money. You buy something with a fence outside of it, and you just release them like they're federal, basically, you keep them clean, and don't let them speak. And then the law can't say anything to you. And it's fine. So I got that from parenting magazine, October 1980. Well, okay, so let's talk a little bit like you, you've got diabetes. Had you thought about you weren't married yet? So you probably weren't thinking about babies yet?

Katie 26:18
Well, yeah, we were already engaged and had planned our elopement. This is time like Pete COVID. So like, we and I had always wanted to do a little bit anyways, because the idea of like saying my vows in front of 100 plus people just didn't sound like relaxing and like an experience I would like be fully present. So like, I was like, perfect excuses. Like, no, I can elope and so we went out to Colorado and had a gorgeous elopement. But we had been talking about like, kids, and of course, like, now I'm having thoughts of, well, I think I can manage my pregnancy through this. But then it's a fear of like, well, what are the chances that my kid will have type one diabetes? You know, for me, this was a complete shock. No one in my family that I know has it. But my dad was also adopted. So there's like, half the family history that were missing there. And so like, I just did some research on like, what are the chances? And they just kind of had to come to like, understanding and like, comfort with myself of like, okay, like, it could happen, but like, do I want to have a kid more than the fear of Him one day having type one diabetes, right?

Scott Benner 27:29
I gotcha. So how much of that? Did it play in at all? Like, was there ever a moment where you're like, I'm not gonna have a baby? Because I don't want that? Or did you not entertain that thought for long? Oh,

Katie 27:43
yeah. I mean, like, it took like, a couple of months to like, just think about, sorry, he is hearing I might have not wanted a baby. And

Scott Benner 27:54
I knew it. I knew. It was like, it was too good to be true. He's already taking notes about how to get on your knees. Yeah.

Katie 28:03
Yeah. So if I had, honestly, I found your podcast really early on, until like, I had already been listening to like episodes with you and Jenny. And then like, the other series you had done with a woman with type one in her pregnancy. So I had, like, I'm the type of person to that I just dive into research to like, that's how I comfort myself when I'm like, questioning something or just like, need to understand it more. So I just kind of dove in and like, learned a lot. And then I wouldn't say it was too long. I mean, we got pregnant right away after our wedding.

Scott Benner 28:38
Well, I I feel like you said something earlier, you said if you were in a big, like wedding, now isn't something you feel like you'd want to be there for and be fully present. And I felt like thing was you'd need to be a tiny bit and he braided in one way or another to get through that. Oh, for sure. That's what you're saying. Okay, I want to make sure. So, so hearing Samantha's story about her pregnancy and and listening to Jenny, made you feel confident that you could could get it done?

Katie 29:07
Yes. And I had already gotten my a one C down to in the fives really quickly. And that was with like MDI, and we're still honeymoon. So that help, but um, yeah, I was confident in my ability to manage dependencies, and my insulin needs. Because that was my like, I was in control of that. The fear was the things I was gonna be not in control of, like my son's health one day. So it wasn't ever really concerned. Like, I wonder if I can manage my type one diabetes and pregnancy. Now that I have here, I am concerned about any future pregnancies I was like, it's gonna be a lot harder than that. First one was like, I didn't have you know, a kid to take care of and I could like Pre-Bolus the exact time I needed and now it's like, I don't know what I'm going to eat.

Scott Benner 30:00
You don't know what you're gonna do anything. Oh,

Katie 30:02
it's usually noon before I can brush my teeth. Somebody who's

Scott Benner 30:05
showed more concern about having a baby you or your husband

Katie 30:11
with concerns of health Yeah, I think my I did he he was just kind of like if it happens, we'll deal with it boy. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Benner 30:20
plan anything that's that's what I expected to say. I was just I was wondering so how did you find it? Like once you first of all were you just don't like a mad tear after you got married? Like we like did you on purpose make the baby? Let's say it in front of him. Was he? Was he an accident? A happy accident? How do you attribute his his? Well, I

Katie 30:41
was no longer on birth control. So we weren't stopping it. Gotcha. But also, I didn't know like, how fast it would happen because I have friends who have been you know, trying for a while to conceive. And so just like, let's not like look at calendar dates to make sure that we're you know, doing it the right time. But right. Currently we did.

Scott Benner 31:01
You Well, when you're first you're going to hit the time at some point. So Exactly. Yeah. No, I hear you so Okay, so it happens. Yay, raise. Yay. How about your mom? Was your mom like? No? Worries. She Yeah, did she? Yeah. You know,

Katie 31:15
honestly, she she was more concerned from my, my own health. And I think that yeah, she was What's that movie that like I still haven't watched it with a woman like a type one and dies after pregnancy? Yeah, what is? Yeah, yeah. So I think she's like, seen that movie and like, was like instantly afraid. Or?

Scott Benner 31:36
Robert died in the movie once? Oh, yeah.

Katie 31:39
Exactly. And she's still like, this is so new. It's not like she had been dealing with this with me. Because I I mean, I'm getting pregnant, like, basically six months after the official type one diagnosis. So she's still trying to, like, you know, she's not around me. We live four hours apart. So she has not really seen like how well I'm doing with it. I think she was just concerned.

Scott Benner 32:00
How was your doctor? When you were like, how do you when you go to the OB and you're like, Hey, I'm pregnant. And I just got type one diabetes. It's my year getting all kinds of like, did they say

Katie 32:10
yeah, so unfortunately, I Well, I mean, it was fortunate, the very beginning, I had the best OB GYN she was also type one. And I was like, this is matching to heaven. Like she understands like what I'm going through. And then second trimester, she moved to Texas, and I'm not from Texas. So now, I was so upset. I was like, no, like, No, I have to start over with some videos. I understand. I mean, ended up being fine. But yeah, I had actually gotten to her, um, before getting pregnant, just to kind of get some consultation on like, what should I expect with type one and pregnancy? Like, since I'm so new to this, do you think that if I had a pregnancy now it'd be easier versus if I waited a couple years and she was basically like, you know, it doesn't really matter if you wait or have one now like, it's, you're gonna have the same challenges regardless. So she was really good in the beginning, and talk to my Endo. About what my goal should be. So I definitely prepared I just didn't know I was preparing for something that was gonna happen in next couple months. I thought I was gonna be for something next, like six plus months.

Scott Benner 33:13
Yeah, wow, geez. Oh, wait, okay. Okay. So you're pregnant. There's no, there's no going backwards? No. What's, what's the first does your insulin. I mean, you do you? Where's my question? Do you feel like you were honeymooning still? Yes.

Katie 33:30
Yes. I was so crazy. Like, I wonder like now, like, if I'm gone back to honeymooning or it's just like the crazy like hormone changes after pregnancy. But so pre pregnancy. I was like to see about only like three units a day. And then like, I basically had to like beg them to give me mealtime insulin because they're like, well, your numbers are so good. I was like, Yeah, because I'm eating low carb. Like I'm basically on a keto diet. And I don't want to spike because at this point, I've, you know, done my own research. I know how bad that can be for my health long term to have constant highs. So it's like until you give me mealtime insulin, I'm not gonna experiment with food. And then also, I wanted to have a CGM and insurance wouldn't pay for it until I'm on at least three injections a day. So I was like, Well, if you write me the script for mealtime insulin, then I can also get my CGM. And so you know, look at my way into that one.

Scott Benner 34:29
Excellent. So do you see you think maybe if you were to have another baby, it would be a completely different experience maybe? I

Katie 34:37
think so. I think what I ended up going on on a pod by the second trimester just because my insulin needs that like I at the end of my pregnancy. I was on sometimes 200 units a day, like I was going through a full pod. It got to the point where I was actually giving myself manual injections for bigger meals. So that way just didn't have the And tripod like every 24 hours. It was a lie I am and now No, I'm not pregnant. Like there's some days where I

Scott Benner 35:08
don't even hit 10 units a day. Yeah, the breastfeeding has an impact on that.

Katie 35:11
Yes, definitely. I did listen to that episode. I really appreciated that postpartum protip series. Well, I would say it was, like very unpredictable. And now it's just kind of leveled out, which is good, right?

Scott Benner 35:24
I would say thank you. But Jenny was like, We have no, yes. She told me and I was like, Okay, done. Don't worry about I've never argued other ones like, yeah, no, thank you to Jenny for sure. Yeah, thanks, Jenny. Cuz I wouldn't like there's some episodes where I'm like, Hey, Jenny, you should talk now. I say things that pop into my head as she's speaking. But that's excellent. Well, I'm glad it was helpful, too. So first trimester and did ever get really did it go backwards? Because you're saying you made like big, you had to make some big bonuses with a needle to hold on to the the insulin that was in your pump? And did it at the end? Does it trail away again? Or no?

Katie 36:01
No, I mean, the resistance was there throughout all of third trimester, I would say the second trimester, I would go like back and forth, you know, like Daniel mentioned, and I did read her book, the timeline and pregnancy, which is really helpful, because it does talk about how every week, like your body changes, your, you know, embryo, like is changing. And, you know, it gets into a fetus and all those hormones. And so it was like, you nail it by Friday. And by Monday, it's like a whole new ballgame. Like it was constantly changing. But sometimes I would not need as much insulin for meals. So it's just a constant guessing game. And then hope you get it right, which most where I normally did. And then of course, the fighting with my Endo, because she was like, you're having too many loads. I'm like, Okay, but what was she called? So I mean, I wouldn't drop down to like 55. But I would also catch it before, like, I would catch at 60. So it goes down to 55. And then like a few minutes later is back up. And I try to explain to her like, because of my CGM because of the alerts, like, I know this is happening, and I much rather have this low, then fight with the high that's not going to come down, especially with business systems. And, you know, my lowest latency throughout pregnancy was 4.9. And I was so proud of myself. And of course, I just get like this look at disapproval from her. She's like, so many lows and like, it's just like, you want to be like happy and you want somebody to like be like, good job. And then they just say like, Oh, that's too good.

Scott Benner 37:37
So I started off by saying we should, we should get the entire staff up to the level of the doctors, but we should get the entire staff up to the level of somebody who wouldn't make you feel bad for getting a 4.9 a one C while you're pregnant. It's

Katie 37:50
good for you. Yes. And no, there's liability isn't like she probably doesn't want me to be like, she probably knows like, oh, shit, what football she doesn't really know me like, Max in the past few years. Like how much time she spent with me maybe 45 minutes. There are all of my appointments because they barely last five to 10 minutes. So she doesn't know if I'm somebody who's like, Oh, I'm going to push it even farther because of how well I'm doing it. So she's, you know, trying to err with caution. But yeah, I think one of the things that was like, kind of rewarding. And then also like disappointing, same time was in the hospital, which we can talk about the whole labor and delivery thing, too. I had not her on staff as yendo. But somebody from our office, and the other adult came to talk to me. And she was like, Yeah, Dr. Smith, she says you're a rock star patient. And I was like, well, she never told me that. Like, that would have been nice encouragement.

Scott Benner 38:45
All I heard was, well, how much of that do you think is that's what you heard? I not just that turned around for a second. If she thought you were a great patient, but you feel like all she did was tell you what you were doing wrong. Is that? Is there some blame on both sides?

Katie 39:01
Maybe but I mean, honestly, I think like I said, I barely spent any time with her in the appointment. So like there wasn't a lot of like pep talk, like you're doing great, keep it up. And then I would send in my blood sugar weekly for her nurse, and team to like analyze. And that was a frustrating part too, because then they would come back with suggestions on like, how to correct my ratios and whatnot. I'm like, but all you did was look at my graph. Like there was no questions about why this high happened, what I was doing beforehand, how long did I Pre-Bolus Or they look at the lows and like, well, you're lower on this time I'm like, okay, that's because I Pre-Bolus too long. And then but you see it goes immediately right back up and then starts to go high because of my meal. And so there's just so much elements missing that like I personally do, based on like, you know, Jenny's book and like the podcasts and just like what I just have learned Throughout this whole journey, but I was like, You're not really telling me anything like, yes, you're talking, checking off that you're looking at my numbers weekly. But if I would have gone based on your suggestions solely alone, I would not have achieved they went to that I did.

Scott Benner 40:13
Yeah, I understand. Is it? Here's my question, is it harder to be a type one while you're pregnant? Or to be a type one while you have a newborn?

Katie 40:28
Harder in different ways, because while pregnant, it's definitely so much more focused on achieving those really great blood sugars. Now, it's like, okay, well, if I'm high for a couple hours, like, yeah, it's not great, but like, you know, only harming myself right now, I know, it won't be like this forever, once I get back into a pattern in a routine. And then while pregnant, like I mentioned, like, you just change constantly. So like, you think, okay, I figured out my ratios, I know how many units I need for this meal. And then next week, you have to double the money to need. And that part is just constant like rework. But being type one with a baby. I'm not as focused on myself. And I think that is, in general for all new moms, not just type one lunch, of course. And so it is harder to be as regimented as I was. Yeah. But I'll get back there.

Scott Benner 41:22
Good. Yeah, I would think that you just don't want, like you said, until you get back into rhythm. You just want to make sure that the rhythm you get into isn't Wait, hold on. Yeah. So we're halfway through the episode. Is this where you told me the baby's name is Scott?

Katie 41:39
No potential middle name, but it didn't work out.

Scott Benner 41:43
Don't worry. I'll live.

Katie 41:45
No, his name is Miles. That's a good name. Yes. Thank you.

Scott Benner 41:51
And the baby noises he's making are so cute. They are pretty cute. There are many men whose wives listen to this show. We're gonna get lucky tonight because of this.

Katie 42:03
Yeah, I know. It's like, if forget, like how cute they can be when like, it's the middle of night and they're screaming and you get peed on and everything. And then I'll look back on my phone of like the 1000s of photos I already have of him. Like you are adorable.

Scott Benner 42:17
keep flicking so you don't remember that you smell like pee. That's a good idea. I watched cola throw up in Kelly's mouth once? Oh, gosh.

Katie 42:29
I know it's gonna happen. Yeah. Thankfully, knock on wood. He hasn't been too much of the spit up, baby. But no changes. didn't stop

Scott Benner 42:37
him from you know, doesn't stop them from saying this stuff that uh, that you're like, Oh, I can't believe you would say that. I've dedicated my entire life to keeping you happy. It's a fool's errand making a baby. But congratulations. I'm just teasing. You're fine. It'll be it'll

Katie 42:53
be I can't turn back now. Be a little complicated.

Scott Benner 42:58
back now. My gosh, if you ever hear teachers say that, like, you know that they know when they have a certain number of teachers, just like one of the kids is like a little psychopath. Like just just by sheer numbers. You know, you're just it's funny we talked about earlier about your brain, like negotiating with like, Oh, I'll take type two, please. You know, right. Wait a wait, oh, five years from now. We're just like, I hope I don't have the weird kid. I hope I don't have the weird kid.

Katie 43:24
That we had that moment. Right away in the middle of room. We're like, oh, man, we ended up with an ugly one. You know, they come out like real squirmy looking and like, we're just like, Oh, I just hope he's cute. And like, everyone always says your baby's so cute. But no one's gonna say you have an ugly baby. And we were just afraid that we would have a baby only parents who love and turns out he actually was pretty cute.

Scott Benner 43:45
I just tried so hard to hold my laugh. And I wonder if you can if you listen closely, if you'll hear me under my breath, like cracking up. Because their brains that you know, their little heads come out. Yeah, they're not quite the shape. They're gonna be after the little soft part. Except I'm not a doctor. You understand. But they come out a little squish. Because you're huge. And I don't mean to use a technical term here. It's not the size of it.

