Scott Benner 3/7/24 Scott Benner 3/7/24

#1147 Rest My Case

Mellisa was diagnosed with type 1 two years ago at 44 years old.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1147 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show, I'll be speaking with Melissa she's 46 years old and she's had type one diabetes for two years. Today we're going to talk about all kinds of stuff on the pod five learning how to take care of yourself having to pay for your own C peptide test, and some personal tragedies. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org/juicebox. and complete the survey when you do this. You'll be helping with diabetes research, you'll be helping the podcast and you may be helping yourself T one D exchange.org/juicebox. The T one D exchange is looking for anyone who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, as long as they are a US resident. It is particularly hard to get data from males and males of color. So if you fall into that category, please do go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven made for all types of diabetes Dexcom G seven can be used to manage type one, type two, and gestational diabetes, you're going to see the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar right on your receiver or smartphone device. dexcom.com/juicebox This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that. Check them out at touched by type one.org.

Melissa 2:19
Hi, Scott. My name is Melissa. I am a type one diabetic. I just turned 46 I think we would refer to ourselves as ladder. So I was diagnosed when I was 44.

Scott Benner 2:30
So did your was your onset very slow.

Melissa 2:35
No, it was not.

Scott Benner 2:36
I don't know that you're a lot of like to me Lata is about the onset. The very like slow, methodical way that the pancreas just stops working very gently, but yours just kind of shut off.

Melissa 2:48
It seems to have given us two weeks notice pretty quick.

Scott Benner 2:52
I think you just have type one diabetes, then.

Melissa 2:54
That's what my endocrinologist, he just calls me type one.

Scott Benner 2:59
Yeah, I mean, honestly. So a lot of it is latent autoimmune diabetes in adults, right? That's correct. But the latent is the is the part that we want to hold on a second. I just don't want to talk wrong about it. And the last time Jenny made me say it out loud. I was pulling it so far out of my butt that I was like, I think I'm saying this right. Yeah, I that really is just about the very slow onset. I'm going to just say you have type one, and we're going to be done with it.

Melissa 3:28
Well go with type one.

Scott Benner 3:29
Why not? Any other type one in your family?

Melissa 3:32
I have no family history on mom or dad side. The only person that has diabetes is type two was my grandmother. She was diagnosed in her 60s and managed it with diet and exercise for 15 odd years.

Scott Benner 3:47
About that. How about other autoimmune stuff in your family? Not that I know of. Do you have anything else? Thyroid celiac stuff like that? Nope.

Melissa 3:56
No. Okay. Well, just the lucky type one, just

Scott Benner 4:00
just this little thing. Are you married? Do you have children?

Melissa 4:02
I am widowed. I have five children.

Scott Benner 4:05
Holy hell five.

Melissa 4:07
Yes, I do. I have five children. I haven't locked them in the basement right now. That's why it's so quiet.

Scott Benner 4:12
Melissa, I'm gonna say something we're gonna get off to a start where either you're gonna love me or not love me. But is that what killed your husband? Or?

Melissa 4:20
Well, it was me or it was the children or actually he did pass with cancer.

Scott Benner 4:24
Oh, I'm so sorry. That's terrible. Yeah, so then it wasn't you or the kids? Luckily, no, not an unreasonable question though. For 5g Even just the the effort to make the five children and keep them alive. Good. Well,

Melissa 4:36
I'm pretty sure he had a good time. Me. It was a little rough.

Scott Benner 4:41
Why was it rough for you?

Melissa 4:44
Five pregnancies doesn't number on your body. Maybe that's what caused day one.

Scott Benner 4:47
You think so?

Melissa 4:48
He just No, actually, I don't know. I wish we had a cause. Yeah.

Scott Benner 4:53
Wow. How long has he been gone?

Melissa 4:55
Five years.

Scott Benner 4:56
Oh, I'm so sorry. That's crazy. Well, you guys similarly aged Yes,

Melissa 5:00
he was one year older than me. Wow. How

Scott Benner 5:02
old are your kids?

Melissa 5:03
My oldest is 19. I have 1918 1614. And my little guy is 11. Wow. How

Scott Benner 5:10
about that? Do you ever consider sending their bloodwork in for trial that or anything like that to see if they have any markers for Taiwan?

Melissa 5:18
I have. I have not yet acted upon it. I am much more concerned about the cancer through their father's side,

Scott Benner 5:25
which tell me what kind of cancer it was. It was colon

Melissa 5:29
cancer. And so his colonoscopy at the time was it's not it wasn't indicated until 50. He was diagnosed at 37. They've now moved it to 45. So I just had my colonoscopy came back nice and clear. But he was diagnosed at 37 with stage four. Wow. Oh, geez. All at once. All at once. Was that our anniversary as well? I should add.

Scott Benner 5:50
Oh my god, what are you trying to make me crazy? She's Melissa. I'm gonna cry in a second. My mom just died of cancer like a month and a half ago.

Melissa 6:00
So sorry, that it's difficult. I'll give you a virtual tissue.

Scott Benner 6:04
Thank you. I appreciate it. Wow, he was so young. And he and he lived with it for a couple of

Melissa 6:11
years. Not hard. Yes, he passed. He actually lasted five years. He fought very hard, very valiantly.

Scott Benner 6:18
That's crazy. Do you get the feeling looking back? Was he doing it? Because he thought it was gonna work out or was he just trying to hang around for you guys? I think it was a little bit of both. Yeah. I mean, your youngest would have been like

Melissa 6:33
he was 12 months old. At diagnosis.

Scott Benner 6:36
Jesus. Yeah. You're gonna make me cry. Melissa. Okay. Wow, it does that kind of cancer run in your husband's side of the family?

Melissa 6:43
No, there was no family history on his mom or dad side. Oh, geez. Does He have brothers and sisters? He has one sister and one brother.

Scott Benner 6:51
Are they very careful now? Yes.

Melissa 6:55
I think we all are after that. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 6:57
would think so too. All right. I'm gonna try to shift this a second. Do my best here. What's the you're in a very unique situation. So do you think about dating ever?

Melissa 7:09
I'm currently in a relationship with my running shoes. And I have been for about 10 years. Well,

Scott Benner 7:15
let's say you sound like you set your voice you have such a lovely voice. The I don't know if you know that or not. And when you think you and you said that or like seriously, are you doing voiceover work on the side? What are you doing?

Melissa 7:25
I wish I'm just one of those pesky attorneys. You're

Scott Benner 7:29
an attorney. I am. No kidding. What kind of law do you practice?

Melissa 7:33
I do corporate law. And I also work for veterans. Disabled Veterans. Nice.

Scott Benner 7:39
Let's see. Five kids. No diabetes, yours is late. You didn't expect it? I guess my big question is is that after what happens to your family? It's only a few years later that you get type one. Is your first thought this isn't fair.

Melissa 7:58
Absolutely. Oh, 110%. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 8:01
feel like that's what I would think to. How long did it take you to process all of that Dexcom G seven offers an easier way to manage diabetes without finger sticks. It is a simple CGM system that delivers real time glucose numbers to your smartphone, your smartwatch. And it effortlessly allows you to see your glucose levels and where they're headed. My daughter is wearing a Dexcom g7 Right now, and I can't recommend it enough. Whether you have commercial insurance, Medicare coverage, or no CGM coverage at all Dexcom can help you go to my link dexcom.com/juice box and look for that button that says Get a free benefits check. That'll get you going with Dexcom. When you're there, check out the Dexcom clarity app where the follow Did you know that people can follow your Dexcom up to 10 people can follow you. Right now I'm following my daughter, but my wife is also following her. Her roommates at school are following her. So I guess Arden is being followed right now by five people who are concerned for her health and welfare. And you can do the same thing. School Nurses, your neighbor, people in your family. Everyone can have access to that information if you want them to have it. Or if you're an adult, and you don't want anyone to know, you don't have to share with anybody. It's completely up to you. dexcom.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. And when you use my link to learn about Dexcom you're supporting the podcast.

Melissa 9:32
Well, I was originally diagnosed as type two. So when I was 44, they had diagnosed me as type two kind of an interesting story. The insulin Gods nudged me a little bit. So I went on to Amazon Believe it or not, and I got a glucose meter. So I didn't have any symptoms that sort of classic symptoms going to the bathroom. You know very frequently I had actually gained a couple of pounds. So I just felt like something might have been off So I bought a meter, my blood sugar was 531. So I make a visit to the doctor. He asked me the list of questions, I say no to everyone and he said your meter is incorrect. Here is a prescription for a meter. And so I get that meter. And sure enough, was roughly the same.

Scott Benner 10:20
That I figured it out. It's the meter you bought

Melissa 10:24
an interest? I wish it were the meter. Unfortunately, it was not Was

Scott Benner 10:27
there some time after he, the doctor said that you thought, oh, I don't have diabetes. I just bought a junky meter.

Melissa 10:33
Absolutely. And I so wished that was the case. Oh,

Scott Benner 10:37
and then you find out that it's not the case? Do they start treating you like a type two? Initially, they

Melissa 10:42
did. My my agency was 11. I was put on Metformin and Jardiance, a combination pill called sin Gerety. So I took that daily, and he said, You can take it what a once weekly injection, and I thought, Oh, no way. I will never inject myself. That is the scariest thing on the planet. And, of course, here we are.

Scott Benner 11:02
Yeah, now you're doing it. Like it's like it's nothing like

Melissa 11:06
it's going out of style. Exactly.

Scott Benner 11:09
Okay. I just had a thought. I don't usually do this at night. By the way, I'm a little thrown off by this. Getting myself gathered, okay, so that the doctor sees you like any type to a mum. Okay. Did you have any big illnesses or viruses prior to your diagnosis?

Melissa 11:31
I didn't.

Scott Benner 11:33
So they say sometimes, that stressors can also be like kind of things. Like the my assumption would be that you've been living with markers for type one diabetes, most of your if not all of your life. And I'm wondering if the passing of your husband wasn't so stressful that it didn't put your body in a in a unique situation?

Melissa 11:56
It may have it very well may have i That's something that I have thought of.

Scott Benner 12:01
Me, there's no way to know. It's just right. Yeah. Interesting to wonder about. So okay, so you. So you have the quick onset? How long did they treat you like a type two, it was

Melissa 12:15
about four or so months, I bought every single book that I could get my hands on thinking if I work hard enough, I could put this into remission. So I read a bunch. I actually ordered my own C peptide and antibodies tests. And that revealed that I my C peptide was terribly low. And I tested positive for the GAD antibodies.

Scott Benner 12:37
You did that on your own?

Melissa 12:38
I did.

Scott Benner 12:39
Is that something that Dr. Fight you want it? Or was it pretty harmonious when you asked?

Melissa 12:45
It was a self test that you I purchased on my own? How much of it was a pretty penny? It was several $100 out of pocket. But I wanted to know, from all of the literature that I had read if I was indeed type one.

Scott Benner 13:00
Did you not think mom trying to figure out why did you not go to the doctor and ask for the that testing, like through your insurance?

Melissa 13:07
I had switched physicians at that point.

Scott Benner 13:12
You didn't like the last one did not like the last one. Does the cancer battle teach you not to put up with bad doctors?

Melissa 13:19
I think it teaches you to be a strong self advocate.

Scott Benner 13:24
Yeah, I agree. I often think that my mom stole a couple of years. And it's because I this is gonna sound strange. But it's because I have all this experience raising a child with diabetes, right? Because there was a moment where doctors told my mom like this is it like, you know, just get your affairs in order a couple of months. And, and it's gonna be over. And I was the one who was like, No, I we could figure this out. Like if we try hard enough. And we got a doctor to perform her surgery, which led to two more years. And but doc, but the doctor we were at and even the institution she was at was not interested in helping her. Right. And so, you know, I really believe in that strongly. Well, it'll serve you well moving forward, I think. I think so. I hope so. Yeah, absolutely. How are your kids?

Melissa 14:20
Oh, they're doing just fine. I've got two in college two in high school for this upcoming school year and one in middle school. Wow.

Scott Benner 14:26
Is it exhausting raising five children by yourself?

Melissa 14:29
Oh, being mom and dad has me very tired. Yes. And then I worked full time as well.

Scott Benner 14:34
What did you find? What did you find the slack that needed to be picked up? Like what did you look at and say this is an important thing my husband would have done? It needs to get done. I'm gonna have to jump into unfamiliar territory here and do this thing.

Melissa 14:53
Really showing up for myself? Because kind of like the airplane analogy you have to put on Your own mask first and then save the littles that is so incredibly important. And then ditch the mom guilt that is so strong and so important. So if I don't take proper care of myself, especially now as the only living parent, my kids will have no one. And that's not acceptable.

Scott Benner 15:17
How did you do that? How did you get rid of the guilt?

Melissa 15:20
I don't know that I've gotten rid of it entirely. But finding moments of gratitude daily is really important. And something that I cherish.

Scott Benner 15:28
It really is a situation where you're owed your feelings as well. As certainly, yeah, and I'm assuming you've, you know, made five children with a person you really cared for. So, and it's such a, I mean, you probably really started. I'm so sorry. I feel like I'm bumming you out. But like, worries. I mean, that really is just, I mean, it's still the beginning of your life. You know, 37 years old, honestly. Right. Yeah. Right. Wow. That's a lot of kids that 37 You've been like, do you guys start early or go fast?

Melissa 16:01
Started in law school.

Scott Benner 16:04
Really? Law school? Not hard enough for you?

Melissa 16:09
Yes, like she's my Christmas break, baby.

Scott Benner 16:13
We've got to do something to get rid of all this tension. Why don't we make more tension?

Melissa 16:20
Simply get out there. They're cute and squishy. So you know what's for more? How

Scott Benner 16:24
do you make it through law school with a baby? Like that's interesting.

Melissa 16:29
Just a day at a time, kind of like, like today?

Scott Benner 16:33
So you've kind of always operated this way. Yes, yes. Yeah. Did you have like family help with the baby and everything? Do you guys get mad? I have so many questions. Do you guys get married right away once you got pregnant and what did you do?

Melissa 16:45
We met in college. And so we got married a year and a half later. And then he went to law school, then I went to law school. Wow.

Scott Benner 16:55
That's really something hey, most Mormon.

Melissa 16:59
We're not Mormon and we're not Catholic. I do get those quite often. Yeah, no

Scott Benner 17:03
kidding. Well, they're obvious. Like you know, generalizations to make. I like how you answer everything like an attorney. Do you know that about yourself? Now I do your questions or like your answers or like you pause, you think your direct you don't say more than I asked, which is interesting.

Melissa 17:25
Like, we don't want to know how many listeners you have. So

Scott Benner 17:28
I just always think of attorneys as people were like, I don't say anything extra because extra stuff gets us in trouble. So we just keep it to what we're doing. Anyway. That's lovely. I on point, I'm also enamored by your voice, by the way, definitely think you could be a mom in a sitcom or something like that. Oh, thank you. Now you, um, you're like, thank you. I'm an attorney. I don't need to be in a sitcom.

Melissa 17:51
Might be a little more fun, a little less stressful. Actually, I love what I do. I've only wanted to be an attorney. So I'm, I'm grateful that I get to do that.

Scott Benner 17:58
Okay, good for you. That's excellent. You talked about having to be there for your kids. So I'm going to try to piece together a little timeline here. Your husband passes. Your your health is how at that point, I mean, your mental health is probably shaky. But how was your physical health?

Melissa 18:14
I was running a lot. So it was I was in pretty good shape. I still am, hopefully in decent shape. I saw Ron, I did a lot of rock climbing. I have yet to do outdoor rock climbing since being diagnosed. So mainly indoor rock climbing. So I've always been pretty athletic. And type line is definitely not slowing me down. If anything, it's helping me to get out there and sort of show the world that you can run a 50k or climb a mountain with type one.

Scott Benner 18:43
I don't know the metric system but 50k Sounds far.

Melissa 18:46
It's a little farther than a marathon. So it's it's not too terrible.

Scott Benner 18:50
So to you. I jogged up the stairs to do this with you. And I was like great. Now I'm out of breath. Wow, that's something so how do you? How are you managing right now? Are you on a pump? Do you use injections? What do you do?

Melissa 19:04
I am now on? Luckily I love it the Omnipod five and the Dexcom G six.

Scott Benner 19:10
Nice. What did you start with?

Melissa 19:12
I started on MDI with Joseba and human log.

Scott Benner 19:17
And what were your needs? Huh? What is the question I want to ask? I'm looking at your age. You're still so sorry. You're getting your period still is what I want to say. Right? So do you see fluctuations? Did you see fluctuations right away with hormones? Well,

Melissa 19:33
it's interesting. I I'm actually on an IUD. Once my husband was diagnosed with cancer, we put a stop to the baby making for obvious reasons. So I had an IUD. So the IUD that I have is the marina and the Marina means I don't get a period so I don't actually get the monthly cyclical changes. So I believe that I'm actually Peri menopausal at this point, just from some other types of symptoms, but I have not no Just my insulin needs varying within the weeks of a given month.

Scott Benner 20:04
Can you spell the name of the IUD? It's

Melissa 20:07
Marina and I Rena.

Scott Benner 20:11
Oh, okay, so you don't see the fluctuations? But what are the things you're seeing that make you think you might be perimenopausal is the

Melissa 20:18
temperature stuff? Temperature? Oh, the temperature? My wife

Scott Benner 20:22
takes something. Are you do you get the sweat ease? The sweats? Yes,

Melissa 20:26
I do. Wait, hold

Scott Benner 20:27
on. I'm gonna text somebody in another part of my house and get you the name of something that stopped it for my wife. Yes, please. What? This is, by the way. Sorry, Kelly. All right. I'll get the name back of that for you. Wow, look at us. Old. Oh, my gosh. All right. So your, how long on MDI before you move to Omnipod five.

Melissa 20:57
I was on MDI for about six months. It was grueling work, I maintained an A one C of 5.4. I counted my injections, because I really wanted to figure out what I ate, how it affected my body, my running my climbing, how that affected. So I kept meticulous records for about the first six months. So I was doing in order to keep that line from shooting up or going too low. I was doing on average, about 10 to 13 injections a day, I had the human log Jr. So I was able to Bolus in half unit increments. I have now a wonderful endocrinologist who writes me the best prescriptions ever. And after six months, I said I'm I think I'm ready to start pumping. And it was the best decision ever.

Scott Benner 21:43
Did you take to it all very quickly. It sounds like you figured diabetes out.

Melissa 21:49
I had done a lot of research. And in fact, when I was diagnosed as type one, I did a search. And it led me to one of your podcasts with a physician herself who was diagnosed as type one. She was loud as well. And that was such an encouraging, encouraging episode to know that I wasn't alone, because I didn't know anybody that was type line. I do have one friend in person to actually that are that I can receive support from that are here in real life. But that was I just recall, and I don't remember her name. But that was just the best episode ever. It gave me so much hope. Wow,

Scott Benner 22:27
that's really something I I have to tell you that. Even though I understand that that happens when somebody says it to me, it still takes me by surprise a little bit. It feels lovely that that, that that all worked out like that. But absolutely,

Melissa 22:41
it was just a godsend. I wish I could remember her name, or had some way to contact her just to say thank you.

Scott Benner 22:48
Yeah. Oh, well, let's just assume that I invited her on. So thank you. Me. It's enough. Do you want to figure out so this stuff is over the counter? It's called estrogen. e s t r o v e n? O yes.

