Scott Benner 10/12/21 Scott Benner 10/12/21

#558 After Dark: Life Struggles

Madi is a young type 1, a mother and more.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Friends, this is Episode 558 of the Juicebox Podcast.

I don't want to give too much away but we're going to be talking to Madi today. Madi is in her mid to early 20s she has type one diabetes. She's a mother, and there's a lot of things going on in her life. I didn't expect this episode to become an afterdark but it is, and I think I'm gonna call it afterdark life struggles. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. or becoming bold with insulin.

I guess now we're recording so don't curse or do anything weird. And

Madi 1:05
I'm from LA that's that's hard.

Scott Benner 1:09
Which is hard not being weird or not cursing.

Madi 1:12
Oh, yes is both I mean I can manage

Scott Benner 1:20
Don't forget to take that T one D exchange survey at T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod dash you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. Go find out right now at Omni pod comm forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor you can get started today. or learn more@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox trust me you want a Dexcom

Madi 2:01
My name is Madi. I live in Utah. I was born and raised in Los Angeles. I just turned 24 on Friday. Wow.

Scott Benner 2:15
Happy birthday. Thank you. So tell me I feel bad I was just downstairs getting a drink and my wife said what are you doing? I said I'm recording with a girl named Maddie and I can't remember why she's coming on I can't find any of my notes on it. So I feel bad about that. But let's just start with how this happened. Why are you here?

Madi 2:39
Okay, so I had found your podcast last year Oh gosh, it was probably in like June or July and I just I became obsessed I was like oh my gosh like warehouse suspending I actually like haven't really been a huge podcast person until then. I was like just getting into it. And I was like, this is like, this is amazing. Like this is something that like I've needed. My boyfriend at the time was like you're always listening to this.

Scott Benner 3:11
Wait your boyfriend at the time. loves that your boyfriend at the time. Did I break you up?

Madi 3:17
No, you know, you didn't break.

Scott Benner 3:24
broken up because he was a jerk.

Madi 3:26
No. So I mean he had a son back in Ohio. No, he were trying to work things out. So he was able to have his son out here half the time and that wasn't going as planned. So he went back to be with the son. We decided you know was obviously for the best.

Scott Benner 3:47
Well, that's sad. I'm sorry.

Madi 3:51
I'm sorry. Life happens. That's Yeah, so I found your podcast and I had just been diagnosed with a kind of a semi rare medical condition called epi or exocrine. Pancreatic insufficiency. I've also been type one diabetic for the end of this year will be 17 years. All right,

Scott Benner 4:16
hold on. Maddie. let's not let's not blow through that first thing again. What was the the new diagnosis

Madi 4:23
exocrine pancreatic insufficiency.

Scott Benner 4:30
You should see me typing.

Madi 4:34
It's not It wasn't me spelling out. No,

Scott Benner 4:36
no. I got it. But there was a pause. The pause you heard was me going. Exit crime. Pancreatic insufficiency epi is a condition characterized by deficiency of the exocrine pancreatic enzymes resulting in the inability to digest food properly or mal digestion. That's right. So but that's not that's interesting. That's, that's

Madi 5:05
no, I've got a I've got like, backstory to how I got that

Scott Benner 5:09
you Okay, all right, hold on let's start slow. You were diagnosed you said like 17 years ago. Yeah. How old were you then?

Madi 5:19
So is seven

Scott Benner 5:20
years old. Any memories from that that are worthless.

Madi 5:24
Yeah, all I remember is. So I mean, at that time, I was in soccer. So I was like losing a lot of weight, I was kind of a bigger kid, I was losing a lot of weight, I was drinking a lot of water. My stepfather, like noticed that he actually used to be kind of in the medical field, you know, using EMT stuff like that. And like if he knew love things, but like, you notice like something was going on. He was like, not like, She's fine. So just like losing your like more way, you know, like wetting the bed, constantly thirsty, eating like crazy. But I was just dropping all this weight. And then. So my stepfather, he raised me and my sister and my brother. Our mother died when we were younger. So it was just him until he's working. And like getting really sick at this point. And that had been going on for a couple weeks. And my sister was you know, like trying to take care of me she has a funny thing is is that she actually like laid me on the living room floor. Put a white sheet over Wi Fi calls are usually

Scott Benner 6:41
your voice just went away. And I don't know why are you farther away from where the mic?

Madi 6:46
I'm actually wearing a headset.

Scott Benner 6:49
Oh, you're wearing a headset? Can you hear me through it?

Madi 6:52
No. You're coming through my speaker on the PC. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 6:56
don't know what happened there. I'm sorry. I think because we have like a weird setup. It's possible that when I'm talking and it's coming out of your speakers that your microphones hearing it like you're talking and then we think there's some sound canceling going on so I'm gonna try really hard not to like, haha, you or ask you questions in the middle. I think that might be it. But I did have a question. Like, let me let me ask a couple and then you can get back into the story. So your I'm sorry, your mom passed away when you were younger? How long were your mom and your stepfather together before she passed? You're completely gone. Your voice is completely gone. Shoot. Maddie, I can't hear you at all. Maddie, you know, yeah, now you're back. I don't know what happened there. Anything you said before? Hello? I didn't hear. Shoot, shoot, shoot. Can we try taking the Alright, here's an idea. Do you have an iPhone?

Madi 7:58
I do that.

Scott Benner 7:59
Okay. Do Can we try it without the headset for a minute and see if the mic in the computer? Because the mic sounds great. And then all of a sudden you're just gone for stretches. Okay, yeah, let's try that. I'm gonna unplug it right now. Sorry. Okay, can you hear me? Yeah, it's really unplugged. Yeah. Let's do this. Okay. I think my my voice might rattle a little bit, but I'll just, if we just talk in, we take turns it'll be okay. And you just be cognizant while you're talking a little bit that, that I'm going to try not to interrupt you, but I might have questions. So I'm going to start again and just ask you again. Your seven year diagnosed You said your mom passed early. I was wondering how long your stepfather and mother were together before she passed

Madi 8:50
was about seven years old. My mother actually passed away the same year that I was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 8:56
Oh No kidding. Was it unexpected?

Madi 9:00
No, it was kind of sorta so my mother I'm not sure which hepatitis she had. But she had one of the forms and he got a transplant liver transplant but at that time, they only lasted four years. So after the four years they gave her another transplant actually but her body had rejected it so she unfortunately passed away

Scott Benner 9:31
sorry and I'm not wrong and I that that's something that's treatable now is Yeah, it is actually is that I'm sorry, I know this isn't why you're on the podcast, but does that make any sense? Does that make you mad? That they figured out how to fix a problem your mom had after it was too late for her

Madi 9:49
it's definitely you know like something I do think about you know, just because you know like now there are so many like medical advancements it's like all we could have had that back then you know, like There's so much greater, oh, my life would be completely different. You know,

Scott Benner 10:05
how how do you think? What do you think some of the main ways your life is different? And I'm, I'm stunned that you're that all this happened and your stepfather took care of you and your two sisters. Is that right?

Madi 10:19
As my older sister and a younger brother younger

Scott Benner 10:22
brother, that's lovely. But I want to pick through it a little more. So I'm sorry. So your your stepfather is recently lost his wife, your mom? And then you're diagnosed? Do you feel like at that time looking back? Did Did you did you and your sister your brother feel like his kids? To Him? Do you think what do you think this whole thing brought guys together?

Madi 10:49
So. So our family tree is kind of crazy. So my stepfather? No, my younger brother. That's his biological son. And then me and my older sister. No, we're not, you know, his blood. So he did have to, like adopt us. You know, after my mom passed away by Mike, he basically raised us our money. He did raise us, you know, so we know we did have that connection. Um, unfortunately, you know, he, he was kind of abusive. So that's the reason I actually moved to Utah when I was 18. I moved in with my biological father. And things have been pretty good. Since then. I don't really talk to my stepfather as much anymore. We might actually blocked him on stuff.

Scott Benner 11:48
I'm sorry. I just I hear stories that I just don't expect to hear.

Madi 11:53
I know. Yeah, my life's been pretty crazy. I was gonna say,

Scott Benner 11:57
you need a break. So what was that like growing up then with diabetes with a stepfather? who wasn't the greatest? Oh, it was

Madi 12:08
awful. I was constantly in the hospital. And I you know, there was a got to a point where he wouldn't even see me in the hospital. He just dropped me off at the ER, I'd be admitted. And I'd call him when I was ready to be picked up.

Scott Benner 12:28
Wow. Oh, that's terrible. Okay. Um, oh, okay. Tell me how you ended up in the hospital. And that time, a lot of DK like, I mean, I'm assuming it was hard as a seven year old to take care of your blood sugar. Were you on your own? Was he trying to help you with it at all? Um, after I was first diagnosed, your any of those times through there?

Madi 12:53
Um, oh, I guess like my diagnosis, we finish that, but um, and my sister ended up calling him was like, hey, like, mad, he's really sick. Like, something's wrong. He, like, rushed into the hospital, you know, it's like blue in the face. And they like check my blood sugar. And I was like, 700 something. And they're like, yeah, like, She's like, she has type one diabetes? No, it is like him, you know, having, you know, some medical knowledge feels like, you know, was like, why'd Why didn't I see this? You know, like, I know, all the signs like this. So I mean, after that, like, my diabetes was watched pretty well, like after my diagnosis, like my initial diagnosis. Because also at that time, since my mother had passed away, and me and my sister weren't, are obviously like our father's daughter. We were going through a custody battle. So my biological father and like his family, and, you know, obviously, my family is my stepfather. You know, like, we're all like, you know, pitching in, you know, taking care of me, especially with you know, like the schedule of, you know, like sharing me during that time or so, I mean, it was very well watched in the beginning, and then they're granted, you know, custody to my stepfather. So after all of that was finalized, my biological father and his family moved out to Utah. And

Scott Benner 14:34
that's so he he fought to keep you but then didn't treat you particularly well once he had you.

Madi 14:41
Well, I mean, like, it was my mother's you know, dying wish, you know, for the three of us to stay together. is you know, obviously if my biological father would have wanted me would have been split up. So they thought it was in their best interest to keep us with our stepfather. Obviously they didn't know that he was going to turn out the way he did. Yeah, unfortunately.

Scott Benner 15:06
I'm sorry to hear all that. That's literally terrible. And I don't know another thing to say, other than That's terrible. And I'm really sorry, but you're young. And it sounds like you're in a different position. Now. Did you have a pump all that time when you were younger? We're using MD Oh,

Madi 15:22
so the weird thing is so yeah, I was just doing the MD, our MBA, multiple daily injections. He was actually like, he instilled a fear in me about the pump. Like he was like, someone's gonna like hack into it, or like, the tubing is gonna get kinked and you're gonna go to DK like, instantly and like you're gonna die. Unless that so I always stayed away from the pump.

Scott Benner 15:52
I wonder if it was just too expensive and didn't want you to have it?

Madi 15:55
Well, it was honestly like, it wasn't even that like we could, like I don't want to say but like, we could afford it like he, he made we had really good insurance. But um,

Scott Benner 16:06
it was just scared of it.

Madi 16:08
Yeah, and it's like, um, now that like, you know, like I'm older and you know, like hearing stories from my family and stuff like that. They're like, yeah, like, he kind of wanted to like stay away from technology. It was kind of like weird about it sometimes with certain things and I was like, What?

Scott Benner 16:26
Oh, maybe not just around diabetes. Maybe he's just the cook. Is that what you're saying?

Madi 16:31
Yeah, yeah, he kind of lives Yeah, he's a little psycho easy way to say it.

Scott Benner 16:43
Oh my god, hold on one second.

My mom is trying to tell me something and I'm like totally Mila my friend. Leave me alone. I have a podcast mom. Imagine I'm 49 so stupid. So okay, so you're out in Utah now? And I'm being serious like, like I asked you But first of all, I've enjoyed everything you've said so far, but it didn't answer why you were on the podcast. I know you love that you found that you loved it but what made you reach out to be on it?

Madi 17:27
Oh yeah, that's right. I say get sidetracked and I already took my Adderall this morning. What's wrong with me?

Scott Benner 17:36
I have to tell you the whole podcast is one sidetracked So yeah, that's fine.

Madi 17:42
Um, yes, I found your podcast you know, fell in love with it. And I had noticed that you didn't have an episode on the epi and so I had actually messaged you on Instagram I was like hey Lena, like introduce myself. I was like, I noticed you know like you don't have an episode on there. So I was like, I was recently diagnosed with it like I'd love to talk about it with you. And you're like well, he's like you're like I'm pretty booked out like till April. Um, he was like it was probably it'll probably be best to who talked about it after you've lived with it for some time.

Scott Benner 18:16
Right? And so how long have you How long have you had it now?

Madi 18:26
May June. So it's been over half a year

Scott Benner 18:32
yeah, you get up on like nine months now?

Madi 18:34
Yeah, nine months?

Scott Benner 18:36
Well, let's before we get to it describe how you're just you're type one care was prior to that where you're a one sees how are you managing? How are things going.

Madi 18:46
So before I was actually diagnosed with epi, it was I had my management. It was not good. Um, so like, my last year, it was probably like, before I was diagnosed with the EPA, I was like, in the fourteens is pretty bad. And then my, he's not a he's a nurse practitioner. he's a he's a PA in my PA, physician's assistant on he actually gave me freestyle Liberty sensor. And at the time, I was like, also, like, diagnosed like with the epi. And he's like, yo, like, try this. I'll see you in like a month and see how that's going like with you as well. And I was like, oh, like okay, and after I got the sensor like, my life, or my diabetes management did a complete 180 on my last day when she was eight, so from 14 to eight And I hadn't been in the single digits for my England see since my pregnancy I congratulate he's almost four

Scott Benner 20:10
oh congratulations That's amazing. How did you get to 14? Listen I'm not judging you but I want to have the conversation so 1414 seems like you're trying to not do well and like what has to happen for an agency to be in the 14 like what do you have to not do?

