Scott Benner 2/7/22 Scott Benner 2/7/22

#625 Divorce and Disagreement

Candice is a divorced mother with two children. Her youngest has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 625 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's podcast I'll be speaking with Candace. She's the mother of an 11 year old child with type one diabetes, and she is divorced from her children's father. Today we're going to talk about what that's like when you and your ex don't agree about type one diabetes. Today while you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, and you'd like to support type one diabetes research from the comfort of your home, you can do that by taking a survey in less than 10 minutes. I think I should have said in fewer than 10 minutes in fewer than 10 minutes at T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. There's links in the show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast comm it really only takes a few minutes

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by touched by type one please check them out on Facebook, Instagram, and it touched by type one.org.

Candace 1:55
My name is Candace and I have two sons and a 15 year old and I have 11 year old type one diabetic cannabis here

Scott Benner 2:03
we are together. I feel like you and I have spent some time online talking recently.

Candace 2:09
We have I like to pop up in one year lives and like you would just be and I was like super excited and squealed like a little fangirl like Scott's talking to me.

Scott Benner 2:19
It's very, very strange. And you should not admit to that out loud.

Candace 2:23
I'll own it out.

Scott Benner 2:25
I appreciate that. I know my wife popped into that live for a couple of months my daughter did through my wife and wow. So she sent me a message at like my wife, like through Kelly's account. And she I could tell she was teasing me when it went by. And as soon as I saw the words I thought Arden wrote that I think

Candace 2:44
are really saying that you're like there's no white way Kelly said that has to be my daughter.

Scott Benner 2:49
It was way too sweet. And like and so I was like this is not Kelly.

Candace 2:55
I love that you know that about?

Scott Benner 2:56
So and so she's messing with me. And I'm like, alright, but yeah, I thought that was great. I just, I came upstairs to edit the show one evening, and I just didn't have it in me to do it. And I was like, I'll just jump online and say hi to people instead. And then it turned into like a whole thing. A couple 100 people in there for a while. So

Candace 3:14
yeah, and it was late for you. Because here in California, it was probably like 830 or something or eight o'clock. So it's been late for you.

Scott Benner 3:21
I was just bored. And I didn't want to go to sleep. And I didn't I didn't. I just didn't want to edit a show. So yeah,

Candace 3:28
well, you had a couple 100 People who are all pretty excited and excited and fanboying and fangirling out to talk to you too. So

Scott Benner 3:34
very strange. How old was your 11 year old when he was diagnosed?

Candace 3:37
He was 11 he was diagnosed in November of last year?

Scott Benner 3:41
Oh, nine months ago? Yes.

Candace 3:45
So we're kind of still on the newbies of all this stuff.

Scott Benner 3:48
Okay. 11 years old. I'm making notes for myself. Also, people should know that I looked up saw that it was August. I immediately knew that August was the eighth month of the year and added one month.

Candace 3:59
Oh, you're so good at your stop math. Right, right.

Scott Benner 4:03
Because November, in November, there's one month left. And so maybe it's closer to 10 months, but I thought you would agreed at nine. So I said Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk for a minute about what that was like. So how did you figure out that something was up?

Candace 4:19
Kind of the standard. You know, my kiddos hadn't they had this kind of crappy health insurance through my ex for a year and they hadn't been seen. And it's like the pandemic and they were both were really healthy nothing coming up and I was just had recently had switched in my job to getting them on my health insurance and I immediately had scheduled a well check visit for both of them. And my 11 year old I'll just call him little dude. The little dude has always had a big temper but had recently and it had been COVID So it was kind of hard to know with throwing just massive tantrums every day, just flipping out over zoom Man sobbing and crying. And it was like not completely out of character, but the intensity and the frequency was up. And really the only other things where his skin got really dry and I was like lotioning this kid up every day, and he was drinking a lot of water. So we took him into the doctor's, both boys the same time doctors checking them out. He noticed with the 11 year old, he said, you know, my ex is a tall guy, he's six, four, and I'm five, five, and he and my other my older son is big. He's like six feet tall. And he's like, you know, a little dude is a little bit on the smaller side, I want to check his growth hormone or some hormone and so we're going to do a blood draw. Instead, okay? Bill, the 11 year old, he flipped out, he's never had a blood draw, I had to hold him down. We almost left that day without doing it. Because he was so scared. And they did the blood draw, and we went home. And I guess I found out later somebody had checked glucose, just kind of as a afterthought. It wasn't the doctor even who did it. And the next morning, we went, we left the hospital to after the blood draw, we went and got giant ice cream cones and sprinkles on top, actually have a picture of him eating an ice cream cone. It's like the last day that I knew everything was okay. And that at 730 in the morning, I started getting calls from the doctor saying you need to go to the hospital, your son has type one diabetes, and it was just like the day before Thanksgiving, and just like oh, crap. Okay. So we drove to the hospital. My ex husband was visiting his girlfriend's family, and they were in San Diego, and we're up near San Francisco. So that was pretty far I called him and he was kind of unsure, like, do I come back? Do I not I was like, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. So he ended up driving back, but we checked into the hospital. Kind of, you know, it was a whirlwind. It was really tough. My guy was a hysterical, you know, like, they came in to do the first insulin shot. And he we had to hold them down. I mean, he was just sobbing. It's too much. It's too much. I can't handle this. And I'm just like, holy crap. I feel like I went into like, hyperfocused mom mode, you know, with, like, we got this, we're gonna do this. And so yeah, we spent the next few days in the hospital, but it was also kind of the beginning of dealing with my ex. And, you know, my ex wife loves the boys. We've been divorced since little guy was 10 months old. And we've had a decent co parenting relationship. You know, in the beginning of our divorce, we did the whole, like nesting thing where like, the kids didn't move back and forth, like we did, you know, where he would come to the house, and I would leave kind of thing, okay. So we were able to do that for a number of years. Because, you know, the baby, he was so little the time it was like, I don't want him moving around. And my other kid was, you know, three and a half, four. And so we were able to co parent enough. But I've been sort of the primary caregiver, like, I'm the one who's been, you know, doing the appointments and camp and IEPs and doctors and kind of advocating for things and you know, they go to his house every other weekend. And it's kind of like, that's their thing. And they zone out and play video games. And I'm the one who's like, you know, camp in soccer, and, you know, parkour gymnastics and all that kind of stuff around he shows up for

Scott Benner 8:20
what everything else.

Candace 8:23
Yeah, everything else. Exactly. And I guess I just, I just kind of was okay with that dynamic, but within the diabetes, like, it became not okay. And it became very apparent even at the hospital. You know, he drove back from San Diego. And so he showed up at the hospital on Thursday, we had checked it on Wednesday, the 25th. And he, you know, he hung out for a couple hours and left, the all the doctors were like, Wait, where did he go? And I'm like, you left? And they're like, No, we got to teach you all. So my boyfriend's. And I've been together for 10 years. So he's known little guy since he's been, you know, 18 months old. You know, and we're camped out there. And they've got, you know, the dieticians and the Enzo and, you know, the nurse practitioner and all the people coming and doing the teaching, and everyone's like, Where's, where's the dad? And I'm like, he went, how, you know, I've called him, you know, whatever. It's like, you need to get him back. You need to get him back here. And I'm like, I have, he's like, I'll call back and put me on video. And I'm like, they're saying, You need to be here. They they need to show us stuff and like, oh, you know, I got this. I couldn't get him back. And then the hospital starts telling me well, we can't release your kid until all the adults now and I was like, well, then somebody from this hospital needs to call him because he's not going to listen to me. So we got together with them endo and the charge nurse and they call and I had their little meeting and then I guess somebody called him and so he showed up on Friday morning. And the boyfriend and I like took off because we realized like if we were in the room, we had so many questions were like, you know, neurotic Jews. So we had like, the lists of the what ifs. And what do we do when and we were sort of taking up all the space. And I was like, We need to get out of the room so my ex can just listen, and they can talk to him. So he stayed. Actually, he came in on Saturday, so he wouldn't come in on Friday. And that was the point we're kind of people were panicking, and like, how do we get them in here? So he came in on Saturday. Kind of got the teaching for that day, and they sent us home. And yeah, so

Scott Benner 10:28
I have questions. Sure. Okay. So he left and said, I got this, was there any reason to believe that he understood diabetes?

Candace 10:38
No, okay. He's, he's a he's a guy, you know, that has a lot of swagger. And like, he's kind of arrogant. And he believes he like knows stuff, even when he doesn't. And it's like, sometimes to a fault. You know, it's great to have confidence. But he didn't, you know, I think he was tired. He had just driven like, 10 hours, and he was wanted to go home and sleep. And I don't think he understood what this was. I think he thought, oh, you know, I gave a couple shots or something.

Scott Benner 11:07
Yeah. Here's the next question. So he's at the hospital prior to leaving. You're there. Your boyfriend's there as well, I imagine. Yeah. Is that just an uncomfortable situation for your ex?

Candace 11:18
No, you know, we've been since we've been together, we've been together 10 years, like we do Halloween together, we do birthdays together, like actually, my ex and my boyfriend get along better than my ex and I do. So I use my boyfriend a lot of the time to communicate with my axe, so they're good. They're totally fine. I have a picture actually, both of them sitting next to each other, like shooting on oranges.

Scott Benner 11:39
So okay, so alright, I'm just trying to figure out like that. So I'm gonna, you know, you're describing a person who is maybe has some false bravado about things. Maybe this was one of those situations where he thought, Oh, the BS way I usually get through stuff isn't going to work here. And then he just maybe panicked and laughed. Yeah, you know, and thought you guys are a family. You'll handle it. And then yes, yeah. Then Then I'll only be there on the weekends anyway, for video games. He didn't know exactly. Exactly. Video games were a variable for blood sugar.

Candace 12:13
Exactly, exactly. It doesn't know about the whole gentleman.

Scott Benner 12:16
But okay, so you see, you work all that out. I assume he got his instruction, and you got yours. And now you had home. I know. This is kind of off topic. Tiny bit. But did you try to have Thanksgiving when you got home? Or do you just skip it?

Candace 12:33
No, we just skipped it. It skipped it. It was at that point. It was Sunday, you know, so yeah, it was kind of done.

Scott Benner 12:42
I'm not making a turkey. No, no, although they're really cheap. Four days after Thanksgiving.

Candace 12:47
They must they must be I'm a terrible cook. So I wouldn't have cooked Thanksgiving anyway, we would have probably went to a restaurant.

Scott Benner 12:54
That wasn't a big deal. You know, I've never done that. That's interesting. Really. I grew up watching my grandmother prepare like a big meal and I almost robotically prepare the meal that she used to prepare ahead. It's amazing. While my family sleeps, I just get up. Lucky them. Nobody. Nobody helps me. It's okay. Because later when I do the dishes, and they don't help me,

Candace 13:16
you got to do the dishes after cooking. That's not fair.

Scott Benner 13:19
They're terrible. People really? I mean, I don't get that podcast. Deserve Yeah, too. Bad group. So alright, so your home now? You come home with needles and a meter. Yeah. And a kid who, three days earlier was punching nurses almost because you were. So how did that all work out?

Candace 13:39
He was unbelievably amazing. Within a few hours, this kid turned around, I would have never guessed it. This is a total wimp, like in life like I've always he's feisty and he's fiery. Any sensitive and I did not think this was gonna go out. But like he turned it around. Like, he just, I mean, kids are resilient. And he just was like, Oh, I get to eat as many cheese sticks as I want. I'm like, yep. Okay. And like he just kind of embraced it. He's like, I've got it. He's like, I have got a I don't forget and like a condition and it's incurable. Yes, you do. And we just yeah, he kind of was not cool with that I got him a lovey when we were there at the hospital I think in like in the you know, gift shop and like he named it Barrett. I'm a therapist and be like, you know, psychological about it. I was like, interesting. You name the kid, the stuffy beret. And he held on to that stuffy but he came home and he was just brave and he took his shots and, you know, we had him test all of our blood sugars. And we really just, we were like, We're gonna make this like as Chill as possible and as disruptive as possible. And he really went with it. And in sort of ways, we were lucky that it was a pandemic. He was doing school from home. And so I was working from home. So it made sort of dosing, lunch and all those things so much easier. And so it was kind of an easier way to start this.

Scott Benner 15:18
Yeah, a lot of consistency. Yeah. Okay. Is any of the Do you think maybe he calmed down when his blood sugar came down? How high was his blood sugar when he went in?

Candace 15:29
It was 580. Um, yeah, I think he's already kind of a moody feisty kid. But it changed. Like once he got home was on insulin, like the tantrums stopped the screaming, throwing stuff, like tantrums that he was having over school definitely stopped his mood was definitely different.

Scott Benner 15:50
What about the I can do this is that I, maybe I'm looking too far into this. Is that from the dad does he do the kids now that like? My understanding was,

Candace 16:04
he was very, like, I can do this in the sense of I don't want anything to do with it. You guys do it all. Like, don't ask me like, you know, the beginning of like, how many you know, chicken nuggets? Do you think you're gonna eat how much this and it became like, don't ask me just figure it out. And so we gave him shots. We did it all to him. And all he had to do was like sit there with him. That was

Scott Benner 16:24
really good. Okay, with this, the taking the injections, checking his blood sugar, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. How long? Did you do it that way? I mean, are you still doing it that way? It's only been

Candace 16:34
Yeah, we switched to a pump in the beginning of June. So really recently, we got the tandem, we got the Dexcom pretty early on, we got that in about like January, maybe a month or two in. And that was great. It was pretty scary, though. He was scared. We went to the doctor's was one of the few times you know, we went in person because everything's like video calls. And the boyfriend had them put put it on him first. And then we put it on little dude. And he was really scared and like, I don't want to wear this thing. And I don't like it. And that hurts. And we were like, just how about you wear it for one day? You know, and he worked for the one day and he was like, Okay, no more fingerprints. Yeah, I like this. And I was like, fantastic. And then we really did want the pump. And we were pushing for that. And like, you know, they, they were kind of I don't know, if they're reluctant. They're kind of the old school stuff, too. We want you to know how to do this all old school way of blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I get this and I think that the nurse at some point, you know, that we talked to all the time got that when I started adjusting, you know, Lantis and carb ratios on my own to you know, figure out blood sugar. She was like, okay, we can move to a pump. And, you know, at that point, you know, we've been doing it for for a while. And so they were okay, you know, we'll move you to the pump. I like

Scott Benner 17:51
how your son sort of a cheap date like he music was overtaken easily by if I just get eat a bunch of cheese sticks. This is better. And it took it took one day of not getting his fingers like stuck in he's like, alright, I'll do this this thing. Yeah, that just before he's like vehement. I think there's a good lesson in that for people actually. Because you do see sometimes like people talk about, like, my kid put up such a fight. They, you know, they made these declarative statements about, you know, I'd sooner died and do this thing. And

Candace 18:21
they get in the hospital, he had said, I want to die. You know, and then within six hours, he's walking around his like, get a beautiful room like in this, you know, Oakland, downtown Oakland, top of the top floor of the hospital there. He's like, I got this TV with my name on it. And it's got

Scott Benner 18:43
in between his fingers.

Candace 18:45
Yeah. Yeah, he was he was he was like, I've got it going on. So yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 18:50
I just think that's important to realize that I mean, those are fairly common reactions to things like that. And I think that you know, oftentimes and understandably This is the first medical situation people have ever been in so they they take the kids super literally the word and yeah, very seriously like you know, he he she said, This is how they feel and so this is it now and I'm always like, I don't know like yeah, what was the position you let him make you know, I mean, yeah,

Candace 19:21
exactly like this. This is health and we've been very pro like it's his body and like, you get to choose where stuff goes on you or how we do it and we're very slow like, shots. It was always like, Okay, you show me where are you ready? We'd always counted down but it wasn't an option. And so the same thing with you know, we kind of step by step was just like no, this is what's happening. I get it. I hear your protest, but we're gonna try it and then if you don't like it, alright, we'll talk about it.

Scott Benner 19:47
Yeah, baby. You have to give it a shot. I mean, honestly, I I refinance, financed our mortgage. A year ago during the guy never asked the kids what they thought about it once. I didn't say do you guys think about this refi I'm thinking of taking some years off but leaving the payment the same.

Candace 20:04
Right? I don't like Kelly had something to say about I don't

Scott Benner 20:06
know, even she just she's like, what's gonna happen? I told her she's like, okay. But no, I mean, money. I just think like, I'll tell you what cutting years off your mortgage saves you a ton of money. That's what's really great. But But my point is that, I mean, it's a health concern. And yeah, and I get that they're scared and that you don't want to, you don't want to force them into something, you don't want to make them do something that they don't want to do, because that has its own set of pitfalls, you but you have to try it because they can't imagine the other side of this like you can. And so you have to show it to them is all

Candace 20:44
No, and they're scared. You know, when they're scared, like, and he's a very avoidant kid. If he's scared, he's like, I'm not doing that. Scary. That sounds scary. Hell, no. Oh, thank you, yeah, horse want to sign me up to attach something to my body know that I know already. The fingerprints that's tolerable, and then you get the Dexcom on, you're like, Oh, this is way better.

Scott Benner 21:05
And then all of a sudden, you understand you're in a different and new situation. And they're different implications down and yeah, to make you have to make decisions based on those. So. Okay, so I'm assuming for a large part of this conversation, we're really going to be talking about the difficulties you were having. With their dad. Right. Like,

Candace 21:26
yeah, I mean, it's, it's been a struggle. And, you know, I joined like, a bunch of Facebook groups, I think, just, you know, Facebook groups in the hospital, you know, like, and I think I found the podcast, like, like, a weekend, you know, it's just, I think my way of dealing with anxiety is, I'm going to learn everything, you know, and I'm going to read everything, and I'm going to find out as much as I can. And, you know, the more that I was learning, I was like, oh, like, this is really complicated, you know, they sent us home with, like you said, like, some needles and instructions, or ratio, you know, and the ex got that, you know, and every other weekend, they go to his house, and I'd send them and we had, like, you know, the log book where you wrote down everything he ate, and how much insulin you gave, and, you know, the instructions, and I would send all of that with them. And like, we get the book back, and like, the numbers were wrong, like the amount of insulin he was giving was wrong, you know, the food, I could see what he was eating, and it was like waffles with chocolate syrup for breakfast. And I'm just like, you know, and, and those are the things that I like, Oh, I'm like, I can't dictate what he's gonna eat at that house. I can't dictate, you know, moving his body, but the numbers are wrong, the amount of insulin he's getting is wrong. And so we have tried both the boyfriend and I and every which way to be like, hey, you know, this is hard, you know, you know, we have each other to talk to and bounce ideas off. And it's just you. I mean, he lives with a girlfriend, but his girlfriend is like, very hands off about the kids like, those are his kids there. She's not involved really with them. And so I get, it's just him and I have compassion for him. It's a lot. But I was like, call me call the boyfriend call. In the middle of the night. You can call before every meal. Like I'm terrible at math. I thought immediately when this went down in the hospital, like, I'm going to kill my kid, I am the worst at math ever. Like, I have never passed a math class I got through graduate school without ever passing algebra, like, it is insane. And I'm just thinking, I'm going to kill my kid with this insulin thing, and ratios and carbs and you know, insulin sensitivity factors. So I understood I was so compassionate for him about how hard this was, but I was like, call him call us we, you know, we'll work it through because I could always bounce everything off my boyfriend, like, Are my numbers, right? Did I do this? Right? Yeah. Can you check the you know, the syringe and he didn't. And, you know, he would, oh, I got this. I'm fine. I don't know. You know, and then we get the book back. And we're like, dude, the numbers are off. Like you gave way too much insulin, or I don't these numbers don't make sense. And we've walked it through with Oh, yeah, yeah, well, no, I just, you know, I was just tired. All right, this, this or that, you know, and then he might call for a meal or two and say, okay, he's getting, you know, 45 carbs. What do I do? And what's his blood sugar now, okay. And we give it to him. And that's it. And then he would be like, I'm good. And then, you know, it started happening with especially with the Dexcom. I would see little guys numbers, like just up rising, you know, and he's like, sitting around, you know, 300 or whatever. And I call my accent, like, you got to test for ketones. And he's like, yeah, oh, I can't find the bottle. And I'm like, Okay, well, go to CVS. Like, you got to test him for ketones. He's over 300 He's been there for a while, right? Oh, yeah. Well, no, it's a prescription. Right? No, it's not a prescription. You can get it on Amazon. You can go to CVS you can go to like, you know, the damn any pharmacy, and he just, he didn't do it. He just wouldn't do it. And I like I don't understand Like, I know you love this kid, and I just don't think he understood how dangerous it was. So and

Scott Benner 25:07
so what do you have to try to make him understand the gravity of it? Like, what's the I mean, the steps obviously didn't work. I mean, yeah. Let me jump ahead for a second ask a question. So jump right back. Does he get it now? I don't know. Okay. All right. So then what have you tried so far to explain the gravity of it.

