#1109 Type 3c Diabetes

Lara has type 3c diabetes. She lost her pancreas, spleen, gall bladder and part of her stomach during a pancreatic tumor surgery.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1109 of the Juicebox Podcast.

46 year old Laura has typed three C diabetes. She lost her pancreas, spleen gallbladder and part of her stomach during a pancreatic tumor surgery, Laura found the podcast while she was looking for help with her new diabetes. She found episode 279 and has been a listener ever since. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year's supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter wears the Dexcom G seven Dex comm.com/juice box Get started today using this link. And you'll not only be doing something great for yourself, you'll be supporting the Juicebox Podcast. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox My

Lara 2:02
name is Laura. I am Canadian. I live in Canada in British Columbia about an hour outside of Vancouver. I am 46 years old. I'm married and have one daughter who is 17 graduating high school this year and we couldn't be more excited about that. Nice. And I'm currently in battle with pancreatic cancer.

Scott Benner 2:25
Not as nice. Okay. All right. Okay, so my first question is before we started recording, because of the spelling of your name, I said is it Laura? And you said yes. But then because of your Canadian accent I thought you said Laura so now I don't know what to do.

Lara 2:39
You know what? It's a okay by me. i It's pronounced Laura. I get Lera Laura, it doesn't bother me whatsoever.

Scott Benner 2:47
But I want to get it right. It's lar I'm leaning on the far too much. Right, Laura? Yeah. So Laura, did I get it?

Lara 2:57
Got it?

Scott Benner 3:01
Well, I was gonna curse right off the bat and say, that sucks. But when did you learn about the cancer?

Lara 3:08
Well, it was March and NetBackup. A little bit because it all started in March of 2021. I was two weeks out of moving we had a major move underway to move to acreage in a much larger house. And two weeks before our giant move. I ended up in the hospital with pancreatitis, which was unusual for someone of my age and my spent seven days in the hospital being treated for pancreatitis. I'd had all of the CTS, the MRIs, everything came out perfectly clear, clear pancreas. They did find in July, when I had the secondary scan an abnormality in a bile duct. And at that point, they told me that they were going to monitor it and I might need to have my gallbladder out. Okay,

Scott Benner 4:01
so can I ask first let me let me let me step you through it. What are the symptoms that led you in the hospital initially,

Lara 4:10
I had a terrible, terrible back pain. So it was radiating in the middle of the night from my mid back through my shoulder blades, severe nausea and oily stool, domino pain and just a general feeling of unwell. But actually, by the time I ended up in the hospital, my symptoms had recovered, but my bloodwork was still showing highlight paste numbers and inflammation markers were up. So the only way to fix that is to put you on IV drip only and no food for seven

Scott Benner 4:51
days. Okay, lipase, is that just an indicator for the pancreas? Is that right?

Lara 4:57
That's right. And by Those numbers are high

Scott Benner 5:01
oily stools never something you want. I don't care for what reason no,

Lara 5:05
but I was on a keto diet at the time too. So I kind of thought at the same time maybe that was all related but it wasn't something and initially I didn't have any pain that started later. So I didn't really think much of it to be honest with you, it kind of came and went. And in hindsight, really there the warning signs were there from long ago and that's kind of what I want to bring attention to people that you really in tune with their body.

Scott Benner 5:34
If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you storage evoke hypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use Chivo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G voc hypo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information. Yeah, now um, my my I'm doing a little reading right here. So lipase does not correlate to pain, in case you're wondering. It doesn't end it. There is a concern here is is lipase attached doesn't mean diabetes is, you know, for example. And it does say that lipase elevation shortly precedes the onset of type one. But that's probably a thing. Nobody knows when it's happening. I would imagine. That's right,

Lara 7:16
yeah. And it's not something that they normally test for unless you're having issues. So until you're already at the point, we're having some symptoms and some issues. That's when it looks when they look for it. And it was actually by chance, my doctor thought, oh, I shouldn't check for this level, because he had also had a patient recently just before me with the same issues. So and that was her issue. Yeah,

Scott Benner 7:42
I was wondering how I got to it so quickly. Honestly, plus, and I don't mean to be pejorative, but you're in Canada. So you it's a province coin flip whether you get good health care or not right.

Lara 7:53
Is that ever the truth? And I can tell you some nightmare stories that I've been through recently, actually, about that. But in this case, in the very beginning stages, I was treated very well. They were on top of it right away. I had the proper scans and everything seemed to be going along really well.

Scott Benner 8:15
But yeah, so So what was the treat, what was the initial treatment?

Lara 8:19
The initial treatment for me was hospitalization, clear fluids. After a few days, I was on only IV fluids, because they're they put you on digestive rest is really the only way to get past that. And then by the time I left the hospital, I thought it was all good to go. Yeah, sure. We'll check and see if maybe the gallbladder needs out later, but I felt totally fine. Okay.

Scott Benner 8:47
Was the gallbladder showing any indication? Or was that just the thing they said we have to watch out for?

Lara 8:53
Gallbladder and pancreatitis go together very often. And because they found that abnormality in the bile duct, they were watching that. And that might have been the trigger where they would have pulled the gallbladder out if that hadn't resolved itself.

Scott Benner 9:10
And my last question is when they when you said they scanned your pancreas was that ultrasound?

Lara 9:14
It was CT scan CT. Okay. Thank you. Sorry,

Scott Benner 9:18
God, keep you you left. You thought you were good to go. I'm sorry. Keep going.

Lara 9:22
And then so they said come back in six months. And so that put it around February my birthday of 2022. And I was feeling fine. Well, they scheduled me for the follow up CT scan and I was expecting at the very worst that I would have to have gallbladder surgery, no big deal. But I got a phone call after that initial scan in February of 2020 to two days later to come back in and I knew at that point that I was in trouble. So at the second scan, they found a one Point four millimeter mass on my pancreas. It was very, very small, very, very early, it had zero spread, there was no indication of any real seriousness at that point. They thought no big deal, we can get in there really quick get it out without having any spread. And I didn't have any symptoms. They thought that this would be a curable thing for me.

Scott Benner 10:28
For clarity, you said it once, but I want to make sure I repeat it, the pain was gone, right?

Lara 10:32
pain was gone, I was totally fine. I was actually very annoyed that I had to go in for this scan. Because I had to take time out to do it. And it was a contrast dye one, which I didn't really like doing. And I thought to myself, well, I was fine. So why am I doing this? But I did my due diligence. And thank God I did because it was a bad thing.

Scott Benner 10:58
Before we move forward. And you tell me about you know what they what they decided to do? You mentioned this, but I want to dig into it for a second. You said hindsight like I don't know if you use those words, but I thought like were their hindsight symptoms were even for years before did you have issues that you ignored or stuff that you'd like, look back and go, Oh, I think this was a thing.

Lara 11:21
The only thing I would say that I should have paid more attention to was the symptoms from the pancreatitis, which was the oily stool, and I should have been on top of that. But with the keto diet, I was I thought, maybe I'm just not digesting Well, which clearly wasn't because there was issues there. And it was completely unrelated to the keto diet. But that also could have been something that triggered it as well.

Scott Benner 11:51
How long before and for how long? Did that occur? Before you got the lower back pain shooting to your shoulders? I

Lara 11:58
would say several months, but not continually off and on not every day. So I didn't really think anything of it. And that was silly on my part.

Scott Benner 12:09
You know, honestly, probably not. You know what I mean? Like, because for every person who can say, I ignored this and it turned into cancer. There's a there's a million people, you know what I mean? Who are like like, nobody guess what, everything was fine. So I mean, don't beat yourself. Yes, that is the case. Yes. You don't beat yourself up. But but at the same time, it's it's great to know what to look for. Also, I think it helps highlight that your pancreas has something to do with your digestion and a lot of people don't know that. So huge portion. Yeah, okay. So they see this this little mass and they are going to try to take it out. So what are next steps.

