Scott Benner 9/26/24 Scott Benner 9/26/24

#1316 Cold Wind: Med Device Sales

Mia has type 1 diabetes and does medical device sales. Her voice has been changed and her identiy concealed.

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Scott Benner 0:00
OmniPod, Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of The juicebox podcast.

My guest today, of course, is anonymous, and her voice has been changed to protect her identity. She is a person who has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. We're going to be calling her Mia today for the conversation, and she works from medical device company in sales, nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan when you place your first order for ag one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. Ag one.com/juice, box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juicebox at checkout. That's juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com if you'd like to help with type one diabetes research, and you have type one diabetes, or you're the caregiver of someone with type one and you're a US resident, all you have to do is go to T 1d exchange.org/juicebox and complete the survey. This should take you about 10 minutes, and your answers will, in fact, help to move type one diabetes research forward. This episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by us Med, US med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514, us. Med is where my daughter gets her diabetes supplies from, and you could too use the link or number to get your free benefits check and get started today with us. Med, this episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour. Next.com/juicebox Did you know if just one person in your family has type one diabetes, you're up to 15 times more likely to get it too. So screen it like you mean it one blood test. Can spot type one diabetes early, tap now talk to a doctor or visit screened for type one.com for more info. Mia, excellent. Mia, it's nice to meet you, so let's find out a little bit about you, and then we'll figure out why you got on the podcast, and we'll do some chitting and chatting. Why are you here? What made you reach out?

'Mia' 2:43
I think that it is so fascinating to listen to people's stories, their diagnosis stories, and I feel like Mine's kind of different. I mean, maybe it's not, but it seems, for me, it seems different. And I just wanted to share that talk with you know, parents and let them know that their kids are going to be okay. Okay. I think that that's some of the things I listen to and see on the Facebook pages. And, you know, parents obviously are concerned and have every right to be having had diabetes for 30 plus years now, and the way it's evolved, and it's fantastic that we know so much, but I just wanted to be, I don't know, maybe a sound of encouragement for parents to let them know that their kids would

Scott Benner 3:23
be okay. That's very nice. So you've had diabetes for most of your adult life.

'Mia' 3:28
Yes, I was a teenager when I was diagnosed. At that time, 30 plus years ago, we didn't have CGMS or pumps and all that stuff. And yeah, started with NPH and regular had to mix my insulin in syringes. But in fact, I've actually never, ever taken insulin with a pen, because they didn't exist before I got on my first insulin pump, and I've been a pumper ever since, and I've never taken a pump break. So yeah, I've never taken insulin, which is company

Scott Benner 3:59
Martin has never used an insulin pen once. Oh yeah, we got this giant box of insulin needles. And the truth is, is that we use them for, I mean, she was diagnosed at two, so we used them when she was two, when she was three, and then the year she was four, four and a half, she got an OmniPod. And we have, we still can't believe I'm saying this. That was in so 2006 she was diagnosed. We probably stopped using needles in 2008 ish, and we're still going through those needles now.

'Mia' 4:35
Oh yeah, I had boxes of them. And so we move every couple of years with my husband's job, and I finally, literally just got rid of them in this last move. That's so funny.

Scott Benner 4:52
I every time I see them in the drawer, I think, oh my god, I'm gonna die, and these are still gonna be in this drawer.

'Mia' 4:59
You. Yeah. And then just at my last doctor's appointment, I was like, you know, I really need to have a backup supply of, you know, long lasting insulin. And so, of course, you know, he sent me some. And then I got three boxes, three boxes of needles that came with it.

Scott Benner 5:17
Came with it. Uh huh, we don't have any long acting insulin in a vial in this house. And we never have after Arden started pumping, and my wife, once a year, looks at me and says, Don't you think it would be a good idea if we had some basal insulin here, in case something happens to her pump, and I go, there's a pharmacy up the street. I always say the same thing. I'm always like, there's a pharmacy up the street. We have a doctor. It's 2000 whatever it is, we can just send an email or call somebody. I'm like, I don't think it's that important. And she goes, What if it happens in the middle of the night? And I go, well, we'll just inject fast acting until until then. And then she looks very disappointed at me. And then we don't talk about it for about a year. Well,

'Mia' 5:59
I have to say I haven't had it for a really long time either, and it's probably only because of our new kind of living situation that, now that I'm by myself a lot of the time, that I felt like I needed to be more proactive and have that so because I was just like, oh, I'll just use an old pump, you know, if my current pump goes bad, then I'll just Use one of my old models that I still have in a box. I'm like, Oh, I'll be fine. But now that I'm by myself for a lot of the time, I was like, I really need to be a little bit more proactive.

Scott Benner 6:30
I'm going to say one more thing, but then I'll get back to that for you. So we literally just two days ago, had this thing happen where Arden's been riding a phone for a very long time trying to keep it going because she liked the color and, you know, like, and I'm like, Arden, listen, you know, using an algorithm, you know, a do it yourself algorithm, like it lives on your phone, like, we can't have your phone be this just terrible, like, janky thing, like, it needs to be stable. So she finally said, okay, you know, I think you're right. I think we should replace this phone. Okay, so we have two things to do two days ago. We're gonna get our eyebrows threaded, her and I together, and then we were thinking of coming home and hanging out for a little bit. I was gonna do some work, and then we were gonna go out to the Apple store and get her a new phone. And so it's this, you know, it's kind of how we had the day planned out. So we go get threaded. I look fantastic, by the way. And then we came back, and we, like, seriously, pulled up to our home, and she's like, so when are we going to do the phone? I'm like, I don't know, a few hours from now or something. She goes, Oh, that's great, you know, because my pump is going to expire in a couple of hours, and like, match it up. Oh my god, it's fantastic. I swear to you, sitting in the car, she tried to give herself insulin for something, and there was an error in the pump, and it shut off. Oh no. And so we looked at each other, and I said, Oh, I guess we're gonna go get that phone right now. And because, because she was like, oh god, what's gonna happen here? I said, Oh, you're gonna go in the house, put on a pod. We're gonna go to the store, we're gonna come back with the phone, and you're gonna have to swap the pod again. And she's like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. I said, Do you trust me? And she goes, why? And I said, Let's go inside, take off the pod, and I'm gonna, like, her blood sugar was like, 130 It was exactly 130 that's why we were bolusing. I was like, I think if we inject, and I was like, Oh, the mall, like, 20 minutes from here, and it'll probably take us, like, 45 minutes to get the phone and then come home, like two hours. I'm like, Let's inject a unit and a half of insulin, and then just go. And she goes, All right, so we go in the house, and I pull out the insulin into the needle, and I'm like, No, you know what? Let's do two. I'm gonna do three. And she goes, How did you go from a unit and a half to three units? And she says, I didn't see you do any math at all. And I was like, I'm like, Well, I mean, the insulin is not really gonna start working for 20 minutes or so, and it's not going to peak for a while, and you're already 130 and we're going to walk around the mall a little bit. And I was like, let's just do these three units. And she goes, whatever, man, let's go. So we just injected the three units, and we left for them all, and we came home, and I downloaded the app onto her phone and got it all set up and everything. And, you know, the Dexcom, we were able to, like, you know, get going and everything's going. We tested her, and she was 98 oh, and I didn't say anything, because when she was younger, I might have celebrated for a second, but like, now I just was like, okay, like, just let her soak up that I was that you were right, so incredibly right about this, you know, anyway, why don't you live near home anymore?

'Mia' 9:43
With my husband's job, we move often, and when we got to this new place, there were no positions available. I'm a dietician and a diabetes educator. The only dietician jobs that I could find were working at a nursing. Home, okay, and I started to do that. I got a job, and it just wasn't for me. I really love diabetes technology. I love teaching people how to use it, and I had wanted to work for a specific pump company for a while. Told my husband that I was going to try for it, and he was on board, and lo and behold, I got the position

Scott Benner 10:25
from the very beginning. Your kids mean everything to you. That means you do anything for them, especially if they're at risk. So when it comes to type one diabetes screen, it like you mean it, because even if just one person in the family has it, your child is up to 15 times more likely to get it too. Screen it like you mean it, because type one diabetes can develop at any age, and once you get results, you can get prepared for your child's future. So screen it like you mean it. Type one starts long before there are symptoms, but one blood test could help you to spot it early before they need insulin, and could lower the risk of serious complications like diabetic ketoacidosis or DKA. Talk to your doctor about how to screen for type one diabetes, because the more you know, the more you can do. So don't wait, tap now or visit screen for type one.com to learn more. Again, that screen for type one.com screen, it like you mean it.

'Mia' 11:26
And so now I have an apartment in one part of the state, and I'm in the other state, so I have

Scott Benner 11:33
that. Do you think that right now, people listening are going, huh? They won't say her name and her voice has been altered. I wonder what's about to happen, because I have to tell you something. I don't know what you're going to say, and I am absolutely sitting on spokes. Do you know that one?

'Mia' 11:54
It's not so much. I think, like there's nothing with the company. It's just my satisfaction, and my eyes were opened to how big, basically, it's still a pharma company, right? There's still money that needs to be made. And my ideal was that I was going to be able to go and teach people how to use their product and walk away and have, like, a relationship with the patients. And yes, sometimes I still can, but that's not the focus, okay, that's not the focus of the company. I mean, it is, don't get me wrong, they it's a fantastic company, but it's just more than it's not, it's not what I was hoping to do. I'm still expected to, you know, be in front of providers asking for the sale, which, of course, that's what they need, right? I don't want for companies to not make money, because if they don't make money, then they're not going to create good products. And if they don't create good products, who's going to suffer me, right? I'm going to be the one that's, that's, you know, I'm suffering in that situation, and so I understand all of that from a financial point of view, but I really wanted to just focus on patient care, and that's not necessarily truly the case. Okay,

Scott Benner 13:13
so I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about here. So first of all, I'm laughing, because in my head, I think the all the pump companies just heard that, like, oh, hopefully she'll say something that indicates it's not us. The truth is very likely that this would apply to any device manufacturer or pharma company or anything like in the end, like at the end of the chain, right from scientist, engineer thinking something up to, you know, finance guys going out in the world and getting money to, you know, put it together, and the years and time, and the FDA approval and everything that happens to get it out to market. The end of that chain is sales. It does not help if they created the greatest whatever in the world, if nobody knows about it. And you know, insulin pumps are already not as widely adopted among type ones as you would imagine they are.

'Mia' 14:03
Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, our biggest competition is not the other pump companies. It's the patients on MDI. Are multiple daily injections. And so that's really who they're, who they're trying to compete with, compete with, you know, and that is totally fine, and all of that is good to do, but I wanted to be able to go in and talk with the patient and provide the education and let them know, you know, hey, this is, you know, this is what we what we can do. This is how I can help you go to the providers and say, Look, this is where they're at. This is what I can do. But I'm not. I'm not able to do things clinically. I can't make insulin recommendations, like if the doctor asks me, then yes, I can provide that information, but if they don't, and they don't want to follow back. Up or anything like that. Then, then I can't say anything. But

Scott Benner 15:03
now that's not your company's rule, right? That's FDA, isn't it?

'Mia' 15:07
Yes, exactly. I mean, it is, it's, it's, it's, I am. I'm there to teach the patient how to use their product,

Scott Benner 15:14
the buttons, and what this means and what this menu does, and etc, but exactly

'Mia' 15:19
and how to use it, but not to clinically manage. And yes, it's, it's more of a FDA, I don't know for sure that's an FDA thing, but it's, it's, we're not allowed to because, basically, we're not prescribing, right? We're not able to prescribe, so we can't, we can't manage patients clinically, right? So I really missed that more than I thought I was going

Scott Benner 15:42
to. You knew that was going to happen right when you took the job. I did

'Mia' 15:46
know that it was going to happen, but I guess I just didn't know how many people would be asking me, and how many providers necessarily don't know how to do pump setting.

Scott Benner 15:56
Okay, so now we're getting into it. So you thought this is a great job like, I want to support a company that, you know, supports people with type one diabetes. I can use my degree and my knowledge to help then you, you know, apply for the job. Obviously, you start to understand that this is not exactly, you know, you're not gonna be able to use your your talents that way. But there's other, plenty of other ways I'll be good with this until you get into a room over and over again with a clueless doctor and a person in need, and you have to sit there with a Barbie look on your face and go, I'm sorry, but I can't answer that question. Yes, and that's soul crushing. Soul crushing. Yeah, the contour next gen blood glucose meter is sponsoring this episode of The juicebox podcast, and it's entirely possible that it is less expensive in cash than you're paying right now for your meter through your insurance company. That's right. If you go to my link, contour, next.com/juicebox you're going to find links to Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, Rite, aid, Kroger and Meyer, you could be paying more right now through your insurance for your test strips in meter than you would pay through my link for the contour next gen and contour next test strips in cash. What am I saying? My link may be cheaper out of your pocket then you're paying right now, even with your insurance. And I don't know what meter you have right now. I can't say that, but what I can say for sure is that the contour next gen meter is accurate. It is reliable, and it is the meter that we've been using for years, contour next.com/juice box. And if you already have a contour meter and you're buying test strips, doing so through the juicebox podcast link will help to support the show. I have always disliked ordering diabetes supplies. I'm guessing you have as well. It hasn't been a problem for us for the last few years, though, because we began using us Med, you can to us med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514, to get your free benefits. Check us. Med has served over 1 million people living with diabetes since 1996 they carry everything you need, from CGMS to insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies and more. I'm talking about all the good ones, all your favorites, libre three, Dexcom, g7 and pumps like OmniPod five, OmniPod dash, tandem, and most recently, the I let pump from beta bionics, the stuff you're looking for, they have it at us. Med, 888-721-1514, or go to us. Med.com/juice box. To get started now use my link to support the podcast. That's us med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514,

'Mia' 18:53
it is. It's. I mean, it really is. It's so hard to watch this happen and patients don't know what they don't know, I'm trying to then teach them how to use a product, how to advocate for themselves, and how to like like, lead them in a way. Ask your doctor about changing this setting. Ask your doctor about, you know, making adjustments to you know this or that, and if they're able to one, remember that two have the time with their provider when they go back in again to do that. And it's just, it's so it's so hard to watch and be a part of it breaks my heart. And then they're asking me specifically, what would you do in this situation, and

Scott Benner 19:41
then you go, I can't answer that question. Yeah. Or do you ever get like, Listen, you start whispering. Do you go, here's what I would do to make the insulin sensitivity like, three points more aggressive. Now, aggressive is a lower number. I know that's crazy here. Like, do you ever like, do. The thing you're not supposed to do. No comment.

'Mia' 20:04
I strongly tell them, like, you can make the changes when, when I leave this room, and like, if you know how to make the changes you and you've talked to your doctor, you know I always have to tell them to talk to their doctor. Always, always. I mean, I haven't given them specific numbers on that, because I, one, I don't want to lose my job, and two, just, I just can't do that.

Scott Benner 20:28
So, but the system has it set up so that a person like yourself who could really be valuable to this, this other person's life. We're now with them. We got them the tools. We taught them what the buttons do, and what we need now are three more sentences to really straighten this person's life up with diabetes, give them control and better health and all of this stuff, take away the anxiety, etc, all of that. It's all right there. And then we just, we're not allowed to do that, yeah? So that that doesn't happen. Then what happens? They go back. Do you even see them again after that? No,

'Mia' 21:03
I call them or I text them a few days later, make sure that the product is working correctly and that they don't have any questions about it. If they have any blood sugar questions, I have to direct them back to their doctor. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 21:17
was gonna say that caller text is a sales tactic, right? It's a the company really cared about me, the person called back,

'Mia' 21:24
it might be, I mean, I don't know. I mean, maybe that's how it came across. I mean, for myself, I really genuinely care about them, and I really want to make sure they're doing okay. I

Scott Benner 21:33
don't doubt that, but your company, but part of your process is to follow up, yes, and if you actually can't. So basically the follow up is, do you know where all the buttons are? And, yeah, and, but there I'm telling you that from a sale like, probably from a sales perspective, their takeaway is, company B really cares about me. After I got all set up, they, they the lovely woman I met. She called back and tried one more and checked on me. And so I get that, because it really is, but you know what it's like to be me? How about that? I didn't realize that.

'Mia' 22:04
Yeah, I know exactly, and I've thought about you many of times, because I know you've talked about trying to get into, like a hospital setting to provide education for people, and then as soon as they find out you don't have credentials that, they just say no, right? And so I really, I really feel for you and that situation. I mean, you have a fantastic platform, and you know how to help people you know, and your hands are tied sometimes. And so with me having having the credentials of an RD and a diabetes educator, I have to be really careful, because I could lose my credentials. I should have those taken away. And so I don't want for that to happen at all. And yeah, so I'm, I've, I've determined that I'm going to go back to school and I'm going to become a PA, a physician assistant, so I can't do those things nice so, but that's, that's what I Well, I'm in the process of applying. Hopefully, I could get into a school for PA, for PA school, okay? Because then I could actually answer the questions. I could help manage patients clinically. I could help, you know, write scripts for patients. I could adjust settings, you know, I could do all of those things where my hands are tied at this point, but

Scott Benner 23:24
you couldn't, even if you're a PA, you can't do it through that job you have now, though, no, no, right, yeah, no. Meaning, if those companies hired pas, they'd still be restricted the same way you are. Right?

'Mia' 23:37
Yes. So we have to take our clinical hat off and put on our, like, training hat, so and so that was, you know. And of course, they were telling you all this in training. And, you know, the training was fantastic. You know, all of that is there. And they tell you all of that stuff, but it's just, I guess I just didn't really, day to day how much it would impact me in those situations.

Scott Benner 24:02
Yeah, so when I jump on this podcast and I say something that sounds outlandish, like I figured out a way to help people, but I'm tormented by the fact that I can't reach more people. You understand what I'm saying, whereas I think there's sometimes people would hear that and just go, he just wants this podcast to be bigger so we can sell more ads, or something like that. But that's not really how I feel. Like what i you i just feel like, wow, we found a way to help people. It works, and now there's always another step. Well, how do you get it to them? And for you, it's I found the person they're here. They've got this amazing device, they've got clinical care, they have everything they need except the the map to put all of it into play. They just don't know how to do that. I know this is going to be just, you know, not accurate, but every 10 doctors you meet, how many of them are good at setting up pumps?

'Mia' 24:52
Maybe two or three.

Scott Benner 24:55
Are they generally type ones or not necessarily?

'Mia' 24:58
No, they're not necessarily. And. Seen it. I shouldn't say they don't know how to push the buttons, because there's they're just too they're they're too busy doing other things, taking care of the patient. So that's where we come in. But the ones that know how to do the settings, they're very few and far between, like know how to really understand what's going on the settings and why you want to have a duration at this point, or, you know, duration of insulin action time for this or that, and you know the ins and outs of things. And the pediatric doctors probably know that a lot better, because they're probably dealing more with the type ones. But if for adult patients that are type one, they necessarily don't, don't have a provider that necessarily knows that. I mean, some do, but not often based

Scott Benner 25:50
on your interactions to an outsider, right? Who doesn't have diabetes isn't a doctor, they would look at this scenario and say, This doesn't make any sense that an endocrinologist is specifically to help people with endocrine issues. Diabetes is a big part of their job. Probably. How is it possible? I always use the same thing, like, example, over and over again, but like, you don't go to a tire place to buy tires and expect to find a person is like, Man, I know what the lug gun does, but I'm not real comfortable getting the tire on and off of the wheel like that. So we're gonna have to bring in someone from the tire company to do that part. But then I'm gonna send you home and put the tires back on your car yourself, because I don't want to get involved in that. I'm not very good at that part. Like it's a crazy thing. Is it not like, did you think? Listen, you've had diabetes forever, so I imagine you've had a couple of endos along the way, and probably a couple of good ones. But did you really think that when you got in here it was going to be, you were going to find what you found? No, I

'Mia' 26:51
had no idea that it was going to be the to this extent. To this extent, yeah. Okay,

Scott Benner 26:55
so based on your experience when I started up the Grand Rounds series this year. By the way, I got mostly people, people with type one you know, were, were mostly like, Oh, this is great. Like, this is the stuff doctors should be telling us. And but I still got my fair share of like, oh, when you started that doctor bashing series, I was like, again, if the guy couldn't get the tires back in my car, and I went and told people, hey, look, I wouldn't go to this tire place. Like, I didn't even know how to use the lug gun. He doesn't know how to get the tires. Doesn't know how to get the tires off the wheels, and he doesn't know how to put them. Like, I wouldn't be tire bashing. I'd be leaving a reasonable review of a person who told me they were going to swap my tires. But then in the end, we're like, I can't really do that for you. So like, I don't see it that way. And I also think that people must think that like, oh, Scott's taking an example from like, one person's story, but most of the doctors out there probably really know what they're doing. He's finding the ones who don't to make a point. And I'm not. I, first of all, people just tell their stories and up to me what they're gonna say when they come on the podcast. I don't stop people from coming on here based on how they manage, how they eat, what they think, nothing. People just come on, as a matter of fact, Mia, I am still waiting for someone just to get on this podcast and be like, You're an asshole, and I came on to talk about it. I'm like, All right, cool. Like, I'd be like, fine, whatever, you know, but like, point being is that I'm not filtering who's coming on, and I'm not filtering what's going out you guys here within, you know, a couple of like, crazy things that have happened over the years every recording I make, right? And overall, people don't come on to say, My God, my doctor's fantastic. What a lovely person. And you should see my five and AFA one saying, I know how to bolus for French fries, and I know how to bolus for being low carb. That's not what happens. So three out of 10 maybe?