Melissa 23:04
I've heard of that. I have yet to try it complete

Scott Benner 23:06
MultiSymptom menopause relief? My wife says that made her stop

Melissa 23:11
sweating. So I will try that out. No, tell her thank you. Oh,

Scott Benner 23:14
please, I will absolutely pass it on. She'd be thrilled if it helps somebody else. And by the way, if you so if you don't have you don't have any thyroid stuff. So you probably wouldn't have listened to the thyroid episodes. But the doctor that was on to discuss thyroid stuff. Dr. BENITO is the one who told my wife about estrogen. So okay, yeah. Good luck with that. I think it's just like, I think you're probably grabbing it at Amazon to be perfectly honest. Oh, beautiful. Perfect. Good luck. Let me know by the way, seriously, if you stopped sweating, send me an email. I definitely

Melissa 23:42
will stop sweating. I just hope you remember me and

Scott Benner 23:47
please don't give it any context. I just want to get an email like in three months it says I stopped sweating and see how long it takes me to go. What the hell is this about? Right? I really have the worst memory for things like this. I got a note today. Hold on. I wish I could get it up for you. So I'm now I'm using an editor for the podcast now. So like you and I will talk we'll do our whole thing. At the end of this episode after you and I are done. I'll leave myself like a voice note like listen I talked about this and that and blah blah blah and maybe think about naming the episode this like that's pretty much it right? And then I'll upload the file and someone else will go clean it up. Although I gotta be honest, your microphone sounds so good that if we don't curse I probably can save the money on this one. Anyway goes up to an editor and that person like takes like leave some notes for me at the end. And the note I got today was something about like reconstructive surgery on somebody's i don't know I'm sorry most I'm not a doctor, but you know,

Melissa 24:51
they're telling you just play one on TV Exactly.

Scott Benner 24:54
The part between their button their vagina, and then and all this stuff and so Um, and he sent me a note, he goes, Hey, you're gonna want to listen to this and hear and make sure you're okay and comfortable with this and this and this. And I was like, Okay, I don't remember this at all. I said, I can't wait to put it on and remember what the hell you're talking about.

Melissa 25:17
It's like opening a Christmas gift twice. You forget the first time, you know, I'd double gifts

Scott Benner 25:21
or by gosh, I swear to you. I mean, honestly, though, with that set up, don't you think your brain would go? Oh, yeah, well, that's this not I can't, I've just recorded too much. But you you joked a minute ago about I said, I'm not a doctor. I'm certainly not. But I just got surgery on my foot. During the initial consultation with the doctor, we were having a conversation. And I started saying some things. And there's a pause. And he goes, Hey, I'm sorry. Are you a medical professional? And I said, I got embarrassed. And I said, I have a podcast

Melissa 25:56
that is under the medical category. Does that count for something?

Scott Benner 26:00
What is the budget so that I started telling me about it? And he said, Oh, you're you're incredibly knowledgeable. And I said, Oh, thanks. And like, let go of it. Like not a thing that we kept talking about. But then weeks go by and then you get the surgery and then you know, little time goes by and you visit with the doctor and I and I had to come see him because the dressing was just not holding up. And I called them and I was like, I can just rewrap this and they were like, no, no, come in, we'll rewrap it. And I was like, All right, whatever. So I rewrapped it. But I kept the appointment. I think I just wanted to get out of the house for an hour. I was like, Oh, I can still go somewhere. And so I kept the appointment. I walked in, he goes, That looks fine. I said, I rewrapped it and he goes, Oh, that makes sense. You're a doctor. And

Melissa 26:45
I was like, Well, it matters into your own hands. Quite literally.

Scott Benner 26:48
He said that podcast is really coming through. So he looks at my foot and he goes did a really nice job. And I said I all I did was wrap it with gauze and tape. I'm like, I don't know that there's a like a high ceiling here for this. Anyway, it's ridiculous. Okay, so you move from MDI to Omni pod five, after not a long time, but not a short time using MDI, either. You were very diligent about your MDI. I mean, it's a lot of shooting to maintain a number, I guess. So during the MDI time, what was your a one see, like,

Melissa 27:20
it was 5.4. I kept a 5.4 a one C, I'll choose Milissa. So it was a tremendous amount of work. Yeah,

Scott Benner 27:29
no kidding. So you're making small bumps with injections? When you see blood sugar's rising, that kind of stuff. Right, exactly. After CGM. At that point. Are you MDI with the CGM ever?

Melissa 27:40
Yes, yes, I went to my endocrinologist, he gave me the libre, I prefer the Dexcom, it was just a little bit more accurate for my body. So I just actually got insurance coverage, I was paying out of pocket. Okay, but it was well worth it. For

Scott Benner 27:55
you. I liked the way you, you attack this, for the lack of a better word, I enjoy your perspective and how you like you're like, I couldn't get a I couldn't get an antibody test. So I bought one. I didn't like that. So I paid cash. Like it's pretty cool. Okay, so now you what makes you well hold on a second, let me go back a little bit. When you're managing that tightly with MDI. Is that a thing you figured out on your own? Did you hear it through the podcast? Or read it in a book? Like, how did you decide to go after it like that? It

Melissa 28:27
was a lot of being part of the Facebook group, the juicebox Facebook group, there's a huge amount of support there. So that also being just a solid advocate. And then being of course, my kids only living parent, I felt like I didn't really have a choice but to maintain nondiabetic numbers or at least really try put in a solid effort. Wow,

Scott Benner 28:50
I was going to ask you about that earlier, but I just decided to wait to see if it came up. The idea of I gotta stay alive. Right? Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Me. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know another way to think about I think of it like that. And I didn't have anything happen, like you had happened. So it's

Melissa 29:09
really something to be faced with your own mortality or to watch the my husband pass. It's it brings a lot of things to the forefront. So it's important to be strong to be healthy, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally. Just the whole gamut. Yeah,

Scott Benner 29:24
I mean, and the five children, right. So add them to Yeah, well throw them in. Well, here's the question. If, let's say you just disappear, you float away like a balloon. We don't want to kill you. In my scenario, we'll just let you float away. Did they all go to the same person? Although under 18, like who?

Melissa 29:42
Oh, as an attorney, I have that under lock and key and it is well thought out. Yes. Yeah. But my husband was an attorney as well. So we had plans upon plans upon plans.

Scott Benner 29:52
When you told me you had five kids I knew you were both attorneys. Yes. You were guys are like I can afford this. Don't worry. As everyone else gets to and goes, we're in trouble. We got to stop. But do they go to? Like, was that a thought? Like, they have to keep them together? Where was the thought I need to put them where they fit best? Or how do you

Melissa 30:19
stay together? Yeah, they're all provided for. And luckily, I was able to get life insurance pre type one. So there said, I worry about them killing me in my sleep more than I worried about me dying from type one.

Scott Benner 30:33
Son, my son started an IRA the other day, I was very proud of him. He's just out of college. And he's talking to me about like, he started talking to me about like, you know, what am I gonna do when I'm 50? I'm like, wow, okay. We'll talk about this. So we sat down, and we talked, and I said, I think you could probably start, like opening up a simple IRA somewhere and putting an amount of money in every month and having a goal for maybe buying a home or something like that, and then a more long term goal. And so he was he was like handling all that. And I said, I want to give you the first bit of money to put in it to get you started. And he was like, Oh, great. And I told him the number which, by the way, it's not a lot of money. And I'm, you know, it's just a reasonable amount of money to get them going. And we get on the phone that day. And he said, I got the whole thing set up. I gotta sign the paperwork and everything. That guy is gonna get it to me. And I was like, great, that's all great. And he goes, How much money did you say? You were gonna give me again? And I could see that he had a number in his head. But he didn't want to say it out loud in case he was low balling it. And I watched him go, did you say, Uh huh, what did you say? is amazing. He's like, he's afraid he's gonna say five. And I said six. One and two, whatever. He doesn't want to screw himself out of it.

Melissa 31:54
You got to read the room. You got to read dad.

Scott Benner 31:57
Just for fun. Anyway, okay, so you I mean, you're doing a five four MDI. Lot of work by a lot of work. You're injecting a lot. You're watching closely. What kind of Jenny told me to say fuelling plan. Well, but it doesn't sound right to me. How do you eat? I guess, like, what's the style of food?

Melissa 32:18
I love food. I will eat anything and everything. There's two things on this planet I won't eat. That's about it. I will eat anything and everything. I love eating. In fact, my endurance running allows me to really enjoy food. So I'm certainly glad that that hasn't the type one hasn't stopped me from just eating. Yeah,

Scott Benner 32:37
you know, people aren't going to be okay with it. If I don't ask the two things you only

Melissa 32:41
oysters on the half shell And Rob Bell peppers. I just can't. Oh,

Scott Benner 32:45
interesting. The oysters I'm with you. I can't I can do mussels in a pinch. Like if I had to. If

Melissa 32:54
you were on a desert island, talking to you know, Wilson that's

Scott Benner 32:57
been in the bar and had a couple of mussels and gone. That's enough. I don't know what everyone else is going crazy on. I had three um, good. Oysters. I can't do though. That's interesting. But to just things that do not like the way they feel in your mouth or the way they taste.

Melissa 33:14
It's disgusting. It looks like a big pile. It's not I'm sorry. That's just so gross to me.

Scott Benner 33:20
What about the peppers, though?

Melissa 33:21
I don't know, they have such a strong flavor roasted I can do. But I just can't do RAW. Okay.

Scott Benner 33:26
Okay. So you're eating an eclectic mix of food. It sounds like and you're still managing that five, four. So when you decide to go to a pump, is that a difficult decision to make? Because you're doing so well? Or did you just feel feel like you needed the brake.

Melissa 33:42
I felt like I needed the brake. I knew in my gut that it was the right thing. And in fact, it had my insurance had denied it. And my doctor appealed it. And when I got the letter, I just broke down. I was picking up my son from the bus stop. And I started to cry. I showed him the letter, I knew that life was going to be so much easier, which it absolutely has. I wear a Garmin watch. And so I'm able to get my blood sugar on my watch. I'm able to Bolus through my phone, I have an Android, it could not be easier. This is a great time to be a type one if you happen to have the unfortunate fortune to be a type one. Oh, I

Scott Benner 34:18
agree. Jenny and I were talking about the other day. Well, I thought we were recording something. I don't know when you'll hear it. I can't keep track of everything. I were just talking about that. Like just you know, you just go back 100 And some years 100 And some years and Melissa you'd be gone. You don't I mean, like you would have got diabetes and you just would cease to exist. And then somebody comes up with insulin and then you know that's a miracle. And and you think well how can you get better and then it does and then the insulin gets better and then pumping and then the continuous glucose monitors are just they really are the rest of it. As far as I can tell right now. It just it's a it's a hell of a leap and I will tell you if you even go back to when Arden was diagnosed like when Arden was diagnosed it was a meter and syringes. And that was it. That's what you got. So it was just 20 years ago, right? Not even. Let me do the math. She's 19 She was diagnosed when she was two sounds like it was 17 years ago. Yeah. So Yeah. And, you know, it's funny, I really don't even know 2006 She was diagnosed. I really don't. It's not a thing I track. As a matter of fact, I think she was diagnosed in August, but I'm not even 100% sure of that. I really don't like, I don't know, I'm not that person on that stuff. But yeah, it's just it's come so far, so fast. And, and I mean, because the leaps that have happened in the last 10 years are, are really astonishing. Like, you know, really wonderful. The podcast, the Facebook group, gave you all that stuff. Did you use that to transfer your knowledge to pumping? Did you lean on this again? Or did you have it pretty solid by them? I

Melissa 35:54
did. In fact, I listened to the pro tip for the Omni pod. And that helps so much to make sure that I had my settings appropriate that I was able to Bolus in at the appropriate time Pre-Bolus seeing all of that everything is encapsulated in those I think it's four or five episodes. It is it's it's gold. Well, let's

Scott Benner 36:16
go. The diabetes Pro Tip series for Omni pod five is three episodes long. And it is available at juicebox podcast.com, forward slash Omni pod five, or it's in your player, etc, and so on. That was I'm going to take a little bit of credit here. People listening for a long time are laughing It's fine, you gotta laugh at me, I'm just gonna take credit here a number of years ago, when the idea of on the pod five G's back then they were going to call it horizon, it was going to be called Omni pod horizon. And it was in the very early stages, even nowhere near being, you know, even sent to the FDA years away from that happening. But the conversations are happening behind the scenes, we're working on this thing, here's what it's going to be. And I started advocating back then between me and the person that I do business with it on the pod, I was like, we have to make like a pro tip series to help people transition to an algorithm because it's not a thing people understand generally. And when it goes wrong, when they have their settings wrong, or when they fight with the algorithm or something like that, it's gonna go wrong, and they're gonna blame the pump. And not only is that going to be bad for you, as the company, but it's going to be bad for them. Because a number of them are going to, they're going to give up, they're going to think, oh, I tried the thing, the thing doesn't work. And that's not what we want. And I don't mean from a sales perspective. I mean, from like, a health perspective, and, you know, an ease of use and all the other good things that come out. I mean, how much do you love sleeping? Now? You know,

Melissa 37:43
it's beautiful. I love sleeping. I did my do with all of my kids waking up in the middle of the night.

Scott Benner 37:49
You didn't want a six go around with diabetes? No, thank

Melissa 37:53
you. No, thank you.

Scott Benner 37:55
I agree. But it's a different way of it's a slightly different way of thinking not just Omnipod five, by the way, but if you were going to use the tandem control IQ, or probably even the new Medtronic 780 You know, if you're going to loop if we're going to do do it yourself loop, it's all just it's a slightly different way of thinking about it. You want, you don't want to be fighting it, you want to be working with it. You know, right. That's very cool. Beautiful thing. I love it. How do you make out? I mean, it sounds like you're incredibly active. So how do you manage your activity with only about five

Melissa 38:27
if it depends on the time that I exercise during the day. So as is common, I tend to be a little bit more insulin resistant in the morning. So when I run fasted, I don't put it on activity mode, but any other time like after 10 Like today, I I hit the gym during my lunch, and I ran a couple of miles on the treadmill, I made sure to put an activity mode about an hour before to suspend the insulin. And I still actually ended up needing a little bit of sugar. So it's I always carry sugar with me always, always always, especially when I run back country. Yeah. And I of course have a little meter that I take and I do take my boxing as well. That's

Scott Benner 39:07
excellent good for you. Like just being prepared. I just got done making a couple of short episodes with people telling their experiences of using glucagon. And you know the amount of people who are not prepared or don't even didn't prior to it happening even understand why they needed to be prepared was interesting and there's that episode from not long ago. What is it the wife is telling the story of the husband going on a hike with their child he the husband gets low and starts to explain to his I think is pretty young daughter how to get back down the mountain they're on to find their grant her grandfather and have him come back and while the husband was explaining this to the child, he believed he was explaining to his kid how to go find somebody to come back and find his body like he thought he was like he He thought he was really in trouble. And then and then he found berries that he took to help bring his blood sugar back up. That is so scary, isn't it? Yeah, so scary. So if you're gonna carry your glucagon, then you know, you won't have to. You want to think give your children a map to bring back the the people who are going to drag your carcass back. You know what I mean? Right?

Melissa 40:18
Yeah, well, my kids would drive up in a Ferrari. But I have, I have definitely briefed the kids on where everything is located in the house, in my purse in my bathroom, I have the locations listed on my fridge, just in case step by step instructions. I've actually alerted my local police department and fire department. So I have a key so they don't have to do force entry in case I need to call 911. I've really thought about this. Because at some point, I will be living alone. The kids will fly the coop. So I want to make sure that I give myself I sort of stacked the deck in my favor. That's so

Scott Benner 40:58
smart. What it was that like when you contacted like your local municipality, I

Melissa 41:02
am lucky to know a couple of first responders. And so I asked them, what would be the situation if I called I knew I was going low. I just needed emergency services, but I couldn't make it to the door. And they said two options, forced entry. And I thought, well, I like my door. And they said second option is to have a lockbox with a key and then have kind of what realtors have when you do your open house and then have a code and so you can let them know the code. So no problem. They're

Scott Benner 41:34
smart. Hey, the joke earlier about the Ferrari that was that your kids were going to spend the money from the life insurance. Oh, the little stinkers Of course they did this they heard of your past and then come get you. Exactly. It was wonderful. I think this is what she said. I mean, sad.

Melissa 41:58
If you can't laugh at it, you can't laugh at it. You got to be able to take life with a grain of salt sometimes.

Scott Benner 42:03
No kidding. It does. I mean, listen, you've been offered, in my opinion, you've been offered two of the most significant perspectives that a person can have. I mean, the loss of a spouse at a younger age. And then your diagnosis, I think are two things that if you weren't already a person rich with perspective, I would imagine you you leveled up about 1000 times.

Melissa 42:32
I would hope so I think so. I really think as I mentioned earlier that taking moments for yourself doing if you're the meditative type to do some deep breathing or meditation or just revel in those moments of gratitude. The other day, I had my little guy and he brought me a flower. He goes on a walk with my oldest after dinner sometimes, and especially during summer break. And so he brought me back a flower and he said, I love you, Mommy. And so I put that flower in that's on my nightstand. And it's just those little moments. It's the last thing I see before bed. It's the first thing I see in the morning, that keep me I think in a good headspace.

Scott Benner 43:07
Is it possible that without that effort, you could have gone the wrong way?

Melissa 43:12
Oh, 100% 100% Is

Scott Benner 43:16
it? Is it something that you did you feel the draw of it and resist it? Or did you get ahead of the draw? Does that make sense? It's something

Melissa 43:26
that you're faced with, I think when anybody is faced with any difficulty or any hardship in life, it's your choice. There's a everybody faces this, whether it's type one, it's a passing of a family member, it's a loss of a job, but whatever it is, you are faced with a choice, how am I going to handle this, and I was faced with that choice. And instead of picking up something that was going to be detrimental to my health, I laced up my running shoes, I put on my climbing harness, and I just went for it. And so I ran long and I run hard I climb. And I then that's kind of really what keeps me sane. It also helps with blood sugar, a great deal as well.

Scott Benner 44:02
You're getting the double bonus there. You've beaten up absolutely up the road and getting the exercise. Oh,

Melissa 44:08
the best thing today is I didn't have to Bolus for my lunch after my run. So I got to be sort of a non diabetic for one meal. Oh, wow,

Scott Benner 44:16
that's cool. You said something earlier that I want to loop back to oh, that you can run in the morning fasted. I think that's something that you really learn with an algorithm. Because you know, you're not going to be in that situation where your Basal was too heavy overnight, and you wake up and you get low or something like that. If you don't need like, I really don't have a ton of time with this. But you know, when Arden was injecting or even when we were just using pumping, you know without an algorithm of any kind. There are times where you'd be like, well I managed this overnight. I have a nice blood sugar overnight, but you wake up in the morning and then you don't want to eat right away and hours go by If you end up getting low, then with an algorithm taking away basil and with it guessing that in the future you're gonna get low and taking taking away. You really can go. I mean, I don't know how to tell people like Arden didn't eat today. Today's an example she did not eat today until five in the afternoon. That's it. She went to bed really late at night, three, four o'clock in the morning, she got up at noon. And then she wanted to go to lunch with her friend, but her friend wasn't available. So they just she just waited, and then they went to dinner instead. And her blood sugar was super stable the entire day. Oh, I bet yeah, yeah. So no act of insulin on board and runnings not the same as active insulin and running, even if that active insulin is only just like your normal Basal, for example. Absolutely,

Melissa 45:44
the ability to suspend insulin is, is one of the hallmarks of what makes a pump I think, in my opinion, it or at least for me a little bit better than MDI, so that I can make those gameday decisions to go bang out those few miles on my lunch break, because that's the only time I have because I have to get up take the kids here their school work whatnot. So that's the only time and that's my, my sort of me time. And I'm able to fit that in, of course, always have the sugar, but the ability to suspend is something that I think is unique to pumping. Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:18
no, it's one of my favorite. I mean, honestly, I, if people may have heard me say it in, like the Pro Tip series, but being able to start and stop your basil, this is one of the first things that I thought of when we were at a pump class all those years ago for the first time. And because that that feeling of like I put the I put the Bazelon it's in there now. If it's too much or too little, it's too late. Like I already injected, you know, back then it was love Amir for Arden. But that idea, like I remember standing at that pump class and saying to my wife, look, we could like tempt the Basal, like, make it stronger, weaker, we could shut it off. I was like, I think this is like, like, it was like, mind numbing at the moment was like, what that sounds like so much control that we don't have right now. Absolutely.