Katie 44:13
Oh, yeah. And then covering gunk and everything. And

Scott Benner 44:16
oh, yeah. Yeah, it's it's horrible.

Katie 44:21
And I had like a 40 hour labor because I had to be induced being type one. And so I'm so exhausted. It's like almost midnight, and I'm just like looking at him. And I'm like, I feel like I should be crying out of joy. But like I'm just like, looking at him. I'm like, so that's what you look like.

Scott Benner 44:41
All this for that. I'll be done.

Katie 44:45
quickly went away. And that was good.

Scott Benner 44:48
I'm sure you were happy at first. Did you have any postpartum depression?

Katie 44:52
No, not yet. I think I've also I've been taking Zoloft just for my own anxiety. issues prior type one and pregnancy. So I took it throughout my pregnancy as well. And so I think that helps baseline me a little more. I also have heard that like Breastfeeding can kind of taper off postpartum depression. But then once you end up weaning, the hormones change again, and then you can actually be a risk factor again, so she just

Scott Benner 45:23
keep an eye out for it. Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. Zoloft. You said? Yep. Couldn't take it during the pregnancy, though, right? No, I

Katie 45:32
could. It was actually the one antidepressant that I think is, like recommended if you're going to be on one to take during pregnancy. Interesting. Did your dose change during the pregnancy at all? No, I was already on the lowest dose. And if anything, I probably would have gone up if my needs required it, but I just continued the same dose. And they said the only risk factors for him would that he potentially come out a little more chill. And I was like, Well, I'm fine with that. mean, he might not cry as much for the very first couple days.

Scott Benner 46:06
It gives me a break in the beginning. I'm up for sounds right? Exactly. You are really exhausted when it's over 48 hours. So they induced you, and nothing happened. Yes. So

Katie 46:14
um, it was protocol that type one sonko patch 39 weeks. So on week 39 checked into the hospital of still zero centimeters dilated, my body was not prepared to push out a baby. Like if I didn't have type one and or didn't have to be induced, like I'm sure I would have gone past 40 weeks just because of how not ready my body was. And so they do. I can't even remember all the ones but it's like whatever they try to like soften the cervix. And it stays in for 12 hours. So I check in Monday night, get that next morning, nothing had progressed like still not dilated services and soft enough to like okay, we're going to do another one it is so similar 12 hours. Second one, still not going great. And at this time, I had a nurse I'm pretty sure was training because she had another nurse following her around the whole time. And she made it very uncomfortable for me. Just like pain management wise, because she kind of messed up on this like gel that she is. So my I was in a lot of pain already 24 hours and I had already stopped eating because I had to stop once I checked in I before. So then they were like, Okay, now we're going to do this like pill type thing that they put up your cervix to like those are only four hours. So have a couple of rounds of that. And then finally you start Pitocin Tuesday afternoon after checking in Monday night and then have him at 11:44pm.

Scott Benner 47:54
That's an arduous process. And you think if you just would have waited, he would have just popped out on his own probably at some point.

Katie 48:00
Yeah, I think I would have had like the typical like, Oh, my water broke at home. And after the doctor like

Scott Benner 48:05
I'm not done yet. Yes, you don't need this banana yet. It's got that weird, powdery space. So Wow.

Katie 48:13
It's just like, it was nice to have an induction day because like I could prepare like my parents are able to come into town. And instead of just like, oh, I don't know when this is gonna happen. But I definitely was not a fan of the induction process. Right? And then,

Scott Benner 48:27
yeah, how about afterwards? What was it like? What were your blood sugars like immediately after giving birth.

Katie 48:34
So they definitely went back to pre pregnancy like pretty much right away, because in pre pregnancy, I was more like one to 20 carb ratio. And my Basal dropped back significantly where I was like, almost just stopped getting like I was giving the minimum amount at some points on my Omnipod just like have something going in there. That was just constant up and down. And the so then afterwards, like I'm still in the hospital for like two days, throughout the recovery and everything I'm getting like hospital food, and then I'm on like diabetes protocol where they have to, even though I have my Dexcom they have to check my blood sugar once an hour with a finger prick. And they would only do it before meals I never would do after meals. I'm like, so what's this telling me? And like, in the hospital, I knew that they were not going to like the levels I wanted to be at and so I actually let myself ride higher, just like get myself out of there. I was like, I'm just gonna ride like 120 and there are some meals at like, they would come check it right before it wasn't like 15 to 20 minutes before and I'd be at 140 in the nursery like Oh, good job. They got good number like 140 before a meal. You know, like, I don't think that's good, but like there was just some things I've had to grin and bear and just to get out of there.

Scott Benner 49:53
I'm endlessly fascinated that people give people medical direction based on something random. Somebody told them once and she Like 140 Good job. Yes. And then, you know, are people who don't know? And who sit there and think, Oh, 140 Good job. Good. Yeah, that's good. No,

Katie 50:07
did you and this is before meal, she has no idea what I was after that meal,

Scott Benner 50:11
and the food they feed just so good for you. So that's the other thing.

Katie 50:15
It was bad food. And then they gave me the menu each morning. And so I would like, want all the muffins and carb based stuff because I was like, my insulin needs are hardly anything like Let's carve it up, and it will come back and the piece of paper would say like change for dietary needs. I was like, No, are you telling my dietary needs? Put me on like the diabetic like regimen? So Matt,

Scott Benner 50:37
this and my time, I want to eat a muffin now. And you people are killing people smuggling your food in?

Katie 50:44
Oh, it for sure. I had Pad Thai when I yeah, my husband would go out and get food and everything. And so I definitely ate what I wanted to and controlled and then just was tell the nurses like I gave myself this much insulin.

Scott Benner 50:57
Did anyone pay attention to your Dexcom during the birthing process? Or was it something you used?

Katie 51:03
So I was really adamant going in that I wanted to be in charge of my diabetes care. I was like, I'm here, because you guys are in charge. You're getting the baby out of me. But I'm the one that I want to be in charge of my diabetes care, right. And I talked to my OB, my OB was on board you like I agree, she was like, You should be the one managing it. You're the one with it. 24/7. I'm comfortable that however the hospital policy is that you have to be on insulin drip. And I like was so upset by that. I was like, I do not want to have someone else be in control when they don't know what they're doing. They don't Yeah, exactly. And I talked to my endo who this all is part of the same hospital like center. So like, they all know, the same policies and whatnot. And my endo was not very sympathetic. As far as like, she's like that insulin drip will be fine. Like, she was not trying to like, Oh, let me see if I can write something. So that way you can be in control of this. She kept trying to say like, Well, yeah, you're in control of it throughout the day. But you know, this is like a whole new experience. And like you want to be focused on like labor. I was like, whoa, I'm getting an epidural. So I'm not focused too much on the pain. You know, I think I'll be able to manage this.

Scott Benner 52:14
And it's time to they think you're thinking about your diabetes constantly. You know, like, hey, it's just like,

Katie 52:19
I need to check it. Like every like, my plane then was like every five to 10 minutes, just like check to make sure like, what's the Dexcom saying, like, are we going anywhere. So anyways, I get to the hospital, and I made it very known. I was like, I'm going to be in charge of my Care and Keeping my insulin pump and my CGM on, I even signed documentation saying I wouldn't sue them if something goes wrong. Well, apparently, that did not go over well with the hospital. And they even though I find that they were still very adamant that I needed to be placed on an insulin drip, and have my finger stick every hour, which I was like, Fine, stick my finger every hour. Like, I'm not kind of, like that's inconvenient for me. But I'm not going to say you can't do that. But it was insulin drip I was really concerned about right. And then since I had such a rough 24 hours trying to get some dilation going with all those cervix treatments, I was so exhausted, I had no sleep the entire time. And then a credible amount of pain. And my OB comes in, and she was like, hey, they weren't gonna start the epidural until after Pitocin when it starts to get really bad. She's like, I You're exhausted, you're already in all this pain. Let's start the epidural now. While we continue to wait for your cervix to soften. And Pitocin wasn't gonna start until later that day. She was and I was like, okay, and I felt good. She's like, but if you do this for, like, if I do this for you, we're gonna have to get you into insulin drip because they're not happy about wanting to manage it yourself. And so after 24 hours of no sleep, I just like gave in I was like, fine.

Scott Benner 53:52
You're gonna drug me I'm okay with whatever you say, Yeah,

Katie 53:55
I was like, fine. I was like, I'll she was like, you'll still have your Dexcom on to like, and you'll know what your sugars are. And I actually had a really great team of nurses for the actual delivery, not minus a nurse, I mean, all the pain in the beginning. Where she everytime she did a finger stick and we'll plug it into. So it's called a glue come. Glue commander is the system they called it. I'm not sure if this is in other hospitals. But it's the insulin drip that actually has a drip of glucose in it too. So she would once an hour type in what my blood sugar was, and then it would give a reading of what the Basal should be. And so she knew how stressed I was about this giving over that control. So she would always tell me, she's like, it's telling me I should adjust you from point three to point four. And I would look at my Dexcom and I would like that's the exact same adjustment I would make. So I felt comfortable like she would like not necessarily confer with me that was the right thing to do because I think she would have done whatever it said. The fact that she was like allowing me to be part of it, and then it ended up working really well where I was Within 10 points of 100, the entire time I was like, oh, an active labor,

Scott Benner 55:04
you were like, give me the glue commander forever.

Katie 55:07
Yeah, and I think I've heard you mentioned on a podcast before that. The next like, evolution of pumps are probably going to be like a little bit of a blue strip too. Because when you start to go low, instead of needing to, you know, have a juice box, if it just puts in a little glucose in for you, like it can keep you really steady. And that's basically what this machine did. So I hated to admit, in the end that I was like, happy with it and would do it again. Because I put so much time into like, I told myself, I take this

Scott Benner 55:38
home with me. Yeah.

Katie 55:40
But like it was given the same Basal rates that I would have suggested, based on, you know, how I've been managing. So

Scott Benner 55:47
I'd say first out, I actually just looked it up. It is a, it's a medical device. It's a whole system. Really kind of fascinating. Yeah, you should have probably shut up and taking that, like,

Katie 55:59
I know that I could have gone through all that, like not having to stress and

Scott Benner 56:03
say, Look, I want to take care of this myself, in case unless you have the, by the way, the name is just, I, I'm looking at the name of this thing. And the person who named this must have just been in geek heaven when they came up with it. Because it's G Liu. Commander, it's glue. Yeah, Commander. They must have been so pleased with themselves. They're like, Oh, well call the glue command, or it'll be amazing. But now that's I'd never heard of that before. That's pretty amazing. And yeah, there are places working on pumps that are, you know, considered dual chamber that have insulin and glucagon. I think that. I mean, I don't know anything, meaning nobody's told me something that you don't know. But I think the advent of stuff like GE voc, you know, right, the gun that it's liquid stable is a big step towards that. Because I know that years ago, they tried this with the glucagon that was available on the market, and it didn't last and the pumps had degraded too quickly. So now that it won't degrade. Will people start looking into it more? I mean, maybe I still don't understand about the delivery of it if I'm being honest. But it's got to be worth people looking at.

Katie 57:16
Like, yeah, I wonder what they use this machine at the hospital? Yeah. What if it was just like a glucose like, drip? In general? That was hooked up there. But

Scott Benner 57:27
yeah, they that might have just been giving you glucose and insulin. Well, yeah, it plus it. They're, they're mainlining it to you. So it's way, way more efficient. They're probably using a smaller amounts to move you around. That's really, listen, cool. I'm glad people are working on things. And I'm glad you had a good time. But I understand you want to be in charge of it yourself?

Katie 57:50
Yeah, yes. I mean, you know, I feel like, especially like, everyone who listens to your podcast part of the Facebook group, I know that we all feel like we're a lot more empowered in educated within our own diabetes, routines and regiments, that it's just so hard to like, surrender that sometimes when, especially when you have experiences where like, oh, 144 That's a good blood sugar right before your meal or your 4.9 while you're pregnant, uh, that that's, that's still open agency. So like, you know, let's get some distressed for sure.

Scott Benner 58:24
Katie, I'm going to tell you a secret. Okay. Let's make sure nobody's listening. I think my it's been a couple of years now. So I'm probably okay. But Arden had a little cyst removed from near her fallopian tube, in a person in a procedure that I think, you know, soup to nuts took 35 minutes, I think Arden was only out for about a half an hour. And it took me a couple of nurses had to explain to a couple of different nurses till I hit on one who's like, my friends got diabetes, and then suddenly they're like, yeah, do whatever you want. I've heard those words before. It's very interesting how it worked, you know? But at the very end, I speaking to the doctor, and I was like, Look, this is a automated system, because Arden was using a loop at that point. And I said, it's doing it for like, if it notices her blood sugar going up, it's going to give her insulin, if it notices her blood sugar going down, it's going to take insulin away. Like it's gonna keep her right. She goes, okay. But you know, can you shut that automation off? And I was like, oh, yeah, you can shut it off. I could just give her a constant Basal rate and it won't take away. She goes, let's do that during the procedure. I was like, okay, and then Katie. You didn't I didn't I lied. Yeah. Yes. I was like, a click, click, click click here you go keep this phone near her in the operating room. They put it like this like sealed bag. And they kept her phone near her in the operating room. I said it's, you know, within Bluetooth distance closer, the better. You know, and I even showed them on the screen. I was like, if this gets read, it's not connected. Get it closer to this, you know, I showed him where the Dexcom was the whole thing. But yeah, I left that out. Great. have them run. And for sure her blood sugar was terrific during that.

Katie 1:00:03
So well that's like basically what I would do when I had my weekly blood sugar check in for the endo office, they'd be like, Oh, you're high round here, change this phase over to this. And I just say, Okay, thanks. And then like, still continue to do what I felt was best.

Scott Benner 1:00:17
When we walked out of the room when they took Arden away. And Kelly and I were like, Let's go downstairs and like, we'll get something that we basically went to the cafeteria and stared at Arden's Dexcom, following pretty much what we did. So we're walking down the hall and the nurses are going one way with Arden, and we're going the other way. And it's very tense, you know, cuz, I mean, it's just a little procedure, but stuff happens, you know, so you're really worried. And my wife goes, um, it was cool of her to leave, you know, to understand the algorithm, everything, and I understand her wanting it to be off, and I was like, I didn't turn off. My wife's like, what do you do? And I was like, it'll be fine. Don't worry about

Katie 1:00:56
that. Because if something did go wrong, you could jumped in and turn it off. Well, no, I guess at that point, you kind of know.

Scott Benner 1:01:03
I saw I did have Nightscout. So I could I could have made adjustments to her Basal if I needed to remote remotely. So I paid

Katie 1:01:11
it. There's a 30 minute procedure you said so wasn't Yeah, I mean, but

Scott Benner 1:01:14
they could have gotten in there. And there could have been like a taco truck in there or something. taking longer, right. And did I do the wrong thing? In hindsight? Yeah, probably. But you know, like, but during that procedure, her blood sugar tried to rise, and it stopped it. So did I do the right thing turned out to be, you know, if she was gonna be in there longer, I might have tried harder to talk her into leaving it on. And maybe I would have shown her how to shut it off. But this was a half an hour. I was like, I'm rolling the dice here. So yeah, anyway, this is definitely not medical advice. This part. No doctors. No plus, I know nothing. I mean, people listen closely. My senior year of high school, my senior year of high school, I missed 53 days of school. I, I went to work instead of going to school 53 of the seniors. Those days, you probably shouldn't even be listening this podcast. I mean, honestly,

Katie 1:02:13
you may think there's only like 100 and some days of school anyways. Right? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:02:17
you're probably breaking a law by listening to me. So what do you think of that? So anyway? Is there anything that we have not spoken about that we should have? And will the baby make any more cute noises? Or Is he asleep?