Candace 25:29
I have called every single member of our endo team and begged them to call. I have talked to an endocrinologist. I've talked to our you know, nurse practitioner, I've talked to the dietician. I've talked to our social worker, because we have like the whole team. And I've explained this because, you know, this is I'm struggling here. And finally, when we got to the pump, and it was the first week on the pump, and little dude went to his house. He came back, he went to camp, I had texted the ex over the weekend, I said, how did that change? Go? Because I knew this would be the first time he was doing it. And he didn't respond to me. And that's also a lot of issues. I will text him and he just doesn't respond. Um, and so I texted him on Sunday when it was supposed to go down. How did it go? No response on Monday. I could see little dude was at camp and he was really high. And I was like, hey, like, how did this that change? Go? I can see that. He's high at camp. And he's like, is that the cartridge thingy? And I'm like, Yes, it's the whole thing. The thing that's attached to his body because we have a to slim and the cartridge thing. Like, if that doesn't have insulin in it, he has no insulin, his body. He's like, you know, oh, yeah, I was gonna do that this afternoon. And I'm just like,

Scott Benner 26:43
Alright, I have questions. Here we go. Though some of them will see him in delicate. I know, You've been apart for 10 years. But how old are you right now? I am 45 How old is he?

Candace 26:56
He's 46.

Scott Benner 26:58
Okay. 10 years ago. How long were you married for when you when you got divorced?

Candace 27:04
We have been married for about four and a half years.

Scott Benner 27:08
So you guys got married? Like, right in your early? 30s? Yeah, like

Candace 27:12
I was. Just to turn 30

Scott Benner 27:14
Was that your first marriage? Yeah. How about him? Yes. Alright, so now the questions are gonna become more pointed out sorry, was the Nick then.

Candace 27:25
Cool. Um, he was checked out then. And he was always off in his own world. He's like a computer guy. He is or at least thinks he is brilliant and always on the edge of either disaster or brilliance. And he's like about to you know, have a major breakthrough and whatever it is, he does computer wise. I don't understand any of it. Or he's about on like, the verge of despair. So he's very involved in his career, and I was always kind of the one doing the kid thing.

Scott Benner 27:55
Mm hmm. I heard you say really? You made a reference to being like super focused or or asking a lot of questions. You said Jewish like, yeah. Did you did you marry a girl? Is that what you did? I said my parents not tell you that. Yeah, I'm not Jewish and I know that you did that wrong. Like what is Ray? All right here like

Candace 28:21
an honorary Jew though. I mean, you seem like you could totally be

Scott Benner 28:25
easily totally cut. That's not the point.

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Okay so that the entire time you're talking I'm like, what did she do she she found a Gentile I got married and that's the whole thing up like I can tell immediately that The point

Candace 30:01
No, I made some bad choices. I was living in Boston and I was in grad school and I met him and I'm you know, I'm from California, and I'm like, oh, big handsome guy. I am 29 Hold on, let's get married.

Scott Benner 30:14
I know more about you than you think. So. I want to say two things here. First of all, you're cool. If you're not Jewish, just I'm telling you Jewish girls sometimes have expectations that go and boys don't know how to like, like meet and that that's not for nothing. But I thought you met a big tall handsome boy, didn't you?

Candace 30:32
I did.

Scott Benner 30:34
You all that you want to tell the girls now the young ones. Married Jewish boy. Or the nice. Nice guy. Nice guy. He's, I guarantee you right now, if I was that tall, and handsome, I would put almost no effort into anything. You don't have to. I would just walk around like be like, Hey, do you see how God damn handsome? I am. Come over here and do stuff for me. Like make me food or clean the thing or I don't know. I would be 1951 in my head. If I was

Candace 31:08
that guy. What happens like after you're like, you know, once you hit past 6162 You just don't have to try.

Scott Benner 31:13
I don't even know. I I'm so jealous. A tall man. I couldn't even begin to tell you. I have to. I'm like a child. I look up at them. And they look down at me. And I know they they absolutely think I'm a woman. Like I'm not even kidding. Like, I know. They look down. They're like, Oh, everyone's shorter than me. It's just not a man like I am. I know that is in the back of their head somewhere. Not everybody know. Decent people. But that's not likely.

Candace 31:39
My boyfriend's gonna kill him. But he's pretty sure like, like ways. Oh, no.

Scott Benner 31:43
You figured out that the boyfriends Jewish? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, please, him. You won't marry this guy. This guy stuck with you for 10 years. You're not gonna marry him? Because the last guy didn't work out.

Candace 31:56
Yeah, no way. Never get married. Not happy way to go Kansas. I learned my lesson on that.

Scott Benner 32:02
figured everything out backwards. But that's okay. Yeah. All right. So we can't

Candace 32:06
I wish I could go back to my 29 year old self. So you don't need to get married, like I didn't even really want to is more of a like, I felt like oh, this is the thing I'm supposed to be doing. You know,

Scott Benner 32:14
I'm older. Yeah, in this case, so pretty.

Candace 32:18
He's so cute. I want to have babies and like, this is kind of what we're supposed to be doing. I'm 29 You know, like, and then like,

Scott Benner 32:26
I think you're supposed to wait till after you're bored about the sex before you make decisions like that. Next time, I would well, next time. Why next time you got a guy now he's gonna stay with you till the end of time. Yeah, no, we're not getting married. It's never gonna happen. This new guy would he'd stay three days after you kicked them out with me?

Candace 32:43
Yes, yes.

Scott Benner 32:46
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I hope all you girls hear what's happening here. Let me take a drink. I grew up my entire life with women around me telling me you're such a nice person. You're such a good person. Girls are gonna love that. Blah, blah, blah. Let me tell you something. Not one girl appreciated that.

Candace 33:06
Yeah, no, I went for the guy that, you know, he ignored me. I was I got to Boston. I was dating two guys. When I first got there. I was like, Yeah, I'm on my own. I'm in grad school. And I was dating this doctor. And then the this guy and I call him the computer guy. And the doctor liked me. And he wanted to he wasn't Jewish, but he wanted he was all over it wanted to date and computer guy. My ex was ignoring me. Of course, I wanted to be with the guy who ignored me.

Scott Benner 33:31
For non Jews out there. The doctor part makes him acceptable. Even though it wasn't Yeah, your mom would have been like, that's fine. Oh, yeah. We'll convert him later. Don't worry about that, Doctor. Don't you worry, sweetie. Exactly. Right. Listen. So okay, now we're past the sins of the flesh. Let's just saying. But we're still left with a guy who loves your boys, but is mainly good for video games and ignoring things and not texting you back. Yes. And so then I have to ask. If he texted you would you text him back? Even if it wasn't about the kids? Yeah, you would. Okay, so middle middle the day, hey, blah, blah, blah. I have a question. I don't understand how the the garbage disposal works. I'm assuming he doesn't understand that. And so and you, you would say, oh, it's the button next to the thing you wouldn't want

Candace 34:25
because it would be so out of character for him to text me randomly. I would be like this must be important.

Scott Benner 34:30
Okay. But if you sent him a similar text, you're not going to get any response whatsoever. Is there a chance that this is because his girlfriend doesn't want to see him texting with you and your boyfriend doesn't mind if he texts you?

Candace 34:44
That is a possibility. His girlfriend's been around for about six or seven years. I always invite her to the birthday parties and stuff and she has shown up a few times but I don't even know this woman's last name.

Scott Benner 34:56
Is she blonde?

Candace 34:58
Ah, she's kind of like lightish brown hair maybe blonde? I don't know. I haven't seen her in years. Like, I couldn't even probably pick her out of a lineup anymore. Like I haven't seen her. It's been years since I've seen her. So I think she's very, very threatened by me.

Scott Benner 35:11
I have no judgments about blondes, but if you get Arden back on here ever, I will ask her opinions. If you have a certain angular jaw and a lightness of your hair art and says she doesn't trust you.

Candace 35:23
I think ours is a smart girl. I

Scott Benner 35:24
don't even know what that means. Like, but she'll be like, not sure about background like how do you what are you basing this on? She just use the jawline. Like, what? What do you take from that? Exactly? She's like, I don't know. I just I can tell. I'm like, Okay, I think she's kidding. Anyway, I just wanted to work in one of Arden's jokes so that 10 years from now, she hears that she'll be like, Oh my god, I used to say, Thanks, Dad. Yeah.

Candace 35:48
Okay, so painting with broad strokes here.

Scott Benner 35:50
Yeah, right. That's a good point to say once in a while. I don't assume if people listen, they understand. Like, like you listen, you understand like that. I'm kidding about that. I think.

Candace 36:03
I think so. I think most people who listen one have to get your sense of humor, or they wouldn't keep listening.

Scott Benner 36:09
You would think and and unless this is your first episode, and you're very blonde and have an angular jaw. And then right now I've may have, I might have just gotten myself out of a subscription or lesson, but that's okay.

Candace 36:20
Are you freaked out? All the Jewish all the short Jewish guys out

Scott Benner 36:23
there? Just a blonde girls, hang on? You're gonna love us? Just stick with me? Okay. You have no idea how many people are just like Jewish? What's that? People in the middle of the country right now? Like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Candace 36:38
We're the ones running the world. Right?

Scott Benner 36:41
That's what I heard. Lasers. Yeah. Deshaun. Jackson told me last year anyway, so not getting them? How crazy some people are. Okay, so you're in a weird situation, quite obviously. And yeah, you're not getting out of it. It's been a number of months now. It's not getting any better. So you don't think that it's that he doesn't care? But no, you don't have enough access to him to figure it out. And you're trying now to get other people to intercede doctors or anybody to step in and say hey, here are the things you need to understand. But it's not happening. So my last question about him. And then I'm going to move on to ideas about how to work this out. Yeah. Is he a little open today? Or no?

Candace 37:26
No, I think he's actually a really bright guy, which is even more frustrating. I think that he's just so focused on his work and his own life that this it's just not, I don't know, if he doesn't get the urgency to it. You know, like, we had a situation a couple nights ago, where I could see little dude was like, drifting fast down, and I assume I'm watching the arrow and it's like, my night off. It's Friday. The kids are gone. I've had them for like a week and a half. And I'm like, Yes, I'm gonna chill out. And I'm, but I'm looking at the Dexcom. And I'm like, he is dropping seven points every five minutes. And at like, 100 Or maybe it was like, he was at 110. And I was like, He's gonna need uncovered like snacks and texted no response. He starts dropping down to 90. I was like, hey, carbs, nothing. 20 minutes later, he's at 80. You know, carbs? carbs, carbs. No response. It's 11. Bile. It's about 11 o'clock. I ended up just calling my kid because he has a iPhone now for the Dexcom. Yeah, I call him on FaceTime. I'm like, Dude, you need Have you looked at your your number. He's like, what? Because he's playing video games. It's 11 o'clock at night, but she wouldn't be awake at my house. 11 o'clock at night. I said, look at your Dexcom he's like, Oh, I'm 68. I was like, yes, we need some carbs. Okay. So he goes in, he got himself some carbs. So I was like, alright, so I figured out i'll just bypass. You know, I always gone through the exe to try to do this stuff. And I was like, okay, you know what, I'm just gonna go straight to my kid.

Scott Benner 39:00
Yeah, he won't, and that your ex won't care. No, he'll be happy to be out of it. Yeah, I wonder if I see through similarities here. I wonder if not being around while the while the while your son's growing up. makes it so that you don't have those moments along the way. I don't even know how to like describe those moments. But moments when yourself becomes less important when you start to see a bigger picture about the kids and what they need and how much time that takes and you where you have to make that thing in your head where you go, Okay, there's this thing I enjoy. I used to play this game or I used to do this, but I can't do that anymore. I don't have enough time. Like I used to play video games when I was in my 20s too. And I didn't play the video game in forever. Like decades, probably. The closest I come to a video game is like walking in my son's room and going oh my god, this is so realistic. I'll stand and watch it for a couple minutes and I'll be like, that's amazing. And then I'll ask him a couple questions. And then I leave because I'm an adult.

Candace 40:01
Yeah, he hasn't gotten he hasn't had that. I don't know, like, there was something you know, and I'm sure a lot of, you know, yeah, you just have this transformative thing, right? Where like the center of the universe changes from you to them, and that he didn't happen. And so he loves them. And they're great. But he doesn't see that he sees, like, all the extensions of him and how much they're like him and, but he doesn't really see them. And they it's the 15 year old doesn't notice it as much. But the 11 year old does will come home and he'll be like, I don't feel important. Or he was doing work all weekend, or I want to go back I missed him. And I was like, oh, but you just spent all weekend there. But like he's like, you know, we talked about having a loved battery. I'm a therapist. So I'm like, how's your loved battery? He's like, it's empty. And it's like, they're not getting the interaction. They go over there. They sit in a room and they play video games, and yeah, they get fed. And but like, my ex has never taken them on a trip. Like, not like to cabin or weekends anywhere.

Scott Benner 41:06
So it's like you're cuddling them for the weekend. every other weekend? Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be harsh. But. And, and he doesn't. It's interesting, because he doesn't have the time in the simulator, right? Like if if, if the 10,000 hours thing is anywhere close to being right. You've got 30,000 hours, and he's got 300 hours? Yeah. Ah, okay. And that's going to work out the same way for the diabetes. Because I'm always saying, you know, I know we don't want things to go wrong. But you almost need them to go wrong, so that you can see what wrong looks like. So you can figure out what, how to get to right. And I know it's a weird thing. But you have to have a lot of experiences over and over again, meals after meals after meals. So things start making sense, and aren't having those experiences either. So you're you're coming at him with, Hey, listen, I see that the pitch of this line tells me at 110 that he needs a snack and he probably wants and goes to kids blood sugar's 110. She's out of her mind.

Candace 42:06
Exactly. I'm like, I'm just like, you know, the over protective helicopter Jewish mama who's like intruding on his weekend?

Scott Benner 42:12
Yeah. And I tell you a secret about boys. Once you stop showing them your soft parts. They don't listen anymore. Yeah. That's really the only

Candace 42:21
control you have over man is that there's no concern that's not happening.

Scott Benner 42:25
If they think something may one time at some point, ever again, happen. Like I'm thinking that Friday night, your poor boyfriend's sitting there going, I'm not having sex.

Candace 42:36
You know, he's pretty worried too. And he's frustrated. I mean, we've both been up at like 1am. And where we see little dude go in low. And we're like, Is somebody going to give him carbs? Is someone coming in, and we just see him bouncing around 7068 70. And it's like, 2am. And we're like, do we call him and like, sometimes we have sometimes you've texted and like, I don't think there's times where he's treated him. And he didn't go really well. He was uh, he ended up fine. And it's just like, and I've asked the ex, I'm like, Did you wake up? And he's like, Oh, sometimes I can hear my alarm. And I'm like, okay, then what do you do to fix that? Hey, there's an app called Sugar mate that calls you Hey, do you need to get like a speaker, but he can't get the urgency. He just doesn't get it.

Scott Benner 43:23
I have two things. First thing is you just sort of proved my earlier hypothesis by saying that, in that scenario, on a Friday night, when your kids are gone, your boyfriend who has been with those kids for 10 years, is worried about them, like a father would be? Absolutely he's not. He's not just sitting there thinking like, this is the weekend off, where we have a bunch of sex and go out to dinner and stuff like that. Now he's actually kids. And he's been with you for 10 years, who doesn't expect a bunch of sex anymore anyway. And that's the other thing. And so then the next thing is this. Are you learning anything from watching the non interventions? Like Have there been times where you're like, Oh, I was wrong, we didn't need to intervene.

Candace 44:06
I mean, I guess since I've seen some lows, that I'm guessing we're not treated because there was no bounce back where he just kind of drifted in the 60s and then kind of settled back in the 80s, where I would have treated it in the middle of the night. And I was like, oh, okay, like, that one's alright. But I would I just wouldn't have risked it. You know, I would have given them some carbs.

Scott Benner 44:26
I'm not asking you to, I'm just saying if the experience is going to happen anyway. Yes. As well learn from it. Yeah, learn try to learn from because there are times where you just have to have the balls to not do anything. Yeah, a 60 blood sugar's not that time. I'm not saying that but but you're there is something to learn from all of the experiences and from all the data, so don't waste it. I mean, I mean, you're gonna be angry and upset and all that stuff. Yeah.

Candace 44:52
And the higher in the higher blood sugar is the one and then and I and I used a lot of the language you had talked about, I was like, you know, I had texted him at different points. I was like he's running at like, 230. And I was like, you know, when he's over 200 We are taking minutes off his life. We are losing fingers and toes. We are losing eyesight. Like, let's not do this. And it's like, it doesn't land. It just doesn't.

Scott Benner 45:18
Even he can't be scared by it. No. Yeah, it's the height is tall.

Candace 45:23
It's the height and suits all

Scott Benner 45:25
and you get over like six, three. You're just like, I'm a superhero. Yeah,

Candace 45:29
he's six, four. So

Scott Benner 45:30
there you go. Yeah, he just like I'm a superhero. Like, it doesn't matter. I hear this. I don't like, Okay. I'm not anti tall people. I'm just saying. People got to find out how it feels to be five, nine. You got to live like that a little bit.

Candace 45:44
You're the same height as my boyfriend. That's funny.

Scott Benner 45:47
I'm the worst height. I'm not tall. I'm not sure. That's really terrible. I'm tall. You know, the odd thing is, you know, I'm taller than most of the people I meet. Yeah, I would imagine. And then I meet one person who's six, two, and I'm like, Oh, I'm a baby. That's nice. I don't like meeting people that I know. If we got into an altercation, they could grab me by my face and throw me that doesn't feel that's something you worry about. Sometimes. You see those big tall people, they look so strong.

Candace 46:19
I don't know. I'm five, five. So and I've everyone my family is really tall. So I've always been super short. So I'm kind of used to being the short person to make my 15 year old is already six one. So I'm kind of already getting, you know, everyone's getting taller than me in my house. That's

Scott Benner 46:32
fair. That's all. That's all I'm saying. I hear you. Oh, maybe tall people have problems we don't know about. I think that's probably true too. Tall people problems. If you're all your problems. I wish this wasn't just the diabetes podcast. Because right now I'd say if you're tall, you have problems, please contact me to be on the show. I would love

Candace 46:50
to call in Tell me all about how you can't find pants that fit?

Scott Benner 46:53
Yeah, listen, if you have type one, and you're really tall, we'll find something about diabetes to talk about in between me going. So tell me what it's like? Well, I

Candace 47:01
had a type one boyfriend in my 20s. And he was six, six. So it didn't turn out well. So.

Scott Benner 47:06
So you're bringing up a question that I had a minute ago, I lost and I brought it back. And if you don't want to answer, I guess I understand. And it's okay. But why did you guys get divorced? Did you hate each other? Were you arguing all the time?

