Scott Benner 11/16/20 Scott Benner 11/16/20

#407 Emotions at Diagnosis & Diabetes Distress

The Psychology of Type 1

Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss burnout, emotions surrounding diagnosis, and dealing with diabetes distress and constructive ways to prevent it from impairing one’s function. http://erikaforsyth.com

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:10
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 407 of the Juicebox Podcast. On today's show, Erica Forsyth is here she has a master's in social work, and she specializes in diabetes. She's going to tell you more about in a second. But for right now please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 0:44
Hi, my name is Erika Forsyth. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and type one for over 30 years.

Scott Benner 0:53
Okay, so I'm already that quickly. My I don't think I have ADHD. But when you said that I was like, Oh, we should just talk about being married. That would be anything. But to find out why is it so hard to be married? And why do people argue about Oh, but nevermind, that's not what we're gonna do.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries, g Volk hype open. Find out more at G Volk glucagon.com forward slash juice box. This episode is also sponsored by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. And you can get a free no obligation demo of the on the pod sent directly to you today by going to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juicebox. Try it on where it and see what you think before you commit. Don't forget to check out touched by type one there at touched by type one.org. It is my absolute favorite diabetes organization. Check them out. They're also on Instagram and Facebook touched by type one.org. When were you diagnosed?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:15
I was diagnosed at age 12. In the summer at summer camp,

Scott Benner 2:20
summer camp, not the best memory or not a bad memory.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:24
Um, it was a pretty traumatic memory and diagnosis story. You know, everyone has their own diagnosis story. It was over kind of a span of a couple months. It was a three week long summer camp and I was diagnosed the night, the last night of the three week summer camp.

Scott Benner 2:43
Oh, and then they shipped you home lifeless.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:46
They I don't remember this but they put me I was in sixth grade. They put me in a ambulance and I was on my way to a diabetic coma ketoacidosis. And so then I my parents met me at the ER at some point that night. I know it's all kind of a blur. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:03
So you were there for three weeks? Do you think it's just happening to you the entirety of those three weeks?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:09
You know, I think they I was played in a volleyball camp in the beginning of the summer. And you know, to do that I had to have a you know, check in a physical and also before going away for the summer camp. And definitely I was experiencing sometimes, but like many families we did not know to look for, you know, frequent thirst, frequent urination and extreme weight loss. They just thought I was growing and it was hot. And I was playing lots of volleyball. And then I went off to summer camp. And you know, there was a flu going through the camp and I fainted. So they thought it was that they thought it maybe was I was going through puberty. You know, definitely was experiencing extreme fatigue, which was really abnormal because I was an athlete. Yeah. So it can when you're not really looking for type one, the symptoms aren't as obvious. But then when you look back, and you can check off, you know, all of those symptoms like oh my gosh, we should have known. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 4:14
mean, I guess especially when you're under the care of corny 18 year old camp counselors to they're probably just like she's got the flow. Get her in a bed.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:22
Oh, yes. Yes. And you know, it was interesting. Finally, it was the last day of camp and in most camps, you know, everyone that daycare, they're getting ready for the banquet, and so all the girls are running around in a room or cabin, and I'm kind of going in and out of consciousness and they're, they're good, they're prepping or getting dressed or getting their makeup on. And I guess finally my symptoms are made known to a male camp counselor who happened to have type one. And so I remember him coming into our room which was you know, a male and the girls cabin was was like, you know, endless scary or just not normal. And he took my blood sugar and at Red high and at the time that was like, I think over 600. And so I think it was really kind of a saving grace that he heard my symptoms. He was there he knew to take my blood sugar. And you know, the rest is history. Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 5:15
that is lucky, honestly, for you. All right. Well, I've never been to camp but you just made it sound not very good.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:25
Oh, I love the camp. You know what I went. It took me a couple years, but I went back in high school to kind of redeem my experience, because it was a special, it's a special place. That's cool. That's good. Yeah. Well, okay, so

Scott Benner 5:35
how long ago was this?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:38
This was 30 years ago.

Scott Benner 5:40
Wow. All right. No, I'm gonna do some quick math and say that was 1990.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:45
That was that was the summer of 1990. That was good math.

Scott Benner 5:49
Thank you. I'm very impressed at my ability to subtract three. to subtract three from to know it's a negative one, then knock 10 years off a 2000. The way I came up with, it really is brilliant. I don't want to bore anybody with it, but very impressed with what I learned in seventh grade. And was able to retain Okay, so you're on the show today, you were you were actually suggests suggested to me by someone else. Am I right about that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:16
Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 6:17
So tell me what you do professionally.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:21
Professionally, I am, as I said, in a marriage and family therapist, but I specialize in working with people with diabetes and their families, their caregivers, as we know it, you know, it takes a village and it affects not only the person with diabetes, but everyone around him or her. And so I love my job. And I love that I get to walk alongside people, you know, from newly diagnosed to, you know, people living with it for 1015 2030 plus years, who are maybe experiencing some, you know, distress or burnout or other issues that may or may not be related to diabetes, but oftentimes, it can go back to that.

Scott Benner 7:10
Why don't we start with burning out? And I'd love to know. So I'm assuming you see people who've been with diabetes for all length of time. And then how did you think of burnout? Like, beyond, you know, just the word that gets kind of thrown around in, you know, in social circles online? Like what what is burnout to you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:30
Yeah, so I, I think a lot of people really work on clarifying that diabetes, distress leads to burnout. And I think you know, it, if you're experiencing just stress over and maybe it comes and goes, but when you're actually experiencing burnout, people will describe it as you know, hitting a wall, or maybe it's you feel like you just don't have the, you know, capacity to take care of yourself, manage your diabetes, maybe you want to skip a dose, maybe you just want to eat whatever and not think about, you know, carb counting or or think about what where's my blood sugar now, what am I doing and all the things that we have to think about when we're about to do something or eat something or exercise. And so burnout is, I just want to think about it, I'm, I'm done, I want to take a break, and you might you probably not even doing that consciously. And I think you know, burnout can be become very risky and scary when you're experiencing that over prolonged period of time.

Scott Benner 8:38
Well, so you're saying that there's, like stressors that lead to the give up, like the hand throwing up, or even the subconscious hand throwing off of just like, I'm gonna get a bag of potato chips and sit on the sofa now, and this is the extent of my nutrition, like, I've just given up on everything, for reasons that can be external, and unseen. Is that possible, like so the way I to give you a little look into my head that one of the reasons I make this podcast is because that I think that managing Type One Diabetes is arduous, and that if you're mired down constantly in the math, and the worry and things are always going wrong, and your meal spike and you're high all the time, and you don't know why and then you drop low and you're, you know, you're concerned about being low, then you over treat you bounce up, this is an untenable way to live. And so I'm a big proponent of learning quickly how to manage the insulin so that you don't sort of start this journey of, of wherever, you know, it leads to that ends up with many people just being like, I can't do this or this thing beats me all the time or it's unknowable, or whatever. It ends up feeling like the different people. So it could be simple, right? Like it could be like one day I just don't feel like giving myself a shot. Then the next day, I don't know how many carbs are in this, and then it gets high. And I'll just leave it high and see if it comes down. And then these things build and build and build on themselves. Is that true?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:10
Yes, I would say that's, that is an accurate description, in addition to maybe other external kind of stressors or you know, feeling like you're powerless. Or maybe you have a constant fear of, of having hypoglycemia, or you're really, you know, particularly in the teenage years, this is can be quite normal of feeling like you want to hide your diabetes from other people. or feeling like your doctor just doesn't understand what it's like. So in these are, that those are maybe at play. And in addition to you know, what, I just don't want it. I don't want to have to think about my blood sugar is and I want to eat five donuts this morning. And that can all snowball. Yes,

Scott Benner 10:56
yeah. And then before you know it, you're so mired down in it that you don't know how you got there. And there's no way to know how to get out anymore.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:04
Right. And, and, and kind of, you know, when you're sick all the time, you kind of just get used to feeling sick, and then maybe one day, you're not sick, like oh my gosh, I didn't know how good that feels to not be sick. I think you can become kind of used to maybe not feeling well, because of your sugar's are so high, and then emotionally and mentally, you're, you're down and out. And you that just becomes your new normal, right? Your pain, pain, the nuts, you know, where I want to enter it? Yes,

Scott Benner 11:33
paint paint starts that way. It's a,

Unknown Speaker 11:36
I

Scott Benner 11:37
had a motorcycle accident, I was like 20. And I don't have any, like health insurance. So when I was lucky enough to stand up, they were like, you're going to the hospital. And I was like, I don't have insurance. You're not taking me to the hospital. I'm poor. I know where that leads to. So I just went home and my shoulder healed naturally, which obviously, in hindsight, wasn't a great decision. And over the next, you know, 20 years, it actually worked fine. But it turned out that, you know, the weird healing process besides the lump that's on my shoulder that you can feel that doesn't belong there. It turned out that there was, you know, a calcification that kept building and building and building and one day is impinged a, my, my gosh, it's such a simple concept. Everybody gets their shoulder repaired that thing in their shoulder is called anybody had

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:24
their rotator. Thank you,

Scott Benner 12:25
Erica. in pain, it's the rotator cuff. And it just snapped. Right? But it happens super slowly. And it hurt a little you got used to it hurt a little more you got used to it couldn't lift your arm up as high, you got used to it. It's amazing how adaptive we can be, you know, and then I'll never forget the biggest relief I had in four years because it took 20 years for me to start noticing the problem and for years for it to explode. But I was trying to have a catch with my son one day thinking I was pushing through this, you know, stiffnesses what, how I imagined it my addled mind, you know. And then suddenly, I said to him, like, Oh my god, I worked through it. It's, it feels great. And for the next 20 minutes, it was perfect, until I realized that my rotator cuff it the 10 minutes. Right and just the snapping of it alleviated my pain for a while until a new pain showed up. I think that's exactly what you're talking about. Is that it? You know, you start off with a you know, not having diabetes. Your blood sugar's in the 80s all the time, then suddenly, it's not anymore. Now you know, you're in the 90s the hundreds you're honeymooning, and then suddenly it's 120 and 130 and 150. Before you know it, you feel completely normal at 200. And you're not you just don't realize it. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:42
yes, no, that's a that's a great analogy. And I'm sorry that happened that please.

Scott Benner 13:47
What am I gonna do? You know, the day I figured it out? I couldn't hold a water bottle in my right hand.

Unknown Speaker 13:51
Oh my god, like,

Scott Benner 13:53
I am gonna move this to my left hand and call a doctor. But Batman Oh, yeah, please smart move would have been when I was 20 years old, going a little bit in debt and having my shoulders but I was really broke back then Eric and anything over $45 seemed like a million so Oh, yes. luck, you know, but but so what do people like, given that you don't see it happening to you? I mean, that's why my argument is, you know, just stop it from happening. You know, and but you know, shy of that being able to be your reality say you don't find a podcast that helps you manage your insulin. How do I like what are my signs if I because I'm assuming I'm, I'm hoping that a loved one sees this right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:39
Right. Yes. I mean, I know you know, I speak a lot from you know, the person who's living with diabetes can experience the you know, distress and burnout but obviously the caregiver, like yourself can too because it's it's constant. I think some of you know the the obvious signs would be You know, not doing some of the things that you used to do, like, for example, maybe your check it used to check frequently, and then now it's becoming less frequent. Or you're just maybe looking for signs that something might not be something is bothering you that you might not be feeling as, as hopeful in, in life in general. But also with, with your diabetes care you might be experiencing, you know, this is what a lot of younger, my younger clients will talk about, or experienced just the guilt and shame around the number. Because there is such a hyper focus on the numbers. You know, when I was first diagnosed, I went to a large Children's Hospital, and whenever I, they would take your a one see right there, it was just like from a finger stack, and then it would it would compute, and then they would apply your a one C to A letter grade. Oh, so this is this is in the, you know, the 90s, early 90s. And so if you were in the right zone, it was an A, if you were you know, eight to 10, you are a B or in higher. I mean, there were times where I remember I had like a D. And so talk about, you know, they're trying to encourage you to have a better grade. But that certainly started the turn of the course for me and having some shame based thinking around my numbers. And I hear a lot of clients talk about, you know, I don't want to check because I know it's going to be 350. So of course you don't, then you you're connecting that number to who you are as a person, how you're doing with your diabetes management. And so of course, you don't want to check it, or look at your CGM.

Scott Benner 16:47
I'm fixated that one

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:48
battle spirals,

Scott Benner 16:49
who the moron is that thought that that was would have been the way to go, you know, you know, we'll do we'll grade them. And the people are doing poorly, we'll give them really bad grades that should motivate them. I who, who thinks that way, but like, at least they could have rated you on like the popularity of Nirvana songs, like, you know, like, if you if you had like an 85 you were like, Teen Spirit. But you know, if you were more like, 120, you were paying royalty, and you know, it's somewhere in there, like, why not? Oh, my God, that's really terrible. Like how have we come so far in 30 years, the way we think about things,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:24
and you know, and I am grateful, you know, I don't hold anything against them. But I think that's where we were, you know, kind of fear fear based. You know, if you don't check your blood sugar, if you have a D on your ANC, you're gonna experience all these complications. And so, I love like a lot of doctors and psychologists are, you know, trying to really focus on like, let's do evidence based hope and motivate people based on these the other numbers of if you keep yourself in, you know, good range, or you exemplify or show these kind of behaviors, you are going to live longer with, you know, and I can't pull the numbers out right now, but have a higher chance of not having any complications, as opposed to well, if you don't, you are going to have complications, right?

Scott Benner 18:11
Is it possible that aspirational talk doesn't work on people whose blood sugars are elevated all the time? Or have incredible stress about, like getting low? Or something like that? Is it is it feel like a bridge too far to even hope?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:23
I think that's where you want to get that get them to, but obviously, in the beginning, you might need to start smaller. For example, let's focus on you know, the behaviors the process instead of the outcome. And if you're a parent working with a child or a teenager, you know, they catch them being good. You're you're praising the behavior of Oh, my gosh, you know, thank you for checking your blood sugar, and not asking what the number is, you know, thank you for you know, bolusing. I know you. And I really like all your pro tips about the Pre-Bolus. And the timing of the Bolus is so crucial. And so praising them for or helping them around that piece, as opposed to what is your number now before we eat, what's your in the dish, the hyper focus on the numbers has to shift if you're trying to help somebody move away from that shame based thinking around your number and your agency, because that's where a lot because that's where you do need to focus on but at the same time, you need to take that piece away to help elevate a person's mood or distress.

Scott Benner 19:36
I don't think about the numbers at all anymore. I think about an outlet. So my daughter has a dexcom CGM. So I'm lucky to be able to see a graph right but i just think about, like stability and maintaining the stability. To me, the rest of it doesn't matter carbs, you know, try to force the line up insulin tries to stop that. It's it's Kind of, I really I simplify it in my head, just you know, you know, you see a blood sugar that's darting up, you stop it, just stop it, you know. And once it's stopped, if you if you've over addressed it, then you know, fix that without it going back up again and learn from your next mistake, I think, you know, if you've overcorrected don't spend a lot of time hand wringing and saying to yourself, like, oh, I've messed it up again, like, you know, like, just look and go, Okay, well, look, this time I tried one one was too much, I'm going to try three quarters next time, I don't know, whatever, you know. And then you'll learn and build and learn and build. And before you know it, I just, I just saw a note today, in the I have a private Facebook group for this podcast, and a woman said, I came in, I was really desirous to just have success right away. And I almost just went right to the pro tips she's like, but instead I just went back to the beginning of the podcast, and I started listening over, she said, she was like, 40 episodes in, and she's already has an incredible improvement in health. And, and her ability to manage blood sugars. And I said this to somebody privately the other day, I said, I know that the podcast has 400 episodes at this point. But the truth is, in my opinion, you go back, listen to this podcast straight through, you're gonna have anyone seeing the low sixes, and it's not going to be tough to get to. And that's because there are so many little things about diabetes, that if you expect someone to sit in a doctor's office, or in a you know it or, and tell you about, that's not how it's going to happen. Like you have to hear it kind of slowly, you have to hear it as a building narrative, it takes a little time to take in the information. And after that, you know, you're on your way, like, so I like that you don't blame your doctors, but I'm gonna blame them for you a little bit. You don't have to, we don't teach people how to manage their insulin, we just tell them they have diabetes, and that carbs makes their blood sugar go up, and insulin makes their blood sugar go down. And then we're like good luck. And then they send them on their way. And then these little things that you're talking about, naturally pop up in life. And by the way, you don't just have diabetes, you also have a job or you go to school, you might be in a marriage that you're not happy with, you might be in a marriage you're really happy with, but there's a hole in your roof that you can't afford to fix, or any number of other obvious life things happen. While you're trying to figure this thing out, I've said over and over and over again, that I was able to come to these ideas. Partially because I was a stay at home dad, and I didn't have to get up and go to work every day. You know, I too many people are in that situation where it's basically they throw a patch on their diabetes and hope it holds till the next time they're able to look at it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:48
Right? Yeah, I mean, there's just it is a it is as they say, you know, the full time job that doesn't take a break. And I you reference that a lot. And I think it's upon all the other layers of life. It's exhausting. And I think one of the greatest gifts you can give to yourself as a person with diabetes or a caregiver is to be kind you know, you said don't don't wring your hands. Let's let the numbers be data for information for decision making in the future, but not a data point to say gosh, I really was terrible. I can't believe I didn't give myself enough insulin or Gosh, now I'm doing the diabetes roller coaster where I I was high and I overcorrected. Now I'm low, gosh, you know, then you get in your headspace. You know what I made a mistake. And that's okay. And I'm going to learn from this and move forward. As opposed to just ruminating in the number and the behavior that got you to that number.

Scott Benner 23:44
And I think Additionally, you have to have the foresight to realize that you can't make a mistake. If you don't know what you're doing. You don't mean like that's, that's an interesting concept, because you feels like you made a mistake. But if no one taught you, are you making a mistake? Like, you're gonna be like, how can I make a mistake about something I have no knowledge of whatsoever the mistake is made in the entirety of how we do this, of how, from the moment you're diagnosed, until the moment someone lets you go, they tell you a lot of really important stuff. And not, I mean, you brought it up a second ago, and we kind of always just like, skip over it, but I have contact with a lot of people. The idea of Pre-Bolus thing, which is honestly the idea of understanding how insulin works, is not mentioned to most people when they leave with it's just it's fat. It'd be like talent, it would be like if I gave you a driver's license, it didn't tell you gas was flammable. You know, FYI, you know,

Unknown Speaker 24:46
right, right.

Scott Benner 24:47
You just got to the gas station. I feel it's leaking all over the place. No big deal. No one mentioned to me this was a problem. Like it just you need to understand how certain things work so that you can be thoughtful about using them. Uh huh. I see you're making me upset.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:02
Oh, we you know, I thankfully there has been such a huge shift in trend with you know, the the American Diabetes Association has partnered with the American Psychological Association APA, the APA to recognize that there needs to be this focus on psychosocial care for people with diabetes, because the education piece that you are, you know, that you have done such a great job in broadcasting through your podcast is so crucial, combined with the psychosocial piece. And so I am grateful that there's been a big shift and and care for not only endocrinologist, but psychologists focusing in on that the emotional piece. Yeah, of what it's like that, you know, it's it's exhausting is the understatement, right?

Scott Benner 25:53
It's just it's the tools, you have to have the right tools, or you can't, you just can't, you can't build your box if you don't have a hammer. And that's that. And it's not, it's not that much more difficult. And like you're saying the other side of it is, is that while you feel like you're constantly failing, and failing and failing, and you're not just failing, but your health is deteriorating, and you're starting to feel worse, and worse, yet, you don't notice it after a while. All these things are just, you know, they feel insurmountable. And I think possibly, and I'm not just saying this, because you're here, the only way most people are going to be able to climb out of this hole is with third party help somebody who can break it down for them and show it to them piece by piece, and then give them direction about how to how to manage

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:41
it? Well. Yes, I think there is, you do need first to be, you know, aware of the signs and symptoms. And actually, as I was praying to come speak with you today, I found this website, it's called diabetes distressed.org. And you can actually take a survey to kind of assess your degree of distress and it highlights you know, don't worry if your numbers are higher, you know, joined to really prevent No, there's no shame around having to stress, but to first like, let's just try and go be aware of where you are in your level of distress and then it gives some options of what what do you need, you need to talk with your healthcare provider? Do you need to seek additional help with a mental health provider? Do you need to become more clear with your family? have what you need? Do you need help and problem solving? Or do you need just more validation from your family? or your partner whoever is you know, in your, your immediate family support system? I think understanding where you are is the first step and then kind of figuring out how can you help yourself through that process and being kind and compassionate to yourself is also really key.

Scott Benner 28:00
I think we should be deputizing sharpest diabetes Sherpas, I've just come up with this idea when you're talking because because you just said stuff that I could imagine a new blockade for every time we'll go to your doctor, what if my doctor sucks? You know, what if my doctor thinks a 7.8 a one sees great, like the and I don't think that or you know, and it's easy to to say to somebody like don't just see the number. But, but everybody's not great in a panic situation.