'Mia' 28:41
Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.

Scott Benner 28:45
So is that part of what makes you hate the job? You do hate the job, right? It's

'Mia' 28:49
a really strong word. I love when I get to to work with the patients, it's a lot of the extra stuff, the sales. You know that part of it, I don't, I don't care for I just want to help patients get better and teach them. I would love to be able to just say, Okay, this is how we're going to make the adjustments. Give me two weeks with them, and you know, then I could help them 100% give them more education, how you bolus for this, how you bowl this for that. But that's just not, that's not how it's done, that's not how we function. And so it makes it it just makes it really hard, makes it really challenging. And you know, why

Scott Benner 29:30
do you think you have that knowledge? Is it because of your professional background, because of your diabetes life? Is it a mix? Why I think it's

'Mia' 29:38
a mix? I mean, before you know, I've been a dietitian for a long time, but didn't get enough hours working professionally to become a CD diabetes educator until 2018 I started progressing in my my my jobs, and I worked in urban clinics, and I've worked in rural clinics. And I've seen just a lot of different backgrounds, of people dealing with diabetes, you know, I've had patients that are homeless, and I've had patients that are living in shelters, and patients that live out in the middle of nowhere and don't have access to the internet, you know, and so, so it's just all of those things. So it's just really tried to drive me to figure out, you know, how to help them the best, and just listening to their stories and reading and following people and watching things you know, just kind of makes me want to learn more about how I can help people. So yeah, I think it would be a combination of both. And then my experiences with not having technology at the beginning, and how we functioned, and how much better my control has gotten over the years, because I've made changes and because I've done things differently. I think that's kind of where I get a lot of my knowledge

Scott Benner 30:57
from my point in bringing that up is that, I mean, I could easily, like, turn my hat around right and argue well, even if they were allowed to give this information, it would be incredibly difficult to train up that many people to actually be able to disseminate that information well and leave people with a firm understanding, especially in short visits, even if it was over a couple of weeks. But as I would argue that away, I would tell you, like, you know, I help people, and I don't even know who they are. Like, I don't, I don't see them, I don't know their situation. And yet, a grand amount of people come out of this podcast with something, an idea, you know, that helps them pull things together. I think that's the disconnect, is that idea that that what you're trying to do is turn all the dobs exactly where they belong, explain to them exactly how to cover all their food and what to do in all the situations. And people would say, Well, I can't possibly do that. I can't explain every food choice. I can't explain activity versus not activity. I can't explain to them when to take off their pump to go swimming if they're on a tube pump, but don't forget to put it back on because, you know, like all the little details that you feel like you need to know, I think that a company or academics could get held up thinking if I don't leave them with a firm understanding of every one of these myriad of variables, then we can't say anything. And what I've learned is that if you explain to them properly that it's really all about the timing and amount of insulin they're using, and that that idea applies to everything from activity to food to inactivity and etc, then they can have these experiences in their life. They learn from it, and before you know it, they wake up a few months later and like, yeah, my a, 1c, like, six, two, and I don't get low very often, crazy, I swear to you, yeah, you're all overthinking it, yeah, it's timing and amount, that's it. Yeah?

'Mia' 32:57
I mean, I agree, and I think that, you know, people are afraid of insulin, right? I mean, you have well, so it's a huge, a huge issue. So I think one we have to think about, where do patients go for their care, right? They aren't able to get in to see endocrinologists because there's not enough endocrinologists around. The wait is six months, right? Some places longer, other places, they can't get there because they don't live close enough. I mean, so there's all of those issues, right? The access to care, all of that is so then they're going to the primary care doctors, and the primary care doctors don't have enough time, or they don't have the specialty knowledge about diet insulin, so they're giving people a fixed dose, right? They're giving them here take eight units with this meal, you know, every day. Well, that might work for a meal that has, you know, some carbohydrates, and, you know, maybe a minimal amount, depending on what their ratio is. But nobody's figuring that out for them. Nobody's telling them that. They're just saying, Take this amount. Yeah, well, all it takes is one instance where they take, you know, the amount of insulin, and maybe they only have a salad, right? So they have a salad, and then they have a really scary low. And so then it's,

Scott Benner 34:08
they still think they're eight units like they're told to do it a meal, right? Exactly,

'Mia' 34:12
and it's too much, right? So then they're afraid to take insulin because they had this really bad low experience. And think it's just the insulin fault? Well, I mean, yes, it was because of insulin, but it's not just insulins. Because you weren't told to eat enough food to cover that, or you were told to take this fixed dose, and that's all you take, right? And so then the patient ends up at the bad low and then they don't want to take any insulin, and

Scott Benner 34:37
that's it. So everyone who's given incomplete understanding is eventually going to run into a scary incident, and that scary incident is very likely going to stop them from taking as much insulin as they need. And then you tumble down that rabbit hole to health issues, right,

'Mia' 34:54
exactly. And I just feel so strongly for those patients that something has. To be done better. We have to treat them better, right? They have to have better access to knowledge, to technology, to care, and that is where it, just like breaks my heart, that those people that went I don't mean that those people in a bad way, but people that are in a situation where they are only have access to their primary care doctor, and they only get 10 minutes with them at a visit, and they have other things going on as well, but Plus, they're trying to manage their insulin levels, our insulin amounts. And it's, it's just, it's a nightmare. It's,

Scott Benner 35:32
what's the answer? What's the answer? Yeah, you don't know. You don't know, right? You're in the middle of the fight. You don't know the exact answer. Well, my thought is

'Mia' 35:40
that, you know patients, they just need more education, right? We totally need education. But then how do we? How do we give that to them? How do we, how do we have time for them? So my goal is to hopefully be able to be a PA where I can work in a primary care clinic and take all of their diabetes patients be the diabetes specialist for them in their primary care clinic, and take the time to see them and offer education classes. But diabetes doesn't pay, right? So that's the other thing. Is that insurance doesn't necessarily reimburse for providers very much. Those diagnoses may not bring in as much money. Diabetes educators don't bring in a lot of money, so it's all of that stuff together that really, I think is such a I don't know the right words, but it just makes me upset.

Scott Benner 36:30
I know you, I could tell you're flustered and it is upsetting. Listen, I'm upset by it every day. So fair enough. We should spread it around on other people a little bit. Do you really think that's going to happen? Like, are you going to take the time to become a PA and then go out in the world and find a bunch of doctors? Are going to be like, Look, I can't afford to pay you because I can't build that well, and I can't let you spend that much time with people because I can't bill it. And aren't you just going to get flustered again?

'Mia' 36:57
I might. I may. I mean, very well. I talked with my husband about this all the time. He's like, Are you sure you want to do this? You're gonna run into the same situation where people aren't being able to pay and, you know, or whatever. And I said, Yeah, but I said, I can't stay in healthcare and not have the ability to do the next step. Here's

Scott Benner 37:17
another potential problem. So you'll eventually say, Okay, well, I'll help the people who can afford it, and then you're gonna realize that you're only helping a certain sector of people, and then it's gonna get right back in your head, like, well, all those other people who were disenfranchised that I wanted to help before, I'm not helping them now, because I can't spend the time, because they can't pay and nothing changed. I just made a lot of middle aged, white ladies better.

'Mia' 37:43
Yes, I do think about that. Yeah. I mean, I really, I mean, in a perfect world, I would be able to help, you know, everybody, obviously, I think us as caregivers and people that know this information, they want to do that. And so yes, I may have very high in the sky ideal attitude about all of this, about how I can help people, but I mean, surely there's got to be something better. There's got to be a way. And if I don't stop what I'm doing and try and make that difference, then how do I expect anybody else to do

Scott Benner 38:19
that? No, I don't listen. First of all, you should absolutely put your effort where it makes you fulfilled, and you're not going to save everybody. I was playing devil's advocate a little bit, but it's true, because

'Mia' 38:29
I'm in my, you know, I'm in my midlife, and I'm about to maybe embark on this huge financial commitment of taking on going to PA school. I mean, it's not going to be cheap. And are we willing to do that? And hopefully I can get finished, and then, you know, as as long as my husband is still working, you know, I'll be able to pay off the school loans, because I don't have 100 grand just sitting around to pay for it. May

Scott Benner 38:53
I say something, this isn't directed at you, but like, help me spitball this idea. So my podcast is very popular, okay? And it's popular, because people come on and talk about all the things that you just outlined that people need to know, that nobody's able to talk about in a clinical setting, right? And that hurts people, but it also hurts the company selling the stuff, because what the rest of you don't understand, that I'm guessing Mia knows is that you put this like state of the art pump in someone's hand, and they go home and they don't know how to use it well, and then when their blood sugars get low or high or they bounce around, what they say is, this thing doesn't work. They don't say, I don't know how to do diabetes. I don't understand how insulin works. My Settings are all wrong. My doctor sucks. They just say, this pump I just got, it doesn't work. It's supposed to keep my blood sugar stable, and it doesn't. And then eventually those people will leave that pump, try a different pump, or to go back to MDI, or whatever they're going to do. Wouldn't it make sense for pump companies to start like to fund? To another business full of people like you to go help people, because, in the end, that's part of the reason why some of them buy ads on my podcast, because if they keep this podcast going, then people understand management better, and they're more likely to stick with their stuff once they have it.

'Mia' 40:17
Oh, I agree with you. 100% Yeah, 100%

Scott Benner 40:19
I don't, by the way, I don't think of that as a dirty secret of the podcast. I think it's pretty obvious, if you pay attention to it, but, but that's one of my value points for advertisers, is that as long as I'm making this podcast, a mass amount of people who are likely going to find their products are going to know how to use them and stay on them. Oh yeah. I mean, I don't know, like, I don't want to spend other people's money. I don't know how much these companies make, right? And some of them make crazy money, and some of them don't. But if you took a couple of percent of your of your money and started it's, it doesn't even have to be a brick and mortar business, right? You just hire a bunch of people like you, and then after you put them on the pump, say, Look, we have this other business over here. It's, you know, it's healthcare provided your will take your insurance. If we don't take your insurance, you can, you know, you can submit afterwards, like make it easy for them, and basically do what Jenny does for a living, except, except have a bigger company behind it. Oh,

'Mia' 41:15
yeah, I agree with you 100% because what I see is providers then don't have time to make all those setting adjustments all the time, right? And some participations need to be seen more frequently than the providers can see them for those adjustments and tweaks and teaching them how to use, you know, extended boluses if they're going to do that, or, you know, just whatever, whatever it is,

Scott Benner 41:42
yeah, sometimes it's about having a conversation. Sometimes it's about jumping on a call for 15 minutes and just saying, Look, you know, we keep having this meal and it keeps going poorly. Can I just walk you through it so personally the other end can go, wait, wait, stop. Did you say this? Oh, yeah, you should have maybe thought about that, and, you know, or we could have extended this longer or made a larger bolus here. Or have you tried going for a walk after you eat? Like, all the things that a person's not going to think of that you could, like, you see it happen in my Facebook group constantly, right? Like, there's, by the way, there's a reason, there's a reason that the podcast is super popular, and so is the Facebook group. And it's because people, in the beginning listen to the podcast. They listen to me talk about diabetes. They upped their game. Then they got into a space, and they were like, Oh, I'll answer these people's questions. It's see one, teach one, but digitally. Yeah, exactly right. No, no, trust me, I know I got this whole thing worked out. Just nobody listens to me. Well, the people listen, listen. I'm talking. You know what I'm saying anyway. So like, you go into the group and you say this, like, I don't know, like, I had this happen, and I don't know what to do. And every once in a while, like a like a keyboard Crusader, will come in and be like, you could just search the group for that answer. And I come in and I say, No, don't do that. Like, you want this conversation to happen, because, from an outsider perspective, have a limited understanding of what I see, as far as the numbers are. So like, when someone posts something and you think, Oh God, this is asked and answered 10 times in here already. Like, just search. I don't want anybody searching. I want the conversation to happen over and over again. Because what you don't see, you know, from the outside, you'll see, you know, four people having a conversation. Five more people come in. In the end, you think, oh, there's nine people here. What a waste of time. Blah, blah, blah. I've seen this conversation a million times. You can't see what I see, which is how many people see the posts? And it's 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of people. Yeah. So you have that conversation over and over again. Now you're helping a person who never asked the question, didn't have to answer in the Facebook group, didn't have to even like, like, put their hand up and say, I don't understand. And they walk away with the knowledge. They take it back to their house. They try it a few times till it works, and then they're good. And it's just, it's so freaking simple. It's frustrating to me. Look at me. Your your frustration is now on me. God damn it, and it's early, it's gonna ruin my whole day. I'll tell you that right now.

'Mia' 44:06
Sorry, sorry. It's just been like, you see it over and over and over again. And, you know, I have people that will ask me about, like, I, you know, my own Facebook group, but usually during the month of November, I'll post stuff about, you know, Diabetes Awareness. Over the years, people have come up to me or, you know, sent me messages, like, I just saw this doctor, and they told me my a 1c, was 9.5 and they refused to give me test strips. They don't want me to check my blood sugar. They just want me to come back in three months with, you know, they put me on Metformin, and I'm like, You need to check your blood sugar. Well, they won't give me a meter. I'm like, well, then you need to ask for one. So, you know? And I'm trying to teach people how to advocate for themselves and how to how to do all these things. I'm like, why are we waiting three months? Why are we all. The patient who has an A 1c of 9.5 wait three months and just hope that Metformin works. Low

Scott Benner 45:05
expectation. Having motherfers is a thing I heard in a movie one time. Yeah, I don't know what it's from, but that's it like, I

'Mia' 45:13
mean, their blood sugar is already so high, right? A 9.5 what they're sitting at, I don't know. I can't even remember all the numbers and what they equate to. But just like, that's just not fair for that person to have to wait three months. And we know that Metformin, yes, it is the first line of defense, but once you're higher than, you know, nine, I think that I can't remember the standards off the top of my head, but you know, you're supposed to start all these other things, if not before

Scott Benner 45:41
well. So the problem is, is that everyone's limited. So everyone has it, everyone every touch point you have with a person, right? Is a person who works for somebody and is limited by something. I'm the only one who's not limited, because nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult your physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. So there. So now I come on and I say, Look, this is what I do with my daughter, or I interview you. And I say, Hey, tell me what you did, and you tell me, and then other people hear it. This is the only current outlet that is actually able to say things out loud that people might find valuable. And you, you can say to them, like, I'm going to treat you like an adult here, like everyone's not going to understand. I get that over and over again. God, for years I've been saying this. You can't not tell everybody the secret, because you think some of them won't understand it. Because it's not that big of a secret. It's, it's the amount of insulin, and when you use it, timing and amount, timing and amount in every situation. I swear to God, I haven't said this in a long time. Everybody would be mad at me if this happened, but the podcast should be four minutes long. It should be music and me introducing myself and going, Hey, everything about your insulin use is timing and amount. Apply that to every situation. I'll see you later. That's it, right? Obviously, there's more details, and you can have bigger conversations, and that's where people learn, right? It's campfire stories, like you tell the campfire stories. That's how people learn and but the fact that you have so many people, it's your doctor who doesn't know or is limited by time or knowledge. It's the nurse practitioner who doesn't know, or is limited by time, by knowledge. It's the fact that the pump company can't help you, your CGM manufacturer is not going to speak to you about any of this like there's everyone has set themselves up in an insulated bubble where they're not in charge of telling you how to actually use this stuff, and therefore there's no one in charge of that, right? And so then what? Then? My point is, what's the rush? Two months? Three months, come back? What's it matter? They're never gonna figure that out like so it doesn't matter. That's where the horror is in this idea that your pancreas stopped functioning the way that it's supposed to You are now on a different life trajectory than other people. You don't get to be as healthy as everybody else you lost. That's how you get treated, and that's my biggest problem with it. Not, yeah, you don't even 100%

'Mia' 48:11
Yeah, 100% Yeah. It's this clinical inertia that doesn't, you know, change. Nothing's changing, and we're just okay with that. But I, you know, and then I'm like, the patient shouldn't have to feel that way, right? So, crap, when you're that high, and you know, they don't, may not even know it, right? Because they've felt bad for so long, and they don't even know it until they start having good blood sugar control, and they're like, oh my gosh, I have energy now, oh my goodness, I can think clearer. I can do things that I didn't know I was missing out on, and so we're limiting the patients from having that opportunity, and just complications are just going to keep getting worse if we don't make changes earlier on.

Scott Benner 48:54
It's an underlying attitude of dead man walking. Yeah, you got diabetes. Oh, wow, this ain't gonna go good for you. I'll tell you right now, because I can't tell you what to do because, you know the FDA. And that guy over there, he can't tell you what to do because, you know, he don't know. And that lady over there, she's not allowed, and that's, ooh, yeah, your ANC is gonna get higher. You're gonna get foggy in your head. You're not gonna be yourself anymore. You'll probably have complications later. I'd help you, but sorry and like that's really what's happening. It sounds so harsh, because I don't think that's what anyone's actual mindset is, but I do think that it's what happens. Agree, yeah, it's what happens. Because at some point in every person's conversation that they have in their own head, whether it's somebody who works at a pump company who's not allowed to tell people how to use insulin, if it's a doctor who didn't bother learning, you know, somehow calls himself an endocrinologist, but doesn't understand how to adjust basal and everyone in between, all of those people, at some point, make a deal with themselves to not worry about it. They get to the. Into that thought, they go, Oh, I really I'm not helping as much as I should have. But. And then there's always the but that writes it off. I'm not allowed to. That's not my job. It's not my place. I don't want to scare anybody like they'll there's that excuse that stops you from feeling bad about it. Yeah. And then we just all go off and do a half ass job for people, and they get to live half assed lives and then they die. But okay, well, I wasn't allowed to tell them, yeah, I'm not okay with that. Like, that's the the entire crux of the podcast, like going back 10 years now, is that I'm not okay with that. I know I say this too much, but It's recently been been a thing that's back under my my saddle a little bit is when I started making this podcast a prominent person in the diabetes community, and I'm making air quotes around that, because, you know, just because you make content and say you're you know about diabetes, doesn't mean you're actually helping anybody literally came to me and said, It is dangerous for you to share how your daughter uses insulin and how she lives her life With diabetes. You can't do that, and 10 years later, I don't honestly know how many 10s of 1000s of, maybe hundreds of 1000s of people have been helped by this podcast. Common thinking would have been shut your mouth. Don't tell them. They don't get to know, you know, that's a nice thing for you. You don't say it to other people. That's how people think. Yeah, so there you go. Now, I'm been now you've made me cynical on top of angry.

'Mia' 51:28
You know, you see it day in and day out, and it's just it's so hard to watch. And, you know, I feel like there's more that I can do to help people, right? There's more that I can do

Scott Benner 51:40
listen. I have your notes from your intake. Can we switch gears pretty harshly, since we're already saying things people aren't going to like, I have a question about something. Might as well make me unlikable. On another topic too, sure, in your initial intake, you said binge eating like you just like, why did you want to talk about an eating disorder.

'Mia' 52:01
So when I was initially diagnosed, you know, back a long time ago, we didn't have all the stuff to tell us things, and so I would have high blood sugars no matter what I did. Like, if I ate salad, I would have high blood sugar. I would, you know, I we didn't know, of course, as much as we know now. So, so then I would just eat whatever I would want. I would eat ice cream. I'm like, I would just, I literally would go and get the little pints of ice cream, and I would just eat it. Because I'm like, Well, my blood sugar's going to be high anyway, so I'm just going to eat whatever I want. Um, it doesn't matter what I do. So I would just eat, like, binge eat food, and then see what my blood sugar would be, because I didn't know how to manage it any other way. Looking back, I am amazed that I was okay. But yeah, I just we didn't know. I took NPH and regular and all we did was check our blood sugar a few times a day, if we if we did. But every time I checked, every time I checked, it was always high, right? Didn't matter it was, it was always high. And so, so, yeah, so I would just start binge eating because I didn't, you know, I already felt bad about myself because I was high. And so I just was like, Well, fine, if I'm going to be high, I'm going to give myself a reason to be high.

Scott Benner 53:21
Did you feel like you had an eating disorder?

