Scott Benner 5/29/23 Scott Benner 5/29/23

#921 After Dark: Liv(e)

Liv has type 1 diabetes. Warning. Discussion of attempted suicide.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 00:00 Hello friends and welcome to episode 921 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today, I'll be speaking with Liv. She's the young lady who has type one diabetes for about a year. She's here to talk about that, and a lot more. She's had some mental health issues a suicide attempt, and we're gonna break it all down and chat about it. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you like saving money, listen to this 35% off your entire order at cosy earth.com with the offer code juice box at checkout because the Earth has amazing sheets that I sleep on clothes that I wear towels that I dry my bottom with, you might like them to use the offer code juicebox at checkout at cozy earth.com to save 35% If you'd like to save 10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp just go to better help.com forward slash juice box you'll save that 10% And to get five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D for free with your first order of ag one from Athletic Greens use my link athletic greens.com forward slash juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod five Omni pod.com forward slash use boxes where you're going to learn more and get started with the Omni pod five, or the Omni pod dash. You can wear the exact same insulin pump at Arden does at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Are you nervous?

Unknown Speaker 01:55 A little bit?

Scott Benner 01:57 That's okay. That's probably your voice is being recorded and people are gonna listen to it.

Unknown Speaker 02:02 No way. Yeah, didn't sign up for this

Scott Benner 02:05 box, there are bugs living on your skin and inside of you to I don't know if you do that. Oh, that's

Unknown Speaker 02:09 Wow, that really helps. I mean, everything's so much better.

Scott Benner 02:14 It'd be nice and comfortable. you'll introduce yourself any way you want to be known. There's no reason if you'd use your last name unless you have a reason to. If we talk about other people in your life, it's fine with me if you use their name. Just please don't get to the end of the recording and think Oh, I really shouldn't have said my aunt's name three times. Because it creates a hellscape for me over here. Other than that, I honestly don't care what you say. Okay, all right, Julio, if you're ready to go look at you referencing mid level rappers from the 90s.

Unknown Speaker 02:51 That's my niche.

Scott Benner 02:54 That's where I live right there. I'm down with opp. Let's get going. So what guy just introduce yourself.

Liv 03:02 All right. My name is live without the E. And I got diagnosed with type one a year ago tomorrow.

Scott Benner 03:11 Get out of here. Yeah. Really? Yeah. How are you on the podcast? A year to almost to the day of your diagnosis that on purpose? Um,

Unknown Speaker 03:23 no, actually, I was really surprised that you picked that day. It took me a week to realize that that was actually the day before but um, yeah, I don't know. Just sheer luck. How old are you? I am 21. Wow. Yeah, I got diabetes for my 21st birthday.

Scott Benner 03:45 Were you thinking you were gonna get beer?

Unknown Speaker 03:47 Yeah. But hey, I got both. Don't worry.

Scott Benner 03:52 It took care of everything. So you're going to be 22 tomorrow and you've had diabetes for a year?

Unknown Speaker 03:58 Well, it's not my birthday tomorrow. Oh, the anniversary February but yeah,

Scott Benner 04:03 well, this month ish. Whatever

Unknown Speaker 04:07 person cares. It doesn't matter.

Scott Benner 04:08 If you're making me curse.

Unknown Speaker 04:12 Have that effect?

Scott Benner 04:13 Do a lot of cursing when they're around you? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 04:17 I also just curse really bad. So I think people fall into it, but

Scott Benner 04:22 I find it makes them comfortable. Yeah. What's your favorite word?

Unknown Speaker 04:28 chagrin. Or my favorite curse word?

Scott Benner 04:31 grins. Your favorite word? Grin is

Unknown Speaker 04:33 my favorite word.

Scott Benner 04:34 How did that happen?

Unknown Speaker 04:35 Um, there's this YouTube artist. His name is Peter drawers. And my brother's name is Peter. So they were like my brother really liked him for a long time and I watched his videos and he just was really chill kind of like hippie dude. And he would use that word quite often and every time he said it, it just put a smile on my face.

Scott Benner 05:00 Oh, that's the same much to my chagrin.

Unknown Speaker 05:02 Yeah, along those lines.

Scott Benner 05:05 Yeah, we're just talking in small sound bites for the rest of this. So, I guess I did mean, what was your favorite curse word? Like Which one do you use most frequently?

Unknown Speaker 05:17 Um, probably the effort has to be right. Or, you know, I call everyone the B word all the time.

Scott Benner 05:26 I love how you said you love cursors. But you said the F word and the B word now instead of well,

Unknown Speaker 05:30 am I allowed to curse?

Scott Benner 05:31 I don't know. Just bleep it out. It's fine.

Unknown Speaker 05:34 Yeah, I don't I hate when I hate the beep. So you're gonna

Scott Benner 05:42 you're gonna avoid the beeps for them. That's very considered of, you know, so nice. What about the people who want the curses? And right now we're thinking, much to my chagrin, lived in curse the entire time?

Unknown Speaker 05:55 Well, that's that's a bummer for them. They'll have to live with it.

Scott Benner 05:59 Do we have to look up that phrase so people understand it?

Unknown Speaker 06:02 I mean, it's kind of like dismay. It's how I describe it to people who don't understand what that means. Much to my chagrin, it's like, much to my dismay,

Scott Benner 06:13 distress or embarrassment. And having failed or being humiliated. That's the noun champion favorite words. Yeah. Much to his chagrin wasn't invited. So wait, what did you say? How do you tell people?

Unknown Speaker 06:29 dismay?

Scott Benner 06:32 Yeah, I mean, all right.

Unknown Speaker 06:33 I mean, it's a more lighter version,

Scott Benner 06:38 I think embarrassment or distress. Yeah. And then as a verb you can say he was chagrined. When his friend poured. His friend poured scorn on Him who speaks Yes, por discord on him. Did I just click on the internet from the 19? Like 10s? Like what just happened? What am I? Is this is this a Netflix series where everybody's British? Apparently, please. All right. So you like chagrin? Or like chagrin, cursing you like to say you call people? Yes. Like, yo, what are you bitches doing?

Unknown Speaker 07:18 I'm not like not in a cool way.

Scott Benner 07:24 Like the angry way. Like

Unknown Speaker 07:28 more like when people do something I don't like I jokingly call them a bit.

Scott Benner 07:32 Like if I came up to your car in traffic and tried to wash your windshield like it was 1990 and be like, bitch get off like, Bitch Get away from me. Yeah, but you don't look at your friends and be like, Bitch, what are we doing? Different call your friends hookers?

Unknown Speaker 07:50 No, I can't

Scott Benner 07:55 What are you trying to make sure I have a good time. Thank you very much. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 07:58 Okay. They deserve it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 07:59 i i Sometimes I call my daughter and her friends Booker's. I'm like, wow. Like, what do you hook yourself?

Unknown Speaker 08:07 Yeah, that's a line. I would

Scott Benner 08:11 assume they know. I'm kidding.

Unknown Speaker 08:14 I hope so.

Scott Benner 08:15 I mean, they come back to the house. So I'm not nobody's paying them. So. I mean, they've been here their whole life. So okay. Alright, so you call your friends? Yeah. Are you? Are you jealous of the, like Irish and British type people who use that word as a friendly word?

Unknown Speaker 08:38 Yes. If it wasn't Gervais is is my hero.

Scott Benner 08:42 Yeah. Yeah. I agree. All right, facts. Why are you on this podcast? This is a year ago. But what made you want to do this? So

Unknown Speaker 08:52 I, the original reason I wrote is I had a conversation with my mom about diabetes. And I just decided that I had a perspective I thought someone might want to hear even if it was just one person. Because I come from a history of some very poor mental health. And so my diabetes diagnosis was like a very small thing in the grand scheme of my life.

Scott Benner 09:31 So your mental health stuff hasn't been around longer.

Unknown Speaker 09:37 Yeah, what was say? Since I was about like, 11 it started getting really bad. I had bad depression and anxiety started going to therapy. And it just got progressively worse through middle school and during In my eighth grade year, I, I attempted suicide and ended up in a institution for a while. Ended up on medication. Just a lot of rocky roads. Yeah. For the next until now.

Scott Benner 10:21 You have any brothers or sisters?

Unknown Speaker 10:23 I have an older brother.

Scott Benner 10:25 Are your parents together? Yes, they are just painting a picture. I don't actually care if they're together or not. I can just as easily ask you if you have a pet.

Unknown Speaker 10:34 Right? Yeah, I have a dog. Oh, 622 dogs. I have one in Colorado and one here. Long story.

Scott Benner 10:44 You don't like to let them live together?

Unknown Speaker 10:47 It's they would be fun. But yeah, I'm not taking the one dog out of his super happy environment.

Scott Benner 10:55 Okay. I'm not gonna argue. For context, I guess what is the what? Gosh, I don't understand any of this. You understand my contextually I'm, I'm at a loss here. So what? What creates a scenario where you think that taking your life is the is the way to go?

Unknown Speaker 11:18 Okay, yeah. So I have learned from listening to your podcast for a while that yeah, that you seem to be interested in mental health stuff. Um, it's just spending so long, honestly, believing that your life is worth nothing. That it just gets to a point that it's like, just a fact. And it's just when it's not a question of if you're going to but when I'm so getting to that point, you know, it does a lot to your mind. And like, getting out of it, I'd say is the same long, hard journey of, you know, you spend so long convincing yourself that your life like is worth living, that you find every obstacle after that is just so small in comparison.

Scott Benner 12:26 So because I'm sorry, because

Unknown Speaker 12:29 because it takes so much to convince yourself that like, it's worth continuing on.

Scott Benner 12:37 So does this just come over you in your recollection, like, is there just a day or a week or a month where everything started seeming darker than it did prior?

Unknown Speaker 12:50 It was definitely a progression. I think for a long time, I didn't even know I was depressed. Because I was just so focused on everyone else, I'm very empathetic. So all I cared about was, you know how everyone else was doing and didn't really pay attention until I took a test at my therapists office, there was like the depression scale thing. And was like a 90 or something. And she called my mom that night. And then the next night, I ended up in the hospital. So it was just kind of all happened at once. But at the same time, it was like pretty bad for a long time.

Scott Benner 13:33 Okay. Did did. Did you do other things? outward things before the attempt. Did you cut or? Yeah, try drugs or anything like that for

Unknown Speaker 13:43 a while? Never never done drugs? But yeah, had a history of self harm. Okay,

Scott Benner 13:51 that where does the relief come from that

Unknown Speaker 13:58 it's, have you ever had something just so horrible happen that you don't know how to, like what to do with yourself, and you just end up like crying or watching a show or whatever, pretty much. What self harm does for you is it gives you that outlet of it all goes into that. And then once you do it, you're you can kind of move on, and you don't have that overwhelming feeling of it's just too much to handle too much to deal with.

Scott Benner 14:34 Is it a is it a case of when your mind gets on a path that you can't pull it back off of it?

Unknown Speaker 14:43 I mean, it's an addiction. So, once you start, it just becomes the go to like for alcoholics that would be drinking but for people who self harm it would be self harming.

Scott Benner 14:57 So something happens in your life. Life or something is said or whatever happens, a trigger comes up, and you start moving into a negative space in your head. There's no ability to just say, Oh, well, this is bad. But it mean, this isn't everything. I'll I'll leave this here go back to my life instead, you sort of it's like getting pulled down in a black hole.

Unknown Speaker 15:18 Yeah. And I think it's a lot easier when you're, you know, a teenager, and it really does feel like your whole life, you know?

Scott Benner 15:27 Sure. Yeah. Were you having trouble like exterior trouble at home? Were you being like, harmed were people at school picking on you or anything like that?

Unknown Speaker 15:37 I had some issues with my brother. That were really tricky. He had a hard time when he was younger. And I think his way of coping it when, like, when he got older was kind of taking some of that out on me. And

Scott Benner 15:58 you kind of couldn't take it.

Unknown Speaker 16:00 Yeah, it was just a lot like when you know, you. If you're bullied at school, you can just go home. But if you're bullied at home, you have nowhere to go. Right. Okay. And so yeah.

Scott Benner 16:15 What's the age difference?

Unknown Speaker 16:17 He's two and a half years older than me. And weren't great. Now for for context. were amazing. Yeah, brothers.

Scott Benner 16:25 I wouldn't imagine you'd be on here saying it. If you were like, Yeah, still within the problem. So yeah, but could you? Can you imagine an 11 year old who could have taken your brother's crap? Were you a person for that to be in that situation? Or do you think it would have run most people over? I think

Unknown Speaker 16:48 it would have definitely hit most people. I mean, my friends would come over and see some of his stuff, and they would leave crying. And I'm like, see, you get to go home. I don't get to go. Alright, somewhere else. But yeah. I don't think it was like, I'm just a little weakling.

Scott Benner 17:10 No, I didn't mean to. I don't know, I know. Yeah. I was just wondering, were you on the, on the precipice of a break to begin with? And he, he came behind you and shoved you over? Was it really that?

Unknown Speaker 17:23 Oh, I think it was, I think it was a mix. For sure. It definitely wasn't all him. But I think not having a safe space at home was like, just made it that much worse.

Scott Benner 17:35 Gotcha. Would you I'm so sorry to ask you this. Would you consider your attempt like, like it would have worked? If somebody didn't stop you? Or were you looking for help?

Unknown Speaker 17:49 Um, I think I think for the most part, I was looking for hope, and I just didn't know what else to do. But if it continued in that direction, I honestly believe that I would not be here today.

Scott Benner 18:04 Wow. Okay, yeah. So what turns things around, I mean, obviously, this gets attention, then people are like, Oh, live has problems we weren't aware of, or we didn't understand, or we didn't understand the severity of it, then what happens after that, that helps you move in another direction.

Unknown Speaker 18:23 That's the hardest part for me is, is explaining to other people how they can get through it. Because it's a choice, it is a choice. And if you don't choose that you want better, you will never make it there. That's what I've learned from my years of dealing with this. But I think for me, I spent so long, just really wanting to get to what I had hoped my life would be. And I just did, I didn't want to give up on it. I just didn't believe it would ever be possible. And through seeing other people make it out of their stuff, and I did so much therapy, like nine hours a week at one point. But when you hear people drill into you enough times like that, it's you need to make choices to get your life where you want it to be. I just decided to give it a try. Because when you're that depressed and anomic despair, it's really like you feel like you've done everything, and nothing has worked. But when you have so many people telling you that you haven't tried everything, like you feel kind of silly. And you can either choose not to go down that route and just convince yourself you've done everything or you can actually try every single thing that people give to you and you My mom is is my hero, she came from a really hard background. And her whole thing is like she is the most determined person I've ever met. And so I think a lot of that I can kind of take from my mom and be like, I just didn't you know, I didn't want to quit. And this time with all the help that I had, I was able to reach small goals and slowly progress forward. And you just keep doing that until one day you look around, and you're like, that life that I wanted to have. And I just felt like I couldn't I'm living it.

Scott Benner 20:46 When something goes poorly now for you, or someone is impacting you in a in a detrimental Larry, are you able to reframe it? Do you walk away from it? How do you stop that that process?

Unknown Speaker 21:01 Yeah, um, I would say, at this point, it's impossible for me to get back to as low as I was, with all the knowledge that I have. I, I literally can't go there again. I use every skill that I have ingrained in myself that now it's just habit. You know, I cry, I take a break. I talked to someone, I watch a show for a week long. You know, like, whatever it is I need to get through. I know there is a healthy option. It's amazing. Yeah. And I'm very proud of myself. I can definitely say I earned it.

Scott Benner 21:47 Okay. There was a weird noise behind you just now. But I think it's I think it's gone. Did you did an electronic bug fly pasture had been in here?

Unknown Speaker 21:56 I have a lot of bracelets that might be I don't think it

Scott Benner 21:59 was that. Okay. Well, I mean, it definitely sounds like you. You worked incredibly hard to be happy. Yeah. It's funny, as you're discussing this, I almost almost stopped myself from saying this. But as you're describing, the process you went through, I thought is so similar to getting diabetes and deciding to live with it better?

Unknown Speaker 22:26 That's exactly yeah, I won. When I got diabetes. I, a lot of it was just laughing about it to my mom, because I was like, this is so, so small compared to what I've already gone through. It's just like a lesser version to me. I know not to everyone. diabetes is no small thing. But like, in my life experiences, it's not the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And it's just, you know, you either get to choose to get to a point where your habit is having a healthy blood sugar. Or you can fight it and struggle with it for a long time until maybe you realize there's a better way to do it or I need to seek help to have better blood sugar's you know, it's just yeah, how much you put into it, you get out

Scott Benner 23:21 where you got me was about the, the idea of not knowing what to do. But there being something and being able to talk to another person, have them say to you look, you might not know the next step, but here are five things you could try and then be willing to try those things. Yeah, that part kind of really spoke to me.

Unknown Speaker 23:41 And I feel like it's so it's where it's hard with diabetes is like, there are so many things you can try. And it might take so long for you to find the things that work. Because there's so many variables, but the benefit of that is there's always more to trial.

Scott Benner 23:59 Yeah. And it's, I mean, it's why I serve this, the some of the series forward the way I do, because I don't want you to have to, like, some of the things are just going to take repetition and experience and stuff like that. But someone can tell you that, you know, the fat in your french fries makes your blood sugar high, 90 minutes, you know that that's okay, if somebody tells you that having to eat yeah, having to eat french fries 27 times before you go, you know what, I'm seeing a pattern here. Yeah. And not to think that the pattern is not impactful to you know, like, it's it's important and even I mean, again, it's what you were sort of talking about, like there's, there's a way to live, where you don't feel like that. And just because you feel like that now doesn't mean you can't impact it and change it until Yeah, I feel

Unknown Speaker 24:51 like a huge part of what really kind of screws people over is what they get told at diagnosis is so Oh, impactful. And I definitely lucked out. Um, I got set up for success. I mean, I can tell you a little bit about what happened. I was feeling terrible for months, super tired. But I just thought I was depressed. And I have I have thyroid in the family, thyroid issues, all the way down my mom's side hypothyroidism. So I knew I had hypothyroidism actually, when I got hospitalized from the mental health stuff because they tested it and they were like, this might be contributing to your depression. So I started taking thyroid medication way back when

Scott Benner 25:56 I asked Chet GPT to write me an ad for the Omni pod five. And it tells me even puts in where I'm supposed to put music this is interesting. Here's what I'm supposed to say. This episode is brought to you by Omni pod makers of the Omni pod five insulin pump. If you're living with diabetes, managing your insulin levels is a crucial part of your daily routine. That's why Omni pod has designed the Omni pod five, a device that's transforming the way people with diabetes live their lives. But this isn't bad. I'm sorry. Back to the deep voice. The Omni pod five is a tubeless wearable insulin pump that adapts to your lifestyle. It's discreet, waterproof, and designed for ultimate comfort. The state of the art pump automatically adjusts insulin delivery based on your glucose levels and trends. taking the guesswork out of diabetes management once it's good, it should say we used with a Dexcom G six, we've oh my gosh, safety is always a priority. But it's time to experience the freedom and flexibility that comes with the Omni pod five insulin pump, visit Omni pod.com forward slash juice box to learn more and take the first step towards a better life with diabetes. That's Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, make the switch dummy pod five and discover the difference for yourself. That's amazing. The machines are taking over people. That's pretty cool, huh? Anyway, Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, check out the only pod five if you want that algorithm with the Dexcom G six. Or if you want the on the pod dash and you're not looking for the algorithm, you can get started with that as well. At my link, we'll use the links, you're supporting the show. Those links are available at juicebox podcast.com by typing them into a browser or in the show notes of the podcast player you're listening to now. Now let me say just write me an ad for athletic greens. Hold on a second. I might be onto something there.

