#1154 After Dark: Sterling Silver

Sterling has type 1 diabetes. WARNING: This conversation contains the topic of physical and sexual abuse. 

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1154 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show I'm going to be speaking with Sterling. She's 27 years old was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 23. She's a figure and commercial model. Her father was an Olympian. And at one point, Sterling was on her way to being a professional golfer. I want to let you all know up front that this conversation will involve physical and sexual abuse, so please be ready. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. If you'd like to help with type one diabetes research and are a US resident you're in luck because the T one D exchange is looking for you. The T one D exchange is looking for people living with type one diabetes or their caregivers to fill out a quick survey T one D exchange.org/juicebox. You can help type one diabetes research right from your sofa and it'll just take 10 minutes T one d exchange.org/juicebox this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org and find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that check them out at touched by type one.org. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod and the Omni pod five. Learn more and get started today at Omni pod.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever sent CGM and implantable six month sensor is what you get with ever since. But you get so much more exceptional and consistent accuracy over six months, and distinct on body vibe alerts when you're high or low on body vibe alerts. You don't even know what that means. Do you ever since cgm.com/juicebox, go find out.

Sterling 2:34
My name is Sterling Hawkins and I am 27 years old. I was diagnosed at 23 in 2019 in January with type one diabetes. And I am I mean a summary. I'm a figure model my commercial model. I'm an art director and I manifest and that's just kind of how I get everything in life. So yeah.

Scott Benner 2:59
Excellent. Who named you? Was it for a superhero movie? Or like your name is terrific. I always think it when I say it.

Sterling 3:06
Yeah. My father, my dad named me and he named me based off the football player.

Scott Benner 3:13
Sterling Sharpe,

Sterling 3:15
yes. Because he really wanted boys. And he wanted to be a sports dad. And then he got two girls and he was like, Okay, we're still I'm still gonna be a sports dad. And I'm gonna name you that and then he did my sister Alon, which is he watched the Mulan movie and he's like, I like move on. But I'm gonna change it to an E instead. So

Scott Benner 3:41
that's what happened. Did he make you play sports?

Sterling 3:43
Oh, yes. I mean, we played tennis basketball. He was really into Serena and Venus Williams and he really thought as like to two black women and two black children. We could get better opportunity doing no sports that also didn't really have too many black people in it. So we did golf. And that's kind of what it dwindled down to was golf and we were we're headed serious. I was headed towards professional until I got diagnosed with diabetes. I got full ride scholarship to school for it. Wow. My my handicap was a plus one.

Scott Benner 4:21
Oh my god. I don't know what that means. But it sounds very impressive.

Sterling 4:26
It's impressive, but it definitely a long way from being anywhere in the top 10. But I was that that was kind of the the goal. My whole life. That's kind of how He raised us. He's an Olympian, too. He was in the Olympics in 1984 in the LA Olympics.

Scott Benner 4:44
Yeah, hurdles. No kidding.

Sterling 4:46
Yeah. So he got he got six plays because he actually hurt his knee. Going over one of the hurdles I don't know if it was that time but it he thought that they set it up incorrectly. So he hurt his knee during the Olympics.

Scott Benner 5:03
Oh, wow. Yeah. But by the way, because of the internet, this is fascinating. Sterling Hawkings was named the 2017 PacWest. Golfer of the

Sterling 5:15
year, I have a few news articles on me somewhere.

Scott Benner 5:19
That that's really interesting. Oh my gosh. And so, you and your talk while you're really talking? Yeah,

Sterling 5:25
yeah, I'm six one, but I'm mostly wearing heels most of the time. So I am six, five, which does not deter the five, six men, the five, six men. It doesn't stop them, they still come, they still come more so than the six foot men, the six foot men have a serious insecurity issue versus the five, six men throwing

Scott Benner 5:43
I'm going to tell you something that I'm gonna end up having to bleep out portions. But I just put up an episode with a blind woman. Yeah. Gets dick pics on dating. No. Yes. Oh. And they know, by the way, wow. Fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah.

Sterling 6:03
So it's like, it's like, she doesn't see it. But she knows because I'm writing that I sent it. And that's what's the exciting part?

Scott Benner 6:14
Yeah, I guess the assumption is, well, she's gonna have to show it to somebody to help like, anyway, I think that's a fascinating look into some men's like psyches. Yeah, I really do. And the same thing. So guys that are six, seven inches shorter than you come up to you with all the all the confidence in the world. And

Sterling 6:34
all the confidence without any type of respect.

Scott Benner 6:38
I was like, how does that happen? Um, because

Sterling 6:40
I've been I was in that. So I stopped going into the dating world after I only started going into the dating world. As surprising as this is as being a model. I only started this year, I was with my ex for about three and a half, four years. And he was the first one who even had the courage to ask me anything. And I just said, Yes, straight on the spot. I was like, Sure. And we lived together like six months after we dated. And we stayed through COVID together. And you know, he's a really great guy. But things just didn't quite work out the way that I had wanted. And I was like, Okay, well, I've never dated. So let's try that. And then I'm like, let's not do that. Again.

Scott Benner 7:22
I don't think you can give up after one tries throwing, oh,

Sterling 7:25
it was 250 Man I've talked to so try, but I, you know, I use my dad's diligence of doing 200% into something and I really did that. And I said, you know, I'm gonna take a break now.

Scott Benner 7:39
There is there is really something to it. My wife is I mean, five, nine. And that's not compared to you not tall. But compared to most women I meet the course of the day, she's tall. And she told me that she's like, boys like shied away from her constantly. All the guys, all the guys, this is not good for me. But all the guys she was looking for generally speaking, like we're scared to talk to her.

Sterling 8:02
Yeah, they're just they're intimidated when they know that I I'm really independent art and my dad grew up super independent. So I don't really take like, BS from anyone. And, you know, it's hard to get through to me. So it's like, it's not worth it. You know, so you know, being a model, and then having a sense of self to having a mortality stand and ground and being also very serious, like the intention to marry. whether, you know, through dating, it's like that seriousness, intention, is what I'm looking for. In some people, most people are not looking for that. And I've been through the age ranges I've been from I've dated people who are like, I've talked to people who are 23. And I've talked to people who are 36, which is, you know, on both spectrums of my age, and I just haven't quite like, figured out what area of group is best for me because they're all similar. Do you

Scott Benner 8:59
do you think people look at you like a trophy? Because you're, you're different because you're taller? Like, is that like, that is an example like you think, Oh, wow, I'll see if I can't get a tall girl. Or like, Do you know what I mean? Like, do you think that happens? Do you have any feelings for what happens? Yeah.

Sterling 9:15
Yeah, I mean, I think that definitely happens. I think, like, it's the idea that I'm not because even people and even men who are looking for relationships, they don't see me as a relationship. They see me as someone who is a trophy in that way. It was interesting when I first started, you know, going and talking to these dates. I only I actually only went on seven dates in the first month. Like I actually went out after that I didn't go out because one, you know, men were too intimidated to go out with me. They call it castering. Nowadays, when they say oh yeah, I'll take you out. Oh, yeah, let's do this. We can ride in my car and I'm like, okay, when and they're like, sometime

Scott Benner 9:59
at some For you kidding. Well, you're you're also you're unique looking. And you're pretty, but you're like, you don't mean like there's like, I don't know this Yeah. Into my psyche. Yeah. But you're unique and pretty at the same time. Yeah. Like, like, I don't like I don't look you in the face and think, oh my gosh, like, you've got to, like Sunday. Yeah. That that that kind of feeling. Yeah. Makes sense to you. Yeah.

Sterling 10:22
Yeah, exactly. I'm sure I'm sure isn't day has been through a similar run. So I should probably hold on to Tom Holland so fast. Like, this is like, I'm ready to get married.

Scott Benner 10:33
This boy is talking to me.

Sterling 10:37
Like that, it's not hard to get to me. It's just being confident and also getting to know me, I think a lot of these guys like, I do mostly show my art direction. Like, on my dating apps, or like, in person or anything, I mostly show my art. They go towards my modeling instead. And then they're like, how did you get into modeling? And I'm like, Well, do you want to actually hear the whole story about, you know, how I was raped as a child and molested through my whole life. And like, I couldn't wear clothes. And I thought I looked like a boy. And you know, like, going through this whole iteration. And then at the end of all of that, you know, and being like, I am naked in front of people because I wanted to take power in my body and myself. And I thought, you know, I'm uncomfortable about this, so I should do it. And at the end of it, they're like, Wow, you're just really pretty.

Scott Benner 11:24
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Sterling 13:49
Wow. And that's that's the end of the conversation there. I'm like, great. Thank you. It sounds like more than once. Thank you. Thank you for letting me know.

Scott Benner 13:57
Well, Sterling, I I'm going to ask you a question that I guess because you brought it up and you took me by surprise. You know, before we started talking, you're like, you know, how do you want this conversation? I said, Just tell your story. And you said it could get dark and I was like that's fine. I didn't know it was gonna get that dark. You don't worry. It's just not my I didn't start a diabetes podcast thinking I'd have conversations like this, but I certainly have had a number of them. So what do you mean, what happened? Like what happened when you were a child? Yeah,

Sterling 14:27
so I am so open to talking about this. And like before I even start is the reason why is because I wanted to be calm. And my goal is to be able to motivate people in the world. And to be able to do that you got to be vulnerable. And so I've been really learning about this healing journey and just talking about it more so that I can resonate with people. Because a lot of people look at me and they're like, Oh, you're so thin. You're so x, y z you know, and they don't know if they don't know how diabetes until they see my pump now that I have or they don't know my story until I told them that I was actually 50 pounds heavier, you know. And so, with that, that's kind of my intention when I tell people so I'm open to any questions or anything. But what happened was younger. My sister I think was about three, I was about five. And it was actually our we lived in a neighborhood. That was a cul de sac. And we had a babysitter who was one of my childhood friends who's unfortunately addicted to cocaine, and like all of that now, because his whole entire life was awful. But we grew up with her and she, she babysat us. And eventually, she, you know, I don't know how descriptive but just, she would basically physically abused me or my sister, if we didn't do what she said she would line us up outside the room, and like, I would go into the room. And then whatever, I had to do whatever she told me to do, and then she'd be like, go get your sister. And if I didn't listen, she would, you know, punish me. She would send my sister on me. So my sister was too young, like, I was too young to understand, but my sister was even younger. So she would prompt my sister to chase me on the room and like, hit me with toy trains. Like, gosh, so I would be running for my life crying, and I'd be telling her to please save me as a child, and she would just be laughing, and she thought it was hilarious.

Scott Benner 16:21
How much older was she than you?

Sterling 16:23
She was probably 16. Okay. So much, much older. Yeah. So she,

Scott Benner 16:30
she'd abused you physically have the two of you abused each other physically? And then she asked you to perform sexual acts on her. That's right. Yes. Well, yeah. So how long did that go on for?

Sterling 16:43
I don't remember. I mean, unfortunately, with a lot of my childhood stuff, I only remember, blips up until 20, up until I was 20. Because my brain just kind of turned everything off. So I don't know how long it went for or went on for. I mean, we stayed at that house for quite some time, I didn't fully tell my family until I was 23. Because I just didn't want like, obviously, the victim's point of view is not telling the family because you don't want them to worry, because you're already tired. So that's kind of how I was when I was growing up. I was very closeted, like I was very nonverbal. And a part of me like so I did get diagnosed with the possibility of ASD and ADHD, which also doesn't help my dating life. But, but I got diagnosed with those two, and I'm just not sure if the correlation is is with the trauma because it was so young, but there's nothing to compare to what what what I was like before that. Sure. And so I just was very quiet growing up, I have a lot of sensory issues. And yeah, it was just a very different person growing up. I was I felt like I looked like a guy like I felt super ugly. I felt I was 50 pounds heavier. And I couldn't figure out ever How to lose that weight. When

Scott Benner 18:05
you were 50 pounds heavier than you are now. How tall are you?

Sterling 18:08
I was probably like 511. I mean, I've been six foot like I'm 11 Six foot? Yeah, in high school, I guess.

Scott Benner 18:16
Would you call it like extra weight? Was it like strength? No, it was like

Sterling 18:21
bigger weight. Like I have all the stretch marks and you know, the tiger marks we call them from losing all of that weight. After I turned I think after I turned 19 I started I lost like 20 pounds, which was crazy for me to see. And then after that I kind of lost a few more. And then you know now I'm like around 170. So I used to be there and to 15 to 20. And I'm like at 170. So,

Scott Benner 18:50
how how old were you? You said you were in your late 20s When you are in your 20s Excuse me when you told your family about what happened with the babysitter but did you ever tell anyone else did you and your sister ever speak about it?

Sterling 19:04
No. My sister actually unfortunately for for her. She didn't remember it. But she did get Bell's palsy. She had Bell's palsy when she was very little. And I think it was the stress of that. But her she didn't know and after that she I think fully blocked it out to the point where we've talked a little bit about this or I've talked to my mom about this but she would just kind of play down or even the mullah molestation from other people like I've been felt up by homeless men. Even that growing up she'd be like, I don't see the problem.

Scott Benner 19:37
When you were younger that happened to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Throughout my

Sterling 19:42
throughout my life up until I like regained. My sense of self was been around like 2223 Like when I got diagnosed with diabetes that changed my life. So like all the way up until 20 People would like, like in high school, they would come up and grab my breasts. You know, it wasn't like I was wearing anything revealing I would never I would wear like long jeans and like, obviously very closed off. But they would come up and grab me. I was very innocent and like with the, the homeless man situation. For some reason, it's kind of interesting. But for some reason, I was a very loving person, even though I didn't like to be touched. And so I was like, I always gave out candies and gifts to random strangers. And people. I don't know why I do this, but I still do this to this day. And I did that for him. This one guy, and he was like, I can't have candy. I'm diabetic. And he's like, but can I have a hug from you? And like, he wouldn't let me go. And he just felt me all the way up. And this was back when I was 13. Or 14, this was actually Christmas Eve, which didn't make it any better. But you know, I had a hard time telling that story. Because it's something that I decided to let him do to me. And I didn't realize, you know, like, don't touch strangers.

Scott Benner 20:57
I have two questions. Was it difficult to know that you had this experience? And your sister couldn't remember it? It wasn't

Sterling 21:04
difficult, because I didn't know, back then I didn't know what was different. So I mean, it wasn't a shared experience in the way of this is different from my normal life. I don't know how to explain that. It's just like, I don't remember anything before that. So I thought that was normal normal for a very long time, because I didn't understand what it meant to not be normal. You know,

Scott Benner 21:30
that. My My other question is, did your parents I don't know, I never asked if you grew up with two parents? Or how you how you grew up? It didn't No one notice. Like, or were they just in a situation where they had to use this babysitter, and they didn't have any other options? Like did no one notice you were unhappy? Or that you didn't you already mean the kind site?

Sterling 21:50
Yeah, so that's the other side of, you know, the issues that arose. And we don't really talk about this much. But I don't mind talking about podcasts, because I do want to have conversations about this is like my family life growing up was was not great at all. And unfortunately, my mom was getting off depression medication. And so she for 12 years, since I was like, nine was erratic, you know, all the way up until we were like 19. And it was just it, there was no, there was no reason for them to observe me, or ask me because the way that I was raised was very in, like, my dad wanted me to like, and my, you know, my sister to live vicarious. Like, he wanted to live vicariously through us. And so a sports you know, we never went, I didn't get to go to birthday parties growing up, I didn't really hang out with people growing up. You know, with my mom's side, it was a it was a battle of who, who loved her and who loved us. And you know, it was, it was a battle every single day to me kind of being the scapegoat. I have been called every single name under the sun, by my family on a daily basis. So they

Scott Benner 23:07
were either ignoring you or trying to turn you into something that they thought was gonna make money. Yeah,

Sterling 23:12
it was more like, you know, my dad's thinking of intention was like, Oh, she's gonna get a scholarship. And she just has this view of me of us being somewhere. I don't know if it was to make money or not. He doesn't really talk much about that. Or I didn't really notice. But

Scott Benner 23:30
my my kid played college sports, and I thought of it as making money. Yeah, I thought I thought of it as saving money. That's

Sterling 23:39
right. That's that's kind of how my dad thought, you know, it was saving money. Even though golf is very expensive.

Scott Benner 23:47
Yeah, I know. It's funny, like, we're gonna save money if this works out. If it doesn't work out, then we'll just keep carrying around your very expensive golf clubs and all the green fees and everything. That's, that's right.

Sterling 23:58
Yeah, yeah, he has a very different point of view, like my family right now, as a disclaimer, like, we're better now. Great. Um, you know, it's, it's a better situation, because I'm not necessarily living there. But

Scott Benner 24:11
it's much easier to get along with that, but you don't say.

Sterling 24:17
That's right. That's right.

Scott Benner 24:18
Do you have any other autoimmune issues? So

Sterling 24:21
I have hormonal issues. I don't know of any other autoimmune. The hormones like I have to take birth control, I had to actually got an IUD. Because right before I fully became diagnosed, which is like, you know, after my honeymoon is what I'm considering that which was three years later. Yeah. My body just like started with my periods, like halfway through for like, two weeks at a time, like my body would just drag so I felt like a stroke patient.

Scott Benner 24:52
Yeah. Where you had, like very heavy periods, or were they longer or

Sterling 24:59
Yeah, They're very heavy, they were very heavy, but it got to the point where like they would be late. And like my body and my feet would just like numb up. And so I had to go on something or, you know, I couldn't go work out I had anemia on top of that, so that's kind of the only auto immune that I have, like are the hormonal thing. I don't have any others that I know of like, I'm not even lactose. That was something that I joked around with with my sister when I first got diagnosed is like I'm not lactose you are. At least I have that on me. You know?

Scott Benner 25:38
And I'm winning.

Sterling 25:42
Yeah, exactly. I got that one on you. But that's the like, I don't think I have celiac. I've never experienced any type of things like that. Yeah, so I think that's like the only one that I know of that is that is at least prevalent right now.

Scott Benner 26:00
Check this out. ADHD has been related to autoimmune diseases, with epidemiological studies reporting positive within individual associations with several specific autoimmune disorders such as celiac ulcerative colitis, psoriasis. I can I can ever say this, this one Ankylosing Spondylitis type one diabetes. So I will tell you that a lot of people I talked to seem to have ADHD in their family when they when they have like, other autoimmune stuff.

Sterling 26:29
Yes, yes. And I only found out I had ADHD and probably ASD back in November of this last year. Okay, now that I'm so glad that I, you know, a lot of people told me to not seek out this information. They were like, just be quirky. And I for me personally to anybody, like I always say learn as much as you can about yourself because then you can at least utilize tools that can help you get through life and help you recognize why you do some things you know, my dad is definitely undiagnosed ADHD didn't know this growing up because you know, living with someone who has ADHD How can you know any different from the family you live with? You know, he he tends to, to move or his his emotions go up and down a lot, because I don't he doesn't understand. I think why he is the way he is. I'm really glad that I got diagnosed because it helps me see like, what, you know why I act certain ways why I'm so forgetful sometimes. Why can be a little erratic here and there hyper fixated, like, especially on people or crushes, and understanding that too. But yeah, that's really fascinating.

Scott Benner 27:42
So my last question around that stuff that I'm going to talk about how you figured out you had diabetes, but are there other people in your family lines that have type one?

Sterling 27:51
No, no, but not a single person? Okay. Oh,

Scott Benner 27:55
all right. Well, then, how did you figure out you had type one?

Sterling 27:58
So I figured I had type one, because I was I mean, I always tell people, I was like, I was going blind. Oh, you're going blurry. I

Scott Benner 28:06
that will make you Yeah, after right?

Sterling 28:09
That's, that's right. That's right. I was I was going to the bathroom a lot. I unfortunately, like, you know, I've also had a very terrible friendship life growing up as well. And it was, my friend actually kicked me out of her house a week before school was about to start. And it was super rainy season. And I, we found a place finally, and I was so happy. And I was like really happy. I was losing weight. Because I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm losing weight. I don't know how maybe it's because of depression. That will do it. And I was like, I'm losing weight and all of this. And I started going to the bathroom more like I couldn't keep it on my food. And I was driving. And I was actually like, blurry eyed driving, which really scared me. Luckily, my sister was there, I believe, and she had to drive us home. But finally that night, it was kind of sucky because the cars were not working. Both her cars like had broken down for some reason, and it was pouring down rain and I had to get to the ER and I was like, what is happening? And we had to kind of push the cars to get them to go to get one of the cars to go and we finally go to the ER and of course, you know, everyone that was there was like your blood sugars are high, but we can't help you because we're closing soon. So are like the it's just the er It's the what do you not the emergency room the place you go to before

Scott Benner 29:33
that? Of like, like urgent care or something like that?