Unknown Speaker 28:30
You're gonna be like, there's

Scott Benner 28:31
there's certain people who, you know, there could be, you know, bombs going off around them, and they can stay focused on what they're doing. And there are certain people who hear the bombs and very reasonably jump on the ground and cover their head. So when when ever we can't count on everybody being so resilient in that moment.

Unknown Speaker 28:53
Mm hmm.

Scott Benner 28:54
You know, like they need somebody to take their hand and go Hey, look, you're in over your head. No big deal. Like it's that old story right? Like, guys down in the hole. his buddy walks by yells up Hey, Bill, can you give me a hand I'm stuck down in this hole and Bill jumps down in the hole with him. And the guy goes What are you doing like now we're both stuck down here and bogus. Now don't worry but down here before I know the way out like you need somebody who who can lead you out. And and I think that there's too many there are too many variables and and you're also counting on people to recognize which bucket they fit in. And then they have to go to the right person. Like you just need somebody to stop listen to your story and say, Okay, here's what you need my opinion. I'm going to try to get it to it and let me see if I can lead you forward. I've you've you've just given me a job for after the time when the podcast is over. I'm going to start diabetes shopping. And I think this is I think this is it because you don't need any special skills. Just to know the path that somebody else doesn't know and and is too confused too. find their way on at the, at the moment in their life that they find themselves in that situation.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:05
Right? I mean, yes, oftentimes you have someone coming alongside them, helping them through the process and just validation that, you know, I understand that you are in such a challenging and difficult spot and and also feeling like they're not alone. I think that's, you know, with, particularly with type one, it's you can feel very isolated that no one really understands the challenges, the nuances, the you know, every thought, every minute, there's a different thought probably about it about your diabetes management. I agree. And that can feel so isolating. And so I think reaching out for help just for that, to know that you're not alone is also a really crucial step. Yeah.

Scott Benner 30:55
No, I agree. Having some sort of community. I have to be honest, I've been shocked over the last number of years when people write to me privately to tell me that this podcast is their community. Even though they don't have a back and forth it's not a it's not a two way conversation. It's still everything they needed, was just knowing someone else existed in being able to listen to them.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:16
Yes. And and not feeling like they're alone in the process. And I think that's, that's, you know, one of the benefits of technology and your and your podcast and all of that many resources that you can access online.

Scott Benner 31:30
Yeah, no kidding. Okay, Sarika So, so somebody can come to this burnout phase, show up, find a therapist that understands diabetes, and hopefully find their way through it? Will the therapist help them with management to or no,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:45
no, and that's, that's a great clarification. You know, even though I have type one, you know, and I sometimes feel like I'm an expert, not always with my own management, I'm not the expert of everyone else's own personal management. And so I oftentimes will consult and collaborate with their health provider, with their doctor with their end with their CD. And, but I would not make decisions or suggestions around their insulin management or carb ratios. I would come alongside them and help them maybe figure out a behavior plan with either the caregiver or depending on the age of the person with diabetes, and help support them in that way. And kind of finding what what are the roadblocks to implementing that behavior plan. And also, just as we talked about, just kind of the validation of the challenges of living with diabetes such

Scott Benner 32:49
you've never, you've never leaned over the table, see the graph, I've been like you consider just up in your meal ratio a little bit?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:57
No, that would definitely be out of my scope of competence and practice. So yeah, that would not be appropriate.

Scott Benner 33:05
Well, good. Look at you, your principal person you Erica. So so let's look this is something I'd like to dig into this next thing that I'm constantly unarmored by which is I believe that when you're diagnosed with an illness, that is not it's not curable, that you go through the processes of grief. Am I right about that? Gee, voke hypo pain has no visible needle, and it's the first pre mixed auto injector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes, ages two and above. Not only is evoke hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about, all you have to do is go to G Volk, glucagon.com Ford slash juice box. g Vogue shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit G, Vogue glucagon.com, slash risk. Are you ready to ditch the daily injections or send your pump packing? If you are, it's time to try on the pod, the tubeless wireless continuous insulin management system. Here's all you have to do. Go to my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, scroll down a little bit and decide do you want to check your eligibility for a free trial or check your insurance coverage to see if you're covered. Maybe you're already sold and you just want an omni pod, just click on my coverage. I want to check my coverage, then fill out a tiny bit of information and you're on your way. Now if you're just looking for the free, no obligation trial to be sent to you, check my eligibility for a free trial, fill out your information. And that Omni pod will show up right at your house so you can give it a whirl. It's just a demo pod. Don't worry. You put it on you where'd you see what's up and the questions are super easy. You know My name my date of birth, do I have type one or type two or another type of diabetes? And how do I currently manage it's very simple, only takes a moment to get that free, no obligation demo, or to get started with the Omni pod at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. You want to learn more about touched by type one, check them out on Facebook, or Instagram or at touched by type one.org. So wonderful organization helping people living with Type One Diabetes touched by type one.org my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box g Volk glucagon.com, forward slash juice box support the sponsors support the show.

You go through the processes of grief. Am I right about that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:57
Absolutely. And I probably see the majority of my clients and families are mostly the newly diagnosed who are dealing kind of with the shock with the grief, kind of the the exploration of what what does this really mean for our family? It is it's a you know, it's a community that you don't really want to be a member of, but you're trying to figure out what how is this going to affect our daily lives and you know, some people, like for my, my family, for instance, I actually also have a younger brother with type one. Coincidentally, which, and I have an older sister who does not and no one else in my family have, we have no history of type one diabetes. So I had kind of that built in community with my brother, which was unique, but a lot of family. So you know, we're gonna, we're gonna fight through this, we're not going to let this affect us at all you can do all the things you want to do, we both played volleyball, he actually was this is my little brag spot, he was an Olympic gold medalist playing volleyball in Beijing. And so I just like to say that that you can do whatever you want to accomplish to us that you know, within the means of you managing it. So there are some families on that kind of end of the spectrum. And then there are other families who are really struggle and I it's understandable who, you know, how do we, how do I let my child go to school? And how do I trust other people to manage this, this is you know, thinking from a younger, aged person with diabetes, to a teenager who wants to go out or wants to drive. And now is kind of tat tasked with Well, you have to have your blood sugar in a certain range before you get to go out with your friends or drive your car. So it is such a huge shift, and obviously different with different layers and different complications based on the age. Yeah, but to answer your original question, yes, there is a huge sense of grief and loss around and sometimes it's just ambiguous loss. Like we don't we're not really sure what we're all at all that we know, we don't you don't really know, you know, everything no Sure, initially. And so there's this sense of like, ambiguous loss and grief. Yeah.

Scott Benner 38:25
Is denial always first? Um, or not necessarily, I guess the the stage but by the way, I've also heard from some psychologists who say that they don't call it the stages of grief anymore. Like there's other ways to think about it. There's some thought processes where there are seven stages, five stages, two stages. So keeping in mind, there are different ways to think about it, but I can tell you like right off the bat, I know that I I personally experienced denial, and it popped up around a honeymooning situation. Yes, right. As soon as you didn't need insulin as much, or, you know, there was this, this may be 24 hours for my daughter just didn't seem to need insulin at all. I'm sure she still did. But I was such a neophyte at the time. Less seemed like none and I got I got caught up in it to the point where I called my friend who's my my kids, pediatrician, and I was I was coherent enough to say to him, I actually said, Hey, I'm gonna say something after I say, tell me I'm wrong and hang up the phone. You know, I said, but you know, most people can't talk to their kids doctors that way, but I happen to happens to be a very good friend of mine. And so I said, I don't think Arden has diabetes. She hasn't used that much insulin. And he said, No, Scott Arden definitely has type one diabetes. This could happen, you know, in the beginning, and he described honeymooning to me back then, but I was in such a state. I didn't even hear what he was saying. I just heard him say, Stop hoping she doesn't have it, you know. And that was pretty early on in the first six month or so. And I wasn't, I wasn't out of my mind enough to just be thinking it all the time. But the minute that something concrete happened that opened up the possibility I ran through that door, right away. Everybody goes through that. Do you think denial?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:18
Oh, I, I would probably say I've and I can't say, you know, give a fact on that. But I would say a lot of people probably would kind of when you're, you're in shock, your denial, you're kind of trying to figure out what is this mean? Then there's this honeymoon period, which can last, you know, different lengths of time for different people. I think along with the denial, a lot of parents and my own included, feel guilt, or would rather say, Can I can I have this instead of my children? Or did I do anything to cause this? And so those are all really challenging feelings and thoughts to have. And so often, instead of kind of either expressing those or feeling those, and moving through them there is there can be that denial. But that's all part of Yeah, that the stages of grief and shock and like you said it, the stages of grief are not linear. They are cyclical. And so you can experience any of those stages at any point in time.

Scott Benner 41:20
We're all like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you that. I've seen. I've talked to people who, when they get to anger, they go a lot of different ways. It's, you hear, like, you know, I don't know how God can let this happen. Like, that's, that's one that I that I hear pretty frequently. Some people go take their anger and direct it right into domination. Like, we're going to support somebody who's going to cure this, we're going to find some, you know, a doctor who's working on something that you've never heard of before, like that anger gets, or I'm gonna keep my kids blood sugar at 84 constantly, and it's never going to move and they direct. I've seen them direct their anger at that as well. That could be exhausting, though. No.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:12
Oh, for sure. And the anger could it could also go to the you know, the burnout of I'm so over this, I'm so angry. I'm I just don't want to think about it. And so I'm gonna just ignore it.

Scott Benner 42:28
Okay, so could the anger like, kick, it could jump right to that, or just, I'm so mad at this, I'm gonna pretend doesn't exist, you could also be driving so hard to make it perfect that you end up burning yourself out through that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:42
Yeah, that was a that is an excellent point. Yeah, you can you can experience burnout from the other, like, I'm gonna just hyper focus on these numbers, I'm going to keep it in this perfect range. Yeah, you know, from 80 to 120. And keep it like, try to be a, quote, normal person. And that, as we know, is, is fairly impossible to do on a 24 hour, you know, 24 seven basis. And so you certainly can burn yourself out, particularly if you're the caregiver in that role. Because then that, that often leads to eat if you're going to be perfect, that often leads to feelings of guilt and shame. You know, like, how did I let it get to be 121? Yeah. And so it is, it can be a very messy cycle of trying to live in this, if anger is driving that trying to live in this perfect range. And that's where I would encourage, you know, the the self compassion piece to come in.

Scott Benner 43:37
So do you. Can you, I should have said, Can you explain the bargaining step to me? Because it's, that's the one that doesn't make sense with how my brain works. Like, I like I I saw it happen. I feel like I feel like bargaining covers, this is my fault, because there are no issues in my family, like, my people, or they're the people who feel like if they would have gotten to a doctor sooner, there could have been something they could have done about it. Right. You know, or it's my fault. I didn't see something like that. Is that all kind of falls under the bargaining portion?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:16
Yes. And I think it can happen fairly. It's common, particularly, you know, with parents, like I said, you know, bargaining like why can I have this instead of my child? And I think it happens because we often really don't know the initial trigger right to your pancreas not working the way it's supposed to. I think if we had a clear, you know, trigger and a clear explanation as to why the bargaining and the the either the guilt wouldn't happen as much I'm sure it would happen to certain degree because you still don't want your child living with a chronic illness. But that the confusion around the the actual diagnosis of Type One Diabetes is still very much You know, there. Yeah. And so we want it we always want to know why, like, how did something how Why did this happen? How could I have prevented it? Could I have done anything differently? Did I you know, do we use the wrong detergent? I mean, I hear all sorts of things that maybe it was because that my child broke their arm and their immune system was in shock. Or maybe it was because my child had the flu. You know, we, we want to always figure out the why. And we don't really know why with this. It's funny, I don't

Scott Benner 45:35
care about the why, like, even when I talk about blood sugars with people, I tell them, one of the biggest mistakes you make is staring at a high blood sugar wondering how it happened. Like I don't like I don't care how it happened, just use some more insulin and get it down. And so the bargaining the bargaining part didn't like, to me bargaining is that it's your brains last vestige right? To keep it from feeling sad. Like, yeah, right, you're trying to you're trying to stop yourself from getting to the depression part to the, to the grief part. And, and so you keep trying to figure out a way where this doesn't have to feel sad, and there's no, I don't, there's no way not to feel sad about getting diabetes, like it just it's not a great thing to find out that one part of your body stopped working and isn't going to start working again, sucks, you know, but but I get why it happens. But I wonder if people listening, can't hear what we're talking about right now. And then go back to any number of other episodes and other people's stories that you hear. And realize that all of their stories are just some version of the steps that you feel after something like this happens these stages. You know what I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:49
Yes, and, and then, you know, getting to some people say, you know, the last stage of grief is acceptance. But as I, you know, when a highlight, you can, you can accept the diagnosis for a period of time, but it's okay to go back to periods of feeling sad, you know, I love to tell the story. I, I had a stint, I worked at the jdrf in San Francisco, many, many years ago. And there were a lot of type ones on staff there. And there was one particular woman who had had it for over 50 years in great health. And she, I think it was either once a month or a couple times a year, she would take I hate diabetes day, she would take a she would take the day off, she would lay in bed, she would she would feel all the feelings, she would feel sad, angry, and then move on. And so she kind of had this planned out to be like, you know what, I'm living with it, I'm living successfully with it, she had a very, you know, robust life. But she still had these moments and created these moments for herself to feel sad and angry about it. And that was, that was her way of kind of coping. And that's okay, so even she lived in kind of the moat, the majority of her life was the life of acceptance and thriving, but it's okay to compact to feel like, gosh, you know, we all have different seasons of life. And there are going to be more challenging ones with with your diabetes, particularly in as you're growing and going through different seasons, I've been in hormones and different life stages and different stressors. So it's, it's okay, yes, to

Scott Benner 48:26
have those different emotions around it. So just because you got through the, the, the depression and grief state, and you got to acceptance, and you started thinking, Hey, you know what, it turns out, I figured out how to use my insulin and this sucks, but it's, you know, you know, everybody's it's like, Who's way better than this other thing that could have happened to me or, you know, whatever. So I'm feeling good about this. Now, um, I feel like I'm going a little more control of what's going on. And you start sort of just turning the corner, it doesn't mean that you can't remember one day that this sucks, if you don't just get the dislike, it's not the so it's for people's understanding, like the five stages of grief, I think is like an older idea. There's a seven stages of grief, that, that breaks things down a little differently, and is way more hopeful at the end where you kind of, you start putting things back together again, you're working through them, you accept what's going on, and you actually end up feeling very hopeful. And just because you feel hopeful today, doesn't mean that something won't that you know that your pump won't fail while you're on, you know, a roller coaster at Six Flags. And you won't be like, Oh, this is depressing. It's ruined my whole day like you can you're going to bounce in and out of these things as you go. And not just with diabetes, by the way, life in general. I don't know if people realize that. We're all very basic, like organisms, right? Like we just we sort of do the same things over and over again. And when we reapply them to different ideas, somehow we're like, oh, diabetes is sad. Well, everything is sad. At some point, you know, like I get depressed about things like everyone else has, the bigger issue ends up being for people who hit that depression, pothole. And for real, physiological reasons can't actually get out of it ever. Like everybody gets depressed sometimes, but most people are able to get through it, the people who aren't there now, now they've now found a new another new issue that they need to deal with.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:25
Yes, yes. And I think that's, it's important to note that, you know, when we're talking about diabetes distress, it's, you might experience a certain level of distress at certain points throughout your, you know, career with with diabetes, and that's okay. I think the, the important part is to be aware of when you feel like, as you just were describing, you know, when did stress becomes, you can, you can have diabetes, of stress and struggle with the elements of living with diabetes and not be depressed, because maybe you're functioning in other areas of your life, or your job, your, your family life, your friendships. If you're an athlete, you know, it's, it can be different. But when it becomes when diabetes distress is prolonged, and you aren't able to either recognize symptoms, or reach out for help, or have community around you, that can, you know, it can transition into, you know, a full blown depression, diagnosis. And I think that's, that's what we're trying to prevent, you know, before it kind of impacts and impairs all of your levels of functioning,

Scott Benner 51:33
are there just some people who are predisposed? And eventually they're going to have a turn in their life that is so impactful, that they're going to become depressed? Like it like that it's always going to happen.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:47
But that's, that's a great question. I feel like could be almost another another episode, I feel like you're asking like are people are people predisposed to having depressed thoughts or experiencing depression?

Scott Benner 52:02
The same idea with diabetes, like if you have the markers, the genetic markers for type one diabetes, then your likelihood of getting it goes up. And if this happens, and that happens, and everything just kind of goes wrong for you, boom, you have type one diabetes, there are other people who have those markers, who never end up with type one. And so I'm assuming there are people who have markers for depression that they're unaware of. And then if they have life, circumstances that push them in that direction, that they're more likely to get caught in a real depression than other people are, because I've had some fairly terrible things happen to me in my life. But I've never had long bouts of depression. And there are other people who have had things happen to them that you know, are equal to mine, or less or more, who gets stuck in it for ever. And so my assumption is that, I don't know. Do you understand what my assumption is? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:55
yeah. Yeah. Are you are you kind of more prone to either depressed thinking or experiencing depression? because of certain genetic markers? I would say? Yes, that that is certainly does exist. But there's also the other components of life like the, your, your resiliency, you the people around you, the support that you have, I think is really crucial. If you are experiencing a, you know, a triggering event that might lead to depressed thinking or symptoms, or clinical depression, the the capacity for you to reach out for help. And are those all due to genetic markers? Maybe are those due to the fact that maybe your the community around you can support you or not? There are a lot of different I'd say factors around that. But yeah, it's a it's a both it's Yes. Both? And to answer your question,

Scott Benner 53:56
do you think that people so people who maybe know, in the past that they've had trouble or gotten stuck for longer times, then maybe feels what they see normal around them? If something like this happens to them? Should they be running right to a therapist? Should they be should they literally like, leave the hospital and go and call the therapist and be like, hey, look, my kid was just diagnosed with Type One Diabetes, I got a feeling this isn't gonna go Well, for me, like, let's start now because I've interviewed people who have like, I just did an interview the other day, that will be out in a little bit where, you know, this, this woman describes an incredibly happy life. And then at one point, she felt suicidal and said she had never felt that way ever. And it was after a diagnosis for a child. And, and then, you know, just as you described to had had a spouse with her, that was able to, you know, kind of keeper focused as this thing had hold of her and it took a very long time for her to get through it, but she luckily had somebody with her in that moment. You know, she could by herself, I just feel like, you know, what if she was a single parent, or didn't have a lot of family around her, like, how do you? How do you make that decision to get help when getting help? Seems like another failure?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:16
Right, right, or just another problem. Another problem, another thing to do, and maybe if you are in, you know, at an extreme level, experiencing extreme levels of depression, you know, it's hard to motivate to do anything. Yeah. And I think if, if we're talking about this, within that scope of diabetes, I mean, hopefully, because there has been such a shift, and a trend in, in our medical health providers, or health care providers to be more aware of the psychosocial symptoms for not only the person with diabetes, but also for the caregivers, that they would be assessing, you know, both both parties, at their level of their psychosocial care, their mental health. And so my, my hope would be that, that would be the starting point, you know, whether you're, you're coming in for your, your checkup, or you're bringing your child in for a checkup that they would be asking those questions. And if not, that you would be able to tell them, you know, how you're doing? And your question is, what if it becomes to a place where you feel like you can't reach out for help? I think that's where it may be reaching out for a mental health support is too much. Maybe exploring in sites like your like your podcast, you know, realizing that I think depression likes to tell the person that they are alone in that. And that becomes isolating, and it feels really scary to be in that state of mind. And so recognizing that you're not alone in that, and if it just means listening to your podcast, if it means going on a different website. jdrf just had their their summit, and there's a lot of great resources on their website from their summit this over the summer.

Scott Benner 57:07
Oracle, what was wrong with the idea of listening to the podcast? What are you doing driving people? What are you doing? I'm just kidding. Wherever you can find help. I'm happy for you to find it. Well, okay, so I know we're up on an hour. Do you have a little time beyond the hour if I drag you past it? Or you have a heart out?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:24
Um, I have. I have a little bit extra time. Yes. Okay.

Scott Benner 57:27
So I have one more question. As a real simple thing real quick. Is it true, I was told this at my daughter's diagnosis that the that in America, one in two marriages end in divorce, but when you have a critically or chronically ill child, excuse me, it goes to two and three?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:48
Well, I don't I don't, I can't back that. But

Scott Benner 57:51
is it more likely you're gonna get divorced if your kid gets sick?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:55
Gosh, I hope not. No, but I think like any other major stressor will be at financial or, you know, JOB, JOB insecurity. And that's chronic, you know, any other chronic stressor in a marriage is, is a challenge. But I think the important pieces, and I think you mentioned this in one of your podcasts that, you know, if one parent is the sole caregiver for the person, for the child with diabetes, that's, that's there's going to lead to burnout and maybe some feelings of resentment, unless that's already established. And you've communicated that. And that's the way you all want it to be, which would be hard to believe if that's if but if that's how your family setup works, then that's great. But I think the communication piece is so key and understanding without a sum without assuming, okay, well, you know, mom's at home, so she's going to take care of Bobby, or vice versa, like in your case. And so I think if there's the communication around that, that would help prevent issues of resentment.