Katie 1:02:28
He's currently asleep. But I can see those eyes like dancing, squint. Yeah, you know, like, they're darting back and forth underneath the eyelids. So no, I think I just really wanted to like, kind of share, like, how my experience was while pregnant. And then especially the labor and delivery because I think that was the thing I was missing the most, like your podcast, and everything is great. I almost wish there was a subgroup for like, pregnant juice boxes. Because I was in some like pregnant, C, type one diabetes Facebook groups, but like, that's not the same information support you get from the juice box community. And so I'm really thankful that like, you and Jenny had been doing more episodes about pregnancy. So I could like, use the bold with insulin methods. In this new way, it's great.

Scott Benner 1:03:20
That's very cool. Can I ask you a question? Sure. This miles, I would still have a little white dots on them, or is that gone? white dots. No, you know how their skin looks like little pluck chickens at first, like, Oh, yes.

Katie 1:03:32
And all the baby acne and everything. That's gone. Yeah, for the most part.

Scott Benner 1:03:38
I can't believe your kid Coues weed like curses at you.

Katie 1:03:43
With my husband's mouth, that's gonna be like before,

Scott Benner 1:03:46
baby in the face right now and try to imagine that there will be a day when it looks right at you and goes

Katie 1:03:54
Oh, I know it. Yeah, I've actually told my husband I'm like, Hey, like maybe let's practice not cursing so much around him. So that way when time comes like you don't have to just cold turkey. He was like, I have to cold turkey Kersey and I was like, Well, I'd like him not to have his first words. And

Scott Benner 1:04:11
the first ones the bigger. We made the we I made the decision that I wasn't going to change and Kelly was like, You should not be cursing in front of the kids. And I was like, but I love the curse so much, Katie, it's hard to put into words.

Katie 1:04:25
I think that's how my husband is too. And like, I mean, to give him credit. Like he is a very respectable adult in a business plays. It's not like he's just around cursing, like he knows how to act and like, so even though he grew up, like, in his family, like probably cursing and he was I don't know if he was allowed to curse or not, but like, he knows how to act. So like you can teach a kid that like you don't just get to talk like this.

Scott Benner 1:04:45
I want everyone every man to listen, listening to hear how we're spoken about. He knows how to act. Like he's almost like, oh, he won't pee on the rug or for only going for an hour. Don't worry about it. He knows what I like listen, I'm not saying that I'm in the grocery store trying To reach the eggs and you're in front of me, I'm like, motherfucker get out of the way. Right? In my mind, I might be thinking, exactly. But no actually being honest. As I get older that goes away to it must be. It must be testosterone.

Katie 1:05:15
Oh, yeah. Yeah, not as strong. Like,

Scott Benner 1:05:19
I don't feel like I have to kill, conquer or make something pregnant anymore. Like, it's a much cheaper way to be. You just given up a little more, even a give up. It's just like, you don't have these desires to do. Okay, those things like I, you know, I but I can definitely see how people might start talking about you need to find other things to do with your time. Some hobbies? Well, because do you want to be depressed for a second? Katie? I mean, you've got off going, you can handle Yeah. So I'm done. I'm almost done doing all the things I'm supposed to do. Like from a from a nature perspective, right. Like I, I saw a girl thought she was pretty tricked her into having sex with me made a baby kept the Baby Alive. And now you know, more, more, more up to date terms. I'm paying for college, supporting them as they figure things out. Like there's going to be a moment, right where Cole's 21 Like, it's probably going to happen in the next, I'm guessing four years, where he's just gonna, like, have a job and make his own decisions. And when something comes up, he's gonna ask somebody in his life, not me. And Arden's not far behind him. So then what is my purpose after that?

Katie 1:06:39
Well, you wait for the random phone calls you get because I still, I mean, that's true. Like I, once I started, like, my own career, and everything was like, you put on so much less dependent on your parents, but there's still times when like, the dishwasher is broken. You're like, I gotta call my dad.

Scott Benner 1:06:56
That's real world stuff. But I mean, like, Circle of Life stuff.

Katie 1:07:00
Yeah. I'm a grandparent, maybe.

Scott Benner 1:07:03
I don't know what that means. Yeah. I just told you, they're judging everything you're doing. They don't want you. They're gonna be like, Oh, he's gonna screw that kid up. Like, he screwed me up. Exactly what they're gonna think. Yeah, yeah, I, we were so close to calling this Scott makes up a postpartum lady cry, but you you help you handle that pretty well. So I wasn't trying to make as I'm saying, and I was like, I shouldn't be saying this to her. She's probably still flooded with hormones. And I'm like, What's your real purpose? Katie? Aren't you gonna be useless in 20 years?

Katie 1:07:33
I think right now, it's still so far for me to even imagine that, that it's not hitting home yet. Because like, right now, I'm just like, can we get through the night?

Scott Benner 1:07:42
No, I completely understand there's, there's no reasonable way for you to imagine what I'm talking about where you are, if you would have said that, to me, when Cole was three months old, I would not have, I wouldn't be able to conceptualize anything. You were saying I would have thought no, I'm gonna be alive forever. My whole life is gonna take forever, you know? And yeah, it turns out, like, you know, a couple of bad years. Er, and next thing, you know, it's 10 years later, you don't I mean?

Katie 1:08:16
I mean, I understand that I don't understand. Because people would tell me, like, how much changes once you have a baby and like, you know, I wasn't able to picture it. And then it is like this feeling of like, Yeah, nothing could ever prepare you for what changes whenever you become a parent. And so I have no doubt that they'll be plenty more experiences like this as he gets older. That's like, I could not have been prepared for this. Even if you would have told me exactly what was about to happen. Yep,

Scott Benner 1:08:42
you have to absolutely believe that. The passage of time, brings understanding. And that's wonderful. And the passage of time, makes you older, and allows you less time to use your understanding. And that's terrible. Like there are these. Everything in nature is competing, like everything, like we've been joking about it for an hour, but you're gonna love this kid so much, and that kid's gonna know it. And yet, you're going to have conversations where you're like, I don't understand why, why is this even happening? Like, like, Why? Why when your kid hits 22 They suddenly feel like, well, I have to push away from these people a little bit like I have to prove to the world to myself that I can do this thing. And, and as it's happening and it will feel terrible to you. You'll also have this amazing feeling of oh, look, he's becoming independent. Everything's happy and sad at the same time. There's no main line you don't get there's no life heroin, where it's just like pure like, ah, it just, this is probably as close as that comes to that is that baby. So soak it up. It's really really cool. You're gonna like, you're gonna have such an amazing experience and I wish I wish you nothing but excitement and happiness and Hope that kids first words aren't son of a bitch, but they probably

Katie 1:10:04
will be. No, I really appreciate that I am trying to like, take time each day to be like, hey, it's not always fun, but let's enjoy some. Yeah, 30 minutes here and there. The most

Scott Benner 1:10:17
honest and trite words I've ever spoken in my life. And many people speak them as well as it goes by really fast. So you do your best to slow it down, I guess. But try not to slow down the bad parts. Don't let those go by really quick and slow the good parts?

Katie 1:10:34
Yeah, yeah. The 2am Like screamfest right. Yeah, like lacking? Yeah, leave.

Scott Benner 1:10:39
Terrible. Does that happen?

Katie 1:10:42
Yeah, he doesn't like to have his diaper change in the middle of night, which I get but like when you're having a blowout, like it can't really? Yeah, let you sit in it.

Scott Benner 1:10:50
To be honest with you, I've never as an adult food myself in my sleep. But if some lady was to take off my underwear in the middle, and I think that would be fine.

Katie 1:11:00
Maybe frightening if you're still asleep. I'm probably

Scott Benner 1:11:02
thinking of it differently than Myles is too. But yeah, I'm guessing the probably the cold air just hits him It makes him upset I would imagine.

Katie 1:11:08
I think so. Yeah, it's just a startle of like I was asleep and bassinet and I'm on the Champion table. What happens?

Scott Benner 1:11:13
Yeah, no kidding. You flop on up there like a ham like yeah, babies put on themselves. It's great. Oh, yes. All right, Katie, listen, we're gonna end like this. Okay, you never considered even for a second name. I'm Scott once fraid not okay. Never even popped up as a joke.

Katie 1:11:35
No, I did not. But we were stuck on a middle name for a long time, so I shouldn't try to hide it or make it a contender. No,

Scott Benner 1:11:42
no, you should. I just wanted to know seriously if there was a conversation were you ever looked at your husband? When are we under any obligation to name this baby after the guy who made the podcast?

Katie 1:11:54
Yeah, he probably would have you know

Scott Benner 1:11:59
you would think so.

Katie 1:12:02
Yeah, look at us on and be like your name after Amanda. I really have no concept.

Scott Benner 1:12:07
Dog my last name so to that person. Ah,

Katie 1:12:11
that's a good name for a dog close enough.

Scott Benner 1:12:13
I take it I'm done. Yeah, I'm done pushing for these babies. I just really wanted to I seriously, as crazy as it sounds. I just wanted to know if even in passing You were ever at a restaurant you're like you want to name is Scott. If the guy on the podcast he asked about him all the time. And so I'm glad it didn't by the way it shows good mental health on your part.

Katie 1:12:30
Yeah, I don't have some like, what's a syndrome whenever you're kidnapped? Oh, I think the way you like when you like fall in love with her kidnapper type of deal.

Scott Benner 1:12:46
Yeah, I have to Google because my brain just went blank. Hold on. Oh, what's it called? As soon as it pops up, I'm gonna feel stupid for not knowing. Stockholm Syndrome.

Katie 1:12:59
Sakuma syndrome. Yeah, I'm talking to him with this podcast, I need a name

Scott Benner 1:13:03
is a condition in which hostages develop a psychological bond with their captors during captivity. This term was

Katie 1:13:09
I'm listening to you several hours a week. So it might work?

Scott Benner 1:13:15
Should I start like whispering like commands in between words? Do you think that would work? You never

Katie 1:13:19
know. I mean, you do have quite the power if you ever tried to change it.

Scott Benner 1:13:25
Let's try it here. Katie, US residents with type one or caregivers or caregivers of type one sugar to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey. There you go. I just did that because I get paid for that. I'm just kidding. I also think it's a really great. I let me be clear now that I said it out loud. And we all know I'm not going to edit anything out. I think that the Wendy exchange is really, really amazing organization. And I do want more people to add their data to it so that better decisions can get made for people. Look how quickly I got serious. So better decisions could be made for people with type one. But I do get money when you do.

Katie 1:14:00
I've done it. I want it registered. So I support it.

Scott Benner 1:14:05
You bought me lunch? I appreciate I did. Thank you. We haven't missed anything.

Katie 1:14:11
I don't think so. This is great. I can't wait to hear where you drop the ads throughout this podcast.

Scott Benner 1:14:18
No, you're a listener. Oh yeah, definitely you care. Like I the one I put up today with Chris Dudley.

Katie 1:14:25
So I just started it started automatically playing after my last podcast. I was like maybe not listened to a podcast before interview you know?

Scott Benner 1:14:34
I'm gonna do what he did. But I I asked him what it was like to play with Michael Jordan right before the ad. But I let him answer a little bit before the ad played. And as I was finishing making the ads I said aloud on the on the recording. I was like, There's no way anybody thought I wasn't going to cut him off as soon as I asked the question, but I was like, Sure it seemed mean. So yeah, I I'm a product of the the 80s. I know about cliffhangers. I once had to wait an entire summer to find out who shot Jr. So what do you think of

Katie 1:15:04
that? Yeah. Now Netflix

Scott Benner 1:15:07
is the words that are meaningless to you and most people listening. But hopefully, we'll see that pop up on Google who shot Jr. People will be like, what does that mean? Yeah, anyway, go find out. Also, I wish it had anything to do with your episode because I would totally call the Episode Who shot Jr. But instead I'm leaning towards stuff like it took miles and miles to ripen Katie surface. It's gonna work out but the words cervix ripening are the least attractive words I've ever heard in my entire life. Yeah, you're right. And I imagine they are to you too. Now that you have context for what it means. For sure. Oh, my God. All right. Well, I'm gonna let you go so that we don't start talking about putting a pill in your vagina? Yes.

A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Kibo Penn at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL. You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juice box. You use a blood glucose meter all the time. You might as well use an accurate one that is easy to carry, easy to use, and easy to see it night. Contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Get yourself a Contour. Next One blood glucose meter. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Oh, and a little heads up. There's a big episode coming up very soon. Make sure you're subscribed in your audio app wherever you listen your podcast app, Apple Music, Spotify. Where else might people listen Amazon music? You know, wherever your app is, if you just like you know, I listen when I listen. Hit subscribe or follow depending on your app. Because you don't want to miss what's coming. I promise. I'm holding my hand up like I was in a courtroom on a television show. And I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God. And there's a big show coming up. If you're subscribed, you won't miss it. Let me be clear. When this episode I'm talking about pops up in the future on the front of your little phone. You see a pop up your little hearts going to skip a beat. You're gonna go what's happening? I got a call out sick. Hello. I can't come to work today. I need to listen to the Oh no, I'm sick. Then you hang up the phone. You're not really sick. Turn on the podcast and you listen, like intently. You probably sit in a dark room with your eyes closed so you can focus because that's the big deal that I'm talking about here. I got stuff coming. What am I saying to you? When I say when I say listen, listen, closer, closer. Subscribe. We're follow in your podcast that trust me. When I'm this close to the microphone. It feels very intimate, even for me. So I'm freaking myself out so I'm gonna go

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#616 Defining Thyroid: Hypothyroidism and Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis

Scott and Jenny Smith, CDE share insights on thyroid disorder.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 616 of the Juicebox Podcast.

In 2019, The Endocrine Society said that thyroid dysfunction diabetes mellitus are closely linked. Several studies have documented the increased prevalence of thyroid disorder in patients with diabetes, and vice versa. It is with that in mind, and in the spirit of the defining diabetes episodes. This is the first in a series with Jenny Smith and I, where we will define the terms that you need to understand to deal with thyroid dysfunction. And please, if you're thinking right now, I don't have any problem with my thyroid. Just listen to them anyway, because some of the symptoms mask themselves as normal everyday maladies. Just please listen, they're just a couple of minutes long and you might need them down the road if you don't need them today. It's important. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver for someone who has type one, you could take the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box in fewer than 10 minutes. When you do this, it will be completely anonymous. They will be HIPAA compliant, you will be helping people with type one diabetes, and you will be supporting the podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. If you're looking for the defining diabetes series, they're available in your podcast player or at Juicebox Podcast calm. At that website, you'll also find the diabetes Pro Tip series. Ask Scott and Jenny. The diabetes variables episodes, after dark episodes, algorithm pumping based episodes, how we eat series. It's all right there. It's either in your podcast player, or at juicebox podcast.com. At the end of this episode, and at the end of every defining thyroid episode, I will list the symptoms of hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, and Graves disease. I think that one of the episodes of the podcast that I'm very proud of, besides the ones that we've done together is number 413. It's the talking about thyroid disease in general with Dr. But I think I'm proud of it because it's complete and thorough. It's easy to listen to. But moreover, I think this is something that might be happening to a number of people and they don't know, or they don't bother to look into it. Or in the case of a person I met more recently, it was in my private life. I forget we were together somewhere. And this person was like I'm always cold. Bla bla bla, like, you know, she just said it a couple of times next time I saw her. I said, Hey, you said the last time we were together, you said I'm always cold hands and feet. And she goes, Yeah, my whole body. Sometimes they said, Do you have trouble getting arrested? And she said, Yeah, and I'm like, no matter how much you're asleep, you just never feel rested. She goes right, right. And I said, Listen, you know, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news. But I think you have hypothyroidism. And a simple blood test would tell you if this is the case. And if it is, you would take this tiny little like hormone replacement, you know, and you'd feel significantly better. And the vibe I got from her was weird. It was there's nothing wrong with me. I'm not sick. I don't, I'm not gonna do this. Right. I thought I felt very sad. Because I mean, three of the four people in my house, take a thyroid medication in the morning, or in the evening, with the case of one of them. It's not a big deal. And it's significantly helps them and I thought I wonder how many people just think, like, I'm older now. That's why I or you know, my life is hard. That's why I can't get rested. And I mean, right, so many people with you know, autoimmune disease, listen to this podcast. I wanted to take a chunk out of the time that I have for people and make sure that they understand, you know, a thyroid condition so that maybe they'll think to take care of it for themselves. Well, and it's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:41
really applicable in terms of autoimmune thyroid disease, it's very applicable. If you live with any autoimmune disorder, you are more likely to potentially have another one. Right, right. So and thyroid disorder and type one are very common. commonly linked together. So, again, I think you're also right on the I don't know how many people are undiagnosed, that really depending on what their levels come back like, and or if they're even being tested, right. And you might glance sort of mentioned something in a visit with your doctor. And unless they catch that, or like this person who's talking to you, it says it a couple of times, it may be completely dismissed.

