Scott Benner 7/20/25 Scott Benner 7/20/25

#1580 Best of Juicebox: Pro Tip Fat and Protein

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Remastered Diabetes Pro Tip: Fat & Protein
Scott and Jenny Smith, CDE share insights on type 1 diabetes care

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

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Scott Benner 7/18/25 Scott Benner 7/18/25

#1579 John Cena

Anonymous female guest shares 20-year diabetes journey, divorce, and resilience in an honest, powerful, and unforgettable conversation.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back, friends. You are listening to the Juicebox Podcast.

Anonymous Female Speaker 0:13
Hi, I'm I've been type one diabetic for 20 years, diagnosed in 2005 and I am now 36 years old,

Scott Benner 0:22
check out my algorithm pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod five loop, Medtronic 780, G twist, tandem control IQ and much more. Each episode will dive into the setup features and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type one diabetes management. We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care. If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the algorithm pumping series in the Juicebox Podcast, easiest way. Juicebox podcast.com, and go up into the menu, click on series and it'll be right there. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the juice box podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. This episode of the juice box podcast is sponsored by us med. Us med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514, get your supplies the same way we do from us. Med, this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod five, and at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox you can get yourself a free, what I just say a free Omnipod five starter kit, free. Get out of here. Go click on that link, omnipod.com/juicebox, check it out. Terms and Conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox links in the show notes, links at Juicebox podcast.com,

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:03
Hi, I'm I've been type one diabetic for 20 years, diagnosed in 2005 and I am now 36

Scott Benner 2:10
years old, right? You diagnosed in 2005 is 2020 so it's 20 years you said that? Yep, I got it. You were like 1516,

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:18
ish, yeah, it was the month before my 16th birthday. Oh, awesome. Sweet 16. Sweet 16. I got a cell phone before all of my siblings did. They got theirs at 16, but because I had diabetes, I got mine at 15. Look at you showing off right away, a whole month early. You know, I just

Scott Benner 2:35
met because your blood sugar was high, it was really a sweet 16. Oh, that true, that that's true. You're like a you're like a Canadian tree up there. I just want to start off by saying, I love that. It says, You guys fill out a little form before you come in. It's not very long, yep. It just says, like, what are some of the themes you hope to cover in your episode? And she says, honestly, I have no idea. Yep,

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:54
absolutely. So no idea. Take the conversation where you will.

Scott Benner 2:59
It'll be fun. Well, we can do that. Other siblings, anybody else in your family, have diabetes?

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:04
No one with type one diabetes, type two diabetes, for my mom and my dad's pre diabetic, but no one else with type one it's just

Scott Benner 3:12
me okay. And you have any other autoimmune issues? I do.

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:14
I have Hashimotos, of course, of course. I mean it, you know, they come in pairs,

Scott Benner 3:19
right? Seem like it comes in a match set sometimes, that's

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:22
right, it does, but that's so far. That's the only other autoimmune Oh,

Scott Benner 3:26
okay, all right, not bad so far. Do you have a feeling like something's coming?

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:30
Don't we always have a feeling that something's coming? At least I do. I'm like, yeah, we'll see what happens down the line. But

Scott Benner 3:37
is that, like, just generalized concern, or do you actually, like, have symptoms of things that make you think something

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:44
might No, no, just general, like, you know, I expect whatever is going to happen is going to happen. I don't focus on it, but I just assume.

Scott Benner 3:52
How was it growing up with type one diabetes, it was,

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:56
you know, difficult at times pretty I had a lot of support. You know, my my mom was there with me the whole time, and my dad was supportive of my mom being there with me the whole time, and he never got into like, the management side, but my mom did, giving me my shots and helping me do all of those things. My sisters were already graduated and out of the house, so they never really lived with me with it, but I did have So ever since I was like, four or five, they thought I had type one diabetes then, and I was actually tested, and they did that whole long glucose tolerance test where they just, you know, give you sugar, check your blood every couple hours. Yeah, they did that when I was four or five, and my mom always got confused, because the results actually came back with me in like, the 250s and three hundreds, but then they told her that I had hypoglycemia, so I had low blood sugar, because I would also just randomly feel like I was going to pass out and need sugar, like, ever since I can remember, oh yeah. So it was, it was really interesting, because I talked to my mom about it recently. I'm like, I. Remember going, that's like, one of my first childhood memories is going to the hospital, getting an IV, because that was terrible, and having my blood drawn every two hours, and that whole thing

Scott Benner 5:10
so but you've really thrown the gauntlet down on me here. You don't realize this, but in your note, you said, I've had a pretty uneventful life, and now I'm like, damn it, something had to happen. We're going to find out. Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, don't worry. I'm not. I'm not giving up. But you know, like, okay, it's not exciting. As a podcaster, when somebody's like, Hey, I don't know. I don't know what I want to come on about. My life's been pretty boring, but I want to figure it out. You're telling me when you're four or five years old, your mom thought you had type one diabetes. What made her think

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:38
that? I honestly don't know. I think it was the low blood sugar attacks that I would have. So like, I'm telling, like, I would just start shaking, that terrible feeling that you have a low blood sugar, just like I get now if I take too much insulin, okay? Except I would tell her, Mommy, I'm wilting. That's how I knew how to say it, because it felt like my whole body was just like, shutting down slowly, yeah, and like, like, a flower just wilting. So I guess she talked to the doctor about it, and they ordered the testing. And

Scott Benner 6:08
glucose tolerance test shows high blood sugars, but they say, Don't worry. She doesn't have type one diabetes. She has what do they call it hypoglycemia? That's all they say, okay, yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:17
because I think it was probably coming back into normal range pretty quickly, but it was spiking,

Scott Benner 6:23
okay. And now growing up from there, 5678, all those years, does the passing out? What does the wilting keep happening? Yes. Oh yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:33
yeah. My sisters used to tease me. They would say that I just wanted attention, because I would, you know, I would need, like, a soda or, you know, something with protein, just to They told my mom, get her sugar and then give her some protein to help it stay stabilized, right? So we'd be riding in the car, and I'd look up and I'm like, Mommy, I'm wilting. And so she got to pull into a, you know, Jiffy store and get something real quickly

Scott Benner 6:52
for me. Are you a poet? Now? What? How is five year old? You going with wilting

Anonymous Female Speaker 6:57
to describe? No idea. It's the most ridiculous thing. No, I mean, it's not, but

Scott Benner 7:01
like, Do you have a like, a great grasp of language? Are you wandering around? Oh, no, no, no. All right, so it's a thing you heard one time, and you're like, this applies to how I feel right now, I

Anonymous Female Speaker 7:11
assume. So, yeah, like, it just felt like my whole like, because it would start like, in my hands and my legs, and it would just, like, slowly,

Scott Benner 7:17
like, you know, was there a rhyme or reason to when it happened, not

Anonymous Female Speaker 7:21
that we could figure out, no now we did realize quickly, I guess, like sugary cereals in the morning was not a good thing for me, because it would cause me to go low later in the day.

Scott Benner 7:33
So if you taxed your system, it overreacted,

Anonymous Female Speaker 7:37
correct? Yeah. Okay, yep. So we just tried to avoid that. My poor mom had to get up and make, you know, whole breakfast, breakfast in the morning. Was she not up for that? No, she was. She was great. Okay, I feel bad for her now, because I don't do that for my kids. Like,

Scott Benner 7:51
listen, whatever's

Anonymous Female Speaker 7:53
that freezer was like,

Scott Benner 7:53
stellar. How many sisters? Two sisters? Any brothers? No, no, just those wicked sisters that would not believe you that you didn't feel well. Were you the youngest?

Anonymous Female Speaker 8:03
Yeah, I was, yep. Gotcha. I'm the youngest. Do you

Scott Benner 8:07
remind them now how they mocked you even though you had an illness?

Anonymous Female Speaker 8:10
Oh, for sure. Oh yeah. We talk about it. They still joke and tease. Like, oh, you just, I think sometimes you just wanted the attention. I was like, I don't know. I don't

Scott Benner 8:18
remember that. Do you have like, a 40 year old sister now who goes, Oh, she's wealthing. Does that still come up pretty

Anonymous Female Speaker 8:24
much, yeah, yeah. We still, we'll joke about it at like, holidays and such fun family.

Scott Benner 8:29
Yeah, so much fun. But have they ever like, apologized, like a sincere like, Hey, I'm sorry we did that. Not that

Anonymous Female Speaker 8:37
I can think of, but I mean, they're not like, the way that we tease about it now is clear that they're like, Oh yeah, I guess we probably should have believed you, but not like, a sincere like, Hey, I'm really sorry that that, but we did that. No,

Scott Benner 8:49
yeah, I want to be clear. Like, I don't think it's such a big deal. But I just interviewed somebody last week who was diagnosed as an adult with type one after having grown up their whole life with a sister I type one, ah, she describes that, you know, she's sorry for sorry, such a weird word, but like, she's sorry for not fully understanding better what her sister was going through while they were growing up. Because she didn't, she minimized that. She thought,

Anonymous Female Speaker 9:15
yeah, I could see that, yeah, and I've always, I mean, I share with them some different things, like, when I've had a win or success, you know, I share my a one CS and, like, the group chat and stuff like that, one of my sisters will say, like, I never know what it really means, but I'm really proud of you, because it's clear that you're working hard at this, and it's not easy. She

Scott Benner 9:33
don't have Google. Is she good? You know, busy

Anonymous Female Speaker 9:38
with kids and life and all the things. So because, like I said, they've never lived with me with it, so they don't see the day in, the day out

Scott Benner 9:45
stuff. I would probably send a full report back in that text chat that explained day one season. I'd be like, Listen, if you love me, you'll study this and

Anonymous Female Speaker 9:52
figure out what this means. You will know what this is here. Listen to this podcast. Feel

Scott Benner 9:56
free to send over something about you that you'd like me to know. There you go. Happy to look into it. That's right, my brothers and I have a chat too. Yeah, yeah. It's nice.

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:06
Sisters and my mom, we all are

Scott Benner 10:07
you let your mom in. Oh, yeah, nice, yep. How old was your mom?

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:11
Oh, gosh, she was born in 63 How old does that

Scott Benner 10:15
make her? It makes her eight years older than me. So she's 61 maybe that sounds about right, yeah, that's weird that you don't know

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:26
I can remember their birth years. But like, keeping up with how old I am is hard, so that I understand I have to think about it. So keeping up with how old everyone else is,

Scott Benner 10:36
you're okay with this. Okay. So you are, like, wilting through your life, yep. So when you get type one diabetes, you must be super excited. Like, seriously, look, there's actually something wrong with

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:46
me, right? So excited, yeah, no, not quite, but no, it did kind of explain it, you know, it was like, oh, so maybe, maybe there was, this was happening this whole time, and this is why, you know,

Scott Benner 10:57
can you tell me what the run up to your type one looked like? Sure. So

Anonymous Female Speaker 11:01
I've always, I've always, I used to be a very skinny individual, like, always super thin, like, very, very thin. But right before my diagnosis, I really started to lose weight. I was five seven, and I think I weighed 67 pounds when I was diagnosed, which is very, very small and but it didn't seem like it was that crazy. I've always been small. I've always been tiny. But then the extreme thirst started, and I actually had a yeast infection that would not go away. And I finally went to my mom and like, I don't know what to do about this. We tried treating it at home. Didn't happen. Wasn't helping. Went to my first GYN appointment, and they dipped the urine, and I had ketones like crazy. So my OB, GYN actually diagnosed me, sent me for blood work, and came back that I was type one.

Scott Benner 11:53
Wow, that's pretty simple, yeah, yeah. And actually, your life is uneventful,

Anonymous Female Speaker 11:59
hey. Well, I mean, as far as diabetes goes, it has been unemplo, yes, yeah,

Scott Benner 12:06
but yeah. I mean, seriously though, right? Like, your mom's very involved, right? So did you guys figure it out? And, like, just get on your way. And what was management like? Yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 12:14
So I found out on a Monday, went to the hospital, did the whole week stay. They did the whole training. Here's how to coward count. Here's your insulin. Make sure you Pre Bolus. Make sure you do this and do that. And then we were just kind of on our way. I remember leaving, leaving the hospital, going straight to the mall. My mom bought me, like, a backpack purse, because she's like, you're gonna have a lot of stuff to carry around. Let's get you a new purse. Let's make this, you know, she was trying to make it exciting and, like, here's a consolation prize. Let's, you know, go shopping for a little while. And yeah, we got set up at home and started weighing food and counting carbs. And when she was there, she would, she would give me my shots, which was great, because I was still terrified of needles, like hand shaking every time I would give a shot, even pricking my finger was the same way, but overcame all that clearly. But

Scott Benner 13:07
yeah, all right, that's it. Do you needles the thing? And when did you get a CGM for the first time?

