Scott Benner 4/11/24 Scott Benner 4/11/24

#1172 Perfection vs. Health

Erika Forsyth and Scott discuss the balance between perfection and healthy.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1172 of the Juicebox Podcast.

In this episode of the podcast, Erica Forsythe is back, and we're gonna discuss the balance between perfection and health. Learn more about Erica at Erica forsythe.com Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cosy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo pen. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contour next one.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever sent CGM and implantable six month sensor is what you get with ever since. But you get so much more exceptional and consistent accuracy over six months. And distinct on body vibe alerts when you're higher low on body vibe alerts. You don't even know what that means to you. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Go find out. Eric, I feel like I haven't heard from you in a while. What happened?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:32
It does feel like it's been a while January and February happened. I think it was a disease two months the holidays. Yes. Well, this

Scott Benner 2:39
is better than the last time there was a gap in me hearing from you when you have like some surgery or something like that. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:44
I had my knee replacement. That was a couple months. It was couple two years ago. But we were we didn't talk for a couple of

Scott Benner 2:51
months. Cuz you were busy rehabbing. You have a life or something like that, that I'm not completely aware of. So what I did this time, because we're getting back together, and we finished up the parenting series, which by the way, the last episode of it goes up in a couple of days. Okay, what I did was I sent you for ideas that were sent to me by the moderator of my Facebook group based on things that people had said in the Facebook group. And they're, by the way, literally saying, Hey, would you talk to Erica about this? It wasn't just like a abstract question. It was like you should talk to Eric about this. And it's like, all right. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. So you picked one of the four tell people what you picked. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:33
I thought that we could focus on finding the right balance of, you know, living with a chronic disease. But I think we can hear that with perfectionism and trying to go back and forth between what is it like to try to manage your blood sugar from a perfectionist perspective? And then how can we move to a more balanced way of managing and living it whether you're living with it or the caregiver,

Scott Benner 4:04
right? Do you know while you were talking, I did my best Google foo and I typed in finding balance between perfectionism and chronic illness. And a lot of scholarly articles came back. That interesting that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:17
is, and I did some Googling and I just perpetually impressed by how many articles there are on mental health and diabetes that was not present. Even 10 years ago, you know, as a the prevalence of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 4:33
Nobody was thinking about that. I don't think so. Okay, so what do we have here? We have an every day situation that some days is more in the forefront and some days more in the background, always very important. You know, when you're ignoring it, it's to your detriment. And at the same time, if you run around trying to be perfect about it, it's going to burn you out or make you crazy. Yes. And so what's the middle of that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:59
Yeah. is one of our first few episodes I think we ever recorded was on burnout. And I think we'll definitely touch on that. But I think and we've talked about, you know, the mental load of, of being a parent in general. And I also thought I just realized I'm holding up to Scott, my February 2024 issue of Psychology Today. Oh, look at and what is the title burnout

Scott Benner 5:23
about that burnout? Yeah, that's not specifically about diabetes. No, no, but

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:29
in and I'll probably reference it maybe a few times because I just was reading through it this morning. Talking about you know, the data with parenting with children with chronic illness. And that right currently, as many as 20% of parents identify as feeling burnout but the rates are higher from parents of children with a chronic illness and that's According to research from or re bro Sweden forgive me for the pronunciation but 20% so that that's a that's a significant amount without chronic illness

Scott Benner 6:00
no chronic illness in the life and parents are still one in five parents is like I am I visit them too much.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:08
Yes, gotcha. Yes. And we can talk about those factors. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 6:12
I my brain goes immediately to that there's a utopia in your mind when you get married. That's something you expect and then when you have children, you build a family and then the further it gets away from your image. The more I Gosh, I don't want to say disappointing but maybe the more disappointed you are and then maybe the more difficult that is then to rev up to do the things that you didn't expect you don't I mean, like it's a very simple idea but on the 7000 day in a row that you've made lunch there's a voice in your head that goes through it is gonna be dead soon. Like you're wondering why do I keep making lunch? It just it the repetition is is numbing sometimes if you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you storage evoke hypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G vo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G voc hypo pan is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk. For safety information. Far too often we accept the blood glucose meter that someone hands to us, the doctor reaches into a drawer and goes here and take this one. That is that is that the one you want. Is that accurate, you have no way of knowing. But if you want accuracy, and you want to be confident in the blood glucose readings that you're getting from your meter, you want that contour next gen, it's incredibly easy to get the same meter that Arden uses, just go to contour next one.com/juice box, that's all you have to do. The cons are next gen is easy to use, and highly accurate. It features a smart light that provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels. And of course, Second Chance sampling technology that can help you to save money with fewer wasted strips, contour next one.com/juicebox. And sometimes

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:59
you might not even be aware of the level of either anxiety or burnout that you're feeling. But perhaps you've noticed that you're really irritable, or you're not performing well at work or your relationships are deteriorating. Those are indicators that like you might be feeling the frustration of not wanting to make the lunch for the 7000 a day. Yeah, but you can't quite connect the pieces but then you're screaming at you know your colleagues. Yeah,

Scott Benner 9:25
no, i By the way, I'm not kidding. I picked the big number on purpose because I'm talking 25 years into it. You're like another egg. Okay, I'll make an egg. What and then you go to put the fork to your mouth. This is my life. As soon as my food gets warm, the dog has to go outside. I personally feel like he's waiting for my food to hit the table. Then he goes, Oh, look how happy that guy looks pretty good bark by the door now. So but with your kids, with your spouse. I mean even especially to when you start settling into the norms. And this is just who I am this is just who you are right? And I'm not a bad guy, you're not a bad lady. But I wish you would do this a little differently. And you wish this about me and we've talked about it and it doesn't change, but it's not a deal breaker. But then there it is, every day, you know what I mean? And, and then you have 1000 things going right in your life. And you see the four things that aren't that I think is what puts you into that space. And then you made such a good point a moment ago, you don't necessarily know you're in that space. Right? Yeah, and I think too, when you're, I was gonna say UNGA. Bissen. But I don't know how much interest we're gonna get out to people here. But like, when you're feeling like, you know, unsteady, it is not your first thought. To look at yourself. It's always you always look at what is happening around you these things, these people, they're making me feel this way. You know what I mean? So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:55
yes, are you right? Yeah, the circumstances, any kind of environmental stressor?

Scott Benner 10:59
Yeah, I'd be fine. If it if it wasn't for my dog barking when I when I went to eat every day, or if my husband just wouldn't do this all the time like that. But the truth is, is if you fix that thing, you would just move on to the next thing in your head. Right? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:14
Yes, our brains, our brains are really, they like to hold on to the the negatives and the misses. Yeah, instead of like, we don't fixate on cashed, I really nailed my dinner Bolus.

Scott Benner 11:31
We don't fixate on that, I'm happy to say here and never tell her it's here. But if she finds that, that's fine with me telling you that my wife has a point system in her head that she doesn't know that she has. And it only works in one direction. So every time I do something unfavorable. I lose a point. But if I were to cure cancer, I would not gain 10 points. It would be well, it's about time he cured cancer. I like like, right. Because it's always felt like it's me. It's not just her by the way. I think it's personal relationships. Like it feels like you start with 100 stars, and you lose one and lose one and lose one. But you don't gain them back ever. Like you never, you know, you never give people their flowers, you just go take them from them. And then to kind of bring this to diabetes, I think that same thing can happen. Like that's why I try pointing out like, hey, there's a lot of good that comes from having type one. I know it's not something you would willfully take type one for. But people are often much better at their own health more in tune with their bodies. You know what I mean? Like, yes, that's a big deal. You don't see that in the aggregate maybe. But as it shakes out over your lifetime, you'll notice it. So I don't know. So what do you think like how do we talk to people about understanding that it's going to be difficult, and that these things that we just talked about are kind of drag you backwards and backwards and backwards. But at the same time, there's a lot of pluses happening. And while your health goals are very important and can't be ignored, they also can't be the reason that you give in? No, no, that's a lot, actually. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:13
it is. So we have we have the understanding, we all know the chronic illness of this chronic illness that maybe feels different than other chronic illnesses because of the consistent decision making and mindfulness that we have to have around it and I like that word mindfulness instead of like we're having to worry about it oftentimes I hear others talk about like I'm always worried about my numbers. I'm worried about my my daughter's going high my dad I'm just worried worried worried. And what's driving that is there's fear right? There's the anxiety is being driven by fear of the higher the low.

Scott Benner 13:54
This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since. And ever since is the implantable CGM that last six months ever since cgm.com/juice. Box. Have you ever been running out the door and knocked your CGM off or had somewhere to be and realize that your adhesive was about to fall off? That won't happen with ever since ever since won't get sweaty and slide off, it won't bang into a door jamb and it lasts six months, not just a couple days or a week. The ever since CGM has a silicone based adhesive forged transmitter, which you change every day. So it's not one of those super sticky things. It's designed to stay on your forever and ever, even though we know they don't work sometimes. But that's not the point. Because it's not that kind of adhesive. You shouldn't see any skin irritations so if you've had skin irritations with other products, maybe you should try ever since unique, implantable and accurate so if you're tired of dealing with things falling off, or being too sticky or not sticky enough or not staying on for the life of the sensor, you probably want to check out ever since ever since cgm.com/juicebox, links in the show notes, links at juicebox podcast.com.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:17
And even just changing the language from anxiety, like I'm worried, too, I want to be mindful is reminding yourself reminding your mind and your body of like, okay, we do need to be mindful and intentional. But what I don't want is the motivation to be driven by fear. And I will kind of get through I want to do I think it's important to talk about the perfectionism and how that is develops with sorry, go ahead.

Scott Benner 15:42
Does that stem like, I feel like what I hear you saying is that because there are so many decisions to make, so consistently, that I'm being put into an anxiety inducing situation, every five minutes or every hour or a couple of times a day, even depending on how, you know, well, I have things balance for myself. And so you never really get a chance to what, like go into that. Because I don't have that thing. But my wife talks about it. She said, I talked to my sleep the other night, and I said something very loud. And she described how her adrenaline popped up. And then she couldn't go back to sleep. And I was like, oh my god, like I swear to you, you could bang a garbage can in my bedroom. And I'd be like, what is happening? But that garbage can away? And then I go right back asleep. But that's not that way for everybody. Cuz you hear this all the time, by the way? Yeah. It's a it's a thing in the community that you hear frequently. The idea about like, oh, it's been said that people with type one diabetes make X amount more decisions a day than everybody else. And I've always just thought like, oh, I don't why does that matter? But I think that's because of my personality. I don't think of it that way. But a lot of people can be dragged down by that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:51
Well, and I think in the beginning, everyone, I sure, regardless of personality, or coping mechanisms are going to experience that level of you know, the nervous system is on kind of flares up and you're in fight or flight like trying to make these decisions. I don't know, is one unit gonna help us too? Is it too much? You know, those types of things. So you're in like the cortisol level is pumping pretty consistently in the beginning. And so what we want to address is over time, how can the cortisol levels be reduced by not only just experience, but also mindset of? Does it have to be an 80 to 120 95% of the time? Because I think people do feel like an end, you know, obviously, I'm not a medical doctor. And the ADA recommends 70 to 180 70% of the time, but there really isn't data yet. or long term CGM used to back that up. But yeah, like that's maybe a good window. It's a

Scott Benner 17:57
tough world where you need to make a health decision for a mental health decision, because you are trading one for the other at some point, because I mean, listen, you've had diabetes. A long time i Arden's had it now, for my God. She's how long, almost 18 years? Wow, is that true? Yeah, well, I don't want her blood sugar to be 180 didn't mean like, if it is we get it back, and that's fine. And we don't like we don't like cling to it. But honestly, if you take the mental health out of it, and look at the physical health, that is not a thing you want. And so there it is, again, right. Like and you you mentioned the cortisol, the goal is not to like learn to live in it. The goal is to not have it happen, right? Because learning to live in, it just probably just killed me when I'm 50. But I'll be like, people be like, Oh, my God, he was so cool under pressure, but you're not cool under pressure. If you're still feeling it, you're just making good decisions in a bad situation. It makes sense. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:54
yes. And I often will ask clients who are struggling with this very issue of, you know, feeling like they need to live in his perfect line, or zone or range. But then I said, you know, at what expense, right? Like, is it? Are you living in a heightened state of cortisol pumping, you cannot sleep you cannot function. You're hysterical crying. And I'm not talking about like, the initial grief stages. And that is that is normal. Yeah, in the beginning, it just is and that will subside. But years and years and years of living with this kind of I need to be perfect needs to be perfect, but that is not sustainable. And that's where you get into the burnout phase. Obviously,

Scott Benner 19:40
I didn't mean earlier to say that I wasn't ever like that. I'm just not like that now, but I the beginning. I was crying like every day for three years. By the way, like a couple of years. I would just in the afternoon. I tell people all the time, my wife would come home and be like, Oh, I didn't have a chance to get a shower. Then I'd get in the shower. So I could cry because nobody can hear me that I'd come out and I'd be like, everything's great. But it was And even on the third day of Arden's diagnosis in the hospital, I recognized what a shift this was going to be like to my, my own personal health. And even I remember saying to my wife, do you think we'll get divorced because of this? Like, just a couple of days, because I was extrapolating it out. Yes. And I was like, oh my god, like, she's not what we thought she was now. Right. So you have to re, like, configure that in your mind, we could kill her with the medication. If we don't get rid of the medication, we could kill her. There's going to be the possibility of long term complications, we won't see them while we're happening. So they'll always be in the back of our head, we're gonna disagree, we're going to argue we're going to be short on sleep, we're going to be all jacked up on cortisol, which isn't a thing I talked about 20 years ago, but you knew you were going to be on edge, you know. And I kept thinking, like, Oh, this is how we're going to get divorced. Because it is a coin flip steal to get divorced, by the way. And then it wasn't six weeks later that the endocrinologist said, the incidence of divorce in America is one and two. But if you have a chronically ill child, it goes to two and three. And I was like, Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:14
And when you're in that stressful state, worst case, scenario, thinking can feel real. Like that's like, it's really going to happen.

Scott Benner 21:21
Yeah. Oh, no, it definitely felt like it was gonna happen. I was like, Well, this is I felt like a self fulfilling prophecy. To me, I was like, Well, this is it, all the cards are out on the table, they all point to this, you know, we're going to flip one over one day, and one of us is going to get pissed about something and say something we can't take back. And that's gonna be the end of it. Like it really is what it felt like. But day to day, that same pressure exists if you're managing type one for a child, or if you're an adult living with it, like, When am I going to experience something that just pushes me over an edge? I don't come back from and I just say to myself off, it may once he's eight, I don't care. You know? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:01
Well, I think in that sentence, and question, it is the day to day, which is so different from, we used to have this evaluation every three months with the agency, we did not have this data. And I think there is the shift, just like I know, you know, social media and all this instant, you know, news and numbers like feed like you, if you're using that data to determine your sense of like self worth, there's two pieces, right? There's the data determine, am I going low? Or am I having long term complications? And then you can connect it to I'm a terrible person, or I'm a terrible diabetic, or I'm failing my child. And that's the piece. I mean, there are there are the real truth of having lows and long and highs. And that is real. So I'm not dismissing that. But where we're talking is the is the gray area of what is that data? How is that defining you as a human being? I'm

Scott Benner 23:05
following you completely. Yeah, I know it feels convoluted, but I don't find it to be when you're saying it. You know what I'm is that weird example, ever seen those jumped videos, the scare videos where people like turn a corner and scare a lady and she's like, goes crazy. And then they just do it to her over and over and over again. If you did that, to me, I would punch you, I wouldn't go back and go, I would come forward at you. And so it's personality driven. Like I just had a conversation with someone the other day about their young son 12 years old, a little bit in his hands a little bit in his parents hands, parents, one of the parents has type one diabetes. But the kids they once he was in the AIDS, and then G seven came out, they put the clarity app in with the G seven app, the kids now seeing it sort of like a goal. And he got his a one seen on a six one, the little 12 year old boy, like by himself amazing, right? Because his personality and how he's wired. When you jump scare him, he comes forward. And now you put that same technology in someone's hands, who goes backwards and they go, Oh, look at me. Now I'm being judged every day by my app, this is terrific. And he thought, Oh, this is great. I can battle with this and have a good time like a game. And so you don't know who you are. And again, like we were talking about earlier, as it's happening to you, you can't step out of yourself and go, Oh, I'm just reacting to this wrong. You know, this, this could be really good information for me if I just changed the way I'm perceiving it. And is that right? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:33
it will. And I would as a practical tip, I would if you are looking at a clarity app or any of the apps that are connected to your your meters, I mean, your your meters, your CGM or your pumps. If you're looking at that constantly and looking at the trends or the percentages, and that is too much data for you. And that is leading you to shame based thinking. I would definitely encourage like Those are great information, maybe could look at your clarity report once a week, like when you get your weekly email or pull back a little bit

Scott Benner 25:07
weekly, not daily. Don't make yourself like if you if you're feeling shaken up by it, don't keep doing the thing that makes you feel shaken up about it. Correct? Correct. Isn't that great advice for so many things in life that nobody takes that advice? Like, shouldn't I also not pick up my fan? dewlap? Like, you know, right, like, how do you Yeah, sometimes we feed ourselves the exact thing we, we know, we don't need, and I didn't use feed to like invoke food, but maybe there too. And so like, it's very, I don't know, like, I once said to somebody, it feels like you're happier when things are shaken up. And then as I thought about that person, I think, well, that's how they grew up. Like they grew up in a household that was like, always, like, it felt frenetic right and off kilter, and nothing was ever stable. And so when things get good and stable, that person gets uncomfortable, because that's not what that's not where they, they're comfortable, because they didn't grow up like that. There's so many different ways to get you. So I come into your office, because nobody's going to come in and say, Hey, I need therapy. I'm great under pressure, like so like, so someone comes in and says, Hey, look, I've got all this great data. I know, it's valuable for me, but I can't stop looking at it, as you know, condemnation. Is that a self confidence? Like, where do you start with that when you try to help them? So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:35
I would want to understand how are they perceiving themselves in other areas of their lives in their work? Is there are they you, I think, we talked about the different types of perfectionism, there's the self oriented perfectionism, where you have the expectation that you will perform and perfectly in all areas, and then there's the socially prescribed perfectionism where you think others around you are expecting you to be perfect. So I would look at those two factors in other areas of your life. Do you have that in your relationships, in your work? In your own self image body image? Or is it just with diabetes, oftentimes, you might see in other areas, so you'd start there. And then I would want to understand your what is the self talk going on? So if you are feeling like, gosh, I cannot maintain, I cannot stay in range all the time. And therefore I'm telling myself, I'm not good enough. Again, met medical data aside, we wouldn't be necessarily looking at that. But we'd be looking at that to see how was that prescribing who you are? And how much are you listening to that? And where can we find moments for truth, and grace and compassion? In kind of the broader sense,

Scott Benner 28:01
when I talk to people who are what's the phrase I would use here? realists, right, this is somebody who's not willing to ignore the idea that a 250 blood sugar is bad for me. But they also live in the world where their cortisol has jumped up, and they're having these self doubts, and you know, and all this stuff is happening, they're feeling, you know, they're feeling like everything is a judgment, they're failing that whole thing. So when you feel that way, but you can't let go of the reality of what those numbers mean to your health. That's where I see people get stuck the most. They seem like ping pong balls, like flying back and forth. You know what I mean? Like, I know, I should be kinder to myself, but I'm dying here. But I'm gonna go crazy before I die. Like, like, you don't even like in that. That's, that's the part I feel. When I see people in that space. That's the one I feel the worst for. I think you don't I mean, because yes, because it's not like you're tricking yourself into being upset, you're really upset for a good reason. And the thing that you're trying to avoid, it's real, like so. I mean, it would be no different than if you and I were in this house together. And there was a guy outside with a gun. And I was like, oh, Erica, don't worry about it. You don't I mean, like, and we all feel great for 10 minutes till he came flying through the door with his gun pointed and we're like, oh, you know, we probably should have thought about that. So like, that's how it feels to me, ya know? Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:28
So if the person with the with the 250. We would want to look at okay, what is yes, we all want to be in range and have, you know, an agency under seven. So we that's like the goal. But what are the behaviors that are leading to the the ups and downs? Are they consistent highs? And is it burnout coming from perfectionism? Is it ambivalence which maybe, I guess we're kind of talking about that right now? But no, we'll get into that. it later and is it or is it not knowing how to to manage? Is it the depression a lot? You know, there's no real motivation. And is that due to the diabetes is it also is it in general depression. And so we would want to kind of suss that out, like what is. And it could be a combination of all of those things. So knowing how to do it, having the motivation, not really caring. And those can be a messy trio, right, and then cycle of all impacting to be feeling like crap physically and emotionally, not knowing how to manage,

