#475 Turn Adversity into Advantage
Chris Ruden has type 1 diabetes and a new book
Former guest (episode 201) Chris Ruden is back on the show to talk about stuff with Scott. Chris’s new book, “The Upper Hand: Leveraging limitations to turn adversity into advantage” is on sale now.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 475 of the Juicebox Podcast.
Today, my guest is Chris Rutan. Chris is a two time guests as he was also with me back on episode 201. Now if you don't know Chris, he's got a really interesting story. Chris has a congenital birth defect that left him with two fingers on his left hand and a shorter left arm. He also has type one diabetes. Today we're going to talk about a number of different topics, Chief of which is turning adversity into advantage. Please remember, as you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. And if you're interested in finding Chris's new book, the upper hand leveraging limitations to turn adversity into advantage. It's available right now on amazon.com.
This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, please head over to Dexcom comm forward slash juice box to learn more about the G six and get started. You can find out if you're eligible for a free no obligation 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash tubeless insulin pump at Omni pod comm forward slash juice box there are links in the show notes of the podcast player you're listening in right now. Or if you're not listening in a podcast player, please tell me you are they are free. And it's so easy. Anyway, if you're not, these links are also available at Juicebox podcast.com.
Chris Ruden 2:20
I think when people hear me say that I spend time editing the show, they think content. And the truth is these are freeform conversations. I almost there's no cuts. Yeah, that's the thing. It's It's literally wavelengths and like understanding how to make the sound better. And that that I am so impressed by the fact that you do that yourself is very impressive. Oh, well, I'm just cheap. That's all. I understand that I definitely understand that I would rather pay personally. But also now I'm to the point where like, Damn, I want to learn, you know, like, I want to understand this stuff. Well, even like some people tongue click while they're thinking they breathe heavy at different places. You know, sometimes plosives in depending on people's microphones like trying to control plosives I'm sure is a nightmare for you with the lack of standardization and microphones that people use for your show. There's, um, there's a person that comes on and hurt themselves and said Did I do okay, it sounded really great. And I didn't have the heart to tell them like it took me had to edit it so much. It took me 45 minutes to take out all the noises you make. Ah, I know. I know one guy he does his podcast. He's like, kind of like way crazy level with it. But he's such a control freak. He sends people a specific microphone and has them agree to send it back. Like it's crazy stuff. Oh, trust me, if I if I thought I could do that if I wasn't recording so much. If I was just doing, you record a lot of really good content and you put out volume with good content. So that's, again, impressive. Not trying to toot your horn. But to be able to do that level of volume would be very tough. That's where people microphone. Yeah, but trust me if it was once a month. Oh, for sure. Because it makes it so much easier. Like hey, this is where I need you to put the mic. This is just plug a USB mic in and like, talk into it and don't say the word or like 15,000 times please. But they will. They will or they will like oh, I don't really know what I'm gonna say. So I'm gonna fill this with words. I'm just gonna, like and a
Scott Benner 4:13
while we're talking. I there are some people that I'm recording that I can visually start to learn what, um, looks like coming out of their mouth.
Chris Ruden 4:22
So I have a really bad habit of any speaker that I coach. I tell them, I count how many times you say like and are your filler words. And it's an addiction. It's literally like an obsessive compulsive thing where I will tally mark, how many times someone says these filler words and I find what their crutch word is? because for me it was you guys or I would always go to something like that. And now that I noticed that I'm like,
Scott Benner 4:48
Oh, well, here's something that people wouldn't know. I think conversationally, the person who's speaking when they're in monologues, they still need to know you're listening. So when they make points, I'll go right on. Okay, that's interesting. But then in editing, I take out a lot of me saying that.
Chris Ruden 5:05
But it's good because we don't have the physical representation right now for me to see your head nods or gestures. And we know communication is a lot of that. So getting those verbal responses that you're still listening, or you're engaged, I think is important. And there's a big difference between those. And between the filler words out of frustration or not being sure on what to say, you know, right, yeah, there's a difference between agreeing and your brain going, I don't know what to do next, I don't have
Unknown Speaker 5:30
time to fill whitespace on a paper with more things. That's what I see it as I'm most impressed. And
Chris Ruden 5:38
by people who can speak slower, and thoughtfully, and I've been endeavoring to slow down as I as I get it, that was my hardest thing in the beginning is to not let for one emotion, carry the conversation because you do get emotional. But if you let it control you, then the speed gets affected, the delivery gets affected, then by you know, the end means the value you're trying to give out gets affected. So speaking slower, pausing enough, even if it's awkwardly long to make sure you gather your thoughts. I'd rather someone paused longer to deliver what they really want to say, then rush to try and you know, maintain a speed that's not necessary. No one listens to a podcast for speed. They listened for content. Yep. That's a lot of stuff. I've learned doing this. And all that is, is exactly what you said, I've seen your stuff tremendously increased, like it was already good from the beginning, because you had a natural talent for it. But you didn't just rely on your talent. You took the raw talent that you had, and you refined it, and I watched it grow. And I watched the way you ask questions change the quality, obviously, that's just more of a skill. But I've really watched you pay attention to the way you talk. And it's, it's awesome. Well,
Scott Benner 6:47
you and I met pretty mccosh It's been years now. Right? We were in here probably four years ago in Ohio in like a lobby in a hotel. Right? Okay. And I can tell talking to you that you were going to, like make something out of the thing you were doing. It was just pretty obvious. Like you were treating it like a, like a serious business.
Unknown Speaker 7:07
Yeah, I didn't want it to be a hobby. I didn't want to be a hobby speaker, I knew that I wanted to be a speaker as a career where most people just speak to do something else, you know, for me, that's what I wanted to do.
Scott Benner 7:18
That's funny, you say that because I, I believe that there are people who see me go do my speaking things and think, oh, he's doing that to propel the podcast, it has nothing, it doesn't really help the podcast that much like I do it because I think it's a nice thing to do.
Chris Ruden 7:32
And that's and there are many speakers that do like for you, it's all value based, for me extremely value based. And it's something I genuinely want my career to be right. You've built this podcast as a value based system that is also a career. So what the podcast is to you speaking full time is to me, but it doesn't mean I won't podcast and you won't speak you know, that's 100% It's so nice to talk to somebody who understands the the backroom ins and outs of this stuff. Because I am by myself, often just with these thoughts in my head, I go insane. You know, there's not many people that kind of understand the intricacies or the struggles that it takes to build something like this. And when someone asks, like, Oh, I want to do just what you're doing, I'm like, we'll be prepared for years of frustration, you know, where to just find out, you're bad at it. And that's Yeah, you might suck at it. You know, for me, I know, I'm not the best podcast, I released like a mini series podcast for my book. And for me, it's just talking through the chapters, but I know where my skill lies. And it's in raw, authentic conversations, especially in front of people. But now that we're in the virtual world, we have to adapt. But I will always respect the people that are amazingly good at it, like you people who are prominent podcasters, or even prominent speakers. We all have things to learn, you know, but I think as long as you're truly enjoying what you're doing, you're giving value and you're helping people, you know, you don't always have to be the Tony Robbins or the world's best podcaster to continue to do what you do. Yeah.
Scott Benner 8:55
But I tell you, Chris, you make me, you make me remember that I could easily do this every day, and be very happy about it. If there was a world where I didn't do the editing, and all the processing and the stuff that you guys don't see to make the audio pop into your earbuds. I could sit down and have one of these conversations every day. And I believe they're not just helping the people who are listening. I believe they're entertaining. And I think they're moving up my understanding of life, and diabetes, and not necessarily just life with diabetes.
Chris Ruden 9:28
What I what I like about you is that you seem very similar to me in the sense of to help yourself, you have to help other people. And almost like you teach best what you need to learn most when you do these things. I'm sure a lot of people like wow, you're given such good content. But for you, you probably take so much from this. Yeah, you probably hear these conversations and engage these conversations. And when you're done you're like, Dan, that was like that was that was awesome. You know, and I'm sure it helps you with your family with your kid. Just reframing your perspective. You're constantly hearing perspectives that help You whether you know it consciously or subconsciously, to just be a better person and live a better quality of life. Oh, I know. And yeah, that's that for me, that keeps me going. Because every single talk I do, I'm like, now I have to hold myself to that higher standard, I have to hold myself to that higher regard, and be that person because I want to be that person. And I want to help those people that truly took something from what I just did. jover say something a new way. And in the back of your brain go, that was better. Okay. Yes. Like you literally you review. Even in conversations like this, you'll say something like, Man that that came out a lot differently. And I really liked that. Yeah, I like how I framed that. When did I think, you know, when did that come through, or someone else will say something. And that will immediately cue me to like, write a note in my phone like, oh, that that the way I was framing it, there is a little different. But I like this, you know,
Scott Benner 10:54
I've gotten busy enough, where I can't just, I can't always send somebody a thoughtful note, if I don't want them on the podcast, if they reach out, and I'm like, I don't want to do this thing. You know, sometimes I'll say no, thank you, or it doesn't fit or something like that. But there are some people I want to say to them. Listen, you reached out,
Chris Ruden 11:11
I checked into you, you are doing this too much. Like you're whoring around going everywhere you can and you're saying the exact same thing. That's the difference is people who want content, not from a quality, but from a quantity perspective, they think that if they're more places, that more will help them you can't Polish a turd. That's what I said, you know, you can't Polish a turd. If you haven't focused on your value in the quality you're putting out. doing more won't help. Yeah, more of something B is not better. It reminds me of why I think the the diabetes content here works well is because everything gets said it's not the first 90% of the statement. And then the 10% it's not fun to talk about our people don't like to hear you don't say out loud. Meaning that
Scott Benner 11:59
people have to understand that just because it's easy to put content online. Now, if it's audio or video or whatever, like everybody can buy a camera or you know, use their phone or whatever, it doesn't mean that you'll be the content that you'll create. Not even that you're not good at it, it might not resonate with people. And that's not something you can fix.
Chris Ruden 12:22
No. And that's I noticed that with certain content, I'm constantly testing out new theories or applications or methods of delivery. I did one the other day, like my quotes that I post do really well they get tons of shares. And people that constantly messaged me about them. I tried on like, Oh, I'd love to do like a video background, maybe make it a little bit more cinematic. And it fell flat on its face. Yeah, you know, and I was like, okay, that didn't really work, I have an option, I can test it again and see if maybe the quote itself didn't do as well. Or I can scrap that and move forward. People take content that doesn't do well personally. And people take content that does do well personally. And they think both ways. They're just amazing. When at the end of the day, you're giving value. And if that's what you're focused on, you're good. But if you're focused on that ego centric type, I'm great or I suck, you're always going to be chasing something that you're not really doing. You know, well, there's there's this thing that people listening would know, but episodes that are with children or older people don't do as well. And I still do them with as much frequency. I don't be that's part of your brand. You know, that's what you value in it just because more people might not value it on average doesn't mean some people do you know, that I respect that you still do that. And you're not just cloud chasing or chasing engagement. And I did that for a long time. And I can tell you, it sucks.
Scott Benner 13:46
Yeah. And it works. It'll work for a while. But the one thing that I'm always impressed about about you, or if you were to ask me, one of the things that I'm proud of myself is longevity, like the the growth is great. I love that the podcast is growing. That's amazing. But the fact that I can keep doing it, that's a big deal to me, because you will open up Instagram or you know, something like that and see a person is as popular as you can imagine. And then 12 months later, like I defined you, I defy you to find them there. Oh,
Chris Ruden 14:19
absolutely. People come in waves. Because when it's good, they invest everything. But the second it dips. They're out. Yeah. You know, they didn't have that resilience from the beginning to understand that they again, like I said, taking success or failure personally. People take success and they're like, oh, man, I'm definitely going to keep going. This is amazing. We'll get all this validation, then it drops and they're like, wow, I suck. You know, their entire value system is based on engagement. And when you have that external validation as a guiding principle. At the end of the day, if your viewership dropped, you'd still put out content because he's no as valuable. And if your viewership raised you'd still put out Because you know your viewership is valuable. And so when you're based on something that is not a variable, you'll always be constant. So early on in this, when I got my first advertiser in a meeting, they said, What's your business model? And I said, I'm going to help people. And they were like, and and I was like, well, then I imagine they'll feel helped and tell somebody else about it. That's it. That's it.
Scott Benner 15:28
I don't have a model beyond that. Yeah, that's it, I'm gonna, I'm going to help people. And I'm going to do it in a way that's entertaining. And that gets perplex Lux, you're going to talk about diabetes in an entertaining way. And I said, Well, not entertaining, like juggling balls of fire. But in a way that doesn't feel like medicine. I was like, we have to get away from how people talk about diabetes, it's, it's the worst. It's so clinical, and full of jargon. Nobody wants to have that conversation, or that conversation ends up feeling unknowable. Like, I don't understand some of the words you said or the idea.
Unknown Speaker 16:05
It becomes it becomes a peer reviewed lecture at for certain points, or some people want to demonstrate their knowledge so much. So I promise you that when I start talking about glute for translocation, I lost so many people. But when I talk about the ups and downs and how it's a minute by minute condition, they're like, hell yeah, relatability. You know,
Scott Benner 16:24
if people want to know one of the difficult decisions I've made making the podcast, it was actually using the words glycemic load and glycemic index and tone, I'm
Unknown Speaker 16:32
sure we're gonna have that. And immediately it rubs people in a way that like, I'm not ready for this conversation, maybe I'm not smart enough is it puts doubt in people's minds, and it's overwhelm, people are coming here to not be overwhelmed. The last thing they want to do is be overwhelmed with information that they already feel like is above their head.
Scott Benner 16:49
Yep. And if so, if you're listening, and you've been listening for a while, and you've especially if you've listened in order, I moved you towards it very slowly. I bring it up in conversations for a split second, I'd say how important it is, then let it go. I would build in your mind the glycemic load and glycemic index sounds boring, but it's really important. And I would do that for I hate to say this, that I feel this well thought out. But I did it for a year before I ever said the words out loud in its own episode.
Unknown Speaker 17:18
But that's that's called proper framing, and you didn't rush it, and most people will try and replace consistency with intensity. Yeah, you were consistently building that that space to accept the terminology and the concept, you know, without rushing the intensity of like, you got to understand glycemic index this is, you know, the second people feel forced on information that they're it seems overwhelming. They're gonna check out.
Scott Benner 17:43
Yeah, you and I talked about this a number of years ago, but privately, I think, but there was a moment when I saw people copying my content. Oh, yeah, I remember. And then I thought, well, this is good, because now I'm leading the discussion. And, and in a bigger way, because it must be I know, people are just like, well, this is the most popular podcast in the space. So I'll do what they're doing. And it got to the point where, if I put something up on Facebook, you know, which I don't take particularly. Not that I don't take it seriously, but Facebook's not my focus, right? Yeah. Then, hours later, other Facebook pages would post on the same topic.
Chris Ruden 18:21
Oh, I saw it. I remember when you said that. I was watching. I was like, wow, he's he's not you know, being dramatic, literally, is telling the truth that I'm watching it. I actually watched a few podcasts right now from time to time that use a very similar model to yours. And I'm like, either The world is full of coincidences Are you were leading by example, that's for sure. Well, and then it's hard. It's initially, it's a human reaction. It's angering you're like, Well think of your own thing. Like, yeah, like, I
Scott Benner 18:47
thought of this, think of the thing for yourself. And then I realized, like, that's not gonna happen, like, some people just want to get to the end. They hear I have an ad, they want an ad. But it but in my heart, I'm like, that's not gonna work that way. Because if it doesn't come from a genuine place of, I'm only doing this to help people in any good that comes from it after that is a bonus. If you're starting with I want to make money with this. I don't think you'll do well. And so
Unknown Speaker 19:15
I'm like, Why don't because that's not how you started. That's not how anyone successful started. I think people forget, though. I've mentored a few speakers, especially in the diabetes and like disability space. And they come to me like, Oh, I want to make money as a speaker. I'm like, Well, have you spoken? Like, no, I'm like, do you have a speech? No. What's your message? Oh, I went through a lot of stuff. I'm like, that's your story. What's your message? And I'm like, you want to hang out at the finish line without running the race. That's what you want. You know, you want to get paid for something you don't have and you don't understand that I spent a year and a half, doing over 3035, keynotes for free, which I would do it differently. Now if I look back, but I did that for free, to establish value, test the market, see if I can offer something that's worth something to people, not just financially But right emotionally and mentally, you know, and it tested that and most people don't even want to test anymore. They just want to go straight to the success part. And you can't have the success without the work. You know, you can't just want a better body without wanting to do the work. Yeah,
Scott Benner 20:14
you have to, in my mind, you offer proof. Like, I don't go to a company and say, Hey, would you like to buy an ad on my podcast? I don't have any downloads, like, you know, yeah,
Chris Ruden 20:23
like, I'm thinking of starting something, do you want to invest in my idea, but there's that whole, like, 10% idea and 90% execution concept. But yeah, that no one's gonna invest in an idea because I have an idea to make a seven wheeled car that only weighs five pounds. Great. Do you have any sort of insight on how to do that? No, no, but I'm gonna do it. Any funding? No. Do you have anything else other than an idea that took you two seconds to make, in fairness to one to one company? And I will always say this out loud on the pod bought an ad before there was anything to buy an add on? And that see that's that's a business move on them for them, they must have seen, or potentially saw a future investment, which is cool. Yeah, I had worked with them as a panel. I had written for them. Okay. Okay. So you I'd already established value, though. So you did something? Yeah. You know, I basically said to them, hey, the money you were thinking of giving me for writing this stuff? Could you just not make me write this stuff and give it to me for this? But see that you you did you put something into action, you weren't just idea you were execution from the start point will invest in people who execute you know, and that that's, that just furthers my point,
Scott Benner 21:31
it I think it's important to talk about, we never really, hopefully, people will hang on and listen to the diabetes stuff, too. But I am I, I never talked about it here enough. But with so many people who think that there's a world of business, like they look at their Instagram account and think that's a company. And if it isn't, it's a nice way to do something. If you have all of these other things going on, you don't just start an Instagram page, and tell me you're an entity, it it doesn't work that way. It doesn't,
Chris Ruden 22:02
you know, it doesn't work that way at all. And that's it. The goal, if your goal is to help people, any business comes from the point of solving other people's problems. That's what true businesses, any business has business and solving people's problems. If you were only solving your problem, whether it's financially, ego doesn't matter. You are your own business, you are your own employee and your own customer. And you can't expect to ever grow beyond what you're trying to service yourself. Because you're being selfish and you're servicing your needs. You're neglecting the community and you're using the community as a way to get to the finish line without enjoying or running the race and that that's not okay. Not only is it not okay, it's not going to produce and you're going to be upset because you set expectations that will never be fulfilled. Arden had a project in school the other week, and she had to interview me, what was the worst job I ever had the best job I've ever had.
Scott Benner 22:54
That's amazing. And I took me a while I had to, like I had a couple of really bad jobs. So I was sitting there quietly in the kitchen, like, Oh, that was bad. But it wasn't as bad as this. And I finally came up with the one and then told that little story for and she said, what's the best job and I said, Well, hands down, I got to be a stay at home dad for a really long time. And that that's an experience. I wouldn't trade for any of the other experiences that I've had. I said, but if you want to be more technical, like a thing I do that I do on a schedule, that in return, I get money for I said, it's the podcast. And I said, and because I never imagined I'd get to do something that I would enjoy that would genuinely help people. And there'd be an income from like, I thought you'd have to give up one of those things. Like I thought you could do something you enjoy that help people but it wouldn't pay very much. And not that I'm wealthy, you know, Chris, but I mean, it's enough that I can keep doing this thing, right? Or I thought you could have a job that paid a lot, but you'd hate it. Or you get a job that paid a lot that would hurt people like you know, like I dumped chemicals into our Lake, you know, for a living like I never thought you could get all three and I was like, this is all three, it sustains my family. I love it. It makes people's lives better. And as a bonus, I get involved in conversations I would not normally get involved in that elevate me, and you and everyone around us and my understanding of diabetes. So you know, for everybody listening. If you if you took me right now and took me back six years and introduced me to the guy who's been running a podcast for a year. I now could run circles around that guy talking about diabetes. And I was pretty good at it back then.
