#1075 Kasey at the Bat

Kasey has LADA diabetes and an interesting job.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1075 of the Juicebox Podcast

Okay, so Casey has been living with LADA for a couple of years. She's recently switched from MDI to Omni pod five. We talked about gut health, and that she may have gastroparesis. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. Would you like to save 40% off of sheets, towels and other comfortable things, go to cozy earth.com and use the offer code juice box at checkout. When you make your first purchase of ag one at drink, ag one.com/juice box you'll get five free travel packs, and a year supply of vitamin D. And don't forget to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. This one is not going to have any ads. But there will be at the very end of the recording information about how you can get started with better help if you're looking for online therapy. Last thing before we get going, if you're an apple podcast user, there has been a recent update to the operating system that may have changed your downloads and is stopping you from getting the podcast, go to the show in Apple podcasts. The settings you get to by touching the three little dots in the top right corner. Then you choose Settings. Go to downloads, touch automatic download and choose all new episodes. Hi,

Kasey 2:06
my name is Casey and I live in the Midwest. And I work as a content creator for a healthcare system. And I've been living with Lata for about a year and a half, almost two years now.

Scott Benner 2:25
No kidding. Almost two years. Yeah,

Kasey 2:27
almost two years, two years in August. Casey,

Scott Benner 2:31
I'm sorry to do this to you immediately. But I have to TechStars in a better blood sugar very quickly. That's fine. That's a little lower than I'm comfortable with the thing. Go for it. Second. She hasn't eaten anything recently. She was not particularly high before. I guess for context, since we're talking about her blood sugar's 50. Looks like the algorithm stopped it. And now we get to give people a little back room. I am going to check her location. Alright, so she's in class. That right? Does anybody else talk their kid with like, where's my iPhone and stuff like that? I do.

Kasey 3:21
My parents wish they could. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:22
Okay, so I see where she is. So I am now I put she's in class

just send her a text and be cool. Because like I said, it looks like the algorithm looks like loops. All this coming about. No kidding. It looks like glue saw this coming an hour ago. And has been cutting her basil for almost an hour and 15 minutes. And she still got it stopped. Looks like it's stopped here. Like I'm looking at the Dexcom graph inferring from a don't think she's gonna get any lower. But I'm gonna get another reading in a minute. And now I'm walking the line between hassling her and making sure she's okay. So send a little text. I'm sure she's already done something about it. We had a conversation she and I this weekend where I said, Hey, if I have to text you about your blood sugar, I said, you don't answer and they don't answer again, like send a third text. Could you not respond? Stop?

Kasey 4:32
Just let me know you got it. Yeah. And she's like, well,

Scott Benner 4:34
I'm taking care of it and you're texting. And I was like, Well, I don't know about that part of it because I'm here. And I was like, please try to put yourself in my position. To which she said you should please try to put yourself in my position. And I said, Well, I think I have and then I that was a rabbit hole. I couldn't get out. Because she's like, Oh, you think you know what it's like to have diabetes. I'm like, No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying I'm saying I'm trying to I think I understand But how it must feel to have your father checking on you like that. And I said, so I do understand, but you have to understand. And she had a fought me for a minute. I said, Listen, try to imagine there's a thing in the world that you love. And you're in charge of it not dying. And she's like, A ha, okay, her blood sugar just jumped up by 10 points. So I think she's gotten Yeah. And she goes, okay. And I said, Now, not only are you in charge of it, but you're the only one aware that it's happening. And she goes, Well, I'm aware. And I'm like, unless you're already unconscious. And she goes, what I said, I imagine if all I had to do was call your roommate. And it would stop a, like a major medical problem from happening. And she's like, Yeah, and I said, and I didn't do that. And then you died. What would I do? And she paused and she was that I just don't like you bugging me.

Kasey 5:57
Was like, yeah, okay, good. Can't give it to you. Exactly,

Scott Benner 6:01
exactly, exactly. All she had to do was go how you make a good point, but she wouldn't give it to me. So all right, I'm sorry, you live in the Midwest. Lot of for two years. So how did you learn that you have lost

Kasey 6:14
a little dramatically, I will say, Oh, I had been misdiagnosed as type two. Back in 2018. And, or that one's the one that was kind of dramatic. I went to the hospital for a adenoma growing out of my liver that started to bleed. Oh, my God. And I had no idea. But it's a benign liver tumor of that lots of people get. But most of the time, they don't have symptoms. But mine burst randomly while I was out to dinner with my brother in law. So he took me to the hospital because I was like, I can't breathe nauseous, and they were like you're bleeding from your liver. And, and then they said, We're going to transfer you to another hospital that we would prefer that handles all of our complicated cases, cases. So while I was there, and they stopped the bleeding, but I had all this, like internal bleeding that had to resolve itself. So I was in the hospital like a week, and they were checking my blood sugar's the whole time. And they were always slightly over 100. And this was when I wasn't eating at all. Because after something like that, like I was not not hungry, not eating I just on lots of pain meds and stuff. So they were like you would you're discharged, you should see your primary care physician about your blood sugar numbers. So I said, okay, and I go see her like a month after I get out of the hospital to check them. And she checks my a one see, I think two and that's it. It was 10. So she was like, okay, like you're a type two diabetic. So I was treated as a type two diabetic for three years. Taking Metformin twice a day. And for a while, that worked. I didn't have high blood sugars. But then somewhere around the end, like two and a half years in or so. I had a surgery and started taking steroids after it for the recovery. Okay. And it was right after that. I know that's when I kind of took a break taking my blood sugar's because my agency had been like 5.56 While I was being treated for type two, so I was like, Okay, this is all going great. Things are good. So I stopped taking I took fingerpicking I just kind of did what I normally do. Yeah. And then I had surgery and then I was taking steroids. I was like, oh, I should probably check my blood sugar's more now that I'm on steroids. And I didn't start right away. But towards the end of it, I started checking in and I was like, Oh, these are high numbers I'm seeing higher than I'm used to seeing but I was like maybe it's just the steroids. So I kind of waited i i stopped taking them like after three weeks. And then I kept checking and the numbers were still like higher than I remember them ever been. So I reached out to my I think also right around then I I started losing weight. And then I lost like 20 pounds in a month. And at first I was like happy I was losing weight because I was like Whoo. I could stand to lose some weight. But then after the The quickness with which it was dropping was alarming. Yeah. Yeah. Unusual. I don't lose weight like that. So I was like, Okay, I better reach out to my doctors to be like, hey, my blood sugars are have been high than higher than usual. And so I did. And they were like, oh, make a make a food journal. Let's see what you're eating. So I made a food journal. And meanwhile, I had some other doctors that I was sharing this info with, like, in appointments, and I was telling them what my blood sugar numbers were like, 250, sometimes 300. And they were like, you should see an endocrinologist. They were like, That's too high. Yeah. So in the meantime, I made an appointment with an endocrinologist while I was talking to my primary care office, about my numbers, and they were like, you know, send this Take, take records for a few days, like, the process felt long. And I was like, let me just make this endocrinology appointment. In the meantime, while you

Scott Benner 11:05
are all talking, I'm gonna go make sure I'm not gonna die if you don't mind. Yeah.

Kasey 11:10
And the weight loss just, I don't remember. I think I felt rundown at the time. And, and so I got diagnosed after an ER visit, but I had seen the endocrinologist, like the week before. And she said, and they tested my a one C. And she was like, it's 10. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, yeah,

Scott Benner 11:39
because when I stopped paying attention to this, it was five and a half.

Kasey 11:44
I was like, I was like, 645 5.5 the last time and yeah, it's been like a year, since I really paid but I was like that there's no way and she was like, well, there's a possible way if you don't have type do. So she's like, we're gonna do the tests. And they did the test. But she's like, it takes like two weeks to come back. Okay. And she's like, but in the meantime, we're gonna put you on long acting, so she gave me like, 10 units of long acting to start taking every day.

Scott Benner 12:14
Wow. Did you have? I guess you found your meter too? Yeah, I'm gonna start doing that again. How much impact did just that 10 years of long acting have on your on your blood sugar? Not

Kasey 12:27
a lot. Okay. Oh, it was like not a lie. And so I was like, oh, so I'm giving myself this. And it's not. My sugars are still pretty high. And then it was like, maybe four or five days later. I like I had dinner. It was like fried chicken and fries. I started it was not long, and maybe an hour, two hours after I just, I felt like I couldn't collect my thoughts properly. And like I was really out of it. And I was having trouble breathing. And so I took my blood sugar and it was 450. Maybe you think and I was like,

Scott Benner 13:11
is that DKA? Or is it just how you felt when your blood sugar got very high?

Kasey 13:15
I think it was just how I felt when it got high because I went to the hospital that night. And they did not say I was in DKA. Hmm.

Scott Benner 13:24
I don't discount that at all just the altered feelings from very high or very low blood sugars or they can be terrible. So yeah, that's interesting. But that did get you to the hospital. I'm sorry.

Kasey 13:36
Good. Oh, yeah. I seen it. When I saw four, four. I was like, oh, no, no, no. Well, actually, first, I called my sister and I said, because her husband's dad is a diabetic and I was like, I don't know if this is too high. Or if this is okay. Like, should I just stay here she go. And then she contacted her father in law. And she was like, he said, You need to go to the hospital now. And so I was like, okay, okay, I'll go to the hospital. You know, they monitored me, they gave me fluids. i They didn't even give me insulin. I told them about how I was being like investigated for not type two. And they gave me like IV fluids and stuff. And it started it came down slowly. So at some point, I got to 300 and they were like, Okay, we're gonna release you. Contact your Endo, when you get home and let her know what happened. How long does it take you to get that endo appointment? That Well, the first one didn't. I mean only took me maybe a month. The first one and then after? Well, they didn't tell me to go they did contact her. So I literally reached out on my chart. And I was like, Hey, I just went to the ER I say my blood sugar was this and then she was like were started she was like okay, we're not going to wait for your results to come in. I'm starting you on fast acting and the next day she had a script in for fast acting And it was telling me when

Scott Benner 15:01
the bloodwork comes back, you have type one diabetes. Yeah.

Kasey 15:06
Or a lot of the when the bloodwork came back, my glutamic acid, GA D 65. Was it five? Yeah. Was 9900 Yeah. So you and I remember that high in a blood test?

Scott Benner 15:25
I'm sure that I'm sure that's not right. Well, it just I mean, a lot of so much about the, the onset and how slow it is, which is why you could get away with him treating like a type two for so long in the beginning. And you didn't end up in the hospital sooner, but obviously something pushed you a little farther. And then there you were. So yeah,

Kasey 15:45
I'm guessing it was the steroids. Yeah, that kind of pushed pushed into it. But obviously, yes, I had problems and I still had. And I probably still, I don't know if that was my honeymoon. Like those three years that I was like being treated like type two, and it was seemingly okay. My guess

Scott Benner 16:03
Yeah. And then the the liver growth is, and then it bursts, right? So you're you go through like a pretty major trauma that your body has to help with infection. Like I can see that being like how that kind of gets shoved the rest of the way. Do you go to? I mean, they give you insulin, but are you injecting it? Do they talk about a pump? Do you have this weird world where you feel like you're type two? So all this seems really strange?

Kasey 16:31
Ah, no, I mean, I think I accepted it pretty quickly, because I had always been surprised by my type two diagnosis, in a way. I felt like cuz I knew people, other people who were type two. And, and I also since I work in a health care setting, I interview people who have type two, sometimes for stories, and I just, I see myself as like active and I'm not thin, I'm definitely overweight, but like muscle, lots of muscle. Like, I'm like you in that when you said, lots of people can't guess your way or think you're one way and you're actually heavier. That was me like every time I went to the amusement park, I would play that game where they guess your weight because they were always 20 pounds under 30 pounds sometimes.

Scott Benner 17:21
Yes. He was wearing a stuffed animal today.

Kasey 17:24
Yeah, no one can ever guess my weight. So so

Scott Benner 17:28
funny. You said that, because I used to do that all the time. I was like, go ahead. Here's an easy one. I'll give you $1 And then I'll win something. Let's go. So

Kasey 17:35
I was just like, I don't feel how can I be type two already. I was just like, I'm, I'm 30. I think I was 37. When that happened? And I was like I'm I'm pretty active. It was hard to adjust to the type but I did have diabetes in my family. So it wasn't a surprise. There's

Scott Benner 17:55
type two, type two in your family.

Kasey 17:57
My grandpa had it. But I don't know if he was type one or type two. I always assumed he was type one. Okay, my mother tells me he was type two. But But I suspect

Scott Benner 18:11
about other autoimmune stuff. Do you see that with anybody? You're giggling? Yeah, one other stuff.

Kasey 18:16
Oh, yeah. My family. Oh, besides diabetes, vitiligo, sarcoidosis, lupus, cancer, lots of stuff going on? Yeah. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 18:28
So yeah, so then it's not as big of a shift. So you were actually more like, like, it's funny, you were talking about, like, I interview people. And you started talking, you said one thing, and I thought you were gonna go the other way. I thought you're gonna say like, I don't hear myself and their stories about type two diabetes. And like, because I always, I always find that like, when people are learning about their, their illnesses or their troubles through other people's stories, you, you can almost learn as much about yourself by going no, I don't have any of that. Like the thing that they're saying, I don't notice that like, then you can go watch. Probably not that then. But it's interesting, just basically, on the high level stuff that people think about about type two, you just didn't see you didn't have any, you didn't have any, like fitting in with any of that stuff. Maybe

Kasey 19:13
the symptoms, or the way they they would feel. I just thought and I know it's a misconception that like, I would have to be heavier for that to happen, right? Was my biggest thing, like, because I would see people that were like, twice my size who didn't have type two. And and that's where it'll be confusing. Like, how can they and they're twice my size, but they're pre diabetic? Yeah. And they don't even have type two. How can I have

Scott Benner 19:44
type two diabetes before her? Like, come on? Understand, I understand.

Kasey 19:48
When they said it's actually like this type this other type. I was like, Well, now that makes so much more sense because I felt like something was weird about me getting the type two diagnosis right? At the size and activity level, I was right, I could relate to feeling. Feeling bad a lot. I mean, it's been my entire life. I've struggled with health issues since I was a kid in and out of hospitals and

Scott Benner 20:16
what other what other things? What were you struggling with?

