Scott Benner 11/2/23 Scott Benner 11/2/23

#1054 Parenting: Understanding Parenting Styles

Scott and Erika talk about understanding parenting styles - the pros and cons of authoritarian, permissive, uninvolved, authoritative and the impact they have.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1054 of the Juicebox Podcast

welcome back to my parenting series with Erica Forsythe. Today's episode is understanding parenting styles. There are a number of different parenting styles, not just ones to choose from you actually fall into one you may not even know it, you may fall into more than one. Today we're going to find out about those styles and the impacts that they have. Kind of look at the pros and cons of each. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Erica Forsythe is available to you at Erica forsythe.com Be sure to check her out. She's fantastic. Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, go find your community. People are out there they're looking to help you. And they may just need your help to Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook, make a friend or don't lurk around. I don't care use it however you want. Speaking of using things however you want, go check out the diabetes Pro Tip series. It's at diabetes pro tip.com juicebox podcast.com. We're running right now between Episode 1001 1026 In your audio player. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from and you can to us med.com/juice box go there now get your free benefits check and get started. If you don't want to use the internet, that's fine. Pick up the phone 888-721-1514. That number is especially for Juicebox Podcast listeners, give it a call, get going. The podcast is sponsored today by better help. Better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues. Better help.com forward slash juicebox to get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy that way better help can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. Erica, how are you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:37
I'm doing well. Thanks. Good to see you. Today.

Scott Benner 2:41
Are you excited? We're going to start our first series together.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:45
I'm very excited. This is this is a special occasion. Yes,

Scott Benner 2:48
absolutely. It's like a holiday without gifts. So I came to America a little while ago. It's been a couple of months now I guess. And I said I'd love to do. I mean my first thing out of my mouth was I'd love to do a series about what you see with your job about parenting like styles good, bad, what works with us and where problems come from like all this stuff. And from that little bit of an idea, we build out a series. So this is the first episode. I don't even know that I know what we're going to call it yet. So I won't be able to say right now. But in today's episode, Erica and I are going to talk about understanding parenting styles. And by that I mean she's going to talk and I'm going to ask some silly questions. And that'll probably be it. So let me list them here because Eric has given them to me as an already I'm confused because two of them sound the same. Authoritarian, permissive, uninvolved and authoritative. And that's the order. We're going to do them in today.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:50
Yes, okay. Yes.

Scott Benner 3:52
So let's dig right in.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:54
Okay, let's dig right in. And I think just to preface that as you listen to our discussion on these styles to just be mindful of your your self talk. And if you find yourself, you know, going into, you know, a shame spiral or just really getting hard on yourself, as you listen to these different styles. Just want to remind you that we are, you know, neither Scott nor I are perfect parents, there's no such thing as perfect parenting. And we're just really hopeful in as we go through some of these styles and parenting strategies that it will be it'll be helpful and not hurtful. And just to be kind to yourself as we go through these these different styles.

Scott Benner 4:36
Yeah, I will, like just come out and say my whole idea behind this, is that tardy hard enough to be a parent, and then your child's diagnosed with, you know, an incurable disease or you have one and you still have to be apparent to somebody. You know, these things are easy. They easily can get away from you, and become backburner stuff that you just think good is good. Enough, you don't, you know, you don't step back and see yourself anymore and a lot of spiraling can happen. And if you're not paying attention to those things, and communication breaks down and relationships fall apart, it's pretty likely that you'll stop taking care of your health along that way too. So that's why I thought it was important. But anyway, authority Parian. Is that right? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:23
Yes. So, and one more quick intro that Dr. Diana baumrind. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Introduced, she noticed, she's a psychologist in the 1960s, studying at Cal Berkeley, she noticed that there were these styles of behaviors and personalities and preschoolers. And through her research, she noticed that there were reflective of certain parenting styles. And then in the 1980s, Dr. McCabe, McCabe and Martin introduced, expanded the model. So that's where these terms came from those psychologists, so starting off with authoritarian is that that's we're starting off

Scott Benner 6:06
with correct Absolutely, while I'm googling it, so I can keep Okay. Okay.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:09
So, authoritarian parents, just to give an example, they might be overheard saying, Because I said so. And I you say that emphasis they are really believe in rules, they often will feel like it's, you know, it's either your way their highway type of parenting, and you, if you see your child exhibiting a certain behavior, you will follow through with certain punishment or discipline, and often emphasize that you know, you've made the rules, you're going to enforce the consequences, and you aren't really engaging the child in learning or correcting the behavior, but rather just focusing on hey, I'm the parent, I'm in charge, you said it in that you said, this particular thing in that tone, or you did this behavior, and now you're going to be punished. The children might be responding in a way that they might become more hostile or aggressive. If you're if you're leaning into an authoritarian type of parenting.

Scott Benner 7:19
Do some children, not like not want to be told what to do? But some like it, though, right? Not to say it's a great style or not, but some people want to be told what to do. Also, you find that,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:33
absolutely. So I think as we go through all these styles, yes, there are, you might hear something that we say, and you might remember yourself saying something, I'm sure I've said this as a parent, at some point, there isn't there's a time and place for maybe different aspects of these different styles. And creating really firm boundaries and expectations is healthy. And if you are authoritarian type of parent, you are going to really uphold that. And those that's a positive I think, where it can become confusing and create maybe some more problem, problematic behavior for the child later on, is the delivery and then not really spending a whole lot of time in that that warm nurturing space in the relationship with the child. So you are you are you are the parent, you have the rules, you're enforcing them. But there's no there's not a lot of time spent in the relationship building the trust building, that type of thing.

Scott Benner 8:32
Do people seem to have trouble? Being flexible or moving between these four styles? Like do I guess? Is it once an authoritarian, always authoritarian kind of a feeling?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:45
That's a great question. I think maybe naturally, you might lean into one type of style. And you also might be a response to how you were parented. As a child, you might do exactly the way you were, you might want to replicate that you might want to do the opposite. And so I would say stereotypically, as parents, we might kind of repeatedly and automatically lean into a certain style, but given the nature of our stress are exhausting our own physical and mental health, we might find ourselves popping in and out of different types of styles. But generally, I would say we might, you might lean into one more than the other. And these are sort of natural, you can't be it's not permanent, you can always change

Scott Benner 9:28
yes or no you could I mean, whether you will or not, I don't know but so my expectation is that the doctor you brought up earlier, she recognized these four buckets that people seem to fit into. And I as your I don't want to say what I'm gonna say yet look, I'm sorry. I'm gonna hold my thought till the end there, okay, that's what I'm gonna do. Okay, okay, so these, this could be more obedience discipline is this. Like, where? Like, how about yelling and like, is that all fit into This model,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:01
I would say yelling, if you, if you do practice more of a physical type of punishment, I would suggest that you probably heard authoritarian type of parent, you often maybe without intending to, you're you're wanting the kids to really feel sorry for the, for the mistakes or what they did. And really, you want them to really recognize that, again, it's not necessarily all bad all the time, we want our children to be able to understand that we maybe did or said something that was incorrect or, or cruel. But again, it's the delivery and the connection and the relationship that you have with the child is how you are parenting your child, whether it's authoritative or different style.

Scott Benner 10:45
Is there any situation or scenario you can think of where this is a positive? Or is this mostly a negative way of parenting people?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:55
I think there are certain, like thinking about like safety. Right? Where, you know, don't you do not run after the ball across the street without looking both ways? Or, you know, various you do not swim in the pool without an adult present, again, that I think those those are really strict because I said so well, you know, why? Why can I go swimming without a parent President? Well, because I said, so. And that's the rule. So I think, is that is that? Are you being authoritarian that moment?

Scott Benner 11:24
Because if you leave it up to them, their little soft minds might think their way out of it and go, Oh, you know, she said, we can't swim without somebody here. But Bill is here, he's nine, and we're all six. He's got us, like, you know, like, they could think their way through it and try to come up here. So it's, you want to leave them with a feeling like if I get in this pool, someone's coming at me? Like, I don't know, if it'll be, you know, I'm stuck in my room. I mean, some people might slap some, but I don't know, like, you know, what I mean, like screaming and yelling, like, you know, any anywhere in between, I guess, in that in that kind of, you know, from violence to just, you know, locked down, I guess. But if it works, and nobody drowns, that you kind of feel like, alright, well, it did work. And I think then that builds on your that can build on your problem, because here's a great example, the swimming thing, where we have firm rules, you have to follow them, there's no way around it. Great. But then as the parent, I guess, you see that work, and then all of a sudden, it's vacuum the room because I said, so like, because it's easier, and you're tired? Probably, you know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:29
that's right. And and ultimately, it's, you know, you want to protect your child and out of fear and concern, you really want your child to obey that rule. I think where maybe the difference? Like, yes, are you being authoritarian in saying no swimming without an adult present? Because I said, so. But then if when your child disobeyed that rule, maybe where we would see a difference in parenting style is, is the consequences and like, yes, is your child going to have a consequence for disobeying? And then are you going to explain it, you know, you're gonna sit down and say, I love you, and I want you to be safe. And I know it's still so if you're about spending time validating why the child feels frustrated, or is just because I said, So in your room for an hour done. So you could have

Scott Benner 13:13
authoritarian expectations and lay the rules down in that in that vein, but if it goes wrong, you could respond not in an authoritarian way. Yes, I think that's probably the balance that you're trying to strike there. Right? That makes sense to me. Okay, so what are some of the negatives if you lean too hard into this? And I mean, is it child to child, like, meaning I first I want to just say, like, I'm not here telling you, I think you should hit people or anything like that. I'm not saying that. I'm just imagining some people do and try to speak kind of like broadly here. But is there a world where one of your kids is just out of their freakin mind? And like, this is the only thing they respond to? And in the moment, you know, it's not the right thing, but it's the only thing keeping them from seeing if they can jump from the patio, across the something into the pool or something like you don't I mean, like, what about the crazy kids? Like, what do you? I don't mean crazy, crazy. I mean, like, what about the ones that are like, a lot of energy and hard to handle, and you're pretty sure they're gonna end up under a car.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:16
I think you might even find as you give in this example, I'm thinking about parents and myself included who we might have different styles for different children, right, because of their personality, because of our energy level of when we, you know, did you have one child? And then five years later, you had your second year little bit older, you're tired, or did they present differently? And so, yes, I think there are certain aspects of each style that might fit more appropriately with your particular child and how they present. Ultimately, you always want to focus on building that relationship with the child. And that's so I think, yes, there might be certain examples, in which case, the authoritarian command and consequence may be appropriate. But not I would say not consistently.

Scott Benner 15:10
Erica, I find almost every one of our conversations frustrating, it's not because of you. It's got nothing to do with you. It's just about how the human mind works. Because I can't even envision a situation where you've got one kid who responds well to one style, and one kid that responds well to the other style. But one of the styles is you're locked in your room all the time, or you've taken one upside the head once or twice. And you look over at the other one you like, you just ask her what to do. And she just does it and everything's like, you're so great, but like, and how do you turn to the first kid and say, we have all that works for them? And you can't do that either. There's no winning if anyone's listening. What I'm trying to tell you is do not have children. That's my dad's. There's no winning this game. Erica doesn't believe that's true. I believe it's true. I don't think you can. I don't think you can win. I think you're mitigating that. I think you're always mitigating. You don't I mean, and it's okay, so, yes. I'm sorry, made Erica laugh, and she lost her train of thought. But tell me what, what are some of the real negatives of this? If you have a kid who doesn't respond well to this style, and you're using it on them? What could come of that? Everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM, like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514 or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arlen does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the show.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:56
I think part and most of this has been research based that children who are exposed to authoritarian parents, most of the time, they might grow up to feel like their their opinions, their feelings aren't necessarily considered or matter. They might present with either lower self esteem, sometimes they might become more hostile or aggressive in their play as younger kids and then as they get older, you know, in different types of behaviors they might become, they might just be really angry at you at themselves, because they never really understand like, why are they Why am I always told to do this thing, but I don't really understand it. So when I'm not when the child is not being able to have an opportunity to express how they feel or ask questions or learn. Then the kind of the automatic responses, I'm just gonna be angry. At my parents, I'm gonna be angry at myself, like probably swimming in a lot of shame. Sorry, go ahead

Scott Benner 19:01
and how does that carry into adulthood?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:03
I think that would be like as an adult, maybe not knowing how to properly identify and express how you feel. Probably having a lot of I'm not good enough type of thinking. No matter what I do, I'm not seen or valued or heard. Feeling a deal. That's like the lower self esteem type of talk.

Scott Benner 19:28
I can also see a feedback loop here. That's probably not great. Because if you're the parent, and you somehow either decide or you grew up this way, and you go with it, by the way saying that someone went with this parenting style, I think is ridiculous. I don't think anyone sits down and goes, I wonder how I'm gonna parent this kid. I think it just whatever comes out of your mouth was what comes out of your mouth, right? But if you decide authoritarians, the way to go, and the kid pushes back, then every time the kid pushes back, it reinforces your idea that they need this kind of thing. left down, right? Because look how they're hard. They're difficult like Bob like, But meanwhile, you could go with a different thing where they might just be like, oh, cool, alright. And you'll never know, because you won't think to try that one. Oh, okay.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:12
That's, that is really a great observation, because then you owe that. And then in your narrative, you might start to say, and, and you'll talk to your friends or your partner. Gosh, you know, Johnny's so stubborn. He's He's so strong willed. And we really need to, like crack down on on his tone and his behavior. And, yeah, and then itself kind of perpetuates itself.

Scott Benner 20:39
Okay, is there more to say about this? Or can we move on to the next,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:42
you know, I was just, I was trying to find I was gonna give some a data point, but I wanted to be able to reference it, that 20 In the US, it says roughly 26%, use the authority terrian parenting style, but I want to make sure as I go through the I will try and find

Scott Benner 21:01
what you think about is that you think you've seen about 26%.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:06
That's what this article says. And I want to make sure I can find where they got that. So I'll continue to look for that as well.

Scott Benner 21:12
While you're doing that, I'll move on. The next one is permissive parenting. I'm just gonna go from the internet is the type of parenting style characterized by low demands with high responsiveness. I already don't understand that sentence. Permissive parents tend to be very loving, yet provide few guidelines and rules. These parents do not expect mature behavior from their children, and often seem more like a friend than a parental figure that seemed more accurate to

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:38
Yes, yes. So you might have rules as a permissive parent, but you're not going to always consistently enforce them or follow them. You may give out some consequences, but not consistently. And you kind of you live in kind of this mindset of like, I really want my child to figure things out by themselves. And that, right, like even just saying that that's not all bad, no, right, right, to let yourself to let your child learn and, you know, make mistakes. There is an element that we of course, we want our child or you know, our children to learn and make mistakes. Are we allowing them to act in a way or make mistakes that are really problematic and hurtful to themselves and others? And do we kind of allow that a lot of people might say permissive parenting is like indulgent parenting, okay, like letting them kind of run rule the roost?

Scott Benner 22:36
Do you think it comes? Like our thoughts about these things? Do you think it comes from when you're an adult, you think back to someone who you knew who was treated that way, and they didn't turn out? Well, sort of, like, if I'm being honest, there's like three female names from when I was growing up, I would have never named a daughter, because I knew three girls with this name. And they skeeve me out for one reason or another, like so like, you just couldn't wrap your mind around calling your kid that. And I wonder if you don't look up and say, Well, I'm going to be this way. Because the person who sticks out my mind has been a real, it was definitely raised like this. And so I'm going to try to stay away from that without giving any, any weight to all the other variables that would help make that decision. I wonder if that's why we kind of besides how we were treated, because if you were treated permissively I would think just like with the with the last one, you're either going to come out of it one way or the other, either, you're going to be like some low energy, like Stoner, right? Like literally like, Hey, man, everything's fine. Or you're gonna think I am lucky to be alive. Because my parents didn't help me at all. And I'm going to do that thing for them. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:46
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Either, like an having a more grateful experience, or never really learned boundaries, consequences. And so you're continuing to maybe test those boundaries. Yeah. I think, as a child, or excuse me, as a parent, you might have the mindset of like, well, you know, kids will be kids. And again, I know my tone that was kind of more of a critical tone, but sometimes kids will be kids. And that's okay. And so I think it's this, striking this balance between giving them permission to make some choices grow, learn. But then when they're when they do come up against that the boundary of the rule that you've set, where you are more of a permissive parent is not following through, like not always giving the timeout or not. And again, there's it's really hard to be consistent. So

Scott Benner 24:44
as I think about this, each one of these styles comes with its own positive and negative possible outcomes. And they all kind of follow the same thing. Like if you're very permissive with somebody, they might end up just, you know, in your dwell and they also I don't know might not but I will say this, with the exception of like, being a douchebag. I don't see how you'd go real bad being permissive with somebody like if you were, you know what I mean, unless they turned him into a, I don't know a loan sharking, drug dealer or something like that. But like, didn't you mean like in a regular scenario, I think you would get kind of a mellow person out of a permissive, they might not be go getters, they might not be, you know, a captain of industry or something like that. But I think on a human level, I don't think you could go. I don't think this one sounds really damaging to me. And by the way, the first one, the authoritarian one, for the right person, you might create a real like, you know, like somebody who goes out there and gets at it and doesn't screw around and gets things done. And I don't know maybe needs to be whipped on a Friday afternoon in a dungeon. But other than that, they're pretty reasonable. I like that you're just nodding through that you're like so used to being like, you just gotta let it out somewhere, Scott, like with a dominatrix. I hear what you're saying. And like, but you don't mean like, again? Alright, let me ask you this. We've gone through two of these. Have we hit the style you use?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:19
I'm certainly would, if I were totally honest, I there have been certain moments where I've been authoritarian. There have been moments where I've been permissive, there probably been moments or neglectful, I'd like to say I'd lean in the authoritative but I can I can read and research and talk about all of these styles into Oh, yeah, I was. I was certainly that style last night. Yeah. And I think that's, that's a normal, natural thing. For all of us.

Scott Benner 26:44
I'll give away to a minute. But yeah, Arden reminded me the other day, she's like, do you remember like 15 years ago when you were really sick? And cold did something and he took his cell phone and threw it across the room? And I went, Yeah, I remember that. She goes, that took us by surprise. And I said, I regret that if I'm being honest. And I have no, like, I couldn't give you any context where I was incredibly ill. And I don't know what happened. Like something I honestly don't know any of the details. It ended with me. Trying, I don't even know, I think I was trying to do something shocking to stop whatever was happening from happening. But if I could look back from a high level, they were probably just being kids. And I was, I don't know, I didn't feel good. And I just did something stupid. I've said this on the podcast before. So I started out as a very like, like a loving parent. Like I'm I come from a river. I think that's pretty obvious if we're talking but in a in a, in a situation that I thought the kids were in trouble, I would yell. And that totally came from like, the way I grew up. Because I was constantly somebody was constantly yelling at me. And my wife, like pulled me aside and she's like, You can't yell at the kids. And I was like, but they seem to react well, like, like, we're getting what we want. And she's like, No, no, no. And so that took awhile. I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you. She said it to me. And like, on the next Saturday, I was like, I don't yell anymore. But I really don't yell anymore. Like, and I haven't for, I think it's pretty fair to say like, a decade, maybe. But I did, like I used to. And I've, you know, been smacked as a kid. And I wouldn't say more than maybe a handful of times, but I've smacked my kids, like, you know, not with an intention of taking them off their feet or something like that. But, like kind of shocking them into reality. I've done that a couple of times. The permissive part. Geez, jeez. Yes. In spots. In spots. This is the thing I wasn't gonna say to the end. But I think I'm all four of these is what I was gonna say. I think that there's something incredibly wrong with each one of these. And nothing wrong with each one of these, depending on where you use them. Yeah, permissiveness. Arden came home from college recently. I mean, she's 19. But she said she was going out with friends. And then they were meeting up with more people. And like she never came home. Like she did not come home until like nine o'clock in the morning. Now, in fairness, I can track her phone. So. So I knew they were kind of they were parked at a park, like in the parking lot. And they were taught like I knew who she was with. They were probably just sitting there talking the whole time. You know, we're being stupid. I don't know what they were doing. I did not bother her overnight. I didn't send her a text. I didn't say Hey, you gotta get home. I just use the if she was a college, I wouldn't know where she was. I don't see how this is any different. When Kelly woke up, she's like, Arden didn't come home. Kelly was worried. I said, I'll send her a text. I texted her. I said, Hey, are you okay? And she's like, Yeah, I'm sorry. I'll be home soon. And I was like, Hey, you just you didn't contact us to let us know. And she said, you know, just say the word and I won't do this again. I said, No, no, I'm like It's fine. Just, it would have been cool to wake up this morning to attacks it says, Hey, I'm alright. And not me looking down the hallway thinking, Hey, she hasn't been here since the last time I looked down that hall. And she understood and that was it. That's to me. That's pretty permissive. I and my mom would have thrown me out a window. If I did that. I'm pretty sure. So like, I think literally.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:22
Well, perhaps, but what you've already had worked hard on establishing is that warm, nurturing, like trust relationship? Where had this been happening over and over and over again, with no response? Or a trust that she would change? Right? You you both you trust her that she would respond differently? And she trusts you? Yeah.

Scott Benner 30:44
And also the situation did not warrant craziness. I'll tell you like a week ago, she rolled out of this house like 10 o'clock at night. And I was like, what I was I was up here working. And Kelly was downstairs and I went downstairs like where's art? And she She just left? And I was like, wait, I'm like her blood sugar's low. Like we mean, she just left because yes, she said she needed food. She was low. And I said, did you look at her CGM. And she was I didn't. And I was like, Well, I'm looking. And she's 64. Like, we have a diagonal down arrow. She was going to walk like a convenience store two blocks from here, but she went by herself. I got in the car. And I drove right to that convenience store. And I parked outside. And here's what I thought. If her blood sugar holds steady, she's in the convenience store. I'm going to drive away and she'll never know I was here. And if it goes down one more time, she's gonna look up from that cooler, and I'm gonna be standing next to her. And so her blood sugar dropped again. I walked into the store, we made eye contact. She's like, What are you doing here? And I'm like, your blood. I mouthed that to her. I was like, your blood sugar's low. And she goes, I know. And I was like, okay, she just do you think I drove over here without drinking something first? And I said, No, she goes, if you tested my blood sugar, it's not 50. And I was like, okay, and then I got a Three Musketeers bar for myself and I left. Anyway, to me, that's permissive. I don't know what it is for other people. I couldn't just let somebody like be untethered completely. I don't think I'd be okay with that. So, I don't know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:17
so permissive, maybe leaning into you set these boundaries, you were there. You know, I think it also goes years of foundation of being present setting expectations, I think of if you're consistently leaning into the permissive style, I think the outcomes would say that you would, the child could be more impulsive, maybe have more difficulty with social skills or relationships. And, you know, not necessarily knowing what is appropriate picking up on all those social cues. And Arden is not presenting with those right now.