Anonymous Female Speaker 13:12
Oh, I did not get a CGM. So I think I got a CGM two years ago. So I tried to do a CGM when I was pregnant with my first I was talked into the Medtronic pump with the, you know, CGM. It talks to it. It suspends your insulin whenever you're low. But it was like, Oh, you have to calibrate it two hours before you eat, two hours after you eat, you can't, you know, if it's in this period you can't eat, then you have to do this and do that. And I could not keep up with it. It was the most frustrating thing screaming at me all night long because something was wrong or it thought I was low, but I wasn't. So I kind of swore them off because of that. And that was in 2014 I was like, I will never again deal with

Scott Benner 13:51
that. Okay, you didn't think my TV's gotten so much better, maybe in some pumps have changed too. Today's episode is brought to you by Omnipod. Did you know that the majority of Omnipod five users pay less than $30 per month at the pharmacy? That's less than $1 a day for tube, free automated insulin delivery, and a third of Omnipod five users pay $0 per month. You heard that right? Zero. That's less than your daily coffee for all of the benefits of tubeless, waterproof, automated insulin delivery. My daughter has been wearing an Omnipod every day since she was four years old, and she's about to be 21 my family relies on Omnipod, and I think you'll love it, and you can try it for free right now by requesting your free Starter Kit today at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox Omnipod has been an advertiser for a decade, but even if they weren't, I would tell you proudly, my daughter wears an Omnipod. Omnipod.com/juicebox Terms and Conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Why don't you get yourself that free starter kit, full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juice Juicebox. I used to hate ordering my daughter's diabetes supplies. I never had a good experience, and it was frustrating. But it hasn't been that way for a while, actually, for about three years now, because that's how long we've been using us Med, us, med.com/juicebox, or call 888-721-1514, us. Med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omnipod, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, the number one rated distributor in Dexcom customer satisfaction surveys, they have served over 1 million people with diabetes since 1996 and they always provide 90 days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping us med carries everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies to the Latest CGM like the libre three and Dexcom g7 they accept Medicare nationwide, and over 800 private insurers find out why us med has an A plus rating with a better business bureau at us med.com/juicebox, or just call them at 888-721-1514, get started right now, and you'll be getting your supplies the same way we do.

Anonymous Female Speaker 16:25
You know, I've been a creature of habit for a long time. You get comfy with one thing. I mean, I even moved my little Lancet device from one meter to the next one because I was like, No, it's working, and I like it and it doesn't hurt. And I'm going to keep using the same Lansing device because I don't trust the new which sounds crazy.

Scott Benner 16:42
I like how you, as you said it out loud, you're like, oh yeah, that's weird. I know

Anonymous Female Speaker 16:47
it's crazy. And I knew that then too. But like, I was like, No, I know what I like. I know what I want to use. I don't want to, you know, step out too, too far from my comfort zone.

Scott Benner 16:57
If I want to be completely honest with you, Arden had multi clicks the lance. And it's, it was awesome. I don't know why they discontinued it. It was so awesome. And then they moved to what the multi clicks, and it's fine, but, man, the first one was awesome. Like, if they went back to that design, I think everybody would be thrilled here.

Anonymous Female Speaker 17:21
Yeah, there's just, you know, you get comfy with, like, if you're gonna have to do something that you don't really want to do, at least do it with something that you're comfortable with. So that was kind of my thing.

Scott Benner 17:30
All right, so poor Medtronic gets out early and tries to figure all this out. For all you all, it doesn't go awesome the first time around, and you're like, that said, I'll never wear a pump or a CGM again?

Anonymous Female Speaker 17:41
Well, no, I kept the pump. I've I've done pumping for years upon years,

Scott Benner 17:46
so you just hated the CGM that badly, right? It was the CGM that I was like, No, thank you. Okay, okay, yeah. How long do you use a Medtronic pump for? Maybe you still do. I

Anonymous Female Speaker 17:55
don't. Now, I'm actually using the Omnipod five with the Dexcom g6 which I love. I do love my CGM now, awesome Medtronic I used for, well, from 2014 until, what 2023 I guess, okay. And before that, it was like the Animus pump. Ping, animus ping, yeah, it was like purplish or something, see through. So

Scott Benner 18:20
you use the Medtronic pump for nine years. What makes you switch to the

Anonymous Female Speaker 18:23
Omnipod? You will love this. It was your podcast. Oh, sorry, I didn't

Scott Benner 18:27
I it's not what I was leaning towards. Actually, I thought maybe, I honestly thought maybe you were like, well, let me get back to a CGM. But no, you went, would you go to dash first?

Anonymous Female Speaker 18:34
No, no, I waited till the Omnipod five came out. Okay, whenever that was maybe that wasn't even 2023 I don't know. But when did

Scott Benner 18:42
you get it? Did you get it in your head then, like, I'm gonna try automation again? Oh,

Anonymous Female Speaker 18:46
I don't. Just before I went and just did it, I don't know it was, do you remember why I really liked the idea of overnights, not having to worry about overnights, because I always had some lows overnight or the fear of lows. So it was like, Oh, well, if this will protect me overnight, and it actually works. And I see that the CGM actually works because I got that first, then I can trust it to actually suspend insulin and do all of that

Scott Benner 19:11
overnight. I see, okay, and what's your experience been now? Using a more modern system,

Anonymous Female Speaker 19:17
it's been great. I love it. I also love that it's tubeless. I got really tired of trying to find places to hide my pump, you know, hiding it in your bra and wearing Spanx and sewing a pocket to it so you can hide it under a dress. Not super fun, yeah, but it's been great. I mean, I use it and I keep it in auto mode all the time. I don't I've never switched it out of auto mode unless I absolutely have to, so, yeah, it's been great.

Scott Benner 19:42
I just laughed a little under my breath, and I realized people might have heard it, so I'm going to explain myself, because it was an completely inappropriate place to laugh, like you're explaining your in some bubbles. I'm like, but I actually found myself wondering two things, like, first of all, like, how frustrating it must be to find yourself safe. Down on a Saturday, sewing pockets into the backsides of clothing to stick your pump in correct. Yes. Like, you must be like, I have so little free time. I can't believe this is what I'm doing with it, absolutely right? The other thing I thought was like, like, I don't have this experience. I started wondering about Arden, right? Like, you know, you sometimes you just replace things to replace them. Do you ever do that? Like, you're just like, I've been staring at this thing for 10 years, like, I'm gonna get a purple one now, or I'm gonna get, like, you know, a square instead of a circle. Or I don't even know what I'm talking about, but like, you know, eventually you just are, like, you get sick of things. I wonder if that happens to people's pumps, where they're just like, this thing's been around too long. I'm gonna change, just the change. Or if once you find the functionality to be so valuable, you live through that part. I don't know what I'm saying exactly like. I wonder if, once you find one that works that you like, does it just melt into the background, or does it feel like a old remote control to a television eventually that you're just like, let's throw this out and get a new one. Does that make sense?

Anonymous Female Speaker 21:01
Yeah, I think so. And I think it does kind of just melt into the background, like it just becomes the norm. Like, I don't think about it anymore. I just order the supplies and go, Okay, you know, I'm not thinking about wonder what else is out there. I wonder what else I should be doing, necessarily, like, it's just, this is life. This is what I do. Let's just keep going. And when you have 17 million children and a full time job and employees and all that, it's, you know, yeah, time to think about

Scott Benner 21:28
that. If you would have been born, I don't know, 20 years later, and gotten diabetes, and on day one, someone would have given you, like, the new 780 G Medtronic pump and their new CGM, which I think is like, almost here, like in America, but like, you know, basically looks like every other CGM now, and it worked fine. You weren't, like, calibrating in the middle of the night and all the problems that you had with the first one. Do you think that 10 years later, you just would have been like, Oh, this is fine. I'll just keep doing

Anonymous Female Speaker 21:54
this. Possibly. Yes, I do think that as I've gotten older and I'm more comfortable making these decisions to change things too. Okay, so Well, I have more money now. Like, I can think about, like, getting a new system because I don't have to pay for it, or I have good insurance, and I can afford to do that. Like, those are things that would have kept me on a different system in the past, right? Like, I've got a six month back supply. I did have, like, a two or three year back supply of sets, yeah, sets and, you know, all of that kind of stuff that it was hard to just get rid of that, you know, I see, so you just kind of get stuck in that, because this is what I do, and this is what I have, and it costs a lot of money to switch it could Yeah, but now it's like, well, I can do

Scott Benner 22:38
that now. Is the tubeless nature of the Omnipod. Is it that big of a draw? Yes, it is. That's what it is. Okay, yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 22:46
because I've even, I mean, I don't think that the algorithm. I would love to try another algorithm and just see how it works, because there are some limitations with it. It doesn't have the none of them learned. But what am I trying to say it doesn't have the has the correction through the basal, right? So it increases your basal, it doesn't give you actual boluses, yeah? You wish

Scott Benner 23:09
it was more aggressive on higher blood sugars, yeah, yeah. But the two, the tubeless part overcomes that for you. It does, yeah, in a world where nothing's perfect, and you're doing a pros and cons list, that tubeless thing really carries some weight.

Anonymous Female Speaker 23:23
Absolutely, for me, it does after being hooked to a tube for what felt like a million years. Yeah, it's nice to

Scott Benner 23:29
not have that. Does it feel like you've had diabetes forever? It does, yeah. Does that make you any feel any sort of way? No, no, not frustrated or irritated, annoyed, like you've just given up. What's that word when you give up? Like, that burnout feeling, I don't know, like a malaise, almost like, Oh no. I think

Anonymous Female Speaker 23:50
it kind of ebbs and flows, like throughout the years, like there have been, definitely been years where I've been overwhelmed by it and just over it, and I don't want to do this anymore, and I'm gonna take my insulin, but I'm not really gonna care that much about it, watch what it's doing, or check my blood sugar, or any of that thing. But I don't feel that way necessarily now, like I feel like I have really good control. I know what I need to do. I always anticipate that every like five or 10 years now, or every two or three years, I'm gonna have a feeling of like, wow, I wish I didn't have to do this anymore, because I think it comes with the nature of it, like, it's hard, it's every day, it's non

Scott Benner 24:27
stop, and once in a while that bubbles to the surface. It does,

Anonymous Female Speaker 24:31
yeah, for sure. Like, when you're fighting a low blood sugar all day long, or a high blood sugar all day long, and you get home and you're just like, I'm done. Like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm in a bad mood. I don't want to do this anymore.

Scott Benner 24:42
Yeah, I never not do it. You have to have you had other human experiences that people without type one diabetes understand, that would mimic that feeling, like having diarrheal die or something like, sorry. I don't know why that came up to my head, but sounds terrible. Yeah, no, no, but I'm saying like, is there another. Physical, something that could happen through your health, that could impact you for an entire day, that give you that same feeling like, what else has happened to you, that gives you that feeling of like being a low all day? Is there anything that matches it?

Anonymous Female Speaker 25:11
I don't think so. No, not that I have found no. I think it mostly is just that it's it's the diabetes, because it is a twenty, four, seven, mental game in your head that you're playing, yeah, and even when you're not having to think about it hard, you're still having to think about it. Every day, when I wake up, I'm thinking, okay, when am I going to eat lunch today? What meetings do I have? What time can I order? What do I need to do to be able to be prepared for that? And you know, you're you're constantly calculating

Scott Benner 25:41
even this recording with me this morning, you you prepped in some way for this? Yes, absolutely. And that doesn't melt into the background. Oh, it does. But then once in a while, it becomes present. Yes, and then how does that manifest? Is it sadness, or how do you feel? I

Anonymous Female Speaker 25:59
think it's mostly overwhelm. I mean, you just feel that overwhelm all of a sudden, like and some sadness, because no one, no one I know, has it. I mean, I know people who are type one, but no one in my close family knows what I go through every day.

Scott Benner 26:14
Would you let them listen to this? Yeah. Do you think there'll be a moment in your text chat with your sisters you'll be like, Hey, if you want to understand me my diabetes better, I was on this podcast,

Anonymous Female Speaker 26:23
possibly, oh, my mom knows. My mom knows I've already told her. And of course, my husband knows, but, and he's been great through it all. I mean, he's there. And, you know, the kids even help me. If I'm have a low blood sugar, they all know to run and go get Mom something, right? They're there to help now, which is great, but that still doesn't take that burden off of me. I'm still the one dealing with it. Yeah, every day.

Scott Benner 26:46
No. I mean, it's nice that people care about you, but that, in all honesty, that doesn't impact the things that we're talking about here, right? Yeah, yeah. Is there anything that could, I mean, short of it just disappearing? I don't think so. No, I don't. I mean, what could someone do? I don't know. So I just ask people questions. I'm imagining one day they'll say something, and I'll be like, Oh, that's a good idea. We should all do that. There you go. Hey, you're not a depressed person by nature. Oh gosh, no, no, you're not.

Anonymous Female Speaker 27:16
I can tell I've never, never dealt with depression, anxiety, anything like

Scott Benner 27:20
that, nothing like that. So it's not piling up in other places on you. No, no, gotcha.

Anonymous Female Speaker 27:25
It's just every once in a while you feel that OOF again,

Scott Benner 27:29
today, like this happening, yeah, yeah, yeah. And today it's going to be worse, right? On days when you feel okay about it, when it's not bubbled to the surface, does it bother you when you have to make those adjustments and plans like you described, or is it just happened and it feels like you're not aware of it?

Anonymous Female Speaker 27:48
Oh, no, it just happens. Okay, for the most part, my diabetes is like, just in the passenger seat. It's not like it's controlling and driving the car and all of that. It's just it's always

Scott Benner 27:59
there. But when the times when it comes up and it is there with you. It's not in the passenger seat anymore. It's sitting in your lap for some reason and holding his hand over your eyes while you're driving. Now, every decision feels like a slog.