Chris Ruden 24:40
And it that's growth, you know that. And what I want people to understand is you don't have to be the best podcast or you don't have to have the number one podcast. You don't have to be an amazing speaker. You don't have to have done a TV show or have a disability or you don't have to have any of these drastic accomplishments that people might see as accomplishments. What you have to do is focus on serving the people in the community that you want to help. If you want to help other people and you find ways to maximize the skill that you have, and you're giving, you're coming from a giving perspective, instead of selling perspective, replace the word sell with help, and you'll always have business, you will always have maybe not wealthy, but wealthy in the sense of validation, fulfillment, you know, you're helping other people live better lives, there will always be a career in helping other people live better lives. Yeah, I think as long as I'm warm, and my kids can eat, the being happy part, as I get older, becomes more and more important. I actually talk about that a lot. We're probably the only society that focuses so much on happiness in the sense of like, constantly chasing happiness, happiness is everything happiness, happiness. No other society really does. You know, in the United States, we're the biggest consumer of self help books, but the largest amount of depression. It's It's so funny to me, you know, including podcasts, self help podcasts. So many people are so focused on happiness, that when they're not happy all the time, which is life, because life is not happy all the time. It's just life. We think that we should be happier, we think that we should have more, we're never, we're never satisfied, we don't have gratitude. So we're not happy, we're taught that happiness is everything. So we're always miserable. In the pursuit of happiness, which is why I talk about, I truly think the pursuit of happiness can be toxic. And the pursuit of growth is so much more important, because growth involves pain and pleasure, success and failure, struggle and strength and all these things, you know, but we're so focused on being the best all the time, but you can't be the best all the time. Otherwise, it's not called the best anymore. That's just normal. Yeah, people are obsessed with more, and never realize that. How can you want more from your life, when you don't even appreciate what you already have? It's the collection of stuff instead of the appreciation of what collection thinking you need, more. You, you've collected so many moments in your life up into this point, pain, everything, all wide range, dynamic range of moments, but we never look back or look at the moments we have currently. Because we're so focused on what we want to have more of, and what we don't have enough of, and it's that frame that keeps people miserable. That misery can be applied to diabetes, you know, we are sugar is 130. And we're like, you know, I should be 100 or sugar is 70, it should be 90, everything should be something else and never can just exist. We can't just exist and enjoy and and take part in what's currently going on. Because we always want something else. And at the end of the day, your life, you'll never have had anything. Because you spent your whole life wanting things you never got. Do you ever, ever meet somebody who gains weight consistently over their life, and every time they hit a new plateau, they look back and think oh, I was better. Like I was okay, where I wasn't, I wasn't happy with myself. They're always always because hindsight is 2020. And we usually only appreciate the things we used to have or wish we did, right? It's, for some reason, we've definitely shifted away from it with social media because of seeing people's highlight reels, but we are so obsessed with wanting different things, just wanting, just wanting, wanting, wanting, and never just having gratitude. I said in one of my talks, gratitude is the antidote for greed. And I didn't mean that with money. But greed for more greed for a better a different life. People get greedy with wanting to not be diabetic or greeting with want to be a better diabetic or greedy with wanting to be a social media diabetic or a podcaster. And you can do all those things. But you have to have a balance of I love where I'm at right now. I I have gratitude for where I am right now. And I also would like to grow, and I'm willing to do the work, those two things have to exist simultaneously. Or else you're always chasing something that you'll never have.
Scott Benner 29:16
You know, when you're watching those movies about the future, and you think, Oh, I hope I can live like that one day. So magical technology, so advanced and everything just seems better. Well, if we're just talking about the continuous glucose monitoring world, the world of CGM being able to measure the effect of insulin on your blood sugar and moreover, just the speed and direction that your blood sugar is moving in. If that's the future we're talking about, that future actually exists already that's here. So you know, if you're waiting for it, you don't have to, all you have to do is go to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. And there you can get started with the Dexcom g Six continuous glucose monitor. You'll make knowledge your superpower. Like, you know, in the movies were like, there's like a super person and they fly around. They're like, I'm very strong. I know everything. I'm fast. You could be those things around your blood sugar, strong and fast and confident by knowing what direction your blood sugar is moving in, and how quickly it's moving in that direction. Imagine right now, if you could pick up your phone and see that your daughter's blood sugar is 70. That is what I just did. In the time, it took me to say it. I know it. I didn't open the phone before. I just said, Imagine, if you could and while I was saying that I picked up my phone, I unlocked it. I opened up the Dexcom app, and saw that Arden's blood sugar was 70 is also stable. By the way, it is neither rising or falling at the moment. I see all of that with my Dexcom g six follow up. Oh, you didn't know about that either. Yeah, up to 10. People can follow someone who's wearing a Dexcom g six. So I'm following my wife is falling if we wanted, my son could follow her friends could follow her school nurse could follow anybody, anybody you give access to. And on top of that, you get to set alarms, right notifications that tell you hey, your blood sugar's fallen farther than you want it to or risen higher than you wanted it to. It can even tell you if you're rising or falling quickly. It's magical. It's futuristic, but it's not. It's today. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Click on the links in the show notes. type it into a browser. Get started with Dexcom g sex. While you're out there on the internet, doing good things for yourself making decisions that are going to help you be healthier and safer. You might want to look at the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. My daughter Arden has been wearing the Omni pod since she was four years old, she will turn 17 this summer. That is a long time, a long time that has been made easier, safer, friendlier, healthier, by the Omni pod Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. When you get there, you look around, you see that? You see what's up me like I get it. And then you do some clicking a little bit of typing. And before you know it, you're gonna have your answer. Am I eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash tubeless insulin pump? What did I just say? Free 30 days? That's right, it is possible that that could be you head over to find out now on the pod.com forward slash juice box. This is a no brainer. Free 30 days is a 12th of the year. That's a lot of time. 30 days, watch this right now. That was three seconds. Right? There are 60 seconds in a minute. 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 30 days in a month. That's a long time to get free insulin pumps on the pod comm Ford slash juice box go check it out.
So the first time that I saw what is now a common way people live is probably 30 years ago. And you might be too young to even know this or not be a football fan but already zero years old. Okay, Reggie White was a defensive end for the Philadelphia Eagles. I grew up in Philadelphia, he was the best defensive end in football for years. And free agency, which is now a very common thing in sports did not exist. It came into play. And when it came into play, Reggie moved from the Eagles to the Packers. And I think back then they paid him $9 million. Well, that was the first time that anyone had ever said out loud how much money a person made to play sports that I was ever aware of. And I watched a city of people who I believe would have given their own life for Reggie white, in a split second, learn how much money he had and then hate him. And I was like, wait, you love this guy. And he's amazing. And this stadium only fills up because of him. Like, you begrudge this guy $9 million at the end of his career, like he's gonna have to take this money after taxes and make the rest of his life with it. You know, he's only he's still a pretty young man, you know, they they went from loving him to hating him for making the money. And I think that learning how much people have seeing what other people have is hard for people to deal with. And social media makes it a million times worse because it feels like that's their entire life. And not only is that that their entire life, but everyone has this bug me. And boy that just puts you in a you know, in a place where
Unknown Speaker 34:49
you envy philosophy of you know, seeing someone's fabricated or manufactured lifestyle on social media. We build a picture in our heads of why we're not there or why we shouldn't be there or why we'll never be able to get there. We it's the story we tell ourselves. And that's what I talk about a lot in my book. The upper hand is the story we tell ourselves get so terrible. Sometimes it's think about this with with Reggie. Everyone was contributing to that $9 million. So stadiums were packed with paying customers people paid their money, unknowingly or knowingly to this guy. And once they realized that he had what they deemed as an abundance for the risk and all the things that he did. They're like, No, no, I'm not okay with this anymore. Yeah, I contributed to this, but I'm not okay with anymore. And people do that with social media. I love this picture. It's so beautiful. This girl, this guy, they're so pretty. They're so amazing. There's such a great life. Wait a minute. My life's not that good. I don't like them anymore. That's Wow, no ego, probably a crappy person. Now we start to tell ourselves a story. Well, I would do that. But my circumstances were the way I grew up my socio economic, you know, background, my resources, my this my that, then we start to validate why we're not as good or why they're better. Instead of just considering, hey, I have everything I could ever possibly need within me in the way I think. And I'm willing to be resourceful enough to make the life that I want. Because that's a reality.
Scott Benner 36:20
Yeah. No, I think there's a lot to that. And I and I believe that there's a whole generation of kids right now who are coming up. And they don't have any perspective. Like they didn't know Reggie white before free agency like I did. And, and I it is a worrisome thing that it could spill over and likely will spill over into many, many different aspects of people's thinking. You know, you see it even like, ladder climbing in business, where people get a job and immediately want to know how to how do I get a better job here, like when they get to do this job first, and then you know, be proficient at it, show up on time, do good work, and then we'll look at you and move you up a little bit. And that takes time. People don't even want to wait for that. Like you said, they want to go to the finish line. They don't want to run the race.
Chris Ruden 37:08
Yeah, and the any anything takes time. It's that iceberg effect. People only want to hang out at that little bit of iceberg without seeing all the thing that's beneath the surface that people see. You know, I have a big thing coming out and People Magazine, I'm releasing this book. I'm booking talks, I'm doing all this supposedly cool stuff work with Nike Tommy Hilfiger? it Yeah, it sounds cool. And all that. But people don't see the four years of struggle. And I'll share this with some people, people who might know me, but they'll see my account and blue checkmark and all the fancy stuff. But two years ago, halfway in my career, I tried to quit everything. I took a incomplete resume resume. I went to vitamin Shoppe to get a $7 an hour job because I was done. I was done. I was like, This isn't working. I'm never going to be successful. This sucks. A lot of people don't know this, because I was still getting close to the height of my career. But I didn't see it because I wanted more. And I wanted so much more that I wanted to throw it all away, because I was so frustrated that I wasn't at the finish line. Because I didn't finish running the race. And I'm so thankful, whoever if you ever listen to this guy, I'm so thankful that the guy who interviewed me looked at my resume and talked to me, and he refused to hire me because he said, I have way too much going for me. Wow. That's very cool. I'm so thankful for that because I tried to quit. And people might listen to like, know what No, I did. Guys, you look back two years ago, you might think I was like, killing it. I was struggling mentally because the story I was telling myself was so bad. I just I told myself how I feel like a fake and a phony. And this story I told myself, the story we tell ourselves sometimes gets so rough, and we're so bad to ourselves. Because of wanting more and or being jealous of what other people have or what we think they have. We only know what we see. We got to correct those stories. Yeah, and you have to find your value in different ways to like it can't just be how many people downloaded a thing or how many no likes? I love that you brought that up? Yeah. Okay. And I'd love to get your perspective on this too. The reason that doesn't work, is because external validation will never make up for internal validation, external circumstances, external Success and Support and external feedback will never be enough for a lack of internal feedback. So I'm sure you've dealt with this in your career. If you aren't proud of yourself, if you don't feel successful or appreciative or if you don't maintain the promises to yourself. No amount of external clapping, patting you on the back. We'll we'll fix that
Scott Benner 39:49
ever. I don't see the numbers as validation. I see the numbers as people reached. And I hope that that feels different to people when they're Listening because one of the episodes that I hear back about the most was Episode 11. So that means it happened in the beginning of 2015. And by hearing about it, I mean, it is the episode that more people point to and say that changed my perspective about diabetes. When I recorded Episode 11, I got as many downloads that month,
Unknown Speaker 40:23
as this show will get while you and I are talking. That's insane, right. And last month, I got more downloads than I think the first 18 months of the show combined.
Scott Benner 40:35
Wow. And it's easy to feel like that success. But in my heart, it's not. And I and I think how many people are living with diabetes, how many people use insulin every day? They don't know how to use it, how many people's blood sugars bounce around? Right? You start telling me Oh, 100,000 here, million over here. You know, it's nice. It's amazing. I know, I don't want to say nice. Like, it's dismissive. It's amazing. And I am thrilled by it. And it is. And it is led by the people who share the show with other people, I've never bought an ad anywhere on anything. And so that's all crazy. But if you think of it as people, until I get listened until you tell me there are 1.8 million people on the planet who have type one diabetes, and I received 1.8 million different emails, I don't feel done. And and that I used to think of was high minded. But now I think of it as purposeful.
Unknown Speaker 41:33
I think that's 100% purposeful. And even then, let's say 1.8 million people download that it messages like this, these conversations around diabetes, that our condition is continual, minute by minute constant, day in and day out changing. So 1.8 million downloads, that's amazing. But tomorrow is a new day, that's not gonna happen. You have to download daily, and I'm not talking about just this podcast, but you have to download daily, the idea that your diabetes is not defeating you, your diabetes, it just exists, it's not good or bad. It just exists. The beta cells in your pancreas are not, you know, not really working. So that's, that's where the story ends, right? Or that's where the story starts for a lot of people because they take that physiological thing, and they say, you know, what else I'm gonna bring into this story. Not only is diabetes, autoimmune disease, but diabetes is bad. Diabetes limits me diabetes, then we start telling ourselves, all of these things that diabetes doesn't do it, diabetes doesn't do anything else, aside from being an autoimmune disease. But it's a story we keep bringing back and you know, those downloads, you have to download daily, the idea that I did the things I needed to do, whether it was listening to a podcast, or listening to a talk or believing in yourself or checking your sugar, basic things, you have to download daily, the idea that I won this moment, I will win as many moments as I can. And when I lose moments, I will continue to move forward.
Scott Benner 43:04
I think it's important. Flexibility, I think, is what you're talking about too. And I think flexibility is incredibly important. Because you might think something right now, that turns out to be true in the moment, and it won't be true two weeks from now. Or maybe you're just wrong. I'm, I'm I ask people all the time when I'm talking to them. And I never I never think I'm saying it right. Or it's a thought I'm having that. I'm just not articulating, I guess, but I always wonder how many people are getting to the right and the wrong way. Like by mistake, like how many people are having health success by mistake. And even that worries me like, you know, you don't I mean, when somebody happens to people on MDI a lot, they'll use too much Basal insulin. And then they just strategically eat during the day so they don't get low. And they think well, I don't get low on my a one season the six is I'm doing great, except that they were to skip a meal. You know, they have
Chris Ruden 44:02
I have a very good concept around that. So people will say one of the phrases I hate the most and it's often applied to diabetes management is don't fix what's not broken. Have you heard that? Yeah, and I don't think let me talk about that. If we didn't fix what was not broken, we'd still be using candles instead of electricity. Candles worked amazing. Honestly, don't fix what's not broken. Okay, do this is what works for me. I will tell you that when you go to the restroom number two, you could wipe your butt with sandpaper because it would work. Or we can do what works best and use toilet paper. It's not about what works because a lot of times we get in trouble doing what works, because what works isn't what works best. We need to learn to optimize constantly, mentally, physically the way we take care of ourselves with your diabetes management team. It's not about what you've been doing that works. It's like what happens if there is better that we can fix, not that we're chasing better in the sense of like, you always have to be better. But sometimes you do need to take a step back. If you're so close to the wall, sometimes you're so close that you can't see the bigger picture until you back up, you know, and that that's the biggest issue. I tell people all the time. It's macro and micro, sometimes you have to look micro, and sometimes you have to step back and see 100% 100% it's not about just what works or what you've always done. Just because you've always done something one way doesn't make it right right now. And I saw it happen to me. I mean, I don't say anything on this podcast that I haven't experienced what happened to me, trust me, I still struggle daily, and I still make mistakes, constantly, I go to mental and 15 minutes late, there's gonna be a spike, you know, unless I'm using like inhaled insulin. I'm like, oh, man, I messed this up. It's normal. We make mistakes. Yeah, and you have that you just
Scott Benner 45:51
have to know how to, you have to know how to bounce. Like, you got to be able to stay loose. And, you know, just try to think of when somebody tried to teach a basketball when you were seven. It just keep your feet moving. You know, there's so many little things about how you how you succeed, that translate to bigger picture ideas. And I just want people to be able to see them sometimes because I don't have an episode for everything. I get notes all the time, like, do you have an episode that will specifically address my problem? And I'm like, Ah,
Chris Ruden 46:21
yeah, like, oddly specific, like maybe in the future. But as of right now, I don't think so you also have a ton of episodes. So I'm sure it can be tough to like, kind of look through, oh my gosh, sometimes I'm like, I think so. And that's the cool part, you have covered a lot. But there's so much more to cover. And that's why you'll always have things to talk about. Same thing with me and everyone, everyone has something to talk about. Because everyone has a story. Everyone can derive a message from that story. And everyone has a different perspective, we're all unique in the way we process and interpret information. So don't ever think that you're not good enough to share. Because you don't have to influence a crowd of 10,000 people or a million downloads, you can influence that one person, you know, and that one person might be might have been made, I vowed to be the person I never had growing up. And you might be helping that one person that could change the world or, you know, just changing the world can be helping one person. So I think people get a little too obsessed with scale, and not enough with the value that they bring. So it's not about quantity, when you said that a person's name popped into my head. And I can tell you that if I live 100 years, and that person's life is the only life I've ever impacted. I did a good thing. That's it. Yeah. And I know that's true every single time I speak. Yeah, if one person in the audience got a slightly better perspective for their personal life, I did my job.