Scott Benner 32:59
But I mean, listen, I've, to me, I've seen my son get hurt on a baseball field, and I have not moved. Because I've assessed from a distance, he's not going to die. And I think this is a difficult situation he's going to need to get through on his own. I've also seen him get hit. And I ran onto the field. But it was situational again, you know, so I would, you know, I don't know, to me, it's all the whole thing. Situational, in my opinion, but anyway, permissive. What do you think are some bad outcomes we could see as an adult, if we were raised like this, and it wasn't right for us?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:35
I think the children could struggle again, academically, there might be some of that impulsivity, that I just said, I think the they might have, they might be at higher risk for health problems, not knowing, you know, having if you're in a permissive household in terms of food and sleep, you know, there's a lot of leniency then as a child, you might not understand what's what's a healthy sleep habit. What's a healthy eating habit, too, that might be more at risk for either you know, obesity or sleep issues, which then leads into the research also talks about you know, poor dental, if you're not like, really you are? Yes,

Scott Benner 34:17
we're probably come from that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:19
Yes. Because if you're like, Whoa, have your your brush your teeth when you're, you know, when you're ready,

Scott Benner 34:24
no harm, no foul, I'm brushing my teeth and there's no harm, no foul on health in general. Like, nothing bad's gonna happen to me because I didn't have to brush my teeth and I'm still okay. And oh, I see. I got it. All right. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:36
So, again, I really appreciate the way that you're able to hold you know, yes, there are moments to be maybe more in lenient and with this permissive style there is that emphasis in the the warm, nurturing, nurturing responsive parents, but the difference really is there the your there are few rules and there are few consequences for when your child does not follow the rules. Yeah,

Scott Benner 35:02
I mean, I don't look at, if you really listen to the podcast and you're paying attention, I look at diabetes, the way I look at everything. And I look at parenting the way I look at everything to like, there's common sense, there's time for common sense. There's time to be a little aggressive, there's time to lay back, there's time to be, you know, all different ways. And yet, I will tell you that I think my kids are reasonably, like, adjusted. And I don't think I'm perfect that I don't think Kelly is and I don't think they are. But I can tell you that they're not in a crap ton of trouble ever. Like, they're not people who are in trouble. I've never once thought I'm gonna have to go to a police station to get somebody. I've never once thought that someone's gonna say to me, Oh, my God, I'm sorry. I thought it was heroin. Like you don't I mean, like, like, I don't ever think something like that is going to happen, and hasn't so far. But when I've asked my kids about it, like moving forward, because I mean, like, as an example, cocaine, completely available everywhere. Like you can get it in middle school, high school, college, it's like sitting around. And when I asked my son one time, how come you've never tried that? He said, he didn't want to, it was there wasn't something he wanted to do. And so he didn't do it. So I'm comfortable that he's got his own feelings, and he's able to assert them in other places. But he also responded and said, and I think you would have drove, they're taking me out of school and killed me. And I was like, and when he said that, I thought, Oh, good. I absolutely would have done that. And I'm glad he knows. And Arlen piped up. And she said, yeah, there are things I don't do. Not because, like, I want to do them, and I don't but I have thought in my head, like seeing somebody else do something. Like if I did that my dad would probably rip my head off. And I think there's, I think it's good that they're a little scared, to be perfectly honest. I mean, like, they're not scared of me. Obviously, they're not scared of me. But I do think they think in the right situation, if they made the wrong move, I would probably lay waste to what it is, is their life. And I think that's I don't know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:00
well, and ultimately what I would hear underneath that, or what I would reflect is like they respect you as their parent.

Scott Benner 37:07
I don't think they respect me, but they're definitely scared of what's gonna happen. So is that respect?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:14
Fear Fear based? Yeah, I mean, I think that they, they want to respect and honor they're scared of the consequences. But even children and teens and young adults might choose, I'm quoting the wrong choice, even if they're scared of the consequences, because they don't really care. They don't really respect or love or or want to honor how they've been raised. So I think there is that that foundation of trust and respect,

Scott Benner 37:37
we're also very careful not to lord over them. Like we don't have them in a position where they feel like I can't be myself. Because if these two people don't like what I do, they can change my life. Guys, I never thought that was a good idea. I've seen that done to people that usually financially they hold you, they hold you hostage a little bit. Right. And you can't really be yourself because you're afraid of, of losing your meal ticket. Anyway, I'm sorry, what's the next one on involved?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:05
I'm involved. Sorry, sorry, say that. Again. I

Scott Benner 38:08
said, this one seems like a no brainer. But go ahead.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:11
So yeah, uninvolved, you might have heard it as neglectful this type of parenting style, you might present more a little bit cold, and not really responding to your child's needs, or you know, asking how their day was, there might be a sense of indifference about how your child is doing that, that corresponds to really no rules or an or no consequences. And again, you might feel like even as we're describing this, there are moments where I might feel that you didn't even like I'm being an uninvolved parent. Sometimes it's like, you're you're so exhausted, and you're, you're stressed with work, and you just got into an argument with a family member, and you have nothing left to give to your child. So that's in that moment. Yes, maybe you're you're acting as if you're an uninvolved in our political parent, that's going to happen. But again, we're talking about like this is, if you are a neglectful parent over time, and consistently, there, there are, obviously a lot of negative outcomes in your child. If that's

Scott Benner 39:19
been done consistently over time, is it likely that the parent has some sort of an emotional issue themselves? Because I'm trying to imagine I know that everybody's not me. But, man, it's hard to imagine somebody having a baby and then just being like, whatever, and treating it like a dog that lives outside. I don't, it's hard for me to wrap my head around, but that's not uncommon. Right.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:43
Right. And I think there, there could be so many factors, right? Are you dealing with your own mental health? Are you being triggered because of your own experiences as a child and maybe you are coming from a place of trauma that has not been proud assessed, and it's too painful to see your child do the things that you did. I think the financial stress, family stress, work, stress are major factors at play when you are acting in an uninvolved way, as a parent,

Scott Benner 40:18
it's a little startling to me that you could not know yourself well enough prior to having a baby to say, I probably would be really, really bad at this. So let me stay out of this. Like I respect people who know their limits and stay away from I also don't understand. When people judge what they think is gonna happen in the future, whether it's like buying a car, and you're like, I don't know if I can afford this payment, or something like that. I don't understand people who don't layer on to their thinking, the worst possible outcome, everyone high sides it like, well, if this happens, and that happens in the you know, if it's, if it's a cool summer, then the air conditioning won't run, I'll be able to make this paint. Like when you're thinking that, like I, for clarity, do not get you I come from a perspective of if everything goes wrong, can I still handle this, and I assume everything's not gonna go wrong. But that's how I don't know. weird for me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:14
I think I think often as you were suggesting, parents who are uninvolved in their child's lives, most of the time are facing their own mental health challenges. They might be, you know, be using substances to cope with their pain, and then consequently are uninvolved, right, because if you're always on substances, you can't really be involved.

Scott Benner 41:38
So if you're the child in that situation, what's the best outcome for you, obviously, the parent pulling it together, but let's say that can't happen, is getting away the best thing that can happen.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:48
I think, if you're the child and both have oftentimes, one parent might be more uninvolved and so the other parent if they're able to, might step in and counteract that. I think if you are experiencing as a child or teen, a parent who is unable to attend to your needs, seeking support from if you're in school, from your teachers, from your school counselors, other family members, you know, any any adult that feels like a safe a trusted adult in your life, seeking support from them, and hopefully other parent other adults in your life, if you are a child or teen listening to this, you know that that they would be under seeing how you are feeling and doing as a child or teen and speaking into your life and encouraging you.

Scott Benner 42:40
Alright, do we have time for the last one? I'm sorry, I know I kept you. Yes, yes. Authoritative. This parenting style. The parents are nurturing responsive and supportive, just like the Beavers are the cleavers, the cleaver beavers, yet set firm limits for their children, they attempt to control children's behavior by explaining rules, discussing and reasoning. They listen to a child's viewpoint, but don't always accept it. Okay. All right. Sounds like, like, like somebody wrote that out, like how it'd be now. So is that a thing that she actually saw? And people she's like, Oh, some people do this well, or is this her interpretation of what good is?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:17
I think she created this parenting style as a result of observing the preschool aged children. So these children had had positive self esteem, they were able to socialize well, they performed well, academically, socially, in the school environment. And obviously, when we talk about the authoritative that's, you know, as we said, there isn't like one right way. But this would be the best way if you were wanting to grow in an area to lean into the authoritative style. We can it is impossible to be live in this space all of the time, because we are human. And but I think the the basis is kind of like the permissive style, there's really a strong emphasis on having that warm, nurturing, attending parent, too. You know, when the child gets home from school take it isn't you know, taking a minute to get down at their level and asking them how their day was and validating their emotions and then when they are acting out being consistent explaining why are they having a timeout? Or why are they being told to read say that sentence in a different tone? At the same time, where maybe it might feel like the uninvolved or permissive parent like giving them independence too. But giving those kind of rails or boundaries of Kate you're going to be I want you to grow and become independent and make mistakes. But when I see you going one way or the other, I don't want you to hurt yourself or others.

Scott Benner 44:56
Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's a lot little like, it's a little perfection with a boat. The description, I guess. Yeah. But I mean, it does it makes sense to me. I mean, it makes sense to have a firm hand when it's needed. It makes sense to be, you know, to step back when stepping back is the thing, I think the hardest thing to do is to recognize that those things are necessary, and probably recognize that you're not doing them when you're not doing them. Because I set you everyone thinks this is them. Do you know what I'm saying? I bet you if you laid these four out and said, Hey, which one of these are you? People be like, Oh, I'm authoritative I am, I'm a good mix, then you go ask their kid, their kid would be badly the kid might be wrong. But the problem with parenting, if I may, is, you don't get to know for like 25 years. When you find out, it's too late to fix it. How do you recognize in yourself? What's happening in time to do something about it?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:04
That's gotta be hard. That's such a good question.

Scott Benner 46:07
I don't know without my wife, if I would have figured it out,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:10
obviously. So having the awareness and also educating yourself, right? Like, even as you're listening to this, if you've never heard these, you might not have never heard these terms, which is okay. And you might say, oh, yeah, I do find myself saying this or doing that. And then recognizing, oh, you know, what I'm seeing that my kid is always yelling back at me, or I'm noticing that my child, it feels like they're lying a lot, or I'm noticing that they're becoming really kind of egocentric and think that the world revolves around them. Or so. Oftentimes, you know, I children do reflect our parenting styles. And so being not only aware of how we're delivering our tone, our mood, but what are what is the feedback our children are giving us. And then understanding that there is always an opportunity to grow. I know, we are not stuck in how we parent even though we might it might feel like it at times,

Scott Benner 47:11
I don't know if people will find this helpful or, or maddening. But I just always assume I'm doing it wrong. And leave myself open to flexibility. I don't know, I always assumed that there's a better way to be doing what I'm doing. And I just don't know what it is. I mean, I don't just mean with parenting, I know I make this podcast, and every day I think, oh my god, I reaches this many people, I bet you would reach more if I knew what the hell I was doing. But I don't like there's something in this space. Like, I don't know if I've ever said this to you before. But one of my favorite mental exercises, is that thing to the end of an idea, like to the end of my understanding, and then to spend time wondering what's beyond it, even though that's kind of a black place in my mind that I can't pull thoughts from, but I try to think like what other people know, beyond what I know. And I don't know, like, it's it really is just a thought exercise, but I've done it my whole life. And it's, I find it valuable because every once in a and you should do it in the shower. Because warm water on your head makes you smarter. I think that's I think that's true, by the way.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:17
Well, a lot of good thinking happens in the shower for a lot of people, I think, you know, even I was just thinking through, you know, these different styles. And, and I think we I don't know, if he said at the beginning of this episode, or in our intro episode that, you know, our hope is that as we understand our parenting styles, to take a step back and say, Gosh, I want to improve in this way so that I can improve my relationship with my child so that we can communicate, understand one another and improve the diabetes management piece. And even as we're going through these different parenting styles, I'm thinking about how you might be parenting your child's diabetes. And there might be moments where you're, you know, exercising each one of these styles right to validate, validate the frustration and the emotion of having to change your sight and having to Pre-Bolus every single time. And that and then but then also holding those consequences of like, but we need to do it. There might be times when it has to be authoritarian, right. There might be times when you want to give a little bit more permission and leniency for your child to to grow and, and to have a mistake, right? So yes, the best. Yes, sorry. Go ahead. No,

Scott Benner 49:32
I want to just add that I think being hopeful is also good. Meaning that you know, we hear people say it all the time, like you know there's crime in the world or all this drug addiction or this these problems. They all start out as babies. They're all nobodies on this path until someone puts them on this path. So if you're not actively putting them on that path, you should tell the anxiety in your head to calm down because things are probably going to be okay. cuz I do think a lot of I mean, how do they put it right? Like, how do you ruin food, sometimes it's by being too attentive to it, you know, like turning too many knobs ruins things like think of all of you trying to set up your algorithms, probably, you should have left it alone, I will, I will absolutely tell you that my daughter and her friends were over saying goodbye to each other before college started back up last week. And one of them was talking about a problem they were having. And I said, Sandra, let me give you the best advice I have as an adult. And she goes, Okay, I said, often, the best thing to do is nothing. Now I'm not saying be, you know, it completely, you know, what was that one called? But, but I'm saying that sometimes, you don't need to turn every little knob and make every little adjustment, like sometimes just letting things play out is is valuable. If they're not getting hit by a car, or, you know, drowning in a pool, or, you know, the big stuff, everyone's gonna go in a slightly different direction, none of your kids are gonna end up the way you mean for them to. So you might as well let go of that illusion to begin with. And just, you know, let them find their way but guide them I. I mean, I would think that when my kids grow up, and they have, and they are adults, and they have some real like, time on this planet, and some experience, I think they're gonna look back and see that I was standing behind them. There were wires from the little Marionette thing to them. But I was trying really hard not to use them. And I, you know, when every once in a while you trick them into doing something that's right for them. Nothing wrong with that either, by the way.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:39
I love that illustration or that image? That's good. Like, I'm

Scott Benner 51:44
there, but I'm not doing it. But if they fall, I go, oops. And not all the time. Sometimes, oh, this fall is not going to hurt him let that go. It's hard. Like it's it's difficult because everything that goes, quote unquote, wrong in your eyes, you think is the end? I mean, if you're a halfway loving parent, everything that goes wrong for your kids, there's a little voice inside of you that goes, This is it. They're done. I screwed it up, you know, like, but that's just not the case. Most of the time everybody is going to be look at Tarzan, they left him in the jungle. And he came back fine.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:20
Yes, well, and I think there's that balance, right of learning, having the awareness, being kind to yourself as a parent, like we're doing, we're all doing the best we can. And that just even thinking about that feedback from your child, or your teen and even applying it to the numbers. You know, a lot of parents use that as those numbers as the as the the agency, your time and range as evidence of how they're parenting. Right? Like, am I being a really good parent, I'm a bad parent. And to be offered, you know that grace and compassion towards yourself that you are, you are doing the best you can and not using that as like, oh, I should be more this way. That way. Anyway, go ahead.

Scott Benner 53:05
I can just I'm thinking of a specific situation. I'll let you go. I got to see this child raised in my life, like from the outside. And the kid was, I don't know. It was he was he was difficult from the beginning. I don't know if it's ADHD like I can't tell you what it wasn't. I don't know. Is he the brightest person I've ever met? No, but real soulful, really like humanity. Like humane wise, a really smart, loving, caring person drifted towards like, drugs, and not hard drugs, like more like, you know, weed and that kind of realm. Like there, I'm gonna guess wheat and mushrooms is probably his jam. And I watched the parents fight it, fight it and fight it and fight it and fight it. They were in a fight, they were never going to win. And then one day, they just realized, I've got the kid with holes in his jeans and flip flops, who's gonna have weed on him all the time, and they're happy and he's happy, and everybody's still alive. And you know, like, and he's gonna be okay. His whole life, like that kind of stuff. He's not what they imagined. But he is himself. And I think there's something to that. I mean, I think there's a difference between trying to stop a kid from drowning in a pool and trying to make a person something they're not. Yes. Anyway, those are my interpretations.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:29
And that, in that mindset, I was trying to apply into a specific parenting style, but I think that's, it's all of that feels that it feels like a little bit of all of them, but that also feels very authoritative, right, like you're, you're loving the child as they are that you're creating. You've created boundaries and safety nets, but also loving and validating the child for their feelings in their desires.

Scott Benner 54:53
Someone from the outside would definitely look at them and think, wow, they screwed that kid up. And I'm gonna I tell you, I think they they did and probably the biggest failure of his life. So it's, he's not what I imagined they hoped for. If I gotta be honest with you, if I had a son, he wouldn't be he wouldn't be what I would hope for. But he is lovely and terrific person to be around and he's himself. So I don't know. That's how it strikes me. Okay, can we real quickly? I'm just gonna tell people what we're going to do here. We're not 100% sure how many episodes this is going to be. But I do think we know for certain the next few are going to be building positive communication, self care, personal growth for parents, creating boundaries and expectations, avoiding unintended consequences, co parenting, and unified fronts, and then recognizing patterns and breaking cycles. Is that about where we're sure too? Were you comfortable with the next one saying it now too?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:54
I think that we I think we'll pause there. I think that feels good. Okay. Yes,

Scott Benner 55:57
perfect. Well, again, I really appreciate you doing this stuff with me. I love it when you come on. I feel like by the time we're done, I'm somehow hopeful and not hopeful all at the same time, which I think means I'm being realistic. And I think that's good. Thank you. Yeah, good afternoon, by.

A huge thanks to Erica for coming back again today and helping me build out this parenting series, Erica forsyth.com. She can see you in person in California, and virtually in a number of different states. Check out our website to find out more Erica forsyth.com. Eric has had type one diabetes herself for over 30 years. And I would like to thank us med for sponsoring this episode of the podcast us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us men.

If you were a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes. The bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bold beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. This series is made up of 24 episodes, and it begins at episode 698. In your podcast, or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this to listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bowl beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bowl beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies in Episode 715 We talked about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 735 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bowl beginning series. We talk about community 772 journaling 776 technology and medical supplies. Episode 780 Treating low blood glucose episode 784 dealing with it surance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management, check it out, it will change your life. Hey everybody. BetterHelp is a sponsor of the podcast and they're offering my listeners 10% off their first month of therapy, it's a great deal. I hope you can check it out better help.com forward slash juicebox. Now better help is the world's largest therapy service that is 100%. Online. They have over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists, they can help you with a wide range of issues. All you have to do to get started just hit my link, answer a few questions about your needs and preferences and therapy. And that way BetterHelp will be able to match you with the right therapist from their network. Better help.com forward slash juicebox you're gonna get the same professionalism and quality as you'd expect from in office therapy. And if for any reason your therapist isn't right for you, you can switch to a new one at no additional charge. Do therapy on your terms, text chat, phone video call and you can even message your therapist at any time and then schedule a live session when it's more convenient. So if you're looking for someone to talk to check out better help

#1053 Some People Call Me Maurice

Justin has type 1 diabetes and is a Paramedic.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1053 of the Juicebox Podcast.

day I'll be speaking with a paramedic named Justin who has had type one diabetes for 30 years since he was 10 years old. Justin is very much into physical fitness his family and letting people know that diabetes doesn't have to limit them. Today we're going to talk about Justin, his diabetes growing up with it, his job, and so much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 40% at cosy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout, you can get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with your first order of ag one at drink, ag one.com/juice box. And if you're looking for glucagon, the one in fact that my daughter carries check out g voc glucagon.com/juice box. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, you must check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. It's a private group with 43,000 members. There is a conversation happening right now that you would absolutely be interested in or be able to help with this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom dexcom.com/juicebox. Head over now find out more about the Dexcom G seven or the GS six and you can get started with the CGM that my daughter wears Dexcom

Unknown Speaker 1:57
oh my god, can you believe it?

Scott Benner 2:06
Doe a D deer a female deer. The podcast is also sponsored by us med us med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies and you can to better service and better care is what you'll get from us med us med.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com.

Justin 2:37
My name is Justin. I live in the Pacific Northwest Washington State. Have two young girls Addison and Leila Addison is five Leila is three. Married My wife's name is Lindsay and currently we both are in healthcare. I work as a first responder at a local fire fire department. And then my wife is a physician's assistant. Been a type one diabetic since the age of 10 years old, so 31 years now. Wow. And that is why I am here chatting with you.

Scott Benner 3:13
Oh, that's excellent. Oh, wow. You have diabetes for 31 years. Correct. Okay, happenstance, completely the person I interviewed yesterday was from the middle of Washington State. How weird is that? It is actually kind of strange. Because first of all, not everybody says where they're from. And now it's two days in a row and they're like I'm from Washington. I'm like, Cool. Well, you were diagnosed a long time ago you were diagnosed in a time of did you make regular and mph or were using cloudy or animal insulin? What were you doing?

Justin 3:45
Yeah, I use combination. So I remember in the mornings taking two injections one with the short acting one with the long long acting the NPH and and then everything in between when I ate and then at nighttime again. long acting NPH and the short acting if I got I was the type of person who always had a glass of milk before bed I don't know why so I'd always take a little bit then so I felt like I was taking like 10 or 12 injections a day or as frequently as I was eating but yeah

Scott Benner 4:22
was the building we did technology was the milk warm Justin was to help you drifted a dream boy

Justin 4:27
no something might my father had milk with like every meal and I think that I just like I thought it was the normal thing like milk with breakfast milk with for a snack milk with lunch milk with dinner and then for some reason I got into this like milk before bed milk was like water in my family and I learned that from my dad and I think it's just like I thought it was cool when I was little and then it just

Scott Benner 4:51
but you were done. Were you recovering it with insulin or no?

Justin 4:54
Yeah, typically I was. So in that was all dependent on what my blood sugar was. Right. So I would say nine times out of 10. Unless I was going to bed, you know, mildly hyperglycaemic or something. Yeah, I would I would cover it with a little short acting.

Scott Benner 5:09
Okay. If you hit that, that line, so what is this? Like? 1990? Was 191. Right? So yeah, you're just on the other like meters were just becoming more like things people had in their homes in the late 80s. Like, right around there. So you had you had a glucose meter like that? I did. Okay. Was it accurate? Do you think? There's no way to know, I guess, right. Yeah, I

Justin 5:33
don't think I would have known any different. Yeah, you know, it, especially at the age of nine or 10. You know, for me, I was just told, here's what you have. And here's what you have to do. And, you know, I don't think that I would have known whether it was or wasn't. And you know, as you get older, you can tell whether something is accurate or not based off of maybe how you're feeling. And I've had that with the sensors. Now. It's like, especially the earlier sensors. I'm feeling a certain way. And my sensor says something else. I'm like, I don't feel like I'm already right now. Or I'm 250. Yeah. But but with the blood glucose, that I mean, that was your that was the only thing besides a urine test script, which I just didn't use that often.

