Scott Benner 11/16/23 Scott Benner 11/16/23

#1064 Parenting: Self-Care and Personal Growth for Parents

Scott and Erika talk about self-care and personal growth for parents.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1064 of the Juicebox Podcast

Hello, everyone, welcome back. This is another installment of the parenting series that still doesn't seem to have a name we just call it parenting. I guess that's the name really. Today's episode is called self care and personal growth for parents. It's with Erica Forsythe, who of course, is a she's a lifelong type one almost 35 plus years, she's a therapist, and you can visit her at Erica forsythe.com. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. Check out cozy earth.com and then use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% Check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes and then become a member. That's pretty much what I got for you today. You don't know forget that you want an AMI pod you want to Dexcom you want check out us med about G vo Capo pen use the links there in the show notes of this audio player. And they also exist at juicebox podcast.com. When you support the podcast using those links, you help to keep the show free and plentiful. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med now us med is where Arden gets her Dexcom and Omni pod supplies from but they have much more than that. Us med.com/juice box head over there now and get your free benefits check. Or you can call 888721151 for us med has everything you're looking for, and so much more. Hey, Erica, how are you? Hi,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:00
well, thanks. How are you?

Scott Benner 2:02
I'm good. We are doing Episode Three today of the parenting series. Today's task for us is going to be talking about self care and personal growth for the parents. Yes, I have to admit, if I put this list together on my own, I wouldn't have put this in here. So I'm very interested in why you put it in.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:21
I think it's important as we've reviewed so far, you know, the different parenting styles. And then in our most recent episode, we discussed communication, positive communication, and the effectiveness of you know, conflict resolution, I think it's good to kind of pause and we can really get down on ourselves as parents. And I think it's important to take a pause on the education and information and say, we also need to take care of ourselves in this process, as we are thinking about, Gosh, I really want to grow this area as a parent or gosh, I could really improve in how I communicate with my partner or my child, we also need to look at ourselves and say, gosh, we need to take breaks, we need to implement either small or large ways to practice the self care.

Scott Benner 3:11
Okay. This is with a diabetes diagnosis in your life and without both right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:18
Yes, yes. Abs? Oh, absolutely. But it

Scott Benner 3:21
does become more in your face. I think once there's diabetes, I would actually think whether you're a parent of a child with type one, or if you had diabetes yourself, I think it kind of ramps up at that point. And, and someone shared a personal anecdote with me recently, that I'm gonna I think I'm gonna bring up in this episode. But the first thing I think is for me, you know, I had a baby when, I mean, I wasn't really super young, but I wasn't probably as old as I wish I was When Kelly had call. And then Arden came, you know, a handful years later. What I can say is that when you're young, and you'd have that you still have that, like I can do anything feeling and you're never tired, right? And doesn't matter what you eat, it doesn't seem like and you know, your body just chugs along, and then you get thrown into that kid thing. You attack that. I mean, I attacked it with the same kind of like, perspective of like, oh, we can do anything and bah bah, bah, but it kicks your ass pretty quick. You know, and the first thing that gets you I mean, what are your remembrances of having small children? It's, you know, what's the first thing that like kind of took you from your baseline just down a little bit and you didn't rebound again?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:36
Oh, lack of sleep. Yeah, for sure. So I

Scott Benner 4:39
was gonna say too, and the thing people tell you while you're pregnant, get your sleep now. Yes. Yeah, that's like a little falsehood because Pete I think people think you can bank sleep a little bit. Yeah. Like, I'll sleep for a year and I'll be good for three years and, boy, it doesn't work like that. It takes a couple of nights. have broken sleep, and you just your eyes get crossed, you know? And then you're off to the races right? Then you're, then you're not judging things, and making decisions as your best self anymore. And you don't know it after a while that I think that's kind of the scary part, honestly.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:19
Absolutely lack of sleep, you then you think you have adjusted, and that becomes your new normal, and then adding in, if you have a young child, infant, toddler young child with who was diagnosed with diabetes, then that obviously compounds it. But I think we do we kind of trick ourselves thinking, Okay, I'm just I'm going to be tired, I'm gonna function this way. And you do adjust and adapt. But then you it's like, you know, when you were sick, you have a cold for so long, and then all of a sudden, you don't have the cold. You're like, oh, my gosh, I forgot what it was like to not be sick. Yeah, I think the minute you start to recoup some of that sleep, you start to realize, wow, I've been really irritable and not being able to make decisions correctly or speaking. The way I want to, I

Scott Benner 6:06
sometimes think that when people think they've adjusted, what they've really done is lowered their bar. Right? Because anything that doesn't end with you falling over dead, you think you've adjusted, like, I can do it. You ever hear people say, I only need three hours of sleep a night? And I'm like, that's not right at all.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:24
I mean, maybe some people do. But I certainly need more than that. Yes.

Scott Benner 6:28
I think fairly, like, you know, believable science tells you you need I think at least six, right? Like some people are better. And some people work better 678 Some people like, but when you start telling yourself, I'm the one who doesn't need to sleep. You are. I mean, I did it. I'm speaking from personal experience, you know, the diabetes, especially in the beginning, without the monitoring that exists now, you know, you're up at all hours of the night. And you know, I mean, if you have a CGM now, and you can think of what that feels like, when it's just warming up, and you're like, I don't know what's happening. That was 24/7. You know, you grew up like this and live like this for decades. But that's 24/7 As a parent, where you're laying in bed thinking, I wonder what her blood sugar is now. And then you go check, and then you go lay back down, and then you realize, I wonder what it is now? And what is it in 10 minutes? And is it rising or falling, and then you try to sleep and that's, that's a tough, tough thing to do. So you don't you don't sleep to situations you hear people say all the time, like I made their blood sugar high, so they could sleep and blah, blah, blah, like you get into those situations where you catch a couple of hours, obeying, you never really hit that deep, that deep sleep, and I just for me, I think it alters who you are. I just I really do. So. So then the problem is, how do you fix that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:51
Yeah, so I think just, before we move into that, I think the difference with as we were talking, remembering, you know, being a parent to an infant or a newborn is, you also can tell yourself, okay, this is temporary, you know, at some point, your child is going to start sleeping through the night. And then obviously, the difference with a parent with type one, treating your child with type one is, you know, they're never really going to feel like it's never going to end. And in that space is where the self care needs to kick in. Yeah,

Scott Benner 8:23
and for good reasons, too. Because if you keep spiraling, if the baby, the quote, unquote, baby is now the diabetes, and the feeling is the baby's never gonna grow up. So it's always gonna be an infant, it's always going to need me in the middle of the night, weird times, if that's your expectation, and it keeps creating bigger and bigger deficits for you. And I mean, like physical and mental deficits for you, then you are in the worst position possible to figure out diabetes so that the baby can grow up and it can get more manageable for you. That's Yes, you don't I mean, like, that's the spot where you have to, it's where you have to at some point, say, I have to give a little bit of now away for later. Does that make sense? Like, like, we're either going to stay in this hell forever, or I'm going to find a way to get some sleep, find some clarity, figure this out, so that this isn't always happening. Yeah, I think that's it. But how do you make that leap when it feels like closing your eyes? is ignoring something that's potentially dangerous?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:26
I think we could answer that two different ways. The first acknowledging that is, is what is keeping you up. Let's let's make the assumption that your child's management is in range and things feel in control. What is keeping up as the anxiety or the you know, as we talked about in the last episode, you like that mental load if you're thinking about all your tasks that you did or did not complete that day and what you need to do the next day and then you're wondering if your child's safe. If that is piece is what's keeping you up? Then I would, you know, encourage you to look at okay, is it? Do you need to find support? Do you find need to find a mental health support? Do you need to find support groups? Are there other outlets that you can tap into to help kind of alleviate some of that burden that you're carrying? And maybe the first step is saying to yourself, I'm never going to finish the task list. I'm never going to check it all off. Maybe it's reaching out to your peers, to your community, to your family members. I think that we could go into that path. And then the other path is, well, is it because you aren't you haven't found the right way to manage your child's diabetes? And it does feel, you know, uncontrollable, scary, confusing the way it does for a lot of us for the first weeks, months, years. Yeah.

Scott Benner 10:52
Well, I know for sure, the wrong thing to do is to yell at each other. Yeah. But when you get that, that anxiety bubbles up inside, and diabetes can hear you so you can't yell at it. You pretty much can't yell at your kids. But but you know, I have to say though, I um, I did a talk this weekend with a roomful of children, like from like, they were like five years old to I think like 13, or 14, it was really great. And some of them, some of their parents stayed and some of their parents didn't. And I made this announcement, the beginning. I'm like, Listen, this is not really meant for you guys to be here. We want the kids to speak freely. So you know, get out. And but some people stayed, which was fine. But some of the kids still had the nerve to speak up in front of their parents. And that was interesting. Because I asked them, hey, what do your parents do that you wish they didn't do? And one girl said, they yell at me about my diabetes. And like, her mom was sitting right next to her. And I was like, this kid needs help that badly, that she was willing to say that out loud with her mom and her mom, like, I felt bad for you. Because then she spoke up and said, You know, I, you know, I don't mean to do that. And, you know, I was like, Oh, this is good. But so they they were talking and and that was it. Kids said either I get yelled at for it. Or it sometimes makes they make it feel like it's my fault. And those are? Those are tough, right? Because I figure the yelling is just the the anxiety, the adrenaline from all this just boiling over?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:28
And maybe fear. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 12:31
And then the even the blaming thing is, I think I get that I think it's like, you know, I've done everything I know how to do and it still went wrong. So it wasn't my fault. Like, it's almost that pressure of like, I don't want to be the one to cause your health issue. And there's no one else to blame. So to alleviate your own burden, you push it to somebody else, you know, meanwhile, it's it's diabetes fault. You know, it's not, it's no, it's no one's fault. Really. It's difficult. But anyway, the parents like, talked about it. And it was, it seemed good for them. You know, it was it was nice. And I think about that now, while you're talking because this is what's going to happen. I mean, I lived through it. There was I can remember very clearly, this moment, it's in the middle of the night. And Arden hadn't had diabetes for long, she was like really little still. And I can picture us in our old kitchen with her sitting on the counter. We've tested her blood sugar, it's low. And my wife thinks that one food product is the way to bring your blood sugar up, and I think it's another one. And we get embroiled standing on a freezing kitchen floor in our underwear at three o'clock in the morning, yelling at each other about which one of these things is going to save our life. And we're reasonably intelligent people. And that was a moment I look back on and I think, oh my god, like what was wrong with us? Like, who cares? They just give her something. And but it was that it's that feeling inside? Like I've had the answer, like the US may question what's gonna save Arden and an answer popped into my head. Same thing happened to Callie. And now we think we're saving her life. And anyone who disagrees with us is disagreeing with saving Arden is how it felt. And then we argued with each other in front of our kid who had a low blood sugar. And the floor was cold. I remember the floor being really cold. Yes, so well

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:31
and layering on, you know, all of the just exhaustion you're carrying. It's the middle of the night you guys are fatigued, you probably you know you're under stress. And now and now we're going to try and have a reasonable conversation when Arden just needs you know, needs something

Scott Benner 14:47
while there's a ticking time bomb next to you. Yeah, that's how it feels. Yeah, it's going tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. What's that I'm gonna blow up. I'm gonna blow up do the right thing. Cut the right wire is kind of how it feels, you know? And I don't know how much good parenting, I would have had to go through what my wife would have had to go through or how much counseling we would have needed for that not to happen that night. I have no idea like, didn't you mean? Or if it was fader complete if it was always gonna go down like that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:13
I have no right. i Well, I think part of it is being able to maybe say not in the moment, but to say later, like, you know what, this probably is very normal. This is a very normal experience for parents. Particularly how old man that was. You guys were new newly into it.

Scott Benner 15:29
I mean, Arden was like, still two years old. Okay. And that makes me nine to 17 years younger than this. I think, is that how math works? I mean, I was like, I was almost 20. I was probably like, in my early 30s.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:46
Okay, and she was just a couple months into it. Yeah. Is there a diagnosis? We didn't

Scott Benner 15:52
know what the hell we were doing? Yeah. Yeah. They oh, by the way, it's like, hey, like, your blood sugar is low. And then nobody panics anymore. We're just like, we're just, like, take care of it. But that's experience right over and over.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:05
Really? I think the piece of you know, the parenting, as I talked about a lot with parents who are whom I work with is diabetes can bring to the surface, all those issues that maybe we thought You thought there had been, you know, you had addressed or communication styles that it just brings it all to the surface. And that's okay, there's is not there's not shame, and that that's just how chronic illness in a family can affect you. And so just even acknowledging with your partner, wow, we are this is really hard. And and yes, we, we can understand why we're disagreeing, and we're arguing, and how can we like to kind of like normalizing it for yourselves. I think it's part of the process and not, you know, we're not arguing because you're arguing, to say, well, we're arguing because this is really stressful, and we're really tired, we're really stressed. And a lot of people are probably doing this as well, in our same shoes.

Scott Benner 17:05
There are times when I think of the rate of divorce, for example. And I think that it's sort of random, like unless there's something like really crazy going on, you know, if people are being abusive to each other or something like that, like taking that stuff aside, just taking two regular people who are together. I think that everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox, or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM, like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514. Or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arden does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the show. Most of us are not brought up in a way where we have good conflict resolution. I don't know that we're good at those things, generally as people, so sometimes I just think it's like a roll of the dice. Like how many bad situations you get in? And is there enough time in between them for a cleansing of your palate? And are people whose relationships fail just in more of a rapid fire problem than other people? Like is it kind of that random? Like, have you ever had that feeling? Like if you've ever been in a disagreement with your spouse and thought if only that wouldn't have come on television just now or we could handle this next week, but not today? We just had that thing three days ago like you don't do you know what I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:48
Yes, yeah. Yes, there's a some moment or one look or one phrase that you hear or someone else says can just trigger you both just enough to get you into that space and you're like wow, What if I had just driven home five minutes later, you know,

Scott Benner 20:03
Oh, no 100% You're just and then that feeling of, if only this would have happened two weeks from now even. And we were in a calmer place like this would have been okay. But then what happens when it's diabetes, and it's a low blood sugar at two o'clock in the morning, followed by a high blood sugar at 7am, followed by a spouse who doesn't want to Bolus and one does want to Bolus and like, and these things keep happening every three hours. And then you hear people get divorced. And you think well, yeah, that makes sense. They're in constant conflict. Right. I don't know that. That means that you're bad at conflict resolution. I think it kind of could mean that it's difficult to I don't it's just difficult to be be shot at constantly like that, you know?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:43
Yes, John Gottman, who has done a lot of research in relationships, he's a psychologist, I'm trying to try and pull up the stat really quickly. He has, he says that we need, like 90 positive interactions for every negative. And that could mean a look, a gesture, a positive, you know, sentence. That's huge. But I know that's not the right number, but it's the amount it's a massive amount for every negative because we know we're gonna have these negative interactions with our partners, right? So I will.

Scott Benner 21:21
So you're saying that, you know, my bedroom, and I see my wife shoes all over the place. And I think, why does the person need that many shoes? And why don't they put them away? I now have to have 90 Good interactions with my wife to make that feeling go away?

Speaker 2 21:35
Yes. Something suddenly around that number.

Scott Benner 21:39
And when she looks over me and things, like I ruined my life by marrying me now 90 Good things have to happen to me. Yes, yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:50
Maybe next time I'll have the right number, the ratio, but it is I mean, it is it's it's pretty significant. He can predict with all of his research, he's done amazing things in the in the research of relationships and marriages. You know, there's like, predictive factors leading to divorce. But one of the things that is preventative factor is this ratio of positive to negative interaction. I

Scott Benner 22:14
love that you said that it made me feel like I noticed something that was true. I was like, Cool. Maybe I'm right. Again, I'll share this one. I think this is a tried and true marriage. Valuable marriage technique. Look for someone you can both be mad at at the same time. I love being on the same side of an argument with my wife. There's nothing better than when she says something. And I'm like, oh, that does make me upset too. I immediately get next to her. And I'm like, you and I were in this together. I hate that person to. And then I honestly think I know that sounds. Maybe it sounds ridiculous. I honestly think that it helps every once in a while just to be kind of simpatico on something. You know what I mean? Like something that's in arguable, like we're right. By the way, I don't know if we're really right. Doesn't really matter. Right. But we're right. Those people are clearly wrong. This thing is definitely wrong. Whatever. We agree we're on the same team. I think it's like a it's almost like team building a little bit.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:10
Yes. Well, it's absolutely because you think about you feel bonded next year teammates when you're competing against someone on the other team, right? And the goal is to win. So it's a similar experience, the emotions that you experience in that that connectivity, okay, my wife's got my back in this, she's got mine. We both feel the same way on this topic, right?

Scott Benner 23:32
I go so far down this road, because I think that in the moment when these things are happening, first of all, you do not plan for your kid to have diabetes. So this stuff is going to come at you a million miles an hour, if it happened to you the way it happened to us, our life was going along pretty well. Like we were savers, and planners a little bit, we were moving in a direction on purpose. You know, like, and we were growing our family, and we were growing our you know, our home, and we were doing the things that you know, you know, you're supposed to do in that Norman Rockwell painting. So we were on the way to those things, then all of a sudden, somebody's like, hey, that kid's pancreas doesn't work anymore. And this is insulin. And if you use too much, you'll kill her. And if you don't use enough, you're gonna kill her later. And we were like, Oh, great. I was just cutting the lawn last weekend. You know what I mean? Like I didn't I didn't know about all this. You don't have time to say, Oh, I hope my blah, blah, blah skills are intact, because I bet you are going to be yelling at each other six months from now in the kitchen. And it just it hits you so quickly. It hits you quickly and slowly at the same time. I don't know if that makes sense or not. But it's like a drip, drip drip, almost like a torture. And at the same time it pulls you over so you get knocked back. And then every time you try to stand back up again. It just feels like that slow drip is pushing you back down. And like you said earlier, after a while you don't notice it happening. And that's really when you get to it. So what Help they get a safe word. That's the wrong for racing. But but you know, like, maybe somebody should maybe you should get together with your spouse and say, hey, if something goes off the rails, we need to be able to say something that the other we both agree we'll just stop. Does that work? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:14
Yes, I think it will works. I know, it works really well with parent and child like if they if you both find yourselves, you know, looping through the same argument to have that, that safe word or kind of a cue word, then that you're telling your brain and your child or your partner's brain? Oh, yeah, we're doing that thing again. Let's say the word and sometimes it can make you laugh. It could be silly, like, you know, Snoopy, um, I don't know, like something that just interrupts that pattern for you to step away. And then you guys can then you can regroup. I think, yeah, when you're finding yourselves in that pattern, because you're exhausted and you're stressed and exhausted, doesn't even describe it right? That the fatigue level is so significant, it's hard to even notice when you're in it. Yeah, when you are looping through, I think that the safe word and then know what you're going to do next is also really helpful to step away to take your deep breaths, to say, hey, let's regroup in 30 minutes or tomorrow. And sometimes you don't even need to necessarily reconnect, you both are just acknowledging, oh, yeah, we're doing this thing again. Because while what we're doing is really hard, and I think the first, the first step, even in self care, besides all the things that, you know, we've always we talked about, is really just the self compassion piece of, okay, how can you be compassionate towards yourself, doing something that is so challenging day in day out, and then offering that compassion to your partner as well. But that said, I just I like that, you know, self care is self compassion when there's so much pressure that you place on yourself as a parent to a type one child, that is just it's hard to bear.

Scott Benner 27:05
Yeah, and I guess, so you can you can seek this kind of care or do things for yourself? I mean, in your private time, like, is it a thing you should do on your own? Do you mean, like, do I? Do I do it at work? Do I do it in the car? Do I do it while the kids are snapping? You know, like, where do you? Like, if you figure out something that would help you? I don't know, I don't even know what that thing would be like a thing that would alleviate your stress or anxiety for a little bit? I mean, how do you implement it into a day that already seems very full to begin with? You know, what I mean? And how do you know yourself well enough to decide what that thing should be?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:46
Those are great questions. Yeah. If you find that you are constantly feeling like, you know, the, the mantra of, I'm never, not a good enough parent, I'm not a good enough. spouse, I'm not a good enough employee. I'm not a good enough homemaker or I'm not, you know, all anything you can fill in the blank. If you if you resonate with that, that is an indicator for you to say, Gosh, I'm being really hard on myself. There's something in your self talk and narrative that you are trying to perform, and perfect, and produce something that is unattainable. Because as we know, perfect management is unattainable. And being perfect, in general is debatable. But if you're living under that pressure, and feeling like gosh, I could never I'm never gonna get my list done. I'm never going to, you know, do all the things I want to do, then you're just that's that credit, that self criticism is hard to carry, that also creates emotional fatigue and physical fatigue and stress. So understanding and clueing and kind of checking in with yourself, how do you how do you talk to yourself? In those moments, when you're driving to work when you're, you know, doing the dishes when you're typing at work? What is that voice that you hear? Yeah. And then the next step is to try and integrate some of that self compassion, like, you know what I'm doing the best I can. I'm, I'm working really hard. And if that feels like that step is can be hard to do independently. And so maybe that is when therapy can be helpful or support groups, or share kind of unloading some of the burden if you can, to your your partner or to your family.

Scott Benner 29:32
You just let somebody else tell you hey, I've been through that. It's, you know, it gets better or don't be so hard on yourself that kind of stuff.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:40
Yes, I mean, normalizing your experience. I think it can be helpful for someone to say don't be so hard on yourself, but sometimes you can even receive that as

Scott Benner 29:50
Oh, look, you're doing this wrong. Yeah, yeah. It's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:53
further of God kind of further. Shame way to go.