Scott Benner 30:40
right. So from my perspective, as the person who's raised a two year old to a 20 year old, and I've gone from not knowing what I was doing, being incredibly upset all the time having all the feelings that we've described, to slowly figure it out. And now to getting to a point where, honestly, I don't really know what you could ask me about diabetes, where I wouldn't be like, oh, yeah, just do this. Right. Right, like so. And that took a long time. People get to fast forward a little bit, listen to the podcast, because I had to figure it out. So I could come here and talk about it. You guys just get to hear somebody talk about it and go, Oh, okay, I'll do that. You know, and which is, which is terrific. But what I keep thinking while you're talking is maybe you got to fake it till you make it. Like maybe you have to say to yourself, I know one ad is not great. I know, 250 is way higher than I want to be or 300 My God, like, you know, I mean, like, I know all that's true. But I believe that I'm not going to be there one day. And this is part of my learning process. Like while I'm learning, I can't get 100 on every test. So I'll accept the B plus, I'll accept the C minus as this is where I am. But here's where I'm going. And when I get there, I won't see 250 blood sugars anymore. And I really I want to tell you, between you, me and everybody listening, I do not know the last time Martin's budget has been over 250. Like they didn't You mean, like unless there's like a failure of something, or something like that. But day to day making decisions. We just don't see that. You know, I would call 180 A spike like a like a pretty, like, drastic spike for her. But that's because we know what to do we know when to do it. And we do those things. Yes. Now, back in the day. 250 was a Tuesday. Didn't you mean like, I would have been like 250 We're killing it. Like it's not 350. Let's go Yeah, like this is going our way. But but if I could look back and give my my backward looking advice would be that if you're working towards it, and you're getting good information, and you're taking meaningful steps, you will actually get to a point that I've just described. And honestly, the easier you are yourself, the more grace you give yourself in the moment, the more you're able to say, yeah, it didn't go this way today, but I know I'm getting to it. I think the quicker you'll get there, because now you're spending time learning and and moving forward instead of spending time beating yourself up and woe is me. And we're hand wringing and stuff like that. Does that all make sense? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:14
Because yes, because shame, as we've talked about before, likes to keep you there. Yeah, it does not want it to, to shift. Yeah. So when and, you know, I certainly have fluctuations. And it'll be, you know, whatever number and I will say, oops, like that. That was Miss. Oops, I forgot to Pre-Bolus for dinner tonight because I had 18,000 things going on, right? But I'm gonna I'll catch it up. But that also comes from 34 years of living with it. And knowing how and like all the things, all the factors, right, like protective factors. But I could wear and I certainly have been here in my past, like, oh, my gosh, I'm at this number. I'm in the TOS. And I'm going to this is going to affect me long term. How did I do this I terrible person. And you get stuck there, you almost

Scott Benner 34:14
become a parasite in your own story. And I don't know if How do I mean that? Oh, there are some parasites that go into animals that rewild rewire the animal's brain to poop on its own food so that other animals will eat the food with the parasite in it so that the parasite can spread itself apart. That's an actual thing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:34
That's That's so crazy. I can't even I don't even know why you know that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 34:38
Okay. Well, we all know anybody who's listening now knows why I know this. But so there's a parasite that can go into an animal. It will tell the animal like literally, like crap on the food, because I know other animals will come by and eat the food and then I'll get the spread myself out and go on my journey. You kind of become that in your own life when you have the self doubt hits you. And almost the feeling bad feels normal, like I talked about a minute ago. And so you almost make yourself keep feeling bad. And also, when you're feeling badly about your health, you can do this thing where you like, again, like we talked about earlier, isn't it interesting how this all comes together? And I don't mean for it to, you can point to a doctor and go, it's her fault. She didn't tell me. That doctor I spoke to he could have told me about Pre-Bolus thing, but he didn't. So my blood sugar spice now my fault, therefore, likely my parents fault or Oh, my parents didn't tell me they left me alone too long with it. They didn't stay with me till I figured it out. They stayed with me too long and made me you know, what's the word? When you're now can't help yourself, help us. It's a psychological word that I just lost. It's not going to be important data, they can see me it'll pop, it'll pop up into my head, like 10 minutes after we're done, I'll be gone. But agency agency took away my agency. And so I it was always them doing it's their fault that I don't know how to do it because they were doing it for me. Like no matter what happens to you, that's the thing you're going to blame. That is just such a human thing. Like I mean, you go find a billionaire somewhere right now and be like, Tell me who's screwing you and they're gonna have a list. They're gonna be like, well, here's what's happening to me, like, but I'm like, nothing's happening to you. If a billion dollars, it's all going well, like, like, just try looking at the good things. But we can't do that. Like we never do that. Something's always wrong. It's always something else or someone else's fault. Because that's the only way you can sometimes stop from feeling like this. Like, look what I'm doing. to shame we can we blame? Yeah. Is that Is it a t shirt slogan that I just go to?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:45
Yeah, that's it is it is a common phrase for sure. To avoid

Scott Benner 36:49
the shame. We can blame we can blame. Nice. I'm putting that on a t shirt. Shirt. Can you imagine you walk into the shoe people like what does that say? And then they start going, Oh, I do that on my butt. But that's the point to is. It's that feeling of like, oh, look what I do. When I feel ashamed. I blame other people. It's not what you do. It's what everyone standing on two feet does. That's the fake it till you make it give it away. Because you know, you're headed in the right direction. Part of it like this is just how people's brains work. Like don't get stuck in this part. And I know that's easier said than done. But that is a clue, though. I mean, you're, you're almost willfully keeping yourself here. And eventually, you know, the secret is, most people get out of it eventually. It's how long you're stuck in it. That is really the thing. I think you have more sway over than you think. Yes. Because you know what I mean, I interview a lot of people. And I enjoy talking to a 65 year old person whose story when they were 15, you would go oh, God, if I heard that story while they were 15. I think this person's done. Like they're never getting out of this. But they do. You know, like, I don't know. I don't know what the answer. Obviously, these are just conversations. I don't think there's a hard and fast answer in any of this. But right.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:05
And I think that the sooner and this might be a lifelong process to realize that blaming is a dead end, and you will get stuck in that. Not that conversely, I want to say well, you should just shame yourself because, like, be read that way, right? Like, well, don't blame others. But shame yourself because shame is not a productive, proactive feeling. But we often get stuck in that and I know as parents to care as caregivers, that can be a very common experience. And particularly when you're managing blood sugar's feeling like you're responsible for your child's health. And so it's naturally, you know, feeling like oh my gosh, I mismanaged their blood sugar. Shame on me, now they're gonna have they're gonna lose their their vision.

Scott Benner 38:54
Does it have to be shamed as taking responsibility have to be shame? No, no, no. But that's where, where our minds go. Our minds

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:02
go. Because who? Because then like a parent would say, or I would say if I if I, you know, I don't my children don't have type one. But if I were to make a mistake, that caused them pain in the moment, it was on me because

Scott Benner 39:17
there has to be a reason because that's how black and white we are. That's why everyone comes on. And they they're so adamant to tell that diagnosis story because they want to show you where they got diabetes. This wasn't my fault is Coxsackie virus and by the way, that's true, but they need to say it out loud. And they want to tell other Pete Oh, it's about the reason. Like I need a reason. This is not just about diabetes to people need that's why everybody works in, in black and white. That's why the that's why the ambiguity. Ambiguity is not comfortable to people. Is that right? People like an answer. That's why they want to be on a team you If

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:00
we want to ascribe ascribe a meaning and a reason behind things and not I mean we, you can get stuck in black and white thinking or all or nothing thinking for sure. And where you want to move out of because oftentimes, it's all bad, or it's all on me when the alternative could also be true. But that's hard, it's hard to retrain your brain. And that's where, you know, trading, retraining your neuro pathways and your thought patterns is really significant and helpful. And you can do that and in therapy.

Scott Benner 40:31
So to use another example, oh, my God, I see it, okay. So there are some people who will tell you, it's just diabetes, there's nothing you can do about it, it's gonna go up and down, you're a once he's not really in your control, I've given it up to God or whatever like, like saying you want to do and that makes you comfortable that you're not hurting yourself. And then there's the other, there's an opposite side, say, like a very keto diet person who's taken in 10 carbs a day, and they're barely using any insulin, but they have a lot of stability. They know if they if they try to weight from that edge, that they've found their, their comfort in, and they start letting more carbs in, then they're going to have more variability, then they're not going to know what's going on. So they have to defend their their position, you have to defend that position is the right decision. Because look, it works out well, for me, just like the person on the other side can defend that this isn't on me, it's on, it's on something else. And both of them are trying to avoid feeling like it's their fault if something goes wrong. And on the one side, you get to take credit for the decision you've made, I'm going to eat very low carbon doing this thing. And on the other side, you get to take credit for believing in a different power this in charge of you and not yourself. And I'm in the middle here telling people you have to understand what foods impact you how they impact you how to use your insulin, and that uncertainty is uncomfortable for the edges. But there's also a great amount of people who are very comfortable in that I want the knowledge so I can decide. And these are the three different psychological, like, norms that you find around diabetes. Did I just figure all that out while we were talking? Or am I wrong? Am I making sense? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:17
I think and I think I can almost see you thinking about all of all of the stories. Yeah, that's exactly what all of the comments from the Facebook group and kind of synthesizing

Scott Benner 42:29
Yeah, I just acted like my own AI from it. I just fed everything, did some research, like data collection, I was like, wait, I know what I'm saying. Because I don't by the way, I don't care. If you eat low carb, I think that's terrific. I don't care if you are like, hey, my a one C seven and a half. And I'm happy and this is the best thing to do. If that's you, then that's terrific. But I'm trying to see the psychological side of it. Because then there's also people who are like, look, sometimes I eat low carb because it's easier. And sometimes my blood sugar gets out of whack. And I say, whatever. And like, I don't think there's anything wrong with any of those three perspectives. But understanding where they're coming from. It's just very interesting. Because I've heard these stories, so many different ways, so many different times. And in the end, it's all about it's just all about humans and how they react to things. And we do fall into buckets, to some degree. And I think specifically about this, these are kind of the three buckets. You know, I have found myself recently, as I'm recording those cold wind episodes, and talking more about like how doctors should talk to patients and stuff like that. Every time I get done one of one of those conversations, I have this like enduring thought, almost like when I get done talking to you, I think, I don't know if this is a thing you can ever make black and white to just tell somebody, like follow these steps and you'll feel better. Like that's what I think I believe in the therapy so much because you need somebody to walk you through it. And while you don't even know you're being walked through it, but to this other thing with a cold wind and you see all these people who like became a nurse or became a doctor and are still delivering substandard care and their understanding is not that and when I get to the end of the conversations, I always think to myself, so it's just it's a human problem. And then everything's a human problem on one level or another right like it's our ability or inability or desire or you know, to work hard at something and make an impact or in some of us are just like look, it's just the job I'm going to show up I'm going to do the thing, and I'm gonna leave I don't I'm not trying to make an impact. And you mix that all together in a soup and you get you get society I should have gone to college I might have enjoyed it

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:44
oh gosh. Yes. I mean is it is it. It's human nature. But in going back to kind of these these buckets, it's you know, where do you feel comfortable? Is it is it control? Like we all want to feel like we're in control. And I know we've talked about this before too. look like, but if I don't know how to control and we can't perfectly control diabetes, do we? Can we stay in that gray zone of I'm going to do what kind of works for me, I'm going to make mistakes, and I'm gonna have to move on? Or do I have to live in the rigid? Yeah, like, you know, on the on the rigidity of, it has to be this way. And if it's not, then I'm gonna mess up. And I'm going to feel terrible about myself,

Scott Benner 45:24
all these different decisions are just different levels of you. Giving your brain and the way it works, the freedom to do what it does, like I don't know if that makes sense or not, like if you if I took a low carb person with a four or five, a one C, and I tried to drag them over to the other side and said, Hey, you're not going to worry if your blood sugar goes to 200. They couldn't make sense of that. Like that would not work for them. It's not how their brain works. If I took that person who said, hey, you know, once in a while it is what it is. And I made them eat low carb forever. They couldn't deal with that. And I think the people in the middle, if you took them to either side would say this is too rigid one way or the other. I need a blend, I need gray. Like, you know, that's so interesting. We should rename this episode, watch Scott, understand everything we all got in our first Psych class in our freshman year of college, as if it was a new idea that the world just found, it really is interesting for me, because I've learned about life. The same way I learned about diabetes, like I didn't ask anybody for help. I didn't go to a class, I just picked my way through it. And I didn't go to college like so as I live. I know there are times I see things. And I'm like, I bet you this was described to somebody and like, you know, their sophomore year Psych class, I'm seeing it like, like a newborn, sometimes. You know what I mean? And maybe that's valuable, because it can be explained to all the other people who didn't end up in college, listening to this. Because once you understand how people think, you stop being mad at them. In any mean, you're just like, oh, this is just who they are. Like, it's and I know, it's a simple thing. And people say all the time, but once you really see it when somebody is doing something, and you don't ascribe like bad actor, like vibes to them, like, Oh, they're doing this on purpose, or she's trying to make me feel this way or something like that, once you realize that's not what's going on, life just gets so much easier. And I wonder if diabetes couldn't be the same way?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:24
It makes sense. Yes, you know, you're making me think of, you know, one of my faves Brene Brown, who did research on and data collection on people's stories. And that's how she came up with the, you know, the concept of vulnerability. I mean, she didn't come up with that concept. But how that is really challenging for people to be vulnerable, based on all of the interviews and research she did, and did data collection based on people's stories, which is what you're doing, you know, through the podcast, and the in the group, I

Scott Benner 47:57
just have always felt like, I know, there's more to life than I understand. And I like to wonder what it is, if you ask me my favorite thing to do. I know I've said this before, but like, like going out to the end of my understanding and wondering what's beyond it is one of my favorite things to do. And you can't just do it in your head. Because you only know what you know, you have to talk to other people and listen to other people or, and then instead of judging them think where did that come from? Like, you know, and not be upset about it. Like if it came from a bad place or a good place. It's like, whatever this is where it came from. So I love the after dark episodes sometimes to people who are willing to like, come on and say like, Hey, I'm a heroin addict. Here's my story. Be vulnerable. Yeah, yeah. And and let that out there. And if you're willing to, if you're willing to meet that vulnerability with your own kind of openness, then you can you grow from it. Like I actually found myself thinking it's funny, I was thinking about this in the shower this morning. But I didn't know I was thinking about this. I kept wondering how can I pass on my life's experiences to my kids so that they can fast forward a little bit. But I can't think of a way to do it. Because sharing my experience as a story only goes so far, they actually need to go through this too. This is why we progress so slowly. You know, and maybe that's by design or, or necessary. You know what I mean? Like maybe if we kept leaping forward, we wouldn't be able to readjust fast enough. Oh, maybe that's what we're seeing with social media too. Right? Like technology keeps leaping forward and people can't catch up and then we're all anxious because this isn't the soup we're supposed to be swimming in. That's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:38
right. Yeah. You have to do the work yourself. And while yes, it would be so wonderful if we could say here's exactly how to live a balanced life, living with a chronic illness or caregiving for your child with diabetes. Take a walk go outside like you know, everyone knows all those tools. Take a break do deep breathing, be kind to yourself, but it really is slowing down to understand the process that you are undergoing. And doing the work yourself, which is not an easy answer,

Scott Benner 50:15
right? I almost wonder if it doesn't help you to like, take a large step back and say to yourself, can I really be mad at somebody in 1950, for how they treated women, when that's how it was done. And now that we've moved forward, we see, that's not the way to do that. Like, right, and you can see, like, we've made progress. And I guarantee you that in another 70 years, you'll look back on, you know, 2024, and think, Oh, I can't believe that's what we thought about those things. And then, you know, but then understand that along the way, there were these people's lives that were, you know, finite and shorter, given the grand scheme of things, and that they were stuck in one thinking pattern, and they probably were never gonna get out, or they'd grow a little bit by the time they got to the end. And their growth would rub off on their children a little bit, their children would start slightly ahead of them and grow a little more, and we keep going. And if you can take that idea, and flip it back on your, on your diabetes, then I think that's what I'm saying. I think you're faking it till you make it like you're like, I know, I'm not perfect, but I'm not bad. And I'm trying, and then level up, and then do it again. But don't judge yourself on what happened in 1950. Just go, Okay, three years ago, I didn't know to Pre-Bolus. But I know now. And let's level that up and keep going. And hopefully do that quickly enough that you avoid. You know, I mean, catastrophic, like health concerns, and so on. There's no answer, but that's the answer. It's all in there. Just listen to that over and over again until it makes sense to you. Or go see a therapist. And again, we're gonna call this episode watch Erica, watch Scott. Figure out common ideas. Sometimes when she looks at like, where's Eric and I see each other while we're doing this, it's sometimes I have there's this look on her face that I remember my mom like looking at me like, oh, look, he figured it out.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:09
It's an encouraging expression. Yeah, she's

Scott Benner 52:12
like dummies getting it. I see it happen. No, I know. You don't think that way?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:17
No, it is. It's it's fun to watch. Yeah, the process.

Scott Benner 52:20
I can never tell if you're like, I'm glad I have these conversations with him. Or if you think I should get on a podcast or somebody understands more.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:30
No, it's good stuff.

Scott Benner 52:31
Good. It's excellent. I appreciate doing this with you so much. Like, if I just sat down by myself and tried to think my way through this. I wouldn't get as far as I do as I do when I'm with you. Like I'm actually I'm getting tired. My I'm warm from thinking do you know what I mean by that? Yes. Yeah. Yes. My fingers overheating. It's hard. It was how hard is it not to look at me and think look how thin Scott looks. It's amazing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:59
You really you really have Yeah, I mean, pretty soon. Not gonna see Yeah. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 53:04
that's not going to happen. But, but I'm still it's funny. Like talking about how your brain works. Like, I still like I'm focusing at looking at you because if I look at myself, I start going. I don't even look like myself. Again. You can feel like a you can feel yourself drifting away a little bit. And you can go oh, I should have done this sooner. Or how come I didn't figure this out earlier. But you know, to me like, shame, shame pop. Yeah, I feel ashamed immediately, actually. But I have felt that way. But then turned it. Then I just I just turned it on the pharmaceutical industry. I was like, well, they should have come up with that drug faster. But I did say to my wife the other day. Do you ever get sad that this drug didn't exist sooner? Because we're 50. Now like, what if they would have come out with these jell PS when we were 30? Like, would we have had a different life? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's I'll never know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:55
do you? Because I'll I asked that about CGM 's and automated insulin.

Scott Benner 53:59
I bet you do. Right? Yeah. Oh, I had I had that conversation with someone the other day. Guys had diabetes for like 45 years or something like that. And I asked him, Do you ever wonder about what your life would have been like if you were born now instead of that? And he said he tries not to think about it. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:16
And I think just the question you asked why, why didn't I do this sooner? Of course, as soon as you want it is you're starting to have a healthier mindset of how you view yourself think about others in the world. The old way of thinking shaming still wants to pop back in so it just still was trying to like ah, you should have coulda woulda

Scott Benner 54:34
as I felt it coming. I got in front of it. Because this isn't my fault. Like, I mean, honestly, Erica, I'm not a doctor, quite obviously. Obviously, I'm not educated it anyway, if you've been listening for the last 15 minutes, the GLP has made a big difference. I must have a GLP deficiency because I have not drastically changed how I eat. I had pizza this week. I just want to tell you I bought a pizza, ate at one night, got up the next day, had it for lunch and then had it for dinner a third day and I lost a pound this week. So like, you know, like, I'm not to say that I eat like that all the time. But this week, I wasn't eating very much. And I didn't have a flavor for anything. And I thought, Well, maybe it's better for that eat something than nothing. So I mean, I got this pizza, not the point. The point is, is that even on a GLP, I'll lose a pound this week, having eaten six slices of pizza spread out over three days, if I would have done that, without the GLP, I easily would have gained four or five pounds. And so it's not a thing I couldn't have. I couldn't have done it, the thing didn't exist. It's so funny how my brain was willing to leap over that truth. Like, this was not a thing you could have done. 20 years ago, Scott, this didn't exist 20 years ago, and I went right to why didn't I do this? Like I let go of all the reasons why to blame myself for a second. And I stopped myself. And I said, this isn't my fault. It's Eli, Lilly's fault for not making stuff down sooner, or whatever. I don't know. And I let it go. But there are people who will they get stuck in that pothole right there? Oh, it's my Yes. Yeah, and why?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:03
Why didn't Why didn't I make this change sooner? Why didn't like even you said the Pre-Bolus thing. I mean, I didn't Pre-Bolus For the first 25 years of my diabetes life. And, but I didn't know. And that's okay. And now and so like, when you as soon as you hear yourself going whitened. I coulda shoulda just say, Okay, where are you right now, in this moment, going back and doing a mindful exercise or doing the grounding that we've talked about, and bringing yourself to the present. And you can say, wow, look where I am today? Yeah, like the journey is right now.

