Scott Benner 12/8/23 Scott Benner 12/8/23

#1080 Grand Rounds: Series Introduction

Scott Benner and Jennifer Smith RD, LD, CDCES share diabetes insights for clinicians who want to do better..

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1080 of the Juicebox Podcast.

I'm incredibly excited to give you a preview of a brand new series that's coming in January Grand Rounds. These episodes are aimed at practitioners, but are also going to be very valuable for people living with diabetes. Our goal is to let doctors know what they should know. I've taken feedback from the Juicebox Podcast listeners to develop this series, we're going to use your words to describe to doctors what they need to know to help you. But moreover, this information is going to let you know what you should be expecting from your physicians and frankly, what you deserve. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. This series is going to help physicians be the kind of people you want to consult. If you're enjoying this series, please share it with your health care provider, doctors that you know in your life or other people living with diabetes.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one is an organization that is dedicated to helping people with type one diabetes. They're asking if you'd be willing to go check them out on Facebook and give them a follow on Instagram and do the same or at their website touched by type one.org. Head over to that website now to see all of the amazing things that touched by type one does for people living with type one diabetes. The podcast is also sponsored today by us med. US med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from she gets her Dexcom G sevens and her Omni pod dashes. But they have so much more. And I'll tell you about it a little later. For now, here's what you need to know, you can get a free benefits check at my phone number 888-721-1514. Or by going to us med.com/juicebox.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:36
Hopefully, none of that was recorded. I

Scott Benner 2:37
did not record any of that. But I'm recording you saying hopefully none of that was recorded. Jenny and I are having a day together. And we're gonna use that energy to build the next series of the podcast. So yeah, let's go. I'm pretty settled on calling this episode Grand Rounds, actually the series Grand Rounds. That is really only from my knowledge of the medical profession as far as I've watched Grey's Anatomy. And because I am old, I've also seen the entire run of er, that's what I know about hospitals, I realized that might not be accurate. But I do remember people saying Grand Rounds, like where all the students would get together and go around with an older more wisdom teacher and they would go from case to case and talk about things. And my idea here, Jenny is this. I feel like we can put a series of of episodes together that would simultaneously teach patients what to expect from their doctors, while teaching doctors what their patients deserve. Because that makes them how to interact, yes, and how to actually feed that information to them. Taking into account that diabetes is probably three pages in a book at medical school and 20 minutes somewhere while you're going through things. And that a lot of people are going to intersect emergency room people, doctors in what like urgent cares in their primary care offices, right? Yep. People who don't aren't schooled on diabetes, the way people who live with it and are correct, what we've done is gone out to the population that listens to the podcast, and so that people know who are listening. I'm talking about 40,000 people on a Facebook group and millions of downloads of the podcast. And we've asked these people, you know, to give their feedback about what would have been helpful, helpful, and what was not helpful. And then we've broken that down. And today, you and I, as we've come to do with the beginning of a series are going to talk through how we're going to build the series. We're going to take this information, put it in some reasonable order. Let people know what to expect. And that's what we're going to do. And you are Yeah, you're incredibly passionate about this. So if you could talk for a minute about why you think this is important. I'd appreciate it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:59
Yeah, I'm, I'm passionate, that's a great word. Because I think that, as you've already stated, general medicine practitioners who haven't had the extra schooling, right, when you complete medical school, then you can specialize, right? Specializing in endocrine, you go on to a fellowship, you complete a fellowship. And so you have that more in depth. In general, a first step, anytime you're sick is going to be a primary care doctor, they're going to be a first step, whether there's symptoms for something or whatnot, you're going to go to primary care, or in the case that really urgent symptoms come up, you're going to go urgent care emergency department or whatnot. And in those cases, they're knowledgeable people. I mean, that's one big thing I want is people to hear that they're schooled. They're schooled in medicine, but they are not schooled in a specialty. And we can't expect them to be either, right. But in order for them to understand what to do, I think it's a it's a two way but right,

Scott Benner 6:14
I want to say right at the onset, that I am almost positive that through this series somewhere, if you're a physician, you're going to feel like there's Doctor bashing going on. And there, there is not we have both have the utmost respect for you, and what you do, and how difficult it is. We just know that the only doctors are the first people to say this, usually, they'll tell people with diabetes all the time, look, you're gonna have this for six months or a year, and then you're gonna know more about it than I am. Right there living with it really is the only way. But the reason that this is so important, even from minute one, is because I mean, Jenny, you know, I'll tell you a little more about what Jenny does as we're going along, but she intersects people with diabetes all day long. I do as well, I have long form conversations with them. And I can tell you that sometimes things that are said to them in the first five minutes, haunt them, sometimes forever. And so when a doctor says something offhanded, it literally it could change their life significantly good or bad. And so why not move it in the right direction is what we were thinking about making this series.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:24
Correct. And I think in general, when we're talking about overall medical personnel, clinicians, we're not doing any bashing. That's not the idea here at all. So that's, that's great to clear up. The idea, though, is for a communication piece, to be more in the forefront of the mind, both on the person maybe with diabetes, and how they can communicate better, but also from the physician knowing that I think a forgotten part of healthcare is that, like, health care is it's it's human care. Yeah. So we're not looking at just talking in a very flat manner to somebody, we're looking at talking to somebody about something that's going to affect their life. And with diabetes, it impacts the life on a 24 24/7 note, right, there's no shut off to it. And so as you said, you may make a statement, as a clinician, that's a statement you think may need to be in the conversation. And maybe at some point, it does need to be there. But in a, in a different way, different context, at a different point, you have to learn, you have to learn what somebody is coming in with the need for at that moment. And that takes talking, right.

Scott Benner 8:44
And there are also I think you have to build more than just a spreadsheet in your mind evolve. First of all, tell him about this. And then the next time I see them all mentioned this, like, you need to know where they are like you might deliver the information, like Jenny said too soon or too late, you might deliver it the wrong way. And I know that you could also be listening and think well, how am I supposed to know where they're at? You could talk to them. Now, that'd be a really great way. Right? And you really have to understand that no matter how much you think you can put yourself in the shoes of a person who needs manmade insulin, or the shoes of a person who is charged with caring for someone who needs manmade insulin. You can't. It's far more impactful, and potentially destructive, and difficult and time consuming and exhausting than you'll ever be able to imagine. And the only thing that will help those people not live like that is the stuff we're going to talk about in these episodes. And you can listen to these and pick it up and apply it to what you're doing. I really think you can help and that's not just me saying I make a podcast. So here's my next topic. We've been doing this a long time. We have a lot of feed back, we know what works. So I hope you guys listen. And if we sound like we're bashing you, at some point, I promise you we're not. We just feel really strongly. And we've also heard from a number of people whose lives have been, I mean, honestly, sometimes derailed by by bad medical advice.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:17
Right. And I think something to go along with that is bad medical advice, or misguided even really understood, right? When you are a when you're a practitioner, and someone is coming to you, that's out of your wheelhouse of being able to answer than your best ability is to say, You know what, I can't answer that the way that you need the answer to come or I don't know enough about it. My job is to direct you to the right person. So it goes along with saying the right thing are saying it at the right time. And in this instance, if you don't know enough, the better thing is to not pretend that you know, and it's to direct somebody to the right person in your healthcare system. So that the answer can be given in the right way and in the right time frame around the right context, you know, to not scare people,

Scott Benner 11:15
and I think don't just think of that as like, I said something to them that was incorrect. Like, here's an easy one, right? If I went up to your general practitioner, and I said, I use insulin, will chicken make my blood sugar rise? I think most general practitioners would say no, if there's no carbs in that, you'll be fine. Right? Like, I think that would be the answer. And it's what most people get, except proteins broken down, it's stored as glucose makes your blood sugar rise? Is it a significant rise for some people, for some people, not depending on variables, too great to even go into right now. But if you tell that person, no chicken won't make your blood sugar rise, you're the deity in this situation, you got the white coat on, they believe you, they'll never think again, is my blood sugar high because of chicken, you've told them that won't happen. And then that that's gone from their mind forever now. And then if someone comes along 10 years from now, and tries to tell them, they'll fight to defend you and what you told them 10 years prior it You mean that much to them? Right in their life. So it could be that and it could just be you have no idea could just be Miss speaking or saying something. Without enough description. I for years. For years, I only thought Novolog was insulin, you didn't know that there were other No, because

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:36
they gave us dialogue was insulin and that insulin, this

Scott Benner 12:40
is insulin, and I went alright, and I took it now this is insulin, right. So I now now when my daughter has struggles, I don't know that I could look into other kinds of insulin, I had no idea. It just would have never occurred to me, because I've already been predisposed to believe that what I was handed is insulin. And there shouldn't be any questions after that. Right? That's all right. And again, this could seem like nitpicking, but I've interviewed over 1000 people with diabetes. And I'm sure Jenny's talked to way more people than that with type one and type two. And it's got an impact on their lives that you, you can appreciate till you have those conversations with them.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:18
And even the simplest statement could be misunderstood. And so that's why really unless you have a good enough idea how to give a simple but correct answer, the better idea so you know what? I don't I don't know, either. Let's look that up. Let's take the time to gather to understand it in office, I think that goes a long way with actually trust from a person with diabetes to the clinician, because the clinician is willing to take that step with somebody or say, You know what, we can set up another visit and or I'm going to have another clinician who knows all about this be the one to present you with the right information, and timely visits, I think within that are an important thing to consider when you're the clinician scheduling somebody out. It's somebody has a question. Oh, it looks like three months from now you can see this person who can answer I know, no, having worked clinically how scheduling works, I get it, but a question needs an answer. And it doesn't need a delay to it.

Scott Benner 14:26
So you know, I think it might be important to dimension here before we go through what we think are going to be the topics the topics in this in this series. Everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor For Omnipod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM, like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514 or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arden does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the show. You know what I'm gonna let it go. I'm gonna let it go. And I'm gonna bring it back up in a second. So let me let me jump forward to the time has to make a note for myself here maybe doesn't fit right here. Okay, so what we've got here is a fairly, a fairly big list of of ideas and thoughts. But I wouldn't want a physician or even a person listening who's like, what am I going to what should I be expecting from my doctor? I wouldn't want you to think, how am I going to put all this to memory? What am I going to carry bullet points around with you make sure he asked me about this, make sure I've talked about that. To me, that's not how this works. To me the way it works as these conversations you listen to them. And you sort of just fold the information into your understanding of diabetes, so that when these things do come up, your natural inclination will lead you towards answers and ideas that will be helpful for you. So don't think of this as like a study guide. And don't think of it as a list. Think of it is it broadening your understanding so that you can ask or, or give the right information? Correct. That's what I was thinking so. So we have a broken down diagnosis, hospitals, insulin food, CGM, and bgmc, insulin pumps, the humanity and mentality, communication, management and pregnancy at the end. And I actually, as we started talking, wandered out loud and wandered on my notepad to myself, do we do want at the end for school nurses too? So let's make a good

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:48
one as well, I do we have, you know, one that came to mind since you had insulin in there, right? is safety. I think safety would go right along with that insulin topic.

Scott Benner 18:03
You're hearing Jenny and I morphing the list as we go. So the reason

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:07
is, because I've I've seen too many things that circulate around insulin, and the topic of safety. It's not discussed the right way and or the tools that are there for safe measures aren't talked about at

Scott Benner 18:24
all. And you might, as an example, oh, everyone knows that. But I quite literally spoke to a woman two weeks ago, who is in her 30s and has had diabetes for 20 years, who until two years ago, did not know that insulin could be dangerous to her. Right? That's it. So that is a thing that I think a doctor wouldn't expect. Right? You know, and so you so you don't say also, here's a good example, and we'll go over that episode. You don't give them the insulin and say, Hey, this is really dangerous, it could kill you. Because if you use too much of it, it can kill you. You don't tell them that. That way you. You want them to know the truth about how it works. You don't want them to be scared to use it. Because all that's going to do is drive people to have higher blood sugars and complications one day, and it's just these are the things we're talking about. So yeah, I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:19
think within that insulin and that safety is tactics of discussion, honestly, because I think too often you brought up, you know, just the word scare. Too often, the strategy that's used, it's not a direct thing, but I think too often scare tactics are used. That shouldn't be the way that people are educated.

Scott Benner 19:46
You can't lump everybody together into one mindset. Like there are going to be some people who don't do a good job taking care of themselves. That might be because they don't understand it. That might be because they're afraid aid, it might because they're apathetic, on and online. But what you what you see happen, the stories you get back from people are that the doctor just assumed I didn't care. But that wasn't the case. And often people have, you know, psychological reasons why they can't do the things you're asking them to do. There's plenty of times and plenty of stories where you as the doctor, you think you're giving great advice, and you're not. And that person is at home, breaking their ass trying to make this work. And they come back to you, and you say, Well, you're not trying hard enough. That's how much you believe in information that is not actually very valuable to them, or you haven't done a good job of, of giving it to them in a way that that they can pick up and use. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 20:42
that's the reason that, you know, you have to with each person, that human piece to it again, you have to bring, like your whole wealth of knowledge into those visits, and your your understanding of being human and all the variables that impact your life up to that visit time, because people are going to lean in and respond and ask questions. And that gives you who they are. And it leads you the route of simplified information, more extensive information, this type of technology to discuss Nope, we're not there yet. I mean, it leads you down the path to help this person on an individual level. But you have to be willing to listen. And I know in today's world, I don't think that doctors don't want to listen, I know that there is a time constraint, I 100%. Understand that. But I think even the first couple of minutes of of a discussion could be enough to be able to feel out the avenue, you're gonna go down for that visits.

Scott Benner 21:53
I think if you heard that, and you think, Well, look, I told them what to do if they don't do it too bad. Like, if that's your feeling, I'll say this to Jenny and I both from different perspectives have an incredible amount of experience, helping people who we are not sitting in front of. Right, and Jenny does it one on one through a video chat, right. And that's a special skill. That's why she's talking so much about getting to know people because that's what she knows, works. And for me, I have a different skill. I help people without knowing who they are. Right, I can't see them. I don't know their circumstances. And, and I'm left to give information in a way that I imagined that the most amount of people can pick up and use. And you need to be able to deliver information in a very digestible way when you do that, because I don't know who I'm talking to right now. Like I could be. And I know I There are doctors, physicians learned people whose kids get diabetes, and they can't figure it out. And they listen to this podcast to figure it out. And I have spoken to people who have not graduated from high school, and who struggle financially, who have mental disorders, like all like all different kinds of people have written to me to say, I'm better off now for listening to the podcast. And that, to me, at its core, is about delivery of the information. Absolutely, because if I said to any doctor, right now, I want you to explain diabetes to a faceless person, I can't tell you if they're male or female, if they get a period, if they don't, if they're an adult, or a child, or if they're 100 years old, or 50. And you can't give them bad information. But it needs to work for as many of them as possible. I think it would freeze them in their tracks. I find it kind of simple to do. And so it's just I don't know why. I don't know why I'm good at this. I don't know why you're good at the thing you're good at but people should, should pay a little bit of attention to this.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 24:02
Yeah, I think one of the biggest pieces that is not it's not personality based that you you start from and it's very directed to insulin, right. Your your big emphasis is all around understanding insulin. And that insulin understanding can get very precise person to person and variable to variable in lifestyle. But in general, if you have an idea of how insulin works, it doesn't matter whether you're male, female with hormone action, a child a 90 year old, you know, whatever. Insulin is meant to work a certain way and if you start to understand that, then the person becomes important because then the action and the use of insulin can be a Just based on the person, I started

Scott Benner 25:02
this podcast almost a decade ago, based on the idea that if you understood how insulin worked, that was the starting point, like I looked at all of the different things that people are told about their diabetes. And there's so many. And I looked at each one of them. And I thought, is this the core idea? No. Is this the core idea? No. What's the core idea? Like, what do I have to know on day one moment one, and it's how insulin reacts in your body. That's it, you need to have some starting point, so that you can begin to have experiences, and then witness those experiences, hold them up against your knowledge, and decide what happened there. And how do I make it do what I want? How do I bend this thing to my will, instead of sitting here waiting for diabetes to happen to me, I'm going to try to happen to it. And because

Jennifer Smith, CDE 25:54
that's where individualizing your use of insulin comes into the picture. Right?

Scott Benner 26:01
Yeah. And I think what ends up happening in a, I mean, we'll talk about it through the the episodes, but you know, you're diagnosed, there's a lot of fear right away, okay, like and good reason to be good reason to be scared, it's a scary thing. And then terms start flying around, and rules. And this could kill, you don't use too much don't use too little shoot for this range. Like they start saying things like that. It's overwhelming. It's incredibly overwhelming. And your brain picks and chooses what it's going to remember. I think most people's brains work, the way they talk about astronauts making decisions, the only problem in front of them is the next thing that can kill them. And then once they once they get that one, then they go to the next thing that can kill them, because everything in space is trying to kill you. So you don't worry about everything you worry about the next thing coming for you. And I think you can get put into that situation when you're diagnosed with type one, or type two honestly, like like, like, quite honestly, this is where at diagnosis, not saying the wrong thing is almost more important than saying the right thing. Correct. So Jenny, the next thing after being diagnosed is for a lot of people, they end up in the hospital. And for a lot of people, just as many actually sometimes I think more they end up like just being sent home adults are sent home at to me what seems like an alarming rate when they're diagnosed with diabetes very quickly. Yeah. So that's going to be we think, right, that's the next episode. So we're gonna start with diagnosis have a big conversation about being diagnosed. Correct. And then we're gonna talk about hospitals. And that first setting that you're in, because that's the next opportunity for a different group of clinicians to be in contact with you. Correct lot of nursing staff is going to be in contact with you. A lot of roving doctors are going to be in and out. I'm not saying you guys send them in just so you can build. But you know, there's a lot of people coming in and out. And they all have to say something to you, if they want insurance to cover it. So we want them to know what they're saying. There might be nothing more disheartening, when you're dealing with a doctor than when you're sitting there. And you realize they don't know what they're talking about. And they know they don't know, we're just talking at each other. Because boy, does that take the air out of you. Because you don't know what you're doing. You're looking to this person, and they're just glad handing you or just talking around things like oh, they're not saying anything. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:33
sometimes that's a process. I mean, having worked, you know, enough hospital time, it's almost an intermediate step of sorts of not that you've given a diagnosis, it's diagnosis, that is something maybe nobody has ever heard of the heard of it, they don't know anything about it. And it's a you know, 100% brand new as diabetes diagnosis typically is. And I think from the clinical standpoint, that is where they don't just want to leave you with this diagnosis. And even if they don't know enough about it, because they're not specialized in it. There's a sense of not leaving somebody just with that new information. And so there's, you know, I need to stay here and talk but I really don't have anything to talk about because I don't know enough to give you answers to all the questions that you have. So I can they kind of skirt around answering things in a direct way because they don't want to miss inform. I don't think any any clinician really wants to give the wrong information at all. But I do think that that time between really talking to the knowledgeable Viet an educator or nurse practitioner or the endocrine team that's going to come in and really give you the in depth right. There's also a time segment where they may not be in the hospital yet, right? If you take your cell For a child, or a teen or a loved one in at two o'clock in the morning, you're likely not going to see a knowledgeable, true condition, physician or team until the normal hours of the day.