Scott Benner 29:55
You can't handle that kids blood sugar, and you don't even know how to talk to yourself like you feel like Don't cry. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:01
But I think people mean, well, when they're trying to say like, like, You're doing a great job, you're doing the best you can don't be so hard on yourself. That's all that's helpful and someone's trying to cheer you on. So if you're saying those things, I'm not saying that's, that's sure, bad. But to receive that can be challenging. If you haven't learned how to say, You know what, I am doing the best I can, and I am doing a good enough job. And maybe it's simply starting off with I am good enough period, to

Scott Benner 30:30
loop back to the first episode about the different parenting styles, which parenting style would have prepared me better for my daughter having diabetes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:42
But like as you as a child having parents, are you

Scott Benner 30:46
what, what could my parents have done? That would have made me a more reasonable human being? And so when this thing happened to me, maybe I would have said, I guess it doesn't matter if she drinks the milk or the juice,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:58
probably the authoritative, right? Where you are giving space to the child, there's, there's these boundaries, there's expectations, there's rules and consequences. There's also space for mistakes. Okay? And, and letting the child learn from some of those mistakes, that you're not going to be perfect. And that you can you know that within that you're not letting them make mistakes, you're not being permissive, but you're also allowing them to learn from like, you're not going to be perfect. It's,

Scott Benner 31:35
it's interesting, isn't it? That the way my parents parented me, for example, I don't think by any stretch of imagination would have been something somebody would have told you to do in a parenting manual. And yet, the mix of who I am and the experiences I was went through, led me to be a person who's a reasonably good parent, but not until I met my wife who fine tuned the whole thing at the end, right? Like she she took, like, she took what they put out in the world, me. And she was like, that's close, but not quite right. And then you know, and then she was like, here's like this, this Don't yell, stuff like that. And now I'm a I'm a, I'm a very good parent now, like, I just I am, I'm 52. I mean, I couldn't actually raise a baby anymore. But if you gave me one, I think it would turn out really great. So if I could stay alive long enough to handle but I'm. So there's this weirdness, because there's something about the mess that my life was, it turned me into this. And at the same time, I sit here and I say, Well, if people would have just done a better job, maybe I would have gotten to it sooner. But then also, there's part of me that thinks that maybe I never would have gotten to it. Like maybe that tornado is part of how I ended up where I am. And are we really trying to be perfect? Or fit a mold? Or are we just maybe we should just be looking at some simple truth. Like we shouldn't be yelling at each other. Don't blame people for things don't pressure people. You don't need to be perfect, like, just like those Simplicity's, I think, are what lead to a reasonable human being coming out of your house as an adult. But I could be completely wrong. And if my kids end up shooting somebody in the street, you guys will be like that guy was definitely wrong. But right now, right now, they Eric is like, Don't use such rough examples. Let's just say it, they're found selling heroin. How's that? Oh, my gosh. So what else we made? Nevermind. My kids are on a good path so far. I'm comfortable with where they are. And I think if I were to like disappear today, they'd be all right. Like, it's sort of like the best thing. I mean, that was my hope, right, that they'd be able to take care of themselves reasonably. But I don't think it's because I followed an exact parenting style. I think it's because I honestly, I think it's because we follow common sense. But I don't know how to teach that to people either. You know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:01
what common sense and also a sense of safety, security, that they are loved. You want your child to know that they are loved, for who they are not for what they do. And that sense of secure attachment where you probably really, I imagined focused in on because then you didn't necessarily have that growing up. And so you, you did evolve because of your childhood and who you want it to become as apparent ends up

Scott Benner 34:31
being a blend to like one of the best ways I can explain this is that if I talked to Arden before a softball game, I would say I tell her I loved her. I would tell her doesn't matter if you get hit today, you know, just do your best all that stuff. And then I'd leave her with get out there and make those girls cry. Because Because if they're not crying when this is over, we have not beat them sufficiently. Now, did I really want them crying? No, she knew I didn't really mean that like that. But there was this like, there was this In this place of comfort and safety, you're okay, I love you, no matter what happens, none of this matters. It's a softball game, blah, blah, blah. But if we're gonna get involved in it, go out there. And do your best. Yeah, like, really try it. Like, don't just show up here for fun. Like, let's try to kick their ass if we can. And even with that, you know, I say all the time. Using sports again, as an example. They say that the they say the statistics say that the year my son started playing little league when he was four or five years old, that 4 million other American boys started playing Little League baseball that year. Wow. And that when those boys went to college, a slightly over 9000 of them went to play college baseball. Of those 4 million kids. Wow. That's the 123 and JUCO. That's four levels of college baseball. And I watched those other guys whose kids did not make it to college to play baseball. I watched how they talk to their kids. And it was, go get it, kill it. You can't fail, blah, blah, blah, I would tell my son over and over again, this is just practice, like everything is practice. Why do we play baseball, so you can play more baseball, you want to get you want to get better, so that somebody still wants you on their team next year. Like that's what you're doing. None of this matters. It's all meaningless. And I never told my son, I never told my son that baseball mattered. Until the first time he showed up at a college recruiting thing. And I just told him in the car, I said, It all matters now, like, if you want to keep playing baseball, you actually have to go do the thing right now. And he went and did it. And then he went to college and play baseball. But it was I'll tell you right now, if you go back 15 years before that, and get all those dads together. And I would have said that's how I'm gonna parent this, it would have laughed me right out of that room. The only one that went to play college baseball in this town, in his age group. So I don't know. He also was talented and athletic. And like, don't get me wrong. I didn't just like, he was like this little chubby kid. It wasn't all you you could do it, buddy. But yeah, it wasn't. Because I know plenty of kids who love baseball, that they can't hold the bat. Right. But that's not that's You can't talk them into getting there. But I do think that as an, as he's become an adult, I see that in him still. Like that he knows that the thing I'm doing is the thing I'm doing. It's not. It's not the end all be all, like this doesn't have to go perfectly? And I don't know, to me, like, those are the little things as your parenting. Those are the important ideas to pull out and to use repetition for. And I think you can also offer that back to yourself as a parent. Yes. Right. Which is that, you know, whether or not my kid comes home today with an A on a test, or, you know, got in trouble for cursing and social studies. Like this is not, this wasn't the goal. You don't I mean, like you're not trying to be the prettiest girl on eighth grade is kind of what I'm thinking like, there's you should have a long term view of what you're trying to accomplish and and see that the small moments while important, none of them rise to the occasion of needing to be judged over. I guess. And I think that about diabetes to you're still alive, you're doing great. You know, there's always time to learn and grow and get better. So you can play again tomorrow. I guess that's what I think that's what I'm saying.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:30
And but you're in a position now to be able to look back and reflect. And I think and then when you're in it you I imagine you also had those moments of like, oh my gosh, this feels really confusing or scary. And I'm very stressed out that anxiety

Scott Benner 38:48
like, Should we be one of the people who throws a picnic after a game so everybody likes him? Well, that makes sure he plays like that crap that you're all worried about right now. So unimportant. And but I get it like it popped up in my wife hit me one time, she's like, You should coach a team. That's the only way he's gonna get a fair shake. And she, by the way, in the moment, she wasn't wrong. But I said, I don't think that's good for him. So let those other three guys go out there and create horrible relationships with their sons to win a baseball game and a field in the middle of nowhere that nobody cares about. Like, I'm not I'm not trading our relationship for that. You know, but yeah, the the hindsight is helpful, because the pressure is immense while you're in it. And I do think that that does apply to a blood sugar. One ad, oh my god, I messed it up. This is the end. We're never going to get this. This is a failure. Like, I know how that feels. But that's not true. You know, that's not true at all, aren't they? Once he is he's terrific. Right now she's off to college again. I'd have to look it up but I think it's somewhere near like six to right now that Her managing on her own with an algorithm but her managing on her own. And, you know, her variability was terrific. Last week I looked at I think it was like 28 or so like her standard deviation was like 20. Last week, I was like, that's amazing. She still had, I would say, four or five blood sugars in the last week and a half that went up to 200. and stayed there for a while. And it was a mistake, it was a bad site. It was one time was a bad site, that she should have changed. And I chose not to tell her that, because I think she knows, and it wouldn't be worse for our relationship. If I, if I said that in that moment. Right? If she was eight, and we were at home, I would have been like you're taking this pump off. And all we're doing right, right, right. But this is a different situation. One time, she just missed on some food. But she's like cooking for herself now. And like, You got to kind of see the bigger picture. Like she had an apartment, she's making her own meals, she forgot the Pre-Bolus. But she also made a meal for herself. And I was like, Good, well, then we're not gonna say anything about this. Now, if it stays high for a little while, I'll send a text and I'll say, hey, you know what? I think you got to look, this is the algorithm asking for insulin that you're not like, like you should give it if it's asking. And she doesn't even answer me anymore. I just it happens, your blood sugar comes down. And even that, like, I'm not looking to be right. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't have a need to be like, See, I told you so. I just wanted to like, I think one day she'll just start doing it on our own. And, and again, you know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:35
and she is right, she's doing it on our own. Yeah,

Scott Benner 41:38
she's doing terrific. But again, if you if you stop in any one of those scenarios, and start judging every step as this is completely dire, then you're gonna go crazy, they're gonna go crazy, you're gonna have a bad relationship, blood sugars are not going to be good. It's not going to lead to some sort of like, oh, he was right, I'll take care of it. And in the meantime, you're all beat up. And I mean, all of you, you're all beat up by it. So there's some reason something in that I'm not great at like, I'm not very good at tying this together for some reason today. But something in that is why you have to take care of yourself, and not put yourself in a position where you're ranting or raving or seeing things as dire when they're not. Because it snowballs and then you're flying down the hill, and you can't stop anymore. So is that right? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:29
yes, because in the moment, as you're caregiving for your five year old or 10 year old or 15 year old, you're also doing all the other things to function as an adult. And then you have this other significant load of stress as you're managing, watching watching the the numbers on the Dexcom, the CGM, or, you know, however you're managing, and then you can get so as you're, I think you're as you're articulating, like, you just get so caught up in each moment to moment to moment, and having that automatic thought response of, are we are, am I failing is my child feeling? This is overwhelming. And oftentimes, I will meet with caregivers who are wanting support for their children. And then soon enough, they realize, gosh, I've, I just need this space, I need the support. And even so even as a caregiver, when you're looking for help for your child or your other family members, you're still thinking about the other person. Yeah. But eventually you then come you realize, gosh, you know what, this is too much. It's too much to carry by yourself. And even simply by taking that time out of your day, and I'm not just talking about for therapy, but for anything. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:47
I just interviewed a woman recently, who has type one or kids has kid has type one. And they're both on the same algorithm. And she said something about the podcast made her think, oh, I should go back and look at settings. We could probably tighten this up a little bit. Things have gotten away from us over time. So she goes looks at the kid settings, adjust them all. brings blood sugars back where she wants, and then never does it. First off. I said why not? Just I don't know. I said it would have been five more minutes. You were there you already doing it? Like why not just do it for yourself to just like, I don't know why I didn't do it for myself. So I mean, that's always going to be USC parents do that all the time. Right. Like, yeah, you know, you make a meal for someone and you don't even eat, you just have the scraps while you're cooking or something like that. Like it's okay, as long as they're okay. Like that. That kind of stuff is is always going to be but you have to you have to find a way to step back and I have a real serious question that you're initially going to think is me joking around, but I am absolutely not okay. Okay. As married people. Intimacy and sex is really important, except when all this stuff starts happening as one of the first things to go out the window. You know, It's not fun like it was when you were young anymore. Like, that just was gonna happen, by the way, whether your kid gets diabetes or not, that's going to happen one way or the other. But it's, it's not going to feel like you're in the back of a car. And we're 16. And this is crazy, you know, but, but it's still very important. Like, even just like skin on skin contact, like holding hands, or like rubbing people's backs or something, all that stuff starts to drift away when you're pissed. And we're tired, and we're tired. And I'm going to generalize here. You could make me pissed, or tired, or all the things. And then Erica asked me if I wanted to have sex. And I would 100% say yes. But it doesn't seem to work the same way for Lady sometimes. And so then that feels like rejection for the guy. And I'm sure women feel terrible, because they're not getting the things that they need to feel like they want to have sex either. I don't know how to fix this. Like, I don't know what to say to people. Obviously. It's also I mean, maybe I'm wrong. But I also think it's a little bit of nature, trying to say like, Well, you already made babies, we don't need you to keep doing this, like so maybe your desire drops to begin with, but then all this stuff happens on top of it, you can't even find the fun part of it, let alone let alone the emotional life part of it. So I don't know, like, is there? Is there a thing people should be looking at for that. And

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:21
I think it's interesting that we bring this up in kind of the self care topic, the physical intimacy, I think we do often think in with your partner that it has to be, it has to be sex, but it doesn't always have to be a particularly if that's gone out the window, and it's been out the window for a long time. To go back to just saying, Let's just sit on the couch and hold hands while we scroll, right? You know, or, or, you know, like, or just the skin to skin contact or Hey, will you scratch my back tonight and, and then you take turns. So starting small reintroducing that into your relationship is can be really significant and just reminding each other that a it feels good. And then also you remind yourself that you're there for each other not just, you know, emotionally but physically. And sometimes those smaller physical, intimate intimacy moments can lead to one partner feeling more connected emotionally, which then may lead to the next step physically, if that makes sense, right? Sometimes, stereotypically, women want to feel connected emotionally before having sex or being physical. Sure. But then for the opposite, as you were saying, you know, the stereotype of my

Scott Benner 47:43
mom was watching I think that's the point. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:48
So Oh, my gosh, yeah, that one made me blush. So the, then obviously, in those stereotypes of times, there is truth. But I think starting small, I think just like with anything with self care, with exercise with doing something, we think, Well, I gotta I gotta go run for an hour, even though I haven't walked for 10 minutes. And we got to start having sex again, even though we haven't held hands or kissed or hugged in weeks or months. Yeah, so just kind of going back. And like, as if you were dating, so I mean, I don't know. It's old school, like starting over slowly.

Scott Benner 48:26
Kissing is so much fun. But it does feel like a thing you do when you're younger. That wanes as you get older, which doesn't make any sense because it's free and easy. And people like it. So it's, I listen, I can give my perspective, I can say that when intimacy leaves, it feels like rejection. And when you're trying so hard in other aspects of your life, it's even harder because you're like, I'm a good person. I am a good parent. I'm here. I'm not high. I'm not drunk. I'm not gone. I'm not cheating. And I'm still not the right thing for this decision. That's hard. That's difficult. So where I get where women can feel the way they feel, like you said, generally speaking, I think I spoken to a lot of guys privately. That's how guys feel. They don't say it. And I don't think women expect that. Right. But it feels very much. Like you feel like a little kid and somebody told you they're not interested in you. Like that's, that's how it feels. So I don't think most women would look across the room with her husband and think he feels rejected. I think they might think well, he wants to get laid and I'm not up for it. Now he's pouting, but that's not how it feels. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:39
yes, yes. And how amazing. I know this would be hard. It can be challenging to then articulate that right to your partner. Oh, because

Scott Benner 49:50
what so it's good to really like to have sex, whatever,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:53
whether you're the you know, whatever gender you are experiencing now Right, because then guess what, what does that do that then bridges the emotional connection and intimacy, to be able to say how you're feeling in the moment, which is hard, whatever

Scott Benner 50:09
I could, couldn't it also, if I just expressed how I feel then make my bike my partner feel like, Oh, I'm letting him down. And then that's worse. And then we spiral to like, there's, everyone's got to like, I don't know, like, I don't know, I don't know how to like, obviously, these are things that have been talked about for eons. But you know, between people, this is not like a new story. Obviously, I hear women in their 50s who are getting divorced, talked about, I can't wait to meet a man who and then they list all the things that they that their husband, they feel isn't. And you hear guys say I, you know, that are divorced, like I can't wait, I'm gonna meet a younger girl who's more interested in being intimate. Like, it's just, it's like, I mean, this is not a new story. But if you're trying to keep your life together, and you're trying to raise a child with diabetes, and all this stuff is happening, I'm just gonna come out and say, if you just bang once in a while, things will be better.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:04
That's your that's your pro tip.

Scott Benner 51:06
I don't think anybody needs to be in love for 10 good minutes to make everything a little better for everybody. So as we're all trying equally, you understand I'm saying can't be selfish. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but you go ahead and pull 1000 Guys, a bedsheet, I know what answers you're gonna get. You want me to smile more? I know how to make that happen. But then, but that's difficult to get such a simple thing. And it is accurate. I'm gonna just go out on a limb here and tell you it's a pretty accurate statement. I don't know that, that generally speaking, women have like a simple thing that could accurately elevate their moods so easily. Like, seriously, if my wife and I had sex now, and then she asked for an inground pool three hours from now, I guarantee I'd be like, I don't know why we shouldn't get a pool. That sounds like a terrific idea. I've been arguing against the pool for 20 years, she just didn't know how to ask for it. But it's not that I'm in charge. And she's not. But I'm not joking. Like, I swear to you a tiny bit of intimacy right now. There's literally nothing that would ruin the rest of my day. I would be if I had a car accident, and they were pulling me out and I was gonna be okay. And the guy's like, how's it gone? I had sex or today, everything's fine. We can buy a new car. Don't know, I'm trying to make a point, you guys got to take care of yourselves. I think this is a big part of it. I don't think anybody's talking about it. So, you know, your thoughts will probably be more professional.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:35
No, I think but even as you're listening to this, if you're feeling like, you know, gosh, this is us. This is our, you know, our marriage, our relationship. And sometimes it feels more complicated than just let's just go have sex, and it will fix everything. Sometimes it as simple as that. And sometimes it's really complicated. So then maybe your if you even if you feel like, gosh, I don't even want to hold hands with this person. I don't want to kiss I don't want to hug then I would look at okay, is it? What are the deeper issues going on? It's been a pattern, all those things? Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:08
of course. I mean, if you're having some visceral hate of another person, I'm not saying you should just swallow that and go have sex. Like a regular, reasonably, like common situation where you're, you know, you'll love each other and you just these things have happened and you've drifted away? Like I don't, you know, I don't know like it. It's, I mean, at the very least it's free and it's worth a shot. Not like you gotta buy a pool. You know what I mean? You gotta get a fence. If you get an inground pool, you have to get a fence. You gotta get a pool ruined your yard for two years. These are the reasons I'm against it. They're very expensive. That's the other idea. Yes, anyway, I love our conversations. And yet at the end of every one of them, I'm like, I don't know if any This is fixable. So what's the so when there is no real like, light switch answer? What is the answer to waking up tomorrow? And it all just feeling like it's worthwhile and, and a good experience for you? What do you think about that? Like, what what is your mantra? What keeps you like marching forward?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:15
Gosh, I think having being present in the day, you know, kind of having this having hope and trust that I am good enough. And I'm going to do the best I can today. I think yes, we have future goals. We have future worries. When we get caught up and stuck and all of that. It's hard to then come back to just being present. Right? And so trusting that you are like as a parent, I'm thinking about myself as a parent and then also as a type one. I'm gonna take it one day at a time I'm gonna do the best I can. I'm gonna ask for forgiveness but I make mistakes for my towards myself and towards others because I am going I make mistakes all the time. Yeah, I think there's this element to of you know, balancing chronic illness is it's real, it's serious diabetes is really serious. And weighing holding that, but also holding that, like, it hasn't brought me down. So I'm gonna, I'm going to take it seriously, I'm going to do the best I can. And I'm not going to live in that space. So you know, going back to that scale, right? That, yes, it's not going to stop me from everything, I'm going to do all the things I want to do, and I need to really take it seriously. And when one of those things gets off balance, then that's when emotionally you start to spiral a little bit. Yeah.

Scott Benner 55:40
So for me, I grew up like not drinking or getting high. So I don't have a I'm not like a thrill seeker to begin, I do drive a little fast for dopamine, if I'm being honest. But but, you know, what is that thing like that makes you like, say, this was a good day. And I was exhilarated enough to want to go do it again, like that kind of thing. For me, it's helping people, like, whether they're people in my life, or like, you guys, or anybody I meet along the way, I get a little charge out of people doing well. And I like facilitating that. Like, like, on some level, right? And so, but there are plenty of people whose lives don't like, lend to those things. And they are thinking of, like, I just got to get through this day and get a drink, because that's where I'm gonna get my zip from, or I'm gonna get high. And that's where I'm gonna get my my thing from, you know, I know that. I mean, listen, it's a, it's a human can. It's part of the human condition, but you need to find something that like, jolt you up a little bit. You know, what I mean? makes you happy to like to be doing what you're doing. And that can be difficult to find that thing I've shared on here before people asked me, What are you gonna do after you retire? i It's a, it's a sad question. To me. I don't I'm like, Oh, God, like, I don't know. Like, I'm pretty good at this. Can I keep doing this? You know, and they're like, Well, what about for yourself? And who? I don't know, you know, like, that's, that's the thing that I think if we could all answer that question, it would be, it would be valuable for us. And it would help your self care, and it would help your parenting and it would help diabetes, and it would help everything if you knew what it was that made you happy. Anyway, good luck figuring that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:22
Yes. Well, I think yeah, but like having that sense of purpose calling in life, right? And how is that need being met? And is it do you have a faith or spirituality that is grounding you? Do you feel like you're? Yeah, you're just grinding it out day to day. And that's totally understandable, particularly in the newer stages, right? You're just like certain survival mode, and reminding yourself that that will, that survival mode will end?

Scott Benner 57:52
So not being a particularly religious person? And by that, I mean, I'm not a religious person. Is that one of the things that people use religion for? Like, I guess so. Right. Like, I never thought about that. But it purpose? Like, like a reason why. Yes, yeah. Yes. Okay. Yes. That's interesting. I know, that seems very obvious. And now that I think about it, it is really obvious. I just never really considered that before because it's never been a part of, it's ever been a part of how I've motivated myself. I guess. It's interesting. Okay. Well, I appreciate you very much, obviously doing this and

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:30
I'll talk to you guys next time. Thank you. Bye.

Scott Benner 58:43
I hope you're enjoying the parenting series. If you are please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. Thanks so much to Erica Erica forsyth.com. And of course to us med for sponsoring this episode. Us med.com/juice box head over there right now. Get all your supplies from us med let them just send them to your door. They'll just show up out front. It'd be like Oh, insulin pumps. Yep. And that's it. So it's amazing. Us med.com/juicebox Check out the diabetes Pro Tip series between Episode 1001 1026. Make your management easier. Get your agency's your time and range and your health where you want them with the diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast. And don't forget about the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes over 43,000 members. There's a conversation happening right now, that would interest you. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1063 Time is a Construct

Jonathan is 16 and has type 1 diabetes.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1063 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Friends I'm going to be speaking with Jonathan today 16 years old has had type one diabetes for five years. He's from a very small town and does a fantastic job on this podcast today. Jonathan's using control IQ, and his mom is a big listener of the show. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin, which I just saved 40% off of your entire order at cosy earth.com you can with the offer code juice box at checkout. You can also get five free travel packs in a year's supply of vitamin D when you make your first order at drink, ag one.com/juice box are you newly diagnosed? We're looking to start over, check out the diabetes Pro Tip series that runs between Episode 1001 1026. If you can't find them in your player, I mean you should be able to but if you can't check them out at juicebox podcast.com diabetes pro tip.com. We're in the feature tab of the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom dexcom.com/juice. Box head over now learn about the Dexcom G seven, the G six how to get started, find out if you're eligible for a free trial, and so much more dexcom.com/juice box where the same CGM that my daughter wears were a Dexcom. My

Jonathan 1:55
name is Jonathan. I am 16 year old. And I've been living with type one diabetes for about the past five years.

Scott Benner 2:05
Five years.

Jonathan 2:08
And Lunas small town in Kentucky go to a hot public high school play on the soccer team and the tennis team. They're nice. And there's a few other kids that I know of that also have type one diabetes in the area.

Scott Benner 2:27
Are they friends or just people you're aware of?

Jonathan 2:30
Kind of both? I know a few of them pretty well. And there's others I know have you

Scott Benner 2:36
become friends with them? Because they have type one or do you know them prior to that?

Jonathan 2:39
No, I didn't know that prior. My mom tried to start like a little type one diabetes group here. And it kind of fell apart. But a few people did show up and I've become close to them. John,

Scott Benner 2:52
your mom loves you. She started a group just for you. So you wouldn't be lonely. Did it work?

Jonathan 2:58
It without doing it anymore? Because COVID happened. So that kind of set that back? But

Scott Benner 3:03
yeah, but you held on to some people from it. Yeah. It's interesting. It's excellent. Actually, like small town. Like, how many people about do you know? I

Jonathan 3:14
would say maybe probably around 10,000 ish. Not too many.

Scott Benner 3:20
Okay, Kentucky, like, closer to Ohio or Kentucky like Kentucky.

Jonathan 3:26
We're in the more southern part of Kentucky.

Scott Benner 3:29
Okay. All right. You're 11 years old when you were diagnosed? Do you have any brothers or sisters?

Jonathan 3:34
Yes, I have two brothers and one sister all younger than me.

Scott Benner 3:39
They're all younger than you are. Is there? Is there anyone else in your family even going as far out as like aunts and uncles and people like that who have type one diabetes.

Jonathan 3:48
I have a few great uncles with type one diabetes and one uncle with type one diabetes. The young man there.

