Scott Benner 6/18/21 Scott Benner 6/18/21

#494 Monkeys Eyebrow

Phoebe is an adult living with type 1 diabetes and she is an open book.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:12
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 494 of the Juicebox Podcast on today's show, Phoebe. That's it. I just liked Phoebe. I really enjoyed talking to her. I think you're going to enjoy listening to her. isn't that easy? Simple. Phoebe's a type one. She's had diabetes for a while. It's moved to all over the country. Her dad is super interesting. Please listen to this episode. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

This episode came within a hair's breadth of being called possum trot. Anyway, smelly cat was also in there but for reasons that will not be evident while you're listening to most of you. Nevertheless, this is Phoebe.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, please, please go to Contour Next one.com Ford slash juice box. It is the most comprehensive website about the Contour Next One that you'll ever find. I mean, that seems obvious. But seriously, there's a ton of stuff there. The meter is incredibly accurate, rather affordable, and it has Second Chance test strips, it's worth your time to look into Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. The episode is also sponsored by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. Summer is here people it is time to swim and frolic and you'd love to do it with an omni pod Trust me. It is tubeless it does not encumber you while you're doing such things and you do not have to disconnect to go into water. That's a big deal. a really, really big deal. You may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. Find out on the pod.com forward slash juice box.

Phoebe 2:33
Hi, my name is Phoebe. I live in Livermore, California. It's a town maybe about an hour east of San Francisco. But I'm from the east coast. So it's weird being in California for me still. And I have been a type one diabetic for Oh, God got to do math. 2727 years.

Scott Benner 2:57
Why did you pick this time? If you're from California, it's so early in the because

Phoebe 3:01
Friday, I have Friday's off. And I also use Friday as chore day. So by the time we're done, all of the grocery stores will be starting to open and I can go before everyone else goes.

Scott Benner 3:12
Wait a minute. How are you? Why are you so well planned out?

Unknown Speaker 3:16
I believe my husband, I'm 30 where you bleep?

Scott Benner 3:19
Does he hit you if you don't have groceries?

Unknown Speaker 3:21
No, no.

Scott Benner 3:23
Can he hear this? she just looked over her shoulder. She just looked over. Make a sign if she needs me to call 911 No, no, no, seriously,

Phoebe 3:34
I um, when we first when we first moved in together and we went grocery shopping together we would go like the second the grocery store opens were like in the grocery store. And I've just gotten used to that. And now when I go to the grocery store when there's you know a million people I'm like, Oh, so you Reno's grocery store at a kit. Why it Why am I dealing with people in a parking lot?

Scott Benner 4:00
This is the worst TV telling me that you have rules that are so specific around grocery store shopping that if you don't show up when no one's there. It ruins the experience for you.

Phoebe 4:10
It does now Actually, yes, I used to not care but my bandwidth for dealing with other people in a grocery store just significantly decreased. So time. No, I've been I've been up I've already started laundry. Instead of doing a podcast, I would probably have cleaned all the bathrooms Fridays are my chore days. And yeah, by the time I would get home, the only thing would be left is fold laundry and mop the fullness.

Scott Benner 4:41
That's hilarious. Let me see something here. I was gonna say I'm a little hung up here. I was gonna say that. When I talk to people on the phone. I can't sit down and do it. So I'm a huge proponent of cleaning toilets while while I'm on the phone, so I I find myself saying a lot. Hey, I'm about to flush the toilet that I have to explain that I enjoy. But by the way, enjoy cleaning toilets while I'm on the phone is an incorrect statement. I just feel like it's a good use of time that would otherwise be a better

Phoebe 5:15
use of time when, when I'm on like a conference call that I don't have to be at a very active member. That's usually when I'll like sweep the floors do the kitty litter stuff like that.

Scott Benner 5:29
I hear you. Okay, so I guess I want to understand how you got to California from the east coast.

Phoebe 5:35
Oh, gosh. So Well, let me back it up to when I graduated from college. Since graduating college, I've lived in Baton Rouge, Kentucky, North Carolina, New Jersey. The Philly area, Alexandria, Virginia and now California. Because God, you're right, a lot of a lot of it was job related. Okay, so I got my first job in a chemical plant in Baton Rouge. And then the project that they hired a lot of people for was canceled or they had to basically scratch it so then they transferred a bunch of us new hires throughout the company and that's how I ended up in Kentucky as a uranium tetrafluoride production engineer. And then

Scott Benner 6:36
what I What Are You Smarter something Phoebe What's going on here? I never know who I'm getting on this podcast. What do you know that other people don't know?

Phoebe 6:43
A lot. I'm so I'm a chemical engineer through my college degree. And currently, I'm a safety engineer at a national lab. And between the end and now I've had all different kinds of manufacturing jobs. But being in the middle of nowhere Kentucky, just as a not married 22 year old was like the worst thing you could be you know, the prospects out there, whereas Well, well at least he has all his tea.

Scott Benner 7:20
Hey, people listen to this that this podcast and Kentucky Phoebe.

Phoebe 7:23
You're killing my people from Paducah. She between possum trot and monkeys eyebrow, but you didn't know that. Wait a minute. Did you make that up? Those are real towns. My husband has a shirt that says a welcome to possum trot, Kentucky.

Scott Benner 7:39
I have to tell everybody listening from Kentucky right now that if that's actually true, and I think I have no reason to doubt Phoebe, then her snarkiness earlier is reasonable. And I don't think we can hold her account, I

Phoebe 7:50
promise. It's true. It's not like I was in Louisville or Lexington or you know, one of the populous areas. Like the nearest target was an hour away. That's

Scott Benner 8:02
a very rural place by yourself when you're 22. Yeah, exactly. Good job, or was it just you needed to start somewhere with the idea of

Phoebe 8:10
kind of I needed to start somewhere because when I got transferred, I was only six months into my career and quitting at that point would be, it would be harder to start up. So I was like, Alright, I'll go here. I'll work until you know, my contract is so I don't have to pay back relocation. And then I'll just find something else. And then that's what I did. And I was in a rotational program for

Scott Benner 8:33
Hi. She's killing a cat while we're talking. What are you doing to that workout? Oh, he says no. He knows when he wants attention. Okay. I do something similar.

Phoebe 8:45
Yeah. No, if he literally will forget where Andrew and I are when we go to bed. And I just realized that it's really dark in my room and heal me out from downstairs and we have to essentially invite him upstairs into the bedroom. So he can, you know, come snuggle.

Scott Benner 9:06
Alright, so give me a second here. So you're, I understand taking a job anywhere when you start off, but the part that throws me off a little bit as being by yourself and because I imagine I'm imagining maybe I'm wrong, that you work all day, and then there's not a lot to do you don't know anybody and you're not near anything. Is that how you're that's? Yeah,

Phoebe 9:24
that's pretty much what Kentucky was. I actually started dating Andrew when I was in Kentucky. He was a groomsmen and I was a bridesmaid at our close friends from college wedding. And so I met him and told off my ex at that same wedding and like, I knew when I saw injury I was like, Huh, all right.

Scott Benner 9:52
Target acquired, saw Andrew and thought he's better than the one I have.

Phoebe 10:00
And yeah, I saw Andrew flirted very heavily. And then that jaw at that job. We had a four day weekend for Labor Day. And we had been texting each other because he was in New York getting his PhD, and I was in Kentucky, just wasting away. And, you know, we've been texting and I was like, Hey, I have a four day weekend. For Labor Day. What should I do? And I think he jokingly was like, Oh, you should come to Buffalo. And I was like, I could come to Buffalo and then like, 10 seconds later, I purchased a plane ticket. And

Scott Benner 10:35
Phoebe went to Buffalo. That's amazing. Are you unstable? Or no, he just freeze. No.

Phoebe 10:42
He's, he's a good. He's one of the best friends of one of my best friends from college. So she has good taste. So I have to tell you, he wasn't like a weirdo.

Scott Benner 10:52
For people in Kentucky. It does not bode well that buffalo was the place she escaped to. Getting his PhD. He's smart. So that's nice. We're gonna have a little tiny smart babies one day.

Unknown Speaker 11:03
I hope so. Yeah. Wouldn't it be crazy if they were kind of dumb to what you were just like, that's like,

Phoebe 11:09
other than them getting type one diabetes, then being like, dumb, or their favorite subject being English is like my worst nightmare.

Scott Benner 11:19
I had a conversation yesterday with a couple and I don't do a lot of three ways. I don't do a lot of three way recordings. But this was fun. And they were both very late. They had very, you know, kind of specific, like, traits and hobbies and things. And I like to think the whole time I was talking to them as their kids gonna want to play football, and they're just gonna sit there.

Phoebe 11:42
I hope if I have a son, he doesn't want to play football. Soccer is fine. But football with all those head injuries just freaks me out. Oh,

Scott Benner 11:49
I didn't even meet the head injuries. These people were just the furthest thing from sporting enthusiasts that you were ever going to meet. And I thought Imagine if they had to sit on a field for 15 years. Probably.

Phoebe 11:59
We'd love it. Okay, we're both Penn Staters. So I mean, we have a wall dedicated to like, football stadium, the football stadium panoramas in our home. So

Scott Benner 12:14
so this is this is what we need to get to from your email. She's gonna show me Yeah, well, this is the exact witness the dartboard Yeah, from somebody who went to Penn State now. I was so when, when when Phoebe sends me an email. She just says kind of like, you know, I was in college, I did this like Dance Marathon to raise money for cancer. And I was like, immediately being from the northeast, I thought Phoebe went to Penn State, because well, especially since you're in Jersey, I'm sure you've either seen the cameras or have almost hit one with your car. I have grown up around a bunch of Penn State students standing on corners collecting nickels and dimes for a very large portion of my life. And I know about somehow I tangentially understand that there's this dance marathon to raise money for cancer. But mostly what I know about people from Penn State art is that they, they are just shy of being cult members. Because why do you all love it so much?

Phoebe 13:14
Um, so you know, people are like, well, it's such a big school, aren't you? Just a number. And honestly, the way I went through it is, you make it you make the school as big or as small as you want it to be. And by the time I was a senior, like, you know, I was, I was knee deep in my engineering classes I was involved with on I was involved with homecoming, I was in a sorority, I was in another club, and there's just, there's so much to do. And of course, you know, football is just fun. And at that time, you're 18 to 22 years old, you have absolutely no responsibilities compared to being you know, a real life adult. And, you know, when you're when your biggest responsibility is making sure that you study for a test with your other engineering friends, it's just, no, it was, it was probably one of the funnest four years of my life. And

Scott Benner 14:16
football was a big part of that. I have never met a person who went to Penn State who didn't absolutely adore it. Just Yeah,

Phoebe 14:23
it was And plus, you know, I mean, not to, you know, totally miss out on like, the academic part like Penn State engineering is a top engineering school. It's cool. Like it it's, it's a, you know, and plus, the good thing too is they tell you this statistic when you're going through it, one in one every 100 working professionals is a Penn Stater. So, um, you know, eventually we'll meet maybe maybe a hiring manager is a former Penn Stater and boom connected click

Scott Benner 15:00
And then then you do the secret handshake that only you from Penn State and the devil knows. And then next thing you know, yeah, so you've got she's making. Maybe they're saying, alright, let's not mess with these people just in case they really are called and I don't want them coming after me. But anyway, she's like, no, we're not which is exactly what they would train you to say by the way VB true. No kool aid is delicious, by the way. So you're diagnosed at what age?

Phoebe 15:29
I was going into my third birthday, actually had to ask my parents about my diagnosis story because I didn't really know it. Okay, so, um, I first asked my mom, and she was like, we were shopping for your third birthday cake. And oh, backstory, my mom is a nurse and my dad is a surgeon. Okay, so medical, strong medical background for both of these people.

Scott Benner 15:51
Before you start, were they shopping early in the morning before anybody else was there for your birthday cake?

Phoebe 15:58
I think so. Honestly. It was in the morning. find that out. Send me an email. We'll do okay. Um, so, you know, my mom was like, you were very specific. You wanted the mermaid cake. And as we were, as we were shopping, sorry, I need some water real quick. You're fine. There we go. Um, as we were shopping, I go, Mama. I'm thirsty. She was like, Okay, well, it's may it's warm out, have a juice box. And then I go, Mama. I'm still thirsty. And she's like, wow, you're really drinking this really fast. Are you okay?

Unknown Speaker 16:31
They go. Yeah, my mouth feels like cotton. She's like cotton.

Phoebe 16:36
That what the hell. And so she was already on alert, because that's just a weird thing for two, almost three year old to say, yeah. And then she's talking to my dad later that night. And she was like hay fever has been acting kind of weird. She's been going to the bathroom a lot. And she told me her mouth felt like caught and my dad was like, Oh, that's really odd. Well, let's keep our eye on her for the next couple of days. And I think the next day is a weekend. But my dad had to do some rounds at the hospital. And he brought me with him and I would toggle after him. And apparently all the nurses loved it. And before we go, I'm like Papa, I have to pee. And he's like, Oh, you won't go pee. And then when we get to the hospital, not even a 15 minute driveway, pop, I have to pee again. Okay, think takes me to the bathroom. And he's only gone in his own. What's only there for like an hour and I'm like, pop I have to pee again. He's like, Okay, how let's and he takes me to the emergency room and finds me an empty bed. He's like, sit up here feed. And let's test your blood sugar. And it was like, 420 He's like,

Unknown Speaker 17:39
dammit. So.

Phoebe 17:44
Yeah, so I think between the time my parents noticed I had symptoms. And when they actually confirmed the diagnosis, it was less than 48 hours. Yeah. And I actually have the half brother, who's 20 years. Wait now 30 years older than me. 30 No.

Scott Benner 18:05
That seems unreal. Yeah. It's not No. Brother. Yeah, I your dad's 114.

Phoebe 18:15
Papa guys. Oh, gosh, he was 60 when I turned 21. So he's 69? Yes, yeah. 70 8080 to 90. Yeah. So David was born in 70. And he has type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 18:29
Okay, hold on. And we're related through dad. Yeah, I was gonna say slow down a second here. Sorry. I'm excited and nervous. You're excited and nervous? Yes. Are you seriously? Well, that every one of you Who says that? If my wife could hear she would smack you on the head for being nervous to be near me. Okay, but, but wait, I need to understand. Not that I think it has anything to do with anything, but maybe it does. You're 30 now? Yes. You literally have a half brother who is 69 years old? No. My dad is 60 to 69 years old. So your dad had your half brother when he was nine. Dad is a sexual prodigy.

Phoebe 19:10
I did math wrong. Sorry, David. David is 50. Okay. And then I think Tara is about to turn terrorismo half sister may start over. My dad has been married three times. And he has had kids in each of those relationships. from his first marriage was David David is the other type one diabetic in the family got it. From his second marriage came Tara than Levi. And then from his third marriage came came me. Okay, so I'm, I have siblings, but I would say I grew up an only child.

Scott Benner 19:45
I hear that. Does your dad have any children from his fourth or fifth marriage? No, no, not from his fourth. He's recently remarried. Gotcha. He's your dad like the Ganga is Khan of doctors. I see just oh man. I don't know if I want my dad to listen to this or not just like is he get up every morning and just kind of crack his fingers and go, Hmm, is it gonna be? I'm gonna spread some seed today, baby. No idea. I gotcha. Okay. All right, by the way, I was joking. And then when he told me he was married again, I was like, Damn, I'm intuitive. Although intuitive, yep. debate. So that's got a ton of energy. Yeah, he got no money. I'm betting

Unknown Speaker 20:36
he's doing okay, quite fun.

Phoebe 20:39
middle of nowhere, Maine and his house is on the bay. And I get jealous every time I see pictures, and he watched her fishes for himself. And, yeah, make sure they don't get pregnant. God is just a, he's the most like eclectic man. I've known and until I'm met my husband. He was like the smartest man I've ever known. So it's interesting.

Scott Benner 21:03
That's really kinda interesting. Okay, so you have an older half brother, who also has type one.

Phoebe 21:07
So you guys know step 15. And according to my dad, his symptoms were much slower onset than mine. Like it took them a while to figure out David was a diabetic, but for me, it was like,

Scott Benner 21:25
right away. Well, he had also seen that before I'm imagining unless he was true. Yeah. That's interesting. He so he's the thread between the diabetes your father. Gotcha. Yeah. Your dad can get anybody pregnant and make a baby with Type One Diabetes. He's like a super cool Blake. To two out of four kids, right? That's he's batting 500 Yeah, I really I know he's older. But I'd like to see him knock up two more ladies to see what happens.

Phoebe 21:52
My dad kinda looks like the most interesting man in the world, is how I would but paler.

Scott Benner 22:00
So you imagine the most interesting man with a with a darker sheen?

Phoebe 22:07
Like the you know, the original dos techies, man? Yes. He was very tan my dad,

Scott Benner 22:11
literally. Oh, I say I got you. Alright, that's who my dad was. You weren't just being there was no hyperbole there. You were literally

Unknown Speaker 22:20
making a real reference reference. Gotcha. Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:23
I gotta stop using so many big words that people are gonna figure out I know more than I said. Let's get back to me saying great. And wow. All right now, okay. I'm not much smarter than I purport to be on the podcast by the meaning they're fine. Okay, so you are diagnosed at three? What was it like growing up with type one that was 27 years ago, and I can do math reasonably well. That was like, 1997 9393. Yeah, I transposed the seven and a three and my backwards math. Okay. 1993. Fair enough. Yep. I, by the way, in 1993, I was 24 years old. So you seem very young to me. And, and so what was it like growing up?

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Phoebe 27:16
I don't remember growing up with any other type one diabetics. And it was actually quite hard in the early years because my parents divorced shortly after my diagnosis or the same year of my diagnosis.

Scott Benner 27:30
Well, he's on a schedule. He can't you guys, he just had to keep moving. I guess. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Phoebe 27:39
But um, so my, my mom and I moved to Atlanta. And the reason I moved back in with my dad is apparently my daycare didn't handle my diabetes. Well, they would administer insulin, but they wouldn't draw it up. So every day during lunch, my mom had to sit three year old Phoebe on the phone, and had me count the lines that I could see. And eventually she, what that's arbitrary. So weird, right? Yeah. So, you know, and she's a nurse, so it's not, and she was a nurse, and now a single mother. So it's not like she could just,

Unknown Speaker 28:26
you know,

Phoebe 28:27
be at home with me to take care of me. So she was just like, I guess she called my dad was like, Oh, and I, it This isn't working. She needs to come be with you or there's more resources and because, you know, my dad was a essentially like a big fish in a small pond kind of thing. And, you know, with him being orthopedic surgeon, he's operated on everyone's mom, Grandma, blah, blah, blah. And I had already had an established nanny at that up there. So I moved back in with my dad. And from what what I can remember, you know, there were definitely no other type ones. Um, and my dad was very adamant that I learned how to do everything I needed to do without the help of an adult. So by the time I could do long division, he was having to calculate my my dosages. You know, it was it was hard at first because I was on mph and regular right back in the day and that just sorry, I just remembered a funny story. So with mph and regular. We've talked we've talked about this before, we have to be on very specific eating schedule. And I was the pickiest eater, in the whole world, like the juice on my food could not touch on the plate. If it did, I wouldn't need it. Okay. And I had learned That if I just hold out long enough, Dad will panic and feed me whatever I want. So, one day it backfired. And it was time to get ready for school. And he poured me some cereal. And I took a bite and I was like, Daddy, I don't like this. And he just he was like, dammit, Phoebe, I am not doing it this morning, you are going to eat your cereal and you are going to go to school. So I eat the cereal. I'm crying. I'm like, Daddy, it tastes bad. And turns out, go to school. Everything's fine. Come home. Dad's like, Alright, we need to go to the store. We need to get some milk. I was like, we have a full thing of milk. And he's like, oh, sweetheart, I'm so sorry. It was spoiled.