Scott Benner 56:38
I talked to a guy the other day, who had had diabetes for over four decades. And he told me that in the last handful of years, I taught him to Pre-Bolus his meals.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:47
I honestly might have heard about people's for the first time through the podcast. Yeah, honestly, it's a crazy,

Scott Benner 56:52
it's such a, it's such a stupid idea. Like, like, like, I used to talk about it like this. I used to say, if I taught you to drive, and you never driven before, and I said, Okay, Eric, as we approach this curve, I only want you to push down on the brake halfway, and then go through the curve. And I said, if you were doing that, and you press down on the brake halfway and saw you were gonna go off the road into a stone, would you just hold the brake down halfway and go, it's what the guy said to do? Or would you push harder and say, I don't want to hit the rock off to the side of a road. But so many times with diabetes, we just go That's what they told us to do. I guess I'll crash. You know what I mean? And then I'll tomorrow I'm gonna get a new car and crash again. And they over and over again. And how much of that is mixed in with, like the godly way we see physicians. So the guy didn't tell me the lady didn't tell me. So it's obviously not a reason or a rule. So I'll just keep doing what they said over and over again. It's fascinating. It really is like, how do you not say to yourself, I give myself insulin at noon, I eat at noon, my blood sugar goes up. What if I gave it to myself? Five minutes before that, or 10 minutes before though? What would have happened? Again, that's me. If you jump scare me, I'm gonna punch you in the face. Like so when I saw the thing happening with the blood sugar's I was like, that's not right. Like, I always think that I always, by the way, I always think that's not right. And they don't know. But that's just, but that's an abundance of, I would call it self confidence. Yeah, I'm sure somebody else would call it narcissism. That's between me and my therapist. And, but, but I trust myself more than other people. But I also had to count on myself growing. And I had some wins along the way. So I had a reason to trust myself. I've made decisions in the past before that have gone well. So I think well, I'll try it again. I bought it worked out the last time. Let me see what Scott brain thinks this time. You don't I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:49
Yeah. I wonder I'm sure. I know. We're totally now in a different topic, but not really. But with the the Pre-Bolus concept. I'm sure you and Jenny have talked about this before. Did did the Pre-Bolus. I mean, I used to Pre-Bolus with regular insulin. And it was like third way to give her injection 30 minutes before we ate. But then when we transitioned to cue melodic fast acting,

Scott Benner 59:14
Jenny blames the naming.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 59:15
Yeah. Is that what it is? Because I feel like then I got the concept just left. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:20
they told us it was fast acting insulin. We stopped talking about the timing of the insulin. Yes, yeah. Okay. And you're old enough to remember that. Yeah. It's just a naming. Again, that's a that's a human mistake. It really is. Like when you listen to that Grand Rounds series that she and I are making. Everything that a doctor does that throws you on the wrong path is is usually a communication error. Just not knowing how to talk about things and see the implications of the words you're using. Super simple. I mean, nobody knows how to talk. So it's not super simple. Yeah, diagnosing it is simple. Like I see what's happening. I don't know how to get somebody to fix it. I also don't know how you It's funny because a scientist called it fast acting insulin, or faster acting insulin,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:05
because it was faster than that regular. Yeah, yeah. But again,

Scott Benner 1:00:09
a person who you should not put in charge of artistic endeavors. Like you don't you mean, like you don't ask a structural engineer to write a poem, because their brain doesn't work that way. So you should get the structural engineer to build the bridge, and then have an artist come in and call it something. Yeah, right. And because they know how to talk to people, and I know how to talk to people I don't like and I have enough understanding of diabetes, that I can take that understanding and put it into words that you can hear and pick up and use somewhere else. I think that's my whole value to this is that I had to teach myself diabetes because I couldn't let my daughter be unwell. And I'm a good storyteller. Like, I know how to talk. And it's not on purpose. Like I swear to you, here, I'm going to tell everybody something that will let them go. I sent you four topics. And I said, ladies choice. That was the extent of our preparation for today. Okay. And then you texted me a half an hour before going, Oh, I forgot to tell you, this is the thing I chose. I didn't read what you sent me. So when we popped on and started talking about it, as you hear me warming up in the first couple of minutes, it's the first time I've considered this today. So and then I start accessing all the stories I've heard on the podcast, and then trying to work my way through it. That's all you're hearing is, that's what you just heard for the last hour and Erica artfully pointing me at the truth about how people's minds work to keep me on that path, which is I'm assuming what you? Yeah. Which was, I'm assuming what you would do if you were my therapist, this you would keep going, Hey, look up, dummy. Keep walking in this direction. You only go back to the theme and the goal right now it's beautiful. Anyway, if anybody heard this and doesn't believe in therapy, they you're not paying attention. Erica forsyth.com. What are your states that you can help people remotely? California?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:04
Oregon, Utah, Florida and Vermont. Oh, Vermont. Sticking? Yes. Vermont sticking nicer now? Yes. Good. Good. Good. And

Scott Benner 1:02:14
if you live local to Erica, she will tell you where she's at. And you can sit with her and do this.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:18
Yes, I'm leaving office in Pasadena in person, but also virtual as well. Again,

Scott Benner 1:02:25
Erica forsyth.com. If you don't see what she did this hour with me and think that could help me to again, I don't think you're paying attention because I couldn't have put these thoughts together without you today.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:37
So Wow. Thank you, Scott. Seriously, nice compliment.

Scott Benner 1:02:42
Oh, hurricane. You know, I've had a couple of therapists on here before I landed on you. You're the right one. Don't you worry. I saw what was going on. I paid attention. I was like, yeah, good conversation, but not right for me. And then I pick through and I was like, Erica works for me. And you know, the big, I'll let you go. But the first reason that I thought that about you is that if I tried to generalize you wouldn't let me when we were first together. Like I would try to generalize think to be entertaining, and you'd be like, No, I was like, Oh, she pushed it back for we're trying to have fun here. And then I was like, Oh, I remember. I was like, she'll be good to talk to you about this stuff. So anyway, I love you. So thank you very much. Oh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:21
thanks, God. I appreciate that. Bye. Oh, gosh.

Scott Benner 1:03:26
There you go. That's perfectly a blessing. Don't please.

I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Get the only implantable sensor for long term wear get ever since. A huge thanks to the contour next gen blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more and get started today at contour next one.com/juice box. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chico Capo pen at G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The diabetes variable series from the Juicebox Podcast goes over all the little things that affect your diabetes that you might not think about true Travel and exercise the hydration and even trampolines. juicebox podcast.com Go up in the menu and click on diabetes variables. Lots of people with autoimmune seem to have trouble with their thyroid. And that's why I've made the defining thyroid series juicebox podcast.com Click on defining thyroid the menu to find out more. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrongwayrecording.com

#1171 Pump and CGM Overview - Part 2

Scott and Jenny look at the pumps and CGMs available on the market. Part II

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1171 of the Juicebox Podcast.

This is part two of my pump and CGM overview Part one is it episode 1166. Today Jenny Smith and I are going to be talking more about CGM sump pumps overviewing everything that we could find on the internet to talk about nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, please do me a favor and go to T one D exchange.org/juicebox. and complete the survey. Every time you do that. You're helping with type one research, you're supporting the show and you might just be helping yourself T one D exchange.org/juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. head there now to learn more about ag one. It's vegan friendly, gluten free, dairy free, non GMO, no sugar added no artificial sweeteners. And when you make your first order with my link, you're going to get a G one and a welcome kit that includes a shaker scoop and canister. You're also going to get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with that first order at drink a G one.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom dexcom.com/juice box get the brand new Dexcom G seven with my link and get started today. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing people together to redefine what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Jalen, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 14. He's 29. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. And then later at the end of this episode, you can hear my entire conversation with Jalen to hear more stories with Medtronic champions. Go to Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box or search the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. Jennifer, we are back to finish up our insulin pump conversation part two, yay. And we're gonna go over some CGM at the end. So far we've talked about manual pumps, we went over Omnipod five, Medtronic is offering and tandem control IQ in the x two. As far as automated today we're going to talk about I let and then the new mobi pump, again from tandem. So let's start with eyelet. Actually, yay, cool. Tube pump. Correct, right. But the way that it wants to work is, I would say completely different from all the other automated systems that are currently available. That's fair, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:35
That is 100% Fair, automated tubed. But definitely automated very differently than any of the other systems. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:46
And here's why. It doesn't really want you to be involved. That's a good way to describe it. I mean, right? It doesn't want you to be and that's the idea here is beta bionics made a pump, in my opinion, like I'm not speaking for them. I did interview Ed from beta bionics for a couple of hours when it first came out. And the vibe I got from them was there are people out there who are going to use DIY algorithms, and they are going to like, they are going to get their a one season to the low fives. They're not going to see an excursion above 140. These people are like, they're dialed in. Right? Right. And there's people who will use other automated systems have nice a one sees and the six is like they'll put some effort into it here and there. We want to make an automated system. I felt like he was saying for people who do not want to be involved in their diabetes, or people who doesn't matter how much they've tried. They just can't find success. And so we wanted to help these people who are running around with 910 11. I know some people find it hard to believe there's people running around with 12 and 13. A one sees Right, right? We want to put a thing on them gives them an A one seat in the seven. Yeah, and I thought that was really cool. So tell me how it works. because it's pretty basic, right? It

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:02
is pretty basic. And I would also say that while it's a pump that doesn't really want the user to do much, the user still clearly has to do some things. I mean, it's not going to fill the insulin or pop the tubing, you know, yeah, the infusion site. So there's obviously those basic things, call

Scott Benner 5:21
your brother on his birthday.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:25
or fancy things for you that you still do have to acknowledge when you're eating. The nice thing is that there's no calculation to what you're eating. And for, you know, that population who is really looking for some assistance in navigating because they just, they can't do what the do it yourselfers they're doing? Are those on other automated systems that can tweak and adjust and really are into paying more attention, I guess. Yeah. This system really is just like, hey, tell me when you're going to eat food? And how much? Is it about the same as you would normally eat your your standard meal size? Is it less than that thinking like snack size, so to speak? Or is it like you're sitting down to the Super Bowl meal? Right? If

Scott Benner 6:16
I recall the way he explained it to me, it was you tell the pump? This is breakfast, lunch or dinner? Correct? And then you tell it this is a average smaller than average or larger than average? Person

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:30
normal for you less than normal, larger than normal. Exactly.

Scott Benner 6:34
And when you set the pump up, you tell it how much you weigh. And that's it. Correct? Right? Yeah. So you don't have a carb ratio, Basal rates, correction factors. And you don't have to count carbs.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:48
Correct. There is no carbohydrate counting. I do think though, from what I see, as far as what the system could do better for you as it adapts and adjusts those insulin delivery kind of amounts, is if you at least have an idea of approximately how many carbs are at your average meal, you again, individually, not the average person, but you, let's say you've got a big appetite, or you have a lot of energy expenditure. And your average meal is pretty big, big, not for you. But big. You know, according to others, maybe it's 60 grams of carb is your average meal. If you at least have an idea of about how much you're eating, it gives you an A an easier idea of navigating this is definitely smaller than I usually eat, or this is much more than I would usually eat. So yeah,

Scott Benner 7:41
I'm gonna have somebody I mean, eventually I'll find somebody that's using the pump that be on the show, but it's pretty new still, you know, I don't think I've bumped into five people who are say they're using it. I also can't make a correction with it, right? Like, I can't look at my blood sugar at 250. And go I really wish I had more insulin. It's just doing what it's directions.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:59
Yep, no calculating bowls, that Bolus is on the user's part. That's all the pumps sort of driven, adjusted kind of right. doses, right? Yeah,

Scott Benner 8:09
this is a pump that I think for I think they're a segment of people who are going to hear about it and think I do not want that. I want control. I want to do what I you know, I don't want a seven a one se right. And I think there are probably more people who are going to hear it and go, are you kidding me? Like Give me that? Yes. You know, like, so nothing's for everybody. This one's more specifically, obviously not for one segment of people. Do you know what I mean? Like there's like, right, I can make an argument for x two for Medtronic for Omnipod. Five for anybody. I could say, Hey, here's why this would help you. Right? And here's reasons where it won't help you. This one's more cut and dry. I think it's more about your goals. And or the ability you have to do this because I think I said earlier people who don't want to like try as hard but I don't think that's it. Like I think it's whatever I'm trying as hard as I can I just don't get it. Right. You don't you mean? Like I never figure out diabetes? What am I damn to live forever with a 12 a one seat because I can't figure this out. Right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:09
Absolutely. Or that you don't have somebody there assisting in teaching you what you could do a little bit better, right? And I think a system like this also, because it is body weight initially driven in what it starts with in insulin delivery amounts. Yeah. In general, again, along with meal entry being small, medium, large kind of entries thing. Most people, regardless of their education level, are going to very easily be able to determine Yeah, well this is a normal meal.

Scott Benner 9:44
I mean, the top of my head, you're sending a kid off to college and you think they are not going to take care of themselves. This seems like a pretty good idea. They're like that kind of stuff. Now, I want to be clear, I don't have trouble with it. And I'm not judging anybody. But if you told me my daughter is a once he was seven and a half I'd be like, what are we doing wrong? I gotta fix. So you know, that's the consideration, right? Beta bionics.com. It's the pumps called islet. It's a very simple marketing plan, which tells you how simple the pump is. The front page just says the islet is an automated insulin delivery system that reduces the need to make decisions about your diabetes management because it makes the decisions for you. There's no more carb counting correction factors, carb ratios, preset Basal rates or any other settings that might be overwhelming about other insulin delivery devices. And that's it, right? Yeah, let just needs one number, your weight at the end of the website. Right. So you know, there

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:37
are some minor adjustables in terms of, it's important

Scott Benner 10:40
to me that the supplements I take are of the highest quality and that's why for the last few years, I've been drinking ag one. Unlike many supplement brands, ag one is researched and developed by an in house team of scientists, doctors and nutritionists with decades of experience in their respective fields. I know I can trust what's in every scoop of ag one because it is tested for 950 contaminants and banned substances while the industry standard typically only tests for 10. Taking care of my health shouldn't be complicated. And ag one simplifies this by covering my nutritional bases and setting myself up for success in just 60 seconds. I love that every scoop of ag one is full of quality ingredients like Folate, Magnesium, and ashwagandha. For stress support. I've partnered with ag one for so long because they make such a high quality product that I genuinely look forward to drinking every day. So if you want to replace your multivitamin, and more start with a G one, try ag one and get a free one year supply of vitamin d3 k two and five free ag one travel packs with your first subscription at drink a G one.com/juice. box that's drink ag one.com/juice box check it out. Today's episode of the podcast is sponsored by Dexcom. And I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you a little bit about the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter wears the Dexcom G seven the Dexcom G seven is small. It is accurate and it is easy to use and wear. Arden has been wearing a Dexcom g7 Since almost day one of when they came out, and she's having a fantastic experience with it. We love the G six but man is the g7 small the profile so much closer to your body, the weight, you can't really feel it. And that's coming from me. And I've worn one. I've worn a G six I've worn a g7 I found both of the experiences to be lovely. But my gosh is that g7 Tiny and the accuracy has been fantastic. Arden's a onesies are right where we expect them to be. And we actually use the Dexcom clarity app to keep track of those things. That app is built right in to Arden's Dexcom G seven app on her iPhone. Oh, did you not know about that, you can use an iPhone or an Android device to see your Dexcom data. If you have a compatible phone, your Dexcom goes right to the Dexcom app, you don't have to carry the receiver. But if you don't want to use the phone, that's fine. Use the Dexcom receiver, it's up to you. Choice is yours with Dexcom dexcom.com/juicebox.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:19
Containing things a little bit more or giving it a little bit more wiggle room and it's really targets right. Those there are some adjustable targets within the pump in order for what it's aiming for. Because it does work with CGM, obviously, as an automated kind of algorithm. Yeah, the one place I would say that, in looking at all automated types of systems and even manual systems, I think they all fall short in terms of exercise, and navigating the right adjustment. I think this system by far has some things that somebody really needs to sit down if they do exercise or they're going to start to do some type of exercise. They really need to sit down with somebody who knows the system and knows how it works in that capacity to give some starting sort of adjustments, whether it's taking no Bolus or taking a small snack that you don't cover or tell the system about or even, you know, I mean, I hesitate to say disconnecting, but honestly, if sometimes we're a system like this, there's no exercise setting.

Scott Benner 14:25
So is this coming from like conversations you've had with people using it? Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna guess that because it's so in specific about what it's doing to some degree. If you're a fairly sedentary person for 20 hours a day and then go for a run, you're gonna get low or a person who just like works out on the weekends or something like that. It's no no different but more aggressive than when you hear people talk about like, Oh, my kid, you know, just goes to school Monday through Friday. They get up they walk, they sit down. That's it. Then on the weekends, soccer practice. Oh my god, we're flooding lows all weekend. But we're on on we're on a podcast, I don't understand why that's happening, right happening because for five days in a row, the pumps been helping a sedentary child. Now all the sudden you're running around, right. But you think your experience this is a little I don't want to say worse but a little bigger of an issue. Correct?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:18
Yes, that's yeah, I wouldn't say worse. But I would say there are definite differences in how to accommodate for planned exercise and planned being the optimal word for this system. Not all of them, it works better if you're planning something and you can adjust ahead of time. But this definitely, you have to have an idea that activity is coming, or just plan to feed insulin, right? Because you haven't adjusted people

Scott Benner 15:43
don't. Not everybody, but a lot of people don't think about activity as a variable for their diabetes, right? And, you know, you should, you should think of, you know, if you're steadily active all week long, at one activity level, you're going to see, you know, less insulin resistance, you know, your insulin is going to work better, right. And I do think it's important to bring up because in the discussions of these, like different pumps, if you hear any one of them and think oh I Delic I got it. That's the right one you miss heard, because they all have speed bumps, you don't I mean, like there's nothing's perfect at this point, right? I'm going to do a conversation about you know, loop and Iaps and stuff like that, at some point down the road to kind of bundle on to this, but they're not perfect. No, this morning I Arden's like I'm sleeping in. I have one day off, she's had a head cold at school, like forever. She's on Iaps right now, I had to wake her up at 30 in the morning, I'm like, Hey, you're low. Right? You know, like so. And it tried. I saw it took her basil away for two hours it tried, but it is what it is. Okay, so I left beta bionics. Now, the tandem. Moby is a Yeah, like a brand new pump. That This one's interesting. I don't know a lot about patent law. This one makes me think we wanted it to be like an omni pod, but we couldn't make it to Bliss. So we put out a really short piece of doing on it. I don't I don't know. Like this one baffles me a little bit. You tell me? Where's the use case for this? Because it's still a tube pump.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:20
It is a tube pump? And I think that it fills the need for it. How many people have you heard comment, even in your online community, right? About, I love my Omni pad. But I really wish there was a time that I could disconnect it, and then just put it back on without restarting a new one without restarting a new one without losing all of that insulin without dealing with a new pod start site, etc, etc. This is where that fits the bill. And quite honestly, the little device is smaller than a pod.