Scott Benner 5:30
If I wasn't me, and this wasn't my job, I wouldn't have, I would have just thought that girl's hands get cold. You know, you don't I mean, like, it never occurred to me. And I think to that. The other problem is that even if you have seen this happen, I was once helping a woman with her child who was in the hospital. So her kid was in the hospital, she had the kid had type one. And she was trying to figure out the insulin because the hospital just wasn't like helping and things were getting worse and worse. Sure. And while we were talking, it became clear to me that the mom, you know, something happened, it was about insulin usage. And I said, does she have Hashimotos? Or, or hypothyroidism? She's like, I'm gonna ask them to test. And they did. And then during the conversation, she said to me, you know, all that stuff you described to me, I feel that way, too. Ah, and I was like, okay, and then she tested and she sent me an email months later and said, I, you know, I have it too. And I'm taking thyroid replacement now. And I was like, you know, I just wonder, I don't know, it's such a simple thing, because then, you know, she got it sorted for herself. But you know, she had trouble with a child, when the child was in the hospital because of the whole, you're in range problem, where you when they they measure your TSH, and then you're like, some, some institutions, if you're not over 1010, they won't give you medication, they'll start me know, maybe around eight, but in this one to 10 testing, you know, zone. We found that my son had significant medical issues when his TSH was over two. And so interesting. Yeah. And so

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:13
as the reference ranges, much wider, the reference ranges between like point four and like five, depending on what doctor you're talking to, and what you know, lab did the results and gave you the normal range and everything so

Scott Benner 7:27
well. Well, Dr. BENITO manages, but the people in my family to keep their TSH under two. And it's a and they're not hyper. And see now here's the thing, we've been talking for three minutes, we've used words like hyperthyroid, hypo thyroid, Hashimotos, you know, all this stuff, but you know, thyroid replacing hormones, I want people to understand what they are. Right. So my what my hope is that these episodes will be short, digestible, and either make people think, ooh, I might have that, or my kid might have that. Or if they know they have it. I hope it helps them believe. Maybe I'm not being medicated correctly, because I still have some of these symptoms. So I appreciate you doing this with me. Cool. Yeah. Well, where should we start? If you like?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:14
Ah, well, I think I mean, if we started with just the list and went down, did you you didn't. I was gonna say, I was gonna ask if you actually like alphabetize these

Scott Benner 8:26
I believe they were in alphabetical order, but I just moved them around. I started sorting them and putting them together. Like for instance, I put, you know, Hashimotos and hypothyroidism together. Right, I started putting TSH and thyroid storm THX testing and thyroid stimulating hormone I put together that kind of thing. So I mean, I'm just trying to think of it functionally for people listening, like what do they want to know? First, we just define Hashimotos. And hyperthyroidism may be in one episode. Sure. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay, now, I'm going to leave this in so people can recognize.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:05
Recognize that we don't pre plan any discussions, right?

Scott Benner 9:08
It's pretty much like a road rally race, like we just got in the car, like we're supposed to go to California.

Unknown Speaker 9:14
Okay, where where's the map? Let's

Scott Benner 9:16
figure it out. So why don't we just start with, you know, the idea that Hashimotos thyroiditis and hypothyroidism while they will, are not necessarily the same thing, and we might even be hammering through some of my understanding. So let's start with hypothyroidism. Tell me what it is.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:36
Well, it's essentially a condition where the thyroid doesn't make enough thyroid hormone, right? I mean, that's the easiest definition of hypo thyroid. And so we need a certain level of thyroid hormone to essentially maintain sort of metabolic things in our body, right. They play important roles in weight. temperature management and how strong you are and how you feel energy levels and all of that. So

Scott Benner 10:06
it is hypothyroidism and Hashimotos two different things or does Hashimotos create hypothyroidism?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:18
It's kind of like a chicken in the egg right? Well, you know, antibodies tests can be done to determine the hypothyroid like definition. You know, the, the condition right? Hashimoto is is relative to an antibody or an autoimmune disorder. Okay. Whereas hypothyroidism without from what I understand without the antibodies present, hypo thyroid isn't Hashimoto.

Scott Benner 10:51
So a person can have hypothyroidism but not have an autoimmune disease. Yes. Okay. All right. But but if you have Hashimotos, well, let's let's define Hashimotos thyroiditis, then, like I have it as inflammation of the thyroid gland described by Dr. Hashimoto, it is the it is the most common cause of hyper hypothyroidism.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:14
Correct. And it's actually eight times more common in from what I remember eight times more common in women than in men.

Scott Benner 11:22
And it's one of those things that anecdotally, from talking to people. So I do this thing, I hope people don't get bored by it. But when I interview somebody, we're not talking about something specific. I always ask about auto immune in their family. And you'll be surprised how many people go no, no, no, there's no auto immune of my family. You go celiac hypothyroidism. And they go, Oh, yeah. And then the more you name, they're like, oh, wait, and then you find out there's 345 autoimmune diseases and their family happens a lot. Yes. You know, so I like to bring it up, because I'm trying to get a I'm trying to make the podcast a repository, you know, for for information. And I think that the one of them that comes up the most it's got to be it's a horse race between celiac and thyroid hypothyroid. Yeah, yes. You know, it's what I hear most from people. So hot. So Hashimotos. And again, go to Episode 413. To get a really deep dive on it. Dr. BENITO will explain it very, very thoroughly. But like, for instance, my wife has hypothyroidism. My son has Hashimotos. Okay, my daughter has type one diabetes, and hypothyroidism. My son has Hashimotos and no other issues, and no other issues. I mean, wow, I should knock on 19 pieces of wood. But, but

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:51
my desk is made of wood on that guy.

Scott Benner 12:53
I appreciate it. And, and so my son's thyroid was immense imaged, I guess, MRI. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:05
yeah, they do a kind of a scan and or a deeper imaging with dye and Yes, right.

Scott Benner 13:10
And she found some nodules on his, on his thyroid. At his age, I think we figured it out when he was about 21.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:19
Well, could she feel the nodules? Or could he feel them as well? Because often, I mean, from an endo standpoint, those with type one, which I know your son doesn't have, but from a standpoint of evaluation, they should be checking that low level in the throat and having you swallow. That's a first more visual sign that something is going on.

Scott Benner 13:41
And I'm just smiling because that happened, but it happened over zoom because of COVID.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:47
Oh, yeah. So there was no touching there.

Scott Benner 13:51
He was turning his head and doing weird things and jamming his face up to the camera and, you know, that kind of stuff. But yeah, so. Okay, so Hashimotos disease, when the immune system attacks the butterfly shaped gland of the neck, which is your thyroid, initially, inflammation of the thyroid causes a leak resulting in excess thyroid hormone, so you could get hyper thyroid ism for a little over time the inflammation prevents the thyroid from producing enough hormone hypothyroidism symptoms can include, I'll put all the symptoms I'm gonna put the symptoms in every episode, so we won't have to hear okay, so I I'm still, I'm very much more you know what, this is good news. I've always been a little like I'm not sure. And now I feel very clear. Hypothyroidism could come up in your life without you having an autoimmune disease. Correct. But you

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:49
know, Hashimoto is is the most common form of hypo thyroid. Yes, but

Scott Benner 14:54
if you have Hashimotos thyroiditis, you're going to you you will then have hypo thyroid All right isn't at some point. Yes. Okay. We did that. That's good. Right? Cool. Yeah. See, see this disease. Jenny and I are just gonna jump right to the next thing. Maybe I won't even edit out all of our banter in the middle. I'll just when they pick up the next week, they'll hear us just go to the next thing.

Unknown Speaker 15:18
Be like those crazy people frequently

Scott Benner 15:26
for more episodes of The Juicebox Podcast and to continue with the defining thyroid series. If you like Jenny, she's for hire. You can find her at integrated diabetes.com She helps people with their type one diabetes, she really good at it. So if you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, and you're listening in an app, but you're not subscribed or following, please hit subscribe and follow on that app. And don't forget to tell a friend. Hey, if you find the podcast on YouTube, we started putting up animated versions of the defining diabetes series. They're really cute, great for kids. Very visual. Go find it. Alright, now let's go through the symptoms. We will start with hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism signs and symptoms may include fatigue, increased sensitivity to cold, constipation, dry skin, weight gain, puffy face hoarseness, muscle weakness, elevated blood cholesterol level, muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness, pain stiffness or swelling and your joints heavier than normal or irregular menstrual periods. thinning hair slow heart rate depression impaired memory enlarged thyroid gland. In infants you're looking for a yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes which is commonly called jaundice. In most cases this occurs when a baby's liver can't metabolize a substance called bilirubin, which normally forms in the body recycles old or damaged red blood cells. You also might see a larger protruding tongue, difficulty breathing, hoarse crying, or an umbilical hernia. As progression happens in infants, you may move on to constipation, poor muscle tone, or excessive sleepiness. Hypothyroidism in children and teens may indicate with por growth, resulting in a short stature, delayed development of permanent teeth, delayed puberty, poor mental development. That list is from the Mayo Clinic. Let's move on now to hyperthyroidism. This list is from the Cleveland Clinic. Hyperthyroidism may present with rapid heartbeat are palpitations, feeling shaky and or nervous weight loss, increased appetite, diarrhea and more frequent bowel movements, vision changes, thin warm and moist skin menstrual changes, intolerance to heat and excessive sweating, sleep issues, swelling and enlargement of the neck from an enlarged thyroid gland. Hair loss and change in hair texture. It would get brittle bulging of the eyes as seen with Graves disease and muscle weakness. Okay, back to the Mayo Clinic for Graves disease, you're looking for anxiety and irritability. A fine tremor of the hands or fingers heat sensitivity and an increase in perspiration where warm or moist skin weight loss despite normal eating habits, enlarged thyroid gland change in menstrual cycle erectile dysfunction or reduced libido. frequent bowel movements, bulging eyes, fatigue, thick red skin usually on the shins or tops of the feet. Rapid or irregular heartbeat palpitations, sleep disturbance. If you your child or someone you love has any of these symptoms, please seek medical attention. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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#615 Parenting Type 1 with OCD

Jaime's child has type 1 diabetes and Jaime struggles with OCD, control and trauma.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 615 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On this episode, I'll be speaking with Jaime. She is the mother of a child with type one diabetes. Today we're going to talk about raising a child with type one when you have your own issues. We're also going to talk a little about Janie's child being on the Omni pod five trial and some conversations that she and I had privately some time ago. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you're looking for a fast and easy way to help people with type one diabetes, you have type one diabetes, and you're from the United States or you are the caregiver of a child with type one who also lives in the United States. All you have to do is go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Take the quick survey support people with type one diabetes while you're supporting the podcast, P one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Find out more and get started today. At contour next one.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast is also sponsored by touched by type one, learn everything you need to know about them at touched by type one.org or on their Facebook and Instagram pages. Know this before we start no pressure. I am having an incredibly bad day. So it is up to you to cheer

Jaime 2:03
me. Okay, I think I will

Scott Benner 2:06
be great. Go ahead whenever you're ready.

Jaime 2:10
Okay. My name is Jamie and I live about an hour north of Boston. And I have two sons and my oldest was diagnosed. Type one July 19 2019.

Scott Benner 2:26
Just two years ago. Oh, almost to the day. Yeah. almost to the day. Wow. So you are feeling it today? I would imagine right. Having just gone past the anniversary of it.

Jaime 2:37
You know, I've been feeling it for a few months coming up? I think. So yes. I've been feeling pretty deeply how was

Scott Benner 2:45
the arrival of the second anniversary compared to the first

Jaime 2:51
it was much harder. So part of the reason I think, I don't know, part of the reason I think I'm even talking to you today is to talk about like the PTSD that I went through, you know, after the diagnosis and what that looked like for me. And I think that the first year, I was sort of in survival mode and sort of I'm going to be this perfect, you know, caretaker, and he's going to have perfect numbers. And this is going to be okay. And then it was like the second year that I was like, this sucks. This is forever.

Scott Benner 3:28
We're still doing this thing.

Jaime 3:31
Yeah, exactly. Oh, this is still going on. So I think that you know, that's that is, you know, in the, you know, during the first year, it was like I had you like you were like a bright light that helped me and then also he was or he still is actually part of the the Omnipod horizons slash Omnipod five trials. So I thought, Okay, this is gonna make things so much better. And it did, both things helped so much, but like, it's still here.

Scott Benner 4:02
So, you're telling me that six months after Christmas, I'm sick of the tree? Like you just can't keep the joy? There's nothing, nothing you want for that long now? Well, exactly. What is your expectation? Do you feel like you're going to have this like feeling forever? Or do you believe it's going to go away?

Jaime 4:24
Um, I feel like I have to do I feel like when my son was first diagnosed at the age of two, so you have to remember like it was it fell on completely on myself and my husband he there you know, he, it was just us. And I feel like I never realized the impact that it would have. For me when he was first diagnosed. It was this is something he's going to have to deal with for the rest of his life. This happened to him. This is heartbreaking. And over the past year, I've realized that diabetes has entered every crevice Have my soul, you know what I mean? It is not just a disease, for my son, it is a disease for his brother, for myself for my husband, for his, for his grandparents, my parents, and I feel like, I feel like what I need to do is what I'm hoping is that I can come to terms with that and accept that and learn to maybe hold on more firmly to hope and less to control. If that makes sense.

Scott Benner 5:25
It does. So you're saying that you are at the moment in your mind trying to manipulate and manipulatable things that may or may not happen in the future? How do you get back home share with people a little bit some of the ways that you make yourself crazy trying to accomplish an on accomplishable task?