Melissa 47:07
And it also means that you're not having to ingest extra fuel extra calories if you're on a weight management plan, which is important for a lot of people as well, to stay in that healthy range. I know with running extra weight is extra pressure on your joints. So it's it's definitely something that I'm aware of. And that matters. Yeah,

Scott Benner 47:31
no, it's um, it's astonishing. It's just one of the most important things I can't even say. So what I'm sorry, we're 47 minutes into this, but are we getting to the things you wanted to come on for? Or is there other stuff you want to talk about?

Melissa 47:44
I just am, I just passed my year, my first year. So I'm in year two, I think if there's one thing that I wanted to say is that there's hope this is not a death sentence, you can continue to exercise, you can eat the cupcake that you wanted to eat it, it is not an end of life type of a situation where you have to do this, that and the other, of course, you have to check your blood sugar, you have to maintain good health, but you can live and you can live quite successfully. So it's something that given the current technology today is something that is absolutely doable. You can thrive with this. I've seen it I'm living it and and the listeners can as well. Good for you.

Scott Benner 48:29
I appreciate that message. Honestly, if I can loop back around a little bit, there's this. So there's this thing that happens blesses that people say nice stuff to me. And then if you listen, you know, I get embarrassed, and then I act like an idiot because I'm not good with it. And I say stupid stuff all the time. But there's this one thing, I'm always afraid I'm not giving the right weight to. And it is that Facebook group. It's it's got so much value, but I can't like I can't bring myself to be the one to say it too much. Because I feel like it'll just sound like I'm trying to get people to join my Facebook group. That makes sense. But I wondered if you wouldn't talk a little bit about as it like an adult like a person who's just diagnosed that how was that valuable to you? Yeah, it

Melissa 49:13
was actually a lot more valuable than I was thinking because I was thinking this is probably comprised of a lot of parents, their children, their cute little babies. They're the ones with type one. So maybe this is more parent focused. But when I started becoming more active, there is a ton of adults in there that are just like me that were not diagnosed when they were two. They're diagnosed in their 40s or their 30s or 20s 18. up so there's a there's a lot of support for adults. And then when I ran the LA Marathon this last year, I think I had something like 500 comments saying a great job and almost 2000 thumbs up I mean it was it made me feel so warm and fuzzy and like I had just done something amazing. It the sub chord is there, it's there.

Scott Benner 50:01
I'm glad that I just you know what I mean? Like, it's hard for me to just say, you know, for those of you who wouldn't consider joining a Facebook group, there's

Melissa 50:10
no one to join. Yes, there's, it's

Scott Benner 50:13
there's just a ton of value in it in ways that I mean, you said you didn't expect, I didn't expect. I tried saying it over and over again, I only made the Facebook group because people, people bothered me for it. And, you know, and it was, we needed a group where we can talk about the podcast, and I was like, my first thought was, oh, no, no, no, like, I don't I very much don't want to be involved in that. But then that kind of kept coming, you know, that that pressure kept coming? And I thought, oh, will it hurt? I'll open it up. And I don't know if anybody like, like, now knows this. But I started that Facebook group, I had one rule. And the rule was, it said, Don't be an oral closed this whole thing. I don't need this problem. It was something,

Melissa 50:53
something that's funny. That's what I tell my kids. That's our family motto.

Scott Benner 50:58
You know, my wife and I, when we had kids, we, we really did settle on that as our goal. Like, we just don't want to raise kids who like when they're out and about when they leave a social setting, that they're the ones that people go. Like, exactly, yeah, that was really, that was really the only like, marching orders we gave ourselves and that we were pretty young in the beginning, although you were in college still. So I'm pretty young. So

Melissa 51:23
that's like the one thing that you learned in kindergarten that that should stick with you forever. Yeah,

Scott Benner 51:28
no kidding. Like, just anyway, that's that. If you've if you've ever thought Scott's kids sound like they came out, okay, that was really our marching orders. You're like, we just don't want that to be like, we'd make the joke about like, keeping Arden off the pole, I think because Chris rocks stand up was very popular around that time. And I think that was the joke that really, like right rang out of his standup at the time. But I mean, we really like between the two of us. That's what we said, like, just want them to be nice people. And we'll see good humans. Yeah, yeah. And the rest should work. And so I started the Facebook group, not wanting to be the person running a Facebook group. And now the joke's on me, of course, because there's, there's over 40,000 people in there, and it's like, part of my job, you know, like, a reasonable amount of my day goes to making sure that that place is somewhere you can go and have a reasonable conversation, you know, get other people's opinions without being treated poorly, and, and hopefully come out of it enrich somehow, you know, and that's

Melissa 52:25
exactly what it was. for me. That's exactly what it was. for me. I can't say enough good things about the podcast or the group, the amount of support that is needed, especially in that first year can be astronomical, especially if you don't know anyone, or you are just you're blindsided by this and all of a sudden, you're on Bolus and Basal insulin overnight, like I was, you have so many questions, and you don't know where to turn. You don't know what is credible information, what is not. You need real time feedback from people. And because we're all located in different areas of really the globe, you're going to have a question answered in minutes. It's

Scott Benner 53:04
fascinating, isn't it, like, in the middle of the night, it just like Europe just takes over for the Facebook, or Australia or New Zealand, you know, people just pop in and I that never forget the first time that happened to me that somebody was messaging me from like a South Pacific Island. And, like, it was like three in the morning. And I picked my phone up. And I'm like, You know how some people message in long messages. And some people I say, I can't Oh, if I say this, it's gonna make somebody upset that I correspond with everyday. But some people text like 14 year old girls, like one thought at a time they send sense. And that makes sense or not. But this person was doing that. And so it was ding, ding. And I just I got on, I was like, Hey, this is so nice. But it's like 330 in the morning, I need you to like, just send your whole thought, please. And I'll answer you tomorrow. My wife's like, put your phone on Do Not Disturb. I'm like I can't because Arden has diabetes at all. So you know, anyway, that's a big sales pitch for it. It's probably what it sounds like to some people. But I swear it's the value. I've gotten value out of it. Like, like even some of the things that you've heard on the podcast like ideas about a series or like sometimes I see people talking and I think that we haven't covered that yet. Or that obviously needs to be drilled down on more because look how many people bring this up, and it's just been really valuable. So anyway,

Melissa 54:32
absolutely. Especially just for plain old garden variety, encouragement when you're having a terrible day, or you've been on that roller coaster. You know that you're not alone. And I think that's the main thing that helped me is I I wasn't alone when I felt so alone.

Scott Benner 54:47
Okay, hey, so unfairly. I know what you look like because of all this. And earlier you said having babies was hard on your body, but let's be honest, you have the stomach of an 18 year old girl at this So what did you mean by that? Exactly?

Melissa 55:03
I had. My third was I have big babies. They my third was 10 and a half pounds. So my smallest one, I think was eight, three, and he was a month early. So it just, it was rough. And then, of course, they never sleep. And I nursed them for the first year. So of course, you're up every two hours. So I don't remember it. There's a gap of about 10 years that I it's just, it's all dark. I really don't remember the 10 years of my life.

Scott Benner 55:34
Just making babies and getting them bigger. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it is. It is really true, isn't it that that time is so like, I don't know, fraught with things to do and decisions to make? And I don't know, the only thing that even compares to it is when they get older, and they have to start going places. And you're you've just basically turned into an Uber driver for children.

Melissa 55:58
Right? Yeah, that's me right now. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 56:01
was gonna say you, you've probably hold on to your kids play sports.

Melissa 56:04
I have a couple that do basketball. My son did play basketball. My other son, I have two girls and three boys played baseball. So they've sort of kind of round robin all the different sports tennis. Wow,

Scott Benner 56:18
geez, it's a lot. It's just a lot of running and being places and how do you make decisions about where you park yourself and stay and where you're like, drop and go and come back?

Melissa 56:28
Well, it has become so much easier now that I have other drivers in the house. And I still have all five living with me. So I offer them free college tuition, if they stay home, and they can live here for free, I will pay for their college. And so it's really the only way that I'm going to be able to pay for five kids and college. So they do that they live at home. So we really do a cost reduction that way. And they help out and my girls help out a whole lot with driving and picking up groceries so on and so forth. So it does get easier. In some ways. You just worry a little bit more because they're out doing God knows what sometimes

Scott Benner 57:06
to try not to figure out what they're doing. I do my only like proviso is I'm I'm always like, if you want a cell phone and you want me to pay for it, I get to know where the phone is. Right? That's one of my things. I just like I get it, I get to know where your phone is. I'm not tracking you. I'm not sitting here watching you constantly or anything like that. But if I get worried, I want to know where your money comes in handy. A little bit I've talked about before, like, like I've seen art and below while she's a college. But But before I've stepped in to say hey, are you okay? I'll look at where she's at. And if she's in the dining hall, for example, I go, okay, she's taking care of this. And then that saves her from one of me pinging her about it, which I think is a big deal. But I liked that also. Yeah, I may or may not have once watched my son on a map drive to work one day. I really missed him one morning. And I picked up my phone and I realized oh Cole must be on his way to work. I have like a widget on my phone like a find my widget. And it seems to randomly show you one person that the other in on the widget screen and it was him and I touched it and it opened up. And his like the picture I use for him in my contacts is him like he's like four years old at a baseball game like running like running to first base. So I watched little four year old him run through Atlanta for like four or five minutes. And I thought I'll never ever tell him I did this.

Melissa 58:39
Well, Your secret's safe with me and 12 million other listeners.

Scott Benner 58:43
Everybody knows what I did that one morning. And meanwhile, there's no way these kids are ever listening. i My assumption is the only way my kids ever listen to this podcast is if I if I die and they get sad. They're like, oh, I want to hear my dad's voice. Because Oh, Melissa, Let's bomb each other out again. Did you keep voicemails?

Melissa 59:01
Yes. Oh, yes. And videos and all of that. Oh, yeah. You have to have that for the for the kids. So

Scott Benner 59:07
once my mom was diagnosed, I stopped deleting her voicemails. And I would even is more but I think but sometimes she'd leave me a voicemail, but I knew I was going to call her right back. So I wouldn't listen to the voicemail. So I still have some I've never heard before. And I do go listen to them once in a while. Yeah,

Melissa 59:32
I don't think there's any wrong way to grieve. Yeah, there's no timeline. There's no way there's no map. It's just you go with sort of your your heart and your heart will always lead you toward healing. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:48
I get blindsided once in a while. But I feel a little grateful to be the age I am that my mom lived as long as she did too. Because it does feel I mean the thing that I mean, obviously, it's not a spouse but I at least had the feeling that she lived a long life, which is something you don't get to think. But anyway, I anyway, once in a while I opened up a voicemail I've never heard before, and I listened to it. And it's I don't know, it's comforting for some reason. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Christ now I'm gonna make myself cry. And then I earlier I said, If I don't curse, there won't be any problems. So now I cursed the basically cost me money to curse today, because now I have to send this out for editing. And the guy who's editing it is hearing this right now and go and chit Ching. Right, Rob? Sorry. If

Melissa 1:00:44
he wants to talk about my pole dancing class, it needs to be edited out either.

Scott Benner 1:00:48
Well, wait a minute. We're at the end, Melissa.

Melissa 1:00:53
What's the word on that? Don't

Scott Benner 1:00:54
stop now. Okay, I'm gonna circle back around to one of my earlier questions. Do you think you'll like bait again, to

Melissa 1:01:03
be determined right now it is just really being here for my kids. And it's managing my diabetes and making sure that I can hit that LA with a better mileage time than I did last year. So that's an obviously I want to just do great work too, especially for the disabled vets that I that I represent.

Scott Benner 1:01:24
The disabled vets thing. Is that something you do through you're like, do I don't know how to ask this question. Do you work for a company? Or do you?

Melissa 1:01:30
Are you a nonprofit? nonprofit law firm? Wow.

Scott Benner 1:01:34
Oh, that's you've been doing nonprofit your whole life.

Melissa 1:01:37
I have here in there on a volunteer basis. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:01:41
That's excellent. So you work for a private company where you do something for yourself, and then you do the work for the nonprofit as well. Yes. That's nice. That's a lovely use of your time.

Melissa 1:01:51
It feels fantastic. It's there's just when they look at you, and they say thank you, it means the world. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:58
I never thought. I guess I didn't wonder about it when I was younger. But helping people is really a large part of my life. Which I mean, I guess if people are listening, they think yeah, obviously. But it wasn't that obvious to me. So I didn't know. Like, I started the blog. To try to chase I started my blog because I tried to raise money for the JDRF. And it didn't go well. And the internet was just becoming a thing. Like, I know that sounds weird. And I thought I could use this blogging thing, maybe to tell more people about diabetes. And again, I know that sounds ridiculous. But in 90, munchies, when was it? 2006. Blogs weren't even a thing people exactly knew what they were like, it was all kind of new. And then that worked. And then then there's that drive for like, Oh, what do I put on here? Like, if I'm going to keep doing it, I have to keep doing things. And I went the route of like sharing very, like raw, like feelings. And after doing that for a while, I thought, Well, that's nice. But I mean, I've got people's attention now. Like I should help them. And that's where that all started. Because I was not a person running around helping people prior to that. But it's been one of the most valuable parts of my adult life. And certainly,

Melissa 1:03:17
and it kind of gets you out of your own life. It allows you to connect with other people in a different way that you wouldn't ordinarily connect that connection so important just to being a human were meant for connection. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:03:32
million percent. I'm sorry, I cut you off. I didn't mean to. Oh,

Melissa 1:03:37
yeah. And so that's it. It allows the feelings of the good feelings, the good vibes to come coursing through. So you just it just everybody wins. And

Scott Benner 1:03:47
if you're like me, and you're like a resolution oriented mind, like, like me, you can hear it earlier, like such a ridiculous thing. My mom got cancer, and I was like, there's a way around this. I can't fix enough problems to properly make whatever's wrong with me feel better. So being able to help more people, actually is more helpful for me.

Melissa 1:04:13
Like certainly, yeah, yeah, I've tried great way to help yourself is to help others. Yeah, yeah, I get that. I

Scott Benner 1:04:19
used to say that the podcast helps me more than it helps you. You just don't realize it. So right. Yeah, I love watching. Like, I can't tell you it seems. I don't know. I'm not boasting, but I probably hear from a dozen people a day. You know, in different different ways. Instagram, Facebook, email. Some people who I've made the mistake in the past of texting. If any of you heard that, it's fine. We're all good. Don't worry about it. But a lot of people will text me. I used to be for the podcast. I used to have conversations like like, the podcast is probably just the recording of conversations I used to have with people probably Lily about diabetes. And so I hear from people a lot of different ways over and over again every day. And every time I see them have like a resolution or like an aha moment or something happens for them where their life gets better or easier or healthier or something like that. There's like a small part of me. That just feels like oh, I helped with that. Oh, absolutely. So it helps me a lot. I didn't know this. Absolutely. Gonna go like this when we got on tonight, but thank you. Anyway, is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have?

Melissa 1:05:38
I don't think so. I think we covered quite a bit.

Scott Benner 1:05:41
We did. Okay.

Melissa 1:05:42
I think we did fantastic. Why

Scott Benner 1:05:44
did we move this so many times? Was it for work? I can't even remember for you. It was my work. Yeah. I'm gonna put a couple of nighttimes on the calendar next year. This is I found this nice after I relaxed

Melissa 1:05:56
I certainly hope there's no storms next time. No, no,

Scott Benner 1:06:00
it actually it was crazy. It was supposed to storm the entire time you and I were on but it just it came a little earlier was really violent. And it stopped just as you and I were getting started so

Melissa 1:06:09
I was pretty excited when God's are favoring tonight. Finally,

Scott Benner 1:06:13
finally. Thank you. Alright, well, let's I appreciate you taking the time and doing this. Oh, thank you. Of course. Yeah. What can you hold for me for a minute? Yep, great.

A huge thanks to touched by type one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Check them out on their website touched by type one.org or on Facebook and Instagram. You can use the same continuous glucose monitor that Arden uses. All you have to do is go to dexcom.com/juicebox and get started today. That's right, the Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com.

If you are a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes. The bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bowl beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. This series is made up of 24 episodes. And it begins that episode 698 In your podcast, or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this to listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bold beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bold beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies in Episode 715 We talked about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 735 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bold beginning series. We talk about community 772 journaling 776 technology and medical supplies. Episode Seven at treating low blood blue ghosts, Episode 784 dealing with insurance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management. Check it out, it will change your life. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that it really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1146 Cold Wind: Healthcare Whistleblower E.R. Tech/Nurse

"Mimi" has been an E.R. tech and an E.R. nurse. Her voice and name have been changed to protect her identity.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1146 of the Juicebox Podcast

we're calling today's guest Mimi, she's 27 years old was diagnosed with type one diabetes in 2001. And she's been a nurse for about a year before that Mimi was an ER tech for eight years, and this is what she experienced at her job. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juicebox Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. I'm talking about T one D exchange again and I hope you head over to complete the survey T one D exchange.org/juicebox. Looking for US residents who have type one diabetes or are the caregiver of someone with type one. They're especially looking for you if you are a male, a male of color, or the caregiver of someone who is T one D exchange.org/juicebox podcast. US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years. You can as well us med.com/juice box or call 888721514 Use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com forward slash juicebox Hello and welcome to the cold wind series from the Juicebox Podcast. These episodes will feature physicians, nurses and other professionals who agreed to come on the show anonymously to share what they see in the healthcare profession. I've altered the voices of each guest so that they can remain anonymous and feel comfortable telling us what really goes on at their job. Just listen to how well the voice alternative works.

Beth 2:35
My name is Beth and my oldest child has type one diabetes diagnosed in October 2020. My name is Beth and my oldest child has type one diabetes diagnosed in October 2020.

Scott Benner 2:47
If you work in health care and have a chilling story to tell about your experiences in the healthcare field, contact me today. I'll get you right on the show. Your story does not need to be specific to diabetes. Mi Mi tell me what you do for a living.

'Mimi' 3:05
I am an ER nurse.

Scott Benner 3:07
And do you have type one diabetes?

'Mimi' 3:10
I do. I was diagnosed February 28 2001.

Scott Benner 3:15
Oh, that's a while ago. Okay. Yeah. You knew the exact date February 28. Oh,

'Mimi' 3:21
we celebrate it?

Scott Benner 3:22
Do you do the thing where you have like a diversionary party?

'Mimi' 3:26
Ah, no. So much a party it kind of it's just like eating absolutely anything I want all day. That's how it started. And then as I got older, I'm like, Wow, it's really not fun feeling like crap all day. So now it's really just like, I'm gonna have a little treat here and a little treat there and call it a day. Celebrate yourself.

Scott Benner 3:47
So you've had type one for over 20 years. Yeah, for most of my life. I was gonna say how old are you now?

'Mimi' 3:54
27.

Scott Benner 3:55
Okay, how long have you been a nurse?

'Mimi' 3:59
I've actually only been a nurse for a year, almost exactly a year. But before I was a nurse, I was an ER tech. And I did that for just under eight years. What does an ER tech do? So it depends on your hospital and state. But where I was working, I basically did what nurses do, except I wasn't doing assessments and giving medications. So I was starting IVs I could put in catheters EKGs casting and splinting CPR when necessary, but lots of like task oriented stuff.

Scott Benner 4:35
Okay. How long does it take to become an ER tech?

'Mimi' 4:37
So similarly, it's dependent on your hospital and your state, but I just had my CNA, my nursing assistant license, and then everything else that I was able to do, I was taught on the job.

Scott Benner 4:49
Okay, so you went right into like a, what happens after high school you get like an associate's degree.

'Mimi' 4:55
So for CNA, it's just a certificate. So some programs are like weeks summer 12. I think mine was an eight week program. I actually started working at like an assisted living facility as a resident aide. And they were like, Oh, if you go get your CNA, we'll pay you more. And I was like, okay, like, why not? It's not expensive to get. And then once I got my CNA, my best friend's mom, who was a charge nurse at our local er was like, Oh, now that you have your CNA, you can come work for us. And like, we'll teach you all these things. And it'll be really great if you want to go to nursing school in the future. So that's what I did. I it was like, probably six months after I graduated high school, because I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to do something with medicine, but like, I had no idea because there's so many different ways you can go, right?