Sterling 29:37
Urgent Care? Yes. Urgent Care. So we went to urgent care and the people that were there were like your blood sugars are high. I think it was like 315 which is is not terrible.

Scott Benner 29:50
That's funny. Now you're like,

Sterling 29:51
you're like I've heard other people.

Scott Benner 29:55
Well, it's sort of you probably weren't in decay yet. Or did they say you were I

Sterling 29:59
was Ain't no I wasn't in DK. I mean, I don't think so I really started in Fallout or anything. No one's but the thing is, is when I went to er, all the people that were kind of treating me were like, you're way too skinny to be diabetic, like that was all the nurses. Yeah. So no one was actually giving me any information. They're just like, you're way too skinny to be diabetic. And even before then I like had an inkling, I didn't really know about diabetes, but I just looked at my mom, I'm really good intuitively. And I just looked at her. I said, I think I have diabetes. And she's like, What makes you think that? And I said, I don't know. Well, I don't know. I didn't look it up. But I'm like, I think I have diabetes. I don't know what that means. And then they told me I had diabetes. I'm always

Scott Benner 30:44
interested when people like make that leap. Because there's some information in your head from the past. You just don't know what it is. And you start putting things together. You don't even know why so many people play that it's a it's very interesting. So how long were you in the hospital for

Sterling 30:59
two days, I was in the hospital. And we were just kind of sitting like I was sitting there. I always say, if you can help not go into the hospital, don't go. If you can figure it out yourself, just don't go because you don't get any rest in the hospital. Like they have waking me up at all different hours. And like when you're diagnosed with diabetes, you have no idea what that means. Because especially as an adult, most people are not going to explain it to you. Yeah, and I'm sure you've heard that a lot from everyone. And it's just like, You need to eat this food and right now. And if you don't eat this food, you're gonna pass out and you're like, what does that even mean? You're like, we just gave you insulin. I'm like, but what does that mean? They're like, doesn't matter. You need to eat this food. Yeah, nobody's

Scott Benner 31:41
really. Nobody's explaining anything to you. Did you have family around you at that point? Or were you on your own at the hospital?

Sterling 31:47
So I have my mother with me, you know, with my family situation growing up, like, unfortunately, for the first four years of my diabetes, no one in my family, like, decided to learn about it. So I was all on my own. And it was really, really hard. I did have my ex as was basically my caretaker. He knows much more. My dad pretends to ignore it. He loves ignoring it. And he's never been to a single like hospital visit. My mom goes once in a while with me to do these things. But I'm mostly like, on my own with most of this stuff.

Scott Benner 32:26
What would you say your level of understanding was in the first year? Oh,

Sterling 32:31
you know, like, compared to what I've known since I've met you guys and met the people who directed me to you and your podcast? Probably like 10%. Wow. Because I went on keto, like six months after I became Insomniac because no one explained to me how to use insulin. Even no one told me that Oh, no one told me to Pre-Bolus to how many what's my ratios to sensitivity? I don't I didn't know what any of that was man. And

Scott Benner 32:59
so were you not sleeping because you were fighting with blood sugars because you were scared to sleep.

Sterling 33:05
I was really scared to sleep. So I had a low. So I took and I've heard this story once before with the person who went running and obviously a lot of adults are Ladas. But it's like I took insulin because I wasn't fearful at that point of insulin because I was like, Oh, it brings me down to a certain level. And I didn't know I was honeymooning for three and three years, you know. And I took some insulin and decided to walk up a hill in San Francisco. And all of a sudden, all the dogs in the park ran up to me, and were jumping on me. And I was like, What are you guys doing? Like what's happening? And then it hit me. I was doing my best to tell them what are some of the owners? I was like, Do you have food? Or do you have a house near here? Like I have nothing because I didn't know to hold anything around me. They didn't told me tell me that they didn't teach me any of that stuff. And like all these people thought I was crazy. And they're like, why are you guys why are you talking to me? And they weren't helping me. And then one lady was like, there's a food store down the street. I can't believe I made it to the food store. I was at 40 at that point

Scott Benner 34:05
and shopping. Did you have a basket? Or were you? Did you

Sterling 34:08
know I was sitting in a park on the top of the San Francisco Hill?

Scott Benner 34:12
She grabbed some food just yet why you really did last for a while. How long do you think that all took? Or do you not have a feeling for it? What do you mean? What would you say from when you started walking and found people to when you actually could eat? How long do you think it was?

Sterling 34:26
It was probably like it took me 15 minutes to walk up the hill. I sat down for about 10 And then all the dogs are jumping on me about that point. You know like they were they could figure it out before I did.

Scott Benner 34:42
They were diabetes service dogs in training apparently.

Sterling 34:44
That's That's right. That's right. They're all really confused. And I was like, I love you all. And that's why I'm at the dog park but I don't want you to jump on

Scott Benner 34:52
me also. None of those people at the dog park have ever seen a movie when a dog looks worried you have to be worried that wasn't something like a I don't know. Well, nobody understood. I mean, you didn't understand you had it you didn't understand. So it's hard to.

Sterling 35:06
Yeah, I mean, you know, like, I think it was that in San Francisco, there's a lot of mentally ill people, and you can look normal and be mentally ill. And it's a lot of schizophrenia. And so the way I was acting, I basically tell people now when my blood sugars are low, I'm a drunk person without the benefits. Yeah, so I usually tell people that now, but that's basically how I was acting, because all I knew to think was in my primal brain was like, I need food. Like, I need food. And so I just kept telling people, like, I need food. And I couldn't coherently explain that. And they didn't get it. And the only lady who kind of got it just pointed me in the direction of a store. And she's like, there's a store down there. So I had to walk to the store. I don't know how I did that on like a 40. Blood sugar.

Scott Benner 35:52
Yeah. You know, Sterling, I started writing a blog in like 2007. And about diabetes. And one of the things that got me to do that was a news story about a man who got off a commuter train, and passed out. And he No one knows exactly how long he was lying there. But then the morning commuters came in, and they were going past them, like he's lying, like facedown in like a stone driveway. And people are mocking him for being drunk. And it took one person who had a family member with type one to recognize the low blood sugar incident and probably save the guy's life. And I started writing a blog thinking, well, maybe I'll educate people. And one day if my daughter falls over, someone might have like, it's a weird thought. But like, someone might have read the blog and known or something like that. It was like literally one of the reasons that I started writing a blog. But that's exactly what happened to you. You look disjointed, because you're low and people can't tell the difference. And people are busy. And like you said, other people around there might give off a mentally ill vibe to begin with. So they're probably not looking to get too involved. And there you go. And just by luck, you've made it to that food. That's pretty pretty.

Sterling 37:05
I did I really don't know how. But that scared me. And I and no one still explained to me diabetes, and like, even my endo was telling me hormones don't affect your diabetes, and she was a woman.

Scott Benner 37:20
Well, she was wrong about that. Oh, yeah, she

Sterling 37:22
was I was like, This is not right. I know my body. Like, I feel like something is weird. Something's definitely off during different times in my month.

Scott Benner 37:29
Yeah, you're using more or less insulin, and you're not even you're not even doing anything purposefully. So so what I mean, obviously, all these experiences lead you out to try to find your own answer. So how do you find them for yourself? So

Sterling 37:42
I became an insomniac, and I couldn't sleep through the night and I was eating pizza, and I was eating all of this stuff. And then I have my opinion on this, and it has changed or accidentally, but I found the only people I found was the Bernstein diet people. And so I went full keto. For four years, I'm still keto. But that's that's kind of how I survived was like well to take, I need to take less insulin. So the way to take less insulin is to eat less carbs. And that's the only way I knew how to even manage my diabetes on the day to day. Yeah, and I didn't even realized my diabetes wasn't even in full swing or effect until I had reached out to you guys and had been a part of the like, been listening to the podcast. And I was like, wow, I didn't even know I wasn't even like fully diabetic until that year, until last year. And that was really hard for me to kind of have to take in. Because I thought I was like already dealing with things on hardmode. And then I was like, wow, I just got like re diagnosed mentally. And it really sent me into a spiral and depression. I think that was like throughout all the things that kind of happened through my whole life. For some reason, I always had like a glimmer of hope, even though I couldn't see there was no light and a darkness world that I lived in since from five to like 21 but for some reason diabetes got me and like, that was the first time I thought about suicide. Really. And yeah, and it just like I was like, I can't believe I can't, like do this because I didn't understand much about it. And I felt like I couldn't even go walking. I felt like I couldn't do anything, because I didn't understand it. And then I my whole world had changed. And then I started listening like, I think I didn't go outside of my home for like two weeks. I like didn't take any figure modeling jobs. I didn't take any any type of commercial jobs like and I just sat there and I was just listening for hours to your podcast with you and Jenny, because I just I realized I didn't understand anything and and it was really overwhelming, honestly, to take in all that information, but I just decided to take as much as I could because, you know my dad had raised us to ask questions why? And so I was like, I gotta ask questions why? I know well, because I realized that my doctors weren't telling me or providing me with the information I needed. Yeah,

Scott Benner 40:05
I mean, good for you because you got desperate. And you started to panic a little bit. I mean, if you're starting to think about hurting yourself, then you're you're you're running out of ideas in your head about what to do. And diving into something like that, like you said, couldn't have been easy. And you did it. So that's really like, like weight of, like, take control for yourself. That's amazing. Also, you named the episode a couple of minutes ago, named the episode you named your episode a couple of minutes ago. Oh, what is my episode name? Well, it's got to be an after dark because of the story you told about growing up. But it's going to be it's gonna be called Hard Mode. I love it. Yeah. Well, because I love that whole life seems to be in hard mode. I'm hoping we're getting you to like, easy at some point. Let's see, as we keep talking,

Sterling 40:46
I know. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I mean, definitely we can I mean, we can go into my art and stuff, because that's what saved me.

Scott Benner 40:53
Yeah, no, I want to hear about it. I really do. But so you, you kind of absorbed the the management episodes of the podcast, and you got an idea of what you were doing. I also want to point out that you just told a story that exactly mimics my expectation of why people would die with type one who have adopted a very low carb lifestyle, why they're so protective of it, and, and why they almost proselytize about it. Like, like that whole story, you just told like, I'm not gonna go back over it again. But being desperate, not knowing what you're doing, having scary health issues. And then recognizing if I really take in almost no carbs, I will use a very little bit of insulin, and it will minimize those other issues. Like if you don't know how to use insulin, that is the only answer you can get to. Like, as that's your story. And so I've always maintained that I think that's how it happens. Because listen, I don't honestly, I hope people understand by now I've been doing this podcast for a long time, I don't really care how people eat, I don't care how you live it all to be perfectly honest. But the thing that I'm always interested in is when somebody who's newer diagnosed is in that position you are in, they're like, I don't know what to do. And my blood sugars are spiking, and they're getting low. And then a person who has found keto or very low carb or something like that, they come in, like, you have to do it like this. Like, they talk about it. Like it is life itself. And they're so protective of the idea. And, and that's why because it saved their life. They were Yeah, right. And that's why it becomes such an important thing. And and it feels like you really need to tell other people about it. But then you but you got more information at but you stayed low carb, so you like the lifestyle, but you're better at using your insulin now.

Sterling 42:45
So I so actually, before I even found your guys's podcast, I was reaching out to the Bernstein's groups and not saying a nice things, just saying factual things. No one helps me, no one came to my rescue. Sorry. And it was really tough to kind of bear that too. Because I was like, I thought you guys wanted to help people keep low blood sugars and all this stuff. I mean, there's a lot of propaganda where if your blood sugars aren't perfectly at 80 all the time, they look down on you. And that was really tough for me for a long time. Because that was all I knew was that group and me I didn't really know any other diabetics, someone finally like a light shine. She was a nurse and she was like, check out you know, you should check out these groups. I am staying the reason why I've stayed keto. I don't really want to be keto. But I've had so much PTSD with all of this stuff, that it's just a fear based thing at this point. I do want to be a little more freer with my carbs and like what I want to eat like I want to eat pork. Who says and I do want to eat pizza again. It's just understanding what I didn't understand it's going to take maybe a few years or two kind of free to gamble is like, yeah, because right now I'm actually on so I got on looping because my PDM stopped working. So I'm looping now.

Scott Benner 44:06
That's the that's the most interesting pathway to that you're like, Oh, my PDM doesn't work. I'll just start looping. Yeah,

Sterling 44:13
actually in my neighborhood, or in my, in my city in San Jose, there is a woman who works at tide pool. She I had talked to her last year to several times and then my PDM wasn't working at 12 o'clock at night. And my pump was about to go out. And I was already stressed out about being on a pump. It was like three days into being on a POM four days in. And I was like Well, great. This is the perfect scenario. And then she contacted me and they were telling me that they couldn't even send my PDM until July 5 Because it was July 4 Oh the holiday and I was like I had to wait two days Okay, and not guaranteed. So you mean I just contacted I was like can you put me on loop because I just the PDM just like broke.

Scott Benner 44:58
Can you do me a favor? Can you tell me her First name, I'll bleep it out because I feel like I know her and that she's been on the podcast. It's but she doesn't know you guys. Okay, then that's not the person I was thinking of. Okay. All right,

Sterling 45:09
I was one I really want her to like, listen to you guys, because she doesn't actually know you guys. She relies solely on on looping. She does the Bolus with her daughter. But it's really interesting because her daughter is on the opposite spectrum. She her daughter's eating 300 carbs a day. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:24
I know. That's, listen,

Sterling 45:26
it's nice to see,

Scott Benner 45:27
your story is like you're first of all, you're very good at telling your story. And it's terrific. And I am having. So somebody's gonna send me an email. It says that this is creepy. But I really want to tell you how I feel like it's, I know this is crazy. But I you know, I'm getting ready to talk to you. I've like your Instagrams up in front of me and like stuff like that. And you are, I don't know. You don't look the way you feel about yourself. And you don't look like you're struggling. And it's so disjointed to hear your story then look at your picture because it doesn't feel like you're talking about the person I'm looking at. I was one I was wondering if that ever felt that way to you?

Sterling 46:13
Yeah, my dad raised us so you know, most people would never guess and every time I tell them like I do probably have ASD and ADHD they would never guess it because we kind of growing up we were ingrained into being poised. Yes. To dress how you look, you know, dress how you want to be approached, you're always being interviewed. I don't care if it's a janitor, I don't care if it's someone just cleaning the street and I don't care if it's a homeless man, you're always being interviewed Sterling. So you need to act that way. So that's, that's how I am so like, it's not noticeable.

Scott Benner 46:45
But even in your speaking like, not just visually, but like you talking to like nothing. All the words don't seem to match your you don't I mean, like your your your your life is a dumpster fire. But you don't you don't come off that way while you're talking. And you don't come off that way. When I'm looking at you. I'm trying to figure out why that is. And so that's the answer you were raised to, to present yourself in a certain way. That's correct.

Sterling 47:11
And also on top of that, I've always had a vision to change the world when I got diagnosed with diabetes that solidified it and made me less fearful. So I started writing poetry. I started going up and doing stand up like an open mics and became a little famous in that world. That's when I started doing modeling, sort of going to art directing and commanding people no one would ever expect. I'm actually an introvert. They always look at me, they're like, You're not an introvert. I'm like, Yes, I am. I just learned how to talk. And so that's kind of like, the direction. And so when people read and if you ever look at my art page, I have a ton of poems, and they're extremely depressing. I don't think I write anything, even when I'm in love. I write sad. And it's always either that or contemplative, because it's me processing my emotions. And people were surprised when that first started happening. When I first start expressing myself, they were like, Please don't hurt yourself. And like, at this point, I was like, No, I'm not even, you know, I'm not thinking about that. I'm just thinking about how can I express my emotions, because I never got to when I was younger? And how can other people, you know, step in their own light and be able to do that for themselves. I've gotten several emails and several DMS and all this, like, thank you so much for writing that it was really dark, but I really appreciate your art and you're helping me start to write again, or you're helping me reevaluate my life or I didn't know you were going through this. And sometimes like people don't know, I'm what I'm going through. And, and that's really important to me to like, be able to hold people when I'm talking to them.

Scott Benner 48:45
Now, I'm, I'm enjoying talking to you a lot. And it's just very impressive. You're young, and you've been through a lot. It seems like most of it you went through by yourself at one point or another. And I don't know you just your the way you're coming off is it's almost confusing, because I'm not sure why you're doing okay. But at the same time, it's very impressive. So you you think that expressing yourself through different artistic endeavors was very valuable for you emotionally? Yeah,

Sterling 49:18
it saved me. It saved me. Like when I got diagnosed, and I was sitting there in the hospitals, I quit golf, because I thought to myself, I'm like, I can't sit in a hospital bed, not ever having cried out of joy for something. Like when I was winning and golf, and people would interview me, I'd be like, yeah, it's whatever. It's whatever. And I was like sitting there and I was thinking I'm like, my life can't just be whatever. It's you know, it can't be whatever

Scott Benner 49:43
you go and success is expected. You can't be happy about it. Because that was that was the goal.

Sterling 49:48
Yes, yes. And and I love golf, too. But when I got into art, I really found myself and you know, initially when people first I started doing art or people would call me cringy to, like, you're not gonna make it to that's silly. You know, all of these fears people like to put on, but I never really listened. Because the thing is when you grow from a dark, dark space, there's nothing worse than where you were before. So everything that happens to me now every emotion or every heartbreak or whatever situation, yes, it's hard, but it's not the hardest thing I've been through diabetes isn't the worst thing I've been through. Yeah, you know, so So I take that really seriously. And like, you know, when people were like, Oh, well, art can be a second choice. And like, no arts are first choice. And yes, I'm slowly finally starting to get into manifesting into like, getting more finances from it and other things like that. But it's a journey. I mean, when you're building a house, it's not going to take a day. Yeah, you know, you know, it's

Scott Benner 50:51
funny, because you use younger words than I would use, which makes sense. Makes sense, because you're younger than me. But I was just telling my son recently, I'm like, you can just do something and make it happen. And that probably sounds like hocus pocus to people. But I made this podcast out of sheer nothingness, and a lot of effort and a lot of time, and I hit a lot of speed bumps where I didn't know what I was doing. Or people told me it wasn't going to work the way I wanted to do it. Like all of that stuff. And I just kept focused and kept working on it. And and that's right, yeah, you do it. And then it is. And I don't know, like, I don't know a better way to say that, like, you can conjure something up out of nothing. And, and make it real. So you

Sterling 51:39
can literally do anything you wish you want to do in this world. I tell people this every day, I'm like, you can do whatever, there was a woman I think I don't remember what state she was in. But an older woman, she was like 70, she would actually get paid a ton of money to pee in jars so that people could pass their drug test.

Scott Benner 51:56
Early, that is not where I thought you were going with that. But is that what she wanted to do?

Sterling 52:03
No, but I'm just saying you can do anything that's the world has provided and you know, you can make whatever type of income you want. Some people don't want to, and that's okay. And some people don't want to get there, they just want to be doing the thing. So it's when people limit themselves because of what society has told you, you have to realize you're not the majority, you are the minority, you're you yourself. And you know, just just your being like, you're just you. And so you really have to understand, like you're very different from that next person. And that next person's life. When if you understand that you're able to do whatever you choose to do.

