#480 How We Eat: Bernstein
Alex has type 1 diabetes and follows the Bernstein Diet.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends. Welcome to Episode 480 of the Juicebox Podcast.
In today's episode, we're going to be speaking with Alex. Alex is a type one in the way she eats is why she's here. That's right. It's another episode of how we eat. And as you saw on your podcast player just now, today's topic, Dr. Bernstein. In the past, I've spoken with someone who eats a vegan lifestyle. Dr. Paul Saladino is here to tell us about the carnivore diet. We've had plant based people gluten free low carb today is Dr. Bernstein coming up soon keto, and fodmap. And I'm super excited to be telling you, I'll be recording one about intermittent fasting pretty soon. So excited. I'm excited. I love talking about how people eat. It's interesting. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.
This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod Dexcom and touched by type one, you can learn more about touched by type one at touched by type one.org. Or find them on Instagram, or Facebook. They're a wonderful organization doing incredible things for people with type one. I hope you check them out the Omni pod dash boot Did you know about this, let me tell you real quickly, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash find out at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. And to get started with the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. Or to find out more about it. All you need to do is go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box. I want to tell you before we start because I don't even know how much of your name you're going to use. But it doesn't it doesn't matter to me. But I want to tell you that every time I see your name, I think if I was going to be like a writer like that wrote like a kind of like exciting almost trashy novels. I would I would want your name,
Unknown Speaker 2:42
but I love it.
Scott Benner 2:44
Don't you think it just is like, now we won't tell anybody your last name and it'll be great. Nobody will wonder. But anyway.
Alex Quinn 2:51
I say my name sounds like a pseudo name for like a trashy novel writer or something to that effect. Yes.
Scott Benner 2:58
Even if, yeah, like writing like, I don't know, like, spy thrillers even or something like that.
Alex Quinn 3:05
Yes. I love that. That makes me happy. Thank you.
Scott Benner 3:08
I would feel very good about that. If that was my name, and I was writing a spy thriller anyway, and that I feel like 40 years from now, Tom Cruise in his 90s would play the main character in the movie.
Alex Quinn 3:22
Alright, I'll get to writing that and I'll let you know when it gets made into a movie.
Scott Benner 3:26
We have plenty of time. He's not aging, so don't worry about it. I heard I heard someone say the other day. This is such a strange way to start this off. But Tom Cruise is the same age. While he's making like Mission Impossible movies that Wilford Brimley was in the movie. Were they all in cocoon? I think or something like that.
Unknown Speaker 3:46
Wow, that crazy? Yes, that's that's quite the juxtaposition of characters.
Scott Benner 3:51
So you're on your balcony. Where do you live? ish?
Unknown Speaker 3:54
I live in Atlanta. Oh, cool. Yeah.
Scott Benner 3:58
Oh, and it's March so it must be at seven degrees there already?
Alex Quinn 4:02
No, it's in the 60s today but the sun is out and it's beautiful.
Scott Benner 4:06
hottest I've ever been in my life. I was in Georgia.
Unknown Speaker 4:09
Really?
Scott Benner 4:10
See I grew up in the desert in southern Arizona and I feel like that is way hotter. Maybe I've never been there. So my appendix almost a burst. Almost a burst. Ooh, English is going to be a problem today by my my appendix. Almost burst the night before I was supposed to go to Arizona for the noun. And I've since then I've been there once but only to fly in like be shuttled to something speak and fly out again. Gotcha. But Georgia was terrible.
Alex Quinn 4:42
What time of year did you come? Oh,
Scott Benner 4:44
it was summertime. My son was playing baseball. at its worst moment. I stood next to a telephone pole and circled it as the sun moves across the sky to stay in the small strip of shadow on
Alex Quinn 4:58
the pole. direct sun in Georgia summers pretty brutal,
Scott Benner 5:03
almost kill me. I'm not gonna, the boy almost died too. But I was worried about myself by that, you know, when you get into self preservation mode and you're like,
Alex Quinn 5:10
yeah, I hear it. You know, I lived in the desert for my like, from 10 to 22. So my youth and then moved to Georgia, and I never once had any sort of like heatstroke or anything like that until I moved to Georgia. The humidity, right? It was Yeah. Well, it was also the hottest day of the year and I was working in an amphitheater outside in like a bowl with indirect sunlight. So, you know, just a radiator just banging sudden heat around on those brutal
Scott Benner 5:46
Okay, anyway, well, now that we're five minutes into this, can you tell me your name, please?
Alex Quinn 5:51
Okay, my name is Alex. It's short for Alexandra. Alex Quinn is usually what I go by.
Scott Benner 6:01
And if you were an author, you would definitely go like that for certain totally, totally. Yes. I just don't know why it just every time like your name is Monica. We had to reschedule once, right. So it as it stuff bumps around in my inbox. I'm like, that's a great name for a book author. I love it anyway. Okay, so you're on? I'll tell you why. Well, not that you don't know. But um, basically, I don't know if this is a secret to people, Alex, I'm not really telling you. I'm telling the people listening. But I've been doing the how we eat series through the podcast, and people have been coming on talking about the different ways that they eat. And you were recommended to me by someone else. And when you emailed me to tell me how you eat, you said, you use the words Dr. Bernstein. I was like, Oh, that's interesting, because you're the first person who's ever come out and said, I like those words. Like some people say I'm low carb or stuff like that. But I was like, Sure, I would love this. So well. Yeah.
Alex Quinn 6:58
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Oh,
Scott Benner 7:01
well, that's odd. But thank you. I appreciate that letter.
Unknown Speaker 7:03
Why is that odd?
Scott Benner 7:05
Well, I mean, it's just me. I'm in a room. You don't I mean, like somebody was telling me the other day, like, they saw like somebody prepping to be on the show. And they were nervous. And I thought, well, that's so strange. Because I'm in Costco right now. And if you were, if there was anything to be nervous about talking to me, I wouldn't have to be in Costco. Like, that's how it occurred to me.
Alex Quinn 7:29
Right? I think I think it's because this carries the potential for it to be more in a public eye. And it's not just you and me. shooting on my back porch. Yeah, sorry. I suppose I shouldn't say shooting the breeze. There we go. Okay.
Scott Benner 7:46
Don't worry, I'll just cut it out. I'll be like, Okay, cool. I'll be like shooting, and it'll get really boring from it. Alright, I used to do beeps, and then I realized, why am I bothering with that it was extra time. And it was bored by it. So anyway, I, I'm happy about this. And yeah, the more of these I record, the happier I get about them, because I think that I think that as people we are very inclined to get into groups. Yes. Get on a team, where color that kind of stuff. Right? Okay. And then I think you bring in this sort of extra added layer of people feeling like they're saving your life when they're telling you something, right? They've been through a thing, and they don't, you don't have to go through it. And this is the thing that saved me. And, and then there's somebody on the other side, just like you're trying to take a thing from me or I have a different idea about how to write a view. And then it just becomes tribal. And it's very interesting.
Alex Quinn 8:46
Sure. And the the potential for like, dogma is enormous. And I I don't ascribe to that. I don't feel like that really helps anybody find their own way to living with type one and what it looks like for them.
Scott Benner 9:04
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I'm, I'm so I'm excited that you're that you're here to talk about. So first, let's start slow with how old were you when you were diagnosed?
Alex Quinn 9:13
So I was three years old. That was in 1992. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 9:20
I'm sorry. I'm remembering when I graduated from high school and feeling badly about myself, but good.
Alex Quinn 9:26
It's all good. Don't worry. My my partner is 12 years older than me. So we have conversations like that a lot. Yeah,
Scott Benner 9:31
no, can you just I mean, you just threw out a number. You were three years old, like three years after I graduated from high school. And I was like, Oh,
Alex Quinn 9:39
well, hopefully I don't make you feel old during this conversation. Other than that,
Scott Benner 9:42
no, I don't worry about that. If you do, I that might be more on me than you. So. So you're three you're diagnosed. I mean, 30 ish years ago, right? Okay.
Alex Quinn 9:52
It'll be 29 years this year.
Scott Benner 9:55
And your parents are obviously on board taking care of you. But you're In God 30 years ago was like regular and mph days, right?
Alex Quinn 10:04
Yeah. The analogs hadn't become available yet. So yes, I was on regular an MPH. But um, I'll tell you this. So my mother's two older brothers. Both have type one. Okay. And it wasn't, it wasn't unfamiliar to my family. And so my mom was actually the one who caught it first, because she grew up with brothers who had it. So she recognized, you know, the symptoms and took me to the doctor and, you know, made sure that they got the testing done that needed to be.
Scott Benner 10:41
Well, it makes sense that she saw it, she doesn't have Does your mom have any autoimmune stuff?
Alex Quinn 10:46
As far as we know, she does not, but she has had several rounds of skin cancer and breast cancer. So I don't, I don't think she got the autoimmune stuff. But pretty much every woman in my family on both sides has either an autoimmune disorder or cancer or both. So I find your neck a lot was doomed.
Scott Benner 11:16
I was just gonna, well, I was just gonna say it's incredibly interesting how people who live with chronic illness see the the roll of the dice of life, you were just like, Yeah, she didn't get diabetes, but she got something else. We're all screwed over here. It is. Pretty much. Yeah, no, it's, um, it's a telling statement. Because there's no other world where I would say to somebody, like, Hey, does your you know, you have a car? Does your mom have a car? And you were like, No, she doesn't have a car. But she does have an airplane. And it's, you would never say that. Right? Right. Right. But it feels very connected. And it's, um, and I don't know that. I don't feel the same way honestly. Feels like he got bit by some sort of a bug that other people don't get bit by or something like that.
Alex Quinn 11:59
For sure. Yeah, definitely. You know, I've actually, I've thought about that a lot over my life. Just because, you know, I have family members with it. And one of my uncle's died from type one complications. And I really feel like, and this is going to get a bit meta here. But like, my role here is to change the story. And really take my life with type one and do something with it. You know, like, I'm here to live well, and to, you know, take that story and turn it around, and, and prove that I don't have to die from complications or be like, riddled with them. You know, I can live a good life and still have the right one.
Scott Benner 12:46
Yeah, without giving away too much of somebody else's details. Do your uncle's not have a good go of it.
Alex Quinn 12:52
So they were diagnosed in the 60s. And blood sugar monitoring was, you know, the urine dipsticks back then. So they didn't have the tools to manage blood sugars when they were young, the way that we do now. So Well, I didn't imagine because to be honest, you were born in a time where it still wasn't terrific, either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, I know that I had it a little better than they did just because we had blood glucose monitors. By the time I was diagnosed, but I think that they didn't. My uncles and I were still on the same types of insulin. You know, 30 years later.
Scott Benner 13:40
Yeah, yeah. Well, such a leap now.
Unknown Speaker 13:43
Sure, yeah.
Scott Benner 13:44
Just It's a crazy difference. I'm going to revisit that idea while we're talking at some point, but so your mom is just I can't, by the way, I'm trying to imagine using that regular and mph and just like thinking like this babies on the schedule has to eat at certain times. Yeah. And because what are you gonna do? You're three, you're gonna be like, Hey, I feel dizzy,
Alex Quinn 14:05
you know? Right. Right. And I can clearly remember as a child, you know, having these like horrible low blood sugar episodes in the middle of the night where I just wake up, just totally disoriented, like vomiting and just, you know, out of my mind, and my parents would have to, like, force me to drink orange juice, or whatever they could get me into me at the time. And to this day, I still can't do oranges. Like, being forced to drink orange juice. Well, in that state as a child so many times I can't eat them. No,
Scott Benner 14:41
I understand. I really do. I had a piece of chicken from a certain place right before my appendix when I can't believe that came up twice. And I still can't like stomach the smell of the chicken even though it had literally nothing to do with my appendix.
Alex Quinn 14:56
Sure, but man, those associations get deep down in your psyche.
Scott Benner 14:59
They don't go away. Okay. Okay, so you, it's a tough go. Do you? Do you have context for your health outcomes? How did you measure them back then? Or did people are just being alive and not dizzy? constituted when?
Alex Quinn 15:16
I think, you know, as a toddler, it was basically like, Are you alive? And are you happy overall? You know, we're cool with that. But I, I don't have too much data on like specifics of blood sugars and eight, one C from when I was a child. I'm sure I could go back and dig it up. But I don't really, I don't really have that information. But my parents have told me that, you know, my a one sees when I was a kid were mostly like in the eight to 10 range. It got up to as high as 14 when I was a stubborn teenager who couldn't be bothered to take care of myself. But I've slowly and steadily improved things since then.
Scott Benner 16:04
Isn't it interesting, too, that no matter where you start, the idea of ignoring it just seems to exponentially make it grow. Like Like, there's like, I mean, what are you really ignoring as a team shooting twice a day? and eating certain times? That was it. Right?
Alex Quinn 16:23
Um, when I was a teenager, homologue had come out. And I was on Lantus as well. So I don't, it wasn't just, you know, twice a day injections and a rigid eating schedule by that time. So I think I was like, maybe five or six when the analogs became available, and they put me on those as soon as they could. Oh, good. Okay.
Scott Benner 16:45
And so you just can you describe a little bit about what it means to just ignore it when you're a teenager?
Alex Quinn 16:52
Sure. Um, so I think for me, I just deeply rejected the notion that I had to do this. And it was just, it was painful for me, because I didn't want to deal with it. And I didn't want to be, you know, the freak with needles, because that's how my peers viewed me when I was a child and I got bullied a lot for my diabetes, had a lot of like, really not pleasant experiences with my peers about my being the only person in the entire school who has type one. So by the time I got to be a teenager, I was like, EFF this, I do not want to deal with it. I'm weird enough as it is without this in my life. So, you know, I just don't care. I don't want to you can't make me and I was, I'm a stubborn person. And when I was a teenager, I was even more stubborn. And you know, you couldn't get me to do something I didn't want to do. So, at that point, my parents were kind of like, Okay, well, if you don't take your insulin, you're gonna end up in the hospital, in decay. So let's put you on the pump to at least make sure that you get something in you. So I think when I was 14, they put me on an insulin pump. And I am convinced that that insulin pump kept me out of the hospital from like 14 to 21. You know, I would not have taken care of myself at that point.
Scott Benner 18:33
I'm really interested that you said it that way. Because I've gotten the feeling over the years talking to adults who have had type one for a long time. That that is what an insulin pump was considered. In the beginning, it was like, Alright, this is for people who are just not going to take care of this. So we'll get them at least their basil in through the pump, and maybe once in a while for lucky, they'll push some buttons with me. Mm hmm. Right.
Alex Quinn 18:56
Yeah, totally. That was that was exactly how it was for me. And I think part of my rejection of everything was because of my family history with type one. My mom's brother died when he was 37. And I was seven. And he died of type one complications. And my family kind of used that as the example of what not to do. And they were like, you know, finger wagging. Take care of yourself, or you're gonna end up like your uncle. So in my little seven year old brain, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna die like my uncle. So why does it matter? And by the time I hit teenage years, I was like, I can't even care. You know, if that's what my adult life is gonna look like, why should I even bother you a third
Scott Benner 19:48
of the way to death already? 14, right.
Unknown Speaker 19:51
Yeah,
Scott Benner 19:52
I'm almost there. And I'm doing it. Like you're getting up in the morning and nobody's staring at you and nobody's making fun of you. If you're not showing them your needles and everything is right. There was somebody on once I wish I could remember their name, who told me that they had a person bullying them about their diabetes, who would just say to them die? diabetes?
Unknown Speaker 20:09
Oh, yeah.
Scott Benner 20:10
That was like, wow, how? I mean, try harder at the very least. But you know, yeah. But you mentioned being I mean, I almost say, Can you imagine being a kid? Like, yes, Scott, I
Alex Quinn 20:24
can. I can. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I can't remember. Like, I went to Pizza Hut one time with my soccer team when I was 10. And I went to the bathroom to go test my blood sugar and take a shot. And I'm standing at the counter in the bathroom, and drawing up my insulin. And one of my teammates walked in and saw me with a needle and just started hysterically screaming. And her mother came in, and she was like, Why are you screaming? She sees me with a needle, and then she starts freaking out about me in the bathroom with a needle. And I got so upset that I just, like stormed out of the bathroom. And I went, and I got my mom. And I was like, Mom, I need you to deal with this. And my mom had to come in and be like, What is wrong with two of you? You know, like, she's 10? Yeah, well, you know,
Scott Benner 21:22
20 years later, you would have just looked at them and said, Hey, Karen's calm down. Right? Right. Diabetes, just chill out a second. I'd like to know, I just tried to do my business here.
