Scott Benner 7/28/21 Scott Benner 7/28/21

#515 Chris Dudley

In 1987, Chris joined the Cleveland Cavaliers and became the first person to play in the NBA with Type 1 Diabetes.

www.chrisdudley.org

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to Episode 515 of the Juicebox Podcast.

In the 1987 NBA Draft, the Cleveland Cavaliers chose Chris Dudley. He went on to play 16 seasons for a handful of teams and even made it to the NBA Finals once. He also has type one diabetes, and he runs a camp for kids with type one, called the Chris Dudley foundation. You can learn more about it at Chris dudley.org. Today, Chris and I are going to talk about a ton of stuff playing in the NBA being diagnosed with type one playing in the NBA with type one, what it was like to face Michael Jordan, his camp, and all the other stuff that popped into my head while we were chatting. While you're listening to the show today, I'd love it if you could remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with this.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo hypo Penn. Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, I want you to go to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box right now where you can learn more about the Dexcom g six and even get started. It'll be the best decision that you've ever made.

Chris Dudley 2:06
My name is Chris Dudley, from diabetes perspective. I got diabetes in 1981 when I was 16 years old, playing the NBA for 16 years and we started the foundation in the Christopher Reeve Foundation for kids with diabetes in 1994, about 25 years of basketball camp for kids with Type One Diabetes. I kid kids from all over the country all over the world really with that kids from globally. And he just 10 through 16 boys and girls and and we've also done a lot of other outreach for for diabetes as well.

Scott Benner 2:50
Can you think back to when you develop the basketball camp originally? What made you do it?

Chris Dudley 2:57
Yeah, you know, so I so backing up so 1981 and really dating myself here, but it's alright. You know, obviously diabetes was in different different spot. It was who's tough. And when you got diagnosed with diabetes, it it was a you know, I tell story that the first thing I asked the doctor is am I gonna live. And by that I didn't mean next week or whatever. But how long? What does this mean? Because at that time, it meant a shortened lifespan. So it was, you know, it just rocked my world. And then it was of course what I still be able to play basketball and got the affirmative on both which which wasn't always the case back then. Sometimes they discouraged athletics activity because of the risk of of getting low blood sugars. And so fortunately, that was changing. That's when studies were coming out and saying activity was good for your overall health, your blood control. seems obvious now but at the time, it was a it was a concern. And so So anyway, fast forward and go through high school, go through college make it into the league, I was the first and only player to play at that time in the NBA with Type One Diabetes. And it was I was almost you almost didn't want to let anybody know I did. But yeah, I really wanted to establish myself as an NBA player and have diabetes kind of be an afterthought versus should we sign this guy because we don't know we can make it right. Once I prove that and and more people became aware that I had in the diet in the diabetes community that I had diabetes, I get a lot of letters from kids or parents. How do you do it? How do you What's your game day route? What do you what do you eat? What kind of insulin? How do you how do you play an activity with with having with while having diabetes. And so I'd always been asked about doing it. Most pro players are about doing a basketball camp get involved with camp. And so my wife, my wife, and I came up with the idea with squids combiner and which have a have a camp for, for for kids with diabetes. And so the long winded answer is that it was really the Genesis was really the outreach from kids and parents asking, you know, and just realizing what a need there was for

Scott Benner 5:40
right. Wait at that time. So, so you're diagnosed in high school? Imagine you're playing in high school, you go to college and play. Is it? Are you just like using regular mph? Did you just kind of shooting insulin in the morning and an evening and kind of eating on a schedule?

Chris Dudley 5:55
Yeah, I'm trying to remember. I think I started off doing that. And then at some point, pretty soon after I went to the mall, I shot a day. Okay, are you taking a shot before? Before every meal?

Scott Benner 6:14
They call it fruit? Now you're getting basil once on a meal mealtime ends? Yes. Did you test very frequently.

Chris Dudley 6:19
I did. You know sometimes better than sometimes more than others. But with with playing with playing sports, you really felt like I had to write. And you know, on game days,

Scott Benner 6:33
I would test as many as 16 times on game day just to really have it dialed in. Right. And so did you. Looking back? I'm assuming now you manage differently. You have a pumper. You still MDI?

Chris Dudley 6:46
I do net. So now I have the Omni pod. So I have the pump. And then I have Dexcom Dexcom. So

Scott Benner 6:55
So now you have a real vision into what's happening. Like looking back. Were you playing at an elevated blood sugar? Or do you not even know? Yes, yeah.

Chris Dudley 7:02
Yes. I think it definitely was. Because, you know, if you're playing, you know, practice is one thing but a games another. If you're playing in front of 20,000 people, you're more worried about going Whoa, going on? Yeah. So So yeah, I definitely do and I would. Looking back, I would have loved to have had a Dexcom or something. I mean, I'd love pump too. But just to know what my blood sugar was doing? Would have been in nano kidding.

Scott Benner 7:33
So I, I asked my son, I was like, what should I ask Chris? When I talked to him? And he was just like, well, you have to ask him what it's like to play against Michael Jordan at some point. And I was like, Okay, I'll see if I'll see if he wants to talk about that. But yes, happy to. Yeah, no kidding. But But staying into the diabetes for a second longer. If you're elevated, like, do you think you were at a deficit? Yes, no kidding. I

Chris Dudley 7:59
do. I think, you know, I took a lot of pride in I never wanted to miss game because the diabetes, I really never wanted diabetes to be an issue. And I felt like, you know, right or wrong, I felt like an almost an obligation for those in the community to show you know, diabetes isn't going to prevent me from from playing and show that you can play in the NBA and, and I felt like I established that early in my career where a couple years where I think I played all 82 games, or if I missed a game. I never missed a game because diabetes. But in doing so. I also know that there was times that I was either worked, you know, borderline wlos. or certainly it may be higher blood sugar. And there were plenty of times you know, I joke around with kids that you know that I never missed a game. But there were plenty of games where I had I was running up and down the court having drank three cans of apple juice or something to get my blood sugar up, right. So it wasn't wasn't always easy. And I think it would have been a lot easier or better today to kind of be a little bit tighter control right? With all the technology and not to mention the speed of insulin increased in in the 90s right it keeps it keeps improving but there was a rapid when we went from Oh, wait from that regular human log or whatever it really Yeah, it really helped.

Scott Benner 9:41
Did the coaches and players know I mean, and by No, I mean, what did you play with some people who flat out didn't know you had diabetes? And did you play with people who knew but didn't pay any attention to it?

Chris Dudley 9:53
Um, well, everybody would have known I think, but there might have been some Who just didn't pay attention?

Scott Benner 10:05
Right? Well wouldn't even understand I would imagine to.

Chris Dudley 10:07
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm testing my blood sugar in the locker room before we're going out. And so I mean, it wasn't like, so they would know that the person who had to really know and be dialed in was the train trainer, of course. And with coaches, they knew, but I really didn't want them to have to think about it. Think about it. Yeah, that wasn't there. That was on me and the trainer to do that to be ready, when when your number's called. And

Scott Benner 10:35
the fear there is that if they feel like there's a weakness, then there's a reason to put somebody else out there instead of you. Whether it's diabetes or anything. Right, right. Yeah. Okay. Wow. That's a lot of pressure. How did you do that for 16 years?

Chris Dudley 10:49
Well, yeah, you just get in a routine. I mean, it just becomes your Yeah, you're kind of your way of life. Yeah. Yeah. And I think with the coaches, and let me differentiate. In case we have any younger listeners or players is that a number one in the NBA, you have a full training staff. And so having that relationship with the trainer takes that pressure off if you're in high school, or, or younger, or club basketball, or whatever the coach has to know. And be very, very aware of it, right? Because there is no trainer. There's no intermediary.

Scott Benner 11:28
Yeah, so it's you and your parents. Exactly. There still is that pressure, my daughter's going to be 17 this summer, but when she was younger, she played softball, like fairly competitively, meaning that they were like a winner. So away from going to the Little League World Series when she was 12. And she only had one bad low while she was playing. And it was enough, she was at third base. And the inning ended and she gestured to me came through the dugout and said something's wrong. Like that's all she said. And she had a low that was in the 30s and 40s, it took a while to come back up again. But when her bat rolled around, even it like back then 10 1112 years old, I think she felt pressured to go hit because she did not want anybody to think that this was gonna stop her from doing that. And I don't, I'll never get into her head as to why. But I watched her go hit with a blood sugar that was maybe only 70 and had just started coming up and she fought through it, but you could tell something was wrong with her. I wish she was a little older when that happened. So I could talk to her about it. But

Chris Dudley 12:32
and you know, the thing that and that's great point in that. What's tough, too is is you know, with with diabetes is you get that well and yes, you can recover in your blood sugar's back up to 70 and going higher and getting to get to 100. But you still don't feel right, right, you know that the low blood sugar can throw off it, I've found that even exercise now that you know, a kind of a giveaway for me that my blood sugar is going down? Or is my balance is off. I just don't have the same. I can just feel it physically. So it's to your earlier question. Yes, you can you can make it you can play and but but there are, it does affect you. I don't

Scott Benner 13:14
know if you'll want to answer this. But is there ever a time where you're running down the court thinking I shouldn't be out here?

Chris Dudley 13:20
Ah, there was times where I was like, I need a timeout.

Scott Benner 13:27
Somebody foul somebody, I just want to know that you found somebody one time to get a break. That's

Chris Dudley 13:33
well, you know that well. And the thing is, and again, everybody as diabetes knows this is what's so hard about it with playing is or can be difficult is that you're by you still have everything else that everybody else is going through, right. I mean, either we play 82 games, there's times where you have a cold or you don't feel great or you can get a good night's sleep, and it's hard sometimes to differentiate, I feel off is my blood sugar. So when I say I want to timeout it's not always that someone was saying I need to test to make sure because I was I didn't have that confidence that that I was not that I was maybe going in sometimes he tests me like, no, you're fine. It just you just don't feel good. Because people who don't have type one when they feel off their next thought is and I wonder if I have too much insulin I'm about to pass out in front of 35,000 people exactly.

Scott Benner 14:27
Yeah, that's that's a it's a good point. And now would you mind if you know what were your Awan sees when you were playing? Do you have any idea?

Chris Dudley 14:38
They weren't they were two sevens. I tried to get below seven but you know and the ANC is is great in a lot of ways. But the and now we're talking about time and range i think is is more important because with the agency. I would have good agency sometimes but I might have been you know What 50 plus 180? is when you know, I mean, you can,

Scott Benner 15:05
yeah, you can fool the test by having a lot of lows and a lot of highs and seeing it bounce out. I just know that that was the only way that they paid attention to it back then your, your point is 100%, right time and range, less variability. That really is a great measure of health. I was just wondering, I mean, but sevens were, that was probably better than what the ADA was asking for at that point.

Chris Dudley 15:27
Yeah, no, I think so. You know, I, you know, I've worked, I worked hard at it, to try to keep it you know, to stay in range. So,

Scott Benner 15:36
when you're a professional athlete, it just, there's an inference that your body is just that it operates differently than some people's. So do you have to back then were you eating? Like, they like the guys now? Like, the guys now look like superheroes? You know what I mean? Like, you look like a tall man who was athletic when you played like, the guys now look like they could grab you and throw you if they wanted to? Did you eat more specifically? Or was it more like? I don't know, it wasn't like cheeseburgers and basketball, like, what was the vibe? Ah,

Chris Dudley 16:09
it's good. Quiet, you know, that was always a struggle with the, with the trainers and trying to get, they kind of had to balance that out where they would try to get good, it was kind of funny, they would try to get healthy food on the when the planes when you're, when you're traveling or the team meals, and then they found if it was too healthy, kind of like with our kids. It's too healthy. Nobody's going to eat it. And kind of defeats the purpose. So I was, you know, I was aware, but I don't think there was the emphasis that there is today on on what you're eating by

Scott Benner 16:47
on a fine tuning of

Chris Dudley 16:49
what do you know, it's kind of fun. I mean, I played with some guys who did literally like could eat a hamburger before the game and go out and just kill it and you know, kind of laugh about country strong and just right. I mean, what guys are just tremendous athletes. It catches up with the waiter, but they were I couldn't do what they did. But but just I think that's where diabetes, actually is that there are some blessings on diabetes are some advantages and one is you do get to know your body better. And I did go through the process of Alright, what what is my body work better? What type of food is work better with? Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:26
it just occurred to me that over the last couple of decades, as we understand nutrition better, that it doesn't just happen overnight that there is a transition of talking generations into believing differently. And I watched my son's 21 now he plays college baseball, and right up until about a year and a half ago he had that like just here I'll take a handful of this and that and you know you're running out on the field with a doughnut in your mouth almost you know in between games and now as he's getting into 21 years old, he's like, I don't think I should be eating this and I was like yeah, I don't think so either and he doesn't have type one my daughter does but it's just very interesting to see that happen in my mind like you know you always your your head goes to ideas of you know, old baseball players playing you know, with hangovers and stuff like that and and being the best. Alright, so I just have to ask you,

Unknown Speaker 18:21
Jordan,

Scott Benner 18:23
just the so much better at the time than everyone else, or it still stacks up today.

Chris Dudley 18:30
It still stacks up today he to me he's the best player ever.

Scott Benner 18:42
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My daughter turned 17 years old yesterday. She got her driver's license, gave her a cupcake and we went out to dinner. When she woke up this morning. She went to the beach with her brother and some friends. Just like most 17 year olds, she slept in a little bit in the morning and got up but not quite enough time to eat before she went to the beach. She got a car. They drove to the shore. They spent a few hours on the beach and they came home the entire time. I could see Arden's blood sugar on my phone. Why is that? Well, it's because Arden's wearing the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor my wife and I could both see Arden's blood sugar on our iPhones. And if we had Android phones, we could see it there as well. Arden can share her numbers with up to 10 followers. And so can you dexcom.com forward slash juice box. One point I sent Arden a text that said just this was that food. And what I was talking about was that I saw her blood sugar kind of go from 191 30. And she said, No. And I said hydrate and Bolus. And she did. And that was that dexcom.com forward slash juice box, the speed and direction of the blood sugar are available at your fingertips on your iPhone, your Android, or you can use the Dexcom receiver. So if you're the person with type one, and you don't want to look at it on your phone, you could use the receiver or you can use your cell phone, the apps are terrific. And sharing with other people is amazing. Seeing your blood sugar, and the speed it's moving in. That's life changing. Please take a second, Get started today. With the Dexcom you will not be sorry. If you're using insulin, seeing your blood sugar in real time is about the best thing that could happen. It allows you to make these great decisions with insulin and with food. And you get to see if things are going right or wrong. So next time, you can say to yourself, Oh, you know what did a unit for that went up to 140 and kind of sat there corrected later with a unit. Maybe next time I'll use two units for that. I don't know something like that. These are made up numbers. But you get what I'm saying right? You see what happens cause and effect, and you get to make better decisions next time. The links in the show notes of your podcast buyer will take you there. The links at Juicebox Podcast comm will take you there but you can always just type it in dexcom.com forward slash juicebox g vo glucagon comm forward slash juicebox. And don't forget he's not a sponsor. But he's doing such a great job on the show today, Chris dudley.org All right. Let's get back to Chris and the story about Michael Jordan. Just like how I let him answer the question I'm do a cliffhanger on you. Bet you weren't expecting that.

Chris Dudley 22:39
I was fortunate I got when I was in college, I went down to work jobs at the basketball camps down at UNC where Jordan went and he would play during summer so I got to play with him during the summer. And then obviously my he's a couple years older than I am but I was played mostly during his time and had a lot of when I was a kid when we played the ball a couple times early in the playoffs. And what Jordan Jordan to me was, you know wasn't is the best player to play again.