Lara 12:46
So the next steps are PET scan and biopsy. I had the referral to a hippo, that hepatic biliary oncologist surgeon who was confident that this was going to be a curable thing for me, given that it was so small. So PET scan showed just this very same, actually, it showed the same tumor very small. It also led up my thyroid, which I had a thyroid nodule, they said that was going to be okay, they would do a fine needle biopsy on that, but it would be unrelated to what I was dealing with with pancreatic cancer. The biopsy was done, and it confirmed that we were dealing with invasive ductal adenocarcinoma, which is the worst kind of pancreatic cancer to have. It spreads quickly. And it's quite aggressive. But we were still confident that with the surgery, and then six months of chemo, after the surgery was done, that I would have the cure that we were looking for. So I went in very, very positive and confident that I was in good hands. And that things would be a okay. And I do want to say that this was all extra scary for me because 10 years ago, we lost my uncle to pancreatic cancer. Seven really? Yes.

Scott Benner 14:13
Yeah, I have to tell you, I don't pray. I don't know if people know this. I haven't said this in a while. But when I sit down to record, generally speaking, I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't like I don't pre plan my conversations. And I don't really look at my calendar. So you know, some people really want to know what the weather is before they go outside. I'm more of a wander outside and see what the weather's like person. And, and I do that with this too. And I just want to tell you upfront, I don't want to slow you down. But if I pause, I lost my mom to cancer in the last year. I'm having a more difficult time with this than I thought I would. So don't I don't I don't want to stop you but we're definitely having this conversation. But at some point, I'm gonna cry today just so you know. I like let's just put,

Lara 15:01
and I likely will to a okay. Okay,

Scott Benner 15:04
good. Good as long as we're both expected. Yes. Yeah, you just it just it took me by surprise a second ago. I was like, I don't feel right. Why do I not feel right?

Lara 15:12
I guess Yeah.

Scott Benner 15:14
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Lara 16:30
I really did because by all stretches of the imagination, this was found by accident, it was found so early, it was very small, almost at the point where it wouldn't even be something that would be detected, it has to be a certain size before it can be detected on scans, the cells can be caught and PET scan just floating around because they light up like they feed it they feed them sugar and cancer cells light up like Christmas tree. But the actual tumors need to be big enough to be able to be found. So this was just at the point it was so small surgery, there was going to be a distal pancreatectomy which means they would have taken half of the pancreas and my spleen. Because those things are connected. And by all searches of the imagination, they told me that the pancreas that was left over was going to take over the insulin production. And I wouldn't be a diabetic I would be fully cured and just had to get through this hard road for well, six months surgery, well recovery and then six months of chemo. So they started the chemo six months after the full surgery.

Scott Benner 17:43
So you thought I'm getting a surgery, not much is gonna change other than I'm not gonna have cancer anymore. And yeah, okay, so when did they tell you? That's not what happened? Is it like, right when you woke up? Or how does that go?

Lara 17:56
My surgery was scheduled for March 28 of 2022. And on the 25th of March, I had my last CT scan before going into surgery. And I never saw the results of that. And while I was being wheeled into surgery from the little holding room, after I'd been laying there crying my eyes out scared as scared could be. I met the surgeon for the first time face to face because this was still times where they were doing phone appointments. And I hadn't seen his face events. So there he stood with me and told me that the tumor had grown in that six week timeframe from one CT scan to the next from 1.4 millimeters to four and a half centimeters and it had taken over the entire pancreas.

Scott Benner 18:49
I'm not good with the metric system. But that sounds like a significant increase.

Lara 18:53
Significant is right. So it went from one tiny little dog and they're taking over the whole pancreas. And at that point, he said there still haven't been any spread. But the likelihood that I was going to lose the entire pancreas was was pretty probable.

Scott Benner 19:14
Yeah. For people who like me who don't know the, the metric system. That's about a 40 times gross or growth of, of the mass. Yeah, it grew by like 40 times its size in six weeks. That's right. Yeah, that's

Lara 19:29
the one thing invasive and aggressive. That it that it is. So the importance of the early detection was astronomically important. I can't even say because at this point, the surgery, the whole pancreas could still come out. The cancer hadn't still spread at that point. So there was a silver lining to that although I was completely unprepared for what what I was going to find And when I woke up,

Scott Benner 20:01
so yeah, it's like, it's like the opposite of Christmas, you got two gifts instead of one. And usually they were like, hey, guess what? You have cancer and diabetes. Like I didn't have either these things five minutes ago. What the hell and so you're coming out of a surgery as a type one, basically, it's type three, right? It's what they call it, type three, C, three, C, type three, saying, you're coming out of surgery is a type A type three, C, and somebody's telling you, hey, there's way more cancer and then than we thought, and that's all out of nowhere from. And so for all the crying you did before, how does it you do a little more after I imagined. So

Lara 20:44
the surgery was nine hours when I was supposed to be like three and a half. So that alone was a huge undertaking. And I when I got to the recovery room, it was very late. And that's when they told me that I had lost my whole pancreas. And I also awoke to nurses in sheer panic, because they were unable to control my blood sugar. So they kept me in the recovery room because they're got me on this point, insulin drip, which has to be done with one to one care. And they're worried about DKA at this point, and I don't even know what DKA is.

Scott Benner 21:26
You're not even awake. But you definitely don't know what it is right? Also, I take your point about the time. I remember, we dropped my mom at about eight or nine in the morning at the hospital during COVID. We couldn't even go with my like 70 At that point, 78 year old mother, I think at 78 or 79, we basically wheeled her through the front door gave her a good running, pushing was like good luck, and then had to leave, you know, like because they wouldn't even let you come in with her. And that was frightening in and of itself. But the doctor said, I'll call like, my number was the one he was going to call after the surgery was over. And I'm not lying to you. It was like 730 at night when he finally called me. And he and he called the say, my assistant basically, is still closing your mom up, but I'm done now. And I was like, Wait, this this was like I just figured the schedule got messed up, or they lost her like seriously? Yeah, because I really, really did just kind of run through the door with the wheelchair. And we're like, alright, mom, like, well, good luck. Yeah. And like I said, maybe she's just sitting it all somewhere, you know, but, but instead, it took the better part of the day to do what they ended up having to do for the same reason, because they got there. And they were like, wow, there's more here than we expected. So my

Lara 22:44
family was completely unprepared because they were waiting at the hospital. And at some point, they had to go home. And I remember them, my husband saying, Yeah, we got the phone call. We were almost home. And it was way late at night. And the surgeon called and told him but I still hadn't spoken or seen any of my family and listening to these nurses in panic about these things that I don't know

Scott Benner 23:11
about. They're like, hey, we can't get our blood sugar under control. And you're like, Well, that wasn't part of why I was here.

Lara 23:16
Right? Yeah. And I don't even know what numbers mean at this point. Right? So my sugars were at 25. And I don't know what,

Scott Benner 23:27
oh, I could tell you, but only after I get a conversion chart on my website. I

Lara 23:32
have a conversion chart saved on my phone from the Juicebox Podcast.

Scott Benner 23:35
Thank you 20 Oh my god. 25 Wait, are you serious? Yep. Oh, that's a for like a 450 blood sugar. Yeah, yeah. Okay, for hours

Lara 23:45
for hours and hours and hours. And once they got them finally back down, I think it was about 130 in the morning is finally when I left recovery and then went up to the ward, but I had had asked to call my mom because I just wanted my mom I just as you do. I just needed her and so I had the phone call with her. completely out of it totally confused and very angry. Yeah,

Scott Benner 24:14
and angry for a Canadian. What does that even mean? Were you saying dharna

Lara 24:20
Oh, I can get super angry.

Scott Benner 24:23
I always tell people you know you don't know about Canadian So people always say there's there's not as much gun violence in Canada. I was like, but they love to stab each other. So don't go give him too much credit.

Lara 24:31
I also hear we're very squarey

Scott Benner 24:37
Well, I know for sure in bars. You're very savvy. So

Lara 24:42
because we can think guns here right? I

Scott Benner 24:44
assume that's why it's happening. Yes. So while you reached through your mom, like you skipped right over? I don't mean this in a bad way. I honestly don't but when you thought I need help you didn't go to your husband. You went to your mother.