Scott Benner 6:16
What was the first did you have the G four? Did you get the very first sensor?

Justin 6:20
No, I didn't. I started with the seven Medtronic.

Scott Benner 6:24
Oh, you start with Medtronic. Okay.

Justin 6:25
I did. Yeah. What do you use? Yeah, so I have the T slim for a pump. And then I use the G six and G six was the the first sensor i i really stuck with, because I had I had heart ache with the early generations. I just never found them to be accurate. And so I was I was kind of stubborn. And I just said, You know what, I'm just gonna poke my fingers 1015 times a day and just do it that way.

Scott Benner 6:56
My recollection, because Arden had the first Dexcom g4, and then she had seven plus. And then like she's had them all. But I remember back then. I mean, they were very new. You know, like, somebody had to tell me what they were. I mean, somebody just told me, when did you ever Dexcom I was like, I don't know what that is. And she told me I was like, Well, that sounds great. Then you use it. And to your point, like I couldn't tell like is this? Like, should I be looking at the number and what what I, what I eventually learned was with the very first CGM, it's not this way any longer. But I learned to just at least the arrows, the arrows that were meaningful, like, Alright, up down, falling fast, slow, that kind of stuff was really helpful early on, then obviously, it got better as time went on, but in the beginning, and that's I just use them for the arrows. It's supplemented with finger sticks constantly. Yeah, that's interesting. So you, if you had the Medtronic CGM, you had a Medtronic pump.

Justin 7:54
Correct. I switched over to tandem about a year and a half ago. I was with Medtronic for a very long time. And I was pretty loyal to them. My endocrinologist got to the point where she felt like Medtronic was a little bit behind, especially with their sensors. And so she recommended I switch. And I switched to tandem and you know, I've been very happy especially with the the weight and the size. I do think that they have been there a little ahead.

Scott Benner 8:22
Yeah, it's a good pump. It is. Yeah. Are you using control IQ? Are you using it, Matt? You are. Okay. So yep. So you were you doing automation with the Medtronic,

Justin 8:33
I was not because I didn't like the sensor. I didn't trust it. So I had a trust issue with Medtronic. So I was just running with the standard Basal patterns that we had set, you know, over time, so I wasn't using, I wasn't using the sensor, their hybrid technology with tandem. I have been, and I've been very trusting of it. I have had some issues. It's been infrequent, but they have happened. But I like the control IQ, it's really hands off, which is super nice.

Scott Benner 9:07
Especially now that I appreciate it more now that hardens at college. Like I appreciate it before, you know be but we were still like, I don't know, connected more frequently around things. So you know, but now there have been opportunities where there's just nothing like I can't contact her and she's in a class and she's not going to do anything, you know, and she's just living. And it's a it's just very comforting to see, like, I don't know, you miss on a meal or eat something it hits harder than you expect. And there's an upward rise and you don't do anything and it goes it stops eventually like it's gone. You know? Just fantastic. Really going back to when you were first diagnosed. I find usually that people in that timeframe like pretty quickly. Your parents aren't involved anymore, right? You just doing these injections and going on your way. Is that what happened for you?

Justin 10:02
Yeah, I do feel like that I felt like you know it at the age of nine and 10, though you're young, you can, you're pretty quick to figure it out. But I'll say this to back then, you know, 30 years ago, I remember them in the hospital, they just told me that you just can't have candy anymore.

Scott Benner 10:20
That was it. I was like,

Justin 10:22
I remember asking, like, I can't even have a Snickers bar. Like that's pretty, pretty huge for nine or 10 year old, right. And I just was like, heartbroken. But it wasn't the carbs were the the issue. It was just the simple sugars where the candy were. So I was told to stay away from those. And I thought, well, that's, it's heartbreaking, but it's pretty easy. And I do remember my father, because I didn't want to do the injections. He helped me with those for, like, the first summer I had it. But by the time you know, I'm going into fifth grade. He was fifth grade, I have to do those things at school by myself in you know, I, I was, as far as I know, the only one and they made me go to the office, I had to go to the office to check my blood sugar. I had to go to the office to do an injection. And the nurses and everybody were hands off. They're like, Oh, I don't know what this is. And so that was kind of weird for me. But I had to learn pretty quickly. Yeah. And you know, I'm not I wasn't nearly as efficient at managing it back then, as I am now. And that's from technology and education standpoint. But I had to learn quick, I was

Scott Benner 11:29
picturing myself in fifth grade. I was like, I didn't like my teacher. I was in trouble all the time. Like, you know, I didn't do particularly well on my classes. And I'm like, what if you gave me diabetes on top of that, like, I don't even know what I would do. You know? How did you measure outcomes? It was it just I say this a lot. But you weren't busy. And you were standing? Good day?

Justin 11:53
Yeah. Like outcomes as in when I when I took insulin, your hell? Which way? Am I trending?

Scott Benner 12:00
Yeah. Because think about think about how you think about your day to day health now, with all this data, right? And think of it back then, like, what was the golden?

Justin 12:07
I remember, and even today, I'm fairly highly sensitive to how I would feel. And so it's so weird to say, but yeah, I mean, you really learn how to listen to your body, which is, I think, good in a way right and really connected. But but I'll say this, I started really early, and I never had an issue. And I was fortunate enough to have parents who had good insurance. So I had a lot of test strips. So I have always been Intel, the GS six, I've always been a frequent tester of my glucose. So the feelings were huge, kind of understanding your body and listening to your body. But also I was a person who was testing at least 10 times a day. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:55
So anytime you thought you notice something you would check. And that's just you, right? That wasn't instilled in you by anybody, I imagine. No,

Justin 13:03
I think it's just me. I think I think it is just me, because I'll say that, you know, as far as I remember, they wanted you to test it when I say they might my physicians, and they were recommending you test often, but they weren't telling you to do it 10 times a day. So it was just me, almost, it was probably a little bit of anxiety and a little bit of, I'm kind of a perfectionist, so So that's in me too. Like, I'm feeling a little funny, or I ate this food that I know will typically send me to the moon. So I'm going to check it and check in check it

Scott Benner 13:41
out. Sounds like common sense to me. I'm just fascinated that you figured out when you were a kid, you know, like it's just, I mean, we were doing that before CGM. Like I, I know, the doctor looked at me sideways. But we when we asked for test trips, I was like, I need at least like 12 or 13 of them a day. And she's like, for what? And I was like, Well, I'm testing. Like, at like, before meals, she was right. I said, and then like an hour after the meal, and she goes, why you're gonna be high then I was like, I think there's a way not to be high after that. I'm trying to figure it out. And I need to see all this information to figure it out. So she would she would look at Arden's logs in the beginning, and say like, I don't know how to make sense of any of this. She's like you're testing when people don't test. And I was just like, Well, yeah, because I want to know what's happening here. Like, I don't care if we started at and ended at I want to know what happened in between, you know, and well couldn't they couldn't track with that for a long time. But now they do obviously,

Justin 14:39
in reality, is there is there any such thing in my mind as too much when it comes to your data and understanding what your blood sugar is doing? Because for folks who don't have diabetes, I mean it's all time right? And so with a sensor you know, I know that the the G six and something like the libre, it It takes a peek at your blood sugar every, you know if three minutes, five minutes or even even sooner with the libre, I believe but I mean, in my mind, like, they should be applauding you Yeah, for wanting to know that right? It's

Scott Benner 15:14
always backwards no matter what you say to a doctor, they're always behind the times and you're always going like, trust me, this is a good idea. So, I mean, we were lucky enough to get them the test strips and you know, our insurance covered it which was terrific. But even now like thinking like people who don't have problems regulating their blood sugar's I don't care type one type two, you know, it's never anything you're gonna think about just you're gonna live your whole life and it's just gonna, it's gonna your, your pancreas is gonna work like your toe, like it just like does the thing it's supposed to do. But for people where it's not knowing sooner is just the key. You know, even if it's pre diabetes, for type two, like, like you want to see it, because there's something you can do. And when you're type one, it's every minute like I don't, I don't understand the idea of like, my blood sugar is gonna go up to 300 I'm just gonna ignore it. I don't feel well. I won't say anything. You don't I mean, I'm just gonna live through this and see how it goes. And it's interesting that you came to it that way where your parents particularly healthy people, exercising they eat well, everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, and they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514 or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arlen does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the show. Now let's talk about the Dexcom g7. The Dexcom g7 is a small and wearable continuous glucose monitoring system. It sends real time glucose readings to your Dexcom g7 app or the Dexcom receiver. Use my link dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. To learn more and get started today, you will be able to effortlessly see your glucose levels and where they're headed. This way you'll be able to make better decisions about food, insulin and activity. Once you're able to see the impact that those variables have on blood sugar, you'll begin to make more purposeful decisions and have better outcomes. My daughter has been wearing a Dexcom My daughter has been wearing a Dexcom product for so many years. I don't even remember when she started. But today she wears the Dexcom G seven and it is small and easy. And oh my goodness, are you going to love it dexcom.com forward slash juice box you can head there now and click on the button that will get you your free benefits check or just hit that other button that says Get Started. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast. dexcom.com/juice box.

Justin 19:10
My mother? Yes, my father, not so much. My father was a very active person with his job. He had a labor job in so he ran heavy equipment and did a lot of dirt work. And so he was very active that way. But he was also a smoker. And like the only good meal he would eat would be because my mother cooked it for him. Yeah. But my mother has always been cheap. You know, my mom writes bike every day. She goes on a walk every day. She's been very attuned to her health my father would not not so much. So I think I think some of it my mom's mom is very much she's still doing yoga at 85 years old now. Wow. She's she's a really interesting lady

Scott Benner 19:58
your body stuff Oh, and your is it match your mom's? Are you kind of built? Do you don't I mean by

Justin 20:05
actually, yeah, yeah. So my, I think I'm more like my father so my father was a six, four. I'm six, two, he was very lean. I'm very lean as well. My mother, though she's, I don't know both my parents are fairly tall. My mom was five, seven. So for a woman that's that's fairly tall. And she she's muscular though she's kind of built like her her father. My mom's a little more, I guess mezzo morphic. You know, she she holds a lot of muscle. My dad was a little more Ecto morphic skinny. Yeah. Kind of like an in between.

Scott Benner 20:40
Right. Well, it's interesting, though, because you have your dad's build, but your mom's mindset. Yeah, yeah, it's good mix. Yeah, there have been times when I've looked at my kids and thought, Wow, this just went the wrong way. If instead on this topic, if it wasn't this from me, and that from Kelly, if it got flip flop, they'd be a disaster. And you know, like, you just, you just get lucky, you know? So, okay, so you go do I mean, I'm gonna, I don't even ask you, but I don't. I'm not imagining diabetes was much trouble for you through high school.

Justin 21:12
No, you know, but I was a silly high school student, like a lot of people. And so I, I paid attention. I did, but I also was, my friends were very important. So going to Red Robin, and experimenting and doing those things. You know, I do remember a time in my life where I had always kept track, and I always paid attention. But I wasn't as strict with it with the diet and all that as I am now. So I definitely had a time where I was very much just being, I mean, I hate to say it as an unhealthy teenager. But But I was, you know, I like I wanted to go out and eat with the friends and I want to go out and do those things. And it wasn't extremely frequent, but it was much more loose

Scott Benner 22:05
for sure to play sports in school.

Justin 22:08
Yep, I did. So I did. I played football, I ran track. And even those, I didn't take extremely seriously, but I did participate in your

Scott Benner 22:19
little. Hey, I just think to ask, I'm gonna guess no, because of the year. But did you pick up the smoking from your dad? Do you ever try it? No, no, no.

Justin 22:30
Didn't and I'm very fortunate my actually my father, my father's seven years ago passed away from lung cancer. Oh, I'm sorry. And it was something when I was younger, I stayed up late at night thinking about like, Man, my dad's gonna get lung cancer one day, what's gonna happen? What happened? You know, it kind of, there was a lot of fear, like what happens when you die? This is my father. Um, so I think the fear of I don't know why i i was quick to understand that, hey, this is bad for you. This is gonna be bad for him. I had no interest. And I had, I had a lot of pressure in high school from like, friends like, Hey, man, just try one. But just try one. And I remember at one time, I took a little puff off of one freaking disgusting, but never have never was I interested. And I have a long, long line of alcoholism in my family as well. And I'm not gonna lie there was there was time in my life where I had fun with friends. But I've never had any desire, or any addiction to feel as if I need to keep doing that. So I'm very, very fortunate that I didn't pick up on either of those things. Yeah,

Scott Benner 23:32
you avoided a number of things. I'm pretty sure I've never had coffee because I commingle Coffee and Cigarettes together. By the smell of my father's cigarettes along with coffee. The whole thing is just like it's nauseating to me. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So I've literally never had a cup of coffee. I'm thinking of doing it on the podcast. I was gonna say, well,

Justin 23:53
coffee is one thing. I didn't start drinking it until, like mid 20s. I started doing a little construction. I had a buddy who drank coffee as well to give me one of those. And then as I got into the fire service, it's very much a morning tailboard social thing. And so now I only drink a cup. Maybe two a day. But now, coffee. Coffee is my thing. It's part

Scott Benner 24:17
of your thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely going to try it at some point. It's just I don't think it's gonna blow you away. I think I'll be like, no. All right. Less than exciting. Yeah. Alright, so you get through high school. Did you go to college?

Justin 24:30
Yeah. So I went to a local community college and got an associate's degree from Tacoma Community College. Nobody in my family went to college. Nobody was steering me to college. I went to a small high school, so it was more built for tradesmen. So I kind of followed the path. I didn't know what the heck I wanted to do. But I did get an Associate's and I ended up going down to Texas. And I went to University of Texas down there where I got my paramedic certificate, and then I came back here to Washington State and I finished my bachelor's degree through Central Washington University.

Scott Benner 25:05
I can picture myself in high school standing in the parking lot getting getting ready to get into my car after school on a Friday afternoon, when a friend of mine says, hey, I'll see you tomorrow. And I thought, why would I see you tomorrow? I'm like, I'm like, I go to work. Oil. What are you talking about? And he goes SATs. And I'm like, what? And he goes, Yeah, SATs and I, and I swear to you, I said, What's that? I was, was 1988. And I was like, I'm like, I don't know what that is. And he's like, it's a test you take, too. And he's explained to me, and I go, I'm not doing that. And he's like, What do you mean, he's like, we're all doing and I was like, I'm not. And I went through, I went to my job at a sheetmetal shop the next day and made $40. You know, and, and it's just the same thing. You said it the way you said it made me think about it. No one ever mentioned college to me when I was growing up. They never once said, like, you know, after high school, you can, or nothing, it was stay alive. And you can get a job and your uncle and get a job and your uncle sheetmetal shop and this is over. You know what I mean? And so, anyway, it's just the way you said it really made it ring for me. Okay, yeah. How about when did you meet? Maybe that's the wrong question. Let me ask you a little bit about dating with diabetes. Because what if it wasn't your wife? So? Is that a thing that you share with women? Or is it something you kind of keep private? And show him a little bit of it? How do you handle that?

Justin 26:32
Yes. So early on, I felt embarrassed, I felt it was like, I mean, there just wasn't many people that had it, especially up into high school. So I never wanted anybody to know, it's like my friends did, of course, my close friends. But when it came to dating, I kind of felt like if I told them, they would view it as like, blue or a weakness, I don't know why. So I was pretty, I was pretty quiet about it. With as time went on, and as I got into, you know, college, and in really, it was much more prevalent, like to see someone walking around with a pump, or a sensor on or whatever it may be. And so then all of a sudden, I felt like I could loosen up a little bit because it was much more out there. But for a very long time. I didn't like people to know, because I didn't want to be viewed as like, weak or different. Or something like that, especially, especially from like a female standpoint. I didn't want them to think like, oh, well, I wouldn't want to have a long term relationship with him and get married have kids because he has this thing, right. I don't want that to be passed on or deal with that. So yeah, I didn't disclose.

Scott Benner 27:49
It's in your mind, though to like it. Yeah, I think it's seems reasonable to me that that would be something you would consider. Did you run into people who were like, yeah, no, thank you, or

Justin 28:00
no, and that, you know, it's weird, and it never really clicked, but I didn't be you know, I had a few very serious girlfriends that I dated for a long time. So So I wasn't a very frequent dater to have a lot of repetitions through it to where I was ever denied because of it. Maybe I was denied because of it. But it wasn't disclosed to me that that was why or why something didn't work out. But I never was. It didn't ever seem to be an issue. I think this was all just personal.

Scott Benner 28:27
Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. So you're Are you a paramedic now? Correct? Yeah. And I've been through this before, but EMT and paramedic aren't the same thing. Just give it to me. Yeah. briefly what the difference is,

Justin 28:41
it's just a different tier of training. So an EMT basic, is several months worth of basic life support emergency training, whereas is paramedicine. It's a year and a half more of schooling. And so we can administer certain it's a little more invasive, you can you can do more skills and administer certain drugs based on what your protocol is. So it's more schooling, and it's a little bit further training. Yeah.

Scott Benner 29:07
Does the diabetes get in the way of it at all?

Justin 29:10
It hasn't? No, I actually think that there's been some benefit because when I you know, all the patients we see need to start IVs on I was very comfortable with handling syringes and needles and drying up medications and all of those things. So there was a benefit. There were it was a downside, was getting into the fire service. I had one fire job that I had applied for in particular and I had made it through to the interview stage and was actually denied because of the diabetes they were they were concerned that I wouldn't be able to handle the workload or hours of the fire service. And so when I first got this job that I currently have, I've been at for about a decade. I was really really quiet about how lenient, I wasn't quiet to the employer, I did have to disclose it. And I did have to do some extra testing to qualify. But for we respond to a lot of diabetics in the fire service, a lot of people with hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia, maybe DKA, I didn't want to be lumped into that group. So when I was first hired at the fire department, my theory was, I will prove myself, and then over time will disclose that I'm diabetic. And I don't know if that was the right way to do it. But I just was worried that people were going to look at me as a liability. Because we go see so many diabetics, I was like, I just don't want people to think that that's going to be me. Yeah. And so I didn't disclose it. And I did find that that was a weakness, because I was I was hiding it. So I found myself in my room, you know, messing with my pomp or trying to be secretive about that. Um, so that was

Scott Benner 30:54
yes, I see both sides of it, though. Because your concern mimics what happens when people go to the doctor, and, or when, you know, you hear of a person, you know, diagnosed or kids diagnosed, and they're, they're in health care. Everyone they picture with diabetes is in their worst moment. Yeah, you know, and I've made the point before that it's not unlike a friends I have, who are police officers who just they come to expect bad interactions with people, because their whole day at work is poor interactions. Right? So it's so true. Plus, it worked for you in dating. So it wasn't a completely bad plan. You know, you're, you're like, I'll get in here. I'll make them like me. If they like me, I'll let them know. So yeah, and, you know,

Justin 31:34
that's I questioned myself a lot about whether that was the right way to go about it, you know, especially if I did have an incident, people would be like, What the hell's going on? Yeah, you know, but But thankfully, you know, especially at work, I, I'm very strict on myself, like, I will definitely stay away from high carb meals and whatnot, because I never know when the when the bells is gonna go off. And we might be gone for an hour, two hours or three hours in and you know, we I always carry something with me. I'm smarter than that. But I just I did have moments where I'd be like, I was wondering if I was making the right decision, not disclosing it. And there was a couple people who knew it wasn't completely secretive. You know, but of the 100. Some people I work with, there was a fraction that didn't, there was a large fraction that didn't know. And I remember over time, when I got more comfortable. And I'd pull my pump out of my pocket or something. They're like, I didn't, I didn't know you were diabetic. And like, oh, yeah, that'd be for 30 years. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:30
And then it's just okay. Right? Because they know you already and it doesn't matter. Listen, I had, I had a kid on here recently, he got turned down by for a job like, obviously, because of his diabetes. And the law protects him, he could have not said anything, and then disclose them afterwards, after they hired him. And then they would have been more forced to pay attention to the to the, to the law, obviously. But this is not just about that. It's about camaraderie you have at work and people's ability to trust you. And and you know, like, especially in in a vigorous setting, and it is a vigorous setting, like what you do, yeah. Yeah. How long have your shifts 24 hours you do? How many of those do you do a week.

Justin 33:12
So our schedule, now you do 24 on, you get 48 off, and then 24 on and 96 hours off. It's a pretty cool schedule. We're there. I'd say an average of eight days a month or so we have times where we work 48 hour shifts, and we do trades and we pick up overtime, but you also get vacation, all that nice stuff. So it is 24 hours at a time. So it's like a second home for sure.

Scott Benner 33:36
Yeah, that's interesting. I know that, like people I'm close with, when they first got into police work. It was it rotated three to 1111 to seven, seven to three. And then you'd have two days off. They just started over. It was like seven to three, two days off. 11 to seven, two days. And it's hard on people. Like oh, man, I think people figure it out. That's just not a reasonable way to cover shifts like that. So 24 is not bad because you can sleep if you guys aren't jumping. You can, right?

Justin 34:10
Yep, yep, exactly. And I'll say that it's, you know, you never know what your day is going to be like, you never know what it's going to bring. You never know what calls you are you aren't going to go to and that's kind of the fun. One of the most difficult parts of the job, I would say is is those late night hours when you know, I've had plenty of shifts where we were able to lay down and sleep the majority of the night and it's great you know, you're getting paid the sleep right? That's fantastic. But you're always kind of half loaded. I told my wife I get home and I'm like, you know we slept for six hours last night and I feel like trash Yeah, I think you'd you just don't really get the chance to get into that deep sleep. You know, because you're always kind of you know, you're at work you're kind of prepared to potentially get up and most nights we do get up so

Scott Benner 34:59
it Listen, I only from the time I was 16 till I was almost 20, I volunteered at a local fire department. So I cool. Yeah, so I did that for four years. And obviously you're not sleeping at the firehouse. So they had these old like God to think of how old they must look now to people, but these boxes that would just picked up radio waves, and then just set off a searing alarm in your house. And you can be dead. Like, no lie, you can be dead asleep at 3am. And at 3:10am standing outside of the house, it's it's fascinating. Like, I think back now, like I woke up this morning, it took me 20 minutes to like, know which way I was going, you know, and, and, but there's something about that adrenaline hits you, and you're like, like, Seriously, I've had moments in my life where I'm like, wrapping a fire hydrant so that we can pull hose. And I think to myself, I've only been awake for six minutes. It's, it's, it's freaking weird. And so it's such an interesting thing. Yeah, I take your point, like, it's probably hard to get into a deep sleep, because odds are, something's gonna happen. And you're gonna have to roll somewhere, right? So, yeah, 100%. And

Justin 36:11
I think, as I've gotten more, as I've gotten older, and as I've been, I've been in the job longer, it definitely seems to affect my sleep more, you know, and then I also get concerned, and I can tell the difference, even in my blood sugar. If I have a rough night, and I don't sleep much, I think there's enough stress hormone in my body to where that next morning and that next day, I feel pretty insulin resistant. Yeah. And so I've questioned the longevity of the position, simply just not even just being a diabetic. But for a lot of people. You know, you see some unfortunate things that can stick with us. So there's a mental portion to it. And then the sleep though, is the big thing. I really think that sleep is important for us. And it's one thing and I know we're not the only job that doesn't get great sleep. There's plenty of them. But it is concerning me to think about doing that for 25 some years. How I'll feel after that, that chunk of time on my life.