Unknown Speaker 27:56 So I just thought my thyroid was off. Because I was feeling so tight. You know, I know the thyroid symptoms. Yeah. And so I went my first year at college, in Portland. I was living in a dorm and I went home for winter break and went to the doctor and you know, she sent me home. She's like your thyroids. Fine. I was like, Okay, it's just in my head. I'm crazy. Went back to college. And it started getting worse. And I, you know, would call my mom and I'm like, I don't feel good. And she's like, go to the clinic. And I'm like, I don't want to say I never went, um, I'm stubborn. And I just I honestly thought in my head, that it was something with my mental health, and they weren't going to be able to help me and I needed to figure it out for myself. Yeah. So I was just kind of taking it as it came. But at one point I wasn't going to class anymore. And the most I could do in a day was go down from my dorm to the little Stop and Shop and get some food and go back up. And then I had to sleep for the rest of the 24 hours. Like that is the most I could do in a day. I was drinking more than I ever thought I could and in my head. I was like Oh look at me. I'm hydrating. Silly live silly. A silly live

Scott Benner 29:31 look terrific. My skin's gonna be clear and

Unknown Speaker 29:34 yeah, I was like, oh, man, I'm feeling I'm so healthy drinking all this water.

Scott Benner 29:39 I'm on the health train now baby. I can't get the inside of my head looking right but I'm gonna get the outside.

Unknown Speaker 29:47 And then today last year, well and this year's, it was my roommates birthday. She's, I love my roommate. She was amazing. Um, so I was you know, being In the awesome person I am wanted to celebrate with her and get her gift and all this stuff and I was struggling so hard to wrap her gift, and I was gonna make her cake and I fell asleep, too tired. So we went to her boyfriend's dorm and everyone was partying and having cake and I could barely walk. I was sitting on the couch falling asleep, and everyone's like, louver you can I was like, I'm fine. I just need a nap, like, leave me alone. Because I really didn't want to like take away from her birthday. So I left early. It was like half a block walk to my dorm. So I was walking so slow in heels fallen over. I was like, everyone's gonna think I'm drunk. But I'm not. I couldn't have any of the cake because I was just feeling ill. And I finally get back to my dorm. And I'm laying in the bed with, you know, my shoes on and everything. And I'm like, alright, I'll change my shoes and call 911. That's literally what went through my head is I'll call the ambulance. So I'll change my shoes in just a second. But I fell asleep because that was the kaput. So I wake up the next morning, and I call my mom and I'm like, he was gonna call the ambulance last night. But like, I'm too tired. I just don't think that'll work. And she's like, she, you know, obviously is like, what the heck are you talking about? Like she did not know it had gotten to that point. Yeah. And like what the heck was going on? So she called my roommate who was still over at her boyfriend's was like you need to bring live to the hospital.

Scott Benner 31:56 She's like, it's my birthday.

Unknown Speaker 31:59 And the whole time I'm like, this is such an overreaction, whatever. So I have my mom right now all the symptoms I'm having. So I can show the people so I don't have to talk because I can barely get a sentence out. And so we get to the hospital, and COVID still pretty prevalent, of course. And so the hospital is busy. And I ended up waiting in there for five hours. And the whole time I'm on the phone with my mom. And all I remember from that is being so thirsty in the waiting room. And I'm on the phone with her and I'm talking her about if I should go to a vending machine and get a water or not. Because I don't think I have enough energy to make it to the vending machine. Yeah. And like that was my idea of what five hours was was just being so thirsty. That's all I could think about.

Scott Benner 33:04 But you now have energy to do anything about it.

Unknown Speaker 33:06 Yeah. And I'm just sitting there being miserable and really wanting juice, I really want to juice

Scott Benner 33:13 when were they able to diagnose you in the emergency room.

Unknown Speaker 33:17 So when they triaged me, I was about halfway through the five hours. So I don't really know if I don't think they did. Otherwise, they probably would have brought me back. But once they finally did, it was very immediate. They're like, I think, you know, you're diabetic. Which I was in absolute denial about because as one of the many people who are so ignorant I I was like, there's only one kind of diabetes and I don't have that. So yeah, I can't be diabetes.

Scott Benner 33:59 Tired thing? I could be depressed. I could be like, did you have depression in college at that point? Or had you managed yourself? Like, how do you think of it after your? You know what I mean? Like after your attempts and your move forward? Is there a time where you see yourself as living not as a depressed person in your town?

Unknown Speaker 34:16 I always have depression, it's just varying degrees. Okay. And I get worse, kind of in the holidays. So I figured, you know, it's still kind of the holidays, right? Maybe I'm just big sad. Maybe I just don't like Portland. Which I didn't. But I genuinely I had convinced myself that I was just sad and depressed. Because I that felt like the only option.

Scott Benner 34:44 Had you ever felt like that prior? I mean, looking back, I guess no, but you didn't you couldn't discern it at the time, right.

Unknown Speaker 34:53 I think it was mostly just the fact that my brain couldn't function but it was like, you can't it just went with the simple was dancer because it was like, I don't have enough energy to go anywhere else.

Scott Benner 35:04 So similarly do if your brain said to you look, if we could find a Phillips head screwdriver right now this would all go away and you'd sit the chair. Yeah, I can't do that. Uh huh. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 35:13 exactly. And I was like, it'll, my thought was it will pass like, it will get better. I just need to wait it out. Which obviously, just shooting myself in the foot. But Hindsight is 2020.

Scott Benner 35:27 Well, so far what I've learned is you can't trust kids at a party to college. Because a person your age who's at a party is like I have to nappy now. Like how Yeah, how did someone not go? Hey, Liv might not be okay.

Unknown Speaker 35:41 Because I think it was a thing of like, kind of everyone knew me is like, I am not a huge partier. Like I'll have fun sometimes, but I'm not by no means am I the party girl. Okay. So it wasn't weird for me to let go just chill on my own. And at the time, most of the friends I had made met me when I assume I was already starting like the pre diabetes thing. So they already knew me is like a tired person. I like to nap. I like water. So really the only people who like new new that that might not be like, live were my roommate. And she was checking in on me. But I made it pretty clear to her. I didn't

Scott Benner 36:32 want everyone else. And everyone else already saw you as a sleepy camel.

Unknown Speaker 36:37 Yeah, that's just who I am.

Scott Benner 36:40 She's full of water and taken up. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 36:43 maybe, you know, maybe I was just sick because they hadn't seen me in a week. You know, they were like, Oh, she's just getting over something. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 36:49 So now you're away College? Are you local college? I am in a different state. Your mom come.

Unknown Speaker 36:58 So on the phone in the waiting room for the five hours, my mom's packing a bag. And I'm like, you don't need to fly out. This is ridiculous. You know, whatever. And she's like, No, I'm gonna fly out. I'm packing a bag right now. And I'm like, okay, whatever. I'm fine. Um, but she, my dad was amazing, and was able to get her out that next morning. So, by the time I was allowed to see people, she was there. And that was a lifesaver.

Scott Benner 37:35 Do you feel when you're given the Diag. So you you were given the diagnosis on your own? You were by herself

Unknown Speaker 37:41 while she was at an airport and with her on the phone. Okay. But But yes, I was

Scott Benner 37:48 physically alone, physically alone. And do you have to use the tools you learned in therapy in that moment? Not at all. You're just so beat up? I

Unknown Speaker 37:58 was so out of it. I was like, okay, whatever. That's fine. I don't even know what that means. But sure, I'll take it.

Scott Benner 38:07 Whatever, is this gonna help?

Unknown Speaker 38:09 Because yeah, I was pretty much like, I'm dying. So whatever you need to say, that's cool.

Scott Benner 38:18 Can I ask you when you look back? I know that. I know that what you talked about earlier happened when you were much younger. But when you see yourself as in a scenario in a hospital where you could have died. Do you see your life as valuable then? And like, oh, no, I

Unknown Speaker 38:35 Oh, absolutely. I do

Scott Benner 38:37 not want this to happen.

Unknown Speaker 38:38 Absolutely. Yeah. Ever. pretty much ever since that turn in my mind when I was much

Scott Benner 38:46 younger, just haven't felt that way

Unknown Speaker 38:48 is anything to stay alive. Yeah. Because that's kind of what you have to do you. You have to convince yourself to drink water because your body's worth keeping alive. And so at that point, it's like, hell yeah, I want to be alive. Even though my life isn't great right now, because I'm sleeping all the time.

Scott Benner 39:14 Really tired.

Unknown Speaker 39:16 So worth living, you know, and like, so many people, you know,

Scott Benner 39:21 ya know, it's it's just interesting to hear somebody talk about being on two different sides of that spectrum in the same 10 year period.

Unknown Speaker 39:28 For sure. Yeah, it's definitely night and day. I'm sure if it had happened. I told my mom this a lot and like, Thank God, I was not diagnosed as a teenager. I I don't know what would have happened, but so I think it would have been a thing of like, I'm fighting the diabetes, and that's my nightmare. I'm like, I don't want to fight with it. I just, I just want to coexist and move on.

Scott Benner 39:58 Can I tell you a secret Yeah. Okay. Do you wonder how you got on the podcast so quickly?

Unknown Speaker 40:06 I do i Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:08 Because the schedule is like I saw somebody for

Unknown Speaker 40:12 thought you meant January 2024. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 40:15 here's what happened. It's January 2023. Right now, and that I don't have a podcast recording slot till November, like I am I actually I looked at my calendar this morning, and it made me I was upset. I was like, Oh, my God, I'm, I'm going to die trying to make this podcast for sure. So, but you mentioned the depression and other things in your note. And earlier, I forget exactly what it was been. I'll find out November, early November. Earlier November, I got an email from a person I don't know. And this gentleman was telling me that his daughter passed away. And she wanted any donations that were made in her memory to go to me. Wow. And I couldn't wrap my head around what he was saying. Yeah, you know, and I was like, I don't understand like, like, how would that be? Get, you know, like, so he left his phone number? And I said, Can I just call you? And we spoke on the phone. And he said, you know, your podcast means a lot to my daughter. And then he stopped himself. And he said, meant a lot. And then he said, I'm sorry, she just passed away today. Oh, my God. And I was like, What is like, you don't mean? Like, I'm like, what? I'm trying to put all the pieces together in my head on like, a guy emailed me today, to ask how to make donations to the podcast in memory of his daughter, who has only been gone for a few hours. Like why none of this is adding up. Like none of it made any sense to me. So I spoke to him for a minute now, I realized I'm speaking with somebody who's, like, lost a person, their daughter in this day, you know, and I'm piecing it together, and I get off the phone. And I say to my wife, I think this man's daughter committed suicide. Because why would he know about she wasn't sick? I like it. I'm like, picking through what he said and everything. And then it occurred to me. I'm in someone suicide note. Yeah. And I, I was like, Oh, God, like, I don't have a way to know what to do about that. You know, and so yeah, I got your note. And I was like, I'm not ended up in somebody else's suicide note, this girl is coming on right now and telling her story, because the person I'm talking about Jenna, she was on my schedule.

Unknown Speaker 42:56 Yeah, I heard I heard about that.

Scott Benner 42:59 I just didn't know I swear to you, I got your note. And I was like, we can talk right now. I was like, I'm not getting another call like this in my lifetime. I was like, it was like, I don't like be, you know what I mean? It's

Unknown Speaker 43:10 too much like I honestly. I, it is too much. About a month after I was out of the hospital, from my attempt.

Unknown Speaker 43:27 My lifelong childhood friend, her brother committed suicide, who lived down the street. And my mom being unable to deal with my stuff, obviously, because it's your kid. Seeing that happen, like it's hard to have words for that. But when you have people in your life, even just by a small relation, take their lives. It's it's too big for words. Kind of what that means and how that feels. No,

Scott Benner 44:15 I don't even know. I mean, obviously, I don't even know how he was functioning. And then and then the next day, I'm sitting at my desk working and I'm really, like, I was stunned. Like, I wasn't okay for a couple of days. Right. And it's not like, it's not like she said, You know, I'm doing this because of Scott. Like she was saying the, you know, yeah, she was saying that. I made that the podcasts had made like, a lot of time in her life, very happy and easier and everything. She had a lot of different medical issues. And, but I still like I'm like, I can't take money from this. Like I first of all, not a charity. You know, that's the first thing and secondly, if I took the money, all I would do is like I don't buy microphones with it and stuff like that. I'm like, I'm not I don't write this case. So I was thinking about where do I direct him? Because how do I honor what she wanted. But right, because I'm saying no to it, like she didn't care, like she wanted to go to me. And I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't accept that. It's so I eventually gave the family diabetes Sisters, we are diabetes and touched by type one is valuable places to make donations to.

Unknown Speaker 45:35 But I think it's more of a thing of like, when you're that, in that kind of headspace, the things that bring you joy, are very few and far between. And the people who may represent those things are kind of heroes to you in a way that they'll never know, like, certain singers, you know, you might feel such a deep connection with and they might never know about you. And so I feel like I am in no place to put words in her mouth. But I think that you for a lot of people are just someone who's on their side, when they don't really have anybody, because a lot of people don't tell their friends about type one. And they might not have a community. And so when you are on here talking to all these type ones, all these people who are experiencing similar things to them. And they listen to you like it's a connection that they really need, that they don't have anywhere else.

Scott Benner 46:56 I just wish I could have. I wish she could have come on and told me that, you know, and we we had had a scheduled time that I think if I'm remembering, right, she backed out of and then we I didn't hear from her for a while. And then, you know, I heard from her again, and we rescheduled again, I think part of that was part of some of the things she was struggling with as well. But but the next day, as I was quite literally sitting here, just the more than a little stunned trying to figure out what to do. As far as her request, my phone rang. And it was the number I didn't recognize. It picked it up. And there's a woman crying on the phone. Like she didn't even say hello. She was just crying. And she was doing dishes. And I could hear a woman crying, doing dishes, who was not saying hello to me, but who had called me. And I was like, hello, hello. And then I realized eventually, I'm now talking to this girl's mother, who was just blindly reaching out to me trying to figure out like the days of her daughter's life leading up to this. Yeah. And she said that it wasn't a surprise that she had struggled for a very long time. But I told her I'm like, I have some correspondence that I've done with your daughter over the years, I can find it. And she was just so grateful. She's like, would you share that with me? And I was like, Yeah, sure. So I sent it to her. And she said, I would maybe like to come on the podcast one day and talk about her. And I said, Yeah, that's fine. I said it at any time that you think is appropriate. Would you reach out to me? And we'll we'll figure it out. And she said, I don't think I'm going to remember today. Can you email me? And we talked a little longer and got off the phone. But yeah, it was just I don't know what I was drawn into it suddenly. I didn't understand my place in it. And yet I seem to have a larger place in it than me then I would have imagined but it's just anyway, that's a very sad way of telling you that's why you got on the podcast so quickly because I just I didn't know your I don't know who you are. And like, like, I looked back at her correspondence with me. And nothing I read there told me that this was going to end up being an eventuality.

Unknown Speaker 49:39 See I've found I've been told and I have found that in my life, especially. People have told me that I'm very good at hiding when I am very bad. And I think you just get so used to it. You become a professional at seeming like everything is fine. Because you can't tell just everybody everything that's happening with you. And because it's so much you have to pretend in such a big way that you're okay. That you just get so used to it. And you're just so good at it that you eventually forget to tell people when you're having a hard time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:27 That's such a scary thought, as a parent or somebody who, anybody who cares about somebody, because I imagine that that's not just true for this big topic. I bet you it's true for everything. Yeah, you know?

Unknown Speaker 50:42 It's yeah,

Scott Benner 50:44 you just wonder, like, you're looking people in the face. And they're saying something, and, you know, you would do anything for them. But you don't know what anything is, you don't know what it is they need, and they're not going to tell you what they need. And for most things in life, people are going to get through it. Okay. Yeah. But

Unknown Speaker 51:00 I don't think my, my mom had kind of one of those hard realizations when I was in IOP, it's intensive outpatient, it's nine hours a week. And it's a group where you go with other, you know, kids, like adolescents that were in the hospital for whatever their reason was typically the same as mine. And the parents would come to some of it to learn and, you know, experience and at one point, my mom left with me, and she goes, some of the kids in that room aren't going to make it. And I was like, I know. And it's just so hard, because you're sitting next to these kids and their parents, and a lot of them, you know, seem like they are trying to get better. And some of them don't. They seem like they're done. And I think that's kind of when she realized that like, what helped her kind of get to the point of knowing as a fact, like, if that person doesn't want to be here anymore, they won't be, they'll find a way. And that's really hard. I can't even I can't even fathom as a parent, because that's your kid, your loved one, your friend, your whatever. And like, if they've made that choice, like you can't, as much as you feel like you want should have done more, or could have done more anything. You can't it's their, it's their decision. I can say that because I've been there. It was no one's choice but my own. I wouldn't blame anyone for what I did other than myself. And

Scott Benner 52:57 boy, you know, the irony, of course, is that it's, it's the finality of the action. That makes it what it is because what you just described, you know, I have a child, they're on a path, they're going to do what they're going to do, like, in almost any other part of life, that's fine. Yeah, you don't I mean, it becomes not fine when it's you being alive anymore. At the end of it. Are you being a heroin addict at the end of it? Or, you know, like as a reversible, yeah, just something that gets to the point where you're like, wow, I've crossed the line, that there's no coming back from. And other than that, it's actually a fine way to let people live. It's growing up so bizarre, you know? Yeah. So. So when that's the case? How are you supposed to know as the person on the outside that this isn't just a thing that somebody needs to go through? You know what I mean? Like, how do you know when to even when you can see it? How do you know when to involve yourself? How do you know when to step back? How do you I'll tell you right now having children is a huge mistake. I'm just going to it you're you're just attached to a person that you care about more than anything else. And everything they do is beyond your control. And you get ever plan on doing you get confused in the beginning when they're little thinking you have some like, you hold some sway over them.

Unknown Speaker 54:23 Right? It's such a trick. Yeah, it's

Scott Benner 54:25 real. They just need your credit card. That's it. And your car. That was hard

Unknown Speaker 54:30 for my mom when I got diagnosed, right because I'm 21 Well, I was 20 at the time, but like I've moved out, I'm going to college. I'm you know, supporting myself as an adult. I make myself food. I've gone through so much water. Yeah, I'm very mature for my age. Like she was ready to watch me fly away. But then she gets dragged back down into this. You need to watch her blood sugar. 24/7 She could go into a coma at night, make sure you know what she's eating. And like, the people at the hospital, there were two groups, there was the group that was like, we're gonna deal with this, how we deal with anyone who gets diagnosed, which is clearly they were used to kids. So they were like, the parent needs to be the hawk, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then there was Vivian, my diabetes educator, my hero, she had type one. She came in there, she calmed my mom down, which is a feat. I can't express but she gave her hope that like, My life wasn't going to be completely different. And she was like, trying to give me more independence, you know, like talking about insulin to carb ratios, which the other doctors were like, No, we're doing meal based Bolus. But Vivian was like, I have type one, I live with it, you know, it's not as big a deal as they're making it. You know, whatever.

Scott Benner 56:08 Gave you a little hope, or a little hope,

Unknown Speaker 56:10 a little? For me. Definitely a sense, because I'm very independent, like, horribly, so

Scott Benner 56:20 no, but I would imagine you've Yeah, your little Bective is different. I mean, you gave it to yourself, almost. But your perspective is different than those around you at your age.

Unknown Speaker 56:31 Yeah, and give like a little more control back to me, which was really nice. But you know, my mom's sitting there, like, I've just let you go. But now I'm supposed to be like, This person.

Scott Benner 56:44 Oh, are you breaking a law? What's going on?

Unknown Speaker 56:47 I live in Seattle. So you know, stuff happens.

Scott Benner 56:53 Like, hippies take over a block?