Scott Benner 3:56
I'm sorry. It's your mom's side of your dad's side.

Jonathan 3:59
This is my dad's side.

Scott Benner 4:00
Okay. Do you have any other autoimmune issues?

Jonathan 4:05
Not currently.

Scott Benner 4:08
John, you've been doing it? Yeah. You've been doing your homework. You're like not? Yeah. Yeah. So how about again, in the family, celiac thyroid issues, anything like that?

Jonathan 4:17
I'm honestly not too sure. I don't think it's much more than type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 4:24
Anybody run to the bathroom after Christmas dinner? Something could be silly. I don't think so. All right, you know, nobody's ever like wow, packets up real quick after we finished this turkey in the mashed potatoes. Yeah, no, definitely. Okay. All right. And but I'm not making fun of celiac for the people listening or like it's a barista here. I know. It's serious. It's trying to get John comfortable and calm and like so we can talk Jonathan are John would you prefer? I really don't care. You can call me either one all right path and that's what we're gonna do. Let's see. 11 years old. What Have any I mean, if of any, if anything, I guess what do you remember about being diagnosed?

Jonathan 5:08
One of my teachers noticed kind of notice that I was going to the bathroom pretty often she I think she said it was about every hour or so. And she told my mom without telling my mom, if that makes any sense. And she already knew that like, of the symptoms. So she's like, Okay, well just go get him tested. So I suddenly, from my experience, I suddenly got pulled out of school, and I had no idea why. And we were going to the doctors, and we went to see a family doctor that we had no. And they gave us a meter. And they sat me down to get some labs done the primarily test my blood sugar. And then we went home. And with the meter they had given us we tested my blood sugar. And I was like, it read high. And I think with that meter is over 600 or something like that.

Scott Benner 6:00
Wow. Do you remember how you felt? Well, previously, I

Jonathan 6:04
had the flu that December, and this was around February. And so everybody had told mom was getting kind of worried. And everybody told her that it was probably just because the flu and I got hit hard. And I'll eventually regain the way. And then once the teacher had told her about those symptoms that she had seen. Mom was like, Yeah, this is definitely what it is. And so has

Scott Benner 6:28
your mom ever shared with you? Was this something she was concerned about? Always because it was in your family?

Jonathan 6:33
She did have said to me that she knew that it was always a possibility that one of her kids would get it but she never knew like when or No, no,

Scott Benner 6:45
I understand. But it does sound like it was in the back of her mind. And just because she said she made the lead sentence.

Jonathan 6:50
Yeah, in the back of her head. So she was always was kind of watching. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:55
yeah, she made the leap very quickly, which is great. And probably why you're weren't having a ton of symptoms besides the weight loss and the and the bathroom thing. Hey, maybe that you think that teacher was a creep? She was just watching little kids go to the bathroom or? No.

Jonathan 7:09
Actually, that teacher has a son with type one diabetes. He's older. I think he's a grown adult now. Yeah, I'm just kidding, for sure. But yeah, she had she had also known about those symptoms. And that's kind of the reason she kind of brought it up. Yeah,

Scott Benner 7:29
I'd be interested to hear from a person in that perspective, because maybe she didn't want to be the one to say it directly to your mom. Like maybe it's, you know what I mean? Like maybe some people want to be connected to and people's memories. I wonder, you know what I mean? Anyway? So how do you start? Like, what's the what's the deal? You get injections? First, they give you a pens? And is it a pump? And are you in charge? Or do your parents take care of it.

Jonathan 7:56
So when I first was diagnosed, and we left the hospital, they had us on the pens. And mainly the doctors would mess with the carb ratios and stuff, we didn't change much. And then pretty soon after, maybe a month or so they got us on a CGM. It was the Dexcom G five at the time. So that helped a lot. And that like, after fingers sticking like almost eight times a day, like and then immediately getting onto the every five minutes, you're getting a new reading. That was that was pretty fun for me for the those first few, probably months or so. Yeah, that I had that new experience, you know, making life easier. Yeah.

Scott Benner 8:41
And so that kind of outweighed for you the idea that you had to wait where something? Yes, yeah. Did you have concerns about having to wear it?

Jonathan 8:51
No, not really. I've never really had very many concerns of having having to poke myself with that and leaving it on me every seven or so days was

Scott Benner 9:02
so you don't have a lot of thoughts about what do other people think about this? No? Yeah. Okay. And you play would you say two different sports? Sorry.

Jonathan 9:12
I play soccer, and tennis. Alright,

Scott Benner 9:15
I'm not gonna count soccer as a sport, but okay, you do two different activities. That's I'm just kidding. And and has it ever been a problem for you? Like, how do you find activity with diabetes? Like especially in the beginning, were you able to keep going or was there a relearning process? At

Jonathan 9:31
the time I was first diagnosed, it was like, it was just soccer for the middle school. And that wasn't the worst because I would normally once I actually started playing in starting, I would have my I was a tandem. And I would just unhook it for the games that I played. And so that didn't bug me much. But there was, I think it was last year and The year before the I was in a junior varsity match. And I was wearing the Omnipod on my arm and that got torn off. And I didn't go out the game, I just tossed it to the sideline to fix it later because I wasn't worried about it. But that's probably the most that's happened with the technology and during while playing sports and all those

Scott Benner 10:19
games, that's not bad at all. Yeah. Did you learn to like that there are better places to put them? Well, I guess my question is, which one are you using? Now? Are you on control? Like you are?

Jonathan 10:29
Yeah, I'm on control IQ now. Am I

Scott Benner 10:31
okay? Did you find when you disconnected to play that your blood sugar's would get high afterwards? Or did they not?

Jonathan 10:38
I think it honestly depended. Because obviously, like when you're in the rush of the game, you have those adrenaline rushes, which always normally raise my blood sugar, but like, also, I have a lot of physical activity, like I'm running up and down the field constantly. So yeah, I think it and honestly, I don't remember, but I think in the end, just thinking about it probably ended up balancing itself out and maybe eventually having a load afterwards.

Scott Benner 11:06
Have you learned how to do activity now with? I mean, staying connected and in managing it, like stably? Or do you still disconnect to this day?

Jonathan 11:17
It just depends. Right now. We're in the offseason for soccer. And so I'm playing tennis right now. But for tennis, because it's not such a physical sport. I keep everything on. And that works pretty well, for at least tennis. For soccer, though. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do this next year. Last year, I would normally just kind of flip it and tuck it into my shorts. And have to keep that on.

Scott Benner 11:47
Yeah. All right. I do want to. So I want to ask you about management, like specifically like, do you handle it? Like present day right now? Is anyone involved in your help? You know, is there people helping? Are you doing it by yourself? Or

Jonathan 12:04
mainly, it's mainly me. I carb count I Bolus for everything that I well, I shouldn't say everything I you know, I'm doing all that. But my mom, she, she's a she follows my graphs pretty consistently. And she, she knows like when she sees something in the graph consistently. She knows like, what kind of changes to make, like I'll make a few changes every once in a while. But he or she mainly makes the changes and I do pretty much everything else.

Scott Benner 12:34
site changes, is you you keep track of them. And when like your sites have to be changed in the CGM has to be changed.

Jonathan 12:41
Yeah. I mean, I just keep track of it by the alarms that the devices give me.

Scott Benner 12:48
Okay. Are you paying attention to those alarms? Kind of? How How often do you find yourself going? Oh, my CGM just expired. I, I wasn't, I didn't remember that was gonna happen.

Jonathan 13:02
I normally do the changes in the evening. So it's not the worst when it expires. But I have done that before. We're like, I'll get the, like, 30 minute alarm, and then I'll go start something else. And then it'll expire. And like 20 minutes later, I'm like, oh, I need to change that.

Scott Benner 13:19
Yeah, I said to so my daughter wore a G seven last week to try it. And she's gonna go back in and keep using it when her G six is run out. And so I sent her a text, she's in college, and I said, Hey, you're in a great position here. You can put the G six on, you know, even maybe six hours before the g7 is going to expire. And then you won't have a gap without your CGM. And then she didn't do that. Yeah, I'm looking at a text from her now that says, I'm so busy at school. I don't know how I'm gonna get any of this done. And I responded time is a construct, which is not going to be helpful for her. But I thought it was funny. Anyway, okay, so you're definitely using the G six because using the control IQ, and right now in April of 2023, GS six is the only thing compatible with it. So but you've done both, you've done Omni pod five, you've done control like you. It sounds like you've tried a number of things, but prior to that you were just using a tandem pump. Yes. Okay. What made you try an algorithm at all. Now let's talk about the Dexcom g7. The Dexcom g7 is a small and wearable continuous glucose monitoring system. It sends real time glucose readings to your Dexcom g7 app or the Dexcom receiver. Use my link dexcom.com forward slash juice box to learn more and get started today. You will be able to effortlessly see your glucose levels and where they're headed. This way you'll be able to make better decisions about food, insulin and activity. Once you're able to see the impact that those variables have on blood sugar, you'll begin to make more purposeful decisions and have better outcomes. My daughter has been wearing a Dexcom My daughter has been wearing a Dexcom product for so many years, I don't even remember when she started. But today, she wears the Dexcom G seven. And it is small and easy. And oh my goodness, are you going to love it dexcom.com forward slash juice box, you can head there now and click on the button that will get you your free benefits check or just hit that other button that says Get Started. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast dexcom.com forward slash juice box.

Jonathan 15:48
Well, the first pump that was on was tandem. And eventually they upgraded to the Basal IQ, which was just it suspended your insulin, when it saw you're going low. And that that was honestly probably the first big game changer with how we manage because we could be slightly more aggressive to keep my numbers and trust that the pump would be able to keep it stable because it would suspend the insulin. And then they upgraded it to control IQ where it pretty much did everything it increased it would give you those auto boluses decrease standard suspended your insulin and then we do know that the pumpkin almost do pretty much everything as long as we had those main settings right like the Basal CF factor, you know? Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:38
Jacqueline, where'd you learn all this? On

Jonathan 16:41
my mom, and she'd probably say the Juicebox Podcast. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 16:44
Oh, okay. Sorry. Oh, my God, we'll get back to that in a second. Hold on, we just wrote down Am I annoying to you? So because you just explained that so clearly, just I can be more aggressive because the algorithm will try to stop even Basal IQ which was, you know, like you said, just cutting off your, your Basal insulin, if it looks like you're gonna get low, and you can be more aggressive. And that works, right? Like, just Yeah, via getting some of the insulin up front ahead of the food, in a more aggressive manner can sometimes help. What would you describe your eating style as, honestly,

Jonathan 17:18
it's probably pretty unhealthy. And it's with carb counts, it's decently consistent, I'd say normally 60 to 100 carbs for almost every meal. So there's that somewhat consistent range that I eat. But it's normally like the quick processed food, I can throw in the microwave for like two minutes and then just eat it.

Scott Benner 17:45
John, I'm going to have more younger people on the show, because that was the most honest answer anybody's ever given. I'm like, what's your what's your fueling plan? Like Jonathan, you're like, I go with pretty unhealthy. Some people like it's not I'm a pescatarian. I'm like, Yeah, are you so but oh my god. So hold on that really made me you. Got I'm trying to put myself in the ground as fast as possible. Yesterday, I had a Twinkie hot dog. But it was so your is it about quick. Accessibility to food. Is it about that you cook for yourself? Is your mom like a layabout? Is she not helping you with meals? What's going on? Exactly? Well,

Jonathan 18:25
for like lunches and dinners. They normally cook like dinners like my dad, he's kind of the main cook in the family. He'll cook a pretty convenient dinner. That's good. So dinners is usually but you know, we live in America. It's still like all the processed food and stuff. So obviously, it's not going to be the best but for lunches, and breakfasts, lunches tend to be at school and in the schools who just isn't also the best. Also, click Process stuff, they can just click in massive amounts. And breakfasts ends up being like oatmeal or something I can just throw on the toaster. Yeah, don't

Scott Benner 19:04
don't throw me on the toaster. But I hear what you're saying. Yeah. So let me ask you a question. You have a firmer grasp of what you should be eating than many people your age. But you're not. Do you not like, like singular foods, like a piece of chicken or a piece of beef for, you know, like asparagus, like, are you not that person? Or is it about time?

Jonathan 19:31
It's honestly probably about time, like, I could sit down and I could like, learn how to cook this stuff real nice and make it good. But like, I have a really busy schedule, like with school and then all the extracurriculars I do. I ended up not being at home very often where I have that like 30 minutes to an hour to be able to cook some nice chicken or a steak or whatever.

Scott Benner 19:57
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. We Because I think that when most people look at another person's lifestyle, and they, you know, they make a judgement about it, they always say, Oh, they don't try hard enough, or they don't understand me, they don't have money. But it's none of that for you. It's just It seriously is just time and availability to that time. I know what you're talking about, it's incredibly difficult. To prepare a meal, I guess I shouldn't have said that. It's not incredibly difficult to prepare a meal, it's incredibly difficult to find the time to prepare a meal. And then you have to cook it, you have to eat it, and then clean it up. And before you know it, you're an hour, 90 minutes later, and for somebody like you who's involved in activities and going to school, and I mean, you have a are you dating? No, no, yeah, that'll let you try that. And how come you're not dating? Nobody's interested? Or you're not interested? It's

Jonathan 20:56
kind of sort of both. Like, I have had some people ask me out, but like, it's either I don't feel ready or like, I just kind of don't want to at the time, like, yeah, no, I understand that part of time. You know,

Scott Benner 21:11
I guess you do you mind telling me I what I don't feel relat ready means putting

Jonathan 21:16
in that time commitment, you know, like, preparing myself mentally, for the challenges it may bring, you know, because it's a whole new aspect to life. Jonathan, I'm

Scott Benner 21:28
laughing because you have no idea. And you're not going to be able to prepare. So I've been married for like ever, I don't know, like 26 or 27 years. And still twice a day. My wife says something to me. And I think what is she talking about? Why? Why are we talking about this? What's happening? Yeah, man, are you have no idea? Have you considered being a monk? That's not a bad thing to do. And, you know, keep it on the back burner. Let's say people are lovely. And you will get so much out of an interpersonal relationship that is special like that. And at the same time, it it'll be utterly confusing to you. I think it's I think it's growth. But that's if you get lucky and get like a decent person like you could get a wacko you don't I mean, like, Yeah, have you had any your friends like dating somebody that they're like, Oh, my God, I, the one I got is nuts. Does that happen? Yeah, yes. Yeah. Good times. Good times, Jonathan. Yeah, there's plenty of time for that. Don't rush. I like the way you're handling. Do you know it's interesting. If people are really listening, you sound like you come from a really solid families. For Kids, mom and a dad in the house. Your mom put a lot of effort into your, into your health. You play a couple of sports, you're really well spoken and understand everything and yet I have found a way to infer that it's possible your mom is a layabout, and your teacher was a creep. Your friends girlfriends are all whacked out of their skull, which nonetheless, I'm just trying to be entertaining Jonathan, but I just did hit me a minute ago. It sounds like you have a really wholesome phallic life. I'm like, why was that lady watching? You go to the I just got up an hour ago. I'm not really awake yet. Okay, I have to ask you just because of where you're at. A lot of pressure about drugs. Where are you able to stay away from it?

Jonathan 23:18
For the most part, I've been able to stay away from it. The honestly the big thing is vapes, like I've been asked to do vapes, I don't know, like, I know that there are a bunch of druggies all over but yeah, I can pretty consistently stay away from most of the

Unknown Speaker 23:35
What grade are you in?

Jonathan 23:35
I'm a sophomore.

Scott Benner 23:37
What's the harshest drug you hear spoken about by kids? Everyone's

Jonathan 23:40
doing a little probably ended up being like cocaine, but it's probably most commonly marijuana. And

Scott Benner 23:46
when they're vaping, or they vaping weed or they vaping like oils and stuff like that.

Jonathan 23:51
Most of them will probably say it's oils, but I really have no idea.

Scott Benner 23:56
And so you've been able to keep a core people around you who aren't doing that. Yeah, that's excellent. Good for you. I'm assuming that you don't smoke cigarettes, and you don't drink? No, no. Do you think you will?

Jonathan 24:09
Honestly, not sure. But I will try and stay away from it as long as I can. Because I just know the health health benefits from it. You staying away from your

Scott Benner 24:19
parents drink? No. You I think that gives you a better shot, honestly, because it doesn't seem like part of life. I've really noticed that. That people I know who came from households where there's like always beer or something like that, or just wine in the evening. And it's just it's very normalized, which I don't not really making a judgement about, but I think when anything's normalized, then when you get older, you just think oh, I guess I'm supposed to drink coffee now or you don't I mean, like something like that. So alright, yeah. So you play two sports, you're not dating, you're not smoking, and you're not getting high and you're not drinking. What do you do? For the rest of your time,

Jonathan 25:02
like I said, I'm really busy outside of school, because the ball sports almost practices every day, almost to average two to occasionally one and a half hour to two hour practices every day with those sports and I do. I do play the trumpet and that. Are you serious? Yes, in the band. I play the trumpet. And every once in awhile, they'll do an after school practice. For like the whole band, right before a concert or something. So yeah. Outside of school, I'm probably home. I'd say roughly around 530 to six almost every day. I

Scott Benner 25:40
have to ask you, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. But you're coming off like an indignant to me. I don't know if you know that word, but I'm trying to figure it out. Are you? How tall are you?

Jonathan 25:48
I'm around six, three, you're athletic. I would consider myself athletic.

Scott Benner 25:54
So you're a sixth theory, athletic, soccer tennis playing trumpet player who's not dating, getting hired drinking? All the dots right now, Jonathan, what do you think of that? My kids are gone. I could use a couple more years that are carefree. But with a person in the house. By the way, I called your teacher creepy earlier now like describe your body to me, Jonathan. You're a bit of a I'm gonna ask my last question to put this puzzle together. How are you a decent student? Good student bad student?

Jonathan 26:26
Oh, yeah. I'm an AP student.

Scott Benner 26:28
What do you thinking of doing after high school?

Jonathan 26:30
I've been thinking a lot about electrical engineering, or just something in engineering in general. Really?

Scott Benner 26:36
You think you can pull that off? Your math is strong?

Jonathan 26:40
Yeah, it's pretty strong.

Scott Benner 26:41
Oh, let me Can I say something to you? Sure, you can hold out you're gonna get a good girl. Do you see them saying? Like, you don't have to don't don't don't? Um, yeah. Is that what you're doing? Oh, is that what you didn't say earlier? Has somebody up to your standards not come along it? Not

Jonathan 27:00
necessarily. But, like,

Scott Benner 27:03
what the hell's happening here? How come? Oh, my God, come on. Kids aren't like you. I mean, you understand your diabetes? Like, you're thoughtful. Like, how did this happen? Did your parents do this to you? Or is this natural? Honestly,

Jonathan 27:17
they they have said, like a good example of like, what to look for, you know, like how to act around people. So yeah, I'd put most credit on them. Hmm.

Scott Benner 27:25
Religion a big part of your life for now?

Jonathan 27:28
Oh, yeah. It's a pretty big part.

Scott Benner 27:30
Okay. Is this that have a hand in keeping you in line? Or is this just who you are?

Jonathan 27:35
We have like a small church here. So we're pretty tight knit, you know. So that's probably it's probably also helped. I'm trying

Scott Benner 27:43
to get to the fact like, I'm trying to find out if like, when one of those kids is handy, that vape and they're like, Hey, Jonathan, try this. Are you thinking yes, I'm going to were you thinking? No, I can't because God won't like it. Or do you think I don't want this? It's just not for me.

Jonathan 27:58
It's a little bit of God. Like, you know, and it's like, I just don't want to okay, it's an it's a mix of both.

Scott Benner 28:07
I got you. Oh, listen, everybody needs a motivator. That's perfect. I listen, I'm not questioning this is working. You've never murdered a squirrel and buried it so people wouldn't see or anything weird, right? Jonathan, you'd ever merge? We're all right.

Like, I'm trying to make sure you don't have a mental illness. Jonathan, right. So I checked to make sure you're not torturing small animals. I asked a question. And there's this long pause and I'm like, Oh, we figured it out. Someone watched this kid. But oh, my god, six three is that is a gift. Do you have a tall family? Are you the only one?

Jonathan 28:50
Oh, yeah. My uncle who also has type one diabetes, he's he's pretty tall too. So? Which,

Scott Benner 28:56
which? Which one of these sports are you thinking about in college? Tennis, right? Honestly,

Jonathan 29:01
I'm not sure. Honestly, I'll probably end up trying out for either one. I don't think I'm a get a scholarship for either. So.

Scott Benner 29:09
But Jonathan, here's what you're missing at an engineering school. It's not like Steffi Graf is showing up there. So you really might be able to see what I'm saying. Yeah, there's their standards. What am I trying to say? You are athletic, and smart. Doesn't happen like that. And I don't mean smart. Like, not everybody's like my kid plays But initially, I don't mean that, like Everybody calm down. I mean, like engineering smart. That's a different level of understanding. And an athletic is a mix. Like it is a mix. You don't see often. My son just graduated from college recently. He played baseball throughout school. He got a lot of money for playing baseball. And his, his major was quantitative economics. And you don't often hear somebody who can hit a baseball out of A minor league baseball stadium and understands whatever the hell quantitative economics is. So that's what I'm saying for you. This is you have a nice launch here. Do you don't screw this up? Jonathan, you're gonna have a decent life. You excited? I guess when you put it that way. Yeah, man think big. What kind of car do we want as an adult? Honestly,

Jonathan 30:19
I really don't care something that I can that will work, something that will get me point a point a point A to point B pretty easily, Jonathan, partially destroy.

Scott Benner 30:30
We're gonna talk about your diabetes in a minute, because I want to hear how you're managing and everything and everything you've gone through with the two different systems. But first, we're, we have to continue playing this game. I'm gonna give you a million dollars now. You have a million dollars. You're an adult? They're 23. Okay, are you moving out of Kentucky? Are you staying? Honestly, I'd probably stay. All right. And the kind of car you have not important to you? Not really, what kind of how big do you think you would like your house to be? Do you want some big crazy house or something small and manageable? Does it matter to you if it's new or

Jonathan 31:06
old? Honestly, I'd kind of like maybe an older house, I could kind of fix up and make how I wanted. Jonathan,

Scott Benner 31:15
I think you're gonna have a problem when this comes out. Because every free mom, every mom that hears this, that's gonna try to figure out who you are. And they're going to be sending their daughters to you. Do you see what I'm saying? They're gonna be like, meet that boy right there. You don't want anything a gold chain? A PlayStation in every room? Nothing crazy comes to mind?

Jonathan 31:34
No, not really. Wow. Good for you.

Scott Benner 31:39
I you know what if I hadn't, if I had a bunch of money, all of a sudden out of nowhere. I've said this before on here. So some people won't be surprised by it. I would collect my family up and ask them about their medical issues, and then pay for them to go to boutique doctors to help them. That's the first thing I would do. I don't have any big thoughts, either. It's like, oh, if I had a million dollars, you know what I would do? Like, you know, like, I wear like, I have a sweat shirt that I'm wearing right now that I looked at it the other day, and I thought this has got to be 22 years old. I could afford a better sweatshirt. And just doesn't occur to me to replace it. I was talking to somebody yesterday who might come on as an advertiser. And they sell like, like clothing. It's nice clothing. And they're like, we'll send you some samples. I was like, Okay, thanks. And then I thought like, what am I gonna do with that? Alright, what kind of music do you like?

Jonathan 32:33
Music I generally listen to kind of hard rock music.