Scott Benner 37:10
Yeah, yeah, it's um, I was just thinking like the way you said stress hormone just now is like, when we talk about, like growth hormones, we talk about, you know, we talk about, oh, my thyroid is out of whack. So my, those hormones are off, and nobody ever says, stress, like, like that. And it uh, it's definitely worth as a matter of fact, like, you made me write a note down. I'm gonna say, All right, that's just very worth talking about because it's again, something no one, we talked about it more in the, you know, in the moment, like management, like, oh, wow, are you stressed out today? Are you blah, blah, blah. But I don't think people know when they're stressed out. You know what I mean? Like, it's Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you're not really aware of it. Your stress is different. Because anyway, I've seen a dead body. And I know what that it's not fun.

Justin 37:54
Yeah, there's yeah, there's those those questions, you know, how many of those slides do I want to place in the, in the slideshow there? You know, I don't know. And as you get older, you know, I have little girls now at home. And I've I've had some really unfortunate pediatric calls and they've stuck with me and they're a little scarring and and then like I said, I there's these jobs have to be done. And I'm, I'm very fortunate to have the job and be a part of it. But there are times where I question how much of that I want to do and how much of that I want to see. And they've really affected me differently. As I've gotten older, and as I have children, and yeah, I don't feel old, but I do definitely. You know, when you're 20 years old, you don't die. Right. You're invincible, right? Well, you you know now, I'm 41. And I'm diabetic, and you hear a lot of bad things that come along with diabetes, and I start to question my mortality more and then you see sick people at work. And like you said about the police officer. You start seeing all these sick people, then you start feeling like, gosh, dang, is everybody sick? I could be me.

Scott Benner 38:59
Yeah, I had that thought sometimes making this podcast where I I'm like, God, everyone doesn't have an autoimmune disease. Right? Like, like that. But I start feeling that way or, but to your point of feeling indestructible. me right now thinks back on. I can think of picturing a fire where I'm on the roof of a three storey house with a soft in the middle of the night. It just by doing? Like, that's insane. You know, it's just not a thing that it's just not a thing that you do. And you do wonder, like, how how many times can I do this? I can picture an auto accident. Where, you know, we were setting up to take the door off this car. And I just went to look in the car so I could understand what it was we were doing. And I went back to the to the lieutenant I was like, there's no one in the car. What do we pull the door off the car for? And he goes she's under the dash. Oh no. And I was like, Wait What? And there's an old, an older, frail woman that wasn't wearing a seatbelt. And the literally she ended up under the dash and that in the passenger side. I mean, I'm never gonna forget that. Yeah, I take your point. So, um,

Justin 40:14
I say I say a lot of the things that that we see, you know, and there's there's so many people in the fire service in the police service that you know, that see these things, but a lot of it you're only supposed to see on movies. You're not I mean, no, and you get the chance to see that real life real person, and everybody handles it differently. You know, but it is. Yeah, it's interesting. And like you said, those are things that you will never forget, right. And I'm sure you have the opportunity to truly help some people, right. And that's rewarding, it really is. But it also comes a little heavy, too, when when you see those folks that, you know, maybe made one bad decision, or someone else made a bad decision that this other individual may suffer for that. That's, that's huge. And that weighs on you a little bit close friend

Scott Benner 41:03
of mine, I think I've mentioned this once on here before but told me the first time he had his gun out. And he was, you know, he's a police officer. He's at this house where there was a person in the house that made their way into the basement of homeowners like they just ran downstairs. And my friend starts to descend the steps and realizes that his legs are going to be visible in the basement long before his torso, and his eyes and his gun are clear. And he said I actually consciously thought, Do I really want to be a police officer? Oh, gosh, no kidding. Yeah. And and then he said, he's like, it's just the most like, charged up he's ever felt in his entire life. Gosh, yeah. And then you get down there. And the guy went out the window. And he's like, he's like, I was just like, like, frozen for a second like this. Just a crazy thing.

Justin 41:53
I really respect the the people in the police force because I tell you what, you know, I don't know what it would be like, especially if you were initially responding alone. In every every incident they go to the individual they're responding to probably doesn't want them there. They don't want to they don't you know, so it's, I don't know, I that would be a scary job. I really respect that position. I work closely with a lot of police officers because they secure a lot of scenes for us, you know, so it's a tough job.

Scott Benner 42:25
And it's also it's not like on television, like six cars don't show up with 12 people. It's like my buddies in the house going, okay. Like, you know, I guess this is me, if it was me, I didn't turn to the lady and said, Hey, bad luck. This guy in your basement now we ought to get the hell out of here, you know, believes in Yeah, I'm sure I'll get bored. Yeah, no, it's it's really interesting. So your wife is a physician's assistant. Correct? Okay. Does she have involvement with your diabetes? Now as an adult, she listens

Justin 42:57
to me be upset every so often when you know, I, I eat something and I take my insulin and for some reason, my blood sugar decides to take off on me. Or the other day, I was at work, and I had the catheter on my site, it came out. So I had for dinner, I had some chicken thighs, and I think I put on my fire gear. I don't know if it just grabbed it, right? I'm not really sure. But I ate a salad and chicken, not many carbs, my blood sugar starts taking off. And I'm taking insulin, and it's still going up. I'm taking insulin, and it's still going and I'm like, Alright, this is not fun. Well, I just happened to check my leg. And for some reason the catheter had come out, which is really rare, weird. So she listens to those things, you know, but I'll say she's very supportive when it comes to like, the diet that we eat, you know, we tried to eat pretty carb moderate, and we were very active people. She is a partner in all of that. But fortunately, you know, I don't, I don't my management. It's so second nature to me these days, you know, having it for 30 years. There's not a lot that, that that goes her way. I will say when we first met over a decade ago before I got a sensor, and we were we were having fun, you know, like we would go out and eat, eat cheat meals and all that she she witnessed a couple of a couple episodes where I was extremely hypoglycemic and a little confused, and that scared her a little bit. So she's had to witness those things and help me a little bit at times. Yeah, but most of my management now that's just it's me.

Scott Benner 44:40
So that brings up a good point. I'm assuming Yes, but do you do it with your children too? Like, do they know how to help you with glucagon?

Justin 44:47
No, so it's funny because you know, they're three and five and I think my oldest Addison she she would understand it a little bit if I if I sat her down and in you actually bring up a great point because it's something I should probably start talking talking to her about as she gets older and I haven't they understand that oh you're you're checking your blood sugar or Oh, you're you're pumped they get it, which is really cool. But I if daddy went down, I don't I don't think they would know what to do if you know mom wasn't here in my my, my wife works 12 hour shifts, so she's gone for 14 hours. So when I'm here with the kids, it is just us for a very long time. And I'm going to take a note too, because I don't want

Scott Benner 45:31
to see anything bad happen to you. But I just had this like interesting image of like a three to five year old standing over you the spent like Jeeva Capo bed you wake back up and like we got it that don't worry about it. I mean, it's something you're gonna say to him eventually. Right? And it's Oh, absolutely. You're making me think of this video I just saw online where there's a fire in on a kitchen fire. I don't know what I don't people must have cameras all over their house at this point. I don't understand exactly. But you know, something's on fire in the kitchen, the guy that put the thing on, he's gone for a little bit. This very little kid like walks in the room like little and just assesses the situation. And turns around is like, whoa, everybody. The kitchens on fire. You know, like really like, like, sounds the alarm for everyone. I'm assuming nobody ever told him to do that. And you know, I funny? Yeah. I mean, I get your three. Your three year old is not going to help you. Five or six man. I don't know. Like he's there. Yeah. Which one do you have?

Justin 46:27
For the glucagon? Yeah. Which

Scott Benner 46:29
one do you use?

Justin 46:30
It's just the typical Well, that would be the the hard thing to you have the red box open? Yes. I

Scott Benner 46:35
have the red box. It's been discontinued. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know if it's actually happened yet, but it's happening. So your options are and full disclosure there. There are an advertiser, the G voc hypo pen, which is where all about it's super simple. I bet your kids could do that. And then there's the knees. Sam writing it down right now. Yeah, but and there's a nasal spray too, but I don't know. interested? Yeah, I'd be more. I'm looking around for it. I have a I don't know where it's at. It looks like an epi pen. And you pop the cap off. Press it against the skin. You get one click the second click means it's done. That's it. I have an episode that explains how to use it. But yeah, I don't know. Anyway, just isn't it funny? Like this is your job. And I almost think you and I are looking at each other. I don't do every episode looking at people. But I was like, Hey, how about glucagon? And I saw your eyes for all like, hell. Yeah, but no, anyway,

Justin 47:32
firefighters are the worst that were

Scott Benner 47:36
I every time a thin pretzel like like a hard pretzel from a bag, this is gonna seem like a left turn. Every time I have one of those I think about my dad, because they would, they would sit on the bar at the firehouse. My dad was a fireman. And oh, cool. They guys would get together. They drink beer on the weekend. So it always be this basket of pretzels there. And like they didn't eat those things sort of pretzels. Like I, I take a bite of one of those. And I can see my dad like leaning on the bar. And like all that stuff. It's pretty interesting. I went back there recently for an event. And the whole place had been completely just renovated. And I was looking around I was like, where's Where's where's my childhood memory? What you guys deal with it? And yeah, they're like, oh, that's over there now. And I was like, okay. But anyway, we spent a lot of time doing that. Also, people don't realize you're in a rig. And the sirens are going to you know what you're heading to? Does that hit your blood sugar? You get adrenaline from that?

Justin 48:38
Yeah, it can. It kind of it goes to its to that same as a rough night. It's the stress or I had. I had an interview the other day for lieutenant's position. And I was so nervous that I think that stress hormone was present, I became a little insulin resistant. And I'm like, I watched my blood sugar trend up and up and up. And so calls that have been intense or made me a bit nervous. It has affected my blood sugar. It's fairly rare. Now, you know, it does take a lot to get me spun up or excited. But we go to like a pediatric call or we I was on a train derailment here. Wow. That that one spun me up a little bit too. I will post a bio by an hour, two hours and all that it will start to just naturally trend up in the wrong direction. So yeah, it most certainly does.

Scott Benner 49:37
Do you have any issues? I'm assuming your algorithm kicks in, but then when the adrenaline goes away, you need to eat ever for that afterwards,

Justin 49:44
you know, you know, I haven't I haven't had any issues. The only time I've crashed after an episode like that a stressful incident has been because I've been overly aggressive self bolusing because I'm sure Trying to get it down because I'm hungry or whatever it may be. And so then all of a sudden, you know, you have your algorithm that's kicked in, it's not working fast enough for you. So then you self Bolus, and then all of a sudden you take off the wrong direction. And you start trending down pretty rapidly. I've done that several times, just out of frustration of like, Gosh, darn it I want to eat or whatever it is, or I've been high for two hours or three hours, like just come down. So your pump wants to work a little more slowly and safely than that. Me getting a little overly aggressive. Yeah,

Scott Benner 50:33
trying to get through it. Yeah, yeah, um, I take your point, though, about eventually, it just becomes like I can, I can put myself back in a cab of a truck, and you're hearing like things coming over the radio. And when you're younger, it's like, ah, but as you do it longer, you just start prioritizing in your head, like when we get there, I'm going to do this, and then this, and then I'm gonna, like it just sort of turns into, it's interesting, because something that would freak most people out eventually, you see is like, just kind of black and white. Exactly. Yeah. So we're 50 minutes into this. And I think we're covering what you did. But I want to be sure, like, why did you want to come on the podcast

Justin 51:09
I've wanted. So this was out of recommendation from people that I surround myself with friends, they're like, You need to start speaking about your experience with diabetes, and you need to, you know, and not to not to not to sound like overly cocky or confident or toot my own horn. But I feel like for 30 years, I've been pretty successful. And on the other side of that, I think a lot of us now know someone who has passed away from diabetes complications, or who's had it, or who's considered a fragile diabetic or whatever else. And so, I've told myself, I wanted to start volunteering my time, and speaking to individuals like yourself, about my experience, and what I do, and hopefully people who who want to listen, maybe we'll learn something, or even with kids, or people who feel like Man, this sucks having diabetes, and like, I feel like I may be limited or I can't do these certain things. Well, I mean, I just want people to know that that is not the truth at all, especially with all the new technologies that we have. So for me, I just wanted to you know, what you taught me, like, hey, you need to teach your daughters you need to get you need to update your glucagon. So it's kind of those things like I'm hoping to catch something, but I'm also hoping to contribute. And that's my biggest thing is like, an individual I work with his son got diabetes at the age of seven. And he saw me at the fire service. And this was when very little people knew I had it. He came up to me, he goes, Hey, I hear you have a secret. And I'm like, what, what secret you're talking about here? And he goes, Well, I know you're diabetic. And he said, Hey, I have a son who's diabetic. And he said, I want you to know that it's really cool to see you out here. Acting just as acting, participating in succeeding just like everybody else, because he's like, that's what I want for my son. And so for me, it made me feel like okay, I've done a pretty good job. Have I? Have I been perfect? Absolutely not. Am I still high? Sometimes? Yes. Do I still go low? Sometimes? Yes. Do I still eat crappy food? Sometimes, yes. But I also pay attention. I'm very involved. And I feel like if I can get out and share my story and talk to people like yourself and learn a little bit, I hope that people will just see that like, okay, I can do it, I can do whatever I want. I'm no different. It's just, you know, I always say that I'm driving a stick shift. Everybody else is driving an automatic.

Scott Benner 53:38
That's it. What do you think the keys are to the path that you're on?

Justin 53:43
I think it's just, you have to be very willing to put in the time and pay attention, right? I think a lot of us want the pill, right? Like if your blood pressure's high, just give me the pill. If your cholesterol is high, just just give me the pill we all we all want to do. The the eight minute ABS or the seven minute abs, nobody really wants to do that the hour in the gym. I think where the success comes is is you have to be willing to, to put in the time to to pay attention really put in the effort. Do a little exercise. Prep your meals, don't don't eat, don't in like I said I mean, from a mental standpoint, you got to go out with your friends and you gotta eat Red Robin every so often or whatever. I don't know why I keep using Red Robin.

Scott Benner 54:34
Every time you said it makes me think yum.

Justin 54:38
Exactly. But I think I think it's just it's just be be willing to pay attention and be willing to put in the time that it takes to manage it because it does take time and I've had frustrations all the time.

Scott Benner 54:51
And you just gotta you gotta get back to it that it's just I think so for me. The way I've learned to talk about it is that it that you just first need to understand how insulin works, right? Like, there's just nothing else is going to work if your settings are wrong, and you don't understand how the insulin actually works, from there, eliminating as many of the speed bumps as possible. That's what creates free time in your life and free space in your head. And you can actually go live the way you want to when you're always afraid. Like, I mean, honestly, the story here is you sleeping at work versus you sleeping at home, right at work, you're not sure what's going to come, you can never really relax. And if you don't know what's going to come with diabetes, you can find yourself in the same situation. So I you know, I just think that step one is understanding how insulin works. And then, you know, moving from there,

Justin 55:46
I think that that's huge, too, is kind of understanding how diabetes works. And I have been absolutely blown away by some of the people that I've talked to for the amount of time they've had diabetes. And not only them, but the people that are close to them, family members have no idea. And like I said, I have a just a quick little story. And this is what I see frequently. We went to a guy who was very hypoglycemic, we started an IV, we tuned him up, we got his blood sugar back, and within five minutes, he's up and he's feeling just fine, a little embarrassed, but neither he or his family knew how to treat hypoglycemia. This is what do we do? If that happens? Should we give him insulin? And I'm like, you want to kill them? Sure.

Scott Benner 56:31
That happens a lot. That really does happen a lot. People say that a lot. Well,

Justin 56:35
you know what's interesting, this guy had had diabetes for 25 years.

Scott Benner 56:39
The people around him no idea.

Justin 56:42
Not a clue. Not a clue. And so maybe he was maybe he was a little more educated. But I have a feeling if the people that were around him had no idea. He's probably not far behind that. Yeah, right. Right. Far ahead of

Scott Benner 56:55
it. In the end, it doesn't matter anyway. Because when someone gets dizzy, it's him. So yeah. We don't want the Dizzy guy being the only one with the information. So yeah, well, listen, we just it just I get the vibe, but you don't actually listen to the podcast, which is actually fine. I don't I don't mind. But how did you find it?

Justin 57:14
Yeah, so I did start listening to the podcast. But you're right before that I did. And so I listened to a lot of different health related podcasts. But I have not listened to anything diabetic specific. It wasn't until I first reached out to you that I started digging in to find more specific podcasts and even there's a camp local to us that I'm going to donate my time to for children that I started listening to podcasts like yours in I don't know why. Not that I know everything about diabetes or anything. I just felt. I don't know why I didn't listen to him. But But ultimately, yes, I am new to it was because I wanted to start sharing my story and in learning and being surrounded in, in the community of of folks like myself, right to just start offering my and sharing my experiences and learning from other people how they're doing it too, because I know there's people out there that are probably doing things differently than me that I can pick up some stuff from, or maybe doing it better than me too. So I think it just it makes it makes sense. It just took me a while to get there.

Scott Benner 58:24
Yeah, I mean, I understand. I mean, the reason I make the show, the way I make it is because it's my concern that people will like if we just got on and said the stuff. People would be like, I'm not this boring. You don't I mean, like I'm okay, I got a seven and a half a one. See, my doctor seems happy, like, why am I going to listen to this. So I've tried to mix it in more with people's stories. And you know, and then we slip the management in places, and hopefully everybody kind of comes along for the ride. But there's a Pro Tip series that helps people with management, there's both beginning series that helps newer people. One of them that I'm really proud of is the defining diabetes, because there's I don't know how many at this point, like dozens of terms that people just don't know. And they get like, think about it, like how do you not know how to stop a low blood sugar if you've had diabetes, but it's fairly common. And it's people who are like, the one that always sticks with me is that a lady said until I listened to your show, I didn't know I was on MDI. I also didn't know what MDI meant. Like imagine doing something every day you don't know the name of and yeah, you know, How good can you be at it? If you don't understand when someone says Bolus or hypoglycemia that your mind doesn't right away? No, hypo means blood you don't mean like, exactly like hearing it's like hearing a foreign language so you know

Justin 59:43
that it's it like my job. I've looked back at it and I we've I've had some very rewarding moments and for yourself, you have to feel that same way. When you hear a story like that, right like that. How cool is that that you are it's a very involved disease if you want to do Well add it in, you want to pay attention, right? It is, it's not as simple as just taking a pill for the most part, especially with type type one. So for you to be educating and helping folks and you hear someone say something like like that, that's got to be pretty rewarding for you.

Scott Benner 1:00:17
It is. And here's a good example of you only know what you know, earlier, you talked about your cannula getting knocked out, but you call it a catheter, because that's what you're, that's what you're surrounded with most of the time. Yeah, right. And not that, by the way, not that either of those is wrong. But like colloquially, you'd call it a cannula and you know that for sure. Right? And but you're so if you're, if you're not surrounded by the words, when you go to do something, how do you like, and then the words are tools. So if you don't have the tools, then how do you know what to do when you get into the situations and I mean, the way the healthcare system is set up, like you're not gonna, no one's gonna tell you any of that, like, so you're on your own to hopefully glean as much of it as you can, where are you going to find that from, especially when, as you know, you pointed out with your story, and many people have before, it's not like you're running around with a million people who have diabetes, and you can all kind of like, lean on each other a little bit. You know, what

Justin 1:01:08
I really appreciate appreciate about your podcasts, especially as I started listening to it in I felt this way, when our physicians are overwhelmed, right, and whether that's a general practitioner, or an endocrinologist, or whoever it is that you see, thinking about 20 minutes with you. In my personal opinion, it's not enough time, I can't tell you how many times I've spoke with my endocrinologist, which I really enjoy. But I feel like they're not going to remember the the conversation that I just had with them. 20 minutes after I'm gone, they're on from one person to the next into the next into the next. So it's, it's our duty, as a diabetic and my duty as a diabetic to to, to be very involved myself, no one's going to do it for me, but also to share what isn't isn't working for me, because I've been frustrated with my physicians, because I can just tell that they don't have the time. They can't sit down there with you and baby you through all these things. You really have to pay attention to do these things yourself. And that's why I think podcasts like yours, where you're educating people are the people who are willing to hop on and listen and do it. I mean, it's the it's going to be the best route for you.