Unknown Speaker 56:55 Yes. But now she's in this position where she doesn't know how involved to be. Yeah, again, she's already done this with the depression. And she's had to find her place. But now this is different, because this is medical. And this is there are more clear roles, but there also aren't, and we just don't know where we fit into the whole thing. And after diagnosis, I decided I didn't want to do college that quarter, obviously. Um, because I needed to, you know, readjust and figure it out. And so we decided to move all my stuff back home. So we road tripped. from Seattle to Colorado, two days after I got out of the hospital. That was very interesting. They had me on 64 units of Lantis. Which,

Scott Benner 57:51 hey, wait a minute, I know what you look like. That seems like a lot.

Unknown Speaker 57:57 If I took that now, I would probably die. They were like, Oh, you'll be fine. Just take this. And you know, you'll meet with your person in Colorado. And I was like, oh, that sounds great. It was not great. I wasn't great at all. The first low blood sugar I ever had, which I remember because you know, I'm 20 diagnosed a year ago, was in the car. In the first 20 minutes of our drive.

Scott Benner 58:28 Everything's gonna be fine. Here we are. I'm sweating.

Unknown Speaker 58:31 She wouldn't let me drive course. I'm worried about me. She's like, you know, you put your blood sugar up on the dash. So we can see it the whole time. And I'm like, that sounds good. And you know, I'm starting to get a little dizzy. And I'm like, this is weird. And she pulls the car over, gets the whole box of Capri Sun, you know, we're down in juices. And for the rest of my, I think it was two or three weeks. No, I must have been at least a month. I was having at least 10 juices a day, at least.

Scott Benner 59:09 Well, yeah, because that's way too much insulin for you. But you

Unknown Speaker 59:13 know, what's funny is I found your podcast two days after I got out of the hospital because that's just me trying to get all my resources, right, as I've learned, and yours is obviously the most popular type one podcast and I was like, alright, this dude, student sounds chill. And I'm listening to your podcast and I'm like, Mom, I just gotta take more insulin for my meals like this is this is how you do it. You know, you you beat that blood sugar down. Not knowing the whole thing of like you're taking at least four times more basil than you should

Scott Benner 59:48 already Yeah, already. So

Unknown Speaker 59:50 you know, we're driving back and I'm trying to like start being a diabetes ninja or whatever. Am I blood sugars? Like, oh no, you don't. You get juices your new life. So I thought that that was just like my lifestyle for a while until I went in and they were like, you can change this. We're going to change it now. A lot and I was like, Oh, cool. Yeah. Oh, a lot

Scott Benner 1:00:21 like what do you weigh? 120 pounds? I don't know how tall you just get 30 Who cares? I'm 590 Okay, so you're more like 140 ish in that space?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:34 No, I'm like Viking sighs Oh, you're

Scott Benner 1:00:36 okay. But still forget it. Still take a lot less. Yeah, yeah, let me say this. If you weighed 200 pounds, I don't think you would use 64 units of in.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:46 Let's just say on. I'm on the five Omnipod five, right? I my total daily insulin is usually around 60 for you.

Scott Benner 1:00:56 With your bait your Bolus. Oh, I'm just saying like, I'm sorry, I don't care how much you weigh. I'm just saying like, it's way off. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:05 it was like, I mean, but for being in DK, obviously, like, I get it for the first bit, you need to take more. But I'm like they sent us knowing we were driving on that much without telling us if she's going live a lot, don't do as much late. It's like they didn't tell us we could do that. Sure. So it was, you know, a headache. But with everything else, I would say I was set up for success. They gave us packets. I had like, four days of training with Vivian and she was amazing. And I learned you know all the things. And then, because I found your podcast so soon, I didn't have to sit in that space of like, not knowing what the possibilities were, you know, like, do I have to be this strict? Do I have to whatever, I don't have to do anything. I can do it. However I want to do it as long as I don't die. So. And then going to Colorado, I'm sure you've heard of the Barbara Davis Center. And he interviewed someone from there. Sure. My endo works there. He's a type one. And he is very, very strict. Like one Lifesaver brings my blood sugar up 10 points in 20 minutes strict. And I'm like, that doesn't work for me. I you know, I've lived my life with a fully functioning pancreas for 20 years. So the anticipating when I'm going to eat thing is not something I'm familiar with. It changes every day. What I Eat changes every day. I'm I'm not a habitual. This is what I'm eating person. So figuring out that I could do it however I wanted and make it work was probably my biggest takeaway initially from your podcast, I'm glad effects I would say from that. Moving forward is I just love hearing you know, everybody doing their own different thing.

Scott Benner 1:03:24 Yeah, it. Can you give some context to that for me, like what does it do for you to hear other people just like being regular people?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:35 I think it's, you know, playing into my joy of being independent. And just hearing. I think the first episode My mom and I listened to together in the car. It was about this young gymnast and her mom would come in and like fingerprick her during the night. And she was just starting to get older and maybe go out of town a little bit. And my mom's like, Oh my God, how does she do it? You know, when she's not there. And just all this confusion and the more and more we listen to that episode and others we just learned like you just figure out how to adapt. And hearing how on your podcast different people have learned that is really cool, because everyone adapts differently. So you know, I heard the episode with like the young, sarcastic Russian girl and how her parents just ordered the ex comes online, which I'm like, That's wild. But that's adapting, you figure out how to make things work for you. And the ways that everyone does it differently are just really cool to me. They give me ideas or they just are fascinating. You know, it's kind of like hearing about people who travel the world for a living. It's something that I don't think I could do but it's still really cool to hear about it and learn about it.

Scott Benner 1:05:03 And another girl from Russia moved to America. She really, she's like, much she's much older now. I'm gonna have to have her back on at some point. That's so cool. She was really great, wasn't she?

Unknown Speaker 1:05:15 Yeah, just like, you've had some amazing people on the podcast. My mom kept joking for like weeks that I'd been after dark episode.

Scott Benner 1:05:24 Well, I think you have to be, I was like, come on,

Unknown Speaker 1:05:27 like, mustard is not that rough. Then the more I thought about it, I was like, yeah, if I mentioned it at all, it's pretty much instantly. It's

Scott Benner 1:05:36 tough because I so I don't. I don't personally think of them that way. Yeah, the after dark things I would, I wouldn't give them a distinction or just is it kid friendly? It just makes it like, hey, maybe look up and realize that someone's gonna say, heroin or something during this.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:56 You want your six year old listening to this? Yeah. Like,

Scott Benner 1:05:59 I put up one this week. With a guy. It's such a sweet story. And this guy, Perry, his brother was diagnosed when his brother was like, eight months old, his brother passes away, you know, very young. And it's a major impact on his life, obviously. And then, decade or more later, Perry's diagnosed, but Perry's lack a guy who sold drugs did drugs, you know, was in trouble with the law, you know, told me he was clean. Now, when I pushed him a little longer. He's like, Well, I'm California server. And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, we're going along. And he was just it was, it was really a story about, about how he missed his brother. Yeah, you know, and, but the details of it are, you know, what they were, and his perspective was, for sure, yeah. And his perspective was different. Like, when I at the end of the podcast, I asked him something about, like, if he was afraid of a certain drug, and he's like, Nah, they're just making a big deal out of it. And the media is like, Oh, okay. Okay. Fentanyl is not bad. Nah, not as bad as they make it sound. And I'm like, I'm like, wow, different perspective. You know, what I mean? Like, literally lift a completely different life than I'm aware of. But but a sweet guy. And, and, and told her really touching open story. Yeah, I don't see why it has to be called after dark California. So we're, but it does, because some people would listen to that and be like, I would have skipped this if I would have known. You see, I kind of

Unknown Speaker 1:07:33 see it as like, I'm sitting in a room. And there's all sorts of people there. And I'm like, I would not want to tell this exact story. If there were young children, there are people who could get triggered,

Scott Benner 1:07:47 but you know, yeah, that's how I try to think of it. So but I don't

Unknown Speaker 1:07:51 like to myself, I don't think of my my own story. Is that until I really think about it. And I'm like, yeah, not everyone talks about suicide and self harm all the time late. It's just you.

Scott Benner 1:08:05 Do you feel good about what we talked about? Or do you feel like there's something unsaid?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:11 So pretty good.

Scott Benner 1:08:13 Are you worried now your mom's gonna listen and go see you are crap episode of this.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:19 My mom's gonna love anything I talked about you are her hero she has listened to. She got like one of those Spotify things. It's like, you've listened to so many hours of the Juicebox Podcast.

Scott Benner 1:08:33 Oh, those are great for my ego. Those come out in November. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:37 She listened. She listens way more than I do. She listens. Whenever she gets chance.

Scott Benner 1:08:44 Well, hello to your mom, then.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:46 She loves everything. She loves your perspective. She loves hearing all the stories. And I'm glad that she has an outlet to for this thing that happened to her kid. Because yeah. Not very open

Scott Benner 1:08:59 about my you don't talk about a lot of other.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:02 I talked about it. I just you know, I've got it. So I don't need to be like, Oh, my blood sugar's 103. Right now, what should I do?

Scott Benner 1:09:10 Arden is back at school. And she's such she hasn't been. She already goes back and forth when her hormones get walked around. She can't. She can't eat meat. Yeah, she came home. She takes this stuff called a VAs at all. That keeps her hormones kind of balanced. It's an over the counter thing. Yeah, I've heard this. And so she stopped taking it while she was home on a break because she was just like, lazy. And then she started taking it again. She's like, she's like I'm having weird reactions like like to foods again. And I said, Well, you probably have to just get back on this for you know, be steady and I'm sure you'll feel better. She's like so for now. I've been eating like a lot of salads and stuff. So her insulin sensitivity and I think our basil are a little too strong for her eating style at the moment. Right so she's been kind of fighting with Lowe's a little bit while we been fixing it.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:01 College is hard. Yeah, it'd be hard. Yeah, dorm life because you don't have a kitchen. Like I was eating crackers for half my meals when I went back and I failed that quarter anyways, so

Scott Benner 1:10:19 Well, last night she got low, lower overnight, and I sent her a text. And I said you're low. And she said, I know. And I said, I think you need to test because it was the first day of a CGM. And I was like, why don't you test and she's just said, Dad.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:35 That is so many. I heard Arden's episode and I was like, That is me, like four years ago to a tee. Just the most sarcastic, snarky. Amazing. Go get it? You got it. Person.

Scott Benner 1:10:53 Well, I sent her back a note that said Mom and I are worried. It's scary to be this far away when it says that you're this low. And she said, Dad, I'm aware.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:05 That was sent so many of those. Can I ask what your low alarm is for Arden?

Scott Benner 1:11:12 On my phone? It's 70.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:14 See, my mom's is 55.

Scott Benner 1:11:17 At Ardens I think is at 80. While she's at school. She's usually 70.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:23 Mine was 75. My mom's I just couldn't I could not. I was like, I promise you. I've got it. And if I don't, then yeah, I usually get down 55. And she'll call me. Yeah. Well, my boyfriend's on it.

Scott Benner 1:11:38 Well, silly. That's nice to you have another person and Arden pardonnez roommates who have Dexcom set at 55 for her. But they're also you know, they're lovely people, but they're different than the people who were at the party who were like, hey, live really tired. Oh, well, she was taking a nap. Show me all right. So there's still kids. You know what I mean? They don't understand the whole like depth of it.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:05 Yeah, but which numbers mean come on. Which numbers mean they're fine. Yeah, yeah. Hey,

Scott Benner 1:12:11 do you want to call this episode? too silly.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:17 I would love that.

Scott Benner 1:12:19 I wish I could. I'm sorry. Oh. Perfect. Yeah, I mean, I think people might I don't know. I think people would skip it. But maybe they'd be like, they just rushed to it. I'd have to put a lot of Asterix in the title. There just be a C and an ass I think maybe Yeah, yeah. But I wanted to do justice to your your way of, of cursing. Yeah, try calling your friends hooker. And just see what happens. Just be like, hey, what do you hook us up to today? Don't just breeze right past it and see how they react. You know? Like, I don't need to get punched. I'm also

Unknown Speaker 1:12:59 not using groups of people. So just be like

Scott Benner 1:13:06 I don't know. I think by the way, I think your your generation is pushing past the being really offended thing. I think it's I think it's the other way a little bit.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:19 I'm so tired

Scott Benner 1:13:20 of being upset about everything because somebody told you to be

Unknown Speaker 1:13:23 Yeah, I just I get it. Like there's a lot to fight for right now. But sometimes just gotta chill because life's short. And nothing matters. Yeah, we're so small.

Scott Benner 1:13:34 I'm telling you. I think it's going the other way. Long. You're having fun and staying healthy. You know? Yeah. Everything's good. Yeah, I agree. All right. Well, what is what are your goals here? Like you're I'm gonna let you go in a second. But what are you trying to do in the world? You what your lifetime what would you learn to learn to do in college?

Unknown Speaker 1:13:55 Nothing last year. Except that Portland is horrible. But I Sorry, sorry. That's a fact statement. Okay, it might have been cool one point but it went backwards. It's there's no one it's just an empty boarded up city with really horrible, horrible, terrible things happening. Yeah, I'm sorry. You didn't want to go there. But I'm in Seattle now. So it's all good. You can forget about that. Um, my goal is I'm trying to go into UX design. It's like user interface design. So computer science type thing.

Scott Benner 1:14:34 Is it going well? Do you understand it? Is that easy for you to pick up?

Unknown Speaker 1:14:38 Well, considering I'm technically only one quarter in because of getting diabetes? You don't really know. So far so good. Um, yeah, starting overs. Great. I'm feeling good about it. This this go around good. And I also do hope someday I can do some tattoos on people. So that's my real dream. But there's no good insurance in tattooing. Oh, no, I need good insurance.

Scott Benner 1:15:09 Are you? Are you good? Like, are you good at it?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:13 Well, I think I'm an okay artist, but a lot of people have my art on their body already. So maybe that's the way you that's gotta say something.

Scott Benner 1:15:26 I hope it's a part time job as you're learning the other stuff.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:29 Yeah. At some point, I just gotta get that insurance first. You know, that's my main goal.

Scott Benner 1:15:36 It's funny, I, there'll be an episode that goes up in a week or two, with Stephen, who's just an older gentleman who's just brilliant about diabetes. And he talked about how when he was younger, that was the everybody he knew who had diabetes, it was their only focus was to get a job with insurance. That's pretty much what they were worried about.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:58 So I'm, I'm definitely yeah, in that

Scott Benner 1:16:01 headspace. It's Listen, we tell our da all the time. Like you can do whatever you want, as long as it has insurance.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:08 That's true fast. Yeah. Well, you want to hear my one diabetes genius thing that I have figured out. Yeah. It might not be accurate, but it's how I think about it. Go ahead. So say you have you know, a piece of toast that you decide not to Bolus for because you know, you're stubborn and lazy. When your blood sugar gets high, and you're sitting there and you're like, Oh, I'll do a correction. That's, that's wrong. You don't want to do that. You want to Bolus for the bread plus the correction. Because you still ate that many carbs, right? But now your blood sugar's high and sticky. So you need both the amount of bread plus the correction to bring you back down

Scott Benner 1:16:53 to get low after you do that, because the timing gets messed up, or no.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:58 I didn't on MDI. But now on the five since it like auto corrects it definitely will bring you low. Yeah, because you're going up because it's already dosing, you know. So

Scott Benner 1:17:07 can you look at what Omnipod five is put in already and then do a hybrid version

Unknown Speaker 1:17:13 apparent, but it does it every, you know, like, five minutes or whatever, so I can't anticipate what it's going to do. Over that time. So now, I mean, I don't really go pi. Too often. I don't go above 200.

Scott Benner 1:17:27 Yeah, like, is that about where you think of high?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:31 No, I think of high over one. 150.

Scott Benner 1:17:34 Okay. 200 right bike for you.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:38 To hundreds. Like if you're above 200 You got to you got to strap in because that's not fun. I get really tired. I go and take a nap. Every time I go high. I get so sleepy. And I'm like, oh, it's decay all over again.

Scott Benner 1:17:56 I remember be the sleepy well. What am i You have to help me a little bit what do I name this episode? Because it's gonna be after dark like can I call it sleepy camel? No. Oh, look at you. Now your egos in play. You're like no, I don't want that. Because I can't call it like, like, what do you want? Like, you know what I mean? Like, formally suicidal is not going to be good. So we've decided to silly won't make it past the people at Apple podcasts. So what do

Unknown Speaker 1:18:29 we do now? Sad but not about diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:18:33 But you're not good at the title thing at all. It's too long. Neither are you. Great at it.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:41 Yeah, yeah. All right. I never know what the episodes about though. You're just like this is a weird name. And then you're like, This person has diabetes and like that tells me literally nothing but I'm gonna listen anyway.

Scott Benner 1:18:53 Well, don't you think that's part of my mad genius then? Yeah, nice. Nice

Unknown Speaker 1:18:57 pose.

Scott Benner 1:18:58 How about the other day HBA one say did you love that one? Did you see

Unknown Speaker 1:19:06 Yeah, Dad humor Scott.

Scott Benner 1:19:08 What the lady said she kept saying my HPA one see it I'm like damn it. That's the title of this episode. I just I in all seriousness, you can't you can't to specifically title them because of the random way that I talk. Yeah, no one will know if you were famous then it would just be your name.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:31 Yeah, I mean you could call it live without the

Scott Benner 1:19:35 live without the

Unknown Speaker 1:19:36 everyone's trying to spell it with me but

Scott Benner 1:19:40 I don't know Don't you think they're gonna see like a

Unknown Speaker 1:19:43 complete on call it you can honestly Call it whatever you want. I I don't really have a huge preference.

Scott Benner 1:19:54 Can I call it live? Almost, I repeat. No, that would be one All right. That was a movie right? Live die repeat. Yeah. All right. See, there's a problem here because you have to be sensitive. I'm just gonna call it live. Because maybe that's appropriate, because that's what you're doing right?

Unknown Speaker 1:20:18 Yeah. You can call it live apostrophe i n live in.

Scott Benner 1:20:23 What? What if I do it like this? L I V? And then in brackets I put the E. Yeah, no, you didn't.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:37 I mean, that's why I named my I named myself live my legal names, not odus. I mean, it's not live. It's Odessa. And I named myself live after I got out of the hospital. So every time someone says my name, they're reminding me to keep living.

Scott Benner 1:20:51 Oh, that's a great idea. One of my daughter's best friend's name is Olivia. And I say live a lot. But can I do that? What do you think? Oh, IV and then put the E and like, alright, that's okay. We're done. We figured the whole thing. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:07 One question. All right. Before you ask the question, okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:21:11 Can I say I think I might start discussing the titles at the end with the people because I go back to edit them. And I'm like, what? Am I gonna call this? I'm gonna do that. Alright, you have a question? Oh, do I get the answer? Yeah, and I'm ready.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:27 Um, if you can, I mean, it's a kind of an arbitrary thing, but I just went in to get my valency of 5.5. Nice. Which sounds great. But you know, clarities like, Bitch, I don't think so. Um, it says I'm in like, a 6.6. area.

Scott Benner 1:21:50 How long have you been on the five? Omnipod? Five, how long have you been on at least

Unknown Speaker 1:21:56 three months? At least?

Scott Benner 1:21:58 What was your agency before the Omnipod five.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:06 It was also low. It was definitely below. Like a 6.2.

Scott Benner 1:22:12 Showing your age here live. Like you're yelling, you're like, I don't remember what that was six months ago. Leave me on. I so you were 6.2. It's as 5.5. Now clarity thinks it's higher. My first thought would be just go three more months. And look again to see if clarity. So I've

Unknown Speaker 1:22:28 had to, it's been 5.4. And now it's 5.5. Both times clarity says like 6.6 is just point seven. And my endo said that maybe I have an iron thing or whatever. All the blood tests came back. Fine.