Scott Benner 32:37
What does that mean? In 2023? Give me two or three bands that you like.

Jonathan 32:42
Shine down Shinedown upheaval and Alter Bridge.

Scott Benner 32:48
See, we found where it's coming out. It's coming out through the music. Right? See, if you were my age, you would have listened to God would Will you listen to Metallica? Pantera, suppled, Torah stuff like that stuff you probably don't even know about or care about anymore. But it would have been similar. Did you see? Alright, I'm testing you. Did you see the Leonard Skinner tribute at the Country Music Awards The other night?

Jonathan 33:11
I did not. Yeah, that's an old person. That

Scott Benner 33:13
thing I was testing. Okay. All right. All right. Are you been a good sport? Are you are you are you having a good time? Yeah, we're having great time. All right, go. How did you end up doing this? Your mom forced you.

Jonathan 33:25
My mom was like, oh, it'd be such a good idea for you to compare Omnipod five to control IQ because you've done both. I was like, Yeah, sure. I guess I'll do it then. And then because you're so backed up, and she's like, having to schedule it out. This conversation happened? Probably February. Yeah. Late February, honestly. And so she scheduled me out to April. And she's like, well, obviously he'll talk about anything. So if you don't end up talking about that, that's fine.

Scott Benner 33:58
And your mom likes the podcast. Oh, that your mom likes the podcast? Yeah, she

Jonathan 34:05
listens to what's your,

Scott Benner 34:06
what's your one say?

Jonathan 34:08
I think the last time it was like 6.3. That's really

Scott Benner 34:12
good. Good for you. That's excellent. I mean, seriously, you managed that on your own and a six three and you're eating garbage basically hot trash. You just shovel it, you probably eat the box once in a while and don't even realize doesn't doesn't even taste any different? You know? So, okay, so you were on Basal IQ, then what did you do next?

Jonathan 34:30
Once control IQ came out. It was right to control IQ.

Scott Benner 34:36
And then at some point, you tried Omni pod five? Yes, but you're back on control IQ. Yes. Okay. So I know what I think the differences in the system are so I think I'm, it's gonna be very interesting to hear what you say. So first, tell me about the experience on control IQ and how you find it, what you use as far as its capabilities and how you might you know, monitor yourself And then how you kind of implement your ideas.

Jonathan 35:03
Well control IQ that like it can do the audibles and stuff like moves your Basal up and down as you need it. Least put

Scott Benner 35:15
Now Jonathan, you broke up this your your hillbilly to hold on, your hillbilly Wi Fi just broke up there for a second. You have like either like goats outside running on a wheel or something like that you have to go feed them or what? What makes that I'm just teasing. You just broke up for a second. So intro like you got it again. So

Jonathan 35:34
control IQ, like it raises your blood sugar and stuff. And you're not blood sugar, basil. And we keep our mind in sleep mode 24/7. So that tightens the like, in range time of what the pump thinks is in range. So it will try and keep it a more steady line because it's not expecting like the activities and stuff of regular day. And so that seems to help. Also in sleep mode, it doesn't do the auto Bolus is so it's not in the auto Bolus is are just the correction factor. And then I think it takes it's only 60% of what it actually would be. Yeah. So honestly, I don't feel like that would be it's too much of a difference without it.

Scott Benner 36:23
Have you? Have you ever tried running it out of sleep mode?

Jonathan 36:25
We did at the beginning, and we just decided that it'd be better on sleep mode. And and we just haven't changed it.

Scott Benner 36:32
Okay. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I literally interviewed a person yesterday, who said the exact same thing. Like I know, I think the way they said it was I know you're not supposed to do this, but I run control IQ and sleep mode 24/7. And I've also had people on who are like, you don't have to do that. Like I have a couple of really good episodes about control IQ. One of them's called control IQ ninja. And I think one of them is called lazy control IQ ninja. But they were they're pretty helpful if you want to check them out. Anyway. Okay, so you're running it out of like, not really in the automated mode the way they I mean, the company is hoping I guess you will. But you're using it like that. You're I mean, you're a six, three. And he, you know, that's astounding. And it works for you. Do you use a lot of extended bonuses or things like that?

Jonathan 37:23
Not really, like, for some meals, like I know, like when I snack on popcorn or something I know that's always gonna hit me slightly later. So I'll Bolus just a little bit up front for that. And then do the rest extended. Sometimes I'll deal with pasta when I remember. But yeah, that's

Scott Benner 37:42
Ctrl. Like you lets you do an extended you don't have to Bolus the second time.

Jonathan 37:46
Control IQ lets you do it to our extended Bolus, and it'll let you switch the percentages however you need it. Okay. Okay.

Scott Benner 37:54
So then, what makes you try on a pod five? Is it just the idea of like, Oh, I could go back to tubeless.

Jonathan 38:02
Yeah, two plus was the main thing that drew me to Army part five. And part of it was also the algorithm and with the algorithm like we were doing decently well, obviously, we couldn't we put in our original settings, and then it would just learn from there. The reason we came back to control IQ was that, for us, it felt like that, it wouldn't stay consistent it like every time I switched upon, like, it would be good. And then I'd be low all the time, and then it would be good again. It's like it couldn't stay. You know,

Scott Benner 38:42
how long did you try it for?

Jonathan 38:43
I think it was a few months.

Scott Benner 38:46
Did you hear my episodes about setting up on the pod five before you tried it?

Jonathan 38:51
Like Bob may have but I personally didn't know him. Yeah, there's so

Scott Benner 38:55
it's, it's incredibly important when you set up on the pod five, to really, really know your total daily insulin and and to give that to it, and it wants you to I'm speaking generally here, but it wants you to be about 5050 on your initial setup, 50% Basal 50%. Bolus, and then it wants you to that then it sort of makes the decisions after that it figures out what it's doing. And it goes from there. I know that people who start that way, have a lot more success with it than not. But you're also manipulating the control IQ to a large degree, you're leaving it in sleep mode. So it doesn't make Otto Bolus is like you're you're adapting, control IQ to your life the way you want it to you're not just letting it run. And so when when you were letting on the pod five run, you were getting lower. Yeah, it tended to push me low. Was that around activity or any specific time or just generally? I

Jonathan 39:58
think it was just generally Why, like I'd be stable for a little bit, it would go. And sometimes I'd cracked it. Sometimes I wouldn't. But I'd always end up going back up to be studied for a little bit. And it ended up just being these kind of hills.

Scott Benner 40:12
Did you ever use an omni pod before the algorithm? No,

Jonathan 40:18
Omni pod five was the first time the first I had did you

Scott Benner 40:21
try throwing it into manual mode to see what happened.

Jonathan 40:25
Um, I can't remember if we did or not, we may have put it in manual mode for a little bit. Okay,

Scott Benner 40:30
I have a ton of episodes about on the pod five, that people should check out if they want, including a three part series, overview settings and connectivity 736-730-7738. There's an episode was somebody who set up there on the pod, but then heard the the series and they did a reset. So on the pod reset is 794. One what I'm what I'm going to tell you is that first of all, you should use whatever works for you. That's I mean, I want your life to be easy. So obviously doesn't matter to me what you use, but algorithms, you know, not even algorithms, diabetes, you said it earlier settings, everything settings, right your, your carb ratio, you have to have it right, your Basal needs to be right, your correction factor needs to be right, you need to understand the difference between you know, how, I don't know a piece of chicken with some beans and a potato are going to affect your blood sugar versus you know, a pizza that comes out of a box at two o'clock in the morning that even though maybe the pizza slice says it's 36 carbs, and the potato and the chicken and everything seems like 36 carbs or whatever, it's not going to hit you the same way that settings. It's so important throughout diabetes, but really, when you are setting up an algorithm if your settings are off, like nothing's going to work, and what happens to a lot of people doesn't sound like it happened to you. But what happens to a lot of people are, they are also they're kind of getting lucky or having good results by mistake. Sometimes, like some people over basil themselves and then eat to the insulin. And they'll say oh my onesies good. It's low and you know, blah, blah, blah. But that's not really right. Like your Basal shouldn't be set in a way where you have to eat or something's gonna go wrong. And that's just one example of classically how how people with diabetes have sort of, I don't want to say cheated, but you know, like, they've got their settings wrong, but it's still in the end working for them, like, quote, unquote, working for them. So you can't put bad settings into an algorithm and expect it to work. Because it's, it only knows what you told it. And if what you told it's not right, then your outcomes are going to be wrong. So anyway, I but I'm happy that you found something you like, the tubeless nature of it. You do prefer that over wearing it to pump? Yeah, yeah. I think you've ever tried again,

Jonathan 42:56
probably just depends on the futures got a bunch of crazy new technologies. So just honestly, depends on what comes out next. Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:05
man, there's gonna be a lot of cool stuff that happens in your life with diabetes. It's your you got diabetes, the right time, Jonathan. Do you ever think about it in terms like that? Do you ever think this isn't fair? Or I don't want this to? Do you have any psychological burdens from it?

Jonathan 43:23
Not really, like, honestly, the most psychological burden I've really had from it is like, just not wanting to deal with it. But other than that, it's not been like, too mentally hard on me.

Scott Benner 43:36
Would you describe yourself like that in other aspects of life?

Jonathan 43:41
Probably kind of a, there's definitely things in life where like, I just don't want to do it. But like, you know, it's a responsibility that you just kind of have to do and get yourself to do. So.

Scott Benner 43:55
Would you describe yourself as would have been anxious or nervous or any of that stuff?

Jonathan 44:01
No,

Scott Benner 44:02
no? Do you worry about low blood sugars?

Jonathan 44:04
Not at all. I trust the pump. You could say with my life, but that's kind of what it is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 44:11
Have you ever had a scary low?

Jonathan 44:13
No, not too crazy. When

Scott Benner 44:17
do you start feeling your lows? At what number?

Jonathan 44:21
So it depends on like, kind of the blood sugar's prior, like if it was a drop from like 200 that we just kind of kept pushing and it just started ticking almost straight line down. On the graph, I can, I can feel myself dropping fast like, I'll get like the hungry sensation and stuff. But when I like, if it's kind of more cruising, and then I just start going low. I can, like, I'll also like the main symptom is like I get hungry when I'm not normally hungry. And then sometimes I'll sweat like that's more of a nighttime symptom is I'll wake up sweating and my blood sugar will be low. I

Scott Benner 45:01
mean, is there a number where you're dizzy or disoriented or anything like that?

Jonathan 45:07
No, not. Normally. If it's like low low, like I'd say 50s 40s. Maybe. But like, if it's just 60s and stuff, just kind of, I'll be more of the hungry and wake up sweaty sensations. So

Scott Benner 45:21
how often were with what frequency? Do you think you see a 50? Blood sugar? Honestly,

Jonathan 45:27
not too often, it'll normally be like, with an off day where either I've been super active or like, I've been cruising high for a while, just some out of the ordinary.

Scott Benner 45:39
Yeah. And something. It's not usually a falling 50. It's kind of like a glide to 50. Yeah, okay. That's great. Well, I mean, how would your blood sugar fall with all that crappy food and you're right. I will share this with you. Like I said, my son is 23 just turned 23 Now, and he played baseball, since he was four. So in the spring, in the summer, in the fall, it was in the wintertime is the only time he wasn't on a baseball field. And there were normally winters after he hit probably, like, I'd say probably 1213 years old. Even in the winter, he was in a cage swinging back constantly, or throwing or you're working out or lifting or something like that. And he could eat rocks. Like if you fed my son rocks, he still looked like, like standing muscle. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And then he graduated. And he kept working out for baseball for a while he was thinking about going to grad school, he got a few grad school offers to play baseball. He didn't want to do that. He thought about going down south to a pitching clinic cuz his fastball was up to like 93. And he's like, maybe I'll take a shot at this. But then in the end, he just decided to take a job. And he and he went and took a job. And inside of like, three months, he said to me is like, wow, I really have to be more careful about what I eat. And he didn't realize like he was eating a lot just to maintain, like, he was six feet 200 pounds while he was playing. He's like, I can't I can't carry this weight. He's like, first of all, I hate eating all this food. And he's like, he's like, I don't want to be this big. He's like, I'm gonna get like, I'm gonna get soft and five seconds. So he, he dropped 10 pounds. And he's, he's happier now. But he's also cooking for himself and making meals and because he's he's also trying to save money, you know? So he's, he's preparing meals on the on the weekend and taking them to work with him during the week and stuff like that. But yeah, my my point was, Jonathan, your body won't let you do that forever. So be careful. Yeah. Okay. And you would use less insulin if you ate cleaner foods, too. Yeah.

Jonathan 47:52
But, you know, tends to be more expensive because America convenience

Scott Benner 47:58
is that is is expensive part of the issue. I mean, for our kids, there's a lot of kids to take care of. Yeah,

Jonathan 48:05
I don't think expense really is like, I know, my parents follow like a budget stuff. So I don't think expense is too much of an issue. We have good insurance. So like we get most of my stuff for free. So cool. Well, that's not something we have to worry about.

Scott Benner 48:22
Jonathan, that's interesting. If you said to me, what do you pay for insulin? I don't think I pay probably like $20 Every time we get insulin, right. But I also have insurance on myself, my wife, still my son for a little longer. And my daughter, and out of my pocket, I think that cost like $8,000 a year just for the insurance, then I have co pays and deductibles to reach and probably by the end of the year. I'm guessing my insurance costs me 12 $15,000. But when you the day you buy the insulin, you're like, oh, look, it was free. So it's not free, Jonathan, is what I'm saying. But you'll be an engineer, you'll be able to pay for it. And you're getting helpful as it goes, right Jonathan? If you listen to me, you're going to be an engineer with what I'm going to say is like a 511 Volleyball playing wife who also has a good career. So all you got to do you want her to be blonde or do you not care? I honestly don't care if she plays volleyball, she's gonna be blonde, Jonathan, so maybe maybe we'll get away from the volleyball that if you don't care, because you're gonna get what do you think? What do you think about generalizing? Jonathan? Are you a fan of it? Or do you find it repulsive?

Jonathan 49:34
I don't really care. Like, it's a good way to describe it.

Scott Benner 49:38
So I have a, I have a group of people ever real question for you here that you don't I mean, seriously, think about it for a second. You don't have to answer. Okay. How much of political correctness it touches you at 16. Do you feel it the way older generations Do or do you Not? What's my question here? If someone wants you to refer to them by a pronoun, or if someone wants you to do something that seems just not how it would occur to you. Like when that happens in my, my family, my kids are just like, oh, yeah, whatever, that's fine. And that's, I think, a real generational thing. Like there's no, no judgment. No, like, well, this is what I think like, I find kids your age to just be like, yeah, man live and let live, whatever. And I don't just mean about pronouns, but about everything. Do you find yourself? Just going with the flow? societally? I don't know if any of that made sense to you? Because you're 16

Jonathan 50:44
Yeah, I guess, like, kind of just like, going with, I guess you could say the crowd like, just kind of chalant Lee moving with them. You know, personally, I don't take like aside either way. But like, if somebody asked me to refer to them away, I'm like, Cool. I'll do that. And it's like, not a big deal. To me. I don't really care that much about that kind of stuff. Stuff

Scott Benner 51:08
like color and sexuality, like just as meaningless to your generation. Right?

Jonathan 51:13
Yeah, I guess you could say that. Yeah. No, look at it. Yeah. It's

Scott Benner 51:17
terrific. Actually, Jonathan, I just, like I grew up in the 70s. Like, when I was 16. It was, Geez, 8687. Maybe. And, like, if somebody said, anything like, like, oh, Bill is gay. Everyone be like, Oh, my God, Bill's gay. Like, like it would be it would be like a whole thing. Do you know what I mean? Like this? Yeah, it really the world was like just an incredibly different place. Not that long ago. And I'm, I'm very, like, heartened by how well your generation and the generation Nish before you two has just decided like, and I don't even know if they've decided, I think it's just the way it is. But all that crap is gone. And I'm thrilled it's gone. Like so. Um, it's very night. I think it unburdens you to just live and not be running around. Taking your opinion or your judgment or like meanwhile, nobody even has an opinion. They just they form one because it's asked of them. That's what you guys don't do anymore. You just go right on. Like, that's what that's what they said. And then good. And I think that's really terrific. So, I mean, we just got to keep you off the math, right? I mean, it's Kentucky in this right. I mean, we're not we're not lying. Are we here? Jonathan? I gotta keep you awake. Yeah, right. Like, so. That's cool. You want your teeth. Jonathan. I just want to say that right now. Seriously, so what have I not asked you about so far?

Jonathan 52:45
You've hit like everything.

Scott Benner 52:47
Do I talk too fast for you? Or you were okay.

Jonathan 52:50
No, yeah, I didn't understand you. Understand me.

Scott Benner 52:53
I didn't mean like I was from Mars. I was like, like, I was like, people.

Jonathan 52:58
I know that like some people, the deep south they like talk really slow. And it's hard for them to understand people who generally talk faster.

Scott Benner 53:07
In a million years, like I would not have, you have no accent that I can discern. Like, I don't hear anything at all. Like, do you feel like you're like, sound like you have a piece of straw on your mouth and you're wearing a hat or no?

Jonathan 53:19
I don't think I sound like

Scott Benner 53:22
no, you don't. You could have told me you were from Connecticut. I would have been like, Alright. Sounds Why did I pick Connecticut? Oh, I'm doing a speaking thing in Connecticut. The end of the month? That's fine. That's in my head. It's a private thing. I can't tell you if I don't think the group wants it made public. So I won't tell you about it. But it's really interesting. That was nice for me to say it was really interesting. But I won't tell you, Jonathan, I'm doing this really culturally interesting thing that I will not be telling you about. I'm going to tell you after the recording is over because that was not fair to you. The rest of you are screwed. You're not going to get to know Him. Have you ever listened? Has your mom ever said like, Hey, you listen to this episode. Not

Jonathan 54:00
really, like she has like, because we're in a small town. We go to endo and Lexington, Kentucky so that's about an hour and a half drive or so and she'll put the podcast.

Scott Benner 54:15
I hope that I hope the radio in the car works better this internet connection today.

Jonathan 54:18
Listen to those episodes. Okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:20
Alright, so back to my question that I wrote down from earlier. Are you annoyed by like, how is your mom like one of those moms who's like the guy on the podcast? Or does she talk about me like I'm a person in your life or anything like that?

Jonathan 54:33
Not really. She's just like, I heard this on the podcast and like, you would maybe we could try it out like Okay, sure. Yeah, I don't really find it annoying.

Scott Benner 54:42
She seems like a really good mom. Do you think she is? Yeah, she's

Jonathan 54:46
a great mom. Yeah, but

Scott Benner 54:47
I mean, are you saying that because she's your mom. Or have you witnessed other mothers and you're like, I got a better one. I haven't really? Yeah. Not willing to. Not willing to out any of your friends for having a wacky mom. Okay, that's nice. That was nice.

Speaker 3 54:59
I just like there's some times people come on and they're like, oh my like, like, it's constant like the podcast, Scott, I don't who's the host? Scott? Like, your dad hasn't said anything. Like, stop already. And that is, and I'm gonna let you answer that. Then I have another question.

Jonathan 55:14
Hi, dad. He's kind of more on the sideline with the diabetes, but like he, he also follows my index card numbers. So, and he he roughly knows, like what I have to do. And so

Scott Benner 55:27
yeah, so that was gonna be my next question. Your dad's not that involved with all this? Not

Jonathan 55:32
really, because he, honestly, most the time he's at work. He works like eight to five. So he's at work a lot of the time. So he's not like always at home having being able to, like, kind of hover over me.

Scott Benner 55:48
Yeah, he should get a podcast, it frees up all kinds of time in the middle of the day. So you think your dad, what kind of podcast would your dad had if he started one? He

Jonathan 55:58
is a he was a history professor. Now he's the department chair at the college. So very cool. I'd say that either something like with history or education is

Scott Benner 56:09
excellent. Are you as you come from an academic but what's your mom do?

Jonathan 56:13
Oh, she's an aide at the local elementary school and an adjunct at an online adjunct at a community college in Mississippi. Very nice.

Scott Benner 56:27
Ice. Excellent. Wow. You're used to you have younger brothers and sisters. How old are they?

Jonathan 56:34
The youngest just turned nine. And my sister is 11. And my brother is 213. Do

Scott Benner 56:46
you think that they have any impact from your diabetes?

Jonathan 56:49
They definitely see it. Like, there's no doubt about that. And they like know about it. My youngest son, my youngest brother sometimes says that he wishes he has diabetes, so he can eat snacks whenever he wants, but that's not true.

Scott Benner 57:05
Yeah. Do you think? Do you think any of them have ever? Like confided in you or are they scared? It's gonna happen to them?

Jonathan 57:13
It's probably one of the thoughts. That's like the very back of their head. They did. They don't seem like too worried about it or anything. So

Scott Benner 57:22
you've never spoken about it with them though.

Jonathan 57:24
Not really.

Scott Benner 57:25
Gotcha. Are they all like you? Are they like tall and smart and nice?

Jonathan 57:30
Most of them have good. They all have good grades. Yeah.

Scott Benner 57:35
You don't understand yet. Six. Three is a it's a pass like you won. Like you know that Willie monka ever know the Willy Wonka in the Chocolate Factory? Where? Yeah, and they commonly give a golden ticket to somebody. That six three is a golden ticket. You have no idea. Ah, Jonathan, I'm jealous. Do you understand? The girls are gonna line up at college to go out with a six three, Jonathan. They're just gonna be like, Oh my god. He's so tall. They how's your face? Is it okay? You know what I mean? Yeah, sorry. Yeah. All right. So you got a good face and you're tall and you're athletic. How much you weigh at six, three?

Jonathan 58:12
around 170 or so.

Scott Benner 58:14
All right, we'll put a couple pounds on you. Right like just gonna fill it because you're not at the age. You're still growing. Your dad bulky. Is it going to be okay.

Jonathan 58:21
Are you going to be like, oh, yeah, yeah, my dad's pretty bulky.

Scott Benner 58:24
You got the world by the balls. Do you know that term? Do you know do you know? Yeah. I hate you. What do you think of that? Oh, man, if your dad was my son's dad you'd be watching my son play centerfield on a professional baseball field. Right and I was the thing hold my kid back. I held it my wife my wife is five nine that's tall for a lady you don't know that. But it is. And. And every guy in her family nice and tall. Over here. Here I am five nine. My son grows up to six feet and stops. I know he's pissed at me. He's like, I'm telling you if you have no idea if my son was two inches taller, he literally would be playing baseball right now. And I if he ever hears this, he's gonna be like, yeah, you son of a bitch. Use me up. Hey, that's a good question. You guys curse.

Jonathan 59:14
My friends do a lot but I keep it more moderate.

Scott Benner 59:17
And around the house. Anything around the house? What's the harshest word you hear around the house?

Jonathan 59:23
like dang it or something? They don't curse very much.

Scott Benner 59:26
Dang it. I'll be darned. Yeah, it's something else. Yeah. What's your favorite curse word? You don't have to say you can just allude to it.

Jonathan 59:34
The one yeah, like I don't know honestly. Know

Scott Benner 59:37
how it happened when you're angry. trying to be funny.

Jonathan 59:43
Like I said, I don't curse very much. That is

Scott Benner 59:48
Jonathan, there's a lie in the situation. There's a line of women and their daughters outside of your house right now. I swear to you like as soon as this goes up, just they're going to be out there like locust. You're gonna have to call the cops like Aaron You're really amazing. I would um, I feel like talking to you. I feel like I've done a bad job with like, it was like, Oh my God. I mean, unless you snap and shoot a bunch of people, you and I don't think it's happened and you seem like you're together. Hey, if I said to you of your friends which one's going to snap this one jump into your head right away?