Kasey 20:20
Well growing. So growing up allergies, I had an asthma I had. And I didn't know I had the allergies till I got to college. And I went and got tested. But back then, when I was younger, I would every other month, I would get a sinus infection, and an ear infection and bronchitis. And so the hospital felt like a second home because I like I remember so many times waking up in the middle of the night, like I can't breathe. And my mom would take me to the hospital and we'd they give me a breathing treatment. And then they'd say you have a sinus infection, and then they'd give us antibiotics. And then you know, things would clear up and I would breathe better and I would be okay. But it would happen literally every other month

Scott Benner 21:04
about that. Okay, yeah, that doesn't sound surprising, either. To me, when people say allergies related to their autoimmune, like I have autoimmune. I also have allergies. I always think Well, yeah, well, that's an autoimmune response to something that's over and above what it should that's what an allergic reaction is. Right? And that may just make sense. And then the infections. Do you feel better now, since you have a diagnosis and you're using insulin?

Kasey 21:30
Yeah, I definitely feel better. And in that I'm not as tired. I would have lots of issues with sleepiness before I got diagnosed. Like I and you talked about it in an earlier podcast about how you were the person that was like always sleeping before your like anemia, stuff. And that that was me for a very long time. From College on until my diagnosis, like tired all the time looking for nap opportunities every day. Some of my jobs that I had, I would on my lunch break like scarfed down lunch, so that I could take a nap for the second half of lunch, and then go back to work because if I did not take a nap, I would risk falling asleep. Like while driving. I fell asleep twice while driving. Oh,

Scott Benner 22:30
I've done that too. That's not a thing. I usually tell people I fell asleep in the left lane on i 95 in Pennsylvania, and woke up in the right lane. Going into the going into the show. Isn't that so terrifying? Yeah, yeah, it was really and I was young, by the way when that happened. So like in my early 20s It just didn't make any sense. I'd only been awake for like an hour and a half in the morning. I should have been okay, you know? Yeah, it's funny when you look back and you can see, like all this has been happening for a while is sometimes you just kind of power through it. And sometimes this is you're so young, it's almost like you can make the best of it. I don't know if that's the right way to think of it or not. But

Kasey 23:11
yeah, I became a big red bull drinker. As the second time I fell asleep at almost drifted into the oncoming lane when I woke up and then corrected myself. So that scared me enough to be like, okay, one I need to see a doctor about how tired I am. And two, I'm going to start drinking Red Bull

Scott Benner 23:32
is gonna get jacked up on caffeine. It's gonna be fun. And I'm

Kasey 23:34
gonna make sure I nap after because it was like lunch always did it. It was eating that always just made me so tired.

Scott Benner 23:42
Whatever it was your blood sugar a little bit? Maybe. Maybe Oh, yeah,

Kasey 23:46
no. Yeah. Right. Like, I don't know how, how long ago could I have had blood sugar issues, but now I suspect Yeah, it had something to do with maybe high blood sugar after eating and then that's why I was getting so tired.

Scott Benner 24:02
That's really crazy. How do you manage today? What do you do? You're still injections or you have a pump.

Kasey 24:08
So I just got a pump. I got the Omnipod five, two months ago. Oh cool. How do you like it? So I love the convenience of it. I love that. I feel less stressed giving myself than when I had to do injections because I was doing like eight, eight or nine injections a day to try and keep mice like the bumping and nudging and a lot to keep myself in a good range and so just not having to do that many shots a day. Is has been so nice. And I do feel like I have more. Not calmness but like I stress less about sleeping and going low and but I will say I got my agency checked yesterday. And I am higher than when I was MDI. So

Scott Benner 25:05
you were so like you were so kind of like on top of it, like correcting small, probably you were probably correcting numbers that now the algorithm doesn't talk. Maybe. Did you hear my series about setting it up before you set it up? Oh, yeah. And that helped. But where are you having the problem? Is that after meals, or is that with correcting blood sugars? Or where does it get you?

Kasey 25:27
I think both. So it's like, I feel like I'm, I go high, and I just stay there while and and I ask it like, you know, do I need to another Bolus? And it'll say no, based on my correction factor, but then it'll still stay high. So I guess, I need to keep doing more work on adjusting my correction factor? Well, because it changes so often. Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:52
I was gonna say, is it with every meal? Or is it was certain foods?

Kasey 25:56
I feel like it's more certain times of the month? Ah, like, that's hormone? It's, yes, it's definitely there's definitely a lot of hormonal stuff involved. So like, certain days, like, I have a beautiful day, and everything's perfect. And I, because my hormones are working great. Or overloading or whatever they're doing, like, um, everything's and then. So it's figuring out when the fluctuations happen, where things change, and I need to up my settings. That's been a big challenge.

Scott Benner 26:28
Have you tried? Sorry, I know, we've known each other now for like, 25 minutes. But do you have a period tracker? Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, you're tracking your like, because if you track your blood sugars in your period tracker should only take you a month or two to figure out like, These are the days and then you're on an algorithm. So if they get around it somehow, like maybe you I don't know, maybe you pick a percentage 10 20%. And if you I don't know, say you're having 10 carbs, call it 12 carbs, you're having 20 carbs, call it 24 carbs and stuff like that, and see if you can't find a balance in there that works in that window when you have a greater need for insulin.

Kasey 27:09
could help. Yeah, yeah, no, it. It took a whole long time. I mean, I didn't when I was first diagnosed, like I had no, they gave me no info about how your hormones a woman's hormones can affect and so I for the first six months, I mean, I was like I didn't understand. So like why certain days, things worked in certain days, things didn't. And so now, I definitely understand it a lot more. But, Bill, I find myself having trouble figuring Okay, exactly seven days before my period, I need to change it to this exactly two days after it ends, I need to change it to this. Exactly. 10 days that like, that's trying. Yeah,

Scott Benner 27:53
and that's hard, because it can go back and forth. It's not always three days or two days, or, you know, five or whatever. And it's sometimes you just see it happening. You go okay, this here comes. And now I'll be because you were doing it with MDI, right, like, who's when you were seeing those rises before you were giving yourself more insulin? Yeah, yeah. But with the the algorithm makes it feel like, oh, it's supposed to take care of it?

Kasey 28:16
Yeah, so I feel like there are definitely times where I don't think I think less about it, or check it less. And then I check it. And then I'm like, Oh, I've been at 200 for like two hours. Now. I had assumed the algorithm would have brought me down by now. Or in that time. And so that's where I feel like the algorithm is not bringing me down very

Scott Benner 28:38
well. Yeah, none of them. The, I think the truth is, is that none of them are going to just do that. Because your needs your need changed. Like it's no different. No different if you have like an influx of of hormonal impact, then if you decided to eat 20 carbs and not announce it to the to the device. Like it's the same thing. Like there's there's a thing pushing your blood sugar up that it's completely unaware of. And so it's like, well, you know, because you said like, on other weeks, you have like real smooth going away from the hormones. So it's it says to itself, like, look, I'm doing the thing I did last week, and it worked fine. It's not working now. It doesn't just make the decision to give you more right away. And that's where you almost have to come in and like say, hey, look, there's more of a need here than you know about. There are some people with on the pod five to say, like we'll make a manual correction, like just do what you would have done like before, and then let it see that you need more insulin. There are people who say I throw it in a manual mode and push it down. I mean, the same thing happens with Arden with loop. She has those times the month, and she uses overrides and extra insulin and all kinds of stuff to get on top of it. So it's not it's not specific to one device. It's, it's been checked. Well yeah, it's specific to the idea that you told the machine that's pretty much still a pretty dumb machine. You told it. These are the numbers. And this is what you do when you see this many carbs. There's no like part of it that says, except on the third week of the month, yeah, when this happens, and that's, that's what you're fighting against.

Kasey 30:22
And I asked, I asked my doctors like, Oh, can I set like different profiles to figure out what different times of the month but they were like, oh, no, with Omni pod, like it's doing that for you. So you don't, but you do need to like go in and manually change your ratios. So that's,

Scott Benner 30:38
so you have to be careful, you have to be careful too. Because you there are settings and on the pod that you if you change them, you're changing them for the manual mode, that is not changing them for the auto mode. You know, because it's deciding like if, like, clear example, you set the pot up, and you told it like I need a unit an hour of basil, I need 24 Day unit an hour, and it goes okay, and then it puts it on and then it starts making decisions automatically, it might be giving you 1.2 An hour in basil or point seven like it might be doing something different. If you go back in and suddenly say You know what, I want to make my basil 1.5 an hour just trying to use big numbers and put it back in auto, it's still gonna say I think she needs point seven. But you have to be careful, because if you keep pushing those numbers up and suddenly swap it over into manual, you'll be using a lot more insulin if you turn them up. So yeah, be real clear about that go through the documentation. Clearly. Changing the settings doesn't change the algorithm, changing the settings changes the manual settings. Okay, so if you feel like you just in general need more, some people end up doing a reset. And being more aggressive upfront with how much they tell it it needs. does a pretty good episode about resetting in the podcast somewhere.

Kasey 31:57
Yeah, I may. I mean, I know I start I started when my insulin knees were the least amount. When the week I started and so but then the doctors also told me it changes like every three days, like the pod is learning learns what you need based on every three days. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:20
I think legally they avoid the word learning. But but it's making decisions based on the I think the pods that came just before it. The previous Yeah. So that's also like you could end up seeing at the end of a period, for example, like if you had a really heavy need, and it was keeping up with it, then all of a sudden, the need dropped off. But the last pod had that need you might even see a lower blood sugar in that scenario. So it is I mean, it would be nice if everyone's bodies just did the same thing every day, all the time. How can we make that happen? That'd be wonderful. But anyway, also, I wanted to say like you've only been using it for two months, too. Yeah, so you're still learning about it as well. But I would just me personally, if you were, if you were Arden and you had a high blood sugar, I'd say to make a manual correction. Like that, that's what I would do, I'd make I would say, Look, my blood sugar's 200, My correction ratio is bla bla bla, I'm going to put this insulin in. Hopefully the algorithm can stop it. If it can, I'll stop it with with food, but I'm not going to stare at a high blood sugar like this, and then it will see your total daily insulin go up, and that will make it more aggressive. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, that does. Nothing you hear that Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Tell me what you do for a living. Why do you you said you make content for for a medical institution?

Kasey 33:48
Yeah, so I work for a health care system, system of hospitals and health care facilities. And I am a video producer. So I do something very similar to what you do in that I interview lots of patients about their diagnoses and their journey, healthcare journey and create, turn those into videos that help help other people see how things work, where we are, and it's really fun to get to talk to people and you're hearing a lot of them talking about things that are, you know, not the most pleasant because they're talking about health stuff. And, you know, they've all had major health conditions. But I think because of all the stuff I've gone through, I can relate to a lot of the things that they talk about. And you know, when I come to them, or when they come to me, they're on the other side of a lot of it and so it's talking about how the positive place they are now versus where they started. So I'm So it's really fun to get to tell those stories and but I also have, my doctor says, I sound like her medical students. Like I do a story with someone, I don't like to I have that. So there's a little bit of Hi, my husband calls me a hypochondriac.

Scott Benner 35:19
Finger bends in the middle to hold on a second. I'm like,

Kasey 35:22
you're only a hypochondriac, if nothing's wrong with you, right? Yeah, exactly.

Scott Benner 35:25
If you're right, then you're just a genius. So

Kasey 35:29
like, I have a reason to be worried about lots of things. Do you actually see

Scott Benner 35:33
like, when they're talking? Do you think, Oh, I have that or just it just makes me nervous. There are

Kasey 35:39
times I wonder, do I have that? Like, when I remember doing some stories on pa D, peripheral artery disease, and some of the symptoms they were describing about their legs, and now I'm like, it's probably a blood sugar issue slash, slash, slash like my anemia. But I would have like, leg issues. And I was like, Could this be PID, but then I got tested and found out I was anemic. And so I was like, Oh, okay. The anemia is probably the reason for some of my leg symptoms, not pa D. But since I just did a story on pa D. I was like, Maybe I am pa D, you know, starts

Scott Benner 36:20
going in that direction. You're like, well, this is this could definitely be it. I could definitely have this thing that I don't even know what that stands for. Because late Yeah, that's crazy. By the way, if I sound confused, ever, your voice is very similar to my son's girlfriends, and it throws it throws me off once in a while. I'm like, everyone's gone. Like, that's not her. Just keep focused, Scott. Anyway, so you're almost like, kind of making content for like unique, your own ecosystem? Yeah, yeah. And so do you deliver to patients? Do you also interview doctors? Is that Yeah, like, is it hospital wide? Or is it do you go from like, department to department? How

Kasey 37:03
do you handle all that? Yeah, no, we, the content we make goes out on social media, it goes out to our employees, internal content. YouTube, web pages, for the health system. So it goes in a lot of places. So guys spend my time interviewing patients, doctors, anyone affiliated with the healthcare system about some type of story that is worth telling. Yeah. And so I say, I feel like, I'm the news team. I'm on the news team, for the healthcare system. And like, like, we're their personal news team covering all of the stories within the health system.

Scott Benner 37:46
That's exactly how it struck me. It's like your like your, your own social media ecosystem for for the system. And you get to, I mean, the value behind sharing stories with people like, Okay, we joke that you're like, I have thrombosis, but you might not, but other people can hear that and go, I'll be damned. I do have that. And yeah, and lead them to at least a checkup to find out if not, you probably end up it's a great way to reach people.

Kasey 38:12
That's the goal. Yeah. is for someone to listen to it and say, Oh, that sounds like me. Maybe I should get that checked out.

Scott Benner 38:20
Now, I can't, I mean, I can't tell you like, I don't know that I can completely quantify how bowled over I am by how impactful the podcast is for people. Like it's like it was a hope, but I just didn't realize there's something about this kind of medium and reaching people where they are they don't have to come to something or take a class or it's on their time or however you kind of like want to look at it. It's so it's just that valuable. It's the only word I can come up with. And I just I'm I'm thrilled that it's been if you've been doing this a long time for them.