Lara 24:59
I went to my mom. And I always do especially with the medical stuff because she she understands more my husband's a little bit more of a stress case when it comes to all of these things. And I knew that he had my daughter with him and I kind of didn't want to get her involved at this point before I'd even figured things out. And I think you always just ride I do miss reach for my mom. I

Scott Benner 25:25
just think that this highlights a mother's instinct on your part. Because if I was in trouble, I would drag everybody into my heart immediately. Be like, I can't believe you people left. Like I need everyone back here. I want to visual there should be candles, crying, crying shifts. So every time I look up, I see somebody said

Lara 25:47
I went total opposite. I went into like recluse mode. I didn't want to see anybody at all.

Scott Benner 25:56
Did you think you were going to die? Is that? When does that occur to you the first time.

Lara 26:01
The first time it occurred to me that I might die was when I first got the first report with the that I had pancreatic cancer because I'm in the Google tells you no one comes out of it. Yeah. And so I tried really hard. And I did, probably to my dismay, actually, in the end, I stayed off the Google and I stayed off all of the Facebook groups for praying pancreatic cancer, because it was all nothing but doom and gloom. And I wanted to stay positive because I knew mindset had something to do with it. And I have felt that I was in good hands and that I should trust the people that were dealing with me in my situation, and not the random strangers that have had a myriad of different experiences, some good, some terrible. And I didn't know where I was going to fit into all of that. So I didn't do a whole lot.

Scott Benner 26:57
You don't want to jump into somebody else's story and put it on yourself when maybe you're not in the same position they're in. Yeah.

Lara 27:03
Especially since so many of those stories are not good. It was not a safe place when I was learning a whole new life at the same time.

Scott Benner 27:14
Yeah, you make yourself crazy, I would imagine. Totally. Yeah. So okay, so you're, you're kind of locked down your you got your mom, which does your mom say anything valuable? Or is it all just a lot of love. It's

Lara 27:25
just a lot of love. Because at this point, she didn't know what was going to be valuable to say, other than she was it was going to be okay, and that she would be there every step of the way, which she has been holding my hand every step of the way along this whole journey. She's not left my side, and has been an amazing support for all of us. My family included, so we couldn't have done any of this without her.

Scott Benner 27:53
Did she? Get off the phone with you? And latch up the dogs take a big cut a whale blubber and head right to you on her sled? Or how did she stay where she was? That's how you guys get around. Right?

Lara 28:07
That's right. So she was there early the next morning. So at one in the morning, I ended up back in my room, our room, which was nice. I had a private room, which doesn't happen very often here in Canada, they're usually a four bed ward room. And given the nature of what I was going through, I appreciated that time where I was just alone, and not having other patients in the room. But she was there. And you almost had to kick her out to leave at the end of the day. So I spent nine full days in the hospital recovering from the surgery. The next day after the surgery they'd sent in the first endocrinologist that I was to me and I sent her out the door as fast as she came in. Because she knew immediately she wasn't going to be a fit for me. How come? She came in. So bubbly and squealing with her hair and a high ponytail and she's talking to me like life is good. We have insulin and she was so trying to be this bubbly positive person and I was just I'm like I like the facts. I don't need no. Like lucky stuff. Tell me where it is that like, tell me what I need to know what I need to do.

Scott Benner 29:26
We might get along really well because yeah, I like the most despicable part of her was her high ponytail.

Lara 29:35
I just couldn't I couldn't deal with her. And she just she came in she gave me a meter. She gave me and left nurses a basic lard pen. That's what that's what how that went down.

Scott Benner 29:48
You know what I was really surprised by earlier in your story. You can't be the first person to go into surgery and come out without a pancreas. Now why were the nurses so thrown off by it in postop because obviously you're not a person Using Basal insulin when you went in, so you have no insulin at all, like your body's like devoid of insulin. And so I'm not a doctor, I just want to be clear. And if you took a person and handed them to me and said, Hey, I just took this person's pancreas out, my brain would go, Well, we have to get Basal insulin going right now. I don't know why that's difficult. Like,

Lara 30:22
I don't either, but I do know that they don't do these surgeries very often. And I am one of the few that it does happen. Because normally, these things are found too late for this to make a difference. So

Scott Benner 30:36
they don't do the removal because it's over by the before it starts.

Lara 30:39
That's right. Yeah. So that part I get, but when you're when you are in that one to one care recovery room, I mean, surely you had diabetics through there before. You know how to deal with the one to one and IV drip of insulin, but they were shocked and didn't know

Scott Benner 31:00
what to do this endo that comes and sees you after the surgery. She wasn't meeting your energy. Let's just say that. Yeah, because your energy was, hey, I just found out I have way more. I had way more cancer than I thought I did. And now I have diabetes on top of that. And she came in like Mr. Rogers, and you were like, No, we're not doing this. Yes. Right. Okay. I understand, by the way. So what ends up happening then, like you got your Basal guard pen, but what else did you get out of that?

Lara 31:27
So they never actually, this, this is this is I know, you're going to find this shocking. And I've heard because I listened to the diet, the diagnosis stories, on the Juicebox Podcast, they would come in at night and give me a shot of basically or they didn't explain to me what that was. And then with my meals as I could eat, because there was a long period of time where I had just really any difficulty because they remove part of my stomach as well. So this surgery comes with gallbladder spleen removal part of your stomach, and your pancreas. So they've reconnected at all

Scott Benner 32:08
why the stomach was there, cancer there.

Lara 32:10
There wasn't but just how the digestive tract works. They have to when they remove, yeah, the stomach smaller. Okay.

Scott Benner 32:19
The Basal cars, Basal cars, let Lantis so that's your so they were giving you slow acting at night, but not telling you what it was. They didn't say this is Basal insulin or nothing. Well, you know, you did scare the lady away. Who might have told you?

Lara 32:35
Well, she didn't. She came in. And she wasn't even really prepared to give me any education or anything. At that point. I think they thought maybe too early. But obviously, they didn't know me. Because I need to be armed with the facts. And I need to know what it is that I'm doing and how how, like, how is this going to work? Like, you can't just come and shoot me up with something and then expect me to know what it is when this hasn't been a part of my life and it and I actually, truth be told only no one other type one diabetic in my life, so yeah, I didn't know. No,

Scott Benner 33:10
yeah, you don't you have no idea. You say nine days in the hospital after that? Yep, nine days. Okay. Do you have any idea what you're doing diabetes related by the time you leave even? One

Lara 33:24
night, I'm going to tell you this, because what no one told me anything about diabetes, they would come in, they would give me when I would eat, they would give me a shot of insulin with my meal, they would give me that basic bar at night. But they didn't explain to me like how much or what would happen or whatever. And I remember one night not knowing, not knowing anything, and I didn't feel well. And if you know me, you have to I have to be near death to press that nurse call button because I just can't stand it. And it was in the middle of the night and I thought I'm gonna annoy all these people. At this point. I was in a four bedroom. And I was sweating and shaking. And I felt like I was running out of time. I press the call button. And of course, I had a low blood sugar. But I didn't know this was gonna happen to me. They didn't tell me. They said oh, you have low blood sugar. drink this juice. Okay, but then they told me this would keep happening either.

Scott Benner 34:26
You just thought like, oh, they probably just got it wrong. This one time this will never happened again. Yeah, they didn't

Lara 34:31
tell me this was going to be a regular almost daily occurrence for me.