Scott Benner 17:52
Oh, it's teeny. I'm looking at it here. Tiny. I mean, it's a marketing picture. But it's a little bigger than maybe four and a half, like flat quarters laid together. Like maybe if you put four quarters and a little like, I mean, like it's east, the west, north to south. I don't know about the thickness of it. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:09
the thickness of it. If I remember correctly, I saw I've seen it only in like, handheld person, once. It is not as thick as a pod, if I remember correctly. Yeah. And it is definitely like shorter from top of pod to bottom of pod it is definitely shorter than a pod is it holds 200 units of insulin. So for those, I mean, if we're talking about best use versus consider maybe something else, or how could I use this, again, 200 units of insulin for somebody who really is going through heavy, heavy doses of insulin, It either means you're going to change the reservoir more often, right? Or you choose something that's got a bigger reservoir to it. I mean, pods themselves only hold 202

Scott Benner 18:54
I'm looking at the marketing here for the movie. It's interesting. Basically, they're saying look slip in your pocket. So it's still a pump, but it's really teeny tiny. Or they say we have like an adhesive patch that you can slap on it almost looks like a like it's a patch that goes on your skin that then it seems like it has like a loop on it. And then you would like slide it into the you know, I'm saying

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:14
it's like a pocket almost, if you imagine Omnipod with Omnipod adhesive, right? And instead of seeing the pod just sort of wobbly on the top of that adhesive. This actually has almost like a little like a

Scott Benner 19:29
wrapper. It's another piece of like, of that fabric that goes over top of it. Yeah, exactly. It reminds me of you know the men's wallets now that are metal and the cards slide into them. But then there's a rubber strap over to put your cash under. Yes, my husband has one. And I think that's that's what it reminds me of like, like visually. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:48
absolutely. I think the other nice thing as you said it could be put in a pocket, right, that allows you to actually have longer tubing. I mean, it does have really really teeny tiny short tubing if you Want to wear it with that patch piece like we were just talking about? Again, it offers the ability to wear it on the back of your arm, if you would like, you know, with a little navigation and maybe taping down the tubing or whatever to keep it from sort of flopping around. But the other really great thing that is a big difference between it and the only other pod, there is a Bolus button on the Mobi device. So if you do not have your phone, which drives the typical delivery and boluses, and whatever else you're going to do with it, the Bolus button right on the Mobi allows you to have a preset amount that gets delivered with the tap of that button. And it offers you the ability to also see that the delivery has gone through with vibration, which is it's nice, it's just a confirmatory, hey, this definitely worked it went through you don't have to worry

Scott Benner 20:52
it runs control IQ to correct okay, so you can run control IQ with it, there's a button on it that you can say, hey, I want that button to do two units and like pre program it if you want to give yourself like a turbo boost of insulin, yes, but you need the phone to run the algorithm and that otherwise. This episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. And now we're going to hear from Medtronic champion Jalen.

Speaker 1 21:20
I was going straight into high school. So it was a summer, getting into high school was that particularly difficult, unimaginable, you know, I missed my entire summer. So I went, I was going to a brand new school, I was around a bunch of new people that I had not been going to school with. So it was alright, trying to balance that while also explaining to people what type one diabetes was, my hometown did not have an endocrinologist. So I was traveling over an hour to the nearest endocrinologist for children. So you know, I outside of that I didn't have any type of support in my hometown. Did

Scott Benner 21:54
you try to explain to people or did you find it easier just to stay private?

Speaker 1 21:59
I honestly I just held back I didn't really like talking about it. It was just it felt like it was just an repeating record where I was saying things and people weren't understanding it. And I also was still in the process of learning it. So I just kept it to myself didn't really talk about it.

Scott Benner 22:13
Did you eventually find people in real life that you could confide in,

Speaker 1 22:18
I never really got the experience until after getting to college. And then once I graduated college, it's all I see, you know, you can easily search Medtronic champions, you see people that pop up, and you're like, wow, look at all this content. And I think that's something that motivates me started embracing more, you know, how I'm able to type one diabetes? To hear

Scott Benner 22:39
Jay Lin's entire conversation stay till the very end, Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box to hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:50
The algorithm, that's the interesting thing. So a lot of people have kind of asked if, well, what happens if my phone dies? Right? Yeah, Does that just mean that I'm not getting anything or what happens and really, the algorithm continues to deliver with communication to with the CGM, from what I understand. So the nice thing is that while the phone app is really your, your control device, 100% extended Bolus is if you're using it in manual mode, you'd only be able to use a temporary basil, etc. But that is a nice piece to know that the system keeps running for you. Right? It's

Scott Benner 23:30
funny, I see the value of each one of these as I look at Yes, like I really do. I think a downside to any device I have to be honest, is if you have to charge it. That's one of the things that always throws me off a little bit like so this movie looks like it has to be it's wireless charging, but you're still gonna flop it on a charger at some point. Yes, yeah, you're on the pods not gonna run out of battery in the three days that you're using it. So no, no. I mean, it's there's give and take, right? Like with all of these, right? This is an interesting one though. It really is. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 23:58
it is. I actually I just got an email from a trainer in this area to kind of get fully trained on it. And I'm really excited. I kind of like to give it a try personally, because I think it's a just an interesting new piece on the market of

Scott Benner 24:15
choice. Yeah. Jenny's not trying this until it runs some do it yourself out. I will tell you this. I know Arden really well. And obviously Arden has been wearing it. I think I misspoke in the first half of it. Arden was diagnosed when she was two she started wearing a pump when she was four and an omni pod. So when she was two it was 2006 which means she was starting to wear on the pot, I think in 2008. Anyway, neither here nor there. But if I showed this to Arden right now and explained all the good parts about it, she'd see the piece of tubing on it and go I am not interested in this. Yeah, like it's fascinating. What happens to some people after you've worn a tubeless insulin pump? Yeah, you're just like, I don't care what the other thing does. I don't even want to hear about it like 10 First thing, you know,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 25:00
I think that too, this is really, while their typical T slim x two can be worn under the clothes, and now it's controllable by the app. So you technically don't really have to pull the pump out. It's still a piece to navigate. Where do I clip the pump? Where do I put it? Where do I hide it under my clothing? And in this case, I mean, there are a lot of people who wear their pump site on very different parts of their body than what are technically recommended by the pump companies. Right? Kind of the upper area of the back, I know there are women and even men who wear it like on their chest or kind of their upper breast tissue, right? This it's another alternative to wearing something completely underneath clothing that you don't really even have tubing to deal with hanging out well

Scott Benner 25:49
that I can see for sure. Like, yes, there's tubing on it. But it looks like you could do a short piece to the infusion set and then use the tape thing to tape it to yourself. And then you kind of have that functionality of being tubeless even though it's not quite

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:02
the shortest tubing is five inches. Yeah, okay. No,

Scott Benner 26:05
yeah. Jenny, I almost said that's a good size. Why would you make fun to fight and I'm just kidding. But what I think about is back before all the bluetooth headphones, right? That you know, I mean, we're all on our phones, by the way, you should all all day long be listening to the podcast on your phone. But back then there used to be, you'd have wired headphones, they kind of hook in your ears, the wire would go to your phone, and then you'd take your pants off in a bathroom sit down the wire would yank your your iPod out of your pants and go bouncing across the bus station floor. Not that this has ever happened to me. And I'm gonna say that's very specific, very specific. Yeah. And then you find yourself saying to a man that you don't know. Could you kick that back here, please. And anyway, that's the one thing I worried about when I saw Oh, you can put it in your pocket. It's neat. But what happens when the distance I stopped thinking about it, you know what I mean? But again, I'm guarantee and people are gonna use this pump, people are gonna love it. Yeah, I think people love control IQ. And a lot of people have a lot of success with it. So it's another

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:11
another group, probably that may do better with something like this is maybe a group that has some dexterity types of issues, because there really is a little bit less fiddling, right? If anybody takes a peek online, you can actually see that the reservoir in this is clear. You can see into it, you can tell if there are bubbles there, or any issues. So that makes it from a visibility. That's a big difference compared to the T slim pump, where the reservoir is entirely enclosed. You can't tell what's happening within the reservoir. Right? So and the field process is really I've seen the field process only once. It's pretty darn easy.

Scott Benner 27:55
So So you got options. You got Omnipod five, Medtronic 670 G is that the latest 177 DJ Jesus with a numbering system seven ad. Boy, if you got me into a marketing meeting at Medtronic, the first thing I would do is say stop using numbers. It sounds so similar to each other. Tandem control like you on the X two, you're gonna have tandem control IQ on the movi then the AI let and then we don't have enough to say about it right now, because it's not nearly available. But Roche is trying to get a pump into the market, right? accucheck solo, is that right? So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:32
Correct. Although that will not be unless there's something changing or something updated. There's no automation or CGM. That's gonna

Scott Benner 28:42
be one of the clicky pumps, like we talked about in the manual thing. And then they have the accucheck combo. That's a tube pump. But is that available right now?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:51
The Accu check combo was here, or is

Scott Benner 28:55
this am I looking at the wrong website? Might be? Hold on a second. Let me look, let me make sure I'm saying the right thing. Roche pump. I think the combo is there's an article finally wrote back in the insulin pump market. That's a that's a hurtful one from from a from an investor.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 29:14
Yeah. So while ago because right?

Scott Benner 29:17
They have something they're working on, but it's nowhere near like you're not going to use it know, in the next couple of years. Okay, no. All right. So we'll see if they actually get back to that or not, but the FDA did approve the accucheck solo tubeless patch pump, which is just like those other pumps we talked about where you push a button and you get a designated amount of insulin. I have it here dispose solo, correct and he's a pump holder and replaced every three days. And he's of infusion cannula. A disposable 200 unit reservoir replaces every four days a reusable pump bass. Okay, so you put the bass on and you click the thing on top of it. It does come with that handheld diabetes manager. Quick Bolus button transmitter errant reservoir, which you said you thought was important. Oh, okay. Yeah. So anyway, if that's what you're looking for, you're not looking for automation. You could check those out. Let's go over CGM is at the end here. Awesome. All right. So there's Dexcom. There's freestyle. And there's ever since. Correct? Oh, that's all right. Three for people using insulin. Two, three. Yeah. The other ones are like, bro science guys and like biohackers and stuff like that. Right? Okay, bro science guys.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:34
Are people who want to monitor their metrics don't have diabetes.

Scott Benner 30:38
Very nice way of saying it. I think of guys with like so many abs. They look like they're moving on to their sides.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:43
What's really funny about So years ago, 2006, I think is when I first started wearing a CGM. And I had one that's not even on the market anymore. It was called the Navigator. Yes. And I loved it. It was fantastic. And I had it on my arm and I was at the gym, I was running on the treadmill. And I guy next to me, I could tell he kept like looking over at my arm. Like, after I finished, I went over and I was like, do you do have questions? Or something, you know? And he said, I'm just curious if that's one of those, those new heart rate monitors, you know, kind of evaluate your your metrics, again, kind of devices. And I was like, yeah, no, I probably wouldn't be wearing that if I didn't have to. I said, this manages and, you know, looks at my blood sugar, blah, blah. And he's like, Oh, that's, that's really it. He was interested, obviously. But yes, I think a lot of people used to question and now clearly don't

Scott Benner 31:43
Gotcha. All right. So before we start here, let me just say that Dexcom and ever since our advertisers on the podcast, so I should say that out loud. And I should say to freestyle, what are you waiting for? But so here's what we have. I'm gonna start with ever since because it's so much different than the others. Okay, so ever since is an implantable CGM? Yes, that lasts six months. And so you'll need to a year Correct. You go into a doctor's office. I've seen the procedure happen on video, I had to watch it to become like an advertiser. It takes literally five minutes. It seems like the tiny little like, they have a tool they give the doctor it makes a little like barely an incision, they slipped the thing underneath. Butterfly bandage holds it closed. You're on your way. Yep. Then this thing, then you were a trance. What do they call it?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 32:34
A smart it's a smart transmitter transmitter

Scott Benner 32:36
overtop of it. Right? But it's interesting. It has sort of a silicone adhesive. So you're not dealing with those harsh adhesives because you change it every day. In fairness, it needs to be calibrated twice a day for like the first. I don't want to say this wrong, but like for the first few weeks, twice a day. And then after that once a day you calibrate today, right? Yep, the sensors under your skin. And then you can set high and low alarms. And it vibrates to tell you your higher low when you get. That's kind of awesome. It's called on body vibe. Distinct on body vibe alerts when higher low. Additionally, ever since is the only CGM with on body vibrations to alert users glucose fluctuations, which is beneficial while sleeping driving or otherwise unable to check mobile apps devices. Yeah, smart transmitter vibration patterns, low glucose alert three vibes appears in yellow, high glucose level one vibe. It's pretty cool, man. I mean, like, it's under your skin. If you you know you're going to your prom one day, and you're like, I don't want to deal with this today. You just take it off, throw it on the charger and wait, come back and pop it back on again. It does not currently pair with any automated pumps. Correct? And I don't know. I mean, they're a publicly traded company. They don't usually talk about stuff like this. I think they're interested in that happening. I don't know where they are in that process, when or

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:00
where, right. And they've been I mean, they've been around for a really long time. Yeah, already

Scott Benner 34:05
passed through a couple of hands, didn't it? Before a Sensia grabbed them. And there's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:10
been a lot of change. But the great thing is that they've I think they've started to gain some ground, which is a good thing, especially considering the fact of changing and people complain all the time about, oh, it's that day that I have to change everything else. Right? This is really just as you said, you go in, you get it popped under the skin, when it's done, you can get the sensor removed and pop in a new one and you go forward

Scott Benner 34:38
and the accuracy is good. I mean, it's not it's not wildly different than what anybody else is offering. So I mean, I know they all in their marketing are trying to like they talk about their margin and stuff like that. And they try to get like, you know, real specific but if you look at those, they're all pretty they're all

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:53
within a range of and you know, like anybody again, you'll see people comment all the time. This one didn't work for me. but this one worked really well for me. I mean, I've got several people who Dexcom really didn't work the greatest for them in terms of accuracy or reliability. And they chose to go with the Libra. And that one works really well for them. So

Scott Benner 35:14
I just spoke to a woman online today who tried Libra and tried Dexcom. And she's like, it feels like my kids body rejects them at like day six, like they just don't work anymore. I mean, that's not crazy for people with autoimmune issues who might have heightened immune responses, then you're sticking a thing in your arm. And you know, now I don't know how that works with you ever since obviously, I haven't dug into it enough yet. But if the filament from those other ones is what's bothering you, maybe this is maybe this is your answer, Lucien Yeah, right. Also, I can see for if you're not automated right now. And you're just one of those kind of old school like, you know, pen people. It's pretty awesome. Because a lot of those pen people don't move to pumps because they don't like things connected to them. I don't know another way to put this but like old school type ones. Sometimes they fall into camps on wearing something, you know what I mean. So maybe this is a way they can get a CGM and not have to have anything on them.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:08
I think it's a nice way to for people to be able to evaluate something that has changed a variable in their life that's been added. And maybe they don't like you just said maybe they don't really want information or alerts or whatever, all the time. But in certain scenarios, they really need some heightened awareness, or they need to relearn something about Yeah, whatever's changed, right, is a great way because it just sits under your skin and you pop on the transmitter when you want to wear it and get the information and then you don't have to pop it out anymore. Listen,

Scott Benner 36:42
always with the caveat if you can afford it, if your insurance covers that, etc. But right, just from the perspective of a person who cares about people with diabetes, I wish you were all wearing a CGM. Like I don't care how but how you get to it if it's implantable, or if it's a lever a or if it's a Dexcom. Like I just think your life would be measurably better if you had one, long term health especially. I agree. Yeah, short term safety long term health get a CGM. All right. What's the next one? You say Libra? What do I say? Libra.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:12
Libra Libra. I've heard it both ways quite honestly. So yes,

Scott Benner 37:17
nothing better than picking a name that people can pronounce nine different ways. What do we got now? We're up to the libre three. Yes. Okay. What would you call it? A quarter size maybe smaller little sensor for

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:29
those who are already using like Dexcom G seven more comparable? It's definitely it's flat it's like quarter would be a good overall like thickness and roundness. Okay, order nickel two quarter kind of Yep.

Scott Benner 37:45
Are they calling the libre three is a 14 day where at this point all right. Yeah, FreeStyle Libre 14 basis 13 Okay, so there's libre two there's libre three they pair with I mean at this point let's go over at libre works with what pumps as far as automation goes.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 38:06
Yeah, as far as automation libre definitely works with the do it yourself. System. Yeah. And is it? Definitely I mean, it's not Medtronic, they have their own proprietary. Anybody say they don't? Yeah. It does not work with Omnipod five, right. And if it works with Ken, does it work with control IQ yet?

Scott Benner 38:30
Control?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 38:31
I'm trying to remember I knew something was in the works.

Scott Benner 38:34
I don't think so yet. Yep. So but I think they're actually working towards it though.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 38:39
They are. I mean, that all goes into that line of interoperability right. Companies have made their systems designated as interoperable which means that at some point in the future, you would get to pick and choose your system. I want to use this pump but I want to use this CGM because this one is what works best for me. So to have those those choices down the road that's the whole

Scott Benner 39:07
I'm on tandems website tandem diabetes Care Plus FreeStyle Libre two plus well okay, so they're showing me working with the x two Congri to the libre two does not the libre three okay libre three. Why? What not? Again?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:25
They have multiple Yeah, why

Scott Benner 39:27
is everything so confusing? Why, Why would two people who know as much about this as anyone else be sitting around going? I don't know. Maybe does it like it's all over the place? You don't I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:39
mean, that's where the confusing things come in. And then they all end up having sort of like different actions they work for or last for this amount of time versus 14 days, seven days, 10 days, 14 days. This one does give you alerts without having to actually hold the device over it and wave a wand and chant some mad check something or another right even

Scott Benner 40:01
that each point is something people aren't going to know when the first libre came out. Like it wasn't a content it wasn't really a continuous glucose monitor it was a glucose monitor that you had to hold a device to to get your reading. So it was basically like checking your finger without poking your finger. But it also gave trends but it would show you the trends that Yeah, correct. So it starts like that. Also here, it looks like the libre two plus is a 15. day wear. So once a 14 once a 15 once a 10. Like, how am I supposed to keep up with all this? It naming systems with Medtronic 677 7782. Gentlemen, if you put me in charge, everything would be so easy. I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:41
have an asset before that. I don't know if anybody would live in the land of Jenny wouldn't do this audit. And these rules would be very straightforward. We were doing that.

Scott Benner 40:51
I remember two years. Omnipod was like we're gonna come out with the Omni pod horizon. It's gonna be one day they were like it's the Omni pod vibe. And I was like what happened?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:00
Right? Yes, it was. And it's still sometimes I even run across the horizon still being like, mentioned somewhere and I was like, well, we're kind of bad. beyond that. We know what it's called now, but let me be

Scott Benner 41:12
clear with everybody. iPhone. iPhone to iPhone three. iphone four. iPhone five. iPhone six. See how easy it is? The biggest number is the latest one all done. Like one time they tried SC and then they were like, stop it. Don't do that. Oh my god. Anyway. Yeah, I'm not coming down on anybody. You guys make amazing products. Yeah. So why do I care? So is is what's the biggest difference between Dexcom and Libre is that Dexcom has interoperability with all these pumps.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:41
Outside of like you just said the libre two plus, as interoperability obviously with the x two. Right? And, you know, system and control IQ. I would say to that there are no other cent. I mean, again, we'll get to Medtronic. But that's again, a proprietary type of

Scott Benner 41:59
use. So Jenny, just being honest, right? What's the I know? They're all their marketing is all gonna say we're accurate. We're this or that? Like, what is the real difference? Like you talk to people every day who use both of these? Like, you use a Dexcom do you use a Dexcom? Because it works with the thing you use or do you use it because you prefer? Yes. You don't prefer Dexcom over libre?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 42:17
I actually I do so my personal my n of one. And I haven't tried the new so I have not used a libre three. I don't know its accuracy. For me. The earlier versions of libre, just like med tronics sensor early versions, they were not accurate for me. Dexcom long term has been the most accurate and stays very accurate for me. So I stay with it. Because again, it also works with the system that I'm using and you know, it is what it is. Yeah, if it didn't, I would absolutely be searching for something that works to buy

Scott Benner 42:55
benefit. You know, the thing I like about I might like about Dexcom the most is the Dexcom makes Dex coms. Abbott makes freestyles like so big company, small, like department kind of a thing. Like I like that everybody that shows up at Dexcom. Every morning if this thing doesn't work, we all lose our jobs. That's what I like. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 43:15
yeah. They are on their on one track. Now. I love that about

Scott Benner 43:19
Omnipod too, by the way, like Medtronic makes tools that heart surgeons use. Yeah, like, right. If Omnipod stops working. A lot of people in trouble. Yeah. And I'm talking about paying their bills. I like that kind of pressure on people when they go to work. Especially when it's around my daughter's, you know, medical supplies. But yeah, I mean, I think the same thing. I think if the library works for you, great. Use it. Yeah, if the Dexcom works for you. Great. I also think if your insurance covers it, great. Like there's a lot of, you know, decisions,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 43:51
which I feel a lot online to, again, comments about why prefer this one, I think it might work better, but my coverage or my pay out of pocket is a lot less with this one. And it seems to be okay. So this is what I'm going to stick with, right. I mean, that's, it's not really what the person wants, but from an affordability standpoint, it's what they're using.