Candace 47:21
Um, no, we were arguing a lot. So you know, I had just had little guy 10 months before we were going to couples therapy. And I guess I was seeing the therapist on my own too. And I was talking her and I was like, you know, I'm somebody who like, holds everything in. Like, I don't tell her about my feelings. Like, and this is the most I've talked about myself forever. I'm a therapist, I talk to other people all day long about their stuff. And I told the therapist, like I just want to tell my ex like all the resentment and all the things that I've been holding on to for the past few years. And, and she's like, I think if you say that it's going to be the end of your marriage. And I was like, no, like, we've come in here week after week. And my ex is like my heart murmur. And I was like, I have to have my turn. So we go into therapy. I say my piece we walk out Max is like I think we should be done. Oh, oh, oh, man. You know, and it wasn't.

Scott Benner 48:19
Did you want Did you want that?

Candace 48:22
I wasn't soul crushing. I mean, I was like, Alright, I don't know how to be a single mom and I was crushed. But I wasn't devastated. Like it wasn't good for us for a long time. He was checked out the whole time and I don't think that was gonna change and so yeah

Scott Benner 48:47
was he cheating? Me cheating?

Candace 48:49
No. I don't know. He there was a there was a I don't know if it's real cheating. There was a girl online that I think he was talking to you who lived like halfway across the country. So not yet achieved in real life yet?

Scott Benner 49:00
Not yet. Yet needed a plane ticket? And

Unknown Speaker 49:04
exactly. Plane ticket. Yeah. All right.

Scott Benner 49:07
That's sad. I didn't mean to laugh. It's

Candace 49:11
sad, but it wasn't like some big catastrophic explosion, which was why it allowed us to be able to be like, Okay, we have this baby in this, you know, preschool kid, how do we, you know, make this as best we can for them. Alright, let's like, you know, we didn't have lawyers, we got to, you know, we also were broke. So, not a lot of fight about so we got a mediator and like, alright, let's work this out, you know,

Scott Benner 49:32
Frosted Flakes, and I'll take the Mini Wheats, and we'll get it exactly.

Candace 49:35
There's not a whole lot to fight about. So you know, it was really just kind of ironing out visitation. And since a little one was so young, it was like, Okay, come over two times a week, hang out. I'll take off for a couple hours, come back. And then every other weekend, he'd come and like, stay here and I would go to my mom's house and then early on, I met my boyfriend and I go stay at his house and you know, then he finally got his own place where he could bring the voice to after a few years.

Scott Benner 50:00
Whether Was there ever any like regret, like, did you ever cross in the doorway when he came over to take his turn? And you think to yourself, like, should I note? No, never? No. Did he ever say we're doing the wrong thing? No, no. Interesting.

Candace 50:17
No, I think it was pretty. Like we're good. We're let's let's not do this anymore. Yeah. You can ask for

Scott Benner 50:25
what? I don't want to say this in case your kid hears it. But we got my youngest. My kids never gonna hear the youngest one like, hey, maybe we can fix this with the baby. Where was the mistake? Sorry.

Candace 50:38
Oh, no, the youngest. So it was kind of like we just had. So we had a few rough years with the my older one. And then we have like, six months, or like stuff was good, like, or at least good enough. And I was like, I really I grew up as an only child. And I really wanted my kids, my kid to have a sibling. And I was like, Look, we should have a baby. And that would be cool. And he was like, yeah. And then it was like, a couple months later, like, oh, maybe this isn't a good idea. And he or she got back on birth control. And by that point, I was like, oh, and I'm praying, okay. And then surprisingly, my ex at that point was really excited. He was really excited to have this baby. It was a complicated pregnancy, he had a lot of kind of mental health issues during that point. So I was very alone. During the pregnancy. I had gestational diabetes, which was actually one of those things that I felt like in the hospital, I was like, to the nurses, I had gestational diabetes, and I give this to him, you know. But like, he never went to a single appointment when I was pregnant with little guy, and I should have, like, so like, things really haven't changed. Okay, now.

Scott Benner 51:44
So. All right. We haven't been making light of a man with mental illness for the last 50 minutes. Have we? No,

Candace 51:52
no, he's a functioning like person in the world. Like he is not like severely anything. He had a struggle during that time period about work and a bunch of other stuff kind of colliding. But he is an okay person in the

Scott Benner 52:05
world. I don't need his details. I just wanted to make sure that like, yeah, that kind of like high level and I was like, Oh, come on, like, say that at the beginning.

Candace 52:14
He was and I wouldn't be so frustrated, right? Is this functioning guy? He is smart. He is capable, and I can't get why he can't get this.

Scott Benner 52:24
Can I ask you what it felt like when you were pregnant? He was excited. And you were halfway between? Oh, I was looking for my birth control pills again. Is that a weird feeling?

Candace 52:34
Yeah, I mean, it was definitely it was kind of like this. Oh, crap. Okay, like Pavitt. Alright, we're gonna do this. And like, you know, and then once you know, baby's there, it was like, All right, like, I'm gonna be excited about this kid right now.

Scott Benner 52:49
No, I'm not. And this is no reflection on your son. Obviously. I'm just trying to talk to you like an adult. So totally. Yeah. So you, he doesn't I don't

Candace 52:58
think there was a whole lot of like, we're, you know, oh, like regret, or I think it was once I realized I was pregnant. It was like, Okay, this is what's happening. And, you know, I'm all on board.

Scott Benner 53:06
Gotcha. I'm going through my questions in my mind, that one was completely inappropriate. So that won't happen. And you all have no idea how many questions I don't ask, during the course. conversations where I'm like, I wonder about No, that won't work.

Candace 53:26
I certainly love ask people. Yeah, but their loved ones all day long are lovely, nice

Scott Benner 53:30
people that listen to this podcast, too. And they don't want to Oh, I'm sure they don't want to hear my darker thoughts. Like, I'm trying to

Candace 53:37
just slap an after dark, you know, title on this. And that's why you want

Scott Benner 53:42
to wait for that now. Okay, we would have cursed I feel like you and I would have cursed a lot if this was an after dark episode.

Candace 53:48
Definitely, I am trying so hard. Doing well,

Scott Benner 53:51
you've cursed once. Thank you at the 4546 mark. But I made a note so I can go back and take it out. I'm sorry. Also, I burped around 14 minutes. So I'll check for that. was very quiet, but I I'm aware of it. So now I'm going to go back and check for it. If I don't take it out, no one will ever know. But if I leave it in, maybe I should just leave it and see people can hear it. It'll be it'll sell a rumble. But it's nothing. Anyway, that's not the point of this conversation. The point is, you're screwed because this isn't getting any better.

Candace 54:23
No, it's really not. It's like this limbo. I mean, the pump has helped in certain ways, because he's not having to do the math anymore. Like the math thing. I actually was really blown away by that because I'm like, the most math challenged person. And I thought like, of course, he's gonna get the math part like and the fact that he couldn't, I was just like, what is happening? So the pump has definitely made it easier. Like, you know, there's less to input. We have, you know, the control IQ. So there's a little bit more management happening, but there's like, he's still not getting the nuance like, uh, you know, I tried to talk to him about Pre-Bolus sake, you know, and it's like, crickets? No like, if Yeah, if you're having a pizza dinner, why don't you Pre-Bolus 1520 minutes at a time, you know, like,

Scott Benner 55:10
when you call him a computer person, is he professionally computer person? Are you saying he really like has a great gaming system that he put together? Like, what is it versus Yeah,

Candace 55:18
he's like a professionally that's like what he does really?

Scott Benner 55:22
Yeah, but not math related or doesn't like, no,

Candace 55:25
no, it's all like some weird like, I don't know, it's like, I mean, he must be smart. He's like, in some stuff. I don't even understand what it is. Like he hangs out with people from Silicon Valley. So he's telling me about all the important people he's talking to.

Scott Benner 55:40
The one of them know how to tell him to Pre-Bolus I

Candace 55:43
wish they would. I wish they would. Well, I think our nurse has called him somewhat recently, when we when we switch to the tandem, I was like, we had set up the tandem training separately. I was like, we need to be trained separately. I was like, because my boyfriend and I will sit there will ask question after question after question. And he'll just sit there quietly and not ask anything. Right. So I was like, can you train us separately? Okay. You know, and then I talked to the the educator, I was like, how did it go? Did you think he got Oh, yeah. He told me he read the manual. He totally understood that. I was just like, Oh, crap. Like, there's Yeah, no. And he didn't know. I mean, that was the first set change was like, is that the cartridge thing? Okay,

Scott Benner 56:24
if I read the manual, the manual was helpful. I wouldn't have a podcast. So because there's manuals for everything. Yeah, uh, so the is the plan just to get the algorithm up and running so well, that you can circumvent him and just text your son? Like, yes. Do you think your son will get to a point because he's still pretty young, where he'll take on some responsibility for this piece when he's with his dad?

Candace 56:48
I think so. I think the last few weekends was the first time where I've directly texted him, and he like, actually answered his phone, which was great. And he went, you know, I just, I packed his backpack, and I have, you know, there's a couple bags of the, you know, 15 grams Skittles or whatever. And so like, I know that he has those. And so like, at this last weekend, I was like, Hey, go grab some Skittles. Okay, so I think like, my plan is just to like, yeah, circumvent the x, just go straight to the kid. You know, it's a little frustrating, actually. I mean, I guess I can actually text him now about, you know, doing a correction, because because we, you know, we do it here all the time, where if he's running high, and like, you know, control IQ isn't whatever, I'll say, you know, can you give yourself a correction of a couple units, and he can do that on his own. So I just, I think I probably call them access house and say the same thing now when he's running high, because when he's running high there, I can text Max and be like, you should really check and do a correction and may or may not happen, but I could probably just go straight to my kid now.

Scott Benner 57:45
Yeah, but then you really don't get any downtime at all. No, I

Candace 57:49
don't. Yeah,

Scott Benner 57:49
I mean, I get downtime. Like, I can say to Kelly, like, I'm gonna go do something now and then need to pay attention, Arden. And, yeah, generally that happens. So. And then I have my time, even if it's just a little bit like an hour, like, you know, even like, going grocery shopping or something like that. Like there's one store that I can't get service in, and I'm, I'm, like, so grateful for that because I leave and I'm like, Hey, I'm not gonna have cell service. Don't

Candace 58:15
forget, you're like, hands up in the air. Like, I'm

Scott Benner 58:17
free. And they're just like, okay, like, yeah, excellent. They'll pay attention to it now. I don't know. Like, can I ask you as crazy as it sounds an hour into it? Like, why did you want to come on?

Candace 58:32
Um, I think I just I had scrolled through a lot of podcasts. And I looked for all the divorced ones. So I was like, There's got to be some other people who are got to deal with this. And like everybody that you had had previously on, we're like, got along, and we're communicating. And the kid was doing well in both houses. And I'm in a bunch of like, you know, moms, a T one groups. And there's other moms out there who are posting like, you know, my kids at the axes, and they could see the blood sugar, and they're not responding and what do I do? And I'm like, Okay, there's other people like me. I mean, I think I wrote in my email, I was like, I don't have the answers. But I know there's got to be a bunch of other people like me are like sending their kid off every other weekend and like, have no control over what's happening. And it's like, such a helpless feeling. And I think this was probably a way of me feeling like, I can do something. This is something I can do. I have no control there.

Scott Benner 59:22
I can tell you after being around this space, the way I have been for as long as I have been, it is one of the most frequent and significant concerns for people is that one of the spouses in a divorce relationship doesn't do anything, and then it's almost torturous, like the other one has to watch it happen. Or if you don't have a CGM wonder about it happening. And then they don't have this communication. They can't even quell their fears. They live in this heightened sense of like, kind of like horror the entire time that kids gone. Either seeing what's going going on and knowing it's bad for their health or Yeah, imagining that's what's happening and not even being able to see.

Candace 1:00:07
Yeah, it's terrible. It's a terrible feeling. And it's like, I run anxious anyway, and like, it does not help at all. Like, I'm just, it's tough because I used to have my weekends off. And I was like, I can go be free. The kids are gonna be there till Sunday, and like, I can go do my thing. And now it's like, I'm looking at my phone, you know, and I'm texting and I'm worrying and it's sucks. And it's, you know, diabetes is exhausting, and a full time job as it is and then having another weekend where it's like, I'm still on call

Scott Benner 1:00:37
that I run nervous. And I'm imagining, have you heard Roxy in an earlier episode? Like, Yeah, girl with her sister the entire time that you're talking like, Roxy is gonna love this episode. And then you just said I run nervous. And I thought that's something Roxy would say about herself.

Candace 1:00:53
Run. Yeah, run anxious and nervous. Nervous.

Scott Benner 1:00:57
Anyway, I so you're in. Every I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of everybody who's ever written a note like that. And I don't know how you make another person care. Like to me, if you came to me and said, Look, when our kids blood sugar is like it is when he's here. Or when she's here. This is how she feels. This is how he feels. And when you put him in this situation where it's bouncing around, it's getting high, it's getting low, literally changes who they are, like, if you said that, hey, I'd be like, Oh, okay, I'll fix it. You know, I didn't know that. But when you're in a situation where you'll say that to someone, and they'll just go, Ah, I'll get to it. I don't know, I don't know what to do about that. And I don't know that it's it just it seems kind of cruel to me to like, bounce the kid from, from well managed to don't manage, and back and forth and back and forth. Because at some point, your your axe has got in anybody's axe has to realize that that one day that kid's gonna go, I don't want to go there. I don't feel well when I'm there. Like, it's gonna ruin that thing. But maybe some people just don't have that kind of parental connection. Maybe that's just

Candace 1:02:12
No, I don't, it's for me, like, it's, I think for my little guy like, he, I don't, he doesn't feel high. When he feels when he's high, he doesn't feel different. I don't necessarily see any behavioral changes. And he obviously knows when he's low. And when they're at my axes, they literally don't leave the house, they are sitting in a bedroom playing video games. So I think he doesn't feel it. If he's super high, where if we were here, and we were out, we're out doing stuff. And so he might notice it a little more and retreating it you know, like, if he's high on like, We're going swimming, right? Like we're gonna get you dropped down. And his house like, I think he's just so like, I mean, I don't think they kids both have kids are like, could be completely addicted to video games, like they would never leave their house and they can push play, and they wouldn't even eat if he didn't like make them. So I think they're perfectly content to be there and play video games. And I don't think that my ex is engaging enough with them to notice any changes behaviorally, I think, you know, he checks in online, we feed them and you know that maybe they hang out and have dinner. But you know, that's probably the extensive it

Scott Benner 1:03:15
hard for me to think about that. Because I'm just gonna say something, it's gonna be embarrassing, but my son's leaving for college in four days. And going back for his senior year. Now, he's been here for a while because of COVID. And last night, he was in the kitchen. Last night was one of those weird nights where I was like a shorter cook. Nobody wanted the same thing. And so I spent like three hours it felt like from like five to eight o'clock cooking for different people. But everyone was downstairs waiting for their food and doing something else at the same time. And I'm just going to tell you that I liked that we were all in the same place. Yeah, and it's lovely. And then it got done. And I I was like, I was just hot from cooking. And I said to Kelly, like, I'm gonna take a shower before I go to bed. And I will as I was walking up the stairs, I had this fleeting thought, like, I don't want anyone to think that it burdened me for hours or you know that I was crumbling at my core. But I was walking up the stairs and I thought, well, maybe I should just stay downstairs a little longer until cold goes to his room and then I'll take a shower, because I don't want to waste this time where we're together when he's going to be gone in four days. Yeah, I totally get it and I don't understand how somebody who's only seeing their children every other weekend to begin with wouldn't make that weekend as special as possible and together as possible. I create like fathom what you're saying which is what makes it even more difficult and I'm imagining in a classic relationship where this is happening where the man is acting more the way your ex is. And the mom who is not just been raising the kids but now has been in trouble. Mind in this diabetes stuff like I would imagine you couldn't put it into words, if your life depended on it. Like, why is this happening? Yeah, there's no way for you to know.

Candace 1:05:09
I know, it's, it's really hard to make sense of it because I know he loves them. But he just engages with them in a way that is doesn't make sense. Like, I don't get it, we have so many things that like me, my boyfriend, and my two boys all do together, you know, whether it's like, playing, you know, cards, or, you know, we, I mean, yes, we drag them off their computers, we're gonna go and do something, we're gonna go take a walk, like, we go on vacation. And I understand like, you know, I think those moments are so special. And like, I feel like they're fleeting that the fact my 15 year olds willing to hang out with me, I'm hanging on to that, you know, as long as possible. Anybody who's not shunning me

Scott Benner 1:05:50
yet anybody who doesn't think that's gonna come to a grinding halt is not paid? Yes.

Candace 1:05:54
Like, I can see the ticking, you know, the fact that like, in any moment,

Scott Benner 1:05:59
and maybe, look, let's just just take ourselves out of who we are for a second. If that's not how a person feels that I understand this. I understand not caring if they play video games all day, because I don't feel like a person who wants to be around all the time. Together, maybe your husband and your ex husband didn't have that with his father, whatever. But I didn't know that was my father either. But that's I mean, the point is that some I think some people just aren't, aren't wired that way. And I don't think they're men necessarily. I think it could be women as well, like some people are just not parental. You know, like, in that way. I think that it

Candace 1:06:35
I think it's, it's something like about being related. It's not just parental. I think it's something about the way he engages with people in general. Like, I think he struggles with people and friendships and he doesn't have a lot of close friends. I think there's something about the way he relates to people and engages with people. That has some obviously issues. Yeah, that's,

Scott Benner 1:06:56
that makes me sad. Yeah. And I get I understand, it happens, and I don't think I'm perfect at it. I think there are probably times where I'm around my kids, where they're probably like, Oh, this guy get him. Of course, I'm not quite getting it as good as I could. But at least, I always feel like at least when it's over, and they're off living their own lives. And I'm hopefully old and alive, that I won't regret the time we spent, like, I might say, I wish things would have went differently. But I know that I I was there and I tried. And that

Candace 1:07:29
yeah, you're never gonna wish that you had like less of that.

Scott Benner 1:07:32
Yeah. And that they'll look back and say, you know, not a perfect person. Always. They're like, Oh, always available. And I mean, I think that's just what I'm shooting for. I don't know this whole thing's weird.

Candace 1:07:48
Yeah. And it's it's just, I get I guess, I don't know why she was so surprised by it. I think I shouldn't have been but I still was, I guess I had hopes with the diabetes. Like, yeah, like, he's gonna be responsive. He's gonna do the right thing. He's gonna, like really be involved. And it's like,

Scott Benner 1:08:06
but the truth now just went exactly the way it was gonna go. It was Yeah. So yeah, I was I think I was naive to think anything different is the answer. Don't expect things from people they don't have to give.

Candace 1:08:18
I don't know. I don't think there's an answer. I think all you can do is, I mean, I've worked really hard to have a good relationship with him and try not to be judgmental and to be compassionate and put out there that this is hard. And that I'm like, I mean, I bet I'm open 24/7 You can call me you can text me like, I'm happy to talk to you. And, and I don't, I don't know. I just I don't know how you get the urgency into somebody I know that the nurse call them and explain sort of the dangers, especially once we got to the pump of like high blood sugar and what you need to do and you know, but I still don't think you necessarily gets it.

Scott Benner 1:08:53
Yeah. Okay. Oh, there you go. I'm gonna end on. I don't think you can expect things from people they don't have to give. Yeah, and you're gonna have to adjust and work around those things. It's just you're you're asking a flower to be a rock, vice versa, whatever. Just not gonna happen. Yeah, so she, jeez. Well, this was fun.

Candace 1:09:15
That was fun.

Scott Benner 1:09:19
Candace, just would have done what your mom told you. This all would have been okay.

