#1056 Professor Holly
Holly has type 1 diabetes and is a med school professor.
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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1056 of the Juicebox Podcast
Welcome back everyone. Today I'll be speaking with Holly. She's 47 years old and has had type one diabetes since she was seven. Holly is a mother, a wife and a med school professor. She even has a husband with a really interesting story. So get comfortable. And remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Would you like to save 40% off of comfortable items like joggers, hoodies, sheets and towels. Go to cozy earth.com and use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% off of your entire order. And don't forget the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes a group with now 43,000 people in it someone in there just like you or someone you can help with. It's a wonderful community. You should go check it out. Last little reminder that Juicebox Podcast Pro Tip series for type one diabetes is completely remastered and available at episode 1000 through episode 1026.
This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one. You can have the same delicious drink that I enjoy every morning by going to drink ag one.com/juice box with your first order. Expect a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs. Get your foundational nutrition at drink ag one.com/juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juice box.
Holly 2:10
My name is Hollywood Aman. I am a mom of two amazing kids. They're 16 and 11. I'm a scientist and a professor in the med school like here in Quebec City, Canada. And I've lived with type one since the age of seven and I'm now 47.
Scott Benner 2:27
Seven to 40 years.
Holly 2:30
Yep. Okay. hope you appreciate I aged on purpose to make the math easier for you.
Scott Benner 2:34
Thank you. It's why we waited for a birthday to come. Because if you would have been like I was I was diagnosed at seven and I'm 46 I would have been like oh god, hold on. Tell me again. What do you do for a living?
Holly 2:48
I'm a professor.
Scott Benner 2:50
Okay. Your kids have any autoimmune stuff? No.
Holly 2:56
Just me. Okay, you
Scott Benner 2:58
okay? Just type one or do you have something else?
Holly 3:02
I also have Hashimotos.
Scott Benner 3:05
Taking T for? Yeah. Does that do it for you? If it seems here? Yeah. Energy is good. All that stuff? Yeah. Cool. All right. Have you been Canadian? Your whole life?
Holly 3:18
Canadian my whole life? Okay, I've lived other places. But you were born there. I was born here. I've moved around a bit. I'm not from Quebec. Originally. You can tell from my accent. Okay.
Scott Benner 3:29
Blanca. All right. Where do you want to start? I've been I haven't done this in 10 days. It's up to you. I just had a practice. I just got back from vacation. And I was like, well, that's life. We know a lot about our work good now. All right, podcasts. Other people have diabetes. Even scientists, people in Quebec, sometimes scientists, people have diabetes. So I guess let's just go to the beginning for so what what do you remember if anything about your diagnosis?
Holly 3:58
I remember my mom crying a lot and comforting her. And then I was hospitalized for a month. Okay, which was a long time even then I think, wait a month, like a month? I lived in the hospital for a month. Do you
Scott Benner 4:12
recall why?
Holly 4:13
So I what I was told was that they had to stabilize me.
Scott Benner 4:19
So they're stabilizing techniques don't work that well? I guess not. I'm, I'm just checking very quickly. It's 2023 right now. I go back 40 years it was 83. Okay.
Holly 4:33
All right. Even back then. No, that was a long time. I can talk to a lot of other people who've been who were diagnosed around the same time or? Yeah, it was a long time.
Scott Benner 4:41
No, no, for sure. Maybe your parents were like, This is amazing. Can you keep her longer place? You don't know but the kids are pain. maybe who knows? They see your dad grease and bombs. She needs to be here another week. Don't you think?
Holly 4:57
We can't deal with this at home.
Scott Benner 4:59
You Yeah. Three more days. Do you remember anything about your care?
Holly 5:05
I remember that. I mean, in terms of in terms of what I was taking,
Scott Benner 5:09
do you mean? Yeah, and how your family.
Holly 5:12
So I remember, I started with either one or two needles a day, I remember going to two. I remember, I was on two, very shortly afterwards, but I don't remember if I started on to where I started on one. But it was like the classic, you know, beef and pork. Cloudy and clear. I remember testing my urine. That was really fun the test tubes in the bathroom and they would, you know, you would drop in, one of them took two drops of urine and five drops of water. And one of them took five drops of urine and 10 drops of water, and then you drop in the tablet and the fears. They change colors and you compare them to the chart.
Scott Benner 5:49
Does that clear the test?
Holly 5:52
So the clinic test was the strip's and they came late. I believe it might have been Clintus. I don't know.
Scott Benner 5:57
No, no, I know. I'm, I'm amazed that you remember that much of it. So then you're Are you one shot a day or two? How do they start? Yeah,
Holly 6:05
thank you. I think I start with two because I definitely remember doing you know, the the breakfast shot. So it was like, you know, 45 minutes before breakfast, and then the supper shot, which was about 45 minutes before supper.
Scott Benner 6:17
Okay. All right. measurements of your health. Any idea what they were looking for? Nothing.
Holly 6:26
I went to the hospital every three months. They took some blood. That's all I know. Okay. And even see wasn't even like, you know, when was he when he developed? Wasn't it like 79 or something like that. So they may not have even had it. I grew up in Saskatchewan. Oh, yeah. Just north of north of North Dakota and Montana. For anyone who is less, less familiar with Canadian geography.
Scott Benner 6:46
I just like that. I like for people to hear that there was no measurement. Like your measurement of health was what standing up? I don't know. Yeah, right. She's alive. We did it. Come back.
Holly 6:58
Here. I wasn't, you know, I was a little kid. So they might have been telling my parents more than that. This is not a conversation I would ever have with my parents. So.
Scott Benner 7:07
Okay, so you did not talk about diabetes with your parents whose child?
Holly 7:12
Oh, I mean, in terms of like, how am I doing? Ah, no, we talked about that. I mean, I would not have this conversation now. Oh, we would never talk about it. What Why do you think that is? Because I mean, my mom and I don't talk much anyway. And my dad basically left it to my mom. And then she left him when I was eight. And then he moved back to Europe when I was 13. So it wasn't really
Scott Benner 7:35
involved. All right, she left him that's why we don't talk to her.
Holly 7:40
Ah, no, we had a you don't have to tell you. I love my mom. Sure. I love my mom. So this is not a therapy session. Right. But we had a difficult conversation a couple of years ago, and haven't really come back together on that.
Scott Benner 7:56
Oh, I see. So one of you doesn't matter who brought up something. I'm gonna guess it was you. You brought up something that had been bothering you your whole life and it didn't land well. When you have diabetes and use insulin, low blood sugar can happen when you don't expect it. GE voc hypo pen is a ready to use glucagon option that can treat very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes. ages two and above. Find out more go to G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with pheochromocytoma or insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk.
Holly 8:37
We wanted her to test for COVID Oh, and she did. And we thought it was fine. And then the last night of our visit there she got really upset at me about the fact that she had to test for COVID That's it. Yeah. And but it's so when I talk to people who don't understand diabetes, the way I explain this is my my sister has asthma and was allergic to cigarette smoke. It was always said, you know, she shouldn't be around smoke. My mom smoked all the time. Sure, in the car in house, all that sort of stuff. So take that same attitude map into diabetes. That's sort of what I got. Okay. So,
Scott Benner 9:21
you know, my sister can't be my sister can't be around cigarette smoke. And she's like, why not? I'm fine. I
Holly 9:31
think she tried to quit and she did succeed at one point for anyway. It's complicated. And I lived
Scott Benner 9:37
in Saskatchewan. I do heroin, just so you know. Because it sounds cold.
Holly 9:43
It's very cold. Mo for sure. I plug in your car
Scott Benner 9:47
to keep it warm, not because it's an electric car.
Holly 9:49
So it will start again. Yeah, this is back in the day pre electric car.
Scott Benner 9:53
Yeah. So there's heaters on the engine block and you'd plug it in to keep the oil from becoming Hard, correct? Yeah, heroin right into a vein. That's what I do. I'd be like, I gotta get out of here. Or I'd worn that carbon drive south until I did something, though. What the hell does that mean? It's you
Holly 10:13
know how you know how in places so when I lived in Toronto for a while Toronto winters are technically warmer than Saskatchewan. And I think New Jersey is pretty similar to Toronto, right? I mean, sort of like it's it's cold and gray and slushy. You know, whereas in Saskatchewan, it's cold, but it's blue, and bright and sunny.
Scott Benner 10:32
It doesn't matter to me, I'd get the hell out of there. And Tuesday. Okay, so Oh, that's interesting. I
Holly 10:37
was seven years I supposed to go? I don't know. I mean, you were
Scott Benner 10:41
making better decisions than your mom, you should have tried it and so on. So, okay, so you're not nearly the first person I've spoken to who who's had like a real family remoulding. Around COVID. Like, very interesting. Like, it's not uncommon at all. There's a woman I wish she'd never come on here. But her family like, like, just disintegrated over it. Like just, you know, and it wasn't like in your things really simple. It's not like your mom was like, I don't think COVID is real. And you're like, I think it is it wasn't even that argument. It was like, I just need you to put a swab in your nose to make sure I'm not gonna get COVID Because I have diabetes. Yeah. And that pissed her off enough. How old is she?
Holly 11:22
- Okay, seven years, he would have been 69 or 68. And
Scott Benner 11:28
I'm just trying to change. Yeah. I was trying to figure out why she won't come back around. Yeah,
Holly 11:34
I don't know. I don't know. No, it was my kids were going to visit her. And my youngest was still too young for vaccines. And we know that my eldest does not have the genes for type one, or at least the, you know, the common. The Attilio subtypes that are associated with type one because he was enrolled in trigger was a newborn. But my youngest had never been tested. I mean, trigger wasn't. Trigger wasn't running at that time. So
Scott Benner 12:02
you were basically saying to your mom, listen, I don't want my kid to get COVID and then end up this kicking a diabetes thing in. So just stick this swab in your nose and let's check to make sure you don't have it. Did you pay for the test? No. She she was out the 12 bucks. You're saying? Maybe that was the problem? That she did bring that up real Oh, stop. It. She really? Yeah. She that's great. I just imagined her mind. She's like, my cigarette smoking didn't hurt the girl. Like they said it was going to there's no way that this could happen. Wow. That's fascinating. All right. Anyway, thanks for telling me that. That was a great year. We'll be right back up again. I know how to make the podcast again. Alright, so you haven't spoken to your mom in a while? Yeah.
Holly 12:50
I'm sad about it actually. Like it's Oh, no,
Scott Benner 12:52
I would imagine. Do you want to? You want to talk more about it? Go ahead. No. Okay. I
Holly 12:57
didn't know if you want to unburden unless you want me to send you a copay afterwards.
Scott Benner 13:01
I wish people would send me $40 After I made a podcast with him, but that hasn't happened yet. Okay, so you manage the way you did for how long? Like when did you go to MDI, every day that I wake up, I drink he won. He won, of course, is a foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole body health, drink, ag one.com/juicebox. I drink ag one every morning, just a cold glass of water and a scoop of delicious ag one, mix it up and drink it down. It's the perfect start to my day. I gave ag want to try initially because I was tired of taking so many vitamins and supplements. And I wanted a single solution that supports my entire body and covers my nutritional bases. I wanted better gut health. I wanted a boost of energy. And I hated taking all those pills and vitamins. So if you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with ag one. Try ag one with my link and get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. Just go to drink ag one.com/juice box that's drink ag one.com/juice box, check it out. There's links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com.
Holly 14:17
So what do you count as MDI? Like, is to just two needles count? No, right. So I'm so that was mph, right when I was about so I got my and then I got my first so here, here are the things I remember. And I'm gonna I'm just gonna guess about how old I was. I remember getting a blood glucose meter around age 11. Okay, all right. That was the big brick. Yeah, super. You would put the put a big drop of blood on and blot it and wait 60 seconds and then close the meter. I remember that one human synthetic insulins that was a big change. And I think I was I would have been about 1314 15 around there. That's you getting Lantus. Then No Lantis did not come until much later. Okay. Yeah, no, I actually never even I never even got a. I never even took lintas Because I moved to a pump in 2004 and
Scott Benner 15:12
went right to a pub. Here in Canada. I forgot. So
Holly 15:15
yeah, Lantis was later coming here. So, yeah, but I've moved off of mph on to a took lenti Ultra net MPH is terrible. It was just terrible. And so I tried everything else. lenti and ultra Linsay. Were the two.
Scott Benner 15:32
How was it not helpful day to day? Like What Did mph not allow for you?
Holly 15:37
Um, it's just really variable in terms of how it absorbs you never really know when that peak is gonna happen. You know, and I've never needed a lot of insulin. So small variations. We're all we just like, kick my behind.
Scott Benner 15:52
You think you were a low a lot as a child.
Holly 15:55
I was I there was a lot of glucagon in my childhood
Scott Benner 15:58
really? Like, like seizures. And
Holly 16:02
I don't know if I had a lot of seizures. I know I did have one seizure because I was hospitalized for that. But I would wake up, it'd be about usually about 1030 I'd had glucagon and I was barfing. Wow. And I would barf all day and miss the whole day of school.
Scott Benner 16:19
And this was common for you. Common? Well, you mentioned in your note that you don't feel your lows. Is that still Yeah, that's still the case. That is still the case. How, what age did you lose the ability to feel them?
Holly 16:34
So it was about 20 years in. So I would have been about 27 ish. But it's tough to say when it started. You know, I have? I have. It's funny. My husband and I were talking about this the other day, because there was one point when I sort of realized I'm like this something, something weird is going on, we were on a canoeing trip. And we had to get across a lake. It was really windy, was bad weather. It was it was in May. And it was snowing. And it was just we were like What are we doing out canoeing in May. And we had to get across this lake. And so we're just paddling. And all of a sudden, I'm crashing low. And I didn't feel it coming at all. And I you know you're in a canoe, I can't get up and go get my bag or anything like that. But I always had those, those gels tucked in a pocket of my life jacket. And you know, the cherry gels. And they don't even claim to be delicious. They just say pleasant cherry flavor. That's the level to which they aspire. Yeah,
Scott Benner 17:37
we're just gonna go for not horrible here and see, see what we can do. You'll be able to choke it down. That'd be a better marketing plan. If it just said it doesn't taste horrible. Better than pleasant actually. Also, I'm not sure if people are paying attention to what level but this lady lives in a place where it snows in May. So I don't know why you would stay there again. That's ridiculous there flowers and green grass in May here. Do you have a car?
Holly 18:05
It was not normal? We were not expecting the snow on that.
Scott Benner 18:09
Alright. Alright, that's fair enough. So what do you see you do the gel? Does it actually stop that? Or is
Holly 18:16
it works? I mean, obviously I survived. Right? Yeah. But I mean somebody
Scott Benner 18:18
paddling furiously to get you to a bag.
Holly 18:22
I don't recall. Like, I just remember squeezing the gel and like rubbing it in my cheek. And then, you know, continuing to paddle you just sort of keep going. Mainly, I mean, I can still function physically when I'm low. It's the cognitive
Scott Benner 18:36
stuff that goes buried at that point.
Holly 18:39
We were not married. No, we were we were I think we were engaged at that point.
Scott Benner 18:42
Yeah, that's how you know he likes you. And that's over. Really? Like, wow, he's he didn't just get in the car and drive.
Holly 18:51
I mean, driver's license at that point. So you know,
Scott Benner 18:54
oh, because Saskatchewan. Why would you need that?
Holly 18:57
Right. He grew up on a commune. What the hell were Ontario? They have that in Canada. Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner 19:06
How was he your Is he your age? Did you have the cradle what's going on?
Holly 19:10
No, he's so he's 50. I'm 47. Oh,
Scott Benner 19:13
okay. Here's he was a little older. He didn't have a license in his late 20s. What kind of commune was it? We'd?
Holly 19:20
No, it was. That would have been great. They probably would have survived. They sold organic food. And the kids had to do all the weeding.
Scott Benner 19:31
So his parents were his parents were hippies.
Holly 19:34
I think they were want to be hippies. It was a religious commune.
Scott Benner 19:37
Oh, sell it. Gotcha. Did they wear deodorant?
Holly 19:44
Oh, no. Never asked you would they wear deodorant? Now? You were dating him?
Scott Benner 19:47
Did he wear deodorant? He did. All right. Okay. I didn't think Canada made that stuff. What hippies? Yeah, hippies. Like, there's Canadian hippie
Holly 19:59
group. Okay. It does they did have sites around the
Scott Benner 20:02
world. Do you not want to tell me what it was called?
Holly 20:05
It was called the divine Emmis emissaries of the Divine Light.
Scott Benner 20:09
Alright, hold on. First. I'm googling Canadian hippies. They had them. Okay, you guys got that too. Now hold on to one of the white light.
Holly 20:20
emissaries of divine light. I don't know if it's still I believe they might still have one site that is still in existence. One or two? Wow. I know they had one. So I know he lived for a while in Colorado as well.
Scott Benner 20:34
There on the web. Yeah. So I mean, if you've got a website, you're real. Is that something? Good?
Holly 20:42
Oh, no, I was just gonna say commune. I mean, he's amazing. And I do think that there's something to be said for growing up with the idea of, we're all in this together.
Scott Benner 20:54
Ya know, I would imagine. I mean, just as long as the leader doesn't try to touch you weird or something. Great. Are his parents alive? I'm sorry. This is the Yeah, they're fantastic. And they don't do stuff like this any longer. But they're just really lovely people.
Holly 21:09
Just really lovely people. They're not together his dad. His dad was actually one of the last people who stayed in the location where my husband grew up. And his mom met her current partner there. They've been together for 30 years.
Scott Benner 21:23
Wow. Yeah. So he his mom, and that they just traded off and she went a different way. And he stayed behind, trying to keep the ship from going down. I guess that's great. Well, yeah. Oh, very weird. I love this podcast. I don't know why. Every time somebody says something like, that's crazy. Yeah. Very cool.
Holly 21:44
So many people have such, I mean, I think most people don't think their own life. Is that interesting. But when you listen to stories about people's lives, so many people have these interesting stories.
Scott Benner 21:54
Oh, yeah. You're all out of your mind. If you don't think your lives are interesting. You're just not asking the right questions. That's all I guess. Yeah. All right. So where did this start? Oh, you're hyper
Holly 22:03
awareness in the middle of a canoe? In the snow?
Scott Benner 22:07
I guess my question is, what are the implications of that as an adult?
Holly 22:12
I mean, the main implication for me is it makes it difficult to drive.
Scott Benner 22:16
Okay, because out of nowhere, you're just too low to function in your head.
Holly 22:21
Yeah. Well, so I ended up. So I got a Dexcom. Very early, they weren't available yet in Canada. But I was working in the US. I was doing my postdoc at the University of Michigan. And so, because of that, because I have a sensor, I'm able to do things like drive, but prior to that, it was really scary. Yeah. Right. And I would, you know, always test before I drive, and then I would pull over at least once an hour to test and data.
Scott Benner 22:49
So wow, did you ever have trouble? Um, no, because I've followed the rules. You were so ahead of it. Yeah. Yeah. How does it so it impacts that way? Is it? Yeah, this is gonna sound strange. Is it kind of nice. Like, when you hear other people talk about being dizzy at 65 and stuff like that? Are you kind of, I still get oh, you still have oh, man present?
Holly 23:11
I just have no warning that it's coming. I see. Okay, it's more like i. So it's not that I don't feel any low ever. Although, I've been incredibly low. And just feeling nothing. So you know, I think the lowest I've ever been, and just, you know, I, my Dexcom is going bananas. And I feel fine. Would have been about you know, what around to so 36
Scott Benner 23:38
Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's low.
Holly 23:40
But I still do get low still do impact me. And particularly, I get really sad. You cry. Sometimes, so. And mostly it's just like, everything sucks for three or four hours after I've been low.
Scott Benner 23:56
Oh, Tom, are you serious? So yeah, you get a low even like, like, how low do you have to get before the world's not good for hours afterwards?
Holly 24:04
It's not really a number doesn't seem to be tied to a particular number. But it happens with some frequency. And I was already pretty motivated to avoid lows. But that is definitely an additional motivator.
Scott Benner 24:15
Oh, that's interesting. So you know, what's the level of sadness? Are you unable? Like, I'm really sad. Did like just lay around in a pile or?
Holly 24:23
No, I keep going up because I have a life and I have to do stuff. Yeah. But I'm, I'm very much aware that I am sucking it up. And then I'm going to be fine in four hours. And these thoughts that I'm having are just the low. Everything's gonna be okay.
Scott Benner 24:37
Wow. So it's not just like, it's not like a feeling of just like, Doom or dread or unhappiness, it's total despondency. Like, and it touches things get meaning that just because you know it's happening because of the law. You can't say. I know this lamp is pretty and I'm sitting here thinking about throwing it away because I'm so said that I bought this lamp. Yeah, there's no distinction in there.
Holly 25:03
No, I am very. So I have the meta thought that I am aware of what's happening. I'm aware that it's happening because I'm low. And then I'm going to be okay. Yeah, but I'm still feeling the feeling. Wow,
Scott Benner 25:15
that's XR. Does it impact relationships? Like do you is like, do we know we don't talk about stuff during that time.
Holly 25:22
So I do request that to not be asked to make decisions when I'm low.
Scott Benner 25:26
Okay, because you'll follow the feeling
Holly 25:29
more I have real difficulty making choices. That's crazy. Like, it's just it feels impossible to decide anything.
Scott Benner 25:36
Yeah. Like, yeah, like, you have dread, like real, like despondent feelings. And that's something. Are you ever afraid you'll hurt yourself during it? No, no.
Holly 25:46
I have responsibilities to my family.
Scott Benner 25:48
I mean, like, could you like, could you like tumble like, I don't know. There's no world peace. I wish there was more food. Why are there more commons where people make food? And then you're up on the roof looking down at the ground? Like, could it go that quickly? Or? No,
Holly 26:04
I don't think so. I think like, because I am aware of what's happening as it is happening. It's just, it's really unpleasant, even though I know why it's happening. And that is going to stop.
Scott Benner 26:14
Yeah. Wow, that's really interesting. No one's ever said that before. You're on a first I don't think anybody's had a low on a rowboat. married a guy who grew up in a commune or describe sadness after being low life? That's really good shoe. What else you gonna say?
Holly 26:27
I don't know. Let's find out what sound you got?
Scott Benner 26:30
Yeah, that's a good question. I ever I have a meeting later this afternoon, where I have to listen to the people that helped my mom where she lives describe why they didn't help her again. And then I get to sit there and try to be. So my wife tells me, I have to be polite during these conversations, because I'll put the people off, and then it'll make them harder for them to help my mom, I want to hold them accountable. And I'm not good at holding them accountable with pleasant words. Like outside of
Holly 26:59
gender element there, though.
Scott Benner 27:01
I think it's, I think it's because they tried to kill my mommy. And I'm not I'm not okay with that. And on the podcast. It's interesting. Like, there's a, there's a dynamic at play that most of you aren't aware of, but like, I'm a really direct person. And like, if I was in charge of a group of 20 people in a, you know, in a business situation, we would be a very effective group of 21 people. If I worked in that group of 20 people, I would be a despised human being, nobody would like me. So my wife said, There's no way you could have a real job. She's like, people would fire you immediately. And I was saying, but that's why the podcast works. So well. I said, Because I tell myself what to do. And then I do it. Right. And she's like, Yeah, not everybody does the thing at their job that they're supposed to do. And I'm like, so when they don't do it, it's not okay for me to point out to them that they're not doing it. She goes, No, we have to speak nicely, where they know, we know that they're not doing it, but we don't make them feel bad about it. And I was like, Are you sure? Like, because I would just like to tell them? Do your fucking job? Like, is that not okay, so anyway,
Holly 28:09
so I might not say to your fucking job. But I do think so. I do, I suspect. I'd be curious for you to hear your wife's perspective on this. But I'm willing to bet that you could get away with saying things that she probably can't because of the gender, the gender dynamics. Well, I tried that the legs are allowed to be forceful in ways that women aren't I understand
Scott Benner 28:30
your point. I also think that it's, I think that there's also an aspect in my regular life, that sometimes I have to be cognizant about the doesn't exist, and which is that here, I make, like when you come to record with me, you trust me already. Like, right, so like, so I'm kind of the leader of the of the like, I'm the leader of the commune. And, and when I tell you to take off your pants, it's for Jesus, you don't question it?
Holly 29:01
No, you only get to tell me to weed the garden.
Scott Benner 29:03
Yeah. Okay, sure. And then
Holly 29:07
what job I get to do, and those sorts of things,
Scott Benner 29:10
what guy can have my wife off to if she's
Holly 29:13
okay? Which sister wife, I'm going to be friends.