Jaime 5:45
Oh my gosh, like I am your typical control girl, like I was going to have you know, get met very chill wedding have a huge house in the hills. And you know, like my kids are going to be healthy, they are going to be good at sports because my husband was like a sports star growing up and you know, we were just gonna have this happy little life tied up in a bow and it feels like you know, with the diagnosis that shattered everything to my Kohler and it not only you know, worried me for my son, it worried me for his brother was a huge part of it, you know, knowing that his chances of being diagnosed increased and just like how it would affect his brother and you can't control those things. i For the longest time tried to control my youngest son from being diagnosed with diabetes. I mean, I did it all I did the vitamin D the kg the, the fish oil, you know what I mean? And it was like, I was not gonna let this happen. I tested his blood sugar 50 times a day. I had like, I was just living like a living on a thread by thread for so long. And it wasn't until I came to terms with the fact that I cannot control what happens and and said I need to just embrace hope.

Scott Benner 7:04
Well, at least a rough go. At least your other child has amazing vitamin levels.

Jaime 7:09
She actually was really funny because Max's endo had said to me the other day, she's like, you know, what are you doing for vitamin D? And I'm like, Oh, they get like 20,000 Whatever. IUD IDs or whatever, not IUDs they, you know, they get this much. And she's like, well, that could actually be dangerous. I think you need to back that off. And overdose.

Scott Benner 7:35
Yeah, you can get too much vitamin D it has it has poor effects, but how much we're using a day.

Jaime 7:41
I think 20,000 a day I was giving them weight and like these droppers. She was like, I want you to cut that back to like three times a week and see I even have a hard time doing that. Even with her telling me. You know, Jamie?

Scott Benner 7:55
Jamie, this is interesting. Does it feel like a ritual that you need to do?

Jaime 7:59
Oh, 100% this is what I didn't need to do to keep things back. Gotta keep the control.

Scott Benner 8:04
Do you have any obsessive compulsive things happening prior to diabetes? The count your steps? Click your teeth. anything odd?

Jaime 8:13
Yeah, so actually, I have been, you know, clinically diagnosed OCD way before diabetes. And I am, that has been like an added component to like the post traumatic stress of the diagnosis. I'm sorry that so? Absolutely. Yeah.

Scott Benner 8:31
So listen, I'm not a doctor. I think we've covered that a couple of times on here. Yes. But I I personally try to take 5000 I use a vitamin D every day. And if I miss, I don't think anything of it. I can tell you that. In the course of trying to raise my sons the doctor was giving that like kind of super pill. I think they're 20 or 50,000, maybe once a week. And that ended up being too much for him. So he had to go to every other week. It does raise I want to say, Oh, wow, here's me guessing phosphates or something. So anyway, when your body has too much vitamin D, it starts producing something else thinking something's wrong. So the right there's a bad side to have. You can't have too much. Yes. What do so boy this fell on you. And this is and so you kind of leaned on all of your what do we call it? But yeah, you're I don't have that. Right. And you were like, I will use my obsessive nature to help my daughter.

Jaime 9:37
I was the hero. I was gonna do it all

Scott Benner 9:42
and so two years into it. Let's start like with the what most people listening to her like I can't believe this is gonna be the easy stuff but I think in your case, it might be the How about just the the blood sugar stuff. How's that going?

Jaime 9:55
Amazing. He has. He has a one C is five point He's for now. And you know, we're slowly starting to teach him that, you know, there's certain things that we just I know, like, a big thing for you is, you know, you don't restrict Arden's diet at all. There's certain things for max that I cannot figure out some, like, you just don't get to eat these things. And he's a very, like, agreeable child. So he's just like, okay, like, he'll be like, I can't haven't been in it, because it's too hard for my mommy to dose for. So, I mean, we definitely, there are things that we definitely restrict in ways we try to do more low carb, you probably eats, you know, between 75 and 80 carbs a day. So not like crazy low carb. But I think as he gets older, we may swing that way. I don't know. But I'm with the Omnipod horizon or five, whatever you want to call it. His numbers overnight are magical. Like,

Scott Benner 10:54
yeah, they're gonna want you to call it beyond the pod five, I'm pretty sure. And yeah, I think they wish they wouldn't have like, been like, we're gonna call it horizon. And then later, they're like, what if we did this?

Jaime 11:05
Well, it's funny because all the supplies we get from his endo say, toddler horizon trial, so I'm like, I don't know, whatever it is, but yes, I think you're right. I think officially now it's Omni pod five.

Scott Benner 11:16
I think if I'm being 100% Honest, I believe it's Omni pod five with horizon or something? I know. Yeah. I'm sure we'll find out when it's launched. Right. But anyway, so how long? Okay, wait a minute. See? The image, Jamie, you have too much stuff to talk about my job. I just saw a fork in the road come up in my brain. I was like, ask this. And then a voice yelled, no, no, ask about this. Oh, gosh, somebody go a little farther into what you're doing for yourself? Because I mean, I don't know anybody personally, who has kind of obsessive thoughts, but I've heard people discuss it before. And it's obviously can be stifling to say the least. Yeah. And then you add this to it. So do you have them for yourself? And for your kids?

Jaime 12:07
Um, so it's interesting. I I started having, you know, obsessive compulsions in my 20s.

Scott Benner 12:17
Jimmy, Jimmy, give me a second. This will make sense in a second. Hold on one second.

Jaime 12:23
Oh, sure. Um, so I started having obsessive thoughts and compulsions in my 20s. And obviously, I didn't have kids at that time, but they were more focused on repeated behaviors, like checking to make sure the door was locked or tapping the wall a few times, before I left, I would have to try back and make sure I checked the garage door, those sorts of things. And they centered more around myself. And then once I had kids, they were lucky enough to be the receiver of some of the hosts. And it only manifested I mean, let me rephrase that it. It went a little out of control after the diagnosis, because the whole premise behind OCD is you're going to control your world with these thoughts and compulsions, right. So it's really like a control disorder. So you know, imagine someone that seriously struggles with needing to be in control of everything all the time, and then being told your child has this crazy disease where it's manageable, but not really, and you can never really be that much in control. And who knows, your other son could get it, too. That's, you know, it was a lot.

Scott Benner 13:48
Right? Well, so back in your 20s, did you address it at all?

Jaime 13:53
I, you know, I was, it was for me, I was living like that. So I went to different therapists and stuff and I was on medication. And they said, if it's not impacting your life more than like, an hour a day, like then you can be considered sort of in remission. So like, I flirted with treatment and things like that, but it wasn't like as big of an issue. It was like the diagnosis. Max's diagnosis was the catalyst that sort of blew the whole thing up when, you know, I didn't seek treatment for a while after he was diagnosed. I sort of lived in my obsessions and compulsions, until it got to the point where it was like, I couldn't live a normal life anymore. And it was, you know, it was to the point where my husband was like, I really think like, you know, like, you need to seek some sort of help. So,

Scott Benner 14:42
okay, and I guess before, how did it impact like, so I understand how it impacted you. How did it impact a marriage?

Jaime 14:53
Um, it it was hard because it wasn't, it wasn't just dealing with the This new discovery of a chronic illness. It was that plus trying to deal with my, you know, I don't want to call them crazy, because I want to do this so that other people that have the same feelings don't think they're crazy, because it's not, but it was these over exaggerated fears. And my husband could not bring me down. You know what I mean? It was like, I would get angry. I be, you know, I would step away from our children for a few hours, and I come home and I would be like, has gray been drinking a lot of water? Like in my husband be like, No. And I'm like, Well, how many? How many glasses of water has he had? He said, I don't know, Jamie, I didn't count his glasses of water. It'd be like, why wouldn't you have counted as glasses of water? And then it would turn to like anger. You know what I mean? So it was not just dealing with the stress of Max's diagnosis. It was dealing with this intense fear of the possibility of gray being diagnosed as well.

Scott Benner 15:57
Gotcha. Is there anything that impacts it for the positive?

Jaime 16:03
Um, is there any can sorry, can you put it?

Scott Benner 16:07
Yeah. Aside of medication, I guess, is there anything extra positively that stops? The thoughts are makes them easier?

Jaime 16:14
So yeah, so I'm in therapy. So that has helped a lot. And I'm actually just started EMDR. I did it once. And it wasn't with a therapist, I don't think that really knew what he was doing. And I started it with a new therapist. And it's been super helpful so

Scott Benner 16:34
far. So can you say more about what that is?

Jaime 16:37
Yeah, so EMDR is eye movement desensitization. Eye Movement, decent sight, desensitization, something I don't remember what the R stands for. But I don't know if maybe you can google it really quick. But

Scott Benner 16:55
you're not the third person to bring it up on the show is why I'm

Jaime 16:59
Oh, really? That's interesting. Yeah, it's, it's been very helpful for me. Um, and basically, it's, you know, you address these targets that you've had in your life that have been significant traumas. And obviously, my biggest one was Max's diagnosis. You address them, and then you go through these behaviors. And it helps to kind of reprocess your brain so that when you think of them, it's not the, you know, the same anxiety and doom and gloom as you retrain your brain to think of them in a less dramatic way.

Scott Benner 17:37
Yes, I've emdr.com. And there's a description here for a lay people. And I think that's me for certain EMDR eye movement, desensitization, desensitization and reprocessing. Glad you

Jaime 17:51
stumbled on that, too. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:52
there's a lot of letters in the middle of that. Yeah. Right. And reprocessing is a psychotherapy that enables people to heal from the symptoms and emotional distress that are the results of disturbing life experiences. Okay, cool. Yeah. Listen, I've got a couple of things. I'd like to forget what help

Jaime 18:12
we'll see you don't forget, it's just that, you know, if you have something traumatic, that's happened, that's, you know, really like interrupting your life, it helps you to be able to think about it without having sort of the whole trauma come back to you and having to relive it every single time. Okay.

Scott Benner 18:30
Okay. Excellent. I understand. Alright, so that's helping. Yes, yes. Okay. Very much. You don't have as many conversations with your husband that sound like

Jaime 18:40
Yeah, yeah, I haven't finger I haven't done a finger stick on gray and probably two months, so

Scott Benner 18:45
Well, I bet he's grateful. How old is he? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 18:48
He's three. Yeah. Okay,

Scott Benner 18:51
because that was probably impactful on him in ways that you didn't mean for it to be.

Jaime 18:55
Yeah. 100%. And I feel like very guilty looking back. But when you're in it, you know that saying, like, you do the best you can or you, you do the best you can and then when you know better you do better. Yeah, I I kind of feel like when I was in it, I really thought that I was doing the best I could you know what I mean? I don't think door. Well, and Max kind of had like a very dramatic diagnosis as well. So I think a part of the trauma centered around the day that he was diagnosed and people weren't believing me that something was wrong.

Scott Benner 19:31
So are you able to tell me about that without it making you upset?

Jaime 19:35
Yeah. It's not even like that. It's not like a big long story. I just I noticed that he had been drinking a lot of water and he was paying a lot. And I kind of like stash that in the back of my head, but didn't think too much of it. And then I just woke up one morning and my husband had already left for work and he started crying and I went into his room and he had like pee through his diaper, and he was like, very sad. And I was like something is wrong. So I called my husband and I was like, Mark, I really think he has diabetes. And because I, you know, I Googled it, Dr. Google, and and my husband was like, no, he's fine. It's the middle of July, he's drink a lot of water. Like, this is just you doing your obsessively crazy thoughts. You know,

Scott Benner 20:24
me, I have to tell you what you said that I thought if I was your husband only having spoken to you for 20 minutes right now, I'd be like, there goes Jamie again, and I gotta, I gotta get back to work, you know, like, so? Yeah. Okay, so I can see how this could be like, you're the boy that cried wolf all the sudden.

Jaime 20:43
Exactly. I nobody would believe me. And so I continue to watch him down, bottle after bottle of water. And I had to take my younger son in for some sort of an appointment somewhere else. And in that appointment, he was like, we had only been on the car, like 10 minutes. And he was like, Mama, I need some water. And that's when I was like, I told the receptionist like, I'm sorry, we have an emergency after go. I was like becoming unhinged. And so I called my mom and I was like, Mom, something's wrong. And she was like, Well, why don't you just call the pediatricians office? Tell them what's going on, you know, go talk to the nurse and see. So I called the nurse. She's like, you know, I'm sure nothing is wrong. And I was like, you know, it would make me it was a Friday. And I was like, you know, I'm thinking for yourself and my husband, like if we have to go through the whole weekend, like this was not good. So I was like, Would you mind if I just brought him in, like, just to be safe? And she said, Sure. So I made an appointment. I called my husband at work. And I was like, Mark, I was like, You need to come home right now. Like, he has diabetes like this is happening, like, you know, and so my husband, you know, begrudgingly came home in the hallway to the doctor's office. He was like, you know, this is fine. They he doesn't have diabetes, like, what do you want to do this weekend? Now? I have the rest of the day off. Friday. Yeah, right. And so we got to the pediatricians office, and the doctor came in, and he was like, you know, deaf, his weight and stuff. And he's like, Have you been sick? And I was like, no, he's totally normal, just like drinking lot peeing a lot. And he was like, okay, and he's like, yeah, so he doesn't have diabetes, you know, it's summer. It's hot. And, and he's like, so you guys are you're good to go. And I said, Well, isn't there a way to test because keep in mind, like, I knew nothing about diabetes. You know, I Googled for the signs. And they said, is there some way to test and he said, Well, he's not potty trained. And so we can't test his urine. So we would have to attach a bag to him under his diaper. And then when he goes to the bathroom, you would have to come in and give us the urine, and we'd have to test it, but that's really not necessary. And I said, Um, okay, well, is there any way to test his blood? Because I had a friend that the nurse and she said, You can test this blood sugar? Yeah, you know, you can test the sugar sync button. So he goes, you want to you want to pick his finger for this, like, I'm telling him, he doesn't have diabetes, and my husband's looking at me, like, I'm gonna freakin kill you. Because every I do this everywhere we go, you know,

Scott Benner 23:11
girls liked me in high school.

Jaime 23:15
We actually went to high school together. And so that, and I said, Yeah, I want to stick his finger like we're here. You know. So he, you know, the medical assistant comes in and sticks his finger in. And I knew because I heard her say, okay, so his blood sugar is and you know, now I know it was counting down. And she went, Oh, um, oh, okay. Let me so it's, you know, 786, she said, and I said, What does that mean? Is that bad? And she was like, well, it's probably nothing, but we might have you go to the hospital to just verify, and I'm like, quiet.

Scott Benner 23:53
Nobody ever wants to tell you anything. I'll let someone else say this to you. I gotta go.

Jaime 23:59
Yeah. And that's what she did. So then we're sitting in there waiting. And like, Mark, like, This is bad. So I did a quick Google search, like, what should your on my phone, like, what should your normal blood sugar be? And I saw that she'd be like, 100, like, nonfasting or something around that, like, Mark, I saw a number it was 786. Like, like, you know, like, he has diabetes. And my husband was still like, no, it's something else. Whatever. So the doctor comes back and he says, Well, he says, It looks like we were wrong. I was like, it looks like you are wrong.

Scott Benner 24:26
I would have been like, who's a mother?

Jaime 24:32
I did. I actually said it. I said, No, it looks like you're wrong. I was like, you know, I was like, in full like mama bear mode. And he says, you know, we're going to call an ambulance. He needs to go to the ER immediately. I said, You're not calling an ambulance. I said, I'm driving my son to because I I wanted to keep my family together like the four of us were there and I knew that I couldn't be away from my husband and I knew they wouldn't let us both go and we had gray and I said, I said you're not calling an ambulance. The hospital was like a mile from the pediatricians office. So I could probably get there faster. So, you know, we brought him to the ER and, and the ER doctor, my husband was still in the ER was like, you know, what else could this be in the finally that your doctor just looked at me he was like, this isn't any this can't be anything else. I said this is the he has your son has type one diabetes. And he said I'll never I'll never forget he said in your lies from here are changed forever.

