Scott Benner 11/24/21 Scott Benner 11/24/21

#583 Almond Joy Has Nuts

Bonnie is the mother of an 11 year old type 1 daughter.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 583 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today, I'll be speaking with a parent of a young child that has type one diabetes, and her name is Bonnie, you're going to like Bonnie, why do I say that? Because I liked Bonnie, and you like the podcast. So, I mean, it stands to reason. The podcast is just a reflection of my sensibility. And if you enjoy it, and I enjoyed that, you understand that. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Were becoming bold with insulin. Have you been staring at that a one C and that variability and thinking I gotta do something, but I don't know what to do? Well, if you have, I would try the diabetes pro tip episodes from the Juicebox Podcast. They begin at episode 220. And they can be found your podcast player. If you're looking for a concurrent list of them, head over to diabetes pro tip.com to check them out. They are always free just like the entire podcast is you don't have to follow it like a class you can do it at your own time. I think things might just go your way if you check it out. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, please check them out at touched by type one.org or on their Instagram and Facebook pages. The podcast is also sponsored by just a really long pause. That pause. That was me trying to decide if I would put a G voc ad here or trial that's out here. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. I guess you figured out I decided to use G voc. That's pretty much it. Actually. There's nothing left on the ad front just to thank the sponsors links in the podcast player. Links at juicebox podcast.com. All that stuff. Check them out support sponsor support the show you know the deal. Let's get started, shall we?

Bonnie 2:32
Hi, my name is Bonnie and I have three children. I have a son who's 17, a daughter who's 15. And a daughter who is 11. And Abby, my 11 year old is also my type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 2:47
When was Abby diagnosed?

Bonnie 2:50
She was diagnosed two weeks shy of her ninth birthday. So we've been at this for about two and a half years.

Scott Benner 3:01
Is there any other type one in the family?

Bonnie 3:05
Not really. I mean, I think my husband has a cousin who was type one but they were never really close. So I don't know. For sure all that much about it. We have type two in the family but but really no type ones and no other autoimmune diseases that I'm aware of

Scott Benner 3:29
body You crack me up. So you don't So of the people who you're really familiar with in your family, no one has type one. Yes. There is type one in your husband's. Yes. Gotcha. That was great. I love the line you drew there you're like, well, not really because we don't know him. Right, right. Right. Okay, so there's there's a little bit but not a ton. No other stuff. You're saying no, thyroid celiac. Thanks. Okay. So fair to say a pretty big surprise.

Bonnie 3:59
Yes.

Scott Benner 4:00
Okay. What was what was your first indication?

Bonnie 4:06
I mean, I think it was a pretty, you know, common thing, we we started noticing that she was drinking a lot and needing to go to the bathroom a lot. And she was eating a lot. She's a she was a tiny, tiny little thing. And, you know, all of my children were, you know, really, they're small and skinny. So it was, you know, we're like, Oh, great. We have an eater now. You know, she was eating a ton, but she was still really, really skinny. But I think it was definitely you know, the, the drinking and the peeing and I feel like you know, like most people, you know, you try to rationalize that one out and you're like, oh, you know, she's, she's a girl and maybe she is you know, peeing a lot because, you know, maybe there's a urinary tract infection or, you know, you do lots of things in your mind to try to rationalize that one. I

Scott Benner 5:00
hear. So how long did the excitement about? We're no longer gonna be throwing away leftovers last until you gave in?

Bonnie 5:13
I mean, that's the thing, I don't really know how far back that that that behavior was, was going on. I do remember that, as it got, as we got closer to you know, getting her diagnosed. I mean, I guess it was in the back of my mind for a while, and I would, you know, mention it to my husband, and we're like, Ah, it's probably nothing. And then maybe like a week before we were, we were at an event with with friends. And she came over to me, and she gave me a kiss. And she said, I have to go to the bathroom. And I'm like, Okay, go to the bathroom. That's okay. And my friend said to me, she's like, why is she? Why is she doing that? I was like, I think she feels like, bad that she's always having to go to the bathroom. And I was and I said to her, I was like, you know, I think I'm a little worried. I was like, Maybe I should take her and, and then maybe a couple days later, my husband and I were really starting to get concerned. And the night before. We took her into the doctor, my husband, he, he's a doctor, and he's a dentist. I don't know why that would make him know this. But like, I guess he knew about ketones. And so we actually made her pee in a cup. And then he smelled it. And he's like, Oh, God. And he's like, this doesn't smell right. And I didn't know what he was talking about. I didn't know what ketones were. And he said, he said, he's like, I'm really worried. Now. He's like, do you think we should take her to like, urgent care? It was probably like nine o'clock at night. And I was like, You know what?

Scott Benner 7:00
You're the one smelling the pee, man. Tell me.

Bonnie 7:02
Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, and, and I tend to he, you know, even though he's a doctor, and he's, like, you know, more aware of like, certain things than I am like, when the kids are sick, or, you know, I'm the calm one. I'm like, No, let's be rational, let's not, you know, fly off the handle, you know? Like he was he was really nervous, which made me nervous. And so we ended up not taking her to an urgent care because Abby is a really, really, easygoing kid always has been, but her one vise is like, she does not like the doctor. And she freaked out every time I had to take her for anything. And she just so we didn't want to scare her by like, dragging her to like an urgent care at like nine o'clock at night or something. So I was like, You know what, I'm going to call the doctor. And I'm going to, for you know, first thing in the morning, I'm going to get her an appointment, and we're going to go check this out. So that's what we did. You know, I don't think my husband or I slept that night. Um, but first thing in the morning like, this is the other thing. She's also very, she doesn't complain about anything. If something's bothering her, like, you have to guess that because she is not one to complain. She's not one to not be happy. She's just that kind of kid. So that morning, my husband walked into her room while she was getting ready for school and he said that he saw her just sitting on the ground, brushing her hair, but it was almost like she was in like slow motion or something like she could barely like hold the brush or get it through her hair. She was kind of like in a daze like a

Scott Benner 8:57
horror movie. I'm sorry. Like a horror movie. Yeah,

Bonnie 9:01
yeah, it was Yeah. And again, that freaked us out so I

Scott Benner 9:07
juice did you switch to hey, maybe Abby's possessed.

Bonnie 9:11
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like if she were a different kind of kid, and maybe about like, we were like, it was it was you know, it was very scary. And so now that I'm saying and it sounds, you know, strange, but I took her to school because the doctor's office didn't open that early. And I got home and as soon as I got home, I called for an appointment. And they said that they could get her in at like, I don't know, like 930 or something. So I literally dropped her off at school. And then I called the school I was like, Look, I'm going to pick her up. I want to, you know, I want to take her to get checked. I think maybe she has a urinary tract infection. Now, I didn't really think that I was hoping that but I you know, that's what I told them. So I picked her up. And she was kind of like, Why are you picking me up? I was like, You know what, let's go take let's go to the doctor. Let's get let's just get this checked. You know, like, I want to make sure you know People one of the bathroom a lot, let's just say, I didn't want to freak her out or anything. So we get there. And, you know, they, it wasn't our normal doctor, I'd never met this doctor in the practice before. But you know, they had her piano cop and he comes in and he didn't say it right away. He. He said, You know, he was asking me had she been sick before? I forget maybe a few other questions. And then he said, Well, the good news is, you know, she doesn't have a urinary tract infection, said the bad news. Is there sugar in her urine? And, you know, right, then I kind of knew. And I think that they did a finger, a finger stick. And she must have been too high because it didn't register on their meter.

Scott Benner 10:47
Well, I have to let me jump in for a second. There's this one, kind of through line to the story you're telling that keeps popping in my head. And it's the first time I've thought about saying it this way. There's such an interesting vibe about people who have never really been through a medical issue before. And you just explained it perfectly. You know, and we always talk about it, like, oh, I wrote it off for you know, I was hoping it was this, like, when you've never lived with a medical thing, like that's your reaction. And it's pretty reasonable, because most things end up not being anything. And, and then you have something like type one in your life. And now moving forward. Every time someone looks weird, you're like, Yeah, figure out what that is right now. Right, right. You don't even like but it's how like, we found like, like thyroid issues with my kids so quickly, because you're just right away, like, did you notice that his temper didn't seem right there. You know, and you don't jump to like, he might be having a bad day. You're like, let's have his thyroid tested. Right? Yeah.

Bonnie 11:56
Right. It totally changes your outlook. But I mean, before that, you're right. Like, my husband always has a saying, especially like, I've heard him like talk to patients. He'd be like, you know, they'd be like, could it be this? Could it be that? Could it be that and he would always be like, don't look for the zebra, it's probably a horse, you know, like, and, and it makes total sense. And that's, you know, I tend to be the calm one, you know, in those situations, and I'm like, It's probably nothing, it's probably but you know, you're right. It's like after this, you know, you have a different outlook on things. Yeah,

Scott Benner 12:28
once in a while, you're like, you know, there's probably going to be another zebra, like, I'm gonna find it for now. Until we get to the point where we're Abby slow motion walking around her school when I pick her up? Just I don't know, for some reason, would you describe your brushing her hair? I imagine when you got to the school, you look down the hallway, and she was just like, in slow motion coming towards you.

Bonnie 12:50
I mean, yeah, I mean, it was it was crazy. And you know, you feel guilt. As a parent, you're like, how long was this going on? How did I not see it? You know, but he but I just explained to be a common thread.

Scott Benner 13:02
And we just explained how you didn't see it. Because prior to that, people would get sick, and they'd get better and you didn't have to do much about it. You only gave people medication if they were in pain or couldn't breathe, right? I mean, for three kids. That was how you did it. I imagine. It's how everyone does exactly. Well, it seems like it seems like you did a great. What was the time span of that? Do you believe from when you first started thinking? I don't know. Maybe she's got a yeast infection, too. I gotta take her to the doctor. Like what? What was that space?

Bonnie 13:35
I'm probably like, a week, but a week or so. But but probably for a few weeks before that. I was noticing her drinking a lot and peeing a lot. But kept it in the back of my head. Did they? I don't even know how I knew the symptoms of type one day. I really don't. I guess I must have learned that at some point or, but I really don't even know how I knew to associate that. Yeah, because I didn't Google. I didn't Google that.

Scott Benner 14:11
You're like, I am not checking on this. This seems.

Bonnie 14:13
Really I was I was like, almost like in denial. I was like, Nope. You know, because like when you do that, it makes it real.

Scott Benner 14:20
What about when the water bill came and it was so much higher from the flushing water bill went up 23% this month? That's very, that's insane. No, I hear you. I hear that. I don't want anything to be wrong. Especially one now that you know, to you're just sort of like you swallow hard and you're like, hey, look, I need you to go to the doctor. We're going to get this tested. Because I'm worried about this. And it's like, it feels like saying it out loud. Makes it real. But of course, that's silly. It just it just, it just makes it present.

Bonnie 14:53
Exactly. I mean, I didn't even tell the doctor that I would when I made the appointment. I didn't even say that I was worried about her being diabetic. I said, you know, maybe she has a urinary tract infection. Can we check that?

Scott Benner 15:03
Yeah. So I get that. I also want to say that, that's, that's a good idea generally, like, if you have a, if you have a very good feeling about what something might be, you don't want to lead the doctor to it. Right? You want to let them find it. In case you're wrong, you don't want to you don't want them to miss something that they would look for, because you're already pre determining something. But you know, having said that, if you get to the end of the, the appointment, they're like, No, everything's fine. That's when you go, you're sure she doesn't have diabetes, because, right? Because I made the trip and everything, and she can't comb her hair anymore. So let's take a look. Right. And and what was her reaction? I mean, she couldn't run away, I guess, because she was too tired.

Bonnie 15:43
So, right. I mean, she was so the doctor was very nice. And he and this was another thing that I guess I was so ignorant about. I didn't understand what it meant that, you know, he's telling me that she has diabetes, because his you know, he said, Okay, so what you're going to do now is I want you to take her down, we don't live very far outside of the city. So he said, I want you to take her down to Columbia children's emergency room. And I was like, whoa, what do you mean, I was like, why are you sending me down to the city? You know, they're hot. Why can I take her to the hospital here? First of all, why do I take her to the hospital? Second of all, like, why can I take her up here? Why do you and he's like, Well, they're the best there. And I said, Okay, I was like, but you're sending me to a city, children's emergency room, like, I'm gonna sit with her like an emergency room and wait for them to take her. And this still haunts me what he said next, he said, he said, You're going to go down there, and you're not going to wait, because she's going to be one of the sickest kids there. And I said, I don't even understand what that means. Like, what do you mean? Because, yes, I was looking at my child who, you know, was definitely, you know, skinny. And she was, I guess, seemingly tired. And but but it she didn't seem like a sick kids. Me, I didn't see it that way. So when he said that, to me, that kind of like rocked my

Scott Benner 17:20
world a little. Because he's like, he's basically telling you look at the ones that are dying going first, Bonnie, that that's Don't worry about

Bonnie 17:28
right. And I didn't see that in her. I didn't look at her and see that that then. So. So, you know, we did what he said, We, my husband met me at home, we packed up a few things. And we went down. And as I said, it's not very far. And again, they they took her right away. And they we went we were in the emergency room for a while. And I you know, it all started. And this is a kid who I said, you know, is such an easy child. And the one thing she's afraid of is like doctors and shots, you know, the irony, just still, it's laughable. But um, she, you know, they had to put IVs in her and I can't tell you how amazing they were at the hospital. They put those those VR goggles on her. And they had like a child life. Is that what they're called Child Life specialists, or I don't know, they have people at the hospital, I guess, like, in especially in a children's hospital. They come and you know, I guess they help, you know, the doctors, like get done with the done. And so they came and they were like they did you know, they weren't like rushing her. They put these VR goggles on her and they were letting her play this game. And they put this numbing stuff on her arms, you know, before they put the IVs in and like they just made it really as easy as as it could have been. So we were really, really lucky there. And, and they told us that they would move her to the PICU. But they didn't have a place for her yet. So they were going to do everything that they were going to do in the PICU in the emergency room.

Scott Benner 19:20
And she just sort of I mean, was she in decay? She was? Yeah,

Bonnie 19:24
she was I think when they got to the when we got to the hospital, her blood sugar was over 600

Scott Benner 19:30
Oh, it's so interesting how in your mind, it feels like this long journey. And then when I asked you how long it was you thought, well, maybe a week or a couple weeks. But it sounds like when you tell the story. It sounds like you smelled her urine in October and in March.

Bonnie 19:45
You know?

Scott Benner 19:46
I don't mean like yeah, I don't know. I don't mean you told the story of it not well. I mean that it just it's interesting how when something like this happens with hindsight, it gets broken down into these gems. Just very tiny pieces that everything feels so stretched out and, and an important when you look back. Yes, it's really Yeah, it's really something actually. Well, yes. Okay, so obviously she's alright because you're here talking about it. And they sent her now, I have to say this the the tone of your email to me about being on the podcast was just that in general you felt very lucky how everything has happened for your daughter with diabetes. And and so I mean not a lot of people say that but I guess it starts with a really great hospital where they do you know do things well for her I mean, honestly VR goggles to distract a kid. I didn't know that existed.

Bonnie 20:49
I yeah, I had no idea. And it really it really did. You know, obviously she couldn't see what was coming. So that was a plus. And she was distracted. I guess she was playing some game. I don't even know how VR goggles work. But I guess she's playing some game in there. I have a I have a great picture of her like sitting on this hospital bed with like, they put a you know, one of those surgical caps on her and then VR goggles and like, you know, she looks ridiculous, but she was okay. Yeah, you know, she she didn't, you know, freak out like she could have.

Scott Benner 21:23
So once they explained to you that she didn't have lucky charms in her urine, but she had babies I love that these like there's sugar in here to a person who has no idea about diabetes, you would just be like, Okay, is there not sugar in our pay? Like I didn't know that? Like, how would I know that? You know? What kind of direction did you get after she was stabilized? And did they go right to like, how did they teach you about diabetes there?

Bonnie 21:51
So I guess we were really lucky because I I've heard you know people can spend days in in the hospital and she was really only there. We went into the hospital like Thursday morning. And we were home by Friday evening. Wow. So okay, yeah, no it Yeah. What hospital it was Columbia

Scott Benner 22:15
children's. If you're around there and you get diabetes, that's the place to go hey, I'm gonna play the ads. Now. I'd appreciate it if you listened to them. G voc hypo pan has no visible needle, and it's the first premixed auto injector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is G voc hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit G Vogue glucagon.com/risk.

Alright, I'm almost done. I just want to thank everyone who has supported me at buy me a coffee.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast. There are almost 300 followers for the page 35 members, and just a bunch of lovely people leaving messages of thanks and support. And a couple of dollars for me to buy a coffee with which I don't do I usually buy hard drives and stuff like that for the podcast with the money, pay my bills, stuff like that. But I'm just going to read you one here's the latest one started listening two and a half years ago, shortly after my daughter was diagnosed. Initially listen for the incredibly helpful information and comfort of knowing that I wasn't alone. I'll explain what that was in a second and comfort of knowing that I wasn't alone still listened to most of the episodes because it helps me to keep ideas fresh in my mind, and for the sense of community. I also like the pieces of life perspective that are mixed in such as enjoying the chance to hold my daughter's hand in the middle of the night during fingerstick. And learning recently that my husband isn't the only male who prefers not to shave his face every day. She thought he was just being lazy. And then she found out I don't like it either. Anyway, find me a coffee.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast, just a ton of kindness there for me and I wanted to take a second to say appreciate it. And that little cash register that you just heard that was indelicate I didn't like that. But somebody just bought a sweatshirt from Juicebox Podcast calm. And my app tells me when that happens. Actually a few people have done it today. Must be because I lowered the price. Anyway. That's kind of an ad for me, isn't it? I'll take it. I don't have to pay for it. I still get it perks of being the boss. Let's get back to Bonnie now shall we?

Bonnie 25:02
Yeah, honestly, like, I could not recommend it more. Um, so she actually never ended up going to the PICU. Because I, I don't even know what they, I don't even know, like what their criteria were, but I guess she, they were managed to, like stabilize her enough that probably by one in the morning, they moved us to a room and not the PICU. So we she was in a room there. And then the next morning they came and they began our education. And I guess they figured we we had enough education, and she was stable enough that we could bring her home Friday evening, you said

Scott Benner 25:51
your husband, being a dentist had anything to do with it? As much as I think that's silly. I'm asking.

Bonnie 25:56
I mean, truthfully, like they, they went through everything with us, and they didn't let us leave, obviously, until, like, we both could, you know, we practice getting shots in, you know, that cushion thing. And then we both stuck our own fingers. And we both had to, you know, do a finger stick on Abby. And, you know, we were really intent, we didn't want to stay in the hospital, we didn't want her to have to stay in the hospital. So we were really intent on like, learning everything that we had to learn as well and as quickly as possible, so that we could take her home. Just because, you know, we wanted, you know, everybody's more comfortable. Nobody wants to be in the hospital. And so I guess we did a good job. And they were also really, really good. And I don't know how it works in, you know, with with most situations. But the the practice that we see is affiliated with the hospital, they're literally right across the street, and they were the ones who came to the hospital. So it's not like I had to find an endocrinologist like this. These were our endocrinologist. And they were amazing from the outset. And they sent us home with pens, and obviously finger sticks. But again, I don't know how my husband knew about this, probably because he sees patients and he's, you know, he sees, I guess he's seen people who have these things, but he knew about continuous glucose monitors. And so before we left the hospital, he was like, I want one and we couldn't get the Dexcom right away. But we left the hospital and she was wearing a libre.

Scott Benner 27:39
He didn't want to smell pee anymore. That's what it was it

Bonnie 27:43
a navy. It's not like ketone film. Yeah, whatever

Scott Benner 27:46
keeps that from happening to me again, let's let's get one of those. So she she rolls out the door with a Libra and some needles. And some pen pens. Excuse me. That's amazing. Really cool.

Bonnie 28:00
No, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, it was great. And then literally a week later, I had a Dexcom on her.

Scott Benner 28:07
Okay, what made you switch? It was just the continuous nature of it.

Bonnie 28:12
Yes. I mean, I, you know, in the short time, we were at the hospital, we were, you know, Googling and looking up stuff. And, you know, Dexcom popped up pretty quickly. And he's like, you know, we want this and it was actually a really funny story. Because, you know, every, obviously everything happens at once. So she was diagnosed, it was December 13. It was two weeks shy of her birthday. She was born on December 30. And then, a week after she was diagnosed, we were set to leave for like, for a vacation. And in the hospital. Like, we, you know, we kept saying to the doctors were like, We shouldn't go away, right? We shouldn't go away. Right? And like, wink, wink, you know, like, please say that, you know, in front of my child, like, we shouldn't go away on this vacation. They're like, No, no, no, they're like, you can totally go it's totally fine. You're gonna be fine. Bring your insulin. You know, bring all your stuff. She's gonna run a little high. It's okay. But yeah, go away. And we're like, Oh, crap.

Scott Benner 29:23
They didn't get the idea that you were scared out of your mind and didn't want to go on vacation. Exactly. Let's try this again. I'm gonna say we can't go on vacation. Right and then you're gonna say yes, that would be a bad idea. Do not go on. Well, listen, it's it's, I mean, they pushed you out of your comfort zone pretty quickly, that's for sure. But I

Bonnie 29:44
was, I'm sorry. We might your phone fell out. So it really was the best possible thing. Did I enjoy that trip? No. But we went and we did it. We didn't kill her. And we learned a lot. And like, literally, we we were leaving early Friday morning. And we were flying too. It wasn't like we were driving or anything. So we had to figure that all out. And literally Thursday night, I slapped the Dexcom on her. Okay, so I and I didn't know anything about it. I, I have to say, I mean, I know, I love Dexcom. And I'm so thankful for it every single day. I know some people have issues with it, or problems, or they say about their customer service. Well, the way I put a Dexcom on her was I called the number and one of the options is like, Are you a first time user? So I clicked, you know, whatever that option was. And I had some woman who literally talked me through the entire process for like, probably like a good hour and a half from like, setting it up to downloading the app to physically putting it on her. Like, I had this woman on speakerphone. I'm like, Okay, now, where do I put it? And she's like, and she was amazing. So I was very happy about that.

Scott Benner 31:09
Yeah, well, that's really, that's, that's what made you I guess what, what made you so vigorous in your, in your pursuit of this stuff so quickly? Like, it sounds like you knew more than you should have at that time? Like, where do you get that information from?

Bonnie 31:27
Honestly, I didn't, I really think my husband was the one who drove that. He was like, you know, I think we're, you know, sitting in the hospital room that night. And, you know, we're not sleeping. And I think, you know, we're on our phones. And he was like, he knew about continuous glucose monitors. So I guess it didn't take him long to figure out, you know, which one. And already, we're like, you know, what, we knew that insulin pumps existed, we just, you know, needed to research about which one? And I think her insulin pump came about four or five months later.

Scott Benner 32:04
Was she on board with that idea? Yes, yeah. Yeah, enjoy the shots.

Bonnie 32:08
No, no, she didn't. She got okay with it. Um, it was hard in the beginning. But, again, she's a very easy child. So, you know, and we're not opposed to bribery. You know, like, you know, do this, and, you know, we can do this or you will get you. Or,

Scott Benner 32:30
it is easy mean, I don't mean to dip in your living room

Bonnie 32:35
like she wants. She's very, she's eager to please. Um, and she's very go with the flow in terms of her personality.

Scott Benner 32:47
But do you think there's something she didn't want to do to make you happy?

Bonnie 32:52
Um, she, I think she saw that, like, you know, wearing the Dexcom meant that we didn't have to prick her finger all the time. So that was what she saw. That was something she wanted, right? And wearing an insulin pump. Yeah, she doesn't like it when we have to change it. But it also means she doesn't have to take shots. So I think she's smart enough to realize all

Scott Benner 33:15
that. Yeah. And I didn't mean that. Like, are you sure you're not a you know what I mean, manipulate? I just meant, like, is it in her nature to say yes to something if she didn't want to? Or would she have the hutzpah to step up? If she had to and say, hey, look, I see that this seems like a good idea to you. But here are my reservations. Like, does she ever? Like Does she ever chime in? Well, she

Bonnie 33:38
as it as a child, it was always funny because she was not. As a young child, she was not a very, like, adventurous child. So like, if there were kids who were like, going down, like a big slide, you know, she would have no qualms about being like, Nope, I'm not doing that. And, you know, and that was fine. You know, like, but I think like, I've heard you say, before, we're also the type of parents where, you know, we'll let them have certain decisions and certain decisions are not going to be totally up to them. You know, we knew that this was probably a better way to handle it. So we would do what we had to do to make her okay with it. But ultimately, you know, I we knew it was better for her.