Jonathan 1:00:23
Probably.

Scott Benner 1:00:28
My good stuff, man. i You're terrific. Tell your mom she was right. I usually I get notes like her note says, Let me read it to. Here's a question you fill out when you're coming in about topics you want to cover. She says I'm filling this out for myself. But I think but I am thinking maybe it would be best to have my son Jonathan on who has type one. He will be 16 years old when you record it. She goes on I read this Jonathan and from my perspective, I'm like, oh, here we go. Proud. Mom's gonna put this kid on. It's gonna be a marble mouth and I'm gonna say anything. I'm going to be dragging questions out of them not going to be able to joke because he's not going to understand and you were just terrific. Like really good. Tell your mom she was spot on about this. And every and everything else and I definitely think she's not a layabout. Just so you know. About is that a word people use? Where did that even come from? Let's look it up together for a second lay about who derogatory British term a person who habitually does little or no work? Yeah, I was right. And I think we all know what creep is. So we'd love to look that up. Yeah, but um, alright, so. I don't know what to ask you. I do. Wait. I'm sorry. I do know what to ask you. Can you just hang for just a couple more minutes? Yep. All right. Err, I heard the South that time. You were like, yep. That I got it. There are movies to kids your age care about going to a movie theater? Kind

Jonathan 1:01:57
of sorta like, it depends if there's a good movie. Like it won't. It's not the most. Like here. We don't have that crazy big movie theater. Yeah. It's like, I think it's six or seven, maybe six or seven theaters? I'm not sure. Honestly, because it's been a few. It's been a while since I've been. Yeah. So you don't

Scott Benner 1:02:17
go to movies frequently then? No, not

Jonathan 1:02:20
frequently.

Scott Benner 1:02:21
Your generation is ruining something that I love. It's okay. Don't worry about it. I mean, how about rap music? Like rap music?

Jonathan 1:02:28
Oh, yeah. I like yeah,

Scott Benner 1:02:30
let's be like, go to let's let's be alright. We'll be controversial. For a second though. Kanye is terrific, right? Yeah, he's gonna get me Oh, my God, just it just pumps he is. appears to be a terrible person. But, but the music is ridiculously good. Did you see the other day that he tweeted? That he saw a movie with Jonah Hill in it. And he's now doesn't have a problem with Jewish people. Anyway, I

Jonathan 1:02:56
did see that out of his mind.

Scott Benner 1:03:00
I was like, What are you saying? Like, just not ironically, he meant it. He I saw 21 Jump Street and all that stupid stuff I've been saying for the last six months. Forget it. Like, I'm like, Oh my God, you need help front. But those songs are I mean, my God, you could put Kanye on forever. And it just you could put on his first album and not know any of the songs and listen to it straight through. It's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, man. But no, I mean, just really like he's a genius. And they say there's a thin line between what madness and genius and he's, he jumps on both sides of that line. That's for sure. Anyway, I am not buying a pair of $200 plastic shoes. I don't give a crap how good the music is. But that's neither here nor there. All right. And I you know what's happening right now. I'm out of stuff to ask you. But I don't want you to leave. I'm enjoying your company. Oh my god. Hey, you don't know how to edit audio do I could hire you want to edit? My God? teach yourself how to use some editing software. I'll hire you to edit the podcast. I would love to talk to you every day. How did you? How much did you hate me? Or how did this go for you?

Jonathan 1:04:18
I enjoyed myself is fine. Good.

Scott Benner 1:04:20
Good. I'm glad. I want to tell you like I'm obviously not your parents. And I have no no right to tell you. I'm proud of you. But I for a person I met an hour and 10 minutes ago. I'm very proud of you like the way you're handling your blood sugars. And you know the responsibility and the pressure seems to roll right off your back about it. I'm very impressed. It's really something you should be really, really proud of yourself. I hope you are.

Jonathan 1:04:48
Thanks, man. I do appreciate that. Of course. Do

Scott Benner 1:04:52
you feel it ever? Do you ever look up and think man I'm doing more than kids my age people are adults too. Uh, like, you know what I mean? Like being?

Jonathan 1:05:01
Yeah, you know, I'm saying, kind of like, I just kind of see it around me like, I wish somebody else would kind of know and like, step up kind of,

Scott Benner 1:05:12
you know, tell me what that means you need help? Well, no, it's

Jonathan 1:05:16
not that I need help. It's just like, if more people like realized if they just did this that would like, less than somebody else's burden just like this much or something like that, like, I see that stuff.

Scott Benner 1:05:28
You're worried about other people.

Jonathan 1:05:31
Kind of, like, oh,

Scott Benner 1:05:33
wait a minute, you have friends, you have friends with type one who aren't doing as well as you are?

Jonathan 1:05:39
Or it's not that they're doing is not doing as well. But it's like, I know, like, I don't want to be overbearing on like, this huge group of people that I know, like, I could help. So like, I kind of stepped back, but not really. And I'm like, I just see something and I'm like, I know, such such and such did this, they would help this or that, you know, just just like a group that whole or whatever. Do

Scott Benner 1:06:05
you think it's kind of a lead by example thing? Do you think that them seeing you? You know, take bolusing seriously, when you guys are together and you're eating or something or testing your blood sugar once in a while, if you're like, I'm not sure if my CGM is right, let me check. Like, do you think that makes it easier for them? to maybe do it themselves?

Jonathan 1:06:22
Yeah, I feel like if you just like, do something around people more, it's, you know, lead by example, they're gonna see that and they'll be like, Oh, it's, it's alright, to do this or that, you know,

Scott Benner 1:06:33
I will tell you like,

Jonathan 1:06:36
it's also like doing it around other people like just being confident about who you are, you know? Yeah. Like, you don't need to be embarrassed if something you can't control.

Scott Benner 1:06:44
I think it's a big deal. In general, but around diabetes, specifically that you don't hide your diabetes, I think it's, it's very important for you psychologically, I will tell you that I I've spoken to a lot of adults who have friends who have type one, this is a common message from people. You know, I'm in a group, you know, I have four or five friends who have type one diabetes, and I see them not taking care of themselves, and it breaks my heart. And I don't know what to do. Like, that's not an uncommon thing to have happen. And I know you're not saying your friends are just ignoring it. But you're seeing little things where you're like, Oh, if they just did this, or, you know, man, that's 30 carbs. It's not 20. Like that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's nice of you to be concerned. And I think it's incumbent upon me to tell you that you are not responsible for other people. So don't let it burden you. But don't let it stop you from caring either. You don't need me to tell you this. You're parented. So Well, I'm sure you're sure your mom has that embroidered in a pillow somewhere? You don't I mean, the other one's going to turn out good to the younger ones, or is one of them getting off the rails? They all seem

Jonathan 1:07:52
on the rails right now. But they're not in high school yet.

Scott Benner 1:07:57
When in that's when the pressure comes, do you think?

Jonathan 1:08:01
I think like, middle, like middle middle school, I guess? Sounds weird. No, it does then, like high school? You know, I feel like that's when they start like getting almost like the end of the real world. Not like it's not necessarily real water. But you get it's a whole slew of like, new things you have to deal with to stay away from and stuff. You know,

Scott Benner 1:08:26
you saw weed in middle school? You did, right. vaping is

Jonathan 1:08:30
probably vaping. I didn't see vaping in middle school.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
Do you think your mom would be surprised by any of this stuff?

Jonathan 1:08:39
Honestly, probably not. Now, obviously, like when she was in school and stuff. It wasn't like as bad as it was. It was more of cigarettes and stuff. But now it's the vapes. So it just kind of changes over time. Yeah. Do

Scott Benner 1:08:54
you think she'd be shocked that you said cocaine earlier?

Jonathan 1:08:58
Maybe, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:08:59
my kids tell me it's everywhere. Like, like, just everywhere. My son was like, it was in college. Like it was. My daughter talked about, like you hear people talking about in high school, you know, a college again, friend groups, you gotta you have to have a really my daughter had a pretty small my son to like a pretty small friend group to avoid stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, man, I don't know. You're terrific. Like, I know, it sounds weird, but you really are, like, go forth and prosper or whatever. And I will. What did I promise to tell you when we got off here? Oh, where I'm going to speak. It's not that exciting. But I'll tell you in a second. I thank you so much for doing this man. I

Jonathan 1:09:42
really appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. Cool.

Scott Benner 1:09:44
All right. Hey, how great was Jonathan, thank you so much, Jonathan, for coming on the show and sharing your story. I also am going to thank Dexcom Dex comm.com/juice box you can wear the same CGM that Arden is wearing the Dexcom G seven, or you can go get the G six doesn't matter to me whatever you want they got at dexcom.com/juice box. Don't forget to check out the diabetes Pro Tip series at juicebox podcast.com diabetes pro tip.com or between Episode 1001 1026 In your audio player. If you're looking for community look no farther than the Juicebox Podcast, private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but it's for everybody really you have type one type to adda gestational, I don't care. Come on over, meet one of those 43,000 members and get started today. If you have type two or pre diabetes, that type two diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast is exactly what you're looking for. Do you have a friend or a family member who is struggling to understand their type two and how to manage it? This series is for them seven episodes to get you on track and up to speed. Episode 860 series intro 864 guilt and shame episode 869 medical team 874 fuelling plan episode 880 diabetes technology episode 85 GLP ones metformin and insulin and an episode 889 We talk about movement. This episode is with me and Jenny Smith. Of course you know Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist. She is a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. Too many people don't understand their type two diabetes, and this series aims to fix that. Share it with a friend or get started today.

#1062 Texture

Jessica has type 1 diabetes and an interesting job.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1062 of the Juicebox Podcast way to find out why this one's called texture

today on the pod Jessica, she's 32 years old diagnosed with type one diabetes a few years ago. I'm excited about two things in this one for you to find out what Jessica thinks caused her type one, and why the episode is called texture. Hint, it has something to do with her. Sorry about that. It has something to do with her job as a dog groomer. And for those of you wondering, Arden's blood sugar is 136 diagnol up looks like she just ate she's weight school still. Let me take a look. No, yeah, she ate bad about an hour ago. Getting a little drift up. We'll look at the algorithm trying to get it back. Just put in a nice Bolus. Oh, when I just watched it push up or basil at the same time. We'll be killing this spike in no time. Speaking of spikes, I have no tie in for that just Forget I said that. Drink ag one.com/juice box get a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order at drink a G one.com/juice box. And don't forget those diabetes pro tips are remastered and waiting for you from Episode 1000 to 1026. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by cozy Earth. Cozy earth.com. Just go there, pick out your towels, your sheets, your Comfies like these sweatshirts I'm wearing today sweatpants I worry the other day, so much oh my god pajamas, you'll see there's a ton of stuff@cozier.com. Anyway, go there, fill up your cart, then use the offer code juice box at checkout and you will save 40% off of your entire order. It's that easy. The show is also sponsored today by touched by type one that's touched by type one.org. Find them on Facebook, Instagram, or go to their website and see all the great things they're doing for people living with type one diabetes. Today's show is also sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter, contour next.com/juicebox head over there right now and find out all about the most accurate meter we've ever used. The contour next gen. Using my links supports the show those links are in the audio player you're listening in right now. Right in the shownotes. They're also a juicebox podcast.com. All right, believe in your site. Okay, so this is gonna start a little differently. Sure. Give me a second here to get everybody into it. Okay, so guys, this is Jessica and Jessica and I have been talking for 20 minutes, and I was not recording her voice. And so we're starting over again. And I apologize because we are never Jessica going to be able to remake the joy that I had in my voice when I found out that you tried Molly from your ex boyfriend without knowing what it was. And that that upsets me more than anything.

Jessica 3:23
I'm glad I could give you an existential crisis. really

Scott Benner 3:27
upset about that specifically.

Jessica 3:28
Me too.

Scott Benner 3:30
It was the way you honestly, because you were like, you know, I just trusted him.

Jessica 3:35
Well, I had no reason not to up until that point. So. So let's,

Scott Benner 3:40
let's do a little bit of a fast forward, and then I'll find my rhythm. So you are Jessica, you're 32 years old. You were diagnosed right around the time you're 28, almost 29 years old. Yes, yes, type one diabetes. Your cousin has type one. There's no other autoimmune in your family. And you were experiencing some anxiety at the time. And I think that's the core of it. So let's go back to that you had a triggered by what tell people again.

Jessica 4:04
So I took Mali, and the trip itself was fine. But after that, for about a year and a half or two, I had a lot of anxiety, which is not typical for me. And during that time, I started to suspect that I had diabetes, maybe I had a lot of type two diabetes as a family history, so I was worried about it. And then I started to have blurry vision issues to maybe look into blood sugar as issues as the cause of my vision issues. So I went to the doctor was misdiagnosed at first with type two, but eventually was diagnosed as type one point

Scott Benner 4:43
and how did the timelines line up for the doing Molly having anxiety getting diagnosed like where were they how do they run together? Are they concurrent? Are they one happens before the other?

Jessica 4:56
Well, one happens before the other so I I think I remember, February of 2017 is when I took Mali. And then I was diagnosed in 2019. In

Scott Benner 5:08
September, but you think you live that entire time under a level of anxiety that you had not previously had?

Jessica 5:14
Yes. Wow. Absolutely. Yeah.

Scott Benner 5:18
It is not a from what the Google tells me substance induced anxiety disorder after one dose of Malia case reports. Interesting. Wow. Okay. All right. All my jokes about you taking Mali and not knowing what it was. You said the ex boyfriend? Yeah, they're all gone now. But you said the ex boyfriend was like, trust me. And you said, yeah, right. On, I trust you.

Jessica 5:41
Yeah, yeah. I been with him at set with for seven years at that point. Right. And he was good at other like things, you know, having a job paying his bills, being generally responsible for the most part, you know,

Scott Benner 5:54
so why not this?

Jessica 5:56
Right. Why not that I said, oh, like, Oh, I've tested already. Like, it's fine. You

Scott Benner 6:01
know, what's really disappointing is that I made such an earnest joke after you said that earlier. Because I really have known my wife, my wife is like, you know, in her late 40s. I've known her since she was 20. And I honestly, like, I can't get her to do anything. Like so. I mean, I'm a reasonable guy. I do other life things. You don't I mean,

Jessica 6:23
I'm not sure. I know. Sounds maybe slightly more reasonable than I was at the time. I'll see.

Scott Benner 6:29
Oh, I see. You're thinking she's smart to say no, every time I say something silly, and you're probably making a mistake. Alright, fair. Yeah, I

Jessica 6:38
effed up for sure. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:39
Okay. So anyway, we just did a pretty good job of encapsulating our 20 minute conversation in the last three minutes. So let's move forward from there with me just feeling stupid for a couple more seconds. Sure. I'm like literally looking up under sound waves in front of me like like, vit like visual representations of sound. And I'm looking and thinking, I'm not talking more than Jessica is like, Why do I have so many more sound waves than she does? That I looked closer, and I was like, Oh, it is because I am not recording her voice. Anyway, apologies. Very, very many apologies. We learned that you are an MDI and Dexcom. So let's kind of pick pick up right there. You took care of yourself right away. You said you had a couple of moments where you were like, I cry and then you went right to it. I wanted to ask you at that point. Is that your personality? Like are Yes. Are you just like, I'm going to just take care of this kind of person? Yeah. So you didn't see a difference in in one to the other? Like something bigger life like health wise, or, like my apartment needs to be painted? Not

Jessica 7:47
Not really, I guess. Yeah, I just treated it like something that, you know, like, Okay, well, what do I need to do? I'm going to do it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:56
Yeah, that's pretty, pretty admirable. Honestly, I guess you don't have any other options. But also really no, yeah. But also your now like, your breakup happens right around there as well. So you're, you're on your own?

Jessica 8:09
Well, my dad was kind enough to let me move in with him for a while. So that was really nice.

Scott Benner 8:13
After the diagnosis, or after the breakup, after the breakup. Oh, wait. So you live together in an apartment with a boy? Yeah,

Jessica 8:21
for a long time for five, five years. We live together? Yeah. But

Scott Benner 8:25
when it ended, it was his apartment? No.

Jessica 8:29
We were kind of trying to figure out what to do with it. He had a friend who was trying to get him to move in with him. So he moved in with this friend. And he said, I could have kept the apartment and maybe gotten a roommate or something. But I didn't want to do that. And I wasn't sure if I could afford it on my own. So then I ended up moving in with my dad for a little bit. I think my dad felt bad for me. Probably rightly so. Because it kind of sucked at that time. I mean, you know, when you break up with someone you've been with for a long time. Yeah. No, I diabetes. Like, was not. I wasn't struggling a lot with that specifically, just like, you know, you

Scott Benner 9:07
see, you think you're the focus of your dad's like, you know, compassion was more about the breakup and less about the diabetes.

Jessica 9:16
Oh, I don't know. Actually, I haven't reflected on that. I think more about the breakup.

Scott Benner 9:21
Yeah. It's very nice to

Jessica 9:24
look at. Yeah. It's a nice guy sometimes. He's got a really dry sense of humor, which I inherited. So yeah, he can be you know, but ya know, I think you know,

Scott Benner 9:39
the dry sense of humor is not always fun. That's always what a dry sense of humor is not always fun when you're on the other side of it. Oh,

Jessica 9:47
no, it's fun. It's fun. I find more people that don't know me very well. Just think I'm Can I you need to bleep Okay. People prop initially I think think I'm kind of He, if they don't know me super well, just with the dryer sense of humor, so oftentimes it's more of a problem for other people than it is for me.

Scott Benner 10:08
Because you're like, I'm not really being bitchy. I'm just yeah, like, it's just a joke. Sarcasm. Yeah, yeah, I see that I saw somebody make a joke online the other day. And it was so clearly a joke. And to watch people be mad was fascinating. You know,

Jessica 10:25
I think I remember seeing that poster. Maybe I don't remember what it was about. Oh, you

Scott Benner 10:29
have a thought the thing I'm thinking of is ridiculously not about diabetes. But tell me what you saw that you wonder about? Oh,

Jessica 10:36
I don't remember specifically what it was, but it was it was on a diabetes page. It might have been on the juicebox. One. Okay. Maybe it was a different Facebook page. I'm not sure.

Scott Benner 10:46
I see. My thing was much crazier. Like, the whole thing with the Dalai Lama and his tongue and the little Have you seen all this? Know what, I don't know if I have this completely. Right. So I think that, okay, I think that in their culture, you stick out your tongue when you meet somebody. Because of some like, old idea that there was this, I don't know, ancient leader who had a black tongue in if your tongue was black, then you had been taken over by his essence or something. So I'm probably getting this very wrong. So you show your tongue to prove that you haven't been taken over or something like that. But he's very close with a boy, like a young boy. And the tongues out. And it's all just kind of really creepy. Yeah, and I don't know, like, I don't know more about it than that. What I know is that is that I saw something online where somebody posted the picture and said, I don't see the problem. And it was clearly sarcasm. Like there's, it's not not a picture you would look at and go oh, you know, and, and it was just interesting to watch that nobody would assume that somebody could be dry and making a joke about something that was you know, it mean, serious. So yeah, I get your point. Like, sometimes when you have that sense of humor, it misses people pretty significantly.

Jessica 12:03
Yeah. Especially if you don't I feel like if you know someone and you know what to expect it from them, then you can just assume, and you know, everybody's good with it. But yeah,

Scott Benner 12:13
it's a little easier. So the one aspect of our of our conversation that there's really no way to bring back is that you play Dungeons and Dragons, and I just sucks because we had

Jessica 12:28
I was thinking about that. I'm like, Oh, d&d stuffs gone.

Scott Benner 12:31
Oh, dungeon masters in a polyamorous relationship. And I was just like, Ah, I might call this episode Dungeon Master. I was so excited. Oh, yeah. We learned about your character, and then I screwed up. Alright, well, we have to find our footing now. This is my fault. We do. Yeah, we have to we have to move forward. What made you want to come on the podcast. As you heard earlier, this episode of the podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. But when you get a contour meter, what you're really getting is their test strips. Contour. Next test strips feature remarkable accuracy. As part of the contour next blood glucose monitoring system. They're the number one branded over the counter test strips. And they of course have Second Chance sampling. Second Chance sampling can help you to avoid wasted strips, contour next one.com forward slash juice box. Near the top of the page, you'll see a Buy Now button, it's bright yellow. When you click on that, you'll get eight options of places online to buy contour meters and test strips walmart.com, Amazon Walgreens CVS pharmacy, Meijer, Kroger target Rite Aid. These are all links you'll find at my link linking the link links blink blink blink link. I'm just getting head over there. Now once you please listen to contour meters are incredibly accurate. They are simple to use. They're easy to hold, easy to read, and they have a bright light for nighttime testing. Part of me wants to say that the second chance sampling is the biggest deal, but honestly, it's the accuracy. These meters are accurate. And I know a lot of people like to think well I have a CGM. I don't need a meter. You do. You need a meter. You need to be accurate. You deserve it to be accurate contour annex.com forward slash juicebox. Take a look at the contour next gen and the other meters available from contour. We use my links you're supporting the production of the show and helping to keep it free and plentiful. You guys got me on a good day. I just spent my very own money on some cozy Earth items. I'm wearing them today because they are well cozy. Today I got on brand new joggers and a new sweatshirt. Why did I have to buy new ones? Well, I've lost a little bit of weight. And I didn't like looking sloppy in my other ones. So I treated myself to some new joggers and a hoodie and they fit like a glove and they're super Coffee and a warm all day. And you could tell now, did I pay full price for them? No, I did not. Do I get some special deal that you don't get? No, not at all. I took my money I plunked it down at cozy earth.com And then I use my very own offer code juice box at checkout. And I save 40% off of the things I'm wearing. And a couple of other things that are in the other room. This will work for you too. Cozy earth.com Get sheets towels, hoodies, sweatshirts, pajamas, anything you can think of. And it will be soft, soft, and beautiful and temperate, temperate, not hot, not cold, perfect. In the sheets in the hoodie, that this morning, I dried myself off with the waffle towel. What an experience. I'm not even kidding, you get the shower, you know, you're all wet. I don't know about you guys, I do a little squeegee on myself. It's like little guys push off a little bit of the water. I don't know if you guys do that or not. Then boom, hit myself with the waffle side of the towel. First, all the absorption happens. And then I flip it around to the other side. And just ooh, a little buffing and shimmy. You don't I mean a little Shammi shake. And I am crisp and clean and ready to go. Cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout, save 40% off of everything on that website, use my links, use my offer codes, support the podcast, dry off your bits and your pieces and then lay them down in a smooth, silky bed of viscose bamboo. You will not be sorry.

Jessica 16:35
I'm not sure. I don't know. Maybe free therapy. Mostly joking. But yeah, I don't know. I just thought I had a unique experience with my diagnosis. Not that it's necessarily necessary or super valuable to like blame the onset of type one on something but I just thought it was a interesting. You

Scott Benner 16:56
really you really believe in the timeline of this. You? Yeah, you do the Molly, you have a like an anxiety you've never experienced before in your entire life for a couple of years. And then you get diabetes.

Jessica 17:06
Yep. And I had. Yeah, and I definitely had, I think it was like a slower onset starting around that time. Because I was six months before diagnosis. I had a yeast infection every other month and I tried a different birth control. And I felt like I could feel like tingling my legs. It was similar to what I thought was neuropathy. Maybe that symptom went away when I changed birth controls. But there were like a lot of things around that time right before I was diagnosed. Looking back, I was like, oh, yeah, that was a sign and I didn't know what to look for birth control

Scott Benner 17:38
pill.