Scott Benner 29:16
I just have this, like, so I'm accustomed to being a trusted source in this situation. And then you get into the real world, where like, you're in a room with four people were like, I don't know what your stupid podcast is about buddy. And I have no idea who you are. And I forget that, like, everyone's not just going to be thrilled that I'm there. Because I do live a portion of my life or when I show up people are like, it's the guy and I'm like it is it's me. And like and like we're all good. And I am a very like, I am a very pleasant person. But I'm also direct to the point of I think it would surprise people that listen that if you if you were to screw me in my own life, I wouldn't care about how you felt in our altercation or in our but But what I'm Interview,
Holly 30:00
it's pretty clear, I think people should be surprised. I would not be surprised. But in
Scott Benner 30:04
this, I'm always coming from the perspective of, like, Tell me more. Why is that? Like, I'm interested in the interviewing more. Because if I just said everything I was thinking, I guess these interviews would be like, like, I don't? How do I put this? You're getting, like, 23% of me on the podcast, and you made the best 25 You would not enjoy the whole 100%? Cuz I would just be like, how the hell did you get in that boat without something to help yourself?
Holly 30:34
It was in the pocket of my life jacket,
Scott Benner 30:38
there'd be more of me going What's wrong with you?
Holly 30:40
What's wrong? Responsible?
Scott Benner 30:43
It'd be more of me on the podcast going? Did you consider thinking? It's stuff like that. So little bits of that, intermingled in the conversations is actually big people like it. And it's helpful because I interact, right. But when I, but when you don't do a thing you're supposed to do with my mom's care. And she ends up in the hospital and literally almost dies. And then we get back, she somehow makes her way through it. And we're sitting in the meeting, trying to figure out how to not let this happen again, and the answer is if you did your job, it wouldn't have happened. And then they get on and say, You know what, we needed a plan. And I said, you had a plan, you didn't follow it? And they said, Yeah, but we're gonna make a new plan. And I said, Are you going to follow the new plan? And they were like, Well, what we and they just kept pushing the idea of, we need a plan. And I started off very nicely, I remind everybody who was on the call, but when it started, I was pleasant. But about the third time that they insisted that the problem wasn't them. It was that the plan wasn't right. I said, No, you guys have to stop. I was like, that's, that's not what happened here. And I just am not good. I've said this in the podcast, I am not good at sitting in a room where you're lying to me, and I know it, and I'm lying to you. And you know it, I just, I can't do that. So in today's meeting, I've been told, just to sit there very quietly. So I'm gonna be like, the heavy in the room. Like, imagine we're in a room collecting money from your gambling debts. And you say, Who's the guy in the corner? Because you think the guy in the corner is gonna break your hand. I'm gonna play that part today. I'm just gonna say hello to everybody and then not say anything. And then all the nice people in my family are gonna nice it up for me.
Holly 32:27
Anyway, good luck to them.
Scott Benner 32:28
Thank you. Because I just made that happen. That sucks. Oh, it was terrible. Like, I'm not kidding. Like she was in the hospital, delirious, throwing things, not herself, minute to minute didn't remember what happened a minute before. You know, the first four days in the hospital, they're like, you know, my brothers. And I got together and talked about her funeral arrangements, like like that. And then I'm on a call with somebody who's like, well, she's great. I'm like, Yes, but I still had to get on a call with my brothers and decide if my mom was going to be cremated or buried. And now we're all gonna sit here and pretend it. It's all fine, we'll make a new plan. So anyway, I yelled at them a lot. And got things in line. That call did not go well, from that point, from their perspective. And at the end, I they were like, well, what do you want to do? And I said, No, I'm not in charge. Like, what do you want to do? Like I don't, I said, I said, Actually, I think what I said was, Do I ask you to come to my job and do it for me? And they were like, what? And I'm like, I'm not doing your job, you do your job. That's all I want from you. You do your job. Don't kill my mom. At one point, my brother reminded me. So my mom got a UTI. Okay, she's at and almost killed her. My brother reminds me that at some point during the conversation with the people, he says, Scott, you told them the entire story of mom's life in 35 seconds, leading up to her beating cancer last year, and then said, If my mom dies from her ASPI and dirty, I'm not sure how well I'm going to handle that. And there was a pause. And he said, and then he goes, and then you said, So cancer couldn't kill her. But you guys are going to. And anyway, my wife says, I can't say that in meetings with people. So
Holly 34:17
I would I think your wife is correct. That is probably probably not going to engender feelings of hey, let's go the extra mile for this family.
Scott Benner 34:29
I thought they would just do it out of fear. And by the way, they did for three weeks. For three weeks. They did what they were supposed to do. And you know why we're having this meeting again, because they stopped doing what they were supposed to do. And my mom got that was only found out because we were paying attention very, very closely at this time because we know, accreditation. I mean, it's a state. It's a facility that is accredited by the state. And you know, there's actually
Holly 34:56
if I were if I I mean, I'm not a lawyer Hey, and not in that situation don't even know what state it is. But you know, that is usually what they're afraid of. They're not afraid of individuals. They're afraid of the accreditation board.
Scott Benner 35:09
Yeah, one woman in the call. I remember her saying, no one's ever spoken to me like this before. And I said, Oh, I'm sorry. This is the first time I've had to deal with someone trying to kill my mom. Am I not being polite enough? I didn't, it would have made a great podcast. Holly was not a great personal meeting between caregivers and family. I lost my temper. And anyway, I will not apologize. Point being we got off on a tangent. I didn't mean to do that. Okay, so you
Holly 35:39
are saying your whole podcast about tangents?
Scott Benner 35:41
Yeah, but I like to pretend that that's not what it is. No, okay. I act like this is part of the diabetes. This is the stick. I'm like, Oh, how did we get down this road? You want to know the truth? Everyone listening? Here's the truth. You can't make an entertaining podcast about diabetes completely.
Holly 35:58
Doesn't work. That's why I like yours. It's very funny.
Scott Benner 36:02
Thank you very much. Why am I reading here that you dropped out of school? What school?
Holly 36:07
I dropped out of university and and went to work on a sailboat.
Scott Benner 36:15
Alright, so now you're the second person that's worked on a sailboat on the podcast. Oh, really? Yeah. One girl. I thought I did for you. This girl. It would happen so long ago. She found it in a magazine.
Holly 36:29
Oh, she went to school on a sailboat. I remember that way. Right? Right.
Scott Benner 36:33
They took her to the Bahamas, like I think she flew to the Bahamas and then came back up the coast or something like that. And her doctor changed her insulin during the the trip. And they they mailed it to a port where they knew she was crazy stuff like that.
Holly 36:48
I loved it. So no, mine was mine was not that organized. Say I just I needed to. I needed a break. I had been, I'd spent two years at university in at Queens, which will mean something to people in Canada, but it's this very waspy school. And I worked there both summers too. So I hadn't left this college town for two years, I needed to do something different. And I also needed to make money. So so I could keep going to school. So I dropped out, planning to come back. And I did end up coming back, although it was mainly because I broke my ankle. And so I had to go back to school. Whereas if I hadn't broken my ankle, I probably would have taken the job I was offered to crew in the South Pacific. And then I'd be having a very different life.
Scott Benner 37:34
Wow. Instead, you came back and finished what degree
Holly 37:38
my first degree, my undergrad degree was in engineering and math and mechanical engineering. And then I worked as an engineer for a while, okay, and then went back to grad school and got a that funding basically to do some work in health related to health. I was still in engineering, but I was doing more human computer interaction, and then did a postdoc in social science and health. And now I'm faculty and in med school.
Scott Benner 38:04
Wow. Tell me what the lore of the boat was that almost got you to leave all those impressive things that you just said,
Holly 38:12
Oh, well, very impressive, because they're because of the way our society is structured. But I mean, there are, I don't know, what's your fun, going places is fun.
Scott Benner 38:22
Forget what society thinks though. Like you were on your way to being like a, like I'm looking you know, you seem safe indoors. You know, your hair's been washed, you're having decent life is what I'm saying. And you were very grateful. But if you think if you didn't break your ankle, you would have just taken a different job and go on a completely different path. I was like, it wasn't drugs. It was just boys. Was it? Nothing. It was just the thing. You liked it.
Holly 38:48
I just liked it. Yeah. So I wanted to go somewhere. I wanted to be somewhere else.
Scott Benner 38:54
So how long did you do it for before your ankle?
Holly 38:57
So I was on the boat. So I I had a period of time where I was working at a manufacturing plant to make more money. And then we left for Florida where the boat was dry, docked, thinking December and I broke my ankle and it was it was about four, four or five months.
Scott Benner 39:15
Okay. All right. So it was still romantic notion. You hadn't been there that long, maybe two years into it, you would have been like, Okay, I want to be an engineer. I didn't want to work for that. I didn't want to work on that boat for very long. Oh, about a bigger, nicer, happier experience. You
Holly 39:30
know, just different different captain.
Scott Benner 39:32
Oh, what's that? Is that politics? Is it
Holly 39:36
so the captain of the boat so the boat that I was working on? Was my I was first mate and cook. And so I did everything that the captain didn't want to do. It was a little 47 foot sailboat, and he would have his friends come and they would stay on board for two weeks at a time. And they would pay enough just to cover sort of costs food fuel Yeah, you know, my pathetic salary, stuff like that. And he was from East Germany, he had defected and moved to Canada and made a bunch of money in real estate, and was very particular. And so he would do things like, you know, call me over after I'd cleaned the clean this the soul, so the floor inside the boat, and when he was inspecting it with a flashlight, and he would show me the spots that I'd missed.
Scott Benner 40:27
Oh, lovely. So I used to do graphic design for a guy who would spend the first 27 days of the month brainstorming, which we later learned been drinking during the day. And then he would spend the last 72 hours standing over my shoulder. Like watching me work so that I'd meet his deadline. And I'm good under pressure because of that. Oh, well, you know, skills, but it was, it was unpleasant. I got him fired. Did I ever tell that story on here? I don't know. That's such a good story. If I never told that story, somebody write me a note. Because I'll tell you. Yeah, he screwed me and I screwed him back. Yeah, sort of like the meeting at that day. It probably wasn't smart enough to push me the rest of the way. Anyway, not the point. Okay, so you end up back at school? And now you? I mean, what, what is your, I guess, tell me a little bit about your job right now, my current job, or the one that talks directly to the other thing you want to talk about which you said to me and your note that you'd like? It says getting doctors to provide better diabetes care. I have some academic work on this. And I have some funny stories personally. So oh, gosh, do you remember writing that?
Holly 41:42
I vaguely it was a really long time ago, it was at least Yes, I do have I do have work on that. So my postdoc, so my current job, my current job. I'm a I'm a professor at a med school. And so I do primarily research, I teach a little bit, I mostly teach health professionals. So doctors, nurses, you know, physiotherapists, people who are in training to become health professionals. And I do a little bit of continuing professional education to so people who are already practicing. So we did do a study where my postdoc, and I, and another and a med student, did video interviews with people with diabetes, type one and type two. And ask them a bunch of questions. And one of the questions we asked was, What could health professionals do better? What could they do to provide better care to people with diabetes? And then we took all those video interviews, and we stitch them together into sort of like a learning module. And then we tested it we trialed it with with med students, and it helps them respond to clinical scenarios of people with diabetes better. So what's your
Scott Benner 42:48
opinion of when people have poor interactions with doctors, doctors that appear not to know how to help them? Why do you think that is? Why can I figure out more than a doctor can figure out
Holly 43:02
about management about anything? About anything?
Scott Benner 43:05
Why do I go in? And why do I go in and say, hey, here are my symptoms? And they're like, Hey, take this. And then in then I go home and go, no, no, that turns out, this is impacting that. And I don't need a medication for the second thing, I need the first thing to not happen that's happening because of this. Here's how you stop it. And then I have to go back to them, explain it to them, and then smile like a puppy and hope they write the right prescription for me. Why is it work that way? Oh, gosh,
Holly 43:32
I mean, I think so you're talking about your experience in the US system, which is a different a different system than other countries. But I do think that it is common for people to have negative experiences in healthcare systems. There are a lot of reasons it happens. Some of them are the fault of system level factors. So things like there is not enough time. Right? Right. So especially in primary care, those health professionals do not are not paid enough to be able to pay their nurses and pay their staff and that sort of thing and run a clinic in a way that would allow them to spend the time with people to really get like to really unpack what's happening with that person, because it takes time.
Scott Benner 44:18
Yeah. Here's my idea. Tell me if it's yeah, I held this idea for a while I've said it to a couple of people using diabetes as an example. I think instead of you coming to a 1520 minute, 30 minutes if you're lucky. appointment where you come in, and then the first couple of minutes is spent with that I forgot Hello, while they're trying to like look at the chart and remember who the hell you are, you know, and then it's how's it going? They don't care. They're just looking at what your last day latency was and what they talked about the notes they made about you and you're sitting there thinking that this is like one of your best friends the whole world and they're busy going like that. I don't remember this person at all. And like that part ends. There's the first five minutes, then how's it going? And then you say the things you've been holding inside the whole time they go. Ah, uh huh. Okay. Yeah, well, everything looks fine here. And then and then that ends and what scripts do you need? That's really why you're there. What do you need? Do you need insulin? Do you need insulin? Do you need test strips? Do you need a CGM? Tell me what you need. Where do I send it? Like, this is what it is? I think we should this is gonna sound weird. So I'm just gonna say we should all just sign a HIPAA waiver, go into one room, spend the whole day, all of us. So if the doctor sees 20 people a day, in eight hours, then there should be a six hour supposing them with those 20 people where they've done that, why wouldn't Why not more, every time on Tuesday, he should do it with the next 20 people. And on Wednesday,
Holly 45:53
you should talk to you should talk to the people at the courier unit at Mayo Clinic. Okay. Victor mentoree, his group has done this. So one of my good one of my best colleagues here, Angela, she worked with him for a long time. And she ran. She ran a trial of this in maternity care, it works really well. They've done it in type two diabetes care, it works really well. Not quite what you're talking about. But but pretty similar, right? So this idea of group based care, where you do go through, and you do look at people's labs and that sort of thing. And then you and then people ask questions. And I think you're right, because, you know, it happens all the time. Because you could people ask questions that you didn't realize you had until someone else asks it,
Scott Benner 46:38
you can basically replicate the podcast and what it does for people in real life. Because then everyone would ask somebody will ask a question. They'll get their answer. Five people who had the question didn't know they had the questions, they'll get the answer. Five people who had the question would never have been able to raise their hand because they're, for whatever reason, they get the answer. Somebody else asks you keep going. There's people around the side of the room to do breakouts, if you need somebody to talk to. It lasts all day, you get a lunch, it'd be beautiful. Is it because we can't bill for?
Holly 47:09
I don't know enough about how us Yeah, why. But billing problems would definitely be one of the issues. The issue around I mean, I don't think it works for everyone. But I think you're right, I think yeah, it would work for a lot of people, maybe not all day, but like half a day.
Scott Benner 47:25
Couple years ago, before it right before COVID, I was getting ready to go on. Like, I must have spoken at nine things and like a calendar year. And I hadn't done it a while. So I just let a listener find, like a space near me. And I told people, I'll be here to talk about diabetes on this day. Because basically, I need practice given my thing again, and talking to people. And I think someone found a church, they like shook the space out of them for free. I showed up, no one murdered me that was delightful. And you know, there at the end, maybe 4050 people came to this. And I still know a number of them. Like they still listen to the podcast. And in like two hours, you can just like pick someone up and move them to a new a new place in their understanding. You know, I'm thinking about a woman who drove I don't know if you know, the, the geography enough, but a woman who listened still whose son is now an adult, but then three or four years ago is probably a high school students still, she drove from Long Island, like out on Long Island in New York, to a place in Pennsylvania that somebody found for me that I was close enough to that I could make it to and spent the night like, put like a whole thing into it, you know, and her I just talked to her recently, her son's doing terrific. You know, like so I just think that 20 minutes at a time when the first five minutes is like, hey, and the last time and it's just like, tell me what scripts you need. Hurry up. I don't think anything really happens. So I mean, I don't see anybody really being helped. Yeah, I see people being maintained. Yep. You know, I see. I think that's fair. Yeah, I see people being they get lost. And because you really are left to go home and fill in the spaces on your own. And listen, I'm just gonna say it plainly. Apparently. I don't know how to otherwise do that. I guess I could have nice this up somehow. I don't think some people are capable of filling in the gaps. Right? And even me, who you might be like, Oh, he understands diabetes. Like look at the look at the opportunities I had, like, like my wife. I was just stay at home father. I had time, right that I wrote a blog. So it was important for me to pay attention to diabetes, then I made this podcast so it's important for me to take these diabetes like you don't mean like I I'm immersed in it constantly, like I used to say all the time. Like the podcast is more valuable for me than it is for you. But then I keep the podcast going and try to give it back to you again. But you all are really allowing me to stay immersed into it. I just think that's what people need any more time they need more conversations, they need to hear other people. And you need to hear things said in a bunch of different ways. So that one of them, like flips your switch, you know, anyway, yeah, no, I agree. Also that I'm writing to me, I said that I'm right there, why won't these people?
Holly 50:20
Right, and there are there have been I mean, there have been trials of that form of care that do show promise. I don't know enough about the funding model to understand why it isn't adopted more widely. I do know, it's really, really hard to implement new things in healthcare. Yeah, like, just ridiculously difficult. There's a whole science, it's called implementation science. Like people have whole careers in how do you get people to do the right thing in healthcare? Which is depressing as heck
Scott Benner 50:51
yeah, I'm gonna pull something up, first of all, because I want to talk to you about it. But you almost you almost booted just now. Thank you very much. Did I keep very close to giving me a Canadian about
Holly 51:02
you're very close to it? I could switch into French if you prefer. I know
Scott Benner 51:06
people listening who would prefer that, but I would not. Because I can only cancel like nine after three years. So I will
Holly 51:14
give you my husband's best best joke. Okay, back for a while now. Why do why do people in France only eat one egg for breakfast?
Scott Benner 51:24
Because one egg is enough. There you go. Thank you. Well, then, three years, three years in high school. Yeah, I ran a survey, fairly informal survey of people who listen to the podcast. I did it with, with a with a Hopkins student who was lovely and wanted to help the podcast somehow. So she helped me get it together. And when we first started doing it, and I'll brag here for a second, she said, How many people do you want to take the survey? And I said, I don't know, like 500. And she goes, you're not gonna get 50. And I said what she was big institutions have a lot of trouble getting people to take surveys. And I was like, are why one five? Yeah. So I got 1100 people to respond. And I could have kept going, I could have kept going. But I was like, at this point. It's actually just for my ego, because we have enough data. So we stopped. I'm not going to go through everything with you. But she written it up. Not yet. She she would love to see that or be great. Had a parent pass away unexpectedly. So but no, so we're working towards it. Your level of education, you know, the background stuff, What's your connection to diabetes? parent and caregiver I have type one was almost 5050. So for all the people who were like your podcast is just for parents because you're the parent. Not true. I knew it wasn't. It was Yeah, I knew it wasn't but nobody listens to me. You know, everybody using CGM or pomp. So how are you doing? It? Is our family history type one, type two, we go through those sorts of things. Do you have other autoimmune diseases overwhelmingly, thyroid, autoimmune thyroid, celiac, were wanting to others. Eight 766 of the respondents had something other autoimmune that wasn't on the list of like 10 things that I gave them to list. I threw in bipolar disorder because of my I know it's not technically auto immune. But I don't know how many people have to tell me that they're bipolar and they have type one before I'm interested 2121 people out of 1100 listed bipolar. Anyway, what was your your beginning a one C and your lowest a one C right. Before you begin listen to the podcast. You know, what was your highest? What was your lowest? Before you began listening to the podcast, and just highest 10 Lowest seven two highest seven six, lowest seven to highest 13? Lowest 8.9 highest 5853? It's all over the place, right? Like there's there's no there's nothing where you say Oh, only people in this scenario are listening to the podcast. How often do I get my Atrio uncIe checked? Most people do it every three months. Only a handful of people don't track there. Ha are there HBA one see, after beginning to listen to the Juicebox Podcast How did your agency change 960 People improved 175 same eight went up. And I just had somebody write to me and say it's unfair. I put went up because it was the right answer. But I was honeymooning and so my once that's normal. Yeah. And I was like that's terrific. But but she goes to tell me in the in the message. She's like the only reason why a one sees in the fives is because of the podcast, but it just went up because I was honeymooning prior, I was like okay, and then everyone beginning to listen to the podcast and now what was your one? See after three months after this thing? These numbers are insane. seven to five Half and a half, six to five and a half goes on and on and on. Like it really is. It's terrific. And I'm trying to child it. I don't know anything about what I'm doing. Do you have not gotten that from the podcast yet?
Holly 55:14
But I'm sure like, you can run a little like if you had an academic and academic partly like the students. Right? What is she doing a masters or a PhD?
Scott Benner 55:23
Think she just finished her master's in public health?
Holly 55:26
Is she going to do a PhD?
Scott Benner 55:28
I think she was thinking about it when I was talking to her. Okay. Yeah. So,
Holly 55:31
you know, like a little pilot RCT of randomized controlled trial of people who are, you know, randomly assigned to listen to like the Pro Tip series? Yeah. And then people who are randomly assigned to does the ADA have a podcast, you have to do something sort of semi equivalent.
Scott Benner 55:49
There's nothing equivalent to this podcasts as well. I know, but you have to give them something.
Holly 55:52
Okay. Right. You can't just say Comcast versus nothing.
Scott Benner 55:56
Okay. I understand. I see. I take any fact I do, too. I take your point. I'm trying to figure out everything. So what is my health care team? So everybody lists who they see for their health care? And then you get into, I asked this question, what motivates people to make positive changes? Overwhelming, either a health concern or a loved one? Right, like 979, you could answer more than once. 979 health concerns for a loved 1707 everything else. So the podcasts,
Holly 56:28
selecting from from predetermined options, they could choose
Scott Benner 56:31
health care, health concerns, loved ones, pregnancy, the podcast, other print or online materials, clinical education received from a medical professional connection to diabetes community, other 790 of them listed the podcast.
Holly 56:46
That is amazing. That's great. So I do think it's funny, because I've heard you say this before about people doing people making changes for someone else. And so I just wanted to plant the seed for you that it can people can do things for other people. And sometimes, when someone else comes into your life, what it helps you realize is that you are worthy of care. Yeah. Right. So it's sort of like,
Scott Benner 57:12
I hope they get that out of the conversation. I just, I always ask it that way. Because I want them to realize that they were in a situation that was not optimal, that they could have fixed it anytime on their own, but needed a next year, like a, like an influence to make them go, oh, I should take better care of myself. I just think that's a very human thing.
Holly 57:34
Yeah, I do. But I also think, well, I don't know. And I mean, obviously, we're all influenced by our own experience. But for me, like a big a big thing has always been that, you know, like, I've always tried my best. But I didn't always know what I was doing. I went, you know, years, I went over a decade without having any diabetes professional. Yeah. 10 years, right. And so knowing it, the belief that I am worthy of care is a really core important thing. And not everyone gets that like, not everyone. Not every child grows up feeling that way. And so I think that that also influences how people live as adults with type one.
Scott Benner 58:18
Yeah. I just made a note for myself. I'll talk to Erica about that in an episode. The therapist I talked to, yeah, yeah. Let's see, I there's one thing I want to one other thing I want to tell you out of that, where do you learn how to operate your diabetes devices? Average answer 5.6. It's out of out of six 5.07. From the podcast next closest 3.53 From a medical professional.
Holly 58:48
Yeah. Well, they don't they don't spend a lot of time on this stuff. Like, I always think I've always said this, that I get the what, from my health professionals. But I get the how, from the diabetes community.
Scott Benner 59:00
Yeah. But they don't tell you that that's not the lit, they don't at the end, they don't go, Hey, I didn't tell you nearly enough. You have to go find out the rest on your own.
Holly 59:09
So I've definitely gotten that. And I've had some really good endos over the years, but the endos would never be the people to talk to you about your devices. That would be this. That would be the the nursing staff, the diabetes educators. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So if you don't have that kind of care, right. So when I've had that kind of care when I've been going to a, you know, a shop that has the setup to really support people with type one, then I get better care. Yeah, but at other times, I haven't always had that.
Scott Benner 59:40
Who addresses your psychological needs around diabetes management, the podcast overwhelmingly, you know,
Holly 59:48
well, it's amazing to hear other people's stories. Yeah, I really was.