Scott Benner 34:34
It's so difficult to be prepared for the first time. Anything happens and this is gonna sound disconnected for a second but I have a fairly healthy life overall. Like I'm a pretty robust person. We were cleaning the other day my wife and I did the very adult thing of cleaning our house one Saturday and just you know, spent the entire day cleaning stuff. And I'm a boy, so she's downstairs doing what she's doing. I just take bleach and cut it with water, put it in a spray bottle and just like douse everything, wipe it down and like it look, it's clean. And by the way, it works great, but I was cleaning in a corner. And this is gonna sound ridiculous. But there's a toilet in the corner and a corner in the corner. And so I sprayed down the toilet, and I sprayed down the floor. And then I walked away and came back. And I was in a room, obviously with a fan that was drawing the air up from the ground. And I turned back around to kind of go down onto my knees into the space to you know, wipe everything up and do everything I was going to do. And I think between the ceiling fan running and how much I had sprayed, I just bent down and took in a bunch of bleach in through like a brown. And I felt it hit the back of my throat and then started going down by a sock. Like I don't know how air works, but it was going down through my chest and as it was going down like I wasn't, I couldn't breathe. And I've never been in that situation before. And so I'm wearing rubber gloves. I'm holding stuff of earphones in my ears, like you don't you mean like an eye. I'm like, ooh. And I'm like, Okay, I need to get like, I feel like I should drink something. It's the only thought I have. I stand up immediately should not run it out of my nose. My eyes are watering crazy. I'm coughing to try it. And I'm thinking of God upon coughing at least I'm breathing. And I'm coughing and coughing, and I'm trying to pull the gloves off because I don't have a cup and I'm going to I know I'm about to like just take water like Tom Hanks in one of those movies. And like throw it at my face and try to get some in my mouth. What was that one when he was on the island Castaway, then I'm like, and I'm gonna, like do that. Right? And but I I have the wherewithal to think I bleach on my gloves, I have to take the gloves off. But as I'm reaching for the gloves, I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna die. Like they I am gonna King die cleaning the goddamn toilet. That is literally what went through my head. I was like, son of a bitch. I'm quasi famous, this is gonna get around. And like so I'm like, I'm pulling on these gloves trying to get them off. I'm trying to get the water running. And as I reached for the water, I think water or milk, I forget is water bad? Is water gonna make it worse. And then I just had the thought I was like, whatever, I gotta clear it like so I just started like shoveling water at my face. I got one good breath. And I was like, help need help. So I start heading through the house to get to Kelly. And I'm like going down the stairs. I'm like, like hacking up like I felt like a lung was coming out. But we've been married forever. So she can ignores me all the time. So so like I'm coming down the stairs and I'm like, Cal Cal Cal. Help, Help Help. She's what's going on. And I'm like, all I want to say is you son of a bitch. Like what's going on? I'm dying. Look at me. Like i Great. I'm like, I'm like bah bah, bah. So now I'm like running through the kitchen getting trying to get a glass so I can force down as much liquid as I can in between breasts and having that real panic feeling like my brain is gonna shut off because I don't have enough oxygen. And I finally get it in and I'm standing there just dripping out of every hole on my face. And like just dying. And she's like, what's going on? And I was like, You were no help whatsoever. Oh, God, I was like, I was counting on you. And you just stared at me. But But my point in telling the story. Besides learning, let's be honest, it's funny. But besides, besides telling you for that story, I was thrust into a situation I'd never been in before around my health. And I barely held myself together. And I think I was in trouble. Like I was in real trouble. And then she got put into a situation she'd ever been in before. And she kind of like just froze. And so I'm picturing you a couple of days shy of learning that you know, all this just happened with my pancreas and all this other stuff. You get a low blood sugar. You must have been me standing at the sink. You must have been I'd write I don't know what is happening, or what I'm supposed to do. Yeah,

Lara 39:04
it never happened to me before in my life. And I wasn't expecting it didn't know it was a thing for me. And I didn't know how to deal with it. But drink this juice. Yeah, everything will be fine. Let

Scott Benner 39:18
me just say this, if more of you would click on the links for the advertisers, I could probably afford to hire a cleaner to come through once a month and do a deep cleaning on the bath.

Lara 39:27
I will share it all Yeah, I

Scott Benner 39:29
mean, you guys, we'd probably saved my life by supporting the advertisers better. I'm not a person who pays them things done around my house. Like I like even my neighbor's like somebody's cutting their lawn. I'm like, can you just cut your own lawn? And she's like, I'm 60 and I'm like, Just get out there and do it you'll be fine. I'm kidding. But I mean if the podcast got big enough I would get somebody to clean the bathroom just so you all know you could save my life by supporting the sponsors.

Lara 39:53
It's an important thing for

Scott Benner 39:55
me Lark because I obviously don't know enough to like dilute the bleach better before a Yeah. I basically learned Yeah, I basically atomized bleach and then like, sucked it up. So anyway, I'm an idiot. But anyway, okay, and by the way, what am I complaining to you? You've been cancer. So yeah, yeah, we haven't gotten to the the truly horrific part of your story yet. Okay, so your low blood sugar, they get you back up. Does that make you think not even like this could happen again? You're not even at that. Yeah, yeah.

Lara 40:31
Because I didn't know like, I honestly hadn't a clue because really, at this point, nothing had been explained to me. They just kept coming in given me insulin feeding me, which was a difficult thing for me to do. They're giving me insulin for meals that I don't know that I can eat. Yeah, yeah. So and then even checking blood sugars, they would come in poke my finger, but not really explaining. They would say this is good or whatever. I mean, I honestly didn't know I had on either. They gave me but they didn't come with enough lancets or strips to do anything with just one of the sample ones.

Scott Benner 41:13
1010 strips at it. Right?

Lara 41:15
Yeah, done. So I was just really relying upon the care that they were giving me and I figured by the time I was gonna go home, I would have been to a class of some sort. I don't know what how does this even work? Apparently

Scott Benner 41:32
not. Well, good job, fired

Lara 41:35
by my oncologist or my endocrinologist. So I, they had to find a new one for me, which they did. Thank God. It wasn't until my they're getting ready to send me home after this nine days in there. And I said, but I don't know. Like, what am I? What do I do? They still hadn't explained that to me. So the endocrinologist came in and said, Give yourself 35 units of weight basic Laura at night, four units of admelog for breakfast, and lunch and six units of admelog at dinner.

Scott Benner 42:13
Did they tell you to count like what they put on a sliding scale or tell you to have a certain amount of carbs or anything like that?

Lara 42:18
Just eat like a diabetic plate? Oh, so my dad's a type two diabetic. So my mom's like, Okay, well, you need to have like a little bit of carbs, lots of vegetables and some protein. So outside of that, I didn't know how to eat anything else. I didn't know that I could give myself more insulin, if I had a snack. I didn't know any of that. Until I found your podcast. No one taught me that.

Scott Benner 42:45
That's something. I wonder if people in the medical profession hear that and are just ashamed.

Lara 42:50
You know, they shouldn't be because it is such a huge thing. And it is something that can as you know, kill Yana second, or send you into DKA. If you're not careful with taking enough insulin at the right time,

Scott Benner 43:06
Rudel, I'm assuming you're struggling along with this because these meals were probably not properly covered by insulin at all. I mean, he who even knows if that was the right amount of basil for you. Right? So it was 35. I mean, may I ask how much you weigh? I was

Lara 43:22
much heavier at the time. Okay. But as you well know, cancer and all of this surgery and I the massive weight loss very quickly, then put me into a point where I was experiencing multiple lows through the night because I was having too much at that point. So I was I think at the end I was down to 21 units of basic larges

Scott Benner 43:47
gonna say yeah. Did you have any situation where somebody who you kind of knew saw you one day and was like, Oh, my God, Laura ozempic. And you were like, no cancer?

Lara 43:57
Pretty much. Yeah, I kept it all very quiet. Actually. I didn't tell anybody what was going on. Until Until I started chemo. Actually, I didn't let anyone in. I was so in such a terrible state of mind. I didn't let any other than my very close circle. No one knew what I was going through.

Scott Benner 44:18
Can you give me a little bit of color on why that was like, why did it seem important to you to keep it to yourself at first? It

Lara 44:24
seems silly now. But I felt like I was going to be judged for maybe having a bad lifestyle. Or, I don't know. I think it was just all so shocking for me to like, even just seeing the words out loud put me into a place where I didn't want to be Yeah. And it's made it all more realistic. And I wasn't prepared to answer people's questions because we'll I really didn't know what was going on at that point for myself and trying to explain it all. Oh, I just wasn't ready for it all. And then the end when I did tell everyone this support and outreach was astronomical. And I probably should have done it sooner. Yeah, your

Scott Benner 45:12
worry. Was you just imagined really? Yeah.

