#1496 Transference, Sorta
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Erika and Scott discuss how our past shapes diabetes conversations.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back friends to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.
Today, my conversation with Erica Forsyth is focused on the things that impact us and how we communicate online and in our personal lives, nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. I know this is gonna sound crazy, but blue circle health is a non profit that's offering a totally free virtual type one diabetes clinical care, education and support program for adults 18 and up. You heard me right, free. No strings attached, just free. Currently, if you live in Florida, Maine Vermont, New Hampshire, Ohio, Delaware, Missouri, Alabama, Mississippi, Iowa or Louisiana, you're eligible for blue circle health right now, but they are adding states quickly in 2025 so make sure to follow them at Blue circle health on social media and make yourself familiar with blue circle health.org. Blue circle health is free. It is without cost. There are no strings attached. I am not hiding anything from you. Blue circle health.org, you know why they had to buy an ad. No one believes it's free. Today's episode is sponsored by the tandem Moby system with control iq plus technology, if you are looking for the only system with auto Bolus, multiple wear options and full control from your personal iPhone. You're looking for tandems, newest pump and algorithm. Use my link to support the podcast, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, check it out. The episode you're about to enjoy was brought to you by Dexcom, the Dexcom g7 the same CGM that my daughter wears. You can learn more and get started today at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox, Erica, for the very first time, I have no idea how to start our conversation. So as you and I have been off Mike for 10 minutes trying to figure out how to start it, I was like, we should just record us trying to figure it out,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:18
which makes sense, because this is a complicated and can be confusing topic. Yeah, even in our challenge of trying to define it and identify and give it this beautiful intro that kind of mirrors the experience that we might have as we talk about it, and also the experience that you might have understanding it.
Scott Benner 2:35
So I'll just let people behind the curtain. Apparently, at some point in the past, I just texted the word transference to Erica, and I said, remember this, which not valuable now in hindsight, but then when I you know, I take the moment to look at the actual definition of transference. I realize it's very specific to therapy, right? And I think that if I read the definition I have, there's a part where, if I just cuddle off and don't go the rest of the way, it gets us into the idea. So transference says, Here is the psychological concept in which a person unconsciously redirects feelings, expectations or desires from past relationships onto someone in the present. Then it says, often a therapist. Now that's where we need to forget that part, like so forget the often the therapist part, and actually forget the transference part. I'm more interested in the idea of how we take the feelings we're having and then put them onto somebody else, and then, at times, use that as a I don't know an agreement with ourselves that it's okay now to be harsh in return. I see it online. I see it when people talk about their physicians. I see it when physicians talk about their patients. Sometimes I've had some anonymous doctors come on and speak. I'll never forget the first time it happened, I asked an anonymous doctor, like, you know, what's the problem with the health care system? And their opinion was, the patients don't want to take care of themselves. And like, you know, I don't think that that's obviously everybody, but it was an overwhelming enough perspective that this doctor had, they were willing to say it out loud, and it almost stopped them from thinking about the rest of the implications around the idea. And anyway, I think we just start talking, we're going to find our way through this. I think it's an important topic, even though I don't know what to call it at the moment.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:25
Yes, it was we, as you mentioned, transference is is a concept that is named and identified, and as a therapist, you're trained to be aware of that, but it certainly occurs in all of our relationships, our romantic relationships, our peers, our co workers maybe to clarify the difference between transference, which is your feelings desires from your past that are usually from past relationships or experiences that you're putting on to the person you're connecting with in the moment, versus projection, which. Is how you're feeling in the moment, and putting that on the other person, and it doesn't have anything to do with past relationships or past trauma or past attachment. You just as the example we were talking about earlier, you wake up on the wrong side of the bed. You're kind of grumpy, irritable. You go out into the world, you interact with your checker, and you might say something kind of maybe sharp, unknowingly or unconsciously, and you walk out and you say to yourself, gosh, that checker was really kind of irritable and bitter, but really it was you. Yeah, it was you. What's
Scott Benner 5:29
wrong with projection? Right, right. Okay,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:31
which happens most a lot of the time, what we're experiencing is projection and having that awareness, and even sometimes in a lot of you know, marriages, a good intervention is like you say, oh, P card, you're, you know, to interrupt as soon as you feel like your partner is putting that on you. Of like your partner, you know, they're stressed, they're having a stressful day, and they're putting that anxiety or stress on you. You can just, you know, say, up on the P card instead of the D card, as we often Erica, you're saying the
Scott Benner 6:00
p and the p and the D card. And I think we're thinking about different things. So what do those stand
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:06
for? The projection card. Oh my gosh, you just made me blush. Sorry, no, so that's projection. And it's, it happens all the time, and it's simple to a be aware of and then interrupt and intervene without getting into it with your colleague or partner. So that's, that's projection. What we're talking about is, most of the time, I think, in our examples in comp and conversation today, is the transference, which is really from your past, your experiences, that you might have developed coping mechanisms. We've talked about, you know, attachment styles, and we've talked about past trauma, that is all part of that's all at play, yeah, in transparency, that's
Scott Benner 6:58
where it touches the diabetes for me, like that part of where the things that have happened to you in the past really do flavor how I see people responding to things, and I think it just needs to be spoken about, because I think you're holding yourself back sometimes, and at the same time, you could be holding back other people. And I'll maybe talk more about that in a little bit, but I guess for me, the idea is that you know how they say, if there are 10 people that witnessed a crime, and you interview all 10 of them, you get 10 different descriptions of what actually happened, because people's perspectives are different. That idea always interests me in my personal relationships, because when I'm in a group of people, or even if we're not all together, but we're a family, or, you know, an extended family, or, you know, people you work with, or something. It's always in the back of my mind that what I think is happening right now, no matter what it is, is not what they think is happening right now, not exactly you know what I mean like. And so you can say something, you mean something in a very to you is a very pointed way, and then come to realize six months later that that's not how that person took that so life is always moving. It's nebulous, right? It feels like you're doing one thing, but something else is really happening. That person thinks something else is happening. You've got two kids, they see it a completely different way. But in your mind, the story is being written one way, and in everyone else's mind, it's being written a different way and no lie. If you brought them all together and compared them, it's incredibly possible that their description of their life with you would not be even reminiscent of your description of your life with them. Anyway, I don't say that to make a further point, other than I find it valuable to keep that in the back of my head while I'm interacting with people. Then we go into like, private Facebook group situations or online places. And some simple examples that are the most obvious are if a person talks about in any way, shape or form, cutting out any food from anybody's life. Someone who grew up with an eating disorder will have a very vicious response to that, and I know why they are doing it, like they think they're defending someone against having to go through the trouble that they went through, right and maybe are still going through. Sometimes it just devolves into things I don't understand, like somebody will just misuse a word, or their intent will come off, you know, halfway the way they meant it to, and halfway not. And I use this as an example before we started recording, so I'll say it again. It's happened last night. It's going to happen again tomorrow. Someone in my private Facebook group is going to have a reaction to something that, no matter how many different ways I try to look at it, I do not understand what in the hell they're talking about. They're angry or upset with another person, and I've tried to read the entire thread. I've tried to read it in different tones in my head. Like, how could they have maybe interpreted these words? I can't find it, but man, they're pissed. And it feels like, at that point, it feels like a street beating. At that point, like, Oh, my God, am I? Fans are going, I'm not stopping till the cops get here. Like that's how it feels. The Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and it features a lightning fast 30 minute warm up time. That's right from the time you put on the Dexcom g7 till the time you're getting readings. 30 minutes. That's pretty great. It also has a 12 hour grace period so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. 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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:22
Yes. And oftentimes those things might occur when we're responding way too quickly. We're reacting right and not responding. And we don't know, nor maybe it is that person aware of how they were feeling from the day, yeah, and then we don't know how what that person's history is and they were maybe reminded oftentimes, someone might say or do something that reminds you of, perhaps a parent or a past romantic relationship, and your body because of how we're how our nervous system works, you're trained, and perhaps that's how you survived. We've talked a lot about this in our resilience series, in order to survive, you had all these adaptive skills, and maybe it was to come out with your hands up, yeah, and your and your mouth going, and then soon, along the lines, you realize, maybe these aren't, these are now maladaptive, but they kept you alive for so long. So that's part of trauma, but then you're also, it's also transference in that moment, if that's what's happening. Obviously, we don't know if that was happening for this person, but oftentimes pausing and thinking, Gosh, I really want to, you know, rip into this person, either verbally or on Facebook, like, what is that? What is happening within me that I want to do that is that because I'm tired, stressed, maybe? Is that because this person is reminding me of my mother and this is how I responded to her, or does this person really, are they really saying something harsh? But I want to say, I'm going to respond in a maybe more clear way. Do you
Scott Benner 13:52
have any idea how many times when somebody is actually saying something that I look at and I go, Okay, I see how that's harsh, and I'll respond back to them. Like, if you could just be a little kinder here. And they're like, kinder. What are you talking about? I'm like, wait you. You weren't doing that on purpose. Somebody asked me recently online, I did a Q A the other night, which I do a lot of times, and someone just asked me, why or how am I, like, so good at moderating the group their opinion? Like, well, how do you do this? Why are you so good at it? How come it seems easy while you're doing it, why aren't you pissed right now? Like, that kind of vibe? And I in a couple of things. So first of all, I'm older, so I grew up when people actually spoke to each other. You know, you don't text JK to somebody if you want to tell them you're just joking. I grew up in a world where, like, if I wanted to talk to my grandmother when I was 10, I had to get on the phone with her and talk to her. And then when I got there and we saw her, there was nothing to do, so we spoke to each other, right? Like, you know, like, you didn't, like, just run off and do a thing. People all the time are like, I'm so anxious. Like, I feel like I can't get anything accomplished. You feel like there's a million things to do. That's the like, the crux of the problem is that today, there's so much to do, but back. Back then and have anything to do Erica, so we talk to each other, right? And so I know how to speak to people, and then I know how to hear something that I don't like, and then have to respond back into that person's face, you know, not like, Oh yeah, well, you like, it's not like, it's easier to type it out. And people will say that, like, Oh, they're keyboard warriors, which I think is an easy excuse, because I still don't think they think they're being shitty. When the person said, How do you do this? I said, I always assume, if someone's making me upset, that I've misunderstood them. And even if I haven't, that assumption keeps me out of an argument. That's it. I always think there's no way they meant to make me upset. Now there are some people who do mean to make me upset, but they're very, very much so fewer and more far between than you imagine. Most people are not trying to piss you off. They're not trying to stick a, you know, a finger in your eye. They're just saying a thing. Their communication is not great, their wording wasn't right. Maybe they just missed a comma and it just threw off the whole thing for you. You know what I mean? But like, that's how I do it. My assumption is no one is trying to purposely make me upset, and if I feel like that, I should just try to clarify. Because in the clarification process. They often learn that you didn't understand what they were saying, and then you just kind of get it back over. Now ask me if I can do that in my personal life. Not so much. It's not that easy, but, but I'm very good at it online. I mean, I grew up in a time when, like I said, not only did you have to speak to people, but once the Internet became a thing. It was all long form conversations, all forums and people telling stories and responding back thoughtfully and editing their thoughts like, you know, now it's just, you know what I mean, like, it's five emojis. Can mean, like, you know, 20, you know, a paragraph, right? And that's it like. And I do think that the world is moving so quickly at this point that everything's a hot take at this point. You know what I mean? I don't know.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:06
Yes, yeah, we're we're moving too quickly, reacting all the time without pausing. And you have learned and trained yourself and yes, online to to pause, assume the best case scenario in how that person is communicating, and that's and then if you don't understand, you're clear, asking, seeking for clarification. I'm
Scott Benner 17:29
sorry. What did you mean? Listen, I've done it the past, and they're like, they think you're being sarcastic. There are people who, if you're being kind to them, assume you're fucking with them, because they are so unaccustomed to somebody being kind to them. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:45
I could think, I can. I've read, I've observed, okay, yes, yeah, yeah,
Scott Benner 17:49
no, you come back and say, hey, look, I'm really sorry. Or, like, you have this long conversation. At the end, you say, I hope you have a great day. And they're like, what's that mean? Like, Oh, I meant, I hope you have a great day. But I really meant that. And they can't even, like, sometimes they can't even absorb that. They think you must be screwing with them if you're telling them have a great day at the end, like, my god, like, are you hearing sarcasm where it doesn't exist? That's horrible. And that's what I see. Sometimes people think, Oh, I know what they meant by that, but I gotta tell you a secret. They don't know what they meant by that. So I'm pretty sure you don't know, like, nobody's that thoughtful anymore when they're when they're conversating like that, like some people are, but yes, but often you just you're saying the first thing. You're doing it with your thumbs. You're doing it while you're cooking. When I did that Q A that came up with that question, I was doing a Q A on this keyboard, on that monitor, while on this keyboard and this monitor, I was doing something else. And, no lie, I had a football game on while I was doing it, and I still go to sleep thinking I wasted some of my life today, but I did. I did more that day than probably, you know, in a week that I used to do before all this existed. So, so is that part of it? Is it, you know what I mean? Like, do you think we've raised a generation of people who aren't great face to face communicators anyway, and then skipped over the face to face and asked them to do what I think is a more difficult form of communication, which is in writing?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:13
Oh, boy, that's probably part of it, right? With this development and rapid growth of online communication and social media. But even before that, transference still existed. Yeah, and perhaps now we don't have as much, you know, mass experience of practicing in real time, in face to face time, as much as we did, perhaps 20 years ago, even I was wondering if it would be interesting to talk about or give examples of how transference might play out. I know we want to bring it whole in the context of diabetes, but I just have these three examples that I think could be interesting to talk about. How okay in a work relationship, a person with a. Strict, demanding parent. So as a child, you grew up with a strict, demanding parent. Now you're in a work environment, you might assume that your supervisor or manager will always find fault in your work, even when you're receiving that positive feedback. So it's kind of a way to think about like your lens. So that's how you're placing right your past experience of having a really strict, demanding parent. You're now redirecting that experience and the feelings you had towards your parent, towards your supervisor or manager, that no matter what they say, even if they're like, Great job today, or like, Have a good day, right, or like, you really did great in that presentation, all you're really assuming or thinking is that they're always finding fault. The other idea, you might idealize a mentor attribute wisdom or perfection to them that might not align with reality. You don't even want to think about. You want to avoid thinking about any criticism, and you're just always looking up to this, your mentor, manager, supervisor, and that might not align with actually, what's happening. So, so it's, yeah,
Scott Benner 21:10
go ahead, yeah. So Is it as simple as if I have like an overbearing endocrinologist as a kid, I might not feel warmly towards doctors for the rest of the way, or if my parents are a little too maybe involved, and don't give me enough autonomy that I'm just going to grow up. Like, being like, oh, like, I don't know what to do. Like, you know, like, is it always that simple? Do people ever pivot from these things?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:32
Oh, yeah, yeah. I think you can't. Certainly you can pivot. But part of it is that awareness, I think, with the endocrinologist, example, having perhaps, the not, you know, not ideal relationship with your endo as a child, you might this is kind of a direct, right redirection, redirection of your feeling towards any other future doctor, assuming they don't have your best interest, or they don't really get you, because that was your experience as a Child. That is, for sure, transference the parent example, if you then kind of grew up feeling like they were kind of managing, and you were ready to take some independence, but you couldn't, they wouldn't allow it. As an adult. If you were to then be in a relationship with someone, the transference would look like your partner, suggesting maybe you should Pre Bolus right now. And if you reacted really strict in the way that you maybe your parents how you reacted to your parents as a child. But perhaps most of the time, your partner is really supportive, but that one or two times you know, or you know, randomly, they make a suggestion, and you respond in a really reactive way that could be, again, this is just, yeah, this might not be all the time, but that would be, you're transferring your feelings towards your parents, towards your partner when they're trying to be helpful. Your partner could be doing it too much, and that's a whole different issue, right? Does that make sense? It
Scott Benner 22:54
does. And I actually have a couple of examples here that I'm just going to read it doctor patient relationships, how transference kind of show up in type one diabetes. A person with type one may unconsciously project past experiences with controlling or dismissive doctors onto a new healthcare provider. If a child had an overly strict endocrinologist, they may grow up avoiding medical advice or distrusting doctors. And then it says conversely, if they had a nurturing doctor, I do feel like I see this a lot, they might seek excessive validation from newer healthcare providers. So if you had some great doctor growing up that was super over nurturing, then you're always mad at the next one because they didn't they're not living up to this expectation, right? And then you hear people say, Oh, my doctor sucks. And I'm like, Oh, do they suck? Or, in the end, I just don't know that when you're judging someone else, you shouldn't be just very much thinking about who you are in the scenario as well. Like, and I'm not talking about outlier stuff, like, like, people who are just really, genuinely terrible people. Obviously, I'm not trying to find a reason for that to be okay. But when you're just having these sort of things, parental transfer and burnout. If a child with type one had overprotective parents, they may struggle with independence as adults feeling guilty or anxious when making their own diabetes decisions that I didn't imagine. But so if somebody had always been doing it for you, then when you go to do it, you're always going to be wondering, Am I doing this, right? Am I doing it as well as they used to do it? Am I letting down the effort that they put into me? Even? Like, is that it's crazy, right? But, geez,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:20
yes, although that, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess that is loosely. That's, this is where the confusion, like transference, usually is put on to a new person, right? But I guess you're kind of, then
Scott Benner 24:31
they almost put it onto yourself and yourself, yeah, right, yeah. And again, not using the word transference, right, right, right. That's defined some adults with type one unconsciously recreate their childhood caregiver dynamic with partners like to expect their their partner to help them, and then if their partner doesn't want to, it could cause a strain. I've seen that before, too, where, you know, people are just like, well, I didn't get the response back from my partner that I that I deserve and and I'm like, oh gosh. Like, they've probably got a whole little like. Uh, origin story too. That might have stopped them from being able to do that for you. You know what I mean? Like, it's back to what I'm saying. Like, everybody's got a different perspective. But in the end, we all give our opinion of what happened at the traffic accident, and that's the one we're going to hold to because how it felt to us, you know,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:15
right? And in that, that partner example, I'm going to try and describe it not as a therapist, like in therapy, we'd call that counter transference. If the partner is like, well, I don't want to help or support this person because I was never validated enough or received gratitude, because I used to help my kid sister all the time growing up, you know, I don't like that partner may, as you were saying, that partner might have a story, yeah, about why they are scared or fearful or or don't want to, whatever the reason is, and then having that awareness to communicate that would be the next step,
Scott Benner 25:52
exactly. So what I see that always like, baffles me, but it doesn't once you start going through this, I guess, is like somebody will be very like, supported by somebody in a post, right? And someone, you know, it doesn't happen a lot. I have to say, the group's really good. But once in a while you'll get somebody that comes through. It's just like, you know, you're being weak. Or, you know, why do you need these people to tell you that you're doing okay? Or, like, I'm like, Oh, you're asking the wrong question. The question should be, why don't I see this kindness as what it is like? Why am I offended by people being kind to each other, but vice versa? By the way, when you see somebody be honest and straightforward about something, but not cruel, how come? Very often I see people, they'll tell me that person's not being nice, and I'm like, No, they're not being unkind. They're just being direct. They're not looking at you first thing going, Oh, I hope you're okay. And like, they're not doing the voice and like, the eyes, and they're just saying, hey, look, here's the answer to the question, like, what are you being so harsh for? My god, they're not being harsh. It's just, it's not even critical, like I and people who are like me and have this position, if I think, if you're doing it well, you really do have to remove yourself from all the opinions while you're moderating, because I have found myself more often than you might count, defending something that in my personal life, I'd be like, I would never get behind this, but in the realm of we're all gonna get treated equally, and all of our ideas are valid, and as long as we're being kind, it's okay to say what you're gonna say. There are times people say stuff and I'm like, I don't personally agree with that at all, but they're not doing anything wrong by the way they're presenting it. You're flipping out. And somehow you've put yourself in a position where you get to think you're right and they're wrong. And I don't know another way to put this other than like, wrapping it around virtue signaling, which is something you see online a lot like, people will just say the thing that they think nobody else can argue with, and it's obvious that it's right and that they want to be associated with this so badly. And then they see somebody else who just says something like, let's be less obtuse for a minute. Erica, okay, okay, okay, it's incredibly possible that some people had problems from the COVID vaccine. Okay, yeah, it's possible. I'm not saying it is that it absolutely happened. It happened to a million people. I'm just saying it's possible, and if someone brings it up, I'm weirded out by people going, like, we can't talk about that. I'm like, I mean, I don't understand that exactly. Like, you know, maybe they're end up being wrong, and we'll talk it through, and you'll find out they were wrong. It's possible. But like, it's so strange to just say no, no, I'm on the side of right. I'm on the side of good. And so anything you say that goes against that is bad. I'm obviously good. I win. You lose. You're being mean. I'm being great. I don't know that that's true because we haven't had the conversation yet like that is a specific example. Is something I've been living through for three years moderating this group, continuing down paths of difficult discussions. There's a no religion, no politics rule in the group. But from my perspective, if you come on and say, I just I'm so grateful to God that my family is getting through this, I don't think that's religious. I just think that's you just saying I'm grateful to God. If you don't believe in God, just don't comment. Don't come in and be like, there's no religious conversation. I mean, it's religious conversations. The guy's just grateful. And I'm like, Why are you so upset that he is grateful to God? Let's just say there's no God who cares. Let's say there is a God who cares. Like, I don't understand why everyone always plants a flag so firmly somewhere and decides you're wrong. I'm right, and because I'm right and you're so obviously wrong, I'm allowed to just open up a fire hose of on you, and I don't have to stop, like, I don't I don't understand, like, you don't know that, that there are plenty of people in the world who think you're wrong and they're right. Like, is that not obvious? So
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:58
in that you. Example, I would encourage all of us to say, Wow, I'm having a really strong reaction to this person being grateful to God. And I'm going to think, Gosh, does this remind me of somebody? Am I responding to like a conversation I've had or an experience with a priest or a family or a church, or am I just having a really hard day? Or am I? There are probably multiple things you could consider, but just noticing when you're having that really strong reaction or intense response related to something in the in the present moment, is this reminding me of something from the past? And if not, okay, then think about how you want to respond? Yeah, the
Scott Benner 30:41