Unknown Speaker 21:33
Sure. Yeah. No, actually, sorry. Go ahead. I
Scott Benner 21:36
just was gonna say it bothers me when I hear that people used to get driven into bathrooms to give themselves insulin,
Alex Quinn 21:41
right? Well, I you know, and that bothers me too. Because I've gotten to the point in my life where I just don't care, I have to do this. And if it makes somebody else uncomfortable, they can just not watch I'm gonna do it whenever and wherever I have to, because other people's pancreas is are doing it whenever and wherever they have to. So you know, my pancreas just lives in a bag that I carry around? Well, the truth is,
Scott Benner 22:07
you have to care more about your health than you do about what other people think. It just exactly just ends up being very important. You can't, you can't just you can't, I mean, imagine, it's so hard for me, because I don't have a personality like that, where my wife and I were talking the other day about. She got a she's looking for cars a couple years ago, and I really thought she was going to buy a jeep. And yesterday, I said to her, I was really, I'm not sure how we got back on the topic. Maybe it's, you know, I'm not certain. And I said, I was really surprised when you didn't buy a jeep. And she said, Yeah, I did want one but and she started talking about the experience she was having with the salesperson, and how it kind of led her out of the place. And I can't make sense of that. Like, if if I had a, I can't explain to you there, there'd be no situation where a salesperson could do or say or create a scenario where I would leave and then go buy a car that I didn't want, because that was so bad. But my wife's like, in part that happened. You know, she's like I was, it was early in the process. And I didn't I wasn't invested enough to push through this scenario. And I thought, Oh, my God, like, that would never happen to me. But But I recognize that it's, it's a it's a reality for a lot of people that you just, I mean, and so that's why I try to say on here, the that idea that I think your health just has to be more important to you than what other people think you just can't. Yeah.
Alex Quinn 23:38
100%. And, you know, I think that i think that that ties in a lot to the pressure against eating low carb and following Bernstein because there's, there is, like, almost vitriol against it in some circles. And, you know, you have to be steadfast in your convictions that, you know, this is a choice that I made for myself, and I'm not doing it for anyone else. And I really don't care what you think. Yeah.
Scott Benner 24:11
I I'm in a unique situation where I feel like I understand both sides of this, like, fight that you see happen online sometimes. And, and I don't know that there's, I don't really think there's a fight. I think there's these Anyway, we'll get to it as we're talking. I think it's interesting how it works, but and I agree with you, you know, and Listen, I've had enough adults on who eat low carb, then I there's a commonality through your stories usually, which Yeah, you know what I mean? And it is, I've noticed that too. Yeah, it's it's Look, I was diagnosed at a time where I didn't have a sensor that could tell me that for carbs, maybe go from 86 to 104. And you know, and I, we sometimes were using insulin that was inexact. Nobody ever told me to, you know, you don't Pre-Bolus you know, regular and mph. So that's not how I grew up and then you get not stuck even but you're just indoctrinated into this is how diabetes is handled, and then people bring you a newer insulin. And that's frightening to see, you're like, you got it younger, you got him a lot younger. But I watched a buddy, I watched that a friend of mine happened to he had to go through regular and mph to, you know, humor blog novolog. And that stuff might as well have been rocket fuel that they were putting in him.
Alex Quinn 25:34
Sure. And they are they are not the same, or not the same, like completely different action profile, completely different effect completely different timeframe. Like, it's, it's, yeah,
Scott Benner 25:48
I think there's nothing the same about using that older insulin and the newer insulin?
Alex Quinn 25:52
No, not at all. And you know, I'll I'll say this. Yeah, to that point, when I first started following Dr. Bernstein, I had to, like, take everything I thought I knew about diabetes management and kind of put it in a box over there for a second, and then focus solely on learning an entirely new way of doing things. And it was really challenging for me, because I had at that time, you know, 23 years under my belt.
Scott Benner 26:37
I'm going to start today with the Omni pod and tell you that you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash, this is an exceptional possibility for you. And I hope you check it out. Omni pod comm forward slash juice box, get there and see if you're eligible. Now, what are we talking about here? a 30 day trial, this is a usable thing, like they're gonna send you the dash enough for you to I mean, you get it right for 30 days, it's pretty crazy. On the pod does other stuff. Like if you don't want to try the dash for 30 days for free, or you're not eligible, you can ask them for a free, no obligation demo pod will they'll just send you out one pod, but it's nonfunctioning, and I know you're like, well, what am I gonna do with that? Well, what you're gonna do with it is where, and you get a real good vibe for it. Like, this is what it feels like to have on you know, you'll notice, I mean, at least for me, when I've worn it in the past, that you just stopped noticing it. And this, this demo pod is really great for that. I think they call it a pod experience kit. So you can you know, alright, look, that's a lot, right? There's two things, but Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash, or at the very least, everyone can get a demo pod. I feel like I can hear you and you're like Scott, why would I do that? couple of reasons. You're on MDI and you're looking for a pump. This is a great way to try. You have a pump that has a tube on it. And every day of your life You think I don't want this to pump. There's so much tubing, why is there tubing going through my underwear, maybe that's your heart. This would be another good reason why the Omni pod is tubeless. It doesn't have to point to bling. That's not a word tubing. It's worth looking into on the pod.com forward slash juice box. My daughter Arden has been wearing it on the pod since she was four years old. She's about to turn 17 she's worn one every day. It's been a real friend in this. And I think maybe it could be for you as well. Now another thing I don't know what I would do without is the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor being able to see Arden's blood sugar, the number like what it is the direction and the speed, it's moving, it's moving all in real time is crazy bananas. Now I know that Arden's blood sugar right now is 127. She's having some popcorn, and we might have missed on the Pre-Bolus a little bit. But it's kind of Alright, because we'll watch this, see what's up, make an adjustment if necessary, and have a lot of comfort doing it because again, I can see the speed direction and number of her blood sugar all the time. I can see it on my iPhone. If I had an Android phone, I'd be able to see it on my Android phone. Arden can see it by the way on her phone as well. And if we wanted up to 10 people could be watching Arden's blood sugar. I mean, I don't even know 10 people, but if I did, and I wanted them to see my daughter's blood sugar, we could do that with the Dexcom. You may be thinking about people who you'd like to be able to see your child's blood sugar or perhaps your own. And you're thinking Oh, Scott, I see what you're getting. That is a good idea. And you're right it is. Now what do you do? You go to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox and while you're out there on the internet, check out touched by type one.org. There are links to these sponsors and all the sponsors at Juicebox Podcast comm or right there in the show notes of your podcast player. Have you ever really looked around on that podcast player? Which by the way, if you're listening to one, please subscriber, follow the show.
so dramatic. Okay, let's get back to Alex.
Alex Quinn 30:34
How do you take 23 years of thinking that this is how I do this, and put it aside for a second to learn something new, it just, it's like learning a new language. That's in it. I did it. But it was hard. People should,
Scott Benner 30:50
people might find commonality in this idea. There are people who go from MDI, to a pump, right? And the common, the commonality, there's people will tell you, hey, that's it's like learning diabetes all over again, like you'll, you'll feel like you have it all worked out. And by the way, who all worked out usually just means there's a pace and a balance to your life that you're accustomed to. Not that not that you're walking around with a five to a once that you've got it all worked out. Because I would imagine someone with a five to whose MD is like, I don't need a pump. And that would make sense to me. Right? So you move from that. That would be me. Yeah. So you'd move from MDI, to a pump? And it's like learning it all over again.
Unknown Speaker 31:30
It is Yeah, sure.
Scott Benner 31:31
So the same would be from going from, you know, humalog. And, you know, some needles to I'm going to remove, like most of the carbohydrate impact out of my life. It's like starting over again.
Unknown Speaker 31:44
Yeah, it was for sure.
Unknown Speaker 31:45
How long did it take you to figure it out?
Alex Quinn 31:47
Oh, man. So okay, for context. When I started Bernstein, it was out of sheer desperation, because I had been diagnosed with retinopathy. And I was 25 at the time, and it scared the daylights out of me. He and I had, I didn't know it at the time, I got this diagnosis later, but it also had gastroparesis and neuropathy. So in my mid 20s, you know, showing long term complications, and I was like, I have to do anything and everything I possibly can to make this not happen, because I know where this leads. And so my, my health was not great. So adjusting to a whole new diet and asking my metabolism to do something that it had never done before. And learning how to manage my insulin around that was enormously challenging. So I think I took about six months to just lean myself down slowly off of carbs, because I tried to do it cold turkey, and it made me like violently ill to the point where I thought I needed to go to the hospital. So I backtracked. And I was like, Oh, okay. Oh, no, no, don't do that.
Scott Benner 33:17
Have a Do you have a CGM now? And did you have one then?
Alex Quinn 33:20
Um, I don't have one. Now. I didn't have one when I started, but I got one shortly thereafter. Okay. And I'll, I'll explain my stance on CGM. I'm allergic to medical adhesives. So I had one I used it. I took all the data I could possibly glean from all of that for as long as I could stand to wear it. And then I got to the point where I was like, I'm covered in rashes that never heal, and they drive me insane. And I just can't do this anymore. So I got rid of it.
Scott Benner 34:00
Yeah, I have to say about that, that it really is unfair, that seriously autoimmune issues that that end you up with a disease that could really be greatly benefited by something that has adhesive on it. And you might also have an adhesive allergy because of autoimmune issues is like right, double suck. You know, it's just like, Wow, thanks.
Alex Quinn 34:24
Trust me. If I wasn't allergic to medical adhesives, I probably have built my own DIY closed loop rig by now and just be like killing it, but I can't wear them. I could not figure out a way to not have an allergic reaction to so I got rid of
Scott Benner 34:42
I understand how did you try all the barrier creams and stuff like that?
Alex Quinn 34:45
Everything. Everything I could possibly find. I joined groups on Facebook specifically for people who have allergic reactions to these products. like yeah, it's Yeah, I tried everything. I could I just it wasn't worth it, you know,
Scott Benner 35:03
feels like walking through a desert and finding a well full assault water. You're just
Unknown Speaker 35:08
yeah,
Alex Quinn 35:10
you know, so no, because Okay, here's my thing like I, I think CGM are amazing technology. But I didn't grow up with one. And I don't need it.
Scott Benner 35:22
Now you figured something else out?
Alex Quinn 35:24
Right? And I understand why other people feel like they absolutely need it. But I don't, I don't have that push for myself. You know, I think that the data is really interesting. And I find a lot of value in being able to see the trend lines and the graphs and you know, adjust like that. But I can do that, with my glucose meter, poking my finger, and I don't care about finger sticks. They don't bother me. I've been doing it since I was three. So
Scott Benner 35:56
well, I would imagine also with the small amount of carbs that you're taking in that the variability is much less and so you're using insulin to stop the spikes. And you and of course, I say all the time that the lessons when you use, the less chance you're going to have have a low later. So for sure, yeah, you're in that in that space?
Alex Quinn 36:16
I am definitely. And I honestly, I think that's, that, to me, the stability that you just described is the number one thing that keeps me doing what I do. Because
Scott Benner 36:29
Yeah, I would say that I'm sorry, one second, I'm going to tell you that our connection is just a little bumpy, or I'm stepping on you and I apologize, but I'll finish and let you get right back to it. I think if Arden my daughter ate low carb, like a real low carb diet, I think I can pretty comfortably put her a one C in the mid fours. I don't think yeah, it would be hard, honestly.
Alex Quinn 36:51
Yeah. Um, I have some long term complications that make that tight control a little more challenging for me. Like the the gastro precice really affects my digestion. So, you know, there are some days where everything works great. And then the next day, you know, I wake up with food that I ate 12 hours ago still sitting in my stomach, and it doesn't I can't do anything about it, except kind of do damage control. So I would love to be able to achieve that. But I've had I have accepted that. You know where I'm at right now is still really really good.
Scott Benner 37:34
Yeah. My my point wasn't that what you're doing isn't good. My point was that I know what my daughter eats a whatever she wants. Okay, so she doesn't have like a like a limit on what kind of food she's taking in. And I have her a once he really settled in the mid fives. And that's cool. Yeah. And like Saturday, she you know, got up and last minute said to me, can you go to the corner to the bagel place and get me a blueberry crunch bagel. Have them toasted put butter on it. And I was like, and she was on her way to a lesson she's taking. She's taking sewing lessons. I don't know if I should say that here if she'd be anyway, she's taking. And so I roll out. I grabbed the you know, as I leave I think her blood sugar's about 94. Yeah, I said, Okay, I'm gonna go I'll be back in like 20 minutes, just Bolus 10 carbs right now. So she puts it in a little Bolus, get some insulin working as I'm driving back and fairly comfortable, I won't be killed in a car accident. I text her again. And I say you know, Bolus this much now. And, and we stayed on top of that bagel for the first. I don't think it came back to try to bite us again for maybe about three hours. And then you use the CGM data to say to myself, okay, here comes the second round of this bagel. And then right, you hit it again, and it stops it from spiking again. So like, given that, that, you know, a five and a half is amazing. But if you took away all those carbs and how I understand how to use insulin, I just think that it would, I don't think I don't think I'd have trouble with I think it would kind of be it might be easy, honestly. So yeah,
Alex Quinn 39:12
for sure. It really takes a lot of the cognitive processes out of things. Like I don't, I don't have to pay attention like that. And I do just because I want to I like keeping on top of things and being proactive about stuff. But you know, I I Bolus right before I eat a check again an hour later, and I'm usually like, pretty dead on right where I was before I ate something. Yeah. And I really appreciate that stability in my life because it allows me to do other things. And that's what's most important. There's no
Scott Benner 39:57
calm to it, I would imagine.
Alex Quinn 39:59
Oh man So I was, I was starting to tell you a story earlier. But um, so when I had been following Dr. Bernstein, or a couple months and had really like, hit my stride with it and started understanding what the hell I was doing. I was at work one day, and I tested my blood sugar. And it was in the 90s. And I stopped, and I thought about it. And I realized that my blood sugar had been in the 90s, consistently for over a week. And that was the first time in my entire life that I had ever felt that and I just cried. I'm getting teary eyed now thinking about it, because it's still such a profound moment for me, you know? Like, I had never, ever experienced that kind of internal stability before. Yeah. And it just, it was like, somebody hit me over the head, and I just started crying happy tears, and like, my boss came over. And she's like, are you okay? And I was like, No, no, it's
Unknown Speaker 41:03
a good thing. It's a good thing.
Unknown Speaker 41:05
I'm healthy.
Alex Quinn 41:07
But I 26 for the first time in my life. Yeah. Wait, that. I like there are no words to describe how profound that was for me. And I'm doing my best right now.
Scott Benner 41:21
I can't imagine Honestly, it seems like it would have been, it would have been like a moment where you saw the sun for the first time, right? Just Just a man.
Alex Quinn 41:30
Yeah, it was it was so profound. And having experienced that, I was like, oh, man, I'm I cannot go back to how my life was before. I can't.
Scott Benner 41:41
So we don't really. So I have some theories about the world. I think that media, social Li, the social kind, is incredibly valuable. Because without social media, no one would ever hear your story, I wouldn't be able to talk about the things I talked about. And at the same time, it opens up avenues for people to I always think it's be scared, and then react to the fear. Like that's how, how it seems to me you hear something that's uncommon or different to you. And your brain immediately goes for Oh, well, what about this? Or this? You know, like, yeah, it's just, it's, I mean, it's how my brain works. I work backwards from now. Like, my kids could come to me and say, Hey, Dad, we have a foolproof plan to make $100 today, and I would go, No. And then I would ask, and then I would ask questions, and to see if they could get me off of now. Sure, some people are, you know, not like that. But I think that in social media, you get you get shown things that are so far from how you think that it can be shocking. And when I when I see it, I'm always like, Oh, that's interesting. Like somebody does something like this. But that's not that's not common for everybody.
Alex Quinn 42:57
No, it isn't. And I think that knee jerk reaction really prevents people from accessing things that could actually help them.
Scott Benner 43:07
Yeah. And it's interesting to watch the things that you'll be able to believe and the things you'll be able to display, like, like, I'm going to just tell you right now, like, I don't think my daughter would ever eat low carb, okay. And that's neither here nor there for this conversation for us. Because what I see people do is a number of different things. And you've probably seen them all too. I eat low carb and my blood sugar's super stable. I've been I was in the 90s, once for two weeks, eating just protein is not healthy. I'm assuming you've heard that. Right. And then you think, Well, how do you know? Like, so. So you heard eating just proteins not healthy, that you believe I tell you, I'm eating just protein? And look how well I'm doing that you disbelieve? That's got nothing to do with protein and the health of protein? It's no,
Alex Quinn 43:55
that's just cognitive dissonance rearing its ugly head. Yeah.