Scott Benner 34:28
No, I think that's perfect. I'm, I'm on board with what you did. I was just wanted you to explain it because other people are listening. And I can't just tell them everything all the time. Bonnie talk we have to get this point out this point has to come out that that point very simply is that you don't make let nine year olds make, like medical decisions.

Bonnie 34:50
Right, right. Right. I know this is better for you. I know. It sucks. We're gonna do whatever we have to do to make it okay for you. But this is what it's gonna

Scott Benner 34:59
feel are our options. These are the best of them. We're gonna try these and see what happens. Right?

Bonnie 35:05
And I did you know, when I put the Dexcom on her for the first time, she was scared, you know, and I was too I didn't know how it would feel for her. I didn't know if it was gonna hurt. I didn't know if it was gonna be, you know, uncomfortable wearing it. I said, and I said to her, I was like, Look, I was like, we're gonna try this. If it doesn't work, we'll figure something else out. Yeah. But I was like, but I want you to try this. And that's that's really actually how I broach things with her

Scott Benner 35:32
pardons first Dexcom was put on in a doctor's office. That's how long ago Arden got on Dexcom. If you wanted to wear it, you had to go there to have the first one put on. Oh, we had to go into the city, you know, because you had to go to the main building, where like the lady who really knew what she was doing was, and we got there and she didn't do a good job putting it on her. And I drove, you know, an hour home. And she's got How old was Arden then? not that old? I'm guessing around. How about that? I have no recollection of exactly how five maybe is right in that range, one way or the other. And we got home and my wife was there. And she showed it to my wife and everything. And then finally Arden's like, this thing really hurts. And then you're like, Okay, does it hurt? Does she think it hurts? Because she's, like, aware of it? How long do we let that go? And so my wife and I quickly huddled up, I'm like, Alright, what do we do? Here? We go, she really seems like she's in pain. And I was like, I know. But maybe she's just not accustomed to it. Or maybe she's, you know, being her age or something. And we just set a certain amount of time. And I said, Alright, listen, if it still hurts in an hour, I'll change it for you. But we're gonna put another one right back on. Like, I did not want her to feel like all I have to do is say this thing's uncomfortable. And then I don't have to wear it anymore. And I don't know if that's what she was doing or not. But I didn't want the possibility that that's what what she was right. Right. So okay, wait a little longer. She said it really hurt. I went online and research that a little more. And came to the conclusion that I did not see the woman pinch up at all, when she pulled along. She just slapped it on her and like push the button basically. So I put a new one on, I just visually did what made sense to me. I figured like, Okay, well, the sensor comes out this way about this angle. So there needs to be a lot of like, flesh right there. And I put it back on and she was not bothered by the second one. Now, I don't know if I did it a different job. Or if it just was more comfortable to her because I did it. And not that who knows. Right? But right. That's how we handle it. But that my biggest fear in that moment. I guess I should say my biggest fear that Arden was in pain, but that would be a lie. My biggest fear was that she was going to see giving up as an option. Right there.

Bonnie 38:00
Right. Right. And you know, you wanted this for

Scott Benner 38:03
well, you know what to and in hindsight, forget wanted it. I mean, Arden's health is not anywhere near where it is. Now, our understanding of diabetes would not be anywhere near where it is. Now, if we didn't do that that day. Right. So, right, I just had to be that's all.

Bonnie 38:20
I agree with you certain things to have to be and we have to do what we can to make it okay.

Scott Benner 38:26
It would be like if someone said, Listen, you have to have oxygen to walk around all day. And you're like, I don't want to do that. Right, right, right. No, of course you don't, because no one would want to do that. And nobody wants to wear a continuous glucose monitor. That is not a thing that people get up in the morning. Like, I'm super excited, you know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna work glucose monitor. It's just you have diabetes now. So your rules change. And right now there are different things that you need to do. And right, there are ways to do it with glee and a light heartedness. And they're wasted where you fight tooth and nail the whole way. And I even wonder sometimes when people complain online about companies, if some of it's just not that they're just pissed that they have to do it at all. And then it doesn't go perfectly. So like this place sucks, you know, because you can't say diabetes sucks, because then that kind of gets attached to you. You know, because that feels, feels like it's part of you. So now you're complaining about yourself. So we'll pick an outside thing that's tangentially attached to diabetes. And I bet that thing's horrible. Not to say the companies don't mess stuff up. You know, and sometimes customer service lacks in places and sometimes it's amazing and blah, blah, blah. But I just do wonder what people are mad at when they're mad because you have this thing that showing you your blood sugar, direction and speed constantly. And 20 years ago, people were boiling, you know, their urine defeat, right? Like, hey, nothing's perfect, but this seems way better than the other thing. You know,

Bonnie 39:59
I totally Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:01
So how is she now present day? Like, what's it like for her to have diabetes right now?

Bonnie 40:08
So, um, she's always had a really good attitude. And we have tried so hard to how should I say it? Like, we we keep it really, really light. We, we, she has, she and my husband share the same kind of dark sense of humor. So, you know, they're constantly joking about, you know, you know, if she's low, we're not like freaking out, you know, we're, you know, we're making a joke out of it, you know, she'll, she'll come up to us and be like, I feel low. And my husband will be like, well, is your tongue hanging out yet? You know? Because what it is, you know, you let me know, I'll give you some shoot now. So, and she thinks that's funny. And I think like, the lighter we keep it. The, you know, the easier it is for her, you know, she doesn't. She's not one that looks at herself, like, oh, I have this, like, there was this assignment that she had to write in English class. It was, I guess they had read something. And they had to like, write a poem that was similar to her to it. It was like my birthday wishes or something. And I think a lot of it was like, I wish you know, this wasn't there. And I wish that wasn't there. And I read hers and hers was she, she definitely talked about, you know, COVID And like, I wish you know, I could be in school more. I wish I could see my friends more. I wish you know, this, you know, this disease didn't exist. And I wish I didn't have homework, you know, all like normal kids stuff. And not once did she mentioned diabetes,

Scott Benner 41:51
right? I would have I wish they didn't give Sebastian Stan so many lines in Falcon in the Winter Soldier because

Bonnie 41:57
oh my god, he watched that I watched it was not

Scott Benner 42:00
a great actor. I think he was perfect in the movies, where they just grunted a couple of times and starts emoting. And I'm like, I don't know.

Bonnie 42:11
I wish mon division was longer.

Scott Benner 42:15
Sorry. No, I get I take your point. Like, it's, she doesn't see diabetes right away.

Bonnie 42:20
Yeah, she doesn't see she doesn't see herself like that. And I think like, of anything, you know, we could achieve with this, that that would be what I want, that I don't want her to feel to feel different. I don't want her to, and I don't think she does. So she is fine with it. She and when I when I wrote to you, and I said, you know all like I'm grateful. I'm generally not that person, I tend to be like a pessimistic person. But like in this, like I saw right away, like, I felt lucky that she was the age she was like, I couldn't imagine a you know, a baby, or some but or teenager, a full on teenager, you know, I saw the challenges immediately with that, like, she was definitely young enough. But old enough when she was diagnosed, and we had great support, and we had, you know, she was the type of kid that she was. And I saw that and you know, I she's doing fine. She we obviously, you know, take most of the control with it. But this is the first year that she is texting diabetes with me in school. It kind of helped that. That, you know, she was only going like two days a week for most of the year. So the other days she was home, but even like when we were at home, I can, you know, tell her to Bolus and she knows how to do that. And even like, you know, the nuances of it, like sometimes like, like, if you're below I think if you're below 70. Like the the Omnipod won't let you Bolus.

Scott Benner 44:10
Alright, it's just there you have it set that way. Yeah, I

Bonnie 44:13
must be like, yeah, it won't let you Bolus it'll say or it won't let you use the calculator. I'm sorry. It'll let you Bolus it won't use the calculator. The Bolus calculator. So we figured that out. And now like, she knows that trick, and I think like my husband was going to Bolus her one time and she's like, Daddy, Daddy, don't put 68 you have to put 70 because then it won't let you know. And so she knows that. Does she know how to make like, all the nuances of it like, oh, you know, you're going to eat soon. So you know, you're running low. So I'm not going to Bolus yet like No, she's not making those kinds of decisions. But if I tell her to do something, she can do everything from like, increasing her Basal to extending a Bolus, like if I just tell her how to do it, she'll do it.

Scott Benner 44:59
Right. That's cool. Okay, I think you can lower that number in the PDM, by the way, yeah, yeah. Take a look. Because I had ours. It was possible. I did not want anything telling me I couldn't Bolus so right. Yeah, but take a look, if that bothers you, I think you can change it. Not. But I also take your point about the timing, because not so small, but not old enough where she feels real cemented into, like, This is who I am. And you're interfering with this, like that right thing. And you have a couple of years here to figure out diabetes before the period start, which is nice. Because it is going to get like it's possible, it's going to get more difficult. You know,

Bonnie 45:39
I think it already is like, she does not have her period yet. But I mean, she's growing. She, she eats a ton. And, you know, there are some things like I just don't understand why they happen. And, you know, I'm kind of chalking it up to like, okay, she's growing, or it's hormones, or I don't know what the hell's happening. But it's happening.

Scott Benner 46:03
Yeah, well just stay flexible. Like, I really think that's the fourth wall of of what I talked about, I think it's, you know, Basal Pre-Bolus glycemic load index, and then flexibility after that, because you have to take what you understand and apply it to the situations and the situations are going to continue to morph and move and things like that. And you can't be frozen in that spot where you're like, I don't understand, like these settings work yesterday, like you, you just can't do that you have to be able to say I don't care why, but it appears like more insulin is necessary today than it was yesterday. And that's what I'm gonna do. And I like dark humor part I Arden started working out after classes again. And I'm having trouble beating it into her head to set a Temp Basal prior to working out. So she's doing this exact same workout that is taking her right to 5500 blood sugar every time like it just it's like magic. I said are in luck. Let's just let the you know. And she's, she's not ignoring me. But I think she's feeling something out. And I'm just letting her do it. So she can have the experience if she's like working out coming upstairs needing some sort of like, bar, I don't know. And, and I'm like, You got to eat the bar sooner because it takes longer to digest. It's not hitting the low. And she's like, just kind of like, I'm letting the whole thing happen, let it play out. But she got into the shower the other day after she worked out. And like she wasn't going to make it. So I'm looking at her CGM. And I'm like, it's not gonna work. Like she's not getting out of the shower without intervention of some kind. So I walked by the doors locked, I knocked and she was what, they're gonna die in there. And she goes, I'm okay. And I was like, I appreciate that you feel that way. But you're wrong. And I'm going to bring something into you, you know. So we have, we have this little locks. I don't know if people like get we let our kids lock their doors like because, you know, that seems important to give them autonomy. But you can also unlock the door from the other side. So I just like pop the lock. I'm like, I'm coming in and I my hand just goes over the bar with a juice and then she gave it back and said, Alright, enjoy your shower. You know, I kept going, but she would have wrote it out. Because she's trying to prove something to herself.

Bonnie 48:12
I think right now.

Scott Benner 48:13
So the teenager Yeah. Like I just worked out and took a shower. Like, leave me alone. I have like a whole plan for today. And it involves watching something apparently called Big mouth on Netflix now, which I haven't watched yet. So some I think it's a dirty cartoon. Uh huh. But anyway, yeah, I like it. I like the whole vibe. I like the way you're going after it. I hope it keeps moving that way. A lot of it's got to do with your attitude. Right, which you can't say enough about that. The it's interesting that you said you're pessimistic generally, I think this part of the country like complaining is a sport. I love to complain. I don't even know how to explain to you how much I enjoy complain.

Bonnie 49:00
I mean, yeah, we say that all the time. I think you know, you know, because, you know, we're getting older and we'll be like, Oh, I'm tired. And then we'll like, you know, no, I'm really not. It's just a filler line kind of thing. Just a state of being you know, yeah,

Scott Benner 49:13
no, I just I can't even like I had to stop myself because my wife's like, it's too much. And I'm like, but it's so enjoyable. Like, she's like, Oh my god, I'm not upset. I just love to complain about things. Do you not love to complain about things? I don't I don't know why it's fantastic. But you don't do that about diabetes?

Bonnie 49:31
No. And we we have tried from the very beginning to like, I will get frustrated and I try my very best not to show that to her because I don't want her to ever think that it's something she's doing or and and with food she is I just listened to the podcast about sneaking food and thankfully at least right now like she's not a kid who who's doing that. But she will say to me, you know, even from the very beginning, she will say to me, can I have this? Is that okay? And from the very beginning, I was like, yes, absolutely. I was like, we will figure it out. And in my head, I'm like, Oh crap, do you really, really want to eat that? But in my, you know, I don't I don't say that to her. Obviously, yes, we will figure it

Scott Benner 50:26
out every weekend Bolus for anything in your mom's in your mind's eye. You're like, son of a bitch.

Bonnie 50:34
That's exactly it. I'm like, absolutely, sure. And then I'm like, Oh, I mean, truthfully, the only time I that I still really get upset is if I, if I can't say yes to something like if she's like, crazy high for some reason. And like, she wants something. And I'm like, and even then I'm like, You know what, we can't do it right now. I was like, but I promise you, you will be able to have this. And sometimes like it was even like the next day or something. But I was like, but I promise you, you will be able to have

Scott Benner 51:07
that feeling. That feeling right there is what is how I is how I figured out how to crush it and catch it like that right there. Like that idea of oh my god, we're in a scenario where I absolutely for medical reasons have to say you can't eat that right now. And I don't want to be in that situation. It happened very recently, around the holiday. I think I talked about on the podcast, but it might have been Thanksgiving, where we had a situation, ici explained that. But anyway, excuse me one second. Spring around here, everything's just terrible. Um, I'm gonna forget the exact thing that happened. But I think what happened was she was upstairs. I told her to was at the end of an infusion site, I knew it had to be changed. But there's a miscommunication. Some insulin didn't go in, the pump site got swapped, right as this like treat Type food happened. And I made this massive Bolus that I thought handled it and it didn't. So now it's two hours before Thanksgiving dinner, and her blood sugar was like 270, it was like really higher, way higher than we usually say. So we had this interruption with the insulin. And I just looked at it, and I looked at the food and I was like, alright, the food's gonna be done around here. I cannot let her blood sugar be an issue at that point. And I just, I think I injected some insulin, just to make certain that it was going to work. And I put her into a freefall that coincided with Thanksgiving dinner, because well, that worked. But I just couldn't. I couldn't see. I couldn't stomach the idea that Thanksgiving dinner would roll out on the table. And she'd feel like she couldn't eat. I didn't want that. But from experiences like that in the past, that's how I learned to do that. How I Learned how to Pre-Bolus for cereal so well. Because like, in my mind, I was like if we create a fast enough fall, and time it with that incredible kick of the cereal. Like then that then that tug of war that I make happen with a normal meal I could make happen with this too. And it's most of the things that I figured out that I eventually talked about on the podcast come from a desire to not make Arden's life different.

Bonnie 53:30
Right. Yeah. Right. So

Scott Benner 53:34
and everybody can figure stuff like, trust me, I don't know how many times you need me to say it, but I'm an idiot. So if I figured this stuff out, you really can do it. I mean, I know people say that, and it's supposed to be this thing, but I really am. I'm not. I'm not really good at anything else. Like I'm good at this. Maybe for Arden. You know, they mean? I think if it wasn't an ardent if it was me, I don't even know that I'd be very good at it.

Bonnie 53:58
Well, no, but I mean, I that's what I that's what I want. I mean, I think that's what everybody wants, I want I listen, and I want to I want to be able to do this for her and I want to get good at it. And I don't I mean, she's, she's fine. I mean, her her. A onesie is fine. I mean, I think it's pretty good. But I still I still feel like we roller coaster too much. I don't feel like I have a good grasp of like how to handle the food yet. We definitely always Pre-Bolus I've listened to all of like the pro tips. And and I listen again and again. I'm still trying to get the whole fat protein thing. But I want I want to be I want to be like a diabetes ninja. You're like the Obi Wan Kenobi of diabetes. So I want to get that and I feel like I'm not a good rookie. And we're two and a half years. And I don't know. I guess I feel like I should be better at it than I am but

Scott Benner 55:06
two and a half years in Arden say once he was eight and a half, what's Abby's?

Bonnie 55:11
Well, but she didn't have a didn't she not have a CGM yet?

Scott Benner 55:16
Yeah, but that's not the point. Where are you at? Do not want to say you don't know No, no,

Bonnie 55:20
I would be finally saying we haven't done an in person. A one see, I think for like, almost nine months. We're going next week. But um, but the last time we had an in person, she was around like six, which is, which is No, it's great. But like, I don't know, like, I think like we still have a lot of highs, we still have a lot of lows, I want to get it more stable.

Scott Benner 55:47
The a one C is not the end all be all, obviously you're looking for time, time and range, less variability, and those sorts of things that lead to better health. But my point is that you haven't been doing it that long. And you've just described a situation where things seem pretty healthy for her mentally. And that's amazing. And then you can figure the rest of this stuff out. And you know, dialed in. I don't I always am amazed at how quickly people think it's going to work. You don't mean like, if you made like a different correlation, like if you made me a quarterback in the NFL. And you are a person who two years ago said You know, I'm going to be a quarterback in the NFL. I'm gonna listen to Scott's podcast about being a quarterback. In two years in you were a proficient high school quarterback, would you be like I can't believe I'm not an NFL quarterback yet? Like you wouldn't. You'd be like, Wow, this seems like a long process. It's the fact that it's health. That makes it seem and it is I'm not gonna lie like It's like dire. Feels dire. Right? But you're probably doing amazing. I mean, if you're at a six a one, see, even with some lows and highs, you probably don't see blood sugar's over 200 Very often, right?

Bonnie 57:01
Um, we we do we do?

Scott Benner 57:04
Are the big spikes that you get back right away?

Bonnie 57:08
Yes, yes. Let's just say like, I don't leave her. I don't leave her hot very long. Like, there are nights though. And, and I think it comes down to the food, like I have to get better at the food, um, nights or nights are very hard. I we try I try to do dinner early thinking that like I can, you know, get her where I want to be before she goes to bed, but it never seems to work out that way. Like, it's it's it's almost comical, you know, we'll be like, okay, Abby, go to bed and your third child. So we'd like to teenage siblings, so she does not go to bed early. You know, like my, my oldest, you know, when he was 11. He went to bed at like, I don't know, nine or something. And this kid, you know, can go all night, you know, because the house doesn't stop, you know, till very late. So, you know, it's not like she goes to bed early, but like literally be like, okay, Abby, go to bed. And all of a sudden, like, you know, the beeping starts. And it's like, she's either going up, or she's going down. And again, the only time that I get upset is if I have to disturb her. So like, it's one thing. I hate it when she's high. But at least it's me being up at night and not her being up at night when she's low. You know, I can get her to drink in her sleep. But like, I don't like disturbing her, you know, like I would rather I would rather be me having to be often her having.

Scott Benner 58:37
Well, that sounds like a fun thing. You should tell a therapist, Bonnie, but don't worry about it. Don't Don't let it impact what you're doing in the moment. I mean,

Bonnie 58:49
I know it doesn't, it doesn't like I do what I have to do. I just hate it. You know, I have to bother her.

Scott Benner 58:54
Well, I can't say I don't understand. I can just say that. I would hope you'd find a way past that. You know, because it's a that would be like saying, you know, when you're in the hospital and they draw your blood three in the morning? I don't think the nurse feels bad. No, yeah. The nurses like, well, this is what we have to do. That's right. No and

Bonnie 59:15
Exactly. And, and, and, and, you know, we do what we have to do,

Scott Benner 59:19
but you don't want it to happen. And you hear that it's not happening to some people. Yes,

Bonnie 59:24
yes. Yes. And, and I really, really want the new Omnipod Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, you know, on bated breath for that. Because I think I almost feel like, like, I'd be cheating a little bit, but I'm okay with that.

Scott Benner 59:43
That's the weirdest thing you've said so far.

Bonnie 59:46
But is it really I mean, like, I want to figure it out, and I am trying to figure it out. But if that can help me then you know, that's okay, too.

Scott Benner 59:57
I wouldn't. I don't think Subscribe to that idea at all. So I get that you want to be able to figure it out, and that it feels like you should be able to do it with a hammer and a screwdriver. And you don't, and you don't want to Tesla getting any mean like, but if if that's what works, then that's what works. I yeah, I know for anybody who would say, Well, what would happen? If one day Abby grows up and doesn't have insurance and she can't afford her on the pot of five anymore? To that I would say, well, then we'll take all these great years of health. And then Abby can figure it out. Right, right. Because whatever Abby figures out when she's 11 isn't going to be applicable when she's 35 to begin with. So it doesn't matter, right. So I don't understand people are like, No, skip the technology, really bare bones, like, you should know how to give a shot, you should know how to stop a spike, you should know how to fix a low, like, and you know, all that. So if there's, if there's, if there's going to be technology that is going to I'll tell you that I think the algorithms are most valuable at stopping lows. Okay, so so let's just say if there's a piece of technology that at eight o'clock at night, can say to itself, at 10, this girl is going to get low, I'm going to start taking her Basal away now. So that that doesn't happen. That's not cheating. That's amazing.

Bonnie 1:01:21
Oh, I know, I cannot wait for it. I cannot wait for it, you know, and again, I feel very lucky that like, you know, she was diagnosed at like a really good time. You know, in terms of technology, you know, there's so much and it's just getting so much better every day that you know, I couldn't ask for more than that.

Scott Benner 1:01:44
This is it. And I mean, you and I are recording now in May. And in all honesty, June July, this might not go up until like Halloween. So, you know, you and I are the only one saying it, I would be really surprised if on the pod fives not out pretty soon. So and then it just comes down to insurance. And you know, and in getting it going. I'm excited to go for like I love looping. But I want to try on the part five I don't loop has that link that goes between so I'm so sorry, give me a second. I'm gonna have to cut this out. Dying over here. Your loop has I think it's that I didn't have it this morning. Loop has um, loop has you know phone algorithm on your phone. It has the CGM it has the pump. And then there's this other thing that links them all together. It's this sort of bridge right? Some people call Riley link Arden's using an orange link. But it's another thing to carry around. Whereas on the pod five will have the algorithm printed right on the board of the Omni pod, like so it lives with you. So you could walk away from your phone, you could walk away from anything, and the algorithm will keep working. That, to me is very cool. And an art and once that now you can be more aggressive with loop because the settings are user definable. And there's no FDA telling you what to do, right. So we have to get on the pod five and see how I can't wait to get it and see what I can figure out what you don't mean like, I'm assuming that targets going to be like 110 That seems to be where the FDA is putting everybody. So I can't wait to see how you can kind of be more aggressive with settings and and do what we need to do. Now in the end, I'm going to do whatever is best for Arden. But taking Arden out of the picture for a second. Ali part five is going to, for most people living on insulin, it's going to make an incredible improvement for their health. And that's really the focus should be like it's you know, if you have a 4.8 a one C and you're eating, you know, keto, and maybe this thing isn't for you, like I don't know, but you're in a very special situation if that's you. So for most people, people are walking around with eight 910 A one sees people with 12 A one sees who have just resolved themselves like I'm gonna die. It's okay. I'm not like and there are people doing that. Like, I know that you listen to the podcast, it doesn't feel that way and interacting online through the Facebook page for the podcast, you think Oh, everybody's trying so hard. But there are also people who are trying really hard to have absolutely no success and, and have resolved themselves to it. This thing, you could slap this on them and make a major improvement in their life in no time. That's the that's the leap. And then, okay, well, we're gonna I mean, I'm gonna personally be up on the pods but to make it more customizable, and you know, every time I talk to them I mentioned I've been doing it for years. So I'm sticking up for you guys with a lot of different companies. Behind the scenes. I'm always making the case for people who are I'm very involved and need the autonomy to make decisions. So I don't know how valuable I am. But I'm always in there swinging for everybody. Well, it can't hurt. And it can't hurt just to mention sometimes because you don't realize too sometimes you're talking to somebody in a company. Like they're making a thing. They're not like, they're not living your life. You don't mean like, they're like, look, this is my job. I make an insulin pump. Here it is, you know, we've done it. It's an amazing improvement for a vast majority of people with type one diabetes. From their perspective, it's an incredible thing. And they're not wrong. No, it is right. But they need to hear from everybody. So

Bonnie 1:05:38
write real real life experiences. No, I am so excited for it. I can't wait.