Scott Benner 23:16
Yeah, I saw my my son tries to make the point that even the fifth guy on a bad team is incredibly athletic now, and I try to read like I try to retell the best I can I always go to the one story where I tell him. I was watching the game one day and and Michael Jordan turned his ankle completely over, like his foot went underneath of his leg and it was bent sideways and you thought for sure he'd never walk again. And he stood up and hobbled, hobbled, hobbled, hobbled and then ran. And I was like, I don't understand. You know, you ever see Reggie White's knee hyperextend. And then he leaves. It's an amazing video, his knee goes backwards. The way it's supposed to go forwards he leaves the field. If you're a Philadelphia fan, you think I'm never gonna see Reggie white again. And two plays later. He's back out there playing. And I'm just like, I don't understand how that happens. Like now some people just get amazing gifts, you know, physical gifts like that. So you bring him back right now. 25 years old, drop him in the league. He's the best player in the league squared. Really? No kidding. So how do you keep up with that? When you're like when you're everyone else? What's the plan?

Chris Dudley 24:26
It's hard enough. And I think the game has changed, but it was a different. I mean, there's some things that are better today. Probably they're they're definitely the skill level has gone up as far as the outside. There's such a premium on outside shooting. That has definitely changed but the game then was so much more physical. So the counter argument to is could some of the guys today be as successful. Back then, back then, if they're getting ready every time they go. They're laying there. Someone's punching him in the ribs. said they're getting in touch. So, you know, that's so funny you said it's just a different deal. And I do think the one and we've we've kind of touched on it. One huge advantage you have today that would have played out for guys back then is, is the nutrition, the strength, medical, they don't play the same. They take off back to backs they rest more they it's just a it was more of a grind even more of a grind back. Especially in especially when it first came in the week than it than it is today. It's it's a little bit and part of it is the dollars that have gone. Gone into it that are in the league. I think there was a an article about LeBron, and that he spends, I don't know, was close to a million dollars on someone. Massage and nutritionists and cook and this and that. And for good reason. I mean, he's unbelievable. Yeah, he's a freak of nature. And he takes he, he works at it. And so I think that's changed to an extent. It's helped.

Scott Benner 26:09
I guess it's sort of the way people drive a show car. You only take it out on Sundays when it's sunny driving a little slower. And you you played in a time where they're like, Listen, we're driving you every day until you fall apart. Even someone else will come. But even the length of your career. Was that even uncommon back then?

Chris Dudley 26:29
Yeah, no, it's, well, you know, the average. I mean, some guys do it. But the average in the league is three, three years. So there's a lot of turnover. And if you get past 10 Yeah, it was definitely uncommon. You're, it'll be unseen today, because guys come out earlier. So they start younger. When I when I played, there were some players that came direct or a couple years in, but even Michael Jordan was a junior when he came into the league, a junior in college, right? So they're younger. So it'll be just, it will be interesting to see if they go, they can go as long

Scott Benner 27:12
or not. was their club like did you know Ron Santo and Bobby Clarke? Like, did you have a mean? Like, did you guys know? Yeah, or No, those

Chris Dudley 27:20
were my heroes, but I really didn't know him. Okay. And so I was well, where I grew up in. I lived in Philly till I was 12. And so I was a big fan of the Broad Street Broad Street boys. Philadelphia Flyers went back to back Stanley Cups in the 70s. So I was huge Bobby card pant, before I got diabetes. And so when I found out he had diabetes, that was huge for me, and very

Scott Benner 27:45
inspirational. So I grew up in Bucks County, right outside of the Northeast. And okay, and I have to tell you, when I found out Bobby Clarke had type one diabetes, it was only like 10 years ago. And then you think back to how he played. And I don't even understand, that doesn't even make any sense, you know? But I guess it was a different time. I don't know Sam fold is. He's a GM of the Phillies now. But when he was on the podcast, he just told me when I was playing, if you saw me in the outfield chewing gum, I was lower. I thought I was low. And if I was chewing seeds, I thought I was okay. That was like, the extent of what he would do. You know, it's, it's really fascinating.

Chris Dudley 28:22
Well, I remember when I was a kid here in it, the flyers practice would have they'd always have orange juice and like a chocolate bar over on the bench.

Scott Benner 28:29
And that was forgotten. Yeah, that's crazy. It really is. Okay, so how do people find out about the foundation? And what do you want from them? You want them to learn about it? You want him to donate to it? You want him to come out to a to an event? What is it you're trying to do? And how are you handling this with COVID?

Chris Dudley 28:48
Well, so Chris, God, we got to work. Look up the foundation. And and obviously, we're nonprofit and we always accept donations. Because we're putting on camp every year with this would last year would have been the 25th this would be the 26. Last year we held camp, but it was virtual. So and unfortunately this year, we're back doing the same it's either virtual or we may try to do a couple I may go to different spots and meet with kids a few different places. We're trying we're looking into doing that. But we just couldn't hold camp this year because because the COVID because of the restrictions that are in place now. And it just it really breaks our heart that we can't do it the camps normally indoors or outdoors. Outdoors so it's uh you know, back east and you got the Poconos

Scott Benner 29:56
night. Sure.

Chris Dudley 29:57
So the camps up there. It This is Kind of that kind of setting. Okay, and it's an outdoor with bunkhouses outdoor courts, swimming pool rolling hills and you know volleyball court and so it's great. It's a great outdoor bunkhouse kind of what which kind of envision camp? Right.

Scott Benner 30:17
That's amazing. I have more questions if you have time. Yeah, I do. So do you have any other autoimmune issues? thyroid, celiac.

Chris Dudley 30:28
I've been on a thyroid. I take a thyroid, blanking on the name right now but I took a thyroid pill every morning centroid centroid Thank you. No problem. Yep.

Scott Benner 30:39
How long? When were you diagnosed with that? And is it hashimotos? Or is it hypothyroidism? Do you know is it autoimmune or is that? Not?

Chris Dudley 30:48
I think it's hypo. I don't think I think it's the latter. I think it's a I've been on a you know, probably 15 years. I think maybe more than that. I just know, I've been taking this for forever. And it's been with just taking the one pill every morning. I've been.

Scott Benner 31:06
It's been good. So after you got on playing this happen?

Chris Dudley 31:11
You know, that's quick question. I don't even Yeah, I think it was right after it.

Scott Benner 31:14
Okay, when I say Yeah. And do you remember? Where you lithologic hair falling out? Like, do you remember what led you to it? Or just the blood test caught it?

Chris Dudley 31:23
It was just a blood test. They just said you're a little either a little higher, a little? Well, whatever it was, right? We recommend this bill. No kidding. So that's what I have. Other net? No, we have a number of kids at Camp who have celiac. And yeah, different than we would have some diet, things that we do a camp for kids.

Scott Benner 31:48
Yeah, there's there's definitely an increased occurrence of things like that even low vitamin D seems to be really common with people with type one. It's just it's interesting that I like to ask people how about in your family line? any other type one in your line?

Chris Dudley 32:04
Yeah, my uncle. So my father's brother had diabetes passed away now. But he had diabetes from a young kid on so my father when I had to sit and I had the classic symptoms, you know, being incredibly thirsty and having to go to the bathroom and he caught it earlier than probably normally would have. Because of my uncle. And I went went to the drugstore got the I think it was called test tape back then and

Scott Benner 32:34
peed on it. Right? Yeah. Different world that you got on you that fell on your cell phone? What your blood sugar? I know, it's such a different world. Yeah. And it really is something because you live through and had diabetes through a couple of leaps. You went from one insulin to another kind of insulin, you went from one testing to another time. And now this would you? If they told you that they could implant cells in you that would start making insulin again and give you a medication that would stop your body from killing the cells? You would do it? Or would you not? That's good question. What are the side effects? Yeah, right. Well, that's the obvious first question, but I don't know. I'm just my bigger question is as somebody who's lived for this many decades with type one, are you looking to get rid of it? Or do you not think about it like that anymore?

Chris Dudley 33:29
Um, I'd loved it for there to be a cure. And I have to say I'd love there to be a cure not so much for me, but for the kids and for others, because I've learned to live with it. And so it's But yeah, I mean, when my way is, you know, technology is great when it works right when when you get a bad you're in a meeting and the pumps goes bad are you I don't know if the what device you're on. But if you've gone through the doorway, and you've caught your pod on your you know, whatever, or you're on the plane and all of a sudden it's like bad pie, you know, all that stuff that the the nav, I think the toughest part is just the 24 seven of it that you just don't get a break. So yeah, I'd like to be certainly would want there to be a cure. But but but again, I would rather you know, kind of tell I don't think the kids at my camp, I don't know that they're going to live through their whole life with having diabetes. I think we're getting closer and closer. It's amazing. I

Scott Benner 34:33
had there was a gentleman on a couple months ago and there's this drug that right now when you get diagnosed, if they catch you early enough, they put you on this drug and it can hold off the onset for like years. It's fabulous. You know,

Chris Dudley 34:46
in fact I'm involved with a company here up in Oregon that's working on. We have tests a screen that will show Are you at risk of getting Are you going to get Type One wind. Yeah, if you and and before used to be. And they've been trying to do the screen. And this is a much quicker, easier test and what's now where you got it, you got to do it, send it back to the web and wait a couple weeks or whatever get the results. Before it was in I talked with my wife about this, you didn't necessarily want to give the test to your kids when they were young, because they're going to get, you know, take blood and all that. But because there was nothing you could do about it. Now you can do something about it. So that's very, very exciting that you can

Scott Benner 35:33
Are you talking about trialnet? Yeah, sure. They were on recently to a lot of people were they Yeah,

Chris Dudley 35:39
yeah. So trial net, and knowing it's a much bigger their, their pitch for people to get tested is completely different now than it was even just a couple years ago. Because now you have something that you can actually enter was thoughts that you could do certain things, give a little insulin do certain things to kind of prevent it before. But now we know concretely that you can postpone it, which is, which is awesome news.

Scott Benner 36:06
It's amazing. Technology. It's it's some of this newer stuff is the closest stuff I've seen, that seems like it's you uses science that we understand now. And that it feels like it has like an endpoint. It's not just like, we're gonna try this and see where we get to. It's really cool. And But with that, you know, I

Chris Dudley 36:24
think it's I think we're getting so much closer and closer, closer, but you also don't want to be you still got to deal with the diabetes. And you still you don't want to give newly diagnosed

Scott Benner 36:37
people the feeling that they don't have to take care of themselves, because it's gonna go away. Yeah, I tell my daughter, look, I lived with the hope that somebody will figure this out. But I don't expect it. I guess that's the difference. Like I hope but I don't expect my daughter's a once he's been in the mid fives for seven years. Now. She doesn't have any dietary restrictions. Like we've like this podcast, what we usually talk about is how to use insulin in ways that keep you you know, from spiking and having problems like that blank screen. Yeah, it's very cool. But at the same time, I like knowing that people are out there working on this stuff. It's interesting. No, I

Chris Dudley 37:15
do too. And I just throw that caveat, not not to be negative. But it's I remember parents telling me and this is your 20 years ago, or even when I was hanging on, so it was like, well, there's probably going to be five or 10 years. You know, and that was just that's what they said. Yeah. Yeah. So so it's like, yeah, I think we're getting in worthy. Whether there's going to be the magic pill kind of cure with no side effects. And I don't know if they're, or it's just gonna be the technology just gets better, better better. And we're on the closed loop system, or whatever it

Scott Benner 37:52
might be. It's just getting so much better. My daughter's using an algorithm and I have to tell you that we were really good at it prior and there's things to learn when you're using an algorithm adjustments you have to make but I have not slept so well as as I have since she's been on that it to see the algorithm take away basil to stop like, drifting low blood sugar is amazing. And it just it unless you really mess up overnight. She doesn't get low

Chris Dudley 38:20
overnight. And would you mind me asking what kind of what are you guys using? Yeah, Riley wink or anything like that. So she's,

Scott Benner 38:28
she's looping right now. Yeah, so she loops with an omni pod, a Dexcom. And we actually use the orange link. It's a new link that came out that seems more stable for us. But I'm excited to try on the pot five, because it eliminates the link. And it eliminates the need for me to understand how to build an app and keep it on our phone and things like that. And she's going to be heading off to college soon. So I would like it to be more retail, I guess. And on the orange, how is orange different than the Riley's? Yeah, I don't honestly know. I just bought her Riley link was Boston up because she drops it all the time. And and I went to buy a new one. And I bought the orange one to try it. And I'll just tell you that. I just told somebody this in the podcast the other day, but I am in a two story house. And Arden was in the dining room with my wife at the end of the night. She went upstairs with her phone, but forgot the orange link behind but her bedroom is above the dining room. And we never knew it kept it kept the algorithm running the whole time. So yeah, so it's really cool. I mean, and just it's somebody made that that there's a guy somewhere who's like, I'll do this, you know, it's really fascinating, but I am excited to get the Omnipod five and give it a whirl and see how it goes. But yeah, I think algorithms are the future. And I hope everybody who wants one can get one financial Yes. It's really something. Your kids did you ever test your kids?

Chris Dudley 39:55
Ah, yes. And they've no God. I mean No, no, but no diabetes, obviously, and not at risk. Okay. And I

Scott Benner 40:05
guess my last question for you is, because I'm assuming you've been married for a while. He's your wife at all, you're smiling, like as I happen? Is your wife at all involved in your diabetes? Or would you? And to what level? How does that work for you guys?

Chris Dudley 40:22
Well, early on, I mean, she was awesome. And she really dove into kind of understanding that, and you know what diabetes was, and really helping me with diet and diving into that control and making sure it's now you know, a big deal. Obviously, especially before, we've been able to get kind of a tighter control with all the technology we're talking about, but a big deal and even today is worried about low blood sugars when you're driving or different things and really making sure she always made sure I was prepared really helped me with, with with with my diabetes, and not letting me just not forget about it or ignore it. You know, it's great. Because we all go through that emotional, right, I think we all go through it. I know our campers do, but at times where you just want to like, I just don't want to deal with this. But still, she's been awesome. That's absolutely awesome.

Scott Benner 41:26
You know, it's funny, right? About an hour before you and I did this, my daughter's going to school virtually from our house. And I got a notification. So my, my Dexcom is set at 70 and 120. So I got this notification, she was going over 120, which we don't usually see. And I walked in and I was like, what's going on? She goes, Oh, my pod ran out of insulin, I forgot to tell you. And it was just like, like, like a half an hour ago. So he starts drifting up. And that was the thing you were talking about before. I think like, even when you're good at it, and you've been doing it forever. You almost forget the technology, which is a blessing. But at the same time, you know, you see more newly diagnosed people are like, well, I changed my pump at this time. So that it it's ready to be changed. Like you don't do that after a while, you know? No, so she just shut her camera off and stood up and we swapped her pod real quick. And she sat back down and she was on her way again. But yeah, it's a really different world. I don't think that my daughter will ever appreciate how you grew up with diabetes. I don't think she'll have any preference

Chris Dudley 42:21
for no and I, I think rod sail he taught you about Nimrod, Santos. But it's amazing to me that he played a time before testlets. Yeah, it's like, how did you do that? That's just incredible. And, you know, he, someone I didn't hear him tell, but I've heard the story taught of him going up to bat and having double vision and, you know, tell a story. Of course, he just he had to guess which ball to hit. And he hit the right one, and you know, home run or whatever. But it's just, but the fact that what they dealt with people before, even before for myself is amazing. And what he went through is incredibly difficult. And even Bobby Clarke was much more difficult than what I went through is definitely but it got it's gotten better and better and better and better. It's just easier. Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:13
baseball does fascinate me too, because it is such a schedule. And when it's when they're not playing, they're traveling. And you hear guys, like, you know, I don't know how far my son's ever gonna go. But he's, he knows guys that play. And some of them stopped playing because of just like the mental fatigue of it. Like they just can't keep up in their heads anymore. He had a friend that was in the White Sox organization. And the guy said, first of all, I got there, and we were all like the exact same athlete, he says, which is really a bummer, because you're not better than anybody all of a sudden, you know, and he goes, and then it's just every day and then on a bus. And he's like it was it was just hard to keep up, you know. But then, like you were saying earlier, then put Type One Diabetes on top of that. It says it's a hell of an accomplishment. It really is. You know, especially, you know, I don't imagine that they see you as I mean, I don't know, but do you really get seen as a person? Are you like a thing that the team owns that they want to work? You know what I mean? Like, are you are you a tool? Or are you a person and how much? How much of that is your problem? And how much of it is theirs? Right?