Scott Benner 59:51
I really didn't recognize that at the beginning. Oh, yeah. I really thought this podcast was going to be me being like, Listen, Pre-Bolus Yes. Then here's why. He did. Try to understand how pizza hits you, and then understand how that's everything else. And like, and I didn't, it wasn't the people told me, like, seriously the people would come on, it was the first time that an adult was going on and on about how valuable the podcast was for them. And I just was like, obviously, the Pro Tip series, just fix them all up. And she said, No, I knew all that already. And I was like, what? Well, I don't understand how the podcast helped. She goes, I don't really either. She's like, just hearing people talking about it everyday made me want to do a better job. And I was like, Oh,
Holly 1:00:33
I think so. A couple of things. I think that hearing other people, at least for me, and I don't know if other people experienced this. But I started listening to diabetes podcasts, including yours. When I was, you know, I been looping for a few years at that point, I'd lost a bunch of weight. So all my settings were off. And I've been sort of tweaking them, but they weren't quite right. Like, you know, when you know, when your settings are, like close, but not there. And everything's just like, it's not smooth. Sure. Yeah. And I headed in and I'd started perimenopause. So like, everything that used to be really predictable, just went completely to insert expletive. Right. Right. And so I was having a hard time. Something that was helpful about listening to stories, was just like, I'm not the only person who's working hard at this. Now, I'm not the only person who is giving energy to this. And I resented it. Like, I didn't want to have to give energy to this. I've so many things that demand my energy. I didn't want to give energy to diabetes. But I knew I needed to, and hearing other people also giving energy to diabetes made me feel better.
Scott Benner 1:01:46
Yeah. I can't believe how much that's true. Actually. Like, it just it certainly is. It's overwhelmingly true. Just absolutely. There's something about that. You saying you didn't want to give energy to it? You think that was a conscious feeling?
Holly 1:02:04
Well, I was consciously aware of it. Yeah. But it wasn't like it wasn't like, I made a conscious decision that I just I was, you know, I was so I mean, you know, heading into perimenopause, you know, you know, like that time of life when you know, you've got I am, I love my job. And I love my students, but it's a lot of work. Ya know, I love my kids, but they're a lot of work, and diabetes, a lot of work. And I only have so much time
Scott Benner 1:02:29
right now. That's kind of what I was trying to eliminate is that I don't think that people, I don't think that they consciously say I'm not going to take good care of myself. I think they want to. And then there are other things that seemed more emergent. And maybe it's partly because of time and effort and desire. Maybe it's because they grew up not feeling valuable. And they don't think they're, you know, deserving of the effort. You know, I don't know. Anyway, I don't know how the other things gonna work so well. But do you frequently listen to other diabetes? Podcasts? No. 1071? So Wow.
Holly 1:03:07
Did your did your student explained selection bias to you?
Scott Benner 1:03:11
Yeah, I do understand that. I know that this isn't a real thing. Right?
Holly 1:03:15
That's a real thing. What are you talking about? That's a real thing? Well, so you just you have to like anytime you run a survey, right? What's really important with surveys is your sampling frame. Right? And how you get people to how you invite people to take the survey, who sees the invitation, who decides to participate, that sort of thing. So you can't claim that the survey population is representative of the larger population of people with type one. Right? Right. But it's not it's it's a real thing.
Scott Benner 1:03:46
My wife is, you know, she's delighted and telling me that she loves making me unhappy. I don't know why I think it's because we've known each other a long time. And so I wasn't an
Holly 1:03:57
image sounds different.
Scott Benner 1:03:58
I wasn't unaware of that. I also don't think she delights in making me unhappy. It just feels that way. Do you ever point something out? And you're like, I shouldn't have said that.
Holly 1:04:09
Yeah, I was
Scott Benner 1:04:11
just teasing. But. So I get that, that people like, voraciously clicked on the link, because they love the podcast already. But I think the point I wanted to make out of that is if you listen to the podcast, apparently this is how you feel. If you've enjoyed it, and it's an it's struck you, right? I'm not saying that if you randomly if I randomly went out and grabbed 1000 People who had diabetes, and gave them the podcast that they'd all love it. I'm sure half of them would hate it. And you know, some of them wouldn't like me or some of them wouldn't jive with how I I know that would all happen. I don't know that. That's important. Because when we're talking about this many people, right, even if it was one in 10 Even if one in 10 people had this experience, then that makes the is very, very valuable those other people, because you what you want to think is, well, those other nine people will find something else that will help them. But that is not necessarily true. It's helpful. And I hope that the online material helped them or they read a book and it helped them or, or another podcast, whatever. Right. But I don't know, like, I just don't know, I don't know another place where you could grab 1100 people who, like if I put up a survey that said, hey, I want you to take a survey about your doctor. And it's got nothing to do with me. I don't think 1100 of them would so overwhelmingly say yes, I found help from this doctor and the rest. And so I am completely aware of what you're saying. This was kind of more for me than anything else.
Holly 1:05:49
I think you know, my beautiful. Yeah. So thank you, oh, well, cuz you've poured your heart and your life into making this.
Scott Benner 1:05:56
I just wanted to see like, because then the other thing was at the end, someone said, Hey, can you put a place where we can like leave a message? And I almost think all these numbers. I don't know how important they are. I think you should read the messages. Oh, you know,
Holly 1:06:13
I'm sure I can't because I'm sure the ethics, the IRB approved it. So I'd particulars around who gets to see the data. But it sounds amazing.
Scott Benner 1:06:21
I'm just the one looking at it. Like nobody else has seen it. But if you saw the feedback, like, like, people start in such a hole, and then they go to a doctor and say helped me. I don't know, like there. Unless I'm wrong. You shouldn't. That story should never end with Oh, and then I found a podcast and everything's okay. Now, that seems wrong to me. Maybe that isn't maybe that's how maybe that's how this is going to work? Like, you know. Yeah, I don't know, in the future.
Holly 1:06:50
People in healthcare settings are constrained. Right, and what they can say and what they can do. That isn't to say they couldn't do better. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I do think I mean, so let me let me give you a compliment that, because I review a lot of papers, and a lot of grants. And a word that often sort of bothers me, when academics use it is empowerment, right? We are going to empower patients, because very often, especially in grants, when I am reading this grant, and they're saying we're going to empower patients. Often what it means is, we're going to figure out a way to make these patients do what we know they should do. That's often the underlying subtext of what they need. And I think what you are doing is actual impairment, because you don't really care. You just want to help people. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:07:48
that's the first thing. I think it's really lovely. She said, Well, thank you, you're very nice. The person who helped me she's like, you know, like, academia is not going to care about this. And I said, oh, did I give you the impression that I cared about that? And, and she's like, what I'm like, I don't care what the establishment thinks of it. Some people will. Yeah, and that's lovely. But like, overall, she's like, you know, she's like, they're, they're not, the questions aren't exactly asked correctly. Like, in the end, I'm like, I don't care. I'm like, it's not, I'm just trying to check to make sure I'm doing what I think I'm doing. That's all because it's gotten too big now. Like, you know, like, when it was smaller, I could like talk to more people and like, okay, you know, I see, there's a group of people feel this way, this group through this, I could, I could kind of feel like it's too big now, like, I don't, I need to make sure the ship is still going in the direction. I think it's going in, and I can't I'm not trying to diss I'm not trying to help everyone. I don't think that's possible. I'm trying to help the people who intersect well with the information. That's all and, and look for ways to, I'll tell you what people do not like, it's easy to say, I asked him about different series, the series that get the worst grades are about how people eat, and about the afterdark stuff. But people also love the afterdark stuff. So what they said in the survey, and what I see in the downloads did not coincide.
Holly 1:09:16
Well, I think that's quite I mean, I think what you're what you're speaking to, is that not everything that you put out is going to resonate with everyone. Sure. Yeah. Right. But there are there are people who, who, with whom those different things may resonate. I think my favorite episode was in the how we it was like a vegan cat. Yes. It was so funny. Oh,
Scott Benner 1:09:37
thank you. Well, please.
Holly 1:09:39
Was that a family?
Scott Benner 1:09:40
I don't remember it was how we Yeah. Vegan cat. Yes.
Holly 1:09:44
Oh, it's killed myself. Like I listened to it while I was reading. I almost fell down.
Scott Benner 1:09:48
Well, thank you. That's very nice. There's party here. I'll share this with you. I don't think the people listening are the best arbiter of what they should hear. No, because they because they don't if they knew they wouldn't need it. Does that make sense?
Holly 1:10:04
Maybe? Yeah, no, that's a fair point. That's your point.
Scott Benner 1:10:06
You don't? I'm sorry. I was gonna say a person who knows what they need, does it? They don't go looking for answers about it.
Holly 1:10:14
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, no one should ever ask questions, though.
Scott Benner 1:10:19
No, it means that it means that I'm in a unique position to know what will help you before you know what will help you.
Holly 1:10:28
Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. That's not impairment, though.
Scott Benner 1:10:31
No, it's not. But it helps me it helps me structure the podcast. Yeah. And then after that, you do whatever you want with it. And that's where I say like, go like, you're an adult, do your thing. Like, you'll be okay. You can do this. Like, that's where all the empowerment comes into. But if I, if they needed to see my left hand, and I showed them my right hand and empower them, that wouldn't help them. So I'm like, here's the stuff like, look at this stuff. I know you don't want to listen to I know, nobody wants to listen to the idea that the food they take in is very impactful on their health. Like that's not a thing, like a lot of people don't want to know that they want. I think that I think some people do think there's a large section of people who are very in tune with what they I also think there are a lot of people are like, look, I got diabetes, and I really want to eat a Hohoe. And I need this to work out for me. And please don't tell me not to eat the Hohoe. Like, I'm going to eat it like so help. Yeah. And so I
Holly 1:11:26
do that. I do. I don't know. I do. I don't know. Sorry, my I just keep. So I had, I had my first colonoscopy last week. So my perspective on eating has completely. I did not know how much fiber made a difference in my life until I had to eat really low fiber for a week.
Scott Benner 1:11:47
Oh, yeah. And then everything slowed down and was unpleasant. Well,
Holly 1:11:51
so I like a very healthy high fiber, mostly vegetarian diet. And my fiber went down by 74%. And my insulin to carb ratio went up by 70%.
Scott Benner 1:12:05
Yeah, there's a strong correlation between people who eat very like vegan like that, and not eating a ton of events that you can take it a lot of carbs, and still have low variability and things like that. Oh, yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. Okay.
Holly 1:12:21
Yeah, but I didn't I you know, it just I knew intellectually, that fiber is great. Fiber is good for you. And it's good for blood sugar management, but I'd never seen it in my graphs. Until, you know, I'm stuck eating white toast and eggs. And all of a sudden, I'm going all over the place. So they
Scott Benner 1:12:41
need to eat.
Holly 1:12:43
So here the deal is you have to eat low residue, and like, they gave you the list. And I'm like, what, like, there's nothing on this that I actually eat. So I probably could have done more I could, I was just, I was just like, Okay, I mean, eat toast and eggs and yogurt.
Scott Benner 1:12:58
And you so you got like fat from the, from the yogurt more so than normal, you got the spike from the toast. And it's not easy to deal with. And so what I meant was, is that I don't think people like to be hit in the face with the reality that that less processed foods will lead to easier days. Yeah, with diabetes. I think that's the thing that I think that it's important to deal with this the way I talk about it, which is you're going to eat however you want to eat. That's not up to me. I think you need to just understand how insulin works with your diet. Like that, to me is the best thing you can do. But then when I put out the how we eat episodes, I think people saw it as like, don't tell me how to eat. And I was like, I'm not telling you how to eat. I'm telling you. This is how this lady eats. Like, yeah, and here's her story. Maybe you'll find something in it.
Holly 1:13:49
I will say the title like how we eat was a little weird. I'm like, what? Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:13:53
well, how we, everybody. This is how everybody eats. This person needs this way this person needs that way.
Holly 1:14:02
I think what it evokes is an eye in the type one community when you meet people who have who are very much about how they eat. They're not always the most enjoyable people to talk to. So that might be part of what's coming out. They're like the people who are just like, let me tell you about my eating style. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:14:24
no, no, I somebody telling you about their eating style was like listening to a like a reformed like alcoholic explain. Yeah, drinking. Just like I yeah, I don't. I don't. It's fine.
Holly 1:14:34
There's some there's some zealotry out there. Yeah, it is not. And I'm really happy for people who have something that works for them. I just, you know, Oh, yeah. And I think sharing that information in a way that's like, hey, this really works for me is great. I worry sometimes about the everyone should do this.
Scott Benner 1:14:53
Yeah, I've learned that the Internet doesn't work the way people are scared. The internet works. But I mean, what do I mean? Okay? There's a there's a phrasing that people use. I've noticed online that and they say that like, it's this thing that is definitely happening in the world because I saw it, I saw it like three times definitely is happening. It's like when somebody tells you this code for Dexcom CGM is bad. It's a randomized code that gets put on. It's not like there's a box of CGM somewhere and they make it like this code number. And all of them in there have the same. I don't know, they act the same way. But people think that way. So you see,
Holly 1:15:34
what's a calibration? It's it's basically it sort of like a fudge factor.
Scott Benner 1:15:38
Yeah. But my point is, they get these four digit codes, right. So so so somebody will come out and say, I noticed that this number isn't good. And they'll literally they'll come to that conclusion, because they have one that didn't last 10 days, and had that number on it. And online, they saw somebody else say that there's didn't last that long. And it also had the same number. So see if the number
Holly 1:16:00
or well they would be coming from the same batch, wouldn't they
Scott Benner 1:16:03
know, I think they're randomized. I believe they're just random,
Holly 1:16:07
random. Why would they why would they have a random number?
Scott Benner 1:16:11
It's no, I'll talk to him. But it's the code that it's just the code that connects the CGM to anyway, I used the bad example. Here's my next exam. Yeah,
Holly 1:16:20
I think you're trying to make the point that people draw large draw very generalized conclusions from like, minor interactions online, and they assume that everything is like that. And it's not.
Scott Benner 1:16:31
So I know, a lot of people who eat low carb who aren't crazy. Yeah, me too. And just because the same 10 People are ringing a bell and lighting fires and telling you, you have to eat low carb, or you're killing yourself doesn't mean that everybody who eats low carb feels that way. But it feels like that when you're online that's happening. And yeah, I think it can it can, you know, it feels like, look, you know, every time I mentioned this, there's always an argument. And I always say like, Did you not notice you're always arguing with the same five people? Like, it's, it's not like the whole world's against you. And every time you say it out loud, we learned that the whole world doesn't agree with you. It's these five people who just believe that they're using their online influence, to say something that is very important to them, right? Like they are struggling, and they're not now. And it's because of this thing. And it turns into proselytizing. They're like, you have to do this, because it worked for them. And it's not to say that it won't work for somebody else. It might it's the veracity comes from they think it saved their life. You know, and like, like I might have, and it very it very well might have been there's nothing wrong with it. But you can't do what you just said like you can't let the masses think there's one way to do a thing. Because the first time you tell somebody, if you don't eat like this, you can't control your blood sugar. If that person's like, well, I can't eat like that. Then they just give it away, then they're like, well, then I guess I don't get to. I don't get to I don't get to be healthy. You know, because I'm not going to eat this way. And I think they give up. And that is important. It's the one thing I don't allow on the Facebook group is you can't tell people how to eat. On the Facebook group. If somebody comes on. It's like, look, I'm trying to Bolus for a Slurpee and a pretzel at a 711. If you know how to do that, tell them and if it is your inclination to tell them not to eat it. You can't do that. Like that doesn't help. Their eating. It's too late. Yeah, now that now if you can tell them how to Bolus work great. And if you can't, then shut up and leave. And so I'm
Holly 1:18:40
very impressed at someone who can Bolus first locrian a pretzel Did
Scott Benner 1:18:43
I hit we when we were in on a trip with our family? Just now. We all went to a movie one night, and art and standing there and she goes, I'm going to get that Mountain Dew. I see. Like, yeah, she was I am I'm getting that. And I was like, Okay, so the girl comes over and she goes, Do you want the artists like what sizes they come in? And the girls like large and medium? And artists like oh, okay, I'll get a large. Well, I don't know what world these Oh my god. I mean is as big as my monitor. It was like, like, two people had to carry it. It's just juice. This is this giant thing. And I was like, Can you Bolus for that? And she's like, Yeah, I think so. And I was like, Okay, so that's awesome. gave herself an insane amount of insulin. And then when and basically, you're basically doing it. I don't know how to explain this. I do not explain this. It's um you know, when you have a high blood sugar and you put an insulin to push it down, right? Yeah. Okay. Or you have a low blood sugar is probably a better example. You have a low blood sugar and you put food in to push it up. So you create the possibility of the low without with the Bolus. And then you feed it up with the Slurpee, right. Instead of trying to think about how do I conquer the Slurpee. Yeah, with insulin, I think about it as how do I conquer the insulin with the Slurpee? In that? It's a it's a slight difference. But it's important, right? So she just gave herself a, and you ask like people would be like, well, how much? I don't know, a lot. Like, because how many carbs are that? I have no idea. How are we going to find out? I have no idea. So you just give yourself a bunch of insulin, and then you keep feeding the insulin. You wouldn't do that in your regular life. But to conquer this one thing? Yeah, this is how you do
Holly 1:20:32
it. It's like holiday holiday management. Right? Here, when you hear people say, like, an extra insulin. And then
Scott Benner 1:20:38
I'm gonna, I'm gonna jack up my basil a little bit today, because I'm going to be grazing all day. Like, it's the same kind of idea. It's just finding a balance between the insulin and the food.
Holly 1:20:46
It's interesting now for old time, like, those of us who are old, like, you know, I grew up in the, you eat these foods at this time. Right? Right. So it's an interesting transition.
Scott Benner 1:20:59
Also, not for nothing. But for many of the people who tell me they grew up the way you do. They all have your body style. Like your fit. Yeah, I'm right about that. Right. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so are Jenny talks about it Jenny's fit, like she she ate, she ate? Well, diabetes, because of the technology of the time, including insulin. diabetes forced her to eat well, and that's just how she eats now. And now we're in a situation where it's 2023. And, you know, nutrition is not the same as it was. And by the way, maybe it wouldn't have been the same for Jenny. If she didn't have diabetes, I have no idea, right? But it's not the way it's just not the way it is anymore. Like there's so much processed food, people have so much access to food, there's so much snacking, like that kind of stuff, because it's all available, available available. My stance is just what I said earlier. Like, I don't know that it's right to eat hohos. Like, probably you shouldn't. But in a world where you have diabetes, and you're going to anyway, you should know how to do it without hurting yourself long term, like, blood sugar wise, I'm not saying the Hohoe still not hurting you, which is another thing you have to say to people like, just because you Bolus for it well, doesn't make it not a HoHo.
Holly 1:22:14
Like, right. In addition to in addition to blood sugar, you still have, you know, a cardiovascular system that you may have heard about. Yes.
Scott Benner 1:22:21
And that is a problem like for diabetes is that and I've tried to bring it up as much as I can think to. Yeah, just because you Bolus for it without a spike, and without getting low later doesn't make it a healthy decision. You just stopped it from being a bad diabetes issue. Yeah. Right. And so anyway, there's a way to I get to say all that. I blend it all into the podcast. Yeah. Because if we just settle all at once people get pissed. Yeah, you know,
Holly 1:22:45
so have you, Jenny ever done an exercise? More on exercise? I would love to hear that. We have an exercise process. You did? I did not like it. Yeah. You didn't like her. And I love you. And I really liked your podcast, but I what was wrong with it? I don't know if that was the one. But I will tell you a story. I was heading out on a run. So I run a lot. And I was running, I was heading out on a long run. So I'd had food and I Bolus for it. Before I ate because I was about to run like 2025 kilometers. Yeah. It's takes me about two hours. And I'm listening to podcasts and one of one of yours comes on. And I remember this, I was coming around the corner. And I heard your voice in my ear say, I think you just shouldn't exercise with active insulin on board. And I said out loud, BLEEP you, Scott, how about I just don't live my life then. Some guy walking by it's like, I don't usually talk to podcasts while I'm running. But no, I do think I do think that it is easier. It's easier to exercise without active insulin on board. But then you have to structure your whole life around when you're going to eat or when you're gonna have insulin and that sort of thing. And it makes it very difficult to have an active life.
Scott Benner 1:24:00
Yes. So that's a that's a painting with a broad brush statement. Like because you're Yeah, if you asked me how to do it. Yeah, I wouldn't say that to you. Because you're a person who goes out and runs like some insane amount of distance. Whatever you just said sounded horrible. I don't drive that far. And like so what you just did that? Hey, you just drove that I just drove like 1500 miles round trip. Yeah, but But my point is, like 15 minutes in your car. i My point is, is that is that most people? There's a spot where I'm no better than a doctor really? Who tells you like, here's the launching in place, you're gonna have to figure out the rest of it yourself. Because I don't know everybody's level of exercise. But
Holly 1:24:39
Jenny was like, like, I knew who she was before I heard your podcast, cuz she's known. Yeah. Like she was on the board of set of when I don't remember the name of it, but it was like women athletes with type one. Right? Right. So she knows what she's talking about. I would love to hear like an issue about what she does. How does she manage her blood sugar or On the activity that she does,
Scott Benner 1:25:01
what if she just jumps on and says, I just make sure I don't have any active insulin when I'm running. But if she said that, thanks. So I do think there are people who are like, I mean, I had Chris Freeman on recently. Yeah. Right. He's talking about, like, sucking down goo packs, and like, you know, eating certain things beforehand and keeping his blood sugar higher while he's doing stuff, but not too high. So it doesn't impact how he is. It depends on how much effort you want to put into it.
Holly 1:25:27
Now, that's true. Yeah. But I do think I mean, I think one of the things, and it's very, it's much more old school, right? But you can also use exercise to essentially beef up your insulin. Right? So if you've got a kid who's spiking after a meal, so not tied to play in the play in the yard for a while, you know,
Scott Benner 1:25:47
a lot, some people get pissed about that, when you say that. Oh, really? Yeah, I once watched some, I don't know, because people sometimes tell them what to do. I was gonna say unstable. But I don't know, I just remember, I remember a big, like, it depends on how the information is presented. Like I've had a person on the podcast, who would tell a story about like, I had to run around the house 10 times that of a cookie, like you go, right. Or my mom would make me run up and down the steps five times, and then I could have a snack. In context. People are like, that's great. But one guy one time gets online and says, Hey, I bought my daughter, this mini trampoline to help with their high blood sugars. And before I knew it, people were like, I don't know, like the woke mob got a hold of him. And it's just like you're forcing her to exercise. It only takes one unstable person to say something to draw out for more unstable people to make it seem like the entire internet is full of unstable people. And then one guy who's just like, I just wanted to tell you that there's a $20 Trampoline at Toys R us.com. Please leave me alone, you know, like, like is, is is caught in this thing. So I do know that some people have a sensitivity to that. And what I tried
Holly 1:27:01
different from the you know, you shouldn't need that.
Scott Benner 1:27:05
No, I think everybody's got a sensitivity to something. Yeah. Not that I don't care about their sensitivities. But I don't. I'm just from the wrong generation.
Holly 1:27:15
I'm not I mean, you're about we're about the same age. I'm 51.
Scott Benner 1:27:19
So, same, there are plenty of things in the world that make me uncomfortable, it would never occur to me to ask someone not to do them. If they were like, if it was their thing, you know, but there are plenty of people.
Holly 1:27:32
I just wonder if everyone knows, right, like, you know, that if you you know, if you inject close to your big your big leg muscles, and then you go for a walk, right, that correction factor is gonna hit you,
Scott Benner 1:27:47
right? I have somebody I just recorded with somebody who talked about the heel raises, like you Oh,
Holly 1:27:54
yeah. soleus soleus Caffrey.