Scott Benner 1:22:44 What's your ferritin? Level? My what? ferritin. It's part of the iron test.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:51 There are a ton. I don't know. But it's normal. Like all of the ones were in range, except my blood sugar.

Scott Benner 1:22:58 Okay, so in range for iron is kind of arbitrary. Most. So they'll tell you like, between, I don't know, hold on a second, you're gonna make me Google. I'm sorry, we'll do it together they can, they'll tell you that a for like a normal range for blood Farington for men, for example, is 24 to 36 to like 336. Only for women, it's 11 to 307. If your ferritin is 11 You're gonna fall over, especially if you're have what they call menstruating age. So I've had doctors on that said that they would treat a seven different one as low. And and your doctor's point is that low iron could throw off the a one C test and make it look lower than it is. Is that was that your doctor's point?

Unknown Speaker 1:23:54 Yeah. And like I don't believe

Scott Benner 1:23:59 also clarity is not doing anyone see it's doing a What the hell do they call

Unknown Speaker 1:24:03 it Jim? GMI. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:24:07 See if we can figure that out. Which I

Unknown Speaker 1:24:09 know is different. But I mean like looking at my average glucose it does not match a 5.5. So so then you can mind just pretending

Scott Benner 1:24:19 Yeah. So then what I'm saying is, is that maybe you should look harder at your Iron Hold on for a certain range a ones see, I don't want to say anything. Influence of iron deficiency anemia on hemoglobin Kneeland. See, reading, scanning with his eyes. Also being a little anemic, and having some of the other issues you have would not be reasonable.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:50 I mean, my mom isn't even so I wouldn't be surprised

Scott Benner 1:24:56 what's your what's your TSH when you get your thyroid done? Do you know

Unknown Speaker 1:24:59 my My TSH right now is 1.89 and I off the levothyroxine. So really, apparently I'm cured. Yeah, that happened a while ago. I don't take it anymore.

Scott Benner 1:25:11 We did they had hypothyroidism or Hashimotos.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:15 We have never been actually diagnosed with Hashimotos. But considering all the other like, what do you call it autoimmune stuff? I would assume

Scott Benner 1:25:27 so, but are you still tired a lot?

Unknown Speaker 1:25:32 I sleep a lot, but I'm not like

Scott Benner 1:25:35 when you sleep you feel rested when you're done.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:40 So long as I have coffee.

Scott Benner 1:25:41 That's a no.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:46 I I'm not great

Scott Benner 1:25:47 with the sleep. I want, I think, not where I used to be hematologist.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:54 Hematology.

Scott Benner 1:25:55 Yeah. Blood doctor. Normally they help people. They're going to be a lot of cancer patients in his office, but go go to a hematologist, excuse me. And tell them your mom is anemic. You have type one diabetes. And you your energy is low and your agency is reporting falsely low. Okay, and ask him if he would or her see this. Trouble I get into just trying to have a conversation. I don't think that women can't be hematologists or by the way, trans people or anyone else, right? I'm just It just occurs to me to say no, live now we kind of talk about it. When I picture a doctor in my head. I picture my doctor.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:44 That's always the man. Yeah, it's always been a man. Yes. My I don't know. Honestly, many than all the other ones.

Scott Benner 1:26:50 Can I be honest? I don't know if my hematologist has always been a man. I've never asked them. But what I can tell you what I can tell you is is that if if he was a cheeses if he was a woman just now I would have said she because I'm very brave.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:05 I'm literally just I'm just joking. I know. You mean the best? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:27:09 put actually, you know what intention very important. Now. Anyway, I would tell this person this doctor. Yes. That if you're if your ferritin level is under 70. Just ask him if he would consider giving you an iron infusion.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:28 Is are you saying ferritin? I don't know

Scott Benner 1:27:31 what is this like a West Coast, East Coast fight.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:35 Ta m f,

Scott Benner 1:27:38 f e r r i t i n? Okay, well, also, other, like inflammatory markers can impact your agency response to in the test. So my point is, is that you want to know, you think maybe you're seeing your agency reporting back incorrectly. And you want to make sure that it's not a function of anemia of some kind, all right, and if your levels are white, and tell him you're tired all the time, and you need caffeine to function. And because if you can get if you can get your insurance to give you one inject like infusion of of, of iron, you the next time your body makes red blood cells with that new iron rich blood, you are going to like fixed you are going to turn back on. And then you're going to know that that was the case. And then you can look into ways to address it without the without the infusion because if he tells you take an iron supplement, that's it because you're menstruating that may never catch you back. So that's the liver for the rest of my life. I guess that's what they did in the 50s All right, that's it. I'm not a doctor. This isn't advice Good luck. medical advice for other or otherwise, you were not like talking to a person your age.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:07 Or you mean oh you mean Yeah, cuz I'm young.

Scott Benner 1:29:10 Yeah. It felt like you were you don't feel your age? Yeah, I've

Unknown Speaker 1:29:13 been told that many many times. I had the trauma Scott.

Scott Benner 1:29:18 He right up 10 years. Oh, really does. Okay, so if somebody's acting really like childish did I just dangling off a bridge for a minute by their ankles. You think that pose? Well, I

Unknown Speaker 1:29:35 have some sense of doing what they used to do in the 40s. And it worked.

Scott Benner 1:29:39 I don't know if it worked or not, but they definitely used to do you just can't thank live enough for coming on the show and being so honest and open with everybody. Thank you so very much. And thank you to Omni pod for sponsoring this and so many other episodes of The Juicebox Podcast omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. You get to hear a lot of these stories because of the great sponsors. Please support them when you can. If you're looking for community, find the Juicebox Podcast on Facebook Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes is a private Facebook group with 40,000 people in it. Sorry I needed a drink. Doesn't matter what kind of diabetes you have to meet type two type one lot of gestational. You're a parent of somebody, a grandparent, an adult living with. I don't care what you eat. I don't care how you live. You're welcome there. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Please subscribe or follow in and audio app like Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music, you know all the podcast apps wherever you do it like wherever you listen, just please subscribe.

#920 Best of Juicebox: Control IQ Ninja

First aired on Apr 12, 2022. Jeremy is a Tandem Control IQ ninja.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 00:00 Hello friends and welcome to episode 920 of the Juicebox Podcast today's best of is episode 660 to control IQ ninja. This episode is with Jeremy. He is the father of a child with type one diabetes and he possesses an amazing understanding of control IQ from tandem from April 12 2022. This is control IQ ninja. While you're listening please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin Juicebox Podcast listeners use the offer code juice box at checkout at cozy earth.com to save 35% off your entire order of clothing, bedding, towels wherever you can find it cozy earth.com You'll save 35% With juicebox at checkout. If you're looking for community around type one you want to talk about tandem control like you or anything else. Find my private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook 40,000 members, type one type two parents adults beautiful mix don't care what you eat don't care how you live. You're welcome there. The podcast is sponsored today by better help better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues better help.com forward slash juicebox. To get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy. That way BetterHelp can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. You can message your therapist at any time and schedule live sessions when it's convenient for you. Talk to them however you feel comfortable text chat phone or video call. If your therapist isn't the right fit for any reason at all. You can switch to a new therapist at no additional charge. And the best part for me is that with better help you get the same professionalism and quality you expect from in office therapy. But with a therapist who is custom picked for you, and you're gonna get more scheduling flexibility, and a more affordable price betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox that's better help h e l p.com. Forward slash juicebox save 10% On your first month of therapy. The podcast is also sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one is a beautiful organization helping people with type one diabetes, and they just want you to check them out touched by type wine.org on Facebook and Instagram. They have a big event coming up in a couple of months that I'm going to be speaking at touched by type one dotwork Hello friends and welcome to episode 662 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today we're going to speak with Jeremy who is a past guest on the show. Today's topic is much different than his first topic. We'll cover that later in the podcast. But today Jeremy's gonna tell you about how he manages his son's type one diabetes with tandems control IQ. And let me tell you something, Jeremy is a next level guy. He's a bit of a ninja. He took what he learned on this podcast and just kept learning about control IQ and today he's going to tell you all about how he does it. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. After the show today, if you'd head over to t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey. I would appreciate it you need to be a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one. It only takes a few minutes T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox Well, episode were you on the first time?

Jeremy 04:44 Um, it was the after dark divorce episode.

Scott Benner 04:48 Yeah, we didn't really talk about like, yeah, okay, so go ahead and reintroduce yourself.

Jeremy 04:54 Okay, I'm Jeremy Ross Meyer. I'm a single dad of a type one diabetic. And then Damon is 13 years old. And we have been diagnosed for four years and our agency has been between 5.3 and 5.8 for over three and a half years.

Scott Benner 05:18 And in these three and a half years, have you always been using control IQ or if it hasn't been different matters?

Jeremy 05:23 No, we've done all three, we've done straight pumping with tandem we've done Basal IQ, pumping, and control, IQ, pumping, all maintaining that same a one C spread very nice. Okay. I mean, sometimes I feel like I was blessed to be able to straight pump because you really, really understand what adjustments do to blood sugar. But it you can start anywhere. Really,

Scott Benner 05:53 yeah, you could figure it out with needles, you could figure it out with pens, you can figure it out with a pump like it's all just watching the insulin go in and seeing what it does. It's I mean, it's great, obviously to be able to adjust your basil on the fly and not have to wait 24 hours to inject again to try to make an improvement or change. Just real quick for people. That episode that Jeremy was on before 508 After Dark adult child of divorce you actually came on that one because you started out. Let me see if I can remember this. Jeremy, this will be interesting. You weren't Oh, no, I

Jeremy 06:28 don't know if it is that when because you said adults.

Scott Benner 06:30 Oh, I thought the wrong one. Excuse me. Cheese 372 After Dark divorce and co parenting.

Jeremy 06:38 There you go start one.

Scott Benner 06:39 I'm starting to pot. Actually. There's a lot of them here. I have one too. I searched divorce in my episodes and came back with four. No, no kidding. All right, yours is 372. About co parenting because if I'm remembering correctly, you're divorced as your child is diagnosed. And and we all get along, right? And you guys actually get along, right? And that's what you're talking about. Right? I did get a lot of impact. Impactful letters back from people where they're like, can you just interview somebody who's not getting along and how they're doing it? Yeah. And I said, Good luck getting somebody who's not getting along with their ex to come on a podcast and talk about it. I was like, people are not generally excited to divulge that kind of stuff. But I have gotten a little closer in a recent episode 625 was about divorce and disagreement. And that person? Yes.

Jeremy 07:33 And it was an excellent, excellent representation of the other side.

Scott Benner 07:38 Yeah, yeah. So I finally got there. It's not I'm just saying not easy to get somebody to come on and talk about their spouse or their ex spouse. Yeah. Especially if they're not getting along very well. Alright. So Jeremy, you are back today? Because? Well, I know you. And I know you, especially through the Facebook page. But through our previous conversations, and we text sometimes, and you are very good at using control IQ. And, you know, I've had somebody on recently to talk about it. And we I thought had a pretty surface conversation about it. And I didn't know enough about control IQ to push back in certain places. So you're sort of on here to help me dig deeper. Sure, yeah. So I mean, kind of take it away. Tell me what you what you would tell somebody else if I said, Hey, should I should I try control IQ? What would you say?

Jeremy 08:28 So just to kind of give you an idea here, I also am, this is not an invitation to contact me and ask. I also can follow three other children up here in Montana that are on control IQ, I also control their pumps, they're a onesies are all below seven as well. So I've kind of done this long enough with enough samples to understand what needs to be done with control IQ to get it to work. Not just on my child, but on different age children on male females in puberty out of puberty. But what it really comes down to is that before we even get into control IQ, there's a few things that in my opinion, it doesn't matter what pump you're on, that needs to be better understood or mentioned. Before we get into control IQ. Stuff like consistency, how you treat Lowe's, what you treat Lowe's with using protein at night, and just allowing basil to do its job. The way that we treat like between my son and I is we either use Mott's apple juice, that's the all natural stuff, or we use gummies we know how much apple juice to drink to get to three carbs, we know how much to drink to eight carbs, and it's consistent. And it works the same way every single time. And you're going to hear the consistency through the control IQ point of view as well. We know that what a gummy will do to his blood sugar. We know that when he's dropping this hard, he needs this many gummies. The longer that you stick with the same sort of thing, the better results you're going to have, instead of just throwing Oreos that your child then like,

Scott Benner 10:36 let me let me make sure because I I know what you're saying. But I want to make sure we're all clear. Sure, there are impacts variables all over diabetes, including the things you don't think of as being impactful. And the idea of you're getting low. Oh, what do I do? Doing something consistent, breeds a consistent response. And more and more importantly, allows you to move forward without crazy highs or crazy lows or things that you don't expect to happen. So if you're consistent with how you bump your your low blood sugars, then you'll be consistent with what happens afterwards. Not just like, hey, this time eat an Oreo next time have a piece of chocolate cake this time. Yeah, cuz soda, like that kind of thing. Treat the Yes.

Jeremy 11:20 There's always times dt, the whole fridge. Yeah, right. You know, there's always those extremely high delta where they're about to pass out and you just grab anything and everything and throw it down their throat doesn't happen often. If it is happening, often there's something wrong. But moving moving on from that, we have to kind of talk about what I call garbage in garbage out. Which means that you know, you need to be checking your Dexcom ratings, not just doing nothing about them. That starts with a good glucometer. And I this is not an ad for

Scott Benner 12:04 you want me to do the ad Jeremy. The Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Are you about to say that? Are you about to say it's a great meter,

Jeremy 12:10 I just couldn't remember what the hell it was called. But one thing but anyways, in the thing that we've tried different, there are tons of third party studies out there that shows that that Contour Next One is the most accurate meter on the market period. Now I understand there are some people that you know, can't afford, you know, something like that, because the strips are fairly expensive. But they're, there's so many times that that meter will exactly match Dexcom it's not even funny. Yeah, I agree. Then there's certain things about Dexcom. Like you need I hear I hear a lot of people say, Oh, well, we never calibrate. We're a family that calibrates with my son. If you do not calibrate, the second it comes on, it will dump Low to low, and it will die. You have to calibrate my son immediately when it comes on. And then you're good for the first two days. You have to calibrate on the third then we have to calibrate on the eighth every other fingerstick that we do every single morning this this consistency. And every single night before he goes to bed is normally within five points.

Scott Benner 13:30 But you still do it you still do it every time.

Jeremy 13:33 You still do it every single time. Yeah, you have to the center will die. We've we've heard you know Kevin Sayer Come on, and say that it's just it doesn't work the same way for everybody. We just figured out what works for us. And with a very accurate Dexcom rating from a very, you know, accurate glucometer you can stop the garbage in garbage out. And what I mean by that is only testing the blood sugar and checking Dexcom whenever the side arrows sideways and making sure you understand how the Dexcom works.

Scott Benner 14:17 So that the numbers you're working with are good or accurate so that you can end up making good decisions with Ardennes interesting artists decks, either works, boom, or it's needs to be calibrated on the first day. Yeah, one of the other. I don't, I don't I haven't seen a rhyme or reason to it. I would tell you the last six of them we've put on I haven't had to do that. And then before that a couple of them need lit people's body chemistry is different. There's all kinds of different things going on. But your your your specific point is so incredibly important and valid which is you are making decisions, measuring a medication based on a number and you might be getting that number with a meter that's not accurate. or to CGM that's not accurate. And then you're making decisions and, and running forward. I love that you test twice a day.

Jeremy 15:07 But here's the bigger picture. Scott. Yeah, you keep saying that I'm making decisions. Now putting algorithms and control, right? You have bad Dexcom readings, you it's 100 points higher. And it's dumping more insulin than it should. Garbage in, garbage out, you have garbage information going into the algorithm, you're gonna get garbage out. So it is very vitally important to make sure that you have a Dexcom rating that is reliable. Yeah, this is this is this is all algorithms. This is Omnipod. Five, this is control IQ. This is going to be control IQ. 2.0. Whatever else comes out from Medtronic, you know, everything is based off of that blood sugar reading. And if it's not accurate, how can you expect your results to be accurate? They can't,

Scott Benner 16:02 and you have to take some responsibility for that yourself.

Jeremy 16:05 Yes, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's, um,

Scott Benner 16:08 can I think a tiny like, brief little sidebar here on the Sure. I'm forever interested when longtime type ones come on, and they'll say things like, I didn't want to get a CGM until there was no calibration needed. Because it's always the inference is always that it's such an inconvenience, like, why would I take on this new thing, if it still needed my effort? And I think that's an old timey way of thinking about it. You know, I think that I mean, a CGM for my daughter is first, right? Like seriously, if the house was burning down and I could grab a pump or a CGM on the way out the door. CGM, right. Not to say that it's a one of the other decision. I'm also of course, a huge fan of the pump. But But my point is that is that the idea that if it's not completely nothing, I have to touch ever or nothing, I have to think about that. I don't want to do it. I don't understand. You know, like, this is just, this is where we're at with this technology. And, you know, using Dexcom G sixes, as an example, you know, they tell you, you don't need to calibrate, that means they got it through the FDA, and you're gonna be okay. If you don't calibrate, but you that might be that one day, the thing thinks you're 130. And you're, I don't know, 150? Or you're exactly your ad and it says you're one I don't know, like it might not.

Jeremy 17:33 Here's the thing, though, Scott, is that if you want better than average control, right, you need to have better than average information going in effort. And in order to get that better than average information going in, you have to calibrate. You hear people all the time saying, oh, Dexcom is 15 minutes behind, not if your line is straight. Not it? That's only whenever it's falling or rising. If it's if you're primarily straight, and I know and I will get into this later, that I'm not saying my son is straight all day long. He is not he is just like Arden. He has trips to 180 Maybe once a day, and he comes back down. I am not one of those people that that craves a absolutely straight line. I do not go nuts. I just don't allow it to get nutty. In the long run. Yeah.

Scott Benner 18:32 But your point is, is that when you're in the middle of stability, and your the blood sugar is 96 and it's been 96 for the better part of three hours. If you're there's a way to be certain that that's true. And by checking checking with a finger stick and then telling Yes. And then calibrating sometimes,

Jeremy 18:50 and that's first thing in the morning when they first wake up. Okay, that's how it's working last a water. Check your blood. He knows every morning glass of water, check your blood. Water gets blood moving, and he doesn't have anything impacting his blood sugar. Dexcom should be pretty straight on.

Scott Benner 19:07 Yeah. And it is normally. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's

Jeremy 19:12 like within five point if it's within five, we don't touch it. If it's within 10 Like if it's 10 or more, we're calibrating and that's both. That's way sorry for the swearing. That's that's just it's not acceptable. And I know that may sound extreme, but it's not. It really isn't

Scott Benner 19:32 from your from your experience. What's my question here? This is just proving out to you over and over again. Yes, but it is not wait Dexcom would tell you to do is that correct?

Jeremy 19:44 Absolutely not. Okay. I'm just like, you know, dumping more insulin on your kids 30 minutes after he just ate is not what an endo would tell you to do. So I guess moving On more to like the pump, the next thing that you kind of have to remember is that you have to understand the pump that you're on. Doesn't matter which pump it is you have to understand how it works, especially if there's an algorithm involved. Control IQ is not a miracle machine, like a lot of people think. Adjustments still have to be close and made and sometimes made often. But you start looking at the tandem, and I don't want to start sounding like a tandem shill, but I am. The big things with tandem is that you can adjust basil in point 001 increments after point one, like Omnipod, or Medtronic can do point 05. That's a 50 times increase in adjustability. And we all know how much Basil is how in basil, how important Basil is something that a lot of people don't know is that the on a tandem? The carb ratio, if it's under 10. You can adjust it by point one instead of one. Yeah, if you have eight isn't working. And nine is too strong. You can do 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 A point but you can do by point one to dial in that carb ratio. Okay. Once again, this comes back to consistency. You need it. You can't just flop on either. Or if nines too strong. You can't say Oh, well, I'll just, you know turn their basil down for a half an hour. No, get it right. I mean, let's be honest, our kids normally eat the same thing every morning at breakfast. I try to offer him a million different things, but it's always pancakes with chocolate chips, strawberries, and milk. Wow. Every single morning. A lot of cooking. Well, we always get those frozen. Okay, okay. So pancakes.

