#1132 CA to NYC
Shannon has type 1 diabetes and is becoming a mental health counselor.
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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1132 of the Juicebox Podcast.
Shannon is 36 years old she was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 21. And right now she's in her third year of grad school to be a mental health counselor. Today we're going to talk about a lot her upbringing where things went wrong with her type one, diabetes, and so much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you use my link drink ag one.com forward slash juice box you'll get a free year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order of ag one. And you'll save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com When you use the offer code juice box at checkout. If you're looking for support and community, find the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group and become a member then it'll just be you and 45,000 of your closest friends. And don't forget to check out the Pro Tip series and the ball beginning series at juicebox podcast.com.
US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years, you can as well us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom makers of the Dexcom G seven ng six continuous glucose monitoring systems. dexcom.com/juicebox.
Shannon 2:09
So I'm Shannon, I got diagnosed with type one diabetes when I was 21 years old, which was 15 years ago. I live in New York City. But I'm originally from California. I am going to grad school, and I work at a cafe. And I have three cats, and I have about 200 plans. And that's pretty much it to start off.
Scott Benner 2:36
Oh, wait a minute. You were how old you're diagnosed. I was 21. And that was 15 years ago. Yep. But you're right, but you're in grad
Shannon 2:46
school. But I'm in grad school as an old lady. Yes.
Scott Benner 2:50
How did that happen?
Shannon 2:53
Well, so I originally went to college, straight out of high school. As per my parents wishes, unfortunately, they didn't require that I study something useful. So I, I studied photography, I became a photo journalist for many, many years on like a freelance basis, which this was quite a while ago. So I, at the time, there was no Affordable Care Act, there was not really options for freelancers as far as like health insurance goes. So that was a whole situation. And I always kinda, it's a hustle out there when you're when you're trying to find freelance work. And so I always kind of coupled my photography stuff with with other random jobs like really random stuff. Yeah, so I've, I've kind of just been floating around in that world for a long time. In 2020, when the pandemic hit, I lost the majority of my work because that was my my photography stuff. It was a lot of like events and that sort of thing, which, of course dropped off during the pandemic. And I had been ready for a long time to kind of start something else go in a different direction. So I was just sitting there one day locked down in my house and decided to start taking like free online courses, took one in sociology took a few like psychology ones that this is interesting, and ended up applying for grad school to do counseling, and didn't get it in the first time. My background, you know, is in Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's not a requirement that you have to have an undergrad background for this particular program. You don't have to have an undergrad background in psychology or or, or social services or anything like that. They actually kind of pride themselves in having like an eclectic group of people with All sorts of different backgrounds. But nonetheless, I did not make it in. But my very supportive partner, he urged me to apply again. And I got in. And yeah, so I'm going to be starting my third year, third and final year of program. I've been sort of part time throughout. And yeah, I doing like an internship as part of my fieldwork requirements. And by this time, next year, I will hopefully be working out in the field as a, as a mental health counselor,
Scott Benner 5:33
for you. Well, that's really wonderful. Thank you. You're one of the people who actually like we all were like, hey, while we're locked down, you know what I should do? I'll learn you actually did it?
Shannon 5:43
Well, it had been a long time coming. It had been, as I said, I always had to pick up additional work. And I was, for a long time to my my family has a construction business. And so very generously they, for several years, as I was building up my photography, career, they, they let me work for their construction business remotely, which was a very flexible and easy source of income. So I feel very privileged to have had that opportunity. But it just was not, not something I'm interested in at all. And so for many, many years, I was like, I got it. I got to find an escape and go do something else. So the pandemic was sort of an excuse to do that.
Scott Benner 6:31
Yeah, no kidding. Listen, while you were doing that, I was seeing if I could watch all seven seasons of New Girl. So
Shannon 6:37
did you do it?
Scott Benner 6:38
I did. Very successful.
Shannon 6:40
Yeah. Nice. I watched my very fair share of Netflix as well. So or what's new girl on set on Hulu?
Scott Benner 6:50
It was on Netflix. It just moved to Hulu.
Shannon 6:52
Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah, I go through binge watching of shows too, especially this summer. I towards the end of that school year, I was getting pretty burnt out. And then I had to take summer class, which ended about a month ago. And since then, I think I've watched like, five full series on Netflix and other streaming services. Yeah.
Scott Benner 7:15
So okay, so tell let's talk about just one last question. You were getting your health care through your parents company, is that right? diabetes comes with a lot of things to remember. So it's nice when someone takes something off of your plate. US med has done that for us. When it's time for art and supplies to be refreshed. We get an email rolls up in your inbox says hi Arden. This is your friendly reorder email from us med. You open up the email. It's a big button that says click here to reorder. And you're done. Finally, somebody taking away a responsibility instead of adding one. US med has done that for us. An email arrives, we click on a link and the next thing you know your products are at the front door. That simple. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 I never have to wonder if Arden has enough supplies. I click on one link. I open up a box. I put the stuff in the drawer, and we're done. US med carries everything from insulin pumps, and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three and the Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare nationwide, over 800 private insurers and all you have to do to get started is called 888-721-1514 or go to my link us med.com/juice box using that number or my link helps to support the production of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode of the podcast is sponsored by Dexcom and I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you a little bit about the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter wears the Dexcom G seven the Dexcom G seven is small, it is accurate and it is easy to use and where Arden has been wearing a Dexcom g7 Since almost day one of when they came out and she's having a fantastic experience with it. We love the G six but man is the g7 small the profile so much closer to your body, the weight, you can't really feel it and that's coming from me and I've worn one I've worn a G six I've worn a g7 I found both of the experiences to be lovely. But my gosh is that g7 Tiny and the accuracy has been fantastic Arden's Awan C's are right where we expect them to be. And we actually use the Dexcom clarity app to keep track of those things. That app is built right in to Arden's Dexcom G seven app on her iPhone. Oh, did you not know about that? You can use an iPhone or an Android device to see your Dexcom data. If you have a compatible phone, your Dexcom goes right to the Dexcom app. You don't have to carry the receiver but if you don't want to use the phone That's fine. Use the Dexcom. receiver, it's up to you. Choice is yours with Dexcom dexcom.com/juicebox.
Shannon 10:10
I was not no. So how do I begin with that? It's kind of a, it's kind of a show. Sorry, you're gonna have to bleep that out. But when I was, let's see, when I was diagnosed, I was 21. This was in 2008. And the, at the time, you could be on your parent's insurance, I think a tool you're 23. So I was good for a couple of years, I was sort of finishing out school and I, but I had this impending knowledge that once I graduated, I was gonna have to like find a job with Ben Fitz. And so right then, like, I think it was 2010. And don't quote me on this politics is not my strong point. But Obamacare came on to the scene. And he extended it from age 23 to 26. That you can stay on your parent's insurance. That's the way it still is, right? Yeah, I
Scott Benner 11:13
think so. Yes. Okay. So
Shannon 11:15
I stayed on my parent's insurance till I was 26, which gave me more of a buffer. So I just decided to kind of keep screwing off. And I decided I was going to do something adventurous and fun. So I moved to New York City, all the while, you know, still getting photography gigs, but still also working mostly food service jobs as a supplemental income. Before I knew it, I was 26. And about one month after I turned 26, so I stayed on COBRA for like, I think it was a month or two, my parents generously paid for that, or helped me pay for it. I can't remember exactly. They paid for COBRA. And then the Affordable Care Act was like fully onto the scene. And you could finally apply for health insurance with a pre existing condition just to get an individual plan. So I was able to do that it really sucked in the beginning because not many providers were interested in accepting this new weird insurance. That was, you know, through the state. So I had really, really slim pickings as far as doctors went, which was sort of my norm anyway, I was not great. As far as keeping a regular endocrinologist on on board. And so I kind of just wanted to get my prescriptions and that's all I cared about. So So
Scott Benner 12:45
sure, yeah, so hold on. So you sound like, like a, what's the word I'm looking for is a vagabond? What is it? Like? What, why? What happened? What is it just your personality, like the kind of jumping around and like, you know, they made you go to college, but you went for photography? Like, what is all that? Do you have brothers and sisters? I
Shannon 13:06
have two younger sisters. Yeah. So I'm the oldest, my we're all two years apart. So my, my young, my middle sister is two years younger than me. And then the other ones, two years younger than her, okay. Growing up the same way. I've got one sister that's a drummer, in band. And then I got another sister who dabbles in comedy and writing and bartending. And she's also a mother of two incredible kids. She's an amazing mother. So we're an interesting bunch.
Scott Benner 13:38
Hold on a second, where were the parents real successful in the in the construction?
Shannon 13:43
So yeah, what's interesting about my parents is that neither of them really. My dad didn't even graduate high school. Sorry, dad that I'm telling the world that but he he'd met my mom when he was in his senior year of high school she was as well and he was just all so wrapped up in that that he stopped going to class and didn't get like one final credit to graduate. Wow. So So
Scott Benner 14:06
what's your mom going on? What did you
Shannon 14:11
Oh, she like a cute little five foot two. You know? She was like 95 pounds at the time adorable.
Scott Benner 14:19
I'm getting the picture now. It's coming together.
Shannon 14:22
Very, very smart and witty woman so he was yeah, he was in love. Hey,
Scott Benner 14:28
certainly was he's like I forget about everything else. Doesn't matter. Nothing. So your parents have kind of a free lifestyle feeling like a free mindset as well. No.
Shannon 14:40
So what's what's weird is that they so they both like my my dad had a connection in the in the construction industry. And he's a he's a smart guy. He just is he just a naturally smart person. He moved his way up and my mom same thing. She's really like financial oriented, like, she's not a CPA, but she's done a lot of bookkeeping and accounting and her life and talks to me about all the stuff that I could really care less about. But she just loves thing all things money, and they ended up so we lived in Los Angeles at the time, after they'd had a couple of kids, the earthquake of 1994 hit and we were like at the epicenter. And our neighbor, our surrounding neighborhood was like depleted. We lived in a van for like several months, and then kind of upgraded to a motorhome that somebody loaned us. And in this haste, they put together a their own construction company to fix up the rebuilds. Yeah, the rebuilds, okay. And it you know, they're like I said, they're, they're very, they're kind of like scrappy, but very innovative people, and they just made it work. Do
Scott Benner 15:59
they make out well, in the rebuilds, and you grow up in a house that's financially comfortable?
Shannon 16:04
financially comfortable? Yes. Like, especially looking back, because they used to kind of complain about money, they used to fight about money, that kind of typical thing, it was a stressor for them. But when I think about my own life now, and how little I have compared to them, when they were my age, it's, you know, it's very generally rational thing. I'm, I'm like hardcore in the middle of, I couldn't be more millennial, you know. And they're hardcore boomers. And they really, they had a lot they owned houses, cars, you know, they had savings, all of that stuff. And they were trying so hard to instill that in us. I can't even tell you, Scott, what our allowance system was like, and what are we had chore charts, we had everything. And they were really trying hard didn't steal this. Like
Scott Benner 17:01
they got a drummer, a comedian and a photographer. I was wrong. I'm just trying to figure out how that happened. Like, like, my first thought my first thought was that maybe your parents just had a bunch of money, but they grew up kind of broke so that they were kind of in the middle with the way they parented and wanted you to have like a carefree lifestyle. But it sounds like that's not the case. It sounds like they tried really hard to get you to do that. And none of you took to it.
Shannon 17:27
Yeah, they did. They tried really hard. But I think it was an interesting combination of they wanted us to be disciplined people they wanted us to like be on the straight and narrow. But they at the same time they wanted to afford us what some options and opportunities that they didn't have. You know, it's kind of kind of typical, like do they did grow up? Both of them were the babies of huge families. Pretty much got ignored. They were just latchkey kids, a lot of divorces have happening. All sorts of stuff. Yeah, a lot, a lot of tragic stuff, too. And I think they just wanted us to have they did want us to have a carefree life. And growing up, I was very, very obsessed with playing soccer. And they told me from the beginning, like, Yeah, you should and could be a professional soccer player. And I believed it. And it was all about follow your dreams. And I did for awhile, and I was on this path of playing. I mean, you know about the stuff with your son, but I was on this path of playing collegiate soccer. I had coaches, you know, coming out to watch me and that sort of thing. And then I and then I quit mid season, right before I was supposed to go to college. Yeah, I just had enough.
Scott Benner 18:48
You just had enough of soccer. Okay, how old? were you when you were like, That's enough of that? Like 17? Well,
Shannon 18:56
yeah, it was sort of, it wasn't that I didn't like the sport. I loved it. I don't know if I could play it now. But it was more so than this. Maybe this happens with with baseball too. But there's just a lot of politics, a lot of weird stuff with the parents that are involved in these clubs, sports, and people get mean, the girls I was playing with got mean, and it was more of like the social act side of it that I was just very burnout on Sure. You know, round 1718 Like those years, my teenage years were not great for me. So that Yeah, I think that kind of came out of that.
Scott Benner 19:37
Okay, your teenage years. Were great for you why?
Shannon 19:41
So we lived in Southern California and moved up to northern California when I was starting middle school. I know it sounds it's like same state but it's it's worlds away. Yeah. You know, truly, like almost 600 miles away and I knew nobody and I'm starting this new school and I just became you know, I was So, I came from a situation down in Los Angeles where I had 40 cousins that were, we would get together like every other weekend, we'd have family gatherings. It was very tight knit, and my parents kind of just took us away from all of that. And
Scott Benner 20:20
you're starting over.
Shannon 20:23
It was starting over. And I was incredibly self conscious. I didn't know what to do. I was I was very lost. And I you know, I was trying to make friends. And it was just a struggle. And in the kids were so mean, like, so mean. So bullying, not to like dive in too deep here, but like, a lot of like, sexual harassment was going on with the boys from kids your age from the kid? Oh, yeah. Okay, bad, really bad. And that carried into high school. And, you know, I just kind of stuck my head in the sand and just all I cared about was soccer. I never once went to a party, I didn't have a boyfriend, none of that stuff. So it was kind of weird.
Scott Benner 21:10
No kidding. All right.
Shannon 21:14
So I don't know if I'm painting a picture of like, how? Yeah, it's funny, too, because my partner now he wonders about this. He's like, how did you come from this family where your parents are, so they're so like, financial oriented, and they're very by the book with a lot of things. And then all of you and your sisters are so just like, doing whatever you want? And like not thinking of the consequence
Scott Benner 21:43
is how do you get through? So this is interesting to me. How do you get through? How do you get through life? Like that? Like, do you? Is it Are you very focused on now and not so much future issues? Like how do you like, I'm, I'm like doing the math. I'm, like, 16 years older than you, right? Okay. I get up every day, in a slight panic, that I can afford things, and that my kids and that my kids won't be okay. And that I won't be okay. And that I'll end up in a home where somebody who doesn't care about me, lets me sit in my own pool for two days. Do you not worry about any of that stuff?
Shannon 22:23
No. And it's so interesting that we're talking about this because it has been a topic lately. And it's something that in my grad school program that we talk about a lot like recognizing our own story, our background story, where we come from, and like the privileges that we've enjoyed, or haven't enjoyed. And I think what is going on here, Scott is that I'm a very privileged person. I think it's just, I never had to worry about that my parents, and those like 40 cousins and aunts and uncles and grandma, and they love us so much. And they would do anything for us. And I That's the world I've always existed in I've never had to really think like, oh, wow, like, maybe somebody won't take care of me. And not to say like, I work hard. I do. But it's I don't have that, that impending. Like, oh, gosh, what if I don't have the money for this? What
Scott Benner 23:24
is there a nice way to say is, is there a big pile of earthquake money somewhere that you feel like will be yours one day? Well,
Shannon 23:32
earthquake money? Um, yeah, I mean, they've built up this business. It's, it's become very, like, the clients that they have. Now, I'm not gonna start listening to clients, but like, they have these clients that are very big global names. I'm just kidding. No, not like individuals. But yeah, like brand names, that household brand names, you know, there's
Scott Benner 23:59
an expectation that there'll be money to divvy up when mom and dad shuffle off the mortar call. Yes,
Shannon 24:05
but at the same time, I don't think I don't even think about that.
Scott Benner 24:09
I wouldn't think about that. If it was happening. I'd be like, what if it was happening, right? Yeah. What is your fear this and just piss it all away? They're just like, You know what, we realize we did you a disservice? Ah,
Shannon 24:22
yeah, they they might I think they did realize it at a certain point. And I know Scott, you've been kind of he's become an empty nester over the last year or two. And my parents went through that, I guess, about 10 years ago. Yeah. When we all finally left and we didn't just leave we like left left, like other states across the country see a Christmas. Yeah. And they had, I mean, they had a really, really, really hard time with that. It wasn't pretty. And I don't know why I was just talking about that, but they I think it I think they sort of realized, like, they kind of something in their parenting made us feel like, we could just do that. And it would be okay. And so I think they they've taken a step back and realize like, oh, maybe we made a couple of interesting choices along the way that made our kids turn out like this and leave us.
Scott Benner 25:23
You can do anything, including abandoned us. Pretty much being like, using hindsight, China as an example, because you brought it up. Could you really have been a professional soccer player?
Shannon 25:37
I think actually, I could have. Okay, I did that. Maybe that's just a product of you know, no, I
Scott Benner 25:43
mean, I believe that you believe it. But I'm wondering what I want to know is what I want to know is, like, Did you run a substantial 60? yard dash? Are you like, nothing but muscle and, and fit? And like, like real? I was worried then. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, you know, that professional female soccer players didn't make anything 15 years ago, right? Like, oh, I'm
Shannon 26:10
well aware, because my, I mean, we, we were so ingrained into this soccer culture. Like my parents, we would take, I feel like I brought up my parents 1000 times now. But they would take us to these collegiate games nearby, we'd watch these players go from the college world up to the professional world. And there was a, there was a woman's league that was like born at that time. And after I think, I don't know, a couple of short years, it folded. But when they were in, you know, starting out and everything, we would go to all these games, we were like, very invested. And yes, like, I was picked regionally to be on what they call, I think it was for the state, the Olympic development program. So like, I was doing pretty well, in the sport, and very small, very fast. I wasn't like, you know, big and muscley. But I was just I was quick. And I was a smart player. But none of that I don't think I could do now.
Scott Benner 27:14
Yeah, I mean, I'm doing my best to look here. And like top tier, female soccer players right now are making a quarter of a million dollars a year, but most of them make like 40 to $80,000, I think, Oh,
Shannon 27:25
yeah. But there again, Scott, I wasn't thinking about money. I was thinking about. I don't know what, yeah, I don't think about money.
Scott Benner 27:33
So I get the idea. I'm not coming down on your parents, either. I just find this really interesting plus your plus what you're going to school for? Let me be honest, Shannon, I find that a lot of people who like who go into like psychotherapy as a profession, really are interested in figuring out themselves themselves.
Shannon 27:51
Oh, yeah, absolutely. This whole thing has been a therapeutic invention for me. If
Scott Benner 27:56
you end up helping somebody else, that'll be a bonus. So but I get I get the idea behind telling your kids like you can do anything, but you really believed it to a level that might not have been completely healthy. Yeah, you you believe in yourself too much is what I think.
Shannon 28:21
Yeah, since in some ways, I guess they Yeah, we were put on a bit of a pedestal I think, you know. Yeah. And it's been an interesting journey to break away from that,
Scott Benner 28:31
right. As an example, right. I'll use myself as an example for a second. I am aware, I will never say it on this podcast. I am aware of what my IQ is. Okay. And it's impressive. Okay, but I can't do simple math. Like I'm like, I can't learn algebra. I can't, I can't remember if if my foots wrapped up right now, if I unwrapped my foot and tried to rewrap it, I wouldn't be able to remember how it came off. But yeah, not even kidding. Okay. And, and I started with literally nothing, and thought that's what my life would be. But I knew in my head, it didn't need to be I was like, I know I can achieve more than where I am right now. But, and every time I made a leap, I set my mind to something and I successfully move towards it. But I never celebrated it. I never went Yes. See that. I'm smart. I can do this. I'm always telling myself. You're going to lose. Like who's going to go bad. You have to keep trying. And you are like everything's gonna be fine. I mean, I'm not saying one's right or wrong. It's just really interesting. You don't I mean, it's
Shannon 29:45
very interesting. And it's it's so interesting to me that this was like the route that we ended up taking this conversation because I think you like zeroed in on it. This whole approach to life has had a huge effect on how I approach my diabetes. I was wondering, go ahead. Okay, so I was 21, when I was diagnosed, I was finishing up school. And I was kind of coming into this thing where I wanted to be independent and live my own life. And it's kind of an awkward age to be diagnosed because I technically I had been back, living at home, especially like in the summers and stuff when I was home from school. But it wasn't enough for my parents to like, they weren't going to help me or take care of me with my, with my management of type one diabetes. And that's that I was okay with that. I wanted that. Because I wanted everybody to believe that I that everything was perfectly fine. And when I say everybody, Scott, I mean, the very few people that I actually let know, I had diabetes. I was so, so afraid. And still, quite honestly, I still am about people knowing I had diabetes, because I was afraid that they would say all the wrong things, asked me all the wrong questions, and dealt me in certain ways. And I just wanted to believe in myself, and believe that I could do it. And I did crazy things to avoid anyone knowing about my diabetes, to making sure I was the best at diabetes. And it wore on me for like, a long time. This was, I mean, this was kind of my mode of operation. Had I come on podcast five years ago, which is when I started listening, I would have just sat there and probably tried to convince you about how good I am at diabetes, how I know everything. And I, in the last few years, certainly listening to the podcast has helped. The school program has helped me a lot, but I've just been trying to let go of that idea that I have to be the best at diabetes that I have to I it's a it's a hot mess. I hate it's hard. It's really hard every day and I the fact that I can actually admit that is like a huge step for
Scott Benner 32:22
me. If you were you really good at it, or were you just telling yourself you were good at it.