Jessica 17:38
I tried the NuvaRing or the NuvaRing.

Scott Benner 17:44
The reason I asked is because

Jessica 17:46
I'm on pills, and I've been on pills except for a time when I was trying to figure out something if I wanted to try something else. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:54
I'm trying to see if if NuvaRing has any blood blood sugar impacts.

Jessica 17:59
It does. It says it may increase blood sugar in diabetes. Oh,

Scott Benner 18:04
okay. But here's his health care providers often suggest hoovering for diabetic women because it does not pass through the digestive system. Instead it is absorbed directly through the vagina. There's words you don't hear often spoken out loud. This Yes. Not often.

Jessica 18:20
In many things you want to absorb through through there. No, honestly, no. I

Scott Benner 18:25
mean, obviously really take that sentence in your mind and say, Where would I use this? It is absorbed directly through the vagina, there's nowhere

Speaker 3 18:34
I go, I try to work it into a conversation. I dare you. This is beneficial for women with diabetes, because the body does not have to metabolize the medication. I don't see why that makes a god damn bit of difference. But okay,

Jessica 18:44
mean either, because it's still going directly into your bloodstream. So, and it's not like the pill has sugar like, you know,

Scott Benner 18:52
that's a strange carbs in it. That's really strange. I mean, if if it says there's a reason maybe there isn't just I can't imagine it. That's all. Well,

Jessica 19:02
the, my ex at the time, like read the packet and somewhere on the packet, it says me increase blood sugar in diabetics or don't use the pre diabetic or something like that. Okay. All right, since this made an impact, probably for sure. Okay. Do

Scott Benner 19:17
you find that an oral contraceptive helps you with your blood sugar management?

Jessica 19:21
I'm not sure because I've only had that was the only time I've ever switched. I just switched back to oral meds. I don't have anything to compare it to. So I see. I don't know. Yeah.

Scott Benner 19:30
Where are you? What are you find your blood sugar's different to manage different times of the month?

Jessica 19:36
Absolutely. Yes. It is harder to manage the second week specifically like around the time when I normally might be ovulating and then it tends to I tend to go low, the week of and or the week prior, the event itself and the week before Yeah. Which is strange. I don't really have much. Sometimes I don't have any bleeding at all. I went to an OB GYN and he the vibe was do you want to be pregnant? Oh, no. Okay, you're fine. So he didn't seem to care much about that. But I do have more blood sugar fluctuations. If the period if I actually get a period or if I'm, hey, you have more PMS symptoms or something like it's a heavier, that's interesting cycle. I do have more issues. Hmm.

Scott Benner 20:23
I wonder if you have less of a hormonal impact than then what you're what you'd be expecting? Because if it's not like, yeah, because what are we calling like an impact on your blood? Sugar's is that like a percentage of insulin more that you need when it's difficult to manage? Yeah. You think it's 10% 20? What do you think? Oh, I

Jessica 20:44
don't know. Honestly, my strategy has been take 14 units of long acting the first week or three and things if I start going low more than I'll take one less unit. And then if that's if I'm still going low, maybe take two less units.

Scott Benner 21:01
What Basal are you using?

Jessica 21:02
vs. Not vs. Sorry, that's my Yeah, that's

Scott Benner 21:07
true, Siva?

Jessica 21:08
Why can't Joseba Yes,

Scott Benner 21:10
look at that. I was like, huh, which 1am? I guessing. Okay, and so true interest SIBO overlaps itself. So you adjust it, you adjust it down just by a unit if you're noticing a low blood sugar. Okay, interesting. So, there has been no anxiety since this two year period? Or did it? Did it persist?

Jessica 21:34
Oh, no, it just kind of went away. And now I just have, like, you know, you have like things in your life that make you temporarily anxious, you know, like normal reactions to things. But I haven't experienced severe what I would consider for myself severe anxiety like that

Scott Benner 21:51
sense. That's really interesting. Any other like mental health issues?

Jessica 21:57
No, I don't think so. I'm usually pretty easygoing, probably tolerate things longer than I should.

Scott Benner 22:06
That's such an interesting, more modern response to that question. Like, do you have any mental health issues? And you went? No, I don't think so. Like, well,

Jessica 22:16
I mean, that you there's a we have a lot more. Like in media, there's a lot more people talking about their issues. So it's like, okay, am I fine? Or? Because, you know, the the impression is, like, turns out, I wasn't fine. I had like bipolar disorder, or whatever the thing is, where people are like, Oh, my God, I didn't know I was living with this until I put it together.

Scott Benner 22:38
Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of fascinating, isn't it? The? Yeah, because there is I'm trying to think of what I heard recently. Oh, eating disorders. There was there was a therapist talking about in this article, that when, when we first you know, as kind of a culture of mental health people started understanding eating disorders more, they thought, like, well, let's make this public so people understand and can get helped. And then the incidence of eating disorders went up significantly. Now, is that because people now know what to call it? So it's being diagnosed? Or is that because you're putting it in people's heads? And they're like, oh, I have that. But they don't really? i That's such an interesting kind of social question. I find, like, I tend

Jessica 23:29
to lean towards that people are suffering with these issues, and they just didn't have a label for it. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:38
I'm so interested in that idea. Like, is it like a mass psychosis? Or is it just like, Oh, wow. I mean, because Could there have been that many things going wrong for people? And we just were unaware of it? You don't? I

Jessica 23:51
mean, I think so. Yeah, I think so. Something like when my grandmother was growing up, she she grew up in Oklahoma on a farm. And like her childhood sounded kind of not great. And I'm sure she has what we would call probably anxiety now, but you know, when you're growing up around that time, and it just is what it is, and nobody talks about it. And you just

Scott Benner 24:17
do you think she had a bad life because of it?

Jessica 24:19
But because of her upbringing? Yeah. She was the 12th child. And Bife, like, much younger than her other siblings, and they lived on a farm. And so she, you know, grew up working since she was really young, like on the farm. And she wanted to get the heck out of Oklahoma. So she was pen pals with my grandfather. Okay. And then she moved to Wisconsin with him, or he lived in Wisconsin, but she lived. That's where I live if you couldn't tell from my accent. No. Yeah.

Scott Benner 24:51
I got it. Yeah, yeah. But so your your grandmother was like, I need to get out of here so badly. I met a man through writing on paper and I'm gonna go to Wisconsin to marry him. Exactly. Wow, the world used to be a different place. And it

Jessica 25:06
did not work out for her either. I feel like my grandpa had a really tough upbringing. And he was born again, Christian, I guess at the time, right. And my grandma thought like, Oh, perfect, just what I need. You know, appearances can be deceiving, I

Scott Benner 25:22
guess. Yeah. Yeah. So your grandmother thought, I'll take some Jesus because I gotta get away from this giant family where I'm probably being ignored. And I'm anxious because I'm not even like, I mean, you know, people used to have kids just to work their land. Yeah, I wonder what that's like when you realize you're only here. Like as a as a farm animal. They don't I mean,

Jessica 25:44
I mean, kind of, and she didn't her mother wasn't super affectionate with her, either. So even though she was the baby, she just didn't get a lot of like, it sounds like affection from her mom. Yeah.

Scott Benner 25:58
That lady was probably exhausted. Oh, yeah, for sure. She probably had to carry her uterus over shoulder with a strap, like 12 kids. Oh, god. Oh my gosh, you just say?

Jessica 26:10
Oh, yeah, because I think like prolapsed uterus, and I'm a dog groomer. And there's, you know, some grooming groups where people post stuff and I went to school for a little bit. So like, I've seen pictures of what that looks like, and it's not great. No.

Scott Benner 26:26
sides coming out through your outsides. Yeah, yeah, not good. No, no, no, not good at all. The opposite of absorbing the absolute opposite of being absorbed by through your vagina. It's it's your it's being rejected through your vagina. Yeah, that's I'm just saying like, I don't know how you have 12 kids and then like, bounce the 12 foot on your knee and are like, Hey, sweetie, I'd be like, Oh, my God, I can't believe what have I done? You don't I mean?

Jessica 26:52
Yeah, I'm sure the as at least a few years younger than her. youngest sibling. Oh,

Scott Benner 27:00
my gosh, that's just crazy. Oh, all right. Okay. So you but you ended up in Wisconsin? Did she end up divorced?

Jessica 27:07
No, they stayed together. She She almost left him like three months into the relationship. She went back to not three months in I'm sorry. She had. I think she had had two kids by them. And she moved back to Oklahoma for like four months.

Scott Benner 27:25
Hey, Jessica, I don't know why you're breaking up. So

Jessica 27:28
a couple years into their marriage, that she did end up going back? I don't know why. Okay.

Scott Benner 27:35
I don't know why she went back. I say no, I don't. Well, you know, stability

Jessica 27:43
out here. And the first winter. Her husband and somebody else like they just left her alone in the middle of winter. She had to cut her own firewood. We Yeah, like she like it sounded really messed up. Like our first winter here was horrible. And Wisconsin winter isn't fun. It's really cold. There's a lot of snow. Like he just went to work or something I think, I don't know. About what year do you think this was? Woof. Probably in the early 60s.

Scott Benner 28:16
So he Penn powered his way to a lady to make babies for him and then just took off and went and did his own thing. Yeah.

Jessica 28:25
Like I said, she she thought like born again, Christian meant he was probably a good person and had his stuff together. And then he didn't.

Scott Benner 28:34
Yeah, I mean, I don't know a ton about it. I don't know a ton about it. But I I've always had the feeling that born again was was something that people were attracted to when they had had some fairly significant problems in their life. And they were looking for a reset.

Jessica 28:47
I don't know, maybe I've never really talked to my grandfather about it. Interesting. I never had a chance when I I don't know if he would have really had an answer for it. I don't know if he was super introspective. My grandmother is she's very intelligent, very introspective. But I don't think he really is. Or was, ya

Scott Benner 29:08
know, I mean, I don't know how much room would you have for that in your life? And you know, if that's how you're living like to really think about your motivations. Yeah, yeah, that's a fairly new thing for the masses to be doing over the last maybe 3040 years.

Jessica 29:23
So our benefit or No, I

Scott Benner 29:26
don't you know, I can't tell sometimes like maybe, maybe ignorance is bliss, right? It

Jessica 29:31
sometimes it feels like maybe there's a joke, you know, like Millennials know what, we know what's wrong with us, but we still can't really do anything about it.

Scott Benner 29:40
You know, well, that was kind of my point earlier like, I wonder I wonder what why does it matter? Like if you're okay, why does it matter? Oh,

Jessica 29:49
I think it's more people that feel like they're not okay. Maybe that it's more valuable for

Scott Benner 29:55
Oh yeah, well feeling okay. And being okay, I think are two different things like the I mean, there's nothing anybody who would like say like, oh, yeah, everything's perfect. Like, like, I guess maybe my expectations are just super low.

Jessica 30:08
My expectations tend to be low as a strategy. Yeah, like, not really low, but I don't expect everything to work out perfectly. And then when it works out fine, I'm really happy.

Scott Benner 30:20
Yeah, like, I opened my eyes the morning, I'm like, I've already won, like I'm alive. And then you know, like, the day goes, how it goes, I don't judge it. Like, I don't care. I can never carry one day to the next. Like, I don't I agree, never been like that. Like I just like yesterday, I had, like, a long day yesterday of thinking about the podcast and trying to like it was doing a lot of background stuff that you guys don't see, like invoicing and like having conversations with people about ads and like being upbeat. And meanwhile, I'm just in the back of my head, I'm just always thinking about how to grow the podcast, right. And I took this whiteboard in front of me, and I wrote big ideas on it. At the end of the night, I had a whiteboard, I didn't whiteboard, it said big ideas on it. I was like, ah, and you know, at the end of the day, I was disappointed. I was like, I really did not, I didn't come through today the way I thought I was going to. And then I woke up this morning and never thought of it again. And nice. Yeah, I am of the mindset, like my wife will make a list of things. When I first met her, she'd be like, this is the to do list, right? It's one to 10. And all the sudden Number four would become very important. And her thought process was, well, we have to get one, two and three done. So we can get to number four, it's very important. And I would just reorder the list and put forth the top. Right? And yeah, it was interesting how that didn't work for her. She's like, No, all these things are important. And that facilitated a conversation where I ended up finally saying, I don't think anything on this list is important. Unless it is unless it becomes emergent. Like it's it's just not important. Like I had a weed growing in the back corner of my yard for a while. Right. And it was behind the shed, and I couldn't see it. And it grew for so long that it got Woody, like it turned into like a tree, almost, you know, yeah. And I see it once in a while. I'm like, I should cut that down. And then I just didn't have time. I didn't have time, I didn't have time. And it had and before I knew it, it had been there for five years, this little four foot tall little tree thing that never got any bigger and nobody ever saw. And it didn't matter. Like it doesn't belong there. And it should go away. But grand scheme, it has no impact on anything. And, you know, I wonder how often we get focused on things and treat them like they're super important, but they don't really have an impact on anything. Other than it's on your list. I don't know. There's a deeper conversation there. I don't think I'm prepared for

Jessica 32:52
Yeah, I, I don't know if I have that experience. Always. Like if it's a random thing like that, that I've just forgotten to do forever. And I come to it. When I end up completing the task, it's satisfying. But I'm not upset that it took me very long. But it's really nice to just get it done though. Like once it's done,

Scott Benner 33:13
right? No, I know, people feel that way. I'm even thrown off by that idea. Like it's satisfying. Like I did eventually cut the weed down. And I have to be honest with you. I did not feel accomplished or satisfied. I

Jessica 33:25
was so sad. Yeah, it's Yeah, I think I'm somewhere in the middle where like, you know, something's in the back of my mind, and I can just take care of it. And it's gone. Yeah, that's nice.

Scott Benner 33:38
I also didn't get to grow up, like, expecting to like my work even. Oh,

Jessica 33:43
yeah. I don't know if I grew up that way. But I ended up sort of living my life that way. And that's nice. You

Scott Benner 33:51
do think you do something for work that you enjoy? Yes. Yeah, it would never occur to me.

Jessica 33:58
It didn't when I was growing up. I just stumbled into it and realized, Hey, I like this, I'm gonna keep doing it. Even if I could get a job that maybe pays better. I don't want to be, you know, upset with you know, I don't want to live most of my, you know, a lot of my day doing something that I don't like doing.

Scott Benner 34:17
Did you have a lot of like, financial support? Like if you didn't work? Would you have been okay for a little while?

Jessica 34:23
I don't know. I went to school for a while. And I lived with my parents. Kind of until I was almost done with school. But if I hadn't have gone to school, I would have just started working. Yeah,

Scott Benner 34:36
I I took my first job because it was available to me. And I had I had to have money.

Jessica 34:42
I didn't have to have money, but it was like, I mean, kind of, but like I said it would have been either or either go to college or start working. And I well, I did both kind of but I was working part time.

Scott Benner 34:54
That's interesting. Okay, we should probably talk about your diabetes. So maybe a little Huh. So let's talk about it then. So it's been three years, your MDI, what are your goals? Are you reaching them? How are you doing it?

Jessica 35:10
I'd like to have an agency of six. I've been at 6.5 pretty consistently, which I'm a little disappointed by, but it's fine. It's okay. I did get a spy point seven, my second to last day when see, but I was trying to be more aggressive, and I ended up feeding insulin all the time. Okay, so that wasn't like, I didn't reach that number. Honestly, the way Yeah, obviously, way I would have liked to so. So what's

Scott Benner 35:41
the difference between 6.5? And six? What are you not doing at 6.5? That you probably are doing it six.

Jessica 35:49
I think it's, I'm not dosing for meals maybe correctly, because I do end up correcting often after I eat. Okay. And maybe Pre-Bolus Singh, I do Pre-Bolus. But it's not always exactly the same time, every time. And for lunch, I often can't Pre-Bolus Or I'll go low. If I'm working. My insulin needs are different for lunch that it would be any other day. I say. I'm usually about eight to one. But for lunch, I'm 12 to one and I typically don't Pre-Bolus Or I'll go low.

Scott Benner 36:21
Okay, so it's a little bit of timing and a little bit of a mount that. And that when that shifts the wrong way you lose about a half a point and a one say probably that makes sense to me, by the way. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica 36:34
It makes sense to me. I'm just having a hard time fixing it, which is frustrating.

Scott Benner 36:37
So is it a you're having trouble fixing it? Because you don't know what to do? Or you can't bring yourself to do it?

Jessica 36:47
It's more like, I don't know what to do. I guess I would do it if I knew it would work. Okay. I've had it happen a couple times where I've made a change and it went too far in the other direction. And it was like a minor change. So it's like, you know, I'm suspecting meat. I don't know. It's just figuring it just fine tuning it figuring out exactly how long do Pre-Bolus For or like, do I need one more unit of insulin? Or do I need to follow up with like a fat or protein adjustment or what

Scott Benner 37:22
you think lunch is an example it does that only happen when you're at work? Or does it happen lunchtime no matter what, only at work? Right? So so you're more active at work so you don't need as much insulin and because you're MDI you can't change your Basal rates while you're at work in like you would if you had a pump so you're trying to impact it through your carb ratio. But the truth is it's not enough insulin for the food so you get you have a spike at lunch that you don't see it other meals Is that about right?

Jessica 37:52
Oh no I don't spike I tend to spike before breakfast. And sometimes after supper lunch usually I don't spike unless I just messed up my dose

Scott Benner 38:02
No. So okay, so then so then you are managing it well with the different carb ratio at lunch but the activity is that important to you? That it changes your carb ratio by a third.

Jessica 38:14
Oh, by a third. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it also could be that I don't dose correctly for breakfast. And I'm often you know what I totally forgot to mention, I do often correct after breakfast. Nevermind, so I've got probably some act of insulin in my system that I'm forgetting to make like a conscious notice. So maybe that's why I don't need a Pre-Bolus for lunch.

Scott Benner 38:35
At work because if you didn't eat lunch, would you get low do you think? Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So okay, so go back to breakfast then you spike you get feed on the floor. Like your blood sugar goes up before you eat in the morning.

Jessica 38:48
No, it's only when after I eat if you

Scott Benner 38:52
eat. Okay, so you shoot your trusty bed in the morning? No, should you face the bed at night you get up in the morning. You eat and

Jessica 39:01
usually more often than not I'm I tend to be a little bit lower in the morning. Okay, and too high. I have tried my no one wanted me to and I've tried backing off my Joseba by unit. I just had a harder time in general with my blood sugar's and I was running higher at night than I'd like

Scott Benner 39:20
to. So you need the trustee with that level. So So what happens in the morning, what are you eating for breakfast?

Jessica 39:26
I usually eat oatmeal. It's like overnight oats. Kind of like oatmeal and milk, put it in the fridge overnight. Okay, take it out and eat it. I do probably overcorrect at breakfast when I get that spike after I eat. I probably am overcorrecting. I'm just incredibly impatient. And I hate to be at 200 Does

Scott Benner 39:48
that happen every day? Yeah. Can I ask you if you're seeing a spike after the oatmeal consistently, and then your bolusing for that spike? Why don't you take some of the insole On for the correction that you're using for the spike and just move it into the Bolus for the oatmeal.

Jessica 40:06
I've tried that. And sometimes it works. And sometimes it doesn't. What happens when it doesn't? Sometimes I go low,

Scott Benner 40:15
a little low. So through through kind of fear, you're waiting for the spike to happen before you add the extra. Yeah, I've

Jessica 40:23
been working on this for a while. Like I tried lowering my high, not too low. I was really aggressively correcting at the 160. And then I found I was running low a lot of the time. Okay. So sometimes I will go up to 160, maybe 170. And I'll come back down. So sometimes I shouldn't correct at that level. And other times I need it. And I'm just haven't put it together exactly when, yeah, I need to correct at that time. And when I don't. So

Scott Benner 41:00
it seems to me and not that you couldn't figure this out. But

Jessica 41:05
there's no I've been, quote unquote, working on it for a while. So you know, what, let me know what you got?

Scott Benner 41:12
Well, what I was gonna say is that I think it's partially because you're on MDI, that, okay, that you're having that you're having an issue, because you can't be as reactive to it as you would be with a pump. And like, you're like, you're waiting for numbers like, well, I waited till I was 160. But that was too aggressive. So now I have to wait till I'm 180s that I don't get low. And like, you know, with a pump, you wouldn't think twice about hitting 140 and using a fraction of the insulin to see if it worked. But when you're injecting, you're waiting for a moment when you can want like inject full units, right? Yeah, so instead of like waiting for a number and then putting in the full unit, you could be doing a quarter of a unit or a half of a unit for the pump, you could be bolusing a little more aggressively for the food and adding Temp Basal increase overtop of the oatmeal a little bit. And that way, if it was too much, you could just shut the Temp Basal increase off. If it was too little, you could be more aggressive with it. If you started to look like oh, I might get low, you could shut your basil off for 15 or 20 minutes. And like, there's more stuff you could do there with a pump that you can't do with with the MDI. I think that might be why you're not finding an answer, because it's a more of a fine tuning problem in a sledgehammer world.

Jessica 42:27
Yeah, that was kind of my suspicion. Was

Scott Benner 42:30
that what you were thinking? Yeah.

Jessica 42:32
A little bit.

Scott Benner 42:33
You should get a podcast. You should get a podcast. Tell people?

Jessica 42:37
I should, right? I already. Yeah. Right. So yeah, I was toying with getting an omni pod and getting the algorithm. I'm trying to buy a house right now, though. So I'm kind of worried about doing that and getting a pump. And I didn't really know how much of an impact I would see with it. Like if I got a pump. And I was getting about the same results I have now I don't know if it will be worth it necessarily.

Scott Benner 43:03
I see your point that because because the end, I was just looking at the number. Like they're probably saying six and a half. You're doing great.

Jessica 43:10
Oh, she thinks she told me to calm down. My last appointment, which was like last month, she was like you're doing fine. My other clients like, you know, Aaron, eight, nine, it's your fine, calm down. Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:23
well, two things. You can't measure your success against somebody else's lack of success. And that's, you know, yeah, my mom used to be like, you're doing great. And I was like, You're literally holding me up against my cousin who's been like jailed. I don't know how well you're doing. But But the other thing is, maybe if your doctor had like a little more anxiety, they'd be more focused. Maybe you could suggest Molly to them, for example, and maybe get her.

Jessica 43:50
I mean, you know, I'll get to know her for a couple more years. We talked about her dogs, she trusts me. So jump off for it, right?

Scott Benner 43:57
No, I mean, I just think it's a common. I think that's a great example of why people don't get help from doctors sometimes. Because they're like, Well, you're in range. Who cares? Let it be baby legs. What are you worried about? You know, you did? Now, you know, 10 years from now when the ADA lowers their target to six. She'll say, well, the ADA says their target six and, you know, maybe we should be trying something else. It's just kind of meaningless. Why people say things. Sometimes. If you're trying to get your a one C under six, then that's important. If that's what you want, you know, yeah, I think pumps the answer, but but it doesn't agree. You know, I don't know if it needs to be an algorithm right away or not. But you know, what? An algorithm like an on the pod five. I heard you bring up. Yeah,

Jessica 44:46
I would really like an algorithm. I think. It seems like it would be a little bit less work. Once you figured this system out, then. Yeah.