Scott Benner 30:14
But again, I think that's why this will be important, because you could listen through this one time, in a few hours in your car while you're working or whatever, and then actually have something valuable to say, even if you are the one at 2am. You know, like, even if you're the one at 2am, who just says, Listen, this is going to seem very overwhelming at first, and I don't want to lie to you it is, but it's doable. You and your team, you know, your family, you're gonna find your way through this, I guarantee, I'll tell you that nicest thing you can say to a person with diabetes a year from now, it's not going to feel like this. Right? It's just just going to be learning some new stuff. And it's not a test. It's not learning like that. It's just having experiences and learning from them and moving on and applying. It's gonna take a little time, but you'll see it'll be okay. Not don't promise them it'll magically be okay. Like you don't I mean, don't don't don't do the thing. That's been happening for decades. Jenny has no idea what I'm going to say right now. But what does everybody told when they're diagnosed? Oh, that

Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:15
it's going to be cured in seven years? Where did you come up with the magic number of seven to begin with? Right? Five years,

Scott Benner 31:22
seven years? 10 years? It's happening. I read an article in Forbes, he didn't say it. It's almost over like that. Don't do that to people don't do that. Right. Cuz then they don't take care of themselves. Yeah, I think it's almost over. Right. Right. So I mean,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 31:35
you asked, you know that what's the biggest thing that I really want? I want? If I if I had like my full 100% wish, this whole, like Grand Rounds, it would be part of like medical school education? It really would. It would be because I think regardless of what specialty somebody ends up going into, it may very well not be diabetes, because diabetes is it's on the rise. Yeah, you're honest, you are going to touch somebody or be touched by somebody with diabetes, whether it's type one or type two, or maybe even gestational diabetes, you know, whatnot, the more you have than the basic of the one class you took in an hour's worth of your medical schooling, you will find somebody that it's valuable for you to know just a little bit more. So that's my goal.

Scott Benner 32:31
Yeah. Because the better chance you'll have not to frustrate that person and make another person who doesn't believe you are listening to you. You know, don't be the dentist that says you shouldn't use candy to stop a low blood sugar to a woman whose four year old will only take candy when they're when their blood sugar is falling, and she's afraid the kid is gonna die. Like that's not a good time to tell her that Skittles are bad, right? I'm gonna curse for a second. She knows Skittles are bad, Jenny. He's in a situation here. The space capsule is breaking open, and she's trying to stay alive and you're telling her Hey, you probably shouldn't eat Skittles. That's what's wrong. Yeah. Like have Don't be the eye doctor who asks if you've tested your blood sugar today, you have type one diabetes, you have tested at 53 times.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:14
You are my one of my favorite questions at the eye doctor is Do you know what your blood sugar is? Nope. Right this?

Scott Benner 33:21
No, no,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:21
I was up. I was supposed to check. What No, I

Scott Benner 33:26
never look. It's crazy. It's a certainty that they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:32
It's because it's on a questionnaire. It's part of the checkoff. Yes, you've asked this Yes, you've asked this. And I know Yeah, even listen,

Scott Benner 33:40
if you're a doctor, just for self preservation, you want to billable person to show back up every couple of months, I wouldn't leave them with the idea that you don't understand their diabetes, because they're gonna bolt from you very quickly if you do that. So there, let's break it down to money, if that makes it better. Like you need to understand this. So you can do good for them. But so that you can also be a viable option for other people. And if you don't think people will go online and tell them don't go see this one that's happening constantly. So, you know, that's how these people stay alive by finding each other and making a community and telling them you know, where the good information is, this is good, don't go there. Just get it you could get a reputation as just being somebody who gets that they don't know and is willing to be in a partnership with someone with it correct? Right. There's a lot of ways to think about so. So anyway, that stuff in the hospital. So those are wanting to to me, but I'd still put insulin one except I'm not asking the person the nurse in the hospital to tell you about insulin, but you're gonna get to endocrinology general practitioner Next type two type one depends on what you are, I guess, adult or child, you're gonna end up in that scenario. This is it. This is when you start explaining insulin to them. And we Jenny and I are gonna have a long conversation about how when Some work so that when you're done listening, you can really understand it too. And I know you think you do, but you don't. So I mean, if you have diabetes and you're listening, then you're just giggling along, like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:11
I know you think you know, insulin, you really

Scott Benner 35:14
are not using insulin, you don't understand how it works, and not for nothing. thyroid medication, right? autoimmune issues kind of run together. So I happen to know a lot about thyroid. Most doctors are terrible at prescribing thyroid medication, they're not good at it. They don't know how it works. And I don't just mean, take it in the morning before you eat. I know you think that that's the whole thing. But it's not and you don't know. And maybe it's not your fault, you don't know. But that little decision, not understanding how to medicate someone's thyroid problem causes them problems with how their insulin works long term and how their weight reacts. And if they're heavier, then they need more insulin. And now you already didn't teach them how to use insulin. And now you're putting them in a situation where they know they need more of it. And you don't know that, you know, because you don't have a thyroid problem and diabetes, and it's cool. Like not to know, we'll explain it to you. So we're gonna go all through insulin, not just how it works, but just any brought up all your safety now. Food is next on our list, huh? Okay,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:18
can I say

Scott Benner 36:20
please go? Also tell them you got letters behind your name? This makes this even more impressive. What are you that

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:26
which is the reason? Yes, so I'm a registered dietitian and certified diabetes care and education specialist. And to be quite honest, as a registered dietitian, you go through a lot of schooling specific to human nutrition. I did many years of education in human nutrition, and an internship program and application in clinical needs, etc. By no means should clinical staff that hasn't had the education be giving out nutrition information. You just really I mean, and this goes, as far as you know, years ago, when I started as an educator, so many people brought up well, my doctor told me not to eat white food. What does that mean? So I can't eat apples, because they're white. And so in general, my statement is, I would never try to tell somebody what to do for a brain tumor. I would say I'm not a specialist. Sounds like you got a problem. You need somebody specialized, though. Please don't tell people about nutrition, because I guarantee that the majority of them don't have nutrition degrees.

Scott Benner 37:41
Well, also, if I'm being told about nutrition from somebody who does not personally appear like they understand it, I have a hard time taking you seriously. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:49
yes, yes, if you're the doctor who smokes and then tells people not to smoke, I guarantee with your

Scott Benner 37:55
yellow fingers, you know what you're doing, that's really hurting you smoking, I heard about it. It's bad. I think Jenny's point is and you know, it's funny when I think of you and where your value lies, for people with diabetes, obviously, being a nutritionist, and a CD is important. But I Brank. Just as importantly, you've had diabetes for over 35 years. So that's a long time and a lot of lessons. And then you, you couple in that education on top of those lessons, then you couple in the experiences you're having talking to people every day, on top of those lessons. Jenny knows what she's talking about. She's not here by mistake. And I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 38:31
I also think within the topic of food, I do think that it's under discussed in the right way. So and I find this both for kiddos, and like all ages, let's just say, you know, the whole idea around food, as you said before, you know, something nice to say is that a year from now, this will look different. And it will be it will be better than it feels right now. Right? Something around food that often gets said is that you really don't have to change anything at all about what you're doing. And I think as an in a nice way. The clinician is trying to just say, hey, it's it's not that bad, right. But in general, there is a lot to understand about food there is and it's not just as cut and dry as take your insulin and eat your food. And the other consideration there is each person again, going on the individual, very personalized basis. Each person needs to know how much they should have. It's not just a well gosh, if you just take your insulin and your time at the right way you can eat whatever you want to eat. And I think that that's that's a widespread problem. Whether you have diabetes or not is just the intake of food is not managed well because we don't understand what our real needs are.

Scott Benner 39:57
Understand food most Have it's processed, yeah, they don't have access to good food to begin with. All these are different problems. And then you just say to them, nothing has to change if you're trying to be kind. It's the same kindness, by the way, that's meant by Oh, I heard there's going to be a cure. It's the same. They're trying to alleviate your your sorrow, I get that. Don't worry, nothing's gonna have to change. Well, yeah, that's true. Unless you unless you eat like, horribly, and you know, like, and then you send them home, go, don't worry, it's gonna be fine. Then they get up in the morning and have a bowl of Captain Crunch and their blood sugar's 350. And you didn't teach them how to use enzyme anyway, by the way, I get both bucket bowls for Captain Crunch. But that's not the point. Like the point is, it's going to impact them hard. And then they roll into lunch, and it's frozen pizza. And then they roll into dinner. And it's processed chicken nuggets, and a friend and oil and all this stuff. They don't know they think they're eating well, right. I promise you. I've talked to a lot of people. I think the majority of people who are eating poorly don't know they are. Right. I honestly believe that. I don't think it's I don't think it's apathy. I don't think it's ignorance. I think they just don't know. And now you're telling them Don't worry about it's not a problem. You don't know what they're eating? How could you possibly say that? Right, right. So yeah, and how does food impact insulin? How does insulin impact food? We're going to talk all about that. Because if you don't understand that, I don't know how you're possibly directing people I am going to share with you that online the other day in the in the private Facebook group, I watched somebody tell a story, where they were in a doctor's office and said to the doctor, look, you're giving me this information. But the truth is, is that 10 grams of this food and 10 grams of that food impact my kid completely differently. Right? And they said the doctor looked at them crazy, like just sideways. And and he's like what he does? Well, there's there's obviously a personal as to the podcast, we're like, well, the glycemic impact of this food is not the same as that, right, and the loads different with this one because it's more complex. And therefore one of these needs a different amount of insulin, actually, it also needs kind of an extended Bolus, and all that and this other ones are simpler. And they're having this conversation and the doctor stopped them and said, This burned in my head when I watched when I read it, you are completely wrong about that. A carb is a carb is a carb. That's what they were told. So now this lady was, you know, educated enough that she could fight back. And by the way, she didn't fight back. You want to know what she did to look for another doctor? Yeah. So but there she was in a room that how many people? Is he saying that to? Correct, right? Yes. And that's not right. And if you heard that just now and thought, oh, wait, a card is not a card is the card for a person with diabetes, you might want to start wondering what else you don't know? Because that's a pretty basic one. And it's huge.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 42:53
Right? Right. Absolutely. Okay. And I think in today's in today's technology use that has become much more visible years and years ago, not so much, right. But in today's world, which we've had technology long enough, now, it's very visible that you can, you know, know the difference between food versus food, even though they technically fall within the same macro.

Scott Benner 43:21
And that's why the next piece of this is going to be glucose monitors, continuous glucose monitors and blood glucose monitors. Yes, because again, it's they're more than I think they're more than what most people think when they prescribe them, and the value that they have, and how you can interpret that value. And the information is huge. So that's going to be the next step. Then we're going to talk about insulin pumping. And I'm probably going to rail against all of you who think that you have to have diabetes for a prescribed amount of time before you get an insulin pump. And we're gonna talk about how they work and how you can support people with them. Then the next piece that Jenny keeps bringing up over and over again, when she and I talked about this, before we got together today is just the mentality and the humanity behind everything. You know, and how important it is to, you know, like we said earlier to treat people, not like a patient and not like a customer, but not

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:15
like a checklist of things that you have to get through because they're necessary to ask about, while they may be important, you have to remember the person coming in is it's got a life, full of a lot of things beyond just the diabetes, which may very well be part of the part of the communication or the conversation that you have if you take the time to listen. Right.

Scott Benner 44:42
And that takes us to the next part, which is communication. We're going to talk a lot about how we have found the talking part of it to be so important. And the tactics I hate to say that word but the tactics that that Jenny and I both use it In what we do separately and together, when we're talking to people together, we're doing it now, by the way, you don't realize it, if Jenny and I were talking about this privately, it wouldn't exactly sound like this. We're delivering this in a way that we think that would interest doctors without making the mad. So they'll keep listening in a way that will let patients hear it. So they know what to go like advocate for. But without making them mad at the doctors, right, like, right, that's what you're hearing for the last 45 minutes is being given to you purposefully. And there's a way to do that. By the way, both ways, doctor to patient, patient to doctor, because, you know, if you just walk in there as the patient, and you're a big pain in the ass, the doctor still a person, and they're going to put up a wall, you know? Namie, right? Absolutely. You're gonna be like, Oh, this one is how they're gonna think when you come in. Right? Yeah, that's not how you want to get your your doctor in get any mean, you want them to be excited to see you. And, you know, and there's responsibility on both sides for that, then we have management Jenny, and I have to scroll down a little bit. To be perfectly honest with you. To see what that is a long list. We put this together a couple of weeks ago. Okay. So this is going to be kind of a big, a big kind of overview about education, you know, kind of don't just teach a man to fish. You know, right, you know, teach them how to fish kind of a situation more about ratios, like real kind of more nuts and bolts stuff that I think that isn't that difficult if you're a physician that you could understand. Right? And then Jenny added pregnancy at the end, because it's one of the things that she does, and she can be really valuable. And that I will probably not say as much during that episode, but we'll talk about that. And then I don't know, Jenny, do we? Do we like adding school nurses to

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:51
this? I like adding school nurses? Absolutely. All right.

Scott Benner 46:54
I'm gonna tell you why. Now, just briefly, and then I'll remember when we make the episode to tell you the whole story, but I'm going to tell you in the nursing, the school nurse part, the story that a guy named Joe literally just called me last night and told me about, and just remind me when we get to that episode to tell you Joe's story about school. Okay. Okay, thank you. I really appreciate this. I'm super excited. Yes, that you're willing to do this with me. And and I can't. I'm excited. It was a great idea. Well, so that's my idea. But thank you. It was everybody's idea. I'll tell you what, being serious. It was a thought I had just out of nowhere, I think I was in the shower. And I was like, What are Jenny and I going to do next? And it popped into my head. But it's only an idea that popped in my head because of the countless hours of conversations I've had with you. And on this podcast and hearing back from people, all of that stuff together. Like it's not some stroke of brilliance? You know what I mean?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 47:52
No. And I think that at one point, I said to you, I wish, I don't know, maybe it was after a particularly frustrating conversation with somebody who was really just, they were frustrated with their, their clinician, and what they were not necessarily getting, or what they had gotten and forced them to kind of change physicians. But I think I had said to you, I was like, I wish that we could just like package the prototypes and send it out to all clinicians that are out there. I wish we could just do this so that they could understand it from this

Scott Benner 48:26
level. Right? So we have this series called diabetes pro tip. And it's this 26 part series that I mean, if you're you know, if doctors are listening right now, I can tell you that most people report back in a one seeing the low sixes the high fives just from listening to these these podcast episodes. It's with Jenny and I. And she's just like, why can't we just like, like, how do you do that? And I kept thinking, I'm like, I don't wouldn't begin to put them on thumb drives and mail them to doctors offices, like, like, yeah, that's not going to work. And, you know, and, you know, how do you talk somebody into getting information that they don't know they need? So my thought was, there are plenty of doctors that listen to this podcast that are that like the podcast. So maybe we'll put this series together and maybe they'll start sharing it amongst colleagues. This is kind of how we were hoping so anyway, I appreciate it very much. Hope you have a good weekend. You

Unknown Speaker 49:18
as well. Thanks. Thanks.

Scott Benner 49:28
I want to thank you all for listening. And I want to thank you us med for sponsoring the episode us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 To get your free benefits check and to get started today, getting your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us but I want to thank Jenny and remind you that she works at integrated diabetes.com If you'd like to hire her and I'd also like to let you know that this series starts off properly in the first week of January 2024. If you're not subscribed or following the podcast right now on Apple podcast, Spotify or another audio app, do that right now, to get the very first episode of the Grand Rounds series, this series will run for my gosh, I think it's going to probably be 910 10 or so weeks. Once a week, you'll get a grand rounds episode. But there's going to be more than that in the first quarter, maybe the first half of the season of the Juicebox Podcast, which by the way, 2024 will be the 10th season of the Juicebox Podcast and thank you very much for being a longtime listeners and supporting the entire show. But we're not just going to get grand rounds, we're also going to get something called cold wind. That's a healthcare whistleblower series. Wait till you hear the whistleblower episodes. These are professionals working in healthcare, from emergency room nurses to human resources, professionals, doctors, everybody in between. They're going to be on the show, anonymously, with their voices electronically changed so that they can feel free to talk about the business they work in. I don't want to give it away, but you're going to be well, it's going to be chilling. So cold wind, healthcare whistleblowers coming in January to the Juicebox Podcast. In the meantime, you're invited to join the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. That's if you're a physician, other health care provider or someone living with type one. It's called Juicebox. Podcast type one diabetes, it's a private group. It has over 44,000 members in it, it gets over 100 posts a day of people living with diabetes. If you're a physician, if you're a nurse practitioner, or if you're just somebody helping someone with diabetes, you've heard this and you think, maybe I don't really understand this enough. Just being in that group. You don't even have to participate. But just being there will help you learn more than you can imagine. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1079 Parenting: Inconsistent Discipline and Over-Involved Parenting

Scott and Erika talk about avoiding unintended consequences of inconsistent discipline and over-involved parenting.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1079 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Erica Forsythe is back today of course you can find Erica Erica forsythe.com. She's back today with another episode in our parenting series. Today's topic is avoiding unintended consequences of inconsistent discipline and over involved parenting. That's a really long title. I'll shorten that for the app. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear in the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you'd like to save 40% off of your comfortable clothing, towels and sheets, do that at cozy earth.com. With the offer code juice box at checkout, you can save 10% off your first month of therapy at betterhelp.com/juicebox. You can check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes, and of course, help us out. Apple podcast changed their app it's messing everything up. You may not be getting your downloads. If you're using the Apple podcast app and you have iOS 17. Please go to your settings to automatic downloads and make sure all new episodes is chosen

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med. US med is where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from you could as well us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 They've got tandem, Omni pod Dexcom libre, and so much more. Hey, Erica, welcome back.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:54
Thank you. It's good to be here.

Scott Benner 1:55
We're going to look today at avoiding unintended consequences of inconsistent discipline. And over involved parenting. Yes, right.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:05
Yes, that's right.

Scott Benner 2:07
That's a t shirt.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:08
Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot we're gonna try and cover today.