Scott Benner 22:09 Oh, I got in your mind Jeremy. You're whipping up pancake batter and cutting up strawberries? And no. So so back to that other point. You're saying that, like for instance, Arden's carb ratio is one to four and a half, but it could end up being one to 4.7 instead, yes. Right. And you have and

Jeremy 22:28 it will, it will allow the tandem will allow you to make those 10th adjustments if the carb ratio is under 10. And you may think, Oh, well, you know, that's just being too picky. Well, no, like, whenever carb ratios get below 10, they get crazy. You know, my son is 13. He, according to his Endo, I don't really understand it. There's four stages of puberty. And he's in stage three, and he's peaking right now. And he doesn't understand how he's still less than 1%. Low. And it's, you know, he doesn't understand how he's 5.6. And he doesn't understand a lot. But, you know, the proper pump adjustment is one thing, you know,

Scott Benner 23:14 yeah. So these, all these little things put together. Are the assets are the answer to stability, right? It's the Yes, making sure that the data you're working off of is sound. It's not just randomly picking an amount of insulin, but actually being able to dial it in very closely. Yes. And it's consistency with how you are addressing low blood sugars. Its consistency with drinking that glass of water in the morning, before you test your sugar. Like all those little things, do you find them to be overwhelming? Or do they just happen? Pretty?

Jeremy 23:48 No, they have they seem a little at first, and I've had a few parents tell me Well, that seems like a lot. I'm like, No, it doesn't real after about, you know, a week, you'll be like, Oh, this makes sense. And the families that I do help, you know, and that they do get this way, you'll see like a huge improvement. They go Oh, I get it now. Okay, because you'll start seeing those improvements. You know, it's not just in the pump, or the algorithm. It's how you're treating everything else.

Scott Benner 24:19 So when you hear when you hear me say that more effort upfront, saves you a ton on the back end. That's how Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy 24:27 Yes. And but the thing is, is it doesn't become a lot of front, other than the first couple of weeks while you're getting used to once you get it. You're not being strict. You're not forcing you know, I'm lucky as hell that my son loves apple juice and he's never become bored of it. I asked him like every other month or so. Hey, do you want to try something else other than apple juice? Yeah, he goes, nope, I'm good. Yeah, but, you know, boys,

Scott Benner 24:53 etc. Sometimes Tell me if this sounds familiar, you're all set up with a diabetes supplier. And they've told you don't worry, we're gonna send you your supplies on time, you're never gonna have to call us again, this is going to be easy. And then one day, your stuff doesn't show up. You run out of your Dexcom supplies, your libre supplies, your insulin pumps, and the new ones aren't there the way they're supposed to be. So you call them up on the phone? And what do you say? Well, I don't know what you say. But here's what I say when it happens to me say you guys told me this wasn't going to be a problem. They say is this always happens at the end of the year? Well, we needed a new prescription. And we reached out to your doctor, but they didn't get back to us. Then there's this long pause. Like it's not their fault. The people who told you they were going to take care of this are now foisting the blame onto someone else. What does that mean that they reached out to your doctor? I don't know. Does that mean they send them a fax? They call them on the phone? They send up smoke signals? I couldn't begin to tell you what my old suppliers did. What I can tell you is what US med does. It's simple. They get it done. There's no Nunna boom. Not supposed to curse stone. Yeah, it's but you hear what I'm saying? You asked med tells you they're going to take care of it. They're going to get a script from your doctor, then they get a script from your doctor. That's simple. US med takes over 800 private insurances. They accept Medicare nationwide. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies with fast and free shipping. carry everything from insulin pumps to testing supplies, CGM, they have what you need, all you have to do is go get your benefits check at us. med.com, forward slash juicebox. If you don't like the internet, you could also call 888-721-1514. Well, now we know where you're going to get your blood glucose meter at. But now we need to decide which one are you going to buy. If you asked me, I'm gonna say the one that my daughter uses the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. I have no copy in front of me, I'm not looking at a website, let me just tell you why I would pick that meter. First thing that pops in my mind. It's easy to hold easy to carry, easy to put in a bag, or a pair of pants, or wherever you carry your stuff. And I mean, like a pocket. It's small, but not too small. It's easy to read has a bright screen and a bright light for nighttime viewing. The test strips allow Second Chance testing, here's what that simply means. Should you touch the blood but not good enough, you can go back and get more without interfering with the quality of the test result. And that is not to say that it needs a lot of blood, it actually doesn't need very much at all. The sample size I find to be very small. This is in fact the easiest to use, handiest and most importantly, most accurate blood glucose meter that my daughter has ever used, that I have ever used, that I have ever been in the same room with the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, go find out more about it. At contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. When you get there, you're going to see a very informative website, and easy ways to get yourself a great meter. It's actually possible that the meter and test strips could be cheaper in cash than you're paying right now through your insurance for your current meter. And there's very little chance that that meter is as accurate as the Contour Next One, there's only one thing left for you to do. Go to our browser type contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. You will also find links in the show notes of the podcast player you're using and at juicebox podcast.com. And by the way, if you're listening in an audio after this podcast, please hit subscribe or follow. Alright that's it for the ads. Let's get back to Jeremy he has a lot more to share about how he uses control IQ.

Jeremy 29:08 The biggest thing is like we're talking and once again about pump adjustment is you'll hear often people will tell you to adjust Basal by 10%. That seems to be a pretty standard adjustment. But I always tell people not to and here's why. Let's say your kid is point seven five an hour and you add 10% to that. The math to that is it will end up equaling out point eight to five I believe and that will be a difference of point 075 You're adding point 075 When adding 10% 2.75 So then they're at eight to five, which tandem doesn't have a problem doing it can go out to that Also remember, so eight point or sorry, point eight to five plus 10%, they need more, another basil increased, you're now at point 907. And that's a difference of points 082. So you've went from an increase at seven, five of point 075. And you've now increased Basal again by point eight, two, or point zero, a two. Then from 907, you add 10%, you get point 997. Now you're adding point 09. It's not consistent. Every single time, whenever I first started out, I, the best thing like the CD could have told me is every single time or she kind of showed me on an AGP report. And I'll kind of talk about that a little bit later. But every time you see a change here, I want you to just change the pump by point zero to five. That was my quote, baby step. That's what she called the baby step. But it consists and then okay, but it's consistent point zero to five, because you will know what point zero to five does. If it keeps increasing, because you're going by 10%, there's no consistency there, you're adding more and more and more or taking away less than less. Currently, point 025 is a huge jump for us. Once you get basil dialed in enough, I literally move my son's basil by five 1000s of a unit of basil per hour. I know exactly what that does. And it's normally nine out of 10 times enough to get him perfectly back in life. Wow. If you take our Dexcom, 90 day AGP report it is a straight line with very little variation. And it's all because of the consistency it's knowing what that point 005 Or a point 01 change in Basal will do and keeping it consistent.

Scott Benner 32:11 How often do you think you change this base or it

Jeremy 32:15 um, so I changed them two days ago, before that I had not touched them in a month and a half to two months, even in full bore puberty. And he's still his average blood sugar is still down there very low one hundreds. And as best he is in the mid 20s. That's excellent. And I wasn't able to I once you get dialed in and you fully understand how to keep things consistent. things stay consistent. Now I understand there are people in honeymoon that does not apply to you. There are people that you know, have sports does not apply to you while my son is active. That's it. A lot of it's about knowing how to treat before sports before jumping on the trampoline before doing all this other stuff. He knows like before PE because he's moved into independent at school. He knows before PE he goes and ask the teacher Hey, what are we doing today? And if it's something like we're playing dodgeball, or we're running the mile he knows to grab, you know, something out of his bag, and get some carbs move it. And that's just more consistency. But let's you want to get into control IQ. Yeah. And actually,

Scott Benner 33:34 no, I appreciate your overview of how you think about it, though. Yeah, I mean, really, that's very helpful to me. Because I mean, you'll admit, I would imagine, maybe you won't, but you listen to the podcast. So you're thinking at this. I think you're taking, like, things that I talked about, and you're being more granular with them much more so than I ever am. Yeah, and and you're fine tuning things down even farther, like you're, you keep tightening that that wrench until it's exactly where you want it to be. It's It's amazing. I mean,

Jeremy 34:08 but the thing is, like I said, is that once you get there, you don't have to do much work once it's about learning the patterns and staying consistent, right? And looking at the ADP report at least once a week and saying, Oh, look at that. I might want to scooch that up a little bit. Instead of just oh my god, what's going on? It's like, one day, it's just random. If it happens two days for me there needs to be a change. If the third day it's still not right you're gonna get changed again. You know, something's gonna change you don't my

Scott Benner 34:43 bigger takeaway from this is that wherever you are. You're not too far. Why do I how do I say this? Hold on. Let me think Jeremy. If your management style keeps you at a 200 blood sugar and suddenly your blood sugar tries to jump to an average to 10 blood sugar, you don't have to manage much to get back to 200. If your average management keeps you at 150, or 120, or 110, or at whatever your management style is, once you're there, and you can accomplish it, even when other variables come in and try to move you off of your success, the adjustments to come back to where your norm is, or not these great, crazy things that need to be done. Is that the thing you're telling me? Yes, okay. All right. I agree. Okay. So,

Jeremy 35:33 yeah. Let's talk about algorithms, and how, how at least control IQ works. Because I often see in post, people saying, way, way wrong things. And I often want to correct them, but I often come off as a jerk. And oftentimes, Scott has to get on there and say, Oh, well, Jeremy is a really good guy.

Scott Benner 35:58 Boys are not well, sometimes boys are not good at communicating and writing

Jeremy 36:02 No, no, no, absolutely not. So the first thing that you need to know about control IQ, is there's three different modes, there's normal mode, there's exercise mode, and then there's sleep mode. We do not we're not sleeping beauty, we do not use sleep mode, 24 hours a day, there's a lot of people that swear by it, but my endo would come unglued. And I'm just not going to deal with it. Our results are fine, we don't have to go there. So in normal mode, this is where control IQ is at 90% of the day, if you're using control IQ as it should be. I'm not saying it's the right way, because there's many ways to skin a cat. So in normal mode, control IQ will target 112.5. I know that's a weird number, but it is a real number. However, we'll adjust the Basal based on predicted blood glucose levels. 30 minutes out that six readings. Now, if you're maintaining between 112.5 and 160, it will deliver the settings that you yourself or your Mo has put into your pump, nothing changes, it's not doing anything but running off the settings inside your pump. Now, control IQ will increase Basal insulin. If the sensor glucose value is predicted to be above 160. In the next 30 minutes. Once again, that six ratings it looks it says okay, they're moving by plus five the deltas moving by plus five every five minutes. If I apply that six readings out, are they going to be above 160? Yes or No? If yes, it's going to start increasing the Basal. Now control IQ will decrease Basal insulin delivery. If the sensor glucose is predicted to be below 112.5. In the next 30 minutes. Once again, six readings out if you're 180 and you start dumping by 20s It's going to start you know cutting insulin control IQ will stop all Basal insulin delivery if the sensor glucose level is predicted to be below 70 In the next 30 minutes. So if you're dropping hard, and if it depending on how fast you're moving, if it thinks that you're going to be below 70 In the next 30 minutes, it will cut all insulin. Oftentimes, you have to you have to understand that when setting your Basal that while it's important with control IQ, insulin sensitivity factor is just as important as Basal if not more important than Basal with control IQ. Okay, because the pump uses the ISF or the insulin correction ratio or the correction factor. However you want to say it to determine how much insulin to increase or decrease when making its modulation to the Basal. So what I like to tell people is to think of it as an aggressiveness knob. If you're seeing big cycling, which means the start to go high and then the you start to go low and you're kind of riding a wave all night long. What that means is that you've actually got two wrongs, which looks like a right. While it's fairly steady, you're cycling and what will happen. This happens I know with loop a little bit too. Not sure if Omnipod five yet, but what happens is if you get the Basal a little loose, you'll start drifting up, then control IQ will say, Oh, they're drifting up, we need to add more insulin, then the ISF is a bit too stiff, and it will start sending you a low and you will cut insulin, and then you're stuck in it. And then you'll start going high because of the kind of insulin and then you'll go low because you end up cycling, bouncing. Yeah, so what looks normal, might be two wrongs look like a right. So and that's the biggest complaint is that Basal IQ cuts them slim, then they go high. And then they overcorrect. And they go low, right. So your pumps already trying to handle it. And you're not allowing it to because of your settings.

Scott Benner 40:47 Are you saying that this becomes obvious when you see basically the settings fighting with each other? There, there's,

Jeremy 40:54 they're not fighting each other. They're just wrong. They're wrong, but they're not fighting each other. It's just the algorithm responding the way that it was designed to respond.

Scott Benner 41:06 And using those headings, it makes you it makes you a little too low, it cuts itself off, which makes you too high, it gets aggressive again, which makes you low. And you're saying that if these two settings were more in line with what you actually needed, there'd be this stability where there'd be some insulin, but you wouldn't be taking it away and then adding extra and taking away and adding extra time. Yes. Okay. And that process of take even though the algorithm can keep up with the problem, mostly taking away giving back taking away giving back, that is not your goal.

Jeremy 41:38 No, absolutely not. Okay. So we kind of went over what normal mode looks like exercise mode, in my opinion, my opinion, is completely worthless, unless you're thinking two hours ahead, and what 13 year old looks two hours ahead. The way it works is instead of targeting that 112.5, it will target 150 instead, it will still deliver correction doses, if you're predicted to be above 180. In the next 30 minutes, it will still increase Basal if predicts by the blood glucose to be above 160 In the next 30 minutes. It will decrease insulin even if it predicts the BG lower than 160. In the next 30 minutes, it will suspend. If it predicts your blood glucose will be lower than 80 in the next 30 minutes instead of 70. Like in normal mode. So if you know that you're gonna go on a bike ride in two hours, then yes, you can turn on exercise mode, and it will protect you and it's great. If you're running a marathon, you know, an hour and a half, two hours away to turn it on. It works great. But for a lot of parents, they say oh, it doesn't work. And that's because they turn it on right before their kid gets on the trampoline, and then wonders why Johnny goes low on the trampoline. It's not great for those kids, you know, and those families that are a lot more spontaneous. And you know, I don't know about a lot of people, but like, my kid has a full sized trampoline in the backyard, next to a huge 16 foot pool. And yes, he uses them together all summer long.

Scott Benner 43:22 Well, I think that it's funny, because while you're talking about this, I'm relating it to loop in my head. Yeah. And what I'm thinking is that when I see when I look at overnight, what I want to see is that Arden's Basal insulin is not being cut away constantly. And that there's no correction that correction bonuses aren't happening all the time. And I do want to say that things happen, and you want the algorithm to work. But generally speaking away from impacts, like you know, boluses food, you know, hormones, like it just that normal time, which God knows Jeremy, how often do the normal times happen, but in those normal times, you want your settings to just work there where they are, and the result is low and stable. Yes, yeah. And that low low, like normal and stable.

Jeremy 44:17 Yes. And then that moves us into that sleep mode that everybody raves about. So, really quick sleep mode will target a very tight range of 112 and a half to 120. While it's fun, but not deliver any correction doses whatsoever. It will however, be much more aggressive with increasing and decreasing the Basal once again that's where the insulin sensitivity factor comes into great play. You have to have ISF dialed in immaculately overnight, along with Basal but Thaman normally He gets down in that. Oh, 85 to 95 range all night long. From one week after starting control IQ I slept every single night. I maybe have one or two nights a month where he has the compression low, and an alarm goes off. Other than that, if it wasn't for my sleep apnea, I would sleep all through the night.

Scott Benner 45:28 85 to 95. Yeah, yeah. And you're doing that not in sleep mode?

Jeremy 45:34 No, we're doing that in sleep. Right? Excuse me, we're just not in sleep mode. 24/7, like a lot of people do. There's, there's a lot of people that that their life is very dense normally on older type ones, or type ones that have the very, very strange, strange, stringent routine every single day where everything's the same. We eat the same breakfast, lunch and dinner, we exercise at the same point in time, every single day, there's not a lot of variation, you're able to turn that 20 That that sleep mode on 24/7. And if you're these people that have those settings, set up just perfectly, there is no reason for control IQ to dump a 60% correction. Right? They do that themselves. They're already so in tune with themselves. Because they've been doing this for so long. That they're making no they don't believe that.

Scott Benner 46:33 Yeah, they're making they're making great Bolus is around food. They're not fast letting a lot to begin with.

Jeremy 46:38 Exactly. And so they they benefit from Sleep mode being more aggressive. And you know, when they're when they're awake, because they're they're not running away. You know, running 100 yard dash when like a 13 year old, sees a girl from half a block away.

Scott Benner 46:58 Yeah. Right. Or going from the trampoline to the pole back of the trampoline or something like

Jeremy 47:03 that. Yes, exactly. I say. From there, it's it's a lot of it is understanding Dexcom reports. And we're talking about clarity, if you don't have clarity downloaded on your phone, sign into it. There's tons of different reports. And yes, they look intimidating at first. Needless to say, the only thing that matters to me on on Dexcom clarity is that AGP report, it's the very last one, it shows you your average blood sugar at a given time throughout the whole day, then it has a blue bubble around it that shows basically, without getting horrifically nerdy shows you how variable you've been around that average blood sugar. And then from there, it's using those reports to make smart, educated, experienced decisions in a very consistent manner. To get better than average results. You look at the age gap report. And if you start seeing like on a seven day average, you keep raising every single day at 3:20pm. About an hour and a half before that will kick up. You should probably have a Basal segment there. It's about a lot of people will argue over two or three or one Basal segments in a pump. Yeah, my son has nine. Wow. And the reason that he has nine is because that's what he needs. And you look at a GDP report, like I said, I can pull up a 30 day graph and it's straight as can be. And the blue line is very, very close to that red, that red line in the middle. It's I don't want to say it's not rocket science. It's all with time and experience. And staying very consistent and understanding what each thing that you're adding is going to do.

Scott Benner 49:22 I'm pulling up Arden's AGP report right now so that I can ask you a question about it. Because what you said was to make you know, you talked about making smart decisions about changes but who tells you what those changes are like, what what about the report says something to you and says, you know, go ahead and you know, this means do a thing. You know what I mean? Like, like so I have Arden's last. It's interesting, right? I just, it just popped up her last two days. And she's not she doesn't have any hormonal impact and the last two days are much less. Her standard deviation cuts in half. If, when that happens, yeah, very, very interesting. It's it can go, it can be as high as 40. At times, with still an average blood sugar of 110 to 114. Yep, yep. And then as soon as the birth control pill she's on goes to placebo, her deviation goes into the low 20s. Yeah, right away. And that's just,

Jeremy 50:24 and I dealt with one other young, young, younger female, she was 13, that it was the same way. It just depending on what type of month it was, and we made those adjustments, and we made a different, you know, deal in the in the pump to deal with that time of the month. And we figured out okay, every month, she needs this much more three days before she's really regular. Let's, you know, treat this the way it should be treated, we know that she's regular, let's be brave. And let's start increasing that insulin the day before, we know we need it. But go ahead and go back to the GP reports.