Anonymous Female Speaker 28:10
It can Yeah, and it can feel just like, are you making the right decision? Am I treating it the right way? Is this the right one? Is this where I need more insulin? Those types of things can happen. Am I over treating this because I'm just frustrated with it and I want to just kill it, like, get this high blood sugar down?

Scott Benner 28:28
Yes. So the act of diabetes is judging you constantly. Did I do it right? Is this right? Am I making the right decision? You're being judged, possibly, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've never been to therapy, huh? Now I can tell you were like, I don't know. I haven't really thought about it that deeply. No,

Anonymous Female Speaker 28:46
I prefer not to.

Scott Benner 28:48
No, do you think you're hiding something, or do you think you're generally happy? Oh, I think I'm genuinely happy. Okay, all right, yeah, I don't disagree with you. I'm just asking questions. Yeah, I am very happy. You are either of these boys you've been married to do anything good or bad that was valuable around diabetes.

Anonymous Female Speaker 29:08
Oh, so. So my ex husband, his brother, is type one, actually. So my brother in law? Yeah, ex brother in law, I guess you should say he had type one, and he was diagnosed similar time to me, but I never knew him. I've met him now, but I didn't know him growing up. So he had some ideas of what it kind of looks like or doesn't look like, like it was never a big deal for him,

Scott Benner 29:36
ever. Oh, so he didn't think twice about you having type one because his brother had it correct, but he has about the same loose understanding of it as your sister, who's like, I don't know what you're talking about, but good on you

Anonymous Female Speaker 29:46
correct, because he was already out of the house by the time his brother was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 29:50
Gotcha? Do you think that helped him accept you

Anonymous Female Speaker 29:55
as a type one? Possibly because he never saw it as a big deal, right? Yeah, which was was good and bad,

Scott Benner 30:02
because he also didn't know to appreciate what it what it really is. Correct? Got it? Yeah? And then this is not part of why. I'm assuming you left him. Yes, I did. Yeah. I'm just saying, I'm just assuming, because guys, generally speaking, they're like, I don't think anything's

Anonymous Female Speaker 30:17
bad. This is all right, uh huh. So that's where the fun parts of the stories come in. No, did

Scott Benner 30:21
anything about your diabetes have anything to do with your divorce? No, no,

Anonymous Female Speaker 30:25
okay, no, no, he just doesn't. He didn't know how to be faithful.

Scott Benner 30:29
Oh, that'll definitely slow it down, yeah, even while

Anonymous Female Speaker 30:33
actively pursuing having a second child. And then you find out you're pregnant, and then you find out that your husband was not faithful.

Scott Benner 30:39
Is he super handsome? No, really interesting. You know, if I was super handsome, like, let me here yesterday, I'm outside. I told you this before we started recording, but I'm outside. I'm cutting the lawn, right? I come back in, and I am just like, I'm hot, and there's like, grass stuck to my face. I come in, everyone's just chilling out. I'm like, you know, I'm like, All right, that's fine. I'm over that. By the way, I've been married and I've had kids for so long, I don't even expect anybody to help me. It's fine. And so, like, I come back in the house, and Arden goes, Hey, two questions. And I go, okay, she goes, would you ever go to a nude beach? And I'm like, what? And she goes, a nude beach. Would you go to a nude beach? And I said, No, I don't think so. And she goes, why not? I said. I said, I'm older. I'm not in terrific shape. I was like, if I was in great shape, then sure, I probably would go, Sure. And right. And she goes, great shape. And I then I said, them stupid. I was like, Yeah, you like John Cena. And she goes, John Cena. And I was like, I don't know where that came from. I've only ever seen I don't watch wrestling. Yeah, I've seen John Cena in one thing. It's like a TV show. I think it only had six episodes. I don't know John Cena. I don't like. I'm like, so while they're now making fun of me about my John Cena swing, I'm like, I'm also making fun of myself. I'm like, where the did that come from? I said, Look, just a person in like, tip top shape. I said, if someone is in tip top shape, I think I would go to a new beach. I would have any trouble with it. Arden goes, would you take your clothes off? And I went, Wait, I thought that was the question exactly, what else do you do? And I was like, I was like, wait, I'm like, What are you asking me? She's like, like, if she's like, say you went on vacation and there was only nude beaches. You didn't realize that, but you didn't have to be nude on the beach. Would you go? And I went, Oh yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 32:21
that's a totally different question. It was

Scott Benner 32:25
like, You're not I said, Oh yeah. I was like, no, no, no, I have no trouble that long. And that's why I asked the question about your house, because I can imagine, like, if I was super handsome and not, like, a lockdown rock solid guy, and women were constantly like, Hey, man, I might be like, Yo, what's up? Like, I don't know like, but I don't have that problem, because women are throwing themselves at me. So

Anonymous Female Speaker 32:47
I don't know where he finds his opportunities, but he clearly had

Scott Benner 32:52
them. So listen, I want to make you feel better. I'm not going to use a name, but I, for a long time, have had a friend who is God, I'm so sorry. This is one of those moments when I say you probably shouldn't have a podcast unless you're going to be honest, and if you're going to be honest, you should probably be ready to feel bad about having a podcast. But not an attractive guy, uh huh, not in great shape, not athletic, good personality, funny, not money. No, no money. Yep. I don't know how the kids would talk about it now, but between you and me and I'm going to tell you right now, Rob, get ready to edit throws at him left and right. It never stops. Yeah, if that kid's awake, he's fcking Do you understand what I'm saying? And it's a different person all the time. And I don't know how it's him,

Anonymous Female Speaker 33:50
yeah, I feel that that's very similar. No kidding, for some reason I don't know why. The only thing I can think is like that charismatic, outgoing attitude, and like attracts

Scott Benner 34:00
women. It does yeah enough to take their pants off. Apparently, when he's married, yeah, and they know he's married. Uh huh. Hold on a second horse there. I just said it for you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you, by the way, yeah, and if, if you're currently female and cheating with a married guy, but you're listening to the podcast, I don't think you're a whore. I want you to keep listening. Please don't get upset. Yeah, only, only the specific, yeah, we're talking about the girls who ruined marriage. No one else.

Anonymous Female Speaker 34:29
That's right. But you know, it wasn't great anyway. Like, there were other things we shouldn't have been together. Oh, okay, all right. I mean, there were, there were other, you know, things that I was willing to put up with and get passed and we worked on and, you know,

Scott Benner 34:43
nice and you're very accepting of all this. Yeah, you're not mad.

Anonymous Female Speaker 34:49
No, no, I'm really happy where I am now, which I think makes it really easy to not hold resentment.

Scott Benner 34:56
Okay, were you more resentful previously? Even then,

Anonymous Female Speaker 34:59
I feel like. Was just like, oh, I have a reason to leave.

Scott Benner 35:03
That's horrible. I hope he doesn't hear this, but you were

Anonymous Female Speaker 35:06
just, I don't think I would send anything. I haven't told him before. I was very, I was actually very, not very pregnant. Let's see, I was four or five months pregnant. I was

Scott Benner 35:16
pretty pregnant. He knocked you up while he was cheating on you. Yes, oh yeah, dude, that's tough. You know, he's listening, by the way, that's

Anonymous Female Speaker 35:22
Oh, yeah, oh. He'll tell me now, and he knows he sees it, and he's tried to be better. He's a great dad too, like he really is. I'll give him that. Well, he's charismatic. He's very charismatic. Loves those kids, does anything and everything for them. Does

Scott Benner 35:36
he have other kids spread around the globe? Not that

Anonymous Female Speaker 35:39
we know of. They were smart and didn't tell him, probably, no, I'm just kidding. That's terrible to say. No,

Scott Benner 35:45
he's with someone now and they're happy. Oh no, no, oh, oh, okay, oh no, that was your, your ex's your husband's ex. I I'm sorry. Okay, okay, no, yeah, he's in an apartment playing Playstation right now.

Anonymous Female Speaker 35:57
Maybe I gotcha. Okay, yeah, all right, yeah, watching sports, doing something,

Scott Benner 36:01
did the conga line of boobies keep up for him, or did it stop? I don't know. I don't know. I'm sorry. I wish, first of all, I wish you know, because I know, I'm trying to figure out if part of the allure was sleeping with a married guy.

Anonymous Female Speaker 36:17
I don't know. I think, to be completely honest, now I'm never gonna let my kids listen to this, because they don't know anything about this. Anything about this for their dad, really, that's interesting. Good, yeah, we don't talk bad about each other ever around the kids. Nice. That's that's a rule. We don't do that. They think we're best friends still. So,

Scott Benner 36:32
oh yeah, yeah, it's all good for

Anonymous Female Speaker 36:34
him. One partner is always married to start. It seems like when he gets with somebody.

Scott Benner 36:40
Oh, he goes after married ladies that are also unhappy,

Anonymous Female Speaker 36:44
correct? It seems, it would seem to me, now, again, I am removed from that. Now I don't follow trying to figure out what he's doing. I just take care of my kids, make sure whoever's around them is nice. There's only been one other lady around them that I know of, yeah.

Scott Benner 37:01
So during this time since we've now decided your kids can't listen to this while he's cheating, were you still sharing your lady fun with him? You were right, yeah, because we were trying to get pregnant. Okay, so he wasn't like, by the way, also, I'm not saying this is a reason to cheat, but I'm saying, like, he wasn't like, Oh God, I haven't had sex in so long. Like, I'll go, like, find an unhappy married girl who won't tell anybody, because she's married too, because that's got to be the Lord there, I would imagine,

Anonymous Female Speaker 37:27
oh, I'm sure, yeah, no, no, there was none of that. Like the

Scott Benner 37:31
mutually insured destruction thing probably keeps everybody keeps their mouth shut,

Anonymous Female Speaker 37:36
exactly, but her husband found out and came and told me, so, you know,

Scott Benner 37:41
Oh, her husband came to you while you were pregnant.

Anonymous Female Speaker 37:46
Yeah, yeah, knocked on my front door during nap time for my oldest,

Scott Benner 37:50
and did he look disturbed when he saw you were pregnant?

Anonymous Female Speaker 37:54
Well, you couldn't tell yet, because I was only, like, nine or 10 weeks pregnant. We had just announced I

Scott Benner 37:59
gotcha okay. We had just announced it was just in the paper.

Anonymous Female Speaker 38:02
It was just it was just made aware to everybody else. Was he

Scott Benner 38:06
angry or devastated? He was

Anonymous Female Speaker 38:09
angry. Apparently they had a rocky, crazy, weird, cheat on each other kind of relationship, it seems, from what I understood. So then he was just ready to take my husband's world and rock his world too. Like here, your wife should know. Let's make sure I'm not the only one who knows. So

Scott Benner 38:26
nothing super special, just the type one for 20 years with a pretty uneventful life.

Anonymous Female Speaker 38:32
Type one uneventful. I didn't say my whole life was uneventful, did

Scott Benner 38:36
I? I just want you to know that if you didn't write that I wouldn't even know you were divorced. So you were just like, find something. And I was like, I will. Don't worry.

Anonymous Female Speaker 38:48
I will. Yeah, well, that's what I kind of counted on, because I didn't want to dictate where it goes and what you I don't know it's

Scott Benner 38:54
kind of funny attacks and me, I see it's fine,

Anonymous Female Speaker 38:56
really. I really enjoy when you dig and find things on the podcast.

Scott Benner 39:00
So I didn't know this was a test. Am I supposed to put it

Anonymous Female Speaker 39:03
in the note? Like, definitely ask me about honestly, I hate

Scott Benner 39:07
that the notes there even, yeah. But you know, there's you uptight people who have been on the podcast, like, what, what are we gonna talk so I just, I think that just lets them out of it by they get to talk and say what they're gonna talk about. And by the way, some people who are really structured with their thinking, like today's episode, which is called phantom hemorrhoid, in case you're wondering what they recorded part of it. Yes, I love how structured her storytelling is. Yes, like, she really, like I told her during the episode, she takes a two month span in her life and breaks it down so granularly. Yes, it's so super interesting that way, but, but Okay, all right, so we figured all this out. I'm back at the door. He's standing Do you invite Him in? No, no, he stands at the door. Yeah. Do you tell him you're pregnant?

Anonymous Female Speaker 39:53
No, he already knew, because we had announced and apparently

Scott Benner 39:57
you all knew each

Anonymous Female Speaker 39:58
other. Oh, yes, I've. God, gosh, I forgot to put that part in there. Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:03
So does your ex not know the phrase, don't worry.