Shannon 32:29
So I was pretty good. Okay, I What did that mean? So I was MDI until I started listening to the podcast Dexcom and Omnipod. Scott made me believe in us. So that's what I use now, for the sponsors that are listening. But I was was MDI for the first 10 years of having type one diabetes, but it was like, I went through a lot of test strips, I was trying to act like my own CGM. Before I even knew anything about CGM. I was testing several times an hour, we're talking like 2030 times a day. I was my agencies were, you know, when I was diagnosed, I think I was around 10. That's the only number I remember ever being outside of the sixes. So I was you know, I was higher sixes for the MDA time. Sorry, MDI time, so it was like 6.7 and lower, I think, okay, throughout all that. When I was first diagnosed, I, so this was in like, 2008. So the internet was like a very different place. I didn't know any other type ones in my like, real life, and there wasn't like this online, like diabetes community. But I did a search and I ended up finding this girl who she was like, very, she was very pretty. She She seemed like she had it all together. She was very fit. And she was preaching this idea. She was type one diabetic, that she could make it so that she didn't have to take any long acting insulin. Okay. And I this was like, within the first few months of being diagnosed, I was probably still honeymooning. And I was like, very regimented about what I was eating and everything. I was like, Oh, well, yeah, I can do that, too. I even like, contacted this girl we met up at a certain point. She was like my idol. And I was like, on this quest to, like, prove to myself that I didn't need long acting insulin. And I was down to taking I think, like five units a day or something like that. For reference, I take like, depends on the point in my cycle that I'm at, but I I'm usually like 3040 units a day now. So I was just like Like I would, I was also doing my own Vagabond thing and trying to trying to, I don't know, survive in my own little way. And I would, I didn't want to, like ask my parents for money. So when I couldn't like it and I was really bad at just like, doing basic things like going to the pharmacy. So one time I was leaving for a trip, and I was gonna go on some road trip, going to visit a cousin, who had just had twins, and I was gonna kind of like, help her with the babies and stuff. And I realized that I didn't have I hardly had any insulin left in my fridge to take on this trip. And I was like, Oh, well, it's fine. Like, I'll just, I'll just like not eat any carbs. It's gonna be great. And I I get there, this is my whole plan. We go out to lunch. I have a artichoke, which I thought was going to be like carb free or something. And it wasn't and my blood sugar is shooting up. So I kind of told my cousin what I was doing. And she's like, are you insane? And she took me straight to the pharmacy. I remember we were standing we were there for so long. We had to we found this charger, this wall charger, or like a plug up on the wall where we had to plug in our phones because we were calling my insurance company like for you know and being on hold for like an hour as are standing there in the pharmacy. Anyway, she she ends up getting me the insulin. And I stopped trying to eat low carb and ration my insulin and whatever. So like I was doing weird stuff.
Scott Benner 36:40
Let me tell you something while I move around. So two things an artichoke a medium artichoke has 13 grams of carbs. And I have to put my foot up now prescribed by a doctor. So you're gonna hear some noise. Sorry about that. Okay, I know, I'm not allowed to sit that long with my so hold on this is I've never done this podcast this way before. Oh, okay, now my foots on my desk. And the microphones on a boom, if I fall asleep. It's not you. I'm just very, very laid back right now. Okay. I'd like to, like, bring something up. So the other day, I was on the social media. And I saw a person with type one diabetes, who I know makes a living selling there, I'm making air quotes, selling their coaching to other people. This person is in incredibly good shape. And I mean, visually, you look at them and think, I wish even just my leg look like that. You know, like, that's the kind of like, amazing health they appear to peer. And then I, it made me scroll through their feed. And I saw their blood sugars that just bounce up and down all day long. They're high and they're low, and they're high, and they're low, but they look terrific. And I thought, wow, they're selling that knowledge to people like selling Yeah, selling it to them. And, and you got they were posting their numbers. Yeah, yeah, the graph comes up, look at my graph. I'm like, Wait, what 250 70 360, like up and down and up and down on my end. But what I realized is that there are plenty of people who look at that. It's what you said to me what you said a minute ago, about that you found an attractive person, an attractive person with diabetes. And I thought that's what this is, like, people don't know what they don't know. And so if this person's graph doesn't deter people, they're doing business. They are young, younger people are going to them and getting diabetes advice from them. And then they're paying for it. And on top of all that, it's it's not lost on me that a lot of people might have been in the situation you found yourself in. Like, I just need something like if we could make fun of the fact that you were going to leave your house without insulin. Of course, that's ridic I love that. You're just like, I'm so carefree. But I'm gonna go see the baby now. I love it. Yeah, you don't think yourself like I need insulin to do that.
Shannon 39:19
No, I mean, I did I I'm really also very hard on myself. So I'm kicking myself. I'm like, God, like, what's my deal? I'm an adult. I should I should have gotten gotten that insulin but no, no, no, no, we're gonna fix this in some weird way not not fix it in the right way where I just postpone the trip a little and it's all gonna work fine and all
Scott Benner 39:39
that. It's all gonna work out. You think? Yeah. Yeah. But you feel that way about everything.
Shannon 39:45
I guess I do. Yeah.
Scott Benner 39:46
Here's the question. Does everything always work out? Absolutely not. Okay, sorry, that made me laugh.
Shannon 39:59
Um, I don't. So while it seems like you know, I had this this upbringing that was quite a privilege and sheltered. I have since left that and created my own life and in New York City of all places. So, there are things that happened to me that are very, very serious and very, like, I've had major traumatic life events happened to me, and will you not like I'm living in some dream world anymore?
Scott Benner 40:33
Will you? Will you share those, like something that changed your perspective?
Shannon 40:37
Well, let's see. I mean, first, we can think, you know, the, the type one diabetes happening was a huge shock to my existence. You know, that was one of the first things that happened, where I was kind of shook out of my, my typical way of thinking, I guess. I it's still like I was sort of illustrating like, it still sort of carried over into that. But as the years went on, and I and I grappled with it very, in a very alone type of way, like I really isolated myself, because of the fact that I didn't want anyone to know how difficult it was. And I didn't want anyone to know, at all, you know, I mean, I, I worked for a, just as one example, I, one of my jobs that I picked up, along the way was being a nanny, and I was a nanny for this family for like two years watching their baby, who, you know, is like one year old. And I never told them the whole time that I had type one diabetes, well, somehow, and like the mom, like worked from home, like, I don't know, how I just like hid this the whole time. And I was like, actively hiding it.
Scott Benner 42:03
Because because people would think that you weren't a lessor somehow, if they knew.
Shannon 42:09
Yes, yes. Like, I really have a problem with that. And that's been kind of the catalyst to, you know, eventually, as I, as I make this very, you know, different career change, I'm still figuring out what it is exactly I want to do. But I hope to work with individuals who are like living with chronic illness. Because I think I have this like understanding of what it's like to just be ashamed of it to be isolated with it into not know how to like, integrate it into your life in a healthy way.
Scott Benner 42:53
Can I make sense? I have a question. Yeah. So if you were a practicing person right now, I mean, you're three years into a master's degree. So you're pretty far you're pretty far along getting there. Yeah. And you heard yourself talking? What would you say? What would you say to yourself?
Shannon 43:08
It's a good question. And I asked myself that a lot. What I've learned a lot throughout the program is not so much like, like, it's going to be my job to give myself or anybody else, like, straight up advice, right? I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm not going to. I'm not I'm barely even going to tell you what I think. But it's more of a situation where it's my job to, to ask questions and get, get that person to kind of get myself to look a little more introspectively and figure out where these feelings are coming from, you know. And there's different approaches, of course, different, different theories, but mine is sort of stemming a little bit into psychoanalysis and figuring out like, what from your past is, and what patterns have you been adopting your whole life that has led you to this way of being now?
Scott Benner 44:11
Right? Well, it's why I asked you if you thought you were really an excellent soccer player or not, because, you know, that idea that being told that everything is okay, or everything's fantastic. And you actually knowing that it's not, that's the difference. Right? Like, like, Yeah, especially when you're a kid, like, you can't blow smoke up people's faces, especially children, because they're not unaware. And, and you telling them, like, my son has this way of like, when we're being like, supportive of my son, he will stop sometimes and say, Hey, are you just saying that because you're my dad, or is this real? Or is this real? And and that's when I know that he doesn't know. Yeah, because I've also said like uplifting things to him that he's looked back at me like Dude, that's not true. And And you know, and that's when you're as a parent just trying to be like, oh god, they're in a bad spot right now, like, let me just be positive. And then you realize I did, at least as you got older, like, there's no real value in that, like you're lying, what you're doing is you're lying to them, you're telling them a lie, to save them from feeling bad, when the truth is, they need to know the truth, or they're going to like, barking up the wrong tree over and over, over and over again, you know, with this idea that everything is possible, and that they are the top of whatever pile they're going to try to climb on top of, and that nothing's going to stop them. I don't think things should stop you. I do think at some point you, you should be able to assess the situation and go, Hey, this is not going well. You know, like, maybe this isn't my thing. Yeah, so that was my question. Like you, you know, the truth? Does it, it doesn't help to hear an alternative idea, like so there's a difference between honesty and motivation, I guess. I don't know what I'm saying. I think you're Yeah, I don't I mean, I think motivation needs to be rooted in, in truth. And
Shannon 46:18
honesty. Yeah. And I think that's why I tend to cringe. And I don't want to make any anyone sad or self conscious, because I see this a lot, you know, on the Facebook page, everything where it's like, oh, diabetes cannot stop my child from doing anything. They're a warrior. I appreciate the sentiment, I guess. And I understand, like, parents are in a really tough spot. But I think like, that's the sort of, and there was an episode with Erika that was so great. And actually, like, transcribed it and posted it about, she talks about, you know, that sort of family culture of like, we can do anything we want, and nothing's gonna stop us. It can end up backfiring. You know, yeah. What did you talk about? Said, so you said something funny about grit, essentially, like, putting so much emphasis on this, this idea of grit and like, Oh, I'm gonna push through, and not stopping to just maybe feel the hard feelings and feel like, well, you know, maybe today, I can't do it all. Like, I feel like, my blood sugar has been bouncing up and down for days, I need to, I just need to stop like I I have to take a break. And how that is a, that takes a different kind of strength in a way. And I think that's really important for people to, to know, because I think I was, you know, I was brought up with that idea around other things. It wasn't diabetes, because I wasn't a kid with diabetes, but I was brought up with that mindset in general. And then I applied it to diabetes, and it and I still sort of like, I've gotten comments from like, my mom and stuff that are sort of like I was I was at their house a couple of months ago, just visiting with them. And I was really open and honest about how much I have been struggling lately, with some of my diabetes technology and my numbers and how I've really had a hard time exercising with diabetes, you know, all this stuff, stuff that I never would have shared before, because I didn't want anyone to think that I wasn't doing well. And God bless her. But her response was, Well, you know, because I ended with, yeah, it basically really sucks. And she's like, well, but there again, it could be something way worse. Yeah. And I just, I was sort of stopped in my tracks. I didn't know what to say at that point,
Scott Benner 49:09
right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. I could have had my arm ripped off by a tiger Zoo. But that doesn't make what I just said any less impactful on my life.
Shannon 49:20
Yeah, and you know, you've had several people on the show who have multiple health concerns, and you've asked a question like, Okay, if you could, if you can take one of them away, what would it be? And so many people have said, the diabetes, like, because it really, it's it is a lot harder than anyone would ever imagine. I think,
Scott Benner 49:43
you know, what's interesting shadow is that, if you were to if you would have just pose that as a question to me, Scott, you've asked a lot of people with multiple health conditions, which one would they take away? I would have told you that it's my recollection that people don't choose their diabetes. Oh really what moreover, that they don't, they never choose what I think they're going to choose. That's the and so I wonder how much of that is your interpretation of it true, like the diabetes is something you would take away, obviously. And so when you hear people say that you agree with them, and when you don't hear people say that, I wonder how it hits you differently. I mean, you know, and I could be wrong, too. But I'm so from my personal perspective, I'm never right. Like, I always think to myself, they're gonna say this. And then they say, Oh, how about that I misunderstand how they experience these things. Like, like, even after talking to them, like they're first certain gonna say, you know, and then they don't, or sometimes they do, but like, I'm always shocked by it. It's just, it's fascinating. Like, it really is. But you're so your mom doesn't? Well, she doesn't get it. But you were also 21 When you were diagnosed, right?
Shannon 50:56
Correct. Yeah. And I, and she's done. She's supported me in a lot of other ways, but I think in that in that piece of like, truly understanding, and she might even understand, but I think it's difficult for her to mine. I think it's difficult for her to accept that I am having a hard time. So I think that was that comment might have mostly been for
Scott Benner 51:26
herself. Yeah, she was talking to her side is waiting for you to say that she's off. She's like, Oh, my God, my daughter struggling with this thing that I don't know how to help her with that we can't make go away. I need to feel better about this. At least you don't have cancer. There. Yeah. Cuz that's what she that's what everybody means when they say that, by the way.
Shannon 51:45
But pretty much yeah.
Scott Benner 51:47
It's a Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Are you close with your mom? You're not Yeah.
Shannon 51:55
So sort of, as I explained, growing up, we were like this, this tight knit family. With the extended family included, then when we moved away, it was kind of like, our immediate family became even even closer. And it was a little bit of this sort of like, in group out group sort of thing. Where it was like we we knew, we knew the way we saw the world. And we had a hard time understanding how other people saw the world, I think, based on like that, as the foundation, we were, we've were and are close. I have since it's it all started around the time that I was diagnosed. Two weeks after I was diagnosed, I was set to go spend a summer, leaving the country for the first time, like, I'd never left the country. And I was gonna go to Europe for a couple of months. And I did it, and two weeks into diagnosis, and that sort of combination of things, like set me off in a bit of a different direction. Where I kind of realized, like, oh, that in group that I was living in for so long, is not really reality. There's there's hard things that happen. There's diseases that happen. There's a whole world that lives differently than we live. And I sort of took that and run with ran with it. And I've since chosen a very interesting lifestyle for myself. I guess it's very different than my mom and dad's. And because of that we have certainly grown apart.
Scott Benner 53:38
Oh, I can't figure out what you're talking about. Is it? Is it? Is that a social theory? Is it not political? You said you're not very political is?
Shannon 53:51
Well, it is a bit political there. I don't know. I'm not even gonna say,
Scott Benner 53:56
but I figured it out. Hold on. They make some money. They still live in Northern California. They're getting older. Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah, I got I figured it out. Good.
Shannon 54:06
So there's there's a pretty big political difference. I have, you know, I live paycheck to paycheck, which sort of now seems like a bit of a choice for me since it's been going on for so long.
Scott Benner 54:19
But you're right, by the way, but yeah.
Shannon 54:23
I mean, hopefully, like next year when I have a real career, that doesn't happen. But
Scott Benner 54:28
did you just figure that out? Or did you know that already?
Shannon 54:32
I think I think this conversation has been enlightening, for sure.
Scott Benner 54:37
Be honest, I could get through that art. That grad thing for the counseling, right? Oh, yeah, I'm good at this. Yeah, I absolutely.
Shannon 54:45
Absolutely. I was like fully hoping this would be a good therapy session with Scott.
Scott Benner 54:52
I'm gonna start charging people $40 As the copay.
Shannon 54:55
You should, you should no more than that.
Scott Benner 55:00
It's easy. I can make more than 40. Hold on a second. What do we say? You know what I mean? Like to do like 200? Yeah, hell, what am I doing over here making a pot? I didn't know this. I mean, for me, it feels obvious when people are talking. And I know I'm not always right. But this is this is it? Like, it's, they're not that many different stories, I guess. You know what I mean? Like, like the way people are the way they see the world the way they, you know, like, I mean, we could go back and dig up the, like, the whole thing with your parents being super young and getting together. And then, you know, like, it's just you brought up that they were like the youngest in their families and big families. And, yeah, it all makes sense. And you start making some money. And then you're like, I know what I'm doing. And like, and then you're now you're young, you have some money, you have some kids and you start applying How would I wish people would have treated me when I was a kid. And then they had the financial backing to go headlong into it, which obviously sent the three of you into like a hippie lifestyle where you're just like, I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna do I'm great. And I'm gonna go do whatever I want. I'm a drummer. Okay, no one's stopping. You know who, you know who's the drummer? Lars Ehrlich? You know why? Cuz he's wealthy from playing the drums. That means a drummer. Okay, your sister plays drums. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, and I don't know your sister. But you know what I'm saying? It's like, even with photography, like, I mean, were you Annie Leibowitz? No,
Shannon 56:31
but I yeah, I will tell you I had some pretty sweet gigs. Let's just say I've met a lot of celebrities. But no, I mean, what what's weird Scott is that like everyone is always supported me and told me I was good. At and I really, really, really latch on to I am like, deathly afraid of criticism, like it's, and that's, that's why I had my diabetes, all of that. But, but I really super appreciate praise. And I will take it and run with it and make sure that I meet that expectation is that if that makes sense?
Scott Benner 57:13
Well, here, how about this, I will praise you for being a person who is interested in how their mind works. I'm not calling you old, but at 36. for you not to just disappear down this rabbit hole and go, Shannon's terrific. Everything that happens is on purpose. This is the way the world wants it to be for me. I think that's pretty cool that you're still thinking about it. Because I think most people by now would have just put blinders on and just run forward and anybody that didn't raise them or agreed with them would just have been written off as wrong. And I'm wondering why it's okay for me to talk to you this way. Is it because we have that? Because you've been listening to the podcast for so long?
Shannon 57:54
I think so. I was thinking about that leading into it where I was like, oh, yeah, I'm pretty much ready to tell Scott anything like I'm not going to, you know, this is downloaded millions of times. And so your your podcasts, I mean, not mine, but I don't want to tell you things about certain people in my life that are very private, but more for them. Not for me, of course, but yeah, I leading into it. I was like I can tell Scott, anything that I can tell my own personal therapist. And I think it's just because for five years, I've heard your voice. I've heard you respond to other people in a way that it's like realistic and, and fun, but it's not like judgmental.
Scott Benner 58:40
Yeah, well, I don't really care. I don't care about you. Like I don't, I don't. I mean, in the end, it's your life. You don't I mean, like, like, and like we said earlier if your feedback needs to be authentic, and an honest or it's meaningless, but like, but if you would have sat down with your mom and had this conversation, you wouldn't like some of the things I said. Um, where are you past that now?
Shannon 59:08
Oh, no, I'm not past that. Okay. Yeah, no, I don't think I would have liked
Scott Benner 59:13
could you partner get her Could your partner get away with talking to you like this?
Shannon 59:18
We're working on that. Um, it's, it's becoming better. Like I said, this the school program has been therapeutic for me. I've recognized it's like, created a whole new I was already very self aware person but like, it's created a whole new world of self awareness for me that I think I think we're Him and I are Trent and we've been together for 10 years. But we're we're treading into territory that is becoming, you know, more open and honest and pushing me to be more introspective about how different our upbringings are and how and And, and our approach to life is and how so? So certain things? Yes, um, no, I'm very, with most people, I would say, I take very quick offense to most things that are anywhere near critical or treading on that territory.
Scott Benner 1:00:22
All I've learned so far today is that I gotta get my wife to listen to this podcast for five years, and then I can,
Shannon 1:00:28
and then she, she'll open up she listened to me. Oh, my she ever listened to an episode.
Scott Benner 1:00:37
I mean, I don't I probably, I don't know. It's not not a thing we talk about, honestly. Just in case. Hi, Kelly. Oh, my God, you imagine? He doesn't listen to me for sure. I mean, like, she has the same reaction to me that you would have to your mom. I'm like, Hey, I think you should do this should be like, that's not what I'm gonna do. Like, so. But I think that's just, that's everybody. Honestly, you know, we have like tight personal relationships. You're not looking for the person who you know, knows you to say something that you don't want to hear. Right? Because yeah, right. Because if I mean, you have to assume I've been talking to you for an hour. Have I figured you I figured you out pretty well. Right. Pretty
Shannon 1:01:23
well. You zeroed in pretty quick to the whole the whole parent thing, which I wasn't expecting to talk about. But here we are.