Scott Benner 1:05:46
I can't wait to I just emailed my guy. Two weeks ago, and I was like, Is there any news of when, you know?

Bonnie 1:05:58
Yeah, it's like radio silence every time I've called they're like, they don't know anything. They haven't been given any information. And I get that, you know, right. Yeah, I'll wait.

Scott Benner 1:06:08
Yeah, I don't get well listen, Mike, my I'm not calling customer service. But I have guys there. And at the same time, it's still like, you know, I don't know where I can't say or, you know what I mean? Like, there's, there's a lot of considerations for a public company, trying to get something through the FDA is a very

Bonnie 1:06:30
process has to be yes. Crazy. And plus, with COVID. And everything, everything was kind of slow down, I'm sure.

Scott Benner 1:06:36
Yeah. And just regulatorily they can't step up. And like, let's say, just take Company X thought that something was going to be ready on June 10. I'm now literally making up numbers. And they quickly start saying we expect that the FDA is going to on June 10. Like, that's not good. The FDA doesn't love that. Right? So you have to sit very quietly and say we're in the process, we feel good about it. You know, we think it's going to happen in this time frame that that language is not to keep you upset that language is the language they have to use. So, yeah, it's it's very interesting. Is there anything Barney that we have not spoken about that you wish we would have?

Bonnie 1:07:18
Um, no, I mean, it was it was really nice talking with you. I, I love listening to the podcast, I found it pretty much right after she was diagnosed a friend of mine, very good friend of mine, you know, when she was diagnosed, I guess, you know, people were like, what, what can I do? What can I do? And she, I guess, did some research and she emailed me like a whole list of like resources, and one of them was your podcast. And truthfully, I didn't even know how to listen to a podcast, I had to ask my older son. I was like, so So how does this work? And he showed me that there was an app and everything like that. But um, but it was it was very helpful. It was helpful. It's always helpful to like, hear other people's experiences. I love the Pro Tip series and the defining diabetes. I loved the one you did with one were it was almost like, what? What do you what should you somebody who, what do you tell like a family member? Oh, who? What do you want them to say? I can't think of I can't describe it well enough. Do you know what I'm what I'm talking about?

Scott Benner 1:08:38
I do. And ironically, I'm the worst person to describe the podcast to people because I'm so far ahead of where all of you are, right. You're that you're just like, I'm like the I'm like the guy that gets the episodes like before they come out. And so now I'm looking on my own website. Cuz that and that feels douchey just so you know,

Bonnie 1:09:01
No, I'm talking about like, yeah, I love that one. And I gave that one. I sent that one to like, all of my family and all of my friends. And I'm like, this, this is like diabetes basics. And like, this is what you know, I want you to know, and this is how I want you to talk about it to me, or you know, that kind of thing. So I love that one's episode

Scott Benner 1:09:24
371 It's called diabetes pro tip explaining type one.

Bonnie 1:09:28
Yes, that one. And I think that was really important. Because I actually really liked talking about it. I like when people ask me questions. So you know, oh, she's she's, she's high. What does that mean? Okay, well, that means and, and I think it's really important, and I keep trying to tell Abby, you know, again, maybe it's her. It's the age that she's at, but she's not. She doesn't hide her her Omnipod or her Dexcom. She paints the pods. Michigan loves it when people notice, like if they're pretty. And, you know, I keep telling her, you know, it's important that people that you help people understand this. So if people have questions, or if they're looking at something, you know, that's your opportunity to be like, Oh, well, this is what it is. And this is what it means. And, you know, I think that that's, that's really important. So I definitely took to that episode.

Scott Benner 1:10:31
I'm glad. I'm glad you liked it. I really am I, I love this podcast. So I you couldn't get me mad about it. I think it's amazing. I love how it finds people at all different parts of journeys, and that it seems to be able to help them like I just heard that from you. And at the same time, if I open my email, the email I got right before I went to bed last night was from somebody who's had diabetes for over 30 years and found the body. Yes, it did the exact same thing for them that it did for you. And so that's super exciting to me, that it that it applies. Took me years for people to say, Oh, this is just for parents, right? Like that. That would happen to me for years. And I was like, No, it's not like it works for everybody like insulin works the same in us. It does and a little kid. Fascinating, isn't it? And it really is. Yeah, right. So while everybody else is busy saying, you know, your diabetes may vary. I was like, Yeah, I get that. But I don't think that's true, necessarily. Like I mean, I do you see that it's different from person to person in scenario to scenario there's ton of variabilities. But at its core, Basal does what Basal does, you know, your Bolus is do what they do. And I think that along the way, people's misunderstanding about how insulin works, or their inability to apply it correctly, is what makes them think that diabetes varies so much. Because I know what Arden's blood sugar is. Meaning I can picture her last 24 hours. And if you picked up Arden throughout the window, brought a different person in here and drop them in here and said here, Scott, fix this person settings and and treat them like It's Arden for a day, then I'd have that person's blood sugar that way too late. And so so if that's the truth, and it is, then I think at with time, then anybody could do that. It's just important when you hear me say that to recognize that Arden's had diabetes since she was two, she is going to be 17 in a month or two, that I have been terrible at diabetes. I've been okay at it. I've been good at it. And I've been where I am now. And that it's a process and you're going to get to it. But you don't have to have 350 blood sugar's while you're figuring it out.

Bonnie 1:12:43
But no. And I also, like, I think that's also really important to hear, you know, because, yes, you're, you know, a master at it now. But I think it's also very important for people to hear you know, what, I sucked at it at one point. So, yeah, because, as parents, like, you know, we do feel bad when things don't go right for our kids, you know, where, you know, are like, I mess this up, or, you know, I'm doing harm to my child, you know, and, and

Scott Benner 1:13:12
a certain way, adults with type one feel the same exact way. They feel like they're hurting themselves. And it's just right, yeah, but they have the luxury of giving up where parents and I don't mean luxury in the exact sense of the word, but they do they have the luxury of being like, Oh, I can't do this, and like kind of letting it go in their head or pushing it to the back and not dealing with it. Whereas a parent, you're never going to be able to do that. Right? You know, you're just always gonna be like, I got to figure this out, I got to figure this out. I have to tell you that no one's ever equated me to anything from Star Wars. And I really appreciate that as a person who this is probably a story. I'll leave you with that. I don't think anybody have any reasonable age. That's not old can appreciate. But when the Empire Strikes Back came out in theaters. I believe it was 77 or 78 ish in that space, which makes me 678 years old, somewhere in there. And my entire school went to see the movie. Oh, wow. So my entire school, went to the front doors we lined up. So imagine every kid in the school got in a double line. It started at the front door. And it was it's like all through the building. And we just walked out the front door through the parking lot out to a sidewalk, probably a block and a half to the left, two blocks to the right, three blocks back to the right to the right again. We crossed a major highway like situations it's not like a highway but like a massive like five lane road. That and we've crossed that road into the parking lot of a strip center. We walked through the front of the parking lot into the front of this little Mall. And then we filled three theaters for theaters. Were all showing the Empire Strikes Back my entire school solid together. And then we went out the door. And then we went back the same exact way, a snake of children going through a town to go see Star Wars, which probably seems silly now that you can download it onto your phone.

Bonnie 1:15:21
But back then Well, right. But yeah, that's how we

Scott Benner 1:15:24
had to get to it. And it made it. It made it like huge in my mind, I miss your mommy to say something old. I missed that there's, I don't dislike that there's so many options in the world. But when things were more special, it made things more special. Like so. Oh, I'll never forget that. But I do not remember downloading movies that I loved. So I'll never have a story about that. That's for sure.

Bonnie 1:15:52
So now I remember when I remember seeing et and waiting for it to come out on VHS. And it was Monday, let's not like these things happened. Like quickly like they do now you know, where they're like, in the movie theater. And then like, you know, a few months later, you know, on streaming or whatever. But um, but yeah, no, it was no more than once. It was like a year or something before it came out. And I just remember waiting.

Scott Benner 1:16:22
Waiting and waiting waiting to see it one more time or exactly the Charlie Brown. Halloween special was only on once for 30 minutes a year and you haven't really defined it anywhere else. Which is Which by the way now that it's it's up. I can watch it whenever I want. I realize it's not very good. But great. But when you it's really just a bunch of little cartoon kids calling one kid stupid.

Bonnie 1:16:46
Right, right. When you break it down. Yeah, it's like

Scott Benner 1:16:49
that guy sums up. Let's throw a rock. It's basically like that. But yeah, that you could only see it one time. Like I remember being in a restaurant the Friday night that it was going to be on one time and and just sitting there sweating bullets looking at my parents like you. Don't you make it wait for Charlie Brown. Like we got to get home. And then just flopping yourself on the floor and watching it like he didn't move. You sat you watch the commercials? Because you were afraid if you walked away, you'd miss something. And, and that's why I know the mountains and enjoy commercials so well. Because they would always say true.

Bonnie 1:17:26
That's true. Like the kids I don't think no commercials very well. They don't watch.

Scott Benner 1:17:31
That's why when I'm singing jingles in my house, and my kids like what's wrong with you? I was like, oh my god that's drilled in my head. I can't forget that if they would have put out in commercials. Yeah, no algebra. Anyway, Bonnie is really nice talking to you. I appreciate you doing this.

Bonnie 1:17:49
It was nice speaking to you. Thank you. It's my pleasure,

Scott Benner 1:17:52
really. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about evoke hypo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL. You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I want to thank Bonnie for coming on the show and sharing her story. I want to thank you for listening for sharing the podcast with other people. And for just general and just generally for being terrific. I really appreciate how much you guys support the show. And listen and download and subscribe and I couldn't ask for anything more really wonderful group of people. Thank you so much. I'll be back very soon with another episode.

#582 Squiggles and Squats

Mallory Hart is a type 1, an artists and a lot of fun!

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 582 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today on the podcast I'll be speaking with Mallory. She is an adult living with type one diabetes and an artist. You can check her out on Instagram at Mallory heart art. It sounds like it's spelled, and there's no E in heart. Mallory Heart, heart, heart, heart. Heart, heart, heart, heart, Mallory heart. Anyway, she's got a really great style. If you want to check her out while we're talking. You should. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. I did that in one breath. And now I feel like I'm gonna pass out. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox from the US. Are you do you have diabetes? Are you the caregiver of someone with type one head over there? Take the survey support the show support people living with type one diabetes take you less than 10 minutes. I promised T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor and Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash and the Omni pod promise, which I'll tell you about just a little bit later. But for now, Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. And dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Oh my God, my voice is getting so deep links in the show notes. Links at juicebox podcast.com. And I think I could play alert on the Addams Family right now. Ready? You writing? I hope I'm not getting sick.

Mallory Hart 2:13
Okay, I hope I do good.

Scott Benner 2:15
Oh, what do you mean, you hope you do? Good? Do you worry you're not gonna do well? Yeah, hold on a second. I gotta get something off the shelf. Wait.

Alright, tell me what you mean that you feel like you're not going to do that?

Mallory Hart 2:30
I don't know. You know, I was what I want to ask you is how many of these do you record that you never aired? Because they were just so bad? It's

Scott Benner 2:36
my favorite question. How many do you think that I've recorded that? I've not aired because they were bad.

Unknown Speaker 2:41
Five? Zero.

Scott Benner 2:44
Wait, I've never, I've never I've never thought that was terrible. No one gets to hear that.

Mallory Hart 2:49
First one right here.

Scott Benner 2:53
This thing here, just in case you're right. One because the sound was so terrible. And the person I was talking to was an older person, they could not hear me. And I could not talk to them properly. So it's just a disaster. Sure that one wasn't because of what they were saying. It was because it couldn't be recorded. Well, sure. There's one that was never aired, because the person said something. said something about their gender. And they were traveling to a foreign country and were concerned that they would be recognized from the podcast. So they asked not to play it, which is a shame because it was really good. And there was one that I recorded that I think the person I was speaking to had a mental breakdown during the conversation. And out of respect for them. I didn't put it out, but I've never not put anything out because somebody just was terrible. Well, okay, alright, so it's not a real big bar to jump over Mallory, but I mean, you could be the first one. I guess. I could, we can try. So I've now introduced you. So you don't need to do that anyway, anymore.

Mallory Hart 4:09
Okay, well, I'm still Mallory. And I'm still here. And I still have type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 4:13
So when were you diagnosed?

Mallory Hart 4:15
I was I'm 29 now and I was diagnosed in February in seventh grade, which is in 2005 2005.

Scott Benner 4:23
Wow, you're 29 Now does it feel like a long time?

Mallory Hart 4:33
I mean, it's been more than half my life. That I do remember life without it, but it is just my life now. It's what it's what I do, and it's what I know. Yeah, I think I think it does feel like a long time.

Scott Benner 4:47
Do you have a go to moment when you think of life before diabetes? Is there a scene in your head that you picture more frequently than others?

Mallory Hart 4:56
You know, I used to my mom and I would like go to the mall when I was a kid and we'd get like, you know, like a giant like, like one of the giant cookies with like the frosting in the middle or the make it like a sandwich. And I'm sure we did this after I got diabetes as well. But I couldn't do that today. I would worry too much.

Scott Benner 5:15
If you ate that cookie. Yeah, your blood sugar would shoot up.

Mallory Hart 5:18
Yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 5:21
You haven't had one of those cookies since you've been an adult?

Mallory Hart 5:24
Well, I don't think most adults would have that much frosting, cookie. And I, I probably have had the equivalent, I definitely love my sugar and my sweets. And really don't care it I'll give myself as much insulin as I need. But at the same time you're doing that was always like in the moment spontaneous thing.

Scott Benner 5:45
Like, hey, you and I are out. We're shopping. Let's get one of these big sugary cookies. Yeah, it just was never that simple again.

Mallory Hart 5:54
Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's still not for you. Yeah. You know, though, at the same time, the beginning of diabetes. You know, I wonder how how I made it this far.

Scott Benner 6:07
Wait a minute. Wait. You mean from where you started with where the technology was? And where the the the ideas were?

Mallory Hart 6:14
Yeah, we didn't know a lot. And I was, you know, I was a young teenager. And I didn't want to listen to my parents. I didn't want to listen to my mom. And they would try. But I didn't. You know, I wasn't listening to them. They could only tell me to do so much.

Scott Benner 6:27
Well, maybe you were right. I mean, looking back now that they really know what they're talking about.

Mallory Hart 6:32
You know, I don't know.

Scott Benner 6:36
How do you not want to say that they didn't know or you're not sure.

Mallory Hart 6:40
They tried. They knew. But there was only so much we could know. You know, I had I had really good doctors, and they would try but

Scott Benner 6:49
yeah, so what happened that made you feel like it wasn't going well? Was it hindsight stuff? Like you didn't know in the moment? You weren't doing? Well? Did you?

Mallory Hart 6:57
Yeah. I would say maybe five, six years ago. I really started caring, maybe less. I found the podcast maybe two years ago. But I would say about a year and a half before that. I've gotten my agency down to the sixes and I was you know, carrying I got my Dexcom

Scott Benner 7:20
Well, I was gonna say, was it that you didn't care? Or was it you didn't know how?

Mallory Hart 7:26
I think I didn't care. And every time I would think about it, it was so overwhelming. Yeah, go I have to check my blood sugar that many times and I have to pay attention to all these things. But it's so much easier if I just don't,

Scott Benner 7:37
okay. I want to understand not caring. conscious. Lee don't care. Like, what's the example I want? I'm gonna jump off a 10 foot wall. I'll probably break my leg. I don't care. Here I go. Or was it the? This is hard. I won't do well, if I try. And so I'm not going to try. And then I pretend I don't care about the outcome to get myself through this bar.

Mallory Hart 8:01
Yeah, I think the second one, I think the second one. Alright. So now definitely I give myself insulin when I eat. But I was testing my blood sugar once or twice a day at best.

Scott Benner 8:10
Okay. And you were just injections.

Mallory Hart 8:14
I've had no I had a pump since freshman year high school. I got a pump. Oh.

Scott Benner 8:20
But still just treating the pump was just a replacement for injections, though. It wasn't any, like, kind of advanced tool.

Mallory Hart 8:27
Yeah, yeah. When I, when I first started out, you know, we were on the two different types of insulin. I think one was Hume log, and one was probably the NPH you know, when was cloudy to mix them together. And, and then when we started talking about getting a pump, we started to do Lantis. And he blogged for, I don't know, we did that maybe for six months or so. And that was really just to kind of get you used to

Scott Benner 8:51
a little bit more. The more modern at that point, the more modern practice of having a Yeah, Basal insulin and a meal insulin, and then you would eventually go to a pump or just I guess Hume log was in the pump and then you were done with everything.

Mallory Hart 9:04
Yeah.

Scott Benner 9:06
Okay, hold on a second. Are you still nervous?

Mallory Hart 9:09
I'm good. Are you good?

Scott Benner 9:11
Nice. Were you nervous at the beginning, though? Or were you just like being funny about stalking?

Mallory Hart 9:15
Um, no, I'm nervous. I'm a nervous person. In general. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 9:21
just made this little noise. It was like a little laugh. I don't even know if you know, you made it. And I'm gonna leave it in because it's kind of cute. I can't even replicate it. If I try. That would sound silly. If you say if you do it again. I'm going to point it out to you. But okay, so you're a little nervous by by nature.

Mallory Hart 9:42
Sure. Yeah.

Scott Benner 9:43
You're nervous by nature. Do you remember naughty by nature? Are these young for that?

Mallory Hart 9:50
Or just don't know it. The movie? I'm bad at movies. I don't see movies. So

Scott Benner 9:55
I think it was a band. Okay, yeah.

Mallory Hart 10:00
Oh no, no, no.

Scott Benner 10:00
Wait, hold on a second. I'm gonna read you some lyrics. And if you don't know, that's fine, but there's no way you don't Alright, ready? Okay, I'm not gonna read well I don't think I should read them all maybe I just Well alright, let's go let's go for this I'm just gonna read it very phonetically army with harmony. Dave drop a load on them opp How can I explain it? I'll take you through nothing alright well let's jump to the let's alright let's jump down to the now we're just gonna do the course you download opp yeah you know me you down with opp yeah you know me nope wow that was 1991 How old were you in 1991

Mallory Hart 10:58
I was born in November of 91

Scott Benner 11:00
There's no way you would this wouldn't come back around for you. Wow we i How did we trip into a song that actually came out? The year you were born? That's strange, but you still haven't heard that

Mallory Hart 11:14
maybe I have I can't say that I have familiar

Scott Benner 11:20
I don't think I can play it for you. I don't think I'm setting up the play it for you. Experience matters so you can't hear that right what I'm hearing Yes, okay, hold on

I'm gonna have to cut this out later because you don't know

Mallory Hart 11:44
that. Maybe it's okay. I think I've heard

Scott Benner 11:47
I we're gonna go deeper into the song Hold on. Jumping. Gaming. Fun to know about how many brothers out there notice what

Alright, if you've never heard that you've never heard it.

Mallory Hart 12:10
I think I've heard it, but I don't know it. All right. What kind of music do you like? Um, I I like a lot of dark industrial type of music, but also a lot of like ad stuff.

Scott Benner 12:24
I guess there was no way you were gonna know that when you describe the music you like in a way that left me not knowing what that music was. So whatever we go dark industrial music Give me a band name that I would know.

Mallory Hart 12:37
Oh, I don't know what you would know. Well, what whatever. I don't I mean, the most like mainstream you can kind of get would be like Nine Inch Nails. But yeah, yeah, but then it that. That's like, like the surface you know,

Scott Benner 12:51
I say there's a deeper dive. Yeah. Are you bothered the Trent Reznor makes like movie music now? Yeah, he can do what he wants to do what he wants. Look at you with your fine, your beautiful hippie attitude. You don't care. If you're not from the upper Northwest, then I'm Where are you from?

Mallory Hart 13:09
I'm in Colorado, Colorado. That was close enough in Denver. Yeah, same thing.

Scott Benner 13:14
Yeah, you've got that vibe about you. I had no idea where you were from. But I was going Seattle, Colorado, like somewhere in that swipe of the country right

Mallory Hart 13:23
there. I mean, those are very different types of the country. But yeah, not to

Scott Benner 13:27
me. Not when I'm generalizing. It isn't Mallory's exactly the same. Please let it go. Yeah, yeah. No, you just have an easy way about you. You're not interested in voicing your opinion on to me. It's, uh, you didn't criticize naughty by nature, which I mean, let's be clear. Anybody could have like, anyone could have been like, Yo, Scott. You know, I don't know this. Because it sounds horrible. That's what you could have said, but you were just like, No, I don't know that. I don't think you're very sweet. Are you sweet in the rest of your life? Like kind?

Mallory Hart 14:01
I like to think so. Yeah.

Scott Benner 14:03
What other people say that you're? Sure. I don't even know what that means. Okay. All right. Now I have to get back in focus. I don't know how that happened to me. Just now. I apologize. Let me just say right now I'm sorry for what just happened with the transpiring? What happened? So you have a pump. And it's not a tool for like, I'm gonna make extended Bolus is in conquer fat and protein rises. You're just like, I don't have to get shots now. Yay. For me.

Mallory Hart 14:32
Yeah, I remember when I when we first did my pump training. And I was it was a refresh and it might have been sophomore year. But, you know, there's like the extended Bolus and the square Bolus teacher and they basically told us they're like, Hey, you don't you don't need to worry about that now and then. never brought it up again. Yes, yes.

Scott Benner 14:51
For now, don't let the tiger bite you. Now after you learn how to keep the tiger from biting you. We're going to teach you all kinds of tricks, where the tricks and never mind that's nice. So how many how many years? Do you think you lived in that kind of space?

Mallory Hart 15:09
More than I haven't, I think I Yeah. Yeah, I would say I think I got my agency down to like the sixes maybe five years ago. But, you know, before that, but I made it before and fine.

Scott Benner 15:22
Before that. What was before that? Are you unwilling to say or would you rather not?

Mallory Hart 15:27
Um, usually maybe nines 10s? I never knew what my agency was because they would tell me to back Well, that's bad. And then I would just erase it on my memory and, you know, go on for the next three months of my life until they would tell me again.

Scott Benner 15:41
Did they try to scare you?

Mallory Hart 15:43
No, no, they tried to help me. I had really good doctors and the the pediatric endo I had, he's great. And I really liked him a lot. And he did. He did great things for me, but I didn't care quite as much Do your

Scott Benner 15:59
parents lean into you? Try to get you to care.

Mallory, did I miss that I lose you or do you not want to say hello, Mallory's you. Yeah, there you are. You're back. I was like, oh my god, I asked you if your parents tried to,

Mallory Hart 16:22
I can't hear you. Talking

Scott Benner 16:24
testing, test, test, test and test test. Testing, testing, hello testing.

While Scott from back then fixes the technical problems, Scott right now is gonna sell you an insulin pump. Omnipod in fact, alibaba.com forward slash juice box. When you get there, you're gonna find a tubeless insulin pump. That's not something you see every day my friend. Usually those insulin pumps or little electronic boxes with tubing that come off of them and then they kind of snakes through your clothing and goes to an infusion set and it can get pulled off a number of different ways actually, roughhousing doorknobs handles in the kitchen. You ever have that happen? You have a handle in the kitchen, like the doorknob, like get a belt loop and it almost like yanks you right off your feet. Imagine that that got your tubing on your insulin pump, but comes right off, right? Am I right now with the Omni pod because there's no tubing. So they called a tubeless insulin pump. Anyway, now that you understand Omni pod.com forward slash juice box you head over there and you get yourself an omni pod. As a matter of fact, you may be eligible for listen to what you may be eligible for a free 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash. Are you kidding me? I try all the Omni potash for 30 days for free for you. I mean, you're just a regular person. But now you're getting a free insulin pump. I mean, you gotta go check it out, right on the pod.com forward slash juice box. And if you're one of those people who says okay, Scott, but I'm gonna wait till the next big thing comes from Omni pod. You don't have to wait for that. You don't have to do that. Because with the Omni pod promise, you can upgrade to Omni pods latest technologies for no additional cost as soon as they're available to you and covered by your insurance terms and conditions apply, of course. But you'll find out all about that again at the link here and I'm saying you can get going today with tubeless insulin pumping. And if something else comes up in the future, no problem on the pod promises that you can upgrade as long as it's covered by your insurance. It's pretty fair. omnipod.com forward slash juice box. Get yourself the insulin pump my daughter's been using since she was four years old. My daughter who's getting ready to go to college. You know what else Harden's gonna take to college with her Dexcom right now she's wearing the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor and let me tell you something. I thank whoever it is. You think like think of the person you think that's the person I think every day, like, Oh, thank you. That's what I say. To myself. It's private in my heads. It's fine. I'm not mentally ill. I'm not talking to myself. What are you doing? What are you trying to say right now? No, not you them. Alright, I'm kidding. Dexcom. Makers. I don't think I can leave that in. Maybe I can Dexcom makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. I'm gonna whip out my phone right now my iPhone. It's actually already opened. I did it while I was talking. Arden's blood sugar 91. Oh, just like that. was fighting with a little bit of a high blood sugar this afternoon. I decided I needed to make some changes to her settings. How do I decide that? I looked at her Dexcom I saw what was happening. And I said, I don't want this to happen. Let me just make a little turn of a knob here and a little adjustment there. And just like that 91 level and love it all from that information. Right? I just took what I know about diabetes. I looked at that Dexcom thing and I said I think Arden needs a tiny bit more Basal. I think our insulin sensitivity needs to be able little stronger, crank, crank, crank, turn, turn, turn, like plenty. It's like a wrench. I got a wrench on. All right. All right, anyway, it's not the point, I use the data that came back from the Dexcom. And you could do, you could also share this data with up to 10. Followers. You can do it on Android or iPhone. You can see your blood sugar in real time. Not just the number, but the speed and direction. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Do it. Do it now. I'm here. You know, that's predator. Right. Schwarzenegger yells at the predator. Do it. Do it now. I'm here. Kill me something like that. Anyway. Dexcom go get it. Hello.