Scott Benner 47:45
No, I definitely no, that's true, I'll tell you to that. The, the one place where scale matters to me is that the more people you get, as real listeners, not somebody who's heard an episode or two, the more feedback you get. And so then perspective start coming in where I get to go, I had never considered that. And then I get this consider, then after I consider I get to shape it into a message and put it out. And then it reaches other people who are not fringe, but maybe their problems just aren't as cookie cutter as some others, right. And that's how I feel like the podcast is turned into a repository, instead of just a show, like I do, I do genuinely believe, Chris, that if you went back to Episode One, and just listened through this, these episodes, I think you'd be psychologically more comfortable, I think you're a one seed might be in the fives. And I think diabetes would be easier for you than it was the day before you started. Now, I don't know if I can expect everyone to do that. But I'm happy to be able to say that I believe that thing exists. And
Chris Ruden 48:53
that's the good thing, though, is that you know, I don't mean this in any negative way whatsoever. But it's not your responsibility to have people take action, but it is your responsibility to give people the tools to take action. And you've done just that. And I feel like everyone should do that. Everyone needs to take responsibility for what they can manage which is truly what you think and how you react and sometimes it's hard yes easier said than done but better done than said but we all have an ability to do a little bit better and I know when I say that I there's a few things that pop in my head that I'm like yeah, I need to do better in these things. And I'm sure you know same thing if I asked you you know what do you need to do better at you probably have a few things. We all do. And it's we can't just stop it thinking yeah, I need to do better. It's like okay, what can I do to do better I don't need to fix everything today. I don't need to be at the finish line today. But I need to lace up well, it's definitely shade and go he just completely cliched, but I will be the best version of myself the day I die and that is sad. But I can't believe I'm just gonna say yeah,
Scott Benner 49:58
I say that confidently. isn't great. It's the it's it's I can't believe I'm just gonna like blurt out a T shirt here. But it's the journey. It really is like the journeys your life. It, I realize now that any dollar I put away, I'm putting it away for my kids and their kids kids, I don't think of it as like, Oh, you know what I'll be able to do one day, like when I was 20, I was like, if I save $100, I'll be able to get this stereo. Like, that's how it felt to me, like, I'll get this and then I'll have that. And now I just think like, you know, if I get some extra money, I'll put it aside and I'll give it to Colin Arden. And I know my wife feels the same way and having a partner who thinks the same is also really valuable. Like, the Chris, I have a slightly nicer car than I should. But I'm wearing a sweatshirt that I bought 25 years ago,
Chris Ruden 50:44
you never need to make up or validate why you do the things you do. Right? Why you get the things you get or whether it's good or bad you wearing clothes that you might deem not nice, or a car that you deem is too nice. Those are all personal decisions that make you happy in the moment, that's not a problem. No, some people are okay with a, you know, seven a one c some people are okay with a 4.9 a one see that the way you define your life is not to be judged by anyone else. Right. And I'll say this, I'll say this for anyone who judges people's agency chosen people's numbers or anything, thinking is hard. And that's why most people resort to judging. Yeah, that's interesting. And it's true. And it's prevalent too, I will tell you that the the backwards way that I built a Facebook group for the podcast, ended up really making it valuable, because I didn't start with
Scott Benner 51:43
a Facebook group. I started with a podcast. So we all listening have similar ideas about diabetes, and then they all come together in a place where they can actually kind of touch each other. And to see how kind and valuable they are to each other. And not judgmental is fascinating. Like, every once in a while someone will hear like, Oh, this is a good face. You know, it's so base, and base and simple. People will be like, Oh, I heard this Facebook group is where you get good a one sees that, you know, and then they show up. And they're they're like, and they're an outsider in that they haven't heard the show. Like they're actually people who will show up in the Facebook page, and some and they'll say to somebody, like, how did you do that. And some people say, Oh, I just listened to these episodes of the podcast, and they'll go what podcast. And I'm always fascinated by that, that the the you've
Chris Ruden 52:32
gotten to the point where people have known different parts of something that you don't consider as prominent, but maybe to them they do you know, and that's just shows the the leakage of value that has gone from your, your baby, your main thing, your podcast, to even the things you don't deem as important, like when he said you don't focus as much on Facebook or Instagram, but you still have that value. And that when you know, I guess this is this is the toughest part for a lot of people. When you know or think you know what your purpose or passion as in, you truly find fulfillment in something, when you just do it. You just did the podcast, that was your main focus, you know, you added the Facebook, you added the Instagram, but you just the podcast is everything. But the value goes so much farther than the intended platform. Because any platform you touch, whether you have five followers or 5 million followers, that value is still there. So those five followers will still feel value. And I love seeing that.
Scott Benner 53:28
No, it's it was unexpected, you're not wrong with that I didn't. I made that Facebook group because people asked me to it was not an idea of mine. And now I would tell you, it is and I you know, I guess I think it's because I'm another from another generation because I'm going to be 50 this summer. But to tell somebody that I am really proud of the Facebook group that I have feels odd to me.
Chris Ruden 53:51
Like and maybe that's just a relationship you have with Facebook, maybe you have preconceived notions about social media, and like we all kind of do, and certain platforms and things like maybe think I go, a lot of people are fake on social media, I don't want to be fake on social media. But social media, when used correctly, is just a platform, another platform to give value. You know, a hammer is great for building house, but it can also be used as weapon or it can break a window. It's not the tool itself, but how you use the tool and let's say not becoming the tool. Please don't do that. But seriously, you know, you've used the tool in a way that is value based. And regardless of your feelings about it, it's there. So deep, what do you think stops people from building things thoughtfully? Is it the is it that they don't want to wait? or fear 100% fear, fear of other people's opinions. We are terrified of how we think other people might view us which we'll never be able to know that's other people's opinions of us are not our responsibility to manage. And honestly, other people's opinions of us are not our business. They're not and if you are stopping the value that you possess If you are not giving the value because you are afraid that someone who you won't serve anyways is going to judge you. I think that's selfish. I think it's selfish on your part, to deny the perspective that could help someone else. Because of fear of something, someone might think that you can never know for sure, there was a person when I
Scott Benner 55:19
started this podcast, who I didn't know, I guess, but knew me through my blog, and reached out to me, and I ended up speaking with them. And they took that time to tell me that the way I deliver my message is wrong. And like, chastise me over. And I still remember that conversation, because what do you think about when you when you when they said that to you, what immediately went in your head was their doubt? I don't know. I knew they were wrong. I knew that. Okay, I know that the people who talked about diabetes did it in two basic of a way, that they were not clear enough. They were not blue collar enough that they didn't, they weren't complete enough. And I, the way I used to put it was, if you read a diabetes blog, it was a sentence of direction and a paragraph of apologizing for it. And it was sort of like you should Pre-Bolus because if you do this happens, and then basically a disclaimer, Pre-Bolus in could be dangerous, because so you just told them it was good, and then scared them out of it, you know, like I was like, and that was always that it was to me, most of the content that wasn't personal related, like people's feelings that was more technical, was inaccessible, incomplete, and left you more scared than when you're confused than when you got there. And I thought, I am going to be clear. And I am going to be
Unknown Speaker 56:44
complete. I'm not you remember how I said, you know, people do what works. And then you know, smart people do what works best. I feel like that's what you did, you took something that kind of worked, you know, the blogging space people, the way people talked about things, that kind of work, and you just made it better. Yeah. And I love that you had the confidence in knowing that what you're doing was so value based that if a million people lined up and said you were wrong, you would still keep doing it, because you believed in the value that you're presenting. Now, I will say a lot of people have a lot of doubts, because the stuff they're putting out, they don't believe in, you know, they don't truly believe they're chasing the finish line. And of course, there's going to be doubts when you don't have a rock solid foundation and knowing your value. You know, if I was trying to, to sell you an item for $100 that I knew was $20. I'm gonna have doubts. But if I'm selling selling you an item that's $100. And I know it's $100. If you offer me 90, I'm gonna say no, yeah, because I know the value in this like a $20 bill, when it's crumbled up, it doesn't lose its value, because it has wrinkles. It's the same thing when you know the price, the worth you have or the worth that you bring. And it doesn't fluctuate, no one can ever bring you down from that level.
Scott Benner 57:56
So I'll pull the curtain back a little bit here and tell you that things that people won't understand like, or might not know, like, for some of the advertisers on the show, I don't actually deal directly with a company I deal with, I'll deal with like a PR agency that the company pays, you know, to run their public relations stuff. And I will say in a meeting, and I believe that this will be impressive to you. I will tell people, I don't want all of your money right now. I want a reasonable amount every year. For as long as I can do this, I want you to be thrilled to send me a check. In my mind, you should be there going, oh, we're paying for these podcasts, I'd say best money we ever spent. I said because when you feel like that, that means that I've built a thing that's helping people, because it's the only reason why it will continue to exist. It's not a comedy podcast. We're not going over World War Two history, right? Like, if this podcast doesn't deliver on the level of entertaining and valuable for people with diabetes, it'll crumble. And if you're willing to buy an ad, that means it's helping people. And I said, so I have a long term goal in mind. I want this podcast to be alive. 10 years from now, I want to have to stop doing this podcast because I'm so old. I can't keep it up now because it fell apart. And so I don't think many people would say that on a business call. But that's what I tell them. I said I want you to be thrilled to send me money. And I want you to be thrilled for years not just today. There are too many people grabbing, like let me put I saw a person wants they got a guest on a show they thought was going to be a big deal. And they actually tried to shop the episode and and charge people a bunch of money to buy an ad on a single episode. And I thought no one listens to your podcast. They're not going to magically start listening to it because you actually landed a guest. Like that's not how this works, you know? But they thought it was it was it was a land grab. They're like let me see how much I can get right now right now. And I thought Boy, that's the mistake, like build something
Chris Ruden 59:59
As desperation moves like that, especially people thinking like it, I call it conditional happiness and just conditional situations where if I had x, then maybe y, you know, if I had this guess that maybe I could make some money. If This Then That. And when you set up those terms for your happiness, or the way you deem success or even your finances, you're always basing it on an external and outside thing. Yeah, versus if I was just giving value, then maybe value would come to me. It is that simple. It really is it so it's, it's easy. But the where the simplicity gets a little like diluted is, it's hard to break through those mental plateaus of knowing that you have to be consistent over time that and that goes with diabetes management that goes a business. I tell people a lot, you cannot replace consistency with intensity. And what I'm going to make it very clear, let's say you find a person you want to ask out guy or girl, and you know, the normal courtship, how your court someone, you would approach them in public, and you would say, Hey, I have flowers and a ring and I want to get married. And I will let's get pregnant tonight. And like I'm just no not gonna work. intensity, not good. Consistency, building over time develops a relationship. Intensity gets you a restraining order. Let's, let's make sure we're not trying to replace intensity just because you're excited right now, whether that's with your diabetes management, because you just saw a new endo, or you talk to someone like Gary shiner or read a book. We're all motivated when we're motivated. And then we want to be super intense. You know, I want to be in shape. So I'm going to go to the gym today. Tomorrow, the next day, I haven't gone to the gym for years, I'm going to only eat boiled chicken and water and broccoli. And in three days, I'm going to quit because this is terrible. Yeah. Because we try to replace consistency with intensity. And you cannot do that, right? I've seen companies do it too, like I've been I'm sure you have and you get approached, like we want to do a thing and we're gonna do this and come on out, we'll give you some money, and we'll get your opinion. And I'm like, No, thanks. Like why I'm like, I don't want to say there are many companies who try and throw money at the wall to see what sticks and nothing usually does. Because I've worked with companies that have done it incredibly well. And I've worked with companies that are solely based on money, they know nothing about me. They treat me like I hate the word influencer but influencer number 47. And they're like, yeah, you know, you have this engagement, and we will pay you this much you will deliver this message and I could you be any more robotic, right? Don't you understand that? Like, I'm one I'm a person too. I know my value. And I know what the people I serve what value they want. So if it's not native or natural, and it goes against like, I'm very big on authenticity, communication and community that we won't align. It's not going to work. Right.
Scott Benner 1:02:54
I I've only once been in a private conversation been called an influencer. And I stopped the conversation and said, I not only don't believe that's true, but I it makes me uncomfortable. And please never say it again. Yeah,
Chris Ruden 1:03:11
I truly believe everyone has influence and is capable of being an influencer. I think there's a negative connotation just because of where we're at. But I will also say the reverse of that is there are many influencers today who do not have influence and that is like a cheeseburger without cheese. Well, either Yeah, that's, that is really fascinating to see. And, and I have to admit, I watch it, you know, from afar with a little bit of interest.
Scott Benner 1:03:38
It's very fun. It is a I love watching people try to pretend that there's something they aren't online to, I guess, trick the thing into existence and then jump on it and ride it. Like that's always
Unknown Speaker 1:03:52
how it feels to me. For the people who aren't aware, I feel bad because it being an influencer wasn't a career, it was a byproduct of a career, you know, and people who actually have influence which are anyone you have influence, I have influence everyone who is willing to share a message on any medium has influence or potential influence. But now the term influencer is associated with engagement. When did we take influence out of influencer and make men make it engagement? Or, you know, that's really what it is? Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:04:29
I've had really long conversations recently with a newer PR company, where I just met this person and the person I was talking to told me that the entire idea of influencing just based on that, like, I took a picture of myself eating something, that kind of thing. She's like, it's dying. We don't believe in it anymore. And she's like, it will go away. She's like, it'll always work on big levels like Kim Kardashian, I'll do something she's like, but, you know, Jill, who decides she's got 5000 followers on something is going Start doing that she's like, we don't see that as working anymore. It goes back to what you said, which is,
Unknown Speaker 1:05:07
it may be I do have influence, but it's not like I woke up one day and said, you know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna be an influencer.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:14
Yeah, you can't.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:15
That's it.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:16
It's the equivalent of people saying like, you know what? Today, I'm gonna go play for the dolphins, the Miami Dolphins. That's what I'm going to do today. And no, you're not because you didn't do the work, you didn't create the influence and influence is a byproduct of value. People are skipping, giving value and trying to go straight to influence. And again, I will say it and you guys probably heard it so many times. You cannot hang out at the finish line without running the race, your blood sugars will not be magically better without doing the work. If you continue not to do the things that make your blood sugars better. You cannot be upset that your blood sugars are not better. You can't be upset with the result for the work you didn't put in.
Scott Benner 1:05:59
Yeah, in the end it just it I'm if I have any influence over people, it's not in that bad connotation way that you're thinking is what I really have is, I think a podcast that's valuable. And because it's valuable other people listen to it. Yeah, then people who want to who want to get their message through your thing. See it as influence.
Chris Ruden 1:06:22
I love that you put it that way. Because so I called my book the upper hand one because you know, I have a prosthetic arm and I just make dad jokes because I think it's funny. But people like oh, upper hand, that's, that's bad. It's like manipulation. Like, I don't want people to get the upper hand over other people. I need you to get the upper hand over yourself and all the crap we tell ourselves, you know, going back to like the stories we tell ourselves, if you can't influence yourself to have better habits or live a better life, improve your management or anything like that. How could you want to be an influencer of others when you can't even influence yourself? We got to start asking better questions who are so self communication? You know, and then kind of go from there. I think people jumped the gun a lot in today's society. Yeah, no kidding. So what? What made you write a book, I guess? Like, I've just watched you do so many interesting things that like, I'll never forget the night I turned on the television. I was like, there's Chris running across the TV screen. That's Yeah, I mean, for me, it's always been, you know, people don't see that bottom of the iceberg. hiding my disability for 17 years really kind of wrecked me mentally, and diabetes as a catalyst for me to start being an advocate. But I was still hiding in plain sight. You know, I never felt authentic, I constantly felt like I was trying to be the image of what I wanted people to see me as never just being mean. So when we have these conversations, it really gives me like PTSD to think like, man, I used to live like this. You know, I live this fake, confident, fake, authentic lifestyle where I tried to appease everyone. And that's the number one way to be depressed, is to try and please everyone else by yourself. So this book, I've always wanted to write something along the lines of like self communication, because we hear the concept communication is key. But I think that is the second step because self communication is more key. You know, if you can't communicate yourself, how can you expect to communicate with other people? Well, this book is about overcoming obstacles and helping you get the upper hand over yourself. And I truly think that we can't do much all we can do is control our thoughts and actions and reactions. And that's what I want people to start doing. I can't there's no positive thinking there's no podcast, there's no motivational speech that you'll hear that will take away your diabetes. We know that there's no podcast or motivational speech that will make diabetes easier for your kid immediately. Yeah, but there is perspectives, there are things that we can do that can potentially help. And that's what you share on every one of your episodes, something some way whether it's mentally, physiologically, management wise, something we can do for me that something is the way we think. And I wrote this book in a digestible way to just help people think better. Cool, where can people get it? It comes out on May 4, and it'll be on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and stuff. But this, this is not a money making thing for me, like I'm working with a publisher, which is great and all but this has been a two year process and to see this come out, and to be able to hold it in my hand and read it. I get chills thinking about it. Because I'm like, man, I love giving these speeches. But when people go home, your motivation is like taking a bath. If you only do it once a year, I'm sorry, but you're gonna stink. You know, same thing with your podcasts, you don't, you can get those downloads or whatever. But you need people to keep listening to keep doing keep that perspective going. We need to keep doing these things. So I just really hope that that one person that I help when they start to get into a downfall or a pitfall, you know, yeah, maybe they read the book, maybe they listen to your podcast, maybe they do something extra to pick themselves back up. And that just gives me so much fulfillment. Well listen, I can Help people for certain I wrote a book and you don't make a lot of money from doing it. So you really want to write not. And again, we both know that money made money comes as a byproduct from giving value. And I don't look at opportunities anymore as money making opportunities. Obviously, we all need to live and have eaten before to insulin, which is a whole another story here, right? But money truly does come when you focus on giving value, I think is Brian Tracy, who said when you replace the word, so with help, you'll always have sales. And I found that to be very, very true. Yeah, I I've never heard that. But it's absolutely my finding as well. And it takes forever to write a book it is, um, oh, yeah, I put this off for so long. And I it's, I saw it in my notes section for years. And it's nice to see it come through. But it's, it's more exciting to know that if I were to read, if I would have read this when I was younger, it might have helped me. And that's truly what it is me talking to people who might think there's no options, there's no way out. And there is, you know, my story is in a little of the book, but it's more so easy to digest concepts of getting yourself out of those ruts. And like when burnout happens, it's okay, but what do we do after that? What do we do with what we have right now to make it better, or just make it suck a little bit less?
Scott Benner 1:11:23
I have to say that I think that the struggle you had when you were younger, is incredibly valuable for people in general to hear, like, in even people, especially, I guess maybe people with diabetes who might be wearing devices or something like that, because Chris, when you know, when I met you the first time I met you, but it is undeniable. Your arm is undeniable. Like you can't like there's no way for me not to notice it as a person who meets you for and I
Chris Ruden 1:11:49
believe, I don't know if did I meet you when I have my prosthetic arm? Or? No? I'm not. Sir, I think I might have met you when I want to do hiding my hand to be honest. Okay, I think I was still hiding my hand or no glove. And obviously, my arm is shorter. And you can notice the difference. But that was still when I was hiding. And it wasn't until like two years ago, I think that two or three years ago that I like took the gloves off and like that video went viral and all this stuff. But I was hiding a majority of my life. And I know a lot of people do that with their diabetes tech or their diabetes in general. Yeah. And I know the pain that comes from wearing a mask every single day, right. And for me, that mask was a physical glove. But for a lot of people, it's hiding their equipment, or it's hiding that they take shots or pretending like they don't have diabetes or moving a certain way that hides the things that help keep them alive. I know the pain that comes from not being authentic with yourself. And that hurts me to know that people experienced what I experienced. And I want to make sure that I reduce that as much as possible. Well,
Scott Benner 1:12:52
I think that when I see you online, or when you do things that you have a head up attitude that I hope translates to people with diabetes like mine, one of the things I'm happiest about for my daughter's that she'll go out with her, you know her on the pot on her stomach with a half shirt or on her thigh. I
Chris Ruden 1:13:05
love that so much. And I wish I see people like your daughter, and I'm like, I almost get a little envious because I'm like, Man, I wish I had that. That confidence. But it makes me so happy to see a younger person to see anyone but especially a younger person, own something that just owned me for so long. Well, I hope it helps you to know that I see you as a person who mirrors that confidence now, so I definitely feel that and it's it was a weight lifted to finally accept that my disability and my diabetes, were not who I am. It's just a part of who I am right. And that wasn't my full story. I'm not broken or useless or helpless or any of those synonyms with disability, you know, I just happened to have a few USB fingers and it makes it easier for Hide and Seek when I cover my eyes because I can see where you're hiding. Well listen, I'm going to say something I didn't think I was gonna say while we were talking. And I don't normally have an opinion about stuff like this, but your current physique is my favorite of yours. I can't believe this is actually so To be fair, I just did I just broke a 10 year goal of wanting to do a bodybuilding competition just because I judged my body for so long. And now we saw those guys on the magazines. I'm like, I want to do that. And I was told that I couldn't because of my my disability, right? I just did a competition against non disabled people and I took home first place congratulations and I someone asked me, they said are you going to wear your CGM? Are you allowed to wear your CGM and I wrote this, whether I'm allowed to wear my CGM or not onstage? I'm wearing my CGM, right. representation matters to me so much. So, at my show, I had my prosthetic arm I had my CGM. I took my arm off to show my limb difference. I didn't care about the competition. I cared about what that view what that look might do for someone. Maybe what it would do for me when I was younger, you know, and I got so many messages from families. Kids and people just saying, like, seeing you, they're seeing you on TV seeing you do these things, you are giving me hope in that. Man, I can't even explain what that means to me.