Chris Dudley 44:15
Yeah. Well, it's I do remember once, early in my career, wait for the I was in New Jersey and Bill Fitz, which coach training camp I was, I was struggling with my control. And I mean, there were times in training camp where I would go with two days, you're just going so hard where I almost didn't take into it. And you're just because a hard what your body's going through. Right. And it was a different day. They don't do that the same way anymore. Sure. But it was brutal. But I remember I was kind of maybe had to sit out and was just having a hard time with it. And he just kind of pulled me aside and said hey, we pay you a lot of money your professor and he was great guy and he Right here for me, but he said, You, we, your professional, we pay a lot of money. Get out of control. Yeah, figure it out. And it was it was a little bit of tough love. And it was, I was like, Okay,

Scott Benner 45:13
how old do you think you are then? We said Jersey is probably 25. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, you know, I guess. I mean, honestly, do you grow up? This? It's got nothing to do with diabetes, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but you emotionally grow up slower? When this is your life? Like when you're doing something like this, it's on a national stage, you're good at it, you're making money? Is there not the need to be mature? through your 20s?

Chris Dudley 45:45
No, no, I mean, I would say. And that's one of the reasons sometimes guys who asked, they don't ask you guys, you kind of, you know, you find out quickly. It's a it's a, it's a job, it's a profession. I mean, it's great. I mean, writing the wrong playing with the best talent in the world playing on TV. It's, it's, it's, it's incredible. But it's a job and the ones you see. And that's why teams always want they want to have a few veterans around, they want the veterans kind of mentor the guy, because the veterans are the ones. Take it cert, you know, they're the ones putting in the time. The successful the most successful players, it's usually not that hard. Obviously, they're incredibly physically gifted, but they're also the ones who put in incredible amounts of time and really treated as a profession. Right. So the answer question, yeah, there are some that are immature, especially when they first come into weed, and kind of falling, you know, have money in your pocket and the attention and all that, but the ones that last are usually turned into a job. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 46:49
It makes a lot of sense. I treat this podcast like a job. I have to be honest. And if I didn't, I mean, these things would seemingly have nothing to do with each other. But if I didn't treat this, like a job, it wouldn't exist the way it does, it would fall apart. Right? It's just, it's crazy. Is there anything I didn't bring up that you were hoping to talk about?

Chris Dudley 47:10
No, I just think with Well, you know, with our foundation, yeah, maybe what I'd like to touch on with the foundation and and you asked earlier, we'd love for people yet to go on or go on our website at Chris duffy.org. And with the camp, and the thing I found is that that the initial thought behind camp was that kids, it'd be awesome to teach kids how to play basketball I have in type one diabetes, and that that is awesome. And some we do and we we teach them about the diabetes we teach them about it's basketball camp. So it's a it's a two in one. It's a regular basketball camp that's wrapped into with diabetes, but the rip, but some of the real value of camp has been getting to know others who are walking in the same shoes. And just how important that is, when I grew up when I got diagnosed 16 sophomore in high school, I really don't think I knew anybody with diabetes that or I didn't have any friends with diabetes. For years I didn't in high school to college, and it can be kind of lonely. I mean, you have friends, but there's certain things you just can't, it's just not the same. And I think that connection that happens there a camp when other kids now our campers, they stay in touch all year, all year long. And they don't with through social media, whatever. But I think that's invaluable, because so often we have, we have a camp, we have on a Thursday night, we have this thing called pass the ball where someone, you go up front, and you kind of talk about something, you hold the ball and pass the next person that comes up. But some of the stories people tell you that breaks your heart of just how alone they are, how they're ostracized for having diabetes, or whatever, whatever it may be, and kind of a teen years are are tough without diabetes, but they can be very tough with diabetes. And so I think that's something for us all to just kind of keep in mind. And that's why I love that you're doing this this podcast. And I love that you're kind of having that stretching the diabetes community, because it's I love talking about I mean, it's helpful to kind of pick your brain you pick, you know, whatever. I think it's so important. So when I say, look, thank you for what you're doing. And you know, that's what we're doing with our campus. Well,

Scott Benner 49:37
I appreciate that. I appreciate that you're doing it. And I'll tell you that when I started this, I really just thought that I was a person who wrote about diabetes. And people would tell me that when they read the stuff they had, you know, better control for the lack of a better way of saying it real quickly. And when I made the podcast, I thought that's what the podcast was going to be about. I just thought it was gonna be about talking about how to use insulin, how to have better outcomes. But I meet people and interview people who love the show, who who already understand how to manage their insulin, and never needed the show for that they needed it to hear another person with diabetes, tell a story, or to realize that other people like them, which is such a trite thing to say, but it's incredibly true. Like, you need to have a community and if you can't find it in person, finding it, you know, like, this is apparently pretty valuable. And I did not expect that. So yeah, it's very cool to be able to bring people together. And I'll tell you, we do i do topics that I don't think most people talk about, there's a woman on here two weeks ago, who's got bipolar disorder and diabetes. So grow on here trying to shake heroin addiction and type one, like you said, there's other things that go like there's real people life, and then you get diabetes on top of it. So we have people on all the time talking about difficult stuff. And, and it would be your inclination to think well, you know, don't have a girl on who's done heroin, like people won't like that. But that's not the truth. The truth is, is that there's a lot of people live in a lot of lives. And a lot of them have type one diabetes, too. So it's very, like I really, I really appreciate you coming on and, and sharing all this with me and, and I just, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. Yeah, no, my pleasure. Absolutely. Thank you. So no, great. Hey, Kelsey, can you jump back on for a second? Hello, Kelsey, I'm still recording because you're a fan of the show. You get to talk for a second so you can hear yourself one day when you're listening to this. Oh, awesome. Thank you. That was pretty much it. Do you have type one as well?

Unknown Speaker 51:36
I do. Yeah, I've had type one since I was seven years old. Right. And you.

Scott Benner 51:41
You work with Chris through the foundation?

Unknown Speaker 51:43
Yes. Yeah. I worked full time for the Chris Dudley foundation and help out with camp every summer and we're looking forward to when we can get back in person.

Chris Dudley 51:52
I just wanted to record. Chelsea's got a great story. So Kelsey was a camper. Kelsey, what age did you come in 10. First 10. So long time lifer camper. And then Kelsey met her husband, who also has type one at camp.

Scott Benner 52:07
Kelsey, you met your husband at Chris's camp?

Unknown Speaker 52:10
I did. Yeah. He came as a basketball coach. And I was working there and we got married last May.

Scott Benner 52:18
Chris did that mean you had to pay for the wedding? I don't understand. I got off because it was a nice wedding. COVID wedding? COVID. Oh, no kidding. Oh, she you just got How old? are you now? Kelsey?

Unknown Speaker 52:33
I am 20. I will be 29. In about a week.

Scott Benner 52:35
Wow. Good for you. Are you thinking of having little children? Yep. Someday? Did you? I'm aligned with what Chris was saying earlier about? Some people don't want to know. And some people want to know, do you think you would test your kids?

Unknown Speaker 52:48
Yeah, for sure. It's definitely something I kind of go back and forth on because like you guys were saying it. You know, nowadays, there's the technology so that if you do know, there's stuff you can do about it. I think when I was younger, and I would hear people talk about it and be like, Well, why would you do that, then they just have to sit there and wait for it to happen. But now there's so much technology that I think it would be interesting to see, especially with both parents having type one. Well, Kelsey,

Scott Benner 53:15
I think you might have heard them already. But the pro tip series might help when you decided to be pregnant one day. And I don't know if you've heard the I had Samantha on. So Chris, I this girl came on with type one who I interviewed her in her first second third trimester. And then I interviewed her postpartum as well. And it just so she could talk about what it was like to be pregnant with type one. And I hear from a lot of women that it's helpful. So I'm not rushing you, Kelsey, but you are 29. So let's get

Unknown Speaker 53:44
no, that's awesome. I have friends as well that I think would really enjoy that.

Scott Benner 53:49
That's really cool. Well, I appreciate you. I know Kelsey reached out and Chris, she found me for you. So I'm really grateful for and I would just want to listen Say hi to her. Alright guys, I hope you guys have a great day. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you.

Well, I'd like to thank Chris from the Chris Dudley foundation. Chris dudley.org. I want to thank Dexcom for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Also, a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. g Vogue glucagon, find out more about chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL Uc? ag o n.com. forward slash juicebox.

Hey, this is gonna be like months from now. But I also recorded with Kelsey, from the end of the episode, she was really great. I don't know when you're gonna hear that. But I enjoyed talking to her very much, in fact, and I think you'll enjoy hearing from her. Anyway, if you're looking for a great basketball camp, and you're out in the greater Northwest, definitely check out, definitely check out check out there, definitely check out Chris dudley.org to learn more about the Chris Dudley foundation. And I'm leaving all that checkout stuff in there, because I gotta be honest with you. I'm not perfect. Sometimes I get on a roll, and I'm like, Wow, I can't believe I got all that out without messing up. And sometimes I say Checkout, instead of checkout or checkout instead of checkout or whatever. I'm a little tired. It's late at night here. I'll talk to you guys soon. I really appreciate your listening, sharing the show. Last week, the show hit a million downloads just for 2021. So in 2021, we were at a million already. That was crazy. The show in total should hit 4 million any, any time. Now. I don't know if I've got a celebration planned around that or not. I'm not really sure what I could do. But I can tell you this. It's because of you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for listening. Thank you for telling your doctors, doctors, thank you for telling your patients. I can't thank all of you enough. This show would not grow without the fervent support of the listeners. And I know that I wish I could say thank you 1000 times. I'll talk to you soon.

#514 Sharing the Care of a T1D Child

The Psychology of Type 1

Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss burnout, emotions surrounding diagnosis, and dealing with diabetes distress and constructive ways to prevent it from impairing one’s function. http://erikaforsyth.com

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 514 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Hey, Erica Forsyth is back. You remember Erica, she's a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has type one diabetes, actually for more than three decades. She specializes in working with people with diabetes, and their families and caregivers. Today, she and I are going to talk about a lot of interpersonal stuff, relationships, managing type one when you're married, or with a partner. What happens when one of you is a little better at it than the other? All kinds of different topics today, Erica has been on the show a number of times. So if you enjoy her, check out Episode 407-440-5479 and 473. You would have thought I would have done this in order but I didn't. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you live in California, and you'd like to hire Erica, you can do that. I'll put our contact information in the show notes at the end of the episode.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, please check them out. They have a mission to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive. They have a ton of programs, you can find out all about them at touched by type one.org. Now if you love the Facebook, they're there and Instagram just the same. So Instagram, Facebook, and touched by type one.org. At that link find out about their annual conference, their dance program. They have a beautiful program where they send out information to newly diagnosed people. They call that their D box program. You can go right now and ask for a D box. Listen, it's a great organization. I speak at their events every chance I get. I'm really excited to support them. Don't forget that their programs and services are for those living with the daily reality of type one diabetes. They offer a supportive community with many interactive programs and creative resources designed to empower one to thrive with T one day. If you're interested, there are links in your show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast comm your comms Erica? Hi, Erica. How are you? Hi, good morning. Doing well. How are you? You're doing well even though I ghosted you last time we were supposed to record. Yes, okay. We can still be friends. I'm apologizing in front of people. So that you know, I mean, because I've been told that my apologies do not seem sincere. And so I want to make sure that I'm being sincere. I just messed up. And actually my calendar messed up. But I also know it's important not to blame other things when you're apologizing. So it's my fault.

Unknown Speaker 3:18
Honestly,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:19
I accept your apology. Thank

Scott Benner 3:20
you. It's Apple's fault. If we're being clear. We have a couple of questions here that seem to go together. This one from Katie, how do I handle disagreements between caregivers over management approaches? And she's sort of got a secondary question here that I think goes right along with it. And she says, How do I handle when one person is better at managing than the other? So that seems like a real interpersonal question, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:50
Yes, well, I think when we're thinking about caregivers, and couples, tried to co parent and co manage their child's diabetes, I would first want to take a step back and assess how is your relationship doing in general, while the diabetes could be significant, interfering and how and how you're relating as a couple? Are there? Were there other issues prior to the diagnosis? I would want to assess you know, your communication, your emotional and physical intimacy? And maybe say Is it is it appropriate before diving into how to manage the diabetes? Is it appropriate to go and maybe do some therapy or some work around your basic kind of communication skills and understanding of how you relate to one another? So that would be my first step. But if you feel like you're in a good place, as in your in your relationship with your partner, and things are going well in, in other areas of your life, then I would look at that then dive into the type One and first maybe understand I think, in your in your world to Scott, that it's just it's pretty natural for one caregiver to kind of be the primary caregiver. And that happens because as we know, it takes a lot of time and consistent work and understanding of all the nuances of how your child's blood sugar goes up and down based on food and exercise and all the small intricacies around that. So it takes time and unless both caregivers from the beginning, are equally spending the same amount of time understanding all of that it's natural for one caregiver to to understand it better.

Unknown Speaker 5:44
Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. I

Scott Benner 5:47
want to ask is this what it's making me feel like is this what would be commonly put under the heading of correlation does not imply causation? The people, people don't really like, I hear what you're saying, like you've now introduced this new thing into your life. But it's not as if we're all wrong walking around in a perfect existence. And now we have a problem. We have a lot of little problems that many of us have learned how to ignore, not necessarily deal with. And now this thing's pushed to the to the forefront. It is not ignorable, right, you can't you can't look away from yours or your child's diabetes, the way you could look away from snoring spouse, or you know, something, you know, even more, you know, impactful is that is that what you're saying here is like, you kind of got to get your ducks in a row before you can tackle this thing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:43
If you had the time, and we're able to do that, because I think if there are other underlying issues that you have either been ignoring, or you can still kind of function in that, you know, a normal, you know, quote, normal way, in a in a relationship. That's, that's one thing, right? Like, if you're, you're functioning, you're doing your work, maybe you're you're managing your children, whether you both are, you know, working in home or not are outside the house. But then yes, like this, this pace you can't ignore, you can only ignored, you know, you ignore the dishes ignored, like your responsibilities in the home. Yeah. And eventually, something will happen. But yes, you can't ignore this. But this could be this diagnosis could be the moment when you realize you know what, that we do need to deal with these other issues as well in our marriage or our relationship, so that we can then move forward together, whether that means one person is the primary caregiver of the type one or they you both are, but I would really encourage couples. For example, if they do come to work with me, we will work on the diabetes piece. But often I will encourage them to also go to either marital or relational therapy, to address kind of these other underlying issues.