Madi 20:29
Um, obviously I wasn't taking insulin or like I wouldn't on top of my diabetes ny also you know sometimes struggles and you know, eating disorders that I believe Yeah, I actually went to rehab for diabetes diabetes aimia and you 1016 Yeah, yeah, I was like you know, like I I want to be thin I want to be attractive I want to sing You know, like I would pretty so I would omit my insulin you know, I let my blood sugar and high and once I'd feel that you know, like I was like getting into like a bad deal here like I was like getting really sick almost to the point of no return. You know, like I take a whole bunch insulin and you know, like drink electrolytes No, chill out. To try to fix myself enough to a point where I couldn't function. And you know, continue to do that.

Scott Benner 21:33
I didn't realize that you I didn't realize that you had Diab Lamia, or that you had been in treatment for it. And I just the number just made me feel like something had to be there. I didn't realize that was going to be it. So are you did the treatment for the dib Lamia help you or are you still struggling with it? How does that go?

Madi 21:55
It actually definitely did help um, unfortunately not at that time I was I was a couple years younger and kind of stupid. So I actually left against medical advice from the rehab facility um after about like a month or a month and a half or so I was like I'm done you know being stuck in here like I don't want to get out um, but after I like less they're a notice that it actually did help me because my parents ended up giving me an ultimatum when I got home that night they're like either you will follow our rules you know take out all the piercings out of your face you know stop coloring your hair this and that you know have a curfew on or you know, if you're not gonna follow our rules you're gonna have to move out or like find another place to stay. I was like I'm gonna find another place to stay. I actually moved in with my friend that night and being on my own actually helped me a lot it would make me realize you know, like my family's not going to be here you know at the house if something happens to me and take me to the hospital like it's going to be just me like I'm going to be dead you know if I don't if I don't step up a little bit. Um, so I feel like the rehab and moving out after actually did help me be more stable. Um, but then after that, after you know, I had my son and stuff like that. And unfortunately, me and my, my son's father aren't together anymore after No, we had split. Guys thought back into the thought of you know, like, I want to be I want to be pretty for others like I want I want to be attractive to other people. So I did slip back in to that where I wasn't taking care of myself and running my blood sugar, you know, on the higher ends, like lose weight.

Scott Benner 23:59
Is that where you are now? Or are you now now you're doing better?

Madi 24:04
Now I'm doing better like I said, my last day once you ate me to get the recheck. I've been doing a lot better. Like I'm in love. I'm in love with the freestyle dancer. Yeah, it's been a huge, huge help. To me.

Scott Benner 24:19
So Maddie, I am not a professional, anything. I'm seriously like, keep that in mind as we're talking. But you've it's so interesting that you were like, I want to come on the podcast because I have epi and nobody's talked about it yet. Meanwhile, there are like seven other things that are incredibly interesting about you.

Unknown Speaker 24:41
I'm a very interesting person.

Scott Benner 24:44
Yes, you are 100%. But my first question is if I searched your name, your full name, which we're not saying here on Facebook, and I come up with a picture of somebody on a horse is that you

Madi 24:56
know, no, okay. All right. Definitely not definitely no Wouldn't be my full name, it would just be my Maddy. And then my last name.

Scott Benner 25:04
Gotcha. All right. So I'm just trying to get a feeling for who I was talking to. But so So a couple of things, the wanting to look good for other people thing. That's, that that seems to be the driving force behind a number of your issues. Oh yeah, you feel that? And And is there any way like to go to counseling for something like that to get past that because now I have found you when you are adorable, and I don't know why you feel like it's hard to it's hard to look at you, as an outsider in this picture and think that this person feels that way, the way you described. And I can't imagine that it's not to do you know, in no small part to how you grew up. Like, I can't imagine that how you grew up must have been incredibly difficult. And has I would imagine a lot of impacts that you might not even understand or that I understand. It does sound like your father, your birth father, and I guess his wife. It sounds like when they had enough of you. And they and you had enough of them. And you kind of split up then you started seeing the more the realities of your life. I guess that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. And and then the leap Ray did what for you, it showed you trends and where your blood sugars were? Did it help you do better with the insulin? Or did it put a picture to what was going on in your body? And it scare you?

Madi 26:42
Oh, it did a lot. I mean, obviously, you know, like, I saw the trends, and I started kind of becoming like, hyper focused on it. I was like, oh, like, you know, if I change how much time I take, now we're like, you know, just like Pre-Bolus thing, and then, you know, watching what I'm eating and then like watching the spike and know, like everything like that. And it was just like, I became like an obsession.

Scott Benner 27:15
So you focus yourself on your healthy situation, instead of focusing on these, I mean, I really, I really don't know anything about anything, but I and I've never had that feeling in myself. Like, I don't look right for people. And I can't imagine how, how impactful that must be on you when that's the overwhelming feeling in your head. But do you like hyper focus on things and you just hyper focused on your blood sugar this time.

Madi 27:44
And I mean, there's, there's a lot of focus, I mean, like, obviously, you know, there's my blood sugar. Um, and like, it's, you know, obviously, like, doing much, much better now. But it's like, now that I'm not using my, or using my diabetes, specifically, to lose weight. I've been finding other ways, unfortunately. So it's like, I know that my diabetes is an order. But now that I've discovered I have this epi, I have found a new way.

Scott Benner 28:24
So this is gonna sound disconnected from the disorder of diabetes aimia. And I want everybody listening to remember that I don't, I've never had it, and I have no, like, perspective on it. But I can see your pictures. And I don't there, you don't have weight to lose. Is that because you're manipulating it? Or is or do you just feel like you do? And it doesn't? Like, would it not matter how small you got? You would feel like you needed to lose weight.

Madi 28:57
I'm not sure because I mean, there was like a point where I was like, Oh, I think I might be thin enough. And it's very hard for me because yeah, I mean, obviously if you will get my picture you know, I'm not like a bigger person. Um, and you know, I A lot of people are like, oh, like, you're small, you're tiny, you know, like I fit in size, small clothing. You know, I wear size small medium. Um, we're, I think it's just like, physically, I know I look okay, but it's the number on the scale. Because I'm actually a very dense person. So usually I'm like, I'm pretty small. You know, I'm five, six. Like I said, we're so small, but I'm like, I'm like 150 pounds and people were like, there's no way like you weigh that much. I'm like, Yeah, like I'm just I'm super dense. And it's like, I was just seeing that number eight, like, I'm like, I like I want to be smaller. And then it's also you know, I've seen like how I see myself, I feel like people will, you know, accept you more love me more, you know, treat me better, if I'm prettier if I'm more attractive, and that does come, that does obviously, like stem from my childhood. And like the abuse and neglect where, you know, it wasn't being taken care of. And there actually was a point, you know, like I said, I was a bigger kid a little bit. Um, my stepfather, you know, would comment on that, and would force me to work out and he had like, told me like before work, sometimes he's like, you're too fat to go to work. I'm not taking you.

Scott Benner 30:42
I'm sorry.

Madi 30:43
That like, that still affects me to this day.

Scott Benner 30:47
So I mean, I think if there was a therapist here, they would tell you that you should go to therapy and talk about that. Oh, yeah. For sure, that's something you

Madi 30:58
could do. Um, it is, it definitely is. The I like to put on my big girl pants and forget that joke. I was awful. Um, I'm like, oh, like I can I can take care of this.

Scott Benner 31:17
Yeah, I would say Maddie that somebody put you in such a deep hole to start your life that I don't see how you could possibly take care of this by yourself. Like, I think you really need somebody to, to help you with it. Because there's, you have a number of different things going on. Right? So you're somebody's Mom, you're a young person who grew up in an abusive way. Obviously, I think the dyeable emia is because you had the ability to manipulate insulin, but had you not had type one diabetes, I don't know that you wouldn't have ended up with an eating disorder just all the same. Based on how you're telling me he spoke to you, and I mean, that's, you're too fat to go to work is is a level of horrible that I did not expect. You know what I mean? And I think it's possible that when you grow up like that, that starts feeling like, like, that's how people talk to each other. Except I have to tell you, like nobody else. Nobody talks to people like that. Yeah. And if you and if you had been spoken, like, Listen, I don't I don't mean to like, like, rip down to the end of your soul. But you're okay, your mom died when you were seven. That's if just that would have happened. I think I would tell you, you should go to therapy at me, and then you get type one diabetes, if just that happened, I think I might tell you to go to therapy. And you grew up with an abusive stepdad, if just that happened, and somebody was shaming you for your body. And it probably it's not even it's not even based in reality, which can be which I imagine could be even more confusing like somebody's calling you you know, it's like somebody it's like if somebody was calling you blonde and you were a brunette, like you'd be like, I'm not blonde. And and but they kept saying it. Like I don't know how confusing that would be like you're seriously. And then you got another issue another medical issue your five things into reasons why I think you should go talk to a therapist,

Madi 33:20
guys and it gets worse. It gets worse.

Scott Benner 33:25
It gets worse I'm gonna need to take a deep breath so hold on what's actually I'm gonna take a drink Hold on one second.

One Don't we all take a second to talk about Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor and why you may want to run right to Dexcom comm forward slash juice box and find out how to get started. I'm just going to tell you what's happening today around here. Arden is sick. She has what I am affectionately calling kennel cough after going back to high school with a bunch of kids who have not seen each other for 18 months. They've all kind of got this cough. They're not particularly sick, maybe a little congested. It's hanging on them. It's not COVID it's just this. I don't know is this cough right? It's been impacting her blood sugar's pretty significantly Arden's needed much more basil, more aggressive boluses her insulin to carb ratio has changed a lot is happening during this illness. So I had her good and stable overnight. She got up went to school this morning, and out of nowhere at about 9am her blood sugar just went from super stable and like 116 to rocketing straight up. We were able, within 45 minutes to stop an arrow straight up that's Dexcom telling you Oh my God, your blood sugar is rising very quickly. She went from 116 to 170 to 183. We were able to cut it off in the 190s and she's 139. Now, two hours later. Now, just imagine If I didn't have the Dexcom g sex, just imagine if it wasn't able to share from Arden to me. No one would have ever known that we would have known for three hours until we tested for a meal that Arden's blood sugar had jumped up like that. But because of the Dexcom, we knew right away, we were able to make an informed decision about how to manage insulin. And we were able to stop that spike without causing a low later in the middle of an illness that is significantly impacting her blood sugar. Don't feel like I should have to say anything else. Go to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox Get started today, you will not be disappointed. You know when we got that information from Dexcom art and made those adjustments to our insulin through her Omni pod, the insulin pump that she's been using, since she's four years old, and right now she's a senior in high school. Anyway, we needed to make a Bolus we needed to increase her basil. And Arden was able to do that with a few clicks of a button. She didn't have to go to the nurse. She didn't have to pull out a syringe. She just click click click here we go on our way. And when we saw that Bolus work, we took the basil away right away. So we did a Temp Basal increase, then took it away temp and took it back and put it where we needed it. Understand instantaneously no walking to the nurse's office. You know you can't do that on MDI because once you've injected your Basal insulin, it's in there but we were able to use Arden's Basal insulin in conjunction with a Bolus to manipulate the situation. You could do that as well with the Omni pod, which is a tubeless insulin pump, a tubeless insulin pump that you can swim with or bathe with without taking off you know people are like oh, it's not a big deal to take something off while I take a shower. But what if this thing that happened to Arden today happened while she was in the shower, and she wasn't receiving any insulin at all? I think it's important to stay connected to your insulin and within the pod you can here's the last thing on the pod has going that I want to tell you about it's the Omni pod promise and this is how it works there's no need to wait for the next big thing from Omni pod because with the Omni pod promise you can upgrade to Omni pods latest technologies for no additional cost as soon as they're available to you and covered by your insurance terms and conditions apply but you'll be able to find the details at Omni pod comm forward slash juicebox Oh and if you're from Australia hold on for one second let me say one more thing that we're going to get back to Maddie Australians on the pod is now available for you learn more at Omni pod comm forward slash juice box a you the examples used here are from my daughter. Your results may vary. I didn't know this was an after dark episode when when you booked it but it is so that epi is the least interesting thing about you just so you know. But, but at the end, we will go over it so that we can understand it. But we're gonna get through this first. Because I'm right now feeling this happens to me sometimes when I'm doing these episodes like I am now feeling parental towards you, which is reasonable, but one of us is going to get you to therapy today and it's going to be me where I'm gonna. I'm gonna feel like I screwed up before it's over. Okay. But holy, what else is there going on that we don't know about?

Madi 38:26
Um, so, you know, obviously, like, I know, I stopped with the Dibley man and I started using my epi to lose weight. Um, but you know, during that era, I guess like 20 2020 was a crazy year for everyone.

Scott Benner 38:48
But how do you use epi to lose weight

Madi 38:52
so with the epi, um, I'm not able to process digest a lot of facts, facts. So I do so the epi basically is that my pancreas has been so damaged that I no longer release the enzymes to break down foods. And so if I don't take what they call them purtz on pancreatic exit or creating a cane or no pancreatic enzyme Replacement Therapy on so if the physically take pills that are filled with enzymes right before I eat in order to be able to absorb all of the fat and like the nutrition and you know, carbohydrates, proteins like that. So if I don't take them on before I eat, I'm not absorbing everything. So I don't gain as much weight. And I'm like mouth nutrition and it actually makes you know obviously my insulin sensitivity in Same you know, like I barely have to take any insulin because I'm hardly absorbing anything which I in my head I think that's fantastic, but I'm also like losing weight on top of that, which so I mean it's an awful awful thing. Another thing, just manipulating. Um

Scott Benner 40:15
Yeah, I think that's a hell of an insight from you really is that you're very busy in so many different times in your life just trying to manipulate reality to do something where there's a way to live in reality and those things happen as well. You know what I mean? You don't need because it must be exhausting is it not to constantly be thinking about this stuff?

Madi 40:40
Oh, it is. It definitely is. I have a million things on my mind all the time. You know, I'm obviously like my diabetes management on me. Oh, sorry. I was like hiccup on my other, you know, medical conditions. Um, you know, my, my son, you know, My son, you know, me and my son's father aren't together but you know, I do have them half a week and my son actually is in remission for cancer right now. So I mean, it's a lot

Scott Benner 41:14
she's you're gonna kill me Hold on a sec.

Madi 41:17
2020 was a crazy year. Yeah, he was diagnosed March 5 of last year with vitamin COVID. Hit what kind of cancer? Um, he has stage four. rhabdo Myo sarcoma cold is he? He's three and a half right now.