Scott Benner 44:53
No, it's not. Hey, so you, is this an insurance issue for you? Well, I

Jessica 44:59
haven't even looked into When I'm not sure my insurance does cover Dexcom, and it's not super expensive. I've had a couple of changes since I've been diabetic with my insurance. And they all cover it about the same. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:11
you're getting insurance through. I'm sorry, this will sound. I don't know how it's going. It's just like,

Jessica 45:17
you know, I tend to be conservative about wanting to spend money on large things like like that. So I'm just nervous about, you know, the cost. And Sure. Well,

Scott Benner 45:27
I mean, maybe you look into it and find out it's not a large cost. Maybe your insurance covers it, it's almost the insignificant amount. That would be nice. Be I have to ask you if this will sound wrong, and I apologize, but you get insurance being a dog groomer?

Jessica 45:42
Well, no. I buy marketplace insurance.

Scott Benner 45:46
Oh, okay. So you're kind of paying out of pocket for your insurance? Yes. I was like, how was that? How, like, what amazing place? Do you work where they're like, You're a dog groomer. And we would like to give you full benefits. Yeah,

Jessica 45:56
well, you can work at a corporate store and get insurance through them, but I would not recommend it. How come? Because I did that for a while and it sucks. Just I feel like in general, the animal industry can can be stressful. It like by its nature, and then you throw, like your managers telling you need to do more work for the same amount of money or enact extra policies and have no extra time for it. Things like that. It's not great. Everybody's stressed. And it's, you know, yeah. Not the best environment. No,

Scott Benner 46:30
my wife works in a corporate environment, and she will absolutely die sitting in a chair worrying. Oh,

Jessica 46:35
yeah. Yeah, it's like, and, yeah, I feel sympathy for anybody at any stage. I was at like, the bottom of the totem pole. But it's like, it's not, it's probably worse being my manager, and I was probably worse being her manager, and so on and so on. You know,

Scott Benner 46:52
I am really, like, pardoned by, like, grooming animals, and you're thinking of buying a house. And I thought, well, that's, that's terrific. Like that. Like,

Jessica 47:04
it can work out. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I'm not rolling in dough or anything. No, no, maybe a small house. But but you know, that's still

Scott Benner 47:12
pretty impressive to me. You're just generally like, I wouldn't have expected that. And I'm absolutely like, like, oh, wow, that's fantastic.

Jessica 47:21
I get a lot of people asking me how many days a week I do this. And I'm like, Oh, this is full time. Maybe? Like, five days a week. 10 hours a day. All

Scott Benner 47:31
the all the days. And please, please, please, please, tip? Yes, please. Please do. Are you selling the dog hair for like some nefarious thing? No,

Jessica 47:40
I don't think there's a black market for dog care. Unfortunately. Oh,

Scott Benner 47:44
if there was, can you imagine? Yeah,

Jessica 47:46
I would be down for it. Yeah, that's

Scott Benner 47:48
really kind of, you know, I don't know if I'm sounding like stuck up here or something? I don't I don't I don't I don't mean to like, I'm just like, wow, like, to me. That's the thing people do. I think of it as a cash business a little bit. But obviously, yeah, you know, and I don't know, just like, it's, I don't know, I felt good. Because you're in here's why. Cuz you're a single person. You described, I don't want to work in a corporate setting. So you're not, you're doing something that's not exactly like, you know, commonplace that people don't like when they're 16 Go, like I'm gonna grow up and be a dog groomer. So you're doing something you're enjoying, I imagine. And, and, and you have health benefits enough to manage your diabetes, which I think is the thing people worry about. And

Jessica 48:34
it's a crazy place. I didn't really know dog grooming was a thing until I sort of stumbled into it, basically. So it's just one of those things that you don't think of as, like you said, you don't think of it as like a career. I guess. In that way I imagined

Scott Benner 48:49
it is I just wasn't like, you know what I mean? Like, you're like, you don't hear people say like, when I grew up, I'm gonna be a dog groomer. You hear people say like, when I grew up, I think I'm gonna be an accountant or something. You know?

Jessica 48:59
You're like an electrician or Yeah, or whatever.

Scott Benner 49:02
Hey, do you ever have to express the dogs? anal glands? Yeah.

Jessica 49:05
Okay, it's less gross. The longer I'm doing it, and I'm starting to equate, like, every dog has got a different texture and like consistency and smell weight of their buttholes not their buttholes but like the anal gland, just like okay, liquid. Okay, keep going. Sorry. Okay, so I'm gonna be really gross. But if you're a dog groomer, you get used to it and you forget how gross you are and how much people hate this.

Scott Benner 49:34
Just guy gotta regroup for a second.

Jessica 49:35
I understand. I get it.

Scott Benner 49:38
Can I tell you the word that got me? What texture? Texture? Yeah, I I can't even begin to tell you like my whole self crunched into a tight little ball on like texture. There's texture to the liquid that Wait, hold on.

Jessica 49:54
I mean, I'm not touching it but like you know when it comes, that it can be varying. levels of viscosity like sometimes it's it's like runny and sometimes it isn't.

Unknown Speaker 50:04
Okay, stop. That was

Jessica 50:08
I know. Yeah, I went too far. That's it's gross. Yeah. Oh, you just kind of get used to that kind of stuff though.

Scott Benner 50:16
But I think it's fair to say that if you meet a new boy ever and he's into buttstock you'll just be like, whatever. I'm good. Oh,

Jessica 50:22
no. Okay, now. I'd be sad. Take some talking, talking me into. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:30
Well, that's interesting. Like, I'm now I'm like, I thought for sure you were just like, Yeah, whatever.

Jessica 50:37
It's different when you have to do it for your job on an animal that isn't a person and doesn't have a lot of thoughts about it.

Scott Benner 50:43
I'm sweating. I just want you to

Jessica 50:48
and people don't have like have anal glands? I don't think so. It's like,

Scott Benner 50:52
if it's possible, I don't know what a needle gland is. Wait, you don't it's possible

Jessica 50:55
that you don't explain I can give you the rundown. How do you do it? Well, I maybe not but so that they have a little sacks on the inside of their like rectum, like, around the anus. And when they go to the bathroom, it like puts pressure on the sacks and they like a little bit of like, in a land fluid gets on the like feces. And that's what dogs are smelling when they're like smelling all the dogs poop. That's like they're smelling that, that has like all sorts of information about the dog. So that's what anal glands are. If

Scott Benner 51:26
they hold that stuff, then why do they need to be expressed? Sometimes

Jessica 51:30
they get clogged. So if your dog all of a sudden his butthole starts like, like if he's got too hard lumps, like four and eight o'clock on a clock, or if his like, it just looks swollen back there, that might be the issue. If they're scooting a lot or licking their butt a lot. It happens with small dogs pretty often, where they they just have issues with or if your dog isn't going to the bathroom regularly, or it's really runny or something and they're not getting expressed on their own then they can have issues. Okay, Jessica,

Scott Benner 52:01
I just below whole thing. Or is that upon? It's a whole thing.

Jessica 52:08
No, it wasn't meant to be it could be so.

Scott Benner 52:11
So I the entire time you were speaking. I'm just I'm waving air into my face. I'm like, I don't know. Nauseous is almost the word. Oh,

Jessica 52:22
I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. I

Scott Benner 52:24
asked you to do it. I wanted it done. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah,

Jessica 52:29
that's it.

Unknown Speaker 52:30
What's that cost?

Jessica 52:31
$10 Oh, no.

Scott Benner 52:33
We're not charging enough money for that. Probably

Jessica 52:37
not. So the the way the vet expresses them and the way I do it is different.

Scott Benner 52:43
Up Play music. No,

Jessica 52:46
I do it externally. And the vet will like do it internally while they're like, kind of assault your animal a little bit to express them that way.

Scott Benner 52:53
Oh, so if I want buy stuff, I gotta find a vet.

Jessica 52:56
Yeah, if you want like serious about stuff, you gotta go to the vet for sure. Because they're

Scott Benner 53:00
used to putting their fingers in there working around a little bit. Yeah,

Jessica 53:03
yep. And I just pushed from I feel from the outside and like, push up and out.

Scott Benner 53:07
Oh, usually work. So you're wearing gloves up your shoulders when you're doing this or me? Let's say yes. My God, not always gloves. Well, I'm

Jessica 53:17
doing it in the bathtub, right? Because I'm gonna wash everything in there, including my hand. You know?

Scott Benner 53:30
You should be medically sealed outfit when you do.

Jessica 53:33
I don't think there's like zoonotic diseases that can be passed on with AnnaLynne fluids. So I think it's good. I think it's

Scott Benner 53:39
okay, but they all smell different.

Jessica 53:42
Um, there's like, you know, three or four different smells. It's all bad.

Scott Benner 53:48
Yeah, I mean, it all sounds really bad you Rach in the beginning.

Jessica 53:52
I've only gagged once. It was really weird. Like I haven't. I think I have a pretty strong stomach. Obviously, because I talked about anal glands for how long like 10 minutes?

Scott Benner 54:02
Not not long enough if you asked me.

Jessica 54:07
But I was work when I was working at PetSmart I was working with a coworker and I asked her for help because I wasn't eight. I wasn't just not getting it. And she came over and for whatever reason the smell made us both gag. And that's not typically the case. Usually I can handle it. Every once in a while though. It's bad.

Scott Benner 54:28
Okay, and dollars. Yeah,

Jessica 54:30
yeah. It only takes you know, a minute. It takes like 10 seconds. I

Scott Benner 54:36
don't care. My minimum is 200 bucks. If you want that done. That's just to get me out of bed for it. I'm not doing it for less than that.

Jessica 54:42
Well, if you need that done on your dogs, then you know you can well you probably I don't know what you probably don't take into a groomer I imagined they're they're like bully breeds or something. Yeah,

Scott Benner 54:52
they're short haired dogs think they don't Yeah, so they don't need much bigger they get a bath once in a while. Like when they stay if they bored somewhere. Unlike do their nails, give them a day, you know? Yeah. But there's no hair cutting. The hair is just all over my house.

Jessica 55:06
Yeah, it's a trade off either you have to deal with the dog matting or there's hair everywhere. My good one or the other. Wow,

Scott Benner 55:14
this is absolutely horrifying. Jessica, thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. You were being underpaid?

Jessica 55:21
Probably. No.

Scott Benner 55:22
Stop it. You were being okay, I had to take a sip. I need to I need to center myself. Yeah, if you need a minute, are you kidding me the minute. Wow, I really my brow got sweaty. And like oh my god, I was really like, upset.

Jessica 55:42
That is the the grossest thing I have to deal with nothing tops. Like, how gross that is. Oh, I lied. That's a lie. But routine day to day. That's the grossest thing.

Scott Benner 55:52
Wait, wait, wait, what's the grossest thing if that's not like

Jessica 55:55
bad teeth, or like a wound that an owner didn't know about until I shave the hair off and find it? Like, that kind of stuff happens occasionally. Yeah, that's, you get Ben. Sometimes they bite you. Yeah, sometimes often, it's for nails or something like that. Some dogs really, really hate their nails done. Or they're not used to grooming and they're really anxious. I've had people I had somebody who had a ciaochao They're like, really independent dogs, and they don't like strangers. And this guy kind of had a hard time grooming his dog, but he thought he would take it to me to see what I could do. Which didn't work out. And that dog would bite at me for sure. You learn to see it coming and you know, you get fast. And then obviously, if it's really bad, you you know don't groom that dog anymore. Scott,

Scott Benner 56:47
my fast twitch muscles are just out of the way. Boom. Cool. Snapping Jaws going all over the place. They bad teeth can smell right.

Jessica 56:56
Oh, really bad. Yeah. Okay. And they can get like abscesses and stuff, too. What's

Scott Benner 57:01
the best way when you cut a nail too far and it bleeds? What's the best way to stop it from bleeding?

Jessica 57:06
We have quick stuff that we put on it. So it's like a powder that will? I'm not exactly sure, but I think it helps the blood clot. Yeah, so you put it on the nail. And usually I don't click them too bad. It's just like, you know, one little. You just put a little quick step on them. And they're fine.

Scott Benner 57:24
I had somebody tell me recently a moist bar of soap. Just drag the nail through it to clog it up. And I was like, Ha

Jessica 57:30
that's never heard of that. Yeah. Cornstarch works. If you have cornstarch at home.

Scott Benner 57:34
I've seen that too. Cornstarch baking soda. That kind of stuff can help too. Okay. Do you think you're gonna date again?

Jessica 57:43
I'm working on it. Yeah. Yeah. As of recently.

Scott Benner 57:47
I mean, what do you put on your profile? I can take harsh smells like that would?

Jessica 57:51
Oh, god. No. That's exactly the opposite goal. Yeah, right. Right. Clean, please. You're

Scott Benner 58:00
learning from your great grandmother. She I guess she was like, she had her bar set too low. And you're like, No, no. Yeah.

Jessica 58:08
Ah, man. So yeah. So yeah, I'm working on I've been on a couple of dates. I have a, I think a little bit of a commitment issue. So it's interesting, I'm trying to like push through that. And kind of just from the last point out there, from the last one, and maybe the first one, I've only dated two people. So the first one I was with for a really long time, nine and a half years. And the second one I was with for about a year and a half. But I got into that one too quickly. And then I waited a while to break up with him. Because he had some mental health issues. And I wanted to make sure he was like, set up in life better than when I got to him so that when I left him, hopefully he wouldn't destroy it all.

Scott Benner 58:50
How do we find a boy for you? Who doesn't have mental health issues? I think that's a good first step.

Jessica 58:54
I don't know. And I don't know what the bar is for like, what is probably behavior that they can work with themselves and what isn't? How many

Scott Benner 59:09
people do you meet that are like, not whatever quote unquote, normal would be like, get up do a thing? Well,

Jessica 59:17
I don't know. Well, the second one, I got into that relationship too quickly, too. I mean, he was, you know, generally like get up, go to work go home, but he definitely had like some alcohol issues that I kind of knew going in and I should have just not messed with it.

Scott Benner 59:35
That's the constant. Jessica that's the West. That's the Wisconsin

Jessica 59:39
is too I don't know if it's the Wisconsin per se it definitely is.

Scott Benner 59:43
It's too cold there.

Jessica 59:45
It's it is cold. It's like 80 degrees today, though. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:50
I know. But in the winter, I'm saying you're stuck. You're inside the Packers have sucked for years. What are you gonna do?

Jessica 59:55
You can play d&d Instead of going to the bar every day. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:59
but I don't know. Also, we need we need somebody in your relationship that can handle a corporate environment. I'd like to see, I'd like to see you on some good insurance. You don't

Jessica 1:00:08
I mean, maybe help me super duper. Yeah, I would love that. Like, maybe

Scott Benner 1:00:12
you're thinking a baby or there's that no plans?

Jessica 1:00:16
Not in the plan.

Scott Benner 1:00:17
Can you tell me why?

Jessica 1:00:17
I just have never wanted them. And I've I know, I'm not too old to start trying. But I it feels that way to me. But it's mostly I just never really wanted kids.

Scott Benner 1:00:27
You know, I mean, in early 30s, like, I take you at your word. Like, if you were like, right, if you were, if you were 21. And you're like, I don't want a baby, I'd be like, Well, hang on, let's wait and see what happens. But, like, in your early 30s, I figured this is a like a conscious decision. So

Jessica 1:00:43
well, I felt this way forever, basically.

Scott Benner 1:00:47
So I don't want to screw a kid up. No, I just don't want to do it. Just don't want you don't want the responsibility. Maybe? I

Jessica 1:00:56
don't know, I think I'd be a good mom. If I wanted to be like, I don't think I would do a bad job

Scott Benner 1:01:00
afraid of passing on diabetes.

Jessica 1:01:02
No, because I, I kind of made up my mind about kids. By the time it was like, you know, 25 if

Scott Benner 1:01:09
you wanted to do it, you do a good job at it. Yeah. Like,

Jessica 1:01:13
you know, as well as you can do I know, it's, you know, like, you go in thinking like, I know exactly what to do with this is gonna be awesome. And then you're like, Oh, I screwed up their website. You shouldn't have done that. You know, like, I know, it's not easy.

Scott Benner 1:01:25
Do you have any of those feelings? Like, oh, the world's not a fertile place to bring children into give those thoughts?

Jessica 1:01:32
Yeah, like, there's too many of them. And they don't nobody needs mine.

Scott Benner 1:01:37
Oh, wait a minute. Oh, selfesteem. No, no, it's not

Jessica 1:01:41
my kids would be so smart. They would be amazing. But nobody needs like, we don't need more. I could just adapt. If I wanted. You

Scott Benner 1:01:48
might not get a good work with that. Like, look, my parents adopted. Look what happened to them.

Jessica 1:01:52
I mean, it's a shame. But you know, you just got to take a risk. And having your own kids is a risk to like you don't know. You don't know what how it's Well, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:01
Can I I'm gonna ask a different question. This obviously, this whole conversation got like, bummed puzzled by what happened in the beginning, but I'm still having fun. So I don't care.

Jessica 1:02:11
Oh, it's fine. As long as everybody else isn't hating this like cluster, but it is. I think it's good. I think we're doing okay, yeah, we're

Scott Benner 1:02:20
fine. You're, you've only chose two boys so far. And they've both kind of had the same vibe.

Jessica 1:02:29
I know. That's the scary thing.

Scott Benner 1:02:31
Are you bad at the picking part? Probably right.

Jessica 1:02:34
I gotta be bad at the picking thing.

Scott Benner 1:02:36
Why? What are you attracted to? That ends up not working out? I'm not sure.

Jessica 1:02:41
Well, the second time around, he had some qualities that I really liked that were different from the first one. But they kind of ultimately had the same core issues with like, emotional vulnerability. So as much as I would like to think that I'd like to pick someone who is emotionally like capable of sharing with me, it doesn't seem like that's my MO, which is annoying when

Scott Benner 1:03:06
they don't share. How does that hurt your experience?

Jessica 1:03:10
I feel like they don't trust me enough to share their life with me like their mental struggles and stuff. Like if you're not willing to share that with me, then why are you bothering your time with me? Like, and I understand it's hard to do that I probably struggle with that a little bit. Like, that's the point of having a relationship is having someone to share with

Scott Benner 1:03:28
Yeah, no, I understand. I just I'm trying to understand further. If someone's not as open with you as you want them to be it makes but the the part that I got tripped up on was if I'm not, if I'm not honest with you, then you think why, like, what's wrong with me that they don't want to be honest with me? Whereas I would think there's something about them that keeps them from being that way?

Jessica 1:03:53
Well, yeah, it's there is something about them that makes them want to be not to be honest. Yeah. And I can't like fix that. I can't just flip a switch and make them feel like they can be honest.

Scott Benner 1:04:06
And all that it's, let's say ask like a fan smash me. Let's just ask I have big like, made up thing. Let's say I have an underlying problem. You and I get together. Okay? I never share this problem with you. And it never becomes obvious to you through our entire relationship. Did it matter that I didn't share it with you?

Jessica 1:04:24
It depends on if it's having a major impact on you or not. I guess it would bother me a little bit if you're like, oh, yeah, I've been terrified of heights this whole time. Every time we walk on a bridge, I want to cry. And I had no idea like that would make me feel a little upset. Because

Scott Benner 1:04:43
I kept it from you or because I didn't share it with you. Probably

Jessica 1:04:47
more the sharing.

Scott Benner 1:04:51
Do you worry that you're not a person people want to share with Hmm,

Jessica 1:04:54
this is why I need therapy because I'm not introspective enough sometimes. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I feel Like I'm a good listener, and I'm a better listener than I am at getting people to listen to me,

Scott Benner 1:05:05
I guess. Because what I'm hearing is that you want things from people that they don't give you. And that makes you feel bad. It makes you feel bad, because why would they not tell you?

Jessica 1:05:18
Okay, yeah, I see where you're going with. Yeah, right.

Scott Benner 1:05:21
But what if they just can't tell you? Like, what if they couldn't tell anybody? It has nothing to do with you? I

Jessica 1:05:26
mean, there's varying degrees of it, right? I mean, it would still like, I wouldn't say it wouldn't bother me at all. It's it's more of like if it becomes an issue and their mental health and their daily life, and then they're freaking the heck out over there. And I have no idea what's going on.

Scott Benner 1:05:40
You don't like the uncertainty? Yeah. Do you have thoughts that you didn't share with your boyfriend's? Probably?

Jessica 1:05:48
Honestly, I don't. It's hard to remember exactly what I was feeling at any time. May

Scott Benner 1:05:54
I May? I guess you do. I think everybody has thoughts that they don't

Jessica 1:05:58
share. I mean, probably Yeah. Yeah. Well, the first one, we were together for a really long time. Too young. Yeah, too young went into it too fast. Again, that's, that's the thing I'm working on that doing. I don't know, he just never shared very much to begin with. So I didn't share very much, I guess. And he wasn't super like, I don't know that he didn't, there was something up with the first one for sure. Like he had his own stuff going on. I'm gonna

Scott Benner 1:06:24
tell you something that I've been thinking about lately. Sure. I grew up, my father left my mom when I was like, 13. So I was mostly raised, you know, in a family together when I was younger, and by a single woman when I was older. And the message from my mom was Be nice, be kind, be caring, be gentle. This is what women want. And I look back now and I realized that's what my mom wanted. It's not what women want. It's what my mom wanted. And bass, and my mom was plenty happy being with a guy who kind of took control and like, did like Guy things. Right up until she realized that he was cheating on her and then their relationship broke up. But prior to that, she was very happy that way. And so I think I modeled myself towards compassion and being concerned with other people's feelings. When sometimes, you know, your interests are not interesting to me. Like you don't I mean, like, it's, which is fine. But I put myself out there, and I do that. And what I've learned over the years, is that the women I find that's not really what they want. It's interesting, like, like, everybody says, like, be nice, be kind, be gentle. And not that there's not a space and time for all that. I'm not saying I'm not saying certainly like I'm not saying like, I have a club in my hand and I, you know, dragging people by their hair, like a caveman. Like, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that. Like, there's more like, classically masculine traits, that sometimes I think guys can hide thinking that's not what you want. And then they feel like they're hiding themselves. And then you can feel that they're hiding something from you. Hmm, that's all.

Jessica 1:08:13
Yeah, I get the vibe a little bit. Yeah, i i Do you feel like I don't? I don't know if I'm getting a read on somebody until I've hung out with them a lot. And then you start to figure it out a little more. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:08:27
No, no, it's hard to be yourself. Because yeah, yes, expectations of what you think people expect, except you might not be expecting the same thing that I was told to give. It's very interesting. Yeah, I find it I find it interesting. I think you'll not you, but in general, you're part of a generation of people who want things to go right. And you want to check in you want something to be comfortable for you. Like, you know, like, I very easily could still be working in a sheetmetal shop. I swear to you, like that could very easily be happening. And I hated it. Like, I Well, that's unfair. I didn't hate it. I just didn't like it. But I didn't have any expectation that I was supposed to like it. So it was okay. Like I got ya toil bidding,

Jessica 1:09:12
I think my parents working experience is probably similar to like, you just get a job and you do the job. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:17
And then that's then that's that. But yeah, you know, it's, um, as far as that reflects on relationships, about, you know, I want the thing I want. I don't know it's a stranger in a world where people don't actually share how they feel until you get very intimate with them and then sometimes not even and but you want honesty and clarity and which is absolutely. Like, I'm not saying you shouldn't want that. I'm just saying that. I don't know if you can get it from people all the time.