Scott Benner 1:27:56
Yeah, how that can help burn blood. Right. And, and that's cool. Like, I'll put that
Holly 1:28:01
I saw that paper that made that paper made made the rounds of the sort of bro science,
Scott Benner 1:28:07
right? 100%. And I'm not saying that it's like, gonna make your blood sugar go from 300 to 150 or something like that. But if you're sitting at your desk, and you do that, and it takes 20 Points off your blood sugar, like cool, you know, and there's a reasonable amount of bike. Yeah. And if it doesn't do that for you, cool. Like, I don't care. I'm like, I'm the girl wanted to say it. Oh, my God said like, it's fine. But I took a risk having her on. Because she's going to be it hasn't been out yet. But she's a person who wears a CGM who doesn't have diabetes? Oh, so so she's gonna come on. Look, there are some stuff she said that was like that kind of like, like, I think. I think there's a difference between bro science and ahead of the curve. Yeah, we also, we also always made it clear to you, but we don't always know which is which at the time, but it doesn't hurt to say them out loud. Like, I mean, she's talked about apple cider vinegar, and how it how it she wasn't talking about type ones. She was talking about general health. And I said, like, what am I going to like? A lot. A number of people who listen to this podcast said, Hey, this girl has been really helpful to me. Okay. Can you have her on the podcast? I'm like, Yeah, sure. I don't know if what she said is right or wrong. Who cares? Like just like, yeah, like so.
Holly 1:29:24
I will just tell you that when I was a teenager, and we moved cities, I did not get set up. I did not. So my mom did not set me up with any diabetes care. But I was encouraged to repeat mantras, about the sweetness of life. So if your podcast goes down that road, I'm going to stop.
Scott Benner 1:29:43
That's where you'll go. Well, you know, somebody asked me that somebody asked me to do affirmations once. Like, could you have short podcasts of just like daily affirmations for people? And I was like, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. I decided with the podcast says here's what the podcast is. It's how I learned to take Care diabetes, do what you want with that. I think type one diabetes is mainly timing and amount of insulin. That's basically what I think it is. I think
Holly 1:30:10
it is. It's just that's that can be really hard to figure out
Scott Benner 1:30:13
unless you turn the whole thing into a bunch of T shirt slogans that everybody can understand. Remember when they need, which is what I feel like I've done? Yeah. And I also know that the conversations are very important, like in this survey, like you'd be surprised people, like I thought people would be like, This is what I want to hear. This is what I want to hear. I love it when two people just talk about diabetes, or I want management conversation, but I let them choose as many as they wanted. And what I learned is that overwhelmingly, they like both did they don't have a preference.
Holly 1:30:46
It's I really liked the ask Scott and Jenny ones
Scott Benner 1:30:49
do. Yeah, we do this. We have. Trust me. We have questions piled up actually, it's so funny. You said that. Yesterday, I said to my wife, I wonder if I could do like ask Scott and Jenny's and put them behind, like a paywall. And so that and then let them out after they're older, because I'm looking for ways to create, you know, some sort of more income like I'm trying to help Jenny's who like, I'd like to be able to gesture and make any money to come on the podcast at all. Like so.
Holly 1:31:19
Although she does I mean, it doesn't it must drive great interest in Integrated diabetes. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:31:25
she's the probably the most, she's probably the most popular person who does what she does in the world. But I think it takes six months to get in with Jenny at this point because of because of the podcast. So its own the business, right? She's lovely. And she doesn't own the business. So it's not like she's piling up money. She's just working harder, get anything. Anyway, so I was thinking about that, but it's nice to hear
Holly 1:31:46
you get a finder's fee, some sort of commission.
Scott Benner 1:31:48
I've mentioned that to her. Like, maybe you want to get a piece in I mean, so anyway, that's between her and whoever she works for. I don't know, I don't know what we talked about.
Holly 1:31:58
It's always sad when something that was free become goes behind a paywall, but I do I mean, I totally understand I
Scott Benner 1:32:04
wouldn't put the whole show behind it like literally just like, like bits and pieces that eventually would come out in the public anyway. Or maybe just I've also thought about pay walling like cursing people. If any idea how many people want me to curse on the podcast,
Holly 1:32:18
that would be that would be smart. I think that would be
Scott Benner 1:32:21
maybe just one word. Nobody believes anything out. And you hear my story about my mom and her dirty ass and I'm and all the words that I used while I was yelling at those people.
Holly 1:32:32
Maybe it's your record that call with them. Oh, okay to listen,
Scott Benner 1:32:37
I'll tell you what, like a car wreck you'd we'll look at it. I was like, but after it was over my brother's like you Okay, and I'm like, how was I not? Okay, I have the very unenviable ability to be angry and make sense at the same time.
Holly 1:32:54
How was that unenviable? That's great. Well, it's
Scott Benner 1:32:56
for me, it's great for the people on the other end, it's bad. So like imagine I unenviable is the wrong word. If you and I were in an argument, and I was agitated, talking quicker than I usually do. Yelling and making sense. How do you keep up with that? Oh, I could keep up you could and then a lot of people that some people can't. And so like I I try not to overwhelm situations because I know. Yeah, I know I can. So I'm joking. I might not be able to keep up. Oh, it's off put my also have a deep voice. So just over the phone. Yeah, I sound like a, like you mentioned earlier like sometimes people listen to men over women. Oh, yeah. Right. And so then you add a deep voice to it. I'm authoritative. I trust myself. So you don't hear a lot of I don't do a lot of things where I'm questioning what I just said. I don't use language to put you in a better position that I'm in. When I'm in having a conversation like that. By that's why when my wife's like, you have to let them feel and I'm like, can't we just point out that they suck.
Holly 1:34:02
And move on to practice because you have a practice meeting. We did it in the car and get all your emotions out.
Scott Benner 1:34:08
We did it in the car yesterday, my brother my brother called I was in the car with Callie, we were driving home from the vacation. And for like 45 minutes. They were like, you can't say that. Don't say that. Don't say that.
Holly 1:34:19
And I was like, no, no, I mean, like an actual practice where they let you say it all. And then you debrief.
Scott Benner 1:34:25
Oh, I said it all and then they debrief me in the car. So it's okay. Anyway, what I decided is I'm just going to treat this situation like it's a podcast. Yeah. Where I wouldn't like purposely insult somebody. Yeah, although sometimes I say some stuff on there sometimes where I'm like, I should have said that. But that often.
Holly 1:34:46
Has anyone ever been offended or upset about it? Right? No. There's a dynamic when you're just joking with people, you know, they feel and it's not I think people like that. I like that.
Scott Benner 1:34:58
We're gonna be done the minute The first thing I'm going to ask you when we're done is your Are you okay? With everything we talked about? No. And if you were to say to me like, I hated this, like, Don't ever let anybody here and I'd be like, All right, I mean, it sucks for me. But I one time, one time, I can tell you afterwards because but one time and conversation took such a strange turn, that it wasn't a fault of any it wasn't. Anyway, I didn't do anything wrong. And it just that we both got to Unreal. Like we shouldn't let anybody listen to that. And I was like, Yeah, I agree. And that was the end of it. So. So it got deleted. Is there anything we didn't talk about that we should have? I don't know. What? Yeah, what about
Holly 1:35:45
one on your podcast has ever explained standard deviation really? Well, even the guy from Dexcom. So he knows what he's talking about. But he's not
Scott Benner 1:35:52
great at explaining. He was a nerd. Like diabetes nerd.
Holly 1:35:57
I mean, as a nerd, I respect what he was trying to do there. All right.
Scott Benner 1:36:03
Find somebody who can more colloquially describe standard deviation.
Holly 1:36:07
Yeah, no, I'm being very nitpicky. My podcast is amazing.
Scott Benner 1:36:10
I'm amazed that you came. I said, my podcast is amazing. I'm amazed you came up with something.
Holly 1:36:16
It is. No, it's I really appreciate it. And I don't you know, I was saying how I found it when I was struggling. You know what, I started with the pro tips. Yeah. And it was not, it wasn't the content, because it wasn't that I didn't know that stuff. It was that I was exhausted. And I needed and I really appreciated the structure of it. I'm like, Okay, I have to do some stuff. I have to work on my set. Okay, basil. All right. This week, I'm gonna focus on basil, you know, and it was just really helpful. So thank you.
Scott Benner 1:36:45
I'm glad I tell you. I was with Arden for like, eight days this week, right. And about two days before it was done. We were at a restaurant. I said, I think I wanted to. I said, I think you know this, but you're doing a very good job with your diabetes stuff at college. And she's like, she didn't really say much. And I said, you do just an exceptionally good job. And I know how difficult it must be. But But I just want to tell you how great you're doing it. And she said, thank you. And I said, I knew I should require no, Arden wouldn't cry if you were stabbing. So by the way, that's not an invitation for someone to stab my kid, please. Anybody pleased? So then, I said, you hear me? Right? And she was Yeah. I said, I'm really it's exceptional what you're doing. And she's like, Okay, I said, having said that, there are two things you're not doing that I need you to do. And I said, You are not Pre-Bolus thing well enough. And she goes, I know I'm trying and I said, I know you are try harder. And and she's nice. And she's like, what else am I not doing? And I said you're not correcting highs quickly enough. And she's like, I get busy with work. And I said, I know. Just she still wasn't she looping? Yeah, she is. But she's eating at a college and the food's terrible. And then she's not Pre-Bolus eating enough. And like in time distance on our Pre-Bolus She's not afraid of insulin, like so. Like, she just doesn't have a long enough Pre-Bolus. And she's seeing a spike. And then she's letting the loop handle it. Which is cool, because it ends up okay, but I'm like, don't do that. Like, it's not as fast as you do it. She's had a small rise in her agency. But I mean to say that it's I think it's like six, two or six, four or something like that.
Holly 1:38:32
college kid. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:38:34
it's amazing. She's doing terrific. But I'm like, we could get back in the fives if you just did these two things. And and she and I said long term health. You know, I'm not pushing her about it. Like I'm getting too slow. But I'm like, it's important for your long term health. And I said, also, you're sitting down trying to do something for three hours at school, and your blood sugar is 180 or 200 for an hour and a half. Like that's not valuable for you. It's making it more difficult for you. So that's it for her.
Holly 1:39:02
I find your focus better woman higher,
Scott Benner 1:39:03
do you really? Yeah, she gets more like hyper focused.
Holly 1:39:07
Like I'm like, Alright, I'm gonna write this paper and it's gonna get done.
Scott Benner 1:39:11
It's like your Adderall is the high blood we see now you earlier said we shouldn't say things that people could misconstrue. Now we're like, leave your blood sugar high to get a nice Adderall effect. No, I.
Holly 1:39:23
I mean, I'm very honest about you know, like, I don't see any. And I do think it's important for parents to understand that, you know, some no one ever asked me, right. How do you feel in your high? Right? No, and had they asked I would have said I feel really good and relaxed and not scared.
Scott Benner 1:39:43
Yeah, no, I think my bigger concern with her being higher in the evenings while she's doing work, isn't it's not the blood sugar as much is it that when it's over and she's refocused on her diabetes, she makes a Bolus then she goes to sleep. Oh, yeah. And so it creates like Have time at three in the morning where you're not sure. Like if somebody should be paying attention or not. So like, I'm more about like, don't get high, so you don't get low. And so
Holly 1:40:09
I say, I think, like to you and to other parents, it's really beautiful. What you do for your kids? What else you're like, oh, no, that level of support? Yeah, is and I think as an adult who didn't always get that, as a kid, I see how beautiful it is. And I don't know if the kids will ever be able to see it. Because they'll always have had that and they will. They won't know any different. Yeah. But as an adult who didn't get that as a kid, that is beautiful. That level of
Scott Benner 1:40:40
support. That's very nice to you to say. And I forgot your perspective, which was from a woman who smoked in front of your sister was good. But not it's very nice. I listen, maybe one day, I don't know. I'm gonna make so many podcasts. I used to think my kids will listen to this after I'm dead. And now I'm like, I bet you my kids look at that and go I can't take him for that long.
Holly 1:41:00
So it's kind of amazing. No, I mean, it's gorgeous.
Scott Benner 1:41:04
Yeah, it's my it's like a little time capsule. I kept for them. Yeah. Anyway, all right. I'm gonna go yell. It's I mean, I'm gonna go listen to some people tell me how they tried to kill my mom again. And I'm gonna refrain from mentioning that part of it out loud. Good luck. Thank you very much. Hold on one second, I will tell you.
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I also want to thank ag one and remind you to drink ag one.com/juicebox. Get your free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs when you use my link for your first order. I also want to thank Holly for coming on the show and giving me such a great conversation. Don't forget the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group. And those diabetes protests that began in Episode 1000. A diabetes diagnosis comes with a lot of new terminology. And that's why I've created the defining diabetes series. These are short episodes, where Jenny Smith and I go over all of the terms that you're going to hear living with diabetes, and some of them that you might not hear every day, from the very simple Bolus up to feed on the floor. Don't know the difference between hypo and hyper. We'll explain it to you. These are short episodes, they are not boring. They're fun, and they're informative. It's not just us reading to you out of the dictionary, we take the time to chat about all of these different words. Maybe you don't know what a coup small respiration is, you will when you're done. Ever heard of a glycemic index and load haven't doesn't matter. You will know after you listen to the defining diabetes series. Now, how do you find it, you go to juicebox podcast.com up top to the menu and click on defining diabetes. You'll be able to listen right there in your browser. Or you'll see the full list of the episodes and be able to go into an audio app like Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to them at your pace. Download them into your phone and listen when you can. The defining diabetes series is made up of 51 short episodes. That will fast forward your knowledge of diabetes terminology
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#1055 Sugar Free Friends
Alex has type 1 diabetes.
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1055 of the Juicebox Podcast.
Let's see what we've got for you today. Alex is married with children. She's had type one diabetes for 34 years diagnosed at three years old. Wow, that's crazy. Alex and her wife have fostered children and also have a child themselves. Ooh, artificial insemination. There's all this good story. What do we got here? You know what, I'm not giving the rest of this away. No, I'm not telling you the rest of this. You have to listen if you want to know. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. Check out the Juicebox Podcast, private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes 43,000 members strong. Over 120 new posts every day. There's a conversation happening right now that needs you. wants you or would benefit from your experience or presence. What am I saying? Go to Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Join the group. Find your community. I'm not going to put any ads on this episode today because I want to take this time to tell you about the series within the podcast. There is so much that you may not know about if you're a new listener, for instance, the after dark series. There are gosh I don't even know dozens of after dark episodes going all the way back to Episode 274. stuffs about weed sex depression, self harm, psychedelics, heroin addiction, all this stuff with people living with type one diabetes, go to juicebox podcast.com. Go to the top click on after dark to see a complete list. There's also asked Scott and Jenny episodes. Those are questions sent in by listeners that Jenny Smith and I have answered an entire series of algorithm pumping episodes. Find out about Omni pod five tandem T Sanaya. Control IQ all the loop Iaps it's all in there. They mean so much. We're going to hear from a tandem pump trainer we have that you want to hear from Kenny Fox gives a three episode tour de force about using loop. I've got a three episode series with Omni pod about starting your Omnipod five. There's the bold beginning series for people who are newly diagnosed. It's sort of like the Pro Tip series, but not as intense. It's great for people who are newly diagnosed or a little timid bold beginnings. Go check that out. How about defining diabetes definitions for every diabetes term you can think of? It's kind of hard to do something when you don't know what it is. So with defining diabetes, get short, fun episodes that define those words for you and help you to put them into context, defining thyroid, the diabetes Pro Tip Series, Episode 1002 1026, completely newly remastered? Absolutely. I don't say this very often. You listen to the Pro Tip series. And understand that a little bit. You're looking at a one C and the sixes you understand a lot. Low sixes you really understand it. I bet you getting the high fives. I'm talking about no diet restrictions, diabetes pro tip.com, or episode 1002 1026. In your podcast app, there's the variable series, mental wellness type two pro tips, how we eat, and so much more. Use the website juicebox podcast.com. Look around, see what's there. And if you need something specific or you can't find something, go to the private Facebook group and ask there are group experts in there that would be happy to answer your questions or tag me. I'd be happy to answer as well.
Alex 4:08
My name is Alex. I am a wife, a mom and have been type one diabetic for 3434 years now.
Scott Benner 4:20
Wait, and you just told me you're 37 before we started recording? Yep. Well, you were three you're diagnosed
Alex 4:27
just after my third birthday, like 10 days after I turned three.
Scott Benner 4:33
I'm interested, okay. 34 years ago, I just real quickly. Sure, man, I absolutely. It's 2023. So basically, I just have to I just have to subtract 11 from 100 which is 89. So you were diagnosed in 1989?
Alex 4:56
Yes, march 21 of 89 to be He is specific.
Scott Benner 5:01
Let the people who are listening just soak it up for a second. Just Let's be quiet. There's the backwards s way my brain works around that, by the way,
Alex 5:10
what how to the end result? I mean, math is definitely not my strong suit either. So you got there faster than I would have been able to?
Scott Benner 5:19
Seriously with my broken idea of mathematics that's like, well, it's 2023. So I'll take 23 off and 10 off is 90. And then one more is 80. It got there. I'm incredibly embarrassed by that. Okay. Well, you must not have known much it was happening then. Right. So I guess my first thought is, what's your first kind of recollection memory of having diabetes,
Alex 5:44
during the whole, diagnose, process, and kind of give that whole story because it really goes into if a parent thinks there's something wrong with your kiddo, like, you need to be your kid's advocate. Because when I was diagnosed at night, like you said, like, diabetes wasn't as prevalent in kids, so they weren't testing me for it. So the earliest memory I have is actually going in to an MRI machine, because they were doing like bone scans, because I couldn't walk more than like 20 feet without wanting my parents to carry me knowing now because obviously, like my body wasn't working, I couldn't walk anymore. So they were testing me for like, leukemias, blood cancers, like bone diseases. I just remember being I think I was probably still two, maybe just three at the time thinking, what is this very scary, loud machine?
Scott Benner 6:48
Wow. I can't imagine that. You remember that? That's fascinating to me.
Alex 6:54
I think it was just so like, it was a very white Stark room. And then, like an MRI. So like, this huge machine that you go inside. So as a kid, it must have been just on the brink of traumatizing enough that it just stuck in my brain. Because yeah, you know, childhood amnesia. There's no real reason I should remember that. But I do. And then snippets of the hospital, but not very much. Like I really don't remember too much about diabetes until entering like, kindergarten.
Scott Benner 7:31
Okay. And then all that plow banging from the MRI machine to
Alex 7:36
probably Yeah, like it was probably just a pretty freaky experience.
Scott Benner 7:39
That's incredible. Well, hey, you didn't have bone cancer. That's good.
Alex 7:43
That is a positive. Absolutely. All that they've tested me for I will honestly take diabetes.
Scott Benner 7:52
I guess that's a, that's a valuable way to think of it. Hey, quick side note. You don't have to tell me where you live. But you've said kiddo. Are you near the Wisconsin? Chicago, Minnesota area?
Alex 8:02
Milwaukee area?
Scott Benner 8:03
Yeah. i Okay. Are you impressed? Alex?
Alex 8:07
I am very impressed. That's, that was really good.
Scott Benner 8:11
I've never heard somebody use the word kiddo with frequency. Other than my sister in law who's from Wisconsin.
Alex 8:19
That's amazing. Okay, I do remember hearing you say your brother lives in Wisconsin, or at one point did I'm not sure if they're still here? Yeah.
Scott Benner 8:28
They're close to you. Okay, cool. I mean, I'm more impressed with the kiddo thing than I am with the math thing. And so I just need a second to soak up how good I feel right now.
Alex 8:39
I'll be honest, that's pretty impressive. You can you narrow that scope down pretty close.
Scott Benner 8:45
Alex, I am so uniquely qualified to make a podcast because I pay attention to things that I don't think anybody else cares about.
Alex 8:54
What your podcasts fantastic. Oh, I love the whole thing. And you are always pretty spot on with your very good educated assumptions and guesses like people, I think are always pretty impressed with that.
Scott Benner 9:09
Oh, I can tell you like me because you didn't call it generalizations and assumptions. Listen, I you know, you see things that I've times you know, absolutely is a rule. And I've never heard anyone say kiddo before except for her.
Alex 9:27
All right. Well, I you know, I will probably say it a couple more times. So I'm glad and at least doesn't put a face to a name but you can at least now know a little bit about me without knowing much about me. Alex
Scott Benner 9:39
is like you can't find my house but you have a little more context. That's excellent. So your early remembrances of diabetes? Do they come in forms of conversations with your parents? Like I'm trying to figure out how often frequently and in depth your parents discussed your childhood with you?
Alex 9:58
Yeah, they've always been really Oh, have been anytime I've asked questions. So I know this is always a conversation about is it, quote unquote better to be diagnosed earlier or later? For me, I don't know, any other world. So it was always just part of what we did. So I think they always did a very good job of involving me in a conversation that was age appropriate or my interest LED. So as I got into grade school, they kind of more explained the whys in the woods. And we were very fortunate that my mom connected with like three or four other moms. So I knew a small population of other type ones, which I think made it a little bit easier to know that I wasn't alone. But that oh, I'm not the only one going through this. So I can, like, I'm trying to think if there's a specific, like turning point that I realized, like, oh, like, this is what that means. But I don't really I think they just always were good about leading me into knowing what was going on. What should I be listening to my body for? I mean, it's definitely weird being you know, a four year old going off to kindergarten, and mom coming in halfway through the day to do a blood sugar check. But
Scott Benner 11:42
I never really see your mom built like a little playgroup at Disney Kids for you to
Alex 11:48
have Yeah, pretty much grew up. So I don't know if they'll hear the podcast, but shout out to my sugar free friends. That's what our parents referred to us as
Scott Benner 12:01
sugar free friends. Yeah. Would have been helpful if you would have just said sugar free kiddos. So I could have named the episode but All right, we'll keep going. So I'm struck by the date of your diagnosis, because 89 is still basically like it's near the transfer between like, when people were like some people were doing most people doing regular and mph, and then faster after insolence were coming. And meter technology was still janky. And you know, like, so you started on? management wise, in my opinion, like an unfavorable footing. So how quickly did you get to faster acting insulin?
Alex 12:42
That's probably later in grade school, actually. So when we left the hospital, I was on regular and Len Tay. And yeah, thinking about it, I don't think I think they gave me like Novolog or human log, probably? Probably like eight or nine years later.
Scott Benner 13:04
Oh, no kidding. So almost the late 90s later night, yes. No, human log was definitely available then.
Alex 13:13
Yeah. Or which one came first. And with insurances I've flipped flopped on those more times than I can count. But I do remember that being a pretty in my mind, cool, pivoting moment, because it definitely opened up to not eating very scheduled times and very scheduled carb amounts. And he's through grade school. Like, I think I had the same lunch minus a couple of variations. Probably until the, you know, late 90s. So I can remember that being a really sounds kind of ridiculous, but a really exciting, changing point.
Scott Benner 13:54
Wow. Yeah, no, I hear that from people. You're in your, you know, the age isn't important. It's people who who went from mph, regular Ultra lentil stuff like that one day, and to faster acting. So you were eating to a schedule prior to this, right? Yep. Yeah. For nine or 10 years? Yep. Till you were like 12 years old?
Alex 14:19
Yeah, probably probably about that. Like, yeah, middle school age.
Scott Benner 14:23
Can I ask a question? Of course, the whole thing is me asking a question. So when I say that it's ridiculous.
Alex 14:29
You can ask anything at all. If there is something that I won't answer, I will very nicely tell you that. How about that?
Scott Benner 14:35
That's fine. Oh, that I appreciate it. And I expect from everybody, by the way, but here I'll give you a little secret. If I say Can I ask you a question? That's me buying myself time while I'm still formulating my question. Perfect. Good to know. Here's another one for you. Episode went up today. There's an ad for in the beginning for a contour meter. Right. And I wanted to say that the meter was very accurate. And I wanted to I was going to say it was super accurate. And when I said the word super, I could not remember the word accurate. So I could have gone back and re edited it and just said it's super accurate. But instead I went it's super duper Uber, super, super accurate.
Speaker 1 15:22
I couldn't find accurate my head. And then I listened back to it. I was like, oh, that's silly. I'll leave that in. But anyway, the part I was fumbling over is, I want to ask if you're a clean eater, lean person, but then I got certain that if you weren't, it would feel insulting. But I'm trying to get to did eating to a schedule lead to a lifetime of careful eating. That's my question.
Alex 15:52
Yes, and no. So yes, it did. For all of my life, pretty much through elleven, say high school, and I was a very athletic kid, I played soccer, basketball, softball, I was constantly in a sport all the time, my parents, God bless them. And then I reached college, and played soccer and basketball for my college had a wonderful time. But I'll admit, like, I did kind of go off the rails a little bit, because it had been not ingrained. But a very learned, you know, eating is very important. And all the things doctors and parents tell type one, it goes with, you know, you got to be careful, and you got to carb counting all the stuff that we know. But I kind of took it as Oh, I'm free. Now I don't have to do all of this. Always taking care of my diabetes. I did always respect that importance. But definitely, definitely took it as a little bit more. Yeah, I can eat more fast food. And if everyone else is going out for pizza, cool, I can join them. And I'd say it wasn't. Say there's probably like a good eight years of doing a lot of that before pulling things back on track going, you know, I just need to go back to being a little more diligent. Yeah. But yeah, I think there was a little bit of a
Scott Benner 17:30
well, you know, what I noticed too, watching my son in college is that when you're playing a sport in college, you can almost do anything it feels like because you're just burning so many calories constantly. So you know, you can eat a little, I don't know, crazy ecology, and it doesn't hit you the way does people who are not, you know, running active. You said you played two sports played a winter sport and a spring sport.