Scott Benner 41:32
Oh, my gosh, I'm sorry. What? What? And he's in remission right now.

Madi 41:37
Yeah, so he has about like four months left of maintenance chemo, and he should be able to ring that bell. So things are good.

Scott Benner 41:46
That's really cool that his prognosis is four more months of chemo and then he gets to call himself in remission or he gets to what

Madi 41:53
is like technically he is and remission now. His PET scans are showing that he's you know, technically cancer free but he does have to finish the maintenance chemo. And then we do some more scans to kind of make it official. I

Scott Benner 42:10
just found a picture of him. He looks just like you.

Madi 42:13
Oh, I wish I wish I could show you a picture of us. And we both have hair as toddlers. We fear doppelgangers.

Scott Benner 42:22
We had this face. And now I'm understanding. I think I'm understanding better why you shaved your head at some point to was

Madi 42:28
Yeah, yeah, it's been almost a year Exactly. I think, well, since we shaved their heads.

Scott Benner 42:35
Maddie, do you? I I'm at the point now where I I want somebody to give you a hug. So you know, it's funny. 20 minutes ago, I thought, wow, this girl's not doing great. And now I think it's possible. You're doing really well, considering everything is happening to you. No, seriously good for you. And I think you are like, I mean, I don't know how you. It's a lot. I just don't know another way to say that. That's your 24 gesture and 24. That's just way too much to have to do in the first 24 years of your life. So how do we? I mean, what do you have a plan for moving forward? Like do you have a goal for yourself?

Madi 43:29
I mean, my, my ultimate dream would be to live off my art. I've always loved art doing ever since like November, pre COVID. I was a tattoo apprentice for a while that was fun.

Scott Benner 43:48
She, you want to do you want to be a tattoo artist?

Madi 43:52
Possibly. I mean, since you know I stepped away for COVID because of COVID and my son. Um, I've just actually just recently gotten back into making art and selling it. And I think I want to take a minute to kind of explore my own style and make my own pieces and then possibly go back to tattooing.

Scott Benner 44:14
So do you are you drawing or what kind of media

Madi 44:18
so I do a lot of I'm mainly draw, but I'm trying to get into painting right now. I was thinking about taking a class on my local art shop. That would be really cool.

Scott Benner 44:30
Okay, how about your How about your mental health stuff? What's the play for that? Like? I don't, I don't think you can just hope that it's going to, oh,

Madi 44:43
I actually I actually had an appointment. I set up an appointment with my therapist on Monday, but I was in California this past weekend to visit my sister for my birthday. So I was supposed to come back on Sunday and then go to my appointment Monday and then she convinced me to stay another day. Um, so I missed my appointment. So I have to reschedule that.

Scott Benner 45:03
This is a startup appointment.

Madi 45:06
Yeah, it's a new startup. Okay. I mean, I've seen the guy before, but it's been so long that I have to do like another new patient appointment.

Scott Benner 45:15
Yeah. What if I asked you to promise me to just go every week? Would you do that?

Madi 45:21
Yeah, I actually used to go see him weekly. And then we started spacing it out.

Scott Benner 45:25
wasn't helping.

Madi 45:27
But was Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:28
Okay. I don't know you have, you have things that I don't have any perspective on, other than from the podcast. And I don't know, I feel like I'm supposed to say something here. And I don't know what to say. And I'm a little I'm you, you've made me feel lost. You didn't do anything wrong. But But, but the conversation has made me feel like a little lost. I feel like, if you were my daughter, I would, I would want to encourage you to take your enzyme pills before you eat. And use your insulin. Get your a one C as low as you can get your blood sugar's as stable as possible. You know, take nutrition and that your body needs. And try to believe that you're perfect the way you are, and don't need to look any different than however you look. I don't know how I would do that for you. But that is what I would want to do for you. See, welcome. Are you gonna cry yourself, swear to God, if you cry, Maddie, I'm gonna cry.

Oh, my God, I am, I am incredibly sad that you didn't get someone to care about you like that when you were little. But I don't think that that means that somebody isn't going to care about you like that, or that. At the very least, you shouldn't care about yourself like that. So maybe instead of looking for other people, to make you feel how you want to feel, maybe just the confidence that you are those things could come from yourself. I don't know if that's too much to ask. But I don't see that there's anything wrong with you that needs to be fixed from talking to you, or from looking at your life and photographs, you know, I realized that's a pretty removed thing still, but you don't have much going on that couldn't be that couldn't be made much better. And if you're having trouble doing it for yourself right now, maybe do it for your son, and then work into doing it for yourself, right? Because he's going to need you for a long time. And you don't want to make him. You don't want to do something inadvertently. That's going to have him 24 years old somewhere telling somebody Yeah, I have an eating disorder. I grew up watching my mom do that. And it's stuck to me. Because that could happen. You know? Yeah. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I don't know. After all that. You're you must have sat in a room and thought cancer. Are you serious? Like, do you scream at the at this? Oh, yeah.

Madi 48:18
Oh, yeah. like you wouldn't believe. My sister, you know, that I grew up with him. He's like, my number one, you know, um, you know, I called her and told her that night that, you know, we heard and she flew out the next morning, and it was hard because, you know, like, at the, you know, I did you know, like, step out, and I was just, like, cursing the heavens, you know, like, Oh, good. There'll be one more thing, you know, like, just really, really? And she like, No, just like, looked me in the face. And she was like, you know, obviously, like, I tell her everything. She knows everything I've gone through and she's like, I'm so sorry Maddie. Like, it hurt me seeing how hurt she was that I have been so hurt. You know? I'm so sorry. Like, like, everything.

Scott Benner 49:14
A lot of pain. And it's too it's too much for Listen, if you were 24 and raised by the two greatest parents on the face of the planet, I don't know how you'd be ready for this. Seriously, I I don't I would just feel like it would be too much. When you said there's more and it's worse. I thought how she's foolish. Like how is it going to be worse than this? You know. And there it is. It it is but it doesn't change it so there's a there's got to be a delineation between how sad This is and how unfair This is. And the fact that it is like this, and they like it or not. You're the mom and you're you're the one who's got the ability. To guide this ship in the right direction, do you don't mean like there's no one else? Like you're you know, you're not with your, your son's father?

Madi 50:08
You mean he's still like in his life? Oh, that's, that's good. Okay, yeah.

Scott Benner 50:16
But still, as you get older, you know, your son's probably going to gravitate towards being with his mom. And you know, you're going to make a lot of big decisions, and you're going to do things that are going to shape his existence and yours. And you have so much time, like, for all the I mean, that's, I think the really good news and all this is that for all the bad things that have happened, you're only 24. Now that might be confusing to you, because you're as old as you've ever been before. And so you feel like you're really old. But you're, you're barely starting, like life has literally just begun for you, your brains not even done forming yet. I don't know if you realize, okay, so you have, you have, you know, decades ahead of you way more time ahead of you than you have behind you. And there could possibly be a day in the future, where you don't remember your life, the way you're talking about it now, where you've built a new life. That is, is a celebration, and a joy. And that's how you think of life. And that's how your son will think of life. Like I think that's like really important to remember that just because all this stuff happened doesn't mean this is who you are, you could easily be somebody else starting right now. And I mean, look how easy it is you take your enzyme pill and take care of your blood sugar, and you've just eliminated some really big problems. You know what I mean? Yeah, and then talk to the therapist. And I would probably go out in the middle of the night and run in the desert and scream a little bit too. That sounds like a good idea. But don't because you'll run into a cactus and be killed by a hill a monster, you don't have any. Okay, stay inside.

Madi 51:59
It's actually really out there.

Scott Benner 52:03
Trust me, You never listen until you until you right what's going on here I would be, I would be worried that anything that like if you ever walk outside and they complain, it's gonna fall on your head. Because I feel like I feel like you know, a mountain is gonna fall over on me or something right now, like, that's my leg. saying, like, you'll just like if you if you went, if you went to the Grand Canyon, it would eat you get an amen, like you should stay away from all kinds of falls in class, wrap yourself up a little bit. I know that I I know that. So not to keeping in mind, I'm not a therapist, and I'm just a person chatting with you. I want to give you a little perspective on my side a little bit. And this is the one thing that no matter how many people I talked to, who have some sort of an eating disorder, I know that I know what it is like I understand that just your brain just does not see yourself the way you are. Right and that it's it pushes all this on you but being able to see your pictures, it makes it really shocking on my end, that you feel the way you described. And I think that that's a good indication that it's something that was caused by something else and that therapy really could help you untangle it and separate the pain you felt as a child from how you see yourself now that is my guess. Like i would i would i would really lean into therapy and i would i would really lean into how you see yourself and that eating disorder in that therapy seriously because you're not the person you think you are.

Madi 53:50
I know like logically I know

Scott Benner 53:53
no i and I'm sorry to even say it because I know you know and I know that's not the point but i think i think that that's a good jumping in spot to try to help yourself because that's it's just I don't know it's terrible that you're spending so much time and effort and thought on something that's just really a bullshit dia that some jackass put in your head when you were a kid. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. All right. Holy Should we take a break or go for a walk or I feel like I should smoke a cigarette I don't even I don't even certain what to do here is their I guess you probably want to tell all those people who say that I'm the proud owner of useless pancreas that their pancreas is not that useless, right? It doesn't

Madi 54:43
really mines like at most 5% functioning right now. So

Scott Benner 54:49
you know how people would type one or like my pancreas doesn't work and it still does a lot of things. Like help you digest your food. So I mean, like it would be I wish people knew that I know it's just a joke but you know it's not a useless pancreas it's just a seriously diminished pancreas it's not really the pancreas anyway, it's the beta cells but let's not get too technical it'll, it'll ruin everybody's t shirts. Alright, do you have any questions for me? Is there anything you want to talk about that we haven't?

Madi 55:23
Um I guess like really quickly I can just go over like how my mismanagement my diabetes led to me EPA, please say hello obviously, like I said, You know, I was diagnosed when I was seven. I wasn't, you know, taking care of, at all early on, I was kind of just know, I left to take care of it. By myself, you know, like, after all the custody battles and stuff and after that, you know, always in and out of hospital, like probably like every three months. And I moved here to Utah, and I was, you know, like, things are all everything is gonna be fixed everything for me better, you know, obviously, that wasn't the case, I was still you know, in my bad habits. Um, you know, I got really bad to the point and December of 2015, actually went into a coma because of that. And I, I survived, and I started, I went to rehab after that. And then, you know, I started taking care of myself a little bit better, I ended up you know, getting pregnant and I took care of myself then. Then after that, I just, like, slowly started like, declining, like back into my old ways. And then now after, you know, me and my son's father, that's what you know, I had gotten a little worse, a little worse, and I started going to the hospital again. And then I got the freestyle and like, everything started getting better. But then I noticed I started having like, really, really terrible stomach issues. And like, it got to a point where I was like, this is affecting, like my daily living like the quality of my daily life, like I have to get it checked out, something's wrong. Anyway, they did the tests and stuff and they took an ultrasound like they put a camera down, or an ultrasound machine, whatever you want to call it down my throat and take ultrasound of my pancreas. And they're like, you definitely have chronic pancreatitis. Like your pancreas is riddled with calcifications. Because of all of your mismanagement, like you, obviously, like never, basically never taken care of yourself for like a very, very long period of time. Like, oh, like over a year, like, it's just like you like, Bad. Bad days. But yeah, so they're like, you know, with all the other tests we've ran on you, you also have exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, you're gonna have to take these enzymes right before you eat every time for the rest of your life as well. Sounds like awesome. Awesome.

Scott Benner 58:14
Okay. Can I ask you after all this? Have you? avoided like anesthetizing yourself through like hard drugs and drinking? Do you not do that stuff? Now? How did you avoid all that? Cuz, you know, I just like, there's a moment while we were talking when I realized, like, this girl doesn't get high and she doesn't drink but I don't know how you didn't like fall into that.

Madi 58:43
I mean, like, you know, like I smoke like weed here and there, you know, I'll socially drink. Actually, I can't drink now because of my epi. Um, but before you know I go like socially drink but I've never gone like really hard into it.

Scott Benner 58:59
Yeah, let's face it. I mean, it's, it's, I'm happy for you, but it's kind of fascinating. Like it feels like the kind of story that that ends with, you know, a drumroll at the end and they're like, and so I've been off heroin for three weeks. Like it just felt like it was heading that way and then I realized it wasn't and I was like, I think it's possible you're the strongest 24 year old person I've ever met in my life. Like that's what I've come up with that many. Yeah, now that is what I've come up with. And I think that if you I think that if you can get on top of some of this other stuff, you might see a lot of success from that strength. You know, like imagine where it might take you if it wasn't so busy fighting all this crap.

Madi 59:41
It's been like besides like, like I saw like, my diabetes is doing like well now on like, it's just pretty much my epi that I'm not managing. Besides that, you know, everything else in my life is going pretty good. You know, like I said, like, I'm a single mom. And I'm like I said, his He hasn't had the time. You know, I have my own apartment. I pay my car payment. I have the dog. I'm living life on my own little bit.

Scott Benner 1:00:13
Yeah, that's amazing. I think that I'm sorry my voice is echoing it confused me for a second. I think it sounds like you're doing terrific and it sounds like you're moving in the right direction. I just don't think you should be hard headed about taking help about it. Because I think you can probably get where you're going more efficiently and probably more quickly. Oh, yeah. You know, with with somebody says assistance.

Madi 1:00:37
I'm very stubborn, unfortunately. And I know it.

Scott Benner 1:00:41
Stop that. Okay. Please. Holy crap is there I want to make sure is there anything else you missed anything?

Madi 1:00:51
I think that might be it, I think. Okay. All right. If you want to part two, we can do a part two. Just keep on going.

Scott Benner 1:00:59
I don't know I don't see how you don't get to come back on every year for as long as I do this podcast. There's a couple of people. I'm telling you there are a couple of people I've said that too and you are definitely we're gonna stop the recording and I'm going to make that offer to you 100%. First, a huge thank you to Maddie for coming on the show and sharing her life with us. And also need to thank and I also want to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor you can find out more@dexcom.com forward slash juice box there's also links in the show notes of your podcast player and links to all the advertisers at Juicebox Podcast comm when you click the links you're hoping to show and don't forget to find out about that on the pod on the pod.com forward slash juice box and of course for you Australians on the pod.com forward slash juice box a you check into that free 30 day trial the Omni pod dash you may be eligible. And don't forget about the Omni pod promise.