Scott Benner 1:15:11
I understand. And I believe it. And I'll tell you that I'm seeing you do that. And seeing the incredible shape of you changed your body. It's why that I still to this day, when people are having trouble exercising with diabetes, I'll point them back to a number of different episodes, but yours 201. I point them back to because you talked about, you know, different ways of managing weight and stuff like that, and, and physique and health. It just, I think it all just kind of coalesce together, right? Like I am. At my core, when I talk about diabetes with people, I tell them, you got to get your basil, right, you need to Pre-Bolus a lot of your meals need to understand the glycemic load index of foods and be flexible, right? because not everything is always going to go the same way. That to me is the core. Like I think that's the base of it. And then people come along and say, but I fall while I'm exercising. And I'll tell them, I think that if you had this core together, you wouldn't fall when you were exercising, or it wouldn't be as drastic or it wouldn't be as scary. And you'd learn over time, how to balance it. And that's the work right? Like that's the that's the not the running the race.
Chris Ruden 1:16:21
Yeah, it's the running of the race, you have to do that part. You can't just tell me, I don't want to fall while I'm at soccer. I know you don't. But you got to go fix your base. You know, what's funny, what that also is, is that person who's asking for money for that one episode. That's the exact same thing. Yeah, that's that concept of trying to solve one small issue pretending that it's in a vacuum, you can't just have good sugars for that one soccer game, you have to understand conceptually, you might have insulin on board, you might be increased insulin sensitivity, or that intensity might have caused that anaerobic effect where you get a spike, and then that post, you know, low, if you don't take time to understand your condition, we almost don't have a right to be upset that our condition flat back, you know, yeah, great to be resource, we have to listen to these things like the podcasts you put out or reading these books that come out from these prominent, you know, medical people in our space. The value and the resources are there. And I know accessibility can be a thing, but the community is free as well. So I just I really need people to to run the race. So I really need people to run the race. Well, I hope everybody checks you out. What are you on Instagram is just my name at Chris rudan and Twitter's at Chris Rutan YouTube. And my website is Chris run calm. I'll be posting about my book and stuff. And I do a bunch of things in the space with like different foods and all that. But at the end of the day, I'm always available to talk. So you have an open year you have a shoulder to talk to and I'm, I'm around yeah, check Chris out. He's he's got a unique perspective. And he does a really good job, as you've heard for the last hour talking about it. So I'm a big fan of Chris, and I appreciate you doing this. I appreciate what you do as well, man, and we're all running the race and maybe, maybe there is no finish line. Maybe the finish line is running the race.
Scott Benner 1:18:18
Huge thanks to Dexcom and Omni pod for sponsoring this episode of the Juicebox Podcast. Find out more about the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor@dexcom.com Ford slash juicebox. And find out if you're eligible for that free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash at Omni pod.com. forward slash juicebox. Another thank you to Chris Rutan, author of the upper hand leveraging limitations to turn adversity into advantage. You can learn more about Chris at Chris rutan.com. And he's also an Instagram. If you want to see what I was talking about. I know if I can do it real quick before the music runs out. I might not make them. I am not making music. Dammit, I still did it though. Chris Rudin is on Instagram at Chris Rutan. And you can do a little scrolling back there and see what I mean. The man is in wicked shape right now. Crazy. Hey, while I've got your attention if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes, they begin at Episode 210. And you can also see them listed out at diabetes pro tip com. Also on that page, you'll find the defining diabetes episodes, and all other kinds of useful links for the podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please leave a positive and exciting and thoughtful review wherever you listen and tell a friend that really is the best way to help the show to grow. And I didn't rhyme on purpose. But if you want to help the show to grow, share it with a friend. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode.
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#474 Sitting in a Tree
Natalie and Stephen have a type 1 diabetes love story
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:11
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 474 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today, we're going to be speaking with a couple battling Stephen are very interesting because of their dynamic around type one diabetes. And for a number of other reasons that you'll find out as you listen. Hey, don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin.
You can follow the Juicebox Podcast on Instagram at Juicebox Podcast on Facebook at bold with insulin, and there's a private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. And of course, everything else that you need is at Juicebox podcast.com. If you're listening in an app, please don't forget to follow or subscribe. If you're listening online, you could listen to that it's pretty easy, but listening online is fine, I guess. Just not have the kids do it.
This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. g vo hypo Penn. Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. The episode is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Find out more at Contour Next one.com Ford slash juicebox. You may be eligible for a free meter, head over to the link and find out.
Natalie 1:54
Hi, I'm Natalie. I'm a software developer. And I've been with Stephen for maybe four years at this point and had no idea what diabetes was before but
Unknown Speaker 2:03
Stephen Who?
Stephen 2:05
Steven me.
Scott Benner 2:07
See you guys are getting this. This is fantastic. We don't do many with with more than two people. So I don't even know how good I am at it. Alright, so Steven, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Stephen 2:18
I'm Stephen and 32. Yeah, 30 to 30 figured out. It's hard to keep track. Steven, I
Scott Benner 2:28
don't know how old I am either. So
Stephen 2:32
I was diagnosed as type one diabetic. The summer before my last semester of college. I graduated in winter. That would be 2009 2000. January 2010 was the original official diagnosis. So I've been living with diabetes for about 10 years managing, managing and myself and then Natalie and I met and got married, like three years ago. And it's been a great ride since
Scott Benner 3:02
Natalie, did he trick you? Or is he? Is he still the same?
Natalie 3:08
No, he's the same. He told me about it while we were dating, although in kind of a roundabout way by asking how many carbs were in something that I cooked?
Scott Benner 3:17
Well, I meant that he trick you. Like, is he a jerk? And he was pretending that he was or something like that. But you've brought something up? That's incredibly interesting when that happened. And by the way, you were cooking for him in college?
Natalie 3:31
No, we met I was I've been working we worked at the same place. So we met four years ago and we got married like two and a half. Oh,
Scott Benner 3:41
my my questions are piling up. Okay, hold on. Have you guys ever like, fold around at work?
Natalie 3:48
Um, we held hands. And that's about it. I think he took me outside to give me a kiss once when I was nervous.
Scott Benner 3:54
Oh, that's lovely. So you cooked for him? How long? Had you known him before you cooked for him?
Natalie 4:02
I'm actually not that long. We weren't dating. I like to cook. And I'm that's how I show that I care for my friends. So we were going to go on a hike and I thought it would be nice to bring along a lunch.
Scott Benner 4:21
Well, I would have married you too. Is this what happens before? You're like she's way nicer than other girls.
Stephen 4:30
Yeah, it was a whole lot more involved than I expected it to be. I was expecting a peanut butter jelly sandwiches. But it was all Japanese foods. That
Scott Benner 4:40
was it the choices that took you by surprise and forced you to tell her?
Stephen 4:46
No, it was more. I have no idea what this is. And I've never seen something like this before. So she made it so maybe she knows. Gotcha. Now Steven,
Scott Benner 4:55
be honest for a second. We've heard from Natalie. She's delightful and She was just a friend, but you were trying to go out in that way, right?
Stephen 5:06
It's a little bit of a complicated story. I wasn't exactly looking to date at the time, I was just looking for friends. And it seems like girls are more willing to hang out with people. So we were hanging out. But it didn't take very long until I was definitely interested in certain pursuing her more seriously.
Scott Benner 5:27
Alright, nice. Well, I have to concur with you. I have a, I guess, a unique situation where I've been a stay at home dad for so long, that most of my interactions during the day are with women. And if I'm being 100% honest, talking to guys gets old, pretty quick. If you're interested in conversation, I think once you get past sports, boobs and cars, there's not a lot left. They don't, they don't start digging in on the big the big ideas of the day. And I'm generalizing, there are some guys, I've very good friends who can talk about anything. But for the most part, I've met a lot of guys that grunt in point. And, and that's sort of it. So I get your idea of like, you know, let's find some nice friends this way. How many carbs were in the food.
Natalie 6:18
I didn't realize that he was going that it would affect that we'd be hiking and his carb ratio was off. So he went low, but the number of carbs. It was like 30 from the rice 30 or 40. And I mean, this was years ago. And then there was another five or seven from the sugar in a miso paste. And then another five or 10 from a couple of other things that I barely remember.
Scott Benner 6:45
Natalie, this is how you got Steven, you knew that that day without knowing he needed to know. Yes. Wow. Why are you a savant? What is
Natalie 6:56
um, I had been tracking the macronutrients, so protein, fat, and carbs and food in college, because I was tired of packing your lunch go into class, eating the lunch, having another four hours of class and being hungry before the end of it. So I was trying to figure out different combinations that were satisfying
Unknown Speaker 7:15
kind of work do you do?
Natalie 7:17
I'm, I'm a software developer. I started out in biomedical engineering, and did research and didn't like the staying in the lab all day.
Scott Benner 7:25
Okay, I know you told me that. And I didn't mean to say what were you going to college for? But I'm not nearly as smart as you. So the words just came out wrong. Stephen, what do you do?
Stephen 7:35
I'm also a software developer. I started as a an IT tech basically, and work my way into the developer track. I'm like Natalie, who just jumped right into it. Well,
Scott Benner 7:46
she's brilliant. How would she not? Yeah, yeah. Seriously, I in my wildest dreams prior to diabetes, if someone would have said how many carbs are in this? I would have been like, what what do you thought just shut up?
Stephen 8:01
That's a curb. It's a food.
Scott Benner 8:02
Yes. Yeah. It's bread. So so he got low. So so you bolused or injected? I'm not sure which, and, but it's a Bolus, even if it comes through a needle, and you got low because then you went on a hike. And yeah, and Natalie, this not scare you away at all.
Natalie 8:24
Oh, I was nervous. Um, well, I guess we should correct it. We were about to go on a hike and he went low, his carb ratio was off very drastically. We learned later. Okay. And so we waited it out. We just walked around and talked. And when we started the hike, I guess the interesting part is maybe half an hour or an hour in he ran out of insulin completely.
Scott Benner 8:47
Way to go, Steven. So he's, he said you whip out the food. He's like, I need to know how many carbs it says because I have type one diabetes and I use insulin. He use too much insulin got low ran out of insulin. Yes, classic first date. I wouldn't count this as my first date either if I was the two of you, I think. So Steven, how does that happen? But how old were you back then?
Stephen 9:15
That was just four years ago. It happens because I live a mostly sedentary lifestyle and hiking wasn't usually on my activities to do. It's still the case now but I will be drastically affected by exercise or moving around. And my my blood sugar will just drop. I've been on several insulin pumps and just kept the same carb ratio and insulin sensitivity factor up until recently when we switched to a Doa algorithm. Yeah. But at that time, it was just I hadn't considered that when you're having meals right? Before activity, you don't just for the full meal. So it's just something that a lapse on my part. I,
Scott Benner 10:08
I was I was cracking up and holding it in when you said I'm usually sedentary like I imagined you, like, you know, I do need a friend this Stephanie girl seems nice or Natalie girl seems nice. Excuse me. And, and but she wants to go for a walk on a hill must have been like I don't do those things. And why is this happening to me? See, Natalie, he did like you he doesn't go for a walk for anybody. He doesn't know what he thought I'm I'm passing judgment right now. He was he was smitten already. Okay, so this is interesting. So you've moved from pump the pump the pump in your life, and just kind of blindly taken settings with you? Were you having great results, and therefore, you wanted to mimic them? And that's why you moved the settings? Or did you just not really consider them that that that? Well.
Stephen 10:59
I think I had gotten pretty much a decent idea of what it was from my initial diagnosis. So I had gotten them dialed in for my lifestyle at that time. But I believe that my Basal rate was too high, and my carb ratio was too low for that reason, or vice versa. I forget what it was.
Scott Benner 11:22
So I find I'm sorry, I find when people leave injections and go to pumps, they they end up falling into one or two categories. Either they were having this great success on MDI. And it's sometimes because their Basal insulin was heavier maybe than it should have been. And it was kind of masking mistakes with meals. And they were eating frequently enough to it for it not to cause them a problem. Or you know, sometimes doctors will scale all of your settings back and your blood sugar's will rise up greatly when you move to a pump because for some reason they want to fine tune from lesser to more. That's a bit but something's missing here though. I'm not sure what it is yet. Stephen, we're going to get to the to the core of this year. But how did you guys end up managing together? Like what? Because you just said something really interesting a second ago, Stephen, you said we moved to a DIY solution. You said we like you and Natalie are just like one brain on this is not the case.
Stephen 12:28
It's pretty close. Natalie, what do you think?
Natalie 12:31
I am, excuse me, I am pretty quick to check blood sugar. So I have a bit I think I usually have a better feel for where Stephen is at any given time. Not because I'm nervously checking it but because my I don't know what to do in this particular moment is pick up my phone and instead of going to some other app or checking the internet, the first thing I check is what student's blood sugar. Okay. And from doing that. More recently, I think I have a good feel for Hey, by the way, you need a sip of juice, or let's take a quick walk to kick things in a little bit faster and stop this stuff this trend up. But before we switch to the DIY loop, I was more just carb management.
Unknown Speaker 13:17
Okay,
Natalie 13:17
I really think but carbs are I mean, they're a pretty important factor. I trust his basil rates, right? So it was more just when we're about to mess up, whatever, whatever he's at. He needs to know accurately.
Stephen 13:33
So Steve, yeah. And God, please, I think that it started when she started making lunches for me when we we ended up working at the same places how we how we met initially. But I would bring prepackaged food and lunches with nutrition facts panels on them, and dose an estimate that way. But then sometimes I forget my lunch. And Natalie was making food and she offered to make lunch, just two servings instead of one. And so I started to rely on her for carb counts and things like that, because she made the food so she knows what's in it. And that just continued on. We really debated about switching to the DIY pump because it was an expense that wasn't going to be covered by insurance, but did a ton of research into it and figured it would probably be worth it. People are really saying that this is the way to go. And they have a whole lot more control over it. To give a brief history of the Thompson CGM that I've been on. I believe I started with an animus ping and then switch to the vibe or vice versa. And then that was after six months of being on MDMA and because of the initial diagnosis then NMS was Going away and I switch to a I forget to switch to something in between but then I was on the Medtronic six, seven ag because that was the first hybrid closes this whole hybrid closed loop system that was available for the market. And then we get really frustrated with that. That was after we had gotten married. And so it made the jump to DIY algorithm a little bit easier, and much more refreshing because it didn't have all the calibration, alarms and things like that. through that time with the animist, I had the Dexcom CGM, the g4 and then the G five. And then the Medtronic CGM with the 670. And now I'm back on the Dexcom g six, which is also so much better because no calibrations.
Scott Benner 16:00
Yeah, I wonder if your backgrounds don't lend to the, to the loop as well, right, being able to see more granularly how things work. And you guys must do Did you kind of seamlessly understand building the app and all that stuff that must have seemed like a walk in the park to you, right?
Stephen 16:18
It wasn't necessarily a walk in the park. But we actually tried to start writing an Android app before digging into the DIY one. So that brief tastes, we didn't get very far to the end to that at all. But that brief tasted, it was just Oh, it's another code project. And you click Build and put it on your phone.
Scott Benner 16:42
And that's that's how that works. So she's not like me sitting here, sweating and leaning over the desk and thinking that you're about to screw the whole thing up entirely, constantly while you're looking at it and people are texting constantly. I'm in a panic when I'm doing it normally. Although, you know, it's funny for me is that I can't my level of focus is it doesn't, it doesn't change for the situation. So I can't, I can't force myself to read through something. So when all that information comes up on the front, I just scan it for what I think looks important. I can't believe I ever got that thing belt even with help to be perfectly honest with you. There's something fascinating about the two of you, and we haven't figured out what it is yet. Natalie, why do you want to help him with this diabetes and Steven, then the question to you is did you want help? Or was it just there and you were like, Huh, cool. We'll do it together. chivo Kibo pen has no visible needle, and it's the first pre mixed autoinjector of glucagon for very low blood sugar and adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is chivo hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about, all you have to do is go to G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. g Vogue shouldn't be used in patients with insulin, Noma or pheochromocytoma. Visit g Vogue glucagon.com slash risk.
When you visit Contour Next, one.com forward slash juicebox what you're going to find is the most accurate and easy to carry blood glucose meter that my daughter has ever had. It's the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Besides having a bright light and easy to read screen, and second chance test strips, it's also just it's kind of adorable, it's cute little meter, right? It's small and easy to carry, but not so small that you can't hold it. I don't know if you know what I'm saying there. But like sometimes you have one like falls out of your hand all the time or it's hard to turn or operate not this one. This one is designed with you in mind. Head over now and find out if you're eligible for a free meter. That's a possibility you'll find out at Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. While you're there, you're gonna learn about Second Chance test trips, meaning that you can go in get some blood but not enough, go back and get more blood without ruining the accuracy of the test trip. It's pretty cool. It's a second chance of sorts. You know that happens right? You're like Ah, it's good. It's not enough it's more here and then you're thrown away test strips doesn't have him with this meter. The Contour Next One may be maybe less expensive cash than other meters are through your insurance. Not a crazy thought. Go over and find out it really is a terrific website. I'm not just saying that. It's well thought out and it has a ton of information. There are links to G vo glucagon and the Contour Next One blood glucose meter in the shownotes of your podcast player, and it Juicebox Podcast comm if you can't remember the links, I
Natalie 20:15
think part of it goes back to I said that I show care or affection by making food for people, it could be generalized more to helping. So I'm like in college, if a friend was sick, I was constantly bringing them things asking if I could run to the store for them. If someone was working on a project, I wouldn't leave their side until the project. Like, if we were working on a group project, excuse me, then I wouldn't leave their side until the project was done. Even when the other teammates said, well, there's only one part left. So we're out of here. And that's just my mentality. I have a good knack for remembering and noticing things. So what I noticed Stephen would forget to change the exercise mode on his pump while we were walking or something. If I remembered, why wouldn't I help? And especially if I want him? He's five years older than me. So if I want him to live roughly the same, like the time is diabetes.
Scott Benner 21:11
She's already planning for your death, Steven, okay. You know, 4050 more years. I'm gonna have to find another guy if he can't hold on. Wait, wait. So Natalie, not to play pop psychologist too much but divorced parents
Natalie 21:25
know. Uh, huh. I'm sorry.
Scott Benner 21:28
Did you have a sibling with an issue?
Natalie 21:30
No. My mom was concerned that Stephen had diabetes. When we were dating. She said, Are you prepared to deal with that? And I looked into it and the records I SAW said diabetics died 15 years before they normally would. And I was like, that's 20 years difference in women already live longer than men. That sounds very sad. So that became important to me. Sure, if this if I'm going to marry this person, and we're supposed to live together for the rest of our lives, then I'd like that to actually be for the rest of our lives.
Scott Benner 22:03
Wow. You're just a genuinely kind person. Alright, let's just real quick. You don't like? Like kick puppies, or there's nothing we're missing here about you. Right? Like there's like you're not running a cult. But nothing weird. Like, you're just you're seriously, why are you so nice. Dammit. I want to know, Steven, I can't move on till I find out why Natalie is so nice. What part of the country? You're from
Unknown Speaker 22:27
Tennessee.
Scott Benner 22:28
Southern. I see. Okay, now we're getting to why wait, wait, you guys don't have the accent Really?
Natalie 22:34
My mom is from Wisconsin. And my dad is from Texas. And I think they canceled out.