Mallory Hart 20:42
Hello. I can hear you now. I think it was my headphones, because I just disconnected them as well. And we connected them. Okay. I think we're good now.

Scott Benner 20:48
So I so after you said that you had you know, you had good doctors. They tried to help you, but you didn't care. I said, did your parents lean into you? Did they try to make you care? And then there's so much silence. And I'm like, Oh my God, I've hit on some deep, deep seated tragedy inside of Mallory. And then I finally go. Mallory, can you hear me? You weren't there. So yeah. Anyway, did your parents like Were your parents with you at those appointments?

Mallory Hart 21:13
My mom was my mom was always there. And she tried to care. But I think you know, like, you know, when you're like in the car and you test your blood sugar, she's like, well, what's the number? What's the number? And it's like, just I'm not I'm never gonna say this number. Do not ask me like, this is not the way to get the number. I don't know what the wait for her was. I don't think there was a right answer for her.

Scott Benner 21:31
I have to tell you. I think a lot of people end up saying that a lot of adults in your situation looking backwards say, I don't know what my mom or dad could have actually done that would have gotten me to that place. Sure. Yeah. Is it the age maybe?

Mallory Hart 21:46
Yeah, I definitely think it was the age. I think that

Scott Benner 21:50
were you a problematic child in other ways?

Mallory Hart 21:54
No, I think I mean, I was an only child. Um, but I think I was pretty good.

Scott Benner 21:59
I didn't mean to say that you were problematic in diabetes. I just meant like, were you like, like, what was your free time spent with? Were you you know, cooking math? Or,

Mallory Hart 22:08
like, you know what? I mean? No, no. No, I was a good kid. I didn't I hung up by myself. I did a lot of art on my own. Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:21
you know, artists now for live. Yeah, that's that's my job. Yeah, you make the money that way. That is very do so is there something introspective about you? Are you an internal person?

Mallory Hart 22:36
Hmm, I don't know. I think yeah, maybe? Maybe. I've never thought about it like that. So yeah, we're gonna

Scott Benner 22:42
think about it like that now. So like, you don't worry. Don't worry. She never did. We'll just work it out right now with everybody listening. Meaning would your friends know your kind of inner thoughts? Where are they yours? Personally?

Mallory Hart 22:58
I think their mind

Scott Benner 22:59
okay. And the anQ would you call yourself anxious or cuz you said nervous. Remember we said by nature? Yes. I am anxious. Okay. Had you said anxious we never would have heard down with opp by the way. Then my ADHD would have jumped around like it did, which I don't believe I have, but that's not the point. So you have a lot like a level of anxiety. Is it a level that needs medication?

Mallory Hart 23:26
No, no, I've tried it in the past and it didn't really help so I was better off without it.

Scott Benner 23:30
Do you? Do you go with the the state bird of Colorado?

Mallory Hart 23:35
And yeah, yeah, sometimes I do. That's how you manage sometimes I wouldn't say I you know, I use that you know, regularly. But

Scott Benner 23:47
how does that come? I just may I ask you again? I want to I want to understand how that happens if you're not a regular smoker, then what happens in your life that makes you go I know what I need right now it's to hit some weed those words but I'm saying

Mallory Hart 24:03
yes yes those words exactly. Yeah, but no I think I never did in high school or anything because I was a good kid. You asked that I was good. But I think just curiosity

Scott Benner 24:16
curiosity got you started but what makes you today as an adult say I'm gonna do this today is it like life stress or or is it pleasure

Mallory Hart 24:29
it just it just helps you relax and I'll often use them and then I'll you know sit down for four hours and knock out a painting so I use a lot of details my painting so it'll just help me like focus and get them done.

Scott Benner 24:46
By focused you mean take away outside stressors like anxiety?

Mallory Hart 24:54
Yeah.

Scott Benner 24:56
You I don't know if you're agreeing with me because I'm the host of the show where You believe what you're saying?

Mallory Hart 25:01
No, I think I think so. I think so I'm often not good at figuring out what I'm thinking and putting into words. So I'm, the gears are turning while you're talking. That's okay. Yeah, I mean, I think it just did from the distractions and I could just focus on one thing and do what I want. And if I don't want to do that, that's fine.

Scott Benner 25:22
I I'm understanding now I'm starting to get it. So need to focus, have anxious thoughts, probably that are underlying, I don't imagine you're aware of them constantly. And then smoke a little bit. And then the anxious thoughts go away, then you can focus on the thing you want to do or relax? Yeah, I got it. Okay. Would that have been valuable when you were younger?

Mallory Hart 25:56
I don't know. I don't think I had as much anxiety when I was younger. I don't know why I do now. Honestly, I do think that it does seem, the more controlled, I got my diabetes and my numbers, the more anxiety I have over them not being good. And I'm sure that's fairly normal as well.

Scott Benner 26:17
So when you're just kind of throwing, throwing it to the wind, yeah, none of it mattered, but now you're paying attention to it. And so just the sheer process of paying attention adds other things to be concerned about. And they those things come to you as anxiety.

Mallory Hart 26:34
Yeah, I think so. Wow.

Scott Benner 26:36
It's interesting. I'm not anxious. So I'm always fascinated when people talk about it. Sure. Yeah. It's it really is interesting to me. And I don't know that there's a way through it. Other than, you know, the things people do. I mean, I mean, if we're being honest, and we look at society in general, most people probably drink right. And now more and more people are smoking. I mean, these are, these are steps to to help with this kind of stuff, I imagine.

Mallory Hart 27:04
Yeah, yeah, I definitely don't drink I only drink iced water. I just don't like the taste of anything else.

Scott Benner 27:08
You do not come off as a drinker at all? Yeah, like, what kind of art do you do?

Mallory Hart 27:15
I mostly I paint a lot of skulls and animals. I do a lot of cats as well. There's genre.

Scott Benner 27:23
How do I make money with us? What how do we make money with this?

Mallory Hart 27:27
Well, I sell my work. I mainly I travel around the country to expos shows conventions, that kind of thing. And I set up a booth and I sell prints, patches and pins, stickers on my work and that kind of thing.

Scott Benner 27:40
That is really cool. I could do on the interweb. It was very easy. Yeah, you can Mallory heart art. That's me. That's nice. I'm looking now. Lovely. Yeah, look at this.

Mallory Hart 27:53
Yeah. And then and I also I paint theater sets as well. It's kind of my day job. Once that comes back. When the world comes back, it will be at least

Scott Benner 28:01
tell me with that. And then what that means.

Mallory Hart 28:05
I paint theater sets for theater shows. I work for one of the biggest theatrical companies in Colorado, and we make the scenery.

Scott Benner 28:17
Oh, no kidding. So backgrounds. He kind of set the mood with with that. Is that what you're saying?

Mallory Hart 28:24
Yeah, yeah. So you know, the carpenters will build the set, and we'll texture it, paint it, carve it, whatever needs to be done.

Scott Benner 28:32
How do you get so interested in painting skulls? Like what's the what brought you to that?

Mallory Hart 28:37
The schools, you know, I really liked the texture. You know, I like I like darker things. That's always been the stuff that I've liked. And I started doing schools and I just kind of really got into them. I like the texture and like the little like divots you can get and they're all a little bit different. And then they started selling well. So once they started selling well, I just kind of keep doing them.

Scott Benner 28:55
Okay, kidding. It this one's really cool. skull with waters and black.

Mallory Hart 28:59
Yeah, like that.

Scott Benner 29:01
I mean, that there's a lot here. That's really why you're very talented. Congratulations. Well, thank you. Is this something you have to work out? Or was it very natural for you?

Mallory Hart 29:13
I mean, I'm, I'm a believer that talent doesn't really exist, that it's more of like something I enjoyed to do. So I kept doing it. And, you know, built up the skills and just, you know, putting hours into it and time into it is what makes me good at it. You know, each school the first one I painted is a lot worse than the last one I painted and they get better and there's ones that you know, you paint things over time and it's like, well, that's not good and you don't ever show that. But you have to paint, you know, X amount of bad paintings before you'll have any good paintings.

Scott Benner 29:43
Do you work in one medium, or do you jump around?

Mallory Hart 29:47
I jumped around. Most of my work is watercolor. But I do jump around. I'll do acrylic and oil sometimes, but mostly I stick to watercolor for now.

Scott Benner 29:58
You're more comfortable talking about About this and the other stuff that you know that what I do I just made you uncomfortable again. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's sort of like a thing I'm trying. Yeah.

Mallory Hart 30:10
Wow. And I, I also work in theater as well. So I'll run shows and concerts and stuff, you know, backstage and as a camera operator right now, the times were in, but

Scott Benner 30:22
so the COVID has caused you to have to branch out a little bit, or was it something you were already doing? You're just doing more of it.

Mallory Hart 30:29
It's just something the venue I worked for has transferred to doing

Scott Benner 30:35
sound testing? Where were you? When I was looking for a logo? Jesus, come on Mauer

Mallory Hart 30:39
would have done it for you.

Scott Benner 30:40
If you didn't know you then. Or, I mean, it would have been nice. Really lovely. You've been listening the podcast for a couple years. You said? Yeah. What What led you to find it?

Mallory Hart 30:54
It was one of your Dexcom CEO, interviews in another, you know, less than great diabetes Facebook group. Someone had posted an interview with a Dexcom CEO. And I said, that looks interesting. And I listened to it and

Scott Benner 31:06
own it was mine. Yeah. And then I was so amazing. You just kept listening. Exactly. See, that's what I thought. Now we're starting to get the hang of this now. Good job, Mauer. Yeah. You really talented. I have to get off your website, or I'm going to be able to talk to you. That's very cool. Oh, look at that pin. I would like that pen. Alright, Mallory, Hart. Art. And if you ever fart, I guess we could probably do another URL. But you don't fart? Probably. No, never. I didn't imagine. Yeah, I your stuffs really great. Good for you. That's really amazing. When did you start? When did you start with? With painting? How old were you?

Mallory Hart 31:48
Yeah, I've been, I've been drawing my entire life. You know, my mom always likes to say like, when I was in preschool, the rest of the class was like watching a movie. And I was nothing to do with the movie. And I would be drawing outside of the room. So I've always kind of done it. And then in high school, I had a really good art teacher and I got serious about it. And I went to art school. I have a degree in illustration. Where'd you go? Can you say? Yeah, I went to Rocky Mountain College of Art and Design here in Denver.

Scott Benner 32:13
Are you a Colorado born and bred person?

Mallory Hart 32:16
Yep. I like it here. So I've never left. Yeah,

Scott Benner 32:18
I thought nice. When you're, um, when when you went dead and you couldn't hear me. I thought maybe your headphones got high. And then I was like, that's what happened. They smoked in here. I don't know what happened. Now. It doesn't matter. Okay, so now. So you so you come to the podcast to the Dexcom interview? And then do you? And now you have more tools, but you say the tools make you anxious? Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Mallory Hart 32:47
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way. But you know, before, you know, I might be feeling off or something. I bet. Okay, well, let me test my blood sugar. And I would say 250. I bet. Okay, well, that's high. I'll give myself some insulin, but that's not why I'm feeling bad. You know, that wasn't a it was a high number, but it wasn't an out of normal number. But you know, now I'm like, oh, it's trending up. It's 150. You know, not that bad yet, but it's going up and then you know, get anxious about that. And then I have to continuously watch it and what kind of thing what

Scott Benner 33:19
happens? But what about your outcomes? Are your outcomes better than they were three or four years ago? Oh, 100%. Okay. And does that make you feel better? Physically?

Mallory Hart 33:30
Yes. To make you I feel I feel worse sooner. You know, if I'm above 200. Now, I feel awful.

Scott Benner 33:36
Yeah, that's good. By the way. Yeah, no, yeah. No. How about like, emotionally? Are you happier with yourself? Like, is there any feeling of contentment or not contentment that you succeeded somehow? Does it feel like you're helping yourself?

Mallory Hart 33:58
Yes, yes. But then I also I go back, I'm like, Well, the first 10 years I didn't do so well, and what damage have I done? You know, and there's nothing I could do to go back. I can't ever change that. It's the day, whatever, whatever is done is done. And it might hit me later. And it might not. You know, I worry mostly about my eyes because of what I do. They're important. And I'd like to keep them. Good. So I, you know, see the eye doctor at Barbara Davis. And he's really great. You know, but he sees signs of bad things happening and it's just kind of a do good now and see what happens and we'll never, it might get worse, and it might not. I won't

Scott Benner 34:37
know. Are they doing anything right now? Are they stepping in? Or no?

Mallory Hart 34:41
I just go yearly and they take the photos of my eyes and look at the depth for the dead squiggles and compare them to the last year's dead squiggles and see if we have any more dead squiggles and

Scott Benner 34:51
head squiggles. That's if that wasn't such a bummer. That is the name of the podcast.

Mallory Hart 34:58
It's fine, but that's fine.

Scott Benner 35:00
If you can, if you could just go for something slightly more upbeat the next time you're very, very, very thoughtful about that, I'd appreciate it. I actually, you know, I went back to your website, there's something wrong with me. Like, I'm shallow. I'm like, I can't look. But you said, you're really, really you're doing just very talented. How do you get information about the website out? Like, how do you do that?

Mallory Hart 35:23
Well, I'm, I'd say, I'm most active on Instagram. That's where I build most of my following. And then when I travel to shows, you know, I give out my business card, and people see me and then they might buy something, and they might follow me later, they might just take a card and follow me. Um, but you know, if they're on my Instagram, and they see something they liked, and they would go to my website to buy it.

Scott Benner 35:42
Gotcha. It's really something. I think I'm, I think I'm partially interested because I have no artistic ability. And that's, that's, it's just, it's, it seems very impressive that you do to me, like I couldn't, like if you if you told me, it meant my life, to do anything. That was even symmetrical. I don't think I could handle that. I guess I'm gonna die if I gotta make both sides of this look equal. So

Mallory Hart 36:14
big tools for that, you know, we have rulers and I draw a line down the middle and measure and

Scott Benner 36:19
you're being kind I wouldn't be able to find it.

Mallory Hart 36:21
I just be tracing paper. You know, we got things. Oh,

Scott Benner 36:24
I see. You're cheating is what you're saying. Yeah. So you're really only talented at drawing one half of it.

Mallory Hart 36:36
Yeah, you got to use the right tools to do the right thing. You got to make the job easier.

Scott Benner 36:40
That's really cool. I am. I'm just very impressed. And you're young. Still how old? You say you are.

Mallory Hart 36:46
I'm 29.

Scott Benner 36:48
And now I'm seeing a set from a play. Well, no kidding. Yeah. That really adds so much depth and everything to to what's happening. Oh, that's a I'm jealous. So not have your anxiety, though, that you can have. But the other stuff. Thanks. Cool. Oh, thank you. 29 dating? Got a purse? I

Mallory Hart 37:11
haven't. I have a husband. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's awesome.

Scott Benner 37:16
Where do we meet him?

Mallory Hart 37:18
We went to high school together.

Scott Benner 37:19
Oh, he's known you the entire time. You've had diabetes?

Mallory Hart 37:24
Yep. We went to high school together. We did you know, theater together in high school. And we both work in theater now.

Scott Benner 37:31
So hey, is he at all involved with your diabetes?

Mallory Hart 37:37
Yeah, yeah, he knows. He knows what's up. He follows my Dexcom hope. You know, if he gets the urgent low alarm, he'll call me from wherever he's at and make sure things are good.

Scott Benner 37:49
So he's kind of like a warning system for you.

Mallory Hart 37:52
Yeah, he did want to put my insulin in the freezer on a trip. But other than that, he's, he's good

Scott Benner 37:58
in a hotel. Yeah. We're very upset.

Mallory Hart 38:03
We were we drove in for a show and it was late and he's like, can we put that in the fridge for you? And I said yes. And he was tired and put it in the freezer and I had a set change the next morning I had to do it I get to it and was not good.

Scott Benner 38:16
Now you just very artfully did not answer my question at all. Were

Mallory Hart 38:19
you angry? What was the question?

Scott Benner 38:21
Were you angry?

Mallory Hart 38:22
I was angry. Yes. But at the same time, he knew he screwed that up.

Scott Benner 38:27
And he let him off the hook a little. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just one was it like a lot of would you do? Did you go with words are dirty looks or how to handle Exactly. Do you remember?

Mallory Hart 38:39
I don't think I had to do much he knew.

Scott Benner 38:43
It's a wonderful power that you have. Mm hmm. Yeah. i It's so one of the things I'm most jealous about for women in relationships is just that whole, like, I could be as upset as I like, I could be legitimately upset and I don't think it would impact my wife at all. I don't think she'd be like, Oh, no, obviously, I've messed up. I think she would completely immediately turn around on me and go Why are you acting like this? Mm hmm. Guys have a superpower. That's all kids making babies or anything like that?

Mallory Hart 39:17
No, no, not for me.

Scott Benner 39:18
Not for you. 100% Not

Mallory Hart 39:20
for me. How come? I I like mice. I'm too obsessed with myself. Like I wouldn't be able to travel and do my shows. I don't I don't want any of that. I have cats and a dog and that's great. I love them.

Scott Benner 39:34
Children would not fit your lifestyle.

Mallory Hart 39:36
No, no and I wouldn't enjoy it and

Scott Benner 39:40
I think I know you would enjoy having children by the by the mere fact that you said I would enjoy it. Those things would not be enjoyable to me. No, it's your mom ever talk to you about it?

Mallory Hart 39:57
Not really

Scott Benner 40:00
She doesn't she doesn't, like hold you up a little bit ever.

Mallory Hart 40:05
No, no, I think she realizes it's not not happening.

Scott Benner 40:09
Does she have other kids? No, I'm an only child. Right? You said you were an only child. Yep. Okay, well, that's very nice for not to give you a crap, don't you think? Mm hmm. Now, I don't know, you and I, I don't understand you. Sometimes you get so chatty about the art and on the other stuff. You're just like, I think I could say anything and you would agree with it. Is that true?

Mallory Hart 40:36
No, no, definitely not.

Scott Benner 40:39
Did you see me answer? You asked you that question on purpose that you would say no. No. Oh, okay. Is my sarcasm okay for you?

Mallory Hart 40:48
Yes, I love it. I'm a very sarcastic person myself. So

Scott Benner 40:53
are you out sarcastic me right now? And I'm not aware of it. Am I now, what do you think of that? That's funny. What's the last play you worked on?

Mallory Hart 41:11
Oh, it's been so long. You know, we haven't done theater for a year and a half at this point. But I truly don't know the last set that I've been we've done. I've done some little stuff. That's not necessarily for a play. We did like a Christmas. Or you want to call it a Christmas, like drive up walk through events at our theaters. So I made some cutouts for that, you know, some cutouts? Like take a picture in front of kind of thing.

Scott Benner 41:39
Yeah, okay. I understand. You're saying all right, but there's just nobody's out in the mountain. So nobody's going to

Mallory Hart 41:44
I mean, we can't we can't. The main theater that I do all my set work for. They can't afford to open up until there's no capacity limits or social distancing. I get it.

Scott Benner 41:59
I see. Yeah, yeah, they have to fill every seat in order to make it

Unknown Speaker 42:02
work. Yes.

Scott Benner 42:06
If it never came back, what would you do?

Mallory Hart 42:09
Um, I mean, eventually, I want to do my art full time. I'd love to be able to be successful at that enough. But right now most only about 50% of my my work life.

Scott Benner 42:23
Do you have like, do you have like a another like paying job?

Mallory Hart 42:28
I work in the other theatre backstage running shows pitches that we're doing hammers. Yeah. And we're doing at that theater. We're doing some shows at limited capacity. And we're live streaming everything. So.

Scott Benner 42:39
Oh, cool. I see. A lot of comedy shows are starting to happen again. I think that's got to be the beginning of

Mallory Hart 42:46
all this. Yeah, yeah. We're

Scott Benner 42:47
getting there. You know, the music I would imagine would be next. The

Mallory Hart 42:51
world's coming back. We're on the tail end of this. We're getting there. I've traveled for a couple shows on my art so far. I have another one at the end of this month. So are you vaccinating there? Yeah, yeah, I got I got an early I lucked out.

Scott Benner 43:08
Nice. I just got mine the other day. The lady I got j&j. Sona need one. Okay. But the lady went really high on my show. So I shouldn't Well, anyway, whatever. So I get there, right. And the woman's wearing a little name tag, and it's like her name. RN Miko was she's a nurse. That's nice. But she was how do I want to say this? She was a couple of years past where I would be hoping she'd be given me an injection. Just older, if I'm being clear. And there's a pat like a, I don't know if it was an Android pad or an iPad or something that she had to set the whole thing up on. And so after what felt like an eternity of her trying to work the iPad. She even joked she goes, Don't worry. I'm way better at the needle part than I am at the iPad. And I was like, Oh, I wasn't worried. And I laughed. But what I was thinking is Oh, good, because you're terrible at running this iPad. I am concerned about your dexterity all the sudden cuz she was trying to push buttons and missing them. You know what I mean? You were What's your mom do that on the phone? Like my mom? Yes. Yeah. It's Oh my god, it's okay. She's been a nurse probably like, forever, right? Like, she was probably Abraham Lincoln's nurse. So this will be fine. Not considering that Abraham Lincoln died. And maybe that that wouldn't have been a good thing. But so she's like, pops off the needle. And I'm like, Okay, what arm I said last and I put it out there and I relaxed my arm and everything. And then she just felt like she stabbed me in the socket of my shell. Like, oh, my whole arm hurt, like, instantly and then the pain like ran down a little bit. And she pulled it out and like God damn, like, she's like, how is that? I go, great. Thanks. She goes, Do you need a bandaid? And I said, Why don't you tell me if I need a band aid and she goes, doesn't look like you do and I said, Well, then I'm not going to take a band aid and i i left but then like a day or two later I sent in my wife like in my arm is still sore. And she looked and she goes, it is so high up on your shoulder. And then we've started thinking about how long the needle was. And I was like, did she just put it like right into the, into the joint? Maybe? I don't know. Anyway.

Mallory Hart 45:16
Um, at least you don't have to go back to her for a second one.

Scott Benner 45:19
I would do it. I honestly think if I'm being completely honest, I could have given that injection to myself and other better,

Mallory Hart 45:26
right, I'm sure you could have. Sometimes I want to ask, What can I do that

Scott Benner 45:30
I could get? I felt like saying like, let me let me get this. She just I don't know. She was lovely. She was, you know, nice and kind. And everything

Mallory Hart 45:40
just sounds like it. It sounds like it sounds like it was a lovely experience. The whole thing

Scott Benner 45:43
was actually the entire experience was a disaster. But she seemed like a lovely person is what I'm saying. And then she afterwards she goes, this is only the second one I've done. That I wanted to go back to the guy. It's like the entrance has sent me over there and be like, Yo, man, come on.