There are many series inside of the Juicebox Podcast This one is after dark. Other after dark episodes include eating disorders, diabetes, complications, being the child of divorce, living with bipolar disorder, sexual assault and PTSD using psychedelics heroin addiction, Ballymena and depression, divorce and co parenting having sex from both a male and female perspective when you have type one diabetes, depression and self harm trauma, addiction, drinking and smoking weed check them out at Juicebox Podcast comm you can just scroll down a little bit till the after dark then you'll see all the series actually algorithm pumping, how we eat all different kinds of ways that people eat when they have diabetes. The variable series which is a new and I dare I say fun series short episodes talking about different variables that impact your blood sugar's, there's the finding diabetes, which is the series that defines the terms that you use every day and may not understand. And of course the diabetes pro tip episodes. I'm very very proud of them. I think you should give them a try. Okay, well, that was sort of anticlimactic at the end. So let me like ramped the energy back up and say thanks so much again for listening. I appreciate it when you guys share the show with other people show is doing incredibly well because of you because you're sharing it. If you're enjoying it, please leave a beautiful rating and review wherever you listen. But most of all, tell someone about the show. It's how it grows. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast. I appreciate you guys.

#557 Pat & Scott's Excellent Conversation

Patrick is a young adult living with type 1 diabetes.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Friends Hello, this is Episode 557 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's episode of the Juicebox Podcast, I'm speaking with Patrick, who is a young man that lives with Type One Diabetes. It also lives with him. He has diabetes, he's diabetic, say in any way you want. Patrick's here, he's got T one, and we're gonna have a really great conversation that you're going to adore. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Don't forget to head over to the T one D exchange and fill out their survey. That's right. If you're a US resident who has type one, or a US resident who cares for someone with type one, in under 10 minutes, you can answer a few simple questions that will incredibly amazingly immaculately benefit people living with type one diabetes, and it'll support the podcast p one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box trying to get the 2000 surveys by the end of diabetes Awareness Month.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo cuyp open. Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. The episode is also sponsored by touched by type one you can find out more about them at touched by type one.org. Touched by type one has just put tickets on sale for their annual dancing for diabetes show. It's on November 13. This year at the Walt Disney theater in Orlando, Florida. Go to touched by type one.org to get your tickets to dancing for diabetes. Dancing for diabetes is a powerful and exceptionally entertaining dance showcase. It features 300 nationally recognized and award winning dancers in one unforgettable evening. When I did that, I was like unforgettable. Look, you don't need me to do this. Touched by type one.org. Click on dancing for diabetes. You'll get all the information you need.

Pat 2:34
Yeah, are you doing?

Scott Benner 2:35
Ah I'm alright. It's a spring break here for my daughter so Oh, wow. It's a weird, weird time. My wife was like, why are you recording this week? I said I don't get spring break.

Pat 2:49
You're doing how many episodes? Are you into this now?

Scott Benner 2:53
Oh, 460 ish.

Pat 2:56
around. Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

Scott Benner 2:59
And you'll probably be my God. You'll probably be 500 520 when it comes out eventually. So

Pat 3:09
Oh, my goodness. Yes. You're working hard than I am.

Scott Benner 3:13
I just don't want to. I want to treat the podcast like it's a podcast, not like it's a thing. A diabetes thing? I don't know if that makes sense or not. But, but you know what I mean?

Pat 3:26
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, I like it. And are you on the East Coast or West Coast?

Scott Benner 3:32
I'm in New Jersey. You're out west jersey. Okay.

Pat 3:34
Yeah, I'm out west. I'm up bright and early. 6am.

Scott Benner 3:38
That's the thing that, um, I thought when I saw the when I saw the booking, I was like, I think that's really early for him. So thank you. I appreciate you doing that.

Pat 3:47
Oh, definitely. Yeah, you're busy, like booked up, too, which is amazing.

Scott Benner 3:53
It's hard to get on the show at this point. I did want on I had to do one for somebody that, you know, it's kind of like time sensitive. And they're like, Well, you know, when can we do it? I said, July. And she's like, No, we need it sooner. And I was like I could I there's one day a week that I edit and I don't record I guess I could do it that day. And you know, so I found myself doing that, but it's good. That's nothing to complain about.

Pat 4:22
Yeah. Wow. And so you just do this with just you know, any any diabetic who kind of wants to get on the show, or

Scott Benner 4:30
I turned some people down. But yeah, not, not many. I think that the there's something about the desire to do the show that brings out a certain kind of person.

Pat 4:40
Oh, I see. I like it. Yeah, there's a vetting process

Scott Benner 4:45
that happens without me being involved. And then the next part of the vetting process is that it takes so long after you put down a date to record. So basically I sit here five minutes before the recording time and if you're here, I assume you really want to do that.

Pat 5:01
Yes. Oh, that makes sense. I like

Scott Benner 5:05
to stay like that. Anyway, you sound terrific. It's your recording. Well, that's fantastic. What you just do is introduce yourself anyway you want to be known. Just meaning you don't need to use your last name or you know, if you end up bringing up a friend or a sibling or something, you don't have to say their name. You could say my brother, you know, that kind of stuff. But other than that, you introduce yourself and then we'll, we'll just get started.

Pat 5:29
Okay, and then we'll just go from there.

Scott Benner 5:33
I'll ask a question, you'll answer the question. And that'll happen over and over again till we're done.

Pat 5:37
Okay, I like it. All right, let me know when you're ready. at your leisure. Okay, well, Hello. My name is Patrick. I'm from Sacramento, California. And I have Type One Diabetes pattern. I never get to say that. I've ever started off like that. Never. You know, that's not my go to my go to like, Hey, this is who I am that I you know, I like to say it's a new new thing.

Scott Benner 6:10
That's interesting. I mean, it makes sense, right? You don't want to wander up to new people. And you're like, hey, I've got diabetes. Also, crazy booger came out of my left nostril.

Pat 6:20
You know? Yeah. So I never i i'd like to hear that for the first time for sure.

Scott Benner 6:27
Did you like saying it?

Pat 6:29
I think that it's something you know, interesting about who I am. And you know what I've had to deal with most of my life. So I do. I do like, you know, telling me I think a lot of people think that I'm, I could be embarrassed by it. So they don't really try to bring it up ever. But I like talking to people about it. So I do like saying,

Scott Benner 6:52
Hi, are you embarrassed by it? Or is it just something you think people around? You

Pat 6:57
know, yeah, I think some people like kinda, you know, tiptoe around it, or beat around the bush about it. So I'm not embarrassed about I love talking about it. So it's not bad.

Scott Benner 7:10
Nice. That's excellent. All right. So you were you're 20? Are you 24 now?

Pat 7:14
I am 25. Oh,

Scott Benner 7:18
that's something we were talking about before we started recording is that it takes a long time to get on the show you were 24 when you sent the email.

Pat 7:26
I didn't even realize I was taking a couple bloods for sure. And then I, I got a gala, you know, a little promotion. So then we had to move it back even further. But I'm glad I'm on here.

Scott Benner 7:38
No, yeah, I am, too. And I am realizing now that I'm only one clerical error away from putting this up while you're 26. So I just put up a show the other day, I had to write the person that was on it to apologize. And I had like a few files on my computer that got read, dated somehow. And I don't know if I opened them. And that changed the date on them. And then they moved around in this folder that I have of recorded material that needs to, you know, go through the editing process. And so they slid way up. So I put out an episode yesterday that I think I recorded like 18 months before that. And oh my goodness, and it was really good. And I enjoyed it. And so I you know, I definitely want to pull up and I wrote the personal like I am so sorry, this is not a judgment of what you did on the podcast. I just got messed up. And anyway, we're just, we're just we're just a couple of mistakes shy of you having two kids when this podcast?

Pat 8:35
Well, I can't wait for that you didn't even look forward to it a couple years ago. It's not bad.

Scott Benner 8:42
So how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Pat 8:45
I was 16. So right in the middle of high school, which is a is a crazy, I think it's a crazy time to get it. Just because you're, you know, in your youth that also kind of growing into that adulthood stage and your whole life kind of just changes in a in a weekend. So

Scott Benner 9:08
where were you in the in the progression of your maturity? And I mean that by saying that for parents who are listening, I think a lot of parents know that when your kids are that age. Your basic goal then is to stave off any of the things that you don't hope that they do for as long as possible, right. Like, I wonder how this kid from having sex and drinking or doing drugs like this is what I'm trying for, right? Yeah.

Pat 9:36
Yeah, and I was I actually was in the middle of a basketball season. And that's when the doctors think that I somehow got it. And since I was in my honeymoon stage, you know, I didn't really I couldn't tell when I was playing basketball. And right when it ended is when I just went straight, you know, losing 20 You're super sick all the time and peeing a lot and so I got it right after basketball season I remember it because I just I we were in the playoffs and I couldn't even play I was just so so sick so it was yes right then right when a dad Debbie Have you ever heard of like more for gala or anything like that where the girl asked the guy so I got it I got it a couple days before that after a girl had asked me with a buttload of olive enjoys I got I came back the you know two days later after she had asked me for with all my joys and everyone in school but she gave me diabetes

Scott Benner 10:47
that was the that was the vibe going around school

Pat 10:51
they didn't know how to diabetes I mean I didn't even know how diabetes work so that was kind of the whole funny story was that you know girl gave me diabetes by asking asking me the gala so

Scott Benner 11:03
tell you I think if I'm enjoying can give you diabetes in two days we don't know

Pat 11:08
yeah well I don't know I've heard no no likes all the joys I've heard that you know all you'd have all day long.

Scott Benner 11:17
Patrick I'm just saying my imagination tells me if that was true that at the end of every news broadcast on everything they'd they'd finished they'd be like in the Dow is down 35 points today and before we go Don't forget almond joys give you diabetes in two days. Be everywhere, you know,

Pat 11:33
please disregard all the joys from your daily life.

Scott Benner 11:37
He would turn on the TV and just see people picketing Washington like stop Almond Joy, like, you know,

Pat 11:44
they already do that.

Scott Benner 11:46
It's just interesting how kids minds work like and what sounds like an amusing story that becomes you know, you know what I mean? Because somebody said it and thought that's funny. So they told somebody else who thought that's funny and then the next thing you know it's everywhere.

Pat 11:59
But yeah, definitely. I mean the girl even thought she did. She was said on it. And I was like, No, okay, like, yeah, I gotta stop it.

Scott Benner 12:08
Do you still know her? Yeah, definitely

Pat 12:11
Okay, that we're still we're still good friends for sure. So

Scott Benner 12:15
beyond believing that candy gives you diabetes in two days.

Pat 12:20
She felt really bad. Like trust me it wasn't you.

Scott Benner 12:24
dance.

Pat 12:26
Yo course Yeah, I said yeah. Oh, of course.

Scott Benner 12:30
I find it's best when ever women are kind to you to just say thank you. That's yeah

Pat 12:36
100% I agree completely with all the enjoy you give them all enjoy with it.

Scott Benner 12:40
I have to be honest, if my wife approached me with candy, I'd think I would probably think I was sick and I didn't know it. And she was like, she felt bad. I'm not certain. But yeah, I guess in 16 it just seems nice. Well so to get back to my question at 16 Not that I didn't enjoy our little offshoot there but at 16 were you a party kid? Were you a pretty like were you more like you know still in mature were you not like that like what kind of like social person were you then?

Pat 13:10
Yeah, definitely. I was uh, I was just a basketball kid I was just in the sports you know, I was playing basketball year round and absolutely loved it and then I got diabetes and my whole world kind of changed so I my maturity changed with it. So I wasn't you know, I was in no way a mature kid or anything like that. And then getting that kind of getting diabetes right after kind of just put me into this world when trying to figure out who I was and what type of a you know, person I was. And so I quit basketball the next The following season, because I just could not figure out how to play basketball and have it work for me with diabetes, you know? I would I would get super sick on the court, you know, I'd get low and my my coach would have to take me out five minutes into the game and I just be sitting there like what why am I even here? You know, like, I don't understand what like why is this happening to me? So that threw me for a loop for sure. And that's when I started getting into partying because we're you know, 16 is kind of the age where the, you know, in high school, they just started partying a little bit so I started hanging up the kids who were going out and you know, drinking smoking, you know, all that stuff. So I started hanging out with them. And that's, that's where, yeah, I mean, I learned a lot from it for sure.

Scott Benner 14:49
Well, so you were really focused on it's interesting because this is I didn't know if you were gonna say this or not, but it was what I was wondering like you are at an inflection point in your life with Do you realize it or not? And if you could have kept playing basketball, do you think that that meant enough to you that you would have avoided sort of that other stuff for a longer time? Or do you think you were always headed towards it? Is it hard to look back? And no,

Pat 15:12
I think that I would have, I would have stepped with basketball, and it would have kind of, you know, deterred me from doing that stuff as often as I had done it. So I think basketball definitely, you know, just because you're there, you're practicing every day, you're, you're at games at night, so there, there's not a lot of time for you to go, you know, hang out at the river with your friends. So I think when I quit, I just had a lot of a lot more time on my hands where I was just like, hanging out, you know, always after school, just like, Hey, want you to go hang out the river. So I definitely think that basketball kind of would have helped me but I also do have that personality where I'm like, I want to experiment and you know, try these things as well. So So

Scott Benner 16:06
you were just you were really just kind of putting these other ideas on hold, because you because you like playing basketball so much.

Pat 16:13
Definitely. And I think at the time basketball was like kind of just my saving grace, where I didn't care about anything else, you know, when I was playing basketball, I loved it and didn't didn't really need anything more. And then when I quit basketball, I didn't have that saving grace, or didn't have anything like that to kind of help me out. And so that's when I went, you know, experimenting, the partying, and I remember my first time at drinking after I got diabetes. And I remember, I just was so I was so sick. I think I was drinking orange juice and vodka. And you know, I didn't know what I was doing. I was drinking a ton of sugary stuff and alcohol. And it was a it was a scary time for sure. Yeah, this because I just got completely, you know, sick and couldn't stop throwing up. And it was bad. But after I was just like, I'm glad that I'm learning how to do this at the same time. So there's a weird transition.