Scott Benner 1:02:14
I can't tell you how, in the beginning, I had a blog, and it was popular. And it helped people I could tell by the feedback, but the leap from a blog to a podcast for how many people you hear back from and how much more quickly they can absorb the information and all the all that stuff. It's been like, it's crazy. I am honestly at the point now, where if I don't hear from 20 people a day, I think the internet's broken, you know, there's nothing wrong with the internet, how come I'm not getting the emails and the notes today? Like, you know, I mean, I just take your point. It's, it's, it's a perfect distribution system for this sort of stuff. And I'm glad it exists because you meet a person who was just diagnosed. And maybe I never say hi to them, maybe I don't know them, but they know me. And they know this conversation. And I just think about 20 years from now, when their life just kind of rolling along. They'll, they'll have forgotten about me by then, which is absolutely fine. Like I don't I don't want people mired in it. I want them to, like thrive, you know. And it's just it's very cool to think that you're impacting something like that they had the real opportunity to go the wrong way. Yeah, but your, your point about the doctor's appointments. So my, my son just got his first job and left the house and my daughter's in college. And as soon as I, I was like, Alright, I'm gonna, like take care of better hair myself. Like, there are things my body doesn't do well, that I'm like, I've been ignoring this my whole life, like I'm going to figure it out. But through making the podcast, we met a integrative endocrinologist that helps my whole family with their thyroid issues. And I thought, I'm just gonna go to her. Like, she's like, don't get me wrong. She's the cache doctor. You know what I mean? But But here's, here's the difference. My initial appointment was 90 minutes long. I sat in a chair, she sat next to me, we chatted, I went over my entire life health history, she took notes she got done, she said, here are the three areas I think we need to do blood tests for I went to I mean, I can't believe I didn't run out of blood the other day when I was when I was at the lab. And when those tests come back in a couple of days, I don't have to go back and see her again. She's gonna send me an email. Your tests are back. We're gonna do the things we talked about here, here and here. Is there a place I can send a prescription to where blah, blah, blah, or do this? And it's happening, it's happening. It's happening. It's not like I see them. The test comes back four months later, I get another appointment. I cancel it because my kid fell. And then it's now it's nine months later, they ended octopus. I have to run those labs again. They're too old. Like it's that hell you get stuck in, you know? So, I mean, I don't know what we'll think You're out or what we won't figure out. But I know for certain there's an honest, focused effort going into it. And I can still turn into my insurance who will pay for most of it. So it's hard. That's, you know,

Justin 1:05:12
as I say, it's, it's rare that you have found that and that's why I've recently just had an appointment yesterday with the doctor who specializes in functional medicine, just because I know that I'm not completely happy with my endocrinologist, but at the, you know, where I'm at, I feel like most of the times my visit for them is just to update a prescription. And they look over my trends. But I mean, when you're looking at three months worth of blood sugar data, and you do it over a 15 minute period, I mean, what are they really? Are they really getting out of it? And he looks at me when seeing he's like, Oh, you're at 6.1. He's like, that looks really good. He's like, Oh, I see you had 40 in there. Don't be 40 anymore. I'm like, Okay, that sounds good. Was there anything else I can do for you how your how your prescriptions are they fall? Like, well, I can probably use, you know, a refill on the Novolog. He's like, okay, good. Well, hey, we'll see in three months, wherever you get your bloodwork done. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:06:01
he's your drug dealer. Really? He's your drug dealer? Justin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%, you bump into him on the corner, he acts like he cares about you a little bit gives you a prescription for a job, okay, full pen and some insulin and you're on your way. Again, you made it more eloquently stated earlier, it's not their fault. Like, it's just the whole things like this, you know, I had a Yeah, I can't say with who. But I got invited to grand rounds at a pretty prestigious hospital. So like, I'm going to give the talk at Grand Rounds. Right? And hopefully very cool. That'll all come together. And but while we were setting it up on the phone, I said, you know, can I float an idea I've had to you that I've a lot of people have like, heard and been like, oh, we can't do it. It's always around insurance. And I said type ones, type twos also, but type ones very specifically, stop seeing them 15 minutes at a time. Why don't you have them all come into an auditorium and talk to them for three hours? Why not do it that way? You know, and then run around at the end and do the personal hand, whatever you got to do for insurance. I'm like, but they all have the same questions, or they all have the same idea. You know what I mean? Like do it all at once I say let them sign something that waives their HIPAA rights if they want to, like talk out loud or something like that. But but that's a better way. It's really it's a podcast in person. And that's a great idea. And I've sent it to a couple of hospitals. Some of them are like, Oh, it's insurance problems. It's HIPAA issues. But the last time I sent it to somebody, the person on the other end of the phone said, Boy, I've thought about that, too. And I'm like, should do it should do a pilot program with 20 people, you know, and see if you can't see a measured difference. So anyway, there's a free idea for everybody. That's all I kept you longer than I said, I was going to you okay. No, I'm

Justin 1:07:54
absolutely fine. Yeah. All right.

Scott Benner 1:07:55
Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should have? No, you know, I

Justin 1:07:58
think for me, and hopefully, in the future, I'll jump on here with you again, you know, but but for me, it was just wanting the chance to get on and just chat about being a type one diabetic and, and, you know, 30 years is or 31 years is not the oldest living diabetic out there. And not the longest by a longshot but, but I just want people to, for me, I want people to know that you can be successful. You know, there's a lot of great technology out there. You can do anything you want to do. I mean, I'm a very active person, we travel a lot, we do a lot of fun things, you're not limited by anything. And so for me, that's that's kind of my big thing is, is just being able to hop on with individuals, like yourself, learn a few things from you share a few things about my life, and hopefully, like like, you know, educating people and people say, Wow, that's great. I can't believe that. I didn't know that now. I know that. Yeah. I'm hoping hoping people will will catch something from me.

Scott Benner 1:09:02
I think they will. This is a terrific conversation. Do you have like social media where people can find you? Yeah, so

Justin 1:09:07
I just have a personal Instagram account. And it's it's at J Maurice. That's my middle name. It's J M. Au, our ice 81 My birth year.

Scott Benner 1:09:19
Give it to me again. I'm gonna look it up. J.

Justin 1:09:21
J. Maurice. 81 is J M. Au our ice 81

Scott Benner 1:09:27
for there at other J Maurices on Instagram. You wouldn't think that there

Justin 1:09:33
would be but it just just J Maurice wasn't wasn't available. And most of what I post on there is is my my young little daughters because they're they're more fun than me.

Scott Benner 1:09:43
Yeah. All right. Well, cool. I hope people can reach out and find you there. I really do appreciate you doing this. Thank you so much.

Justin 1:09:50
Yeah, Scott was nice to meet you. And I hope like I said one day in the future. I hope we can chat again and stay in touch and maybe I can bring you some information and I I can learn from you. And like I said, I've started listening to your podcasts. And I've been more focused on that. Because for me wanting to be more involved in deliver, hopefully deliver education and continue to learn things, and especially show young children that, you know, I was young too, and I had it in kind of a look at me now, I hope to stay involved. And I hope to chat with you again.

Scott Benner 1:10:24
All right. I'm going to ask you one more thing before you go. I appreciate all that. Sure. How the hell did you get more racism? middle name?

Justin 1:10:30
Oh, yeah, right. I know. Not very, not a very typical, and it wasn't that whose family did you? Well, my dad's best friend's name was Maury. And so they originally wanted to name me after my dad's not my mom. But my dad and his best friend wanted to name me, Maury. And my mom was like, No way.

Scott Benner 1:10:54
She's like, Oh, yeah, so

Justin 1:10:56
somehow they came up with Maurice and it landed is my my middle that I do have I have three first names. My My last name is also a first name.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
Well, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but your episode title might be the pomp what does that line from that Song Pop Pop potamus of love eponymous of love or however you said is it? Yes. The Joker?

Justin 1:11:20
The Steely Dan song? I think it is.

Scott Benner 1:11:23
Is it not? Steve Miller? How do you not know?

Justin 1:11:26
Steve is Steve Miller? Yes. Yeah, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:11:29
I'm like, am I barking up the wrong tree here? I think it's in the Joker. Right? Everybody calls people call me more people call me Murray's. Yeah, well, that might be your episode title. Hey, I love it. That's really wonderful. I have said it before. And I'll say it again. My middle name is terrible. And I'm never gonna say it on here. Maybe on the last episode, but I'll tell you when we get off. So thank you very much. I appreciate it. You got it. A huge thanks to Justin for coming on the show today and sharing his story. I also want to thank Dexcom dexcom.com/juice box head over Now get yourself a Dexcom G seven or maybe a G six. Of course the podcast was also sponsored today by us med. You can get your diabetes supplies just the same way we do at US med. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do something with you right now. I got an email the other day that Arden's Omni pod supplies, were ready for filling. I found the email. I've clicked According to our records, your prescriptions or supplies are due for refill blah, blah, blah, check my address. Reorder, it's done. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 hand to God as they say I just reordered Arden's Omni pod supplies through us mud in the time that you heard me do that. Honestly, I kind of forgotten about the email that arrived the other day. I was just downstairs a half an hour ago. My wife's like, hey, there was a phone call from us med about reordering supplies, which means the email came after I had it for a few days and I didn't reply. They started calling my house. My wife reminded me I came up here found myself making this ad completely just randomly, and you listen to me reorder the Omni pods. That's how long it took. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1052 After Dark: Restaurateur

Nicole has type 1 diabetes, owns a restaurant and is here to tell her stories.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1052 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today I'll be speaking with Nicole. She's had type one diabetes since she was 21 months old and she's now over 40. Today we talk about owning a restaurant, drug and alcohol use, and much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician. Before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. You want to get five free travel packs in the year supply of vitamin D, use my link drink ag one.com/juice box because that's what you'll get with your first order at that link. Speaking of things you'll get 40% off at checkout with the offer code juice box. At cozy earth.com. You get a great insulin pump at Omni pod.com/juice box and amazing CGM at dexcom.com/juice box. As a matter of fact, when you use any of the links from the Juicebox Podcast, you're gonna get great stuff. And you'll be supporting the podcast. So give that stuff a look, would you? There's links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Go get your Omni pod five right now at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Today's show is also sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next.com Ford slash juicebox. Get yourself an incredibly accurate an easy to use blood glucose meter. Get the contour next gen.

Nicole 1:59
My name is Nicole. I have been a type one diabetic since I was 21 months old. And I am about to be 40 this year. Wow. Yeah,

Scott Benner 2:10
not quite too. So 38 years about

Nicole 2:15
Yeah, yeah, goodness. Yeah, it was 38 years. It's been my really literally the whole life. I don't remember life before diabetes. No

Scott Benner 2:24
kidding. One thing nickeled try not to like, follow Yeah, just yeah, whatever that is that might be allowed chair or I'm not sure what you're doing right now. Also, interestingly enough, I was going to real quick do the math on what year it was when you were diagnosed? And then I realized I'm not 100% sure what year it is right now.

Nicole 2:45
I was diagnosed in 1985. Okay, wow. Yeah. My mom was pregnant with my sister. So my sister and I are exactly two years and two weeks apart. So I was diagnosed in July of 1985. And my mom was due with my sister. I think her due date was actually scheduled for the end of August. And yeah, then diabetes walked in and messed it up for

Scott Benner 3:14
you besides your sister, any other siblings?

Nicole 3:17
Nope. Just the just the sister. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:20
How about diabetes, autoimmune in your family.

Nicole 3:24
So my sister has Hashimotos. She was diagnosed few years ago. But as far as we know, no other autoimmune. My grandmother has had really terrible arthritis. I don't know whether it was rheumatoid or not. I don't. I can't remember if all of the arthritis is or autoimmune or if it's just the rheumatoid but anyhow, so she, but that's the only that's the only history that we have. Now, with that said, I didn't really know my dad's side of the family. So I mean, it might exist there. And we just were not familiar but

Scott Benner 4:00
yeah, okay. Yeah. Um, I don't think all arthritis is not on me. And I'm gonna look real quick. Yeah, I

Nicole 4:08
don't think that they are. I really thought just rheumatoid. But again, I don't know if what she had whether it was thought or not. Yeah, passed away a couple of years ago.

Scott Benner 4:15
I say, Yeah, this year says like, osteo. Excuse me. Osteoarthritis is not an autoimmune disease. Right. Okay. So, real quick before we move on your sister, do you think she had Hashimotos for much longer than she realized? Where do you think it came on?

Nicole 4:31
I think I think she probably had it for longer than she realized. My sister struggled a lot through high school and growing up with like, various, various issues. But she when she got married, she was trying to get pregnant and was having trouble conceiving when they did a bunch of tests on or to see what the issues were Hashimotos popped up as, as one of the problems so yeah, yeah, I

Scott Benner 4:56
don't need you to tell me a lot. I'm not asking you to tell me about I was just interested in About Oh, that's great. Yeah,

Nicole 5:01
I think she's probably had it for a long time. But we really kind of went undiagnosed and not not familiar.

Scott Benner 5:07
So what I mean, your, your note to me is, is simple and short. So I'm wondering what made you want to come on the podcast?

Nicole 5:17
Well, so like I said, I've been listening to you for a really long time, like, I want to say, probably pretty close to the beginning. I don't know how I stumbled upon your podcast, but I really have been listening to it for a long, long time. I'm part of the Facebook page. And you had reached out on Facebook at one point trying to find some people to do after dark episodes. So that's kind of what I volunteered with. I have a few, like, topics that I think might be relevant to an after dark, but that's kind of why I reached out to you.

Scott Benner 5:50
Well, Nicole, listen, yeah, thank you for for responding. When I did that. I have to tell you. I used to have trouble getting after dark episodes in the beginning, right? It was like, Hey, can somebody and people were just like, you know, every once in a while you get somebody to jump up in the butt anymore? No trouble. I don't think

Nicole 6:12
the taboo came out of it. Because you were doing them enough. I imagine that people got less afraid of talking about some of the subjects that you were discussing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:21
Well, the problem ended up being is that I put the call out thinking I was still in the same position. And now I've got I've got 25 recordings of people who like, you know, at some point in their conversations, had my life said dumpster fire.

Nicole 6:36
Well, and I think leading up to this call as well, I really went I had initially messaged you saying, Oh, we could do an after dark. I had some topics I thought were relevant and that we could discuss. But it doesn't need to be that way either. I mean, again, I've been doing this for a long time. So there's some I mean, lots of topics that we can talk about that are necessarily after dark.

Scott Benner 7:00
Sure. Sure. Well, yeah. So let's just go and I mean, we don't have to, like point ourselves in one direction. Although now everyone listening is like, well, whoa,

Nicole 7:08
what's, what's her secret? What does she want to talk about?

Scott Benner 7:11
Maybe we'll get to it. But you know, I've never done this before. But because you've been listening for so long. I'm gonna let you lead the way. What do you want to tell?

Nicole 7:21
Oh, yeah, I think I've been kind of through the thick and thin of it. I mean, I know you have a lot of a lot of people on as well that have been in this in this disease for a long time. And I wanted to kind of, you know, I guess, share my story and my version of it. Like I said, I was diagnosed at 21 months old, there was no life before diabetes, it was just always what I did. My family's life revolved around diabetes as well. So my sister lived like a diabetic, she, she there was no sugar. When we went trick or treating as kids, obviously, we would both collect whatever candy we could get. And then my mom would buy the candy off of us. So it's not like my sister was like, living like a normal kid with, you know, a bunch of sugar lying around, she could just do whatever she wanted. She really looked like a diabetic too, which is kind of funny. And I, you know, when I, I'm a part of a lot of different Facebook groups for type ones. And I think sometimes I give, you know, suggestions of things that my mom did, growing up that I thought were really kind of creative and wonderful. And then I think treating the whole house like we all had the disease was was a nice way of dealing with it. I never felt ashamed of diabetes. It was never an embarrassing point for me. All the kids at my school knew, and they all knew what to do in the event that something bad happened.

Scott Benner 8:50
Really how love the teachers, your mom, did your mom, like come into the school and explain that everybody?

Nicole 8:55
Yeah, yeah. My mom was very she was very present at the school. So I actually went to a little tiny country school. I grew up almost across the street from the school, but it was in the country and on a pretty busy highway. So we had to be bused in or drove in. And my mom did a lot of my mom was a stay at home mom when I was a kid. So she went to a lot of the, you know, she would volunteer for recess to be one of the I forget what they were called the parents that like walked around and made sure the kids were misbehaving or whatever. She became on all the field trips, she did all of those things. So yeah, she was she was very present. And then, before the school year started, she made a point of sitting down with every teacher and talking to them about what to expect and I mean, I'm in Canada. I don't know if I mentioned that at the beginning. But so our system is a little bit different up here. We don't have school nurses or whatever. But anyway, so she always made a point of being present at the school and I just again, I really don't think that it was ever like something that I shied away from. Everybody just knew. Again, it was a tiny school. So, the kids I went to school with in kindergarten were the same kids I went to school with in grade six, like, there wasn't a lot of turnover. And, you know, they all just, they were familiar. They knew. They knew when does

Scott Benner 10:11
that ever mean? Did that ever come into play? Like, did a child ever help you or I had

Nicole 10:16
a, I passed out one time at school. So like I said, I was diagnosed in 85. And when I was first diagnosed, we were on the, you know, kind of two needles a day. And he Mulan and our and we were very scheduled. It was like, breakfast at 7am. lunch at noon, dinner at 530. There was no, if you were 15 minutes late for any of those things, you know, it was going to be a problem. And so I remember one time, I had joined the school choir was on my way to choir practice at lunch, and I had decided to skip my lunch until after choir was done. And so we were walking to choir practice, and I passed out on the way down the hall. And a friend of mine was behind me. So she she realized that I was fainting, and she put her arms out, caught me and dragged me down to the principal's office. And when they got there, they just said Nicole passed out to help her. So they I mean, obviously the principal's office had everything that they needed. But yeah, I mean, the kids were giving me sugar or anything, but it also, if I needed to excuse myself in class by the teachers, or let me go to the bathroom whenever I wanted to. I was allowed to have sugar at my desk if I wanted to, you know, and everybody just knew it's not like they helped. But they also didn't make a big deal out of it. If I if I needed something.

Scott Benner 11:36
I see. Being from Canada, does that change how the healthcare system works for you?

Nicole 11:40
Well, yeah, so I am in Ontario specifically. And we have, obviously good health health coverage here. And when I was young, I was always on my parent's health care plan as well. So you know, hospital visits, things like that were never an issue getting supplies access to supplies were never an issue, it just was generally covered, became a bit of a problem. When it came time to go on the pump. I went on the pump at 18. So I mean, that's going back again, 20 years ago, I was probably pretty early, one of the early adopters of an insulin pump. At that point, I remember it being a little bit tricky, trying to figure out which company was going to cover what and you had to apply for one program to cover some of your you know, one of your insurance plans with cover some of the supplies and some of them were covered in a different way. So I mean, it's still a bit of a challenge to figure out how you're going to get your supplies covered. But I mean, all of my supplies get paid for I don't pay for anything out of pocket.

Scott Benner 12:44
It's different province to province, I guess I should say. I should probably say like province, but like from province to province. It's different, right?

Nicole 12:51
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So Ontario has a pretty good, a pretty good health care plan. I think Alberta is up there with one of the better ones. They're pretty advanced in terms of what gets covered by the government. And then what gets covered privately as well.

Scott Benner 13:07
Do you recall what your first pump was? What brand it was? Yeah, I've

Nicole 13:10
never moved from Medtronic. I've been on Medtronic the whole time.

Scott Benner 13:13
Okay. Oh, all right. So yeah.

Nicole 13:15
So when I was young, I remember when it was time for a pump. You know, I was, I was not a good diabetic. When I was in high school, I did a lot of, you know, lying and sneaking food and all of that stuff. I wasn't good at it. And I remember going to the doctor's office, and the doctor had said, my mom had said to him at that point, I couldn't tell you what my agencies were, but I know they were bad. And I remember my mom saying to him, you know, what, what do you suggest we do? Like I'm at a loss. I don't know what else to do. And he kind of threw his hands up in the air. And he's like, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know. She just she's kind of beyond help. And my mom said, Well, that's not an option. We're not just gonna give up. She said, I've been reading a lot about these insulin pumps. What do you think about that? And he said, Oh, no, they're useless waste of time. Don't even bother. My mom again was like, that's also not good enough. So she switched it and knows immediately we went to find an endocrinologist that believed in insulin pumps and I was transferred to a program where they very quickly put me on a put me on the pump. So at the time, I think they had Medtronic animus and there was a third one, I can't remember what it was. I think Medtronic is the only one still hanging around. But anyway, I went on Medtronic right away. And and I've never switched. You said

Scott Benner 14:38
something a minute ago. I want to ask you about Yeah, I hear a lot of like, a lot of adults use this phrase. Like I wasn't a good diabetic, right. When you say that? I do you mean good. Like good at it. We're good. We're good. Like your intentions for it. That makes sense.

Nicole 14:55
Like yeah, it does me i Yeah. Again, I think about that the clinic that I was And there was there were good diabetics, and there were bad diabetics. And it was there was always sort of this, like, if you didn't test your blood sugar's enough, if you didn't, you know, do your injections on time, if you there was lots of reasons why they would kind of say you're, you know, you're being bad. I think there was a bit of shame to it.

Scott Benner 15:19
Yeah, a lot. It's what it sounds like. But it's the sort of it's the things. So that's the

Nicole 15:23
thing. It's the actionable items, I was always, you know, I It's not like I was wildly out of control. But sometimes I would forget to test sometimes I would eat and forget to give insulin, you know, things like that I wasn't great at carb counting. So there was lots of things that I think I felt like I was being bad at. And when we switched to the other clinic, I remember going in and seeing this doctor for the first time and we sat down and I sat in the office and I kind of cried, I was like, I know that I'm bad. And I'm sorry for being bad. And I just I don't know how to be better.

Scott Benner 16:02
The contour next gen blood glucose meter is incredibly accurate. It's got an easy to read screen, it fits well in your hand. And it features Second Chance test strips, contour next.com/juicebox. At this link, you'll learn all about the contour meters, find other links where you can buy them online, that the meters and the test strips, and did you know that those things may be cheaper in cash than you're paying now for other stuff through your insurance, that's actually true, you should check on that as well. Contour Next One comm forward slash juice box. It's a fantastic website. It's a weird thing to say about a website for a glucose meter. But it tells you everything you want to know gives you all the links you need. It's easy to read, everything's right there. It's the meter my daughter uses. It's accurate. I trust it contour next one.com/juicebox. Speaking of things that I trust, the Omni pod is a device that my daughter has been wearing since she was four years old, she is now 19 She's worn an omni pod every day for all of that time has been nothing but a friend to us in this journey. And there are a couple of unique reasons why I think you would enjoy it too. For one, there's no tubing for another, you can wear it while you're showering or swimming without having to disconnect. If you play a sport, you can leave it on there too. There's no tubing to get caught. And no bulky punk. Like you know, on a belt or strap to your pants or whatever. You don't have to stuff something in your bra. I know how people have to get around with these two bombs. That problem doesn't exist with the on the pod. Also, you're gonna want to check into Omni pods options, you can get the Omni pod dash, or the Omni pod five, one runs from an algorithm and makes decisions for you. And one is more of what we might call an OG insulin pump. Either one is a fantastic choice, Omni pod.com/juice box head over there now, I think I think I think I think you may be able to get a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod, you have to go check it out. The links fantastic Omni pod.com/juice box when you use the links, you're supporting the Juicebox Podcast and helping to keep these episodes free.

Nicole 18:19
And she looked at me and she goes, honey, it's not your fault it if you're not having good blood sugars, or if your agency isn't right, you have to understand that there's a whole team behind you. And it's all of our faults. We're not doing our jobs either. Don't blame yourself for it. And it was the first time anybody had ever been

Scott Benner 18:37
shared the responsibility with you. Yeah, exactly. And at that point,

Nicole 18:40
I was 18 I'd spent almost my whole life being told that I was bad at it.

Scott Benner 18:46
No, you're fine. What I was gonna say is that your first doctor was bad at it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you're following the lead, right? If you're being coached and your coach isn't good, and so your your results are what I mean, it's, it's like eating right? What do they say? Like you are what you eat, right? So he's, he's the food you're eating his information and you're getting, you know, stomach cramps and, and bloating. And that's just because he sucks. So so. So when you move to this other person, and you open up to them, and they they respond by by sharing the blame, or the burden, I guess, honestly, do you make a shift there

Nicole 19:27
that at that point, then I went on to that they got me right away onto the pump. And that was a huge game changer for me. And I did I became very interested in what my blood sugar's were I got interested in keeping good notes. And I just Yeah, I did. I took much more of an interest to it. And I just it there wasn't again, there wasn't any shame anymore. So I did spend a lot of time as a kid. Like I said to If I forgot to test sometimes I would just fill in the numbers or fill in the blanks, you know, I'd be getting ready to go to clinic and I would bring out my chart with all of my blood sugar's written on it, and it would, and they'd have a bunch of holes. And I would just fill them in. Like, I think today, I must have been 5.6. Just put in numbers, that sounded good. And that made me feel good. The doctors obviously knew better, I'm sure they're looking at my blood sugar's going, there's no way you're running a whatever, a one C, and you're saying that you're five all the time?