Kasey 38:53
Yeah for four or five years now. Wow,

Scott Benner 38:57
that's really great. Are you like a sound snob or like when you hear me complain about noises you like That's right Scott. There should be no background noises whatsoever. Well,

Kasey 39:10
I understand the the struggle because even in our studio we have a door next door where it's like oh, if that door slams in the middle of our we have to tell people can you back it up and just say that one more time?

Scott Benner 39:25
If you don't leave it in like I do, I just do it again. Just you just said something about your mom just go right back to a please because my wife can't keep that dog from barking. So it's hilarious. I have another question about this. Where do they just go? Dammit. Oh, lawyers. Everything you make goes through lawyers. No, no. Wow, that's terrific. So you don't have to make content ship it off to a lawyer and then they come back and say it 23 seconds till 27 seconds.

Kasey 39:58
Oh, I have her heard that some people at at health institutions do you have to do that? And then yeah, then then the legals like no, this no that and no, we don't have to do that where I'm at. So I'm thankful. That's

Scott Benner 40:12
terrific. It's interesting to see, as time progresses, different entities get it, like they finally understand they're like, Okay, yeah, every word doesn't have to be so precise. If we make them so precise, no one wants to hear most of the people I work with, when I do stuff like that, they do get it. But back in the day, it was like, well record it and give it to us. So Mike, I'm not doing that. Like, if you want to come on and do an interview and come on and do an interview, but you don't get to have it before it goes up. Like, you know, you know, like, oh, we said this thing here. There was one time. It's been such a long time now. But gentleman came on to talk about a drug that was under development. And I put the episode I was terrific. By the way, it's a very popular episode, the drug is actually really helpful to people and everything. I'm trying not to be too specific. But I put the episode off, and like five or six hours later, I get this email. And then it's, uh, can you speak on the phone? I get on the phone. And the guys like, my lawyers are screaming at me about this thing I said, and I was like, Oh, okay. I'm like, Well, you know, well as what do we do? You know, and, and he's like, they're so afraid that the FDA and blah, blah, blah, but it was never a problem. But it was just, I swear to you, it was like a SWAT team of people who went to school to be lawyers descended on me. I'm like, first of all, he said it. Secondly, hear the difference between what he said and what you're saying right now. So, you know, like, maybe is everyone just trying to like, make a job for themselves? Like I couldn't tell exactly, you know, ended up being fine. But I was just wondering,

Kasey 41:53
we do check everything. We've got the doctors checking it marketing, checking it, but yeah, we don't have to send it to legal and we're very thankful for that. That's

Scott Benner 42:02
really wonderful. It's a very progressive idea, actually.

Kasey 42:05
Yeah, I mean, we, we we pump out a step up, like, I think last time, during the pandemic was 250 videos a year. Wow, on average we were making, so it's like, we're going way too fast for legal to

Scott Benner 42:19
everything, like it must be okay. Like lawyers were contracts. They're just like, it's probably fine. Actually, you know how that just made me laugh. I put up this post today on Facebook, I was feeling whimsical. And I was like, here, I'm going to admit something that we can all admit something. It'll be fun to like, share a secret. So I said, I said in 2013, I wrote a book about being a stay at home parent. And when people asked me how long it took to write the book, I always I tell them six months, which is mostly the truth. If you don't count the 60 days, it took me to learn how to type before I made the before I started writing. Anyway, so then, then it just it's a cascade of people like saying embarrassing things about themselves. And then one person salt tells a story about an attorney in their office, who kind of left somewhere on bad terms. I'm getting this a little right and a little wrong. But they went into contracts and put a bunch of dirty words into contracts that they used over and over again, knowing that no one would ever read them again, and then just tickled them to think that people's contracts would have like foul language. made me laugh. One woman said she kicked her husband in the face during a sexual act. That's a great story. If you're not on the Facebook group, you definitely should be aware, hilarious. Anyway, it's good times. But that just made me made me think that for some reason about the the lawyers and the contracts and everything. So I

Kasey 43:46
saw that and I was trying to think of a funny story that I had, but I couldn't think of an appropriate one.

Scott Benner 43:53
One person said, I cannot share this here. If it's not anonymous. Like I get it. I just think sometimes it's just helpful for people to just blow off some steam and be silly and stuff like that. So yeah. Plus the look at the humblebrag. I did. I was like, you know, I wrote a book. I found a way to be like, don't forget, I'm a published author. Fish that in there. Yeah, I wasn't really doing that. I was really just trying to give it context. Like how ridiculous is it? I was 40 years old, about 40 or 41 years old. I had made the agreement with the publisher. I'm like, Yeah, I'll write this book. And then I had to, I'd never learned how to type. So I had to get one of those typing teacher programs and like go through kids like steps of like, I learned that type of like a dinosaur in front of me being like, yeah, push the day and I'm like, trying. So anyway. Well, I listen to I don't know why I'm not being hired for things like this and other healthcare systems. Why am I not interviewing people in healthcare systems? You

Kasey 44:51
could if you wanted to get a job in a healthcare system where you I'm sure you could see I'm making podcasts videos, all kinds of cool content, why

Scott Benner 45:00
are they not tapping me? I, by the way, I've heard let me just not not you, Casey but other people. I've heard some of your content, and it's garbage. And you could you could easily do with the person who can direct a conversation. Yeah, oh my god, watch me be petty for a second. But in the for humor always for him. This thing comes up, it's not important what it is, it's a doctor and somebody they work with. And the person interviewing them. And the doctor comes on and says, The problem with this space I'm going to be very vague, is that the information is boring. And people can't absorb it because it's so boring. And then for about the next 10 minutes, the guy goes on to be so freakin boring. And never, and doesn't get to the point, right? Then says, I get I'll stay vague, then says and I figured out what the answer is. And I'm gonna give it to you without being boring. I was like, my god, man, you've already spent 10 minutes and I'm only late. Oh my god. Okay. See, I'm only watching now because I it's making me feel good about myself. I'm like, I am great at this, like, this is terrible. And so and then they go on to say something that I think so it was around diabetes, I think I might have said this 10 years ago. And the person the guy says, we've just concluded a long study that says for sure. And then says something that 10 years ago, I was like, this is definitely a real writer. And I was like, Oh my God, how long have you been working on this? And it was not exactly a deep thing. It was like one of those things that when he said it, I went yeah, da Yeah. And you poured the crap out of me while you were doing it, which just makes it hilarious. So now I'm watching it, and I'm laughing just because of the ridiculousness of it. Like he's like, um, you know, the you know what the problem is, everything's boring, then goes on to bore the tears. And I'm giggling and my wife's like, we're in bed. It's late at night. Like she's doing her word thing. And I'm watching this. And she's like, what's so funny, I was like, Oh, my God, I couldn't breathe. I was like, This is ridiculous. And I took the thing off, and I played it back for her. My wife's a much nicer person than I am. And she's just like, but he's so boring. And I was like, die, though. It's right. It's funny. Then she didn't. She didn't laugh. She's like, You're being mean to him. I'm like, he can't hear me. It's just you and me. It's not mean, if he doesn't know. It's mean, Casey, if later I tell it on the podcast. But anyway, I think I should be being hired by these hospitals. I talk to your people will do it. Again, I'm busy. I can't do it. But what what made you want to come on the podcast?

Kasey 47:56
I could hear a lot of stuff that people would say that sounded a lot like me. So I guess that was part of it. Like, oh, I can relate so much. But also, just like, the frustration around, I mean, I had so many missed diagnoses in my lifetime. And so I just, if I can help someone, like figure something out, or, or work through something at all, it's nice to feel like you're giving back after you have kind of come to the place where you need to be. And it took me a long time to get there. And with a lot of missteps, I mean, I was I was diagnosed with narcolepsy. Besides type two, didn't have that. No, didn't have that. And I think it was all again, blood sugar related. That was passing out all the time. And I would just go to sleep so quickly. And, and I would have these instances where my body would they call the cataplexy, where my body would like, I just couldn't control it. I couldn't hold myself up. I would spasm. And I think now maybe could have been low blood sugar.

Scott Benner 49:16
Oh, well, I'm looking at it. Yeah. Like it's kind of a collapsing of your body. Hmm, Mm

Kasey 49:22
hmm. And I would spend out like, I would get into a fight with my mom. I remember that would trigger it a bunch, like I would get I would be arguing or something. And then I would be like, I can't like I had to have to lie down and I couldn't, I would just have to lie there and I would my body would just like seize every like 30 seconds or something for maybe an hour or two and then I'd feel okay. And then I'd be able to like go to bed go to sleep and then the next day feel fine. Or like I'd be out with my, we'd be out shopping and as long day and My legs would feel like jello, and I would like I can't walk back. I literally need to hold on to something to walk. Yeah. And so that's what we were thinking was cataplexy. But now I wonder, was it low blood sugar

Scott Benner 50:16
sounds? I mean, just from the visuals I found online about it certainly seems like your body just like a marionette that somebody pulls the strings like loose on just kind of collapse. Yeah. Oh, that's crazy.

Kasey 50:28
And then when I finally started to figure it out apples, like I was with my and it happened. I was like, my legs are weak. I can't I like and I was like, go get me apple juice. And then he did and 20 minutes later, I was like, Oh, I feel great. I feel fine. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:42
Hey, in your late 30s Why the heck are you arguing with your mom? That's that's the that's the only thing. I'm like, That's my only follow up question. Like, what

Kasey 50:49
do you Oh, my mom's a lot. She's great. But yeah, lots of high expectations. I say.

Scott Benner 50:58
I was like, I was just like, I'm like, I'm like Casey's 37 arguing with her mom asked about that. That's what I want to know about. High expectations

Kasey 51:08
are and no, she's one of those people. Just like, you know, people would tell you to have cinnamon for your diabetes. Oh, kinda one of those. Oh, I'm sorry. So we get it? Yeah. So we get in arguments a lot, or we used to get in arguments a lot over health stuff. Especially so

Scott Benner 51:28
I pray for you today. And I bought okra. Great. Yeah.

Kasey 51:36
Did you take that supplement I sent you like, and so yeah, it just, yeah,

Scott Benner 51:41
no, I don't didn't unless Jesus is gonna come with a time machine. It's not going to help me. Appreciate your input, though. You make me think that we're just starting. Pretty soon, Jenny and I are going to start a mythbuster series about diabetes, where we're going to just tell like, we're going to talk about the funniest things that you hear about diabetes and kind of Oh, that's a good one, break them down and stuff like that. It's actually a list of listeners idea. Yeah, it was I was like, that's such a good idea that I walked away. I was like, Why did I not think of that? First? But I was like, I'm still on that. Is that okay? And they're like, Yeah, sure. I'm doing it. Okay. Do you have people in your family that are helping? Like you said, you're married? I heard you say that a couple of times. So I'm always interested in that, like you're diagnosed as an adult? Do you go back to a loved one and say, I need help with this? Or do you kind of turtle up and take care of it on your own? Is there somewhere in the middle? Yeah,

Kasey 52:37
I mean, I think I take a lot of it on myself in general, just because I don't know, I guess my husband likes to say that. I should have gone to med school that they like you, you know, you just want to be a doctor. And so I think I shouldered a lot of it myself, because I could figure it out and understand it and work on it myself. And I didn't necessarily expect him to do all that. But he did. I did have him learn how to give me shots. So like, sometimes he would do my insulin, if I wanted to do it, like, in the back, like on my butt or something or like the back of my arm, I would have him. So that was really great. He'll give me a shot if I don't want to do it, or it's a hard to reach place. And then he follows me on Dexcom although we need to figure there's some kind of Dexcom issue that he we're still working through, but he can generally see me on Dexcom but yeah, so I I don't have to ask him to do a lot. But he is a participant in it gets to hear me talk about it all the time.

Scott Benner 53:51
Again, is the guy all I heard was like he figured out how to get the back your pants down using the diabetes. Really, I heard. I was like, Oh, he's like, oh, like I can see your butt extra shirt. I'll learn about this. Why not?

Kasey 54:07
Just be disappointed when it's the arm ones that I asked. Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:11
He's come to run out of the room. He's like, Oh, finally is my time. This is great. And then you're like here right? My arm like wah wah. This is a waste. I can see your arm regular across the room. What the heck? That's nice, though. Like, I mean, so enough involvement that you that he has some comfort, and you have some comfort, but he's not. He's not a overseer. A is not a like a caregiver for you. I think that's I think that's reasonable. I think that sounds like a good mix. Honestly. Yeah,

Kasey 54:40
it's been working well for us.

Scott Benner 54:42
Did you have the this is how my glucagon works talk.

Kasey 54:45
Mm hmm. Yeah. And he saw me use it. I've used it once. Really? Once. Yeah. Which one did you have? You mean with a gun or bat? Beth? I don't know how to say it. Best gimme Yeah. G voc

Scott Benner 54:58
or is it best squirmy.

Kasey 54:59
That's okay. Yeah. Do you vote?

Scott Benner 55:02
I am. Okay. And you used to you were like, oh, it's happening. I'm using this. Yeah,

Kasey 55:07
there was one day I was MDI still, and like, my blood sugar was just it, it got to 40. And I had been eating I for 2030 minutes I had been I had eaten 2030 minutes before, like taking stuff. And I was just like, I'm so full. I can't physically put any more in my body, and it's not coming up. So I was like, Okay, I think this is the time. So I got my husband was lying. I mean, I was like, lying on the bed. And I was like, I feel so horrible, but it's not coming up. And I was like, I think I just need to do it. So I did it. And it did come up. But even then it still took like, 15 minutes to come up.

Scott Benner 55:51
Wow, you're really in a situation? Yeah, I

Kasey 55:54
don't even remember how I got there. Yeah, like, I can't. Like I didn't get that. But somehow it did. I mean, nighttime can always be tricky with me. Like, I feel like, if I'm gonna go low, it's at night. So do you

Scott Benner 56:07
and but you're not seeing or you're not seeing as much of that with the algorithm. Are you just less scared of it? Because you said earlier, we're less scared. But

Kasey 56:14
ya know, I'm not seeing as much or if I go low. I I can drink some like glucose juice and come out of it. Yeah, pretty quickly. So I haven't had like a stubborn low. Like I did that that time.