most interesting way to parse through that, if you're listening, in my opinion, is this, a conservative leaning person thinks of me as conservative. I'm talking about me a religious person thinks of me as spiritual, because I've said I'm not religious. A not religious person believes me to be a pagan because, like, so like, so I am. You're neutral. I'm so neutral that you agree with me, and so you put me on your team. Or if you disagree with me, you put me on the opposite team. It happens constantly. I've had people online like, rant about, like, he's Joe Rogan, and I'm like, I don't really fit into that category. I also don't know that Joe Rogan fits into the Joe Rogan category. I don't think any of us fit into the category that you're putting us in. Do you know what I mean? Like, I always say people like you, trust me, you don't know how I think about this. The election just went by. Liberal people definitely think I would like paint my hair like the rainbow, and they definitely think that. And I'm also not telling you, I wouldn't, I'm just saying they're super sure about it. They're just as sure as the conservative people who believe that. I know that those hippie liberals are ruining everything. It's fascinating what ends up happening when you put in this position, but at the same time, if you're moderating something, and I come in and I say, hey, look, you know, they're not saying anything bad here. Immediately that person believes that I'm on their team. I'm sticking up for them. I can't believe this is what you think. I've taken you to be like this. You should just take me to be neutral and to believe that I'm good with whatever you think. I couldn't possibly care less what you think. I'm just trying to keep the conversation going so you all can realize that you've all got diabetes and it sucks, and you have a lot that you could help each other with, as long as we can sit here and talk about it. I don't care if a pangolin ate a bat or if it got out of a lab. I don't care if Dr Fauci is a great guy, or if he's horrible, it doesn't matter to me. I also can't prove it, and I don't even have the time to worry about it. I just want you all to keep talking, so that you realize that you have these experiences around diabetes and insulin and burnout and doctors and all the other the real you're actually struggling with every day, and you could help each other. So why don't we stop arguing about whether or not Mark Zuckerberg, blah, blah, blah, because I don't know him. Elon did a Nazi salute. Did he I don't know. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. I don't know. You know who knows him? He just told you one. Do you believe him? No, well, then I don't know what the one like we're gonna keep like, I'm crazy from this like, you're gonna keep digging through it. You can't prove for the rest of your life. Here's what we can prove. That lady knows how to Pre Bolus, and that one over there knows how to set up a tandem really well, and that lady knows how to use Omnipod five. Those are the things you should be talking about with each other. And if one of us uses a word that makes you upset, do what Eric had just said. Just stop and say to yourself, Why am I having such a harsh reaction to this? I know how hard this sounds to some people and to other people. It's obvious and common sense. If you see something you disagree with, scroll past it. Yeah. All done. Like, that's it. It's super simple. Is this why I brought this up? Is this just frustration about me monitoring a Facebook group?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:08
Oh my gosh, maybe sorry, but you, but what you have, and I'm noticing your experience, is that you've created a very safe space, right? And oftentimes that happens in in a therapy room, right where you've created safety, safety, and the client typically might assume that the therapist is aligned with their perspective, and that's not right or wrong. That's just the feeling of safety been experienced, and that's great. I've spoken
Scott Benner 34:36
to a therapist in my life, but 100% thought he thought I agreed with everything, and he agreed with me. And I'm sure he was like, This guy's an asshole, yeah, probably exactly, I swear to you, like, I just want you all to realize that group is there for that, that safety is important, but it's important also to remember that the fragile amongst us that think of. Safety is one thing, and the people amongst us who have really harsh opinions and are very pointed and don't mince their words, they need safety too. Everyone needs that safety. It doesn't matter what their perspective is or how they speak like that's the thing you're missing in today's political landscape, in social media and everything else, that everyone has that position. And in their heart, they believe that if you don't let them speak, you're the oppressor. And it doesn't matter if you're like, you know, a hippie, you could still be oppressing somebody. And it doesn't matter if you're screaming and yelling about, God, you could still be oppressing somebody. And to bring it back into this, if you come in and start ranting and raving about low carb eating, you're oppressing somebody. And if you're yelling about I had this cupcake and I put a waffle on top of it and syrup, and guess what, I Bolus for it, someone feels oppressed by that, and I they're not really oppressed. It's an overuse of the word, but someone feels like their thing is being ignored, and their needs and their desires and their wants and their hopes and their dreams are being ignored. And what I'm saying is none of you have the power to even do that to each other, like just be kind. You know, if you have an opinion about something, there's a way to write out the sentence where you get your criticism across without it feeling like a criticism, where you get your point across in a way that could actually make somebody think, like, oh, that they might have a point there. You know, like, because yelling and ranting, or, you know, running around acting crazy on all sides of this spectrum. I'm literally not sticking up for one person's political views or views about eating. I really couldn't possibly care less how you eat or what you love, or I just don't care. But everyone's going to feel like the people who aren't agreeing with them are against them. And I think there's a way to not agree, but not to leave the person feeling like you're against them. I hope that makes sense, yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:06
and I think as in this, as we're still talking, I guess about the Facebook group, if you're noticing that you're having a really strong emotional response to the comment, not only checking yourself and wondering, is this, is this triggering something from the past? And then if you still want to write something, you could even build in some awareness and lead with, gosh, I noticed I'm feeling really strongly to your I'm feeling really strongly frustrated or concerned or angry by your comment. This is how I'm feeling. I mean, you're that's not gonna, quote, fix it all, but you're demonstrating and practicing for yourself some awareness of why you're feeling that way,
Scott Benner 37:47
and you'd be a little vulnerable too. That helps people like, that's the other thing that the person asked me about, like, how do you do this? And I said, I'm gonna give a secret away here a little bit, but I always put myself in a reasonably subservient position in the conversation. Because I don't think that most people don't want to be lorded over. And some, and those, some of those people who don't want that have a very bad reaction to it. And the people who, if I put myself subserviently in the in the back and forth, the Kinder people don't Lord that over you anyway. They just see you as kind and so, like, it's a way to not trigger people. And I really should say this, because now I realized how it kind of sounds 99.9% of the people in that group are lovely. I do believe it's we're still talking about the fringes. Yeah, you know, the people who are going nuts in one way or the other, or angry, or whatever they're doing doesn't really matter. But the reason why it's important and why it's it needs to be spoken about, even though it feels like it's just a few people, because it really is just a few people, is because it gives the feeling that it's everywhere. That's the problem is that literally, what's the saying one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. Is that? Like, it doesn't really spoil the bunch. It makes you look at the bushel of apples and go like, Oh, I probably shouldn't stick my hand in there. Even though there's only a worm in that one right there, I could probably grab this one from the other side. The reason I'm so quick about it online, and try to be so quick about it online, is because in a group where sometimes 50 new people are coming in every 24 hours, two people, you know, four it's two people an hour, right? Like, two new people an hour. The first thing they see when they get there can't be your crazy ass talking about some crazy thing and having some other crazy person yelling back at them, who's just having a bad day. Because we finally got them to a place that's going to help them. Finally got them here and you want the first thing they see is for you to be rant and Raven about something, because they're going to leave. They're going to think, oh yeah, this is what I know about Facebook. Somebody told me this was a good group, but obviously it doesn't. What they're not going to know is that 120 other posts from that day weren't anything like that, and that Erica was. It's outside of your expertise, and maybe outside of mine, to some degree, has a lot to do with the algorithm. The algorithm knows what pisses you off, and it shows it to you, and so
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:10
even if it's your first crazy by the way,
Scott Benner 40:14
I keep saying this recently, but how many have you had anybody tell you yet you can't maybe you can't tell me. In practice, my algorithm knew I was gay before I did. Have you ever heard anybody say that? That's a thing that's happening more and more like I look back now and I go, Oh my God, my algorithms been trying to tell me I'm a lesbian for nine months. I didn't realize it, because it's feeding me what I'm looking for. If you're a person who lingers, you don't even have to, like conflict, pause, yeah, if you linger on it a little bit, or click, or find yourself reading it, or scroll up and down once or twice to show that you're going through it. Then you join a new Facebook group, and here's 120 new posts today. You know the 1,000% of them are about like, taking good care of yourself, or celebrating how things are going, or how I got my standard deviation done, or something like that. But instead it goes, Hey, here's one where a lady is yelling at a guy for blah, blah, blah. You love it when people yell at each other, and then you think, Oh yeah, look, this place is exactly like the internet is. And so we put up so many posts every day of people celebrating or people showing you what worked for them, or answering questions that everybody has, the algorithm will not serve those posts to people. They won't. You have to go find them. But if I go on, we did a thing recently. I put I did a thing. I put up a post. And I said, Hey, everybody, listen. I've been trying to get the word out about I was doing a giveaway. I was trying to give away a spot to camp to kids. And I was like, so the first paragraph of this post, I started a fight. I said, Hey, what do you think a tipping culture? Isn't it crazy that we're being asked to tip for things and blah blah blah, I've got a new rule, if I'm standing up, you don't get tipped, like, blah blah, like that kind of thing, like, meaning like ordering at the counter. Yeah. So I put a little post together, and right under that, I say, Hey, listen everybody, I don't really care about this. I'm just trying to make the algorithm serve this post to people. I'm trying to do a giveaway. Here's the giveaway information below, but do me a favor, go down in the comments and argue about tipping. Holy crap. That post got served to people for a solid week. It got seen by 80% of the people that were in the group. Have you ever heard the phrase I'd give my left nut? I'd give my left nut for some of my posts to be seen by 80% of the people in the group. And then, you know what? I was like, this is just what I'll do now. I'll put a fake argument at the top of each one and blah, blah. Except, you know what happened? A handful of people who were servers were really fucking pissed about it. So I was like, Oh, God, oh, you can't get around the algorithm and still be kind. I saw
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:45
the puppy post. Did you get more views with the puppy? Not
Scott Benner 42:49
as much as I've gotten with like, people complaining, arguing. Oh, yeah, you could use sexuality, but I won't. I don't do I'm not going to do that. But you see, a lot of even companies are doing that now, like device companies, like, I mean, they pump out, I mean, because they're always asking people, right? Like, hey, sending your pictures of you with your device. But you know, when you see a lot of posts in the summertime when people send in their pictures with their device, and that just the algorithms like, oh, look, there's a person whose skin isn't completely covered, they shove that, that content forward more. So, I mean, maybe I could get abs and try it. I don't know, but I think that's gonna take a while. You know what? I mean, I don't know. I listen, is there, is there a wrap up here for people? Because I started off by just thinking, you guys have this feeling inside, and you're putting it on other people, like, that's just how it is, how it felt to me, and you're stopping yourself from enjoying life or getting answers or meeting friends or making a safe place for yourself or finding a community or building yourself a digital home, or whatever it is you're trying to do, like when you're out there arguing with people, this is what's going on behind the scenes, and you're making one lovely podcast. Or who's in charge of all of it out of his mind. So please stop. He can't take it much
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:11
longer. I can take, you know. So the yes, you're, you're, you're strong,
Scott Benner 44:15
I'm fine.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:19
I think we all are. It's all human nature, right? Yeah, and we all are responding and reacting from our past experiences. And the more we can bring awareness to that, I think, you know, the more beautiful experience we can have. But it's it's hard, it's a hard journey.
Scott Benner 44:35
If I had one piece of advice, I just tell people, put yourself in my position, make it your goal to create a place where everybody is welcome and everybody's there to help each other. And if you have that as your like, your north star, then the rest of it just kind of comes. Like, even when people ask about, like, you know, why do you think the podcast is so popular? But if, like, it's simple, like, I just get up every morning and I think, like, oh. Wonder what these people need, and then I just try to imagine what that is and give it to them. And you know, like, if you had that thought when you were dealing people, like, what does this person need right now? And just did that, you'd get back the thing you need without trying. But that's some hippie dippie. So you're probably not going to believe me, but like, the truth is that the podcast has helped me way more than it's helped you, if you're listening. And I got that by doing nice things for other people. I think there's a parable in the Bible about it, even, but I would know, because I'm a pagan, unless you really like me, and then I'm very spiritual, and I might have read
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:33
about it, and I don't, I don't think your therapist thought you were a jerk. For the record, he's a
Scott Benner 45:38
lovely guy, by the way. I really did like him, but, you know, he's still around. Think I should stop by and say hi. There's no way he'd remember me. You mentioned I'd be like, Hey, what's up? If you like, Get out of here. No, you don't think so. You don't think he'd be like, Hey, you're not paying me. I don't want to see
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:55
you. No, I think it'd be nice to see clients like, I mean, I don't know how long ago you went, but I think it's always nice to hear from them. You know, one, 510, years later, 20, I don't know if the guy
Scott Benner 46:04
just opened the door and he'd be like, Oh, my God, you never murdered anybody. That's awesome. Erica being really super serious for a second, and then I'll let you go. What do you think, if it just stream of consciousness? How do you think you can best approach talking to people online in a community setting, understanding that people are very stressed, a lot of them, some of them might feel euphoric, like they figured something out. They might proselytize like like, given the all the things that might happen. And that's basically what do you think your best plan of, I don't know, attack is for becoming part of a community. It's a question I'm just asking off top my head, so you don't
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:47
have an answer. My plan to be a part of a community like the Facebook group. How
Scott Benner 46:51
do I enter into that space and have the most success before
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:56
either reading or posting, checking in with how you're feeling right? Are we? Are you scrolling while you're cooking? Are, you, know, just checking in right in the moment before you open it up to read or post? Take a beat. And I know this is hard to do. I don't do it all the time. Like it is hard to do right? Like it's just habit. We're sitting there doing whatever, and we're scrolling just like, Am I Am I ready for this? Do I want this? How am I feeling right now? Go from there and then, if you're noticing irritation or even sadness, you know, a lot of times we hop on and maybe the stories we're reading are too intense for how you're feeling in that moment, that's okay. That doesn't mean what people are sharing is wrong. It's just it's too hard for you in that moment of time. So maybe put it down and say, Gosh, this is really, this is really triggering, and it's truly triggering, right? Like, if you are feeling that sadness, it's okay allow that to come, or if you're feeling neutral and you want to chime in check in with how you're responding. So it's just kind of a really awareness of how you are in that moment. How are you feeling as you're reading or posting and noticing? Is this coming from how I'm feeling right now? Is it present feeling, or is this triggering a past feeling or experience? Yeah, those three things hard to do all the time. That's what I would do
Scott Benner 48:15
for me, and I've brought it up a number of times the podcast I probably haven't talked about in a long time. It's the college commencement speech called This is water that I read like probably about once a year, or listen to once a year. If I can find the recording on YouTube, it just helps me to think about something very simply, and I'll bastardize a lot of what the author said, but I just try this. If someone zooms past me on the road, and they're driving crazy. I try to think to myself, they must have a really good reason for doing that. They probably don't Erica. They're probably just assholes. Okay? I like to think they really gotta and they're trying to get to a Burger King on the corner. I like to think that they're kids at home in trouble, and they're racing home to help them, because it doesn't do me any good to imagine that they're bad people and that they don't care about me and that they're going to kill somebody. It just makes me upset, and giving them the benefit of the doubt is maybe the most holistic lovely thing that I can do for myself, and in the course of doing that, I get more out of life. So if you go into that space just thinking like if someone's doing something that's really rubbing me the wrong way, I just assume they either have a very good reason for it or I'm misunderstanding them. I give them the benefit of the doubt, and then it always works out for me. That's how I don't end up in arguments with people online. I get put in so many situations every day that if I came from any other perspective, I'd be laying waste to people constantly, because, you know, someone's always got a problem with something like I spoke about earlier, and like, you can't be the one who's just always coming in with a ruler and cracking people over the knuckles like it just doesn't work that way. So anyway, I appreciate. You doing this with me? I know I talked a lot. I apologize. Oh, it's all good. Thanks. Hold on one second I'm gonna say goodbye to you.
Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast was sponsored by the new tandem Moby system and control iq plus technology. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juice box. Check it out. Dexcom sponsored this episode of the juice box podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom g7 at my link. Dexcom.com/juice box. Earlier you heard me talking about blue circle health, the free virtual type one diabetes care, education and support program for adults. And I know it sounds too good to be true, but I swear, it's free, thanks to funding from a big T 1d philanthropy group, blue circle health doesn't bill your insurance or charge you a cent. In other words, it's free. They can help you with things like carb counting, insurance navigation, diabetes technology, insulin adjustments, peer support, Prescription Assistance and much more. So if you're tired of waiting nine months to get in with your endo or your educator, you can get an appointment with their team within one to two weeks. This program is showing what T 1d care can and should look like currently if you live in Florida, Maine Vermont, New Hampshire, Ohio, Delaware, Missouri, Alabama, Mississippi, Iowa or Louisiana. If you live in one of those states, go to blue circle health.org to sign up today. The link is in the show notes, and please help me to spread the word blue circle health had to buy an ad because people don't believe that it's free, but it is. They're trying to give you free care if you live in Florida, Maine, Vermont, Ohio, Delaware, Alabama and Missouri. It's ready to go right now. And like I said, they're adding states so quickly in 2025 that you want to follow them on social media at Blue circle health, and you can also keep checking bluecirclehealth.org to see when your free care is available to you. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app, like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple podcast, and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes. I'll be your best friend, and if you leave a five star review, ooh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? The Diabetes variable series from the Juicebox Podcast goes over all the little things that affect your diabetes that you might not think about travel and exercise to hydration and even trampolines. Juicebox podcast.com, go up in the menu and click on diabetes variables. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongwayrecording.com, you.
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#1495 Laura’s Lore
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
Laura, a nurse, was recently diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.
+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.
Laura 0:15
Please. If you do call me by my name, I don't know why people can call me Lauren. They can call me whatever name, but if they say Laura, it just makes my blood curdle.
Scott Benner 0:25
Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com AG, one is offering my listeners a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of d3, k2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drink AG, one.com/juice, box. To get this offer. Are you an adult living with type one or the caregiver of someone who is and a US resident? If you are, I'd love it if you would go to T 1d, exchange.org/juice box and take the survey. When you complete that survey, your answers are used to move type one diabetes research of all kinds. So if you'd like to help with type one research, but don't have time to go to a doctor or an investigation and you want to do something right there from your sofa, this is the way t 1d exchange.org/juice box. It should not take you more than about 10 minutes. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes and their mini med 780 G system designed to help ease the burden of diabetes management, imagine fewer worries about mis Bolus or miscalculated carbs thanks to meal detection technology and automatic correction doses, learn more and get started today at Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 the one year where CGM that's one insertion a year. That's it. And here's a little bonus for you. How about there's no limit on how many friends and family you can share your data with, with the ever since now app, no limits. Ever since.
Laura 2:30
Wait. I do have one. I have one, one request. That
Scott Benner 2:35
was awesome. You did that as soon as I hit record. Go ahead. What's your request, please?
Laura 2:39
If you do call me by my name, I don't know why. People can call me Lauren, they can call me whatever name, but if they say Laura, it just makes my blood curdle. So if you could possibly say Laura instead of Laura, that would be amazing. Well, this
Scott Benner 2:56
is being recorded, if you don't mind, and I want to dig into I want to dig into this, because the two names you just said sounded exactly the same to me. So no, no, they're not the same. Give me the proper pronunciation.
Laura 3:09
Well, okay, so I realized I recognize that you can say it both ways, but I just when people say Laura like it sounds like l, a, a, u, r, A, it feels like you're like, gagging, at least to me, but when you say Laura, it just is, like so much smoother and prettier Laura just sounds and no offense to anyone that goes by Laura, but I do not like it at all. Listen,
Scott Benner 3:37
I think I understand what you're saying, and I'm gonna mimic it back in a second to make sure I do, but I just want to tell you that when you speed up and say them concurrently, they sound exactly the same. So like
Laura 3:47
we can agree to disagree, because I do not feel the same thing, you're
Scott Benner 3:52
obviously hearing it one way, and I want to do it, and I think I've got this. So I think there's lore, l, O, R, E, and there's lair. And you like Laura, yes, but if I said Lara, you would hate that. Yeah, Lara, now how about Laura? That's good. That's good. Yeah, see, I don't hear my saying it anymore.
Laura 4:15
It's like when the sound after the L is more of an A versus an O. That's what I don't like. Okay,
Scott Benner 4:22
so not Laura. Laura, yes, there you go. You
Laura 4:27
can hear the difference. Now I want
Scott Benner 4:28
to be clear. I can hear the difference, but when you say it, I don't hear the difference. As long
Laura 4:32
as you as long as you can hear the difference, that's fine. That's all I'm asking. But do
Scott Benner 4:37
your imitation of both of them again. But don't tell me which one you're going to do. Just say them both, yeah in any order. Laura, yeah, that almost sounds exactly the same. What I hope is that people listening every time you say something that they either agree or disagree with as they're listening for the next hour, they say out loud to themselves, Oh, cute. Loud. Laura, that's gonna be awesome. All right, you're Laura. I got it Yes, like from the TV show with the girl and her daughter, Laura, lie like that. Yes, yeah. I don't know what the TV show is called, but oh gosh,
Laura 5:16
I don't either. I've never watched it.
Scott Benner 5:19
Gilmore Girls, yeah, sim, sometimes I say stuff like that to hook people, and they're like, yelling. Now they're like, it's Gilmore Girls, you idiot. And I later,
Laura 5:25
that's one, that's one show I couldn't get, I couldn't get on. Oh, way
Scott Benner 5:30
to, like, really drive a wedge early. I
Laura 5:32
know I'm starting to regret it. Yeah,
Scott Benner 5:35
right now. I mean, I think, you know, probably heavy 60, 6040, women
Laura 5:39
listen to and you're like, all of my friends in college love that show. Yeah, I'm
Scott Benner 5:43
saying right now. They're like, Oh, Lara doesn't like Gilmore Girls.
Laura 5:48
I don't know if this, this episode's gonna do too all for you.
Scott Benner 5:51
Scott, no, no, no, don't worry. It'll be fine. We'll figure something out here. All right, so let's, uh, let's dig in a little bit. I was gonna ask you to introduce yourself, but I think that part's over
Laura 5:59
now. I think they got the name down, hopefully. Tell
Scott Benner 6:03
me a little bit about your diabetes. Yeah.
Laura 6:05
So I was diagnosed in October of 2023, like four days after my 24th birthday. Wow, yeah. I've only been diagnosed a little over a year, like a year and a half. It was very unexpected. I have no diabetes in my family, anything like that. My husband and I had actually just moved cities right after he graduated, so I got a new job. I'm a nurse, work in the hospital, got a new job, started training. It was a very, very stressful environment, kind of one of those things where it's like, I love the adrenaline, but my body didn't, so started doing that around Labor Day. I got sick. It wasn't really like anything crazy. I had a really bad headache and a runny nose for a couple days that went, came and went, kept working, and then I started getting, like, super, super thirsty. Bought myself a new water bottles. Like, this is great. We're drinking water. I'm gonna be hydrated, telling
Scott Benner 7:03
myself I'm gonna drink more water. This is awesome. Finally happening. Thank you, yeah.
Laura 7:10
Started doing that. Started peeing more obviously. Then I was like, Man, I really can't see the monitor, like the monitors in my patients rooms, from the nurses station, like, and driving home from work was really hard, and I was like, Man, my eyes are really, really bad. So I made an appointment for the eye doctor. Went to the eye doctor, and he was like, I was telling him everything that happened. Like, yeah, my vision just got really bad over the course of like, three or four weeks. He's like, have you checked your sugars lately? And I was like, No. And up until that point, I was like, kind of my husband, I were talking about trying to get pregnant. So I was like, oh, maybe I'm pregnant. Like, I'm not sleeping well, like I'm breaking out all around my face, like, all these different hormonal changes. So I was like, kind of like, trying to convince myself of something otherwise. And I was like, No, I haven't checked my sugars. That just like, kind of got me thinking in that direction. My mom actually had a glucometer. Because she's a health nut. She's like, Yeah, just take my glucometer. Take your sugar. It's 256 so I was like, That's not great.