Scott Benner 22:39
I just heard the con in Wisconsin, so let's not get crazy. Okay, Natalie. I heard that a little bit. Alright, so that was okay. But you Steven, do you know what I'm saying? Did you all feel too good to be true? Does Natalie still feel stupid to be like I'm thinking of telling my wife to get out? And then I'm gonna go try to find Natalie. Is she like the kindest person you've ever met? What what? How do you see her?
Stephen 23:03
Well, I won't share. That's for sure.
Scott Benner 23:05
Yeah, well, I'll find you if I have to say that.
Stephen 23:09
You have to you have to just like Jakob insulin pump or something. But anyways, you won't
Unknown Speaker 23:14
be that hard to get rid of Steven, don't worry about you know how this way I can handle it.
Stephen 23:20
But yeah, she's she's been amazing. The best helpmate I could have ever asked for and more. All of our friends also say, you know, you guys are perfectly matched to because Natalie wants to help. And she gets into the insulin and diabetes just as much as you should.
Scott Benner 23:39
You should be better at diabetes than you are.
Stephen 23:42
Um, I may have helped with that being a more passive in it. But I think she's pretty great at it. Yeah.
Scott Benner 23:49
Well, and you can see her getting better at it. And have you learned Do you guys learn from each other? In this process? Like? Or is one of you more of the learner? And the other one just is like, Oh, that sounds reasonable. I'll do it.
Stephen 24:04
I will do a ton of research on things and not necessarily implement them. And then I'll share things with Natalie and she'll think about it too. She else is good at researching and actually acting on it. So I think that it's a it's a complimentary relationship.
Scott Benner 24:24
What Stephen what what stops you from being proactive once you have the information?
Stephen 24:30
If it's something that I'm excited about, then I'll definitely do it. But I'm more of a I need to know everything before I do something. So gather information for longer than I should. Before just working with what I have. Steven, you've
Scott Benner 24:46
heard that saying right? Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Stephen 24:51
I've heard it a lot.
Unknown Speaker 24:52
Yeah. Do people say it to you constantly. Natalie Is it is it frustrating?
Natalie 25:01
I think it can be. But I'm pretty patient and the fact that Steven is very patient with me saying, hey, by the way, do you think you could do this right now? Like, Hey, I see your rising, can you stop what you're doing and dose really fast or something like that. And it makes me way more forgiving. If he's trying, that's what I care about. So if he's willing to work with me, as long as somebody is managing it, I'm good.
Scott Benner 25:26
I have 40 more minutes to either break you guys up or prove you're the perfect couple. I'm not going to stop and so they get it because I'm, I'm very fast and like, I'm not judging you. I'm really fascinated about your interplay. It's, um, it's, it's uncommon. I would, I would think, Steven, you're ready that if Natalie is or has a baby, the baby will become her boyfriend and you will now be the guy who gets like, groceries right? You understand that? You'll become like a major Domo in the situation at some point.
Stephen 25:55
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's that's definitely accepted. That'll happen. Good, but I already go. I already go on errands for and do things for that she needs so I think it will be too much.
Scott Benner 26:09
I'm resisting the urge to be sexist and crass and say that you must be amazing in other ways. Steven, things are good. Otherwise.
Stephen 26:25
Yeah, things are good.
Scott Benner 26:27
They are Natalie white. What are you? You're like a Svengali. Natalie.
Unknown Speaker 26:32
Do you know the word? actually don't
Scott Benner 26:34
Okay, hold on a second. We'll do it together. It's a it's an oddly spelled word. Don't worry. I think I can figure it out. There it is. Ah, okay. Oh my god, I mistakenly, some people from the northeast laugh about this. I mistakenly googled svengoolie which was like a guy on like, access television. I'm making myself laugh and you have no idea what I'm doing.
Unknown Speaker 27:07
I apologize.
Scott Benner 27:09
Svengali is like somebody who could who has like a like a magical type hold over somebody. Like you like your something's hot. Why? Why can't I figure this out? What's going on? Alright, let's dig deeper. Are we very religious?
Unknown Speaker 27:25
Oh, yeah. Both. Go ahead.
Natalie 27:28
Oh, I would say yes. But not in the militant sense.
Scott Benner 27:33
Okay. In the kindness and grace sense.
Natalie 27:38
We do have. Chris, we're both Christian. And we do act on that and practice it. But we're not in the group of people yelling at people on the sidewalk. Oh, does that make sense?
Scott Benner 27:52
I appreciate that. You're not yelling at me? And because there's no, you understand that I'm from the northeast, everybody listening is like why can't scotch just accept these people are crying. I'm accepting it. I'm trying to understand. Like, I don't know how you get to like listen alley, not for nothing You and I are really similar. So I, I care like very deeply about the people around me. I spend a lot of time paying attention to them. I you know, finally had a day off on Saturday morning last week. And I remembered that someone asked for sugar cookie. So I spent like three hours making sugar cookies. While I was making them. I thought I could be doing so many other things right now. But it made me happy to make the cookies and then you know, it's not like they're only a few cookies, people ate them and or didn't I make dinner and go shopping and I pay attention to everybody's needs. But they don't seem to excuse me. I don't think they your your your interplay here, like I said is really interesting because Stephens aware of it. Whereas when you do it for children, or even sometimes a spouse when you've been married for longer, I don't think they notice and even see sometimes that people can feel I don't want to say resentful, but when they notice you're concerned about them. It's almost like they don't want you to be but you guys have none of that going on. So I'm trying to figure out why you're so nice. So that's why I'm asking weird questions.
Natalie 29:20
I get that. I asked why Steven isn't upset with how much I care fairly often.
Scott Benner 29:26
Oh, you think he should push back and you're weirded out that he doesn't?
Natalie 29:30
I'm scared that he'll push back. And I'm very grateful that he doesn't,
Stephen 29:35
because you know, one day I'll just have enough of it. And he's like,
Scott Benner 29:38
stop helping me. Alright, so Steven, but you don't feel like that?
Stephen 29:42
No, I don't think so. I think that it's it lightens the load. If it was just me dealing with my diabetes and other things, then it would be something that I would be hiding or keeping to myself. And so if she's willing to assist, I would be happy if she was just aware of it. And you know, gave gave some small input when I asked for it, but she does so much more.
Scott Benner 30:07
Now it sounds like it like Natalie, could you manage other people to do you think? Like if I just like sent you somebody Dexcom graph, do you think you could make reasonable assertions about their care? Are you at that level?
Natalie 30:21
Um, while I might be able to I think the problem is I only have exposure to Medtronic. And he switched to the six seven, he actually pretty early into a relationship not it was before we were married, and then the current loop system. So with Medtronic, I didn't even realize that your receiver for the CGM data and the pump weren't always the same thing. So there are a lot of things that I'm like, wait, what, as we listen to this podcast, there, that's separate components, or you can actually just mess with basil rates, and it doesn't fight you on it, or so on.
Scott Benner 31:00
So the podcast so you guys, alright, so do you guys listen together or separately? Or does just you Natalie.
Natalie 31:08
Stephen started listening to it, actually. And then he had me start listening for the pro tip episodes, and then to hear about your experiences with the DIY algorithm. And I was really interested in the podcast, and we tend to listen to podcasts together. Anyway, we both work from home right now. And I frequently work from home while Stephen is a remote worker. So if we're both doing something that's a little bit monotonous, like building code, then it's nice to listen to podcasts. So we were already in that habit. And I think Stephen has been listening to a few without me and then starting the ones that I would find interesting.
Scott Benner 31:50
Okay. So you understand that I think it's lovely that you guys listen together, and it really warms my heart. And then the person inside of me who wants more downloads is absolutely, absolutely irritated that you're listening on one device. Excuse me, and not listening separately on different devices. I'm torn between the kindness of the story and my needs. But no, no, that that's so Steven, you found it first.
Stephen 32:20
Yeah. Back when I was working on researching the DIY algorithm. The there was discord that dealt with, or was a community for diabetics. And so I hopped under that. And also started looking for type one diabetic podcasts and found a couple, they had one that they mentioned. And then I think I found yours. That was really it. That may have been one of those that I started listening to and stuff listening to. But yeah, I listened to a lot of podcasts. So adding one more wasn't a terrible deal. And this was relevant to our lives.
Scott Benner 33:00
Can I take a detour for a second and ask you a question for myself? If you're a person who listens to a lot of podcasts, is this podcast good for a diabetes podcast? Or is it a good podcast? Be honest.
Stephen 33:16
Well, it is a good diabetes podcast. But I think that it's it's a good podcast in general, even if it's not going to be something that's applicable to us, we still enjoy listening because you have a great demeanor with the guests.
Scott Benner 33:30
I have my hands up over my head. I'm celebrating privately in my room. Thank you. It is my goal to do this, to do what you described. And and I understand that this is not a perfectly controlled setting, because you may feel pressured to answer that way. But I believe you mainly because you appear to be two of the kindest people in the world. And I feel like you would tell me the truth in a way that would break my heart. If you've not the opposite.
Stephen 33:57
has been definitely there definitely been podcasts that I've stopped listening to because they were boring or irrelevant, or, or other reasons. But we get a kick out of listening to Juicebox
Scott Benner 34:08
Podcast. Excellent. Plus, I must seem crazy to you. Do I Natalie, you are you answer this one place?
Natalie 34:18
Um, I think the only comments that I've had have been this guy is super nice. And he's very good. He's very well suited for an interview style podcast. You're using passionate but I wouldn't say crazy.
Scott Benner 34:31
Thank you. See, you guys could well you can't move to the northeast. Now. No one's allowed to move around the country. But you should come here. We're pretty nice. Some of us I know some horrible people too, but I'm sure there are horrible people everywhere. So this is I am very passionate about it. Natalie, I I genuinely believe in my heart that there's no reason for people to struggle, although there are you know, of course, 1000s of reasons why they do struggle. I'm I'm a big fan of getting good information into people's hands so that they can do their best with it. It sounds like you guys are doing that. So, Steven, can I ask what your a one C is?
Stephen 35:12
I don't have my most recent one. See? I know it was in the fives though.
Unknown Speaker 35:18
Well, Natalie,
Stephen 35:19
do you remember? It was 5.3? Natalie knows? Good.
Natalie 35:22
I think it was 5.44.
Scott Benner 35:27
Is that with what kind of variability? Are you guys tracking that kind of stuff time and range? coefficient? What does that I count
Stephen 35:36
deviation is usually usually around 30. I think. Recently, it's been a little bit wonky. So up to 40.
Unknown Speaker 35:46
I blame Natalie.
Unknown Speaker 35:48
I blame insulin.
Unknown Speaker 35:50
Yeah.
Scott Benner 35:51
How so Natalie, tell me.
Natalie 35:53
I'm Stephen switch to keeping his keeping, filling the vial more than he normally does and using it up. So it was going longer than the usual three days. And we were dealing with a lot of bad insulin days.
Scott Benner 36:07
This is the witch pump now.
Stephen 36:13
So the app is Android APS. I'm using it with the Medtronic. 753. Right. So the the reservoir goes up to 300 units, but I've never filled it that fill. I had been filling it to 200. But we've been exercising more recently. And so my insulin needs have gone down. So I really only need 100 units for three days. So having it in for a week was not not a good idea.
Scott Benner 36:40
Gotcha. Hey, um, for the life of me, I can't think of her name. But the person who developed this the the algorithm that you're using the Android APS, she's been on the show.
Stephen 36:54
Well, yeah, I think we listen to that episode. Katie. Decent. No,
Scott Benner 36:58
no, no, no, hold on a second. Wait, you're using? You're not using lube. You're using the APS?
Stephen 37:06
Oh, yeah, we're using APS.
Scott Benner 37:10
I have to think of her name now. Because I don't want to just skip over it. Because it's amazing. She was way out ahead of other people on this. And why can't I hold on a second?
I feel terrible. Because I had her on and her. Was it her boyfriend? Are they were they married at the time? I can't think
Stephen 37:35
Oh, yeah. The openaps. Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Scott Benner 37:40
Is that what you're using?
Stephen 37:42
So with? Yeah, we looked at that one versus one that was an app on the phone. We both have Android phones. Because that's my preference. And so open APS is something that you build with a little device that has a radio separate from your phone, and you can check with it. Check what it's doing on nightscout. Yep. Android, APS basically takes that algorithm and puts it on your phone. So I can control everything from my phone with the other link, similar to how the loop works. Yes. Yeah. How that works.
Scott Benner 38:15
And they are, and I have I, I did something that makes me feel Emma said, douchey. That's a word. I can say that. But I searched on my own site, which I don't know why it makes me feel silly. But it does. Dana Lewis. And it was her husband, Scott Lybrand. And they were actually in concurrent episodes number 63 and 64. And this was so many years ago, that it was just, it was just alien to me that, that she had built this algorithm and done all this. And now, of course, you know, there's loop as well. And, you know, all the companies are bringing their algorithms to market and it just it seems so normal at the point at this point, but, um, but yeah, okay, so Dana and her husband, Scott, I apologize for not to them for not being able to pull their names out of my head very quickly. So you are just an Android person, which I assumed being a developer. That makes sense to me, right? Why do developers like Android better than iPhone?
Stephen 39:19
I would say it's because it's more customizable. You can do more things with it. And it's not locked down to one system.
Scott Benner 39:31
Why do corporations prefer iPhone over Android?
Natalie 39:36
Exactly the opposite reason. It's less customizable, so they're better able to control the security on it.
Scott Benner 39:42
Okay. So that's interesting, you know, the, okay. I lost my thought, but that that that makes sense to me. So if you're going to build something, especially a medical device, and you're going to market it, you don't want people fiddling with it, for many, many reasons. And if you're going to make something That's actually DIY, then you have to give them the ability to, to work on it. And I guess with lube, it's through x code and being able to get in there and make changes if you want to. And with the other one, it's because it's on an Android platform, so it's more accessible to how much does your background help you with it?
Stephen 40:22
Um, I've been able to tweak a couple things in the code. But I haven't really messed with it too much. Mostly, I'm a participant on the outside, I've got an issue, Hey, what's going on here? And I'll ask other people for help with it. You provide feedback on something that I really want to dive into? Gotcha. I haven't spent too much time with that.
Scott Benner 40:43
I mean, if it works, right, so I mean, what what needs to be done to it? I would imagine, like your that's not your life developing this. You're just trying to live. And it's doing a great job for you. I mean, you're a one sees terrific, your deviation. Sounds good. You know. And it's interesting, too, that you were able to see so quickly. I talked about this a lot with your pump site or your insulin doing what you expect of it. And so is that how you Natalie saw right away that he shouldn't be loading the pump with so much insulin?
Natalie 41:13
Yeah, I was getting frustrated, because every three and a half days, suddenly he'd have a stuck on high. And we'd be walking, we'd be dosing so much insulin, and I was like, why does this suddenly doing this? What have we changed? and Stephen said he'd been filling his he'd been filling his reservoir more.
Scott Benner 41:33
Steven, what are you doing? You can't just go all like half cocked and do stuff by yourself. Obviously, Natalie needs to be brought into the decision making process. I mean, she's pretty much the brains of the operation. I'm, I'm getting that. Do you agree, Natalie? Are you in charge?
Natalie 41:50
There's a reason why I don't just grab his phone and do stuff. I feel like he should still be the one to always make the decisions because I don't have the background with diabetes. So there were certain things that I didn't know, like, I couldn't tell you how many units he would dose for anything. All I knew was carbs. And so I'm starting to get a feel for that I have two numbers that I use, and that's about it. But it's, I felt like there was more to it that I just hadn't. I didn't know because I wasn't touching the device. And I didn't want to, I guess infringe on his domain. for that. I wanted to give him respect.
Scott Benner 42:28
Yeah, of course. I mean, it is there it is diabetes, right. Like it's a there's got to be a line somewhere. Is there a line somewhere? Stephen, where you'd be like, hey, that's too much, or you just really comfortable with this setup?
Stephen 42:42
I'd have a lot of trust that I don't think it'll go too far. Yeah. I mean, sometimes if I'm not doing something, or if I'm busy, and really focused on something, then I'll just hand out my phone and say do it for me. But most of the time, it's it's a pretty good given take,
Scott Benner 42:59
Stephen. Tell me again, how old you were when you were diagnosed? Please.
Stephen 43:04
Gosh, that would be 20. I was 21. I think so you've never had,
Scott Benner 43:09
like a parent help you with this ever?
Stephen 43:13
No. It was, um, my mom took me to the endocrinologist office. Because I was home. I didn't have a car. But it was pretty much on my own. The endocrinologist knew I was technically minded. And so she was really she wanted me to get on the pump. But the insurance wouldn't let me get one for six months. Because they're stupid. Yeah, but my mom and dad haven't really, like done any insulin dosing or, or set changes or anything like that, like you have with. With Arden. What about
Scott Benner 43:51
when you were younger? Just in general, your parents very hands on with things like did you have a lot of parental involvement in your life that you were comfortable and happy to have?
Stephen 44:01
I would say that my parents are different in that a different enough in that my mom was the concerned parent and always wanted to help or do something for the kids when my dad was more like, let him fall. Let him bump their head, bounce back and be better for it. Yeah.
Scott Benner 44:20
You guys would understand. I imagine if we pulled 100 people, we don't have the obvious ability to do that. But if we pulled 100 people who had diabetes adults, I imagine some of them would think that this is incredibly not okay. And some people would think it's amazing. I would just think it's their experience one or the other. But I've seen people have that like, this is my diabetes. Don't tell me what to do. You know, I don't want help with it. I can see those people being like, oh, wow, it's it's strange that somebody is helping him and then I can see the exact opposite. You know, at the same time, people have struggled or just did General know that what a burden it is, and it can help I kind of don't see it. I see it the the ladder, I don't understand why it would be a problem. I mean, you, obviously, Steven, you can take care of yourself. And Natalie seems like she comes in and helps you when you know when you do the wrong thing, and you're pissing her off. And I think there's a real like, kind of genuine beauty to it. Do you imagine you'll do it like this forever?
Stephen 45:33
I imagine that at some point, the algorithm will take over. And neither of us will have to put nearly as much effort into it as we do now. But until that point, I don't see a problem of continuing as we are
Scott Benner 45:47
not least there wasn't an algorithm if it was just a pump, and it was on Stephen to count carbs. Do you think you'd be as involved?
Natalie 45:54
What? Well, when we switched from 670 G to prepping the Android APS algorithm, you had to go completely off auto mode, any kind of help any other than that, all right. And I think I was more involved in because I was scared. That was my first time. There was nothing that was going to help at night. I woke up every other hour. I think I didn't bother Steven. But I was just worried. I think it would have calmed down eventually, when I figured out how things worked. But I think my concern for the fact that there were no safety guards would make me more involved.
Scott Benner 46:33
Yeah. And have you ever I'm sorry to ask Have you ever lost like a close loved one? Or do you live with anxiety or anything like that? Or is this just the common sense concern because of the nature of the situation?
Natalie 46:45
I think it's a common sense concern. I mean, he can go into the 40s. And as long as I can see what's going on, and as long as we have some juice on hand, I'm fine. I've seen him go as low as the low 30s. And then I was really worried because that was one of the first times I'd seen him low. But now that it's happened a couple times, none 30s, of course, but now that he's gone low a few times, I've I'm just comfortable. But that doesn't take away my sense of responsibility, which is a very strong trait of mine.
Scott Benner 47:18
Yeah, no kidding.
Stephen 47:20
Do you still be quite concerned when I go into the 40s?
Natalie 47:24
Only if you're not coming up, especially if we're trying to go to sleep?
Unknown Speaker 47:28
Oh, yeah.
Stephen 47:29
That'd be the worst.
Scott Benner 47:30
Stephen, is it? Is it a common occurrence to get? Well, like that? We're lower?