Scott Benner 44:13
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, again, I want you using the CGM whichever one is like I tried to I was telling my brother my brother's got type two. And I said, Hey, Dexcom is coming out with stello. It's, you know, for for type twos. And he said, Yeah, I'm gonna like cash buy some Libras right now because I can afford them until that happens. He's like, then I'm going to look again. I didn't tell him Oh, no, wait a couple of months. Delos. Come in the song I said good. I want the data come in and within a week type to by the way, he said to me, Scott, the amount of foods I stopped eating this week, just because he's like, I don't even know how to explain it to you. Like I see that line go up and I go, Oh, I'm not gonna eat that again. You know, like real quick, just that's a valuable thing for him. And safety wise. I like you All for safety especially you're using insulin, you know wearing a CGM? Yes. So Dexcom has the Dexcom G six, and the G seven. Here's interesting because visually speaking, freestyle to freestyle three look pretty similar, right? Correct. But the form factor of the g7 is now more much more like the libre small, thin, round, but the G six is still old school where you, you know you have like a sensor bed and then you click a transmitter into it. It's pretty raised up off your body, maybe a half an inch if I had to guess like, just visually. Are you wearing one right now? Yeah, yeah, it's about a half inch. Right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 45:36
I wear GS six. Yeah, it's about I would say it's maybe it's not nearly a half an inch, but I would say it's probably a third

Scott Benner 45:42
but it's not like having a coin tape to you. It's more like having a, you know, half a double A battery tape T or something. I don't know. Meanwhile, I've worn a G six. I can tell you it takes about eight minutes for you to forget you're wearing it. You don't even notice it ever again. So, but you're on G six. How come you haven't moved to g7 yet? Do you know what to say? Do you want my answer? Yeah, listen, I'll tell you right now I moved to Arden to g7 right away. It works freaking terrific for but Arden is a person who CGM is have always worked really well for her. She can wear them right out to their grace periods. She doesn't lose her. Her graphs don't get wonky. Like it just they work for her. You know what I mean? So, but what about you? So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:26
I have not tried g7. So I don't have anything to compare to G six, right? My hesitation in moving to G seven is a lot of the feedback I get from people using G seven it is now you've had really good success with it. Arden likes it. The accuracy is there. It's you know, whatever it's doing with the system that she's using seems to be very compatible. And it works well. I have seen that in a lot of people where they're really happy with it. I've also seen about 50% who are not who complain for the whole first day. There's inaccuracy or the numbers jump up and down or there's wide variance from finger stick to actual CGM, or I do think that the compression lows I've heard a lot less issue with with G seven, compared to G six. I've seen that cleared up which is nice to hear. I'm usually a Gosh, this is new. Let's try it in the diabetes realm. I think it's right. I want to keep up. Listen,

Scott Benner 47:32
I'm no business expert. But the GS six production the way you produce that and the way I'm assuming they'll phase it out eventually. Right. Thanks. Sure. Yeah. And also what I like about them. I'm sure this goes for libre as well, too, is a lot of what happens in your CGM is software based, whether you believe like, I don't know if people know that or not. But they can tweak the algorithm tweak the software and make it more accurate. So they get better as they go. Correct. Yeah. And that's why I try hard not to listen in the very beginning because I don't think a company would call it like a it's not a beta test. I'm sure it's not but once they get it out on more people and they get more data back, I'm assuming they know. It helps them make adjustments, little tweaks to it. Tune it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 48:13
Yeah, exactly. I'm just I guess I personally I'm kind of waiting. All the all the tweaks aspects.

Scott Benner 48:19
there's anything wrong with that. I think some people wait and some people jump in and that I think gets a difference in how people think about technology. I took you down to the last minute, we didn't talk about the Medtronic sensor. Oh, let's talk go go go.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 48:30
Quick. So yeah, the Medtronic sensor is their guardian for right, their newest that comes works with the 780, which is their, you know, most recent algorithms system. I will say that from the small handful of people that I am working with that use it. They really do like it and having been long term users of the Medtronic systems. They've even commented in terms of like accuracy, improvement with the algorithm and everything, which is really lovely to hear. I'd be curious, quite honestly, to try the new sensor and see how it does work for me because they're their earlier versions. As I said, just they were not accurate for me at all.

Scott Benner 49:12
Yeah, well, I mean, they've come a long way from I've had people come on this podcast and call one of their old sensors a harpoon. That's not a fun word.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 49:19
And that was from the way that it was inserted. 100% Yeah. But

Scott Benner 49:23
obviously, it's come a long way. I've heard a ton of people using seven ATG that are very happy with it. Yeah. And if you're using a Medtronic automated system, you are using the Medtronic navigator CGM. That's the only thing that works with you

Jennifer Smith, CDE 49:35
are and you can use it as so for those who are MDI, you can actually use their CGM as a standalone, they do have just a sensor system too, which again, quite nice. So it pairs along with Dexcom or, or libre as a standalone system. You don't have to have a pump to use it which with and again, that's quite nice, I think They're CGM. And they have a smart, they have a smart piece to part of their sort of data analysis software that actually does do some analysis of your data. And it helps to give you sort of some feedback on what is what's being collected by the system and what it's seeing and trends and that kind of stuff. And that's a really wonderful,

Scott Benner 50:25
right? I'll say this. For Medtronic, too, they have some other stuff that you might not know about. One thing is a super simple thing called an eye port. And it's just this little cord you put on, it's a one injection, and then you can put your needle or your pen into that injection. So I think over three days, you can wear it right, so for three days, all of your injections can go through the eye port, so you get stuck once for every 72 hours, they have the in pen, which is you know, an insulin pen that's also paired to an app that gives you a ton of functionality that people want in insulin pumps, too. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 50:57
yeah, it's kind of like pumping without a pump. Really, it gives you all of that calculation part that a pump does without the tubing or anything. You know, it's very, very nice to be able to use. I'm glad you brought up the iport Because I think that's a, it's an under utilized piece.

Scott Benner 51:15
I tried to get them to buy ads for it, because I thought it was so valuable for people, but I don't think it makes enough money to have a marketing budget. But like, seriously, but yeah, but I ports if you're injecting, and you want to limit the amount of actual pokes, like, look into that, it's it's fantastic. You know, what about accuracy with the Navigator? Do you see, like with the people you just as good as everything else, this point? Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 51:38
with the with Medtronic, they're there for sentry guardian for sensor is is accurate from the people that have been using, it seems quite accurate. Like I said earlier, that you've even seen improved accuracy, having been long term Medtronic sensor wearers already, to say that they notice a difference good in accuracy is is huge, which means that they've done a nice job of, of making improvements. Honestly,

Scott Benner 52:05
it's all we want. We want everybody working hard to make these things as good as they can be. And then you guys are all going to, I mean, less than these companies are going to listen and say, Oh, I wish you would have said Mine's the best in everything. But I mean, it's not how this works. And I think they know that like Unity mean, like it's, you know, a marketing meeting. You're like, no, say ours, but they're all good. You know, so find one that works for you and use it like in the end, what I want is for people to be healthy and happy and safe. Not right now. Not a it's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 52:31
just like a favorite pump. I can give a favorite pump from my personal use. Yeah, but from other people, you have to be wide. And you have to be able to analyze and say, You know what, you're looking at this one, but based on your lifestyle based on these factors. I actually think this probably would be better for you. Yeah,

Scott Benner 52:48
I'll say this. Arden has been using an omni pod since she was four. She's about to turn 20 It's a friend to her to my family. If someone made something better. I jump in two seconds. So like, you know, you'd be like, Yeah, you got it. You gotta be out for you in the end. Yeah, you know, so, do all that. All right, Jenny, you're terrific. Obviously, I'll talk to you soon.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 53:07
Okay, thank you.

Scott Benner 53:18
Jalen is an incredible example of what's so many experience living with diabetes. You show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes define you. And that is what the Medtronic champion community is all about. Each of us is strong, and together, we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community where to share your own story, visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box and look out online for the hashtag Medtronic champion. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoy my full conversation with Jalen coming up in just a moment. A huge thanks to Dexcom for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast dexcom.com/juice box head over there now get started today. I'd like to thank ag one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and remind you that with your first order, you're going to get a free welcome kit. Five free travel packs in a year supply of vitamin D. That's at AG one.com/juice box. Thinking about getting an algorithm pump, don't know where to begin juicebox podcast.com up in the menu, click on algorithm pumping and you're gonna get a long list of a lot of episodes that will help you to understand better juicebox podcast.com Find algorithm pumping. Thanks for hanging out until the end. Now you're going to hear my entire conversation with Jalen don't forget Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box or the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform.

Speaker 1 54:53
My name is Jalen Mayfield. I am 29 years old. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin where I am Originally from Waynesboro, Mississippi, so I've kind of traveled all over. I've just landed here in the Midwest and haven't left since ice.

Scott Benner 55:07
How old were you? When you were diagnosed with type one diabetes?

Speaker 1 55:10
I was 14 years old when I was diagnosed with type one diabetes 15

Scott Benner 55:14
years ago. Wow. Yes. Okay. 14 years old. What do you like? Do you remember what grade you were in?

Speaker 1 55:20
I actually do because we, we have like an eighth grade promotion. So I had just had a great promotion. So I was going straight into high school. So it was a summer, heading into high school was that

Scott Benner 55:29
particularly difficult going into high school with this new thing?

Speaker 1 55:32
I it was unimaginable, you know, I missed my entire summer. So I went, I was going to a brand new school with, you know, our community, we brought three different schools together. So I was around a bunch of new people that I had not been going to school with. So it was hard trying to balance that while also explaining to people what type one diabetes was,

Scott Benner 55:53
did you even know? Or were you just learning at the same time, I

Speaker 1 55:56
honestly was learning at the same time, my hometown did not have an endocrinologist. So I was traveling almost over an hour to the nearest, you know, pediatrician, like endocrinologist for children. So you know, outside of that I didn't have any type of support in my hometown.

Scott Benner 56:13
Was there any expectation of diabetes? Is somebody else in your family have type one?

Unknown Speaker 56:18
No, I was the first one to have type one in my family.

Scott Benner 56:20
And do you have children? Now?

Unknown Speaker 56:22
I do not know.

Scott Benner 56:23
Do you think you will one day, still

Speaker 1 56:25
thinking about it? But right now, I've just been traveling books at all my career myself. So

Scott Benner 56:30
what do you do? What's your career? Yeah, so

Speaker 1 56:32
I am a marketing leasing specialist for a student housing company. So we oversee about 90 properties throughout the US. So I've been working for them for about eight years now. And you get to travel a lot in that job. Yes, I experience a lot of travel. It's fun, but also difficult, especially with all your type one diabetes supplies, and all your electronics. So it's a bit of a hassle sometimes.

Scott Benner 56:54
What do you find that you absolutely need with you while you're traveling? diabetes wise,

Speaker 1 56:59
I have learned my biggest thing I need is some type of glucose. I have experienced lows, whether that's on a flight traveling, walking through the airport, and I used to always experience just being nervous to ask for some type of snack or anything. So I just felt, I felt like I needed to always have something on me. And that has made it my travel a lot easier.

Scott Benner 57:21
So growing up in the small town, what was your initial challenge during diagnosis? And what other challenges did you find along the way?

Speaker 1 57:31
Yeah, I think the initial one, I felt isolated, I had no one to talk to that it was experiencing what I was going through, you know, they were people would say, Oh, I know, this is like hard for you. But I was like, you really don't like I, I just felt lonely. I didn't know you know, people were watching everything I did. He was like, You can't eat this, you can't eat that. I felt like all of my childhood had been you know, I don't even remember what it was like for life before diabetes at this point, because I felt like that's the only thing I could focus on was trying to do a life with type one diabetes,

Scott Benner 58:06
when you found yourself misunderstood? Did you try to explain to people or did you find it easier just to stay private?

Speaker 1 58:13
I honestly I just held back I didn't really like talking about it. It was just it felt like it was just an repeating record where I was saying things and people weren't understanding it. And I also was still in the process of learning it. So I just, you know, kept it to myself didn't really talk about it when I absolutely had to,

Scott Benner 58:30
did you eventually find people in real life that you could confide in?

Speaker 1 58:34
I think I never really got the experience until after getting to college. And then once I graduated college, and moving to an even bigger town, that's what I finally found out was people were I was like, Okay, there's a lot of other people that have type one diabetes. And you know, there's a community out there, which I had never experienced before, is college

Scott Benner 58:56
where you met somebody with diabetes for the first time or just where you met more people with different ways of thinking.

Speaker 1 59:02
So I met my first person with diabetes, actually, my freshman year of high school, there was only one other person, and he had had it since he was a kid like y'all once this was like, maybe born, or like right after that timeframe. So that was the only other person I knew until I got to college and I started meeting other people. I was a member of the band and I was an RA. So I was like, Okay, there's, you know, there's a small handful of people also at my university, but then, once I moved to I moved to St. Louis, and a lot of my friends I met were like med students, and they were young professionals. And that's where I started really getting involved with one of my really close friends to this day. He was also type one diabetic and I was like, that's who introduced me to all these different types of communities and technologies and which is really what helped jumpstart my learning more in depth with type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 59:53
Do you think I mean, there was that one person in high school but you were young? Do you really think you were ready to build a relationship And around diabetes, or did you even know the reason why that would be important at the time? I

Speaker 1 1:00:05
didn't, uh, you know, I honestly didn't think about it, I just was I, oh, there's another person in my class that's kind of going through the same thing as I am. But they've also had it a lot longer than I have. So they kind of got it down. They don't really talk about it. And I was like, Well, I don't really have much to, like, connect with him. So sorry, connect with him on Yeah, no. So

Scott Benner 1:00:25
now once your world expands as far as different people, different backgrounds, different places in college, you see the need to connect in real life, but there's still only a few people, but there's still value in that, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:36
Correct.

Scott Benner 1:00:38
What do you think that value was at the time?

Speaker 1 1:00:40
I think it was just what making me feel like I was just a normal person. I just wanted that. And I just, I needed to know that like, you know, there was other people out there with type one diabetes experiencing the same type of, you know, thoughts that I was having.

Scott Benner 1:00:55
When were you first introduced to the Medtronic champions community? Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:01:00
So about two years ago, I was, you know, becoming more I was looking around and I noticed stumbled upon the Medtronic community. And I was like, this is something I really, really, I kind of need, you know, I said, I, all throughout these years, I was, you know, afraid to show my pump. You couldn't, I would wear long sleeves, like, didn't want people to see my CGM, because I didn't want people to ask me questions. And you know, I just felt so uncomfortable. And then I noticed seeing these people really, in the Medtronic community just, they embraced it, you can see them, they weren't afraid to show it. And that was something I was really looking forward to. How

Scott Benner 1:01:35
was it knowing that your diabetes technology is such an important part of your health and your care? And having to hide it? What did it feel like to have to hide that diabetes technology? And how did it feel to be able to kind of let it go,

Speaker 1 1:01:48
I will refuse to go anywhere, like, Hey, I would run to the bathroom, I just didn't want to do it in public, because I felt like people were watching me. And that was just one of the hardest things I was trying to overcome. You know, I was fresh out of college, going into the young, professional world. So you know, going out on work events and things like that. I just, I just didn't think I just didn't think to have it out. Because I was so afraid. But then, once I did start, you know, embracing again and showing it that's when the curiosity came and it was actually genuine questions and people wanting to know more about the equipment that I'm on, and how does this work? And what does this mean? And things like that, which made it kind of inspired me? Because I was like, Okay, people actually do want to understand what I'm experiencing with type one diabetes. What

Scott Benner 1:02:33
did you experience when, when the internet came into play? And now suddenly as easy as a hashtag, and you can meet all these other people who are living with diabetes as well? Can you tell me how that is? Either different or valuable? I guess, compared to meeting a few people in real life?

Speaker 1 1:02:50
Absolutely. I think if you look back from when I was first diagnosed to now, you, I would have never thought of like, you know, searching anything for someone with, you know, with type one diabetes. And now it's like, it's all I see, you know, you can easily search Medtronic champions, and you see people that pop up, and you're like, wow, look at all this content. And I think that's something that that kind of just motivates me, and which is how I've kind of came out of my shell and started embracing more and posting more on my social media with about, you know, how I live with type one diabetes. And I think that's something that I hope can inspire everyone else.

Scott Benner 1:03:24
What was it like having more personal intimate relationships in college with type one?

Speaker 1 1:03:29
I think it was kind of hard to explain, you know, just, for example, like, no one really knows, it understands like what alo is. And I think that was a very hard thing for me to explain, like I, you know, it can happen in a in a moment, and I'm sweating. I'm just really like, not all there. And I'm trying to explain, like, Hey, this is what's going on. I need your help. And I think that was something that was hard for me to, you know, I did talk to people about it. So when this happened, they were like, oh, you know, what's going on with your mate? I'm actually a type one diabetic. This is what's going on? I need your help. What about

Scott Benner 1:04:07
once you've had an experience like that in front of someone? Was it always bonding? Or did it ever have people kind of step back and be maybe more leery of your relationship?

Speaker 1 1:04:19
After I would tell someone I had type one diabetes after some type of event or anything like they were kind of more upset with me that I didn't tell them up front? Because they were like, you know, I care about you as a person I would have loved to knowing this about you. It's not anything you should have to hide from me. And that was a lot of the realization that I was going through with a lot of people.

Scott Benner 1:04:37
Okay, let me ask you this. So now we talked about what it was like to be low, and to have that more kind of emergent situation, but what about when your blood sugar has been high or stubborn? And you're not thinking correctly, but it's not as obvious maybe to you or to them? Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:04:52
So I also I go through my same experiences when I have high blood sugars, you know, I can tell like For my coworkers, for example, I didn't really talk to you know, when I go out backtrack, when I visit multiple sites for work, I usually don't announce it. And so sometimes I'm working throughout the day, I might have snacks, forgot to take some insulin, and my blood sugar is running high and I'm a little bit more irritable, I'm all over the place. And I'm like, let me stop. Hey, guys, I need to like take some insulin, and I'm sorry, I'm not. I didn't tell you guys. I'm a diabetic. So you may be wondering why I'm kind of just a little bit snippy, you know, so I like to make sure I do that now going forward, because that's something I noticed. And it was kind of hindering me with my career because I was, you know, getting irritable, because I'm working nonstop. And I'm forgetting to take a step back and focus on my diabetes,

Scott Benner 1:05:43
right? Hey, with the advent of new technologies, like Medtronic, CGM, and other diabetes technology, can you tell me how that's improved your life and those interactions with people? Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:05:54
I can. I feel confident knowing that it's working in the background, as someone and I've always at least said it, I have been someone that's really bad with counting my carbs. So sometimes I kind of undershoot it because I'm scared. But it allows me to just know that, hey, it's gonna it's got my back if I forget something, and I think that allows me to have a quick, have a quick lunch. And then I'm able to get back into the work day because it's such a fast paced industry that I work in. So sometimes it is easy to forget. And so I love that I have that system that's keeping track of everything for me.

Scott Benner 1:06:27
Let me ask you one last question. When you have interactions online with other people who have type one diabetes, what social media do you find the most valuable for you personally? Like? What platforms do you see the most people and have the most good interactions on?

Speaker 1 1:06:43
Yeah, I've honestly, I've had tremendous interactions on Instagram. That's where I've kind of seen a lot of other diabetics reach out to me and ask me questions or comment and be like, Hey, you're experiencing this too. But I've recently also been seeing tic TOCs. And, you know, finding on that side of it, I didn't, you know, see the videos and upload videos. And I'm like, I would love to do stuff like that. But I just never had the courage. So I've seen people make, like, just the fun engagement videos now, which I love, you know, really bringing that awareness to diabetes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:07:13
Isn't it interesting? Maybe you don't know this, but there's some sort of an age cut off somewhere where there is an entire world of people with type one diabetes existing on Facebook, that don't go into Tik Tok or Instagram and vice versa. Yeah. And I do think it's pretty broken down by, you know, when that platform was most popular for those people by age, but your younger people, I'm acting like, I'm 100 years old, but younger people seem to enjoy video more.

Speaker 1 1:07:40
Yes, I think it's just because it's something you see. And so it's like, and I think that one thing, and obviously, it's a big stereotype around diabetes is you don't like you have diabetes. And that's something I always face. And so when I see other people that are just, you know, normal, everyday people, and I'm like, they have type one diabetes, just like me, they're literally living their life having fun. That's just something you'd want to see. Because you don't get to see people living their everyday lives with diabetes. I think that's something I've really enjoyed. What

Scott Benner 1:08:09
are your health goals? When you go to the endocrinologist, and you make a plan for the next few months? What are you hoping to achieve? And where do you struggle? And where do you see your successes,

Speaker 1 1:08:20
I'll be honest, I was not someone who was, you know, involved with my diabetes, I wasn't really focused on my health. And that was something that, you know, you go into an endocrinologist and you get these results back. And it's not what you want to hear. It makes you nervous, it makes you scared. And so I personally for myself, you know, I was like, This is my shake. This is my chance to change. I know, there's people that are living just like me, everyday lives, and they can keep their agencies and their blood sugar's under control. How can I do this? So I go in with, you know, I would like to see it down a certain number of points each time I would love for my doctor to be like, Hey, I see you're entering your carbs. I see. You're, you know, you're not having lows. You're not running high too often. That's my goal. And I've been seeing that. And that's what motivates me, every time I go to the endocrinologist where I don't dread going. It's like an exciting visit for me. So you'd

Scott Benner 1:09:08
like to set a goal for yourself and then for someone to acknowledge it to give you kind of that energy to keep going for the next goal.