Lara 45:15
100% So when I left the hospital, I left the hospital with my one day Ziegler pen, and had to stop at the diabetes educator on the way home from the hospital, where she gave me a sample of the FreeStyle Libre, a little schooling on how to inject where to inject, May, and then I stopped at the pharmacy for my analog pens, which I didn't have needles, digestive enzymes, which is another something I have to take every day with everything I put in my mouth.

Scott Benner 45:55
Which ones do you use?

Lara 45:56
I use bio case. Okay.

Scott Benner 45:59
I use pure encapsulations. But I don't need it every time. But I obviously don't have the same issue you do. I might not even have an issue. I don't even know. I just know what helps. That's all it's important. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, like, I had a slice of pizza yesterday. And I put the pizza on the plate. And then I thought were those little pills popped to my mouth. I went with two because cheese in Greece. And boom, I swear to you, I don't know that I pizza, like any bloating or no bloating, no gas, no unpleasant trip to the bathroom, you know, hours or days later. Nothing like that. And it's all just from this little tiny freakin like thing. It's amazing. So but you need it because they took they took your pancreas which is a huge part in indigestion.

Lara 46:47
Yes. And, and with pancreatic enzymes. There is either it's a fine balance too little or too much have the same effect. And trying to find that happy medium. Sometimes it's just impossible. What's the effect? You get? Serious diarrhea.

Scott Benner 47:07
Yeah, that's what I thought. Too much or too little. Same. Same situation. Yeah, gotcha. Okay, which is fun. Really, really fun. Make you long for those oily stools.

Lara 47:22
I'll take that.

Scott Benner 47:25
Weird to draw your lines. Oh,

Lara 47:27
my life is full of gross mess. Let me tell you. What happens. You

Scott Benner 47:31
bring the inside outside. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you've alluded to this a couple of times, but you really like me, I haven't let you dig into it. Because I'm in. I'm trying to be modest. But the podcast helped you with your diabetes care. Like, in totality. This is where you learned about it. Okay. 100%.

Lara 47:50
I taught, I took what they told me at the diabetes educator, I threw it out the window. I've only actually had one appointment with my endocrinologist. Then this all went down and managed myself and learned to be bold and brave with the insulin so that I wasn't getting the huge spikes that I had. But it was the episode where Jen name is Jen. She had a total pancreatectomy as well. She was actually my gateway in the Google search for finding like people like me. And that's how I found it and haven't stopped listening. Since. Let

Scott Benner 48:32
me tell you, I mentioned earlier that there's something I have to tell you, right. Yesterday, I mean, I have a fairly robust Facebook group. And I forget I posted something yesterday and someone, a lot of times people use my threads just to find me, which is smart. Because tagging me at this point is it's difficult. I have trouble seeing all my tags. She just asks out of nowhere. Have you ever had somebody on with T three C. And I thought I definitely have like I thought of Jen right away. But what but then what I thought was, and I'm about to sit down with somebody who I think has it because this was like literally like two hours ago that I saw this post. And I thought I had looked at my I did. I did brush my eyes over my calendar this morning. Like as I was getting ready to sit down to do this. And so I'm like sitting here answering messages and at the same time setting up the file for you. And I'm basically I opened up my calendar to like put your name in the file. And I saw it and then what struck me was it said, What's your connection to diabetes? And it said other and I was like other what does that mean? And I scrolled and then I saw, I am a pancreatic cancer survivor. And then I saw all your notes and I was like, huh, and so then I finished responding to the person online. I said, and ironically, I'm interviewing someone today. Like who has that be like you know who has this situation? And that's incredibly odd because people do not ask me about it with any frequency. I mean, is that really insane? I thought so. Yeah. So okay, so you found Jan's which is hers is just called type three see right?

Lara 50:09
I think it says Jen has no pancreas.

Scott Benner 50:13
Oh yeah, I do name things like a four year old it's not my fault. I was not I was not well educated. I don't have a lot of big words at my disposal. Let's see. Yeah, let me see if I can find it. I'll tell people what episode it is. Okay, what do we got here? Pre Owned pancreas, owner of a useless pancreas, to artificial pancreas studies. You too can build an artificial pancreas Kelly's bionic pancreas? I was that not it? Was pancreas not Lord in the title. I started rolling. Jen had a pancreatectomy. Episode 279. There it is, if you want to hear that, oh, that was years ago. Oh my god. I've been doing this forever about that. 2019 Okay, well, that was about time we had somebody else on to share their story. So that's, that's really great of you to do. You mentioned before we started recording today that this is out of your wheelhouse, like being on the podcast, but you just want to help other people?

Lara 51:14
I do I have an innate desire to help people. It's just who I am. And I think that with this platform, and the things that I've gone through, there is a lot of help or support or hope or whatever can be offered. And for people that are going through this. That is everything. So

Scott Benner 51:38
once the surgery is done, and you kind of you know, you find the podcast and you figure out how to take care of your blood sugars and everything, how what's the length of time it's been from? Well, I guess first from the surgery, how long it's March 2021 was the surgery. Is that right?

Lara 51:53
It was March 2020 to 2022 Excuse

Scott Benner 51:57
me. Okay, so that's a year in more than a half ago. Yeah. For the surgery. And you did the six months of chemo. I did at the end of chemo. rang the bell. They told you you were clean the whole thing. The

Lara 52:14
whole nine yards. Yep, totally clean scans were clean. There was no sign of cancer and because I didn't do my research and they stayed off the Google I didn't realize that this is something that recurs even like they told me my margins were clear. Everything was good there. Everything they took 32 lymph nodes as well. They were all clear. So after the six months of really strong chemo, which also that chemo I will tell you is infused in sugar water over 46 hours. Which is good for diabetic

Scott Benner 52:55
Bolus for chemo. Bolus

Lara 52:57
chemo and they said keep you're trying to keep your sugar's at 10. Okay, well 16 to 22 was the average over those three days of chemo.

Scott Benner 53:09
Did you get the bone pain? After chemo? Yeah. Did anything help it?

Lara 53:17
I take like a Tylenol three. Mostly it bothers me at nighttime. It gives me restless legs and the bone pain in my legs is is pretty bad. So codeine Tylenol, codeine helps with

Scott Benner 53:30
that. Did they give you anything for the Restless Leg besides the coding?

Lara 53:34
No. And I've had restless legs for years off and on but it just gets exacerbated like crazy on chemo nights. It makes chemo nights are impossible to sleep just from the jiggly legs and the pain.

Scott Benner 53:47
There's a medicine that helped my mom with legs. I'll ask my brothers and see if I can get you an answer. Cool. Oh, shit. Laura. I'm sorry. Yeah. So I'm sorry. So you did the chemo. And it was really aggressive and you're clean margins, but you didn't know that it has a likelihood of coming back. They didn't tell you.

Lara 54:09
They didn't tell me this. There was zero discussion of reoccurrence? Yeah,

Scott Benner 54:14
they told my mom like, this is an aggressive cancer you have but you know, it's, you know, it's here and your ovaries and we're gonna take all that out, like my mom got a whole hysterectomy. Right? So we're gonna take all that out and you're clean and blah, blah, blah. And, but then nobody really said anything about like, but it could come back and it was crazy because ovarian cancer eventually takes my mom but she didn't have ovaries anymore. So if you're a lay person you think that doesn't make sense. Like you don't I mean, like how could I have finger cancer if my fingers gone? But turns out you can. Right So are they tracking you? Did you get markers or symptoms? How did you know that there was a recurrence?