Candace 1:09:24
Oh, I just want to marry a Jewish boy.

Scott Benner 1:09:28
I don't even know if he ever said that to you. I just imagined that while you were getting.

Candace 1:09:32
She actually did. I mean, I think it was kind of like, oh, yeah, I think she'd probably expect that I wasn't going to marry a Jewish boy, you know. And I feel very lucky. I have my boyfriend who is like this wonderful father figure to the boys and they love him and he fills up all those cracks that are missing. You know, like he's the one who shows up to every conference and shows up to everything and goes to the doctor's appointments with me and has his notebook out with all his questions and you know, they have all these their bedtime routines with him. And so like they're getting that they just don't get that from the person. They really want it from the most, which is my ex like they so badly want it from him. I can see them, you know, really trying to get it and it's just not getting heard.

Scott Benner 1:10:14
Yeah, one of my brothers is a really excellent stepfather. And there's not enough praise that goes,

Candace 1:10:23
No, there's not there really needs to be like, a lot more like, even just the name like so. You know, we're not married. So people ask my kids all the time, like, Who's that? And, you know, like, we've I've tried to like, what do you want to say he is, you know, and because people ask all the time, is that your dad? Is that your dad? I mean, our doctor, the dentist, they all think that that's their dad because they've never seen the other guy, you know? And I'm like, Well, you can say like, your bone is dead. You could say he's like your stepdad like, you know, and I think they end up saying stepped out because that feels comfortable. And people know what that means. But there really isn't the name for that person. You know, weird

Scott Benner 1:10:57
things step that I wonder what it means. Is it like a step away from my dad? Like step dad meaning homozygous? I'm googling Google way. I know another Stanford. I know, we're just the word come from Google. Don't just tell me how can you tell me stepdad means another term for stepfather? Like that is not valuable for redundant on my a man who is the husband of or a partner of one's mother after the divorce or separation of one's parents? Or the death of a father? Yeah, but where does the word come from? Like, why did somebody first say stepped out? Step? One, seven. away, right? Like that's the Yeah, how it makes you feel?

Candace 1:11:36
Yeah, and it sucks because he does not feel that way. He feels like they're that

Scott Benner 1:11:40
he's the top step. Yeah, totally calm top step that I will. Please don't

Candace 1:11:46
actually I call him the phone baby daddy who likes faux that's actually his title.

Scott Benner 1:11:53
Okay, this I would have left you till now. I'm just kidding.

Candace 1:11:57
Thank you, God. I just want to leave you a name that you'll have to bleep out

Scott Benner 1:12:05
to leave on a laugh canvas. That's all. Thanks. Yeah, you were very kind to do this. It's uh,

Candace 1:12:14
yeah, no problem. I felt like there had to be other people out there like me, you know, like, it's hard. No, he's not like, my ex isn't the devil like, right? He's not this bad person who's doing bad things out in the world. He doesn't care. It's like, what do you do with somebody who's indifferent? And I know like I said, I don't have the answer. They just know that I'm living in it sucks.

Scott Benner 1:12:31
Yeah. Okay. Can I ask you one more question, but I'm gonna stop the recording. Okay, yeah. Did your ex have a huge

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#624 Defining Thyroid: TSH Testing

Scott and Jenny Smith, CDE share insights on thyroid disorder.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 624 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's episode is the third in the defining thyroid series. And today Jenny Smith and I will be talking about TSH testing. The defining thyroid series will be a short but important series of information about living with thyroid disease, also about how to identify it, test it, get your doctor to take you seriously how to get the medication, right, and all kinds of other stuff. It's possible that thyroid is going to come up in your life with type one. And knowing what to do if it happens is a big deal. Wasted diagnosis time is wasted lifetime. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin.

If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver for someone who has type one, you could take the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox in fewer than 10 minutes. When you do this, it will be completely anonymous. They will be HIPAA compliant. You will be helping people with type one diabetes, and you will be supporting the podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. If you're looking for the defining diabetes series, they're available in your podcast player or at Juicebox Podcast calm. At that website you'll also find the diabetes Pro Tip series. Ask Scott and Jenny. The diabetes variables episodes after dark episodes algorithm pumping based episodes, how we eat series. It's all right there. It's either in your podcast player or at juicebox podcast.com. At the end of this episode, and at the end of every defining thyroid episode, I will list the symptoms of hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, and Graves disease. Start here just TSH testing right is this is described here is the first line of testing for hypothyroidism. Your doctor will measure your thyroid stimulating hormone, which is TSH levels with a blood test. TSH is secreted by the pituitary gland to stimulate thyroid hormone. If Ts, if TSH levels are too high, you will likely be diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Now, this is where people get confused. Yeah, and they get screwed a little too, because, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna drop this story here a little real quickly. After my wife had Arden, she started having a ton of symptoms of hypothyroidism,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:24
and pretty common post pregnancy. And it got

Scott Benner 3:27
worse and worse. And she'd go to doctors. And as it was happening to her, she was also gaining weight. And so she'd go to a doctor, the doctor would hear her, you know, I have, you know, trouble sleeping, I'm not rested, I feel you know, my hair's falling out like this stuff. I'm gaining a bunch of weight. And the doctors would tell her, I feel terrible, but they would over and over again they go, we'll lose weight, and we'll see what happens. So she'd go home and kill herself trying to lose weight, but she couldn't because her thyroid wasn't working. Now, her tests would come back elevated, but not out of range, quote unquote, like not out of range. And so no doctor ever would offer her the medication. Now we're, you know, we were smart enough to figure out that this is what Kelly had. But we're younger, and we just couldn't get someone to do it. Right. So one day we were in the we just started doctor shopping at that point. Yeah. And we're in an office one day, and the guy looks at her and says you should try losing weight. And I looked him in the face and she punched you know, I know I honest that she was still calm. One of the one of the symptoms that that Kelly had when she was untreated was that she was kind of nasty. Like, I don't know another way to put it. And I looked at the doctor and I said listen, I don't know anything about this, but this medication that treats hypothyroidism can it hurt her if she doesn't have hypothyroidism. And he goes, and not really. And I was like, well then give it to her. And let's see what happens. Right? Like, I mean, we'll just use it for a month, you know, and just find out, right? Two weeks later, I've said, you know, privately to my wife, like, she was like the person I remembered again. Yeah. And it was bad. Like, I had dug a hole out back in case I had to, you know, get rid of her. She was she was becoming really, really

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:28
know that we joke all the time. So clearly,

Scott Benner 5:31
there's no real hole. But I mean, like it was, it was to the point where I was like, I don't know, like what to do for this person? Yeah, like, she was just unreasonable. She wasn't

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:41
herself. Really, the attitude that was there was relative to a hormone that was,

Scott Benner 5:46
yeah. Yeah, you know, and this is an aside, but we, at that time, knew, you know, our kids were younger, and Arden used to, like play, like some sport where we'd all to get, you know, parents would get together on the weekends. And I'm, you know, I'm not making this up. There was one mom, who was just known around town to be, like, nasty, and it was nasty. Like, she was a mean, lady, you know. And years later, we bumped into her somewhere, and she just wasn't. And my was so obvious that someone said, hey, you know, you look great. What's going on? And she said, I'll I found out, I had hypothyroidism, and I'm treating it now. And I'm telling you, different person, and we got in the car, and I was like, that's what happened to you.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:39
You are a mean person.

Scott Benner 6:41
And not all the time and sometimes just out of nowhere, and I don't, you know, I mean, listen, I don't understand everything that the thyroid controls, but

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:50
that was mood is definitely one of them. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:53
no kidding. Because it struck my son the same way when he got Hashimotos to, like, he was like, we were like, What is that's what God has to test them was just his personality seemed to shift them anyway. So okay, so the TSH Test is super simple, right? You get a blood test, you're going to come back, but the next step is when your TSH which we'll let's talk about here, thyroid stimulating hormone, the hormone produced by the pituitary gland that stimulates the thyroid gland to inhibit or release hormones, you're going to get that back in a range? Correct? Under two, they're going to call normal. Correct. Right.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:34
And in some cases under two and a half, they're considering that normal? Yes, I misspoke. Okay. Yeah, usually above like, point 4.5. Potentially all the way up to like a four or a five range may be considered normal. There are some ages and some timeframes like pregnancy, first trimester under 2.5. Second and third trimester under three years, kind of what's looked at in terms of, you know, management goals for those age can make a difference, because as you age, TSH increases with age. So there are some different says in, I guess what it brings in is the need to individualize as we're already used to doing with diabetes. So thyroid needs to be individualized to

Scott Benner 8:30
Yeah, I listen, I'm clearly not a doctor. But if you asked me privately, I will tell you that if you have symptoms of hypothyroidism, I don't care if that test comes back. 345678 like you make someone give you, you know, the, I mean, I mean, it is a drug, but it's a little hormone replacement. It's like not a big deal. It's the tiniest little pill, and make somebody give it to you because because these problems become cumulative. And they can get they can get heavier on your on your body after time. You know what I mean? It's not It's no joke, right?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:08
Yes. And some, as you mentioned, in terms of that range, and you went forward, especially with your symptoms, you know, with your wife. If your TSH looks normal, but you have symptoms, you're not crazy, right? Your range may very well not be what is preferred by your body. So it's always important to like always step out and say, Hey, I am feeling this way, despite these levels looking this way. And you know, then another step could definitely be things like the antibody testing and things like looking at T four T three, three, T four, three, T T three, all of those can be additional steps in looking further

Scott Benner 9:53
and if you have if you have Hashimotos and they can, they can, you know, look at your thoughts roid or touch your thyroid and see that, then the number they're not going to argue so much about it usually just happens to those people who just have hypothyroidism. And you know, I'm just gonna say this here, and I don't mean for it to be, you know, I don't want to be harsh, but I think it's pretty, pretty well known that doctors can ignore women's health concerns. A lot of time. Absolutely. Yeah. So,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:27
I mean, it's a big reason that even in type one, diabetes is considered management strategy, whether you're male or female, and that we know that that's not the case. Yeah, females have different management needs they do. So

Scott Benner 10:42
I just think that it's simple. I mean, you see, even with, you know, it's a bias you see with with diabetes, too, right? If an adult goes in to an endos office and has elevated blood sugars, they look them up and down. And if you look thin and fit, then you're type one, you know, if you if you look heavy, oh, then you're type two, these things have nothing to do with whether you're type one or type two.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:06
Right? Yeah. And sometimes often, it's even the opposite. Regardless of how you look, they don't even look at you. It's just you got elevated levels, your type two, because you're an adult,

Scott Benner 11:16
yeah, you're certain age. And that's it, you're certain age, there's a lot of human biases that exist. And I think that my, my wife, by way of an example was, was hit with them when she was trying to because she's taller, and curvy to begin with. And so Oh, you're gaining weight, eat less, exercise more, you know, like, and then you start thinking, why did you start a new job? I sit at a desk a lot, maybe it is, and that's the thing, we you said, like, don't think you're crazy. Because like, you start thinking, like, well, maybe I'm wrong. But, you know, my wife had a ton of symptoms, like it was obvious to anybody what was wrong with her right. And, you know, just nobody did anything for

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:59
you. I think the bigger picture there too, is while you bring in some of the things like oh, I sit at a desk, and, you know, maybe it is that I'm not very active. But if that hasn't changed, and you have these symptoms, your body has changed. You haven't changed your eating habits. It's not like you're going, you know, to some donut shop every single day and you weren't doing it before, and now you're gaining weight will clearly stop eating the donuts then. But, you know, if you haven't, and you've got all these symptoms, there's a problem that needs to be addressed. Because you haven't shifted anything.

Scott Benner 12:30
I'll tell you right now, with hindsight, I look back, Kelly had Arden and then suddenly got skinny, like, which just was not her vibe ever. Like she was just always kind of like she kind of like a classic American Girl look like if that makes sense. And suddenly, she was thin in places. And now I realized, I mean, as we talk about these, you know, these episodes, she probably it came on, she got hyper first, then then the inflammation took over and she got hypo and that

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:01
is exactly what happened to my mom, right after my brother was born. Really? Yes, she had all of those. I mean, she had the like, she had the like goiter she had the like, eyes were like, you know, much more pronounced. And they did. I mean, they did a what was at that point, it was like an iodine burnout. It was like a thyroid burnout. And now she has, she takes a typical levothyroxine. And so she's technically got hypo thyroid now, because of earlier, what was hyper? So

Scott Benner 13:36
just for kicks, does your brother have any autoimmune diseases?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:42
So interestingly, he has the same issue with his parathyroid that my dad's sister has. And so that's the autoimmune disorder that he drew the straw for, I guess, in which, you know, they, they manage that very interestingly and very differently, and he's got to take interest, just he doesn't have diabetes and doesn't take an injection for anything like that. But he takes a daily injection of a medication that helps to manage the problems with his parathyroid hormone. So

Scott Benner 14:24
in another episode, we will go over this parathyroid gland because that was the first like, when when Cole was diagnosed with as he was being diagnosed with Hashimotos. The doctor thought they saw something on his parathyroid. And we were starting to talk about having his parathyroid removed. And it was very scary for a minute, like, you know, yes.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:47
And they try really hard not to remove the whole parathyroid. My brother actually had that done and that's the reason he's on this really expensive medication. When he got a second opinion to the Mayo Clinic, they're like, I don't know why this was done, blah, blah, blah. There's a whole bunch of mess of management for that. So

Scott Benner 15:08
yeah, okay, so we'll get into that. We'll dig into that in another episode. Okay, so I'm dizzy now about thyroid stuff. So we so the TSH testing is a simple blood test. I'll tell you that once you're, once you know that you have hypo hyperthyroidism, Graves' disease, whatever. The next thing to really be clear about is to keep up with the testing, you should get blood work done. I mean, in the beginning, it's pretty frequently like until that so they can dial the medication. And But afterwards, I don't know how, how frequently do you think somebody who's well maintained should still be checking those levels,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:44
I would expect every six to at least six months to at least a year should be checked. I mean, I because of my family history of thyroid disorder, and also having type one myself, I get them checked just once a year myself. My mom typically gets them checked about every six months, but she's also you know, over 65. So she does a lot of other type of but if you're managed well, the dose is working for you. And you don't have a return of symptoms. Right? Then testing at least once a year I would expect is probably the baseline.

Scott Benner 16:20
It's also important like my son actually just yesterday, it's so weird how things line up when I'm recording this podcast, he came to me and he said, Hey, I have to send an email to the doctor. He goes, I'm grinding my teeth, which could be a side effect of some of the medication. Oh, so he's think is so it's what he's saying is I think I got to get a blood test to see if my TSH is too low. And we have to back this medicine off a little bit.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 16:43
Yeah. And how adult of him to make that decision on his own.

Scott Benner 16:49
Good job. I was actually gonna, like, tell him again, I'm proud of him for paying attention. Because yeah, that's the next thing is very much like diabetes. I'm sad to say you're not going to get a thyroid problem. Take a pill one day and just forever. Never think of the fact that you're gonna write. I mean, it doesn't

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:08
involve the micromanagement day to day considerations that diabetes does. But it is always something that in the background again. You should be paying attention to your body awareness.

Scott Benner 17:22
Yeah. Alright, so we did TSH testing, thyroid stimulating hormone, TSH, which is a word you're going to hear a lot if you have it. You want to do t 43. Next. Sure. All right.

Thanks so much for listening today. Please stop back frequently for more episodes of The Juicebox Podcast and to continue with the defining thyroid series. If you like Jenny, she's for hire. You can find her at integrated diabetes.com. She helps people with their type one diabetes, she's really good at it. So if you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, and you're listening in an app, but you're not subscribed or following, please hit subscribe and follow on that app. And don't forget to tell a friend. Hey, if you find the podcast on YouTube, we started putting up animated versions of the defining diabetes series. They're really cute, great for kids. Very visual. Go find it. Alright, now let's go through the symptoms. We will start with hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism signs and symptoms may include fatigue, increased sensitivity to cold, constipation, dry skin, weight gain, puffy face, hoarseness, muscle weakness, elevated blood cholesterol level, muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness, pain stiffness or swelling and your joints heavier than normal or irregular menstrual periods. thinning hair slow heart rate depression impaired memory in large thyroid gland. In infants you're looking for a yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes which is commonly called jaundice. In most cases this occurs when a baby's liver can't metabolize a substance called bilirubin, which normally forms when the body recycles old or damaged red blood cells. You also might see a larger protruding tongue, difficulty breathing, hoarse crying, or an umbilical hernia. As progression happens in infants, you may move on to constipation poor muscle tone, where excessive sleepiness hypothyroidism in children and teens may indicate with poor growth resulting in a short stature, delayed development of permanent teeth, delayed puberty, poor mental development. That list is from the Mayo Clinic. Let's move on now to hyperthyroidism. This list is from the Cleveland Clinic. Hyperthyroidism may present with rapid heartbeat or palpitations, feeling shaky and or nervous weight loss increased appetite diarrhea and more frequent bowel movements, vision changes, thin warm and moist skin menstrual changes, intolerance to heat and excessive sweating, sleep issues, swelling and enlargement of the neck from an enlarged thyroid gland, hair loss and change in hair texture, it would get brittle bulging of the eyes as seen with Graves disease and muscle weakness. Okay, back to the Mayo Clinic for Graves disease, you're looking for anxiety and irritability. A fine tremor of the hands or fingers, heat sensitivity and an increase in perspiration, or warm or moist skin. Weight loss despite normal eating habits, enlarged thyroid gland change and menstrual cycle erectile dysfunction or reduced libido, frequent bowel movements, bulging eyes, fatigue, thick red skin, usually on the shins or tops of the feet. Rapid or irregular heartbeat palpitations, sleep disturbance. If you your child or someone you love has any of these symptoms, please seek medical attention. I want to thank you so much for listening and remind you again to please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. If you're a US resident who has type one, or you're a US resident who is the caregiver of someone with type one, your quick and easy answers that are HIPAA compliant and completely anonymous will be of great value to people living with type one diabetes. It will take you fewer than 10 minutes at T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox to make a huge difference in someone else's life. And you'll be supporting the podcast. Thanks so much again for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast

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Scott Benner 2/2/22 Scott Benner 2/2/22

#623 Josh Has Even More Feels

Josh (from ep 435) and some of his children have type 1 diabetes. Today he shares more about the impacts of autoimmune disease on his family.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 623 of the Juicebox Podcast.

I posted an episode on February 1 2021, called Josh has all the fields and without any planning whatsoever, on February 2 2022, Josh is back to talk more about how he feels. If you haven't heard Josh's first episode, it won't really matter if you hear it first or second. So you could listen to this and decide you want to hear more and then go find episode 435. Where you can go to for 35 right now listen to that, and then come back to this any way you decide to do it, just remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Please remember, also, if you're a US resident who has type one or is the caregiver of a type one, I would love it if you took the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom. Head over to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox and say hello to Dexcom. The podcast is also sponsored by arm the pod makers of the Omni pod dash and the recently announced Omni pod five. To get started on that Omni pod dash right now go to Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box, you may be eligible for a free 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash.

Josh 2:10
Hi there. My name is Josh Taube. And I am not good to introduce myself apparently. I am Josh Tabi. And I was on an episode previously and I'm coming back to do an update. I have type one diabetes and I have children with type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 2:32
Ah, Josh, your episode was called Josh has Josh's all the fields all the fields. Josh has all the fields. Yes, you. You certainly did that day. Do you? Generally speaking? Yes.

Josh 2:43
Yeah. And I'm really, um, I was. I was very nervous on that episode. And this episode, I am just scared of what I'm going to say. So I just don't know what I'm going to say.

Scott Benner 2:57
So the first time nervous, but then you got through that. Okay. Now this time, because you're more comfortable. You feel like you might say things you don't mean to say?