Scott Benner 1:01:30
Yeah. Well, and I apologize. I apologize for that. But that seemed like the core of what was happening. Yeah. But my point is, is that after 27 years, you might think I know a couple things about my wife, right? Yeah, but she didn't want to hear that. Because Because, because she's like, Oh, if he says something that that it's biting, I might have to accept it as being honest. And true. You know what I mean? Yeah,
Shannon 1:01:54
and that's the beauty of, of counseling or therapy, I think, is that, and this is obviously not true across the board. But my personal experience was, okay, now I can finally there's like this sort of neutral person, that I don't have all this weird history and baggage with that, I can just tell them and then in sort of, like, same with you, like, I can just tell you things, and it feels so good to just say them out loud. I will tell you also that, like I part of some of that thing that I was talking earlier about having these very real word world experiences is that my my partner is I don't know if I should say it exactly. But
Scott Benner 1:02:39
you don't have to say anything you don't want to share, don't be uncomfortable, please, I'll just
Shannon 1:02:43
say that I've gone to group therapy, where it's, it's like, that was actually the start for me, where I had never gone to individual therapist. But I went to essentially NAR Anon, which I don't know if you're familiar with it. But it's, it's like the same thing as Al Anon. Where it's the families and loved ones of addicts. And, and you go and you talk about you think you're going to talk about the person in your life who has to addict. And that's not what it's about at all. You go in and you talk about yourself, you talk about how you are coping with things and how you want to change, not how you want that person to change. And that was that was huge. For me, that was a light switch just totally flipped in my brain. And I forget why I started talking about this. You asked me something, but oh, I guess talking to people who aren't close to you, like you were saying, like your wife or your mom, talking to these complete strangers, you can tell them everything, and it just feels like a total weight gets lifted off of your shoulders. And that's why I think I became so interested in pursuing a career so that I could hopefully provide that space for other people.
Scott Benner 1:04:15
Yeah, no, I really hope you're able to do that for other people. It's obviously really needed. And I think also such a such a, a clear, clear description of it being the journey, not the destination, you know, because absolutely, I used to listen to these conversations and think, Okay, now we know all this, what do we do about it? But it turns out that the telling of it is what you do about it. It's not like you get to the end and there's a fix, or I mean, sometimes you stopped talking to a person who's bad in your life or you stop acting a certain way but for the most part, it's getting it out that leads you to The answer. It's not. It's not as cut and dry as I think people maybe would would expect without doing it, like, I'm gonna go and this person is gonna give me an answer, and then I'll go home and do the thing, and then it'll be better. And I don't think it works exactly like, no,
Shannon 1:05:15
no, yeah, that's what I was saying earlier, it's not so much about telling people what the solution is, and telling them what they should do and giving advice, it's, it's just continuing to create awareness around it. And, and going, yeah, like you said, kind of going on that that journey, which takes time takes a long time, maybe a lifetime. But and I just want to say, too, that my, my partner is, has been in recovery for a very, very, very long time. Even though that's the case, it's still not easy. There's certain characteristics around addiction that just, you know, tend to carry into other parts of your life. But I do want to say that he is actively working every day to to remain in recovery. And those groups are really special to me. Yeah. Oh,
Scott Benner 1:06:08
that's wonderful. I'm glad you brought it up. So other people, other people can hear about it as well. I mean, yeah, there's a real thing that happens, for example, if you're the child of an alcoholic, like, that's, that's a difficult life to have. You don't realize, and, and, you know, honestly, you're gonna have some sort of a problem from any which way you were brought up, I'm sure like, you know, Leave It to Beaver kid was probably upset. And those people seemed lovely. So you know, that everything. It's not to say that, like your parents, or my parents did something so specifically wrong, that they could have just done differently. It's just who they were. It's how the it's how the soup shakes out. When it's over. Honestly, like, you throw in all the ingredients, and you get what you get. Yeah, it's not like they had an option. And they could have done something else. They only ever could react to the world around them and their situations the way they were going to. Like, that's pretty much it. You don't I mean, I don't know if that's of comfort to people. And I would think it would be you got to be willing not to beat yourself up for it. For me, for you, I'm most worried about your personality and how it relates to your long term health.
Shannon 1:07:24
Like, yeah, so I'm now it's what's weird is that I've always been praised by my doctors about how amazing I do with diabetes, I got this email from my endocrinologist and she's like, I just want to let you know that I work with people all the time, who are really, really struggling. And it's really heartwarming for me to see somebody who's doing so well. So part of that is Scott, me, projecting, trying to convince people that I'm doing so well, but also she does see my numbers. You know, I've had a one season of fives, and I listened to nearly every episode of the podcast, and I'm looping. But it still really sucks. And it's still the the health piece that I would be more worried about is not really so much the diabetes numbers and that sort of thing. It's my attitude, the way I act around my diabetes socially, that I think causes so much stress for me. And that stress is, you know, not great. And I don't know how, I think, again, it's it's a process. And it's getting better, but I still like I like I mentioned, I work in a cafe and I have we have to wear these T shirts, and I get them extra large, so that it covers my Omnipod and my Dexcom on my arms. Because if it did, because, yeah.
Scott Benner 1:09:07
What would happen? What would happen if it didn't what it was people saw it?
Shannon 1:09:12
So I have this idea that people are gonna, first of all, I guess one thought is that like in, in food service, customer service, like you interact with a lot of people, and they tend to like, you know, like you were saying, like a lot of people are just the same. They say the same things. Like they will say the same things to me over and over about it. If I gave them the chance, I think they would do that. I also have had the thought like because we have all these like incredible pastries and very high carb, high fat things and I'm like, Well, somebody's gonna see that on me. And they're not going to want to like they're going to like ruin their meal because they're going to think like, oh, now I'm gonna get diabetes for meeting this.
Scott Benner 1:09:54
Does that ever actually happen or is that just the worry?
Shannon 1:09:57
It's never happened?
Scott Benner 1:09:59
No one Other things you worry about that never happened? You mean in life in general? Yeah. What else? What else are you bothering yourself with? It has never actually been a problem
Shannon 1:10:09
that everybody hates me.
Scott Benner 1:10:12
I like you, you seem lovely.
Shannon 1:10:13
Oh, thank you. lightful though,
Scott Benner 1:10:15
I don't know, I'll just relax. We're not at the end yet.
Shannon 1:10:20
Um, let's see. Go ahead.
Scott Benner 1:10:23
You see what I'm saying though? Like, you're just you're making you're making things up to be worried about?
Shannon 1:10:28
Definitely. Yeah. And yeah, I, I have co workers that I, you know, I've been since I've been off school for the summer, I'm now like, every day, like 10 hours. And like, I don't say anything about diabetes the whole time. Like, I have coworkers who like, maybe don't even know I have it. And so that's still like a thing in my life where I don't tell people about it. Because I'm so afraid.
Scott Benner 1:10:52
I don't care if you don't tell them about it. Like, I care about the why you don't tell them about it. Like if you don't tell them because you don't want to tell them. That's fine. If you don't tell them because you're afraid that it's gonna make them feel bad, or they're gonna ask you questions, you don't want to hear like all that stuff, then that's where I worry about it. That makes
Shannon 1:11:12
sense. No, that's that's completely what it is like, I don't I'm afraid of the questions. I'm afraid of what they'll think
Scott Benner 1:11:20
you care what they think. Yes. Why?
Shannon 1:11:25
I don't know. I wish I didn't. And I know, you don't care what people think.
Scott Benner 1:11:30
I mean, not so far. But I make it up and eventually, but yeah, I mean, it's it's not that I don't care what people think, either. I do. Like I, I wouldn't want to be a person who, I don't know, I wouldn't want to be a trash person who people looked at when that's a trash person. Like, I wouldn't want that. But if that was who I was, I wonder if I'd care? Probably not. And so is that a concern? About what? Oh, is that a concern about what they think of me? Or is that a concern about what I want for myself? So do you really care about them? Or do you care about what you really are? And you're afraid that if they say that to you, that's who you are, then is that weird? Yes. Okay,
Shannon 1:12:15
you nailed it. Did
Scott Benner 1:12:16
I? Sorry, you talk a little fast. You too. Yeah. You talk a little faster than Erica, or he gives me more time like because she's slower than I can. My thoughts can come together better. But, but I don't, I don't think anything is generally about what we think it's about. Why would you care about what a random person who works in a cafe, who you're not going to know for five minutes from now thinks about your health? Does that make sense?
Shannon 1:12:44
Yeah. Because what they think, becomes what I am.
Scott Benner 1:12:50
Oh, yeah, I wouldn't think that. That's not That's not true at all. But I get where you get where that comes from, if that's people's interpretation, and that must be what they see. And then perhaps that's what I am. And I don't even know it. But your mom told you, you could be whatever you wanted. Why don't you just be what you want to be? How come how come into one part of your life where that advice would actually help you? You're not? I don't know. I can't believe we got to that.
Shannon 1:13:18
I know. I mean, she's, Oh, wow. So yeah, I go head to
Scott Benner 1:13:27
head. So just take all that off of like, hey, I can be a photographer for the rest of my life, which obviously isn't going to be a thing and apply that to the parts of your life where it would actually help you. Because you have that personality. You just put it in the wrong places.
Shannon 1:13:44
Yeah, that's that's definitely true. I wonder why that is? Yeah, just look, I've gotten better. I've gotten better at this, of this idea of sharing with people, but I'm still a long ways away from being healthy with it. Yeah. Did I pass where the the health piece comes in? Go ahead.
Scott Benner 1:14:12
Did I just bum you out? Or were you just thinking about yourself? Which just happened? Why did my voice change? You got real slow and you almost went in your own head for a minute? Did I make you sad? I didn't mean to No,
Shannon 1:14:25
you didn't make me sad. I was. I knew that. This conversation would be did not difficult, but like real? Yeah. So I wasn't expecting that. I would come out of this. You know, like, totally feeling giggly and happy. Yeah,
Speaker 1 1:14:43
but you should. You should though, because we really did, like figure some things out that I think would be helpful for you. But I guess it's putting them in practice. It's the issue.
Shannon 1:14:54
But what about yeah, that's that is the issue. So what do I okay imagine you're me. Now I'm asking you to do what counselors really aren't supposed to do. Imagine you're me, you show up to work. And I will say something I change. Something's got on my loop settings. I don't know what it was, but because I am freaking messing around with that stuff all the time, but about two months ago, I think I changed something with my loop settings that finally eradicated the lows that I was having. And I'm talking like, extreme lows. Like, I have had so many lows, and I to the point where I was just like, in my 15 years diabetes, like I just get used to it. And I did something to where I'm not really having those lows anymore. But imagine you show up to work. And you're 10 minutes into your shift at the cafe and your blood sugar starts going low. Like what do you do?
Scott Benner 1:15:55
I mean, you eat something and take a minute.
Shannon 1:15:58
Right? Do you like explain it to anybody?
Scott Benner 1:16:02
I mean, if it came up and it needs to be explained, then yeah. But like if somebody came up to me and went, Hey, Shannon, what the hell are you doing? We're supposed to be working. I'd say my, my blood sugar is low. I've eaten something and um, I need to wait for a minute until I'm okay.
Shannon 1:16:17
But if you want to do weirded out about you know, maybe they're gonna ask me questions. I don't want to answer.
Scott Benner 1:16:27
Me, are you if I'm you, I see that I do. I'm like, I'm like, Oh, I'm not perfect. My mom told me I was perfect. These people are gonna find out I'm not perfect. I've been living this on a I built this, like, Tower of lies up and it's all gonna fall down on me. And then I'm gonna realize I'm not perfect. And then what happens? Is that about right? Yep, yeah. But then what happens is your blood sugar comes back up, but you still work at the cafe and you're still you? Nothing happens. Yeah, nothing. No, I
Shannon 1:16:59
have. I know. We've been on the call for a long time. But I want to tell a quick story about how I
Scott Benner 1:17:04
finished before let me finish the thought before. Oh, my God, I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. I want to hear your story. No one cares. The world The world doesn't care. Like you don't have make
Shannon 1:17:16
jokes about it. It's like the brunt of jokes and a they think it's funny. And I think diabetes is funny. Who does? A lot like I feel like a lot of people.
Scott Benner 1:17:26
Do you hear them all?
Shannon 1:17:29
No, I've only heard like one or two. Okay, so who cares?
Scott Benner 1:17:31
Like, like, you know what's interesting? This thing happened yesterday. I have this my whole life. I think Sinead O'Connor is a is that a cop? accomplished musician? Who is a great singer. Right.
Shannon 1:17:47
Did you Wikipedia her yesterday?
Scott Benner 1:17:49
No, no. And I know and I know her. I feel like I know her music, right. And I feel like I know, she's been an activist in her younger years. And that recently, she seems like she's had some trouble and seemed unbalanced at some point. And so and so yesterday, I learned that that she's died. And it takes me five seconds to noodle around on the internet and learn that her 17 year old son committed suicide last year, that she seemed erratic to people on social media the day before, and I jumped to the conclusion this woman's probably taking her own life, right? Because she's 56. Right, right. And it made me go listen to I was in the car and I thought I'm gonna listen to sinead o'connor music and I pulled it off because I thought she's so popular and, and and good that she must have all this great. I know one sinead o'connor song.
Shannon 1:18:44
Yep. Yep, same here. Yeah, this same exact thing happened to me yesterday. One,
Scott Benner 1:18:49
I know one and I listened to it. And I went, this is fine. And I thought like, did she spend her whole life worried that people would like her music or not like her music? Or like, you know, like, like, all these unimportant things? Because it turns out, I don't know any of her music, but I'm aware of who she is. I like I don't really know anything about her. And so my opinion of her is meaningless. But But did it somehow carry weight with her? Like, what does the world think about me? I don't know. Like these are somehow disconnected and connected at the same time. Because if someone's off making a joke about diabetes, does that really have anything to do with you? Because you're not Sinead. Oh, no, you don't. I mean, like you You haven't been on Saturday Night Live like nobody really knows who you are.
Shannon 1:19:39
Yeah, nobody really cares. But I somehow care. What what they think
Scott Benner 1:19:47
so even though nobody knows who you are, and they are not making any personal statements about you, you're worried that their statements are about you. Yeah. And that matters to you.
Shannon 1:20:00
Yes. Okay, it matters. With, with some things with with a lot of things.
Scott Benner 1:20:05
Yeah. But as we talk about it, you recognize they're not talking to your about, you
Shannon 1:20:12
know, but I guess my biggest fear is that like, as I accept more that, that diabetes is difficult, and that it has really affected my life in a lot of ways. I'm afraid that no one will grasp the depth of that. And then they'll just think that it's, it's some silly disease or easy or something. Why
Scott Benner 1:20:43
does that matter?
Shannon 1:20:44
I have no idea. Okay. But it does.
Scott Benner 1:20:50
Okay, I'm not, I'm not arguing with you. I just I don't understand why No, no.
Shannon 1:20:55
It's definitely a valid question. And I wish I knew the answer. But I do want to say nothing compares to you came out when I was three years old. And I think it was the first song I was ever like, really, I'm very, like, musically oriented. I love you know, I love to sing and it but it was like the first song I was ever like, really captivated by in life. And I remember I went to, I went with my mom, she was going to get her her hair cut, or whatever. And I told the hairdresser that I wanted to shave my head. And she's like, why do you want to do that? And she's like, because I was like, because I want to be like Sinead O'Connor. Like, I'm like this, like three or four year old kid saying this and. And she's like, Okay, we'll sing the song for me, and I did. So that's my Sinead memory. But it truly is the only song that I know.
Scott Benner 1:21:47
The only song any of us know, that's, that's fine. My point. My didn't shave my head. Yeah, my point about her is just because she was in my consciousness from yesterday. And, and that, yeah, I felt like I knew a lot about her. But it turns out, I don't. And I wonder if she spent time thinking people know who I am. Or I need to do more so that they can like it's all the same, like you in your personal life and a person being famous or experiencing the same thing just on different scales. Right? So there's this really, like, so I make a podcast, okay. Yeah, now, it's downloaded a lot, but not nearly as much as other people's. So the way I like to tell people in my personal life, I don't know if I usually say this on here. But this podcast is in the top 96% of all podcasts that exist, which is an astonishing, until you,
Shannon 1:22:41
you feel inclined to tell them that so you must care that they don't think that you're just like some random guy with a podcast,
Scott Benner 1:22:47
or I'm telling you a story, you haven't gotten to get to the end of it yet. So like so my point in telling you that is that it feels like it's this really big thing, except that the 4% of people are the 3% of people who have podcasts that do better than mine. To them. My podcast looks like a hobby. You understand, like, so I have this feeling that I'm reaching a lot of people, but I'm not really not in the grand scale scheme of things. And at the same time, there's this thing that comes over you in the beginning, where do people like this? Are they bob, and you have to let go of all that. Like, if you want to be successful at podcasting, for example, you can't worry about what people think. Because in the end, I'm only trying to be there for the people who like what I do, if I tried to be acceptable to everybody. If I wanted to make sure that from the far left to the far right, and everybody in between and every religion and culture, and everybody loves me, what I would end up doing is making something soy milk toast that it didn't matter. And it would die. Like you can't win, there are plenty of those, right? But hold on, we're getting to it. You can't make everybody happy, you can only be you. Now take that and apply it to yourself.
Shannon 1:24:12
I will do my darndest that's it. Um, I have been trying like I I think at least I'm aware at this point that this is not a way to live, you know, that's not sustainable, because it doesn't doesn't feel good to not good because because I feel inauthentic if I if I just present one version of myself and I'm not talking about the hard things. It's not it's not authentic,
Scott Benner 1:24:45
you know, you need to be yourself like like so my audience, right? The people who either are helped by me or find value in it or entertained or like me or whatever it is that it doesn't matter. Whatever brings them back all the time. Those are the people that I that I care about. Right like, and that's a large group of people, which was my point about telling you the 90, like, what my point is, is that if you go out into the world and be yourself, you'll probably be in the 96th percentile of people who like you, most people will probably like Shannon, and probably not care when they when you say something that doesn't seem perfect, because I don't make any effort to be perfect on the podcast, right? Like I say things all the time that people are like, I can't believe you said that. And I go, Yeah, this probably not, this is probably not for you this podcast. Like if you're, if you're not okay with that, you probably want something else, you should go get that don't sit around telling me you don't like me, that's, I mean, it's cool. If you don't, but we don't belong together, then. The concern probably is, is that most people won't like you. But what I'm telling you is that there's a big enough audience in the world, that you will, you'll do fine. And I mean that even within your personal, I'm trying to relate these two things together, like in your, in your personal relationships, most people are going to end up liking you, the ones that don't will go away. And the ones that do will stay behind and you'll be great. Like, that's like, there's no real fear of like, this is gonna go wrong. Like, but you've you're worried about it going wrong?
Shannon 1:26:20
Yeah, I don't I just don't believe that 96% of people are gonna like me, like, I don't want I don't believe it. Like I, I believe there are so many things I can do. In in a split second, that will just make somebody not like me. And it's just like always there. It's just a looming thing that's always there for me. Have you ever I'm like a nice person. I'm a fun guy. You know, I can be like, I have a sense of humor like I can. It's not like I have real reason to think this. But apparently I do.
Scott Benner 1:27:01
Yeah, no, no, I, if you've heard me say this, I guess that me but when I was first dating my wife, she very earnestly said to me one day, she goes, some people really don't like you. And I said, Yeah, I would expect everybody to like me. And she said, Does that not bother you? And I said no. She goes, Well, other people really do seem to like you when I was a kid she does is a matter of fact, either people seem to really like you or really not like you. And I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense. And then she pointed out a person and said, like this guy, I remember, he really doesn't like you. And I said, What do you think of him? And she started talking about him. He wasn't a pleasant person, you know, number of different reasons. And I said, Well, then, what would it say about me if he did like me? I mean, isn't it good that that person is not attracted to who I am? Yeah, you know, why does any of that matter? I don't know. It's probably got something to do with your parents telling you you were terrific.
Shannon 1:27:59
Something to do with that. And I would just say, it's absolutely something to strive for. I think. I think you've got it right. Maybe count your lucky stars, that. That's the sort of mindset you go into. Yeah, no.
Scott Benner 1:28:17
I gotta bring my foot back down hard. Sorry. I absolutely do. I don't want to come off. blase about it. I think just like good health or good mental health or any of the other height. You know what I mean? Like the things you get lucky with, you are just getting lucky with this is just how my brain works. I can't do anything about it. I would just say to you that I think you're you. You've seen the lightful you're not perfect. I got it. But you're not perfect. And that should be okay. Yeah, and everybody's not going to, like be down with Shannon. But who cares? Like that? Like, because otherwise, and this is the harsh reality of it. You're 36 You don't live forever? No. Is this your story? You spend your whole life doing this? You know what I mean? Like,
Shannon 1:29:06
that's it. I like that. That's a good that kind of flipped a switch there.