Scott Benner 43:58
It's very interesting. Like, I'm going to disagree with this now, because it's different than mine. And to go deeper, not to make everybody think too deeply about themselves, because that can be painful sometimes. But I think what it really says is, oh, gosh, what if I'm doing it wrong? Oh, yeah. hurting myself? Or what if I'm doing it wrong and hurting my kid? Yep. And then you don't want to feel that way. So then you have to fight the other person, because this is the thing you're doing. Now. I'm not saying it. I'm not saying eating carbs is hurting anybody. I obviously don't feel that way. Because, you know, my daughter is doing it
Alex Quinn 44:38
right now. But I understand what you're saying. Because people want to feel like they're doing the best thing they can for themselves or their children. And when presented with information that might possibly contradict that idea. It can be painful that they have to admit that hey, maybe I could be doing better, even though I thought I was so
Scott Benner 45:00
Because there's no time machine. And yeah, and you're and you're running towards listening, we are all running towards our death. Okay? I don't mean to be too like deep here. But if if you have been making decisions for the past 10 years that have been running you faster To that end, and suddenly you're you realize, Oh gosh, this is wrong. Do you put your head down and run faster? Because you don't want to feel badly about what happened? Or do you look up and stop and go, okay, maybe I should be doing something differently. And again, I'm not making that this or that discerning comment about low carb and not low carb. I'm just telling to tell you why people react the way they do.
Alex Quinn 45:36
Sure, sure. And, you know, I run into that enough times that I recognize that pattern. And, you know, everybody deals with new information differently.
Scott Benner 45:48
Yep. And I'll say this, too. Because of the internet again, the internet draws in lost, lost people and new people in health space all the time, right? I either I need an answer, maybe these people will have it. Or, you know, I'm brand new with this. I don't know what I'm talking about. Let me see if I can go find out. So when you keep bringing in the new people over and over again, they keep having the same reactions, because they're at the same space in their progress. Right. That's why it seems like people are always arguing about the same things, not because the world is overwhelmed with people who are carb versus no carb or republican versus Democrat. But because these people are constantly brought together for the first time around this. I mean, you're in your 30s I'm almost 50. It's comical, around political season to hear people talk about politics as if it is a brand new thing that just heard for the first time, right? Yeah, or really anything really, like, you know, racism, you're like, oh, my god, there's racism. I've known I've been alive longer than you have. I've been in this space longer. But when people first find out about it, it's so shocking. And by the way, in some worlds, it's the lighting to see how motivated they are. To do something, it's amazing. It's as an older person, you look back and go look young people some energy, thank god get in there and scream about racism. We need Yeah. Like, yeah,
Alex Quinn 47:22
totally. You know, I I have that same mindset when people start talking about we need a cure. I'm like, Alright, get it. Yeah, I don't care.
Scott Benner 47:30
No, you're right. We definitely need one. And if you get it call me, but yeah, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 47:35
I've already been
Alex Quinn 47:36
in the meantime, I, I've been there. I've done that. I've gotten over it. And I have better things to consider myself.
Scott Benner 47:42
I, I've already been at this part. And now and now you're at that part and great. But the problem is, is that when people look inward, they'll say things like, well, we're as divided as we've ever been. mean? Or I'm sorry. I've misspoken. I think we're as divided as we've ever been. People are like this is as divided as we've ever been. And I don't think that's true. I think that it's all been the same forever. There's more people.
Alex Quinn 48:09
I think that it's more that we're now aware of all of the opinions as opposed to, you know, existing inside of an echo chamber. Exactly. And the internet, the internet really brings all of the opinions together. Yes. And that's why you get so much infighting and argument. And it's like, Look, we all have our own experience, and have drawn our own conclusions from it. And all of us are operating from a place where we think we are right,
Scott Benner 48:37
your friend circle is built of people who you either feel superior to, or agree with. sorry to tell you.
Unknown Speaker 48:47
No,
Scott Benner 48:49
like, well, you ever noticed some people just like to feel like they're in charge of the friend circle? Yes. And so they put themselves with people, they feel like that's reasonable for them to do. And but my bigger point not to get I don't want to go down a different rabbit hole. But But the idea, yeah, you bring you you surround yourself with people who agree with you. And so when you hear of an outside influence, everybody poopoo it and suddenly you don't hear about the outside influences any longer because you're so surrounded with people who agree. And then the internet to your point makes it impossible to avoid other people's opinions. Sure. And then we say stupid things like oh my god, we're as divided as we've ever been. We just have more cons. It's the world's not a more dangerous place. It's not a more racist place. It's not a more anything place. It's, you're just aware of it now, in 1949, if there was a tornado in Kansas, you did not know about it if you lived in New York, right? That kind of stuff. So, so so back to car versus no car. I think what can happen already, we'll play like, we'll take sides. Okay. And then we'll, we'll have a little conversation. You'll be the low car person because you're doing an RD. My kids just diagnosed, I feel like normalcy has been taken from them. You have been saved by eating a low carb lifestyle. Someone that comes from your perspective swoops in sees this newly diagnosed person and thinks I can save them all the pain that I went through. Mm hmm. Right. And then you come in you say, Dr. Bernstein, and other words that you know, mean low carb, and some and their their feeling is either Oh my god, I'm so scared by this. I'm gonna go try that. Or you can't take my kids normalcy from me and cupcakes at their birthday.
Alex Quinn 50:40
Right? Right, right? Yes, I would agree with that. And I'm actually pretty active in a newly diagnosed parents of type one kids group. For that reason, but not because I want to prove that I'm right. But just because there's so much knowledge of managing diabetes that you have to wrap your head around. And the learning curve is extremely steep. And, you know, a lot of people have never even been exposed to type one until their kid is diagnosed. And then they're just confused. And they have no idea what the EFF they're doing. And so, I come along, after almost 30 years, and I'm like, hey, you're going to be okay. And here's what I've learned about how to live with this stuff. And I'm not there to prove that I'm right. But I think that mentors are extremely important with this kind of thing. Yeah. And, you know, I had him growing up. My mom's two older brothers were type one. So I had a family member, I could call if I wanted to, to just be like, this is happening. And, you know, I think we need that. But I think you're right to like, the Don't take my kids last sense of normalcy away from them is is a really powerful driving force,
Scott Benner 52:06
right? And then they'll hear all kinds of different things. If you if you came to me and said that privately, like, forget the internet, if you came to me and said, Oh, my God, normalcy it's gone, Bob, I'd say, hey, look, I think that there's a way for you to eat a cupcake. And for it not to make your blood sugar crazy and lead to a bunch of long term issues here. And and if you start laying those things out, like you said, they're overwhelming. So yes, I, if you understand the, the, the place I came from, because we have a pretty firm understanding of where you came from. So the place I came from was, I had a kid with diabetes, no real attachment to it. Nobody told me how to do it. I started a blog where I was talking about it. And so I was watching it happen and seeing what I needed to happen differently, that I figured out how to make it happen differently. And then I thought, okay, here it is, excuse me, once I get the spring. Here, here's this stuff, read it if you want, I don't care. Doesn't matter to me. It's here if you want it. And then I watched it help people. I thought, Okay, why is it not helping people faster? Well, it's not as digestible as it needs to be, I can break this down farther and farther and farther into simple to understand concepts. And I feel like I've basically done that by now. And so then you go to audio. And it turns out, it's way easier to listen to this kind of stuff than it is to read about it, my and, and so now you see it helps one people, it helps 10 people have 100. And then once you get to the 10,000, and the 20,000, and you start having millions of people listening, then you go, Okay, this really power this works, right, like so keep it simple, like keep the ideas simple. And now now I'm completely comfortable telling you that I could see somebody get diagnosed, be lost, and inside of those same handful of months that you're talking to just understand it, and they can use the insight. So if that's what they want, I'm cool with that, if they want to use those same tools to eat low carb or vegetarian or just fish eyeballs, or I don't give people I so don't care. It's it's hard for you to wrap but might be hard for you to wrap your head around. I genuinely don't care what people do.
Unknown Speaker 54:21
I don't either,
Scott Benner 54:22
right. I just want them to be healthy as they can be and as happy as you can be. Whatever.
Unknown Speaker 54:26
Yes. Same.
Unknown Speaker 54:27
Yes.
Alex Quinn 54:28
So you know, you mentioned tools. And honestly, to me, that is the most important thing that I got from reading Dr. Bernstein's book, and, you know, listening to his teleseminars and YouTube videos and stuff. It wasn't the, you know, the regimen to do this. Do that. It was here are the tools to understand how to make these things work for you. Yeah. You know how you manipulate the insulin dosing to match what you're going to eat or your activity level and how to do Basal testing and cover meals. Like, those were essential skills that I didn't learn in that way. Until I was like 26. Yeah. And I think those are, those are more important to me than, you know, cut out the carb only eat protein and non starchy vegetables like, I mean, if you can learn how to understand the insulin, and how to interpret the data, you've got, like, that's the leg up you need.
Scott Benner 55:38
That's exactly what I say all the time. Just to understand how the insulin works. I tell people, Type One Diabetes is about understanding how insulin works. And moreover, the timing and amount that you should use. You need to have your basil, right, understand how to Pre-Bolus meals and the difference between the impacts and different carbs. And that's pretty much the whole game right there.
Alex Quinn 55:56
Yeah, for sure. And protein,
Scott Benner 55:58
right? And then you go eat protein, if you want in fat and protein, get a rise later from that kind of stuff. It's I mean, but at its basis, if you were like I always say like if I was falling off a cliff and you're like, Scott, the secret to diabetes, I just scream those four things out before I splattered on the chair. If I was falling an extra 500 feet, I'd be like, and fat and protein will make your blood sugar rise two hours.
Unknown Speaker 56:22
Right. But
Scott Benner 56:23
I just don't see. I Well, I am lying. I do see. I do see how people get embroiled in the thing. I do see how the thing looks bigger than it is. And I understand people's fervency behind it because I imagine that the way you feel when you see somebody say I can't control my blood sugar's my Awan sees 10 is the exact same way that I feel when I see somebody say it.
Alex Quinn 56:51
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because I've been there, and I know what that feels like. And I want those people to have that same profound moment of realizing that stability that I have, because it changes your life. And if you want to do that by eating blueberry crunch bagels, like get after it, you know, but let's figure out how to make that work for you. 100%
Scott Benner 57:15
I don't just don't care what people eat. I care if they're healthy. And I'm thrilled that you're the one that ended up here. Because Because you're you have the exact you have my aesthetic You are in my Viber exactly the same. Yes, totally from two completely different places, as far as the the input of what food is. And that's why I think that's exciting. And that's why I want people to hear conversations like this because you're not mad at Alex because she eats the way Dr. Bernstein describes. And by the way, the man should be lauded for figuring out what he did. Because, right, especially at that time, when the tools were, what they were, as far as insulin was and technology and everything. He really figured out a thing that saved people like listen to you, right, you did what you were told to do, and you have gastroparesis, and other issues coming along. And if you don't meet this man's ideas, I gotta think your heart starts getting funky in your 40s. Right. not pretty, right? Yeah,
Alex Quinn 58:18
yeah, totally. I mean, I started to go blind when I was in my 20s. Like, if I hadn't found Bernstein's methods, I would probably not have any eyesight left. And, and that's profound. It is, yeah, it really is. So, you know, I understand if, if it's not the choice that somebody else wants to make, but it is the choice that made my life better. And that's just the message I keep blasting out into the ether. Like, this works. For me, okay. It worked for me.
Scott Benner 58:53
100%, I say all the time, if you if you listen to this podcast, then go eat low carb, actually, there are some pretty successful low carb eaters that listen to the podcast. And I mean, their their health is a reflection of their success. It's amazing. It doesn't, you know, it takes a while because dogmatic might be one way to think of but everybody just gets on a team. Like all of a sudden, if you say Bernstein out loud, that just means you're some militant, no car beating person. And if
Unknown Speaker 59:20
Oh, I know.
Scott Benner 59:22
And I didn't recognize Alex until more recently that if somebody said, oh, there's a podcast, they say bold with insulin, that meant that I think you should eat everything in the world. And I was like, I don't think that I've never even said that. But it's I'm sure that there are things attached to Dr. Bernstein and other people that they've never said or intended out loud. Just like it happens to me as well. You know? Yeah.
Alex Quinn 59:45
It's for sure. It's I mean, there are some groups on the internet where you mentioned Bernstein and they will mute you and kick you
Scott Benner 59:51
out. Yes, you are not allowed to share the podcast on almost every Facebook group that exists. If you haven't talked about it. It just gets you Like shutdown. And then if people come back to my Facebook page and say, Hey, I tried to, you know, somebody had a thing, and I said, Oh, you should try this podcast, I got kicked out. If they start talking about it on my Facebook page, people from that Facebook page will come and ask me, please stop them from talking badly about my Facebook page. And I'm like, you guys have way too much free time. just way too much free time. You know, I
Alex Quinn 1:00:23
mean, like, I love talking about diabetes, because I enjoy the intellectual exercise behind all of it. But like, as far as my day to day stuff, like, I don't have time to care like that.
Scott Benner 1:00:38
Yeah, well, you know, the wall, tell us a person who's you know, who created the thing that we're talking about, right? Is that it took me I had to swallow hard The first time I saw it happen. So imagine, I have, I've always had a public Facebook page. It's always just sort of been like, there's an episode out here the links, I don't put, like, I'm a 50 year old guy. I'm not really into Facebook. I don't know if that's obvious or not. But I'm just like, you know, here it is. And one day listener said, Could you make a private group because we'd like to talk more about like, like, management stuff? And I was like, Yeah, sure. I said, but I'm not going to moderate it. And I'm not your mom, you know, so I made it. And there it is, right. And today is You and I are talking I think it's about ready to go over like 10,000 like, and it's incredibly active, like 85% of the people are active. Like, every, it's amazing how many people are, right. It's very nice. But the first time someone came in, and somebody said, Hey, I'm having this issue, what should I do? And someone left a link for something that wasn't the podcast? I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm not the only person with information about this. But I do have an episode about this. And it's hard not to jump in and be like, Hey, I see you're directing them over here. But what about Episode 295? You know, and it took me a little while I didn't do it. But I, I laid back and I'm like, this doesn't matter. If they go somewhere else and find out about it, it doesn't matter as long as there. Okay, so people will will say, you should try this low carb thing, or you should try this, or you should try that. And I'm like, cool. That's fine. Just I want everybody to be okay.
Alex Quinn 1:02:16
But make sure. I also feel like my approaches is all information is valid, but not all information is applicable. Sure. So, you know, I want to be aware of all the ways in which people go about doing things and, you know, I think that there's just as much merit in you know, protein focused, low carb eating for Bernstein as there is in the, you know, Whole Foods plant based no fat thing. Yeah, I wouldn't make that choice. I don't agree with it. But it exists, and I can't deny that it exists. So at least I can be aware of it and and learn enough about it to understand why somebody would make that choice. Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:03:04
If you ask me my personal opinion, I think that rush, restrict is not the right word specific, specific eating is has a likelihood of falling apart over time, no matter what it is, like, if I if I told you I was gonna eat ice cream every day, I could probably make it like a day and a half. I was like, oh, Christ, I can't come every day.
Alex Quinn 1:03:28
Okay, so I wrote out some talking points for myself before we started this. And the word restriction is one of the things I wanted to talk about, because restriction and deprivation get thrown around a lot in the conversation about eating low carb. And I feel like that sort of takes away the autonomous choice of the individual. If you if you look at it as I choose to eat this, I consciously am aware of what I am about to eat and I am deliberately making this choice for myself for an intended outcome. Yeah. You're not restricted, and you're not surprised. What's the word then? So
Scott Benner 1:04:15
help. Seriously, here's it. Here's a real world issue. If I go to a thing, and I speak at something, I have about three sentences, they put in a blurb, Scott benders those to the Juicebox Podcast, a va, his daughter's a one C has been between five, two and 6247 years without any diet restrictions. Now that those are all the words I have, I get that the word restrictions not great, but how do I say she eats anything she wants? Without using that, like, what's the word I need?
Alex Quinn 1:04:43
That's a good question. That's I honestly, I don't have an answer to that. Um, you know,
Scott Benner 1:04:48
because I don't mean it the way you just said it. But I get why you heard it that way.
Alex Quinn 1:04:55
Right. Right. For sure. I mean, I don't know. Does you No telling your kid regardless of whether they have diabetes, no, you can. subsist only on grilled cheese and candy every day. Like, is that restrictive? Or is that just like parenting for better health?