Mallory Hart 46:02
back, go back and get another

Scott Benner 46:03
send me to the new lady who didn't understand how to like push, like her finger on the iPad, like, anyway, but I am vaccinated now I'm very happy about it. And yeah, I did not have any healthy like I didn't feel you know, sometimes people say feel sweaty, or you can get like a light fevers, nothing like

Mallory Hart 46:23
that. I had a horrible night after the second one. But I made it Jeff Maderna or Pfizer. I had Maderna and the second one I had like a fever of like 102 all night, then, you know, couldn't sleep at all because I felt horrible.

Scott Benner 46:35
Do you need more insight?

Mallory Hart 46:37
I didn't really?

Scott Benner 46:39
Do you normally when you get sick or do you not get sick very often.

Mallory Hart 46:44
I feel like I get I get my fair amount of colds and stuff. And sometimes I do. You know, after the first shot, I felt like I needed a little bit more insulin, but it could have been anything that made me need that more insulin. So I didn't notice it a lot after the second one. Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:59
I don't even remember being sick because of COVID and wearing a mask outside and everything. I haven't felt like heavy felt second over a year. It's been great. You don't I mean, like I might keep up this life as part of me. It's like I'm like, maybe I will like, at least during flu season. You know what I mean? Like, I'll be like, Hey, girl, she stopped me cover my face.

Mallory Hart 47:18
I hope we can get to a point where if you had a cold or flu, but you were gonna go out? Maybe you would wear a mask? Oh, I see. I don't. Yeah, I don't think we're going to but it's some I thought you're hoping

Scott Benner 47:29
for other people to learn? Not yes, no, I'm gonna stick with me learning. I'm not gonna lead on anybody else for this. This is this is?

Mallory Hart 47:37
Yeah, I think we're I think we've learned our lesson. Yeah, we know the people to take care of other people. It's not.

Scott Benner 47:43
Other otherwise I have to say that like for things like your job, and just stuff that I've witnessed with my kids. You know, it's been obvious. I'm saying something completely obvious. But this is going on longer than people seem to have the capacity for. At this point. I don't think it's anybody's fault. Like, it's not like you should try harder. I just mean, like, my kids need to have a schedule and leave the house and need to get dressed to go somewhere. I think that might be the biggest loss of all this is is a schedule.

Mallory Hart 48:19
Without that I don't need a schedule. You don't have it. Yeah, you're an

Scott Benner 48:23
adult to true. I mean, ish. As we're talking. I'm realizing you're more like a being emotionally where you're right around 19. Toy. Fair, right. I'm at 16 like that. Yeah. So yeah. But like my daughter needs to, like, get up in the morning and have to get dressed. Like, like, she shouldn't be able to what she said to me like an hour ago, and she came into the kitchen to like, drop something off. And she's like, I'm gonna work out and I'll school's over. I was like, okay, and I hear my wife go, are you wearing a bra? And she goes, I don't wear a bra for school anymore. I feel like she needs to be in a situation where school equals undergarments. Yeah, that might be valuable. Yeah,

Mallory Hart 49:03
yeah, I get that. I get that. But it's been a good year. I mean, not a good year, but it's been a good year of getting to like stay home and not, you know, have to get dressed every day. And

Scott Benner 49:13
I'm sure that I'm going to defend you and agree with you that, that I did enjoy the break. Like I've been alive a lot longer than you. But I did enjoy the the time of not rushing around. Like we do, like in the course of a lifetime. Like I didn't Yeah, you know what I mean? You lose track of the fact that you'd never stop.

Mallory Hart 49:38
Yeah, yeah, I'm getting back to traveling for shows to sell my art and it's, you know, what I'm signing up for I do have, you know, 10 to 15 of those a year and I didn't do any for you know, over a year. And I'm starting to do those again. So that's starting Yeah. A lot of planning and stuff goes into that.

Scott Benner 49:57
I will say that you know, with a bit of a A vacation time that my wife gets, we usually use it throughout the year, she'll take like a day off here a couple days before Christmas, like you're always using it to prep for something. And I think it's possible that moving forward, we will start taking it in bigger blocks, like looking at that time as respite and not just like, Oh, here's a day where I don't have to work so I can accomplish something else. Mm hmm. I mean, at least I feel that way. And I want to, I would like to see more of the country. I've suddenly that seems important to me to get to the places that I wanted to see that I haven't seen yet.

Mallory Hart 50:32
Yeah, that's one thing I like about taking my art around the country and selling it as I get to go to all these new places that never been. Yeah. And I drive everywhere, too. So

Scott Benner 50:41
that's what we're gonna do, too. We decided we're going to, to do it that way. My son was just in Colorado. Oh, cool. He was in Wyoming. And then it's not as fun. No, not that. I think they wouldn't think they were snowboarding. And then they drove home but they very purposely drove home. They went to Moab Moab. Is that how you say that desert? Yes. No. Yeah. And then they went to the sand. Dune Sand Dunes National Park. That's right.

Mallory Hart 51:10
Yep. That's it's pretty self. But yeah, yeah, I went there when I was a kid. I have some memories of it.

Scott Benner 51:17
What were your memories of it?

Mallory Hart 51:18
I remember it rained. It was like a huge store. But it rained a lot. And we had to like, walk my parents like, Oh, we're gonna go walk the sand dunes. And it's like, raining and we had to walk through this like, shallow. Like there was like six inches of water we had to walk through if we take our shoes off, and then like, our legs got all wet. But then it was like, sand just blowing on our legs. And it was so painful. And I'm like, why are we doing this? This is miserable. But now you're older. Do you know why you did it? Yeah. And then there were fire ants where we were camping. I'd like to go back someday. But that was not

Scott Benner 51:51
your poor parents got you there and they're like, look, we spent all the money we have getting you here. This day. We're gonna be here.

Mallory Hart 51:57
My mom worked for the National Park Service. So we'd get to go to the parks with her. Sometimes mom's

Scott Benner 52:02
a hippie as well. I didn't know this. Hold on a second. I'm talking over you but I don't feel completely bad about it. Your mom's a hippie to what? Your mom you're a hippie. You know that Mallory, right? No, no, Mallory. You do art for a living. You paint sets in plays. You travel and share your stuff with people and your mom worked for the National Park Service. Yeah, and your dad made tie dye. No. was just one kid. They had one kid because they probably were like, Alright, that's enough. We have stuff we want to do, too. Or you were just a pain in the ass. They're like, let's not do that again. Am I wrong? You

Mallory Hart 52:44
know? I don't think I'm a hippie. I think you're wrong about that. Okay. I think I'm a modern, artistic goth kid that grew up I think is how I would put it.

Scott Benner 52:58
Okay. But yeah, interestingly enough, I see that the same.

Mallory Hart 53:01
You can't, you can't see me. But you could go to my website and go to my about page and see a picture of me, but I have like blue and purple hair.

Scott Benner 53:08
Oh, well, don't you think that's modern? Alright, I think so. Hold on first. I'll do that.

Mallory Hart 53:14
I only wear black. I don't think that's a very hippie thing.

Scott Benner 53:20
I don't know. I think you're being like you're being you're thinking about the 60s and I'm just thinking about it as a vibe.

Mallory Hart 53:26
Maybe? Maybe.

Scott Benner 53:27
What do you mean, maybe? I know what I'm thinking. I might be wrong, but I know what silly thoughts are Wait a minute, I'm on 20 Work originals for sale, patches, pins, prints apparently.

Mallory Hart 53:39
onto the side, you can see the about there's a picture of me down. I say all this. I'm gonna redo my website pretty soon. So it's gonna be all different by the time this episode comes out,

Scott Benner 53:49
I do not see about just so you know. I can go up here and type about after the URL and find it that way. Oh, hi. Oh, there you are. Hello.

Mallory Hart 54:02
Nice. Me.

Scott Benner 54:03
It's nice to see you. Yeah, you're just a modern hippie. It's all okay. Okay, if that's what you want to say why it's not Oh, I like to wait. I don't want to say anything. I have to say something or the podcast that was being a podcast. Cue imagine if I was just like, slow and I didn't really talk much. You'd be like, wish this guy would talk more. But no, no. Nevertheless, I think it's, um, thank you. It's really interesting. How, like, you've described a number of different parts of your life and that and the diabetes and how they all sort of you can see how they intersect with each other. But they don't they don't seem to overwhelm each other, which is nice. You're not You're not overwhelmed by your diabetes.

Mallory Hart 54:49
Yeah. You know, and I, early on when I got diabetes, my parents didn't, they never wouldn't hold me back from anything. You know, I said I got diagnosed in February of seventh grade, the summer After eighth grade, I didn't exchange trip for a month in Japan. And I look back on that, like how in the world my parents thought that was a good idea. But it went fine. Yeah, well, I guess, you know, they sent me with a bunch of syringes and some insulin and, you know, eating foods I knew nothing about and

Scott Benner 55:18
you got through it. You got through it. What's your biggest concern through those years was being too low, right? You didn't want to be low?

Mallory Hart 55:27
Yeah. I didn't want to feel bad. I didn't want to be low. What was obviously if I correct if I tested I saw my blood sugar was high, I assumed I would have done something about it.

Scott Benner 55:43
So it's so interesting to talk to people who've had diabetes for like, decades, because especially those of you who've, like, I guess, gone to a different management's thought, like you can even imagine you see, like the way you handle yourself now in these couple of years. It's not in any way reminiscent of how you live prior, right?

Mallory Hart 56:04
Yeah, yeah, I do. Do better now.

Scott Benner 56:09
Better. That's how you think of it is better? not different.

Mallory Hart 56:12
I, it's weird to think back on how I didn't care. Like I think there were definitely days in a row, I would go without testing my blood sugar, but I was fine. I don't know how well you felt like am I miss remembering that? Like, did I actually test my blood sugar like six times a day? And the answer is definitely not like I was doing one to two times a day, maybe three at most, right. But by fine, you know, I would I would estimate the carbs and take the insulin and it would be worked out.

Scott Benner 56:43
See that's I'm this has got nothing to do with you. Specifically Mallory. Like I talked to so many people who are in your situation, meaning how long they've had diabetes? Like I that that answer that you just gave like that remembrance is consistent through adults? Like I did find? Yeah, it was fine. Then I'll say what was your one thing? They'll be like, I don't know, nine or 10. But I but they don't see that as competing?

Mallory Hart 57:09
Yeah. Now when I look back, I'm like, Oh, bad. That was very bad. Like, why I'm so mad at myself. How did I do that? But like, there's nothing I can do about it now?

Scott Benner 57:17
No. Oh, no, you shouldn't you shouldn't worry. We shouldn't worry for a second about it. It's just I find the maybe it's the wording. But everybody picks the same words. I did bad. I was fine. I felt okay. Like, it's it's very interesting that everyone uses the same kind of phrasings. And yet they know even when they're saying it, like you're saying it now from our perspective and 2021. Like, you know, that, like that wasn't what you would have hoped for had you known. And yet you do describe it as fine. And so to so many other people, I guess what that shows is the that that was the level of understanding at that point, you were doing what you were told to do, right?

Mallory Hart 58:01
Yeah. And I think they would try to, they realized, like, you know, they'd given their meter and they take, well, we need more data, you need to test more. Okay, then I wouldn't, they would tell me again, in three months, like, look, there's nothing I could do with this amount of data, maybe increase your Basal rates, but like, test more, I look at this next time,

Scott Benner 58:18
and you didn't test because you didn't want to see the number because you didn't want to be bothered. Just

Mallory Hart 58:22
yeah, I think I didn't want to be bothered. I didn't know really any other type ones as well. You know, there'd be like a couple at the school. You know, they'd like at the beginning of the year, they called to meet the nurse's office together, but I didn't know them.

Scott Benner 58:36
Does it feel like it was maybe if I,

Mallory Hart 58:39
maybe if I was closer with them, it would have been different. I never I never wanted to go to diabetes camp either. Like that was like my mom couldn't have paid me to do that. I had no interest.

Scott Benner 58:49
You wouldn't have seen the value in that community at that age. But you see it now.

Mallory Hart 58:54
Yes. Yeah. Has actually give my mom a hard time. Like, why didn't you make me go? And she's like, like, Haha, you would not have gotten it?

Scott Benner 59:01
Yeah, you would have just argued about it. Yeah. Um, I had a question and then I talked over top unit made me feel bad. My last my question. I find it It's in here somewhere. Might not be, um, school. Goddamnit Oh, I'm upset. I was excited to ask a question. All I remember is that I wanted to ask the question, not what it was. And I don't want to walk back through it to find it. But I do. Damn it. You're in school. Friends, friends. That new dash. I lost it. This is this is my age catching up with me right here. I've lost. Oh, it threw me for it. I'm like spinning out of control. Mowery. You say something? I

Mallory Hart 59:51
wish I could help you. I wish I could help you. I don't know what you were going for. No,

Scott Benner 59:54
I know. There'd be no way for you to know. Because I talked about naughty by nature. The biggest See, you can't imagine anything that I might say. You're right.

Mallory Hart 1:00:05
I didn't say anything.

Scott Benner 1:00:08
I love you. I know it's early. We've only known each other for 55 minutes, but I really enjoy your talking to you. Thanks. Thanks. You're welcome. Thanks. I feel like you're tolerating me.

Mallory Hart 1:00:18
No, no, I like you this reason I listened to most of your podcast episodes. Not all of them, but I listened to most of them.

Scott Benner 1:00:24
Yeah. What kind? Are you not interested in?

Mallory Hart 1:00:27
Um, honestly, it just comes down to my life. If I'm not listening to a podcast that week, and then I've built up you know, the last 10. I haven't listened to I'll just pick and choose the ones. And that makes sense. move on from there,

Scott Benner 1:00:39
does it not? Is it is it unhelpful, that I don't tell you what they're about?

Mallory Hart 1:00:44
No, no. So I guess sometimes I'll find myself like, I'll do the like, the pro tips or something. Because they're shorter. It's less, you know, less commitment. I yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:54
I am fascinated by I've come to understand that there's a whole aspect of how people listen that I have no control over. But in the beginning, it's, it's funny. In the beginning, it feels like you could do the exact thing that would get people to listen to me. And I was just like, that's not how this works. And, you know, I've figured that out years ago, but like, there's a little kid inside of me who's like, you don't listen to every one of them I work really hard on. But it would, I wonder if you had a showing if you put your art up in a space, and I very carefully looked at a few of them, and then whipped past five or six feet of things hanging on the wall and then slowed down again, if you wouldn't be like, Yo, what's wrong with those?

Mallory Hart 1:01:39
I think it's what what you like and what catches your eye?

Scott Benner 1:01:42
Yeah. No, I see.

Mallory Hart 1:01:45
I never went back and listen from the beginning, which it seems like a lot of people do. You know, when I found the podcast, and I listened to one, I did listen back to a few of them, but that I just kind of started listening to the recent ones.

Scott Benner 1:01:55
Yeah, I think there's a couple of different ways that people listen, they're the ones

Mallory Hart 1:01:59
but at the same time, I also felt like I had a pretty good handle on my diabetes. I didn't need to go back and listen to the basics in a way.

Scott Benner 1:02:06
No, I hear that. And yeah, there. I mean, there's obviously there's a lot of management stuff that if you know it, you know it. You don't need to hear it again. Doesn't mean I can't download it. Mallory understand what I'm saying? Just down, okay. I'm saying help out the cause a little bit. You know, I mean,

Mallory Hart 1:02:24
all my devices down there my husband's phone. I gotcha.

Scott Benner 1:02:27
Like, if I came to your show, I'd walk around and I would gladly sell I love this. I think I'm gonna buy this. But while other people were watching, I'd be out there shilling for you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, seriously? Kidding. I would help out. No, I appreciate that. I think there's some people who listen, some people are completionist. Like, they'll start at the beginning. And they'll go to the end no matter what they're compelled to do it in a way that, like, I don't understand. I think some people just want the management stuff. I think some people want the management stuff so badly because they need it, because they're in trouble. But they want to listen as well. Those people are I love those people the most, I guess, because they go back to the beginning and listen, but then jump through the management stuff at the same time. It's almost like they're listening to two different podcasts within the same feed. But anyway, I appreciate everybody that listens, honestly.

Mallory Hart 1:03:17
Yeah. And I've recommended it to people, you know, if I need it, if I need a type one in the wild, I recommend it.

Scott Benner 1:03:23
Do you have any type one friends now?

Mallory Hart 1:03:27
No. Still I have a professor from college who I talked to and he's type one. I think if you went through my Facebook friends, that'd be the only one

Scott Benner 1:03:38
okay? You meet them or you're not I just don't know

Mallory Hart 1:03:42
them. Like they don't they don't make their way into my life.

Scott Benner 1:03:46
You're not avoiding people type one diabetes. No,

Mallory Hart 1:03:48
no, you know what I'm selling it show sometimes someone will come by and they'll have an insulin pump on their pocket or a pot on their arm. But I'll say something. And sometimes they're really open to it. And sometimes they like wish I hadn't brought that up. But

Scott Benner 1:04:00
it's hard to tell, isn't it? I saw a woman Yeah, you know, but I think

Mallory Hart 1:04:03
that when I was younger, if I saw somebody who looked like me, I think I would have wanted that.

Scott Benner 1:04:13
Yeah, my I can see that. I can see that perspective. I wonder if the people

Mallory Hart 1:04:18
who don't see here once a year, so I'll do a post on my Instagram of something I'll paint something diabetes seem to do a big post about it. But that's about as much as I try to cross over those things.

Scott Benner 1:04:31
Are you Mallory, heart art on Instagram? I am that smart branding. keep everything the same.

Mallory Hart 1:04:39
Some of their Malory heart to call the straight up Mallory heart tags, handles so I had to had to take the Mallory heart art one

Scott Benner 1:04:46
she ever go after.

Mallory Hart 1:04:49
The person who has the Gmail account occasionally forwards me things like I think this might have been meant for you. Oh, isn't that nice? Well, it's usually like a very generic arts. Bam, email that goes around. Oh, buy something for my wife in the category of $50 to $5,000. Please send me available works.

Scott Benner 1:05:09
I like it when people contact me and they're like we I might get my client would be perfect for your podcast and then I look and I think, no they wouldn't and you don't think they would? Stop? Yeah, well your Instagram is great. Thank you at Mallory heart art. should check that out me. Listen, very love. It's really something. Thank you, of course. Is it? Is it nice to hear? Or is it uncomfortable to hear?

Mallory Hart 1:05:36
I like it. I like some positive feedback.

Scott Benner 1:05:39
It's nice to hear I got better at it over the years.

Mallory Hart 1:05:42
I think that's one of the reasons I like to sell my art shows because you get people coming up to you telling you how nice everything looks. And you don't get that when you're working at home in your studio.

Scott Benner 1:05:50
Nobody. Your cat doesn't let you know that really does look like me. Thank you. Do you paint your own? Look at you have you have you did a really a nice piece of benders head. That's why nice.

Mallory Hart 1:06:07
I did that for my husband. Drama fan. Yeah, you should do

Scott Benner 1:06:10
if you did something for Coraline, my wife would force me to get it for her. Right away.

Mallory Hart 1:06:16
I talked to I try not to do too much fan art copies. I do. I do some

Scott Benner 1:06:22
for somebody personal like

Mallory Hart 1:06:24
a friend. Yeah. Like most of what I paint, I paint when I want I sell prints of it, they will realize what sells well and try to cater to that as well. I

Scott Benner 1:06:35
guess when you're doing it for for a living, you do end up having to go where people's interests are right. Do you ever find yourself having an idea and going I can't do that it won't. It won't sell?

Mallory Hart 1:06:49
Yeah, sometimes I'll do it anyways. Or I'll do something small. Sometimes I work small. And then if people like it, I'll do something bigger. It's I can do prints of and sell it and mark it off it but

Scott Benner 1:06:58
Gotcha. That's amazing. That's very cool. The internet like this wouldn't be possible without the internet, right?

Mallory Hart 1:07:04
Yeah. Yeah. The people say that the new Instagram and the internet's like the new gallery. You know, well, gallery shows are still a thing. You can you can show anything you want now online.

Scott Benner 1:07:15
Yeah, it's so easy to just admit when you're talentless, and you're a talented person. If you weren't talented, it wouldn't be that easy. You have like a massive following on Instagram

Mallory Hart 1:07:24
to get in there. Yeah, I built up most of it over the pandemic, the pandemic was really good for getting people on Instagram and just looking at their phones.

Scott Benner 1:07:35
Yeah, yeah, right. I hadn't thought about that. The podcast. Just it constantly grows. Yes, me. So I didn't see anything different during pandemic than I did it other places. It's just this kind of constant growth, which is really kind of its people sharing the show. So it's really Yeah, everybody. Yeah, that's really something or you're really cool. I appreciate you doing this. What made you want to come on the podcast?

Mallory Hart 1:07:59
I think I've listened to for so long. And I feel like I can do that. I want to do that. And then finally, you know, I think he posted a couple times. So you were like, I'm opening up for, you know, interviews, and I said, Okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm glad you did. And I agreed to that, like six months ago, and I still came.

Scott Benner 1:08:15
It didn't feel like a long time.

Mallory Hart 1:08:18
It felt like a lot. Like back then, like, May May. What am I gonna be doing in May? But

Scott Benner 1:08:23
wait till it comes out in November. I know. You'll be like, took me a year to get a stupid podcast. I know if you feel like at the beginning when you said like when you asked what happens the episodes that suck. Like, do you? Do you feel good about that? So

Mallory Hart 1:08:40
is this gonna be your first one that you're gonna like, file away in the trash folder?

Scott Benner 1:08:43
So you have no idea? You can't tell? Right? How this one.

Mallory Hart 1:08:48
I can't. I'm also not gonna listen to my own episode. That's that's the other thing. We better download it anyway. Oh, download it.

Scott Benner 1:08:54
I think your mom will hear it.

Mallory Hart 1:08:57
No, she doesn't listen to the podcast.

Scott Benner 1:08:59
But if she have you been on other podcasts, this is like not a big deal for

Mallory Hart 1:09:04
I haven't. I haven't. I've wanted to do some for my art and I just haven't.

Scott Benner 1:09:08
How would an Art Podcast go?

Mallory Hart 1:09:11
There's a lot of them. Whether your art. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:14
Okay. Do you like wind chimes behind you or something?

Mallory Hart 1:09:20
No, I have a space heater going might be that.

Scott Benner 1:09:24
Oh, yeah. It was like it sounds like I'm like wooden chimes touching each other client.

Mallory Hart 1:09:30
Know when wind chimes outside, but I'm in the basement. So I hope it's not that

Scott Benner 1:09:35
you work in the basement or closed.

Mallory Hart 1:09:36
Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:38
I wish I had I work upstairs. I wish I had more of us like a space that was a little more private, I guess.

Mallory Hart 1:09:48
Yeah, I got it. I got a good space. I'm very happy with it.

Scott Benner 1:09:51
Love it. What is your you said your husband works in the same industry. Right. But is he an artist? Yeah.

Mallory Hart 1:09:55
Now he's a carpenter and a rigger. So he builds stuff.

Scott Benner 1:10:00
That's so cool that you guys met in high school, but you actually like as adults got to do the thing you wanted to do.

Mallory Hart 1:10:07
Yeah. Yeah, we both we did it in high school. And then out of high school, I was teaching theater to the high school, I was basically like a coach in the theater, I would teach the kids how to build the things and help them design their sets and all that. And then I kind of stopped doing that, just because it was really hard to compete with that and like, working in a real theater in the real world. But he went to school for it. But he got a full time job before he graduated. So he stopped school. It's impressive, full time job in it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:38
Seriously, that's really impressive. I just got a job a couple years ago, for the first time that was really anything reasonable. That wasn't just like me, like trying to make money. You know what I mean? Like, just, uh, you don't I mean, we just do a job because you have to do it. Like, that was? Yeah, most of my life.

Mallory Hart 1:10:54
Yeah. I mean, I generally like what I do, there are times when it's like, this day, we're gonna end You know, when you're making sets, and you're on a really monotonous project, and you're just spending two weeks carving bricks. That doesn't sound like the first day,

Scott Benner 1:11:12
we're making bricks. Hey, guys, remember, we started making these bricks?

Mallory Hart 1:11:16
Yeah, two weeks ago?

Scott Benner 1:11:18
Is is the actual creating the painting? Is it always, like heart driven? Or do you ever have to sit down and do it for money? And is it harder that way?