Josh 3:06
I definitely. I definitely. I didn't hold back or anything in that first episode. It's just life has gotten even more complicated and even more feely that, you know, it doesn't do the first episode title doesn't do a certain good service to me because I have even more fields now.

Scott Benner 3:28
Alright, well, perfect. Everybody get your tissues out. We're gonna talk.

Josh 3:32
And maybe that's the title. Josh has even more fields. Josh found

Scott Benner 3:35
more fields. But that sounds creepy. So we'll probably not go that way. But anyway, so real quick, your background, your professional background.

Josh 3:44
I am a licensed professional counselor, here in Texas. I enjoy my job, but to VA that I guess that's my professional background. I work with

Scott Benner 3:58
mental health. Perfect. And you've had type one for

Josh 4:01
since I was in kindergarten. And so I think I'm actually coming up on 30 years now. Wow. Roughly, that's a big number. I want to say next Mother's Day will be 30 years.

Scott Benner 4:15
You got type one on Mother's Day.

Josh 4:18
I got at least I got diagnosed on Mother's Day. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 4:20
Right. Well, you probably got it sooner. And yeah, yeah. I did you say that the last time?

Josh 4:26
I think so i There's a story of of a baseball game. My dad wanted me to go or I was at a baseball game. And after the baseball game, we were going to go to the hospital because you know, I was urinating in the middle of night and all that sort of stuff. My mom's a nurse and she she knew the signs and symptoms had called my pediatrician pediatrician said Yeah, bring him in. And it ended up being a Mother's Day. Wow.

Scott Benner 4:50
We just got my mom at TV on Mother's Day. But you were really, you're really on the edge of the of the cutting edge right there with that. Absolutely. Now over how many children you have.

Josh 5:02
I got three kiddos. I've got Jack who's 10 Lily, who's seven. And Olivia, who just turned three. We just turned in June.

Scott Benner 5:12
Wow. Happy birthday, when? When you were on last time, which wasn't all that long ago.

Josh 5:18
And I was gonna say it was actually Arden 16th birthday.

Scott Benner 5:22
You were on 16th birthday. Oh, so it's about a little over a year, a tiny bit over a year since you recorded the last time. And we're still in the midst of COVID Yeah, it's just here. It just lives here. Now. It's, it's not I, my son's like three weeks away from going back to college. And I will tell you, and not that this maybe is a surprise to you or anybody listening. But if people didn't believe it at the beginning, my children need to go back to some sort of a an existence that mirrors what they expect, very, very badly. The the boredom is we've gone somehow around boredom and come back around the other side of it again. It's just it's it's absolutely impactful on them in ways that I don't think I understand yet.

Josh 6:12
It's I mean, in terms of development, kids and adults, it's just stunted development and in life.

Scott Benner 6:19
Yeah, we're just literally standing still waiting for somebody to say it's okay. Go back again. And it's terrible. When I spoke to you last time, how many if any of your children had diabetes?

Josh 6:33
Is that a question you ask everybody? Jeez, no, um, I, my seven year old was diagnosed. And I think we were we were worried about my, my 10 year old and I think I even gave an update, right before you posted the episode. But um, but now my 10 year old as a of three or four months ago, maybe a little bit more time. Time is another thing that COVID has messed up. He has been diagnosed with type one. And he very quickly went from thank yous within a couple of weeks went from just doing a long acting Joseba into doing a Novolog

Scott Benner 7:21
for me allowance on he said he didn't have much of a honeymoon at all.

Josh 7:24
Well, he's still honeymooning and like, you know, it almost felt like for a few weeks there a couple weeks ago that we could even pull back all of them the Nova log and he would be alright. But um, but it just kind of comes and goes,

Scott Benner 7:38
yeah, it comes it goes diabetes, it comes and goes. And which ends up being worse than Yeah, it just being consistent. Because, you know, as everyone can imagine, you you come out in the morning doing what you think is right. And suddenly your body's like, oh, I can help to today. And you're like, No, I already put insulin in there. And then you're fighting lows all day long. Yeah, so now your 10 year old your seven year old. You anybody else dog have diabetes parakeet or anything like that?

Josh 8:07
No, not that I know of. Yeah, we we ended up getting my my three year old tested through trial. What's that? trauma? Yeah. And, and she does not have the any of the genes or whatever it is. So we're hoping that sticks?

Scott Benner 8:28
No antibodies are markers for her. Okay, well,

Josh 8:32
she's only three. And there's research, you know, out there that, that, uh, you know, three is kind of the young point in in testing. So,

Scott Benner 8:41
you go do it again, at some point.

Josh 8:43
Probably not just gonna it was it was it was kind of a, you know, one of those personal ethical things of like, do we even want to do this right now? Yeah. So

Scott Benner 8:55
was getting the test like a drunk dial? Almost we like just

Josh 9:02
No, no, hey, I mean, it was it was a concerted, you know, yeah, we should just because, I mean, obviously something some sort of gene something is against us. And so we got a we got to get tested just to kind of see, so we can at least prepare.

Scott Benner 9:21
Yeah, well, I'm glad you got the news you did. I guess I'm just gonna outright ask you like, what's the impact when a second child's diagnosed?

Josh 9:33
Well, it was interesting, because the seven year old, she took it really, you know, really pretty well. Like her biggest memory of that time of going to the hospital. She just stayed one night was finally getting to have her first insulin shot because she got a really, really good hot dog at the hospital. So that's kind of her personality and She takes the both the kids take the shots, just, you know, easy, but my seven year old lives in the moment and my 10 year old has a little bit bigger perspective. So, you know, he's thinking about school because he hasn't been to school with diabetes yet. And so he's thinking about school and friends and you know, having to leave the classroom, whether he wants to do that or not, and all this sort of stuff. So the emotional impact has been bigger with him. But when it comes to, you know, just making more room in the, in the diabetes closet and more room in the refrigerator for insulin. It hasn't been that big

Scott Benner 10:43
of a deal. Yeah. So your son has a, like a wider view. And so he's planning for things and that means worrying about things that he can't quite see completely yet, where your daughter's more like a fruit fly. No offense, like, she's just Yeah, yeah.

Josh 10:57
Absolutely. You know, she understands and like she'll, even if she, you know, is on her phone. So both the kids now have phones, because with Dexcom, we got to, so they, you know, they, they have their phones, and she'll bring it to us and say, Hey, we're, I'm getting higher, I'm getting low. Usually it's low so that she can have some candy. But, uh, other than that, she's kind of just take every moment as it is.

Scott Benner 11:25
She like, Oh, bad news, low blood sugar, I'll go to no worry. I figured this one right out. There personalities like this prior to diabetes.

Josh 11:37
Yeah, yeah. You know, if if Jack was on an episode with you, it would be Jack has all the fields as well. So he, um, he's, he's a lot like me. And it's one of those sorts of things where it's, you know, 111 bad thing will kind of mess up his day. He'll let one bad thing kind of make it make it all bad. And he really has to work hard to, for his mind to change his heart. But his heart does the does the talking. Yeah, it's interesting. I might be a little like that. So I'm definitely like, yeah,

Scott Benner 12:16
I don't know that it'll ruin my whole day. But I can, I can start having fairly existential conversations with myself where I'm like, there's no answer to any of this. And I don't even know why I'm bothering to think about it. But sometimes it seems. I guess to me, as an adult, it seems like if I can use this opportunity to think about what happened, like maybe I'll make a different or better decision. In the future. If something like this comes up, I try to think of it more pragmatically like that. But there are times where if I just, if I was, it happened to me when I was a kid, like as an adult, now I'm better at it. But if I just like when my heart starts pulling me if I let it go, like, it's gonna definitely end up with me crying somewhere. Like, I might not be for long, but I'm gonna be upset by the time it's over. I can remember, even the planning for the future stuff that you talked about when I was little, eight, 910 I would sometimes make up scenarios of things to happen so that I could figure out how to handle them in case they happened.

Josh 13:20
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And when you're eight, 910, sometimes those things are are nice and fun and fanciful. But then when you get to be a grown up, you know, I, you know, sometimes go to bed thinking okay, if someone were to break in my house right now, what would I do? You know, where's my nearest safety point? And it's just stuff like that. That, uh, I guess maybe, maybe it's just me, but my adult brain starts to do at night.

Scott Benner 13:48
Oh, Josh, I don't understand people who don't think for most of us. I don't I don't what would I pick up? What can I hit them with what I tell the kids which way to go to get out, like, you know, this whole thing. And that's just on like, one little idea. I once had this conversation with my brother in law and I was like, you've never thought about what to do if your house catches on fire. And he goes, No, I was like, Oh God, I have like multiple plants. case the fires on one side and cases on the other side. I was like, why I can't that's interesting to me, but I sometimes feel very jealous of those people because my house probably isn't going to catch fire. And it's fairly likely that no one's ever going to break into my home. Although I do have a plan I also know what I'm going to do if I find a genie bottle so I don't understand all you who don't have that thought out either because you know you're gonna get in the moment screw it up and end up with a giant penis and no money and it's gonna be so big you're not gonna be able to walk off the beach and I know that's where you're gonna find it on the beach because that's how it wasn't a cartoon when I was little so yeah, I don't I don't get any I don't get they're not thinking things through. Now. I'm not I'm There's a word, there's a technical word that I don't know, like obsessive, I'm not obsessive about it. I don't really think through what's going to happen if someone breaks him. But I've had the conversation with myself, like, what am I going to do here? How far would I be willing to go to help people? Like, I don't? Yeah, you know what I mean? That kind of thing.

Josh 15:18
I tend to I can, I can usually shut myself off after long enough in and being able to say, you know, is there any? Is there any good to this line of thinking? You know, that's, it's a counseling. Trick. Not really a trick, but you know, something, just to be mindful. It's like, is this line of thinking? Helpful? No,

Scott Benner 15:43
it's not? Are you at least not? Are you able to use that with your son?

Josh 15:49
We have broached it. He doesn't hate. We've We've certainly broached it in, in a sense of like, don't let this ruin your day. Is this is focusing on this helpful for having a good rest of your day. But I don't think he I don't think his his worries would be so chronic. That he would, that it would benefit that much. But yeah, in terms of letting something ruin his day, or, or even. It was actually last night, it was about, about all the school stuff and being like, look, you know, history has shown that your worries are always worse than things that actually happen. So you know, it doesn't, it doesn't help to worry about it right now. We still got, you know, how long we had until school starts. So

Scott Benner 16:56
yeah, that's the, the when I when I try to tell people like I've worries a waste of your imagination, because you just start making things up that may or may not ever happen, and now you're stressed or anxious about things that very likely will never occur.

Josh 17:12
And like that, worry, worry is a waste of your imagination.

Scott Benner 17:16
I mean, you really are just making up things in your head at that point. I mean, let's don't get me wrong, if you know, seven days in a row, someone hits you in the head with a stick, that you go to bed on the seventh day, you're like, Yeah, I think that guy's gonna hit me again, with a sick tomorrow. Like, that's, that's a different thing. But when you have no reason to think this other than your own, you know, made up concerns and it's hard to to explain to a child, but you're, you're making things up, you know, that that may or may not ever happen, like wait to see if they happen, then be upset if you want to be or, or come up with a plan. That something is good, I'm sorry, you're gonna say something.

Josh 17:56
But to think about, you know, kind of going back and looking at it in a bigger perspective, right. We were actually also talking yesterday, there's, there's a lot of deep conversations yesterday, about, you know, people don't usually live through a pandemic, this is not a usual thing. You know, and, and so everybody has had to deal with these, these things thrust upon them. And, and, and having to relinquish control of certain aspects of life. And, and for that's what, that's kind of what being diagnosed with diabetes. And lots of other chronic illnesses. Is, is, you know, where you you relinquish that control you? You no longer get to? I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say there. But it's it. The week, the COVID thing has affected everybody like it's a chronic illness.

Scott Benner 19:03
Yeah. So there's, I don't know if it's a saying or something. It's an idea or concept. I don't really know. But the idea of that the worst thing that's ever happened to you, is the worst thing that's ever happened to you. And so if you've lived through I mean, listen, I'm 50 right? If I look back over my life right now, what do I remember? Cuban Missile Crisis? Nope. That was before me. Really. I remember gas shortage. I remember the space shuttle blowing up. I remember Reagan getting shot. You know, like, these are things that never really touched me. I grew up in a part of the country. I didn't see bad weather. That was frightening. So for me the world was a place that was about getting up, taking a shower, going to school or playing with my friends. Trying to keep my parents off my back. Trying to find a Playboy magazine in the woods somewhere like this was pretty much my existence, right like it was that 1980s version of standby me for the most part, like nothing too terrible was happening. And now all the sudden, not only is that been our existence, that's now the vibe I laid on my kids when they were little. And then they got computers and cell phones and the internet like I had the internet a little bit when I was younger, I'm talking about the real internet, you don't I mean, like, yeah, I can get like, I could send my desk through my my internet connection. At this point, it's so fast, and it's a different world, everything feels possible. Everything feels like you can get to it. I grew up thinking that I could never write a book, because I didn't know someone that wrote a book. But when my son wanted to play baseball, he immediately had contact with a number of people who had played baseball, in college and professionally and all of a sudden, this feels real. And that makes the world feel at your fingertips, it makes you it gives you a feeling of control. That is not true. It's not really true. And I hate to say something like we're all on a rock that's hurling through space. But we're all on a rock that's hurling through space. And so once things got so like that, once, people's lives, could even get segmented. Like there are plenty of people who don't live the life I've described, right? But because of the way society set up, I don't see them. So they're a story, or an idea, right? There's a town somewhere where nobody has money, or nobody works, or drugs are really huge problem. That's not where I live. And it suddenly feels like I can bring the parts of life to me that I need. And the parts that I don't want to see, I don't have to see. And then this thing happened. And you're like, Oh, I'm not in control of anything. This could have happened at any time. And it's, it's, I have to say it's a huge adjustment is an understatement. People are still adjusting to the idea. And you and by the time a generation of people realize that sometimes I have a mask in my pocket, and I need it and sometimes have a mask in my pocket, I don't need it. And that there's times of year when things ebb and flow and rules change. Once that becomes so normal, you know, it's gonna stop. And then you'll have a generation of people who are just like, constantly thinking, it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. And then one day, it won't come we'll get through a whole nother generation and those children will be like, Oh, it's not gonna happen. And then, I mean, then who knows? It could happen again in five minutes. Or it could be a distance of time, like between now and the Black Plague. So, yeah, yeah. It's an overwhelming that lack of the fallacy of control is now suddenly tangible for for literally, for everybody. That's how I That's how I see it anyway. And now I see. And I see your son's situation as, like a micro cosmos of that issue.

Josh 23:03
If that makes it 100% is I mean, about I would think about six weeks ago. Maybe Okay, yeah, about six weeks to go on Antiques take a step back. So when they diagnosed my son, you know, he didn't do any hospitalization, he didn't do anything like that, because we kind of knew it was coming they did run a test for that celiac. And come to find out, he has celiac. We had to we did the endoscopy to to verify and that was the at that point, the most frightening thing in my in my in my life, have you seen my son, you know, go under and that sort of thing so life, but like that feeling of Okay. Okay. He has type one, we got this. And, and that control being ripped again? Or that feeling like okay, I have things under control being ripped again. It's kind of you, you led me right into that turn that that celiac has has really messed with with any sort of security that we had been building because it's so recent. We're still you know, adjusting our kitchen and, and all that sort of stuff to dealing with that.

Scott Benner 24:49
It's almost like it's almost like you're being attacked by multiple sides. And you start fortifying like First you come to the conclusion that I met this happy person who We live in a house in the middle of the woods and everything's great. I smell flowers and sunshine. And then somebody comes from the east. And you're like, oh, no, we're being attacked by the east, you know, from the east and then you fortify, fortify, fortify. And then you get to the point where you're like, Okay, we can withstand this onslaught. Great. And before you can breathe again, somebody is coming from the west. And you're just like, oh, okay, okay. Okay. Except it's that added level of it's happening to your kid, which is contextually something that no one who doesn't have children can understand. Like, I, I tried to I was telling my wife the other day, my son has an an injury, right now, it could end up being pretty impactful on his baseball life. And I was talking to my wife about it. And I said, I can't decide if I'm more upset that his, his path has been diverted. And the all this effort he's put into something could have could end up feeling wasted, which would be a shame. Or if I'm more upset that he's actually physically hurt, or if I'm more upset, that of the things that won't happen for him, or just that my son's having a problem. I was like, it is so confusing inside of me. But all I can tell you is that I'm always worried about all of you. Like, I'm worried about him, I'm worried about you, I'm worried about my daughter, I said I think about my brother, I think about my mom, like my mom is 78. And I don't think a day goes by where I don't think like, I should call my mom or go visit my mom. And I can't most of the time, like most of the time, I can't do that. And then I think of her being by herself. And that makes me think about that, you know, when she had an opportunity, she didn't leave us. And I know all of this is fairly unreasonable, and that people grow up and get older and that children don't have as much time to talk to their parents. But I still think about it fairly regularly. Not for long. It's doesn't hurt me, it doesn't crush me. But I'm always aware of it. I'm always aware that I could have done something else. Or maybe I should have said a thing here or zigged and zagged. And I again, I think them as it was growing ideas. But I realized as I was talking to my wife, like she does not think like that at all. And I think she looked at me for five minutes. Like I was unwell. And I was like, no, no, I'm like, I think you're, you're seeing it too harshly. I'm just saying, I, you guys seem to be the most important thing in the world to me. And I take that job. I fortified my, my my flanks all the time, I'm always trying to help them or put somebody in a good position, or something like that. And I realized as we were sitting in the doctor's office waiting for my son to talk to this person, that it was the third most scared I've ever been in a medical situation in my life. One of them was Kelly, they thought Kelly might have a blood clot in her lung when she was pregnant the first time which she ended up not having, but just the time where we thought she did was the was the most scared I've ever been until somebody told me Arden had diabetes. And then as I sat with my son just waiting to hear about the health of his elbow, I realized that I was more frightened than than I was when a doctor kind of said out loud. I my iron had gone way down. Yeah, and the doctor said this is a sign of cancer. And I of course don't have cancer and that didn't end up being like thankfully what it was but I can tell you that when he said that, to me, was not as frightening as sitting in waiting to find out about my son's elbow.

Josh 28:53
There's certainly a you know, a parenting aspect of that and a personality aspect of that. And I think you know, I share that same thing. When you know we're we're sitting there in the waiting room during this endoscopy we're kind of I'm you know, I'm kind of worried about the, the the immediate thing of you know, what is what is this going to happen to him today like how is he going to take this today? What are we going to all those things of what are we going to do? And I know my wife was worried about that as well but then she she sometimes can have an even bigger you know perspective of like, you know, he he's not going to be able to in like going to to someone's wedding and if they don't have you know, a gluten free cake then these these little things in life that that continue to remind, remind us of these illnesses and. And it took me back to when I was diagnosed. So well, for last last episode I had, it took me about two weeks from my, my, my daughter's the very first in the type of diagnosis that we had for the kids to realize, Oh, um, at first, I was really scared that my daughter was going to have the same sort of upbringing with diabetes that I did. But it took me a little bit to realize on the way things have changed a lot. You know, thank goodness, for Dexcom and, and things like and, and carb counting. So, things have changed a lot and really nothing in her, like we talked about, you know, in her day to day life has, has affected her, you know, I get less sleep, because I'm constantly monitoring blood sugar's my wife gets less sleep. But um, it was, it was nice to kind of have that peace. Okay, this is what it's going to be like, you know, there's, there's future worries about, you know, having children and, or, you know, for her and, and all that sort of stuff. But then now, celiac comes, and celiac pretty much does exactly what it changes exactly, that part of life that I had to change whenever I was young with type one, and that's that diet. And so it's like, it's okay, sense of comfort, and then the carpet pulled out again. And you're right, that, that I I am infinitely more upset that it's my son. And not me. We, we, you know, we were told by his Endo, nice endo his gastro doctor to, you know, have everybody in the family tested just because it's genetic, and that sort of stuff happens. And so I got tested. And if you want me to go on a long rant about the state of health care again, I'm pretty sure I did the last time I can, because it was trouble enough to get me to get a doctor to approve my test. But, um, so I got tested for celiac. And when I got tested, I was wishing that I had it. I wanted to, I wanted him to not be alone. Because that's what I felt when I was younger of this. Because I didn't know any type ones. I, you know, all this diet stuff was was new and changed for me. And I wanted to be, I wanted him to have someone just to that, that he wouldn't be the only one. But I guess fortunately, I'm negative for for celiac. Unfortunately, my youngest, my three year old is positive for celiac. So we have to, we have all three of our kids have chronic illnesses, and then split up. So

Scott Benner 33:34
I forget does your wife have anything?