Scott Benner 5:43
I guess the assisted living place was thrilled, they suggested that CNA and then they lost. So

'Mimi' 5:51
get your certificate, and we'll pay you more. And then I was like, Oh, I'm actually going to leave now. But thanks for the suggestion.

Scott Benner 5:58
They should have said, but you have to stay after you do it. Right. So okay, so you did the ER tech thing for what like, geez. For?

'Mimi' 6:09
Yeah, it was almost eight years, because I kind of went back and forth between wanting to go to like PA school or even med school. But then I was working more as a tech and seeing how those roles, like interact with patients and stuff. And I was like, I don't know, there's really not that much patient interaction. But I really liked the like, hands on tasky skill stuff. So I was like, I can still do that as a nurse and like help providers with those, like skills and tasks and procedures as a nurse and still get more patient contact. So I ended up going to nursing school. Let's see, I actually started before COVID. And then the place that I was working at the time, the ER had mandatory overtime. And I was like, I can't do school and work with mandatory overtime. So something's gotta give. And I took a break in school, actually, because obviously, my job was my health insurance. And I can't go without health insurance. So I took like a year and a half break in school and just did like online, general education classes to stay with it. And then went back. Let's see two years ago now, three years ago,

Scott Benner 7:23
what pushed you down and what pushed you to go back and finish?

'Mimi' 7:27
I loved being a tech. Honestly, if it paid a livable wage, I would probably do that forever. But it didn't. I was on the East Coast and the cost of living was really high. So I was like, I have to finish something to make more money. And I'm really happy with my decision actually to take a break because nursing school is very cutthroat, especially working full time and being in school full time. So full time for like nursing in hospitals, 36 hours, so I was working 36 hours a week had 24 hours of clinical a week, plus probably close to 1012 hours of lecture a week.

Scott Benner 8:04
36 type or 30. And that does like 70 hours worth of work for the degree. Yeah, and

'Mimi' 8:11
that's not including, like sleeping, and eating and going to the gym and like

Scott Benner 8:16
being a human being. And you were working you would have to work to Yeah,

'Mimi' 8:20
so it was a lot it was very time consuming. And most nursing schools, you have to have an average of 80% to be passing. So it's not like C's get degrees like you'll be fine. Do the bare minimum and you can be a nurse. So it was very time intensive. And like if you showed up late to lecture, you don't get to enter the room. And if you don't get to enter the room, you only get to miss three lectures that semester like it's very cutthroat. So taking a break was probably the best thing I could have possibly done for myself and I have absolutely no regrets even though at the time I was like wow, could have been a nurse two years ago but when

Scott Benner 9:00
you say cutthroat you mean unforgiving? Where do you mean there are actually people out there trying to knock you down? US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for yours, you can as well. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med if you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action Luckily G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you storage EVO Capo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G vo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about YG vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit GE voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information.

'Mimi' 10:42
I think it kind of depends on the program. But it does feel like they're kind of out to get you sometimes. Our clinical Instructure instructors are part time staff so they don't teach like any lecture or anything. They're strictly clinical. So you go to the hospital and you practice your skills and patient interactions with a bedside nurse. And some of those instructors. I think nursing is a very young profession, which a lot of people know a lot of people say they don't like but then a lot of people also contribute to. So it was kind of like they don't want to see you fail. But if you start to go down that route, they're not going to help you kind of thing. Okay, they want you to like figure it out on your own. And that's not the easiest thing to do when someone's life is in your hands. It's really tough. I just I always say cutthroat, but like, there's some professors that Like genuinely want the best for you and will do everything in their power to help you pass. And then there's some that are like, Well, if you can't figure it out, you're not meant to be a nurse.

Scott Benner 11:48
Have you had experience, I guess, with people who take joy in the failure? Or do you think they think they're washing you out and saving the profession from someone who's not prepared and couldn't do it?

'Mimi' 12:01
I would like to think it's the latter. Like they want strong nurses out of school. But a lot of nursing, you don't learn in school, you learn it on the job. So if you can't make it to the job, you're never going to become a strong nurse. The same people are the ones complaining about like being overworked and understaffed because we can't get good nurses and like, you're not giving nurses the opportunity to become nurses.

Scott Benner 12:27
Is it a hazing?

'Mimi' 12:29
I think it really depends on honestly, your geographical location. Because like I said, I checked on the East Coast for a long time. And it's a very densely populated area that I was in. And nursing is much different there than where I am now, which is like, kind of Midwest Pacific Northwest. And nursing here is I tell people all the time, it's so much better, that patients are genuinely nicer. I feel like we have more time to spend with our patients. They're almost healthier here. Because people live such an outdoors, like active lifestyle, it's just almost easier to care for them because they want the best for themselves. So my experience out here has been so much more positive than any experience I ever had during nursing school on the East Coast or even as a tech on the East Coast. Okay.

Scott Benner 13:20
I wonder if your nursing school experience would have been different? Had you done it somewhere else?

'Mimi' 13:25
Maybe right, I would like to think so. We see a lot of nursing students in my current er, and they all seem like very excited to become a nurse. Wow, my classmates were like, dreading it.

Scott Benner 13:41
So yeah, the process is so bizarre. No, it's not the process of going through nursing school makes you just think, Oh, this is going to be if this is what this was, then the job is going to be 1000 times worse.

'Mimi' 13:53
Yeah. And honestly, during nursing school, I thought I was going to be a bad nurse. Because we did all of our clinical like on inpatient units or not in the ER, and the ER was the only thing I really knew. So I was like, I feel like I'm supposed to be doing more things. But I don't know what those things are here. And the documentation was very different. And I was like, if this like my instructor had to keep, like prompting me to do things and I'm like, I feel like I should be better at this. Like I have a lot of clinical experience and very comfortable with patients. So like, why am I struggling so hard with this? And then as soon as I got back into the ER, I was like, oh, okay, I am a good nurse, I'm going to be fine. I don't know why I felt that way in a different setting, but it's not me.

Scott Benner 14:42
During nursing school, how are things broken down? I think people listening, you know, they go to a hospital and they expect the first person that they intersect and every person thereafter to have a complete understanding of what's going on and their needs, which it seems unreasonable to me but at the same time You know, what else am I supposed to think? Because a patient walking in like I come in and I have a disorder, I have a disease. I have type one. And I'm here for that. I feel like you're supposed to know but you don't really know. Right? You do. What is it that a nurse is prepared for in nursing school is my question. In

'Mimi' 15:16
nursing school, we are prepared for taking tests. As bad as it sounds. A lot of nursing schools are just focused on pass or success rate for the boards, which is called NCLEX. I don't remember what that stands for. But it's like your national registry. You take the exam, you pass and then you're officially a registered nurse. So like, just because you're done nursing school doesn't mean you're a nurse yet.

Scott Benner 15:41
So nursing school taught you how to take nursing school tests.

Unknown Speaker 15:44
Yes, okay

'Mimi' 15:46
with understanding of basic disease processes and the human body. So your first semester of nursing school was basically like an introduction to med surg. And med surg is just like general medicine. A lot of the chronic things that people deal with mostly like heart failure, COPD, and basic like taking vital signs and how to do a bed change and stuff like that. Second semester, this is different for every program, it's generally broken down. Similarly, second semester was med surg two and maternal and fetal medicine. So like OB, third semester was med surg three, and mental health. And then fourth semester for us was like critical care, and er, which it wasn't really a ton of Emergency Medicine stuff. But it was just like, really critical thinking and like, disease processes that would lead you in the ICU kind of thing.

Scott Benner 16:50
So you get a background of a general overview of what everyone most likely comes in with. And then it's learned on the job after that. Oh,

'Mimi' 17:00
yeah, I learned way more as a tech being very vocal with my nurses and providers in my er, than I did in nursing school. Nursing School did teach me how to test questions and break them down to where if I don't know the answer, I can figure out the answer from the question and like process of elimination. But yeah, I didn't really learn a ton of information in nursing school other than like, OB and fetal medicine, because like, I did not know anything about that, because that's not anything we deal with in the ER at all. Yeah, usually. But I struggled with that semester, the entire semester, I was not passing until the final exam, I took the final and got like a 90%. And that brought me 1% of passing. It's

Scott Benner 17:50
funny, you're describing nursing school, like an LSAT prep course.

'Mimi' 17:54
That's exactly how it felt. Okay,

Scott Benner 17:56
have you taken one of those LSAT preps?

'Mimi' 17:58
Oh, a long time ago, but

Scott Benner 18:01
I have same idea like this is how you break down a question. This is how you figure something out when you don't know the answer to it. Like, here's how you pass the test. Yeah,

'Mimi' 18:09
that's exactly right. And like I said, it's because they want us to have that higher testing percentage in order to pass boards. Because if you so if I graduated, and like, I think it's less than 70% of my graduating class doesn't pass boards, we lose our accreditation. So they want everyone to pass boards, whether they're a competent nurse or not. They want them to be able to answer the questions correctly to pass.

Scott Benner 18:37
So I'm getting so it's possible, I'm getting a nurse that was just kind of pushed through. Yes, unfortunately, that the institution could continue on. Yeah. Every time we set a rule, it seems that just people find a different way to break it. Like you know what I mean? Like you get understand in the beginning, where somebody's like, Look, you have to pass at least 70% of the people to keep your accreditation as a, you know, a place that's good at teaching people how to be a nurse, but instead, to quickly turn it into a business thing, where they're like, well, we just got to get them through so that we don't lose the accreditation, because that's where we make our money selling nursing to people. Yeah,

'Mimi' 19:13
yeah. And I actually went to an Associate's program. So I have my associates, associate's degree in nursing versus a bachelor's in nursing. And at least where I came from on the East Coast, our school did have a much better reputation of our graduates versus some of the bachelors programs, because we had more required clinical hours. So while they are really like pushing us to just test well, we also were required to do a lot more hands on experience time, which I think is a huge benefit. Even though we have more than most schools. I still think more is better, especially with my background, like during nursing school. Yeah, I had 24 hours of clinical week, but I was also working in addition Not 36. So that's like another 36 hours of exposure to patient care for me. So I think that prepared me more than anything for my current job. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 20:11
once had a nickname NICU nurse tell me that they, they laugh at the kids that come out of like a four year bachelor's program from a private college, you ended up spending 60 $80,000 on their undergrad to be nurses. And they're like, you could, you could have done that in community college for four grand. And yeah,

'Mimi' 20:30
that's exactly what I tell people to like, where I am now, there's not really many community colleges. So it's not really a an option here. But because I was working full time, I didn't pay anything for my degree. My hospital paid for it.

Scott Benner 20:46
Oh, because you can Oh, that's right, because you kind of went back to school while you were a met. So once you were attacked, you told them look, I want to go back and get my RN, and they're like, well pay for it. Yeah. So

'Mimi' 20:57
depending on your hospital, despite what program you're doing, I think they reimburse up to $2,500 a year for undergraduate, and 3500 a year for post grad. But then there's some hospitals that also have like a Nursing Scholarship Program, where they'll pay for it. And you owe the hospital like two years of employment after versa. They say, some people take their chances and leave. And they're like, well, if they want me to pay it back, they can find me.

Scott Benner 21:29
Find me? Well, they did take a risk, because you really screwed over that. The elderly care place. Yeah, exactly. Like I can blow right out of here.

'Mimi' 21:41
I actually did leave before my time was like, due for my tuition reimbursement. It was like, I think one year after the last payout. And I hadn't even graduated before I put in my notice, because I knew I was moving. But the hospital that I was working at, I just was not interested in staying. And like I said, the culture of like East Coast medicine or religious a densely populated area was not a great culture to work in. And I wanted it to be at a trauma receiving hospital versus a hospital that receives a very sick or high acuity from a patient and then ships them somewhere else. Yeah, I had worked in that environment for long enough. And I was like, I kind of want to be on the receiving end and like, see more acutely ill or injured people. I know, it sounds kind of twisted. But I really liked like critical thinking and like more sick patients.

Scott Benner 22:36
Gotcha. My wife once described her job as like King of the Mountain. She's like, everybody below you is trying to knock you off the mountain. Like just, it's nonstop. She's like, it never ever stops. And you know, you're in meetings, and you have to say things in certain ways so that people can take advantage of your words, if you miss speak, and they're always everybody's throwing everybody ever under every bus they can find and all just, you know, ladder climbing, trying to trying to get up there. I mean, you moved halfway across the country, I don't want to tell people where you are. But you move pretty far getting away from getting away from all that. Yeah,

'Mimi' 23:13
I moved, I think it's actually like 2073 miles or something away from where I was.

Scott Benner 23:21
So if I asked you to, you know, blow the whistle on nursing, what are the things that popped to your mind right away that you'd want to share with people that are happening that they wouldn't imagine? I

'Mimi' 23:32
don't really see much at my current job. But as most of my background was that my most recent previous job, a lot of nurses hate being nurses, they do the bare minimum, and they protect their licenses the best they can. And they don't really advocate for their patient. They don't use that critical thinking, like prevent future problems, which it comes from both the nurse and the patient, because a lot of patients don't even want to help themselves. So what are we going to say that's going to help them. So there's just so much burnout, that it's tough to provide really good care, because they don't want it like patients want a quick fix. They want a pill to make their blood pressure better, instead of changing their diet or their lifestyle. And you give them that pill and then they go on their way and you'll see them in six months for some other medical emergency. Burnout is just so severe in nursing right now that it's really hard to want to provide good care. And especially in like an ER you're surrounded by your co workers, and if they don't want the best for the patient and like you kind of just like almost stoop to their level and it's really hard to change the energy in that situation.

Scott Benner 24:50
So going, going back to the first step of that. You said that a lot of nurses you know, don't want to be nurses. So using your story, to try to surmise Are we just becoming an RN for the, because it pays more? Do you think they want to help people when they get there? And they fall into the machine and the apathy? And they're like, Oh, what am I trying for?

'Mimi' 25:11
Yeah, I think it's a little bit of a ladder. But I think a lot of nurses also don't have the like, real life nursing experience that I bring with all of my tech experience. So like, they don't really know what they're getting themselves into. Granted, you have your clinical nursing school, but that is, so it's like not self directed at all. So like, every minute of every day is structured, you walk into clinical, and you have a piece of paper saying, at 7am, you go in and introduce yourself to your patient. At 8am, you go do an assessment, at 9am, you pass morning meds at 10am. You make sure no one needs to go to the bathroom. Like, it's just so programmed into your head that everything is like a timed process. Yeah, that if anything skews from that you like panic, like there's no autonomy in clinical and also when you're forced to use autonomy as a nurse after school. I think people really struggle with that. So they get out into the field, and they're like, Oh, this is not what I've done. And I'm uncomfortable. And now I'm just gonna, like fall into a pattern of what everyone else is doing. Because it works for them. So it'll work for me, you'd

Scott Benner 26:23
like answered an ad that was like, you want to work outside? Do you like having the wind in your hair? Do you like driving, you'd be like, Oh my God, it's amazing that you realize that you're like, gonna ride the back of a garbage truck. And they left out the part where there'll be maggots and hot bags of garbage all day. And like, so yeah. It's not quite what they think until they get there. And they experience it. And they're like, Oh, I didn't want this. But now it's too late.

'Mimi' 26:46
Yeah, and it's really, it's really tough to because people think emergency medicine, they're thinking like trauma and like broken bones and all kinds of stuff. And, as I'm sure everyone knows, there's like a huge mental health crisis across the country, probably the world, but we see a lot of mental health patients. And that's, it is an emergency, it's an emergency for them. And it's a crisis. But like, it's not the like thrilling emergency that everyone thinks they're going to get when they work in the ER, we see a lot of homeless patients. We see a lot of patients who don't have insurance. So the ER is the only place that will treat them prior to payment. Like it's a healthcare crisis, not just a mental health crisis. Let me rephrase that.

Scott Benner 27:32
One of the people who's been on the show already and recorded for this said that she's like a, I forget how she said it. Like I I'm sorry to say this, she said, but there are a lot of nurses who are trauma hoarse. She told me yeah,

'Mimi' 27:43
we can trauma junkies and like, I won't deny that I am not a trauma junkie, I love trauma, but it's also something that will burn you out really fast, too. So you see the worst of the worst. And if you see that, three shifts in a row, you get off and you're just like, wow, that was really emotionally taxing. Like as good as you can be at dissociating, it's still taxing probably

Scott Benner 28:08
like an adrenal overload, right? Like all that. Oh, for sure. The dopamine kick you get from it, and the adrenaline and everything. And then is it? Is it like doing drugs?

'Mimi' 28:16
I don't know, because I haven't done drugs. Very good. Mimi, there you go. But it is very exhilarating. There's a roller it's a good job. Yeah. Okay. There are certain parts of the job that I'm like, Wow, this must be like what cocaine feels like. Like one time, I put an IV in a six day old premature infant who, like the IV team couldn't even get access in I put in like a very small IV in her ankle. And I was just like, wow, they stuck this kid like eight times. I got it on the first try. I am on this high, and I'm gonna ride it the rest of my shift like, I'm unstoppable. But like, then you crash from that, like, I got home and I couldn't sleep. And then I was so tired. Once I like, came down off at high I was like overtired couldn't fall asleep. And then I like barely slept before going back for my next shift. And I was like, ah, was it worth

Scott Benner 29:12
it? Yeah. And then the next day a lady poops on you. Yeah,

'Mimi' 29:16
exactly. Or you have like a patient with bedbugs. or somebody's like, trying to punch you like, it's, it's chaos all the time.

Scott Benner 29:25
They're talking to you and spider man at the same time. And you're like, Oh, this is yeah, great. I gotcha.

'Mimi' 29:31
Trying to like, get the bugs out from under their skin. And you're like, please don't do that in front of me. And

Scott Benner 29:36
then when you get to like a regular old, everyday normal person who's just in there and sick their thing is, like banal and at least it's not insane. And then they don't get the level of care that you'd love to give to them because you have all these other influences bothering you. These variables. You're a real person to you have all these variables pushing on you. And then when you probably get a moment where it's not, oh my God, look at this amazing thing I did or Jesus, please stop pooping on the wall. It's just like, that's boring. It's regular, and you just get it done. And then you go back to this 10 o'clock do you have to pay blah, blah, you go to the schedule, you get them out of there. And that person later probably thinks I did not get very good care.

'Mimi' 30:15
Yeah, and it's really tough. Again, with the healthcare crisis, we're getting all these patients in the ER that need to be admitted to the hospital. And then there's no either open beds, or there's open beds, and no nurses to care for those open beds. So those patients just sit in the ER for sometimes days on end, we call them borders. At my hospital, it's pretty standard that you have four beds in your assignment. And if I have two borders, and then two er beds, that I could be turning every couple of hours with very sick, critical patients. My borders are gonna have to wait, whether it's scheduled meds are getting them to the bathroom. Luckily, we have great Tech's very work that'll help do most of those things. If they can, like, oh, we need to put them on a hospital bed to make them more comfortable or take them to the bathroom or something like that. But like if I get a patient in one of my er beds, it's having a heart attack that requires all of my attention until they leave my room. Right. So then yeah, my boarders will not get the attention that they need for possibly up to like four hours, I say. So it's definitely a disservice to them.

Scott Benner 31:24
I want to go back to the other thing that you said when you were kind of laying out the job, which is people are there because they're sick, and they recognize that they need help, but they're not necessarily the best shepherds of their own health to begin with. Yeah. And so is it like being a lifeguard for a person who's trying to drown?

'Mimi' 31:45
Yes, a lot of times, like I said, people are generally in better health here than they were back on the East Coast. Like people who have COPD or heart failure, they've had these things for a better portion of their late life, let's just say they're like 80 years old, they've probably had COPD, since they were 5560. They've also smoked a pack of cigarettes a day, every day for their entire life really, and they have no desire to quit. So while I am at the room next door dealing with a patient having a heart attack, they're on oxygen, they're vitally stable. They're pounding their call that and because they need their nicotine patch. And then I can't get them their nicotine patch in time. So they're like, I'm leaving against medical advice, because I need a cigarette. So then I have to page the doctor that's taking care of them, because while they're in ER patient, the ER doctors right there, but when the reporter, the admitting physician is usually not in the ER, they're somewhere else. So I need to page them and either get them on the phone or have them come talk to the patient. Because nothing I say is going to change their mind and make them want to stay. They have to hear from a doctor and that's most patients. So like, you're just a nurse, what do

Scott Benner 33:01
you know? Yeah, the addiction is driving them to at that moment. Yeah. And

'Mimi' 33:05
it's the same with like alcoholics to Alcoholics can withdraw and very quickly be an ICU level patient. Despite what we can give them. It's not going to help their withdraws. It's not going to help their their tremors and all of the symptoms are experiencing. So they just want to leave and drink to feel better.