Scott Benner 56:30
Interesting. So let's listen. I'm glad you had it. It was a it was helpful for you. You've said a couple of things over the last hour, that make me feel like you actually listen to this podcast. So how did you find it?

Kasey 56:44
I have a so I used to work in TV news. And one of the anchors that I worked with has a daughter who has type one. And she had always posted about stuff. And when I got diagnosed, I reached out to her to kind of be like, Hey, I saw that because I didn't know a lot of people. But I like I saw that you have a daughter with type one. Like I just got diagnosed with LADA. If you have any suggestions or anything I should check out, let me know. And she was the one he told me check out the Juicebox Podcast. That's cool. And I didn't do it right away. I took me like six, it took me a good four months maybe. Because I think just when I was diagnosed, like there was so much, so much stuff that changed all overnight. That like I couldn't handle like listening it. I needed to just like find a balance with what I'd been told so far and get a handle on that before. I was like ready to like, but Oh, I'm so glad I did. Because there were so many things I was doing wrong. Oh my goodness, and all these things that it happened that I didn't understand the episodes on the factors that affect your blood sugar, like just figuring out a lot of those made such a big difference. And so it was just life changing to because this wasn't stuff we were talking about in the doctor's office, or, and so I feel like I Yeah, got a lot better handle on how to manage it. From listening to the podcast, for sure. But it took me some time to get there. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 58:36
think that makes sense. Honestly, like, I mean, I can't imagine like just put into another situation like you know, you, you just found out you have something it doesn't go away. And then someone you're like you reach out to somebody like Do you have any advice or like listen to a podcast? Like Wait, what? Like, no, I'm not doing that. added to my list. List of things. It's time for my true crime podcast, which i By the way, really want to listen to. And you know, it's interesting because I can get caught. I try very hard not to get caught on one side of this conversation. Because it happens to me sometimes, like I'm the one who makes it. I know what it can do for people. I've seen the feedback come for years and everything. And you see somebody who's like, I don't have time to steal podcast and there's like the part of me that makes it as like, come on, like, like, what am I going to do? Like I got you all the way to the water. I can't get you to drink it like you know, like it's because it's hard to find people get them to believe like, Okay, this podcast might be worth listening to, then to listen long enough like What if you fall in one of the episodes where I'm an S you don't know. You know, they

Kasey 59:40
they like to be in a receptive mode. Right

Scott Benner 59:43
right. Yeah, you just have to be ready for but it's um, and that makes complete sense to me. On my side of it. There's I can sometimes in my own head be like just listen to it. You know, like I never say that out loud. But yeah, you know, when somebody comes to me online there was like, I don't have like the Ask a question about like, Hey, I'm super low every day and I'm like, Hey, here's 10 episodes. It's right in the middle of the Pro Tip series that'll help you think I don't have time for that. And I'm like, yeah, like, I come to your house, like, you know, you want me to do it? Like, I don't know, like, I already wrote it down. It's right there, you know. But I take the point. And I'm, I'm amazed that that many people get over that hump and actually do it. But I guess it's probably eventually because someone gave you the recommendation, right? Like, you think like, I asked them and they said this, they would have just said it for no reason. Well,

Kasey 1:00:34
I feel like it was because I wasn't seeing good enough results myself. Like, I was like, Okay, I've been at this for this long, and my numbers are still not what I want. And I'm still having trouble. And I'm, and so I was like, Okay, I've taken in all the stuff the doctor said, and I've been putting it to use and it's only working so well. So I was like, now I'm ready to like hear some more stuff to try and incorporate and get things lower.

Scott Benner 1:01:03
That makes sense. Like you want to level up. Yeah, yeah, you're like, Well, let me see if I can figure out a little more. That's where you thought it at all, like, put off by the fact that I'm not that I don't have diabetes? No,

Kasey 1:01:15
no, because once I you know, heard your background and it's obvious how knowledgeable you are. So I was okay, that you're a quote unquote layman. From a having diabetes perspective, but, um, ya know, I, as I read and see so many of the parents, you know, having to figure out so many things for their children. And so, yeah, yeah, so you that's a

Scott Benner 1:01:48
lot you have an anemia diagnosis, too. Is that part of is that a food absorption thing? Or do you think that's a bleeding thing? Do you know where that came from? No,

Kasey 1:02:01
I don't know. And so I'm, I'm thinking, here's what I'm doing. I'm thinking the gastroparesis that I'm hearing a lot of episodes mentioned that that might be me, because I've definitely had trouble with, especially during lows. Like if I've eaten and I have a low say an hour later, like trying to put more into me really hard. And oftentimes, I will grow up reflexively, like I'm too full. And so that was always a bit of a struggle managing those was like, trying to put food into me when I'm already full or really full, and I just can't and then I throw it up because my stomach like No, no more. And then I would get like X rays. And they would be like, don't eat three hours before and I wouldn't make we see food in your stomach. Did you eat and I was like, No, I haven't eaten for three hours. Like you said, like, okay, next time, don't eat for four hours and then I don't eat for four hours and like we see food in your stomach. Like I don't know what to do. You told me not to eat for? I didn't do so. I probably need to see a GI.

Scott Benner 1:03:07
Before you go take that step. Did you listen to the episode about Arden's like digestion? That's called Art. Yeah, just try trust me just try a digestive enzyme at every meal for a week and a half. And you'll see if if you don't, you might see things move quick, through you more quickly, more efficiently, and your insulin work more the way you expect it to. And if that's the case, then you're like, you know, that's the other thing that like it's the one thing we don't talk a lot about, like people are like, Oh, your pancreas all that's job is insulin, it doesn't do that anymore. Your pancreas helps with your digestion too. And if it's and for a lot, I think a lot of people with autoimmune diabetes, they're seeing slow or poor digestion, and they can get in that space where they're like, oh, it's gastroparesis, but in the more you know, in the diabetic, you know, parlance of the word, and so yeah, just it's such an easy way to try just to see if that if that helps you so yeah,

Kasey 1:04:10
and I did get I got her digestive enzymes.

Scott Benner 1:04:12
Oh my god. I've been taking them. Well,

Kasey 1:04:16
I I know it's so hard. I my iron pills. All the pills is so hard. So I do sometimes remember it's like remembering and doing it consistently make

Scott Benner 1:04:29
it your mother yell at you about this. I think Can you imagine? I'm exactly her now like take those pills. I got you from the health food store.

Kasey 1:04:39
Yes. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yes, he she does send me supplements.

Scott Benner 1:04:48
This is I'll tell you that's what made it so hard to talk about a little bit because you do feel like like even the lady who helped me at the health food store the first time I was like I don't think this lady shaved her underarms in 10 years. And she smells like petroleum oil. And like, what is it 1976 in here, like, what am I doing? But man, she knew what she was talking about, you know? So what the hell? Yeah. Yeah, don't take them, for God's sakes, please.

Kasey 1:05:16
And somewhere along the way. So I was also diagnosed with lupus in my early 20s, and when that happened, I went to see a holistic doctor who it felt like was not a quack kind of doctor. And so one of the things like she said, you know, you have autoimmune can, you have this autoimmune diagnosis. And the big thing that she that I did do that she said, was like, stop drinking milk. Like she's like milk. A lot for a lot of people every time you drink milk, like a cell in your gut bleeds. Um, I were just lactose intolerances is very high among especially minorities. Okay, so I did stop drinking milk around that time. And then she also was like, here are I mean, she gave me like seven supplements. You take a cookie 10, you need to be taking, like, it was a bunch of things. And so, and I did find that I felt I felt better when I would do that. But it was also like, a lot to keep up with. And so eventually, I kind of, yeah, but every once in a while, I go back.

Scott Benner 1:06:35
And sometimes it's hard when somebody's you're in an office, and somebody's like, you should try this. We sell them like, Oh, all right. I see. All right, I got you.

Kasey 1:06:43
I take too much already. It's hard to keep up with all the things I need to do. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:06:48
I mean, I can just tell you from a very basic perspective, Arden had trouble with digestion or stomach hurt. And you know, her insulin was working all kinds of weird ways. And you know, you just like, This doesn't seem right. And it kind of came out of nowhere. And it felt like it came out of nowhere, but then you start thinking about it, you're like, had Her stomach's always hurt, like, like, and not always, but since the diabetes, but she's been so young since she was diagnosed, like, how would we know the difference? And it's just, it's just such a simple little, like screw to turn, just to see, you know, and you don't have to do it for long enough to see if you're getting like, value from it either. So as long as you're pooping, and you're taking that like, because you don't want to be backed up. But if you've taken those things, and it's coming out the other side the way you expect. You'll know if it's helping you in pretty short order. All right, she's I can't believe this. I don't I don't. I don't. It's late in the afternoon. I don't want to be somebody's parent.

Kasey 1:07:47
Oh, the other fun thing that I haven't mentioned yet is that my my best friend growing up also got diagnosed with a lot of real

Scott Benner 1:07:55
like, as an adult. Yeah, you guys live there a power line or something that was going on there. I was like,

Kasey 1:08:01
I want to reach out to everyone from high school. I'd be like, were you diagnosed with water?

Scott Benner 1:08:06
Hey, did you ever well water too?

Kasey 1:08:09
Because I like oh my god, like we we've been best friends since like sixth grade. And she was diagnosed a few years before me. But she hers is like, I don't know less severe. Like she only takes long acting. She doesn't need short acting yet. Yet, yet. Yeah. And when when I was dying, it was like, Oh, you need all the things so, but like she gave me my insulin shots at my wedding. So it's nice that I have someone close to who knows the struggle to Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:08:43
no, that must be lovely. Actually. Do you talk a lot about it?

Kasey 1:08:48
Not a lot. Because, you know, we're, we're in our 40s and we're busy and so we only connect every you know, once a month maybe but when we do we do usually you know ask girl how's it going with with the diabetes and or I'll tell her about what my new thing is that I'm doing like Omni pod next time I chat with her and yeah, yeah. And then I also found out the guy I had a crush on in high school. Also had type one and I had no idea.

Scott Benner 1:09:20
Maybe you're the problem. You might be patient zero you're doing this to people kissing. Giving people diabetes. I

Kasey 1:09:34
posted about it on Facebook when I got it. And then he reached out and says and I was like I had no idea you had diabetes? I don't know you. Yeah, I had a crush on him for years in high school. But

Scott Benner 1:09:48
he knew it but you guys didn't date. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Hold on. Just for fun. Why not?

Kasey 1:09:55
Oh, well, I mean, I had a boyfriend at one point in In high school, and then I was too shy to say anything and I don't think he liked me. So oh, we were just Facebook friends now that we're all alike. Because we went to the same high school. We were both on the track team together. And that's how I formed a crush, but I was never going to tell anyone I had a crush on that. I crushed on it. But

Scott Benner 1:10:19
But you believe he knew? Oh, no, no, no. Oh, no. Oh, he doesn't know. Oh, this fantastic. Oh, no, no, no, I love this. I don't know. I don't know why it's so good to me for so I've

Kasey 1:10:29
never told him that. Way back when I have. But he reached out when he saw my posts to be like, Oh, I've been living with type ones since I was little. Tell them and I was like, I had no idea.

Scott Benner 1:10:41
You were telling me you're married. And you're like, you're Oh, yeah. reaches out to say, oh my god, I have type one to reserve a little bit of you're like, Oh, my God, the guy from track. He still knows me.

Kasey 1:10:55
Oh, well. No. And it was this is something. So I grew up always thinking about him. That he's had like, there was a profound sadness, literally. Yeah, that he had. And I didn't know where it came from. But I wonder now that he said, Oh, I I've had type one since I was a kid. I wonder if that was part of it.

Scott Benner 1:11:21
Casey, were you trying to save that boy? Was that? Pretty? Like, oh, I could help him? Probably

Kasey 1:11:27
like my personality. So

Scott Benner 1:11:31
trust me, you've been said you'd be sending him supplements if he would have said yes.

But that's really interesting, isn't it? That you, I don't know why I find that so like, just interesting. It makes me think of every pretty girl I went to school with. Like, and and then you're just like, Oh, I remember everybody loved that girl. And like and or that guy, like every girl was looking for that guy, or vice versa, whatever. And then you see them now as adults and like some of them are like, I get it. Like I still get it, you know? And then some of them you're like, Oh, whoops. I think I used it all up early. Oh, yeah.

Kasey 1:12:12
I was the girl had a crush on everybody. Like literally everybody. So I was non discriminatory.

Scott Benner 1:12:19
Just didn't matter. I see the good Nall. That's fantastic. You should you just got married. Is that your first marriage? Yeah. You waited on purpose? Looking for the?

Kasey 1:12:31
Yeah, dated a lot, but just hadn't found the right one. And then. And then I, we were best friends for like three years. And then he asked me on a trip. And we went and the rest is history. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:12:48
If you could afford vacations I'm in. That's good. I wouldn't be thinking it'd be like a trip that damn right. Let's go. But I applaud the waiting. Like, I like that. Like I like the don't just marry the first person who stops in front of Oh, no. Yeah, no, no, no feeling. That's very cool. Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have? No, no.

Kasey 1:13:12
I don't think so. I mean, there's lots more that I could talk about. But yeah, but nothing that needs to be talked

Scott Benner 1:13:17
about. Well, needed wonder the same thing. I don't want to I just don't want to miss anything. Because it's your story, you know, and I want to make sure that it's somewhere in between you telling your story and me being silly that we get the things that are important to you. And be telling stories about people being boring on YouTube and how delighted I was by it. I mean, it's a real look into my illness. But I have to go back and tell you again. When he said the problem is it's boring. And then he went on to be boring. I don't know. Like if you know everything you need to know about me. I giggled for 10 minutes while it was happening. Like I'm like, oh my god, it's still happening. My voice like shut up. I'm like, no, like, he still boring the crap out of me. Probably such a lovely person. Like I feel, ya know, I

Kasey 1:14:04
love people. They don't know. They don't know.