Scott Benner 8:10
Your mom that doesn't have diabetes, is like, Here, take my glucometer. Yes, yes,
Laura 8:17
it's awesome. So and we were never a family that really went, like, I never had a primary care I went, I maybe went to the doctor, like, twice as a kid, like, Okay, let me find a primary care doctor. Found one, pretty holistic. I didn't want her to, like, throw a bunch of meds at me if it wasn't what I was thinking. Whatever walked in, they had taken my sugar, taken my urine, all of that. I walked in and she goes, Oh, honey, you're a diabetic. Didn't introduce herself, didn't say anything, didn't even look up from her computer. And I was like, Thanks.
Scott Benner 8:46
Wait. All of this happened before you could give her the big Laura, Laura conversation, yeah, yeah,
Laura 8:52
yeah, yeah. So I was like, Oh, that's great. Thanks for just like, changing my entire life, and not even, like introducing yourself at all, and this
Scott Benner 9:02
is like a year and a half ago, yeah, jeez, oh, I'm sorry that sucks. Yeah, it was pretty
Laura 9:09
traumatic that now that I'm I'm realizing that now I think I tried to convince myself that it wasn't, and now I'm kind of coming to that realization. Yeah, so
Scott Benner 9:18
maybe you've things have settled in a little bit. Now you're looking more at your maybe the mental aspects of all this, yeah, for sure, yeah. Well, in the beginning, it's a mode where you're just trying to exist and continue and yeah, damage control mode, yeah. So, well, okay, How long had you been married when this happened? Today's episode is sponsored by a long term CGM that's going to help you to stay on top of your glucose readings, the ever since 365 I'm talking, of course, about the world's first and only CGM that lasts for one year, one year, one CGM. Are you tired of those other CGMS, the ones that give you all those problems? That you didn't expect, knocking them off, false alerts not lasting as long as they're supposed to. If you're tired of those constant frustrations, use my link ever since cgm.com/juicebox, to learn more about the ever since 365 some of you may be able to experience the ever since 365 for as low as $199 for a full year. At my link, you'll find those details and can learn about eligibility ever since cgm.com/juicebox check it out. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the mini med 780 G system. The mini med 780 G, automated insulin delivery system, anticipates, adjusts and corrects every five minutes. Real world results show people achieving up to 80% time and range with recommended settings, without increasing lows. But of course, Individual results may vary. The 780 G works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. Have you heard about Medtronic extended infusion set? It's the first and only infusion set labeled for up to a seven day wear. This feature is repeatedly asked for, and Medtronic has delivered. 97% of people using the 780 G reported that they could manage their diabetes without major disruptions of sleep, they felt more free to eat what they wanted, and they felt less stress with fewer alarms and alerts you can't beat that. Learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes by visiting Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox
Laura 11:37
we had just celebrated our first year anniversary, so, but we had been together like seven years before that, so he took it in stride. He was great with I think a lot of it came from, like, a lack of knowledge, but he was great with
Scott Benner 11:52
it. Lack of knowledge. He's like, this will probably be fine. I think she's gotta take more vitamins now. Yeah, actually, I think your first anniversary supposed to be paper, not diabetes, yeah, yes, yeah, you messed that all up. So interesting, isn't it like you're a nurse who didn't really go to the doctor much?
Laura 12:09
Yeah, no. And I'm, like, the first medical professional in my family. Like we, we are not medical at all. I don't really know where it came from. I think I really like to take care of people. I think that's like a I'm a big problem solver, so I like seeing a problem, being able to have a solution and do something about it. So I think that's where that came from. But I'm the first medical professional, and none of my family has really a medical background. You becoming
Scott Benner 12:34
a nurse is likely if I became a ski instructor, like i No one ever talked about or looked at. I don't like the snow, like, you know what I mean? If I just woke up one day, I'm like, You know what I'm gonna do? It's pretty cool. It really is. Yeah, you knew coming out of high school?
Laura 12:47
Yeah. Actually, I feel like that's one thing that I've never really wavered on. I'm a pretty indecisive person, but nursing is has always I never changed my major neighborhood. Never thought about really doing anything different. I thought briefly about becoming a teacher, and then I did a kids camp, and I was like, yeah, that's not for me at all. So I really like adults, and I like taking care of older adults. So yeah, I
Scott Benner 13:12
think I'm gonna start a t shirt line of things people say on the podcast, because I believe I could sell a fair amount of indecisive person T
Laura 13:20
shirts. Is that related to diabetes? I wonder. No,
Scott Benner 13:24
it's not. But you just said I'm a pretty indecisive person. I thought I bet you a lot of people would wear that T shirt that said indecisive person. Oh my gosh, but not indecisive at work, I would imagine,
Laura 13:35
no, not really. That's a good point. I really thought about that.
Scott Benner 13:38
Yeah, I mean, because that's pretty cut and dry, the stuff you do at work, I would imagine,
Laura 13:42
yes, yeah, most of it is some a lot of it's critical thinking. So in that sense of the word, you have to think and make decisions. But for the most part, it is, yeah, okay,
Scott Benner 13:52
so how have you found the last 18 months of having type one diabetes? What's it been like?
Laura 13:59
It's been a whirlwind. To be honest, I feel like when I first got diagnosed, I obviously, I came at it with a lot of background knowledge, a lot of the knowledge coming from type two diabetes, because most of my patients, that's what I was exposed to. So I think I came at it with a lot of knowledge, but also with a lot of fear, just because a lot of obviously, if they're in the hospital and they're a type two diabetic, something is going wrong, and a lot of comorbidities, a lot of you know, neuropathy, retinopathy, co amputations, things like that. So I think right off the bat, that was the picture that I created in my mind of like, this is going to be me in 40 years. And it started with like, How can I basically arrange my life, learn everything that I can to make it so that it's like, I don't have diabetes again? Yeah, that was obviously very stressful. Still is very stressful because I didn't realize that at first. Now I do realize that. And so. So I'm trying to make that balance of like, what is worth the stress and what is not, because stress obviously takes a toll on your body too. So at some point, the stress that you're putting yourself through is actually doing damage to your body, and that's the first reason that you're doing all of this. So yeah,
Scott Benner 15:17
there's a balance to find for certain, exactly, yeah. You know what? People would bring that up in earlier in the pot, like years ago, in the podcast, and I think my mind always leaned a little more towards No, just manage it better, and your life will be better. And I believe that. But I also think there's a moment where your management kind of finds a stride, yeah, and you can stop staring at it so hard, you know, like, you can still do a good job without being hyper focused. Yes, I think that's the place I like when I see people get to like, you know, they don't look at 160 blood sugar and go like, Oh my God, I've screwed everything up. And, like, you know, and create a big drama for themselves, but at the same time, they wouldn't look at it and think, I'm not going to do anything about it like, yeah, to find that that middle and it is really interesting. You started talking. I said, How have you found this time? And I thought, I wonder which way this is going to go. Because I have spoken to nurses whose kids or themselves have been diagnosed, and they immediately think, Oh, this is going to be a cake walk. I'm a nurse. And then they either a learn that they didn't really understand much about type one diabetes, yeah, and they kind of freak out and don't know what to do, or they believe that the part they know is the only thing they need to know, and they end up ignoring a lot of stuff. Trust me, there's a lot of stories in between, but those are the two big like pathways I've seen in those stories. So I was interested. Because, you know, you say I have a lot of experience, but then it really is about type two diabetes. You don't really have type one experience. So, yeah, yeah. How did you end up picking through what you knew and what you were experiencing? I think
Laura 16:52
a lot is through the podcast. I learned so much, and just I went through the Pro Tip series, and that helped a ton. A lot of it was like, Oh, yeah. Like, that makes sense, like that. I just hadn't thought about it like that. So I think that was, like, a huge part of it, and and just like, trial and error. You know, there's a lot of people that I follow on Instagram now that I see what they do. At that previous job, I had a co worker that had type one diabetes, and he was like, an awesome sounding board, just to, like, bounce things off of and, like, just to be like, an emotional support, and that was huge. Yeah, I think trial and error in the podcast probably were the two biggest things. Laura,
Scott Benner 17:32
do you believe that people listening who've been listening for years missed the old sarcastic me, who would have taken that opportunity to take credit for your health? Or do you think they like this new, more mature me who just let you speak?
Laura 17:44
Well, you just spoke on it, Scott, I don't know if you grow now.
Scott Benner 17:48
I would have cut you off in the past, I would have been like, Oh, I did it. You're well, okay, okay, I just, I found myself wondering, I'm like, this podcast been going on for so long. There are some people who are probably, like, keyed in, waiting for me to jump in and say something stupid. And, you know, they're like, oh, where's that? I love that part, where's that? Or I hated that part, or, but I don't know anyway, yeah, I did not expect you to say that. And, you know, I don't know. You know, you obviously, that's wonderful. I'm glad that it was there and that it helped you. I just, in my personal life, two days ago, had someone reach out to me and say, I am on the way to the emergency room with my son. And I just realized, and this person doesn't know me through all of this, they know me differently. And they were like, I just realized who you are. I need help because I think he has diabetes. Because of people like you sharing your story with me, I was able to confidently say, here's a list. Listen to these. Here's a list. Listen to these. When you're done, let me know. I'll give you some other stuff to listen to. And I felt really and it's gonna sound strange, probably coming for me, but I haven't always felt confident doing that. But you know, over the years, just hearing person after person say, oh, you know what did it for me? It was bold beginnings. Or, you know, I can't believe how much like defining diabetes helped me, because I didn't realize there were so many buzz words I didn't understand, like that kind of stuff. It's really lovely to hear. So I'm in a very good place. I'm starting to feel better. I had a surgery last week. I'm eight days out of having my nose fixed. Oh, my goodness, yeah. And this is only the second time I've recorded since I had the surgery. Well, you sound great. You don't sound stuffed up or anything. I'm doing my best. I'm doing what I was told to do. I'm following the protocols. I felt really terrible this week. I had a weird reaction to the anesthesia, which I don't they must have used something that I don't usually get. Okay, by the way, isn't it great? You get to an age where you're like, you've had so many anesthesia situations where you're like, I know, like, my knee, my toe, my shoulder, like, I don't usually feel that. Anyway, I don't know. She must have mixed something else in there, because I've been like, foggy for the last like, five or six days. Oh, okay. And I. Get up. I'm like, Oh, I feel better today. And then I do something, and I'm like, that was all the energy I had for today. Yeah, yeah. Made me feel like it made me feel old. I'm gonna be honest with it, but this was nice, awesome. You gave me a nice Pep. I have a good feeling that I'm not gonna fall asleep at noon today. Okay, good. I'm glad, or this will end and I'll just be wasted. But, yeah, oh my gosh. Well, you so you've had a whole little thing like now, did you find that during your diagnosis that people assumed and didn't tell you things because you were a nurse?
Laura 20:33
Oh my gosh, yes. Literally, no one even taught me how, like, she never, she never taught me how to give an injection, she never taught me how to take my blood sugar. She literally said, I know you're a nurse, so I'm not going to waste time, like, teaching you everything.
Scott Benner 20:49
Would it have been a waste of
Laura 20:50
time? Honestly, I don't think so. Like, I figured it out. Like, I obviously, I'm here. I didn't die. I figured it out just the fact that she did that. Like, maybe there was a nurse that didn't know that. Or, like, what else are you just assuming when you're taking care of these patients that you're not teaching them? Like, I was in such shock, obviously, that I didn't I was like, Are you gonna, like, teach me how to do this? Or, like, are you gonna give me resources or something? Yeah, she prescribed me mph, which even when she did that was, like, on a sliding scale. I was like, okay, a
Scott Benner 21:24
year and a half ago, yes, what part of the country are you in the Midwest? Okay, that's fine.
Laura 21:31
She he was a very, very old school like, do things like, how I've always done them, not changing based on anything type of doctor, and so she prescribed that to me. And then she was like, I'm gonna refer you to an endocrinologist. He'll probably change it. But I was like, mph on a sliding scale, like I even knew that that was like, not equating you
Scott Benner 21:53
feel, Laura? Do you wait, Laura, Laura, Laura, Laura, Dora, do you feel that you made me I got I got self conscious when I said your name. You did great. You did great. Do you feel like that's the cop out because she doesn't want to be the one to give you insulin? Probably, yeah, she sees you need it, but she doesn't want to be involved. Well, yeah. And
Laura 22:11
it was just, like, really frustrating, because I just found this doctor. I was like, I don't want a doctor that's going to throw a bunch of meds at me whatever. She was like, oh, take these vitamins. You need to do, like she was kind of getting me to do vaccine, like purging or whatever. And like she was, this
Scott Benner 22:26
is the hippie you went to Yes, yes. Do you still see her?
Laura 22:30
No, no. I did not go back to her. I really just went to her for because I knew that I was going to need, like, a referral to an endocrinologist. So I was like, I just need this. And so her main concern wasn't even the diabetes, it was everything else that she thought caused the diabetes. So, and I just can't imagine, like, coming to her with no medical background, and like, not being able to advocate for myself. Or, like, okay, no, I'm not gonna give this much mph for like, a meal when I'm about to go to bed, you know, like, so,
Scott Benner 23:01
yeah, when you walk in because you have type one and someone goes, Do you have a diffuser? Yes, they're like, Listen, I don't want to hear about your essential oils. I need insulin. Okay, literally,
Laura 23:10
yeah. And I'm not saying that there's no, there's no place for that. There is a place for that 100% but not when you are in your 20s and you just got diagnosed with type one diabetes, I don't have the mental capacity to be able to retain this information. And the sad thing is, is that I tried to in that moment, and like, I was like, oh yeah. Like, maybe I should focus on that. And like, I think it took away from me, mentally accepting the diagnosis and, like, figuring things out maybe a little bit sooner, because I was distracted with all this other stuff,
Scott Benner 23:41
I hear that, yeah, to me, it feels like you're walking down the street. You're shot in a robbery. You're laying on the ground clutching your side the EMTs get there. You're like, oh, this is it good. And then the EMT looks down and goes, Let's get her chakra aligned. And you're like, No, how about pressure on the wound? My friend, yeah, yeah. I got you, yeah, she, she kind of went in a more of a hippie dippie situation than you were looking for, and again, maybe a couple of weeks later, that would have been a nice conversation. Yes, yeah, for sure. So you got to that end, though, you made it across town, path, all the methods and everything, because you're in the Midwest and everything, yeah, and you're, I'm sure it's not like that. Anyways, we're gonna make I'm not gonna delve into that. Oh, it is like that. What are you trying to say? Like, no, no. I mean, if we're gonna make fun of Canadians for living in igloos, then we got to bring up the meth heads. Once in a while we talk about the Midwest. That's fair. I'll give you that fair enough, but you get to an end. Oh, and what do you like? How do they get you started knowing
Laura 24:41
that the doctor was who she was. She obviously referred me to someone that's going to be like, similar to her.
Scott Benner 24:50
You found a stone den, though? No, no, no, let's just smoke a little bit, then we'll talk about your diabetes.
Laura 24:59
No, no, no. He was just, like, really, really old, and so he just would not let me get a word out. He just kept talking and talking and talking, talking, talking and talking like he was very nice. You know, you have to go to this, go through the steps of finding someone that you actually want. So this is another, another step, you know, towards the right direction. But he prescribed me levier and then the human log pens. So getting closer, not them, yes, yes. And at that point, I started on the g7 so that was like three months after diagnosis, yeah,
Scott Benner 25:30
I begged. When the person I contacted me, I was like, just make them give you a CGM. Like, that. You don't leave. Because, by the way, this person was misdiagnosed in the ER, given Metformin, even with me saying, like, through text messages, I'm like, you know, he doesn't have type two diabetes, like, this is type one. You know, I was able to get them to agree to a gad anybody test at least. So
Laura 25:53
I am very thankful that I didn't have to go through all of that, like, they tested me right away for all those things, and so I didn't have to fight my way through that, so I am pretty thankful that it was recognized as type one, yeah.
Scott Benner 26:06
So you still see the old guy, or no, no,
Laura 26:08
actually, I'm now on my Let's see one, 2/3 and now
Scott Benner 26:13
you switch about every four months, literally. Well,
Laura 26:17
it's my husband and I have moved twice since then, so it's been a little bit of a whirlwind. And when I saw him, he doesn't do pumps, so like, I saw him for like, six months, and then I was like, listen, I let him talk. I was like, I feel great. I want to pump. And he was like, okay, so he, he referred me to someone else, saw them, got on the pump, and then we moved again. And now the endo that is managing me, she is actually my primary care, and she has a kiddo with type one, so she's managing me as my endo as well. So
Scott Benner 26:52
you're telling me that when the doctor was faced with your I'd like to get an insulin pump request, he referred you to a different physician. He
Laura 26:59
referred me to a different endocrinologist. Yeah, he's so old school that he doesn't do pumps.
Scott Benner 27:05
Don't you think you find yourself in that situation saying, Maybe I shouldn't be helping people with type one diabetes if I don't have this level of comfort?
Laura 27:11
Yeah? And I think a lot of a lot of it was he manages type twos a lot like I don't think type one was necessarily his specialty. So I don't, I didn't really, like, ask him about that. I was just like, okay, whatever. I'll do what I need to do to get on a pump. You know, it
Scott Benner 27:28
brings me right back to something you said earlier. Like, I wonder what else they don't know? Like, that kind of feeling. I forget what context it was in the conversation. But once you're getting that advice, you have to stop and think, like, like, what else isn't being understood here? Like, yeah, I don't know anything. I'm counting on this person to know it and say it to me, yeah. What if they don't know as well?
Laura 27:50
Yeah, it just, it makes me sad, because obviously I had, I had a lot of background knowledge, but a lot of people don't, you know
Scott Benner 27:58
sure you know, it's been really valuable for the podcast last 48 hours for me, speaking to my friend on the phone yesterday and hearing Laura, it's one thing to have somebody on and retell a story and pick through it, and I think I do a pretty good job of getting through their stories and hearing kind of deep ideas, but to hear someone in the moment going through it, I think you'd all be shocked if I would have recorded the phone call I had yesterday with this person. Yeah, yeah. To say lost is not even the right word, yeah. You know, like somewhere between scared, sad, overwhelmed, freaked out, undereducated, no, Dizzy, doesn't know what's happening doesn't understand half the things that are being said to them. Probably won't remember them tomorrow. Yeah? I mean, it really does feel like one of those war movies where, like a bomb goes off next to somebody, and then somebody's yelling at them, like, You got to get up, yeah? You know? And they're just like, I can't like, I all my senses have been shut off.
Laura 28:57
Yeah? It's literally just, like, Chaos Control at that moment, really
Scott Benner 29:01
something honestly, yeah. Anyway, I would think that would be too intimate, and I wouldn't ask anybody to do that, but I genuinely think it would be eye opening for people to listen to someone going through it in the moment. It
Laura 29:13
would probably bring up a lot of their own emotions too. No, yeah,
Scott Benner 29:18
because you're hiding so much from yourself while you're talking about this, yeah, I noticed yesterday that I had to be incredibly careful about the things that were said and weren't said. And, yeah, to me, it's common sense, but I also heard a lot of it on the podcast over the years, talking to people like, I can't believe my doctor said that to me on that day, like, you know, and so I knew things not to say. It wasn't lost on me that she had those questions they were in the back of her head, is my kid gonna die sooner? Is this gonna ruin their life? Like, is that, like, that kind of stuff, and, you know, so I just, I said more broad things, like, hey, my daughter's 20. She's in college. She's had diabetes for 18 years. She's fine. You wouldn't know she has diabetes if you looked at her, you know, she has other. Other autoimmune issues too. We manage them. I was honest. I said, like, don't get me wrong, like, this isn't going to be a picnic or anything like that, yeah, but it's very, very doable and and then I shared with her that I thought that some of the most resilient, like well balanced people that I know, have type one diabetes, yeah, you know, yeah. Hopefully that helps her. But
Laura 30:21
yeah, 100% I think it, I think it did. I
Scott Benner 30:25
hope so. What pump did you get? I got the Omnipod five. Oh, awesome. How are you liking it? I love it. It's great. You know, it's funny, because I half expected you to be like, oh, like, I'm real active, and then not active in my week and it, but it's working well for you.
Laura 30:39
Yeah, I definitely have, I mean, qualms with it. I I'm actually in manual mode because I started on the g7 and going back to the g6 kind of felt like a step back to me. So, and I'm a control freak, so I like to have control. So I think that comes with its challenges. It definitely requires a lot more effort from me. For the most part, I really like it. I'm
Scott Benner 31:04
gonna say something that people are gonna be like, Oh, Scott doesn't know everything about diabetes. It's constantly happening. But I'm okay letting you know that that's true. Omnipot Five doesn't work with g7 yet it
Laura 31:14
does. Oh, it does. So when I got on it, it wasn't compatible at all. Then in between that time and then coming out and being compatible with it, they came out with the app on your iPhone. So I was like, oh, like, praise the Lord, I don't have to carry around two phones. So that was like, a big thing for me. And then they came out with that. It's compatible with the g7 but only with the controller. So I was like, I'm not going from carrying one front phone around back to carrying two phones around just to be in auto mode, right? Because I already have, like, I have pretty good control. So I was like, I'm willing to wait until they come out with the compatibility on the app. Okay, that
Scott Benner 31:54
makes sense, and I'll tell you, like, it's been a while now, but when Omnipod five first came out, we had it pretty quickly. And Autumn was like, I don't understand why. Why do I have to switch what I'm doing? Like, I like what I'm doing. It works, yeah. And I said, Well, just try this. Because, you know, I think there could be a lot of value here. And it was working great. But the tripping point ended up being for her exactly what you just said. She's like, I am not carrying two devices with me. And so she, so she switched back to looping at the time. Now she's using trio, but it was exactly it. So when the functionality comes to your phone, you'll, you'll go into auto mode. I
Laura 32:29
will definitely try it 100% and then I'll see like, what the control is like, and probably go from there. I have thought about looping, but I haven't really done anything more than just think about it.
Scott Benner 32:41
Yeah. I mean, you're pretty early into all this. You've come a long way in a short time. Yeah, that's
Laura 32:46
also true, yeah, you feel that, that I've come a long way, or that I'm, like, just into the well,
Scott Benner 32:52
no, that it's been a short time and that, but from where you started to where you are now, like, I would imagine, you don't recognize yourself from the first three months. You know what I mean? Like, you're You seem very confident in understanding of what's happening to you, I guess is what I'm saying. Yes, yes, I would agree with that. Yeah. Do you because you have an older voice, but you're younger? Do you know that?
Laura 33:11
Yes, a lot of people tell me that I have, I have an older sister. She's four years older than me. And when we were younger, mostly they thought we were twins, and then they would say that I was the older one. Yeah,
Scott Benner 33:21
I'm trying to, like, balance. It's hard for me because, like, my son, you and my son, are the same age, right? Actually, he just turned 25 but you're basically the same age. He's very bright, very capable, but thoughtful person, but there's still times when you talk to him, like, Oh, I forgot he's in his mid 20s, yeah, yeah. And you're tricking me, because you're, you're a nurse, and your voice is a little deeper, yeah. And you feel in your 30s to me. And then, so every once in a while, I say something, I go, she might not know she's only 24
Laura 33:51
No, that's, that's very possible. That is, yes, I can definitely get on board with that.