Scott Benner 2:13
Well, I appreciate it. I mean, this is Gosh, I don't think I've lost track of how far we are into the, to the episodes now. But it's starting to build into this really lovely companion piece for the podcast about parenting. And I think we're gonna mention here at the beginning. While it's our intention for this to help you with diabetes, not everything we always talk about is specific to diabetes. This is a kind of a more holistic view of parenting in general. Yes, yeah. Yes. So avoiding unintended consequences of inconsistent discipline. Well, I think we all must be guilty of inconsistent discipline, right.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:51
I guess I think we go out as parents hoping and striving to be consistent in our parenting styles in our in our discipline, but we can't always be perfect. We can't always be consistent. And I think it might be helpful to talk about how, how does this happen? How do we find ourselves disciplining our children with their rules or their behaviors inconsistently? And so we will just jump right in?

Scott Benner 3:19
Yeah. Is it because it's fun to listen to little kids curse? And how are you gonna yell at them? When they say something? When they're like, oh, Has it ever happened to you, as your little kid like, stubbed their toe? And then they've just said something like, completely out of pocket? Just crazy.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:38
I know, because I never curse and I'm perfect. Okay, yeah, no, no. Yes, that is that has happened in my household timer to yes,

Scott Benner 3:47
some of my favorite, like, tick tock videos, or have little kids just, you know, there's this one of this little boy, he's gotta be like, two or three years old in a diaper. And he's leaving the room and the moms like, where are you going? He goes, I have to take a shower. He just rolls out the door. And I think how you gonna yell at the kid for that? That's good. But you know, on a more serious note, that consistency, I'm imagining you're going to tell me is incredibly important. Because if it doesn't feel like the thing is really going to happen, then what's the reason to ever act like it's going to I guess it's probably how it looks from a kid's perspective. But tell me a little bit about how this happens.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:33
Yes, so I think the first thing for it from a child's perspective if they are confused what the rules are, right? So they might not know that you have certain expectations, or you might think you've told them once and they should know. So they they are not sure what the what the rules are. And then if they are sure what the rules are, then maybe they're reinforced in consistently at different times, I think for, for example, you have to finish your vegetables in order to get your dessert. If that's a family dinner, household rule, then they understand that that's a very clear rule. But if some days you're like, oh, you know, it's okay. Yeah, I'm feeling lenient. Today, I'm in a good mood, or you want to move on to the next thing. Okay, you ate three out of your five pieces of broccoli. Here's your here's your ice cream, which again, in the moment, we all have probably done this. It's okay, what we're talking about, like, Does this happen consistently? Are you inconsistently? Are you consistently inconsistent?

Scott Benner 5:40
Are you consistently inconsistent? Once it's not a big deal, but if the kid knows, three times a week, all they've got to do is mention the ice cream ahead of time and you buckle then suddenly, there's I guess, it's it's some sort of a power struggle. You just don't even realize it. And then they're winning. And all of a sudden,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:59
oh, yeah, yes. Yes. What? Yeah, we'll get into that that power struggle, for sure. Okay. Perhaps sorry. No,

Scott Benner 6:06
no, please.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:08
So also, maybe your rules might be different in different environments. For example, you're out at a restaurant versus home, or you're at a friend's house or a party. And I think, to a certain extent, we might have certain expectations or rules, publicly or privately. And that's totally fine and normal, but I think it's also helpful for to make sure our children know that too.

Scott Benner 6:30
Yeah. Okay. So, if I'm like, Alright, I don't care today, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go using the ice cream idea. Do I say that to them? Hey, look, usually, we need to eat all the broccoli to get the ice cream. Tonight's a special circumstance, does that actually help if you let them know that this is not me slipping up and misunderstanding the rules, but I am making an exception. And these exceptions aren't always going to happen. Is that actually beneficial?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:55
Absolutely. I think clearly communicating, you know what's happening. And you're gonna let them know, it's all about the expectation that then they can say, Okay, that one time, we got to do such and such, and the role was different today, because they explained why

Scott Benner 7:12
does this also, I'm imagining work backwards, where you can't promise something, and then it not happen. Because I'm just going to come out and say this, my wife talks about this a lot growing up, her parents will never listen to this, where they'd get told, behave today. And we'll go do this for dinner. And then when dinnertime rolled around, they didn't do it. My wife says that it taught her that her parents couldn't be trusted. Because I mean, and I'm assuming if you go back in time and find her parents, they would have said, we had four little kids. It was a summer day, they were out of their freakin mind. I promised to take them to McDonald's, and then it didn't work out. Like I just, you know, it didn't work out. And I couldn't take them. They would never, I would imagine if they heard this right now, they'd be like, that was not what we were doing. But it is what happened. And so so that is this just slightly, like thinking about it slightly differently. You can't promise something and take it away. You can't tell them something's gonna happen and then have it not happen. It's the same thing, right? Yes

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:19
or no? This this happens in my household. In fact, it just happened recently where we said okay, tonight's gonna be Movie Night. And then we we did not move or nor did my children move quickly enough through all the things I wanted them to do and needed them to do to get to Movie Night. So then we couldn't do it. It was too late. So they said we are you know, you're promised it was movie night by said okay, well, we didn't do all these things we needed to do in time. But I didn't. I didn't previously communicate that to them.

Scott Benner 8:48
That wasn't part of the rules. It wasn't the movie. If you little bastards don't take two hours pick.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:56
There's a lot of hoops to jump through to get to Movie Night. But I needed to communicate that to them because then they're disappointed. This

Scott Benner 9:03
is making me think of this very little. Like, I always think of this as a little thing, but maybe it won't end up being in the future. We have a lot of board games in our house, but we do not play board games. And I think it bothers Arden. Like, I think that when she was younger, she wanted to sit down and play more board games together and we didn't do it. And I think that even just having them in the house the promise of it being a thing we did, but it never became a thing we did. I actually think that bothers her. I mean, I don't think it bothers her to like Jack Ruby in a bell tower level. But like I think it I think it does bother her Do you think anybody knows Jack Ruby shut can now right? It doesn't matter. But But yeah, I don't think it's gonna make her like twist off but I do wonder how much of like, how much of a small adjustment to who she is is because of that like that small almost imperceivable let down. You know, so, okay, so Be consistent and be communicative enough so that they understand what are their goals like, what is it they're shooting for? So that they know if they didn't get to it? It's because we didn't do those things, then all of a sudden, that thing not happening is a teaching moment and not a letdown. Right? Because they Yes. Okay. All right. I see.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:20
And she might. So I was gonna say put the board game though, I think it's one thing as having those physical visual reminders of something, maybe she had this expectation that you did, could be painful. But also, did you say was that your rule? Was that your expectation? And did you guys talk about that, right? Today? No, we're going down a different path. But like, did you talk about, hey, we're a family who plays board games, and every Friday night, we're gonna play a board game, then you did it? Or was it just something that was kind of existing?

Scott Benner 10:50
was the intention, I think my wife wanted to be a family that played board games, but we were working in our nest diabetes, and a lot of kids played sports and time, you know what I mean? I'm bringing it up, because I think it illustrates how easily your intention can get discombobulated. And then how a child can see it in a way that you maybe would have never imagined. Because the first time she said that as an older kid, and she's like, Hey, we never played board games. And I wanted to and I was like, all like, it broke my heart. I was like, Oh, we screwed up. I knew we screwed them up. I just didn't know how, even as you and I are talking, I was like, Where the hell was Erica? 20 years ago, I should have had this conversation with her then. Because like, even just this part that we've just glossed over so far, is so obvious when you hear it out loud, and yet hard to make happen, but wouldn't have been difficult to stop it from being a problem. If I just would have used a couple more words. It's interesting. Yes, yes. Okay. All right. Well, keep going. I'm sorry. Okay, so

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:56
when are we so when a rules we've talked about if they're in inconsistent, different times different environments, or with different siblings, you know, if you have more than one child, they can pick up very easily if when a child gets a little bit more flexibility, because they're older or younger, and sibling order, or whatever, whatever the reason. So that is a that is a big deal. And they will use that, you know, and will reflect that back. They are very keen and are very aware of, you know, being treated equally as siblings. Yeah. Between parents. Sorry, go ahead. No,

Scott Benner 12:29
I actually was gonna say something that I don't know if I'm going to share now, like, as I as I heard, my brain said, I was like, that's probably too much. Now, I'm gonna say it anyway, my wife and her sisters refer to their older brother as Jesus Christ, because that's how they feel like he was treated when they were growing up. They joke about it, but they're not joking. Anyway, I think that's it. Right? That's what you're talking about with the Scible? Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:51
And I know that this is that's a particularly challenging one. Again, I know we already you already said at the beginning of episode, you know, where this is general parenting rules. But I know this, that's a really difficult one, when one child has type one, and the other one doesn't. So I just wanted to validate and pause there. I know, that's a really, really difficult thing to navigate that I sure

Scott Benner 13:13
because it's, it's a medical thing, and you need to do it. But other children could look at it as Oh, sure. When it's for them, we have time when it's for me, there's no time. And they're not going to do the reasonable thing, which is say, Well, yeah, we stopped and helped her because she was dying. And you wanted to play a board game and we couldn't get to it. Those are not the same things. But they feel like the same thing. If you're the out of the circle kid in that Yes. Okay. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:39
And those those all, you know, the awareness piece is the best thing to bring into those situations and having those dialogues you know, with your children, between parents, right, maybe one parent is feeling, as you said, kind of more lenient one day and will reinforce the rule, and the other parent won't. That happens, it's very common. And then maybe parents, you're in a different mood, like we've already said, you're in a urine exhausted, tired mood, and you're going to be you're going to consistently reinforce it or not because of that, or maybe you're in a really good mood, man, you're you're feeling maybe stronger, emotionally to reinforce or not. Can

Scott Benner 14:16
I ask a question? Do you think that this is most more specific to a certain age range? Like is there a moment when I get to the point where I can make the distinction and I don't hold it against somebody or something, or know everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox, or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, and they always provide 90 days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies right up to your latest CGM, like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau. And you can reach them at 888-721-1514. Or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juice box. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arden does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the show,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:05
even as from the child's perspective, or

Scott Benner 16:07
if I'm 35. My mom's still treating my brother better Am I still like see, like you know the mean? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:13
I think as you mature, and you also understand the other one, there's their sibling order, there's different relationships between different parents. And maybe Maybe Dad gets along better with with son and mom gets better with daughter or vice versa or whoever whoever it is, I think there can be an understanding and maturity as you grow up. And then you can choose to work through it or not right, you can either understand those dynamics existed for a particular reason, and heal from those. So is there a point at which you understand it? Yes, hopefully. Yeah. If you're if you're healthy enough. And if you're if you're open to it, yeah. Oh, in

Scott Benner 16:53
West, maybe you just want to be mad about it. And it's an easy thing to go off on a good Thanksgiving. Yeah, I got that might be fun. Even if that happens. It's not so long. Why America, you gotta stay busy. Parents escalate when children don't follow rules? Yes. So we've kind of covered that you need to be consistent, that when the rules are flexible, what I guess let's go back to that first step, right? When the rules are flexible, what can happen, if we are

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:23
inconsistent in the discipline or inconsistent in reinforcing those rules, children's children will learn that, okay. There's flexibility here, which sometimes there's a benefit to having some flexibility in your household. But if they realize, okay, there's no consistency here, I can do one thing one day and get away with it. And the next day, it's fine, or it's not fine, then they're they're going to increase their behavior. And you might have some more challenges. And then they're going to test your boundaries, test the rules, test the boundaries.

Scott Benner 17:56
I'll roll the dice and see how this goes. And eventually, you'll weaken and it'll go my way more and more. Yeah, I have to ask you a question. Do you have any knowledge of how the prison systems work? Because I have a feeling like the same conversations happen within like the penal system, like be your enemy, like the testing of, of lines, what happens if you push the line, if you push the line, it never goes back again. Like, that's why you have to hold the line. If you hold the line too tightly, then there's a rebellion. This all seems very similar to me. Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:27
I don't know if I could speak to the prison environment, but I could speak to as a former teacher, that it's really important to have those really strict boundaries, particularly in the beginning, they used to joke and when I was training to become a teacher a long time ago that, you know, don't don't smile till Christmas, or don't smile, don't winter break, like just be really consistent with your classroom management roles. So they understand. So I mean, maybe that is also applied in the prison.

Scott Benner 18:55
In fairness to me, I just got done watching the first two seasons of Mayor of Kingstown. So it's all fresh in my head. If you haven't heard, it's on experimental philosophy, you should check it out. Also, the last week of my life has been my wife making fun of the way I'm saying mayor, she's like, you're saying ma R E? And I'm like, mare and she goes, No. And I'm like, may or and she goes, No. And I'm like, and then that's how our evenings go. Her just mocking me because I can't say ma y o or correctly, Mayor. Well, apparently, but I can't do it. Mayor, did I get it that time? That sounds good. Okay. Well, tell her cuz she's, I mean to my I've gotten some real like, looks that I imagined she got as a child when she let her parents down. She's like, you're so she said it was disgusting the way I said. No, we were having fun. Okay, okay. But it wasn't a mean thing. Although if it sounds mean to you, that was just I was being playful. Anyway. Okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:59
okay. So So okay, so now that children are there, they're testing the boundaries. And then consequently, then you as the parent, you know, we will escalate, right? So then as you were already predicting, we get into this power struggle, so we might be really strong in the punishment or discipline, or the kid wins. And so in those quick moments, we're gonna say, okay, you know, go to your room, you're grounded for the night, or however you whatever language you're using, or timeout. And while I'm not saying that timeouts are being grounded, those are bad. But in those moments where everything is escalated, and you're ratcheting up, and then you're throwing out maybe a discipline that isn't necessarily consistent with the rule, and then they they're escalating their behavior. So then you have these really quick, or you want to avoid it, you want to avoid the conflict. And so that then continues and perpetuates this maladaptive maladaptive behavior. So the child learns, I'm gonna push the boundary, and then I'm either gonna get punished for what, in a way that doesn't seem appropriate. Or the parent is so exhausted. And I know I've been there and you say, okay, just fine. Just yeah, just go do the thing. You know. So then you've created this cycle. And long term, what what we're what we've talked a lot about is that parent child relationship, and you're missing out on that those moments to teach, connect, communicate, validate the pain and that moment, because everyone's so exhausted. Yeah. Does that mean I hope I explained that it takes a cycle that we all can experience, it's hard to break it down step by step. But yeah, and

Scott Benner 21:47
the idea of like you ratcheting it up to a point, that's even unreasonable, like you say something, you say something that you couldn't even make happen if you wanted to, you know, like, You're not leaving your room for two months, like out why that's not gonna happen, that's obviously not going to happen. And then now you're, you have to give it back at some point. And then like it or not in a in a power dynamic, you've lost. And yes, and they've gained higher ground, and now you're working backwards, and you're not going to catch back up again. And then the person then their prisons being run by the inmates. Say, I told you, by the way, it's a terrific show. Really, I might not be able to say it, but I, I can't wait for season three.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:28
Okay, so Okay, as we've mentioned, yes, we are, we get we often we can find ourselves in this moment. But we're, we want to strive, we're all striving to be consistent. I know that as parents, but as we said, we're tired, we're exhausted, maybe we're distracted with what happened in our day at work, or with our partners. Or this can happen too, I'm definitely guilty of this of like, Oh, I'm gonna let them have the thing or do the thing. Because I'm feeling I'm going to be kind and be lenient here in this moment, thinking that, like, that's gonna help improve the relationship. But again, what we're going back to is, we're then being inconsistent with the rules, and we're starting that cycle all over again. Yeah,

Scott Benner 23:08
I think sometimes the problem can be when you're young, and you have kids, you make rules that are like, not necessary. You don't recognize it when you're laying them down. But but you know, you have this feeling of, like, I don't want things to go the way they went in my house when I was growing up. So I'm gonna make all these rules, then later, you look back, I didn't need half of these rules. Like, it's like, Baby baby stuff. Like when you get a baby, and you buy all this stuff. And then you don't realize for about a year later, like, I didn't need half of this, but I did not eat half of this, then the next kid comes. And it's like five onesies in a box of Pampers. And you're like, we're ready. You know, like, and you realize what's really important. But in this situation, it's too late. Because now you've laid out all these crazy rules. How do you do that? If you've if you've made a rule that you don't need? How do you get rid of it without giving up the power? And without putting the kid in a position of thinking, Oh, I got one over on the old lady. How do you do that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:04
You can go back and this can happen. I think with any age, a two year old or a 16 year old to go back and have that conversation, not in the moment when everyone's heightened and upset. But the next day to say, You know what, I'm the parent, as the parent, I've made some rules that I think are really healthy and appropriate. I've also made some rules that I thought were important that maybe aren't important anymore. So here's what I'm thinking we're going to take away this role. And, you know, continuing for the reason why. And explaining I think that's why oftentimes we get pushed back is that our children need to understand why we have the rules, why we have the certain consequences to those roles, and then what to say and when we take them away, we can explain. Okay, I think it's totally fair strategy, and effective to because then they're they're there then you're telling the child Hey, I'm seeing you I'm understanding that this This thing isn't needed anymore. And you're really showing them that you're like in tune with their needs also building that trust. Okay?