Scott Benner 25:25
Oh, thanks. Great. Yeah. Excellent. I think those words get said to everybody for some reason. Yeah, I have a question. In the doctor's office, when your son has diabetes, and you're all of that, like, obsessive thought thinking was confirmed as being necessary. Was that was that bad for you?

Jaime 25:48
Scott, you are very intelligent man. You hit the nail on the head. That's exactly. So once my, my obsessive thoughts were confirmed, it was like it took off from there. It was like I have to, I have to be hyper. So I have what's called hyper vigilance. So I'm a whole bucket of fun. But I have this hyper vigilance of like, if I don't take care of my children, if I don't watch out for this, nobody else is going to

Scott Benner 26:16
write and you know, that's like, well, here's the interesting thing. Wow. Okay, I'm gonna feed into this for you. I think you're right. I just don't think it should make you

Jaime 26:28
tortured. Right? Because I can't control it.

Scott Benner 26:31
Yeah, there's a difference between understanding the reality of the statement and, and doing things that are not valuable in the pursuit of supporting the statement, I guess, is what I mean. So listen, when my son climbed on a school bus when he was five years old, for the first time, we went back into the house, Kelly took the day off to see him off for school the first time, we went back into the house and Kelly's like, he's going and I just started crying. Well, first of all, I'd been with him for five years, every minute of his life. That's the one thing. The second thing was this. I started doing like backwards math. I'm like, who gets a job driving a school bus? Like, it's like, it's only in the morning, in the afternoon? How much could that even pay? And, like, so who's doing that? My wife's like, retired people, or people who need part time work that I'm like, I don't know. Like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, why would they do that? Who are these teachers? You know what I mean? I was like, these are just people who want the summer off. And

Jaime 27:38
and, and while firing,

Scott Benner 27:40
right? I was just like, you've got to be kidding me. I said, I have just taken the thing I care most about in the world that I can't replace. And I've handed it off to strangers, literal strangers, and one of them's driving a tank with my son in it right now. Like, what are we doing? But, but the point, the point has to be, and I know this is this is a tough pill to swallow, especially if you're in your situation. Every once in a while, a school bus crashes into something and some kids die. And it's a horrible tragedy. But that cannot stop children from going to school. Right? And it can't make you sit at home thinking constantly. What if, you know my, the craziest example I've ever come up with on the show is that every once in a while frozen urine falls out of an airplane and like breaks somebody's roof of their house or something like you can't live your whole life wondering, a frozen urine is gonna fall on your head. It's exactly it because it's probably not going to. And if it does, you take the necessary steps and and if it gets out to the end of your control, that is what's gonna happen. You know, you know, and and, and it'll be incredibly sad. If something terrible happens. And it will be it will probably change you forever. But you can't allow yourself to ruin all the time that exists in your life worrying about what if frozen, urine falls on my head. And you know, like, just if it hits you be like, I be damned. That's just happened. I can't believe that happened. But at least you would not have wasted every minute leading up to that which is but you're so now the problem is, is that you're aware of that intellectually? Is

Jaime 29:37
that right? Absolutely aware? Absolutely. Yep. Got it.

Scott Benner 29:41
But it's hard to deal with. Okay. All right.

Jaime 29:44
It's very hard. Getting there.

Scott Benner 29:46
Well, good for you. That's it's very brave of you to tackle because it would be easy. I imagined, you just devolve into it and just rave at people like I can't believe you're not worried about the ant I saw in the backyard and what it could mean for earth sciences and Exactly right,

Jaime 30:02
right. And it could be anything. You know what I mean? It's just but my mind has chosen to place it on his diabetes, because it's the easiest thing. Obviously, it's the scariest. But really, it could be anything you know. And I don't know if you remember this, but I remember when you were helping me one day, I texted you like, frantic and I was like, I just decreased blood sugar. And it was, it was exactly 100 When he woke up this morning, and it supposed to be under 100? Does he have diabetes? Like Tell me? Does he have diabetes? And you're like, What are you talking about?

Scott Benner 30:30
Well, let's get into the rest of it. Now, let's I appreciate you going over all this. But let's move into the other stuff. Because I think we have some kind of fun stuff to talk about. It's gonna be a weird episode. And so let's just tell everybody, what do you think's gonna happen right now, if you were listening, Jamie, what would you expect to happen right now on the show?

Jaime 30:52
Um, talk about Omnipod horizon right after

Scott Benner 30:55
the ads

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Why don't you remind everyone, and by everyone, I mean me how we met because I meet a lot of people and I want to make sure that what I'm thinking of is what I'm thinking of.

Jaime 35:11
Yeah. Um, so I was in a super dark place I could not control. Like, he had a decent a one C, just because like he was going low a lot. But I mean, he was up and down, up and down, up and down. And I was like, a crazy person trying to manage his blood sugar. Like, I mean, think of your worst nightmare. And that was me. And it was taking every every sense of my energy, my power, I was like, you know, it wasn't a life. And I had listened to one of your podcasts before. And I don't know, it was like, in the beginning, when I was first diagnosed, and there's so much and I kind of like, Yeah, I'll go back to that. You know what I mean? Like, I thought you were funny. Like, I was like, Yeah, I could listen to that. But there's just so much other things I need to do. And I was driving home one day from work, and I was just sobbing, you know, like, I don't know, if you've ever done this, but like, sometimes on the interstate, I'm just so like, turn off the radio, and I just cry. And I was sobbing, and I was like, What am I gonna do? And something in my head said to reach out to Scott Benner. Now, I know you're gonna think I'm crazy. But that is what something in my head said. It said, reach out to Scott Benner, he will help you. Now, I only listen to one of your podcasts. I follow juicebox on Facebook and stuff. But like I'm like, so then I started arguing with myself, and I'm like, he's not gonna help you. You are nobody. And like, you've listened to like, four of his podcasts, you know, like, and so, but they kept nagging at me. So I sent you a message on Facebook. And I said, Hey, I'm having a really hard time. And I think I have PTSD. Do you have any episodes? And you wrote me back? And you said, check out this episode. And it was like, okay, you know what brain I, I reached out to him and nothing happened. That's it. And then like, maybe two hours later, after I dismissed it, you messaged me back and you said, Don't worry, it gets easier. And that was probably your biggest mistake. Because then I unleashed. It's so hard. My son is two or no at the time he was yeah, no, he was still two, I think I was like, He's two and, and I don't know what I'm doing. And I just want the best life for him. And so of course, you being Scott, you were like, send me a graph. So I sent you a graph and you're immediately you're like, your Basal weak, you're not doing a long enough. Pre-Bolus. And, and then you said, you know, do you want me to follow him for a couple of weeks, I can help you. And I was just like, oh, the sky is opened. And I was like, yes, yes. I would like that.

Scott Benner 37:49
Don't make me sound too philanthropic. Because you also told me you're using Omnipod. Five and a trial, right?

Jaime 37:55
Yeah.

Scott Benner 37:57
So I was like, Oh, I would love to see how this works.

Jaime 38:00
Yeah, yeah, actually, you're right. Because you had said like, your Basal is too weak. And I had said something like, Well, I can't control Basal, because he's in the Omnipod trial. Right. And you said, Okay, well, let's give this a go. I can help you. And I can also learn about the trial. Right? I think that is Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Not

Scott Benner 38:17
Not that I wouldn't have done otherwise. Like, there's such an interesting thing for people listening, because please do not send me 1000 messages today. But, but so when, when messages come, there's a randomness to whether I can answer or not. So I'm a real person, right? Like, I'm not writing here. And I have children in the home and all that stuff. And I have a wife who sometimes says, Are you helping these people instead of me? Like, you know, like, stuff like that? So if I see the message, and it coincides with my ability to answer, then then I can answer I sometimes see messages that I don't answer for weeks, or you know, more. Right, Yours must have just randomly come at a time that I was able to answer because because you could see what could happen. Like once somebody has the feeling of like, oh, I have a connection now. Then then the tap opens. And now I'm like, ooh, like when you send that message back on like, oh, geez, I shouldn't have answered. Like daily. I made a mistake unread. But But no, but but it's not that you don't want to it's it there becomes a time and then suddenly, I can't I don't want to give somebody like I like half assed attention. Right, like so if I'm gonna talk to you, I'm really gonna talk to you and if I'm not if I can't, and I don't, I can't. So I was happy to do it. But I mean, honestly, the only part five part was really was intriguing to me. So

Jaime 39:47
yeah, so it worked for both of us, which was me It was chaotic relationship.

Scott Benner 39:51
I remember standing out front of my house at one point with headphones on like talking to you for a while like trying to get something straightened out. So so we made some small adjustments. I don't remember what they were anymore. And and I think just probably reinforced ideas about when to use insulin and stuff like that. Is that how you remember it?

Jaime 40:11
You gave me the power to give insulin when he needed it like you gave me, you let me know like you don't have to wait two hours. Like if your son is 150 double arrows up like you can give it you can Bolus him like that's okay. And I knew that that was okay from listening to the podcast, but like having you there watching his numbers like for the first few days, you literally would text me and say, let I remember you said like, let me know when you give it food. And I was like, this is a person. You're like, this is how my mind works. And you're like, let me know when you input food. And so you know, you just kind of like I copied what you did, basically, for the first two days, you know, like you gave it to you basically walked me through it. And then I just copied what you did. And it's worked ever since.

Scott Benner 41:01
Yeah, I'm glad it's the, the tools are really important. The steps are super important understanding why it's important, but the timing of it is hard to teach. And so what I've found is that if people watch it happen, they can mimic it later. And then eventually a percent. But yes, and then eventually it becomes like now you you're not doing things without understanding why anymore

Jaime 41:24
100% It's good. You know, what else is it gave me like it was it? You showed me how to do it so that it was less of a I have to think about this all the time. Like I just know what to do. And I do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's no, it's no longer like, what am I going to do? Do I give it Do I not like, you know, so.

Scott Benner 41:40
So even on an algorithm people should understand, and I've never seen on the pod five work in person. I've never used it not so far. I think I will soon, but I haven't so far other than this interaction with you. But it's still Pre-Bolus thing is still a thing. When you're on

Jaime 41:59
100% Yeah, it doesn't work for food. It's, you know, it's not, you know, you're still using, you know, Novolog Humalog. You know, it's still, so it takes a while and it doesn't know when you're eating. Honestly, what I've told people in the diabetes community is, it is a lifesaver for sleeping at night. Like I mean, the only complaint I have about it at night is that the lowest they're letting us set it for the toddlers is 110. And I would really love my son to coast at 7580 at night. But I'm not complaining because you know, there were nights where we were up four or five times a night. We never have to get up at night anymore. I mean, he coast 110 the entire night.

Scott Benner 42:38
Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm assuming and I'm hoping that. So listen, I don't know about like, let's make sure we're not doing anything wrong here. Are you allowed to talk about this?

Jaime 42:49
I am allowed to talk about it. I'm not allowed to show pictures for some reason I specifically asked and they said just don't show any pictures. Really like the device?

Scott Benner 42:56
You said to them? I'm gonna go on a podcast and talk about this. No, no, no. Okay,

Jaime 43:00
first I get to trial. I said my allowed, like, what are the rules surrounding discussing it? And they said, you can tell people he's on it, you can tell them about it, but do not show any pictures? And I said, Okay, all right.

Scott Benner 43:10
Well, then if that's the direction you got, let's keep talking. So. So I have some questions about it. That I really don't know the answers to. Does it learn?

Unknown Speaker 43:23
It does?

Scott Benner 43:24
Yeah. How does that work? Yep.

Jaime 43:26
So, um, it? Once you Okay, where do I want to start with this. So when you first put like it on, it's, you know, it's just the, the, the dash. And when you first put it on, it starts to you have to input what you think the Basal rate shock for your child should be or yourself if you're diabetic. And then it makes adjustments based on the history of, you know, like, Okay, you're going low this time of day, we're going to back off on insulin a little bit. You're going high, we're going to up your Basal this. So every hour is a different Basal that it gives you based on its memory and the history of what your numbers have looked like,

Scott Benner 44:12
Wow. That's pretty amazing. And that works out. Yes.

Jaime 44:16
It works out at night during the day. I don't during the day. I mean, I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this. I don't I don't know that I see too much difference because food because there's so many factors. There's excitement, there's food, there's exercise, you know, it can't know about can't learn, right?

Scott Benner 44:33
It also can't know Right? Like if you're going to get super excited out of nowhere. It doesn't know that's right to happen exact time for that which is which is also illustrating why the Pre-Bolus thing still important. You have to you're basically telling it look, I'm gonna eat in 20 minutes. So you know, or whatever your Pre-Bolus is. And so if you could tell it, hey, look, I'm gonna get super excited in 20 minutes, my blood sugar's gonna jump up, then right? It might be able to help but that's always gonna be A limitation of these things is just the unpredictability of your life. So what do you do in that situation? If if like adrenaline hits or something you just Bolus?

Jaime 45:09
Yeah, you have to Bolus you have to Bolus or you know if adrenaline hits. And it's normally a time when he's higher, you have to in the system gives you much you have to juice or, you know, give a glucose tab.

Scott Benner 45:21
So you could you can still see lows sometimes during the day when you're being aggressive with other blood sugars.

Jaime 45:27
100%.

Unknown Speaker 45:28
Okay. All right. Yes.

Scott Benner 45:32
What's the what's the stability, the time and range like?

Jaime 45:38
So, I mean, I, so our timing ranges around like 90%. But you have to keep in mind that like, even before the development, our timing range was like, 80%. You know what I mean? What is your I think? What is our range of time right now?

Scott Benner 45:56
Yeah, what's the range? You're looking at? Like, what's the low and the high of the range? Oh,

Jaime 46:00
this is how they set it is 180. Okay, so if I say so 70 to 180. And we in the other thing, too, is we may let him set up if he's 68. coasting. I'm not giving him glucose. Counting that is low, you know?

Scott Benner 46:15
Yeah. And something like a 68. That kind of rises back up again. Does it? Does the the algorithm I assume in that situation takes away Basal together to come back out?

Jaime 46:25
It does. It's always trying to get it to 110?

Scott Benner 46:28
Does it make all of its decisions with Basal there's no Bolus thing? Like auto balls?

Jaime 46:34
No. So So if if the if it senses that you're going hot, you know, if your blood sugar is rising? If your blood sugar is rising, then it will give extra Basal.

Scott Benner 46:49
Is there a cap on how much Basal can give? Like, if, if, let me give you an example. So your son's Basal is point five an hour? Can it go to one an hour? Can it go to 1.5? Or does it only go a percentage of the point five.

Jaime 47:03
And you have to set the cap. So the endo sets the camp in this in the trial and

Scott Benner 47:08
the trial way too, I set the cap. I know, right? It's not gonna be

Jaime 47:12
well, and I already told my 30 till the end, no, I said, you know, adults are not gonna want that maybe toddlers will want this at 110. But like, if I was a diabetic, I would not be happy with 110 being like, the goal, you know what I mean? You gotta you gotta lower it.