Alex 17:58
Fall in winter. Yes, I played soccer in the fall. And then there was always a little bit of overlap leading into the basketball season.
Scott Benner 18:07
It's a lot of running through, unless you're the goalie.
Alex 18:12
No, I'm not the goalie or goalie was phenomenal. But I I played typically left midfielder. So that was a lot of running.
Scott Benner 18:21
Is this in a position where you shoot on the goal frequently or no? Yes. Okay. Can I ask a question? I'm being super serious. Now. The goal is so big, and the ball is so small, and a person is so small. How do they miss the open space so frequently? It's a good
Alex 18:39
question. And if I had the answer, I would definitely have been able to score a lot more. But if you're a college level goalie, you are a superhero in my mind. So our team so I played for Alberto college. And the goalie we had while I played was a ninja like she covered so much ground. And if anybody is listening to this elbow college did not have a strong soccer program for the first couple of years that I was there and then we have built up from there. But there was one game. This is not an exaggeration, but we were playing on I think the stats were they had like 80 shots on goal and our goalie let eight in. So just picture this poor college kid diving and jumping like she was exhausted. She took a beating that day we played that was you know, one of the better teams in our league. But how soccer goalies are? I think one of the most underrated people in sports that to them. That's not an answer to your question, but that's not
Scott Benner 19:59
have an answer to my question. It feels like here's what soccer feels like. To me. It feels like somebody gave you a tennis ball stands you 15 feet from a garage door and says here hit the garage door and you throw it backwards. That's how it feels. So much space. And anyway, hey, by the way, do you feel prepared to live a life of personal and professional distinction and meaningful engagement with the world? Because that's what Alvarado college is known for it says online.
Alex 20:26
You know what, it's a it's a great school. i Yes, I would. I would say that.
Scott Benner 20:31
Excellent. Well, then good for them. That's amazing. All right. I'll get past that. And I'm not soccer bashing. Listen, I like Ted lasso like everybody else. Okay. But it's just such a big space.
Alex 20:46
It's a bass soccer real? Yes. When you break it down that simply it does seem like it should be a much scoring game,
Scott Benner 20:54
I want to say I would not be able to do it. It's just not me going. I I'm assuming it's very difficult. It's just it doesn't make sense visually, while I'm watching it. That's all I'm saying.
Alex 21:04
No, I get that I can respect
Scott Benner 21:05
that. Like, even with the running around, I think to myself, there's so much space on the field. Why don't you run where there nobody is then put the ball there. Guys never understand what's happening. It looks like chaos. To me, I recognize that it's not, my brain doesn't make sense of it. That's it.
Alex 21:21
That's all and I'll be honest, that was my team's approach. For the longest time. I am not nearly as athletic today as I was back then. But I was fast. I'm not going to run a marathon. But I will get from point A to point B faster than anybody else. So the coach would yell, run for the border, which was codeword for launch that ball and do an open space. And Alex will go get it. And that is all I did. So it is a little bit of organized chaos. You're not wrong in your approach.
Scott Benner 21:55
Thank you. I also don't understand watching golf. But that's for another day,
Alex 21:59
either. Other podcast.
Scott Benner 22:03
But while you're in college and running around crazy, you also let go of the building your diabetes building blocks. Is that correct? Like you just sort of you're not eating on a schedule anymore. That's as specific you don't have to, which is terrific. But then suddenly does it. Like I guess my question is, do you think that hurt you in the long run? Or do you think that it was just a part of growing in the process?
Alex 22:30
I think it was a part of growing. I think every kid at some point, diabetes related or not? It is biologically ingrained in us to push back and everything that our parents teach us. It's an important part of growing up. And I think, for me, that was my kind of pushing back that was is maybe silly as it sounds like my rebellion. Sure. Like, oh, I don't have to listen. No. So I think I think it didn't help me in some cases. But I think all the years before that. I was at least able to kind of get back now. I am not saying I eat perfect or regimented right now, but I can weigh like, I don't want to go back to what I did in college. So it's easier to stay on a better track.
Scott Benner 23:23
Yeah, I mean, people rebel, like that's, I think, pretty obvious in common. And I mean, my go to example is always like when we graduated from high school, all the Catholic school girls we knew either cut their hair, if their hair was long or grew their hair forever short. It was it was just it was just like, they were like, I'm going to now I'm going to make a decision is what it felt like to me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I gotcha. Okay. All right. So I tell people all the time. I love speaking with people in their late 20s, who had diabetes when they were younger, because you get to hear them grow up with it and, and hear the struggles they have as they're breaking free of like their help with their parents. But my first question for you is, first of all, you have an extra 10 years on this. So I think this is going to be really valuable. But how involved were your parents before you left for college?
Alex 24:10
They were very involved. Right up until high school, and then it was a little bit more on the peripherals. So by the time I went off to college, it really was completely in my hands. So my mom was primary diabetes caregiver. It was the 80s 90s mom had a little bit more hands on at home dad went to work in, you know, brought home brought home more of the paycheck. So my mom felt more of the diabetes burden. And then in high school, I took a little bit more of the control. Again, I was out a little bit more doing sports, things like that. It just wasn't as feasible for her to be so hands Then the good thing is I went to the high school that she works at. So I would at lunchtime go in and do a blood sugar in her office and things like that, at least made it a little comfortable feeling. But because technology wasn't what it is now, there was no importance because of course, it was always important, but the data wasn't as readily accessible. So I think it made it easier for her and for AI to give me a little bit more control.
Scott Benner 25:33
When you left for college. Was there a feeling of like, I can call my mom if I need to? Or was that not even a concern? Did you? Were you worried about leaving for college? I guess that's my question.
Alex 25:45
No, I really wasn't. Part of that was because I went to school close to home. And it was only 15 minutes from my house. So I lived at home freshman and sophomore year. So even if I wasn't constantly checking in, I knew that if I needed anything, she would either be home at night when I got home from classes and practice, or she would be a phone call away. I needed her and leaned on her a lot more when it came to finding a good doctor or how to navigate any of the insurance stuff. So the day to day care I felt pretty confident in but she was always there to help if I had questions or something really kind of stumped me
Scott Benner 26:35
right. Now at that time. There's no CGM, so the can the can. What am I asking? You have a CGM now? Yes. Okay. So, do you look back at that time and think, Wow, I can't believe how lucky I got. When you describe what you're concerned about leaving for college. Your your concerns? Were not the same as what I thought about when Arden left. But I can see Arden's blood sugar in real time. So like, was your I mean, like the junior mom sit around and be like, you know, if you get low, like, was there a lot of worry about lows?
Alex 27:14
I'm sure for her there was. But for you, she did a really good job of not letting me see probably how nervous she she truly was. I think now that I'm a parent, I'm sure she was probably up at night, you know, really concerned. And I always share with her what my eight onesies are, I always have I know, she wants to know more. But at the time, I didn't see how it would be important for her to know, like, you know, all of that wasn't readily available. So I feel, you know, at that time, I probably could have and I'm sure she would have appreciated that. But she was really good at just going Yep, you know, like, go out do this. I'm here, you know, for anything you might need. But yeah, now being a parent or kind of looking back on it. She probably wanted to know more about what my blood sugar was doing.
Scott Benner 28:15
What was what was your focus then? Long term, short term for your outcomes and goals? Like what were you trying to keep? Were you trying to keep your blood sugar anywhere, or were you just trying not to be dizzy? Like I'm trying to understand, like, what the what the goal was,
Alex 28:32
the goal was to stay in range. I think that what range meant at that point was probably closer to like 90 to 200. I think my range at that point that I was aiming for was definitely broader. But being very in tune yet with my body, I knew that showing up to a game or practice anything under 90 obviously was dangerous and wasn't going to be helpful for me or my team. But anything over 200 I was going to feel like garbage and not be able to perform as well either. So staying in something of a range for me definitely was important. I even if I wasn't eating very healthy. I didn't sit in the two three hundreds and I wasn't okay with that. So I definitely brought myself within range. Now, is it the range that I try to keep myself in now? No. But again, you know, college, you're invincible and you think you're on top of the world.
Scott Benner 29:36
It's just very interesting to me that if back then you didn't know what was happening in between your finger sticks. So if Did you find yourself low frequently or no?
Alex 29:49
No, not really. Not Not really too bad. I if I had to put a reasonable guess on it. I would say I was probably Living quite often in like the 151 60 range based on, like what I remember. And I mean, that was a long time ago, there's no way I can tell you what my blood was on any given day. But I think I did a pretty good job, it was always important for me to stay somewhat what I would have defined in range at that point. And that's tricky, right? Because there's still doctors today that say anything below 180 is good. But certainly tighter now. But at the time, I think I was for what I understood diabetes to be was living in a pretty healthy space.
Scott Benner 30:36
That's it. I mean, it's all fat. Like I when Arden left, my my thought is always a low blood sugar that she can't help herself for is my concern. That was that was my concern when she left, right. And that's even interesting to say, because I mean, Orton doesn't get low that frequently. So you know, it's not like she's low every day or something. And I'm like, Oh, it's just gonna keep happening. And just the randomness of it is what concerns me, ended up being the bigger concern is the quality of the food at the college, which is suspect, and
Alex 31:11
perhaps a lot of carbs lot of refined.
Scott Benner 31:16
Processed, fried, refined, carb heavy, like repetition like even that she's like, I'm so sick of all this. It's bad food, and I'm sick of it. And I'm like, Yeah, I gotcha.
Alex 31:29
Yeah, she's got to be, you guys. Gotta be getting ready to bring her back home pretty soon. Hey,
Scott Benner 31:35
so yeah. So she does quarters, though. So she's completing her third quarter or her first year. I know, that sounds crazy. You don't have to do the fourth quarter to complete the air. But it's both the years broken up into quarters. But these last two, there was no real break in between. So the first time she went away, she was gone for a quarter. And she came home for a while. And then she went back. And that was the beginning of January. And now she's not going to be home until the beginning of June. So she's gonna be gone like a solid five months. And it's the longest she's ever been away from home. Okay, so we're starting to hear from her. Like, I can't wait for summer. I want to come home. Like that kind of stuff. You know, which I completely understand. The other day I was, she was FaceTiming. So she was making a skirt. And I was editing the podcast. So we just fake and we talked for a while. And I said, I was joking with her. She's like, I got to do this. And then I have to go over to the fashion, you know, building to do this. And I'm like, right. She's like, it's gonna be late tonight. And I was like, Well, I have to do this. And this this. She was here but in our house. She was look at this little tiny room I'm sitting in. Yeah. And I was like, I know. She's like, I'm trying to so sitting on a stool in front of a coffee table.
Alex 32:59
That's yeah, I guess I got about how limiting college dorm rooms.
Scott Benner 33:06
I'm like, in this tiny little space. It was four of us in here. And she's like, I like these girls. She's like, What if I didn't like them? And I'm like, Nah, now. So, but it just my concern. I never thought about, like the other stuff. Like, I just think that as the time goes by, and the management changes, people's understanding gets deeper. And so their concerns change too. And and there's part of me that that feels like I could see the time when you grew up as just limited information. So you wouldn't know any better almost just like ignorance that you're just you know, it's not your fault in any way. But then it's interesting to hear you talk about it because if I knew what I know now and then you took me back to 1997 and set and I had to send Alex off to school I'd be like Well she's obviously going to die. That's the last I say goodbye to Alex everybody and and not the case obviously.
Alex 34:04
No, I get that I can see where knowing everything we know now and everything we have, if that would all be taken away. It would it would be living in the dark ages. I absolutely respect and I mean I think
Scott Benner 34:18
you're okay right now you don't have any kind of long term health issues.
Alex 34:23
No, I'm doing doing really well. 15 months ago gave birth to a very healthy little boy and everything went very smooth that way. There was one period of time later in college where my eye doctor wanted to keep an eye on a couple blood vessels that she said we're looking a little a little more spotty, but since tightening everything up and making a couple other changes, she says everything is not only stopped where It was but has actually gotten better. That was really the I'll say the closest thing to what I'll say is a true complication or a you know, the the ones you hear about, but otherwise no, I'm, I consider myself in pretty good
Scott Benner 35:12
health. That's excellent. How many kids do you have?
Alex 35:15
So we've got one daughter, who is 20. And she joined our family a little bit later in life. And we've got a 15 month old son, and then we fostered for a while. So one of our foster daughters we see on the weekend. She's not currently in our home, but we're like a mentor, or so we are quite often
Scott Benner 35:40
nice. Yeah. So I'm hearing you. You abducted a child. And you made a baby. I gotcha. Grab it at the ball. Just come with us kind of a situation. Almost. Yeah, least you're taking good care. It's funny when you said 20. Like, you start doing the math. And I'm like, Alex didn't say she had a baby in high school. That's not this. Yeah. And then very easily understand. Well, that's lovely. How old were you when you started fostering children.
Alex 36:09
So she, let's see, okay. My wife and I, we're actually just kind of having this conversation. So we've started fostering five and a half, six years ago, and then met our daughter five years ago. And then she seemed to officially like full time move in with us about three years ago. Oh, that's lovely. Weird. That might be off on that. But she, she has been with us for for quite a few years. Now.
Scott Benner 36:40
That was certainly no 2023 minus 37. But it wasn't terrible. No. She was about 15. When you met her,
Alex 36:49
I lost that whole 2020 just feels like it's gone. So take with a grain of salt. If she's listening to this, and goes, geez, man, I've been here for five years. I'll feel terrible, but
Scott Benner 37:00
it's fine. It's a lot of pressure. There's like due dates all but she was around 15 When you met her? Yes. Okay. That's beautiful. So now I have another question. Yep. How do you decide who carries the baby? Rock Paper, Scissors, please? No, I wish it was paper, scissors. Okay, there was other ways Go ahead.
Alex 37:21
For a lot of families, it probably does come down to it being that simple. My wife has some health stuff that just would have made that process a little bit more tricky, a little bit more medically intensive. So having the conversation on who would have the best chance of staying healthier and having a healthy baby. And it was me.
Scott Benner 37:50
Yeah, that's what I didn't want to say. I'm like, how did you end up being the good choice? This is what I was wondering. I was like, well go with a type one. This will be the way to go. So
Alex 37:59
this is the winner here.
Scott Benner 38:01
I bet you that's the first time you ever won like a race like that. You were like why
Alex 38:06
wouldn't diabetes put me at the advantage point. Right,
Scott Benner 38:09
exactly. That's wonderful. Okay, so very cool. So the youngest is just 15 months old. That's really, that's a great time. Will you consider TrialNet?
Alex 38:20
Yes, I we will definitely be doing that. And that has been a funny process, because we've got some friends. He's type one. He has two kids. And he's had the, the information. He's had the box, they call him every six months going, Hey, when are you going to send this in? And he's terrified of it. He you see, he's afraid of what he will or won't find out. And I respect that. And up until even delivery. My wife and I were both like, if it happens, it happens. We know what to look for. And then our son was about three months old. And something came minorly unhinged. And I'm like, we like how old can he be before we do this? And then it became a Well, geez, now I gotta wait till he's two and a half, like, what are we gonna do? But just out of curiosity, I listened to one mom on your podcast, who? Honestly, it's what made sense. In my mind. She said it's not knowing the like, when is it going to happen, but she was able to use it as a teaching point, and help her son understand it before the diagnosis landed. And I thought that's a really cool approach. You know, if that made sense to me, and then I saw a conversation on your podcast about you know, when were people diagnosed, and so many of the people said almost exactly three months after COVID and it was right at the time. Our little one had COVID So, I did tell my wife, I'm like, we're gonna do a blood sugar check. month three or four after like, I just need to put my mind at ease. Yeah, he was perfect. He was 78. Like, there's nothing could have been better. I mean, we'll definitely do try
Scott Benner 40:17
on that. Okay. Yeah. Hey, so when you were looking for a donor, were you just like, look, just there can't be any autoimmune issues in your family. That's what I would have been like, I don't care what they look like, I don't care. I don't know how much money they make. Just please. Not even I don't even want like a sore stomach after a meal. My thing
Alex 40:37
is, yeah, so we went through a bank in Illinois. And for me, it was very important that we picked features that actually complimented my wife. So it worked out perfectly, because he does look like the two of us. So whoever he's with, like, people, if people don't know us, they would assume like, Oh, that's my Oh, that's
Scott Benner 41:01
cool. Oh, I didn't think of that. That's such a wonderful idea. Yeah. Cool. No, excellent, good. Well, I'm glad that cost money by the way.
Alex 41:13
It does. We were very fortunate that we did not need to do a lot of the medical components that a lot of a lot of straight or lesbian families have to go through. We were pretty lucky that we could simply order and you need doctor's approvals, and you have to fax in this like ream of paper to the bank that basically says your doctor is giving permission more or less that you're healthy enough to try. But we were able to attempt at home and things went
Scott Benner 41:50
really well. Alex I was gonna joke about that. But it's a do it yourself kit.
Alex 41:55
It can be oh my
Scott Benner 41:57
god, be honest. The funniest thing that's ever happened to you?
Alex 42:01
It was. I mean, yeah, like that is
Scott Benner 42:04
nerve racking, I imagine but it's hilarious, too, right?
Alex 42:07
Yep, absolutely. I are very, I don't wanna say silly people, but like, we're very relaxed. And it was just it was a weird kind of like, knowing like, what like what are we like? This is an at home science experiment. Like it's just very bizarre but very cool.
Scott Benner 42:25
I'm about to go write a movie where this is the main scene. Nobody steal my idea. Okay.
Alex 42:31
This is yours patent pending.
Scott Benner 42:33
Oh my god. That's I just My mind is picturing so many different odd things that just I would have been laughing the whole time if I was one of you. Oh my god, I got you. I got you in the bicycle position yet abs like oh my god, I got her going. I don't want to touch it. Oh my god, does it. I never mind. My last question is not appropriate.
Alex 43:04
But we can talk out there that's totally fine. Just want
Scott Benner 43:07
to know how close to an actual turkey baster does it look like is what I'm asking is
Alex 43:11
it looks more like a like an at home chemistry set as weird as that sounds. So yes, like everyone says turkey baster but like think much more like high school chemistry classroom.
Scott Benner 43:23
Okay. Now I'm going to ask you a question that I'm serious about this gonna sound like I'm joking. I'm not being salacious. I really want to I really want to understand good job, Scott way to go down this hole. Or not, I didn't mean that stop. Sorry.
Alex 43:39
Unintended there
Speaker 1 43:40
wasn't even intended. I was gonna say path. And then I was gonna say rabbit hole. And I just said the worst thing I could have said, is it best? Is the alright, that's my question. Is it best to be aroused? While you're doing it like or is there like physiological function around that? Or is it just as easy as like, put it in? And we're done? We
Alex 44:02
have. So we did a little bit of homework. Like, it's not super, it's not difficult to find information online. But it's also you got to weed through just like anything like what's reputable and what's not. So they did say that there was higher likelihood. If, if that, you know,
Scott Benner 44:21
things up a little bit, got things go? Yeah, that made sense to me. But I wasn't sure. And then there was probably a very polite adult way. I could have asked that question, but I actually scaled it down pretty far from the juvenile thought I had. So I think I did pretty well. No. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense to me. And so because not, not for nothing too, but if you're if you're paying by the delivery, you want to get it in, get it go in the right way as quickly as possible to
Alex 44:51
pretty much I mean, it wasn't I have friends who are LGBT and straight who have spent lots of money and attempts to get get pregnant. And I mean, it can add up very quickly. I will say our first attempt, or getting pregnant was not our first attempt. So there was some money spent. But, you know, just like, heterosexual people have to try, you know, multiple times sometimes to it, you know, it takes what it takes.
Scott Benner 45:22
Yeah. So do you, if you okay? If so if you try once that doesn't work? Do you go back to the bank and say, Hey, we want more from the same guy.
Alex 45:30
You can Yep. So you. I mean, it's kind of I mean, it doesn't I guess sound ridiculous. But like, yeah, you kind of fill out an order form and either call or email or fax I think are different ways you can kind of do things, you can have it shipped. So there's like a window of like a travel range that they'll deliver.
Scott Benner 45:54
Think about that the next time, you wouldn't be mean to your UPS guy. Right? Cut him or him or her break. You know, they mean their login sperm around them.
Alex 46:05
The package car driver, they're now thinking, jeez, how much have I delivered?
Scott Benner 46:11
Guy was there every day for a week. Every time something comes to my house, I say to the guy, I'm gonna go back inside and say to my wife that you come here, you said you come here a lot. And he goes, I don't feel that way. And I go, I'm still gonna use you as an excuse. Yeah, I'm like the guy said, he this the house. He goes through the most. It's upsetting to him. He really wants a break. I'm just trying to get another buy things online. But it's not working yet. Okay. So you. So you do that. Now, and it is in the back? I mean, there's no way around it right. It's in the back of your head. You were diagnosed at three. Yeah, so the baby comes near like, by the way you didn't chase called the baby Scott. No, no, that's fine. And do you like do you listen to this podcast? I do. Yeah. Cool. That's nice. How did you find it?
Alex 47:02
I think it was in something that like highlighted the top podcasts in different genres. And it was either diabetes specific or like health care something. But am I like, that's really cool. I'm driving, you know, more for work, and then dropping our son off at daycare. So I started listening and really enjoyed it. So I am happy to be able to be talking with you for for a change.
Scott Benner 47:36
I'm good. That's excellent. Your note says that you want to talk about advocating for yourself. And I have not let you get to that yet. So
Alex 47:46
no, that's okay. Right. What I love about the podcast is he, you ask questions, and we just go from there. So even if we would never have touched on that, it wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world.
Scott Benner 47:57
We've learned a lot already today. Like I mean, we've learned from a person who was diagnosed very young, and in a different management time heard about going to college, we've heard about, like, at home insemination, which my goodness, I was gonna joke about that, but I did not realize it was an actual real thing. So I learned something there. And yeah, and I just have a Yeah. Did you wear rubber gloves? I'm just kidding. Did you? Uh, wait, did you?
Alex 48:24
No, no, we did. I was thinking about like, the thought that came in my head is why we weren't rubber gloves. But yeah, like that would be a question, but we did not know.
Scott Benner 48:32
So Alex, here's the end of the insemination questions for me and then I move forward. Are you are your wife Goldstar?
Alex 48:41
We are not
Scott Benner 48:43
okay. That's why you're not scared. I say okay, I got it all. Now. I figured the whole thing out. That's fine. How many people right now are like I don't know what that means? Probably a lot. Yeah. Not me. I know a lot of useless stuff. Do I? Do I tell them
Alex 49:01
asking that question. You know, I'm gonna let people wander. Either wander or check it out? Primarily because like if someone in my family listens to this, I don't want them being like asking like so. Who was it?
Scott Benner 49:15
Oh, so you're, you're you're Hoh. So it happened but it's not like a It's not it's not like you are with guys for a long time. It's just the thing that happened at one time.
Alex 49:26
Right? Yeah. Well, that's that's actually a very good way of summing that up. Okay,
Scott Benner 49:30
can I ask another question? Sure. Were you testing it? Oh, like were you like let me just make sure that it started happening. You went Oh, yeah, no, I'm sure that's enough. We can you can go home.
Alex 49:45
No, it was not taking away from the experience. It wasn't a casual like encounter or anything like that. It was more or less closing a chapter for me and this guy. So, it wasn't like, you know, I mean, like people totally fine if like people are out there, you know, having kind of meaningless relationships. For me. It wasn't bad. It was definitely like a closure piece that me and former boyfriend needed to kind of put in place
Scott Benner 50:17
to us. So prior to the boyfriend, did you think you might be gay? Or you never had the thought?
Alex 50:24
No, I definitely at that point, it was very much like a two year ish kind of window of questioning and we weren't together that whole time. Like, I don't want it. I don't want people out there going to use this poor guy.
Scott Benner 50:38
Oh, my gosh, Alex, did you help him out? Otherwise?
Alex 50:46
He's happily married. I think he's got a kid or two.