Scott Benner 1:14:08
It's hard to do this, like, do you the thing you do it work? Is it scripted? Or are you driving it? Where do you let them talk and then edit around there? Yeah,

Kasey 1:14:20
that's what it's it's like we have some general questions. And but we just let them talk. And then once we get the transcripts, then we kind of start piecing it together and figuring out how do we tell this? How do we tell this story?

Scott Benner 1:14:36
So more like more like a more like a PBS style podcast feeling?

Kasey 1:14:42
Yeah, kind of. Yeah. But also, you know, there's time constraints like, Oh, you got to tell it in five minutes or less. So

Scott Benner 1:14:51
you see PVS I did. I did one of those podcasts once was for it was very UK podcast and they wanted to interview me There's about behavior. It's a parenting thing. Oddly enough, all the things I'm ever interviewed about have nothing to do with diabetes. It's always very, yeah. So they're like, you know, they sit down and we have these long conversation must go on for a half an hour person would ask question, I'd pontificate like, they went back and forth. And then I heard it. And I don't know that I didn't talk for maybe 25 seconds. And but they somehow picked out the exact thing they needed to put in that exact space. And I was like, wow, that's a skill. That's an editing skill. Because I, as you can all probably imagine, chess talked for ever, you know, like, and not just and I'm not like, direct, I tell stories to make points, and you know, like, all this stuff, but they loved it. They were like, this is this is exactly what we need. And I was like, okay, but then they didn't need more than 20 seconds here, and 10 seconds there and stuff like that. It's interesting. How

Kasey 1:15:50
they did oh, yeah, no, we always get way more. I mean, I just did an interview a couple weeks ago is an hour, an hour long interview, and I have to edit it down to five minutes or less. Yeah, yeah. I

Scott Benner 1:16:04
when my book came out, it's so funny. I'm not mentioning this twice. And I don't mean to. I got Pete, I don't know if people wouldn't know this. But if you're not famous, and I'm certainly not. If you're not famous and you write a book, your publisher doesn't really help you sell the book very much. I know that sounds strange, but they don't. And so I got myself some media. And that media led to Katie currux, online producer reaching out to me, I'm in this studio in New York City. It's actually where they do the CBS News, I think is where we shot it. But the News, the news wasn't till later in the day, so everything's kind of pushed off the it's so cool like this, this, the new stages is pushed off into a corner. And they're shooting this web show. But at the same time, there are 20 or 30 desks of people who work for CBS, who are literally just doing their job in that space. Yeah. And it was going to be this gentleman was gonna get interviewed, I forget about what and then it was me. So I was kind of in the wings while he was doing it. And I have to give this guy like a ton of credit for a lot of my life, even though I don't know who he is. He didn't really do it on purpose. But he gave this very competent interview. That when it ended, I thought, well, that's so forgettable. I'm not gonna be forgettable when I talk to miss Kirk in a second. Okay, so the next thing I know, I'm up there telling stories about this time, my wife and I were having sex in a field and a commuter train went by really slow and everyone could see us and like, but you know, like, I just like I told big, stupid stories. Like she's like, so you're an author. She tries to bring it back. And I'm like, Oh, my God. Yeah, I got a book signing. And she's like, Yo books and like, in my hometown, I was like, I was so excited. My wife stayed home that day, to help me because the book signing was in the afternoon, got the kids off to school, and I came back into the bedroom and I was like, this seems like the kind of day a guy like me would get to have sex, right? Because like, I wrote a book and I got a book signing and she's Katie Couric is looking at me like, What in the hell are we doing? I'm like, so anyway, Katie. I jump into bed. I'm very exuberant, excited, but I think I hit my wife's nipple by mistake, kind of pinch it to the bed. You know what I'm talking about. And I'm telling this big. This big dumb story. And she's laughing. And everyone working in the desks is laughing. The guy running the cameras laughing the producers laughing and I am just like, I this is why famous people are crazy. I'm like, I feel terrific about like, how I'm manipulating these people's like life and they're laughing. And everything anyway, gets all done. She's like, like, telling me stories afterwards. By the way. I'm gonna say this right here. I've never said that before. What a dirty mouth on a lady. I love Katie Couric. You'd have no idea by watching her on TV. She is hilarious, right? So we're talking afterwards and everything. And about a week later, I get this note from her producer. And she's like, Hey, you know the things up now. And I go and look at it. And it's like, four minutes long. And none of my stories are in there. And I got back to it. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Did I let you down? She goes, Oh, are

Speaker 2 1:19:12
you kidding me? She goes, that video is famous in this building. She's like, we are all watching it on our on our computers. She's like, it's never gonna make it into the thing. She goes,

Kasey 1:19:23
Yeah, we can't use them. But we can watch it. Terrific. Thank

Scott Benner 1:19:27
you. And I'm like, okay, but then, you know, a couple of weeks later, they call me back and actually had me on our television show. They were in a meeting. And they said, we should get that guy back from that thing. Actually, Katie Couric said that in the meeting, she said, Why is the quote the girls like I wrote it down for you. She said, I was just in a meeting with Katie. And she said, why are we not getting Scott Benner for this? Oh, and I was like, see, they didn't ask for the other guy cuz he was competent. And you were memorable. I was like, let me tell you Katie about this time. She's just Gotta be like, is this not about parenting? And I'm like, not anymore, honey, I'm here. Let's go.

Kasey 1:20:08
Anyway, on all kinds of directions,

Scott Benner 1:20:10
if it wasn't for that guy going before me, I would have done the same thing he did. Okay, I swear to God, I was already, I would have gone up there and gave her dry answers to canned questions, and it would have been forgettable. And I know we do like colorful stuff. Yeah. And then she doesn't invite me back. And then the time she invites me back is when she pulls me aside after it's over, and she says, You're so good at talking to people. And that's, that's what made me make a podcast.

Kasey 1:20:41
So and that's also part of why I wanted to come on the podcast besides the helping people, I was like, it'd be really cool to talk to Scott.

Scott Benner 1:20:50
Oh, that's lovely here too nice. Was it cool? Yes, of course. Of course. Don't say of course. You don't think I bought you a couple of these once in a while. Could have been yours. I just I was the other I was just last night, texting with with Isabel who helps me with the Facebook group and other things. And one of the things I texted her I was like, hey, if I ever told the story in the pockets, this is a really good story. I want to tell the shoes. You've told that on the podcast. I'm like, Are you kidding me? And she goes, Yeah, I'm like, Are you sure she was you absolutely have told this one. I was like, what about this one? And she goes, you've never said that. I'm like, Well, I'm gonna say that one day. She's like, she's like, What is this story about? I said, Oh, you have to hear it on the podcast. I'm like, I can't tell it all to you here. The long and the short of it is though, Casey, is that one summer, I tasked myself with making up two words and working them into conversations. months doing it, until one day I actually got a person to use the word. And that was I stopped I was just like, oh, I won. Over told them like I just I just kept using this word in this certain context. And then one day they used it. And she's like, is that really a story for the podcast? And like it might not be? I started a thing. Yeah. How about the time I flew to Albany was stuttering John, from the Howard Stern Show in a private plane. No, I've never told that one. One day. Not today, Casey, though. Not today. Oh, my God. All right. Well, I appreciate you doing this very much. It's nice to take the time and you were very kind. And you let me move the time. So I could go to a doctor's appointment with my wife today. And I really appreciate that too. Thank you. Sure.

Kasey 1:22:36
Of course, no problem. Cool.

Scott Benner 1:22:38
Hold on one second for me.

A huge thanks to Casey for coming on the show and sharing her story. And of course, boudoir, Father Joe for ruining my childhood and the childhoods of everyone I knew. You're definitely gonna want to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes, there's over 43,000 members and right now there's a conversation going on that you could add to learn from or may just enjoy looking at on. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. No matter where you're listening. Even if it's not Apple podcasts, can you please check to make sure you're subscribed are following and that your player is set up to download new episodes. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. And if you're interested in that information about better help, hold on for one second. BetterHelp is the world's largest therapy service, and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapist who can help you with a wide range of issues. Better help.com forward slash juicebox. To get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy. That way BetterHelp can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. You can message your therapist at any time and schedule live sessions when it's convenient for you. Talk to them however you feel comfortable text chat phone or video call. If your therapist isn't the right fit for any reason at all. You can switch to a new therapist at no additional charge. And the best part for me is that with better help you get the same professionalism and quality you expect from in office therapy. But with a therapist who is custom picked for you, and you're gonna get more scheduling flexibility, and a more affordable price betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox that's better help h e l p.com. Forward slash juicebox save 10% On your first month of therapy

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#1074 Parenting: Creating Boundaries and Expectations

Scott and Erika talk about creating boundaries and expectations. They discuss realistic physical and emotional boundaries, empathy and self-awareness.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner: Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1074 of the Juicebox Podcast. Welcome back to the fourth installment of the Parenting Series with myself and Erica Forsyth. Today's episode is Creating Boundaries and Expectations. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you're looking to find Erica, she's at ericaforsythe.com. She can help you virtually or in person, depending on what state you live in. Erica is not just a terrific therapist. She's also a 30 plus year type one. iPhone users, please listen. If you're listening in Apple podcasts, there's been a recent update to your operating system. If you've done that update and you're on iOS 17 now, your podcast app may not be downloading the podcast the way you expect it to. Go to your podcast app, choose the show, go to the three dots in the top right corner, choose settings, go down to automatic downloads and set it to download all episodes. That way you won't miss an episode of the juice box podcast. I don't know where you're currently getting your diabetes supplies from, but Arden gets hers from US Med. usmed.com slash juicebox or call 888-721-1514. I want to personally thank US Med for being a longtime sponsor of the podcast and for sponsoring this episode. If you're interested in getting your supplies the same way we do, check out the website usmed.com slash juicebox. or call 888-721-1514. Get your free benefits check, and you'll be on your way. Just for everyone listening, I'm really excited about what we're doing here, but I'm more excited about what Erika told me she's gonna tell me after we record the podcast. Let's see, we're gonna do... Hi. Hi, Erika's like, it's me. Let's see, Erika has put together a lovely outline for today's episode. This is episode four of the parenting series, Creating Boundaries and Expectations. So why don't you walk everybody through, you kind of have like a three tiered map here for me. Tell me why you put it together the way you did.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes. Okay. So I think it's first, it'll be helpful for us to understand what is a realistic boundary or realistic rule, why we set them for our children along with why we set realistic expectations. And I think when we think about boundaries, we think for, and also I want to make sure we do this kind of in a developmental age appropriate way, but for little children, we think about boundaries usually around physical boundaries. Like don't, don't run across the street, don't touch the hot stove, keep your hands to yourself. So we think about these physical boundaries, but I also want us to make sure we think about the emotional boundaries that we set for our children. For example, a physical boundary, we, as I said, let's say, we'll start with the keep your hands to yourself. Okay, why is it important for your child to follow that rule? Well, so that they don't hurt the other child, and then they don't get hurt in response. how do we reinforce that realistic boundary with our child? And this is where I think we can get into a little bit deeper discussion is having the really emphasizing empathy and self-awareness. And I think as parents, we often think, well, empathy is like an older, more mature concept for children to get. But if we start teaching our children when we're setting these boundaries and rules and expectations about empathy and self-awareness, that helps them grow into being really responsible teens and adults.

Scott Benner: So let me ask you a question. So the idea of like, just don't put your hands on other people without permission, right? Is that teaches you to understand how the other person might feel? Right, it's more about that interaction than just, you don't touch people because you don't do it. Like, there's more to it than that.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: That's right, that's right. So the empathy piece, so you could even do this with a two-year-old when they're learning, you know, in preschool or they're getting out in more social interactions. Like, okay, we don't put, we keep our hands to ourself. Why? Because you can, how would you feel if Johnny pushed you? they understand that concept. Another way to model that or illustrate that is when they're watching a TV show or reading a book, like, wow, look at these two little boys are arguing or two little girls are arguing and they're pushing each other. How do you think they each feel? And so constantly asking them, How do you think you would feel if your friend did that to you? That is teaching them empathy. The next piece is the self-awareness, right? So first we're wanting to demonstrate that the physical boundaries around how would the other person feel going into the other person's physical area, but then also having the self-awareness of how do you feel when someone crosses into your physical or emotional zone? And that's the self-awareness piece.

Scott Benner: So not only can you absorb it for, oh, I would not enjoy that, but then you have a deeper understanding of how they might feel, which might in turn stop you from putting your hands on them in some way. That's right. It's a real learning process. Did I do the wrong thing when I told my kids, if you hit somebody, you should expect they might hit you back? because that's kind of how I told them.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Well, that's that's like, you know, action and every action has consequence type of, you know, learning. Did you do the wrong thing? I think that's it's a different way of, you know, teaching them that they're the if they're if they're not being empathetic, there's there might be a consequence.

Scott Benner: Right. I was also trying to teach them like levels of thought, like, you know, say you're so upset that you push somebody. It's a great example that you used, right? I don't know that people then think, well, that will either make them upset or make them defensive. And then they're going to come back at you and you don't know what level of violence they're going to come back to you with, which led me to the next thing that I taught them was don't screw with people because you don't know how far they're willing to go. Like you don't know their story, you know, like their story in the moment or their life story, you know, a shove to you might just be like, ah, but to them it could be time for war. Like you have no idea like what their level of understanding is.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, yes. I mean, and that's obviously a really mature concept for a child to pause when they're in the moment, their adrenaline's going and they want to reach out, right? But teaching them the social skills in the moment is really the most effective way for them to learn and practice right then. But obviously going back and teaching them the correct way to act in that moment is also helpful. So there's this Yes, kind of give and take of like, okay, how would you feel if someone did that action to you? And then the self-awareness pieces, how do I feel, right? Like how am I feeling if someone touches me or pushes me or says something that I really, I don't feel good about when they say that to me? Right. and being able to then advocate for yourself, right? Say, oh, that doesn't feel good physically or emotionally. Understanding A, what that feels like for role-playing, modeling for your child, and then giving them the skills and the verbiage to say, gosh, please stop. I don't like that.