Scott Benner 8:07
I'm going to say something that you might find crazy. But but that's amazing advice. And if anybody wants my opinion, go do that. But if you're not going to do it, or if you have a spouse who won't get involved, or you just say to yourself, I can't afford that. I know this is gonna sound crazy, but let's reverse engineer your, your understanding of the human mind. How do we put this into? How do we put this into a little tiny box that we can ignore? If we like, you know, I know that's wrong, but don't you think that's what's going to happen? In some cases, and we don't ever give people not you and me, but But in general, we give people great advice in the world, but it's not always followable for everybody, like how do we make it followable? For the people who don't have the time or the inclination? Who might be listening and saying, This isn't because I need to go to therapy. It's because my husband's a jerk. Like, like, you know, when you're thinking that way, like, Is there a Wait, wait, is this the wrong phase? It's like asking how to do drugs safely, although I've done an episode on that. So I guess maybe that is my question. Do you have anything? Like, are you just gonna, you can just say pass, but do you have thoughts on that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:22
Yeah, no, I think I mean, I appreciate that question. Because in reality, yes, it does take time, it does take money. It does take if you're going to therapy, and you have multiple children, you have to get there's so many you don't have to get a babysitter. There's so many things to in order to do that and prioritize your relationship and in real life that sometimes is feels impossible. And so I understand that and I get it. So if we were to say, okay, that's not a reality for, you know, this family, then I would then say okay, what's the set? What's the next best thing that we can do, I would say a couple things. I think, if one person is managing, quote better or has a better understanding of how to manage the child's diabetes, then there needs to be maybe a good agreement, you know, within your household of Okay, this person is going to manage the day to day. But at the same time, the other partner has to come to at least a basic knowledge level. And maybe that means going and listening to your pro tip series or having, you know, like, a day in a life of being the kid, the primary caregiver, to understand not only the time and energy it takes to be, you know, watching the CGM all night long and not sleeping, and dealing with the lows and the highs. Knowing that an X like a soccer practice is going to affect your child's blood sugar may be different than the soccer game, like all these small things that you get to pick up on if you are the primary caregiver. And so

Scott Benner 11:04
if I don't want to cut you off, but the pressure yes plays such a big point like the like when you're in charge of keeping someone healthy. There is a there's a low degree of pressure that doesn't go away. If you don't know what you're doing. Like if you understand it, then the pressure comes and goes situationally, but when you don't understand that it feels constantly 24 seven, like you're killing somebody. And yeah, that's not obvious to the other person who's not involved in the management. I mean, I have to say, for me, that's been the biggest leap is to get across to like when you do such a good job, but that came out wrong, but I do a really good job taking care of art and sculpture, so much so that she probably doesn't, and hopefully never will feel the full possibility of impact from diabetes. And because of that her perspective is different. My wife's perspective is different if they lived in a house where her blood sugar's were ping ponging all over the place for the last 12 years, then they'd see it differently, too. But it I maybe it's possible, I make it look easy sometimes. But it doesn't make it less impactful on me. And then you can't get that I don't want to call it respect. But you can't get that understanding from onlookers. I don't know if all that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:21
yes, yes. So you because you're doing it. So well. And and I hear your concern, saying that like you are you're doing a great job, right? And so then you don't nobody else is experiencing the side effects or the consequences of of the, you know, the roller coasters, etc. And so then people might think, or your wife might suspect, oh, it's not that hard, right. But in reality, we know that the primary caregiver experiences burnout, for sure. All of the things that we've talked about in the other episodes of distress, the burnout, the resentment of I am working hard to keep our child alive, and my partner doesn't understand how hard it is. And then that leads to resentment 100% of the time. So while it might not work in a lot of families to have this, like, equitable, an equal amount of time in terms of CO managing, there does need to be some level of understanding, which will lead to the respect and the gratitude of what it takes to do what you're doing,

Scott Benner 13:32
and the knowledge to know when not to get on what's happening. Like, I don't really know a better way to say that, like, you know what I mean, like, if I'm in charge of the checkbook, Erica and you have nothing to do with it. You don't look over my shoulder every once in a while and go, what are you doing here is like, Look, if you want to be involved in the checkbook, be involved in the checkbook. But, you know, we've been a lot, you know, we've been together a long time here, everything's fine. All the bills are paid God little savings going. I'm doing a good job. Like it's, it's, it would be like if I showed up at your office, and stood in the corner, and 15 minutes into a session said, Hey, Eric, are you sure that's the question you want to ask here? Like, you'd be like, Who are you in this situation? You don't know what's happening. It's, it's can be very difficult not to respond. Like you've been attacked, even if maybe that person wasn't attacking you. Maybe they were just like, interested or thought they had a good idea to add or something like that. But I mean, maybe it's just maybe I'm just letting too much of myself out here. But, but but you know what I mean, you can feel really, like somebody's coming after you in that situation.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:32
Right? And so then I would say, okay, going back to Okay, how are you communicating as a couple? What are the what are you leading with? What is your tone? How are the questions being asked? Is that why did you Why did you Bolus this amount for that food in that kind of tone? Or is it Gosh, I'm really curious. So I know for next time, can you help me understand why you gave this amount for that food?

Scott Benner 14:55
Those those little sentences are so incredibly important in personal communication, especially amongst people who've been around each other for a long time. And because you just get the feeling like the other person knows what I mean, but they don't, it doesn't matter how long you've been together, it's a very nice way to start a conversation by saying, Hey, I was wondering if you could explain to me what just happened here, because I don't understand it. And I would like to, like you have to put yourself in a slightly, I don't know it, like, professionally speaking, if it's a dominant, and sub and sub position, but you have to be kind of in the sub position for a second, like I find, listen, I'm pretty good at talking to people. And I think that one of the ways you talk to people well is by making them feel comfortable, and letting them feel like they can get their thoughts out. And when you come at somebody, and you're very demanding, that does not ever happen that way. And so I think, even when you've known somebody for a very long time, those words that might feel like the polite words you say, for the guy at the gas station really should be used between people who know each other as well.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:04
Yes, yes, I think tone has everything to do with, you know, how we receive, deliver and receive messages. Obviously, body language, and words are important too. But tone is extremely important. And so an understanding that if the, if you're the non primary caregiver, there needs to be that level of understanding that my my partner is exhausted, because they probably aren't sleeping well at all. And they are constantly under this level of stress of what you know, trying to keep your child alive. But you aren't going to get that or you won't be able to come from that position of empathy, unless you have this basic level of knowledge and understanding. And so I think going back to that point of how can you integrate your partner into the CO management, or at least common understanding of what it means to manage the diabetes. And I think, you know, some some families that I've worked with, they will like, if one caregiver is away for the weekend, then the other person is forced to learn, right? And trial by fire, maybe the other caregivers helping via text and call, Okay, I see the arrow going this way, let's do this. But slowly allowing, you know, the other caregiver to experience what it's like, and maybe maybe the other caregiver is still the primary one, but to allow for these opportunities for both the primary caregiver to get sort of a break, and the other caregiver to experience Wow, that was really challenging to build in that empathy and understanding. The the other point around that the Yeah, so the tone, to build empathy, and understanding. I'll pause there.

Scott Benner 18:00
No, I this is, you know, because we talked before we started recording, but this is about to happen to me, like I'm gonna have my wife managed remotely for six days or so while I'm gone somewhere. And I'm reminding myself as much as I'm reminding other people, but I wonder too, like, is it folly to like to say to the person who's in that situation? Now, here's another job for you explain that to your spouse, how for them how they need to, you know, be that to make this successful? Like, maybe you should just force them to listen to this and be like, Listen, just listen to that. That's what I mean to say to you, but I don't have time. Maybe like I, because when do you run out of time, like because this isn't your only thing. Like it's funny what we just explained, as a person who was a stay at home dad for 20 years, you take out the word diabetes and put into housework. And we just had the same exact conversation, honestly, like I did things around the house that people didn't appreciate, and everyone who does the dishes, or the laundry or, you know, sweeps under the bed. You know, they understand that, you know, when when your spouse isn't sneezing at night, because there's not a big dust bunny under the bed. Nobody stops to thank you for that. They don't even know what happened. It's just it's the idea of, of stopping yourself from taking people for granted, I guess, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:24
Yes. And, and I think it goes back to get the time and the energy of you know, oftentimes caregivers will tell me like, well, it's just easier for me to do it. So I'm just gonna keep doing it. But we know that that's you can't do that forever. We also know that diabetes is going to go away. And so you're going to continue to come, you know, experienced that pattern of resentment and burnout if they're if you aren't getting any kind of support or understanding or gratitude for what you are doing. And so I mean, if you're if your partner was open to either listening to the episodes that, you know, the pro tips or the basic diabetes understanding, I know for a lot of families upon diagnosis, because when other the other caregiver either has to work or take care of the other kids. So from the get go, it is often one caregiver and the child in the hospital, and learning what it means, you know, going through all of the seminars and classes and education. And so even from, you know, day one, the one caregiver is going to know and understand more than the other because of just of circumstances and not because they're trying to be cruel. Yeah. And so, but then the then the patterns, you know, continue. So I think it's never too late to ask your your partner to say, Gosh, I'm, we're experiencing this, this cycle of, you know, you either you either criticize the way I'm doing it, but you don't really understand how to do it, or I'm feeling resentful, because you don't know how or I'm so exhausted and stressed out that I have no time to connect with my caregiver, because I just need to sleep when I can to say all those things out loud when you're not in the midst of an argument, and then ask for like, Okay, how can we not necessarily fix this, but address this, and maybe it is having some understanding, maybe it is allowing the other caregiver to experience, you know, taking the kids to the park, or the you know, with your child to diabetes to the park, having these small moments of like, wow, that was really scary. When I noticed my child was going below and I didn't have anything to, to bring it up, bring that, you know, we'd have any snacks. So all these things, allowing the caring other caregiver to experience to hopefully build in that empathy, which is what we think what you really want is like empathy, and understanding and gratitude as the primary caregiver from from experience,

Scott Benner 22:01
may I lay down just a little layer of blue collar advice here. And I know this is not going to be politically correct. But if you can't get all that done, coming as a straight guy, from my opinion, if you just said something like if you understood extended Bolus is better, I'd have more energy for sex, that probably moves most guys in the direction you want to go.

Unknown Speaker 22:24
That's, that's,

Scott Benner 22:25
that's what I do. Bottom line, bottom line, yeah, you make me a girl. That's how I attack this. I'm like, Listen, you don't what you don't understand is, and then I say, whatever, you know, floats the person's boat. On the other side. I say there'd be more of that. If there was more of this from you. I think that's good. I think that puts most guys right back in line, to be perfectly honest. And by the way, men who aren't the best advice of this whole episode? Yeah. And men who are swayed by that argument, I don't understand you at all. What do you think of that? I once drove to Delaware to have sex, you understand? I didn't live in Delaware. I was like, wait, what's gonna happen? If I come there? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 23:07
I'm on my way.

Scott Benner 23:09
We just get in the car, take a shower. Here I go, I'll be there in four. Yeah, you got to understand how to move the chess pieces around. But it is such a huge problem. like not to make light of it. But I do want to take I do want to like walk across the courtroom and take the other side for a second. If you're the person who doesn't get it. I always want to say that, you know, because I see people online are always like, my spouse doesn't understand that. And they always add, they always act like they're, it's on purpose. They don't get involved on purpose. But I wonder how many times those people aren't scared out of their minds, or like afraid to do the wrong thing?

You know what I mean? I'm also there are a lot of people who are afraid to act until they're sure. And I know that seems like the same idea. But it's not like there are some people who can't make an action until they have all the answers before they go. And now you're making this a health issue around a child, probably I'm guessing a child that this person loves a lot. And they're probably like, I don't know what to do. I mean, you're keeping her alive, I'll let me stay out of it. And then, and then the human part gets involved where you do realize this is easier not to be involved in this. And that's where it starts to go wrong, when you willfully stay out of it is different than when you stay out of it because you're afraid. There's a difference there, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:34
think. Yes. I appreciate that perspective, because I think maybe what could be helpful in that if that is the case, to sit down with your partner and say, can you help me understand why? Like, maybe you've gotten into these patterns and roles, right? But you're realizing it's not sustainable. And to say like have your partner or give your partner an opportunity to just They all have those things to say, Gosh, and I see they're scared, because I don't know how. And I'm fearful of making a mistake. And you are much better at it than I would ever be. And I don't, I don't want to try. I don't want to mess it up. And I think that would be helpful to for your, for the primary caregiver to to hear that and maybe have some empathy to have like, okay, maybe I've just done it all. And it's easier for me to do it. But you know, I'm experiencing all these side effects. But my my partner may want to may want to try, but there's fear or there's Yeah, it didn't know. And then that fear has led to Well, I just, I don't I don't want to do it. Well, now what about any any? Yeah, go ahead. And

Scott Benner 25:50
what about in a more? What's the word? What about when your partner is actually a bad actor? There's a question here, I'm not gonna attach the person's name to it. But it says, What if the other parent pretends that you don't exist will not help you or give advice without making you feel like a horrible parent that is killing their child, I guess what I'd like to know is how to get this person to help me with how they manage our son, which he seems the when he has so much resentment for me that he can't get over it or put it aside. So this sounds like a scenario where one person wants to help, does not have the tools they need. And then the other person is just is just crushing them every time they come at them. You don't know what you're doing, you're gonna kill them. Like that kind of thing. And I have to tell you, this message is not gender the way you would expect it today. So So what if you've got a bad actor in the situation? Like, what's the I mean, that's a bigger difference, like, how do you fix it? And I guess, when do you say, the rest of my relationship? I'm happy with this part. I'm not happy with I guess not even just around diabetes, like At what point you just, what's what what I want to say like, what do you When do you just accept people's flocks? So there's two questions.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:14
Yeah. And, and this question, yeah, and I understand that. So the one one parent has the understanding of how to do it. And the other parent wants to know how, but when the when this parent tries, the other, the primary caregiver, kind of shames and ridicules and B raids his other parent in terms of like, you're not, you're doing a terrible job, you're going to kill our child,

Scott Benner 27:44
is it a power? Is that a power move?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:48
It feels, I mean, from this particular question, it feels like there might be some other issues going on. In in the marriage, I'm not I can, I don't know, this scenario, I don't know this person. But it feels like if there's so much power, and there's shame, and there's. And there's obviously there's resentment here, because the one parent knows how to do it well, and is angry, it feels like there's a lot of anger to underneath this of, you don't know how to do it. And if whenever you try, you mess it up. And so it feels like there's either some, you know, on, on either felt or expressed anger or sadness, even around, not to make it all about the sadness, but it feels like there's some other underlying emotions underneath this. And I think if this happens, and I've written, I do read a lot on you know, on the, the Facebook group that these, these kinds of things happen. And if it's to the point where it's so contentious all the time of whenever one parent wants to try to help, I would highly, highly encourage, you know, marital or relational therapy, because I feel like it might be difficult to get to this to the issue of the diabetes unless there's some rebuilt like there's, there's obviously a violation of either trust or love or connection. It feels

Scott Benner 29:20
like the one person is almost gleeful that there's something to to come at the other person with, like, oh, now I've a really good reason to call them names and tell them their bad stuff. There's, I mean, do you get that vibe from that a little bit like, Oh, just it's an opportunity. Like, I'm a bad person, I'm doing bad things to my spouse. And this is a great opportunity for me to do that. Like I don't know why someone would want to do that. But if you wanted to, honestly, your don't know how to handle our kids diabetes is a great way to make somebody feel terrible. Yeah, yes. Usually, I think the way I think of them, huh? I don't think you think about people the way I do.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:05
Well, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And usually when we're lashing out, and we are shaming another person, because they aren't doing it the way we think we should do things, then I feel like there's some other some something else is underneath that