Scott Benner 25:07
That makes sense to me. I was just because it's happened. I've said something where we've been doing something for a certain amount of time. I'm like, I don't think we need this anymore. So, you know, but I don't, I can't imagine just enforcing a thing. Because at this point, it's because I said, so. You know, and you don't even worry, we're worse. And to relate it back to diabetes, I think about this all the time when people are their doctors, and they're telling you to do something, and you ask them why? And they don't know the answer. I find that that's one of the most frustrating things about human communication to me that and I don't like the idea of wasted time. Wasted time really bothers me like at a core level. And if someone wastes my time, it's upsetting. Like, I'm, I'm upset by that, and this thing, where, because I think it's also a waste of time to especially when it comes to management. If you tell somebody somebody says you can't have a pump for six months, or you know, you can't do this, or we have to wait this long for that in your and you're over there struggling, and then use one day ask why and they don't have a reason. It's maddening. And it does make you feel like maybe that doctors just the parent who didn't know how to say, hey, we don't really need this role anymore. But and they just keep doing it because it's the thing they do. Or they

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:23
might feel like they didn't have the luxury of like time to even think about it, reflect it and have the conversation, you know that that's, it could be a possible option. And by

Scott Benner 26:33
the way, when you point it out to a doctor who realizes it, but won't back off it because they don't want to give up their power, this is an exact match to what could happen to you as a parent, like if if the if a kid comes to you and says, Hey, we're doing this thing, I don't see why we're doing it, do you. If you don't see, that's where you have to have that conversation and give it up. Because if not, now you're going to be defending, you know, an empty castle, and they're gonna know you're doing it, and it's, you're gonna look like a, you're gonna look like a hypocrite. And like you don't know what you're talking about. And trust me, your kids are going to figure out you don't know what you're talking about eventually. But you don't want to happen too fast, or, or becomes unruly. At this point. I'm 52. I know I'm a little young for how old my kids are. That maybe not a lot, but a little bit, I have a 23 year old and a 19 year old. And it's just true. They're smarter than I am. They're smarter than Kelly, they, they've already figured out who we are, I think they see when we're full of crap. They know when we don't know what we're talking about. They know when to listen to us. And they're right 80% of the time. But the problem becomes the other 20% of the time when they think they know what's best, but they still just haven't had the life experience to fill in the gaps. And then they're kind of half cocked going off and like I don't have to do that thing. He's wrong about that. I've gone through all the information in my head, and I can't find a reason why that's right. And when you try to tell them, Look, I just have more experienced than you trust me, this is where this is headed. It's it's a hard thing to sell as a parent to, you know, I don't know what my point was, but it felt important to share. So there we go. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Move on, please. Thank you.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:13
Okay, so talking about having inconsistent discipline can be you know, there are obviously consequences to that, that we just talked about. And we'll get into some more on on the the other side of that of having excessive praise, which isn't necessarily something I'm highly concerned about, I think in the greater scheme of things. I think when you talk and look up research, from psychologists, therapists, you don't have a lot of kids coming into their office saying, my mom and dad, or my parents just praise me too much. You know, it's usually, you know, either feeling the, over the criticism or the pressure, right. So I don't think we need to spend too much time on this. But I know this is something that has come up in previous discussions is what you know, to praise your child, obviously, is a really positive thing. And there's a whole, you know, positive parenting. And there's a whole kind of camp of just, you know, praise your child catch them being good. And that's how you kind of reinforced the behavior that you want to see more often, particularly you see it in a classroom, and at home, I think that's really a positive, no, sorry, no, pun intended way to parent. But I think we want to be really mindful, in that we're not offering empty praise. And we're not always just saying, you know, good job, good job, good job, or while you're really you're a really good dancer, or you're a really good artist, even though we do want to highlight our child's strengths. They're what I would just wanted to encourage and talk about briefly is to spend more time praising their efforts. And for those of you who have spent some time in This topic already, maybe you've already heard and read about the growth mindset versus fixed mindset. Have you heard that? Have you talked about that? Okay, so growth growth mindset versus fixed mindset was developed in the oh my goodness, placeless language, I think in the late 1990s. And there are schools who are teaching this type of mindset. And so basically, if you're, if your child is coming home saying, Gosh, I'm just, I'm so bad at math, I'm never going to be able to figure out how to do addition, or in the sporting, you know, realm, I'm, I'm a terrible baseball player to have when your child has a fixed mindset, they believe that they don't have any opportunity to learn and adapt. Whereas the growth mindset is okay, I don't know how to do that yet. One of the best things I like to teach my children and my and my clients as well as when I hear them say, I'm terrible at this, I'm bad at this, that all that negative self talk, to say, Well, I haven't learned how to do this yet, throw in the white et at the end. And that is reinforcing this growth mindset. And in that kind of in the larger umbrella of praise, when you're noticing your child working hard at something they have for I mean, the diabetes example, they haven't quite figured out how to how to Pre-Bolus at the right time to say, Gosh, I'm really noticing you're working hard. And you've tried here, and I noticed that your your effort is there, and you'll get it. And or I'll get it if you're still talking to talking to yourself, I just haven't figured it out quite yet. Because that's where we get stuck. And that negative self talk.

Scott Benner 31:40
Yeah, I think the thing you said earlier that really lit me up was saying like, it would be difficult to ruin a child by over praising them. But it's, I think, a thing people most concern themselves with, probably, somewhat unnecessarily and it leads to the under praising, and the under, like, sharing of love. I think that honestly, like I don't want them to just think being here is enough. Right? And so you hold that back. And then I mean, come on everybody you bump into a self esteem trouble. You can be nicer. It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to always be like the tough love angle. Like I'm gonna put them in the position where they'll end up right. You know, I don't know if that makes sense or not, but that it is the thing you hear people talk about all the time. Oh, it's gonna make them soft, right? It's gonna like, you know, Bob, like telling your kids you love them. It's not going to make them soft. Gonna make them feel loved?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:34
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's going back to the balance, right? Like, if we're praising our child for every single thing that they do, or they're like, they're just being kids. They're doing great. They're, you know, but they're not following your rules or expectations or showing responsibility or, you know, it's all about, yes, we want to praise our children and notice them when they excel when they are challenged, when they are sad when they are happy when they win when they losing all the things. But it's like you're trying to find that balance.

Scott Benner 33:02
So when Cole was very little, I remember being in a baseball practice once and it was a another boy in the outfield. They were teaching them how to catch like fly balls, which is not a thing you think about but when they first start playing, they can't really hit the ball, but they are by far so nobody knows how to catch a fly ball. The outfielders are just there from when the ball rolls through the infield. But once they get to about 989 years old, they start hitting them fly balls, like, you know, pretty high up in the air. So this kid settles under the ball, put his hand out, does not catch the ball goes straight through and whacks him like in the clavicle, like hits him pretty hard. And I and his mom yells in the stands. Good try. And I heard the coach go, well, not good try, but and he pulled the kid aside and said, I liked the way you stood there. You weren't afraid. He did what we told you to do. That was terrific. Now we're going to work on catching the ball. And it was such as like a fine line. Right? But I saw what he meant. Like he's like, he's like, trying, it's not enough. We're catching a projectile falling in your head. We need to be proficient at this or the next one's gonna catch you in the face, not in the clavicle, right. And so he just didn't want the kid to feel like it was done. But he also didn't let the kid feel like you're a disaster at this. It was really it was really well done by a guy who trust me if you knew him, you'd think Well, where did that come from? Probably because he was treated poorly playing baseball since childhood. You probably knew not to do that. It always struck me that he was not the kind of person I would have expected such a complete answer from but he had it and it was very cool. So and then you made me think great.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:36
That's a great example. Yeah. He's offering a specific praise for the things that he did all the things he did, right. Here's all of these things, some cracks here.

Scott Benner 34:46
But let's not let's not walk away from this moment feeling like you did it because I like your mom and all but you didn't do it. So you know, like it was that was kind of how we came off.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:56
But I love it and there's no shame in it right now. I don't like that with that. So that's

Scott Benner 35:04
what we're figuring it out. Don't worry about it. Like all that was there, you know? Where are we at on your list?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:10
Okay, we are moving on to the consequences of over involvement. Okay. And like being an over involved parent, which might be you might hear overpowering over protecting. There's also all the slang terms. You know, the helicoptering the lawn, mowing, vert, all different phrases of being an over uninvolved parent. And, again, I think it's really important to just to quickly note, too, that we're not just talking about being an over involved parent in terms of your management of your child's diabetes, but we're going to be talking about all the areas of life Sure, yeah, yeah. Okay. So some examples of this as a young child, if your child is young, maybe doing their homework may be constantly, you know, communicating with their teacher, when the child demonstrates frustration, or exhaustion, you might start doing that the task for the child, whether it's cleaning up the room, maybe when they're older, doing their their essays for them, maybe help if there's a involving yourself with their friendship, troubles, maybe too much. And then moving on even, you know, doing their college applications or essays, negotiating salaries, you know, that we can name probably a lot of different examples here. And I think, too, I want to also highlight that oftentimes, the motive is to protect your child, right, and to demonstrate that you love them, and you want to prevent them from having any pain in life. That's usually where the motive comes, right? We're not trying to cause any damage to our child by being overly involved. We're just trying to create a healthy, fun, successful life. Yeah,

Scott Benner 36:57
my wife tells a story of she was hiring somebody, once she was in a position to need to hire somebody for her group. And there was this young lady probably in her early 20s 2223, kind of fresh out of college seemed like a good candidate. But she was kind of stilted. Like, it was tough to talk to her and my wife, Sicard fine, she's young, she could be nervous or whatever. Anyway, this thing came up, but I don't remember the detail of it. And the girl says, Oh, I don't know. But my mom would know. And Kelly kind of laughed a little. And then she said, she's here. Do you want me to ask her? And Kelly's like, I wrote down the paper, no. And then just kept talking to her. To her mom came to the job interview with her. And I guarantee the mom thought she was doing like, well for the kid. But that kid was going to get that job, and then did not get it for that one specific reason. So she was fine. For the position, it would have been fine. It was an entry level thing. Honestly, if she didn't work out my wife and I or somebody else, it was not a big deal, right? Like, she was getting that job. And then she realized to the mother was sitting in the in the waiting room outside, she's like, I can, like, this is too much, you know, and moreover, the girl did not see why it was weird. Like she could tell us like the conversation went on there, she thought it was completely, just obvious that her mom would be with her job, and I feel excessive praise is not the same as reasonable good praise, lay, and you're probably not going to overpraise a child, as long as it's for a real thing. Not just like, hey, what way to get out of bed this morning. You know, and I guess unless that's the thing you're struggling with. But but you know, like, it's got to be a real successful thing that you want that you want to, I don't like to like, let out my Mac of alien side too much. But there are certain things that I do to motivate my kids to do other things. Like it's not that I don't mean it or it's not honest or true. But there's a moment when you say to yourself, you know, if I if I put a little effort into saying good job here on this, it might go a long way in the future, not just in this moment. And you know, I don't know, though. But Eric at how I make a podcast. I'm not tired at the end of the day, for the most part. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not, I'm not working in a steel mill. Like I'm not digging a hole like I'm, you know, I get up in the morning. Let me be honest with you, I get up when I want to get up. You know, I have breakfast, I take a shower, I make a podcast I work on for a lot of time and long hours, but I'm not exhausted while I'm doing it. And if at three o'clock in the afternoon, something comes up. I can normally pause, deal with it and go back to my life. That's just that's not everybody's situation, though. Like I guess that's why you really have to be aware of all this so that when that comes up, and you're tired or bleary eyed or whatever, you still do the right things more times than not. That is really the goal, right? Like

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:52
yes, yeah. And being Yeah, I mean, as you were describing the having the luxury of maybe a flexible schedule or a time I'm, you're also recognizing that not everyone might have that you might be exhausted, and just not wanting to implement all the perfect parenting strategies all the time. Yeah. But yeah, trying to do your best, as much as you can, in fairness,

Scott Benner 40:14
I'm gonna get my hair cut tomorrow with a bunch of 65 year old ladies, because, you know, they don't have a job either. It is true. It's, I mean, life's hard. And you know, your days can be long, you've said it before, like, you could be having a thing with a spouse or with another person in your life. And these things don't seem, it's difficult to see these things for what they are when they're happening. Yes, I think is really the biggest problem. And that's why you almost have to teach yourself these ideas so that they come up naturally. And not. You don't have to stop yourself and go, Oh, my God, I can't say that here. Because 16 years from now, like, you know, that's, that's tough sledding, if that's how you're thinking about it, it's hard. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:56
And I think as you said, it's to keep it on the forefront. So maybe you you listen to this podcast, or you follow other people parenting, you know, lessons, instruction on on Instagram, I think it's helpful to refresh, remind yourself of some of these tactics and tools, because it's easy to forget, I you know, just even I'm reminded of things as I talk, prepare and talk with you about these these tools. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a good one. I forgot about that.

Scott Benner 41:26
Well, I apologize. I took you backwards a little bit. We were talking about over involvement, it just I don't know, it seems important to me to say to people, like, I know, this isn't easy, and that you might not have the bandwidth for it. But here's why it's important. But anyway, I'm sorry, being over 100%. Yes. So being over involved in all the things you mentioned, it's dangerous. Why? What does it do?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:48
So again, validating are the motive of an over involved parent is because you are doing your best trying to protect and prevent your child from pain. That's usually what's what's happening. And so, unfortunately, though, some of the consequences of that is that you're teaching your child, that the world is a dangerous place, for example, you're going outside with your child, I'm going to be maybe extreme like, don't, don't go out. Don't go outside without shoes, and socks, don't forget to put on all of your sunblock and bug repellent Don't Don't cross the street with a holding my hand, these are all good things. But then you're like, wait, watch out, there's a step there. Don't forget, you're gonna follow that, you know, that's like this constant. If you're the constant narrative, again, I do all of those things for my children's certain points. But then if it's like this constant chatter to your child of watching out for the next thing, either physically or emotionally, they are then internalizing, oh my gosh, this is really, it's really scary out here. I don't know what to do without, without my parent telling me, You know what to look out for, or I don't know how to interact in this situation without my parent telling me how to say what to do, how to correct this conversation. And so then, that also can develop into, you know, different types of anxieties, separation, anxiety, social anxiety, and these are, it's, it's, it does happen, unfortunately. And then in terminally the child than teen then young adult, has this narrative of like, I don't feel like I can face the world. By myself, I don't feel like I'm good enough or strong enough, or have the ability to make these decisions by myself. So in general, there's a kind of a lower, lower self esteem and confidence in their ability to make decisions and solve problems.

Scott Benner 43:41
I want to parent how would a person know if they're just doing that by mistake, or if there's an underlying reason why they're doing it, like they're trying to keep the kid close by because it makes them feel more comfortable, like, like, what happens when it's, you know, again, not much housands but like that idea of, like, let me keep them reliant on me because it makes me feel needed or it makes me feel important because you could be having your own psychological struggles to like, right, as you see the kid like separating from you, it might cause like, real panic, and like, let me keep them infantilized a little bit and keep them with me. And then, you know, I won't have to worry about this separation ever happening. I mean, that's got to be pretty prevalent with people I would imagine.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:25
Either that mindset of like I want them to, I want to feel needed, or watching your child go out into the world triggers so much anxiety within yourself, that the only way to try and feel like you can control you can manage your anxiety is to control the behaviors, or feel like you're protecting your child. And that's what you're trying to you're trying to mitigate and manage your own anxiety by those behaviors. So I see those two types happening.

Scott Benner 44:54
I mean, I bring it up because for me, one of the difficult leaps of being a parent And this is gonna sound harsh, but like for a lot of things, you have to say to yourself at some point, if they die, they die. But living like this would be a different kind of death. So do you know what I mean? Like, you have to be able to go live your life. And it's the worst job in the world because you take this thing that you love, and all you want is to be with it. But everything you do is to give it the opportunity to get away from you. Which is just, it feels crazy while it's happening. I mean, listen, my kids are older, it still feels crazy. Like my wife will joke sometimes she's like, waiter, prepare them for the world. Now they don't need us. It's hard to remember that, yes, a certain amount of people are going to have like, like something terrible happen to them. And but that's not a thing, you can necessarily stop, you can reasonably protect against that don't go out at night, in a bad neighborhood by yourself, you know, that kind of thing. But if your kids like I want to move to the city, that would make me happy. You gotta let that happen. You know, like when they get their driver's license, yes, some kids wreck their cars and die, most of them don't. And how do you No, but if you keep locking them up and locking them up, they never get anywhere. And then they can't take care of themselves. Now they're still alive. And everything's a show. And because I mean, like you're talking about the anxiety, or I don't know if even got to like the lower self esteem and no confidence and all that that's going to come from that. And this is an absolute apples to apples comparison with diabetes, like 1,000,000%, you cannot, you have to take care of it for them. But you have to teach them how to take care of it for themselves. And then you have to let go of it. As it happens. I personally went with a slow release over a long amount of time. But that came from me listening to people talk who were just like thrown into it. And it never worked for them. No one comes on here and tells a story of like, you know, I was diagnosed when I was 12. My parents like you can handle it. And then everything was great. That does not usually happen like that, right. And so I just thought, the way I usually talked about on the podcast is like I see diabetes, the way I see everything else about parenting, it's a lot of repetition, not being frustrated about having to repeat yourself, knowing when it's time to stop repeating that thing and move on to the next thing. And when is it time to just let go? And then you got to know that the last piece of it's the hardest, because it's all on you. The letting go is like all on you as a parent, it's incredibly painful. So I've had a number of moments in the last four years that have been like, some of the worst moments in my life. Because I had to like, you know, I had to stand there with this person and go, Okay, well, you should just leave now. Like, that's okay. And then they're gone. And you're still here and alive. And you're like, oh my god, everything's so still. And you know, I don't have anything to do. And it's very, it's very hard to give it all away. And, you know, but if you don't, then you're screwing them over. It's just kind of the way I look at it, you know? So, anyway.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:07
Oh, so it's so so hard. I think

Scott Benner 48:11
it made me sad thinking about it. I know you're making me sad to your kids are little it's gonna make you cry. Just making me sad. It's the worst thing. I'm sorry, I cut you off. I apologize.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:23
I think the the over involvement piece, I think it's very, like it's a healthy involvement, right? Like finding that balance of, I think we've talked about this long time ago, like bubble wrapping your relationship with your child with the diabetes, and keeping that protected. And slowly unwrapping the bubble wrap as they get older. Right and that but they've learned how to had to manage themselves through your, and re like you've protected them. And then you're like taking these layers off of bubble wrap. So they kind of learned they're gonna make mistakes. It's okay. Yeah. And I know it's such a, it's such a painful. It can be such a painful and challenging process. But but then has to be done, as you said, eventually,