Unknown Speaker 30:52
Sure, your story

Unknown Speaker 30:54
decided he couldn't put up with your bullshit anymore. Because the data was bad. And he made you eat it. That is exactly what happened. That's great. That's exactly what happened.

Phoebe 31:08
Yeah, so and and think of, you know, I think I was like five or six at that time, too. And I was stubborn and petty enough to just plow through it anyways. So

Unknown Speaker 31:21
yeah, um, well, you won.

Scott Benner 31:24
You ate that milk. You ate that

Unknown Speaker 31:26
I ate, I ate it. I didn't drink the milk. And he was like, that's fine. But I ate it. Just get out of my house, go to school. Go to school.

Scott Benner 31:34
I got ladies coming over. You got to get up.

Phoebe 31:40
And then and so. But yeah, he was very adamant that I knew. Because with him being a doctor, um, you know, I couldn't call him to ask, Hey, what should I do for this? Um, so he made sure I knew what to do. Of course, when he was he was there. He would double check things. And sorry, second kept coming in.

Scott Benner 32:04
There's another cat. And this one's Meow. Meow, sir. Yeah. Which you guys can see. That is a pretty cat. Of course. Well, so you his schedule didn't really allow for you to be in contact with him. And so how did

Phoebe 32:20
how did and also texting wasn't a thing. So it was all phone calls and beepers. It was just Yeah, um, you know, so back in the day like, and I was a latchkey kid, you know, I would come home from like kindergarten and let myself in the house. And, you know, I knew how to make scrambled eggs from a young age. I knew how to make a sandwich. Like, I knew how to cook for myself, all from a very young age. Because if anything happened, I like it's it's me. It's not.

Scott Benner 32:51
I really am finding myself wondering if people even understand like, younger people would even understand the concept of that. Like if I tried to explain to my son that used to come home in kindergarten, bust out your key let yourself in the house and start making some eggs. No one called the police.

Phoebe 33:08
If we did that now like CPS would be all over us. back then. It was totally normal, right?

Scott Benner 33:13
Yeah, I am. I raised my brother's pretty much break it out. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think that is as common anymore. I'm sure it still happens. But it's just probably not nearly as common.

Unknown Speaker 33:27
But good. All

Phoebe 33:29
I know is being so independent. Growing up, I did go to diabetes camp once I didn't like it because I felt like no higher all of I don't like being around other diabetics. Why are you trying to tell me to do with, with my diabetes, you don't know anything go away. I grew up to be so hyper independent, that I have a hard time sharing When I need help, because it's my thing. You know, that's been pretty much the only cause of like a disagreement between Andrew and I to it's just like, he's like, you need to tell me when you are low. And I'm like, Yeah, but usually I've already taken care of it. And like one time I literally sat in front of him with a my checker to gatorades and I thought that was enough. And then I finally came back up and I was like, that was a bad one. He was like, Why didn't you tell me I was like, cuz i was i already handled it. It's fine.

Scott Benner 34:27
So this is interesting. Seriously, because the people I told you about earlier I recorded with yesterday. I am going to be certain that whenever one of them comes out that yours comes out, they come out together because these people are younger married couple. And she the non diabetic is incredibly involved in his type one. And it was seamless the way they talked about it. Then you're allowed to get away from it. Five to die, I'll die, but you're not helping me. Yes,

Phoebe 35:04
I have gotten better. So I have a Dexcom. And the hardest thing for me to do was to let Andrew Follow me, which he does now. And he, gosh, I was working out the other day and I started to dip. And he has a song that apparently, he was driving the other day and he was listening, listening to low buy the Foo Fighters. And he's like, the song is you. I was like, What are you talking about? He goes, Well, it's called low. And the opening lyrics are, um, hey, you are you in they're stuck outside you. And he's like, when you're when you're low enough, you just go somewhere else, and no one can reach you. So he pushed that song onto the Alexa and I had to yell downstairs like, I'm fine. Leave me alone.

Scott Benner 35:56
So he's just now because you won't allow him to be involved with your diabetes care. He's now just playing taunting music at you while you're low.

Phoebe 36:04
I occasionally let him in I I've told him, you know, maybe we should practice having you put a like insulin pump site on me and stuff like that. And he knows the basics. He knows how to use my pump. He knows what a low blood sugar is, what a high blood sugar is and how to correct for each. But I'm just so this is my thing. It's not your thing. It's mine. Right?

Scott Benner 36:35
Well, okay, so besides the fact and I'm not a psychologist, obviously, I'm just a podcaster. But besides the fact that your father instilled in you that you need to take care of this by yourself at an age that is so young that I don't imagine you could escape the message. So besides that, though, what would the problem be? Like forget your like, any neuroses feelings you have about it? Like what would the issue be with him helping it there's really no issue. Another thing was, you know, um, so

Phoebe 37:11
another thing is like, my dad was so stoic and very serious. My mom was quite emotional. And anytime that I had a bad blood sugar, I would hear, you're gonna lose your feet, you're gonna go on dialysis. You can't let your blood sugar be 250. What are you

Scott Benner 37:27
doing? So just come on. Phoebe, I'm starting to think you might have lost the parent lottery a little bit. I'm sure they're lovely and everything. But I'm not saying that. I'm just

Phoebe 37:42
parents, when it when it came to when it came to diabetes. Like if I needed help, I'm sure I could have gone to them. But you know, and with them being divorced, I don't. I had my mom and I had my dad. So when it was like, Who do I go to? It was whoever I was living with. And my mom would panic at other numbers. And which is funny because she's a nurse. Like, she should not panic. And whenever we got like a bad a one C was, well, what are you doing? not wrong? Not? Hey, what can we fix together?

Unknown Speaker 38:17
Can I ask? So that just led you go?

Scott Benner 38:19
I want to ask you questions. So this just happened recently, like I just made an episode that's actually going to go up in a couple of hours. And it started from a Facebook question that someone asked, I don't know if you're inside the private Facebook group. But so inside the Thank you. Inside the private Facebook group, someone, a parent of a child said, Hey, I know there are a lot of adults in here. What you know, what would you what, what kind of advice would you give? Like, what did you learn from growing up with diabetes, right? And all kinds of different interesting directions. But one of the things that stuck out just now while you're talking to me, was that this adult believed that when their parents were harsh or angry, or you know, you have to do this, that it was really just fear coming out as anger, that they were just afraid for you and no,

Phoebe 39:12
no, absolutely. Right. Um, and, you know, it really is it was really was just fear, like, you know, I'm, I'm my mom's only child. And she like, if anything happens to me, she would just crumble, right? So she wants me to be healthy. She wants me to pop out like a million kids. And when I was younger, anytime that my blood sugar's were out of whack. Which, you know, back in the day, whack whack was, you know, below an eight, right? Okay, that was like the general consensus of the 90s and stuff.

Scott Benner 39:53
See that again? The below an eight a one c? Yeah. So if you were below in eight things were up Lie down. Oh,

Phoebe 40:00
great. Oh, that was no I was below in eight things were great. Okay, um, because back in the back in the day they preach the better high than low, right? Don't want her to go low. And now we're learning Well, we don't want them to go high either.

Scott Benner 40:17
So why just one. Why do we always pick one? Why is it always this or that in life? I'm stuck. Yeah, lately, no one can just see the nuance. It's always just this or that. It gets no, there's never. There's never a mix. I don't know. I know. And, you know, I've

Phoebe 40:35
started ever since listening to your podcast, I have gotten more aggressive with my insulin, and I'm at a 5.2 now, which was a huge success for me. I've been in like the low sixes for the past couple of years. But then I was like, Huh, Pre-Bolus in huh? All right, let's give that a whirl.

Unknown Speaker 40:56
Wanna see by a whole point? Yeah. That's cool.

Scott Benner 40:59
What about your spikes? How have they changed since you Pre-Bolus? What are they nor What did they once were

Phoebe 41:04
like now is like 160. Like, yeah, and I have my glucose or I have my Dexcom alarm set to like, 120 I wish I could set it lower because I but for some reason, it doesn't let me alert lower than 120. But whatever. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know if it's the app or what have you.

Unknown Speaker 41:28
But I'll have to fiddle and

Scott Benner 41:30
figure that out. Neither here nor there. I am proud of you. I don't, I don't know you and you don't need my adulation. But it's nice to have regardless. That's very, that's lovely. I mean, how long did it take you to take a full point out of your Awan say? No, three months? Yeah, that's what I think too. I don't think it takes long at all. And I agree with you. 160 is the number where I start thinking, I messed this up. Like, you don't

Phoebe 41:58
feel good anymore at 160 I don't I get a little bit queasy. Um, and, you know, I'm, I'm 13 my husband and I have been talking about the baby thing. My my two good friends in California. They're both pregnant now. So apparently it's contagious. Yeah. And I was like, Alright, well, pregnancy is going to be a number. And he's like, well, you don't know that I'm like, I do. It's gonna, it's if even if it's an easy pregnancy, the diabetes part is gonna suck. And then if it's not an easy pregnancy, pregnancy is going to suck and diabetes is gonna suck. So we have an agreement that I'll be pregnant one, like, we'll get through a healthy pregnancy once and then I don't have to do it again.

Scott Benner 42:47
I don't do it. Your your verbiage is terrific there. If I was you, I would just trade those two cats in for a larger animal. And we're thinking about getting a puppy or something with a more human face. And I think you're finished Really? So are you Scott, I want to know about this. Are you scared to be pregnant?

Phoebe 43:05
A little bit? Yeah, it freaks me out one because you know, you have this thing growing in you and it like, that's just kind of odd, you know, in the first place. And then, you know, my diabetes is affected by every single decision that I make throughout the day, whether it's doing something or not doing something. And if I, if I mess it up, you know, it could hurt the baby. And people will try to be like, well, it's never your fault. Just manage your diabetes. I'm like, You're telling me two conflicting things. You're telling me to manage my diabetes. But if I don't manage my diabetes, and something happens, then it's not my fault. It's like you got to pick one or the other.

Scott Benner 43:46
There's a difference between the kind of comfort we give each other so that we all don't lose our minds. And what's real? Yeah, right. Yeah.

Phoebe 43:57
So you know, like, I would know that if something had happened, because I'd let my blood sugar's run high for a little bit. And I also know that it's not like one high blood sugar. It's consistent high blood sugars. So I'm basically right now I'm trying to practice pregnancy blood sugar's without being pregnant. I think I've gotten the hang of it a little bit.

Scott Benner 44:21
I think that's a great idea. Honestly. I have the time. We're not looking to do it anytime soon. So did the pro tip on pregnancy help you at all? Oh, yeah. That was actually the first one. The first few episodes that I listened to. Okay. Yeah. So and I was like, Huh, alright, so it's doable. It sounds terrible, but it sounds do hope. So your concern really is if I'm, if I can dig into this a little bit, your concern is that you think you can do it. Now you've proved that you can do it. Now. You're worried that you just arbitrarily won't do it or that something will happen so wonky But you can't Is that right?

Phoebe 45:02
Yeah, I'm scared that just because I can handle it without being pregnant and the added hormones and Gosh, I like I was talking to a doctor and they're like, we want you to eat a bajillion carbs a day. And I was like, Huh, I don't know. You know, like, they want you to eat, like 50 carbs at every meal and have breakfast lunch, dinner. Oh, and don't forget your 20 carbs of snacks. And I'm just like, so you want me to be in the two hundreds all the time, you're gonna ask, what's gonna happen, it's gonna be

Scott Benner 45:31
a lot more insulin is what it's gonna be. Yeah, gosh, I know, it's gonna be a lot more

Phoebe 45:35
to get my head around, like, all of my basil, right? So are between point eight and point nine. And the fact that it would have to go up to like, three is just like, it's, I know, it's the insulin that I'll need. And it's not going to cause me to tank because my body needs it. But it's still it's still a bit of a mind warp.

Scott Benner 45:57
Yeah, it's hard to wrap your head around. And it really is, I really want to I actually want to have somebody on to talk more about that. And I don't even know how to like, blend it into an episode or not. But it really makes all the sense in the world. And at the same time, from an outsider's perspective, oh, it's meaningless. To me, like, from my perspective, what I what is it? What does it matter? If it's point eight, or 1.8? Like, what?

Phoebe 46:27
I don't know. It's such a weird thing. And I can tell to like, Alright, if I don't exercise like my blood sugar's do start to creep up a little bit. So I make sure like I exercise every day. I just don't. I don't know. Maybe it's a pride thing

Scott Benner 46:42
about having that's that's the thing. I can't figure out because I do think, why is it so prideful to be like, I don't I don't use much insulin get me. Yeah, I. That's because you see it a lot with adults especially. And it's a big impediment for people making improvements. I even see this, like, Listen, somebody will come to me. You know, in my private life, they've got they've got blood sugars that are pretty consistently in the 250s. Yeah, with their kid, I can use a reason. They're just like, they need more insulin. Well, I'm like, this isn't hard to figure out. They treat by the time it's over. Like you're a genius. I'm like, Am I you know, like so but but the kids say the kids basil is point three. Right? Right. And I say I think the bass one needs to be more like point six. Well, they're like, Oh, my God, no, that's double. And I'm like, Yeah, what? Clearly, and your body needs it. So to dig into the psychology behind it, at some point that kids basil was point one, five, right? And point three is already doubled. And they can't imagine that one day that kid's gonna weigh 110 pounds, and his Basal is going to be 1.2 an hour, you know, he's or he's gonna be going through puberty. And that's just gonna, yeah. Which is then leads to why when ladies get their periods, they can't. They can't make that leap with their baselines on some helping Arden's friend the other day, I swear to you, if the FBI ever looks at my text messages, I think I'm at least gonna get investigated. Because I'm texting a 16 year old girl, you have to be sure and let me know when your period starts, which I'm assuming does not look good from the outside. Right. So So yeah, Shark Week just throws everything off. So this little girl's Basal doubles. For for her cycle goes from like, 1.2 an hour to like two in Basal. And if it doesn't her blood sugar's go right up in the 270s. They won't come down again. Wow. Just like that. Yeah,

Phoebe 48:42
for, for me. Shark Week causes not so much basil in sensitivity, but it seems like when I dose it takes longer for my insulin to start acting. So I have to Pre-Bolus even earlier, not necessarily a higher amount.

Unknown Speaker 49:01
But

Phoebe 49:02
and then of course, you know, it takes longer to start working, but then I feel like it's more sensitive. So if I don't time it right, I'll I'll spike and then I'll just tank.

Scott Benner 49:14
And I think I remember Samantha talking about that in her pregnancy like series about the Pre-Bolus being much. Right. Was that helpful to her? Did you hear her stuff?

Phoebe 49:24
Oh, yeah. No, it was it was great. I looked up every single pregnancy episode and listen to it. And it definitely calmed me down a bit. And then we also made an appointment with a maternal fetal metal medicine doctor, and he was like, yeah, you can start right now if you want. I was like, no.

Scott Benner 49:42
So the other piece of this has to be to is you have a I'm assuming a taxing job.

Phoebe 49:51
Um, it's not too bad. I have a I'm a safety engineer. So my role is a lot of document. patien and also just making sure that when someone does introduce like a new process and your chemical we go through the Okay, well, what if there's a reaction we didn't expect for what if we overpressure the system, what could go wrong and who can get hurt, things like that. And

Scott Benner 50:23
it's a desk job. Like you're

Unknown Speaker 50:26
part part desk part being involved with, like a research project.

Scott Benner 50:34
See, in my mind, this was like an 80s movie, and you had a white plastic helmet on a long white coat, you're holding a clipboard with safety goggles on walking around somewhere, checking things out. So I know I do that. Okay.

Phoebe 50:48
It's, it's a little bit of everything. Um, you know, I find it to be pretty entertaining. And it's, it's especially different with so you know, I'm in more research based role right now. And before I was in manufacturing, and manufacturing, so much more high paced than a research and development kind of thing. And, you know, the chemicals I used to work with in manufacturing were just nasty, nasty, nasty. Like, you cover the size of your palm with one of these chemicals, and it could cause heart arrhythmia, and you could die kind of nasty. Now,

Scott Benner 51:32
I'm in my mid 80s movie, Michael Keaton was in the helmet for some reason. Now let's try to figure out through my memory why that is? Hold on. Yeah. I'm gonna guess. It's a film called gung ho, where they were making cars. And I remember Michael Keaton, in garb slightly, like I've described, gung ho is not a good movie. Please don't watch it. But it was huge. Right in 1986. And now I'm going to find a picture of him. and with any luck, he's going to have a helmet on and be walking through a factory. George went was in this film. Do you remember George went from cheers by any chance? It brings a bell does it? My memory. I can't believe this is what passed for a movie when I was a child. And a teen. My kids are watching like Infinity War. And, you know, I'm watching Michael, one of my

Phoebe 52:32
one of my friends favorite movies and not sarcastically favorite, but like, her actual favorite movie was Big Trouble in Little China.

Scott Benner 52:42
Okay, it's acceptable. I'm just saying, when I was growing up, this is why you like Raiders of the Lost Ark. And Star Wars was so huge, because everything else was just it's like a it's like an independent. like four guys talking on screen. And sometimes a white lady would wander in and do a little, you know, expository dialogue and then leave again. She's writing this time for dinner. Things have grown since then. Anyway, well, gosh, I

Phoebe 53:14
forget why we were on this topic. But I don't know. We're talking. And I was like, we could never make a movie like Blazing Saddles. Oh, today. Yeah, we're not seeing the script would be burned.

Scott Benner 53:29
Like, we've insulted everyone who's alive. We can't do that. Can't do that. It'll come back around, by the way. I think so. Obviously, the the woke thing will fall asleep. Yeah. And, and, and everybody will be like, Oh, that's funny. Okay. Oh, this is funny again. Yeah. It's okay to be funny. Nobody means that, you know, no one's saying you should do that. That's exactly, definitely could happen. Might not I might be you know, I might be old enough to be one of your step brothers at that point. But by the time it comes around,

Unknown Speaker 54:05
but that Yeah,

Scott Benner 54:06
so I'm remiss here if I don't ask as we're talking about because we were talking about your kind of job because I was wondering if the work you did would interfere with being pregnant at all seems like you'll be okay. Yeah. Is there any? And this is not why you came on. So I feel bad asking this but I feel like this led us to Is there any like voice in the back of your head that's like, oh, if I have a baby, I'm gonna get divorced. No, no, you don't like have like that. Like, like, Andrew is far too good to let go ever. Okay. So usually the problem if your

Phoebe 54:42
issue is the diabetes, gotcha. It's just freaky to me. I just didn't know and do you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, no, no, no. And Andrews just, he is, like, one of the best men that I not like he's one of the best people I've ever met. And, you know, he's, he's, he's caring. He's smart. He's funny. And he's the kind of funny that it's like it's not obvious right away. But as you as he like, warms up to you, he starts cracking out these one liners. And then you realize like, Oh my God, this kid's hilarious.