Scott Benner 30:21
Healthy People don't do that to each other. What's that? How a mentally healthy people don't do that to each other? Is that right? Or no,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:30
I would say maybe people who are necessarily struggling with this, when you are communicating in this, in our you know, with with type one, your one person is going to be fatigued, and unstressed. And so it's hard to operate and communicate and be mindful of your tone and all that. So I think acknowledging that, but not excusing certain behaviors, I think when you are at this kind of crisis moment of we cannot connect on how to manage our child's type one, to have to sit down and try to find moments when you aren't actually heated, to be able to share your experience of how you're how you're trying to manage the type one, when you're not trying to manage the type one, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 31:18
Yeah, you know, when I see that become problematic. So first of all, I'm gonna flip flop here for a second. I, I say all the time that you can't let yourself get exhausted because you do not notice it happen. And the detriments from being exhausted, are many they're varied. They go through your life, and you do not know you're doing it. Sometimes you are genuinely lashing out at people and not even aware that you're doing it. But I've always been, that's the thought I've always had in the back of my head too. Like, this isn't a conversation for now, then the problem becomes, when does that conversation? Yeah, and you know, like, and you think, oh, at the end of the day, you mean, at the end of the day, Erica, when you get in bed, and we're both reminded we're not gonna have sex with each other, because we're so pissed, because that's not a fun time to talk. And then you sit there quietly, and you're like, I'm gonna bring it up, this is a good time. And then you hear the CGM or something like that. And I get I get just finding. This isn't just around this idea. But time out time, like pause time is super important. And incredibly difficult to create.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:23
I think yes. Yeah. So, so challenging. But you, I feel like you, if you want to make changes and how you communicate and relate with your partner, then you have to make certain sacrifices and prioritize. So maybe it's okay, we're not going to carve out an hour, we're going to carve out 10 minutes, and we're gonna agree to the date and time. And then you're both prepared. And whether maybe you put your whatever you need to do to prioritize that 10 minutes or 20 minutes. And follow through on that. Because then, if you aren't making these priorities, these times are these moments to connect about the issues that are going to continue. Yeah, then the issues are going to continue. See, I think that you both need to be on the same page. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 33:14
think that's the most important thing that's been said so far, is that that you're not going to get to any of this inside of another situation. And you really are going to, like, you know how they say, you know, what do they say save the first 10% of your income bank before you pay your bills, pay yourself before you pay your bills? I think there there's something to that, like, you know, you can look at each other and go look, we're obviously arguing a lot, things aren't going well. You're yelling at me, I'm yelling at you. Maybe you're not yelling, maybe like, Look, I'm mad at you, I don't even tell you. But we we're not going to be able to do that. Now. We literally need to put on the calendar. A space and time. This is when we do it. And we sit down and just agree that you can't let anger into this moment. You can't bring your grudges in here. I'm gonna say how I feel you say how you feel. And the goal has to be for us to find middle ground. And and not to pile one issue on top. And I would think one issue at a time. Like don't go in with a list. You don't I mean? Am I wrong? Like there's times when I say things and I'm like, at some point she's gonna tell me I'm an idiot. Is this the moment?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:21
No, I think yes. Don't go into a list and stay in the emotion as best you can around what you're experiencing if I mean if you were trying to work on connection, because if you don't feel connected, it's hard to problem solve. And so, you know, I feel I feel exhausted, I feel resentful, or I feel like I doing it all by myself. And then the other person is like, Well, I I don't know how or I feel fearful or I feel like you never get them to give me a chance. If you feel like you can't get through those types of conversations, then that would be another indicator of like, maybe We need to go back to and not unlike not in cats, you know, therapy, but maybe it's like two or three, check in sessions with a being someone

Scott Benner 35:09
moderated conversations, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:11
moderating helps you communicate and helps you rephrase certain things, being mindful of your tone your butt, all those things. So I think just understanding when I'm when I'm suggesting marital therapy, it's not necessarily, you know, go and do try and fix all the things, it's just maybe going back to some a couple sessions of basic communication to help rebuild that connection and kind of rebuild that trust. Yeah, we don't you guys are in it together. Yeah.

Scott Benner 35:39
Not everybody needs to be torn down to the bad thing that happened to him when they were six and a half to get to it. Right, right. We're not, you don't need everybody to go to see doctor, it doesn't have to be Freudian psychology, I guess psychiatry is saying, right, right. Go to therapy and, and have somebody there who hears who can hear in your sentence that you're about to stirrups and stop you go, right. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:01
the objective objective listener who can help guide the conversation. And, and I think that could be really beneficial. But going back to, you know, your the first point was, you know, well, we just can't we don't do enough time to that, then maybe start smaller, start with the 10 minutes on your calendar. And then and be respectful of the time. So okay, 10 minutes is done, or whatever the time that you've allotted, and then schedule out the next time and knowing that you're not going to fix everything, that first connection, you know, that first calendered conversation,

Scott Benner 36:36
I ask you a question, that it's a start, that might not feel like it fits here, but in my mind, it does a little bit. Just generally speaking, gender broken out over gender lines? Do we have different expectations? Like, are men's general expectations of a partner different than that of a woman's expectations of a partner? And is that how a person can be doing what they feel is the best they can? And it can somehow ring hollow to the other side? Because it's not what you're not doing the thing that the other person is actually looking for? And there's no way to know that. Because you're doing the thing that if somebody did it for you, you'd be thrilled about that was convoluted, but did you understand what I meant?

Unknown Speaker 37:20
Right? Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:21
But I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't break it down by gender, I would break it down by personality by how you were raised. Maybe you're you're you're making choices and doing things by your own personal experience. And And oftentimes, we either feel like how how you were raised is the right way, or you feel like how you were raised is the wrong way. And you're going to do the opposite, right? But I feel like we often we function out of that. Society, even break it down by gender, but

Scott Benner 37:52
Well, okay, I was wrong. See, it's good. I this is why I like you, because you call me out. But so but the idea of like, I'm doing the best I can, and oh my god, I wish someone would treat me this way. And then you don't get it back. Like meaning like you're like, oh, it didn't land. You know what I mean? Like the person I was trying to help is just completely left hollow from this. I don't know what to do next. And even it's simple to say like, you can ask that person what they want. But sometimes people don't know what they want. And or sometimes they have trouble telling you what they want. It's theirs. Or should people not be should we all just live isolated, ARCA? Is that what we're learning?

Unknown Speaker 38:37
Okay, you

Scott Benner 38:38
live in our cave, and then just come out for sex day and then go back in the cave again? Is that what this should be?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:44
Oh, my gosh, that would be so sad. No, we are we are we are relational. I think we want to be we want to be acknowledged. And in that we can also acknowledge others, you know, for what, for all that least, that's been seen and done.

Scott Benner 39:00
You said something at the beginning, that I wanted to kind of just kind of end on here with this conversation if you think we're done. But you talked about like lose the loss of physical intimacy. And is that and is that an easier way to mend fences than talking? Like if you've lost a physical connection can leaping back into that or trying to fix that? Is that easier to fix than talking? I guess is my question.

Unknown Speaker 39:31
No,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:33
gosh, I think what depending on the the the couple, one, one party one partner might feel like the reason why there isn't the emotional intimacy because the physical intimacy is lacking, right. And the other partner might feel like Well, I don't want to be physically intimate because I don't feel emotionally connected with you.

Scott Benner 39:57
Well, that makes sense.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:58
And you could come to a you know This impasse right, because one person's needs aren't being met and the other then that they're not going to give the other person the other needs. So it's going back to understanding what are what are your partner's needs? And off? Maybe it is it can we need to. Some one needs to give a little. Whether the partners like holding out to feel emotionally connected before before they feel comfortable physically, or,

Scott Benner 40:27
like it didn't need to be I know, because I joke around you probably thought I met like swinging from the chandelier. But could it just be like, holding hands or like touching someone on the shoulder when you walk past them? Or just giving the other person the feeling like you're not avoiding them? Like, you don't mean like, sex, it's got to start somewhere. And because if because the stuff we're talking about, is, is not intuitive for the people for people sometimes. But like, you have to move in the right direction, or you continue to move in the wrong direction. And like me, I just feel like you have to fight upstream sometimes, and maybe just holding someone's hand or sitting next to them while they're watching television or something like that. would go a long way to making another person feel comfortable. I might be wrong. I'm just

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:11
No, no, no, you're good. I think starting Yes, starting small and we don't, if you feel like there has been zero physical intimacy, and one partner is feeling like there's no way I'm ever going to ever want to have sex with this person until we get to this spot emotionally. To go back yes to saying maybe my partner's love language is physical touch and intimacy. So how can I help bridge that that might be an easier way, as you said, just start smaller with the small touches gestures. And that might lead to both of you then feeling more open and ready to have some more emotional intimacy, conversations, communication. So I think it just depends on what knowing knowing your own, quote, love language and your partners. And then being willing one, one person often has to take the first step. I'm just

Scott Benner 42:09
saying those old touches charging those old Tom and Jerry cartoons when they had to get past the Bulldog, they throw steak over the fence. That's all I'm getting out here. And and I listen to the rest of the reality of what you just said, I don't not understand that. I know a person might not want to be intimate with somebody that they don't feel comfortable with. That obviously makes 1,000% sense. But I mean, once you're in it for a while, once you're married for 10 or 15 years, and you see things you're just like, wow, none of this is going the way I want. I mean, are you just what do you just riding it out? Like it just feels like you're just climbing higher and higher on the Titanic try not to get wet. You know, it's gonna happen eventually. So, try something. You know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:56
should try something being open to give, you know, trying some intervention, trying some gesture, to to make a change. Because as we know, we're gonna, we're not going to change, things aren't going to change

Scott Benner 43:10
stuffs not just going to magically get better.

Unknown Speaker 43:13
And

Scott Benner 43:14
even that like feeling of like, oh, I'll get mellower. As I get older, it's you'll have too much resentment at that point. And won't matter if you don't have the piss and vinegar to fight anymore. You're still not going to like the person you're looking at. Because you're going to feel like you wasted time or life or I don't know, you got to do something is how I feel about it. Like you have to try something. And, and I do think the idea that someone needs to be the not the bigger person, I believe in the intent of that phrase, but not the words of that phrase, if that makes sense. If someone has to go first, if someone's got to swallow hard and go, Alright, fine. I'll do this. Like, I'll be the one and and do it with a lot of joy not not angry, you think begrudgingly right? You can't be progressing about it. That's all I fixed

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:00
that there. But there's hope i think you know, just being being hopeful and holding on that remembering go I think if you're at the place where you feel hopeless to go back to remembering how you first met as often this is like a and I know we're wrapping up here but maybe it's your you don't when you scheduling that time together to not first address the issue at hand but to reflect on how you first met, the feelings doing you you had and the experiences you you created together to go back and remember remind yourself and your partner and and reflect together to maybe go back to the beginning could be a place to start as well to kind of reignite that sense of hope.

Scott Benner 44:47
How much value is there in being reasonable about who you who you're with to like At what point do you just say, you know, maybe this isn't what I was hoping this person was going to turn into but If I'm being honest, this is who they are, they're being really consistent. Like, at what point? Can I say I love you. I don't like this part about you, but I love you. And I'm gonna stop focusing on the thing I don't like and and see the bigger picture. Like, I don't know if that's wrong or not like I'm genuinely asking like, at what point do you not like, expect somebody to be perfect and say to yourself, there was a time when that, you know, picadillo didn't bother me. And now it's the only thing I can look at.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:29
Mm hmm. And I think yeah, if you were, if you were in that place, and trying to figure out how to come to that place of, of acceptance, embracing who your partner is loving that your partner, then maybe that's the time for you to do some own, like reflection to whether that's, you know, by yourself through journaling, reading books, therapy, to kind of get to that place of can you do that? Do you want to? And can you get to that place of, of acceptance? Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:03
I want to be clear that I'm just trying to talk through this, like, I genuinely don't think like, if it comes across, like, I think you should, you know, have a have a whiskey and water at the bedside at the, you know, at the table with the newspaper in his pipe, and it's 1950. And when he comes home, you rub his feet, put on his slippers, and then go flop on the bed till he's ready to bang on you. Like, I'm not saying that, like, I really am not trying to put that out there. Okay, like, I seriously don't think that I don't have those thoughts about relationships. I just think that it's, it's hard to see the other person's side. And sometimes it's, it's just, it's, it's difficult to, in this conversation, this kind of conversation where I'm trying to play, I'm trying to argue both sides while you and I are talking, that it I don't want people to think like, oh, he just thinks that women should you know, be barefoot and pregnant? Like, I don't feel that way. And I don't. And I don't think I didn't pick up. Yeah, I'm glad I just now I'm nervous at the end here. Because we're talking about Jesus, there's somebody out there right now is like, I'm not just gonna have sex with him to shut him up. But I'm not saying that.

Unknown Speaker 47:10
I genuinely,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:12
I think I mean, I think bottom line is that, you know, marriage or relationships, it takes work, and, and you got to be willing to do the work. And then when you integrate a chronic illness into the equation, it's going to take even more work. And I think, oftentimes, it's hard to it's hard to do the work. It just is

Scott Benner 47:38
there, there are close to 90,000 scholarly articles that come back if you google divorced and chronic illness or something like that. So this is not a new problem that you're having. I think that's important to know that, that people could feel like oh, my God, this is it. Like I was bad at being a spouse, or I picked the wrong part. If you think that most people aren't going through this, you're out of your minds, like like this. Yeah, this is everybody's life. Nobody, nobody gets away with this. They just find some people are just better at pretending I always say the happier people look more foolish they are. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:20
probably sometimes, too, but I think it's just it takes Yes. I mean, that's a very true thing of, you know, divorce within, or as a result, or a part of, you know, living with a chronic illness or having a child with chronic illness. And I think just knowing the Yes, that you're not alone, that it's, it is challenging, and it does, it takes it takes work on top of the work that you're doing to to keep your child alive. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:52
I have a very pragmatic approach to like happiness. I don't expect to be happy every day. And I even expect that there could be days that turn into weeks where nothing that I would, you know, think of is like really super exciting. And something I'm glad to be doing, you know, might happen, I might get stuck in a work cycle. It's happened to me over the last couple of weeks, like I've had to, I've had to prepare the podcast. Instead of preparing a week of it, I've had to prepare three weeks of it to cover my absence, right. And so I've been working like crazy. So I've been getting up working, going to sleep getting up working, like I've over and over and over again. And if you know, I've heard no lie, I've heard 15 hours of this podcast in the last five days, like editing and doing things and I've said, you know, learn more on the pod.com forward slash juicebox more in the last 48 hours than I've said it in like three weeks. So it's not fun work. But I also think that way about life, like I think if I live I don't know if I figure if I live 80 years and the first 15 kind of don't count cuz I don't really remember, I'm so much so you know, if I've got 60 years in there, and 20 of them are terrific, and 10 of them are pretty good, and five of them are alright, and 10 of them sucked, and five of them were terrible. When I get to the end, that's not bad to me, like, to me, that makes sense that every day is not going to be a carnival. Now, when they start happening, long stretches, obviously, that's a different problem. But I mean, I just don't, I don't have a happiness expectation, I'm happy to be happy. And there are plenty of times that I'm happy. But I'm not sad when I'm not elated. Is that healthy? Or am I fooling myself into accepting too little?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:40
Well, I think what you're saying is, you know, life life is it can be a grind sometimes. And, and accepting that and working towards it, and you're working towards something, and you're doing something that you enjoy, are passionate about, knowing that it life is going to ebb and flow. And so I think that it's having it's a realistic perspective of, there are going to be hard moments, they're going to be moments that feel just kind of ordinary, and they're gonna be moments that are great. And to accept that, you know, those seasons don't last forever. Just like, you know, most emotions don't last forever, they come and go. And I think that being able to kind of live in that. And through that is, is where you're at peace. And it takes it takes work, I'm sure you know, you've worked to get there emotionally,