Scott Benner 52:40
You mean, you need some sort of support around you, right? Like, you can't just decide I'm gonna get up this morning and work very hard on something that doesn't make money because I still have to stay alive and eat and everything. Like I had support. My wife was supporting me while I was building the podcast, obviously. But

Sterling 52:56
yeah, of course. And the thing is, you know, I think support comes in more forms than a person. And more forms. Like for instance, like, for instance, my parents, my parents bought our Victorian home through a government funding, where they gave them a whole entire historical loan to build their house. And they didn't have any money, they my mom bought another home for $1, because it was in the newspaper, and they were gonna move it and they just wanted someone to live there in San Jose, this was back when San Jose was still being kind of, like downtown was still being kind of built on. And so I think it's more, it's less about like, thinking about, Oh, I need the support from this specific place at this exact moment. It's more about like, I'm very spiritual person, trusting the universe, and it is going to as long as you're doing what you need to do, whether that is doing your full time part time job to get by, but trusting that there's gonna be money coming from some other place, because money is material, just like anything in this world. And you know, a lot of wealthy people I'm sure, we'll talk about this is like, they already know they're gonna get money. So they're high risk takers, because they know that they're gonna get money, and therefore their brain isn't blocked by that financial, you know, stability need,

Scott Benner 54:16
I'm comforted by the idea that money comes in it goes, That's right, that it's transient through your life, and that, that the goal is not to make a giant pile of it. And exactly right. So, you know, because at the end, I mean, a lot of really wealthy people die and they're still dead. So

Sterling 54:34
that's right. That's right. The only thing you can't get back is time, right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:38
So I like to think as long as it's coming in, and it's going out it's I don't get mad when it goes out. I get upset. Like sometimes I get nervous, but like, you know, comes in I'm like, okay, great. We have some sort of a flow here, and, and put your mind on other things and you have to stay. I'll tell you that when the better the podcast does, there is always Is this, there's this kind of carrot on a stick that tries to lead me towards just relax and like, put it on autopilot. Like, like, like, just let it do what it does like you, you love making the recordings, make the recordings, you don't have to work so hard or you don't have to do and I and I always stop myself because if I if I go in that direction, I get bored very easily to begin with. And then I just find myself wandering around like I'm like, oh, like I should be working harder or thinking of a way to make the podcast better find a way to reach more people like I mean, your story's insane. Like, I mean, honestly, we're not talking about today, because it's not going in that direction. But you're in a significant mental health and physical health crisis that you're brought out of, in some part from a podcast, which is ridiculous, you don't immediately get it's actually silly. But if it works, then isn't it incumbent upon me to find other ways for it to help people. And so like I'm doing that, today, when I get off with you? I am. I've just paid for a service that will transcribe, I'm starting with the bulk beginning series, it'll transcribe the series, and then it attaches an AI bot to each transcript. And it's, it's amazingly accurate.

Sterling 56:16
So you can tell what is it doing? Is it doing like captions for you? Well, it

Scott Benner 56:20
does all that which is fine, because we can make content with it that will help people read who would prefer to read but more importantly, you can ask the bot any question about the episode and it very accurately answers it for you.

Sterling 56:32
I like that, right? I love future things. I'm here for everything.

Scott Benner 56:37
I I'm such a I'm so on board with this right upfront. Like I feel like there's a way where we could eventually have all the information from the podcast, behind the scenes transcribed and where you could just ask a little bot like, you know, in this episode, how could I learn to do this? Or what does it talk about Pre-Bolus singer or whatever, and then it could take you right to that information.

Sterling 57:00
I love god I'm so on board for for that. And I think that's going to be really helpful. I know there's a lot of people in the art world or, you know, that have issues with AI situ and stuff. But for me, I'm like, it's just another tool. Just use it as another tool. If if really someone or an AI is you're feeling like it's going to affect you and your future, then you're not really putting as much energy into yourself and understanding that you're valuable. Like really genuinely do that. Because like with that AI it's gonna help people find I know I'm on your I'm on your guys's Facebook's quite often. And everyone's always asking what episode

Scott Benner 57:41
was the? Yeah, no. And I

Sterling 57:45
always ask him like, yeah, what episode is that?

Scott Benner 57:47
I'm up the butt of the company who made the stuff? I was like, can you make the bots embeddable into social media? Like, you know, could there be a Facebook post that said, hey, ask this bot, anything you want about this episode? And it'll launch I'm I'm very, very hopeful that it's going to work. And by the way, if it doesn't work, I'll pivot. Like, I won't try. Yeah, I won't go down with the ship. If it doesn't work. I'll be like, alright, I tried that. That didn't work out the way I expected. And let's try something else now. But at least I'm not bored and sitting around and just staring. Just letting this thing run. Like I want to keep propelling it

Sterling 58:25
forward. Yeah. And that's a perfect word for anybody. You know, who, who has a sense of like, business ship or making something new is the pivot word. I love that word. Yeah. Oh, yes. It's not working. Just pivot. Why stay there? I tell reason to be there.

Scott Benner 58:43
Ya know, I tell people all the time, like, one of the reasons that the podcast is, is popular is because when I see something not working, I can just, I can redirect myself. And I don't have to go ask six people in a meeting and they all don't have to agree and you don't end up in a situation where one of them their job was the thing you're trying to get away from. So they're like, no, no, no, we should stay with this. Like, you know, like, you lose all of those problems when you're streamlined. And anyway, how are you managing your before the looping? Did you ever do pins or needles or anything like that?

Sterling 59:18
I was MDI, I had my Nova log, but I never used it because I use regular insulin. So I was using syringes. And that was after two years, so I didn't actually have to use any type of I have to use Lantis. I use like two units of Lantis for the first year. I didn't use any type of insulin for food or the first year

Scott Benner 59:41
I had you on regular and Lantus. Yeah. Oh, wow. For two years.

Sterling 59:45
No, I was on regular Atlantis. Yeah. For like, yeah, for I guess the two years after that first year. That first year was kind of, it's kind of it's kind of easy levels.

Scott Benner 59:56
You did. You had a very slow onset. Super

Sterling 1:00:00
slow onset. Yeah. And I think being keto really did slow it down quite a bit. wasn't necessarily a positive or negative. It just made me a little more confused. I was like, Why do I need to take insulin now for food? That doesn't make sense? Yeah. But I took Yeah, I took regular and took Lantis. And then I also started taking Novolog for corrections because that for our fat rise, the regular insulin doesn't actually catch. So I was taking three different types of insulin and it was not fun, right?

Scott Benner 1:00:30
But now you're just Nova log in your pump. That's

Sterling 1:00:33
right. I'm just Nova log in my pump. I've been on my pump for about a month now. Wow. I love it. I suggest people

Scott Benner 1:00:41
scrolling. We were telling the Fourth of July story that was three weeks ago. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay.

Sterling 1:00:50
I had to pivot. I was like, okay, looping wasn't gonna go on loop. I was gonna figure out what the pump was. I like figuring things out. I like seeing what's going on. And if I could figure it out myself, and then go on to assisted thing. But the universe said, No, I don't think so. This is going too slow for me. So

Scott Benner 1:01:09
we're gonna do this instead? Well, that's fast. Yeah, using the G six.

Sterling 1:01:13
I've been using a G six right now. I was contemplating going on to g7. But I'm like, I don't know, people. People were like, yes. And then people are like no about it. And people are like, it's whatever. So I'm not really sure throwing

Scott Benner 1:01:27
the information. Just remember, people don't come to the internet to share how well things are going. You know, I

Sterling 1:01:33
said that all the time. That's what happened. That's why I started that's why I haven't gotten a pump until like, last two months ago, because or like a month and a half ago, because I was just reading people's dumb stories, which I shouldn't.

Scott Benner 1:01:48
What you're doing is you're recommended. People are having trouble, they get lost. They don't know what else to do. They go and kind of word vomit on the internet. And then you think oh, that's how it is artists been using g7 since it came out. It's fantastic. So okay, yeah, sure. Then I'm

Sterling 1:02:02
gonna I just wanted something simpler, too. And I don't really want to tour away even though I'm keto, like if I decide to go off of it. I just don't like the mystery. Yeah, I mean, I don't like the mystery. Obviously. g7

Scott Benner 1:02:13
works fine with looping. So it's pretty wicked. Yeah, I just did the Arden did excuse me, the whole, like, put on her new g7. But didn't turn it on, let it soak in for a couple of hours before she put it on. Like that was happening during like the window. Because there's like a buffer at the end of the old sensor. There's a lot of cool stuff about the g7. So it's worth looking into. And listen, I'm not going to tell you. Like, I don't know how it's gonna work for you. You don't I mean, like, I don't know how any of this is gonna work for anybody. But our experience has been good. So yeah,

Sterling 1:02:47
and I really appreciate hearing your stories. I'm sure everyone says that. But honestly, like, you guys take chances anyway. And I like that. And you just like, you know, pivot if something goes wrong, there's a way to get out of there, you know, out of it. And obviously g7 is not like that crazy, but it's just the mindset. That was around things that

Scott Benner 1:03:08
was interesting for me, I want to adopt. I'm sorry, that was interesting for me to hear you say because I don't think of myself as a risk taker. But I guess in this space, I, I

Sterling 1:03:19
feel like you're a calculated risk taker. I feel like you kind of see your options. And they're like, Yeah, I'll be fine. Oh, yeah. Or this is the out, you know, which I am not, I'm very impulsive. But I am not at all calculated risk. I'd be like, Oh, I have to wait like six months before I decide.

Scott Benner 1:03:39
I do not do I don't do things without thinking them through extensively, but not compulsively. I just, I make sure that I have a i My wife tells me that my brain works backwards from now. So any question you asked me, my first thought is no. And then I talked myself out of the answer with with like data, and then if I can get to a point where I'm comfortable, then I'll move forward. My kids do that too. It makes our air makes Kelly crazy. Because Because she you know if you said let's go on vacation, I go no, we can't do that. Then Then like five minutes later, I'd be like, well, we probably could and then the I could get the time off and can we afford it? And then like and I work so I work backwards from no is what she says she would prefer five work forward from Yes. But I think that's how we end up with boxes that I don't know what they're for. And then I can't find them five days later. And it seems like we're buying stuff we don't need. That's That's me.

Sterling 1:04:33
I'm very I'm like I'm an INFP I don't know if you know the personality traits, but I'm like very whimsical. So I'm always let me tell you my dream. And we can go from there.

Scott Benner 1:04:43
I have all those thoughts. I just thought myself right at the end. I'm like, No, not yet. Not until I figured out how this is gonna work. I've had that feeling for years. Like since I was a kid. Like I wanted to do something big, but I didn't want to waste my time is how I thought of it. There's that if that makes sense. And I watched my son make a decision like that coming out of college too. And I was like, Oh, wow, he did the same thing. He was very willing to put a ton of effort into something but the minute he couldn't see the path to the end of it, he was like, I'm not doing this anymore. And, and he made any pivoted and made a good decision. So anyway, so yeah, what have we not talked about that we should have?

Sterling 1:05:21
I mean, I can quickly go over my art. I don't know if you saw my page, but I can

Scott Benner 1:05:28
quickly go over sterling. Hold on a second. I don't you get I like you. We're fine. We're doing good. Okay, okay. You fill time very nicely. I don't have to I know I'm not pressured to speak here. So alright, so where am I going to find this that so

Sterling 1:05:42
Sondra dot people is my artists page for on Instagram. I have it here on Instagram. Okay, that's right. So

Scott Benner 1:05:50
the this is, is this You photographing yourself? Or what am I seeing here? So

Sterling 1:05:56
when I first got started, I was actually I was having. So when I first got started, I'm actually going backwards. I used to have so I have a team, I have a makeup artist, I have a hairstylist, I have an assistant. And I had me when I first got started, I was just taking photos of me it was COVID, too. And that was kind of the reason why and I was having random photographers take photos of me. And then all of a sudden, these photographers I was spending around $500. On a shoot, I use a lot of flowers. I have a lot of florists that I work with. And I put around like 20 hours a time into each production. And so photographers when I first started doing my art stuff, they were kind of saying, yeah, so all of this art is my art. It's all mine. And you should be grateful that I'm taking photos of you. And then I was like, Okay, let's not do that. And then I went into and you can see a little below, there's like other people, these are all my photos. So these are the ones I actually point and click the camera, I come up with the art direction all of that I take it's about 30 minutes per photo to edit. So I use Photoshop and Lightroom. Presently now I'm going back to just being myself in it and maybe collecting like three other models and just really working on a really short, small team. And luckily now I do have photographer now who's a part of my team who's like, no Sterling, this is your art. I'm pointing clicking the camera today, I'm only here for two hours. And you've been going through all of this iteration for the last two weeks. And so I kind of like got into going more into like, what I look like in my world and in my point of view,

Scott Benner 1:07:42
so you kind of act and you're acting as an art director, sometimes you're using the camera, other times you're bringing in a person to operate the camera and to take a picture of your vision. Is that about right? Yeah,

Sterling 1:07:53
that's right. Yeah. So I come up with all this. Like I come up with a set designs, I come up with all the like I have over you don't I don't think you use Pinterest. But anybody who listens to this, I've have like 11,000 pins, which is a lot. Sounds

Scott Benner 1:08:08
like you've been busy. We're not busy.

Sterling 1:08:13
I've have like over like 100 different types of art directing boards to like 200 Maybe are directing boards. A lot of them have not even been used yet. But it's like my specialty. I learned how to sew even. I'm making this gigantic kimono right now. Because I'm pivoting to being more like just more artsy, I guess, like you're talking about how to make money and all that stuff. And I was kind of going down that right? Like, how do I make money, I started doing prints. I was performing poetry. And I was like, Yes, I can make money here and there with that, but it wasn't making me happy. And so right now I'm just focused on like, just creating, which is funny because like a lot of brands, even the brand I work for the laundry company gives me a ton of free stuff now, because I'm just being free about it more so. No one's deterred by my poetry so far. I'm surprised. Well, it's

Scott Benner 1:09:02
wonderful. Like you're you're really obviously very talented in a number of different ways. i You just said you were sewing Arden is has taken over our our, like our house. She's home from college right now and she's in a fashion design major at school. And she's like, I'm gonna make a dress this week. I'm like, okay, so she's like, I'm gonna need fabric and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Okay, so I'm like, out of the store with her. We're buying fabric together. And she's like, I'm gonna, this is the dress I'm gonna make but here's what I'm gonna do with the design. And she's like, I'm gonna put this swoop through it. And it's gonna feel like a Coke can. And I'm like, what she goes, Don't worry. It's not explaining it right. So then she sits down and sketches it all out. And I was like, Oh, wow, that's wonderful. And I was like, Yeah, I was like, what is that around the collar? And she goes, I think I'm gonna put like, soda can tabs there. I was like, okay, and meanwhile, aren't just even drink soda. They don't even know where it came from. She just saw something about that and said I'm gonna change this and make it kind of modern but make it pretty at the same time. I was like, oh, okay, I was like, Alright, go ahead, do it. And yeah,

Sterling 1:10:08
we'll definitely start noticing when she gets into it. Um, the amount of fabrics that we buy is a lot. Ya know, I know she's something that's a patience game, because it's like, why do you need this? And you're like, No, no, I just need this. Like, I just need this this thing. That's

Scott Benner 1:10:23
exactly what she's like. She's like, I'm just gonna get a couple of yards this because I like it. I think there'll be a place for it later.

Sterling 1:10:28
Yes, yeah. And it will not stop. I promise.

Scott Benner 1:10:31
I'll tell you the one thing that I don't this is not a job. But to watch art and go to a thrift store and put outfits together is fascinating. Like she just drifts through that place. Like it's like, like she's meant to do it, and grabs these things that no person would think, like, no reasonable person would go, these two things will end up in an outfit together. And she puts stuff together. And when she's done, you go, Oh, my God. That's, that's crazy. She's she's one of those people, she tells me that when she's at school, and somebody stops her every day, to tell them, I love your outfit. I love what you did with this. I love it. She's just like, I don't know, aesthetically, she's got like a great eye. So we're just trying to support that, like and with, without, you know, without saying it needs to lead to something. And that's one of the things that I've been, I'll tell you as a parent, I'm proud of that. We at least got ourselves into a position where we didn't have to say to our kids, alright, you're 18. Like, go do a thing. And it better make money. Because this is it. You know what I mean? Like, pick one thing be 100%. We're like, you know, we told our son when he went to college, we're like, just do whatever it is you're most naturally inclined towards. And then you can figure out how to make a living with it later. And with Arden when Arden said her two inclinations led her in one of two directions. She said, I think I could either be a very good lawyer, or I want to design clothing. But when she started talking about clothing design, in high school, she was not an artistic person, I would not have thought of it that way. She didn't spend much time drawing or sketching or anything like that. So in her first semester in school, she just sat at a desk and taught herself to draw. Like it was really, I wasn't very impressed by I don't I've told her but I don't know that she knows how impressive it is like she sat down and gave herself a skill she did not have previously. It was really something. So anyway, I love that you're doing all this terrific.

Sterling 1:12:36
Yeah, well, is she getting some manifesting power, if you want to hear I am right now real quickly, and how crazy my life has been. So basically, last year, I was really hurting financially. And I was figuring things out. I found figure modeling, which figure modeling is for most people don't know, I'm nude or portrait in front of artists, and they're studying anatomy, or they're doing oil paintings or whatnot. So I got into this, and people were like, that's like, that's the weirdest thing to get into. And what ended up happening was, is that I became, I just was like, you know, it's whatever. And I became like, I was like, I'm just going to be the best at it. Every time I go into something, I'm like, I'm going to be the best at it. You know? And all of a sudden, I just kept getting word of mouth. They're like, how do you keep getting these jobs? And I'm like, people just DM me. At this point. People just DM me. And they're like, I need you here. Can you come here this day? And I'm like, Yeah, I can be there. I can be here. And so I've been doing that for a year. And everyone was like, How long have you been doing this? And it was like about six months in like six months. And we're like, we're you're literally the best model we've ever had. Oh, cool. I'm like, Thank you. Thank you for

Scott Benner 1:13:47
you. And it's supporting, supporting your other stuff that you're doing. That's right. Yeah. So

Sterling 1:13:52
and I was like, thank you. And so that was about a year and a half ago now. And so finger modeling does take a toll on the body, you have to sit there in silence. And you'd have to put yourself in positions for a long time. Like I hurt my foot. This was kind of I'm kind of dwindling out of that because I actually am working for a laundry company. I want I walked in. So what happened was is like I was doing my finger modeling, but I wanted to get started doing art direct, and I'm like, I want to do art directing. I want to make art. And so I started following a lot of lingerie brands. And I went into I was like, Oh, this lingerie brand is in San Francisco. And so I went into the store and I was like talking to the lady and I was like I'm an art director. Like I'll do stuff for free for you. She's like, No, no, no, no, I don't want you to do anything for free for me, but I also don't need to art direct. I just want a model for me. And so I got into this whirlwind with this woman who, who is who was like one of the top 20 executives at Levi's Well, she she decided to quit she had a dream of building a luxury company and for her retirement. And so I like got into this world with this with this lady and I started doing commercial modeling for her. And then she's just like Sterling, I just love you so much like, we're gonna still do the modeling. But I want you to work for me. And basically, I'm getting $800 for 1515 hours of work each week. And its salary base. So if I can't do a day or anything, I still get paid. And she's letting me use her apartment, she gives me bags of clothes. And she's like, very into my poetry very into my art and wants to support me. So anybody who's like going towards anything, if anything is possible.

Scott Benner 1:15:42
And it comes in the craziest form, I was gonna say, you never know where it's going to work out.

Sterling 1:15:46
You never know where exactly, and it's really helping me because so taking away from figure modeling, now I can start focusing on sewing and making clothing and doing more production stuff and having more money to like, be able to support myself more independently, and you know, have all the benefits of things and still having a ton of time leftover to do what I want to Yeah, wow.

Scott Benner 1:16:10
It's great. Yeah,

Sterling 1:16:11
so that's where I'm at right now. I'm on an upward spiral. I'm on an upward bend from all the stuff before, but it's just about believing in yourself and really trusting that as you continue to work, just continue to work each day and like, you're gonna get somewhere. So with, even with art, and like, it's so cool to see that she's just drawing things on her own. She's like, I'm gonna do this. And you're like, I don't get that. But okay. It turns out to be interesting. My dad does kind of similar now. He's like, I don't see where you're coming from? Why do you need to use my bathroom? Again? I'm like, no, no, like, see, just just believe. And he's like, I really don't, but okay. And then he sees it. He's like, Oh, my gosh, these are all the ideas I can give to you and everything. And so just pursuing forward is amazing. And you providing art in that space to move forward? And I hope other people do. You just have to really trust its theory, because it's like, oh, my gosh, I really want to control whether it's our lives or somebody else's. But it's like, sometimes you just gotta trust the vibe. And as long as they're, they're moving forward in some form and direction, like, it's gonna work out in whatever way they choose to. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:17:15
it's very, it's very important not to have a preconceived notion of what things are supposed to be. That's right. It's kind of how I feel about it.