Scott Benner 55:24
Phoebe Do you guys like tell math jokes each other while you're having sex just be true. History actually chemistry, okay, I wasn't sure

Phoebe 55:36
I prefer, you know there's a mass pickup line and it's like, Hey girl, can I be your derivative so I can lay tangent to your curves. And my response to that is, I'd rather you be my integral. So you can take up the space beneath me.

Scott Benner 55:57
Everyone, that's how smart people hear humor. Just say you're not smart people get pregnant. That's how they get pregnant, they make a blueprint first. And then they get together and meet a number of different times over zoom to make sure that it's gonna work out. And they plan a day off into the future. And then they also have an extra day in case that day doesn't work. That's it, I By the way, thank God, people can think like you were I'd be washing my hair with, you know, welfare, I just

Phoebe 56:26
make sure no one, I just make sure no one gets hurt. And if they do get hurt, I figure out how that happened and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Scott Benner 56:33
That's a pretty cool job. It's fun. I enjoy it. I would see it's interesting, I would think you would my wife has a job that if she sat and described it to people, most people I think would be like,

Phoebe 56:44
Oh, god, that's our jobs are very similar in that we're both dealing with federal and state regulations. And we have to make sure that those regulations are applied and followed. And if something goes wrong, we have to fix it, essentially. So because I think you mentioned once she works for like the FDA or something she she

Scott Benner 57:07
works in drug safety. So not not the government side. But so she she very much makes sure that what's happening on the company side is safe for the people who are eventually going to end up with whatever it is they're working on. Git, right? It's very detail oriented. And there's a ton of laws and rules, and you kind of need to know them. It's not like, you know what I mean? Like, it's Yeah, it's like a stop sign. You can't see, you have to know what's there and stop, but no one's gonna tell you it's not there. And if you don't stop, they are going to come along and give you a ticket. It's a very interesting knowledge. Yes.

Phoebe 57:46
Yeah. And I my knowledge bank is, oh, we need to increase the exhaust velocity, because there was an incident that happened in Italy, or Colorado where people were painting and it caught on fire and five people died. So that's what my knowledge bank is, is all of the chemical industries, major accidents for not following safety regulations. And

Scott Benner 58:14
you don't have to just know your company, you have to know what's happening everywhere, because it might have happened to another company and it would apply to you at some point. Yeah, yes. Interesting. No, and it takes, listen, I'm not gonna lie to you. Like, I watched my wife work sometimes. Especially now. She's been she's been you know, she took her over our dining room for like, the last seven months. Yeah. There are not a lot of people who could do what she's doing. And she's exceedingly good at it. It's it's really, like fascinating. I her brain must be firing a million miles an hour. Yeah, if you put me in that job. I would just, I beg I don't know. What do you guys think? Nobody said anything. I must be okay. No. All right. Fine, then move on. Then fine. People are dead. The painting booth somewhere like that. Yeah. So well, it. It's it'll be fun. So cool. So what do you do now? Like, how do you manage what's your gear? So I have a Dexcom. And a tandem insulin pump are using the control IQ.

Phoebe 59:20
Yeah, that's not aggressive enough for me. It sets your target at 110. And if you get to 90, it cuts back on your basil. And I'm like, but I want to be at 90 don't don't cut back on my Basal.

Scott Benner 59:32
So I just got where I'm going. And now you're making me leave.

Phoebe 59:36
Yeah, so I found that it just, it was, too. What's the word I'm looking for? It was too non aggressive. You know, it wants you. I mean, for I'm sure for people who are like bouncing all over from 400 to 40. Every day, multiple times a day, I'm sure it's like a godsend. Yeah, but I wasn't at that. Point and now I'm trying to be like, hey, if I could hang out at 85 all day, I call that a plus, that'd be alright. And for me, I my ish. Like, I'm not scared of lows. I, like I know a lot of diabetics are just absolutely terrified of low blood sugars, right? I don't know if because when I was a kid, I had a number of seizures. I had a seizure when I was by myself living in Kentucky, got myself out of that. But those lows Don't scare me, maybe because I've seen the worst. High is on the other hand, like, I don't like highs and lows are easier to fix. You chug your Gatorade, and in about 10 minutes, you're coming back up. Whereas with a high, it's half an hour before the evil, the insulin even starts working. And then, you know, another hour before it peaks. And then finally, like two hours later, you're coming down so well, I just think a low is so much easier to fix.

Scott Benner 1:01:07
It's so funny. I had a question that I knocked out of my own head by laughing I was gonna say something like, I built you up to be smart. And then you said that non aggressive or aggressive and I was like, No, you let me down there. But But now I'm just wondering if you found yourself on the floor in Kentucky thinking I am not dying and Kentucky by myself.

Phoebe 1:01:28
I thought that what happened was I woke up one morning, I'm like, Oh, I don't feel good. And I stood up and I had an open container of glucose tabs on my desk. And as I was falling to the ground, I managed to knock the glucose tabs off of the nightstand. And they were about six inches from my face. And I started convulsing. I was completely conscious the whole time, which was bizarre. Um, and I just was like, EFF this I not dying in Paducah. And I managed to like, like, you know, in the Princess Bride, when after he eats the miracle pill, he like flings his arm Yes, like move around. I basically did that. And I got a hold of like three glucose tabs and shoved him in my mouth. And then, uh, and then I regained motor function, and I shoved like 10 more in my mouth. And then I called Andrew and he's like, why are you on the i facetimed? Him? He's like, why are you on the floor? I was like, I think had a seizure. But I'm not sure. But I don't feel good. He was like, Okay, I'm like, What are you doing? He's like, I'm getting the number for the paramedics just in case I lose you. I was like already.

Scott Benner 1:02:50
And I'm busy telling Alexa to play low. But we didn't have one. That was that was before. Before Alexa, I'm just impressed that an engineer had enough hand eye coordination to knock something on the floor as they were falling. What do you think of that? Well, I play soccer. Oh, really? They don't like my hands and soccer though. I was a goalie. Oh, well, kid you you have an answer for every one of my questions.

Phoebe 1:03:15
Yes. I was also concussed one. So maybe that's why I'm not good with words. of soccer ball hit you in the head a little too hard. No, someone kicked me in the head. Oh, that's worse. For weeks, I was like, when are we gonna make up this game that we missed? And my teammates were like, thieves. You missed. Miss. We didn't miss that game.

Scott Benner 1:03:36
I was like, y'all played it. You sat on the side and said weird stuff for like an hour and a half. Hopefully you went back in I was probably not a good idea to really try to play again. My coach put me back in Yeah, that's not I saw my my son's catcher one time, took a foul ball. It came right through and hit him in the helmet. He caught a little longer before he came out of the game. And it was a doubleheader. And I spoke to him hours later, after all the games are over. And he's like, I only really remember like the last half hour what's going on right now. Like, he was gone. He played afterwards for little I doesn't remember playing like no,

Phoebe 1:04:13
no, I don't remember anything from that day. And then later, I was getting headaches. And my mom took me to a doctor. And she's like, you know, have you had any injuries in the past few months. I was like, Well, I was kicked in the head. And my mom looked at me because she didn't go to my soccer games because she would panic anytime someone came near me with the ball. So I eventually told her I was like, you gotta just not

Scott Benner 1:04:38
come. I thought she didn't come because it was soccer.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:41
No, no, she she would she would yell like, oh, watch out. Oh, sweetheart. And that would be like, Mom,

Scott Benner 1:04:47
stop. Everyone should know.

Phoebe 1:04:49
And I was like, you don't have to come. Yeah. And then. And then she was like, wait, you didn't tell me this. I was like, Oh yeah, I probably forgot.

Scott Benner 1:04:59
I I want you and everyone listening to know that at this point in the life of the podcast, I only tease about soccer because of one person listening. So I'm sure if you're listening still, one former collegiate soccer player who wants emailed me and said, Please stop making fun of soccer. I'm literally just doing it with you. Just so you know. Excellent. It just makes me happy to tease and think that there's one person out there. That's like, Why won't he stop making fun of soccer? It's a nice sport.

Phoebe 1:05:37
A I don't like like one of the few sports that women can play where you can still hit each other and it's fine. What about roller drives? I thought about joining a roller derby team when I was in Kentucky, because there's nothing else to do. And I thought that would be fun. I gotta

Scott Benner 1:05:52
be honest, if anyone's listening who does roller derby? Right? I would like you to be on the show.

Phoebe 1:05:58
One of the things. I did jujitsu for a little bit, but then I went back on a pump and a CGM. I was like, this is gonna get ripped off. And they're too expensive. Just so.

Scott Benner 1:06:09
So yeah. So throughout your life, and we're gonna wrap up because we're up on time but but throughout your life, doing regular and mph as a kid and everything you have any recollection from what you're a one sees whereby you just think, were they actually under eight? Or was that just the goal?

Phoebe 1:06:25
under eight was the goal, I would probably I was probably floating around eight for most of my childhood, okay. And then college happen, then I wish I had a Dexcom in college because I hate checking my blood sugar. I loathe it. Some I like I get that's for some people. It's automatic. And it's no big deal. But for me, I was lucky if I was testing three times a day, right? Because I just hated it. And I hated seeing the high numbers. And it would be like, I would have a beer. And then dinner time would come around. And I knew I was going to be high because beer has carbs. So I'm just not going to check. And I'm just going to dose. And obviously with the Dexcom that kind of takes care of everything because I can just look at my phone real quick. But yeah, it was, I was happy to be in the eights. I I never got into the double digits. But that was probably mostly luck. And now that I have the data and the technology, you know, I can still have like, the snacks and if I if I forget to look at my pump after eating a few crackers, I can be like, just give that insulin real quick. All right, I'm at Oh, maybe I'm okay. Yeah, um, I'm back in the day. I just loved checking my blood sugar. And that's probably why I was running higher. We have been

Scott Benner 1:07:54
a lot. So I got my wife is irritating me. Maybe it's just because we're early in our marriage. But Andrew doesn't irritate me. She's texting me She needs to know something, right? Which is fine. And, and so she sent me a text, which I ignored. Because I'm doing something. We're doing stuff. And now I'm getting, you know, multiple text messages. So she's setting up a new laptop for work, her laptop just died. They sent her another one, she's got to get it set up, right. So I get a picture of a screen that's asking for our Wi Fi password. Which by the way, is the same, you know, I already have to bleep earlier. So I now they'll be asleep during reading. It's the same Wi Fi password that we've had for 25 years. And then I get new laptop. So now it's for the picture. My phone buzzes under my leg, and then it buzzes again, because I don't answer the picture. Then she sends new laptop that buzzes then it buzzes a second time, then it comes in Hello. Then I say I'm recording. And then I send our Wi Fi password through tax which now I'm assuming the NSA has, and it's not going to be long now before bill Barr is using my Wi Fi. Right and and so and then she goes Oh, nevermind. I got it.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:18
Been kidding me.

Phoebe 1:09:20
I was so I've been trying really hard not to swear because I have a mouth like a sailor grew up for a bit in Boston and you know, in the Philly area. So for me. I'm going to have the kid that teaches all the other kids the swear words. I just know it. Like watch my child's first word be like, or something like that. Um, and I was I was joking in my head before coming on. I was like, oh, we're gonna have to make this an after dark because Phoebe has a sailor's mouth. But so you did well, I cursed. Not you know, I was like, oh, once he curses. I'll be good.

Scott Benner 1:09:58
The biggest problem with cursing is that When I'm editing, I have to stop and bleep and all that it just takes more time. Although, I mean, if you're gonna text me seven times about the Wi Fi password that you got them, Well, no, I'm gonna have to be. Alright, so hold on one second. So you were saying, but if anybody can follow this, they have aged ADHD, that's for sure. Seriously, but you were you were you were talking about your management when you were younger. And once these were where they were, I was wondering, is there looking back regular an MPH? Was there any way to really affect it? Like, how could you have affected it? Back then, and he had a meter right. But you didn't use it very frequently, if at all probably wasn't super active. I mean,

Phoebe 1:10:39
when I when I was a young kid, it was better because I was more under my parents. Watch. But once I turned like 13, and I was pretty much on my own. My checking got a little more laps. But with Yeah, with regular and mph, really it was dose, eat at the right time dose again, eat at the right time. So there there really, there's not a lot of tweaking you can do with that system. It's meant to keep you alive. It's really not meant to

Scott Benner 1:11:10
manage down your stuff like that. Yeah. Now, how. So when you were speaking about college was interesting. You said something that kind of flared My, my, my head a little bit, you said that you would think oh, I drank beer, so my blood sugar's high. So I'll just give myself insulin, but would eventually lead to checking. So you had to check. But you were swapping checking to make a good decision for checking to save your life, when you could have just like reminded me of sleep? Do you ever give to somebody who can't sleep on a schedule, and you say they're always tired, and they're sleeping, and you say, look, if you just went to bed four hours earlier, you'd get up, you'd get up four hours earlier, your life would be on the process of the sun, the way your brains meant to be, and you'd feel better and etc. You it all makes this. It's not like you have to be at a job at one o'clock in the morning, you're just physically making the decision not to go to sleep, just slide the clock a different way and start over. And similarly, had you just moved the blood sugar check to where it would have been held for you. None of this all would happen, but and you're a bright person. So my question is, why does that not? I don't mean just for you. I think a lot of people struggle with this.

Phoebe 1:12:24
I think I just, I just it would be like, well, I've already messed up this blood sugar, might as well just lean into it and see if I can maybe fix it later. and hope for the best because it was very much a I don't want to know if I'm high. So I'm just gonna

Unknown Speaker 1:12:47
ignore it.

Scott Benner 1:12:48
But eventually you'll be high and then you'll have to know.

Phoebe 1:12:52
Yeah, I mean, eventually you'll you'll know just from the way you feel. And but of course, you know, as your blood sugar's stays elevated, you get a little more used to it being elevated. So, you know, you feel fine, but you're not fine.

Scott Benner 1:13:07
You know, you're perfectly describing dieting. Seriously, like, you know, you get up in the morning, you're like this morning, I'm gonna have two eggs and a half a piece of rye toast and a cup of coffee. And I'm gonna give myself because you're like, you take a bite, you're like, well, hell, if I'm gonna have a bite, I might as well have three waffles somehow that's the leap. You know?

Phoebe 1:13:27
It's very much that. I don't know, there's I think there's like there's some kind of folly or something that has it has an actual name, but I forget what it is. But it's very much of a well, I already messed up this one time, might as well just lead into it, trying

Scott Benner 1:13:43
to figure out what part of the brain lights up for that because it's the same thing, right, like so now that I've had the waffles when lunch comes, I'm not going to have, you know, a water crunch. Right. So now I'm like, I ate waffles this morning. As you know, we should probably get pizza. And then you know, you get pizza. And then you're like popping candy in the oven. And then you don't feel well. And you're like, Oh, I shouldn't eat like that. And then you know, I'm going to get better. Yeah. And then in the morning, you're like, oh, two eggs. I'm gonna poach him. I think this time, little rye toast, blah, blah, blah, kid comes running through the room with those little muffins that come in the package that you know, aren't food and you're like, Oh, those things are great. You're popping them in your mouth. And the next thing you know, you weigh 65 pounds more than you mean. Right. So so seriously, I think it's the same thing.

Phoebe 1:14:28
It's probably very similar. It's just, uh, it's, it really is a well I already messed this up instead of you know, just trying to deal with it and fix it and you know, as as a kid, like, No one likes to see that your blood sugar's high because especially I don't know if it's just from I feel like the the attitude has definitely shifted from when I was younger, but it was very much a that blood sugar is bad and it means you're not do Doing in means you're doing bad with your diabetes, and it was very much not a. Okay, this is the number. Let's fix it and move on. Okay, um, which I think is a much better approach. Yeah, you know not to assign good or bad to a number. It's just here's the data, use the data, and then move on with your life. Yeah. Which is what I'm starting to see, like more like in the chats and like the, you know, when someone says, like, oh, what's the best piece of advice? Everyone goes, don't assign a moral value to a number,

Scott Benner 1:15:38
right? Well, it's also interesting when you're because you're talking about social media. I also think that social media draws in people who are in a certain part of the process, too.

Phoebe 1:15:50
Yeah. So that has always been my issue with like, joining some of the diabetic groups, because you see, you know, you also and a lot of times, that's like the same thing with like Yelp. People don't. People rarely write good review, because I had a great time, they want to write a bad review. So everyone knows that they had a horrible time at your favorite restaurant? Yeah. You know, the people posting online, or there are a lot of times they're, they're in a bad, they're in a bad place, or they're not taking care of their diabetes, or they're just so new and confused. It's just a lot of negativity sometimes, and, but it's not even the people. It's their situation.

Scott Benner 1:16:31
Right. And so, that's why I mean, seriously,

Phoebe 1:16:36
and then, and then sometimes I feel like, it comes across as judgmental. But you know, you see, like people's graphs, and they're like, I was 100% in range. And I was like, Yeah, but your blood sugar still went to 200. But you're in range goes up to 250. Like, why is it so high? You should lower that sucker down.

Scott Benner 1:16:53
That's their first step. Their first step is I picked the range, I stayed in it, and then you hope that their next step is to

Phoebe 1:17:00
lower the range. Yeah. Right. And then I you know, and then you get the responses. Well, I don't want the Dexcom beeping at me. It's like, that's what it's for. That you because if you don't get high, you don't get high.

Scott Benner 1:17:18
I my carbon monoxide detector woke us up. Stop wants that paper, I should take the batteries out of the way the cat's dead. Like, you know, like, so. I wonder what that's about? All the birds dead? Why am I hallucinating? So how did you fix it? Well, we threw out the carbon monoxide detector. Now, I just it's interesting, because if you talk to me or other people have been around for a really, really long time. It just cycles, online cycles and cycles. And I will have conversations with people. And I'll see them pop up in different threads. And then one day, five, six months later, they're just gone. Like you'll see I'm talking about how good their blood sugar's are. And then they'll realize, like, I can go live my life again. Yeah. And that's amazing. But it's hard to remember that in the moment, because at some point, when you've heard your 9,000,000th person make the same complaint, it takes a special person to go Hey, that's okay. And start from scratch. And I am literally calling myself a special person in this situation, because I am the most special Well, at least close to the bestest and because I have the temperament to not feel like, oh, why do these people because I realized these people, quote unquote, are not the same people from yesterday. And right, you know, but a lot of sometimes that doesn't happen. You can see when people reach their social media tipping point, because they conflate everyone together into like one person.

Phoebe 1:18:47
But yeah, for me, it was just it was more negativity than I wanted to deal with. And, and I don't know if this was because how it was raised, but a lot of Oh, woe is me. This is the worst. Like, I'm not saying that diabetes doesn't suck because it does. If I had the option, I would totally go like, be on the experimental trial for a cure, right? Or if I was like, if I could go back or if like a genie would pop up and say like, what's your one wish? I'd be like, get rid of type one diabetes. You know, like, I would totally do that. But once you once you start using the data and figuring things out for yourself, it it it really is okay, I still have days where something throws me off or I get a little sick and like I'm floating in the 150s 160s all day so and then I don't feel so great. Or you know, I have Thai food and misjudged it and now I'm at 220 like it definitely happens. But it those are fewer and further between them when I was a kid.