Scott Benner 59:13
Oh, it's really easy to be like, Look, I'm doing everything and you're doing nothing. And, you know, because you cuz especially in the beginning, if you don't know what you're doing, it's already mind numbing. And then you start having that feeling like you're killing the person because you can't figure out how to use the insulin. That's an added thing, then you feel like you're alone and you're by yourself and no one's helping you. And then when your spouse acts like, Oh, that's your job. You're like, oh, wait a second. You know, like, I would love help, but it's also not reasonable like my wife and I came to the conclusion that it needed to be one of us, because as we tried to pass it back and forth, we would just we found it impossible because we found ourselves having to, like you know, recount everything that had happened. Like the nine hours prior, like, okay, so for breakfast, you know, it's six o'clock at night and you're telling someone who just got home from work, I breakfast this happen, we use this much, and it happened and bla bla bla bla, and then at lunch and then this and that you feel like you have to you feel like a nurse passing off to another nurse. Right? And so one day we were like, Alright, look, I'm gonna take care of it, we won't pass it back and forth, because this wasn't working for us. And so I don't feel any, like, bad feelings around the fact that it's, it's more me than it is her. But how did it just happen that way? Had she just like buried her head or like, you know, turned her back on me and started kicking up the ground. Like she found something interesting. While I was doing diabetes, I would have been angry, like, quite right, you know?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:43
Right. So yeah, you guys had that kind of pre determined role and responsibility set. And I think that's, that's key, you know, a lot of a lot of arguments or misunderstandings in just in marriages in general is without, you know, the assuming things, feeling like someone's someone has responsibility to do something when maybe it's a joint responsibility. So I think that's, that's great that you guys had that opportunity to have that conversation and agreement. Eric, I'm

Scott Benner 1:01:14
gonna ask you to generalize, then you're gonna tell me you're not going to, but it's not going to stop me from asking, okay, I've realized You're too professional. And you're on the ball. By the way, you must be really good at what you do. Because I talk in big word pictures. And you remember my question and come back to it afterwards, which I find incredibly impressive. I don't hear you're making think so. Well done. But look at me. I'm just like, I'm so impressed by that. Well, thank No, seriously. But here, here's my here's my statement that I'm going to ask you to agree with or tell me that I'm wrong. Boys are boys, and then they grow up and become men, and then they marry people. And then they're not as much help as the women just say it right? Like weak women are more generally speaking, focused. And familial, and guys are more like I made money already. Let me get to my PlayStation like that kind of like, Is that true? I know, there are some men who aren't I'm obviously one of those men who isn't like that. But for the most part, if we were just going to generalize, women are screwed, right? Go ahead set.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:19
Well, I'm curious, I'm curious as to where where you're going with this,

Scott Benner 1:02:22
I grew up in a blue collar world where men did not get involved in family. Uh huh. And then, and it all seems to be like this, you know, quiet agreement that people come to in their marriages, I do this, he does that he does this, I do that blah, blah, blah. And it all kind of works out. And the resentment is quiet takes decades to build. But then when you bring in the diabetes, real quick, everything gets jacked up. And now suddenly, he's not just ignoring the fact that the Christmas decorations need to go back in the basement. He's ignoring the fact that your kids blood sugar's 250. And now, and now what ends up happening is this goes from a thing that I find irritating because the house is a little bit of a mess, or we haven't fixed the hole on the roof or something like that, too. We're killing our kid and you don't seem to care. And then it has been my, my experience. And what I've witnessed from other people, is that women appear to have a genetic component to them that once they give birth to a child, they care very much about that child, and a lot less about everybody else who is not that child. So now you suddenly went from being like my boyfriend who became my husband becoming this guy who doesn't care about this 250 blood sugar, and now you're a danger. And am I wrong about all that? Like, that's just how I see people?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:46
Yeah, well, I think, you know, I, you're right, I'm not gonna generalize, because you wouldn't be as you're a professional. I because, you know, look, look at you. Okay, some point, I think there are families who create different structures for them within themselves. I think the issues that you are, like the example that you just gave, occurs, when there's not there's no communication, and that now they've gotten they've just kind of, you know, the partners have been set in their ways. And for better or for worse, and then when a when a major stressor occurs, such as a diagnosis, the, the rhythms and routines can become obviously troubling, but then then it's exactly exacerbated because now we're talking about our child who it's it feels life or death, you know, to manage their diabetes care. Yeah. And so if there's already this built in resentment that I'm doing, I'm doing x but you're doing y, but now you're not helping me with my child with our child. That creates obviously a major conflict And so I would, I would encourage people to, you know, what, what you have modeled and just explained within your family system, every family system is different. And while you know, there, there might be stereotypes of what the male or female or different partners do. It doesn't really matter when it comes down to your child who's living with diabetes, to get really clear with who was doing what, and what does that look like on a daily basis? Because if it's not clearly communicated and understood, then that resentment and that burnout is going to happen for the caregiver. And then you know, who knows what's happening for the child with the diabetes?

Scott Benner 1:05:46
Allow me now to argue the other side of it? Because really, did I believe what I said? Or was I just painting a picture, okay, and now, so here's the next side of it, right? You can get into a situation where, hey, you one person are in charge of the kids, you make decisions like this, I'm not involved, I haven't been involved in two years, three years, four years, five years, I feel out of the loop, you seem to be doing such a good job with the diabetes, this is a scary thing. I don't know anything about it. I'm very afraid to mess it up. So I think that there can be a time where one of the spouses looks disengaged, but is really just frightened out of their mind. Yeah, but doesn't have the extra problem of being the person with the kid. So they get to walk away from it. Whereas you are frightened out of your mind. But you're stuck there making the decision. So you figure something out, tried, it doesn't work, try something else, this works. Now you're going through trial and error on your side, the other person's not going through that. And because of that, they can feel more like, hey, maybe I should stay out of this. I think there are plenty of people who heard me say the first thing that I said and thought, yeah, that's right, my husband or wife is is an apple, and they don't help me with this, and blah, blah, blah. But I also think that that person could have heard it and thought I just don't want to mess this up. And it seems really important, and I don't know what I'm doing. I think that there's a misunderstanding, almost constantly between married people, like I think we mischaracterize each other almost constantly. Do you think that's true? You talk to married people? Do people not really understand each other?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:07:24
Well, I think not not consistently, but I think there are moments or events, or going back to you notice any stressor that might challenge our, our understanding of one another of what the you know, relationship looks like? I think, you know, I'd be curious and, you know, I have seen couples who are, you know, we I'm working with it with the child with diabetes, but also the couple who are are struggling with that dynamic of, well, you know, she takes care of the house and I and I do the diabetes, or vice versa. Or, you know, whatever, whatever role is defined for each person. But then there's that the fear of not knowing or maybe the other person is feeling like the partners passive in the in the children's care, diabetes care. So it all goes back to what are what is everyone feeling in the moment? Let's communicate around that. I mean, I'm curious if you do have check in times with your wife like, does she want to, to be more a part of the care

Scott Benner 1:08:34
or you better know if she's mad money making money, Erica, she better not lift her head up, I need her working your stand. She's not allowed to look up, she's allowed to eat, use the bathroom twice and work. That's it. That's her job. Now I know, we are we, when when life allows. we bump into each other and fill each other end, when that really ends up being how it goes. I would love to tell you that I have a specific time for it. But that's not reasonable. You know, sometimes it's before bed, which by the way completely kills the idea of having sex when you're like, oh, the kids are having trouble with school and blah, blah, and you're just like, I'm gonna go to bed now. That we're you know, like, we'll stop. I have to be honest, because of COVID. We're around each other more often. We just had a conversation before I jumped on with you about something that would not have happened before. And I'm going to tell you from my experience, these little like pitstops are super important because once they get to build up, your conversations turn into this mishmash of like you blurting out a bunch of stuff you meant to say her trying to respond she blurting out a bunch of stuff she meant to say you try and respond. I've never seen one of those conversations go well in my life. But you know, like you have to everyone smile, stop and say, Hey, did you see that this happened? Or that you know, college said that they're going to go back but this that doesn't seem right. Maybe we should figure something else out because keep people thinking about things over time. They're To me, it's just a constant conversation. Yes. And it's yes doesn't always go great. It's just the best you can do. The problem with managing a life is that you're trying to live one at the same time. Yes, there's two competing things happening in every second of your day.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:10:16
Yes, and I think sometimes for the caregiver, you know, the caregiver just might need some validation to I think it's important, just like we're asking, I would ask the person with diabetes to ask for what they need, do they need some more problem solving? Or do they need some validation? I mean, those aren't the only two things you could be asking for. But those are kind of the main points. And just like, you know, apply those same ideas to the caregiver, does the caregiver needs some more problem solving around how to manage your child's diabetes? Or are they just wanting some validation of like, Wow, it must be really hard to really monitor you know, Bobby's blood sugar's while also trying to do all the things you want to do for your own life. That must be really, really challenging. And thank you so much for doing that. I mean, I think, like, basic validation, and gratitude goes a long way. But to be to ask for what you need as a caregiver, and also for the person with diabetes if you're able,

Scott Benner 1:11:15
and this goes for being married in general, right, like, because I think that I think that overall, people think there's two ways that marriages end either you just get sick of each other, and you go your separate ways, or you give up and die. And that's not those shouldn't be the two basically conceived endings of how marriage go.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:33
And

Scott Benner 1:11:34
I think there's a way to realize that there, you're shooting for a long time, that there are going to be good days and bad days, good weeks, and bad weeks, good months and bad months, good years and bad years. Like I once told my wife when we were first married, she's like, what's your expectation for all this? I said, Well, listen, if we stay married our whole life, it'll end up being maybe about 40 years, if we're lucky. I think if we have, you know, 10 really great years and 10 Okay, years and five years, it sucked in five years that weren't too bad. that'll probably be pretty good. You know, like, like, I mean, I think that a striving for perfection constantly, is a bit of a fool's errand. And it really just leaves you more let down than fulfilled. I think there's Yes, you know, what I mean, like, everything can't be perfect all the time.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:12:21
That's exactly and it leads to the thinking of, you know, I'm I'm not a good enough. You know, parent, I'm not a good enough caregiver. I'm not a good enough partner, spouse. And so yes, the the validation, the gratitude and the self compassion are our key. Yeah. to kind of get through the long haul of diabetes when they're in a family system for sure. Right.

Scott Benner 1:12:45
Yeah. Once you've heard my stories, 800,000 times, there's got to be something else that makes you go, I'd still be okay, waking up tomorrow, if he was here. And like that, you know, and I think what you just said is really important is that we're all just, I mean, listen, I can be completely honest, I need validation, just like everybody else does. I know, I'm doing a good job. But if the people I'm working so hard for don't appear to care, then what's the point of it? You know what I mean? And they can you can feel like that at some point, like, nobody seems to care. And I get that, you know, nobody's gonna run around telling you, I really appreciate my laundry being clean. You know, and I'm not looking for that. I'm not looking for someone to come up to me every five minutes. But there's a moment where, you know, Arden has Chinese food going into a donut and I don't let her blood sugar go over 110 where it would be cool. If someone would look over and be like, Damn, you're good at that. I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:13:37
like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:13:40
say that. I'll say that. That's really impressive. Erica,

Scott Benner 1:13:42
put your ABC right in the fives. No trouble you come over here. I really appreciate you doing this. I this conversation was everything I hoped it would be. And I'm hoping you might decide to come back on more than once because I think there's a lot more to talk about in this was great.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:14:00
Oh, wonderful. I would love to thank you. I really I really enjoyed it as well.

Scott Benner 1:14:08
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, g Volk, glucagon, find out more about chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box, you spell that GVO ke GLUC AG o n.com forward slash juice box. Don't forget you can get your free no obligation demo of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box and learn more about touched by type one at touched by type one.org or on their Facebook or Instagram pages.

If you're listening in a podcast app Please press subscribe, and if the show has been valuable to you, please share it with someone else. Have a great day. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast. You can learn more about Erica at Erica forsyth.com erikaforsyth.com

#406 Patrolling with Type 1 Diabetes

Sean is a Police Officer living with type 1 diabetes

Sean is a 26-year-old police officer who employs the tips and tricks discussed on the podcast to keep his glucose levels stable so that he is able to more readily respond when his job throws something unexpected at him while he works rolling daytime and overnight shifts, as well as potentially adrenaline-spiking SWAT-team roles. He wants to show other Type 1 diabetics that it is more than possible to join the force if they are interested.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 406 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's show is sponsored by Dexcom, makers to the G six continuous glucose monitor the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, and touched by type one touched by type ones 20th annual dancing for diabetes show is virtual this year. And you can watch it at touched by type one.org. It'll be available on November 14. That's this Saturday, November 14 2020. At 7pm eastern time, I just spoke with Elizabeth the other day, and they filmed the entire event in a huge auditorium said it was really exciting. And definitely worth your time. You know what else is worth your time the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump and you can get a free no obligation demo of that pod sent directly to your home absolutely for the free by going to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box and of course@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box you can find out a lot about the Dexcom g six, like how to get it what it is. And oh by the way, if you get your health care through the VA Dexcom is now covered.

Shawn lives with Type One Diabetes. He's a husband and a police officer. And today we're gonna talk about a little of all of that here on the Juicebox Podcast. Key Imagine if I did it all like that. I'd be like, oh, welcome to the Juicebox Podcast Today Show. Anyway, Sean's a cop. I grew up around a lot of police officers. And so I have a little bit of background about what it's like to be a police officer tiny little bit, a little bit of background. And generally, if you understand I'm saying to Shawn, and I got along very well. He told me how the podcast helped him what it's like to do his job with Type One Diabetes. And he wanted to come on to encourage young people who'd like to be in law enforcement, and who are living with Type One Diabetes, to know that they can. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Searching for Spanish to blooms on the bottom of the oceans are becoming bold with insulin. Oh, I've piqued your interest, haven't I? Let's get to song.

Sean Hunter 2:40
I'm Sean Hunter. I'm 26 years old, from Camden County, New Jersey. I'm a type one diabetic, then diabetic for 17 years. And I'm a police officer also in Camden County, New Jersey. And that's why I was interested in coming on and talking to you, Scott.

Scott Benner 2:58
That's amazing, because I think you're the first police officer that's reached out and said, You know, I I'm happy for you to tell people on police. I think I've interviewed other police officers, but they haven't brought up what they are. Which is interesting sometimes, but I was I was really pleased with the, with your with your note, interestingly, I grew up around, you're gonna be able to tell in a second because I'm gonna say cops instead of police officers because I don't know how often I can say police officers, but I grew up around cops, and right. Just one of my best friends in the whole world with time. And then sort of by proxy, you get drawn into their life a little bit. So you know, I've been at picnics with 40 police officers are going on motorcycle rides with 50 guys that are all cops, you know, in the middle of the night, which by the way, if you've never ridden a motorcycle at midnight with 50 cops gear you're missing.

Sean Hunter 3:50
It sounds like fun.

Scott Benner 3:53
there's a there's a real feeling that we can't get a ticket if you know what I mean. Yeah. Anyway,

Sean Hunter 4:00
yeah, I was sorry, Clay off. I was I was just excited to come on and try and give some, you know, point of view from the law enforcement side, you know, hope play, there's people out there that are type one diabetics that are cops and they're, you know, can listen to this. Or, you know, maybe there's kids out there that are that want to be copson they're kinda skeptical because of the diabetes. I'm trying to, you know, open it kinda

Scott Benner 4:27
possible, right? Yeah. Well, you know, there's a real irony in this that last night, I edited a episode that's going to go up today, with a young woman in Massachusetts, I think she's 26 honestly, when I recorded whether she'd only had diabetes for about a nine months when I recorded with her and she wants to be a police officer. And it's just it's very strange as I didn't you know, I didn't schedule that to happen like that, obviously, but it was it was really interesting. So let's talk a little bit first about being diagnosed when you're nine. So that's old enough to have a memory of it. I imagine. And probably in one of those sweet spots for boys where I don't imagine you were thrilled to find out.

Sean Hunter 5:07
Yeah, so obviously I was not years old. I was it was during the summer, I don't really remember the date. But all I remembers that one of the most distinct memories, I was at a pool party, and, you know, I really couldn't quench my thirst, which is one of those, you know, signs. And instead of drinking water, you know, I'm a little kid, I wanted to drink soda, which obviously was then splitting my blood sugar up higher, which I had no idea about. But then my parents, you know, throughout the night, that the next couple of nights, they were keep an eye on me, they thought I was dehydrated. My dad's an EMT. So he said, you know, pay to my mom on pay, take him to the hospital. Maybe he's just dehydrated, they'll give them some fluids and send them home. When we went to the hospital, I went in told the intake person my symptoms, they brought me immediately back because they know the symptoms of diabetes. And I was kind of in that age group. Yeah. And they tested my sugar and I was 898. Wow,

Scott Benner 6:09
you're well on your way to something. Had you? Do you remember how you felt poorly? For how long prior to that? Did it come on quickly? Or what's what is hindsight then tell you how it was happening? Do you remember,

Sean Hunter 6:20
it was probably like three to five days that I was, you know, feeling really bad throwing up a lot. Obviously, using the bathroom a lot, not keeping any food down. And I my mom said my my eyes were sinking back, you know, just look like I was dying, which I

Scott Benner 6:36
was. Yeah. So you were in decay?

Sean Hunter 6:39
Yeah, pretty much. And I you know, I don't really have I don't really have any memory of that. The only memory I have of being in the hospital is that my mom was so nervous that she went to get her insurance card out of her purse, and she dropped like $300 worth of change on the floor that she had in her purse. was like the last you know, like, yeah,

Scott Benner 6:59
sure, on Vita mom's always have so much change in their purse, like I dated a girl for a long time. She never had a quarter and then suddenly I had a couple babies with her and she's got to fistfuls a change in her purse. I don't understand. Yeah,

Sean Hunter 7:12
I don't know why. But it was it was just a little bit of laughter to kind of break the the seriousness of the situation. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:17
Now that's, that's amazing. Hey, listen, your voice is cutting in and out on me a little bit. Okay, so when you're pausing, it's you probably have noise cancelling on your headphones. And so every time you stop talking, it wants to take away background noise. So let's try to figure out a way around that. First of all, is that are those The only headphones you have? Do you have like gamer headphones or something like that by any chance?

Sean Hunter 7:40
I don't think so. I can check.

Scott Benner 7:42
Even Apple just on the wire with the microphone in the cord.

Unknown Speaker 7:47
Let me go Look,

Scott Benner 7:48
I don't believe so. Okay, and if not, I have another idea. So your mom has her little moment of levity that kind of breaks the ice a little bit. You go back were you in the hospital long? How long do they keep you

Sean Hunter 8:01
so that night, they gave me fluids brought my sugar back down, I assume you know, insulin and all that stuff. And then they transferred me to chop in Philly. And I stayed there for a week.

Unknown Speaker 8:16
Week.

Sean Hunter 8:18
Yeah, so I was there for a week for education, I guess. And but I specifically remember being there for a week and playing Xbox and doing all this cool stuff at CHOP. You know, it was it was a cool hospital for kids. So

Scott Benner 8:31
they do a nice job there of, of taking care of kids. You know, you and I live pretty near each other right?

Sean Hunter 8:37
Yeah, that's that was another reason I wanted to talk to you is kind of cool. having another new jersey in?

Scott Benner 8:41
Yeah. Yeah, so that's, that's that's Arden's hospital. That's not where she was. Not where she was diagnosed, but it's where her endocrinologist is out of Do you use a an adult endo now in New Jersey?

Sean Hunter 8:54
Yeah. So I use um, Cooper. endocrinology, I just commented on your post in the group actually, the other day use a Dr. Becker from Cooper.

Scott Benner 9:05
It's funny, you were not the only one that brought up that practice. So that's usually a good sign when people are like, Oh, this place this place, you know? Yeah, that's excellent. It's hard to find to a good adult endocrinology. And you would have some feeling about that, too, because you left chop that does a really good job for kids. And did you be able to find Cooper right away? Or was there any struggle in between?

Sean Hunter 9:30
Yeah, so I actually stayed with chop until I think I was 20 or 21. I really didn't want to leave and and I was, you know, I was the really old guy going in and seeing all these little kids. So they kind of pushed me out. But I found Cooper really easily. They referred me there and it was a good transition.

Scott Benner 9:47
It's a funny image, by the way of you just you rolling through like Hey, guys, what's up?

Sean Hunter 9:52
Yeah, on the veteran walking through with these little kids that are diagnosed.