Lara 54:57
So in July I had my first scheduled follow up. So they were the plan for me was to do scans and bloodwork every six months for three years. And then yearly after that for two years. So July was my first six month follow up. And because of our beautiful free medical system here in Canada, my CT scan that should have occurred in July actually wasn't scheduled until the end of September. But I went for the bloodwork and they were tracking my see a 99 tumor marker. And when I got that result, because we can check those lab results on yourself. I was sitting at home that day, I had had this test done and my tumor marker came back at 18 123. And normal is under 27.

Scott Benner 55:56
And they gave you a scan, they couldn't find any masses, but they tell you we're gonna track the marker and we're gonna go back to chemo is that about the plan. So

Lara 56:04
they put, they put in a request to get the scan done in a stop manner. And I ended up having to pay for a private PET scan because I couldn't get one done in a timely manner here and I was gonna have to drive for hours to get it. And I don't know if you noticed that with a PET scan, you have to be off all insulin for six hours before a PET scan. And when you are insulin dependent, that that's a feat in itself. It has to be below 10 Your structures have to be below 10. But without insulin

Scott Benner 56:39
without insulin. What do you just starve yourself? Yes, yeah, pretty much.

Lara 56:45
So I did I did it. But I thought driving for hours do that. I wasn't gonna do it. So we paid to have a private PET scan done, which showed spread. So I have no pancreas. But the pancreatic cancer cells were showing on my liver, kidneys and lymph nodes. But there was three masses that they could see on my liver

Scott Benner 57:11
so they could see masses already. How long ago was this? This

Lara 57:15
was in July, four months ago? Yeah.

Scott Benner 57:20
Well, first of all, you're not nearly the only Canadian I know who can't get in for simple testing. And so there's an argument to be made like, yeah, healthcare is really expensive in America. But at the very least, if you're waving cash around, somebody will see you. Yes. You know, like, so. You know, I have insurance. There's someone to bill a we can get you in. But in Canada? Yeah. I think I know this to be true. From people's personal experiences. They basically, it's whoever is going to die first is at the top of the list. So yeah, great. So you could have a problem that isn't, you know, imminent. And you could you could end up waiting a year or more to get treatment for it. And that's not that's not uncommon, from what I understand. It's not uncommon at all. Yes, some provinces are apparently better than others. Were I guess, again, I should say province, but you don't know you sound like that. Right? It's just the idea. Oh, yeah, yeah. So you get put in that's, so they would have killed you. If you didn't pay for the PET scan. That's right. And you ran the risk of your sled dogs being picked up on the scan by mistake. So you had to go Yeah, right. Right. I understand what's going on up there. Don't you worry. And the bobbin will snowman and all the stuff you guys have? Yep. So oh my god. So yeah, like, let's really think about that for a second. If you would have waited on their schedule. All these masses are growing the entire time. That's right. There's no way you would have lit Yeah, when

Lara 58:47
I finally got in for my provincially paid for CT scan. It took 17 days for it to be read by a

Scott Benner 58:56
radiologist. Oh, that's not bad. Just 17 to

Lara 59:00
17 shows cancer but 17 days before it was read by a radiologist. Okay, I already knew that I had cancer because the PET scan told me this. And but and the blood blood work showed me this. But then the oncologist wouldn't go by my private PET scan and they were waiting for to see takedown results.

Scott Benner 59:23
It really they wouldn't look at the scan you had done. Note

Lara 59:27
we had to hand deliver the images and the reports to them for them to put in the file but they were waiting for the CT scan. We had to drive an hour to this facility, get a CD ROM disk or whatever

Scott Benner 59:42
I remember. Yeah,

Lara 59:45
old school, deliver it hand deliver it to the BC Cancer Center. Someone

Scott Benner 59:49
just had me fax something for an insurance thing. And I said, Am I sending it to 87 Like what are we doing? Yeah, I can't just send you a PDF and they're like, no, no, no, there's like Oh, why doesn't anyone ever stop and wonder why, like,

Lara 1:00:06
I asked these questions all the time. And

Scott Benner 1:00:09
by the way, at least, you know, a handful of years ago, Trudeau was at least handsome now, he's a little chubby. So you're not even getting anything out of that anymore. You know? Canada, I'm shaking my head to Canada and you got all that? Oh,

Lara 1:00:23
I am yeah, I'm shaking my head everyday to like what the actual

Scott Benner 1:00:28
also large so I'm sorry so this doesn't sound positive. So I mean, obviously chemo and and I guess you're getting infusions to shrink swell. Yeah, right.

Lara 1:00:38
I am. So I have opted for a few things. And I do have some positive. I do have some positivity to talk about because I am doing very, very well. So I have started on gym side of me and Abraxane combination chemo, which is different from the first chemo. They told me that the first time the cancer cells have already seen this drug, or these drugs, it was a four dose combination. And they're still here. So I opted to try something different, which is not the first line treatment. It's second line. So it is working well for me. My recent scans show that there is delineation there is shrinkage. There is no evidence in the kidneys any longer. Wow. The liver masses, the three of them, they are shrinking and delineated. So I'm also along with what I'm doing. The chemo I'm doing high dose vitamin C infusions and hyperthermia treatments along with a million supplements through a naturopath.

Scott Benner 1:01:47
Which things are you doing cold plunge you just walking outside? I'm

Lara 1:01:51
actually the hyperthermia is old plunging, although I have considered it. haven't done it yet. I'm a little bit of a chicken.

Scott Benner 1:02:02
there's anything left to be afraid of. Yeah,

Lara 1:02:06
the hyperthermia is where they heat the tumor. So tumors cancer can't live. Anything over 40 degrees.

Scott Benner 1:02:13
Oh, like you said hyper, not hypo. I'm sorry.

Lara 1:02:17
That's okay. So yeah, hyperthermia, so I it's targeted treatment. So I lay in this water bed type thing. And then they have a panel that goes over top of you. And it sends heat up and down. So it heats the tumors, which then help the die off. So you do that a day after you do chemo. And then the day after that. So two days in a row, along with high dose vitamin C infusions by IV, and

Scott Benner 1:02:45
this is being provided by Canada or you're no longer paying for this yourself, right?

Lara 1:02:52
Yeah, it's $655 for one treatment.

Scott Benner 1:02:58
Jesus, so I did. Wondering when you said the tumors were shrinking, it made me cry. You got me. Thank

Lara 1:03:05
you. So I've been told that 1/3 of pancreatic cancer patients don't respond to treatment. 1/3 Respond moderately 1/3 respond. Well, I am in the third of that third that are responding exceptionally well.

Scott Benner 1:03:23
Good for you. That's lovely. And I have a I'm determined well, and maybe I have an answer for you. My brother sent me the answer. So roping the role, but it's commonly known as Requip, and it's a Parkinson's and restless leg drug. So our E qu, IP.

Lara 1:03:45
Okay, I'm gonna look into that. Ask about that. Because it's burrito.

Scott Benner 1:03:50
We tried a number of different things to help my mom My mom was like, it's doing some like drugs at the, you know, for the for the restless leg in the bone pain at one point, and we just kept pushing and pushing and Requip was one of the things that actually helped her.

Lara 1:04:03
Cool, that's good to know. Like to hear that, meanwhile,

Scott Benner 1:04:07
you're gonna have to call a doctor, then they'll return your call in 17 days. And then you'll mention that you heard on a podcast, they'll say, I'm sorry, we have to do our own testing. And then they'll give you an appointment for nine years from now and your legs just stop shaking about the time that you die of natural causes. And you're 90 So that'll be perfect. Yeah. Oh, you

Lara 1:04:26
got this Canadian medical system down, Pat,

Scott Benner 1:04:28
but it's free. Right. You know why? It's not worth any money. Yeah, yeah. You shouldn't live here because people still bring up Canada. They're like, Oh, it's free in Canada. I'm like, Have you ever spoken to a Canadian?

Lara 1:04:45
Oh, yeah. Americans, especially with pancreatic cancer are so far ahead of the game and standards of care. It's unbelievable the things that can happen down there in these big medical centers. If I was rich man, I would be down there and I'd be getting a nanoknife surgery and you name it, I would get it all.