Speaker 1 1:09:15
Yeah, I feel as a type one diabetic for me, and it's just a lot to balance. It's a hard our journey. And so I want someone when I go in, I want to be able to know like, Hey, I see what you're doing. Let's work together to do this. Let's you don't want to be put down like you know, you're doing horrible you're doing it's just, it's not going to motivate you because it's you're you're already fighting a tough battle. So just having that motivation and acknowledging the goods and also how we can improve. That's what really has been the game changer for me in the past two years. Jalen,

Scott Benner 1:09:52
I appreciate you spending this time with me. This was terrific. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:56
Absolutely. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:09:58
If you enjoy Jalen Story check out Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box if you're ready to level up your diabetes care, the diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast focuses on simple strategies for living well with type one. The pro tip episodes contain easy to understand concepts that will increase your knowledge of how insulin works, and so much more. My daughter has had an A one C between five two and six for since 2014, with zero diet restrictions, and some of those years include her in college. This information works for children, adults, and for the newly diagnosed and for those who have been struggling for years. Go to juicebox podcast.com and click on diabetes pro tip in the menu, or head over to Episode 1000 of the Juicebox Podcast to get started today. With the episode newly diagnosed we're starting over and then continue right on to Episode 1025. That's the entire Pro Tip series episode 1002 1025. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

#1170 Bubble and Fuzzle

Jeannie is 71 years old. She was diagnosed in 1965 when she was 12. A former nurse who loves diabetes camps.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1170 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today on the podcast I'll be speaking with Jeanne who was diagnosed with type one diabetes in 1965 at the age of 12. Jeannie is a retired nurse who loves helping people. And today we're going to talk about the differences between diabetes back in the day and today, we're going to talk about diabetes camp community and so much more. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year's supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org and find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that check them out at touched by type one.org. US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years, you can as well. Us med.com/juice box are called 888-721-1514. Use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. And sure all CGM systems use Transcutaneous sensors that are inserted into the skin and lasts seven to 14 days. But the Eversense sensor is inserted completely under the skin lasting six months ever since cgm.com/juicebox.

Jeannie 2:39
Good morning. I'm Jamie Hickey. I'm a diabetes nurse, retired. But I was diagnosed with diabetes in 1965. And have been very involved with camps for type one diabetics and families since 2003.

Scott Benner 3:01
Alright Jeannie, so

Jeannie 3:02
that's why I'm here today.

Scott Benner 3:03
You were you were diagnosed and 65 How old were you then? I was 12 If you whisper they can't hear you. But I'm just gonna repeat it loud enough. Don't worry.

Jeannie 3:15
I know. Yeah, I was I was 12.

Scott Benner 3:17
Well, we can do the math easy on this one, right? Because I know that's the scary part. Yeah. 40 years is 2005. So 50 is 2015 to 60 is next year. And then you were are you 71 Yes. Give me Jenny. Hey, I am a math wizard. When it comes to 10s I can do the 10s No problem.

Jeannie 3:36
That's because we have diabetes. We have to be math strong.

Scott Benner 3:40
Well, Jeannie, do you know I don't you don't I was gonna say Do you know I don't have diabetes? Right? It's your daughter? Yeah. My daughter Arden who is going to be 20 this summer. Wow. She was diagnosed when she was two.

Jeannie 3:53
That's it. That's a That's a tough place. Terrible two's

Scott Benner 3:56
not a great deal of fun if you're wondering. So yeah, you're diagnosed in 65. At 12 years old. I'd like to pick through it just for a couple of minutes. I want to get to the real reason you're here. But you know, first. I mean, are you regular an MPH or is that still like beef and pork?

Jeannie 4:14
I did. I started on regular and mph after I went to camp because my parents took me like six or eight weeks after diagnosis. I went to camp. There was a doctor up there and we got a letter from him saying he was pleased that we were already on twice a day injections.

Scott Benner 4:33
You were you were in the future already.

Jeannie 4:35
Yeah.

Scott Benner 4:37
What do you remember about that? Do you remember anything about it is a long time ago, but what was it like?

Jeannie 4:43
Well, I remember you know, it was definitely outdoors camp was and you know, walking down the hill with my cup of urine sitting in front of a fireplace and I guess it was raining so we were roasting marshmallows and having some more words. And I thought, oh, I can do this. I can have a similar, you know, the chocolate marshmallow. And so it was already a quick opening and then just having other kids there. But back then you didn't tell people because they didn't need to know. So

Scott Benner 5:19
it offered you a sense of normalcy right away?

Jeannie 5:21
Yes. And just companions, who understood, didn't have to explain thing. They understood

Scott Benner 5:29
your day, what was your day? What did it look like having diabetes when you were 12 and 65.

Jeannie 5:36
You know, I really don't remember other than I remember sitting in the bathroom, trying a united drawn up my insulin and trying to get the needle into my thigh, sitting there and aiming and bobbing the needle and just putting it off and having to talk to myself saying, just get it over with, and then it's done. And you've got the rest of the day. So it was, you know, I'm sure that a lot of kids did that before the auto injectors came out. And now everybody's put on a pump so quickly. But my mom kind of measured my food because there was the exchange diet, where you had, you know, one or two servings of this one or two servings of that. And that was what you're supposed to eat every day. The fat you're supposed to have so much fat every day. There's a joke at camp about all the Pat's of butter, they were underneath the tables,

Scott Benner 6:33
because people were like trying to get their groups together, the fat the carbs was there. But what do you remember what the groups were? They wanted you to do

Jeannie 6:43
fruit milk, starch, protein, vegetable

Scott Benner 6:48
that, just like that, and then your doctor made adjustments to the amount of insulin you used. Where did that not really happen very often.

Jeannie 6:56
It doesn't happen very often. Because remember, we just did a urine test every morning. I really don't remember doing one later in the day. five drops of urine 10 drops of water drop in the tablet, and I still have my test tube. You dropped it all in and then you watched it bubble and fuzzle up and you get a color

Scott Benner 7:17
bubble and yeah, I gotta tell you right now bubble and Fazal could be the name of your, your episode Genie. That was great. Oh, jotting that down.

Jeannie 7:29
And then what's fun is fun, or just timewise. You know, you'd take this colored test tube and you'd move it across the color scale that came with the box of tablets. So you would have this sliding scale as you got the color and you would know whether you were negative trace or four plus on the sugar. And at some point in time they started saying if you are then you can add this much more of regular that's what

Scott Benner 8:00
I was gonna ask. Yeah, in the beginning it was just do the test, but at some point it became do the test and if it's a certain color, you can add a little insulin. The podcast is sponsored today by ever since CGM. Ever since cgm.com/juice. Box. we've ever since there's no need for frequent sensor changes, no more sensors falling off, fewer failed sensors and less skin irritations and that means more comfort with ever since you only need one sensor insertion every six months, and there's no need for constant sensor changes, which means less hassle. There's also no need to carry extra sensors with you. So that's less stuff to worry about. And you can say goodbye to unexpected disruptions from sensors falling off or being knocked off. Because the ever since CGM is implantable and the sensor stays comfortably in place for six months. The Eversense sensor is incredibly durable. And of course that means fewer frequent unexpected sensor errors that happen before the end of the suggested wear time. But what do you really want to know about accuracy? The ever since CGM performs exceptionally over its six month life. If you'd like more details or are interested in getting started, use my link ever since cgm.com/juicebox. I'll be telling you a lot more about ever since this year, so make sure you pay attention to upcoming advertisements. There you'll learn about the implantable sensor, the smart transmitter and their mobile application. The ever since CGM lasts up to six months eliminating the hassle and discomfort of frequent sensor insertions. Simply put, it makes managing your diabetes so much easier ever since cgm.com/juicebox. I'm starting to take it for granted. I am I'm starting to take for granted that Arden's diabetes supplies just show up. But they do because of us med us med.com/juice box we get an email It says, you know, do you want to refill your order? And you click and say yes. And then it just comes to the door. There's not a lot to say when things are done well yeah, I could stand here and tell you us med carries Omnipod five Omnipod dash Dexcom G seven G six tandem x two libre three libre two. I mean they've got there's so much. I'm not even listening at all I should be. I will at the end. I promise. My point is this. It just works. And we don't talk about things enough when they just work. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your free benefits check and get started today with the white glove treatment offered by us med us med here's what they got. FreeStyle Libre three and two. They got it. Omni pod dash. Yes. Omni pod five, aha. Tandem. Yep. What about? Have they served a million people with diabetes since 1996. They have better service and better care is what you're going to get from us med but you're also going to get 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. They carry everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, the latest CGM and they accept Medicare nationwide. Find out why us med has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau at us med.com/juice. Box or call 888-721-1514. Yeah, yeah. Because back then all you were doing was trying to cover meals, right? Like you had to eat on a schedule to I would imagine times a day.

Jeannie 11:39
Right? scales. And then remember, it was NPH. So you were supposed to have an afternoon snack, and a bedtime snack because of the peak of NPH. Yeah, where the insulin hit. Yeah. So even if you weren't hungry, you had to have a snack. And boy did that carry over? Many, many, many years. Even when people were no longer on NPH they still thought they had to have a bedtime snack. They had to eat when they didn't want to. Yeah,

Scott Benner 12:08
it was so ingrained in them by the time that the the insulin kind of leveled up and wasn't necessary anymore. They were still doing that thing. Yeah, Scott, every day starts with the smell of urine and ends with a snack. You don't want

Jeannie 12:21
to go there you go. Did you have to do that with your daughter? Oh, Arden

Scott Benner 12:25
started with love Amir and nice Novolog. Those were her two first insolence. Yeah. So I mean, after that, we had a meter that looked like it came out of a bubblegum machine. And nothing else. That was what we had.

Jeannie 12:41
So meters were about our, I guess, test strips or about seven the 879. Then you had a strip that you could stick into a meter.

Scott Benner 12:51
But they needed like a ton of blood, right? Yeah,

Jeannie 12:56
it was a good drop. And we were supposed to you weren't supposed to squeeze because they felt that it got more serum into the blood and it would change the value of that blood sample. So we were not supposed to squeeze. So that meant you might had to hit it pretty hard.

Scott Benner 13:11
And then just sit there holding your finger upside down letting the blood drip out of it.

Jeannie 13:14
Yeah.

Scott Benner 13:15
How much time do you think in the morning was spent with your diabetes back then? What

Jeannie 13:21
a question. Oh, probably a good 20 minutes. Half hour. Yeah,

Scott Benner 13:27
it sucks. Especially if you're in a hurry. Or if you're, you try you can't sleep in. You can't just you know, you can't just jump up and go. Yeah, it takes a lot. It takes a lot away from from your ability to move around. So you growing up with this. I mean, you really just once you get over the I can't put this needle on my leg. Once you get over that. You're basically on your own. Are your parents very involved?

Jeannie 13:50
I mean, yes or no, they mom didn't you know ask every day what my urine sugar was. But she was helpful, very helpful in getting a meal. Planning the meals and getting the snacks and stuff. I left home when I was 16

Scott Benner 14:10
went to college where you went to college and you're 16 Yeah,

Jeannie 14:13
right. About a couple of weeks after I graduated from high school. You

Scott Benner 14:17
graduated from high school and time to start college when you were six. Are you very smart, Janie?

Jeannie 14:22
Well, I think I turned 17 while I was gone that summer, okay, but no, no, I'm not that snow.

Scott Benner 14:26
I thought maybe you were. You were like, oh, gotta get her off into the world where she could do some good. I wanted to start med school. Did you What did you end up going to college for?

Jeannie 14:38
pre med. You did?

Scott Benner 14:39
And did you finish? No.

Jeannie 14:41
I after a year I said, I don't like all these classes that I have to take. So I came home and worked on getting my AAA and met a school nurse and she finally said Jeannie, go to a hospital program and become a nurse. You want people So I did, and I've loved it.

Scott Benner 15:03
Oh, that's amazing. How long did you do it for?

Jeannie 15:07
Well, let's see. I graduated from nursing school marriage in Oakland in 75. And then I just retired in 16. You just retired? Yeah. Yeah. 16 So like, six years ago, but I still do a lot. I'm still very active with the type one community. Yeah,

Scott Benner 15:28
I don't want to make you feel bad. But I was for 1975. You little rapscallion. I'm old now. So what are we talking about?

Jeannie 15:39
I don't feel old. And I hope you don't either.

Scott Benner 15:41
My shoulders a little sometimes. But actually, if you're if you're actually asking me, I feel so much better today. In January than I did. Last year. In January, I started using a GLP medication just for weight. Initially, it was for weight in March. And this morning, when I got on the scale, it told me that I am 43 pounds lighter than I was the day I started to march. That

Jeannie 16:06
is wonderful. There are so many people who their prescriptions stopped because the medication is not available. There's a woman that I'm I know, in one of the support groups. She couldn't get it anymore.

Scott Benner 16:17
Yeah. It's going to be very, very widely used. They need to ramp up and keep ramping it up. My daughter who is 20 is using just point two five of ozempic a week. Wow. And it brought her hourly Basal from 1.1. To point seven. Yes, her insulin sensitivity went from one unit moves her 42 to one unit moves her 63 Isn't that wonderful? Yeah. Yeah. And I my calculations tell me she's going to use 11,000 fewer units of insulin this year.

Jeannie 16:49
Wow. The math wizard.

Scott Benner 16:51
That's what I did earlier. I just remembered it. So. But seriously, the the impact is crazy. I've got a lot of people coming on the podcast this year who are experiencing exactly the same things even one little girl who full blown type one for three years who now looks almost Lada because of starting I think we go V for weight loss, which is just those Empik. Yeah, it's interesting, but they're figuring out all the way back from Hey, Jeannie, just shoot this in the morning. And if the box is a different color, you can use a little more to a quarter of a milligram of this once a week will be you know is dropping. I'm not saying it would work for everybody obviously, but But it's going to drop my daughter's insulin sensitive or her insulin needs that much anyway, and it's impacting other things. And

Jeannie 17:39
for a lot of people, it's the food, you know, the last longer you feel fuller sooner. And so it's just easier to start backing off on those extra calories.

Scott Benner 17:51
Yeah, huge difference per eating is definitely different. But I will tell you that the insulin needs changed in the first week. So immediately, yes, even I was told by the endocrinologist that helped me, you know, scowling when you start this, you're not going to lose weight right away. And I was like, okay, she's like, this is a non therapeutic dose of this, it takes a month for it to build up. We're just getting your system used to it. In four or five days, I lost four pounds. Oh, I think you're gonna see people being supplemented for GLP almost the way you see people's supplemented for their thyroid hormone. Yeah.

Jeannie 18:30
And so you so you're just making me realize that there's going to be a lot more people at camp this summer youngsters? Yep. Well could be on it. It first

Scott Benner 18:39
the families that I mean, the insurance isn't covering right now you have to figure out a way to get it or pay cash for it. Right, we're very lucky in that Arden's dose is not going to rise. And so, you know, for us, what is a reasonable cash outlay for the entire year, we're gonna be able to impact your health this way, because a pen is gonna last her forever. So wonderful. Yeah. That's great. That's terrific. It's amazing how it keeps going, how far we've come, of course, and, and I think you've make these advancements, because of community backing. Right, and to really to bring it right back to you. If you've been going to these, you took your experience at camp, and which obviously led you on a good path. And you've been helping other people with this, you know, throughout your life through nursing. And now, you know, staying with community after your retirement from nursing. I don't actually see that as being much different than me sharing a story about my daughter using point two five of those epic. Exactly. You know, I think it's the same thing actually. Tell me more about it. No, about what more about how you got involved with people, and what you got out of it, what kept you doing it and what you think it's bringing to them.

Jeannie 19:52
I guess one of the things I'll say about myself is I'm a first budget, I'm a fixer. I have a good friend who's a teacher and she's all I always say, what would you do? And I'm always saying, Whom have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? I share what I've heard from other people. And I challenge people to think about it. And to me, that's one of the exciting things about having type one diabetes is that we're pushy. We're asking, we're figuring out, you know, just because FDA doesn't say that you can do it, if it works better for you, dad, gummit, do it, try it share the idea. You just may help the next person you talk to make a little bit of their diabetes a little bit easier. We've got choices. But you know, you go to the the endo or the some of the nurses and they open the book. And if it's not in the book, then you don't talk about it. Yeah. But, but that's the fun thing of community, you know, everybody's pushing that. So that whole, we're not waiting, you know, what can we do? To make my life a little bit easier? And that, to me is the fun? I love it.

Scott Benner 21:09
I'm happy to do because there's an argument, right? You know, you'll hear me at any point in time, I'm not shy about pointing out that. Generally speaking, clinicians are underwhelming as far as their value for people using insulin. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, I have two concurrent series that are going on right now. One is called Grand Rounds, where myself and Jenny Smith, Jenny is a CD. You know, Jenny, right. She's had diabetes for like, 35 years, we're talking directly to physicians about what they need to know and what they need to be doing. The series was built around feedback from a Facebook group with 45,000 members in it. I went to them a year ago, and I said, tell me, you know, what you wish the doctors would have said to you, and we compiled 86 pages of answers, pare them down to, you know, took out the duplicates, basically. And then Jenny and I went through them together while we were recording. And we built about a 10 part series, using the people's questions. And then she and I are having these 45 minute hour long conversations on each topic. The idea is we're delivering them to doctors, but it's also incredibly valuable for patients. Because they can say to themselves, well, if my doctor is not offering these things, I know, these are the things I need and deserve. Even if I'm not aware of it. This thing's telling me that yeah, through having those conversations, I started asking doctors to come on. Because my first idea was all let them tell me why it is they don't know more, you know, and what it turned into was a group of clinicians willing to speak anonymously, Jeanne, I actually change their voices, I do a voice altering for them. So you can't tell who they are. They don't use their names. And they are telling us about all the things that they see at their jobs. And so far, I've talked to an ER nurse, a bedside nurse, an in hospital inpatient pharmacist, a human resources professional, I've talked to a an actual CDE. And these people are, they're just spilling their guts, about what's happening in these these places, and what they don't know and what everybody doesn't know. And it's as much as I feel like I knew it already. To hear someone say it. It's different. You know?

Jeannie 23:35
Oh, I agree. Yeah, I'm going to be doing a talk Wednesday, the JDRF talk, and it's what is the CDE do? And it's like, well, so all of these very many people can become a CDE. So he's an exercise physiologist, going to help you with your insulin to carb ratio? Not necessarily, right. So you've got to try and figure out what, what, what CDE Do you want to help you work? What are your problems? It's just the the variety. And there's, you know, every doctor, every hospital worker out there has their own interests. And it's finding someone who meets your challenge ability. Who's willing, that's where I got started when I was working in the ER, is my co workers would say come talk to this person. Okay, you know, what brought you in here? What's going wrong? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Challenge your doctor about this? And so they finally kicked me out and told me to go find a diabetes educator job.

Scott Benner 24:52
Can I ask you, because I ask of all the people in these that I'm having these conversations with? Why is it so difficult, or why is it so on? reasonable for us to expect a nurse in a hospital to understand how insulin works.

Jeannie 25:05
Because we're complicated people type one diabetes is so complicated. I mean, there are even endocrinologist that don't like type one diabetes, because you can't fix it. You're constantly juggling thinking we doing? You know, did you exercise today or not? Are you stressed? Did your cat wake you up overnight, and so you slept badly. There's so many variables that change our day. And it's almost too much for some people to feel comfortable with. And

Scott Benner 25:41
so it's not it's not taught in nursing or medical school, like nursing school like for I mean, I have a day or a page, they usually tell me when I asked them where you go. But they're also trying to learn everything. And so that's understandable. My question is, after it happens over and over and over again, why does it not get retained?

Jeannie 26:00
Again, I think it's because of the variability. If I talk to your daughter, her practice this is with herself, are very different than mine. I've got people who you may know a Jessica, who is very much into exercise. And the way she handles her insulin is very different than what I need to do to handle my exercise. I just got off the bike and what's my sugar, my sugars, okay. So things are changing so much, Scott. And so quickly, we didn't use to have our blood sugar on our watch. And now we're constantly aware of it. And so we're constantly thinking or, I shouldn't say that. I am constantly thinking some people don't want to think. But then again, with my loop, I don't necessarily need to think about what my blood sugar is because I know it's going to be pretty darn close to where I want it to be.