Scott Benner 1:05:13
100%? Yeah. And do you think that when I told you I used an example of the bagel that my daughter eats bagels every day, now cuz she doesn't like she has bagels, like every once in a while, I just know how to Bolus for them. Like they're the day before she had a chef's out. So it's like it really is. And I try to be careful too, when I talk. This is the one thing that I it took me a minute to say, in the podcast, but I finally saw how important it was. I started telling people look, just because you've learned to Bolus for tiramisu doesn't mean you should eat it every day. Like don't confuse good blood sugars with good health.
Alex Quinn 1:05:54
Yes, yes, I wholeheartedly and adamantly agree with that. I also feel like, you know, just because you can eat the tiramisu doesn't mean that you should have a boatload of insulin floating around in your system, like those lead to long term and potentially short term like detrimental consequences. And, you know, so I can also make a tiramisu out of ingredients that don't cause me to have a boatload of insulin in my system and the potential for a major spike and then drop later,
Scott Benner 1:06:32
right. And that's where you start getting into the weeds. And it's hard to like sort through the whole thing, because I've had very respected people on here that said that, that have said that using more insulin, it's not dangerous. And they're not connected to a pharma company or anything weird like that, right. And at the same time, I mean, if you mitt unbalanced the insulin and have a whole bunch left over, when the impact of the carbs goes away, you are going to drop down really low. So that's the short term you're talking about. I also feel like the podcast does a pretty good job of describing how to not let that happen. But at the same time, I would be lying if I didn't tell you that my favorite brownies are a gluten free mix that is made by like King Arthur bakery, I like I like them better than brownies that you would make with flour. And at the same time, I mean, they're not low carb or anything like that. I'm just trying to use the example of like alternate ingredients can sure can sometimes make the same exact thing. For sure.
Alex Quinn 1:07:29
I think I think that choosing the alternate ingredients part is something that kind of gets left out of the conversation. Like when you bring up low carb, what I find most common is people hear what they can't eat. And they're like, but if you take away my bread, and my pasta and my potatoes and my cake, what's left. And you know, I had to go through that mental shift, too. And when I first went low carb, I made myself a promise. And I said, you know, my food has to taste good. It has to look good. And it has to be good for me. Otherwise, I will set myself up for failure. So how can I make these changes in such a way that I still enjoy my food? And I mean, I've been eating low carb for six years now. And I still eat like brownies and pasta, and cake and ice cream. And, you know, was Anya, I still have all of those things. I just change what goes in it a little bit
Scott Benner 1:08:31
right. Now, I don't disagree if anyone listening has ever thought like I've heard people say you just get lost when you're trying to quantify something. And there's so much I mean, you're going to be on episode like, I don't know, like 480 you know what I mean? Like, so there's so many words that have been spoken already. And when you ask somebody to like, real quick, what's that Juicebox Podcast about? I have to be honest with you. If you asked me what it was about. I can't quantify it. So I don't know how someone else would. So I hear people say that. Oh, you know, most, most often I hear people say he talks about how to use insulin so you can eat what you want. And I'm like, that's fair. And I've heard low carb people say he pushes carbs on people. And I'm like, that seems unfair. But okay. Like, I also, you know,
Alex Quinn 1:09:19
my interpretation of that question is you talk about living with diabetes.
Scott Benner 1:09:26
Yeah, that's it. I'm gonna tell you right now that I don't see any other established diabetes hub. And so I think of the podcast as a as a as its own sort of media hub, right? Like it's, that's no different than a television channel that only has one show on right. It's like any other established hub, whether it be in print online, or audio or whatever it is. I don't see anybody else having a diversity of conversations like this. They pin thing and they stay in their lane, and I get right Like I get the fear, like I understand like shark, you know, the idea of like, people are so scared not to be canceled and stuff like that. But
Alex Quinn 1:10:08
I think also they stay in their lane because a lot of people want what they're doing to be the right way to do it. And it sort of takes out of the equation that there is no like one right way to do anything because you lose your clickbait. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:10:29
that is really how it feels. I'll tell you that. The part I left out about the Facebook page thing is the my real belief. And I'm this is just me speculating. But I think that the reason most people don't want Dr. Bernstein's name, or this podcast or anything else to be left in their Facebook group is because they are very afraid that somebody will click on a link, go find something that works for them and never come back. And I just don't have that fear. Like, I am confident in what this podcast is. And by the way, if you don't need it, or want it, that's also fine with me.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:01
Yeah, for sure.
Scott Benner 1:11:02
But that confidence comes. So it's not real confidence, it's, it's I get to be confident because of how popular the podcast is. If it's a smaller group of people listening, I can honestly tell you, I might be more fervently trying to keep people in my little group. But I don't feel like that. Personally, I have to say, I don't think I would do that. I really, I really do want people to do what works for them. But I can see the draw to I started this thing, I built this thing. I you know, think of them think of a listener or reader as a customer for a second, like imagine you had a gas station. And the guy a guy pulls in, grabs the hose, and right before he's about to put the gas and the guy at the gas station across the street screams over with a bullhorn. You don't want to be at Alex's gas station. It's a bad guest. But I put all this effort to get him this close. Like you can't steal him now, like it could feel that way. But you have to have people's better interest at the core of what you're saying and just say, Alright, look, if you want to go find something different, and it works for you, then I need to be happy for you about that.
Alex Quinn 1:12:07
Yeah, for sure. That's why you're allowed to go get a second opinion. When you get a diagnosis at a doctor's office, you know,
Scott Benner 1:12:13
go figure something out. And if you and by the way, too, if you go out and you see other stuff, and it works. That's great for you, I miss you goodbye. And if you go out and see it and gone, like go back to the podcast thing. Well then Welcome back. Like I've no harm, no foul, like you don't even like you and I completely agree. I even eat steak the way you do. I don't like a lot of stuff. I just I'm gonna make a statement eat the steak. I don't need it to have stuff with it. Look,
Alex Quinn 1:12:39
I don't know if we eat steak the same way because I go to Costco and I get monster steaks and I put them on the grill and then eat that. Well, that's what
Scott Benner 1:12:47
I would do. I would go to Costco, I would get a steak. I would smoke. Yeah, I would smoke it and then I would see it. And then I would cut it open and I would put a little pink salt and some crack pepper I would eat.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:57
What kind of wood Do you like to smoke your steaks with?
Scott Benner 1:12:59
I just use a it's just like a competition blend? I don't I don't pick like a specific flavor. Not that far into it. All right, gotcha. But I might also if I'm being honest, I might make a little compound butter the day before.
Alex Quinn 1:13:14
Yeah. I went to the farmers market probably a couple of months ago. And this guy that I go to who makes hot sauces have this thing called black garlic. You know what black garlic is?
Scott Benner 1:13:27
No, but I'm listening.
Alex Quinn 1:13:28
Oh my, okay, it's a fermented garlic and basically, they just take a whole head or a bunch of them. You put it in a low heat like rice cooker, and you put the lid on top and you let it ferment in that warm environment for like a month and it takes the garlic and turns it into this sort of like caramelly like rayson sort of flavor but it's got garlic notes to it and it's it's really popular in like Asian dishes, but it's just got this like rich depth of flavor to it. That is phenomenal. And you put that in some butter and put it on a steak oh
Scott Benner 1:14:09
I made ribeyes like i i splurge I'm incredibly cheap. So I splurged on Father's Day, and I made revised last year. And I you know they came off the smoker. I sear them. I soaked them in butter as I was eating them. Like this is literally taking a year off my life and I didn't care. I was like this is the greatest thing ever. It must have been a pound of butter, like so.
Unknown Speaker 1:14:29
Oh, man,
Scott Benner 1:14:30
it was so good. It was good. Yeah, so you know, I'm right there with you. Having said that, you know I also might go make a pizza at some point and you should say whatever you want, but a low carb pizza crust. You it's not I can't tell you wouldn't be good or that it couldn't be enjoyable or whatever. But it's not pizza in in my context of what pizza is. So
Alex Quinn 1:14:54
I understand. Like, don't get me wrong, man. I grew up on eating right Little pizza. And if I could eat regular pizza and not experience terrible effects from it, trust me, I would. But I have to make choices for my long term benefit. So there's actually Um, there's a chain restaurant called blaze pizza. Have you ever heard of them? I haven't. Okay, so there's a chain restaurant called blaze pizza. And they have a keto crust. And I discovered this, thanks to Facebook. And now we do Friday night pizza night with my stepdaughter on the regular and it's great because it brought pizza back into my life. It's excellent.
Scott Benner 1:15:35
I don't have it a lot. But when I have it, I I turn it into a thing. I make dough, I cold fermented over news, and then I could you know, it's it's an event, not a natural meal. If and having said that, if if I was a person eating pizza three times a week, I would look at myself and go, I have a problem.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:52
Totally.
Scott Benner 1:15:54
Okay. Because you had no, it's all ask you. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't? And I will tell you why you're looking that I'm incredibly happy with this conversation. I thought it was.
Alex Quinn 1:16:06
Yeah, for sure. Oh, okay. So one of my things was the social aspects of eating a particular way. And this, I feel like can translate across the board, you know, be it low carb, vegan, high carb, whatever. Um, there's a lot of questions about how do you handle eating at a restaurant? How do you handle parties or holidays and this kind of thing? And that takes us back to one of the points we made earlier in this conversation about you have to not care what other people think. Yeah. Because when you stop caring what other people think then these questions to me become a moot point. You know, if I, like example, I went to a Thanksgiving holiday dinner with my partner's adopted brother's adopted family.
Scott Benner 1:17:07
Go ahead, people. I gotcha.
Alex Quinn 1:17:09
Yep. People, people I'd never met before they live out in rural Georgia. So they're not going to eat the same way that I do, you know. And I respect that. So what I did was I brought a dish that I could eat, that everybody would enjoy. And then I stuck to Turkey. And that, and I had a great time, and everything was wonderful. And like nobody even questioned what was on my plate. Yeah. And, you know, that's how I do it at parties to like, you know, I'll bring a baggie of bacon in my purse and eat that at a party if I have to, like, um, I don't know, I'm just not afraid of people thinking that it's weird to do what I'm doing or feel like I have to justify any of my choices to somebody else.
Scott Benner 1:17:57
I don't I don't get I don't get feeling that way at all about anything. Like, I here's the way I think about it. Imagine your mind right now everybody's listening. All the people in the world you'd go to with a life or death situation, how many people do you really know? You'd be like, I what you think is important, right? Yeah. A list of 100 people has not popped in everyone's head. Oh, yeah. I know all the people. There's three people who you're like, yeah, this guy is bright. That one's a little stupid, but seems to make good decisions for some reason. And, and you know, and I got a common sense, friend. And that's pretty much it. But yet, you'll let you'll let a stranger make you feel weird about how you eat, how you look how you smell who you are. I don't understand that. I just don't get there. Right. So
Alex Quinn 1:18:41
like, even my own parents, when I went low carb were like, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't care. Trust me, you know.
Scott Benner 1:18:49
And when it's the internet, I don't know, if you're all aware of how the internet works. You don't have to look at it. It's not like it's not seared in your eyeballs, you could just look away and go, Oh, look, it's not there anymore. Like you can literally make the internet disappear. It's as if it doesn't exist.
Alex Quinn 1:19:05
Right? I mean, isn't that funny how we have such like, amazing relationships with people that like, aren't in our reality, like they don't exist, it's a relationship through a person in your phone,
Scott Benner 1:19:19
everybody should get the benefit of doing something like this once and what I mean by that is like, I wrote a book one time, and it was interesting to see people review it. And and once you realize that somebody is going to like it, and somebody is not going to like it. And that doesn't make it that doesn't change what it is or how you felt about it or what your intention was. It's a freeing feeling like even with this, even with this podcast, you know, people will like joke with me all the time. Like they'll say like, I'm in my house, and I'll say to my husband, the guy on the podcast said or Scott would do it like this. And And listen, I'm not you know, I'm not Don't know, like pick the most famous person, you know, right? I'm not being spoken about all around the world with the with the same, you know, frequency as those people, but there are people saying something I said or my name out loud in their homes and almost unaware of it, you have to be able to just think, okay, whatever. Like that's good. Like, if it works for them, I'm glad if they're saying it because they don't like me, there's nothing I can do about it. Like I like to be able to have that freedom is is I wish everybody could could experience something that would force them to give up on caring about those things.
Alex Quinn 1:20:34
Yeah, for sure. Much. Well, look, I've I have, I don't know if you've experienced it to this level, but I've legitimately gotten death threats in my inbox about what I had to say about managing diabetes. And like, it rattled me for about a day. And then I blocked that person and went on about my life.
Scott Benner 1:20:58
realize they've now gone Yeah, I No one's ever threatened me. And this is not a this is not a an offer for you to start. Please don't do.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:06
Yeah, no, don't
Unknown Speaker 1:21:07
invite.
Scott Benner 1:21:09
But I mean, I I'll get an email once in a while. It's mostly about my, are you gonna make me say this out loud? It's mostly my personality, Alex, like, I get periodically, from adults with type one, generally ones who have had a tough go. I don't think it's I don't think it's very comfortable sometimes to hear a person who does not have Type One Diabetes tell you that they understand how to manage it, when you are struggling with it. And you. And I understand that I've and I do my best to do my best to make sure that people know that. But I get caught up sometimes in language like I'll sometimes I'll be doing like something with Jenny. And I'll be like, so say I have diabetes. And this happened. I'm just trying to set up a scenario. And I don't mean to say I have it like I don't. It's a colloquial way of speaking, you know, right.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:58
Yeah.
Scott Benner 1:22:00
And but yeah, it has happened and people have really horrible notes to me. And I read them and I try to take from them what I think is valuable. And then I let the rest of it go cuz
Alex Quinn 1:22:14
you can't please everybody.
Scott Benner 1:22:15
You know, like, you can't, that it is what it is right that some of my favorite reviews are the ones that are like, I love that podcast and hate that guy to me.
Unknown Speaker 1:22:26
That's funny.
Scott Benner 1:22:26
I love that so much. Because here's what it says to me that the podcast is so valuable that they're willing to listen, even though they hate me. I'm like, that's fantastic. All right, you were terrific. And the birds behind you were an added bonus. I thought,
Unknown Speaker 1:22:41
are they I love it. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:22:43
yours is the second episode that will have bird singing in the background. And people really liked it the first time so I thought it was very cool. Well, I appreciate you very much doing this. I really don't I'm sorry. We had some trouble, like sinking up at one point. But
Alex Quinn 1:23:00
well, my fault my email is full. Well, then I'm not sorry. Yeah, no. 100%.
Scott Benner 1:23:06
Actually, Alex, what I meant to say is I would appreciate if you would apologize.
Unknown Speaker 1:23:10
Well, I'm sorry. And you're welcome.
Scott Benner 1:23:12
They're excellent. Couple things First, let's thank Alex for coming on the show and talking to us about how she eats. Thank you Alex. Then let's thank Omni pod and Dexcom Oh, and you're not really supposed to use n twice but I don't feel like editing this out so end touched by type one. Checkout touched by type one.org find them on Facebook or Instagram. Look into the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox or check into those offerings from Omni pod at Omni pod comm forward slash juicebox links of course in the show notes of your podcast player worth Juicebox Podcast comm also let me remind you very quickly I mean number one out music I'll just remind you quickly if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes there diabetes pro tip calm or at Juicebox Podcast calm. Let me tell you this too. If you're looking for some really great people talking about type one diabetes, the way we talked about it on the show, you are looking for the Facebook page for the podcast. It is of course completely free. I know some places like the charger to be in their Facebook page. That seems weird to me. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. It's a private Facebook group. There are 11,000 people in it. And it's great, really is a wonderful place to talk about type one. Check it out, head on over if you're on the Facebook. Last thing I enjoyed this conversation about the way Alex eats and timely because I just saw online, somebody I would love it if Dr. Burns theme came on the podcast. Meanwhile, I don't know if Dr. Bernstein knows about this podcast or not, I wouldn't imagine he would man in his 80s. But if he did, or if somebody knew him, I have to tell you, I'd love to talk to him. It's a fascinating conversation. Even if you don't eat the way, Alex does or want to eat the way Dr. Bernstein talks about, I still think it's a great, great story. And I'd love to hear it. So if you know Dr. Bernstein. Get him on the podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe in the podcast app that you're listening in. Did I just say in twice? It's not important. I'm just saying if you're listening in a podcast app, and you're not subscribed or following the show, could you do me a solid and subscribe? If you are subscribed, thank you. That's lovely. Tell a friend, tell two friends, tell people you don't know, grab people's cell phones when they're not looking. Open up the podcast app and subscribe to my show. And then just give it back to them. I don't think that's illegal. I'm not a lawyer. So don't take my word for it. This is not like legal advice, obviously. But I would like you to do that if you could. I'm not asking you to just saying that. If you told me like if I got an email it said, Scott. I have a friend has diabetes. I picked up his phone. I opened it up, listened to all these podcasts. I was like, boom Juicebox Podcast, and I just subscribed. I'd be like, No, thank you. That's how I would respond to that email, if you like thank you. And then I say something nice. And that would probably be the end of email correspondence. This has gotten away from us. But anyway, subscribe to the podcast and a podcast player. If you listen online, it's alright with me. But come on, right. Let's get a podcast player. By the way, they should be free. I shouldn't even say a podcast player. You could listen anywhere you get audio like Spotify for example. Or Pandora do people still use that's not the point. The point is if you get audio in a thing, you can probably get the buy cast in that thing. And buy that thing. I mean an app. It's an app world, people.