Scott Benner 20:29
Yeah. But so, you know, it's just, I know that we think that our lives are this like, snowflake, you know, and we're making all these decisions and shaping ourselves, etc. But when you're kids, even when you're an adult, like you are shaped by the things around you, the, you know, the input that comes from other people, expectations that are set, you know, milestones, following through like that stuff, like someone easily could have set different expectations for you. Now, I don't know that it doesn't mean you would have reached them. Because you might not have been getting good, you know, advice from your physician. But at least it doesn't take that much to set someone up with a reasonable expectation and a reasonable plan, and let them see even a reasonable amount of success so that they can they can believe in those things, and then continue to apply them and multiply. And yeah, it just it's kind of obvious need to hear you talk about it. Not neat. Because it was because it was your life, but But it's interesting to hear you talk about it like how like a simple little thing like that. And not for anyone listening like Not, not like unreasonable expectations, like every test has to be 100. And you need to be taller and prettier and faster, like not all that just within your own thing in your own. Yeah,

Nicole 21:55
yes, let's make this attainable. Let's try for something attainable. And yeah, I spent a lot of time feeling like it. I couldn't reach their goals. They were just impossible. They felt so far away. And so at some point, you kind of go, Well, why bother? Yeah, and I'm never gonna get there.

Scott Benner 22:13
Honestly, thank God for your mom's reaction. Because his the new goal that the first doctor set for you was very attainable, which was failure failure. He was he was telling you give up. Yeah, your dad. Oh, you easily could have meant that. You don't I mean, and she steps up and says we're not going to do that.

Nicole 22:31
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thank God for my mom was right, because she spent she did she was she really pushed? She was like, again, that answer is not good enough. And I'll go find somebody who has the answer I'm looking for.

Scott Benner 22:43
Where do you think she What do you think she learned that? What did she wrestle polar bears professionally? I don't know, trout fishermen. But with that she did she catch trout right out of the river. But they're so funny.

Nicole 22:56
She, again, when I think back, she was so forward thinking in a lot of her ways. And, you know, she was really, like, I had diabetes through the 80s and early 90s. She had a pager. So if things went, if things went crazy while I was at school, they could page her, which the only people that had pagers back then were doctors and drug dealers

Scott Benner 23:18
and drug dealers. That's exactly my mom. And my mom,

Nicole 23:21
she carried a pager around. Again, I said that thing about the Halloween. I mean, that was very different. I just, I think for her, she always just, you had a podcast a couple of weeks ago that I listened to where they talked about just this idea of like, not being held back, like diabetes wasn't going to hold me back. And I think she just always felt like that, like, this will just be as normal as possible. And we'll be, we'll all be as normal as possible. But yeah, but at the same time, healthcare is critically important. And so we'll do whatever we have to do in order to make sure she's healthy.

Scott Benner 23:57
Yeah. And I guess the fully pack in the context like you, you were diagnosed at a time where management was not terrific. Like, you know, the options weren't really like, yeah, nearly what they are now, obviously, and maybe for the doctor, was he an older man? Do you remember?

Nicole 24:13
Yeah, he was. Yeah, I had a my first endo was actually a really compassionate lovely man. But he ended up I think, moving to a moving to a different job. I think he was moved somewhere out west to work at a at a university or something out there. Anyhow, so I ended up with this new doctor and he came along while I was in high school. So I'd been at that point, I'd had diabetes for quite a long time. And but yeah, he was an older man. In fact, shortly after I left from that clinic and found a new Endo. I heard that he had passed away so he wasn't he was much older and didn't have a very again forward thinking mentality,

Scott Benner 24:53
but was at least kind. Exactly yeah, yes. Yeah, little kindness doesn't hurt to call you No, no. No. How you doing? You said you were nervous at the beginning isn't getting better?

Nicole 25:04
Yeah, thank you good. Is it good? Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:06
you're doing great. Okay, so, I mean, not that I need this to be like after dark material, but I feel like there's a story in here and it's part of it. And you feel more comfortable. It's interesting. When you were being more like just anecdotal and telling a bigger story, you wandered. But when you start talking about details, you're much more focused. So I feel I feel like we want to, like, do that, like, kind of go that way. So you've, you make it through, you know, make it through the first doctor. Next doctor helps you get the pump. And how old were you when you got the pump?

Nicole 25:43

I was 18 years old. I remember, just towards the end of high school,

Scott Benner 25:47
and you were leaving high school with what intentions?

Nicole 25:51
So I was off to university, I was ready to go, I had been working at a part time job that I really loved. And when I was getting ready to leave, he said to me, Well, so what are your plans for the future? What do you want to do with your life? And I said, Oh, God, I have no idea. And he said, Well, I said, to be honest, I'd like to own your he was a bakery I worked at I said one day, I want to own your bakery. And he goes, Well, you know what, the University of Guelph has a really great hospitality program. Why don't you get into that? And one day, come back and we'll talk. And so I did. So I went to a Hospitality and Tourism Program. It's a university degree anyway.

Scott Benner 26:30
Did you come back and, and vicious takeovers Miss Baker?

Nicole 26:38
Back. As far as I know, he still owns it. It's still there. It's been it's forever.

Scott Benner 26:45
So when you head off to this, when you head off to university with your new pump and your diet and your new diabetes, like ideas, how do you make How do you make out through those years?

Nicole 26:57
Um, so I think that's where I was going to talk about some of the kind of, you know, I guess after dark topics that we were going to talk about my willingness, I guess, to play around with alcohol, for sure. It was, I was not afraid of what was going to happen if I drank too much if I, you know, passed out from alcohol it. When I went into university, I was ready to have some fun. I never played with drugs. It was never on my list of things to do. I smoked a bit of pot, but that was about it. And I didn't generally like the person I became when I smoked weed. So I had stopped but

Scott Benner 27:35
who did you become when you smoked weed? Oh, so that was a federally poll. That was a very fun noise. You went you wouldn't? Let me tell you.

Nicole 27:51
I am generally a very kind and very patient. Calm, friendly. I always want people to be happier. Tell me, you know, and I would turn into the Hulk. It was I would rage I would get so angry. And you know, I couldn't stand my friends that were giggling. They'd be smoking pot. You know how they get the giggles and I would be like, shut up. I hated life. Why are you laughing so much? Nothing is funny. I just I would rage and I did it a few times. And I thought I don't like this version of me. I'm not doing I

Scott Benner 28:25
can't believe your friends like you did it again.

Nicole 28:28
I know. Because they were giggly and high. They had a good time with it. They realized how upset it made me

Scott Benner 28:35
it made you so you. So they lost their inhibitions in one way, but you lost yours in a different way.

Nicole 28:41
I couldn't be nice anymore.

Scott Benner 28:44
So here are so here's my question, Nicole. Are you nice? Or do you have a lot of rage inside of you? And that helped you let it out?

Nicole 28:52
Oh, yeah, I have a lot of rage inside of me. I'm generally I you know, wake up most days at 100 and have to kind of call myself down. I don't know why I am I'm generally a pretty angry person. But I yeah, maybe that's it. It just exposed.

Scott Benner 29:11
What was your I didn't like this is what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking like you, you're relaxed. You're like, well, now I don't have to pretend to like these modes

Nicole 29:23
very live a very lonely life.

Scott Benner 29:29
So what is there something you can point to in your life that made you angry?

Nicole 29:34
No, I really, I don't know. I don't think that there's anything specific specific. No, no, I had a pretty I had a pretty normal childhood. Like, my parents were together until they split up when I was maybe 13. Like I said little country school knew I had lots of friends. Very popular. I there was nothing that attributed to the rage. I'm not really sure where it came from. So he Yeah, I think

Scott Benner 30:01
as an adult, you still have it.

Nicole 30:05
Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 30:07
Is there anything you do to try to like, let the pressure off once in a while?

Nicole 30:12
Yes and no, like I'm trying now to do. So like I said, I love listening to your podcasts. There's a bunch that I listened to including a bunch on how to overcome some of those things. So just, you know, journaling and things like that. I play around with

Scott Benner 30:30
it's not it's not anxiety, right, Nicole? It's just you have a low tolerance for

Nicole 30:36
Ah, yeah, I do it which is funny because again, like, I have a lot of people say like, you're the most patient person I've ever met. Like, you have such a you have you let people walk all over you and you let it you know, it takes a lot to finally make me explode. But when I do I go once I explode, I really go. Okay, let's

Scott Benner 31:00
let me ask you a couple of questions. Have you ever had your thyroid checked?

Nicole 31:04
Yeah, I'm on thyroid medication. I

Scott Benner 31:06
am. What's your TSH? Do? You know?

Nicole 31:08
I think the last one was two. I had my bloodwork done back in.

Scott Benner 31:13
Good. Good, good, good. Religion. None, none. Little, little interesting. Hold on a second. Did anything happen in your life that was traumatic, even to another person in your family that you wish wouldn't have happened? Car accident, like anything?

Nicole 31:32
No, nothing, nothing like that. I think some of maybe some of my trauma again comes back to the diabetes, you know, as much as I say, so I suffered from a lot of really bad low blood sugars when I was a kid. I don't think I've ever heard you interview a person. That hallucinated with Lowe's. I don't know if you have but you are one of them. I full blown hallucinations with a low blood sugar like so as

Scott Benner 31:58
you describe that to me, please.

Nicole 32:00
So I don't know. They must have been seizures. i We didn't call them seizures. We called them reactions. They were generally middle of the night when I listened to your episode with Arden kind of describing her her seizure and the shifting the room kind of the jumping, I think she called it. For me, it was always the shifting. So I could, the floor would suddenly shift and I'd feel kind of unattached or, you know, off balance. Yeah. And that but a lot of times I would wake up in the night with these reactions, which were like I said, full blown hallucination. So I would start to see things in the, in the bedroom. And, like terrifying things. As a kid, I don't know how you describe them, like monsters and snakes and bugs and all the things that you're afraid of, and they would all be in my bedroom. And I would start to scream and cry, of course. And my parents would read in and they would also be these horrible creatures, you know, like terrifying monsters are covered in bugs covered in snakes, I just remember so many times they would come in and they would have to try to you know, get me sugar and whatever way they could, but without seeing them. You know, I couldn't look at them because they were so terrifying. But they had to, they had to grab me and hold me down to get generally they did corn syrup. That's what they would use to get in my mouth because at least then some of it would be absorbed through your cheeks, my cheeks and then I mean corn syrup was less likely to be spit everywhere. Like it's kind of hard to spit out syrup. But it was you know, thick and when went right in. So anyways, but there was a lot of hallucinations. My mom used to tell the story about one time she came in and the room was full of. According to me, the room was full of flies. There were flies everywhere. So she grabbed my she sat me down on her lap, and she shoved my head over her shoulder so I couldn't see her face anymore. And my dad was on the other side, jamming the corn syrup in. And then they waited a little bit and my twitching slowed down and they realized that it was probably over so they kind of pulled me back so I could look at at my mom again. And I looked at her face that I slapped her. Which one was that for? And I said there was a bug on your face. She still had a fly on her face according I mean, she did it but that's what I saw was this. Did you ever

Scott Benner 34:23
did you ever hear your parents say to each other? Oh, great thing we had kids. What a decision.

Nicole 34:31
I can't imagine being my poor mother being pregnant with the second one going. I think we made a we made a mistake.

Scott Benner 34:39
We made a mistake. Can low blood sugar cause psychosis? It is well known that hypoglycemia can lead to psychiatric symptoms ranging from delirium and confusion states of psychosis. So that's not unusual, but you're right. I've never heard anybody talk about it.

Nicole 34:57
Yeah. And I thought that it was very common, but the more I listened to your show, the more I realized that people just people that wasn't normal.

Scott Benner 35:07
Were they're not admitting to it in a call,

Nicole 35:09
or they're not talking about it. Maybe they don't have any memories of it. But it was very scary as a kid, it

Scott Benner 35:13
was very, very Yeah. Listen, I didn't I don't have diabetes. But soon after my parents, like split up, I was probably in my early teens, like 1314 around there. And I would have a reoccurring nightmare that a giant talking Spider was up in the corner of my room, and it would tell me it was going to kill my parents. And one night, I got out of bed and felt like I had gone downstairs, like to use the bathroom. And I was in the bathroom. And I thought I was awake. And but the Spider was still there. Right? And then I woke myself up and it was gone. So I somehow like I somehow in a dream move through the house and I used to I did sleep walk a little when I was a kid. I don't do it anymore, actually. But I I wonder, like looking back on that I think I might have slept walk to the bathroom, and then continue the dream continued. And then when I woke up, it was over. But so anyway, big spider, not flies, but I'm with you. Yeah,

Nicole 36:19
it was. Yeah, it was always and I mean, again, they changed it. It changed. It wasn't always flies or bugs. It was like, sometimes they were monsters. And my parents would come in as these big like hairy looking monsters, you know, with big teeth, and they'd be growling at me as they were rushing towards me to try to take care of me. Oh,

Scott Benner 36:38
my God, that's well, that's okay. So let's call that traumatic. Yeah.

Nicole 36:44
I mean, I had a, and I mean, there was a lot of incidents of that when I was little, and they obviously slowed down as I got older and things got better. And I was able to control things a little bit more. But the last time I had a seizure, I was six I was while I was 15. It was just before my 16th birthday, and I had woken up in the morning and I went into take a shower. And I hadn't bothered testing my blood sugar's yet because I was, you know, not worried about it. Anyhow, I got up I took the shower, I got out of the shower. I remember standing there in the bathroom. And when I was in high school, like lots of the kids were candy necklaces, remember candy necklaces, of course. And so my sister used to wear them to school. So she had a couple of them sitting on the counter and at that point I realized like should I think I'm low so I started eating through her candy necklace and it didn't I didn't get there fast enough. I I've passed out and see Easton. Anyway, that that one again scared me for a long time that I was really terrified about going low for night and going low early in the morning. And so oftentimes I would run my blood sugar's higher because I didn't want all that

Scott Benner 37:56
to happen. Yeah. Hey, I have to ask you the kid was wearing the candy necklace. Yeah, she used to wear them and you wouldn't add her to like a zombie to get to it. No,

Nicole 38:06
she wasn't wearing Oh in the morning so she's like taking it off to go to bed and they were just sitting on the bathroom counter heard I shared a bathroom

Scott Benner 38:14
I was had a beautiful picture in my head of you like basically be like brains and coming at her like kids like why am I friends with Nicole feel way better story? Yeah, if you want to retell it where she's wearing the necklace I mean I'm okay with it.

Nicole 38:30
I'm naked fresh out of the shower and stumbling out or going give me your necklace your necklace

Scott Benner 38:34
that's terrible. Oh my god so you had your blood sugar was bouncing then? Cuz you don't you don't you didn't have low Awan it's not like you got low a lot because you were keeping some like, like the stability at a lower number. So you were jumping up and jumping down constantly. Yeah, yeah. What kind of food did you eat back then?

Nicole 38:54
Anything and everything there was never a limitation. I mean that's not true. That's not true at all. When I was young we did we were on the My parents were allowed to give me like I was allowed to starches and two fruits and one protein at dinner say something like that. And they knew that a starch was like a piece of bread. One starch was a half a cup of potatoes they so they it was carb counting but not really. I mean we weren't looking at the numbers but we were looking at the values of food and but I was allowed to eat whatever I wanted. We were restricted in terms of quantities. And I was like I said restricted in terms of meal times at at breakfast, lunch and dinner I could eat whatever fell within those values. Outside of that I wasn't allowed to snack unless it was kind of free foods. So then I did a lot of like lots of proteins. My My mom always had like, cheese sticks or you know coming home from school we would eat Cheese or like pepper rats or you know, different smoked meat, things like that there was always like meats and cheeses that we would snack on. But that was the snack you couldn't do with crackers because crackers had carbs and carbs would mess it up.

Scott Benner 40:13
Yeah, Arden loves to. Like she hasn't done this in a while because she's in school. But there are times when she'll put together a plate looks like she's at a at a party by herself. It has grapes and cheese and crackers and pepperoni. Stuff like that. Yeah, she just disappears with it. And sure coutries. Exactly. In her bedroom. Very, very fancy. Although I don't know how fancy it is. I think the crackers are rats. But that's not right, by the way, are not easy to Bolus for when you take the crackers and then the grapes. And then add the protein and the cheese. It's a it's a task to Bolus. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, actually,

Nicole 40:50
well, at the time. I mean, we didn't really we understood the like I said the values of food, but we didn't understand how they all work together. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, even as a kid, I was allowed to eat pizza. But I don't remember how it affected me or anything. Like I

Scott Benner 41:07
actually have a recording coming up in I think it'll be out in April. It's with a big stick a health influencer, who like normally, um, I don't know, like, I don't know much about it. But a couple of listeners were like, hey, look, this lady's talking about food impacts. And she's wearing like a glucose monitor. And she doesn't have diabetes, but she's looking at the impacts of different foods and talking about about them. Now in her context. She's talking about how to eat them in certain orders where it benefits your body. But I thought, this will be interesting. Like she's got she's got this perspective. And yet, she's not that she doesn't have diabetes. So like, I'm like, I'm gonna ask her to be on so she's she's going to come on, we're going to talk about your state. Yeah, about that.

Nicole 41:52
Well, and I think, like, I don't really limit what I eat. Now, either. There's a lot of foods I just can't be bothered with, because I don't I don't know how to Bolus for them. And I don't want to find out. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah, we had a party. So I own a restaurant. We had a party there a few weeks ago, where at the end of it, they they came up to me, and you know, thanks so much for having us. And here we thought you'd like one of the cupcakes that we had made. And I was like, Oh, thank you so much. And I kind of left it on the on the counter. And when my on one of the servers came in, I said, Oh, if you want that cupcake, go ahead. I won't be eating it. He was like, Yeah, I guess it would pretty much kill you, wouldn't it? And I was like, Well, no, it won't kill me. But I'll be honest, I don't even know where to begin.

Scott Benner 42:38
might ruin the next three or four hours.

Nicole 42:41
Like, it might not kill me. But I said, Okay, for fun. Tell me how many carbohydrates are in this cupcake? And he's like, I don't know. 95? And I'm like, great. I would have maybe guessed 40. So yeah, you probably would have killed me.

Scott Benner 42:56
Well, yeah, no, I take your point. Like some of them are, it feels a little unknowable. Like, especially when someone just hands you something you have no context, like,

Nicole 43:04
here it is. Okay, and I just yeah, you're right. I think there's a lot of times, I just can't be bothered with the headache of trying to figure it out.

Scott Benner 43:10
I think interesting, too, like a cupcake is an example. It could hit. It's gonna say something that's gonna sound opposite, but it could hit less than the carbs indicate. Like, if you ever had a situation like that, where you like, look something up, and you're like, This is what is this 100 carbs for this. And, and then you later realize that it only hit like it was 50 or, or something like that. And it does happen. You know,

Nicole 43:37
it happens a lot. And so my, my partner now is a as a chef, and so he does a lot of I mean, I like a queen at home. But anyhow, he made Detroit style pizza the other day, which is that big, thick, heavy crust. And it was so delicious. But I looked at it and I was like, Oh my God, I don't even know where to start. So I Bolus for it. And I had such a beautiful straight line. And I was so proud and so happy. And I went in. I have a good friend of mine who's a type one. And so I was telling them the story and his girlfriend said, well, for curiosity sake. You know, how much did you Bolus so they said, Well, I looked at it. I thought it was probably 40 grams. I was

Scott Benner 44:21
gonna say 40 for a piece of square right? About 65

Nicole 44:27
and 40 was just beautiful and perfect. Nice. I said usually when I eat pizza I'm I Bolus for about 25 grams of carbs per slice. And she said that's so funny because the the guy the her partner, he he generally Bolus is 40 grams of carbs per slice. And then I laughed. I said, I wonder which one of us is right, because we're both Oh, which one of us is right in terms of the number. One of us is right in terms of our car in terms of our ratios? Which one of us has got it here?

Scott Benner 44:58
Well, that's such a sale. The end point really Nicole, because what's right is

Nicole 45:03
what works? Well, exactly. Yeah. And if both of us are hitting straight lines, then does it matter?

Scott Benner 45:10
Not at all. Literally not at all. Oh, so yeah, it's exciting to hear somebody talking about that way. Because it because for the people listening, it doesn't matter. If if this thing, whatever you're eating is 10 carbs, but it hits you like it's 15. And it hits somebody else. Like it's eight and it hits somebody else. Like it's 20 Well, then that's what it is. Right? You know, and, and fighting reality by pointing at a number is, I think part of how people make themselves cuckoo with all this. Right? Yeah. So all right, anyway,

Nicole 45:43
yeah, I had, I had an appointment last week with a new nurse. So I went on the new Medtronic pump about a year ago. So it's got it's the full closed loop with the CGM and everything. They're all connected. The Medtronic 770. So and then the nurse that I was meeting with left the practice, and they never reassigned me to another one. So I went a long time without seeing anybody, and they call me and they said, Oh, we've got a Medtronic rep in did you want to come in and meet with us? And I said, Yeah, sure. That'd be great, actually. So I went, I went in and met with them. And at one point, she, she was looking at something I forget what she was what she was pointing out, and she said, your you know, your numbers are great. Your time and range is fabulous. If you're striving for perfection, here's where I would maybe adjust it. And I said, Yeah, I get it. And her and I got into a bit of an argument. Oh, that's what it was over. I said, sometimes for dinner, I might not Bolus, the right amount. Like let's say I look at food. And I think, oh, this could be between 30 and 35 grams of carbs. I think I'll Bolus 30 today because I don't want to go low later. And she was like, that's, that's not the right way to do it. You Bolus for what is in it? I was like, Well, yeah, that's fine and good. But sometimes I don't want to go low later. And she said to me, she's like, your, all of your problems are purely psychological. You're I mean, you could be you could be wonderful. If if you stop letting your brain make the decisions. You know what I mean? Is that

Scott Benner 47:15
because you don't get it? Yeah. Is that because you don't actually get low later, you just are afraid you're going to? Yeah, yeah, from when you were younger? You should, you should have told her listen, if I get low, you're gonna turn into the Abominable Snowman. And there's gonna be worm scary. There's gonna be worms coming out of your nose. And I just can't do that anymore. But so so you really are afraid of the insulin a little bit still?

Nicole 47:45
Very much so that I'm, I'm very, very afraid of insulin yet. But not on basic. Very, very. I'm aggressive. And I have, and I have good control. But I yeah, there's I'm still afraid of the lows. I really am. I'm afraid of. I think I'm afraid of not waking up from a low.