Scott Benner 1:19:55
I think that's possible to yeah managed to get to. I really do.

Phoebe 1:19:59
Yeah. It's it's like, you know, like, yeah, I can't spontaneously just be like, I'm gonna go to this place for a week like, No, I have to pack insulin and I have to pack my pump supplies. But I mean, you have to pack underwear for a trip. It's the same thing.

Scott Benner 1:20:17
It's all in the way you see it and plus, those people didn't have your dad who was like, hey, look, you're gonna do this by yourself?

Phoebe 1:20:24
Yeah, I know, like it. Like, sometimes I read like how, like, sometimes I hear, like, how involved you are with art in and I'm like, I think it's great. But at the same time in the back of my head, like, if Scott was like, if he had to get surgery for a day, right? And he couldn't answer like,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:42
would she be okay? Like, she handle it? Yeah, she'd be fine.

Phoebe 1:20:46
I'm sure because I'm sure you're teaching her as like you're helping her. You know, with, hey, we should give this but you know, it's it's all of that a while she's gonna leave the house. Not too long. And she's gonna go to middle of nowhere Kentucky where there's not going to be a good Wi Fi signal. And

Scott Benner 1:21:09
Kentucky gets better Wi Fi in case my kid wants to go to college. Well, if you'd be you were really delightful. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was fun. It's a really good time. I liked when I said we're coming up on time. And you were like, really? Cool. That's good news. Because you weren't, you weren't sitting over there going.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:26
chatty, so you're chatty, you were very chatty. Which is perfect, by the way, which is great for a podcast. Really?

Scott Benner 1:21:34
Yeah. There's been a couple of people over the years who were just like, please say more words, please. I'm running out of the say you gotta say.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:43
There's a lot of dead space. Kai, when you start when I start running

Scott Benner 1:21:47
out of words, you're in trouble, because I can talk forever. Sure. Oh, cool. Well, seriously, thank you so much. First, I want to thank Phoebe because she was terrific. And then I want to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, because it's terrific. And you can find out more about how terrific it is at Contour Next one.com, forward slash juicebox. And to my longest standing sponsor on the pod, thank you, thank you, thank you. Find out if you're eligible for that free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash at Omni pod.com Ford slash juicebox. There are links to these and all of the sponsors at Juicebox Podcast comm are right there in the show notes of your podcast player, or you're not listening in a podcast player. You should be it's a really easy way and free way to listen. And of course, we'll just let the music drift off here. If you're looking for a way to support the show, it's simple. Share it with someone who you think might be interested. Subscribe in the app you're listening in, or follow like if you're in Spotify follow if you're an Apple Music, I think it's or if you're an apple podcast, I think that's follow now some of them are subscribed. Just subscribe or follow, subscribe or follow. tell somebody about the show. Leave a great review wherever you listen, these things would be incredibly helpful. And if you'd like to join up with other listeners and talk about diabetes, there's a Juicebox Podcast private Facebook page. It is there for you to use as you will I believe 12,000 users right now and growing every day Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, and of course supporting the T one day exchange by joining their registry and answering their quick survey also supports the show. And this ends the how to support the podcast that portion of the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.

#493 We Are Diabetes

Asha Brown is an adult type 1 and founder of We Are Diabetes.

We Are Diabetes is a non-profit organization devoted to providing much needed support, education, guidance and hope to individuals living with type 1 diabetes who struggle with disordered eating behaviors.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:11
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 493 of the Juicebox Podcast On today's episode, Asha Brown is here. Asha is a person who has been living with Type One Diabetes for quite some time. And she's also the creator of we are diabetes. We are diabetes is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing much needed support education, guidance and hope to individuals living with Type One Diabetes to struggle with disordered eating behaviors. Family members and loved ones of those who are struggling are also welcome and encouraged to reach out to the organization. We are diabetes.org. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

Before we get started, I'd like to remind you about the T one D exchange. The T one D exchange is looking for type one adults and type one caregivers who are us residents to participate in a quick survey that can be completed in just a few minutes from your phone or your computer. After you finish the questions. They only took me about seven minutes, you're done. This is 100% anonymous, completely HIPAA compliant. And you'll never have to go to a doctor or remote site. And yet, you'll still be helping people with type one diabetes. You can help with research for type one without going to a site or visiting a doctor. And this is how you can do it. T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. Go to the link. Click on join our registering now and then just complete the survey. It's that easy. Pass participants like you have helped to bring increased coverage for test trips, Medicare coverage for CGM, and changes in the ADA guidelines for pediatric a one c goals. And it's exciting to imagine what your participation will lead to while you're on the internet, doing good things, check out touched by type one touch by type one.org. also find them on Facebook and Instagram. Here's Asha.

Asha Brown 2:46
Hi, I'm Asha Brown, the founder and executive director of We Are Diabetes. I also live with Type One Diabetes among other autoimmune diseases.

Scott Benner 2:55
Okay, so I'm gonna say something that you won't take wrong, please. No, I, you are a person who I am aware of peripherally, but I don't think you and I have ever spoken directly. No, this is our first time right now. Right? And at the same time, I have. My wife asked me last night who's on the show who you're recording with tomorrow. I told her. And she said, How come you're having her on and I said, I get a really good vibe from her. Oh, and that's all I had. She's like, that's it. I'm like, Yeah, I get a really good vibe from her. And I said, and she's friendly with people who I also get a good vibe from.

Unknown Speaker 3:32
So

Asha Brown 3:32
you know, I think the good vibe concept and and however you want to, you know, phrase that is what builds very strong communities?

Scott Benner 3:43
I think so I also think that you're from Let me ask you like, when did you start being visible around diabetes? How did that all happen?

Asha Brown 3:51
So that's, that's an interesting question. Because at age five, when I was diagnosed, and then started my professional film career, what a year for my parents. I was actually doing advocacy work with my dad, who's also a type one. And we were featured on the front of Ada diabetes forecast, holiday magazines, blah, blah, blah. But you know, that was back in early 90s. Then I disappeared and had a, you know, an entire unraveling of self. When I came back to life and to the world of social media. And launched we are diabetes. We started in, you know, we began in January 2012. And I still feel like I'm new to technology. But I started connecting with the DRC specifically around that time and ever since then, just like you said, I I really love people. And I like to talk and that is how I've gotten to know everyone that I know.

Scott Benner 4:48
Now it's very cool. So by 2012 I think I'm at this about four or five years by 2012. And I'm just beginning to understand And that other people do what I do. Is that is that, right? Because that's how sort of disjointed the internet was at some point.

Asha Brown 5:08
Yeah, right. Yeah. And that was very everything was starting that I feel like

Scott Benner 5:13
Yeah. Now it just and and the the idea of a diabetes community, it's funny, I think, I don't want to I would never want to speak for anyone. But I think in the beginning, the idea was there were these eight or 10 people. And it was widely believed that they were the core of the diabetes community, right. And I, that they are in my head, right. And I have trouble not thinking of it that way, as well. Like, these are the people who kind of stepped out first. And because I did it, it's interesting. I didn't do it on WordPress. And because I didn't do it on WordPress, I had no SEO. So I was growing word of mouth. But I was not one of the people who anyone was, like, centrally aware of which I ended up believing was really good for, for it in general, because it got to grow at its own pace. But But as the years have gone on, I've come more to think of the community as the people at impacts not the people who are generating content for it. I love that. Okay, that's how I say,

Asha Brown 6:17
and no one has ever said that to me, Scott. But that is exactly how I think of it to simply because of the work I do. Because it is so centralized around my clients and the you know, reach out, you know, the people that come to me and reach out. So diabetes community, and more specifically my community it is it is exactly that it's the people that are part of it, not the people that are spearheading blogging it creating it,

Scott Benner 6:47
the way I think of it is I think it feeds from the out the perimeter to the back into the content creators, like if I make something and nobody cares about it, it'll be obvious to me because I have metrics, and I'll see that nobody cares. Yeah, then I'll just go away. Right? And, but there are people who turn and turn and turn stuff that doesn't get heat or reflected back, or doesn't vibe with people. And that's not the I don't think of that as community. I think I think of the feeling that there are people in the world who were putting out information that hopefully helps you. And if it finds you, and it's valuable for you, then that feeling is the community. I hope that makes sense.

Asha Brown 7:35
No, I love that. And I want to I want to let's piggyback on that. Let's take a piggyback ride. With that being said, what you were just saying about, you get a good feeling from me, that is also part of this, it's an essential part, because who cares how many people visit your website or your website or know about this or that, if it helps you, then it's part of the community. And this concept of inclusivity, although I feel like that word has, it's like the new kale, you know, for for many reasons, important reasons. You know, don't don't get mad at Asha for saying that. But it's but it there's this sense that it has to just, there's no you don't need to grip it, you know, it just it's a good feeling. And it helps you then it's part of it. There doesn't need to be more than that. And there's space for everybody who wants to be part of it. Right?

Scott Benner 8:27
And because it's virtual, I mean, so the word translates community translates. But it's not like, I'm at home and I live in this town and eight of us get together every Thursday and make a potluck dinner and sit down in the room. It does sound fun. Yeah, of course, we're never gonna probably do that again. But I I do understand that. But it's not it's not apples for apples exactly the same thing to me for me, right? It's a woman who said out loud. A Piedra works better for my son than novalogic. And I thought, I'll try that. It's for the first person who said to me, are you going to try a CGM? And I said, I don't know what that is. Yeah, you know, like, right, like, it builds and builds and builds. And then those people have to feed other people. Because no one I used to have this dream, where there'd be a centralized hub where everyone's writing would be. Oh, yeah. And I thought that was the only way to like really serve people and then when you stop and think about it, and then people are, you know, some people are selling ads, and they're making money and it's not gonna it's not gonna work, right. But you know, in a utopian world, that was gonna be the only way for everybody to see everything

Asha Brown 9:45
would be a lot easier and save more time Google searching. Yeah,

Scott Benner 9:47
certainly would and and so at one point, I was like, that's the idea. And I just was like, no, that's not gonna work. And then you know, so you keep going on and on. And now what I've come to believe is that it's it's all about value. So I think this podcast has its its listeners, because one of them hears it, finds it to be valuable and tell someone else about it. That's it, how it works. And if it doesn't work that way for you, then, you know, you keep doing what you're doing, if it makes you happy, but, you know,

Asha Brown 10:20
you know, this actually circles right around to what you first said, is that I know of you. And you have been on my periphery, you know, since I started, I mean, what you do, and just your name has been around for a long time. And I've always gotten a good feeling about you, even though this is the first time we're having, you know, communicate them. Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:42
I appreciate that. Well, listen, at the core of all this. I used to cry in the shower, because I thought I was killing my daughter. And then I figured out how not to do that. And I thought, well, that's something I should tell somebody else. And that's pretty much it. And look at how many people you've helped. That's, I mean, that's just beautiful. Did you come on here to say nice things to me? Because that's not necessary. It's one of my favorite things to do. Oh, please say nice things. To cut you off. I'm terrific. Keep talking. No, no. No, but seriously, it's um, it probably feels trite to hear but it's one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done as an adult, is to watch someone come through and say, hey, guess what? My variability decreased. My time and range increased, my agency went down, I feel better. Or I have one note that sticks in my head forever. Word for word. I used to think my daughter was a bitch. And then we got her blood sugar's lower and stable. And it turns out, she was just tormented by her blood sugar swings

Asha Brown 11:53
at swing suck, especially for girls, just women in general. So hormonal disruption? Oh my gosh,

Scott Benner 11:59
it's like having three. It's like, it's like managing three people's diabetes every 30 days. And yeah, I would agree with that. No One No One yells at you. We're switching to her now. It just happened? Wouldn't it be nice if there was a chart for that? light on your forehead? That would go for amber? bright red, bright red. Right. But no, it's just very, um, I always think back. I don't know that person. Obviously, they just sent a note. But I think what if her whole life with her daughter would have been spent thinking that they had some horrible personality conflict, and they just ended up growing apart because of that, like, that would be just heartbreaking. And why why what helped her no one had a Pre-Bolus understanding how insulin works, you know, II mean, like, that's education

Asha Brown 12:50
can go such a long way. And although it's, you know, it's a different concept. I know for me personally, when my blood sugar's got regulated, after I went to treatment, and something that I experienced with my clients now is, there's a lot of diagnosis, stuff flying around, you know, bipolar depression, and some of and I'm not making light of it. But it's often very difficult to get a firm diagnosis. For a mental state, when your blood sugars have been uncontrolled for a long period of time, you know, and it's pretty amazing how a lot of that softens, when the diabetes control is better.

Scott Benner 13:33
Yeah, well, they're not perfect, but better. There's too many variables. It's hard to know it. So on the podcast, there was a gentleman on a long time ago, he was a barrister from Canada. And he made this fancy Yeah, he's a lawyer in Canada, which I think means I think he just defends like Tim Hortons and stuff like that. But it's not it's um, but he, but he made the point one day that when you're talking to witnesses, he said it like this. He said, some people see a man put a pencil in his pocket and rob a bank and come to the conclusion that pencils caused bank robbery. And, like, right, I'm like, I'm getting what you're saying here. And now when you look, you see people all the time, say, you know, my finger hurts. My hands got to be hurt. Nobody ever thinks there's a something pinched in their shoulder, you know, II mean, or, you know, she's crazy, or she's out of control, or she's just she's a bitch. Like, that's what that woman said. Right? None of that's true. So why don't you tell us a little bit about like your story. You said you unraveled a little bit and came back together. What does that mean?

Asha Brown 14:35
Oh, man. No, it's interesting because I'm, I'm working on a new way to share my story right now. So I'll try to circle back to that in a minute. I yeah, I've lived with chronic illness. My whole life. I was diagnosed with type one and five hashimotos came pretty quickly after that, but it was extremely undramatic just because my dad So live with Type One Diabetes. So what I remember is that, leading up to the diagnosis, I was eating triple Decker peanut butter and banana sandwiches for my bedtime snack, before storytime and then peeing all night long. And so my dad was like, Oh, my God, well, here we go, right. And there you go, at life, you know, with type one as a child was, was still fine for me. And again, I also had this amazing theater and film career that started really quickly after that. And, you know, I've lived a lovely magical childhood. But I am a young woman, and a young woman being in the arts, in this society and culture, who not only has type one and thyroid disease, but was then diagnosed with pcls, which is polycystic ovarian syndrome in high school. Those are a lot of factors playing against you, and the literature and information available in the 90s. about all of these conditions, with crap, just total crap, there was no differentiation between someone living with type one and type two. And it was mostly scare tactic information that I was able to find. So by age 16, I was in a deep rebellion and very angry. I felt like my body was doing me that, you know, no matter what I did, I was going to be fat, not with no legs and probably blind. And, you know, I just, I was deeply angry. So I developed an eating disorder, and many other very terrible coping mechanisms for over a decade.

Scott Benner 16:49
Okay. Are you willing to share them? Or is that enough?

Asha Brown 16:52
Oh, you know, I was. I don't know if we have enough time to go that deep about that. How about that? goes along with what I said before, I think before we started, or maybe we were already recording, I don't know. I've lived many lives. I've lived many lives. And I've met a lot of people. And I've also I have pockets of time that unfortunately, I don't remember things just because of my choices of illegal substances at the time. Gotcha. How about that? How about that

Scott Benner 17:25
I have an episode just went up the other day, where young girl about 27 came on, and for two hours, shared what it was like to get hooked on oxy cotton, and go to heroin, and she's trying to kick it still. And she has type one. Absolutely, like, heartbreaking and fascinating. Really, you know, it was really something

Asha Brown 17:50
I enjoy. You know, it's funny, because I think that people that live with type, I don't know, some, some will agree with me on this is we, our bodies go through so much. And we get kind of used to these irregularities and a lot of strange feelings people don't ever experience on a daily basis, you know, even get alone in their lifetime. But we feel these rises and falls and all sorts of things, just things happening in our body. And I, for me, it gave me the sense of not superiority, but kind of like, you know, well, I can't, I'm going to try really hard not to swear it might be hard. But you know, a few desks and whatever. Like I started to feel invincible. And because my blood sugar's were deeply unmanaged know, my agency was above 15, for almost a decade, I felt nothing. So I started to feel this superior sense of, you know, I can't die. And at this point, I don't care. So that, you know, kind of spurned many poor choices within this timeframe that I'm tired. I

Scott Benner 18:50
understand. So are you saying that after a while of having an elevated blood sugar like that, that not only does everything sort of become physically disconnected, like they say, you can't feel your highs anymore, all that stuff, but you're listening to a doctor who tells you if you don't take really good care of this bad stuffs gonna happen, you know, I got up again today and nothing bad happened because it feels like nothing.

Asha Brown 19:11
Right? Exactly. Like and, you know, again, I also didn't feel pain, which Boy, oh, boy, I wish I had, because now I certainly do. You know, I mean, the complications I live with now, because of that part of my life. I just, you know, I, I, it's, I sober up to it, which I choose to use that word, I sober up to those consequences every day just because of, you know, what my body now has to deal with and what it cannot do anymore, just because of that very long time of uncontrolled blood sugars.

Scott Benner 19:45
How did you have a good attitude about that? Like, how do you not wallow in the look what I did instead of Let's Move forward?

Asha Brown 19:53
I, I wish I had a better answer than the one I'm going to give you because it's not going to help anybody. Okay. It's because I have the a guard genetics. It's from will agar my father, I don't know what's wrong with us. We're deeply plucky, we're deeply plucky, we're, it's half glassful, even if there's barely any water in that glass, I don't. And we have very hardy genetics, like he's been through a lot. My god, he's lived now with type one, much more than 50 years. He was diagnosed in 1970. He's, he's had a quintuple bypass surgery. He recently had two heart surgeries in September. You know, just if it happens. No, but he's, he's still working, thriving. He's, he lives this beautiful life of art. And he's a teacher and a father, a musician. He just, he wants to choose joy versus not. And that is, it's been ingrained in me. I was taught it, you know, before I even understood words.

Scott Benner 20:59
It's very, very interesting that you're talking about this right now. Because two hours ago, I was standing in my kitchen, my wife and I were talking about an acquaintance who seemed to be falling down rabbit holes. And I said, I wonder what the difference is between someone who sees something and says, Oh, this is horrible, and burrows down on the horrible. And someone who says, Oh, this isn't great. But here's perspective. Like we were talking specifically about being kind of locked in your house right now. And I said, um, I said, I try to step back and think, well, I am quarantined here, but my life is still better than most people's. And then I just reset my idea of what great is and keep moving. I don't know. And I don't understand why other people can't do that. I get that they can't. And I'm not saying I don't understand, like, Hey, you should just do it. Right. Like I frankly, can't, I can't comprehend it. And I know, it's just the difference in whatever you said. Right. Like the unknown part of who people are.