Scott Benner 49:12
oh, it's and it doesn't go in case you're wondering if it goes away as you get older, like my son's 23. In a couple of months, he's moving back home. And he's just got to drive across the country by himself. And there's, there's a little voice in your head that says, tell him to live there. Because you don't want him to have a car accident driving home, which is a ridiculous thought. But it does go through your head for half a second. Like, you know, you're like it's just you. It's just you repeatedly trying to protect a baby. Right? Like, you get the baby and everything's trying to kill it. You don't realize that you're holding it. You realize that like putting it down, twisting it the wrong way, like all of its bed food in a bathtub. You're all like, oh my god, it feels like that. And then that's your wiring, and then they get bigger and then fewer and fewer things can actually hurt them. But you still aren't In the part you started in, and you have a note here at how that could turn into entitlement for them. I was wondering about that. Okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:10
so this, let's say, over time, your young child, that is a teen is constantly learning that someone is going to do the thing for me or be there for me fix my problem. Then, as the child launches into the real world, they might enter into the world with a sense of entitlement and assumption that things are going to be done for you that all your needs are going to be met, that you don't have to once you feel kind of like, frustrated. So and so your colleague is going to do the thing for you. So that can be that, you know, we can see like the anxiety piece, definitely playing out and the challenge, like making independent decisions, but then we can also see this other element of, well, someone's going to do it for me. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 51:03
know, I've done and I know, I've mentioned this before, but I steadfastly when my kids were playing sports, if they looked hurt. Like, it's it. Listen, it sounds like a joke. But a kid gets hurt on a baseball field. Every mom stands right up. And dad, and every dad sits there. It's like, oh, they're probably alright. And like, and the one time it happened to my son, and eventually happened Arden to Kelly's like, go help him. And I was like, Kelly, if he's hurt, he'll still be hurt a minute from now. I was like, but if he's not hurt, what we're going to screw up by running out there is far worse than the pain he's gonna feel for the next minute before we can go home. Like we have to let this play out. You know, and don't get me wrong. It wasn't even look at you get shot in the head or something. But like it was it was bad. He went down, he was hurt. And he got up and he pulled himself together. And he kept going. Now, if he's laying on the ground, and before he even knows if he's hurt or not his mom's running towards him, then that's how he's wired from then on. And I also kind of steadfastly believe that when you're raising children, you don't lead them. When you're talking to them. You don't ask them leading questions. Are you hurt? You look hurt. Don't say that. Because then they're gonna go, Yes, I'm hurt. It's just how it goes, you know? Like, don't tell them they're not okay. I don't know. Does that make sense? Like, like, you know what, I mean, people follow your lead sometimes. And I'm not just saying Say you're okay, when you're, you know, you're famous second out is that you're fine. Like, you're not, you're not fine. Right, but like, but don't lead them to believing that they're weak. You know what I mean? And then once, and once there's an actual problem, it's not weakness, it's an accident. It's you don't I mean, like, there's no, there's just, there's certain words in there and phrasings and timing that are really important to avoid these things from happening, I think.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:55
Yes, I think it's, it's obviously, developmentally. But there's different different things you want to do, depending on where your child is in their development. I think as a young, newborn young child, you want them to know that they are going to be safe and cared for if a child falls and scrapes their knee. Some of these are maybe two different stereotypes. You have the parents say, Oh, you're fine, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine, right? Come on, come on, come on, let's go. Or you have a child. Oh, my parent. Oh, my goodness. Let's go. Let's walk home. Let's stop the thing. Let's, we're gonna go, you know, you mustn't really hurt. Right? So there is that fine line of the validation piece? I hear, you know, you don't want to put words into their mouth. But sometimes the children would have the words but giving enough giving the validation without dismissing or exaggerating, yeah, incredibly

Scott Benner 53:52
fine line. Like, if you take a baby and pretend to be sad, you can make a baby cry. I got upset earlier, it made you upset. Like, like, so that happens, right? But so there's the line. Like, I don't want to like freak the kid out by telling them I think I'm I'm worried you should be worried too. And you also don't want them to think that it's a callous situation where they're hurt. And you're just like, whatever. It's okay. It's a it's a it's a case by case decision. You have to make that and you have to kind of make them snap, you know, snap judgment. I always my thought was just like, look 30 more seconds to make sure she's really hurt before we go out on that field is neither here nor there. But if you run out there, and she's okay, you're gonna I mean, I don't know what it is when you do it to a girl, but it's emasculating. Like, you know, like, what is that word? What does an escalation mean? Can you emasculate a woman? Ah, oh, I found a word. I don't know. Let's look it up.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:47
Sorry. I think that's it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:53
Is emasculation something that you can only do to uh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:58
yeah, we're getting we're getting into you know, Different, what is your gender identity? And how do you present? And then? I'm not sure.

Scott Benner 55:06
Is there a more generalized word, I guess is what I was wondering. I'll figure it out. That's what I was wondering like, is there a more generalized word for that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:16
While you're looking, shall we move for the sake of time into our strategies? Okay. So talking about, you know, we now understand what are some of the what does it look like to have be inconsistent in our discipline and following rules, being an over involved parent? And so what are some strategies that we can implement, to maybe hopefully avoid some of these negative outcomes, and we already you already kind of alluded to the set reinforced double rules, right? So we, we want to, and we and again, we might not know what the rules will be like we can enforce on a consistent basis. So it's okay to redact and correct and edit and adjust. Use reasoning, instead of empty threats. So if a child or a teen is not following the rule, to again, I know this is hard to do. Because we have to be in our own, you know, grounded place ourselves as a parent to enter into a conversation and of explaining why is this not working for you? This is the rule. This is how we have to make it work. Instead of empty threats. I was taught this in a parenting class, when I first became a parent, where you're at, you're at the playground, and the child's not listening, you're saying, Come on, you need to go do this, or do that or don't do this. And then you say, Well, if you don't stop doing that, we're gonna leave the park. And this parenting educator said, No, do you? Do you really want to leave the park? Like, are you are you really gonna leave the park? And oftentimes, like, No, we don't want to leave the park. Like we're there. We have all the things are with our friends. And even in those younger years, the child will learn Oh, you know what? I did it that one more time. And we didn't leave the park. Yeah. And so that, that has sat with me now. They they will learn and I think the hardest part is when you make that really extreme that it's because you've you've done all the things we talked about originally is like you've it's everything, you've escalated, the child's behavior is becoming really aggressive. you're responding in a really aggressive way, everything, the whole situation is escalated. So you're like, if you don't do this thing, rather, we're not going to the party, or we're leaving the party or whatever.

Scott Benner 57:27
I think everybody comes to the moment where they make that read that resolution there. And then they're like, oh, I have to follow through now. Yeah. And you're like, Oh, I screwed myself. We're actually leaving. I said this thing I have to follow through if I don't, then you're gonna get all that I've had that happen to me. I was like I overreached. And now I'm end up doing a thing I don't want to do because I have to, because I said I was going to, and yeah, that's unpleasant at all. What about no favoritism between children? This

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:58
goes back to kind of you know, this the sibling, if rules are different or applied differently. So let's say you have no there's no playdates for children after school. And then you're feeling lenient, or you actually really need a, you know, for whatever reason, you're like, okay, just this one time, but it's for Johnny and not Susie, that doesn't work. That doesn't work. So just trying to be really consistent and the, how you apply the rules for both children? I know we've talked about that a little bit already. And

Scott Benner 58:33
yes, you have links here you want to share with people you want to tell them? Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:36
so I think a lot of this information came from parenting for brain.com. Also, in previous episodes, I love the child MIND Institute, child mind.org. There are some great links and articles on a lot of this information that we're talking about. And I think one of the last tips that I think we'll get into in the next episode is to try your best to not contradict the other parent. And to as much as you can connect, communicate with the other parent, if there is one in the household. And that will communicate to your children that the rules are clear. And they are you are being consistent in how you follow through with those rules when they're when they're broken.

Scott Benner 59:20
What about when they're wrong. We'll talk about the next one. The next episodes about co parenting and unified fronts. I cannot wait to tell you all the stories I have of my wife and I disagree. So and agreeing and how I've learned to say things like your mom's right. And here's why. Or I think this is why mom feels this way. I get what your concern is here. I gotta be honest with you. I might be on your side of this. But here's what she's saying. If you try to see it from her perspective, I think you'll see what she's saying is reasonable like that stuff took time to learn. So, but anyway, I appreciate you doing that and I will let you go with this idea it looks like that imagine you learn a masculine it just seems like it might be an old word. So then when they first made it, the first word was first used, it was like, you know, to, to deprive of strength, vigor or spirit or to weaken. That's what it means. But it was. Also it also meant castrate. So I think it became a word that was, I wonder if you look back, if no one ever thought you that women had strength, vigor, spirit or strength to begin with, and so you couldn't take I wonder how like old fashioned the word is, like the I don't know what the Entomology of it is. All I know is I wanted to talk about Arden and say that you didn't want to take away, you didn't want to weaken her. Like you didn't want to deprive her of spirit, like these are all things I would have said but a mask that popped into my head and then I was like, Is that appropriate? Like for that gender? And I was like, I don't know. And anyway, that's where that led us to. So I'm gonna have to figure out if there's a word, if there's a word for genders, or if it's just a, like a unisex word, or, or if there's a different or better one. Anyway, I'm gonna find out. Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:05
sure, sure. Next Oh,

Scott Benner 1:01:09
all right. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. You're

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:11
welcome. Thanks. Bye

Scott Benner 1:01:21
as always, Erica is terrific. Find her at Erica forsythe.com. She can help you in I think five different states and she sees people in person in California. You can find out everything at Erica forsyth.com. I want to thank us med. Sincerely. I want to thank us med sincerely for being a steadfast and longtime sponsor the Juicebox Podcast we in fact do get Arden's supplies from us, man, and I believe you would have a good time. If you did as well. It's very easy. I love how easy the reordering is. I sincerely think you should give them a try us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 If you enjoyed this episode, it's part of a series go back in your player and find the rest of them they're called parenting and then you know the rest of the scription you should be able to find them no trouble. I also believe there's a list of these episodes in the feature tab at the Juicebox Podcast, Facebook group, the private group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes up in the feature tab you should find lists of this series and actually all the series that are involved in the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1078 Mountain House

Kim has type 1 diabetes, a brain tumor and a story about her dad.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1078 of the Juicebox Podcast

Okay, guys, I've got a great episode here for you. It's it's two episodes and one honestly, today's guest is Kim. She's had type one diabetes for 32 years, we're gonna talk about her type one where she lives, a benign tumor that was found in her brain. It's a fantastic episode. But then about an hour into it. Kim tells me something that is just oh my gosh, what do you hear? While you're listening? Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. I'm going to be saying this for a little bit because Apple really kind of screwed bus with this new podcast app. So if you've upgraded to iOS 17, you want to go into the podcast app, go to your library, touch Juicebox Podcast top right corner, three dots, then Settings, then scroll to automatically download and then go to the bottom all new episodes. Apple podcast changed their app and you may not be getting the podcast because of it. Hopefully you've heard this and you've made an adjustment. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med. Now us med is where we get our diabetes supplies from and you can too as a matter of fact, later in the ad, I'm going to tell you about an email we just received from us med for now. Go to us med.com/juice box or call this special number just for Juicebox Podcast listeners 888-721-1514 When you go to the link, or call the number, you get yourself a free benefits check so that you can get started getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med. The podcast is also sponsored today by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. You want accuracy. Well, then you want the contour next gen contour next.com/juicebox Hey, Kim. Hi. How are you?

Kim 2:22
Good. How are you doing?

Scott Benner 2:24
My wife yelled at me a little bit this morning because I didn't come downstairs let the dogs out fast enough. But other than that I'm doing great. Excellent. Yes. Good. I told her what I said 16 years ago when you said I think the kids need a dog. I said no. Don't do that. I'm now today 16 years later, you're yelling at me because of the bad decision you made 16 years ago. But okay. I said that Ken dog is never gonna die. He understands. He's been alive for 16 years. That's That's an old dog. That's definitely it doesn't seem that old some days. So, anyway, yeah, she did not care for that answer. But I'm right. And I'm leaving that in our episode for posterity sake. Not to buy a dog. Literally and figuratively. He's never really bitten us. But it's been it's been descending. Yes, a number of times along the way. I love I want to be clear Kim. Love the dog. absolutely terrific. And if in the evenings when I went to sleep, or if I had to go away this weekend for work, which I have to do, or you know, at 630 in the morning, when he doesn't feel well, if somebody else was taking care of them at this point. Like if I was a Kardashian or something, for instance. Then this would be terrific. But this is an Instagram. And no, it is life. Yeah, exactly. Right. So Anywho. Kim, do you have a pair of headphones?

Kim 3:57
I am wearing headphones. Excellent.

Scott Benner 3:59
Is there like a little arm thing on them for the microphone? Or is it hanging on

Kim 4:03
your wire? It hangs on the wire.

Scott Benner 4:05
No problem. Are you in a room without carpeting?

Kim 4:11
Well, I'm laughing because I was just going to do this at my regular desk, but it's very windy here today and we live at 9700 feet. And so the house shakes and especially that garage room that I would have been in Savannah and a tiny closet and I brought in a bunch of pillows.

Scott Benner 4:30
Sounds a tiny bit hollow and I'm trying to figure out but I want to get back to the house shaking part but I'm trying to figure out if maybe that wire just needs to be a little closer to your mouth or moved it closer to Iraq. Or if it's just the spacer and I this is gonna sound crazy. Crack the door to the closet.

Kim 4:46
Okay

Scott Benner 4:50
give me some more words.

Kim 4:52
Okay, I opened the door.

Scott Benner 4:54
I like that better. Okay, all right. You're really in a closet. KIM Yeah, So like, I

Kim 5:00
knew that you are very, like, specific about how things sound. So I was like, He's not gonna like all the wind in the background and garage door shaking. So I need to find a different place to be. I

Scott Benner 5:11
see people put this on, by the way we've begun, people put this on me. But if you were listening to the podcast, no, I know. I

Kim 5:19
appreciate that about you and your podcasts. Because if the sound is like, grading, I will just start Listen,

Scott Benner 5:26
of course, well, no, I swear to you. I used to say it all the time. Somebody could say, hey, on this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, we have the secret to life at 36 minutes in but you can't skip forward. And you have to listen to the rest of it. If a garage door sort of banging around, I'd be like I'm doing okay. I don't need the secret to life. Nevermind. Yeah. So yes, yesterday, I interviewed a person. So interesting. I interviewed a person whose father is really famous. But she didn't want anyone to know that. And so the whole time, I was like, Come on, let's talk about it for five seconds. But we never did it. It was fine. But not the point. The point is, they had a really great microphone setup. And as soon as she came on, I could feel my whole body relax. I was like, Oh, she's got a great mic. It's quiet in there. It's great. I said one thing I don't have to worry about while I'm talking to her. So anyway. Okay. Again, usually, I would have told you before this started, like, you know, is there anything you're concerned about? Do you have any questions or anything you want to say? So I'm just going to ask you that while we're recording. Anything you need to know worried about? No, I'm good. Okay. Are you nervous? Not really. Excellent. Usually, I would tell you to introduce yourself. But your Kim, I think we've gone over that a couple of times. Yes, type one. I did. And I know you've had it since 1991. So I'm just gonna throw that in there. And we'll do the math together. 2000 I

Kim 6:49
did it last night to practice 32 years.

Scott Benner 6:51
Kim. I was gonna I was gonna teach people how to count as in 2001 and 2011 than 2021. Now it's 2023. So 2122 23, it's 32 years.

Kim 7:06
And it was the APR 1991. So we are actually only completed that year.

Scott Benner 7:12
32 years. On the button. Yeah. All right. All right. That's fine. Sounds good. Been a lot of fun. Has it? Sorry.

Kim 7:21
Oh, you know, I don't know. I mean, there's that whole thing where it's like, I don't know what my life would have been like without it. And but I do kind of think in ways it has been better for it. I mean, I don't want it but I know. Like, it's basically made me who I am. So it's hard to say.

Scott Benner 7:38
Are you saying it's like exercise?

Kim 7:41
I don't know what that analogy would be. You

Scott Benner 7:43
don't want to do it. But when you do exercise? What is wrong with you? You know, it's funny, I was gonna say something that would have been inappropriate based on something you're gonna say in the future, but I'm gonna jot it down. So I can remind people after it comes out how I almost said something very, I think would have been hilarious, but then would have been appropriate. Anyway. Okay. Okay, so Kip, so you're diagnosed and how old because how old are you now?

Kim 8:11
My birthday is next month, so I was eight, almost nine years old. Oh,

Scott Benner 8:15
wow. So you're, you're gonna be 4041 41. Wow, that exciting. Sad. How do you feel about

Kim 8:22
that? Um, it's fine. I don't really feel any different. So I don't worry about it too much.

Scott Benner 8:28
I think that too. Even when I hear people are like, Oh, I'm so upset. This is happening or that's happening. I always think well, you're alive. That's how you got to be 41. Alternative. You died before you were 41. I don't want that right now. I know. Everybody wants to live forever. But that's not happening. So not yet. No, no. Give me a lot of Musk's more time. Kim. Why do you live at the top of a mountain in a rickety house?

Kim 8:58
It's actually a brand new house. Okay. We are living in Denver for a while now. And then we decided to move up into the mountains. So now we live about an hour west of Denver on the top of the mountain.

Scott Benner 9:11
We are afraid that the government was gonna find your weed grows so you had to go higher. No, no. Okay. So are you skiers?

Kim 9:19
No, we're not. We're hiking and snowshoeing and biking. That kind of stuff.

Scott Benner 9:26
Are there wild animals where you are? Yes, I

Kim 9:29
haven't seen any yet but there's potential for bears, mountain lions, coyotes, deer, all that stuff. Better house

Scott Benner 9:38
just too easy cam and you were like let's level up.

Kim 9:42
Yes, also the house is completely off the grid. We have a well we have a septic system and solar panels and a propane backup generator. Or, you know, I feel like it but no, this is just how this house was Still, okay,

Scott Benner 10:00
so you, somebody come into some money and you're like, let's upgrade now been working hard your whole life. How did this

Kim 10:09
happen? Well, we were thinking of building a house in the mountains. And then we found this house on Zillow and then came up here to talk to the guy. And we're and so it has an amazing view that that's the thing being on top of the mountain, we can see like the entire, like, the Continental Divide and the Rocky Mountains. And so we're not like, so we're still not quite far enough West that we're like, in the Rocky Mountains, right like range legitimately. So like, we can see them from our house versus if because like, if you're living in them, you can't see them because you're in them. So we're still out far enough like in the foothills, to to see all the mountains so the view was a million dollar view. So we went for it.

Scott Benner 10:55
This man you breezed over? Did you feed into a bear and just take his house? How did that go? No, he

Kim 11:01
was the builder and the listing agent.

Scott Benner 11:05
You're like there was a man, then there was no more talking to him. I was like, they killed him. today's podcast is also sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is an incredibly accurate meter. And you want accuracy. Contour next one.com/juice box, find out all about the Second Chance test strips, the fantastic meter, the easy to read screen, the beautiful form factor that fits right into your hand. This meter is the bee's knees, it is incredibly accurate. And not every meter is. So don't just run around with whatever busted up meter somebody handed to you out of a drawer or a closet or because that's the sales guy they like the most. Look into meters get good meters. As a matter of fact, when you go to contour, next one.com/juicebox You may find that the contour meter and its test strips are less expensive for you out of pocket and cash than you're paying now for what could be a lesser meter through your insurance. Check it out. Links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com To contour us Med and all of the sponsors. No. So, okay, well, that sounds lovely. Can I ask you a question? How long have you been there?

Kim 12:24
Two months.

Scott Benner 12:25
All right. So I'm gonna ask a difficult question. Okay. You've been there long enough now to have buyer's remorse. What about it? Are you like, uh, I overlooked that.

Kim 12:35
I'm actually I'm surprised because I thought there'd be more of an issue with being like 45 to an hour minutes from Denver now because I still need to go back there to get like my allergy shots and stuff. But overall, that hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be. So and we also have to drive up this like dirt road with that's really rutted and muddy sometimes. And that was kind of stressful, but we got a new car. So that's better now and so honestly, I don't have buyer's remorse at I am a little bit stressed about

Scott Benner 13:11
that. Nice Kim new house, new car, there's like 18 cents left in your bank account. And you're like, we don't have to eat this week. And I hear you're in the woods, but you need allergy shots would it have not been a good idea to move away from the woods?