'Mia' 53:23
I was definitely down that path, for sure, for sure. I met my husband, and he kind of helped pull me out of that before, I mean, before we were married and stuff, and kind of helped me start to see myself worth besides just a number kind of makes me cry. But, you know, he really helped me was that a lot of faith and prayer as well, that is a big part of who I am as well, and so that helped me kind of get on the right track. Finally, was able to go to a doctor who didn't judge me. You know, there's a lot of judgment. I remember being at this one medical place, and there were a whole bunch of med students there, and they all came in and, like, asked me the same questions, you know, how many times did they see people with type one diabetes, you know, and my ANC was high, and they're, like, asking me my why my a 1c was high? What am I doing? You know, just like, but there was probably like four students that came in, and they all had to do a health intake on me, right? And, you know, it was just so demoralizing and so judgmental, and I just felt like I was the worst person in the world for that, because my my blood sugars were high, and so for the longest time, you know, I was just like, Oh, if my number is high, then that means I'm a bad person, right? My self worth was tied up into it. And then I met my husband, and he really kind of helped me through all of that. And then I finally had an endocrinologist who just talked to me like a person. Yeah, that kind. Of made me like, Okay, I need to take care of myself and really try and get on the right track. And she was like, Are you gonna have children someday? And it's like, well, yeah, I want kids. And she's like, well, then you have to start getting your blood sugars under control. But she talked to me as a person, like as a female, as a mom, you know, I wasn't a mom, but, you know, if you want to have children, what, what do you want for your kids? Do you want for your kids to have one if I was even able to have healthy kids, if my blood sugars were to continue in that path? But how do, how was I going to be, you know, as a, you know, how was, how was I going to expect my health to be okay, to take care of my kids if I didn't really start, you know, making changes or learning how to take care of things,

Scott Benner 55:46
what do you think the process was that got you there? You diagnosed as a teen, okay? And 30 years ago, like, there's the management was, you know, not what it is now, obviously. And so being high was probably, like, you know, law of the land, right? You probably, probably high most of the time, then you get crazy low once in a while. Is that about what it was like? Yeah, yeah, okay. And that was just it, right? There's no measuring tools, really, to speak of. You're not like, meaning like, you're not looking at a CGM. You're not like, not able to really dial in what you're doing. Nobody talks about you weren't covering carbs at one point, I would imagine you were just No, we didn't,

'Mia' 56:23
yeah, we didn't count carbs. It was all fixed doses. We did the exchange list, yep, but it was just like, Okay, this is how many exchanges you eat, but you still take, took the same amount of insulin for all of that, which I guess, in a roundabout way, is carb counting. If you know exactly what you're doing, right, you know? And then I it was, it really wasn't until I I wanted to have children, where I was really like, Okay, I really need to start taking care of this. And we moved to another place, and I met a diabetes educator there, and she was a nurse. I remember her to this day, and she just helped me. She took me in, and she taught me about taking, you know, did she talk teach me about taking different doses? I don't remember exactly, but anyways, she just really loved on me and made me feel like I was not a terrible person if my blood sugars were high, and so I wanted to do well because, you know, I wanted her to be proud of me, yeah, and also because I wanted to start having two kids. And she said, Well, you know, you need your a 1c to be better. And so, so I did. So I started make, you know, really making changes. And I don't, it's probably not so much that I made changes about my food, because I wasn't eating terribly at that point. But it was like making sure I took my insulin right, making sure that I did take the amount that I was supposed to take. And so it was probably more of those things that really kind of helped me, you know, get better.

Scott Benner 57:56
What happens when you go from Exchange diet, or, you know, regular mph, world to fast acting and mealtime, or mealtime and basal insulin, and there's not a lot of like direction there, back in the day, right? What is that like, mid, late 80s? Is that about, right?

'Mia' 58:13
I was diagnosed early 90s. Okay? I started, I think I started on humologue, I want to say right before my pregnancy,

Scott Benner 58:23
okay, but I'm saying, Once you make that shift, there's not, there wasn't a ton of direction back then. No, no, no, no, no. So it was like, now we're just going to use this factorizing insulin, and then it's the end of it. Then you don't, like, even, yeah, know what the hell you're doing. And my point is, that. So you start in a hole that's driven by what's available, right? There's nothing anybody can really do about that. There's some people who've, like, you talk to some of the old heads, sometimes they really figured it out somehow, like they're rolling around with like, a stable five and a half, a 1c on regular and mph, or something like that. And you're like, okay, but most people don't figure it out. So you have a health suffering. Then, then you fall into this situation where insulins change, and the again, the medical profession is not ready to explain it to people, yeah, and so now people are just lost again. And now there's endless years of people misusing insulin, not understanding it correctly, blah, blah. Then all of a sudden, CGMS happen. And I'm telling you right now, that's the core of everyone doing better now, like, it's, it's being able to see your blood sugar in real time, right? So now these CGMS happen, and people understand them. I'm going to tell you, like, for clarity, like before art and CGM the ideas I were having were all like, they were academic. You know what? I mean, I was like, I think this is what's happening. Or I would try to test her a bunch to try to see if I could see a pattern or something like that. But, I mean, I was really just guessing. Still. I was guessing, right? But I was still guessing. It's not until the CGM comes where I was like, Oh, I get this now. Like, now I see what's going on. I can get I can get ahead of these things. I can make my. Their decisions, etc, so on. I think the point is, is that by the time the only thing that really happened to you, right is that you it's this confluence of events. You meet the educator, you meet your husband, you have this idea of like, I can't feel like this anymore. And then on top of that, you have to live with people asking questions doctors and physicians asking questions that they don't mean, like they're not trying to make you feel bad, right, right? But because of the situation you're in, these are horrible things to hear. Is that? Right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, exactly. And then somehow all that stuff, luckily comes together, and you pull it together, yeah?

'Mia' 1:00:40
Once I started to feel better, when my blood sugars got better, you know, it, it definitely started to really click, right? And then when I got on a my very first pump, it was like night and day. I mean, even back then, with the type of pump that we, you know, pumps that we had, it was like night and day. My a 1c, have been less than seven probably, I think there was two times where it may have been 7.1 or 7.2 over the years since then, and now they're, you know, now they're even much better, and time and range is much better. But, but yeah, it was like, Wow, I feel good. You know, I'm starting to feel better. So if I feel better, I can do better.

Scott Benner 1:01:26
Yeah, and so not a thing you realize when you're going through it. You don't

'Mia' 1:01:30
realize it until you start to feel better, and you're like, Oh my gosh. And then I remember when I finally got onto, I wouldn't say the first CGM, but when I got onto CGM, consistently, I could really tell a difference. I realized that it was because my blood sugar was dropping, but since I'd had hypo unawareness by then, I didn't really know that that was what was happening. But I would just get kind of irritable, and then I would eat dinner. And you know, this was usually in the late in the afternoon, early dinner, you know, early evening, we'd eat, and then I would be fine. But it's

Scott Benner 1:02:04
heartbreaking again, yeah, yeah. There's a moment in my day where my kids look at me and think, crazy lady and, and that's because my blood sugar's low, and I don't even know, yeah, exactly, it's up. See, that's my that's my point is that, and I the best way I feel like I've ever found to say it is, is that with stable and in range blood sugars, you have an opportunity to be the person that you were supposed to be prior to your pancreas not working well, and all this coming into your life, like, there is a way you would respond to your children, to the news, a way you would exercise love, laugh all this like, like, fundamentally, who you are gets changed by diabetes when it's not well managed, And no one teaches you how to do that. So, so it's not just my pancreas, you know, shit out on me, and now I gotta take this insulin like that is a very surface way of looking at what diabetes is, because it when your blood sugar is too high or it's too low, you are altered. Your brain works differently than it would if your blood sugar was 85 Yeah, that's it, exactly. And that's not right. Part of my my focus is for my daughter to be able to live her life as herself. And I don't mean like, you know what I mean like? I mean on that level. I mean on a molecular level, and what comes out of her mouth and how she feels and sees things and speaks like that's the to me, that's what we're trying to do, like the health, the health comes with it. That's great, but it's more about getting to be yourself. Yeah, exactly. I

'Mia' 1:03:53
would agree 100% and I think that that's what kind of makes me really feel for people when they don't have that as an option, and that's not given to them as an option, or they're written off as somebody that's non compliant, or that's not capable of making changes, like it's because they've never had the opportunity to feel good, right? Or they've never been given the opportunity to have technology, or they've never been told, Hey, let's try this instead and see if this will work. Yeah, let you see how your food responds. Let you see what this you know happens when you forget to take your insulin, or when you do take your insulin, you know the differences. And when they start to see that, I believe 100% that people will improve.

Scott Benner 1:04:43
Well, they'll at least have the opportunity. That's for sure. Yeah, yeah. So, like, very simply stated, like, if you have a 200 blood sugar for the last 10 years, you're not experiencing the world. And the world is not experiencing you as you would or they would if. Your blood sugar had been 85 most of the time for the last 10 years. That right there is then, now suddenly, like you said, you go into a doctor's office and maybe you're short tempered, or you can't focus, or whatever ends up happening to the point where you don't do what the doctor says, even though we assume most of them might not even be saying anything all that incredibly valuable to begin with. And then they, they they literally take a pen and write non compliant in your chart. I feel like non compliant means I don't have to worry about this one anymore. They don't want to be healthy. So my conscience is clear, right? Yeah, exactly. Not for everybody. But I know it's just a, it's an insurance thing for, you know, just they have to write it down, like, in a lot of places. So I'm not saying everybody feels that way, but the thing that I spoke about earlier, about the well, my job doesn't allow me to do that, so I can write this off, right? Like, that's non compliant. Well, they didn't listen. Oh, well, not my fault. I told them, yeah. Like, Yeah, but you're telling a person who's altered and then you're upset because they didn't accept it. Well anyway, there's a lot more going on than we think, and none of this has to happen. You just get them in the hospital when they're diagnosed, and you explain its timing and its amount. It's this and it's that. Look, I this is going to sound like a commercial. If you just got that bold beginning series I made when you were diagnosed, you have an exponentially better chance of being healthy.

'Mia' 1:06:24
Oh yeah, that's it, yeah. And when I was when I was diagnosed, I didn't even go to the

Scott Benner 1:06:30
hospital. It's fine, but

'Mia' 1:06:33
it was like, so my brother has type one as well, and he was diagnosed two years before me. We were both around the same age, but, you know, just two years apart. And so my mom took me to the doctor, and he's like, okay, take insulin, and just sent me, sent me on my way. I didn't go. I didn't have, like, education right away or anything.

Scott Benner 1:06:56
Guess what, Mia, you're in the family business now, see ya. Yeah, exactly.

'Mia' 1:06:59
Yeah. So it was kind of crazy, but I'm thankful that people that you know that it is taken a lot more seriously, and that they usually are sent to the hospital for a couple of days to learn things and stuff. But yeah, it was just kind of crazy that that didn't happen for me.

Scott Benner 1:07:18
I hope for everybody that they find the information that it lands with them, if it doesn't land with them, that they find a place to go speak in a community setting where somebody might be able to speak their language and get it to them. That really is another great value of the Facebook group, which is, let's say I lead you down a path, but you don't jive with me, but you still go, oh, something's here. I don't understand. I didn't understand I didn't understand how that guy said it, but it does exist. I'll go to the Facebook group and go find somebody who speaks my language, you know what I mean, and then I'll now, I'll go find it over there. I still, first of all, I still see that as me helping. And the other thing is, is like, not everyone's gonna like me or or hear me the way I speak. Like, like, it doesn't mean they don't get to have good blood sugars, you know, right? I'm just doing my best. Like, I'm just, I'm out here doing my best, and hopefully I'm leading people towards a path that will, will, will just, it'll walk a healthier life for them. That's really all I care about. That's the rest of it just works itself out honestly. So is there anything we didn't talk about that we should have?

'Mia' 1:08:25
I don't think so. I kind of went off on, you know, I guess I'm pretty passionate about what I would I want for people to have care, and so if I went on that too much, I apologize. No, no, this

Scott Benner 1:08:40
was lovely. And also, Mia, seriously, like, don't be sorry about going being passionate about it. Like, I'm not a therapist, but a therapist might tell you that you're trying to do for other people what you wish would have happened for you.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:57
Probably don't worry.

Scott Benner 1:08:58
That's exactly what they say. I just save you the 40 bucks. People did their best for you. Their best was not nearly enough. The technology was not nearly where it wanted needed to be. That's nobody's fault, right? We're just we're getting better as a society in that stuff, right? You were born in a time where this was how it was going to be, and then you got to see the new time, and now you can hold those two things up against each other and go, Oh my god, like I lived a lot of my life the way we just described, and I don't want that for other people, yeah, and I, I'm telling you, I started this whole thing because I just thought, like, there's no reason for people to, like, spend two years crying the way I did when my daughter was diagnosed. You know what I mean? Like, like, I all this stuff I figured out, like, why don't we just go tell it to somebody else? They can skip it. Then it makes sense to me. It's really like this podcast is verbally what AI will be one day for information, which is, like, you could spend six years. Is learning how to do this, or we can just go past that, and now here it is. It just it works. Now, do that. Now see what's beyond this. Like, that's progress, by the way. Like, some people will see that as, like, a loss of, like, old school things like, oh, you know when they people say, like, if everybody has a calculator, what do I need to add for like, how do I like, I don't have to learn how to add I have a calculator. Well, there's an argument to be made, but we would like you to learn how to add. I think that'd be important. There's also an argument to be made for like, Yeah, that's probably right. Just use the calculator. And that's how I see kind of the diabetes information. Like, you can struggle for 10 years and hope to figure it out, but you're probably not going to. Why don't we just let somebody who already figured it out just tell you what to do? What to do, and then you can go build your life on the shoulders of that idea, instead of starting in the hole that you got dug into when your pancreas was like, I don't think so. I'm not today anyway, that's how I think about it. Yeah. All right, this was lovely. I appreciate you doing this. I hope you become a very successful PA and find a doctor who cares more about patients than money. And

'Mia' 1:11:05
I know, I know, I know that that's kind of way out there. I think I would be disappointed with myself if I didn't even try. I say, take

Scott Benner 1:11:13
your hippie attitude out in the world and try to make it work. Yeah, yeah, so that maybe you could do it yourself, like one person at a time. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Like, why couldn't you start a business where you help people with diabetes? I've

'Mia' 1:11:26
thought about that. I've thought about doing that too, but I would like, like, not being a PA, but then I would still have to say, you have to follow up with your doctor, and they have to make the changes, unless the doctor gave me the, you know, the permission to make the changes.

Scott Benner 1:11:42
Well, there are, there are companies out there that help people, and they do exactly what you're talking about, and they're not run by doctors. Yeah, yeah. Well, just remember, nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Now, have you ever thought of bolusing for the fat in your french fries? I bet you haven't. Let's talk about it. Thank you very much. Hold on one second. Okay,

'Mia' 1:12:07
thanks. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:12:17
Did you know if just one person in your family has type one diabetes, you are up to 15 times more likely to get it too. So screen it like you mean it one blood test can spot type one diabetes early tap now talk to a doctor or visit screened for type one.com for more info, this episode of The juicebox podcast was sponsored by us Med, usmed.com/juicebox or call 888-721-1514, get started today with us. Med links in the show notes, links at juicebox podcast.com, Arden started using a contour meter because of its accuracy, but she continues to use it because it's durable and trustworthy. If you have diabetes, you want the contour next gen blood glucose meter. There's already so many decisions. Let me take this one off your plate. Contour, next.com/juice box. I want to thank you so much for listening and remind you please subscribe and follow to the podcast wherever you're listening right now, if it's YouTube, Apple podcast, Spotify, or any other audio app, go hit follow or subscribe, whichever your app allows for, and set up those downloads so you never miss an episode, especially in Apple podcast, go into your settings and choose download all new episodes the diabetes variables series from the juicebox podcast goes over all the little things that affect your diabetes that you might not think about, travel and exercise to hydration and even trampolines, juicebox podcast.com go up in the menu and click on diabetes variables, the episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongwayrecording.com. You.

#1315 IDU: Why Some People Can’t Hear Sarcasm

Arden and Scott try to figure out why some people can't hear sarcasm.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
OmniPod, Welcome back friends, to another episode of The juicebox podcast.

Arden's back today to talk more about what we don't understand. And today's topic is sarcasm we don't understand why some people can't hear it. Nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Guys, the best way to support the podcast, if you're wondering, is to use the sponsors links. They're in the show notes of your podcast player. They're at juicebox podcast.com, and they're repeated throughout the ads. I'm talking about OmniPod, Dexcom, US Med, the contour, next gen, blood glucose meter, GEVO, hypo, pen, cozy Earth, AG, one screened for type one.com. Let's not forget touched by type one, the Eversense CGM, the Medtronic champions. Link and you can go to tndxchange.org/juicebox, and complete that survey. All of these things will support the show, not to mention sharing it with friends and people you meet along the way. And don't forget to join the private Facebook group juicebox podcast. Type one diabetes on Facebook, it currently has almost 54,000 active members, and it's adding about 150 new people every 72 hours. This episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by cozy Earth. Use the offer code juicebox at checkout at cozy earth.com and you will save 40% off of your entire order. The episode you're about to listen to was sponsored today by ag one, you can drink ag one, just like I do by going to drink ag one.com/juicebox, check it out. Okay, alright, we're back. We're making another episode of I don't understand. But before we get started and I tell people the topic, tell me what you just said. Oh, my

Arden Benner 2:05
Instagram. Yeah, Instagram spoiled. Um, what do you mean?

Unknown Speaker 2:09
What do you mean? I'm like, let

Arden Benner 2:11
me tell you about this problem on Instagram. No, I don't even want to say it now. It's not that

Scott Benner 2:18
big. Five seconds ago, you were like, there's a travesty of justice. Let me tell you about it.

Unknown Speaker 2:22
Come on. Let's just come on. Now. You

Scott Benner 2:25
don't know, people are gonna wonder what you were talking about. No, just let them wonder. It's good to be curious. Okay. Well, speaking of being curious, we were wondering, and this is one that neither of us understand, I guess, is it neither or neither, neither. I don't think it matters. Either, either, neither, neither. I

Unknown Speaker 2:45
don't think it matters. Let's

Speaker 1 2:46
call the whole thing off. You know, the end of the I wish

Speaker 2 2:49
you did tomato, and you just say, tomato, tomato, tomato, Potato,

Arden Benner 2:55
potato.

Scott Benner 2:56
Let's call the whole thing off. I don't know that was a whole thing is that like a song about people dating and then they don't end up get together because they say tomato differently. That's a dumb reason to break up. Topic garden is doing I'm stretching my leg. No one knows that's happening, if you don't mention it, today's topic is something it's difficult for you, and I to to understand, right? Because I think, I mean, I know, for me, I'm dealing on a professional level when it comes to sarcasm. I really am, and I've

Arden Benner 3:34
created sarcasm. You feel like you, you're the one, the creator of sarcasm. So we have quite a hard time understanding this

Scott Benner 3:41
topic. Yes, our topic is, we don't understand why. Some people can't hear sarcasm. Yeah, because it's so obvious, yeah, to me, to you as well. Yeah, it's just like the Yeah, like, we're it's so bad I can't not use sarcasm. They say sarcasm is a dull man's wit, or something like that. But I think that was something that a person who didn't understand sarcasm said, you have to understand, and probably you do that when I'm making the podcast. You know, normally I'm dialing back myself by about like 80%

Unknown Speaker 4:20
like I can't if I just doing that right now too.

Scott Benner 4:23
Oh, I'm still doing it. Or I would say something, or I would say something horrifying to people, yeah, and

Arden Benner 4:27
this podcast would be over on episode three, because we get, we get canceled, for sure, then, uh, we would have no money. Like, like, when we,

Scott Benner 4:37
like, when we just said, I said, Hey, do you want to do this topic? And I was like, Maybe we should wait longer until people really like us before we bring this up.

Arden Benner 4:44
I think the truth of it is, though most people feel the same way about things, but they just like, don't want to be the first one to

Scott Benner 4:51
say it. That I believe is probably true, but I've also learned that there are times where people just they don't hear it at all. Like, like, anything you. Like this thing that whatever done, like things that I think are just obvious. And then I have these sit down long conversations with people, and I realize they're not even they're not hearing this, experiencing this, understanding what I'm saying. Like,

Arden Benner 5:14
I Well, I think a big part of sarcasm is understanding the personality that you're working with. And if people don't know you, then it's like, they don't know if you're being facetious or not, yeah. So like, you have to understand the personality you're working with. But because it's like, obviously, if I made a joke and it involved, like, murder, you'd be like, Oh, Arden's not gonna murder someone. That's she's kidding,

Scott Benner 5:40
no, but some people are be put off by it. Yeah, exactly, because they're not reading the sarcastic and

Arden Benner 5:45
those are people who can't, like, pick up on person, like they don't understand how personalities or this or that,

Scott Benner 5:50
but I don't, but it's not like there's nothing, not like there's something wrong with them, because those people could easily say, like, why don't you guys not be so sarcastic, and then I won't have to feel my way through what you're talking about, but when you're being sarcastic, do you not mean what you're saying?

Speaker 1 6:05
Not always, no, but sometimes Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:10
because, like, you know, like the saying many truth are told in jest. You know that one, no, I do okay. Meaning that people joke about things that they really mean, and then they're like, Oh, I'm just kidding to, like, lighten the the landing of the what is

Arden Benner 6:25
it? Drunk, drunk something or sober thoughts, drunk words, something like that. I don't know the thing they say, like, when you drink and you say something like a truth elixir, yeah, drinking.

Scott Benner 6:38
So when people are. It's so interesting because now I'm trying not to be sarcastic while I'm thinking about it. But I know, for as an example, I don't believe that mom's mother, on any fundamental level, understands me. Okay. I don't like I think anytime I'm joking, she doesn't know I'm joking. Wait, what? And why are you saying this? Because she's an example of a person who I just don't think gets my sarcasm at all. And I know there are other people like that, because I get emails from people listening to the podcast who are like mad at me for something that they perceive that

Arden Benner 7:20
I think is so interesting.