Scott Benner 9:57
So how old were you when you thought You want to be a police officer?

Sean Hunter 10:02
going throughout high school? I think so like in that 14 to 18 range. I grew up with public servants in my family. And, you know, I enjoyed seeing them go out and make a difference in the world. And that's the reason why I wanted to become a cop. So I think as of then, it really, you know, drew my attention, I wanted to go do it. And then I, you know, obviously went to college and studied criminal justice and, you know, started to pursue that career field.

Scott Benner 10:36
And there are two paths, there's two paths to it, am I correct that you can go to college and take a criminal justice track? Or you can just go right to the police academy to is, is that the other option? Or is that not like that anymore?

Sean Hunter 10:49
No, that's true there,

there are a lot of different options, you could actually even pay your own way through an academy, um, without having really any I mean, I think you need some sort of college credits. But you can pay your own way through and then kind of get hired out of the police academy with that, you know, police training, commission certification,

Scott Benner 11:09
so I grew up around a, like I said, a lot of police officers, none of them directly in my family, but good friends, you know, through my, my late teens, who are a little older than me, and I know, scads of great cops, people who want to be cops, for the right reason, do a great job at it. I've been at it for decades. And I've seen a couple who were sketchy along the way. But I have the greatest sketchy story that I'm going to share with you at some point, because it's hilarious. And, and I and I want to, I've never said this on the podcast before. But when I was 18, because of being around these people, and having no real direction in my life, I thought, I'd like to be a police officer, and my local town was hiring three, right. And so back, then they put out a test, and you took the test, and that test would whittle down. And then there was a, you know, interviews and it went down to this process, then they chose from that group of people and sent those people off to the police academy. So I'm barely 19 years old by the time the test comes up. And, Sean, it's weird when you hear me talk on the podcast, because I probably seem like an idiot. But I, I'm bright in strange ways that don't show in regular life, which is right, it was just, it's hard to put into words. But this test ended up basically just being an IQ test. It was a fancy IQ test. And I crushed it. And so when I first told, you know, a friend of mine, who back then was just an officer, you know, that I wanted to do this, the first thing he said was, you mean, you're 19 they're not going to give you a gun. He's like these, like, you're never going to get through this process. He's like, you're old enough, technically, you know, air quotes, but no one's gonna let you be a cop when you're 19. And I was like, I'm gonna take the test anyway. So I take the test and, and just days before the test, the lieutenant comes to my house and says, Hey, listen, we think this is great. But you know, you need to know you're too young, and we're not gonna, you're never gonna make it through. And I was like, okay, and it seems all very, like, you know, I was like, Alright, I understand this. But I did so well on the test that they couldn't weed me out. So the next thing I know, I have an interview. And it's me and want the top 20 people. And you know, you're young, I just figured I must have been the 20th person. And at the end of the interview with some of the lieutenants, and desert in certain designated officers. At the end, they told me how well they thought I did. And of course, that I wasn't going to make it to the next round, because, you know, I'm 19. And then a couple weeks later, the letters come out, and I make it to the next round. And now I'm in the interviews with a 10. By the time it was over, I was top six for that.

Unknown Speaker 13:58
Because I really wanted, you

Scott Benner 13:59
know, well, they they wanted me to be older is what they wanted, you know, but I hadn't done anything yet that made them think we can't just tell him No, like he's doing better in these interviews than people. And he did you know, and so when it got down to the top six, I actually by then I was like, is this gonna happen? Like, even I started, I'm only 19 they probably shouldn't give me a go. Look, I started having that thought. And, you know, it eventually went away gracefully. And people were very nice about it. And you know, the the end result was You're too young to be a police officer in our eyes and but you know, try again, and by the time and you know, like openings don't come that often it was a smaller price. And by the time they did I sort of in my mind moved on. But it was a very strange like nine month period where everyone in the town was like I began to give that kid a gun but it's exactly how it felt for a while. But But you went to college and you got a you know, a criminal justice degree. Did anything in college dissuade you? Or were you like straight on the whole way? Like, this is what I'm gonna do. Um,

Sean Hunter 15:06
so I think originally, before I went to college, I wanted to do something like physical therapy or physical therapy, personal trainer kind of background. I'm really into sports. And you know, I played baseball throughout college. But I really wanted to help people and you know, serve. And that was one of the things that I, I really wanted to do. So I don't think anything really dissuaded me after I went to college. If anything, it pushed me forward, you know, having really good professors who were retired police officers, lieutenants, chiefs and stuff like that, that, you know, really pushed me towards that goal.

Scott Benner 15:47
And you're not, you're not a cop in a, like, a nice little town like the one where I was trying to be a police officer, like, you're, you have a tough job, don't you?

Sean Hunter 15:57
We're in a smaller town, but we are, you know, definitely a pretty busy town with with a lot of different calls for service and, you know, some pretty serious crimes that happen. So it's, you know, it's, we definitely get our share of fun stuff that happens.

Scott Benner 16:11
Yeah, I have an acquaintance from years ago, who's an older gentleman, older than I. And he was, I did a task force in South Jersey serving drug warrants. And he said he could only do it for about a year, he says, most heartbreaking, horrible job he had ever had in his life. And about a year into it, he went back to his chief, and he's like, I can't do this anymore. Like, yeah, it needs to be someone else.

Sean Hunter 16:38
Yeah, I actually started my career in a pretty infamous city down in South Jersey. I worked there for almost three years. And then I switched departments. And I'm in a, like I said, a smaller town now, but still pretty busy.

Scott Benner 16:53
You know, you and I might have a conversation after this is over, because the stories he told me were not they're not appropriate for the show. They have nothing to do with diabetes, but they're horrifying. And, and they've shaped a lot about how I think about some of the jobs people have to do. So you know, so you're, you're into helping people with your father's health, your father knows he's still an EMT.

Sean Hunter 17:16
He, so he slowed down a little bit on the EMT side, he's a paid firefighter, he actually just got promoted to Deputy Chief, he actually works in the same town I work in as a police officer.

Scott Benner 17:25
Isn't that interesting? My dad did volunteer firefighting. When we were kids, he never became professional at it. But he was a dedicated guy who kind of broke the what some people might have is a, I don't know, a vision of what a volunteer fireman is a guy trying to get away from his family drinking beer at the back of a of a building, it has a couple of fire trucks in it, but he really cared about it and, and did really good work. And for a number of years. You know, especially before alarm systems became common, there were a lot more fires, like the realize or not, things don't burn down as much as they used to 20 years ago. But he was a firefighter during a time in our town and surrounding places where things really, really, they needed firefighters and there were some serious building fires. And I actually did it for three years, through my teenagers as well. And I only did it for three years, but I learned a lot about being calm. Okay, and not freaking out when most other people are freaking out. And it's it's an interesting thing until you've stood in a room that is completely on fire, like walls, ceiling, and you've got a hose in your hand and you know, the you went in there to save the building but you realize now you're then there to save yourself. You know, it's a it's a it's a different thing. And and I wonder about that with being a police officer, like how much of your day is spent? Like how hard is that? I guess is my question to go out into the world with a with the idea. I'm out there trying to help other people, but your first thought is always I can't help them. If I'm dead, like is that in your head constantly? What's it like to be on the street? It's my question.

Do you or someone that you love, use insulin? Give type one or type two diabetes? Are you finding that your blood sugar gets low, you become sweaty, disoriented, it gets very high you feel sick to your stomach? Would you like to stop that from happening which like to be able to address those issues with carbohydrates or insulin as necessary and needed without having to poke a hole in your finger a bazillion times a day. You can do that with the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. That's available@dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Find out when your blood sugar is on the move because Dexcom will show you not only what your blood sugar is, let's say 125 but it'll show you what direction it's moving in, up or down or is it steady and how quickly Is it moving in one of those directions? Are you moving one point a minute to three Dexcom can tell you I can tell you in real time, and it can show you right there on your iPhone or Android. And if you don't want that information on your phone, you can carry a dexcom receiver with you. Now you tell this receiver or your phone, this is the range I'm comfortable in. But please, when I fall below this number, go above this number. Tell me just like my daughter's just it. My daughter's dex calm is telling me that her blood sugar's over 120 by beeping like that, by 120, because that's where we set it. And you could set your own range and have a better fuller picture of what your blood sugar is doing. dexcom.com forward slash juice box. And by the way, this is new. If you're using the VA, to get your insurance Dexcom is now covered. Go to the link. When it asks you what kind of insurance you have. You just say, VA that easy dexcom.com forward slash juice box, the how you're going to get that insulin? Well, you could use an omni pod tubeless insulin pump like my daughter has been doing since she was four years old. Arden, by the way, is over 16 now, and she's been using an omni pod every day. During that time. It's an absolute friend in life with Type One Diabetes. And if you're using insulin for type two diabetes, same thing, my omnipod.com forward slash juice box, here's the greatest part, they're going to send you if you like a free, no obligation demo of the Omni pod, it'll come directly to your home where you can try it on and wear it for yourself, where you can see what tubeless means not being tethered to something not having to wear a pack with insulin in your belt or your bra or something like that. This thing's all in one tiny, it's compact, easy to wear, you can hide it, or wear it out loud and proud doesn't matter. And when you do need to do something with your insulin, the controller is completely separate from the pump. And it's easy to carry in your pocket or purse on the pod is definitely something you want to look at. If you're considering leaving injections, or you're looking to leave your tube insulin pump my Omni pod comm forward slash juice box, check it out. Last thing of course touched by type ones 20th annual dancing for diabetes show is this Saturday, November 14 2020. At 7pm touched by type one.org. Go check out all the kids and their amazing dance routines. It has to be virtual this year. But everybody has their fingers crossed for next year being back in person dancing for diabetes.org dexcom.com forward slash juicebox my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box the links in your show notes links at Juicebox podcast.com. Now it's time to find out more about living with Type One Diabetes. And being a police officer.

Sean Hunter 23:15
It's definitely in the back of your head. And you always have to think about that. When you're going, you know to calls for service or you're stopping cars or anything like that, you always have to think about their situations and because if you're not thinking about it, and something happens, you're not going to be able to react to it. But it can't let it you know, take over you know your mind and take over the situation you have to obviously we have a job to do. Whether that is to help someone or if we end up having to arrest someone or you know anything like that. Like I said, you can't really let those thoughts take over that situation. But it always has to be in that the back of your mind. I've been to a lot of training. And I've listened to a lot of people talk and they kind of talk to they're talking about it like like flipping your switch, you always have to have a little bit of violence on standby, you know. And that's, that's something that you have to train and you get used to as you gain experience on the job. You know, you can't expect the guy with six months on the job to come in and say, you know, be able to flip that switch. But, you know, maybe a guy with five or 10 years old job he's more acquainted with that violence that he has on standby. He can. If he has to use it, he can, you know,

Scott Benner 24:36
yeah, it's a special person that can kind of walk that line and I have always seen with the people I know who are police officers, that some of the hardest. One of the hardest things they have to do personally, I think is be able to separate I guess I don't know a better way to say it. But I what I noticed is that their entire day is spent with people who are breaking the law or trying to get over or something like that? And then how hard is it not to, in your personal life think that everybody's trying to get over and treat people like people when you're home, but be have enough, you know, I don't know, just, you know, understanding of what the world can be like, you often don't find a job where you're directed at crime constantly, or people who are in that mindset. And I know, you'll still run into citizens who need help, and they're obviously not thinking like that. But when you get there, right, when you get out of that car, like, Who's Who? And how do you figure that out? And you know, and how do you stop yourself from being suspicious of everybody? Do you find that yet? Are you have you not been in it long enough to have that like, feeling?

Sean Hunter 25:51
No. So I definitely, I definitely know where we're coming from its I definitely, you know, see people different, even when I'm not at work, we're just going out with a family stuff like that, you know, you definitely kind of look at people differently. And you kind of, because you have to, you know, especially if you're living in that, that yellow area, where you're trying to react to things, you definitely see people differently. But if you're going to a situation, and you have to find out what's going on that just takes good investigative skills, and, you know, that's all built over time. I would say that I'm definitely you know, getting better at when Sam great, you know, only having five years on the job. But you know, you gain those skills over time. And you get better at finding out who's the good person who's the bad person, just based off of their reactions and their demeanor,

Unknown Speaker 26:47
learn to read people?

Unknown Speaker 26:48
Right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 26:49
So we're gonna get into how this all affects your diabetes or doesn't or how you deal with it in a second. But have you had a moment yet where you thought, No, I don't need to be a cop anymore. Like has anything really frightening happened that makes you rethink it. I mean, one of my close friends always tells me about the first home intrusion he went into that was happening. And he got in the house and the intruder went into the basement. And you know, the homeowners like he went downstairs and my friend standing at the top of the staircase, and he pulls his gun out and starts going downstairs and realizes as he's going down that because of the makeup of the house, that his legs and his entire lower half of his body are going to be visible long before he can get his eyes into the space. And he said there was a split second there where he thought, why don't I just leave? And but he did. He went down and did what he was supposed to do. But he's like, there was that moment where he's like, do I really want to be a police officer? And now's the time? No, you know, have you had one of those yet? Or how's it gone for the first five years,

Sean Hunter 27:49
um, there's definitely been a lot of those, you know, those pucker moments, if you want to call them that, um, I just recently think within the last eight months or so, I was put on our regional county SWAT team. So there's definitely been a lot of those moments where if we are clear, and a house, or we're going into a situation where we're possibly going to go in and find someone you know, you, you kind of think about it like, and this is kind of crazy, like we're the guys that are going in. We're the first people who are going to get hurt if something happens. But I think we kind of wear that as a badge of pride, like, Hey, we're the guys that went in and found this person that were the first were the people that went in and got the job done. And I think it's, it's a little bit crazy sometimes, but I think that's something that you have to have as a police officer to kind of have that, that pride of saying, Hey, I'm, I'm the guy that got that job done. I'm the guy that went out and did that thing, you know?

Scott Benner 28:47
Yeah, no, I hear you. Um, so I have to tell you my funny story, and then I'm gonna get into how diabetes is this? So I grew up in this in a pretty small town. And I'm going to give not enough details especially because the internet back then, you know, you could find it if you tried hard enough, but we I grew up in this small town, you know, the police department have probably 10 or 15 guys, it's grown over the years. And there was this one officer who was just quiet. He went about his business. He wrote his tickets. He didn't really do much else. That was kind of the vibe about him like you don't I mean, like he wasn't gonna wasn't gonna do much and he was just gonna do what he was supposed to do. And, and he just was he was wallpaper he just there he was, and you saw him you never thought twice about him. He's a decent enough guy wasn't a bad guy. Nothing like that. And then one day, he gets arrested. Because, wait, hold on, I swear to you, you're gonna love this. He found out about sunken treasure in the ocean and decided that he was going to die for it. And this was going to be how he's going to live the rest of his life off of these The blooms, okay, but how is he going to get enough money for the dive? Obviously, he's going to start robbing drug houses in the area. So he did, and was fairly successful at it for a while. if my memory serves, until one day, he went into a place, you know, a place where a lot of people were doing drugs, and they were selling drugs out of the place that he knew about. He went in there as a police officer to rob the place, but she had been doing and someone using drugs in the place if I my memory serves the son of a local politician, recognize them. Wow. And that's how he got caught. No lie. This story goes that he went to prison did his time and then got out and disappeared. And people think he went and found that treasure and left because they never got the money back from the robberies. He just he shut up. He did his time he held on to his money. He got out and he and they think he went and got that money somehow off the ocean floor. So I always imagine this man somewhere on an island, just with a big smile on his face with that same sort of like lackadaisical, like, I'm just here. Like, I just think of him as just existing. I don't know if that's actually what happened to him. But in my mind, that's, that's how I like to think of him. But that's not right.

Sean Hunter 31:20
Yeah, I can't even I can't even wrap my head around that. doing that, that's crazy.

Scott Benner 31:26
It was as much about the fact that he was just the quietest guy who was probably at the time, near 50 years old, he probably been a cop 15 or 20 years. Like he just really, it was insane. And it's 100% true. And I know it's true, because I know enough of the details to Google it and I just found two news stories on it while I was talking to you. So I know. It's not just stories that people told. But that was that like, you know, you woke up one day and you're like, Hey, remember, Officer blah, blah? Yeah, you got arrested? How come? He was robbing drug houses to make money to go look for Spanish to blooms on the bottom of the ocean floor? And you're like, Get the hell out of here. Anyway, I hope you don't go that way, Sean.

Sean Hunter 32:06
No, I don't I don't plan on it.

Scott Benner 32:09
What's that I don't think he had planned on it his whole life. And one day he snapped, like, I guess it was just one too many free medium coffees from 711. He was like, I'm done with this. Anyway, what I really want to know about is, you know, we just described a job that is can be, you know, fulfilling, you're off helping citizens. It can go from that fulfillment to anxiety and adrenaline very quickly. You have to be ready at a moment's notice. How do you manage your type one diabetes through that, that's why you're here. I really want to hear how you do that.

Sean Hunter 32:44
Um, so I, I was actually using a Medtronic pump, but I just switched to an omni pod. Okay. And I use the.com g six. Um, so you actually pushed me towards the Omni pod with your ads. Oh, on yours worker show.

Scott Benner 33:03
Excellent. Hey, dex coming on the pod the ads work, keep buying them.

Sean Hunter 33:09
But yeah, so I use Omni pod in the Dexcom. And I kind of just use the principles that you talked about, while I'm at work, you know, pretty bolusing and bumping and nudging are the two big things that I try to use. You know, not trying to, you know, use or have mountains in my, my numbers, you know, what I mean? Just have them be small rolling hills, if I, if they end up getting too high or too low,

Scott Benner 33:41
you know, so is creating that stability, helping you when out of nowhere, you do a car stop, and something looks weird, and you feel that adrenaline kick in does your blood sugar jump up at that time does it try

Sean Hunter 33:54
who I haven't really ever had too much of an effect from adrenaline, just my, my sugar going too high. But it definitely having a more stable blood sugar and more stable numbers throughout the day definitely helps. If something does, you know, go bed and say I'm away from my my snacks or something like that. It definitely helps to have a more stable number. If I, if I'm away from things for a while, you know, see, I

Scott Benner 34:22
think that's interesting what you just said, so that when you and I believe this as well, when you create stability that runs over hours and days, then when something happens that some people see is like, Oh, this thing threw me way off. I think they don't realize the whole picture. Sometimes if their bezels too high or too low, if they're bolusing too much at meals because their bezels too low or whatever the things are. They have this imbalance of insulin running through their life. And then when something happens, it's easier for things to get upside down because so many other things are wrong. So now that you've created the stability when things come up, you're okay, what about? Excuse me? What about you ever have to, like suddenly jump on foot and take off? Do these it in your head? Like, like, I give it to me? Like, are you ever gonna go pull your gun and pull out a candy bar instead? Because you've got stuff on you like, how do you handle like, like, when you're away from the car, I guess? Are you out of that?

Sean Hunter 35:23
Yeah, so I actually always have something with me, I always have like a glucose jellen, I have like two or three in my pocket at work. But like I said, I always try to keep my blood sugar pretty stable. If I feel like I'm going low, I will correct it before it gets, you know, too low. Just in case something like that does happen. And being on, you know, different scenes in different situations. You know, I like I said, I always try and keep stuff on me. There have been situations where if I'm standing outside of the house on the perimeter, and I'm going loads, like, hey, let me you know, I put call the guy up to me and say, Hey, you know, watch this side, I'm gonna just, you know, shoot some glucose real quick. And then I'll, you know, right back in the flight, but like I said, I try to keep everything pretty stable. So I don't have to get into that situation. So I can go an hour or two inside of the house, or on a job and not have to worry about my sugar crashing or spiking.

Scott Benner 36:25
Yeah. So because that's sort of your reality. While you're at work, do you find that your management? I'm gonna say control, although I know some people don't like that idea. But do you find that your control is better while you're working? Because you're more present about it? Or do you carry that into your regular life? Because you do work shift work as well?

Sean Hunter 36:43
Yeah, so we switch each month. So I'm actually working on days, this month, and then next month, we'll switch to tonight work where we work a 12 hour shift. So we work 630 to 630. And, but I actually, like you said, I actually think I have better control while I'm at work. Because, like you said that, that awareness that things could go bad really quick, you know?

Scott Benner 37:12
Yeah. And so the reason I bring it up is because it's a, it's a simple idea that translates to everybody's life. And, you know, you can say it anyway, you know, I've said it a bunch of different ways over the years. But if you pay attention for small moments, you don't get into big problems. It's when you try to ignore diabetes for 346 hours at a time and just hope that it's going to be okay, that you wake up to find, oh, my blood sugar's 200 points higher than I thought, or I've been 50 all night long, or something like that. But when you just look once in a while, it takes a brief couple of moments to say, Oh, I'm good, or I need a little bump here or something and get right back in the game. I'd much rather spend 30 seconds, never getting way out of bounds then pretending for three or four hours that everything's okay. And so I when you're describing how you handle work, I thought I bet you He's, like, really within tolerances. At that time. Where do you set your, your goals that high and low on your CGM.