Asha Brown 22:01
I think that's like the I think it's the evasive component to why some people have treatment resistant depression, you know, I think it's the that like, I think, is the phrase jenis acquah. We don't know, scientists are still trying to figure it out. Everybody's Ted talking about it. We're never going to know, because it's the magic of life. It just is, you know,

Scott Benner 22:23
it doesn't for others. And that's that. Yeah, I saw I used this as an example. When I was talking my wife, I said, when I was very young in elementary school, I remember kids talking about, you know, all the things kids talk about. And the one thing that came up was, if you step on a crack in the sidewalk, you'll break your mother's back, right? Like, it's like this thing. So I remember one day walking to school on this long sidewalk. And I noticed, oh my gosh, I'm purposely not stepping on the cracks in the sidewalk. And my mind immediately said, That's crazy. Just step on the cracks in the sidewalk. So I see, every crack I could on the way to school. got home, mom was fine. That was the end of it. Yeah. That's what you learned your lesson. How does someone have that very first, like, seed of a thought around something obsessive like that, and then not be able to, like leave it go or walk away from it. It's terrible.

Asha Brown 23:19
You know, it's terrible. And that's a great, you know, that's, that's a question that I wish I had the answer to. And yet, it's kind of what gives me drive every day with the work I do. Now, because I've been there, I had my own inability to step on the cracks, so to speak, right? With my behaviors and the coping mechanisms I use to avoid my feelings and avoid growing up and being an adult. And I'm very, I'm making very light you know, of what I struggled with. And the people that I work with in my coaching and just people that reach out to weird diabetes. Everyone is at a place where they recognize I don't want to do this anymore, but but it's gotten so cyclical and so difficult, and and they can see it but they don't know how to pull themselves out. And it is, it is a different process for every single person.

Scott Benner 24:14
I think it's very common through many threads of being human to like seeing that you're trapped, knowing it's not what you want and not knowing the steps and by the way, I don't see that as being much different than being diagnosed with Type One Diabetes being told test your blood sugar counts your carbs, getting getting mired down in this to too vague plan, then starting to see the bigger impact pop, you know, packs and think I don't know how to do that only have these couple of tools. It's like somebody hands you like a hammer and a screwdriver. And it's like, okay, go make a space shuttle.

Asha Brown 24:48
Right, right. I know. Oh, that's a great metaphor. I don't think I can write that down. Oh my gosh.

Scott Benner 24:56
It really does feel like that's what diabetes is like, for most people who get That direction, and then it takes certain people to break free of it. And certain people can't. And then hopefully those that could This is how I see it at least those that could. Should I used to talk about like being on a dark path. Like I always tell people like I'm not better at diabetes than you are. I'm just farther ahead in the idea of in you are. So what's wrong with me shining a light back at you and going, Hey, I'm up here. You know, there's a hole there stick there. There's a lion, if you go this way, that way, this way, that way, you can come home be with me, you don't have to take the trip I took,

Asha Brown 25:34
you know, right, right. Another way to think about it. And what I'm hearing from you is, especially for newly diagnosed, you think there is just this one path. And apparently, if it's not working, then you're the failure, right? But what people don't know is there's so many paths to the same great outcome. And you can even make your own like, you can literally just carve your own way you can use a CGM, but not a pump. And, you know, this is I mean, it's like, there's so many different options. But it's almost like if someone isn't told you can do that you can choose this or not. They don't even think that's a possibility.

Scott Benner 26:11
I have to tell you that there are days where I think my whole job is just on the pad on the ass guy. I'm the guy going you can do it. Get out there. Right? Like, it'll be fine. Try another unit. See what happens. You know, like I love. I love that moment where somebody says, I don't understand my blood sugar's been 250 for three weeks, and I can't do anything about it. I'm like, now that isn't right. The statement, the statement that I can't do anything about it isn't right. Like you can give yourself your blood sugar will be lower. Right. Right. Right. You know, and you're afraid for probably very good reasons. Here are the steps I would take to get it to.

Asha Brown 26:46
Yeah, no, I can't say that. Yeah. Lower say, No. All I can do is redirect, redirect, encourage.

Scott Benner 26:53
Yeah. And I'm and listen, here's the great thing about the podcast, I'm obviously not a doctor, either, right? All I do is I kind of come on here. And I talk about how I do things for my daughter, how I see my daughter doing things people can take from it, what they will leave behind what they don't want. But we really do get caught in that. That sort of like gray area of there are people who know and won't say,

Asha Brown 27:17
Yeah, what is up with that? I kind of get it. But I here's the other mean. So along, as long as I'm continuing to be mindful about what I can say and not say and what you know, will lead to supportive and non illegal like, or not, like no legal battles in my future. What we do is also so important, because it is that much needed, like middle space. Right? You there needs to be people that talk about their personal experience, or their you know, what's working for their family. And isn't. Because if there was just endocrinologist, and CB appointments, then our whole community, you know, back to the community thing, we would be so lost. You know, it's my need these people talking about what works for them.

Scott Benner 28:16
My daughter's endocrinology appointments got us to a low eight, a one se and a lot of stress and anxiety. And I'm sure my little baby not feeling very. And so then I'm like, All right, let me try to figure this out for myself. I didn't realize until years later after writing the blog for a while. So I always have this sort of I have a I usually I'm sure this is politically incorrect. But I have like a little fat kids mentality. I don't think I'm good at anything specifically. You know, I always imagine if anyone can do something, if I can do something, it must mean everyone can do it. Like I don't have a ton.

Asha Brown 28:53
I actually totally understand that. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 28:55
get it. So at one point, I hear people kind of ranting and raving like you can't like they used to say like, you can't give people medical advice. They weren't talking to me. They're saying it out loud, right? You can't write advice. I'm like, but nobody's giving them the advice. So and then. And then the argument would be well, you Well, it's not safe. And I'm like, Alright, well, can't there be a way to tell this story safely? So that right so that you can't hurt yourself? Like, you know, by under understanding slowly, that's where the podcast came in, because writing it down was nice. But saying it works. So much better.

Asha Brown 29:31
Words there, you know, the spoken word as well. I mean, I'm an actor, so I could go on, but it's, you know, what you offer to people is so much more than reading it on a piece of in a book or a blog because it shows you are real. You're a real person going through this and they can hear a motion and variability in your voice and know that it's true.

Scott Benner 29:53
It's very important to be able to hear those so you can't misinterpret an idea to be spoken assist. is so much more important. So anyway, now at this point, I mean, by the time your episode comes out, the podcast will have 3 million downloads. And it just had 2 million not long ago. Oh my gosh, that's just nuts. And then the, the, the, the feedback that continues to come back is, is similar. And it grows in mass, which just I think proves to me it's working for people because totally woke so it's, it's very thrilling and and

Asha Brown 30:30
what actually makes sense that with with the life that we all must consider living moving forward, how's that for a politically correct way to say, we, this, you may find even more listeners tuning in, you know, people like reaching for, you know, options for entertainment that is inside their home, you know, that's engaging, they will explore and find, you know, this podcast that perhaps that they wouldn't

Scott Benner 30:59
want, I'm think you're gonna see too with more sedentary lifestyles, which are happening at the moment, people's insulin needs go up, and they don't see the correlation between being sent and their insulin needs. But anyway, so it's very uncommon for me, because you have, like you said, you do we are diabetes is a coaching site. Is that right?

Asha Brown 31:19
Well, it's no, I mean, that's like the pretty much the last part of it we are diabetes is actually a 501, c three nonprofit. And we are primarily supported to spreading awareness, education and support to people living with Type One Diabetes and disordered eating. And that kind of also includes their families or loved ones, as well as clinics and the providers that are working with these with these individuals. Okay,

Scott Benner 31:43
so if I had Is it me, is it mainly around disordered eating that you

Asha Brown 31:47
right now it is primarily is the primary focus. And what I always like to say is, once I see a large change, which I do believe is possible, not with this president, but perhaps the future one, as well as many other things in the medical world that will shift? Once I see that change? Then I have, I've got decades and decades of ideas of what wad can then move into. But right now we are, this is our primary focus.

Scott Benner 32:13
Am I mean, am I anywhere near your thinking? When I say that, I tell my daughter, and anybody who's willing to listen to the show, that I think limiting food because of diabetes is a gateway to an eating disorder?

Asha Brown 32:28
Yes, you are absolutely correct. And if you want to make banners, and you know, just like little Instagram posters with that message, I am fully behind you because you are correct.

Scott Benner 32:40
So I don't personally care how people eat. I just want them to be able to use insulin in the scenario they find themselves in. That's my goal for that I want you to be able to look at whatever it is you look at in the refrigerator. And say, I know how to Bolus for that. And I think that some people take that as meaning like I want everybody eat like very sugary, high carb things. I don't feel like that. I think if you want cake, you should have cake. I think I think that if you want to eat like today, in a couple of hours, I have an episode going up with an with a doctor who is firmly behind a carnivore diet. And I and I did not put that up because I was like, Oh, I want everybody to eat carnivore. I don't want everybody to understand, this is a different way some people eat. And yeah, if you want to do this, too, here's what it is. And you know what I mean? And then go figure out how to use insulin for it. I don't, I'm not into telling people what to do.

Asha Brown 33:36
No, I think along with that thought, for me, especially because of you know, the past few years with my health and understanding hormones and how deeply important and integral they are to functionality. Insulin is a hormone. So when you have to provide it synthetically, it does take more work and education, and a deep sense of understanding of how your body works with a bunch of variable factors, you know, so their food is, is like, Oh, this is a terrible metaphor, but it kind of goes food is the icing on the cake of the issue. It's really not the issue. It's understanding how insulin works with your body, your set of hormones and all the factors that change.

Scott Benner 34:22
And and it's one thing that gets lost so often and all this is is the idea that 10 carbs of one thing is not commensurate to tank carbs and another thing and it's just not at all and I'm at different times of day, it's a different ballgame. Yeah, I would tell you that I'm sure that if my daughter decided to eat, you know, a keto diet or an all meat diet or something like that, I'd have a easier time and she'd have an easier time managing her insulin. But you know, for context, Arden has what I would think is a fairly classic American diet or a one sees between five, two and six to four, six and a half years. So it's doable or variabilities good. Oh At that age, that's so good for her moving forward, it's listening. My point ends up being that I kept thinking back a long time ago, there's got to be a distilled way to think about the bigger tools, where then people can take them and apply them to their lives so they can take the hammer and the screwdriver that they were given and instead of being facia, but instead of beating in a nail with a hammer, they go, Well, if I flip this thing upside down and use the handle like this, you know, they can take the tools and do what they want with them. Right. That's it. I honestly think that managing insulin for most people, and there are a number of people who have extenuating medical circumstances, and I'm not putting them into the same boat. Yeah, but for most people, it's about having your basil, right, understanding the timing of meal insulin, understanding the impact of different carbs. And you know, from there more and more things, but you could start with those three things and have a successful life,

Asha Brown 35:59
I think. And then I think to add on to that, at least with my, you know, that was my community that I serve is being honest with yourself.

Scott Benner 36:13
What are ways people aren't honest with themselves,

Asha Brown 36:16
you know, that. So that goes into deep, many layers. So, honesty, about, you know, for people who have, you know, gravitate towards binge eating disorder, which, you know, I don't even, I want to avoid saying anything that is going to come back at me negatively. It's, it can be a common thing for people living with type one, to struggle with binge eating disorder, sometimes, right, and I'm not a doctor, there you go. But so being honest with how much food you're eating, being honest with your relationship with food, being honest about you know, how often, you know, you are reaching for food, instead of sharing your feelings. And you know, so it goes into a lot of different layers of honesty. And, you know, you're, you're even playing around with your ability to be honest with yourself.

Scott Benner 37:09
So there are people who are from a third party perspective, quite clearly making decisions that are impacting them. And then when you ask them what's going on, they're like, I don't know, I eat fine, right? Yeah, like that thing.

Asha Brown 37:24
Right? Yep. Yep. And, I mean, so and there's layers of that too, because I for years, was, so in denial that what I was doing, and the choices I were making was actually, you know, under the umbrella of an eating disorder, you know, I would never have used that word ever. And, and yet, I was so secretive and making don't and creating so many lies to protect my behaviors, and my choices and decisions. And my life had become very small in regards to food and what I could tolerate or trust it, you know, it was this big, big ball of, you know, those balls of rubber bands that people have in the office, you know, oh, it was a huge rubber ball of live bands, you know, big, big band of lies. So,

Scott Benner 38:15
yeah, your question cuz I'm looking at you, and I, oh, I've seen you over time. You're, I mean, listen, unless you change drastically below your navel. You're a trim lean person. Are you telling me that you were obese at some point?

Asha Brown 38:31
I was. I don't know, if I was obese. I certainly was heavier at different times in my life. Okay. I was I, my natural body size is what you see. And, you know, I've always been petite. I guess that's the word you use. what's ironic is that when my eating disorder began, you know, I did initially lose weight and I will not talk about any more specifics as to how that happened. But it happened. And what is also interesting is as I layered on more eating disorder, paid behaviors, and as I omitted more insulin, which meant I was constantly hungry and thirsty and craving carbs all the time, my body swole up. So I did gain a great deal of edema and just wait, you know, from years of bingeing and many other disordered behaviors,

Scott Benner 39:31
okay. I always struggle with like, I have people on who have who've suffered like with diabelli Mia, I've had just Billy Billy mix on who there was one girl on recently, she was terrific because she had it's weird how I think of like good stories. Fantastic. Way before she had diabetes, but it just made her story different, you know? And, and I, I always like I always get right up to the line, I want people to understand how insulin is reverse manipulated to keep weight down without without giving someone a step by step tutorial about how to have an eating disorder.

Asha Brown 40:16
Right. And it's so difficult because I see very well meaning people offering advice which there is a line crossed too many times about this. But, you know, Insulin is a hormone. If your hormones are imbalanced, things don't work out. I mean, that's the essence. So if you're getting too much insulin at certain times, and you're being forced to eat too much, that's not going to end well, long term, and you're not going to feel good. If you're not getting enough insulin, you know, things get imbalanced, that's not going to end well. You're not going to feel or look good. You know, it's like,

Scott Benner 40:52
I went up when I'm trying to explain to people when they're what I really do think everything starts at Basal. So when people when people have these little like graphs that go along, then they dip down, they come back up, my first question is, it's funny to watch people jump to conclusions, because I have a very robust Facebook page around the the podcasters. Like 7000 people in it right now. Like 6500 of them are active on a daily basis. Wow, nicest place I've ever seen on Facebook, people are not talking to each other at all. But it's interesting, I want to go live there. It is lovely, actually. But when you see stability, that's a small drop and comes back up again. still barely small drop comes back up again. Some people say, Oh, your basil is too high, it's dropping you down. But I always think to ask first, Hey, are you is that? are you feeding that low to stop it? Or are you bolusing? Right to like, like, are these spikes that that need insulin or these drops that need food? And then I very frequently use the phrase feeding insulin, because I find it intersects with people like that understanding that they're using too much insulin when you're using too much insulin. You have to feed it. Yep. health wise tonight. Yeah, bad for you. Right. But But management wise and figuring it out. If you find yourself feeding your insulin, you probably have a little too much somewhere. Right?

Asha Brown 42:16
I know. It's interesting, because I switched over to the Omni pod, actually, for the first pump of my life this year, you know, with quarantine and everything. I was like I finally I should probably finally try it right. And it was actually a wonderful experience because I was able to utilize integrate the integrated diabetes services. Daniel Hargan rater helped me, you know, yay for community, right. But it really did. Right to what you're saying about the basil being kind of a core. important factor. The major factor is I totally agree. And it's been fascinating to, to work on my specific basil needs, just because I also take steroids multiple times a day to stay alive with my Addison's disease. So it's been very interesting. Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:02
no kidding. I think I'm sniffing out as I pay attention, I speak to more and more people that some older diabetics, people who have had diabetes for a longer time going back to older insulins, who are on MDI, sometimes use more basil than they need, in the same way as they used to shoot their regular and right and then eat at a certain time. It's almost like I'll put the easel in and as it draws me down, I'll have a meal. And it's a timing thing works really well for them. If they have that regulated life, wants a choice, right. But I think at some point, it's interesting to watch people leave a heavy basil, the MDI program, and go to arm and go to a pump, because then they're like, I don't understand my blood sugar's 200. All the time. It's like, Hey, you don't realize you had way too much basil going before? Right? And so you weren't, you weren't bolusing or injecting as much at meals as you probably needed to. Because you had such a heavy layer of basil. And I'm fascinated by how insulin works and, and how

Asha Brown 44:07
it is. It is fascinating. And I think it's a good word to use, because I had to really go through this process of not believing it was the devil and that it was going to make me fat. But then I also had to totally embrace re educating myself and being curious about it instead of afraid of it. And I think there's this big fear thing. And you know, it's not helping, there's a lot of journalists out there and there's really bombastic titled articles about insulin resistance, and, you know, and, and so it just creates this fear. But if you're curious, and you're willing to just see what works. Life can be so much better. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:48
no, I mean, the whole kind of rallying cry around the podcast is to be bold with insulin. Yeah, just yeah, just use it the way you need it. What and I I'm, I'm fasting It is endlessly and I am some point going to get an adult on here who can who has diabetes who can talk about it about that idea that there's a certain amount of insulin that if I use over that I'm failing somehow.

Asha Brown 45:12
Oh, well, my goodness, well, maybe you should just have me come back on. And we'll talk specifically about that, Scott, because that's one of the conversations I have, almost daily with a client. I mean, that's a, that's a big, that's a big fear thing in regards to people who have disordered eating and thinking about diabetes.

Scott Benner 45:28
It's interesting how that those layers kind of pile on top of each other the idea that like, well, I, it's the insulins fault. I'm like, Well, no, it's carbs. And it's the carbs really, you're eating out so many carbs, you need this much insulin, right? So your problems, not the insulin, your problem is your intake. And if it's a problem, by the way, it's not a problem. You know, like when people say they get, you know, I'm so scared of insulin, because it's gonna make me fat. I think that it's such a simple thing that happens, that then gets blown up in people's minds and just spoken about incorrectly, like, you get diagnosed, oftentimes, you lose weight, and you start having insulin, your body starts processing food correctly. And then while the weight comes back on, now, if you're a person who's eating more calories, or more carbs in a day than your body needs, you are going to see weight gain from that correct. But that's not the insulin, just not the same way.

Asha Brown 46:24
It's Ultimately though, that that specific situation that you described is, isn't is very commonly a time when disordered eating and thinking patterns can occur for someone, just because they do see that big switch, you know, they're saying I didn't have enough insulin, but now they're putting insulin in me, they are right all this like, now insulin is, you know, insulin is to blame and insulin to the pencil that the

Scott Benner 46:51
guy put in his pocket before he robbed the bank. You know, what's wrong here? It's this. It's, um, it's a shame, and I but I understand how people come to the conclusion. Like, it's not crazy to say, okay, but Okay, so she's gotta go, I only have her for a short amount

Asha Brown 47:09
now. And I feel like you're right, this went so fast. We didn't even I feel like we didn't do anything. That's fine. But we just want much we did so much. But nothing. There's so much more to talk about.