Sterling 1:17:22
That's right. And it's so much more fun that way to

Scott Benner 1:17:25
Sterling. Well, I've, I've made a small adjustment to my note about the title. Now I'm thinking after dark, Hard Mode made it because I like hard. I think maybe you came up hard. And I think it's turning you into who you are. So very, very impressive. And I really enjoyed the conversation. I appreciate you doing this with me.

Sterling 1:17:52
Thank you so much for talking with me. I really enjoy talking as much as an introvert I am.

Scott Benner 1:17:57
Listen, you were terrific. I have you never done this before.

Sterling 1:18:01
No, but I did go to school for multimedia technologies. So I had to do quite a few like interviews for school or else I'd fail.

Scott Benner 1:18:08
You're absolutely terrific at this. Tell people one more time your Instagram handle. So

Sterling 1:18:13
my Instagram is sonder dot people. It's so n d e r dot p o p l e and my name is Sterling Hawkins. And thank you for talking with me. Oh, thank

Scott Benner 1:18:27
you so much. I really appreciate you sharing all this with me. Can you hold on one sec? Yeah,

Sterling 1:18:30
yes again.

Scott Benner 1:18:36
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#1153 Dia-Dyad

Riva has lupus and one of her children has type 1 diabetes. Her husband Adam joins us.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1153 of the Juicebox Podcast.

I'm speaking today with a married couple Raya and Adam, they have three children. One of them has type one diabetes rival also has lupus, and possibly a thyroid issue. Her mother had hypothyroidism, their child was diagnosed very early, so we're going to be talking about everything from breastfeeding to what they're doing now. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you'd like to help with type one diabetes research and you're a US resident, please listen up. The T one D exchange is looking for you. That's caregivers of type ones, as well as type ones themselves. All they want you to do is take a short 10 minute survey. And that's it you'll be helping with type one diabetes research, T one D exchange.org/juice. Box head over there. Now you'll be done before you know it. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since the ever since CGM is more convenient requiring only one sensor every six months. It offers more flexibility with its easy on Easy Off smart transmitter and allows you to take a break when needed ever since cgm.com/juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that. Check them out at touched by type one.org.

Riva 2:15
My name is Raya. I am a full time mother to three kids under the age of nine. The oldest is neurodivergent. Our middle is starting kindergarten. And our baby is two and he is our type one.

Scott Benner 2:36
So you're tired. It's a lot. Yeah, no kidding. Give me your oldest stage eight, eight. Kindergartens, what five.

Riva 2:47
She's nearly six. Happy birthday. And two.

Scott Benner 2:51
Okay, who else is here with us?

Adam 2:54
And I'm Adam, I'm Ravis husband, I'm the dad to all these three kids, and also lacking in sleep. I have a background in biomedical engineering. So I've really gone deep on a lot of details on the biology and the math. So that's kind of my role in this.

Scott Benner 3:19
How are we going to refer to your kids just we're keeping their names out of it, or

Riva 3:23
I'm really torn.

Scott Benner 3:27
Well, for now, why don't we just say, type one, kindergarten and neurodivergent how's that sound? Sure. All right. Well, and if you get more comfortable, we can do whatever you want. So private fair to say this is all Adams fault, right? Like you weren't after him. He came towards you does blame it on me.

Riva 3:48
Thank you. Thank you.

Scott Benner 3:49
Every time I look at my wife, and she's uncomfortable, I think Oh, I did that to her.

Riva 3:55
Thank you know how things work.

Scott Benner 3:57
I saw her she looked attractive. I started talking to her and now look what happened. Oh my gosh. All right. The either of you have any autoimmune issues. And you know what I've decided when I asked questions in there for both of you, let's just go to reiver first, so you don't have to wonder who's going to talk? Perfect.

Riva 4:17
I have, I think a non diagnosis. I have had a couple of doctors float. The idea of something called incomplete lupus.

Scott Benner 4:35
What do they say that is?

Riva 4:36
It's lupus that can't be diagnosed with a blood test. But the symptoms match.

Scott Benner 4:45
What are your symptoms? I haven't

Riva 4:47
had a flare and a little while. So hair loss, frequent UTIs frequent upper right respiratory, very tired, anemic, itchy, like rashes. And it seemed to coincide with postpartum twice.

Scott Benner 5:12
Okay. How long did you have postpartum for?

Riva 5:15
And I'm actually saying postpartum not visa vie depression

Scott Benner 5:23
just the time after birth. Correct. Okay. Okay, so then it lasted for forever when did this come up in your life? How long have you been dealing with this?

Riva 5:37
Um, I guess I started first feeling like something was amiss about a year after our first was born

Scott Benner 5:50
about seven years ago and you don't have any other autoimmune stuff, celiac thyroid?

Riva 5:58
Again, thyroid has never been able to be confirmed. That blood that's been floated to me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:08
right. But let me let me jump in here for a second. So a lot of your symptoms are thyroid, like not that things don't overlap ever. But what do you mean, it's not comfortable? What's your TSH been when they've tested it?

Riva 6:19
It's been normal every time every year of my life.

Scott Benner 6:23
What's the number? I don't know the number offhand. So figure out the number because TSH is an is an interesting one. The range I think is, I don't know, four to 10. They'll call normal. But any good doctor will medicate TSH over two with thyroid symptoms. So you could have a TSH of five which would be crippling your hair would fall out. You'd be tired, you wouldn't be able to get rested. You might have skin irritations, all this stuff, and literally like Synthroid and like two weeks from now you'll feel better. And the reason I bring it up, not just because I've heard it from so many people, but because this exact thing happened to my wife. She had Arden her thyroid went bonkers. We took her to an endocrinologist. They heard all of her symptoms, tested her blood, came back and said, Well, it's not your thyroid. That lab is normal. But that was exactly the problem. So, Adam, you're good with bio or if you're good with computers, pull up somebody's blood tests while we're talking and we'll take a look. But if not, Robin No kidding. Get off the phone. Call the doctor. Find out what your last TSH was if it's over like two 2.1 Tell them you want to be medicated for your thyroid. I bet you feel better in a week. My

Riva 7:45
mom has thyroid. You're gonna start screaming at me.

Scott Benner 7:48
I mean, not screaming because we're you know, we're not married, so I'm not angry at you. It's so ruining my life. But do you think non married people are listening going? What are they talking about? Just fine people. Yeah. Okay. Where do you try right? So, what does your mom have?

Riva 8:09
Like? I don't know if she has hypo or hyper. I don't. She's on Synthroid. She's

Scott Benner 8:14
Oh, she's so she's got hypothyroidism. Did they ever call it Hashimotos this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. The ever since CGM is the only long term CGM with six months of real time glucose readings giving you more convenience, confidence and flexibility. And you didn't hear me wrong. I didn't say 14 days. I said six months. So if you're tired of changing your CGM sensor every week, you're tired of it falling off or the adhesive not lasting as long as it showed or the sensor failing before the time is up. If you're tired of all that, you really owe it to yourself to try the ever since CGM. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox, I'm here to tell you that if the hassle of changing your sensors multiple times a month is just more than you want to deal with. If you're tired of things falling off and not sticking or sticking too much or having to carry around a whole bunch of extra supplies in case something does fall off. Then taking a few minutes to check out ever since cgm.com/juice box might be the right thing for you. When you use my link. You're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful. Ever since cgm.com/juice. Box

Riva 9:45
No. And there was a great just like a breastfeeding gynecologist at Chapel Hill. Oh, okay. said Oh it says Hashimotos

Scott Benner 9:59
well It makes. I

Riva 10:01
was really excited about that. But it came back and she said, you're fine.

Scott Benner 10:07
Yeah. So breastfeeding gynecologist is going to be the name of my first sitcom that I write. I just decided everyone would tune in at least once. They'd be like, what's this about? Yeah, it was the way you said it a crack me up. But, but yeah, just get the number, or have it or have it retested or whatever I'm, Listen, I'm not a doctor, I'm an idiot. But I've talked to enough people. And I've seen it enough in my own family. Like, for instance, when my son got Hashimotos, he got his only symptom. Besides looking back, he was probably a little like, course, like his his, his temper was kind of like off like his personality. And but his hair was falling out, no one noticed because he had long hair. And he didn't notice because he thought that was just the thing that happened. He had low iron, at one point that we had to pump back up, which by the way, has never happened to him again. And rash was his big one. So if his body heated up, he would say that his skin felt itchy. Like, you know, the first couple days of summer, when you go outside, and your body's not used to the heat in the sun, and you get that flush feeling for a second. Like that would come over him. And then he'd break out in hives, waist to neck, and they would itch incredibly. And the only way he could make it stop was to like, go out like it was November when it happened. Luckily, he'd have to walk outside without his shirt on until his body, his core temperature came down, and then it would just go away. So I don't know. I don't want to get stuck on this. But let's just say if this is it, I'd like a Christmas card. That's all. But I'm not giving. I'm not giving you my address it just emailed to me. What else? Anything else? Oh, we got your mom with thyroid. Anybody else in the family? I

Riva 12:07
mean, Adam will chime in that his mom had ever thyroid removed. But there's nothing else. Like you know, we got the insert, type one in your family. There's one person. I think again, Adam can chime in, but his grandfather had what everyone believes is type two. We have been told by you know, few people floated the ideas, a great person at trial net actually. She said, You know, we didn't know. Back then. If maybe someone had type one and died before. You know, that was really discovered and may have been called Type Two diabetes

Scott Benner 12:50
still. Yeah, Adam, I like it when she tells me what you're going to say. And then says it. This is my favorite part so far. It's good for

Riva 12:58
him. Yeah, I'm

Adam 13:00
used to it. I just nod.

Scott Benner 13:03
Adams got a great story that I'll tell you now about his grandfather. Nothing bad. Nothing bad is gonna happen to say anything. You've done enough. Okay. Couldn't go after a different girl leave her alone. So the pandemic things were limited. How long have you guys been together?

Riva 13:28
almost 25 years? Oh, wow.

Scott Benner 13:29
You've been married for 25 years? Um, no, we

Riva 13:33
got married about I think 11 There's not an about there's an exact number but we don't need to 13

Adam 13:40
Oh,

Scott Benner 13:42
my God. Remember when I said my favorite thing was gonna be when rival told your stories. Now it's when she doesn't know how long you've been married. Or have you cloudy? You have like brain fog. Definitely, all the time.

Riva 13:54
I'm so tired. Like, Sawyer didn't era just set his name, but he didn't sleep like a normal baby. You know, he's getting diabetes. And now he has diabetes. So you know, I haven't been rested. For I don't know, three or four years. Three. On

Scott Benner 14:15
Saturday when you make Adam get up really early and let you sleep. And you sleep. And you sleep like 12 hours straight because you do right?

Riva 14:22
That's an eight on my on my mornings off. You

Scott Benner 14:26
wake up and feel rested? I feel better than I normally do. Okay? But rested like that. You even remember that feeling? Even

Riva 14:36
if I was physically rested? You know, there's a new mental load that has changed how I feel. Adam, do

Scott Benner 14:46
you notice it? Like I used to? I'll read you a little bit and you can tell me if you're on board. I stopped recognizing my wife's personality when she had a problem with her thyroid that nobody was dealing with. Not that Your spotlight couldn't just be lupus, but I she was just different. And no matter how many times I tried to explain it to her, she, she didn't know what I was talking about, like she just thought, you know, this is how I am. But she wasn't like, I remember her starting to take Synthroid and thinking like, wow, watch her personality came back and, and her temperament, all different kinds of things. But I was wondering if you've noticed anything like

Adam 15:23
that? I mean, it's it's been hard to disambiguate what's been the newly diagnosed type one diabetes load, and any kind of effect a thyroid disorder might have. Yeah. So I think we yeah, we both changed a lot since the diagnosis. Have I noticed the change? Yes, but not an unexpected one. And I'm sure I've changed too.

Scott Benner 15:53
So for everybody listening, not just due to, I would warn against the narrative. The Yeah, but this happened. So this is expected because this happened, like, at some point, you should try to start expecting better than that. And because I don't know if that makes sense or not, I don't know if I'm being does

Adam 16:16
we get started to experience it.

Scott Benner 16:20
Also, by the way, congratulations on being the first person to say disambiguate on the podcast ever. Wait, it was amazing. Alright, so we got your backgrounds, telling me a little bit about your son's diagnosis. What did you notice first?

Riva 16:39
I just explained this to diabetes startup yesterday, so it's fresh. So your was it seems like a very typical newborn. And we brag to everyone that he was our easiest, baby. But he was a newborn. So you go into that nadir. When we came out of the three to six month kind of newborn period. We expected things to naturally sort of start to get better, easier. And they didn't. They started to get worse. Sawyer stopped sleeping. He did not transition to solid food over time, from probably six months to a year started to cry. All the time. Change temperament, went from happy to needy sleep continued to deteriorate. We started to take them to pediatrician more for your checks. No, they would check to see oh, is he teething? All the usual things they may check for? Yeah. He's fine. He's fine. He's fine. Around 12 months, his weight started to drop. And the pediatrician said, Ah, you're still breastfeeding. You know, you got to get some nutrient dense foods into him. Maybe breastfeed a little less. Had I breastfed him less. He wouldn't have been getting any nutrients.

Scott Benner 18:19
Because he wasn't gonna eat anything else.

Riva 18:23
He would try to eat sometimes not much interest in food. And we love food. We're like, our kids love food. And we were not novice parents. Yeah, right. And Adam kept saying, I don't think he eats food. When he would eat vomiting. We found out he had food allergies, milk, soy, egg, sesame, and they continue to mount foods that he would try. He would vomit or get hives.

Scott Benner 19:05
Do you have any food allergies or either? I do have shellfish. Is it hard for you to talk about him? Like he's a problem? Does it make you like while you were describing it? It seemed difficult for you. I was wondering why

Riva 19:22
because I'm we're both still so let down by the people who were supposed to be helping us keep a baby safe. We still feel really frustrated by the lack of big checks at these equipments. Urgent Care saw him when when he went to the ER for breathing problems. So many people had eyes on him. Nobody poked his finger

Scott Benner 19:57
and that went on for like six months.

Riva 20:00
Yeah, yeah. Probably about from age, one ish. Or maybe just before one. It's around Christmas time. And he was diagnosed the following summer. So six to eight months,

Scott Benner 20:15
when he was diagnosed, what was his blood sugar? And what did they say they thought is a once he was 472.

Riva 20:21
And Adam might remember, in the high eights,

Adam 20:28
it was eat something I can't recall exactly

Scott Benner 20:32
how close to comedy think he was. I think Lowe's,

Adam 20:37
he, I had picked him up a few times in the night. And he when he was crying, or whimpering and he was live. And this was a symptom we described to a doctor and I, we thought it was TV. I think at the time, it was probably low blood sugar. Yeah. And we thought maybe, okay, he's teeth pain. And so we would give them you know, ibuprofen, which is kind of like, full of sugar, the kids version anyway. So I don't know if that got us out of any kind of, you know, traumatic medical emergency medical experiences. But that was part of the symptoms we described. And I think probably very close. Yeah.

Scott Benner 21:29
But it See, isn't that interesting? It's another example of, like, lolling yourself into acceptance. Like, I mean, honestly, if, if it hadn't happened so slowly, right? Because that's what gets you if it hadn't happened. So slowly, if you would have randomly walked into his bedroom one night picked him up, and he was limp, you would have just gone right to the ER. Right? Yeah. But because it happens. So slowly, we start to accept it. It's the wrong word. But you know, it becomes normal. And then it's the same brain function that lets us gain weight slowly. You know, I mean, it's the same thing or make bad decisions slowly. We just, we get a little used to we cross that line, and then we wait. And then we cross it again, you just keep doing that, before you know it, you can't see that we're the first line was anymore. And you feel like you're in a place you belong. And and then that frustration? Have you talked to anybody about that? Right? But like, it's been a while, it's been a little while now. Like, I don't want you to feel mad forever about this. Because this, this happens a lot. I know it sucks. But you're actually one of the lucky ones. Because you figured it out.

Riva 22:40
I mean, I will say I'm one of the more hyper vigilant humans you might ever meet. And I don't get lulled very much. But it took us we were trying to put pieces together. You know, and I also am very intuitive, and are my gut and even Adam Scott doesn't have any intuition. We kept saying to each other, you know, in passing, something's off. And things not adding up. And we're intelligent people were educated, we have great social networks. So it's not to say that we were not trying to put a puzzle together.

Scott Benner 23:29
No, no, I don't, I don't think you weren't. I just mean that. It's the you stop seeing things. I don't know, it feels like you can stop seeing things for what they are because they so slowly creep up on you. It's the um, what is the frog in the pot thing, right, you can throw a frog in a pot of boiling water, no, jump right out. But if you put it in a pot of cold water and warm it up slowly, it'll sit there and happily die like that, that. I'm just always not that that was happening to you, but it happens to people. And so I just I bring it up in these conversations. So that, you know, people might stop for a second step back except, you know, look at their lives and go, Oh, we are nowhere near where where I thought we were. But the thing you're talking about? Listen, I have that to constantly thinking about things. What is that what's happening? It's not a fun way to live. But when you have auto immune stuff in your life that's kind of unnecessary. And even that like, intersecting each other in the house or during the day and going Did you notice that this happened? What did you think of that? And then having like a four minute conversation, then continuing to move on? I've, I've lived through that moment, a few 1000 times. So I definitely know what you're talking about. I just mean, You sound angry that nobody gave him a finger stick. And I understand why and it's reasonable, but at some point, I mean, but I took garden to the doctor for weeks about things and they were like, Oh, it's this it's that it's the Hand Foot and Mouth is came back. That never happens. Like the doctor who's a friend of mine actually said, that never happens. That's weird. And then we just kept moving. I called him again, I was like, hey, you know, Arden just had a bowel movement. And I was able to with my fingers, crush it into dust. Oh, she's just dehydrated. Try this. But I mean, think of that explanation, like there were like pebbles, that if I squeezed both sides of the diaper just exploded into dust. Does that sound like just dehydration to you? Right. And so these things happen on and on and on. But in the end, no one's looking for this. And I've seen a number of years ago now. One organization was it beyond type one, one organization got it in their head that they were going to contact every pediatricians office in the country and give them literature about this. And they tried, and they got volunteers and it fell apart eventually, you would think it's such a simple thing. But it's credibly difficult to do, you know, to make the do that advocacy. So this is a great way to bring out that story. And hopefully people will share it and not go through what you went through. Because your son, you know, really could have had a very poor end, if somebody didn't figure it out. But they did. So now you're breastfeeding, a kid a baby with diabetes a year and a half old with diabetes. Is that right?

Riva 26:28
Yeah, he's two now. And I weaned him. I think in May.

Scott Benner 26:35
Okay, about four months. Yeah, yeah. So how long did you do breastfeeding with type one, four.

Riva 26:40
So he was diagnosed a couple days shy of 15 months. And he was March April. Like 26 months? I think when I read him.

Scott Benner 26:51
I was that was it hard to Bolus for? Was he? Amy, do

Riva 26:57
you need to chime in? Yeah, this this was pre agreed to?

Scott Benner 27:03
Adam, you're allowed to speak about this. And even though you have no intuition, I think you will be a reasonable person to talk on this subject.

Adam 27:11
Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence by both of you.

Riva 27:16
So

Adam 27:18
before diagnosis, or was feeding on demand. And that was the first thing we had to get our heads around to not do that anymore. So that was a tough transition, especially because, as Rob mentioned, he wasn't eating food yet. But once he started having insulin, he started eating everything. So that was a easier transition than we thought it might be. We talked a lot about transitioning him off of breastfeeding very quickly. But we decided that it would probably be really hard for him and Arriva to do that right away, especially after he's gone through this really traumatic week long hospital visit. So that was kind of the decision point to keep doing it. We revisited and since made around a lot. But Pre-Bolus thing became very key to maintaining any kind of breastfeeding regime. And so we were really glad we found the juicebox community and then that helped us with a lot of it.

Scott Benner 28:48
So the breastfeeding without a Pre-Bolus was shooting blood sugar to where

Adam 28:55
400 How quickly pretty quickly. The ask as I described arrive as we were trying to take an unknown are containing liquid or no quantity of it. And then unknown amount of carbs in the quantity. That's what we started with.