Josh 33:36
No, she hasn't been able to get the test yet. But she she'll be hopefully getting that ordered in the next few months to see John, but she she doesn't have any celiac symptoms right now. But she doesn't she doesn't have any sort of chronic illnesses or anything like that. You know, you get success. She has scoliosis, but that has not affected her.

Scott Benner 34:00
I feel like that's something you would all trade for right now. Like I'll take that and that's fine. You know, it's funny, you're you're so sincere when you're talking that I thought of a weird joke to make a second ago that I held in because I

Josh 34:17
felt in so many jokes so far. Yeah. Because because I want to know what sort of woods up there and it was Pennsylvania or Pittsburgh that you grew up. Pennsylvania near Philly, Pennsylvania. What sort of woods in Pennsylvania grows play playboys?

Scott Benner 34:30
I don't know, but but people just leave them in piles. I mean, they did back before the internet at least. So you know, I spoken to a little bit on off off the show as well. So I know you're you're a well natured, like funny person. And when I asked if your wife had anything I was gonna say besides horrible taste in men.

Josh 34:53
I mean, for sure. I mean, it's it that was that was that it was and continues to kind of, to irk my, my own mental health of, of that these are all, you know, genetic things and you know, I'm pretty, I'm pretty stable in the it wouldn't have changed probably anything that we would have done or anything like that. And, you know, it doesn't change how we interact with the children except for probably probably increases our patients in some other aspects of life. But um it it. Yeah, I mean, I don't

Scott Benner 35:38
mean this, like you should feel this way or that you should even do it. I'm just asking the question. Have you ever apologized to her?

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Have you ever apologized to her?

Josh 39:58
To to my wife Yes, yeah. Yeah. Oh, and you know, and I guess in my, my deeper into the that spiral that, that well, you know, just kind of said, you know, you should have married somebody else.

Scott Benner 40:17
But that's I didn't talk about with my son though you can't really know what to do or what not to do in I mean, honestly, before the even though you had type one, did you really when you were in your 20s think that any of what's happening to you right now is going to happen? No, no, he would have no way to believe that this was gonna happen. Right. So

Josh 40:38
when I was in my 20s, um, let's see. I mean, it was it was still early 20s. Um, so we would have been, you know, 10 years ago, right after we had my oldest that we went to a geneticist. And I guess, you know, I don't know, the timeline of of research and how they have the education that has evolved with how type one comes about. But they told us that, because I don't have I don't have anybody in my family. I don't know, I don't know, anybody, at least at that time, that has type one diabetes. That there was some sort of some sort of fluke, and that we shouldn't worry that the the, the, the chances for type one in our kids is much less because I don't have any genetic link. Huh?

Scott Benner 41:33
Yeah. Well, I didn't work out. I know.

Josh 41:37
Because this is like the internet. It's like giving us false control of your life. Yeah.

Scott Benner 41:43
Oh, it's Oh, I I think that all the time, that when someone tells you like, Oh, your one kid has diabetes, that's only a 10% greater risk for someone else to in your family. I always think like, that's something they tell you. It's almost like the there'll be a cure in like five years. Don't worry. Like it's there's there's like hope nuggets that people like to try to sprinkle on you. I like how people will come on here and say, like, my doctor doesn't seem to meaningfully understand diabetes at all. But I do really believe this thing that they said it I was like, Yeah, cuz it's confirmation bias. You're like, you want to hear that you want to hear that you're not, you know, at any greater risk. I'll tell you that. Prior to us having kids, you know, I remember my wife saying people in my family are in the bathroom a lot. Right? But okay, who knows what that means? Well, it takes you know, then suddenly, the grandmother gets a celiac diagnosis. When that happens, I don't think Oh, geez, we shouldn't have children, because one of our kids might have an autoimmune disease. Like, that's not where your brain goes, you're just like, Oh, grandma can eat bread. And you know, and like, that's sort of how it is like you. We understand celiac now, much, much better than we did even 20 years ago. And so you're just like, okay, whatever. And no one else in our family has any real history of anything like that. I'm adopted, of course. So who knows? Right? My irons probably been an issue my entire adult life. I didn't know about that. And Kelly, you know, gets thyroid issue after having Arden. But we didn't even understand the connections then back then either it took Arden's nurse practitioner years and years ago to say, because we couldn't get anybody to give Kelly a diagnosis on her thyroid. And so I was talking about it one day, so that so then that's me, like, this podcast shouldn't be any surprise that people who really know me like I have a problem. If I can't figure it out, I start talking to other people. Yeah, until somebody just goes, Oh, I know what that is. Like, to me. That's like the human internet. Like you just keep pinging people until they have a response. It's valuable. And so we find out for that. And now, Cole has Hashimotos you know, which isn't diagnosed, he's 21 years old. And I don't know what's coming next or isn't coming. But I can tell you that yesterday, I spent a number of hours meeting with people from prevention bio, which if you listen to the podcast is the company that came on here and talked about Ms. A blob, if I'm saying it wrong to Ms. A blob, I don't know how they maybe should have picked a different name for that truck. But and I and so I had to sit down with them about how maybe they you know how maybe the podcast could help them get the word out about what they're doing or something. And it was a very preliminary conversation. And at the end of it, I said, Listen, I think what you guys are doing involves science we understand. Which means that you don't need to invent something for the next thing to happen. This thing's either going to work or it isn't right. And you're going to while you're trying to prove it out and get it rolling. If I can be helpful with that, I will be because I think it's valuable. whether it works or not, the Endeavor is very valuable. And then I said words I've never said before I said, because, you know, my children's kids could have diabetes. And I never thought that out loud before my life. But it's completely true. It's completely true that my children might have children who have celiac or a thyroid problem, or diabetes, or any number of issues like that. And there are times when Arden's like, I think I might just adopt if I have kids. And it seems like a very, it's not a scared statement, it seems like a mature statement. Like, you know, she's never said, I don't want to keep this train going. But I think right now, because she's young, it's more like I do not want to have to help a kid with diabetes might be her, I'm sure that will change as she gets older, like her feelings around it. I'm never going to really know until she's older. What this is about, when she can maybe more fully contextualize it for me. But I just found myself at that meeting, thinking maybe I could do something today that might help family members. I never know, you know what I mean? And so let's see what that does. But let me because what's the other option, you just stop living? And that doesn't seem valuable, either. You know,

Josh 46:25
you know, I guess my my thoughts had never gone. I guess they don't they don't stay on, you know, the health of grandkids. But certainly we have talked about and thought about, you know, the the genetic joining of any of our kids in someone else. And how, you know, letting, letting any any of my kids future partners know about me being a alpha one antitrypsin deficiency, I don't know if you remember that from the episode. But um, and that causing can cause more acute issues. Early on in life. So that idea of passing it on, it's, it's scary, and it but you're right, in that it can't, it can't stop us, when you said that what Arden said, you know, the first thing that came to my head was you know that that usual, I say usual, but oftentimes with chronic illnesses, you have this lower self esteem, you have this, you know, mild depression can happen. And so it was kind of screaming of that, but if she is, if she is thinking of it in in a different way, then then yeah, that can be a very mature aspect of her personality.

Scott Benner 48:03
Who knows, she doesn't seem depressed to me, and she doesn't seem burdened by diabetes to me. But, you know, I don't know, like, you know, we'll see, I'm just trying to be aware of things I can tell you that, even though I said it out loud for the first time yesterday, privately in my mind, and this is way pre planning but we talked about pre planning in the beginning. I've won I've often thought that if one day one of my children has a baby, the first time I hold it, I don't want to think please don't have diabetes one day when I when I hold the baby for the first time. And I'm wondering if I'll be able to, like consciously not have that thought. Because I feel like that's gonna be the first thing I think when my skin touches their skin, you know, and you feel the first connection of it. I feel I feel like please just don't have to deal with this. But I don't know You

Josh 49:00
know, you think you think Arden you know when it when it comes to taking care of a kid or diabetes? Do you think Arden thinks you have to start a podcast and you have to interview people daily and, and all that sort of stuff?

Scott Benner 49:13
She's like, I don't have the stamina for that. I don't think she thinks that at all. Actually. I said to her one day I was like, Would you like to take like say I get too old one day do you? Would you like to try to just take the podcast over and she goes that's your thing. I'm okay. I was like, Okay, fine. I don't think she sees it like that at all. Actually, she's if you haven't heard the episode with her yet? It's eye opening.

Josh 49:37
i i You know, Josh has even more fields. I have not not just your podcast, but honestly I have not listened to any podcasts in probably three months.

Scott Benner 49:49
Yeah, your life upside down.

Josh 49:52
moments that I have earbuds in I'm usually listening to. Either really sad me music or heavy metal? So just kind of keeping going. That makes

Scott Benner 50:05
sense to me. Maybe I should just have a whole episode of sad music and heavy metal maybe people like that a little bit.

Josh 50:12
I mean, it could be sad heavy metal. So most, most of it is probably sad. So

Scott Benner 50:19
Well, yeah. Wait, hold on. We're not getting past that without finding out like, what are some of your favorite metal bands?

Josh 50:25
Oh, man. So I go back to this, go back to a comfort area of whenever I was younger, and definitely listening to, to corn to some, some Metallica that sort of era of things. Something like if I'm in the car, and I'm really having all the fields, you know, I used to be big into car audio until I realized it was a waste of money. And and so I'll just you know, belted out and and scream and annoy everybody on the road. But then, when I get home I can be, you know, the call, Mr. Dad? Yeah. Yeah,

Scott Benner 51:11
do that a little bit. I might have a couple of playlists that fit that. That feeling. When I missed my son, I listened to rap music, which I don't predict which I don't particularly love. Although some of it I do.

Josh 51:25
I'm guessing it's his rap music.

Scott Benner 51:26
It's a listening to music that so we drive to so much baseball together. I am because we are the kind of parents which if you listen to this episode, you'll see like we don't stifle the kids really. So, you know, when it's his turn to put music on. And it's, you know, pop smoke Meek Mill Davies, like stuff like that. I just, I tried to find something that I like, it turns out the things about it, I like he doesn't even know I'm like, I like the guy's like, the guy's got, like a really great resonance in his voice. And he's like, What are you listening to?

Josh 51:56
I wonder what microphone he's using.

Scott Benner 51:59
I just, I'm like, It's comforting. Like, I show me a picture of him. He's like, why do you need to see him? I was like, is he his biggest his voice and he's like, who cares? Like, alright, but you know, once he's off at school for a while, if I find myself missing him, I put his music on. i I'll go through, like rolls through like old Metallica. And stuff like that. I'm not a person who puts on music, like from when I was a kid too much. Like, I remember how much I love Guns and Roses, but I don't really need to hear it anymore. Feeling if I get I'm trying to calm down, I listened to the cello. And I've started to like more 70s I mean, which stuff that I would have thought was oldies when I was in the 90s. But now you realize how good it was like Crosby, Stills and Nash and stuff like that, like he didn't, you know, I mean, like so there's always a place in my heart for Crosby, Stills and Nash and Ted Stevens and Paul Simon and Neil Diamond, all that sort of stuff. So I'm so glad that radio is not really a thing anymore, because the last time it was, they were playing Guns and Roses on on an oldies station one time and I was like, Alright, I'm done paying attention to the lineage of this now I'm like, I do not need to feel badly about this. But yeah, just that all makes sense to me. You know?

Josh 53:19
Slightly, not really off topic. What genre do you think ABA is? What would you consider ABA?

Scott Benner 53:27
I mean, ABA is pop, isn't it?

Josh 53:31
My wife and I were discussing it so I didn't really know. I didn't know what I was kind of putting it into where did you have it? You know, in between like a disco rock sort of thing?

Scott Benner 53:45
Yeah, I guess that it had that flavor. So if you just Google it, it comes up rock rock pop. I don't think I would not see it as rock

Josh 53:57
by sounds like the categories that BestBuy used to put their CDs in

Scott Benner 54:01
exactly. There's a picture of them on stage here in these white robes and the be honest they look like a Christian band it this is this they really do look like they're gonna tell me the I should listen to Jesus in this in this one here. And then they get a little more hippyish at times in their photos. It's interesting. I only know the one song so although I have seen the musical. I can't believe I just said that. What was it called? Was that Mamma Mia? No, yeah, no, there was an album. Oh god.

Josh 54:44
I'm gonna Nia is a musical bound think it was

Scott Benner 54:47
it wasn't the album. They did like a stage thing was just Abba music. I really don't remember my wife took me to it. I will be 100% honest about that. And Oh my god, that, wow, here's a weird memory. Okay, I don't want to bum everybody out, but you're on so it's okay. It was. We had tickets. And the night before my father passed away. I spent the whole night in the hospital, I came home, I got a few hours of sleep, woke up, gotten a shower, got on a train and went to Manhattan. And I remember sitting in that musical like, numb and exhausted. And but I didn't want to let people down that you know, we had this thing and we went anyway. Maybe that's why I didn't enjoy it. I guess now that I'm looking back,

Josh 55:40
certainly can have some repercussions of what you what you're doing around such a dramatic time. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:47
I couldn't even believe that. I. I didn't remember that until just now. Actually, I wish I could remember the name of that damn musical because it wasn't Mamma Mia. Was it? Dammit, I'll find out. But anyway, musics incredibly helpful at different times. And you don't like see, I actually like to hear people talk when I'm upset, though. But but I like to hear them talk about something that has nothing to do with me.

Josh 56:13
Now, I think I probably am usually the same way. And then that's, I mean, I love podcasts. But something I don't know, something just kind of shook me out of that. Yeah. That, I guess, that need at that time. And just needing to just needing to be more ever present.

Scott Benner 56:38
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. You don't want to disappear too, right? Like you don't wanna you don't want to have a situation where you find yourself, like retracting from the family either. Which that would be, I guess, kind of understandable. And at the same time, it's hard to reverse once you start doing stuff like that. So I guess he got to kind of stay in it. I mean, the truth of it is to like to unpack it a different way. You've had diabetes for 30 years. You okay.

Josh 57:12
Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Scott Benner 57:13
Yeah. I mean, honestly, you're okay. Right. Like, get up and work. You have a car, you listen to music, you buy food you eat like, the truth is, is it's a disappointment, and shaking of expectation, but it's not really the end of anything. It's just the change of, of, from what you expected to what you got, like, that's how I was thinking about my son the other day, I was like, If this ends up, like sidelining him for a long time or stopping him. He's still a really bright, happy, energetic person who's smart and like, it's, it's gonna be this one little aspect of his life that's going to be different. And I I'm not minimizing diabetes, certainly I'm as impacted by it as anybody else in my situation. But it mean, Arden got up this morning, she got in the shower, she got dressed, she went off to her high school to do some community service and, and she'll spend four or five hours there by herself. She come home. I haven't heard from her. I mean, I could pick up her thing right now. And I don't even know what her blood sugar is. But I'll look for you. It's like 97 It hasn't been over 110 In the last three hours. She's been out of here for quite some time. I don't know if she's eaten, or she hasn't eaten today.

Josh 58:41
Her life she's still doing the the Why am I blanking on it? I'm doing it as

Scott Benner 58:48
well. You want to say loop? Yeah,

Josh 58:50
she's still doing the loop.

Scott Benner 58:51
She is doing the loop right now. I am. We're, I think we're so close to Omnipod five right now, but I don't know. And so we are going to try it. And we're very hopeful for it. Just because it's less, you know, it's more off the shelf and less, you know, DIY for certain. But, uh, yeah, I mean, that's what she's doing. It's, you know, I had a long meeting yesterday, I was out of the house for four hours in the afternoon. I met them for dinner when I got there. She was having nachos like you know, they had water ice afterwards. I mean, her life doesn't look me with the exception of picking up her cell phone and pushing a couple of buttons last night. I mean, I don't see that her life looks any different than anybody else's.

Josh 59:36
And when you said he said something where it doesn't you know take anything

away you know that that's that's where that that that thing of pulling me back to when I was six and and stuff like that happens because It's been six weeks since my son has had a happy meal. Right? You know, and, and it's just those, those double Whammies, my, my, my seven year old who, you know, might guess I'm not saying she started all this, but her diagnosis started all this she's she's living the repercussions of, you know, a family member with celiac. So her diet, I'm changing some too, and just kind of learning how to appropriately deal with my own guilt of, of, you know, going and, and wanting raising gains or something like that, you know, and, and my son not being able to. So it's been those there has been a lot of day to day changes that we still have not we still haven't figured out. Let me I'm really hopeful that there might be people that might listen to this out there that can help. Because I we've talked to people or adults with celiac, but it has never been how we I haven't really found anything good about how to deal with I guess what I was just kind of talking about some of that guilt in some of the, you know, the day to day changes.

Scott Benner 1:01:32
So if if, excuse me one second. If I was you, I put myself in your shoes now. And I have all your credentials and your backgrounds, and now you're the people you help. Explain to me why. Explain to me why I can't just say to you, Josh, stop it. I know that's a weird thing. Because I understand bigger, why can't Why can't I just say, Josh, stop? isn't your fault? You didn't do this? This is the situation? Are you telling me the worst thing in the world as your kids not going to eat McDonald's? That might even be a good thing. Like, like, like, you know what I mean? Like, like, let's move on man. Like, is there something wrong with that approach?

Josh 1:02:21
That approach is a is much more of a confrontational approach. It's a reality therapy approach. It's what? I hate saying his name, but it's what Dr. Phil does. You know, and, and there's there There isn't anything wrong with that, especially if when if if someone is is stuck, you know, if it's been a long time, and they're stuck at that, yeah, that feeling that, uh, that there hasn't been any sort of change any sort of, of movement in, in, you know, their behaviors, their, their, their emotions.

Scott Benner 1:03:02
So how long? How long? Would you as a professional, how long would you say if you were treating yourself? I know, that's not how this works. But if you were seeing somebody with your situation, how long do you let them stay in this situation before you say hey, it's time to start moving?

Josh 1:03:17
That's a really good question. And I was, as I was talking, I was asking myself that because that's like, man, that's the next that's the next thing to say. Okay, how long is is is too long? And I wonder, you know, I think a very clear example would be that, if if I noticed that minor my wife's mental health is, is preventing the kids from from moving on. You know, we, we definitely, I feel like are taking it harder than doing the kids but we, you know, again, are having that longer perspective.