Scott Benner 33:23
I was like 16 years old, my father took me to lunch. And we were heading into this diner. And this a long time ago, so used to walk into a diner and in the vestibule there were two things like Miss Pac Man and cigarette machines. And I would imagine most people don't even know what a cigarette machine looks like, to be perfectly honest, right? But there used to be these things. You put quarters and you pull the lever back and a pack of smokes, which smoke drop out of it. So my dad would go into the diner. He would put quarters in take a cigarettes go in and sit and you could smoke in restaurants. So he'd sit there and smoke while he was waiting for his food. And we walk in and the machine does not have his brand. And it's out of his brand and his backup brand. For old school smokers. My dad smoked Chesterfield kings, which were filterless cigarettes. And then in a pinch, he'd smoke a Pall Mall if he had to. I said, Oh, that there's no cigarettes. And he's like, yeah, he goes, it'll be fine. So we go in, and we sit down. And I don't think we ordered before he broke a sweat. And then his he got red in the face. And you could see the anxiety hit him. You don't I mean, and then the West, and then immediately the withdrawal. And to the point where I was like, I can go across the street to the gas station and get cigarettes for you. And he goes, No, no, don't worry about that. And then two minutes later, he's pulling money out of his pocket. Go get those cigarettes for me. Yeah. Yeah.

'Mimi' 34:50
And that's how it is for drinkers too. Except I feel like the symptoms of withdrawal are like they're much worse. It's almost like having like the flu. Like you'll get a fever. Yeah, you'll be having like the cold sweats, vomiting, hallucinations, like, they are very time intensive patients. And in the hospital, everyone is so worried about falls. Because if a patient is there for something, and they fall, whether they're whether they sustain an injury or not, it's a big deal. And especially when they're hallucinating, they're vomiting. They have to go to the bathroom frequently. They're always trying to get out of bed. Yeah, they're a huge fall risk. So you either need a tech or a senator to sit with them, or you need to be within earshot. They're very time

Scott Benner 35:36
intensive, called on fall. Yeah.

'Mimi' 35:39
Don't fall. Stay with me called

Scott Benner 35:41
Don't sue us. Exactly. Call

'Mimi' 35:45
don't fall and give yourself a brain bleed.

Scott Benner 35:49
So here's what I'm getting. By the way, I don't have we even touched on the things you were going to talk about. No, not at all. Go to that stuff, then I'll go back to my thing. What

'Mimi' 35:58
did you want to talk about? So I tell type one patients all the time that I understand their frustrations and how the hospital does a huge disservice to well control diabetics. I hear that I know it. I, personally, relating to the previous ER nurse that was on the podcast. Similarly, I don't want to be admitted to the hospital. I know it's going to do bad things for my control. But I do trust about 90% of my co workers to take great care of me, including our physicians.

Scott Benner 36:31
You heard the the nurse who said I wouldn't go to my own er, if I had a problem for my diabetes. Correct? Yeah.

'Mimi' 36:38
I would absolutely go to my own er, I don't, it might have something to do with personalities. Obviously, I don't know the other nurse that was on here. But I am very open about my diabetes. I tell everyone I work with please ask me questions. If it's going to help you understand something better or help a patient. I often get text messages and phone calls. While I'm off saying like, hey, my patient has an insulin pump or like a CGM. How do I take it off, which if a patient isn't able to tell a nurse how to take their pump off, that pump absolutely needs to come off, because obviously, they're not going to be able to do what they need to do to manage it. And on the same hand, there's also an admitting physician at my hospital, we'll call her, Dr. Jones. She is a huge advocate for type loans as well. And she has an excellent order set for pharmacy for patients to keep their insulin pumps. So anytime I have a type one patient, and she is not the admitting physician, I message the admitting physician and say please consult with Dr. Jones for this patient's insulin pump orders. And I would say probably 60% of the time it happens. But that's again, only when patients are like alert and oriented enough to tell me like their settings and stuff like that. There have been plenty of instances where a patient tells me that they want to keep their insulin pump, but they have to get in contact with your endocrinologist to find out their settings. And I was like, I've had Omnipod T slim, and Medtronic in my 20 Some years of diabetes. If you don't know how to find the settings in your pump, that's alarming to me. Yeah. And I don't feel comfortable letting you keep your pump if you don't know how to find your settings, right.

Scott Benner 38:25
I wish you wouldn't have said Dr. Jones, by the way, because it made me think of Indiana Jones. And then it made me then it made me think that I wonder if people know that Indiana was the dog in the family. Nevermind. And that's what happened to me while I was listening to you just now. So you're telling me you're telling me that if someone comes in with a complete inability to even understand their device, how are you supposed to believe they know what they're doing? Exactly. Okay. And so they're set up. And they've probably got a rhythm going. And they, you know, they push this button, they say this much for this meal, but they really don't know what's happening is the thing that's been set up for them. And it's running, but they they couldn't be the stewards of it. So this is an interesting problem, because all these problems are multifaceted. I'm going to I'm going to tell you that, you know, the first half hour of this conversation, what I heard was that nurses, people, doctors, and the system are all entities that have multiple bool variables impacting them, yes. And depending on your perspective, like you can go you could go into an ER and be me with my kid. And I'll be able to say that nurse doesn't know anything about diabetes. And I'll be right because I know a lot about it. And then there could be another person that goes into the can't find the settings on their pump who would think that you know a ton about diabetes because you know more than they do. So it's it's varying levels of understanding. Coupled with your perspective, your death desire. And then all these things have to come together over and over again, between you and the nurse, who is also sitting on four other beds and has the pressure of moving people out, holding people who can't leave, but can't go upstairs. And if there is an emergency, abandoning all those other people to get to that emergency, and then on top of that, what you have is that adrenaline, this isn't even the job you wanted. The doctors and asshole, like all the other things that could possibly come with this are impacting you while you're trying to help those four people and three of them probably don't even want to help themselves.

'Mimi' 40:38
Yes, exactly. Okay, there's so many moving parts to being a nurse, being a doctor being a patient, like, it is impossible, like there's no one size fits all, as we all know, like, diabetes is so complex and different from person to person. And like I tell all my co workers, my diabetes is different based on the week of the month, whether I'm on my period, or I'm ovulating or I'm working night shift, or I'm working day shift, everything is different. So if I'm here for like, appendicitis, or I broke my arm, it's gonna be different. Like, I'm not even going to be able to control it. Well, yeah. So why should I expect them to? It's interesting,

Scott Benner 41:19
but you can see the other side of it too, right? Like if I was just an everyday, everyday person, and I have type two diabetes, I'm not doing a great job with it. My a one sees the nines, and I'm having some obvious health issues, metabolic issues and some other things that led me to the emergency room. When I get there. I'm probably hoping you're going to tell me how to keep this from happening again. And you're probably thinking, even if I knew what to tell this person, they wouldn't do it anyway. Or

'Mimi' 41:48
even if we know what to tell this person, we told them and they're still not going to do it anyway. Or

Scott Benner 41:53
even understand at times. Yeah, yeah. The problem is people Yes. But on all sides of the problem, we are having a problem of humanity is what we're having. Yes, we're very stubborn beings. In the past, if you had a mental health concern, you didn't really go to a regular hospital. There were other facilities, we don't really do that anymore. So everybody goes to a centralized place. So there used to be, there'd be a trauma center for trauma, there'd be you know, a regular, like local hospital for, you know, regular old problems, there'd be a mental health facility for mental health problems. These people would mostly be filtered in through EMS, or police so they could take them to the right places. And now everything happens in one spot, and everybody is expected to be able to deal with all of it.

'Mimi' 42:45
So yes and no, okay, there are ambulatory places like you can just walk into a mental health facility. Depending on the type of crisis you're having, they're going to send you to the ER anyway to make sure it's not a medical emergency first. So, like if someone is extremely intoxicated on drugs or alcohol, they can't be in those mental health facilities. Because if they were to withdraw, it would be a medical emergency, and they would be at an inappropriate place. We just had, a lot of people get really bogged down by the mental health patients coming into the ER. But sometimes we find that it's not a mental health crisis, you can have hallucinations because you have a brain tumor, not because you're bipolar or schizophrenic.

Scott Benner 43:33
I say. So you like the idea that they come to a centralized place where everybody where people have like a medical background? Yes,

'Mimi' 43:40
I like it to the extent of medically clearing and then getting them out. As soon as they're medically clear, which doesn't happen. Patients can be medically cleared and then still sit in the ER for 48 to 72 hours before an inpatient bed opens up in a mental health facility.

Scott Benner 43:59
So do we have a lack of facilities or too many people who need them? Both? I never have one of these conversations and feel good when they're over by the way.

'Mimi' 44:08
I know. Yeah. I've

Scott Benner 44:09
never like oh, good answer. I've actually never had anybody give me an answer. I recorded with a seat a CDE the other day, who has type one? And at the end, I said, What do you think the answers are? And they're like, I don't think there's an answer to this problem. I'm like, Oh, great.

'Mimi' 44:25
Yeah, it's really tough too. Because even if there were enough facilities, there wouldn't be enough nurses. So and the nurse shortage is not a shortage of people who want to be nurses. It's a shortage of people who want to be paid appropriately for what we're dealing with.

Scott Benner 44:44
So it's an underpaid. You find it to be an underpaid profession. What's a nurse make?

'Mimi' 44:50
Because I'm anonymous. I started out as it's considered a new grad because I'm fresh out of school despite my years Have Tech experience. I'm still a new grad. Right? I started out at 34. Oh, for an hour, I got a significant lump sum to move as far as I did, and a sign on bonus and housing savings.

Scott Benner 45:15
Oh, okay, slow, slow down for a second. When you were a tech, what did you make an hour?

'Mimi' 45:19
Oh, gosh, around $20 an hour. So

Scott Benner 45:23
about the same age. That's insane. Okay. And then minimum

'Mimi' 45:27
wage where I was living, I did get benefits, but I still had to pay a significant amount out of pocket for, you know, all of the

Scott Benner 45:35
things Yeah. Then you became a nurse, they moved you all the way up to 34. Oh, that Oh, force insulting, by the way, 3404 to be a nurse. And then that was east coast, then you kind of went middle of the country. So the middle of the country would be 3404. That was the day that I received at my old job where I was the tech was, I

'Mimi' 45:55
think $29 Oh,

Scott Benner 45:57
they bumped you up to 29. You said no, I'll go I'm going to take the extra five an hour and go to the move across the country. They also give you a bonus and a moving stipend. Would you tell me what it was?

'Mimi' 46:06
Yeah, so my sign on bonus was $10,000, which is taxed. My relocation bonus was 8000, which is also taxed, right. And then I got a housing stipend of $1,000 a month for nine months, which is also taxed, but still.

Scott Benner 46:21
So they basically gave you 28 $27,000 tax. I'm just gonna knock 30% off of it just for the fun of it here. So okay. And that was to move uproot your entire life versus staying for $29 an hour.

'Mimi' 46:37
With no sign on bonus, no incentive to stay nothing,

Scott Benner 46:42
nothing to get you moving. Do you actually still have some of that money in the bank?

'Mimi' 46:45
Yes. And no, I acquired a pretty significant amount of credit card debt during nursing school because of medical supplies. Because I had to pay rent, which where I was living, I was paying like $2,200 a month for a 600 square foot studio. I actually sold my car and it was like commuting by bike. So I didn't have a car payment. And I was still struggling to make ends meet.

Scott Benner 47:10
So you were working hard and making concessions. And you still had to use credit cards to get through school. Yeah. And then the bonus, you got to move the credit card debt wiped that out, basically.

'Mimi' 47:21
Yeah, that and like, it's expensive to move. The place that I lived in when I first got here, which I actually just move out of, I had to pay first last and a deposit upfront to move it. And then I actually only moved here with what fit and who suitcases and my dog. So the moving like of things was very inexpensive. It was just my flight. Yeah. But yeah, it was like $8,000 upfront to move into where I was living. And that doesn't count furnishing anything. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 47:51
what kind of dog fits into the luggage? He's

'Mimi' 47:55
a miniature Doxon. So he rides in a plane with me, like under the seat in front of me. Okay, that's like, how

Scott Benner 48:00
are we flying with a dog? Okay, that makes sense. Wow. And then you get there. 3404 an hour.

'Mimi' 48:08
Yeah, so that was my, that's my base pay. I've since gotten a raise. Because I've been here, I think it was either a market adjustment or like the annual raise, but the hospital gets, which was a whopping 71 cents. And then there's also shift differentials. So I was hired as night shift. But for my first three months, I was on day shift for orientation. I would work between 24 and 36 hours a week. And then I also had classes. So as a new nurse, you have to do like residency classes, we call them. And it's basically just like learning how to use equipment and like, basically procedures and protocols for different processes. I guess you could say like, there's a whole seminar on, like, blood gases and like our DKA protocol, which is actually I love but a lot of people find very confusing. So there's a whole class for it. And then we have classes for neonatal emergencies trauma, if someone's in cardiac arrest that like process. So there's a ton of classes you have to take right up front when you start as a new grad. So I was doing like 40 hours a week between classes and working at the bedside. And then once I finished all those classes, I was just at 36 hours a week and could pick up as much extra as I wanted. But once I came off orientation on next shift, so it's an additional, I think 460 an hour on night shift. If it's a night shift weekend, I believe it's 760 additional an hour. And then there's we also have like evening shift, so 11am to 11pm 3pm to 3am. That gets a different differential and stuff. So the only time I'm actually making 34 Now 75 is if I work a 7am to 7pm shift which She's not hired for so that's not why are you not making $70,000

Scott Benner 50:03
a year? Even? No. 60

'Mimi' 50:07
I think it's, uh, ah, it might have been 70. Okay, because I looked at my year to date, and that's including all my stipends and stuff, and I was like, around 97.

Scott Benner 50:18
And so and then you're gonna lose about 15% in tax, I'm actually googling this. So in 70,000, you'll lose about 15% in taxes. What's that, like? 10 grand? Yeah. And so, you're gonna, you're gonna walk away with 60 divided by 12. Hold on a second. 5000 a month? How much is your rent?

'Mimi' 50:39
So before when I was getting my stipend, it was 2240 because I decided I wanted a house with a yard for my dog, silly. We're in a cooped up, cooped up apartment before. We're back into an apartment now, but it's a much nicer one way more than 600 square feet.

Scott Benner 50:55
So now I'm paying about 1400 Okay, so you're losing 1400 Off the top for rent. I gotta imagine do you eat food? Right?

'Mimi' 51:04
I do. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 51:05
what do you $400 a month for food?

'Mimi' 51:08
That's what I budget. Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:10
Uh huh. That's what you budget. I heard what you said there. Do you have a car? I do have a car.

'Mimi' 51:14
Is there a payment? Oh, there is a steep payment? Yes. How much? 656 50?

Scott Benner 51:20
Got insurance. What's that? Like? $100 a month for car insurance. 131 30. Gas.

'Mimi' 51:30
I actually don't use a ton of gas.

Scott Benner 51:32
Let's say 100 a month? Yeah. Okay. Electric. Couple 100.

'Mimi' 51:40
Yeah, let's see my utilities. I bought 175 Because most of its incorporated in my 1400 for rent. Okay,

Scott Benner 51:50
so when you are all said and done. You've made what, like two grand left at the end of the month? About? Yeah. Okay. And so you have to work a year of your life to save $25,000. And that's if I get to save it. Yeah, but I'm gonna say you're not really gonna have $25,000 a month at the end of the year. Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, yeah, we should ask people to be nurses is.

'Mimi' 52:17
Exactly. And like, there is a great appeal. I won't even live with this schedule. So keep in mind, that's an income working only three days a week. So I guess my 97 is actually mildly skewed. Because I work a lot of extra to get to that. Not every single week. But like, around Christmas, I worked 120 hours in 10 days, because I couldn't go home to see my family. My boyfriend went home to see his family and like, my friends hear from work. So I was like, I don't want to sit at home on my couch by myself on Christmas. So I'm just going to pick up extra go to work. Yeah, so yeah, I worked a lot of extra once I came off orientation. Summers are like trauma season. And since I was fresh off orientation, I was like, super eager to learn all of the processes, all of the equipment we use, which I now feel feel very comfortable and competent. And like, I am the most fit person to be in those scenarios, which is a great feeling after only being a nurse for a year. Not to like boast member riches here. But like, I feel very comfortable in my ability and my skill. Yeah, what you're doing. Yeah, so a lot of extra got me to 9070. Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:30
a lot of extra to get to that number. So I have to tell you, what strikes me over and over again, while we were just doing that little exercise is that if you're helping four people in a shift, I'm guessing that the hospitals being is billing those four people. And it's incredibly possible that your effort makes more money for the hospital in one day than they pay you in a year. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, like he would probably work for a percentage. Yeah. So

'Mimi' 53:59
I don't want to call it to work around. But the way that people are making more is by leaving, like nursing as a hospital employee and going to an agency. So you can do like local travel or travel nursing and you'll make just about double you.

Scott Benner 54:17
That's insane to me, like why does the hospital just pay their good employees and keep them?

'Mimi' 54:22
No one knows. It's a it's a losing battle. We've been asking this question for years, because even before COVID Travel nurses made significantly more than staff nurses do. And you don't even have to travel. One of the travel nurses that I work with currently. He's been at my hospital for over a year, and travelers contracts are typically like 13 weeks. So he has to take like a week off in between and then he just signed another contract with the same hospital.

Scott Benner 54:50
It's not crazy to say either that if you went to your boss and said, Hey, look, I'm a good employee, pay me more money. Give me double. They'd say no, but you said if you said okay, well I'm gonna leave and Go to a become a travel nurse that they'd hire you back as a travel nurse. Oh, and they do it all the time. I'm glad everything makes sense. Nothing makes everyone jump out the window. We're in trouble. That's all. So, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's not it's not it's a lot. It's a, you know, this is exactly the same when I talk. There's a therapist that comes on Erica, we talked about people's problems. And I this is exactly how I feel at the end of the hour with her to like, oh, just, yeah, it's such a multifaceted issue. Really layers, so many problems with all of it, like healthcare, hospitals, nursing,

'Mimi' 55:42
there's at least 100 Problems per each of those. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:46
that we could sit here and drill down and talk about a lesson. If you're going to become a nurse, maybe you should want to do it. Maybe we can drill down at the doctor sign goat, maybe you can leave your ego aside and actually, you know, stop acting like you're God's gift of the situation. You could look at the institution and say, Hey, why don't you take a little less money and pay all these people so they could actually give people good service? And maybe you make people healthier? The patient's you could say, hey, what if you had a basic understanding of common ideas about health and took care of yourself a little bit? Oh,

'Mimi' 56:18
my gosh, yeah, the lack of knowledge that I didn't understand, that most people had about their body is absolutely insane to me, like, obviously, I've been diabetic for just over 20 years, I had no idea that most people didn't know how to read a nutrition label. One of my friends is a teacher for a like, they call it a nursing program, but it's for high schoolers. So it's a like, tech center type situation where they go there for their senior year of high school and get, you can get a CNA or nursing assistant, you can do cosmetology, you can do diesel mechanic. There's all different types of like, skills you can go into. So she teaches the I'm doing air quotes nursing program there, and one of her students as a type one. So of course, she like called me and was like, Hey, do you drink, like Powerade and Gatorade and stuff regularly? And I was like, no, like, I think this year was the first time in my entire life, I'd had Gatorade that wasn't like the zero or like G two or whatever it's called. Right? And she's like, Yeah, my type one has been drinking it like almost every day. And I asked her if she was like doing insulin for it. And she said, No. So she took the power a bottle and looked at the nutrition label. And she's like, said 36 grams. And I was like, Yeah, and that's only per serving. And there's two servings in that bar, sometimes two and a half servings in the bottle. Yeah. And she was absolutely blown away by that. I'm like, Yeah, that's like, you have to look at the servings. She was like, Well, I never really thought about that. Like, ah, the luxuries of not being a diabetic.