Scott Benner 50:48
No, I'm sure he's thrilled to be away from you. That's not what I'm sorry.
Alex 50:52
Yeah, we can talk more about that off air and people aren't gonna you know, that conversation. But ya know, neither one of us are gold stars. Okay, which I'm sure.
Scott Benner 51:02
got it figured out. Yeah, for sure. It's so Oh, that's interesting. I do have more questions. Like, did you like, did you just like, oh, you put in so much time, where you tried to give them a like a favor at the end? Or were you really like, I'm just wanting to know, if you were like, let me find out. I'll do this and see if I'm really it's not for me. You know,
Alex 51:22
I'm trying to like,
Scott Benner 51:23
I like to you don't remember?
Alex 51:25
Back? They're like, Well, I'm that's yeah, I mean, like, that wasn't? Yeah, it was it was a meaningful experience. And also, I think I had like known more than that, that I was a lesbian. So I think it was just more. I don't want to say like, yeah, like confirmation, but kind of, maybe kind of a little bit. I'm not exactly sure,
Scott Benner 51:51
Alex, I know. I know how to handle this. If there are any guys out there listening who are gay, but try to Lady to make sure it was real. Please get a hold of me because you'll be way more fun to talk about this with analysis. That's what I want to do. Okay, hopefully, I'll get a nice note from someone. You're being like an adult about this. I don't need that. I need ridiculous.
Alex 52:17
Hey, we can you know, even better yet next time you're visiting your brother. Let's go out from Mexican. I'll pick you up from the airport. We can talk about anything you want. Oh,
Scott Benner 52:25
my brother's being punished for moving to Wisconsin? I don't see him. That's all. He should have moved somewhere warm. If you want to see me. Do you understand? Fair enough. For all of you telling us about the lakes. It's not enough. I've seen the ocean. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I heard the legs. People tell me the legs are lovely. And then I really shouldn't see them. And I'm certain I'll visit my brother. Now that my mom's out there. I'll go.
Alex 52:52
Okay, okay, so so your mom's out with
Scott Benner 52:57
after her? Her cancer ordeal that so my mom was oddly getting ready to move to Wisconsin. And because my brother moved when he was young for college, and then ended up staying. And my mom's like, you know, I think I want to spend the last bit of my life with Brian. And I was like, Yeah, it sounds. I mean, definitely let them have you when it's really hard. That's the best time for us to say goodbye. But But no, it's sad. She moved but she's having a different experience with him and his family, which is all lovely. But I mean, I can get away with telling my brother to come back here or let's meet somewhere for a vacation. But I'm not like I can get away with asking my 80 year old mom to do that. So I guess I am going to end up with He tricked me into going to Wisconsin I guess. He got you honestly, I was supposed to speak in Wisconsin, right as COVID was happening. Obviously shut down pretty quickly. But yeah, I missed. I missed seeing Wisconsin by like two weeks because of COVID. Okay, would have been there anyway. What have we not gone over yet? Oh, the advocating piece? Like where have you found yourself having to do that?
Alex 54:05
Whether you are the type one or a mom or dad or caregiver? I think it's just so important to be able to stand up for yourself in anything. I mean, diabetes? Yes, of course. Because it could have very serious side effects. Or, you know, I mean, going low or staying too high. You know, we all know that there's so many dangers in that. Then I think once you're out of the terror of like that new diagnosis and you kind of get a rhythm and you're like, Okay, this isn't always going to be scary. I think it's very easy to then discount, like, how important it still is. So, I mean, I went through college in high school without any sort of, like 504 plans weren't really a thing. I to a private school, I was very lucky that my teachers were just accommodating. But college like no one in like any student housing or anything like that knew really that I was diabetic. And I know that you can now go and let people know like what accommodations you need. And I think just because I didn't utilize that doesn't mean it wasn't important. I think you need to advocate for what you need. And I think it will lead to so many more in our community having better mental health and better just conversations about it as a whole, I think a lot of us, you know, hide it without even meaning to, and I don't think it has to be that way.
Scott Benner 55:46
And I actually said something a second ago, that I'll push back on, but in a in a way that you'll understand in a second. You said like, you know how dangerous or concerning lows are like everybody knows that. But I just got back from a speaking engagement in person where I was fairly stunned by the amount of people who did not understand the implications of low blood sugar people who either had type one, or were the spouses of a type one, they just didn't know. There was really something I was stunned, obviously. And then in the middle of a talk that I was giving about something else. I took five minutes to educate everybody on that. So I was like, not the favorite person for five minutes. You know, I'm like, like, No, I'm like, blood sugar's go down, they get too low, you have a seizure. If they can, and you go low, then there's not enough sugar in your blood and your brain shuts off, and then you're gone. And then somebody said, but then you drink your juice. And I went, No, no, no, you're just gone. And a lot of like, shocked, looks in the room, but I just I, I saw it happening. And I thought, well, someone's gonna have to tell them. I didn't relish it being me. But I just thought it's, I mean, we're all here. Like, let's do it. Now. You know, we talked everybody through it. I told him like, like, it's not like, it's obviously definitely going to happen or anything like that. But it's a possibility. And I just think you should know about it. So then that move the conversation to glucagon. I was stunned by the amount of people who don't have glucagon. If they have it. They don't carry it with them. You know, I don't know. It just threw me off. So.
Alex 57:27
And I, I appreciate that pushback. Because yeah, I guess I take it for granted that that is something that I know. But to that point, there are probably lots of people who don't understand how it works, even living with it, which is scary to
Scott Benner 57:43
think then you find somebody who does know about it. They're like, Yeah, I've never used it. So then it's that like, well, then people are like, Oh, well, then what do I need it for? Like you need it for? It's like wearing a seatbelt? Honestly, it's you don't wear a seatbelt for all the times you don't crash your car. That's not how it works. And I don't know, I think I got through them. And the people that were in the event were very kind afterwards because a couple of people complained, you know, like, he's in there talking about dying. And I'm like, well, first of all, I wasn't talking about that this came up. And I you know, I told you that the reality of it. But the people that run the the event were like no, like, we appreciate that you did that. And that must have been difficult. And thank you. That's a cool, cool, level headed people. Excellent. So that was pretty cool. Did you like being pregnant? The experience of it?
Alex 58:32
I did. I really enjoyed it. I know not everybody has that experience. And I respect that. But I really enjoyed it. That doesn't mean it was smooth sailing the entire time. But I we are not having more children. But I would I would be open to hearing again.
Scott Benner 58:53
No, I mean, I just talked to you a minute ago. And there's just a picture of you pregnant with a look on your face that made me think Man, she loved that. Like it wasn't
Alex 59:01
the one or quite honestly. Yeah. So
Scott Benner 59:08
when you're about halfway through being pregnant, right about there. Yeah.
Alex 59:12
That would have been October and our son was born end of January. So that's actually at the diabetes camp that I volunteer at. Tell me about that. It's a really great experience. I know camp is not for everybody. So I'm not saying everybody should go. And if it's something your kid would benefit from, it's how I describe it to non diabetic people. Is it is the coolest, heartbreaking experience that I do every year like it's so cool because there are up to 150 kids for one week, who are all going through the same thing. They all understand what it means they're not having to re explain what their low blood sugar means like it Just they get to be a kid and the diabetes gets to go on the background. But it's heartbreaking. Because inevitably, about halfway through the week, I look around and I go, Jesus, there's 130 kids here, and they're all diabetic like that, that breaks my heart. So it's a really cool experience. Wisconsin Lyons camp, is who hosts it in Wisconsin. They have a beautiful campground, they have amazing staff. It's a really great week for the kids. And they, some of them come the first time never seen another type one kid, and they leave with like a core group of like best friends and I, I can't say enough good things about it. It's so
Scott Benner 1:00:42
great things just happened. One, you said, Wisconsin, very Wisconsin, which I enjoyed you were like your That was fantastic. And then the thing about the way you said, you know, they don't have to explain things to other people, right, because everybody already knows. I thought a little more about that, as you were talking. And that's a lot about language. Like you don't show up at a gathering and have to explain to people that you're breathing, you don't mean that it's an we're to look at them and think, Oh, I'm breathing. And they're breathing, but I'm doing it differently. And they don't understand that like no, that all just that all fades away, right there. Yeah, that must be the best part of it. And that the other thing that you talked about, about the kind of the heartbreaking nature of it is actually, Arden is done at her children's hospital now because she is an adult, and they told her to get out. But they actually said you need to find an adult and they didn't say get out. But that's what they meant. This Yeah, semantics. So we go to what had gone to a satellite office for a really major Children's Hospital. And I hate having to go to the appointments at the Children's Hospital. Because you just walk in, and so many different disease states, so many little kids, so many tired parents like, like smiling when their kids are looking at them. And when the kids aren't looking and they just look like they're gonna run their head through a wall, like that kind of thing. And I find it difficult to be there. So yeah, yeah, it's just somehow amazing institutions that are helping so many people, and I find it to be like, it's like the saddest place on earth. I just can't, but I have trouble being there. So the satellite offices for me, it's just the way better. Anyway. Well, that's very nice. How long have you been donating your time to the camp?
Alex 1:02:39
I have been volunteering with them this 10 or 11 years now.
Scott Benner 1:02:45
That's really nice. Okay, I love how to you're just at the right age where you apologize to everybody before you say anything. I enjoyed. You didn't say I enjoyed being prednisone. I know some people don't like it, but I enjoyed it. And you're like, I know some people don't want to go to camp. But if you don't have to do that, hear Alex. It's okay. Just say what you think. I appreciate that. Yep. We're not gonna. We're not We're not worried. There's no woke mob coming for you, Alex. It's fine.
Alex 1:03:13
No, and it takes so much to offend me or push me a little too far. So even if they did come back, fine.
Scott Benner 1:03:19
I figured you could I tried in the middle and you were fine. So there's just this whole moment, my brains like, we have to understand better how they made the baby. I don't know. I mean, it just has to be Oh, my gosh, no. Well, somebody's not talking about I'm sorry. You got me. Too, delighted by you. I've lost my, my professional edge. Do I have a professional?
Alex 1:03:47
You do? And I think you're you're maintaining it pretty? Well, I think the two of us just seem to have a good time. And we're having a good conversation. I mean, yeah, you know, lived my entire life with diabetes. So I'm sure if you ask enough questions, you'll hit on different things if you wanted to.
Scott Benner 1:04:05
Okay, well, I do want to know then, what the difference is between modern management and what you are accustomed to till you were 12, like it rearview mirror kind of description of diabetes, where it's common, why it's important.
Alex 1:04:23
I hate to think that people are being diagnosed at the intense numbers that we're seeing. And I think, if you are going to be diagnosed now is the better time than any. And I know that's weird to say, because I'm sure in five years we'll have even more insanely advanced technology, but I really enjoy that I was able to grow up and kind of go through life with the management I had given. There were some hurdles of course, but I think because it also allows me to not hyper fixate and my CGM. So in 30 years I've been with Medtronic tandem. I'm currently on the Omnipod. Five with with Dexcom. And I really love it. And my first closed loop experience was with Medtronic system. And I'll be honest, I went into it thinking I'm gonna hate it. Like, I have gotten my thoughts where I've gotten it this far. Why do I need the machine to do it for me, and I let go of that control really quickly, a lot faster than I anticipated, which I thought was really cool. And if my system were to fail, at some point, I have the skills where I'd be able to move on in, you know, fix it until they got replaced. So if I needed a new controller or Dexcom went haywire, I'd be able to make it a day or two, with very little struggle. I mean, like, I'd probably grumble about it, like, Oh, I got to do shots. But I'd be able to do it, and it would be okay. So I think for me that that really worked out. But I think it's amazing. We you know what we have, I think it's incredibly helpful. I say that I'd be able to put things away. But if my son were to be diagnosed tomorrow, I would be calling everybody to get him on a Dexcom as fast as I possibly can. So I love and respect everything that is out there. And I enjoy knowing that I've got a lot of skills in my pocket that I think some kids don't we did an activity at camp a couple years ago with the cabin I was working with and said, Okay, your pumps don't work right now. You guys have to do the math to figure out your carb counts and insulin for for the dinner. And I was a little scared. Everyone was like deer in headlights. They looked at us like, Well, no, our pump does that. And we're like, we know, but like, if your pump failed right now. And I like but our pump does
Scott Benner 1:07:08
that. That's not gonna happen lady plus the UPS guy. I don't know if you heard he brings everything. So it.
Alex 1:07:15
And that's, that's basically. So we like walked him through like how to, you know, figure it out. And then obviously, we let them use their pump to see you know how close and to actually give the Bolus. But I did leave that conversation going, you know, what we, I think we have to do a little bit better about at least letting them know how the pump is getting to these results. But they were they were 13 and 14 year old girls, and most of them
Scott Benner 1:07:40
didn't know what their acitivity was or what it how it translated to decisions or anything like that.
Alex 1:07:47
Yeah, so I mean it and that's okay. You know, if you don't need the information, you don't need it. Like there's no point in having it necessarily for like a what if and, you know, I would assume mom or dad has that information. But we just thought it'd be kind of a fun, quote unquote, activity, you know, for one meal, and, oh, the pushback we got was,
Scott Benner 1:08:08
I don't know how to get away, leave me alone. Well, I work when we make adjustments to art in settings, which we haven't, in a while, things have been going very smoothly. So I probably should have said that. I'm not, I'm not superstitious at all. And I still was like, Oh, God, don't say I shouldn't said that out loud. But like, That's why I'll text her and I'll be like, hey, you know, we're gonna make some changes in your pump, like, just FaceTime me for a second. And like, now, by the way, the screen sharing on FaceTime even, like, you know, she's making changes to like, our loop algorithm. It's all like, right there. And I'm like, Okay, so we're gonna make your insulin sensitivity 43. And I know, you know, and I just say the same stuff over and over again, I'm like, I know that we're going from 44 to 43. But just remember, that's making it stronger, not weaker. You know, let's make your Basal this at night. Because we're seeing this happen. I just figure if I keep saying the why I'm doing it as I'm doing it. Like, she'll have no choice but to understand it. You know, like, I'll kind of like, trick, I mean, not for nothing. I'm basically tricking her to take care of herself, like, sort of like the way I'm tricking all of you into doing it. By like having conversations and bringing stuff up here and there and letting it drop in and fade away and bring it back. And I think it's working but I am now fascinated if I said to her, like do a meal. But you know what she swags Boy, that's not a word I ever use to people no swag. She guesses her carbs. So well. I bet you she could do it. But But if she had to know the math of it for a correction, I think she'd come up with the answer, but I don't think she'd know why she was at the answer mathematically. That makes sense.
Alex 1:09:47
No, that's, I feel like I mean, she's had it 16
Scott Benner 1:09:54
She's almost 17 years. In a couple a couple more.
Alex 1:09:59
I feel like some of It does become just so second nature. I mean, how can it not after day to day and like so many times throughout the day? I think that was yes, I can I can get her if she's not doing the math, she could at least come close, probably within a half a unit. I think that makes sense to me.
Scott Benner 1:10:19
Let me ask you this, right now appear to know what you do for a living. Are you willing to talk about it?
Alex 1:10:25
Absolutely. I'm surprised it took this long.
Scott Benner 1:10:28
When I was a kid, and we were young, and we're graduating from high school, and people are getting ready to go to college and go into work and stuff. My buddy's like, I'm going to become a funeral director. And I'm like, yeah, and he goes, Yeah, man, for sure. And I was like, why? And he goes, I have a job right till the end. And I'm like, what he goes, people aren't gonna stop dying. I'll always have money. It's like, Well, okay, rock solid thought. And so. But here, I'm going to tell you his best story, that I want to hear that I want to give your best story. He was once preparing a body. And he found things stuffed in the person's throat. And they came to he saw he solved a murder. Oh my gosh. So while he's preparing the body, he saw something way down in the throat. And he got it out. And then what ended up happening was a young This is such a crazy story. But a young neighbor of an older person murdered this older person by like shoving a rag down their throat and something else. And it was so gone from sight that they just assumed the person just died. Wow. Oh, my friend solved a murder.
Alex 1:11:45
That's good for him. That is cool, fantastic. Child.
Scott Benner 1:11:50
Have you ever solved a murder? Alex? That's what I'm asking.
Alex 1:11:53
I have no, I have not solved a murder. I feel like I need to step up. My game.
Scott Benner 1:12:00
Did you just think oh my gosh, I've never looked down everybody's throat. I wonder how many murdered people I didn't find?
Alex 1:12:06
No, you know, I mean, okay, so I don't work in the prep room is often anymore. If anyone in the prep room is listening to this, they'll be like, you never work in the prep room. It's been a long time. So I'm not the one who typically gets people ready for their services I used to, and I did really enjoy that part of, of the profession. But no, now I'm gonna ask our team like, Hey, why aren't we solving any emergency?
Scott Benner 1:12:35
Why is nobody trying hard enough? Are you being you're just what's it like? Being around deceased bodies? I don't even know how to use the phrasing wrong. Probably. Right. I was gonna say dead bodies. And that seemed harsh than deceased bodies seems I mean, just the deceased, right? What should I say? First of all?
Alex 1:12:55
No, you're good. I would say this is probably the softest way of saying that because
Scott Benner 1:13:01
I've watched my friend who he lives in the funeral home above the funeral home, which is not uncommon. By the way, if you've seen six feet under on HBO,
Alex 1:13:08
I lived in the home, I work at this. There's a beautiful apartment in this space above our funeral home that's reserved for the apprentices typically. So when I was an apprentice and early director, I lived up above there, it's got its pros.
Scott Benner 1:13:26
Or the cons that there are six bodies in the basement at all times, or what's the cons, ultimately, that
Alex 1:13:33
even if it's not your weekend on call, if there's a funeral, like you're expected to, you know, get the flower door open and kind of if something happens, you're the one that kind of has to attend to it, which fortunately, things don't typically happen. But you'll get, you know, a call on the weekend to go, Hey, I've got a family dropping off clothes, can you make sure the doors open? You know, tomorrow at noon? It's like, sure didn't have plans or anything. But yeah, I can make that happen here.
Scott Benner 1:14:00
So what's always stunned me about his life is that, you know, he moved in there, he's had three children, they raised his children in that house, they're so comfortable with death, like just and not in a morbid or creepy way. It's just a, it's just such I've always thought of it as a good thing. Like, they're just like to see little children playing hide and seek around caskets, or like, you know, or when you have an event with a bunch of people to get together. And it's his turn to host. And you're having dinner in the same room where there are services because that's where the space and the tables are and stuff like that. Like it's a really different experience, but it becomes very normal very quickly.
Alex 1:14:39
It does, and I think so one of the foster kiddo who we still see on weekends, if they, when they were living with us, no, probably like nine or 10 at the time, and because they were at an age to understand kind of What I do not maybe the specifics, but they've at least heard a funeral directors before. And there was one day I came home from work, and they asked, so who died today? And it was meant in a very, like, I'm trying to connect with you and ask about your day. But we're like, okay, that's, Let's not ask that. Like, that's not, that's not the question that we're gonna go with. But I am a firm believer that you shouldn't shield children away from death, that at an age appropriate level, there needs to be a conversation. And if there's not, that's how you end up with 30 year olds who won't go to a funeral. And I think that's really hard for a lot of people. Because you, you know, you want to protect your kids. And I understand that. But shielding them from everything doesn't exactly prepare them, you know, for later on. So what is your way to story? Oh, that's a good one. I don't know that it would be many people weirdest, but it was day one on the job. So it really sticks in my head. We had a family whose loved one passed away, he was probably in his late 30s. And they donated his his organs and tissues. And what that means, sometimes is that they will take your arm and leg bones as well. So I had to watch right had an opportunity to watch how they dress this guy who is really nothing more than his trunk and appendages. But those were replaced now with PVC pipes to hold shape. And I remember thinking, what the heck did I get myself into. And I think I'm going to do this for a really long time. So it was weird enough that it definitely will always stick with me as like first day on the job. This is what we're leading with. But not enough that it scared me off.
Scott Benner 1:17:04
Here's the thing that has so far in my life of all the things that my friend has shared with me. The thing that's, like, weirded me out the most. Is that for women of a certain breast size, he stitches the he stitches the breast together so they stand up in the coffin.
Alex 1:17:26
Yep, yeah. You that yeah, that's like a trick of the train. Yeah, there's
Scott Benner 1:17:33
that was just so I just see it though. I was like, Oh, okay. Is it? Can I ask a question? Why do you have to embalm a body to cremate it? You know, you don't have to?
Alex 1:17:45
Okay. No, you don't. So at least in the state of Wisconsin, if the only reason you would have to be embalmed is if you were having an open casket service more than 24 hours after a person passed away, or if they were being sent out of state. So in order now, minus any religious reasoning, so if someone passes away in Wisconsin, and is going back home for a funeral, we would have to involve here before getting them on the plane
Scott Benner 1:18:16
to cost the UPS body across the country.
Alex 1:18:21
Right now, you're looking at about 2500
Scott Benner 1:18:27
Oh, Mom, you're getting buried in Wisconsin?
Alex 1:18:31
Yeah, right now. I mean, that also depends. So I mean, we have milk. So I work in South Milwaukee. And South Milwaukee has a pretty strong affiliation with like lacrosse, a lot of people from the lacrosse area moved to this outside of Milwaukee for a lot of factory jobs. So we oftentimes are going anywhere, you know, from lacrosse to the cities. And we'll weigh out the cost difference. Like if it's going to be cheaper to drive, like to lacrosse or Minnesota. We'll just make the trip. So sometimes, driving is easier. I think we've driven to Indiana. Yeah, like for your mom's example, I don't know that it's going to be more cost effective to drive her back East. But yeah, it'll end I mean, it depends on gas prices and airline flights and stuff like that.
Scott Benner 1:19:30
I just want to be cremated. I have to be honest. I Yeah. You know, what just happened that was really funny is that apparently Lacrosse is a town in Minnesota. But when you started saying it, you said a lot of people from lacrosse, like moved here and I'm like, wait, people who play lacrosse showed up in South was kind of like, Alright, no, no, that doesn't make sense. So then I then I started thinking, Is she mispronouncing the, I think there's a cos in France like is maybe she's mispronouncing that. And then eventually I'm like Oh, there's just another town called the cross some Crosse, Wisconsin. Okay. My brain just kept stepping through the conversation trying to find out what you were talking about. And I was all over the place. At one point, I thought, isn't there a clothing manufacturer with a name like that? Like maybe people who work there moved there for the job?
Alex 1:20:18
wasn't very clear. Yeah. along the Mississippi and the Wisconsin side, but
Scott Benner 1:20:26
wait, now you're really freaking me out the Mississippi rivers in Wisconsin.
Alex 1:20:29
It Yeah, it starts up but goes right along, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and then all the way down.
Scott Benner 1:20:36
Holy Hell, we're learning stuff today. Okay. See, ya. By the way, I'm at a point now I don't even know what this is about. There's no way this they I can't name this episode, anything. It's ridiculous. We're all over the place. I love it, though.
Alex 1:20:49
We'll come up with something. And I should I do love the funeral directing. I am very happy to still be a licensed director. I'm, I'm actually in the process of going back to school. But I don't think I will ever not be somehow involved with funeral service.
Scott Benner 1:21:07
I'm going to ask you a weird question that I think relates to something diabetes, we'll see if it goes for you. i Oh, okay. So I'm going to I don't know what the position is that to talk about it. But like, so I make this podcast to help people, right. But it's a business too. And it makes money. And it makes money through advertising. So there are times when you're in meetings, talking about advertising, and it feels wrong to be talking about it because it's people's health. Right. And so I'm always very conflicted. Anytime I sit in the meeting, and they're talking about like, penetration for the podcast, listen through rates, like how far are they listening through? Do they share it? What states are you like, strongest? And like when there's questions like that, I just, I'm like, my mind is gone. I just want to help people. This is how I pay for it. It's okay, I make my living this way. It's all right, like, but it always feels wrong. You're oddly in a sales position as a funeral director. And I'm wondering how you, like, how do you deal with that moment?
Alex 1:22:07
It is really tricky. And one it's some point someone in my life made a very simple, but poignant statement of you can't spend other people's money. So the good thing is we are not like a commission based, like funeral home. So whether you buy the cheapest or most expensive stuff, it does not matter to me, even if it was commissioned, it would not matter to me. Whatever works for your loved one is what I'm going to do for you. My job is to make I want to see you happy, because you're never going to be happy with a funeral per se, but kind of like me. You guys hopefully know what I mean.