Scott Benner 7:24
This is from a listener. Thank you for introducing me to cozy Earth. For my birthday, I bought stuff to update my bed sheets, comforter and a blanket. It honestly made our lives better. My husband and I used to have a conversation in quotes every single morning about who pulled the covers so far to their side, or how we were too hot or too cold. That never happens now, both of us sleep better and more comfortably. And don't get me started on the clothes you all should just try one piece. Use the offer code juicebox at checkout@cozyearth.com, and you will, in fact, save 30% off of everything you put in that cart. Cozyarth.com, use the offer code. Juicebox at checkout. I began drinking ag one when I started worrying that I wasn't getting enough vitamins, minerals and gut support. I tried a couple of other products that I did not like the way they tasted, and eventually I found ag one, and I settled on it because it delivers what I need and I like the way it tastes. So ag one contains prebiotics, probiotics and gut supporting ingredients. And since I've been taking I've noticed I have more energy, improved digestion. I've got reduced bloating, like, you know what I mean? Like, you get puffy in the front less than that, and I make the poopy every day, so it helps to keep me regular. What I'm telling you is ag one helps fill my nutrient gaps and supports my gut health. These things are incredibly important. I take them very seriously, and that's why I drink ag one. So start with ag one and notice the difference for yourself. It's a great first step to investing in your health, and that's why they've been a proud partner of mine for so long. Try ag one and get a free bottle of vitamin d3, k2, and five free. Ag one, travel packs with your first purchase at drink. Ag one.com/juice, box. That's a $48 value for free if you go to my link drink. AG, one.com/juice,

Unknown Speaker 9:19
box. Check it out.

Arden Benner 9:21
For some reason, like not being sarcastic is like the default persona. So if you are sarcastic, it's like you're different because you act like this in this scenario, you know what I'm saying. So it's like you like people will say to a sarcastic person, if they don't like sarcasm, they'll be like, I don't like sarcasm, so you have to stop using it. But why is it not like, Oh, I

Unknown Speaker 9:44
like sarcasm. I

Arden Benner 9:45
understand it. You should use it, right? Such a double standard, I

Scott Benner 9:50
have to tell you, this is a very similar thought that I had after I got married, but not about sarcasm. I want to know what it was about. It's about like. Right? In any interpersonal situation, someone tends to take the moral high ground and illuminate you as the problem, yeah. And now, therefore something that's

Arden Benner 10:14
unique or different anyway, is the problem,

Scott Benner 10:17
right? Yeah. And they feel like, well, because, oh, this is a bigger topic, isn't it? This

Arden Benner 10:22
gets into like, like, race and stuff like that, yeah, like, it's, it's minority. Like, being the minority in a certain setting makes you the one who's wrong. So

Scott Benner 10:31
you're saying, if you're a sarcastic person surrounded by people who aren't, yeah, you're my you being the minority in that situation allows the people who aren't sarcastic to paint you as the problem, yeah,

Arden Benner 10:44
because there's more of them than there is you. So they they think that they must be right, because they're like, they're like, the normal version or something, and we're like the off version of them.

Scott Benner 10:54
Do you think that in an alternate situation when there's eight sarcastic people, eight people with, like, the talent for sarcasm, and two people who don't, does it feel mean to the two people who don't have this skill? Is

Arden Benner 11:07
it a skill? It probably is. But like, think about it like affliction. Think it's like you were in like, a room with comedians or something, and they're all making jokes, and you're not like that is you feel out of place then.

Scott Benner 11:19
So when you hear comedians talk to each other like because now every comedian in the world has a podcast so you can hear their

Arden Benner 11:24
every thought like you. Deb, I have a podcast too, but comedian, I'm not a comedian. You're so funny. Do you think I could do I don't think I could, really. I don't think you could do it either.

Scott Benner 11:34
Yeah. I don't think I could. But my point is this is that when when a bunch of comedians get together, they just break each other's balls constantly.

Arden Benner 11:42
Yeah? And I would love that. I'd love to be in that situation. Mom would start crying four seconds into that conversation because she feels like attack, attacked. Yeah, Cole would too, because they don't hear the sarcastic. It's all jokes. You can't take anything to heart, right? But the thing is, a lot of it's true. You have to deal with the fact that it's true.

Scott Benner 12:03
Are you okay, hearing stuff about yourself sarcastically, that's true. Yeah. Are you sure?

Arden Benner 12:08
Yes, when you're not,

Unknown Speaker 12:10
what do you mean?

Arden Benner 12:11
You're not good with that?

Scott Benner 12:12
I think that everybody thinks you dish it. Don't take it. I think everybody thinks that probably to an extent. Yeah. I think everyone thinks everyone else is bad at it, but they're great at it. No,

Arden Benner 12:23
I don't think anyone's bad at it.

Speaker 1 12:25
I think that you think I can't take it. Oh, you

Arden Benner 12:29
cannot take it. I don't agree with that. You get very defensive. You're already defending yourself. I don't feel defensive. Like, if you told me right now that I can't take it, I'd be like, Okay, I don't know why you think that, but like, Okay, if that's what you think so, but you get defensive right away. This is

Scott Benner 12:43
very interesting because, because I don't agree, I don't agree with the use of the word defensive.

Arden Benner 12:52
I hate this. We're not getting into this next topic. What? Because I we've talked about this at home, and I think it's so ridiculous. I

Scott Benner 12:59
just think it's explaining a perspective. This is just literally

Arden Benner 13:02
wrong. This isn't even like an opinion. This is just wrong.

Scott Benner 13:07
So I'm not allowed to have my own opinion, because you've said I'm wrong, but earlier, you said that if people who don't understand sarcasm,

Arden Benner 13:14
but there's some, there's some stuff, that's just fact and that is just wrong, go ahead, tell them how you view

Scott Benner 13:21
if somebody says something about you that you don't agree with, and you explain it, that person goes, You're being defensive. And I'm saying, No, I'm just trying to give you my perspective.

Arden Benner 13:36
Well, that's completely different, but you can still being defensive doesn't mean like you're giving it being defense. You can give perspective without being defensive. You can say, okay, I don't agree with this situation. I don't agree with how you see it. Here's how I see it. But instead, you're just like, No,

Scott Benner 13:52
you're wrong. Have you not considered that it's because of the incredible onslaught of pressure coming from, let me be honest, you and mom trying to tell me I'm being defensive. You are you? You are being defensive. I don't feel like I am, but when I'm being told I am, it makes me upset, not defensive. It makes me feel like you're not listening.

Arden Benner 14:15
You go into a defensive mode when you're upset. That's how you work. I don't like it when people don't listen, yeah. And you get defensive. I feel like that's very man of you the way you're talking. I think

Scott Benner 14:26
that that feels like a bad word to me. Defensive.

Arden Benner 14:29
Yeah, so it makes you more defensive because you don't like the word. You're just proving my point right now, I don't

Scott Benner 14:37
feel like that well, like, if you're backing me,

Arden Benner 14:41
SUBSCRIBE and COMMENT down below. Is he defensive? Yeah, please. Oh, this

Unknown Speaker 14:46
isn't YouTube, is it? Oh, I

Scott Benner 14:47
mean, it'll be on YouTube. Okay. Yeah, you people do that, but, but I don't see it as defensive. I just see it as you're not understanding my position. And I'm trying to articulate how

Arden Benner 14:58
this feels to me, not to bring up new. All again, but it has so much greatness in it. It feels like the episode of new girl when they're trying to get Ruth into, like, the really good school, and they're trying to teach her about colors or something, and I know about numbers, they're trying to teach her the numbers, and they're like, 1234567, and they get to seven, and she's like, green. And Schmidt is like, what did she just say? Seven was green? And Jess is like, seven is whatever she feels it is. That is how you that is how I feel right now, when you talk about being defensive, I feel like exactly

Scott Benner 15:32
you're not. You're willfully not hearing me so that you can eat me on a defensive footing. No, that's not what's going on. How it feels? Well,

Unknown Speaker 15:43
I feel that you're wrong.

Scott Benner 15:44
Okay, look at you reaching all the way into epic in season seven of New Girl, for reference, Ruth. Look at you that they named after Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I remember I was there. I remember during covid, when you said to me, Dad, you got to watch this show. And you tried to say no at first, I didn't like it at first. Yeah, it felt too um, box at kami in the first you

Arden Benner 16:06
remember the first day that we watched it together? Remember why we were watching it? I do. So

Scott Benner 16:11
here's what I remember about the first day we were up earlier than everyone else. Yeah, so I'm gonna guess we went for a blood draw. We did. We

Arden Benner 16:18
went for a blood draw, but that was the day you remember when we when we went to go get my blood drawn, and she took so much blood, she had to go to another another room, like, looked at each other, like, what? And then

Scott Benner 16:33
that was back when we were trying to figure out all the things that were going on with you. And she was like, I don't have enough booze. She loved the game with more too, yeah, like in her shirt, right? Like she was, she

Arden Benner 16:44
was holding them in her shirt. And we were like, What the hell. And then she came back, and I swear to God, it was like, over 30 tubes that she took. I don't know what was even wrong with me. And then we left, and she, I remember her saying something like, did you eat? And I was like, no. She's like, Yeah, you should probably do

Scott Benner 17:01
that. Then we came back here and nobody was awake yet, and it was like a it was a cold or a wet day, or it was cold, right? And then we sat on the sofa, under blankets, we watched New Girl, and because it was covid, Mom and I were letting you redo your room any way you wanted, yeah, and you decide birthday, because I couldn't do anything for my birthday, we couldn't do anything for your birthday, so you repainted your room, put down different flooring in your room as your birthday present. But you also made this grand pronouncement that watching televisions made your eyes hurt and you needed a projector. Yes, that was the same day. Yeah, you're so right, because the projector screen came that day, and then we put it up in my room. Yes, you

Arden Benner 17:42
know what? The first show I put on was no Grey's Anatomy. Oh, no kidding. And we were watching Grey's Anatomy on the wall. And then Cole did his little dilly dally. Didn't he's like, Oh, what's going on in here? And I was like, I got a projector, bitch. Yeah. You

Scott Benner 17:56
also for people who think that that's a crazy thing. You can get a projector for about $300 and the screen was like 100 bucks, and we put it up in her room, and she pulls down a screen in her room and she wants to watch TV and turns on a projector, yeah, but nowadays you would do it more on a laptop, right? Because I'm downstairs

Arden Benner 18:12
doing homework, but I just got to clean up my room so I can do it. It's hard to do because I broke the little thing that all my clothes are standing on. So do

Scott Benner 18:20
we want to tell people that your closet so full that you have a free standing closet in your middle of your room? No, I

Arden Benner 18:27
don't want to talk about it, because I also have clothes in my basket online right now. So

Scott Benner 18:32
okay, Marta needs this podcast to, like, maybe get some advertisers so she can buy clothes with it. No, I need an education. Okay. So, okay, so that was the day, yeah, and that show is incredibly sarcastic, yes, and you and I love it, yeah. Now here's interesting. Mom cannot watch it. She can't even figure the

Arden Benner 18:51
out. She can't get, like, three episodes in, like, it's just like, it's all right. And I'm like, well, because you don't hear anything that's going on right now, like something sarcastic will happen, and I'll turn my head and smile, and she's just, like, sitting there, and I'm, like, daring, she doesn't get it.

Unknown Speaker 19:07
She did not get it. Did not hear it at all. Yeah, and it's not like, she

Arden Benner 19:10
doesn't think it's funny. She literally does not understand what's going on. Yes,

Scott Benner 19:14
yes, it's not. You're You're right. She didn't hear something funny and decide that, to me, is not amusing. Yeah, she can't identify that. It's funny, yeah, because she's not hearing sarcasm, she's hearing the words and their meaning, and that's

Speaker 1 19:29
it. Yeah, she's so literal, okay, Cole, who is also literal,

Arden Benner 19:35
I think that he's worse than mom and like, like, when you're talking to him, he's worse than mom, but

Unknown Speaker 19:40
he loves new girl. Yeah,

Scott Benner 19:43
he loves that show, yeah, but he likes something different about

Arden Benner 19:46
it. Yeah, it's not the sarcasm, it's the the actions, maybe like the like when Nick will moonwalk, or like when Schmidt like acts a certain way. It's not the sarcasm of it. It's not the joke. It's the

Scott Benner 19:59
but this. The actions here this, he hears the sarcasm. I

Arden Benner 20:03
think he hears it. It doesn't affect in the same way, but he likes, like, the things that they do feel

Unknown Speaker 20:09
sarcasm like, Shut up. Do you know what I

Scott Benner 20:12
mean? Like, you can feel it coming when you're watching something you're like, this is, I know this feeling. I was saying to somebody the other day about being sarcastic, that when it's done exactly right, it is indistinguishable from, like, regular speech. It's not there, but people who know it's there, it's like seeing a ghost. Does that make sense? Sometimes

Arden Benner 20:32
I hear sarcasm and what people are saying when they don't mean to be sarcastic. That happens to me too, and like, they don't know that they've done something sarcastic, and I'm just like, oh, like, you don't know why. So, you know,

Scott Benner 20:48
almost like a double entendre way, but not exactly. I say stuff on the podcast that gets I know some people laugh at it for one reason, and other people laugh at it for a different reason, yeah, and they don't hear the two don't hear the joke. Yeah,

Arden Benner 21:04
I can. I will have to learn people like sarcasm from people. It's like when I say something or someone else says something sarcastic. I have to look around a room and see what people's reactions are, because people who hear a joke laugh and people who hear sarcasm nod their head

Scott Benner 21:20
and grin or something, maybe just not along with it. Yeah, yeah. It's true. It's very, very interesting. Do you want to read about why some people can't hear sarcasm? It might surprise you. Okay, cognitive and developmental factors. Individuals with ASD, which is autist autism spectrum disorder often have difficulty interpreting social cues, including tone of voice, facial expressions and context, which are essential for recognizing sarcasm. That's not why somebody wouldn't like

Arden Benner 21:52
I know that's true. I know that people on the spectrum have trouble, but not everybody's on the spectrum Right,

Scott Benner 21:57
right, exactly. So that's that doesn't get our answer. Young children or individuals developmental delays. Okay, that's children

Arden Benner 22:03
can't even walk. What are they gonna get my joke? It's like, Hey buddy, come over. Uh, he can't walk. But let me tell you this funny joke. Is

Scott Benner 22:14
it funny too? As you're talking about sarcasm, if you said to me right now, say something sarcastic, I wouldn't know what to say, right, right?

Arden Benner 22:21
But if we're gonna say, but if you're talking, you can't not say something sarcastic, because that happens to me. I have

Scott Benner 22:27
to stop myself from being sorry. Yeah, when I was first like of dating age, a friend of mine told me at six years old, yes, I had a full beard, and I was dating at six. Now, when I was of dating age. A friend of mine who is older told me, dude, if you ever want to be with a girl, you can't use that much sarcasm. Do you think that's true? No, I

Arden Benner 22:49
don't think that's true at all. Yeah, I would have, I have to date someone who's sarcastic, where I'm just, like, boring,

Scott Benner 22:55
but your boy is very quiet, or is he just quiet around us? He's

Arden Benner 22:58
just, he's very he's just chill, but he's very sarcastic with me, okay, right

Scott Benner 23:03
hemisphere brain damage. Wait what? The right hemisphere of the brain plays a crucial role in understanding non literal language, including sarcasm, social communication disorder. This isn't what I wanted. Hold on. What is sarcasm? So key characteristics of sarcasm are irony, tone and delivery, context, intention and examples, if it's raining heavily and someone says, what a beautiful day, well, that's a that's just lazy sarcasm, but it is an example of sarcasm. Sarcasm can be used to add humor to conversation, often highlighted by absurdity or contradiction. Contradiction is mainly what I think of when I think of sarcasm like the opposite of like you're saying the opposite of the words coming out of your mouth. Yeah, right. It can be a way to criticize or express disapproval without making direct statements. Yeah. I

Arden Benner 23:59
think we do that for sure, 100%

Scott Benner 24:02
among friends, sarcasm can be a form of social bonding, showing familiarity and shared understanding, and people sometimes use sarcasm to deflect criticism. You think you do that.

Arden Benner 24:12
You do that for sure.

Scott Benner 24:13
Oh, so for sure. I do it, but you're not sure if you do it. I

Arden Benner 24:16
don't know. You have to tell me. Here's why. I

Scott Benner 24:18
can't let me just readjust to my seat so I can explain this too. I don't judge you.

Arden Benner 24:23
Oh, no, we're not into this right now. Ah,

Scott Benner 24:27
so I don't have any idea, you

Arden Benner 24:31
know what? If you do that, you know what, you'll have no career once this is over. If you want me to start talking, just so you know, and that, by the way, sir, was not sarcasm, but

Scott Benner 24:40
when I said I don't judge you, I was being sarcastic, and then you got defensive. No, because

Arden Benner 24:45
we've had a real conversation about this, and I think it's craziness. Did

Scott Benner 24:49
you just say no, I was being sarcastic and you got defensive. Was I gaslighting you?

Arden Benner 24:55
I didn't say no, I wasn't being defensive. I am being defensive. I 100% agree. With that statement. But

Scott Benner 25:00
when I'm being defensive, it's a problem. When you're doing it is righteous. No, I

Arden Benner 25:04
just, I'm just saying that you can't admit to being defensive.

Scott Benner 25:07
No, we're back on start. Just now, I was being sarcastic. Yeah, I know you were being you got you attacked me? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 25:15
yeah. Well, yeah, 100%

Speaker 1 25:18
okay. Ding, ding, ding. Sarcasm

Scott Benner 25:21
is often used to mock, criticize or show contempt. It can be humorous, but can also be hurtful, depending on how it's used and perceived. Oh,

Arden Benner 25:30
I mock

Unknown Speaker 25:32
you're always mocking people. Always mocking people.

Scott Benner 25:35
It's terrible, unrelenting. I love it when you do it and people don't wreck it. What is that? That's a cricket.

Unknown Speaker 25:42
Sorry, you just yell. Stop it. Cricket. Stop it. Cricket, cricket. What's its name?

Scott Benner 25:49
Well, it doesn't have a name because it only lives for a couple hours. But can you maybe tap on that cage once? Oh,

Arden Benner 25:55
that's not gonna happen, just for sure. Well, we can't

Speaker 1 25:57
talk while it's Oh, it's wait. All right, hold on a second. Can

Arden Benner 26:02
it? Can the thing kill it?

Scott Benner 26:03
It's asleep.

Speaker 1 26:06
The chameleons are asleep. They have a very specific bedtime ritual. They know what time it is,

Scott Benner 26:12
which cages. It's the white one if you just tap it, yeah, that's your freak to crack it out long enough do it again. This is the one real drawback of my chameleons being in here, is that sometimes I go to give them a cricket and they don't get it, and then it lives in there for a day or two, and it makes I got it.

Arden Benner 26:29
Oh no, it started again. You

Scott Benner 26:31
imagine if we had to cancel the podcast because of this something just like left your

Arden Benner 26:36
screen. I don't know what it was. It's

Scott Benner 26:37
a screensaver. Oh, it's louder now. It like knows it's coming for you. Get this. Go ahead. Oh, it stopped. It's gonna start again. Probably, when they get to a certain age, they get like paper on their legs, and they I think, Oh, my God. How does a cricket make a noise? What do you mean

Arden Benner 27:00
by that? That that was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do not put that on the Notes app.

Scott Benner 27:04
You don't want to know. You don't want to know how a cricket makes that noise. No, all right, that is for your own time. So I think what's interesting is that we have not been very sarcastic while we're talking about sarcasm. No, you're not. And if you asked me to give you an example of sarcasm right now, I wouldn't be able to do something. But I know my sarcasm is, is like top shelf, like yours is too, by the way, very, very impressive sarcasm, yeah, what

Arden Benner 27:30
is the anaphylactic shock? Is that when you have a allergy, yeah? Where

Unknown Speaker 27:35
did that come from?

Scott Benner 27:38
You were just thinking about anaphylactic shock. Yeah, you said it very wrong. But

Arden Benner 27:44
this, it's not stopping. I think it like it just made a colony or something, and they've started.

Scott Benner 27:48
You think there's more than one in there now, so

Arden Benner 27:51
loud it is really, maybe it's hot. It is hot in here, yeah, like the backs of my knees are dripping.

Scott Benner 28:00
Oh, sexy. You're also wearing a sweatshirt. Guys into that.

Unknown Speaker 28:08
How's that sound? Are you?

Scott Benner 28:13
It really won't stop. Hold on a second. We're gonna pause. Okay, we're back. Let's button this up. So I have a couple of thoughts. Wait

Arden Benner 28:20
before we keep going. I just want you all to know that the Ohio butthole tickling Bandit has escaped custody and is being hunted by the police.

Scott Benner 28:30
The Ohio butthole tickling bandit, that's not real. Um, I'm

Unknown Speaker 28:35
looking at it.

Scott Benner 28:36
How do I wait? How do I get to your butthole. If I'm the bandit, also, I'm not the Ohio uncommented

Arden Benner 28:44
he doesn't penetrate. He only tickles. First

Scott Benner 28:48
of all, I'm nowhere near Ohio. I want to say that right now. Let me about the Ohio butthole tickling bandit.