Scott Benner 1:29:10
Like just be done with it. It's ridiculous. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's no different than spending. I know a person spends their whole life smoking cigarettes going, I gotta stop smoking cigarettes. I gotta stop. So I'm gonna just stop smoking cigarettes, like, what the hell like how, how much longer are we going to talk about it? Like do I either do it or don't and if you don't then dive in headfirst and just say to yourself, I'm gonna smoke this sigma socket, like a and then just until it kills me and I'm gonna be happy about it. I'm gonna make a bit of a big sign that says I did this to myself. I wanted this Don't feel bad for me. Like, like, do it or don't do it. And in but like the sitting around ruminating is yeah,
Shannon 1:29:51
the ruminating it's
Scott Benner 1:29:54
exhausting. You know, like, isn't it exhausting to you?
Shannon 1:30:00
Yeah. Oh, it's so exhausting. And that's what I talk about the stress that surrounds that is, is what's going to healthwise take more out of me than probably the diabetes number. Yeah, yeah. And that's so silly. Shannon, they wanted Yeah, your
Scott Benner 1:30:20
story we're going to end with, okay, but I want to say this to you, and then just do with it what you will. The truth is that people come on the show, and they they'll lay down a track, like the one you've done with me today, right? And it's going to help a lot of people. My concern is always that it never ends up helping the person who recorded the episode. And so don't let that be your story, please. Like when this comes out, go back and listen to it. And pretend it's not you. Just listen to it like it's someone else. Because as you're listening, you're gonna think Oh, Shannon, come on. Like, just, you know what I mean? Like, you know what to do, Shannon just do that. Like, like, right here. Like, that's a decision you made, like, don't make that decision. Like those sorts of things. Like, I am very fond of the phrase, that person wants to be upset. And it doesn't really mean that people want to be upset, it means they're comfortable there. It's the place they want to be. And you're comfortable in this position. You don't like it and you wish it was different. But it's what you know, and therefore you don't. Maybe it doesn't feel like it's that important to break away from, but I think I think it is. So and I think you'll be a much better clinician when you graduate if you figure out a way to do that for yourself as well.
Shannon 1:31:39
Yeah, I agree. That's all I agree. I'm talking gets important.
Scott Benner 1:31:43
I got nothing else. What's your story?
Shannon 1:31:47
Yeah, no, I just thought this popped into my head earlier, I forget what it was we were talking about. But in at school, we were doing this, we had this one class where we basically broke out into partners. We change the change the partners once in a while throughout the semester and work with different people. But basically, we would do like live counseling sessions with each other for about five minutes in front of the entire class. We're about three quarters of the way through the semester, we change partners, and I start working with this woman who I've had a few classes with her and I had never really talked, she is she has some vision disability. She's not. She's not blind, but she has a lot of different things going on with her vision. And we started talking, and my professor kind of had us do some icebreakers beforehand, before we were going to like go into this counseling session with each other. And it was sort of I forget what the prompt was, but it was sort of something like, you know, tell me two things I don't know about you. And I finally just decided to say it, because she had told me that with her vision, the way her eyes look, it looks different and scary to people. And so she feels as though she gets a lot of weird reactions from strangers. If she tries to ask somebody directions or the time, you know, they they act weird towards her. And I wanted to sort of, I guess, commiserate along with her. And I told her about how Yeah, I'm a type one diabetic. And I have a real problem, too, with telling people about my diabetes, because I'm afraid of their reactions. And she was floored. She was like, what? And she was like, I had no idea that you had diabetes. I had no idea that something like that would affect you that you would be affected by by what other people think because she said and then she kind of we share it out loud with the class, like what we found in our icebreaker activities. And she's like, Yeah, you guys know Shannon, who comes in here like, Hey, I'm Shannon and like, I'm like, very self assured and self confident. Well, it turns out, she's actually not here hearing some hearing somebody say that out loud. To me was like, I had no idea people thought of me like that. First of all, I didn't know that I came into situations like that. So it was just very, I guess, very eye opening that that is the persona I project. And that when I finally tell somebody the truth, the god honest truth about how I'm feeling. It's like this person who I never really talked to her throughout our classes. She all of a sudden warmed up to me and she wanted to be like, friendly with me and wanted to know more about me and it was sort of just like this lesson and like, Okay, well you know that often anticipate that I was talking about if I'd finally just am authentic with people, maybe maybe I've been getting in my own way of people like me, because I don't show my authentic self. I don't talk about the hard things.
Scott Benner 1:35:12
Maybe that's it, maybe. I mean, maybe it turns out the whole podcast could have been just the last two minutes, and we would have been done. That's really, yeah, I mean, go with that. Yeah, yeah, go with that. Just, you already know how to project. Like your success. Obviously, people see you that way. So now all you have to really do is be the person you're projecting, and you're done. And now you have the confidence to know that people will like that, no matter what the truth is about you.
Shannon 1:35:46
Yeah, that's all. Yeah. So it was definitely insightful to hear that. And, you know, that was a couple of months ago now. And I think I've been trying to kind of like, internalize it more. And that is my goal, as you know, as you were saying, as a clinician to go through this whole process myself of figuring out how to come out of this, these patterns and stuff that I've created in my world, and then how to help other people apply that to their own life if, you know. So, yeah.
Scott Benner 1:36:23
Sounds like a plan to me. Yeah, it really also, who knew that the that the education system for clinic for clinicians for this was taking advantage of knowing like we know who comes into this space will actually help fix them while we're teaching them?
Shannon 1:36:36
That yeah, kill two birds with one stone. It's great.
Scott Benner 1:36:41
You know, the entire time we've been talking, no matter how serious this conversation has been, I am somewhat stuck on the idea of your dad being so smitten by your mom when they were little that he was like, I don't need to graduate from high school.
Shannon 1:36:56
Well, they are celebrating their 40 year anniversary this week, or next weekend. So we're all going all three Vagabond children are going to celebrate with them. And their two grandkids too. And so yeah, congrats to them. Oh, that's huge. Everyone who needs a high school diploma anyway? No, really? Yeah, he's still so like, smitten with her. And like, the things that that man does for my mom. Wow. That's
Scott Benner 1:37:24
lovely. Isn't that nice? All right. Sure. Well, listen, you got a guy for 10 years. You're not even married to him. He doesn't leave.
Shannon 1:37:33
True. Yeah. So many good reasons to and he's. He's a champ with the diabetes stuff, too. So Oh, that's
Scott Benner 1:37:40
lovely. Well, you must have you must have tricked him like your mom trick your dad.
Shannon 1:37:43
Yep. Yep. It's hereditary smoke and mirrors all smoke and mirrors. All right, hold
Scott Benner 1:37:48
on for a second. Okay, thanks.
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#1131 Drive the Bus
Megan has type 1 diabetes; she also once ran away from home to get married.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1131 of the Juicebox Podcast
Megan is 34 years old she's had type one diabetes for about two years. And this conversation goes in a number of different directions. We talked about hypothyroidism PCOS type one diabetes mismanagement from physicians maternity leave DKA Metformin, keto diets, shaky doctors, and the fact that Megan ran away when she was 17 to Mexico to marry her husband. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com.
Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contour next one.com/juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com forward slash juicebox
Megan 2:01
My name is Megan Della Torre and I live here in San Antonio, Texas and I am a recently diagnosed type one diabetic.
Scott Benner 2:08
How old are you? Megan? I am 3434 Recently meaning this year. I
Megan 2:14
know like I literally was probably 31 going on 32 Whenever I got diagnosed, and it was by chance I wasn't even like I didn't have I guess the typical symptoms are not that I was aware of the over typical symptoms because I have family members that they are diabetic, but they're type two, or that they even know of and I've I've encouraged them to go to the doctor and just tell them like you know, get the test done to see if you are type one because I was misdiagnosed but they're the gosh darn stubborn. But anyways, I found out when I was about 31 or 32.
Scott Benner 2:49
Okay, what's your ethnic background? I
Megan 2:52
am Caucasian, but I am married. I married a gentleman that is from Mexico. So I had to learn Spanish and I have a very Spanish last name.
Scott Benner 3:01
So Megan, like I was like, so it was meaningful. Because if you have a lot of type two in your family, I actually just put an episode up yesterday, with somebody with a Spanish background. It was really common in their family. And I thought I'll dig that out. But you and I are looking at each other today. And I'm looking at you and I'm like, that's a white lady. But you rolled through Toro like you weren't and I was like, I don't understand what's happening. I guess it would have been no no one.
Megan 3:30
Even though people I work with whenever they find out that I speak Spanish fluently because I actually funny side note I actually ran away with my husband when I was 17. My parents didn't want us to be together. And so I lied and said I was going somewhere else. And I crossed over the border into Mexico with my husband and lived there with him for two and a half years. Oh, Megan,
Scott Benner 3:47
you're gonna be a lot of fun. Okay, so, yes. So my brain doesn't work, right? I'm trying to imagine the Mexican family that sat around pregnant was like, let's call the baby Megan. Played, it doesn't make any sense. No.
Megan 4:04
To make any sense. Here, my mother in law and my son's name because his name is Braden and she called him but I then she doesn't know how to say it. So I felt terrible naming him and not very Spanish name. I'm
Scott Benner 4:14
thinking this is the equivalent of we would have named Cole Javier. And so yeah, anyway, now it all makes sense to me. Okay. Well, I mean, honestly, before we talk about you, before we talk about your diabetes, your household and you're dating a man 3434 Now 17
Megan 4:32
We started dating when I was 16. And then when I was 17, he wanted me to go with him to Mexico and he is 10 years older. So he thought that my parents agreed to it and they did not. I laughed. And I went with them and I called my dad when I got across the border and I was like, Hey, I'm not really at the beach. I actually went to Mexico and I'm not coming back,
Scott Benner 4:52
because I'm gonna have sex and marry a 27 year old guy.
Megan 4:58
Sounds like he's in love. My wife and I love him dad. And he's like, well have fun with that one. Don't come back to my house. I was like, okay, whoa,
Scott Benner 5:06
wait a minute. Can I be booted you? Well? Yeah,
Megan 5:09
my dad is very military, like he was in the military for like 28 years. So he's like, he literally got so angry. He was like, my house is not a hotel. Once you're gone like that, that you're about to be a team. Like, if you're making this choice, you're gonna settle with this choice. You're an adult. So
Scott Benner 5:25
even he was trying to get you to change your mind and come home.
Megan 5:28
I think he was trying to scare me, because over there in Mexico at the time, it was when the cartel was starting to get pretty bad. So I think he was just really worried about my well being, but like, in a very ugly
Scott Benner 5:40
I was gonna add, so I have a question. Is it the Mexican part or the 27 year old part that bothered him?
Megan 5:47
No, I think it was just the fact that I went to another country and I didn't listen to what he was telling me to do because he loved my husband. Always had
Scott Benner 5:55
Oh, okay, there's no prejudice here. There's no like, it was just like, Well, why did you do that?
Megan 6:00
It was just like, I I just was headstrong teenage knee, I guess and just thought that this was the best idea in the whole entire world. And I mean, now it's a funny story that we all laugh about. But back then, man, it was not the funny of mad at me. Yeah,
Scott Benner 6:14
my wife got kicked out of the house for going on vacation with me. Oh my gosh, for that far apart in age. I don't think I've ever told that. I've ever said this on the podcast. Probably not. Okay, I'll tell you. Go for it. People are like, What's it like having a podcast? I said, there's this moment where you pause and think I shouldn't tell anybody this and then you keep talking. And that's having a podcast. Yeah. So my wife's in college. She stressed out. I'm not dating her for I mean, that long, maybe a year and I'm visiting her and recognizing Hey, this girl is not okay. You know, like she's overwhelmed and everything and I said I don't have a ton of money. I was like, I have a little bit. I bet we could do one of those like, quick three day getaway things where you jump on a plane, couple hours later you're on an island, you know, two days later you're back home again. But you know it was a listen we couldn't I couldn't afford to go and to eat it was one of the other so we packed like canned goods in our luggage like I'm not kidding like we probably tuna fish with us to the Bahamas. Right? And and we you know, we jumped on a plane and it just to get her away like she just laid on the beach to be perfectly honest. You know what she laid there she relaxed. We had a couple of meals and we came home again. Months and months and months later. She was home for a holiday I want to say Thanksgiving. And her mom snooped through all of her belongings which apparently was fairly common. And found the remember they used to do the customs forms on the airplane. Yeah. And you'd have to fill out like if you declared anything. So Kelly being like a diligent type a Catholic girl she fills the even we're not claiming anything. She fills the form out very diligently. I remember on the plane taking the forum being like and throwing this right out and like what she's like, you know, filling it out. Where are you coming from? Where are you going like all this stuff. She kept it in her bag. And her mom found it. And so her mom came to her and said did you go to the Bahamas and not tell us and Kelly goes if you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G voc hypo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you storage evoke hypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use Tchibo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information. The contour next gen blood glucose meter is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. And it's entirely possible that it is less expensive in cash than you're paying right now for your meter through your insurance company. That's right. If you go to my link contour next one.com/juicebox You're going to find links to Walmart, Amazon Walgreens CVS Rite Aid Kroger and Meijer. You could be paying more right now through your insurance for your test strips and meter, then you would pay through my link for the contour next gen and contour next test strips in cash. What am I saying? My link may be cheaper out of your pocket than you're paying right now, even with your insurance. And I don't know what meter you have right now, I can't say that. But what I can say for sure is that the contour next gen meter is accurate. It is reliable. And it is the meter that we've been using for years, contour next.com/juicebox. And if you already have a contour meter, and you're buying test strips doing so through the Juicebox Podcast link will help to support the show. No. And she pulls out this customs form and holds in her face. And she says, well, then what's this? And my wife goes, Oh, yeah, it's the customs form from when I went to the Bahamas. And boom, she kicked her right. Oh, no, right there. She
Megan 10:56
just tear. But why though, just because she left the house or went on vacation or out of the states or when power
Scott Benner 11:03
move? My best guess?
Megan 11:05
Oh my gosh,
Scott Benner 11:06
I think she thought she was gonna buckle and be like, I'm so sorry. And like, kind of like fold. But what she, what she didn't count on was that if that had been happening to Kelly through her life, from her parents, that that kind of power thing. What they didn't count on was because I was a couple of years older than her. And my dad left when I was 13. I had been running a family for 10 years already. Like I if you throw a problem in front of me, I don't go Oh, no, I fix it. Right, Kelly called me and I was like, that's fine. You can come live with me. And I didn't like it to be honest with you. I wasn't looking for my girlfriend to live with me. I just I'm a I don't know, I fix things like so like, you know, took her in. And I mean, there was always this part of me that thought like, we'll work this out. Like, this isn't gonna go on forever. You know what I mean? Man, I don't know. Like, I mean, we got married a couple of years later, I got her through college, like she couldn't pay for college anymore. Like her family literally told her we're not paying for school anymore. That's it. They transferred her student loan debt into her name, and just laid it on her. Like, they tried really hard to like, force her home. But I was just like, I could handle that. Like, like, you know, like, so we kept going. I don't remember how old she was then. I mean, maybe 21 Maybe 21. But she didn't see your family again for like, maybe a year or so after we got married. Like so it was like, it was just ridiculous. Anyway, I resonate with your story, because there's this moment when parents just go to say something ludicrous. Like her mom could have just said, Why did you feel the need to go away and not tell us? And you know, and right. I'm sure my wife could have been said to her, hey, well, you know, you've been unreasonable in the past and I thought you might be unreasonable. I don't know why I thought that that you know, like, but instead she just was like, No, I'm doing it. And so And trust me, I didn't drag my wife there. I didn't kidnap her. But she wasn't like, Yeah, fuck my parents. Let's go. She was nervous right up until I got her on the beach and the sun hit her. And then she was like, Okay, this is okay.
Megan 13:05
Yeah, because she's not thinking about that anymore. She's enjoying the moment. Finally.
Scott Benner 13:09
Yeah, so anyway, I saved your short term ruined her life long term saved it again. It's all fine now.
Megan 13:16
Okay, as long as there's a good story,
Scott Benner 13:19
I just love that you were like, I'm not coming home. I live here now with my the love of my life, a 27 year old guy.
Megan 13:27
I know, hey, we're still together. So it's even better? I think and I don't know, it worked out. And no, it's amazing. One of those things to tell your kids whenever they get older. Yeah, after
Scott Benner 13:36
they're too old to do that. You don't want to tell you don't tell them when they're 12?
Megan 13:42
I know. No, I don't think so. Because my son will ask me all the time. He's like, how did you guys meet? I don't understand. And he's only nine. And I'm like, cuz I was best friends with his cousin that we went to high school together. And that's how I saw him. And I would go over there like a lovestruck little teenager, and I'm like, I'm gonna marry you one day. And he's like, this girl's weird. Like, she's this weird 16 year old little kid. That and then we went on one date, and it was history from there. So
Scott Benner 14:06
look at your phone. All right, so you're 34 Now you've got type one diabetes. Tell me about your presentation. So it
Megan 14:13
all started. We went through it was really weird. We actually went to Vegas during the pandemic. And I thought my coworkers actually started telling me hey, you should try keto diet because I had gained a significant amount of weight after having my son. I mean, I literally I've always been about maybe 130 pounds. I'm only five five. So after I had my son, I jumped up to about 262 70 and my coworkers. Yeah, it was that I had gotten diagnosed after having him I got diagnosed with hypothyroid and PCOS. And so anyways, I started a new job. My coworkers started telling me hey, you should try keto diet. That's what we're on and that works. That's great and whatever, right? So it kind of went hand in hand. It was perfect. Like timing because at that time, not knowing I was diabetic, it started kind of helping me. Well, I started feeling weird symptoms anyways, but I started having to go to the bathroom a lot more like ridiculously, where I wasn't even drinking anything. And I was constantly having to go to the bathroom and I'm like, Okay, this is weird. The middle of the night, I would get up and I would do it. And my doctor was like, no, no, it's okay. Like, you're on a keto diet. This is pretty normal. But I had gotten to the doctor so often, they didn't think to do lab that guess at the time, it wasn't something that was striking them as odd. And so we came back, and I started doing gardening outside with my husband, and I'm like, hey, my stomach hurts really bad. Like, I can't sit down and I can't stand up. I'm uncomfortable. I need you to take me to the doctor. Like something's wrong. This doesn't feel right. And so he took me to the emergency room on the corner. And he's, the doctor came back in and was like, you're diabetic, right? And I'm like, No, and they're like, No, yeah, we're not asking like, we're telling you your blood sugar's like 850 Oh, my God, I'm like, Oh, my Yeah. And so they're like, we're gonna start you on some insulin right now. But we're gonna send you home after that. We have to just you start talking to your family physician. I'm like, okay, so I let them know. And then they diagnosed me right there in the emergency room as a type two, no questions asked no, like, Hey, this is kind of weird that you're this high. All of a sudden, when I had just maybe gotten my labs done with my family physician, like three months prior to and nothing came up. And they had done my blood glucose and everything. So nothing stood out to them. But I called my family physician, they brought me in, and then I ended up doing bloodwork with them. And I had high cholesterol, which it was like to the point where I should have had a stroke. They didn't run any other tests other than my blood glucose. And it came out that I was like three something that present day. And so they started me on Metformin. And then they started me on cholesterol medication. But then as the Metformin at first it started working, but again, I was on a keto diet. So it kind of was helping because I wasn't eating any carbs. I was literally restricting myself down to weight even less than what my doctor was telling me. I was maybe in taking all of like 20 grams of carbs and a whole day. And so I had started I went from about 260 I started losing weight, I got down to about 190 but it was like in less than three months. Well,
Scott Benner 17:18
you haven't the pounds in three months. I literally it
Megan 17:21
was like within it was so noticeable. And it made me so sick that like I literally everybody kept saying it was the keto diet, that the keto diet was making me feel like that because and I was restricting myself from carbs that that's why I felt like I did but not knowing it was because I guess my sugar had been high for so long, that coming down from that or being that high that it was like almost like an alcoholic being weaned off of alcohol.
Scott Benner 17:44
You were using insulin at that point or no, just Metformin? No, just that format your blood sugar so high that you're probably in decay or close to it the whole time. Right.
Megan 17:54
So check. Yeah, so check this out. So they put me on Metformin, and it was working at first, like I said, with the keto diet and everything. And then my biggest thing is I'm not like, I'm not a sweet drinker, like I don't drink Coke. I don't do juices. I don't do anything like that. But my my biggest thing was always candy. So I thought I did it to myself. I'm over here thinking like, oh my god, I'm a type two diabetic. And it's the candy that did me and like, I'm a terrible person. And so I'm very OCD. And so I started restricting myself on everything. So I started dropping weight, like significantly. I started running every day, I started like, getting into mad exercise, and then the Metformin no longer started working anymore completely stopped. So they added on, I think it was first Sega, and then they changed it to guardian. So then I ended up being all in all at the very end of it all. I ended up being on five different medications for my diabetes, but not insulin. Well, my main doctor, yeah,
Scott Benner 18:53
give me a sec here. No, I just want to make sure you went to urgent care first, right?