Scott Benner 47:26
So my expectation is, and this is based on nothing that anyone has said to me, that you have to when you're trying to get something through the FDA, you have to pick a target that you'd know, for certain you can accomplish, or you're not going to get your product to market. So the hope is, and by the way, any opportunity I have behind the scenes to talk to people is that they should continue testing with lower targets and get those to us. Because Because I I believe what you're saying, you know, I'm I'm, I'm gonna end up saying this 1000 times this year, the year of the algorithm, this is gonna end up being. But the truth is, is that if I can't set a lower target, I might not want this thing, but exactly for countless, and I do mean countless hundreds of 1000s, if not over a million people living in the United States with diabetes, who are not listening to this podcast, who are not having great success, slapping an omni pod five on them, getting the settings right, teaching them to Pre-Bolus changes their life in an immeasurable way, you know, for the much better not just for the little bit better. And so there's a difference between people who want 7580 overnight and stable, and people who are just going to be like, do you know my a one see a 6.3? Do you know how amazing that is? To me, like, like, they'll live their whole life in a much better way because of that. So So you have to continue to see this stuff as progression. Like, it's not like the best version of this thing that's ever going to exist isn't arriving soon. It's the first version of it that's arriving soon. And you have to you have to be patient with that. And and, and that's I'm not saying that because they're their sponsor. I'm saying that because I think my daughter might end up using it. And that's how I'm gonna have to see it. So

Jaime 49:15
yeah, I mean, I totally agree. And like I said, like, I I wouldn't give it up. Like, you'd have to pry it out of my like, cold dead hands. Yeah. Because it has changed my life overnight.

Scott Benner 49:28
Wow. That's really cool. So what's the learning curve on it? Like if you didn't meet me, you? But you were in a tough situation, because you said tell people a little bit about that. You were in the trial, where you weren't supposed to be touching things. But you couldn't stop yourself. By the way, Jamie. I'm remembering our conversations more and more. I remember by the time we were done. It's funny. I didn't know about the OCD. But I thought if Jamie's husband goes in my wife goes, I'll call Jamie like, you were cool. You had like a nice vibe about you, you know what I mean? So and we could probably definitely make a baby with diabetes if we needed to. So but but no, I just I remember really enjoying talking to you. And and at the time, I recall saying like, Well, I think this needs to be more and you're like, I'm not allowed to touch this stuff. So tell people about what it's like being in a trial first.

Jaime 50:22
So you have very little control, like your that, you know, I mean, and for good reason, you know, they're trying to, you know, test out these devices or whatever you're in the trial for, and they need you to do what they tell you to do. But for me, I wanted, I don't want to say I want it better, but I wanted to, I wanted more in, you know, normal, normal blood glucose numbers for my son. And so they're telling me, You can't do this. And I'm saying, Well, yes, I am going to do this. And my husband was super worried, you know, again, gritting his teeth, like you're going to get us kicked out of this trial. And I'm like, Mark, I said, I don't honestly like if I have to choose between Scott Benner in the trial, I'm choosing Scott Benner. I said, I not, I have to, I have to learn what I need to do to get my son in the best place where he can be health wise. And as much as I love like this horizon, this will be available to us within a couple years, you know, we can get it that. And so there were a couple of like, knock down drag out fights that we had when they endos office, which I'm not going to name obviously, about, about going about what listing and changing the Basal rates because you can, you can go in and change it, and then the system thinks, Okay, we need more, you know, what I mean? And tightening carb ratios. And, and it was hard there, there was a lot of like, push and pull for a while. Since I think basically what happened is our endo just kind of gave up on us and said, Okay, well, yeah, they're like, alright, well, your last cause.

Scott Benner 52:04
They're just gonna do it. So that's interesting for people to know you're in a trial, but there's not some like, kingdom of Omnipod up on the hill, where you go, they run the trials through doctors offices. So the, the trial coordinator gives specific instructions to the offices and the offices need to follow them. And by the way, the offices are probably being compensated for being part of the trial. So they have a large reason why they want to do the right thing. But you stayed on the product, and started making adjustments?

Jaime 52:34
Yes, I did. And I think that they, I think a big draw for them with my family was they knew that my husband and I were very invested in our son's health. And they knew that we were like, on the ball, like, we were going to show up to the appointments, we were going to make sure we did the you know what I mean? Like, we were we were invested. And so, you know, I think that, that, you know, patients like that are are not always the case. So I think that that's what saved us.

Scott Benner 53:01
Well, well. So what happened, what happens after you make the adjustments? And I know if I'm remembering, right, like it was Basal, and where we did the insulin, a carb change to, or No.

Jaime 53:15
Um, so after I made the adjustments, we changed the Basal and we changed the insulin to carb. And they called me like, the next day, and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? Like we hopped on today, and we saw and like he had had, like, a minor low, and they're like, this is why you can't do that. Like, he can't have these lows, you know, and, and I said, you know, we're figuring things out, like, give me a couple days, you know, and, you know, it's not going to be perfect right away. And, and they're like, No, we'd really rather you just stick to, to how we told you to do it. And I was like, Well, yeah, I'm really not gonna do that. But thank you for the suggestion.

Scott Benner 53:53
It's hard. I'm not a deity. I can't just look at it and go, like, make this that make this that okay, it's perfect. Like, you have to see it happen a little bit. And then you have to go, Okay, let's move this again. And, and like lengthen or shorten your Pre-Bolus 's, and things like that. Just kind of watch it happen a little bit before you can. I mean, there have been times where I've gotten it the first time. And people are like, you're amazing. I'm like, huh, hold on. That was lucky.

Unknown Speaker 54:18
Though, give me too much credit for that.

Jaime 54:20
Yeah, I mean, we, there were a couple of times you're like okay, yeah, we we messed that up. Like, I think we need to change this when he has peanut butter toast next time. Or know what I mean? Like you were figuring it out.

Scott Benner 54:30
Right. Well, so it so it comes together. i It wasn't too long, right? Maybe we spoke for a week or two.

Jaime 54:38
Yeah, we I think we talked for two weeks and you followed him one more week after that just to make sure I was doing like a good job. Okay. Okay. Like we didn't talk like I made the decisions and like every once in a while you text me and be like, What are you doing? And I be like, I'm right on top of that.

Scott Benner 54:58
Well, I really I Like I said, I found it easy to talk to you, which I guess no, I'm saying, nobody else does just me.

Jaime 55:07
I'm really good at hiding it.

Scott Benner 55:11
Well, that's interesting. Do you? Do you have to do that? Like, is there? Do you find that there's a part of your personality? You kind of have to keep yourself?

Jaime 55:18
Yeah, of course, like, I'm a functioning, you know, member of society, I have a job. And, you know, I have a family. And so, like, there's certain people that like, I feel like safe to like, unleash it on. And I think that that is what happened that day was like, we started to like, talk more. And that's when I unleashed it on you about gray being like, Oh, my God. And then you kind of were like, listen, I think he's fine. I think you're crazy. You were like, go have a glass of wine. Yeah. And I was like, Alright, he's not gonna support my OCD. I'm gonna have to go to

Scott Benner 55:51
Yeah, I don't usually recommend drinking to people. But you didn't come off a little like, like, totally well.

Jaime 56:00
Yeah, I mean, you said it in jest, obviously. But you basically were like, your son is fine. You know, like, move on with your day. I got stuff to do. Which is actually the best way the best way you could have dealt with it. You know, I do get a lot of into it.

Scott Benner 56:14
Yeah, I get a lot of messages thanking me for being matter of fact. Yeah, I don't know, I'm not about you. Listen, you have to understand, I'm not doing that on purpose. Like, it's just, it's just the way I guess whatever happened in your life that kind of pushed you in your direction. I mean, something obviously happened to mine, I always just felt like, there's a lot of things that could go wrong. I don't have time to dwell on any of them. Because we need to keep moving. I don't want to I don't want the ground to collapse under my feet. Like I want to keep moving forward. And, and I just, I grew up like that, like a lot of stuff went wrong in my life when I was growing up. And I read your book. Yeah. Right. And then thank you very much. And then that's so meaningful. I don't know why that feels meaningful. Like, people have listened to way more words come out of my mouth on this podcast, and I would ever be able to write down somewhere. But I think it's because I spent six months sitting at a desk. It makes it feel nice. And I also, when I started writing that book, I had no idea if I could actually do it or not. So

Jaime 57:16
Oh, yeah. I mean, your book was amazing. Like, I literally read it in like two nights. I couldn't put it down. Oh, if

Scott Benner 57:21
anyone's listening who's a publisher? I think my publisher went out of business, if you know how to get the rights to my book, so we can keep printing it. Scott

Jaime 57:29
actually did buy it from like, a used book site. Yeah, I was happy. I found it.

Scott Benner 57:33
Yeah. Email me if you know how to fix that. Because apparently, all I have to do is request the the manuscript be made given to me. That'll happen. And then But then I'd have to publish it. I don't know. Help me if you're out there. Anyway, it's a good book. I really appreciate it. You know, I I missed 53 days of my senior year of my high school, right? Yes, I

Jaime 57:57
read. I read it. The Old Republic, a very interesting life,

Scott Benner 58:01
and the only published author of that's ever come out of my eyes. Go to school kids. It's really important. Okay, now. Okay, so we're going over everything. It sounds like it's going really well right now, like, so. Are you still in the trial? Or is the trial over?

Jaime 58:20
It just keeps getting extended? I think that they're going to I'm hoping that they just extend it till it's released.

Scott Benner 58:28
More and more data to be over. Yeah. So they just need data. Yeah, you're using it for free basically, right?

Jaime 58:35
Yeah. Well, you know, everything is free except for the insulin. We stuffed it by your own insulin but all the pods all the what did they call the the transmitters, the sensors? Everything is free? Yeah.

Scott Benner 58:48
Oh, you get the Dexcom and the Omni pod for free for being in the trial.

Unknown Speaker 58:52
You do? Well, look at Yeah,

Jaime 58:55
except for well, except for the fact that we have like amazing insurance through my husband's work. It was free anyway. Like, we didn't pay anything. We had no deductible.

Scott Benner 59:04
No big win free. Yeah. You should have said, I'll keep using my insurance. Send me a couple G's.

Jaime 59:10
I know, right? But I've been what I don't know if I can say this and edit it out. If I can't. I've been giving supplies to people that can't afford them. Because I'm like, I'm not because they expire. So I'm like, you know, we have our little stock but I'm not letting these go to waste. You know,

Scott Benner 59:24
well, you're allowed to say whatever you want. I don't think the police are gonna come for you. But yeah, excuse me, I just made myself cough for some reason.

Jaime 59:33
I don't sell it. I just give it because it's like and I do the same with insulin, we get so much insulin and it's like, you know, it's sinful, how much you know, insulin we have that we would throw away and people are dying because they donate

Scott Benner 59:45
it, you know, to people. Yeah, that's very nice. I don't think that that is uncommon in the diabetes community. So I don't either if you end up in diabetes, if you end up in diabetes jail over this, I guess you have not really said your last name. So it doesn't matter. You to bail me out. Oh, yeah, I'll come and get you. But if you start talking about your problems I'm going to leave. Deal. You make so much more sense to me now that we've had this conversation.

Jaime 1:00:13
I'm sure you do.

Scott Benner 1:00:15
Well, your husband's with you and all he hasn't left.

Jaime 1:00:19
No, he's a trooper. My family. My mom and dad and my family call him his name is Mark, they call him St. Mark.

Scott Benner 1:00:26
Yeah, you probably just throw a lot of sex at him when he looks upset.

Jaime 1:00:30
Well, probably more than I probably should do more. It's funny that that's how the type one diabetes, I have a lot of stress.

Scott Benner 1:00:37
The only thing I can think of in that situation, I'm like, what would make me go? She's high strung, but the kids look like her. And I like her. So we're gonna stick? No, no, not that. Not that you should bail on somebody for having trouble, obviously. But yeah, I'm just teasing.

Jaime 1:00:56
No, I know. I understand. So day to

Scott Benner 1:00:59
day, do you find yourself still worrying about your other child?

Jaime 1:01:04
It creeps in, but it's nowhere near what it used to be cool. Certainly. That's really great. I mean, how could it not? I would love if there you have a listener that says I never worry about that, you know, like, I want to talk to them. Like how?

Scott Benner 1:01:17
Yeah, I mean, I worry about it. So I don't think I, you know, if my children have any kind of problems, like it impacts me in like a turtle. I would say a couple of weeks, a couple of weeks ago, my son was going through a thing. And I started losing weight.

Jaime 1:01:35
Because that's what I do to stop eating.

Scott Benner 1:01:37
I was worried I stopped eating, like, like, stuff like that. So I don't get listen, if you can, if you can get through life without that happening to you, like good for you, but I'm adulation. Yeah, I'm too attached to these people. Like, I really want them to be okay, you know, in a way, and, you know, there's, I won't bring it up like a name. Because I'm not gonna pack it with details. But there's someone that, you know, in the diabetes community who's who's having a real medical issue now, right? Like, a really like, life threatening medical issue, it has nothing to do with diabetes, the person you know about, and you see their life online. And it's a dire situation. And it just, I mean, beyond the compassion that you can feel for that person. And you have those thoughts, like, How could that happen? And, you know, like, like, all this stuff, to me, the end of it is, in my mind is, well, it could happen, I guess, like, it's, it's incredibly unlikely. But it could, but it could, and, and I need to live like it's not going to, but not be unprepared for if something goes wrong, because things are going to go wrong. And you know, when you're living with autoimmune diseases, I think your odds of things going wrong and start going up. And isn't it? You know what I mean? Like, is everyone going to have like a crazy autoimmune disease that peep, you hear people on here talking about like, no, but it's gonna happen to one of you like the one of you right now is listening, who's not having another problem is going to wake up with celiac or a thyroid problem or something like that one day, and you need to have the wherewithal to be like, Okay, well, let's learn about this, and figure this out, and then incorporate it and keep moving because there are no other options in my opinion, right. You know, sorry. But that's a if you've never struggled. The first struggle is tough. And if you pretend that's going to be the last struggle than the next one is going to be tough as well. Yeah. Is that make sense? Like, yes. You got to be like, prepared, vigilant, but not so much so that you're ruining your life. Right? You

Jaime 1:03:51
have to enjoy the life that you're living right now. And even after the next bad thing comes, you know, yeah, otherwise, what's the point? But you

Scott Benner 1:03:57
can't be so Pollyanna that if something does happen, that it just runs you over. Like there's a middle ground in there somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm okay with it. And that's the wrong statement. I think I'm, what am I I think I'm able to be impacted by it. And then get up again, because I grew up in a way where things went wrong. Like, I used to worry about my kids like they they're growing up better than I did, like, there's times where you're like, Should I throw something in front of them so that like they have to climb over it, you know? But, but you know what, it turns out for most people, something's going to happen. So you'll get your speed bump, somewhere. Everybody gets something. Yeah, yeah, we were just talking about this on another episode recently. It's uh, it might not be health, it could be finances. It might not be finances. It might be bad family, like, you know,

Jaime 1:04:55
relationships. Yeah, writing a person, but I'm not gonna lie. I have thrown up that Hail Mary. to God like, please if there's gonna if somebody else in my family is gonna get it, please let it be me and not my second son, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you'll make those deals with like the universe like just give it to me.

Scott Benner 1:05:11
And and you're like I've done everything I can I'm gonna just say this out loud in

Jaime 1:05:17
after his like six vial of vitamin D oil, I'm like, Okay.

Scott Benner 1:05:22
Well, you also, you also open yourself up to things that aren't valuable when you start really reaching and being worried like, how do you know the difference between like when Dr. BENITO comes on it has I mean, I don't know if you've listed that thyroid episode, but it's it's a masterclass on thyroid. Again, right. And she's amazing. And she'll say things like, you could try this or, you know, if you're I forget like something about milk thistle if you're having a problem or something like that. And how do you know the difference between someone who knows what they're talking about saying something and a friend of yours on Facebook? who's like, if you take the strawberry essential oil and mix it with? You know what I mean? Your hair will grow better. Like, like, I like that. How do you know where the line is? And by the way, if you're getting some benefit from essential oils, if your life was better, because them I ain't judging you. I'm just saying, if if the mint and the strawberry made my hair grow, then we'd all have really great hair. Because, right, that would be a thing that would be unimpeachable. In the world. You just be like, Oh my God. Yeah. So like, how do you find the middle? Like, how do you stop yourself from going like, I'm gonna eat cinnamon today to keep my blood sugar? Like that kind of stuff?