Scott Benner 26:54
I find that the do it yourself algorithms. My daughter is using Iaps right now, but she used loop for a long time with Otto Bolus branch of loop. Okay. Yeah. I find that with very good settings, a firm understanding of you know, your carb ratios and how to, you know, yes, count your carbs or bulk Bolus, specifically, well, good timing with your insulin. You can generally expect that thing to keep you under 180. And above 50. Oh, definitely. Yeah. And 50 Once in a while, but most of the most of the time she sits between like 80 and 110. Yeah, yeah. It's really something.

Jeannie 27:34
The simpler you keep your the simpler. You keep your life. Yeah, right. Exercise. Don't exercise. Go to a party. Don't go. It's the pumps that really help. Yeah.

Scott Benner 27:45
I'll break your brain for a second. Yeah. So I know. You don't know me that. Well. I know. Somebody drove you to me, Stephen. Yes, introduced us. But I have at this moment when you and I are speaking over 1100 episodes of this podcast are recorded. And available. Yes. Been out for 10 years, right? Yeah, I have been recently feeding the podcast into AI, I guess is the simplest way to ask it. So while you were talking just now I chose an episode of this podcast. That is myself and Jenny Smith. And we have a we're having a conversation just like you and I are but we are specifically talking about how to figure out your insulin to carb ratio. Now we never like it's not bolt. It's not a bullet point conversation. It's just the way you and I are talking right now. I just asked that episode through AI. I said, How do I calculate insulin to carb ratio? That's all I asked him. It told me to calculate your insulin to carb ratio, you can use the 500 rule mentioned in the podcast transcript, here's how you can do it. Number one, determine your total daily insulin dose, which includes both Basal and Bolus insulin, take the number 500 and divide it by your total daily dose of insulin. The result will give you an average insulin to carb ratio. For example, if the result is 16.6, your ratio would be one unit of every of insulin for every 16.6 grams of carbohydrates. Keep in mind that the 500 rule is a starting point vial. And that's it. That's me asking a computer that has listened to that episode of the podcast to come up with that idea. Okay, that's where this stuff is headed. Instead of you having to like there's going to be a time where you can go to a web page and say, I am 150 pound male who is moderately active. What do you think my total daily insulin is? And it's gonna give you a range of where to look for your total daily insulin.

Jeannie 29:40
And that's like the eyelet pump. Yeah, the beta bionics eyelet that's all they want to know your weight. Yep.

Scott Benner 29:46
It's all it's doing. Yeah. So what I learned was, like, it makes me how do I want to put this? I wish that every conversation you've ever had with a kid or with somebody to camp or another adult with type one diabetes I wish you recorded it. I wish we had it. So we could feed it into that and say to it, what are genies Rules for Living well with type one diabetes, because believe it or not, it would come back with a comprehensive list that sounded like you wrote it. It's instant, fascinating, I am working, that's going to be the last thing I do in this space. Before I leave, I'm going to leave a computer behind for people to ask questions to.

Jeannie 30:27
I know my Endo. When I saw her, she asked me, you know, we were talking about having best practices or good ideas, or, you know how to wonderful tips. And there should be a list of wonderful tips. And that's, I think what you're talking about,

Scott Benner 30:43
it's not only going to be able to answer every one of your questions that you can imagine, but it's going to be able to take the information that it knows and tell you what questions you should have. Just in case you don't even know which ones to ask. Wonderful. I'm telling you. It's the it's insane, it will end but it all it all comes down to having recorded making data out of these conversations, because it just occurred to me one day, I started saying it like this. So I have this, I have this big Facebook group, right? It has 45,000 People with diabetes in it, it adds 150 new people every four days. Wow. Every day, there are about 100 to 125 new posts that generate over 8000 comments, hearts and likes every day. And one time this person asked a question. And they said, you know, they asked it, it's a pretty basic question. And someone kind of came in and said, you could search the group for that. And I stopped them. I didn't slap their hand. But I came in, I said, Oh no, you don't want that. You don't want somebody to start searching the group because the group is a living organism. And if people stop interacting in it, then the group dies. And then all the information inside of it goes away with it. And I found myself thinking personally, it's a shame because every question that is ever asked, this group has been answered in that podcast. And they just don't know how to get to it. And then one day, I was listening to an an artificial intelligence expert talking about how they're going to use AI in the future for something. And I thought I could do that with the podcast, that would work. And I know that this is like a generation beyond what you probably think about when you you're thinking about computers. But trust me, I'm going to take community and turn it into actual value for people. beyond what we've done here so far, exciting. It's going to be really exciting for people, I mean, just try to imagine being able to sit at a browser and tell it, I just went on an insulin pump. I weigh this much weight, I'm 15 years old, I get Yes, I get my period. And please give me my settings. And it tells you here's the range to put this, here's the range, but that and everybody just goes in, puts the low range, adjusts it up, gets it to where it needs to be, and they're on their way.

Jeannie 33:02
And then you've got your week before the period. Yeah, a week of your period. And then you've got the Friday night basketball game with being jumping up and down.

Scott Benner 33:14
Yeah, but but but gee, those people are going to be on algorithms. Yeah, it's gonna be different, right? Like, it's a bad week, before your period is going to go from, what 15 years ago was. You know what blood sugars in the 250s spikes into the 300 stuff? You couldn't get down for days? Like that kind of thing? Like, that's gonna turn into I had a 180 blood sugar for a few hours today.

Jeannie 33:39
Yeah, yeah. Maybe that'll be that quick part of AI learning. So that the pump is aware of the calendar. Yep. aware of. Okay, we're starting to see some high blood sugar's calendar. Ah, let's raise the basil a little bit.

Scott Benner 33:58
One of the most exciting things somebody has said to me on this podcast, it's very forward thinking. But he said, Imagine an algorithm that was also location based. That knew that when you were a pizza parlor, a, your insulin needs were greater than when you were a pizza parlor. B. Oh, wow. Yes, yes. And then the next time you're at B, you can tell I'm having two slices of pizza. And it will actually remember what it took last time to do it and and try to mimic it. That's not crazy. With the technology that exists right now. Yeah,

Jeannie 34:35
or just to be able to say, Hey, I'm driving to the park. Yep.

Scott Benner 34:40
Well, that's it. Yeah. Just just to literally be able to pick up your phone and say, I'm leaving now for the park. Yeah. And then the algorithm can experience what you're doing. And then see what happens. And then maybe the third or fourth time you say I'm leaving now for the park. It'll go she's going to the park. I know what to do here. You need somebody to develop that. But it's not crazy. And I guarantee you it comes through the community way before it comes to a company. And

Jeannie 35:07
it's just a little bit better than us remembering. Late to do it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 35:12
Right, half an hour into your walk. And you're like, I didn't do a Temp Basal decrease. Oh,

Jeannie 35:18
oh, wait, big people still do that. Oh, yeah, I

Scott Benner 35:22
hope so people listen to this podcast. I hope they're doing it. We talk all the time. But I think the core of diabetes I don't I don't disregard your point that everybody is different. But I think at its core, if you are Basil is well set. If you know how to Pre-Bolus your meals, if you understand the impacts of different foods. Yes, I think diabetes is pretty similar for most people. At that core stuff. Now there's variables off of that, that will change. But if you can get that stuff together, that's a onesie in the sixes.

Jeannie 35:54
You know, and that's the wonderful thing about listening to other people, they challenge you to try something new, or they confirm what you're doing and make you feel good about it. But it's, you know, it's the community, it's just listening and learning and thinking and not feeling like you're so alone, not feeling like you're just absolutely terrible, because you can't get it right. It's like, this is kind of the way it is. And there is some hope, because this person has a similar situation, and they're pleased now. So I could learn something.

Scott Benner 36:29
Now the community aspect of it is, is so valuable. I've always known it. But I understand it differently. Now, after making this podcast, and actually after building a Facebook group that houses that many people and helps them so much, I can now I really see the value in it. You know, before I just knew it as a as a concept. People need people, you know, all those kinds of basic ideas. But when I watched it happen in real time, then I thought this is much more valuable. This might be half of it. I'm just gonna say a name. I don't most people aren't gonna know. But there's this man named Bennett Dunlap, who did a lot of great things in the diabetes community over the years. And I once was sitting somewhere with him where he said that diabetes is like a certain percent math and a certain percent magic or something like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, and the magic was just your, I think, in his mind, your understanding of how it all worked, you know, like your ability to just kind of bounce through it and get it right.

Jeannie 37:28
Yeah. And what you were saying with community is so much about what people get from camp, because when you're diagnosed, you're so alone. You don't get people. You don't get the share the encouragement, the, the ideas. And and that's just a wonderful thing that parents, and definitely kids get from coming to camp, because it's that everybody's in the same boat. Ya

Scott Benner 37:59
know, it's not lost on me that diabetes camp, and this is crazy, but my Facebook group are basically the same thing. Yeah,

Jeannie 38:06
yeah. It's the sharing.

Scott Benner 38:09
Yeah. It's a place to go to find other people and other voices to get ideas when you don't have them to bounce off things that you're not sure of. To. From my perspective, you can draw confidence from it. Oh, yeah. When you don't have any?

Jeannie 38:24
Yes. That peer support and just the fact that you you can be long, and that you're understood. Very important.

Scott Benner 38:33
Oh, sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Oh, my daughter's blood sugar just went over 120. Don't Don't anybody laugh at me. Oh, she's high. Yeah, it's happening. Oh, this is 121. But even that, her blood sugar just popped up over 120. She's a college. My daughter is, you know, a sophomore in college. And I can tell you, I haven't looked at Ardens diabetes all day. It's almost 1pm here. But by picking up this app, I can tell you that at 1152 Arden Bolus for 40 grams of food. That was 15 minutes ago. She's on a diagonal up right now. So you just heard her across 120 I think the she's at 138 right now. And in a couple of seconds, this algorithm is going to jack or basil up and push back with a small Bolus and it will turn around now here's the crazy thing her 40 gram or 40 gram Bolus ended up being just under five units. Let me do something here with everybody real quick because we made this point earlier. So I hate having to wear glasses Genie if to read like it's like it's now I'm looking back at the computer I needed to be blown off again like I'm Like, why does the screen so blurry? I'm still wearing the stupid glasses. So she's 40. Right? And so 40 carbs. I think maybe her like I said her ratio is 63. Now, back then, one unit did 40 to one unit, what was her insulin to carb ratio before we changed all this right now it's one unit moves her 63 One. Instead of 42. Her insulin to carb ratio used to be this, this might freak you out one unit moved her one unit covered six carbs for this Bolus was a it was 1.6 units less than it would have been before the ozempic. Yeah, and that's, that's just for 40 small carbs. It's really It's great. And there's the spike is the call this a spike is ridiculous. It's a drifting up arrow. Yet, you know, anyway, the tech not so between the technology, and the community. And stuff like this, where I've now had 1000 conversations with people with diabetes, like you even think now, like, you'll look back on your episode, everybody does this, by the way. They look back and they go, Oh, I didn't help. I didn't add anything to it. And I always laugh when I say everybody thinks that. But yet all that information is there and everybody loves it. And I'll ask them like you love the podcast, right? They'll say Yeah, and I was like, Well, what did you get out of it? So that other person's story, I learned this little bit, I learned that little bit, but I didn't say anything today. And I'm like, that's not true. Your stories are really valuable. What we need is the ability to pluck out the gems and and show them to you, you know, so it's all coming. It's happening very quickly. Gee, let me tell you the truth. I'm gonna sit in this room until I can leave something behind that I know my daughter can use. You know what I mean? And the rest of you get to use it too. But, you know, I'm doing it for her. So yeah. Anyway. So tell me something. You still know people from diabetes camp.

Jeannie 42:09
So I went in 65 As a kid, and then, you know, my life as a nurse, and I was working Kaiser and I was helping out with their pediatric diabetes clinic, one day a month. And they, they group, dy, F diabetes youth and families here in California. They offered a back to school conference day for the parents, and it was, you know, August, and I went to, you know, help out with the kids camp, because the counselors from de yf came and took care of the kids while the parents were listening to people talking about going back to school. And I was looking and I saw these pictures. And I said, you know, I might have gone to that camp so long. And the short of that was, well, we need nurses every summer, because each deck of kids has their own nurse. And they said, why don't you come to camp? I don't know. I mostly do adults. And they said, well come to teen camp. So I volunteered for two summers at teen camp, hung out with Dr. Mary Simon, who's the medical director and I just, I just loved it. I hung out with her all day long. I didn't go do the hikes are off to this part and Kings Canyon National Park. I stayed there and just absorbed everything she wanted to teach me. That summer. They were at some point in time, they had a phone conversation, Dr. Steve Gittleman was on the call other nurses and doctors who came and volunteered at camp or on the phone call, because they felt they needed an assistant for Dr. Mary. She was running the medical side of camp all by herself. And it was just too much for one person. So after this phone call, my parting words were well think about who you know who likes camp, who you get along with and who you'd like to spend more time with and give them a call. How are you going to advertise this job? Well, a couple days later, I got the phone call. So I asked my husband I said well, they want me to go to camp, be the assistant Medical Director. It'll be gone for two months every summer. Can I do it? And he said yes. So I started in 2004 and I'll be heading back up in June to do it again. So that's my summer vacation is up at camp. I love it. You've been

Scott Benner 44:37
doing that for 20 years

Jeannie 44:38
or more 20 years Yeah. Wow. Good for you. Oh, it's just you just feel like you you feel like you're in the right place doing the right thing. Talking to people sharing getting people to connect and and share and learn and feel good about themselves. The kids. You It's just it's a break for the parents, the kids are like off playing, or the parents just drop them off, and they go, or they put them on the bus. And so they've got these six or 10 days free, without having to wake up without having to worry about what their kids are doing. And it's so important for everybody. And the kids, the endocrinologist they talk about, you can tell a kid who's gone to camp, they're more talkative, they are more involved in their care, they understand they have confidence in what they're doing. But it just makes such a wonderful growth impact. And every summer that they come back, this change lasts a little longer, until they kind of graduate from camp and come back as counselors to be able to work with the kids. So it's just a wonderful community. And dy F even has a babysitting list.

Scott Benner 46:00
And gee, that's what they get out of it. What do you get out of doing it? Just

Jeannie 46:05
the joy, the joy of being useful? You know, you get up in the morning and can start coming in with bad sites, and you're helping them make a change. Do you want to change? Should we change your site? Do you want to try a different infusion set? I've got a wonderful school nurse who comes up and with the youngest camp, and she's my pump room nurse. So she's in there dealing with these kids too. And it just being useful helping people to feel stronger, better excited.

Scott Benner 46:39
Gee, that's just beautiful. Did you almost cry?

Jeannie 46:42
Yeah.

Scott Benner 46:43
You almost made me cry. And I was like, What the hell's happening?

Jeannie 46:47
I mean, you do you get teary because you think we there's kids who come up and are just angry and unhappy. They don't want to be there. And then as the days go by, they make friends. And then when they leave, they're thinking, wow, yeah, I can come back next summer, or, you know, and we've got a camp coming up. In March, there's a spring retreat, and there's a Fall Retreat, just a weekend thing. But people really like having these little bits of community. Hands on.

Scott Benner 47:20
Oh, my daughter's way college. And yeah, one of the most wonderful moments we, I haven't asked my wife about this, but that I've experienced with her is, it still happens, it happened the other day, she said, I made a friend today. Yeah. And I thought, oh, gosh, she's getting better at things and more mature. And, you know, she's, she's all that great. But she said, I made a friend today. And she was genuinely like, happy about it. You know, and that's such a big, big part of everything.

Jeannie 47:52
I'm gonna do if people you know, the counselors, and the people who have moved on to become staff, or just, you know, keep coming in circling back around, they're still good friends with people that they met at camp. It's almost like your, you know, your college friends that you keep with for years and years and years because of the shared experiences, the shared struggles. Somebody understands.

Scott Benner 48:18
A second ago, you said, it makes me feel useful. Yeah. And it's just gonna sound maybe crazy. But before the holidays this year, my family and I, we were all we were having this conversation. And one of the questions in the conversation was, what's the thing you want to do that you stop yourself from doing that you don't do? You know, something you wanted to try or do or whatever. And I said, I think what, it's I almost surprised myself, but I, I said, I always wanted to chameleon. And they looked at me very strangely. And I said, I understand they're very difficult to take care of. And there's a lot to know. And I'd like to learn something new. And I think they're very interesting. And I like how slowly they move. I think it would be relaxing. It was a philosophical conversation. Obviously, we were just talking out loud. Until my kids take me upstairs on Christmas morning to show me a chameleon they've been hiding in my daughter's bedroom for a number of days. Now, Jeanne, these are severely difficult to take care of no one should buy them like this. I've spent the last three weeks of my life every ounce of my free time. Just immersed in information so that I can do a good job for this thing because I have I have a caregivers mentality with people but with anything really if you put me in charge of somebody, I am not going to stop trying to help them. It took me a couple of days to figure out the basics. I started it's funny I almost did it like diabetes as like well let me figure out what the basics are. So nothing goes wrong in the in the in the first little bit here. And then I'll add my knowledge as I go. And I've done that now. But the other day and my wife said How are you enjoying having the chameleon? And I said, I really like it. I feel useful. Because my kids are older now. And I actually I said to her, I'm like, this thing needs me. And I was like, You don't listen to me. We've known. I mean, Jeanne, I don't know if you're married or not. But I've been married like, 27 years. My wife wasn't a dummy anymore. You know what I mean? Like, she's not listening to me, she, she's an adult, she doesn't need me. And I realized how alone I have felt, since my son went away, graduated, got a job. My daughter's off in college, I feel useless. Some days, even though I help people on a scale that I don't think a lot of people could imagine. It's not the same, because I don't look them in the face when I'm doing it. So, you

Jeannie 50:50
know, and that's what I get out of doing the different support groups. Yeah. People ask questions. And, you know, I'll share what I know. Or I'll say, Okay, well, let me look that up before, like, at the first week of every month, I'm you know, checking out diatribe and taking out a DA, is there anything new coming up? What do I? What questions might they come up with? What can I share? And so it gives me a reason to keep learning myself. Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:21
I find too, that anything I could do that would possibly help someone to not go through everything we went through, to get to the information seems incredibly valuable to me. I wasn't when I started doing this podcast started in 2015. But I've been writing about IBD since 2007. And so when I started making the podcast, my wife was like, This is gonna be a lot of work. And I said, Yeah, I know. But he imagined knowing all this and not telling somebody that seems wrong, doesn't it? You know, and, and that's sort of how I look at it. You know, so finding a way to share Yeah, yeah, finding a way to share something, and I think And now, the people listening, do it for me, too. It's facilitated. Um, the one thing that I don't know if you've had this experience or not, it's very fulfilling. I watched somebody ask a question online. And then before I can get to it to answer five other people answer it. And they sound like they're talking out of my mouth. Like, they're using my thoughts, the things I said, to answer this question accurately, and, and they're being supportive and lovely at the same time. And I think, Oh, I, I created, like helpers. Oh, yeah. You know, like, I'm going to help people that don't even ever hear the podcast. And it just makes me smile, like to think that kids who are recently diagnosed and adults who have been struggling for 30 years, they all end up having the same experience after they listen to the podcast. And so to think of all those people who are doing well in the world is is really lovely. It's a it's a great feeling. And you you've been doing it for a long time.

Jeannie 53:04
Yeah. And you probably remember when when you were diagnosed, you just were afraid your daughter, you know, this, how can you keep this little girl healthy and happy and growing? And to be so alone, and so scared. And so that's where, you know, getting this community going, finding the resources, you know, having, like up at Camp endocrinologist to talk to counselors who have had type one diabetes for many years, and just other families, and how do they make it work? And it's just the value of community? Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:41
no cage. It's hard to believe, I think for some people, especially newer people, and I've even seen people say, I don't want to do that, like, I don't meet a bunch of people, I don't know. And, like, I get that overall feeling. I have to honestly, how are you? If I wasn't doing this? I don't think I'm the type of person who would go to a Facebook group to get help. Like, I don't know that I am, or I'm not like, I just, I'm not sure. But what I ended up seeing is that honestly, most people interact quietly. They're looking, they're reading, they're learning, they're following. They are not talking most of the time. You don't actually hear from them. And that that that's pretty amazing. Because in person, you have to engage people eye to eye, and if somebody's in the back of the room and not listening, there's not much you can do about them about helping them hopefully, or reasonably speaking. Yeah, this is different. Like, this is like you're broadcasting it somewhere. And they don't have to tell anybody. Yeah. Like there are people listening right now, in their cars in their ears, who have the people around them don't know they have diabetes, correct. You know, and so that gives them that freedom to which is a is a big deal. It addresses a lot of different roadblocks that people have getting to the good information, and the community to Something

Jeannie 55:00
that I try to remind people, you know, when I'm talking to them about coming to one of my Facebook groups is like, you don't have to show them your picture. You don't have to be there. You don't have to talk. But just listen. And if you have a question, then you can ask it, you can ask it in the chat, you don't need to be seen. But just come and listen,

Scott Benner 55:23
I left the anonymous function on on my group, because as it's problematic sometimes, but for the most part, I think people should be allowed to ask their questions without giving up their identity if they want to write because I think otherwise they wouldn't be able to do it.