Scott Benner 51:07 Let's talk about well, I got my glasses, but I'm, it's hard to put them on the console. I just got old out of nowhere a couple years ago. So I went back and I went to 30 days now. So the last 30 days, the last three weeks Arden has been trying. So I think everybody who listens knows like we're trying to regulate Ardens period with the birth control pill, it isn't going so great. But so I have her average glucose is 122. Over the last 30 days, she has been very low 1.4% of the time, which means under 54, low 6.4% of the time, which means 70 under 70. I don't particularly consider that low, but that's okay. In target. And the target, of course is you know, 70 to 180. For the report, I have AD Yes 83.4% of the time high over 180 10% of the time and very high point 3% of the time. Her coefficient of variation was 33 over the last month and like I said her standard deviation is 40. When you when you get all that involved now, in truth, I don't know I haven't looked back. I don't look at clarity as much as I should to be perfectly honest. So so when I look at this line that I'm seeing, it appears to be incredibly stable. Right around 100 110. For this last 30 days, I see a little bit of an uptick around 2pm that lasts until about six or so. So if she does get higher, she can go 130 or so in that timeframe. And when I do see the 180s it's in that exact timeframe, four o'clock, four o'clock, eight o'clock. Anyway, I don't know, what do I do with this?

Jeremy 52:54 So I focus on the red line in the middle, okay. And I kind of make sure that I understand that where meals are and that there is going to be a spike. But in that 30 Day graph lease, I normally make adjustments on the seventh day or the 14th. But the 30 tells a lot. It tells how long have you had this problem. And if and if you see on the 30 day graph, a slight uptick because I'm pretty I've seen AGP reports and I'm like holy hell, and it takes a good month to straighten that red line out like rubber bands. That doesn't mean that they're like that every single day. That just means that your average that's where your average is I don't care about day to day. Yeah, the median I care about the average over time because this is a marathon, not a race. And so if I saw on the 30 day graph, a slight increase at 2pm I would look at my son's pump, and I would say okay, that basil at 1230 Keeping in mind that his lunches that 1130 At school, I know it's not lunch, that's the basil issue to me. And I would literally go to 1230 an hour and a half before two and I found that all but one of the kids that I've helped her one of the families that I've helped every single last one of them it's been an hour and a half before the before the event on AGP. So I would go to 1230 and I would literally bump him if it's just a slight one I would literally bumped him five 1000s on his Basal, okay. And it will be at two o'clock it will hit and point 005 isn't enough to to drive them low. And then the next day if you look at it, you're like, Okay, it's still there. But if I did another point 005 It would be done. You know, and that's where I go. I don't get so granular that I go by the 1000s but I do go by the 5000s or the point one because I can look at a line and be like okay, that happened yesterday too. And at that angle or that Delta, the change in in blood sugar reading that that angle is going to need a point one instead of a point 005 It you know, you'll you'll get used to it, you'll you'll look at a line you'll be like, Okay, that's happened three days now. That's that's going to be a point one instead of a point 005. That's because you're staying consistent. And you know what point 005 does, or you know what point one does?

Scott Benner 55:32 Well, so that's

Jeremy 55:33 point 01. Sorry,

Scott Benner 55:34 now, so when I'm looking at this, looking at Arden's also, the other thing we're doing is it Arden is we're onboarding more and more responsibility to Arden as it gets closer to her leaving for college, a little bit of her practicing. And I think this is her doing a not great job of Pre-Bolus thing as much as she should for her launch.

Jeremy 55:54 So blow your mind. We don't Pre-Bolus at all,

Scott Benner 55:59 ever anymore. Because everything's so tight for you. Yes, and it doesn't matter.

Jeremy 56:06 It does not matter. Because the other thing that people don't think about is lots of people do. I'm not saying everybody but a lot of the things that people don't understand is they'll show me a chart. And they'll say, Well, I dosed correctly for this meal. And look, there's still 250 At the end of the day. But if you look at the line when they dosed, they were already climbing. And the thing is, is whenever you Bolus with any pump on the market, any pump on the market, whenever you Bolus for a meal, the pump assumes a straight line. If you hit Bolus, Ada carbs and hit enter. It's going to assume it tandem will automatically pull your Dexcom reading into that calculator. And let's say it was 150 it will assume that your blood sugar is 150. And completely steady. It does not take in and this this goes for Omnipod. This goes for everything. It assumes a straight line. So if you are 150, and you're an arrow up, it's going to under Bolus you. If you are 150 arrow down, you it's going to over Bolus you. So that comes back to like if you look at the meal and you you're having ADA carbs, your 150 and your let's say arrow diagonal up. And you're looking at the Delta and you're like Okay, so the delta is moving about point six right now. You have to think 30 minutes ahead. So okay, so 30 minutes ahead. At 630. That's six readings time, that's 30 points more, so you're gonna have to think okay, so I know my son's ISF is 55. So that looks like about an extra point seven units of insulin. So what I'll literally have him do is I'll say, hey, what does your pump say, to give you? And let's say it's it says to give him an even for four units just to, you know, throw an easy number out there. I'll tell him, Hey, can you change that to point or 4.7, please, because he's going up, the pump doesn't know he's going up, it assume sees 150 in a straight line. So you add that extra insulin based on time, you're not going to have the time they want even spike. It's understanding that that pump isn't going to deliver based on the change of Delta before meal. And I hope that's not too. too nerdy.

Scott Benner 58:57 No. Are you kidding? That's why you're here. What are you talking about? That's exactly why you're actually I've also, I didn't realize that in clarity that we had settings before the reports set where I don't care about them. Like, like I want to me a high blood sugar's 140 That yeah, that's what I mean, that's what I'm looking for.

Jeremy 59:26 So lots of people don't have that setup. correctly. Now I understand your idea of a highest 140 And there's a lot of us that you know, that is how it is. I prefer clarity to be set to 70 to 180. Okay, and I know that you know, tell me why everybody here everybody hear me out here is Ada standard says 70% and time between 70 and 180 with a SD are a standard deviation of less than 1/3 of the average BG, that is your target. And here's why I use that in clarity to make people understand 72% Of all type ones do not meet that very, very loose standard. And I need people to understand that whenever it's said to somebody to 180, I can say, look, you're 83% in range right now, between 70 and 180. Remember, 73% of all type ones, don't even get that ever, you're doing so much better. Yeah. And if you set it to 140, that's great. If you can get it's like, it's 80% in range between 70 and 140. That's more work than I care to do.

Scott Benner 1:00:49 So I just changed it. And I did it for the last 90 days. And in Target Range 83%. So, you know, so right

Jeremy 1:00:59 now, like Thaman, let's do the 90 days, average glucose of 127. Very low point, one, low 1.3%, in target 91.3, highest 7.4. And very high at 0.6.

Scott Benner 1:01:21 That's interesting, our, our high and our very high are very similar. And our targets very similar. That's interesting, because

Jeremy 1:01:26 we don't put up with it. And we look at things before they happen, and we take care of them before they happen. It's trusting what you know is going to happen is going to happen. And making sure you do something about it, you know, don't just I mean, control IQ. Like I said, no algorithm is perfect. Yeah, if you just think that you're going to turn on control IQ, or Omni pod five, for that matter, or loop for that matter or any other algorithm and just be able to set it and forget it, you're sorely mistaken is not going to work out what control IQ does for me, is it provides sleep every night. And a reduction in the time that I have to study things. And the amount of changes I have to make by a better fold of 90%, I still have to do a little bit of lifting. But that's like I said before that comes with with time and experience and understanding how insulin works in your or your child's body and taking things in a very consistent manner. Once you understand how that point, you know, one change and basil is going to hit and you're accurately able to change basil? Or are you correct a low blood sugar in a very consistent manner, things become so much easier because you understand what the impact of the insulin or the carbs are going to have. And your outcomes are going to be more precise and better done. Now, this, I know it sounds like I'm being like so strict, and everything else I'm not. It's just understanding it. And like once I understood it, and I got everything dialed in, I do even less work. Because I've done figured it out for my son. And I've done figured it out for these other people that they can just go on cruise control. And we know that whenever a change in Basal needs to happen, or a carb ratio change needs to happen. It's not a big deal. Make the small change to make the impact and let it go. If it happens, again, make that small change again and let it go. It's not a big deal.

Scott Benner 1:03:42 Right. I think I think what you're saying has far reaching implications to not I mean, is this specific situation you are really motivated guy who's incredibly smart and tuned into this. Obviously, listen to a great podcast that got you going and you've just run with absolutely, yeah. I'm joking, but I'm not joking. I think the podcast is terrific. But you know what I'm saying? So, but what I'm going that is that everyone doesn't need to do it at the level that Jeremy's talking about to get the benefit of the of the big picture of what he's talking about. Because I feel like you're I almost feel like I'm hearing my voice come back through you on a lot of a lot of points about you know, stay involved. You know, pay attention. Don't settle for high blood sugars don't over treat low blood sugars like this. Some. Those things are just universally true.

Jeremy 1:04:38 Yeah. But when those things happen whenever you do give too much insulin or you're too bold, don't let that be afraid. Just that is something that happened. And as long as you say okay, that happened. Let's move past it and keep going and don't get scared with it. If you over treat a lot When he goes in your child goes high. That's okay. That's one high in the time of their life is a marathon, not a race. Don't beat yourself up. I see all these parents beating themselves up that. Oh, well, we overcorrected. And now they're high for the next three hours, and I corrected three hours ago. And it's like, Stop, just stop beating yourself up, take care of it, drop it, learn from the situation and move on. Right, your mental health as a caretaker, is just as important as your child's health. Yeah, do not allow your child's diabetes to take control of your mental status. I mean, I ended up having to go on to Paxil, just to deal with the anxiety. I ended up in the hospital with heart attack like symptoms and ended up being stressed and anxiety. Learn what you can, so you understand what's going on. keep things consistent. So you have consistent outcomes, make small, impactful decisions and drop things that don't work. If it happens one day, it's random. If it happens more than once, change something, don't wait. And then because you get just the third day, it happens, you get frustrated. The fourth day, you start feeling down that you can't take care of your child make the change. And if it's something small, just just try one small thing, and then go okay, that kind of worked. Let's do it a little bit more, and work your way up to being able to do things by yourself, but don't allow this disease to overcome yet.

Scott Benner 1:06:41 Let me let me get some clarity on something you just said. So are you saying that prior to you understanding all of this, the stress was a lot is the stress still there now? No, no,

Jeremy 1:06:52 we live life man. Yeah. So they know everybody. There's some people that say, Oh, your son may not must not be doing anything. The dude, this kid is more active than most. He's not in any sports. He is. He's a nerd like me. He's in all honors classes. He has straight A's. He's in the National Honor Society. The kid, I can't even help him with his math homework anymore. The kids smart is wet. But he is still active. He goes for bike rides, he goes jumps on the trampoline, he wins. He runs around with his brother and sister. He does all types of very active things. He goes to the jump Park. And we do this spontaneously. We don't do it in fear go, oh, well, we're gonna go swimming tomorrow. Oh, guy can't wonder wonder what's gonna happen with his blood sugar. No, take extra carbs go in there, give him some extra cardio before he jumps to the pool. Let them have fun. Let's go. Let's live life. I know it's terrifying. But the thing is that you got to try. And if it doesn't work the first time try again. I think a lot of eventually something's gonna work. Right.

Scott Benner 1:08:03 And I think a lot of the mental comfort that comes eventually is from seeing things happen that you expect. And yeah, and paying attention to the beginning to these things. Your Basal if you're on it, you know, if you're on an algorithm, even more so for insulin sensitivity, but still on just a regular pump insulin sensitivity, carb ratios, correction factors, you get those things close even, and things get better. And then once they're close, then you can kind of see them a little better, that it's not so wildly out of tune that you have to guess. I know that all sounds like Yeah, sure. That sounds easy. How do I do that? I mean, you know, I mean, I've talked about it a million times in the podcast, I think the way you do it is by getting your basil right? First, then start worrying about your meals, your ratios, and then start thinking more about different impacts and different foods correction factors from there, etc. Like, you do have to it takes time to get it straight, you're not going to just your doctor is not going to magically set your settings in the right spot. And even if they do, even if they get like, slot machine lucky, you know, the kid's gonna still grow or you're even as an adult or going to gain 10 pounds or lose 10 pounds or start walking more sitting more and then suddenly those settings aren't right anymore. It takes it takes paying attention. I think one of the most important things you said here's, you know, you got to take a little responsibility and, and put a little effort into it, you know, and not the kind of effort where you're just like I'm trying I'm trying but like focus the effort that that may lead to

Jeremy 1:09:37 a lot of educating yourself properly. Then understanding what is actually going on inside of your child's body and understanding what your body, their body, how their body is different than yours and understand how food digests differently in your body compared to the Here's the other chance to wear index calm do it. Scott's done it, I've done it lots parents have done it. Once you understand what it's supposed to look like, it becomes so much easier to do it yourself.

Scott Benner 1:10:12 And it's a little more relaxing to you know, we see 140 blood sugar for two hours doesn't feel like you've, you know, made some pain for failure. You just realize that that that happens to a lot of people, you know, everyday people would fully functioning pancreas is that are working perfectly. Still see elevated blood sugar sometimes. I mean, I had to eat pretty hard to get my blood sugar to 160. But I still was able to do it with a nerf pizza. You know,

Jeremy 1:10:40 I like crap. And that was not an issue with me.

Scott Benner 1:10:44 That's interesting. Yeah, I had to eat so much just to hit 161 time. Other than that, I was eating cereal like, like, I don't know, if you remember at one point, I took two different kinds of sugared cereal, mix them together in the same bowl and eat them. Yeah, my blood sugar did

Jeremy 1:10:59 I think it was what sugar smacks in Fruity Pebbles pops or

Scott Benner 1:11:03 something like that. And my blood sugar never even went up. I was almost disappointed by it. I was almost like, oh, you know? But anyway, geez, Jeremy, this is great. Like, how long do you think it took you to figure all this out put into practice.

Jeremy 1:11:18 Um, slowly over the course of about two years, I was about 80%. There over three years. I was like, completely relaxed. And like, it is what it is. Let's fix it move on. And was able to just look at things a lot smoother. Now there are those families out there, though, that have those Alpha moms that I love to death. Because whenever they get a hold of me, and I'm like, what do you do for a living and they're like, I'm an accountant. I'm a numbers person. Those people and literally, it takes me two weeks to figure them out. Explain what's going on. And they move right on their way. And they still have you know, under seven agencies to this day. I was that person. I am a type of person that while I was the kid that took the VCR apart and put it back together and it still worked missing three parts. I need to understand what's going on. I'm just one of those people. And I really dove into it. Especially the biology part of you know, what happens in what what why is his body so much different than mine? And why is it doing this? And understanding what the tug of war as you describe it? What can I do on each end of the rope to pull harder, pull less or get it right, you know, that's making small concise adjustments.

Scott Benner 1:12:57 Well, I tell you while we were talking, I adjusted Arden's basil. So I looked, I looked at that clarity report and I thought this, like this a one C that I've been okay with, which is her right around a six because she's making more decisions and, and choosing Bolus and things like that on her own. Without too much input right now, I thought, Oh, this is a reflection of that she's, I don't know that she's, you know, just kind of finding her stride with it. But then when I looked at that report, I thought, That's not fair. Because I have a lot of stability, away from food, that's still a little higher than I want it to be. So I just changed her basil from 1.1 to 1.2, just to see what would happen. And I'm gonna I'm gonna watch it over the next day or so and see if I, if I can find some consistency. Maybe we have incredible consistency. But to find it a little lower, would be interesting. And then I think that'll probably help with the food too. That's happening. The food impacts that are happening, like I said, between probably around 132 o'clock and six, seven o'clock in the afternoon. So I appreciate you making me think about it. So I get busy sometimes to get an amen.

Jeremy 1:14:06 Yeah, and I mean there are and that's that's just the basis of it. There are other things that I do that are more on the ninja level then. Then just the standard stuff. I don't expect people do that like stuff like understanding like, my son eats the same food at the same time every morning during the weird weekday. So what I literally do is I will just like you know, you would I purposely make his basil, a little stronger, about an hour and a half before he eats on a weekday. That's my Pre-Bolus That is not normal. I don't teach people that but the thing is, is like I know that at school, his lunches at the same time, every single day, right? Yeah, and you can't get this kid peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with a bag of chips, a Diet Coke and some strawberries. You just can't get that kid off of that meal. I offer him all different types of things grandma puts in different types of things. It all comes back to peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. This is what I want. Maybe he'll have some pistachios one day.

Scott Benner 1:15:20 So you're upping basil as a Pre-Bolus. Knowing that these meals, these exact meals are going to happen over and over again at the same exact Yes. Okay.

Jeremy 1:15:29 Because it's it's, it's literally, you know, knowing or expecting, you know, the day I'm saying I'm getting frustrated. But expect what you know is going to happen is going to happen. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 1:15:43 Yeah, I probably should have come up with a saying that was easier to say there. But well, yeah.

Jeremy 1:15:47 And then, like the only variable I have is after lunch and seeing immediately going to go outside and start chasing girls around, or is he gonna stand and do nothing? Yeah. Because Jesus, like, you like the end like, Dude, why are you dumping? And he's like, Oh, I ran around and chase girls at lunch. I'm like, Dude, if you're gonna do that cuts some carbs out of lunch. If it's 80, carbs covered 50 carbs. I don't think you can chase the girls all day long. Jeremy. I

Scott Benner 1:16:22 don't think he knows till he sees them.

Jeremy 1:16:24 Yeah, exactly. I know.

Scott Benner 1:16:27 That's amazing. I appreciate you doing this very much. Is there anything else that we should be adding to this thing? Because I'm going to ask you a question. At the end, I just want to make sure you've got out what you want to say.

Jeremy 1:16:41 No, I don't I mean that that's a pretty good understanding of control IQ and how I do it and how I teach people to do it. And how we how we adjust things to live a more, I guess, productive life while having great blood sugar's and not having to worry all day about diabetes and more.

Scott Benner 1:17:10 So okay, so if I were to come to you, and I'd said, Hey, Jeremy, I use Control IQ. By the way you do this out of the goodness of your heart, you help people?

Jeremy 1:17:20 Yeah. And once again, not an invitation to start messaging me Do not I got four families on my plate right now.

Scott Benner 1:17:29 It's about enough. Jeremy's gonna job you know. So, alright, so Well, that's very kind of you to help people. So if I come to you right now, and I'm like, Hey, Jeremy, listen, I'm on control like you. But I'm seeing, you know, spikes at meal times that aren't correcting for hours at a time. And I'm getting some lows overnight. What do you look at first, you just pull it

Jeremy 1:17:51 from them? Is the seven day AGP report and they're pumped settings. No kidding. And then I maybe ask 20 questions about how what do you normally eat? When do you normally eat? What insulin do you use? Is bedtime, consistent on a nightly basis? What kind of activity does your child choose to have? Or that type of thing? Or do they are they on their period yet? If so, is it regular? Just the normal questions that, you know, either your CDE or your Endo? Or

Scott Benner 1:18:32 should probably be asking Yeah. And if

Jeremy 1:18:35 they ask those questions for a very specific reason, because it paints a picture, at least in my head of when I look at that AGP report. What am I actually seeing? Am I seeing basil that's way off from a kid that has no activity and eats five or six times a day nonregulated in time and whatnot? Do I have a very protein based diet? Do I have a low carb diet? Personally, Damon, he eats whatever the hell he wants whenever he wants. Most I've ever Bolus for in a single meal was 543.

Scott Benner 1:19:22 Wow. 543 carbs.

Jeremy 1:19:24 Yes, you go and look at these damn milkshakes at this. This burger shop that's up here. And they're just gigantic and they're like $17 and they have waffles sticking out of them and everything else and you look at it, you start thinking and you you're like, yep. And then we came to 547 after staring at it for about 15 minutes. And that's what we did and

Scott Benner 1:19:47 how much insulin was that for him? No. Sorry about what

Jeremy 1:19:54 it was. His carb ratio was six or six point Five at the time. Um, let's see here. I can divide by 690. Some odd units.