Stephen 47:36
Um, no, we're tweaking a couple things on the algorithm to see if the Basal rates needed adjustment. So I have been, though, not in the 40s. But like close and maybe dipping in a little bit in the past, like couple days. But it hasn't been a common occurrence. Before this.
Scott Benner 47:58
I understand. Okay. Am I not asking you guys anything that I should be that I'm missing? Because I got really enamored with your situation. So I'm now forgetting Why the hell you came on. I like the whole time I'm talking. I'm like, I don't even care why they wanted to come on. This is fascinating. So I want to circle back around and make sure that I'm not, I'm gonna ask Natalie, because she seems like she she seems smarter than both of us, Steven, that way, is there anything we missed?
Natalie 48:28
Um, we originally I had sent you an email explaining how we handle carb counting when, or I guess dosing in general for food. When I don't cook the same thing all the time. Cool. I'm always switching it up. Though it's not too different. I think from the mentality that you have with a lot with just memorizing what you do eat, because you can just break it down more to ingredients. For the ones that you don't use very often, then you can just check the packaging or something. But what I do as I'm cooking, is, I start tallying up the total for the entire dish. So we were making pumpkin stuffed pasta the other day in a tomato sauce. So I looked at the jar for tomatoes and did the math that says how many servings are the container and how many carbs per serving. So just multiply those two together. And then I added the same thing for the pumpkin added the same thing for the pasta. And when we get done, when we start to eat, then whatever we pull out, you can see what portion of the dish that was. So like it was a six that time. Yeah, it's even put on his plate. So it's like okay, well, the total for the entire dish was I think it was like 437 carbs. So this one particular serving is this many carbs, but it's also high fat so that we're going to treat it like pizza. So over four hours, expect this amount of carbs to enter your system.
Scott Benner 49:58
I can tell you that when I'm putting Making this certain pasta for Arden, I have to put it in a certain bowl. And then I know how much insulin she needs for it. If you put it in a flatter bowl where it kind of like settles more, I look at it and I don't know what to do it because I don't even pay attention to the scooping. I just I know when it's in this bowl, and it kind of looks like this. This is 45 carbs. I don't know how I got to that point. Exactly. But it's a it's a really valuable it and to be able to be the person who's making the concoction and knows everything that's in it. I imagine you get pretty close on the carbs.
Natalie 50:41
Yeah, one big one carb awful change seven by five points. So we try to get it pretty exact. And I think we get it within within five grams a lot of time.
Scott Benner 50:52
Wow. He's that he's really sensitive to the insulin. I'm going to talk about you like you're not here now. Stephen. Go ahead.
Unknown Speaker 51:00
Thank you.
Natalie 51:02
Yeah, especially when we have regularly been exercising, that makes a huge difference. Yeah, on how he responds to food and insulin. And if we just miss exercising, like we tried to do it every other day. And if we just missed for a week, then all of a sudden his Basal rate drops. food makes him spike even harder. But yeah, for the most part, carbs especially we keep a we give him sugar by the half teaspoon, to get him bring him up when he's low.
Scott Benner 51:39
I am imagining then that he just basically has ratios that are their exercise, they ratios and non exercise they ratios. We're working on that.
Natalie 51:50
We may we're testing out a feature of Android APS, where you can just change the percent of the profile that you're using. So he's on his regular profile right now at 95%. So it's lowered the insulin needs by 5%. For everything across the board.
Scott Benner 52:06
It is interesting how different people think about it. Like I just, I just lie about the carbs to myself, basically. Do you know what I mean? Like I'll I'll say okay, this is this, this meals nine units, because it's probably about so many carbs. So I'll just pretend it's 20 less carbs. And then I'll do that. I, but you want it to be like a setting. And I don't think either is right or wrong. I just think it's interesting how people's like different people's brains want things to be and how it makes it easier for them. I just want to leave a note for myself right here. For my editing that I think I want to call this episode. Everybody needs a Natalie. So anyway, let's just strong strong contender right now Steven, just in case you're wondering, your name doesn't even get to go into it. So Natalie, are you? If you don't mind getting off the diabetes for half a second? Do you ever worry that you care too much about other people? Because I do sometimes about myself. That's why I'm asking you.
Natalie 53:12
I do for the reason that you sighted of people not wanting to help. So I think I get a good
Scott Benner 53:19
deal. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off, please.
Natalie 53:22
I think I get apologetic. But I still can't stop trying to help. Which is probably a problem. Because then I'm apologizing and still doing it at the same time.
Scott Benner 53:34
Stephens like Yo man, shut up.
Stephen 53:39
What do you do? definitely have a strong sense of responsibility on her side in her. Yeah. does it translate to be like, no, don't worry, it's not your problem. Whatever this thing is,
Scott Benner 53:51
Stephen does that does that feeling of responsibility? does it translate beyond you?
Stephen 53:57
I would say it's embedded in everything that Natalie does.
Scott Benner 54:02
Natalie wants you to go to see a therapist and report back to me and find out why this is I don't care if you're like this. And by the way, I just won't understand it better. It's a you can't point to anything in your life. And like how young Do you remember feeling like this?
Natalie 54:19
And Girl Scouts in early elementary school. I know. Somebody had to do something that was not pleasant. I don't remember what it was. But the first thing that popped into my head was if I do this, none of my friends have to do this.
Scott Benner 54:36
Hmm. take you on fear factor. That lead that cockroach. I went to $50,000 eat the cockroach.
Natalie 54:45
I've gotten out of doing that before I was supposed to eat a rhinoceros beetle.
Scott Benner 54:48
Whoa, slow down. Where did that happen?
Natalie 54:52
A college group we were playing a game where it What if your name was drawn you had to do something and they drew all the ahead of time, and somebody came up to me and said, Natalie, you're allergic to shellfish, right? I can't eat fish shellfish, you're fine. But I didn't want to. We weren't having either at the time. So I was like, it doesn't matter. Yeah, I'm allergic. So she went away. And I found out that got me out of eating a rhinoceros beetle. Because if you have shellfish allergies, you can't eat bugs.
Scott Benner 55:19
What kind of reasonable college lunatics? Were you around that they were double checking on people's allergies before eating beetles? That's those two things are in Congress. You understand that? Right? Seriously? Like we're gonna do something crazy, but first, let's double check and make sure it's gonna be safe. No one does that. You guys live in a different you're lying to me about where you live. You're in a magical land floating 20 feet off the ground somewhere where none of us get to go. That's so Oh, God. So no beetle eating for you. Stevens you ever eat anything weird?
Stephen 56:02
Not that I can recall specifically. There's probably been some concoction of condiments or something that college that people shoved together and said, Hey, drink this.
Scott Benner 56:13
You know, in the back of my mind, I was hoping you said I ate some Japanese food once when I was like Steven, pull this together. Do it for me. Come on.
Stephen 56:24
Yeah, that that does bring to mind. We have eaten some pretty weird Japanese food.
Scott Benner 56:29
If you want to try this again. Steven, do you ever eat anything weird?
Stephen 56:33
Yeah, there's a Japanese dish called Shikoku. are sure sure? Oh.
Unknown Speaker 56:39
Yes. Oh, cool.
Unknown Speaker 56:40
Yeah.
Scott Benner 56:42
Jesus. Natalie, where did that come from? Do you speak Japanese too?
Natalie 56:47
Definitely, not only a little bit my a few of my good friends live in Japan.
Scott Benner 56:54
And we only scratched the surface about you to what is going What else do you do? Are you like international spies? Anything? Like? Wow, if you are you wouldn't be able to tell me. I think Stephen is that like, do you have any favorite cooking shows? Because I love chef show on Netflix.
Natalie 57:13
We don't have cable but I used to watch good eats a lot because I loved the food science.
Unknown Speaker 57:18
Why don't you have cable?
Stephen 57:22
Too expensive. Not enough to watch.
Scott Benner 57:27
You guys come back on every week until I feel satisfied that I understand everything about you, please. You don't have Netflix. We do. We do. Okay, I told you. This is on Netflix now. Ah, your listening skills are deteriorating. I found a chink in your armor. Okay.
Stephen 57:43
No, no, no. Too much laughing.
Scott Benner 57:44
Is she apologizing? Right? Are you Do you mean that where you apologize? Don't apologize to me, please. If you're feeling that way? No, seriously, it's john fabbro. The like the movie director. And oh, god, I can't think of a chef that does this show with him. But I just enjoy. I enjoyed the chef's show. So there you go. Try it. See what you think. You probably like, I'll get a note in the mail. You're an idiot. You don't understand cooking. Your hand delivered. Like it'll be handwritten. And it'll come with a stamp and everything. And then that'll make me wonder like, why didn't Natalie mail that not email it?
Unknown Speaker 58:19
How did she get my address?
Scott Benner 58:21
Yeah. How well did you hear what happened? Do you follow me on the media so that our social.
Natalie 58:27
I am very bad at the social type medias.
Scott Benner 58:29
Me too. But someone sent me a gift to my house. And it was food. And it was amazing. Like they were like, I guess people would just call them cake pops. But it was like this chocolate stuff dipped in this vanilla. Chocolate. They were so good. And they got to the house. And I'm like, how that what are like How the hell did this end up at my house? Like who? Like so somebody figured out my address and sent me food. And I was like, Well, I'm obviously not going to eat this because a stranger sent me food that I opened it up and I was like, Huh, I was like Kelly try one of these. Like, 20 minutes later, she seemed Okay, so we ate them. They were really delicious. And then we found the person who sent them, who was really very kind and was just trying to say thank you for the podcast and I said to her, just send money next time. You really don't need to do this. And for everybody else, please don't try to figure out my address because you're creeped me out and I'll stop doing this podcast. Now somebody's gonna be like, that's how I get them to stop. But anyway, um I don't remember the point of what I was saying. No, I feel like Natalie's disappointed in me.
Natalie 59:48
We're talking about cooking shows. Ah, I don't remember. Or judgmental letter being sent directly to your house.
Scott Benner 59:55
See, I thought of mail and then I thought a food being sent to me and I'm a guest This is what ADHD looks like. I don't know. Very cool. What else about about meals Natalie's important to you, as far as you can tell about understanding how to like really decide about how many carbs are in things.
Natalie 1:00:14
Um, chunky things are a pain. So I'm talking pre mixed salads, we usually I've started just mixing individual bowls at a time, if any of the carb stuff goes into Stevens bowl only not into the entire salad and then divided into Stephens plate. Just it's too difficult all the curvy stuff goes to the bottom, and then he'll go low until the last meal, and then he'll go high. So those are frustrating soups I have. soups are also difficult if they're chunky, I really have no tips for that we just figure it out. But for things that are oddly shaped, were actually looking at the portion of the plate might be odd or something like spirally, pastas and stuff, they link together in certain ways where it's never going to be even then I actually just weigh the entire dish portion. Steven takes what he wants. And then we weigh the entire dish again and said, Oh, you had this proportion of it. Okay, that we do use the scale quite a lot actually.
Scott Benner 1:01:20
Have it was interesting that you just said like the carbee stuff falls to the bottom of the salad, meaning he eats it less even. Can you not just take your fork and like pasta salad every once in a while while you're eating it? Oh, I mean, the serving bowl. Oh, in the bowl, like it falls to the bottom you're saying? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So he gets to it later. And then the insulin hits him too hard. And he hasn't had any of the carbs.
Natalie 1:01:42
No. So we'll, I'll make more dishes at once. Like, let's say I'll make two meals worth of food for the two of us. So I would say I tossed the entire salad in a big bowl, the mixing bowl, okay, and then we get our food from that. But Tomorrow's Meal is what has all the carbs because that fell to the bottom. Okay, does that make more sense? Guys? I
Scott Benner 1:02:05
did. I wasn't falling. But I do now that makes total sense. Natalie, can I make a suggestion and this is not a learned suggestion meeting. I'm not a smoker, but I would love to see you get a little high and then try to guess carbs for a meal? Because I feel like you're alright. Are we a type A personality? Natalie?
Natalie 1:02:25
Um, that means everything has to be exact. Right? Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:02:28
Yeah. Something like that. Like, are you shooting for perfection a lot outside of diabetes as well as inside? Yeah, yeah. I want you to try to guess a couple meals. Would it kill you?
Natalie 1:02:39
I have, whenever we go out to eat or something like that? I do. That
Scott Benner 1:02:43
doesn't work.
Natalie 1:02:44
Um, I can get close. There are some where it's a complete guess. So we tend to guess low if we're far from supplemental carbs, or guess high if we have x?
Scott Benner 1:03:00
Yeah, that makes sense. And it works out mainly.
Natalie 1:03:03
Yeah. We really only measure when we're at home because it's there. So why not? Like we had some maple kettle corn last night. And well, we have to pour it into the boy anyway, if we're going to be sitting on opposite ends of the room. So let's just put Stephens bowl on the scale. He pours what he wants, okay, we have the grams. It's this many carbs.
Scott Benner 1:03:29
Why do you sit on the opposite ends of the room?
Natalie 1:03:32
We were playing some we were playing Dungeons and Dragons online. You probably
Unknown Speaker 1:03:38
should have left that out probably the podcast, I'm thinking.
Stephen 1:03:43
There's a good set of friends that we play with.
Scott Benner 1:03:45
So you were online gaming. So you weren't near each other literally. So there wouldn't be interference with microphones?
Natalie 1:03:52
Yeah, although that, so we'll often sit on the opposite sides of the room. I should say last night, we did not we were at the same table. But then we just use Stephens mic, because it's not as exact.
Scott Benner 1:04:04
Okay, so people can shut the podcast off right now if they want to, but I'm gonna keep asking questions. I've never played Dungeons and Dragons. I have a loose understanding of how it's played, like in person in a board situation. But how does it get played online?
Natalie 1:04:24
There's software that mimics the board. So you have a grid and little tokens that they're just drawing so they put on there, it's actually easier than on the table because then all the math is done for you.
Scott Benner 1:04:36
Okay. Steven, are you aware or worried that Natalie could probably cheat on you and you'd have to let it go because of your diabetes care? you'd just be like, Ah, that was horrible. But she is really good at figuring out my carbs. So like, do you see Do you see what I'm saying? Like she could probably like that. She probably had has more leeway than you do, don't you think? Like relationshipy? She brings a lot of tables when I'm saying,
Stephen 1:05:07
yes, you decision does. I think that I think that we're close enough that I don't have to worry about that. So yeah. But if something like that were to happen, then there would be some definite counseling and reconciliation needed to happen.
Scott Benner 1:05:25
No kidding. Seems to be in an office like, Listen, I am very willing to let this go. Natalie, I'm trying to empower you here. I think you could probably take a couple $100 out of the bank account. Nobody would say a word you know, I'm saying. Call it payment for understanding how many carbs are in food. You guys are so nice. You're freaking me out. I'm not certain if it says something about you. I think it's just something about me. I can't like I am having a hard time accepting that. How kind you seem. What do you think, Natalie? What do you think that means?
Unknown Speaker 1:06:02
Hmm.
Natalie 1:06:06
I think Stephen and I are in unusual match. Like I said, I keep questioning how this worked out so well. So I don't think you're crazy.
Scott Benner 1:06:17
I'm definitely seeing something right.
Natalie 1:06:21
Yeah, but why can't boys telling us to get together for this reason?
Scott Benner 1:06:25
Why can't I accept that? Not only, like, What's wrong with me?
Stephen 1:06:30
I don't know. you've interviewed nice people before. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:06:33
I don't understand them either.
Stephen 1:06:37
I guess that doesn't No,
Scott Benner 1:06:38
no, no, there's no, listen. I'm I think I'm a nice person. Do you agree with that from listening? Yes. Yeah. But there's, I don't know what it is like there's, it's not maybe your actions as much as it is? tone? Or, like, Am I just reading nice is not sarcastic. I can't decide. My, my head hurts from this. Like, I really, I don't know what's wrong. I feel like there's something incredibly wrong with me. I feel like I'm also inviting 1000 emails of you people telling me what you think is wrong with me? Would you trust me? Just send cakepops if you're gonna do that, okay. But But, but no, I mean, it's I don't know if it's some cultural if its geographic. I can't I can't decide what it is. But I don't know to people like you. Like, like, I seriously don't, I know really kind people. But you know, 20 seconds doesn't go by without them saying something beard sarcastic, you know, to me.
Stephen 1:07:44
A fun side story related to that. I'm actually born and raised in Baltimore, Maryland. And my sister went to college in Jackson, Mississippi, and on orientation day or something. When she was getting into her dorm, she met another new student, and said, Hi, how's it going? Or whatever she said, and at some point in the conversation that came up, were, you know, where are you from? And they said, You're, you're from Maryland, but you're from the north, and you're nice. So it's probably just a family thing that we've got going on.
Scott Benner 1:08:23
No kidding. I don't imagine there's just like a magical line that when you get beyond it, you change. Right. Although maybe the race I think that's right.
Stephen 1:08:33
You get into the more changes. dense, dense population you're saying? Yeah, like all the all the big cities seem to have less? Less allowance for others, I think. How do
Scott Benner 1:08:47
you think you'd fare in that situation? Natalie be dead in a week because she tried
Unknown Speaker 1:08:53
Yeah, I don't think I would like it too much. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:56
Natalie, you would just you would, you'd short circuit.
Natalie 1:08:59
I feel really bad. Every time I'm in the north. I tried to smile and wave at people and open doors and stuff. And they don't seem to enjoy it.
Scott Benner 1:09:05
Now. They need you to get the hell out of their way. They're going somewhere. I'm a I'm a I say hello to people when I make eye contact with them a lot. And it it sometimes it you're shocked by how shocked they are, you know, but I'm comfortable here. I like the pace. And as a matter of fact, like if I've ever gone on a vacation, like a quiet, calm place where everybody's just super kind. It makes me feel odd for days. It takes me a long time to get accustomed to it. Like I don't understand why people aren't in a hurry. Like what like you don't I mean, like, after somebody says thank you or like the third time like Oh, I get it. You're nice. Let it go. Do you think what would happen? Let me paint a picture for you. Your children come out. They're super athletic, and not nice.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:02
Don't want to play Dungeons and Dragons. And they they're like, Ah, she's always trying to help me. What will you do?
Natalie 1:10:11
Let them scrape their knees and stuff.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:12
Yeah, I don't know. I
Natalie 1:10:13
think I'd I imagined that I'm not going to be the worried parent. I might try to help a lot. But I think my mentality is kids want you to be engaged in what they want. But you should leave them alone. And let them be independent whenever they want to try like you didn't give them a warning, but I feel like they'd resent you if you interfere too much.
Scott Benner 1:10:39
She's Sally, you got that right to what the heck. Stephen, would you like win a lottery? Did you find a genie bottle? Let's right now I'm talking to Steven Natalie. You'd be quiet. Do you find like a bottle and there was a genie in it? What happened? Like what did you do? Did you did you save like an airplane full of people from dying? Like, why are you being paid back?
Unknown Speaker 1:11:03
I don't know. God, I think God was just kind to me.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:07
That's it.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:09
That's what you're going with. Just
Stephen 1:11:16
now, I've been really blessed especially.
Scott Benner 1:11:19
Okay, now I can't listen, man. I can't argue with you. I think that your scenario is is is lovely. And it's I'm assuming there are a lot of people with diabetes right now listening. The adults are thinking I wish somebody would help me with all this or even just be interested enough to want to understand it. And to put the effort in. You know, and that's really all you're doing that like this isn't overwhelming your life I imagine.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:45
No, no.
Scott Benner 1:11:47
Steven it but it is making your life easier.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:51
For sure. Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:11:52
What do you do to make Natalie's life easier? Here? I'm going to get you guys know a fight. I bet you don't do anything. You're a guy. Good Natalie. He's not trying hard enough, right?