Anonymous Female Speaker 40:09
She worked with him at his place of employment, and we actually helped her and her husband move into their house, which was like three blocks away from us. Oh,

Scott Benner 40:20
my God, how

Anonymous Female Speaker 40:21
two weekends

Scott Benner 40:22
before two weekends you were helping that move into her house while she was in your husband, yeah. Oh my Rob. Keep editing, Buddy, keep going. No kidding. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Do you think she was laughing at you? Oh, I would have murdered her. Oh, I

Anonymous Female Speaker 40:38
think I think she was probably at the time, but she also I wondered why she looked so almost concerned during and like she wouldn't talk to me, like she would not have any conversation. She was

Scott Benner 40:50
nervous. She was nervous. It sounds like your dumb ass. Husband's idea. Never mind, right? Yeah, I got it so, ex husband, sorry, yeah. Ex husband, you know, I was at a funeral this weekend. This is going to be a weird pivot. I just made myself laugh because I'm so stupid. I was at a funeral this weekend. The man who died, he's older, and by the way, shout out to him, man, he fought cancer for 12 years, or valiant dude and his son who died in his 30s, which is crazy enough, of like, a medical issue. Was divorced, but they have grandchildren, so he's got grandchildren anyway. The mom shows up. Obviously, her daughter's grandfather's dead. She's coming, you know what I mean, like, obviously, but they don't really know each other anymore. It's been, you know, split up a long time and, um. And I said to her, your father in law. And she paused and said, ex father in law. And I said, Is that a thing we have to do now that he's dead? The whole like, I don't know. Like, what was right there threw me off. Like, yeah, like, he didn't fight with her and get divorced. Like, you know what I mean? Like,

Anonymous Female Speaker 41:58
you know what goes through your mind when someone does that is, please don't link me to that person at all. Not the not the father in law. It's her, it's the son the ex. I never want to think of being linked to that person again. Oh, it makes you feel dirty. Yeah, it's like, ew, no, no, thank you. Oh, it's weird. Okay, I got it all right. Thank you. So it's not so much disrespect for the in laws, because I know my actually, my ex, father in law, he just recently passed, and you know, that was hard and sad, and my boy's first time ever dealing with loss of a grandparent or anyone, and it was a very, you know, sad thing, and I've cared for him,

Scott Benner 42:35
but just not my ex. Well, I mean, not now that we got this story. No, obviously not. Jeez, yeah, was that part of it? Did he have a great No, not even that. Come on,

Anonymous Female Speaker 42:48
I don't I? I don't know what was happening. Also, Rob,

Scott Benner 42:52
I think we got to bleep that out twice. That work. Like, I mean, like, you can leave the vibe in if you want. But like, I think we had to take the word out, even though it's not one of the curses we usually take out. Yeah, yeah. I'm just looking for the reason, like, what's the John Cena of the whole thing? Oh, my God, we're gonna call your episode John Cena. Awesome, you know, for you really don't know. Well, what got you about him? Like he you, you gave yourself

Anonymous Female Speaker 43:18
personality. Yeah, it was. It was, it was absolutely his personality. And you know, they don't show they're crazy beforehand. I

Scott Benner 43:24
mean, listen, I've heard that said about a couple of ladies, too, but I hear what you're saying. Yeah, like in

Anonymous Female Speaker 43:28
general, you're gonna put your best foot forward always, you know, when you're dating someone. And we also got married way too fast. So

Scott Benner 43:36
were you too young?

Anonymous Female Speaker 43:37
Well, I was, I was 23 so yes, you're being

Scott Benner 43:41
so honest now, and since we've already decided that we're not going to tell your children that this exists, can I ask a question? I've been dying to know the answer to Sure. When you really love somebody and you're really vibing with them, right? And you just met them, and it's all going well, and then you decide to be intimate. And when it comes out, and it's not impressive, are you let down, or do you not think about it that way? Oh, I don't know. I guess you don't think about there's no pause where you go. I was hoping for something else. No, no, I don't think so. When does it hit you? Like, the first time it's happening and you go, I don't like this thing. Like, is that when you know you're in trouble? I guess that does happen right like sometime in the future, you were like, I got ripped off here. Yeah, but I don't know. I'm just asking this because I'm imagining all the women laughing in their cars right now. This is why I'm doing

Anonymous Female Speaker 44:33
it. I don't know. I tend to not like to think about being intimate. Have

Scott Benner 44:37
you ever had an experience? Definitely don't let your kids listen to this. Have you ever had an experience where your current husband, I don't think you should tell anybody about this now. You should probably tell people like it didn't work out. The recording didn't work. That's exactly what I'll say. Has one ever come out where you're like, oh, like the glowing, like the idol and like Indiana Jones, where you're like, oh my god, awesome. Like Christine got lucky today. Like you ever had one of those experiences?

Anonymous Female Speaker 44:59
I don't know. I mean, I really enjoy my current husband. I mean,

Scott Benner 45:03
I think you're supposed to say Yes, with my current husband, it came out. I don't know if

Anonymous Female Speaker 45:07
any. I mean, you heard, if I'm being honest, any,

Scott Benner 45:10
yeah, you don't think anything would make you feel that way in that scenario.

Anonymous Female Speaker 45:15
No, not like, Oh, yay.

Scott Benner 45:19
Music I was experiencing

Anonymous Female Speaker 45:21
in my head. I knew it was

Scott Benner 45:24
like, you know, when they opened the briefcase and Pulp Fiction. Oh, my God, no, I'm young to watch Pulp Fiction. No, what the is wrong with you people? Okay, all right,

Anonymous Female Speaker 45:34
listen, I just listened to an episode where you had to look a few good men. The name of that movie, movie,

Scott Benner 45:45
because I own that film, I just want to say I we just watched it with our oldest because it's so good. Yeah, I mean, I could tell you who wrote it, like, I mean, like, but I couldn't think of the title of it while

Anonymous Female Speaker 45:55
just talking. But that's okay. I understand. I appreciate this. Okay,

Scott Benner 45:59
all right. Well, yeah, can you please watch Pulp Fiction so we can continue to talk like, Can we pause this and come back?

Anonymous Female Speaker 46:05
I mean, we might have to,

Scott Benner 46:08
anyway, I don't know. The Is it a MacGuffin? The thing No, MacGuffin is technically. Is MacGuffin? Just like technology in a movie that's not real? And then what's the Oh, hold on a second. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, there's

Anonymous Female Speaker 46:26
no technology in a movie that's not real.

Scott Benner 46:29
Yeah, I think they called him a Guffin. But I think McGuffin might be something else too. I'm I'm people right now are like, please don't use the electricity to chat. GP, no, I'm going to what is McGuffin. I need the definition in filmmaking, a MacGuffin, sometimes spelled McGuffin, is a plot device, an object or event or goal that drives the story forward but is ultimately unimportant in itself. Yeah. Okay, then I think I'm right. So then, oh my god, this is crazy. Do you want to be freaked out right now? Did they use your example? God damn right. They did. Not just that one, but another one that I used. So listening to you talk, that's what it is. No, it doesn't listen. Chatgpt, are you listening? It doesn't listen. Actually, I don't have a microphone on this computer. It doesn't listen. Oh, there you go. Something. A character cares deeply about a motivation for the action or conflict often revealed early in the story usually loses significance as the plot evolves. Classic examples the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, because we never actually find out what's in it, the Ark of the Covenant, which I used as the example for the in Raiders of the Lost Ark, the plans for the Death Star in Star Wars and in Citizen Kane rosebud, it sets up the story, but the film is actually about Kane's life, not the object itself, anyway. So then what is the plot device called when technology in a movie is not realistic. You know what I'm talking about? Like, when they just make up a technology, oh, it's called techno babble. Oh, okay, yeah, because they just, like, say a bunch of stuff, and you sound cool and you accept that, that thing moves the story forward. Yes, okay, does that make sense? Yep, I've been all over the place so far, and we've only been talking for 56

Anonymous Female Speaker 48:24
minutes. Sorry about that. Don't be sorry. This is my brain.

Scott Benner 48:28
Oh, you're okay with all this. Yeah, I swear to God, like I'm half expecting that when we get done recording, you're gonna say to me, Scott, I'm sorry for wasting your time, but please don't

Anonymous Female Speaker 48:36
put that out. I probably should, but I also knew very well that this could happen. So I mean, fair enough, you can't have a lifetime story, no, like life, and not have it shared. So it happened.

Scott Benner 48:50
Can we be serious for a second? Do you have any concerns about your children

Anonymous Female Speaker 48:54
having type one? I do, yes, and I've had the trial net kits for forever. Get them they're sitting in my closet. They actually had to resend them again because the last one's expired, and I just haven't done it yet. Like, I check them regularly if they have weird symptoms or this, that and the other and, I mean, I check my step kids too, because I'm like, Hey, you're drinking a lot. Let me just check your blood sugar. Like they know I'm the crazy lady

Scott Benner 49:19
and their uncle. Well, doesn't their uncle? No, that's the ex. Sorry, yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 49:23
yeah. My boys have it on both sides, so I definitely keep track

Scott Benner 49:26
of Yeah. By the way, I think trial net should change the name of those kits to the kitchen table kit, because apparently that's where everybody puts them after they order them and don't use them and don't use them. I know, by the way, I don't know if you know this or not. For all of you listening, the poor people at trial net, who are working so hard to try to advance this, are beating their heads against the wall right now, where you're probably they're listening to this, but I think they understand, and so do I like why it happens? Yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 49:49
it's that endless debate of, do you want to know? Like I know all the signs their dad knows the signs anytime I see signs that are interesting. And it's a time to. I'm like, hey, just keep an eye on this. They did this. Or, you know, if they're sick, to have a stomach bug, I'm always watching them for the couple weeks to a month afterward, just making sure they're okay. And because that, that's how it hit me, yeah, I do

Scott Benner 50:13
this with my son, and I feel weird that I think I'm going to do it for the rest of

Anonymous Female Speaker 50:16
my life. Yeah, yeah. You just, you think about it, because it's a possibility. You know that after illnesses, that typically is when it shows up. So,

Scott Benner 50:25
yeah, I don't think he knows that, by the way.

Anonymous Female Speaker 50:27
No, yeah, I don't think my kids do either. I mean, they you never really make it known, but always

Scott Benner 50:33
there. You're always thinking, listen, for those of you who enjoy movies, there are four device types around technology and movies. I'm gonna give you examples of each one of them. So the name of the first one is like hand wavium or fantastical devices. An example would be the arc reactor and Iron Man. That's just the thing they made up so that the whole thing works. But there's no reality to it whatsoever. Techno babble, the way that they talk about, like transporters and Star Trek, like they just say a bunch of stuff, and then you accept it's that happens, and then you don't ask questions in your mind about why they can move people from place to place. Pseudo using Pseudoscience in a movie like the digital mind upload in matrix and something called Deuce Ex Machina virus kills the alien mother ship in Independence Day. Ah, so techno babble, fake science talk to explain technology. The hand wavium is unbelievable. Tech waved off as it just works. Like, yeah, of course, he's got an arc. I mean, they put Tony in a cave, and he came out with a thing that makes the iron. Of course, Deus Ex Machina, when unrealistic tech saves the day with no setup, just out of nowhere, you're just like, oh, the thing fixed it. And of course, pseudoscience made up. Science used to justify impossible ideas. Now, you guys have learned a bunch of stuff, and I half want to call this episode MacGuffin now, but what did I say? I was John Cena Yeah, that's awesome too, but McGuffin is good too, it is, damn it. Now I put myself in a quandary. See, yeah, and wilting

Anonymous Female Speaker 52:09
and wilting, yeah. Oh, that's I said that early on, though. I said it way too early. Oh, how long have you been listening for a few years now,

Scott Benner 52:17
I was gonna say you're like, you won't use a title that's in the first 15 minutes.

Anonymous Female Speaker 52:21
No, hardly ever. Do you do that? I

Scott Benner 52:23
just in case you guys get bored of me. I want you to be like, I'm gonna hold on a little longer to find out what phantom hemorrhoid means.

Anonymous Female Speaker 52:29
Listen, you know what? At the end of this episode, everyone's like, I'm glad I stuck around. She was pretty boring at first. But hey,

Scott Benner 52:35
by the way, I don't want to say this in a way that don't sound like mean. But in the first 10 minutes, I was like, oh my god, maybe she is boring. Yeah, oh yeah. You have like, a slower speech pattern. When you started out, you're speaking faster. Now I got you moving. Eventually you did. I was worried that that could be you. Oh no, because then I tried a couple of different things. I tried psychological, but you're not really in that vibe. And so I was like, oh my god, am I going to keep hitting walls here? This is hard. You made me work really hard. Sorry

Anonymous Female Speaker 53:04
about that. No, it's funny because one of my employees actually knows that I'm I'm doing this too. And she's like, Well, you'll have no problem talking. You talk all the time. I'm like, Yeah, well, with people I know, like, We'll see, we'll see how it goes. It's

Scott Benner 53:15
interesting how it works. It is, oh. Somebody said, Oh, I have to speak for work. And I was like, Oh my God. Like, I'm exhaust. I think the way I said it was, I'm exhausted right now. And if you threw me on a stage, I'd talk for two hours, right? Yeah, it wouldn't even matter what we were going to talk about. I'm actually, we keep setting up. We're setting up the talks for the cruise, which is coming up pretty quickly. Yeah. And people are like, well, the people I'm working with, like, well, what are you going to talk about here? I was like, diabetes. I diabetes,

Anonymous Female Speaker 53:44
generally. Just, yeah, diabetes. I was like,

Scott Benner 53:46
well, we just start by going diabetes, right? And then just, I'll talk forever. And she's like, I think you should have, you know, something written down like that. You're going to, like, stick to I was like, I feel like that's not necessary, but I have, but it's still, like, that vibe inside of me at first. It's like, no, I'll be okay. Yeah, yeah. There's three, two hour talks in like, a five day cruise, and we have other people. We really wanted to bring Jenny and Erica on the cruise, but it was the first year for and it kind of couldn't support that yet, okay, but we're hoping to do that next year. But anyway, they're going to come on through digital. Like, that's what we're trying to work out right now. So that's cool, yeah. So my idea was like, let them come on and talk for like, a half an hour, and then I'll do the last 90 minutes. And the person who's setting it up keeps saying to me, like, you can do this, and they can talk longer. I'm like, I need two hours. Isn't enough? I think she's trying to protect me. She's like, Scott, you're gonna speak for two hours, like, three times in five days. That's going to be horrible. And I keep thinking like, no, no, I'll be