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#479 Teen Talk
The Psychology of Type 1
Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss giving teens autonomy. http://erikaforsyth.com
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or their favorite podcast app.
+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello and welcome to Episode 479 of the Juicebox Podcast.
Today, Erica Forsyth this back. You know, Erica, she's the licensed Marriage and Family Therapist from California. She's been on the show a number of times, and she's here today to answer a question from one of you about something very prevalent with teens living with type one. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.
California residents if you're looking for a therapist, look no further than Erica forsyth.com. I'd like to remind you that if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes or the defining diabetes episodes, they are right here in your podcast player. But you can also find them at Juicebox Podcast comm or diabetes pro tip comm if you're listening in a podcast player, please hit subscribe or follow. Thank you very much. The T one D exchange is looking for type one adults and type one caregivers who are us residents to participate in a quick survey that can be completed in just a few moments from your computer or phone. This survey is 100% anonymous, completely HIPAA compliant, and does not require you to ever see a doctor or go to a remote site. Why you say what a survey require that? Well, because this data is actually helping people living with type one diabetes, and I wouldn't want you to get confused and think oh, this is a trial. I might have to go see a doctor, huh? No, no, you can actually help people with type one. Without being in a trial without visiting a physician. You just go to T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. Click on join our registering now, and then simply complete the survey. Once you've done that, your information, which again is completely anonymous, will be used to help other people living with type one diabetes, and it supports the podcast. Past participants like you have helped to bring increased coverage for test strips, Medicare coverage for CGM, and have broad changes in the ABA guidelines for pediatric a one c goals. Eric, I have a question here from Aaron. And she said she's trying to give her preteen son some freedom by not micromanaging everything. And he is very capable of calculating his carbs and doses knowing what to do, etc. But he gets lazy about it. It feels wrong to punish him. But if there's no consequences, then there seems like there's no incentive for him to try. Where's the line between keeping preteens accountable and not making them feel punished for having diabetes?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:19
Great, great question. And obviously, this team's and type one is it's a challenging season. And I know in my professional work, I do work with a lot of teens and families who are kind of battling this this dynamic between the what the parents wanting to offer and give some independence. And teens either asking for it. Or, or sometimes as in this question, maybe not following through the way they said they were going to. And it's it's an all around challenging, excruciating experience, sometimes for some families, and I do want to offer hope that it's a season right, it might it's not going to last forever. But I know when you're in it, it can be feeling it feels really overwhelming and stressful. I would initially in response to this question. I think trying to find ways to incentivize instead of punish if that works, and maybe you've already tried that in your family, but I would sit down with with your teen and talk about Okay, how how can we either incentivize or offer rewards I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily structured around food or which could be complicated in and of itself, but maybe maybe the child the teen wants to have a sleep over or the team wants to learn how to drive get get their permit or get their license or maybe work towards earning. You know, whether it's some kind of reward A video game. And so maybe building in incentives for okay if you keep your your blood sugar's in range. For this percentage of time this week, we are going to do X. And if you do it again next week, you're going to get Y, something that but sitting down with them and asking for their participation engagement in that this is a big, kind of like a behavior chart, so to speak, but to incentivize instead of punish, because I think if that cycle begins, where the teen is feeling like, okay, I already feel punished enough for even having type one, which can be a thought, then how come and now I'm being punished for not taking care of something I don't even want
Unknown Speaker 5:46
to have.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:48
And, and so if that is the case, I would really get allow the child to allow your team to talk about that too, if you've if they're open to it. So that's just one one thought here in terms of instead of punishing, trying, incentivizing. I'll pause there, I can keep going.
Scott Benner 6:06
I have a question. Have I ever told you about chainsaw? About what the chainsaw? No, okay, I just said chainsaw because you would have known if I said it. So I have an episode that I don't believe is out yet. And I know that sounds funny that I'm not certain if it's out yet or not. But I'm a one man show over here. Okay, so I'm a little busy. woman has a teenage son, who really you know, wants to graduate from high school and start a business cutting down trees. And the kid wants a chainsaw. chainsaw is kind of expensive. And while we're talking, she also brings up that she can't get him to Pre-Bolus. And I said, and this is important to remember when you hear me talk that I have no training whatsoever. But what I said was, Well, listen, let me ask you a question. He'll never hear this. Are you gonna get him the chainsaw? And she goes, yeah. And I said, Okay, I said, Why don't you just give him $1? Every time he Pre-Bolus. And tell him Look, I know that sounds like it might be forever, but it's really not. If this sauce, $400, you can Pre-Bolus three times a day, in 30 days, you know, you could be a quarter of the way to your chainsaw, and the money will pile up quicker, and I'll pay you to priests, I'll pay you to Pre-Bolus a snack like you might end up Pre-Bolus and seven times a day. And and I said just I make you're going to spend the money anyway. And that became important to me, because she didn't have a ton of money. He didn't mean she couldn't just go like, leave in a golden trail of dollar bills around the house for the kid. I said, if it's money you're going to spend Anyway, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, let's repurpose that for this. And and I said to me, that's, I mean, the kid doesn't want anything more than that in the whole world, right? And I said, so if you have to trick a 16 year old into learning to Pre-Bolus, then who cares? Because after you get to that the cost of the chainsaw, he really will have done it long enough for to form a habit, I would think, did I give that person bad advice? Or do I do okay, no, I
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:04
think it's great. And I think what's important is what the carrot that you're dangling, has to be something that they are longing for. Yeah, it's not just like, Can I go to the movies or whatever? Like, I think it has to unless you want to start small. You know, some people do want to have smaller incentives. And they they get that kind of immediate gratification, which is important in the teenage years to like, they want to know that what they're doing, they're going to be rewarded for a Ross, what's the point? So some, some teens can hold out and say, Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to save and save and save. And I'm going to be incentivized by this, this chainsaw. I love it. So really sitting down with your teen and saying, Look, what is something and you probably already even know is the parent at that point. What is it that they are really longing for? And it could be something
Unknown Speaker 8:58
that they
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:59
say what is something you're really wanting, but you think you're never going to be able to get or afford? Or ever made to like something that's really thrilling to could be helpful? Yeah, everyone's great.
Scott Benner 9:10
You got to stop and give the horse some of the carrot. You can't just expect it. Yeah, get right. And to be honest, I see a lot of parenting like this, like you're just constantly mentioning things are gonna happen in the future. Even if you just set them up as psychological payoffs. Like, you know, if you do this, this is going to happen, that needs to happen then, you know, like, because, you know, I have to like just to kind of divert for a second. My son's played baseball, like his whole life, like he really has, and since he was three years old, right, right. As he was turning four, he started playing organized baseball, and he still plays now and he's 21 organized. And I used to have this horrible feeling while I was little, that a big a big moment never came to him. He was never up in a big moment. He was never like, and when he was 11, he caught the last ball of a championship game. And I'm telling you, there was a bigger smile on his face than I'd ever seen. And it had something to do with the fact that that game felt more important that it had some, you know, gravitas attached to it. And that he felt like he's the one that ended that. And so sometimes you got to get paid back, like he played just as well on all the games before that, but he never got the feeling that he got out of that one scenario. And so you got to get that feeling once in a while. Or the incentive to keep trying is harder and harder to cultivate,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:38
I think. Right, right. Because as as a teen, particularly, you're not thinking about the future. You're not saying oh, well, if I don't Pre-Bolus now, yeah, I'm gonna have a high after I eat. Yeah. But I'm not thinking about oh, maybe I'll have long term complications when I'm 40 or 30. Whatever.
Scott Benner 10:56
Well, it's their brains work that way. There wouldn't be any teen pregnancy cuz, cuz I cuz as an adult, you know, how scared you are when you think you're gonna get somebody pregnant? But no one, no one feels that way. When they're 17 for some reason.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:10
There's, it's impulsive. And you know, instant gratification. Yeah. And I think they're, yes. So allowing them to receive some sort of reward, whatever that is, if you're working towards that, if they're needing to incentivize, I think it's important to do that. Yes. Well,
Scott Benner 11:28
I am glad that I did not lead that person astray. Yeah, no, it's good. Sometimes I'm just like, I get done. Sometimes, like I say, a lot of stuff. I wonder if it's all okay. But I felt really comfortable about that. And it was one of those things. Actually, that was one of those great episodes where we were just talking through a thing. Like she didn't have any reason to come on. She's having like some sort of like a thing. And I was like, come on, and we'll just talk about it, like two people on the phone together. And let's see what we can come up with, you know. Okay, so I have a question here from Bridget, it says, I'd like to understand how to foster a growing independence in a teenager while still keeping a safety net. And I imagine, as you do, I guess, the safety net, she means is the Health Net of safety. Not getting too low or too high or? Yes, yeah. Okay. Yes.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:14
So I think it's important to understand that it's a great and very common question as well, that what what teams are going through, and we might have all have a general idea that, you know, they want to be independent, they feel like they're, they know everything they know what's best for them. One analogy that I've read in a book years ago, and recently came across from a book called the yard sticks, is it talks about the analogy of the particularly like the 12 1314 year old, and the significance of their room in the house, like it becomes if they don't have their own room yet, or if they do have their own room, their own personal bedroom becomes very significant that they get to decorate, they get to become kind of the, the king or queen, so to speak of their of their territory. But it's significant to think about, that their bedroom is still a part of the house, right? So they're saying, I'm here, but I'm separate. And, or I'm here, but look who I am now. So they're able to kind of exercise some authority control independence over who they are. And they get to kind of make all those choices, right. But with that, then as a parent, you get to have these conversations with your team saying, Okay, if you are, if you are kind of owning your territory of your bedroom, I'm going to be handing over some responsibility, I'm not going to be coming in there and cleaning up your room or doing your laundry. So with that sense, along with their increased freedom, and their need for freedom. And these years, also comes the responsibility. And I think that is the struggle, right, as a teen as they're trying to create their own identity is how do I how do I balance this? Is the team thinking or not thinking about acting? Well, at the time, how do I balance this freedom and responsibility. And also just kind of thinking through and I'll apply this to type one in the second hair, that a parent, they are they shouldn't be afraid to knock on the child's door, right? The bedroom door, but it should be allowed. And so you're kind of shifting slightly, this locus of control, right? If the bedroom is off limits, the parent is knocking, and the child's going to let them in. But you're not relinquishing parental total parental authority, but you're shifting that locus of control. And ultimately, teens, they want to talk to their parents, they really do. And parents want to talk to their teens, but they really don't know how. And so I think going back before addressing the type one I think it might be really significant for for you as the parent and caregiver to understand what it is They are actually going through as a teen to not relinquish parental authority, but to shift some of that control over to them. And then they're you might need to initiate that conversation. And I think remembering that as teens, they just want to be heard. And so I would strongly suggest that parents say little, and listen a lot. And if you do need help in that department of just kind of going back to the basics of re establishing a relationship with your teenager, a really excellent book is by Adele Faber and Elaine Maas lish. The book is titled, how to talk so kids will listen and listen, so kids will talk. Again, that's by Faber and mazlish. So that if you are finding that you are having this battle with your teen around type one, I would maybe take a step back first is the parent and say, Okay, how can I enter my child's world through their lens as a teenager? So that's just kind of my first my first thought.
Unknown Speaker 16:04
Can I add? I can pause? Yeah, go ahead. No,
Scott Benner 16:07
I want to add there that I think I found for myself, I guess I should say that my recollection of my young life is probably not 100%, reminiscent of what it was actually like, or what I was thinking back then. So when you're kids going through a thing, it's so easy to think like, Oh, I remember this, like, but you probably don't, you probably don't really remember what it was like to be that age. And to have those feelings. Um, it's funny, you brought it up as an example about the room. Because when COVID started, and I started noticing a Kelly and I both started noticing art and going a little stir crazy. Arden said, I want to, you know, I was thinking I'd like to redo my room. And there's that first reaction really is nothing wrong with the room you have now and I would like to keep the money I have in my pocket, if you don't mind. But But yeah, but fair enough. She's older now. And she wanted to redo it. And we we let her repaint we let her replace her bed. And she wanted like a table with chairs. And she set it up. It's very much like a studio apartment now and not like a kid's bedroom. She's
Unknown Speaker 17:14
Yeah, How old is she?
Scott Benner 17:15
She's gonna be 17 this summer.
Unknown Speaker 17:17
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Scott Benner 17:19
Yeah, it's got a little round table with four chairs around it and a lamp which she said when my friends are over and we eat, we can eat around this table. And there it's easy as an adult to listen to that and go I bought a table. It's downstairs.
Unknown Speaker 17:31
Dining? Yeah.
Scott Benner 17:34
Well, we were like, okay, and she said in the bed takes up too much space, I'm gonna get a smaller bed. And your first thought is, well, you have like a double bed. You want to go to a single. And wouldn't that be less comfortable. But that's not what she cared about what she cared about was making more space. She got rid of her dressers and put a system inside of her her closet and moved all of her clothes into her closet. And and she made it exactly the way she wanted it. If I showed you Arden's room, you'd say it doesn't look anything like any kid's bedroom that you've ever seen. And she loves it. And I, the way I can tell is that every couple of months when I'm in there, she'll make, she'll just, she'll comment a little bit, ask me a question. Do you still like the color I picked? I said, I do. It's great. How do you like it? She's like, it's good. I was like, Okay, he's still like that I took up the carpet. I said, I think it's nice, it's easier to clean. What about you know, I hear the noise from downstairs a little more now. And, and just to let her have that experience, it was a really big deal. And, you know, bonus, it took months. So it can write a capper focused on something she was, she was like the project manager of her room redesign, you know, and what ends up costing us in the end, not very much, you know, it was good,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:52
right? And how much, you know, like we were talking about earlier, like authority and agency that she feel over her life of being able to do that, like what and you know, it's such that's an excellent example of finding those opportunities to relinquish control. I mean, with within, right, then you probably had a budget and you had some probably constraints around that. We did, but you said Go Go for it. Yep. Right.
Scott Benner 19:17
Within this amount of money, you can do whatever you want. Right, right. Also, what it led to then, was I used to separate her clothing. I don't fold the kids clothes, but I'll lay them in like flat piles so they don't get wrinkled and give them to them. But ardens would sit in my room. And then once she had more space in her room, I was like, Oh, well, I can sit in her room now. So I know I take it and I put it in this spot. And I've noticed her being more diligent about putting her clothes away, and it didn't happen all at once. It took a lot of time for her to go Okay, I guess no one's gonna put this away. It's on me. Then she's got to find time in her schedule. Then she got to find the energy to actually do it and then she's gonna have to care about it. enough to do it. That took months and I, I think very fervently about parenting, that my job is really to repeat the same thing over and over again without sounding annoyed until somebody figures it out. And, and that's sort of how I saw this thing. Like I didn't, I didn't say, hey, look, you're now in charge of this, take care of it. You know, do it right now. And if you don't do it the first time, I'm gonna yell and scream at you. I just kept piling the clothes up. And one day, I think the pile fell over. And she's like, dude, I guess I got to do this. And right, that's how it went.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:29
Well, and that's, that is like, such a great example of she was going through that struggle of like, Okay, I've got increased freedom in some areas. But now I've got this responsibility of putting my laundry away. So she kind of went through that struggle until it became like, okay, it's bothering me, I'm going to show some responsibility and put it away of my own things, right?
Scott Benner 20:48
Yeah, it is unreasonable to expect it because you tell somebody to do something, they're suddenly going to shift everything in their brain that tells them what to do and just start doing it. It doesn't, you know, things don't work that way, I don't think.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:00
Right. And I think then, applying that to the type one, we were in lies the fear factor of oh my gosh, okay, my, my teen wants his independence wants the freedom in management, and making choices and you know, all of it, but they're, but they're going through this struggle, this identity struggle of, they don't quite have full responsibility. And yet they're wanting to freedom, right? And so,
Scott Benner 21:34
I was gonna say, and when they do it wrong, it's not a pile of clothes falling over, it's a blood sugar going to 55 or 355. And then how do you manage the the slowed necessity of transition with the immediate need of safety and health.