Natalie 1:12:00
Oh, he does so much. Not.
Scott Benner 1:12:03
Okay. What's he do?
Natalie 1:12:06
Um, whatever. I'm not feeling well, which is a regular cycle. I'm sure you understand.
Scott Benner 1:12:11
I get the pun.
Natalie 1:12:13
cure of everything. one weekend, we were supposed to make sausage from scratch, like grind the meetup stuff in and add the spices stuff in the case. Of course
Unknown Speaker 1:12:21
you are keep going. And it
Natalie 1:12:23
kicked in right before the hard part. And I couldn't do anything. I just I had to go lay down on the couch and Steven took care of the whole hour long process of stuffing the sausage twisting it off. For me. He didn't complain he was still willing to make stuff later. Same with him going to the store for me. I could go on about students. Go ahead.
Stephen 1:12:49
Like getting medicine and stuff. I'm like, No, you're my wife. I'm taking care of you. Be quiet.
Scott Benner 1:12:54
I'm having trouble holding back what Arden calls that when her when her period comes because I feel like it's inappropriate. And you'll judge much. But I'm just gonna say it. I feel like what's wrong and should be like my hooch exploded?
Natalie 1:13:15
For me, it hurts about that bad.
Scott Benner 1:13:17
Yeah, it feels like that. And and he just jumps right in. Yeah.
Natalie 1:13:25
Super fast to handle anything for me. If I try to get up and do something, he'll come back over and gently push on my shoulder. That's it's kind of a joke. It's not like he's controlling me or anything like that. That's how he indicates now you
Scott Benner 1:13:41
do anything? Yeah, I'll take care of it. Jesus, I've even thrown in a couple of inappropriate sexual references here and neither of you've picked up on them.
Natalie 1:13:50
I picked up on it. But I'm so bad at responding to those.
Scott Benner 1:13:53
Yeah. I was really hard for me not to say anything when you said he finished stuffing the sausage and twisting them off. I couldn't say I literally we'd be in a completely different direction right now if I just allowed myself to go there. And nobody be listen. You know what I think nobody be listening. But I think people we like Finally, Scott's gonna get dirty on this podcast. But I got kids listening, so I'm stuck. I'm already feeling bad about saying it. But you know me little kids. Listen to the show. Yeah, killing me. I would love to curse more. But I think I'd lose a pretty large segment of my. So here I am. I know I'd lose the Mormons. which as you know, if you listen is a huge part of my listening audience. For some reason I'm huge in Utah. Do you know this?
Natalie 1:14:37
Actually, I didn't. We must have missed this. The podcasts that indicated that. Well,
Scott Benner 1:14:41
you get back and keep listening. I would prefer if you binge, please don't jump around.
Stephen 1:14:47
I think we're back in August at the moment.
Scott Benner 1:14:50
This year, it is really cool that you guys listen together. It seriously is because I know there are a lot of people who struggle with this. You know, I'm trying to get my spouse to listen. I'm trying To get them on board with what I'm doing, they won't listen. I did somebody told me the other day after explaining to me over and over again, how much time and worry and stress and anxiety is coming from diabetes management, I said, well, just listen to these, like 20 episodes, I think you'll really be, you know, find a benefit from them. And the person answering back and said, I don't have time for that. And I was like, I feel like you don't not have time for it. Like, how could you? How could you tell me how much time you're giving away all the time to these confusions? And and I'm telling you, it's very possible that the answers here, and I don't know it didn't make sense to me. You don't I mean?
Natalie 1:15:44
Yeah, we listen, because we listen to so many podcasts we listen on, Stephen, what time speed is it to?
Stephen 1:15:52
Well, it depends on the podcast, but most of them are double speed.
Scott Benner 1:15:55
How do I sound double speed?
Natalie 1:15:59
pretty normal. Like you sound like you talk fast. Whereas right now, which is one of the maybe three times I've heard you at one time speed. You sound not unreasonably slower, but it's I would consider it slow speech.
Scott Benner 1:16:14
Wow, that's interesting, because I speak really quickly compared to most people. But you guys have sped up so much. You're like teaching yourself to hear it differently.
Natalie 1:16:24
Yeah, it scared me when I first heard Stephen listening on two times speed to anything like what is going on?
Scott Benner 1:16:31
Alright, listen, I'm gonna ask this then we're gonna go. Okay. What's the distinction here? How do I categorize you guys? Are you dorks geeks? nerds? Where would you put yourself in? None of those things. I don't mean anything derogatory. I'm just trying to figure like your coding, and, and making sausages and and you're so nice. Like, how do you think of yourself? there? That's my question. Forget everything I just said, Natalie. If I asked you to describe yourself, describe yourself and then Steven, you describe yourself
Unknown Speaker 1:17:06
an awkward nerd.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:07
Okay, Steven.
Stephen 1:17:10
I think we've had this discussion before Natalie and I the difference between nerd and geek I would consider myself a geek, probably.
Scott Benner 1:17:19
Okay. Now, Steven, how do you how would you describe Natalie? She cracked awkward nerd.
Stephen 1:17:29
I would say I wouldn't use any of those words. I just say smart. Okay. But slightly awkward. Possibly.
Scott Benner 1:17:38
I thought he was gonna say beautiful butterfly. Not like But okay, Natalie. Now you described? Yes,
Stephen 1:17:42
there's that too. That's just assumed.
Scott Benner 1:17:44
I'm trying to help. Obviously, that right, those words are gone. And we just know that not only is he right about him himself. How do you see him?
Natalie 1:17:54
Let's see. You just said beak. Steven. That was it.
Stephen 1:17:59
You can add as much as you want. Don't worry.
Natalie 1:18:04
He is about right. But yeah, I guess it would The only thing I might add would be maybe passionate,
Scott Benner 1:18:18
passionate geek. Now what's a geek and what's a nerd?
Natalie 1:18:24
The only thing I have is that dictionary quote that I don't know where it came from where a geek is a person who goes as far as to bite off chicken heads for an audience's amusement. But
Scott Benner 1:18:35
I think we know why you're a nerd badly. I think you just made that completely clear. All right, I'm gonna look and see if there's like a real definite, I know the definition of like, I know what you're saying.
Natalie 1:18:48
I thought yeah, I always thought of nerd as more maybe scientifically data minded or something like that. versus a geek, which is which can get it more into maybe media fat, like books and series and stuff like that. Like Steven loves sci fi. On sci fi.
Scott Benner 1:19:14
So, alright, so dictionary you know.com has geek as an unfashionable or socially inept person. does that fit you Steven?
Stephen 1:19:26
I definitely don't pay attention to fashion. Yeah. And I have been not the best adapted social situations. But that's, that's been a thing. I've gotten better at.
Scott Benner 1:19:37
Okay. a verb geek engage in or discuss computer related tasks. Is that so kind of geek out i guess is where that is. And now it says nerd is a foolish or contemptible person who lacks social skills boringly studious.
Natalie 1:19:54
I mean, we've picked only derogatory terms.
Scott Benner 1:19:57
I don't even know what listen Thank you. If you didn't ask me to describe myself because I wouldn't, I'd have not the first idea of what to say. But but these are, but you don't, you're using these things in more colloquial ways. You're not thinking of them as like really definable ways. Right? So so to you nerd is a little more technical and geek is a little more whimsical.
Natalie 1:20:21
That was my opinion.
Scott Benner 1:20:22
Yeah, that's what I thought. So
Stephen 1:20:24
yeah, the definition. There is socially awkward and unintelligent, but single minded person obsessed with a non social, non social hobby or pursuit. And geek is a digital technology expert or enthusiast, and a person who has existed leucism before and some expertise about a specialized subject or activity. That's pretty, I would definitely say that she's the nerd. And I'm the geek with those definitions. Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:20:49
And so your Stephanie became a nerd about the diabetes. Are you diabetes, Natalie, Stephanie, Natalie, excuse me, I'm sorry. You know, what happens to sometimes I look up, I see both of your names at the same time, and I must, I must really have, like an issue that I'm not aware of. Because I sometimes I am literally blending your names when I don't mean to.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:13
hope that makes sense.
Scott Benner 1:21:14
Yeah. Natalie, do you? Do you feel like that, like a diabetes nerd?
Natalie 1:21:18
Um, diabetes nerd cooking nerd? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:21
Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:21:22
No kidding. Do you get really into stuff when you start it?
Natalie 1:21:26
Yes. Very?
Scott Benner 1:21:29
Do you let it go then? Or do you just like add it to an arsenal of things that you're really into?
Unknown Speaker 1:21:35
Um,
Natalie 1:21:36
I think I go into it now with the mentality of I am going to let this go after a while, because it's just not sustainable. with diabetes, though. While we were dating, we were dating fairly intentionally we were looking for are we going to get married? Or are we not? And if we're not, we should just break this off now. So that was the mentality for dating. And it seemed It was 30. I didn't want to keep them dating me for too long if it wasn't gonna work out. But yeah, with diabetes, it was different. Because if we were going to get married, this was not a short term thing. So I didn't go into that with the mentality of discarding it. And worst case, I know more about diabetes, if I ever run into somebody else with it. Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:22:22
All right. You guys are delightful. I really appreciate you doing this. I feel like I could go on forever asking you questions about things that I don't understand about the world and they feel like you have answers about, but I think I've held you long enough. So in fairness to you, I'm going to say thank you ask you if you have any closing thoughts and and let you go back to your life. Oh,
Natalie 1:22:47
thank you for having us on. Um, closing thought is we have to get some breakfast because Stephen was rising and dosed for a bit of it a little while ago since we went over.
Scott Benner 1:22:57
I'm sorry, Stephen. Better than that walk. You guys went on that time. What is for breakfast Natalie real quick.
Natalie 1:23:06
Um, I made some milk bread. I have a sourdough starter that I maintain. So homemade bread. And then we have blackberry jam that I made apple butter that I also made. And I'd probably have a little bit of scrambled eggs with some herb sauce.
Scott Benner 1:23:23
I just wanted to say if some sourdough bread show up at my house, I would not be upset about that. Seriously, Steven, what about you? Is there anything you want to close with?
Stephen 1:23:34
I'm just as long as you pay attention to a diabetes isn't, doesn't have to rule your life. And if you find a helper then it's 10 times easier.
Scott Benner 1:23:47
If that's a good message. You guys are really terrific. I hope you have a whole bunch of little like dorky babies that you can really get along with. And that one of them doesn't just be like turn into a football player because I can see the both of you just in the stands going like Oh crap, how did this happen?
Stephen 1:24:05
It could happen My brother is a foot and a half taller than me and like 100 pounds heavier. See,
Scott Benner 1:24:09
see and you'll just be in the stands going like, ah, I tried so hard. He doesn't care about anything we care about. It's just and I don't know. I just don't I hope it's gonna happen. But I don't wish it so seriously. You guys were terrific. I really appreciate you doing this. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yep, have a great day. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. g Vogue glucagon. Find out more about chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box, you spell that? g VOKEGL. You see ag o n.com forward slash juicebox. And also like to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and remind you that there's a ton of great stuff to learn at Contour Next one.com forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast comm to these and all the sponsors of the show.
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#473 Sneaking Food
The Psychology of Type 1
Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss sneaking food and constructive ways to prevent it. http://erikaforsyth.com
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 473 of the Juicebox Podcast.
Today, Erica forsyte this back. You know Erica, she's the licensed Marriage and Family Therapist from California. She's been on the show a number of times, and she's here today to talk with me about how to address sneaking of food. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.
California residents if you're looking for a therapist, look no further than Erica forsyth.com. I'd like to remind you that if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes or the defining diabetes episodes, they are right here in your podcast player. But you can also find them at Juicebox Podcast calm or diabetes pro tip calm. If you're listening in a podcast player, please hit subscribe or follow. Thank you very much. The T one D exchange is looking for type one adults and type one caregivers who are us residents to participate in a quick survey that can be completed in just a few moments from your computer or phone. This survey is 100% anonymous, completely HIPAA compliant, and does not require you to ever see a doctor or go to a remote site. Why you say what a survey require that? Well, because this data is actually helping people living with type one diabetes, and I wouldn't want you to get confused and think oh, this is a trial. I might have to go see a doctor, huh? No, no, you can actually help people with type one without being in a trial. And without visiting a physician. You just go to T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. Click on join our registering now, and then simply complete the survey. Once you've done that, your information, which again is completely anonymous, will be used to help other people living with Type One Diabetes and it supports the podcast. Past participants like you have helped to bring increased coverage for test strips, Medicare coverage for CGM, and have brought changes in the ABA guidelines for pediatric a one c goals. And I'm excited to imagine what your participation may lead to T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. There's also a link in the show notes at Juicebox. Podcast comm a bunch of people who listened to the show sent in questions for you. And you distilled them down into topics. Is that fair? Yes. Okay. Great. Great. And so as I'm looking at them here and trying to decide where to start, I feel like I want to start with sneaking food. Are you comfortable with that?
Unknown Speaker 3:18
Absolutely.
Scott Benner 3:18
Okay. I am at a, I'll just say that I'm at a loss when people ask this question of me. And it does get asked of me a ton. You know, Mike, I don't know what to do. And I'll tell you what, it's almost heartbreaking. Because it usually ends up being these people who have figured out they think they've got it all figured out. And then they keep seeing these like anomaly type blood sugars, and they kill themselves. Maybe it's the basil, maybe I didn't Bolus the meal at lunch, right? And it's protein coming. And they really they just they're killing themselves trying to figure out what it is. And then one day they realize that their kids are eating innopolis thing for it. And it's um, it seems heartbreaking when it happens to them to the parent, you know, but I want to understand I mean, obviously I want to let you talk your way through it but I feel like what we want to understand here for the parents perspective is why does this happen? And how do you work through it? Does that make sense?
Unknown Speaker 4:20
Yes the why and then the house okay
Scott Benner 4:22
yes great. So I mean go What do you think
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:26
first of all, I think removing type one out of the equation this can happen in you know with children and teens anyway. of sneaking food but with looking at it through the lens of type one. I would consider has it become has a certain what type of food are they sneaking Is it is it just sweets? Is it crackers? You know what is has a food group in your house become known as bad or forbidden? And is that what the what your child sneaking. Okay. So are they, they're feeling like oh my gosh, I'm not supposed to eat candy. And that's just eat crackers, whatever it is, I would want to examine, has it become a forbidden fruit sort of speak in your household? And is that why the child is seeking it? Because they know they're not supposed to have it? And, and really just looking at, okay, why? Why has that? If that is the case? Why has that become forbidden? Is it because you don't feel comfortable? bolusing for it, is it that your child just you cannot figure it out, and your child reacts in a certain way? So I would look at is it? Is it something that they have learned, or they've been told that they're not supposed to have it? And that implies, like some excitement around maybe it's like, they don't really even care, but it's exciting to sneak it. And so that's kind of I would look at that is those first two things? Is it? Is it forbidden? And maybe they're getting some kind of emotional response out of it to?
Unknown Speaker 6:05
Go ahead?
Scott Benner 6:06
Is it not possible that it could have become forbidden by mistake? Meaning maybe the kid has seen you have some weird reaction to a number at some point. And you've said like, Oh, this, you know, cereal? Always does this? And then maybe they think, well, I don't want to put that on my parents.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:26
Yes. And I think they're trying to avoid maybe any shame that has been, like placed on them by accident. Or, you know, gosh, I when I eat this cereal, and I go high, and then mom or dad gets frustrated or angry. And maybe they're not frustrated or angry with me, but they're angry at the number, but it's pretty common then for the child to internalize. I've been a bad kid. I've been a bad, whatever. I've made bad choices. I'm not supposed to eat this food. I don't want mom and dad to be angry. I don't want to see that number. So I'm just going to sneak it and pretend like it didn't happen. And then to avoid the shame, but then we know that you know, shame can just creep in and grow. So yes, I think it can happen by accident. Absolutely. Not necessarily just by like clear, don't eat this food ever write statements.
Scott Benner 7:23
So what you just said made me think of one thing. And I have a second question. But then Couldn't it be possible that adults living with type one who have no one watching them? Like you're not even like a spouse? Like somebody that's there could end up in some odd way stealing food from themselves by not bolusing for it? Is that the same problem? Like I do you see what I'm saying? Like if you know that this Bolus is going to go poorly. Is it easier to just like say, well screw it, I'm just going to eat this anyway. And I'll deal with it later. Rather than put myself as a scenario where I make a Bolus, it doesn't work. And then the whole thing feels like a failure throughout.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:00
Yes, I would say yeah, and there's a lot of right, there's a lot of steps that you're going through in your mind. And it may be just becomes a pattern to behavior, where I somehow have either learned or establish this pattern in my life, where if I eat this certain food, whatever it is, I can never get it right. I'm just going to eat it. And then I'm going to figure it out later, I'm going to try and correct it later. Or I'm just going to avoid the whole thing. And just move on without my day. And then you're running high. And you kind of go to the next thing, right? So I think even as adults, you can if as a kid, you have learned that you weren't supposed to eat a certain food group. And this, this happened for me for sure. As a child, 30 years ago, I wasn't allowed to eat sweets. And so of course, I snuck them. And then in that pattern, I became like, it became shameful to eat. And then the other issue that I think is maybe ask answering the question, why is that maybe as a child or even as an adult, you've been eating a cookie in public, and maybe some kind of peripheral friends or peers or colleagues know you're diabetic? And they say, Are you allowed to eat that? I mean, this happens to me still. And it depending on how I want to respond, I'll just say yep. And keep going. Or if I feel like I want to give a response, I'll explain how I can eat it. But that can if you're hearing that question all the time, particularly as a child who might not have all the development, developmental, you know, ability to kind of process through Yes, I can eat it and it's okay. They're not trying to shame me.
Unknown Speaker 9:47
That happens and so you that you then feel like oh my gosh, am I supposed to have this? Why does everyone keep asking if I can have this?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:53
So forget it. I'm not going to eat it in public. I'm going to go hide this and ate it in my room.
Scott Benner 9:57
So So shame Right is, in this scenario, the diabetes, like the function of the diabetes and how it impacts blood sugar gets commingled, it gets melded with who you are. And that's why you feel shameful about it. Is that I mean, yes, because I hear people all the time talking about, especially like old time type ones, they're very careful to warn people about not conflating you with your diabetes. And I've always understood, like, I've always felt like, I've understood that, but in this specific scenario, I can see now as you're discussing it, where the impact comes in, if I am my diabetes, then the failure of my insulin use is a failure of me. This all gets pulled together into one thing, and therefore, I'd rather not have this experience even for myself, but I but also not let somebody from the outside see it.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:02
Yes. And and then equating, if you're saying, Okay, and then I'm bad. I'm a bad person, not even just even a bad diabetic. Yeah, I'm a bad person. If I've eaten this cookie, and I didn't Bolus correctly and now I'm 300. And I, I'm a terrible person.
Scott Benner 11:21
And inside in your brain and your psyche, there's no difference between that number and you at that point.