Scott Benner 33:56
Yeah, no. I mean, it's just, you know, people who are 24 like, Oh, don't you know, maybe they're upset by that, but you'll say you'll get older, and you'll look back on yourself at 24 and go, oh yeah, I didn't really know what I was doing in all aspects of everything. Yeah, 100% is the baby making on the back burner now, yeah, we
Laura 34:14
have a lot going on. We're just busy. My husband's in grad school, and he's a graduate assistant coach for the basketball team that he played for while he was in college, so he's kind of busy with that. I've changed jobs so often. I've only been at this job, like for five months, and we moved back last April, and we're redoing our kitchen. And it's definitely a thought, 100% but not like a forethought, like a It's not at the forefront of our thinking right now. Do
Scott Benner 34:44
you want Scottie opinion? Sure, it's okay to wait a little
Laura 34:49
bit. Yes, I agree with that, but also with all the health issues and everything, and like, not knowing if we're going to easily get pregnant or if it's not going to be so easy. And like. Like thinking about them growing up and getting older, whatever. I just, I kind of want to start that process sooner rather than later, but I definitely, I see what you're saying. Yeah,
Scott Benner 35:08
there's no right answer, but, and there's, there's pluses and minuses to both sides of it. 5% my kid's 25 and I'm 53 that's awesome. Yeah, that part's Great. Yeah, you know, like that. I'm not like, 65 right now is, you know, it's attractive, like, I like that. We were always very young parents in like, my son's like, age group, so I went to school functions and baseball games, and the other parents were always 10 years older than me. Like, always, always, always. And for that, I like that we got started earlier that part of it, but the other side of it is, is that, like, my wife and I didn't really get to, like, hang out as much by ourselves, like, because we were married, and then a couple years later we had Cole, yeah,
Laura 35:55
but now that they're older, and now you guys, now you guys have time to do that, right? Yeah?
Scott Benner 35:59
But it's different. Now we've been together for 30 years. How's it different? Well, How's it different? Need me to tell you or
Laura 36:07
do well, I mean, do you still love each other?
Scott Benner 36:12
That's that's all nice. But like, when you're like, 55 you don't pull over in an alley to have sex, but you do when you're 23 you know what? I mean, like, that's fair. Okay, that's my point is, is that, like, there's, there's a loss somewhere, like we lost something on one side to get something on the other side, which is just how everything works. But I'm just saying I don't know how to quantify the other side of it. I like being younger now that my kids are older, I think that's great. I don't know how much I would have enjoyed not having a kid till I was 30, yeah? Because I might have liked those seven years too. So
Laura 36:45
if you were to redo it, would you do it the same way? How the should I know?
Scott Benner 36:51
I only know the one way I like the way it worked out. Yeah, but I also could have used with a couple of more liaisons, like next to a dumpster. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And by the way, not next to a dumpster, but I'm following, yeah, I have to tell you, that's probably my line. I don't think I would do it up against the dumpster, is what I'm saying. Yeah, probably not. That's not very sanitary, not very sanitary at all. Be you know, but like, you know, you know I'm saying, yeah. Anyway, I don't know. I honestly don't know what to tell you. You could have them now and be like, Oh my god, I'm young. I shouldn't be doing this. It's, you know, because I'm gonna tell you, having a kid, it's all encompassing.
Laura 37:32
Oh yeah, your entire life changes. Yeah, that's an
Scott Benner 37:35
understatement that you don't realize. Yeah, everything is different. I still like, I'll get done recording here, and I'll walk out and someone will be like, is anyone hungry? Still code for like, Dad, you should make some eggs or something, yeah? And I'm like, Yeah, I am hungry. And then I find myself cooking for three people in the middle of the day. And I'm like, I don't think that I should be doing this.
Laura 37:59
But also, Scott, okay, listening to you, and obviously I only know you from the podcast, but, and like how you took Arden's diagnosis and made it this entire, your entire life, I feel like you might actually love that. And that's recalling,
Scott Benner 38:13
yeah, but that's fair, but I, but I'm never gonna stop wondering what I should be doing, what else I could be doing with this time. Like, does that make sense to you? No,
Laura 38:23
that that makes total sense.
Scott Benner 38:25
Yeah, I think I'm a very focused, like, caregiver person, and I make this podcast, and then other than that, I sometimes drive to the grocery store. You know what I mean? Okay, that's not all that you're no, that's most of my life. So we went on vacation last year for the first time in like a decade.
Laura 38:45
Yeah, and aren't you, like, I don't know if you already did this. I should probably not. Aren't you, like, organizing an entire cruise?
Scott Benner 38:52
Yes, me and 100 of the listeners are going on a cruise in June. That's gonna be awesome. Like, yeah, but that's also a work thing, yeah? You know, I think my point is, is that I started with kids so early, and I'm still involved now because they're still younger. I don't mean this in a whiny way. I really don't know myself, not as a parent at all, right? And so I went from growing up poorly to meeting a girl who had problems, you know, of her own, to us getting together and becoming a unit, to us making a baby and being parents. Yeah, so like, I don't really know how to like, I don't know who Scott is without kids. And I'll tell you the other day, my wife had to go away for business. And somehow my wife had to go away for business. My son went away with his girlfriend, and Arden went away for the day. And so there was this one day I was here completely by myself, and I'm gonna, now, I'm just gonna completely do a 180 I started off that day. I was like, This is it. I am an adult. I have, I have. Cash, I own a home. What is gonna happen today? So, and then by like, 11 o'clock, I was doing dishes, yeah? And I was like, I wonder when everyone's coming home. This sucks, yeah. So, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Just, you probably just, you know, do regular banging, and it'll happen, and you'll probably be fine
Laura 40:19
well. And I think part of it is that all of my friends, oh, well, not all of them, a lot of them, and just people I fall on Instagram, from college and whatnot, are having kids. And the same thing happened, like, before I got married, I was like, oh, everyone around me is getting married. I want to get married, and now everyone around me is having kids, and so I don't have kids, but it's like, would I have been fine if we would have waited a year or two to get married, probably. But so it's those feelings of, like, I understand. I want a lot of comparison. I guess
Scott Benner 40:47
I didn't feel that growing up like, trying to, like, you know what I mean, like, but is that like, I'm gonna say, you know, I always feel like people are gonna be like, He's so old or whatever, but like, is that a girl thing? Do you think? Yeah,
Laura 40:59
I would say so. And just with social media, it's the whole basis of it is comparison. And so it's our natural tendency to compare and want what other people want. So yeah, I think it, but I think it is a girl. It
Scott Benner 41:13
is a girl thing. I don't look at other people and think like, Oh, I wish I had what they had. Yeah, I don't
Laura 41:18
know. That's a very interesting point that you made just there. I don't, I don't know what's behind that, but I would agree with it. Yeah?
Scott Benner 41:24
I mean, I don't. I'm sure people are like, it's not a girl boy, it's just you. But, and it's, it's very possible, I just, I don't covet thy neighbor that much. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, yeah. That made me laugh, to the point where I now have to blow my nose. I'm sorry, but you give me a second. Oh God, please be careful. Don't worry, the blood stopped days ago. I'm good, okay,
Laura 41:43
I heard like a faint sound in the background. I was like, Wait, was that I
Scott Benner 41:47
did a very like, I'm only allowed to blow my nose lightly and okay if I sneeze. And, God knows, I didn't know this was possible till the guy told me, you have to open your mouth and sneeze through your mouth. I didn't know that was possible either. Well, I've done it three times this week. Wow. Yeah, I'm still pretty super sore. Yeah, I can imagine things are pretty sore So, but anyway, that's not the point of any of this, is it? Let's get back to the things I was saying that people will be mad about. I don't know, like I have things, I guess, so I maybe don't. How do I put this? I'm at a point in my life where, within reason, I could go buy something that I wanted, and you know what I go by? What nothing? I worked my whole life to get to a point where I could be comfortable saying, I'm going to spend $200 and now I don't want anything. Is
Laura 42:37
that because you already have things that, like, take up space in your mind, like when, when you talk about that, I it makes me think of my dad. My dad retired in May of last year, and all talking up to it, he was, like, super nervous about not being fulfilled, or not knowing what to do to fill his time. And he he actually, like, didn't retire for a few years because he was so afraid of that. He was afraid of being bored out of his mind, not knowing what to do, whatever. And then the second that he retired, he has loved it. He has never found himself bored. He's like enjoying himself the most he's ever enjoyed himself. He's happy. He's stress free, sleeping good, losing weight, everything. So it's like, when I think about your case, it's like you might not discover that about yourself until you have to, you know, yeah,
Scott Benner 43:26
I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you. That wasn't my exact point, but we can do both things. My point was, is that there's nothing that I want. I spent my whole life getting in a position where I could get things if I wanted them, and then I got to the position where that was reasonable, and now I don't want anything. It's just very it's very disappointing, you know, like, I thought I'd get to there I'd be like, All right, like, I'm gonna buy something now. And then I just, like, I don't really care. The thing
Laura 43:55
about if you didn't have your kids, or if you didn't have your wife or the podcast, what would you spend your time doing? Oh,
Scott Benner 44:00
I would get up in the morning. I would probably take a nice warm soak. I'd probably go for a walk, have an egg. I think I'd spend a couple of hours tending to, like my chameleons and the plants that like the vivariums they live in and stuff like that. And then I, I don't know, I'd make this podcast still, so I almost have the podcast in a place where it can be part of my life forever without it killing me. So I build it up to a place where it's popular and there's still a lot of work that goes into keeping it there. Like, social media is terrible. Like, you know, the way, I mean, anything's terrible. Like, you you know, if you opened a candy shop in your town, you'd have to work hard to, you know, keep it going for 20 years. But like, so there's always going to be that part of it, keeping it in people's consciousness, making it something that people still want, you know, need desire, like, can use, like, whatever. But the big pressure around that it's over, I climbed a mountain now, like, I'm up there. Like, no. What's left is it's a game of King of the Mountain. Now, like, you know what I mean? Like, I made it up there. Now I have to, I have to stop other people from trying to knock me off. Which happens, yeah, it sounds ridiculous. I hear it as I'm saying, how ridiculous it sounds. But that's happening constantly, right? There are other people out there that want you to hear their content, and I suck the air out of that vacuum, yeah? So, like, they'll spend a fair amount of time trying to discredit me or push me around, or say things behind my back, or go to advertisers and bitch. Like, there's a lot of that that goes on. I wish it wasn't true, but it's a really dirty space, like, no different than any other space, honestly. Yeah, right, yeah. So I got up there, I think I sucked the air out, and so I exist a bit in a vacuum, and they're trying to break in. So there's time I have to spend with that. There's time I have to spend managing the online community stuff, which is generally wonderful, but periodically, I swear, oh my god. And, you know, right now, it's the political climate, and every everyone's ranting and raving about what they think is being taken from them and, like, and I have a little more long view of things. I'm like, Look, I don't not think you shouldn't be out there, you know, swinging hands for yourself and everything, but, like, some of the things they're worried about, I'm like, that's not gonna happen. Like you're gonna wake up three months from now and realize that was never going to happen. Yeah, the way I think of it is like we can't run around like everything is a fire, like we gotta wait till there's actually a fire, you know? And right now, everybody's acting like everything that's said is a disaster. And I'm like, and then the problem is, is that when you try to come down the middle and look at that, then people think they know my politics, which I guarantee you, is not true. Yeah, right. So my moderating self is different than my personal anyway, that stuff's a bit of a thing, but that's
Laura 46:54
and that's not even like, what you want the space to be for, you know, and people, people turn it into that. And then you have to navigate away from that. Like,
Scott Benner 47:02
I come in, I go, like, this is a community for people with diabetes. We're not here to talk about your political concerns, yeah? And they'll say, well, that impacts my diabetes. And I'll and to that, I would tell them, that's wonderful, and you're probably not wrong, but that's not what this space is for. Yeah? You know, like you might be hungry while you're at church, but you can't bring your grill in and start cooking while the preacher talking. There's a thing going on here. We're doing a specific thing. It's for this. Yeah, if you want to go talk about that, go start your own thing, or find a place where people are talking about that. I think that's wonderful. I honestly, I genuinely do think that's wonderful, but that's not what this is for. Exactly like, this is a place where somebody comes in and says, I don't know how to Bolus for my food. I'm all over the place with my diabetes. I'm having, you know, you know, some sort of psychological struggles. I don't need those people getting there and seeing 11 people screaming about Dr Fauci, because whether those 11 people are right or wrong doesn't matter. It all looks crazy. Yeah, you know. And so like, I want people to be comfortable. I want it to be an oasis for them, yes, for sure, anyway, so that even that part, it's not that much work. It's just frustrating. Back to your initial idea, like, if I was retired, I could still be retired, but make the podcast, but not be working so hard. Yeah, I was speaking with a media consultant recently, and they said, like, what's your goal here? I said, 10 more years. I'd like to make it for 10 more years, and in those 10 years, behind the scenes, I want to try to find a way to automate it so that people can have it in the future when I'm not making it anymore. Like, those are my, like, my goals for it, yeah. And I said because if I have to still work 10 years from now, in my mid 60s, I don't know, I'm going to be pissed. I gotta be honest. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. Like, I think the truth is, is that I know people say you're not what you do. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's like, you know, people are like, Well, you can't, you can't live your life being your work. But to some degree, I don't think that's a bad thing, yeah, you know,
Laura 49:14
and I don't want to get religious, but for me, my work is not like my purpose. And I think a lot of people who make that their purpose, when they're done with it, they feel lost,
Scott Benner 49:28
yeah, because it's gone then, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I don't think the podcast is my purpose. I do find fulfillment from it. And there is something, and you have this too, right? Like, isn't there something cool when somebody walks out better off than when you met them? Yeah? 100% Yeah, right. That seems better to me than some of the other things I've done in my life for money. Yeah? So I don't know. I mean, i In the end, I think the honest truth is, if I didn't have my family, I'd be bored. And I do think that's awesome. I think that's great. Me, and I do think I get sad eventually if, like, everybody was just not here,
Laura 50:04
yeah, and I think that's kind of how it should be, yeah, I
Scott Benner 50:07
guess so. But maybe I can make one of those late in life families like, what? Like a lady down the street and I have a kid together and no one knows about it, and then I can start over again. No, maybe,
Laura 50:17
maybe not. I'm just kidding. I mean, you can do what you want, but I would recommend against that
Scott Benner 50:26
some sad, 32 year old lady who's like, been divorced three times, and she's just like, He's nice, this is good, but I'm like, and I'm like, but I'm 60, and she doesn't matter. I'm lonely and like, you know, and then it turns into, like, a TV show, be awesome.
Laura 50:37
I think that's maybe when you should get like, a cat or a dog. Oh,
Scott Benner 50:40
my God, I have a dog. The worst is this the time where I, no, I'm not going to have that conversation yet. Never mind. We have a dog. So do I or so a great dog. Love the dog, not saying otherwise. Okay, okay, all right. What have we learned here? Like, let's look back over this first, by the way, did we go for any of the things you meant to come on for? I didn't
Laura 51:03
really have a goal of coming on here. I feel like maybe I was looking at it as a source of therapy for
Scott Benner 51:08
me. Let's see what you said. Lack of education around type one and type two. Diabetes, isolation around diagnosis. You felt isolated, yeah, because how's that possible you're in the medical field,
Laura 51:21
because no one other than that, one coworker, no one has type one diabetes, no one talks about it. Before I got diagnosed, I had a horrible understanding of it, and so now I have this brand new perspective, and I don't really have anyone to share with, at least not online. I do, but not in person, and it feels very isolating when you try to talk about it and people don't understand the way you want them
Scott Benner 51:49
to. Okay, maybe I should start a van tour of the US, right? I could just go to different places, and we could all get together and have lunch together and talk. That'd be awesome. Yeah, I don't know it seems like a lot of time for me, but All right, I'll think about it. But seriously, do you do you wish you knew more people in person? Oh, yeah, 100%
Laura 52:11
it's very, very isolating when all the factors that go into diabetes people, they just don't understand it. Not to say that talking about it with someone who doesn't have type one diabetes, isn't without purpose, but it's a different kind of feeling, versus when you're talking about it with someone who does understand,
Scott Benner 52:29
yeah, trust me, I fight with that too, like I realize I don't have diabetes, and somehow this podcast is as popular as it is, and I do wonder sometimes, like, Does that piss people off?
Laura 52:41
But I also think having a child with type one puts you in that category. I think
Scott Benner 52:46
grandfathered in. Yes, yeah. So you can be grandfathered in. I'll take that. I actually saw just today, like somebody online saying, like, I'm so tired of people who don't have diabetes telling me about my disease. That's how they put it, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I thought, Oh, I wonder if that like, stretches to me, or like, or if I get a pass actually, is what I thought. So yeah.
Laura 53:07
And it gets very isolating, like, a lot of times when I think, Oh, I could bring up my type one. It's like, oh, it's not worth it, because they're not going to understand. And so that gets very exhausting too, because it's like, I don't feel like putting in the effort to make them understand one because I they're not going to unless they have it, which it's not their fault, but also like they just won't understand no matter how I explain it to them. So it's, it feels very defeating. So you
Scott Benner 53:35
want a connection with other people, but the bridge to getting that connection is too exhausting? Yes. Oh, that makes sense. So you need to find somebody who already understands it so it can kind of go without saying you can just exist together and that would be comforting. Yes, oh, yeah. That's interesting way to think about it. Okay, have you tried doing that with other people, or do you just believe it would be exhausting?
Laura 54:01
I've done it, obviously, with my husband and with my parents and very, very close friends of mine, but like, I don't talk about it at work. A lot of people don't know that I have it at work, and I'm not very open about it. And I think part of that is what we just talked about, but part of it also is, like, I just don't feel like putting in the effort to explain to them and that
Scott Benner 54:24
feeling right there that you almost can't put into words, that's the isolation. Yeah, yeah. 100% that sucks. Is there a way out of it? Is there other things you can do to fill that void? I'm
Laura 54:36
trying to become more comfortable with talking about it, and I feel like if I just become more comfortable with it and accept the fact that they're not gonna understand, because how can they, you know, like they don't have it, like I can't understand cancer on the same level that someone else does that has cancer. So it's like, I can't blame them for that. So I think becoming more comfortable just talking. About it will, in turn, make me feel less isolated. Yeah,
Scott Benner 55:05
what stops you from being comfortable talking about it? Is it the idea that they're not going to get it? You're gonna have to go into deep conversation about it, or is there something else too
Laura 55:14
that? And I mean, working in healthcare, people just make jokes about diabetes constantly, and I don't want them to feel like they can't be themselves, or like, I don't want them to think of me differently, like, I don't know, make jokes like, I've had co workers make jokes like, can you really eat that? Or like, go eat a cookie, or like, stuff like that. I just don't want to deal with that, to be honest. Yeah, I hear that. Oh my god. It's easier. It's easier just to not talk about it. Then is
Scott Benner 55:41
there two sides to that coin? Like, do you not want to impede them from just saying whatever they want to say, but at the same time, you don't also want to be the butt of their joke? Or do you not mind that part? I think
Laura 55:50
I do mind it. It's not by choice. Like, I don't I wish I didn't care. But it's also like, I just don't want them to think of me differently. Like, I just want to be the co worker, and I don't want to be the co worker with type one diabetes, you know, you're just Laura, yeah, which I don't like. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. I guess you'll
Scott Benner 56:11
find out. I guess so. Probably a good thing. You can't go wrong being yourself, you know. But you don't want to hide yourself, and you don't want to spend your time defending against other people's misunderstandings or ignorance is either. So yeah, what do you do? Yeah, I guess you live and you learn and you adjust. Yeah, I just realized that on my whiteboard it says 2024 and we are almost three months into 2025 so
Laura 56:38
nice. We're in that transition period. We're still in February. You
Scott Benner 56:42
think so? You think this is still it's still okay that I don't realize that the following year has occurred. I just looked up at it. I was like, 2024 What the hell. What an ineffectual whiteboard I have that's really not doing anything for me. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should have.
Laura 57:02
Oh, I don't think so. I think we, we covered everything.
Scott Benner 57:06
How was this for you? It was awesome, yeah. Are you nervous, though? Not no good. You were nervous at the beginning. Yeah, yeah, it's understandable. I'm very, very famous. You imagine how ridiculous that is? No, it's not ridiculous. No, it is. It's very ridiculous. Don't stop trust me, this is ridiculous, all right, anyone who feels like I'm famous, you're having a weird feeling you shouldn't be having. Maybe
Laura 57:33
not famous, but like very well known or recognized, yeah,
Scott Benner 57:37
any of those things are ridiculous. Trust me, I'm just at the grocery store. That is just me. I'm just I go to the grocery store, grocery store, I come back again. I make the podcast. I go to sleep in between, I pay some bills sometimes. And I look at a lot of emails like, I appreciate that you guys email, but there's so many emails, just so you're doing your best. There's so many. Oh, and the marketing stuff is crazy. Just, yeah, I can imagine insane amount of people who want to be like, they want a piece of it. They want their thing on it. They want to it's just, it's never ending. And, like, some of it's cool, like, you know, I'm already with some of it, but, like, I'm looking at this email right now,
Laura 58:18
like, what is this? Can you hire somebody to help you with that. I
Scott Benner 58:22
mean, if I had money, I guess I could be
Laura 58:25
all you said you could buy whatever you wanted. Yeah. I
Scott Benner 58:27
mean, that people, you know, what I've learned is that when you hire people to things they want to be paid like a really fair wage, which, I mean, is understandable, but, you know, limiting for me in the situation I'm in. I mean, I'll tell you the truth, like I'm in a very weird spot this, this podcast is in, sits right in the 97th percentile of all podcasts like, I mean, every active podcast, I do better than 97% of them by downloads. That's crazy, as insane as it sounds, I would never be able to get to the 99th or 100% those are like outliers. They're like super famous people. They're like the Kelsey brothers and Joe Rogan and stuff like that, right? Like, there's, yeah, there's no chance you're getting there. I have an outside chance to get to the 98th percentile. That would actually set me up to be able to do more like that. Really, I sit at a precipice.
Laura 59:21
Wait so that that small change in percentage changes a lot of like, your capabilities, financially,
Scott Benner 59:27
it would change a lot of capability, really, yeah, but the leap from 97 to 98 is next to impossible. I can't seem to make it interesting, yeah, which is why I was talking to a to a PR professional, yeah, because, because, if I'm going to take a shot at it, like, now is that now is the time that's very interesting, yeah, like, so think of me right now as a really talented college athlete who needs a trainer to get drafted. Okay, that's kind of where I'm at. I could stay here forever. This would be, this is very, very. Are you comfortable it makes enough money to like that I can do it as my job, which is awesome. Like, if I made that last leap, I would hire a staff to do a number of different things. I would, I'd love to have people doing more community, like, not moderation, but just being there, helping people like, yeah, their job to be in the community, like, answering questions, because there's people who do it, as, you know, just helpers, which is awesome. But I'd love to be able to take a few of those people and say, Hey, listen, I could make this a part time job for you. Would you be interested in that? Yeah, I'd love to be able to compensate my editor better. I'd love to be able to, you know, do a number of things, buy ads that would help the podcast grow. But those things all, like, the amount of money that the like, that stuff I just mentioned, just hiring people part time, and paying somebody a little better, and buying ads, you're probably talking about a couple of $100,000 a year. Yeah, adds up quick, yeah. And you're talking about, like, having more of a business structure behind me to, like, now you're paying people and, you know, yeah, it's just, yeah, it's a whole, like, I don't have time for that. Yeah. No, that makes sense, yeah, so, but that little leap would do that. But that leap is it's crazy. Like, to get from 97 to 98 I'd probably have to double my listenership.