Just gonna jump in here real quickly and remind you of three things. First thing, p one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. If you have type one, or you're the caregiver of someone who who has type one, and you live in the United States, this is something you can do in just a few minutes. That will immeasurably help other people living with Type One Diabetes. You can do it from your phone, from your tablet, from your computer, from your sofa, you don't even have to get up. Go take the quick survey. The information that you leave behind will be anonymous, HIPAA compliant, and help a lot of people living with Type One Diabetes, T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. also want to remind you that if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes, they begin in Episode 210, your podcast player. You can also find them at Juicebox Podcast calm or at diabetes pro tip calm at diabetes pro tip calm you'll also find the defining diabetes series. And of course, Erica for Saif Eric is available to California residents at Erica Forsyth comm links in the show notes. Links at Juicebox. Podcast calm. Now let's get back to Erica. The slowed necessity of transition with the immediate need of safety and health
Unknown Speaker 23:28
there Yeah,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:29
therein lies the struggle for the parent, child and parent teen relationship, right where you as the parent as a caregiver are fearful. So you see that the numbers going up or down. And then the next thought is fear. And you want to you know, you want to protect your child, as a caregiver, you want to do everything you can to protect your child no matter what age. And I think going back to Okay, is this is this a one off? example? Is has my team demonstrated kind of general patterns of independence, I think I think just kind of like with anything, you need to let them earn your trust. And so maybe it's okay. You know, Bobby is saying as a 14 year old or whatever age but around 14, he's saying he wants to be able to look at his numbers and Pre-Bolus without consultation, right? Like that's what they ultimately Well, they want to be able to make decisions independently, right? So you say okay, we are, we are going to give you this opportunity for us to earn trust in you that you can do this. And so you try it for you start with whatever. And you can chart it out to I've done this with families were like okay, we're gonna try this out. You're gonna do it on Monday afternoon, and then we're going to do Wednesday afternoon and then we're going to increase kind of the frequent the time, the length of time and the frequency to say okay, you did great job. No Knowing that just like as caregivers, there are going to be, you know, mishaps. So I think, offering them these opportunities to demonstrate that they can do it. So then you're saying, hey, I want to I want you help me to trust you, right? You need to earn the trust, just like with anything like with driving, taking other, you know, kind of adult life decisions, and building in a plan with them. Yeah. And having their input i think is always significant of like, what do you think feels fair? Should we let you make decisions for all day on Monday? Or should it just be for dinner?
Scott Benner 25:34
What do you think about when to step in? Because, so I'm a long Yeah, I'm a long range guy. Like, I'm, I'm definitely one of those people. Like, if I'm gonna rob a bank, I'm not gonna do it for five years, and I'm really going to get it right. And so, you know, during this pandemic thing, there's been times where Arden's in a room, you know, doing classes in the morning, and I'm in here working. And once in a while she's here, she walks by doesn't say anything, I see her go downstairs, she comes back up with a arm full of food. And I look at her, I go, Hey, and she goes, I got it. And she doesn't got it. Like, I know she thinks she does. But she'll never Pre-Bolus enough, right? Because she's 16. And so I go, okay. And then she goes, and I think of that is like, I'm building trust. She knows I trust her, she'll take care of it. But then there's a moment where if it doesn't go, Well, Bolus wise, I kind of roll up to her and I go, Hey, that Bolus was pretty good. I said, I think it just maybe wasn't enough here. We're gonna have to add a little more now. No big deal, this will be fine. And I let it go. And I let it go. And I let it go. And I've been doing that for six or eight months now. And with the long range goal of her understanding, oh, I am trying but it's not quite working. But it doesn't seem to be too bad. And then it kind of culminated into this morning where she wanted Cinnamon Toast Crunch where we didn't have time to Pre-Bolus. And I mean, it's now been an hour since I told you that. So it's been so long ago that I told you about this in a different episode of the podcast. Okay. Yeah. And and Arden's blood sugar right now, if I told you that she had cinnamon toast crunch, without more than a seven minute Pre-Bolus and then I did not measure the milk or the cereal. What would you guess her blood sugar is right now
Unknown Speaker 27:17
that you didn't that you didn't measure that? She did? No, nobody
Scott Benner 27:20
measured it. It just got poured into a bowl, and then poured into the ball. If you had to guess in most situations, what do you think our blood sugar would be an hour later?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:28
Oh, I would probably say in the to 200 300. Yeah, it's 118.
Scott Benner 27:35
So yeah, but I that. But I wanted her to see that there was a way to Bolus something that she thought of as vicious on her blood sugar without such a Pre-Bolus. So So now in my mind, she's got a connection, she knows she Pre-Bolus is but not enough when she's on her own, and that it needs to be fixed. But today, she gets to see no Pre-Bolus that doesn't need to get fixed. I just want her to see. While there's a lot of possibility in here, maybe this isn't as strict as I think it is. And maybe this old man knows something he should be telling me that I maybe should be listening to like, And to me, that's a long term plan because I could have walked up to her and told her that but I don't know what good that's gonna do. Anyway,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:19
so what kind of Yeah, so teaching, you're, you're you're teaching, you're modeling, and you're you're giving her opportunities to see different variables to write, I think that's helpful. Like you can, within reason, and if you're able to manage, eat quickly, or you know, not waiting for whatever your Pre-Bolus, designated tinus. And then she gets to gain that independence over time. That's it, and you guys have a great relationship to trust. It sounds
Scott Benner 28:46
like you know, and I haven't had to give away any of her long term health to accomplish this hurry one still, or a one C is still in the fives. So it's not it's not like that's the one thing that I see people say that always like, turns the screw in my heart the wrong way. It's that, well, they want to take over now. So okay, they're a once he's gonna go from six to nine. But at least they're figuring out I'm like, I don't that doesn't seem like a good idea to me. And there's gotten that me seeing other people do that made me think long and hard about like, how are we going to do this transition without that happening? And I don't know that I'm going to be successful. Yeah, but I'm just these are the steps I've taken so far. And I yeah, I mean, and our relationship is good. I mean, but she's still 17 like, she still you know, says horrible things to me and treats me like I'm a moron. You know, sometimes, and, and I still like, you know, go off the handle sometimes. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like, you know, like, everything seems irritating. I'm a person too. And I didn't exactly grow up. Well, if you're listening to this podcast into this many episodes, you realize I'm almost feral. Like it's it's weird that I ended up even okay. So, uh, you know, anyway, that that's pretty much it. I think that's smart. Well, I
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:03
think I think you were asking you had brought up, you know, when when do you intervene, right? So to prevent either the increase, you know, the raise in your agency or to prevent, you know, the long term complications, I think going back to always asking inviting your team into the conversation of like, okay, on Wednesday, we're going to allow you, or, you know, we're going to give you this opportunity to earn our trust. Now, what? together, let's determine what number Am I good? Okay, am I going to intervene? And getting to and you write it down, and you have that agreement with your team to say, okay, is it gonna be 150? With the arrows, you know, diagonally? Or is it gonna be whatever it is? Right, like, it'd be very clear if you're on a CGM, is it?
Unknown Speaker 30:53
You know, now we're in 20 minutes
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:55
isn't an hour at the time, the arrow position and the number? Yeah. And then you say, okay, and I'm going to text and then what? And then really clearly as inviting the teams, okay, what is our text message going to be like, if they're at school, and one thing is interesting, but I have heard that you've kind of noted during COVID, teams have have done a little bit better. And this is not obviously, across the board, but from what I've heard at home, because you can just kind of you can all manage it together. But you also don't have that pure factor. And so if you are finding as your teams are re entering into school, and you know, so called normal life, and you're seeing maybe a little bit more of this, either defiance, or desire to be independent, or forgetting to Bolus number one, that's, that's just normal. And then number two, kind of inviting your team back into that conversation of like, Okay, this is how we were doing during COVID. I know, it's not always going to be this way. But how can we how can we kind of reestablish what was happening at home and create kind of those expectations and boundaries, but it is, it is a constant challenge. And well, I don't have I have two little girls. I don't have teens yet. But I've worked with a lot of teens professionally and I know what I was like as a teen. And it wasn't always pretty. And so I just I, I cheerlead you, and support you. And just remembering that it's not going to last forever. That is important, too.
Scott Benner 32:29
It is hard when you're younger, because everything I mean, as a younger parent, like everything feels like now is forever. And it really isn't like I you know, I'm almost 50 and I have a 21 year old son and I guess I might be young tab a 21 year old a little bit but I you know, you you look back and you're like, Oh, I remember being so worried about that. And it didn't end up mattering. But it didn't matter in the moment. It just, it doesn't matter now. Like there's a there's a now there's micro and macro to everything. And there's there's what's important now and what later you'll be like, Oh, I guess not nice. That wasn't really important. I can't believe I spent so much time on that. Do you have enough time to talk about kids burning out on technology in this episode? Or do you have to go
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:12
Yes, yes, no, we can. And I before we transition into that, I was just gonna I was thinking I just listened to the episode of the three girls in the Cayman Islands, which was just fabulous. And it made me think of you know, this here they are, they could be feeling isolated on the island as as a type one but yet they have each other and the significance of for your teen if they really are struggling with that, you know why me I feel so isolated I just want to be like my friends. If they are open to it, you know I do encourage you to kind of maybe their outreach through your your endo or whatever your treatment team is to see if you can connect your team with other teams whether and now with you know, every everyone's very comfortable of with remote and virtual correspondence. To integrate that into your team's life whether it's just a phone call or a zoom or FaceTime, whatever it is just to kind of decrease that sense of of isolation and like an I don't feel normal type feeling right. And I want to be like my parents I just that was just my life. What
Scott Benner 34:17
wasn't interesting to see the three of them they you know, you hear kids like I just want to be like my friends. There's these three girls living on this island with not that many people and they are just like their friends.
Unknown Speaker 34:27
They have so beautiful. Yeah,
Scott Benner 34:29
yeah. Yeah. wasn't a great too, that they were too young to feel trapped. Like when I was like, No, how would you get away like and then I like a ramped it up. I was like if Godzilla came How would you get away and they're like, I don't know. Like, they don't even think of it as that way. me as an adult. I'm like you are trapped in a tiny rock in the middle of the ocean. You're gonna die. If they didn't see it that way. They were really lovely. Actually. Yeah, yeah, I enjoyed that a lot. Okay, so, you know, Heather's like how? Yeah, she says, How do you help your child work through burnout. She says she has a nine year old who was diagnosed just over a year. ago. They're using you know CGM and pomp for almost a year. But she feels like they've hit the wall with technology. I hear people say this a lot. I have to admit, I don't know that I understand it. And because then they say, I think we might need to take a break. And even though As parents, we don't want to,
Unknown Speaker 35:18
yes, yes.
Scott Benner 35:19
I'm always weirded out by that, like, so I I'm a bad person to ask because I really have a, I really have a 1978, northeast version of an answer for this, which is kids don't get to make medical decisions in my house.
Unknown Speaker 35:31
Right. Right, right.
Scott Benner 35:34
Because I will always like what else you're gonna put the 14 year old in charge of paying the mortgage, like, you know, they're 14. But right, what's the rest of it that I don't that I don't think about?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:45
Well, I Well, two thoughts. Yeah. For number one, personally, I have felt that way. I actually was on, I did what we used to call just shots without a deal MDI, I gave myself shots and took my blood sugar, a finger pricks for the kind of first third of my so called diabetes career. And then I transitioned to a pump and college. And again, I'm not giving medical advice, you want to do this with consultant, you know, if you ever decide to do this, consult with your doctor first. But I remember feeling like I just wanted to take the pump off. And if I did that, and I would say, Oh, I'm gonna take the pump off for a week, and I'm gonna go back to injections. And I and I did consult with my doctor, and they told me how to do it giving, you know, do the lantis this amount and do this, you know, I was taking I think regular at the time. And I didn't even last a week, because it was so irritating, to like have to be constantly giving myself injections. And the same and so I probably put the pump back on within the next day or two. Because I'm like, you know what, I'm kind of irritated by having my pump. Because really, it's just like, it's the thing that's on your body that can get annoying, and I get it. And so you feel like mentally if I remove this pump, I'm not gonna have to be thinking about it. Maybe my type one is much. But then then you're having to constantly go back to what you used to be doing. And it's kind it's irritating, too. And I had this experience with the Dexcom or the CGM. I have a Dexcom. And I don't know when this was, but I think I think my time had lapsed, it was 10 days, I was gonna remove it. I'm like, You know what? I just I kind of want to have a break mentally from having it on wherever it was on my body. And I'm gonna do finger pricks, and I did not last through a full 24 hours. So I'm like, What am I thinking? Like, I don't know, I'm so used to knowing my trends and where I am. And I'm having to fingerprick you know, and I would do it 10 or 15 times a day like pretty. It's a lot, right. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to get the CGM back on and so I don't know again. only do this with the with the support of your doctor. But it might be worth trying. Because then your child might wonder like, Oh my gosh, it's so much easier having these my pump or CGM on me. Anyway, that's my first. Sorry. Go ahead.
Scott Benner 38:14
any correlation? I'm glad you had a personal experience with it because it makes it so much more real. But is there any correlation to you know, when you see somebody break up with somebody? They're like, Oh, this guy's my problem. And then three days later, you're like, turns out he wasn't why I was upset now. I miss him. And you know, like, Is there any of that? Like, is that true? That's called transference in the business. Right? Like, were you mad about one something? You put it on something else? Yeah, every married guy right now listening is laughing their ass off. They're like, Oh, is that what that's called? That's what that's called what happens to me is it? But But yeah, like that, that idea of like, I'm just like, I'm irritated. And I'm aware of this must be my problem. And, and I just I'm so thrilled that that's what you said. Because, yeah, go ahead, break up with me. And I'll wait over here. For you to realize maybe that wasn't a good idea. Like maybe your pump is just sitting in a drawer go and she'll be back. You know, like,
Unknown Speaker 39:10
absolutely, yeah, yeah. Wait, yeah, she let's just count down. Yeah,
Scott Benner 39:14
I'll take a break. She'll be back soon. Don't you worry. She doesn't like, that makes so much sense to me. So don't fight it.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:22
I mean, that would be my suggestion. And because I think there is something too, though. Yes, it is the like, Okay, I'm frustrated with like, it's, it's can be annoying having type one, right, like you're having to think about all the time. And then you have this visual reminder. And it can get caught on things and all you know, all the and it can fall off. And that can be frustrating. But I think ultimately, once you take a break from all of the incredible technology that we do have and you go back to, you know, the injections in the fingerprick. So you kind of realize, wow, I still have type one. And doing all this is is more frustrating and irritating than actually just having the pump on or the CGM on but then That's kind of a nice thing, because then you're like, Oh, I'm so grateful for this. The thing that I couldn't wait to rip off, I go back and say, Oh, I'm so grateful for this CGM. Yeah. So it's kind of this beautiful process and allowing that to happen i think is okay. Given you know, your own know if you feel you feel safe doing it right, yeah.
Scott Benner 40:19
When one day Kelly kicks me out, right? I know that like a month or two later she's gonna be walking around is like dust bunnies collect around her feet. And she'll go, Oh, I didn't know he was taking care of that. Right? I should be like, Oh, I wonder what else he was doing? I have to tell her if she's ever listened to this? Where do you find out all this stuff I do that you don't have to do? You know, like, it's um, and I do think that about the technology as well. And you made me think a little bit about I know, we're wrapping up. But you made me think a little bit about people who have other medical issues where they can't get away from their technology ever. And it made me realize how lucky you are to have diabetes, that there is an alternative treatment method where you could at least experience it without and by the way, for people who don't use the tech who are doing fine. I think that's terrific. This is just Oh, yeah, this is for people who this was specifically the idea about burnout about technology about like, Oh, I have to get away from this or it's bothering me. But maybe it is just a reminder of the fact that you have diabetes, and you're just going to find a different reminder when those are gone and make your maintenance more, you know, heavier. We're Yes. cumbersome somehow.
Unknown Speaker 41:33
Yes, yes.
Scott Benner 41:34
And you said, I'm sorry, Jeff, another thing you want to say about that? Did I cut you off in the middle of getting a no?
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:39
No, I think? Yeah, I think that that was kind of the gist of it. And allowing, allowing your child to be angry at the technology is okay. Because ultimately, we know, we probably are just angry and frustrated and sad about having the LMS. And so sometimes it's easier to be angry at the things that we need to take care of ourselves. And to say, gosh, you know what, allowing, allowing for those emotions, and giving your child space to maybe they're not verbalizing it, but they're saying it by like, please rip this thing off with me. It's that's okay. And then just to kind of give space to that. Yeah.