Sean Hunter 38:15
So before listening to you, I had them wherever Dexcom has been preset, I think it's 70 to like 220 or something like that. Okay. But since listening to you, I bumped it down to originally 70 to 140. And now on 70 to 130. Good for you.

Scott Benner 38:31
You're a one sees probably sub six. We like 5758

Sean Hunter 38:36
as one so I, I just started listening to your podcast in January, I think. And then my next appointment after that, I think was in March. And I was at like 6.1. And I'm excited to go and get my bloodwork done for my next appointment because I'm fairly certain I'm going to be under six.

Scott Benner 38:57
Congratulations. That's very, very well done. But were you prior to finding the show? Do you mind saying

Sean Hunter 39:05
I think I was low low sevens or high sixes I could probably pull it up. I probably like a six, seven to seven. You know,

Scott Benner 39:14
that's a that's a really great adjustment. Do you feel differently by any chance?

Sean Hunter 39:20
I definitely feel better. I'm especially so before even when I would go work out you know, go to the gym, do stuff like that. It was tough trying to keep my sugar in rain. Okay, but then being able to find a good basal rate. I can go out into the gym and work out for an hour and not have my sugar go out of range for that hour, hour and a half. You know, and that's that's something that is, is pretty freeing for me because I work out a lot and that's one of the things I enjoy doing.

Scott Benner 39:52
How did you handle it in college because I know at every level of baseball, it doesn't matter what division you're in the guys They lift a lot they do a lot of hard workouts practices are long. Were you constantly feeding your insulin when you were in college?

Sean Hunter 40:08
Yeah, so I can tell you that I was a terrible diabetic in college. It's one of the things I regret a lot about my life as a diabetic. Probably the last three years, or, you know, the first three years, my senior year, I was definitely more focused on it. But I wouldn't check a lot. I wasn't using a CGM throughout college. So, you know, I was checking my sugar, but I was using the Medtronic pump. But I wouldn't check my blood sugar a lot. I wouldn't really only do it, you know, before bed. And then after I woke up in the morning, you know, and then kind of just ride the feeling I had throughout the day, if I felt low, I would eat if I felt like I was too high, give myself insulin. And, again, like I said, that's that's one of the things I kind of regret about my life as a diabetic is kind of just living that. uncontrolled life for for a few years in my college years.

Scott Benner 41:07
How was it before college when your parents were more involved? Do you remember being similar?

Sean Hunter 41:14
Yeah, I mean, I was, I was pretty good. I wasn't, you know, anything crazy, like I am now you know, where I'm in pretty tight control. But I was more controlled, because obviously, they're looking over my shoulder. And they're making sure that I'm doing things correctly and making sure I'm testing for from meals and giving myself insulin prior to eating rather than after eating and you know, stuff like that.

Scott Benner 41:36
Yeah. Well, I have to say that it's impressive what you've done end on a personal level, I feel like, in an indirect way, I'm protecting South Jersey now. So I feel like I feel like I'm making it easier for you to protect them. And so I'm gonna take credit my own mind, I won't say it. Anybody else except for the 10s of thousands of people that are hearing me say it right now. But that's not the point. Really. I'm joking, mostly. But I'm happy that you're able to do your job better and live a better life just off of a couple of small ideas. Really? You know, right tools. Right job. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to oversimplify it. But it sort of is what it is.

Sean Hunter 42:17
Yeah, that's all it is, man. It's all it is, is just having the right tools and the right mindset to go out and make things work happy.

Scott Benner 42:24
How long have you been married? You said you're a married you seem as although I was married when I was 26? When you said I was too young, but go ahead.

Sean Hunter 42:34
So I've been married for going on three years or four years now. Yeah, four years. We got married in 2016. October 2016. So what's that? What's that? Make me 22? I'm about as good as you at now.

Scott Benner 42:50
Yeah, I don't know if you asked me how old I was. When I got married. Or when I had my children. I have no idea even though the years. I know, like I know when my son's born. But if you ask me how old I was, when he was born, I don't know. And that's even more ridiculous because he was born in 2000. So the math is really simple. And I can't come up with it off the top of my head. But that's neither here nor there. So did you guys know each other a long time?

Sean Hunter 43:16
Yeah, we actually met in college. She's from North North Jersey in Warren County. But we met in college. She was actually my ra my sophomore year of college.

Scott Benner 43:26
I see Sean, he started out trying to get a decent room and then went better. I say I love listen. Interesting. She was from North Jersey when she got to South Jersey. She probably thought she was in Pennsylvania right because people from North Jersey think that think that like Princeton is South Jersey?

Sean Hunter 43:44
Yes Yeah, she's definitely It was definitely a culture shock at first when she moved down here with me

Scott Benner 43:48
it's a very interesting thing so New Jersey sort of split into these three knits North Central and South people in South Jersey think the Trenton area where the capitalist for example they think of that is north but that central the people and the only the people around Trenton understand that there's a north in the south because the people up north by the city just think that by the time you get to Trenton that's the bottom of New Jersey. Right. It's It's interesting how we don't understand the state of

Sean Hunter 44:16
weird though, and there's a lot of different things going on around here.

Scott Benner 44:19
Yeah, well, once you get far enough south, it feels like you're in Philly. Honestly, it feels like you're in a suburb of Philadelphia. Like do you feel like you live in Philadelphia Moreover, or is that taboo to say down there?

Sean Hunter 44:32
Now we're more suburban like you said we're you know, little neighborhood nice little house so it's not really that really city like but we definitely I mean, we're like 20 minutes from Philly so

Scott Benner 44:45
right. Just Just tell everybody for a second not to get off track too far. But explain the joy when the Eagles won the Super Bowl. Wasn't that was great. It's just amazing.

Sean Hunter 44:54
Yeah, it was awesome.

Scott Benner 44:55
I never thought I was gonna say it. I thought for sure I would die before it happened. And and It was I just remember sitting in my house for the last 20 minutes of the game thinking like, I think they could win. It's such a strange thing to have no hope ever to grow up with no hope around sports

Sean Hunter 45:14
that in the Phillies in a way, I was more excited about that.

Scott Benner 45:18
I was so thrilled I my son was still kind of young. And if I remember correctly, there was some weather that pushed the game, the last World Series game a day or two. And we were down to like carving pumpkins for Halloween while the game was being played. And I remember Cole being in the kitchen, a little kid carving it, excuse me. A little kid carbon is pumpkin. And I just was like, come out here like you have to watch this. And and he's like, what? Like, it's baseball. I'm like, no, no. And I even remember even though he was that young, he was eight years old. I said the last time the Phillies won the World Series. A, my dad was alive and he's dead now. So I'm going to be dead the next time this happens to stand here. And then of course, the next year, they're back in the World Series. And he's like, I thought you told me this was never gonna happen again, you idiot. But, uh, that was a great baseball team there for for a number of years. So have you heard Sam on the show? Sam's a coach. Oh, yeah.

Sean Hunter 46:20
Yeah, I actually listened to both of his episodes. Okay, cool.

Scott Benner 46:23
Yeah, he's a, he's terrific. And I love that he's in Philadelphia. I was so happy when that felt so random to me when he left the A's and then suddenly was coaching. in Philly. I thought, Oh, this is terrific. You know? It's cool. Yeah. So okay, so you've got this job. The shift work I want to get into for a second, but I have to clear my throat. I apologize. I think it's just like a little Corona back there or something. I'm not sure exactly. But you shouldn't joke about that. shift work. Now, when my buddy was young, they had shifts that you would probably think was crazy. He'd work 5772 threes. The early cut, the early guy was six to two. And then there were three, two elevens, the early guy was two to 10 and then 11 to seven and then there was always an early guy so there was always this one guy that came in an hour before the shift started left an hour before the keep this overlap going. So there's always a car on the street while people are switching over that kind of feeling. But they would work them five on three off five on three off and they would they would I don't know how he did it. Like I there were times I thought it was gonna kill him. He said he'd come out of a midnight into a 303 211. And fella he lost two weeks of his life. And it but you're but you're doing. You're doing 12 hours for how many days in a row.

Sean Hunter 47:53
So we work a Pitman schedule. So I work Monday and Tuesday, and then I'll work all weekend. So I'll work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then it just flips that next week. So after I work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'll be off Monday, Tuesday, work Wednesday and Thursday and then all Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Scott Benner 48:14
Okay, so there's these two days, the keep moving forward on the counter you have off Monday. You'll have off like Wednesday, Thursday, then Monday, Tuesday, Friday, sad like that kind of a thing. But you're always working live.

Sean Hunter 48:26
Yep. So it's easier to think about it. We just we basically we have every other Friday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off every other good schedule. I like it,

Scott Benner 48:36
it is but now how does your management change? Or does it daytime to nighttime days off? How do you do it? Do you find yourself changing basal rates or anything like that.

Sean Hunter 48:47
The only thing that I find is I may have to back my bazel down on a network because I kind of jacked my bazel up I have my babies will setting kind of jacked up at night when I sleep because I tend to rise when I sleep. Um so I kind of use the technique that you've talked about is like the to two hours before I see the rise I've kind of jacked my bazel up and it's helped level out my sugar overnight while I'm sleeping. But But with that jacked up basal rate I kind of just kind of Temp Basal while I'm at work at night. I know I can set up different bazel patterns on the pod, but I think that's more complicated than my brain can handle. You know what I mean? Trying to switch Sorry, guys,

Scott Benner 49:38
no, no, I feel like you could do it but but I think you would need three different three different programs you would need. You'd need a day off, you need your day off program. You'd need a night night work program in a day work program. I would think I would think there's a way to do that. And then you have to just go go into your settings and change from days to nights. But anyway, you're doing great. It's not like you need it. But if it makes it easier for you on day,

Sean Hunter 50:08
yeah, it's definitely just been easier to kind of Temp Basal as I need it, you know, or if I see, if I see a change, you know, looking at my graph, I can just kind of temp it and then deal with it.

Scott Benner 50:19
So now do you ride with someone? Or are you in a single

Sean Hunter 50:23
now, so where we ride solo? Our Town is kind of small enough, where we have a two guy minimum for the street. We work squads of three guys. So a supervisor in two patrolmen. We, like I said, we ride solo, it's easier to cover more area, we have a four square mile town, which is small, but we are still pretty busy with calls for service. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:51
I was wondering about the guys that you work with? Do you? Have you told each and every one of them? Do you tell each one of them? Or do they just know on their own? Or is it private? Like, how do you handle being diabetic in a setting like that?

Sean Hunter 51:06
So everyone knows. I don't if I'm not mistaken, I don't think it has has to come up really on like a hiring process. I think it I think it's a something that should come up in a job like, like a police officer, you know, it's more demanding than like a desk job, you know, something like that. But like I said, everyone knows, the gods that I work with, know, they're not super knowledgeable on like, what to do in different situations. They kind of know. I'm like, they know what my alarms go off. They look at me like you are, right.

Scott Benner 51:45
Guys are great, aren't they? Just guys, I don't know. Women will never really be able to appreciate this. But when you just get a bunch of guys together. I'm sure you work with females too. But guys are just like, y'all right now. Yeah. All right, good. And then it's sort of like, I wish you knew how little we thought about things. Generally speaking. I get the vibe, but you're saying they check on you a little bit. And that doesn't get old for you like it feels brotherly, I guess?

Sean Hunter 52:12
Yeah, I don't, I don't mind it. I've always been really open about my diabetes. And I really don't care that I have it. It's up sometimes. But, um, it's a part of me. So I think that, you know, people should know that I have it and how to deal with it. You know, especially with being on the SWAT team. I talk to those guys about it. We have a medic on the team who's just specifically assigned to have medical interventions and we need it and I you know, I gave him some glucose Joe and told him like, Hey, listen, if I go down you know, if I pass out or something look at my look at my phone if my numbers right, give me some some glucose, you know, but that's really the

Scott Benner 52:54
extent of it.

Sean Hunter 52:55
Yeah, the extent of knowledge that they really need to know about it.

Scott Benner 52:59
Your is your SWAT team, like my buddies is it made up of guys from a lot of neighboring towns, and when something happens, you all come together?

Sean Hunter 53:07
Yeah, we have about five or six different towns that are on the team. We're like 20 to 22 guys.

Scott Benner 53:15
And then you support all the team supports all those towns in the the the situation where it's needed, how often do you get called for that,

Sean Hunter 53:24
um, kind of few and far between for call outs, especially now, you know, the, the virus and everything that's going around. So we'll get called out every once in a while for like a barricaded subject or, you know, emotionally disturbed person, something like that, where people are barricaded in a house, and we're, you know, obviously the people who are more well trained for those situations. But we also do search warrants, like narcotic search warrants, and high tech crime search warrants, like different stuff like that we do those more, more than we get called out for situations.

Scott Benner 54:04
How has COVID-19 changed how you do your job?

Sean Hunter 54:10
Yes, so we've, I don't know if it's for the better or not, but we've definitely changed the way that we do things. We're handling a lot more calls over the phone. So like, whereas before somebody would call calling like a theft complaint or something like that they're reporting something stolen, we would go out to their house and talk to them and you know, get all their information meishan then do the report. Whereas now we're, you know, handling that call over the phone. So we don't have contact with people.

Scott Benner 54:42
It's gonna be an app one day.

Sean Hunter 54:44
Yeah, I mean, there's there's actually a lot of police departments that are doing it now where you can report like non violent crimes or you know, property crimes on their, their website, you can just go on, put in the information for your report, and then it'll be investigated. The police departments, they're probably really

Scott Benner 55:03
work on the street, they'll just do. Like they'll do crime. digitally. That's really that makes sense, though. I mean, honestly, it's the population explodes. You can't be everywhere constantly, right? I mean, it's just, it just makes sense. And the limiting contact is limiting contact, but but in a, in a real situation. Okay, listen, I know, there's they've probably given you, I don't want to get you in trouble, they've probably given you rules about how to handle yourself. But the fact of the matter is that if something goes down, out of nowhere quick, you're not going to stop to cover your face before you go do your job, right? Like, you're gonna end up doing what you're going to do. I don't see how in some lines of work, that's, you don't mean like, hold on a second, I'm sorry, that guy's hitting you. Let me just get my face mask on before I come over there and help. Like, that's not going to be the case? Do you find yourself somewhere between reality and what a perfect situation would call for?

Sean Hunter 56:06
Yeah, so we actually have a response protocol or continuum that we have, that our command staff put on to us. And that, you know, there's always that, that section that says, If you know, everything in this, you know, policy or whatever is subject to, you know, situations. So if there is a situation like you're explaining where it is, or emergent, like we're pulling up in, someone's getting beat up or something like that, we're not going to take into account the time to put a face mask on or put our personal protective equipment on, you know, we have to go address the situation. And then once everything is calmed down, then we'll go back and we'll put our mask on, and we'll deal with that, you know, but we have a, we have a job to do we have a duty to protect people. And that's what I'm going to do, I'm not going to worry about, you know, there's no time it takes to put that mask on.

Scott Benner 57:01
How do you personally think of COVID-19 in relationship to you having type one are you going with? I mean, I'm sure you're you're being careful as you can, but are you going with I'm healthy, my blood sugar's are stable, they're in a good range, I'm probably no more risk than someone else, or do you have concerns?

Sean Hunter 57:23
I wouldn't say I have a lot of concerns I, I kind of and like you said, I'm, I'm pretty healthy. I think my immune system is pretty good, you know, minus the fact that I have diabetes, but I wouldn't say I'm too concerned about contracting it. And I think if I did contract it, I think I would, you know, I would be okay, fighting it off, you know, or having my body deal with it?

Scott Benner 57:49
Well, as my friend Vicki said, to me, your immune system is pretty toxic, kick the shit out of your pancreas. So it's, it's a very strange situation to be in, though, honestly, you know, you're you're looking and it makes sense, what I'm hearing, I don't disagree with like, I cover my face, when I go out, I don't think I'm sick. But if I am, I don't want to make someone else sick during this time, you know, or wherever, if I can help it. And at the same point, you know, we have to be a little realistic, that you know, moving forward, we're not all going to live inside of our homes for the rest of our lives. It's just not what's going to be, I really hope we get to a point where we protect people who are at risk. And you know, and everyone else sort of gets to go back and do what they're going to do. But yeah, I mean, you're just in a unique situation. You really are. Yeah, I've seen I've seen it happen. Fire calls and rescue calls. I've seen it happen with police officers, there's a moment where you have to make a decision and you can't always do everything, you can always open up the book and follow the steps. Sometimes it has to be, you know, like you said, this is emergent, we needed to act right now. There's a story the other day about a a very, um, you know, dedicated nurse who had a, I forget where it happened, but she had a patient who was in trouble and she ran into the room and it ended up killing the nurse. Like she died a couple of weeks later from Corona. And but she didn't they say she didn't stop. She knew she wasn't unaware of what she was doing. But she felt a calling to help these people. It's what her job was, and she did it. And that's what it called for in the moment. I'm assuming that's how police officers feel as well.

Sean Hunter 59:26
Yeah, there's a like I said, there's a there's a calling like you said, No, we have a purpose. World everyone has a purpose. And you know, my purpose is to go out and help people and make a difference, or at least try and make a difference. And that's what I that's what I do every day I strap on the uniform and strap the vest on I go out and try to fulfill that purpose and make a difference in someone's world.

Scott Benner 59:47
Good dude, man. Like it's a special person who's willing to to take a job like that I think of you know, it's it's really strange because, you know, over the last number of years, you'll hear stories worries about, you know, cops who aren't doing things the right way or, you know, violating people's civil liberties in a way that I think everyone can look at and think that's not okay. I don't want that to be happening. But I always get afraid of just like with everything else, you don't hear enough stories about all the people are just out there doing it, you know, and doing a good job and doing it for the right reason. It's the internet or the news, you know, you hear about the bad stuff, not the good. It's nobody, nobody takes five minutes to click through a picture to find out about, you know, a police officer who stopped in, you know, got a cat out of a tree or helped a woman across the street, not to use a bunch of old, you know, tired ideas, but you don't mean like, just to do the regular everyday things that people need. It's a kindness, and it's their job. And we never hear about that, you know, right. It's, it sucks. It really is. It's terrible, to have bad apples be able to ruin the whole barrel. But, you know, especially when you're out there working so hard and doing such a good job. So I really appreciate what you're doing. And I'm sure everyone else does as well, especially with your circumstances. But moreover, Shawn, I'm really thrilled with how far you've come with your type one and what is basically like six or seven months. That's it? Yeah,

Sean Hunter 1:01:11
I definitely feel better. And I appreciate, you know, you put in the info out there, you've definitely helped me because I, I've known a lot of these things, you know, whether it's Pre-Bolus saying or, you know, using a little bit less insulin if my sugars high and trying to make it come down a little bit more gradually than, you know, then plummeting, you know, I'm getting my basal rates, right. I've known all these things, but kind of hearing it from somebody else and hearing from a podcast, you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts is you know, it's definitely helped. And it's definitely pushed me to to make a change.

Scott Benner 1:01:45
I'm thrilled for you. I really wish I understood, I think I you know, in a broad way, have the idea of what it's like, but I still don't like when people like you say what you just said like I knew a lot of this I just didn't do it. Do you have a feeling for what it was about hearing it through a podcast that made you go I'm gonna try this do you think you were just ready? Or did it flip a switch? Do you have any idea even you might not even know,

Sean Hunter 1:02:12
man, I don't really know what like you said I could just be I was ready to do it, you know, kind of just ready to take take them not the risk, but you know, take the risk and just say Screw it, I'm gonna I'm gonna mess with my basal rates. Now I'm gonna do the stuff and see if it works. And you know, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, then I'll just change it. I don't know if you've ever heard of Jocko Willink in his podcast, but he talks about having, you know, being disciplined in your life. And this is how discipline equals freedom and I try to live that way in my personal life and my work life and be disciplined in the things I do. But I wasn't really being too disciplined with my diabetes, I was kind of letting that go to the wayside. So I think it was just me realizing it was time to take control of the diabetes and you know, be in control of everything in my life rather than just letting one thing go

Scott Benner 1:03:07
on. Like, I've got all these other things in line, why am I Why the hell am I ignoring this one thing that's got such impact over you know, everything about me really, like you could be as good at your job or as good at being married or you know, whatever else you're going to be at, but your blood sugar's are bouncing all over the place and you feel like hell and you're hurting your long term health, like what's the point of the rest of it? Like that's got to be first. Right? So and Jacko tacos the the military guy, right? Was he a seal?

Sean Hunter 1:03:34
is a retired Navy SEAL? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:03:35
is he the guy that puts like the time he gets up in the morning on his Instagram every day. It's like someone godly early time is that the person

Sean Hunter 1:03:43
he takes a picture of his watch, everyone gets up at 430 and works out.