Scott Benner 47:20
That's what the podcast is. It's everything all at the same time. But right. But I want to let people know it's we are diabetes.org. Right? That's correct. So if you're, if you're struggling with any sort of disordered eating, I go there. And what do I do? Do I reach out? How do I handle it?

Asha Brown 47:35
You follow the Did you know that we we've tried to make the website fairly clear. There's, you know, an about a section, there's a contact us section, the homepage states what we do. There's, there's lots of options for you to click on. And they will all reach me and my team? Well, yeah,

Scott Benner 47:57
I so seriously, I'm always as the podcast gets more and more popular, more people reach out and want to be on. And I feel badly about sometimes I get notes from people. And I'm like, this seems so good. But I don't know you. Like I can't I can't vouch for you. But you I felt like I could vouch for and I have to tell you that your connection to integrate it because Jenny Smith is a frequent guest on the show. Yeah, just having those connections and seeing what you're doing. I just thought it was really important to let people know about this as an option for them.

Asha Brown 48:28
So thank you. Yeah, thank you. Well, your your words, definitely have been the highlight of my week. It's really nice to hear well, it's

Scott Benner 48:35
only Wednesday, but I'm taking the compliment. Thank you so very much. I really appreciate you. Have a great day. You too. Bye, bye. first like to thank you for coming on the show a huge thank you, in fact, and remind you to check out we are diabetes.org. I also want to remind you, I also want to remind you to go to the T one D exchange at T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box. Click on join our registry, finish the survey support Type One Diabetes Research and support the podcast. We'll be doing all of that in just a few minutes of time. And of course, touched by type one.org. They're available on Instagram, and Facebook. And right there on their link touched by type one.org. Check them out.

Thank you very much for listening to the Juicebox Podcast. Please remember to share the show with someone you think might enjoy it. And of course, subscribe in your podcast app. If you're listening in the podcast that please hit follow or subscribe. And if you're listening online, check out the apps they're free. There's tons of links to a bunch of apps that will work for you. At Juicebox Podcast calm, but in the end you can listen anywhere you get your audio, Subscribe, Subscribe, subscribe. It really, really, really, really, really helps the show. Thanks so much. I'll see you soon.

#492 Grace Under Fire

Grace is an adult type 1. Today she battles a low to tell her story.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:11
Friends, you're listening to Episode 492 of the Juicebox Podcast. And today, my guest is grace. Grace has had Type One Diabetes for quite some time. And today she does a real kindness, she tells her story. But while she's doing so her blood sugar gets low. And we continue to record as she treats, responds and rebounds from the low blood sugar, you're going to get to hear the whole thing. It's incredibly interesting. Grace. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. I just want to say one more time. Because when we were done talking Grace was like, I'm afraid that would be boring, or I didn't. It's just it's incredibly interesting. And it's a kindness for grace to share this with us. So enjoy the conversation. learn something from the low blood sugar, and then have a great day.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo Kibo pen. Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. The show is also sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor and you can learn more and get started@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox.

Grace 1:50
I'm Grace, and I live in the North Country of Wyoming.

Scott Benner 1:56
That sounds pretty. Why do I think that sounds pretty? Yeah, because I've been I've been watching TV shows that take place in Wyoming during this entire COVID-19

Grace 2:07
heard your interview with someone talking about that there was a younger man that you interviewed a while back. I listen to your podcasts. And he's from landers, I think. Sure Wyoming. Yeah.

Scott Benner 2:23
Well, I've been watching I I've powerwatch Yellowstone. So that oh, I very much enjoyed. I also just got done watching longmire on Netflix, I seem to be in a modern Western phase. And so I just finished I finished longmire on Netflix. And now I've jumped at justified which is available right now on Hulu. But the I seem to be in some sort of a modern Western phase and Wyoming comes up a lot and all of them except for justify which is more like Kentucky. I think that's not the point. The point is grace. It sounds it sounds remote and lovely. Where you live. And I find that appealing a little bit but you're not there right now you're in California said

Grace 3:06
yes. I'm just not a big city, lots of traffic kind of person I don't. And although it's kind of on the outskirts of the major town, traffic where my mother resides, it is annoying for some little country girl like myself. And it's just challenging to drive and deal with, you know, the beep beep in Hong Kong. So I'm going to cut you off and get in your lane and you need to have a nice day. You're not

driving on an Indy Indianapolis 500 Speedway right. Now, there was a time in the day when I did do that. But I just not up myself from most of those stresses. So tell me a little bit about how old were you when you were diagnosed? I just turned eight. You were eight years old? How old? are you now? old enough to know better but too young to care about it. I'll leave that at that for a second.

I'll tell you I'll be 50 I'll be 59 in a couple of weeks. Okay.

Scott Benner 4:17
Alright. So you're 59 you've had you've had type one for 51 years. Correct. Wow. And how old your mom 80 something changes with changes. She's 8383 No kidding. Wow. And you're you just you're you're somewhere where she is now helping her? Correct. Gotcha. Okay. Well, how did you I have to ask first I guess how you found the podcast because you you fall outside of my age demographic a little bit for listeners.

Grace 4:50
But yeah, I know that in that fun. Um, let's see. How did I find you? Oh, I just been looking. I can Did my phone to listening to subjects of interest, right? Um, and somehow, I think I found you on Instagram first. Okay, and that's how I found you. And then I started squinting to read and look in and out, I just need to go on my laptop and see if I can make this work more easily for myself. And I found it. And then I connected your podcast, listening to my phone, cuz I'll run around the house doing household stupid stuff, and set the phone in a decent location, and just listen. And sometimes I'll actually sit down and listen to your podcasts, and I found them informative, and yet not so much. Because it's some of its new on the individuals and how they went about, you know, learning to manage. And because I was raised in a military home, I was just handed the insulin, you know, it was I was not allowed to leave the hospital until I was giving my own injections. And this is how you manage it. And this is how you take care of it. This is what you have to do. It's your disease, you take care of it at the age of eight. And so it was really different for me than what I'm hearing these protective parents and, you know, different types of women. There's a few out there that are a little more liberal with their kids. And but when they're diagnosed at two, then that doesn't work. No. Well, so well, I just,

Scott Benner 6:39
I'm sorry, to cut you off.

Grace 6:41
No, no, I just find it interesting the different ways that people were learning about how to manage take care of it.

Scott Benner 6:49
So is that what do you find? Or how do you find the more? Like, not simple? It's part of the of the conversations, the management stuff? Is it nearly the way you do it? Or how, like, when we talk about Pre-Bolus thing, and and you know, I'm

Grace 7:08
learning that there are times when I do need to Pre-Bolus and there are times when I absolutely don't, for myself as an individual with 51 years of Type One Diabetes from the old glass syringes, two vials of you know, long acting insulin that never worked for me, put me into shock or DK a, I was all over the map for a very long period of time until I went to pumping. So there are times when I do need to Pre-Bolus a little bit on being bold with insulin was something I've always done.

Scott Benner 7:47
You just always that was being aggressive. Yeah. Well, so there's a lot here that I'm super interested in. I'm glad I'm glad you're on. Do you wear a glucose monitor now? I do. Yes. Which one do you have?

Grace 7:59
I just moved to the Dexcom. Six, about 60 days ago, I was on the library. And it was just giving me too many low blood sugar readings compared to finger sticks. So Dexcom working it out. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 8:18
So now that you have a CGM on that you can see continuously, where where does your blood sugar? Does your blood sugar sit stable, or does it jump around all the time?

Grace 8:30
Um, yeah, it's still pretty. It vacillates to a certain degree. It It depends on my activity, you know, activity. There's three things that manage me. That's activity, medication.

Unknown Speaker 8:47
And so, right.

Grace 8:49
However, I can go for a 45 minute walk. And I maintain a certain levels stay at 116 to 110. And then 20 minutes after my walk. I bought them out at like 35. So

Scott Benner 9:06
okay, so what insulin are you using? I'm just using noval Auto blog in a pump. And you have CGM. Okay, what may I ask your current a one c ish?

Grace 9:19
You want to tell me exactly I believe it was a 5.9 Ah,

Scott Benner 9:26
okay. lifetime. Were you able Where were you keeping it in your 40s for example, a decade ago or more?

Grace 9:37
A little higher. I was in this mid 70s. When that was what I've been on a pump for 17 years okay. And I didn't want to go on when because they were huge and bulky. Originally on they were just like oh my gosh, cumbersome. I've never gone on that for eight years. The greatest endocrinologists I ever had, which I still love and would see him if, you know, I needed to this this is not geographically desirable, because he's in California and I'm in, you know, Wyoming. But um, he suggested it. He said, Well, I'm glad you waited until the technology got better. And I said, Well, I think it's time and I was in the 15th and 16th, with my agency at that point,

Scott Benner 10:32
and back, then you're using just some some sort of a fast acting instance, I'm sort of a slow acting insulin or were you like, mph and are an are like

Grace 10:42
it? Yeah, I was you using regular insulin. And a single to double, we tried single dose of NPH, we tried double dose of NPH. And for some reason, because it took them six months to diagnose me. Okay, we were in transition in the military life that I grew up in, I'm transporting relocating been to 35 different schools probably moved 14 150 times a minute. You broke up a little bit there. What

Scott Benner 11:25
did you say? Was your father a general?

Grace 11:28
No, no, but we did relocate frequently. And it was a lot to do with family family dynamics. I'm the youngest of three. I'm the only one that's ever had, you know, any medical problems, and we just lost my sister, she passed away unexpectedly. So that's why I'm here. I'm here to help. You know, my mother manage different things in her life.

Scott Benner 11:57
I'm sorry. You're just your sister passed recently. And she had been helping your mother?

Grace 12:03
Yes, somewhat. Mom is very stubborn, very independent. And I'm going to do it myself. And we only recently convinced her that she didn't need to be driving.

Scott Benner 12:16
She stopped going for a ride in California.

Unknown Speaker 12:20
Wow. Oh, so this

Scott Benner 12:22
is this is really something because you lived in a completely lived in manage your diabetes in a completely different technological time. And now you're, I mean, you're as modern as you could possibly be right now with your care. And your it's Are you having a lot of lows that are keeping your a one c lower? Like, are you under

Grace 12:44
probably a few more than desirable, but I took all my devices, I took my PDM and my controller into the doctor's office while I was at the blood lab. And that's in Colorado, and dropped it off while they downloaded and uploaded. And then I went back to get it. And so he was like, congratulations, she says, looks like you're doing he says I like your current settings. Because I too have that stubbornness. I'm gonna do it myself. And you can just write the prescription, please. You know, it's like, he asked me one time, I told him about, you know, your podcast, he says, You're not becoming bold with insulin, are you and we just laugh, because, you know, come on. Well. Alright, so the the military doctor that once they finally diagnosed me, he said, yeah, it's just don't deprive her of any, you know, food values or going to a birthday party or whatever. He said, to just give her a little more regular insulin. So that was how we managed, you know, 50 years ago. Why should that change now? Right.

Scott Benner 13:55
Are you telling me the doctor, when you told the doctor about the podcast, he was aware of it? Correct? Oh, I want to take a moment to thank all the people who tell their endocrinologist about the podcast. Thank you. That's really crazy. This was in Colorado. Correct? Nice. I'm huge in Colorado, Utah, too, in case you're wondering.

Grace 14:14
Um, I noticed that you know, you're you've pre international my friend you really got it going on?

Unknown Speaker 14:22
Yeah, well, I'm

Scott Benner 14:24
really thrilled that you like the podcast because it says a lot to me that someone who's lived through many different iterations of type one diabetes, and who I mean and I don't mean this insultingly obviously but you're on the other side of pod listening to podcasts in general, age wise, that you found it and that you enjoy it means a lot to me. It really does like it that's a very good sign to me about the show that you specifically can listen to it, find something interesting or helpful about it is really a is wonderful. I'm so happy They were talking today. I'd love to know a little bit about, I mean, have you been married through your life? You have children, like, what's a little bit of your background?

Grace 15:11
Okay, so I did the married thing once. And we're no longer married, I was unable to have children. And the I've been a parent. I semi adopted and an open adoption for boys. So they're a major part of my life. So I'm there. If you want to know the truth there, I'm there go to girl. Things are going, Hey, Miss corpus with other relationships in their life. And, you know, we talk about it. And I listened to them. And I worked with Exceptional Children for 20 years. And so that's kind of my background with that. The marriage didn't work out because I didn't like getting beat up and tossed around. And it was just not a good situation. And I don't tolerate that very well. So

Scott Benner 16:08
that's good for you What man is like in what part of your life were you married? What age were you?

Grace 16:14
I got married at 43.

Scott Benner 16:16
Okay, choo, you are a trailblazer in a lot of different ways. And this guy was a jackass. And you were like, that's when I'm not doing this?

Grace 16:24
Well, yeah, I waited and waited, and I let him make that decision so that the financial responsibility fall into his lap race. You wait, you

Scott Benner 16:33
waited him out? For money reasons that you are a tough lady?

Grace 16:39
Not really, I'm fragile, but I don't want to admit it. You know,

Scott Benner 16:44
I'm sorry, that that's terrible that, um, that anybody would lay their hands on you like that?

Grace 16:50
Well, he did it in such a way that well, you know, when you are of his type, a government official, let's just put it that way. You could get away with things that weren't obvious.

Scott Benner 17:07
Okay. So he was a type of person who, who nobody would have thought that or would have gone after had they thought it and so he had a little autonomy to be to hurt you. Without without any repercussions? Correct? Yeah. I'm sorry.

Grace 17:26
Well, it took me a while to figure out that, you know, I was not in a good enough situation. But the funny thing is, is is that, you know, I you know, my father basically raised me, my, my mom was, you know, had raised her two older kids and was deeply and heavily involved in their life, and she had returned to school to get her medical license finished up. And I was what my dad was getting ready to retire from the military. So he raised me for the most part. And Be that as it may, I've always enjoyed guns and outdoors and horses and you know, riding the rains with motorcycles and dogs. And so it was just like, and then you know, of course, I do know how to dawn, the dressing the tends to go to a banquet, or whatever. So when I met this gentleman we met. And we talked for hours on the internet. And finally, he revealed to me what he did and who he was and had to have my background check. He had to have me background checks just to date me. So that mean, yeah, I was like, Huh, interesting. And when I told my dad, I said, I must have done something, right, because I passed with flying colors. But there was another manipulation that I wasn't really aware of.

Scott Benner 18:57
making you feel important and Exactly, yes, exactly. increase. I'll tell you, I've recorded like 500 of these and still people surprise me all the time with stories that I've just never heard before that that's going to be one of them. How long were you with him before you got out?

Grace 19:18
From dating to let's see. 13 years? Oh my gosh, yes, sir. 13 years. Oh,

Scott Benner 19:28
how did you handle like with all that going on? diabetes come into the picture, or did he? Was he basically unaware of it?

Grace 19:37
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I've been open about my diabetes because I am. Um, I easily. My blood sugar shifts like it shifting now and I can feel it. Sometimes I don't feel it at all. So sometimes I'm a little too bold with insulin. So my I don't think I would ever be a candidate for the horizon, or the loop system, because I'm manipulate my dosage according to what's going on with me. What do you think constantly?

Scott Benner 20:15
Okay, well, so I'm sorry. So I have two questions now because I use the wrong word before but what I meant was while you were married, would you just manage your diabetes on your own? He was not involved in it.

Grace 20:27
Oh, yeah, pretty much and he would, you know, throw temper tantrums because, you know, he didn't understand why why would be taking some insulin when you know, I had drink 40 ounces of juice to come up from a low blood because the gastro precice right. So that's why it takes a while for me to respond to getting my blood sugar backup.

Scott Benner 20:55
If it drops you have gastro you have gastroparesis, too. And, and I mean, honestly, like, I'm thrilled that you found all the technology you found but if you had a one sees in the double digits through a larger portion of your life, that's what I was going to ask you. Have you had any repercussions of it? So gastroparesis is one Do you have anything else?

Grace 21:14
Um, yeah, I've had multiple eye surgeries, hand surgeries. That, you know, with the triggering fingers. I have neuropathy in my feet. pretty severely at times, you know, I get rested. I take Tylenol for the discomfort and once in a while and gabapentin but I'm not fond of that. Because it just makes me so what's the word I want? puts me into lala land and I don't care for the double vision or the side effects are worse than the relief that it semi helps with.

Scott Benner 21:58
I just had a little bit of noise on your end. So I didn't hear the second medication that you're saying you don't like to take what was it?

Grace 22:04
It's called Gabba Gabba pinton It's a neurological it's it's a for pain and it supposedly is to help neuropathy.

Scott Benner 22:18
I see it here anticonvulsant anti-convulsant and nerve pain medication it can treat seizures and pain caused by shingles and apparently gives you double vision and doesn't make you feel good. Is

Grace 22:32
it makes you groggy and it does meet some people. I mean, they take it in the hands for have by handfuls and it's perfectly fine. No kidding. Oh, I

Scott Benner 22:41
see the uses for Scott while he uses restless leg Fibromyalgia or they use it for a lot of different things. sciatica. Okay, sorry, I went down a little rabbit hole there on the internet. I got a little lost. Alright. So what is it like when you've lived your life with a onesies that are higher and and then all of a sudden, you've got this pump? And then now more recently, you have a glucose monitor? Is it like how do you feel physically? First of all, do you feel any differently than you have in the past?

Grace 23:21
Um, yeah, I physically, I still feel pretty good. For someone that's had it as long as I have, and you've been through, you know, the traumas and the the changes of control as versus I feel more in control of it than I have ever. That's excellent with the CGM. And the you know, I, I don't know if it's okay to say I'm pretty sure it's all right to let you know that I am using the Omni pod. Dash.

Scott Benner 23:59
I heard you say PDM earlier. So I figured you were using Yeah,

Grace 24:03
right. So and I haven't been using it all that long. I've only been on the on the pod dash for a couple of years. But when you are used to wearing you know the tubing and you have enough accidents between you know, getting cut or caught on something, you're not aware of it and it's disconnected and you all of a sudden you just fall out and they're you know lifting you into an ambulance and you come through and like what happened and very good. It looks like your tubing got good. So that gets to be too dangerous for somebody that remains active. Yeah, as myself. I'm not as active as I would like to be or once was but I just I'm not ready to give up yet. No. It's just not there.

Scott Benner 24:56
You don't sound like somebody is gonna give up to me. But I take your point. It's funny, like, you know, when I when I do the ads um, you know, I'll say sometimes like, you know, you don't get your tubing caught on a doorknob and get it your site ripped out or, but you're even saying that can happen and you just won't know what happened. And then

Grace 25:12
I had it I had it happen a couple of different times in different ways. But yeah,

Scott Benner 25:17
yeah, that's not good, because now suddenly, you do not have any insulin that you think you do. And I guess that that quickly escalates to very high blood sugars. I was talking with somebody yesterday, who had a malfunction with their pump. And they said, like, you know, what'll happen if I just don't take insulin till I get the new pump tomorrow as I get I'm probably dead. You know, like, you can't not have insulin. It's I'm always fascinated by by how little sometimes people understand that insulin they're getting, you know, if it's slow acting through injection is the is the is the thing, keeping them going. You know, like, the minute you take it away. It's It's It's a bad it's bad news, you know, and, but I never thought of it that way. But you lived in a different time with diabetes. That really is interesting.