Kim 13:27
I don't think I'm allergic to the woods as much as I am the animals in my own house.

Scott Benner 13:33
I don't want to make like a simple suggestion. But have you considered opening the door and letting them out?

Kim 13:39
No, that's not what you're supposed to do when you have dogs and cats. All right,

Scott Benner 13:42
Kim, you and I talked at the beginning. I am at the point now where I'm willing to let my dog walk away. I like just like put a little stick on it was in dog food and a bandana and like stick it his collar and be like guy, man, good luck. Like we've been together long enough. Now I want to divorce my dog is what I'm saying. Oh, really? I just didn't want him to live 16 years. It's funny. I didn't want him to live 16 years 16 years ago and now I don't I don't I don't know what a fake anymore.

Kim 14:12
Is he a smaller dog? I assume that's why he sold No,

Scott Benner 14:16
he weighs like, I mean at his at his best when he was in full vigor. You don't I mean, but he could have made a lady pregnant back then. He was like 55 pounds. Oh, I'm surprised. Okay. Yeah, now he's just old. He's thinner now. And gray. That's the weirdest thing. Your dogs get gray hair. No one tells you that.

Kim 14:35
Oh, I didn't know that before we got our visualise and they get like people call it sugar face and then their face turns white and we're a little freaked out about

Scott Benner 14:45
that. Do people call it coke face but your nice thing enough for me. They call it shook. Okay, I don't know like it's just it's weird seeing them get older in their face that Keith the key got thinner. You get that like the little hard nose thing happened to him. like you take him to the vet and the vet sec, how in DISA live and you're like, Yeah, what's up? And? Yeah, I mean, it's all like, even our kennel, which I don't think we use maybe twice a year, but we've been using them forever. They're wonderful people. Absolutely great. Last time I was there, they were like, You got to stop you can't bring into here anymore. And I was like, why? And she goes, he's just so old. And I'm like, All right. So you know what I had to do? Kim, I had to find a kennel with less morals. And they take him no problem, but because I because I still had to move my daughter into college like I wasn't going to do like, just leave them at home. Tell them good luck. Yeah. I mean, so anyway, how many dogs do you have? How many cats how many parents what's in that house making this nice? Well,

Kim 15:44
we have two dogs now and one cat. But this all started a long time ago. We had three cats. And no dogs.

Scott Benner 15:52
Kim Kim, three cats. We had three cats at one time. Yes. What are you doing? You're starting an army a cat. So you got bored of it? Or why three? Well, how does that happen?

Kim 16:02
Okay, so we had one cat that we got when we were in college. And then we got a second cat like a year later. And then they got older together. And then we got the third cat when they were about 10 or 11. Because we needed to be able to cycle through animals, like so that we weren't left with no animals. And that was that was the plan as laid out by my husband. And so then the middle cat died. And then we had the two cats. And then when the oldest cat died, then he got a dog in 2020 People

Scott Benner 16:38
hippies or something? What's going on? Like, just don't? Oh, no, not a hippie? I don't think so. Alright, you don't think so? I my son this years ago, my son's a freshman in college. He calls up and he goes, kid down the hall got a chinchilla in his room. Okay, when are you allowed to do that? And he goes, No, we are not allowed to do that. And so they hid that that animal for like he the kid hid that animal for like a year and a half. I don't know. Alright, so diabetes. Hmm, I guess the obvious question here around type one is, did you have any concerns moving such to such a rural place?

Kim 17:15
I didn't. Because I haven't had to call the emergency people in a long time like it not since I was a kid. Like, I haven't had to use a glucagon since I was a kid. My parents, on the other hand, were like, how are you going to live up there? They're going to an hour to hospital. And I was like, well, actually, the neighbors the lowest, what is an emergency room doctor and the other is a rheumatologist. So there is medical professionals nearby. It's just it would be a while to get to the hospital. But no, generally, I wasn't worried because like with decks calm and everything now like, I just don't worry about that being an issue. And otherwise I don't I can't think of any other emergencies that could happen.

Scott Benner 17:59
Do you work? I do out of the house where?

Kim 18:02
Yeah, we both work from home. I'm a CPA. Oh, oh, I

Scott Benner 18:06
have so many questions about that. But don't worry. I'll ask I'll ask them later. People are like do not ask her accounting questions before you talk to her about her diabetes. So I guess I kind of want to like, there's an elephant in the room, as far as I'm concerned, because I can see your little intake questionnaire. I'm almost embarrassed to say that last night, my wife's like, do you record tomorrow? I said, Yeah, tomorrow at 10 o'clock, with a lady who has type one. And she had a benign brain tumor. And my wife goes, Why do you sound excited by that? I'm like, doesn't that's like, doesn't that sound interesting? And she's probably not to hurt. I was like, No, I know. But to me, I think it's gonna be very interesting. So how old were you when that happened? How did that present?

Kim 18:44
So it was I was 26. And I had a ringing in my ear just that one year. And I didn't really have any other explanations for why that would happen. Because I don't listen to loud music or go to concerts or anything. We had moved to Washington, DC, pretty near about that time, and I got a new endocrinologist. And then it was like my first appointment with him. And he was like, Do you have any other concerns? And I was like, well, this isn't like for you, but like, I have this ringing in my ear. And so then he gave me the name of en t doctor in the building and said to go see him.

Scott Benner 19:28
And he's talks to you, and then decides to image your brain.

Kim 19:34
Yeah, so I got lucky because that doesn't always happen. So I did go to the end. And then first he did a hearing test. And I had some hearing loss in that year that I hadn't noticed. And so then he knew that something was going on. And luckily he then ordered an MRI and then we saw the tumor. Wow.

Scott Benner 19:59
and tell the people it's catnip, right? It got in your ears and in your head. How does that have any any of that in your family line? Anything like that? Oh, no. So

Kim 20:13
it is there is a way that it could be more of a hereditary thing when it's called neurofibromatosis. neurofibroma, I don't know ptosis to, that's when it is more of a hereditary thing. And it's like, it happens more in younger people. And you have like tumors all along the nerves in your body. And so they were a little concerns that that could be what I had because I was on the younger side. Usually, you don't get diagnosed with this until you're like in your 50s or 60s. And so that I did have some additional imaging done of my spine and to look for tumors there, but I didn't have any so it was just the regular one. So there's a couple of names for it. It's colloquially called the acoustic neuroma. But it's also like more medically accurate to call it a vestibular schwannoma Hmm,

Scott Benner 21:09
it also sounds more fun that way.

Kim 21:12
Yes, okay. Um, so then, yeah, so there Yeah, I had no reason to think I would ever end up with one of these. Right.

Scott Benner 21:19
Wow. And how, like, what did it measure? How big was it? For over two years we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med. Us med.com/juice box are called 888-721-1514. Arden gets her on the pod and Dexcom supplies from us med but they have so much more. They accept Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers with an A plus rating from the Better Business Bureau. You're gonna love us med. They always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and they have fast and free shipping. They're gonna carry everything for you from your insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, the latest CGM, they have it if you need it. Us med.com/juice box you want to FreeStyle Libre two or three? They got it? Dexcom six or seven? They have it you want on the pod five? Check. They got that to Omri pod dash. T slim. They have what you want us med.com/juice box get your free benefits check right now prefer the phone 887211514 We received an email two days ago from us med that it was time to re plan. What we're going to refresh. Oh Dexcom supplies. I didn't respond to the email. So a couple days later, we got a phone call. I picked up the phone. Hey, this is us, man. It's like a recording. Do you want your supplies to come press one. I press one that was it done. The time before we use them. I use the email. I click Yeah, come on, send some more supplies. And they were on their way. It couldn't be easier. Us med.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com.

Kim 22:57
One and a half by centimeters by one and a half centimeters by like a little bit more than one and a half centimeters I think at that point. And so where it is is so the reason it gets a stain as acoustic neuroma is because a lot of the time it does present with hearing issues. And that's where the acoustic part of it comes from. But the Y the actual name of it being vestibular schwannoma is what that means is there's a schwannoma, which is a benign tumor on your vestibular nerve, which is your balance nerve. And so in your brain there, the hearing nerve, the balance nerve, and your facial nerve are all bundled together and they go into your brain, like through your ear canal, not your canal. But like in your brain. There's a passageway that these three nerves go through to get to the where they're coming from, and then to your brain. And so, so that a lot of the time because the tumor is growing on the balance nerve, it will affect the hearing nerve and the facial nerve. And so that's that's the lay of the land there. Wow.

Scott Benner 24:04
And for you, it was just it was ringing at first. Yes, yes. Then

Kim 24:11
well, then no, nothing else really. which was surprising, because I later found out what other things can feel like when you have your other nerves having issues. But at that time, no, no, I did not.

Scott Benner 24:24
So I want to move on to find out more. But first, I want to say that I thought you were trying to screw with me earlier when you said colloquial and I was like Is she gonna say curricula and colloquial in the same couple of minutes? Because that's gonna throw me off if that happens. And then he confused you did not say that, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. Anyway, here come the emails and say I have ADHD. Wow, that's crazy. Was it in any? I guess my question is it doesn't sound like it was life threatening, right?

Kim 24:55
No, no, no, it was not. So that's the thing they say So there's an acoustic neuroma Association and you can go, so I went to like a support group in DC that had people going to it and a lot of it. So the first question they asked you is like, are you watching weight? Or are you like decided on a treatment plan, which would either be surgery or radiation. And a lot of the time, they recommend that you watch and wait, just to see like, is it growing? Like, maybe it's been there. And it's just like, that's how big it's going to be. It's not going to get any better, which a lot of the time is what happens with older people. Because it is very slow growing tumor. And it's almost like they're going to die from things other than like, they wouldn't die from this. But like, there's no point in treating it if it's just slow growing, and they're already old. Don't

Scott Benner 25:47
worry, your McDonald's fries are gonna get you before this does. Yeah, great.

Kim 25:51
Yeah. So that then in my situation being 26, they were like, Yeah, we're probably going to do something. But let's see, like how quickly it's growing. So then I waited a couple of months, and then yet another MRI and it had gotten bigger in that time. So it seemed pretty clear that we should do something before it got even bigger. Okay,

Scott Benner 26:09
so it has to be removed physically, they art is this, how does this happen? It's

Kim 26:17
a rare tumor. Like if you go on Google, it's like one of those things that comes up. And it's like rare. So, which is why I like to say I'm probably the only person who's had this tumor and type one diabetes. You

Scott Benner 26:35
tried to get on television, Kim, what's going on? No, I

Kim 26:37
just think it's funny, like the intersection of that anyway,

Scott Benner 26:40
I do to actually, I'm always like, my brain gets fried. But I'm like somebody comes on. And they have six incredibly rare issues. Yeah. Oh, my God, that's just like, the oddest luck, you know?

Kim 26:54
Yeah. Because it's rare, you have to go to a place like a hospital that with doctors who do this a lot, in order to like, get a good result. Because it's a very small space that they are working in, especially if they're going to be doing surgery to physically remove it. Because it's just, it's a very, very tiny space in your head. At the time, like I said, we were living in Washington, DC. So I went up to Johns Hopkins, and met with doctors there, oh, first time that with doctors at Georgetown, because that was nearest and then went up to Hopkins. And then there's also a, like standalone kind of clinic Hospital in LA that does this a lot, held the house ear clinic. And so I also sent my stuff to them to look at to give me like a third opinion. So like, this is the sort of thing where like it can, because it is slow growing, you don't need to rush into anything. And you should get multiple opinions from different doctors about a treatment plan. Because, like, you don't want to have to do it more than once. And there's just a lot of options. But it's also a lot to decide.

Scott Benner 28:11
Yeah, I was gonna say, because what happens? I mean, it's like if I go to three people and say, What color do I paint my garage? And somebody goes purple, someone says read and someone says blue, you're like, Oh, is that how it goes? Or what are they pretty similar?

Kim 28:25
It can be. So a lot of the time, if you go to a person who does surgery, like physical surgery, they're gonna recommend that option because that's what they know, if you go to a radiation specialist, they're going to recommend that because that's what they know. Luckily, in my situation, being as young as I was, even the radiation specialist said, I should do surgery because there hadn't been enough time with like, you know, seeing what happens to people who had radiation, you know, 40 years later, there hasn't been enough of that, for them to be confident in recommending that to someone who's 26.

Scott Benner 29:06
You got the I'm not going to kill you answer. Yeah. So,

Kim 29:10
so everyone recommended that I do surgery. So that was that made that easier to decide that part. And then it was like, Where do I want to do it? And then I did end up having that done to at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

Scott Benner 29:22
That's good hospital. So kinda like you're in that part of the country. I guess when that happened. Yeah. How long did it take you to figure out what to do?

Kim 29:32
The diagnosis was like in August 2008. And that I had the surgery in February 2009. And I had decided to do that probably by Thanksgiving,

Scott Benner 29:44
and the time living with it. I'm super interested in the psychological aspect of this, like, do you have that there's something in my brain feeling or does it not? Go like that?

Kim 29:56
I so I kind of there's a situation like this Probably from living with diabetes for a long time, at that point already, like, you know, you just kind of roll with it. Like I named the tumor I named it Manny. And so like my co workers, and I would like talk about Manny, like, how are you feeling about Manny? And I'm like, I'm gonna go like, evict Vanie what I was going to go get surgery done, you know, so it's just like, you just kind of like, go with it. And I didn't get too overwhelmed or upset because it was like a research project then. And I like research projects. And

Scott Benner 30:36
it Kim's like, it gave me something to do.

Kim 30:41
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, so I didn't get too overwhelmed or upset. And I just kind of, you know, went with it.

Scott Benner 30:48
You're married at that point? Yeah. Okay. Not a lot for your spouse to do.

Kim 30:54
No, he listened but, and helped make decisions. But he, you know, left it more up to me, because he's sort of, he doesn't want to take responsibility for other people's decisions. So like, he'll offer input, but like, ultimately, it needs to be up to the person making the decision. Yeah. He doesn't like telling people what to do.

Scott Benner 31:17
Does he not like getting yelled at later? Or does he not like,

Kim 31:22
I don't? Well, probably both. But I think it's more like he doesn't want to feel guilty later. If someone it's interesting. Like what happened? Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:29
no, that's very interesting. Did you know, of course, you would have no way of knowing this game. But when I was very, very young, and Kelly and I were only married for a few years, this opportunity came up to buy the house that we live in now. And it was at the time, a great piece of property and a really the house. And so the price was right. And I said, you know, we could sell our condo and make, you know, we can make some money. Our condo appreciated crazy. Like the first year we lived in it for reasons I still don't understand like it by the way, and the price went like right back down again. Like we somehow just took a bunch of money out of it laughed, and then people were like, they're not really worth that much. I was like too late. We're going. And so anyway, yep, years later. And I mean, years later, my wife says, I didn't want to buy this house. And I was like, what you could have mentioned that years ago, and she's like, now you seemed like something you wanted to do. And that's what it made me think of when you said that about your husband like, like, like, what if like I didn't, by the way I had no, it never occurred to me that that's how she felt. Yeah. And so was really interesting. And we've talked about that more. As, as times gone on, not just here, but I've heard about on the podcast, and people talking about how sometimes it's interesting. People can feel unheard, and not say anything. And the person who has a more I don't know what like, like, defined position can say like, Oh, I think we should paint the garage blue. And you're standing there thinking, I don't think we should do that. But you don't say anything. I think you agree. And you think I don't listen to you. Such an interesting thing.

Kim 33:22
Yeah, I have to be careful with that with like my husband. Yeah. So we've been married since 2006. And together since 2001. So it's been a long time. And this has been a thing that has developed is, I think a lot of the time like, so we're very both very independent. But like, there's certain things that each of us care about more than the other one. So a lot of the time, like, if it's something that he cares a lot about, and I don't have a strong opinion, then I'll just go with what he wants. But if there is something about it that I'm like, I don't think we should then I will say that. But then so I think it works out because then we aren't we don't not say something when we do feel something but generally we just let the other person who cares more. Do the thing that they care for. Have

Scott Benner 34:09
you ever done the thing where nobody speaks up? And you're 35 minutes into a movie or a meal or something and you realize no one wants to be there. I think that's hilarious. When that happens. You're like wait,

Kim 34:21
yeah, definitely hasn't with movies. Yeah, we're was like, like, halfway into it. Like is this is pretty bad. And

Scott Benner 34:27
you're like, but you want to come? You want it to come? Yeah, so Okay, so how did they get that? How did they get money out of your head? Through your ear? They go through your nose, your eyeball socket? Well, what do you do?

Kim 34:43
There are different options. So I had the retros sigmoid approach, which is when they go through like the base of your skull of the back of your neck behind your ear. So he like So another option would be to go through the ear, but then you are automatically losing your hearing that way. And I still had pretty good hearing in that side, it was my left side. By the way, we haven't said that yet. It's my left ear. So we didn't go with that approach. And then there is like an overlay over the top of the ear. I felt what that one's called. But we didn't do that one either. Because of where the tumor was located, it wouldn't get a good angle. So we went in from the back the bottom back. And so they drilled a hole in my skull. And then they, I don't know, move some stuff out of the way. And went in there, behind my ear and removed the tuba. How long does that take? It took a very long time. I think I was in surgery for like 10 hours. Holy

Scott Benner 35:51
Christ. Wow. Was Derek Shepherd there. From Grey's Anatomy Derek Shepherd. Renowned brain surgeon. I've never watched. Stop. What do you highfalutin? You got big ideas? That's crazy. 10 and a half hours? Did you feel like what's the recovery? Like?

Kim 36:12
It was a lot. So I woke up and I felt okay, like, I wasn't really ever in a lot of pain. But obviously, they're giving me pain meds and steroids, which when you have type one diabetes is a problem. And I think I was like, so that was an ICU. And then, so then a bunch of like, crazy stuff happened. So this is where like, the story gets more interesting, really.

Scott Benner 36:43
Fascinating. But there's more. Yeah.

Kim 36:46
It turned out. I lost my hearing in that side. So like, that was kind of a bummer. But I've adapted. We can talk more about that later. Yeah, so but then, okay, so I woke up and I'm an ICU and my husband and my parents are there and then then they leave, I don't know. It's like, the later that night, and then it's a little bit later, and I wake up and I'm being shuttled on a gurney, through this green hallway, this darker green hallway. And I'm like, what is happening? And they're like, we're taking you to get a CT scan. And I'm like, what's going on? And so apparently, I had been like, obviously, I had been intubated while I was under general anesthesia. And then I think they had on disk, I don't know, taking the tube out. But then I developed breathing problems later that night. And so they are taking need for a scan to see if there is something physically wrong. In side of me. I don't know where exactly. So then I got like, re intubated. But I didn't need it to like breathe for me. They just put it into like, hold open the airway.