Scott Benner 1:03:46
God bless him, he deserves to be in good shape. If he's up at 430. I try to wake up at 430 and there's gonna be a noise from my knee and my ankle in my lower back. That's like, Brother, you better lay back down. But, but I guess I'd be better off if I was up working out. But let's not. Let's not do too much. So I think what I've learned here is that it's just like when I'm talking to people privately, and you'll talk for like 45 minutes, and sometimes you end up laying, I'll end up laying things out. And I can tell it's the first time they've ever heard them. But in the end, whether it's the first time they've ever heard them, or it's the 50th time and they're finally going to listen, a lot of the times I feel like my role in that moment is just, it's a pat on the bud. It's like you could do this, move your bazel and see what happens. Try this and see what happens. You know, I mean, like I think sometimes people just need a voice to say to them, what's the worst that can happen? Like you're only moving at point one like I said to someone we were doing a zoom the other day and I the lady's like can I move my kids bazel from you know where it is to this? And I was like, Look, I don't know like for certain I can't tell you I'm like but what I can tell you is the kid weighs 40 pounds and you're asking me about moving is bazel point oh five. I'm not a doctor, but always that's gonna kill anybody. Like give it a shot and see what happens. You know, and I said it if it's blood sugar starts going down, put it back. But you don't you know, you're not you don't have to stand there and watch it. It's it's, there's no rules like, Oh, you move it, you got to leave it there. So that's, that's really excellent. And I good for you. I think that's wonderful. I'm gonna, I'm going to say thank you and let you go. And then I just I want to tell you one more thing privately. So if you don't mind, can you hold on one second? Yeah, absolutely. So I appreciate you doing this. Thank you so much. Hey, huge thanks to Sean for wanting to be on the show, share his story, and give encouragement to younger people who'd like to be of service to others. And thanks to Dexcom, makers of the G six continuous glucose monitor You can learn more about it@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box and of course the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump and it's free. No Obligation demo offer can be found at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Don't forget to head over to touch by type one.org on Saturday 7pm. Eastern Time, check out that dancing for diabetes program. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.

#405 How We Eat: Plant Based

Type 1 Diabetes and Plant Based Eating

Matt is a type 1 who eats a plant based diet for strictly health reasons.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public or your favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:11
Hello, friends, and welcome to Episode 405 of the Juicebox Podcast today, another in the how we eat series, this time with Matt, a type one who eats a plant based diet. This is the third in the series. It's a new series, we're just getting it off the ground. So far on episode 373 we had a vegan Episode 400 Dr. Paul Saladino came on and talked about carnivore eating, even though he doesn't have type one, he was a good source of information about that style of eating. Today, Matt, who's plant based, but not for any moral reasons. And there are many more coming but I'd like to add your story to the show. If you have a specific particular or interesting way that you eat, and you have type one diabetes, I'd love for you to come on the show and tell people about it. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or trying a garbanzo bean.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g Vogue hypo pen, Find out more at G Volk glucagon.com Ford slash juice box. And to learn more about the blood glucose meter that Arden uses, all you have to do is go to Contour Next one.com Ford slash juice box there you're going to learn all about the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, the apps that are paired with it for Android and iPhone, if you wish to have those apps, you don't have to have them to use this great meter, and so much more Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. And don't forget to add your name to the T one D registry T one d exchange.org Ford slash juicebox. There are links right there in the show notes of your podcast player. And at Juicebox podcast.com. If you can't remember what I just said,

Matt Fouse 2:21
my name is Matthew Fouse. I have been diabetic since age five, which is 31 years. Well,

Unknown Speaker 2:32
a lot of time.

Matt Fouse 2:35
Absolutely. And I'm still continued to be amazed at the advancements. When I was five, I was on humulin n and she Mulan are right. Which when I look back now I'm just like, how am I still alive?

Scott Benner 2:58
Well, it was it was processed. Right? It was you put that in and eat at certain times? And is that how it went?

Matt Fouse 3:04
Absolutely. I remember when I started school because when I was diagnosed, it was a little before kindergarten and snack time and lunchtime had to be perfect. Otherwise, you would run low. And it just continued. I'm, I'm amazed like at the advancements now with like, I'm on fee offs. And Heck, I can forget the Bolus sometimes and I'm still okay. You know,

Scott Benner 3:35
you know what, I'm interested in that because this might be where I end up saying this is we tried fiasco, however, they said, For Arden and she's in the middle of it now meaning she's maybe a violin a quarter into it. And she as soon as we put it on her, she's like, hey, this thing's when your ball is saying. And I was like, Alright, and then she started using the word burns. And I was like, oh, now here's the problem. I'm actually better their blood sugar than I was before, which without being immodest. Not saying something. And and so, so I got better at it. But we're, you know, I gotta say, five or six pods into it. And she says that the sites are sore, they feel bruised. It always things when it goes in. I don't I think we're gonna have to bail on it if it doesn't abate but did you have any of that in the beginning?

Matt Fouse 4:26
The four fiaz I was on novolog. And my endocrinologist was like, why don't you give us a chance. And I did. And I actually did notice little slight stings. And recently, I'm on Omni pod. And I'm looping with Dexcom.

Scott Benner 4:47
I noticed my sights for the pods. were reacting and I'm wondering, I've tried every type of adhesive barrier. Yeah, and I'm wondering if it is a reaction with The I'm not ready to bail yet because of how amazing it is with my sugars. So it's like, Do I want my skin to break out and itch my skin off? Or do I want good sugars and that's something I am glad Arden's not having a, like a dermatology reaction I really am. But at the same time like she was laying on the floor last night, she likes to have her back cracked. And so she's like, Don't touch my thigh, my thigh is sore. And the pods only been on for like a day. And that is not something that happened at all with a pager. And it's not like we were bad at a pager. But your point about the fiasco is, is correct in that there's been twice now since we've been using it. Where one time it was just like a pod change at a really awkward time. So there was a new pod on going into a restaurant, handmade potato chips, and a Belgian waffle with real syrup. And like blood sugar only went to like 165 and it was you know, I think that was the the insulin now could I have done the same thing by just using more a pager? I think I could have and I'm not going to torture her. Like you know, some people have said the stinging comes in about a month that goes away. If she doesn't see it dwindling, we're gonna have to go back and it's not like a head down thing, I think Peters really great. But yeah, it was worth a try. And we weren't trying, by the way, I guess I should say here before we get into why you're here. We didn't switch from a Piedra and try fi s because of a pager being a problem. We were just trying to see, like, we're like, finally picking through Arden's health, like, Is there a filler in a pager that doesn't exist in fiasco? And would a muscle pain or an ache change or something like that? So it's just a lot of, you know,

Matt Fouse 6:46
yeah, you're you always want to advance and even fine tune things, you know, find the you, you want to live your best life, human human nature so you can fill in and you know, better your diabetes management. Well, number one, you'd

Scott Benner 7:02
like me to supplement, right? And he's like, I need to take a sorbic acid, right? And you buy one brand, try a different brand to like maybe this brands not as good as that one or vice versa. But you know, it's you just can't do one thing and stop. So anyway, I don't think it's gonna last much longer. But I'm glad it works for you. And I do agree with you. For the people that I hear it works for they all say what you say, which is it just it seems to act more quickly. And she definitely has not had as many. And again, it's not to say she had a ton of them. But you know, tail and lows like hours after a meal. They don't seem to exist, even at all, which I guess what's leading to more stability through the, through the 24 hours.

Matt Fouse 7:42
Yeah, the the like, if I forget the Pre-Bolus, which, you know, I'm human, and I don't eat on a perfect schedule because it's life. I have a kindergartener right now upstairs doing virtual learning. Yeah, wife is 39 Weeks Pregnant doing online doctor's visit, like I cannot eat exactly on time. So sometimes you forget and with the fee off, it's bam, it's it's right there on for me.

Scott Benner 8:12
I'm sorry. This is gonna be our first detour. You're missing your wife's ob appointment to be on this podcast. That's my first one. Secondly, and I don't mean to be indelicate, but what if she like hopped up on a desk and open her legs in front of the laptop? Or how does that work? Exactly.

Matt Fouse 8:29
So So that part happens last week, the in person visits. With the pandemic going on. That was the first appointment I was allowed to go to. So I got to see the baby for the first time on the sonogram. God, this is actually an appointment for the unborn baby with the pediatrician of like, hey, it's in here. It's coming out you're gonna see it sometimes.

Scott Benner 9:00
Has that been? Well, first of all, I'm glad to hear your wife is not an unwitting partner in a webcam scam. And imagine the baby comes you get the hospital the guy's not there. And they're like, Where's Dr. Philips now? Like, there's no Dr. Philips. But But uh, but so when did she get pregnant? 39 weeks.

Matt Fouse 9:22
So it is not a coronial as I like to call them it is not a coronavirus, baby. It was two weeks previous to when the world shut down. She knew she was pregnant. Okay. So everybody, you know, plays a joke. Well, I know what you guys were doing during the pandemic? No, it was before the pandemic.

Scott Benner 9:43
I hope you're still doing that. But at the same point, I understand. You don't want your child wandering around their whole life going. I only exist because my parents were bored and locked in the same house. Absolutely. I hate to break it to those kids. But that's pretty much why we're all here but nevertheless, nevertheless, yes.

Unknown Speaker 9:58
100% Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:00
well, that's good. And it hasn't been a problem for to do. Like virtually often than in person. It's all worked out. Obviously, she's healthy. And she's doing well, right.

Matt Fouse 10:09
She is amazing. Yeah. Both my daughter and my wife are taking this, like, absolutely the best possible case they could. My daughter is in kindergarten, and she loves it. She is attentive on the virtual learning. And my wife is a nurse and still working. She's, she's a trooper. And she's going to continue. I mean, she might flop it out, you know, taking care of a patient who knows?

Scott Benner 10:45
Well, I always imagined I saw my wife work straight through both of her pregnancies. And in the second one with art, and she, she got home one day, and she said, I was I couldn't move quickly, she was in Manhattan. And she's like, I couldn't move quickly enough to get to the subway in time. So I was late to get on the train. So there were no seats. She's like, I tried to stand but I couldn't. So she sat on the floor for an entire like, like train ride, you know? And, and she's like, no one would give me a seat. I'm so pregnant, and she still kept going. And I think that she showed that determination because she thought, if we leave it just up to that guy to make money for us, we're gonna be in trouble. I I really took more of a shot at me than anything else. But uh,

Matt Fouse 11:29
well, I as well, um, uh, you know, yeah, I'm the basic majority caregiver, I want to say so. God bless the women in our lives.

Scott Benner 11:45
Great. Hawaii has morphed over the last couple of decades. I was a stay at home dad. And when I and that's what they called it. And I was happy to say that. And now you're basically the primary caregiver

Matt Fouse 11:58
changes. I did not like the term sad.

Scott Benner 12:03
The acronym didn't work. That's so funny. I'll tell you back then, when I was when I wrote my book and stuff around Father's Day, I was like, the most popular person in the world because there were very few guys that were would say out loud, this is what I do. And, you know, and had any media contact at all. So I would, I was very popular in June, my mom told me one day she woke up and I was on the front page of her local newspaper. And, and she, she was like, I didn't tell her it was gonna happen. But I also did not expect it to be on the front of the of the section, you know. Now, now, as I'm telling you wondering if people understand that newspapers had sections, but anyway, I was on vacation already. And she called me and she's like, you're on the front page, like the lifestyle section of my newspaper. And I was like, I told him I'm, I'm very famous. so silly. Anyway, so alright, so you have a kindergarten, garden aged child, a wife is obviously a more of a go getter than you are and your cell. You have type one diabetes, is there any other endocrine issues in the family?

Matt Fouse 13:12
I have an older sister who is five years older than me, and she is type one diabetic as well. She got it first, when we were growing up. I so I would have been three, when she got it. Our we grew up in a very small town, in rural Pennsylvania. So endocrinologist, we didn't know they existed. So we had a family practitioner. He was amazing. He kept up to date the best that he could with what he had, where we were. Yeah. And he said, There is no way I would get it. There is absolutely, if I would get it, it would be like getting struck by lightning 10 times. And I got the telltale symptoms. My mom knew it. She still tells a story today of I knew you had it. I didn't want to pack the bags and take you to the hospital. Because then it would be known and I did not want to do it. But here I am my sister and I siblings who I was supposed to not get it and I got it.

Scott Benner 14:25
My mom wasn't supposed to get pregnant, but I have two brothers. So it's funny how doctrine used to work. Like my mother was actually told, you know, it's safe to go ahead and adopt your you know, and you're not going to have children. So they adopt me, and then afterwards, like you don't need to use birth control. And it proved out for a long time. My brothers and I are all five years apart, like like a solid five years apart. So even when my brother Brian was born, they were like, well, that's a fluke. That'll never happen again, which was not good advice because now my mom at you know, 78 years old has a senator in his 30s because she was all like, I can't get pregnant doesn't matter. Wow. Yeah. But But imagine that was actual advice like, oh, can't happen to the second one. He was probably just playing the odds and trying to make your mom feel better. And back. Yeah, backfired on

Matt Fouse 15:17
Yep. Well, so now I'm crossing my fingers, my endocrinologist. I'm very good, like personal friends with him. He said, statistically, with my daughter. It's pretty low. I think he said, 11%. And I'm just like, every time she gets Moody, because she's going through a growth spurt, or, you know, she's like, No, I don't want to do that. I'm like, Oh, she's got diabetes. That's it may check her books or mood change every time she takes a sip of water. Oh, honey, she's got diabetes, we got to check her sugar. So just, I'm crossing my fingers. I mean, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'm still here, but it is in the blood in the jeans is gonna say

Scott Benner 15:55
it's working out for you and your sister. Right? So okay, so you're on the show, Matt, because you you responded when I said I want to talk to people who eat in specific in different ways. And which way do you eat?

Matt Fouse 16:10
I am plant based. Okay, wait, which I consider basically, the vegan eating. I don't eat dairy meat. But I hate vegans. I will not call myself a vegan. I do not like,

Scott Benner 16:29
let's not make all the vegans upset. But Okay. Here's what we see. Let me make sure I let me pick through some ideas. You would need an egg? No. Okay. Is this a dietary decision? Or is it a moral decision? Or is it somewhere in the middle?

Matt Fouse 16:45
There is no morals in my decision whatsoever.

Scott Benner 16:49
Are any morals in any of your decisions? Man? No,

Matt Fouse 16:52
I, um, I still hunt. I deer hunt. Um, you know, I fish? I just don't eat it.

Scott Benner 17:02
I just give it to a friend to do that. So that's super interesting. So your whole life recently? How did you make it to this?

Matt Fouse 17:10
About 15 years ago, I was a marathon runner. Free kids bachelor days when I had five hours to do training runs. And I adapted the vegetarian diet. And I noticed with my training that my healing and my any inflammation from stress was significantly less. And then I went back to eating normal food, you know, dairy in me. And then about two years ago, my wife started having issues with eating dairy. So as a household it's much easier to just eat drink oat milk, versus

Scott Benner 18:05
Yeah, no one of you got this card and then everybody's on this one, right?

Matt Fouse 18:09
Yeah, switch. So I cut dairy out and I started feeling really good. Like I still exercise daily, I run just not 20 miles at a time, right. I weight train. I'm a competitive axe thrower, so I'm fairly active. And I noticed like my joints you know, stop. They're not sore. So then I cut meat out again. And it's just been working for me. It I like the way I feel I feel like my mind is clearer. My thinking just kind of like Spry. I guess it's okay energy.

Scott Benner 18:57
Is there um, where are you a sugar Do you eat sugar?

Matt Fouse 19:02
I do so a lot of the plant base as they will label the food now it's like I feel like it's the new craze plant based plant based plant base. A lot of those can be sugary. So I do I eat sugar. And the plant based diet for me is very grain heavy. So when I initially started eating that way full time I was worried about my sugars, you know, because grain whole wheat spaghetti it can be a nightmare. Yeah, as we all know, with spiking your sugar, but I'm with the exercise that I I make the exercise like a prescription basically like six o'clock I gotta do something I get to go on a hike and it's amazing. I was joking with my endocrinologist. Like, why didn't you ever tell me that if you exercise and eat right, that your sugar's kind of do what they should? At least for me, I will say for me, I know that is not for everybody. But

Scott Benner 20:18
um, no, there used to be this online initiative that I don't think exists anymore called the Big Blue test. And it just challenged people with type one diabetes or diabetes in general, I believe, to go do 10 minutes of exercise, like look at your blood sugar, do 10 minutes of exercise, look at it again, and log that and most people experience some sort of a decrease in their blood sugar, especially people whose blood sugar's were, you know, higher, I think I've come to understand it better now. And thinking that if you don't have active insulin in you, you can exercise without dropping, but most of these people had some sort of mistimed insulin in their system. And their blood sugar's were normally higher, and, you know, so exercise and got that insulin working a little better and move it through their system, you know, more efficiently. That's something so I want to understand what it means to eat a plant based diet. So you got up this morning and ate

Matt Fouse 21:17
what I got up this morning, I ate avocado toast with some sea salt sprinkled on it and this seaweed sprinkles, which I love that adds flavor to it. And then a glass of oat milk.

Scott Benner 21:35
Okay, so you and I had incredibly similar and yet completely different breakfast. So I got up this morning, I took bread that I made myself, I made a slice of toast. And then I fried two eggs, and I ate that with toast. But I did sprinkle sea salt on the toast. Either kado is something it's in my house constantly. I watch my girls eat all the time. I've tried it. And I've come to believe that my palate doesn't want. I it's interesting, I have nothing against vegetables. But I don't eat them at all. And it's to my detriment, and I'm aware of it. But there I am very texture based, not just with my eating. But even like I've noticed one thing about Corona, which is interesting now that some stores have kind of opened up a little bit and people were moving around for a while that when I walk through a store, I touch everything that I go past fat fabrics, like tops, things like that, I it's part of my experience to feel something. And very similarly, if I put a pee in my mouth, it doesn't make sense to me that there's a crunchy shell on the top of squishy and then I'm out like it's hard to it's hard to put into words exactly what my problem is. But I eat like a four year old. And, and it's embarrassing. I am genuinely embarrassed. I don't want to eat a plant based, but I do wish I could incorporate more into my into my diet because I end up having to supplement to make up for those things.

Matt Fouse 23:11
Yeah, and if you google plant based diet, you'll probably get 10 different ideas of what that means it is it means but from what I take away from plant based, it is basically the new vegan except it strays away from the moral ethics of like animals. And if you know some, some people will say well plant based you eat vegan, but sometimes you can eat meat when you want to. So for me I like I do not eat it, it would not be the end of the world. Like if something got snuck in there. But um

Scott Benner 24:01
so you'd eat a steak if you wanted a steak you just don't want one and and so am I to understand that it's the the branding for the lack of a better term. Maybe it's not lack of their hair, maybe it's perfect term. Vegan is I eat plant based because either I want to or I have a moral opposition to eating a living. That was a once living thing. You're saying I have absolutely no trouble eating a once living thing. I just don't want to. Is that right? Okay. Okay. Yes,

Matt Fouse 24:30
yes, that that is my interpretation. In my the way I eat Oh,

Scott Benner 24:37
well, that's this whole series is that it's supposed to be about it's about talking to different people about how they eat. I don't give a man Yeah, about any of anybody's politics around food and I could sit here and make a passionate plea to not you know, farm raised cattle and slaughter for food. I think I could make a great argument about that. And, and I still at the same time, I did have a really Wonderful New York strip steak a couple of days ago so I could make a great argument for I think beef in you know in moderation is great for someone's diet too late so and but not for everybody and I think this is what why you're here is to say that I think you should eat the way your body wants you to eat. Like I don't know if like your body kind of tells you what it likes and what it doesn't like, right? Yeah, what it deals better with I'm sure there's vegan choices that you avoid. GMO pipe open has no visible needle, and it's the first pre mixed autoinjector have glucagon for very low blood sugar and adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is Jeeva hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juice box. g Volk shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit g Volk glucagon.com slash risk. Everyone's given a blood glucose meter by their doctor. But did you ever stop to wonder if you got a good one? Is yours one of the most accurate on the market? Does it have second chance test strips? You know what I mean? So like when you touch the blood and it doesn't work? Do your test strips allow you to go back and get more blood without messing up the accuracy of the test? Is yours easy to hold simple to transport have a bright light. Is it easy to read? Do you have the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, go to Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box to learn more about what I think is the gold standard in accuracy. There's a lot going on at Contour Next one.com Ford slash juice box. For instance, you may be eligible for a free meter. There's information about test chip programs. And it's possible that buying the meter and strips with cash meaning not going through your insurance could be cheaper than going through your insurance. All of these answers and much more are answered at Contour. Next one.com forward slash juice box. The research that happens at T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box has led to increased insurance coverage for blood glucose meter strips, changes in the American Diabetes associations guidelines for pediatric Awan seagulls. And it's also impacted FDA expansion of CGM labeling to include finger stick replacements and Medicare coverage of CGM devices. Here's how it works. You go to T one d exchange.org, forward slash juicebox. You join in something that is 100%, HIPAA compliant, and 1,000,000%. Anonymous, all you have to do is be from the United States, a person who's living with Type One Diabetes with a caregiver of someone who is and then you answer these very simple questions about type one diabetes, the T one D exchange, aggregates that data and comes to conclusions that help move care forward. For people living with Type One Diabetes. I went to the exchange as the parent of a child with Type One Diabetes, it quite literally took me about seven minutes to complete. And that was the end, T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. You could help move things forward too. You can find the links to all the sponsors and so much more at Juicebox podcast.com. We're right there in the show notes of your podcast player. I'm sure there's vegan choices that you avoid.