Laura 1:01:17
Wow. I didn't realize that it's still
Scott Benner 1:01:20
a podcast, right? Like, so for everybody who's listening today, who's like, This podcast is awesome. I love it. I'm gonna listen to it forever. Nine months from now, they'll be like, I only listen to one a week now, or I like, you know, like, like it. And that's fine. And new people come in. It's the expectation of how it works, right? But I just need one viral moment, and then I could live in that space instead of the space I'm living in, yeah, yeah. And as crazy as it sounds, COVID probably got me to where I am now. I
Laura 1:01:48
can totally see that, yeah, but let's not waste another COVID,
Scott Benner 1:01:52
yeah? So aside from the fact that I don't want that to happen again, yeah, I just need one of those, like, but that doesn't happen for regular people, yeah, like using the kelseys podcast as an example. I want to say I'm a Philadelphia Eagles lifetime fan. I think Jason Kelsey is, like one of my favorite players ever. Their podcast isn't very good, but I've never listened to it. Well, listen, I like them and all, but it's not an hour sit for me. Yeah, I love them, and I love what they're talking about, and I kind of can't get through it, but they had a moment, right? Travis starts to date Taylor Swift, and they leapt, yeah, and now they live in the leap, right? And so you're famous, something like that can happen. Nothing's gonna happen where I'm gonna leap like that,
Laura 1:02:41
yeah. Well, not that it's not going to happen. You still don't know what it is. Well, that's
Scott Benner 1:02:45
very thoughtful and hopeful of you. I've been making this for 11 years now. You think you could possibly get going because
Laura 1:02:51
you just said COVID helped you. So you never know what's going to come about. COVID
Scott Benner 1:02:56
helped because everybody was at home and they were just like, I don't know what to do. I might as well learn about my diabetes, yeah. And I retained that level, that leap level, yeah. And before that, I was on a constant build, like the pockets just got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and every year, then COVID happened. And if I'm being honest, I can let the cat out of the bag. Now, most people making podcasts, I think, initially thought, oh, nobody's in their car anymore. They won't need my podcast. And I thought, nobody's got anything to do. They need more podcasts, yeah. And so I doubled down when everybody else laid back, yeah. And so I left there. That was nice, and that put me about where I am now, and I get a ton of new listeners all the time. The way the charts work, the charts are mostly like you would think that you chart by download, but you chart by download and by new listeners. Interesting. So I'm constantly at the top of my chart because I'm constantly adding new listeners, but I don't add them two for one. So I probably add as many as I eventually lose. Yeah, and because people there are, for every person who comes on and wants to hear a conversation with you, half of them really just want to hear the Pro Tip series and and then get the out and go back to their lives. You know what I mean, which is, all, listen, it's cool. It's whatever people want is awesome, but I don't have a three for one transfer. I probably go from like two to one back to One to One, two to one back to One to One. And that's what keeps me here, which is awesome. I'm not complaining about that, but it's, it's what stops me from leaping What
Laura 1:04:36
about like, interviewing other people in the same area as you like, but other well known diabetes influencers, because they
Scott Benner 1:04:46
Yeah, but yeah, but I don't want to be cruel, Laura, but I see why they would want me on their thing. But what do I get from them being on my thing? I mean,
Laura 1:04:55
they bring a whole other. I mean, not a whole other on. Audience, but they bring other audiences.
Scott Benner 1:05:01
They're not talking to many people the way you think they are. Okay, you know more than me, yeah, um, it's almost back to what you said about like everybody's having a baby. Yeah? It feels to you like everybody's having a baby because seven year friends put up baby pictures. Yeah, you can go online and look like one thing, but it not necessarily be exactly what's happening. So there are people who do a good job of looking popular, but they don't actually drive people. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. The way I've put it in the past is that you can dress up a podcast like a storefront window, and when you're walking down the street, it could catch your eye, and it could be awesome. And then you open the door and realize there's nothing in here, yeah,
Laura 1:05:49
but it still looks awesome. Yeah, no, no, that that makes sense.
Scott Benner 1:05:53
Yeah. I'm not good at social media, so I don't look awesome. But when you step inside, there's a lot of people in there, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what would end up happening, probably, is that I would spend a lot of time doing other content that no one would see, yeah, and then I just don't have time for that. Not that I wouldn't like just do it for fun or anything like that. But if you're looking at it just specifically from numbers, I don't think, as a friend of mine would say, the juice would be worth the squeeze. Yeah? So yeah, sucks. I wish they could, but it just also, if you take a longer view of it, over the last five years, comedians started a lot of podcasts, yeah, and they did that thing. We'll all be on each other's podcasts, but all they did was burn out the whole genre. Really, do you listen to seven different comedians podcasts? No, I listen to one, right? Which one armchair? Okay? Expert, so is it the one you started with? Yeah, yeah. And then he drags a bunch of people in to try to give them some like sunshine, and that doesn't work for them, yeah? Does work for him, though, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. So I would end up being the guy going on armchair and not getting anything out of it if I did that. Yeah, nothing works the way you think it does. Yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah, it's it's really, really, it's just a lot of work.
Laura 1:07:14
What? So what you're saying is I don't have the answer to all your problems.
Scott Benner 1:07:17
No one does. What I'm saying is I don't actually have a problem, yeah. I have a desire, yeah, yeah. And so I work towards it, but so far, I have not found anything that just springboards you to that next space, yeah, and maybe this is where I belong, which would be awesome. Seriously, I pulled the list up while you were talking and I am, you know, 20 spaces from the top of my category, and ahead of me are people who are famous, have run for president and or mostly been on Joe Rogan a number of times, and that's where they got Their popularity from. That's crazy, yeah, like, so that's how a lot of these people pump up their thing. They get that one time bump. They get on Rogan somehow, which is not a thing. I'm not saying that's what I'm trying to do or not do. I'm just saying, like, they get on a big thing, they get a ton of new listeners. That leaps them up, and then the fact that their podcast is good, keeps them there to leap again. I would need somebody with a much larger reach than I have, and in this space, that's me.
Laura 1:08:31
So what about someone famous that's not in the diabetes
Scott Benner 1:08:35
space? Why would they want to talk to me? I don't know because,
Laura 1:08:40
because you are, you are also a well known podcaster.
Scott Benner 1:08:44
But what did they get out of it? That's how they're gonna look at it. Yeah,
Laura 1:08:47
but you in doing that, you also expose their name to a whole other.
Scott Benner 1:08:53
I know that's how it feels, but that's not how they that's not how it works. Now, they're the gatekeepers. Now not You're not the gate you're not gatekeeping for them. They're gatekeeping for you. And the way you get on one of those shows is to know somebody. I don't have that. And trust me, I've gone that route a number of times. Like I've talked to people who know people and tried to like and it's just never, sort of, it doesn't go anywhere. It's not sexy. I don't have abs. I'm not 25 I'm not pretty. You know what I mean. Like, none of that's gonna work out for me. Like, that's not what they they need content that keeps their thing strong. They're not looking to help me. If I get helped along the way, they'd be okay with that, but I'd have to help them first. And this is really sad,
Laura 1:09:34
but this is what this is. No, I mean that, yeah, that makes sense.
Scott Benner 1:09:37
Like, people say, oh, you know, you should add video to it. It's not the answer. It's a different like YouTube views are bullshit. They don't actually do anything like you don't think people really sit down and watch hour long YouTube videos all day. Do you some people do? Yeah, those aren't the people that advertisers are looking for. You know what I mean? So sure. That's the other side. Side of all this, which is, I would love to just make the podcast, but I also have, like, an electric bill and things like that, yeah? So that's true, yeah? So like, the podcast has to be popular enough for advertisers to want to be on it. That really is 60% of my day. Wow, that's a lot. Is making advertisers happy so that I can continue to have a conversation with you about something like this, so you know what the real answer is here, what one of y'all has got to be rich enough been so bored with your money that you just call me up and say, how much to run this thing for the next 10 years? Let me just write you a check. Then I set it up, and we go help people with diabetes, and we don't have to worry about advertising anymore. We don't have to worry about social media. We don't have to worry about all that, and then it's just out there for people to use. But that's never gonna happen either.
Laura 1:10:51
So yeah, I wish I could be that person, but I am not. I heard your story.
Scott Benner 1:10:55
It isn't you, so no, it's not me. All right, you're awesome. I really do appreciate you doing this. You let me talk a lot today, which is nice, because I haven't talked to anybody in like, a week. So there you go. You're welcome. I got it all out here on you. Great. All right, so we're just gonna call this Laura's lore, right? Because, you know, yeah, I'm not following Well, no, well, because lore, right? Like stories, stuff that gets passed down to people. Oh, sure, sure, sure, yeah. So this could be the lore of Laura. This could be Laura's lore, Laura lore. I'll find something in there. Yeah, you think on that. Shut up, leave me alone. All right, hold on a second.
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#1494 Drone Attack
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
Nick, a father battling anxiety and anger, discusses managing his 4-year-old son's T1D (Modi) with heart defect and genetic implications.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.
Nick 0:14
I am Nick and I am from New Jersey, and I have a now four year old that is a type one diabetic. Actually, we found out a few months after his diagnosis that he has Modi, which I know kind of comes and goes through the podcast.
Scott Benner 0:31
Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. AG, one is offering my listeners a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of d3 k2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drink. AG, one.com/juice box. To get this offer, don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. Are you an adult living with type one or the caregiver of someone who is if you are, I'd love it if you would go to T 1d exchange.org/juicebox and take the survey. When you complete that survey, your answers are used to move type one diabetes research of all kinds. So if you'd like to help with type one research, but don't have time to go to a doctor or an investigation and you want to do something right there from your sofa. This is the way t 1d exchange.org/juice box. I'm having an on body vibe alert. This episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by ever since 365 the only one year where CGM that's one insertion and one CGM a year, one CGM one year, not every 10 or 14 days ever since cgm.com/juicebox, this episode is sponsored by the tandem Moby system, which is powered by tandems, newest algorithm control iq plus technology. Tandem mobi has a predictive algorithm that helps prevent highs and lows, and is now available for ages two and up. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox
Nick 2:30
I am Nick and I am from New Jersey, and I have a now four year old that is a type one diabetic. Actually, we found out a few months after his diagnosis that he has Modi, which I know kind of comes and goes through the podcast with some confusion, and I'm still a little confused about it, too. But my wife and I just had a another son in September, two boys. Thank you. Yeah. We're just a blue collar family living in North Jersey.
Scott Benner 3:01
Awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming on doing this. And I don't think I've ever recorded on New Year's Day before, but here we are so happy new year. Same
Nick 3:08
to you. My wife said, Why are you doing the new year's ago? I don't know. He's very busy. He has a lot of people he records with. So
Scott Benner 3:13
my wife said the same thing to me this morning. She was, why is this happening? And I was like, Honey, the schedule is what the schedule is. I'm like, I send out the link. People grab what's available. She goes, Why? Available. She goes, Why did you not block off New Year's Day? And I was like, I don't know. So,
Nick 3:26
so I actually am pretty tied up at work. Usually, I work for the biggest utility company in the state, okay? I am usually, like, working a lot. So I was like, oh, New Year's Day,
Scott Benner 3:37
right? Yeah, listen, I recorded on New Year's Eve. I recorded, I think I recorded on Christmas Eve? Did I? No, that one got canceled at the last minute the day before Christmas Eve. I recorded three times the day after Christmas I recorded. So you know, it is what it is. You work when you you work when you can
Nick 3:56
work. Yeah, you're finding a lot of people have a lot of stories. Yeah,
Scott Benner 3:59
it's awesome. Let's hear about your story. So how did you first recognize diabetes? What was the process of being diagnosed? So
Nick 4:06
it's pretty, pretty interesting, and it's pretty rare. So my son was born with three heart defects, and I always kind of messed them up, but I just know that they, you know, two of them were not so good, and one was a normal, like defect that is in a quarter of the population. So he had a coronary art arterio fistula, which is where a artery is growing behind the heart. And it was a an extra artery, I believe, is how it's described to us. My wife is really good with this stuff. I'm just really good with the diabetes part. And then he had a flap that wasn't sealed, which is in a quarter of the population, which is not a big deal. And then he had a, I call, I just say, simple, a canal, whatever, that was too narrow, and but all these things, you know, kind of healed themselves over the next year. Were, we were doing a lot of echo scans and stuff like that in the first year, and blood work regularly. And the blood work kept coming back with high blood sugar, and they kept writing it off every couple weeks and months as we were doing it as, oh, he just ate, oh, he's just fighting a cold. Oh, babies have higher blood sugars than regular people. Then it was finally, kind of like, well, you know, let's figure this out. Can we do? And they like, what's doing? A 1c so on the weekend before MLK Day, the Friday before, I took him to a very good phlebotomist in the in the Morristown system, and so he comes back with an 1111, A, 1c and they're like, that's, there's no, there's no, there's no question about this, get to the hospital. So I was like, in shock, because I, you know, I you know, you hear diabetes. You hear type two, mostly. And I was just like, I was like, already crying. I'm like, What? What? The hell. Like, why? Why us? And I didn't even know what I was getting into. My wife was just broken down. My mother was upset. We were I was at our house, and we just had a nice day together after all these months of stressing about his heart, now it's his, his sugar and where it spent three days there it was, was a learning process there, but she my wife, was really good with the calculations, and I was good with the MDI, then injections. So we left after the three days, and when I left there, I just had more so many questions. I was listening to your podcast that that, you know, that those days driving back and forth from the house to get stuff, you know, I found you guys right away, and it was an immediate like, not relief, but immediate like, there's information out there. Yeah, it's
Scott Benner 6:37
only so alone that you can feel before you need something, you know, to to try to fill that, that black hole that comes very quickly. Did they, or have they since? How long ago was this? Now, couple years
Nick 6:48
this is the diagnosis. Was January, 17, 2022,
Scott Benner 6:52
okay, and he's four now, right? Just turned four November into November. So the the heart defect is immediately caught at birth.
Nick 7:02
He spent 10 days in the NICU for hypothermia, whatever, you know, cold. So he was in there for 10 days like they did, they did the regular test. They never heard any murmur or anything. Day one out of the hospital, we go to the doctor, then we have a day three, because it's a two week checkup now. So we gotta go for the two week check up a couple days later with a new doctor, and he hears it and goes, I wouldn't be worried, but you might want to get this checked out. He gave us this recommendation to the doctor he worked with at, you know, his fellowship, or whatever internship, whatever call it. So he we went there, and instantly they, they found the the problems they you know, he was, he was just, uh, like, 13 months old with the blood sugar and that so, but though, but with the heart, he was two weeks old, three weeks old. Okay, so immediately they connected us with Columbia, and they were going back and forth with doctors from Columbia, or the doctors from this practice were involved. It's the three heart defects are, I guess, extreme. The one alone is extremely rare. That Columbia is the place to go in this region, Northeast, and they only see 20 a year.
Scott Benner 8:08
Do they talk about a connection between the Modi and the heart defect at all? He had
Nick 8:13
inter uterine growth restrictions. He came out four pounds, 13 ounces. He was small, but not too small, but he was full 39 weeks, you know, it wasn't like anything like, you know, 32 week or anything so, but we they've never connected that Morristown, um, they had nice doctors, nice people. But we needed, we wanted more information. So we ended up going to Columbia for that as well, through a recommendation of a friend sister, who has type one. And so we go to Naomi Berry, and they were just kind of like, you might think we're crazy, but there's this thing called Modi you might want to we can check it for you for free. Like, oh, it's free. Go ahead, do whatever you guys do, you know. So we did the blood test, actually, no, it was a saliva test. Then they sent it, they came back. Oh, this is he's got a gene defect. And then, like, you can check anyone, your family, if you want. We got checked. And the insane thing is that me and my wife both another one in a billion chance have the same exact defect in the same exact gene. Wow. So we this is why he has diabetes. If one of us only had it, he would put maybe be like a type two, like, so I'm, like, a type two, okay, and my wife had gestational but her blood sugar is fine. When she's not pregnant, it's, you know, borderline, so, but, but that's, it's just, everything is just a weird connection, yeah? So I've never actually asked about the the heart connecting with the blood, because I think the blood is just the Modi caused by the genes. That's
Scott Benner 9:41
crazy. I mean, I've been digging around since you started talking, and I've asked our friend here on the internet, there can be a connection between Modi, which, of course, is called maturity onset diabetes of the young and for people who aren't aware. So there's an h n, f i, or one A and H N. F for a mutation, Modi one and Modi two. There can be a connection between that and the hNf for a mutation and congenital heart defects. So hNf for a mutations have been specifically linked to congenital heart defects. In some cases, studies show that individuals with that mutation can present with structural heart abnormalities, such as septal defects, holes in the heart walls likely due to H and F for A's role in embryonic development. Jesus, that's just like a one in a bazillion chance that the two of you get together, right? Let's talk about the tandem Moby insulin pump from today's sponsor tandem diabetes care, their newest algorithm control, iq plus technology and the new tandem Moby pump offer you unique opportunities to have better control. It's the only system with auto Bolus that helps with missed meals and preventing hyperglycemia, the only system with a dedicated sleep setting, and the only system with off or on body wear options. Tandem Moby gives you more discretion, freedom and options for how to manage your diabetes. This is their best algorithm ever, and they'd like you to check it out at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox when you get to my link, you're going to see integrations with Dexcom sensors and a ton of other information that's going to help you learn about tandems, tiny pump that's big on control tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, the tandem Moby system is available for people ages two and up who want an automated delivery system to help them sleep better, wake up in range and address high blood sugars with auto Bolus. When you think of a CGM and all the good that it brings in your life, it's the first thing you think about. I love that I have to change it all the time. I love the warm up period every time I have to change it. I love that when I bump into a door frame, sometimes it gets ripped off. I love that the adhesive kind of gets mushy sometimes when I sweat and falls off. No, these are not the things that you love about a CGM. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Eversense 365 the only CGM that you only have to put on once a year, and the only CGM that won't give you any of those problems. The Eversense 365 is the only one year. CGM designed to minimize the vice frustration. It has exceptional accuracy for one year with almost no false alarms from compression lows while you're sleeping, you can manage your diabetes instead of your CGM with the ever since 365 learn more and get started today at Eversense cgm.com/juicebox, one year one CGM,
Nick 12:44
the heart issue, he was already, like, considered, like a one in a million chance. And then the Modi, our Modi is, I believe they told us that in Naomi Berry, they have no other cases like him, and they haven't had someone in like, eight years that had the same gene defect like this. So he's got, he has Modi two, and I guess the gene is the GCK gene that's affected. Okay, so, but we all have that. The three of us have it. And then my youngest son, we did IVF to eliminate that, that handled that, we hope. I mean, it's in the hospital. I kept begging them to finger poke and begging. And they were like, he's fine. We're not doing that. We're not doing it. I'm like, I might do it. And they're like, No, you don't have to. But I just keep going back to in the hospital first time when they checked my, uh, Logan, my son, he was oldest son's blood sugar. It was like 90 something, and then it was like 70 something. And the nurse said, Oh, don't worry, he'll never have diabetes, he'll be fine. And I was like, oh, like, that always rings in my head. I'm like, I can't believe that she
Scott Benner 13:45
got a 90 and a 70. And she's like, that's it. No diabetes ever, right? Yeah. And
Nick 13:49
then my other son, my youngest son, is Luke, and he's was roughly, it came out at a 60 something, and then he was down to like, 40 somethings in the finger pokes. And they just kept saying, No, you don't need to. That's normal for a newborn. I'm like, Yeah, but it's not normal for our family. So can you just check and they just wouldn't do it?
Scott Benner 14:06
Well, it's something so well, listen, if you want difficult things done, come to Jersey. It is just, I mean, brutal is the right word, like the randomness of you two getting together and, you know, both having that gene. It's just, you know, I guess it boggles the mind a little. Yeah, you had more kids, though, like, so did they tell you it wasn't going to be a problem, or you shouldn't worry about it? How did you come to that conclusion? So
Nick 14:33
they told us that if we just did the old, natural way, and we would have a 25% guarantee you'd have diabetes, a 25% chance you would have no diabetes, and a 50% chance of unknown combination of, you know, either type one, type two, like, there's just unknown.
Scott Benner 14:52
You're the first person in this is, by the way, this is day one of my 11th year of making this podcast. And I've never heard somebody say they. Asked us to do IVF to avoid the possibility of like. So what? How does that change the possibilities?
Nick 15:05
So the the we're able to my like, I said, my wife is really good with this stuff,
Scott Benner 15:11
make your way through it. I mean, whatever you guys, how
Nick 15:15
it's described to me is, and they can. They took the egg, and they took the sperm, and they looked for the gene, and they removed it. Oh, then it was implanted, once it was mixed together.
Scott Benner 15:30
Oh, wow, a person in a lab picked out who your kid was going to be. I
Nick 15:33
love my son, but I was hoping for a daughter. Of all of the um, all of the eggs that were viable and that were, you know, healthy enough that didn't have that had a 0% chance of this diabetes. There was only one egg that was available, and it was a male. So we kind of said, We'll take the one egg that's the other ones had the other variations of 50% unknown, 20, you know. So, wow. We're like, you know. So we're like, just, you know what? We'll just have another boy.
Scott Benner 15:59
Science, huh? That's awesome. Yes, yes, that's really something. Well, I guess when they people are, like, one day you'll be able to pick your kids hair color and your height or whatever, and like, yeah, that's, listen, that's wonderful, yeah. Or do you think you'll have more? Was it expensive? I'm imagining so
Nick 16:16
it's, it's very expensive, and we're still battling with insurance companies over bills and stuff like that, and now it's this started last year and maybe February, so we're kind of still going back and forth dating my insurance. I didn't cover a penny of it because of our plan, but my wife's did partially. But so in the new year, when we knew that we were going to have give birth, you know, she could give birth, we switched to my insurance. So, because my insurance is better than hers, oddly enough, and she's in the medical field, which is just mind boggling. I've heard that before. So the we, we switched her back to mine. And then there was, there was, you know, back and forth with insurance companies of, oh, this heat, this time happened there. So we just decided that I don't want to have another one. I think the one having one diabetic son, who I stress over every minute of every day I'm obsessed with him, was like having two or three children. Yeah, you know, we're adjusting. I'm adjusting to the second one. What's but I don't know about a third one. She really wants a girl, and I do want a girl, but I do not want to I don't think we could handle three. Just grab
Scott Benner 17:26
one at the mall that looks healthy. I think you'll be fine. Yeah, I think that's illegal. No, you know what? They change the rules every day. You never know. So tell me a little bit about your stress that you have, about the diabetes. So,
Nick 17:36
yeah, my wife is, like, you should, like, talk about how you need, like, you can't get past your anger with it. And it's true, I am. It's a poor me. It's definitely a poor me thing. Because as a, you know, when I thought about having kids, was like, even when I was young, I was like, Oh, I can't wait to be a dad. The whole, like, landscape changed. It's not the same as what you pictured and what you want to do. And you know, you can't just go run around the park the same. You're just, you know, the sugar is dropping the you know, you're going, you're going, you're leaving the house with a backpack full of food. You're, you know, you can't go grab an ice cream cone. And I know everyone's gonna say you can, and you can, yes, you can. But to give a two or three year old three units, to me, is insane. You know what I mean? Like, it's hard that we barely give him, like, one and a half units for that's like a lot for his meals.