Scott Benner 29:21
We don't know what's in here. And exactly and did you always feel comfortable that he latched and and drank?

Adam 29:29
Oh yeah, he was he was a good you know, breastfeed her by that good little nursling he will always latched and Robin he were quite a you know dyad so the

Scott Benner 29:45
way we got around it. I gotta tell you, you're gonna use dyad on this podcast, you're gonna have to define it or you're gonna have trouble people are gonna be like a team.

Adam 29:57
A team just means two people on the team.

Riva 29:59
Do I just you know,

Scott Benner 30:03
I got people out there listening out go on there a dyad What the Hold on a second, they're Googling like crazy. So, so that So okay, so you, you know he's going to eat well. What's is it still difficult to make that decision the first time like we're gonna give insulin before food?

Adam 30:23
Well, we started looking at what the hospital was telling us to do. And it just wasn't adding up. For me logic wise. It's like, wait a second, you want us to wait until after he eats till his blood sugar's rocketing up, and then give insulin just didn't make any sense to me. So we started, you know, when we were like laying claim to inventing Pre-Bolus or anything, but we started getting the idea that, well, this isn't really a great idea. Bolus after eating. And then as we became more familiar with the juicebox community was like, Oh, this is kind of what, what, what makes more sense. It's like, give him some insulin before and if he happens, do more after isn't always taught them up, right? What

Scott Benner 31:22
allows you to hear what the doctor told you see what's actually happening and make the leap because I find that's where people get stuck. They see it may make sense to them. But they can't go against what they've been told.

Adam 31:40
Yes, on my end, it's delving deep into the biology of being really, really often and in that. And I guess at some point, you just got to believe that you know what you're doing. And that, while an endocrinologist knows how to manage all this, they're not in the weeds, like you're in the weeds. And you have to make decisions on the ground that they're never faced with.

Scott Benner 32:13
And private. How and how in the world. Did you allow this dollar to make this decision? Like, what did you What did you what? But But were you guys on board? Did you have a conversation about it?

Riva 32:26
I discovered juicebox when Sawyer was sleeping on me, in the NICU, the first night. I read a thread where like someone was asking for advice for their newly diagnosed baby or toddler. And everyone rushed in and said, Don't leave the hospital without a CGM. And listen to juice box. That's great. So when the I started seeing people the next morning coming into his room, and I said, I want a Dexcom today,

Scott Benner 33:01
how'd that go?

Riva 33:05
I think they thought it was really interesting that the sleep deprived person in a traumatic situation with a little baby was demanding to still breastfeed and to have a CGM. I was really empowered by reading juicebox all night. I'm glad. That's

Scott Benner 33:28
really I don't know, makes me feel. I don't I don't know how to explain it to you. We don't have a therapist here to explain to you how I feel. But thank you. You made me feel nice. I'm happy you found it. How did you find it?

Riva 33:39
I just Googled, really. And somehow, I'm not even on Facebook. But I got an account that night. Somebody said do this. Read this person? Yeah. And I know probably, I could guess I have theory of mind about how maybe that makes you feel. But it's the truth. You changed our lives. I'm

Scott Benner 34:03
glad. I'm glad I'm glad it's going better. And that you honestly that you started so soon. That's the part that makes me the happiest, because I've just heard. And I've just heard too many stories about people who get on the wrong path and takes you know, you get lulled into believing that's the right path. And then it takes years and and sometimes medical issues for people to wonder out loud. You know, maybe I should be looking at something else.

Adam 34:29
That's terrific. Good for you.

Scott Benner 34:31
You actually got them to bring you a CGM in the hospital. Now they

Riva 34:35
brought me a sample. That's cool. That's very cool. And no one knew how to place it. So they pulled somebody whose husband had when she came in. I was in the shower in the hospital room. And Adam, you know, stuck it on his arm and click and we didn't have the right phone for it. Adam found an old one image Word house, I will say from diagnosis onward like it was on for Adam and I, we just jumped into, like, let's do this. Right. Let's try to continue to make an awesome life for our family. It's not to say didn't push us down. We could pretty ground down by course.

Scott Benner 35:25
Yeah, that's pretty much to be expected. You know. And on top of that, we're not even talking about it. But me just said at the beginning, your oldest is neurodivergent. But what is that? What does that mean?

Riva 35:36
I was trying to think about how much of his story I would want to tell. Just to say multiple overlapping diagnoses. Intellect north of 99th percentile. percentile. Super awesome. High needs kid.

Scott Benner 35:54
Okay. They come with medical issues. Newly

Riva 35:58
Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 36:02
Yeah. Okay. Well, so you were pretty tired to begin with? What makes you? What? What made you keep having children? I don't I'm not judging you. I'm just it's a I think it's kind of a reasonable question. What like, when you when you hit a struggle in the beginning, I mean, it slowed us down. I think we thought we were gonna have three kids. So

Riva 36:24
we love having a family. We wanted to build a family. And I wanted four kids. So we're stopping. It did slow us down.

Scott Benner 36:33
Do you want to just try one more time?

Riva 36:36
We are now we're unable to and we're all too old and poor now.

Scott Benner 36:40
Oh, poor don't even have enough energy to have sex? What are you talking about? Wait, how do we make the I can't do that. Nevermind.

Riva 36:51
What's your name again?

Scott Benner 36:51
Yeah, no kidding. Kelly joke sometimes. And she's like, what if we had another baby right now? It's like, I would probably die. I was. Like, I would just shut off. It's not the desire, like the thought of doing it is like kind of exciting, right? But I don't know where the energy would come from. I really don't. I mean, RT is home from college for a few months. And it's fantastic. But she's going back in like eight days. And there's part of me that's like, Oh, good. I'm having trouble keeping up with just the extra laundry. That might be a comment about her clothes. Being a clothes horse, too. I'm not sure. But but nevertheless. So you come home with a CGM. You find a phone you're running. You're seeing things so you get to be more aggressive with the breastfeeding because you can see it. That's kind of brilliant. Injections at that point. Yeah. Yeah. How long did you do MDI for a pen? Yeah,

Adam 37:51
it was two months. Not long. Well, we, they were really good about getting us the paperwork we needed, because Omnipod had just come out. He's on Omnipod. Five. But it had just come out a few months before that, and it wasn't approved for, you know, at the time, he was 15 months old. So that we had to get special permission to use it. And a few other things, but once that all came through, there was a backlog of training, and you have to do the training before you can use it. So we were kind of chomping at the bit. Even for two months. We were like we know this is gonna get way better. getting in the weeds on the epi pens come in point five. increments are not epi pens, but insulin.

Scott Benner 38:51
Yeah, units. You

Adam 38:53
probably remember Scott but the point five increment is not that accurate.

Scott Benner 39:01
And often way too much when there's smoke. Yeah.

Adam 39:04
And so we were doing the best we could. This is to parents hitting it with everything we could. Best days

Scott Benner 39:14
were 45% or what was the range we're trying for?

Adam 39:19
I mean, we're overachievers we wanted said

Scott Benner 39:25
that all you were shooting for him is 90% of what range? What was your level? What was your high in

Adam 39:30
with MDI? Yeah, I think driver got one day at 90%. And then

Scott Benner 39:41
yeah, you didn't hear me twice. She's gonna give it to you now. Go ahead, driver give it to him.

Riva 39:47
He's wondering what size ranges? Oh, so I think it's 70 to 180 70 to

Scott Benner 39:54
180. How many nights will he have to sleep on the sofa for that? What You've just done now, Adam. Yeah.

Riva 40:01
No, it's fine. Thank you for saying that. It's Okay Adam, you can you can still sleep in, you know, in

Scott Benner 40:10
the room. The room on the floor next to the bed. I don't know prop one sheet and a half a pillow. Now I'm just teasing you guys have actually, I I actually recognize your your banter from my wife and I like so. It's it's sweet. Like I don't I wonder if people hear it the way I do but I hear it is very playful and and, and loving actually. So. Yeah, yeah, you big dummy. Now. I don't believe we've shared with people you both hold a PhD in something. Is that correct? That's correct. Yeah.

Adam 40:44
She got hers first. Of course.

Scott Benner 40:49
No, I It's why I'm doing making fun of you. Because I imagine your IQs are like 150 And

Adam 40:56
that's not very nice to make honest people's intelligence. They're not smart.

Scott Benner 41:01
Oh, yeah, that's a good point. I didn't consider it but I you do make a good

Adam 41:08
we get made fun of a lot of just

Scott Benner 41:13
Yeah, is nothing this is gonna sound fairly elitist for a second, but I haven't. I've never said I have a fairly high IQ. I guess I do a good job of like, being blue collar on TV, because I am. But um, I've mentioned it in the past. Like, I was adopted by like, lovely blue collar people. I grew up very, very broken blue collar. But my, my IQ is pretty impressive. Probably not compared to yours. But I love it when I meet somebody who I think oh, I am dumb to that person. That's interesting. To real moment when you're like, oh, oh, I'm an idiot in this scenario. Like, okay, anyway, keeps me I like it. It keeps you from, you know, getting to fool yourself. Anyway, after we're done recording, we'll all compare IQs rather than when there's Oh, please, it's not much fun. First of all, there's a thing people don't want to hear about. And actually, my wife is the only person I ever met, like, personally, whose IQ is higher than mine. And I was like, Well, this is a good move. I'll get like this girl, because she can keep me in line. So, okay, so you go, do you go to a dash First you go right on the pot five. Right to five. Okay. And the what were the Basal needs at that point? You remember he

Adam 42:43
was prescribed point one? units per hour? One? Okay. When we were NDI was two units of Lantus per day, once a day.

Scott Benner 42:58
And so the pump worked for you was no trouble

Adam 43:00
is doubled our time and range instantly. Wow.

Scott Benner 43:05
Jeez, that's amazing. And you the algorithm works well for him. No, no. So how do you make it work?

Adam 43:15
So let's put a caveat on that. It works really well at night. And we sleep better for it. So huge when right there. During the day, it would pause insulin too frequently. And too long. My theory is because he was getting point one per hour. That's a rounding error to most users of the Omni pod five is my guess. And so he would just give him enough basil. And then he would rock it up when we feed them. So we run intricate Basal programs during the day now. And then flip them over to automate it at night.

Scott Benner 44:06
Good for you. You think when he gets bigger, it'll be easier. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's part of me that thinks you're going to be able to rattle this off the top of your head but just if you can't specifically just generally like what is the Basal profile you set up for him that works during the day?

Adam 44:22
That's an easy question. It has heard we talk about it all the time and when the adjustments we make so he begins the day with what we call breakfast basil. And that is his so his regular basil rate now is probably point three or point four per hour. And he gets point nine an hour for three hours through the brackets that make sure that anything he eats doesn't send them

Scott Benner 44:55
out a ranch. Yeah. What's the time for that? What time of day is that? Three out was

Adam 45:00
530 to 830 in the morning, okay,

Scott Benner 45:04
where's the go after the point nine.

Adam 45:07
And then we stepped down to point 7.5 Over the next two hours because at that point is going to try to take a nap.

Scott Benner 45:19
Okay. But the foods still having some impact. Exactly. Okay.

Adam 45:25
So we still need to get insulin network up and feeding itself. Now

Scott Benner 45:33
do you ramp it back up for lunch?

Adam 45:35
Yeah, so we ramp it down for nap. And he gets point to an hour when he's sleeping. And then sort of at one o'clock starts, right, we start ramping it up again. And he generally wakes up between one and 130. And he'll have something to eat soon after that it doesn't wake up super starved, or like he's missed lunch or anything. But we usually try to let the Basal the head a little heavier basil soak in, and then we

Scott Benner 46:07
feel Yeah, that's amazing. You guys are doing a great job. You know, right. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, like, I mean, it's nice to hear, but I imagine you're aware. How often do adjustments need to be made? As he's gaining weight? Time? How do you do it?

Adam 46:25
Yeah, so we usually find we have to go up his Basal rate a little, every few months. When he gets sick. We have other basil programs we run, depending whether it's a rhino virus where he needs more basil, or if it's a gastro virus, and we'll need less. So there's a kind of be adjustments you made. Yeah. And then also growth hormone. Which can really,

Scott Benner 46:54
and you're seeing things off. You're seeing that overnight, mostly. Mostly.

Adam 46:59
Okay. Sometimes we see it a nap, but mostly at night. Okay, he'll just kind of start going diagonal up not stopped for a couple hours. And we Bolus sometimes for that. It's getting really up there. But mostly we let the Omni pod take care of it.

Scott Benner 47:18
I wish I had you guys slow march. I wish I had you guys. When Arden was to see me back then with those half unit insulin pens and or syringes and juice boxes everywhere and testing while she was napping constantly and staring at her while she was napping and wondering what the hell was going on with that stupid meter and nothing else? Yeah, I wish somebody would have. I should have made this podcast sooner for myself as well. I was thinking while I was listening to you, because you're having him as crazy as it sounds. And it does sound crazy. You're having a much better time at this than I did. So.

Adam 47:55
I'm glad we think that all the time. We're very grateful for the advanced medical devices that we have. We think how much harder it would have been even a year before.

Scott Benner 48:05
Oh, no kidding. It's you. Jeez, I wish I still had that old meter. So you could say it was my all my gear was a meter and test strips. And these just needles that were everywhere. That um, we still have some by the way. Like, like, if we ever give Arden an injection like we're like, Hey, I'm not sure if your campsite bad or not. Like let's try to inject here. I'm working from needles that we bought, I mean, roughly 11 years ago that are still in a drawer where they work great, by the way. But um, yeah. So every time I pull one out, it's like a, I get into a time machine and go back to a time when I was just panicked constantly. And really exhausted. So. Okay, so Omnipod five is doing great for you overnight. You're using it in manual mode during the day. My last question about that is was there a learning curve of switching out of manual into auto and out of auto into manual?

Adam 49:07
Yeah, we tried running it in auto during the day when we first got but we would get these really big spikes when he was eating. And so we kind of decided, okay, well, we at least have to put it in manual during the day and we'll do the prescribed Basal rate. And that allowed us to make these intricate basil programs that we use now with breakfast, basil, Sig basil, and all that. So,

Scott Benner 49:38
Adam, what about when you're coming out of the daytime out of the manual? And you've been using much more basil than the algorithm expects? Do you have trouble with Lowe's coming out of manual into auto or have you figured out how to do that pretty well? Yeah,

Adam 49:53
it seems to be pretty good at it. We haven't had much trouble with that. Again, overnight. ate it kind of depends on the night of he's gonna get growth hormone.

Scott Benner 50:05
Yeah. Okay, so it's not been a probably, yeah, not

Adam 50:09
really not a persistent one. But maybe Robin wants to chime in on a little bit more on that.

Riva 50:15
But I don't really understand the question. So

Scott Benner 50:17
my thought my, what I'm seeing with some people is if they do manual during the day and then go into automation, the automation, if they come out of it with a big like, insulin on board, but number, the automation can't stop a low that's coming. So you have to kind of learn when to flip it back into auto. And I was just wondering if that was the thing. It doesn't sound like it was a problem for you.

Riva 50:40
I mean, we, we, you know, we're calculating, you know, what's the IB? What are the cops on board when we're putting them to bed. But sometimes we get it wrong often. So we're putting a sweetheart in his mouth while he's sleeping. Or, you know, we were watching it if he's gonna go low. We just, you know, treat him and keep letting Otto do its thing.

Scott Benner 51:08
Ya know, it sounds like a good plan. What am I not bringing up that I should be? Well, what do you want to know about breastfeeding? A beedis. Baby.

Adam 51:27
I mean, I could explain how we kind of got to a point of being able to

Scott Benner 51:31
Bolus well for it. Yeah, please.

Adam 51:35
So in the hospital, they told us that breast milk has two grams per card, per ounce. And so that's what we went with for a while. And trial and error. Most of the errors showed us, that wasn't the case at all. Even when you'd have what Rocco would say, an ounce a small amount, he would go up really quickly, to idle up or straight hot. And so we gradually started assuming it was more carbs per ounce. And Dr. I got better at estimating the number of ounces that she had available and that he would eat. And so we gradually got to a number of five grams per ounce, okay. And that's all really dynamic, too. We have to go with an average. There's lots of people that's just to get your breast milk analyzed for the number of carbs and in but Rive can chime in and tell you how dynamic that number actually is. So even getting tested once it's just a snapshot in time. That

Scott Benner 52:48
is, is it impacted reiver By what you eat. Or no,

Riva 52:54
I don't know that carbs specifically, are impacted by what I eat. But I can say that generally, the composition of breast milk is at Adams using the word dynamic. So where that's often used, breast milk starts out very high fat for a newborn, it'll change over time. The milk that's at the front of your breast is higher in carbs, and lower in fat. It's called the for milk. Okay. There's been milk that if the baby would keep eating, it's called Mind milk. So that's got the fat. If the baby is sick, the milk becomes fattier iron protein. Yeah. It develops antibodies that are specific to a baby's a virus a baby may have.

Scott Benner 54:00
How do it know? How does it How does it know what's I mean? That's crazy. feels it feels a little crazy, but that's amazing.

Riva 54:09
That's amazing. Yeah. There's receptors in the nipple. Adam wood. I don't know. Maybe you know more about science of it. But that when the baby's when the virus in the baby's mouth was transferred to the nipple. It changes the milk over the course of a couple of hours and days.

Scott Benner 54:31
That's insane. He actually went to a feed Sawyer, he just sent a note. So

Riva 54:35
okay, I was going to ask him to go feed him.

Scott Benner 54:39
So somebody will do it. So you're telling me that that's insane. So the virus that's in a baby? The nipple senses that changes the milk to help the baby?

Riva 54:51
Correct. It's like personalized medicine. Oh,

Scott Benner 54:56
I didn't know they could do that. Yeah, what else can new policies that I don't know about. I'm not gonna Google that guy ever. Yeah. Right, what'll happen? So that's insane. It really is. Can I ask, like a mom question? Your middle one? Do you think? Do you worry about that the, like focusing on needs that, then you run out of time, oh, if your oldest needs things and your youngest needs things, that your middle ones just kind of chugging along.

Riva 55:30
So she's our only girl, I did find out recently that siblings of kids with differences in disabilities are sometimes called Glass children, really, because for two reasons, one, prep, they may become fragile, you know, the idea that they may be not having their needs met. And then also that they report a feeling that their parents maybe looked right through them, you know, I looked past them, when they're growing up, we worry about all our kids in the sense that we want to walk with them on their journeys, and be the supports that they need. So some of them are in something called child centered play therapy. Some of them have their needs being met. In other ways. The best support we can give to her is to put her in public school and have her in front of opportunities where she can do her own thing. Nice, it's good for her, she loves it, it's a good fit with her personality to kind of be out in the world. Good.

Scott Benner 56:58
That's excellent. I think being aware of it's probably one of the best things you could do. Yeah, yeah. Because the example I always kind of fall to is even, even in families where there's no trouble data like that you can just point to easily. Sometimes you just have a kid who doesn't need as much help with their homework. And the parents give more help to the one that does, and you can later get reported back as they get older. Like, you know, nobody helped me with my homework. And they'll say like, I didn't need it. But that's not the point. That's not how it feels, you know? So sometimes it's just nice if your parents turned to you and are like, Hey, how's it going? You need help? Yeah. And there's only so many hours of the day. It's just Gosh, this amount of time just isn't enough time. Do you see a light at the end of this tunnel for you as far as time and effort goes?

Riva 57:58
Like I think Adam said, just recently, we've graduated ourselves from the quagmire to just a pickle to now. We were trying to figure out what's this season called? And, you know, Adam, the other day says, I've got it. This is the new normal. And it felt really good to think now we're just living.

Scott Benner 58:30
Yeah, just this, maybe every moments not going to be our and that you can do like you're really you guys have like a different rhythm now? I

Riva 58:41
think so. Yeah. Yeah. One of the main challenges we have now and I would say have had since diagnosis is that Sawyer is little, and babies and toddlers are annoying. It's a lot. His toddler newness is often harder to manage than his diabetes.

Scott Benner 59:11
Yeah. Oh, that's, that's kind of nice to know, don't you think? Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's very nice to know, actually. So the diabetes as it becomes more familiar, and your experiences build up, you start kind of knowing what to do more intuitively. It does fade into the background.