Megan 18:58
Urgent Care first and then my family physician when
Scott Benner 19:00
you go to the family physician, do you tell them I have type two diabetes? They told me that an urgent care? Yep, yeah, I, I can't I can't stress enough to people if you're listening. Don't go tell them what's wrong. Let them try to fix you. It's nice to hear people like work through the problem. Now I'm not blaming you, but you set up a narrative when you walk in. I have type two diabetes. The guy up the street just told me and now that's the path you're on. You don't I mean,
Megan 19:26
exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so I think by even doing that as well, well, I was actually lucky because the lady that was physically treating me at the time at my family physician, she ended up going on maternity leave. And then I ended up getting another nurse practitioner that stepped in and she is amazing. And she started getting very curious about like what was happening with me because my sugars were all over the place. She put me on a FreeStyle Libre and then she's like, Okay, if something isn't right but we're gonna keep trying to figure this out because your sugars at this point like i She was really persistent. You want me you'd be on insulin. I said, no, like, I'm type two, I'm not going to be on insulin, like, I'm gonna get rid of this, I'm gonna reverse that I'm gonna get it under control. And so she's like, Okay, well, the next step is insulin, I'm just letting you know. I'm like, okay, so I got it under control for the most part. But then I started that high exercise like high intensity weightlifting. And so then come to find out when I was doing it, my liver was dumping glucose. So my sugar would die rocket when I was working out, right. So for like, months at a time, I would literally like in the morning, and then to top it all off, I have Dawn phenomenon. So when I would wake up in the morning, my sugar would just skyrocket for absolutely no reason, whatever it may be, and then it would come right back down. And then it would be normal levels, and then I would work out and it would skyrocket again, and then I would be fine the rest of the day.
Scott Benner 20:53
Yeah, you know, what I want to say here is that Jenny and I are make, I don't know how much of the podcasts listen to but Jenny and I are making this series right now that's aimed at doctors and patients at the same time. So to tell doctors kind of the things they should and shouldn't do, and to tell patients the things that they should expect or kind of push back against like, it's, it's a, it's a, it's gonna, it's going well, and I think it's going to be a great series that comes out next year. But we're talking a lot about language. And it's interesting where that doctor goes wrong with you. When you say I don't want insulin, you see insulin as an escalation. Is that the word? Yes, an escalation, right, like like, Oh, my diabetes is bad, but it'll be worse if I'm using insulin. She agrees with that. That's the problem. Like you could have dieted away your type two diabetes, if that was your goal. And taking insulin at the same time, those two things are not mutually exclusive at all. But you thought they were I understand why you thought that, because that's the narrative in the world. But that a doctor agrees with that is insane. Like the next thing she should have said was, no, no, you can do both of these things at the same time, then we'll take you off the insulin. Yeah, just that makes me upset. I think because my head so far into it, making that series right now. This is a classic story. And fascinating. You're telling it really well, I didn't mean to cut you off. I'm sorry. No, you're good, other than to say, Megan, I'm not a doctor. I'm like the furthest thing from a doctor. And you had hypothyroidism and PCOS before your diabetes onset. I don't know how anybody with eight minutes worth of like knowledge doesn't know to look for type one. Now. You have autoimmune autoimmune already, right now.
Megan 22:27
Yeah. So like, in hindsight, it's kind of wild because I like get kind of mad, like at the situation, looking back at it, knowing more now. But like even leaving the emergency room that day, I was like, looking back at it. I'm thinking they didn't give me anything to tide me over until I find my doctor. They didn't give me any sort of like paperwork that said, like, Hey, this is how you can try to help yourself or like any sort of guidance, I guess. So here I am. panicking and doing the worst thing ever, which you're looking at Google your I wasn't even like looking at things that are like reliable, it was bad information to get go. And so I'm like, over here, thinking the worst. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna die. Like it's my head's gonna fall off if like, you know, like the works in Google, even like, come up with like, all the worst scenarios. So. So back to the whole dieting and the exercising it actually come to find out. I have a I work for a transportation for district for school district. I'm a manager and so we have to hold a CDL. And I had done a physical for work. And the girl told me after I did the urine sample, she said, Are you diabetic? And so the I Am and she goes, you might want to call your doctor, I just did the strip and you were spilling a massive amount of ketones at the strip is black. And I've never seen that and I was like, Okay, well, like let me call my doctor. I don't even know what that means. And so she's I call my doctor, she called me back and she's like, don't worry about it. You're on a keto diet. I'm like, okay, she goes, Are you having any symptoms? And I'm like, I mean, now that you say it, I the only thing I've noticed is that my sugars are really high. I lost my appetite and I keep feeling like I can't breathe. And that
Scott Benner 24:12
trip by the way, my my ketones aren't high the test strip when it died.
Megan 24:16
Exactly, like it just went up in smoke. It dipped in the fire up, like incinerated. I mean, like, so I'm sitting here like, okay, cool, like, I'm good. I'm like, I'm in my mind thinking like as a dummy, like, okay, like, cool. Like, you're no, you're the doctor, you're gonna tell me the truth. And so I'm thinking great. I'm doing a great job at this keto thing, right? No, not even two weeks later. It's the first like week of school, which is like chaotic, and so we're literally like, It's a Thursday night. I make dinner for everybody. And it's like fresh in my mind. I literally made this keto. Like rap list, pork, whatever. And I was like, within 30 minutes getting sick. Mm. And I'm like, Oh my god. So I dump it out because I'm not the type of person that gets sick and I'm very careful with my food. So I was like, Okay, I just gave everybody food poisoning. So here I am dumping pork out. And my mother in law was like, but that didn't taste that nothing's wrong with it. Like, where are you doing that? And I was like, I just got sick. And she's like, Okay, well, you know, I don't think it was the food go lay down. You don't look good. And I was like, okay, so I went laid down, got sick again. And it kept going, but it wasn't like a normal kind of sick where you feel sick. It was like, I literally was like, throwing up and it was like, not even the right kind of color wasn't even like a bio color.
Scott Benner 25:32
Oh, dying looks different than regular being sick. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Megan 25:38
So here I am, like thinking, Oh, my God, you know, I'm driving the bus and the pandemic. I've never gotten COVID yet. And so I'm thinking God, I got COVID or something like, I don't know what COVID is, like, I know you get cold like symptoms. And that's it. And I'm thinking, Oh, my God, these kids got me. But then it still kept happening. And I'm like, anything other than like, what it really was right? And so I ended up finally, I come to work, sick. And my boss was like, No, you don't look right. Like, do you need to go home and I'm like, Okay. I don't remember driving home. I remember laying down at home and my husband finally woke me up and I was still getting sick. And he said, I want to take you to the doctor's, something's wrong. Like I'm scared for you. And I sat up. I went to go from our bedroom to the couch, and I couldn't breathe. And I couldn't have I couldn't catch my breath. And I thought, I think I'm dying. Like I literally
Scott Benner 26:35
got that one. Right. Yeah. And
Megan 26:37
so they took me to that stupid emergency room again. And the doctor came in and was like, I need to send you out immediately. You are DKA and you are paying to pancreatitis, and I'm like, Oh, my God. And I was like, I don't even know what that means. What is that? And he's like, you could potentially die because your organs are already starting to try to shut down.
Scott Benner 26:58
It's just, I'm just keto.
Megan 27:01
Yeah, I know. I was like, No, I just been exercising. Like, no. I know. And I'm like, How is this possible? And so he's like, but this is the crazy thing is like it was only my sugars were only high after I would get done working out. So my sugars on my FreeStyle Libre, were telling me I was at like, 90% for my sugar. Like all like I was pretty much always in range.
Scott Benner 27:26
But the range is also up to like, 200, right? Yeah, exactly.
Megan 27:30
You don't know. It was like, exactly. It's crazy, like, so when I ended up in the ICU. And they kept me in there for two days. And my now my endocrinologist is treating me he actually was the one that treated me for hypothyroid. But I, you know, dumped on me, I stopped going to go see him because I thought, you know, I'm healthy. I'm fine. He came in and he said, Oh, it's you. And I was like, Hi. And he goes, so I want to test something. And I said, Yeah, and he goes, I have a sneaky suspicion. But I'm not going to tell you until I get done doing these three simple tests on the audit should have been done, I think from the get go. And I said, Okay, he came back within an hour. He said, I need to talk to you and I need you to understand something. I said, what he goes, You were misdiagnosed, you're not type two. And that's not something you're reversing, you have type one and he goes, it's type one ladder. And he's like, it's a late adult, like onset of diabetes. He's like, but you, he goes, You were born with it. But something set it off and triggered it now, as an adult and he goes, your pancreas is literally kaput, like there's nothing that's going to do for you anymore, right? He's like, so there's no more medication. He goes, I'll keep you on Metformin if you want to. Because he goes, I know you're very careful with your weight. He said, I really don't want to he goes, but we're gonna do insulin right now. And so from there, like even when I was in the ICU, they were having it was so bad. And I was so sick. I was on there for like a week and a half. They have an insulin drip on one arm and a sugar drip on the other.
Scott Benner 28:55
Trying to get a balance though. Exactly.
Megan 28:59
Because they didn't want to bother me out because my sugars were fine. But I was so DKA and had been DKA for over like a couple of weeks, I guess.
Scott Benner 29:08
For Yeah, to flush that part. Hey, amount of time between the first visit to the local place where they said you had type two and the day where somebody told you to type one how much time was in between there.
Megan 29:22
One year? Wow. One year to the date.
Scott Benner 29:26
Right. And because it's Lada and it's a slow onset, you didn't just drop dead by the way, if it would have happened faster, your one year would have happened sooner and you would have hopefully run to the hospital and then okay, but your body kept helping and then stopping helping and then back and forth like that. Isn't that crazy? And I just don't even understand. You know, you use that phrase in range. And I thought that's the maybe the worst phrase that that people talk about. Like I don't just mean with diabetes either, like thyroid. Oh, don't worry. It's in range. Oh my TSH is four that's in range. But I have all these symptoms, but it's in range. And so you get these people in. I mean, in positions of power in medicine who don't really understand the details, and they just they pull up a chart and go, No, it's green on the thing. You're fine. Like, I mean, that's how you that's your understanding of this, like, great. Oh, my God, Jesus. If one kid, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, your husband had to save you. Because as much fun as it was when you guys were younger, now he's like, I'm never getting the girl 10 years younger than me. Now I really gotta hold on to her. I know. I'm gonna need her to take care of me. I know get off the sofa. You're not dying. Meghan get up.
Megan 30:43
That's pretty much that and it's funny that you say that because that's exactly what he said. He goes afterwards he goes, who's gonna take care of me if you're not here? And I was like, Oh, my God, I'm terrible. He's typical Marchesa.
Scott Benner 30:55
I don't know what that means. But I know how boys think so. Like, typical
Megan 30:59
like Mexican man, I guess you could say like, he's like, how in Mexico, their culture, like the women take care of their men. He's typical. Like, now you better get up because he was gonna make my food for me tomorrow because he would burn water if he had the opportunity.
Scott Benner 31:11
My wife got a little lippy the other day. And I said, Listen, I'm losing weight now. So I think I'm not scared anymore. I could turn this around in two seconds. I can find a nice lady. And so be careful. Also, my daughter, Arden, were driving in the car, like the last time she was home. I don't know where I've said this once in the podcast, but if it's Here she goes. You know, if mom dies, I could see you with a nice Indian lady. And I went, Yeah. And she goes, yeah. And I said, why she was I don't know, I just see it. And I said, Why are we painting a picture where mom dies? She does. I don't mean, like, you know what I mean? Like I said, I don't understand this conversation at all, but okay. And then so we found that dark really fast. We went back and told Kelly as a keynote, I said art and said that if you die, she can see me with a lovely Indian woman. And Kelly laughs and she said something like, Oh, please, she goes, You are such a catch. For like a middle aged woman with type one diabetes. They're gonna be lined up at the door. And I was like, oh, yeah, you're right about that. You imagine, you're having trouble dating, you're in your 40s got fired? She goes, she's like, you're gonna be taken care of some woman's type one for the rest of your life if I die, and I was like, Oh, you might be right about that. Oh, my God, not the point. The point is I got your husband was like, Oh, pretty much. I know that a light bulb went off like oh, shoot, like in a little accent. Oh, shoot, I think you're sick. That's fantastic. All right. So this doctor, I mean, saves you from this problem. What happens when you go back to your doctor who for a year has been telling you the wrong things? Do you ever go back?
Megan 32:45
I do. So she actually like I think she felt very bad because I was not in her defense. I really wasn't symptomatic to even being DKA because I really wasn't other than that not really having an appetite. I'm not really a big either. Anyway, so I think that's probably what deterred her from even having like the thought of like, something is wrong with you. But she literally told me I am so sorry. Because had I known sooner or even had like any inclination that that's even what it was she goes, but you are not symptomatic. Like not typical symptomatic for DKA or anything. Also,
Scott Benner 33:23
I think being keto masked a couple of things along the way, right gives an airhead at least.
Megan 33:29
Exactly what my thing is to is like, again, I mean, in her defense, I didn't even have pain. They were asking me like, Do you have pain and like because pancreatitis I got apparently is supposed to cause the legs severe pain, and I had no pain at all. Nothing and so it was just the only thing that they did when I got there was they started making sure that I was comfortable. They were giving me the insulin they were coming in every hour take in my blood. And that's basically it. I mean, I was just waiting for them to tell me I was good to go. And I didn't have any sort of symptoms Other than that,
Scott Benner 34:01
any trouble eating pork? Today? Does it make you sick? Oh, yeah,
Megan 34:06
I can't even anything like that. Even honestly, like I tried to stay keto diet, but then I'm like, You know what? Screw it. Like at this point. There's no point like of even trying to maintain something like that. It's not especially because like if I do a keto diet, my sugar will drop so freakin fast because it's damn Omni pod that I'm like, I can't do it.
Scott Benner 34:24
You're on the algorithm using only about five. Yeah,
Megan 34:27
my doctor I finally gave in because I was doing I was on a chemo log pen. And then on a actually because of your podcast, I was I was understanding how all of that works. But like Bolus thing and all of that. So I thought it was doing a great job. But he told me that with how severe everything was, when that happened to me, He really really wanted me to be on an Omnipod so that I'm not having to think about it or try to like gauge it myself. And he's like, just take all the thinking out of it and just let that thing do it for you. And if you have issues after that, then we'll come back and go over He says that he's like what I really really want you to be on on Omni pod. And I was like, I feel like this is for your benefit, not mine, but we'll go for it. Whatever you say. Now I'm not trusting doctors so much. Yeah,
Scott Benner 35:08
I was gonna say your you've different thoughts now when people say things like you might be wrong and trying to kill me. So yeah, well, I mean, I get it like, Wait, are you in Omnipod? Fi or only pot dash v pod five, five. Okay, so the algorithm is running for you. And yeah, and when you eat keto on it, you had trouble. God,
Megan 35:26
yeah, if I even like try to follow any sort of like strict low carb diet, like I literally will drop so fast. And it doesn't even it's within like, maybe, I don't know, because I'm pretty, I'm pretty terrible if I restrict myself because I literally will, I'll go i There's no middle ground. For me. I'm either zero to 100, or like nothing at all. So I literally if I go keto, I'm like not in taking anything all day long. I'll try to maybe do a bare minimum of like, 30 grams of carbs. If I go over, I get mad at myself. Yeah.
Scott Benner 35:54
So that's what I was thinking. If you're wearing that device, and eating, not keto, and then all of a sudden jump into it really drastically, it's going to I mean, it's thinking about your needs from yesterday. And if your needs changed significantly, then that's where you're going to be real quickly. So I'm sure if you stayed with it for a little while, and you were strictly keto, I don't see why you couldn't run that system. And pretty well, actually. But the problem is, if you bounce back and forth from very drastic to not drastic, then it's going to, you know, it's almost the same as Have you ever heard people talk about, like, Oh, my kids super active during the week, and not during the weekend. And you know, so they get higher blood sugar's on the weekend, because the algorithm by the way, this wouldn't, I don't even really doesn't matter what algorithm it is, but like the algorithms thinking, activity activity, and then all of a sudden it goes away, and then it comes back. And yeah, it's, I take your point. So I mean, I don't know, like, I ate very low carb once, when I was younger. And we did it to lose weight. Back before people called it keto, and stuff like that. There was a, you know, there was a doctor, and they give his name, he had a book, it was really popular. And basically, I just came home, we were really young. And I said to my wife, I was like, I think if we don't eat carbs, we'll lose weight. So like, you know, I grew up incredibly poorly. Like, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. And she wasn't much better off as far as nutrition went, you know, I remember making a lot of chicken wings and things like that. And like, you know, eating stuff, like eating just a lot of like, you know, meat and stay away from carbs and losing a bunch of weight, like, you know, this, you know, back then it was crazy. The internet is white people name things. I don't know if people know that like when you're younger, right? You know? Yeah,
Megan 37:36
I don't think they realize that either. Someone came up with a brilliant idea of calling it something in the mid just flew with it. Everything's
Scott Benner 37:41
branded now. Because it has to be because else How are you going to talk about it online or have a website for it or something like that. So now it's like, I'm keto. You know, back then that was called not eating bread. You know, you know, I'm saying, we call everything something now because it needs to be named, because it's being scattered. It's being cataloged online, you know? Yeah. So there's nothing new in the world. It's just we give it names. Now, I always find that even right now, like, from the most drastic things to the simplest things from like, I don't know from like Israel, Palestine to like, how do you eat? I love it when younger people like feel like they've just like, I don't know, they're like, oh, you know what I've noticed? I'm like, yeah, we've known about that for 400 years. Thank you. I'm glad you picked up on it today in April. I know, please run to the internet and tell them how you figured everything out. Exactly. So funny. All right. Well, you're alive now. That's good. Here's an Omnipod five Dexcom je six I imagine no freestyle Omnipod. Five doesn't work with freestyle.
Megan 38:41
I know. But it's about two and the guy told me that they are in the works of progressively like, getting towards where freestyle is going to work with Omnipod. He told me to give him a couple of months and it will be so I gauge it based off of what my freestyle says. And then I enter in the information on my little device that comes with
Scott Benner 39:00
occupied Wait a minute, you're running the algorithm, but you're feeding the number in constantly. Yes, that not exhausting a
Megan 39:07
little bit. And it's kind of irritating because I'm still I mean, it's almost like having the pen so if you think about it, because I'm still having to gauge it, but I just enter in like, however many carbs that is I can pause it if I want to I can there's lots of different things that you can do on it when it's being read manually. And so instead of it being you're
Scott Benner 39:27
in manual right now, yeah, okay, cuz I'm like you're frying my brain. I'm like, You cannot run that algorithm without being attached to a G six is like what is she talking about? Like that? There's no I just now I'm starting to Google. I'm like, that's not possible. I'm gonna have to say no to that. But okay, you're in manual. And you're, I say she's just running a regular pod right now. It's, it's basically like you're using dash because you're in Omnipod five and manual. I got it. Okay. So you've gotten away from the algorithm? Because you're switching from Dexcom to off libre, was that a financial decision? Or why did you do that?
Megan 39:59
I never Did Dexcom I always stuck with freestyle? I never liked Dexcom to be honest with you, but now it's caught my attention because I don't know, I guess it was more so that I just got stuck on freestyle comfortable with it. And I'm scared to do anything outside of that with everything.
Scott Benner 40:14
No, that's fine. But what I what I want to say is you've never used Omnipod five in automatic. Never know. Okay, so you're I got it now. So you went from MDI, to pumping. And you are getting low on when you're eating keto. Because you're you still don't know what you're doing with a pump. Like you're not
Megan 40:37
counting down. Almost like having a pen. Even when I was with the pen. And I would do it I was oh, Kay. Because I was, I don't know, like, I would get told like by some people, oh, you need to gauge it based off of like your net carbs, or total carbs, like everybody's opinions and differences and everything on like, how you should be dosing yourself. Yeah. And so I finally asked my doctor, and he said, it's whatever works for your body? Because some people, if they just dose themselves off of net carbs, and they're fine, keep going with that. Some people may be total carbs and whatever. And it's like, it just depends. Because like, for me, I can't do sugar free stuff. Even sugar free will spike me quicker than anything and other people. They're fine. Megan,
Scott Benner 41:20
have you listened to the Pro Tip series? On the podcast? No,
Megan 41:24
but I just had someone that just got done telling me about that the other day on the Facebook, they were they encouraged me to listen to it.