Scott Benner 42:22
And they'll likely get back to it.
Unknown Speaker 42:24
Yes,
Scott Benner 42:24
I think so. Because you realize that, that the anger doesn't go away. And then you need to, then that's a new thing to address.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:32
But so right. Right. Right, then that you allow that whether it's through your conversation with your parents, or or therapist, or whomever your support group, yeah, let that come out.
Scott Benner 42:42
Yeah. And it? I'll tell you, it exists. And I think we'll probably answer this question another time when we record but it exists at ages that you don't expect, because there was a time when Arden was maybe five or six, where she told me just out of the blue, and I would have told you that Arden does great with diabetes, I don't see her thinking about it too much. Like all the, you know, when people are like kids are so brave, I always think like, they're not really brave, they just don't have another choice. You know, like there's a difference between bravery and not having a choice. bravery is, you know, you're across the street and a car blows up and you go pull somebody out of it, even though there are other people that are helping and, and not having choices, you're in the car, and you need to get out anyway, you know, like that. There's right there. And so she says to me, we have a friend who has a child who's I don't even know what the correct term is, but has some some mental deficiency that that impacts a child's life. And she said, I'd rather be him than me. And she was like six or seven. I was like, why? And she goes because I can die from this. He's not gonna die from that. And I was like, wow, I did not know that my seven year old had the bat grasp of all this. And so and so it's easy to say kids don't understand deeper things. But I think they do. And I think they're good at hiding it. And I think you could end up seeing that as bravery. So just because they seem right doesn't mean they don't need support, and they don't have deep understandings of the situation that they're in.
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:19
That's how I feel, right? Yeah. So we often say you know, that children are resilient and we've been talking a lot about that right through COVID and that they are going to transition and be okay. But underneath Yes, they are resilient, and they can persevere, but they still can have that. That sadness underneath their resilience and that's that's okay. Yeah,
Scott Benner 44:38
just because your eight year old doesn't turn to heroin doesn't mean they're not under pressure. It just seriously because that's what you're talking right. Yeah, right. resilient because they don't have another choice and you're in charge of their life and they're stuck in a room like you don't mean like they're not. If you if you let an eight year old out on the street and put too much pressure on it. It I can't believe I said it him or her. It they'll fall apart just like a 45 year old would have that situation. They just don't have the opportunity all the time. And that's why I'm imagining. You see kids internalize, internalize, internalize, and then it turns to something much more drastic when they lash out Finally,
Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:16
is that fair? Right? Yes. Yeah, I wouldn't know. And maybe they have the the ability, the develop, they've developed to a place where they can identify and express you know, their emotions, then that will come out. Yeah. Well, Erica, thank
Scott Benner 45:31
you very much for doing this with me again, I am having a great time, I think of you as emotional journey. so
Unknown Speaker 45:38
wonderful. I appreciate that. Thank you guys. Seriously.
Scott Benner 45:48
Hey, huge thanks again to Erica for coming back on the show. She'll be back again. So look out for it in upcoming episodes. You can find her at Erica forsyth.com. You can find the diabetes pro tips, the defining diabetes series, and so much more at Juicebox Podcast calm or diabetes pro tip calm. And please take just a few minutes out of your day to go to T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box and fill out the survey. All they're asking you to do fill out the survey and your answers will help others living with Type One Diabetes, you have to have type one or be the caregiver of type one. And be a United States citizen. Head over there now support the Juicebox Podcast support people living with Type One Diabetes. T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with more episodes of the Juicebox Podcast.
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#478 DKA on a Plane
Jen's daughter has the most harrowing type 1 diagnosis story that I've ever heard.
You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.
+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 478 of the Juicebox Podcast.
On today's episode, I'll be speaking with Jennifer, she's the mom of a child with Type One Diabetes, living overseas, I guess, overseas, if you live here, if you live there, then I'm over. That's not the point. They don't live in America. And the diagnosis story that she's going to share with us about her child is in fact, the most harrowing that I've ever heard. And that's saying something. I think you're going to enjoy this episode. The conversation is terrific. She's terrific, great conversation, but my goodness, wait, wait, wait, are you here? While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin.
Real quick, if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip series, they're available at diabetes pro tip comm where they begin at Episode 210 right there in your podcast player. If you're listening in the podcast player, please follow and subscribe.
This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. And by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, you can find out if you're eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. And to get started with the Dexcom, je six or to learn more, you're going to want to go to dexcom.com Ford slash juicebox. When you're finished with all that, head on over to touched by type one.org and see what they're up to. They're also on Facebook, and Instagram. links to these and all of the sponsors are available right there in the show notes of your podcast player. And at Juicebox. Podcast calm.
Jen 2:16
Hi, my name is Jen. I am the mom of two girls. One is three and one is six. And Nora is the one who has type one diabetes.
Scott Benner 2:26
And how old is Nora? She said she's the sex. Okay, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 2:30
Well, she'll
Jen 2:31
be seven here in a few months. So Gosh, I don't know where time goes.
Scott Benner 2:34
Tell me when she was diagnosed.
Jen 2:36
She was diagnosed when she was three and a half. So we've been doing this for for almost three years now.
Scott Benner 2:45
Isn't it funny? You've been doing it for like two and a half years, you know, like three years. 510 feels like a while now.
Jen 2:51
I know. Right? Like at one point, it felt like we couldn't get through the day. Like it was just it took forever to understand. And then it and then it didn't then it's just now it's part of life.
Scott Benner 3:01
When did that happen? The changeover between this is untenable to it's part of my life.
Jen 3:08
Probably when we got good at it, and by good. I mean, we understood what was happening. So we didn't always like the results. But like we understood what, why why we were why what was happening, what was good.
Scott Benner 3:21
Isn't that an interesting distinction?
Jen 3:24
Yeah, it is. It's a big distinction because I like I don't freak out when she's high. And I know why. Or she's low. And I know why. Whereas before it was, I don't know, there's I feel like there's a lot of common phrases like, Well, you know, it's diabetes and and what can you do? And, and, and I felt that way, I was totally there in the beginning and through through much of their beginning of it and, and no, yeah, there might be moments. I'm like, wow, I wonder what this could be. And eventually I'll be able to figure out I might not know in the moment, but I'll know. Eventually, it was a growth. Oh, she's getting sick. Oh, she did have a few extra skills at school today that I didn't know about or whatever. You know,
Scott Benner 4:11
I think it gets exciting when you look at the you have a Dexcom g six and you're using tandem pump. Is that right?
Unknown Speaker 4:17
That's right.
Scott Benner 4:19
I'm excited when I look down at the CGM and I look at the line and in a split second. My brain goes Oh, that pumps lights going bad. And yeah, I actually know what that looks like.
Jen 4:33
I'm getting there. Yeah, this is um, I don't know. I feel like it was there a while ago and this whole lockdown. We are actually in Amman, Jordan. And so we've had some pretty strict lockdowns over here. And the inactivity has been shockingly difficult for us to see her. See her change her activity level changes and her blood sugar. Just kind of revolts are getting sitting and not going outside as much.
Scott Benner 5:04
So she needs more insulin, I'm guessing for the sedentary lifestyle.
Jen 5:09
Yeah, she does. But she also then has a lot more weird lows like so that the minute she does something that's exciting. And at this point, even online learning is exciting. Well, I mean, it's great. Like she's in first grade, they're doing some fantastic stuff. But the minute she stops doing whatever is exciting, whether it's seeing a friend for a few minutes or being online, and she just drops, like she just drops, her body just stops. And so she's having some weird lows lately, too. So in addition to some highs, because of the extra insulin she's needed. She's having lots of drops that we hadn't seen in quite some time,
Scott Benner 5:46
I would expect and guess that you're using so much extra probably basil, and maybe even boluses for that, that inactivity, because our bodies not exercising and not moving and not using the insulin more efficiently. That it's I wonder how to like put it into a picture I guess. But it to me, it's the difference between football in the in the 40s and football today. Meaning if you if you look at offensive lineman, this is going to be a strange thing. But do you watch football? Or have I lost you already? Yeah, he got me out here. Okay, so, so offensive lineman. Back in the day, we're just these big, dopey guys who stood up and we're a wall of life, and they just kind of stood there and you couldn't get around them. And now everyone's such an athlete, right? Like they're, they're carved down to like bone and muscle. And they're, you know, they're they do things now that are absolutely crazy. And I think of that sort of similarly, meaning that when you're very sedentary and kind of doughy and slow, you just need this ton of insulin to hold down your blood sugar, this just big lazy, like flop like a weighted blanket on top of you of insulin. But when you start moving, everything starts being more efficient. And now suddenly, your body doesn't need all of that insulin that's in there, and then you slam down low. And it's
Jen 7:16
totally Yeah, I get that. Except for I'm talking about, like, cuz we were able to go outside, we're not totally locked down, except for one day a week here, we're physically able to go outside for most of the time. So we can go ride our bikes, we can go for walks, she has these dance videos on TV she likes to do to keep active inside. But I'm talking about when she's at school from nine to 230 online with very little like, their breaks and things. And it's first grade. So there's a little bit of activity, but not much when the school day ends, or her activity. And so like she's done with her work, and she has maybe an hour break, she'll drop for that break.
Scott Benner 7:53
Well, stress anxiety.
Jen 7:55
Yeah. And that's what I think it is. That's what I like, I'm coming to the realization that this is because we've only been doing two weeks, three weeks of online learning. And I'm watching it and it's it's we were lucky we were doing well here for the longest time. So she was in school. Last year, it closed down a little bit. And then she was she started school end of August, and she had been in school until a few weeks ago.
Scott Benner 8:17
And I want to amend my my answer slightly, meaning maybe it's not as much about the activity is is about the the world of life and like the stress and anxiety of listening and paying attention to focusing or just maybe doing something she's not completely comfortable with. So she's got more of a maybe an adrenaline or an anxiety high that you're fighting with insulin and then all of a sudden when that goes away, that would make sense why it drops even more quickly. Because that just like a split second. It's interesting.
Jen 8:47
It is but it's hard to predict when it's gonna happen, because it's not something that I'm watching. I can't like, I can't know she's gonna write her assignment in 20 minutes or an hour. And so when she says she's done, I know it because I see her blood sugar at this point.
Scott Benner 9:02
I know you're done cuz I'm running around the house looking for juice.
Jen 9:05
Yeah, exactly. No, no, we've actually have a diabetes drawer in her at home desk, which has Skittles right there. I'm like, go for it. You know what you need.
Scott Benner 9:14
I wonder if you don't choose a number of Skittles. And try one day as soon as school and she pops the Skittles in her mouth and see what happens.
Jen 9:23
That's what I think we're gonna go to we've talked about maybe doing a snack a few minutes before school and like maybe 1520 minutes before school and she just has has a little snack. And we'll we'll see maybe maybe that will be a good solution because it's it's now regular enough that I know it's coming. I just don't I don't quite know how to place it yet, but we're going to try a few things to see if we can sort that out.
Scott Benner 9:47
I have an interview coming up this weekend. That will be out with a concert cellist Her name's Alyssa Wyler Stein, and she told me a story while we were talking about her husband getting surgery and how her blood sugar Just shot up the entire time he was in surgery and would not come down No matter how much insulin she gave herself until she knew he was okay. To that, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 10:09
it's
Jen 10:10
just as hard. Yeah. And and it's, it's fascinating because I can see it I was shocked when she went back to school. Because they were they were back but with with masks and with like plexiglass in between the kids and very much sitting down and I finally I was there and I sat in class with him for maybe the third day or fourth day, cuz I'm like, something's different this year, like she's needing more insulin, and it's not working. So we've changed her pump, we've done a whole bunch of things, and I looked in, they don't have the socialists, they don't have the moving, they don't have the interactions that cause you to move during the day. And I hadn't thought about that.
Scott Benner 10:49
Ya know, it's that it happens to I think everyone almost and it's whether or not you see it or not, whether you can step back and, and see the causality and it's cool that you did, it's just and you'll figure it out. It really is. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's more insulin and then finding a better way of stopping below. before it happens. Yeah, you know,
Jen 11:12
yeah. And that's where we are that we started. We started a few different choices. And they're not they're not quite there yet. We've got a little bit more tweaking to do, but I have no doubt we will get there. Cool. Always. We always have. So we'll keep plugging away.
Scott Benner 11:26
So we have to figure a couple of things out here. One is, you seem to live. But you have a pretty he's a pretty white lady name, but you live somewhere else. No, it's
Jen 11:40
true. I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and we I haven't lived in America, really? Since I was 18.
Scott Benner 11:49
I have to tell you had you told me you were born in Pittsburgh. I wouldn't have asked if you knew what football was. That's for sure.
Unknown Speaker 11:54
Yeah. Right. Well, yeah, no, I
Jen 11:56
was born in the 80s. in Pittsburgh. So yes, I know what football is. No kidding. My parents have made sure of that.
Scott Benner 12:03
How do you leave the country? Anything? Are you running? Quickly, Jennifer? That's all I need to
Jen 12:10
know. Thankfully, no, no. The um, you know, those those career days at school, and somebody comes in and talk to you about it. And this guy said he just up and left at 18. And he went to study in Grenoble in France, and he loved his life of traveling, and I came home and I told my dad, I had my acceptance letter ready to go into u dub in Washington State. And he's like, Well, you could do that. And it really caused me to pause. I'm like, yeah, maybe maybe I could. Yeah, so I found it. I found a university and I went to university in in France, and tried to come back for a little bit of time to America after that, and it it. It didn't work. Were lots of years later, and I'm still abroad.
Scott Benner 13:00
So do you speak French fluently from that experience?
Jen 13:03
At one point, it was it was good. But that was a long time ago. I graduated in 2004. And yes, I speak enough to get by on a vacation whenever we could travel again. Um, I wouldn't call it fluent. anymore. It there just has been so little practice. And we're working on another language. Now since we're in the Middle East. No, Arabic is tricky. A lot.
Scott Benner 13:27
So a couple of things. First of all, your dad seems like a special guy to say that so freely, you know, because I've had those moments where Arden's like, She's like, do you think I could go and go to France and study fashion? And we're like, Yeah, of course. But what you mean is no, please stay here. But you don't say it.
Unknown Speaker 13:47
Right. I mean, I
Jen 13:47
don't think I fully realized that what he said how how hard that must have been until I had kids and I'm like, wow, like you want the best for them. But and that was a that was a big thing he said and and I don't know if he intended it to hit me so profoundly but it did
Scott Benner 14:05
you imagine he's he just walks into the other room. This is your mom. She's a solid dad and I just did out there I told her where she could go to France shall never go it's no big deal. You don't realize growing up in Pittsburgh make you want to go to Pittsburgh sometimes too. So we're just wherever you grow up, you know, like you're nice. And it seems small. It's true.
Jen 14:24
Yeah, I was only in Pittsburgh for a few months. And then I grew up in Washington State
Unknown Speaker 14:29
No kidding. But
Jen 14:32
yeah, I mean it's it's not that I loved where I grew up. I loved you know, I The hardest part obviously is being so far away from my family. Um, but I absolutely love it. I love being abroad. I love I love my family. I love the that we've the life we've created and all these random but not random places, and I don't know. It's cool.
Unknown Speaker 14:53
Working out.
Scott Benner 14:54
Where did you meet your husband in Paris. Okay, but he wasn't from France, either.
Jen 15:00
No, no, that was the one thing my grandma said she's like, don't go to France and meet a French guy moved to France. But now he's he's actually from Yemen. So, um, when we got married, I moved to Yemen.
Scott Benner 15:13
Your grandmother should have more specifically said don't go to France meet a guy from Yemen and move the Jordan.
Unknown Speaker 15:19
Well, right.
Jen 15:19
I know. It's true. Like, nobody could have predicted any of the craziness that has happened once I got my acceptance into France to university there, but yeah,
Scott Benner 15:30
that's really something. Okay, how long have you guys been together?
Unknown Speaker 15:34
Uh, um,
Jen 15:35
I was in Paris when you read in Paris? 2002. To 2005.
Scott Benner 15:41
Okay, so you've been out you were married a good bit before you had children then too?
Jen 15:47
Well, yeah, I, um, we. He worked for a while. And I actually decided that I wanted to live in America and work. And, and that was the direction we were going. So I went back to America, and I got a job and I loved it. And it was fantastic. And then decided to get my master's degree. And what better opportunity to go abroad than that. So I went to the University of Edinburgh, in Scotland, for my masters, and I haven't been back to America since except for vacations. We decided to get married as soon as I graduated, and that's when I moved to Yemen. Wow. So, john, you
Scott Benner 16:24
have wanderlust?