Jaime 1:06:34
Yeah, I mean, I don't. I don't know the answer to that. You just have to do what feels right.

Scott Benner 1:06:40
And he's like, listen, when I hear stuff like that I sent him.

Jaime 1:06:44
No, actually, like, I feel really bad. Because like somebody on a website once posted, like, has anyone ever tried like living your life without insulin? And just like remaining on diet and herbs? And I just, like wrote a comment with like, an eye roll. I was having a particularly bad day. And I was like, Are you freaking kidding me? And then like, like, the next day, I felt bad, because then I was like, Why would you lie when I have just said, like, no, that doesn't work. You know what I mean? Like, those type of people really irritate me. Well, on certain days, they irritate you. Right? Other days, I could probably be a little more compassionate. I wonder

Scott Benner 1:07:16
if you were more centered? I think that's a nice way to say it. Do you think you would intersect with those people differently? Oh, 100%.

Jaime 1:07:25
Yeah, cuz there are days that I am really centered in on like, you know, like, you know, insulin is a hormone and, you know, herbs don't, you know, replace hormones, you know, but like that day, I was just like, really, really, really? Okay.

Scott Benner 1:07:40
I think that it's pretty obvious. When you're online, and you see people interacting. It's, it's people who aren't common side or centered, or I don't know what the word is exactly. Like, like, peaceful, maybe you can see it in their interactions.

Jaime 1:07:59
Yeah, it's more about them than anyone else.

Scott Benner 1:08:02
There's a lot of different ways. Like just there's a, there's, um, they're irritated, you can tell they're irritated, or they have a burning desire to make sure that the thing they know, becomes the thing, you know, or something like that. And I've seen people because, because the Facebook page for the for the podcast is is really uncommon online. Yeah. People are very nice. Yeah. And so I've seen people start off, great, say something kind of crappy to somebody wants, and, like, I don't block people and stuff like that, like, I listened. I thought, like four or five people in my life, but I'll send, like, I'll just answer like, I don't send messages like I answer in front of everybody. I'm like, yo, what are you doing? Like, right? Like, why would you say that? Like she's asking for help? You know, like, you're gonna come through with your snarky idea here. Like, do you think this is the time for that? You know, and then you'll get like, a thoughtful response. 1012 hours later, like, Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't know why I did that. And I just think you just got to treat each other like adults. But my greater point is, if you're that person, you, you might not see it while you're doing it, you know, and know, and how do you know unless you go back later, and Facebook doesn't. Social media in general doesn't allow for back scrolling. Like, it's just it's constantly rolling on, you know, so you don't even get to learn but you know, and then there's the other side of it. Like some people are just way too touchy. You say something that's completely reasonable. And they're like, I can't believe you said that. It hurts my sensibility about whatever and you're like, Oh, my God, like come on. Like like so there's got to be a balance in there of like kindness and, and thick skin at the same time. You're talking about difficult things like somebody might have an idea that's the best I can always see is that sometimes there's a there's an adult type one who's had a rough go and apparent they'll say something and they'll be like, I can't believe you're doing that to them or why just stick their finger that many times like, don't be people who hear you say how much you tested your son who doesn't have diabetes, and they'll be mortified by it.

Jaime 1:10:11
But, but I'm mortified by it. No, no, I

Scott Benner 1:10:14
understand. Yeah. Well, Jamie, you're terrific. Seriously.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:20
I am scratching you owe me about you.

Scott Benner 1:10:22
Thank you. I am scratching you off. If my wife dies and her husband dies list, but

Jaime 1:10:28
come on. Out the diabetic children we could make

Scott Benner 1:10:33
I know right now, I'm probably incredibly older than you so don't even worry about. Yeah, you'd be like, Ah, sorry, old man. I like the place on the blood sugar thing. But

Unknown Speaker 1:10:45
boy here, yeah. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:10:47
I'm being funny. I assume if we met in person you'd like, huh? No, thank you.

Jaime 1:10:54
No way. Like I told my husband, I'm like, the next time Scott talks, we're going I don't care where it is, like, I need to give that man a hug. And I am not a huggy person. But like I've told you before, you have changed my family life. And it's huge. And I don't think you realize it, I don't think you realize, like the impact that you have. I know you. You have Yes, you have an impact on the diabetes community, like Sure. But like individually, like you have to recognize how many people's lives that you've changed. It's huge. Like what you're doing is amazing.

Scott Benner 1:11:23
I thank you very much for saying that. That is I do. So the understand academically I do understand. But I get your I take your point. And I believe you're right. It's it's yeah, it would probably be I think it would be overwhelming if I actually, it would be that like that.

Jaime 1:11:42
It would even could comprehend the amount you know that you've helped people. It would be

Scott Benner 1:11:47
um, I don't know what I would do. Like I'd probably I'd probably get in the car and on the highway and cry like you just said, which when you said I was like I've never done that before. I one time I've ever cried the car. I've had accidents where I haven't cried.

Jaime 1:12:00
Like, yeah, you know, that thing everyone does. You're like,

Scott Benner 1:12:04
it happened to me when I dropped my son off at college. Oh, yeah. But it wasn't even bawling. Like the water just ran out of my eyes. I wasn't like, you know, the part of the like, the, like that part. Yeah, nothing. I was completely stoic. And, and water just ran out of my eyes for 45 minutes.

Jaime 1:12:22
Well, if you need me to teach you about the gross, ugly cry, I'll teach you.

Scott Benner 1:12:27
I think I got there pretty close in the beginning of diabetes, but I'm doing better. And but don't worry if I need it. I'll be able to whip it out again. I

Unknown Speaker 1:12:36
think I Yeah. And you know who to call? Yeah. 100%.

Scott Benner 1:12:40
Is there anything that we didn't talk about that we should have?

Jaime 1:12:44
Um, I don't think so. I think when I came in, I wanted to make sure that if there's other, I haven't heard an episode that you've done about a mom or a dad that had the PTSD and like going through it, and I, so I wanted to like, I wanted that. And then like I knew the trial was probably going to be a point of interest. So you're good. Yeah, I think we're good. Scott.

Scott Benner 1:13:04
This was terrific. I really appreciate it. I know that when we get on at first I'm like, I'm not 100% sure what we're going to talk about, is that the fleeting

Unknown Speaker 1:13:12
I have no way I

Jaime 1:13:13
knew you were gonna do that, because I've heard you do it to people before. So you understand. I was like,

Scott Benner 1:13:18
yeah, yeah, you understand that? Once we start talking? I have a complete recollection of our interaction. Yeah. But yeah. If you just said to me, Hey, it's Jamie. I'd be like, Jamie, I think that's the, because that's how it goes through my it's funny that you said at one point I texted like, it's kind of like the way I talked about using the and some while we're texting is kind of cold. But I also don't want there to be confusion. Also, when you start talking to people, they start explaining, and I don't really need that, like, I don't need all

Jaime 1:13:45
right, like you can't have you can't have 8 million best friends. Yeah, right.

Scott Benner 1:13:48
Like, I just need to know the nuts and bolts of what's going on here. I actually helped a lady with a three year old this week. And in Kendall, I hope she's doing well. And. And at the end, I said to her, I was like I said, we were done. And I was like, Hey, you were very good at this. Thank you. And she said, Yeah, I've heard you talk about on the podcast, I did not want to overwhelm with details that you didn't need. Because there's a moment when we start right ask a lot of yes or no questions. And when and if we're texting or even on the phone, I'll ask the question. And if the answer comes back, bigger than yes or no, I'm like, No, shut up. Like, don't tell me your theories. Right now. I just I'm compiling data, like after I compile my data, then we'll chat you know.

Jaime 1:14:35
Yeah, and I got that sense for one part of my personality is I'm very good at reading people. And I got that sense from you. And I'm like, You know what, like, I'm going to do whatever this man needs me to do that he

Unknown Speaker 1:14:43
will help me so

Scott Benner 1:14:45
we're super kind afterwards like I've never I've never received so many kind notes and gestures. Like as I have from you like you tried to send me I had to stop you from saying things right?

Jaime 1:14:56
Yes, you did. You did it. My husband was on board to like You changed our lives and like, I don't take that's not a small thing for me. You know what I mean? Like, no, yeah, absolutely. And I tried, like, I'm not a big poster on social media, but I go into juice box and I post his graphs every so often. I don't want to be like a bragger. But I want people to understand like, this is life changing. You need to listen to this.

Scott Benner 1:15:16
I'm glad but I mean, you were physically going to send me like supplies like, yes. And I

Jaime 1:15:22
and then you were, and then you were like, You're crazy.

Scott Benner 1:15:25
Can I be honest with you? Yeah. So many people do that. That at this point, like sometimes I look around my house and I'm like, I don't I don't want I don't need this. Like, I don't know what except for

Jaime 1:15:37
you know, what his I looked up restaurants like, I'm like a huge creeper. And like, I went to your Facebook page and like, Okay, this is the town he lives in. I'm going to try to find like a restaurant gift certificate, because so he can take his family out to dinner. You know, because of how much time you spent with me that time you could have spent with your family. You know what I mean? And like, go out to dinner on me. And you were like, No, like really? Like, please do not.

Scott Benner 1:15:59
Because it's hard to get makes me i I swung through a pendant. I don't like Panera Bread, but somebody in my family wanted it and I rolled through the drive thru. And I said to my wife, I'm like, I have a gift card for this. And she goes, she goes what? I said, I have a digital gift card for this. And she said, You don't come here. And I was like, I was helping a lady on the phone one day. And we got done. And she's like, let me buy your lunch. I was like, please don't. The next thing I know I get this $25 gift card to Panera Bread, like through my email. And I was like, I Please don't I so I've had it for like a year. And then when I used it, I was like, You don't understand, like, it'll start making me feel bad. Like, like you said, Yeah, I'll get I'll have the $25 gift card and I won't use it and I'll start feeling badly about like sudden cash. You know? No, I'm just kidding. Like, Mike, Mike now heard his voice and knows I'm talking about him. Mike sends me barbecue supplies. That's that stuff I really like. But, but, but. But if he sends like a like a flavor, and I don't like it, then I feel I feel bad then. And I can't. I don't want you guys to send me stuff for the same reason I didn't want a dog. It's not because I don't want a dog. And it's not because I don't want to be responsible for a dog. It's because it everyday I don't live up to my responsibility. I feel bad about it. Right? Like, I don't know what's wrong with me. Maybe I need some eye movement therapy or, you know, a time machine to go back and find some people who would have been nicer to me or whatever. But, but I can't deal. I can't take too much of that. Like I but what

Jaime 1:17:33
I told you before was you need to understand and look at me lecturing you that people want to reciprocate. And it's not a friendship, but it's a it's a relationship. You know what I mean? And people want to feel like they're, they're showing their appreciation. So

Scott Benner 1:17:49
what I did, because you're not the only person who Badger's me is that there's one person in particular that was very helpful explaining that to me privately. And there's probably me No, just kidding. It actually wasn't. I know who it was. And she made the point to me that, that it's something people need to do, and that it's yeah, it's kind for you to let them do it.

Jaime 1:18:15
Yeah, I never gonna say you need to be more gracious about it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:18:19
Well, I feel like I am being gracious by telling you don't worry about it. But what I didn't realize was that then you are left with an incomplete feeling.

Jaime 1:18:26
Yes. And it's not so much about you as it is about your listeners.

Scott Benner 1:18:29
So I didn't know. So that's a weird leap to make in your head. Because the the extension of that is you're going to send me something or you're going to give me money. And, and it took me a long time to figure out that that meant, like closure for you. Like you felt like a loop was closed. And so I started a buy me a coffee site, so Oh, good. Yeah. And that's been really,

Jaime 1:18:56
why has that not been like advertised? What am I gonna do? I'll buy you a coffee every day.

Scott Benner 1:19:01
It's a hard thing to do like to say, hey, here's my buy me a coffee link. Why don't you send me some money? It's a very weird thing to say,

Jaime 1:19:08
why don't you text me or email me the link and I'm going to post it on juice box. Hey, everyone, we love Scott.

Scott Benner 1:19:14
So like, two weeks ago for my birthday. Someone made a post like that and said, Hey, let's everybody buy Scott a cup of coffee for his birthday. Oh, I missed and by the time it was over. Like we started having, like, I started seeing the money, like move up and I was like, What am I gonna do about now? Now I feel bad. Like, right and it's, it's moving up. And I said to people, like they're like, somebody asked what I was gonna do with it. And I said, You know what, I? I have a really crappy chair that I make the podcast and like I yeah, maybe I should buy a great chair. So I am sitting now in a really nice, super comfortable or supportive, very expensive chair that was completely paid for by people who had that feeling. And yeah, I am very comfortable with that like, and maybe because they're smaller amounts. Like, do you mean like people put in five bucks 10 bucks a couple, I have to be honest with you, I sometimes it would dig in front of me. And it would be like somebody bought you 10 cups of coffee or, you know, became a member of the site, and they're gonna send money every month. And I'm like, I really just, I never expected anyone would do that. I just thought I'd set it off. And then I'd make it like available and like here, you know, if you feel this, like I thought I would tell a couple people. And then somebody posted it on their own, and it just exploded. So I'm so

Jaime 1:20:27
glad that you finally like accepted that because that was my one bone I had with you is like really? Like, I need to show my appreciation. Like that's the way American society works.

Scott Benner 1:20:39
I mean, you're irritating at the end. I remember. I know. But in a really lovely way.

Jaime 1:20:46
I'm gonna go send you a million cups of coffee. So they're,

Scott Benner 1:20:49
well they're five bucks apiece, so be careful what you promised. And anyway, now that we've gone all through this thing. Yeah, now I feel like I'll be a douche. If I don't just say it. It's a I think it's it's so funny that I really don't know. Let me look real quick. Oh, that's hilarious. Of course. It's that it's buy me a coffee.com forward slash juice box. And I have started putting the link in the show notes. I figured people could just find it without asking me and that way I wouldn't have to feel badly every time somebody asks

Jaime 1:21:22
buy me a coffee.com forward slash juice box guy.

Scott Benner 1:21:25
That's it. So anyway, it's not the point of all this. The point of all this is that you have obsessive thoughts and Omnipod five looks like it's gonna work great for people. So yeah, so thank you very much for doing this.

Jaime 1:21:38
Yeah, absolutely. I had an amazing time

Scott Benner 1:21:50
just in case you thought I was kidding back there a second ago. I did not get that link right. It's actually buy me a coffee.com Ford slash Juicebox Podcast. I knew I didn't know it when I said I didn't know it. I want to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast get over there. Now at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Get yourself an accurate meter. It's simple to do and it's a it's a damn fine thing you can do for yourself there be healthy like Don't you want to make good decisions with your insulin and carbs? Step one is to know what your blood sugar actually is.

If you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please share it with a friend or someone else who you think might enjoy it. Like for example, your endocrinologist, nurse practitioner, lady across the street person you see in traffic. Anybody really honestly, I'm just looking for you to share the show. But more specifically with people who have type one, type two use insulin, doctors, pharmacists, you know those types of people. Those people, those types. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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