Scott Benner 41:31
You should you're not. There's stuff about how insulin works that you don't know yet. And I think so I'm just gonna plug it here. It's episode 1002 1026 in the player. And I think if you listen to that, you might have a number of lightbulb moments that will help you. And Oh, heck yeah, because understanding your settings better and how to use insulin is gonna set you up much better for when you actually turn on the pod five from manual to automatic, because if your settings are, I'm telling you right now, there's also three episodes about setting up Omni pod five, it's in the eight hundreds, it's a it's a protip series about Omnipod five, overview settings and something else, if you set that on a pod five up in automation, with bad settings, you're gonna you're in for a storm, it's not going to go well, like so like you have to have good settings. And if you don't know how to use insulin right, then your settings are wrong. And then you're gonna go into automation have a lot of trouble. So I'm being serious, take some time, listen to the Pro Tip series, have your aha moments get your settings better, you're gonna have better outcomes, you can probably go back to keto if you want to, or whatever you want to do. And then once you move to automation, you're gonna have a much better time. I also think I'm going to either call this episode driving the bus, or those little suckers got me sick. I think it's driving the bus. It's my favorite part of the ladder. But just I don't think Apple will let it be in the would let that happen. Because like that's, that's what I imagined you I imagine you at work sick as a dog looking around going, Oh, these little suckers got me sick.
Megan 43:05
I won't even lie. That's exactly what I was thinking. I was like, Danny got me sick on a bus and I'm over here dying and they don't even know. And they're all sneezing and coughing. And I'm like, Oh, poor little Johnny.
Scott Benner 43:15
Hey, that's for nothing. Can you? Can you say these little girls got me sick in Spanish.
Megan 43:20
And no, I don't even know how to say that. That that I could like off the top of my head cuz you have me on there?
Scott Benner 43:26
Well, you're still nervous. We've been doing this for 45 minutes. Yes.
Megan 43:29
After two emails I posted. I'm thermo. I think that's how you say one more time as the student emails my postman and I think
Scott Benner 43:42
that's wrong. I can't wait for somebody to send that a thing and said she just asked if my ups package was ready.
Megan 43:47
Oh my God. They called my mom something.
Scott Benner 43:53
Why are you still nervous? You're doing such a good job of telling your story.
Megan 43:55
I don't know it's just because I get really nervous talking to people about it. Because now I have people here at work actually. And it's really sad that like, oh, and to top it all off, just to put this as a side note. My the funny part about all of this and it was like the worst thing to ever happen during all of this chaos. Literally after I got diagnosed with diabetes, my husband got diagnosed with type two.
Scott Benner 44:22
Well, geez, least you know what to do for that.
Megan 44:25
I know and the great thing was that at that point, we were able to say like Okay, are you type one and they misdiagnosed you? And then it turned out he was just I do but I was actually because he's not the greatest eater? He just, I mean, it's no no same to like the culture at all. But I mean, tortillas are not exactly like the most healthiest thing and just the food in general. I mean, they use what's called Manteca, which is basically like the lard or like the grease and so they cook everything and then that's not healthy either. So it's very like fatty there. really like a highest sugar, high carb kind of diet. And so like, I mean, shoot even him in the morning with the down and he would have they call up on Tuesday, which is like sweet bread and coffee. And he I mean, that's like 40 grams of carbs right there and a little piece of bread and you're talking what are you going to eat for the rest of the day? Like, you know, hi. So I had to kind of reteach him. Is he listening? Oh, my God. Yeah, he, when he first found out his agency was like, Oh, am I do when I first found out my agency was like, almost out of 15 Oh, geez. Wow, that, yeah, so and when he first found out though, he was lucky because he was only like an eight something. So he was able to get it down. And now he's within, I guess you would call it like normal range. He's only like at a 5.2. So he's managing it really well, which is good.
Scott Benner 45:49
I mean, cultural ideas around food are very impactful for diabetes, both type one, type two, what I mentioned earlier that I have this episode that went up the other day. It's this girl's like, she's type two, she's 27. She's had type two diabetes, like legitimately had type two, just like 15 years old. And she's talking about how her parents cooked. And it's exactly what you just described. She said we were broke. It was a lot of like pasta noodles, bread sandwiches, like, you know, she said, if I actually got money, my idea of like going and eating fancy was like going to like the convenience store and getting an Arizona iced tea and a bag of chips. She's like, that was like, a night out for me, you know, and it she just said very culturally, the food is just it's tough. You know, and they, yeah, it's tough, you know, and you get used to it. And you think that's what food is, because you've been eating it your whole life. You know, it's hard. It's really difficult. I'll tell you, I don't know that without, without we go v if I ever would have like, flipped it around for myself. I did not eat a lot. And I wasn't like a really terrible eater or anything like that. But I also don't eat well. Like, I don't eat veggies. I hate vegetables. Like I like, like my parents. I mean, I grew up where if you didn't eat your food, it was there in the morning for you again. And I don't know if you've ever tried to eat a cold green bean 24 hours later, but it's upsetting. And so like, I have a lot of a lot of tactile issues with vegetables. I don't like the way they feel in my mouth. I don't like it. It's obviously childhood trauma from my terrible parenting that I was receiving around food. But that's not the point. We grew up broke. My parents didn't know. Like my mom opened a can of green beans and dumped them in a pot and warmed them up and handed him to you. She thought she was like, she thought she was serving up cuisine. You know what I mean? Like, so I'll eat meat, bread, anything dry, crunchy. I'm all good with that. But you start like if somebody asked me to describe broccoli, I was at a dinner with adults. And they were like, you don't want that. I was like, I don't like broccoli. And people are like, you don't like broccoli? And I'm like, no, no. And I started telling him about how it feels in my mouth, which got a lot of weird looks, but whatever them and I was. So I said if I had to describe broccoli to you, I would tell you, it feels like little balls in my mouth. Because the florets have those little like, and they come off in my mouth. And I hate that. Like, it's upsetting to me. Like they feel like they're everywhere inside of my mouth. And people are like, people are like, just chew and I'm like, No, I can't do that. Like I want to go You and I are looking at each other which is like odd because usually I would just mind this for like audio, but stuff like that my mouth. I can't even spit it out. Because I have to I'm like, like, I just wanted to, like, please fall out of my mouth. So I hate the way a lot of food stays. Now could I fix that? I'm a reasonably intelligent adult, I should be able to go get good vegetables, make them for myself every day and eat them. But I don't. Like, you know, and I don't have you making my food for me, telling me shut up and eat this, which is what's gonna end up saving your husband by the way, it's gonna make you pissed that Unborn is gonna save. So I know because my wife and I grew up in the same situation. So although she eats vegetables, fine, but it's still not her first thought. You know, like we just have I think I explained to Abby in that other episode, that even now, as adults who can actually afford to go grocery shopping, we still must look like just I said, I think I said rubes who found $200 in the grocery store. Because you don't because we're just like, Look at this. You remember what you were broke and it sticks to you? Like, you know, yeah, yeah, it's anyway. I don't know what
Megan 49:38
money though. I mean, food is just expensive in general anymore. I mean, it's so much easier to go grab the cheap shit than it is to even go out and grab all the good stuff. And I mean, yeah, that's being honest. I mean, every week we're spending like probably 300 If not more on food just to be healthy and it's like at the end of the day, how worth it is it like I mean, obviously your health is worth it but it Should crazy and it's like, they're setting you up for failure, basically, you know, like, they almost want you to be sick.
Scott Benner 50:06
This is gonna sound strange, hey, this existential conversation about the cost of things while putting air in my tires the other day with a gentleman who was also putting air in his tires. I'm basically having a podcast wherever I go. So. So here's the here's the lead into this, and then I'll get you to the story. This is gonna sound you know, this is this is right here. This is my brains, like don't say this, but here we go. This really old Iraq, Z 28 pulls up, but it's in great condition. Right? It's like a, I don't know how old they are. Now, they got to be almost a 40 year old car, right? Like, so this is a car that would have been amazing in the 80s. Or like, right, so and it's in great condition. And then this woman gets out of it, who also looks like she must have been amazing in the 80s. I don't know if that makes sense. So this very hot, 50 year old lady gets out of, I'm assuming would have been a really hot 20 year old girl 30 years ago gets out of a car, that would have been a really hot car 30 years ago to say, it was like they got out of a time warp. It's fantastic. That started the conversation between me and the guy with the air in the tires. And somehow that got over to honestly, I don't know. But this is very insightful about how this podcast goes. But somehow we got to what food costs and how things have changed. And I told him, I said, if you were in my brain, and walked into that convenience store, and just walked through and looked at the price and everything I was like, you'd be incensed. I'm like, I'm, like viscerally angry when I see what things cost. I was like, I was like you at this point. These kids think a 12 ounce can have something to drink being $4 is reasonable. Yeah, that cost 30 cents to make if you're lucky. And they're just like, Yeah, four bucks isn't bad. I'm like, they're just they're there. I bought King chocolate chips recently. And I'm in the grocery store. Why am I cursing about chocolate chips? Here. Here's the tissue box. Because I picked it up to put it in my cart. And as I was reaching to the car to put it in, I went, this doesn't weigh enough. And I went, what the hell. And I brought it back and I flipped it over that goddamn company, put the price up, kept the bag the same size and took two ounces of chips out of the bag. And I was I've been buying these chips for 10 years, I was like this bags to Light as He charged me more and gave me less chips, you sons of bitches. And nobody's mad. And I'm like, see, we've loaded everybody into this happy thing where everybody's like, nice to each other. Like you need a couple of people like me running around going motherfuckers are ripping us off. And like, you know, like in the kid don't know, he's gonna go in that store. He's gonna buy a cat or something. He's gonna grab a sandwich. He's gonna pay 20 bucks for it and not think twice about it. You know, I say you
Megan 52:42
just hit the nail on the head. It's because they don't know. They don't know, like, what it was before. And now I don't know when it changed. But we've all been asleep. And it's just changed. Yeah, like, almost overnight. It was.
Scott Benner 52:52
They used COVID. They're like, stuff's harder to make. Now it costs more. And we were like, alright, well, I mean, like, COVID I guess it's okay. Yeah, exactly. I just kept going. It's that those young people thing, like, I am, like, with my kids all the time. I always make a point about $20. Like, because the moment my kids don't think $20 is a lot of money. I think they're in trouble. You like I really do. I think they're in trouble. It's bad enough. Like, you know, you're married. You get married and have kids, there's a moment where everything costs $100. Like you don't buy anything, it's not $100. And then one day, it's $1,000. You're like, I never buy anything. It doesn't cost $1,000 I need a new phone. It's $1,000 I have to pay the electric bill that's $400 and I have to go food shopping, boom. $1,000 is gone. Like like that kind of stuff like it. It's fascinating. But you get accustomed to it the next generation isn't going to know any better. They're going to think that my house is worth the 2 million. It's happening. It happened to people in California 40 years ago, you're in a city rancher. It's not $4 million. It's if if a contractor came out and built your house, maybe cost them 50 or $100,000 worth of materials to put your house up. They probably pay a bunch of guys next to nothing to do it. And then you're gonna pay them $4 million for it like, Okay, go ahead, I guess. Yeah, go ahead if you want I guess like it's, I built a house. Like I bought my wife and I bought a crappy house. Like, I mean, if I told you that with the house of my wife and I bought, we got married, we had an apartment. We bought a condo. We got lucky in the condo appreciated. So we were able to get out of it with some cash enough to put down on a house. This is how the American Dream is supposed to work. And so we put it down on this like, terrible house and it but it was on a great piece of property. We're like, alright, we're paying for the property, not the house and we had this like very youthful idea like we're going to make enough money to build a better house here. By the way, that was not as easy as hey, maybe it was a lot easier to say it than it was to accomplish it. I lived in a house for, I don't know, 810 years, where once we tore it down, we learned that the walls were insulated with crumbled up newspaper, that when things like we weren't, we once opened the drawer to our, our utensils where our knives and forks were I swear to the face of the drawer had broken off so many times like the the front plate where the handle is had pulled off so many times that we couldn't get it to go back on anymore. So do you know what we did, we moved the utensils to a different drawer, and then put something that we never used in that one, and then it didn't have a front on it anymore. Like, we were like we were properly broke, you know what I mean? And in this really terrible little house. And then one day, we made enough money to basically tear down the house and build a new house on top of it. Now that sounds like I'm rich, but I'm not, it was only 1000 square foot house to begin with. So not very big, you could stand in my kitchen and look catty corner across the house, right into the far corner of the master bedroom, the master bedroom, which by the way, is our dining room now, which is how small my bedroom was not the point. The point is, the only way we're able to afford to do that is that we knew the builder. And so we knew this gentleman who had been building houses his whole life, and an older man with a real reputable company. But they hit a downturn. And he was getting ready to lose his foreman because they didn't have any work. So I was able to basically pay him what it cost him to build my house, because it kept all of his guys working for six months. So basically, we did each other a favor. Basically I floated him alone to keep his business open for six months. And in return, he built a house for me, if that makes sense. So yeah, no. So I build a house for like, that should. I mean, honestly, I didn't that back then it should have cost a half a million dollars to build it. And we built it for like $120,000 Oh, that's nice. When you finally see those things happen. You're like, so this was $120,000 project, materials, paid off, his guys did everything he needed to do made money, right. And he would have charged me a half a million if he was in a better situation. Anyway, that's what I think of when I pick up the chocolate chips. I was like, why are you what are you doing to me? And the kids? They don't know. Because they grew up and everything's so expensive. It's just what they think is right? Then they go get jobs where they're getting paid, like kids are getting out of college money. Well, yeah, they're making crap. And they're just like, they're barely dragging through it. And then when they start moving up, it's fascinating. What they don't think is a reasonable amount of money. And I guess now it isn't anymore. So I don't know. The point is that all leads to bed eating and situations like this, where two generations from now, someone's going to be saying, oh, you know, the culture. Like, you know, my husband like, seriously, 4050 years from now it's going to be an Irish guy telling his wife like, oh, you grew up like this, and blah, blah, blah. Like right now you're saying, honestly, right now you're saying my husband's from Mexico. He grew up probably with poverty, and this is what it were put him. It's gonna happen to everybody. And then this is gonna get worse and worse. So I don't know. It's upsetting. I'm getting old. It doesn't matter. I'll be out of here soon. Really have a little bit to kick the bucket, whatever. I mean, I'm 52 You know what, I got 15 years solid years. I don't mean I'm gonna die. I don't mean I'm gonna die in 15 years. But when I'm think about it, when I'm 67 You think I'm going to be running around making a podcast?
Megan 58:36
Over Hey, you never know. Just keep going on with it. And so that you're no more like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Look at him. You just came out with a frickin Netflix. It's like how old he is still relevant. Maybe you'll be relevant. 1520 more years. I
Scott Benner 58:51
just heard a really great interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger. But he was just like, talking about how he got through things and how I mean, when you really look back then he's in Austria having this dream of like going to America and even just the idea of getting here was ridiculous, you know? And he did it. So all right, you're right. I'm Arnold Schwarzenegger. I'll be fine, by the way, exactly, said a massive heart surgery and I think he's on steroids. So I'm gonna have to get some stuff together.
Megan 59:20
You're gonna have to amp your game up a little bit. But I mean, you'll get there.
Scott Benner 59:24
What should I start with? Probably, like low, like do some testosterone first, right? Like talk a doc and like, help me get a little solid?
Megan 59:31
Yeah. And maybe start dating an Indian woman after your wife dies, and that'll get you on another level. The food I heard.
Scott Benner 59:38
Well, culturally there foods not much better for you. So actually, Indian culture type two. Pretty big problem.
Megan 59:47
Oh, yeah. I'd imagine so because they just I mean, again, it's the poverty and they don't have any sort of knowledge either to even know that what they're eating is not healthy for them. And that's what it's what's out there. What they're able to have them what convenient for them at the time because if you don't have money you're gonna get whatever you can with what you have even if someone here in America on the system look at if like a woman is on WIC or something, even what's available to them for food aid with food stamps and stuff. It's not the greatest of food.
Scott Benner 1:00:15
It's also culturally it doesn't matter. Like I listen, I know a couple of like, if they're affluent, but they're, they're comfortable Indian families, and they still eat like they did when they grew up. Because it's it's just like your husband. It's in his head. Yeah, it's got
Megan 1:00:29
a comfort. Yeah, you don't want to go outside of it. Also people,
Scott Benner 1:00:34
they defend their team. I don't know a way to put that didn't mean like, you could say to somebody, Hey, that's just a box and noodles like, and it's got sauce on and you're eating bread with it and drinking a sugary drink like salvare bad for you. And they'll go like, Oh, my mom used to make this. This is what we do. You don't you mean? Like a what's the what's the sports world equivalent? Oh, people in Green Bay? Were giant foam cheese on their head. Because, right? You'd think they'd step back and look and go. But you know, that looks ridiculous. I probably shouldn't do that. But no, it feels cultural. And like, important. You know what I'm saying? And yeah, and they're proud of it. Yeah, exactly. I don't know that eating those noodles and wearing that thing on your head are any different is what I'm saying? You know, yeah, I
Megan 1:01:19
don't think so either. But even in
Scott Benner 1:01:20
Philly, like, the things that like I grew up with that I think are like, culturally, like, not just acceptable, but exciting. I'll tell you this. I'm gonna tell you a story. Okay, so I'm telling someone else's story. But it's my reaction to the story. That's important. I grew up right outside of Philadelphia. And I recently saw this baseball player, like a retired guy. I don't even think he was in the league that long. tell this story about his rookie year. He said, he's playing baseball in Philadelphia against the Phillies. He's out in the outfield. He's a rookie. And he said, this woman like in her 40s Like someone's mom is screaming at him. The entire game. I don't know the guy's name. We're just gonna say it's Megan. Okay. Megan, won't get me mad again. Look at me. She screams at him for innings. Megan, look at me, look at me, look at me. He doesn't look then he hits a homerun. And he said he's kind of feeling himself. So later in the game. Hours later, he goes out in the outfield. And he gets the nerve to turn around and look at the lady. Megan, look at me. And he turns around and looks at her. And without pause. She says I'm gonna ask your mother. And I heard that story. And I was like, Good for her. Because I tend to because where I grew up the way I grew up, I'm like, this is fantastic. She did it. Like she like, and that's a horrible story. Megan, do you understand me? It's a horrible, terrible story. That woman should not have done that. It's, it's not right. And my reaction to it was I love that story. And that's cultural to me. Like, it really is like, I hear that story. I don't just hear funny. I hear the whole thing. I hear the story that I told once on here, where there was a baseball player running off the field while I was at a Phillies game. I got the guy, the guy who lost an incredible amount of weight. It was like actually like to the point where you looked at and he's like, Well, good for him. Like he's really pulled himself together. I had that thought watching the game like this is good for him. But when he's run off the field, I yelled his name. I think it was Lance. I'm like Lance Lance Lance. He looks up into a crowd of people. And I said, I liked you better fat. And he put his head down and slunk into the dugout, and 30,000 people looked at me and they were like, yeah, and they screamed and yelled, like, I'm like, I shouldn't have done that. But it felt like, it didn't just feel right. It felt necessary. And like, but that's how I grew up. Anyway, that's me relating that story back to the cheeseheads relating it back to you eating bad food. I hope you all see the connection. Somehow, some way and if that lady's listening, brilliant, by the way, I miss told the story a little bit like he turned around and looked at her. And she actually went finally you looked at me. Thank you. I'm gonna ask your mother.
Megan 1:04:14
Okay, that's pretty brilliant. I'm not even from the East Coast. And I like that. I don't
Lija Greenseid 1:04:19
even know what that means. Like, like, other than she just said the what she thought was the worst thing she could say to him. That would be the most upsetting to him. And why? Because he was in shouting distance over. And he's somehow on the other team. It's, I don't know, it's like
Megan 1:04:35
some sort of sopranos or something.