Scott Benner 48:04
Well, yeah, yeah. Listen, you've been talking for 45 minutes. I think people listening have checked their blood sugar or their children's blood sugar five times since you've been taught. I'll be like, let me just take a look

Nicole 48:17
at the terrifying to make

Scott Benner 48:19
sure that the worst. Want to make sure I'm not going to see a zombie Hold on a second.

Speaker 1 48:26
Well, listen, you had a specific, yeah, this specific experience, and your body obviously doesn't do well with it. But have you had that experience as an adult?

Nicole 48:38
No, never. I've never I have not hallucinated as an adult. I had one terrible low in university that I remember the room shifting. I mean, again, there are times where I still have those those kinds of broom shift blows where the floor feels like it's falling out. I had one awful experience. A few years ago, I was I always call it the my ex husband left me for left me for dead on the kitchen floor. We were I had been out. We had been out drinking and partying at a friend's place and he had left before I had and then I called him to come back and get me and in the meantime, he was turning around to come and pick me up and I ended up getting a ride home with somebody else. And he was like, fair enough very mad at me. And when we got home, I guess I so I had got home before he had and I walked in the front door and likely as a result of drinking and everything else, I think I went to take my shoes off and I passed out on the kitchen floor. And so when he got home, I was passed out and he quite literally stepped over me to go to bed and left me there. When I woke up. I probably will maybe four or five hours later, and at the time I was on the Libra so I scanned my sensor and it said I had hit the low you know how It doesn't read any more. It just says low. Yeah, I'd hit the low at the point of which we were coming home and stayed there all night long. And so yeah, I always, I mean, that was the worst one I've had recently I woke up and luckily, my purse was right next to me because we've just gotten home and I had gummy bears in there. And I swallowed a bunch of those before I managed to get up and go to the couch, but

Scott Benner 50:27
I'm gonna. I'm gonna say something crazy here. You didn't see any hallucinating at that point. No, I wasn't listening. I was just passed out. Is it possible? And this is gonna sound really crazy. But is it possible your parents actually were monsters? And you could only see them like that when your blood sugar was low? Because it hasn't happened since then. Can you please go to go to your your mom and dad? Are they alive? So? Yeah, would they would they come back together for an experiment? I'd like to get your blood sugar low. And I want to see if they're monsters right now. No, I mean, a little bit. I really do a little bit want to know.

Nicole 51:13
Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't remember. I mean, again, I had a good relationship with both of them. So I can't imagine

Scott Benner 51:22
why. So no, I'm teasing you. I didn't mean like human monsters. I meant, like really like furry things that just

Nicole 51:32
it was the 80s hair was different back then.

Scott Benner 51:37
I don't know. They were. I don't know. I just I got this. I just hit the all sudden I was like, What if our parents are actually creatures? And this is why that's what she was saying. And I mean, the flies. Makes sense, right? Because monsters would have flies around them. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm very worried now about the one. Conspiracy theorists listening right now is like, you know, I listen to this podcast today. This lady's parents were sub humanoids. And she did.

Nicole 52:08
I'll get tracked out, you know why if all of a sudden you stopped seeing my name on the Facebook group, you know, I've been like, sound out and snap me up. Those Those spy balloons that are flying all over the world right now that that one's gonna come and hit my house in a minute. Down and suck up the alien life form that I am.

Scott Benner 52:27
I think everyone should be appreciative that I was not so ham fisted as to call them Sasquatch is because you're in Canada. I stayed. I stayed off the Canadian thing. I one thing I mentioned earlier, but that's it. Pretty much. I've been pretty good.

Nicole 52:41
Why you don't have Sasquatches in the US? I thought I think

Scott Benner 52:44
we call them Bigfoot. You call them Sasquatch? No. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's it.

Nicole 52:51
My boyfriend calls them Sam squatches his son will just oh, if he ever listens to this podcast. He'll be so upset that I said Sam squinch on here. How old is the the son is 1212 and he always says that he'll go oh, I think we found a Sasquatch. I think we're gonna go to Sam square and Trenton saying it by mistake. Now he does it on purpose just to torment him.

Scott Benner 53:15
Oh, Trailer Park Boys, right. Yeah, I got I got it. I got it. Okay. Yeah. Well, he won't be upset about that. He's not like we call that his name. And like,

Nicole 53:26
he doesn't want to listen to a podcast about diabetes. I don't

Scott Benner 53:29
think he I don't think so. You don't think that's what's five year olds or

Nicole 53:34
year old? A 12 year old boy with literally no experience and except for mine.

Scott Benner 53:38
So we're I feel like we're dancing around something. You have an ex husband? Who left you on the floor? Left me on the floor? Is this not a great experience being married?

Nicole 53:49
No, no, it wasn't a good one. There was a there was a few incidents of you know, kind of emotional abuse like that. I would have called that emotional abuse. Because I think when you do that to somebody, it just I realized that at that point that you know that it wasn't going to be fixed. The marriage was long gone. Yeah. Anyhow, yeah, we separated actually just before COVID. Just before we went into our first lockdown here in Ontario,

Scott Benner 54:15
did you like say to yourself, oh, I can't be in here together. Let's do it now.

Nicole 54:20
No, I really, I didn't believe that COVID was a thing. I really thought that people were being ridiculous. And, and I couldn't I remember somebody saying it to me one time, like, have you heard of this virus that's about to come in and shut down the whole world. And I laughed, and I went, Oh, you're so full of it. There's no way of viruses coming in and shutting down the world. Are you insane? Like that doesn't make any sense. And yeah, two weeks later, then boom, I but I really didn't believe that it was a problem. And even when the government told us we had to close our doors, like I said, I'm a restaurant owner. So we had to close the doors and we weren't allowed to have people in and for the first couple of weeks, I just thought it was all a bunch of hot like whatever. on earth are we doing? Why are we so afraid of this? It just, to me, it just seemed wild. But

Scott Benner 55:05
there have been three pandemics since the 1900. Right? Yeah, right. This happens all the time. You just right. Yeah. I know. I

Nicole 55:15
understand. Trust me, it was crazy.

Scott Benner 55:18
It does sound crazy. It mean when you live your whole life, and it hasn't happened. And it's just a story, like, you know, well,

Nicole 55:25
and when you have something like diabetes, and your parents become monsters, when you hallucinate, and yet, you can recover and rebound from that and go on to live a normal life, then why on earth are we so afraid of a coal you

Scott Benner 55:39
feel? You? I think just Yeah. Well, did you have you gotten COVID? Yeah, I had to change your mind if you had it. Yeah.

Nicole 55:50
I said afterwards. I'm like, Man, I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

Scott Benner 55:54
I did not enjoy my my one time I've had COVID at all. That was

Nicole 55:57
we were very careful. My partner has a daughter with disabilities. Actually, she has a different form of diabetes called diabetes. insipidus, which is so like, our bodies can't process the sugars and hers can't process sodium. But so we were very, very careful about what we were doing, you know, exposing anybody to any of that we were very close with, you know, wear our masks diligently and we were, you know, hand sanitizing like crazy. So, but I ended up catching it. I had no idea from where but yeah, it was miserable. no fun at all.

Scott Benner 56:28
May I took a sidebar here. diabetes. insipidus. In Sydney is a disorder of salt and water metabolism marked by intense thirst and heavy urination occurs when the body can't regulate how it handles fluid condition is caused by a hormonal abnormality and isn't related to diabetes. In addition to extreme for thirst, and heavy urination. Other symptoms may include getting up at night to urinate or Bedwetting, depending on the form of disorder treatments might include hormonal therapy, low salt diet or drinking more water. Very rare. 20,000 cases in the US per year. Wow,

Nicole 57:04
very, very rare. Yeah. So I'm very different so that it's not like, so she's regulated through fluids. And she does take an oral medication as well.

Scott Benner 57:17
And your partner only hangs out with people who have the word diabetes somehow involved.

Nicole 57:21
Yeah, he's he says that he's like, Oh, God, my diabetics, I can't even believe that I found another one. Just a different form.

Scott Benner 57:29
I mean, it's, it's interesting that it's called diabetes insipidus. And yet, it has nothing to do with diabetes.

Nicole 57:36
Well, so it's funny, I joined also a Facebook group for diabetes and separatists. And they are also outraged by the fact that they're called diabetics, because they don't they feel like that they're immediately assumed to have mellitus. And there, they want to rename diabetes and separatists to I forget what it is some sort of deficiency, instead, like the hormone that that they're deficient in, as opposed to being called

Scott Benner 58:06
everybody wants to rename something. You got what you think the Hashimotos people are excited, right? What's wrong with you? I have Hashimotos disease, right? Great. Like a guy named Smith couldn't figure that out to be him. But listen, I like I'm gonna pull one ad here for a minute, because I feel like you can substantiate my my thoughts that working in a restaurant is an orgy of alcohol and sex and the battery that happens after the place closes. Am I right? Yeah, I am. Right, right. Yes, yes. I knew it. People come on here and lie all the time about it, but I know. Okay, so what is it? Is it the schedule? Or does it attract a certain person?

Nicole 58:58
Yet, you have to be a certain kind of want to work in the restaurant industry. And we're all a very strange breed of people. But I think gluttons for punishment, for the most part, it is a incredibly hard job is physically demanding, generally long hours long days. And yet, I mean, we work when everybody else is off. So you don't go to a restaurant, generally, between nine and five. I mean, yeah, you might go out for lunch here and there. But usually it's the night times in the evenings and we work late hours, and I'm off today, like my Mondays and Tuesdays are my days off. I haven't seen a weekend, a real weekend in many, many years.

Scott Benner 59:36
And cocaine flows like water.

Nicole 59:37
Am I right? Well, yeah, so not in my restaurant? Of

Scott Benner 59:41
course not. Not yours. No, behind my back, right. Yeah,

Nicole 59:45
I always say that. I'm like, you know, if the restaurant industry has taught me anything, it's that there's a lot of people do cocaine and a lot of people cheat on their partners. Like there's a lot of adultery and there's a lot of cocaine. Just in general in the world, but

Scott Benner 1:00:01
no, well, yeah, there's

Nicole 1:00:02
way more than you thought in restaurants, of course.

Scott Benner 1:00:05
But yeah, I knew it see people because they got the thing going, right. You get to go to work, make money, you eat for free, and you get to have sex and drugs, and nobody knows about it.

Nicole 1:00:17
Right? It's totally normal. It's very, very normal. I used to work with a girl who said she bumped cocaine for breakfast, lunch and dinner. She didn't eat she said she was real thin when she first came to the industry, because that's all she did was cocaine.

Scott Benner 1:00:33
Did you hear when I interviewed the one girl and I asked her what her diet was like, and she said cocaine and and what what alcoholic she say? I can't think tequila she said. I said what's your what's your what's your diet like? And she says, like cocaine and tequila. She was not joking. And I was like, oh. So anyway, so when I'm what? I don't know. I feel so vindicated right now the call? I don't know.

Nicole 1:01:03
Well, then I'm glad I came on to do my job.

Scott Benner 1:01:06
Yeah, no, you really came through for me. This is lovely. I know two people who are chefs. And they're both out of their minds. Yeah.

Nicole 1:01:15
Yeah. Really, the hospitality industry is full of really crazy people. I mean, a lot of people get into it to start because it's good quick money. And you know, lots of people take up serving jobs or jobs when they're in high school and, and putting themselves through college or university but the the lifers the people that stay in the industry for life. Were were a special breed. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:36
Not not like you worked at a diner in 11th grade for a summer or something like that.

Nicole 1:01:40
Yeah, no, no, we're talking the Yeah, the people that do it

Scott Benner 1:01:43
for for life, so then they Adderall must be huge to

Nicole 1:01:46
again, maybe not not so much in my experience, but I again, like I said, I really stayed out of the drug scene. So yeah, I know that I've been around a lot of people that have but I it just was never anything that was tempting.

Scott Benner 1:01:57
No drugs for you. But you. You drink like it's a profession. Yeah, yeah, I still do. I

Nicole 1:02:03
drink a lot of alcohol. But I think I, again, I kind of attribute the drug fear back to the hallucinating as a kid. So I was never interested in dabbling. I mean, my ex husband loved mushrooms. And he was like, you know, it'd be so fun if we could get high on mushrooms together. And I always said, No, I don't. Why on earth would I want to hallucinate on purpose? I mean, I did it so often, when I was little that, I just can't imagine that it would be a pleasant experience.

Scott Benner 1:02:30
Yeah, I I'm starting to believe that. It's a very small number of people who aren't doing something altering seriously. And not not a judgement, by the way, just to just I'm starting to think that it's a thing we keep quieter than people give us credit for keeping quiet. It's just, you know, very, very interesting. Would you consider like your consumption of alcohol is it is as grand as it was in college or no, now?

Nicole 1:03:00
I Yep. Yeah, it is. So in a bit in a different way. So I, I drink every day, I come home from work and have a glass of wine or two, or a bottle every day.

Scott Benner 1:03:15
Sometimes I fill the bathtub, and I get in with a straw. And I know my bath is over when the wine is gone.

Nicole 1:03:25
But that said when I was in university, like my consumption was a lot but it was a lot, you know, at a time and I would I could get faced and blackout drunk and I wouldn't even think about it. That was that was my level of intoxication that those days don't happen anymore. It's not like I'm stumbling around the living room at night. Singing into my wineglass. You know what I mean? I enjoy

Scott Benner 1:03:48
sweet care. Can anyone hear this?

Nicole 1:03:51
I mean, don't get me wrong. If any of my friends listen to this episode. They're like, we've seen that version of you. And yeah, she does still exist. Don't pretend like you're all high and uppity and you know,

Scott Benner 1:04:02
but not grown that not an angry not angry when you're drunk though.

Nicole 1:04:07
No, not anymore.

Scott Benner 1:04:08
Not anymore.

Nicole 1:04:09
Well, maybe more of you trucks husband. I definitely was but no, not I generally don't get angry.

Scott Benner 1:04:15
Nicole, I think it's incumbent upon me to ask you if you've considered therapy.

I am in therapy. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. For sure. Of course. What Scott, you don't understand? I'm way better.

Nicole 1:04:33
No, no, no, there's definitely a therapist there.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
And so when you're talking to the therapist, you said earlier you couldn't pinpoint what happened. But do you just not want to share it with me and you know what it is? Or do you really not know? It's okay, if you really

Nicole 1:04:45
don't know, I really don't know what happened. Like and I've said that a couple of weeks ago to my partner I was like, I don't know whether they're, you know, I'm I really do believe that I live a life that points towards trauma of some kind, but I really don't know what it is Yeah, I mean, there's a lot there. There's a lot that I am angry and resentful for. But I think a lot of it happened kind of older. And while I was already an adult, my dad pieced out at 18. He was done with me at that point, we had a big falling out and, and then that was the end of my relationship with him. So we reconnected a couple of years ago. It's certainly not the relationship that a father and daughter should have. But again, I was 18 when it happened. So I think, you know, there's different forms, but I can't I can't figure out what happened when I was little little that would have pointed towards it.

Scott Benner 1:05:41
So I mean, is it as simple like, is it what they call daddy issues? Did you feel abandoned?

Nicole 1:05:46
Oh, I mean, I said yes. As a young adult and up until, yeah, I'll definitely definitely I had a good relationship with my dad. It was a really hurtful thing for him to leave. Yeah, it did. It made me really upset for many years.

Scott Benner 1:06:00
Well, I mean, I think that's what you're mad about my call? Yeah, maybe? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. Was your mom called to live with? Like, did you feel like you got left with the wrong person?

Nicole 1:06:13
No, no, not at all. Just my mom was always the caregiver. I mean, I remember my like I said, my mom was always the one at home when we were little and not. She was clearly the the better parent, she was the one that was she was clearly they definitely did not want to end up in my dad

Scott Benner 1:06:35
call. Are you letting us hear like 20% of your personality?

Nicole 1:06:43
Yes, I was gonna censor myself on this podcast. There's probably a bunch that could come out if we had more time. Maybe I should pour a glass of wine now and then you'll really see the true meat.

Scott Benner 1:06:54
Does your father work in the restaurant? No, Cody. Yeah,

Nicole 1:07:00
yeah, definitely.

Scott Benner 1:07:02
I'm getting it. I'm getting out. Okay. You know, I was thinking recently, if I shouldn't do a couple of episodes with people who are drunk Endor high. Like, like, tell them like you have to be altered to do the episode.

Nicole 1:07:18
I'm not gonna lie when I was getting ready to do this. And remember, I said at the beginning, I'm feeling a little nervous. The thought of having a glass of wine before we sat down and really did cross my mind. It's a little early in the day for that. And I didn't want to be shit faced by the time the kids come home from school.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
Can I ask an insensitive question? Yes. Do you think you're an alcoholic? Oh, yes. 100%. Okay. And are you in treatment for that? No, no.

Nicole 1:07:45
Okay. Well, I own a restaurant. I don't know if you caught that part.

Scott Benner 1:07:49
So are you trying to tell me that? This is a common place situation in your world? Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So, we're trying to are we trying to build the picture here that certain, I do agree that certain kinds of people go into certain kinds of industries, they they're drawn to them for, like, you know, for probably obvious reasons that we're not going to sit here and break down. So you're in that industry to begin with? I mean, because you went right away to college. And I don't know if you realize it, because it's so normal to me, you're like, I'm gonna go to college, and I'm gonna drink a lot. Like that was the plan. There are people who don't do that. But you you wouldn't think that you would think that. Everyone does that. Right?

Nicole 1:08:30
It's funny, because, again, I've heard when you talk, because you're not a drinker at all.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
No, you've had more. You've had more alcohol. You've had more alcohol. I would say this weekend, I've had my Yeah.

Nicole 1:08:44
Right. And that to me, just is is like, I don't understand it. Yeah, alcohol was, I guess, I suppose probably pretty prevalent my whole life. It was very common for my dad to drink. It was very even, you know, common for my mom to drink, not excessively for either of them. But alcohol was always around. Yeah. family functions when we were young, always there. Like I said, my dad hadn't been around for many years. And then when we finally reconnected, he and my sister and I sat down for dinner. And he's like, I just kind of want to get this all out of the way. He didn't really he wasn't very close with his family, either growing up, abandoned by his parents at a pretty young age. And he, so he didn't, I mean, I remember his mother as a kid, but not not being close with her or anything. So I guess he joined one of those like ancestry.com, or whatever they are, where you find out who all of your relatives are based on the DNA test. And so he discovered that his father had actually fathered up lots of children all over the country. Oh, and was all of a sudden exposed to all of these relatives. And he said, at that point, he goes, I've learned a lot about our family and our family history. I need you to understand our side of the family will die from self inflicted wounds. So alcohol addiction, cigarettes, drug addictions, things like that, that either will deteriorate your body or will, you know, outright kill you. That's, that's how we die. That's how this side of the family goes.

Scott Benner 1:10:21
Nicole, can I say something? Yes, we remember earlier, like an hour ago, when we were talking about how your doctor set up expectations for you and you follow them. Don't let that happen with this. There's no way people die. That's not true. There's there's things that people teach each other. And people have tendencies, but you can go against your tendencies. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Don't let somebody tell you that this is what happens. We have heart attacks in our 40s. Or we're all drunk or we're all this. It doesn't need to be that way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm not judging you. You can jump in with both feet if you want to. And it's cool with me. I honestly don't care what anybody does. I really, you know, I say that around eating with diabetes. And I wonder if people recognize I mean that for everything. Do not care what you do. It's fine. And I don't mean that, like, go ahead, do the wrong thing. I don't care. I mean, I think living let live I think, I think that everyone has a story that you don't know, and that everyone has things that they need, want desire, lean on, etc. And you can't judge them. And nobody, you know, you wouldn't want anybody judging you with the weird thing. You don't I mean, like, I'm sure right now, there's someone listening. It goes, this girl drinks too much. That person is probably selling pictures of their feet on the internet. So like, don't judge me, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's a by the way, I saw this boy. You know, those videos. There was that video, this one kid used to run up to people in like, $300,000 cars and be like, Oh, my God, I love your car. What do you do for a living? He was trying to get out. Right? You know, somebody came along and made these other videos. That was that where the guy is like, How much money do you have in your savings account? Something like that. And he goes up to this one kid. And I just want to say, I'm not judging him. But I didn't look at this kid and think this kid is a mover and a shaker. Like I you know, like he was, he was, slovenly, would be a way I would put it. I think he he maybe could have done a set up. He was uncapped. Anyway, if Sasquatch was a person, like he could play him in a movie, and the guy's like, How much money do you have in your savings account? And it's just something like $90,000 which I'm not gonna lie shocked me. And I was like, Huh, why? And he says, What do you do for a living? And this kid goes, I saw pictures of my feet on the internet.

Nicole 1:12:44
Oh my god.

Scott Benner 1:12:45
I was like, I am trying way too. I'm trying

Nicole 1:12:51
to say it like I think we're doing this wrong. You know, I worked really really hard for really not a lot of money.

Scott Benner 1:12:58
barely enough to buy wine.

Nicole 1:13:01
For my wife

Scott Benner 1:13:03
took the wine bill out would you own a summer house somewhere?

Nicole 1:13:08
Oh, I probably could buy now. Probably could I'm not gonna lie.

Scott Benner 1:13:13
Sweetheart. I gotta ask you a question. Where in Ontario are you? Are you more in like the Toronto we part of you more in the lake? Manitoba part?

Nicole 1:13:21
No, I'm more so our outside of Toronto. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:13:25
Trying to truck Toronto. Trying to get you to Toronto? Well, I love the Toronto. I tried to explain to my wife one day I'm like, so many Canadians put the like an hour before the show, and they don't read their Trump dough. And she's like, that's not how you say it. I wish you guys knew how my wife's personality of mine are not the same. So I'm like, I'm not saying that. That's how you say it. I'm saying that's how they say it. And she's like, that's not how you say it. I'm like, Oh my God. We're caught in a circle here.

Nicole 1:13:54
Like it's just a friend of mine used to laugh at me. She was from the from New York. And I said something one time she goes, Oh my God, you're so Canadian. I said, What are you talking about? It's just like, you just had a boot. And I said, What are you? What do you mean? I don't say a boo. None of us say we're not going to boot. That's not how we talk. She goes it is how you talk. Again, and really so yeah, we just say a boo.

Scott Benner 1:14:19
Nicole, I don't know. I can't judge you. I honestly, if I were to say water. I'd be like, why is that? Why is my mouth doing that? So I can't make fun of you. You say a boot if you want to. You know it's interesting. I've been sharing this with a lot of people. I've been making the after darks lately. I gotta tell you a secret. I hate that they're called after dark. Why is that? I don't think there's anything wrong with this conversation.