Anonymous Female Speaker 54:42
alright. Yeah, that's what you do,

Scott Benner 54:44
right? It's my job. You guys have no idea that if it wasn't for editing costs and the fact that I don't think people care, I'd make three hour podcasts. Oh, absolutely, yeah. I stop myself like, I kick that. That's why they end so abruptly, because I hear a. Always in my head go, this is costing too much to edit. You got to stop. Yep, yep, exactly. I'd still be talking to the person from last week if I was able to. And by the way, I think it would work. I don't know that people have the time for it now that COVID is over, but, and there's already a couple of podcasts out there that are putting out three hour episodes, they're probably chewing up everyone's free time, but Right? I think that you'd find some crazy stuff if you kept talking to people. Oh, absolutely, yeah, I don't know how much of it, it would be about diabetes is the problem

Anonymous Female Speaker 55:31
well, but isn't that kind of what we are all here for anyway, though. I mean, we're not really here for diabetes only. At least I'm not. I like hearing the stories. I like hearing the side stories of people's lives with diabetes. I hope so that's what's fun. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:44
it's my opinion that that's what it is. But yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know, like, some people complain. Some people are like, can you just tell me how to Pre Bolus and shut up. You have go find that episode. Well, that's the, you know, what? Of all the things, if I had 20 minutes to yell at somebody from, like, Apple, for example. Like, I know most podcasts don't work that way, but for the ones that do, if you could just give them a tiny menu underneath and put collections in, yeah, that would be nice. It would be such a big deal, you know. And I don't believe difficult to do, but I just think that most podcasts, well, the truth. You wanna know the truth about podcasts, what's that? Very few of the registered podcasts actually produce do any episodes. Yeah. So I believe that it's one of those things where there's, you know, 100 really famous people making a podcast, and there's probably another 10,000 people who are making, like, pot, like, really taking advantage of of the platform, like, I am, right? And the rest of it's just, you know, 10 episodes, and then they abandon it, yeah? Because it's, it's hard, yeah. And the truth is, is so few people's podcasts are popular. I don't mean this in any sort of way, but, like, if nobody was listening to this, I wouldn't make it absolutely, yeah, yeah. But why would you, I mean, I don't know. I just interviewed a guy a couple weeks ago. He makes one with his daughter, but his family listens to it, like, it's okay, it's fun, like it's a thing he does with his kids. You know what? I mean, yeah, and it gets 10 or 15 downloads, and it's the people, yeah, it's lovely. There's nothing wrong with that. That man has a podcast. That's not what we're talking about. I'm talking about people who are earnestly making podcasts that are getting, like, you know, 500 downloads for an episode, or 30, or even, like, honestly, even a couple of 1000, like, you know, right, right? It's a lot of work to just have 2000 people listen to it. Sure you have no idea how much effort this all takes, I guess is my point. It all sounds fun right now, because we're talking about glowing like stuff like that. It all feels like exciting. Who is calling me, Oh, hold on, Birmingham, all right. Well, listen, this person. This person's making a real mistake. Hold on a second. Hello. Hi, Scott. This is from Oh, hold on a second. You actually need to take a real phone call. Caitlin, I'm making a podcast right now. Can I call you back in a couple of minutes? No, don't be sorry. I thought it was like a spam call, so I was gonna, like, screw with you and put you on the podcast. But then you said who you were, and I was like, Oh no, hold on a second. I'll call you right back. Okay, thanks. Bye. She's like, I'm so sorry. You have to be sorry. It's my fault. That's great. Oh, my God, that's awesome. Rob, take her name out. Yeah. Oh, actually, Rob, take her name out, and the company she called from, right please. Yeah. Also, do you think Rob right now is, like, people know my name. This is awesome. You know Rob. Rob was a really famous musician before he was handling my

Anonymous Female Speaker 58:49
podcast. Oh yeah, I didn't know that.

Scott Benner 58:53
Well, there we go. I keep asking, by the way, Rob, while we're while we've got you on the hook here, man, when are you? Rob's been telling me for three years he's going to pull out a bass and remake the opening to the podcast on base. Oh, that'd be awesome. Yeah, I've never, I've never held his feet to the fire on it, but here it is. Now it is

Anonymous Female Speaker 59:09
my husband plays bass, and it's awesome till they're like, practicing in your living room for hours upon hours.

Scott Benner 59:17
Just kidding, I love you. Oh, we're gonna say his name. That's lovely, man. She really likes your setting, your name and everything. I Everything I do, I really do, he spoils me. If this guy cheats on you, you're just gonna murder everybody, right? Oh, I've already told

Anonymous Female Speaker 59:29
him, yeah, like, I went peacefully the last time. It's never happening again. I'm gonna lose it completely, like, burning things in the yard. I'm all blasted on Facebook, like all the things I hate that people do, I'm doing it, so don't screw me over. Which he I have no I have no concerns.

Scott Benner 59:46
I'm sure. Listen, if you're making a new decision in your 30s, like, I'm sure my wife is like, Oh, if I waited in my 30s, I would have got a decent guy instead

Anonymous Female Speaker 59:55
of me. Listen, he's amazing. My my husband's amazing. He spoils me completely. So it. That's why I have such a good outlook on everything that happened. Like, I cannot imagine not having him in my life.

Scott Benner 1:00:07
I swear to God. Like, people will think otherwise, because I think people think I'm stupid. But like, I think your episode is really about hopefulness, seriously, like, that thing you laid out for me with the X and all that's horrible. Like, I know it's your life, and it's probably you can't think of it that way, because you don't want it to bum you out, but, like, you should be a little bitter and you're not like, yeah. I mean, it's really lovely of you to be perfectly honest. I hope he appreciates the grace you've handed back to him that I'm assuming he didn't deserve. Yep, yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:00:38
yeah. And I don't think it would have been the same if we didn't have kids. You know that like my kids are everything like you don't I don't know. Can I understand they didn't ask for any of it, right? So,

Scott Benner 1:00:48
but how long were you with them? See,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:00:50
when did we get married? 2012 and then we divorced in 2017 so five years?

Scott Benner 1:00:57
Oh, it's not that long. No, oh no, yeah. If you didn't have kids, you would have just been like, you would have gone peace out. I would have gone crazy. You would have gone to the 711 stood up on a milk jug and told people for nine hours straight that he was a piece of Yeah, correct, yeah. Milk. What am I saying? Not jug, milk, crate, crate. Yeah, great. They still make those. They do, right? Think so. I mean, I worked in a 711 when I was like, 19. I mean, they assume they do. Yeah, there was a lot of weird flirting at the 711 with the people who work there,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:01:27
like between the co workers, or between customers co workers. I think that's everywhere, though, isn't it? Like people are always being real stupid with coworkers? I feel like, I think

Scott Benner 1:01:38
so. Can I tell you the dodgiest thing I've ever done since you I think it's my god, hold on. I slept with a 711 customer one time. What

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:01:54
like were they just like a regular and they just kept coming back like

Scott Benner 1:01:58
it wasn't a one. She didn't get a pack of smokes. And I was like, hey, I'll go with you. It wasn't like that. She was in there a fair amount. I think she lived in like, an apartment that was, well, I don't, I don't have to say. I think she definitely lived in an apartment that was near the 711 I know, because that's where I had sex with her. And then she just was very flirty, and I don't know, like I She asked if, oh, yeah, I know what happened now, yeah, that's a long time ago, but now I'm seeing it. She wanted to go for a ride on my motorcycle. Oh, those things are, you know, I'm saying, not hard to get a lady from a motorcycle to a different saddle situation, is what I'm saying. I understand. Yeah, you got what I'm saying. Okay. Anyway, she was really cute.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:02:41
Well, maybe that's why my ex got a motorcycle not too long ago. Are you serious? I wish I was kidding. Oh gosh,

Scott Benner 1:02:49
see if you talk long enough you'd be surprised, what comes out is what I'm saying. That's right, that's right. No, I mean, we talk for four more hours, we're gonna find out we're related. Look, honestly, right, all right. Listen, usually I just tell people you're awesome, because I think they were, but I'm just going to say this, you're way too honest, and I really appreciate that. So did the other people listening?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:10
Yeah, the most fun ones to listen to are the ones people actually tell the truth. So

Scott Benner 1:03:15
yeah, I was going to say, did that have some impact on you? Like you've enjoyed people's stories, and you wanted to kind of come correct on that, yeah, I think so, yeah, yeah, I

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:24
appreciate it. I mean, I definitely don't want anyone I know to listen to this now, but it's most people who know me well enough know the whole story anyway, though. So,

Scott Benner 1:03:33
yeah, I mean, I get you like you do seem like an open book,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:36
yeah? Oh, yeah, I don't. I don't hide much, right? You own

Scott Benner 1:03:40
a you don't have to tell me what it is, but you own a business. No no, because you said employees, I wasn't sure.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:46
Oh, no, I a manager. I manage one of our back office departments.

Scott Benner 1:03:50
All right. Hold on one second for me, you really were awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod five. And at my link, omnipod.com/juicebox you can get yourself a free, what I just say, a free Omnipod five starter kit, free. Get out of here. Go click on that link, omnipod.com/juicebox check it out. Terms and Conditions. Apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found at omnipod.com/juicebox. Links in the show notes, links at Juicebox podcast.com. A huge thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us. Med.com/juicebox, this is where we get our diabetes supplies from. You can as well, use the link or call 888-721-1514, use the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from. US met. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app, like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple podcast and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend, and if you leave a five star review, ooh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? Hey, kids, listen up. You've made it to the end of the podcast. You must have enjoyed it. You know? What else you might enjoy? The private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. I know you're thinking, Oh, Facebook, Scott, please. But no. Beautiful group, wonderful people, a fantastic community Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Of course, if you have type two, are you touched by diabetes in any way? You're absolutely welcome. It's a private group, so you'll have to answer a couple of questions before you come in. We make sure you're not a bot or an evildoer. Then you're on your way. You'll be part of the family. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrong wayrecording.com,

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Scott Benner 7/17/25 Scott Benner 7/17/25

#1578 Fear of Hypoglycemia

Scott and Erika discuss fear of hypoglycemia.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Low blood sugars can be incredibly scary, both from the perspective of the person having them, and from the people around you today, Erica Forsyth and I are going to talk about the fear of hypoglycemia in a way that I hope you find valuable. Check out erica@ericaforsythe.com

my grand rounds series was designed by listeners to tell doctors what they need, and it also helps you to understand what to ask for. There's a mental wellness series that addresses the emotional side of diabetes and practical ways to stay balanced. And when we talk about GLP medications, well, we'll break down what they are, how they may help you, and if they fit into your diabetes management plan, what do these three things have in common? They're all available at Juicebox podcast.com, up in the menu. I know it can be hard to find these things in a podcast app, so we've collected them all for you at Juicebox podcast.com, nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g7 and the Dexcom g7 warms up in just 30 minutes. Check it out now at dexcom.com/juicebox. The show you're about to listen to is sponsored by the ever since 365 the ever since 365 has exceptional accuracy over one year and is the most accurate CGM in the low range that you can get ever since cgm.com/juicebox. The episode you're about to listen to is sponsored by tandem Moby, the impressively small insulin pump. Tandem Moby features tandems newest algorithm control, iq plus technology. It's designed for greater discretion, more freedom and improved time and range. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox Erica. Welcome back Today we are going to talk about the fear of hypoglycemia.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:27
That's right. Thank you. Good to be here.

Scott Benner 2:30
I appreciate I love it when you're stopping. So you know, this is just one, right? This is easy. People share their fears constantly online when I'm speaking to them, I think some people have the fear and they don't address it, and I was hoping that we could talk about it today a little bit and maybe find some practical steps for them to take that could help. Yes, that sounds good. Awesome, awesome. Well, what did you learn when you dug into the fear of hyperglycemia?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:00
Okay, so I think it might be helpful for us to talk about what, what is it? So basically, it's, you know, you're experiencing symptoms that might feel like you are having either an actual panic attack or anxiety, but you're experiencing that intense fear about having a low blood sugar, you're anticipating having the low, or you're actually having the low, and the fear becomes so intense that you might keep your blood sugars higher than recommended to avoid the possibility of going low, Which might look like you're not giving yourself the full, you know, the suggested Bolus, if on your pump or MDI, you might be correcting at a higher number because you are anticipating and you feel that intense fear,

Scott Benner 3:55
yeah, you want to play the insulin game up a little higher, you Think, to avoid the frequency of low blood sugars.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:03
Yes, and I think it's important to note that every person or caregiver has some fear of hypoglycemia, which we might also say fo H or just or fear. They might have some fear of going low. And that's that's common and helpful and adaptive, right? We want to be mindful of not crashing, yeah, but it becomes problematic when it interferes with your quality of life, the decisions you make on a daily basis. It interferes with your T, 1d management. Maybe your A, 1c is going higher as a result. Maybe it might not be also, the research has indicated there's not a direct correlation to experiencing fear of hypoglycemia and having a higher a, 1c although that can be experienced.