Scott Benner 38:12
Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

Kim 38:15
So that was kind of scary, because I was still like, kind of out of it. And then I just remember the greed hallway. And then so I think I was worried that I was wearing my insulin pump, and that they were taking me to get a scan. And I was like, the insulin pump can't go in the scanner, you know, like, they're like, looking at me like I'm a crazy person. And because I am not wearing an insulin pump, and why am I talking about that to them? And I just remember that and they were all kind of annoyed

Scott Benner 38:45
by that. They're probably like, Lady your airways closing, we don't prioritize, shall we?

Kim 38:51
The next day, my husband comes back to the hospital and he's like, what's going on? And they're like, We they didn't call you last night? He's like, No. And they're like, Oh, well, she cuz she stopped breathing. He was like, Why didn't anyone call me?

Scott Benner 39:07
I love married people. He's like, Yeah, she'll be fine. I'll go home, though. It's no big deal. He

Kim 39:12
couldn't stay there. Anytime to take care of the cats.

Scott Benner 39:18
I'm trying to get to these animals. Everyone in the whole thing. By the way, I want people to give me credit right now for every time you say the word hearing, I don't go What's that? Because I there's a five year old inside of me that wants to pretend I can't hear as a joke every time someone brings up hearing and I hold it inside. Okay, so thank you.

Kim 39:40
Yeah, that'd be a lot.

Scott Benner 39:41
Oh my god. It would be it'd be like a drinking game. Like you know, and, and I didn't know you lost your hearing from this when we started. Yeah, yeah, I did my gosh. And it's like, is it gone? Gone? Like there's any percentage of it?

Kim 39:56
Um, no. So there's the The hearing nerve got destroyed in the process of removing the tumor that was wrapped around the all the nerves there. So they did, they cut the balance nerve because it's easier to adapt afterwards if you have no balance there versus a damaged valance nerve, and then the hearing nerve, they tried to preserve it, but it was only a wisp by the end of it. And so I lost, I lost my hearing and like a hearing aid doesn't help or even like a cochlear implant like that would not help because there is no nerve from which to derive hearing on that side, if that makes sense. So the only thing I could do is this thing called a Bone Anchored Hearing Aid where you get like a little nub thing drilled into your brain or not your brain, your your skull on that side. And then there's a little amplification thing that would pick up sound. And then like, you know, those like, like bone conducting headphones, it's like that. So then you would, you can then hear what's happening on that side in your other ear. Because it's going through, it's being conducted through the bone in your head. But that has always freaked me out because my problem is like directionality. Like, if I'm in Target, and you're like, Hey, Kim, I'm over here, I have to spin around to look for you. Because I can't everything always felt sounds like it's coming from my right side. So if that doesn't fix that problem, like that's my biggest issue. And so like, I don't want to have more stuff. Board board on to me than I already have with diabetes. So

Scott Benner 41:43
you don't want to hear better, but still direction on the directionally Yeah. Wow, boy, that's crazy. Yeah, so then

Kim 41:50
like when I'm in a crowded place, like it is a little anxiety ridden when I'm like, doing like a happy hour or networking thing. And like I like I just have to like look to see like, I have to apparently look to see if there's someone on my left side, like talking to me. And then I can like, turn my head and hear it. Like I asked them to repeat it. And I turned my head all around so they can put it into the correct ear. So it's that's a little annoying. But it hasn't. There's only been one time that I know of that like someone at work was sitting on my left side, like at a lunch. And then later they were like, I thought Kim didn't like me, because she just ignored me when I was talking to her. And then then later I was like, no, no, no, I can't hear you. I'm sorry. I have like, See, the problem is it's also hard to know what to tell people that you're deaf on your left side because like so like the first thing I want to do when I meet someone who's like, oh, by the way, I'm deaf on this side. But then like I get through it, and then like I get to know them more. And then I've met up with them a few times, and then I still don't tell them. And then I'm like I should have told them already. Because they would be like happy to know that so that they're not making my life harder by always being on my left side, you know, so it's just like, a whole thing.

Scott Benner 43:11
And then on the diabetes on top of that, too, like when do you tell people you have type one? When do you tell people like, Are you do you not? And I actually

Kim 43:19
I think I tell people about diabetes quicker and sooner than I do about being deaf of the left. And

Scott Benner 43:26
I assume that passive aggressively if you're pissed at your husband, you give him your left side. And he knows that means I'm not listening to you. No, no.

Kim 43:35
Oh my god, Kim, but if we're like out to dinner, like I'll put him on my left because he knows that I can't hear him on that side. And then I can use my good ear to hear everybody else better. And then like the he and I don't really talk at dinner and you know, like, I need to hear the people that we're meeting up with not I don't need to hear him.

Scott Benner 43:54
What a sad little look into marriage that was for people younger than you, Kim. Like when I go out to dinner with other people. My husband, I put my husband in the spot where I can't hear him because we weren't going to talk anyway.

Kim 44:06
It works. There's

Scott Benner 44:07
like a 25 year old right now going what? Wait, what happens if I get married? Oh my gosh. How? Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so much are you okay? Yeah,

Kim 44:21
yeah, I'm good. Um, but then it gets the plot thickens later. No, stop it. Yeah. Oh, wait, but I gotta tell you this one part after surgery. So like I was in surgery for so long in what they call the park bench position, which would be I guess, if you were like sleeping on a park bench, I don't know. So I was like my head was twisted to get to that part of my head and I was like laying down. And so I had I ended up with like a pinched nerve in my neck. And then my left hand was known when I came out of surgery. And it took a couple of months for all the feelings to come back in My hand. How was your

Scott Benner 45:03
diabetes control as a young person? It was good. And what does that mean?

Kim 45:10
I would say like, like a one see what like what would

Scott Benner 45:14
be Yeah, yeah. I mean, your outcomes. Like,

Kim 45:17
I would say, I was like, you know, during the troubling, like puberty times, you know, it was like probably the sevens but other than that, like,

Scott Benner 45:27
not crazy. Yeah. Not crazy. No, no. Okay. Well, I'm looking at the park bench position right now, and it doesn't look comfy. Yeah,

Kim 45:36
I can't imagine having been in that position. But if

Scott Benner 45:40
you don't, if you don't mind surgery, photos, Google park bench position and go to images. Wow, that's bonkers. Yeah, model months for you the feeling to come back? Yeah,

Kim 45:52
like it has the nerve. It was like my pinky came back last because that's the furthest away from the nerve. I guess that's what happened. I don't know. Anyway, but then. So then this other funny thing is like, because I was like, in that position for so long. Like, my body was just like, so stiff. And so eventually, like once I could get up out of bed and start walking around, like, I couldn't turn my head because my neck was just like, stiff, like so stiff. And so I would be walking. And then I'd be like, what? And I would turn at the torso and be like What the So I was like this weird like

Scott Benner 46:30
Frankie cyclists body? Yeah. Walking around now.

Kim 46:34
Yeah. And I kind of had to learn relearn how to walk, because not like I couldn't walk. But like, I didn't have a balanced err on that side. And so then you start walking, not in a straight line side of practice, like walking in a straight line or walking up and down stairs, which is really actually difficult, like down is harder than up because you have to like work against gravity to like, stay upright when you're going down stairs. And so it was like a process of a few months before I felt pretty more comfortable just like walking around. And I was out of work for six weeks after and

Scott Benner 47:11
a number of things that you just don't, you don't even think about ever like the idea that as you're walking downstairs that if you weren't controlling your body, your body would just tumble forward. Yep. That's interesting. Is this about the time your husband redownloaded his dating app? Like there's no way she's making it through all this? I got to do a couple of setups and meet some ladies.

Kim 47:33
No, I'm very resilient. No, no,

Scott Benner 47:35
you are God. Damn right. That's insane. Okay,

Kim 47:38
so then I'll say fast forward as well. So they had some MRIs afterwards that everything was like they was good everything. We got it all. We got it all. They said we got it all. Okay, fast forward to that was 2009. Fast forward to 2015 I start having facial spasms. What is that? Like you meet you want to know? Okay, so the left side of my face would scrunch up from the my mouth and chin up to like my eye and the whole like cheek area with just like crumble in. And it would be stuck like that for like 20 seconds. Like, this seems weird. Yeah. And it would happen when I was like, stressed, or I was laughing or to something, or brushing my teeth, like something would trigger the muscles, and they're just crunched up. So go back to the doctors at Johns Hopkins. And they are like, Well, I mean, look, look in here. Look at this scan like this, this area is lighting up, but it's just scar tissue. See, it's just scar tissue, look at it over the time, scar tissue, scar tissue or like, okay, and suddenly, like we could do Botox so that your face can't scratch up? And I'm like, No, that doesn't, that seems to not really, really fixing the problem that's treating the symptom. And then they're like, Well, maybe you had like, the herpes virus in your head. That is like causing the and I was like, What are you talking about? Like, okay, so that was a problem. And hopefully it was getting worse. And so then in 2016, we moved to Colorado. And I was like, Okay, well, I need to establish care at somewhere out here. And also, maybe these other new people will have some better ideas about these facial spasms that I'm having. So I go meet with like the same kind of doctor here. So there's a there are two surgeons there's the odo learn, like neuro otolaryngologist, which is like, the more like in the brain, ear, nose and throat doctor, surgeon guy, and then there's just like a neurosurgeon who's good at surgery in the brain. So I met with another like otolaryngologist here. And then he was like, that's very suspicious like I know your doctor from Hopkins because we we like, get together we have these, you know, conferences, that all these doctors get together at an eye like I know your doctor. And I'm really surprised that he's telling you it's scar tissue because I think it's regrowth and I'm like, okay, so then he wants me to give him all of my MRIs from inception through now. And he's gonna look at them all in like succession and see what he thinks. And then he takes all of my scans, then to the skull base tumor meetup that they have at the University of Colorado and shoots Medical Center. And so all of the rest of the doctors there that do what he does all look at my images, and they're like, yeah, it's regrowth I sorry, that your doctor at Johns Hopkins. I don't know if he felt like, it just couldn't be because he was there. And he thought he got it all. And it was like an ego thing. Or he just didn't think like, I don't know, but you have regrowth. And I'm like, okay, great. So then I talked to him about doing surgery a second time. And I talked to a radiologist guy that at University of Colorado about doing radiation, he's like, Oh, well, now you're a good candidate for radiation, like, oh, I don't want to go through all this again, okay, so then I, I decide, I'm gonna do something a little crazy. And I'm gonna submit my stuff, my scans and situation to Stanford University, because I know that the doctor there is like one of the best in the whole field. And he does both surgery and radiation. So he should be able to give a better opinion versus just what he wants to do. And so then I started went out there. And at the time, my brother lived in San Francisco, so it was really easy. And so my brother went with me to meet with Dr. Chang there. And he was like, here's the thing, you should have radiation, because first of all, like, no one wants to do surgery on someone else's surgery. And really, you don't want to do it again, on your own surgery anyway. Because like, you like when someone goes into that small of a space and does surgery, they're like messing up all the landmarks of how you know where anything is in the in the brain in the head. And like, and they leave it a certain way that someone else doesn't like and if they like, if they sometimes they will, like rebuild the structures in your brain, like using bone dust and things, which I think my surgeon did do. And so like that just like makes it even harder for anyone else to go back in there and figure anything out.

Scott Benner 52:59
I imagine they get in there. They don't even know what they're looking at them. Yeah, yeah. So

Kim 53:03
he was like, No. And also, like, You should do this thing that so they at Stanford, they invented this thing called CyberKnife. So it's like the next generation of radiation machines were so like the first generation or even before that a Linac machine like all these things like you can't move when you are getting zapped in a certain spot. And the way they do that is they would screw a steel frame into your skull, and then they hold it in place. So you can't move once they figured out where the radiation beam should go in your head. But that's kind of scary, and I didn't really want to have a steel frame screwed into my head. So what they invented at Stanford is CyberKnife and what that does is you still have a thing that holds you still so it was like this, like face mask kind of thing like this, it was like this plastic mesh, that like they warm up and then they drape it over your, the front of my face. And then that whole like it makes a mold of my face to then put back onto me when they're going to do the zapping and then that gets screwed into the table that I'm laying on. So they can't move but also the way that they invented the CyberKnife is that it is continuously readjusting its position like it knows what it needs to aim at. And then it can like readjust or stop if the person does move. Like if you sneeze in the middle of it like it will just stop. And so it was like this new thing. And so I was like okay, I that all makes a lot of sense. I agree with you. I think this is the place to do it. So then I went back to Stanford around Thanksgiving of 20 16 No, no, no, no, no, it was Thanksgiving 2017 We went back to Stanford, and had CyberKnife radiation done for the regrowth

Scott Benner 55:13
people should look it up. It's a really interesting looking device. Really, really kind of amazing that somebody came in

Kim 55:19
it. Like I only needed like 24 minutes or 20 minutes of radiation. And then I was done. Wow. And I had nothing. Like, there's no I had no issues afterwards. And then the really funny thing. So there's the doctor that I met with who was like the head of everything. And then there he works with the radiation surgeon to like to figure out like how many units of radiation they're going to do and how to like program the machine to do it. And that guy, so I had been reading on the acoustic neuroma forums that like people still get prescribed steroids after the radiation. I was like, I really don't want to deal with steroids. So I asked that the radiation guy I was like, so I've seen that like, all the time people take steroids after, do I really need that. Like, because I have type one diabetes that just makes everything hurt. And then he gets this. He was like, I also have type one diabetes that I totally understand. And no, you don't need steroids, we usually just give them to people. So they feel like they got something.

Scott Benner 56:25
Oh, wow.

Kim 56:29
We're like, Yes, this is awesome.

Scott Benner 56:30
Finally, I get more people on my team. Yes. Yeah. Really crazy. And through this whole thing, you know, in between these big events, you doesn't have any impact on your blood sugar or your management or the way you have to deal with your type one or not particularly?

Kim 56:48
No, I mean, once I was still a steroids, I, yeah, nothing was really impacting diabetes. About

Scott Benner 56:55
that. So is that kind of what you meant earlier, when you said that? You're I mean, you didn't come right out and say you're grateful to have diabetes. But that's about what you said. You said, like, prepare you for this, I guess is the question. I

Kim 57:09
would say, in a way, because I'm the like, I'm accustomed to dealing with things that I can't change. And that are like, life impacting medical thing? Yeah. So I think I just, it wasn't like a new thing to have something to deal with basically.

Scott Benner 57:30
Like, I think some people live their lives expecting like, a straight path with no impact and no impediments. And you're accustomed to being somewhere and your blood sugar getting low or having to remember to do something before you do something else, or change a pump on your way out the door. Like that kind of stuff. And so when somebody starts laying obstacles in front of you, you're like, alright, well, we'll just go pet will get past these things. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's perspective. That's really crazy. Wow, Kim. Yeah.

Kim 58:01
So now I am what, like, 657? I don't know. See, I am not good at math up until now. No, you don't need to know math to do accounting,

Scott Benner 58:15
you need to know the laws.

Kim 58:18
Yeah. So anyway, I have had periodic MRIs as follow ups at different intervals since then. And so far, see, I thought that I'd be like, freaking out about having radiation because I want to know everything right away. Like, I'm like, I'm very impatient. And I want to know everything. And this is going to take time for it to like, do its thing. But I haven't been as worried about it as I thought I would be. And actually, I don't really ever think about it at all. So but on the scan since then, it has been the tumor has been like shrinking a little bit. And like, looking like it's dying, which is what it's supposed to do. So it will just be a dead thing in my head. And that's, that's okay.

Scott Benner 59:05
Well, and you don't see them other places like they haven't appeared on your spine or other places like that. So honestly, it's a lot of good news. Yeah, yeah. All right. So you're telling me that the other week as I was leaving my accountants appointment, because he was preparing our taxes, and I asked him this question, and he pulled out a calculator. And I thought, That's not difficult math. Why did he just grab a calculator? I'm not the only one. Oh, interesting.

Kim 59:32
Like for also the software like a lot of time like I work in Excel a lot. Excel is gonna add it for me. I don't need to add up all these numbers or, like in the tax software, like you just need to know where to put in the numbers and it will do its thing like, I don't need to do a lot of manual adding, except with the years sometimes

Scott Benner 59:52
Kim This is reinforcing my idea that society is being held together with a lot of luck.

Kim 1:00:00
In computer theaters,

Scott Benner 1:00:01
how can here's a question for you? I have no overhead I won't the government helped me. It's not my fault that I built a business that needs a few $1,000 worth of equipment and a room in my house. Why am I being punished? I am being punished, aren't I?

Kim 1:00:24
Um, you can hire someone to do

Scott Benner 1:00:28
I talked to the guy about that. And it's not a one to one thing. It's not like if I pay someone $1 I save $1 No, not directly, right. So if I hire somebody, I lose more money.

Kim 1:00:42
You could gain time. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:00:44
that's what every accountant says. And that's bullshit. I don't need time. I need to buy a house on a mountain one day or, like more probably more likely pay for like some lady to change my diapers. That's probably what I'm really saving for. Right? But right, you're like, Yeah, probably.

Kim 1:01:05
No, we have to like we don't have kids or like, what are we gonna do?

Scott Benner 1:01:10
Well, those cats are just going to each other not going to help at all. Yeah, can you imagine if at the end, you're just like, Oh, no. A bear is gonna find this eventually. I guess that would work out and the rheumatologist moved out years ago. Yeah. Oh my gosh, you have a four by four like a four wheeler like an ATV. No.

Kim 1:01:31
Other people do. I don't know that we need one. At this point. We upgraded to a Ford Bronco so that we have more of a check truck kind of car.

Scott Benner 1:01:42
fair to people moving up into the hills, the locals there's no way the locals like you in my right.

Kim 1:01:48
I had jury duty last week at in this county. And there. I had told them that I had just moved here because I ended up on the jury. And then you have to like tell them about yourself.

Scott Benner 1:02:00
And we're like, oh, we know who you are. Don't worry.

Kim 1:02:04
Then the one guy like he lived there his whole life and he's talking to this other guy. And here's like, the yuppie years I'm like, I know I'm a Denver yuppie. I guess I just am a Denver Yuffie it is what it is.

Scott Benner 1:02:16
They're already spreading like Bear stuff on your house to draw them to you. They're like, we'll get rid of these people. No trouble. Wait till they wake up to a bear standing in their driveway leaning on their Bronco. There'll be out of here in five minutes. We can have the place back to get to turn your house into a commune garden. No, oh, yeah. I mean, what would grow in Denver? Nothing right at that height. It's ready. Maybe some sort of a pine tree. Okay, so a couple of things. I'm glad you're okay. I have no recourse tax wise. Is that what you're telling me?