Arden Benner 29:02
Someone said the fucking who?

Scott Benner 29:06
It's an urban legend. It's a satirical news story that gained some attention on the internet, but it is not based in real events. That's

Unknown Speaker 29:13
no fun. Sorry.

Unknown Speaker 29:15
It's satire.

Scott Benner 29:18
Satire is satire written sarcasm? Yeah, it is done. Satire and sarcasm are related but distinct forms of communication. While they often overlap, they are not the same,

Unknown Speaker 29:34
but isn't satire like only

Scott Benner 29:37
satire is a literary and rhetorical device that uses humor, irony, exaggeration or ridicule to criticize and expose the flaws, vices or shortcomings of individuals, institutions, society or politics. Sarcasm is a form of verbal irony where someone says the opposite of what they mean, often with a tone of voice that indicates they are not. Being sincere. It is frequently used to mock or convey contempt. I have to tell you something. My favorite part of sarcasm is when you use it without the tone that says I'm kidding. Like, I think of that as, like, old 1950s sarcasm. You know what I mean? Like, like,

Arden Benner 30:21
if someone has a cigar in their mouth and they're

Scott Benner 30:23
like, whatever that is, yeah, there's that, like, big voice in

Arden Benner 30:28
their hand, and they make a joke, and the laugh track is, like,

Scott Benner 30:32
that's how I think of, like, old sarcasm, yes, stupid, yeah. When I think of sarcasm, I am saying something to you I do not mean, and I am saying it in a tone that would make you think I 1,000,000% mean it. Yeah,

Arden Benner 30:47
that's why I'm saying sarca it's not about understanding sarcasm. It's about understanding the person who is being sarcastic,

Scott Benner 30:53
because no one should ever take me seriously, yeah,

Arden Benner 30:57
but if, if someone just met you, how would they 100% know that they wouldn't like, you know, when we go to a restaurant and you're being sarcastic, sarcastic with a waitress and she's like, ah, but you can tell she's like, What the hell did he just say? Yes, yeah, it's because she thinks you're being sarcastic, but she doesn't actually know your personality or who you are, and so there is no way she can know you're being sarcastic 100% and our time is so limited, there's no and as an as a person, she's probably defending herself in a way too. It's probably like a mechanism. So she's an animal, like we're all animals. She's in defense mode now, because she's, you've said something that's probably she's not taking sarcastic. It's uncomfortable. And then she's like, I have to defend myself. Now I never, I don't need to. I'm

Scott Benner 31:39
never sarcastic and mean I am the people you know, to people you know. Would you be sarcastic and mean to a stranger? No,

Arden Benner 31:50
I don't know. No, you know what I I'm very sarcastic to people I know and to people who listen to me. If I'm talking to someone I don't know. Well, I'm an observer, not a I don't talk. I observe. So I talk more, so in a setting in which people know me, because sarcasm is so big, so I have to use that, and if I can't use that with people, yet, if they're strangers to me, I have to listen to them, observe them, and figure them out first.

Unknown Speaker 32:18
Okay,

Arden Benner 32:21
were you more so would get in a situation and you would automatically start talking to someone,

Scott Benner 32:25
yeah, I'm oblivious to the things that you just talked about. Yeah, I know, yeah, I and it's purposeful. I don't

Speaker 1 32:33
care you should. I should, yeah, because, because it helps you, makes you a smarter person, how much smarter can I get? Oh, you could get much smarter, trust me. That was sarcasm. I know it was okay, and so was mine. Okay. Well, yours was better than mine. Is that what you're

Arden Benner 32:52
saying? Apparently, if you can't catch on, it's like an animal kingdom on the lion here.

Unknown Speaker 33:00
Oh, you've never seen the Lion King. No, I

Arden Benner 33:03
have not. Why won't

Scott Benner 33:04
you just sit down and watch the Lion King? It's upsetting. What

Arden Benner 33:07
does he say when you listen?

Scott Benner 33:08
Ah, whatever that is. Oh, no. Like that, that thing. Yeah, that's probably not totally correct. There's no one in our family that can sing.

Arden Benner 33:21
No, none of us. We can't dance, we can't sing.

Scott Benner 33:26
And for as pleasing as my voice is over this microphone, I cannot sing. People tell me all the time, I have a really good, a great voice for this, but

Arden Benner 33:33
I have the worst voice for a woman. You think so? So it's so deep,

Unknown Speaker 33:38
I don't know, I find it nice. Well,

Unknown Speaker 33:40
I'm your daughter.

Scott Benner 33:41
That's not why you don't feel shrill to me ever.

Speaker 1 33:44
What's that mean? You know when Sanj laughs? Sanj, poor Sanj,

Scott Benner 33:49
you know when she laughs and it makes you like you want to cover your ears, makes you want to murder her, yeah, like that. You're never shrill, and shrill even means a little more like, oh god. Almost like, bitchy, like, or,

Arden Benner 34:03
you know what I really like about myself that I don't do and I will never do, and if I end up doing it one day, I would really like someone to tell me girls who end their sentence with

Unknown Speaker 34:15
like, Oh my god. Do

Scott Benner 34:16
you remember when vocal fry was really big? People go, Oh, my God, like that. Somebody told me online that I have vocal fry. What I don't though, I think they just mean my voice is really deep. So sometimes when I'm speaking, I think I just there's like a rumble in my voice. But vocal fry is specifically at the end of a word, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 34:38
I hate that.

Scott Benner 34:40
They say it's a mechanism of trying to sound smarter, like you're being thoughtful at the end. What makes

Arden Benner 34:46
you sound dumber?

Scott Benner 34:47
Don't the Kardashians do them?

Arden Benner 34:49
I don't know if dumber's a word. More dumb, more dumb? Is it? More dumb? Dumb, afied

Speaker 1 34:53
Dummy, Dippy, stupid doofus.

Scott Benner 34:59
Okay? Idiot, Jesus, very vibe. I

Arden Benner 35:02
thought we were like, getting up to that.

Scott Benner 35:05
You got to it too fast. Wait, so why don't so why don't people understand sarcasm? It gave us like, very like, if you're have, oh, my God, what was that? That's what it sounds like when Cole comes home. Oh, Jesus, yeah. Shakes. I

Arden Benner 35:19
thought we just got I thought we were about to get I thought homelander was here.

Scott Benner 35:23
It woke the cricket back up. Oh, my God, it did. Yeah, upsetting. That's

Arden Benner 35:28
how I feel when Cole enters a room. Honestly, you're upset, yeah, oh,

Scott Benner 35:32
he's home from basketball.

Arden Benner 35:34
I know I saw him leave. Okay, he's probably so hot about he's probably like, so hot outside. He runs.

Scott Benner 35:39
He goes out in like, 90 degree heat, plays basketball outside, then runs for, like, runs for like three hours. He looks exhausted when he comes

Unknown Speaker 35:47
back, but she'll watch love Island.

Scott Benner 35:50
Okay, so he should please stop watching Love Island, by the way. It's upsetting. God,

Arden Benner 35:54
they're so dumb. I love it.

Scott Benner 35:56
But okay, so you're watching that. Why?

Arden Benner 36:00
It's like a zoo. It really is. It's just like watching animals interact with each other, because they're

Scott Benner 36:07
not having real experiences even it's just like it's made up,

Arden Benner 36:10
right? They'll be in there for like, a week, and someone leaves and they start crying, and then I'm like, How is that possible? And then, you know, another guy wants to talk to another girl, and other girls, like, I just feel like you formed a connection, and I'm like, you have been there for seven days, and two of them you didn't know them.

Scott Benner 36:28
Does it almost feel like they're being sarcastic? No, it there's no sarcasm in their voice. They can't they're not capable of sarcasm. Yeah, you think sarcasm is difficult? Like, do you think you have to be able to hold two different thoughts in your head at the same time to be sarcastic? Because you know the truth of how you feel and you know what you're what you're saying sounds like opposite of how you feel. Like is that interest? Is that? I wonder what that is you mean. I don't think we figured out why people can't hear sarcasm. It's just people can hear a cricket, that's for sure. Hold on a second.

Unknown Speaker 37:10
Oh, I did it, okay,

Scott Benner 37:13
but so, so just some people hear sarcasm and some people don't, because I didn't mean they know

Arden Benner 37:20
what's really interesting, I will openly say I feel superior to people who, like, are not sarcastic. Okay, you're comfortable

Unknown Speaker 37:30
saying that. No, I

Arden Benner 37:31
am, and you're not being sarcastic. No, I'm being 100% serious right now. Not like, Oh, I'm a better person than you, but like, I feel like there is a part of my brain that understands something that yours doesn't not that like, Oh, you're dumb, but it's just like, that part of me is you like,

Scott Benner 37:48
you have a skill someone else doesn't have. Okay?

Arden Benner 37:52
But I think it's interesting that it's not like, if you're not cricket, I know it's not like, Oh, you're not sarcastic, so you're stupid. It's just like, Oh, you're not sarcastic. But those people probably think that sarcasm is like a coping mechanism, or like a way we have to handle a situation. They probably think they're more superior for being, like, serious and being able to talk about something

Scott Benner 38:16
like we have to, Oh, yeah. So like, there's a misconception that you're only being sarcastic, because almost like when people say, cursing is for stupid people. I've

Arden Benner 38:24
never heard that before, and I love to curse, yeah, so

Unknown Speaker 38:27
hold on a second. Oh, cursing, so fun.

Scott Benner 38:29
What's the saying about why some people are sarcastic? The saying is, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence. So it's easy humor, but I don't understand what that means. Hold on a second. It's gonna explain. Well, you clearly don't have the highest form of intelligence. First of all, go yourself. Bang on that, dad. It's not working. Do it. Tell it to stop.

Speaker 1 38:57
Thank you. We should start an ASMR channel, an ASMR channel,

Arden Benner 39:02
that's all we should just, yeah, and then they like, whisper. They're like, Okay, today we're going to be doing and like, I would like put my fingernails up to the thing. I would just like start collecting them.

Scott Benner 39:14
That's that upsets me when I see people doing that. Well, guess

Arden Benner 39:17
what? A lot of people really enjoy that. So really, okay,

Scott Benner 39:19
so I'll just, lowest form of wit. This part

Arden Benner 39:24
there's something I wish, if there's one thing in my life I regret, it's that I was bringing that conversation that I just spoke at a lower time that needs to stop, right? Okay? Well, under

Scott Benner 39:33
lowest form of weight, it says this part suggests that SARS sarcasm can be seen as a cheaper, easy form of humor. It's often quick biting, and can come across as mean spirited or lazy, because it doesn't always require much thought or creativity be sarcastic. I

Arden Benner 39:49
don't believe the complete opposite of that. I don't believe being quick is really hard to do, really hard. I

Scott Benner 39:55
have what I heard somebody refer to recently. I heard somebody refer to i. Um, this recently is, oh, you have, um, talk show. You're thinking at talk show speed, like, when somebody's on a talk show and it's all very quick and bantery like that, and people can keep up and keep the conversation going, like, I move at that speed.

Unknown Speaker 40:13
You do too.

Scott Benner 40:16
Like you can, you're quick, yeah, yeah. And I see that as, I don't see that as as lazy, uh, highest form of intelligence. This part counters the first by implying that sarcasm actually requires a high level of cognitive interesting

Arden Benner 40:31
is that if people who move quickly and do all this stuff, sarcasm is considered mean, you move quick. I wonder if that's why I've been in the South for so long, that Southern people see northerners as so mean, it's because we're moving so quickly and we're just to the point like we get something done and then we we do the next thing. They do think we're being rude, and they think we're being rude, but we're being efficient. Yeah, move, move, move, go, go, go. And then them, when they take so long and do all this stuff, I'm like OmniPod. And then the way they speak, it sounds condescending to me because of how long they're taking to get their thought out.

Scott Benner 41:07
You think all the gaps and in when they're not talking is like a little you

Arden Benner 41:12
Yeah, a little bit. Because I would totally do that if I was like, you know, almost

Scott Benner 41:16
like they're making you stand there while they're not saying anything.

Arden Benner 41:22
Yeah, it's like, you I feel like you could walk up to a lady in the south and she'd be like, Oh, honey, I love your skirt. But if I said that to someone up here, they'd be like, you

Speaker 1 41:33
asshole, but you think she really loves your skirt. But it's hard to take that way. Yeah, it's really hard to take I

Scott Benner 41:41
understand says, Why are some people sarcastic? People who are sarcastic often have a good grasp of irony, and they are quick thinkers. They can see the incongruity between what is said and what is meant, and they use that to their advantage in communications. Sarcasm can serve as a social tool, allowing people to convey criticism, humor or disdain in a more veiled or socially acceptable way than outright confrontation. Some people use sarcasm as a defense mechanism. I don't I don't like it there as much. There. It feels dirtier

Speaker 1 42:12
to me. It's cheaper, but it's true.

Scott Benner 42:15
And then among friends or within certain social circles, sarcasm can be a way of bonding and showing affection. We heard that earlier, sarcasm can be a part of someone's natural communication style. It might be how they were raised, or the dominant form of humor in their social environment. I definitely grew up around a lot of sarcastic people, and when I don't, there are times when I'm being sarcastic in my personal life, and I stopped myself, and I think I shouldn't be talking like this, um, because I'm not trying to tax people around me and make my

Arden Benner 42:46
whole personality with certain people, especially like parents. I cannot be sarcastic around a lot of people's parents, they do not understand what I'm saying at all. Yeah. And then I'm like, Oh, you're gonna take your children away from me as

Scott Benner 43:00
their friends. Yeah. But the positives are that it can be witty and entertaining, provide a way to interject, indirectly address issues, fosters a sense of camaraderie. The negatives, it can be hurtful or misunderstood, especially if the recipient does not recognize the sarcasm. It may be seen as insincere or passive aggressive, and can erode trust and respect if overused or used inappropriately, I can see where people could find it to be passive aggressive if they didn't understand your intention. Interesting. So it says, In summary, sarcasm could be seen as low effort form of humor, but it's actually requires intelligence and social awareness. I agree I'm intelligent and socially aware. I think that I've had conversations that I mean one way that are taken completely differently by people. I think there are people in the world who have a vision of who I am that is completely incongruous with who I actually am because they don't hear the sarcasm. Do you think there are people walking around who don't really know you? I

Arden Benner 44:03
think most people don't know me. I think that even people who hear this podcast won't follow it, dude. No, that's not I was gonna say, Wow, he thinks poorly of you guys.

Unknown Speaker 44:15
That's not what I meant. Like, still

Arden Benner 44:16
don't understand me. Because, first off, this is, like, basically 35% of who I am is what I'm giving off right now, because you have to hide some of yourself. Okay, it's like, completely true, not because you're an ax murderer or something, no, just because people will interpret something wrong or right. You know, like part of entertainment is like getting people on your side a little bit, and you're trying to make them relate to you in a way. And people aren't always going to relate to like, right? They want to. They want to feel like you like. They want to be like, oh, like, we're similar. Okay, so

Speaker 1 44:51
you have to kind of like vibe with them, but that that's unrelated, so you

Scott Benner 44:57
try to match other people's energy, yeah. No, you try to give them the part of you they think that you think they can handle.

Arden Benner 45:04
Yes, because I've seen like, I've obviously been on the podcast before, and I'll see like, comments people make about an episode or whatever, and they're like, talking about me, and I'm like, wow, you have me really, completely wrong. And they're not saying anything bad, but it's just like, they're not right. Yeah, the way that they perceive me is so off. It's incredible. I recorded

Scott Benner 45:25
an episode today with a woman who's the way she thinks or almost doesn't think about me at all, even though she listens to the podcast. Was so freeing to me. I She said what she said, and I thought, This is great. I will never again. Wonder how people

Arden Benner 45:43
perceive me. I wonder how people perceive me.

Scott Benner 45:45
I realize that it doesn't matter, because so many different people are going to perceive me in so many different ways. Don't

Arden Benner 45:51
you want to know like, what it is like, how they see you? No, because

Scott Benner 45:53
different what I'm telling you is that different people see you different ways. So you're No, I know when people there are people listening, there are enough people listening to you right now while you're speaking, yeah, that you are being perceived in a multitude of ways, yeah, and in some ways that you can't even fathom. And so my point is, is that it's not worth wondering about.

Arden Benner 46:12
I know that's why. Like, sometimes I'll see like people and I don't completely agree with them, or honestly, like, I think less of them, because I'm like, wow, like, I don't agree with what you're saying or this or that, but I'm just like, I don't actually know what I'm like, you have to give them a chance, because you don't actually know, right? You don't know shit about anyone, right?

Scott Benner 46:33
Exactly. Yeah, you're probably wrong about most of the things you think about other people's intentions and their thoughts. Yeah, that's my expectation. Because if I'm holding something back, so is everybody else right? Yeah,

Arden Benner 46:47
I think the only people I'm not that way with is like, like, our family, like, I feel like I understand what our what everyone would

Scott Benner 46:54
say. I don't think that I change very drastically, depending on my surroundings. And, like you said earlier, maybe that's a problem in some places, but in one place where it helps is like, with you, or your friends come over, or Cole's friends come over, like, I think your friends find this house comfortable, yeah, because there's no pretense between us and them. Yeah, I'm not pretending to be like an adult or smarter than that. I

Arden Benner 47:20
don't change who I am. I conceal who I am.

Unknown Speaker 47:25
I don't bother doing that. So like,

Arden Benner 47:28
I'll be, I actually don't think that I've ever been 100% of who I am with anyone. I think only myself. And then I'll give like 95% of myself to people. And then I'll give like 90% of myself, or whatever, like I would say, like our family as a whole probably knows 90% of me. So

Scott Benner 47:45
this is very interesting, because I always think I've made so many episodes of the podcast, and I am genuinely talking while I'm on the podcast, like the things that I say about how I feel about people, or how I feel about helping people, that stuff's all very genuine. Yeah. And I always think I wonder if my family listened to this, if they believe this is me or not. No,

Unknown Speaker 48:07
I believe that. Yeah, it's interesting.

Scott Benner 48:09
I know. I'm never sure exactly. Wait, can

Speaker 1 48:11
I pause this to crack my neck? Why don't you just crack your neck on the microphone and then we'll stop. Go ahead. Wait. Why stop? Oh, okay, then just crack your neck. Okay. Your neck was disturbing. When we're done recording, let's

Scott Benner 48:23
go back to two minutes and and

Speaker 1 48:26
two hours, two minutes and see if we can hear it.

Scott Benner 48:31
I have to admit that on the GLP meds, I was hoping your cracking would get better, because it's, it's um, we'll

Unknown Speaker 48:37
talk about something wrong.

Scott Benner 48:39
We'll talk about on another show, but I'm seeing I'm having all these people on the podcast that are having all these different like, Revelations with their health, or on glps. It's really interesting. Can

Arden Benner 48:49
I tell you an episode I want to do? Yeah, that I just thought about like I was thinking about it like I would say 15 minutes ago. You're gonna be so confused why it just came up. Go ahead. Do you know who Bridget Mendler is?

Scott Benner 49:03
She sings a song that was popular one summer hurricane,

Arden Benner 49:06
hurricane, and she was on Disney Channel and all that. Okay, we need to just talk about Bridget Mendler lore. Is

Scott Benner 49:15
it because you don't understand it? No,

Arden Benner 49:17
it's because it's so fascinating. Okay, she is so fascinating, and it like she was on Disney Channel, but adults who are listening will really enjoy this. She's a she's a full grown adult now. She has a family, she's married, but this girl went from being like a Disney Channel sensation to going to Harvard and MIT. She has like, multiple doctorates. I think people want her to, like, run for president. It's like this whole thing that's interesting, and we need to look into her. All right, we'll do that. She wrote hit song hurricanes.

Unknown Speaker 49:58
Ready on here. Huh, really.

Scott Benner 50:03
Also at some point we're going to do, what happens when you lose weight? Where does it go?

Unknown Speaker 50:08
Okay, all right,

Scott Benner 50:10
does that sarcasm you're okay? Or were you really disappointed on me for changing the subject that harshly? No, neither of those are true. What did the okay mean? I

Arden Benner 50:21
was, I was just gonna say something else, and I didn't say so

Scott Benner 50:24
most people, when they tell me, I love when Arden's on the podcast, because I feel like I can hear her eyes roll back.

Speaker 1 50:33
When you're like, uh, that I'm not an I'm not an iron but you're not an eye roller. I know,

Arden Benner 50:39
but a lot of I'll just look at you and say, okay, but

Scott Benner 50:41
a lot of people say that to me. I can, I can feel Arden's eyes roll back in her head when you're talking wrong. This is

Arden Benner 50:49
what I'm saying. People do not understand me at all.

Scott Benner 50:51
But do we understand anybody? And does anybody understand I will see people

Arden Benner 50:56
comment things like, Oh, my kids do this to me too. I have a 14 year old who says the same thing to me, and I'm like, Oh, you don't understand. I'm kidding.