Scott Benner 18:26
You're scared of the insulin. So when you try to do something bigger, it's hard to do for you. So I
Nick 18:31
am and I am afraid of the insulin, but I'm not, like, at the same time as I understand that. You know, you give him point one unit, and that's gonna be one unit over three hours, not giving one unit right now, but there has been so many times where he given him one and a half units and he tanks like and and it's just like, doesn't make sense. It's like he had a whole thing of sugar, and he had like, and then he's, you know, so there's just times that are stuck in my brain, where it was he dropped so fast that it doesn't make sense to me that like, oh, is his body still making some is it like, are we so I'm just, like, is the blood moving too fast when he's running around? Like, everything is in my brain is just, it's like, you know, a tornado of, like, all these scenarios where I'm afraid to give them, like, you know, a unit and a half for, like, a, you know, even, like, one of those mini ice cream cones or something, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, I guess I'm afraid, but I'm at the same time I kind of understand what's really happening. Yeah, I always remember what you said is, like, trust the food, you know, trust it's gonna work. And you know that times that comes into my brain when he's at like, you know, 90 and has, you know, whatever unit active, and for some reason he's just dropping, and we poke him, and, you know, he's at 62 or something like that. And then I'm just like, the food's gonna work. Don't overdo it. Don't overdo it. And so you're actually what made me go from the 15 carbs suggested to the seven carbs when he's at, like, you know, 8590 right? And it's like, you know, so it's we just were experimenting through things that I've heard here, and, you know, so it's my wife as. A group that she's friends with, all from the like the Morristown um hospital that they connected us with. She'll ask them about, oh, how do you dose for this? How do you dose for that? And so we, you know, we have that stuff, but it's still just, it's still learning curve for our son, you know, it's different for everyone. So I'm just always nervous to give him too much insulin.
Scott Benner 20:17
I used to do a talk at a hospital up by Rutgers, but the person who would have me up to talk left the organization went somewhere else. But I used to make I used to do it every year, but they always did it during, like playoff season for football, and I was like, oh, and they would do it on Sundays, and I had to watch an Eagles game in the car one time. It was very upsetting, but, but I like going up there and doing that. So when you can trust that what you know is going to happen is going to happen. You're good with the insulin. It's when the variables come in that change it. You're just like, I can't go putting all this insulin into him, because and for you, a unit and a half, two units, would seem like a lot, because you're you can't be certain of it. So as you have more experiences, and as they start to play out the way you expect. Does that make you more confident? No,
Nick 21:03
because, like, His birthday was in November. So my wife's birthday is early November, and his end over. So we already started practicing with mini cupcakes from, like, whole foods that are, like, 13 carbs, yeah? And we were trying, like, the actual sugar on them, you know, icing on them. And we were just like, is he started preschool because he got classified for speech. And then, you know, he's, he's excelling in that. He's doing great. He's a, he's like, a mini genius. He's like, awesome. Thinking about his brain is, like, makes you so happy. Excellent in school. We said, okay, he's gonna be getting cupcakes for school. So let's do this stuff. And now you next thing you know, is he had dinner, and we finger poke him, like, let's, you know, or we check, look at the Dexcom. We give him the insulin off of that, but give, we give him the the food, and we waited appropriate, what we thought was appropriate. And next, you know, he's in the 60s, and it's like, what the hell happened? The experiences aren't always or very often, positive, so it just keeps getting stuck in my brain all the negative Nick
Scott Benner 22:02
Are you pre bowling too long? Maybe.
Nick 22:04
Actually, someone asked us on your Facebook the other day, and it was like, what we do is we do someone else told us this. From there, we do the one minute for every 10 whatever, milliliters or whatever. So it's like, if he's 90, we wait nine minutes. If he's 150 we wait 15 minutes, and we do that, and if it works out for the most part, pretty good, we try to wait 15 minutes as much as we can. But we also know that the pasta isn't doesn't hit him right now. So we don't wait too long with that, you know. So the bread is not gonna hit him right now. So we wait. We don't, we don't wait too long for that. You know, you don't want
Scott Benner 22:39
him to get low before the food comes online.
Nick 22:41
We're thinking about all that stuff, like, like, it's like, so we're not dumb people. It's just that, like, what I think our mistakes are is we're like, like, we gave him his dinner, you know, 15 carbs, whatever, and then we give him his like, 20 minutes later, we go and dose him again. Our 15 carbs for that cupcake. So it's like, well, I guess that was a mistake. We should have probably finger poked or not trusted the Dexcom there, or waited less because he had all that fresh insulin from earlier. So we're still trying to figure that out. We kind of got pizza down, like, just like that. Like, we got a couple, like, like, we you give them a smaller pizza. It's, it's a bar pie, you know, the thin crust, you know, that stuff like that. Like, it worked. Like, we got some stuff. But like, like, the things like, he wants at parties is that's really hard as far as, like, the cupcakes and the ice cream and the juices. Like, forget about we just give them. We give them the Capri Sun. One carb.
Scott Benner 23:32
Yeah, I was gonna say, don't juice. Uh, I mean, you don't want to be drinking juice anyway. But, yeah, I would stick with lower carb stuff as well. Well, I mean, listen, you're getting it. It's you haven't been doing it that long. Like, how long? I mean, it's been two years, right? And he was, how much does he weigh now, I guess is my question.
Nick 23:48
So it's gonna be three years in this three two weeks. So, so just for a picture of us, my wife is like, five four, and I'm like, five seven. Like, that's like, with the shoes on, like,
Scott Benner 23:59
So Nick's, like, I measure with my shoes on. I
Nick 24:03
work. I'm like, come on, you got to go. I got to do my BMI. I'm like, just let me keep my shoes on, you know, it'll help me a little bit. And I'm, I'm a bigger guy. Like, I'm, I'm on ozempic, you know. So I'm right now, I'm about 235 and I was 300 like, last year, yeah, good for you. So
Scott Benner 24:21
you lost like, 70 pounds. Yeah, wow, man, that's awesome.
Nick 24:25
Yeah. So when I was younger, I was 300 pounds, and I went down to like 185 and then I kind of settled off at like 210 and then, like, kids and life, and I just started getting worse and worse. But so my wife is, you know, she's, she's not like a twig either. So she's not big, but she's not small. So we're not like, we're not like skinny people, and we're not tall people. So his height is like 38 and a half inches, and his weight is like 38 pounds. So they consider him like high on the BMI scale, because he's so short and but he's a solid, muscular kid, like he's eats berries all day, like he. Eats a lot of, like, protein stuff. Like, you know, he's very healthy. Like, he thinks, like, animal crackers are junk food, because that's why I tell him, like, this is junk food, like, you know, I mean, so it's the worst you're gonna get kid, yeah. So he's got, we got a whole cabinet full of animal crackers and little Hershey Kisses and little mini Kit Kats and Reese's. We have, we have all this. He gets all that stuff every day, you know, but we try to mix in, like, peanut butter and like, like, the sugar free, cool whi cream in there and stuff. So his weight is, I think, appropriate for our body, body types, you know.
Scott Benner 25:32
Well, is there a possibility? Like, I mean, the reason I asked about his weight is because sometimes, just when they gain weight, it's easier to dose insulin. But like, is it possible? Is there a honeymoon happening? Or you're not? No
Nick 25:43
so I don't know. It's like because he made it a whole he was born with diabetes like he was. He made it a whole year with no insulin. So maybe that was his honeymoon period that kept him alive and out of DKA, yeah,
Scott Benner 25:55
I see what you're saying. What about activities? He's super active sometimes, but not others. He
Nick 25:59
is like a climbing machine. He loves climbing and running around. And he's just a, like, boys, boy, tough boy, like wrestling and, you know, he could find a reason to run around and swing, uh, anything at anybody. Like, he's just, he's like, a maniac. I was just
Scott Benner 26:15
wondering if, like, some of those lows are seeing, if they're like, around, like, bursts of activity. They
Nick 26:20
do come, they do see the drops from that and but I think I kind of try, like, again, I'm always watching the numbers, so I'll see, as a unit, active or something after dinner. And I'm like, All right, calm down for a few minutes, and he'll just be going crazy. And then, like, you know, then you just know, the drops coming, like, in 10 minutes. So, but they it does affect it, but it's just, he's just very active, and he, I mean, he does have his quiet times. He's, he's a different kid. He just found YouTube recently, and he loves watching people make dioramas, like, it's he. So he has his downtime because, you know, I just got Nintendo Switch. We play
Scott Benner 26:53
that occasionally. Like, he sits a little, but not a lot. He runs around. Yeah, it's like, 7525 Yeah. No, I hear you can can I pivot back again to I'd like to hear a little more. Sounds strange to say, but I'd like to hear a little more about your anger. So is it not dissipating at all? Are you thinking of talking to somebody about it? Like, where are you at with that?
Nick 27:13
I mean, my wife had gone to talk to people recently, and I think I've done about like eight sessions, and I yeah, when I'm there, it's all fine, dandy, and it's, you know, I talk and I I'm honest and but if I'm like, really mad still, the problem is that I talk to these people about diabetes, but I'm what I'm doing is I'm educating them on diabetes. I'm not, like, it's not helping me get past the part where they don't understand what I'm talking about. Like, so it's like, I'm telling them about diabetes and I'm talking to them, but they don't really understand
Scott Benner 27:52
well, I mean, a good therapist though, like, should pivot you away from the diabetes portion of the conversation to the anger portion, right? Because they should understand how to deal with the anger. Doesn't matter what it's over. Like, anger is anger. So are you going in there and using it as your opportunity to complain about diabetes instead of an opportunity to talk about your anger? No,
Nick 28:11
I I'm not. I'm like, going in there and just telling, like, what I'm actually thinking. I'm like, I'm not, like, a big like, liar or, like, you know, bring this subject over here. Like, I'm kind of like, what is on my mind is what I'm is on my mind. I'm surprised I'm not fired from my job yet. For some of the things I say, I'm not, like, a good hider of my feelings. Like, you like, you know, when I'm mad, you know, like, but it's just in the moment I'm not mad at like, anything that's happening. It's when, like, last night at 11 o'clock, his pump fails, and it's like, I'm trying to be positive for the new year. And it's here we go, same, different night, and now he's 280 and I'm going, I'm punching the, you know, the counter, just like in anger. And I'm like, why is this? You know, this? It's basically back to the the what? Why did it happen to my family? You know, like, of all the things I ever want in life, I don't have fancy cars, I don't have nice clothes. I don't, you know what I mean, like, I just want to have a happy and healthy family and like, that's like, not what I got. Like, you know, I mean, like, my wife tries her hardest, like, to make me happy, but I'm just, it's in my brain that the problem is not like, anything that like anyone's really gonna be able to I feel like, help me with it's like, I'm too tuned in to, like, I don't know, I'm just tuned to in the diabetes thing. I just can't get past it. Like it's something that's just like eating me alive. Nick,
Scott Benner 29:29
were you angry before the diabetes?
Nick 29:31
So before I had children, me and my brother was like, an angry guy, like he had kids, and he like, became like the mellow guy, and I was like, the most mellow, like, prank guy, like funny, like fun guy, and like everything with the heart and the, you know, you know the problems since I just turned me, me, my brother swapped roles, basically, like I am the angry guy and the I don't, I don't, like, freak out on people for no reason. It's like, I feel like, if there's a reason, like, I. Mad very quickly, but it's I'm not. I was never, I was always a mellow my mother would always say you were the mellow one, like you were the calm one, you were the easy color one, like you got to, like, calm down. But it's just my brain can't calm down from thinking about the sugar like I'm staring at it right now. I just can't stop staring at the sugar like I don't. It's like, he's fine, like he's 130 after lunch and you know, he's upstairs playing, and I just can't, like, stop thinking about it.
Scott Benner 30:24
Yeah, man, that sucks. Can I dig a little more into you for a second? Absolutely, I'm like, like, I said, I don't I can talk about anything in your past, any physical or emotional abuse. No,
Nick 30:34
no. No physical nothing, no, no. I, like my grandmother and my mother were all great. Like, my father wasn't around much, but, like, my grandfather wasn't around much, but like my my grandmother would watch us every day, and she was the like, she was a saint. She was the sweetest lady in the world. I was never, like, beaten or nobody that was a waste, or anything like that.
Scott Benner 30:58
Like, you know, emotional neglect, feel unloved, unwanted, unsupported, anything like that.
Nick 31:04
No. I mean, I think everyone else is doing their job. I think it's my brain,
Scott Benner 31:08
mental illness in your household, substance abuse, anybody separated, divorced,
Nick 31:14
incarcerated, incarcerated. My father spent some time in prison. My My father, obviously, they're divorced, but you know, since I was like, three, but, you know, nothing like my like I said everyone loved me like they should have. I felt like it wasn't like I was like, Oh man, I wish you would have tried harder on me.
Scott Benner 31:29
No, I know you don't usually feel that way, but you have a couple you should make sure you tell the therapist about that, in case you haven't, because it could really impact your anger. I know it sounds crazy, but we did this great episode, Erica and I on these key reasons why people have problems as adults. Those 10 they're called the aces. Those those 10 indicators are are very consistent with having issues as adults. So, you know, you should get somebody to go through it with you, because it's not going to stop, right? Like, because now you have that diabetes is a legitimate bad guy, so you're not going to have any reason to, like, you know, forgive it or let it go. That's why I think the anger keeps going, because it feels justified to be mad, but you're going to be real close, man like this, between you and me. You're going to be real close to your kid seeing your anger about diabetes is anger about him. And then that's not you don't want that, you know what I mean, and and it's not an easy thing for the kid to deal with. And then you're going to end up giving them one of the aces. And then blah, blah, blah. I know it's, it's a heavy lift, but I would, I would put a ton of effort into that if I was you, because I think it's going to help you. I mean, you're not going to be healthy or happy if you're angry all the time, and the kids definitely is going to see it as him at some point. You know what? I mean?
Nick 32:55
Yeah, I definitely, I try, I don't I mean, he hears it, obviously he hears it, but like, I try my hardest to not blame anything on the diabetes or him or the diabetes. It's just so I definitely hear what you're saying, yeah. I try my hardest to not put any blame on him or on, you know, I try, even with like, the youngest one, I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, I try not to blame it on, like, you know, I can't do this because I have to help the youngest one. It's like, Oh, give me one minute. I got to do something or, you know, so I try not to point the blame at them in any way, just because I can. I was kind of always pictured that like, he'll hear this and he'll get mad, you know, I
Scott Benner 33:30
don't imagine that. You do. I want to be clear, like, but it doesn't have to go that way for them or to feel that way. So, like, as an example, like, sometimes you'll see like, people have a baby, like, very young, and you know, it's on, it's unplanned, and the baby changes the course of their life. And then over the next 20 years of growing up, one of the parents clearly doesn't like the way that their their life went. But it doesn't mean they don't get up every day, love the kid, do the things are supposed to do all the stuff, but at some point the kid realizes, if I wasn't born, this wouldn't have happened, and they're unhappy because of the direction of our lives, and then they see their birth as the reason for that. Like you'll do all the right things and say all the right things, but if you're angry, the kid's gonna at some point think it's their fault. You don't have to tell them it's their fault, or to screw them up. Unlike my dad, who was nice enough to tell my mom that I was the reason he left, which I really appreciate, it only took me, like, 30 years to get through that so awesome. I mean, in my heart, man, like, I know you're a good guy, and I know you're not like, pointing at that, at your kid, I'm just saying, I think it resonates through the house. And kids can feel it as their fault. That's all. It's not gonna be easy, but I think if you go into counseling, stay with it, make sure they know about your background, so they can help you pick through you know you should be able to do something about it. I mean, has anybody talked to you about, like, actual physical ways of helping with stress, or. Like a punching bag. I mean, anything, however, you can get it out. You know what? I mean, yeah, scream and go on pillow.
Nick 35:05
No, no at the time. Like, I said, Well, you just talk about what's like on our minds at the moment. But like, if I'm not mad, like, I'm not thinking about, like, oh, this time I got mad. Like, let me tell him about this. Like, so, yeah, I guess people at work, and some people I work, I know, get like, how I feel and get mad, like, but the therapist, like, I spend more time with people at work than I do. You know that 45 minutes with a therapist? You know, so tough
Scott Benner 35:29
it really is. It's hard to like therapies. You know, it's a long haul situation, and if you get a bad therapist, you won't even know it right away. That's the other part that sucks. You know, as you put in a ton of effort and maybe don't see a return or not see a return. Does your wife have that kind of response? Like, what's her response to the diabetes? I
Nick 35:46
don't know she should play, like, poker or something, because she's definitely better than me. Like, she's the like, person that will negotiate the car sale down, and I'll be like, I'll pay full price. You're right. You know, she's like, really good at, like, hiding that stuff, like, in the moment, like, but she definitely handles it a lot better than I do. I think in the like, panicky moments, I excel, and then after is like, when I'm like, shaking, you know, I mean, like, and then she's like, kind of like, doing the shaking when I need her to, like, step it up and, but she's like, you know, so she that's how I feel, but she's like, she does what she has to do. She handles two kids, like, she's home right now. She does both kids, like handles their, you know, meals and finger pokes and Dexcom and pump changes and all that, if I'm at work. And so she does great, but she does, she does really good. Let
Scott Benner 36:28
me ask you a question. When she tells you what you're doing wrong, what does she tell you? Maybe I don't hear it. I would listen. They're wrong. I don't want my wife to
Nick 36:38
hear this. Okay, but no, she's she's gonna hear but like,
Scott Benner 36:41
often you just need another person to see you and to, like, make an assessment. You know what I mean? Like, so if she has an assessment about, like, your angry moments or the adrenaline, or the the the anxiety that you feel, like I I would try listening to what she's saying and try to apply it, because I'm sure she's got a view of you that you don't have of yourself. And I feel for you, man, like I've gone through everything you're talking about, like I grew up I was freaking angry as a kid and as a young adult, and I had kids, and my wife is the one who was like, Hey, man, you gotta calm down like, you know, and like, and was able to point it out to me when it was happening, and I'll tell you the first 50 times it happens, and it's pointed out to you, it's not exactly easy to just stop and absorb that you're overreacting or, you know, whatever. But eventually, like, I really, I thank her. She's, you know, really saved me in that regard. So, I mean, I know it's doable.
Nick 37:38
She'll tell me to just like, it's not like, so do the it's not a big deal. Just give them the juice. It's not a big deal. Just give them, you know, just give them the insulin. And, like, he'll come down and she does all the right things. But my brain is just like, in a different level, as far as, like, you know, is he getting sick? Is the pump working? Is, you know, whatever, like, all the things will pop my head, or is he getting the stomach bug? Is he getting this, like, you know, whatever like correlates with that, whatever the trend is, I'm like, thinking like, so, but like, so my brain just, I hear what she's saying, and it's like, Just give him the juice sale, drink it, give him the fruit. He'll eat it. Like it's he won't stop eating. In fact, you know, so just like, he'll be fine. And she says all that stuff. And I know most likely, or, you know, 99% of time, He will be fine. But I'm just sorry, like, like, last night when his pump, when he failed, and he was at 280 which is, again, not, like, insanely terrible, but, like, for two hours, but I'm already taking out the hospital bag and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Like, it's
Scott Benner 38:36
so, what happens there? Like, so, because I, at first I thought maybe you feel like you're failing, but it's not that, like, you go right into crisis mode all the time, right? Yeah,
Nick 38:43
yeah. I think that I I'm already going to, like, let me prepare for the worst and hope it doesn't happen. Well, Has it ever happened? So, I mean, we did end up in the hospital two or three, probably three times, but they're only for like, a couple hours where they did
Scott Benner 38:57
you need to be there, or did your overreaction put you in the hospital? No,
Nick 39:01
I think, I think we need to be there. I don't believe I don't want to go to the hospital. Like, okay, what? You know, one time it was down the shore on on Fourth of July weekend, and he was throwing up, like, multiple times, high blood sugars, yeah, so we, I, you know, I was on call at work, and I actually told him, Hey, you know I gotta, I gotta, I can't come in. I got to go to down the shore. And they're like, you gotta go down the shore for, I'm like, Yeah, it's like, legit. Like, it sounds bad, but like, and then like, so I shot down to like, LBI hospital, and it, you know, and they were poking them and needles and fluids and running tests and and it was just a common cold, but he just was vomiting and just couldn't keep sense, yeah, so, and then, you know, a couple of times where, just like, he's got high blood sugar, he won't drink any water, like, I'm giving him the insulin. It's not coming down, you know. And so we go and we get the fluids in them, and then they throw their tests, and it's like, yeah, just common cold and like, so, you know, it's
Scott Benner 39:55
so, but my point is, so those times have been around illness. Is that, right? Yeah. Okay, so then last night was an illness. It's just a it's just a site failure, yeah?
Nick 40:05
But my brain's like, I don't, I don't know what it is. It could be illness. Who knows? I mean, it's we saw how many people last week? And it's like, is he, you know,
Scott Benner 40:13
Nick, I'm gonna say something to you that if you listen to it will change your life.
Nick 40:18
I'm listening to all of be real quiet for a second. Worry
Scott Benner 40:20
is a waste of imagination. When you're worrying, you are making up stories about what may be without any knowledge if they are or not. And so you are just making stuff up in your head and then deciding to treat it like it's real.