So, if, if we are if we're really dragging the house down, I would say that, it can be, it can be too long, but certainly like, you know,

I can tell you though, with with with depression, that when when, when individual symptoms start becoming even more of an issue, you know, like, for me, it really became sleep. Sleep has been an issue lately that you know that okay, your body is not going to be I can't handle this much longer. I need to find I need to find a way out emotionally. Yeah, so that's why I listen to corn. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:04:57
no, I listen. I I don't think I mean, I guess there's to contextualize it in a completely farcical way. In every zombie show. The people who stand around and go, Oh my God, they're eating Katy get eaten, too. So it's the people who go up Katie's down, let's get the hell out of here. Those people are always okay. Like the people who move forward, don't stop. And don't get me wrong. Eventually, in later episodes, they're very sad. But it's just like, maybe this is a moment in your life that will feel differently in a year. Like, I think from listening to you, and from understanding your background. And from having spoken to you in the past, you have a firm grasp of what has happened here, you understand the impacts of it for your son, for your wife, for your children, for yourself. So cognitively, you have it. Now staying here is just torture after that, and are you making that decision? To feel badly a little longer? Because it feels like it's your fault? And is it because you're connecting? Having diabetes 30 years ago with having it today, which it's not like but then all of a sudden becomes like because of the celiac diagnosis? Except I don't know, man, like what are you missing with a celiac diagnosis really, like bread and pasta and like, I don't know, like, I've never looked into it. I do know, by the way for people listening that episode. 439 is part of the how we eat series, which is about being gluten free. I just want to throw a plug in there for the podcast. I'm actually really proud of the how you eat series. There's God, maybe 10 of them now. Plant based gluten free low carb, vegan carnivore flexitarian intermittent fasting keto FODMAP people who eat the Bernstein way. I'm enjoying talking to people about how they eat. But what I can tell you about every one of them is that every one of them is doing something that is in some way restrictive. And no one feels that way. Yeah. And that's, that's one of the things that's been the most fascinating about talking to them, is that from an outsider's perspective, or from a perspective of someone whose son was just diagnosed, it feels like it's all about the things you can't have. But the people who've been living it for a while, don't feel that way. And that would make me feel better. If I was you.

Josh 1:07:32
I wonder, you know, going back to control and choice, you know, and I don't know, I have not listened to those episodes. I know that my wife Listen, went back and listened to particular episodes and annuals in your, in your series of, of different things that might be helpful for the celiac diagnosis, but I want you know, I would like for I would like for me and my son, because there's, there's times just kind of seeing him to have, you know, that option.

Scott Benner 1:08:10
Does he look like you Josh?

Josh 1:08:13
Because my son look like me. Yeah, I'm a little I would say so. I think my mom would probably say so in some ways.

Scott Benner 1:08:21
I wonder if that bothers you, too. I feel like you're looking at yourself sometimes.

Josh 1:08:26
He he likes Legos. He like he likes video games. I don't think he likes corn. I don't think he's listened to it. But you know, he we are very, very similar, you know, and also it's it's one of those things where it's like you know, where the where the two boys here.

Scott Benner 1:08:47
So if your son came to you in a moment of clarity and maturity and said Dad, are you happy with your life, you will start

Josh 1:08:54
crying immediately because he asked me that.

Scott Benner 1:08:59
But what's the forget? I'll ask you overall, like, is it a good life?

Josh 1:09:12
It's been

Scott Benner 1:09:15
Yes. Okay.

Josh 1:09:17
But I don't know how long it took me to answer that question. Right and how many seconds that was because I've been in a bubble. You know, I've been I've been very, I've been very deep in that in that spiral.

For for a while. And in terms of depression, I think it's interesting that you kind of think of you know what hopeless means I have no hope. But sometimes it feels like there can be something beyond even hopeless where it's just where I guess it's almost like a like a, like a giving up any sort of idea that I have control over good or bad outcomes that are that are happening to me and my family,

Scott Benner 1:10:24
you don't have any control over it at all. It's all random. It's nothing, miss. It's just what it is. And if you are, if you're listening, I'm on a completely different level. I, you know, in the similar situation, I was telling my son last night, there were two Hallmark moments where I said, I think I should have said this too. And maybe this wouldn't have happened. And he's like, nod, but he was gonna happen anyway. And he started laying out why he thought it would happen anyway. And I think he was right. And yet, my clinician was to say, Yeah, but what if I would, and then I'm what effing. And then I'm like, this is just ridiculous. It's, it's, it's meaningless. It's fruitless. You'll never if I can't go backwards, like, I cannot go backwards. I cannot take him backwards. All I have is what we do next. And I'm either going to take him in the back, I told my wife, I said, while we were sitting there waiting for the doctor to read the MRI. I thought to myself, I know what kind of parent I am. But let me just double check in a second. Am I about to be very upset? Or am I going to be stoic and pick the best path? Because there was like a child inside of me that wanted to just cry, and just just give up? Like, he's like, just give up? You know what I mean? Like, there was a voice in my head, it was like, This is it. Get Scott, like, just let's cry and wallow and tell the kid how sorry we are, and tell him his life's changed, and it sucks. And let's really dive into it together. And then when the doctor said it, I put my hand on his shoulder, and I was like, we're gonna work this out. Like, we'll do everything we can. We'll do everything that medicine understands. And we will get you as far along this process as we can. But I wanted to just be like, Man, I'm sorry, like, and just fall into it. But I don't think we lost yet. And I don't know that. I don't know that short of dying, there is any losing. Right. There's just recalibrations and changing paths and living with the zombies. And you know, just just keep going like because there's no alternative, Josh, like, there's literally no alternative, like you're either going to like, look yourself in the mirror one day and be like, Dude, that's it man pulled together, let's go, right, or you're going to be in this space. And the longer you stay in the space, the more likely it is that your son will find this space. So if you can't do it for yourself, fake it till you make it and do it for him. Like, I don't know that. I don't know that I've ever thought about it this much before. But like that's how it occurs to me in the moment. And if that makes any sense. Also, your Texas came out a minute ago. You refer to the podcast episodes as yours. I never heard it out of you before that was the first time I heard it.

Josh 1:13:31
Yeah, yeah, my my phone now doesn't care if I type out y'all or not it. lets me do it. So I I'm in that fake it till I make it zone. Yeah. But um, you know, I was I was actually is I was realizing this the other day that when when I was younger with type one diabetes, we did not have the continuous glucose monitor. And I did not want to check my blood sugar. But you know, I kind of taught myself or, or was tight in some ways to continuously monitor how I felt. Do I feel low? Do I feel high? Am I going low? Am I going high? What do I think? What's happening to try to stave off any, you know, ups and downs that probably came, you know, even even more so, when doing carb counting but still without the continuous glucose monitor. And so I think unfortunately, that has continued on in my life when instead of instead of knowing how I'm I'm feeling I can just look and say okay, see what my blood sugar is. I'm 157 I'm actually coming and down a little bit. And And okay, so I'm still having I'm still doing that. How do I feel? How do I feel? How do I feel? How do I feel? And, you know, yeah. And I kind of realized it's it. It's it developed this anxiety feedback loop. Yeah. And before and you know, I want I want to shut it off. But it's, it made me realize that like, you know, in the morning you know, depending on how I slept, I can I feel energized Let's go, I've got these things to do. I'm going to take care of the day. And then you know, around 11 I you know, if I'm checking in myself again, it's like, oh, man, I'm not really feeling that good. Okay, maybe I need something to eat. Maybe I'm, you know, have too much caffeine. My me. I'm not proud of caffeine, all these sorts of things are going through my head to try to I guess, maybe fake it till I make it.

Scott Benner 1:16:06
You're not using an algorithm though. Right? I am. You are using a loop. Using control kill.

Josh 1:16:15
Loop. Okay. loop with the auto Bolus.

Scott Benner 1:16:20
Your children using the same thing?

Josh 1:16:22
No, no, none of them want the want the pump on?

Scott Benner 1:16:27
Okay. So they're just doing MDI those? Yeah. Okay.

Josh 1:16:31
I would love to I would love to give them the pump. But then if want to get mad

Scott Benner 1:16:36
one day, they'll ask about it. Yeah.

Josh 1:16:40
Yeah, so that takes a lot off of me until like, you know, the the cannulas, cannula or whatever, you know, comes out or whatever and then I have to come back to my own. My own health but like, also the I don't remember I was gonna go with that feedback. It just it. It keeps me I don't know what it it kind of keeps me in that probably in that what we were talking about that.

Scott Benner 1:17:19
You're in, like an anxiety feedback loop where you're like, I wonder if I'm okay, I am okay. Oh, good. I wonder if I'm okay. I'm not okay. Oh, good. But are you really but, but let's just talk like, like, there's by the way, before I ask you this question. I have thought for the last 15 minutes. I wonder how a job change would impact your personal life. I wonder if you're just too involved in how people feel.

Josh 1:17:44
I would love to make furniture and bass guitars and work with wood. For the for the rest of my life. I say that but then I'd probably get annoyed and you know, a little bit too much of a perfectionist and wouldn't be able to produce anything or something.

Scott Benner 1:18:05
You know, I mean, listen there. I know men who in in their entire life haven't had as many deep thoughts as you had in the last 25 minutes. And they just move along like a train. You know what I mean? I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying like maybe like you don't have an escape because then when you go to work you're going to delve into somebody else's thoughts and issues and then you see I'm assuming you see parallels between your personal life and how other people feel and you probably mix and match and and hold things up for assessment and there's no downtime then for that it would seem to me but anyway What the hell was my question? That was stupid of me to cut myself off everything you just said about the anxiety the feedback Oh, okay yeah I'm sorry. What's your anyone say

Josh 1:19:00
You know, that's something I again, because of of our lovely health insurance conundrum, I keep on missing this gap of getting my I have to order my labs to quest diagnostic rather than do it at the hospital and then I keep messing up and not getting it done. You know, honestly, because I value the the Dexcom information even more. Yeah. And let me pull up my clear what

Scott Benner 1:19:29
is that what is clarity? And clarity is not going to show you anyone see there? They call it something else. Now let's say yeah, I forget what it is.

Josh 1:19:50
Do GMI

Scott Benner 1:19:52
whatever that stands for cost management indicator

Josh 1:19:55
is a 6.9. Okay. The average glucose 148 standard daeviation 57, which is a little bit on the high side, but

Scott Benner 1:20:03
yeah, so do you are you forget the numbers? Are you happy with the numbers? Or do you want them to be different?

Josh 1:20:10
I'm happy with my numbers. Okay. I'm happy with my children's numbers too for the most part. Yeah, we have this really late night slash early morning rise that we are trying to, to figure out with my daughter, but the thing with their their numbers is that it's constantly changing, like we talked about with honeymooning. You know, I, I fluctuate, you know, at a plus or minus three, with their, with their receiver, you know, kind of making adjustments as we go.

Scott Benner 1:20:42
Well, well, I, my point of asking was, is if you're comfortable with where you are, why do you care about? Like, why is it an anxious thing? Like it's going the way you want to go? Like, where's the anxiety from? You see, I'm saying like, if I wanted to paint a wall blue, and I was painting it, it was blue, I wouldn't be like, Oh, my God, I'm very worried about the painting of this wall. It's working out exactly the way I thought it was going to. So your diabetes is going exactly how you thought it was going to end exactly how you want it to go. Why was it why is it upsetting to you? Or is that just your general state? And it applies to everything?

Josh 1:21:24
I think it's, I think, in the past two months, it's been the celiac part of it.

Scott Benner 1:21:32
Okay, so you're having like, you're literally having like trauma from your childhood? Around the eating, because it's been brought up to you because of your son's eating change? Yeah, yeah. All right. I don't need to charge you a copay for to make this legal die.

Josh 1:21:53
But do you? I mean, if we tried to make it legal, I think there'd be issues in terms of the the cross state boundaries. And

Scott Benner 1:21:59
I also barely got out of high school. So there might be some issues with like, regulatory commissions and things like that, too. But that's not the point. The point is that, do you think you don't need me to tell you that like, you know, this already, right. Okay. Right. So then the question is, and you haven't been listening recently, but I have a couple of different like, people coming on with with similar backgrounds to yours. And we're just talking things through diabetes wise. And one of them, Erica, I said to her, you know, we always do this stuff, right, like magazines put out lists of like, the top 10 things you're supposed to look for. And you know, we get together on podcasts and tell people what the, you know, what they should be concerned about what they should change. And so but in the end, like, can anybody really take that advice? Like, is that is that the secret part of all this, that we don't say out loud, that it doesn't matter if you know, that you're being controlled by a force that's bigger than your knowledge? Like, if you can't figure it out? Who the Who the hell can? And like, what do you say to people in this situation? Like, if you were if you were helping you, like, forget, it's you for a second, like, what do you do next?

Josh 1:23:23
There is part part of the grief process is acceptance. Right? And grief doesn't necessarily have to be someone dying. It can literally be losing your ability to go and have happy meal. Yeah, I'm using that as an example. A funny example, because called a happy meal, I didn't think about that part. So, by the

Scott Benner 1:23:55
way, if he eats it, it'll be an unhappy meal because I'm in the bathroom.

Josh 1:24:00
I didn't even add that but that's the other thing is like, he he doesn't have symptoms.

Scott Benner 1:24:04
He doesn't have you eating gluten free thing. Right?

Josh 1:24:07
So we're eating gluten free because there was there was damage to his intestine, okay, okay. In the vacancy in the endoscopy? They did they did the biopsy. But he he doesn't have at least strong you know, sick symptoms, you know? And so, instead of being like, okay, stop eating pizza and you're gonna feel better. It's just like, Nah, stop eating pizza.

Scott Benner 1:24:35
So nothing's changed for him.

Josh 1:24:37
Correct. Besides him not being able to have pizza meals. There's there's a whole bunch more, you know, like just going to Olive Garden. Granted, we don't, we wouldn't go to Olive Garden because of COVID but like getting Olive Garden to go, right? There's just things like that where How to we found our stance? But the question is like, how do you even weigh? Like? The idea of okay, my son's at a birthday party? He doesn't even have celiac symptoms. Can you just have the cake? Oh, but wait, my adult perspective is thinking, Okay, well that could put, you know, damage on his intestine, which, you know, maybe it takes him up from a 30% to a 31% chance of colon cancer at some point, you know, just

Scott Benner 1:25:32
birthday parties, this kid going to? Man not

Josh 1:25:35
not very many No, no, I should think I should think of another example.

Scott Benner 1:25:40
Like this kid's birthday party every other day. Just let them have the cake.

Josh 1:25:48
I think that's, that's what our GI doctor would also say, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:25:53
I don't want to tell you, I don't have any other thoughts that aren't fairly common sense. I don't know a lot about anything. So. I mean, that just makes sense to me. I, I would just try that if I wish you I, you know, like, I mean, listen, if if the kids 65 years old one day and ends up with some, you know, colon cells growing in a stomach, and he gets something I'm like, that's really going to be terrible. But I only got to kind of something that happens to him now. And I hate to say this, but something's got to kill him. So you know, like, like, Why ruin everything to avoid something that you might not be able to avoid anyway? Or that might not even be a concern? Because that's the I have the thing. I don't even know what it's, I don't know what it's called. I got an endoscopy. And it's this thing that can be pre cancerous, but isn't necessarily and if you know, I'll go back every three or five years or something. And if they find the cells, they'll just like, scrape them out and keep going. And, like that kind of thing. Like, I don't know, man, like, what am I gonna do? You know what I mean? Like, like, something's got to give somewhere, you can't, you can't be fortifying every direction, including up down and coming from the center constantly. Because you guys might as well just go in the garage and start the car and, you know, go to sleep like, what's the point of this? Unless you've got a mad you have an Eevee? And like, three hours later, you're like, it's just not working? I would feel I would feel really dumb. Yeah, you'd be like, God, I'm I'm distraught and stupid. What a man and

Josh 1:27:37
and I just ruined the environment, a little bit more

Scott Benner 1:27:41
electricity. Anyway, I don't think we should joke about suicide. Just want to say that right now.

Josh 1:27:48
I have a mental health condition choking him. So

Scott Benner 1:27:51
it's probably not the right thing to do is what I'm getting at. But I'm just I'm just trying to make the bigger like argument that it's possible that if you ship me, your kids, they'll have a view on them. No, I don't want my own. That's not that. Let's not be ridiculous. Okay, I just can I tell you that as we were logging onto this, my son's tuition, hit my credit card, and it popped up on my screen. So I put my son's tuition through a credit card, so I get points. So it's not like I'm not charging his college education. But I'm doing it so that I can, you know, so I get points. And it popped up. And I was mortified. Because, oh, oh, god knows, like, right before you came on. I was like, Oh, my God, this is horrible. I don't want your children I barely want my own. Don't say that. What I'm saying is, is unless your kids a big dummy, you don't think he's gonna need any secondary education after high school and then maybe handle him for a little while, but you got to send diabetes supplies. But But my point is, you know what, I've been thinking while we were talking. Listen to one podcast today, listen to art and talk about diabetes. I think it will be so incredibly 180 degrees from how you think about it, that it might help you a little bit. She doesn't think about it at all. Like ever. It's almost stunning to hear her talk about it. And I wondered if you took me those two kids and shipped them up here and lived here for a month? If you would notice that? I don't feel the way you feel. I'm a little I can be dispassionate. They're not my children. But I also I don't think about diabetes the way you do. And I understand why you think about it the way you do, like, don't get me wrong. You have a history with it. That I don't have, but also it's a personal history. I don't not have a history when you think of my friend Mike I, I literally know that diabetes can kill you if you don't manage it well. And so I have that in the back of my head constantly, and I still don't feel the way you feel. And so you could just I don't know, like maybe you can't like, don't get me wrong, but but if it's within you, you could just shift your paradigm, you could just be like, This isn't how we think about this anymore, we're gonna do this, you're gonna have a cupcake at a birthday party. And we're not going to worry about that ever. Once ever again, that is just going to happen. Some things are beyond control. And I'm going to be happy with my a one, see where it is. And I'm not going to spend every day going, how do I feel? How do I feel? How do I feel? Because you're running an algorithm, just set alarms, set alarms on your Dexcom. And if the alarms aren't going off, promise yourself not to think about your diabetes. I mean, that to me, like I don't know if that's doable, but that's the only answer. If it's gonna work. That's the only answer. Because you're not gonna. You're not gonna talk yourself out of this. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, there's always going to be a reason to sit next year kid in office and cry and go, man, we got screwed. We really got screwed. Like, Josh, I don't know how meaningful this is the other people, but my son was throwing a baseball 92 miles an hour off the mound, five weeks before this happened. And now, he's not supposed to move his arm in a forward motion for the next eight weeks. So I don't know if it's gonna, it might work out fine. And it might not be a big deal to people who don't understand. But my kid's been playing baseball, since he's foreign. He's 21. And it's a big chunk of his life. If it goes away, he'll have to meaningfully redefine who he is.

Josh 1:31:35
And it's it's like it. It is him not having a happy meal again.

Scott Benner 1:31:42
Oh, yes. Except, except if your son ate Happy Meals, 24 hours. And when he did well, let's say,

Josh 1:31:49
you know, like, in a way, celiac, if you if you think about the foods that we have, I know that there's lots of gluten free foods out there. But if you also get into the nitty gritty, you know, with restaurants and with how gluten free foods are packaged, there's the contaminant levels and stuff like that, but that's much more than the nitty gritty. And I know there's lots of gluten free stuff, but my we live in a a wheat based society. You know, it would be an interesting idea if, you know, if we went back, you know, 1000s of years and kind of encouraged rice more than we there's so much stuff,

Scott Benner 1:32:37
or you can just put him in front of a deer and let him not like a weed man. Yeah. Listen, I'm going to give you some advice from a classic film, The Lost World Jurassic Park, where they said don't go into the long grass. So you got to stay out of the weeds a little bit. Yeah, you know, stay out of the wheat. Yeah, stay out of the wheat because the kid doesn't even have any symptoms. So, I mean, you found out because he has diabetes and because people tested which I don't think is bad information to have, but I don't know that it feels actionable at this moment. You know, like, I mean, if you want to avoid, listen, if I'm you, based on my experiences, I'd avoid processed foods. Listen, forget Josh. All you listening. You want some great advice? Eat as few processed foods as you can. Try not to take in too many processed oils either. Your life will be better. That that's all like you're you're focused on one thing cupcake, it's what it's not the food. Like if you if your son never ate a cupcake in his entire life, it wouldn't matter and he wouldn't care it's it's your it's the meaning that you're attaching to the food wow, I didn't realize this. This should be a whole episode about food. It's the meaning that you're attaching to the food that's the problem not the food. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's It's meaningless like it's literally just a it's a false idol like the cupcakes a false idol for you. It's something that you're you're ascribing more meaning to than it exists. And I mean, people will be like, oh, there's great celiac you know, friendly cupcakes and I'm sure there is by the way, but who cares? Like never eat a cupcake again? Like what is it? Like why would that matter even you're not thinking about this right? You need more context you need a zombie chase you you really do what you need something where you're just like, oh, hell I don't give let's get out of here.