Scott Benner 1:20:10 Wow. Did a 90 unit Bolus? Yeah. And he wasn't low. Nope.

Jeremy 1:20:17 You know, did I have to hit it again about an hour and a half later when I knew the fat was going to kick in, because I trusted that I knew what was going to happen is going to happen. Yes, I did. Do you think control IQ is going to be able to do that? Or Omnipod? Five or loop or anything? No, it can't. You have to be proactive. Do it. override the pump. All pumps can be overrated, whether it has an algorithm or not.

Scott Benner 1:20:41 Yeah, Jeremy, I gotta tell you, if I had if I had a diploma for this podcast, you'd be the first one to get it. It's amazing. I would not have the nerve to give that much. I don't think and I'm pretty ballsy about it. Wow. That's, uh, I'm assuming most of his bosses are not nearly that large. But yeah, but that's a great example of

Jeremy 1:21:07 he sees like 100 car Bolus maybe once every other week. Dinner averages are about 80 to 90 carbs. Lunch is at 90 carbs. Breakfast is 65 Every single day.

Scott Benner 1:21:23 Hey, Arlindo had Arden just had a lunch. That was a salad. And then she asked for a bowl of vegetables. She had rice, basmati rice, corn, steamed corn and steamed carrots. And it's a pretty big bowl of, you know, a vegetables. And I think we bolused I know it was I know we picked 45 for the vegetables, which was the carriage the rice and the corn. And then I think the salad was even 20. So she got like 65 carbs for salad and vegetables this afternoon. And her blood sugar still sticking at like 120. So we missed a little bit on

Jeremy 1:22:08 that. That's fine, though that that's low glycemic food. Do you understand that? But I mean, you didn't to me, you didn't miss? No, it's like in my brain. Like, the 140 is okay. But I'm sure once you saw that you're like sticking a little bit. You either let Luke get a little aggressive on the on everything or you told her to take a half a unit.

Scott Benner 1:22:33 Yeah, I told her to add. I told her to add three carbs to her last Bolus, which is something you do and loopy you can't do in in some of the proprietary algorithms, which I think is if

Jeremy 1:22:46 you can do it in control IQ, you can add carbs to an old but I, I prefer not to do it. I prefer a straight overwrite. Okay, because once again, I know what half of a unit is. Now if I put three carbs in. If it's been more than one hour, since the last correction, it's also going to correct his blood sugar. It's going to add extra, or it's going to take away extra depending on delta. So I would rather say okay, I'm looking at his line. It's fairly straight. I know I OB says he has two units on board, but it's not real. So I'm going to hit him with a point font, because I know what point by dots, right? If I was to put three extra carbs in, it may give him point two, it may give him point seven, it may give him point six depending on which way the arrow is going, which how his blood sugar is going. If he's had a correction in the last hour or not. If there's been an auto Bolus in the last hour or not, there's so much very variability there. I'm not going to deal with that. I know what half the unit will do and what the half the unit let him go do we override the pump all day long every day? No, no, I don't either. It is so dialed in that you don't have to. But when you do, we do.

Scott Benner 1:24:14 Yeah. Hey Jeremy. I have to tell you i i know that after you talk to somebody the first time you probably Converse back and forth with them and text and things like that and takes some days and weeks probably to to adjust it right down. I found myself wishing we could record every interaction you had with somebody just to see how it happens. I know we can't but yeah, it that's the piece that's missing is that somebody like you remind people you work in a motorcycle shop. Is that right?

Jeremy 1:24:44 Yes, I'm I'm the marketing manager of a Harley Davidson dealership. That's I actually well, I'm actually from two dealerships here in town. We own a sister store. I ride Harley's I own Harley's I have a beard You're a typical biker with weird ass hair cut. And I swear a lot, I drink Mountain Dew a lot. And I talk about how fat I am all the time,

Scott Benner 1:25:12 it turns yourself into a pretty damn good endocrinologist. So yeah,

Jeremy 1:25:17 I'm not gonna go into our Endo, not gonna say that you're not going to work me into that. But I mean, the other awesome thing is like, I may be all those things, I may be a pancreas to my son and a few other kids and whatnot. But to me, giving back to the community is what really matters. And like, I am also a voting board member and a marketing director for the Montana youth diabetes Association, which is after the ADA camp, left Montana and left all the type ones high and dry. All the volunteers that have been going to that camp for since they were kids said, let's get a camp going and get these kids back to camp in Montana. Very nice. And so we, I'm giving back that way I have to, because the community has given so much to me, and my son's health, you know, mostly, you know, the podcast and you and everybody in the group that I have to give back some way that I can.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:27 Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:26:29 I understand feeling like that. I think you're doing amazing stuff to on top of everything else. And I appreciate you coming on here and sharing this with people because there's just no, nobody really tells you what to do. They just give you the thing, and then it works out as well as it does. And then they call that good. And, and that's where it stays forever. So

Jeremy 1:26:48 just understanding how the algorithm works and, and how it doesn't work and when to step in and when not to step in. And it's time and experience and not just sitting on things and doing things and trying things and failing and succeeding. And you know, you do something enough, eventually it's going to work out. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:27:12 I agree. All right, Jeremy, I can't thank you enough for doing this man. I really do wish you would have named your kid Thanos because when you say his name, that's what I hear anyway. But that's not that's not your problem. It's mine. I'm glad he's doing so well. And that you're doing so well. It really is. It's a testament to what I mean what you can accomplish if you get good information and you want to put some effort into it. It really is astonishing. You know, I hope you're proud of yourself. Seriously.

Jeremy 1:27:43 I try Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:27:44 no really, man it's a it's really something that you've accomplished. So that boy might never know but I know and the people listening know so like I said I would I would send my first my first ever degree off from the podcast will go to you if I ever make one. Sounds good. Don't look for me to do that. That sounds like a lot. But I really I really can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this. Thank you very much.

Jeremy 1:28:09 Not a problem Scott.

Scott Benner 1:28:20 Well, first we want to thank Jeremy for coming back on the show and sharing what he's learned about control IQ. And then we want to thank us Med and remind you to go to us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888-721-1514 To get your free benefits check thanks also goes out to the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You can find out more and get started right now you can actually buy one right there at this I know you can buy one at my link contour next one.com Ford slash juicebox All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. What else should I tell you? Oh, there are many other episodes about algorithm based pumping. I have a list of them in fact, let me tell you what they are. Now what the hell we're all here together right? What do you do a big hurry to get back to your job? Let's just listen for another second. Okay, here they are. The first episode I ever done I ever done boy. The first episode The episode is going well. The first step the first start over. The first episode I ever did about an algorithm was looping it was episode 227 called diabetes concierge. Did one then called a loopy few months episode 252 Then episode three or four loop de loop Episode Three toe of Fox in the loop house part one episode 313 Fox in the loop house part two, Episode 326. We talked about the mini med 670 G, and an episode 420. Fox in the loop house part three, those are with Kenny Fox, all of those. In episode 537. Haley came on she's a tandem pump trainer. In Episode 601, we told the story of how I started looping. In an episode called Gina made me loop. Episode 620 was an exclusive interview with on the pod CEO called exclusive on the pod five interview. And of course today, in Episode 662, Jeremy breaks down how he uses control IQ, we're going to be talking a lot more about these algorithms in the future. So if you're enjoying these, go check out the old ones. And if you just got done with this and thought I'm not getting an algorithm to check out the Pro Tip series, and they will definitely help you pump without the algorithm. As a matter of fact, they'll help you pump with the algorithm too. But you know, I'm just trying to find a way to mention some more stuff in the podcast. I think you see what's going on. Alright, thanks again for listening. Your support means everything wonderful ratings and reviews pouring in for the podcast, downloads and streams are at an all time high. And all that means that you are sharing the podcast with someone else and for that I cannot thank you enough. It is the most important piece about how the podcast grows. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors better help, you can get 10% off your first month of therapy with my link better help.com forward slash juice box that's better h e l p.com forward slash juice box. If you've been thinking about speaking with someone this is a great way to do it on your terms betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox I also want to thank Jeremy for you know even though this is the best of He really put his heart into this one it's a fantastic episode that just people seem to love over and over again. So thanks so much Jeremy we should have you back sometime. And let me thank touched by type one for their sponsorship and support and remind you to go to touched by type one.org and find them on Facebook and Instagram.

#919 Weight Loss Diary: Two

Erika talks to Scott about the hollow feeling that came when food left.

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Scott Benner 00:00 Hello friends and welcome to episode 919 of the Juicebox Podcast many of you know I've been using we go V for weight loss and it's been working incredibly well takes away your hunger and your appetite and so much more than losing weight. It's really been terrific so far. But this thing I started noticing was a hollow feeling and emptiness. Like, like, I guess that like food, like the preparation of food, and I just have not been as involved with food as I was before even not to say that I was a lot in the past, but it felt like something kind of been taken away from me. And I wanted to talk it through with Erica So Erica Forsythe is here to mostly listen to me and then offer her insights. But I mean, this is kind of a week Ovie diary, I don't even know what to call this one. Exactly. Anyway, you know how it goes with our guy, start talking to her about something. And then before you know it, I tell her way more about my life than you guys should know. That happens again today. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. And some of you live in the state where you can hire Erica Erica forsythe.com. She's a really terrific therapist who actually has type one diabetes. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us Med, you can get your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us med us med.com forward slash juice box to get started art and gets her on the pods and her Dexcom is from us Med and you could too. Eric, I appreciate you doing this with me. Oh yes, this is probably going to turn into therapy. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 01:59 I don't know I am I am not your therapist.

Scott Benner 02:03 And I want to be clear that I know that I witnessed something that I thought would be interesting for people to talk about. I guess just for people who don't know, I began taking we go V for weight loss. Eight weeks ago, I'm on my eighth injections. So maybe it's seven and a half weeks ago, but about that long ago. For people who don't know we go V and ozempic are literally the same drug. They're branded differently. So they can be dispensed differently so that doctors can suggest using them differently. We go V is meant for weight loss. ozempic is right now I think for people with type two diabetes, although I'm hearing for people who have type one are using it and having a lot of great success with it. Anyway, the way my understanding about weego V was that it's a GLP one, and that it was going to impact me in a couple of ways, I was told that it was going to take my mind off of food and that it would help me feel fuller. This was the extent of how it was explained to me. I have heard people say that there is research at hand that is not complete yet. It says that it might signal your body to burn fat. When when you're losing weight, which, which makes sense to me. And I'm going to tell you a lot about it now. So to say that we go v makes you stop thinking about food in my experience I'm sure other people might be different is an understatement and a half. So I am never hungry. Like mentally, like I never think oh, I'm hungry or I should eat or like there's my brain is never telling me about food to the point where you have to actually remind yourself to eat on certain, you know schedules like are you just you just won't do it. Like it just it'll just never occur to your stomach doesn't crumble. Your brain doesn't say oh my god, I haven't eaten. Like I don't understand how it all works something about the hippocampus way out of my league. But oh my gosh, does it work? And there's been this sort of unintended consequence that I didn't expect. So I am not a food person to begin with. Like I don't run around going like oh, I can't wait to try this or Oh my favorite meal is that like I don't have those thoughts to begin with. But um I am feeling a loss is the only way I can put it. And the first loss is by the way in seven weeks. I am sad Been 13 pounds lighter.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 05:01 Wow. So that's a great loss.

Scott Benner 05:06 I'm starting to see myself now. Like in video, and I think I look different. Like you do. Yeah, it's crazy. But that's not the last I'm talking about a loss I'm talking about is I, I'm still eating. Okay, so I want you to understand like, but I got up this morning, and I got like a yogurt. I had like a coconut milk yogurt. I might be turning to the Jeremy. But But I found these these I was trying to avoid dairy because I wasn't sure how dare he was for me. Not really sure. But I found these coconut milk yogurts that are really good. So I had one of those this morning. And I ate like a half a banana. And I went out and did something. And I came back. And I've already recorded the podcast once today. And I had like 10 minutes in between that recording and you and I talking. And I thought I should eat something like anything like right now because I've not eaten enough food today. Right? So I went downstairs, I ate something very quickly. But not because I was hungry. And so cooking, and eating and hanging with people and watching television and going to the movies. And so many other things in my life are taking on a different flavor. That and it's confusing, because now I have all this extra time that I used to fill with food. And I didn't realize it. And it feels like something got taken away. That's why I put you on today. I don't know how to explain it. Because I didn't care about it to begin with. But if I sat down and watch TV at night, I probably would have like made popcorn, or done something like that. And now it doesn't occur to me. So it doesn't happen. And it feels it's a I don't know how to say it. It feels like somebody took something out of my life. And nothing. But that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that it didn't get filled in with something else. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay, tell me what I'm thinking because I don't know what I'm experiencing Oh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 07:24 I will say I do know, others who are have tried or On we go V or izembek and have reported the same thing where they forget to eat, because of all the reasons why you just explained and so they are having to retrain their body to eat. As I think you said, as you know, you need energy you need, you need fuel, you need nutrition, you need calories to function. And the other part of it, this loss that you're experiencing it, it feels like you had these big behaviors that were connected and associated with food. Like sitting down, watching a movie, going to the movies popcorn, or sitting at a maybe on a holiday, they their mother's day you're associated with sitting around eating a big buffet. And when you don't have that need or desire to eat, those two behaviors that were connected, are being separated. Right, there's a and it would be natural for your emote your body to think and feel. Wait, I used to do this and I met maybe you there was enjoyment? Did you enjoy those, those two behaviors connected to one another. And so you're feeling the loss because you don't have that, quote, enjoyment that you wants associated with one of those behaviors.

Scott Benner 08:53 It is exactly like my kids leaving. Like it's the same. It really is the same exact thing. Like there was this thing I used to do. And I enjoyed it, I guess like like the food I guess I never thought of it as an enjoyment. But I guess there was some enjoyment coming from it. And with my kids, I love being with my kids and I love like I even love just like when they have problems and we get there like work them out and like all that stuff. And now they just they're off on their own handling their own stuff. And it left me I think I've said this to you in the past, like I feel hollow a little bit that they're gone. But then I started recognizing that same feeling around eating. And I was like that shocked me. Because like, because I really am if you said to me, Scott, what's your favorite food? I'd be like, I don't know. Like I don't I can't answer that question. I've never been able to answer that question. I had a great lobster tail in the Bahamas wants but you know what I mean? Like, I didn't come home and like go I need to find more lobster. Or like like I just don't I didn't think of myself as a person who thought about food that way. But now I'm like, I almost feel like I need to find a hobby to take up the, whatever food was doing for me, and I don't even know how to put it into words, honestly.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:15 I wonder if you know, there, there are situations where people do use food, you know, as to feed some emotions sometimes, right that I put in quotes, like, if you're feeling sad, you might turn to your bag of chips. Because you know what's going to be there. And then you get the all the chemical responses, that tastes really good, you like the salt, so you keep going back. So it's interesting thinking about the switch, where people are trying to use willpower and go on a diet, and then they realize why I was turning to food when I was sad, or when I was bored, or when I was feeling empty emotionally. And then you're trying to use that willpower to not go to food and replace it with other behaviors. But it's interesting that you're not having to use willpower to interrupt that whether or not you're using food to meet some emotional need or not. That behavior is eliminated.

Scott Benner 11:14 But it has to be like I discussed with Jenny one time that I realized, like I grew up very poor. And like, you could never go to the store and get an extra thing. You got the stuff you were there the ingredients for the things you were doing. There was never any more than that, right? And that I told her that I realized that at some point, I was grabbing a bag of candy in the grocery store that I did not want, because I could afford to buy it. It was almost like a almost like a power move that nobody saw. But me. I was like, I can just buy this if I wanted to. Like like that kind of. And by the way, this bag of candy was like $2. Like, I was really broke. So I was like, Look at me, I can just buy a $2 bag of candy. You get me up to about $5. And you'll see how cheap I am real quick. I'd be like, No, thank you. But But then I would buy it. And then it would die. I'm like, Well, now I have it. I could hear my mom's voice in my head. We paid for this food, you better eat it. Right? And then I would open it. And then I can I can remember feeling embarrassed that I was eating it. Like if privately like I'm like, I don't really want this like I bought it like as this like kind of low key power move. But now I can't waste it. Because I paid for it. Even though it would be well worth $2 for my health to just take it and throw it in the garbage afterwards. So and by the way, wouldn't that be the biggest power move is to buy it and throw it away. Like I can afford to like just throw this out. But it never had those two conflicting problems. But my my reason for wanting to record about it is because I thought if this is happening to me, a person who does not think of food like that, like I like consciously do not like, oh my god, like what is this drug about to show the world. And more specifically, people with diabetes who are going to get, they're going to get given this drug a lot. Like I know right now it's not for type ones, but I'm already seeing type ones getting it, it's going to happen more, your blood sugar is going to be more stable on it, you're going to use less insulin because of it, you're going to have better outcomes with your health, you're going to lose weight, if you have if there's weight to lose, you're not going to be like, you know, a slave to food, if that's been your thing. If this stuff works for you the way it's working for me. And I thought, I don't know that I was not ready for this. Like I did not think like, if you would have told me for eight weeks ago, Hey Scott, like foods gonna get removed out of your life and you're gonna lose weight, I would have thought like, well, that's great. That's the whole story. And instead the story is like, I'm like, oh, no, like, what do I put in that space? Like, that's the thought that starting to come up like I need to put something valuable into this space. And luckily, I'm not like a I'm not a very compulsive person to begin with, or I might have already started backfilling it with something unhealthy for me. So I didn't want that to happen to people, I didn't want them to like, have that loss and then have nothing to replace it with. And not to expect it to come because like as you're losing weight, like just on the surface, you're like, This works like this is genius. Like I can't tell you I stand up I take a pen like this. I go click it clicks again. I record for a couple of minutes because I'm making a weak Ovi diary and I'm out and and then I wake up the next week and I'm lighter.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:44 It's amazing.