Scott Benner 17:22
Well, so in that scenario, you're hammered. And you're driving your blood sugar high.

Pat 17:27
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, getting out of the hospital, they're, they're teaching you stuff, but it didn't connect at all to me. So, you know, probably I think a week or two later is when I was drinking and, you know, I was chasing with orange juice or drinking with the orange juice or something like that. And yeah, so my blood sugar was spiking, and I just couldn't stop. Yeah, I just couldn't stop throwing up the whole night.

Scott Benner 17:54
I have more questions about that. But I'm imagining that this last little segment, anybody who's listening, who's in their teens right now is like, this is why my dad makes me practice the violin so much.

Pat 18:06
If you play the violin, I am jealous.

Scott Benner 18:10
But I'm just saying like, just stay in your room and do that thing and don't talk to you. Yeah. So, I want to go to your saying that you you went from not being a drinker, to getting diagnosed, and two weeks later, by the way, you drank like an old lady in the 40s it's funny you're having Reebok and

Pat 18:36
whatever you can get your hands to do 16

Scott Benner 18:39
when you were 17 did you move to a gimlet? or

Pat 18:43
hopefully I'm hoping I did.

Scott Benner 18:46
But so you don't know anything functionally about how to manage your diabetes? And are you rebelling? I mean, I don't think that it seems unlikely to me Patrick, I guess I should say that you were like oh, well now that basketball is gone I can move on to my secondary choice drinking by the river. So um, yeah, so I'm, I'm thinking that by the way, I'm fairly sure this episode is gonna be called drinking by the river unless you say something else. But, but like, do you think you were like drowning your sorrows? Do you think you were in a panic about the diabetes?

Pat 19:18
I think that it was it was I think it was a mold you know, multifactor situation where I mean, I had tried drinking before diabetes, but obviously, not worrying about the blood sugar is a little easier. And then when that happened, you know, I had to really switch up how it my thought process works, but I definitely think it was at the time obviously I didn't think I was drowning my you know, drowning. my sorrows are my anxieties about having this disease. But now looking back on it, I think it did have a bigger effect on us. On my life for sure, but I also love to have fun and I definitely love to try new things and I don't necessarily regret doing it just because I learned so much and I learned a lot about diabetes even though it was it was a harder time you know I've gone through you know the the most a dream being in all of that but I definitely learned a lot a lot through doing all that so I wouldn't even say I necessarily regretted it because I did have a lot of fun at the same time. But you definitely can say that I was kind of trying to not think about diabetes and rebel against what was happening with my body.

Scott Benner 20:50
Yeah, no, I am I'm not judging you. I just I'm trying to understand how you get from one place to another ay ay ay ay if you do listen to the podcast with any regularity

Pat 21:00
I listened to a couple episodes for sure not not a crazy amount but definitely a couple

Scott Benner 21:06
just because I don't you might know that I don't drink so I don't understand the but I don't have a judgement about it I just don't understand the like when you say have fun I think of having fun and being coherent like yes yeah, so I just I recognize that that's not how everybody thinks about it. But and I definitely understand that at that age and then with all that pressure did the pressure hit you in any other ways did your grades change? Did you start robbing banks? Is there anything else that

Pat 21:36
I mean, I think that there's a there's a pressure of being in high school when kids are starting to turn into that you know, like experimenting or partying phase where I wanted to keep up with my with my friends. And at the same time I really probably couldn't have as much as I tried just because of diabetes so I think there is there's there's always kind of pressures going on in high school where diabetes cannot hold you back. And I for sure was just fighting as much as I could not let that happen. But yeah, I I really think that like you said, Yeah, obviously having fun, sober is great too. But in high school, you just want to you want to you know, be with the crowd almost and keep, keep trying different things and having fun like that. So I think that the pressures of that kind of kind of threw me for a loop and then my grades did start dwindling to. I don't know if that's just because I did not like high school at all, or diabetes kind of put me in that but I definitely started drop my grades started dropping a little bit because basketball you had to keep a certain GPA. And then once I was out of that, there's nothing really to stop me from going too low. So

Scott Benner 23:05
you just kind of rolled with it that and just went wherever it went.

Pat 23:09
I just rolled with it. And my mom helped me out, you know, crazy amount. She is he is she's definitely one of the you know, I give her all the respect in the world for you know, I mean, I was going through diabetes that she was going through diabetes too. And so I give her all the respect in the world because he really, really pushed me to, you know, keep my grades up and get me into college. And so a shout out to her. Without her I would not be where I am today.

Scott Benner 23:45
Feeling like she threw a saddle on your back and rode you to college. She's like now go over this way and do this and jump over that and listen, not that children don't need that, you know, somebody guiding them along the way. I have to say I'm disappointed when I joked about you're robbing a bank at one day someone's gonna blurt something out on the podcast, but I'm just gonna be like, oh my god. Finally, you know, like you just I was just like, would imagine if you're like I did knock over a couple of convenience stores. And

Pat 24:10
I see diabetic Bonnie and Clyde is

Scott Benner 24:12
out of my mind. I would I would point my insulin pump at them through my coat. Do you use a pump? Or do you are you using di?

Pat 24:21
Yeah, I use the pump. And I'm loving. I'm using the Medtronic pump, but I've heard the other. I Dexcom I definitely want to try to get into that because I've read some great things about that.

Scott Benner 24:35
Yeah, it's very cool. It really is. But I'm just I'm happy you have something going. Were you How long have you been on the pump? Have you? Was it recent? Or have you been doing it for a long time?

Pat 24:45
Only couple I think probably a year now is how long I've been on the pump in high school. Like I said I was fighting as much as I could. They're trying to put me on the pump. I said no, I'm not going to do that. I stuck with the insulin pens and that probably didn't help my situation at times either just losing them and you know all that good stuff that comes with the insulin pens so I actually just started using it last year and I absolutely love it

Scott Benner 25:18
yeah I mean you're older now it's funny because for people who are I can't think of their names but there's these two guys that prank like local municipalities in California.

Pat 25:28
Oh, okay. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 25:29
know what I mean. That right and because of because I'm aware of that you're like you have an accent to like give it you have like a California accent so you like when you popped on at first I'm like, is this guy gonna prank me? Oh my goodness. guys are amazing. But I'm never gonna think of their name and I feel bad about that. But but so you're saying if I'm if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that you resisted a pump or anything that would make you look different through high school.

Pat 26:02
Uh, I don't think make me look different. I think just like, because going from pens to a pump, your your lifestyle changes up again. And I think I was fighting the lifestyle change. Just because that first time when I got diabetes and went to the pins, like that was a big enough lifestyle change for me to just be like, I'm good off anything else? Yeah. And so they're, you know, because you have to go through training and you kind of have to test it out. And so I did a test run like I think it was like a three day test run. And the part that I just was like, I am not gonna I think that it popped out when I when I was sleeping. And I was like, yeah, I'm just not going to try this change that quickly. You you'd be so good.

Scott Benner 26:51
How many people say that I was when I started recognizing that that was a real driver for people just the idea of like, I've already been through a new thing that I had to learn I don't want to learn another new thing.

Pat 27:03
Yeah, so I just I mean, like, when I was in school, I would I you know, I wouldn't care where I did my insulin, you know, I did in front of my friends. I'd let you know, I'd let my friends do it. If they're like, Oh, can I see what how this works? I'm like, sure, like, you know, give me a shot. But it's the it's exactly your rights, the change. It's just the big change. And, you know, I was trying to fight any of that I could for sure.

Scott Benner 27:28
No, I it's um, it's interesting to hear you say that because it's not my first inclination from the outside to think that it would be about the change I would always think it would be about the hiding but and so the problem with MDI for you wasn't that you minded? Anybody seeing you in jack, it was that you were literally losing the pens and stuff like that.

Pat 27:49
Yeah, and lose the pens or the needle, you know, break off or the the cartridge would get jammed? Stuff like,

Scott Benner 28:01
just just regular. Maybe if you were not handing them to everybody to jab you with they would. How many of your friends do you think ever got home? I was like, I'm an insulin pen in my bag. I wonder why this is?

Pat 28:12
Oh, man. I mean, I've had, like, you know, friends have a party and I accidentally leave my llantas my long lasting pen at their house where, and you know, they're not supposed to have anybody over or anything like that. And all of a sudden they're fighting and, you know, a needle in their in their couch. Like, what is

Scott Benner 28:33
this? There was no one here, I promise.

Pat 28:36
Yeah, exactly. It's hard to explain for sure.

Scott Benner 28:41
How did you um, did you go right to college right after high school?

Pat 28:45
Yeah, I went to Sac State right after high school. Okay. So I didn't even move out my first couple years, which was kind of kind of a nice transition. I wanted to go to SBCC, which is in Santa Barbara. And I am just so glad I didn't do that. Especially with diabetes. I think it's a lot of a lot of partying and probably not the best not the best idea for a diabetic.

Scott Benner 29:12
Patrick, you would not have trusted yourself in that scenario.

Pat 29:16
I don't think so. I think I mean, even coming out of high school, you know, I wasn't I wasn't mature at all. I still still was like, you know, I want to go to a party school and I want to have fun. And again, my mom was like, let's get into it. Let's get you into Sac State instead. And I think that really, really saved me for sure. Because, you know, I I was staying at home I was saving money, which was amazing to like now that you know, I'm out of college and appreciate that. A lot more money saved. I can just like so grateful for that. And then But yeah, I mean, Santa Barbara would have just been a madhouse, for sure. So

Scott Benner 29:57
yeah, and nobody does the math on a four year have college divided by monthly payments for you know the foreseeable rest of your life future nice not to Oh people that money that's for certain Yes Do you think your mom was a little Do you think your mom knew that staying home was the right thing for you?

Pat 30:16
I think that I don't know if it was staying home but I think it was just going to a community college in a place known for partying like you know it's it probably wasn't the best for me and where I was at in life and again I was still not even doing my pump yet so I was still doing my my insulin shots so that you know that also didn't help and I didn't even realize it to last year when I got my pump like how amazing it is to know your blood sugar as often as you do that yeah I just it's crazy that I didn't do that

Scott Benner 31:00
in the years prior to that how was your care like wherever your a onesies falling

Pat 31:06
they were falling between six and seven they were pretty good but I think it also was from me getting you know super high and then taking a lot of insulin to get super low yeah and so it's kind of just the highs and lows that bounced it out so yeah they're not sure if that you

Scott Benner 31:29
know that's cheating Patrick that doesn't count yeah

Pat 31:31
dude the median right now

Scott Benner 31:35
it's like it's like if on the weekend like during the week you were a murder for hire but on the weekends you volunteered at a homeless shelter that doesn't mean I was doing good things on the weekends Yeah, that does not equal like a decent life so what happens is it just throws the math off so the test you know you've got these crazy highs which of course are not good for your body at these crazy lows which are dangerous and not good for your body. But it still throws off the test and it's like oh look and then you end up in the doctor's office he's gone Oh you're between a six and a seven you're doing terrific. And yeah, I know exactly. And not enough of how do we get how did we get to this and they don't talk enough about limiting that variability and how important that is for for overall health I think that's a it can't be said enough it's a very common misconception that if the numbers Okay, you know quote unquote Okay, then you must be doing everything as well as possible. Yeah, so having I'm assuming you're wearing like the 670 maybe the metro Yes, yes, I'm

Pat 32:40
wearing the 670 right now so

Scott Benner 32:42
you have the Guardian CGM. I do yeah. And so now you get to see what happens that that change the way you were living or using insulin.

Pat 32:52
I think that I mean the funny part was when I first started I was knocking I was well I didn't realize how many doorways that I hit when I walked around the house because I beat I was hitting doorways and my big my sensor was popping off but every you know every two days I was having to change it so I'm glad I'm not you know I'm not a question anymore and hidden so many things but I definitely as it definitely has just made me more aware of my health in my body and just like how to how how seriously I do need to take diabetes and I mean it sucks that it takes so long but at the same time you know I don't think I would have ever been able to my mindset wouldn't have changed at all. I think it was just kind of growing in maturity and seeing how you know seeing how diabetes really is to where the punches made me like so grateful that I was like okay you know yeah, I need to start focusing on this and making sure that it's that I'm you know, doing stuff that are healthy for my body because my eggs especially with friends like you know friends will go out and will eat or do all that and they don't have a care in the world and I'm like I need to you know, sit down and really, really make sure my help is on point. So later on in life, I can still do these things.

Scott Benner 34:18
Yeah, no kidding. It's so interesting to hear. Patrick Please don't take this the wrong way. But no, it's so interesting to hear someone who sounds like they're in bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure have a really thoughtful life idea

Pat 34:34
you know, it's maybe it's no one in California I'm from Sacramento so we're not a beach town at all right? And so no one in California would ever say I sound like a Californian no 100%

Scott Benner 34:44
and I'm trust me you know I'm mispronouncing 1000 words in your eyes and everything and I get that but it's just for me it's it's fascinating. It's It's It's like, I don't know it's sort of like The Big Lebowski like you're like there's a guy on a couch like You know, with a drink in his hand has been high all day saying something profound about life and you're like, it's interesting.

Pat 35:09
You know, I'll take the Big Lebowski.

Scott Benner 35:13
So, it just because because what you said, I found to be moving, honestly, and really thoughtful. And I'm glad you came to it in your mid 20s for certain, and I'm and it makes me worried about people who don't come to it as quickly or never do. But still. It's excellent. Do you credit? I think I heard you credit just being more mature. Like through there. So it wasn't like so you're like, were you in that situation where like, you knew you got high and you knew you got low, but the ANC was fine. So you're like, I'm alright. And then you get a little older and realize maybe I need to be more careful about this.