Scott Benner 1:05:07
I mean, there's no listen, there's no doubt it varying degrees of, you know, everything that the luck of the draw of where you're born and how much money is in somebody's pocket is a lot to do with the kind of care you got. And you can, you know, whine and complain all you want that it's unfair, but that's how the world works. And it's what it is. So that's really a self advocate, advocate. That's

Lara 1:05:31
all you can do to keep

Scott Benner 1:05:32
arguing that's for sure. I have found recently Jenny and I are doing a series that is aimed at doctors, I keep being upset by the word advocate. Because I know what the intention of it doesn't exactly match the reality of it. Like people are like, you have to advocate for yourself, which means like, which should mean what, like, you know, don't you're asking for things you should just have anyway. And that they should give you an egg. So you're telling me like, I haven't talked you into doing your job more completely? Like that, like, I need to understand what I need medically or else it won't happen. Yep. And then by the way, when I bring it up, you're gonna yell at me and tell me not to look at the internet? How the hell do you want me to understand this, that you're telling me? You either know and won't do it? Or don't know? Either way? I'm not comforted by that answer. And so I come to you and push you to do more. But I need information about what that means. So I go to the internet. So I turn to you and I go, Hey, look, I read online, you read online? Like, wait, what? Yeah, I don't know. It's upsetting. Seriously, the word just keeps pissing me off, because I don't think it should have it shouldn't exist. You don't I mean,

Lara 1:06:44
it's you shouldn't have to, I actually have to oncologists, one that my one that I started with, and the one that I was really referred back to. And apparently he's very brilliant. But trying to have a conversation with him. Like, I'm very real. I like to ask questions. Unless he's read it in a textbook or it comes out of a textbook, he can't have an off the cuff conversation about anything. So I have found a second oncologist who is teaming up with him, that's my real talk guy. And he I can ask him stuff I, he's the one who gives me the positivity and the good notes and the and the high fives, whereas the other one basically looks at me and says, Well, we can't cure you. We're just prolonging your life. And this is how it's going to be. And this other guy's like, we're gonna get you into some clinical trials. And I've talked to this other specialist. So the help is there. Unfortunately, you really do have to look for it yourself. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:07:44
no, that's exactly right. And that advice, and experience clearly translates back to managing diabetes. And, you know, like, if people are like, Oh, God, he's talking about cancers and diabetes podcasts, what are we doing? It's all very specific to just helping yourself. If you take what someone tells you, you are very frequently not going to end up well. Like, you know, I don't know if you've heard me talk about this on the podcast, and I am going to try to get through this real quickly. My mom only got the surgery to remove her cancer, because my neighbor's son grew up to be a surgeon, and he went to medical school with a girl who eventually ended up in OB oncology. And so I could ask my neighbor, if it was cool if I texted his son, when I texted his son, I said, Is there any chance you know, somebody that can be helpful with this because the oncologist my mom has seen, will not help her. It he was talking about like just hospice and you know, follow up. My mom got two more years. And instead, he was just going to manage her into the ground over the idea that he, he said, I'm not going to kill your mom and surgery, which my neighbor's son told me translates to pay his hospital, keep score. And if someone dies in his surgery, his score goes down. And I was like, Are you serious? That's the important stuff. Right? Right. And so I'm like, Okay, so he's like, don't worry. I know a girl from med school. So he calls his girl. That girl is like, oh, yeah, I work for this guy. He's amazing. And two days later, my mom and I are sitting in an appointment and the guy is scheduling her surgery. Amazing with my neighbor's kid grows up and does something different. My mom dies two years earlier. That is not an over exaggeration. And that's not acceptable. Yeah. Is that how this is all supposed to work? Like, right? I'm lucky because my I don't know. That's ridiculous. By the way, the guy on the other sides kid is an engineer. So I guess good thing I bought on this side of the street, like you know, do you mean like, how was it that random? Ridiculous on TV? You guys are right now like Scott, one of your neighbors kids is an engineer, the other one's a surgeon and yours Your son's got a quantitative econ degree where the hell do you live? I'm in a castle. Okay. Yeah, the castle. Yeah, the freakin point is what the hell? Yeah,

Lara 1:10:03
I have thought my way through everything I thought I have thought a thought I thought for myself and even when it comes down to diabetic technology like I, they made me wait a year before I could get the Omni pod. I asked to switch to the ducks calm like, those are all things that I took control over myself and and forced the issue because they would have just let me keep going. Status Quo and I know there's better.

Scott Benner 1:10:32
Yeah, listen, people die, okay. And some people don't have great care. And that's a fact of life. But what you need to understand is that the people you're talking to, they try very hard to see you as a person. But honestly, you're a drop in a stream. Yep. And when you look at a stream, you don't see droplets of water, you see water rushing by. And so if you want to be treated like a special drop, you need to take care of yourself, because everyone else is just at work doing their best. You know what I mean? Like I listen, if you have a really nice car, and you take it in for new tires, and it gets scratched later, they didn't see your really nice car and think like, oh my god, it's a Mercedes, I should try harder. They got 50 cars, they got to change tires on today. That's that. And this, this, whether you want to hear it or not medicines exactly the same way. It's just like, it's not that they're bad people. They're not bad people. They're fantastic people, they went to college for 10 goddamn years so they can figure out how to get inside you and take out your pancreas without killing you. I mean, that's amazing. You know what I mean? Like, God bless them. And thank you. But the system? Yep, the process is where if you're not, if you're not on top of it, then somebody else is like so. You know, I grew up around here, so I'm more accustomed to killer be killed lifestyle. Because that's just, I mean, if for you guys that live in the south, and everybody's like, Oh, I'm gonna go to lunch and two hours later, I'll do it like you would, you know, that doesn't happen here. Like, you're out there trying to get ahead constantly. You know what I mean? Like, you're not just climbing a ladder, you're also kicking with your foot as you're going up making sure nobody's following you. And and that is not a good way to live. This wasn't my point. But when you have that, that inside of you, it helps with this other stuff. Like if you've ever listened to the podcast, and they're like, how did Scott get that first thought or how did like, I would never accept anything less. That's how

Lara 1:12:29
I'm that's the thing. You don't have to you don't have to accept anything, just need

Scott Benner 1:12:34
to know what to do. And often people don't have the knowledge of like, where to go next? Or who to speak to or like, you know, even if you have all this person vinegar, like where do I point it? Exactly? Yeah, you know, absolutely. Just, I can't say that. It's, it's just so true. It just, it just really is, you know, I just happen to be a person who won't, I won't accept that. And I will reset the hill all day on every day. So like, you don't want to, like get into a thing with me. I won't give up. You know, and but I have people in my family. My mom was like, well, they said they can't do anything. And I was like, no, no, my mom like that's for other people. We're gonna work this out, you know? And so it's me too. Yeah. Good for you. It's why you're here. Yeah,

Lara 1:13:20
I'm already defying the odds with this timeframe. So

Scott Benner 1:13:23
keep going? Yeah, good for you. And when does your daughter graduate? Did you say she

Lara 1:13:30
graduates this year? So her grad will be in June of this year?

Scott Benner 1:13:33
Can I ask a hard question? Yes. She's young. So obviously, you and your husband have had private conversations. But when do you? When do you bring your your child into it? And say, look, mommy's fighting. We're doing all these things. This is what's going right. But we should have a conversation about the things I haven't said to you yet that you might need to know, especially a person like you who knows the value of talking to their mother even in their mid 40s. So have you done that? Are you thinking about it? Yeah,

Lara 1:14:05
that's that's the hard one for me, because and this is where I'll cry. Though, those conversations do happen. And we're pretty real about things around here. And there's a few things that I'm working on for her so that she has some things for from me, after I'm not here should something terrible happened to me in an untimely manner? Well, I'm not ready. But we do have the real talk about about those things. And unfortunately, that brings forward a lot of emotion and and for a 17 or should be 17. This month. It's really hard to regulate those emotions around those things. So we're trying to learn to be patient and graceful with each other, giving each other grace and space and time But there's definitely some some work still to be done in that regards with her and the family. But at this point I'm focusing on doing well. Ah, it consumes me

Scott Benner 1:15:18
Of course, right? I mean, because what do you what do you start thinking about? Something you want to say to her on her wedding day? Or if she has a baby, like that kind of stuff, right? Yeah,

Lara 1:15:27
exactly that. And I saw I saw in one of the feeds on Facebook, it was a going away to college like, photo album with notes and gift cards and that kind of thing for spare specific days along the way. And I was kind of working on that, or one page would have like, a photograph and then a little note from me and and go get a manicure or buy someone a coffee or something like that. So I'm focusing on on those kinds of things and then preparing for the eventualities. Should I not be there at first, I wasn't sure I was going to be here for her graduation, but I'm pretty confused. I'm pretty sure that that's going to be a Okay, given how things are going.