Riva 59:30
Yeah, I remember you saying that. Maybe you say it all the time. But you said on a podcast I listened to maybe one or two weeks post diagnosis. You said one day it just fades into the background. I think I really held on to that. And in the wee hours of the morning, when things were difficult and like you just said When Everything Feels like a nightmare. I just thought you know, event Really, this will be part of our lives. And we were already tuned into what I refer to as differences in disabilities, because of our oldest, we'd already become sensitive to parenting a child with the unique path. And we hope that this would sort of fall into some kind of rhythm to eventually. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:27
I mean, and yours is positive rhythm to some people fall into a negative one where they just don't understand the insulin or, you know, and yeah, then that just becomes a completely different story. So your story is, it's so weird to say, because I know it doesn't feel like that probably was it's a real it's a success. You know, you have a success story here. It's wonderful. Honestly, I feel really good about it. You're too tired to feel good about it. But from the audio feel good about it. Good. Oh, that was back. That was nice. What, what did he was that?

Adam 1:01:04
Oh, I gave him iron bar. So it's got nuts and little bit of chocolate.

Scott Benner 1:01:14
Was that for a low blood sugar or just hungry? He

Adam 1:01:16
was trending down. So it just kind of, we're not in the treatment territory. It's just a good thing that I'll bump them up and be pretty even.

Scott Benner 1:01:28
This doesn't need insulin because of the situation.

Adam 1:01:30
Yeah, he's gotten kind of gastro budgie the last day or so. Okay, so we're trying to like, ramp down the basil, but I think we've got a little too much on right now. So he was just calming down more than he should have been a little heavy.

Scott Benner 1:01:47
Yeah, I've been. I'm trying a new algorithm with Arden. So I just put it on, like 24 hours ago. And I'm still doing a lot of staring, trying to, like, is this right? Do I turn this knob? Not yet? Maybe what is this happening? That'll go on for a couple of days, where we decide if we're gonna try this one for a while or not. But um, anyway, it's it's uh, it sharpens every sharpens my skills aren't like, why are we doing this? She's like, loop theory works great. I was like, I know, I'm like, let's just try this and see what happens. So you could always just now that they're just, you know, when you do DIY, it's there's just two apps on our phone, like it just shut one off and try the other one. And if you don't like it, you can just restart a pod with the old one and just go right back to what you were doing. So given Iaps a shot, and seeing how that's gone, which I can say on here, because nobody will hear this for like six months. So plenty of time to cover myself. Okay, like so let's get to the most important question. And I'll let you guys get back to your life. When you listen to the podcast. It's on two different devices. Right. So I get two downloads. It's not just one.

Riva 1:02:58
I read the transcripts.

Scott Benner 1:03:01
Oh, forget my question, then. You. Thank you for bringing that up. I never know who the hell is looking at this.

Riva 1:03:12
Mom's mom's.

Scott Benner 1:03:15
So you read the podcast.

Riva 1:03:17
I have to read it. Our kids. So our oldest is homeschooled. And saw us here. They're always with me. And we're pretty careful about what content they hear. And especially our oldest is, you know, understands everything he hears. So I read them on my phone. When I'm putting someone to bed. When I'm cooking, I have an open reading it bits and pieces.

Scott Benner 1:03:51
I'm not appropriate for your nine year old is what you're saying. I agree with you

Riva 1:03:55
listen too much. Oh,

Adam 1:03:57
I also try to make sure they don't get a huge heavy dose of diabetes. talk all the time. I

Scott Benner 1:04:05
think that's yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. I also don't think I'm appropriate for nine year olds in case any Well, that's who we were just being kind. No, oh, you're Canadian, I didn't realize

Adam 1:04:20
will apologize for that after that.

Scott Benner 1:04:23
explicitly and for hours. We're so sorry. We don't know why. But no, that's so cuz I that's the thing, right? That's like an expense for me. And, and it's time and I do it. And I'm like, is anyone looking at this? But I know I know people do. It's just so hard to imagine. Like for people who wouldn't think to do it, if that makes sense. But I'm glad it's there. That's great. They're getting better and better. I was looking into a new company recently who runs the transcript. And at the same time each transcript gets its own AI bot. And so instead of asking a question of the whole website, which AI doesn't seem to be up to steal, it is very good when you only give it a few 1000 words. So for example, Jenny and I didn't, what do we do a math of Basal insulin or ISF or something like that, where we just have like a super chatty conversation about how to set up a setting. And I've been messing with it. If you go to that AI and say, I weigh this much. And I forget what else you have to say to it like something very simple. What's my insulin sensitivity factor? Like what's a good starting place for it? It actually goes through the text and comes back and gives you an answer. Crazy. So yeah, so I have an imagination where one day you'll be able to go to the website and ask diabetes questions and get rock solid answers from out of the AI coming out of the tax. So anyway, that's all one of my long term goals that I don't tell anybody about. So anybody who's listening right now, don't bother going and looking because I didn't do it yet. But it's but it's happening. So Oh, I'm so glad you do that. Alright, so fine. So you can't just download them and delete them to help me I don't understand. Right? I don't really ask for a whole lot.

Riva 1:06:17
I can't do that.

Scott Benner 1:06:20
It's, we're on on to one of our best months ever. As we're talking. I'm looking at the countdown for the next 36 hours on Michael, I think we're gonna make it to a pretty cool number. So anyway, you guys were terrific. I really do appreciate this. Thank you so much.

Adam 1:06:36
Do you too? Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:06:38
no, it's my pleasure. It really is. Yeah, we're very happy to give back. And you definitely have this is a terrific conversation. So I mean, this is how the podcast grows, everybody gets done. And they'll say to me, like, we'll get on recording, and sometimes people will go, I'll understand if you don't use that. And I'm like, why? Like, I don't know what you're saying. I was like, No, how many of these do you think I've never used? Anything I've just recorded and going not that one? Not that when I'm you've pretty much heard every conversation I've ever had with people with diabetes. And, you know, everybody comes from a different perspective. And I think in the end, it ends up helping somebody so terrific. So seriously, yeah, I appreciate it. Can you hold on for a minute for me? Yeah. Great. Thank you. So

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#1152 It Was Always Yellow

Craig has had T1D for 50 years. 

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1152 of the Juicebox Podcast.

They will be speaking with Craig who has had type one diabetes for 50 years, Craig and I are going to go through how technology has changed through his lifetime. And that story ends with him building his own Iaps system. I'm talking about 61 year old Craig building his own Do It Yourself algorithm. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan.

Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. And if you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org/juicebox. and complete the short survey. You'll be helping type one diabetes research right there from your phone from your sofa or wherever you are. T one D exchange.org/juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. Ever since it's gonna let you break away from some of the CGM norms you may be accustomed to no more weekly or bi weekly hassles of sensor changes. Never again will you be able to accidentally bump your sensor off. You won't have to carry around CGM supplies and worrying about your adhesive lasting. Well that's the thing of the past ever since cgm.com/juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. head there now to learn more about ag one. It's vegan friendly, gluten free, dairy free, non GMO, no sugar added no artificial sweeteners. And when you make your first order with my link, you're going to get a G one and a welcome kit that includes a shaker scoop and canister. You're also going to get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with that first order at drink a G one.com/juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. My

Craig 2:48
name is Craig, I've been a tier one diabetic for over 50 years. And I'm here to basically go over what I learned recently pertaining to, you know, the the new treatments that are available for type one diabetics that before this May I never knew about, oh,

Scott Benner 3:15
this is going to be interesting. I'm going to enjoy this. Okay. Craig, if you've had diabetes for 50 years, how old are you? I am 61. Very nice. So you're 11 years old when you were diagnosed? 50 years ago 19. So

Craig 3:29
long ago, I can't remember exactly right. But I was about 11 years old to the best of my rescue recollection, I have a younger brother, who is also a T one D. And he was diagnosed several years before me in the early 70s and the early 70s. Okay, wow.

Scott Benner 3:52
Well, alright, so this the reason I'll find this interesting, and I think everybody else will, too, is because you've come up with one idea of management. And it's shifted probably four times significantly since then. But do you keep up with it? So Alright, so first, let's go back and say, Do you remember anything about your diagnosis? Yeah, I

Craig 4:18
remember it very clearly. At the time, you know, obviously, we had some experience with type one diabetes in the family because of my brother. I really didn't have any kind of insight into what what that was like, other than he had diabetes. I didn't know anything more about what this specials, you know, special conditions were surrounding it.

Scott Benner 4:44
You just basically grew up in a house where your brother has diabetes. He gets a shot twice a day, right?

Craig 4:50
Oh, back then it was I believe once a day in the morning, from what I can remember that's that's what I remember myself starting on once a day in the morning, it was it was a pretty slim treatment. Yeah. You know, I mean, I really, I don't know, there wasn't that much known. This is the way you did it. And, you know, so that's what we accepted. I didn't know. But anyway, getting back to how I discovered I had diabetes. Out of the blue, I started to get real thirsty. And I wondered to myself, that's fine. Me. And I had, I had said to my mom, who by this time was taking care of my brother for a couple of years. I said, Hey, Mom, I'm really thirsty. And I'm urinating a lot. And she said, Oh, well take one of your brother's test strips. Because back then we had the test strips that you had to use, you know, you take it out of the little vial and up on the little test strip, and then you look at the color. And I remember revealing the color as I peed on it, you know, in front of my own eyes. And it went, like, all the way up to the worst color. I forget what it was the worst colors or yellow? Yeah, pretty green was the best color and it wasn't green. So she said, really? You sure? I said, Yeah. And we left for the hospital. So it was a pretty easy diagnosis. And, you know, that's how it all that's how it all started. And you know, at that point, it really didn't even understand the impact. Sure, even when I was in the hospital, I didn't understand the impact. And you know, the education that you were given in the hospital was more like, how to take an insulin shot yourself, and not much about how to manage it. I guess they must discuss that at the time with my mom to come up with the dosage. And I'm sure she already had an idea from from doing it with my brother. So that's how it all started. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:53
you have any other brothers and sisters?

Craig 6:57
I have two other brothers. And the interesting fact about that is my brother and myself both have brownish hair. My other two brothers that never develop diabetes have blonde hair.

Scott Benner 7:12
Well, now we know how to avoid it. Yeah, so that's just that's

Craig 7:15
just like a defining, I guess, tree between our chemistry like I must be more chemically like with my brother that has type one diabetes, and the other two are more chemically alike in a different way.

Scott Benner 7:29
I wonder if that's in any way possible? That's interesting. For sure. So you guys see that? That's the fact. Yeah. Well, not that you're not that your hair color is not the same. I just wonder if that actually has anything to do with anything? That'd be amazing. Growing up, do you guys kind of pair up a little bit because of this or does it not bond you like that?

Craig 7:51
I would say somewhat however, you know, we were kids. We grew up in a city you know, we lived on a city blocks. Obviously he was a different age group and we had different you know, different grades of school, different friends, all that kind of stuff. So I think we both kind of just tried to cope in our own way. separately. I don't think we ever got together and compared notes. I

Scott Benner 8:19
say if I'm not mistaken because of this one shot a day process. You weren't really doing much with diabetes, right. If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself and certain situations. Show those around you where you storage evoke hypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G Bo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G Bo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information. Taking care of your health isn't always easy, but it should at least be simple. That's why for the last three years I've been drinking ag one every day, no exceptions. It's just one scoop mixed in water once a day every day and it makes me feel energized and focused. That's because each serving of ag one delivers my daily dose of bye vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics and more. It's a powerful, healthy habit that's also powerfully simple. Before I was taking ag one, I would get that brain fog in the middle of the day, and I just couldn't seem to get on top of it. But now that doesn't happen anymore. By starting my day with ag one, I found focus, and a renewed ability to perform at my highest level all day long. Drink ag one.com/juice box, when you use that link, you're supporting the production of the Juicebox Podcast. I drink age you want in the morning, but you could use it as a coffee replacement before workout or in your smoothie. If there's one product, I had to recommend to elevate your health, it's a G one. And that's why I've partnered with them for so long. So if you want to take ownership of your health, start with ag one try ag one and get a free one year supply of vitamin d3 k two and five free ag one travel packs with your first purchase exclusively at drink ag one.com/juice box. That's drink ag one.com/juice box. Check it out. No, no. Did you ever get let's say

Craig 11:06
you were staying alive Scott.

Scott Benner 11:08
Right, right. We did you ever get low? You have low blood sugars as a kid? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That happened

Craig 11:16
multiple times a day. I'm a kid, you're out running around like a low blood sugar. Sure. I mean, you had to constantly eat to feed the monster so to speak. You know what I mean? It was just, it was a never ending roller coaster. And I'm sure when I wasn't low, I was probably 300. But, you know, we didn't even have any good way to monitor it. So it was it was like the wild west of diabetes. But yeah, you know, looking back people before me, obviously didn't even have a

Scott Benner 11:44
chance. No, no, no, that was that you're you really kind of come into it in one of those very first treatments that allows you to get 50 years with it. Yeah.

Craig 11:54
And I can remember the the insulin that we use was pork or beef.

Scott Benner 11:58
Yeah. Right. So it was

Craig 12:02
there wasn't that much science behind it all, you know? No, no, I

Scott Benner 12:05
take your point. I really do. What's the first shift you remember in management?

Craig 12:11
Oh, that's a long time. You know, I shifted from the one shot a day eventually to multiple shots a day, which still included the one in the morning, but then, you know, I trying to give an extra boost during mealtimes? I'm gonna say that wasn't that successful? Oh, really? I don't think I don't know, the control wasn't much better. How did you measure that? And not only that, but now I had like syringes all over the place. You know what I mean? either used or unused? Or you know what I mean? Really just overwhelmed with a mess with

Scott Benner 12:46
with it with the and then your brother's got it too? How often do you see a doctor? And how are they measuring your success?

Craig 12:53
Back then? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't remember how often I'm gonna say it wasn't that often. Okay. And I guess success was being alive once a year, twice a year. You know, I don't remember all that. Exactly. So, so anyway, you know, as time went on, and I got into my, I'm gonna say, mid 20s. I had moved from the city in that I was living in to South Jersey, where I live now actually Central Jersey on the coast. And at that time, obviously, I had to switch doctors. So I left the juvenile Doctor treatment that I had in the city and went to a normal endocrinologist and the gentleman happened to be extremely good. He was very big on the latest diabetes innovations. Okay. He was like, part researcher, part endocrinologist. So he was he was, he was really good. However, still, you gotta remember that at that time. You know, even though he was up on the latest technology, it wasn't really that advanced. Yeah. However, the insulin pump had come along, and he had been kind of trying to persuade me to try the insulin pump. For I'm gonna say at least two years, and for some reason, I resisted. Looking back on it, it's so silly. You know, I didn't know if it was something they cut you open and plant it in. Yeah, I didn't know anything about what an insulin pump was. No kidding. Now, so,

Scott Benner 14:42
Greg, do you want to do something for me before you go on? I think your microphones working from your laptop. So can you sit forward? I like you better forward.

Craig 14:51
How's that any better? Yeah, it's

Scott Benner 14:53
definitely different. Yeah, if you can, okay, if it's not uncomfortable, if you could stay there, that'd be terrific. No, that's fine. Okay, so it takes him So he's saying insulin pump to you, but you're not even getting enough information to know that it's not a thing that they cut your skin open for,

Craig 15:07
I guess you have these preconceived fears, you know about a change. You know, I want to I want you to understand Scott along this whole route. I didn't think my control was that bad. I thought this is the best you could do. I mean, I didn't have any other knowledge to say, hey, there might be something better that I'm not even considering.

Scott Benner 15:28
Your health is good for these 15 years that we're talking about here. 11 years old, mid 20s.

Craig 15:35
Yeah, I'm gonna save control wasn't that great. But health was very good. Yes.

Scott Benner 15:40
All right. And if you are bouncing high to low your body's kind of accustomed to it. Do you stop feeling lows after a while? Not at that time now. You

Craig 15:49
still felt I didn't? I didn't start feeling lows until my late 40s. Oh, you

Scott Benner 15:54
didn't feel lows at all? You knew would? How did you know you were low? Dizzy. No, I

Craig 15:59
knew lows back then I'm saying I didn't stop feeling until the late my late 40s. Prior to that, I felt lows constantly. Okay.

Scott Benner 16:08
So you felt them? So you were bouncing? You were high and you were low? Did you feel unwell when you were hired?

Craig 16:13
You feel kind of bloated and sluggish when you're high, but you push through it? Same thing when you're low? You push through it?

Scott Benner 16:21
I hate to say that? Well, that was the bit that was that was all you had really. That's all I knew

Craig 16:28
I you know, there, there probably was better treatment, education and better treatment tools. But if you don't realize that what you're doing is not the best it can be. You don't ever change. And that is a problem. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 16:45
it definitely is.

Craig 16:46
That's one of the points that I wanted to kind of make with this whole this whole interview was that, you know, change is something as a diabetic, you have got to adapt constantly. I agree. Yeah. Have you ever heard before right now is not good enough compared to what you're going to do tomorrow? Right?

Scott Benner 17:05
Yep. And stuff they come up with, like, I always say, I keep it kind of simple. What I say is, I wouldn't jump from technology just because a new thing pops up. But you can't get so comfortable that you find yourself 510 years later, and everyone's using an algorithm or something and keeping the right one seeing the sixes without even trying and you're back there going, this is fine, you know, with your eight a one se or whatever is going on, because it does get better. And if you don't keep up with it. I mean, it's gonna catch up to you, I think.

Craig 17:37
I think there's a certain denial. At least in my self, there was a certain denial that it couldn't be better. I thought that, hey, I got diabetes. And this is it. This is what it is. This is what it feels like every day, this is what you do. This is what every diabetic deals with every day, you know,

Scott Benner 17:58
is there any? I mean, you're you're an old enough man to have thought about this stuff. So if you consider that there's better does that make you feel like Oh, I haven't been doing as well for myself as I could have like, does it make you feel badly to consider that there's more? It makes sense. Not really.

Craig 18:17
I'm thankful that there's more. You know, anyway, let me get back to the story with my doctor. So he suggested us insulin pump. Finally, one day, I hate to jump around on your bed. Finally, one day I get I go to his office for my whatever, bi yearly visit. And he got an insulin pump in the office. And he says, You're taking this home with you? And I said, I don't know. I don't know, you know. And so while I hemmed and hawed and ended on and finally I said, Okay, I'll take it home with me, Scott. It's sat in my in my hallway in my house for a year before I started on it.

Scott Benner 18:57
I've heard stories from people back at the beginning of CGM, who would say I mean, up to Victor Garber was on this podcast. And he told me I asked him about a CGM. And if I'm remembering this correctly, he says, I have one of those. It's in my drawer. Yeah. And I was like, Victor, I think you should try it. So I take your point, so it sits in your house for a year

Craig 19:19
or a year. So anyway, one day I finally think, Okay, I'm gonna try this insulin pump. So I get it out. I read the instructions. I call the trainer they come over to train me how to use it. And Scott, it wasn't one day when I realized that I had been making a big mistake. Yeah, I imagine it was that it was that much better.

Scott Benner 19:44
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Craig 21:14
I'd say it was 75% not injecting and 25%. Slowly feeling like you had better control. I mean, when I say better control, I don't think it would have improved my agency greatly right off the bat. But the fact that it kind of alleviated some of the peaks and valleys. Okay, back back, then there still wasn't any compatible GCM. That CGM that worked with the with the pump was pre it was pre that time. So you still had to stick your finger. So that was kind of a big obstacle.

Scott Benner 21:51
Yeah. And is this? I'm trying to do the math. So if you're 11 and 7585, nine, is this the early 90s, early mid 90s.

Craig 22:00
I went back and looked at the timeline for pump introduction. And let's see, what did I find out here on my notes? Where did I write that down?

Scott Benner 22:13
Do you remember what kind of pump it was?

Craig 22:15
Yeah, it was a mini med 530 G, which was in 2007, I believe.

Scott Benner 22:22
Wow. Oh, so you were you're you're older than your mid 20s? By then? For sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yes. No, no, no. And so And what's your blood sugar testing? Like at that point, you have a meter. But are they very accurate? Like this time as time goes on? And meters get better? Do you look back at them and think, Oh, God, I don't even think they were very accurate or just so much better than what you had, like who cared? Well,

Craig 22:48
I guess before I had the, the test strips that you urinated on. I mean, come on. I mean, compared to that, it was like, it was so much better. I mean, it gave you like a number or whatever I forget, but it was a pretty antiquated looking device by today's standards.