Matt Fouse 28:45
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that I will not eat those weird. Tofu e noodle things that look like spaghetti. I tried them. I'm like, Oh, great, you know, low carb spaghetti. Awesome. And I think I would rather slurp down snot

Unknown Speaker 29:07
wasn't good.

Matt Fouse 29:09
It was not.

Scott Benner 29:11
I remember hearing somebody that Gosh, I wish I could remember I heard this. They were having the opportunity to try genetically. It's a book she just wrote, I'm never gonna think of her name. She's got an opportunity to try genetically manufactured meats. And you know, just trying them in front of the people who develop them and and she said all the you know, you know, people were like, It's good, right? And she was like, Oh, no, it's terrible. Like I can I can see where the technology is going. But this is this does not taste right. It doesn't feel right. Like nothing about it was quite right. I think she was talking about chicken. Like Like literally like lab made chicken.

Matt Fouse 29:50
Yeah, well, now they are toying around with 3d printing meat. Which is kind of weird. It's like I mean, you know I'm the same way though like whatever floats your boat, whatever is right for you. live your best life do whatever makes you feel good. It doesn't bother me, but like, printing out meat. I don't know. It kind of

Scott Benner 30:14
weird. It seems like a strange leap. I'm I am trying so hard to remember her name right now. I just heard her talking about her book somewhere. And now I am for the life of me having trouble. Jenny klieman I found it. So she wrote a book called sex robots and vegan meat adventures at the frontier of birth food, sex and death. Anyway, she was talking about this. And she and she said, You know, like, that just didn't didn't feel right. It didn't taste right. And yeah, not that I but you know, not that it couldn't at some point, or that maybe in the future? Because right? That's the idea. I'm guessing is that, that some people's arguments are going to be that more and more and more people, and you create more and more and more cattle and pigs and you know, everything else? Like eventually, it'll take more space, effort and resources to feed us then then we can, you know, balance, I guess is the idea.

Matt Fouse 31:10
Oh, absolutely. And we just keep growing too. I mean, what are we at now 7 billion or something? I don't even know the number. All those

Scott Benner 31:20
people eat every day, if they're lucky, and a lot of them don't get to.

Matt Fouse 31:24
And that was a worldwide pandemic. So there might be 15 billion next year. Who knows? I don't know.

Scott Benner 31:30
Yeah, I really, I genuinely care for it. We could be it could be doubling another eight months. I genuinely don't have a feeling about how people eat. Nor do I think that I completely understand the science around. You know, whether cow farts are is dangerous is landfills. You know, there's methane gas that comes from landfills. Is that more than cow farts? Maybe? I don't know. Like, and I think that when you hear arguments one way or the other, you're hearing them from people who, you know, if somebody says, oh, the cows aren't the problem, I'm gonna guess those are either people eating meat or people selling meat. You know, and and people were like, it's the cows swamp, I guess don't want you looking in their landfills. I would pretty much guess you know how stuff like

Matt Fouse 32:11
Yeah, yeah. And I think we'll maybe eventually get to a point where everything equals in some sort of magical equalisation point like, your body tells you, the world will tell us. Hey, we're out of me. And then what would that? Well,

Scott Benner 32:31
I'll tell you what, I'll eat peas that day. Matt, I'll smile. So so it's fair to say that if you learned through trial and error that a completely meat based diet for you know, vegetables is what made your body feel right. You'd be doing that. Absolutely, yeah. No, okay, that makes complete sense to me. Okay, so today for lunch, what are you going to eat?

Matt Fouse 32:56
I will have probably 10 pe, I will slice it up, make a wrap. With the I like how you call it branding of plant base, that options are just you can get anything now you can get you know, Manet's

Scott Benner 33:16
all these delicious sauces, so you can make it taste very, very good. So I'll probably have like a 10 pay wrap with some sprouts and lettuce and maybe a salad on the side. I cannot be more honest and to tell you that I am vigorously trying to figure out what the hell temp is online right now hold on.

Matt Fouse 33:38
It's like a grain base block of I don't think it's like it. Maybe it is a meat substitute. Um, but fry it up in a skillet. It's pretty delicious.

Scott Benner 33:52
Okay, hold on. A traditional Indonesian soy product is made from fermented soy beans. It is made by a natural culturing and controlled fermentation process that bind soy beans into a cake form. Matt you're losing me where it says here a special fungus is used. So it's like it's spam, out of soybeans kind of feeling like visually it gets longer. The way they produce it. It looks like to me but I'm assuming you buy it in a smaller block when you buy it.

Matt Fouse 34:23
Yeah, it comes wrapped in usually like a plastic and it's like a rectangular shape and you can slice it. A lot of the fake and bacon as they call it is now 10 pay base like there's there's a bunch of different brands now. Some of them have grains, some are soy, some are flax. And I will say that it makes you regular, you will not have any problems.

Scott Benner 34:59
You don't need Fiber substitute.

Matt Fouse 35:01
Absolutely not wanting a fiber in my diet.

Unknown Speaker 35:05
That's hilarious.

Scott Benner 35:08
And it's it is very, I guess it's a very natural thing. It's probably a very common food in other countries.

Matt Fouse 35:15
I would assume so. Yeah.

Scott Benner 35:16
Because of the rate because it's just not there's not much to it. But the soy bean, I guess. Yeah. I'm looking at vegan bacon right now. Trying to figure out what that

Matt Fouse 35:27
problem if I made you a BLT Mm hmm. Side by side with the most luscious beautiful pig bacon. And faking bacon, right? soaked in liquid smoke and fried in the skillet. I think you'd be pretty.

Unknown Speaker 35:47
I'd be impressed. Pretty shot,

Matt Fouse 35:49
you would be impressed. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 35:51
I'm not gonna say no, I although this recipe I found says it's made in grapeseed oil and I am very, it's funny of all the things I'm not I am very particular about what kind of oils I take in or don't take in. Grapeseed is one of them. I don't I don't eat that so. Okay, so you're telling me that you could get fake bake into a point where it tasted like real bacon. But you mentioned a lot of different things. Do you make it yourself? Or do you buy it somewhere?

Matt Fouse 36:18
A lot of the brands now have the fake and bacon 10 pay ready to go marinated in a little packet. Okay, you throw it in the skillet for five minutes. It's ready to go. God. I do make like, I'll make my own marinades with like liquid smoke. Some oils and spices and leave it in there to marinate in the fridge and it's good. It's um, I made a BLT the other day. It's one of my favorite lunches. Actually, maybe maybe that's what I thought for lunch today. And I was so impressed. It had the most luscious local tomatoes sliced thick with vegan Manet's homemade bread because everybody's making bread right now. Right? Yeah. That's like the thing I made bread today. And I said Hey, honey, try this you're you're gonna be shocked and my wife was like, I'm impressed.

Scott Benner 37:17
She does she eat plant based?

Matt Fouse 37:19
She does not she will eat you know meat. She does it Gary.

Scott Benner 37:26
Tell me about the fistfight about when the baby started eating food. When did you how does that like I'm imagining like you're a Protestant and she's a Catholic and we're trying to decide how like what religion like get it even like when when when the eating thing comes up. How does that work? Like how does your How does your your oldest eat

Matt Fouse 37:47
my daughter? Oh, my daughter eats a normal diet. Okay, um we'll get her regular yogurt and like for the baby I don't care i'm easygoing what like

Scott Benner 37:59
whatever.

Matt Fouse 38:00
I'm not gonna you know, spread my plant base preachings on other people. I don't care how you eat, whatever, whatever makes you feel good. If eating nothing, but steak makes me feel good. Yeah, go for it. But whatever. I couldn't

Scott Benner 38:16
even put throw a soap box in front of you. You couldn't really even get up and preach about plant base. It really is just about what's right for you.

Matt Fouse 38:24
Absolutely. And that that was my decision with eating that way. For you know, my diabetes and for the way I feel actually it's, it's my mind is it feels clearer. I joke that it made me Whittier with my wife, you know, like, I get to the punch.

Unknown Speaker 38:50
But she's laughing more you're saying

Matt Fouse 38:54
Why? That's my bad dad joke. Boy. Hey, hey, I'm funnier. Right?

Scott Benner 39:00
I bet you she doesn't agree with that law. As a matter of fact, I was hilarious the other day in public. Matt, I'm not gonna lie to you. There were people around me just gathered around. Everyone's having a good time. And I looked at my wife and my wife had a look on my face on her face. They said to me, oh, yeah, here this this one's gonna tell this one again that he's gonna roll into that story that and then they're all gonna laugh because they've never heard it before. And I'm stuck here hearing it for the 37th time.

Matt Fouse 39:25
Absolutely. Oh, we are so similar. Yes, yeah. Ah, this whole pandemic you know I'm not we're not rounds are normal group of people because you see one at a time instead of hanging out in a circle and same exact story. Like my white shirt those jokes 100 times and every time I get a chance with a new audience.

Unknown Speaker 39:50
Oh, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 39:51
God,

Scott Benner 39:51
I felt energized. I was like, Oh, hold on. These people don't know me. This will be good.

Unknown Speaker 39:58
The best is when

Matt Fouse 40:01
My wife will tell a funny joke and I won't laugh about it. But then I'll steal the joke around friends. She's like, Wait a second. That's my job.

Scott Benner 40:09
I'm the one that said that and you'd pretended it wasn't funny. And then you're probably upset if she didn't laugh when you thought it. Understand narcissism, Marsha, I gotcha. Well, okay, so all right, let's roll into one more meal. Like tonight for dinner. everybody's having one thing, what are you eating?

Matt Fouse 40:31
I try to stay lower carb for dinners. Okay, um, because I, I can eat anywhere from 7pm to 10. Because I never, you never know what my schedule is gonna be with life. So if I eat later, I just try to stay lower carb. So you know, maybe a salad with some garbanzo beans. And whatever else I whip up, I use the instapot a lot. I'm really big into eggplant. I love eggplant. And I can throw something in the instant pot for 10 minutes. And it's like this magical dinner. I slaved over all day. But you press a button. It's pretty nice. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 41:19
What about like, though?

Scott Benner 41:21
When's the last time you had pizza? I'm imagining you'd have to make it for yourself. And there's some sort of substitute for cheese. Right? But this everything else works. So how do you do that?

Matt Fouse 41:30
So pizza, we will make it home because my daughter loves pizza, she has a five year old. So I would get the dough premade in the bag at the grocery store, we'll roll it out. And my daughter can put her normal cheese on it. And usually what I will do is I will just put the sauce down. Or just olive oil and then put whatever I want on it like veggies or I do not like the fake Jesus. They have a weird consistency. For me. I have yet to find a brand that I think tastes good. So I'll make more of like a flatbread type, and then a little olive oil and vegetables or just Yes, a

Scott Benner 42:18
red sauce and have a tomato pie kind of a thing?

Matt Fouse 42:21
Absolutely. Yes. And that's easy, because you can throw both in the oven and everybody can eat the way they want to. And yeah, it's

Scott Benner 42:29
all good. That sounds nice. It really does. I mean, I I'm just trying to wrap my head around. Because I think the reason I'm asking so much is because I believe that most people's idea would be either a I don't want to just eat vegetables or how hard it would be to eat something new day after day after day. But you'd really don't have that feeling at all. Like you're just

Matt Fouse 42:49
I don't I've been eating like that long enough that you just kind of have these meals in your back pocket. It's kind of like one of your episodes. You were talking about Bolus saying how you just kind of learned, like, well, the moon is a waning gibbous tonight. So I'm going to Bolus this you know, so it's like, you kind of have these things in your back pocket that's like, wow, tonight, I'm having the eggplant with tomato sauce base with some flat bread and then you get used to it, it is harder at first. There's a lot of really good cookbooks out there that will give you ideas because you know, your diet is kind of limited, but there is a substitution for anything you like that is normal eating pretty much or they're like,

Unknown Speaker 43:45
God, I'm sorry. Like, if

Matt Fouse 43:47
you like bacon, there's bacon. If you like steak, there's steak type, consistent things. So it's um, you learn it's a learning process. Yeah.

Scott Benner 44:00
Are there more carbs in plant based eating than people would imagine? Like how like how carb heavy are your meals?

Matt Fouse 44:13
I think I think I'm gonna say yes and no. So if you eat a lot of vegetables, you could eat plant based low carb ish. If you eat the heavy greens and potatoes and spaghetti and wheat and bread, you could be very high carb. So I think that question is, it depends on how you like to eat. Okay, so

Scott Benner 44:44
if it's more vegetables, there's going to be fewer carbs. I guess unless you involve more routes and things like like potatoes and yams and stuff like that. There's a little more there. But otherwise your other options are more flour. Great. based and which are gonna bring carbs with it? Yes. So but even like you could have a potato chip and be vegan and like my daughter has a vegan friend and I am fascinated by how poorly she eats. Because in my mind vegan means healthy. That's, you know, my, my leap and yet she's the kid who's in the snack drawer more than anyone else because she's she's positive. There's no nothing from an animal in that drawer basically.

Matt Fouse 45:29
Oh, absolutely. You can eat like an alley rat and still be vegan got it is actually pretty shocking What? Technically vegan foods can be like, you would never in a million years think but Oreos? are vegan, right? Or am I allowed to say brands,

Unknown Speaker 45:53
whatever you want got

Matt Fouse 45:55
like Pringles are technically vegan. You can eat Pringles for dinner, hovering over the sink,

Scott Benner 46:06
you know, and and tell everyone you're a vegan. So there is a way for me to be an incredibly unhealthy vegan

Matt Fouse 46:14
100%

Scott Benner 46:16
as long as I can be involved, then that's fine. I could be vegan till Finally, I could change my eating habits up and maintain my level of actually, that's not true. As I get older. I just there's fewer, like junk food, I guess type things that I'm willing to tolerate. And they just don't. I've come to believe that as I get older and my body gets older, it's less capable of overwhelming the hell that is the poorly constructed food and you know, things that aren't have any natural ingredients. And then whatsoever. You know, I used to be able to eat a bag of Doritos and it meant nothing to me. And now if I see it or eat Oh, I think I would never eat that. And you know, it's just it's interesting, because I put it in my body and my body would fight against it the whole way through it would just be like this shouldn't be in here. Yep, but that does come with age a little bit. People will find out sadly as they get older.

Drink Coffee.

Matt Fouse 47:16
I drink I live off of coffee. Okay, um, so my job if you want to call it that I'm self employed stay at home dad. So I own a mobile espresso business. So I always have the espresso machine on. I am basically like a caffeine addict. It's nonstop. It's

Scott Benner 47:43
not I didn't mean to like I didn't know if that was something you did or didn't want to share. But I feel like we've hit into something a mobile espresso business you bring me a cup of coffee.

Matt Fouse 47:54
So, yes, I own it's a Vesper Abbaye. It's a three wheeled scooter from Italy

Scott Benner 48:03
Dude, I'm already on your Instagram keep talking.

Matt Fouse 48:05
Yeah, guys. Um, and I fabricated in espresso machine and all that good stuff on it. So I cater to movie sets, weddings, corporate events. Right now work is kind of dead because everything I do is event based. There's no there's no movies being filmed. No TV shows being filmed. So um, but like I got to do some cool things. I did the set of House of Cards and they're filming it around here. Veep a few other movies and documentaries. It's fun. So I you know make espresso for famous people and come home and be like, Hey, honey, Robin Wright today he told me. Hey, Matt, sweetie, your cappuccino is delicious. She's like, well, maybe Robin Wright can pack your lunch tomorrow.

Scott Benner 49:01
I don't think she's going to because she wasn't putting up with Sean Penn. I don't think she's gonna put up with me either. Yeah. That's a really interesting to what part of the country are you in?

Matt Fouse 49:12
I am right outside of Baltimore. Okay. Yeah, wow.

Scott Benner 49:18
Well, that's really I did not expect you to say that. I was just wondering like, my thought process was, most people can't live without coffee. So I want to make sure to ask while everybody's telling me how they eat if it fits into their diet or not. I've never had a cup of coffee in my entire life.

Matt Fouse 49:35
You know, I call you those weirdos I don't know how you live Do you sir coke. What

Unknown Speaker 49:42
do you do? I don't do

Scott Benner 49:43
any drugs. I don't drink and I don't think I'd be in better shape. Even just for that. But it's just it's it's nature's joke against me honestly. Now I don't think I say it on here. Everyone smile. I don't think I've had the equivalent of case of beer in my life maybe, you know and I, my parents drank coffee all the time. There was constantly coffee in a coffee pot in my house. I never remember having any aversion to it. Nothing bad happened. I wasn't burned by a cup of coffee at a young age or something like that. It just never occurs to me. I have an incredible amount of like, mental or intellectual energy. And I when you stimulate me, it goes way too far the other way. Like, I'd be the worst person to be drunk with I think, although, although I'm guessing, and I think if you gave me a cup of coffee, you'd you'd probably get like binding gag me until it wore off. I just I would go on. Like, look how fast I talk now. Yeah, I don't do that. I drink mainly unsweetened iced tea and water. throughout my day. I try not to have too much caffeine or sugar. And I don't know. I don't know. I see. Everybody loves their coffee. You want to love it? You don't I mean? Like, it seems like one of those things. It would be absolutely amazing. It does. Yeah. doesn't strike me for some reason. Okay, so let's talk about bolusing for your diet. So this morning, avocado toast. I'm gonna guess is it one slice of avocado toast and a half of an avocado. I'm going to try to get

Matt Fouse 51:24
it depends on how hungry I am.

Scott Benner 51:27
But sometimes it's too. Okay. So what do I so Okay, so for avocado, I'm guessing at around 14 carbs and depending on the toast you like, somewhere between 15 and 22? Yep. Right, that right there. Okay. And there's fat in the avocado, which people wouldn't think about which would probably stretched out your you need for your boss. Is that true? Does this need like some sort of an extended or something like that?

Matt Fouse 51:54
Correct? Yes. Um, I recently um, thanks to thanks to you, actually, the podcast. Oh, hold

Scott Benner 52:02
on. It clearly. Is this the part where you say something nice about me. Go ahead. Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Take your time with me. Because

Matt Fouse 52:10
I recently, you know, went on loop from listening to the looping episode, I think with Katie de Simone, right. It's amazing. And I joined the Facebook group. So now with loop, it's a new way of thinking for me as a diabetic. Because the last 30 years, I thought differently, basically, Thomas so. So now, instead of being like, Okay, this meal has 40 carbs, right. I'm going to Bolus for that. I did this advanced diabetic ninja trick I that has been working amazing for me where I will bolus, like half or three fourths of the suggested Bolus that Luke tells me to because I never know what I'm going to do outside. Like if I'm going to do yard work. So like, previously, you'd have all this insulin on board. And that's it. You got it. It's there. You're getting it. Yeah. Where now with loop, I can do like half of what it suggests I can go outside and mow or pick up sticks in the yard or whatever. And loop kind of, you know, because it adjusts every so often, like what every five minutes it makes a decision. Well, it's getting kind of equalizes itself out where I don't go too low or too high. That's nice. Yeah. And I'm actually going to try to do the auto Bolus branch coming up. I've heard great things about that.

Scott Benner 53:49
I recommend that one. Okay. Yes. For sure.

Matt Fouse 53:53
I made the loop at the beginning of the pandemic. It was like, You know how it is I was all nervous. I sat down, I read all the documents. And I have yet to update, because I'm like, I don't want to lose something great that I had.

Scott Benner 54:11
Well, the great thing about that Auto Bolus branch, in my opinion is that it really the only difference in it is that there's a switch to turn the auto Bolus offer on. So if you put it on and you hate it to shut it off, and you still shut it on, you have the old version then like that, or the functionality, at least if you have the older version, which is an older, it's still being updated. And I think it was just updated recently, actually. And people use it all the time with a lot of Yes. So the podcast has been helpful for you. How long have you been listening to it?