Scott Benner: So these are skills, the earlier they're taught, you're talking about repetition, the earlier they're taught, the more likely they are to be able to bake them into their lives, and you are gonna need them as an adult. You are going to be a 35-year-old person one day that needs to turn to your mom and go, it doesn't feel good when you say that. I know you're saying it for this reason, I'm trying to take it that way, but it makes me feel poorly, here's why. Everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies. but not everybody gets them from USMed, the way we do. usmed.com forward slash juicebox, or call 888-721-1514. USMed is the number one distributor for Freestyle Libre Systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omnipod Dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, and they always provide 90 days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping. That's right, USMed carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies right up to your latest CGMs like the Freestyle Libre 2 and 3 and the Dexcom G6 and 7. They even have Omnipod Dash and Omnipod 5. They have an A-plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514 or by going to my link usmed.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, You get your free benefits check, and then if they take your insurance, you're off and going. And U.S. Med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. Better service and better care is what U.S. Med wants to provide for you. USmed.com forward slash juicebox. Get your diabetes supplies the same way Arden does from USmed. Links in the show notes, links at juiceboxpodcast.com to USmed and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the show.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, I mean, these are like such crucial skills to give your child to, yes, understand how the other person's feeling, but also understand when your boundary is crossed physically or emotionally and being able to advocate for yourself in that way and not become like, it's okay, it's okay, and want to avoid conflict or people pleasing, all of those things.

Scott Benner: Yeah, what else do you get out of telling a person how their actions or words make you feel. Is there a resolution that happens for you when you do that?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: So you, well the resolution is hopefully that the person doesn't continue. And I think this can even, I know we're talking about this in like child to child interaction, but even in a parent-child dynamic, when you're setting a boundary or the child's trying to communicate, do you, one of the common examples that you might hear or read about is like, you know, you like to tickle the kid and the kid's like laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing. And then he's like, stop, stop, stop. And you think they're kind of joking. I mean, I remember this as a kid too. And it is kind of funny and fun, but then at some point, you also get to teach your child like, okay, are you saying no? Is this a boundary? Have I crossed it? Is this fun or funny? But then teaching the kid how to tell your child to say, no, this is, okay, please stop now. I'm done. And so then the resolution is you're teaching the child that you're also validating what they're saying to you, and you're listening to them. So you're teaching them boundary setting, self-advocacy, and in a bigger parent-child dynamic, I hear you, I see what you're saying, and I'm going to stop, and I'm going to validate your needs.

Scott Benner: They get to see what it feels like to be respected, and therefore may be more likely to respect people in return, knowing what good feeling it delivers to them.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, absolutely. And wanting to reinforce that over and over by offering and then saying, wow, I thank you so, you know, I really appreciate that you, because oftentimes I know as a parent, we might feel like, oops, I crossed the line. I messed up, or I'm not going to really listen to the child. They're probably just being silly, but praising, saying, wow, thank you so much for communicating what you really needed in that moment. And if you did cross their own physical or emotional boundary, it's okay to say, I'm sorry, I did that. So then you're modeling, it's like we're constantly trying to model because they do what they see.

Scott Benner: I find telling my kids that I appreciate that they shared something with me is really helpful. It's hard to do because it always happens in the worst moments. It always happens in a moment where you're like, oh, I messed that up. You're just sitting there thinking, I didn't do this right, and now look where we've gotten. They, you know, have the courage to express it to you. And that's when you really got to just swallow the rest of whatever's going on in your head and just say, I appreciate you telling me that, you know, I'll I'll remember next time. And if I don't, tell me again, please. Because I don't I don't mean to do this.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes.

Scott Benner: Stuff. People's intentions are generally good. They're just execution is usually the crappy part. So, yes.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: I think modeling that and then modeling to your if and your partner, you get to practice the physical boundary setting, excuse me, the emotional boundary setting, when let's say you're engaged in a conflict and you maybe have crossed some boundaries to check in and say, you know, this is what I hear you say, or did I make a mistake? Did I offend you? How can we move forward? And so children also get to see you model that like, okay, oops, there were some boundaries crossed. They said some things. because, you know, kids are going to hear us have conflicts sometimes, that's okay, to then practice that repair work when we do cross some of those emotional boundaries for them.

Scott Benner: Okay. Physical boundaries, advocating for yourself, emotional listening to others, being empathetic. I feel like that's covered, but do you have more to say about that or are we good on that part?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: I think this piece too, yes, I skipped. As a young child in elementary school, they're learning how to listen to the teacher, they're learning how to listen to their friends, and how to put their empathy hat, so to speak, on in those moments to tell them, you know, it's really important to listen to other people when they're speaking, just as you want other people to hear your needs. You want people to understand how you're feeling and what's really important to you. And that's why we want to also listen to other people, just kind of constantly putting on that like empathy. How does it feel when someone physically crosses your line and how does it feel when someone doesn't really listen to what you're trying to say? And that's often when we see, you know, There's all sorts of behaviors, tantrums, right? If they don't really know, A, how to communicate what they're feeling, but then also when they're feeling like, hey, no one's really getting what I'm trying to say. Instructing, modeling for them. I really, it's so important to listen to other people just as you want people to listen to you.

Scott Benner: I think it's incredibly important. I'm 52, and it still bothers me like I'm five years old if it feels like somebody's not listening to me. And that has to be from the way I grew up. So if you don't want your kid to feel like that 50 years from now, do what Erica is saying now, skip all that problem for them. I mean, it's not a thing that I'm not crippled by it or anything like that, but I can feel like at the very center of the back of my brain, it's upsetting to me to feel like I'm not being heard. And I don't even mean like in the podcast, I mean like in personal relationships. You know what I mean? Like here, it's fine. I say what I say and you'll listen or you won't, it's fine. But, um, but, but I mean, like in my personal relationships, if I don't feel, if I don't feel understood, I'm off balance until I can figure it out. It's interesting.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: So, and then as a result, I imagine though, you've learned when that boundary has either been crossed or not met, you're then able to maybe articulate like, Hey, I don't, I feel like my needs aren't being met or you're not hearing me.

Scott Benner: Yeah, I mean, I can feel it coming, but it doesn't always stop. You're not listening. You're not hearing what I'm saying. And the closer I feel to you, the worse it feels when it happens. And it's not like a bad thing. It's not like somebody's willfully not listening to me. I don't think that actually even happens in my life. But if I try to explain myself to my wife, for example, and she's not understanding how I feel, and if she's not understanding my intent, but more importantly is, in my opinion, misrepresenting what I'm doing, I'm almost a little crushed. I'm like, no, that's not what I'm saying. And then it's frustrating that I apparently can't say what I feel in a way that is receivable by another person. And then it's just like it's a spiral from there. Yes. Anyway, I mean, so you tell me I could just do these things. Somebody could have done this with you. And I was like, for I would have not gone through this. I would have been amazing. Well, let's dig my mom up and yell at her. I'm just kidding. My mom's been dead long enough for us to joke about it, hasn't she? No. Oh, stop. It's fine. She would have thought it was funny. OK, OK, OK.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Moving on.

Scott Benner: modeling behavior for children, and then the idea of reflective listening that I always kind of need just maybe described to me.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yeah, so that's again, that is you can feel so validated and someone you can more easily empathize with someone when what you were just describing, the example, when you share how you're feeling with somebody and either A, you're not either communicating it clearly or B, the person isn't able to understand it and for whatever reason, then that's when maybe your wife could say, this is what I hear you say. and then you get the opportunity to say, no, this is, I'm saying, I feel this way. And you keep going until you've been able to articulate exactly, you know, I feel this way when, and then the person who's practicing the reflective listening says, I hear you say that you feel this way when. Right. And again, I know we've talked about this in the communication episode. It feels silly, but it can feel connecting and you're just validating and then you're under, you're really able to empathize with the person because you're like, wow, okay, so you feel really disappointed or sad when I do this thing.

Scott Benner: I just want to tell guys that in most of your married situations, the last sentence will be spoken by your wife who feels a certain way and it negates all the ways you feel. And then you lose and it's over. And I know it's not about winning and losing. I take my victories morally. When I see on her face she gets it, I don't even sometimes ask her to say it out loud. I'm like, that's enough, she knows. It's not important for her to say it out loud. And I don't mean like winning and losing. And I think that's important because I'm sure I do the same thing. Like, I've heard you now. I know you're right. And whatever that is inside of you, I can't get it out to say I'm wrong. But anyway, it's important. That's why it's so important to do this stuff with the kids, because it gets harder and harder the older you get. And I think people could get concerned, too, if they're going to raise soft children. Do you know what I mean? Well, I don't want my kid being a marshmallow and just taking people's crap, et cetera. Those are not the same two things, in my opinion. Being able to stick up for yourself and being concerned with how other people feel and understanding how you make other people feel, those two things are not the same thing to me. That's right.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: having empathy for other people is really a powerful tool and also understanding how you feel in certain situations is equally as powerful for yourself and for your relationships, right? And so to not only have the reflective listening skill as a parent to your child, but partner to partner, I think Ultimately, what you're doing is building that relationship, and it's from the parent-child perspective. You are telling them and showing them, I am here for you, I hear what you're saying, and then they become empowered, too, as they grow up, to not become a marshmallow, but to say, you know what? I can communicate what I feel and what I need in a healthy way, and I can also empathize with others.

Scott Benner: Listen, I'm no physical force, but I think if you listen to this podcast, you can hear that I'm an incredibly empathetic person. I put myself in other people's shoes constantly. I spent a lot of my life trying to help other people to feel better. But if we were out in public and shit got sideways, I'd stand right up with everybody else. And I don't think those two things, like, I just don't think they're mutually exclusive, you know? But I do think that you could hear this as a young parent and think, I'm not going to turn my kid into a pushover by doing this. And I really don't think that's what happens. I think actually the exact opposite ends up happening. So they get better in conflict resolution. Like, you're going to raise a kid who can be in a group of five people who are having a problem and step out of it a little bit, and they can see what's happening. You know, like, I know why this person's upset. I know why this person's upset. You're going to create a person who's a mediator as well as, you know, a leader. Honestly, I think. But I don't know, Erika. That's just me and my silly podcast. No, I think...

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: I mean, having the ability to identify and verbalize how you're feeling and understand how other people are feeling, it's a hard skill. And if we all could do that perfectly, there would be no issue anytime, ever.

Scott Benner: Yeah, listen, if you want to have a really popular podcast, I'd learn that one if I was you. It's very helpful. It's just interesting to talk about how a parenting decision for a three-year-old could impact a 50-year-old person's life, because I don't think we stop to think about that stuff. You know, or frequently enough, maybe don't think about it. You say, oh, I'll give them good tools and they'll turn into good people. But here's a concrete example of how that can happen. You know, I don't know. Like, my parents didn't teach it to me. I learned it along the way. If Arden doesn't get diabetes, I don't get involved in this space. I don't learn to have... I had more of a caregiver's mentality before Arden's diabetes. Like, if you were related to me, I would take good care of you. But I didn't particularly give a crap about other people. And now, like, this whole thing is... Like I used to tell people like I was not a chicken soup for the soul person before I started this whole thing. And now, like, you know, I had to teach myself how not to feel everyone's pain. I'm so connected to so many people, you know, and that even was anyway. Well, I'm sorry, I'm getting Erica off track. She's looking at me like I made this great list. Now you're chatting.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: You've got a good master's level, you know.

Scott Benner: psychology but everybody can get that just by watching the people around them and not it has to be more important for you to understand what's really happening than to lay your feelings over top of what is happening and color that situation with how you see it it's not it's not really important how you see it it's important what's actually happening I don't know if that makes sense or not.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, but it does become important, this goes back to your own boundaries, when your boundaries are crossed, right? Yeah. Emotionally, physically, and then to be able to know how to speak and articulate that, verbalize that, yeah.

Scott Benner: I'm not letting anybody walk all over me, but I'm willing to understand. Trust me, if what you think is harmful to me, Well, you found my line then. Now I don't care how you feel anymore. Now I'm on Scott's side. So your last bit here, validating emotions for this piece.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, I think we'll get into this point a little bit later in this episode and in the following episode. But I think as we're thinking about setting appropriate healthy boundaries and expectations for our children and offering praise in the midst of all of that, right? So as they're learning how to set physical and emotional boundaries, they're learning how to meet certain expectations. We want to offer the praise in the moment of like, wow, you're doing a really good job. in this growth area, but that you're not just like we as parents, we've already kind of mentioned this, we're not always going to do it perfectly. And then inserting the lesson of self-compassion, right? To say, gosh, you know, we're not always going to do everything right. We are going to step on, we are going to push our friends physically or emotionally sometimes. We're going to learn how to correct that. And then we're going to practice that self-compassion piece and not just be like, ah, I'm a terrible parent, I'm a terrible kid, I can never get it right, meeting these boundaries and expectations. And so I just wanted to slide that in there too, like it's okay to model that for your child as a parent, but also teach that to your child.

Scott Benner: Short memory, right? Yeah. There's an episode going up with you and I next week. which means nothing. I shouldn't have said it like that here, because people would be like, next week. It was six months ago if you're hearing this. But it's about, like, I drug you on here one day and I was like, I want to talk about how people compare things. And we got into this long conversation that by the time we were done, kind of boiled down to, you know, a Hall of Fame hitter bats about 300, and that I see this piece like that. What you're calling self-compassion, I say, I mean, 3 in 10 is not bad. You know what I mean? You're going to fail more than you succeed, that kind of idea, and not to beat yourself up over those things. And what they tell a hitter in baseball is you have to have a short memory. which just means like you fail, you move on, you don't look back. I mean, this seems like obvious stuff to say out loud until you try to put it into practice in your life. And then it's maybe not as easy. Anyway, but the ones that come out on top are the ones that master that idea. Truly, you know. Okay, so moving on. Addressing the negative impacts of demanding perfectionism and having unrealistic standards. Wow. Thank God you're here. Yes. Seriously.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: So this is a biggie. This is a biggie. Yeah.

Scott Benner: Go ahead, please.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: I'm glad to be here. This is really challenging. So as we think about perfection, I wanted to kind of just highlight that there's different types of perfectionism. There's the self-oriented perfectionism when we're demanding perfection from ourselves. This is kind of self-explanatory. There's other oriented perfectionism when we're demanding perfection from others. And then there's the socially prescribed perfectionism when we think everyone around us is demanding perfection from us, which then maybe kind of goes into the self-oriented perfectionism.