Josh 1:34:37
You're right yeah, um, it but it's, it's tell a seminar that I guess a three year old and a 10 year old. Never eat a cupcake

Scott Benner 1:34:48
again. I tell you something, let me write down the time here because off to go back and delete this out. I wouldn't tell him I grew up in this 70s My father never one time explained anything that was happening to me. He didn't even he didn't even care how I felt the tiniest little bit. Is that right? It is not. But it's just it's also not wrong. Sometimes make some time. He's 10 Man, stand in front of them and be like, Listen, brother. No more sucks, right? We're not doing it. Three weeks from now, you will never remember. Let it go. We're out here. Let's move on to something else and get out of here. And don't ever Don't tell him anything. Like I this is probably completely backwards to your training. But oh, yeah.

Josh 1:35:32
Oh, yeah, totally. And to all the in, in antithetical to our parenting style, and who he is as a person. I can do that to my three year old. Yeah, cuz she's not gonna remember. She's not gonna remember good times and gluten. So, yeah, well, while

Scott Benner 1:35:49
I was lamenting with my wife the other night about how I worry about everybody. I told her, I was like, I'm less. It's funny. I'm less worried about the children than I am about you. And she goes, why? And I said, Well, I met you as an adult, I never got to tell you what to do. And she's like, what I'm like, so I backed up. And I said, parenting to me is a little bit like bumping and nudging with insulin, like so. To me, it's you, you have control of people when they're younger. And so you can point them in a general direction, like, and you can pick the direction, this is a good direction for them. And then if they start veering away, you can kind of just like, stand behind them, and just kind of nudge him back a little bit. Oh, head back that way. Don't talk to Katie, I think she's gonna do heroin one day, like, you know what I mean, like a little bit of that stuff, and you just kind of Oh, not that boy over here, you know, and you just you do that a little bit a little nudging a little bumping, and you don't do it like that. It's not out loud. It's sort of, you know, I mean, if you don't see yourself a little bit like a puppet master is apparent. I don't I don't know what you're thinking. But you've got a little bit of a little bit of control over what they think about what they care about. And so you nudge them around. And I said, with you, I said, there are things like not that this wouldn't be true of everybody, or that somebody couldn't do it for me. But I said for my wife, I was like, there have been times, where if you would have taken my advice, you'd be better off now. And she goes, Well, I agree with that. I was like, okay, cool. I was like, but I can't help you. Like, you're beyond help. Like you're an adult, you have your own thoughts, and I can't bump and nudge you. Every time I bump you you swap my handle, I guess your son's only 10. Man. You could just point him in the right direction and be like, This is it man, this is the world in front of us like that other stuff over there. That doesn't exist. So we're not going to look at that anymore. And before you know it, he wouldn't care. But he wouldn't think about it anymore. I just don't think there's people on the walking dead or missing cupcakes. As I'm saying. And I know that's a completely made up thing. But it's it's also if I took you guys out in the woods and left you there and you couldn't find your way back. I mean, you'd have about 1000 thoughts before. Can you believe there's no cupcake today? Like and maybe the worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to

Josh 1:38:04
you. I guess these are the same boys that grew up playboys.

Scott Benner 1:38:07
Well, playboys and dinosaurs apparently. Listen, I gotta just ask you a question. How old are you?

Josh 1:38:16
36 about 3036.

Scott Benner 1:38:18
So you were 1620 years ago in 1981? No, 1991 Yeah, when I was like 10 years old, it was 1981. And the biggest mistake we ever made in my life. We found those 30 books in the in the woods, is I gave them to my dad. I was like, We found these and I don't think we should keep them. You know, after we left them, we gave them to him. And now I realized as an adult, he was probably like, ah, free nudie books. Cool. I don't know whatever happened to them. But apparently there were like, you know how kids drink in the woods? Hmm, I guess they I'm gonna have to write the time down again. Hold on a second. 33 I guess they off in the woods. I don't know. I never did. But I mean, I couldn't think of any other reason now. Looking back while they were there. Aren't you happy with the internet as a child?

Josh 1:39:25
That's, that's an interesting thought. I never really thought about that. I know. How pregnant is this? But my friend said he had a naked picnic in the woods once with somebody not by himself. So I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:39:39
We'd like a friend or like a. It was a female friend a sexual acquaintance. Okay.

Josh 1:39:46
I don't I don't think anything happened. They just closed off and ate lunch? I guess so. I don't I don't know. Honestly, I

Scott Benner 1:39:53
don't think it was gluten free. I want your son to be able to do it. Sure. Oh my god. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Josh 1:40:07
I was gonna I was gonna start thinking about like the price of gluten free food and, and all that sort

Scott Benner 1:40:12
of stuff so expensive. My goodness. And when I had to eat gluten free for a month so the doctors could check something. I gained weight too. Because but this was different. Because I in my mind, I commingled gluten free with healthier. Yeah, I was like I can eat as much as I wanted this is gluten free. Turns out that was not the that's not the case.

Josh 1:40:35
It certainly can be because it's interesting. So it really kind of pushes things out to the edges because gluten free can be met Mediterranean style, fresh vegetable, you know, sort of food. Or it could be a super processed foods that Oh, you have to add this and this and this weird thing and this weird thing to make it chewy, kind of like there would be gluten in it. Right? So

Scott Benner 1:41:03
yeah, do Jake I just want you to get the kid a bunch of barbecue and be done with it.

Josh 1:41:08
I mean, we certainly do that. And and things would be a whole heck of a lot easier if we lived in Austin. We're about an hour away from Austin. Because, you know, Austin is the land of trendy eating.

Scott Benner 1:41:23
Yeah, no kidding. There would be more options, I guess. Well, how about this? I thought of this earlier. Like, maybe you guys should learn to cook.

Josh 1:41:32
I've got great beans and rice going right now. So it's my wife's recipe.

Scott Benner 1:41:36
Nice. Yeah, I mean, I just listen, man. Here's the truth. Is is gonna be okay. And if it's not, you're stopping it from being okay. That's it. I don't see any I don't see any way around. That being the truth. Do you?

Josh 1:41:53
I mean, it's going to be okay. Because it has to be okay.

Scott Benner 1:41:55
Yeah. Right. It is just going to be okay. I listen. I I'm I'm adopted. Someone had me and gave me a way. And then I was adopted by people who got divorced. And my father left on my 13th birthday. We lived on $70 worth of food a week. It was me and my two brothers. And my mom. At one point it got so bad the State offered to take her children off her hands for her. She declined. I thought I was going to live you've heard me talk a lot, right? I thought I was going to work in a sheetmetal shop my entire life. Like that was no one educated me. No one had any hope. For me. The idea was go to school because the state makes you and then go get a job with your uncle and pay attention. And maybe I'll let you run a machine one day and pay us some extra money. Like that was my whole life. That was the entirety of my expectations. I had to teach myself to drive when I was 13 because we couldn't go get food. And my mom didn't drive. So we took in a border to make an extra $50 a month. And this guy had a car which I am certain was not registered or insured that I taught myself how to drive when I was 13. I lived through my mom deciding one night that drinking would be her way out. And I stopped her. My mom went bankrupt when I was a kid and I facilitated the bankruptcy. I was like 15 years old. I never thought I would have two nickels to rub together. Never. And then I met a girl who saw me and not my situation. And that allowed me to dream about more stuff. And then today, as crazy as it sounds, because we've said a lot of stupid things on here. I make the most popular diabetes podcast in the world. And it helps so many people that if I told you how many people it helps, it would embarrass me. And if I look back on my life prior to that, how could I have expected any of this to happen? And the only thing I can tell you the only thing I can believe that got me from where I was to where I am, is that I wake up every day incredibly hopeful, even when is really, really going wrong. And there have been times in my life where it has been going really really wrong. And so I don't know another way where if my way helps anybody else. But to me, we're all running from zombies. And if you stopped to see what happened to Katie, it's gonna happen to you next. And they're very well maybe something better over the ridge. So you're either gonna die here or keep going might as well keep going. Got nothing else to do. That just to me like life feels like that. It just feels like walking forward. And sometimes you're, you know, you're walking into a field of flowers. And sometimes you walk into a, a bunch of weeds and you start thinking about the calorie counts of celiac items in the grocery store. And I just think that you can't stand still. Like, that's it. And you're such a smart, thoughtful person, like I am. In the two times that we've spoken, I have found myself equally, very much liking you, finding you incredibly affable, and smart and feeling. And then there's part of me that feels badly that you you're stuck in your own head. And that that's it, and you don't deserve to be felt badly for. Like, that isn't who you are. In my estimation, of course, a person has known you for three hours. But

Josh 1:45:57
I like the way that you just put in you know, I don't because I don't want I don't want people to feel you know, badly for me. And I don't I don't want to feel badly for me. So why would why would I feel badly for me if I didn't want people to feel badly for me? And I think that take away of that thinking about okay, how long is too long? To to sit and stew before the zombies get me? Which by the way, do you have something against Katie's? is like the third Katie. The name

Scott Benner 1:46:38
that popped up the first time and I just wanted consistency.

Josh 1:46:43
That's all and me too. Yeah, no. More of a more of like a chat or a cooper. They get eaten.

Scott Benner 1:46:51
Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't I don't like the pretty boys in the monster movies aren't aren't really my style. So I in my mind, by the way, Katie is in a tied up top. It's plaid and she's wearing cut off shorts, just so everybody knows where I'm at.

Josh 1:47:05
Gotcha. So, and just kind of, you know, sometimes that hope part where you like you said you, I would imagine that. You know, in the past 20 years, there's been mornings that you haven't you woke up, you've woken up without the hope that you're talking about. And I guess, remembering that there are days that feel like that. But keep the scales tipped towards hope. Yeah. towards towards thinking about, you know, that my son will have the, you know, the most popular something. diabetes and celiac podcast, right? Conjoined together, or something like that?

Scott Benner 1:47:57
Something? I mean, he's going to have something you don't I mean, listen, on those days, when I wake up, I think to myself, Yo, man, you gotta go. Like, it's time, like, you made babies. You promised that girl, like, go do it. You know, go do it right now. And I get up. I just don't, I don't know one other way. But I grew like, but my existence right now around diabetes, and you know, thyroid and these other issues that people in my family have my my iron thing, like all of that. Compared to how I lived when I was a child, this is a fairy tale. So I have something worse to imagine. And I wonder if you just don't have something worse to imagine. I feel like I do. Do you. But your thing is so connected to your kid though? Yeah. Like, it would be hard for me to like, this is gonna be an extreme thing. But like, you know, I have I'd have a hard time thinking that a Holocaust survivor would be held down by a celiac diagnosis. Yeah, like that kind of a feeling. They'd be like, you just can't have bread. But, like, they have context that I mean, I think of them as people who have contacts more than anybody really on the planet. But even as they are getting older, and there's fewer of them. But I mean, that's a thing. Like I said to somebody the other day, like how can we be a country of people who won World War Two. And so few decades later, be genuinely oppressed by a person we barely know, on Facebook saying something that may or may not be focused at us that we think is focused at us. Like how did that happen? Like how did we go from and I just think that it's it's, it's experiences and and what your what you know, is the bottom and when what you know is the bottom is that your iPhone battery drains faster than you wished it would. Then suddenly, you know someone on Facebook, it's like, I hate it when my friends are not supportive of me and you go, Oh God, I think she means me. She means me. I feel badly, I should call it like, like, I just go back to somebody who lived through the Depression. I was like, you know, your neighbor doesn't like you. And they be like, what? I don't care. No time for that. I'm considering eating a cat today. You don't I mean, like, that's just, we, we don't have that anymore. Our ceiling is so over our head with our expectations. And we don't know anything, nothing bad happens. And not that I'm not minimizing it. Celiac is terrible. diabetes is terrible. Thyroid is terrible. But there's a woman in the community right now that just found out she has brain cancer. And I bet she takes some celiac over that you don't mean and like, but being able to hear that and then making making that meaningful to you. That's the piece about mental health, that I have been fascinated by why I've been making this podcast the entire time, because you are not stopping yourself on purpose. I know that. And me explaining the common sense side of it is valueless to you, I know that tau is a very it's such a confusing problem, like, like anything to do with your brain and how it kind of gets in your own way. Sometimes it's an incredibly confusing problem. And I have nothing but like the greatest amount of empathy for people who are impacted by it in any way at all. I don't know if talking about it helps people or not, I really don't. But there's part of me that thinks that this is a an immense waste of time. And I don't like feeling that way.

Josh 1:51:55
I think. And it's definitely my profession. But I think talking about it is the is always at least the the start of, of helping the problem.

Scott Benner 1:52:09
Yeah, I hope so. I've just, I'm up to have interviewed, I think I've interviewed three people with bipolar disorder now and type one diabetes, or people who have been addicted to hard drugs, people who've been abused. I've gone through real, like real issues in their life. And you get to the end of those conversations, and just like, Where's the light here? You know? What is it that what is the best they can hope for and for you, like the best seems really great. It's the getting you to hope for part that seems like the impediment. But I mean, the best I can say to you, and maybe this will end up being backfiring is like you don't want to be the reason why your son feels like this one day. And that'll that'll crush him. Like, you look back and you see this feeling in him when he's 25. And you're going to blame yourself. And whether that's fair or not, you don't deserve to go through that. So I hope you can do something now that stops you from feeling that way in the future. You know, I don't know what my hope does for you. But I'm hopeful for you. So yeah, you know,

Josh 1:53:22
that's an that's a, I guess, a consistent standard that I tried to keep going, where I don't want to be the I don't want to be the hurdle that my kid has to jump over.

Scott Benner 1:53:39
Yeah. Me either. And I, I struggled for the first, probably 10 years of being a parent with like, my reactions to like how to handle things were so rooted in how my dad treated me. And I would stop myself but it was still like there all the time. Like, you know, you just like, you know, for the first couple of, you know, years like they did something wrong. Like in my mind, I was like smack them. That's the right thing to do. That's what I would have got somebody would have smacked me. And then I'm like, No, that's not right. But it still popped in my head. And I'm proud to tell you that there was a day where it stopped popping into my head. I was like, wow, I broke like I broke a circle. You know, I mean, I was really proud of myself. I was like I can't believe that's not it doesn't come to me anymore. Like I wasn't doing it but I am also not a person who's never like black their kid on the button. You know, like I've I've definitely done that and it was to the such lesser degree that it was done to me but just I think breaking those circles as possible. Just takes a lot of help like a lot of practice and you can't give up and it's also helpful if somebody there for you. Like if you're if you tell your wife to look for things and you know, say a code word when she sees you going down a path or something like that and like anything like that, you know, they can kind of because you're really just trying to reprogram your mind Right. What about that, um, I'm gonna let you go after this. We've been doing this forever. But what is that? I therapy that people keep telling me about?

Josh 1:55:08
EMDR Yeah, I'm motor desensitization something or other, it's for PTSD. Typically, I wonder if they've been trying to do research into other sorts of things where it really is kind of like that reprogramming your mind and, you know, finding ways of accessing. I guess that more internal automatic thoughts sort of part of your brain by using these eye movements to kind of go make you go from left brain derived brain? I think that's my understanding of it. I, I would love to have training on it, but it's expensive. And I don't I would not have any use for it in my current position. So. I don't know. But, but that's but retraining your mind, like you said, is, is you know, is kind of a key tenet of cognitive behavioral therapy is something that a lot of people have heard of, and just doing, you know, reframing those automatic thoughts, you know, today is not going to be a day, today is going to be an OK Day. And, and giving yourself reasons of why that is, you know, and, and making those reasons, more forthright than the reasons why it might be the day.

Scott Benner 1:56:42
Yeah, I gotcha. Well, listen, I love talking to you. I hope you have a ton of success. I hope you come back on a year from now and you're like Sky

Josh 1:56:52
is great. Let's make this a weekly thing. I mean, I'm getting a lot out of it. Yeah, no, no,

Scott Benner 1:56:58
I can't do this for you. I'm very busy. A lot going on. But I don't I don't. I don't not agree. Like I think the Talking is super healthy and, and important for people listening or for yourself even. And, you know, I'm glad you were willing to do this. You're very open minded. I know I say things that fly in the face of your professional training sometimes. And you're just so affable and, and lovely to talk to. So I appreciate your time.

Josh 1:57:28
I appreciate your time. Yeah, good

Scott Benner 1:57:30
luck with your kids, man. And, and everything else. I seriously, if you're if your wife like hits you in your sleep or something, just let her do it. It's probably you probably

Josh 1:57:40
our I'm gonna go hug my kids and apologize to my wife right now. Are you really thinking about it? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:57:46
yeah. I could use good, Josh. Not that you're, you're not here. But I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't want to have a naked picnic or anything like that. But I if you were here, I would definitely hug you when we were done.

Josh 1:57:59
Maybe, you know, maybe there's a neighbor over some, you know, that I could pick with? No, I was thinking just a hug. If you wanted to ask them to that you

Scott Benner 1:58:09
could Kelly's downstairs. I'll hug her. And she'll be like, Oh, God, what did you guys talk about? I actually have a neighbor who is and I don't want to use clinical terms and correctly but batshit crazy. It's no, it's a, I don't think hugging them would be a great idea

Josh 1:58:26
to get a BSc. It's not in the DSM maybe it should be

Scott Benner 1:58:31
at when I run out of diabetes, things to talk about one day, I will talk for an hour about the people who live across the street from my house. Let me just leave you with this teaser in case that ever does happen. 3am trimming the grass with kitchen chairs. That's all just let it let it resonate.

Josh 1:58:49
I'm not a horticulturist, or any sort of lawn care professional, but I can't imagine any reasons of being out in the line at 3am.

Scott Benner 1:58:57
I think and I don't mean to make light of it, honestly. But I think that might be something we're quieting some voices or something's going on. But they've done so many, like Addams Family level things since I've lived here that it's actually not funny. If I made them a character in a sitcom. You'd be like, Oh, it's over the top. They overrode that. And I wouldn't have to. I wouldn't have to gild the lily at all. telling them stories and you just be like, That's not believable. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, I'll stop this recording. And I'll tell you something that will make you laugh before you go. Okay. Thank you for doing.

First, a huge thanks to Josh for him. First, a huge thanks to Josh for coming back on the show and continuing to tell his story. Again, so bravely and honestly, I really appreciate it. Thank you, Josh. Thanks also to Dexcom makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor, go to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box to learn more get started, or to get your hands on that Hello Dexcom kit that gives you a free 10 day trial of the Dexcom G six go find out if you're eligible. And to learn more about the Omni pod dash and to see if you're eligible for that 30 day trial, go to omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. I'm going to run out of music. I'll be ready. I just did it. Why don't I just talk right over now I feel silly. Don't forget also to learn more about on the pod five, which was just cleared by the FDA the other day. To learn more about it right to the to find out more about on the pods. Newest system, their automated delivery system. They call it an AI D automated insulin delivery. I mean, it's it's magical, and you should go check it out. Episode 620. We talk about it front to back top to bottom, you're going to understand everything about it when you're done. Well worth your time if you haven't heard it. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. This may have been the longest episode ever. If you're actually still listening at two hours in one minute, let me tell you that I think you would really enjoy the private Facebook group for the podcast Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes has over 20,000 members