Scott Benner 51:06
What if their kids kidding? And they don't understand that. Now, if they're kid's serious, you're joking, yeah, I'm

Arden Benner 51:10
kidding. We like, I don't think people understand how similar we are. So there are things that I'm saying, and I mean it on a completely different level than what's coming out of my mouth. But they're thinking, like, oh my kid says that, but I'm like, Oh no, your kid doesn't say this, because what's coming out of my mouth is not what I'm saying right. Now,

Scott Benner 51:27
you and I are incredibly similar, yeah, the way we think, yeah, yeah, okay. All right, well, let's go kill that cricket. All right, okay, all right, we'll find it together. Thank you for doing this with me, helping bye.

I'd like to thank cozy Earth for sponsoring this episode of The juicebox podcast and remind you that using my offer code juicebox at checkout will save you 40% off of your entire order@cozyearth.com that's the sheets, the towels, the clothing, anything available on the website. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. AG, one drink. AG, one.com/juicebox, you can start your day the same way I do with a delicious drink of Ag, one, the juicebox podcast is full of so many series that you want and need after dark, ask Scott and Jenny. Algorithm, pumping bold beginnings, defining diabetes, defining thyroid, the diabetes Pro Tip series for type one, the diabetes variables series, mental wellness, type two diabetes pro tip, how we eat? Oh, my goodness, there so much at juicebox podcast.com head up into that menu and pick around. And if you're in the private Facebook group, just go to the feature tab for lists upon lists of all the series. Always free, always helpful. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that, it really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The juicebox podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongwayrecording.com. You.

#1314 Simple Minds

Carrie has had type 1 since she was four years old.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and, oh, you know, I just took a vitamin. It feels like it's stuck. I never happened to you. Sorry. Hello friends and welcome to the next episode of The juicebox podcast. For fun, I'm going to use the old music today. Here we go.

Speaker 1 0:22
You got Carrie

Scott Benner 0:25
today. She's had type one diabetes, oh, gee, since she's four and a half years old. She's 50 now, and she hasn't for most of her life with type one known a lot about diabetes, but she's beginning to learn now, nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. When you place your first order for ag one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. Ag one.com/juice, box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juicebox at checkout. That's juicebox at checkout to save 40 percent@cozyearth.com this vitamin is still kind of stuck. But have you ever burped after taking a capsule and had the dust from the vitamin come out? Very disconcerting, if it ever happens to you, juice What am I supposed to tell you? Oh, if you have type one diabetes, or you're the caregiver of someone with type one and you're a US resident, please go to touched by type one.org/juice box and complete the survey. That's it. US resident who has diabetes or is the caregiver, go complete that survey touched by type one.org/juice box. The episode you're about to listen to was sponsored by touched by type one. Go check them out right now on Facebook, Instagram, and, of course, at touched by type one.org check out that Programs tab when you get to the website to see all the great things that they're doing for people living with type one diabetes. Touched by type one.org. This episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by Eversense. The Eversense CGM is more convenient, requiring only one sensor every six months. It offers more flexibility with its easy on, easy off, smart transmitter, and allows you to take a break when needed. Eversense cgm.com/juicebox. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries, gvoke hypopen. Find out more at gvoke glucagon.com. Forward slash juice box.

Carrie 2:33
I'm Carrie Larson, 50 years old, iPad type one since I was four and a half. So that's all I know. It's, it's, to me, it's just,

Scott Benner 2:44
that's all you know about everything. Carrie or you, you mean, diabetes is all you know. That's, that's

Carrie 2:49
all i Yes, diabetes is all I know. It's literally part of my daily life. It was like, sometimes I do feel like that's all I know about everything. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 2:57
It was like, you put the calm in the wrong place. You're like, and I died in that cell. And I was like, Okay,

Carrie 3:02
I yeah, I tend to do that

Unknown Speaker 3:04
50

Scott Benner 3:06
years old, yeah, so I can help myself here. I was born in 71 so you were probably born in like 72 or 73 three, uh huh, right? And then you were four and a half when you were diagnosed, that was like 77 just missed the bicentennial. Wouldn't that have been lovely, right? Yes. So any brothers or sisters,

Carrie 3:29
I was adopted, so I do not know any family history, which yeah and yeah, and all doctors and everybody I always go to, always look at me like, oh, okay, so you know, but yeah, no, I don't have

Scott Benner 3:41
nothing to say. Do you have any adopted brothers and sisters? No, I do not. Your parents, one kid got you, and they're like, this is enough.

Carrie 3:51
Yeah, you know what I and you know what's funny is, even though I'm a mom of three, my dad still lectures me daily about how it's really smart to only have one child. Even in front of my children, he'll do that, and I'm like, Um, hello.

Unknown Speaker 4:05
How old your father? How old's your father?

Carrie 4:07
He's 8383 he thinks he knows everything. He'll tell you. He's the fountain of knowledge, literally. Well, I

Scott Benner 4:15
don't know how that's possible, and I'm the one who knows everything, but that's fine.

Carrie 4:21
You guys are your own breed, I swear.

Scott Benner 4:23
Has he designated which of your children were the mistakes, or does he not go that far?

Carrie 4:27
No, he doesn't take it that far. Thank God. Now

Scott Benner 4:31
you I told her not to have you

Carrie 4:33
exactly. Yeah, no, he definitely doesn't go that far. It's funny because he has brown eyes, and I always tell him how I know he's so bullish is because His eyes are brown.

Scott Benner 4:43
My goodness, that's fantastic. The kids take this in stride. How old are your children?

Carrie 4:48
So our oldest is our daughter, Miranda. She's 27 and then the middle is Brandon, and he is 24 and the baby is 18, and. Um, he's Charlie. I

Scott Benner 5:01
love your your father's over there going, you guys, look what you've done to her. Like, seriously, yeah, no, she would have had just one. Everything would have been so much better. Meanwhile, how you doing with three kids? Okay, um,

Carrie 5:14
good, yeah, no, good. That definitely keep me on my toes. And, yeah, no, they're in, like, my world. I wouldn't know what to do without them.

Scott Benner 5:23
Of course, any of them have any autoimmune stuff?

Unknown Speaker 5:26
No, no,

Carrie 5:28
I definitely the more I've been learning. It's so funny, because you think after 48 years with the disease, that I probably would have already looked into this. I was taught, actually, for a very long time that the father's gene passes it on. And I don't know, I still don't know if that's true. I don't even do you know. I have no idea.

Scott Benner 5:48
That sounds like made up. But who told you that your dad because he's been wrong about a couple of other things already?

Carrie 5:54
Actually, I did read it, like in a medical journal. I think we used to live in England for a period of time, and I think I was in a doctor's office, and there was like a magazine, and I remember reading it. And I don't know if it was just like a recent study that had been done, type thing, or what, you know, but I just remember reading that. And so for the longest time, that's what I believed. But now that I've been exposed to more, actually, to the juicebox podcast and to just making friends online that are type one. I'm like, this is clearly has never been true and is not true, you know, So anyhow, but it's something I've thought about, is getting them tested.

Scott Benner 6:37
Yeah? I mean, yeah, you could definitely get them tested, but I don't see why it would be from one side or the other. Keeping in mind, I slept through a lot of high school, but I still don't that doesn't make sense to me.

Unknown Speaker 6:49
Never. Right, right?

Carrie 6:50
Okay, yeah, no, yeah, I agree too. Because it's just like, why would that be more dominant than I mean, you know, yeah, I agree. I

Scott Benner 6:59
mean, is that a thing you heard like, 40 years ago, kind of a deal. Um,

Carrie 7:03
it's, oh god, yeah, it's been at least 20 or 30 years ago, definitely, yeah. Oh

Scott Benner 7:08
geez, I would say, yeah. I mean, listen, we don't know what we were doing 30

Carrie 7:13
years ago, right? Oh, well, this is why I'd love to use diabetes for this. Example. Is I feel like I was diagnosed in the dark ages. I mean, no, I wasn't not using glass syringes. But there, maybe we didn't even test glucose level, blood glucose levels at home. You know, all of that was done at home or at the hospital, Children's Hospital, LA is where I was treated for many, many years. And so we, we only used ketone urine sticks, you know. So I feel like now looking at technology and how it's advanced, I just feel like that was definitely Dark Ages, you know,

Scott Benner 7:50
yeah, yeah, that's something I Yeah, you see you missed. I mean, that's a long time ago, 40 some years. You were right. You were definitely like, beef and pork insulin, though, right? Uh

Carrie 8:02
huh. In fact, it was, it was, I want to say it was pork based. It was mph and regular. And the MPH was cloudy. You had to, like, warm it up in your hands and mix it, you know. And then the regular was just like, you could still buy good old fashioned regular nowadays, over the counter without a prescription, I believe, sure, and then we would mix the two. It wasn't two different injections. My mom would draw up one first and then the other, and it was one injection. But that's definitely how it started for me, for sure. You

Scott Benner 8:33
remember when you went to a faster acting and a separate like basal insulin, like Lantus, if you take insulin or Sulfonyl ureas. You are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most, be ready with G voc, hypo pen. My daughter carries G, VO, kypo Pen everywhere she goes, because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar in people with diabetes ages two and above that, I trust low blood sugar. Emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, jivo kypopen can be administered in two simple steps, even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store GEVO kypopin and how to use it. They need to know how to use GVO kypopen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why GEVO kypo Pen is in Arden's diabetes toolkit at gvoke, glucagon.com/juicebox, gvoke shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma, or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma, visit gvoke, glucagon.com/risk, for safety information.

Carrie 9:51
You know, I did that, and you know at the time, it was only two injections a day. It wasn't even more than that, which was strange, I didn't I. Moved to four injections a day until much, much later in life. In fact, I want to say my whole teenage years, I stopped going to Children's Hospital, literally when I was 18, they're like, Okay, you you can't come here anymore. And I felt like I had been kicked to the curb. You know, for that many years, 14 years, I was definitely still on two injections a day. I remember my endo at the time trying to talk me into a pump, and I was scared to death of it. It just the thought of it scared me to no end. And so, no, I don't remember when I moved to a faster acting insulin. I think I went straight though from like, I don't remember. I honestly, I can't, I can't even put my finger on it

Scott Benner 10:47
interesting. Do you have trouble with memory, or is it just been that long ago?

Carrie 10:50
I feel like it's just been that long ago, but, but I do feel like my memory does challenging, does challenge me, and I also feel like things that I have been hearing and reading lately, that part of that could be maybe connected to the type one

Scott Benner 11:09
could be, right, yeah, what would you know or recall what your control, your management, was like through your first say, 20 years?

Carrie 11:18
I have no I couldn't give you a 1c numbers. I know that definitely my mom and I always battled my morning. My mornings always ran high in the two hundreds. Without a doubt. I have no idea a 1c wise. I want to say that I like steadily ran in the

eighth. And I know that not terrible, that

it's not great, but back then, it probably was okay.

Scott Benner 11:47
Do you know what okay meant? Like, what were they shooting for? Oh, gosh, I want to say that anything

Carrie 11:57
like eight and under was okay. Like, I don't, I don't remember them ever talking about a low, like being too low, or what normal was.

Unknown Speaker 12:05
Yeah,

Scott Benner 12:07
they were just trying to stop from being too high. Exactly.

Carrie 12:10
It was, in fact, back then, I remember the highs were the focus, and not the lows, so to speak. And now I feel like I've seen several in those throughout my history of having diabetes, that they're definitely more concerned now about lows than they than they are highs. I mean, especially if you I mean, they're concerned about highs, if they're prolonged, but they're their biggest worry are the lows. They definitely they would rather, actually, I think that most indos would rather see you run a little high than too low. And my experience, anyways, yeah,

Scott Benner 12:53
I mean, I think that's basically the perspective they come from. It's interesting, because I don't love that, that mindset, honestly.

Carrie 13:04
Yeah, you know, I don't either, the the more experience I have, and because I've had so many complications, I don't either. And it's really bizarre. I mean, this is I'm really jumping off subject kind of right now, but let's like, eight years ago, I had a heart attack, and it was definitely due to uncontrolled blood sugars. Wow. Yeah, I was 42 years old. He immediately the cardiologist was like, this is definitely why, you know, no doubt about it, because my husband and I were like, what? 42 year old comes in the hospital and, you know, I Yeah, and so it was really scary time in my life. But I really, I learned very quickly that a patient who has had a heart attack, who is type one, a low is actually scarier than running high, because it's harder on your heart. Hmm,

Scott Benner 13:59
okay, wait, we have a lot to pick through here. Kerry, right? I

Carrie 14:04
know, right? I know I've given you a lot at once.

Scott Benner 14:05
No, no, let me start. Let me start with this. So you obviously, you were diagnosed in a different time, and you're using the basically, you know, you were eating at certain times of day. That was it. You weren't, you weren't checking your blood sugar. I don't even know if a 1c were that, like, you know, prominent at that point,

Carrie 14:25
they were actually, they did draw. But you know, my it was my hugest fear when I was a kid going to see the end, though, is I would literally, literally, out loud, vague, not to have my blood drawn because I was so afraid of having it. But anyhow, so he always made a deal with me every other visit. Well, every visit was about every three months, and so we would do that. But so yes, a one C's, I mean, they definitely did draw for them, okay,

Scott Benner 14:50
Ben, but you were shooting for eight.

Carrie 14:55
I think if I remember correctly, yes, I want to say eight sounded. Like something that they were happy to see, gotcha,

Scott Benner 15:01
and then you live like that for how long? Like so question, the real question is like, When do you go to a modern management the first modern management shift? What age? Right? Yeah,

Carrie 15:15
I honestly feel like it was very many years. I think that modern management truly didn't happen for me until late, late teens. No, actually, I'm gonna go ahead and say early 20s. So

Scott Benner 15:32
like college age, like graduating from college age? Did you go to college? No, I did not. Okay, so around around, like Tommy, I

Carrie 15:40
let me, let me back step a little bit. I did. I I went to trade school. Okay, so, yeah, I didn't go to a traditional, you know, like two year or four year program, just, I just did a trade. Do

Scott Benner 15:52
you practice the trade now?

Carrie 15:53
I don't. Ever since I, my husband and I decided to, well, we moved out of the country I couldn't work in the country that we lived in. And so, no, I don't, and I haven't since I had children.

Scott Benner 16:06
You couldn't work in the country you lived in. I know doesn't that sound so third world. What context? Where were you England, and England wouldn't let you work. Because what you were, you didn't have a visa,

Carrie 16:20
a visa, yeah, I was, I was just there as my husband. Well, we weren't even married when we first started going, but we we were engaged, but no they I would have to apply separately from him. And even once we were married, I would have had to apply separately from him, gotcha. So he was the provider, and I just and I that's how they saw it.

Scott Benner 16:44
What trade Did you study? Actually Registered Dental Assisting? Okay, all right, yeah, yeah. So you did that at some point or no, You never actually did it.

Carrie 16:54
I did. I did it, and that was all stateside. I mean, when we, when we lived here in the United States, yes, I did, but when

Scott Benner 17:01
you ran away from the government to England, then you couldn't donate, exactly, right? Yeah, exactly, because you guys are spies. What is the exact real answer?

Carrie 17:09
My husband actually used to race motorcycles professionally, and so that's where it was most popular. Was in England. And it's actually like they he had, he signed a contract to race for a team. It's Team Racing, and it's a season that would generally last from early spring to about October. So we were gone.

Scott Benner 17:32
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Carrie 19:12
no, this one was definitely special, for sure, for sure. That's funny. Did

Scott Benner 19:17
your parents hate him? No, really, with motorcycles and everything. Yeah,

Carrie 19:22
and my dad's a collector of old cars, and the first time he met Josh, he handed him a set of keys to drive one of his cars, and I my jaw hit the floor, so he definitely loved him. Oh,

Scott Benner 19:31
okay, all right. Well, yeah, yeah, your dad's got a specific opinion, so that's fine,

Carrie 19:36
definitely. Oh, by far.

Scott Benner 19:38
So now I've got you going in your early 20s to probably Atlantis and Humalog or something like that. Yes, and you're counting carbs now, all of a sudden. Was that a big shift that you recall? Or do you not? How do you think of

Carrie 19:51
it? Yes, it was a big shift. The whole carb thing. In fact, I didn't even know that they affected your blood sugar. That's how when. I was diagnosed, I remember, and it's so funny, because I, believe it or not, I can remember my mom, she they did everything by exchanges and just looking at a portion type thing, which I suppose in certain ways. I know it's been years since I've seen a dietitian, but I know, you know, like they use the palm of your hand, like, this is like three to four ounces of protein is ideal for a meal, so to speak. But the carb thing definitely was new to me, and it was kind of like learning diabetes all over again, to be honest.

Scott Benner 20:31
Do you recall what happened there? Did your a 1c, go up or down? How was your control up? Okay?

Carrie 20:37
I mean, I do know. I do clearly remember, like when I was in the hospital and I had my heart attack eight years ago. I was at a maybe even 11, but it was definitely a 10 something and a 1c Yes.

Scott Benner 20:52
So at 42 years old, having had diabetes now for 38 some years, you were Yes. You had an A, 1c in the 10s at least, yes, did you not know how to do it better? Or did you try what I get you there? I

Carrie 21:09
didn't. I actually didn't know how to do it better. And it's not that I didn't care, but like other things in life, were, were more important to me. I know that sounds terrible, but I just, I think I was over it, and I think, and I had started a pump. I've been on a pump for 24 years now, and so I literally got the pump, and I figured, oh, it's giving me insulin 24 hours a day. I still don't need to, like, I could this. Can do all the work for me. I don't need to do anything.

Scott Benner 21:44
Carrie, did you know that wasn't true? Or do you just like to ignore it and hope that it would do something? I

Carrie 21:51
felt like, well, it for one it was a hell of a lot better than just being on two injections a day.

Scott Benner 21:56
So you're judging everything against where you started, instead of against a valuable outcome for your health? Yeah,

Carrie 22:04
I see I said, definitely guilty of that. Okay,

Scott Benner 22:07
where were you during your pregnancies? A one C's, um, England, actually, no, I'm sorry. You're a 1c my fault. Like, where did you keep your a 1c during your pregnancies?

Carrie 22:17
They were in the seven and eight.

Scott Benner 22:20
How did you do that, versus the 10s and elevens? Because

Carrie 22:24
I had really, I was actually pregnant. All three of my pregnancies were in England. I saw really good endocrinologist. One in particular I remember with my middle son, or actually, maybe it was with the baby. He really drilled it into me. He's like, you have got this has got to be at least. And this is funny, because now this is 18 years ago, yeah, you have to be at least an eight or better. He said, I would love to see you like in a seven or six. But he says, You cannot go above an eight.

Scott Benner 22:58
Can you hear Jenny having a stroke right now. Like we said, yeah, right. So, like, so now it's in the they want you in the fives for pregnancy. I

Carrie 23:08
know, yeah, and, and, I mean, I'm, I mean, just FYI, I'm a 6.7 right now, right? And for me, that's, like, one of my that's my lowest a 1c ever. Oh, it's great that I know of Yeah. So it's that's a big deal for me, especially from where I came from, sure. Not that I can't imagine being in the fives. And I would love to get, like, in the low sixes, for sure. Well,

Scott Benner 23:37
I mean, think back when you were 10. Could you imagine being in the sixes? No,

Carrie 23:40
no, yeah, I would have, I probably would have told you. Are you kidding me? I'd be dead on the floor, thinking that was just the mentality. So, yeah, I didn't, and I didn't know better. My mom didn't even know better. Sure, sure. It's funny what I can teach because my mom was very, very involved with my care. It's funny what I teach her now. When I tell her things, and she's like, No, she I mean, if I tell her right now, like, Hey, Mom, oh, my blood sugar's 85 Oh, my God, that's too low. You need to go eat something. And I'm like, I feel fine. And she goes, No, no, you need Mom, mom, I promise you, I'm okay. Like, trying to retrain her brain, like, to be like, that is, I might not even be possible. Let's

Scott Benner 24:19
just have your dad tell her he's right about everything. So it'll be fun. Well, okay, wait a second. What are your complications? Besides the heart attack, which obviously is massive, but like, what else has befell you? Let's

Carrie 24:34
see. So I have retinopathy. I've had several laser surgeries on my eyes, both eyes and every and everything is stable, which I'm, you know, thankful for. And I'm not my my vision is not compromised because of it, but just it was just scary to have it, just have them finally say, Oh yeah, there's definitely signs of retinopathy. I went for many years without those signs up until probably about five years. Go, and then let's see. And then what else I feel like everything I'm learning is definitely related to the diabetes, like with the trigger fingers and dupe trends, disease in my hands. Yeah, that's all related, for sure. And that's once again, under control. I did have surgery on my right hand. Best thing I did to have that stop, and then let's see what else? My God, the retinopathy, the dupu trends, and the trigger fingers, the heart attack.

Scott Benner 25:32
You don't have to add more. That's fair amount. But do you feel like there's other things that have happened that you're not recalling at the moment?

Carrie 25:39
I do. I feel like there's a couple little things I missed I'm missing. Do you have any

Scott Benner 25:42
neuropathy in your feet or your hands? No,

Carrie 25:45
no, okay, and I hate telling you no, because I feel like I'm jinxing myself, just because I feel like, my god after this

Scott Benner 25:53
not how it works. Don't worry. You can't Jinx yourself.