Scott Benner 23:06
Okay. I guess anytime you're not paying on your hand is an increase in your happiness. Yeah. And

Craig 23:12
I hate to say but you don't do it. Yet. As as as a kid growing up, how many times you're doing that a day? Yeah, once,

Scott Benner 23:20
right? Even when you did it when you're just shooting once or twice a day anyway, like if you if you peed on that strip. And once your mom said, hey, it's yellow. would she do anything? Scott,

Craig 23:29
it was always yellow. Gotcha. There was no other color on that test trip. As far

Scott Benner 23:35
as I was concerned. You just named your episode, right? Yeah. Well,

Craig 23:39
it was I just was I hate to tell you, but it was for all the years I use those stress test strips. I didn't even know if they were any good.

Scott Benner 23:48
And that's something. So it's this almost meaningless endeavor. You figure that out? Stop doing it. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. So are you do you think? Was your mother adjusting your insulin based on your weight? Or do you think the doctor did that? Like once a year, maybe you went in there? And he's like, just here, make it this now instead? And that was kind of it right?

Craig 24:08
Yeah, I really don't know how that was determined. All I can tell you is it was pretty arbitrary. I gotcha. All

Scott Benner 24:15
right. So now we're on the pump. And you're you have your first, by the way, isn't it great that that your first pump, the biggest takeaway was, Wow, I don't have to inject anymore. And now we're sitting around talking about pumps. And we're getting to the point where we're like, Well, with this algorithm, you don't even have to do this. And when this algorithm it does, like it's it's so great, how far it's come, but you're happier. I imagine you're not injecting there's not needles all over the place. At what point do you start using the pump as more than just a way to not have to inject like when do you start understanding the power of it better?

Craig 24:49
Well, without the constant glucose monitoring capability, that was still very much a guess. Everything was a guess. How am I insulin you decided to tell the pump to give you was a guess there was no carb counting. No real testing. You know what I mean? So you kind of just went with it. what worked yesterday you did that again tomorrow. You know what I mean? And today? It wasn't. There was no science wasn't any science, it was just a better tool than it then is faring

Scott Benner 25:24
better than jabbing yourself. But tell me this again. There's no, you hadn't been taught to count carbs at that point? No, no. Oh, wow. And

Craig 25:33
if they did try to teach me that, look, I'm a young man. I'm busy. I have a career and I don't have time for all that. When am I going to do that? How am I going to tell him when he carbs are in and McDonald's cheeseburger? You had no board back then I told you how many what the book The nutrition facts? Were right. So you Penny No,

Scott Benner 25:53
yeah. So you pick a number or an amount of units. And if you don't get dizzy afterwards, you're like, oh, this might work. And

Craig 26:02
guess what? Or you ate something? If it didn't, if it was too much, you know, three hours later, you had to stop at 711 and get something to eat and grab something Oh, like, I you know, fruit, a fruit of fruitcake or candy bar. I mean, I Oh, obviously, a lot of times I carried that with me constantly. Every day, I needed to treat low blood sugar. I'm gonna say for the first 35 years of my life every day.

Scott Benner 26:29
And so almost like, I don't know, like a scale of justice, where you're just kind of pouring insulin on one side, and then you're holding food in your hand and dropping a little food on the other and just trying to keep those scales as balanced as you can, based on how I feel. I got it. Okay. That was that was the method of control that was

Craig 26:49
now seems ridiculous, but

Scott Benner 26:51
that's what it was. Listen, I wish this wasn't your story. Right. But I like it being told it wasn't that bad. Honestly,

Craig 26:57
Scott, I was very successful, I will be able to do anything on non bi diabetic could do. Sure. So it didn't it didn't stop me. Was it a little harder for me? I'd have to think it was Yeah. But it didn't stop me. You

Scott Benner 27:12
don't think of your life when you look back on it as being difficult? Well,

Craig 27:16
it was the it was the hand I was dealt. And you know, to think oh, I can't do this. Because it's too difficult is just an excuse. Yeah, no, I understand. You know, I mean, I don't think that that that gets you anywhere. Yeah. Do you

Scott Benner 27:34
have to get married at some point or have kids? I

Craig 27:37
did in 1992. I married my wonderful wife, which was awesome. But we do not have any children. Okay, was that on purpose? Or my wife wanted to have children. And I kind of was against it, although I would have went along with it. But luckily, and Mike he and I wasn't really I didn't want to bring a diabetic into the world and be honest with you. That's what I was wanting. Yeah, yeah. No, of course, I always thought that. I

Scott Benner 28:04
don't know how it's funny. I've talked to people who come down on both sides of that argument. And I've understood everybody's perspective along the way, I can tell you that when Arden was diagnosed, like we still considered having another child, and I really do think diabetes stopped us from having a third baby. Now, I in the beginning, it would have definitely been been because I didn't we didn't know what we were doing. And if we would have had to do it twice, it would have been a mess. But by the end, it might have been more about our exhaustion than diabetes. I can't I'll never really know for sure, I guess. Well,

Craig 28:37
Scott, you're not you're not a type one diabetic. Of course, you've been able to watch your daughter all these years and you know, experience through her what it's like to be a diabetic. But I can tell you from my point of view, you never want anyone else to become a diabetic. Never. Yeah.

Scott Benner 28:55
It's one of those. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy thing.

Craig 28:58
Not in a million years. Yeah, I understand. Now, there are worse diseases in the world. Don't get me wrong, but that doesn't. That doesn't take away the fact that somebody should become a diabetic. That's crazy. No, nobody should become a diabetic. In my view.

Scott Benner 29:13
It's tough. Did your mom ever get to see the improvements in care? And did she?

Craig 29:18
Yeah, both my mom and dad are still alive. Oh, geez, how old are they? My mom is in our hair. Early 80s. And my dad is in his mid 80s

Scott Benner 29:30
to either of them have autoimmune issues. Not

Craig 29:32
really, you know, in my home in my whole family. And that was of course, one of the questions initially in the family was well, how did you guys get diabetes, you know? Sure. And I had one of my grandfather's cousins that was a diabetic Other than that, zero other people with any kind of, you know, again, back then. I don't know all of this. Disease and immune diseases and everything weren't quite as obvious as they are today. But but no other signs of immune diseases or diabetes in our family before my brother and I, your parents have arthritis or No, no, their stomachs aren't unsettled they can eat. Well, no kidding. That's something. Yep. Yeah. Wow.

Scott Benner 30:22
How about your brother? Did your brother end up having kids? Yes. Do they have any autoimmune stuff the children know

Craig 30:29
about that. Wow. That was in so far. No problem.

Scott Benner 30:33
You guys are just super lucky. Greg. That's awful. You and your your brother? Do you still talk? So let me go back to you get in the pump. Now. There's your brother have a pump when that happens to you. When you get one. Wow.

Craig 30:45
Not initially. So I got the poem. I was the pioneer, so to speak. And it was I'm going to tell you it wasn't a week after I got the pump that I said to my brother Mark, you gotta get a pump. And it took him like another year or two to get one. I guess we're cut from the same cloth.

Scott Benner 31:03
It sounds like it sounds stubborn guys. Yeah, but But you did. But you were able to get him to get to it eventually. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And

Craig 31:13
he he absolutely said the same thing that it was a huge improvement. And he should have done it sooner. No doubt. Right.

Scott Benner 31:19
Okay, so you're going along like that? When's the first? Like when's the first time you're in a more modern method of management. You're you're thinking about carb counts. And, you know, like that kind of stuff. Like when when do you get into more of a? Because you're there now. Right? Greg? I'm not wrong. Oh, yeah. So

Craig 31:42
when you hear I'm in like the super advanced class class right now.

Scott Benner 31:46
When does that start to happen? And what do you think brought you into it?

Craig 31:51
Well, in 2018, my pump warranty was up on my second mini med pole. And I had tried the Guardian CGM with that. And that was and that didn't work out very well. So when my pump warranty was up, I started looking for other device manufacturers that might have a better a better device for treating diabetes. So I went to the T slim x two with the Dexcom. Five. Oh, okay. Very nice. And yeah, my doctor and everybody, you know, showed me how to carb count and, and all that. And you know, the Quick, quick couple of minutes when you have an appointment. However, I really never never jumped on that boat of counting carbs. However, you know, now you have your blood glucose measurement constantly. So it made the decisions about guessing how much insulin to take a lot better, even without counting carbs, when

Scott Benner 32:53
you see that CGM for the first time. Does it blow your mind? What do you think? Like, I never knew what was happening, or do you have the thought like, Oh, I thought this what was happened? Like, didn't you mean? Like, what did it open your eyes to or or open up for you?

Craig 33:08
You know, gone back? It's it's hard to imagine me. I mean, it's hard for me to remember exactly what it was like, initially, I'm sure it was an eye opener. But against God, you got to understand that, you know, I'm using this as a crutch, so to speak, to get on with my life. Okay, diabetes was not the focus of my attention. Like the main focus my attention, until maybe the last I'm gonna say the last three or four years not that I was out of control. My agencies were always in the sixes. You know, it just, I thought about things I was doing in life, things I wanted to accomplish. You know what I mean? It really, I guess, diabetes, were just not number one. Well, the way

Scott Benner 33:52
it's sounding to me is that see, the way you start? The management is what it is. It doesn't exactly put you on a path of paying close attention to it. And then the pump comes the pumps just a way to get rid of the needles, which is terrific. And then the CGM comes in the CGM, sort of just a way to get rid of like the fingerstick testing to you. It's not you're not looking at it. Like, I wonder what I could do with these things. You're like, this is making my thing easier. Now back to life. That's it. That makes sense.

Craig 34:22
It was a it was a convenience feature. Yeah. Like, oh, I could just look at this. And then that can guide me a little better to what steps I should take as far as insulin management. But it wasn't. It wasn't all of a sudden, like I focused on the readings all day long. No, that didn't happen. Yeah, no.

Scott Benner 34:40
And by the way, I don't expect that this is just because of when you were diagnosed. I don't imagine that that's not happening to somebody right now who was diagnosed a year ago, who's just not looking to be all up in this thing and in constant with it and not wreck or maybe having the same thoughts as you like, maybe this is good enough. I'm standing up You know, I'm doing my thing. Um, it's not stopping me. Why do I need to look farther in this? Or who would even know if there's more? Because most doctors don't talk about it to begin with? Yeah,

Craig 35:09
I'm sure that that whole train of thought is 100%. Right on target. Yeah,

Scott Benner 35:13
that's what I think too. Okay. All right. So, a couple of years ago, you decide or make a leap or something happens. What, what, what in God's name moves you after all this time?

Craig 35:22
Well, in 2020, I switched to a newer 10 To mix to control which was a control. Basal IQ. Yep. Which which regulated your Basal sunlight. And that was a small improvement. And then about a year later, I guess they came out with the control IQ, which was even a step in better in a better direction. And then you're gonna love this. It was only recently May. So right now we are in the end of August, right? In May my pump warranty on my latest tandem T slim. expired. Okay, so every time you know, your pump warranty expires, you start looking okay, which which pumps should I get? You go to the pump store, and you look around, like you're looking for a cell phone, which one has the best features. And what I saw was a world that I never knew existed. Where all the information and technology that had come so far so fast, it blew me away.

Scott Benner 36:30
Yeah. And I, by the way, I don't even know about that whole warranty thing, because Arden has been on a Omni pod her whole life. So I don't think of it that way. Like, she doesn't have a device that gets older and we got to replace it. At some point. She's wearing a new pod every three days. And it's just that it's not how my brain works. But it's interesting the way you describe it. What? So what did you see when you went out there and looked around?

Craig 36:53
When I started to look, I saw two great options that I didn't know existed, okay, the one option was the beta bionics islet pump, which I obviously was really interested in and read all about it and signed up immediately, you know, for the pre order and all that kind of thing, but because I knew, you know, one of the gripes that I had with my tandem control IQ was it was too conservative. It just didn't do enough. So, okay,

Scott Benner 37:25
how so? Was it not attacking your meals as well as you'd like? Was it not keeping? No,

Craig 37:31
no, no, it was it was it was like the, the amount of change that the tandem pump made was so small, it was insignificant, okay. It wouldn't ever capture me quick enough to stop the lows, and it would never give me enough insulin to stop the highs. It moderated them somewhat. But in day to day life, it wasn't a big help.

Scott Benner 37:53
I love that you went from decades of like, this is fine to you're like this not aggressive. That's fantastic.

Craig 38:00
Well, because as you start to gain insight that there are tools available, you really want more. Yep. It's like getting a new car. And all of a sudden, the next year a car comes out with more features. Don't you want the new car?

Scott Benner 38:13
I'll tell you right now this is this is showing you what access gives people? Ya know, it's

Craig 38:19
it's unbelievable. I'm right now it's coming at such a rapid pace compared to what had been done the previous 30 years. Yeah, it's incredible.

Scott Benner 38:26
And listen, you're you're literally excited, you're giddy about it actually does even talk about

Craig 38:31
it. Because because it's great for all of the people now if they can learn and take advantage of it. You know, that to me? Seems like the biggest stumbling point right now is, is the AI? How do you get it out? And tell everybody you know, if the doctor doesn't tell you who's gonna tell you, you're telling people, which I think is, is just phenomenal. But I don't know, is everybody listening to the podcast? I hope they are. But I don't know if they are.

Scott Benner 38:59
I don't have everybody yet. Craig. I'm working on it. So it really is. I try to make the point over and over again that. And I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Because Jenny and I, and I'm sorry, I don't know your level of understanding of the podcast. But it sounds like maybe part of your understanding is coming from the podcast. So I'm gonna definitely yeah, so Jenny and I are working right now on putting on putting together a series for healthcare professionals to walk them through all of the process is from early diagnosis to early at from, you know, early education into understanding insulin like that whole thing. Like we're basically going to put together a podcast series that hopes to teach doctors how to talk about diabetes in a way that won't leave people lost. And just keep going over people's notes and letters and things that they send to me, because I've asked for feedback on this. It's a crime that you would get diabetes in a hospital and someone would tell you, it's just enough to keep you alive. which is what happened to you 50 years ago. And then they get to a doctor who oftentimes won't give them much more information than that. And with the technology being what it is right now, and even before that, like not telling someone how insulin works, I don't know how you manage a person with diabetes without giving them a firm understanding of insulin and what it's doing and how they can use it more effectively. And so I don't know, just hearing your stories means extra to me today, because it's easy to think. Yeah, this happened to Craig because he was diagnosed in the 70s. But if you don't think somebody being diagnosed today on August 24, isn't being treated the same way you are, you're you're not seeing this clearly. The you know, the the people who find this podcast and listen to it, there are a small fraction of the people walking around using insulin. And that that to me is is a shame. So yeah,

Craig 40:55
no, definitely. So I you know, I think today with the, with the evolution of the Internet, and of course, that has come so far, so fast, it's dizzying how fast it all comes out, you know, but that in diabetes is a good thing.

Scott Benner 41:12
Yeah, million percent access to tools, information, other people's stories. It's, it's what speeds everybody up, and gets them through it. And it's exactly the opposite of how the medical community thinks about disseminating information.

Craig 41:30
I don't know why they don't change. I don't get it. Yeah, well, I don't know what either, although I hear I hear that over and over on your podcast that, you know, the people that are supposed to be supporting you don't give you the information that seems so obvious or worse, don't understand it themselves. One or the other. Maybe that's why I don't know why they're not giving it to you. All I can tell you is, from what I've heard, and my own experiences, and I have nothing against my endocrinologist. I mean, I get it, they only get paid so much. You go in and look, every time I go for my visits. I'm doing good. I'm like the star patient. And this is before what I learned recently, yeah, that's with you on a reason that say, Well, did you ever think about change and trying this new thing? You know, even though they should have they didn't? That's

Scott Benner 42:23
such a good point, you start getting judged against the people who are doing so poorly. You look like yours? I mean, what do you sit in there with your tandem? T slim? What's your a one say?

Craig 42:32
i A one C was in the mid 60s 626466. You know, it fluctuated a little bit. But right around that range consistently over the past four or five years.

Scott Benner 42:45
And that's very good. But what you're saying is, is that because somebody else coming in after you in that office is walking in with an eight or a 10, or whatever, you're like, you know what it is? It's like there's three kids. And one of them's a great student and the other to struggle. So no one ever helps the grade student with their homework. And that person that kid inevitably always whenever you meet them as adults will tell you a sad story about when I was in school, my parents never helped me with my homework. And I and they'll tell you I know why it's because I was doing better than the other ones and other people needed help too. But it still has a really bad effect on them and that's the same thing you're walking there with your six to and nobody's talking to you about anything because they figure you must have it all figured out. By the way you live your whole life with a six to it'd be amazing it doesn't mean you don't deserve more information or you know an opportunity at the very least you went looked at the island now the island is kind of talking about holding a seven a one C for people but with all you have to do is tell it I'm having a big meal a small meal or extra large meal. Would you do that? Would you take extra a one C for that? That comfort? Wow.

Craig 43:58
In the beginning, I was really attracted to the No to the less work yeah. However, I think switching from a tandem Yes, I would have I would have accepted the seven to do less work because the tandem still requires a lot of user input constantly. It's just the algorithm is like I said it's not it's not up to the job so you're always tweaking it always Yeah, so I'm thinking wow if I get this eyelid I don't have to do all the tweaking all I do is live my life and that's what they're kind of advertising and and maybe that's true. I don't know I don't have it. Yeah, I haven't even been able to find that many people reviewing what it's like it's very slim at this point. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 44:45
don't think a lot of people are wearing it to be honest. At the Yeah, I

Craig 44:48
don't know if they like it or not. I mean, I don't I don't see it out there. I don't see any information on on the results, you know, outside of a

Scott Benner 44:55
few smaller company. It's gonna take them a while to get it out in the world. Here's what I think I'd be happy to share what I think about Ireland in a couple of sentences. Most people who are living with a one C over seven, I think it's probably a no brainer for them. Put it on big meal, small meal, medium meal, boom, I have a seven and a one C in the sevens, I'd say sign me up if I was in that situation, if you're you, and you know what a six, two looks like. Now, if you're a person who can get an A one C and the fives, you know, you're not going to be looking for that. But to your earlier point about how fast technology is moving, who knows when we're going to wake up and the people that I let are going to be like, Hey, I let keep seeing the sixes, hey, islet we're shooting for like, I don't know what they're gonna keep doing it. They might

Craig 45:43
be it might be capable of that. Now, I don't I don't know. Because I don't have any reports. I have no evidence.

Scott Benner 45:49
They're very clearly saying in their marketing, that they're shooting for sevens and he was pretty well, they're not they're not they're not over promising. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, to your point. Or maybe it's something that they had to do with the FDA for set. Like I have no idea. I can tell you that tonight. Yeah, I can say this on here. Tonight. I gotta think about when things happen. Like when people hear it, not just what is happening here. Yeah, we're gonna sit down tonight and build art in an Iaps. System. And okay, I did that already did. Yeah. We're gonna move her off a loop and try Iaps and see what that is. So yeah, so all this talking. We don't know what you're doing right now. Correct. Like, what is your management right now? What do you get into that? Yeah, you're doing a good job laying this out. By the way. I said you never did this.

Craig 46:33
I'm glad I'm keeping you on the hook. I

Scott Benner 46:35
know you're doing a great job of telling the story.

Craig 46:39
I love killing you.

Scott Benner 46:41
I love I loved earlier when you said I'm sorry for jumping around. I was the one jumping around you were the one trying to get back to the story. So but go ahead. I'm sorry. Good. So what do you what are you up to now?

Craig 46:51
So when I started to look, I know I told you I found the islet, but I also found a really, really fantastic option. I discovered that we are not waiting movement. Okay. And the more I learned and the more I studied about the movement and all of the advantages to DIY systems, I was immediately convinced this was the way to

Scott Benner 47:22
go. Yeah. That's hard to argue with. That's for sure. What did you end up doing? Did you loop?