Scott Benner 51:29
yeah, things can and we'll get better like judging your whole existence by the bad thing that's happening right now, in my mind is a mistake. I, I love there are people on this planet that I love more than myself. And I've had amazing interactions with them. Sometimes just days, after they've said something to me that I'd think oh, well, I'm never gonna see this person again. Or this person hates my guts, but they're just they could be also going through something and likely are, I just don't, I don't give up. Like, I just think like, this is what it is. And we just make the best of it every day, and some days will be better than others. I just want to give people hope, especially when you find yourself newly diagnosed, or you're in that situation where right now you barely understand what's going on. But your spouse really doesn't understand it. Like it, it's genuinely not gonna stay like this forever. And you might look back on this time and wonder why you were so well not wonder what you were so upset about, you'll know what you were so upset about. But you'll be you'll, you'll think, Wow, I can't believe we got out of that I'd never expected to leave that moment. But you can and

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:36
you've likely right. But when you're in it, and you're in that newly diagnosed stage and haze and shock, I mean, it's it's hard to access, or even comprehend that whatever. And that that particular stage. So that's why you need somebody

Scott Benner 52:50
to tell you challenging, that's why I said it, because you need somebody to tell you, this isn't going to be like this forever. I mean, the way I usually put it is diabetes is hard, it doesn't get easier, you just get way better at it. And that makes it feel easier. And and you You shouldn't make the you shouldn't you shouldn't worry about that distinction. Because you know, you can do hard things and you are going to do hard things and it's going to be around diabetes, if diabetes, you know, I that's going to be the hard thing that you're going to do. And you can like get some help. You can do it. It's and if you don't understand, like you said, you know, earlier Erica, like referenced like listening to some of the protests, but she's not just like butter and my bread. She really thinks that like you just need somebody Yeah, go find something that's valuable. Like to me, if you have a spouse that doesn't understand those defining diabetes episodes are digestible. They're short, and they at least give them context. And then maybe some of the things you say to them, they'll have context for because you might be using words they don't even understand. And they're just nodding along. Try not to look like an idiot, you know, you don't know. Yeah, people are complicated. Disgusting. The whole thing's a mess. Alright. Life is hard. Yeah, there you go. But it's not always hard. And it doesn't have to be this hard. Like sometimes you can you get through it or you make it better yourself. You are really kind of the master of your own domain. You know, you can I think that's a Seinfeld episode, which is about masturbation, which is not what I meant. So let's just keep moving. But you can you can be the master of of your, what am I looking for here? What's the word I want? You to future? You're out your perspective. Yeah, you have anything of all these things. You can change the way you think about stuff. I listen. It's not apples to apples, but I grew up pretty broke. You know, and my life wasn't terrific. And there are a lot of times you had to get up in the morning and just I mean, if you want my secret, which is no secret, I am eternally hopeful. Like you will never meet a person who wakes up, reset more than I do. If something goes wrong today, I will wake up tomorrow with the same enthusiasm I had before that bad thing happened. I don't see another way around it. I don't I, I don't think I could carry all that baggage. You know what I mean? So I just don't i don't walk with the weight of the world on my shoulders. I I don't believe I could do it. So I just I reset my hope I am a very hopeful person. And I wake up every day, expecting things to go well. And if they don't, it's okay. I'll try again tomorrow. That's pretty much it. But yes, it's good to healthy. Thank you. First, let's thank touched by type one, again, you can find them at touched by type one.org. You can also find them on Facebook, and Instagram. They are a wonderful organization. And all they really want is for you to check them out. Take advantage of their programs. I also want to thank Erika, and you can find out more about what she does at Erica foresight.com. That's erikforsyth.com.

There's so much music left. I'm having a hard time sitting here quietly. I'd like to take just a moment to thank you all. I know this happens frequently. But it happens frequently because of how great you guys are and how supportive you are. The podcast keeps having months that are better than the previous month. Meaning there are more people downloading and streaming the show this month and last month, more last month in the month before that had record days record weeks. For the past four weeks in a row. The podcast has grown pretty substantially. It's it's astounding actually. The reason I'm telling you is because this is 100% because of you. Absolutely. When you leave a great review, wherever you're listening, rate the show highly tell somebody about it. Tell your doctor about it. Doctors when you tell your patients, it just keeps growing and growing. And the message keeps spreading farther and farther. I am very, very, very, very grateful for how much you all put into the podcast. So thank you very much for your efforts for listening for downloading for streaming however you listen. But mostly for sharing the show. It is a really big deal. I appreciate that you're listening, and I'll be back very soon with another episode.

#513 Break in the Clouds

Sarah is a young adult living with type 1 diabetes. She is here today to share her story and talk about anexiety.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 513 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is called breaking the clouds. And my guest is Sarah. Now, I lost the first four minutes of this episode. I'm sorry, I don't know how it happened. But let me give you the quick overview. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Scott. So you've type one diabetes. Yeah. How old are you? I'm in college. Okay, that's pretty much it. You'll be able to enjoy the rest of the episode now. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin.

I'd like to remind you that if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip for the defining diabetes series, you can look at diabetes pro tip com. They're also available through Juicebox Podcast COMM And right there in your podcast player. Alright, little more business. And then we get right to Sarah.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Find out more about the Omni pod dash, and all of the Omni pod products at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. later in the show, I'm going to tell you about the Omni pod promise. The show is also sponsored today. By the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. I have never used a more accurate meter. I have never held a more comfortable meter. It is wonderful Contour. Next One comm forward slash juice box. I clicked on the wrong button just now. And cuts are off for everybody listening. So this is gonna feel like a really awkward edit. But is there this question already? She started to answer and I messed up. So hey, Sarah, do you think either of your parents had anxiety?

Sarah 2:21
I think that my dad might have had a little anxiety. In the same sense I do. He has what my mom calls like white coats, white coat syndrome, where he gets really nervous to go to doctors get a flu shot, he just is not until all that. So the fact that, Oh, your child was just diagnosed with Type One Diabetes, and you're gonna have to give her insulin shots every day, every day, you're gonna have to check her blood sugar with this little poker thing. And I think he just kind of shut down after that. Whereas my mom was more like the champion for me. She wanted to put me into clubs and get out. Sir, yeah. Oh, so it's interesting that they were both kind of on opposite ends of that?

Scott Benner 3:09
Well, you know, it's interesting, you said white coat syndrome, actually, because that's a very real thing. But it's got a finite definition, but I think of it as a little larger around diabetes. So the real definition of it is, it's like it's like a form of hypertension. So people have like a normal blood pressure. And then they go into a clinical setting and have their blood pressure checked. And it's crazy high. But it's not in the rest of their life. As far as anyone can tell. They just they see the white coat, they get nervous. Maybe it's nervous about being around a doctor or that you're about to be tested. You don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know what happens to people. But I always, in my mind, expand that around diabetes to think about, you know, you see so many people, or I talked to so many people are so confident about their diabetes, and they know what they're doing. And they're afraid to tell their doctor that they change their Basal rate, or they're afraid. They're afraid the doctors like everything looks great, you know, and they're thinking it's not I missed all my Bolus, but I corrected it. So you can't see it here. You know, and they won't tell them and I think of that as more of like the diabetes white coat, but it's very interesting. Your dad said nervous guy.

Sarah 4:20
Yeah, so and it's it's lovable about him. He definitely wants to be as helpful as he can. But like not having any diabetes in my family. It definitely was a big adjustment. And I'm the same way as my dad in the sense that we really hate change. So I'm glad that I was in a way I'm, I'm lucky that I was young diagnosed with diabetes, so I didn't have to deal with that.

Scott Benner 4:46
So you don't in your mind Connect anxiety and diabetes. You don't see it as I have anxiety because of my diabetes. You just didn't you have these two separate things.

Sarah 4:58
Yes. But the Diabetes definitely doesn't help my anxiety sometimes, like, for me, I'll get. I've been a lot better recently. Like, it's kind of crazy that my anxiety has gotten better during a pandemic. But it's the truth, I've been able to manage my diabetes even better over this year. Whereas my anxiety would, it would make me so overwhelmed that it got to the point where I was checking my number, maybe twice a day. This was before my CGM. This was when I was still using a manual checker. What are they called? Sorry? Oh, yes, sorry. I would check when I woke up and kind of after I did my homework and was about to go to bed. And that was the point where I was in my lowest with anxiety. And I would say I kind of suffered with a little bit of depression as well, without putting a name to it. In high school. It was, it was really interesting, because I kind of had that diabetes, white coat syndrome, where I was feeling kind of ashamed to go see my endocrinologist every three months, because I got that anxiety that, oh, my appointments coming up, I need to be on top of my diabetes were and it just, it was at the point where I just did not put that effort into my diabetes management. So I would feel so bad about myself, because my agencies were reflecting that my agencies were pretty high for my age, and for my age, and it was something that I was just ashamed of, and it was just really hard.

Scott Benner 6:57
Does the does the anxiety breed procrastination, because if you procrastinate, you don't have to deal with a thing that makes you anxious. But that doesn't make you anxious.

Sarah 7:13
For me, it's kind of interesting. I pride myself in being a really good student. So being in college, and I would prioritize schoolwork over my diabetes, if that makes sense. Like I would avoid the pressure of the diabetes, anxiety and deal with the anxiety I had over college. Which was not a great idea. But it was something that I did to cope, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 7:43
You just felt like you had enough bandwidth for one of these things. And you chose school? Yes. What would happen when you ignored your diabetes, you're just talking about higher blood sugars, but you weren't checking anyway. So you wouldn't know if they were high or not. Right?

Sarah 7:55
Right. So it was kind of scary, actually, my numbers would be like, when I got around to checking them, my numbers would be, I'll just throw out a number, it would they would be in the three hundreds, low, three hundreds. And I wouldn't feel that. And that's when I realized, like, I used to be able to feel when my numbers were going high. And I used to be able to feel when they were going low. But it got to the point where I kind of just felt the same all day. If I was 110 or 310.

Scott Benner 8:26
So did you I'm sorry, did you used to play that game when you were younger? Like I feel myself getting higher? I'll give myself some insulin.

Sarah 8:33
I would check my numbers. And then I would be Oh, I was right. And then I kind of got that confidence. Like, Oh, I know I'm low right now. Because I'm feel shaky. I feel like a headache. And I would check my numbers back then. And then when I got more independent with diabetes, when I didn't have to call my parents every day from the clinic. I would be like, oh, I'll just skip checking my number at lunch because I feel fine. I don't feel low. I don't feel high. But what happened was, my numbers would steadily be high. And you do it was pretty bad.

Scott Benner 9:08
Yeah, you didn't recognize that your body had lost the ability to feel the difference anymore. Yeah,

Sarah 9:14
I can still feel when I'm low, for some reason, but I think my body just got used to the higher blood sugars, which is scary. It's

Scott Benner 9:25
what it does. Your body is trying its best to adapt and keep you alive as long as it can. Really is what it's trying for. So something starts going wrong, and it does its best to keep you alive. Whether it's you cut your leg and don't touch it and you know, it tries to clot you know, it's still gonna get infected, right, but right, it's gonna try to buy you another hour, a minute, another day for you to figure out how to save yourself. And it's cool. Sounds like you figured it out.

Sarah 9:51
Yeah, I'm so glad that I finally got the CGM because that was another thing. I was anxious to get a CGM because I was feeling like Oh, I'll just be this robot person with a insulin pump and a stain on my arm and people are gonna think that I'm like, no one's gonna think I'm weird. It was like such silly thoughts of anxiety, but that's what it does to you. It makes you feel just so low, I guess. And so now that I feel pride in having diabetes, and that I can teach people about it, and I'm an anti so I toe I even showed the kids that I nanny my little robot machine. I call it a robot machine because they think it's the coolest thing that Miss Sarah has this cool button on her arm and this cool little robot machine that she keeps in her pocket? And it's made me feel a lot better about that. And I'm so glad that I have the CGM. No, because I can check my number and make it kind of fun for people around me too.

Scott Benner 10:56
I'm glad I'm glad for you as well. But I have a question. So you said you had a lot of like worries like, Oh, I'm gonna look like you know, a machine. Bla bla bla. Yeah. Did you ever worry, my blood sugar's really high? I'm gonna kill myself.

Sarah 11:08
No, and that interesting. It's, it's, it's scary to think, think about because I wouldn't care if my number was high. I would just be like, okay, I just have to put some insulin in and I'll go to bed. Like I wasn't taking care of myself in that way. So it was really bad. Just

Scott Benner 11:27
I don't mean you specifically. But I just think it's incredibly interesting how our minds work. There. Yeah. You know, you're like, well, I don't want this thing on me that is going to be a large problem. Yeah, not having it might be causing me to, you know, have significant health concerns and pass earlier than I should or need to. And that's not even in an anxious person that your anxiety didn't train you on that idea and make you worry about that. I find that fascinating.

Sarah 11:57
It really is. And I had plenty of arguments with my mom about it, because she had wanted me to get it since I was first available to have a CGM. And I just was so stubborn and just worried about that, instead of the real problem of managing my diabetes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:14
How long? How many years? Do you think you were in that space where you weren't really managing? Well, and you're a once you said was high, but you didn't put a number on it. But

Sarah 12:24
oh, so it got to about it was like in the nines, okay, for about a year. And I was doing the I wasn't really managing for about two years, at the end of high school in the beginning of college,

Scott Benner 12:37
when you kind of translated away from your translate is not the right word. When you what's the word I want. transitioned? Oh, my God, sorry, you couldn't think of a word earlier. And now. So when you kind of transitioned away from your family management, and into that later, high school college time, so you maybe only had maybe two or three years in there, where you just weren't really on top of it? Did they think you were like, didn't you? Yeah.

Sarah 13:03
So I would go, I started going to my endocrinologist appointments by myself. So that was an easy way out for me to be like, Oh, yeah, my agency was good. I'm Shannon, who's my nurse practitioner, she was always so helpful with me. But I would just kind of it was kind of like in one ear out the other for a while, I kind of just avoided the change, because I didn't think that I could manage it well, but it's not the truth. Everybody can manage it. It's just the fact of motivating yourself to do it,

Scott Benner 13:45
I believe. Let me ask you, did you feel like you couldn't do it without your parents, but you were supposed to do it without them.

Sarah 13:52
I don't know if it was that I couldn't do it, necessarily. But it was just the change of going from my mom and dad over my shoulder all day, to being independent and having to not having to manage it by myself. But I kind of chose to because I was just tired of it, I guess. And it felt like it honestly felt kind of like a break from diabetes. I think that's where it comes from is like I was just so overwhelmed with everything a normal high schooler goes through, and then having diabetes. On top of that I was just like, ready for kind of an escape from it.

Scott Benner 14:29
I have to tell you that where I grew up, we call this we didn't have a name for it. But it was something that we recognized about girls who went to Catholic school their whole lives. Like they would graduate from high school and do something drastic, right. I mean, they'd start they cut their hair oddly, or data guy they would never date. Or, you know, some girls became really promiscuous. It's just like, which I don't even like that word because I don't think of it as that. That I just mean they just like, Sarah, what I mean is sort of banging a lot is what I'm saying I don't have a judgment about it like, like what it means, right? But they would just break from whatever. I always thought of it as they were being forced to stay in a cocoon. Mm hmm. And so that they didn't get let out slowly. It was just like, Hey, boys, I'm here. You don't mean like it just all at once kind of a thing and a run towards whatever wasn't their norm. And I wonder if you know, you're you talked about school being important to you. You sound like you live in the Virginia ish area. So it sounds like you're you probably have a you're probably like a real firm respect for your parents not wanting to let them down that whole thing? I'm about right about that, right?

Sarah 15:49
Absolutely. Yes, I'm the first person actually in my family to go to college. Well, so I think that's another factor of that I really want to get this degree and make myself proud a my parents. So I think I was very focused on that. And I just loved that kind of be my priority.