Kim 1:02:51
No, make less money and then you won't have

Scott Benner 1:02:53
to pay as much tax I have to tell you. It's interesting. When you hear somebody say something like that, like, you know, really, if you pay if you made less money, you'd pay less taxes and I'm like, okay, okay. So I shouldn't try to be successful with it. I know.

Kim 1:03:07
I know. It's it's not fair to the normal people that this is how it works. I'm

Scott Benner 1:03:13
not wealthy. By the way, Kim, I don't want to give off the impression that I like there's piles of money in the corner. I don't know what to do with them. Like, you know, like, it's not. It's, yeah, I worked my butt off all year when I get done. I'm like, This is what's left. Okay, no, I understand. It's like it's you know what, it's enough to make you want to do keep working. Oh, yeah. You go I better. I had other ideas though. It's like, it's enough to make you go I bet. I guess I better keep going. Because yeah, that didn't do it. So. All right. Okay. Well, that's just nobody and you charge a ton of money to now what I'm understanding is to plug my information into a spreadsheet.

Kim 1:03:51
Hey, we cost less than lawyers that

Scott Benner 1:03:55
how you make yourself feel better can

Kim 1:03:59
be sometimes where we go oh my gosh.

Scott Benner 1:04:02
Well, I guess I should have been a lawyer is what you're telling me? Maybe as podcasting things not paying off the way I was, like, hoping you know, is there anything we didn't talk about that we should have or any other directions you want to go? Well,

Kim 1:04:14
you didn't ask me about other autoimmune in my family and I did research on that.

Scott Benner 1:04:21
I definitely want to hear that I was busy being proud of myself for not going what every time you said hearing and for not making a joke about a head injury when I knew you had a brain tumor. So because you said something earlier and I was like Oh, is that because you had a head injury? And I was like that's not even a good joke. I'll hold that in. So you have well how about you first of all, do you have anything else?

Kim 1:04:43
I'm just the allergies. Yeah, I don't really have for you, but bad

Scott Benner 1:04:48
enough that you're getting like, like what like one of those wants monthly injections?

Kim 1:04:53
Yeah, allergy shots. They like put in the they put it in the shot like a little bit of the thing you're allergic to and then you're supposed to Be desensitized over time.

Scott Benner 1:05:02
Does that work?

Kim 1:05:04
It worked for my brother. So he's always been like, why don't you get allergy shots? And like, I don't want to go there all the time to get a shot. Like, I don't care about getting a shot, obviously, but I don't want to go there all the time. But

Scott Benner 1:05:16
I'm busy stealing money from people to do their taxes. Yeah. Hey, before we dive into this is your year, like very busy for a short period of time? And then what do you do when it's when tax season is over? Well,

Kim 1:05:29
okay, so I used to work in public accounting. So that was where I did people's taxes during the tax season, like January to April. And then the rest of the year, I did audits, mostly of nonprofit organizations. And so that kept me busy the rest of the year. So I was like, busy year round. And then after that, so I did that. I worked at that firm for like eight years. And then I worked at a firm here in Denver, where they only do audits of nonprofit organizations. Because I thought like that I wanted to be with people again, which I don't and then it was hybrid. And I was like, why am I going to this office? This is a waste of my time. Yeah. Oh, so then I quit that after eight months. And now I'll just I work at JDRF in the finance department. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:06:28
that's very nice. Look at you. Yeah. Can you just divert some of that money to the podcast? Or is that illegal? That's probably Yeah, that was probably illegal. Okay. Nevermind. Well, that's interesting, because I always like I imagined my like an accountant, as a person who just like after tax season's over, just sits there and goes, I hope nobody gets audited.

Kim 1:06:50
Well, the people who only do taxes like that is kind of what they do, but I don't like being bored. So I just like sign up for all the work you could possibly do at

Scott Benner 1:06:59
the firm. Very nice. That's excellent. Okay, so, allergies to pets. Yes, no, thyroid. Celiac. I do not read a Lago. No. Any bipolar in the family? Yes.

Kim 1:07:14
My dad. And he has Parkinson's now, which I think is like they're trying to figure out if that is auto I

Scott Benner 1:07:24
mean, at some point, I imagined in the future that people will use this podcast as part of a research study about bipolar disorder and its relationship to autoimmune issues. That's, that's fascinating. How was it growing up with a bipolar father? Well, we

Kim 1:07:39
didn't know it until, like, 2007. What precipitated it? He had a period of? Well,

Scott Benner 1:07:53
you're laughing you're like, he wrote a mountain lion down the middle of the road. And it didn't seem scared Scott. And we know ya know

Kim 1:08:01
what, he had a manic episode that then we all found out about what he was doing in his free time, which wasn't really ideal. And then and he like, my mom was in the hospital for double knee replacement surgery. And he, like, basically, like, he was like, I'm going out with my friends. And my brother and I were like, you don't have friends? What are you talking about? Then my brother went on the computer to figure out where he was going. And then we found out what he was doing. And then he lied to us. He was doing and then Mom gets out of the hospital and then she finds out more about what he's doing. And it's yeah, that's what we found

Scott Benner 1:08:46
out came out and do you know the phrase tickle your ass with a feather?

Kim 1:08:52
Repeat more like what my dad was doing?

Scott Benner 1:08:53
No. Let's see. That's that's what you just did you. You just tickled my ass with a feather a little bit. You didn't You didn't give me the whole thing you just gave me enough for I was like, Oh, there's more but she's not going to say just please. broad sweeping. She was going

Kim 1:09:07
to to dungeons and doing things. Excellent.

Scott Benner 1:09:13
Yes. Wow. Good dad. Yeah. The guy that takes out the garbage. And that guy, my dad who's a pastor. Thank you, Kim. I didn't know that. But I appreciate you sharing that.

Kim 1:09:26
Now this is turning into after dark. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:09:29
Because we talked about taxes. It's what Wow, yeah, sorry. When did that like moment lead him to get health care or did that moment lead him to be like I'm done with your people.

Kim 1:09:45
That moment led him to get more health care and get more that was like the beginning of all like he takes like 30 Some pills a day now. So that's like the beginning. thing of that process. sounds

Scott Benner 1:10:02
easier just to let somebody tie your balls up of the thing, but I mean, okay. The 30 pills is a lot. Well, it's Parkinson's and everything. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. All right, right. Wow. That's how often does that come up at family events?

Kim 1:10:20
Well, it's not, we never have really like, talked about it a whole lot as a family. And I talked about it. I talked with my mom a little bit, but we never really talked about with my dad. And at this point, I don't think he even really

Scott Benner 1:10:33
know not like he was doing. So I didn't mean with him. I meant like when you and your brothers sitting together, do you ever just look at each other? And go, Hey, how about that time, we found that dad was going to a dungeon periodically

Kim 1:10:45
as every couple years really? That was?

Scott Benner 1:10:53
Does it make you worry about your mental health? Do you think like, Oh, I am looking out for that for myself? Or is it one of the reasons you didn't have kids?

Kim 1:11:00
Sometimes I think about it. So my brother also had OCD. And so like, I am generally a very anxious person. So I don't think I need to worry about it. Like I've talked to people and they're like, you don't need to worry about it. Like, also, if you were doing something, if you were being manic and all that, like we were totally like,

Scott Benner 1:11:29
Did you in hindsight, do you look back and see his behavior being different? Or was he just masking it somehow? Yeah,

Kim 1:11:37
he was masking it and also that we just like, like his narcissism and all that kind of stuff. Like we just thought that was how he was like, he kind of fly off the handle at times when I was growing up. And, like, I just thought that was just how he was but now like, knowing that he has bipolar disorder, I think that's what it was, but we just didn't know that. I'm

Scott Benner 1:12:01
so disappointed that I said, masking it not gag balling it. Really. Okay, that must mess with you. Know, no therapy. Kim, you didn't go talk to a therapist about this. Um,

Kim 1:12:14
I have talked to a therapist, but we haven't like, it's more just like, that's part of my whole thing. I don't need to unpack it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:12:21
I mean, I don't know what you do is what it is. Yeah. I mean, I have to imagine that. I mean, everybody's parents are doing something they don't know about your thing is just comically odd. That's all like you don't have Yeah, when you hear about it. Yeah. Wow. I had to a bit shocking moment. Boy find your iPhone really screwed him over. Is that right? Like is that? Well, it

Kim 1:12:45
was it was that he kept his password to his Gmail or Yahoo mail or whatever, like on a sticky note next to the computer. And so then my brother was able to figure out

Scott Benner 1:12:56
any chance that the password was titty Twister.

Kim 1:12:59
I don't know what it

Scott Benner 1:13:01
is. By the way, I found a way to say a lot of words that you're not supposed to say. But I've said them in ways that are acceptable. Isn't it interesting? Like I could say like, bounces balls. That's okay. I don't have to bleep that out. But if I said something a different way, you wouldn't be able to continue twisters, a colloquialism, which is the word you used earlier. So I'm okay with that. And I could have said Purple Nurple. But I think that's too old and that people wouldn't have gotten that one. Holy hell. That's a great story. Kim, you should be a stand up comic. By the way. No, no, no, no, no. And then because every time people don't like what you're saying you would turn your left side to them and just pretend it wasn't happening. I really see. I think you've got 15 minutes and you easily.

Kim 1:13:46
Yeah, I might. I

Scott Benner 1:13:47
might. No kidding. And your husband is he just scared off to the side waiting for this ride to end or sleeping okay with the office.

Kim 1:13:56
He's okay. Like he and my dad never got along.

Scott Benner 1:14:01
That's okay. Because your dad asked to spank him and he said no problem. No,

Kim 1:14:05
it was because my dad he's he like because we were in Ohio and then my dad. We're gonna move to Chicago after graduating from college. And then my dad was like convinced that he was my husband. Not my husband yet was going to take me to Chicago and abandoned me. They're

Scott Benner 1:14:25
like a western film from the 1870s Don't let them move you to the Dust Bowl. He'll leave you for another woman. Yeah,

Kim 1:14:32
that was the joke that I was. Right. And like this time, I was like, now my TED thinks that he's gonna take me up to this rural house and oh,

Scott Benner 1:14:43
well, that might be right about it. He's you're definitely getting fed to a bear. And he's your husband like, I don't know what happened. Actually. It's good thing you recorded this because when you turn up dead, they're gonna use this. So be careful and you won't hear the bear coming. So you're in trouble. Get an amen. Do you ever think About I would I have to be honest with you, if I move somewhere where there was a bear, I parked my car on top of the front door, dive out the front door into the car and drive away.

Kim 1:15:09
I think you just don't want to leave food outside, which we have not been doing. So I think we're going to be okay.

Scott Benner 1:15:15
Okay, I'm just saying people moved out of the woods on purpose. You know, I'm saying that you went back. You did a lot backwards. You used to be by the way people made money to get away from wildlife. You're like, no, no, no, I've made some money. I'm gonna go back to the wildlife. All right. Well, I hope this is a by the way. Did you say Bobcat or mountain lion earlier? Did I say that? I

Kim 1:15:34
did. No. Those are both options to the could show up.

Scott Benner 1:15:38
What about snakes? Um,

Kim 1:15:41
I don't. I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:15:42
Don't make me google it and ruin your day cam?

Kim 1:15:45
Well, it's okay. It's fine. Like there's there's rattlesnakes, like, Oh, my trials and things. Oh

Scott Benner 1:15:52
my god. It

Kim 1:15:53
just depends on your elevation whether or not they're going to be there because they I'm past eight under tree line. But I think we're still under treeline here. So they're definitely going to go there could be snakes out

Scott Benner 1:16:05
there. Yeah, absolutely insane. What you just said made me think, like, I don't know why Denver's not a desert. If that's the truth, like I don't go where there's a snake. That doesn't happen to me. I can't I can't tell I'm not doing I'm not doing that. I just don't. I don't understand what you did. Like, I'd be like, well, that's why the house is for sale. Because the man who woke up one day. And there was a bear beating a bobcat with a snake and he's like, I can't live in this weird animal sex dungeon anymore. I gotta get out of here. And he sold it to us suckers. That's all I can say.

Kim 1:16:44
Yeah, we're gonna put up a fence. That'll help

Scott Benner 1:16:47
him. I don't know what to name this episode. Don't be like, because if you think about it, you were a little nervous in the beginning. So let's start off a little nervous.

Kim 1:16:58
No, no, I was.

Scott Benner 1:17:00
I felt nervous. What's the word? Not nervous? You didn't open all the way up yet. You made just a little intrepid like at first, right? So we get

Kim 1:17:09
you kind of can. Like this is how we ended up where we are now. Yeah, sounds like oh boy. I don't know

Scott Benner 1:17:15
yet. Because voice in your head. That's like, somehow this guy is gonna find out about my dad. That's when there are people who won't come on this podcast. They're like, I know what's gonna happen. You're gonna get you're gonna get me comfortable. And we're gonna start joking and talking. And the next thing you know, I'm gonna say something I don't want anybody else to know. And I'm like, Yeah, that's the whole point of the book. I know. You think the points diabetes? You know, I mean, loosely. Oh, yeah, I guess I should ask you at the end. Do you pump you have a CGM?

Kim 1:17:46
Um, yeah, I have a tandem and Dexcom. Using the

Scott Benner 1:17:49
control IQ. Yes. Excellent. works well for you.

Kim 1:17:53
It's okay. I hope that there's a time when you can turn off the auto correction when you're in exercise mode. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:18:03
okay. So you get moving. Running from a bobcat, and your blood sugar starts falling too quickly?

Kim 1:18:12
Well, it's like, it'll be like when I'm going out for a bike ride. And then I eat a snack. But then you know, the exercise. Didn't use the snack yet. And then it boluses but I'm like, No, I needed those carbs. Like I'm gonna need them in 20 minutes. Why did you give me insulin? I didn't want insulin on board.

Scott Benner 1:18:32
I gotcha. So you would like it to be a little more intuitive? Yeah,

Kim 1:18:36
because otherwise, like, what I had been doing is just turning off control IQ, but then you don't get the low protection unless you turn it back on like after, right? Like you remember to turn it back on. So that was a problem. But I have heard that that will be a new software feature on the next update, so maybe they will be doing

Scott Benner 1:18:56
okay. Hey, my last question is, is there any chance you're left handed?

Kim 1:18:59
I am not left handed.

Scott Benner 1:19:02
If you could teach yourself. Here's why I ask. Because first of all, I've never given this advice to anybody before that I'm out of my depth. But I think you should have a gun. Oh, that I think you should teach yourself to shoot left handed so that when it makes the noise doesn't hurt your that's what I was gonna say. This year. I'm being serious. This is my best advice for you after speaking to you for an hour and 20 minutes. You have you have a gun.

Kim 1:19:24
No, but now I have to tell my husband that you you think we should because everyone else he's told thinks as crazy but he thinks that like either we are going to need one for an animal attacking the dogs or something or there's just like, like, we're in the middle of nowhere and someone could just drive up the road and end up at our house and then be like, yeah, and then we have no protection from someone attacking us at home.

Scott Benner 1:19:53
Have you ever seen Pulp Fiction, Kim?

Kim 1:19:56
Um, that's a good question. I Don't know.

Scott Benner 1:20:00
Well, Kim, first of all Pulp Fiction is the best movie anyone's ever made. You should watch it. But there's going to and I don't want to ruin it for you now, but I'm just saying you could end up in Zeds dungeon in your own house and yeah, again, I want to shut down at the very least I know nothing about guns by the way, first of all, but I think I think a shotgun like a little just something to like, maybe put a little buckshot in something can get them out, get them moving a little bit, even a little bird shot. Maybe you don't I mean, just to you know, get them get them thinking the right way. Also, your husband's clearly going to shoot the dog instead of the bobcat.

Kim 1:20:34
No, no, no.

Scott Benner 1:20:35
So your husband said he thinks maybe gun. He has mentioned it a few times. I'd have one if I was you. And floodlights on the roof. That was like, Oh my God, I don't know what you're gonna die up there. That's all I want to say.

Kim 1:20:52
That's okay, it's it's pretty. I like it. Well,

Scott Benner 1:20:54
let's see this and being really serious. Yes, absolutely. Rock solid internet connection.

Kim 1:21:01
Oh, yeah. It's a dish that goes to a tower and because there's so high up, there's like nothing in between us.

Scott Benner 1:21:10
Oh, my God, you've got the best connection. And I was panic because at the beginning you were like, Why didn't want to go in that room? Because the garage door is shaking because of the wind. And I'm like, this lady is living on a fishing trawler somewhere. I don't know what's happening. Exactly. But my goodness. What a listen. Being serious. Congratulations on the new house. I'm sure you won't die up there. anytime soon. Oh, no, no, I'm sure it'll be fine. Yeah, but that's really it's really I think it's interesting the moves you made like and I and it also shows I want to be serious for a second. Okay. You don't have like there's no I don't you're not scared of life is what it feels like to me. Again, it almost feels like to me like you're like look, I got diabetes. I'm okay. At this thing grown in my head. I'm okay. I'm gonna move up to the top of the mountain now and try this like I really Yeah, I'm envious a little bit of in the free in the freeway. You did this thing?

Kim 1:22:05
Yeah, we're kind of like we're not risk takers. But we want to like make sure we live life, I guess.

Scott Benner 1:22:13
No, you live on a mountain with a bear. You're a risk taker. Alright, so let's get a shotgun. And let's get let's talk to somebody who knows about not the people in town because they're already pissed. You're there. But like, you know, I may be a big knife. You like a like a like, I don't know, in case you get into a tussle? You might need to ship something. I don't know, Kim. Like, how did Daniel Boone do it? Daniel Boone was somebody right? Like, how did he do that?

Kim 1:22:43
I always just think of the Revenant and Leonardo DiCaprio fighting like grizzly bear. But these would be black bears. So it's not Oh,

Scott Benner 1:22:51
yeah. It's much easier to beat up a black bear. You'll be fine. You don't know what you're talking about. Kim, you got to get on the internet and properly scare yourself. Maybe all right, you're gonna have like a 12 gauge. Like five minutes from now. You're gonna be in the Walmart like I need a gun. Hello? Anyone? They're gonna be like us. Another one of these ladies buying a gun. That Bronco has never been offered. That's what they're gonna say. Would you pull? Oh, my God, Kim. You're terrific. Thank you so much. I appreciate this very much. Thank you. Yep, hold on one second for me

well, a huge thanks to Kim for open and honest interview. And we're also going to thank us met us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514. I'd also like to thank contour makers of the contour next gen blood glucose meter, and remind you to go to contour next one.com/juicebox To get the most accurate meter that I've ever used. Check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. And of course if you're an apple podcast user, head into those settings, and choose all new episodes. Thank you so much for listening, and for supporting the show. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast next week, December 11 12th and 13th. What are you getting? What are you getting? Brand new Omni pod five content. Make sure you're subscribed and following