Scott Benner 1:22:54
Yeah, no, I understand. I just, it's, you're in a unique position to know how I feel. So I was wondering about that.
Alex 1:23:01
Yeah, no, it's definitely it's definitely weird. And money definitely needs to be discussed. But yeah, like, it's, it's very strange. I can't say enough about rearranging like, you know, if, if you're in a position to do so, that makes it a lot easier for your family, and for the funeral home. Like you get to say what you want, you get to pick your stuff out. And then it does make that money conversation a lot easier.
Scott Benner 1:23:33
Okay. Have you ever seen an argument between, like children, like one of them wants to bury mom was something expensive? And the other one's like, don't put that in there? Either. They
Alex 1:23:41
every family's got a dynamic, and that's fine. I mean, my family has their own dynamic, too. But oh, yeah, like we've had people walk out of arrangements we've had, like you. It's always sad when someone's passing is viewed by a family member is a paycheck. And if you can see for those people, even when they're trying to not make it seem like that, you can tell, oh, you're, you're not choosing to do what your parents wanted, because you're hoping for a bigger payout like that. That sucks. Like, that's hard.
Scott Benner 1:24:18
You know, one of the things that I've learned in the last couple of years that threw me off, which seems similar, is that when my mom after my mom's surgery, she had to go to like a facility where she could rehab but also they could help take care of her right. And this place was also like it's a home where people end up sometimes living for the rest of their lives. The stories from the staff, that people come in big smiles, they drop off their parents, and I'll see you tomorrow mom, blah, blah, blah, and then they never come back. And not just not I'm not saying they don't visit. They ghost the place. They don't pay the bill. They literally just abandon their parents there. That's a freak one occurrence.
Alex 1:25:01
That is terrible. That is just horrendous.
Scott Benner 1:25:05
I just I didn't know what to think of that. And my buddy helped me find a place for my mom, my buddy's a funeral director, because he said, Listen, you can tell a lot about these places about how the areas of the building that the public can't see are kept. And it's like, I come in the back, I come in downstairs, this place is very clean. The people are respectful behind the scenes. This is a place I think that's how we ended up picking where my mom went.
Alex 1:25:33
Absolutely. I have people periodically asked me questions about, you know, Mom's going on hospice, you know, is there somewhere you would recommend? And usually let them know where I would not recommend? But you have to, you know, you got to be careful, because people, yeah, you know, you got to be careful on how you make recommendations. But I, yeah, people. And I tell people ask away, I will let you know if I would not trust my family member somewhere.
Scott Benner 1:26:06
No, no, it's interesting to get like a backroom view of it. And from a funeral directors where I got it from, which is both sad and obvious, I think at the same time. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Okay. All right, Alex, you're terrific. I am, I'm in the position where I feel like we could do this forever, which eventually, it'll get too long. Not for me. By the way, I could easily listen to a three hour podcast, but not everybody is me. So I stopped them. Right? Yeah. Some people like there's no short ones, or they've been getting long lately. Like, Oh,
Alex 1:26:38
okay. Yeah. And then one setting. I mean, you can get caught
Scott Benner 1:26:41
breaking a little. That's all I listened to something this morning. And I paused it to do this. And we go, pause, just make sure you come back and get through the ads. Because if you don't get to the ads, and my listen through rate goes to hell, and then it's hard to you know, anybody support the podcast? I don't mind if you fall asleep listening to it, as long as the player keeps rolling. And those of you while I'm making my pitches as those of you who listen and a spouse listens, and you listen on the same device, you're killing me. Okay. Oh, my God, downloaded on another app for the other is two people. I deserve two downloads. i Oh, my goodness. Alex, nobody understands my problems. What do you think people will remember about this episode when I when I blurted out that I'm not bringing my mom home because it cost $2,500 to move her.
Alex 1:27:34
We've got a lot of different points in this.
Scott Benner 1:27:39
We went, we went from like, we went from a lesbian couple artificially inseminated themselves at home in a DIY situation to how you bury people and stitch their breasts together, so they look nice. And I used to hold about the pipes in the in the oh my god, this is all
Alex 1:27:57
points. People could be like, well, this lady's not for me.
Scott Benner 1:28:01
No, I think you were terrific. Yay. No, this was wonderful. I had a great time. Are you kidding? Stop it. I'm the arbiter of what's okay. By the way, I get to decide. You don't like it? Don't listen. Although please keep listening. I'd really again, nevermind. Anything. I forgot to ask you anything you want to say?
Alex 1:28:18
I don't think so. I think we we did a good job. I think if anyone is able to take anything out of our wonderful conversation, I hope if there's newly diagnosed families listening, I hope they feel a little bit better knowing your kiddo is going to be okay. Like,
Scott Benner 1:28:38
no 100% and bind to a foster child like you're fostering children. Like I don't I don't I'm not that kind. I know. I'm not. I want to think I am. But I don't know. I don't think I know I'm adopted. How bizarre is that? It's a strange thing. Could I do it? It didn't? I don't know. It never came up in my life. That's not the point. The point is, is that it seems it seems like such a kindness to me. Like I almost feel like I don't know that I'm that kind. In case there's not a lot. It's a lot of right.
Alex 1:29:15
I mean, because of the trauma that is involved in fostering and adapting world. It actually led my wife to the career that she's on. And she helps keep families together ultimately is what she does. She helps families who who need help in navigating their kids behavior. She She does some really cool things. I've a lot of people say they couldn't do what I do as a funeral director. There's no way that I could do what she does. So you're right. I mean, fostering is a is a wild and intense thing to do.
Scott Benner 1:29:57
The first time my kid was like, really annoying. I was like, Oh, well, I now I know why they the they make you love them so much like so because I want them to leave. You know, it's very upsetting.
Alex 1:30:10
And if you don't always necessarily like, oh, well,
Scott Benner 1:30:14
no, I actually liked my son. I'm just saying the first time he did something where I was like, What the hell is this? Like you realize like, well, it doesn't matter. Like, he can't go anywhere like, you don't I mean, like we're gonna figure this all out. But when it's somebody else's child, I'm wondering if you're like, Wow, this didn't work out, you can go now. But but a lovely answered on the list. By the way, I can tell what a good time I'm having with you. Because the funny part of my brain is still working, because you're saying something very serious. And you're like, that's what, what led my wife to the job she's in and my brain thought human trafficking?
Like no, that would have people would have been like, Alright. Oh, that's fun. That's money. Thank you. I don't know. Like, again, I've said it before. I'll say it again. I'm letting you hear about 40% of my thoughts, the rest of them would really throw you off. Nevertheless, thank you so much for doing this. Can you hold on one second for me? Absolutely. Thanks.
Hey, I really want to thank Alex for coming on the show and sharing her fantastic story and having such a good time with me. And I just want to remind you about all of the great content that lives inside of the Juicebox Podcast, go find it. Look on the private Facebook group, check out juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top. There's so much great information. Actually, I didn't mention it earlier. But in the private Facebook group in the feature tab. There are lists of all these episodes with corresponding episode numbers on them so you could find them very easily in your audio apps. Speaking of that, podcast is completely free. Just subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify, or wherever you get your audio and dig right in. I don't talk about this stuff with frequency but the Juicebox Podcast is number 16. Today in the United States of America medicine category on Apple podcasts. It is number 16. 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#1054 Parenting: Understanding Parenting Styles
Scott and Erika talk about understanding parenting styles - the pros and cons of authoritarian, permissive, uninvolved, authoritative and the impact they have.
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1054 of the Juicebox Podcast
welcome back to my parenting series with Erica Forsythe. Today's episode is understanding parenting styles. There are a number of different parenting styles, not just ones to choose from you actually fall into one you may not even know it, you may fall into more than one. Today we're going to find out about those styles and the impacts that they have. Kind of look at the pros and cons of each. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Erica Forsythe is available to you at Erica forsythe.com Be sure to check her out. She's fantastic. Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, go find your community. People are out there they're looking to help you. And they may just need your help to Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook, make a friend or don't lurk around. I don't care use it however you want. Speaking of using things however you want, go check out the diabetes Pro Tip series. It's at diabetes pro tip.com juicebox podcast.com. We're running right now between Episode 1001 1026 In your audio player. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from and you can to us med.com/juice box go there now get your free benefits check and get started. If you don't want to use the internet, that's fine. Pick up the phone 888-721-1514. That number is especially for Juicebox Podcast listeners, give it a call, get going. The podcast is sponsored today by better help. Better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues. Better help.com forward slash juicebox to get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy that way better help can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. Erica, how are you?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:37
I'm doing well. Thanks. Good to see you. Today.
Scott Benner 2:41
Are you excited? We're going to start our first series together.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:45
I'm very excited. This is this is a special occasion. Yes,
Scott Benner 2:48
absolutely. It's like a holiday without gifts. So I came to America a little while ago. It's been a couple of months now I guess. And I said I'd love to do. I mean my first thing out of my mouth was I'd love to do a series about what you see with your job about parenting like styles good, bad, what works with us and where problems come from like all this stuff. And from that little bit of an idea, we build out a series. So this is the first episode. I don't even know that I know what we're going to call it yet. So I won't be able to say right now. But in today's episode, Erica and I are going to talk about understanding parenting styles. And by that I mean she's going to talk and I'm going to ask some silly questions. And that'll probably be it. So let me list them here because Eric has given them to me as an already I'm confused because two of them sound the same. Authoritarian, permissive, uninvolved and authoritative. And that's the order. We're going to do them in today.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:50
Yes, okay. Yes.
Scott Benner 3:52
So let's dig right in.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:54
Okay, let's dig right in. And I think just to preface that as you listen to our discussion on these styles to just be mindful of your your self talk. And if you find yourself, you know, going into, you know, a shame spiral or just really getting hard on yourself, as you listen to these different styles. Just want to remind you that we are, you know, neither Scott nor I are perfect parents, there's no such thing as perfect parenting. And we're just really hopeful in as we go through some of these styles and parenting strategies that it will be it'll be helpful and not hurtful. And just to be kind to yourself as we go through these these different styles.
Scott Benner 4:36
Yeah, I will, like just come out and say my whole idea behind this, is that tardy hard enough to be a parent, and then your child's diagnosed with, you know, an incurable disease or you have one and you still have to be apparent to somebody. You know, these things are easy. They easily can get away from you, and become backburner stuff that you just think good is good. Enough, you don't, you know, you don't step back and see yourself anymore and a lot of spiraling can happen. And if you're not paying attention to those things, and communication breaks down and relationships fall apart, it's pretty likely that you'll stop taking care of your health along that way too. So that's why I thought it was important. But anyway, authority Parian. Is that right? Yes.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:23
Yes. So, and one more quick intro that Dr. Diana baumrind. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Introduced, she noticed, she's a psychologist in the 1960s, studying at Cal Berkeley, she noticed that there were these styles of behaviors and personalities and preschoolers. And through her research, she noticed that there were reflective of certain parenting styles. And then in the 1980s, Dr. McCabe, McCabe and Martin introduced, expanded the model. So that's where these terms came from those psychologists, so starting off with authoritarian is that that's we're starting off
Scott Benner 6:06
with correct Absolutely, while I'm googling it, so I can keep Okay. Okay.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:09
So, authoritarian parents, just to give an example, they might be overheard saying, Because I said so. And I you say that emphasis they are really believe in rules, they often will feel like it's, you know, it's either your way their highway type of parenting, and you, if you see your child exhibiting a certain behavior, you will follow through with certain punishment or discipline, and often emphasize that you know, you've made the rules, you're going to enforce the consequences, and you aren't really engaging the child in learning or correcting the behavior, but rather just focusing on hey, I'm the parent, I'm in charge, you said it in that you said, this particular thing in that tone, or you did this behavior, and now you're going to be punished. The children might be responding in a way that they might become more hostile or aggressive. If you're if you're leaning into an authoritarian type of parenting.
Scott Benner 7:19
Do some children, not like not want to be told what to do? But some like it, though, right? Not to say it's a great style or not, but some people want to be told what to do. Also, you find that,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:33
absolutely. So I think as we go through all these styles, yes, there are, you might hear something that we say, and you might remember yourself saying something, I'm sure I've said this as a parent, at some point, there isn't there's a time and place for maybe different aspects of these different styles. And creating really firm boundaries and expectations is healthy. And if you are authoritarian type of parent, you are going to really uphold that. And those that's a positive I think, where it can become confusing and create maybe some more problem, problematic behavior for the child later on, is the delivery and then not really spending a whole lot of time in that that warm nurturing space in the relationship with the child. So you are you are you are the parent, you have the rules, you're enforcing them. But there's no there's not a lot of time spent in the relationship building the trust building, that type of thing.
Scott Benner 8:32
Do people seem to have trouble? Being flexible or moving between these four styles? Like do I guess? Is it once an authoritarian, always authoritarian kind of a feeling?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:45
That's a great question. I think maybe naturally, you might lean into one type of style. And you also might be a response to how you were parented. As a child, you might do exactly the way you were, you might want to replicate that you might want to do the opposite. And so I would say stereotypically, as parents, we might kind of repeatedly and automatically lean into a certain style, but given the nature of our stress are exhausting our own physical and mental health, we might find ourselves popping in and out of different types of styles. But generally, I would say we might, you might lean into one more than the other. And these are sort of natural, you can't be it's not permanent, you can always change
Scott Benner 9:28
yes or no you could I mean, whether you will or not, I don't know but so my expectation is that the doctor you brought up earlier, she recognized these four buckets that people seem to fit into. And I as your I don't want to say what I'm gonna say yet look, I'm sorry. I'm gonna hold my thought till the end there, okay, that's what I'm gonna do. Okay, okay, so these, this could be more obedience discipline is this. Like, where? Like, how about yelling and like, is that all fit into This model,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:01
I would say yelling, if you, if you do practice more of a physical type of punishment, I would suggest that you probably heard authoritarian type of parent, you often maybe without intending to, you're you're wanting the kids to really feel sorry for the, for the mistakes or what they did. And really, you want them to really recognize that, again, it's not necessarily all bad all the time, we want our children to be able to understand that we maybe did or said something that was incorrect or, or cruel. But again, it's the delivery and the connection and the relationship that you have with the child is how you are parenting your child, whether it's authoritative or different style.
Scott Benner 10:45
Is there any situation or scenario you can think of where this is a positive? Or is this mostly a negative way of parenting people?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:55
I think there are certain, like thinking about like safety. Right? Where, you know, don't you do not run after the ball across the street without looking both ways? Or, you know, various you do not swim in the pool without an adult present, again, that I think those those are really strict because I said so well, you know, why? Why can I go swimming without a parent President? Well, because I said, so. And that's the rule. So I think, is that is that? Are you being authoritarian that moment?
Scott Benner 11:24
Because if you leave it up to them, their little soft minds might think their way out of it and go, Oh, you know, she said, we can't swim without somebody here. But Bill is here, he's nine, and we're all six. He's got us, like, you know, like, they could think their way through it and try to come up here. So it's, you want to leave them with a feeling like if I get in this pool, someone's coming at me? Like, I don't know, if it'll be, you know, I'm stuck in my room. I mean, some people might slap some, but I don't know, like, you know, what I mean, like screaming and yelling, like, you know, any anywhere in between, I guess, in that in that kind of, you know, from violence to just, you know, locked down, I guess. But if it works, and nobody drowns, that you kind of feel like, alright, well, it did work. And I think then that builds on your that can build on your problem, because here's a great example, the swimming thing, where we have firm rules, you have to follow them, there's no way around it. Great. But then as the parent, I guess, you see that work, and then all of a sudden, it's vacuum the room because I said, so like, because it's easier, and you're tired? Probably, you know,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:29
that's right. And and ultimately, it's, you know, you want to protect your child and out of fear and concern, you really want your child to obey that rule. I think where maybe the difference? Like, yes, are you being authoritarian in saying no swimming without an adult present? Because I said, so. But then if when your child disobeyed that rule, maybe where we would see a difference in parenting style is, is the consequences and like, yes, is your child going to have a consequence for disobeying? And then are you going to explain it, you know, you're gonna sit down and say, I love you, and I want you to be safe. And I know it's still so if you're about spending time validating why the child feels frustrated, or is just because I said, So in your room for an hour done. So you could have
Scott Benner 13:13
authoritarian expectations and lay the rules down in that in that vein, but if it goes wrong, you could respond not in an authoritarian way. Yes, I think that's probably the balance that you're trying to strike there. Right? That makes sense to me. Okay, so what are some of the negatives if you lean too hard into this? And I mean, is it child to child, like, meaning I first I want to just say, like, I'm not here telling you, I think you should hit people or anything like that. I'm not saying that. I'm just imagining some people do and try to speak kind of like broadly here. But is there a world where one of your kids is just out of their freakin mind? And like, this is the only thing they respond to? And in the moment, you know, it's not the right thing, but it's the only thing keeping them from seeing if they can jump from the patio, across the something into the pool or something like you don't I mean, like, what about the crazy kids? Like, what do you? I don't mean crazy, crazy. I mean, like, what about the ones that are like, a lot of energy and hard to handle, and you're pretty sure they're gonna end up under a car.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:16
I think you might even find as you give in this example, I'm thinking about parents and myself included who we might have different styles for different children, right, because of their personality, because of our energy level of when we, you know, did you have one child? And then five years later, you had your second year little bit older, you're tired, or did they present differently? And so, yes, I think there are certain aspects of each style that might fit more appropriately with your particular child and how they present. Ultimately, you always want to focus on building that relationship with the child. And that's so I think, yes, there might be certain examples, in which case, the authoritarian command and consequence may be appropriate. But not I would say not consistently.
Scott Benner 15:10
Erica, I find almost every one of our conversations frustrating, it's not because of you. It's got nothing to do with you. It's just about how the human mind works. Because I can't even envision a situation where you've got one kid who responds well to one style, and one kid that responds well to the other style. But one of the styles is you're locked in your room all the time, or you've taken one upside the head once or twice. And you look over at the other one you like, you just ask her what to do. And she just does it and everything's like, you're so great, but like, and how do you turn to the first kid and say, we have all that works for them? And you can't do that either. There's no winning if anyone's listening. What I'm trying to tell you is do not have children. That's my dad's. There's no winning this game. Erica doesn't believe that's true. I believe it's true. I don't think you can. I don't think you can win. I think you're mitigating that. I think you're always mitigating. You don't I mean, and it's okay, so, yes. I'm sorry, made Erica laugh, and she lost her train of thought. But tell me what, what are some of the real negatives of this? If you have a kid who doesn't respond well to this style, and you're using it on them? What could come of that? Everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM, like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514 or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arlen does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the show.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:56
I think part and most of this has been research based that children who are exposed to authoritarian parents, most of the time, they might grow up to feel like their their opinions, their feelings aren't necessarily considered or matter. They might present with either lower self esteem, sometimes they might become more hostile or aggressive in their play as younger kids and then as they get older, you know, in different types of behaviors they might become, they might just be really angry at you at themselves, because they never really understand like, why are they Why am I always told to do this thing, but I don't really understand it. So when I'm not when the child is not being able to have an opportunity to express how they feel or ask questions or learn. Then the kind of the automatic responses, I'm just gonna be angry. At my parents, I'm gonna be angry at myself, like probably swimming in a lot of shame. Sorry, go ahead
Scott Benner 19:01
and how does that carry into adulthood?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:03
I think that would be like as an adult, maybe not knowing how to properly identify and express how you feel. Probably having a lot of I'm not good enough type of thinking. No matter what I do, I'm not seen or valued or heard. Feeling a deal. That's like the lower self esteem type of talk.
Scott Benner 19:28
I can also see a feedback loop here. That's probably not great. Because if you're the parent, and you somehow either decide or you grew up this way, and you go with it, by the way saying that someone went with this parenting style, I think is ridiculous. I don't think anyone sits down and goes, I wonder how I'm gonna parent this kid. I think it just whatever comes out of your mouth was what comes out of your mouth, right? But if you decide authoritarians, the way to go, and the kid pushes back, then every time the kid pushes back, it reinforces your idea that they need this kind of thing. left down, right? Because look how they're hard. They're difficult like Bob like, But meanwhile, you could go with a different thing where they might just be like, oh, cool, alright. And you'll never know, because you won't think to try that one. Oh, okay.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:12
That's, that is really a great observation, because then you owe that. And then in your narrative, you might start to say, and, and you'll talk to your friends or your partner. Gosh, you know, Johnny's so stubborn. He's He's so strong willed. And we really need to, like crack down on on his tone and his behavior. And, yeah, and then itself kind of perpetuates itself.
Scott Benner 20:39
Okay, is there more to say about this? Or can we move on to the next,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:42
you know, I was just, I was trying to find I was gonna give some a data point, but I wanted to be able to reference it, that 20 In the US, it says roughly 26%, use the authority terrian parenting style, but I want to make sure as I go through the I will try and find
Scott Benner 21:01
what you think about is that you think you've seen about 26%.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:06
That's what this article says. And I want to make sure I can find where they got that. So I'll continue to look for that as well.
Scott Benner 21:12
While you're doing that, I'll move on. The next one is permissive parenting. I'm just gonna go from the internet is the type of parenting style characterized by low demands with high responsiveness. I already don't understand that sentence. Permissive parents tend to be very loving, yet provide few guidelines and rules. These parents do not expect mature behavior from their children, and often seem more like a friend than a parental figure that seemed more accurate to
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:38
Yes, yes. So you might have rules as a permissive parent, but you're not going to always consistently enforce them or follow them. You may give out some consequences, but not consistently. And you kind of you live in kind of this mindset of like, I really want my child to figure things out by themselves. And that, right, like even just saying that that's not all bad, no, right, right, to let yourself to let your child learn and, you know, make mistakes. There is an element that we of course, we want our child or you know, our children to learn and make mistakes. Are we allowing them to act in a way or make mistakes that are really problematic and hurtful to themselves and others? And do we kind of allow that a lot of people might say permissive parenting is like indulgent parenting, okay, like letting them kind of run rule the roost?
Scott Benner 22:36
Do you think it comes? Like our thoughts about these things? Do you think it comes from when you're an adult, you think back to someone who you knew who was treated that way, and they didn't turn out? Well, sort of, like, if I'm being honest, there's like three female names from when I was growing up, I would have never named a daughter, because I knew three girls with this name. And they skeeve me out for one reason or another, like so like, you just couldn't wrap your mind around calling your kid that. And I wonder if you don't look up and say, Well, I'm going to be this way. Because the person who sticks out my mind has been a real, it was definitely raised like this. And so I'm going to try to stay away from that without giving any, any weight to all the other variables that would help make that decision. I wonder if that's why we kind of besides how we were treated, because if you were treated permissively I would think just like with the with the last one, you're either going to come out of it one way or the other, either, you're going to be like some low energy, like Stoner, right? Like literally like, Hey, man, everything's fine. Or you're gonna think I am lucky to be alive. Because my parents didn't help me at all. And I'm going to do that thing for them. Yes,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:46
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Either, like an having a more grateful experience, or never really learned boundaries, consequences. And so you're continuing to maybe test those boundaries. Yeah. I think, as a child, or excuse me, as a parent, you might have the mindset of like, well, you know, kids will be kids. And again, I know my tone that was kind of more of a critical tone, but sometimes kids will be kids. And that's okay. And so I think it's this, striking this balance between giving them permission to make some choices grow, learn. But then when they're when they do come up against that the boundary of the rule that you've set, where you are more of a permissive parent is not following through, like not always giving the timeout or not. And again, there's it's really hard to be consistent. So
Scott Benner 24:44
as I think about this, each one of these styles comes with its own positive and negative possible outcomes. And they all kind of follow the same thing. Like if you're very permissive with somebody, they might end up just, you know, in your dwell and they also I don't know might not but I will say this, with the exception of like, being a douchebag. I don't see how you'd go real bad being permissive with somebody like if you were, you know what I mean, unless they turned him into a, I don't know a loan sharking, drug dealer or something like that. But like, didn't you mean like in a regular scenario, I think you would get kind of a mellow person out of a permissive, they might not be go getters, they might not be, you know, a captain of industry or something like that. But I think on a human level, I don't think you could go. I don't think this one sounds really damaging to me. And by the way, the first one, the authoritarian one, for the right person, you might create a real like, you know, like somebody who goes out there and gets at it and doesn't screw around and gets things done. And I don't know maybe needs to be whipped on a Friday afternoon in a dungeon. But other than that, they're pretty reasonable. I like that you're just nodding through that you're like so used to being like, you just gotta let it out somewhere, Scott, like with a dominatrix. I hear what you're saying. And like, but you don't mean like, again? Alright, let me ask you this. We've gone through two of these. Have we hit the style you use?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:19
I'm certainly would, if I were totally honest, I there have been certain moments where I've been authoritarian. There have been moments where I've been permissive, there probably been moments or neglectful, I'd like to say I'd lean in the authoritative but I can I can read and research and talk about all of these styles into Oh, yeah, I was. I was certainly that style last night. Yeah. And I think that's, that's a normal, natural thing. For all of us.