Scott Benner 16:09
And I wonder if the doing things like that, as you're growing up, I'm not talking about everybody, not just you. But I wonder if the doing things as you're growing up. Because you're supposed to, instead of because you want to write doesn't leave you with that feeling of I have to get away from this. And the very first minute, you have the opportunity, you escape it somehow. And it sounds to me, like your drive to be a good student, you had more stressors to do that than you did to take care of your diabetes. So you just, that's the one you chose. Right?

Sarah 16:43
So put the diabetes on the back burner.

Scott Benner 16:46
And you're you're a good student too, right? So it makes it easier, like you can gravitate towards the thing you know, you're going to succeed at when you run towards one of them. Exactly. I don't know if I'm right about that. I could be 100% wrong. But it's why. While we've been raising our children, we've tried really, really hard to mix what we want and hope for them with who they are. Instead of just saying, This is what you're supposed to do do this. And it's hard as a parent sometimes when you're like, Oh, I really do wish this is the path they were on. But it's not right for them. I shouldn't force them onto that path. You know, but but you know, good news, you figured it out, right? Well, yeah, what put what pushed you over the edge? What got you thinking about it differently?

Sarah 17:38
Um, honestly, I was just one day, I was like, wait, I don't want to die when I'm like 50 or 40s. You know, like, I don't want to let diabetes control me anymore. I was so scared and anxious for a long time that, well, diabetes, it's different every single day, what is the point of trying to fix my numbers, trying to adjust my bezels and trying to get the CGM to see how my trends are going. And one day, I was just like, Okay, this is enough. I am going to college to get a degree to have a career. But I'm not taking care of taking care of my health. What's the point of like, one or the other? I mean, I need to do both. I think it was just like, one day, I just was like, This isn't healthy, and I need to be healthy. And that's just kind of a Yeah,

Scott Benner 18:36
yeah. And the diabetes sounds like it. It impacted your goal. Like it finally was a prohibitive thing to you. Because you had the conscious thought, why am I planning for a future that I can't have? Right, right, I need to make sure my health is there so that this future I'm putting together for myself is isn't full of health issues, or maybe shorter that I that I want it to be? That's really Yeah, really interesting that you came to it so quickly. Did you have a like, if you feel like you still have some depression, or is it just the, the anxiety now?

Sarah 19:13
Um, I think it comes and goes, it's not major anymore. I think for about a year and a half. I was really low at a low point. But I was functioning like I had high functioning anxiety and depression. And I'm blessed to be able to see a therapist and I'm blessed to be able to have a consistent job that keeps me out of that dark place and having a therapist i think i My opinion is everyone with diabetes should seek a therapist, because it is helped me extremely like I can't even put it into words because I felt for so long, like a burden on my parents financially. Because diabetes is not cheap. It's an expensive disease. That's another part of it becoming independent, and paying for my CGM myself, and deciding to take my diabetes care into my own hands, has helped me realize that it's just something that I can make it I can get out of this dark place. And I can manage my diabetes the way I want to.

Scott Benner 20:25
That's cool. It even sounds like the idea of taking over financial responsibility alleviates you from the strain of feeling like you're stressing your parents financially. And so that's valuable for you. I was just trying to decide like Where did you find that like, spot a sunshine and a cloudy day where you could like stop and think I need to do better with my blood sugar's because I want to live a full life like you just got it you just got lucky, right? You had a you had a moment where it all just man's.

Sarah 20:58
So honestly, that we're in a global pandemic right now. But it is helps me figure out what I want to do. So for so long, I wanted to be a teacher, I still do want to be a teacher. But that that kind of sunlight that you're talking about is when I figured out, hey, why can't I teach about diabetes? Why can't I go that route of it. So I've focused on becoming a diabetes educator. And that's something that I've had a newfound passion for this year. And I think that's another part of it. Because I'm really excited about that. And because of struggling with anxiety and some depression about in my life, and it kind of regards diabetes, I think that I'll have a really good point for people to help them.

Scott Benner 21:51
Yeah, I bet you will. That's excellent. Well, cool. You're doing great. Did you find that having access to your blood sugars more regularly through a continuous glucose monitor? That changed your ability to manage? Like, what? What would you tell me your agency is now?

Sarah 22:12
Oh, my last agency was it was eight point something. So we're slowly coming away getting down. Yes. And I've been able to, I have a freestyle libri. And I love it. I can see on my app, and I scan it with my phone every day. And it's just pretty cool to like see it in the green, it has like a green graph. And when you go low, it goes red. And when you go high, it goes orange, like you know, and it's just pretty cool to visibly see my graphs everyday. Because then I have been able to focus on a specific time of day where like, I was waking up with really high blood sugars in the morning. And so like researching that and finding out about like the morning phenomenon where you're sometimes but people's blood sugar spike in the morning, like when they wake up. That has been really, it's kind of fun for me to be watching my numbers throughout the day. And that's actually really helped my anxiety to be able to get like a C as a whole day instead of thinking like, Oh, my numbers high right now. Let me go big, like think about it for hours, like oh, my numbers super, super high. What do I do? What do I do and being able to see it go down steadily on a graph has helped me I don't know if that makes sense. It makes it

Scott Benner 23:38
has really helped. It makes it aspirational. It makes it something that you feel like you can affect because you can see cause and effect. You can see, you know, I did this and then this happened I could do more next time or I could do it sooner, you know, you start really figuring out how to use the insulin because Sarah, that's really where you're at. Now, what's interesting is you're talking you're basically in year one of diabetes, right? It's crazy. It's not it happens to a lot of people. It really does. I've spoken to so many people who figure these things out at all different times of their life with diabetes. I'll tell you, I spoke with a woman once who was a mother. And she was a single mom, she had a bunch of kids. She was in her late 30s. And she said that the podcast helped her figure out that you know what was going on, but she had had diabetes, and she was like 16 Wow. And she had never fundamentally understood it. And this is where you are. It's like you just got diagnosed and someone explained it to you correctly. And you're starting to figure it out. How do you listen to the show?

Sarah 24:48
Yeah, so I first found your show by accident on Spotify. Over the summer, so I would say maybe like May or June is when I first listened and I was scrolling Cuz you have so many episodes, and it was like, Oh my gosh, where Why have I never heard of this before. So I really like took a deep dive into your show and listen to like a lot of podcasts about people who are about my age and with anxiety or like depression episodes especially. And it really helped me figure out like, oh, there's other people that struggle with this. And I can change this. And it's another interesting thing is I have two close friends that have type one diabetes, we met in high school, in the clinic in the nurse's office. And we've become really close friends because of diabetes. But it was almost like I had more pressure on me to manage better, because they would always tell me how great they're doing with diabetes. And I was kind of sitting there like, Oh, my numbers been in the two hundreds all day, but I wouldn't say that I just kind of felt that secret shame.

Scott Benner 25:58
Yeah. So you're, you're illuminating something that I've long believed, is that there's always been sort of this vein in diabetes in the diabetes space, like you don't talk about doing well, because it makes other people feel bad in the exact same way that you just explained. I've always thought, why don't we talk about doing well, and show somebody how to do well, at the same time, right? Because if those people would have said to you, hey, my blood sugar is 89. What's yours? And you said, 200? And they said, Oh, that's okay, here's the super easy secret how to fix that. You would have been like, Oh, cool. Thanks. And that would have been the end of it, except they didn't know why they were doing better than you. And by the way, you were a little kid, you might have had a too much. Or they might add 160 blood sugar, and you were like, Oh, my god, they're killing it. And you know, maybe they really weren't. So it's all perspective. But I understand that feeling of like seeing somebody do better than you and just shutting down. Because it's embarrassing to say, What's going on with you. But I think, in my opinion, unless you found them already, you're ready to jump to Episode 210. And listen to the pro tip series. Okay, and that's gonna help you figure out how to use your insulin better, I would honestly tell you, if you listen through the pro tip episodes, I would guess you're a once you would be in the sixes in like three or four months? Wow, I think I think it could I think you just don't fundamentally yet know how to manage your insulin.

Sarah 27:29
Right. And I think for a while not really understanding exactly what my disease was, was hard for me because being diagnosed so young, it kind of was like, managed for me for so long. And like we've been talking about the new independence of diabetes, and I'm kind of on I'm starting over basically with management.

Scott Benner 27:52
Okay. Yeah. No, I think that, I mean, it doesn't have to be difficult. But it is if you don't have the tools, and the tools, the tools or ideas, right, their concepts. And I'm talking to you now for 40 minutes, you're a bright person, you're motivated. There's no reason why you couldn't take these easy to use ideas and put them into practice. And I could even if you want, I'll walk through a couple of them with you right now. I honestly do, would you Are you up for that? or? Yeah, that'd be awesome. Cool. Okay, so Sarah, here we go. First of all, if your Basal insulin isn't right.

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Pure Basal insulin isn't right. Everything else isn't going to work. Okay. And by right I mean, away from food away from other influencers? Is your Basal insulin holding your blood sugar steady, at a number near 90? Is it.

Sarah 33:06
Um, I recently changed it and we're seeing that it's come down a lot. It's not around 90, but it's definitely lower than it used to be. Okay,

Scott Benner 33:15
so let's just say I don't know where it is now. But let's say it's at 150. And you're thinking, Oh, that's great, because I used to find stability at 200. So that's right, you're right. But more basil, like keep moving your basil up until it holds you stable and steady at a number that you're happy with. Okay? For me, I mean, we're shooting for like 85 with my daughter. But, you know, let's say you could just try for 100 for now. But the point is, is that if your basil is well dialed in, if you understand how to Pre-Bolus your meals, and you're pretty good at counting your carbs, or more accurately understanding the impact that carbs have on you, you're going to have an A one C in the sexes, and you're not going to have a lot of lows, and you're not going to spike high. And so that's sort of the next thing right? So first is Basal. The second is you have to Pre-Bolus your meal, so do you Pre-Bolus your meals.

Sarah 34:17
I tend to Bolus like as I'm sitting down with my food.

Scott Benner 34:21
Don't worry, I already knew that when you told me right one, say so. So now the next thing to do is you get your basil right. And then you learn your Pre-Bolus time. And you can do that easily by getting stable somewhere away from food like a few hours removed from food or insulin. Find yourself stable anywhere so you're stable 250 put in a Bolus that you think will move you from 150 to 90 and see how long it takes for that Bolus to begin working that amount of time is about your Pre-Bolus time. And now let's say that ends up being 15 minutes. Now you start Bolus in your meals, 15 minutes before you eat them. that stops the big spike, right? And it also keeps you from getting low after meals, because I'm also going to guess that you get low after you eat and have to retreat with food and then get high again, does that happen?

Sarah 35:17
It happens sometimes. But actually, what tends to happen is I'll kind of stay the same blood sugar. Ah,

Scott Benner 35:25
so you're going up and staying up. So you're not using enough insulin. And you need to pre write so

Sarah 35:34
and so we're changing that we're trying to insulin sensitivity is been a struggle for me

Scott Benner 35:41
the idea of how far a unit moves your blood sugar. Okay, well, so if your basil is wrong, it's going to be hard to figure that out. So yeah, imagine if the Basal insulin, I'm going to make up numbers here. But imagine your Basal insulin is at a unit an hour, just a nice round number. And it really should be, I don't know, a unit and a quarter an hour. So that means that every hour that you're awake, your Basal insulin is deficient by a quarter. So every four hours, you're missing a unit, or four 812 1624, you're missing six, is that right? six units of basil a day. And so if you had that insulin in your basil, your blood sugar would be lower. And it would be easier to impact a blood sugar with a correction. So saying that, you know, your insulin sensitivity is a unit for 50 points, but your basil is off by 20 or 40%. That's not accurate. So it's basil first, then Pre-Bolus. Then really understanding your meals and your food. And by that I just mean really having a firm grasp of the glycemic load and glycemic index of foods meaning that 10 carbs worth of watermelon is not going to move your blood sugar as far or need as much insulin as 10 carbs of white rice. Right, right. And once you have that down, and you can start making better decisions about your meals. Those are the three those are the cornerstones to me. Of course, if there was one more I would actually have a cornerstone, but let's triangle stones. Those are the three ideas, Basil Pre-Bolus really getting the amount of insulin you need for your meal down after that you branch off into what protein and fat due to like, later rises after you've eaten and understanding stuff like that. But honestly, that's that's the base of it right there. In my opinion. Does that all make sense to you?

Sarah 37:48
That's great. And I mean, it's something that is definitely going to take time. And I know it's not easy. It's easier said than done. But I'm very hopeful. I agree.

Scott Benner 38:04
And I don't agree. I okay. So what I'll say is, if you came here today, and said to me, hey, Scott, here's my libri controller and my pump. About four hours from now I could have your blood sugar stable at 85. And then we'd know your basil was right. And then we could figure out your Pre-Bolus and move on. It's it's hard because you don't have all the tools like the knowledge and I mean knowledge when I say tools to do the thing. So it seems like every idea is just the it probably feels like you're just throwing darts with your eyes closed, right? Like you're guessing like maybe this is where I turned up. It tells me this your basil profile? Is it one basil insulin all day? Or do you have a whole bunch of different segments

Sarah 38:53
I have on my pump, it's it goes by like, few hours at a time is a different basil. So like the morning is different than like lunchtime, and then the afternoon and then like dinnertime and then overnight.

Scott Benner 39:08
So I would tell you to consider that it's possible that because these all these ideas are kind of mismatched, that you're creating high and low segments during the day thinking that they're organic, that they're just happening, and that you're trying to move the basil around to stop them. So you have a feeling like I always get low between two and four in the afternoon. So we'll turn my basil down. And what I'll tell you is that the first time of any 24 hour period that your basil is wrong, if it's too weak, you're going to get higher later. Eventually you're going to Bolus at that high number which is going to make you lower later. If you get in the same pattern over and over again. You can fool yourself into believing I'm always low at nine NPM when the truth is, you're using too much insulin for your dinner at 6pm. And I'm making stuff up now. But yeah, you know, like, that's the idea. So that's why I'm saying, Basil Pre-Bolus. So the basil keeps things stable, the Pre-Bolus stops the spikes, not having the spikes stops the corrections. When you stop the corrections all the time, you're stopping insulin from being active once the food's out of your system. Now you're not having lows, etc, or you're using enough insulin at your meals, which is stopping a high, you know, and now you're sitting higher than you want to be forever waiting for it to come down. And the truth is, if a high blood sugar comes down on its own three, and four and five hours later, that could mean your basil is too strong at that point. So it's, it's it. I know, it seems super complicated, but I would tell you, seriously, try the pro tip episodes, I bet you they will help you. And I want you to let me know if they don't.

Sarah 40:59
Right. Yeah, that's it sounds really great. Cool. That's excellent.

Scott Benner 41:02
Well, tell me a little bit about your plans. After college, so what do you have to do to become a diabetes educator.

Sarah 41:11
So I'm not sure if it's different for different states, but at least in Virginia, there's a few different routes that I can take, I can become just a nurse straight up nurse, I can become a nutritionist, or a dietitian, or even an optometrist to get into an exam to sit for an exam to become a certified diabetes educator. So I'm still in the process of deciding which way I want to go with that, because right now, my program is teaching. And I'm going to graduate with my associates degree in the spring semester. So I'm focused on finishing that first. But fortunately, for me, a lot of the classes that I've already taken are like prerequisites for the nursing program. So that's kind of where I'm leaning towards

Scott Benner 42:08
nice. Do you like being around people and working with people? I love it. That's a good spot for you then. Yeah, there's some people try to become nurses. And they're not people, people, persons persons, people's people, persons. What is the What do you you're a people, person, people person, I'm not a people person.