Scott Benner 14:46 Oh my God. And so what is it? I mean, I know you don't know like, it's not like you're my doctor. I'm not saying that but like, I'm not imagining this right, like something got taken away.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:00 Yes, and perhaps the maybe there wasn't as and I hear you say that you were not You're not a foodie, you didn't feel like you were using food and unhealthy ways you didn't have a, you know, disordered eating behaviors or patterns. You weren't not you know addicted to food or, or times of day. But yet with the elimination of the desire or, or physical symptoms I need to eat, there's this loss. So perhaps there I think naturally, food can be a social experience, right? People go out to dinner, you you cut people over, you invite people into your home, there is the social piece. I'm not sure I'm hearing that as a loss, but just more of these kinds of one on one experiences, or do you feel like you're having that as well? Having had

Scott Benner 15:53 that opportunity? Yep. Yeah. Okay, because my wife is also using we go via at the same time, so we're both like looking at each other. Like, don't forget to eat. Yeah. Yeah, I did go to visit Arden for a weekend a few weeks ago. And you go to a restaurant, I was like, I'll have a piece of yours. Or like, I don't know, like, I can't eat a whole thing. Like you have no idea how I got up yesterday morning, I took two eggs, I whisked them up, I put them in a pan with a little bit of butter, some mushrooms, and maybe three ounces of chicken. And I cooked them all together and put them in a wrap. And halfway through the wrap. I thought I cannot finish this. Like, like, like two eggs is now a crazy amount of eggs.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:42 That is That is crazy. Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:44 So the next day, I got one egg and I was like, I've learned my lesson here. I'm not going to waste another egg. And but it's just so when you go into a restaurant, I mean, you know, like my wife the other day, she's like, I'm gonna make a BLT. And I was like, okay, and I was like, I'll try a piece of bacon to see if I can eat it. And like, and like I had one I was like, that was good. And then I just, I didn't want it anymore. So I took one piece of bacon and broke it up and put it away. And then the next day, I made some shrimp for myself and I sprinkled the patient over top. I was like look at me being fancy. And and I just saw but even that like I sauteed six shrimp and crumbled a piece of bacon overtop of it, put some lettuce with it could not finish that trip. And it's just it's insane. Like you just eat and I go full now.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:35 So Norm so pre free would Gobi? Would you once you've started to feel that fullness, would you keep going to finish the plate because of like old patterns of like, I paid for it, I made it 100% get to eat it, you would have like kind of pushed through that little discomfort and kept going, I

Scott Benner 17:51 never would have thrown a shrimp away. No. Or I would have made enough to save half of it for another meal. And then that would have been okay with me, I would have been like, Okay, well, like I can eat half and put away the rest whatever else I don't want. But if I would have made six and they had to go in the garbage afterwards, I would have eaten all six of them whether I wanted them or not. And and I don't know how to explain it to people. But they say it makes you feel full, which is not. It's not. Not right. But it's beyond that. Like it just sort of, like I could have kept beating. Like I don't know how to explain it's not like you're it's not like there's actually a fist in your stomach and it's pushing you back up and you just can't do it. You're like you just get like I feel full. I don't want any more. But you could eat more. You might feel well afterwards, but you could do it like you could physically consume it. You just like for me, I just I can't find the I can't find the motivation to do it. I guess it's like it just it's not that important to me to say that you don't think about food, like that's absolutely true. Like it's it's three o'clock now here in the afternoon. i The one thing I've learned about we go V is that if I eat anything that really takes time to digest because it is going to it makes you feel full by slowing down your digestion. Like I need to eat dinner before six o'clock or I will absolutely have some sort of heartburn if I try to lay down even four or five hours later. So even that like you know how you're always telling people don't eat after six like don't eat at night like buy money but like yeah, I won't do that. But then you're watching like a movie and you're like well, maybe I will like like you to like make something with it. I can I know not to do that. That will make my stomach uncomfortable if I do that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:41 So you're learning to truly listen to your body. Yeah, what you can and can't tolerate.

Scott Benner 19:51 We receive Ardens Dexcom G seven and her Omni pods from us med us med.com forward slash G Spock's are call 888721151 for us med has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau. They are the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems. Number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash. They have the Omni pod five. They're the number one fastest growing tandem distributor. Oh my gosh, number one rated distributor index. com customer satisfaction surveys. How in the heck, over 1 million diabetes customers have been served by us meds since 1996. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. They care everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies the latest CGM like the FreeStyle Libre three, and the Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare and over 800 private insurers. Us med.com forward slash juice box. I got an email yesterday morning from us med that said I can't even tell you what it says on one second. See how easy this will be. Second, email us med Hi Arden. It says hi Arden. This is your friendly reorder email from us med dear art and your prescription is due for a refill, please use the order button below to place your next order and then just click on it. And that's that. Us med.com forward slash juice box. That's to get your free benefits check. Or you can call 888-721-1514 Get your supplies the same way Arden does from us met yet we'll see that's the thing is I'm afraid people will hear this and think, Oh, these people are using a drug to trick them into doing what their willpower should do. But it's not. It's not that. Like, I wish I wish people could understand like, I'm not I was not an overeater to begin with. Like, you know what I mean? And I always had the feeling. And it's what I went to my doctor and said, I always had the feeling like I don't think my body works correctly. You know, and now, it's funny, my wife and I were talking about the other day she heard another doctor talking about this. But this doctor was starting to kind of compare thyroid medication with the G LPS mean, meaning if you have a thyroid condition, your body might be making T three, but your body might not be taking it up properly. Or you know, so you might need like, you know, a, you know a pill that will just push enough in that your body gets what you need. And then you can Yeah, then your thyroid works correctly. What if I guess the question is like this is a lot of, you know, assumptions. But what if my body's not making GLP enough, or it's making it but it's not taking it up enough? Because all I can tell you is that my biggest takeaway I thought would be the weight loss. But it's not my biggest takeaway is I feel like my body's working correctly. I just didn't eat that much food before. Like I used to say, like, you've heard me say it. Like, I'm the fattest person who doesn't eat that you're ever gonna meet in your entire life. Like I just I don't take in that much food. And it just never made sense to me. And now my body appears to be going to where it like to where it's supposed to be. And it's not like I'm losing like, a ton of weight, like all at once. It's not like some big drop off. It's 17 pounds over eight weeks, which is I don't know, what is that? The two pounds a week? You know, it's a reasonable weight loss,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:44 right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:45 So I want people to hear that if you're having trouble, like, like, my wife talks differently about food, like she she says like, she's like, I have a food voice. She's like, I get up in the morning. And I start thinking about what am I going to eat? What sounds good. And as soon as I'm done eating, I think well, what's for lunch? Next? Yeah, then what's for dinner and blah, blah, blah. And she's like, I have like a like a food voice is the way I would describe it. I don't I don't have that. Like, I've never had that. But I I don't know that I'm eating any differently right now than I was before the we go V. Like maybe less, but not that much less. Even. Even here. I'll admit this. That's interesting. Do you want me to admit something? The other day I thought I'm going to test that we go like a friend. I want to make sure it's on my side. You know? Yeah. So I was out picking up stuff at the at the pharmacy, which of course makes me laugh because I bought a buy a box of candy at the pharmacy. So I bought a box of red hots, so I don't know what red dots are, but they're sending me like chemicals with sugar. Pretty much what I did.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:00 They're pretty good. Yeah.

Scott Benner 25:01 And I, in addition to everything I ate that day, I made I made certain to try to finish as money of the red hots as I could, I couldn't get through the whole box, but I ate way more than human beings should eat. And then I woke up the next day, 1.2 pounds lighter than I was the day before. And I thought, I'll be damned this stuff works.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:27 Because Give me some more better. Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:30 well, yeah, first of all, what I just learned is I can have red hots. We go V. But I don't mean it that way. Like, I don't mean like ejecting the thing. So I can do something unhealthy, and it won't count because I still ate the red hot. So I'm not unaware of that. But I'm telling you that before we go v, if I had a red hots overs, I would gain weight, like my body would just start to immediately retain retain water, like, immediately. And it's just not doing that anymore. So, but so I guess my bigger cause concern is I don't know what to fill the feeling with. And this, I think, is why I'm talking to you and not just somebody else, because I'm worried that I'll feel it was something that's not good for me. And I don't mean like heroin, I mean, like, emotionally not good for me, or something like that. Because, because I feel like there's more time in the day now than I know what to do with. That makes sense?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:34 Yes. So if, if you were my client, which you are not, I would encourage you to think about, so the behaviors that you identified earlier that you associated with food that you no longer are consuming food while you're doing that behavior. So like, let's say, sitting at nighttime watching TV, checking in with yourself, okay, what are you? Like, in that moment? What are you feeling? Are you feeling sad? Are you feeling empty? Are you feeling like you want to connect with your wife? Are you feeling like you want to connect with your children? Or your friend or a family member? Like, what is it and that this will take maybe some time? And, you know, over mass experiences of feeling like, oh, yeah, this is I used to eat, but maybe that was mindless. And I just did it, because that's what I do when I sat down to watch TV. But really, I'm wanting to have more, you know, connect intimately with my wife, emotionally, physically, or I want to have a conversation with my family, a family member, or I want to challenge my brain and stimulated and try something new. Maybe I'm bored. And I was eating because I was bored. So I want to learn how to knit while I'm watching TV or whatever. So thinking about in those moments, what is the emotion? first?

Scott Benner 27:59 Okay. All right. So when I feel the hollow, because it feels hollow? Yes. Right. When I feel hollow, I need to wonder why. And if I could have done this healthily as an adult, I probably wouldn't have eaten in those moments, either. Right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:15 And maybe, maybe that's part of what your awarenesses these these last two months is like, Oh, maybe I was just doing it. Because I did it. It was habit. Right. You were maybe meeting a need that didn't need to be met by food. But, you know, we all do it at times. Yeah. And so that it's this kind of this beautiful awareness in addition to the weight loss that you're experiencing, even though it's painful.

Scott Benner 28:37 Yeah, no, I I agree with you. I think that this is gonna sound strange, I guess. But I think the weego V is helping me understand way more than like my physical health, like so. Two days ago. This goes back a couple of weeks. Arden asked if we could go away this summer. Like we are not vacation people like we don't go away. We were my wife and I are like workers like we work too much. And Arden's like we should go away this summer. And so Kelly's again Sure we'll go somewhere. And then Kelly's like, Well, do you want to bring a friend and then it just started to get convoluted and before you knew it, like the three of us going away turned into like, well, maybe Cole could come to and his girlfriend and like next season like nine people like are trying to go on vacation. And it's not really something that like financially we should be doing right now. And so my wife kind of like put it in my lap the other day, she's like, You got to find a place for us to go away to and I was like, Wait, me was like, I didn't agree to this. But okay, so anyway, I spent the day kind of editing in my ears but on on another computer. I was just looking for a place where nine people could go and who could fit everybody's like needs as far as like scheduling and finances and like you know, all this stuff. And by the end of the day, I couldn't get it done. Like I just couldn't figure out how to do it. And I can't tell you that I am not normally this person. But I was so frustrated and upset. And I felt like I was letting everyone down. Like I don't this is not me like normally I wouldn't this would not be my takeaway from this. I had that adrenaline feeling in my arms. Do you know what that DNA mean? Like, like, you feel like you have to try to shake it out of your fingertips. Like, like, I was so angry, that it wasn't working out and disappointed in myself. And like, felt like I was letting people down. And so worried that I like all that stuff. And when I was going downstairs, I thought, tell Kelly, how you feel. Like start with how you feel. Right? And uniform. And I did it. And it worked. I was like, Oh my god. 50 years. Because I recognized while it was happening, that I could have gone downstairs and said, I can't believe you put this on me. I can't you know what I mean? Like, I can't believe like you said we could go when you fix it. You don't mean like, or that like one of the kids that was coming along, just kind of couldn't afford the same thing. Everybody else could afford it like, well, if we weren't taking that person with us, then we could like, instead of doing any of that I just came down and I said, I'm frustrated. I'm upset. I honestly feel like I'm gonna cry. And I feel like I'm letting everybody down. But I can't figure out a way for us to do this. And I think that just has to be okay. And then we had a nice conversation about it. And it was just okay. And I was like, Oh, man. Eric is not really my doctor. But I really think this is great that she's been coming on the podcast. But I was so like, like, aware of how Holloway feel right now because my daughter's in college, my son's moved away. And now I can't even figure out how to do this. And I have food is now gone too. And I so easily could have like lashed out about any of those things. And instead, I just I just like don't do that. It's not like I stopped myself. It's not like I was coming down the stairs and like some sort of murderous rage. And I turned I talked myself out of it on the way down the stairs. I stood up, I assessed myself. And I thought this is what's happening. Go be honest about what's happening. And I just didn't have any ego about it at all. Like I just said, I can't figure this out. And then when it was over. I wonder when it was over? Did I eat anything? I wish I could remember, I wonder if I grabbed like a snack or something I wish I could remember back to know if I did or not. But yeah, that would have been interesting. Oh, hell. All right. I almost did a great job on that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:11 Though, I was gonna ask you would maybe would you have it sounds like this is not your MO but free again? Pre two months ago, would you have not been in tune? You know, with that emotion, and maybe had filled it with either food or something else? Like maybe there's this, you know, clarity of mind when you're eliminating these other things that are you're stuffing yourself with other either food or other things?

Scott Benner 33:39 We'll see. That's interesting, because I'm starting to wonder as you were talking and as I'm reflecting over what I just said, if maybe this feeling that I feel is hollow, is really just good space. Does that make sense? Like maybe my life was too packed with things and like distractions and whatnot. And now I actually have some space. And maybe I shouldn't be lamenting the space. Maybe I should be like, happy that it's here. That's what I just thought while you were talking. Huh?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:13 Yeah, yes. Interesting.

Scott Benner 34:15 Okay. So maybe I brought you on under false pretenses. Maybe the hollowness is just awareness. Like maybe I'm just not being pulled 1000 directions. And because of that, I can kind of see, like, you ever hear people say like, my wife and I fight the most about the kids. Right, right. Like, because it all feels so dire. I just interviewed a lady this afternoon. Right? Who I could tell while we were talking that she just had this pressure. Like if she just made like 10,000 good decisions, her kid would turn out okay. You know what I mean? And I and that's a constant like, like that pressure hits you constantly. And now I don't feel that way like my kids are gone. There. Okay, they're doing well. And I'm not giving all my time off. Oh, wow, this is interesting. So I'm not giving all the time off to the thing I used to, I gotta find something else I love. Oh, I see. Okay. First, it should be made right. Right, first I take care of myself. And then I make sure I'm interacting well with other people. And then I get comfortable with the silence. That's it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:30 Pretty much. All right, that's it just just that easy.

Scott Benner 35:33 I usually pay you $40 For this next one. Which would not be right, because you're not licensed in my state. So we can't do that. But this is a podcast and that thing, you are not giving me therapy. But did I just did I walk through that correctly?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:50 I think you are creating the space that you have created. Intentionally but that also environmentally given the children are gone out of the house that has forced you which has been I know that's been kind of painful, right? Like you've been feeling bored or lonely. Yeah, and and then the elimination of the food that maybe was meeting some sort of need sometimes is now also removed, you now have all this space. And that has allowed you to feel maybe feelings that you hadn't really allowed yourself to feel or had the freedom to feel

Scott Benner 36:32 right. Yeah, I wonder. It is hard. I, I was standing at the sink in my kitchen last night. And I can sort of see out. But there's a road obviously it goes past my house. And a car turned onto my street is the exact make model year and color of my son's car. And I got all like fluttery inside I thought oh, Cole's home. And I realized he's not right, because he doesn't live here. And I was standing there. My wife was in the other room, I just out loud. I went off. And she goes, What am I calm, we're gonna cry. It's like, I was like, I know, I'm gonna cry now telling you about it. And I was like, damn it. And she's like, why I'm like, I just saw a car come around the corner looks like Kohl's car. And I don't know, like, I'll be alright. You know, I mean, they just kind of wiped tears way out of the corner of my eye. But I'll share with you. I just said that, like, there's not a lot of people listening, but I'll share, I'll pretend I'm just sharing with you. When my father left my mom. And I got really upset, I would usually get really upset overnight. And I would sneak downstairs and sit in the bathroom. And look out the window. And I would pretend that every car light that was coming towards My House was my dad coming home. And then I would let myself feel really happy until I realized that wasn't his car. And then I would do that until I felt okay that I could go to sleep. He used to do that a lot when I was little. So anyway, that's, that's why my son's car like hit me so hard, I think. Because I'm not an idiot. I know. He's not in New Jersey. And like I've seen other cars there. So I just think I was standing there. We were already talking about something. I was feeling vulnerable to begin with. Then I saw his car and then it hit me really hard. And then later I thought, Oh, I used to do that with my dad. Like, you know what I mean? So has everyone not pulled a family portrait out of the back of a closet and sat with it in the middle of the night by themselves? You really shouldn't get divorced unless you really have to. It's hard on people. Everyone oh my god, I just gotta tell you everything so everybody could figure out what's wrong with them while they're listening to a big Sears portrait in a frame. My mom just stuck it behind a bunch of coats. And I would get up in the middle of the night and put it on the sofa and sit next to it when I was like 13 years old. Oh, my God. All right, I'm fine.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:18 Wow. All right. No, I'd like to send you some referrals.

Scott Benner 39:25 You just keep coming on the podcast, I think it'd be okay. If

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:31 it was you're doing all the work. You're that's how you're reflecting.

Scott Benner 39:36 I'm you know what's truthfully like, step out of this conversation for a second. I started doing this with you thinking that it would help other people. And then it quickly I was like, that's gonna help me too. But like, I really was. I can't believe I'm doing the same thing that I bust people's balls about all the time. him, I'm helping myself to help other people, but never helped myself to help myself. Like, right like, and I always say like, don't they always tell you like, how interesting is the I'm such an idiot. I always say to you like, how interesting is it that people will do better for their diabetes, if it's for a pregnancy? Or because they want to be around for a child or they just met a guy, they think they blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, how could they not have done that for a decade before? All they had to do was the right thing for themselves? And then I sit here and do the same goddamn thing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:31 We all do. It's human nature sometimes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:36 All right. All right. I feel so actually, I think I'm a little hungry.

Unknown Speaker 40:47 Go eat something.

Scott Benner 40:49 So anyway, like to flip back to the week OB for a second, the only way you really know you haven't eaten, is you get I get like a little like woozy. Almost like I'm like, like, it's my body going yeah, we do not have enough calories right now. But in the past that would come up as hunger in my stomach, like a like a literal rumbling in my stomach, which which does not happen anymore. And I don't understand the hippocampus. Exactly, and what it does, but whatever's in that GLP one, like it just like, it is not functioning that way. It is not telling me like giving you the cues. Yeah, like dude, go eat. Like, I don't, I don't get that at all anymore. It's really something else. I used to do this thing. When I when I was worried about food. Like if I thought like, I guess this was an exercise about, about, like, trying to have self control. But I would like take, like, I don't know, like three minutes with me on a long car ride. And, and be like, don't eat those, like all at once. Because I am totally a person of eat the first meant that I'm definitely gonna eat the other two, and then they're gonna be gone, right? So I would bring them along with me and be like, don't eat them. And I would inevitably fail at that. Like, I was just like, I'd be like, I'll have one now and then one on the return trip. But then I'd have the one now in a bag. Oh, snap, let's just have the other one now. And I tried that the other day, too. And that was so easy to do. Like, just because, like, I just looked at them. Like, I don't really care about this. My wife's describing that, um, food is starting to taste different to her. Like not as appealing. Like still, like not not wrong. Like it's still taste good. Like it's supposed to taste but it's not hitting. Yeah, you know, by a friend of mine used to say the Kelly has a food face. They'd say like Kelly eats, she's never looked so happy, as good as was when that's happening. And that is. So I'm also trying to understand this because she started this after me. And her impact was slower. It probably because I didn't have as many issues with it to begin with. Like, it hit me pretty immediately. She's just starting to come into some of these feelings. And I wanted to try to understand them before she got involved in them because I think her path through them might be more difficult than mine. So, okay. Okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:18 is this this interesting? This is

Scott Benner 43:20 the secret of your job? Do you really not talk? Do you just just say, Oh, my God, that's insightful. Scott about that. Tell me more about that. Feel like me?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:35 Well, hopefully I do more. But I think you are you're really, you're able to unpack things that maybe sometimes I would need to add or ask different questions to help people get to where you got yourself.

Scott Benner 43:50 Yeah, no, I use you for cues. Like I look up to see how I'm doing. And I'm like, like, she doesn't want to say anything right now. Like I should keep saying what I'm saying. Like, that's how it like occurs to me like you make me want to keep saying what I'm saying. So it's an amazing skill, actually. All right, I'm just saying You're very welcome. I'm just gonna try to shift gears here for a second Erica force life.com. You can see people virtually in California where else?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:16 Florida, Oregon and Utah. Okay.

Scott Benner 44:20 Erica Forsyth back calm. Thanks. Yeah, thank you very much. I want to thank you for listening. I want to thank Erica for listening. And I want to thank us med for providing Arden with her Dexcom and her arm the pods us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 If you're looking for community around your diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast on Facebook is Juicebox Podcast. type one diabetes a private group on Facebook with 40 1000 members, type one's type twos Lada gestational doesn't matter to me what you eat, what kind of diabetes you have. You're welcome in my absolutely free, private group. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe or follow in an audio app like Apple podcasts, Spotify, and all the others. And of course, tell someone else about the program help it grow.