Matt Fouse 54:40
Probably about a year no calm. I would make it my daily habit. When I did go to the gym. I would play an episode and run on the treadmill and lift my weights and but yeah, it is I have to thank you. It's A new way of thinking, honestly, it's like, I like to joke with my friends being like, yeah, Hama, I'm an advanced diabetic. I listened to a podcast,

Scott Benner 55:13
like we're gonna start calling you all juicers or something like that, that might be funny. Well, first thank That's very kind of you to say, and I appreciate it I, I steadfastly maintain, if you were to talk to me privately, and I wasn't being goofy for this, that I shared some tools and you're using them, it's all you, you know, they mean, like, you just heard ideas you hadn't heard before. But the reason I enjoyed hearing that from you, is because you've been diabetic for so long. And everyone I bumped into wants to immediately say, Oh, your podcast must just be listened to by parents of kids with diabetes. Because those people you know, they're more careful, or they're more involved, or Bob, and I'm like, No, I, it's about 5050. I have adults living with and, and parents of, and I get to see that actually, because of the private Facebook group. When people come in, they say what their relationship to diabetes is, which is incredibly helpful for me to know who I'm talking to. And I'm not I'm not surprised by it. I'm surprised by how many people are surprised by it, that they don't recognize that the way insulin works, is the way insulin works gonna work for you the same way it works for my daughter, and people are different within Of course, they're small variables. And some people are different. There's outliers and everything. But most of people, it's the same insulin goes in it has a certain amount of time before it works. You're trying to balance that insulin against you know, the action of the food and you just try to make this this you know, a fair fight between the food, the insulin, that's not specific from me, to you, or from you to my daughter or anything else.

Unknown Speaker 56:52
So absolutely.

Scott Benner 56:52
I'm always I'm always a little weirded out when people like, Oh, that's just for kids. Right? And I'm like, why does it? Like why do you think it matters? timing your bolus is just important for children. Before we move on, and please do be honest, and I'm being serious, to be honest, in your mind, who's more famous me or Robin Wright? Penn go?

Matt Fouse 57:12
Oh, you definitely.

Unknown Speaker 57:15
Definitely.

Scott Benner 57:16
She's a better actress. But I mean, for you personally. I'm more important. I think

Matt Fouse 57:21
she she's better looking. I'm sorry.

Unknown Speaker 57:24
Well, yeah.

Scott Benner 57:27
Absolutely gorgeous woman, but I and I can't compete on that level. But I think I'm at least I don't know if more famous is the right way to put it. But I am definitely more important. I'm saying in a rowboat situation with a leak and one of us has to go over to save to others. Robin Wright pens in the water, right?

Matt Fouse 57:43
Oh, 100%. Never, she never taught me about

Scott Benner 57:50
who's gonna help you polish for those coconuts when we get to the desert island. I gotta be honest with you, if you don't push me out of the boat immediately, I'd even be disappointed. I'd be like, What's he doing? I'd push you out and get her back. Nevertheless, alright, so prior to looping bolusing for your way of eating anything special people should know about it.

Matt Fouse 58:19
My bolusing worked fairly the same. I you know, I would Pre-Bolus before a meal. The only difference would be like I said, you would Bolus and you could cancel a Temp Basal on the Omni pod. But it didn't make the decisions based on what you were doing. What is what I love loop for like, if I get on the treadmill and forget to do a override that hey, body, I'm exercising loop most of the times figures it out like after like 10 minutes of running. It's like dudes doing something

Scott Benner 59:09
blood sugar spawn starting we

Matt Fouse 59:11
better cut with our circuit and, and it's very, very seldom that I will go when drop to where I have to get off and

Scott Benner 59:21
drink juice or whatever. Which I see you have starbursts on your desk for our conversation.

Matt Fouse 59:27
That is my go to it's quick and

Scott Benner 59:31
you know I never asked people but and I don't see most of the people you just have a great internet cache and so we're looking at each other but I don't see most people while I'm recording which I'd like to change in the future maybe but but I can hear people eating and checking their blood sugars in the background. I never mentioned it I wonder if people listening can hear like sometimes you'll just hear like you know, like there's a click in the background or something like that. I'm like somebody's checking their blood sugar right now or, or you'll you'll hear a little fumbling around. Some rappers or something, and I leave it in the show because I think it's interesting.

Matt Fouse 1:00:04
Oh, totally, it's real life. I mean, that is what we deal with. So it's like, You know why? Right?

Scott Benner 1:00:11
Okay, so bolusing, you were just using a lot of the skills from the podcast, you were doing Temp Basal increases and decreases and spreading out insulin and that kind of thing, just lining up insulin with the impact and that was working. But what you like about loop is that it can take bazel away when it sees you getting a low, I think that's a no brainer. I think that whether it's tandem, you know, whatever their, their loop, the loop system is called IQ or something like that. Or if it's going to be the forthcoming on a pod five or maytronics. Got another one coming out, you know, next year. I think I think that everyone who wants it and can afford it should at least try it. I think you should think about it the way we thought about fast like, Alright, well, let's see what this does. You know, because maybe you're gonna have a great experience, like method, and it'll change your life a

Matt Fouse 1:01:04
little bit. So absolutely. And I I recently, my endocrinologist was hanging out with me at my house, we're buds and I showed him the loop. And like, you're not gonna make me stop coming to see you. Right? Because technically, it's not FDA approved then. Right? Ah, and he's like, no, like, if we were both discussing as I think within the next decade, pretty much every diabetic will be on the looping system. It's the first thing to happen. That's a huge advancement. It's to me, it's like I say, I'm three fourths cured.

Scott Benner 1:01:55
Sometimes, right? Yeah, absolutely. Like able your blood sugar's can be.

Matt Fouse 1:01:59
I rarely go high. The only times I go high is things that are out of my control, like, a bad site, your Whoops, I forgot the bowl was it's all on me. Right? Um, so I yeah, it's, it's amazing.

Scott Benner 1:02:18
That's Arden's budget, or for the last six hours.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:21
Beautiful

Scott Benner 1:02:22
that you love it. It's just it's between. I mean, it's between 80. And she hit 120. For a second, I'm gonna be honest with you. What happened was she got out of bed. And she went and got cleaned up and got ready for school. And I know she walked away from the Riley link. Yep. So right when she started to drift up because she was feet on the floor, she didn't get a little insulin. And I did nothing, nothing to fix that. And she rose at 759 to 130. And by 839, she was back under 120. And by nine o'clock, she was 100 again. And now now she's 90, and she's been 90 for like the last hour. So that is just that's a weight lifted that. I mean, listen, you want me to make a prognostication right here, you'll have a steak one day. And my podcasts will get put out of business eventually, by algorithms. It really well. And when it ends, it's going to end because of algorithms, I am going to have taught everyone in the world how to use them. And there's going to be no reason to talk about diabetes anymore. Knock on wood, or we can go to the

Matt Fouse 1:03:38
wall. You know, like?

Scott Benner 1:03:40
Yeah, oh, God, please, listen, I love doing this podcast, I hope something else new comes up. But we all have to learn. But, but no, seriously, like not that not that talking about diabetes wouldn't be necessary. Because I think there's a lot of benefit in that part of it too. But just the management side of it, like when you really think about this show over the last six years. This show is is when you're talking about insulin at its core, me explaining the convoluted way that I broke down how insulin worked and how you can put it into practice in your life and how we have. And at some point, if you have a CGM and a pump with an algorithm in it, it's going to be about getting your settings right. And press Pre-Bolus thing on time. And,

Matt Fouse 1:04:25
yeah, that that's the thing too, is like, I like to say garbage in garbage out. You still have to know that. You don't hop in a car. And when you're 16 and just go, you have to learn all the fine you know how to turn but the key and then turn it on it. There'll be some good stuff.

Scott Benner 1:04:45
Yeah, but it just won't be I won't be. Although you know what, in fairness, most people are still not going to be able to afford this stuff. And it is short sighted of me to even say that because while I have a lot of interaction with the people who have pumps have glucose monitors, there are plenty of people listening who do not have those things and don't have a pathway to them either. And, and I think those people are always going to need that conversation. I'm just thinking that there's maybe I'm wishful thinking that one day, it's not going to be necessary for someone like me to sit down and say, Okay, now, you put your insulin in here, and you wait this amount of time, then you start eating, try not to eat that first eat this first because we want the digestion to like, you know, and then we'll spread it out, we'll do a nice extended bolus over two and a half hours. And that should take care of the fat and protein like I'm hoping not to have that conversation anymore. But at the same time, when, if you really asked me to describe it, I haven't just dumbed it down for the show, I genuinely believe this, it's just there's a timeline where the food impacts your blood sugar. And during that timeline, you have to equally impact the food with insulin. And that's just sort of it, you know, I don't see another another, I don't see a reason to think of it in a different way to be perfectly honest.

Matt Fouse 1:06:00
Yeah, insulin always works, you just have to know how to manipulate it with all those variables, which can be like rocket scientists to some people. And second nature. And others.

Scott Benner 1:06:12
I think, if you notice, when I'm talking to Jenny, I'll use a phrase when the insolence doing what I expect it to do. And, in my mind, what that means is, we have a good pathway for the sun to get dark and spotty. So a site that's working well. And then I do something, I know what the insulin supposed to do, based on what I did, like, I'm so aware of the amount I'm using and the timing I'm using, I know what's going to happen. And when that doesn't happen, if there's good insulin delivery, it's easy for me to fix, because the variables that everybody you know, talks about, there's so many variables. There aren't as many variables for me. But it's just because I've seen it so many times. Like, I don't know if you can see this now. And I don't know what this is gonna say, because I haven't seen this in a while. So I'm following five people's blood sugars right now. And with the exception of somebody who I just started talking to yesterday, I've got 9195, a 68, and a 79. And so, and a 91, which is my daughter's. So all those people, all of them are just doing what I do. That's it and they're all having reasonable and one of those lower blood sugars is a person who's switching to a pump today. So they have tresiba leftover in them and they're trying to get a pump going so that Yeah, his low little lower blood sugar is going to come up really soon. And I there's part of me that wants to that wishes I could make that public that you could look and go look Scott's following and helping five I'm just texting with him. I'm not there. I'm not I don't know exactly what the and I'm just like now a little more a little less turned off, turn it down. I talked to him for a couple of days there people sometimes there are people I owe favors to sometimes there are people you know, I just are in such bad ways that I think it's not going to help them if I don't talk to them. Or they get into a bad spot where listening to the podcast is impossible for them for certain reasons. And all I know is you use the tools use them about the way I tell you to use them. And it works. And that's it. Yep. So yep. Hopefully it hopefully that's what happens. All right, what am I not? What are the pitfalls of plant based eating? Tell me one of the things that you really hate about it that you shouldn't even admits other people or anything.

Matt Fouse 1:08:39
Oh, I would say the social aspect of it. Um, like, I won't say peer pressure, but like, you go to a potluck or something. And, you know, Aunt Trudy is excited that she just made these delicious cupcakes and is like, yeah, I gotta try one. He got to try one of these, you know, like, I know, that's loaded with 10 pounds of butter. And then yeah, there's this social aspect of like, I don't want to, like, make somebody feel bad and be like, well, I can't eat that. Yeah. That for me is the hardest part. And then like going to restaurants can sometimes you can be that annoying person and being like, well, what's in this? What's this? What's this?

Unknown Speaker 1:09:34
So

Matt Fouse 1:09:36
we rarely go out to eat, or of course now, we're not going out to eat but when we do, it's the places that I know what the menu is. Right? And honestly with a soon to be six year old and a baby who knows how often we'll go out to eat anyway.

Scott Benner 1:09:58
Everybody suddenly didn't have Corona anymore. You're still not going anywhere for about a year. Yeah. So just the idea of it's, it's different enough that it's noticeable and you might end up like hurting someone's feelings or asking a waiter, like, please make sure you use a pan that hasn't had butter in it or something like that, like you actually would have to say I'm, I'm completely vegan, like, I don't want any animal based stuff. And then do you think that people who don't see, even though it's not your perspective? People who don't think about animals the way like a classic vegan might think about it? Look at you and like, the soft guy doesn't want to see it in a cow. Like the view? Do you think there's that too? Like, do you think people

Matt Fouse 1:10:42
are 100%? Yes. I come across so often have like, I very politely say, Oh, no, no, thank you. I don't want to eat your cookies. One because I'm diabetic. And because our brother in it. Um, and some people just have a difficult time when you are different than what they are used to. It's like, Wait a second, you don't eat butter? Why? Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:11
Why don't you do that? And now you're explaining yourself and you don't want to be telling me but you don't need to explain yourself. Right? Like that must be. Right.

Matt Fouse 1:11:18
Yeah. It's like, well, I choose to not eat this way. Because it makes me feel better. And even sometimes, for some people, they can't grasp that either. Like, you don't eat like me.

Scott Benner 1:11:34
It's no different probably than a lot of social division in a lot of different ways. I would think you're, you're, quote unquote, too different. And so there must be a reason. There's something wrong with you. Or you're making me feel like there's something wrong with me. And then there becomes you know, that kind of like, clash. It's interesting. It really is. Yeah. Do you avoid telling people in situations where you don't need to?

Matt Fouse 1:12:01
Oh, yeah. 100% I am not that person of Hey, did you know I'm vegan?

Scott Benner 1:12:11
in a crowd of 1000 people, do you think you'd have more acceptance telling people you have type one diabetes or that you don't eat meat?

Unknown Speaker 1:12:18
Oh, type one diabetes?

Scott Benner 1:12:22
is wearing a thing on his arm but at least delete a cow. For cows have it happened to them? And are delicious, though. That's the problem. Your meat is too delicious. What are you gonna do? I mean a sauce. Think about a sausage from a pig. Oh my god. It's so good. Is there anything you miss?

Matt Fouse 1:12:46
Yes, like, I I write outside of Baltimore. I love crabs. I always say if I break my diet, though, it will be at a crab feast. I'll be food. One 100% Yes.

Scott Benner 1:13:08
I mean, I imagine there had to be something that you're just I'm interesting when I eat I don't particularly have like you couldn't say to me Hey, let's go here for dinner and make me like oh my God, that's an amazing thing. We have to do that. I'm not a real oddly of food person. I do appreciate good food versus average food. I have learned to like you know, I I use a smoker to smoke some meats. You know, and there's an obvious it's just obviously better. And there's I got making pizza and I I'll make the dough myself and you know, like, like, take the time to cook it at a temperature where it comes up the way you expect it from a from like a you know, from a restaurant. And I can see the difference in that I can see if you like cold ferment pizza dough that it digests easier. Like like, little stuff like that. But having said that, I would eat a slice of pizza from a boardwalk in three seconds and you know, think nothing of it. And then 10 hours later go oh my god, I still don't feel well for that terrible slice.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:13
Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:14:14
just really, eating is an interesting thing. It just really is that

Matt Fouse 1:14:17
quality makes a difference. You're right though yet.

Scott Benner 1:14:21
Yep. No, I hear it. I really do. So is there anything that you would want to tell people that we haven't talked about?

Matt Fouse 1:14:30
I would say one of the best outcomes which I wasn't even expecting were my labs. My a one C is always been, you know, great in range. But like my cholesterol and triglycerides and everything else. I was hovering at high cholesterol. Hmm. We have chicken pet chickens. So Previous to choosing plant based diet, I would eat like six hard boiled eggs a day. And my cholesterol was I think 190 hovering, like, my endocrinologist was like, Yeah, what's going on here? Like, oh, I have pet chickens. And I don't want those eggs. But, um, after choosing plant based diets, my labs were just the best I have ever seen. Okay. Yeah, my I think my cholesterol last time was like 110 total. In my performance, I'm not anywhere near a professional athlete level. But like, running, I don't get winded is quickly, I can go further. I can go longer. I recover quicker. And I attribute it to the plant based diet. If you had

Scott Benner 1:15:59
your exact diet that you have right now, but three times a week you had, I don't know, chicken or beef or fish. You're saying that you would feel differently physically? Like not as well. I'm assuming like inflammation, aches and pains stuff like that. Is that? Yes, yeah.

Matt Fouse 1:16:18
Yes. Yeah. Like my, I noticed my joints would be sluggish. Like, I am. 37. That's how old I am. Yeah. So you know, I get up in awe. But I don't experience any of that anymore.

Scott Benner 1:16:36
Wow. That's pretty. That's amazing. That's a that is? Definitely. I mean, I'm 10 years older than you and I, I think I'm more than 10. But let's just say I'm 10 years older than you. And I, I know what you're saying, My hands hurt sometimes. And they're achy. And you know, I do I wonder what all that is about? If it's just me getting older, if I'm eating something and taking something in that I don't want. My one of my last questions for you is, do you have to supplement with anything? Is there anything, you're not getting your diet that you have to take through vitamins,

Matt Fouse 1:17:11
I do take a multivitamin, just to make sure that I get all the vitamins and minerals that I need that might be left out. I get plenty of protein. You know, I probably get 90 grams a day, which for my body is just fine. For me.

Scott Benner 1:17:33
I think it's obvious that you found the way to eat that really works best for you. So I assume that's really what everybody should be doing is eating the things that make their body perform the way you know that it should. So that's Yes. It's really cool that I found it. Absolutely. Yeah, it really is. I appreciate you sharing all this with me. And with everybody. I see a very pregnant woman behind you.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:57
That is my daughter. Well,

Scott Benner 1:18:03
is that a boy or girl? Do you know?

Matt Fouse 1:18:05
We don't know? What number two, my wife said that we could find out and when it was time. She did it. And she's gets to make a decision. So we did we so we did it though. With my daughter. We didn't know either. And when she came out the doctor was like dad do you want to call it and she had her little legs closed and it was I say it was like scratching a lottery ticket off. I had to literally get a check. He all the legs apart. I was like girl.

Scott Benner 1:18:42
That's amazing. That is a that's a nice story. It really is. Well, that's it. I was supposed to cut the cord but then I couldn't panic situation something medical. And then when it was over I felt like so disappointed by it. And it stuck with me for a while. I don't know why with coal and then with Arden. I don't know what happened. Now I can't I couldn't tell you for certain if I cut Arden's cord or not. I really don't know. So it becomes a blur. Yeah, get ready for that when you get older everybody just going I vaguely remember being there when the human life came into the world couldn't tell you much about it. Really is a delightful thing getting older. Well, I'm I'm I think it's really cool that you figured this out and that you shared it with people. You're saying there are some really good cookbooks people could try? And I think if they're interested in it, they should give this a whirl. It obviously sounds inexpensive. Honestly, it's cheaper to eat this way. Right or no?

Matt Fouse 1:19:42
I think yes and no, I think you can eat on a very tight budget plant base. And you can eat very expensive.

Scott Benner 1:19:53
Some of the things that are made by companies that are pre packaged and ready to go can be more expensive. Is that Yeah,

Matt Fouse 1:19:59
then there I think it when if Paltrow has a cookbook, and if you dissect the meals, they come out to be like $300. I mean, it's like all these rare spices that are brought in from an elephant train from, you know, this country.

Scott Benner 1:20:18
So I meant for regular people, not people who, yeah, who read the goop website, but yeah. Which we're not going to talk about some of the things like when it says you should do with your vagina, because I think it sounds unsafe. She's got a very strange website. Let's just say that. Anyway. All right, man, I really appreciate you doing this and taking the time. I suppose. This is wonderful for you to do.

Matt Fouse 1:20:42
Thank you so much for having me. And, uh, I appreciate what you do. And you're thank you for being there. For us.

Scott Benner 1:20:51
It's my pleasure. It really is. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, g Volk, glucagon. Find out more about chivo chi popin at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juice box. you spell that GVOKEGL you see ag o n.com. forward slash juice box. I'd also like to remind you to go to the T one D exchange at T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box help move things forward. And a huge thank you to the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Upgrade your blood glucose meter game at Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box.

A few quick reminders. Are you looking for those diabetes pro tip episodes? You can find them right here in your podcast player beginning at Episode 210. Or at diabetes pro tip.com. Have a great doctor that you use for your type one diabetes care or need one, check out juicebox docs.com. Has the show been particularly helpful to you? Or do you enjoy it? Leave a fantastic five star review on Apple podcasts. And if you're listening in an app, please subscribe. It helps the show and measurably hit subscribe. now. I'll wait while you do it. Hey, done. You got it. Okay, great. If you're looking for an app, there are plenty. And they should be free. Never have to pay to listen to this show. Go to Juicebox podcast.com. Right across the top of the page. You'll see listen on Apple, podcasts, Spotify, get it on Google amazon music available on Pandora, subscribe on your Android, ask Amazon Alexa. And we're actually even on amazon music right now have to add that to the list. And we just got added to Audible. So if you listen to a lot of books on tape, I guess that's how you still talk about them. Even though there's no tape involved. You can also listen to the Juicebox Podcast right there on Audible. There are a bazillion great ways to listen. None of them should cost you anything you should not have to pay for a podcast app. Again, those are right at the top of Juicebox podcast.com. While you're there, check it out. There's a lot going on there. You can get a link to the private Facebook group. There's a great a one cm blood glucose calculator and conversion. It's really wonderful made by a listener. You can like you know, put in many moles, right? Like say you're in Europe, and you're like, listen to the podcast and people are saying my blood sugar was 120 you can type in 120 click on mg dl and it tells you that over there in the Europe that means 216 it even tells you what your average a one c would be. If that was your average blood sugar. It even has an A one c thing, right? So you can put in your a one C of my one C is 5.50. Well, that must be an average blood sugar of 111 if you're in the Americas, or on other places, mm Oh l 6.2. It's a really cool little calculator. It's absolutely free. Check it out right there on Juicebox podcast.com

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