Grace 26:10
Yeah, we had to boil my glass syringes, right? They had the disposable needle caps that were like 10 Penny nails to an eight year old child was like,

Scott Benner 26:24
little big, those needles weren't as fine as those little ones are now I guess.

Grace 26:28
Yeah. Oh, goodness. No, absolutely not. And, you know, the only way that they could test my blood was to draw intravenously. And that was even more traumatic for me. I was like, that my dad had to just sit me in his lap and wrap his legs and arms around me while they you know, someone else held my arm out for them to draw it. And I'm still I hate that I hate hated I hated

Scott Benner 26:59
blood draw in general just doesn't work for you. Because of all the times when you were younger.

Grace 27:05
And I'm scarred. I'm scarred. I mean, physically. There's scars on my arms. From you know, the drawing my blood. So, yeah, well, military hospitals were not up to date.

Scott Benner 27:19
You were probably just an end. It's a it's a it's a kid of a someone and you have diabetes. And it's got its, I mean, I'm just I haven't even done the math, but 50 years ago. 1970 ish. Is that Yeah, about you when you were diagnosed? Maybe 1969 69.

Grace 27:38
Yeah, it was in March of 1969. I remember like it was yesterday. Because I was sick. I had been sick. Well, we had relocated from the east to the west, literally. And it was you know, I don't know if you're familiar with I got a treat for a little bit low. They

Scott Benner 28:04
can we take a take a U turn for a second? What number you What number are you trading at?

Grace 28:12
It's dropping rapidly. I'm at 70 that's what did it say? It's at 80. I knew I said 71. So I'm gonna go ahead and choose here. Yeah, the puppy already he starts

Scott Benner 28:34
a dog they're way ahead of time. issue a dog there with you or you're getting low and confused and you're talking to yourself which is going on a little bit of both. g Volk hypo pan has no visible needle, and it's the first pre mixed autoinjector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is chivo hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G Volk glucagon.com forward slash juicebox g vo shouldn't be used in patients with insulin, Noma or pheochromocytoma. Visit g Vogue glucagon.com slash risk.

The first time I ever heard about the Dexcom was years and years ago Arden's nurse practitioner told us that there was this device that you could see your blood sugar in real time on and it was called a Dexcom. She said, Are you going to get a Dexcom and I was like, I don't know what that is. So she explained to me that she had a kid in the practice who was super excited to get a Dexcom so that they could learn how to eat their favorite snack, this this thing that they had struggled with constantly with a spike. And they thought that by seeing their blood sugar, you know, they might be able to make better decisions with insulin. And what a What a fun thing to think back on back when that was just like a an idea in someone's head like maybe if you could see it, it would be easier. Oh, what an understatement, huh? Well today, many years later, I can tell you that that absolutely turned out to be 100% true, and a lot more actually. So the Dexcom gs six allows you to see your blood sugar in real time, not just the number, but the speed and direction. And this information is invaluable. It helps me every day to make amazing decisions about Arden's care. It could help you to I think dexcom.com forward slash juicebox alerts where you want them, you want to be alarmed when you go below 90 you can do that. You don't want it to happen until you're below 80. You can do that 70 it's up to you. You want to hear a rise alert. I like mine at 120 on Arden's phone, it's 130 these distinctions are yours to make. And you can decide who if anyone you want to share your data with. So Arden's data is shared with me and my wife. But it could also be shared with up to eight more people, right so Arden can see it plus 10 more people of her choosing. Now if you're an adult, maybe that's your husband, or your mother. If it's for your child, it could be anybody daycare provider, school nurse, it's completely up to you choices yours dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. I'll tell you this, were these results are ours and yours may vary. But my daughter has zero diet restrictions, sheets, a fairly classic American diet. And her a one C has been in the fives for seven years. I think a lot of that has to do with being able to see the data, being able to see where her blood sugars going, and how fast it's getting there. I hope you check it out. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. There's links in the show notes to that. And all of the sponsors. You can also find those links at Juicebox Podcast comm

Grace 32:23
Well, he he moved himself from one position to the next and came in lay next to me by my feet. And he just kind of groans at me if I'm up and about but if I'm not awake, he scratches me off the bed and he'll sit beside the bed and start barking and let me know.

Scott Benner 32:41
Is he on alert dog? Or does he just

Grace 32:43
Yes, he is. He's, he's a da da diabetic alert dog. As I stepped down my orange juice,

Scott Benner 32:55
do you see are you give like a straight arrow down or diagonal? Or when you're Dexcom? What are you saying?

Grace 33:02
It's a straight arrow. it'll drop even more even after I get the juice on board.

Scott Benner 33:08
Because the gas your prices, you won't pick the juice up as quickly.

Grace 33:11
Correct. And I can always what I typically do now that I've found works is I'll drink my juice and I'll open up for a sugar packet and just absorb that through my cheeks, gums your cheeks, right. So even the gel tubes don't get on board as quickly or something like this. So, how,

Scott Benner 33:35
how frequently do you have to do this?

Grace 33:39
Usually about daily. But I'm just too bold with insulin sometimes because when I see it when I'm rising rapidly, I correct right away and it kind of gives me that opportunity.

Scott Benner 33:55
Get too aggressive at the wrong time. So you have trouble I guess Pre-Bolus and because the gastro priestess you don't always know how quickly the food is gonna get taken up. Right? Yeah. Have you tried? Have you tried Pre-Bolus Singh some but not all, and then putting in the rest as soon as you see the food hitting you.

Grace 34:17
That idea is very new to me. Um, but I've heard you, you know, on your podcast, talk about them here because I thought Hmm, you know, that might be something worthwhile for me.

Scott Benner 34:31
100% So, I'll talk for a second so you can take a break, but like the way I you know, I've said this before, but I had someone with gastro precice contact me privately to try to talk through this idea. And I really didn't know what to say obviously. And as we were talking about it, I thought the closest thing that I imagined to her situation and yours is the idea of a young person, a toddler who people say well, I can't Pre-Bolus because I don't know if they're going to eat or not. So I just changed that in my mind to I can't Pre-Bolus because I don't know if the food's gonna be there or not like working, you know, hitting my blood sugar. And so what I always tell young people, you know, parents of young people is I would put some in, you know, pick an amount that feels safe. And then as soon as you see the rest of it hitting, like, go ahead and put it put it in. And I don't know that that's not a great idea for you to try at least because, because maybe in some situations, you'd notice, well, I don't need it right away. And it could end up being it could end up being in a long amount of time, right before the food hits you. And then other days, it depends

Grace 35:38
on the type of food I'm consuming as well. Pizza versus, you know, vegetables?

Unknown Speaker 35:46
Or is it

Scott Benner 35:48
like this? Or it depends on your system to?

Grace 35:53
Yeah, it does. It depends on the time of day and how much activity and did I go for a walk? Or did I not? Am I packing up my car to go on a 1700 mile trip? How many steps I'm taking, right? And it's the day before, so the activity doesn't normally hit my body right away. I found that to be very interesting as well. And I'm, you know, the gas trio preseason has been happening since I was in my late 20s. It was diagnosed in my late 20s.

Unknown Speaker 36:38
I'm

Grace 36:41
sitting back down because if I'm if if that's a problem with headphones, I tend to be active tend to get a little like, Oh, I need to pace your walk away. And I probably shouldn't because you know, my blood sugar's now at 61. But I don't believe it's entirely that low.

Scott Benner 36:57
Do you want to test out let me listen. To be perfectly honest, somebody's having a low blood sugar on a podcast about Type One Diabetes is content. It's you're not wasting my time. So right now people are like, I wonder what this lady is gonna do. But do you want to test with a meter? How are we gonna do it?

Grace 37:14
No, I'm fine. Sure. Yeah, I don't. It's because of the interstitial fluids. If I'm leaning or tapping, or there's, you know, if I were a tighter sleeve around the CGM. I feel like it's just possibly be that low, but I'm not, you know, passed out or babbling and

Scott Benner 37:40
where do you usually pass out? out? And secondly, do you want to give me your location so I can call 911 for you if you need me?

Grace 37:47
Well, the dog is not blocked the door he won't let me leave the room. He's like, yeah, I'm moving over here. Cuz, you know.

Scott Benner 37:56
So he wants you to stay still and handle yourself now. Yes, he knows that you took in carbs.

Grace 38:04
Yes. And I completely. I went to I have, you should see my PDM you'd love this. What I did when I saw it, I've moved to I'm not hungry. So for an hour, I won't be getting any insulin in a Temp Basal.

Scott Benner 38:25
So you did a Temp Basal decrease, like all the way down like 0% for an hour? Yes. Will that cause the high blood sugar later or not necessarily.

Grace 38:37
What I'll do is I'll I'll cancel and eventually, as I see the new bunch of CGM start to come back up. Yeah. I look at it a lot. Because in my work allows it if I'm working, if I do, if I'm working a contract from home, I can, you know, manage my diabetes better. If I'm out in the field, doing inspections, it's a little more challenging, because I'm more active. And it just, it's just nice to have this. It's just a big help from my lifestyle.

Scott Benner 39:15
Yeah, well, someone like you who's had so much experience prior to this, just being able to basically flip a switch and shut off your Basal insulin. must be pretty exciting, honestly.

Grace 39:28
Oh, it really is. It definitely is very exciting. I didn't you know, because I looked, I studied technology. And I have a couple of degrees in AI but that doesn't mean anything because, you know, data technology, I saw it come into play and just become so dynamic so quickly, so rapidly. I knew I went I'm never going to be able to keep up with set this point. You know, so I'm I'm glad I have that education. But I'm more happy about it being available to treat diabetes type one.

Scott Benner 40:11
No, I agree. I think that it's, it's pretty amazing how far we've come so quickly. And even though we talked about, you know, 50 years is being your lifetime with diabetes, that seems like forever. And it really is for you personally, you know, in, in the grand scheme of things in the way technology moves. In the last decade, things have moved exponentially faster than they did the, you know, maybe the four or five decades prior, we've gone farther quicker. And it Oh, absolutely, yeah, it seems to just, hey, last night, one o'clock in the morning, last night, I got up to let my dogs out. And as I'm coming back upstairs, I get a notification on my phone, that, you know, astronauts are about to enter the International Space Station, and I push a button, and five seconds later, I'm watching astronauts go from, from a spaceship into a space station on my cell phone while I'm walking up my stairs. And I'm Listen, I'm in my late 40s. And I had a computer when I was 12, or 13, probably 13 or 14, I had one of the very first like, two E's from Radio Shack first, and we'd like common words, and you know, and and so being a person who's been right there it computing from the very beginning. I'm still going to tell you that I still had a moment last night where I was stunned that I was looking down at a crystal clear screen watching astronauts float into the space station. I thought oh, my gosh, that is really an exceptional leap that we've made, that they can do that and that I can see it, you know?

Grace 41:47
Yeah, especially because we're watching the after effect on genius, black and white screen TVs that was, you know, one of the best TVs available. You know, we showed,

Scott Benner 41:59
we showed Arden Arden Sala an old console television the other day. She's like, What is? Her first question was why is the TV on the floor in this picture? mounted to the wall? She's like, why is it on the floor? I'm like, it used to be part of furniture. Yeah, then we found like, then we found a piece of a picture where you could see like, inside of a console television, let's hop in the bot and the back. And she was just like, what is all that? Red tube? Right? There were tubes and big like circuit, it was no circuit boards, you know, tubes and all this stuff. And she and now our television is is whisper thin, you know? And it's I mean, I basically have a TV now that's just a it's it's basically a piece of glass with a small computer attached to the back of it. I mean, honestly, that's kind of what it is, you know, with this?

Grace 42:52
Yeah, absolutely. Because the circuit boards are so paper thin. And they're you know, they're made of, you know, copper, and aluminum. And, you know, the circuit boards. I used to work after school. for IBM, I was I worked for an independent contractor that we wired, these, I forget what they're called now. But I would follow this, you had to be able to detect your colors, you need to know what red, yellow and blue. That was it, you know, you could do that you can read the diagrams and follow the wiring, and then switch it. And they were huge. They were big. There was just an after school job I made, you know, like 250 an hour. Right? Yeah. And this was I wouldn't, you know, rope these wires, this wax string together and send these this diagram in multiple directions, and then add the connecting ins to it. And it would go to a different department after I did that in my, you know, my supervisor would come by and he says, I need 10 people just like you that can do this so that we can increase production. I said, You know, I said look at what it's doing to my hands. He said, Oh, we need gloves on you. And I said yeah, something. So a friend of mine wanted to earn some extra money after school too. So I said, Hey, Robin, you want to go check this job out this for me, my employers, my supervisors looking for you know, more help. She said, Sure. So here we are two of us girls, and the rest of them are men and they're these, you know, huge, big, gigantic, enormous guys working around us and like we can't keep up with these young women. They're doing a better job than we was just for extra cash. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:02
Wow, extra cash at 250 an hour. You must have been rolling.

Grace 45:06
Oh my goodness. Oh, yeah. Hey, how are you feeling? Oh, I'm still low, but you know, it's not beeping anymore.

Scott Benner 45:17
What did you Dexcom? Say? I'm 49 it says 49. So now are we at the point where we think if we test you're more like 60? Or do you think you really are 49?

Grace 45:27
I think I'm gonna go ahead and give it a finger stick

Scott Benner 45:29
god, I'm just do it. You're not going anywhere? No, where am I going?

Grace 45:34
Can I walk without falling down? should see the look on the dog's face? Are you crazy moment because when we're out walking, he'll tap me in the knee. Right on the knee. Right? And say, Hey, you know, this is not good. We're in the vehicle. He has a compartment in the back where he rides or this mat and he's tethered in. It's like, they'll start whining. And he'll he'll pout at me from an Aussie. I'm in the rearview mirror. And I'm like, is it blood sugar? Right now pull over a tree. I may have to take another pack of sugar. But let's see what we get here.

Scott Benner 46:33
That's the Contour. Next One meter you have right? If you have it, you got it with a dash. Correct? Yeah, it's good meter. We're gonna get a good number here. Let's see.

Grace 46:52
Yeah, it says I'm 73. So you know that still any? I don't know if it's my scanner, where I put my the transmitter in the sensor?

Scott Benner 47:07
Well, I would tell you that if you were dropping quickly, and I would expect this. So I expected you to be higher than the number on the CGM when you test it. So you're dropping quickly. You caught it with some fast acting sugar, which I think means that your body's that the actual reading inside of your body is going to come up probably five or 10 minutes before the CGM can can really figure it out. Because it's all kind of happening so fast. I don't think you're putting your sensor in a bad place. I just think that you know CGM Technologies a tiny bit behind real time. And you were speaking Okay, like I didn't think you were 49 the way you were talking. I know you probably don't feel great, because you're probably still feeling the low. You haven't gotten the benefit of it coming back up. Yeah. Is that right?

Grace 47:55
Yeah, I'm still. I'm stuttering.

Scott Benner 47:59
Right. Don't listen, unless you listen back to this one day and end up saying, I never worked in a place where I worked with technology and wonder where I came up with that story.

Grace 48:11
Oh, no, you kidding? I grew up with an engineer from Ford aerospace, my, my cousin, my cousin's dad, my cousin, my first cousin, my second cousin, my second cousin, my third cousin, second, third cousins. Yeah, he was an engineer for Ford aerospace. And then my stepfather was a he worked for the skunk team at Department of Defense's, an engineer. So he was a lot of fun. He and I got along great. But he my brother and sister did not like the guy. God rest his soul. But he I understood him and I liked him. And we enjoyed some of the same things. Watching, you know, television and DVDs and you know, yeah, he was brilliant.

Scott Benner 48:58
That's nice. That's Oh, yeah. Well, are you I want to make sure you're feeling okay.

Grace 49:04
Oh, yeah. I feel pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not running around. I'm sitting down and trying to behave myself. So that.

Scott Benner 49:14
So tell me a little bit about Let me ask you a couple of little interesting questions that are interesting to me. Can you tell me about how much you weigh in what your basil rate is?

Grace 49:24
Yeah, my basil rate is 13.2 a day? Yes. Okay. So I weigh about 110 112 pounds, some five foot 313 divided

Scott Benner 49:41
by 24. Are you getting? point? 5.55 an hour?

Grace 49:47
Just Yeah, about that. Point 5.55 an hour. That's my favorite Basal.

Scott Benner 49:56
What's your favorite?

Grace 49:56
Pick it up, pick up, pick it lower. If I'm going to go out exercising, walking? Or if I'm going to take the dog to the park

Scott Benner 50:05
overnight, how do your graphs look overnight? Are they stable and lower? Um, they vacillate a little bit. How about how much? Just the ability is there? Like, overnight? Are you up and down? Are you in a straighter line?

Grace 50:25
I'm in a straighter line for the most part. Yeah, that's my trickiest moment. You know, right before I get sick, like if I'm going to get the flu or if I'm going to get bronchitis typically late. Winter, I come down with it on a pretty regular basis. I'll have a severe low the day or two before, I'm really sick. Okay. Which is a big indicator.

Scott Benner 51:00
Yeah, the illness is coming. Right? I think Arden has that same thing if Arden gets like a head cold, or you know, nothing like stomach related, but like a head cold, or one of those things where you're functioning, okay, but you don't feel well. She seems to need less insulin during those times, as well. But it's interesting that you get, like stubborn lows, and then then you see the illness. a day or so later. That's interesting. Well, I'm just I'm just trying to understand, like, so you have a couple of different, you know, challenges, obviously, one of them is the gastro priestesses. That is, I would think the biggest one, the idea of how do you stop spikes at meals if you don't know when the meals are going to impact you? Or if they ever well, right? Or if it'll be hours and hours later? And then it sounds like during activity, you can drop pretty easily. Like those Do you think of those as your two biggest kind of hurdles with diabetes? I do. Yeah. You know, I was a swimmer. Imagine that. Like that, you're laughing at the idea that you were a swimmer.

Grace 52:14
You know, I dive and we would practice in a 50 yard pool, lot of flips, a lot of back and forth, back and forth. two miles of exercise is swimming, you're using every body muscle that you possess. And my favorite sport was Polo waterpolo. Because I, I just enjoyed, I enjoyed it, it was fun. So um, but competitively I was, you know, like, on the D team, the slowest swimmer, I, I could do length, I could swim forever. But I couldn't compete because I wasn't fast, I wouldn't stay on the surface. Because when you're swimming competitively The idea is is that you use the water to move through it at the level of the water. That's the idea that there's a lot of resistance, you know, if you're not swimming streamline, so as is for most of us, you can't, you know, teachers become instructors and teachers. If you can't do it, make it work for you, you become a teacher of the art. And that's how I figured it out. You know, and I started working with Exceptional Children in the water to practice my art, because I'm better instructor of it that I am a swimmer of it because when you watch me demo is like, that's a butterfly stroke. It looks like you're you know, you've been hit with stroke lady. You're sure you're not having a stroke in water.