Jeannie 55:40
Because there's a lot of things that we're ashamed of, we think we should be able to do this better. But dad, gummit, we just, we just don't do the right thing. And does anybody have any ideas?

Scott Benner 55:53
So yeah, no, it's very, it's very helpful. So if I was going to ask you, what do you think the keys are to diabetes? You've been living with it for a long time. Can I ask you what your agency is first? I'm usually 5.9 ish. You have an eating style?

Jeannie 56:10
A low carb, low carb.

Scott Benner 56:11
Have you been low carb for a long time?

Jeannie 56:14
Yes. I read Richard Bernstein's book, oh, golly, probably 30 years ago, and I just thought, you know, that makes sense.

Scott Benner 56:25
And it worked for you. It's

Jeannie 56:27
less insulin, less error. It just works for me. Yeah. And but I know that a lot of people that doesn't work for but that's okay. Works for me.

Scott Benner 56:38
Well, obviously work. I mean, that that whole concept is, is rock solid, you know, the fewer carbs you eat the lessons when you're going to use lessons, when you use the less variability, you'll see pure lows, you'll have to correct like that all this obviously, it's obvious,

Jeannie 56:52
right? And I love vegetables. So that's a great, thanks, hope it's easier for you.

Scott Benner 56:55
I see. I always when I started the podcast, I started with the idea that I wasn't going to be able to impact how people ate wasn't going to be able to impact how they exercised, like those lifestyle things. Those are, those are bigger problems in the world that, you know, smarter people than me have not been able to figure out. Right? How do you mass teach that kind of health to people and forced compliance basically. And I thought I couldn't do that. That's silly. I'm going to say, it's how you use insulin. Get your settings, right, learn how to use insulin, apply it to your lifestyle, because whether you whether you get up in the morning and have a plate full of vegetables and an egg, or you get up in the morning, and you're I don't know walking out of a, you know, a convenience store with a soda and a honey bun in your hand. You don't deserve diabetes complications, you know? Yeah. Right. So you,

Jeannie 57:54
how can you use the insulin so that you're happy with your life?

Scott Benner 57:59
Yeah, that's it super simple, like so that's, that's my perspective, always. And always learn how to use insulin so you can do what you want to do with it. Yes, I'm not the food police. I'm not the exercise police. I don't, that seems like an unwinnable job. To me. That's just where I've come from. And I found that generally speaking, that message from that perspective has been really well received by a lot of people.

Jeannie 58:24
If somebody gets really happy by having apple pie almost every Sunday for dinner, and that's what, you know, they, we they look forward to and they want to pick up their Starbucks every morning. And it just it helps them start their day. Yeah. Go for it.

Scott Benner 58:45
Yeah, cuz if you take that from them, you're gonna, you're gonna get into the psychological side of this, then,

Jeannie 58:50
ya know, there's there's enough, we've got to, you know, we've got to deal with with insulin, no matter how you take it. There's quite a few people I know who are on MDI. And they feel that that works for them.

Scott Benner 59:03
I know plenty of people who do well on MDI. Yeah, and the truth is the podcast with the exception of talking about an algorithm, or an extended Bolus, or the ability to shut off your Basal use, you have all the same options that everybody else does. You know, yeah, it all comes down to how frequently you're willing to inject.

Jeannie 59:23
Yeah, yeah. If you don't mind being a pink ocean, you like doing the math in your head. You can keep track of insulin on board or you've got an in pen that keeps that for you. It's doable.

Scott Benner 59:36
Yeah. It's incredibly doable. Actually, you have to be right for it.

Jeannie 59:40
For sure. And then that's the fun reason to be able to share is so that people can learn that this is out there. All right, our medical team, our endo team is not necessarily going to say, you know you like doing shots have you thought about using an ink pen? Or an eye port?

Scott Benner 59:58
Yeah, those are saying around in pens a great tool, by the way. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It gives you a lot of functionality of, of an algorithm actually, then you know me you get to see stuff on your on the phone app and make better decisions keeping track of things for you, showing you where insulin is, you can compare what you've done to what you're seeing and make different decisions next time. There's, there's a lot of value in that, you know, it's funny, we the way we talk about it, you'd think overwhelmingly, the people with type one diabetes are wearing pumps, but that's not true. Actually, up at camp,

Jeannie 1:00:30
it's probably about 75 80% of the kids are on pumps. But

Scott Benner 1:00:35
I mean, in the world, like, overall, I think the percentage is low, actually. Yeah,

Jeannie 1:00:40
the Bay Area, you know, just there's, there's a lot of people on pumps here, but you go out into the lower populated communities, and you're not necessarily going to happen endo team that feels comfortable with pumps. And so they're not going to prescribe them because they just don't know them. You

Scott Benner 1:00:58
know, it's funny, I tell the story sometimes. But when my daughter was four, we wanted to put on an insulin pump before she started kindergarten. Sure. And we went to basically an insulin pump fair at the Children's Hospital. It's exactly what it was actually. And this is 2009. And around then maybe, and Omnipod, was a very new company. And there were all these pumps laid out on these tables, they almost felt like they were under glass with a spotlight on them, like you were walking through a museum. And then back in the corner of this room, in this cutout corner of this room on a table, there was a box that looked like I the way I always put his it looked like somebody was told take this box and put it on that table in the corner, but they got 10 feet from the corner and didn't want to walk anymore and threw it at the wall and it bounced on the table. Like that's how it was sitting there. And I went over and looked at that, and it was an omni pod. And I brought my wife over and I said, I think this makes a lot of sense to me. I was like, there's no tubes. And if the company makes upgrades to it, I'm like, What are they gonna do make like 17 versions of this, you're always gonna get the newer upgrade, right? Like that makes sense to me like this looks forward thinking. These were my ideas. And I went to the nurse who said, Which one have you decided on? I said, we're gonna get this on the pod. And she goes, Oh, don't do that. Now this again, a long time ago, you know? And I said, why not? She goes, and she looks at art. And she was she's too lean for that. And I said, Well, we're going to try it anyway, and took it away. Two years later, at an appointment, after our appointment was over, the nurse practitioner pulled me aside and said, I want you to know that based on the results that Arden has had on Omni pod, we are now going to start prescribing it to the other kids in this practice. So yours Wow, years later, and I said, Can I ask you? Why did you try to stop me when we got it? And she got almost embarrassed and said, well, it was newer, and we didn't know much about it. And we didn't want you using a pump. We didn't know how to support. I said, but that's not what you said what you said was she was too lean for it. Yeah.

Jeannie 1:03:05
Yeah. was six years ago, I realized that I was hearing more about loop. And I thought and one summer I had two campers, and one family on loop. And I said, Genie, how can you be the camp nurse and not know, Luke. So I came home I saw rayhaan law from Stanford at a fair that was happening. And he was working with someone on loop and I said, you guys, I need to learn this. And so they connected me with a counselor who was in a study at Stanford and who wasn't using her loop and they said borrow hers. So two weeks later, after trying it out. I thought, Dad gummit it works for me. So I ordered my own, and I've been on it ever since. And now I've just been talking with beta bionics. I said, I need to know eyelet I need to wear it, I need to experience it. Because there's already one dy F family using this eyelet pump. So I need to be able to problem solve or answer their questions. So hopefully I'll be able to get on one. Yeah. And just wear it for a couple of months. I'm

Scott Benner 1:04:19
gonna have people on who have worn it, that it's hard to find them at the moment, but I'm looking for them to have them on.

Jeannie 1:04:25
Katie Kraft from Oakland children's sees She's a child life specialist. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:04:32
tell her to contact me. I'll have her on. I'd love to hear about it. So my expectation about it. And I've interviewed this CEO, I actually did a very long interview with him. And my expectation is, for most people, especially those who are not doing well, this is going to give you an A one C and the sevens and that that's going to be magical for you because you've had an eight a 910 11 and 12 Whatever your a one C's been

Jeannie 1:04:59
That seems to be for me also that population. Yeah. And I think that's really

Scott Benner 1:05:05
magical. Dangerous. Yeah. Right, just you're gonna save people's lives, and they're not going to know their lives are being saved. Like, that's, that's a big deal to me. You know, like, because it's easy to say, I help people in a Facebook group, or I help people at a diabetes camp, or I have a podcast that reaches all these people, Jeannie, I'm pretty comfortable telling you that I'm reaching more people with diabetes, and probably the next five people reaching a lot of people combined. And I am not reaching nearly a small percentage of them. You know, most people are not putting this kind of effort into their health. And if you could take away that, then I think you've really done something at that point for the population. Yeah,

Jeannie 1:05:50
that's, that's gonna be exciting, ya

Scott Benner 1:05:52
know, for sure. Now, you gotta get on him. And I told him when we were talking, in fairness, he he already knew. But I said, I think you're gonna have to, like, target general practitioners, because most people aren't even going to an endocrinologist who said, Yeah, I was talking about I talk that I, you know, that that, to me makes sense. Like, I think his pathway to like expansion is, is talking GPS into putting these things on to them. You know, because they're going to have more interaction with people than the endos are going to a lot of times, right, you gotta get a common place so that you can help them. You know, and you're not gonna help everybody, obviously, but I think you have a good chance at reaching a population of people who are otherwise not going to be helped. That's

Jeannie 1:06:35
one of the exciting things about, you know, being able to share, this is available, check it out. It could make your life a little more livable. 10 years from now. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:06:46
yeah, no, kidding. Are a lot, honestly. I mean, seriously, I mean, is there any way you're a once he was better than seven when you were in high school? In college? No, right?

Jeannie 1:06:56
Luckily, we have no idea. Luckily,

Scott Benner 1:06:58
we have no idea to me, it's like, I don't want the answer to that question.

Jeannie 1:07:02
Yeah, just like a typical high school kid, you know, eating wrong food. I remember taking a grapefruit and having that for lunch at school. You know, it was like, How is this enough carbs, you know, for the insulin that you took?

Scott Benner 1:07:19
So you feel lucky to be alive? Sometimes? Yes,

Jeannie 1:07:22
I do. I feel very blessed. But it was just, you know, having a supportive family. Because that family team, you know, starts out being so important. When your kids are little, they they need to be helped encouraged. You know, we've got kids, like when your daughter was 12, you probably were a team, you helped her with all the diabetes tasks. Sure. But some kids by eight 910, it's that yo, yo, you're on your own. I've got too many other things or I don't understand. And so it's creating that attitude of can do, and having the support. So I

Scott Benner 1:08:08
agree, I mean, because what you're saying is, it's almost depressing. But, you know, everybody doesn't get a parent who's on top of it.

Jeannie 1:08:17
Yeah, my mom didn't work. So that was a, you know, a wonderful blessing that was still in the era when you didn't have to have two jobs of a house. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:08:26
I I often tell people that a lot of the value that I bring to diabetes is because I actually was a stay at home parent, I was able to focus on it, and really figure it out. And then once I figured it out, I was able to write about it, which taught me how to talk about it. And then like, you know, I had the upper. I always tell people if you want to thank somebody thank my wife, because she was paying the bills while I was doing this. Wait. Yeah, yeah, you just get some luck there. Honestly. Yeah,

Jeannie 1:08:52
that parent thing. I have two people in my life. One was a social worker from UCSF, used to come up to camp every summer and talked about kids in the foster system, who had no support or could not be adopted because they were chat. They everyone felt challenged by type one diabetes. And there's another lady currently who is retiring from being a foster parent, but she's had quite a few kids through her house, because she has type one herself. And she understands and can encourage and lead. She was saying, Do you know of any foster parents who would be I've got a gal who needs a home and it's like, oh, Lord. You

Scott Benner 1:09:39
know, it's funny when you say that, doesn't it make more sense to just have one home where everybody with type one goes and you send a few people who understand them in six months, you can get them helped and able to handle themselves so that they are adoptable at that point. Oh, yeah. Why does nobody fix things the way that makes sense?

Jeannie 1:09:59
Yeah, no, they There's too much bureaucracy probably. Yeah. Just making sure you've got a wonderful type one family who would be more than happy to take in a kid. But they're not licensed as a foster family. So yeah, I understand. But dad gummit you need to the kids

Scott Benner 1:10:16
gonna end up in a bad way. Like, oh, yeah, sure, yeah. You're not just gonna randomly figure out diabetes by yourself. Oh,

Jeannie 1:10:24
heavens, no, no, it's way too complicated. Yeah, it needs to be felt doable.

Scott Benner 1:10:33
Yeah. And then you need some tools, you know, you need to know when to use them. And then you have to have a couple of successes. So you can build on top of them, get a little self confidence, start making decisions about numbers and, and then you're on your way.

Jeannie 1:10:45
Yeah, confidence was a word that just came into my head when we started this little this point, the confidence to know that you can do this. Yeah. So important. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:57
Just the feeling that it's going to work out. You know, it's funny. When I talk to people, when they're really newly diagnosed, and I'm in private, if I get a good vibe from them, I'll tell them at the end, like, You're gonna be fine. I can tell. And they're like, how can you tell? I'm like, well, you're asking questions, and you seem interested in the answers. I think that'll get that'll that'll get you there.

Jeannie 1:11:18
That's exactly what I was said in my head, you're asking questions, you want to learn more, you want to feel like this is your disease, and you're sharing your life with it. But you're leading. It's

Scott Benner 1:11:33
the desire to do better, and the effort it takes? Oh,

Jeannie 1:11:36
because it does. And then it finally becomes second nature in a way. Oh, that's what

Scott Benner 1:11:43
I say all the time. Eventually, you won't think about it, you'll just a thing will happen. And the next thing you do will be the right thing. And that's that it's i i describe the way I think about diabetes now. It's like walking out of a out of a room with a closed door. I do not, my brain does not say walk towards the door, stop, reach out, grab the knob, turn it off, pull the door, walk through the door. That's not how I walk through a closed door. It just happens. I've done it so many times. It just happens, right? And diabetes is the same for me when stuff happens. I can look, assess, and answer in a split second. Doesn't come right away. But it does come. You need the experiences. You have to have them over and over again. You have to not beat yourself up when something goes the way you don't want it to but step back and say alright, this is what happened. What did I want to happen? What obvious thing which one of these tools would have changed that? And then eventually, one day, you don't have to think like that anymore. Just you just walk through the door. So

Jeannie 1:12:45
yep. Anyway, resources, resources to learn.

Scott Benner 1:12:48
It's all you need. You are delightful. Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have? Yes.

Jeannie 1:12:55
What do you got? Scholarships, oh, camps are expensive. The reason why families don't necessarily go to campus because transportation can be an issue, and the cost. And they're each the different camps that I called, do have their own scholarships. So most camps have their scholarships. So once you apply that would be a part of the application. And the fact that transportation I know that dy F has buses, there's a bus that leaves Pleasant Hill and San Francisco and Fresno, so picks up kids at different areas, and drives up into the mountains. So that was the most valuable thing. And if people want to learn more about diabetes camps, or why to go to diabetes camps, just put that question into your browser, why go to diabetes camp, because there are plenty of papers and studies out there that talk about the things, the blessings onto the children what they come away with, and how valuable that is to their health and confidence. So just encouraging people to research and there's DECA diabetes exercise and camping Association, they hold a yearly conference. So for all the diabetes camps around the world, people can come together and share best practices or their challenges. You know, how are you how did you manage COVID You know, talking about you know, what are you going to do so that you can open up camp again, it's just so worth it to think about so maybe even check for weekend situations. Weekend camp,

Scott Benner 1:14:39
see because I still had the browser open in front of me I just asked an AI model. Why is diabetes camp valuable and it came up with eight bullet points, education, peer support, empowerment, skill development, fun and recreation, networking for families building resilience, safe environment.

Jeannie 1:14:55
Hey, I've got those words written down on my paper right here too.

Scott Benner 1:14:59
Is that Crazy. And that sounds telling you Genie, it's all gonna happen just like this. One day you are going to a doctor is gonna say, Holy God, you have type one diabetes, and they're gonna spin to a computer and say, How much do you weigh? And they're going to type it a little bit, and they're going to boom, here, do this. By the way, that is the basis. That's me. I know you don't know this, but I have a Pro Tip series. Oh, fun. Is it episode 1000? In the podcast? Yes.

Jeannie 1:15:27
Yes, yes. Scott was talking or even talking, talking about,

Scott Benner 1:15:31
he's a fan of it. And I very much appreciate it when he talks about it. I guarantee if you listen to that, you're a one cog in the sexes. And like, like, that idea is just, you know, amazing. So I asked this AI model, what are the key takeaways from these episodes? And it breaks them down for me. And then I said, Can you also give them to me in Spanish? And there they were? Can I have them in Hindi? And there they were. Yeah. And I thought, this has been the one sticking point I've had making this podcast all on, people come to me all the time and say, Can you translate it and I'm like, I don't speak another language. And, you know, having someone translate, it's impossible, like, you'd have to hire two voice actors. And it would just be incredibly expensive. And I don't think it would even work. And then all of a sudden, this computer technology comes along, and I just say to it, hey, what are the key takeaways? Tell them to me in Spanish, too. And there they were?

Jeannie 1:16:27
Well, we're lucky that we've got, you know, here in the Bay area of California there. It's a large Hispanic population also. And so there are two, usually two camps every year that are done in Spanish. Excellent, because there's enough nurses and doctors who are fluent in Spanish. And that's such a huge, do

Scott Benner 1:16:50
you know that those people are in such need of that kind of help. I was once flown to the Dominican Republic, to give a talk about diabetes, to a group of people that overwhelmingly did not speak English. And while I was speaking, there was a translator in a in a soundproof booth. And she was I was speaking and then I was watching her speak, and everyone in the audience was wearing headphones. They were listening to her not to me. That is the kind of effort that had to happen for that to go on. Like, and now just boom, hey, can you translate this, they say, by the way, soon, Jean, you're gonna be able to like, pull out your cell phone while you're talking to a person who's speaking another language. You're gonna be able to speak into the phone in English, and it's going to spit out what you're saying in another language, and then hear them and then tell you what they're saying. Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy. What a lie. I'm gonna try to stay alive longer. I want to see what's gonna happen next.

Jeannie 1:17:51
Hey, I've easily got 20 more years in me for you. I

Scott Benner 1:17:55
bet you do. Alright, well, thank you so much for doing this. I really do appreciate that. What

Jeannie 1:17:58
up joy? Thank you so much for your patience with me. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:18:02
you mean your emails? They were not What do you say? I just don't answer them. So I will apologize to you at the end. I am not not responsive. I get so much email. I get over I get overwhelmed by it.

Jeannie 1:18:13
I figured Yeah. Well, Steven answered me on one of them. So that was helpful. Good.

Scott Benner 1:18:17
Do you know what episode seven was in? No, I don't either. He's so good. I love talking to him about diabetes. He

Jeannie 1:18:25
comes up to our adult we have an adult weekend. He's involved in some of the support groups that I the Zoom groups that I do, so I get to see him a couple times a month.

Scott Benner 1:18:37
Yeah, he's in Episode 828. It's called Steven Appleseed.

Jeannie 1:18:41
There we go. Thank you for 28 Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:18:44
thank you for doing this. Hold on one second for me. Okay. Yes.

A huge thanks to touched by type one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Check them out on their website touched by type one.org or on Facebook and Instagram. A huge thanks to us Matt for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us med.com/juice box. This is where we get our diabetes supplies from you can as well use the link or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med. I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Get the only implantable sensor for long term wear get ever since. If you are a loved one was just diagnosed with type one diabetes and you're looking for some fresh perspective. The bold Beginning series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to start. That series is with myself and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a CDC es a registered dietician and a type one for over 35 years. And in the bowl beginning series, Jenny and I are going to answer the questions that most people have after type one diabetes diagnosis. The series begins at episode 698. In your podcast player, where you can go to juicebox podcast.com and click on bold beginnings in the menu. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com