Scott Benner: Give them to me again. Give me the three again, just real quick.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Okay, so self-oriented perfectionism, other-oriented, and then socially prescribed.

Scott Benner: Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to make a note for myself. The socially prescribed one sounds dangerous to my mental health, but let's, let's hear what you're going to say.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, absolutely. And okay. So thinking about these, the negative impacts and of how we might be demanding perfectionism as a parent to our child, that's how we're going to look at this. So if we are demanding or expecting a perfection from our children, they are gonna constantly feel like there's unrealistic standards and they're not gonna meet them over and over and over again. And then they're gonna eventually, I mean, this is not every child, but this is pretty common, that they then will believe that they're never good enough. And we've talked about that statement, right? Like that mindset of, I'm never gonna be a good enough fill in the blank. And so they're thinking, okay, mom and dad expect me to have straight A's, or such and such number A1C, or to be, you know, whatever it is. And without maybe having, usually this happens without really a whole lot of awareness, but as a parent you're expecting perfection, they're gonna struggle to meet those unrealistic standards. And because of that struggle of never meeting this, because there is no such thing as meeting those perfectionistic standards, they are gonna develop that concept, gosh, no matter what I do, I'm never gonna be good enough. I'm never gonna meet my parents' expectations. And obviously that there's a snowball effect in that mindset that we've talked about before.

Scott Benner: Do you think that parents actually have, overwhelmingly have that expectation of perfection? Or do you think it's the fear as a parent that you don't want potential to be wasted and that effort finds potential? But then it gets misinterpreted by the kid or by the way you deliver it. Do you think that's what really happened? How many people do you think are running around going, I want my kid to be perfect? You know what I mean?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yeah, we don't. We don't. We say we want our child, we want to do the best. Just go out and do your best or do better. So I think go out and do your best isn't necessarily negative, but when we say to our child, okay, just go out and do your best on that test or do your best in that game, and then they come back and they can pick up very small cues on our face of like, Oh, because we might have an expectation that the best is 100% or the best is winning the game or getting strikes, whatever. So they are going to pick up even if we're like, no, we just want our child to do the best. We don't have high standards, but then we're like, oh, did you try your best? I think you, did you study hard enough? Yeah. Were you, were you focused during the game? Now, again, I know there are times when maybe this, these reflections are appropriate, right? So this is, but I'm, I'm generally globally stereotyping if we're consistently saying, go do your best or do better, you can do better.

Scott Benner: And then questioning if they did that. Right. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yeah. Then they're learning, oh, I actually studied for hours for weeks and, or I've been practicing every day. I did my, that was my best.

Scott Benner: And if it wasn't, how the hell do I find what my best is? Because this feels like I've given everything I have. Right. And by the way, I guess even if they haven't given everything they have, if they still feel that way, then you're telling them there's more, but they don't know the pathway to it.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes. Yes.

Scott Benner: Yes. That was big.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: That was big. I got it.

Scott Benner: Yeah, wow. And how do you think about that in the moment when really what you're trying to say to the kid is, like, just could you watch the ball, please? Like, just stop looking away in the middle of the abat, if you could. Yeah, I know. Isn't that crazy?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: And this is, and I know we'll get into this too, because I'm thinking about like the counterpoint is, but if we're always saying you did your great job, good job, good job, good job, good job, good job all the time, then, you know, finding that balance is difficult, right? Like you want, you want your child to do their best and apply themselves. However, we also need to be in check with what does that actually look like and feel like?

Scott Benner: Yeah, and what does the best mean? The best means for you. Do your best, not the best. Do you know what I mean? I'll keep going back to baseball because I just watched my son go through it forever and ever. You can be the best baseball player on your high school team and be nowhere near the best baseball player in the world, but that kid's now achieved their potential. They're a really good high school baseball player. you can't keep telling them, well, there's people doing better than you. There's always someone doing better than you. And if we're chasing that forever and ever, you know, to take maybe what might seem like a weird left turn for a second, there's this Amazon Prime documentary up right now for this guy named Jason Kelsey, who is probably a person you don't know. And I only know probably because he snaps the ball for the Philadelphia Eagles, and I grew up in Pennsylvania and Philadelphia, okay? Okay. He's a really interesting older guy who's been in the league for a long time. And they started out by documenting what they thought was going to be his last year of his career. Turns out he's going to come back and play for another year. But inside this documentary, he's in a poker game with a bunch of retired football players, professional football players. So a bunch of people who are literally the best at what they did, right? Because even if you're the third tight end on a bad professional football team, you're one of like the best 85 tight ends on the planet. That makes you the best as far as my considerations goes. To watch these guys all sit around and stare into space and not be able to figure out what the rest of their life means and what it's like, there's no more excellence to chase. Like they didn't just get tired of it, they made it. And now they're still alive, and they don't know what to do. And I think that's not a good thing to instill in your kids. Because those 85 guys, they've reached the mountaintop, and they're probably wealthy. They also probably get headaches a lot, and maybe will die earlier. But nevertheless, they've made it as far as they're going to make it in this situation, right? But for every one of those guys, there has to be tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of other boys who thought they were going to be the best tight end on the blah, blah, blah, who are still right now living their life feeling like failures because of something you told them when they were seven. And that's where my bigger concern comes from. But that's my example for why you might not want to tell your kids. that they're trying to achieve perfection. So anyway, I don't, does that make sense to you?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes. I think the, and I mean, we obviously, we see that example a lot in sports, you know, children wanting to be pro athletes or, you know, superstars. And I think there's that, again, that fine line, striking that balance between like wanting to do your best, but also accepting some reality.

Scott Benner: Of who you are. Yeah. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Of your identity and your strengths.

Scott Benner: Right. I did the best I could do. That's pretty amazing. Now I got to go find a new thing to like to try to achieve. And that, listen, there's a 10 part podcast series in the six months that I watched my son let go of playing baseball and move on to something else. You have no idea how scared I was during that time. that he wouldn't be able to do that, you know? And listen, my kid played baseball in college, which somehow makes him one of the best 9,000 baseball players in the country, and he was nowhere near being one of the guys you see on television. So, like, nowhere near. Like, they describe, and I think this is for everything, but they describe playing baseball as trying to climb a pyramid. Right, like when you start and everyone's at the base, so many people fit around the pyramid. But every time you take a step up and you're trying to get to the point, fewer and fewer people fit on the pyramid. Yeah, my kid was pretty far up that pyramid. But the amount of people between him and the tip was astronomical in his reality.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Mm hmm.

Scott Benner: it's not a thing you want to hang somebody with for the rest of their life. Like I consciously thought about it for years. Like when this is over, how do we make sure he doesn't end up a guy sitting at a card table, staring at a wall, wondering what the hell he's supposed to do with his life? Cause this is all he thinks life is, you know? Anyway, I'm sorry. That was a rabbit hole. I apologize.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: No, I think it was a good, some good illustrations of how, you know, the negative impacts, right, of of this expectation of perfection, even when we're we're thinking we're not doing that, that we're just we're just encouraging our children to do their best.

Scott Benner: Well, in a reality where there's 300 guys who are pro baseball players and a handful of people who are billionaires and like, you know, a handful of people who are beautiful. I know we think everybody's beautiful because of Instagram. Most of us look like me. when the idea is that no one's going to make it to the tip of the pyramid anyway. I'm not saying don't try. I'm saying when you get halfway up the pyramid, make a cup of tea, sit back, and appreciate what you did for a little while, you know? And that's all I got. I'm sorry. Where are we at here?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: I lost the list. We're trying to set the bar just right. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner: Yeah, go ahead.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: So again, I know we want our children to excel in where they apply themselves. And so when we're thinking about setting the bar, we don't want to set it too high or too low. Again, I know this feels like it can be challenging at times, but when we are setting the bar too high, then the children And we see this a lot. There's a lot of anxiety in our teens currently, partially due to post-pandemic issues, ripple effects, but this pressure to perform and produce and achieve and excel. And so they're living with this constant stress and pressure. So that's if we're setting the bar too high, even without knowing for our children. And then when we set the bar too low, they also can develop this criticism or self-criticism or stress because we might be saying, we set the bar low, and then we're kind of saying to our children, but you can do, you can do better than that, right? So like we're trying to maybe overcompensate and not developing any kind of anxiety in our children by setting the bar low, but then we're constantly saying, like, come on, you could have done better. And so then they're feeling like they're letting you down, they have this personal sense of failure, and that contributes to more thoughts of self-esteem and anxiety. It's hard. It's really hard to find that right balance.

Scott Benner: Also, as a parent, you might be very aware of your own wasted potential. And now you're older and you're really like, oh, God, I could have done this. I could have done that. Like these little steps would have made a big difference to me. You're trying to get that over them. You know, I think that one of the hardest things I've encountered being somebody's parent is the fear of the unknown, is doing the right thing without an assurance that the right thing is going to happen afterwards. Does that make sense? Like, I'm going to do the right thing, and I'm going to hope that this goes well. Because if you can't let go of that, then you get this feeling in your head that you can direct reality. and control. Yeah, I'll control how this ends up. And it feels like, well, I'll control how this ends up so it gets to the right place. But what if you get to the right place, but you've done so much damage along the way that they can't even enjoy being in the correct in the place you wanted them to be? It's almost better. I'm going to sound like a hippie. It's almost better. Also, Does anyone use that word anymore besides me and a couple other people? But I think it's almost better to just let your kid be a happy, good representation of who they are and hope that they drift through the ether in the right direction. And I think they will, right? Like a well-stocked boat should make it to shore. And will a couple of them crash in the waves? They will, but if you're behind them the whole time going, turn here, turn here, do this, you're just going to turn them into a neurotic mess to begin with. So what does winning look like? I think winning at the end looks like healthy and happy.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Well, and then they maybe they made it to the coordinates, but they also found their way on their own, which which, by the way, that allows you to, like, do another thing.

Scott Benner: You know, Arden's trying to do something right now at college. And and I supported it a little. But then there were places in it where I thought, I'm going to let her take care of this because there's growth potential in these things. You know, setting this up, understanding how it works, that will help her to utilize the tool better moving forward. But she needs a physical item to get there. I'll send the physical item. So I'm like, here, here's a tool. Now you learn how to use it. But she asked me, how do I do this? And I sent her a link. I was like, this explains it. but you need to go figure it out yourself." And she said, thank you, and she moved on. Now, if this all doesn't work out, I could step back and say, oh, I could have held her hand through it, but then we don't know where else she ends up. Do you know what I mean? Like, what does she get from this or learn about herself? Maybe she'll pivot and end up doing something different with what she learned. It's not the initial goal, but maybe it's a new, better goal. There you go.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: That's it. Yes, yes.

Scott Benner: I smell like petroleum oil now. There's a reference no one gets.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: I know petroleum oil.

Scott Benner: You're from California. It's different.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes. It was alive and well in Laguna beach where I grew up. Yes. Um, I think the setting the bar I know is so challenging and it's hard. I mean, I, obviously I immediately think of all of the examples with our, you know, diabetes management piece. And one thing I know that we want to achieve the perfection, whatever that is, but I think there's been such great dialogue and understanding to eliminate that perfect number, perfect time and range. What a great way you can model for your child. If you are the one caregiving for your child in their management, their diabetes management, Like if you're constantly, we might think that they're not watching us, but if we're looking at their numbers or their graphs and we're thinking, gosh, I'm totally messed up there. We're never going to get this right because I know there's so much pressure on wanting to keep your child healthy and alive. but to model for your child so that when they are growing up and starting to take control of their own management, say, gosh, whoops, we goofed here, but we know we'll figure it out next time or we know how to correct here. Because I know that there's so much fear in not having tight management, but also to give yourself the release of not having that perfect time and range, but also for your child to see you do that, then they get to learn, you know, I'm going to do my best here and there, but there are going to be times when I'm not going to figure it out. And I'm going to be on the roller coaster. And so then they get all like, Oh yeah, I saw dad do that one time. Like he messed up and he didn't like,

Scott Benner: have a stroke. Yeah. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: I mean, I get I get why we do that. But it's such a great way to have your children learn how to imitate that self-compassion again.

Scott Benner: I don't imagine this is like coming to a surprise as a surprise to anyone. But this whole series here, when I thought about it, I just thought we would talk about parenting and then people could listen to it, then lay it over top of diabetes because it's the same thing. You know, like it really is. There are very few things in the world that aren't Core ideas and you know, I just thought this was a nice way to kind of bundle two things together Even though we don't feel like we're talking about diabetes. I think that's all we're talking about. Yes while we're talking about this, so Anyway, okay.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: So where are we at here on your we are we can move on to finding the right balance between discipline and understanding, okay, so

Scott Benner: All right. So we learned we don't hit people. I'm just kidding. It's not the seventies. You can't just hit me with a stick. If you want me to do something that doesn't, that doesn't work anymore. By the way, that probably doesn't work anymore at all. Kids are probably like, I have phone numbers. I can get out of here. I have a job. My tick tock makes 10,000 a month. I don't have to live here.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Oh gosh. Okay. So this kind of goes back to, you know, we talked about the different parenting styles in our first episode and wanting to try and strike again, striking the balance between having discipline, having consequences around the boundaries or expectations that you're setting or rules that you're setting for your children, while also pairing that with understanding validation fund. So I know that we talked about, if you're in the parenting style, like I'm the boss, they're going to do what I say, no matter what, I don't care how they think or feel about it. They're going to follow these rules and they're going to live within these boundaries and expectations I have for them. Then the counterpoint would be, well, aren't they just going to rebel because they don't want to be so confined? Maybe. But then the other opposite end of the spectrum is, we'll just let them figure it out. We're just going to understand their kids. They make mistakes and we're going to understand and validate over and over and over again. But then the counterpoint to that is, then kids really, there's a lot of different mental health issues that come along with that parenting style as well. And freedom to make choices, which is healthy, but when they don't understand there's any consequences to some of their choices or decisions, that also leads to problematic behavior. And so wanting to strike, sorry, go ahead.