Sarah 42:26
But at the same time, I'm kind of an introverted person, whereas I like my time to recharge. So we'll see how it goes. Being a nanny is is interesting. But you really got to be able to work.

Scott Benner 42:43
Yeah. Okay. So being introverted, does that mean that when you're around other people projecting an image that you think people want to see in a social setting drains? You

Sarah 42:57
know, I think it's more of, I prefer smaller groups, like I love to be around people. But when it becomes like, bigger groups, like more than like five people, I'm just kind of like, Girl, I can't really talk to all of you, and like, keep a conversation going, but maybe I'll just talk to one person. So that in that kind of way,

Scott Benner 43:18
that's interesting. When there are a lot of people, they all seem like individuals that need attention. Like you can't see people's background.

Sarah 43:26
Well, yes and no. So I like to Well, before the pandemic got like a party, for example, I would stick to like my group of friends. But I mean, that's normal. Yeah, so I'm not sure how to explain that. But

Scott Benner 43:41
yeah, well, I don't know, either. I'm just interested because I'm imagining myself in a group of like, many, many people, and I feel like I just see the sea of people around as just a blur of nothing. You don't have to be like, I don't see this on them. They could be there or not be there. I don't love gatherings like that either. Just so you know, I'm not. I'm not Yeah, that's not my favorite either. I don't know a lot of people who love to be around, you know, 100 screaming people. A lot of fun. For me at least.

Unknown Speaker 44:14
Wow.

Scott Benner 44:15
Okay, is there anything we haven't talked about that you want to talk about?

Sarah 44:20
I just wanted to mention, like, as we're going over the pro tips and things like I love all of the advice, and I really appreciate it. But it's important to remember for people with diabetes, in anxiety, like it is manageable, but it just takes a little bit more. What's the word? I guess, motivation for some people, it could be people with depression. It just takes a little bit more motivation to change these things. So I'm in a good place right now where I can Look at the three points you gave me. And I'm really excited to try this. But if you talk to me a year, two years ago, I would have just been like, Okay, that sounds great. But I don't think I'll be doing that right now, like, if Does that make sense? So it's important to remember that it's gonna, it's gonna work out, but it just, each person is different. And I totally respect that. And I just want to make sure that that's no one everybody listening can still remember, because I was definitely in the place where advice was more. So I was I was taking advice as insults in the past. And now I'm super excited about advice in diabetes, because I have that newfound hope for it.

Scott Benner 45:47
Oh, that's interesting. So advice felt like an insult. Meaning at some points, yes. Yeah. Just like, you know, hey, you know, you could do, you could get up and go for a walk. And that would be good for you. And you're like, I know, I'm lazy. And that's how it felt, right.

Sarah 46:01
And I know, a lot of people out there have anxiety and depression. But for people, like my boyfriend, who is an amazing support system, and all my friends, but I'm one of the only people in my, in my, I guess, bubble in my group that suffer with depression and anxiety as intense as I did. So for a while, it was hard to even reach out to be like, Hey, I'm struggling. And I in it, and sometimes it was just like, Well, why don't you go do this, like you said, and I think some it's important to remember that it's gonna be okay. You just have to? Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:43
that's interesting, because you found part of the podcast where it was people talking. And that made you feel like you're not alone. And that that was helpful. But I think, if I'm not wrong, what you're saying is that if you're anxious or depressed, that the process is going to take longer, right? Because you kind of have to make yourself right with a step and then move to the next one. And that even just saying, Hey, you know, it's basil Pre-Bolus. This, this is where you start. That could seem overwhelming to somebody Exactly.

Sarah 47:13
Because it's even though it's, we, as you were discussing it, you were like 1233 points, it's, we can do this in a couple of hours. For someone like me, it's more than that. It's more like, Well, what about this? What about this as an anxious person, you just think of all the bad things instantly, instead of like, Oh, this is going to be simple. We can fix this right now. You know, so, for people, I just want to make sure that everyone can can know that it that it just was gonna take a few more

Scott Benner 47:48
steps, I think, but and those steps are. So my 123 are really four or five, six, because Right, right, but 123 for you, if you have anxiety is how to how to get to a place where you can put those other things into practice.

Sarah 48:03
Right? And it's it's a lot of mental work.

Scott Benner 48:08
But, but are you unable to tell me what those other steps are? Because they're, do you even know what they were for yourself?

Sarah 48:16
See, I think it's different for each person. But for me, I would be like, Well, what about if I want to snack? What if I just go take a nap? What if I actually go do yoga? What if I go take a walk? What if somebody needs me to come to this? What if I'm working that day? And what if I'm have this big project to do tonight like that is kind of where I'm coming from? So like the anxiety of everything else in life? So with those steps, I

Scott Benner 48:45
say so the anxiety gives you worry about endless things that whatever you can imagine you're willing to worry about in that moment. Yeah. Like, like, what if I have to paint my room in the middle of this while we're Basal testing then right gonna happen? Scott, obviously, I'm gonna die. Like that. Right? Like it feel right. Like, I see. Okay,

Sarah 49:04
well, that's so like, when you were saying that, obviously, you're not gonna go to that place. But my brain is just like, what about this? What about this? And it's not like a bad thing. I'm just saying it's, it's some people. I mean, I kind of struggle with that, you know? No, I

Scott Benner 49:21
understand. I really do. I know people have anxiety. And I've spoken to a lot of people on the podcast who've been depressed or anxious and, and I'm never not it gives me a feeling of bewilderment, because I don't have that affliction, right? It's not happening to me, right? You know, if you said to me, you know, Scott later we're gonna go downstairs and get in the car and drive away. I don't start thinking like, Oh, I hope I don't fall on the steps or have a car accident or something like that. occurred to me. And it's

Sarah 49:49
Yeah, it's kind of funny, because that's your kind of talking how my boyfriend's explained things to me. So he's, we're like the ying and yang of that. So He has never struggled with anxiety. And I'm over here like, we would have what if this happened? What do we do this and then adding a long distance relationship on top of that, it's it's just a funny thing to me.

Scott Benner 50:12
Well, and it's tough because if you're the person with anxiety, it is not as easy as just being told Don't be anxious. Yeah, exactly. It would be like if someone came up to me and said, Hey, just stop having cancer. It doesn't work that way. And yet, people who don't have anxiety can't fathom what's happening to you. I know it's for me, I'm mesmerized and interested as you're talking, because everything you're explaining is completely foreign to me, I can't even put context to it. I just don't have I don't have that experience, you know, right. And to help you. Like, if you made it my empirical reason for being alive to help you not feel anxious. I don't know what I would say to you. You know, what I mean? Like, I can hope is that if your blood sugars become more stable, that'll be one less thing for you to be anxious about, maybe that'll free up another break in the clouds for you to do something else, you know,

Sarah 51:07
right. And that's, that's why I say I think it's super important for people with diabetes, even if you don't struggle with anxiety, or depression or, or any mental illnesses, I think it's still super important to see a therapist to talk to somebody about it, because it can be really stressful. Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:28
Can you similarly to what I similar to what I just said, Do you have trouble believing that some people just don't have anxiety?

Sarah 51:36
No, not at all. I, I've seen it firsthand, like my mom doesn't ever really share the same feelings as me in that sense. And neither does my boyfriend or my best friend even. So, it's kind of interesting. But I've also learned from them in that way, like they've helped me to be more carefree. Yeah, but saying so it's a good thing, I think to be a part of communities that people are like me, and then people that are like, you were just trying to learn from each other. Right?

Scott Benner 52:08
Again, a place where you can be aspirational. You can look up and say, Hey, they don't seem to be worried that the house is gonna fall. Why is that happening? Yeah, right. And so what happens when you're around people who don't have anxiety? Do you just like, do you find wimzie? Do you just close your eyes and jump? Like, how do you? How do you get to that? Like, how do they become impactful on you, when they're not anxious?

Sarah 52:31
Something that has really helped me is grounding. So I'll just, like, look down at my feet, like, no, count my fingers or something silly like that. And just think about where am i right now? So I'll be at someone's house. And I'm like, Well, why am I worrying about this thing that's a couple months away, or just like, you never know what you're gonna, your brain is gonna make you feel with anxiety sometimes. And so I like to look at them, see how their body languages and I kind of just imitate that. And then for some reason, for me, it helps to just kind of act like them. And then I'm all of a sudden calm, and it's just like, Well, why was I worried in the first place? And before therapy, I never really would try anything like that. So I would just, it just was like a snowball effect.

Scott Benner 53:26
Yeah, so you basically fake it till you make it for your own. You're tricking your brain into being like, we're cool. We did it. It's alright. Don't worry, right. And then it kind of lets go.

Sarah 53:36
Yeah, and it works for me. And I'm sticking to that. And that's kind of how I do with diabetes. Like, this morning, I woke up, my number was 207. And it's like, okay, that's how my mornings gonna go. But it's really, it's not a problem. Like I can Bolus for my breakfast, check my number right after keep up with it and didn't turn into anything other than that, you know. So that's exciting.

Scott Benner 54:03
That really is exciting for you. I'm glad. Yeah, that's excellent. I mean, that's how the only way to do this thing, right is you have to have a short memory, like having diabetes is like being a pitcher. You can't You can't give up a homerun and then turn back to the next batter and think I'm going to give up a homerun, again, this is what's gonna happen, I suck at this, this is gonna go poor, you just have to forget it and move on. And it really is. It's one of the steps I think of coming to terms with diabetes is you really do have to come to terms with this is what it is. It's always going to be this not every day, maybe but sometimes, and I have to be flexible, so that when it does pop up, I don't get mired down in it, to just fix it and move on. And that's it. Yeah, good for you. Wow. I think you're a really strong person. It's a lot of extra work that that, you know, some people don't have to do that you're having to do. And it's very cool that you didn't give up. It's Really great that you saw something and, and kind of ran. ran towards it. I'm, I'm very proud of you and I've only known you for like an hour. So thank you. Yeah, and your episodes gonna be called break in the clouds. Oh, that's awesome. That nice. That's beautiful. Thank you. Oh, no one's ever said that before once I got yelled at. I'm gonna clear up said this. She's like, No, you're not. I was like, I'm sorry, I won't. Like it's very easy to push me around

Sarah 55:28
when you mentioned pictures and and home runs and things that reminded me. I played softball in high school for two years. And in two years, I probably had about 40 juice boxes. And so my softball coach called me juice box, which is kind of funny that I'm on the Juicebox Podcast,

Scott Benner 55:49
juice box. Get into the field, you're playing second.

Sarah 55:52
Yeah, I would be in the dugout with the Capri Sun before the next inning was up. And it was I don't know, I was a mess.

Scott Benner 56:01
Well, listen, I think there's a world where you could go play softball again, your blood sugar wouldn't get low while you were playing? Absolutely. And that world, just for clarity is a built on a great basil rate Pre-Bolus in your meals and understanding your food. That's it. I am dying to hear back from you. So I will keep in touch. Yeah, I want to know how this goes. I really do.

Sarah 56:26
Yeah, I'm really excited to this year has definitely been crazy, is a good word to describe it, everybody. But it's been kind of the best year for me.

Scott Benner 56:37
So let's, let's end with that. Because I agree with you, this might have been good for a lot of people. So taking a lot of the variables out of your life, for the lockdown gave you more bandwidth to look at the things you need to look at Is that about right?

Sarah 56:53
That's right, it's definitely kind of the not really a break. But definitely a break from unnecessary stresses in my life. And I was really able to reconnect with myself. I know that's cheesy, but it's true. And being able to have the job that I have and be able to go to school online and take care of myself. It's been wonderful.

Scott Benner 57:20
It's made some space for you to operate in. Yeah, so between the anxiety, the diabetes, and the rat race of life, you were just you were you were inside like a snow globe, and somebody was just constantly shaking it. But now, somebody put the snow globe down and you're able to focus on what's around you and, and this nose kind of fall on everything still, when you're like, Okay, I can take care of my blood sugar better than I can do this. And then you just needed more time you needed a slower launch. To me like, I really do think that's what it is. And it's what you said earlier, right? Like you just, there's more steps for you to get to something. And while while everyone else is racing forward, you'd prefer to walk forward, because it's gonna take you a little longer to step over the roadblocks in front of you. But then once you get over those blocks, you're good, as long as you don't get into a group of more than five people. I'm just kidding.

Sarah 58:12
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a really great way to think about it. And I don't think there's really anything wrong with that, recognizing it and making the change. Are you kidding, that's what's important.

Scott Benner 58:24
There's nothing wrong with whatever anyone needs to do, to get through their thing. You know, like, because everybody has something. And you know, you just need to make adjustments, like the world's not like the way the world looks, makes everybody feel like there are rules. Like, this is what I'm supposed to do. This is what I have to do. This is the timeframe, I need to accomplish these things. And, and if I'm not making a certain amount of money, or don't get to this point in a certain amount of time, this whole thing's an abject failure, and I'm gonna die penniless and alone. That's how everybody thinks about life. And you really shouldn't, there's a billion things going on around you, you can just find the spot where you fit and settle into.

Sarah 59:06
And I think that's just the best way to think about it. I become a real optimist this over this pandemic, which is, it's kind of ironic, you know, but I really agree. I think

Scott Benner 59:17
there's a place for everybody. Yeah, there really is. And if you're trying to jam yourself into a spot you don't fit, you really should stop doing that. Right. You know, it really is a it's just a fool's errand to make yourself into something that you're not. You're delightful, sir. I really appreciate you doing this.

Sarah 59:36
Thank you. I'm so glad that I was able to come on and if I can reach just one person struggling kind of the same way I was. I mean, that's so worth it to me.

Scott Benner 59:45
You're gonna reach a lot more than one person so so thank you very much for sharing your story. I Was it easy for you to talk about yourself? Or did did you find this troubling?

Sarah 59:55
So I reached out to you maybe in June or two I can't even remember. And you telling me December, I was like, Oh, that's gonna be great, whatever. Didn't think about it for a couple months, anxiety rolls around when I get the reminder. One week away, you have a zoom with the Scott and I'm like, Oh gosh, what am I gonna even talk about? But it's always like, so worth it after I do a big thing like this or, you know, it's kind of like the stage fright of a project in school. Yeah, in that way. Yeah. I mean, it was not hard to talk about myself, because I reminded myself that some other people might be feeling the same way.

Scott Benner 1:00:36
Yeah, well, you did great. And they definitely are feeling the same way. So it's very valuable for you to talk about it. Do I have to put this right out? Are you gonna or you're not gonna freak out if it takes a little while for it to go up?

Sarah 1:00:46
Oh, no, no. This was a really cool experience for me.

Scott Benner 1:00:50
I'm glad I really am.

Huge thanks to Sarah for coming on the show and sharing her story. Don't forget there's gonna be a little update from Sarah in a second. I also want to thank on the pod makers of the Omni pod dash and makers of the Omni pod promise for sponsoring this episode of the Juicebox Podcast, of course also to be thanked today. The Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You can find out more about that meter at Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box and the Omni pod is available to you at Omni pod comm forward slash juice box head over and find out more.

I reached out to Sarah to get an update. And here's what she said. I graduated with my associates degree in early childhood education this May. I also earned certifications in children's education, career studies, and early childhood development. I was inspired to become a diabetic educator, but realize that teaching young children is my true passion. Just this week, I was offered a lead teaching position. In a Montessori Preschool. She's very excited. But she still wants to continue to spread awareness for Type One Diabetes outside of her career. She also says that there's always room for improvement. But my diabetes management has gotten better and my agency is getting better. It's now at 6.4. She's super excited to be vaccinated and getting back out into the world and meeting her friends. And she was excited to come on the podcast. Thank you so much, Sarah, I was excited for having you. I am super sorry that I lost the minutes at the beginning where we were getting to know each other. I want to thank everyone for listening and let you know that I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.