Unknown Speaker 11:26
Correct. Correct. And so
Scott Benner 11:28
when you hear somebody who loves a person whose, by the way, is sneaking food the right way to say it? I'm not usually the word police. But is, is that? I guess it really is. Right? It's
Unknown Speaker 11:40
it's eating? Well, I
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:40
think Bolus Yes. Yeah, I think eating without bolusing is one thing. But if you're doing it, or even bolusing correctly, but if you're doing it in a way that you you're taking food, and either you're actually physically hiding while eating, which I know happens. Or you're sneaking it without kind of if you are under that's I'm thinking from more from the lens of like a child, and you're eating something without disclosing it. Which sounds so terrible, right? Like without saying, Hey, Mom, I want Hey, Dad, I want to have this apple. So are you sneaking it? I guess it just that it's a tough? Yeah, eating without your eating without bolusing. But then I think there is a category for you actually are sneaking the food, hiding it because you've you've learned and you're hiding and you've learned and you feel like you weren't supposed to eat it. So you're going to hide it hide it
Scott Benner 12:36
you for a moment, if we take a side shoot here for a second, if we take diabetes out of this for a second. People sneak food, right?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:44
Absolutely. I mean, particularly if like, let's say you're on a diet, you will say oh, I'm not supposed to have this, I'm gonna sneak this in into my diet, or as a kid who knows that they can have maybe one treat a day. But then they find, you know, some old Halloween candy in a cupboard. They might sneak it because then they feel like it's it's like forbidden. It's not allowed.
Scott Benner 13:07
What about adults that hide food from family members and co workers and stuff like that? Are we really just replacing the acceleration of blood sugar with the acceleration of of weight? And so all the rest of it's the same. It's the it's just the thing that you're trying to hide is different. Does that make sense? Well, yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:27
yes. And I think then you ask the question, Well, why is that person hiding? whatever they're doing? Yeah, because they have developed this kind of shameful pattern thinking that, like, I'm bad. I'm not supposed to do this. So I don't want anyone else to see it. And so I just, I need to hide and do this. before. It's sad. You know, it's It is sad.
Scott Benner 13:47
I have one more question before I go to my next. My next question, which is okay. In a person's psyche. Is it possible to hide something from yourself?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:58
Interesting, is it? Well, you can think that you're hiding it from yourself, right? by either mind mindlessly doing something, right. Like if we're staying on the topic of sneaking food, and you're thinking in through the lens of also diabetes, like, Okay, I'm going to pretend like I'm not eating this. I'm thinking about, like, let's say you have a piece of pie, or a whole pie. And people just say I'm just, I'm just cleaning off the edges, right? Like, you think that you're not really having a piece of pie because you're just having a little bite, but then by the time you go back and do that 20 times you've had the piece of pie. Yeah, I think they're, you're kind of like trying to pretend and not trying to sneak or hide it from yourself, but
Unknown Speaker 14:43
kind of make it like you're not
Scott Benner 14:44
really eating it. Does that make sense? It's excuses. That's like it. Yeah. So there's a thing when I'm when I'm eating lower carb for myself, I get a sweet tooth. I try to have a little dark chocolate. Right. And that works great for me. But it's a little bit of dark. If there's a time where I started seeing myself having the dark chocolate too frequently throughout the day, like Normally, it would just be once there is there's a part of me that's like, Oh, I just used the dark chocolate too. But there's the, the rational part of me is like, you're about to break this diet you're on. And this is the way you're getting into it. Like, I can feel it happening. And I'm intellectually I understand it's happening. But I am able to lie to myself for sometimes a day or two, before I go, Oh, come on, you know what you're doing. And put a stop to it. It's just, it's really I mean, you're not lying. You can't lie to yourself, right? Like, you can't, you can't punch a hole through a wall and tell yourself, you're picking flowers. But you but you, you can say, It's okay, if I punch this hole on the wall, I'm giving myself permission to do it. I know it's wrong, generally speaking, but I'm not going to punish myself over this right now. And and I wonder if that because because like, with so many things with diabetes, sometimes we look so hard at the type one, or the diabetes in general, that we forget that, like, people who don't have diabetes go through the same thing. It's like exactly what I mean, like the that's where the idea of real people set comes from, because people, right, because people with diabetes, tried to blame everything on their diabetes. And sometimes you just, you know, there's a difference between sneaking food because you don't want somebody to see because of a blood sugar thing, etc. Because it's become verboten somehow in your life. And maybe just the fact that you're just sneaking food for other reasons. And I just wanted to be clear about that. So then, here's the next heartbreaking part of this, especially when it's a child. Someone will say, I, I've been working on this for years, I figured out there, basil. I know how to Bolus for anything asked me I can Bolus for anything. I figured it out so that they can be healthy. It's not hard. It is not difficult to do we do it every time. Why would they sneak food and cause themselves a problem? When it's not even necessary, when we're so good at this, that it wouldn't be a problem to eat whatever thing it is they're thinking of. And that part for me is particularly interesting. Because I just I'm gonna tell you the 20 minutes before I came up here, Arden and I intersected in the kitchen. And she's hungry, but she didn't know for what she's like, I don't know what I want. And she's kind of there's nothing in the house like that whole dance. Like you're like, Well, what about you name nine things now? Like no, right?
Unknown Speaker 17:30
Yeah.
Scott Benner 17:32
And so then I was like, you just want a bowl of cereal. And she said, I don't have time to eat that. And I was like, What do you mean? I said, Sure you do just Bolus and we'll we'll do it. No, there's I don't want to wait. I don't want to wait for the Pre-Bolus She told me. So I was able to say Don't worry, we won't wait for the Pre-Bolus will over Bolus it. But I know how to handle not Pre-Bolus even even for something like vicious like cereal, right. And so I know how to over Bolus that meal, so won't cause a big problem. And even if it gets out of whack a little bit, we'll I'll knock it back down and show it or show Bolus again or however, you know, whoever intersects with first. But why would a kid knowing that you are proficient at diabetes? avoid something still, like that, to me is the thing that I watch parents, they can't make any sense of it, especially after they've put so much time and love and effort into figuring it out.
Unknown Speaker 18:31
Mm hmm. What do you think?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:33
I think it's Yeah, it's a very common question and concern and struggle really because I would look at I would want to know, it's hard to kind of give blanket say without like, choosing an age because I would say Are they they had an age of trying to demonstrate some independence or control over their life and is this one way of them feeling like hey, I can eat this on my own without anyone telling me what to do or how to Bolus or you know, feeling like is it that is it the wanting to have some control over their own life and decision without consultation? Is it is it wanting to maybe be like their peers if it's in a peer group situation and they're all quickly deciding to go eat whatever it is hamburgers or ice cream? And they just don't want to deal with it? Are they Is it is it I want to I don't want to be different I want to be like appear. Or maybe going back to the basics of you know, when this worked for one family where they went shopping with their child to the grocery store, and they said pick out everything you'd ever want to eat, you know, from all the aisles, whatever, no judgement, nothing. And just really kind of demonstrating to this this exercise helped for the family and for the child. The See, look, you can eat anything, I mean, Grant grant it within the guidance of maybe the family's expectations of eating or protein, vegetable and car, or whatever, whatever they're well about nutrition looks like. But to say you can also you can eat the Oreos, you can eat the Doritos, whatever you want, whatever kind of, quote, junk food or food that you think we don't approve of, you get it, buy it, let's fill up our cart, and take it home. And let's lay it on the counter. And you just get all we need to know is, you know, before you want it, let's Pre-Bolus or whatever, whatever the decision that works or to do what you're you're able to do with Arden. And so really kind of going through that exercise of allowing the child to see to feel to have control over picking what their favorite snacks are at the grocery store, and giving giving them some control of their life in that way. I guess. Yeah, I'm saying, and that bleeds
Scott Benner 20:53
into everything, right? Like, you know, what you're making me realize, like, You're making me think of something. So when I was growing up, there was a public school and a private Catholic school, kind of in the neighborhood. And as you got older, this thing would happen when the Catholic school girls would graduate, they'd all cut their hair, it was the strangest thing, right? Or they would start dressing completely different. Or in some cases, like having a lot of sex that they didn't have in high school, like they they made, like, big changes to their life. And I always felt like that was because they had grown up. So I kind of controlled, and I carried that remembrance into my parenting. And, and I did, I didn't give my kids like, you know, drugs when they were 10 and stuff like that. But but I tried to let my kids have a lot of agency over themselves, and to make as many decisions as they could on their own. And I'll tell you, it's a pain in the ass. Sometimes when you're raising kids, and you give them a lot of input, because there are times where you're just like, Alright, well, let's go figure out what the seven year old wants. Now, you know what I mean? And you're like, and you just need to go where you need to get something done. But it ended up paying off long term. Because my children do not feel like they're being controlled by us as much as they could. And trust me, they still do because they're young people. And you're always gonna feel like there's something to break away from. But is this another place where we're conflating diabetes with just being alive? Is what made me wonder when you were discussing it, like, I get the I get the Pierce thing, we're all out, we're gonna stop somewhere real quick, I don't have time to Bolus for it, or to count the fat in it, and then do an Bolus for the fat like, you know, you're 14 trying to decide how much fats in french fries, you know, like that kind of stuff? Like, hold on a second, there's a simple equation my mom taught me. Oh, my God, let's go over that while we're joy riding. You know what I mean? I understand that I understand. But I do also understand just the idea of wanting some sort of control over your life. And I'm wondering if you're able to hand that control to them in other places? Would it lessen their desire to find that control in this?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:17
Absolutely. And I think yeah, that's, I think we, we've talked a little bit about that. In our we talked about teens. I know, we'll probably talk about that as well later. But I think, yes, giving them finding the opportunities and the kind of Windows where you feel like you can hand over that control instead of micromanaging every aspect of your child's life and gret. And obviously, this changes over time and developmentally what they you feel like your child can handle and demonstrate that responsibility? But yes, I think giving them some other opportunities to say, okay, you can decide whether you want to wear your pink sweater or your blue sweater, you know, just like building that in letting them have those decisions in their lives where it doesn't really matter, I think will help in the long run. Yeah.
Scott Benner 24:04
So from a caregiver perspective, I, my two questions are, how do they approach this problem and address it? And what could I be looking in to myself for that would get in the way of me handling this? Well? Because I feel like that, like why would they do this, to me, is a vibe I get from parents sometimes, like I put all this into this, why is this being like, why are they doing it? And you need to understand like, your kids are not doing anything to you. Like it's not an attack, but it feels like it. You know what I mean? And I think sometimes it feels like it more to some people than others. And I would imagine that has something to do with their problems growing up. But those are my two questions that I'm interested in what you think about the rest of it?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:47
Yes. Okay. So how how to kind of move how to address the issue. You've seen your child, Snake food just based on either evidence of the blood sugars or you've caught them in the act so to speak. Or they've shared with you later, I think the first and foremost, I would always want to, if your child does come out and say, Well, yeah, you know, I did eat this two hours ago, to immediately go to just being grateful and thankful that they were being honest, as opposed to kind of going down the pathway of punitive. Because I think when we Google grant, we don't want to punish, at least from my perspective, personally, and then from my experience, collectively, professionally, working with families, children, if they are punished for making bad choices, or high blood sugars, that is going to spiral into the shame and avoidance and sneaking further, but saying, gosh, thank you so much for for sharing this with me. Let's How can we and having a dialogue, even if they're five years old, or two, or even three, I mean, granite younger than that might be challenging. But let's say 345 10, whatever age your child is, even up into teenagers, like how can we avoid this wetter and asking them like, are there? Are there foods that you feel like mommy or daddy or whoever's your caregiver doesn't allow you to eat? Because they might make a list of things that you have never, like we talked about in the beginning, you have maybe never have said you cannot eat these foods. But somehow they have learned that from yet externally public shame or questioning or from your response that you weren't aware of when you saw the number. And so asking them, are there things you feel like we can't You can't eat in this house? Right? I would start there. And then I would also go to, okay. What if they're a little bit older? If they are able to break it down? Like, were you thinking anything before or was I not around, and without assuming that they were sneaking to, maybe you were on a phone call, maybe you're busy, maybe they were just really hungry, and just were like, I need to eat this food right now. They get you know, they can be impulsive.
Scott Benner 27:10
I have a note here right to myself to remind my to say at the end of this, that to be careful not to blame people if you're not 100% certain to because you could actually cause the problem. And you're just saying like, what if I just got so hungry, and I'm four years old, that's not sneaking food. It's right, I'm hungry. Yeah. You also made me remember that this might be a little too much. But um, when I was growing up, when I was 13, my father left my mom. And my brothers were five years younger than me, and five years younger again. So I'm 13, that makes my middle brother eight, and my youngest brother three. And my mom goes off to work to try to make up the difference. And I'm basically raising these two little kids after school. Now, I'm 13. Trust me, I did not know what I was doing. And you know it now in present time, I'll joke with my brothers all the time. And thank them, because I really got a lot of my bad ideas out on them. And really saved my as a
Unknown Speaker 28:09
child parent,
Scott Benner 28:10
is it Yeah, as a 13 year old parent, teaching myself to drive and take care of a three year old and stuff. But nevertheless, I saw that with my younger brother, I didn't know what to do. And punitive was the way any bad thing was addressed. Because it's all I could think of. And I will tell you that that was tough for him. And all it would do is cause him to hide things. Like we used to have this joke like Rob's either in trouble, and you're aware of it, or getting in trouble and you haven't found out yet. And and as we joked about that, and that rang in my head while you were talking, it really made me realize that all he was doing like, I didn't curb his behavior. He just hit it better. And that's not a resolution for him or me. He's okay, right now, for anybody who's listening. He's Yeah, he's not jail or anything like that. But that is, that's what you were making me think of when you were saying that. I don't know why I said that. But it felt like Yes, yeah.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:11
Because you think you know, as a four year old who's coming home from preschool and needs a snack, they and they know where the snack buck bin is, or whatever, and they eat and that's it, you know, the child doesn't have type one, then you're not going to say well, how could How dare you go and get a bag of pretzels without telling mom? Yeah, I'm assuming mom, baby as we know, it could be dad or whoever is in the home. But I so I think we have to remind ourselves like okay, how would I yes, he has type one and I want to prevent the highs and I'm fearful of long term complications, because I think that's the sequencing. You know, your thought pattern, is that right? Or at least from what I've been told, and so going back to like, Okay, he's four, he's hungry. How can we How can we address this next time? Is it like, okay, like, and maybe going back to like, why as your second question is, okay, why the parent has clearly has solid competence and confidence and Bolus and for any food. And you've told your child time and time again that they can eat anything. And reminding them that we just need to Bolus beforehand whatever the timeframe is. And okay, so why is the child doing it couldn't be all of those factors. And now it's a you had all those conversations you've eliminated, okay, the child knows he can eat anything the child knows, he just needs to tell the parent that he wants to eat something. And yet he's still doing it, I think I would then look at Okay, how often is that happening? Is it is it a one off experience, because you know, just like, as caregivers, we are going to make mistakes, we are going to, we're not going to Bolus enough, we're not going to Pre-Bolus in enough time. And we have to practice that grace and forgiveness towards ourselves. We can offer we can model that for our children, and seeking from like a caregiver lens. And then we can also offer that to our children, because they're going to make mistakes. Now, if visit isn't happening every day, then I would go to my first two points of Okay, the child must feel like he can't have it. Or maybe he's just hungry, and we need to figure that out. But if it's a one off occasion, then I would just say you know what? We need to you know, offer that grace and forgiveness and you correct and move on.
Scott Benner 31:41
Right? Hey, and if it happens over and over again, as a parent as the adult, do you at some point have to look at yourself and say, there must be some way I'm impacting this, it's causing this behavior to some degree.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:54
I think that would be a helpful first or second step. Yes. If you've asked all the questions and say, Okay, how am I? What kind of messaging Am I giving whether explicitly or implicitly whether it's my facial expression, or noise, like you're looking at the if it's CGM, or meter, and you're like, right, like these simple things aren't, you know, toddlers can pick up on those noises and those size and even your body language, right? And so maybe kind of checking in with yourself is what is your your kind of gut response when you're looking at the numbers? Yeah,
Scott Benner 32:30
so you and I haven't recorded together that much at this point. But I have learned one thing about you that I can't ask you to make a blanket statement because you won't do it. And but I do want to ask you because I want to close out this episode, but I want to just do one thing. How much of an adult's actions are they unaware of? Like, how many times do we do something for what we think is one reason, but really, it's not for that reason? Is it frequently throughout the day?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:58
even as a child, how much are they aware of no idea
Scott Benner 33:01
as an adult person who thinks that we're control of what we're doing? Like? How many how many times? Are our actions driven by something that we don't understand?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:12
Wow, yeah, that's a whole nother episode. I don't know. I think it depends on how self aware are you?
I mean, have you done the work in learning what your your thought patterns are? And how your thoughts affect your feelings? which affect your actions?
Scott Benner 33:28
Let's say no. Right?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:28
Like that. That's all connected? Yeah. Let's Oh, no, then yeah, you probably don't have a whole lot of self awareness. And so everything from you're raising your eyebrows, very subtle things that others can pick up on, you know, eyebrow raises size hands, like you haven't said a word and you've communicated a lot. Yeah. And so I think if you're not aware of, of your thought patterns, which connect to your actions, and also your feelings, then you probably are, you're communicating a whole lot more than you might even you are aware of.
Scott Benner 34:02
Okay, and I want to add to that, thank you. I want to add to that, that it takes longer to fix than you think it would, because I've been absolutely I've been battling with this for a decade and a half now. And I'm much better today than I was. But at the beginning, anything that went wrong with diabetes, I was like, like it, like I just edit. And it just felt like it felt like you were trying to conquer something and you were falling off of it all the time. And I never had any intention of mirroring that to anybody in my life, but I did the people around me were like, Oh, my God, he's upset. And so I never felt upset. I just felt like God dammit. Like those little micro things. So anyway, I just wanted to make sure to put that in there. Thank you very much.
Unknown Speaker 34:40
This was wonderful. He welcome. Thank you.
Scott Benner 34:52
I want to thank Eric again, and remind you that if you live in California and are looking for a therapist, go to Erica Forsythe Calm, there's links in your show notes. If you're looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes, they begin at Episode 210 in your podcast player, or you can find them at diabetes pro tip.com or at Juicebox Podcast comm if you're just finding the show and getting started with management ideas, I really think you should begin with the defining diabetes series, which is also available diabetes pro tip comm or in your podcast player. And if you're listening in a podcast player right now you haven't subscribed or followed the show, please do. If you're enjoying the show, please share it with others. If you'd like to find some good conversation about type one diabetes, I suggest you check out the private Facebook group for the show Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, answer a couple of quick questions to make sure you're a real person and you'll be let right then and there you will find GS over 10,000 listeners just like you talking about type one diabetes. I'm going to remind you again to go to T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box and fill out that survey just takes a couple of quick minutes. If you're a type one yourself, or the caregiver of a type one, as a US resident, you'd really be helping other type ones and the show if you took the time to fill it out. And I thank you very much for considering that. This episode did not have any ads today. But I still want to thank the sponsors the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, g Volk hypo pen and touched by type one.org. There are links everywhere to all the sponsors. And all I ask is that if you're looking for a great CGM, an accurate meter, a tubeless insulin pump for some really cool glucagon use my legs and of course, touched by type one is it touched by type one.org. They're also on Instagram and Facebook. I hope you go find them and check out what they're doing. Because what they're doing is wonderful. So if you're considering getting a Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, please use the link in the show notes or type in dexcom.com Ford slash juice box hey you know you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash tubeless insulin pump on the pod comm forward slash juice box Arden uses the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and I find it to be the most accurate and easy to use blood glucose meter she has ever had. Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box find out about the G vo Kibo pen the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo glucagon comm forward slash juice box. I want to thank you again for listening to the show for making it the most popular type one diabetes podcast around and for sharing it with others because that is truly how it grows. There are days and today is one of them where I wish I could give you everything that I have recorded right now. Because there's so much good stuff coming. I feel weird, not just releasing at all but things don't work that way. And if I did that you'd never find it. So come on back next week, where there'll be three new episodes of the Juicebox Podcast just like every week. We'll see what we can find that fits your needs. I hope you know how much I enjoyed making this podcast for you. I'll talk to you soon.
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