Scott Benner: I'm just going to share something I recorded last week. I'm going to keep the details light. I was talking to an adult in their late twenties. I'm not trying to be funny, who has a specific like kink in their life, like a sexual quirk, right? That as I'm talking to them clearly comes from how they were raised. And 45 minutes into the conversation, I bring that up. And the person does not see the connection between the two at all. It's so obvious, but not to them. And it felt like that was important to put into here for some reason. Like, not that your kid's going to end up in an S&M dungeon, that's not what I was trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that you could lead somebody in a direction and they won't know what happened to them. And so they have no ability to course-correct, because this feels right to them. Even though it started with a bad thing, that person was empowered by this thing. And I mean, I'm only one person, but from my perspective, Had they not been abused as a child, I don't think they'd be in this situation right now. And I'm not saying the situation's bad or good. Like, if you're out there and you like to have your ass slapped, I'm not saying, I'm judging you. I'm saying that, like, sorry, this is what the conversation, you should go find, it's a great episode. It's one of the best episodes I've ever recorded, actually. But the point is, is that the cause and effect, I think, is so far apart in time that the mind can't even connect the two things. Plus, you have to defend yourself Against the abuse by empowering yourself. Does that make sense? It's like you take the bad thing you turn it into your power, which is understandable what would have been better is if the person didn't hit her to begin with and and so Anyway, I think that's what we're talking about here But there's a real-world example of what it could look like 25 years later is is what I'm saying. I

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, yes. I mean, again, going back to the self-awareness piece, you brought some self-awareness to her in that reflection in the recording. And part of that, hopefully your word encouraging some self-awareness too in some of our parenting styles and routines. We don't, we just do. And also because we're tired, we're stressed. We have our own baggage that we're carrying. And sometimes we just parent out of a natural space and energy. And so I think it's, we're hoping that by just pausing and reflecting and bringing some self-awareness, like, oh, maybe I do, I do generally parent this way or the other, right?

Scott Benner: Well, that's a very kind statement from you. It's not anything more than what I would expect and I agree with you. But I do want to say this, and I'm somebody's parent two times over. It's a big responsibility you took on. And in the end, I don't know where Erica's going to stand on my statement, I don't want to hear about your problems. Like, go do the right thing. Like, you said you were going to do this. They're here. go do it now. Like, maybe you don't get to be as rested, or as happy, or whatever the hell else. But you're here now, you did this thing, these kids are here, they deserve a shot. Maybe you gotta swallow hard and, you know, take one for the team sometimes. It's nice to think that we can all be happy, but, I mean, Wouldn't it be cool if we could just set the next group up to be happy and feel fulfilled by the fact that we sent another generation of people on a better path than the one we were on, rather than like, you know, I would've liked to have paid attention, but I needed to get some sleep so I could get some overtime, because I deserve to go on vacation. I haven't been on a goddamn vacation in 10 years. I'm busy parenting two children. It's hard, you know what I mean? So I want to be happy too, but at whose expense at some point? Does that make sense?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, I think being able to what you're wanting them to be healthy, happy and healthy, and you're wanting to be happy and healthy as a parent. And I think the we're not going to be able to be this model perfect parent all the time. And sometimes you are going to need to take a break or sleep or yell a million percent.

Scott Benner: I'm just saying if someone gets screwed, it's you, not them. Like that's that's just got to be like, I mean, if you're making a decision, them, and it's you over them, I gotta tell you, I don't understand your decision. So, you know, it's done now. You had a baby. Here it is. It didn't turn out the way you expected? Too bad. You gotta do the right thing. Keep doing the right thing. Because one day, it all just comes back to you. It really will. Maybe you're not going to have the exact life you wanted when you were 25, but you'll wake up in 10 years and be like, oh my god, I've got this reasonable child who's happy and on a good path. And then you get to be happy too. You have no idea how easy and joyful and There are just more words that need to be attributed to this, but my life with my son is. Like, just how our back and forth is, and it's, maybe it won't pay you today, it's definitely gonna pay you tomorrow, I guess maybe is my bigger point. You might have to sacrifice, maybe I should have just said, you may have to sacrifice a little now for later, but what you get later is more than payback. You know, that's how I see it anyway.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes, yes. Yes, sacrificing now. I think as parents, probably most parents listening to this podcast are feeling that way, that they are sacrificing, that they are working really hard, that they're doing their best. And I think the way to find that balance between the understanding, maybe offering too much leniency or freedom in your child's behavior or choices versus I'm the parent, I'm going to do this." And then trying to find, not being a perfectionist parent, there's so many different things to filter through, is just keep communicating, whether your child is one, two, 10, 20, keeping that line of communication open in terms of, wow, I understand you really don't like this rule. this is still a rule, and I need you to follow it, but tell me how you feel about it. Or, wow, I see that you're working really hard in this area, and I'm really proud of you. And keep it up. We're all practicing, right? We're all practicing to do our best, and to communicate with our children in that space, as we're learning how to parent, just as much as they're learning how to be children. It's hard.

Scott Benner: No, I mean it's incredibly difficult.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: But I hear your point too, like we do need to like, we're all grinding it out, you know, trying to figure it out.

Scott Benner: It's hard for a reason, and that doesn't mean you get to give up in the middle. I don't know, because when you give up, I mean, you're giving them away. You really are. You might not see it that way, but you're gonna at least put it on them to try to figure it out on their own, and then it's a coin flip whether they get it straight as an adult or not. You have a real opportunity to push people off into their life in a valuable direction. Forget the right direction, a valuable direction that might lead them to the things you're hoping for. This is your shot right here. I mean, it's just how it seems to me. I don't know. It's a difficult thing to do and for good reasons, but I mean, don't bemoan the fact that it's hard. You had to expect this. Like, no. And if you didn't, I'm sorry, but here you are. You know, you got to work hard at this. It's just, I don't know. I'm torn sometimes between saying to people, like, here, these are good things to do. I mean, you've gone over so many valuable things here. But in the end, you can't just say, oh, it didn't go my way. Like, you know, there are certain things you could have done to maybe help that. And along the way, I've seen over the years, a lot of people make excuses for why they couldn't do hard things. Now their kids are a train wreck and they're gone I did my best and I and sometimes I look and I go I don't know if you did or not like I was watching Sometimes it didn't look like didn't look like you were trying even let alone your like your real effort here And not to say that you could also be listening going, look, I'm trying as hard as I can, and it's not going right. But to me, that's a good indicator. If you're putting your whole ass into this, like you're really trying, and every day you wake up and it's getting further and further away from a valuable ending, it's a good time to step back and say to yourself, maybe I don't know what I'm doing, right? Because I'm trying as hard as I can. But if you're trying to saw a hole through a wall with a screwdriver, it's going to take forever. And if your ideas aren't getting you to where you want to go, what a perfect time to reach out to someone else and help get an assessment of what your decisions are and maybe how you could make ones that would end up in a different situation. Does that make sense?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes. If a parent is articulating and feeling frustrated, hands in the air, I'm doing the best I can, but gosh, my relationship with my child is not the way I want it to be, or I'm just exhausted, burnt out. I can't keep going. I'm in this giving up space. which we might all feel as parents throughout the day or season. I think that's a great thought to then, that's where the self-awareness piece comes in, of like, gosh, you know what, maybe I'm not perfect, but I also don't want to give up, and I'm going to be kind to myself, and I need to ask for help.

Scott Benner: I need help. Work smarter, not harder sometimes. It's possible you're just not good at this, or whatever we're talking about, like diabetes, or Parenting or anything like if you're putting that much honest effort into something and getting no results You're probably doing the wrong thing and don't even know it. So how do I go find somebody? You know not to bring this person up again but the person I was talking to I was telling that story about earlier is a parent and Making like incredible strides for themselves as a parent I said, where did you learn that given that you grew up in such a terrible situation? boy, she found classes given at local hospitals, by therapists doing pro bono work. She wanted to do a better job for her kid. And even though she didn't know what the hell that looked like, she went and found other people to teach her what that looked like. And I was just very impressed, like really, really impressed. She realized, I don't have the tools. I need somebody to explain to me what to do. And then she had the lack of ego to go do it. The whole thing was very impressive. So anyway, I think we could all, I could do that. There's things I don't know that I have to go to other people and find out about all the time. And I'm sure that happens to you and everyone else. Yeah, of course. But at some point, You can't just keep saying, well, I'm working really hard and that kid's a little asshole. It's obviously their fault. Maybe not. That's all I'm saying. And some, you know, I mean, kids can be, it's hard. Well, it is.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes. And it's so hard. I mean, just that step that you just shared about what this person did. That takes so much effort and energy and courage too, to say, I need help. And then I'm going to spend the time and effort, particularly if I need, you know, maybe you don't have the resources to throw a ton of money and time at it, but she's going to find, you know, resources that she can afford or that is huge and it takes so much effort.

Scott Benner: I kept wondering, where did she get the emotional intelligence to figure this out? And it was all driven by her desire to do better for her kid. If you listen to her episode, it's a slow process. She's not out there killing it. She's incrementally getting into a better and better situation very slowly. The patience of a saint. Her life is not easy. And she doesn't act like she's being burdened she doesn't like complain about it she just gets up right she just hits the rock with the hammer and she makes a little move forward and then she wakes up six months later and things are a little brighter and then she has a terrible backslide puts her head down makes a good decision does it again and she just keeps climbing i was very very impressed with her and um i don't know like it just it's not all about like I don't want to say it's the journey, not the destination, because that sounds like something I would have read in a book in 1978 or something like that. But yeah, you know what I mean? It's the journey, not the destination. It's the way you go about it, not what you go about. And I think that's what you should be trying to teach your kids. It's beyond just do the right thing. I don't know. It's a way of thinking about being alive. And this this lady's got it, man. Somebody put her in a hole and threw cinder blocks over top of her. And she climbed out of that hole and then they pushed her back in and she climbed out of it again. And every time she climbs out of it, she's climbing out to get to that kid. And it's very, very impressive. So I'm sorry I've gotten you off track for your last.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Well, yes, I can't wait to listen to that episode.

Scott Benner: Yeah, it'll be called. I don't know. It's an after dark for sure. Okay. It's, it's such an interesting, I'm sorry, I can't just tell you what it's gonna be called yet. Cause I haven't produced the rest of it out yet, but it's an after dark because her story is so bizarrely like two pieces. Like the, the first half of it is about getting away from abusive family and then an abusive personal relationship. And then we pivot like 45 minutes in and talk about her They're not just sexual like things. It's just that's a lifestyle she lives around this kind of like BDSM lifestyle that she lives in. Right. And I know you think like, well, cause I thought like, how are we going to put these two thoughts together in one thing? But she originally was going to come on just to talk about her lifestyle. But when she got there, just like it seems like she does with the rest of her life, she said, I know I'm coming on for this. But man, I think I'd rather talk about how I got away from some of this abuse in my life." I said, yeah, sure. So we just switched gears and we did the abuse conversation, but then I got to the end and I thought, oh, the lifestyle thing fits the first part of the story, so I introduced it. She's the one I'm talking about who just, she did not see the connection between the two things, but then she very freely and openly pivoted and talked about the lifestyle thing. Just an incredibly impressive person. So, I hope people find it. I don't know what the hell I'm gonna call it, but it's an after dark that follows that. You'll figure it out. I mean, I'm sorry. I'd do a better job naming the episodes if I knew how, but this is what you get from me. So, anyway, but I'm sorry, we were like- Yes, I think we're- We're good?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: We are good. I think we were gonna get into, you know, having that, the importance and significance of having consistent discipline. We were talking about having that balance between discipline, understanding, validation. And I think we'll get into the importance of having consistent consequences and what happens, you know, if we don't do that in our next episode.

Scott Benner: I think in, When we talk about recognizing patterns and breaking cycles, I want to try to remember to bring this up, so I'm going to say it here so it kind of sticks in my head as my memory, but oh my God, I just completely lost my thought. Isn't that amazing?

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Yes.

Scott Benner: I talk too much, Erica. There's so many words bouncing around in my head. It's there. Hold on a second. Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. It's been in my head for 20 minutes.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Recognizing patterns and breaking cycles.

Scott Benner: Oh, hell. Well, call this a teaser. I'll remember for the next one. I for 20 minutes have been trying to, like, remember to say something. And then I didn't make a note because my noteboard is full because my printing is terrible. I ran out of white space because I write like a child. But anyway, it'll come back. It'll come back to me. I really appreciate you doing this with me.

Erika Forsyth, LMFT: Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.

Scott Benner: If you enjoyed this, please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it, and hang on for a second because I'll give you a list of the episodes you may have missed if this is your first time. For now though, let's thank Erika, and remind you to go to erikaforsythe.com, and of course USMed for sponsoring this episode of the Juicebox Podcast. US Med is where my daughter gets her diabetes supplies from, and you could too. usmed.com slash juicebox or call 888-721-1514. Get your free benefits check and get started today. This series began at episode 1049. It's an episode called Parenting, Brainstorming the Series. It's just Erica and I talking through what we want the episodes to be about. So you can kind of hear us plan out the series. But if you want to just jump in, the real episode one is at episode 1054. It's called Parenting, Understanding Parenting Styles. The next one is 1059, Parenting, Building Positive Communication. Then there was episode 1064, Parenting, Self-Care, and Personal Growth for Parents. And then, of course, today, Creating Boundaries and Expectations. And actually, let me tell you a little more about what's coming. The next episode will be called Avoiding Unintended Consequences of Inconsistent Discipline and Over-Involved Parenting. Then after that, Co-Parenting and Unified Fronts. The series won't end there, but I don't have the titles for you at the moment. So that's what's coming up. I hope you're enjoying it. Please share it with somebody. If you are absolutely tell a friend about the juice box podcast. And if you're in an Apple ecosystem, if you're in an iPhone and using Apple podcasts again, please go to the show, go to settings. go to automatic downloads and choose download all available podcasts. It's the last setting at the very bottom. When you check it out, the new operating system is keeping it so that some of you are not getting the episodes of the podcast that you would normally get. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of the juice box podcast.

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#1073 Italian Holiday

Ann Marie's son has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

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The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

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