Carrie 25:56
I don't know. I don't know if you anyhow, but I just sometimes I'm like, Oh, okay. I mean, my hand falls asleep when I'm asleep at night, I'm wake up and I'm like, messaging my Endo. Like, oh my god. He's like, Carrie, it's okay. He goes. I really don't think that's what it is okay. Thank you. But yeah, I feel like, now I've had enough complications to where now anything happens. I'm like, it's got to be the diabetes. You know.

Lija Greenseid 26:24
Are you nervous for more to happen? Not

Carrie 26:26
really. To be honest with you, I feel like the heart attack was enough to make me not make me think or believe. And I trust me, I know I'm at higher risk now for having another one just because, simply because I've had one, even though I'm in good control. No, I'm not. I'm not. I feel like at this point, I could handle what was thrown at me, so to speak. I say that now,

Scott Benner 26:55
what did the heart attack reveal? Were there blockages they had to take care of

Carrie 26:59
there? Were, I have, I feel like I really got lucky there too. I only have one stent placed. I didn't have to have, you know, like open heart surgery. I didn't have to have bypass or anything like that. I had one stent placed. But they definitely were quick to tell me that there is another possible, not possible. There is other blockages, but they're not a great percentage enough, and I didn't say that, right, but they're not enough to do anything about yet. At this point, it would be too dangerous to do any it's more dangerous to do something about it than to leave it alone. Yeah, at first, that really freaked me out. But so, I mean, I definitely took, you know, the diabetes, and really, really worked hard for a long time between me and my endo to get that a 1c down. I mean, we were tweaking left and right, and so I'm much more confident about that, hopefully not ever needing to be a problem, or, you know, where they have to go in and do more stents. So, yeah, so I don't think I'm nervous waiting for something else.

Scott Benner 28:10
Can you tell me what it felt like, like? What was the lead up to the heart attack? Did you feel unwell for days? Did it come on quickly?

Carrie 28:18
It was for days, actually. I mean, and then it's so weird when something like that happens to you, you really take the time to sit and look back and think, I've been having signs for a long time that something wasn't right. Yeah, I mean, I want to say for maybe

Scott Benner 28:33
a good three to four months. Oh, no kidding, tell me about it. What was happening. So

Carrie 28:40
it was every time I would eat a big meal and my biggest meal, and still to this day, my biggest meal is dinner, and that's when I would notice it the most. And I would eat dinner, and within a half an hour, I would get this weird pressure from my forearms down to the tips of my fingers on both arms, and it was just like it never pained, but it was just like this immense pressure, and it would take, like, a complete hour for it to dissipate and kind of relax and go away. And so it was just weird, and it was very religious. It did that for, like, I said, a good three or four months. And I remember at one point even saying to my teenage daughter at the time, like, maybe I need to call a doctor and let them know I'm having this symptom. Like, what is this about eating, you know, especially dinner time. And then I recall like we had taken the family to a movie, and we had, we had eaten dinner, gone to the movies, and sitting in the movie theater, and all of a sudden I just wasn't I wasn't nauseous, I wasn't headache, but I something just wasn't right. I just so I felt like I needed to get up and kind of walk around. So I did. I excused myself from the theater and went out and walked a little bit. I. Kind of wouldn't went in the ladies restroom and just kind of stood there like, what the heck? What that actually, I wasn't, what the heck. And I'm like, What the hell is? What's going on, you know? And I don't even remember exactly what I was feeling like. I said it was just something just was off the night that I think that I actually had the heart attack. It was actually Christmas Eve, 2015 and actually the day before, and we had gone out to dinner with the family, and we went back home, and here comes these symptoms in my forearms, and this time it didn't dissipate, and the pressure was worse, and I was really restless. I couldn't get comfortable. Once I tried to go to bed, I just, I couldn't. I was tired, but I couldn't sleep, and just super restless. Something wasn't right. But once again, I didn't know what. Apart from, my arms were aching terribly, both arms, and it like, Yes, both arms. And just like I said, from the form from my elbow down to the tips of my fingers. Never liked up, ever I went through the night tossing and turning, and finally, the next afternoon, or actually that morning, I woke up, and I'm totally sick to my stomach even. So I'm testing my blood sugar like manually, and I think at that point, the highest my blood sugar got was, like, 220 so, I mean, I know for some people, that's like, Oh, my God, that would be kind of a normal high, so to speak, when I get high, right? So I knew it wasn't high, like, something like, Okay, this is definitely diabetes related. I'm like, like, this is weird. You know, there wasn't, like, I was in DKA or something like that, or I just, I So anyhow, I just, and at that point, my husband's like, you know what? Through this, we're going to the hospital. And then I flipped my lid, because I'm scared to death of other people's needles besides my own, and I knew that he would do every test to me known to man. Sure enough, he got me into the emergency room, and as soon as he told them my symptoms, they rushed me straight back. My EKG was completely normal. And it wasn't until they drew blood and got my results back that they saw the blood level or the that I had heart they're like, you had a heart attack, and I'm like, I for one, I didn't believe them. I was in complete denial that that was what happened anyhow, yeah, that's, that's my heart attack story, and it was Gary as hell. Okay,

Scott Benner 32:29
how long did we cover till I was back to,

Carrie 32:34
I mean, I don't know, like a week or so, like, to where I wasn't, like, completely exhausted. And, you know, of course, they put me on all kinds of new meds, and so adjusting to all that, yeah, yeah, I think I was, I was really okay quite quickly, to be honest. I think a lot of it has to do with because they immediately, you know, alleviate that blockage. So it was pretty quick. Probably more than anything, the medication is what mess messes with you more than anything, because they've got you on blood pressure, on cholesterol and all those have so many side effects that they're in their D ones you know care.

Scott Benner 33:11
Can I ask you a question today, years later, what is your understanding of how your diabetes gave you these heart issues

Carrie 33:21
running too high for way too many years. But

Scott Benner 33:24
do you know functionally, how that happens? No, I do. I was just wondering if they told you that's all. No, okay, nope. So what happens is an elevated blood sugar. There's, you know, more glucose in your blood than is supposed to be there, and it right. It rubs veins, arteries, everything, everywhere blood flows is being kind of scraped by the extra glucose in there, okay? And eventually you wear thin somewhere, right, right. Then your body patches it over, okay. And then it wears thin, and it patches it over. And before you know what the patches block, the passageway, gotcha, that's what happens. So when, when people Yeah, yeah. So one has ever explained that to me? Yep, Bob, it's interesting, right? Because if, if it was your vision, right? Oh, I'm losing my vision. Well, that's the same thing as having a heart attack. So interesting. Rub rub through patch over, rub through patch over. More patching, more patching, more patching blocks the flow, and now that suddenly that that pathway doesn't do what it's supposed to do anymore. In the case of a heart attack, it's not delivering blood or returning whatever to your to your heart and in your eyes, it could just be, you know, choking off little capillaries that kind of when it's neuropathy, same thing. Okay, totally.

Carrie 34:45
It makes sense, though. Yeah.

Scott Benner 34:47
So I used to talk about on the podcast more often, but what I would basically say is that when your blood sugar's too high, now listen if it goes up to 150 and comes back down at dinner time, this is not what's happening to you. But if. It's, you know, if it's 150 for the rest of your life, if it's 220 all the time, that kind of stuff, you're sandblasting yourself from the inside out, yeah, pretty much what you're doing. And so, you know, if someone says, you know, at the end of your life, like, oh, they had a stroke, you know, due to type one diabetes, they had a heart attack due to type one diabetes, they lost their foot because of it. They their kidneys stop working. It's all the same problem, too much, too much sugar in your blood, right, right? And not enough sugar in your blood. And you know what happens? Then your brain shuts off. Exactly, yeah? So exactly? What a fun balance, yeah, yeah. Isn't it crazy? Like, basically, the glucose is the it's the energy that your brain runs off of. It's so true. Yeah, too much of it, you get

Carrie 35:46
crazy, yeah? Well, it always, it always blows my mind how long it takes to recover from a low blood sugar, sometimes more than, not longer than others, you know. But, and then it trips me out. Well, it doesn't trip me out. I just feel like they just don't understand that. People don't understand that around me, you know, so

Scott Benner 36:04
far, the most fascinating thing about your story, to me is that you've had diabetes for like, almost 50 years, and you don't know that much about it. You know what? I don't Yeah, you're the only one, Carrie, I'm not coming down on you. Like, this is just yeah, how it is? Yeah,

Carrie 36:19
no, I swear to you, I learned more on because of social media. And, you know, social media gets so shamed and so put down these days, and but my I for me. I'm like bullshit. I've learned I, I feel like my access to learning more about type one would be gone, you know, if I if

Scott Benner 36:43
it wasn't for that, let me share this with you. My father in law ends up in the hospital a couple weeks ago, and he went to a local hospital that I can't believe he went to, because as soon as he got there, I was like, they're going to kill him. And like, not, it's not a great place, right? And so he comes home a few days later with zero answers to any of his questions. But they took him off all of his medications. You know, case one of these is doing it. And you know, some of those medications Carrie he takes because he's in congestive heart failure. 76 years old. He had a heart attack when he was 50. He's a lifelong smoker, till he had his heart attack, you know, like, that kind of stuff. Like, he, he's been kept alive by these medications, right? You know, 76 years old, the, you know, the guy in the white coat told him to take, not take this medicine anymore. He stopped taking it, and not like, three days later, he's back in the hospital. This time we got him to a good one. His body's retaining water. He's got to go on lasix. He's, you know, he's, he's in heart failure, because he's, you know, right? Has congestive heart failure, and the only thing keeping it alive is this medication, so we get them all straight. My wife and I are down there talking to him yesterday, and I just finally thought, like, this is no different than the podcast. I was like, Dad, you understand why this happened? You know, like, thinking it's obvious, right? Like, he's got congestive heart failure, he takes medication to keep it at bay. These new medications for congestive heart failure are freaking amazing. Like, you could, like, right kind of live for goddamn ever with congestive heart failure, it feels like right and but without it, he's gonna die and die pretty quickly, right? He did not know. He didn't understand what the medication was for. I don't know that. He knew that congestive heart failure meant that he would die without the medication. Like it was fascinating to see, like he doesn't know what's happening to him, but then you don't either, so most people don't

Carrie 38:31
know, you know. And it's so funny, because I really consider myself I'm a huge advocate for advocate for yourself when it comes to medical professionals, because I I mean no disrespect, but sometimes I feel like, when it comes to my diabetes, they don't know. I mean, this sounds so disrespectful, but I just feel like, over the years, if I did everything they said, I don't know. I just, I don't agree with a lot of it. Carrie,

Scott Benner 39:06
how much do you think you need to know about congestive heart failure not to take a 76 year old man off his congestive heart failure medication? Yeah,

Carrie 39:13
that's that's me. That blows my mind too. Once I have a grandmother who battled it years ago and died because of it. So I am a little familiar, just a little what the disease?

Scott Benner 39:23
It shouldn't blow your mind at all. Karen, it shouldn't blow your mind at all.

Carrie 39:28
It just, I'm just like, You got to be kidding me. I mean, I've actually been in the hospital for something that wasn't related to my type one, and I literally, I was almost going to discharge myself, because they wouldn't treat a low a low for me, yeah, and I could, and my blood sugar was 50 and dropping, and I'm like, okay, either I go home right now and I'm going to be treating myself as I walk out of here, because I'm going to go find where you keep your apple juice, or you are. Because you have, I can't give you control of my diabetes. I refuse to. I had to actually sign legal paperwork to say that I was in charge. I'm

Scott Benner 40:06
going to tell you that I don't know that it really matters what we're talking about. It could be politics. It could be it could be, you know, your local school district making some very strange decision. It could be my, it could be my, my local municipality who decided that they won't take my recycling if it's in the wrong color bin. And then when I say to them, what am I going to do with all this recycling here? Kara, you haven't heard this. This is the thing I've ranted about in a recording. It hasn't come out yet, but I had all this extra recycling because they didn't take my recycling because it was in the wrong color bin. And I said, Well, what am I supposed to do with all this recycling? You guys only come twice a month? And she said, you know, store it on your property until next month. And I said, Well, I won't. I have no ways to put it, and even if I did, I'll have too much like because I don't have enough bins that are the right color. And as I'm having this ridiculous conversation right about the colors of trash cans, the person on the phone offers to me as a fix, I should just throw out my recycling. And I said, well, then What in God's name, are we doing any of this for? If I can just throw it away? Yeah. I mean, like, what? What are you saying to me? You're the recycling lady that you're you're telling me to throw my recycling away, yeah? And she goes, Well, I mean, if you don't have anywhere to put it. I was like, That's it, huh? That's where your common sense got you. That's fascinating. So whether it's them or it's the highest levels of government, or it's a nurse in a in an ER that doesn't understand your diabetes, or a doctor that would take migraine, no one knows what they're talking about. Okay, no,

Carrie 41:37
no, they sure as hell don't they, sure as hell don't. I've definitely learned that. I mean, oh my god, the kids make my kids make fun of me when I have to call customer service for Dexcom or my insurance company, God forbid, oh God, don't get me started there or I mean, and especially when they send me, which I feel like, to another country to speak to a representative who I can hardly understand, and they're telling me things that I know better. I'm like, I can't my kids, like, literally, are like, Oh my god, Mom, you are so mean. And I'm like, I can't help it when they're being stupid. I can't help it.

Scott Benner 42:16
I don't know if I've been clear enough in the past, but this whole thing, you're just lucky that it works. Like, and I'm talking about society, like, just everything, like, it's all just randomly working, because I think it's your luck. It's certainly not that everybody's carrying their fair share. That's for sure. And like, that's for damn sure, but at the same time. Like, I I'm not even upset about I don't, I don't, not understand what happens. Like, listen, it's very simple. Like, you have a an ability to think, I have an ability to think, everyone does. Our abilities are different, right? You can see in like, simple studies, like, even where your IQ falls, it pretty much shows what kind of job you're going to have, like, right? Like, and the smartest people don't hold the jobs that you think of as being the most like important. So, like, the people with the highest IQs are not doctors. No, generally, generally speaking, Now these aren't. They're not people with the lowest IQs. I'm not saying that, but like, you know, like, you start thinking about like, genius level people, 130s 140s 150s and their IQs. Like, super smart, those people don't generally end up being doctors. It's more people in like, more like, 101 10, 120, IQs end up being doctors and and like, and all different kinds of things. My point is, this is, I feel like I'm all over the place, but just stick with me for a second. I got yelled at recently online for cavalierly saying that people don't use their common sense. And this person made this point to me, like, you know, common sense, like, not everybody has it, and even when they have it, it doesn't work to the level of someone else's. So like, while you're just saying, just use your common sense, like the person said to me, like, you have to have some respect for the fact that you might have more than other people do. And I had never thought of it that way. I just thought common sense. Just gonna say, I've never thought of it, yeah, I never thought of it that way, like you have more common sense than the next person, or, you know, maybe your ability to rationalize it while you're using or whatever. But not everyone's got the same processing power. Is what I've learned to think of it. It doesn't make them bad people, doesn't make them good people. It's just in some situations, they're overmatched. And because we're talking about diabetes all the time, tend to be like, Oh, the medical community, blah, blah. It's not just there, right? Like, I don't it's literally just everywhere. Like, everyone is outmatched by something, and frequently you run into people who are outmatched by the thing they're doing. It's so true, not always, but a lot, a lot. And instead of just saying, like, this is a human issue, we say things like, doctors don't understand, or, you know, politicians don't know what they're doing, or like, the like that. That's the stuff. We say it's people. It's just people, right? We're outmatched, okay?

Carrie 45:02
Yeah, no, it's true. No, it's true. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:05
there's a lot going on, and we can't keep it all straight all the time, right? And so very true. Because, I mean, listen, talking to you now for 45 minutes, you're a lovely lady, you've got three children, you know, like you're making your way through the world. You're doing a great job, and yet, right? You don't understand why you had heart attack.

Carrie 45:22
No, no, I never that is, I mean, literally, had never been explained to me like that. And I've seen more than one cardiologist, you know? Yeah,

Lija Greenseid 45:30
no one stopped and told you no, because, and here might be a good reason to tell you, how about be so it doesn't happen again, right? Right? But no, nothing. Just go you have diabetes. Yeah, okay.

Carrie 45:45
And, you know, and I'll never forget, one the morning I was discharged from the hospital, the nurse came in and literally gave me a packet of printed information. I swear to God, it was two inches thick, and said, definitely look through this, and I'm thinking to myself, the hell and Oh. And then she said, You need to lose weight. And I'm like, okay, but they didn't set up any follow up appointments with like

Scott Benner 46:13
Carrie read this fatty Okay, now get out of here. Yeah, I

Carrie 46:19
swear that's how I was discharged. I'm not even kidding you. I can't even Yeah, yeah, it

Scott Benner 46:26
wasn't Oh, I'm so upset. Like, so like, that's fascinating. Like, really. And trust me, she didn't know what she was talking about either. She just did the things she was supposed to do by giving you the packet, and then probably illegally discharged me. Yeah. And then in her head, she probably thought like, Oh, if this lady lost some weight, she might not have already that. Meanwhile, I don't know if that's true or false. She just it's the thing that occurred to her to say, because obviously that was right, that was an off the cuff statement, exactly, yeah, nobody sent her in there and said, Give him this paperwork and tell her she's to lose weight. That's not what happened. Yeah,

Carrie 47:00
no, she Yeah, no. It still makes me laugh to this day. I'm like, you gotta reach me that that really okay,

Unknown Speaker 47:07
cool.

Carrie 47:08
Peace out. Like I'm out. Carrie,

Scott Benner 47:09
are you in the Midwest?

Carrie 47:11
I'm in California.

Lija Greenseid 47:12
You're in California. This is where the heart attack happened. Yes, Southern, Northern, Southern, Southern, Southern, yeah. Okay, nowhere safe, you know,

Carrie 47:24
literally, because, you know, you look at the I mean, we have some really great medical facilities, you know. But no, I'm just, well, I know, I know it makes you question. I mean, do Yeah, do you I'm thinking, maybe not, you know,

Scott Benner 47:39
sure, you have great medical facilities, but it's, again, it's more about the I have such a hard time parsing my way through this, because I think it's such a big abstract idea. But it's not the facility, it's, it's the way that it's done, right? It's the it's, it's the execution. That's the problem.

Unknown Speaker 47:57
Yeah, right.

Carrie 47:58
I feel like insurance dictates so much of how much time you're allotted as a patient, and the resources you're allowed to get your hands on or not get your hands on, or the trials you're allowed to be a part of and well

Scott Benner 48:17
not be a part of. The way it's all set up is the doctors have no time to be with you, but no but at the same time. Then, instead of just saying, oh, you know the system, and then, you know, that's it here, give her a handout, you know, like, like, why not adjust somehow, or teach the nurses the right thing to say, or right or spend listen. You're a doctor of cardiology. Sit down, record yourself and make your recordings available online so people can go, like, access them later, right? Say, look, I'm gonna, I have a recording. It's a link here. It's gonna explain to you what happened to you. It's gonna explain how to avoid it the next time. Exactly you know. And and and after you're done with that, go over to my my guy over here is an endocrinologist. He's going to explain your diabetes to you, because, you know, Carrie, you're not doing a great job. And like I know, based on where you started, 45 years ago, you're killing it. But, you know, modern execution, you're you're pretty far off. And right, you've already had a heart attack at 42 I mean, you're on the fast track to being dead by the time you're 60.

Carrie 49:23
I know. And I yeah, oh, now see now that that when you said, Are you afraid of more things happening? That is definitely one of my fears, is I I probably won't outlive my husband, and I hope I get to see my grandchildren, you know, type thing. So listen,

Scott Benner 49:38
um, keep after that husband. You'll kill him. That's not hard, you know, like just, just keep pressure in the way you're doing it. He'll give up. But no, but see, Carrie, that's not, I don't think that's the case. I think that, I think that you understand your management now, right? And a lot of these things, and thank God, yeah, a lot of these things that are happening to you, I'm not saying they can be. Verse, but you can kind of freeze them in time a little bit, if you're lucky, right, right? You said you have a six seven. Now, how did you how did you accomplish that? Literally,

Carrie 50:09
by just being well for one the CGM. I was not ever wearing a CGM until eight years ago. I didn't start wearing one. So right after my heart attack, even though I had been exposed to it, it was through Medtronic the first time I was exposed, and it was terrible. I just had a really bad experience with alarms going off constantly, whether it was for too high, too low, too I swear to God, it would tell me if my shoelaces were untied. I don't know. It was just there were these constant alarms, and I just said, Screw this thing. Get it off me. So, but so definitely, the CGM changed my life for like, I mean, for better, by far. And that was what Dexcom, and still is. I actually took the initiative to switch from, let's see who was Medtronic, and I went to T slim, and that's still where I am now, okay, I think even making that this sounds really silly, not that I couldn't have accomplished a better a 1c with Medtronic, but just having switching from one pump company to the other, and having a nurse come in and train me on How to use it. I felt like I learned so much from her, too. Okay, so being more user friendly with my T slim and so then that helped me stay on top of my blood sugars more and bring the a 1c down. But I definitely have to attribute most of it to the CGM without a doubt. Isn't

Scott Benner 51:38
it interesting, too, if you've had it for so long, Everyone just assumes you understand it because you're alive, right? Yeah, you know what I mean, like, you don't need us to explain this to you because you've had this forever, I think so, yeah, and let me ask this as a question, because you were alive and, you know, 20 years ago, not having problems. Did you not think I'm doing a great job?