Scott Benner 54:10
I think you misspoke. You're not showing us a stroke, you're having a stroke. And listen, I wonder too, when you were younger with the higher blood sugars, if maybe you physically just weren't able to move as quickly as maybe you could have as well a well could have been very well. Isn't it fascinating? Isn't it fascinating that that so many people and you're just a good example of it right now but who lived prior to this technology and honestly who lived today without it? Our I don't know what to say like I don't know how you would put it but it sounds to me while I'm listening that you were your life was was restricted in ways that probably after a while you didn't recognize where restrictions but that your physical, you're physically and maybe mentally Because of like low blood sugars or high blood sugars, were being held back and you didn't even really know I guess you just doing the best you could with the information you had and, and the way things were done back then, do you look back on it? Is it sad to look back on it? Or you just have

Grace 55:16
that where you are? It's not sad. It's what I knew. Yeah. Okay. So what I think is probably, The disadvantage is that my parents were not educated any differently, either. Right. Growing up on military basis, until I was 19 years old. And then, you know, moving from that? Well, yeah, because, like I said, My father is basically the main parent. He was the main parent in my life for a very long time. And we he let me drive the golf car. You know, that was always fun. I didn't play golf, but he would send me on the putting course you'd say, my daughter's putting for me. You had a bad ankle, you know. And so his, they were just they loved it. They loved that, you know, I could put, and I was pretty daggone good at it. So you know, it was like, okay, you're up there. And I would just straight out there with his putter. I would make the putt and they would be sitting over standing over on the sidelines, making their bets

Scott Benner 56:47
about whether or not you think about

Grace 56:50
Yes. He would say, Hello, no, she sees that roll. I don't think she sees that, that turf the way I'm seeing it because I'm in a different visual advantage. And he would cue me in a little bit. He said, you when you sink this putt, and you know, you can have anything at the clubhouse you want.

Scott Benner 57:18
He said, Look, if I think this but I'm taking half this money, you ain't How's that?

Grace 57:22
Money was never no money. My sister, my sister was driven by money. I've never been driven by it. Yeah, you got it. You got it. You don't you don't. It's just it's never been a force. For me. If the more I have, the more I spent it, any of us?

Scott Benner 57:44
I don't know. I like to try to save some money.

Grace 57:46
Anybody can make money. It's keeping it. Yeah, oh, investing it properly. That's the ticket. That's the hard thing to do.

Scott Benner 57:57
not spending it is a is the thing. They don't tell you that you have to teach yourself. I you know, it's funny, we were just talking to my son the other day. And he asked if he wanted to try investing money a little bit. He had, you know, his a couple of his friends are doing it. And he wanted to try as well. And so for Christmas, he asked for a little bit of money that he could like, instead of a Christmas present, he's like, Can I just have some cash, I want to try this thing. And so he and I were talking about it. And I told him I was like, you know, when you were little, you know, people would give you money for your birthday or for Christmas. And you were our first kid. And you know, mom's first reaction was, well, we'll put it in the bank for him. And I said, Let's let him keep some of it. And like we can put some in the bank. I said, but you know, we'll teach him how to put some aside. I was like, but let's let him have it. Because I found that my concept was that given a kid $20 or $40, or sometimes, you know, $50 that come in a birthday card. And given them the ability to spend it so that he could see what happens to the money once it's gone. Like let him experience having it Yeah, right. And then suddenly not having it and then seeing that, oh, I have this thing now. And then realizing Three weeks later, I don't even know where that thing is right. I'm not as interested in it as I thought I was. But the money's gone now. And if I would have held on to this 50 and put it to this 50 and this 50. And on and on, I could have actually gotten something substantial. So we sort of use that money as a teaching tool. Almost. Yeah, I'm almost imagining that maybe it'll be $1,000 over their childhood, right. And they'll probably lose it, it'll probably be gone. But that the the lesson will be more valuable than the money. And I have to say like both of my kids are very good with money. Like even if you take art and shopping for clothing and she picks out a couple of items. You'll see at the very end of the shopping trip. She looks at it again and she puts some of it back. It's just very like oh you know what, I picked these three things that I like but as I'm living with them here and wandering around, I realize I just want this one thing to put the other two back. It's, um, it worked out like I should knock on something because it worked out really well. Letting them use it ended up being more valuable than making them save it, because they wouldn't know what they were saving it for, you know,

Grace 1:00:16
what I did the same thing with my kids that my dad did with me was like, you come you, you come up with 50% of the cost of the item that you want. And I'll put in the other 50%

Scott Benner 1:00:34
It's nice. When my son

Grace 1:00:35
left, whether it was closed cars, no matter what cameras, it didn't matter, you know, it's like, here's how it works with me. And I still like that principle because it taught me how to manage money.

Scott Benner 1:00:46
Yeah. Now we did that when, uh, when Cole was leaving, like the middle school age, you know, 1314 he was heading into high school. And he, his hands were getting bigger. And he said, I my hands, not gonna fit in my baseball glove much longer. And he wanted to get a new outfielders glove and a new infielders glove, but they were very expensive. And he's like, I can just get a cheaper one I can afford the cheaper ones, say, but I want to get a good one and use it all through high school. Maybe I can even have it for college. So I said, Okay, look, you pay for half and I'll pay for half and we'll get you good gloves. And he an infielders glove that he got when he was 15 years old, maybe 14 years old. He still wears while he's pitching in college. And it still holds up for him because he has he and now he sees I spent a little extra money I got something of a higher quality. And look. Six years later, I still have it. You know? Yeah, I'm

Grace 1:01:47
all about the quality. Forget the quantity. Give me the quality over the quantity any day. I'd rather you know, hold out and get you know this item. pay a little more for it because I know what's going to lie. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:02:04
I call that the dollar store theory. I would rather have one $500 item than $501 items. Yes, any one thing that I can really sink my teeth into. So how are we doing with your blood sugar? What's going on? Now? I hear I hear rappers.

Grace 1:02:19
I'm having a Welch's fruit snack. Oh, yeah, it's still not great.

Scott Benner 1:02:26
So the CGM still reads lower.

Grace 1:02:30
went down and then yeah, it was weird, because then I was riding at 49. Now it's leveling off at 44 went from 49 to 42. And now it's,

Scott Benner 1:02:44
yeah. Now if you do you think if you feel low, or do you feel

Grace 1:02:49
I'm a little shaky, but I know that it's gonna come back up. Because I've treated it's just with the kasriel preseason. It can take me an hour to come back up to like 93 and then right out at 93 to 102 for a while. Right.

Scott Benner 1:03:05
Wow. Yeah, it's and you dude, like, I'm not asking you to do it again. But do you think if you did a finger stick again, you'd be lower than the 70 some that we got the last time

Grace 1:03:17
we can check it out. Don't mind toasting, for the podcast. Well, just for you guys. I call you Scotty i like i like Scotty you

Scott Benner 1:03:26
do refer to me as as Scotty in your private life, even though we

Grace 1:03:30
do yeah, I listen to Scotty. And they're like who you're talking Star Trek or what?

Scott Benner 1:03:38
Hey, I gotta be honest with the grace. It's way better than that app on taking that.

Grace 1:03:46
Well, a friend of mine. I used to hang out in this group of people. But she's still my friend. Her son was diagnosed at the age of two. And he's camping out with some friends over this one weekend. And all of a sudden I get this phone call. Then you come over we need your Oh, we have. We have Andrew for the weekend. His parents are out of town and like, well, don't panic. I'll be over No. Don't panic. Is he still breathing in and out? Yeah, here we are. It's dropped on. It says it's now at 69 when we had originally tested it was 73.

Scott Benner 1:04:43
So you bounced a little and you're leveling off but drifting back again. Yeah, you could feel that enough that you knew to just have the first tax.

Grace 1:04:54
Yeah, so danger danger will Robin I went to Costco like, I got. I think there's 90 packs. Yeah, there's 90 of Welch's fruit snacks. So I got

Scott Benner 1:05:11
that bill socks if you get that big 40 pound box of food snack. Yeah, I think everybody listening knows that box of fruit snacks. Because when you buy him in the grocery store, you have to end up paying $10 for like 30 packs. I'm it's a ripoff. I mean, it really is. It's not even food. It's just like, whatever it is, you know. But it's interesting, too, because, you know, obviously the gastro priestess is at play. Because those things hit really quickly. I mean, those fruit snacks are there like later

Grace 1:05:45
in the day? If I'm out walking? Yeah, they're gonna get on board quicker, because it might, you know, my body is heated up and I'm moving around. It's going to get into my system more quickly. It's interesting.

Scott Benner 1:06:01
Interesting. Well, I have to be honest, this didn't go any way like I thought it was going to and yet I find it really interesting. And I think people are going to enjoy listening to it.

Grace 1:06:11
I like you engaging with questions. Ask Me Anything that you really want. Yeah. Go ahead.

Scott Benner 1:06:19
Well, no, I appreciate I, you know, obviously I've been trying to, to go a little slower because you're because you're doing what you're doing over there. But I guess I guess my biggest thought is what would you tell people who are diagnosed now with this technology? But don't want it but can't afford it? Like, would you say like, if if I put you in charge of the world? Would everyone who has type one diabetes have this stuff? To the world? Oh, my goodness, I give you the magic wand. Grace, you'd be in charge for a second?

Grace 1:07:00
Yeah, I would definitely. strongly encourage them. Yeah, to consider it. I mean, now, I'm well educated in your, you know, podcasts. Right. I was born with a visual problem. Okay, I live with it all my life. So it's nothing new. So I'm very intent listener. When I listen to, you know, podcasts of all sorts, I retain that information much better than I would if I had read it. Okay. So, I would suggest to them and strongly encourage anybody with, you know, type one diabetes. First of all. Find a good endocrinologist, and get a prescription for an insulin pump with a CGM. Just now I see advertising and I don't have TV at home, I just have, I have a big screen and I play dv DS, but I don't subscribe to any internet. I have internet but I don't have, excuse me. I don't watch cable TV. Okay. I've been watching Internet TV for almost 10 years now. And so I would have seen it here because of where I'm staying there. The labor is encouraging type one and type two people to try their device and giving them a free test drive of it. You know, subscribe to it and test drive it and see if it works for you. You know, doesn't matter what CGM. They're all about the same. They do. You know, every five minutes they test they give you a reading, you can swipe, you can use your phone, you can use your laptop, whatever technology there is, at least try that. You know, and then, you know, maybe an insulin pump would help you because some people are so good at what they do on you know, Lantus and multiple, you know, injections daily, that they would not benefit from it.

Scott Benner 1:09:26
Oh, I agree. No, I know a number of people who are MDI that do have amazing outcomes, and they're really on top of it, but having the technology, I just I was just wondering, because you're a person who has not had it. Plus, you didn't even have insulin that worked well, you know, nearly as well as the insulin you have now. I mean, honestly, Grace's, if no vlog existed 50 years ago. You probably don't have gastroparesis right now. Don't you imagine? The nerves and other nerve issues?

Grace 1:09:56
I would imagine. Yeah, I would have had better tighter control. But I was very liable and brittle from the get go. I was in. I was passed out in DK for a very long time. When they finally got me diagnosed, I mean, it was that severe. My parents had taken me into the clinic three times on the fourth time, I was just gone.

Scott Benner 1:10:21
Yeah. Well, you've read other people's diagnosis stories that are similar to yours, right? They go in, they think it's one thing they think it's another thing. Nobody ever checks your blood sugar. And you know, you get on

Grace 1:10:32
even to this day when I had all the classic symptoms, but my symptoms were not all that classic. And here's the, here's the here's an area. That's questionable. Okay. And it happened with my friend's son, too. He was two years old. I was eight years old, immediately following my vaccines. Right. I became sick. Okay. Yeah. And I got sicker and sicker and sicker and sicker. So vaccines have been linked to autism. They've been linked to other things. But changing, you know, the government's idea of is this a benefit? Or is it? Can it cause problems? Right? How many people in friends of mine, I get this phone call. This was in 2006 565 2005. I get this phone call. Now. This man is a triathlete. He has two daughters, that are very healthy and vibrant and a wonderful wife, this family. And they get back from Germany. And I get this phone call. He's like, Grace, how are you doing? I'm doing pretty good. I said, What's going on? Because he was originally talking to my husband and my husband hands me the phone. And he says, Tim wants to talk to you. So he hands me the phone. I said, Tim, what's going on? Cuz I was, you know, I'm in the kitchen, and we're in the motorhome and I'm cooking up, whatever I'm cooking up. And I could overhear the conversation because it's not a very large space anyway. And I'm nosy. I admit it. So I said, What's, what's going on? He says, I've been diagnosed with type two diabetes. And I thought, No, you don't have type two diabetes. I said, That's impossible. Right? I said, I doubt very seriously, it's type two, they're Miss diagnosing you. Well, they put me on and so they put me in the hospital in Germany is at the base, but we inositol they gave me insulin to bring my blood sugar down. And now they've got me on Metformin. And I don't feel right. Right. He's an athlete. Yeah. You know, he was in the army. And now he's, you know, a contractor with the Department of Defense, or it's just a gang of people that we know, we hung out with. And he, I said to him, I said, Make an appointment with an endocrinologist and ask them to do a C peptide serum on you. By the way, please, please. He says, What is that called? So he said, Denise, write this down. She's got his What? So there's this four way conversation going on? c peptide serum will determine what is actually going on with you. And the next day, I get a phone call. He says yeah, I have type one diabetes. With in 30 days, both daughters were diagnosed with Type One Diabetes. Very active young family. The youngest one was first and then the and I was shocked. So I'm on this flight, and I'm coming back. I think I was going coming back from being somewhere. It's hard to see done a lot of travel. And I ended up having a conversation with a service member. And we just engage in Type One Diabetes conversation. He says yeah, he says we're finding out because I'm I've known several people that have been given 100% disability while in the military when they become type one diabetic, right? Because they're not accepting the responsibility of it. But suspected that certain vaccines can wipe out the eyelids of linger hard, which make the insulin for your body.

Scott Benner 1:15:10
So you think these are vaccines that they're giving? The military members? Maybe? overseas and stuff like that?

Grace 1:15:18
Correct? Yeah, that's Yeah. And it's interesting, but there's also vaccines that we get as children that may be causing it.

Scott Benner 1:15:29
Yeah. And so the, I don't know, obviously, I don't know anything, but I wonder if it's the vaccine causing something or if it's the idea that you're getting vaccines that are causing your body to mount an immune response suddenly to something. And then a lot of doctors offices like to give multiple vaccines at the same time. And I wonder how much how taxing that is on your, your system, you know, to give it all these different, you know, things that it has to mount an immune response to? And if it doesn't take people who already have the markers for type one diabetes and throw them over the edge, it's it's all it's all very interesting. And

Grace 1:16:08
what are markers she that's something I'm unfamiliar with? What who already has these markers, and what are they? Yeah, never. So I've heard that use, but I don't know what that means. Yeah, yeah. There's,

Scott Benner 1:16:19
I'm gonna run out in my head. What people are laughing at me now, we've been on the show a number of times. It's a really common set of words, and I'm just flaking out on

Grace 1:16:34
what has to do with the intercom system. It's something that like, Yeah, well,

Scott Benner 1:16:38
so there's this there's this thing called trial net, right. And, and trial that can, you know, obviously, I'm not a doctor, but they they take a blood sample. And they can tell you, if you have certain markers that indicate that you're more likely to get type one diabetes, and I think there's five I think there's five of them. If I'm if I'm getting this right. And, you know, the more you have, I think it's, the more likely it is that you're going to get type one at some point. And then if you know, then it's up to whatever, like, you'll hear some people will, you know, I got inoculated for something. And then I got type one a little while later, or I got really sick. And then I got type one later, my daughter got coxsackie coxsackievirus. And then we noticed like a month or two later, she had, it seemed like she had it again. And coxsackie is not something that should return. So the possibility exists is that she never really got rid of it. Because when she got coxsackie, maybe her immune system just, you know, ran full steam at her pancreas instead of at the coxsackievirus. I have no idea. But I think I think obviously, Arden had genetic markers that made her more likely to have type one diabetes, and this coxsackie, you know, Firestorm kind of threw her over the edge? So I don't know. Like, I think the way you said it, it's like there's something in the vaccine that makes type one diabetes? I don't, I don't think that's the generally understood, like medical idea, I think the medical idea is, is that it your immune system mounts a response. And then you have these markers already. And it goes after, like you said, your pancreas instead of instead of the thing it's supposed to be taken care of. But again, that's a laypersons understanding of it at best. I'm not nearly an expert on it. But it's still fascinating, you know, that that can happen like that?

Grace 1:18:37
Yeah, you sound you sound proactively protective. In other words, that's really a compliment. It's supposed to be I'm heating up some hot water so that I can help get this food on board because my blood sugar is still not really great.

Scott Benner 1:18:59
We've been at this longer than I expected to be. So I'm, I'd like to like, let me let you go and see you can you can manage yourself and get yourself together. And and you don't have to be worried about me.

Grace 1:19:11
Oh, yeah. Well, I do appreciate your time and taking the time to you know, work with me and interview. I like the stimuli of the questions. I just, you know, what? The idea of the markers See that's new to me. And I although there's another word that is at both our tips of our tongues, we're not able to come up with at the moment, which is fine. It's just interesting to me, because how did you know a father and two daughters end up? Because obviously they had to have something in their system, but they had gotten these vaccines inoculations prior to going overseas.

Scott Benner 1:19:56
Yeah, no, I I really believe that could be the thing that That fast forward the whole thing you should check it out. It's trial net.org. They they explained very clearly there, what they do and what they're testing for and trying to

Grace 1:20:10
sound familiar. Yeah, I don't fit any of the, you know, there's plenty of drug testing trials out there. But when I read all the, you know, qualifications, can you be on this drug trial or this trial or that trial? You know, I don't fit the qualifications for some reason, you

Scott Benner 1:20:30
know, this is just this is like Risk Screening, monitoring and prevention studies like that, that kind of stuff. But yeah, no, check it out sometime. But I want you to take care of yourself first. So I appreciate you doing this. I appreciate you powering through a low blood sugar and letting everybody kind of see it happen. I think it was pretty fascinating. So but I'm gonna let you go so that you can see you can get yourself back to where you want to be.

Grace 1:20:54
I appreciate that. And well, I don't know if you'll actually produce this or not, but hey, everybody out there if I can live through it the way I've lived through it, you know, the dinosaur ages for type one diabetes have changed. Incredibly, over the years crazy.

Scott Benner 1:21:12
You think I'm not gonna let people hear this in your mind. You have to edit it to some extent. I'm not editing this. This was amazing. I you, you were 49 and taking care of yourself with gastroparesis while we were being recorded. I think it's fascinating.

Grace 1:21:30
I think I'm at 65 I'm doing is coming up slowly. It just it just takes a while for I was actually surprised. I didn't think that you know, I would drop again. Hold like that

Scott Benner 1:21:41
lower. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, you go ahead, take care of yourself. And I will I will send you you one day you'll turn your podcast player on you'll be on there.

Grace 1:21:50
Oh, good happen. All right, Scott. Thank you. Have a good day. Thank you to

Scott Benner 1:22:05
a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. Je Vogue glucagon, find out more about chivo hypo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL Uc ag o n.com. forward slash juice box. I'd also like to thank the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, find out more and get started@dexcom.com forward slash juice box and of course, a huge thank you to grace for sharing this very personal look into her life with Type One Diabetes.

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