Nick 40:35
You know, you've you've said plenty of things that stuck with me over the past couple years, so I'm really praying that it sticks with me, which sticks
Scott Benner 40:44
to you, like you are making that up. That's what's happening. You know
Nick 40:49
what? Like when you said it like I felt like a pressure come off my shoulders. So maybe it will stick. I'm not
Scott Benner 40:56
going to tell you that there's not actual things to worry about in the world, right? I said this to my kids, you'll appreciate this because of where you live. Two weeks ago, I'm in the kitchen, both of the kids are like, Hey, Dad, seriously, we gonna die. What's with the drones? Right? Like, so they're both panicking because they're on, you know, they both have social media, and they're looking and I'm like, listen to me. I'm gonna tell you something about the drones. Don't think about it again. Like, first of all, the planet's been here for a bazillion years. It's still here. We've been able to blow each other up since the 40s. I think the 50s. Nobody's done it yet. And I said, and if it happens, the great news is your skin's just gonna melt off your body, and you'll never know. So what are you worried about? Are you worried about a thing that you can't possibly impact anyway, right? And and if it does happen, will be a split second, you'll never even know what happened. So I said to them, like, that's I said to both of them. I'm like, you both drive daily. Do you worry that your car is going to crash into something and that the gooey bag of water that you are is going to pop? And they go, No. And I'm like, then why are you worried about this? I was like, because it's the same thing. It's a random event that probably won't happen, and if it does, you're really not going to know when it does. They were just like, making up. Well, I've heard that the drones are up in the sky looking for dirty bombs. I'm like, okay, my son, at one point, goes, Do you think we should move west? And I went, what? And he goes, Well, if this happens, you're gonna wish you did. And I said, No. I said, because I own this house, and I was like, and I have a job and I can't leave, like, if this is what's gonna happen, then this is our path. But the truth is, that's not what's gonna happen. And you're doing the same thing, like you're making up, like you're like, Oh, the drones are coming from us. Like, no, they're not. And to kind of draw this picture out a little farther, the social media is making them scared, more scared of the drones, right? And you're using the Dexcom information as the thing to keep you upset. So in my opinion, set alarms and don't look at it unless it beeps, because, yeah, you know, I mean, put the alarm wherever you're comfortable with your low alarm. I don't know where that is. If it's 80, if it's 70, if it's 90, I don't care. Like, right? Like, put that alarm there, and put a high alarm at a spot where you know that you can make an adjustment without experiencing a very high blood sugar. I don't know what that might be like. Maybe 150 would be a good for you to start with, so you're not constantly looking right. And if that thing doesn't beat Nick, then you don't look at it. And that'll teach you to relax. Because I imagine the way you're talking, it sounds like you're good with insulin. It sounds like you you understand things like, right, like you probably don't leave that range 70 to 150, that often to begin with, do you?
Nick 43:39
We're pretty tight. I mean, it's like, he's not like a low A, 1c, do you think he's a 6.2
Scott Benner 43:46
or 6.3 right? Well, that's an average blood sugar in, like, the 130s
Nick 43:49
Yes, he's is like, is like 128 to 135 is a normal a couple days stretch. They're, they're extremely happy at the nail Barry for his where he is. But when he hits, like, I have my alarm set at 180 my father in law gave him that same advice. He goes, just send it instead of 200 said at 180 and I go, yeah. So I mean, when hit 180 then I just get mad when I hear the alarm. But, like, so it's like,
Scott Benner 44:12
mad at do you think you're mad at yourself? Do you think you're like, What did I do wrong that let this happen? I don't
Nick 44:18
know what I'm I think I just don't want I'm just nervous. It sounds stupid, but I'm worried. Like, he started, he was born with this, and I remember hearing that like, you know, diabetes takes off, and after 13 years off a person's life, and it damages this stuff after so many years. Yeah, listen,
Scott Benner 44:35
you're talking to the right guy. I don't think you sound stupid at all. I'm right there with you. Okay, so if you're doing a good job of staying in that range, then the real thing to teach yourself is, if it's not beeping, I'm not looking, maybe the drones are in the sky neck, but it doesn't matter, you can't impact it. So like, if the 70 is turning into 80 is turning into 90, that goes all the way to 130 and that takes four hours. And. You're not involved with diabetes for that four hours, maybe your cortisol levels can drop for a second. Like it's possible you might just be in fight or flight constantly, and Dude, that's gonna make it harder for you to lose weight. It's gonna make it harder for you. You said you have type two. Uh, yeah, yeah. So that's gonna make it harder on you. And then, you know, you're just gonna have a different thing to worry about. You're gonna get unhealthy, and then you're unhealthy, and then you're gonna be like, well, who's gonna be here for my kids? And you know what? I mean, like, I'm not gonna say, like, put the air mask on first that before you help others, because it's just, I mean, been said 1000 times, but like, You got to be okay too, you know,
Nick 45:36
yeah, I hear you, yeah. Like, yeah. I mean, I am happy with his when he's in range. I'm like, like, nothing's a better feeling. But like, when he goes over or under, it's just that those emotions, I just can't keep him under control because I'm just like, the under, like, you know, I know that the under, the damage takes a lot longer than the, you know, like, it's not gonna but he's very rarely. He's had a couple experiences where he was, you know, under, you know, 60, like, maybe, like, one, one time we had to call the ambulance because he was shaken so much, and he was, his Dexcom was in the 40s, and then it was down to, like, low. And you know that, you know, what'd you do to get him back up? Yes, we gave him, like, 10 ounces of apple juice, or some crazy number, and then he was up at 300 for a while. And then, you know? But I was just happy he wasn't low anymore. So I was like, you know, the grass is always greener, I guess. Yeah, it's just, like, certain situations, I try to be realistic. Like, yeah, okay, he's, he's not 39 anymore. So let's, you know, it's okay that he's 300 for a little bit, you know. But it's just that, like, I feel like, if he's not in that range. I'm just worried, like, how long? Okay, you might not be in the range for an hour or three hours or five hours right now, because whatever reason, pump veil, you know, getting them down, but that five hours today, and then three hours tomorrow, and then seven hours the next day and one hour, you know, it's like, it just, I feel like it's just gonna add up. And,
Scott Benner 46:56
listen, it probably will. But with the attention to detail you have on this. It's not gonna happen like, you're going to figure this out. Like, that's the part you're not giving yourself, like, it's only been a few years and he's little, like, so like, you'll get better at this. You'll figure this out. And it's, it's your you have the most important thing of when I talk to people and I try to decide in my head, are they going to be okay or not? Like, you have the most important thing, the reason why I know your kid's going to be okay. You care and you're paying attention. Now you got to make sure not to care or pay attention so much that it ruins you or your relationship. Like Nick, I have this great advice that I can never give to the people in my family, so I'm going to give it to you and anybody who's listening who feels like you, it's going to feel so good, because it's not a thing I can say to my wife or anybody else, but you gotta Calm the down. Like, like, Oh my God, just one time without repercussions. I'd love to look at a couple of people in my life and go, you gotta Calm the down. And I know it's not as easy for some people. Like, do you have anxiety? Maybe
Nick 47:59
I do have. I think, I don't know what I mean. I guess children triggered the depression, anxiety, you know, need for meds, but I rare. I rarely ever take them. I keep them always with me, like in my little, like, key chain thing. But what they give you, what they give you, uh, you know what it's it took like, three, like, two or three doctors to, like, actually find one that was like, I don't want to take one every day, right? I want to take one where I need it right now, because I don't need it every day. I don't every day. I don't need
Scott Benner 48:23
it. Is it a thing you can take every once in a while, or just a thing that, if you don't take it every
Nick 48:26
day, it doesn't work? No. So this is great. I The doctor gave me so he goes, it's, uh, I forget the name of it, whatever I ended I could always message you, but it's, it's like, it's like, it works for eight hours and then, or six hours, and then it wears off. You don't need it. If
Scott Benner 48:38
you don't have propane, that's the top of my head. Propanal Law, prop what's it called? God damn it.
Nick 48:45
Uh, let me see. I can look at my I might have a picture of it on my phone, yeah, but I could. We'll figure
Scott Benner 48:49
it out. Task, yeah? Because I feel like I know what this is. It's okay.
Nick 48:55
Let's see. Uh, no, that's for his that's for vomiting, yeah, I was taking a picture of his medicines. And, like, it's stupid, it's ridiculous. You know, if I find it, I'll let you know, yeah, but it's like, literally, it's, it's, I don't need to take it every day, because that was always another thing. It's like, oh, take it every day for a month for it to start working. And I'm like, I don't want to take company every day. Like, that's why I don't do the the like, metform and I do that ozempic, because I'm gonna forget I'm busy. I can't, you know. So, like, even though it's epic, I forget for three days after, you know, but this is if I need it for this next, you know, couple hours this, I'll pop one in, take it. It works. Sometimes I'll get anxiety going home. Like, if I've had a rough couple days with him, I'll take it coming home, and then I'll get home and I'll be mellow with it. And I'll, you know, I just don't want to take it every day. If, like, I
Scott Benner 49:42
hear you, Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, none of these. Volume, no,
Nick 49:47
no, strong thing. So, yeah,
Scott Benner 49:52
so, but I'm not for, like, just taking pills to take pills. So, you know, if you don't need to take something, you don't need to take something. If you're kind. Constantly have that adrenaline going and that cortisol is up, and your fight or flight's always on. I mean, like you're grabbing the hospital bag for, like, a high blood sugar, like, I would think that anything that would help you find a lower, calmer, like, you know, place to be, generally speaking, maybe if you could get down to that spot, you could re learn how to react to things. I don't know. Maybe you'd stop again and just, you know, would come right back. I have no idea, but obviously that's, I mean, you're not unaware, but obviously that's the thing that's messing with you more than anything. Are you Irish? No, I'm Greek and Italian. You're Greek and Italian. Jeez, Greeks are supposed to be mellow. What happened? Yeah, I'm
Nick 50:40
telling you, I was. I used to mellow. I was fine.
Scott Benner 50:43
Everybody thought I was Greek, until they realized I wasn't. You do look a little Greek? Yeah, when, uh, I used to say, because I'm adopted, uh, Greeks thought I was Italian. Italians thought it was Greek. Everybody else thought I was Jewish. And then that's just how it would go, you
Nick 50:59
know, I get this. I get the same thing about me. People actually, Are you Jewish? I go, No, it's a bad thing. But
Scott Benner 51:03
Nick but last year, at Christmas, I don't know if I've told this on the podcast or not, I was in the city for a couple of days up in New York with Arden and my wife, and we were just, we just spent a couple of days in the city, and we were like seeing shows and wandering around and thrifting, and obviously we were doing stuff hard and wanted to do and the Orthodox community was out in like force giving out menorahs to people on the on the street. Maybe I forget what they were doing exactly. I can't remember exactly what it was, but if I didn't get approached a half a dozen times, swear to God like you were walking down the street, and every four blocks, somebody was like, shalom. And I'm like, oh, here, okay. Are you Jewish? And I'm like, I'm not. And then they get that look on their face, they're like, Oh, I'm sorry. I could have sworn and I was like, no, no, it's okay. Every it must happen. So I swear to God, it started becoming a joke. Like, big we were walking down the street, you see, like, a group, you know, they were just out, like, doing nice works Kelly or Arden would be like, Hey, you're gonna get enough. Like, and I would turn it down very graciously afterwards. But it was, it was hilarious. Nevertheless, I don't know, man, like I feel for you. Obviously I don't have the answers. I make a podcast, not the right one to ask, but I just wanted you to be thinking about the things that I've heard from people over and over again, and that I've experienced personally. So hopefully you can, you know, make some inroads with it. Because it sounds to me like you guys are doing really well diabetes wise. Yeah,
Nick 52:31
yeah, we're, I mean, we're definitely, I mean, um, I would like, because a 1c even better. But the thing is, I have to trust the insulin more to get it better. And I have to, you know. But I just, I'm okay. Where, if he stays at 121 30 all day, I'd be happy in a way, you know, but, like, until I wasn't. But, you know, I he's stuck it. Sometimes you get stuck at 141 50, and I'm like, what the is going on? Like, you know? So it's, I'm hard to please, I guess I'm just, my thought is, I need to be perfect for him. I need to extend whatever I can, you know, on his body for for as long as I can for him, until he takes over and disappoints me or makes me, you know, happy. So
Scott Benner 53:12
like Man, if I was you, I'd readjust your targets in your mind for happiness. I think then you'd be able to relax a little and then put effort, like more targeted effort, into doing what you wanted long term, like you got to realize. And I'm not saying this was right, but you know, when my kid was four, doctors were telling me it was okay if their blood sugar, her blood sugar, went up over 300 as long as it came back down again. And that was every day, every meal, because I didn't know you're making me shake stop saying stuff like that.
Nick 53:43
But I figured out the the medicine. It's abuse. Barone bus Barone, it's spelled. It's used to treat anxiety disorders in or in short term treatments for symptoms of anxiety, b, u, s, p, i, r, O, N, E, it's a short term acting anxiety pill, brand name, juice bar,
Scott Benner 54:03
yeah, baby, yeah. So that that, does it work for you?
Nick 54:07
Yeah, I feel like it does. I mean, I might need to pop him right now. Like, right now, he's dropped in like, 25 and, like, the last two updates. So, like, I'm like, my wife is just doing
Scott Benner 54:16
well. What's his blood sugar right now? 103, and he's dropped 25 points in the last listen to 120 you're looking at his blood sugar while we're talking, and your wife's with him.
Nick 54:28
Yeah. So I have trust issues, not like, anything outside of like that. Like, I don't trust my just, like, don't trust my wife for, like, what our marriage and stuff like that, it's I don't, you know, I just his life. Nick,
Scott Benner 54:38
can I give the advice again? No, I can't. You got to Calm the down, man.
Nick 54:43
I know she's got, I know she's got it. She's got, like, you know, we were always got, like, fruit clean and like, bottles of juice ready and so, oh
Scott Benner 54:50
Nick, oh no, you're breaking my heart. Now, I
Nick 54:53
know it's like, I'm terrible. I'm a terrible person. No, you're not a terrible person. You're worried now, just fishing for compliments.
Scott Benner 55:01
You're a handsome boy, Nick, don't worry about
Nick 55:04
cutest in high school. Did you really? Yeah, but it had to be a joke. We also voted the guy with bad like baggy eyes as, like, best eyes to themselves.
Scott Benner 55:15
I wish everybody could live in New Jersey for a little while.
Nick 55:18
Yeah. So you know the drone, the drone thing, actually, I'm 10 minutes away from piccati, where it all started. Yeah, yeah. So, like, I was, when you said that, I was like, Oh God, these drones. How stupid. Like, I guess a big joke. Now, when I'm at work, I'm like, Oh no, look, there's a drone. It's just like an airplane.
Scott Benner 55:32
I'm sure somebody saw something. I'm sure then it got on the news, and people were like, I have a drone. I'll fly it and screw with people. And then, you know, and then that happened, and then people started taking old videos of other stuff and saying, oh my god, I'm seeing them here. Like, before you knew it, there was this video going around where people are, like, there's eight lights in the sky, and they disappeared in the ocean. And finally, someone came along and said, that is the end of a Christmas display I saw three years ago. So people are just like, using video to, like, you know, pump up their social media. They're looking for clicks at some
Nick 56:03
point, yeah? Like, I mean, I left my house the weekend, the week it started, I went up to target, and I was like, I did see a, you know, regular drone that, you know, like you buy at the store. Like, I'm like, oh, so there was one. I'm like, This is what people are seeing, is driving down the like, it was going along the river, yeah. I'm like, you know, that's the only drone I saw. Like, you know, I you could, you know, it's like, so I don't know where all these videos are coming from.
Scott Benner 56:24
Listen, I have a little hobby drone. And, yeah, first of all, they're awesome, and they go way farther than you would think they would. And Arden, you know, the one day, I shouldn't, I don't know if I should tell this, but, but like, you know, the one day, she's like, seriously, like, are we gonna be okay? And I'm like, Arden, everything's gonna be fine. And her friend went out for a walk, and as soon as they left the house, I went, got the drone, put it up in the air, found them on their walk, hovered over top of them, and I just followed them very slowly for a while, and then I think they figured it out pretty quickly, but and then I took a photo of them, because you can take pictures with it. I took a photo of them, and later I sent it to her, but I was like, see this? They are following you. And she's like,
Nick 57:06
they know what you're doing, projecting your blood sugar. They
Scott Benner 57:08
know what you're doing. You're walking, trying to find healthy, uh, activities. Do you walk to you? What do you do to relax? Man,
Nick 57:16
analyze blood sugar.
Scott Benner 57:18
You don't like you watch go for a walk. You
Nick 57:21
I watch whatever he watches. I don't really do anything as far as fun and Nick
Scott Benner 57:26
I used to do before you made these kids. No, I
Nick 57:30
mean, I wasn't like the most fun person. I mean, I'm I'm funny, but I'm not like the most fun like, I didn't like, go, like, shooting, or, you know, fishing, or anything like that. Like, so it's I was never like, I never really had
Scott Benner 57:40
hobbies. Like, yeah, but you got to do something. I'm a loser
Nick 57:43
that likes to watch wrestling, you know. Like, that's about it. When's the last time you and your wife went out? We went out. So my mom came over last night. We ran and got sushi real quick. But that's about, you know,
Scott Benner 57:53
what were you out there the whole time going? We got to get back because of diabetes. No.
Nick 57:58
So she had the, she actually had the Dexcom up on her phone. I just kept, like, kept checking in. She said, Stop. It's fine. It's like, 123 I'm like, I know, but it's it was open. So I kept looking. But like, she was gonna, you gotta figure out a way to stop watching the numbers. And I go, Yeah, but like, it's there. So I'm gonna look like I have my watch. My watch alerts really goes under 100 and over 200 but my phone goes off and he's one 100 or 95, and 8180, so, like, it's always, like, there, but like, you know, it's stupid. Like, I'm like, ridiculous. Like, I have the sugar pixels, which are the greatest thing. And like, you should give me a free one, because I bought nine of them. So use my link by any chance. I did the way I found it. So
Scott Benner 58:42
this nickel. When you buy one of those
Nick 58:45
good you're making. You got a whole dollar. I got one in my son's room. I got one of my other son's room. I got two in my bedroom, one of my wife's side, one on my side in the
Scott Benner 58:54
kitchen. You guys are sleeping or No, is the house like gonna glow? So
Nick 58:58
the only one, yeah, it is. It's, I actually use one in that my youngest son's room as a night light, because I put it in full brightness so but like,
Scott Benner 59:06
wait a guy, you have a sugar pixel in your youngest son's room for your older son?
Nick 59:12
Yes, because I want to know when I'm rocking him to sleep what His number is, because I'm insane.
Scott Benner 59:16
Oh yeah, no, hey, I'm gonna agree with you. I've been arguing with you for 45 minutes, but you're insane. It's okay.
Nick 59:24
Don't know. I live by that number. I don't know how to stop it, but you told me to stop worrying. I don't
Scott Benner 59:28
think you're the only person who finds this. For every person I've met who's like, Oh my God, these, these CGMS are awesome. I've met a person who said, you know, it really dug into my anxiety, and it's like, the worst thing in the world for me, the thing I can tell you, and I don't know the pathway to this, but I believe that if you allow yourself, that you won't feel like this forever. But you have to let yourself, you're holding yourself in this place right now. Does that make sense? Yes,
Nick 59:55
because my even my dentist, like, said, like, you carry this with you too much. Like. And that's my dentist, so I see twice a year, like,
Scott Benner 1:00:03
do you grind your teeth? No, no, she
Nick 1:00:05
because she's like, because it's funny. Like, it's not funny. But, like, I'm telling you, whenever I leave the house, like, there's something that goes like, like, for like, not for like, work, it's like, but for like, if I I remember when I went to, like, I had a science mix, I went to the N T and, like, now next thing you know, like, I leave and like, my son's sugars drop. And he's like, going down like crazy fast. And I'm like, he's in the 70s and like, which is like, Yeah, I know it's not good, but for me, that's not good either, and it's not bad, but it's not good for me there. But so she I start just like, I was so mentally drained, I just started crying at the antis. And she's like, are you okay? I'm like, Yeah, my son sugar is dropping. I was like, like, and then, like, whenever I leave that, I go to the dentist. Next thing you know, I'm getting cleaning. And now my watch is vibrating, my phone's going off like, it's like, and I'm talking about diabetes, or my dentist. Now, through the splashing of my eyes, I just, it just follows me. It won't leave me. Could your wife take this from you for a week? I wouldn't let her. That's the problem. We can't
Scott Benner 1:00:58
say there's a problem and then not be willing to try an answer, though, you got a letter, you know. I mean, just tell her for a week. Like, try to disconnect me from this for a week to see what happens. Yeah, like, so or you gotta find a thing. Nick, like, you need a thing to do.
Nick 1:01:12
Yeah, you're right. I But thing is, I'm my family, that while it drives me crazy, is the one thing that makes me happy. Like, it's like, it's like, I want to spend as much time with
Scott Benner 1:01:21
them as possible. I appreciate that. I think you're a good guy, but like, I'm going to be harsh for a second. Like, the thing you're trying to do to help them is going to hurt them. Like, your wife's going to get sick of this. Your son's going to get sick of it as he gets older, and you're going to be sick in general from the worry your good intentions are going to lead to bad things. He's going to have great blood sugars, and everybody's gonna hate each other, and you're gonna be dead.
Nick 1:01:42
Like, I'm saying you're okay with messages getting across somebody, you know, I'm hoping the person get across to somebody and me eventually. But like, I hear you, but like, I just, I'm just obsessed with, like, that easy I cannot break my focus on on his health. I don't know why. I just, I tried
Scott Benner 1:02:00
the rubber band on the wrist thing. I know a version. Like, every time you think about the diabetes, snap the rubber band on your wrist, or something like, like that. I've seen old ladies stop smoking that way. Yeah, I don't know if that worked. It was the 70s, but it worked. Did we just have someone come in the
Nick 1:02:17
room? No, that was just me doing an old lady. Oh, that was you being an old lady.