Scott Benner 26:44
I'll give away to a minute. But yeah, Arden reminded me the other day, she's like, do you remember like 15 years ago when you were really sick? And cold did something and he took his cell phone and threw it across the room? And I went, Yeah, I remember that. She goes, that took us by surprise. And I said, I regret that if I'm being honest. And I have no, like, I couldn't give you any context where I was incredibly ill. And I don't know what happened. Like something I honestly don't know any of the details. It ended with me. Trying, I don't even know, I think I was trying to do something shocking to stop whatever was happening from happening. But if I could look back from a high level, they were probably just being kids. And I was, I don't know, I didn't feel good. And I just did something stupid. I've said this on the podcast before. So I started out as a very like, like a loving parent. Like I'm I come from a river. I think that's pretty obvious if we're talking but in a in a, in a situation that I thought the kids were in trouble, I would yell. And that totally came from like, the way I grew up. Because I was constantly somebody was constantly yelling at me. And my wife, like pulled me aside and she's like, You can't yell at the kids. And I was like, but they seem to react well, like, like, we're getting what we want. And she's like, No, no, no. And so that took awhile. I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you. She said it to me. And like, on the next Saturday, I was like, I don't yell anymore. But I really don't yell anymore. Like, and I haven't for, I think it's pretty fair to say like, a decade, maybe. But I did, like I used to. And I've, you know, been smacked as a kid. And I wouldn't say more than maybe a handful of times, but I've smacked my kids, like, you know, not with an intention of taking them off their feet or something like that. But, like kind of shocking them into reality. I've done that a couple of times. The permissive part. Geez, jeez. Yes. In spots. In spots. This is the thing I wasn't gonna say to the end. But I think I'm all four of these is what I was gonna say. I think that there's something incredibly wrong with each one of these. And nothing wrong with each one of these, depending on where you use them. Yeah, permissiveness. Arden came home from college recently. I mean, she's 19. But she said she was going out with friends. And then they were meeting up with more people. And like she never came home. Like she did not come home until like nine o'clock in the morning. Now, in fairness, I can track her phone. So. So I knew they were kind of they were parked at a park, like in the parking lot. And they were taught like I knew who she was with. They were probably just sitting there talking the whole time. You know, we're being stupid. I don't know what they were doing. I did not bother her overnight. I didn't send her a text. I didn't say Hey, you gotta get home. I just use the if she was a college, I wouldn't know where she was. I don't see how this is any different. When Kelly woke up, she's like, Arden didn't come home. Kelly was worried. I said, I'll send her a text. I texted her. I said, Hey, are you okay? And she's like, Yeah, I'm sorry. I'll be home soon. And I was like, Hey, you just you didn't contact us to let us know. And she said, you know, just say the word and I won't do this again. I said, No, no, I'm like It's fine. Just, it would have been cool to wake up this morning to attacks it says, Hey, I'm alright. And not me looking down the hallway thinking, Hey, she hasn't been here since the last time I looked down that hall. And she understood and that was it. That's to me. That's pretty permissive. I and my mom would have thrown me out a window. If I did that. I'm pretty sure. So like, I think literally.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:22
Well, perhaps, but what you've already had worked hard on establishing is that warm, nurturing, like trust relationship? Where had this been happening over and over and over again, with no response? Or a trust that she would change? Right? You you both you trust her that she would respond differently? And she trusts you? Yeah.
Scott Benner 30:44
And also the situation did not warrant craziness. I'll tell you like a week ago, she rolled out of this house like 10 o'clock at night. And I was like, what I was I was up here working. And Kelly was downstairs and I went downstairs like where's art? And she She just left? And I was like, wait, I'm like her blood sugar's low. Like we mean, she just left because yes, she said she needed food. She was low. And I said, did you look at her CGM. And she was I didn't. And I was like, Well, I'm looking. And she's 64. Like, we have a diagonal down arrow. She was going to walk like a convenience store two blocks from here, but she went by herself. I got in the car. And I drove right to that convenience store. And I parked outside. And here's what I thought. If her blood sugar holds steady, she's in the convenience store. I'm going to drive away and she'll never know I was here. And if it goes down one more time, she's gonna look up from that cooler, and I'm gonna be standing next to her. And so her blood sugar dropped again. I walked into the store, we made eye contact. She's like, What are you doing here? And I'm like, your blood. I mouthed that to her. I was like, your blood sugar's low. And she goes, I know. And I was like, okay, she just do you think I drove over here without drinking something first? And I said, No, she goes, if you tested my blood sugar, it's not 50. And I was like, okay, and then I got a Three Musketeers bar for myself and I left. Anyway, to me, that's permissive. I don't know what it is for other people. I couldn't just let somebody like be untethered completely. I don't think I'd be okay with that. So, I don't know,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:17
so permissive, maybe leaning into you set these boundaries, you were there. You know, I think it also goes years of foundation of being present setting expectations, I think of if you're consistently leaning into the permissive style, I think the outcomes would say that you would, the child could be more impulsive, maybe have more difficulty with social skills or relationships. And, you know, not necessarily knowing what is appropriate picking up on all those social cues. And Arden is not presenting with those right now.
Scott Benner 32:59
But I mean, listen, I've, to me, I've seen my son get hurt on a baseball field, and I have not moved. Because I've assessed from a distance, he's not going to die. And I think this is a difficult situation he's going to need to get through on his own. I've also seen him get hit. And I ran onto the field. But it was situational again, you know, so I would, you know, I don't know, to me, it's all the whole thing. Situational, in my opinion, but anyway, permissive. What do you think are some bad outcomes we could see as an adult, if we were raised like this, and it wasn't right for us?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:35
I think the children could struggle again, academically, there might be some of that impulsivity, that I just said, I think the they might have, they might be at higher risk for health problems, not knowing, you know, having if you're in a permissive household in terms of food and sleep, you know, there's a lot of leniency then as a child, you might not understand what's what's a healthy sleep habit. What's a healthy eating habit, too, that might be more at risk for either you know, obesity or sleep issues, which then leads into the research also talks about you know, poor dental, if you're not like, really you are? Yes,
Scott Benner 34:17
we're probably come from that.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:19
Yes. Because if you're like, Whoa, have your your brush your teeth when you're, you know, when you're ready,
Scott Benner 34:24
no harm, no foul, I'm brushing my teeth and there's no harm, no foul on health in general. Like, nothing bad's gonna happen to me because I didn't have to brush my teeth and I'm still okay. And oh, I see. I got it. All right. Yes.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:36
So, again, I really appreciate the way that you're able to hold you know, yes, there are moments to be maybe more in lenient and with this permissive style there is that emphasis in the the warm, nurturing, nurturing responsive parents, but the difference really is there the your there are few rules and there are few consequences for when your child does not follow the rules. Yeah,
Scott Benner 35:02
I mean, I don't look at, if you really listen to the podcast and you're paying attention, I look at diabetes, the way I look at everything. And I look at parenting the way I look at everything to like, there's common sense, there's time for common sense. There's time to be a little aggressive, there's time to lay back, there's time to be, you know, all different ways. And yet, I will tell you that I think my kids are reasonably, like, adjusted. And I don't think I'm perfect that I don't think Kelly is and I don't think they are. But I can tell you that they're not in a crap ton of trouble ever. Like, they're not people who are in trouble. I've never once thought I'm gonna have to go to a police station to get somebody. I've never once thought that someone's gonna say to me, Oh, my God, I'm sorry. I thought it was heroin. Like you don't I mean, like, like, I don't ever think something like that is going to happen, and hasn't so far. But when I've asked my kids about it, like moving forward, because I mean, like, as an example, cocaine, completely available everywhere. Like you can get it in middle school, high school, college, it's like sitting around. And when I asked my son one time, how come you've never tried that? He said, he didn't want to, it was there wasn't something he wanted to do. And so he didn't do it. So I'm comfortable that he's got his own feelings, and he's able to assert them in other places. But he also responded and said, and I think you would have drove, they're taking me out of school and killed me. And I was like, and when he said that, I thought, Oh, good. I absolutely would have done that. And I'm glad he knows. And Arlen piped up. And she said, yeah, there are things I don't do. Not because, like, I want to do them, and I don't but I have thought in my head, like seeing somebody else do something. Like if I did that my dad would probably rip my head off. And I think there's, I think it's good that they're a little scared, to be perfectly honest. I mean, like, they're not scared of me. Obviously, they're not scared of me. But I do think they think in the right situation, if they made the wrong move, I would probably lay waste to what it is, is their life. And I think that's I don't know,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:00
well, and ultimately what I would hear underneath that, or what I would reflect is like they respect you as their parent.
Scott Benner 37:07
I don't think they respect me, but they're definitely scared of what's gonna happen. So is that respect?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:14
Fear Fear based? Yeah, I mean, I think that they, they want to respect and honor they're scared of the consequences. But even children and teens and young adults might choose, I'm quoting the wrong choice, even if they're scared of the consequences, because they don't really care. They don't really respect or love or or want to honor how they've been raised. So I think there is that that foundation of trust and respect,
Scott Benner 37:37
we're also very careful not to lord over them. Like we don't have them in a position where they feel like I can't be myself. Because if these two people don't like what I do, they can change my life. Guys, I never thought that was a good idea. I've seen that done to people that usually financially they hold you, they hold you hostage a little bit. Right. And you can't really be yourself because you're afraid of, of losing your meal ticket. Anyway, I'm sorry, what's the next one on involved?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:05
I'm involved. Sorry, sorry, say that. Again. I
Scott Benner 38:08
said, this one seems like a no brainer. But go ahead.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:11
So yeah, uninvolved, you might have heard it as neglectful this type of parenting style, you might present more a little bit cold, and not really responding to your child's needs, or you know, asking how their day was, there might be a sense of indifference about how your child is doing that, that corresponds to really no rules or an or no consequences. And again, you might feel like even as we're describing this, there are moments where I might feel that you didn't even like I'm being an uninvolved parent. Sometimes it's like, you're you're so exhausted, and you're, you're stressed with work, and you just got into an argument with a family member, and you have nothing left to give to your child. So that's in that moment. Yes, maybe you're you're acting as if you're an uninvolved in our political parent, that's going to happen. But again, we're talking about like this is, if you are a neglectful parent over time, and consistently, there, there are, obviously a lot of negative outcomes in your child. If that's
Scott Benner 39:19
been done consistently over time, is it likely that the parent has some sort of an emotional issue themselves? Because I'm trying to imagine I know that everybody's not me. But, man, it's hard to imagine somebody having a baby and then just being like, whatever, and treating it like a dog that lives outside. I don't, it's hard for me to wrap my head around, but that's not uncommon. Right.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:43
Right. And I think there, there could be so many factors, right? Are you dealing with your own mental health? Are you being triggered because of your own experiences as a child and maybe you are coming from a place of trauma that has not been proud assessed, and it's too painful to see your child do the things that you did. I think the financial stress, family stress, work, stress are major factors at play when you are acting in an uninvolved way, as a parent,
Scott Benner 40:18
it's a little startling to me that you could not know yourself well enough prior to having a baby to say, I probably would be really, really bad at this. So let me stay out of this. Like I respect people who know their limits and stay away from I also don't understand. When people judge what they think is gonna happen in the future, whether it's like buying a car, and you're like, I don't know if I can afford this payment, or something like that. I don't understand people who don't layer on to their thinking, the worst possible outcome, everyone high sides it like, well, if this happens, and that happens in the you know, if it's, if it's a cool summer, then the air conditioning won't run, I'll be able to make this paint. Like when you're thinking that, like I, for clarity, do not get you I come from a perspective of if everything goes wrong, can I still handle this, and I assume everything's not gonna go wrong. But that's how I don't know. weird for me.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:14
I think I think often as you were suggesting, parents who are uninvolved in their child's lives, most of the time are facing their own mental health challenges. They might be, you know, be using substances to cope with their pain, and then consequently are uninvolved, right, because if you're always on substances, you can't really be involved.
Scott Benner 41:38
So if you're the child in that situation, what's the best outcome for you, obviously, the parent pulling it together, but let's say that can't happen, is getting away the best thing that can happen.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:48
I think, if you're the child and both have oftentimes, one parent might be more uninvolved and so the other parent if they're able to, might step in and counteract that. I think if you are experiencing as a child or teen, a parent who is unable to attend to your needs, seeking support from if you're in school, from your teachers, from your school counselors, other family members, you know, any any adult that feels like a safe a trusted adult in your life, seeking support from them, and hopefully other parent other adults in your life, if you are a child or teen listening to this, you know that that they would be under seeing how you are feeling and doing as a child or teen and speaking into your life and encouraging you.
Scott Benner 42:40
Alright, do we have time for the last one? I'm sorry, I know I kept you. Yes, yes. Authoritative. This parenting style. The parents are nurturing responsive and supportive, just like the Beavers are the cleavers, the cleaver beavers, yet set firm limits for their children, they attempt to control children's behavior by explaining rules, discussing and reasoning. They listen to a child's viewpoint, but don't always accept it. Okay. All right. Sounds like, like, like somebody wrote that out, like how it'd be now. So is that a thing that she actually saw? And people she's like, Oh, some people do this well, or is this her interpretation of what good is?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:17
I think she created this parenting style as a result of observing the preschool aged children. So these children had had positive self esteem, they were able to socialize well, they performed well, academically, socially, in the school environment. And obviously, when we talk about the authoritative that's, you know, as we said, there isn't like one right way. But this would be the best way if you were wanting to grow in an area to lean into the authoritative style. We can it is impossible to be live in this space all of the time, because we are human. And but I think the the basis is kind of like the permissive style, there's really a strong emphasis on having that warm, nurturing, attending parent, too. You know, when the child gets home from school take it isn't you know, taking a minute to get down at their level and asking them how their day was and validating their emotions and then when they are acting out being consistent explaining why are they having a timeout? Or why are they being told to read say that sentence in a different tone? At the same time, where maybe it might feel like the uninvolved or permissive parent like giving them independence too. But giving those kind of rails or boundaries of Kate you're going to be I want you to grow and become independent and make mistakes. But when I see you going one way or the other, I don't want you to hurt yourself or others.
Scott Benner 44:56
Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's a lot little like, it's a little perfection with a boat. The description, I guess. Yeah. But I mean, it does it makes sense to me. I mean, it makes sense to have a firm hand when it's needed. It makes sense to be, you know, to step back when stepping back is the thing, I think the hardest thing to do is to recognize that those things are necessary, and probably recognize that you're not doing them when you're not doing them. Because I set you everyone thinks this is them. Do you know what I'm saying? I bet you if you laid these four out and said, Hey, which one of these are you? People be like, Oh, I'm authoritative I am, I'm a good mix, then you go ask their kid, their kid would be badly the kid might be wrong. But the problem with parenting, if I may, is, you don't get to know for like 25 years. When you find out, it's too late to fix it. How do you recognize in yourself? What's happening in time to do something about it?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:04
That's gotta be hard. That's such a good question.
Scott Benner 46:07
I don't know without my wife, if I would have figured it out,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:10
obviously. So having the awareness and also educating yourself, right? Like, even as you're listening to this, if you've never heard these, you might not have never heard these terms, which is okay. And you might say, oh, yeah, I do find myself saying this or doing that. And then recognizing, oh, you know, what I'm seeing that my kid is always yelling back at me, or I'm noticing that my child, it feels like they're lying a lot, or I'm noticing that they're becoming really kind of egocentric and think that the world revolves around them. Or so. Oftentimes, you know, I children do reflect our parenting styles. And so being not only aware of how we're delivering our tone, our mood, but what are what is the feedback our children are giving us. And then understanding that there is always an opportunity to grow. I know, we are not stuck in how we parent even though we might it might feel like it at times,
Scott Benner 47:11
I don't know if people will find this helpful or, or maddening. But I just always assume I'm doing it wrong. And leave myself open to flexibility. I don't know, I always assumed that there's a better way to be doing what I'm doing. And I just don't know what it is. I mean, I don't just mean with parenting, I know I make this podcast, and every day I think, oh my god, I reaches this many people, I bet you would reach more if I knew what the hell I was doing. But I don't like there's something in this space. Like, I don't know if I've ever said this to you before. But one of my favorite mental exercises, is that thing to the end of an idea, like to the end of my understanding, and then to spend time wondering what's beyond it, even though that's kind of a black place in my mind that I can't pull thoughts from, but I try to think like what other people know, beyond what I know. And I don't know, like, it's it really is just a thought exercise, but I've done it my whole life. And it's, I find it valuable because every once in a and you should do it in the shower. Because warm water on your head makes you smarter. I think that's I think that's true, by the way.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:17
Well, a lot of good thinking happens in the shower for a lot of people, I think, you know, even I was just thinking through, you know, these different styles. And, and I think we I don't know, if he said at the beginning of this episode, or in our intro episode that, you know, our hope is that as we understand our parenting styles, to take a step back and say, Gosh, I want to improve in this way so that I can improve my relationship with my child so that we can communicate, understand one another and improve the diabetes management piece. And even as we're going through these different parenting styles, I'm thinking about how you might be parenting your child's diabetes. And there might be moments where you're, you know, exercising each one of these styles right to validate, validate the frustration and the emotion of having to change your sight and having to Pre-Bolus every single time. And that and then but then also holding those consequences of like, but we need to do it. There might be times when it has to be authoritarian, right. There might be times when you want to give a little bit more permission and leniency for your child to to grow and, and to have a mistake, right? So yes, the best. Yes, sorry. Go ahead. No,
Scott Benner 49:32
I want to just add that I think being hopeful is also good. Meaning that you know, we hear people say it all the time, like you know there's crime in the world or all this drug addiction or this these problems. They all start out as babies. They're all nobodies on this path until someone puts them on this path. So if you're not actively putting them on that path, you should tell the anxiety in your head to calm down because things are probably going to be okay. cuz I do think a lot of I mean, how do they put it right? Like, how do you ruin food, sometimes it's by being too attentive to it, you know, like turning too many knobs ruins things like think of all of you trying to set up your algorithms, probably, you should have left it alone, I will, I will absolutely tell you that my daughter and her friends were over saying goodbye to each other before college started back up last week. And one of them was talking about a problem they were having. And I said, Sandra, let me give you the best advice I have as an adult. And she goes, Okay, I said, often, the best thing to do is nothing. Now I'm not saying be, you know, it completely, you know, what was that one called? But, but I'm saying that sometimes, you don't need to turn every little knob and make every little adjustment, like sometimes just letting things play out is is valuable. If they're not getting hit by a car, or, you know, drowning in a pool, or, you know, the big stuff, everyone's gonna go in a slightly different direction, none of your kids are gonna end up the way you mean for them to. So you might as well let go of that illusion to begin with. And just, you know, let them find their way but guide them I. I mean, I would think that when my kids grow up, and they have, and they are adults, and they have some real like, time on this planet, and some experience, I think they're gonna look back and see that I was standing behind them. There were wires from the little Marionette thing to them. But I was trying really hard not to use them. And I, you know, when every once in a while you trick them into doing something that's right for them. Nothing wrong with that either, by the way.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:39
I love that illustration or that image? That's good. Like, I'm
Scott Benner 51:44
there, but I'm not doing it. But if they fall, I go, oops. And not all the time. Sometimes, oh, this fall is not going to hurt him let that go. It's hard. Like it's it's difficult because everything that goes, quote unquote, wrong in your eyes, you think is the end? I mean, if you're a halfway loving parent, everything that goes wrong for your kids, there's a little voice inside of you that goes, This is it. They're done. I screwed it up, you know, like, but that's just not the case. Most of the time everybody is going to be look at Tarzan, they left him in the jungle. And he came back fine.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:20
Yes, well, and I think there's that balance, right of learning, having the awareness, being kind to yourself as a parent, like we're doing, we're all doing the best we can. And that just even thinking about that feedback from your child, or your teen and even applying it to the numbers. You know, a lot of parents use that as those numbers as the as the the agency, your time and range as evidence of how they're parenting. Right? Like, am I being a really good parent, I'm a bad parent. And to be offered, you know that grace and compassion towards yourself that you are, you are doing the best you can and not using that as like, oh, I should be more this way. That way. Anyway, go ahead.
Scott Benner 53:05
I can just I'm thinking of a specific situation. I'll let you go. I got to see this child raised in my life, like from the outside. And the kid was, I don't know. It was he was he was difficult from the beginning. I don't know if it's ADHD like I can't tell you what it wasn't. I don't know. Is he the brightest person I've ever met? No, but real soulful, really like humanity. Like humane wise, a really smart, loving, caring person drifted towards like, drugs, and not hard drugs, like more like, you know, weed and that kind of realm. Like there, I'm gonna guess wheat and mushrooms is probably his jam. And I watched the parents fight it, fight it and fight it and fight it and fight it. They were in a fight, they were never going to win. And then one day, they just realized, I've got the kid with holes in his jeans and flip flops, who's gonna have weed on him all the time, and they're happy and he's happy, and everybody's still alive. And you know, like, and he's gonna be okay. His whole life, like that kind of stuff. He's not what they imagined. But he is himself. And I think there's something to that. I mean, I think there's a difference between trying to stop a kid from drowning in a pool and trying to make a person something they're not. Yes. Anyway, those are my interpretations.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:29
And that, in that mindset, I was trying to apply into a specific parenting style, but I think that's, it's all of that feels that it feels like a little bit of all of them, but that also feels very authoritative, right, like you're, you're loving the child as they are that you're creating. You've created boundaries and safety nets, but also loving and validating the child for their feelings in their desires.
Scott Benner 54:53
Someone from the outside would definitely look at them and think, wow, they screwed that kid up. And I'm gonna I tell you, I think they they did and probably the biggest failure of his life. So it's, he's not what I imagined they hoped for. If I gotta be honest with you, if I had a son, he wouldn't be he wouldn't be what I would hope for. But he is lovely and terrific person to be around and he's himself. So I don't know. That's how it strikes me. Okay, can we real quickly? I'm just gonna tell people what we're going to do here. We're not 100% sure how many episodes this is going to be. But I do think we know for certain the next few are going to be building positive communication, self care, personal growth for parents, creating boundaries and expectations, avoiding unintended consequences, co parenting, and unified fronts, and then recognizing patterns and breaking cycles. Is that about where we're sure too? Were you comfortable with the next one saying it now too?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:54
I think that we I think we'll pause there. I think that feels good. Okay. Yes,
Scott Benner 55:57
perfect. Well, again, I really appreciate you doing this stuff with me. I love it when you come on. I feel like by the time we're done, I'm somehow hopeful and not hopeful all at the same time, which I think means I'm being realistic. And I think that's good. Thank you. Yeah, good afternoon, by.
A huge thanks to Erica for coming back again today and helping me build out this parenting series, Erica forsyth.com. She can see you in person in California, and virtually in a number of different states. Check out our website to find out more Erica forsyth.com. Eric has had type one diabetes herself for over 30 years. And I would like to thank us med for sponsoring this episode of the podcast us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us men.
If you were a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes. The bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bold beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. This series is made up of 24 episodes, and it begins at episode 698. In your podcast, or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this to listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bowl beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bowl beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies in Episode 715 We talked about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 735 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bowl beginning series. We talk about community 772 journaling 776 technology and medical supplies. Episode 780 Treating low blood glucose episode 784 dealing with it surance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management, check it out, it will change your life. Hey everybody. BetterHelp is a sponsor of the podcast and they're offering my listeners 10% off their first month of therapy, it's a great deal. I hope you can check it out better help.com forward slash juicebox. Now better help is the world's largest therapy service that is 100%. Online. They have over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists, they can help you with a wide range of issues. All you have to do to get started just hit my link, answer a few questions about your needs and preferences and therapy. And that way BetterHelp will be able to match you with the right therapist from their network. Better help.com forward slash juicebox you're gonna get the same professionalism and quality as you'd expect from in office therapy. And if for any reason your therapist isn't right for you, you can switch to a new one at no additional charge. Do therapy on your terms, text chat, phone video call and you can even message your therapist at any time and then schedule a live session when it's more convenient. So if you're looking for someone to talk to check out better help
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