Pat 35:51
Yeah, well, I mean, I think when I was younger, I I didn't feel my body, you know, going through such like stress of high blood sugar or low blood sugar. I didn't like now, you know, when I have a high blood sugar, my, you know, my heart is beating super fast. And I'm getting all these all the symptoms. And I don't think I I really don't think that I focused on that when I was younger. And so it didn't seem like a big deal at the time, if that made sense does. So it didn't seem like you know, it didn't seem like my body was going through anything. It just felt like, Oh, I need to go, I need to get lower. So let's just put some insulin in, and let's do whatever I need to do. But now it's like, okay, let's make sure I don't get high. And let's check my blood, you know, as much as I can to make sure that it's good. So

Scott Benner 36:51
it feels like the difference between heading out to sea in a boat with a hole in it. And then just spending all your time bailing it out versus fixing the hole before you leave? Yeah. 100% a little bit of pre planning. I, Patrick, I want to get your input on this real quick. I'll give you a producer credit on this one. Do you like better? Patrick and Scott's Excellent Adventure or Scott and Patrick's Excellent Adventure for a title? I think your name first right?

Pat 37:16
I don't know, Scott, that's excellent event adventures. That's pretty amazing.

Scott Benner 37:22
Maybe that's what we do.

Pat 37:24
You keep up with the day, you gotta you gotta get your day back.

Scott Benner 37:28
Trust me, my name gets set enough, that's fine. People are gonna be like, I know he's putting his name in the titles and ask Yeah,

Pat 37:38
he's all over the place.

Scott Benner 37:39
I have to say, You're an interesting person to tell us do. So once in a while I'll just because you've listened, but not a whole lot. I want some, I'll get noticed. And I'll be like, you talk way more than the guests. And I put out a transcript of the show now. So like, if you go to the website, you can find a written transcript of the show. And it tells me how much I to speak versus how much the other person speaks. And I don't talk that much more than the guest by the way.

Pat 38:09
You made sure that you had to put some stats to prove it.

Scott Benner 38:14
I've been dying to be able to say this in an episode somewhere because I told my wife I was like, you know, it turns out it's 6040. And that makes sense because I'm asking the questions, right? So it's not like I get these notes like I'm when I read them. I'm like, What am I What am I talking like, 85% of the time or something, but it's not that I just haven't just remember the evidence for it too. Damn right. I'm gonna start publishing it everything. Can you imagine if every week on like social media, you just send me I just send out a percentage episode for 8560 6161 30.

Unknown Speaker 38:56
Gotta do it.

Scott Benner 38:59
Well, yeah. Isn't it funny too, when you say 6139 you're like, see talks too much. But if I would have said 5941 you'd be like, oh, it feels pretty balanced.

Pat 39:09
Exactly. Your brain was good. Yeah, I was gonna save our 55th Yes, please. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm kidding. Let

Scott Benner 39:15
me be honest, it's never 5050 but although that's not true, there are somewhere actually I'm on the low side. And, and the other person speaks way more than I do. But that's not the point. My point is stop sending me mean emails. The podcast. podcast is free. Shut up. Free Yeah, you mean

Pat 39:37
you got to send him a juice box if they said to me an email Dude,

Scott Benner 39:39
I get complaints sometimes would make you think somebody paid like 10 grand for this. Like, what's up? Like, you're not making payments like relax?

Pat 39:50
Yeah, I didn't even know you can get complaints for me. Come on.

Scott Benner 39:54
You would think right anyway. So okay, so what did you go to like you don't have to tell them exactly what you do. But like what kind of work do you do once you go to college for

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Hey, you live in Florida get those tickets for the dancing for diabetes show. Come on, head to touch by type one.org forward slash juicebox plunked down your hard earned cash support a wonderful organization see a bunch of great dancing, I would Jump and dance. But my leotard is at the cleaners.

Pat 41:12
I went to college in communications because I really didn't know what I wanted to do. So I went, went to college for that, and started working in government and absolutely loved it. So I worked in you know, the governor's office and city hall. And then worked on a campaign right after college. And thought, you know, this is a pretty, pretty nice career that I I'm starting to kind of create for myself. And then the pandemic hit. And I did a presidential campaign and they ended when the pandemic kit. And then I was kind of just jobless for a little bit working at a bar in Sacramento, and then switched it up and said, You know what, I'm moving to San Francisco, and starting a job in tech sales. So that's where I'm at now is actually I moved to San Francisco a couple months ago. And now I'm in tech sales.

Scott Benner 42:13
Amazing that you could have gone that you went from working towards getting a person elected for president to a bar. That's, it's fascinating. Like when you said that you just made every parent in the world scared for their child. They were like, Yeah, right. Wait, what happened? Say it again. But that's cool. So you just kind of reframed yourself took your skills and put them somewhere else.

Pat 42:36
Yeah, well, I mean, also I shouldn't say that I had I worked at the bar previously, too. It was a it wasn't just because of the pandemic but yes, it is. It's a it was a crazy switch from you know, working 80 hours a week to working at the bar.

Scott Benner 42:52
Be honest with you after the first 15 minutes of the show. You didn't shock me when you said you worked at a bar. Yeah, it wasn't like oh my gosh, I didn't see that coming.

Unknown Speaker 43:01
I do I do. Love

Pat 43:04
super fun. I've talked about complaints though.

Scott Benner 43:09
Well, I hear from people who work at restaurants that it's just a big orgy between the the people that work there just hopped from person to person apparently that's why we closed the restaurants down during COVID Yeah, because

Pat 43:24
a lot of spreading of it

Scott Benner 43:27
you didn't realize when they closed your restaurant it wasn't because of the transmission it was because they couldn't count on the employees to stay away from each other. Anyway that might not be true or a lot of people who work at restaurants right now are nodding along going oh yeah, that's definitely yeah it's a weird schedule. And then at the end of the night you're all just sort of alone in the rest of the world doesn't exist and so that's your that's your pool of people then.

Pat 43:52
Oh, yeah, I mean working. I worked at a beer house so we actually close that, you know, 10 or 11 at latest. So I mean, I can't imagine what the bar is opening or closing at 2am was like, you know, Sprague like that because that's that's a whole nother story right there

Scott Benner 44:12
find yourself at the end of the night going home with a lady much older than you

Pat 44:18
No, no never never good.

Scott Benner 44:21
Because it would be awkward if somebody like in the middle of something was like Patrick I think I know your mom. Yeah, no you don't I gotta go

Pat 44:31
that's that that was the age range of the bar for sure. Weren't you weren't too far off?

Scott Benner 44:38
That's what I was leaving from what you were saying. That's a That's amazing. I don't know what the hell we've been talking about for the last 40 minutes but I'm having a good time. So it's a good sign. What about a one sees now with the pump instability? Do you Where do you have the same highs and lows? And if not, how are you managing that?

Pat 44:56
Yes. So I am managing it a little better I do I still, I mean, like my first month or two, I mean, maybe even, you know, half a year and wearing the pump, I would still get pretty, pretty bad highs and lows, just because I was trying to figure out how the whole thing work. And so after, like, I don't know, after one time, I was just so pissed off with how the Sif, you have Medtronic worked. I called up one of the Medtronic reps and I was like, Hey, can I get a Can I get a you know, training on this, maybe I'm doing something wrong. So she took me through, you know, I think like an hour and a half training of it. And it really helped me just he just to the minute details that kind of, kind of help you with your blood sugar and everything like that. So it really helped me and now now I'm getting better at you know, I think I barely get over 250 if I get high, which is amazing. And then don't get low too much. But I do I work out like six days a week. So I do loads do happen to me quite a bit just because I am you know, doing a lot of work out. But I always have, you know, I always have all enjoys next to me.

Scott Benner 46:19
Well, since you found out you're safe, it's fine. Hey, can I can I propose something to you that this you had no idea that I was gonna say this and sort of, it's not something you're interested in, please just tell me to shut up. But there's a series within the podcast. And there. It's called diabetes pro tip. So I think there's about 20 or so episodes. And if I told you I think if you listen to them, you might never see a 250 blood sugar again in your life or get low while you're working out. Could I interest you in listening to them?

Pat 46:50
Of course. Of course I'm looking it up right now I got it on my Google right away.

Scott Benner 46:56
Could you look at how the young kids use the inner way right? So if you you go to Juicebox Podcast comm and click on diabetes pro tip at the top or actually diabetes pro tip comm will take you to it as well. So now these episodes are available in your podcast player, but you can see them here online and some people even choose to listen to them online, although just know if you're doing that you're probably old. And but there's nothing wrong with being old. I'm old. So so it starts at Episode 210. And they're not concurrent. So like it'll be like 210 11 to 12 and it'll jump to 217 but it'll take you through the ideas that that management wise get talked about on the podcast, it's not just me it's a friend of mine Jenny, she has a G she's coming up on her 33rd anniversary of type one, she's a CD she's a nutritionist, she's a runner, and she talks to people about management for a living. So I I will tell you that I think if you listen through those episodes, you achieve an A one C in the low sixes that will eventually get into the fives and you'll cut down on your highs and your lows.

Pat 48:10
I love it. Yeah, definitely listen to that.

Scott Benner 48:12
I mean, you know No, don't Don't thank me. I I'm interested like Don't thank me because then I want you to contact me back and tell me how. So? Yeah, because it because you seem like you're in the right place. So, Pat, you don't know this, you know, but I talked to a lot of people not just on the podcast, but separately and you can start to see that people fall into lanes. And you're right there. Like you're right there ready to like take a big leap with your diabetes like so I'll tell you that with my with my daughter's blood sugar's when you said like, you know, if I ever go over 250 that never happens. And that's amazing. And I agree with you coming from where you are. But I will tell you that when my daughter's blood sugar gets over about 160 that constitutes a pretty big mistake.

Pat 49:02
Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, if I'm if I'm going up like 180 Yeah, I'm already kind of getting nervous, but

Scott Benner 49:09
nobody we're being honest with saying 250 which I really appreciate because those are the real numbers. People like people need to hear that, you know, they need to understand that they're not the only one whose blood sugar does that and I'm not saying my daughter's never gets that high. Like we sometimes we you know, completely boot the pooch and stuff happens. So I'm just saying that if you listen through this, I think you're gonna find some easy to follow things that stop that from happening.

Unknown Speaker 49:34
I love it. Yeah.

Pat 49:37
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I was gonna say I joined when I moved to San Francisco, there's a diabetic, like a J. I don't think it's jdrf actually, but it's a diabetic group that meets on zoo. You know, every couple, like I think once a month, and we have a we have a Slack channel where people can ride And talk about you know what, what's been going on with their blood sugar's and if anyone has tips so I joined that and I do want to get more into it I think that I'm kind of on the outskirts of kind of, you know, reading more about it and everything like that so I definitely think stuff like this will for sure help.

Scott Benner 50:22
It's um it just it can't be undervalued that first of all talking to people is a huge thing because you don't feel alone first of all secondly you start hearing things that you don't you never heard before, you know, somebody will say something I think that's what the podcast I was like somebody says something, and it makes people think, Oh, I didn't realize that was possible, and you try it and then it works and you build off of it. And I think that's terrific that you found those people.

Pat 50:47
Yeah, and I mean, like, before I I went went into this group. I didn't I knew a couple of diabetics, but I didn't know a lot of them. And so seeing how serious some of these diabetics are in the group and like how much they you know, care for their health and well being like it really put put things into perspective as well because I didn't I you know, I wasn't talking to any diabetics who were like, you know, super on top of their stuff and, you know, talking about fats and proteins and ways to you know, like, if you're gonna eat this one day, how do you how can you help counteract it, stuff like that, where I've never really heard about that. So it was cool to kind of get a new, like a whole new perspective on how, how serious people take it and kind of put me into the mindset of like, Okay, I need to, I need to step my game up a little bit.

Scott Benner 51:44
Yeah, no, I, I think I can take for granted sometimes, because I'm so steeped in it, that, that this is something that everyone thinks about. But then I realize, you know, from listening to people, getting communications from people like this is exactly what you said, like most times, those things are never considered. And it it makes a huge difference just to understand how to stretch out a Bolus for a meal that has fat in it. Like I have an episode going up, that's just all about fat pretty soon. And I don't think that stuff that people talk about enough. And I don't know why I don't know if it's because overall, it's not well understood, or if it's, it seems confusing to people. So they don't want to just put it out there in a blanket way. And I think that like podcasts or even like what you're talking about, like social media connections, allow for longer, deeper conversations so that you can kind of get into the cracks. And, you know, hear the minutiae and and, you know, it's not just, it's not a paragraph of information in a pamphlet, like you can't, you can't explain any of this in a paragraph. So we need the conversation. Also, I just tried to connect with you on LinkedIn, because for some reason, I want to know how your life goes so

Pat 53:01
well, I hope we stay in touch too, because this is this is to fun. expected at six in the morning, I swear

Scott Benner 53:07
to God that you got up early. And this is amazing, because I am. But that is one of the indications to me that you see you're interesting in that somebody just said to me the other day, that they imagine that every person who's on the podcast is like kind of a super fan of the podcast. And I was like, No, that's that's not the case, but they couldn't believe me. And I want to ask you a little bit about that, as we're kind of finishing up here like so the podcast is not like a staple in your life. What made you want to come on in and share the conversation?

Pat 53:42
I mean, I was I kind of was getting into podcasts, you know, a year or two ago. And I was like, I wonder, I wonder if there are, you know, diabetic podcast. People really talk about it. And so I actually kind of just looked up diabetes on Spotify. And you know, the Juicebox Podcast popped up and I listened to a couple episodes and I was like, Oh, this is amazing. And I didn't even know that you like would let someone like me on do it. I had no I didn't know how it worked or anything. So I just kind of like oh maybe I'll just hit him up and see if he's interested. I you know, I didn't expect anything out of it, honestly. So it's pretty, pretty cool how it worked out.

Scott Benner 54:28
It's like a date some of the emails are they feel like as close as I'm ever going to get to being on a dating site, because it feels like a four sentence pitch about like why you would want to pick me and I'm always amused by that but what did you mean when you said somebody like me? Like when you listen to other people did you think they were like special super diabetics?