Scott Benner 1:02:22
Nick, Listen, I'm not a very exciting person. Outside of that, I make a lot of podcasts. But I mean, for Christmas, for example, like, in about 10 days, Arden's taking me to a glass blowing place, and we're gonna, like, we're gonna sit for 90 minutes while they show us how to make a bowl, and then we're gonna make our own right, like, so I know you have little kids and you can't do the same things with them, but like, something like that that you should, it's only, you know, I think it's three hours, right? But like, you go somewhere and you just can't focus on anything else. You're gonna focus on that. Like, that's a thing. Think I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but for the last three years, for Christmas, I've, I've never, I don't know if this is a thing people would like find weird or not, I guess, depends where you live or who you are, but I've never held a gun in my life, and I said I would just like to go, like to get a gun safety training, and like, shoot a firearm. Like, I don't want to keep one. I don't want to own one. I just want to do it one time, just to do it. So my son got me that for Christmas. He and I are gonna go together and do this, like, half day thing together while I'm there. I'm never gonna think about Arden's diabetes. You know, she's older, it doesn't need to be said. But, like, if she was younger, I'd say to my wife, look, I'm gonna go do this thing. I can't be in charge of this. You're gonna have to do it. And that would be the end. Like, you don't need, like, and then you don't think about it again, because your wife's going to handle it. Like, right now. Like, she's not ignoring the fact that your kid's blood sugar went
Nick 1:03:50
down. No, she caught it. She it's already leveled off at 104, it's not like, a problem. It wasn't
Scott Benner 1:03:53
just a problem. It was awesome, is what you're telling me. Yeah, she does
Nick 1:03:57
a really good job. Like, you know, like, occasionally she'll get, like, an overreaction, but like, I'm guilty of that too. So like, she's, she does a great job. I mean, honestly, she's 7060, 70% of the time, the one that's handling the blood sugar. Because I'm, I work a lot like so that's another thing, is that I'm so far away sometimes, sometimes I'm an hour away to get even to my work and then to drive home, and, like, in an emergency, but like, at that point it's already handled. But like, my brain is like, I'm so far from my family I can't help like, I feel helpless. That's a lot of times where I'm at tube. Mental is like, I'm I'm up in West Milford. To get to my work is 45 minutes or an hour. Then to drive home is our half hour. I'm like, what the like. Just hope nothing happens today. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:04:43
not listen, man, I hear you. Do you have any auto immune issues? Auto
Nick 1:04:47
immune? No, I been fairly healthy my whole life. I mean, my wife, too, she doesn't have anything. Knock on wood. I don't want to say it's all been Logan, but it's he's been the introduction to a lot of these. Kind of product. No one in my family has had, knock on wood, cancers, anything like that. So I haven't been around these chronic, long term things ever, for you people being sick too, right? Yeah, I'm not used to that. I'm not used to like, someone needing constant attention, or, you know, checkups, or, you know, every couple weeks or months going somewhere, yeah? So it's, it's, it's new. I mean, I'm, I guess my family's fortunate, and here's the pity, not me, you know, so Nick,
Scott Benner 1:05:28
if you want to feel fortunate for a second, just remember that, you know, 100 or so years ago, your son would be dead. Now, I know, right? And he's not. He's gonna grow up and live a perfectly normal, happy life. Yes, this very likely won't even shortness life because of this great technology that we have now, the understanding of how the insulin works better, new insulins that'll come, new technology that you can't even imagine that's coming. Still, it's a different world now for diabetes, there isn't a lot to be worried about right here. No, it just sucks. I mean, it sucks, and you didn't want it and everything. But I was online the other day. I don't go on my personal like social media very often it says I don't have time. I realized that this woman I know who lost an adult daughter a few years ago, just five kids, and she's an older woman, she lost an adult daughter to a cancer a handful of years ago, and then one of her other adult daughters died unexpectedly last week. I don't know, man, like, there's a lot of bad things that can happen. There's not a lot of bad things that happen that you can control with insulin. You know what I mean? Like, there's of all the bad things that could happen. This isn't the worst. Like, I hope it brings you some comfort to know that there are times when I'm speaking to people, overwhelmingly, who have more than one medical issue, and I'll give them the like, Sophie's Choice. I'll be like, Hey, if you could get rid of this, or diabetes, this or diabetes, whatever, they so infrequently pick diabetes. Like, if they have more than one medical issue, they almost always wish away something other than the diabetes. And they'll say things like, Oh, the diabetes is manageable. I know how to do that. Those are the kind of like, almost like, flipping answers like adults with serious perspective about illness will have over and over again. They're like, well, if I'm gonna keep one of these, I'll keep the diabetes. Like, so, yeah, you know, I mean, you're in Jersey. I don't know if you're like, more of a New York fan or not, but you know, the GM of the Phillies has been on the podcast a couple of times. He played nine years in the MLB with type one diabetes, and you know, he's the GM of the Phillies now. And when I asked him one time if he ever thought about not having kids because he had type one. He didn't even understand the question. Like, he didn't even, like, go, oh, because they'd get it too. And then when I led him to the question, he goes, No. He's like, I know how to take care of it. They'd be fine. Yeah, just nothing. Like, it was a nothing to him. I don't know, man, like, I don't know how to get you there, but there's a place for you where you don't feel like this, and I hope you can find a path to it. I don't, I don't exactly know what it is, but I'd start by listening to your wife. She's probably smarter than you, and she definitely is.
Nick 1:08:07
She says that all the times, like, you don't even understand this is not that there's people that have kids that are in wheelchairs or that can't, you know, could that have cancer or that, you know, there's way worse things that could be.
Scott Benner 1:08:17
Yeah, I'm not big into like, you know, holding up people's illnesses against each other, but I'm just saying like, you know it could, and I'm not usually a person who says this, because I don't minimize what's happening to you or your son, but it really could be worse. Yeah, and forget that. At least, this is something you can it's manageable. Imagine if you your insurance wouldn't cover the Dexcom. It's funny,
Nick 1:08:38
because they just sent a letter saying that they might not be covering but it might have been a mistake. A mistake. So, like, you know, but like, I can't imagine what that was like. That was like, another like, meltdown, like, for my emotions a couple weeks ago when I got that, like, I'm, like, Yeah, well, that's, I could not imagine paying $3,000 a month for Dexcom, or whatever the number is, but it's insane. I'm I don't
Scott Benner 1:08:57
think it would be that much, but it would be a lot. And also, like, it's like you said, it's not going to happen, and still, if it happened, you could pivot, man. You know, there's things you could do. You could go on Medicaid. Nothing that's going to happen to your kid isn't in some way addressable, like I said, unless the worst thing happens. But then, now you can't stop that anyway. You know, I'm saying like, like, the drones, if the drones are gonna come then start shooting missiles at all of us, or whatever the whole people thought was gonna happen, that's not a thing you're gonna you're in control of, you know. I mean, like, Do you worry about being attacked by a bear? Nah, no, but you live, there's a lot of bears. Where you
Nick 1:09:36
are. Yeah, there are, yeah. I mean, there, not by me exactly, no,
Scott Benner 1:09:40
but in Jersey, like you could walk into a park in a barrack, it's not you've never once thought about it in your life,
Nick 1:09:45
didn't you? Remember, I don't do anything. I stay home all day. What do you
Scott Benner 1:09:48
do for a living? Like you don't have to tell me exactly, but are you I
Nick 1:09:52
work with a gas company. I work on gas lines so and I'll work everything me.
Scott Benner 1:09:55
Nick, yeah, so you work on stuff that blows up. Ah,
Nick 1:09:59
don't. Do you got you're doing the whole news thing, that stuff doesn't happen. You know when that happens when people, like, fiddle with something inside their house and they're not supposed to? That's when houses blow up. People should not be scared of okay,
Scott Benner 1:10:09
well, then take your advice about the gas and apply it to the diabetes. Yeah.
Nick 1:10:14
I mean, listen, I'm you're like, uh, like, a higher power to me and a lot of people, I'm sure, like, you have so much information you share and bring people together. Like, I'm hoping this stuff sticks like, I've heard it for the last three years on the podcast. Like, and things you said stuck, like, very, you know, good with me, but like, I just, I just need to, like, you said, Calm the
Scott Benner 1:10:37
down, yeah. Well, Nick, we're gonna leave it there, because I'm gonna, right now, go find my wife and tell her I'm a higher power and see what I can accomplish. I don't even think it's gonna get me lunch, but I'm gonna give it a shot. I'll buy you lunch one day. You don't need to do that. You also don't need to say what you just said. That was insane and kind but I swear to you, I'm just making a podcast like that. Yes, like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I've been thinking a lot about the podcast lately, just because it's the end of the year and I had time off, and it's a lot of work to make this show, and a lot of time and a lot of effort and, like, thought and consideration everything. So I kind of took off for Christmas, like, you know, for like, a week or so, you know, I did a very good job. I'll tell you what Nick I followed my own advice. I stopped making the podcast, and a day into it, I started thinking about the podcast, not making it, but how to make it bigger, or how to make it more popular, or do all the things that needs to be done. And I stopped myself. I was like, Do not think about this right now. And there were like thoughts in the back of my head, like, I'm a very competitive person, like, so I think if I'm not moving forward. I've lost, like, that's how I feel about like, professionally, like, when I do not just this. I've done other things professionally, too. So taking a couple of days off was hard for me, but I stopped myself, and I just let go of it. I just let go of it. And I was like, I am not going to think about this podcast for the rest of the year is basically how I put it. I have two advertisers who I haven't heard back from. Like, I'm nervous about that. I probably should have been sending emails, but I was just like, whatever. As soon as I wasn't looking I started getting nervous about downloads. Then December did way better than it usually does in December. So like me worrying about it wouldn't have done anything like it, just it would have worked out the way it was going to work out one way or the other. You're just not in control, as well as as much as you think you are. And I think that the illusion of control is what you're actually chasing, because everything is fairly random, you know, like, I don't think anything bad is going to happen to your son or my daughter, but if it does, like, you have to try to put yourself in my shoes for a second. I've been making a podcast about type one diabetes now for 10 years. What if my daughter dies? What if she has, like, a horrible low blood sugar incident and she she dies, then I'm the guy you just said to me, whatever you just said to me that was ridiculous. Like, I'm a higher power about diabetes. Like, can you imagine? Like, so if I walked around with that pressure all the time. I wouldn't be able to do this because I'd be too worried that, like, what if this unthinkable thing that is very likely not gonna happen happens? I'd be too worried about it to make the show, and then you wouldn't learn what you've learned about, and everybody listening wouldn't have learned what they've learned about. Like, I would stop myself with the fear if I let an irrational fear get in my way, and even, and I've had to have that thought, right? Like, I've had to have that thought, like, you're out there talking to people about diabetes, what if something bad happens? Arden had a seizure, and mostly people are very kind about it. But there are a handful of people on the internet who will run around and talk about it, like, don't listen to that guy. His daughter had a seizure. Well, yeah. And I hope that never happens to you or your kid, but it might, and it didn't happen to her because we're unsafe or, you know, didn't understand what we were doing. It was the randomness of diabetes, and when it happened, we did the things we knew to do, and we fixed it, and that was it. That's what diabetes is. Diabetes is to me, being aware of what can happen, being ready to deal with it if it happens, but never thinking about it unless it happens, like the scary parts. To me, that's how I deal with the scary parts. I know what to do. I have stuff that I can do it with if it happens, I will handle it, and otherwise I never think about it. And I know that's easier said than done, especially for people with anxiety, because I hear from people all the time where, like Scott, you're just lucky, you're not anxious. I get that, I really do, but that's the path to that. Be ready, be aware, never think about it, till it happens. I don't know. I think you're doing great with the management stuff. I don't imagine you guys are going to have a problem, but if you do, it sounds like you know what to do,
Nick 1:14:45
yeah? I hope. I hope so too. I hope that it just keeps going pretty smooth,
Scott Benner 1:14:50
yeah, but Nick, it's going to be bumpy at some point, but the bump is going to happen twice a year, not 365, days a year, and you can't be jacked up. Been ready for it to go to hell every five seconds because you're gonna pop you have a heart attack, you know what? I mean? Yeah, you just lost 70 pounds, dude. That's awesome. Like, keep going with that, you know? Like, focus on something good. Yeah. Have you ever celebrated the weight loss, even just in your own head?
Nick 1:15:17
No, no. It's like, I'm not big on the cell, you know, it just, it is what it is, you know, it's funny, because about me, it's like, it is what it is. It's, you know, it's fine. Who cares? Like, uh oh, 10 years this coffee. Who cares, you know, it's like, but for, you know, like, again, I'm just really focused on one individual. And, you know, pretty much it, which is a very bad habit, I'd
Scott Benner 1:15:40
celebrate more wins if I was you. Seriously. And diabetes related to, like, you get a Bolus, right? Take a second to be, like, if that went all right. Like, awesome. Like, instead of just discussing it with yourself when it's bad, when it goes good, go, Yeah, I got that one, you know, there we go. Like, you know, I mean, like, you know, when you're watching a football game, and like, you know, they run the ball and, like, they go two yards, and everybody watching at home is like, Oh, come on. But they're really excited. They're like, hey, we pushed the ball ahead two yards. Like they have a different perspective than you do. Yeah, you got to give yourself that perspective. Like, hey, it was just two yards, but that's a win. We're moving forward. We're doing it right? Maybe we're gonna punt here. But you know what I mean, we learned something from this. We're gonna keep moving forward, and then if it doesn't work out in that game, you expand it to the next game, and if it doesn't work out for 18 games, and you expand it the next year, you just have to kind of keep giving yourself the opportunity to learn and grow, instead of cutting yourself off at the knees every time something goes wrong. Because the truth is, is, like, something's not going wrong that often.
Nick 1:16:44
No, yeah, you're definitely a half glass full, and I'm a half glass empty in this situation. Kind of well
Scott Benner 1:16:51
in this situation. But generally speaking, Nick I'm not like, I'm a no person. You ask me about something we should do, and I say, No, should we go on vacation? No, it's too expensive. Should we do this? No, we can't do that. No, no. Like, I start with no, but I don't stop it. No, I work backwards from No. And that's the thing my wife pointed out to me that I have, generally speaking, stopped doing because she said it was heavy. You know what I mean? Like, you know, should we do this? No, but I wasn't really saying, No, I just my brain works that way. I start with what could go wrong, and I work backwards to how to make it go right. Okay, so you don't jump into stuff that's Well, that's a nice way of putting it, except it's a bummer for people who are around you, yeah, like, right. So now I try to start with yes, let's find reasons why this is a good idea, and if it's a bad idea, that's fine, but let's try to find reasons why it's good. I've been doing that the last couple of years, and generally speaking, I'm happier. And I got to go on vacation last year, and guess what? We didn't die. It was awesome, like we went on vacation and I still paid my electric bill. So yeah, got money. You got big money. I grew up really broke, so my fear is what held me back, like, I'm very afraid of being broke again. Like, very, very afraid of it, but, yeah, it's probably not going to happen. Like, I'm not going to be wealthy at any point, but like, I'm not gonna, like, I don't think I'm ever gonna be a hey, it's meatloaf on Thursday, and on Friday we're gonna have meatloaf sandwiches, and then on Friday night, we'll have leftover meatloaf. And then on Saturday, if it doesn't smell too bad, we'll eat the meatloaf again. I don't think that's gonna happen to me again, but at the same time, I don't know, man, like time's ticking. How old are you? 38 All right, I'm gonna tell you something. I am 53 I don't know how it happened. I genuinely, genuinely do not know it how it happened, and I am 100% sure the next time I look up, I'm going to be 60.
Nick 1:18:49
So, yeah, that's I look at people at work. I go, 25 man, 22 man, I wish I started the year when I was that young. And it's like, and I remember, I'm like, I'm 38 like, I'm, like, not even that old, but for what I in my field, it's a little bit old. Like, it's like, to be digging holes and stuff like that. That's, yeah, you know, I go look at these guys. I'm like, man, they don't know what they got at 22 and 23 like, good job.
Scott Benner 1:19:14
Yeah, well, listen, I'm just saying, like, don't waste time. Yeah, it goes fast. It goes it. I'm telling you, it sounds like when I I am now, one of those people, if you're pregnant and young and are looking for any kind of advice from me, it's the advice you get from me. Time goes faster than you think it does. That's the only advice I can give. Like, I would give anything for my kids to be younger. I would give anything for me to be younger, you know, like that feeling. That's like, you know, when I took my wife out on a date when I was like, 25 like that stuff, it's just all gone. You can be like, Oh, you can make it. You can't. Life changes in it, and it's fine, like, it's not bad now, it's just different. But there are moments you look back at and you're like, Oh, I wish I could be back in that happiness. I don't want you to look back as a person. Who's no longer angry or no longer, you know, running around crazy, anxious all the time, and think, oh my god, I wasted that time, like I wasted that day being angry. I wasted that five minutes being upset. Because when you realize you can't get it back, it's, it's a bad feeling. So
Nick 1:20:16
here, here's a question for you, Are you, uh, it's a totally off. But are, are you afraid of death or just, or just getting older and going, what did I miss? Or, like, Where'd it go?
Scott Benner 1:20:25
Well, I've thought about this fairly extensively. Academically, I am not afraid to die, as long as I die at an older age, right? Like, and fear of death is, is silly, like, if, I mean, if my house collapses right now and I die, I won't even know like so that's not my concern. My concern is about I want more of this, so I want to stay in the game as long as I can, to have as many of these experiences as possible. But I'm also not religious. I do believe that when I die, I shut off and I'm done. And I have also had people in my life die, and I know that as sad as it is and as horrible as it is, after time passes, after a while, it really doesn't hurt anymore, and so you do disappear eventually, you know what I mean? Like if I died now, my possible grandchildren won't know me. That's upsetting, but it won't matter to them. Yeah, but when you stop and think about all the things Ben Franklin did, for example, and no one thinks about it, that almost makes me mad, by the way. I realized it was a long time ago and we hadn't done a lot of things yet, but it was a guy who, like, innovated a ton of things that we still do today, but no one thinks about it that way in the confines of your own personal life, I don't know that. It's about legacy that's beyond how happy the people around you are. Meaning, I don't care if my son runs around for 20 years after I'm gone going my dad was awesome. I don't care if he does that or he doesn't. I care if his life is awesome, because I was awesome. Like, that's what I'm worried about. Like, I'm worried about him having an enjoyable, happy, healthy life, and being able to pass those ideas on to possible children or people around him, so that that spreads in the world. Like, that's what I feel like my job is. It's why I'm so upset that you're angry, because I know you're going to spread that anger over your kids, and it won't be on purpose. I don't know that the happiness I'm trying to put on my kids is on purpose. I'm just trying to be the best person I can be look out for everybody. I have that feeling you have about being a good dad and taking care of people and all that stuff. I have that a lot more than probably is healthy, but at the same time, like, if you can't do it while you're screaming off this fcking sucks. Everything's terrible.
Nick 1:22:43
That was like, spot on impression right there of you. Like, when my wife hears this, she's gonna be like, Oh my God, how do you know what you say? Because
Scott Benner 1:22:50
I've said it before too, because I've seen a blood sugar and been like, I've been that person, man, I'm talking to you as you like, I've been that person. I've seen that blood sugar and thank God I screwed up, or this is going to kill her, or whatever. Except what I didn't know, but I know now to tell you, is that with more time and more experience, those things don't happen as frequently. And once I really see what's happening, I know like I didn't make a mistake here, like this is just what happened. This was always going to happen. There was no getting around this one like Arden had a low this morning, like she was like 70, but she was sleeping, and it needed some juice because it was going to keep going. It was unavoidable, because at two o'clock in the morning, her blood sugar, for reasons I can't figure out, jumped up significantly. So it jumped up. I knocked it back down again because she was sleeping. When I did it, I thought she's going to be lower than I want her to be, like, four or five hours from now, and she was and I was asleep, because I was up in the middle of the night for two hours with the high blood sugar. And you know what happened? My wife got up and gave her the juice, or she would have done it, or something would have happened, but I didn't stay up for 24 hours and make myself a zombie over it, like, that's just not doable. So back to your question, I don't want to die. I'd like to be here for as long as I can walk around, take a without shitting on myself and think, like, those are the things I'm concerned with, right? Like, I'd like to be mobile. I don't want to be incapacitated, and I want to be able to have my thoughts. Like, if I can do that, I want to stay here as long as I can. But if five minutes from now I walked my head on something, and I wasn't coming back, and you gave me a button, I'd leave like, because I wouldn't want that for my my family, like, I wouldn't want them to sit and watch me deteriorate if I if they didn't have to. Like, it's not about being afraid of death. It's about being afraid of not living.
Nick 1:24:51
If that makes sense, yeah, I feel, yeah. I've been known to walk around here and say, Jesus just kill me at when things are going bad. Right? But like, that's like, the total opposite of what I want. Like, I really would want to be here as long as I can, and to see my family keep, you know, going as long as I can. And, you know, see, my children have the children, their children, you know, it's just, it's the stress is, just, for me, is immense. It's like, just, no, I It's hard to it's hard to get through it. But I
Scott Benner 1:25:22
am not unfeeling to what you just said, like, and I'd have to tell you five years ago, I'd be like, Man, I'd say, Calm the down. I'd mean it like I was kidding before. I've now spoken to enough people with stress and anxiety issues, I'm 100,000,000% behind you. I understand how difficult this is for you and but that's why I would do whatever I could to mitigate it, because if it's a lifelong thing that you're going to deal with, then just trying to power through it, hoping it's going to go away is not the answer, either, because you're not going to power through it, it is going to give you, like, a heart attack or a stroke, or, you know, you're going to gain a bunch of weight again, or, you know, something bad is going to come from all that anxiety. So if you got to mitigate it with a medication, I think I would, if I was you like, I know you don't want to, but, like, just imagine that, you know, six months from now, you don't feel like this, not just once, but for like, a week, and then a month and then, you know, I mean, that would be freaking crazy. That'd be awesome. I don't know. I don't know the answer. Again, not a doctor. This is not advice barely got through high school. My wife thinks I'm an idiot. You probably shouldn't listen to me, but it's just how it occurs to me, we did good here. Nick, you're gonna be alright. I'm gonna worry about you for the rest of the day. I just want you to know, oh, just the rest of the day. Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm busy, but I wish you a ton of luck. Tell your wife thank you that it was really lovely to speak to you, and I think she's super lucky to get to spend time
Nick 1:26:57
with you. Hopefully, yeah, I'm gonna go upstairs and give them a big hug. Awesome. So thank you. I mean, like I said, I appreciate all that you've done for the community. It's you don't give yourself enough. I mean, you just made a collection of information for people for a lifetime beyond you to use. So it'll hopefully live on forever, or at least until it's cured. I hope
Scott Benner 1:27:21
so too. That was very nice of you to say, but I was thinking of something for you. I did an episode with Erica, episode 913, it's called the 54321, method. Yeah, I pulled it up. Okay, it's grounding techniques. See if that's helpful to
Nick 1:27:38
you. 517, that's that's my wedding anniversary. Is it
Scott Benner 1:27:42
really? Listen to that one, and it's a episode, 913, the 54321, method, and try to put it into practice when you're having like stress or anxiety. I think that a lot of these things work for people, and people are just too embarrassed, or they think it's stupid, so they don't do stuff like this. So basically it's this, you acknowledge five things, you can see four things you can touch, three things, you can hear, two things you can smell, one thing you can taste. And by the time you put your brain through that process, which does not take long at all, it'll kind of help you reset. But listen to it. Erica does a much better job of explaining it than I just
Nick 1:28:19
did. Yeah, all right, I'll definitely check. I mean, I I'm like, I'm in and out with the podcast. Honestly, it's, there's so much. I mean, I definitely in the first, probably the first year I listened to so much that I think I burnt myself out mentally with diabetes. I hear you. You'll be back. Yeah, no, I come and go. Believe me, I still appreciate, I still look for certain keywords when I'm looking for something, and I'll listen, you know, the Pro Series, if you add something, yeah, I think in a way, it gave me a little little depression, but also kept me informed. So it was, like, kind of the balancing I need to, like, start doing there, because I gained so much information from you guys that, like, you know, I still come and go, but like, it's, it's a lot. It's a lot to keep harp like, he's, like, you know, you notice what I'm saying is, I understand. I'm constantly thinking about it non stop. To add, you know, six more hours a week to it's a
Scott Benner 1:29:13
lot. Yeah, no, I completely understand, and it's there for you if you need it. And but 913, is not about diabetes. It's about kind of centering yourself and getting your mind off the things that are bothering you. So check it out. It really could be
Nick 1:29:26
valuable. Thank you. I really do appreciate your time with me today.
Scott Benner 1:29:30
No, I appreciate you telling your story and chopping it up with me like this. I thought we had a good time. So this is great. Thank you so much. That's my pleasure. Happy New Year. Same to you. Thank you. Hold on one second.
I'd like to thank the ever since 365 for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and remind you that if you want the only sensor that gets inserted once a year and. And not every 14 days you want the ever since CGM, ever since cgm.com/juicebox, one year, one CGM. The podcast you just enjoyed was sponsored by tandem diabetes care. Learn more about tandems, newest automated insulin delivery system, tandem Moby with control iq plus technology at tandem diabetes.com/juice box. There are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast com, hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongway recording.com, you.
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