Scott Benner 57:57
You know, I saw somebody eating like nachos. Right? Em from from a, from a from a restaurant. They give you a bowl of queso. It's like a softball size of, of liquid cheese. And I thought that's more liquid cheese and you're supposed to eat and five years. And yeah, no, no. And they're just in there like dip in and eaten and dip and eat. And I'm like, Oh my God, you're gonna die. Like you're asking.

'Mimi' 58:24
Literally, I went to Trader Joe's has probably been a while now. And I got they have a frozen like barbecue teriyaki chicken. And it has a lot of protein and not a lot of fat. And so I was checking out and they're like, Oh, why do you get this over? Like the orange chicken? Like, oh, it's like 20 grams less fat per serving. And they're like, Oh, interesting. I've never even looked at the label. And I was like, Oh my God, because the

Scott Benner 58:49
orange glaze is sugar. And then the your body metabolizes the sugar and makes it and stores it is fat. And yeah, these are not big ideas. So not

'Mimi' 58:58
at all. And it's so like, I just like, I don't know why anything surprises me anymore. Like, especially working in the ER, maybe it's because in the ER, I expect people to not know things. But like out in the real world. I think like, Oh, these people have made it this far. Like, they know basic things. But they don't. Yeah, and It shocks me every time.

Scott Benner 59:21
Yeah, don't stop being shocked. It's about opportunity to learn things. Yes. And it's the stuff that no one talks like people don't talk about this stuff. They just they don't like the makeup baby, you feed it something you can afford. You know, you make a little more money or you don't you you know that's the way your food goes. You're not a nutritionist you've never nobody's ever talked to you about this before. And all of a sudden, healthy just means you know, we this is what we eat here hopefully means like, alive and not having to see a doctor frequently right? It's the same exact problem. As when I say to somebody hey, like how's everyone seeing they go? Oh, it's good. Like I learned in the Beginning of making the podcast not to stop at that, I'd say what is it? What's the number? Because the astonishing a number of people who told me that their agency was good, but then told me it was eight and a half. And I was like, well, good compared to what they'd say won't good compared to where it started where it started. I was like, on 11. Now it's at eight and a half, I'm doing good. And I'm like, No, you're doing better. Words are important. And you know, like, like, You're doing better, you're not doing good. Good is, you know, in the fives. Yeah, pretty goods in the sixes, I need help is in the sevens, eight and a half. It's not, I'm doing pretty good. You know, you know, eight and a half is I'm going to be in this emergency room one day, with, you know, some sort of, and they don't know that they don't know that if you live if a type two, for example, lives with an eight and a half a one see their whole life, that by the time they're in their 50s, they are 100% going to be in a emergency room talking to you. Without

'Mimi' 1:00:53
a doubt, and it's not even likely going to be a diabetes. Crisis. Right? It'll be going to be a secondary problem.

Scott Benner 1:01:02
Renal? Cardiac. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. And

'Mimi' 1:01:07
a little blister on their foot that's now turning black and they can't feel it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:01:11
right. Right. Look at all the stuff that comes along with that, that nobody. You can say nobody teaches you. But you know, when the stuff I know about diabetes, I had to teach myself. And is it they didn't teach you or you weren't willing to learn? And I do want to say, and sometimes people don't have the capacity. I don't mean that in a harsh way. Like, there's some people who just their minds don't work that way. You don't I mean, they're not going to be inquisitive about things they maybe don't have, you know, that kind of desire. It's not I don't think of that as purposeful, by the way, like, that's where I want somebody to step in and do something, right. And it's funny, because in my heart, I want the person that the hospitals step up and go, hey, here are the things you probably don't know about your life and health, except what you're telling me is that even if you did that, you think what you'd get mostly is go to hell give me a pill, I gotta get out of here.

'Mimi' 1:02:00
Exactly. That is exactly right. Like, I am always stunned by people who come to us for help, and then refuse what we're offering, because they read somewhere on the internet that this is a better option. And that's what they want. And we always kind of joke as nurses like, this isn't the drive thru, you don't get to come here and tell us what you want when you're asking for our help. Because if you knew what you needed, and we're capable of getting it, you wouldn't be coming to us for the hair. Like, yeah, this

Scott Benner 1:02:31
is a never ending.

'Mimi' 1:02:33
Yeah, we get traumas that come in all the time. And granted, they might not be the most severe trauma they've ever sustained. But they were transferred to us either from an outside hospital or from seen based on the mechanism of injury. And they decided that they needed a higher level of care of trauma care, which is us. And it's typically with spinal injuries. So this one very specific one I'm thinking of this man was on a trampoline. His two small children were there. I think they were like, five and eight, maybe. And he dove into a shallow pool off of the trampoline, and had temporary paralysis and his kids had to pull him out of the water. Oh, he came to us with a neck brace on me calm see collars, a cervical collar. And he kept nodding yes and no. And it was making me so angry. Because I'm like, if you have a spinal, specifically a cervical spinal fracture, and you keep nodding yes and no, you could be paralyzed forever. And I probably overslept a little bit here, we were over in CAT scan. I told him many times to stop nodding yes and no. I grabbed his cheeks and got really close to his face. And I was like, you have small children at home. I don't want to see you paralyzed because you weren't listening to me. Stop nodding yes and no. And like a tear, just like rolled down his face. And he stopped. And I was like, I'm sorry. I had to say it that way. But we see this all the time. Yeah, you're here for a reason.

Scott Benner 1:04:09
Yeah, it's so funny. It's funny, because I see like both sides have, like you said, like, you know, you're here and you're not going to do the thing. And but that person could easily make the the the argument and a real, very real argument. No one's ever told me that before. I know, you think it's something I should know. But I don't know that thing. And no one's ever said it. So that's where we're at. We're, it's an impasse like, medical people should be telling every person that they intersect the thing that they need to hear. And either that person takes that information and does something with it, or they don't, but you don't have the time for that. So you're going off of what you mostly see. And that's how the people who could be helped get missed. Exactly.

'Mimi' 1:04:51
Yeah. Like he was transferred from another hospital that was letting him like, walk around and like go to the bathroom. And I was like you absolutely will not be getting upright until we have your CT results. They transferred you here because we know more than they know. And we're going to treat you the way that we're supposed to treat you and that I'm sorry is not going to make you very happy. But you have to listen to us. And he was like, Okay, you're right. And I was like, Oh, am I really? So

Scott Benner 1:05:20
maybe what should I ever told me that before I fill up my car with those little packing peanuts, right? That way, if I have an accident, nothing happens to me. And then I never leave the ground floor of my house and get a house with those steps in it. And then I try to stay out of that. And I don't need 17 servings of Gatorade and I tried to stay out of hospital. This is what I'm trying to do this size of melted melted cheese. Ask yourself why does the cheese not coagulate? Yeah. Why? It's liquid? How is it doing that?

'Mimi' 1:05:54
Right? It was solid at one point. Not going back to solid. Like what's happening? Ask yourself what's in it? Yeah, why is it staying liquid like this? Okay, all right. I'm

Scott Benner 1:06:06
done. Good. Thank you. Did I miss them? Did I miss any out of my mind? But this? Why did I think this was a good idea? Why did I think having people on to tell me what was wrong was going to be a great idea. For me. It's bad for my soul. It's

'Mimi' 1:06:19
bad for everyone's thought and our mental health because I can say all of these things until I'm blue in the face and nothing will change. Nothing

Scott Benner 1:06:26
will change. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, then this is for the people who are going to take some sort of control of themselves and their lives and and try to avoid this stuff. Yeah, now, I hope so. Having said this, and I do like to reiterate this every time I can think of if I'm having an actual emergency. I should still go to the hospital, though. Oh,

'Mimi' 1:06:49
absolutely. Yeah. And I don't want to like drag anybody but in our Facebook group. For the podcast. There's people all the time, like questioning certain things like if they should go to the hospital. And more often than not, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, is this even a question? Like, I cannot believe that people would think not to. But I've also worked in other ers where I can absolutely see how going to the ER would be doing a disservice to them. But especially adults in the UK, we are not resilient, like children are like when I was diagnosed, my blood pH was 6.9, which is not survivable, like that is not compatible with life. So if my PH were 6.9, now, I would likely be dead. As a kid, you're much more resilient, you bounce back, your body can compensate a little bit better. But as an adult, if I even like if I'm sick, and even if I don't have ketones, my blood sugar is fine. If I follow up, I get very nervous. Like, okay, if my blood sugar goes low, and I can't keep anything down emergency, if my blood sugar is high, I'm giving myself insulin, it's not coming down. I'm throwing up emergency like, I see that all the time. So I understand I have a different understanding of it. But it is frightening. And like, we are very fragile people like not diabetics, but just humans, like humans are fragile. You don't have those compensatory mechanisms that children have. So if something goes sideways, it can go sideways and stay sideways forever. Like some things you just like, can't come back from. Like, I'm always scared, like, oh, one more like running with DKA kidney failure, or retinopathy. Like there's so many irreversible things that can happen. heart attacks and strokes, especially because we're diabetics. Like, we're very fragile.

Scott Benner 1:08:51
For my money, I like being prepared ahead of time, I have a small group of good doctors that are local to me that we have, you know, become patients of so that when we have certain problems, we're not searching. First of all, we know where to go to get somebody to help those same doctors can be helpful for you, when you're going to emergency situations as well. You'd be surprised that calling your GP who is actually a good person saying hey, here's what's wrong with me, I'm going into the hospital, could you call over there and let them know I'm coming, that actually helps getting to a hospital system where your doctor is affiliated with that helps. There's little things that you can do to be ready. You could also you know, do a little bit of research so that you know how things are handled at certain emergency room situations like what what are they going to do for me if I come in there and DK? How are they going to handle this? What do they know about this? I don't know. I just I like to be as prepared as possible without being a prepper I don't have a truck with a 700 gallon gas tank on it that only pulls fresh water in case zombies come or anything like that. But I do know where I would go if there was a problem, right? And you know, even at that you don't realize you could be Three miles from four hospitals and only one of them's a decent hospital. And you wouldn't know that. You know?

'Mimi' 1:10:06
Yeah, I am always done. There's a few very, very, very small hospitals that are not associated with any large or larger hospitals nearby currently, and the transfer patients to us all the time. And I'm like, It's a miracle, this patient made it to us alive. Like, I didn't even know that this place existed. Until right now they're telling me that this hospital down the street was taking care of this patient, and they're like, knocking on death's door. I'm like, how are they allowed to be a hospital? Like, how have they kept their doors open for this long. And God forbid a patient who doesn't know anything about the area has a medical emergency and goes there, like, it is terrifying to me. Granted, we do have a large house, we have two very large main hospital systems here, that span I believe each of the two systems has at least four emergency rooms and two major hospitals. There's plenty of resources around and if you were visiting the area and you good old er near me, it's not going to take you to that little rinky dink one that scares me, it's going to take you either to my hospital or our neighboring Hospital, which will can provide excellent care. It's astounding.

Scott Benner 1:11:25
I would like to remind people at the end here that you are a human being with all the fragility and that comes with that and so is the person you're going and asking them to help you those people are our people, you're a person, you have limitations, they have limitations, the best thing you can do is know as much about your situation as possible. Advocate for yourself till the very end. Never give in. Don't be mean always push. And at the same time. Remember, you're just asking another person. It's not like Mimi's not a magic fairy. She's a girl wanted to make a little more money. So she became an RN. And then she moved across the country to make $6 more an hour. And she just wants to go home with her dog and not sit on her sofa and be bored. Yeah, and have some grass to run in just like you. Exactly. She's not a wizard, you're not going to a wizard and telling them that you you know, Please grant my wish for me. I'd like to feel better now. So anyway, whatever. I'm sure people are gonna hate me by the time this is over. But I appreciate you doing this very much. Thank you very much.

'Mimi' 1:12:29
Yeah, and honestly, note there like the rinky dink Costco I'm talking about that is not an attack towards their staff at all. It's just like a lack of resources, lack of exposure to a lot of stuff. Like they can be very competent nurses and doctors, but they don't have the exposure to what other nurses and doctors have or the resources to adequately treat these patients. So like, they're not bad providers. They're just in a bad situation. And

Scott Benner 1:12:56
but and once you get there, you're in that situation right along with them. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I appreciate this. Did you enjoy being called Mimi?

'Mimi' 1:13:03
Yeah, I do enjoy being called Me. Me. Alright. Well, if I remember grandma go by

Scott Benner 1:13:08
Mimi. Well, you know, first we gotta get you out of that apartment with just you and that dog. Alright, that's not gonna happen. Yeah.

'Mimi' 1:13:15
Alright, thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. It was good talking to you. You too.

Scott Benner 1:13:26
Arden has been getting her diabetes supplies from us med for three years. You can as well, US med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 My thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode. And for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast. There are links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL. You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. A diabetes diagnosis comes with a lot of new terminology. And that's why I've created the defining diabetes series. These are short episodes where Jenny Smith and I go over all of the terms that you're going to hear living with diabetes, and some of them that you might not hear every day, from the very simple Bolus up to feed on the floor. Don't know the difference between hypo and hyper will explain it to you. These are short episodes. They are not boring. They're fun, and they're informative. It's not just us reading to you out of the dictionary. We take the time to chat about all of these different words. Maybe you don't know what a coup small respiration is. You will when you're done. Ever heard of a Glice See make index and load haven't doesn't matter. You'll know after you listen to the defining diabetes series. Now, how do you find it, you go to juicebox podcast.com up top to the menu and click on defining diabetes, you'll be able to listen right there in your browser. Or you'll see the full list of the episodes and be able to go into an audio app like Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to them at your pace. Download them into your phone, and listen when you can. The defining diabetes series is made up of 51 short episodes that will fast forward your knowledge of diabetes terminology. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of cold wind. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome. Type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

#1145 Parenting: Transition of Care

Scott and Erika talk about how to transfer type 1 management to a child.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1145 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Erica Forsythe is back today Eric and I are going to kind of button up the parenting series with an episode about transitioning care. So we're talking about going from you being the one making all the decisions to handing that off to your child. While you're listening today. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you're interested in learning more about Erica, she's at Erica forsyth.com. How would you like to help people living with type one diabetes and maybe help yourself? T one D exchange.org/juice. box, fill out the survey completely become part of the registry. And just like that, you've helped T one D exchange.org/juice. box now they're looking for US residents who have type one diabetes or are the caregivers of someone with type one. They're looking for everybody, but have a real focus right now on men, men of color, and of course, parents of boys. If you fit the bill, which is pretty much everybody, please reach out T one D exchange.org/juice. Box. completing the survey helps type one diabetes research helps the podcast and it will help you one day two T one D exchange.org/juice box. It takes about 10 minutes and they won't ask you one thing you don't know the answer to this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the insulin pump that my daughter wears Omni pod. Learn more and get started today with the Omni pod dash or the Omni pod five at my link Omni pod.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. When you use my link and place your first order, you're gonna get a welcome kit, a year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs. This is the transition of care handoff episode for the parenting series. Right? Yes. Okay. Do you think this is going to be the last one? Or do you think we're going to add anything else to this?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:23
I think we could probably add more as we think of more ideas or we hear feedback or some more ideas.

Scott Benner 2:31
Let's call this the last one for now. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:35
That sounds good.

Scott Benner 2:37
I get stuck too many times making series and I come out they make these definitive like this is the last one. And then like three weeks later, I'm like here's another one. I apologize. I didn't realize. So anyway, what would you like to talk about today? Okay. Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:52
we're going to continue our conversation of we started in our last episode, overcoming parenting challenges. And we thought there would it would be significant enough to have this episode focused on the transition of care, and have the handoff, so to speak, and talk through some ideas and tips and suggestions. So

Scott Benner 3:16
are you telling me that in your mind transition of care, that handoff is a parenting challenge, but it's so meaty that it didn't we couldn't give it a little bit of space, and that other one it needed is an entire episode of its own?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:29
That's what I'm saying, Scott. Okay.

Scott Benner 3:33
Well, I agree. So let's get going. You want to read through your ideas? Or do you want me to ask you questions? How would you like to? Well, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:40
thought, as I was thinking about this episode, I was I had that vision of a relay race of you know, for runners, but thinking about the first runner to the second runner handing off the baton. And in this analogy, it works. In some ways, it doesn't work in other ways. There is a start line diagnosis, the finish line, we don't have a finish line yet. But I think in this analogy, maybe thinking about this is the finish line everyone both parent and child feeling competent, competent in the management. And in this, when you think about if you've watched a relay race, there is a period of time in which the runner can hand the baton off to the next runner. There's like a there's there's markers. Yes. And also, this analogy doesn't really work because there are no rules right around when this baton when that line in real life should be passed on to your child. But let's just pretend in this scenario, every runner and every team does it differently like that once they pass that first marker line. A runner might hand the baton off immediately to the second runner. Some runners will hold the baton a little bit longer between the first and second runner and then some handed off right before that. Last kind of a marker where you can pass the baton off. And so I think it's important to hold that kind of image as we talk about this, because every family is different when they are handing that baton off every personality of the child and the parent is going to be different, different comfort levels. But we all all families will go through this transition time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 5:22
Do you think that, generally speaking, parents want to do this? Or do you think it's the thing that they eventually realized that they have to do? Or I guess maybe there are a lot of different personality types. In my heart, I've seen, I've seen my wife not want it to end. Like she doesn't want this leg of the race to be done. You know what I mean? And I am in the middle, I'm upset and saddened by it, when when there's a passing of the baton. But at the same time, I see the bigger picture, not that my wife doesn't see the bigger picture. I think it's just emotionally harder for her. But I wonder if there are some people who just don't want that separation? And if there are some people who want it too soon. And I hate to talk like that, but I do. I do sometimes see people that seem like they didn't really jive with parenting. You know what I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:15
Yes, I think I've seen and heard and read all different types of be their parents are, as you're saying, maybe wanting it too soon. But maybe that's because the child is really demonstrating independence. But I also hear a lot of parents talk about the guilt, like if your child is diagnosed younger, you are managing it as the caregiver. But then some parents feel guilty that they know eventually, it will need to be passed on to their child. So I think it really comes with as we talked about it so many different layers of emotions. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:52
because it runs that gamut from, you know, basically saying, You're old enough do it yourself, which I've heard said at ages that it seemed, seems too young to me. And then there are some people like you said, who were just there, they are really helicoptering and they're not letting go. And And where does that happen? So it's much more about, it's the balance, right? It's the balance of your comfort and their ability. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. I think the caveat here, that makes this difficult is the expectation for outcome. So if you don't know how I can explain this, then I'm gonna get out of your way and let you talk. But But what I, what I see happen so often with people with type one, especially for parents, for kids, is that they don't know all the time the successes that they could be having, right, they might get started with a doctor who tells them, Oh, your eight is a great a one, C, and then they get stuck there. And they don't think of it or they you know, they they cling to that. If it goes to 300 and comes back down, it's fine. Like that kind of stuff. Now, suddenly, that kind of management is what they think is normal. And they're not putting that much effort into it. Because nobody's given them any tools. And they figure the kid can do this. Like it does count these cards up, push the buttons, they get high, they come down, they get low, they drink juice, if they're low, that's the end of it, they're not actually focused on quality health, probably because nobody's told them how to accomplish it. So I bring this up, because I've had so many conversations with people in their mid 20s. Later 20s on up, that will tell me stories about like, oh, you know, I was 13. So I was old enough. And, you know, when I was 18, when I was diagnosed, so I was an adult, like, I don't know, like, that's a lot for a younger person to do. And the parents sometimes unknowingly even are just like, well, here, you're doing a good job at it, you're pushing the button when you're supposed to, and they don't even look at the outcome and then that kids off on a on the wrong path. Anyway, I've seen a lot of that. That's what always pops in my mind. First, when we talk about transition.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:01
How the management starts, has an effect on the transition, obviously, yeah. And I think it's also important to note too, when you are newly diagnosed, I know we're talking about transition of care. I think the one of the things I was going to mention later on, but I can say it now is that a 12 year old, who's diagnosed as a 12 year old may act and look and function very differently in their management versus a 12 year old who was diagnosed at age two, and, and might be just thriving and managing independently because they've got 10 years under their belt.