Pat 54:49
Yeah, I special super diabetics. They all every diabetic is a special super diabetic, but I probably I just They were kind of involved in the community and involved in you know, speaking about diabetes and I, because I, I've never been on the inside of the diabetic community life. I did intern for jdrf one year and that was pretty, pretty fun to do. But other than that, I you know, kind of just like, oh, maybe I'll just shoot my shot and see if I can talk about diabetes a little. Let me

Scott Benner 55:25
let me give you our I will pull the curtain back a tiny bit here. Hopefully other people doing the same thing will not know it doesn't matter. But what I was gonna say is that I think there are people like who are in that center of that community that are that are amazing people. Like I'm definitely not saying that. But what I think is that when it becomes their whole life, they become a little practice. And it's so I don't ever talk to any of those people. Because like you did you listen, you were involved in politics, like I don't want somebody popping on here hearing three key words and giving me a canned answer. Yeah, right. Because then that's not interesting and nobody gets anything out of it. And I think more comes from listening to people's struggles and understanding their path then would come from somebody just telling you like I'm super good at this and here's how I'm so good at it and then it turns out they never really have any details I don't mean like they never like you don't mean like you're somebody who's like oh I do great in the market but they never say buy this stock this stock and this stock they just they do great in the market you know or or you'll see people who are diabetes influencers will never mention what their a one c is.

Pat 56:43
Oh interesting. Looking into that

Scott Benner 56:46
notice so I saw some that you know, when I share my daughter's a one c it's not for bragging reasons, it's so that you can be reasonably comfortable that anything I said might be true. You know what I mean? Cuz if I was like, here's what I think you should do. You need to Pre-Bolus your meals, I go through a little thing. And then you say, Oh, that's that. That all sounds great. Scott what's Arden's Awan saying? Oh my god, it's 9.8 you might go. Well, wait a minute. Why am I listening to you again? Like so long? Yeah, like, I think you have to show the show your work, I guess. And at the same time, I think that that can be aspirational for people like I don't understand. A person who says, Hey, listen, if you're just running around yelling my a one cs 5.5, the rest of you can go to hell, that's bad. Okay, but if you're if you're saying, hey, look, I'm 5.5 here's how I got to it. I think you can get to it, too, even though you're not there right now. I find that to be hopeful. You don't mean like when? I don't know. Yeah, something I looked at somebody who knows how to do it.

Pat 57:50
Yeah. And I think even like me five years ago, seeing an influencer saying, hey, my agency's flat five, but not saying anything of how to do it. It kind of probably would have just made me be like, Okay, well, like, I don't care anymore. I want to go, you know, I'm gonna keep fighting this. Like, if I don't, if I don't understand how you're doing it, then I don't want to understand it myself.

Scott Benner 58:17
Just to look up and go, Oh, great. So you're gonna be healthy. And I don't get to be like, yeah, that's the vibe. Right? And so I you know, I'm all I think you'll see, like, if you try those protip episodes, I'd be surprised if you didn't really like them just based on this conversation. So no,

Pat 58:34
I definitely will. Yeah,

Scott Benner 58:35
I'm interested. I'm interested in what you do is you listen to them. You don't have to report back to me. It's not like school, and an A one C from now. Reach out and tell me if you're moving in a different direction.

Pat 58:48
Okay, I definitely will. That's fine. Yeah. Wait,

Scott Benner 58:51
I'm seriously I'm in. I'm interested. Don't let me down on this path. Just Sunday. Don't treat me like this old woman at the bar. Okay. Yeah. I know what you were doing.

Pat 59:02
I'll send you a beer. While you're at it. You're waiting? Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:08
This is probably how you make friends. You just send a beer down the bar, right? And everybody's Yeah. So what are your um, I'm going to finish up here for you. I don't want to keep you too long. I imagine you have work. But what are your What are your long term goals here around diabetes? like where are you trying to? Like, what what do you imagine? Is uh, I guess my question would be, what do you imagine yourself to be when you're 30 years old? When you're thinking about maybe having a family like what Where do you want to be with your diabetes at that point?

Pat 59:43
Oh, I definitely just want to I want to be as healthy as possible, I think. I think that's kind of just my my main goal is to keep my body as healthy as possible to just keep me going as long as I can. I remember, you know, growing, you know, growing through this, like, you hear about diabetics going blind or, you know, toes getting cut off and all that. And so that that always kind of scared me a little bit. And so I'm like, I want to be as healthy as possible and be, you know, put, I hope to be playing basketball with my grandkids and my great grandkids one day. So that's kind of where I want to be. And that's, that's why I'm doing all this to make sure that it will, it will happen.

Scott Benner 1:00:33
That's excellent. Hey, can I ask you do? Did you experience any? Did women treat you differently? Because you're diabetes? Did that ever get in the way of your dating or anything?

Pat 1:00:44
No, I mean, I think that women were intrigued by it, if anything, so I don't think you'd ever it ever. I mean, obviously there, you know, there were problems with having low blood sugars that inopportune times, but I think a lot of women were intrigued by it. So it never, never was too big of a deal, but I can definitely see how it can. For other diabetics, it can definitely be kind of challenging. So I kind of catered it towards, you know, like, Hey, this is kind of interesting. And like, hey, yeah, have you ever seen someone get shot with a needle? It's pretty cool. You know, that type of stuff.

Scott Benner 1:01:24
That's like a seven year old with a Tonka truck. He's like, Look, I have this and you can play with it to suck people into your world. Well, you also sounds like you bumped into too good people who weren't judging you just like that.

Pat 1:01:36
Yes, definitely. I was very lucky. And for the people who did you know, I just kind of brushed it off, not a not a big deal to me. So I was definitely lucky with the people that that are in my life right now. And probably how they helped me as well.

Scott Benner 1:01:52
That's amazing. Good for you. Hey, listen. You sound like you're doing really well. Do you think of yourself as doing well?

Pat 1:01:59
Yeah, definitely. I think I think once I got the pump, and I think that I kind of just propelled me into a way better state for sure. So cool. Yeah. But the older I get the, you know, the more knowledge I'm getting, I I you know, just love it even more in love, love how I'm dealing with it, for sure. Listen, I

Scott Benner 1:02:19
it sounds to me, like you are on the upswing of a much bigger upswing. And you seriously like it feels like you in a fairly short amount of time, got through that period, figured it out that it's something you want to leave behind, you're on an incredible path. And you're, you're thoughtful about it, and you're interested in learning more. And I will tell you that everyone I've ever spoken to, I think the main ingredient that helps with this is just the desire to do it. That really ends up being one of the most important aspects because you need to find the tools needed to understand how to use them, but the desire to do it. And a good attitude is a is a lot of it. I just think that from my personal experience talking to so many people, so I think you've got that.

Pat 1:03:02
Oh, I love to hear it. Yeah, I mean, I think I think you're absolutely right. And I remember coming back from I studied abroad in Italy and I must have gained 20 pounds over there, you know, eating pasta, drinking wine all day, you know, so I gained 20 pounds, and I came back and I I just kind of got myself up off the couch. And I was like I need to work out every day I needed to do it. And so I started working out and that's kind of propelled me into the like, Okay, I need to do it. You know, like, I need to learn more about diabetes, I need to get healthier. And so that kind of sent me on the track of like, getting getting to where I'm at, for sure. It's

Scott Benner 1:03:45
amazing. Is there anything that I didn't say or ask that you were hoping to talk about?

Pat 1:03:51
No, I did. I really didn't know what we were going to be talking about. I just can't I was like, let's do it.

Scott Benner 1:03:59
Do it didn't feel like it went okay for you. Yeah. 100% Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:04:03
I loved it.

Scott Benner 1:04:03
I'm not I'm just kidding. But yeah, no, I appreciate it. I had a really good time talking to you. I somehow find myself hoping that my son's as together as you are when he's 26. So

Pat 1:04:16
and there'll be more together for sure.

Scott Benner 1:04:19
If I can keep him off the wine and pasta, maybe it'll be Yeah.

Pat 1:04:24
It'll be

Scott Benner 1:04:31
a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE Vogue glucagon, find out more about chivo cuyp open at GE Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. you spell that GVOKEGL Uc ag o n.com. forward slash juice box. Thanks also to Patrick for sharing his story and two touched by type one for supporting this episode of the Juicebox Podcast, head on over right now to touch by type one.org. Find out more about touched by type one, and think about getting some tickets to the dancing for diabetes show.

Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.

#556 Diabetes Variables: Growth Hormone

Diabetes Variables: Growth Hormone

Scott and Jenny Smith, CDE share insights on type 1 diabetes care

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 556 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Something kind of weird happened, and I'm going to share it with you. So this is a diabetes variables episode. It's about growth spurts. But it may or may not surprise you to know that Jenny and I record a number of variables in a sitting. So I have a little list. I say, hey, Jenny, next up, I'd like to talk about growth spurts, then we talk about it, we don't pre plan we just have a free flowing conversation. Now to prove that, I'm going to share something a little embarrassing with you, Jenny, and I only record about once a month. There's pretty big gaps of time in between when we see each other normally. So we did growth spurts, and I forgot to cross it off my list. So they ended up on my list again for the following month. Neither of us remembered that. And we ended up doing and we ended up doing this variable twice. And I'm going to leave both versions in here for you. So you can see the differences right in between the conversations and they did go differently. It's very, very interesting. I mean for me, and I hope for you as well.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. g vo hypo Penn. Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. Let's not forget to Jenny is just a person who comes on the show, but she has a real job she works at integrated diabetes comm if you want Jenny can help you with your diabetes. That's not an ad. It's just me saying I love Jenny and I want to help her. Okay, get ready, you're going to hear the same variable twice. Alright, I record I hit record. Hey, Jenny, I want to talk about a variable today. growth spurts. And I think that I think that probably is going to lead into hormones too. And puberty. So I feel like they may go together. Am I right about that? Or no?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:24
You say because they all have to do with growth hormone and changes in the body? And yes,

Scott Benner 2:31
okay. So the reason it comes up as a variable in my mind, and this is from me, being able to watch people interact online, is that, you know, children get diabetes at all ages, obviously. But the younger ones, eventually their parents kind of get into a rhythm and things are just like, working right? And then all of a sudden they see on their graph at a certain time of the night. This just never ending upward trend of blood sugars. And, and that's why I think it merits its own variables episode. Yeah, absolutely. Because it comes out of nowhere and they don't know what to make of it. Is there an age? There's not right, like it could happen to you. I mean, I'm sure there's an age range, but when to like let's start with boys, when the boys start hitting puberty.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:25
Honestly, I mean, the range I would honestly say is probably somewhere between 10 on the very early age range, 12 ish, 13 ish most likely, all the way through potentially like that 18 to 20 because boys can grow longer, give or take boys can grow for a longer period of time than girls. Girls typically grow visibly like in height especially girls typically grow up until about the age of 1617 ish. Boys grow a little bit longer than that. So I would say anywhere between 10 to 20 as a very wide range and probably more like 12 to 18 out of on a shorter range

Scott Benner 4:16
for boys the Google magic here tells me that people don't know either because they're people Google you know can a 12 year old can an 11 year old can a 10 year old boy hit puberty and so I thought well why don't I just like go over some signs of puberty. That way you don't have to worry about the age so much but then what came up is hilarious so laughing instead of first signs of puberty and boys. This is a great this is such a strange sentence the first sign of puberty in boys is usually that their testicles get bigger and the scrotum begins to thin and red. So I don't know how you're gonna check on that.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:51
Right exactly unless you've got you know a very like comfortable like you know family I don't know and or you take Do the doctor and you say I'm not comfortable looking at this, could you please check this out for my child?

Scott Benner 5:04
Right? Because I was hoping for like, you know, shoulders brought in or just look at that you could just kind of look at you know,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:12
yeah. And I don't know I mean for boys, another sign is often times that voice change starts right? Like some crappy voice, some deepening of the voice from the, from the kid to sounding voice which, you know, my little guys still obviously have they're only four and a half an eight and a half. So they still obviously have that like little kid. But that's another typical for boys. I mean, some that occur in both boys and girls are obviously like, some underarm hair and like hairier legs and that kind of thing.

Scott Benner 5:53
I will say for moms, I think you can, the way your son smells starts to change you like that's it. That's a good one to look for

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:01
when they start to need deodorant. Right? You're exactly right. When they start to need deodorant. They have a definitive funk after they're done playing an hour of soccer, you know?

Scott Benner 6:13
Yes, yeah, yeah, I don't I want to be clear, I don't think you should like tell your kid Hey, if you're when your testicles start getting bigger, and you're screwed them, what does it say? begins to thin and red. Yeah, I don't think that's a good way to go. But so but when you see that the indication to you around diabetes should be there are going to be more growth hormone now. And so we're going to probably have to meet that with insulin. But does the Why does that impact? Why is that impact so obvious overnight to so many people? Is it because that's when growth really happens? What do you think it can be that some people's overnight basil rates or a week or two, like that just popped into my head?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:53
Well, I know that you know, we actually have, Gary actually has in his thinkbook a really nice chart that actually defines sort of insulin needs through the life cycle. And it goes from like infants, kids teens, into like adulthood, and then older age people. And what we actually find is that kids and teens have the highest insulin needs overall, you know, if you're completely opposite, it doesn't opposite of this, it doesn't necessarily mean anything's wrong with you, it's just the majority of kids and teens will have a much heavier base basil need overnight. And it often then sort of dips down a bit kind of comes through the course of the day, whereas adults, and definitely older adults, often have a lower bass diesel overnight. And then it kind of nudges up a little bit more at certain times of the day, especially that morning time period, right? hormones in the teen years, I think are they're heavier in terms of visible insulin need. Because once you get to the point of being 10 plus years old, you're most likely if you've been living with type one for a number of years already, you're most likely already at a point of more insulin than you were as a little kid. And so then the hormone impact on top of a rate that's let's say, already, like one unit in our teens might go up to 1.4 or 1.8 2.1. I mean, the amount of extra insulin needed from a hormone standpoint, during that whole team growth cycle looks really heavy, because your base often starts heavier already. Whereas where your little kid, you might have a basil of point one, five, and it goes up to like point three. And yeah, that's, I mean, that's a big shift. But it's not as dramatic as like, the bigger doses, right?