Craig 47:27
I did not live because I don't have an iPhone. I have an Android. Oh, you did? APS. Oh. So that that pushed me right over to Android APs. And it wasn't easy. Scott, I read all that documentation. I don't know how many times and I'm not gonna you know, kid, anybody that transitioning is easy. However, it wasn't just about Android APS, the system, the algorithm, it was about the learning. Okay. The learning about carbs. The learning are about, you know, different type of carbs, the learning about insulin, the different types of insulin, things I never knew, which is crazy. In this day and age. I have no idea.

Scott Benner 48:10
I don't think it's crazy at all. But I love that you went on the trip and you learned

Craig 48:14
Wow, it was it was I'm telling you I've been obsessed. For the past three months. I've been obsessed, because I know that if I can get all this in my brain. And you know and make sense of it all. It is absolutely the way to go. Right now. There is nothing that comes close. Nothing. These people are the greatest gift. The diabetes ever. Yeah, I think I agree with you. I really don't. They're all volunteers. They all do it because they don't want to be diabetics, either. Yeah, they want to be free of diabetes. So they have decided to make a difference. Yep. It almost brings me to tears that all these people are working this hard. Yeah. For free. Yeah. And then they just let all of us join in for free.

Scott Benner 49:05
It's uncommon to me, isn't it? Oh, it's

Craig 49:07
unbelievable. That me really shows that the world is is really full of great people. No, I

Scott Benner 49:15
couldn't agree with you more. I don't know them all, like by name. And it's a shame that there's there's no way to like categorize them all over. I can just tell you that when somebody brought it to me the first time and said, Hey, I think you should try this. And we got involved. It was the same process. I didn't know what I was doing. I'm lucky enough to have the podcast, like people helped me build apps and things like that. So like when I said tonight, we're gonna make IEPs What I meant was, Mike, who's the guy who has been on the show before is when it's, it's good to zoom in with me and be like, click there, dummy, click there, dummy. And I'm gonna and I'm gonna do that. And so we've been lucky that way. But I agree with you like, one of the first. Listen, I was pretty good at diabetes before loop. I had Arden say one scene fives I knew what I was doing. Like all that stuff I talked about in the Pro Tip series, I pulled it together and I would do it Temp Basal Ling. You know, extended Bolus is like, you know, peppering insulin across timelines, like stuff like that is when you stop and think about it. After you've seen looping. All I was doing was I was acting like an algorithm. Yes. And then when you see the algorithm, I mean, I've said this so many times, I feel like I'm repeating myself. But when you watch the algorithm give you more basil, or make a Bolus out of nowhere, or take basil away. That's when your brain goes, Oh, my God, like, we're lucky to be doing this. Well, with a static Basal rate. We're lucky to be doing this well, with injecting basil like, I don't even know like, how many variables like you were talking about as a young person? How many times am I eating or exercising or doing something like that to make my body fit into the way I'm giving it insulin? Instead of making the way I'm giving insulin fit what my body needs? Like, that's just a super switch over and it teaches you so fast about diabetes, when you watch it work? I know the excitement you're having because I had it years ago, and you're it's like, somebody pulls up the curtain and goes here. This is how it actually happens. It's fantastic.

Craig 51:13
Oh, it's amazing. I mean, you know, the Android APS has one feature that I personally, I think is a great feature that Lupin and IPS don't have not that I'm knocking them by any stretch of the imagination. But one thing I'm gonna say that that is included in and varied. APS is the forced learning. Yeah, you have you have to learn how to use the app and understand how diabetes management works. Before you get to use the company. All the features on the app. Yeah, yeah, basically, you I just, I just, I just finished my learning. Yesterday. I completed all of the all the objectives yesterday. Oh, no kidding.

Scott Benner 52:04
So So explain that to people me three months, explain it to people a little bit you you build the app, but then you basically have to, like answer questions to move forward to unlock the app as you move. Is that right? Am I understand that correctly?

Craig 52:17
Yeah. And the questions are complex, to say the least. But they have accurate, excellent documentation that the volunteers have all put together, that that obviously, in detail, explain all of the every fact every every facet of diabetes, as explained in these documents, and whatever is incorporated into this app, they develop the questions based on knowing all that information, like you know exactly how to carbs impact you and how long it in your system, and on and on and on. And if you don't get the questions, right, you can't move ahead. Yeah. And they're not easy. My wife and I sat. And, you know, at one point, I had to say to her, Look, you got to help me with this. I can't figure it out. And we'll read through the documentation and trying to come up with the answers. And it was, it was really a great exercise. Looking back at it. Was it frustrating at the time? Absolutely. Sure. But do I think in the end, it was a great learning experience, the best it was, I don't know how to develop such a, such a clever way to go about letting people use the app by making sure that they learn that to me is is incredibly important. Smart

Scott Benner 53:46
people, you know, I mean, really, hey, I'm gonna ask you a bit of a bummer question. I'm gonna put it in here now, because I don't want to ask it at the end. Sure, if Android APS existed, when your wife was talking about having a baby, do you think that would have changed things for you? No, no, you okay? You're, you're more

Craig 54:03
I guess not gonna. It's not gonna stop my genetics. Gotcha. Okay.

Scott Benner 54:08
I wanted to make sure I understood. I was like, I wish Yeah, no, I understand. Okay, how long have you been using Android APs.

Craig 54:17
I started on June 6. And in the beginning, I stayed on my tandem pump. And I set up the Android APS system on my on my phone. I built the app, which again, that wasn't easy, either, but anybody can do it. But it takes patience, but I did it. I'm not a computer geek by any stretch of the imagination. I'm unlike you, Scott. I grew up in the sheetmetal business, did you but anyway, yeah, yeah, I own my own HVAC shop.

Scott Benner 54:46
Oh, no kidding. You. Also you and I live oddly close to each other. Because yeah, no, I

Craig 54:51
when I heard that on the podcast, I was like, wow, sheetmetal guy and he's in New Jersey. That's unbelievable.

Scott Benner 54:58
So you built your app. and you're using it with the tandem pump. So that's I don't know about APS,

Craig 55:04
no, I didn't use it with the tandem pump, I kept the tandem pump on. Okay. And now I had an old mini med pump and I got the orange link similar to like what you do it loop. And I set it all up. And now I was able to run it alongside without attaching it to myself for like a week, I think to get a feel for how it all worked without without putting myself in jeopardy, so to speak, because I wasn't sure I knew what I was doing. And that is explained in the documentation that you should kind of do a trial without it attached to you. And that that was really the key to getting a feel for the app and all of the different settings and how to use them. Even though you know, in the beginning, you're certainly not an expert. Right. But you know, you're tiptoeing into it, instead of jumping in i It makes

Scott Benner 55:55
a lot of sense because it makes it available to people who are willing to do that work. And that I think is, again, that's access and it's options. Not everybody is going to do what you did. Not everybody's going to like there's plenty people who hear this and gray, that'd be wonderful. But I can't do that, or I don't want to or I'm not willing to put that effort into it like they know themselves. Right? And it's not, it doesn't give you it's what is it like? It's like making you go over a three month obstacle course before you drive a Ferrari. Like if everybody can relate, yeah, if everybody could just jump into it and go, there'd be a lot of crash Ferraris at the end of the street. And so we don't we don't want that. So the process weeds out people who might not do well with it. And I think that's

Craig 56:39
that's the part that I'm really not that happy about. I don't want to weed anybody out from being in better control.

Scott Benner 56:46
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think all we can hope this is me. I think all we can hope is that all the pump companies keep hearing these conversations about these, these DIY things and say to themselves, can we bring that level of control to the masses? Like, how can we do that? I hope they're all thinking about it, you know, because it's great to put somebody in a not counting carbs situation and give them an A one C and a seven, I think that's terrific. But if you can do that, can you keep working on it and put them into a different situation with a more stability? A lower a one C? Like that kind of stuff? Like I hope they keep all going after it? You know,

Craig 57:24
I think they will just is the pace quick enough. For me. It's never quick enough for me

Scott Benner 57:31
right? Now. It's gonna be fine for a kid against diabetes 20 years from now, but you're sitting here 61 years old, you need it now. So yeah, I

Craig 57:39
mean, it's great to have it now. And honestly, you know, one of one of the main points that I wanted to, you know, bring bring about, you know, by coming on the podcast was that people have to, I should have been looking more along the way, I should have been more open to change. Yeah, and I wasn't. And that is a big mistake.

Scott Benner 58:07
I'm glad that you're willing to share that message. And I don't know how much of the podcast you've ever heard. But that's been my attitude forever. And I can't take credit for that. It's because my friend Mike was diagnosed, you know, when we were in our late teens, and he just didn't move along with things. And now even just hearing your story is upsetting for me, because I think this is what happened to Mike. And like, what's the randomness that allowed you to go forward healthy, didn't allow Mike to do it? You know, like, we'll never know what that is. But yeah,

Craig 58:41
that's, that's, that's tough. And I really, I can't explain that myself. Honestly, I am one of the healthiest people. I know. I mean, I have friends that aren't even here anymore. It's 61 and all my type one diabetic for 90% of those years, and I'm still here. It's crazy. No,

Scott Benner 59:03
I know that, that that bit of it is I mean, that's the unknown part about life in general, but

Craig 59:10
not this kind of the other. The other point that I wanted to make as far as I'm living with, with with diabetes is, you know, I use it as a motivation tool during my life, that look, whatever I wanted to accomplish, whether it was sports when I was a kid, or you know, as you get older, getting married and finding the right woman or, you know, I built my own house, I I have a boat in the Caribbean. I have an island in the Caribbean, I house on an island in the Caribbean. Anything I ever wanted. I use diabetes as sort of like the motivator like, hey, I can do this. In spite of diabetes. If I want to do it. I'm going to do it and I want to make sure that I can say diabetes didn't stop me.

Scott Benner 1:00:03
I think you can say that. That sounds that sounds for sure. Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing that perspective. I really do. Would you tell me what Island when we're done like not where people can hear but when we're not being recorded? Yeah.

Craig 1:00:17
Okay. Why do you want to go to an island? Everybody wants to go to an island Scott, especially if you were working out in the cold as a as a sheetmetal? Worker.

Scott Benner 1:00:25
No kidding. You did HVAC your whole life.

Craig 1:00:29
I started an HVAC around 1985.

Scott Benner 1:00:34
Were you union shop?

Craig 1:00:37
I was both non union and union. We're an independent shop. Okay. But most of our work was done with government type contracts. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:00:47
Okay. Because the work kind of dried up in Philly a decade ago. Right. Like, that's when I got out of it. Yeah. Because the buildings, the buildings went from being built to needing maintenance and the guys that were putting in the dock didn't some of them didn't shift quickly enough to the maintenance side of his I do I have that about right. Sort of

Craig 1:01:07
Yeah, I guess business in general is a lot like diabetes. It's always changing.

Scott Benner 1:01:13
Yeah, you got to save up. Is there anything we didn't talk about that we should have?

Craig 1:01:19
Oh, probably, but nothing I can think of right now. I really want to commend you for the for the work that you're doing with this podcast. I mean, when I found the podcast, which was to Facebook, by the way, and probably through that we are not waiting. When I when I started to do research into what that was all about. I discovered that Juicebox Podcast, it is absolutely a wealth of knowledge. And I know you've made the point many times where all you have to do is listen, and you're learning something. Where else can you do that? You can't do it hardly anywhere else. I don't know of anywhere else.

Scott Benner 1:01:56
I took the reading out of learning. I mean, come on.

Craig 1:01:59
Yeah, I think that's fantastic.

Scott Benner 1:02:02
I appreciate it.

Craig 1:02:02
I hope you're able to keep up with it for a good long time.

Scott Benner 1:02:06
I've been doing it for nine years. I'm not stopping now. So I appreciate it very much. And

Craig 1:02:10
I wish you and your your daughter, of course, the best of luck. And, you know, it sounds to me with your guidance. You know, even though I've heard in some of the podcasts that maybe you don't think that everything that you're suggesting gets through, she's a young woman, but at any time, she will realize that, you know, what you have been telling her is really sensible. Yeah. You know, as a young man, you can tell me anything, either, I don't think you would probably not much different. As you as you age, you realize that, hey, maybe somebody can tell me something?

Scott Benner 1:02:50
Well, when she went off to college, it was a big, it was a big boost for me, because I really watched her take good care of herself. Like, you know, college food is horrendous, you know, processed and not quality. And she maintained 6.4 I think while she was away at college on her own, she was gone for a chunk of time, like, three months. And then she was back for a little bit. But then she was gone for almost six months. And she did that on her own, you know, while being a freshman in college. So I thought she she between the the algorithm and the technology and what we've been beaten in her head slowly. But she really did do a good job. She had, you know, a couple lows. But she managed them and was really, I was really proud of her. So

Craig 1:03:35
if I if I can offer our nanny advice it would be to not let your dad build the Iaps as you do it. Let her look at it and watch it Oh, absolutely. Oh, let her do it or want to do it. That's that's the difference, Scott, that is the difference in getting better at anything in life and diabetes, especially. It's learning.

Scott Benner 1:04:00
She usually sits here when we do it. Maybe I'll I'll I'll shove her over in front of the keyboard instead.

Craig 1:04:05
Get her? Yeah, I think that it would be nice if she heard this and said to herself, hey, Craig is probably right. I shouldn't be just telling my dad, let me do that. Like on your own accord.

Scott Benner 1:04:17
When we get to that day. Correct? Then I'll know I'm out of this.

Craig 1:04:20
That's why That's why I never I never moved on to another thing. Yeah. I didn't know about it that maybe it wasn't available. I wasn't looking.

Scott Benner 1:04:31
Yeah. And I guess what you're you're totally right, that now that you're involved, now that you're in the game, you're going to keep paying attention to what's happening. And then something else will come along and you'll say no, that's not for me. But then something eventually will come along and you'll think yeah, that's a good leap. I'll take that leap. Let me ask you a follow up of a final question. Do you worry about or are you planning for when you get older? And like because right now obviously you're you're incredibly sharp and you know easy to talk to you have recollection and all that. But what happens when you start to get a little older? And you still have to manage your diabetes? Is that something you think about?

Craig 1:05:08
I think about it in general, it's hard to pinpoint what I'm going to do. I mean, you know, I'm not much of a pre planner, other than I know, it'll be different than today. That See, that's

Scott Benner 1:05:23
exactly how I think about it. I have to adapt, you'll have to adapt. But also the stuff is going to get better and better. And when you hope should make Yeah, I do, too, which I think should make it, you know, more manageable.

Craig 1:05:35
Well, I've been I've been reading about all of the new algorithm features that they're that all these great programmers all over the world are working together on and it is amazing. The thoughts and creations that they're working on. Scott is just amazing. Yeah. It's, it's, it's beyond anything I could imagine.

Scott Benner 1:05:59
I'm starting to hear about systems where people aren't even announcing carbs. And well, that's

Craig 1:06:04
part of this. Android APS right now. Yeah. So that's something else I'm looking forward to when they have the unannounced meals, which I haven't ventured into trying yet. But I could. And, you know, obviously, it depends on you educating yourself to what all the settings do. Exactly. And getting them fine tuned. Exactly. But right now there are, I'm gonna say hundreds, if not 1000, or more people throughout the world that are just eating, they're not doing anything. Yeah. They're just eating and letting the algorithm do its

Scott Benner 1:06:40
job. Yeah, that that almost made me cry. Just when you said that just now. And I don't have God,

Craig 1:06:45
and it's going to get better. Yeah, because they're working on what they call branches, which are new branches to refine that system to make it even better. Now, I

Scott Benner 1:06:55
know, I've been watching, I've been watching nice people work on loop for years, and they take an idea and they try something else. And like, Ooh, I love that. But I wish it did this, and they make little. It's fantastic. It really is. Um, it's so cool that you found it after the journey has been on honestly, it's really, really Yeah. So

Craig 1:07:11
for me going to one shot in a day that who knows what it did? Because this is i It's like going to the moon. Yeah, in your own car. I mean, it's just crazy. It's

Scott Benner 1:07:23
a great way to play it. And you trust me. It's unbelievable. That's

Craig 1:07:27
how far we're going to advancement it is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:07:29
And you will get them one day you'll get the thought in your head. You'll think I'm gonna try this no one else meal thing and you'll you'll look into it. You really you will. So Wow. Yeah,

Craig 1:07:39
I'm kinda I'm so happy with what I'm doing now. Still, like, you know, I listen, I've only been counting carbs for three months. God. Before that, it was all it was all guesswork. I have to tell you, we like like you say on the podcast, I look at a meal. Oh, that's six years. Yeah. That's what I did my whole life. Trust me.

Scott Benner 1:07:59
That's still what Arden does. Like we she and I had lunch together yesterday. And her food came out. And she's she just had a cortisone shot in her shoulder. So everything's a little wonky, with her blood sugars, but we're doing a good job keeping it down until till that initial hit goes away. But um, but the the meal came out. And she goes, she's looking at it. And she said, tell me how much you think I should Bolus? And she said, I'll tell you what I'm thinking. I said, Okay, so I got done. I said, I have a card number in my head. And she goes, me too. And I said, I have 60. And she goes, I have 65. And I do 65. Like she wasn't going to do 60 Because I said it but even just that was just looking at the plate. Like neither of us did that we both looked at the plate and came up with that number, you know, and it's very doable. I know that early on. I can't imagine people believe that. But eventually you just kind of get good at it. So And honestly,

Craig 1:08:54
even me, I mean, I look at all the labels, at least in the past two months, I'm looking at every label, I count the carbs, I convert the protein and fat into a car, you know, into a carb equivalent. I take the shot for the amount of carbs that are straightforward on the labels. And I enter the you know the fat and protein conversion into another button that stretches it out over three or more hours. Yep. But guess what, Scott? It's not exact science now, it still isn't exact so we're doing it your way gave you the same result. Probably and it is it a lot more less work. Yeah, probably but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't know how to do to carb counting. It doesn't mean that you can you know skip that but you don't have it's still a guess nothing is perfect.

Scott Benner 1:09:47
I agree. I really don't listen, I until Artem was on loop. We weren't counting carbs at all we were we were counting. We were looking at food and making like a a unit gas in our Ahead, it was actually getting loop that made art in, we had to reverse engineer we in the beginning, we'd look at the plate and go, Oh, that's seven units and then say, alright, well, her her ratio is this. So seven units means this many carbs. And that's how we were. That's how we did it in the beginning. And now she just looks at the plate and then a card number pops into her head instead of a unit number. It's just you can do it. You don't I mean, just takes and that's

Craig 1:10:23
fine. I think that's fine. Yeah. If that's the way you want to do it, that's fine. Because now what your glucose monitor, you're going to see your results. So when the same meal comes up again, you're going to go Oh, last time that didn't work out. So well. Let me do it a little differently, more or less based on what your result was last time? Yep. That's really the defining tool that you need is experience.

Scott Benner 1:10:48
Experience. And you only get that by doing it. So fortunately, yes,

Craig 1:10:53
but But you know, the closer guests you can get by being educated to how to guess, right, the better it is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:59
100%. So you found the podcast? Have you listened through like you listen to it, like for management stuff? Do you like people's stories? What do you appreciate about it?

Craig 1:11:10
I like to listen to the episodes where there is a feature that is a teaching moment. You know, I know that my story right here has been a lot of just my experience. Personally, I don't find that that that. That useful? Mean? Entertaining, right. But I never even listened to a podcast before your podcast. So you know, I turned on the radio and listen to music. I never you know, I never listened to a podcast before I understand.

Scott Benner 1:11:42
I'm sorry. I ruined music for you. So

Craig 1:11:46
I still listen to the music to Scotland.

Scott Benner 1:11:50
Thank you so much for doing this man. I really do appreciate it. No,

Craig 1:11:54
thank you for doing it's got you are you're the you know, the linchpin in this education movement. You know, one of the linchpins anyway, in your own way. And all of that is really a huge advantage to diabetics everywhere. And I would only hope that people with other kinds of afflictions have the same resources because it is really important education is really important.

Scott Benner 1:12:21
Yeah, I agree. And I appreciate your words. Thank you so much. Okay, Scott. Yep. Hold on for me for a second. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:27
Sure.

Scott Benner 1:12:32
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Get the only implantable sensor for long term wear get ever since. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, ag one drink ag one.com/juice box, you can start your day the same way I do with a delicious drink of ag one. Lots of people with autoimmune seem to have trouble with their thyroid. And that's why I've made the defining thyroid series juicebox podcast.com. Click on defining thyroid the menu to find out more. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

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