Scott Benner 9:38
They've got more time in the simulator, right? Yes, they're doing Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:42
And in the beginning. Yes, you might go out of the gates with, you know, either not the right education or not really knowing having the tools, and you're overwhelmed with all of the things and the grief and the processing. But there's also still hope for the parent to learn and read remembering as the parent who is then as you're transitioning the care that you had a period of time of grieving of learning. And as you hand that off to your child, they might be going through that too. Even if you're like, 10 years into

Scott Benner 10:13
it. Yeah, I was just gonna say it doesn't matter. Maybe if you're at this for a long time, you've still been there helping or maybe doing all of it or most of it, now, suddenly, you're giving it to them, it's a new burden for them. Mm

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:25
hmm. Yes, to expect that, that they might have that an emotional response to it, even if they if even if you feel like they are ready. Sure.

Scott Benner 10:35
Oh, no. And they could they could be ready and still have that response? 100% Yeah, no, for sure. Wow, this is a lot, honestly. So like, go ahead, let's go through what you have here on our notes, and we'll pick through a little bit. In 2015, I needed support to start making this podcast and Omni pod was there. They bought my first ad, in a year when the entire podcast got as many downloads as it probably got today. Um, the pod was there to support the show. And they have been every year for nine seasons. I want to thank them very much. And I want to ask you to check them out at Omni pod.com/juicebox. There, you'll find out all about Omni pod five and Omni pod dash, you'll figure out why a tubeless insulin pump is probably right for you. And there are links to get started. Everything's right there at Omni pod.com/juice box. My daughter has been wearing an omni pod tubeless insulin pump since she was four years old, and she's about to turn 20. It has been a friend to us. And I believe it would be a friend to you, Omni pod.com/juice box. And of course, taking care of your health isn't always easy, but it should at least be simple. That's why for the last three years, I've been drinking ag one every day, no exceptions. It's just one scoop mixed in water once a day every day, and it makes me feel energized and focused. That's because each serving of ag one delivers my daily dose of vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics and more. It's a powerful, healthy habit that's also powerfully simple. Before I was taking he wanted to get that brain fog in the middle of the day, and I just couldn't seem to get on top of it. But now that doesn't happen anymore. By starting my day with ag one I found focus and a renewed ability to perform at my highest level all day long. Drink ag one.com/juice box when you use that link, you're supporting the production of the Juicebox Podcast. I drink age you want in the morning, but you could use it as a coffee replacement before workout or in your smoothie. If there's one product I had to recommend to elevate your health, it's a G one. And that's why I've partnered with them for so long. So if you want to take ownership of your health, start with ag one try ag one and get a free one year supply of vitamin d3 k two and five free ag one travel packs with your first purchase exclusively at drink a G one.com/juice. Box. That's drink ag one.com/juice box, check it

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:09
out. Okay. Yes, emphasizing just like your parenting style, just like we've talked about attachment. We've talked about so many different things that it's really important as you're entering this stage of wondering should I should my child be taking on more? Is my child ready? Am I ready to focus in on your family? I think we it's really easy, particularly you know, when you're online comparing. And so seeing your peers, your caregiver peers, you yourself as a type one looking around saying, Well, gosh, my friend can do it. Why can I or as a caregiver, wow, that that kid is doing it. So just being really in tune with. Every family is different, and that's okay. And there's no hard and fast rule about when this should all happen. I think there are there are certain human you think about like milestones of your child like when should they learn how to brush their teeth on their own? When should they learn how to dress like there are some normal developmental milestones that your child should be hitting. This one, we often think about, like teenage years getting ready for you know, in high school going off to college is usually about the time. But again, your eight year old might be managing perfectly. So

Scott Benner 14:29
there's little things that I've done along the way. You know, Arden's 19. Now she's almost 20. But little little things like I talk out loud when I'm doing diabetes stuff with a younger person. Hey, you're about to eat. Now. That plate looks like wow, you know what I think I think the role is 25. And let's not forget there's some protein in that burger. So let's just throw in a couple more there and then these fries and there's fat in the fries, you're gonna get higher later. So I'm going to put this in here and then a little later I'm going to do that or I'm going to do a square wave Bolus or an extendable Whatever you call it, something like that, I'm gonna tell the algorithm, you know, whatever, whatever your management style is. So she hears it over and over and over again, Arden counts carbs, exactly like I do, we have never spoken about it directly. Like we look at a plate, she's always a couple carbs heavier than I am even. And so we're right in line. But that's just because I just would voice it. I wouldn't tell her. Here, watch how I'm doing this. It was never instructional it was just happening in front of her so that she'd pick it up as time went on. Same thing with filming stuff and changing things, I would just talk her through it like, Oh, we're gonna take this off now, because this is peeling on the corner. And so that one day, she'll seal peeling on the corner, and she'll think, oh, that shouldn't do that. Like, you know, I just think that's the way to go. But as to the age, I guess I'll save till the end how I did it. But it's tough to put a parent in charge of a decision like that, because like you said, you are knowingly given the kids something to do for the rest of their life, I've had that thought on my own, like, Oh, when I pass the baton completely. It's on her, like, I'm done, almost, you know, and that feels terrible. Like, I don't want that for her, it's different than go pay your rent, or buy your own damn cell phone like that, you know, like something like that. It's much different than that. And it can stop you. But I also know that there are some parenting styles that will allow that to completely slow down the process, if not grind it to a halt. And there are some parenting styles that will say like, you know, throw them out of the nest here and see if they can fly. I always said to my wife when she's defending our kids too much. I always go. Are you their attorney?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:43
Oh, I bet she really likes that. She's

Scott Benner 16:45
thrilled with that one. Yeah. So oh, she loves it when I say that. But there are times where I'm like, You're defending them? You're not thinking about them? And that's, you know, I don't know. Anyway, keep going. Sorry.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:59
Yes, it's the question is, you know, when I think it's we're trying to kind of define, but it's, you can't really define it, you know, when does this transition happen? Yeah. And I think it's partially yet maybe starting with age and stage and comfort of management. But also, I think, if you're like waiting for this moment of like, okay, I think my kid can do it now. That there might not be this, you know, aha moments. And so starting slowly, like you're you were demonstrating, you know, verbalizing what you're doing. They might be asking, you know, some kids, and a lot of, you know, teams I work with, they want more of that independence and freedom, freedom, really in autonomy with their life in general, because that's their developmental stage. But and then they want that in their diabetes. So as you're hearing your child ask, and or kind of wondering, maybe they should start to have more independence in their, in their management, checking in, okay, why, why am I resisting this as a caregiver? Am I fearful of relinquishing control? Is there grief in that process? Like you said, there's like a sadness. And that's all really normal to say, Oh, this is really hard. I need to grieve this.

Scott Benner 18:16
I also think it's possible that grief comes out in different ways. It's not as easy as they look sad. It could be rebellion in little ways, like just not doing it. Forgetting putting it off, yelling about it a little bit. I'm just going over the things that I've seen from Martin over the

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:34
years. Yes, yes. You know,

Scott Benner 18:37
I think you would listen to this podcast and think, Oh, this is amazing. That guy's daughter's got an agency and the high fives and I think right now, it might be again, I think it's five nine right now. And it's not a lot of effort. And you know, they know what they're doing, etc. But that's hard fought, like getting to that point. Took a lot of a lot of time. And it wasn't, it wasn't because Arden was like this simple kid who just loved it, like she's been on a couple of times. So I think people recognize that she's not that kid who's like, Oh, my God, daddy diabetes, I'll do it. That's not where she came from. Like, and I know, you're talking about that, that specific, like style of art, the way kids brains work, maybe. But I've also heard from adults who will say I was precocious as a child, and I was like, Let me have it. And they're like, I didn't really know what I was doing. But as soon as I said, Let me have it. My mom disconnected. That gets sent to me a lot. Like they just shut off. And there I've also heard from people who asked for the control from their parents, but not because they thought they were ready for it, but because they did not want to be involved with their parents about it. Yes, and that's a hard I mean, as you're sitting there, listen to this. This is a hard pill to swallow. Like, you know what I mean? Yes, imagine, you know, I'm sitting here I'm thinking what if my kid was like, I do not want to be involved with you. And so

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:56
they want to they want to cut off completely and do They're on thing. And that would include, you know, can can mom or dad follow me on the follow?

Scott Benner 20:08
That's a non starter for me. Yeah. Anybody who wants help Going to college is is, is getting fouled on their Dexcom that there's a simple rule for me. That's how I get paid back. What happens though Erica, though, when the kid wants the autonomy, but they really, they don't really want to do it, they just want to shut you out. I mean, you grew up with diabetes in a different time, right? You forge some diabetes logs in your in your day? Yes. So what happens when they say I got it, I got it, I got it. But on the other side, the agency is up and up and up.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:38
I think that's going back to okay, if if your child is saying I want to manage this, I want to be more independent. I think if you are if you have that parent child relationship, to say, Okay, we are going to do this on a trial period, you have to earn it, like you have to earn the right to stay out later for curfew, you have to earn the right to drive or whatever other you know, stipulations you have to earn that trust, they have to you have to give them the opportunity to to earn it and then they have to prove it and continue that cycle.

Scott Benner 21:15
I find some of the hardest blending here comes because what we're talking about is not apples to apples, and you say like, Hey, listen, if you want to drive, you have to take the safety course first. Right? Right. But because diabetes is a safety issue, it's a safety issue. It's a health issue, but then it's also a personal issue. And it's an autonomy issue. And it's things you're not even thinking about which we've covered in some episodes. But you know, what's the most outlandish example I can think of, oh, if you're the child, if your child is young right now, and has type one diabetes, you're not thinking about the day that their blood sugar goes up when they're masturbating, and you come knocking on their door, and they're like, Get away from me like, like, there's that is going to happen like that. There are so many, like, human things that are going on with all of us. But now you're monitoring them. I don't think any human in history of humans has felt good being monitored. And so you're right. It's not it's not a human trait to just go Yeah, sure. subjugate me, because that's what it's gonna feel like, though, as they start getting older and older. So what the hell do you do? I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:26
was even I noticed that, like, it's such an interesting thought around being a teen now being followed. Multiple people know your blood sugar at all times. Some people use lifescan, 360, or live 360. Where are you? All right. You know, where you are. As a parent, you know, your child is all the time you're being constantly monitored. That raises anxiety levels, I imagine most of the time for one or the other. Do

Scott Benner 22:54
you think people are really stalking their kids? I know, I can find my kids phones, but I don't. I did. Once when Cole moved away the first time first job, I, oh, my God, I want on his first day of work. He was driving through Atlanta to go to work. And I knew he was leaving. And it got in my head. I wonder if he's on time. And I opened up my phone, and I could see that he was driving. And then I got very melancholy and watched him drive. I've watched the little stupid icon drive the entire route through Atlanta. Alright, I'm sorry. Oh, God, I hope he never hears that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:32
But does he did he make it on time?

Scott Benner 23:34
I don't remember that part. I just remember thinking like, like, if the car keeps moving, he's alive. Like is how it felt? You know what I mean? And so, and I don't know why I feel like he's a great driver, who's 23. Anyway, but do you think some people are always looking? I guess they are right. And then the kid knows that. Because you know, people say, like, I saw you went here and look at my phone, and then then you're feeling judged about every decision you make that impacts your blood sugar. Got it?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:04
Yeah. And while all of this data and technology increases, support, you know, safety and hopefully reduces long term complications and the risks of lows. I'm talking about the follow up, but also even the follow up, you know, find my and live 360 Those are all great things, but I think as caregivers that just will raise anxiety and and as a teen I think having these types of conversations to have an understanding of like, okay, can you if you are going to follow my app and if that is a non negotiable if you're going to follow me on on the decks or whatever other CGM. Can we not talk about it constantly. I think I'm sorry, we're kind of going back and forth here. But as like the if the child is wanting that independence, and you're saying okay, let's do a trial period of Okay, so you're but I'm still going to follow you. It's your then maybe the freedom in that 24 hour period is you aren't saying okay, your your rising 50 points, correct? Correct. Correct. Or you're going low. I mean, obviously, there's, maybe you have a, an emergency, if you're going to such and such a number to arrow down, we're gonna do something. But everything else,

Scott Benner 25:22
you gotta have to let go a little bit, just like, Oh, yeah. So I've learned to do that. Over the years where if Arden's blood sugar gets above where I think it should be where I know, like, I'm looking at them, like, we could fix this in two seconds. But she's in class, and she's not thinking about it right now. Like, what's the last thing in the world she wants is a text from me that says, hey, you bump your blood sugar down a little bit. I do save it for moments when I think it's a big deal. You know, safety moments are one thing, but I also think of high blood sugars as safety as well. You know, if a couple of hours go by, and she's one, I don't want people laughing at me. If she's like, 150, or 160, like for a couple of hours, Arcus like, Oh, my God, oh, my god. I'll say to her, Hey, like, you know, is that algorithm suggesting any insulin? Because give it, you know, and, and we've come to a place, it's okay. Now, like, I don't say too much. And she accepts it when I say it. Like, it's the I think I've demonstrated the value of my words, by having an economy of them, if that makes sense. Yes, yeah. And I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:34
think before going back to the initial stages of your child is wanting to be independent. And I think going back to your question of, is your child wanting to be independent? Because they don't want to be in a relationship with you? I mean, I think that's that can happen for a lot of teenagers for a season? Or are they wanting to take care of their diabetes by themselves? Because they feel like they can? I honestly don't know if that really matters in the beginning. Because they're wanting that independence. Yeah. And to say, okay, here are the boundaries, let's give it a try for six hours, 20, whatever, whatever our amount that you both agree on, and then have that okay, when can I, as a parent, suggest, you know, we have the safety boundaries or safety protocols? And where are you comfortable with? And maybe 24 hours? You guys agreed to do nothing? I don't I don't know. It depends on what you want. I think it's important to listen to your team in those initial requests. I'm saying team, but it could be younger. Anybody? Yeah. Yeah, Arden

Scott Benner 27:38
and I have a shorthand, where if she just ignores something completely, or she really screws, the pooch, somehow, then all of our niceties go out the window. And she's accepting of that, too. Like, I will sometimes be like, you know, so I'll see that her schedule has her in class all night, right. And I can see her pump has kind of 15 units left at it. And I look and I go, she's going to try to get out, go through class and come out of class. Without changing the pump. She's gonna want to do it afterwards, right? And I'll say, maybe, hey, listen, I think you might save yourself a lot of trouble here by changing your pump in the afternoon. And then she doesn't do it. And then the night comes along, and I'm now seeing there's a unit left in the pump. I'm like, Hey, now's the time, we're gonna go change the pump, like no more, I'm going to try to make it I'm going to do like, it's over now. Like, you're not going to be without insulin, like like now. And then she'll go hard, or I'll do it. Or like, the other day, I sent her a text and I said, I need just to change your insulin sensitivity. By one point, make it one point weaker overnight, because you're getting these little lows overnight, and I think this is gonna fix it. I mean, she's using Iaps right now. But I just wanted to just adjust the tiniest bit. So the next night when I was woken up in the middle of the night and had to text her. I was like, she didn't make that change. But it didn't say anything, then because it was three o'clock in the morning. And that would have been ridiculous. And I waited till the next night, which was last night. And we were actually sitting and talking about something else. She was showing me something she was working on. And at the end, I said, Hey, how did it go change in your insulin sensitivity the other day? And she goes, it went great. Then she smiled, and I went, you didn't do it, right? Just I did not. And I was like, Okay, I said, Well, can you do it now for me, please? Just while I'm just getting ready to jump out, I'm going over this lab and I'm gonna do some drawing with somebody. And I was like, That's great change in sensitivity. That's it because it was like late night, Friday night, and I was like, it's going to your thing's going to switch to 11pm and then I'm going to be up at 3am If you don't make this change, and she's like, okay, okay, okay. I'll do it. And I wouldn't do it now. And she's, I can't I'm rushing out send me a text and I went, come on Arden and she goes if you text me I'll do it. I was like Okay, so I sent her a text now, we'll wait another night and see what happens. And then I'll ask her if she did it again. And that might throw a lot of people be like, Oh my God, that's so much like just turn the dial kid. But that's me trying to do what you're talking about. Let her be your own person. Not forced things in though I mean, she's not like, she her blood sugar is not 20 overnight, like, it's like dipping under 70, you know, and I'm like trying to make a little adjustment to it. I honestly think that most of what we're talking about is alleviated, or at least made much easier. If you go to the Pro Tip series and learn how to use insulin. I know that that might be sounds like me trying to get people to listen to the podcast, but I 100% think that if you are making decisions that are ending the way you expect, then it's a lot easier to say to the kid like, hey, go ahead, give it a shot. I know that, you know, one plus one equals two, like we're good. I think a lot of the concern comes when people don't know what they're doing. And they're like, oh, I don't know what, you know, the kids high all the time. They're low all the time. They you know, that kind of stuff is scary and dangerous. And isn't that the place where you have to put your foot down no matter? What, if they're high? I mean, yeah, I mean, if we're like just ignoring thing, like, you know, if a day turns into a week, turns into a month turns into a year. And the next thing you know, you look up into kids, a one says 10. And they're going I can do it? They can't. Right. So what do you do there?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:27
I know, that happens that that situation is out there. And I know, it's so, so heartbreaking and painful. And so you know, as a caregiver, you experienced such a sense of powerlessness, and also really grief because your child is demanding. You've Allah and you've given and they're now they're 20, and they're don't know how to manage, I would then attribute that to a bigger issue, right? Is the child is that now your child is an adult or whatever age? Obviously having an emotional response, a lot of feeling with the diabetes, it's not. And I would also look at, you know, how are they functioning and other areas of their life? Are they thriving in every area? And they just aren't don't really know how to manage their diabetes? Or are they really struggling across the board I would be looking at is there a lot of baby depression, anger, trauma around having the diabetes that maybe hasn't really been properly addressed? And so it just feels easier in the moment to ignore it.

Scott Benner 32:34
I think my my quandary is, I'm a tough love person, like, generally speaking. But if tough love means you're going to, like lose your eyesight when you're 35. Then what do I do? Like, do you mean like the sink or swim comes to mind, but it's such a, it's not like, it's not like I said, go to college, and you said, I want to work at McDonald's. And I was like, sink or swim. Like, you know what it means like, you'll still you'll have a job, you'll be working in McDonald's, and you'll probably buy, there's jobs pay pretty great at this point, you're probably doing fantastic. But, but this is a different thing. Like in my mind. You know, if you don't, I have to say this, the harder decisions that I've made about transitioning ordens diabetes over the years, have always been fueled in the back of my head by the idea that I really only have like, till she's 22 to get it accomplished. Right? Like I can hold on 1819 20. Like, you know, like, I'm paying for college, like pay attention. Like, you know what I mean? Like that kind of stuff. But after that she's gone. Or whatever I gave her and whatever she decides to do is the only thing she's going to do. I mean, I've seen adults, adults who are parents of children with diabetes, and their kids have gotten older, and their kids cut them off from knowing about their blood sugar's and it's heart wrenching to them, because they assume that they're not okay. Because if they were okay, they would tell me they were. So they're not. That's why we're not talking about it. And then you worry for the rest of your life. Eric, I don't want to worry for the rest of my life. I just want a couple more years left. Just want to relax. It's a bigger that it's a bigger problem. It's not it's very much unlike all the other parenting issues that come up with children. And it's why you see so much hand wringing about it online. And And isn't it fascinating how it hits people right away? Like if their kids are two years old? They're already worried about it. Yes, yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:35
Thinking Yes. About the independence about their next stages of life, adulthood, you know, children. Yeah, it's I know, it's easy and painful to go there. And you mentioned worry, are you going to worry the rest of your life and, you know, I haven't personally launched my own children. But I think as going through that, those stages myself I think there's a sense of knowing that your parents trust you. They've done what they've could. And they are watching you. And that's that. And it's, it's hard.