Carrie 51:58
No, I knew I was never I knew I wasn't doing that. So even though you weren't having

Scott Benner 52:03
initial even though you weren't having problems at the time, you still knew it wasn't going the right way.

Carrie 52:09
I Yeah, and I knew I could do much better. Definitely, What stopped you from doing that? I didn't, I think I didn't know where to start type thing. I felt like I was in so deep I didn't know or taking the time to do it. Who has time to do that?

Scott Benner 52:27
More my attitude, I'm busy. This is, this is, in the end, did you think it was never coming for you? I

Carrie 52:33
felt like I had, well, God, I don't have any complications. It must not be that bad. I think that was my attitude, okay?

Scott Benner 52:39
Because, like, if you told me like a murderer was coming for me, I'd be like, I'm gonna make time to get away from this. But right, yeah, I'd be like, I

Carrie 52:49
guess I never thought of it like that, but I but you know what? I don't know why? Like, What a dumbass. Like, why didn't I think of it like that? Seriously, Harry, can

Scott Benner 52:58
I call this episode? What a dumbass. That's hilarious, actually,

Carrie 53:01
yeah, you, you would never, that would never have been me.

Scott Benner 53:07
No, I appreciate your honesty, though. Like, seriously, because, you know, I think what happens is, is that people with diabetes can get caught up in the idea of numbers. I got a good number, I got a bad number. I'll get a better number next time. Yeah, you never couple together the numbers with the future for some reason. Yeah,

Carrie 53:26
no, yeah, no, I definitely did not, did not, and now without a doubt. Um, that's definitely why I strive to get my numbers better, right, um, and I know, like, I know I can do much better with the A, 1c, at a 6.7 and I, and it's I am comfortable where I am, but I definitely, like I said. I mean, my goal right now is to get it to the low sixes. If I ever saw a five, I probably would fall over. But why? Why do you say? Why? Because I feel like, Well, for one, I never even knew that it was safe for it to be that low. But you know now, thanks, right? Well, yeah, I know now, so, but I mean, I think I would fall over, meaning, like, holy crap. I actually did this. Well,

Scott Benner 54:15
I think you could do it. So listen, We've danced around that a little bit here, but did you learn a lot of this from the podcast? Definitely.

Carrie 54:22
Okay, yeah, no. I mean seriously, to realize, and I, you know, I'm actually still, I'm at the point where I'm a little offended when someone tells me that my a 1c, is high.

Unknown Speaker 54:36
I'm like, okay, because you've

Scott Benner 54:37
had an 11. You're like, I got it to a six, seven. Come on, yeah,

Carrie 54:40
that's when I feel like I want to tell them my story and be like, okay, look, you have no idea where I've come from. Like, this is so for me, like, this is a huge accomplishment, yeah,

Scott Benner 54:49
who doesn't care about that? Who your next heart attack doesn't give a shit about how far you've gone? No, I

Carrie 54:56
know, right. I know,

Scott Benner 54:57
right. So, like, why are you stuck in that?

Carrie 54:59
I don't know. I actually, I can't even answer. I don't know why

Scott Benner 55:04
we answered it a half an hour ago. You just have to apply it together. Okay, I'm trying to bring you full circle here. Go

Unknown Speaker 55:09
ahead, right?

Scott Benner 55:10
It's people. It's just how we handle things. You've done so well for yourself, and you have and you've come so far, and you have that you feel like you're done, even though you're not right.

Unknown Speaker 55:22
Yeah, right.

Carrie 55:24
But I do have my days where I'm like, Damn, how rad would that be, and how good? I mean, I already feel so much better than I did, but there's still I want to feel that much better.

Scott Benner 55:36
Yeah, I don't care how you feel anymore. What I care about is extra sugar in your blood, scraping little holes and things, right? That's what I care about, right, right, you know. And so I know. And is a six seven going to give you a heart attack? I'm not a magic person. I don't understand how everything works, right? What I can tell you is that for my kid, I just shoot for lower, lower, less, better, not too low, right? You might do a six seven your whole life, and keep it nice and steady and live to be 90 years old. Like, I don't see that that can't happen, right? Like, I don't see that that can't happen at all. But I don't know. You don't know. And as long as we don't know, and you think you could do a six, then do a six, what stops you from doing a six? Are you not pre bolusing your meals?

Carrie 56:18
Uh, okay, so I just learned about that. I'm like, pre bolus Okay, well, no, I that makes me sound really behind the times and kind of stupid.

Scott Benner 56:28
Just makes you sound it just makes you sound like you're being honest. Don't worry about that. It's

Carrie 56:32
well, I just Well, I feel like I I've known what pre bolusing is for a long time now, but pre bolusing used to be like 10 minutes. And then listening to some of the Pro Series, I just learned that a pre bolus can be all the way up to 30 minutes,

Scott Benner 56:50
depending on the person on your end, your situation, right? Yeah, and

Carrie 56:54
I and your situation, and I am that person, nine times out of 10, not always, but nine times out of 10. I am that person. Also.

Scott Benner 57:02
I like when people say, like, why pre bolus? But I'm like, but your blood sugar was 250 when you bolus, they're like, yeah. I'm like, that's not a pre bolus a meal. That's a correction for the 250 What about the pre bolus for the meal and the food? Yeah,

Carrie 57:13
exactly no and Right, exactly you have to take. I mean, that's a,

Unknown Speaker 57:16
that's a whole nother category.

Scott Benner 57:20
Carrie. I'm interested, after talking to you, what I'm realizing here is, you're in the infancy of your understanding of your management right now,

Carrie 57:28
literally, yeah, I'm still there's so much to learn that's so exciting for you. Yeah, no, I that's and it's fascinating. It's not discouraging for me. It's like, holy crap. There really is a light at the end of all these tunnels. Yeah, there's more than one tunnel. For one, there's more than one tunnel. And for two, I can definitely see there's a light at the end of them. Let me ask you,

Scott Benner 57:49
based on something you said earlier, do you still have weight to lose? Yes. So in your note, you actually asked about like, ozempic, right? You remember that? Like, is that a thing you've considered? I've taken all

Carrie 58:02
of them. Oh, wait a minute, we haven't even touched there yet. Are

Scott Benner 58:06
using one right now? Yes,

Carrie 58:08
which one I just I feel like, this is now. I feel like, Oh, my God, this could be the end of this tunnel for me. And maybe there isn't like I started years ago with truth, not years ago, five, six years ago,

Scott Benner 58:23
right? And that's

Carrie 58:24
where I got, that's where I was able to, like, cut my doses almost in half, and I lost about 24 or 25 pounds. I kind of, it kind of goes between 2425

Lija Greenseid 58:36
pounds, yeah, any chance you have PCOS Carrie, no one has ever said anything. Do you think you might or no, just insulin resistance? Yes, okay, I

Carrie 58:48
do. I truly believe I do. Okay, and I voice that to my endocrinologist, and that's actually how I got started on these drugs. I also take Metformin. Okay? So, I mean, I'm, I mean, I'm obviously on the pump. I take Metformin, and now I'm using Manjaro.

Scott Benner 59:07
How long for the Manjaro?

Carrie 59:11
It's only been,

I think I'm going on shot seven, so not even a complete two months yet. And of course, they start you at the very bottom, yeah,

Scott Benner 59:22
you're on point five right now. Yes,

Unknown Speaker 59:24
okay, you

Scott Benner 59:25
got one more, one more point five. Then you go to, what do you go to after that? Two and a half.

Carrie 59:29
I think it's seven point No, well, no, I'm on five, so it's 2.55 and and then it goes to seven point half. Yeah, seven and a half, yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 59:39
on seven and a half right now, I'm about ready to move to 10 see

Carrie 59:42
and I I've heard that 10 is where you're going to see your improvement,

Scott Benner 59:48
and what the doctor told me, yeah, so I'm super excited.

Carrie 59:52
So you've been okay. So okay, so me too. I'm like, oh my god, I can't get there quick enough. But everyone's like, No, you have to go through the hoops. You have. To go through four injections of each one, you know, I'm like, Ah,

Scott Benner 1:00:03
yeah, I don't, you could get caught. First of all, it's nice to it's, I'm glad you're tolerating it. That's fantastic. So, right, yeah, just stick to the process. So like, where I'm at right now, and I don't, it's not for diabetes, but obviously it impacts my insulin use, which is helping me lose weight. I've I started at 236 Uh huh, I'm 189 today, okay, but I've been as low as 183 Okay, and so I think in the last month and a month, month, yes, in the last month. So like, I started taking this over the counter supplement to help with my bowel movements. Be better. And okay, they are helping, but I'm gaining weight, so I'm not sure how to, like, figure this all out. And I actually went to the doctor on Saturday, and she's like, you've been putting on a couple of pounds. She goes, yeah. She goes, Don't worry, when we move you to the 10, then you're really gonna say it. I'm like, I've already, like, so I lost, at one point I was up to 50 pounds, but now I'm like, 44 pounds I've lost, right? And she's like, Wait till you see when you get to the 10. And I was like, All right, lady, I'm in like, let's go right. I think I have right now where I sit at 189 I don't know if I don't, maybe have 20 more pounds to lose about there, and then there's not an ounce of fat on my body after that, right? What you care about is that I just booked a recording with a doctor from Austin, Texas, Dr Tom Blevins. He's going to come on and talk about glps, okay, he's a proponent. He's an endocrinologist. He's going to come on and talk about functionally, how they work, and that kind of stuff. And I've had a number of people on this year already, like, from like, little kids, like 13 year old using we go V whose insulin needs, oh, my god. Her insulin needs went from 70 units a day to seven. Wow. She's probably like, still like, she's probably like, honeymooning, probably like a long honeymoon, but had so much insulin resistance, they think from PCOS maybe that, you know, it turned what looked like full blown type one back into like, Oh, this is again. It's infancy still. Wow. You're hearing a lot of people using glps, and their insulin needs going down. So when you started it, did you see a decrease in your insulin when you started the Manjaro? Yeah,

Carrie 1:02:23
that was actually the first thing that started or not, not with Manjaro, not yet when I started with the trulicity. That's what happened to me first. So

Scott Benner 1:02:31
you haven't seen a need in a reduction yet with the it's, by the way, it's bucharo Manjaro. I don't know, why don't they just call it like I ain't fat anymore number one and so, so you haven't seen a dip in the last seven weeks.

Carrie 1:02:44
No, I made a couple tweak, actually, if anything, I've just recently noticed, like the foot on the floor syndrome in the morning when I get up and I'm so pissed off about that, because my morning blood sugars are always for me, are always so good. And now I I'm like, oh my god, I haven't even had a sip of coffee yet, and this is rising. Like, what the heck is going on? Okay? So I've noticed that, so I've had to increase, but then in the late afternoon, I've had to decrease, because I have this bizarre thing that while I'm cooking dinner and doing my evening CHORES, my blood sugar wants to just start dropping like crazy. And I'm like, oh, no, you don't, because I don't want to treat a low blood sugar. I'm just getting ready to eat dinner. Why? Why? Why? You know, anyhow, so I have decreased there, but no, I have not decreased insulin yet due to the Manjaro Oh, I'm

Scott Benner 1:03:36
super interested to see what happens then, like so me too. Yeah, yeah, as to, because I

Carrie 1:03:42
feel like I plateaued. Plateaued with, not with that, definitely with the weight loss. But my first concern and reason for going on all this was the insulin resistance. Yeah, no, I

Scott Benner 1:03:51
hear you for sure. Have you lost weight in seven weeks? No, not yet. Okay, I see, oh, this is interesting. How much do you think you have to lose? Would you share?

Carrie 1:04:00
I would be stoked if I could. I mean, if I could do another 20 i and I'm at 189 too. By the way, we

Scott Benner 1:04:08
can fight Carrie. We're in the same age, age and weight class.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:12
Oh,

Carrie 1:04:15
don't threaten me with a good time. I love that.

Scott Benner 1:04:18
So funny. So how tall? How can I ask how tall you are? Yeah, I'm five, five. Okay, so you see, isn't it funny how we talk about weight? Because I did this too. I did the like, Oh, I was 236 I was like, I could probably lose 20 pounds. I lost 20 pounds. I was like, drop in the bucket. I lost 30 pounds. I was like, Uh oh, I need to lose way more weight than I thought. And like, you know, watching it go down and down, like, you'll be surprised when it starts moving for you, you'll be surprised my experience, at least as the number falls, you think, Oh, I had a very inconsistent view of myself, inconsistent, inconsistent with reality view of my Yeah. I

Carrie 1:04:56
mean, I think I could definitely lose 40 pounds and not look. Too skinny or too like or not look unwell, you know? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:05:04
no, I hear you, yeah. Well, I wish you a ton of luck with that. That's that's good news that you were, how did you get your doctor to cover it? Or your insurance? Are

you paying cash for it?

Carrie 1:05:12
No, no, no, my insurance has always covered it from day one. And I feel I keep, I literally, I, swear to you, I'm waiting for the day where they're like,

Scott Benner 1:05:22
What diagnosis that got you? Bajaro, I

Carrie 1:05:27
don't know exactly how he's writing the or, you know, writing for it. So the insurance covers. I could have sworn at one point he told me he goes, Well, you know, you can be type two as well. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:05:42
this is the new, this is the new move from some doctors. They're, they're diagnosing you as type one and type two at the same time. Yeah, yeah. There's no way they're not going to catch on to that at some point. Right?

Carrie 1:05:52
That's why. That's why I'm like, Okay, this can't this has got to be too good to be true. Why can't

Scott Benner 1:05:56
he just give you a zeppbound for weight loss? It's the same drug you have. I mean, no offense, your BMI supports it. Like, just do that. Yeah, no, I

Carrie 1:06:07
don't know. I mean, as

Scott Benner 1:06:08
long as it's working, just shut your mouth and do it. But like, if, if they push back, just have the movie, does that bound right?

Carrie 1:06:16
Yeah, yeah, you know what I in fact, and I've never even thought of that. But that's a great and it's so I love my Endo. I swear, anything I suggest, he is not opposed to I mean, as long as it's within reason, I've definitely finally found my my my person is, I mean, as far as for one, he will totally listen to me and let me speak my mind and values my opinion, and actually will ask, okay, are you okay with this? What's your opinion? What do you think? You know, yeah, where, I mean, he's not just because he wears the white coat, he's in charge. And I

Scott Benner 1:06:49
freaking love that. Found somebody alike. That's very important. Yeah, it's

Carrie 1:06:53
a big, big deal, for sure. So anyhow, so he, he would definitely be open to for things for me to try and yeah, I mean, listen,

Scott Benner 1:07:02
if your insurance is willing to cover it, that's fine. My insurance only covers it for weight loss if you don't have type two diabetes. So I so I'm on zepbound, which is manjano. It's just, it's the same drug, it's just labeled differently, right, right? I hope these insurance companies come around the next year or so because, you know, I know they're still, like, they're opening up new manufacturing plants, like all these companies, but this stuff is really valuable for a lot of people.

Carrie 1:07:29
Well, it is. And, you know, for a long time it was frustrating for me when I the reason why I've jumped around to different ones is because I couldn't get them anymore. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:07:40
no, I you were doing the dance. You were like, I'll try. We go be I'll go to ozempic. Yeah, since you started an injectable, a once weekly injectable, how much weight have you lost? 25 pounds. Okay, that's pretty great. Yeah, yep, no.

Carrie 1:08:00
I mean, I still don't regret, and it's definitely it's a lifetime drug, but you see, for me, I feel like I've also learned that there are very good reasons to keep taking it, not just for the diabetes, but for my heart

Scott Benner 1:08:13
as well. Well, yeah, how about like, the studies are showing people having far fewer heart issues on it too,

Carrie 1:08:19
exactly because of, like, the it's the better for the blood pressure, better for the cholesterol. So, yes, so it's definitely a lifetime drug for me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:08:28
Carrie, yes, you had high a one C's, but you're also overweight. Like, these are all like factors for

Carrie 1:08:33
heart attack, and I had high cholesterol and high blood pressure. Has that cleared?

Scott Benner 1:08:38
Yes, my doctor did my vitals on Saturday, and she whispered, whispered like or mumbled under her breath like a kid twice while she was taking my vitals. What really, yeah, because my blood pressure was so good, and my and my um, my BP, and my pulse and my all my everything, she measured, like, manually. She's like, like, a kid, you look like a kid here with these numbers. She kept saying it, that's awesome. I was like, goddamn right lady. I was like, This is it? Like, I'm gonna live forever. I said that she left, right? But I don't think I'm actually gonna live forever. But I actually think I'm gonna live longer than I would've without the GOP, that's for sure. I like when people say it's a lifelong job, I'm like, Yeah, I don't care. So, right?

Carrie 1:09:21
Yeah, no, yeah, that's what, when people are like, but you, you have, you're gonna have to take that forever Goddamn, right? I'm taking it forever.

Scott Benner 1:09:28
Carry Simple Minds. You understand, see, what have I told you that? Listen, I'm not making fun anybody. Like, listen, I seriously, you're walking around with a 95 IQ. I don't judge you. I don't judge anybody. It's all about processing speed. It's like, it's like, it's like, you buy a computer with eight megs of RAM, it can do less work than a computer with 16 megs of RAM. Like, it's right, it doesn't make one a bad computer and a good computer. I'm like, genuinely not coming down on people. I I think what can happen sometimes is we end up putting people in. I think we end up putting eight Meg computers and 16 Meg jobs sometimes, and then we get mad at it for running slow. And that, literally, I think, is the problem. Like I you know, right? I realize there's only so many people to do so many jobs, but I mean, back to my original like example from this one. I don't know how you don't have to be that smart not to take a heart failure patient off their heart failure meds like

Unknown Speaker 1:10:25
that. Just, yeah,

Carrie 1:10:27
I mean, it just that just doesn't make sense. It

Unknown Speaker 1:10:31
has to be, right?

Scott Benner 1:10:34
I don't know. Kara, I can't, I can't because sometimes I just get to the point where I'm like, Ah,

Carrie 1:10:40
yeah, no, yeah, where you like you literally do not know what like you're okay, yeah, just took the words. There are no thoughts right now.

Scott Benner 1:10:47
You stand back and go. Every one of you mothers is trying to kill me. I see what's happening. Yeah? Seriously, yeah. That's what the when people say, advocate for yourself. That's what they should tell you. They should tell you, this is goddamn Mad Max. All right,

Carrie 1:11:04
seriously. Oh, it's not, yeah, no, I

Scott Benner 1:11:06
get out there and fight or someone's gonna drive you over their car, their teeth on the front of it. So yeah, people

Carrie 1:11:13
who say there's no, okay, there's no need to get so upset,

Scott Benner 1:11:17
you're all trying to kill me. That's all, yeah, no, yeah, yeah. From, by the way, from the person who goes, Oh, Carrie, that's a lifelong drug. Is it? Asshole, thanks,

Carrie 1:11:30
reality. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:11:31
I appreciate it. You and your deep thoughts. Good job. All right, that's enough of me, Carrie, I'm gonna get myself in trouble. We're done. All right, I appreciate you doing this with me having this conversation. Thank you very much.

Carrie 1:11:44
No problem. It's actually I've actually learned from just talking with you like this. You must meet my dad.

Scott Benner 1:11:50
Oh, please. I'll tell him how wrong he is. What do you think of

Carrie 1:11:54
that? Oh, I would love to hear someone. I

Unknown Speaker 1:11:57
would love it. I

Scott Benner 1:11:58
just want to be clear at the end, there's a mass amount of things I don't understand at all. I just want to be but, but the things I don't understand I know to go find somebody else who does right? That's my that's my thing. Like I you know, you got to know what you don't know. Yes, very important. All right, let me say goodbye. Thank you very much for doing this. I appreciate it. Hold on for one second. Okay, okay. I want to thank the Eversense CGM for sponsoring this episode of The juicebox podcast, and invite you to go to Eversense cgm.com/juicebox to learn more about this terrific device, you can head over now and just absorb everything that the website has to offer. And that way you'll know if Eversense feels right for you. Eversense, cgm.com/juicebox, this episode was sponsored by touched by type one. I want you to go find them on Facebook, Instagram, and give them a follow, and then head to touched by type one.org where you're going to learn all about their programs and resources for people with type one diabetes, a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, gevok glucagon. Find out more about gvokopen at gvoke glucagon.com, forward slash juicebox. You spell that, G, V, O, k, e, g, l, U, C, A, G, O n.com, forward slash juice box. Are you starting to see patterns, but you can't quite make sense of them. You're like, Oh, if I bolus here, this happens, but I don't know what to do. Should I put in a little less? A little more? If you're starting to have those thoughts, you're starting to think this isn't going the way the doctor said it would. I think I see something here, but I can't be sure. Once you're having those thoughts, you're ready for the diabetes Pro Tip series from the juicebox podcast. It begins at Episode 1000 you can also find it at juicebox podcast.com up in the menu, and you can find a list in the private Facebook group, just check right under the featured tab at the top, it'll show you lists of a ton of stuff, including the Pro Tip series, which runs from episode 1000 to 1025 thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The juicebox podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongwayrecording.com, you.