Scott Benner 1:16:12
That's amazing.

Lara 1:16:13
But beyond that, I don't know. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:16:16
I saw these two girls on Tiktok. Maybe. And they're not not that old. They're they they felt to me, like between 19. And like 22 like that, that age their sisters, right. And I guess they lost their mom to cancer. And they get together once in a while and tell their mom into a tick tock video, all the things that that that they you're thinking it's going to be something sweet. They tell them all that they tell their mom all the things they've screwed up or didn't tell her when she was alive or something like that. It's pretty hilarious. And I love unburden themselves to their mother through Tiktok. Their their mother has passed. And at one point, the great one of the girls just starts cackling laughing and she goes, I drove my car for a year without insurance. I didn't know you needed it like and she's just like laughing. And she's like, I think they get on. They're like, Mom, here's all the things we've done since you're gone, that I know you'd be disappointed by and they just start rattling off stuff. It's very fun kind of love that. Yeah, it's very funny, actually. And it made me feel good for them. Because they were really like, together. Just they were laughing heartily. Like they, they, they were remembering their mom in a really lovely way. And at the same time, I think there was some, like, child, like, Hey, I screwed a couple things up. And I need to tell somebody, like it was really interesting. So but again, we're not going to think about that for you know, but it would be I mean, I don't know how I call myself good at this and don't ask you that question. So I appreciate you answering

Lara 1:17:47
no, seriously. Yeah, no, it's it's the real, it's the real talk about this stuff. I mean, there's so many different layers, and, and so many things to think about and plans to make both good and bad. But I think in actuality, everybody needs to be prepared for that, because life changes in a second.

Scott Benner 1:18:08
Yeah. And you know, what else to like, I could get all granola here and say something, and it'll sound like both, but it's actually true. Having the idea, like, we all live with the idea generally, that we're going to live forever, right? You know, like, we all feel like, well, we'll live in our 80s. And, you know, by the time I go, I'll be paying on myself, and I won't care anymore. Or I say stupid stuff. Like, I'm gonna like, I can't wait to like pinch nurses in a nursing home, because nobody will say anything. Like, like, like, I want to get to that age, you know? Yeah. But the truth is, is that there, there would be value in knowing your expiration date. Because, you know, it's hard to think about, but you know, even for me, like my son's not married, if I was gonna get hit by a car tomorrow, I'd spend the rest of today writing things down to my children and my wife and letting them know what I want. I want them to know, but I don't know that. So instead, if I get whacked tomorrow by a car, or if, hey, let's be more realistic learner. What if I tried to clean the skin toilet and almost killed myself? Okay, and so like, what if I have a terrible toilet cleaning accident? And I'm dead? And I'd never by the way, do you think my kids would care about my advice? If that's how I die? Probably not. What do we listen to this guy for? killed himself with a spray bottle? Oh, anyway, I would I would have the wherewithal to do some of the things that you're thinking about. And, you know, it's not a thing you want to think about happening. But if it's going to happen, then isn't it a blessing of sorts to know and be able to prepare? And not a blessing for well, you know what I was gonna say not a blessing for you, but maybe because you get to live through those emotions as hard as they are. But then, you know, 510 years from now, your daughter gets the have your thoughts with her, you know, yeah. And so I don't know there's an argument for me. Yeah, yeah, there's an argument to be made like you're what you're trying to do. If you're trying to complete your contract as a parent, even if you're not going to be able to stay for the entire employment base,

Lara 1:20:07
that's right. Yeah. Yep. That's a good way to look at it.

Scott Benner 1:20:10
Of course it is. It's easy to say, of course, for me, as I do not currently have cancer, but for you, I just think is the person talking to you and listening to you? That makes sense to me. Yeah. So yeah, well, you have such a good attitude. Can I ask that my last question is, how are you maintaining this good attitude? Well, are you on the Canadian weed? Is that what's going on? No, I,

Lara 1:20:33
I think if you asked me before, I was quite a very pessimistic person. But I quickly learned that this is not a time for pessimism, because I am just simply not ready. And I know that I subscribe now to the thoughts that what you put out there, you be specific about you, you keep your attitude positive, even when it's not some days, I fake it. And some days, I don't, but I have an immense support system. I have so much support from family and friends. That has helped a great deal. And I think honestly, it's just, it's just had, I've had to take a mind switch and change. I had to Yeah, otherwise I wasn't going to be getting out of bed every day. And I wasn't going to be putting in the effort to get dressed. And I was very in those early stages, I realized that I was gonna go downhill very, very quickly if I if I didn't turn that around. So I just I work. It's something I work at every day. And I try to keep myself out of the news and and surround myself with positive stories.

Scott Benner 1:21:49
Yeah, I bet you cancer really makes you stop caring about global warming pretty quick. Pretty quick. Yeah, you're like, who are they gonna vote it and you're like, don't care?

Lara 1:21:59
What's going on in the world? I really don't know situations.

Scott Benner 1:22:01
Yeah. Myself. Yeah, my situation just changed. I don't care what you do. That's fine. Oh, you discovered a new plant? Did you? Don't care? Well, me, I know you came on to help other people. But I'm going to end by thanking you for doing something kind for me, which you don't know that you did. To know that. I did something that helped you. With it felt very good for me, and really did well. And you're, you're nice to say that. And I'm not unaware of the reach and the impact of the podcast. But for some reason, this coupled not for some reason for pretty obvious reasons. That knowledge coupled with you also struggling with cancer. And what as recently, you know, transpired with my mom, it, you know, because there's part of me that thinks I didn't help my mom enough. And I know that's not to trust me, like, intellectually, I understand that's not true. But Emotionally, it feels like I could have made a couple of better decisions along the way or to zig when we sagged or something like that. Or, you know, I was listening to this thing the other day, I learned about this supplement that helps with your blood pressure. And my mom couldn't take her infusions after chemo because her blood pressure was too high. And I thought, Oh, I wonder if this supplement would have brought her blood pressure down. And then she could have kept taking the the infusions that were going to keep away the ovarian cancer and would she have lived longer? And like that's a really unreasonable thing to think so I don't consciously think it I want to be clear, like I'm not sitting around beating myself up about that. Yeah, but emotionally, it hurts. And when you said what you said, you you emotionally made me feel better. I thought, like, oh, this lady's has this struggle. And I made this thing and it made it better for like, it didn't fix it, but it made it better. And anyway, so you, you've made me feel good. I appreciate it.

Lara 1:23:57
I'm so glad. I really enjoy the podcast. I shared it with others. I don't know. I think there's value in it for a lot of

Scott Benner 1:24:08
people. Yep. I also defy other people to make a 90 minute podcast about pancreatic cancer, where you laugh and curse as much as we did. I thought we had a good time. We did. Yeah, I did. I did enjoy it. Well, thank you so much for doing this. If you hold on for just one second, I like to talk to you after we're done recording.

Lara 1:24:24
Yeah, you bet.

Scott Benner 1:24:33
Thanks so much to Laura for coming on the show and sharing her story with us. A huge thanks to Dexcom for supporting the podcast and for sponsoring this episode dexcom.com/juicebox Go get yourself a Dexcom g7 right now using my link. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash G spox you spell that? G VOKEGLUC AG o n.com forward slash juicebox

if you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones, it doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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