Scott Benner 35:13
I think for the great many of us, this is what's going to happen, and it's going to be okay. I really do believe that I genuinely think for most people, it's going to be okay. But there are plenty of people listening right now. They're like, look, my kid is a mess, you know, and they have diabetes, and they show no interest in it whatsoever. And I don't see how that's going to change. Those people are in a they, gosh, it almost makes you feel like they have a child that they're never going to completely be able to separate. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:41
And I know that that can happen. And there's often you know, this sense of, is it too late to help my teen child adult child take responsibility. And, you know, I don't want to say sometimes maybe it is at some point too late. And then they as adults, they are going to have to figure out how to accept, grieve, accept, manage independently. And I don't know, there isn't like an exact timeframe. But I know that that that can happen. And that's a really, really challenging place to be as a parent,

Scott Benner 36:15
through a lot of our conversations. I'm always struck by the kind of core idea that it seems like it's impossible to make somebody care about something they don't care about. Yes. It just really just seems like there's no amount of teaching or trying or showing, that can just change someone off of something that they don't find important. It's one of those like human things, that eats, like inside of my chest, I think about it all the time. Like, you know, because of kind of what I do for a living honestly, like, there are plenty of people who will say things to me, like, I don't learn well by listening. And I'm like, so why I'm like, like, you're telling me that, like, it's hard for you to listen to a podcast, I understand that some people don't learn well, by listening. But you're also saying, on the other hand, my agency is nine, and I'm really in trouble. And I want to do something. And I've heard that you have this thing that helps people and I go Yeah, listen to these 25 episodes, I think you'll be okay. Oh, I have trouble listening to things. Well, okay. And then I try another way to explain to him like, well, I have transcripts, it's a lot of reading, I'm like, No, okay. You know, like, like, in that same way with kids, like, you can tell them something 1000 times, and if it's not something that they jive with, it's not something they jive with, but then it's this thing, and then what's coming next is really coming, you're not going to avoid it, that's for sure. You can't wish it away, you can't put your head down. And at the same time, as I'm being a bummer, I really do want to say I think for the grand majority of you, it's probably going to be okay. You know, if someone came into your office and had a kid who just like was a wall didn't care wasn't doing anything. Would you think that something like that I let pump would be a good midway point like, hey, look, this pump just, you know, it's only going to keep your agency in the sevens, but all you have to do is tell it it's breakfast, lunch or dinner? Small, medium or big? That would be a good idea in that situation, don't

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:16
you think? Yes, yeah. Yes. If, you know, obviously, if the if that child is open to having the pump on them, but I think that would be a wonderful alternative than either, you know, not injecting or not, you know, giving the carbs or whatever it is, I think that's a really nice option for people to really minimize, or just reduce the amount of decision making an action you have to do. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a I haven't read a ton. But I know I hearing more and more people start to use the pump that I love pump,

Scott Benner 38:50
I mean, I let pump is they're saying in the sevens, I'm saying, if you're going to ignore your diabetes, you're going to be in the nines and 10s 1112 13. Like, I mean, just take the seven and don't know what you're like, there's got to be a point I'm not saying the eyelets give up. But in a situation like that, you know, stop thinking you're gonna get down the sixes or the fives and just go with healthy and, you know, and, and happy to, you know, at some point, it's not, it's not your life to live. Obviously, it's a hard thing to say, right? It's not your life to live. But the thing that I would always be concerned about is, is the child decision making process being impacted by these lower higher or vacillating blood sugars? Like maybe you're not really talking to all of them? You know what I mean? If their blood sugars are bouncing all over the place too.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:41
And yes, like how can they be in a grounded place to say, okay, isn't ready to take it on or I don't want to take it on if they aren't feeling good, physically, and emotionally.

Scott Benner 39:54
Okay, is it fair to say that having a really high blood sugar for a long time can make you feel foggy? Yes. right is that is it akin maybe to being up for like 20 hours straight and being exhausted, but trying to keep going or something like that like, is that when you'd ask your kid about a thing? Like, do you know they mean like, right? But if their blood sugars are high all day, and you're like, You got to take care of this on your own, you're not getting the full capacity of their brain back, you know? And even bouncing blood sugars. I don't know, if everybody realizes that going low and high and low and high over and over again, we have a whole episode about it. I think it's called altered mind about how vacillating lower or higher blood sugars change your ability to think and perceive things. So 100%?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:36
And it's yeah, it's super fatiguing. You feel very lethargic,

Scott Benner 40:41
I guess my point is, is that I really do think if you understand diabetes, even a little bit, and you've got some stability, most of your kids like Eric has been saying through this whole thing, there's going to be a certain time for them. And you'll see it right, you'll you'll hold that baton out. And you'll feel well, it's time to let go. And just make sure you're not the one who's screwing up the transfer.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:04
Or holding on too tight. If they're ready. Yeah, because it

Scott Benner 41:06
falls on the ground, everybody kicks it, and then somebody falls in those little shorts. And it's very painful.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:12
Yes, and I think in that if you are fearful of letting go as the parent, you know, is and you truly feel like you're you have, you know you're competent in the management, your child is learning and understanding it, but you just can't quite let go. And that happens, right? Because you're fearful. And there's you want to protect your child? And does this feel like you're not protecting your child by letting go of the baton? I think going back to basic reality checking up, okay, we have the app when he knows how to correct he has his snacks, all the people know around him, like really doing the basic reality checking of because the fear is, you know, I don't want my kid to go low and have a seizure die. And I don't want him to have long term complications, right? Those are I mean, that's what we're talking about when when we're when we're boiling it down. Yeah, that's what we're talking about, right. And so really, and having to remind yourself, write it down, pin it up on your mirror, but if it's the, you know, when it's the child who's not wanting to hold on, or wanting to rip it out of your hands, I think just going back to this is like these are logistics, these are management styles and tools. And I think having the understanding, knowing how to do it is really significant and important in this process. But also reminding yourself, there's so many emotions involved. And is it a matter of acceptance, has your child not truly accepted it? Here, that's okay. Give them that give them the skills, the tools, the support to do that, in addition to the logistical management,

Scott Benner 42:47
right. And I'll just say if you happen to be a person who is just disconnected from this, and, you know, I don't think anybody would probably admit this out loud. But if in the back of your head, you're thinking, I can't wait for this to be over. And for this to get off of me and beyond somebody else, at least do them the favor of teaching them how to take care of themselves well, before you before you do that. And I even understand that I'm not judging anybody. But you know, if it's too much for you, as the parent, offloading it, and hoping they figure it out, I mean, you couldn't figure it out, right? So what are the odds, take them somewhere to a doctor, let them listen to podcasts, like do something like try to get them to a better place, don't just set them out on their own, and say, I don't know, walk West, you'll find it, you know, because that's, that's not gonna work out. You're also this conversation is reminding me that Arden has been back at college for a week now. And I have to send her the text that says, Please refill your vitamins. And if you haven't been taking your vitamins, please start taking your vitamins. I only asked her to take like two. And I'm like, just take these two vitamins. She's like, I will, I will. But the last time she came home with her little vitamin thing. And I she was unpacking and we were helping her on pack and I was like, This is how I left it when I left it with you last time. And she's like, I didn't take those. So I was like, oh, Arden so and she's 20 in easy to get along with. So 1920 years old, she's easy to get along with. And those vitamins sit right next to her bed. They're staring at her. I think it's an act of will not I think it's probably more work not to take the vitamins than it would be to just take them. But I do wonder if sometimes if that's not a little bit of trying to find control, it's something don't you think?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:39
Having control or just feeling maybe also loaded down with everything else and just like I can't I can't open the container and pop the pills because it just is one more thing and I get to choose. But yeah, having that sense of like power control of what I can and can't do and that's that's normal and And maybe, if that's the one thing she's choosing not to do, maybe that's, that's okay. But I know you want her to take, you're like, No, she needs to take vitamin

Scott Benner 45:10
D to be high enough. That's all. Vitamin D, little bit of magnesium oxide. That's all I'm looking for it not a ton of facts. I'll tell you right now, what you're making me think of. If you have sent one of those kids off into the world, that's not doing a good job for themselves. And they're partnered up with somebody, I don't know that that's a terrible way to attack this, which is maybe go to the partner and say, hey, look, this is none of my business, they're going to be definitely pissed if they know I came to you about this, but there's some certain things they're supposed to be doing. And, you know, if you can find a way to learn about it a little bit, and just over, you know, just look over their shoulder once in a while and see if this is happening, you're going to be helping them. I know, that's probably not a good thing to bring up like, psychologically, but it popped in my head. Because the only thing that I've ever seen change a person is the desire to do it for somebody else or some other thing. That's the only thing that I have consistently seen work in humans. Right? I'll do it. I won't do it for me. I'll do it for an unborn baby. I'll do it for the idea that we're going to get pregnant. I will do it because I looked over at my kid one day and realized, oh, hell, that kid needs me to pay for stuff for the next 20 years. I'll bring my a onesie down. Like that's the only time I see it. I talked to so many adult type ones. I just started using a pump last year. I'm like, why? Just last year? Oh, you know, my daughter was diagnosed, she got on a pump. And she didn't want to get on it. So I did it too. So she would be and I'm like going, how's it going for you? Oh, I should have done it years ago. You know, like, so? Those are two things I know for sure about people, it's you can't make somebody do something they don't want to do. And the only thing I've seen change people's minds is the desire to do something for another person. Love is actually the thing that I that I would say if I had to narrow down to one thing. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:59
change is hard. And finding the motivation to change is even harder. And it may be it is just that sense of love for somebody else. To make the changes for yourself to be there for them. Yeah, it is.

Scott Benner 47:15
existentially does that mean that I don't love myself enough to do it? Is that what Freud would say? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:21
but yeah, yes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 47:25
But does that even is that true? of everybody? Like do people? Is my daughter not taking your vitamins? Cuz she doesn't love herself enough? No. Yeah. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:36
I think it would be hard. I wouldn't make that like as a tried and true statement. I think there's so many there's so many layers to why, like, why am I not taking care of myself or my diabetes? Is it because I don't love myself? Or maybe it's just because I hate the diabetes, but I love everything else about myself. You're

Scott Benner 47:55
punishing the thing. And it's interesting. It's all very interesting. Anyway, did we cover everything? I you put a nice note in here about something that I've said in the past, and we never got to it. So what about the college? Yeah, you know, about the laying breadcrumbs? I said that in front of you one time and you loved it enough to write it down? You did? Yeah. Is it just because I said I leave bread crumbs for art and defined? Yes. Yeah, like ideas of, you know, I just I say things out loud. And I'm like, Cool. She follows that along. I'll drop it off on later and try to keep her going. But yeah, your point about college, we didn't get to it though. Let's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:32
just say it's not an ideal situation, and your child is wanting to independence, they're going off to college. They're still figuring out how to manage to have maybe one non negotiable around the management piece that their roommate, the floor resident are a person. Anyone else that's kind of in a consistent circle, have your child that they know that that your child has type one they know where the glucagon is for emergency, right? Because your child can do everything independently except for if they're unconscious. Right. I think that's a really important non negotiable for this is like for the child who's leaving, obviously the house for college. Even that might be challenging, right to get to an understanding and agreement to but the hope is that you know, you you want your child to live. Yeah, survive. Arden

Scott Benner 49:25
was very amenable to that. Two of her three roommates follow her on Dexcom they only have the 55 alarm set. So the earth the urgent alarm is the only alarm it's at Arden does not reach 55 with any, you know, reasonable, you know, on any reasonable schedule. So that's there is an emergency. And have we talked about the glucagon fire drills they do? No, I must have talked about it another episode. Oh my gosh. So they do fire drills where they make art and pretend to be having a seizure, and then they run around and get her Chivo type of pen and stuff like that. And they go through the steps of everything before they do it. They are laughing about it while they're doing it to be clear, yeah, these four girls, that was it. So they are just like in that was the girls idea. Like the one day the girls came in, and like we need to, like, tell us this again. Like what is this? You know, because we talked about it like the first try to imagine the first day they moved into college. We took all the girls out to dinner. And we were like, look, you know, a couple of things about art. And she's explained to you. And you know, here's the key imagine you're 18 you're probably like, oh, what I'm just trying to get drunk, like this girl, this girl bite what? And so like, you know, we explained it all to them. They were very nice about it. And then Arden said a couple of weeks later, one of them came in said we should practice with this. And then they were laughing. They were laughing. And they were like lay down and shake, and we'll do the rest. And so like they actually now they do that for fun. turned into a play thing. But I've also talked to people whose kids are in college. We're like, I'm not telling anybody about this. And I agree with you. Like one person needs to understand this. That's it. And also, I need to know how to call your roommates. That was the thing we did. So I have like, Arden's roommates are in my phone. And you know, it's happened, I guess twice now once where I actually couldn't wake her up. And she was pretty low. And one of the girls went and got her and gave her juice and she was fine. And there was once where I, I moved a little too quickly. And then I heard about the next day.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:40
Like you reached out to the roommate.

Scott Benner 51:41
Yeah. And I heard about from Martin. She's like that was not necessary. And I was like, you want to try being 700 miles away when your blood sugar's 52 with an hour down because it felt necessary to me and you didn't answer your phone. She's like, I was handling it. I was like you didn't answer the text. So they got the call. And you know, now she's better about it. She She's more responsive now. And I think again, maybe to protect her friends. More than ourselves. Maybe you know, maybe. Yeah, interesting stuff. Oh, anyway, yes. Good luck, everybody. Good. Yeah. It makes me

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:12
wonder how did I survive college? I don't know. Well, you

Scott Benner 52:16
know, were you thinking about your mom when you were talking about this? Because your mom raised two kids with type one. Right? So I wonder what she did? We did not have any of this Dexcom we did not have follow find anything? Yeah. I don't know that find your iPhone is my best tip for people who have iPhones. If your kids don't respond, you can send a find your iPhone signal that is piercing on the other? Eye? Yes, I've

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:46
heard that. Yeah, I've

Scott Benner 52:47
done that a couple of times over the years. Did we miss anything? Are we? Are we good? No, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:52
think you know, as we as we always hear the like cliche, from upon diagnosis. And then in this transitional period, it is trial and error. But I think we often will be here that we still think like we should nail it and have no mistakes, no growth pains. But like it is trial and error. So they're expect errors. Yeah. And I know that there's like maybe that's not the right term, but in this phrase, you know, expect that there's going to be painful bumps, your child is not going to get it perfectly all the time, just like you didn't as the caregiver learning initially,

Scott Benner 53:31
you absolutely have to step back and see big picture on this one. This is a slow transition really slow. You know, Erica, you might imagine that throughout the years of me doing this, one of the most aggressive questions I've gotten from adult type ones who listened to me talk about this are like, Yeah, you're sure but then your daughter doesn't know how to do this. And I'm like, No, she's learning slowly. And then I would tell them the same story over and over again, I was like, you know, you send your kids off to school on day one, and they come home and they don't know how to add. There's no day where like a bell goes off, and they know how to add it just gets to the end of the year. And they're like, Hey, turn to us for like, oh, it happened along the way somewhere. Alright, so you just keep having those experiences. Like you're you're calling them trial and error, but their experiences, they go one way or the other. You'll learn from them eventually, and you move on. It's why I tell people not to beat themselves up. I would say never spend the time beating yourself up about a decision when you could spend that same time learning from it. That just makes sense to me. We already went through it. We already screwed it up. Let's figure out what we did. So we don't do it again. Like instead of you know, seriously, like whipping ourselves in the background here about it. Like let's just let's just look at it. See, see what it was keep moving. A lot of it's keep moving and then one day you just look up and you know, it works and you don't even know how the hell you got there. So that's life basically. Yes, there you go. Yes, I just fixed your whole life or keep going keep trying I think it'll be fine. And if it's not, I don't know what to tell you

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:07
lost the lottery, I don't know, be kind to yourself.

Scott Benner 55:10
See, Eric is still as good advice at the end of it. If it doesn't go your way. Be kind to yourself. It's, you know, I'll finish by saying that when Arden was diagnosed, I almost immediately had the thought that this is not the life, I thought I was going to live. I was just somebody just shifted me drastically out of the lane, I was in into another lane. And it takes you a long while before you realize there is nothing you can do to get out of this lane. diabetes is here. Now. That's it, it's not going anywhere. My kids got type one diabetes, this is where I live, you can be happy in that lane, and fulfilled. And more more than that, like you can do everything you were going to do in the other lane, you can do in this one, too. You just have diabetes, and this stuff comes along with it. It doesn't change the rest of it at all, unless you let it. And I don't usually talk like that. But I do think that's true. Like if you if you can get good management ideas, learn the tools, use them reasonably well. With the exception of some bumps once in a while. You're gonna live the same life you thought you were going to, but it just doesn't feel like it when it first happens is all.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:23
Yes. And I think you even said in a previous episode, you know, no one delivers a child and expects them to be diagnosed with something or have a hardship. Yeah. And so there is that you know, from from the lane that you had envisioned for your child to moving over to the lane that you envisioned with your child with diabetes. That takes time that can be painful. Yeah, just switch those just switch lanes. And I appreciated that. Yeah,

Scott Benner 56:55
I appreciate you remembering that everybody gets something like you know, I see a lot of perfectly healthy kids on tick tock, flip it over railings and landing on poles two storeys down, I think, oh, not a health concern in the world. Just stupid about that. too, just because your kid doesn't have diabetes. You know, because you can look at that sometimes you can look at other people in the world and say, yeah, they're so lucky. They don't know. But you you don't know, either. Right. Like they might have something else going on. Or just, you know, I don't know. I just think everybody gets something. That's sort of how it seems to me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:30
Yes, but you don't live with that necessarily that expectation No, no, be maybe you're right.

Scott Benner 57:36
Oh, no, I really thought I was going to be six, three way about 180 pounds, ever perpetual tan be very handsome. You know, everything I wanted. Money would fall out of the sky on me stuff like that. None of that's happened. I appreciate you doing this with me very much. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:53
You're welcome. Thank you. I'll see you next time. Okay, bye bye.

Scott Benner 58:07
If you're living with type one diabetes, and you think therapy might be right for you, Erica Forsythe may be able to help check her out at Erica forsyth.com. I'd like to thank ag one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and remind you that with your first order, you're going to get a free welcome kit. Five free travel packs in a year supply of vitamin D. That's at AG one.com/juice box. If you'd like to wear the same insulin pump that Arden does, all you have to do is go to Omni pod.com/juice box. That's it. Head over now and get started today. And you'll be wearing the same tubeless insulin pump that Arden has been wearing since she was four years old. The afterdark series from the Juicebox Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From smoking weed to drinking with type one perspectives from both male and females about having sex with diabetes. We talk about depression, self harm, eating disorders, mental illness, heroin addiction, use of psychedelics, living with bipolar, being a child of divorce, and honestly so much more. I can't list them all, but you can by going to juicebox podcast.com. Going to the top and clicking on after dark. There you'll see episode 807 called one thing after another episode 825 California sober. Other after dark episodes include unsupported survivor's guilt, space musician, dead frogs, these titles will make you say what is this about? And then when you listen, you'll think that was crazy. juicebox podcast.com Find the after dark series. It's fantastic. When you support the Juicebox Podcast by clicking on the advertisers links you are helped means to keep the show free and plentiful. I am certainly not asking you to buy something that you don't want. But if you're going to buy something, or use the device from one of the advertisers, getting your purchases set up through my links is incredibly helpful. So if you have the desire or the need, please consider using Juicebox Podcast links to make your purchases. If you are a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes. The bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bold beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. This series is made up of 24 episodes, and it begins at episode 698. In your podcast, or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this to listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bowl beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bowl beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies in Episode 715 We talked about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 735 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bold beginning series. We talk about community 772 journaling 776 technology and medical supplies. Episode Seven at treating low blood glucose episode 784 dealing with insurance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management. Check it out. It will change your life. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com