Nicole 1:14:49
Well, it's funny you say that because I've had I've told a few people that I was that I had this call scheduled with you today and that it was going to be an after dark episode and they go well, why is it Hold that. And I've said, Well, I think generally it's not, you know, children appropriate and because there's so many kids that listen to your podcast, that maybe that's why, and but I had a few people say that like, what are you going to talk about that you wouldn't say in front of a child? And that's so inappropriate? That's so wildly inappropriate?

Scott Benner 1:15:20
No, tell them I agree. Yeah, no, I've

Nicole 1:15:22
had a few people say, I don't understand the after dark thing that

Scott Benner 1:15:26
I don't either. It's because I think I'm doing it for like, the one person who will look up from their Bible while they're listening to this and send me a note that says, you know, you can't I wish you'd flagged it differently. Yeah. And you can't you can't you can't let somebody talk about drinking like this and not let me know that's going to happen. Right? And I don't find personally, there's two people here talking to you at the moment. There's the bonds. No, I'm just kidding. There's the person that makes the podcast, and the person I am if this wasn't what I did, and the person I am doesn't want them to be called anything. The person who makes the podcast knows that if I don't call them something, then people will complain to me. And I

Nicole 1:16:14
do but do people. Yeah. Yeah. Are you really Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:16:19
get complaints about them. So not a lot. But enough that, you know, I get yelled at sometimes. Because, like, I mean, honestly, you say that you will, you're not going to hear a lot of podcasts seriously talk about drinking the way we did, and yet be so jovial about it at the same time, but But it's, but it's not a comedy thing, where we're just like, ignoring the fact that you shouldn't be drinking that much wine. Like, you know, it's interesting, too. You know it right?

Nicole 1:16:49
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, it's, for a long time, I tried to convince myself that that wasn't, you know, the person I was because I don't have mine at breakfast. And because I don't, you know, I don't have to drink every second of every day. I'm definitely not an alcoholic. But no, I also recognize that like, when you're when your mind immediately thinks of alcohol as the solution for stress or fear nerves, then yeah, your your brain is, is geared for something different. And I'm not saying that, you know, it can't be helped or fixed.

Scott Benner 1:17:24
Does it feel like if you had a food thing, like if every time you got upset you ate? Or if every time you felt stressed, you ate you would see this as the same thing?

Nicole 1:17:33
Yeah, I mean, I even think about, like smokers. And you know, how many times people that smoke cigarettes would say, you know, if I get stressed out at work, they go, Well, do you want to go and have a cigarette? Oh, no, I don't actually I don't want to smoke.

Scott Benner 1:17:48
I would like a big gulp of

Nicole 1:17:53
glass of wine, that would be my solution right

Scott Benner 1:17:54
now. But I'm gonna say something that I don't know if people think about all the time. Society is tenuous. And it's being held together a little bit with, you know, duct tape and spit just a little. And if you took away cigarettes, and alcohol, and a number of other drugs from society, I think in about a week and a half, we'd be in the streets stabbing each other with whatever we could find. And so, yeah, and there are plenty of people like I'm going to tell you right now, everything you've explained to me about, about your desire to drink, I understand what you're saying. I have literally no personal context for it at all. I can't as a person, like as a as just an individual. I do not know what you're talking about. I don't understand that life gets hard and you want to drink. I don't I don't I don't. I just I'm lucky that I don't feel that way. And I think I'm very aware of that. But I get it. I like intellectually, I understand everything you're saying. And yeah, I don't judge it at all. Like, but I really think it's just the case. You know, I think some people, they're, they're wired one way and some people are wired another way. And it doesn't make say

Nicole 1:19:06
like, I have an addictive personality or I have you know, addictive tendencies. I do believe that people can, can be that way. I can start my day without a cup of coffee. I need the coffee. I if I don't have the coffee, I'll be very sick without the coffee. I'm just as addicted to coffee as I am no alcohol. I have to tell you, it's a little bit more socially acceptable. In my mind,

Scott Benner 1:19:27
I have people are gonna laugh at me. I have the same arguments in my mind about little weird things all the time. For instance, almost three times a week, I think, shouldn't I just drink a cup of coffee to see what it's like?

Speaker 1 1:19:42
But right like, shouldn't I just go get coffee and try it? And I think yeah, I should. I should just go try that. And then I never do. Or someone gave us the edibles once as a gift. And they sat in the house so long that they got hard went bad and we have to throw them away. Right? But what we were like We should try these. And everyone is like, yeah. And then it just never happened. Never got there. It doesn't make any sense. Like I, I am so understanding of like, weed culture, that if I were to get a vape pen, I know which one I would get, like, I've looked into it that much, I will never, I will never do it.

Scott Benner 1:20:21
And I don't know why. Like, I am almost as conflicted about it as you are. Except for when I stop and think about what the like when I think about weed as an example, I think about like pain, like my back or something like that. And I think well, if that would help with that, then I would, I would be very interested in that because I don't listen, if you are a person listening right now. And you somehow see a difference between going to a doctor and getting a compound through a pharmacy. And you know, a guy in a restaurant taking a bump of cocaine to get through a thing. Like, I think you're being a little like, puritanical. If you're thinking about that it's all the same thing. It's just coming through different directions. Yeah, and so I have no feeling that like, oh, I shouldn't try that. I should probably, but then I just don't. But I'm not being held back by any fear or guilt or anything. It just, it's not enough. For me. It's almost like gambling. Like to me, like, I see how it would be fun to bet on something. But then I'm like, I don't care enough to actually do it. To actually get there. Yeah, like, it's just, it's, it's just the strangest, it's weird to be me in this situation, because I am totally open to it. Like, even like the idea of like, micro dosing mushrooms. Like I hear people talking about that. And I think yeah, but that makes a lot of sense. You know, and then, like, if you were anxious, or depressed or, or anything like that, and something like that would help you. I think that's great. I, you know, I just I don't know, I could never saying could never is the wrong phrasing. i It doesn't, I'm not drawn in that direction, I think is the the honest way to say it.

Nicole 1:22:06
It's just it's not in your vocabulary. No,

Scott Benner 1:22:09
I'm drawn in the direction of my back hurting and me being okay with it. Right, but Right. But for some reason, I did make a doctor's appointment for a couple of weeks from now with an integrative medicine person. And I am going to go in and say, Look, here are the things that I'm like physically unhappy about. I would not rule out anything. Tell me what you think. What do you recommend? Yeah, because I don't, I wouldn't, you know, I hurt. I shouldn't say this out loud. Yeah, I can't say this on here. Okay. There is a drug. I can talk around it. Okay, that people use to cut weight. Yes, that a lot of it's and it's not insulin. I want to be really clear. It's yeah, okay. Yeah. And I could easily, like, take it, right. And I heard somebody talking about it. And I know that works. And I know there's no like real weird side effects from it. I was still like, Man, I probably won't do that. I'll probably just die overweight. And then. But then, but like, think about the reverse idea of it. Like there's that I have access to this tiny little thing, that if I, if I took one of them a day for a few weeks, I probably lose an amount of weight that would benefit my heart. And yet, I'm like, well, that's not what it's for. Which is ridiculous. But if I go to that doctor, and that doctor would tell me here, I'm gonna give you these pills. Take them for this many weeks, and I think you'll lose 20 pounds. I'd go okay. You would do it. Yeah, isn't it? It's very strange, right?

Nicole 1:23:52
Yeah. Yeah, it really is. It really is. It's so and it's funny. It really is funny to me. What? Yeah, what people are willing to do to their bodies.

Scott Benner 1:24:02
If someone says it's okay. What's that? Sorry if someone says it's okay.

Nicole 1:24:06
Yeah, because the doctor tells you you should. Many years ago I was I did take medication for anxiety. I had. Again, I don't know if you've talked to anybody with this. Have you ever heard of trichotillomania

Scott Benner 1:24:20
get the data here? You made that up? I know where you made that up. Don't start lying now. You've been honest. So far trick.

Nicole 1:24:30
Hello, mania.

Scott Benner 1:24:31
I found that hold on. Yeah, I'm assuming this is a website that you made. Just it's a disorder that involves recurrent irresistible urges to pull out body hair.

Nicole 1:24:43
Uh huh. So I had this again, from the time I was very young, and growing up, and I finally had enough of that and I went to a doctor and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Please help me stop. I'd like to see a psychiatrist or I'd like to see a therapist. And I don't want to do the hair pulling anymore. And he said, No, no, no, it's just an anxiety problem here. Just take this pill. And he put me on these anxiety meds. And I went on them and I went, like, and they mellowed me right out. And I felt super mellow all the time. And then after a little while, I thought, so funny. I don't feel any, any stress and any anxiety, but I also don't feel general, like happiness anymore. I just, I was so mellowed, that there was no that it eliminated the extreme highs and the extreme lows. So as much as I wanted to get rid of those lows, I've missed the highs that were coming. If that makes sense. I went off the meds. And I thought afterwards like again, it seems so it seems so normal to just yeah, here's the meds just take them. It's just these pills that can all be solved with pills. And it was and that was his solution to it and really know what I needed was to, to see a counselor to see a therapist, like there was more to it than than not, you can't just take a pill to make it all go away. I mean, you can you can and doctors love to prescribe them. But we also, you know, again, there the there has to be a certain level of responsibility that we take on ourselves. Great point.

Scott Benner 1:26:15
Ever depressed. Do you have OCD?

Nicole 1:26:19
Yes, and yes, not so much. I mean OCD a little bit, but not really the trick and the trick is like a sign of OCD. But not that aside from that that would be about it. Like again, I there's a lot of like, I don't know if I don't think it's normal. I do a lot of like counting like counting steps counting stairs. Yeah. Numbers, numbers, numbers and depressed. Yeah, depression for sure. Yeah, there's been a lot of that over the years. I have more. I don't take anything for it. Aside from wine.

Scott Benner 1:26:51
Heil. There's a summary here. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is associated with low grade inflammation, neural antibodies or neuro inflammatory autoimmune disorders. In some subsets of OCD patients, autoimmunity is likely triggered by specific bacterial, viral or parasitic agents overlapping surfaces. I mean, the hair pulling disorder which I'm not going to trick a trill till amania trichotillomania, trichotillomania, that sounds like something from the seventh day song. Do you ever eat the hair?

Nicole 1:27:28
No, no, no, never, never like that.

Scott Benner 1:27:33
Is it? Can you vibe with what I'm reading here like that? There's this as you reach for the hair. There's like this tension that builds up. And then there's a release after you pull it out. Yeah. And it makes you feel better.

Nicole 1:27:45
Yeah. See, but for for half of a second. And then it's gone. Like and then it disappears just as quickly as it was there.

Scott Benner 1:27:54
The alleviation disappears. Yeah. Correct. So it's not actually helpful.

Nicole 1:27:59
I think that's where it becomes like an obsessive disorder is where you it's this obsessive thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking about it, and the, like, the, the, I think that's how they describe the like, OCD is the obsessive this of it to the to the compulsion of doing it, like

Scott Benner 1:28:20
if you need the release, then and it only lasts for a split second, then you got to keep doing it to make the release again. I mean, honestly,

Nicole 1:28:26
it never ever fixes whatever's causing the anxiety in the first place.

Scott Benner 1:28:29
Yeah, I mean, even like, just transfer that idea over to smoking you brought up smoking or right you smoke the cigarette, the nicotine hits you. It gives you that pop, right, yeah. And then it lasts. It lasts a little while and then it wears off. You have another cigarette. That's the same right? It's really this idea. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right.

Nicole 1:28:48
And again, I think like same with the caffeine, same with it, many of them again, same as a lot of the medications that you can take like eventually it wears off you have to and you have to keep feeding and feeding and feeding.

Scott Benner 1:28:59
But you're lying. Is that hard drugs?

Nicole 1:29:01
No, I've never done hard drugs. Interesting. You don't know why never. I don't know why. Yeah, I just never had an intro you know, I I never had the interest like I said I never wanted the I never wanted the hallucinations like any of the hallucinogenic drugs scared me really scared me I just couldn't imagine ever putting my body through that again. And so then I like I just I think I just never dabbled with any of it it just it's not like I wasn't around it it's not like I didn't know people that did it but

Scott Benner 1:29:32
no, cuz you're around it all the time is my point.

Nicole 1:29:36
Yeah, exactly. Like it's very very prevalent. I could easily get my hands on it if I wanted to almost anything I imagine. My partner's a weed smoker I'm sitting next to at the kitchen table is is a bag of weed and rolling papers. Like if I wanted to, I could smoke a joint right now and I just I literally have no interest on

Scott Benner 1:29:53
it. Hey, this is gonna seem like a right term. But did you like the bear on Hulu? Have you haven't seen it? to restaurants.

Nicole 1:30:01
Yes and no, it was very uncomfortable for me. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:30:04
I'm dying to know why. It was.

Nicole 1:30:07
It's a very real look into the restaurant industry, which is wonderful. But it's there is a bit of like, there was a bit of discomfort in the stress and anxiety that he was going through. You know, when I get home at night, I don't generally want to think about restaurants anymore. Sure. Like, and if there are a lot of those shows like that restaurant impossible, the bear, even the Gordon Ramsay one where he goes into a Restaurant Makeover, whatever it was, those they really do they kind of make me uncomfortable.

Scott Benner 1:30:41
No, I would imagine I just yeah, you're saying it's very, it's a incredibly realistic look at it.

Nicole 1:30:46
Very, very much. So yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know. It's a really well done show. I think I think we got through maybe four or five episodes. And it was a really well done show. But yeah, it just a bit too much of a real look into what it was there was another movie recently released called boiling point. And where they follow the chef who really does reach his boiling point on a busy Friday night, and I watched that with such extreme discomfort that was over. And so many people were like, Oh, that movie was amazing. It was so good. And I was like, Oh, God, it just felt so real. So real in an uncomfortable in an uncomfortable way?

Scott Benner 1:31:28
Is the I think it just has to be that way, like a restaurant because of the the pressure and the speed and everything, or do you think it's more about the people that get attracted to doing the work and how they react in that setting?

Nicole 1:31:43
Right. Yeah, I think it's probably a bit of both. I think because you really, I mean, restaurants are like, fairly, highly unpredictable. There's a lot that, you know, sometimes the restaurant business will kind of slap you in the face in terms of volume of business volume of sales, you know, it would be lovely to think that every day I go in and deal with the exact same thing, but it's never ever like that. You're dealing with so many people and so many personalities. And it really is, you know, an intense, a highly intensive stressful job for short bursts of time. You know, you but I think at the same time, there's people that enjoy that. That stress and that

Scott Benner 1:32:27
yes, I was gonna ask you Do you like it? Yeah.

Nicole 1:32:31
Oh, yeah, I do. I do. I love it. I love the hospitality industry, like driving a wrench and doing anything else with my life. It's

Scott Benner 1:32:37
like driving a racecar. You think? Like, you're like, everything's good. We're going really fast and slow down. And now we're gonna go around a corner. We might hit something, but we didn't like is that Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably. So interesting. The call you have been one of my favorite conversations so far this year. Thank you.

Nicole 1:32:51
Well, thank you. It's only February. So give it time.

Scott Benner 1:32:55
cut yourself short right away. You're like, we're only a month and a half. And I cleared No, I mean, I my first episode was with a paraplegic who rides a bicycle and has type one diabetes is pretty interesting

Nicole 1:33:06
now. Yes. Very, very interesting. I remember that episode. Was that this year?

Scott Benner 1:33:09
Yeah. It was the first episode of 2023. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Nicole 1:33:13
that was a great episode.

Scott Benner 1:33:14
Thank you. See, I really appreciate how much you listen at the end here, because we're done. Because this was terrific. There's no more you need to give. And plus, I'm assuming you have to drink. But

Nicole 1:33:26
it's now almost 1pm. So you're right.

Scott Benner 1:33:30
To be funny, but but can you just for a minute, explain to me why you've I mean, you've been the show's been on for nine years. Like this is the ninth calendar year, I'm making this podcast. Have you really been listening that long to it? 2015 2015. I started.

Nicole 1:33:48
Yeah, if not 2015. It was shortly thereafter. I think that I've listened to every episode. I really do. There's been a few recently that I haven't if they were, you know, if I didn't feel like they would be relevant to me in some way. But for the most part. Yeah. I really have been listening that long. It's amazing.

Scott Benner 1:34:05
I'm glad I thank you. I'm glad you like it. Yeah,

Nicole 1:34:10
I've been an i i You know, I know a lot of it's funny. I do have diet type one diabetics that I talk to on a pretty frequent basis, I generally recommend the podcast. So yeah, I have been listening to it for a long time.

Scott Benner 1:34:23
Thank you. Well, I'll tell you why it makes me feel good, is because you just said you watch the bear. And it made you very uncomfortable, because it showed you a part of something you didn't want to see that you already dealt. Right. But yeah, you're listening to this and not having that same reaction. So I feel good about that. You know,

Nicole 1:34:39
what I think the biggest part of it is, is that and I think this about a lot of the Facebook groups and I generally try to you know, when I see people struggling with it, I always say like, I think the biggest help that you can find for yourself is another type one to talk to. And like I said I have a few of those that I see on almost to daily basis where we can, you know, vent and grief to one another. But if you don't have that access, and I mean, social media is helpful as well. But you have to know how to filter out a lot of social media. But I think the podcast does give an opportunity to listen to people who understand who are in the same scenario, and kind of give it a sense of like community and, and normalcy. If that makes sense. Those

Scott Benner 1:35:25
do not. Um, yeah, I'm so happy to hear that. I really am. You were terrific. I really do appreciate you doing this. And thank you.

Nicole 1:35:34
I appreciate you having me. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:35:36
think we should just turn the whole podcast into like, after dark and then then we'll lose the after dark thing. Yeah,

Nicole 1:35:42
yeah. Like it can people that's just normal. Yeah, it's just normal life.

Scott Benner 1:35:46
Yeah. Well, I think Well, honestly, because I believe it is. I agree with you. I think that it's an odd thing. To say that something anything, forget it, like the people wearing black T shirts, right? It's so prevalent in the world. And yet, if you didn't ever wear a black T shirt for you to say like, oh, that's, you know, that's wrong. You know, like, so it doesn't? In my mind, it doesn't matter to me, if you're, if you're using something to get through the day, whether it's caffeine or nicotine or alcohol, or you know, something else. You can't, if you're not one of those people, you can't sit back and judge the others. I mean, a because it's just so it's so prevalent, that I don't know, when you stop thinking about it as a problem and just start seeing it as apparently a necessity.

Nicole 1:36:39
Do you think it like, you can liken it to? How many times have you spoken to a UN I don't maybe not yourself, but for for myself, and you know, there's families that come into the restaurant. And sometimes I like I said at the beginning of the show, I swear a lot like, you know, I'll drop an F bomb here and there, I was actually pretty good. I think

Scott Benner 1:37:00
today I didn't I curse more than

Nicole 1:37:03
right? So I but how many times do you swear in front of in front of a kid? And then you go oh, sorry. You know, and the parent often looks at you and goes, like, they don't hear that word at home. Like, we all swear we all do it. Why? Why do we censor it out? It happens?

Scott Benner 1:37:20
Is it the concern that? Because you said we were joking about the kid who sold the pictures of his feet? And like saying we tried too hard. But is it the concern that what if we all tried to sell pictures of our feet? And then who the hell would make money to pay for the pictures of our feet? Like, is it that feeling? Do you think like, if we were all like, if everyone was doing coke to get through the day, they would not turn into? Like, you don't I mean? Like we need a balance of people. And I think that's obvious. Like I think there needs to be all kinds of people there, obviously, are all kinds of people, and you shouldn't try to eliminate any of them, or get them to stop doing what they do. My point is that you should stop judging what they do.

Nicole 1:38:02
Well, and I was just going to say, I think we it's it's thinking that we should all stop judging, but at the same time recognizing that we all do. And I think the reason why a lot of these things go on talked about is because you never know what somebody's going to judge you for. Yeah, man. Yeah, what's that? Sorry?

Scott Benner 1:38:23
You don't want to get spun back around on you?

Nicole 1:38:25
Yeah, yeah. Nobody, nobody wants to, to be judged for for the wrong reason, or for something that they I mean, again, it's pretty open, you can be pretty open and out there with people that you assumer are going to be okay with it. But if I had a group of of churchgoers come into the restaurant after church on Sunday mornings, I probably am not going to be dropping the F bomb around them. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 1:38:51
No, yeah, nothing and nothing wrong with being respectful of other people's, like, situations to you know what he mean? Like, I'm not saying you should be like, I mean, listen, I, personally, I'm thinking of who I know, smokes a lot of weed. And I have no trouble in the world with what they do. And yet, I was somewhere with them recently. And they were doing it and it kind of imposed on everybody else. And I thought, well, that's not okay. But I would have thought the same way if they would have smoked a cigarette in that situation, or I guess if they would have I don't know, I guess if they would have done anything in that situation. That somehow could have been an imposition other people. There's a balance in there. And just, I don't know, I'm just I think what I'm saying is you have to recognize that somebody's doing any number of the things that we spoke about today is not an indication that they are deficient or broken, or anything like that. We should stop treating people that way. Right. You know what I mean? Just let everybody do what they need to do.

Nicole 1:39:49
We're all just trying to cope. Life is short.

Scott Benner 1:39:53
Yeah, that's it. All right. This was great. Nicole, you were terrific. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Hold on one second. Good time. Oh, did you? Yeah, good. Yeah. Did Oh good. Glad it didn't make you anxious nervous? Or did it make you feel like you wanted to drink while we were talking? Or did it make you feel? No, no, not at all. At all. Are you saying I'm better than your therapist? Nicole? What do you think? What are you paying that therapist is at 40. I know. Yeah, a lot of money. Why don't you send it to me and we'll just talk every week,

Nicole 1:40:25
once a week, but I don't I don't even see her once a week. So that's okay. You're off the hook for that. Alright. Thanks. Yep.

Scott Benner 1:40:41
Nicole was terrific. Was she not? Thank you so much, Nicole, for telling your story. And thank you to Omni pod for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Is it really gonna be a giant truck that goes by while I'm making this good? Omni pod for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Please go to Omni pod.com/juicebox to learn more. See if you're eligible for that free trial and get started with the Omni pod. That truck is so far from here and it's still loud. What the You people doing? Your cars don't need to be that loud. She's contour next.com forward slash juicebox. Get yourself a contour next gen blood glucose meter. They're accurate. They're amazing. And you deserve accuracy. I deserve some peace and quiet while I'm trying to make this podcast. But you know, unlike you, I might not be able to get what I deserve. You can just go Oh, mother, dog. Are you serious? Is this how this is gonna go? Alright, I gotta go. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. Obviously, I'm guessing you don't know that word, but whatever. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget to hit the links in the show notes or juicebox podcast.com Don't forget to find the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, and check out bold beginnings. My god defining diabetes the protip series, support the podcast listen to some episodes. Download it. Are you subscribed? Please listen, look what I'm going through to make you this podcast. Please tell me you're subscribed. If you're not subscribed, I swear to god