Mallory Hart 1:11:30
Yeah, I do. You probably saw I do like pet portraits and stuff like that. I think some sometimes as like, Okay, I got three dogs, I got a knock all these out this week? Well, this one's the cutest we'll start with this one. But some of those, some of those are just like, I just gotta get this done. But for the most part, but your

Scott Benner 1:11:49
effort doesn't change. It's just kind of how it feels in your head. Yeah,

Mallory Hart 1:11:53
yeah. You know, and then there's also like, you know, there's website work and there's, you know, marketing work. And they always say, for art that like 50% of the time, you're going to be creating the work and the other 50% of the time, you're going to be marketing the work and doing other things.

Scott Benner 1:12:06
I have to I put more effort into the parts of this podcast that nobody sees, then I'm sure than the owner of the audio that you hear. It's it, I was approached by somebody, fairly recently. And they're like, I'm gonna start a podcast. And I was like, you can if you want, but better be ready to start. Yeah, you better be ready to put a lot of effort into it. I think that's why so many of them start and stop so quickly. Just because it's just it's so much more than you see on the surface. I think YouTube channels end up being the same for people like I'm in a YouTube channel too. And then that's it. You know,

Mallory Hart 1:12:44
I've put some of my stuff on YouTube, just so it can be seen through my Patreon. And it's a pain. A lot of work. It's so hard. It's so much easier to make a tic tock video or Instagram TV video than it is to make a YouTube video.

Scott Benner 1:12:57
Yeah. And okay. It's a it's a massive amount of effort. Yeah. So anyway, I think it's amazing. You make a living at it that you're going like this long, and it's really fantastic.

Mallory Hart 1:13:07
Yeah, yeah. I like to think I'm going in the right direction.

Scott Benner 1:13:12
But seems like you're to me. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wished we would have?

Mallory Hart 1:13:19
I will say when I'm driving to my shows, what I discovered is that my blood sugar always goes up during them. And my new secret is I pull over on the side of the highway in the middle of nowhere, and I do 50 squats and then I get back in my car and keep driving. The most efficient tool I've figured out

Scott Benner 1:13:35
if you see a woman doing squats on the side of the road in Colorado,

Mallory Hart 1:13:41
anywhere, anywhere, I drove all over the country.

Scott Benner 1:13:43
Mallory's blood sugar somewhere over probably 140. Jen, she doesn't want to Bolus but she realized it's because you've been waiting in the car for

Mallory Hart 1:13:52
Bolus and the insulin just sits there and my blood sugar just keeps going up and I have to have to move somehow to make the insulin work. It'll just sit there and not do anything. And that's what I've figured

Scott Benner 1:14:02
out. So for sedentary because you're sedentary in the car for so long. Yeah.

Mallory Hart 1:14:06
Interest. There's no amount of car moving that I can do with in the car. You don't driving or as a passenger.

Scott Benner 1:14:13
You can't just like out of the car and like pedal your left leg.

Mallory Hart 1:14:16
I've tried. I've tried. I've tried all these ridiculous things and

Scott Benner 1:14:20
have you really? Yeah, like arm calisthenics, stuff like that. Not enough to get the insulin moving? No, get out some nice deep knee bends.

Mallory Hart 1:14:29
Yep, it works. It works. That's brilliant.

Scott Benner 1:14:33
Have you ever? Like if you ever watched somebody see you and thought, I wonder what that person's thinking right? Yeah.

Mallory Hart 1:14:40
Probably. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Do you know, good last year before the pandemic, um, I had I had the T slim pump and I had the Omnipod as well, but neither one of them I had the algorithm on okay, you know, so I'd be if I'm, if I'm driving, I tend to do my husband and sometimes he could figure it out. But so I was doing it in the other hand while I'm driving. But I did I switched over during the pandemic to the control IQ. And it helps a lot, but it's still my body just sometimes needs to move to make the insulin. Remember to work

Scott Benner 1:15:17
100% Yeah, yeah, Arden decided to start exercising again more frequently. About two weeks ago and three days into her. I'm going to be exercising more frequently lifestyle, I had to change her Basal rates and make them weaker. And I had to turn her insulin sensitivity make her insulin sensitivity weaker as well, just because she's exercising for 45 minutes a day. Yeah, yeah. I Yeah, that's what that's a great tip. See, look at you. Yeah,

Mallory Hart 1:15:47
no choice. Do you got to go do roadside squats? We'll make it normal. It won't be weird.

Scott Benner 1:15:52
Wow. And I think right at the end, you pulled out a title for this episode. Definitely think it's gonna be called roadside squats. I liked dead squiggles better. I know. Well, whatever you want. You want it to be roadside squats and dents, whatever you want. Whatever. It's up to you. Thank you so much. I like it when people are just like this. Just Hey, go with go with your Go with your gut feeling. I'm gonna do that. But I'll edit it. And when I hear back, I'll be like, alright, I'll know for sure. Okay. Well, first of all, let me thank Mallory for coming on the show. I thought she was absolutely terrific. Again, Mallory Hart art on Instagram. And thank you again, to Dexcom makers to the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor for sponsoring the show. I really appreciate it dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Seriously, check it out. It's absolutely terrific. Another thing is terrific is the Omni pod. You'll find out more at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Don't forget about the Omni pod promise and that you might be eligible for a free 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash on the pod.com forward slash juice box links in the show notes. Links at Juicebox Podcast COMM When you support the sponsors, you're supporting the show. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast

#581 Bob's Your Uncle

Sasha is Australian, in her mid 20s and has been living with type one diabetes since she was young.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello Friends Hello friends Hello friends Hello friends hello friends. Hello darkness my old friend

Hello friends and welcome to episode 581 of the Juicebox Podcast. On today's show, I'll be speaking with Sasha, who is Australian in her mid 20s and has been living with type one diabetes since she was a young person. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. I want to remind you to check out the private Facebook group it is completely free always will be Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes over 17,000 members. The diabetes pro tip and defining diabetes episodes are fan favorites. If you're looking for management ideas about type one diabetes, check out diabetes pro tip.com. Have you considered filling out the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox? Well, if you have type one diabetes, or you're the caregiver of someone with type one, and you're a US citizen, you can it'll just take a few minutes. And with that very little bit of effort you will have helped someone with type one diabetes

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You can find out more at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox.

Sasha 1:57
Okay, so my name is Sasha, I'm 25 years old. I live in Melbourne, Australia, and I have type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 2:07
I'm so happy for how many people in Australia listened to the podcast. So it's exciting to me. How did you find Yeah,

Sasha 2:16
I heard quite a few episodes recently with Australians on there. And that was surprised as well.

Scott Benner 2:22
Yeah, I am. I mean, the first time I was just like, oh, this is neat. Didn't mean like it was like, I don't know, finding an ice cream flavor I'd never seen before. But then, you know, the second and the third time that people actually wanted to be on and watching the downloads in the country. It's a I think it's one of the top three countries for the podcast. So it's always very consistent. You guys are always very nice to me. So thank you.

Sasha 2:47
For Thank you. No, please,

Scott Benner 2:49
don't be silly. I was just gonna forget the first time that someone contacted me and said they needed help or something. And we're wondering if we could talk and I said, Yeah, sure. Like, you know, here's my number. And she's like, I can't call it's too expensive. And I was like, where are you? And she said, Australia, and we ended up doing it through FaceTime audio, I think. Which was surprisingly good. Like, is that how you? Do you guys do that? A lot

Sasha 3:18
of you? No, no, not really. I mean, I think over he is mostly just WhatsApp, WhatsApp. Gotcha. Yeah, I think that's the common on.

Scott Benner 3:29
Okay. And so is it just incredibly expensive to make a phone call?

Sasha 3:35
I mean, if you if you're calling from overseas, or making a phone call to overseas then yes, but not not within the country?

Scott Benner 3:43
No. Oh, yeah. I didn't think you lived on Mars like I was. So tell me about when you were diagnosed? How old are you?

Sasha 3:53
I was nine, nine.

Scott Benner 3:56
She saved 25. Now? Yes. Be prepared to be really impressed. Was that 16 years ago? How long 1718 2020 230 My God. I am on top of things this morning. So a very long time ago. And while you were living in Australia?

Sasha 4:14
No, actually, I was living in France.

Scott Benner 4:17
How does that happen? Tell me more about that.

Sasha 4:20
So my dad is Australian and my mom is fresh. I was born in Australia, but I grew up in France. So from the age of three to 18, I was living in France, so I was actually diagnosed in Switzerland. Were your

Scott Benner 4:36
parents together? Yes. Okay. That makes it more interesting that you're back in Australia. Like I want to ask more questions, but I also feel like it's going to come out during the story. I don't know where to go with this. Alright, let's just let's start there, where we're in France that you live

Sasha 4:54
right next to the Swiss border. So just on the other side of Geneva.

Scott Benner 4:59
Okay. Hey. And so your, your parents, where did they get together?

Sasha 5:06
They met in France in my dad was working over there when he was younger

Scott Benner 5:11
was working. Okay. Periscope, how were they young when they got married?

Sasha 5:17
Um, I think they're in the early 30s.

Scott Benner 5:21
That's Do you think that's yeah.

Sasha 5:26
I mean, yes and no. It's like, I feel like if you ask an 18 year old is 30 Young, they'll be like now that's old. But I'm 25 and I'm starting to cross over there. I feel like it's not that old.

Scott Benner 5:42
guy wasn't asking you to defend your own fear about getting old. I was trying to figure out this 30 was old to you. Are you nervous?

Sasha 5:51
Uh, I was a little bit at first, but yeah,

Scott Benner 5:54
you're good. Okay. Excellent. Yes. Great. Yeah. I don't want you to be nervous. So, alright, so you're a young kid. You're growing up the entire time, I guess in Geneva. And or right by Geneva. You said? Yeah. Okay. Do you speak French? Yes, I do. Like rock solid. If you went over there, people wouldn't be like, that's an Australian girl pretending to be French

Sasha 6:15
like, yeah. Wow. Yeah. They wouldn't be able to tell. That's so

Scott Benner 6:20
cool. So I'm gonna depress you just very quickly. Okay, turn the lights off. It's time to go to bed.

Sasha 6:28
You want me to say that in French? Yeah. Do it. Italian Yeah. That is pushy.

Scott Benner 6:35
I don't think he had time to Google that. So that sounds pretty legitimate. Okay. So, okay, so you grow up? Were you strictly French speaking or does your dad speak French?

Sasha 6:46
He does. But most of the time I speak French with my mom in English with my dad.

Scott Benner 6:50
That's so cool. I don't think you imagine that as being otter, like in an interesting way. But it is. I mean, to me at least I think that's pretty amazing. Alright, so were you diagnosed in French? Yes, I was. Excellent. Did that have any impact on it? Because I asked the person recently if they were diagnosed in Spanish, and she felt like it had an impact. Meaning that once she reached English speech, speaking, doctors, they were more specific with her. I don't know why she thought that. But I'm asking you because she said that.

Sasha 7:26
I'm not in that sense. But I think that when I want to move to Australia, when I was 18, I then I think just the transition was strange. With everything, not just diabetes, just learning how to, you know, just learning the slang in another language. Like I knew the language, but I didn't know how to talk about diabetes in English.

Scott Benner 7:51
Oh, that's interesting. So is that would that mostly become an issue between you and a physician? Are you want to parent Where did that?

Sasha 8:03
Probably mostly physician physicians. Okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner 8:07
Did you? Did you find the physicians helpful? And are they more helpful in one country than the other? I think that'd be about the same. The same. Yeah. Was it helpful?

Sasha 8:22
Not particularly North.

Scott Benner 8:26
Australia's where King Kong lives, right? Uh, what? What do you mean, the giant gorilla that came to New York in the 40s and took that woman up to the top of the Empire spa?

Sasha 8:43
He was Australia.

Scott Benner 8:44
I don't know why it's not. But I imagine in my mind that it is so bad. Yeah. Because I mean, you have the giant spiders already. So I swear to you that I think it might be genetic. Because if you asked me, Do you want to go to Australia? I'd be like, Yes, that sounds amazing. What about the giant spiders? Am I gonna be okay, would be my next question. I don't think I've ever said that out loud in front of anybody. And my son who's 21 And you know, travels way more than I did when he was younger. When I was younger. Somebody asked him about Australia the other day and he said, What about this fight? Are they just everywhere? The way I imagined just are they on the roof of your like house and crawling through your living room right now and everything?

Sasha 9:27
Probably, but I don't think that's because there's more spiders in Australia. I think that's just because insulation here is terrible. And this, you know, cracks underneath underneath the doors. So the spine has come in.

Scott Benner 9:39
No kidding. It's a construction issue you believe. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Are you calling out Australians right now and their construction practices? Oh, yeah. No kidding. That's interesting. I know you're being a little funny, but I think you mean it. So.

Sasha 9:55
Oh, yeah, I definitely mean that.

Scott Benner 9:59
Are your doors square Are they like swing? Well, or do they get stuck? Or is it that bad?

Sasha 10:05
I don't I don't know what the what the deal is. But it's just it's just not good.

Scott Benner 10:12
That's hilarious. All right. So you said in your note that you left the hospital in France with a pump? Yes, I did. So you know, you've never done injections. Sorry, have you ever done MDI injections?

Sasha 10:29
I have. But I saw I, I went on a pump immediately. And then, probably about seven or eight years later, I got sick of the pump. And then I started MDI, but I hadn't actually, I had actually never done an injection in the hospital. Or maybe I had, but like they're in a teddy bear or an orange or something.

Scott Benner 10:50
So it's an interesting, so you use the pump exclusively for I mean, a long time into your into your mid late teens. Right? And then you just decide I'm not wearing a pump anymore. Was it? Like a harrowing experience to give yourself an injection the first time?

Sasha 11:09
Yeah, kind of, yeah, I've kind of felt like a warrior. I remember, I mean that they were probably a few times while I was on a pump, where I had to give myself an injection, you know, from failed sites or whatnot. But I had always relied on my parents to do that, because I was always too scared. Yeah, but I decided to come off it because I, you know, being a teenager, I just didn't like having to, you know, having the pump connected to me all the time and having it visible by other people. And I think I was also never really taught how to use it properly. So I'm sorry. Now, I didn't understand, you know, Temp Basal rules and things like that. Gotcha. So you're encouraged to use those.

Scott Benner 12:02
So the pump for you was basically just a way to not have to give injections all day long. And, yeah, pretty much. What kind of pump? Was it back then?

Sasha 12:13
A, one of the early maytronics.

Scott Benner 12:16
Gotcha. And are you MDI right now as I'm talking to you?

Sasha 12:21
No, I have a Medtronic pump. That is actually weirdly looking. It's very similar to the one I have left the hospital with that diagnosis. Because it's the only one that is loopable in Australia.

Scott Benner 12:37
Okay, now we're getting to it. How long did you inject?

Sasha 12:45
From what I was, like, 16, and two to three years ago,

Scott Benner 12:53
what made you switch back?

Sasha 12:56
I'm actually listening to your podcast and reading the reading a bunch of books about diabetes, essentially, and learning that there's a lot more you can do with pumps, then I had probably previously thought,

Scott Benner 13:13
huh, well hold on a second. Well, I talked directly to Medtronic in case they're listening. See, there, I sold one for you. It wasn't like usual when people come on and say I hate my Medtronic pump this one much better for you guys. Right. You know, they're listening. Anyway. That's nice. So you wanted to loop? Yes. Gotcha. And you can't get on the pods in Australia? No. Right. Am I understanding now? Yes, excellent. Okay. So you find the podcast a couple of years ago? Would you consider your management much different today than it was two years ago? Or did you begin to work in a different way? Even sooner than that?

Sasha 13:54
I think I had. Well, growing up, I think my doctors always told me, I was doing a great job. And I think, I think mainly because I was, you know, I wasn't purposely not bolusing or anything like that. I think my agency back then Well, it's probably like, in the 80s or so. Like, it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't amazing either. And then, and then I started becoming more interested in learning about it. I think I probably saw found a couple of groups on Facebook, around diabetes. And then I started listening to your podcast and reading books and just being more interested in knowing more about it because I feel like I had I hadn't been taught really the basics. And so after that, my A once he came way down, and I started reading the book by Gary Schneider. Yep. And so I discovered I found your podcast around that time. And so I think reading the book and listening to you talk about similar ideas kind of helped cement it all together. And essentially, I think the podcast was a bit of a daily reminder of, you know, don't forget to Pre-Bolus sort of thing.

Scott Benner 15:22
Gotcha. That's really cool. I, when I hear people talk about that, that makes me happy. Because that's a that's an impact from the podcast that I did not imagine when I was making it. But I hear from people a lot about just adults living with type one who just need to be reminded and need to hear it over and over and don't have somebody to talk to about I mean, who really, you don't I mean, like, even if you had like a best friend with diabetes, you wouldn't talk about diabetes every day. So that's really cool. Can I ask you something? Do you see because you're in an interesting space, you're in your mid 20s. So you've crested How do I say this? There's this part of life. Like when you took off your pump until when you decided to probably pay closer attention in that space. That's a real like, teenage rebellion. Space, right? Like, it's, it's not uncommon. It's not like you're, you're the only one that it happened to, although you wouldn't think of it that way at the time, but when you were like, I don't want to wear this pump. You wouldn't like have a conscious thought, like, I'm 16. And I'm rebelling against something. Just you know, you just feel like I don't want this pump. And then early 20s. If you like, it's interesting. If I asked you right now, do you think you'll ever have kids? Yeah, you're right. If I would have asked you when you were 19? Do you think you'll ever have kids? What would you say?

Sasha 16:45
I probably would give them the same answer. But without much thought,

Scott Benner 16:51
Ah, I say, I always find that there's that like, early 20s time, where people are just like, don't really consider much beyond themselves. I guess. Like, it's a real exciting time. Like, I'm young, and I'm entering the world, and I'm doing this thing. And it's not till you usually get into your mid like 2526 where you start thinking like, I wonder if there's more to this. You know, it's just it's very interesting, that kind of swing through there. And I'm so glad you can't see me because for some reason, I'm swinging my hands back and forth. I caught myself doing it. And I was like, no one can see this edit still feels ridiculous. Sorry. And I know apologizing for your part. But it's a really interesting space. Like it is. If I told you you were the 50th person that told me that right around that 23 age, you were like, I wonder if I should be like, doing a better job. It's it's just such a common space for it to hit people. It's very interesting. Were you in school in that time? College?

Sasha 17:50
Yes, university.

Scott Benner 17:51
Do you call it University? I was gonna say,

Sasha 17:54
yeah, yeah, no one really call it school. College.

Scott Benner 17:57
No, say it again.

Sasha 18:00
University. No, no, I

Scott Benner 18:02
mean, you said something that I just didn't understand. Nobody calls it school or college. Oh,

Sasha 18:06
yeah. Nobody really calls it school or college. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 18:10
I know. I just love it when you guys say that also like it. If you got hurt. And you went to the big building where they take care of people, you'd go to what?

Sasha 18:20
The hospital?

Scott Benner 18:21
Oh, see, you said, Ah, why did you say that? You ruined the whole thing. Sasha. Nevermind, this interview is over. Is it? Is it the British that say hospital and not the hospital? It's Oh, I don't know. Maybe? I've heard that. Yeah, I think it's in the UK where they just say I went I went to hospital or something. I don't know. It sounds odd. Well, yeah. That's my point. There. Their steering wheels are on the wrong side of the car. They don't know what they're doing.

Sasha 18:52
And that was an adjustment as well.

Scott Benner 18:55
Where are your steering wheels? You're, you're all cool. Right on the left? Where I'm left. Yeah, you know, chillin over there. You got to be able to hit the giant spiders before they get you. It's just like Whack a Mole. I would just imagine you running around with the hammer just killing things that are trying to kill you all day. Is it like that?

Sasha 19:12
I mean, I always check the spot as big before I go to the bathroom.

Scott Benner 19:16
I have to say, Wait, do you?

Sasha 19:20
Yeah, just because like I found a couple of homespun in there couple months ago. Okay, so every time I go in now, I just have a look at the ceiling before I sit on the toilet.

Scott Benner 19:30
I appreciate you saying that very much. Because I get notes from people who are like, you know, you just boil things down to the least common denominator and everything in Australia is not going to kill you. Everything in Australia is going to kill you. It's horrible. It's like it's it's a it's a it's it's an island. Nothing can get off of it. You guys are trapped there. You realize that right?

Sasha 19:50
Yeah, well, especially with COVID. Now we're even more trapped than we were before.

Scott Benner 19:53
Exactly. And the real shame of it is the spiders don't get COVID If they did, maybe. I don't know they'd be nicer maybe they just wouldn't feel well, they'd be like, let me leave you alone. I'm just not up to it today, you know? Yeah. Bite me on your ass while you're trying to you know it's not right. Okay, so have you ever looked at a kangaroo and thought I could take that thing and want to take a run at it? Oh no, no, that kill you right those things are nasty

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If you're using insulin, you need a quality, accurate blood glucose meter. And luckily for you, I have one in mind the Contour Next One blood glucose meter it is highly accurate. It is easy to carry. And it has test strips that allow you to like you know, let me just explain. You touch the blood you know like oh, I didn't get enough and you have to like go back. You know some test strips. You can't do that with them. It ruins the test trip, but not with the Contour. Next One. Not only does it not ruin the strip to touch some blood and then go back and get more if you need it. But it doesn't ruin the accuracy of the test either. It has Second Chance test strips. It also has a bright, bright, illuminating light for nighttime viewing and an easy to read screen. Are you the kind of person who wants to have an app on your phone so you can see your data? It has that if you want it. You could do that too on an apple or an iPhone. Well, I should have said on an apple or an Android because an apple and iPhone are the same thing. But let's decide to get past that and keep going. The Contour Next One blood glucose meter is easy to carry. It is easy to use. It is easy to see at night. It has a beautiful screen where you can just right there boom This is the number I see it not hard to read you know what the squint I have a little trouble with the seeing nowadays. And I use it in the middle of the night without my glasses new Problemo Contour Next One, that calm forward slash juice box head over there right now find out more about the Contour Next One blood glucose meter you will not be sorry. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at Juicebox Podcast comm to these and all of the wonderful sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast. When you check out the sponsors, you're supporting the show. And speaking of the show, we're gonna get back to it right now. There's actually a lot of episode left a lot. Are you enjoying Sasha so far? Are you hearing her accent? Okay. Yeah. Crikey, that like, what does that mean? Crikey. I'm gonna just Google that real quick. To make sure it's not like some sort of a weird thing. People aren't allowed to say anymore. Oh, it's an Australian Electronics Magazine. Also a used as an exclamation of astonishment. Or as an emphasis of fact, at the conclusion of a statement. There's a lot more Juicebox Podcast, let's come. Crikey. That can't be right. This is apropos of nothing, but I almost call this episode, toilet spider. I just thought that was fun fact. Also, usually when people say fun fact there's nothing fun about it. So not sure why I did that.

Sasha 24:02
I mean, you get the friendly ones. And then you get the other side of the spectrum while they can get really nasty.

Scott Benner 24:10
Have you ever flipped the news on at night and heard a story about a rampaging kangaroo?

Sasha 24:18
Yeah, actually, I saw one the other day about three or four kangaroos who walked into a bottle store. Like a bottle shop. A bottle store. A bottle shop? Yes. So where they buy? They sell liquor?

Scott Benner 24:33
Oh, that's what I thought. Okay, sorry. That was a phrase I didn't know. And they walked in. And then the first one, they start telling a joke or because that sounds like the beginning of a joke for kangaroos walk into a bolo shop. And it's not. Did they like go nuts?

Sasha 24:50
Oh, I don't know. I just saw that news article just like that and All right, next thing

Scott Benner 24:55
Sasha I have to tell you that when I say something completely ridiculous and people Oh no, that's happened. I feel like I won something. I don't know. Like, I raised my hands over my head like I finished a race when you were like, Yeah, I see. I've seen that before. I was like, Yes, I know crazy things happen in the world. Why didn't nobody talk about, like, in my mind, you should get on here and go, Hey, Scott, before we get started, did you know that for kangaroos went into a bottleshop think that would be the most important thing to me if I was you. My brain works differently, I believe. Okay, we're getting lost here in the diabetes stuff, but it's okay. We'll find our way. You also, you know, you heard me say, are you nervous? And you won't Yeah, I'm not nervous, as I've done this many, many times. But it does take me a while for me to hear your accent. Right. Right. Okay. So it takes me like, I have to settle into it so that it bounces through my head and I can think while you're talking. I know that might sound strange to people, but I'm not as a I don't want anybody to laugh. But I'm not as good at this when people have thicker, thicker or, or more difficult accents. And Australians trail away in their words sometimes. Like the words disappear, as you're saying them, you wouldn't know this, because you don't hear yourself. Just like I don't hear myself when I say water.