Scott Benner 4:52
So there's that layer of anticipation, right? Like something's going to happen, I'm going to be in line somewhere, I'm going to be driving or something. I'm going to get low out of. Nowhere. I think that's part of that anxiety. Is that correct?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:03
Yes. And I think I have found not only my own life, but in kind of anecdotally, there's this public or social component too. And then there's the private, privately, when you're at home, maybe you're feel safer. You still might experience this fear, but you might be more comfortable going lower because you're at home, you're not worried about how you're going to look or speak. But then this public or social component, if you're going out to a restaurant with friends, if you're speaking, I notice I'm more hyper aware of my blood sugar even before recording right? And there's something about that, like, we don't want to have to deal with feeling low. We don't want to have to deal with maybe, is there any kind of embarrassment, and then you're gonna have to explain what you need. There's also, like, a time component, like, if you know you have, you're going to a doctor's appointment, and you don't want to go low during that appointment. You might experience it in different kind of environments, too differently that this, this type of fear. Does this

Scott Benner 6:04
happen to you professionally, like before you see a client, do you stop for a second assess where you are in an appropriate amount of time so you can fix it beforehand?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:11
That kind of thing I do, yes, I mean, I I try to be in range, but I will notice I'm more vigilant meeting with a client who does not have diabetes. Oh, okay, then with someone who does, and I have had to treat either, you know, have a tab a glucose tablet, or I'll correct if I need to, you know, adjust, you know, with a Bolus. But I have noticed that difference,

Scott Benner 6:38
but you don't feel the same pressure if the person you're talking to has type one.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:43
It's not correct, harsh, yeah, because then it's it's exactly why, you know, I think people like to meet with someone like myself who has type one, but there's an understanding. We don't have to explain it. We don't have to justify it. You just do what you need to do.

Scott Benner 6:59
You don't run the risk of one person not believing it's even true. Where, I've seen that too, where people like they explain their situation and they realize that they're met with somebody who's like, yeah, I don't really believe that you're just making it up. Or you hear that stuff all the time. So do you find yourself Can I ask you questions here? Do you find yourself doing the what do you guys call it catastrophic forecasting? Is that what they call it like, where you run scenarios in your head over and over again, like, Oh, this is going to happen. I'm going to go here. I'm going to get low this is like, you end up freaking yourself out. Is that the risk you run by doing that? And is that a thing people can really even control? Or do you think some people just get caught in that cycle? So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:37
catastrophic thinking is basically, well, this kind of the if scenarios. What if this happens? Also, if this happened this one time? Is this going to happen all the time? Often, when we talk about this fear of hypos, we usually assume that someone might experience the heightened fear if they've had a seizure, or if they've had a really extreme low episode, or they passed out, you know, all the different levels of, like, an extreme low, right, I would say that's maybe 50% of the case. People don't have not had that experience, but they're trying to prevent that. So there's kind of like that, the actual you you're really wanting to avoid the experience and the feeling of the low, that's kind of like the management side. But then there's also this kind of psychosocial side of not one have to deal with it in front of other

Scott Benner 8:30
people I see. So it's possible that you've either had the experience and you're remembering it and wanting to avoid it, or you've heard about it and you're making up in your head what it could be. And therefore, either of these things is making you have that feeling of like, I just this can't happen. I need to make sure this doesn't happen, and then the result of that is a higher blood sugar that you accept.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:48
Yes, and we'll get into kind of understanding what's going on cognitively, how those thoughts, those are distortions that we've talked about before. It feels like truth. It feels like reality, like this is going to happen. I'm going to feel out of control. This is going to if I dip below 150 and the arrows going down, I'm going to die. I'm going to, you know, whatever the worst case scenario is running through your head. It feels so strong, so that you kind of counter that by feeling like you have some sort of semblance of control and keeping yourself higher. Okay,

Scott Benner 9:24
let me ask you a question. So I don't have this experience. Obviously, I don't, I don't use insulin, right? But I have kids, and my children have, at times, been in really dire situations, and there's that feeling that comes the like tension in your chest, rapid heartbeat. You feel sweaty, out of control. You feel like you can't there's nothing you can do to help the situation. It's a feeling of being lost. Is that mimicking how it feels when your body betrays you, like, because that's what it feels like, right? Like your body betrays you, so like when that happens, I think the closest thing I have. A pair it to is when something happens to someone who I love so much that I can't help them at all. Like, am I anywhere near trying? Because I'm just trying to understand for people who don't have it, like, what is the feeling?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:11
I think it's it's a two sided experience. There's the physical symptoms that we we all know well the shakiness, the kind of fast heart rate, the difficulty really thinking clearly. And then there's, there's kind of this uncertainty for a brief period of time of how quickly that feeling is going to go away. So that's where you you do feel a sense of out of control, because you but even though you can maybe, if you don't have this intense fear, in that brief moment, you feel like, okay, I know that these that this one glucose tablet or three tabs or Juicebox is going to break me up, but every time is different. So when you're in that space of feeling the low, it is scary, and you do feel a sense of out of control, but you also in that. And we'll get again, to these steps of like, okay, I know I have this many units of insulin board. I know I have this many carbs digested. I just need to sit here and wait. That's a hard process to get to.

Scott Benner 11:15
That could also be difficult because you're, you're altered to begin with, right and correct. So that's the over treating. That's where the like, I you just keep eating or keep taking stuff in, because you just, that's my assumption. So the assumption I make about over treating is either you can't do the math that you just described, like, how much is in, how much is digested, what have I covered? And so it's a panic, like, I'll just keep eating until, like, this goes the other way, right? Or it's the the fact that you're out of it to begin with. And, I mean, how are you going to keep track of this, even while you're trying to accomplish it? I have to tell you that, like when I see Arden get low and she, you know, she eats or treats something, and then she needs to sit for a minute, she seems so composed, right? Like, and she's, she's not a, like, a panicky person. And I have to remind myself that like, this isn't like me saying, Oh, I'm winded. Let me sit here for a second like there's a lot more going on that I can appreciate. And anyway, like I don't want to come off, like I understand this, like, from a personal perspective, I just, I'm trying to help people talk their way through it, because it is not, and has never been lost on me that she feels a certain way, and I don't know what that is, so it's just Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:27
and that there's like, the physical component, and what you were asking earlier about, like, kind of that emotional component of someone's there's nothing you can do to help that other person, like, kind of that helplessness, or perceived helplessness in that zone. If that becomes so overwhelming that you are avoiding that experience by keeping yourself higher, then you know that you might be dealing with that intense fear.

Scott Benner 12:54
So from a parenting perspective, people avoid doing things that might put them in peril so they never have to feel like that. And on the diabetes side, I'm going to keep my blood sugar higher, because if it gets too variable and low, I don't want to feel like this. So it's all about avoiding the feeling that comes with it. This episode is sponsored by tandem Diabetes Care, and today I'm going to tell you about tandems newest pump and algorithm, the tandem mobi system with control iq plus technology features auto Bolus which can cover missed meal boluses and help prevent hyperglycemia. It has a dedicated sleep activity setting and is controlled from your personal iPhone. Tandem will help you to check your benefits today through my link, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, this is going to help you to get started with tandem, smallest pump yet that's powered by its best algorithm ever control IQ. Plus technology helps to keep blood sugars in range by predicting glucose levels 30 minutes ahead, and it adjusts insulin accordingly. You can wear the tandem Moby in a number of ways. Wear it on body with a patch like adhesive sleeve that is sold separately, clip it discreetly to your clothing or slip it into your pocket head now to my link, tandem diabetes.com/juicebox, to check out your benefits and get started today. Why would you settle for changing your CGM every few weeks when you can have 365 days of reliable glucose data. Today's episode is sponsored by the Eversense 365 it is the only CGM with a tiny sensor that lasts a full year sitting comfortably under your skin with no more frequent sensor changes and essentially no compression lows. For one year, you'll get your CGM data in real time on your phone, smartwatch, Android or iOS, even an Apple Watch, predictive high and low alerts let you know where your glucose is headed before it gets there. So there's no surprises, just confidence, and you can instantly share that data with your. Healthcare Provider or your family, you're going to get one year of reliable data without all those sensor changes. That's the ever since 365 gentle on your skin, strong for your life. One sensor a year, that gives you one less thing to worry about, head now to ever since cgm.com/juicebox, to get started.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:22
Yes, it's avoid. It's an avoidance strategy, kind of behaviorally. But then there is this, you know, psychological component. And then, as I shared before we started recording, you know, there are not very many studies on how to treat and support people living with type one, or actually both type one and type two, psychologically around this fear, because it is that I think we're, obviously, we're talking about mental health more in the diabetes space, but also we're just, we're noticing, we're giving language. And I think there will be more specific studies around this,

Scott Benner 15:57
yeah, well, they're not gonna need a study. They can just listen to this conversation. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. We'll straighten out. Keep

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:03
going. I'm sorry. I think it's also important to note that you are not alone in this. From the American Diabetes Association, they have shared from studies that one out of every seven people living with diabetes, and it's the same for type one, type two experience, and have kind of endorsed experiencing the fo H, and also as a caregiver, you can experience this too obviously from more of a psychological component, because you aren't trying to avoid the fear of feeling the low, but you're trying to Avoid putting your child maybe it feels like in risk and in danger this next

Scott Benner 16:44
point. I mean, I'm super interested in this next point, so I just want you to keep going, but

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:48
that it can develop without a known traumatic low event. Yeah, that yes, yes. So, like, I think we kind of touched on this a little bit without having a seizure or a intense low event or episode, you can still deal and experience and work. You know, you're working really hard, I know, to try and manage the sphere so it is really common. It's not necessarily correlated to having a past episode.

Scott Benner 17:17
So if you asked me to explain to you how Arden treats her diabetes like I've said this a million times. I don't see her talking about herself like type one. I don't see her acting like it's burdening her, but it obviously is. It's burdening everybody to some degree or another, right? But what I've kind of come lately to think is what Arden is doing is she's taking kind of that youthful energy and applying it to diabetes, like, Ah, it's okay. I got it. She's not ignorant of it, and she's not ignoring it, but she she hits it with that, like it's gonna be okay. Let me just get through vibe like that. You know, at a certain age, you have right, and she has had the experience of a seizure, but I haven't seen her freak out about it, but as we're talking about it, like, I wonder, like, is it because of her attitude, or is it because she had to make a conscious decision not to freak out about it, because now she knows, like, she knows what it is, and when she explains it to you, like, in hindsight, she knows how scary it is and beyond scary, like, you know, we're not talking about the safety aspect of it here, but like, this is not an unreasonable thing to be worried about. Like, you can absolutely die from this. Yeah, that's not crazy. I just, I'm always gonna wonder, I guess, like, how she managed it, and if I think she's too young to ask her, like, I think I'd have to wait five more years to ask her, really, like, what did you apply to this situation? When you realize, like, this happens sometimes, and it's not like an hour before it happens, a red light goes off over your head, and it's like, you're gonna have a seizure in an hour, like you it's, you're okay, and then you are not okay. It's, it's that fast. So anyway, I don't know. I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:51
think that's a good point, because the few studies that are out there have have said that there isn't a direct correlate. There is not a direct correlation between having a seizure and having this fear of hypos, this intense fear. So just because you've had a really severe low event, it doesn't mean that you will that you also experience this intense fear all the time. There there's no really direct correlation. Have

Scott Benner 19:18
you ever met somebody who has had a seizure. It's not about diabetes, like something else, like somebody has a seizure disorder or something like that. Like, I'm always impressed by the blase nature in which they talk about it like it really is, like there must just be a moment of just agreeance that you make with the with the universe at some point when you realize that you might be walking around and just have a seizure. Never seen a group of people handle that, like handle something so unknowable, so well. I guess that's what people with diabetes are doing too, right? They're just, you have no choice. Yeah, what else you gonna do? I'm like, Yes, I could sit here, but you know, I got things. I got. To do. So, have you ever dealt with this? Personally?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:03
I have not personally interacted like people with who are either. Yeah, have epilepsy, but I understand the point, because there's it's also kind of, I'm thinking about people with anxiety who experience panic attacks most often. They show up out of the blue. There's no known trigger. So then that creates even more anxiety, right? Because you're anticipating when is this thing going to happen?

Scott Benner 20:28
Yeah, I'm guessing that whatever lets us drive cars is what lets us do this. Do you mean because you look around nobody is like, do you ever really think about driving while you're doing it? Like you're up on a highway and everyone's going 85 miles an hour in like, these death rockets, and at this point now, you remember 20 years ago the I it was like, Oh, these cell phones, everyone's gonna run into each other. And for a while, they did. And then we made a generation of people who learned to drive with their cell phone in their hand. They're awesome at it. I know we're not supposed to say that. Yes, no, no, I know we're not supposed to say that, but people are so good at driving with their phone in their hand now, like, it's not like I was on the highway the other day. I looked over and the guy next to me is looking down to his right, and not for a while, like, and I so I kept checking and looking back. He was looking and looking like, I'm like, he's reading something. And then you drive a little farther and there's a guy, another guy, he's got his phone up on his dashboard, a little holder. He's watching Sports Center. And I'm like, Oh my God. Like, so I got reading guy Sports Center. I got, I got a lady on Facebook. I got, like, I look around, I'm like, There's 50 cars around me. Half these people aren't even looking forward. We're all going 80 miles an hour. No one's hitting each other. I'm like, This is amazing. So, like, it's amazing. It is amazing, right? Like, so, whatever I think it is that lets us get involved in that activity which common sense would tell you not to do, right? Like, seriously, if you let Common Sense Decide you would not get in a car. We do that, and we do it so effortlessly. I wonder how much of whatever that is in people adaptability, I guess, and trust that we put into it. I guess you you end up applying it to this at some point, if you can. It just makes sense to me, but I don't

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:06
know, yes, I mean, then that we'll, we'll, we'll talk about that too. It's kind of trusting. No, am I jumping forward? I'm sorry, trusting the body, you know, trusting your body, trusting the medication. No, it's always good. You're always queuing, queuing me up for the next thing that's good. Go ahead. Okay, so also, these studies have have indicated that most of the time, if you are dealing with extreme fear of hypos, you may also be experiencing higher levels of general anxiety depression. So it often not. This is not all the time, but it doesn't often live by itself. Yeah, they do often go hand in hand.