Scott Benner 8:55
Yeah, it's why that I know, I've said a couple of times, and I hope it doesn't seem pejorative, but you know, when you're managing a seven year old really well, that gets almost like diabetes training wheels, a little bit like yours, there's still a lot more coming in, you need to know that, that it's on its way but I think more importantly, when you see it, you need to be able to react to it and just understand it, you know, what happens that people see and they're like, oh, something magical is happening, and I don't know what to do and you know, like, and they get all flustered, instead of just saying, well, there's a need here for more insulin, let's just meet it. Yes, and I do understand that. The can the concern can be it's the first time you've seen it. If I come at this very aggressively, what happens if I'm wrong and I'm too aggressive then on the other end, we see some sort of a drop. But I mean, after you notice these things over and over, and again, you have to you have to get ahead of them. Right? You know, and

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:47
they will happen or and it to say over and over again is really important because they will happen over and over again. And again. If you've had a child who's had or a teen who's had diabetes since they were younger, you've already seen As a more sick, let's call it nature to hormone shifts, growth cycles and this you get to a point of insulin need and then it shifts again. And then it shifts again and then it shifts again. Well, kids grow and they keep growing.

Scott Benner 10:16
It's waves to its waves. And it doesn't necessarily have to happen when you think like there was a time for a long time that Arden was the smallest girl around like she's five one she weighed 70 pounds, like, you know, that kind of thing. And our I mean, I think Arden's done growing now but aren't five seven, you know, she's one of the tallest girls in the town we live in. I mean, so much so that if she meets people like guys that used to coach her softball team when she was little she can they don't even know it's her. You know, like she's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:50
okay she is taller compared to her little petite. Yes, pretty self.

Scott Benner 10:55
And when I go back and look, sometimes it was weight. Sometimes it was height sometimes she started maturing at one point she was rather curvy. She is not anymore like it. It went through a lot of different shifts. Yeah, seasons. By the way, Jenny, signs of puberty for girls. Why do they use words that make me want to giggle breast buds? buds, okay, right? pubic hair, which they listed for the boys. But after I said, fitting and reading, I didn't. armpit armpit hair for girls again, acne could be an indicator. And then a higher growth rate. I guess when girls start growing tall, they they keep going. Right? And then what I mentioned earlier, I said kind of curvy, but hips thighs, you start getting Yep, you start getting fat and all the lady places. Yeah, like not fat, like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:50
well, you just I guess another term is like you fill out really, you know, you go from really a kid based, very, like, I call them like square bodies, kids have like, really no hippie, kind of there's they just started like, straight down from like armpit all the way down their legs, they're just this like rectangular box. And I've got like good visibility of it. Like, with my third grader, he and his friends have like, grown considerably over the course of the summer. Like just seeing them now in these first couple of weeks of school, the differences in the heights of kids and whatnot, but they all have boys and girls, they all have this straight, like rectangular box shaped like part of their body. And then once puberty hits, that changes and it's especially visible for girls as you know, breast development kind of comes into the picture. And hips kind of change and shift and wait, especially for girls who may not have the best like nutrition plans or the you know, maybe activity and the best types of foods, they can tend to during that puberty time game more than they may actually need to because the hormone shift is causing a lot of shifts in hunger and you know, the appetite and the way that their body is sort of maneuvering change.

Scott Benner 13:18
Let's I want to add a couple things here and we'll stop but my son's like 21 and a half now and he texted me the other night. Hey, I just I just squatted 375 pounds. I'm like really? Please don't hurt. Wow. Yeah. And and now I realize that even just a handful of years ago, even though he was a strong athletic kid, I still could have manhandled him if I needed to do you know, like, not that that was our situation. But if if it went down to me, I think I could have taken care of it. And, and now, I'm pretty sure that if that happened, he would just grab me by my face, and he could just like throw me out of the way if you wanted to. Yes. And so point is don't be worried. Yeah, well, he's still maturing. Like I know that's a weird thought. But he looks it was this spring we went out on the baseball field for the first time and I said this is the first time I feel like I'm having a catch with a man I actually told this was the very first time I've had that feeling. And he was a college athlete prior to that, right you know, and so but that was the first time he looked at me and his shoulders were bigger and his chest was broader. And you know, I thought oh, this is I'm out here with another guy get on it. It's not a kid anymore.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:31
Well, that's why I said you know, guys can tend to grow and some of that growth is more like I said about like, the early teen girl like filling out. Guys, especially if they're really paying attention or they're into a specific sport or something. They tend to plus 18 years, they get that fill out, their shoulders brought in a little bit more their body actually kind of gets more to the point of like, like visible structured

Scott Benner 15:00
He talks about weird ways that I think my he goes, I think my frame can handle about 205 pounds. Like he's like 190. Now when he was trying to gain weight, but it's interesting the way he, like, you're right, like athletes think about it in a different way I do. I'm always like, I wonder how much thinner I can get. I would like to not look like you know, I don't want to have like fill out and but my fill out is different because I'm 50. And let's, let's just add at the end that a birth control pills. Yep, can can mimic all of this right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:33
They can I mean, and again, most most girls are not really started on birth control until there's a visible issue in terms of their normal menstrual cycle during the teen years. Right. And or you think that there's definitely a purposeful reason for birth control, right. But most often in the teen years, it's because the cycles are very irregular, or very heavy, or very, very painful, almost kind of like a debilitating type of you know, pain. So then birth controls bring in another level of like hormone, but many times with birth control for the women who things have not been as regular, the regularity that's brought in because of them can actually make blood sugar control a little bit easier in terms of the cycle. Some birth controls can contribute to some weight gain, and some of the newer ones on the market and or the adjustments to the doses and whatnot for for what women need. The can be just kind of stabilizing, they won't necessarily cause gain or loss. Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:42
So Arden had to do it for reasons that you just mentioned, irregularity having, like etc. and took us a couple times I'm still not sure we found the right one to be honest. So yeah, like I mentioned to you before we recorded like she has like a she's not she's hungry, but she can't like imagine what food tastes sounds good to her. She also is having trouble stomaching meat. And there's part of me that wonders if it is maybe a birth control pill? That's because does it mimic you being pregnant in some way to and doesn't sometimes like that happened with foods? I mean, I could be

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:17
wrong during pregnancy? Yes, during use of birth control, it essentially continues to cycle you through without oscillation. So there is no potential for pregnancy because it just shuts off the ability to obviouly right. I mean, that's a general statement.

Scott Benner 17:34
But my question was that does. Is there anything about taking the hormones that gives you similar situations to like, when you have cravings when you're pregnant? Or maybe I'm just maybe that's not right. I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:45
don't believe so. I mean, not from anything that I've seen with the women that I work with, nor that I've necessarily read about in terms of cravings, if anything, because it's stabilizing hormones, or should be more to keep a regularity to the cycle. Usually, most women have the same types of cravings the couple days before their period that they would have even if they weren't on birth control, like the salty sweet kind of like could eat anything and then maybe the rest of the time, their appetite is just kind of back to normal.

Scott Benner 18:22
Yeah, so it's interesting. I've experienced it now twice in my life once dating and once father and the child. It's a different feeling like in both situations, but it's really interesting you ladies are very, very interesting people. Okay, yes, we are like I could, I could spend the rest of a couple of lifetimes probably not understand what it is I'm looking at still.

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Jennifer Smith, CDE 20:52
I mean, for the most part, yeah, a lot of children's growth in the hormones that impact growth happen into the after bedtime time period. And while kids overall insulin needs are higher overnight, in general, that's pretty typical. So even on the nights that kids aren't in a growth phase, you know, with increase in hormones, most kids still have a rise in blood sugar after they go to bed. But it's not as profound of an increase as during a growth phase. And there are other like, cues, you know, you said, well, has your child gained weight, are they a little bit taller, a cue to me of just my own kids who don't have diabetes, but I know when they're going through growth, because it's visible in what they eat. And their sleep or their like fatigue level. So both of my kids will eat and eat and eat. I mean, kids eat right, but they will eat more, like they will get asked for like to burn breakfasts, they're kind of like habits when they're growing. It's like at first breakfast, second breakfast. First one, you know. And other times, like my little guy, right now, he's definitely in like, a stable time period. Because his breakfast I have to, like, urge him finishable finish your breakfast, you know, whereas usually it's down in like, four minutes, it's gone. You know, so that's something visually to pay attention to, too, because if you're going through that, you can say, Okay, I'm going to expect an increase in need.

Scott Benner 22:41
My son, when he was going through his real growth, time, you know, 12 years old, 13, like through there actually, boys are usually a little later, but his calves would get bigger, and then he would get taller. That's what happened every time. So it was just the craziest thing you'd watch his calves get bigger. And then we'd say a coal is gonna get taller soon. And then he would. And I funny that you noticed this cow. is a baseball players always insurance. He never Okay, he's never wearing pants. So it was just one of those things aren't in sleeps more. You know, when when her body is going through changes? I mean, but but I guess the it to bring it back to diabetes for a second. Its growth spurts is a weird thing. Because yes, yes, I just my tongue just came out of my mouth didn't go back in at the right time. Yes, I was like, Am I having a stroke is this but but yes, growth spurts cause your insulin needs to change. But it's a throwaway answer online when people don't know what to say. Like, what is this? Oh, it must be a growth spurt. Do you mean like, it's one of it's one of the diabetes. You know, I'm saying buddy. Like, I get that vibe. And I think at least if people can see it, maybe then they won't write off other things as being a Grossberg if that makes right. You know what I mean? Yes.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 24:08
Well, and it also goes along with, as we know, experience, right? If you are newer in a diagnosis of diabetes with a child, there are things that you'll have to experience to be able to see what to do and what the impact for your child or teen is gonna look like. Right? And then you then you use that as you move forward. You use those experiences to kind of build on, but if you've been doing it a while, and it's always a throw your hands up in the air.

Scott Benner 24:41
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm probably gonna talk myself out of downloads here. But the truth is, if you came to me and said, Scott, I want to do a variables, episodes about diabetes. And you came on and you said, Hey, Scott, today's topic is puberty and hormones. What do you think? I'd say? Yeah, insulin needs changed. You should just Be flexible and change with it. But then I would say that in every episode that was sort of, like the, in my heart, and I think at the core of what makes the podcast valuable for people is, I don't really care why your blood sugars are doing what they're doing. Just meet the need with insulin and move on is But still, when you're in the moment, it is. Listen, it's not only necessary, it would be difficult to try not to diagnose things. And so I love these valuable episodes. I'm being a little facetious. I love them because it gives people something to go Oh, like, maybe they're growing. Like, I don't know, a ton of technical stuff here, like, your kid might grow and need more insulin. Give them more insulin, don't stare at 220s overnight for a week and go I don't know what's going on. Because, you know, because maybe it's a Grossberg give them more insulin but right maybe an aliens flying in their room and giving them sugar to if that's give them more insulin, like care why

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:00
it's happening. Probably bigger problems there then just

Scott Benner 26:03
better window locks at the very least. So that's the kind of overnight like, while your body's making it, blah, blah, blah, like, right, like you're, it's giving you things you're building. But don't overlook the idea that as the body gets bigger, if you're being medicated with something, you're going to need more there's a reason your doctor asks you how much you weigh. When you when you go, I remember having a surgery one time. And Jenny, this is uh, not exactly a humble brag, but I don't look my weight to most people. And so I go into get a surgery. And you know, they get they give me the medication, and they come back in the room, the pre op room, and they're like, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, I'm great. What's up, like, you should be half asleep by now already. And I was like, feel good. And then nurse picks up the chart looks, looks, looks, looks looks, how much do you weigh? And I told her, and she goes, Oh, oh, the doctor thought you weighed much less. And then

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:59
they didn't check your weight before you show

Scott Benner 27:03
her Am I is this gonna go Okay, you know, but the part I took from it was that because of my body weight, I needed more medication. And then the same thing happens here. If your body weight goes up, you're probably going to need more insulin and, or right maybe, but it's worth looking into it because I've talked about here before, but it beat us in the butt before when Arden we finally got Arden's thyroid medication straightened out. And then she got bigger. And suddenly she's having these terrible symptoms. And our brain didn't say thyroid, because we thought we fixed thyroid already, right? So then we're taking her to heart specialists, when it turns out what she needed was like 15 more micrograms of terrorists, or something, you know what I mean? Like, so please look at that. Growth and growth spurts.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:52
Well, and I think the big thing too, that you kind of touched on. But more specifically, when kids grow, they don't, they always up grow, they don't down grow. If your child is growing, you will need more insulin and likely more insulin in that time period of growth, be it two or three days be at five days. Usually growth phases are not extensive, right in terms of like a month long amount of increase. But you will also find because of the growth, your baseline insulin is not where you're going to land back to, after the larger need for growth, you'll usually find like a middle ground between the low need the high need for growth, and now you're settled in after the growth. That's kind of where you're gonna aim to get to.

Scott Benner 28:46
So there's a spot where your basil is at where even your meal needs your correction factors. And then during the growth, they're going to increase. Yes, but they may drift back down. Lower from where the growth is happening, but not all the way back down to where you began. Correct. Excellent. Cool. Thank you.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 29:06
Yes.

Scott Benner 29:12
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. g Vogue glucagon, find out more about chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL Uc ag o n.com. forward slash juice box. Let me do a little round up here at the end of the week. dexcom.com forward slash juice box omnipod.com forward slash juice box Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box touched by type one.org. Trial net.org. forward slash juice box. Those are the sponsors hit the link support the show I hope you enjoyed that kind of little look behind the curtain. It's never happened to me before. And when I realized that it happened, I thought, wow, this is super interesting. And I first I thought, I'll just delete one of them. And I'll give them the other one. And then I listened through both. And I thought, these are fundamentally different conversations. And such a good indication that Jenny and I really do sit down and have off the top of our head conversations about stuff like this. And I think it's interesting to see how the conversation can be drawn in different directions, just by somebody asking a question, or having a thought one day that they didn't have the next. That was really cool. And it gave me an idea. So in 2022, Jenny and I are going to go back privately, separate of each other, and listen to a diabetes pro tip episode. And then we're going to come together the next day. And we're going to record an update to the diabetes pro tip. And we'll do that all through the year in 2022. How cool is that? Right? I think that's gonna be really interesting and fun. And I think valuable. I really think we might look back at ourselves from a couple of years ago and say, Oh, I would have I should have said this here or since then I've learned this And now I'd like to expound a little bit. Anyway, that's a little teaser. That's gonna be a long while from now, but it's something to look forward to. Alright guys, seriously, thanks so much for listening. I love making this podcast. I'll be back soon.