Sasha 26:16
i Yeah, no, no, that's true, actually. Because when I first moved here, I, I didn't have as strong of an accent as I do now. And I, I would I would actually struggle on the standing

Scott Benner 26:31
like Australians, but you hear it now. Okay.

Sasha 26:35
Yeah, because I'm used to it. And I think I've, you know, joined them in the sense I have. But when I moved here I was, yeah, people were confused about my accent because I think I had a mix of black, British and American, a little bit of Australian. Yeah, somewhere. It's just interesting,

Scott Benner 26:53
because you're like, somewhere, and it just kind of goes away, like and so my brains like, What is she saying? Oh, she's saying where I hear it. Now. My brother in law is from Scotland. And when he's talking, all I hear is Ay ay ay ay ay, ay. Like, I just hear noises. I don't even hear words like there are times that I understand the first couple of words, he says, and then I just assume the rest of what he's saying. And then not along where it feels appropriate. He never hears this. There are things I know he thinks he's told me that I don't have any frame of reference for so sorry, Jim, if you're listening?

Sasha 27:30
Yeah, I've done that before. Don't worry. I'm just like, I think everyone does it.

Scott Benner 27:34
Right. He makes this point then he's like, I, I'm like, I don't know what that means. Now, I'm only laughing because I can hear him in my head. I should get a room I'm gonna do next time I'm with I'm just going to get him to say, I'll read him a sentence and have him repeat it back into a recorder and I'll bring it back so you guys can hear it. But you're not gonna understand a damn word. He's saying. That's, it's just really cool. Anyway, I'm getting used to your to your speech pattern. So I'm doing okay. Now. MDI lube, and I'm gonna find it my question. Okay. So I remember back when you said, the doctors were telling you, you're doing well. And I think that's important for doctors to like, listen to, and I now know, there are enough of them listening. Like you guys really have to pay attention to this. Just because Sasha saw a doctor who some people were doing, you know, a one season attends doesn't mean her eight is terrific. You know, like you, you have to stop judging people against each other. Like, I oh, this person has a seven, you're doing great. Well, that person might want a six or a five. And what happened to you when you were told you were doing great? You just accepted? Yeah,

Sasha 28:48
I yeah, I believe them. And for a long time. I think I was in. I think I was in denial, actually. Because everyone was telling me how great I was doing. And so to anyone who'd asked me or Hey, what's that on your hip? I'd be like, Oh, it's an insulin pump. I've got diabetes, but I'm fine. Like, everything's fine. sort of thing. Yeah. And, and it was when I found out about CGM, and I tried one. I was like, Oh, hang on. I'm not fine.

Scott Benner 29:22
Right. Yeah, you mix. Listen. It's a weird thing, right? Like, you're trying to balance, kindness, and empathy. But at the same time, you have to see yourself as a parent of somebody with diabetes, if you're a doctor, like you're trying to help them grow up with it. So it's, you know, if you send your kid out to play a sport, and they suck, are you benefiting them by telling them, they're great? And so I guess if it's a kid who's never really going to play this game throughout their life, and you just want them to feel like oh, I tried and I did. Okay. Hey, that's fine. But there are some people who want to excel and telling them that they're doing great when they're not the holds them back. So you have to figure out who you're talking to, before you say your thing. And it sounds like sounds like you would have been able to reach for more, if you thought there was more to reach for.

Sasha 30:21
Yeah, I think so. It's about balance, right? Like, you gotta, like, I'm not saying they shouldn't tell you, you're doing a great job, but they should definitely still be telling you. Hey, like, there's a lot more that you could be doing. Let's talk about it.

Scott Benner 30:36
Yeah, it all doesn't have to happen in one second. It could have been incremental. It could have been like, Hey, you're doing terrific. I bet you though, if you Pre-Bolus Jamil here, maybe this would happen. I'm fascinated by the Pre-Bolus. Same thing. I think I always will be. I think Pre-Bolus thing knocks a point off your agency, you know about and yeah, the people don't take the time to explain it. So that you could try, like even just Pre-Bolus Singh, half the meal. Like even if you were having 50 carbs, and I said just Pre-Bolus 25 of them and putting the other 25 When you eat. We make a huge difference.

Sasha 31:14
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, when I first heard about it, I think it was in, in one of the books I was reading, and I brought it up to my inner and I was like, I mean, I read this, like, what, what do you think? And she was like, oh, no, we don't usually tell you guys to do that. Because then you go low. Alright,

Scott Benner 31:38
we don't usually tell you guys, because it's a lot of work for us to explain it to you. So why don't you just have poor health instead? Okay, see you next time. Thanks for coming. We appreciate the money. I'm gonna go buy a car with it. Thanks, doc. big help to me. Hopefully one day I'll be able to drive a car if I can see. No thanks to you. It just really is. It's kind of interesting. And also, I've never said this before, Sacha. But I'm gonna say it here. I'm freaked out that Pre-Bolus thing is even a word. Like why do you need a word for doing something correctly? Like you drive a car? Right? Yeah. Okay. Do you step on the brake? The split second before you're about to hit something? Or do you brake prior to getting to the thing?

Sasha 32:30
Yeah, you brake prior.

Scott Benner 32:31
Do you think we should call it pre braking?

Sasha 32:36
That's a good point. I've never thought about

Scott Benner 32:38
why. That's how insulin works. So when you tell somebody to count your carbs, start eating and Bolus, you're you've started off explaining the incorrect way to use insulin. Like we've somehow because because so many people out of fear have told people to use insulin incorrectly. We have to have a name for how to do it correctly. To talk people into it. It has to sound fancy. And by the way, whoever came up with Pre-Bolus That is a very basic term. It's so lame. And I mean, basic the way the kids would say, You know what I mean? Like, you could have come up with something better, like we should have, it should have a fancier name is what I'm saying. Like pre what would you call it? I don't know. I hadn't thought about it before Sasha, no, you're gonna put me on the spot like this. Jesus? I don't know. We'll have a contest. And we'll have somebody come up with a name for I don't know, I don't know. I mean, it's just, it's not you're not Pre-Bolus thing. You're Bolus thing. And if the insulin takes a half an hour to start working, or 20, or whatever it is, well, then Damn it. That's, that's not a special thing. That's the way it's supposed to happen. Again, it's not called pre braking. It's, it's your braking, you're stopping your car. So I don't know. Like, that just never makes sense to me. I've never articulated it before. But I'm upset that it. It got put into practice incorrectly. And so that we had to then talk people into doing it correctly. I don't know. It's bothersome to me. But anyway, you went to the doctor with the book. And you were like, Hey, Gary says I should probably Pre-Bolus at the doctor's like, No, we don't do that.

Sasha 34:17
Yeah, pretty much.

Scott Benner 34:18
What did you do then?

Sasha 34:21
Oh, I went home and did it anyway. I think that you have to, right. I mean, if if they're not willing to talk you through the ideas that you just found out about? Then you got to take it into your own hands. I guess.

Scott Benner 34:38
You don't have to tell me specifically but what do you do for a living?

Sasha 34:42
I'm a student. Okay. That didn't

Scott Benner 34:45
help me. Damn it. There's my story. Alright, well, I'll just make something up instead. Sasha students. Alright, hold on. We'll get back to you in a second. I'm just saying imagine being feckless at your job. Like imagine getting up every morning and knowing you're gonna get Have people half of the information? Or some of it, but not all of it? And that when they come to you and say, Hey, I learned this other thing, you would go? Yeah, I wouldn't think about that. If I was you. That's you, anyone who's doing that should look inward. Because there are people in front of you who are looking for help. And you're, you're telling them, it doesn't exist, and then they go out and find it. And then somehow, you're still able to look them in the face and tell them it doesn't exist. I think what happened to you around that is horrible. Really, and I'm not over exaggerating, I think it's lazy. And it's malpractice, in my opinion. So

Sasha 35:39
anyway, and I think it happens to a lot of people,

Scott Benner 35:41
I think it happens to most people,

Sasha 35:43
and, and it makes it normal. So you know, if then you're the odd one out who actually does get all of the proper advice that you need to succeed. Then every everyone is like, whoa, like, where did you come from?

Scott Benner 35:59
And by the way, if you're a doctor, and you're hearing this that makes you upset, just tell people how to handle themselves, and the podcast won't exist anymore. And I won't have anywhere to talk. So there you go, I won't have to, I won't be able to talk about you anymore. Meanwhile, I don't want to obviously, there are a lot of great doctors too. That's certainly the truth. But, you know, just this thing. I think we've gotten to the point where somehow this little story about what happened to you is so commonplace, that we're not outraged by it the way we should be. Your doctor was unwilling to tell you how insulin works. It's the key of how you're staying alive. It's the key to your long term health success. It's the key to your short term health success. It's it's it's a lot. And we're just like, Oh, it doesn't matter. You don't need to know that part. So I'm sorry.

Sasha 36:50
Oh, I was gonna say actually, I always wondered whether I had missed out on some information because I moved. So because I went, I went from going to a doctor, in you know, in the pediatric ward in Geneva, to the adult clinic in a different country. I thought, well, maybe I just missed the transition there. And the information got lost on the way.

Scott Benner 37:18
So like, this really important thing you needed to know was going to be the next thing they told you. But you happen to move in that time. And now it's gone. You missed that opportunity.

Sasha 37:29
Yeah, I mean, I still wonder, maybe that, you know, there's, you know, they give you like, a couple of sheets of paper, or like some kind of like independence package, or whatever you want to call it before you turn 18 to be able to go out and do it on your own.

Scott Benner 37:46
And that actually stuck with you, like there's so see that there's another example of what this does to people. There's this feeling of incomplete that lives in you in an anxious way. Like, I wonder if I'm like, I know, I must be missing something. Or maybe I am like, no one should have to feel that way. around something as knowable as managing insulin. It's, it's not an unknowable thing. It's not it's not like a it's not a big surprise when it goes right for people. And just okay, when it doesn't go, right. Like it's, I don't know, I think that people should have options. And if they can't, if they can't live up to them with good direction, that's a shame. And there should be ways to help those people as well. But everyone else shouldn't suffer. Because you think most people aren't going to figure this out. So we'll just let them all live like this. It's very, um, it's terrible. It is what it is. But I was gonna ask you what you're going to school for? Because I mean, 25 Sounds like you're going to be a brain surgeon. You don't?

Sasha 38:51
Well, actually, math surgeon. So I'm, I'm doing my PhD in, in metabolic neuroscience, and I work with animals.

Scott Benner 39:02
Metabolic neuroscience. What have you just been a you propping me up to this conversation? Sasha, what's going on here? That sounds really like I don't I'm not sure if I know how to spell metabolic. It's got to be in a in there somewhere right near the near the B. No. It's right now. Of course I am. I don't know what you just said. You just said I'm a Space Ranger and I'm trying to figure out what metabolic Doros Jesus I can't find the letters. But Google doesn't even know it's a thing

Sasha 39:41
trying to understand how the brain controls metabolism.

Scott Benner 39:47
Oh, that's important to me. Seriously, I some belly fat I want to go Why are you is that what are you just working on that for me? Or is it for other things too? What do you what What's the idea behind learning about this?

Sasha 40:02
No, it's for other things as well. Um, part of my actually part of my PhD is about understanding how insulin works in the brain, and how it affects not only metabolic functions, so things like blood glucose, as we all know, but also behavior. So that would be like mood and anxiety and depression and memory and those kinds of things.

Scott Benner 40:33
Yeah. So you when, when you hear me talking about like, people getting to feel the way they're supposed to feel that must mean more to you than it does to other people, then?

Sasha 40:45
Yeah, I guess, I think it's, it's an interesting thing, because when you when you say insulin, to the general population, they automatically think blood glucose. And of course, that's, that is what the first thing you should be thinking of. But insulin also has a whole lot of other functions in the brain. So we know that, you know, if you if you disrupt the function of insulin signal in the brain, that can cause issues that can cause depression that can cause anxiety. And a lot of those things can be independent of the effects on blood glucose, which is really interesting.

Scott Benner 41:29
Okay. When it goes far as to impact Alzheimer's and other brain functions like that, or no?

Sasha 41:38
Yeah, definitely. Alzheimer's is known as type three diabetes. So what happens in the brain is pretty similar to what you would see in Alzheimer's. Really? Yeah,

Scott Benner 41:53
I feel like you're going to talk about things I'm not going to be able to understand, but I'm still going to try. So what is like in your mind? What do you hope to learn? or figure out? And why is it important?

Sasha 42:12
So what I've just described here is just one part of my project of my PhD. But essentially, I'm looking at a specific area of the brain and trying to understand how it takes in information about your metabolism. So are you in a calorie deficit? Are you in a calorie excess eye? Is your blood glucose low? Is your local girth high? How does it take in how does your brain take in that information? And then is able to tell you, Okay, this is the behavior that we're going to perform now. Based on that information,

Scott Benner 42:56
and the behavior could be anything from, like something that I see like maybe a person feels hungry because they've got too much insulin in their body. And so they overeat.

Sasha 43:08
Yeah, for example, right? So it could be around food, but it could also be around your mood. So are you going to be more anxious? Are you going to feel depressed?

Scott Benner 43:23
And are those things impacted by more or less insulin?

Sasha 43:30
Well, it gets a bit complicated.

Scott Benner 43:33
Well, the whole thing's a bit complicated. I googled metabolic neuroscience and nothing pops up. Just like Google's like, Hey, you must be you must be talking to somebody smarter than you. Because I don't know what you're talking about here. It's how so so like, so let's pick one thing? Let's pick? I don't know, we'll pick depression for a second. So how would insulin impact depression?

Sasha 44:01
Oh, so I'm not looking at depression specifically. But there are studies showing that if you if, for example, you delete the insulin receptor in the brain. It mean it the effects that that has. So if you do that in mice, you see that these mice then become more anxious and more depressed. In certain specific scenarios.

Scott Benner 44:30
specific scenarios like,

Sasha 44:32
well, if you test them, so we do behavioral tests with the animals to test certain things. So for example, you put the mouse in an open arena, with a big light on top, we know that the mice are afraid of open spaces because they're afraid of potential predators. So then you have a look at where the mice the mouse is going to spend the most of its time and you can analyze that and say, Well, how spending most of its time in the corners of the arena or in the center. And so if it's spending more time in the center, then it's not as anxious.

Scott Benner 45:11
And you can actually see that there's a correlation between that and this insulin receptor. Yes. Wow. Can you impact the receptor?

Sasha 45:21
You can delete it. Sorry. That's, that's what I've been doing for the past few months.

Scott Benner 45:27
So when you take that, so you're taking the receptor away? Do you do it with pharma circles?

Sasha 45:35
With with genetically encoded viruses,

Scott Benner 45:41
okay, so there's a virus that goes in and deletes this on. That's amazing, first of all, and and now you take that away, and that makes the mice more anxious. So you see them in the corners more? Yes. Is there a way to bolster that so that they're braver and sit in the middle and just sunbathe under the light?

Sasha 46:06
That would be cool. I don't know. At this point, I don't know.

Scott Benner 46:11
Right. But that's the kind of things you're trying to, to learn about.

Sasha 46:16
Yes, that's just trying to learn how how it works.

Scott Benner 46:20
Right. So this receptor, is that is it? Are you at the point where you can say, is it overworking and that's making them anxious? Like, should they not be as anxious as they are? Like, they I'm assuming that you're looking for some way for this to translate into like people at some point, like you're not just trying to perfect the mouse population of the planet, unless these mice can kill spiders? And then, of course, let us weaponize them immediately. But

Sasha 46:50
I mean, that would be incredibly scary.

Scott Benner 46:53
Well, you need to be able to pee and peace. Can you imagine if you just had like a little mouse that you released? Nevermind, we're getting down the wrong road? So like, I'm like, what's the impact for people? Like? Are you trying to figure out why people are like, how much impact this has on depression, anxiety, things like that?

Sasha 47:12
Yes, that's one aspect of it. So there are people showing that if you use insulin intranasally so in the nose, that can alleviate some of the effects of depression and anxiety

Scott Benner 47:30
instead of using an injected insulin?

Sasha 47:34
Yes. So essentially bypassing the effect on blood glucose,

Scott Benner 47:38
by effectively. Oh,

Sasha 47:42
yeah. So if you inject it in your blood, if you just get an injection under the skin, then it's going to obviously affect your blood glucose, right? It's going to drop. But if you put it up your nose, depending I think, depending on the dose, or I don't know too much about that. But it's just a study of it. And I thought it was really interesting. But yeah, essentially, you're kind of you don't have that big drop in blood glucose, but you do still have the effects in the brain. And that seems to be showing that people generally tend to feel better. They have more self confidence, they feel less stressed.

Scott Benner 48:21
No kidding. And we should say not to do that. Right. Like because, like, please don't try that. Okay, thank you.

Sasha 48:29
Thank you this at home.

Scott Benner 48:31
It's not like it's not like a thing that like everyone could do. This isn't a controlled lab situation, etc. And one study that's in credible though, so is the see the whole thing, Sasha and if I'm an idiot, you'll stop me. And you'll sound incredibly bright doing it because you have your accent. But I just think of when you look around and you see people who are some are overweight, some are underweight, some people struggle with one thing, some people have anxiety, some people don't. To me, it's all fine tuning inside of your body that we don't understand how to tune right, like we do our best with diet and exercise and supplements, you know, you know, I can bring my vitamin D up with a supplement, like that kind of thing. But there is if there were, if there were knobs on your back there, there would be a fine tuning that would work better for your body than often the fine tuning that you got from nature. Am I right about that in a really strange way?

Sasha 49:33
Um, I guess you guess I think that's a very complicated question. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 49:38
it's incredibly complicated. But if if you could plug a computer into me and somehow magically had readings for all of my settings, where everything was where my iron level is, and and you know, function of my liver and all this and you could just turn knobs and perfect them. Then there would be a more harmonious, like physical life for me if you could do that. And I mean, is that like the end goal of all this is to fine tune people at some point.

Sasha 50:12
Right? I mean, yeah, I guess like if you think about it in terms of, you know, potential therapies for obesity, diabetes and psychiatric disorders, but I think that's way down

Scott Benner 50:26
the line. Oh, no, I don't like, uh, yeah,

Sasha 50:28
I mean, um, yeah, of course, yeah. I'm just, I'm just my, what I'm doing is really just trying to understand how it works.

Scott Benner 50:37
No, no, I mean, yeah, you're in the infancy of something that if we get to the end of it would be a millennium from now, probably. But I mean, it's not, it doesn't make it untrue. That, you know, I could pull any random person off the street and give them a blood test. And while they might be, quote, unquote, in range, they still maybe could benefit from a little more of one thing a little less of another. And that I just think that, how do I mean this, you know, when you see somebody who's just like, jacked up, and they're just like, in amazing shape, and you look at them, and you think like, Oh, my God, I would never be in shape like that. And they're just, they're rock hard. And they everything looks like it works for them. And they go to run, and they run off like a cheetah. And they're not, they're not winded when it's over. And you just think, well, they just want some sort of a genetic lottery. You know what I mean? Like, and then you see another person who doesn't have that ability. That person didn't do anything wrong, or different. You know what I mean? They were just born like everybody else. And I don't know, it's always occurred to me, it's a deeper thought. And it's a little, like, maybe we should have mushrooms to talk about it. I don't know. But just, it just seems to me like, there's an obvious unfairness to being alive. And sometimes when when people like you were looking at stuff like this, I think, Wow, maybe one day, they'll figure out how to turn one of those knobs, you know, anyway, I think it's really cool.

Sasha 52:01
I think I think that's a comforting way for people to think about it. But I think that the environment effects a lot of it. Like obviously, genes, you know, some people, quote unquote, and better genes than others. But how you live, I think, is underrated. Yeah, just where you are and how it affects? Yeah.

Scott Benner 52:27
Like, we could take two babies, and they can be exactly the same. And I can put one of those babies in a middle income household, it's got radon, and I could put one of those babies in an upper income household that doesn't have radon. And if we track them, their health would probably go in two different directions.

Sasha 52:48
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And like you were describing them, God would ricotta ABS will, you know, that person? Obviously, didn't get there. In you know, a couple of days.

Scott Benner 53:01
It's interesting. I, so I like what you just said, when you said, I think people could find that comforting. It felt like what you said was Scott, you're a child, and you think like a child. You were trying to be polite.

Sasha 53:15
Okay, no, I did not mean that. He didn't mean that I was

Scott Benner 53:17
certain that you were like, Hey, idiot. Stop, stop dreaming. That's not how it's gonna work. And I know, a listen, I understand it probably never going to work like that. But it just, it's interesting to think that in a perfect world, it could. I mean, listen, you, you know, you have type one diabetes, they check your vitamin D level. Right. And that's something they don't do for most people.

Sasha 53:46
I actually don't think I've ever had that checked.

Scott Benner 53:48
Really? This Australia's let you down? You should have that checked.

Sasha 53:53
Yeah, I mean, I do take it most days. I do take a supplement most days, but I don't think I've ever had it checked.

Scott Benner 53:59
Okay. Alright, let's have that done. Our next bloodwork because a lower vitamin D level is can be more common with people with type one. Just imagine that like that simple thing, like taking a supplement everyday of vitamin D that could improve your life. And you wouldn't even know to think of it that way. And then think of all the the back say that is true. Say you taking vitamin D would improve your life, but then you go to the store and buy like some crappy vitamin D supplement that doesn't work as well as it should. And so you still don't get the benefit. Like there's so many barriers to success along like everything. I don't know you're making me sad about I don't know how this is happening. I'm so sorry. No, no. I feel like I'm in a sadness matrix. It just it um I think it's from doing the podcast like it. It's sad to me that some people They'll not know how to Pre-Bolus their insulin. It's sad to me to think that your vitamin D level could be lower and it could be impacting your life or that I just saw a person. The other day, who I know is listening to the podcast for a long time, has been struggling with something that was clearly thyroid related, that they didn't realize was thyroid related until they listened to the podcast about the fibroid and then thought, Oh, well, I have those symptoms, I should check. And they checked, and now they're on their way, you know, to getting it fixed. But without a podcast episode would have never thought that the problems they were having were thyroid related. So imagine that imagine you're low on energy, gaining weight. Moody, like all these things are happening to you. But no one will ever figure out your thyroid until you get so sick, that you land at a hospital and they do so many tests. And eventually somebody goes, Oh, look how high their TSH is there they have Hashimotos. It's, that part makes me sad. And I think that might be specifically because of my job. Because I don't think most people think of illness as that. But I always think like there's something you could see or do if you knew to see or do it, it would save you the time. And to meet the times what's most important, like this time that this person spent not feeling well, is lost. And that that bothers me more than anything else. And it has nothing to do with what you're going to school for. But this is where your what your life has led me. So anyway, I'm sorry. I feel like

Sasha 56:40
no, no, I do understand what you mean. Yeah. Um, I think I think it's hard as well, because you don't I think a lot of people, especially at the start after diagnosis, they're not necessarily in the right mindset to absorb all that information anyway. So even if you tell them they might, you know, not remember or not see it as important,

Scott Benner 57:04
right. And that's why it's important to have doctors that don't look at your eight a one C and go doing great Sasha, go get them kit. You need somebody to say how you feeling? Oh, I feel a little tired. Really? Okay, let's figure out why not just have you tried cutting back on potato chips? Like I mean, sure, potato chips, probably not great. But, you know, like, there's never, I guess until you meet a really thoughtful doctor, you don't recognize what it means to not have one. And like, I was lucky enough to meet a woman named Allie Benito who came on and did the thyroid episode, specifically, but she's also my, my, my family, anybody in my family who has a thyroid issue, she's their doctor, and to see somebody, know what they're doing, and be able to test levels and infer things from them and make adjustments to medication, like a ninja, and not make it take eight or nine months for you to feel better. Like that adjustment time when you see your doctor be like, well, let's just try a little more a little like you're ruining people's lives. If you don't know what you're doing like that. Like, let's throw a dart and see if it hits. You're just you're still in days and weeks and months from people and they could get they could get frustrated and just stop trying. And so it's amazing to have someone who can kind of like, like, just dial in right away and know what to do. And I mean, I know every every person can't be like that. But everybody should. Everyone deserves a doctor like that. I guess. They think your story somehow made me upset. It's not your fault. How far off? are you apologizing to me? Stop it. What did you so what do you do with this degree? Like once you get this thing? You get a job somewhere? And what do you what are you hoping to do?