Scott Benner 22:46
So if I'm experiencing fear of hypoglycemia, I could maybe step back and take a wider look at my life to see if I'm having anxiety in other places too.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:55
Yes, okay, yes, that's that's a good starting point.

Scott Benner 22:58
That's helpful, yeah, okay, oh, that's very helpful to know. Oh, isn't that? I don't know why I never put that together. It's ridiculous that I didn't put that together. But okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:07
again, not, not always the case, right? But they just have noticed that in the research. Yeah, that makes

Scott Benner 23:13
sense. All right. Are we going to talk about ways to address it? Now, the Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and it features a lightning fast 30 minute warm up time that's right from the time you put on the Dexcom g7 till the time you're getting readings 30 minutes. That's pretty great. It also has a 12 hour grace period so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable and light. These things, in my opinion, make the Dexcom g7 a no brainer. The Dexcom g7 comes with way more than just this, up to 10 people can follow you. You can use it with type one, type two, or gestational diabetes. It's covered by all sorts of insurances and, uh, this might be the best part. It might be the best part, alerts and alarms that are customizable, so that you can be alerted at the levels that make sense to you. Dexcom.com/juicebox, links in the show notes. Links at Juicebox podcast.com, to Dexcom and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:27
Oh yes, I was going to note Yes, I want to talk about ways to address it. But also have noticed, and this is also reinforced in the research, people who have been managing type one or type two for a long time, doing finger pricking and then switching to CGM. In the last five ish years, they have noticed an increase, kind of increased fear of hypos, as they have gone from checking their blood sugar, whether it's three times a day or 15 times a day, to then having the constant fear. Feedback, but it also CGM have shown to reduce the fear of hypos. But also, I think, on the opposite side, have kind of increased some of the fear also,

Scott Benner 25:10
maybe, depending on where you come from, when you enter into using a CGM. So if a person's been you, you know, finger pricking their whole life, they don't have these problems. Whether they're having great outcomes or not. They're not passing out. They're not getting shaky. And so they think, well, this works. This is safe, right? And then you put a CGM on them, and they see the variability, and it freaks them out. No kidding, they just the arrows freak them out. That gets going up, it's going down. What are we going to do? Like, and so some people can't say, oh, well, this is what's always been happening, but now I see it. Some people just say I was almost willfully not ignorant, but I was almost willfully ignoring that these things could be happening in the background. I wasn't aware of them

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:49
absolutely. I mean, back in the day, we had no idea you just you were checking three to five times a day and hoping for the best. And so there is, you know, I know we've talked about this before, but there is, you know, that was, like the kind of the gift or blessing of just finger pricking is like you kind of did your thing, yeah? And obviously now it does, you know, kind of increase your ability to have better, like tighter management, yeah? But can also play with your emotional, you know, side of it too. This

Scott Benner 26:22
is, like the modern version of people going from mph and regular, because those people were just like, Look, if, if I didn't get sick and die, I got dizzy once in a while, and other than that, I was good. This all worked. That was the extent I interviewed so many people. The extent of them thinking I was like, I shot it in the morning. I shot it at dinner. You know, I maybe sometimes I got shaky or sweaty, but you know, those lows would come so slowly, they could mostly get in front of them. And nobody was really tracking a 1c the same way. So if they were standing up, they were healthy, and that was good, right? And then you bring those people forward and say, look, here's Lantis and levemir and, you know, like, Let's inject at every meal and count carbs. And they're like, Whoa, no, I'm I'm okay. Like, don't introduce all these other factors. And now the same thing leaving, I guess, just blood glucose meters to CGM, you're just introducing so much more data and so many more things to pay attention to. Oh, no kidding. I wonder how many people this is apropos of nothing that we're talking about, but I wonder how many people get left behind. Left behind because of that, like, every time there's a big jump, I wonder how many people just go, I'm alright, I'll stay here. You know what? I mean, it's interesting.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:30
And whether or not is that, you know, access, the ability to even whether afford it or insurance, or is your doctor bringing it up, you know,

Scott Benner 27:39
yeah, all that is going to involve. But I'm saying, like, once you have the access and you can afford it, like, I wonder how many people see the data and just go up bridge too far, I'm good. I'll stay here. You know what I mean? Because i Because, you know how I think about it. Like, I think that if you're aware of how insulin works, and you have good tools, and you understand how food's impacting you, that most of the time you're going to be able to use insulin in a way that isn't going to leave you with great spikes or great drops, and that I would like if you, if you let me make a wish for you, I'd wish that you were in that space, right? But if you don't know how to use it in a way that you're having that feeling of, like, I'm brittle, like, you know what I mean? Like my blood sugar is all over the place, and this is freaking me out, then there is an argument to be made for mental health and well being that's more than just your blood sugar, yes, yeah. It's very person to person,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:27
absolutely. And I think on that note, transitioning to maybe some tools around this. And this is something if you have been kind of struggling with this intense fear, I wish we could, we could fix it all in an episode. But these are some tools that that I use in sessions with people. And so just I want to encourage you to offer yourself Self Compassion. This is going to take time, because you could have been operating, you know, your neuro pathways and these that are like really dug in, deep and firm, and these distortions that you're going to not be okay when you go low. It takes time to change that. That's a shame. So to be patient with yourself, yeah, as you listen to these tools

Scott Benner 29:10
to expand on that. Like, how do you offer that to yourself? Like, because it probably seems, I mean, I'm going by the people I speak to when they're having a block like that, right? Like, they know intellectually where they should be, but they can't get there psychologically. People sometimes get mad at themselves for that too, yeah, yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:30
right. Or experience shame. Like, why can't I? Like, I know, I know where I want to go, I know what I want to do, but there's something interfering with me getting to that.

Scott Benner 29:40
Yeah, is there a way to help manage the shame while you're giving yourself the time to figure it out?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:46
That's a great question. I mean, that's that's part of what therapy is about, but also reminding yourself you are undoing if it took you five years to get to this place you've been managing with keeping yourself. Yourself above 150 for safety. I'm just making up that number, right? It's going to take time. It might, I mean, hopefully not five years to change that, but it is going to take time. So just reminding yourself, like, Okay, you're moving the needle, and it might be just really slow, but to say, Okay, I'm changing. I'm being patient. I'm going to be kind to myself.

Scott Benner 30:19
Patience. That's what I was thinking. You have to find a way to be patient. I mean, that's a thing. I think everybody's got to find a way in their life to do that. I was not patient as a young person at all, and it it just really did. It takes a lot of time to stop thinking about it's ironic, right? It takes a lot of time to stop thinking about time like it's judging you. Yes, you know what I mean. And instead of just existing and being, and this does, this takes what it takes, and it will be as long as it is going to be, but at the end, we're going to be better off. Let's not worry about whether it's a week, a month or two years. Honestly, the losing weight for me was my last step in becoming a more patient person. You know what I did first to try to teach myself patience. I started growing cactuses because they grow so slow and so I would just think of, instead of like, I want this thing to bloom and grow and get to its full size right away so I can enjoy it. I bought a thing, and I said it could take me three years for this thing to grow to eight inches tall, and I have to be okay with that. I realized I wasn't very patient, and I started with a cactus to try to teach myself patience. So, you know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:30
that is, that's such a beautiful thing. I mean, it's, it's really hard to do in our culture when we have this, you know, immediate gratification type of culture, and, you know, do this for seven days, and you'll feel this way and look this way and drop this many pounds.

Scott Benner 31:46
Yeah, everybody wants it so fast. I have I'm I'll continue on with my stupid story for a second. I have three bushes around my mailbox. They get these yellow flowers on them. So the year you get them and plant them, they're going to have the yellow flowers. But as they're acclimating to the new place you put them, it takes two seasons for the yellow flowers to come back. So I put them out so pretty. Just it sets off the whole thing, you know. And the next year comes along, they get green, and they just sit there, green. And I was like, What is that like? Where are my yellow flowers? So I went and I looked it up, and I was like, two seasons like. I said, What the heck? And I was like, Okay. I just was like, okay, like, this year they're green bushes. Next year they're going to be green bushes. And I swear to you, I had forgotten about it, like in my mind, there are just three green bushes at the mailbox. And I am not lying to you. I can't believe this is coming up right now. The other day, I was pulling into my driveway, and I was like, oh my god, the yellow flowers. I was like, they're back. And it felt so satisfying, like that they were there. I was just like, awesome. Like, now I'm gonna get yellow flowers every year because I waited two years. I'm bitch

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:54
about that. Like, that's like, making me feel emotional. I don't know why.

Scott Benner 32:58
Oh my god, Eric, is cry. Are you crying? I don't

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:01
know. It's bringing tears to my eyes. I think it's like a beautiful illustration of patience.

Scott Benner 33:06
I swear to God, this happened. Like, I am not making any of this up. I just pulled it. I was like, Oh, I got my flowers. I was like, awesome. And I was like, they're gonna be yellow all summer. It's gonna be wicked. And like a next year, next year. I was like, I did it like, but it really did somehow more meaningful that I had to wait for them. Like, I know this is not me. Like, you know, it's not like I had to do sit ups every day to get a six pack for 20 years or something like that. But like, it was really a, I don't know, I just, I was really, I just felt grateful that when I realized that was gonna take two more seasons, I was just like, Okay, I guess that's just what it is. And I'm telling you that losing weight, like, I tried so many times, like, oh, in two weeks, I lost this many pounds. In a month, I lost this many like, I'm and then, you know, six weeks later, you're like, I can't keep doing this. Like, it's taken forever until I realized that it's the framing of the time that's when it all became easy, like, now I'm here, like I'm where I mean to be. I just said this with Jenny the other day, but you're one of the only people that looks at me all the time, like I'm a completely different person than I was two years ago. You are if I would have said I need to be here two weeks from now when I started, that's unreasonable. It wasn't going to happen. So anyway, like, if you're struggling with this, like the amount of the time isn't important. What's important is if you get there, yes, that's all. I'm sorry. That was 110 points. I just spoke 10 minutes on. I'm sorry,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:29
but it is really crucial, because I do hear people getting frustrated with themselves, you know, okay, we talked about this once, and I'm still, I still can't do it like that's it is okay, and you're normal.

Scott Benner 34:43
I am overwhelmed by the number of people I see who beat themselves up or even sometimes mad at me, like I listened to your episode, and my a 1c, is not six. I'm like, Well, you don't, you know it's not that quick, that kind of thing, like, and I know how badly you want to get to the thing, but there's a process. Yes. So anyway, I'm sorry, you're you're next. No, it's good.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:03
I think we mentioned this already, but I think it's important as you are starting to kind of face or if you're wanting to make changes around the fear, if it's impacted your quality of life, if it's impacted how you you know function, make decisions if it's impacted your management. And you're saying, Okay, I want to make changes. Also, just holding that as you are leaning into making some changes, you might experience increased levels of anxiety, which also, as we know, can feel like you're low. And so we're going to kind of walk you through some, hopefully some helpful tools. But I think it's important just to validate that like it is, it's, this is a complicated thing. As you're facing your fear, you're feeling the anxiety, and then that can trigger, oh my gosh, am I low? No, I'm anxious. I'm anxious about being low. It's, it is, you know, just a big thing to tackle. Yeah, okay, okay. So I think first we want to really understand the thoughts that are driving the behaviors. And we've talked about cognitive behavioral therapy, it's really has an emphasis on how our thoughts and our feelings impact our behaviors and vice versa. It's the cognitive triangle. You can start one way. You can start with your behavior, which might impact your thoughts and how you feel. Oftentimes, we are responding from our thoughts most of the time. So for example, if that thought is driving you, the thought of, if I go low, I'll pass out and no one will be there to help me, right? That's a pretty powerful thought. Yeah, yeah. That thought is going to make you feel anxious. I'm sure you're feeling the anxiety. If you're, if you're living with that thought driving you kind of all day long, then your behaviors are what we've talked about. You're going to reduce your basal, your suggested basal rates. You might eat more carbs. You might correct at a higher number, because that thought is, if I, if I go, if I dip below this number, I'm not going to be okay. And so that's impacting your behaviors and your feelings about it, okay? So what we want to do is challenge and examine that distortion, right? Whether that's kind of, that is kind of a catastrophic thought, right, that if this, if I go low, this is going to happen. And that feels like it's going to happen for sure, even though we can step out of our body and say, well, we probably isn't, yeah, it's harder than just changing your thoughts. But that's where you're going to start. So you're going to write down next to wherever your mirror, your kitchen table, in multiple places. I've gone low before, and I've treated it. And I have my my tool, my safety tools. So you could say I have my CGM, my glucose tablets, so and so is following me, and so you have that posted and printed everywhere. Yeah, okay, so that's what you're kind of living you're kind of meditating on that,