Scott Benner 1:04:39
Well, isn't it funny you say that because yesterday, a woman my wife works with a woman to tell the story Meghan this episode is full of like stories I've never told before. I like it. Well, well my wife works with who I've never met before in person but know through zoom comes to my house because a couple of people my wife work with are going to carpool to this to another state to go to this conference together. And she's in the house. And somehow we start telling the story about when I used to work at, I'm going to keep this a little vague. I used to have a job, okay? Where I was in a marketing department, where I did the graphic design. And the way I got that job is a great story, because I have no graphic design skills or education, but I was still able to get the job. Anyway, I worked for this person who was out of their mind. And I do want to credit them because I work very quickly now because of them. Because they would, we had deadlines, monthly deadlines, and he would go around for 28 days, not do any work, and then come running at you with a month's worth of work. And it was due three days from now. And when he would get nervous that it wasn't gonna get done, he would literally stand over your shoulder with a cup of coffee and stare over your shoulder while you worked. Like so I can work under immense pressure. I'm really good at it. Like seriously, like, you could stand next to me with a gun, I could still make this podcast, I'd be like, Alright, I'm good. One month. He comes to me and says, This is a long time ago before people understood computers and everything. I wrote something at home. And then I emailed it myself at work, but I want to keep writing it. But my computer's zipped it up. So zipped it into a zip file, which I don't even know if it's the thing that people understand anymore. And he said I don't know what to do. And I said, Oh, I have a piece of software on my computer. I can unzip it for you. Email it to me, I'll unzip it. I'll send it back to you. So he does, and it's none of my business. I unzip the file, I put the document in an email, I send it back to him, I delete his email, I go back to work, because I don't I don't care. He comes running around the corner. 45 minutes later, where's my email? And I said, I sent it back to you like an hour ago. He goes, No, I saw that. Where's the one I sent you? And I went, I deleted it. And he goes, we'll go into your deleted files and delete that too. And I went, Okay, I'm like, 2425 you don't I mean? So I deleted it. And he walks away. But as soon as he walks away, I'm like, Yo, what the hell was in that file that he doesn't want me to see. And then I thought good thing he doesn't know. There's also a copy of my sent items. And so I went and I opened it up and I read his document. Now his document was a manifesto, like a rambling manifesto about the company, the CEO, the head of marketing. The other person, he worked for marketing the head of human resources. They're, like he like, destroys these people in this rambling document that he's only writing to himself. Like it's not being it's insane. Okay. I take that document, I immediately save it onto a disk. I immediately email it home to myself, and I sit on it. I don't do anything with it. I don't care. I just keep it. Why I don't know. Back then. I just did. Well, a year later. My wife is pregnant. And he's still doing the same. Every week, every month. Hold off, don't do the work. Don't do the work. Hurry up, hurry up, do it. And one day I'm working. And he goes, if you don't get this done, I'm gonna fire you. Kelly was pregnant with call. And I thought, oh, no, no, no, you're not. So I whipped out that document. I read reread it. I hadn't read it in a long time. He calls the head of human resources. Like some I forget how he put it like some like sycophant, with their head up to the CEO or something like that. I printed it out. I printed it out. I went over to human resources. I knocked on the door of the director's office. She don't know who the hell I am. I opened I'm a kid. She's a grown lady. I stick my head and I go, can I talk to you for a minute? And she goes, Yeah, sure. I said, I came in, I sat down. I said, I told her that story. And then I said, so this is what he wrote. And I'm inclined to give it to you. But you got to promise me, you're going to fire him. And she goes, I can't promise you that. And I went, you know what, that's fair. There's no way you could promise me that. I'm going to go on faith. So I hand it to her. And I sit there and she's reading at her assistants looking over her shoulder. They're reading it, she gets down. She gets that I remember this so vividly. She goes, who's the sycophant with a head up there? So they went Oh, Joanne, I think if you reread that, you'll see you're the sycophant, with their head up. And she goes back and reads it and she goes, yep, you're right. Thanks for coming, Scott. We'll take care of this. Anyway, the next day at noon, he didn't have a job anymore. And we learned that the reason all this was happening is he was an alcoholic. He was a raging drunk. So he'd spend the whole month drinking like he'd say he was going to meetings, but he would just go to bars. And then he would pull his head out of his office for three days and do his job and then scream and yell at us to get it done. Anyway, he shouldn't threaten my job. He'd still be working if he didn't do that. I tell that story yesterday in my kitchen To a woman I've never met before, who's not from around where I grew up. And she goes, you know, that's some gangster Sopranos. And I went, what is? And she goes, what you did, and I was like what I did. I was like, I just defended myself. And she goes, Wow. And she wasn't put off by me. But it was it threw her off. And when you just said that some Sopranos? I was like, oh my god, is that who I am? And I don't know it.
Megan 1:10:28
I think it's like whenever the lady he's having an affair with called the wife at the house. And she's like, I'm gonna kill you. Like she had the balls to call like that. Do you have the balls to like, no, don't call my house telling me you're having an affair? Oh,
Scott Benner 1:10:41
no, no, no, like, if one of us is going down, it's not me. You should have sent me that email last year. I like it. So I just anyway, after she said that, I started rethinking a lot of things. Because recently I had someone tell me, this is gonna crack you up. She goes, you're very direct. And you know, my first thought was, am I I didn't even I really had like an existential moment. I was like, I'm very direct. I don't know that about myself. And anyway, a lot
Megan 1:11:09
of people from East Coast are though, but like, I swear, I'm like, meant to live over there and not down in Texas. Those people in Texas are definitely they don't appreciate that. I like that kind of humor. Like when you see people on the commercials, or they're like, I am walking here and they slam their hands on the cabinet. I love that. That to me is like I would love being around people like that, like be angry all day. Like, that's great. Keep it out. But
Scott Benner 1:11:32
I'm not angry. It's just he tried to take my job. So he had to die. Like I don't know another way to put that. I don't even know that. That sounds unreasonable. I mean, I don't know what I would have done had he not screwed up, you know, all those months before and sent me that document. But he I don't know what I would have done. I might have just quit Monday read
Megan 1:11:51
the new. Have you heard the new abbreviation for Corona and find out that's what he did.
Scott Benner 1:11:56
That's what he did. Definitely when he did. Push the wrong person is what he did. But like, but anyway, like to think, again, this kind of goes back to how you're wired, when you grow up, and how this can impact your eating and your health. Being very serious. I don't know that I'm a direct person. Like, like, I don't know that about myself. I'm just me. Like, I'm the way I grew up. And the people I grew up around and the situations and circumstances I came up around, and that other people who didn't grow up where I am would step back and go, Wow, that's aggressive, or that's very direct. I don't like I don't see myself that way. No, isn't that interesting? Like? So?
Megan 1:12:35
I think it is because you don't see yourself and other people. But you know what, though? I've learned the older that I get? I mean, I'm not. I would like to think I'm not that old. I'm only 34. But I think that the older I get, the more that I realized that people nowadays are very, very sensitive. And they say things to other people like that are judgy. And it's like, do you see yourself as well, though? Like, they don't want to hear it about themselves? But they want to tell you Yeah, or they want to try to tell you like, Hey, you're aggressive and you're direct? Like, what are the matters of bothering you?
Scott Benner 1:13:03
I took it, I actually thought about it. Like afterwards, this person who said that, to me is like European, you know, they they don't like they don't live here. And she didn't also say it like, Oh my God, you're a vicious monster. She was just saying like, well, you're more direct than I am. Or the people that I grew up around, like you just said something I would not have said out loud. And but then she said, but it didn't hurt anything. And actually now we all are like, we all have a clearer understanding of the situation. Whereas before you would have had your thoughts that you kept private to yourself. And I would have had my thoughts that I kept private, and we all would have just kind of wandered and never gotten to this point. You just like walked forward and said it. And I was like, Oh, is that wrong? And she goes, it's not what I would have done. And I was like, but it's not wrong. I think now I'm like, in my 50s like examining myself, but then as time passed, I thought is this is probably why the podcast is popular. Like when people ask me why it is and I'm like, I don't know. Like I really don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like so I maybe it's just
Megan 1:14:06
fresh to I think it's a fresh thing? No, because not a lot of people are honest like that anymore. And a lot of people don't just you only live once so right not to say it. What does it hurt? You know? Yeah, I look at it. Well,
Scott Benner 1:14:18
Megan, I went off on a tangent today, but that's fine. And I enjoyed it my podcast, I can do whatever I want. You have anything left? I know you're at work, you have to get back to work. So I have one question for you about work. And then I just want to ask you is there anything we didn't cover that you wanted to know
Megan 1:14:35
just I think that the only thing I can say is thank you like to you because just listening to your podcasts and also like your Facebook group. It's helped tremendously and the people I work with even and my endocrinologist I think it's just amazing because like you said earlier when you referred me back to certain episodes, I mean, they do help a lot. It does make a light bulb go off for me and I'm able to kind of I understand that disease because it's scary. I have days where I'm fine. And then other days where I'm like, so freakin exhausted just thinking about like waking up in the middle of the night because the damn thing beeping or you know, the phone going off telling me I'm higher and low. And it's just, I'm so grateful to have your podcasts and for you being direct and aggressive and things like it is. And I don't think that there should be any other way to anybody talking like that on the podcast, just saying,
Scott Benner 1:15:29
Thank you. I appreciate the call. I'm very happy that that's valuable for you. I swear to you go listen to the Pro Tip series. It'll change your management things will be more stable. And I think you'll you'll be happy that you did. Now here's my question. How often do you get to drive a school bus?
Megan 1:15:44
It just depends. This year, I haven't actually had to drive it. But last year, we were hurting really bad. I had to know every single day. Oh,
Scott Benner 1:15:51
you had to get out of the office and run around for them. Oh, no, kid. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. It's fine. Yeah. You know, back when I was a kid, my school bus used to go over this like hill. It was like a like a train. So it had to slow down and then speed up and then the back. I don't know if they're probably designed better now. But if you sat in the back couple rows of the bus, when it went over the hill, it was like a springboard. So if you know about this, so as like they still do it. Yeah. So as it goes over the hill, you just bounce in your seat. And if you're lucky enough to catch the up on the bounce, you fly up into the air. And I one time watch the kid do it. And he flew up in the air so far. He went over a couple of seats like turning over in the air and came crashing down in the aisle. And we were all like, it was so great. Oh my God, no, that would make children cry.
Megan 1:16:45
Oh, no, I've done that before. I've actually cuz there was a dip in the road. And I didn't know that there was a dip in the road. And I'm driving and I'm going the speed limit and I hit it and the kids all I thought because where the drivers mirrors I like the them going all the time. They're like, Can we do it again? I was like, No, you can't do it again.
Scott Benner 1:17:03
You really can. I there was a school bus driver in my town that winter, like jail. Like they had like, some sort of an accident. That kid got hurt in the thing. And I and my daughter got off that Boston said like, I didn't do anything wrong. And you know, and they they put him in jail for a couple of months. It's I mean, it's terrible. Yeah, but anyway, I
Megan 1:17:23
take a lot of that. That's serious. I
Scott Benner 1:17:25
mean, you probably should take seriously Yeah, but it's a serious
Megan 1:17:29
equipment, right? Yeah, no, I just I think sometimes though, it just it's sad. Because you've got that many kids on the bus. I don't think people realize that that those buses hold 71 passengers. Yeah, a lot of kids imagine being in a bus with a small pack space like that was 71 Little kid screaming
Scott Benner 1:17:44
kids that are trying to get you sick. Little. Exactly. I can hold on one second. Thanks for doing this
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#1130 Grand Rounds: Human Story
Scott and Jenny discuss the human side of diabetes.
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1130 of the Juicebox Podcast
Welcome back to the Grand Rounds series today Jenny Smith and I are going to be discussing the humanity of type one diabetes, that healthcare is a human story. We don't want doctors to forget that part as they're helping us and treating us. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that it really helps the show
this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the insulin pump that my daughter wears Omni pod, learn more and get started today with the Omni pod dash or the Omni pod five at my link Omni pod.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that check them out at touched by type one.org. So what are we doing today, Jenny? We are going to do? We're going to do a topic that I don't like, I don't like what I have typed above it is its moniker. So we have to like hammer this out. First, I just have the word humanity and mentality which, you know, aren't that descriptive. I think they're meant to lead us in a direction. But I don't know that they're a good title for an episode. So when you think about doctors needing to consider the humanity of the person that they're speaking with. And I think what did we mean by mentality when we wrote this down?
Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:52
I don't know about mentality. But I do know, I remember sending you either an email or a text about us remembering to discuss that. Like healthcare is a human story. It's not just all about data, it's not just all about numbers and lab results and that kind of stuff. There's, there's a person behind all of this, and you have to remember that maybe in their you know, when you're talking to them, how their mental health is affected in the way that you discuss something with them,
Scott Benner 3:24
right. And when you talk about that, it makes me want to expand on that. They're not just, they're not just the person that's in front of you. They have relationships and responsibilities and other problems and joys in their life and all these other things. And you're asking them to do this incredibly, a difficult and time consuming task that feels like of course, you know, the outcome is life and death, you know, to them, of course, and, and they need to go fold this in to the rest of their life when they get home. You know what I mean? You can't just I don't know how they how you, you know, I'm saying
Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:04
and folded it in a way that's very, it's not like folding in a medication for your heart. Right, right. It's not like taking a pill every morning at six o'clock and be like, Oh, that's it for the day. Not until six o'clock tomorrow. Do I have to take another medication? Right. folding this in is really like it becomes a piece of you.
Scott Benner 4:23
Yeah, yeah. You have to like Teach them that the routine is what makes it feel like take a pill at night am like so like What do you mean what I mean by that is sure it's simple to send someone home and say take one of these you know dinner, make sure you eat first. Great, right? Even by the way people have a hard enough time with that.
Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:44
Right? Absolutely. Thus the pill minder apps and all
Scott Benner 4:50
with the days Oh, by the way, the first time you get a pillbox is my experience, but you go ooh, I'm old. Damn. It happened. I have a box with my five Consider, but yeah, like people have a hard enough time remembering to take a pill with a meal. And then one miss day turns into two miss days. And then that thing happens. I watch it happen here in my own house sometimes. My daughter said to me the other day, she takes vitamin D, she needs to write she has to her vitamin D level drops without it. And she misses it for a couple of days. And she goes, I haven't taken this in a couple of days. And I feel fine. Right? Yeah. And I'm like, well, that's not how that works. But what happens when I don't Bolus for my meals, but my blood sugar goes up to 200. But it comes back down, but I feel fine. And I feel fine. Right? Yeah. So okay, so there's that part of it, why don't we go through some of the feedback, and we'll find out as we go. The first thing is from a listener that says, this can be very difficult, and mentally and physically exhausting. And you and I kind of translated that into like, you know, offer people grace, which I know is a is a hot thing to say nowadays, you know, to give someone grace, but what do you think that means for you? I mean, you're personally diabetes, what are you looking for from a doctor?
Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:04
Right. So you know, from a doctor, the piece when I talked to my Endo, especially who's she's super great. And even her nurse practitioners really nice. Grace is not being nitpicky, from their angle of picking out just the one particular day, which was just your like, Crap show of a day, right? Well, what happened here, like, clearly, there's a wider picture. And as a clinician, you can see the scale of how things have been. So instead of picking things apart, you do have to give a little bit and if something is brought up, in that case, by the person to say, Hey, don't pay attention to this, or, you know, I was on vacation for these days or whatever. But you do have to have a little give and take back and forth in order to work together, you know, person with diabetes and care team. I mean, my doctor always asks me, What is it you know, we need to pick apart today, what is it that you really need from me today? And I think they are as a person with diabetes, you have to be ready to come to your clinician as well, with some thoughts
Scott Benner 7:12
that they ask you. You're a person who people come to and ask that question of all day long, like help me, when you go to your doctor, you ask them for help. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. And before I tell you about Omni pod, the device, I'd like to tell you about Omni pod, the company I approached Omni pod in 2015 and asked them to buy an ad on a podcast that I hadn't even begun to make yet. Because the podcast didn't have any listeners, all I could promise them was that I was going to try to help people living with type one diabetes. And that was enough for Omni pod. They bought their first ad. And I use that money to support myself while I was growing the Juicebox Podcast. You might even say that Omni pod is the firm foundation of the Juicebox Podcast. And it's actually the firm foundation of how my daughter manages her type one diabetes every day. Omni pod.com/juice box whether you want the Omni pod five, or the Omni pod dash, using my link, lets Omni pod know what a good decision they made in 2015 and continue to make to this day. Omni pod is easy to use, easy to fill, easy to wear. And I know that because my daughter has been wearing one every day since she was four years old. And she will be 20 this year. There is not enough time in an ad for me to tell you everything that I know about Omni pod. But please take a look. Omni pod.com/juice box, I think Omni pod could be a good friend to you. Just like it has been to my daughter and my family.
Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:55
Absolutely, there are things that I bring in as questions in my I've gotten to the point of knowing that my questions really have to be what I can't do myself or what I've got relevant, like questions about that I'm not able to take care of because my own diabetes management clinic. I don't really need my endo for that. But there are other pieces to that other considerations, especially as you get older, when to have these types of evaluations for like heart health, and this type of an evaluation for this firm, Women's Health kind of perspective. And those are all things that I expect them to have a good answer, not that I have no clue about them. But I want a little bit more direction. And so I can come to my doctor absolutely with questions. Do I send even though I look at my own reports, I send my reports to my doctor because if they don't have in between information to keep up with things, then it's kind of like a load that you're piling on their plate, three, six months worth of data and you expect them to figure something out about it. Right.
Scott Benner 10:06
I'm glad to hear that that's your answer. But I also wanted to ask the question to point out that, you know, for all the people who you're like, Oh, they're a nurse, they understand it, or that person's a doctor, I don't need to explain this to them. That's not the case normally. So you know, you can't just disregard somebody because you think they might understand it's right. Yeah, I think that's important. Also, isn't it interesting. When you show somebody a report a graph with, I don't know, a one seat, it's in the low sixes and not a lot of variability and looks great. But there's a couple of bad days here. Why is it your thought to say, Oh, my God, what happened here? Instead of? Wow, so much of your time is so well managed? Congratulations. Like you don't I mean, like, you picked up the one problem. That's what the person remembers when they leave? That is, yeah. And it
Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:00
is human nature to pick for the bad. Like, you see, I do it a lot with all the people that I work with to, you know, they come in either having emailed a bunch of things that they definitely are, we got to zone in on this, you know, and whatever. And I see those questions, and they're important to address. Absolutely. But I also really tried to look at the wider scope, and say, if we could filter out these, these incidents that you think are the majority of the time, you'd actually see that like, 80% of the time, you're doing a phenomenal job, like look at all of this, and these little, these little blips that you don't want, that have become what you're highlighting. They're not the big picture.
Scott Benner 11:42
It is fascinating, isn't it? That as people it's not our inclination to, to gravitate to the things that are going well? Yeah. It's just really, it's not it's not the only place that happens. But it's one of the places where it's, it's really important. So if you're a doctor, and your mom always picked on you, like, don't do it other people. Oh, I mean, I wish all my doctors respected my desire to understand my disease. And there are treatment options. So this is a person telling me, I want to be included in this. And it's not enough for me to be even doing well, I need to understand how we got here. Right? Yeah, I need autonomy. I need. Because that's not just about management. I think that's about psychological comfort to it is
Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:28
yeah, absolutely. And I think that all goes along with meeting the person where, where they are, as well as where, what are their goals? What are your targets? You know, I as a clinician may have targets and ranges and things that I want to help somebody get to. But you have to know where is the person starting? And what what are their immediate goals? And how can we bring things together so that they kind of both meet in the middle? In a way, right? And understanding is a big one, then, for people who have this particular goal, and you really would like to see them get a little bit further. What do they understand about how to get there?
Scott Benner 13:12
I think that maybe far too often, a doctor or it doesn't have to be adultery, any personal interaction, right? between two people. I have an intention about what I'm saying. And you hear something else. And listen, here it is bare bones. It was pouring rain here last night, and it's trash tonight. And my wife had thrown a bag of garbage on the back step. And that's not the direction of where the garbage gets taken out. So it's raining, it's late. I'm like, I gotta take it. I waited all afternoon thinking it would just stop for a second. So I could just bet Okay, now I'm all bundled up and everything. And I say to my wife, I'm gonna get wet, and I am complaining. I'm like, I'm gonna get so wet. But anyway, I'm gonna go out to the trash. But I'm gonna walk around the back of the house to get this one bag of trash that she put out back. Instead of bringing it through the house. It's been outside, it's been raining, and she's mopping the floor in the kitchen. So in my mind, what I was thinking was, I don't want to bring the bag of trash to the house because she's just mopped it. I don't want to make a mess of it. But when I said, Oh, I gotta go all the way around the house to get the bag. I'm gonna get soaked. She thought I was complaining about the fact that I was going to get wet. And I was confused. I stopped and I was like, Wait, what's happening right now? Like, I'm seeing this nice thing. And she's taking it wrong. Or maybe I'm saying it wrong. So I stopped and I just said, Hey, I want to be clear. I'm not upset about getting wet in the rain. I'm trying to save the clean floor that you just made. And I'm gonna go back out. When I said I was gonna be all wet. I meant I didn't want to walk all wet through the house. I'm trying. I'm trying to respect what you're doing. But that simple little moment between two people who've known each other for like 30 years, there was that confusion. So when you look at a person and in a healthcare situation, they go Hello What happened here? Right? You might mean, hey, this graph looks terrific. We just got one little problem. Let's fix it. Let's fix. You didn't say that the way it's taken. Yeah, right. So you didn't say that, or they didn't hear that one way or the other. If you walk away from that conversation having not clarified, you now have a problem. And you'll never get you'll never get rid of it again. So
Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:20
well, and I think what you really what you just sort of pulled all together, without probably thinking about it is the word communication, right. And that's what all of this, all of these that we've kind of put together. Now, they're all about the right type of communication. And communicate communication means that there is an understanding from both parties. And as the clinician, you have to make sure that what you're trying to either teach or discuss is not only being received the right way, but also that there's an understanding that's taking place so that there isn't miscommunication where somebody then gets irritated or angry or walks out. Thank you. Ah, I didn't get any of my questions.