Jessica 1:09:48
Yeah, that's the difficult thing. And you know, I'm still working through like, okay, like, it's kind of hard for me to read people like I can't go on one date with someone then decide like, this is it you know, It takes me a while to, like, get used to people and figure it out and stuff. So

Scott Benner 1:10:05
yeah, I can't imagine anywhere where that would be, like, accurate. After a date or something like that, or a couple of dates to really know somebody, I think you have to get into pressure situations a little bit. See how people react to? Yeah, kind of Yeah, you know, it's just interesting, because when, when my wife and I were first together, like I'm an I'm an action oriented, get things accomplished person. And then as you're together longer there, you know, you'll somebody will say to you, like, you know, you don't always have to fix things. And I'd be like, well, when, you know, for the first five years of our life, you were standing there waiting for me to fix things. And so like, that's my expectation of what you want. And then what you want shifts, and it's very interesting. I don't know, you should probably just go date a bunch of people with no expectations. Yeah, probably. That's all or don't I don't give it. To me. Just it's

Jessica 1:11:01
it's tricky, because I don't know, how many people is appropriate to talk to at the same time, and like yada, yada. Oh, you're

Scott Benner 1:11:09
worried about all that? Yeah, it's awful. Oh, what I worry about trying to put myself in your position? Yeah, I don't think I'd worry about that.

Jessica 1:11:18
Yeah, probably not. I do have an issue with obviously I the last relationship. I stayed with somebody for too long, because I was worried about their feelings. And I did learn a little bit of a lesson from that, but I haven't learned it completely. So you know, I don't want to be like, unfair to someone, I guess. But I guess that's just how it is. Would

Scott Benner 1:11:38
you be comfortable sharing with me? What it's like to have already decided that this is not the person for you, but you're still being intimate with them?

Jessica 1:11:49
I guess in what risk? Factor? It's not fair to them, because I think he could probably tell that I was sort of checking out. Right? I don't know. It's a weird. It's a strange situation it like, in some ways, it feels like, you know, it's probably it's probably better when you've decided enough is enough to just leave, you know, and like, there's some ups and downs. And you're like, Okay, maybe, maybe just just, it's just a down spot, and it'll get better. And then you wait a little bit. And that's not the case. And

Scott Benner 1:12:25
so just like little signs you can look for, like, yeah, and it's just it's just tough to like know, because because even when you spot them, the other person doesn't go Oh, yeah, you're right. I am not taking my bra off in front of you anymore. Because I'm not comfortable being like, topless in front of you. And like Nobody says that. But But somebody will be like, well, you know, why did you never get changed in the bedroom in the bathroom? Like what's going on there? Like nothing? Like it's always that like, nobody ever has the nerve to like, just go the rest of the way with it. And be like, Yeah, you're right. I'm, I'm Yeah, trying to keep you from seeing me because I'm not into this.

Jessica 1:13:00
Well, then he was never forthright about, like, I think when he started to have concerns, he never asked me directly about it at all. Yeah, it's so hard. So I mean, yeah, it's hard. That wasn't good for anybody. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:13:14
You don't want to you don't want to make that mistake again. No, do you think it's possible that it's just not possible to be with somebody for that long and not have those feelings? Like, like I've been, I've been in a very long relationship, I can tell you like, it ebbs and flows. Well,

Jessica 1:13:31
this know that the second one, I was for sure, like, pretty, you know, early ish, you know, like, eight months or so I was like, Yeah, I think we're done. But I didn't want to sabotage his life by leaving, I guess, which is not the correct way to look at it. But I knew it would be really tough. But no, for sure. What the first one? Like there's definitely, you know, nine and a half years into that one. There's definitely ebbs and flows. Yeah, for sure. Like, that's just how it goes. You know, you have times where you're not feeling emotionally, like connected for a while. And then for whatever reason, it kicks back up, things are really good. Like, I expect that to happen. Yeah. For sure.

Scott Benner 1:14:14
How much of your diabetes Did you share with with these guys? The

Jessica 1:14:19
second one, a lot. He was really good. He paid a lot of attention. I think he would have been really good at potentially caring for me if I needed it. He was really thoughtful in that way. He really paid a lot of attention. The first one it kind of freaked him out. He was, I think concerned about what it would mean and he didn't know how to like help me with it. Yeah, and, and then it just stressed him out. Gotcha. But then you didn't you didn't ask any questions or anything at all even.

Scott Benner 1:14:53
Ya know, I've often wondered how crazy that must be to be with somebody for that long not actually be like you guys are together, but you don't own anything together, you're not actually married. And then this big thing comes in, and it's not hard to go, I wasn't expecting that, like, I'm not, and you're already not. It's not like you're like, you know, having a fairytale existence and just like, Oh, it's fine, whatever baby like, you know, it's almost like lose another thing. And you're and you're, then he doesn't respond to it. And you're probably thinking, well, there's another thing. He's not even showing any interest in this diabetes thing. And massively

Jessica 1:15:29
Yeah, I wasn't expecting it to be sure. Super. I never expected him to be super emotionally supportive when I was when we were at that point. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:15:39
It's very interesting. If you stop and take the whole story here, and like, think back to your grandmother, your great grandpa going to Wisconsin, and then leaving and coming back. And, and the idea of like, what's right for people? And what, like, what makes them happy? Like, there's just times where, I don't know if this is an unpopular feeling? But like, I don't think you're supposed to be happy every day.

Jessica 1:16:02
No, you're not I there's days where I'm in a bad mood. And it's for whatever reason, it's like, well, that's it for today, I'm just going to be in a bad mood, tomorrow will probably be better. And you just you just kept like, live with your feelings for a minute. You know, they're temporary always. And then it's going to be fine. Later,

Scott Benner 1:16:22
I heard somebody say recently, don't say you have anxiety, say you're experiencing anxiety. And that that's an important distinction. I'm gonna look more into that. I'm not sure if there's gonna be there or not. But

Jessica 1:16:36
I think it depends on whether maybe whether you have chronic anxiety or not. Yeah. But it might help with the way you think about it. Maybe you're someone that has chronic anxiety, you know, it might be easier to think like, this minute, I'm having issues, but maybe, you know,

Scott Benner 1:16:54
well, later, I won't sort of part of what I was talking about earlier. Like, you know, there's I don't doubt at all there are people who are under like, constant crippling anxiety. I'm not saying that. There are also people who just get the anxious situations and then say things, like, I have anxiety, like, Well, okay, yeah, cuz you know, you're walking along the rim of a volcano, this is gonna be an anxious situation, but you're gonna walk away from it eventually, and not feel this way anymore. It was first put to me by somebody who said, I have PTSD, like a diagnosed PTSD. And I don't like it when people say, Oh, that gives me PTSD. Because it's not really giving them PTSD. It's making them remember something unfavorably from their past. And they can walk away from it. I can't walk away from my PTSD. And I think that about like anxiety, to like, you know, there are obviously people who have it to the degree where they can't get away from it. But then everybody else sort of like jumps on the bandwagon. I'll tell you what I'm hearing a lot lately that absolutely, like boggles my mind to some level, adults who appear to be living 100% Fine, who are all of a sudden comfortable saying, I think I have a little bit of autism. Have you heard people say that? No, I haven't. Like God, I'm fascinated by like, I think, I think I might be autistic. I'm like, well, your blood is that mean, you're 45 you own a home, you got three kids, you go to work every day, you don't have trouble doing any of the things you're, you know, that you know, relating to people or anything. And like, I get the idea of like, I see that people will say, Well, there's a spectrum and I'm, I'm certain that's true. But my point is, is that there's a spectrum and you're all the way on the one side of it, where you have a character or a character trait that that can relate back to a thing doesn't mean you have the thing. That's

Jessica 1:18:41
the issue with like, it's a spectrum. The problem with the spectrum is you can put any spectrum in front of you and you could pick out a couple of things that you sometimes display, right?

Scott Benner 1:18:52
Yeah. Yeah. Like, like if Yeah, yeah, like if you're completely calm person who? I don't know, just goes off the handle. If one specific thing happens, I don't know that you have an anger issue. I think this thing makes you angry. And I don't know, I've just I've just seen people lately, say like, oh, like, I rub my leg when I'm nervous. Like, is that autism? Like? Is it autism? Like, like, why? Okay, like, Hey, Jessica, what I'm saying is, I think I've been dancing around it for like an hour now. I feel like everybody wants to have something.

Jessica 1:19:28
I feel like everybody wants to identify with a group of people,

Scott Benner 1:19:32
right? Oh, that's what I meant. But yes, yeah. Like everybody's trying to like pick a team. They're like, Oh, I'm Team autism. I'm Team anxiety. I'm team like, I have a thing to like I belong. And that's some, you know, as an older person, that's strange to me.

Jessica 1:19:48
I'm like, caught in the middle of it. It's like I sort of get it but I wonder. Like, General, things in life tend to be like, You swing back and forth. It's between things like, one extreme reaction. And then there's another extreme reaction that kind of goes back and forth like that politics is a really good example. Especially in the US. Like, it's like, everybody like Republican in the whatever branch. So I wish there was like a middle ground that we'd settle on, but there isn't, are just going to swing from one extreme to the other. It

Scott Benner 1:20:24
just it makes, it just makes me wonder if like, like, are you really any happier than your father? was? Was he really any happier than his mother was? Like, you know, like, or is this all just, like variations on a theme? And the theme is that everything's not always perfect. When you involve other people in your life, they have things you don't have, you're not always going to, like mesh together perfectly. We have this idea that we're going to, which I don't think is true, and you know, are we all reaching for something? It's not attainable? And Couldn't we just like, let it go and be happier? If we were just like, so not worried about everything fitting correctly? Or being 100%? Right, or whatever? I don't know. I just these are my thoughts today. You're getting them Pretty Unfiltered. Jessica. That's it.

Jessica 1:21:13
That's fair. That's okay. Yeah, I don't know I struggle with trying to place my opinion on things like that. It can it just can depend on the day, honestly, or who I talked to last? about it. Like if someone has more of an issue with a particular issue, like anxiety, I tend to feel a little bit more sympathetic, I guess, of course, but I understand what you're saying. We're like, at what point is it actually an issue and

Scott Benner 1:21:44
you just get up and go to work? And yeah, take care of yourself and love the people around you and do your best. And that's it. Like, why are we judging ourselves constantly.

Jessica 1:21:53
My only drawback is that I don't know what it's like to experience that. So it's hard for me to say, what is right or wrong about it? Because I, you know, I have a pretty laid back attitudes. So I just get up and go and do the thing. I don't struggle with it. Yeah, see that much.

Scott Benner 1:22:11
That's a newer, a newer concern, like social concern. Yeah. Like for other people, like, well, I don't want anybody else to feel XYZ because I'm, blah, blah, blah. And like, I'm gonna tell you that I grew up through a time where that was not the no one give a shit about other people. Like they and not that they didn't care about you. They cared planning and people were lovely. But nobody, I didn't work with anybody who thought, well, I won't be me so that you're not uncomfortable. Like that. That never was a problem. Like people just live their lives and everybody just dealt with it. You know? I don't know. Like, I don't know, it just feels like we're trying to fit something that doesn't fit. I don't know what it is yet. I haven't been able. That's

Jessica 1:22:51
life. No. Like, we don't live lives that our bodies are probably made to live in. And as a result, we get like, anxiety because, you know, yes, things that don't really matter. Because we're we're supposed to be just in constant worry all the time about not getting eaten. Or finding food.

Scott Benner 1:23:12
Yeah, yeah, we've definitely changed the landscape of what it means to be human. And our our bodies and our brains haven't caught up to it yet. That's

Jessica 1:23:20
for sure. No, and they never will.

Scott Benner 1:23:22
I don't know. I won't be I don't think it really engineers.

Jessica 1:23:26
I don't think we'll be around that long. Jessica. Why? I mean, how many how many species live for millions of years? We're

Scott Benner 1:23:35
gonna do it. Jessica. Don't you worry.

Jessica 1:23:37
I don't know. I'm

Scott Benner 1:23:38
gonna be fine. It's gonna be nose. Well, not if you don't make a baby. We got

Jessica 1:23:44
more out there. It'll be fine. We need more like you though, don't

Scott Benner 1:23:48
you think? Well,

Jessica 1:23:49
probably just a really egotistical thing to say.

Scott Benner 1:23:54
Just because like what the world needs is my spawn, but I will not be giving it. Yeah, it's fine, by the way, right? Sounds good to me. Yeah. Does that make it harder to date? Because your gift to find a guy who doesn't want a kid?

Jessica 1:24:06
A little bit? Yeah. Like the one guy went on two dates with is going okay. I did put on my profile specifically, like, I don't want to start a family. Like, you don't have kids and you want them. I in it. Like it's that's not I'm not for you, right. But I ended up going on a couple dates with somebody and he said, like, oh, yeah, I want kids. I'm like, Oh, you didn't read my profile? And I guess we're done. Trust

Scott Benner 1:24:30
me. You wouldn't be surprised how many people sign up to be on this podcast. And don't read the little tiny paragraph that explains to you how to do it and what you'll need when you get here. And I'm like, did you not read that? Like, I didn't see that? No, like, yeah,

Jessica 1:24:40
that's the thing. It's like, I don't know if anybody's reading this. And I'm putting on the profile. I don't know. You know, it's just,

Scott Benner 1:24:49
I bet you they're not.

Jessica 1:24:50
I bet you're probably not.

Scott Benner 1:24:52
There's just something about your bone structure and your hair color and your skin color. And a guy's like, oh, I find that. Uh huh. Yeah. Yep, that's it. That girl. That's yeah, legit. Yeah. And you're over there thinking like maybe I could build a life with him and he's like, I wonder

Jessica 1:25:12
if I could just hit that. Can I just exactly, you know? Yeah, so that's fun.

Scott Benner 1:25:18
Hold on You broke up. But did you say that's fun?

Jessica 1:25:20
tend to be you know, I filter out like, you know if he looks like a boy No, I'm not gonna

Scott Benner 1:25:28
wait if he looks like a if he looks like a what? You know, say that again? If he looks like a what?

Jessica 1:25:35
Like a boy like some of you just, you know, like, like he's taking Oh god, I got one. He said he was a doctor. But he only had like five pictures, but they were all from the chin down. Like, oh section. No Face pics, like nothing. I was like, that's creepy. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:25:54
was it an attractive midsection?

Jessica 1:25:56
Yes, it was. Oh, so

Scott Benner 1:25:57
he's trying to get you with his abs?

Jessica 1:25:59
I guess right. I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:26:01
Did he show you like down past the hips? No,

Jessica 1:26:05
it was like hip to hip to neck.

Scott Benner 1:26:08
Well then, so let me ask you something then then cuz we talked about the boys who probably just were like, oh, like she's pretty. I'll do that. Like, did you look at him and go, maybe I don't care. This face looks like for

Jessica 1:26:19
a hot second. And then I was like, I don't want to waste my time with like that. This could be a catfish or something. I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:26:25
Yeah, Dr. Abs. Dr. ABS

Jessica 1:26:29
Dr. Abs. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:26:32
He was also kind of far away. Which Oh, distance.

Jessica 1:26:35
I'm lazy. I don't I don't really want to move. And I don't really want to drive a lot.

Scott Benner 1:26:42
I got a radius. Yeah, I don't leave this radius. No. That's funny. Oh, my gosh. All right. Jessica. Is there anything we haven't talked about that you think we should have?

Jessica 1:26:51
I don't think so. Maybe the d&d again, but I know we did. Dragon. It's done and over.

Scott Benner 1:26:58
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, being a d&d player, like, you'd probably don't see a lot of ABS, right.

Jessica 1:27:04
Probably no. Well, a lot of the people I played with are women. There's only one man and he's got two ladies. So yeah, you know, yes. A little busy. But yeah, we just play, just play with women. We had a guy that was in our group, but he left and I don't think he's ever coming back.

Scott Benner 1:27:20
Have You Ever Have you ever thought about going and playing for the other team? I know, that's a weird thing to say that people would only say to girls and not the men but no,

Jessica 1:27:28
yeah. No, I did. No. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:27:31
It's fine with me. Yeah, I was just wondering, I catch

Jessica 1:27:34
a lot of from the two people who like are definitely bi or lesbian, but I'm like,

Scott Benner 1:27:40
No, for not giving it a world.

Jessica 1:27:43
I guess. Yeah. Local casino you, you know, gripe a little bit like man or girl sometimes or whatever. And they're like, it really sounds like you don't like men like, Oh, no. There's always something about the thing you like that you don't like?

Scott Benner 1:27:58
There's parts of it. I really likes to just calm down, basically.

Jessica 1:28:01
Well, you know, it's, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:28:04
well, listen, I'm gonna say this. You will probably save a lot of heartache. Not expecting boys not to be boys. Like, you should probably just expect that they're gonna I mean, be themselves to an extent. Yeah, right. I mean, there's a level of it that you could go like, that's too much for me. But I'm sure yeah, I just don't like I honestly don't think that I was really mature until I was like, in my mid 40s. Probably.

Jessica 1:28:32
And here I am thinking like, oh, people in their 30s Like, yeah, so mature. Wow. I mean, everybody's been nice. I haven't had like a bad experience with

Scott Benner 1:28:42
no, I'm a fine person at all. I just like my actual maturity level. Like and I pretty responsible person. I raise kids like I you know, diabetes, like, you know, pay for things like stuff like that, you know, get up go to work, like all that stuff. Like, I'm very faithful like that. All that stuff. But like, yeah, like still my my silly reactions to things still happen.

Jessica 1:29:02
Like, I mean, that's fine. Right? You gotta have a little humor.

Scott Benner 1:29:06
I don't know. I walk into the room and I go, Kelly, Kelly. And she's like, what? I'm like, nothing. I'm just sounding a Kelly alarm. It's just like, your 50 I'm like, Yeah, I know. But Kelly, just like shopping. I can't stop myself. I don't even like her. Yeah,

Jessica 1:29:24
I mean, that kind of stuff. Like, as much as I hate to say it. Your poor wife, but like, you know, you got to keep that kind of stuff up a little bit.

Scott Benner 1:29:32
I came in the room very exuberant the other day, and I said, Oh my God, how have we never tried the nicknamed Kelly bean? And she goes, No. And I'm like, you don't like it like jelly bean? And she goes, Yeah, I get it. And I was like, Okay, I was like, well then let it go. And she goes, Yeah, I will. I was like, Alright, so then a couple days later, I'm like, Hey, I

Speaker 3 1:29:51
just want to revisit this again. And she goes, What am I Kelly been thoughts and she goes hasn't changed and I was like, okay, and that was it. But I don't know where the I held that thought comes from, or why I said it out loud or why I revisited it because I literally just thought it was funny two days later to say it again. And she clearly is not amused by it.

Jessica 1:30:11
I don't care for it. Honestly.

Scott Benner 1:30:13
Can I be honest with you after I've gone over it a couple of times? It's off my list too. I don't like it either. Good.

Jessica 1:30:19
Yay. No, I'm glad I'm happy for her. That you finally decided it's not a good idea.

Scott Benner 1:30:25
I'm just trying to point out that I'm still an idiot. And I'm 51 and I'm reasonable about many things. And probably,

Jessica 1:30:31
I mean, I wouldn't say that being an idiot. A little bit. I think I'm gonna know but you're not like, I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:30:41
Well, what are you guys doing? That is so reprehensible. Oh,

Jessica 1:30:44
I haven't spent a ton of time yet around them. But like, I don't know, like drinking a lot things like I like I said, it's Wisconsin. Like I get it. It's a thing. Yeah, you're, like doing stupid stuff with their friend like really stupid stuff with their friends and you know,

Scott Benner 1:30:59
cutting holes in ice and going fishing. Yeah, maybe I don't get it making their tires too big on their truck.

Jessica 1:31:06
Yeah, that's a no go for me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:31:09
I see. Maybe you need to move. I

Jessica 1:31:11
probably should move. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:31:13
I don't do things. I don't understand. I don't understand. Like, you buy a car. Like that's the car like you're done. Yeah, like I could care less. Like, I like I like my car. But still like it came with what it came with. That's it. I'm done. No, I don't need a different wheel on it or something like that. Yeah,

Jessica 1:31:30
same. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, a lot of there's a lot of like, you know, just

Scott Benner 1:31:34
my, here's my, here's my, my out of left field hot take. You're gonna have two kids by the time you're 38.

Jessica 1:31:44
Oh, I doubt it.

Scott Benner 1:31:44
I know why you say that. Why? Because I think because you seem like a very. I don't know, I think there's a world where you could meet a person where you would have like a pretty big shift in your expectation for your life. You're possibly not flighty and you're not weird. Like you're not a party girl. Like you're not like, you're not shallow, like like not to say that you can't not have kids and be those things. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that. Like if I had to bet and by the way, I could be completely wrong. This is literally an up or down. But like, I think it's possible you bump into somebody who you really jive with and it makes you rethink things.

Jessica 1:32:21
I could see that happening. I'm like, if I had met somebody that I liked a lot better when I was younger. Oh, you

Scott Benner 1:32:27
think this is an age? Sure.

Jessica 1:32:30
No, not an age thing. What will the children think kind of at this point? Yeah, a little bit.

Scott Benner 1:32:36
Now. Your stuff still works will be alright. It still works, but

Jessica 1:32:39
I don't know. Then I then I have to. I don't know child rearing doesn't sound super duper fun. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:32:46
no, it's terrible. Oh, did you think it was fun?

Jessica 1:32:48
Oh my god. No. And I don't want to do it when I'm like, 40 that? Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:32:54
That I take your point. I'm like, I miss my kids being here. But like, my god, like, I don't think I could like, I don't think I could hop through it again. Like it's no, it's a long, so. All right. Well, we'll see you. I'll try to keep the podcast going for like, I don't know, six or seven more years so we can find out. Yeah, sounds good. I'll let you know. I appreciate this. Hold on one second for me. Okay. Sure. First, I'd like to thank Jessica for the hard work she puts in for those dogs and for coming on the podcast and sharing her story. We also want to thank cozy Earth and remind you to use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% off of everything in your cart. And last but not least the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next.com/juice box head over there. Now check out those Second Chance test strips get yourself a beat or you can buy them online. There's a Buy Now button. You can just check it out. Just use the website. Trust me. Oh, did I forget touched by type one? No, I did not touched by type one.org Find them on Facebook, find them on Instagram. Check out the good work they're doing on their website touched by type one.org. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Once there was a time when I just told people if you want a low and stable a one C just listen to the Juicebox Podcast. But as the years went on, and the podcast episodes grew, it became more and more difficult for people to listen to everyone. So I made the diabetes Pro Tip series. This series is with me and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist. She is also a registered and licensed dietitian and a type one herself for over 30 years and I of course am the father of a child who was diagnosed at age two in 2006. The Pro Tip series begins at episode 210 with an episode called newly diagnosed are starting over and from there all about MDI Pre-Bolus Sing insulin pumping, pumping and nudging variables exercise illness injury surgeries glucagon long term health bumping and nudging how to explain type one to your family. Postpartum honeymoon transitioning all about insulin Temp Basal. These are all different episodes setting your Basal insulin, fat and protein pregnancy, the glycemic index and load and so much more like female hormones and weight loss. Head now to juicebox podcast.com. Go up in the menu at the top and click on diabetes pro tip. Or if you're in the private Facebook group, there's a list of these episodes right in the feature tab. Find out how I helped keep my daughter's a one C between five two and six two for the last 10 years without diet restrictions. juicebox podcast.com Start listening today. It's absolutely free. Hey, I forgot this at the beginning I apologize. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.