Scott Benner 38:06
Okay, should I keep going? I was just going to tell you that this helped me so much when I had back pain when I was younger person, just the idea of, like, the first time I had pain, that I went to a doctor, and the doctor told me there was a problem, and then I saw my back as broken, and then it hurt again, and it got worse, and it became like psychosomatic, I guess is the best way I can put it. I don't know if that's the right phrasing, but I read John sarno's book about back pain, and he told me to repeat, in my mind, my back is not broken. I'm okay. I'm not injured. I'm okay, and that helps so much. I can't begin to tell you. So anyway, yes, you can keep going. But

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:44
so that's so good. I mean, it is. I know it can become changing your thoughts. People can. It might feel like, well, it's, it's not as easy as that, and it isn't, but it's part of, that's part

Scott Benner 38:56
of stupid. The first time I read it, and then, yeah, then I did it and I did it and I did it, and I don't have to do it anymore. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:02
yeah, yes, easier said than done, particularly when you are starting to see the arrow diagonal down or straight down, regardless of the number. So again, I keep saying 150 but maybe your number is 200 and we kind of talk about like you have a psychologically safe range, right? If you're living with this intense fear most of the time, you've created the psychologically safe range that you feel comfortable in. But what we're wanting to do is get you to a medically safe range. Okay? So we're going to talk through some steps, and this is kind of a bit of exposure therapy, graduated exposure therapy. So as you're thinking about right now, what your psychologically safe range is, we're going to move you step by step, trying to get you to a medically safe range for one specific tool. I read this. Where is. Reframe your CGM, if you use one, if you don't, maybe reframe how you see your blood sugar meter. Use it as a safety net and not a threat detector. Yeah, I just love that. So you're, you're looking at your numbers, and instead of when we see the arrow down, be like, Oh no, I'm going, like, I'm going down. I'm gonna die. I'm gonna I'm gonna pass out. I'm not going to be okay. I'm feeling really scared to then to say this is also part of kind of changing, being aware of your thoughts is, oh, this is, this is my safety net. This is helping me. This is telling me I'm going low, but I'm okay. I have my tools, I have my my glucose tablets. I have all the things I need right here, right

Scott Benner 40:45
I want that beep, that beep, that beep, is there ahead of time so that I can stop a problem from happening. This is why I would preach all day long that your high alarm shouldn't be 400 or three. You shouldn't be like I don't want the thing to beep, so I'll turn the alarm off. You want it to tell you when you get to 130 so that you can stop the 130 with a tiny bit of insulin that is not going to make you low later. Like, this is, it's so funny that we're getting to this, but like, this is the basis of the Pro Tip series, right? Like, is that bumping and nudging and using small amounts of insulin to keep yourself in range so that you don't have, you know, emergent problems, high or low from all the insulin or the waiting and the mist timing of the insulin that can come from the waiting. It's interesting. Go ahead. I'm so

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:30
sorry. Yes, yes. And that's like the management side, like the How to side, yeah. And what we're trying to kind of fill in the blanks of, okay, what the feeling and the thoughts are driving some of those behaviors? So for like, the high alarm, if the if you're kind of psychologically safe, range is, oh, I'm okay, up until 250 we want to slowly bring that down. I think, to start with, I would suggest, most of the time, if you're living with this intense fear, you're looking at your CGM all of the time, or a lot of the time, at least. That's what the research shares. That's what I hear a lot, is you are just you're constantly staring at it. Okay, so we want to do two things. We're going to talk about, kind of the the ranges, but also, as soon as you get that urge to look at your CGM, you want to wait one minute. And that this is for people who are looking at all the time. If you're looking at it every five minutes, then bump it up by one minute. Wherever you are, bump it up by a minute. Okay, so that's part of the exposure therapy. So you get that, you feel this urge. I'm like, Oh, am I? Where am I? You're gonna pause, set a timer for a minute. Okay, okay. You're gonna do your deep breath. You can do your grounding activity. You can set a timer and do a loop around the space that you're in. You can say your mantra, I'm okay. I have my my glucose, I'm safe. You do the 12345, right? The Yeah, you can do the grounding technique, yes, okay, okay. So obviously you want to increase that. So you are going to experience, as you increase the time of looking at your CGM, you are going to experience anxiety, and that is okay. And so that's we're wanting to distract yourself by these coping mechanisms of deep, breathing, grounding exercise, whatever it may be. And then you get to reward yourself. And so increasing that from every one minute, five minutes, 10 minutes, hour to after meals, then then building in the trust with the alarms, yeah, okay, like with, you said, with the high blood sugar of the, excuse me, the high range number, most often people are setting or creating a higher like, let's say like 150 to 250

Scott Benner 43:58
for example. So with graduated

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:01
exposure therapy, if we're trying to bring you back into a medically safe range, you're going to go slow so you're going to move it by this is kind of going back to the patients and time piece. Yeah, it doesn't really matter if you're bringing your range down by one point or five points, you're doing it really slowly and in that you are again practicing coping mechanisms to calm your your nervous system, while same simultaneously increasing your kind of that frustration tolerance, that anxiety, as you Reduce the ranges. Does that make sense? Am I making sense?

Scott Benner 44:43
So you're trying to, like, extend that hyper vigilant space to keep like, I don't know, like your cortisol or your adrenaline from happening so frequently, right? And is that, am I making sense? Okay, yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:55
So you're you're wanting to swing from being kind of hyper vigilant. To just like appropriately vigilant, right? Because it's it's impacting the quality of your life, emotionally and physically and so again, this is going to take time by reducing these numbers. And this is again building, then building, and trust with your alarms and with your body, the slower you do it, the better, honestly, because it will feel too scary. And then, as you're reducing your ranges and becoming more comfortable with being lower, you're also building trust with your body. You're building trust with your blood sugar. You're building trust with your insulin because you have these like micro increments that are also changing the way you're thinking, okay, so every day your range is lower and you don't crash and you don't have a seizure, you're building in more and more kind of mass experience to replace those cognitions, those distortions, with actual truth, like, oh, okay, I'm 149 and I didn't crash, yeah, I didn't I didn't have a seizure. Okay, I'm 148 I'm okay. As you're kind of playing around with this exposure to lower numbers, it's really important to have that you know kind of off the top of your mind, or that you work for you. So again, whether it's five finger breathing, it's flower candle breathing, it's putting your hand over your heart and doing five deep breaths, doing 54321, or 321, grounding, having something you enjoy in the house or in your workplace that you know you okay when I when I experience this scary moment, I'm gonna do X, Y or Z to calm my body and distract myself until I get to look at My CGM.

Scott Benner 47:00
Okay. That episode, by the way, 913, is the 54321, method that you and I went over if somebody wants to go listen to it, if they're looking for

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:08
a coping mechanism. Yes, awesome. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. That's basically grounding yourself to the present moment, using your senses, identifying things you can see, touch or hear. You can also add in smell and taste, but oftentimes it's easiest to do those, you know, sight, touch and sad sound.

Scott Benner 47:29
You know, I think maybe too it's probably important to remember that that feeling of a falling blood sugar or low blood sugar, it's probably mimics pretty closely anxiety to begin with, right? So if you're anxious and then that happens, the ramping up is is probably significant for people who are experiencing it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:47
Yes, and I think you know, there's the the physical fear again, of wanting to avoid feeling the low. And if a lot of what is preventing you from being in a medically safe range is not wanting to deal with it socially or publicly. I would also encourage you to kind of think about what is your relationship like with diabetes, right? And how which is a huge topic, right? But if you are constantly making decisions at your own expense, but to protect the other people around you, for example, if you're already eating out at a restaurant, maybe you're going low, or maybe you don't want to go low, so you're keeping yourself higher because you don't want people to have to feel uncomfortable with you having to correct or do anything you know that feels different in a public space, You are putting the comfort and needs of other people before your own medical safety. And I get that it's uncomfortable to feel low in public. It just is. It really is getting to a place of acceptance and understanding. You also need to take care of yourself, even if it makes other people feel uncomfortable if you have to get your supplies out in front of other people. Health

Scott Benner 49:04
First, I've been feeling organized since she was little, you know, like there's people who are gonna look weird or say something, we don't care about them. We care about you. We care about doing the right thing for you. That's step one. I felt for her, and I feel for anybody else who who is in a public situation and realizing that they're being looked at or judged, and it's hard for them, like, I have to tell you, like, it's not in my personality to care, but I speak to a lot of people who do, and the way they describe it to me, it's debilitating for them. They freeze because they're so concerned, and it's not, it's not just a conscious decision to be concerned about what other people think. It just is like, I don't make a conscious decision to kind of not care, like it's just wiring, you know what I mean? So you got to find a way to put yourself first.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:53
So yes, and it's and it's a journey, and there's no going back to the time, you know. Like we need to you need to be okay with being okay in public, but certain age, yeah, that you everyone is on their own journey.

Scott Benner 50:10
It should be a goal of yours to try to get to that no matter how long it takes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:13
Yeah, I think it's, it's acceptance of the diabetes. It's acceptance of of you living with it. And it's not all of you, right? But it is. It is a part of you, yeah? But it's, it takes work,

Scott Benner 50:27
okay? You've done it again. In my opinion. I feel like, what's that cartoon Phineas? J whoopee, we've, what is that exact I can't, oh, my god, no. I said, so old. You don't know. Trust me, no, I don't know, but what is it? He said, finish. We've done it again, like they're just like, congratulating each other anyway. That's what I felt like just now. I felt like, what? All right, hold on a second. I'll look it up real quick.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:50
So a cartoon that says we've done it again, I think

Scott Benner 50:53
he's a Phineas. He's like, yes, hold on, Phineas. J won cartoons, I don't worry. I've put chat GPT on. That's figuring it out right now for me. Okay, okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:04
I'm like, I got a song that came up that I don't think a

Scott Benner 51:08
walrus. Is he a walrus? I swear to God, I haven't looked yet. If I'm right about him being a walrus, like, I'm gonna be like, cartoons used to not be as good as they are. Now, those of you who grew up are like, Oh yeah,

Unknown Speaker 51:19
I'd say they were actually better. I've seen Toy Story. You

Scott Benner 51:21
would not have enjoyed this if you think Toy Story is what it needs to look like. Also, Toy Story is 20 years old. So, yes, all right, here it goes. It's Tennessee tuck Oh my God, I am so old. It's Tennessee tuxedo. It's like a cartoon from the 60s. And I'm pretty sure,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:38
okay, I have it up. Oh my gosh.

Scott Benner 51:41
There's no way you know any of this. Like, it's like,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:45
it is a walrus and a penguin. It looks like a penguin and a walrus.

Scott Benner 51:51
I think the penguin would say to the walrus, if I'm not Jesus, anyway, I listen. Let's stop this. I hope you're not afraid. I hope you're not afraid of hypoglycemia after this or that. It helps you somehow. Oh, but anyway, I think Tennessee tuxedo would say to the walrus, Phineas J Whoopi, we've done it again. That's what I just thought. This could be early onset.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:16
It must be a Friday,

Scott Benner 52:17
yeah, this could be dementia coming. I'm not gonna lie to you. All right, thank you so much. I really appreciate

Unknown Speaker 52:23
it. You're welcome.

Scott Benner 52:26
I've restarted the recording because I just got the return. I've mashed together 219 60s cartoons. This is what chatgpt tells me. So apparently in Mr. Magoo, they used to go, oh, Magoo, you've done it again. And Phineas J Whoopi would be told by Tennessee tuxedo after every lesson, Phineas J Whoopi, we've done it again. Oh, Phineas, you've done it again. So I'm misremembering the lines, but the lines were actually, Phineas J, whoopee, you're the greatest and, oh, Magoo, you've done it again. And my brain has melded those two together into Phineas J, Whoopi, you've done it again. How about that? By the way, I'm the only one listening to the PI even if Erica re listened to this episode, she shut it off by now. But like, I'm she's like, I'm not listening to this bullshit. Like we already did the thing with the free guy. See me. I'm trying to get the Saturday anyway. Oh my gosh. So everything you think you remember, you probably don't remember, and I'll see you later. Goodbye. Yeah, the podcast episode that you just enjoyed was sponsored by ever since CGM, they make the ever since 365 that thing lasts a whole year. One insertion every year. Come on. You probably feel like I'm messing with you, but I'm not. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast was sponsored by the new tandem Moby system and control iq plus technology. Learn more and get started today at tandem diabetes.com/juicebox check it out. Dexcom sponsored this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom g7 at my link. Dexcom.com/juicebox you Thanks. Hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Hey, kids, listen up. You've made it to the end of the podcast. You must have enjoyed it. You know what else you might enjoy the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. I know you're thinking, Oh, Facebook, Scott, please. But no, beautiful group, wonderful people, a fantastic community Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Of course, if you have type two, are you touched by diabetes in any way? You're absolutely welcome. It's a private group. So. Have to answer a couple of questions before you come in. We make sure you're not a bot or an evildoer. Then you're on your way. You'll be part of the family. Hey, what's up, everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way recording doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you wrong way recording.com you got a podcast. You want somebody to edit it. You want rob you.