Scott Benner 16:06
Right. Here's the next thing on our list. Let me see if I'll say something, you tell me if you agree with it. Okay, if you're a type two, using insulin, or you have type one diabetes, your management is pretty much the same. take insulin, big picture, not very, like not granular big picture, you're gonna take insulin for food, you're gonna have a background insulin, pretty much the same. Yes, you and I talking about it here. We get what we're saying to each other, right? Yes. But if you say it like this to them, This person says, I was told by my endocrinologist that it didn't matter if I had type one or type two, my treatment would remain the same. He asked me why it mattered to me. Why does it matter to you, if you have type one, or type two diabetes? It's going to be the same either way? I wouldn't have said that to a person. But I was comfortable saying what I said to you. Right? You know, like, why would you add on that little thing? At the end? Why does it matter to you? I almost cursed who would say that to a person. It matters to me, because it's me. Because
Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:07
it's me. And because I think that that clinician is also missing the grander picture of we know, in the diabetes community, despite many people not wanting lines being drawn, there are very hard lines drawn between I have type one, no, I have type two, and the community is learning to work or the communities are learning to work together, which is great. But there still are very drawn like, no, no, I have type one is not type two, and that clinician
Scott Benner 17:44
is not seeing the picture. Yeah, well, you know, I'm probably gonna say something I don't mean to share with people. But whatever I'm trying to help. So to Jenny's point, I've tried very hard, I've had this podcast for like, 10 years now. And I've tried very hard to have a one tent mentality about diabetes. And I do it pretty well on Facebook. And I do it pretty well, here, I don't have a ton to share about type two. But you and I put together a really comprehensive Pro Tip series for people with type two diabetes, a great primer, something get you going if you don't understand that your doctor is not being very helpful. And Jenny knows this, and only a few other people in the world know this. But I knew when I was producing that material, that I was going to lose a certain percentage of my listeners for presenting type two material. And I did, I
Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:32
put out a type as you've been seeing mainly as a type type one. And
Scott Benner 18:36
but I think, moreover, that there are a number of people with either type one or type two diabetes, that do not want to be associated with the other side. And so most of 2023, I spent rebuilding the listeners I lost from just offering type two information. And by the way, don't get me wrong. It wasn't like, here's three weeks of type two information. It's in the course of a five day period, which I put out five episodes, for like eight weeks in a row, one of the five episodes had type two information. And it angered or annoyed people to the point where I lost, I think about 600 listeners, right, which is good. I think
Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:15
it had started as you kind of mentioned with the comment from this clinician to this person, right? That's unfortunately that's where it kind of gets lost is how you're maybe how you're diagnosed or how you're told about it. And honestly, the lines in terms of the types of medications now are very blurry between type one and type two. Yes, there are some very well and very specifically defined meds that are really type two or the reason and the how they were in the body that you wouldn't use in type one diabetes, right. But now a lot of the meds that are available despite them being classified or whatever, you know, prescribed as a type two, they're finding an awful lot of benefit in type one. And so I think we've got this line that's getting blurred, that despite being two distinct conditions, for different reasons, management is kind of crossing over, honestly.
Scott Benner 20:18
Yeah. And I think what Jenny's saying, like, without saying it is that you're gonna see GLP medications used more frequently with type ones in the future. Yes, I'm gonna have people on the show this year, handful of people who are type ones who, you know, maybe started for weight reasons, they got weak ova or something. And then they started seeing all the impacts on their, on their health. We're seeing people using it for like, PCOS symptoms, and they're having a significant reduction in their insulin. So yeah, it's possible that maybe this issue goes away moving forward. But for the moment, just look up, see sports, politics or anything else. People like being on a team? And yeah, you know, so and by the way, that part of the conversation aside, how about, he asked me why it mattered to me, that might not have nothing to do with that person wanting to be on Team type one or team type two? And maybe it's just I'd like to know what's happening to me, please. Right. You know,
Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:14
and honestly, as we've said, there are now I just said, there's there is a distinction between the reason between type one and type two in the majority of cases, right? And so for somebody to say, Well, I just really want to be in one or the other. Because there is a different community aspect, as well, in either one or the other.
Scott Benner 21:37
How about I'd like to look out for the rest of my family and see, you know, maybe I maybe I could be going back to my sister and saying, Hey, listen, you have a kid, like, look out for this, because I have type one diabetes now or, you know, who knows? Like, there's so many reasons why. I have some feedback here that says, I want the doctor to know that when I go in, in with a problem, it isn't always related to my diabetes. So that point is a good point. But for this specific conversation, I think what that means is Don't look at me and just see diabetes, please don't go, oh, that's a diabetic. If they're complaining about this, it must be because they have diabetes. Maybe it will be. But I think you make a mistake when you do that. And I can only relate a personal anecdote. But when my daughter was young, I taught myself. This was before CGM, so she'd come home from school, I didn't know where her blood sugar was. I was worried out of my mind, about the 20 minutes that was between when she texted me, I'm getting on the bus and my blood sugar is this. And when she actually got home, I first had to stop myself from standing at the door, like, oh, my god, are you okay? You know, and then I realized I can't ask her what her blood sugar is, when she comes home right away. It's dehumanizing. It really is. And you you might not think it to hear it out loud. But it is you are it's a dehumanizing thing to have someone look at you and say, What's your blood pressure? what's your what's your blood sugar? What's your but like, it's like, I'm a pull person here, you know, and so I take this person's point. But in that specific example, if someone comes to you and says, I'm having headaches, don't treat them like a diabetic having headaches. I mean, maybe you can in your mind and like be looking for things. But also they get real people sick too, which is a thing. People with diabetes, say because, right, it's so misunderstood, you know?
Jennifer Smith, CDE 23:37
Well, and those are the cases that I think some people because they have gotten to have a relationship with their Endo, and maybe don't really use their primary care as often because they just don't get sick, or they don't have some of those minor things, sometimes a lot of endos or endocrine nurse practitioners or whatever, they may actually feel some of these questions that are, I've got a headache. And so they are in one particular field of care, you know, diabetes, and obviously the other kinds of things endocrine takes care of, but they have to think first is this relative to diabetes. So those questions may come out from the clinical side of consideration. But then their job is to also say, you know, what, everything looks really great, you know, in in your numbers in the data that you've given me, and I think that this is a consideration for your primary care. I'm going to refer you back here, or I'm going to refer you to ask for this type of, you know, clinician to seek out and get information from because you can't expect your endocrine team to manage all of your questions. Their job is to consider will this have impact on your diabetes? And if not, I'm going to refer you. Do you
Scott Benner 24:58
know that there have been times We've taken my daughter to a specialist for something else. And I'll tell her when we go in, do not mention your diabetes. At first, like, let's explain what's happening, get their unbiased opinion of what you've said. And then we can layer that on afterwards. But that's just I've just found if you walk in and go, I have type one diabetes. And that's it, you're done. Like, they're going to just their brains gonna checklist down, find the thing that fits and not bother thinking about your issue. Now you tell them at some point, but I'm like, let's get it out first, and let them really consider it. Right, you know, they'll get a confirmation bias, and they won't even know what's happening. Right? This is something this person says, I wish that my doctor understood that shaming and judging me and other patients for not checking our blood sugar as frequently as they think we should, is absolutely not the way to get them to check their blood sugar more often. It makes me resent coming to the doctor.
Jennifer Smith, CDE 25:54
And from an explanation standpoint, or a clinician, again, there you are, it's really important for you to explain more about why you're asking for this, right? Not the blame game of, well, why aren't you or I don't see enough information here. It's what's going on? That's a problem. Right? What else in your life is kind of deterring the ability, you know, to get this information, and from a clinical Is this the reason this would be really helpful, you've brought in these other questions and these other things that are bothering you. And if I had a little bit more information, I might be able to say whether or not diabetes is really a piece of this or not, right? So,
Scott Benner 26:44
you know, it occurs to me while we're talking that if if you are listening to this, and you don't know you and I, it could almost seem like we're doing some Ultra woke like, be nice to me or like, you know, we're not, we're not, we're trying to sit, we're trying to say, the way you start is the way it finishes. And that people are going to be obviously unique and different and hear things in a ton of different ways. But there is a way for you to approach everyone, whether it's, you know, me or you or a little kid in a way that you can get the information you need from them, help them and not leave them in a situation where they're resenting you as they're walking out of the office. Like, even if you're right, like, I want to say that like even as a doctor, if what you're hearing right now is I need to know how often they're checking their blood sugar. This is very important. I think it is too. I'm not saying it isn't? Yeah, I'm saying that the way you get that information can go a long way towards building a good relationship. And by the way it you know, it might sound like I don't have time to figure out every person that comes into this office, I know exactly how they want to be talked to. But that's not really the case, there is a way to approach this, that covers everybody. And you don't have to have 1000 different statements to get you to your answer. There's there's ways to talk to people where you don't leave them feeling badly about your interaction. So that's what I'm talking about.
Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:09
As a clinician myself, I always consider it from how do I want to be approached when I come in for my own visits, right? And, again, the reason that I like the team that I work with is because it always seems to start the way that I actually start a visit or a conversation with the people that I get to work with is like, how are things tell me about your family? And what's going on? And like, oftentimes, like the first five ish minutes or so is just how are we like, how are things going in the past month since we last talked or emailed or whatever. And that's what I expect when I come in, you know, I know clinician visits in office, they're limited in time. So there's only so much that you can expect them, you can't give their whole life story for three hours. And then finally get to what you need to get to. But there is that human side of connection, that may very likely open the door to them providing enough information for you to then give them what's really important.
Scott Benner 29:07
Well, what you end up giving them eventually to is this autonomy to make decisions? Yes, which is what you want, you know, you want to give them confidence, and enough tools. And you know, like lead them in the right direction. Once they go do something and watch it go well, and then they get excited and do a better job. And then before you know it, it's commonplace, then they're just going to be in there asking you for their prescriptions, and hey, how are you? How are the kids and let's go, and everybody's healthy and happy and what you want. It's doable.
Jennifer Smith, CDE 29:37
It is doable. And I think that those tools, you made a good like connection there and those tools that you may use to give somebody they change based on the person. And if you spend even five minutes in a visit, in which you start to get to know somebody's life, and what's going on the tools you pick out of your toolbox to help them they're going to be specific Add to that person's need, you're not going to tell them to do this when their time constraints are ridiculous in their day. And even though you want them to do something that's time consuming, you can now say, okay, they don't have time for this, I have to, I have to figure something else out, that's going to be relevant to get them to do what I think is important, but that they can do they
Scott Benner 30:18
need a win, too. They do. They need a win to build on, everyone needs a win to build on. So you got to you have to find a way to give them one. It doesn't fit here. But I just had an experience with somebody yesterday. And that's what I figured out. I was like, she's just she's drowning. Like, she just needs to take four breasts in a row where she doesn't feel like she's drowning, and it's gonna get better. And I'll tell her this one little thing that will move her in a better direction. And sure enough, two days later, the content and tone of her message. This is by the way, I'm not even speaking to this person is just typing the content, the tone of this lady's message shifted in 48 hours, and now she feels empowered. That's it. Right? Not that hard. By the way, this one is written like it's from a listener, but I think this is huge Eddie. Oh, don't tell your newly diagnosed patient that you need to see them again in three months only for them to go out to the counter and find out you're booked out for five months. Yeah,
Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:15
that's really annoying. Yeah, it is. And I think it's the reason that many offices, again, endocrinology, specifically, there are not enough endocrinologist, there are just not and when you break it down even to pediatric endocrinologist, they're even less, right. And then thankfully, we're now bringing in more nurse practitioners and PAs into endocrine practices. So that, you know, if it's six months until you can see the endo will maybe in three months, you can see the PA or the nurse practitioner and you do kind of a handoff back and forth every three months. But you're you're right. I mean, if you've been told to check in, and the check in point is going to be six months down the road, instead of two or three, you're left hanging in this in between void of, well, who is going to help me here? Am I even gonna get an answer back is somebody going to look at my information? This
Scott Benner 32:14
is Jenny talking about it from like a maintenance, like a management perspective, I'm going to talk about it from a psychological perspective. You just told me, it's very important for me to come back in 90 days, then I walk outside and the girl that things like we can see you in June, I was like, June, it's December, she said for me to come back in three months, we can't do that, right? Is that important? Is something bad gonna happen. She said, 90 days. And you leave people in turmoil, always causing them turmoil and churning up their guts and then sending them on their way to be by themselves. It's confusing very much is, I wish my doctor would not have connected food with guilt, because that was a mistake that lasted a lifetime. Yeah. So it does suck. But as bad as that is to do to a person who doesn't have diabetes and isn't using insulin, it's maybe 50 times worse to do somebody using insomnia, you freeze them. And either cause I mean, you cause an eating disorder in one way or the other. They either restrict their food, or they just go woohoo, I'm not going to pay attention to this. Right? It's terrible. Like you can't do that. There's a
Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:20
and a major, a major part of your diabetes management is tied to food. It's insulin. Right? So now that you've tied this piece that's necessary, I mean, two pieces that are necessary for human life, right? We've got food, it's a basic necessity, we have to have food, not too much, just enough. But you have to have the insulin to get the food in the right place in your body. And so now when you connect them in a negative way, they say, Well, you know this all about this food, and oh, there's too much here and oh, look at that. And all these blood sugar changes that we don't want to see. Oh, this must have been a really horrible meal. You see, though, oh, that was the bring in? Well, gosh, should I just eat lettuce or nothing at all? Yeah,
Scott Benner 34:02
there's an entire movement right now of us identifying a problem. And then blaming the person that's happening to you could ask an eight year old at this point, what's the problem with food and American? They're gonna be like, Oh, it's processed and not good for me. Blah, blah, blah. And then you know, you go don't talk to my kids. Your kids don't know Jenny, raise those kids. They think a carrot is candy. And so but but you know, most people are gonna say, oh, yeah, I know there's a problem in the world processed food, fast food. It's troublesome. So much soda. You know it, our bodies can't handle it. Everybody understands it. But then when you get to the How to functionally help somebody, that's their problem. They're eating it. Have you ever driven around America and tried to stop and getting some deed? Good luck finding something I'm using we go V for weight loss. So now all of a sudden, I realized that in the past, if I was traveling, I would just eat what I could get my hands on. Even if it wasn't something I would Normally, but now I'm very careful not to eat like high, like anything that's fatty or greasy, even once in a while. And I have found myself going, there's nothing for me to eat here. And then going to another place and going, there's nothing for me to eat here, there's no food, I'm gonna have to go into a grocery store and get an apple. I can't physically walk it. We've set up a society, where this is how food has gotten restaurants, convenience stores, those sorts of things, and then fed people a ton of bad food, and then told them in the end, it's their fault for eating it. It's all they have. Right? You know, so I don't know how that happens. Like, how do you say to somebody, or you live in a volcano, your problem is your feet are hot. Thanks. Can I suppose to do with that? You got shoes that don't get hot? Can I? Can you hang me from the ceiling? Is there a like, don't tell me the problem. I know the problem. Give me an answer. Anyway, that's
Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:58
no, that's 100%. Correct. And I think there are too many. I mean, this is a hot, this is a hot sort of piece in my mind that it bothers me when when clinicians who have no nutrition educational background, dole out blanket statements. Yeah. Right. Because one, you have to be blind to be completely or, you know, unaware of what's going on in our food society. The majority of the stuff that people call food, or that is readily easily available, is it's not hard, right? And I wish there was an easier way to define it. But it's also the reason when you go in a grocery store, the grand majority of that grocery store is not stuff. That's really great for anybody to eat. The tiny little natural food section.
Scott Benner 36:54
That's the food. The rest is tastebud Playland there. Yes. Yeah. But but that's fine. But then don't as the doctor slip into bro science and be like, it's your fault. Right. Great. Thanks. Do you want me to do I make $250 a week? Could you help me? Yeah, hey, I don't know what to do it anyway, it's you're blaming people for a thing that you can say they're in control of, but if you look at the big picture, they don't have any. Yes, they're in control, but they don't have any choice. And so it doesn't matter. They're doing the thing that that's keeping them or at least they're eating, and they're staying alive. You know, and they probably were brought up thinking that it was good. Anyway, cheese. All right, now I'm all upset. Don't tell people they're non compliant, there's a free tip. You can think it if you want. And I know you probably have to chart it for, right, but you can't let them say it either.
Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:48
Well, and that's the thing too, with today's you know, II charts and everything that are readily available, and even electronic medical records that now we have access to as the person who has the health condition, right? When I log in, I can absolutely read everything that was written in the doctor visit, right. So I think that word in an overall it should be totally removed. Because I think there are very, very, there's a very minimal amount of people who that truly would even apply to, and even that minimal amount, it's very likely the fact that they're not, they're not by choice, non compliant. It's there are things in their life, that are not allowing them to know enough about what to do, even in the simplest way that could make things better. And that's your job as a clinician again, to get to know them, and figure out how to help,
Scott Benner 38:46
right. And also, by the way, there are going to be times where you give information to a person that knows better than you. And then you think they're non compliant for not listening. And if you think that's a crazy statement, then I'll introduce you to the 1000 people who've told me that they've lowered their a one C safely and in a healthy way and then go on to the doctor, the doctors tried to tell them to put it back up again. So you know, that actually happens to people as well. Caretaker burnout, you should include that conversation when you're talking to parents or people who are helping adults with diabetes that this and this kind of leads into the other part I want to I want to finish up here with is that I understand that the doctors might be burned out as well. Yes, you know that they have this compassion fatigue, maybe, you know, and that it's hard to like, I would imagine it's hard every 20 minutes to be like hey, how are you? What's going on with the family? You know, like I just did this with the last person being so needed like that being so needed from you not fake by the way if you fake happy people read that in two seconds, like Oh, absolutely, yeah, you can't fake the happy like you have to really mean it. And you have to have if there's good communication skills, and you know all For people real empathy, not like, right, you know, I know I'm supposed to say I feel bad for you. I know this is hard, but you know, and
Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:08
something that I've found to within that realm is the ability, the ability of the clinician to connect as a person to. Right. A lot of times, we've heard that term like white coat syndrome, right? And to take that down a notch and bring a comfort level in, when you're asking about somebody, many times they'll ask, well, how are you? And that's not a well, how are you? I just want to know that you say, Well, I'm okay today. Most often, they're really they're interested, right? And if you, if you give yourself a personality, or if you give a little bit about you, and how your life has been and whatever, you don't have to give where you live and where your kids are going to school or anything, buy real, something, something real, something that's that's connectable, right? That makes you, I guess, and the information you want to provide a little bit more receivable.
Scott Benner 41:06
Yeah, sure. You be a real person, although, yeah, some of us are going to run into doctors who are fantastic doctors, because their personality lends themselves to understand science and sit and study for years and everything. And maybe sometimes that doesn't lend to like, you know, personality, personality. Yeah, like, like, like a real life. Not that they're terrible people, but they just might not be like gregarious, and, and inviting sometimes and stuff like that. I mean, it can happen to anybody, but I'm just saying, I've met a couple of doctors who were brilliant doctors who, you know, you're in there, you're like, oh, was this heart? Yes. Great doctor, but hoof. I mean, what's the way to say that like, no bedside manner, what that really means is they lacking communication. But I don't come in and say, Hey, I fixed your toe, I put the ligament back on there. Let's do the exercises come back in six weeks, it's gonna be fine. You know what I mean? Like, this is a bigger thing. It's a lifelong thing that this last little bit here is this person says, sometimes it's like, they don't realize that I've been living in this body longer than they'll ever spend hurriedly glancing over people's notes while rushing into an office to talk for five or 10 minutes. Yeah, don't minimize my experience. You know, and I don't believe a physician rushes in and out, looks at your notes, tries to help you and thinks I'm minimizing this person's human experience. Right? They don't think that but no, this is how it's received. You just wouldn't know that. So in the end it Jenny, this is why you'll hear people say over and over again, if you can find an endo who has type one diabetes. Bolus? Yeah, yeah,
Jennifer Smith, CDE 42:48
absolutely. Or, you know, a clinician in their office that they are using for their education piece, right, either a certified diabetes, you know, educator or they're working with a, an, even a dietician or a nurse in their office that participates in some of the education that they have type one diabetes, and those are the ones that I hear from, in terms of the people I work with that I really love my office because of this one person, right? They really get it or they're always taking my calls, even though I know I call a lot. They're taking my calls, and they're getting me some information or some answers, you know, so, listen,
Scott Benner 43:28
I've heard this story a handful of times. And it's always lovely. It's like you said, like a nurse practitioner who has type one, or somebody else involved in the practices in the room, maybe when you're talking to the NFL, and they'll walk you out and down the hallway. They'll lean in and go Juicebox Podcast, and people and people people go want to go you want to listen to the podcast, it's called juice write it down juice by know what the doctor just said. But listen. So yeah, having somebody who really gets it is very helpful, but I appreciate you doing this with me. Thank you very much. Thank you.
A huge thanks to touched by type one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Check them out on their website touched by type one.org or on Facebook and Instagram. A huge thanks to Omni pod, not just my longest sponsor, but my first one Omni pod.com/juicebox If you love the podcast, and you love to Bolus insulin pumps, this link is for you omnipod.com/juice box if you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes
if you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series, it begins at episode 1000. In your podcast player or you can find that at diabetes pro tip.com or juicebox podcast.com. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way. recording.com
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