Sasha 58:58
That's a very loaded question. Because I'm asking myself that every day. I don't know. I honestly don't know. I'm, I've got about six to nine months left to be able to finish this PhD. And afterwards, I'm not sure but I am interested in potentially going into clinical trials. Not necessarily anything to do with insulin in the brain. But yeah, working with animals is a very specific job. I feel like I don't always agree with everything that's going on there. So I I don't aspire to work with animals for the rest of my life.

Scott Benner 59:44
Okay, because of how they're treated during testing.

Sasha 59:49
Yeah, yeah, pretty much and I think I also became a vegetarian a couple years ago. So I feel like that doesn't really align with that.

Scott Benner 59:59
How do you handle the spiders now? He's trying to shoo them out the window

Sasha 1:00:05
Okay, spiders are different though. Long in my heart

Scott Benner 1:00:12
there's a level to this vegetarianism for you have any line, the line forms right around a spider near your butt. I got you I level things not you I'd never eat a chicken, but I will squish you. I see I listen, you're not going to get me to argue with you.

Sasha 1:00:37
Oh, look, it's also because, you know, when you when you work with animals, you don't really have a, you don't necessarily have a nine to five Monday to Friday job. You are required to, you know, go in on the weekends and check that they're okay. And I just don't want that kind of responsibility.

Scott Benner 1:00:54
You want your weekends to yourself? Yeah, yeah. What do you do on the weekend?

Sasha 1:01:00
Uh, honestly, it sounds really sad, but I just work.

Scott Benner 1:01:04
Oh, so that's what you're trying to avoid? Like? Exactly. So you want the things you imagine people do on the weekends? That's right, right. Are you going to stay in Australia? Or do you want to go back to France?

Sasha 1:01:17
Um, I think I will go back eventually, in the next few years.

Scott Benner 1:01:22
Interesting. Where's the healthcare system better? For you? Ah,

Sasha 1:01:28
I, I don't know, actually, because I never lived in France as an adult. So I wasn't privy to all of that, you know, insurance healthcare kind of information. For it sounds, I think I think Australia's overall pretty good because a lot of a lot of a lot of things are subsidized, especially insulin, and things like you know, needles and insulin pump consumables and that sort of thing. But, but it is very sad. That CGM is not covered by anyone and Australia.

Scott Benner 1:02:09
Sounds like they're making progress on that. But it's slow.

Sasha 1:02:13
Yeah, it is very slow. I think now, anyone under 21 years of age, or pregnant or thinking of becoming pregnant is able to get CGM for free. But that's it.

Scott Benner 1:02:30
Are you using one? Well, you are obviously because you're looping. So, but you're using the Medtronic one.

Sasha 1:02:37
No, I'm on G six.

Scott Benner 1:02:39
Oh, I'm sorry, the Dexcom and then the Medtronic pump this loopable. Got it? Yes.

Sasha 1:02:46
I'm, I agree with you. I'm not a fan of Medtronic. To be honest. I, I only went to the to the Medtronic one because that's the only one that's loopable. But before that I was using tandem.

Scott Benner 1:02:57
Yeah. i Well, hopefully, they're not listening anymore. Because you said something nice earlier, I don't want them to hear this. And I don't want people who love their, their, their Medtronic pumps to be mad at me, which has happened in the past. So I don't need that. Although it led to a great interview. If you've never heard it, I'll try to find it for you but and tell you privately, because I don't have the information right now. But one time Jenny and I were talking about Medtronic pumps, and Jenny didn't like using it, and didn't have like glowing things to say about it. And then I got this very passionate note from a guy who was like, who loved his pump. And was he was clearly mad. And then I was just like, hey, alright, cool, like, come on the podcast and tell me about it, then we had a great conversation. So it was a it was really interesting. But it was interesting to see that someone felt like that pump meant more to him than it wasn't just an object. Like it was it was a really important thing to him. And he felt like defending its honor was really it was kind of it was amazing, actually, to watch it all play out. And I'm so glad that I didn't just ignore his note or, you know, and when I was younger, I just wanted to like argued with him for fun, but I didn't. I just was like instead let me talk to you and see what's going on here. Anyway, whatever pump you Yes, amazing if it's working for you,

Sasha 1:04:17
i Yes, I can relate to that. I remember being a kid when I first got that pump i i walked out of the hospital with that pump, but I was never actually asked if I wanted to use it. Yeah, or if I wanted to do MDI, but I kept it for so long. And I remember they were trying to push me to get, you know, the newest version, and I was like, No, this is fine. I like this one. Like, I don't like change. Like, this is my palm like I'm keeping it. So yeah, I can relate to to that person that you were talking to. It makes

Scott Benner 1:04:51
me wonder about how because Arden's used on the pod, her whole life and it's disposable. I wonder if it feels differently To her, like, I wonder if it doesn't like she has no real connection to it because the thing that every three days she throws away. Like, I wonder if that like psychologically, yes, a difference or not? I don't know. I'm really like, in my own head this morning. Maybe it was too early for us to do this. I don't know. For me, it's super late for you. But it's I don't know why I'm, I feel like, you know what I'm saying? Okay, sounds like I'm high today. I'm like, like, what about this? Do you think? Just, I'm just very worried about this today for some reason. I'm sorry. If i How are your expectations so far? Is this like, Are you like, God, we didn't talk about any of the things I want to talk about. Are we doing okay?

Sasha 1:05:43
No, no, this has been good. Has it really? Well,

Scott Benner 1:05:47
I can't tell sometimes. Like, I'm having a good time. That's my only measuring stick. Like when I get done. I'm like how I like that. And then I think other people like it, too. But I don't know. It's a crapshoot. I don't actually know any of you who are listening. So it's just my best guess for what's interesting. Like I found this incredibly interesting. So, okay, are you dating at all? Yes, you've okay, even with school? That's possible. And with your weekends taken up?

Sasha 1:06:19
Yes, I've been with my boyfriend for almost three years now.

Scott Benner 1:06:22
Is that boy gonna go to France with you? If you go to France? That's the plan. Wow. He likes you. Okay. All right. Does he speak French?

Sasha 1:06:35
No, he doesn't. I see him trying to tell him to stop. So French lessons on the side. I took

Scott Benner 1:06:42
three years of French Sasha in high school. I know Neph is nine.

Sasha 1:06:49
That's all Yeah, that's no French.

Scott Benner 1:06:51
Yeah, I don't think so. either. That's all I got out of that. I sat in that room for three years thinking, Do not call on me. Please do not call him. Please, please, please don't ask me a question. I was not good at it. I don't think I have the capacity to learn other languages. But it's a my daughter talks about, like when she's younger, she's like, I want to go too fast. She wants to go to school for fashion. And so she talks about New York and France. And she's like, you know, when she was longer? Like if I want to go to school in France, could I? And I'm like, Yeah, of course. Meanwhile, I don't know how to pay for that. And I have no idea if that's actually possible. But what I've learned is that most people, things people say don't actually happen anyway. So it's better just to be positive. Like, yeah, of course you can. But I don't know what she would do if she got there. And, you know, couldn't speak any French? What would you do? Like, what is your? Good?

Sasha 1:07:51
I feel like if you actually move there, you have no choice but to learn it.

Scott Benner 1:07:56
Yeah, you don't know me, I would walk around. Just be the rest of my life. Gandia Has anyone ever noticed you'd be saying this in French? But you know, just you'd be like, do you ever notice that guy? Scott never talks to anybody? It's because I would just be going I don't understand anything. Anyone say? I just I don't know, my brain doesn't do that. Like it wouldn't hear you say a word and hold the thing and eventually learn the word. I mean, maybe it would, but I have no confidence that what I guess I should say.

Sasha 1:08:27
And I think I think most people think about it like that. If they're just trying to learn it in their home country. It's obviously a lot more difficult. But if you are by yourself in a different country, I think that eventually you just kind of learn it somehow.

Scott Benner 1:08:44
How long do you think it'll take your boyfriend before? He's, like, you know, can get by?

Sasha 1:08:52
Oh, tough question. I don't know. You see Australia, right? Yes, yes.

Scott Benner 1:09:00
Would you feel any pressure if you moved him to France to stay with him? Even if you didn't like him anymore? Because you took him to France?

Sasha 1:09:11
Well, I wouldn't take them. I wouldn't take him if I didn't like him.

Scott Benner 1:09:15
No, I understand. That's not what I'm asking you. Hold on Sasha. This is gonna be fun. Don't let me ruin your life though. Okay, stop me if it's getting that. What if you get there? And a couple of years from now. You're like, this boy. Tired of him. Okay. But then your next thought is I moved him from Australia to France. I can't break up with him.

Sasha 1:09:32
See what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, seriously.

Scott Benner 1:09:36
Just be careful. Okay. When you're when you're mid 20s Nothing makes sense. But you feel like when I was 25 I was like, I understand everything. And then when I was 30, I was like, Oh, my God was 25. I might have been like, like, stupid. So and now I'm 50 and I think I was 40 I was an idiot. So just that keeps happening. Anyway, I don't want to see the guy abandoned in France. That's only speaking seven words and one of them being baguette. You know, they mean, and he's just like, staying alive on bread.

Sasha 1:10:06
I mean, hey, that's all you need, right?

Scott Benner 1:10:09
Don't you wish? Okay, I'm sorry. This has nothing to do with anything. But how come French people eat so much more bread and aren't heavier?

Sasha 1:10:18
I don't know. I'm right. Yeah. I've had a lot of people make that comment to me in Australia. And I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:10:28
Like, if I just moved to France, can I eat more carbs? And I'll be okay. Some to do with how far you are from like, the, the equator

Sasha 1:10:39
maybe it's jeans? Oh, portion sizes? I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:10:42
You know, I'm realizing now because I'm an idiot about most things that France and where I am is probably fairly equivalent distances from the equator. So the joke doesn't even work. But at least I could figure that out reasonably quickly. But no, I'm a bit seriously. Yeah, like, that's fascinating. Like, there's bread with everything, right?

Sasha 1:11:01
Yeah, yeah, pretty much and wine

Scott Benner 1:11:03
and cheese. And if I like that I'd weigh 500 pounds. That seems unfair. Right, do I have to go to France with you? Just to find out if I can eat breaking. Imagine if I showed up and I was like, Alright, let's do this. Sasha, where's the bread? And then like, Okay, have a great time. No, two weeks into it. You'd be like, Scott, you're you're blowing up like a balloon. You have to stop. I'd be 20 pounds heavier. In a week and a half. Trust me. That's amazing. Okay, uh, how is he? So you're right now, I want to finish up with this. So you're looping. Where's your a onesie right now?

Sasha 1:11:43
Um, it's under six.

Scott Benner 1:11:45
Good for you. It's lovely. And prior to that, and was loop. So was the podcast reminded you of things. It sounds like Gary's book got you thinking about it. The podcast kind of the focus for you. The podcast acts as a reminder for you, you learn about loop from the show. And what's the progress of your agency through that time period.

Sasha 1:12:10
I think the biggest change was just getting a CGM and being able to see what my blood sugar was doing in between meals, and that brought it down from like, I think seven to six. Gotcha. All like six and a half around there. Yeah. And, and then getting the pump and looping allowed me to not, I guess not stress about it as much. I feel like when I got this is something I heard a lot of people talk about, but I am when I get first got the CGM. I was just stressed all the time about it. Because obviously, you know, everything is in real time. And you're, you're getting stressed about the direction of the arrows.

Scott Benner 1:12:57
Maybe you should snort some insulin.

Sasha 1:13:04
I'll try that next time.

Scott Benner 1:13:05
As you were saying that my brains like oh god, she's walking right into a joke about the insulin and the nose thing. This is fantastic. It's weird to have to have to to have to have a conversation and direct entertainment at the same time. Like sometimes my brains thinking about two things at once. Maybe I could learn French. But it's just like I was I was really amazed by what you were saying. Yeah, at the same time, I was like, Can I just joke about this them not talk about the joke, but I've broken the third wall down a while ago with you so it doesn't matter anymore. Wow. Okay, so you so that you see your you see your blood sugar's at first. It's anxious to be able to see them. But do you still feel like that now?

Sasha 1:13:54
No, or not as much at

Scott Benner 1:13:57
least we've helped you with that. Because why you're not afraid of Lowe's as much.

Sasha 1:14:03
I was never really afraid of Lowe's. I was more afraid of heights actually. Because, you know, I've ever seen telling you, yeah, if I want CS above a certain number, your feet will fall off or something.

Scott Benner 1:14:19
Okay, but they never said hey, if your blood sugar gets too low, you'll pass out.

Sasha 1:14:24
No interest. I

mean, it was it was kind of implied. But yeah, it didn't seem it didn't seem like as big of an issue because you know, you just eat and Bob's your uncle.

Scott Benner 1:14:42
So two things. First of all, that's interesting, because what it proves is whatever mind set you put somebody in, is where they are. That's where they started. So you, you somebody didn't start off by making you scared of being alone and so you weren't. Right. That's amazing. Did you just say Bob, your uncle? Or did I completely misunderstand you? Your uncle, Bob's your uncle? So that's the same. Yeah. I have no frame of reference for that.

Sasha 1:15:16
It's, you're like, everything's, everything's fine. Like, that's, that's the way it is. sort of thing. That's what it means. All right,

Scott Benner 1:15:25
hold on. Bob's your uncle is a phrase commonly used in Ireland, the United Kingdom in the Commonwealth countries. That means and there it is, or, and there you have it, or it's done. Typically someone says it to conclude a set of simple instructions, or when a result is reached. Bob's your uncle. Gotcha. When you said that I thought I was having a stroke. It was like, Oh, I'm not hearing words anymore. You're sort of reaching for water. I'm like, mid hydrated, maybe I'm dehydrated. And then I thought I'm gonna let it go. And then I'm like, no, no, I gotta find out what that what just happened there. Okay. And so that's just that's just what it is. It is what it is. Gotcha. It is what it is what it is. Okay. Um, I might start saying that I'm making a note here. Also, by the way, congratulation. You named your episode. Great. Bob's your uncle. That's okay. So but but my, my original point, I'm sorry, I'm keeping you long. Are you okay? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. My original point back there was that if a doctor gets you, the first thing they make you afraid of, is the thing you're going to be afraid of? Like, because it seems like they must know something. And it's the beginning, right? So you're like, well, there's this learned person here, who obviously knows way more about diabetes than I do. And this is what they've told me to be afraid of, my feet are gonna fall off, if I let my blood sugar be too high. That's the vibe you got. And you know, if a doctor says, Look, if you get low, you're going to drop dead, you know, that. And that's the vibe you get from somebody, then you avoid the lows. And so by avoiding the lows, you really are making your blood sugar higher, but by being told to avoid the highs, even though you kind of didn't really know what you were doing a whole lot, you still had an A one C in the sevens, which is not bad. You know what I mean? So there's something about that. That was, I think that makes sense. Like when I I'll say on here, like, you know, the saying that most people get is it's better to be high than low. But what I say is, I'd rather stop a lower falling blood sugar than fight with a high one. And I think that, just that, that idea. I haven't said this on the podcast in a long time. But that's my mantra around diabetes, I'd rather stop a low or falling blood sugar, then fight with a high one, if you just come from that perspective, every day. It's an A one C in the sixes. It's just a perspective, it's a perspective thing. So I think it's important about how people talk to you and what they choose to make you aware of. And moreover, maybe it's not good to make people afraid of things, wouldn't it be better just to give them a working knowledge of it? And and then some tools to, to access them? That's how I feel.

Sasha 1:18:26
Yeah, I agree with that. And I think, I think in that sense, looping is is really great, or any kind of algorithm that you can use, because not only is going to is it going to prevent your lows and prevent you from you know, having to stuff your face all the time. But it's also going to start doing the work for you, when you when it sees you going high. So you don't have to wait as long to to act and hopefully the high is not as high later on.

Scott Benner 1:18:59
And I think as the years go on, and we have more time with it, the company should make the stopping of the high blood sugars with the algorithm more aggressive. Because it does need to be pretty aggressive. You can't just you know, you can't do you can't do a slight Basal increase when you know, when you're suddenly 125 Diagonal up because you missed on your meal Bolus by 20 carbs. Like that's not gonna, I mean, it might keep you under 200 But it's not gonna. It's not gonna just bring your right back again. So as that gets and loop those that are using what version of loop are using

Sasha 1:19:36
I'm not using the automatic small boluses okay,

Scott Benner 1:19:39
why? Alright, so you're you're just adjusting Basal for you. Yeah, it is. Arden's is the auto Bolus one. It's really cool. It's just like you can mess up in 10 minutes later, you get a diagonal up arrow and the things like more here I'll give you more. It's it's still could be more aggressive. But It's, it's, uh, it's amazing, it's a, it's a window into what I think retail, retail available systems are going to be, you know, in the coming years, I'm just super excited to for everybody's to be on the market and for people to learn how to use them. Because I think for most people, they're going to be incredible improvements. So, you know, now if you've got a five, five, a one C, you might not want that. But if you're a person walk around with an eight and a half and slapping an algorithm pump on, you could bring you to a mid six, or even i Six, it's a big improvement for you. Out of nowhere, you know,

Sasha 1:20:36
honestly, if even if you have a low A one C, it's, it's still going to be an improvement, maybe not in a numbers, but the mental load.

Scott Benner 1:20:48
I agree with you. Like there may be people who are willing to say, look, I have a five, five, but I'm going to switch to this algorithm and not have to worry about this as much and have a six, three, and just be like, hey, whatever this is trading a little bit here. I also think, and I'm excited to get Omnipod, five for Arden so I can really find out. But I also think there's going to be ways to do I want to say manipulate, I think there's going to be ways to use the insulin within the algorithm that will lead to the lower a one sees even lower than what the algorithm is shooting for through the F like through the FDA guidelines. I'm not certain, but I'm excited to try it. So I think it's possible because you hear people manipulate control IQ, right? With tandem and and get better outcomes than I think what the algorithms written for so there's got to be a way I'm, I can't wait. And and especially as Arden's leaving for college, I love loop, but Arden's not gonna build a app on her laptop. I don't think you know what I mean? Like, I'm trying to imagine her away at university. And she, you know, like, hey, my app needs to be rebuilt. I'll do it. Like, I'm not certain. That's her vibe.

Sasha 1:22:05
It's a big commitment. Yeah. And I think if you're not if you're not involved from the get go, it's kind of hard to just forced into it later.

Scott Benner 1:22:14
Yeah. I listen, I barely understand it. And there are people who helped me when I like, help me please. Like and that's just, you know, I get it. I know those people because the podcast or I don't think I'd, I mean, honestly, you heard me say enough. After three years of French that's not even correct. Like, the one thing I think I know isn't even right. So he imagined me like learning the loop out like stuff wouldn't go well. This is the thing right here. Talking about killing spiders. And whether or not you can kick kangaroos asked like stuff like that. It's more my speed. So isn't it weird now that you've talked to me in person that I end up that I understand diabetes in the way I do? Right? Yeah, makes sense? No, does it just feel like you just met like a homeless person who like understands rocket science? You're like, Wait, I don't understand, like, how did you end up in this situation? If you know how to get a rocket into space? Like there's this one thing I'm really good at and everything else. I'm just very average, I guess.

Sasha 1:23:16
I think you're very good at making parallels. With your random everyday examples that happened to you.

Scott Benner 1:23:26
It really is my only skill. Please don't tell people it makes me seem very basic. Which

Sasha 1:23:31
I No, no, I didn't. I didn't say that was your skill. But I did say it was a skill,

Scott Benner 1:23:35
it might be my skill. It might be my only skill that I hear something. And that I have so much trouble understanding it that I just turn it into a pictogram in my head. And then I can in a fun way, describe it to you in a way where you can remember it. Like it works in this scenario. But like, imagine if you and I were dating, and like something came up that I didn't understand that I started telling some long s3 to get to the point you'd be like, Oh my god, I gotta get rid of the sky. Don't you think that you think my wife downstairs is like right now? It's gonna come explain something to me. It's gonna take way more words than you. Do you know that? I don't think of you as the age you are because of your accent.

Sasha 1:24:24
Really? Yeah. Sound old.

Scott Benner 1:24:27
It's just older. It's there's something about the British and or Australian vibe. That makes you feel like you're in your 30s you own your home and you've got stuff together.

Sasha 1:24:37
Oh, man, I wish

Scott Benner 1:24:42
it could just be me. But that's how it feels to me. Like I have to I've had to remind myself that you're 25 a number of times while you're talking.

Sasha 1:24:53
That's okay. That makes me feel better actually.

Scott Benner 1:24:55
Does it really? Yeah. Why do you think

Sasha 1:24:59
it's so As a compliment, if you sound more mature than you are, right,

Scott Benner 1:25:04
you seem together to me. But I don't know if you're not going to get off this podcast and like, do a line of coke and then drink a fifth of whiskey. I'm like, I don't know who you really are, don't me like, but in this conversation, you plus your Australian like, I feel like you're gonna go outside with a bat and just like Murad or something. That's probably not really what Australia is like, right?

Sasha 1:25:25
No, not really. I mean, if you live out in the bush, maybe

Scott Benner 1:25:31
I have no perspective. I almost made it to Australia one time. There's a group of type ones that wanted to bring me down there to give a talk. And we just couldn't pull the finances together because of the long trip and everything and the expense. But I was excited to try it. But I don't think it's ever gonna happen because I'm old. And now everybody does everything over zoom anyway. You know, so

Sasha 1:25:54
Oh, I mean, Coronavirus ever has an end, I reckon you'd be able to pull it off. I think honestly, there's a lot of people. As you said, there's a lot of Australians listening to the podcast, I think, I think it would be really useful.

Scott Benner 1:26:10
If I had, I'm gonna end with this session. Because I have to let you go. Because it's 1222 where you are. And I assume you have to get up in the morning. If I had like a big pile of money, and I didn't know what to do it like if somebody came along and was like, Scott, we think you're doing a great job with the podcast, here's $2 million to do whatever you want to help people with type one. I do you think that part of what I would do would be to travel to like some places to just talk. I don't want to talk to doctors and people who talk to people about diabetes, I'd love to explain to them, like the what I found works, talking to people. And there's some places that have supported the podcast. So greatly like I would love to visit. Australia is definitely one of them. The United Kingdom is really supportive of the podcast, like I'd love to go there. It's got a very interesting following in South Africa. The show, which is always really interesting to me, and then I just would love to just bop around the United States and, you know, do a talk and go and see if we couldn't help some people and get people talking about diabetes in a different way and get doctors thinking about stuff. Beyond just what's easy in the moment and lumping everybody together into one pile and least common denominator. You know, teaching I'd love to talk about that a little bit, but I'm just gonna keep doing it here. Because like you said Coronavirus and money, etc. But I'm really thrilled you found the show and that it's helped you at all, like you've really sound like your your life's on its way. It's cool. You feel good?

Sasha 1:27:45
Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:27:47
Good for you. Are you more hopeful about your life than you were five years ago?

Sasha 1:27:54
With diabetes, diabetes? Yeah. Yeah, I think I think as you said, as, as those algorithms keep getting better and better. I'm just, you know, hoping that one day I'll find the perfect one that suits my lifestyle.

Scott Benner 1:28:14
Keep looking, because, um, yeah, seriously, like, don't get don't get complacent. I think there's a fine line between not being complacent and not switching just to switch. You know what I mean? Like, you don't just like just don't get a new pump. Like because a new like, you know, some people are like, oh, a new phone, and they just get it. Like, you know, but don't stop looking. And I think really believe that this stuff's going to get better and better as time goes on. And I hope the companies listening are it would be nice if they did the same thing. If they didn't just say, well, this is good. We've improved things for people good enough. Like if they really just pushed forward to see what what they could do and be brave about it. You know, there's, there's people out there who already know how to do this stuff. Like, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Go find them. And bring it bring this stuff to the masses. That'd be really cool. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, I really appreciate you doing this. You were terrific. I was silly. And I appreciate you putting up with me. So thank

Unknown Speaker 1:29:20
you. Well, thank you for having me.

Scott Benner 1:29:24
Oh, I'm sorry. I feel like I want to apologize to you. I don't know what that means. I guess we'll find out when I listen back and edit it later. I'll be like, Oh, I did. I did. Oh, that girl apology. I don't know. No, no, no. Are you sure? Okay, good. Yeah. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Kaipa pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. You spell that GVO ke GL you see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. Fun fact, this show was also almost called rampaging kangaroo. There's a lot of quality opportunities here to name the podcast. Hey, I'd like to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and remind you to go to contour next one.com forward slash juicebox