Unknown Speaker 16:26
I do? No, no, no,
Jen 16:28
this this this lockdown without traveling as Jeremy bunker?
Scott Benner 16:31
Well, that's what I was gonna get to is. So are you in a spacious palace over there. So it's not so bad. I started having this thought, yesterday, I live in what I think would be a fairly modest home in America. And I have had a mattress that my we bought, we got my mom a mattress, she didn't like it. And I didn't have the heart to just toss it. I couldn't find anybody who wanted it. I drove the mattress from my mom to my house, I'm storing it here. And two weekends ago. I say to myself, we don't have the space for this mattress, I'm gonna have to toss this mattress in the garbage, no one will take it. And as I do that, my brother says, Hey, I could use that mattress for my daughter. I was like, Oh, that's great. So my brother moved recently, and I had been to his place yet, I took him to the mattress yesterday. And I got there and thought, Oh, my gosh, his place is so much smaller than mine. And then I noticed that he and you know, is what he's not married, but his partner. They're both working in a room together. There's two kilometers set up. And I'm like, oh, boy, like, I wonder how long? That's like, forget my brother. Like, how long is that going to work?
Jen 17:50
Right. It's true. We we set Nora, we got our desk and put it in my office. And, and there are times I'm like, why? Like we all need space. And we did. Thankfully, we have enough space to kind of have everybody do their own their own thing most of the time. We're missing the outdoors? For sure. Yeah, we have.
Scott Benner 18:08
So I found myself complaining that we were all in separate rooms doing something. And now I feel lucky that we have separate rooms. Yeah. And but tell me about the protocols that you're living under? How do they because you said one day a week you can? Like how does it all work there?
You know, you need peace of mind, you need comfort, you need a little respite? What can offer that to you? Well, in my opinion, the data that comes back from the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. Now, why is that? Well, if you're using insulin, if you have type one, or type two diabetes, or you love someone who does, being able to see the speed, and direction, and number of that person's blood sugar is invaluable. Let me tell you a little more. My daughter had breakfast this morning. And we missed a little bit on it. You know what I mean? Like it's been a couple of hours now. And her blood sugar is still 135. And I've been able to see over the last 45 minutes, that there's just no more impact from the insulin that we used. So we very comfortably gave her more to move this 135 number, somewhere where we're more comfortable. It wasn't just 135 By the way, it was 135 and steady, stable, not following or dropping. The Dexcom showed me that it showed me how long it had been stable. And then you get confidence from that information. You think Alright, this really is some stability. This looks like where we're where we're at now. Well, I'm 35 I'm going to do something about it. Now without the Dexcom I might be thinking I don't know this still could go down or maybe it's gonna I don't know. Like I'm gonna wait and see. But I don't do a lot of waiting and seeing since we found Dexcom I'm seeing my daughter's blood sugar on my eye. Phone, you could also see it on yours or your Android phone. And you can share that data with up to 10 followers of your choosing. Check it out dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Sometimes you want to do something, but you just can't bring yourself to make a change. I understand that. And so does Omni pod. That's why they're offering some of you a free, no obligation trial of the Omni pod dash that lasts for 30 days a 30 day free trial, you may be eligible head over right now to find out Omni pod comm forward slash juice box. Can you imagine? Of course you can't you mean 30 days, you know how long that is? Anyway, you get this, this little whatever we're gonna call it trial, right? And you give it a whirl 30 days is enough time to decide I like this, I don't like this, let me find out, you know how I feel no pressure, maybe just like, I don't want it. And that's okay. Or maybe you do want it. And that's great. Now, you know, choice is what you should have choices but on the pod wants you to have, they want you to be able to make a decision without a lot of pressure or that feeling like oh, I don't want to make this big decision and then not like it. What if I do and if I don't like you shouldn't have to feel like that. Just head over to Omni pod.com forward slash juice box and see if you're eligible for the free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. That's the way to get started. If you're not looking for a big 30 day trial on the pod also offers a free no obligation demo, it's just one nonfunctioning pod that you can actually wear just to see how you feel about it. There's a lot of options over there and on the pod.com, forward slash juicebox. And I would like it very much if you went and took advantage of them. Don't forget while you're out on the internet, getting around the pod, get your Dexcom that you should be checking out touched by type one.org. And finding them on Instagram, and Facebook. They're a great organization doing wonderful things for people with type one diabetes. And all they've asked me to tell you is that they'd like it for you to know that. And for you to check them out. At touched by type one.
Jen 22:14
They've put in some restrictions. And they were they started a while ago. And then they were lifted because we were doing great, like people were concerned here when there were 22 cases a day. And it was nothing like compared to the world and to what I saw with my family in America or or even anywhere else. And so the restrictions got lifted. And then and then as a not that long ago, the cases just started going up. So they've started to put some new restrictions and so they closed down
Unknown Speaker 22:42
schools for a while
Jen 22:43
it was a fourth grade and above. And then kindergarten through third grade, I think in 12th grade were allowed to be on campus and then and that went on for I think a few weeks. And then I want to say two weeks ago now or three weeks ago now. They shut down all of the schools, nurseries are allowed to stay open, but schools are closed down. And then I think at that point is when they decided that Friday, we can tear Friday, Saturday. So Friday. There's a 24 hour curfew essentially. So there's a curfew in the night every night. I can't remember exactly what I'm not a night person. So it doesn't matter.
Unknown Speaker 23:24
Like it doesn't matter to me.
Jen 23:25
Yeah, it's it's either 11 or 12 o'clock at night, not like this in a cafe right now anyways, with everything else going on, um, but 11 or 12 at night to 6am is there's a curfew and then every Friday for 24 hours, there's a curfew. So that means you're not allowed to leave your property.
Unknown Speaker 23:42
Gotcha.
Jen 23:43
Wow. And we have an apartment so
Unknown Speaker 23:45
you're not leaving an apartment?
Jen 23:47
Well, we're not like words, like we can go run around in the garage and do some bubbles on the roof. But we're not going to go for a walk. We're not going to do anything else like that.
Unknown Speaker 23:55
Is it working? Or numbers going the other way?
Jen 23:58
For a while it wise and no, it's things are going a little more about 2025 between 2020 500 cases a day, I think and 30 ish deaths which I get is still good compared to a lot of different countries. But for the majority of the time, it was a bad day if there were 50 cases and no deaths right yeah, so there's there's been a significant change and I know that they're doing what they can to try to sort it all out while not completely destroying the economy and I applaud them for that for all the government's honestly because there's just so much balance that has to be happening right now. with everybody wanting different things
Scott Benner 24:39
was your daughter. We're both your daughter's born in Jordan.
Jen 24:44
No Sonora was born when we were living in Yemen, but we didn't have her in Yemen. We went back to America for that. Um, and then Dahlia the three year old was born here.
Scott Benner 24:56
What are their first languages English Okay, so you guys, you guys out
Jen 25:01
there, but they're learning Arabic? Yeah, yeah. No, my husband, if you were to have him, like just talk right now to you, he you would not guess that he had an accent from a country. Okay. And he can put it on obviously and he will sound like he has an accent if he tries but I wouldn't have assumed that he grew up outside of America if I hadn't asked him.
Scott Benner 25:21
So you guys are learning the language? Because you're because you feel like you're gonna stay in that they're gonna grow up there.
Jen 25:27
Yep, well, and it's their family too. Like he's maybe it's, it's half of them who they are is an Arabic speaking people. So they they need that's how they would communicate me. Obviously his family's fantastic. And they all know English. So they, they talk far too much English just to learn our Arabic very well. But that's it's lovely. Because then we, the girls don't aren't isolated because of the language. So they are learning. We're all learning.
Scott Benner 25:58
How is it? How does the healthcare system work there? What's the process?
Unknown Speaker 26:05
It's pretty great. Well,
Unknown Speaker 26:07
um,
Jen 26:07
if you're comparing it to America, it's fantastic. We're lucky to be here.
Unknown Speaker 26:13
I'm
Jen 26:15
coming from Yemen, we have access to things which is so important, especially for Nora now, we don't have to worry about getting the technology or whatever else. Um, so insulin here is equates to about $25 a vial. You don't need insurance, you don't need a prescription. You just go in and say what you need. I need Nova rapid and they give you How many do you need? Do you want some ice with that? It's literally like that simple. It takes me about like, it's a huge culture shock go into America, and we're there for the summer for a holiday or whatever. And they're like, put your prescription hasn't been renewed yet new, or you have to call this and I'm like, yeah, I forgot. Like, you have to prove that you still have diabetes. Like, it's not going away. Like why? Why do you have to keep proving it. But I get that there's a whole bunch of other things. Why you have to do that. But um, things are available here. Obviously, you can have test strips, you can have, like good meters, there's Dexcom Medtronic are both here, obviously, we, you know that we're on a tandem sum. And we have chosen to do that because we love the fact that you can upgrade with an online
Unknown Speaker 27:29
update. Yeah.
Jen 27:30
So that you don't have to be anywhere particularly in the world, you just have to have the prescription from the doctor. So nor does have to endocrinologist she has the one here that we see when we're here. was fantastic. Pretty hands off but but there when we need her in a pinch there when we have any questions, and then a doctor in America that we see once a year and we get a prescription so that we can maintain the technology that we like, because while there is Dexcom here it there on chief orangey five, actually, although i know i think they just said that they're phasing out the g4 finally. And Medtronic is also one one generation behind I think they've got the 640. It's even different from what it's 640 or 630. I know there's a little bit different because it's the year peon version.
Scott Benner 28:17
Wow, that's interesting. They can kind of balance those two worlds and end up getting what you need out of it.
Jen 28:24
Yeah, like I gotta tell you, like I have a phone with an American SIM card that's on all the time, in addition to my Jordanian SIM card, and I get random calls at the middle of the night. Excuse me, it's time for you to reorder this. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, I forgot this was the night I need to, I need to be up and do my American insurance or ordering or whatever it is. And so yeah, I mean, we're doing this because it's the best care for Nora and we're lucky to be able to do that and to have the ability to maneuver between the two worlds by
Scott Benner 28:55
just helping healthcare workers healthcare funnel through employment there or does it does everyone have it and you just there's a certain amount you pay? How does that part work?
Jen 29:04
If there would be healthcare for everybody here if you were Jordanian. But because we are not we have private insurance. Now, because we are American living in a Middle Eastern country, or for that matter, Europe, like they kind of all bundled together a lot of the times if you're trying to get everything together our insurances It's strange. It's It's very, it's very complicated. And it turns out to be more like travel insurance for me and the girls. Because we want to include America. And because because we need that bit we're there we go to visit my family in the summer. Because we need that bit in America if the girls were to break their leg or like like in Nora's case, God forbid we have to ground a plane because somebody is diagnosed with this new disease. We need it to cover us kind of everywhere. So we renew it every year and Hope it keeps on going at this point, it's my April stress every year just to make sure that it, it continues because I know that we can't necessarily be covered as what we want worldwide if we get it strictly from America, and they will not cover us from over here. And if we try to get it through a company, then it's like, ridiculously expensive. So
Scott Benner 30:24
Wow, that's a lot. So it must be great living there if you guys are willing to do
Unknown Speaker 30:29
it is no, no,
Jen 30:30
there's huge trade offs. Like we love living here where we're thankful to be in a place because my husband still does go back and forth where his job and Yemen. So we tried being in America and the 12 hour timezone change or the 10, or whatever it is, when you have Daylight Savings Time to the east, to the west coast. Is, is really hard it like it's too far away. So we're we're happy to be here in a place that has welcomed us. And I can't speak highly enough about Jordan.
Scott Benner 31:00
So you basically can't live in America for one of the reasons because your husband can't work then because the time shift is too different.
Jen 31:08
Well, no, he he, he goes to Yemen. So he still travels for six weeks, two months at a time and he'll go working him in. And then so if we want to talk to him at all, or if we want to see him or the kids, I mean, I can say we can figure things out. But the kids, obviously with a 12 hour timezone change. It is really hard in America to get those toxic, meaningful. And if there's too much traveling involved to try to get like it's a three hour flight from here to there. So it's it's possible to do. I wouldn't say simply, especially right now, but it's possible to do much less complicated.
Scott Benner 31:50
I'm just trying to imagine that your kids at like three in the morning like you're holding the phone in front of face like say hi to daddy.
Unknown Speaker 31:54
Yeah.
Jen 31:57
I'm assuming it'd be a lot like if if you give more juice in the middle of night where she's got like half an eye open and she looks at me like, what do you think you're doing? And then she rolls over and she's like, I'll see you later, mom.
Scott Benner 32:09
I stopped asking many years ago. Do you remember having a juice last night? That doesn't? Nobody remember? Yeah. No,
Jen 32:16
the only like, the only time I know she remembers is if it was particularly a bad night and she has to go the bathroom potential wakeup so that balance will come and be like she did we have a lot of juice tonight. Yes, sir. is bad night, honey. That's hilarious. It's funny.
Scott Benner 32:29
Arden only has to pee overnight if her blood sugar is high, not if it's been low, I guess she she's must have a tank somewhere she puts that juice in so
Unknown Speaker 32:37
well, um, and
Jen 32:38
it, like I said doesn't happen much. But if we completely do something wrong, it was in new food or whatever. And she's just low for an extended period of time, it actually sometimes will take her quite a bit of juice to come up. So, and I think she, she just goes about them a lot. So
Scott Benner 32:56
listen, I'm one of those people. If I'm up, I might as well go. I just figure you know, what the heck? I've maybe she's in the same part. Feeling
Jen 33:05
make sense to me?
Scott Benner 33:06
Yeah, no kidding, right? You're already in that direction? Well, how did you find? Like, how did you locate the podcast? And has it helped you at all?
Jen 33:17
So yes, it has helped me a lot. So Nora was diagnosed in a very strange way. But the way back to here where we live permanently in Jordan, it took us some time to get here. And then the rules for food and the rules for diagnosing or not diagnosing. But for managing. Because we were in three countries before we finally got back here we were in Canada, we were an American, we were here and they all had different versions of how they should be handled. And nobody was willing to kind of walk us through the huge details, although they were all very kind and very, you know, generous with what they wanted. But they're like, but you need to find what works for you wherever you're going to be with whatever technology or things you can have. So we didn't have a fantastically solid start to diabetes. Um,
Unknown Speaker 34:10
and then.
Jen 34:12
Okay, so then, and we and we were doing fine ish, we kind of got through for about a year. And then we had to redo the insurance and they didn't ignore it. They said her agency was too high and it was unreasonable for them to try to it wasn't an American company and it was something else we were trying to do. And I was like, What are doctors say she's doing? Well, like she had a seven ish seven and a half ish, a one c it was an
Unknown Speaker 34:39
awful. Um,
Scott Benner 34:40
so the insurance company used her a one C to try to deny insurance.
Jen 34:45
Yeah. And, and, and to be honest, like, it took me a long time to be okay, like, I feel like the her diagnosis was really hard on me. Um, it was a really, it was it took me a long time. Trying to be okay with thinking about it with with with with everything. So I just kind of we got by for a long time and our doctors were saying that we were doing okay that there were things we can do better and then she was denied insurance and I was like, No, like, yeah, okay, we can manage here we can we can spend 25 GED because at that point, I think she was using like half a vial or she was on a pen at that point. So we were using like, half a pen a month, like there was no enzyme being used in such a tiny little body. But I'm like, but the doctor saying we're okay, so why is this person not saying we're okay. And somehow it clicked at that point that there might be more I could do. For some reason I hadn't thought like the doctors were just saying you keep going, you're doing fine. And as they do, and they're very, you know, supportive and everything. So then we then I started looking, and I found I found sugar surfing actually. And I was like, well, this is interesting, we had never thought about some of the concepts of managing a little bit more fluidly. or concepts like giving insulin before the kid eats. And then making it up if if something goes wrong with a young kid who suddenly doesn't want to finish, you know, spaghetti or whatever. And so it got me thinking. And that's at that point, that's when we kind of dropped into the fives for her agency. And we've been that way now for a year and a half for two years. And, but I still feel like I still felt like and this was maybe five, four months ago, five months ago, in the beginning of the when she first came home from so last March. Um, she was going flow a lot. And at that point, I realized that we were masking perhaps a lot of what was happening at school with whatever was happening like it just like it was like we just kept kind of pushing through. And there was a lot of room for improvement. So while she had a pretty good center deviation, she was low a lot more than I was comfortable with. And I think the juice was causing some other issues with her maybe with her eating or with some other stuff. Like she was just full because she was being pumped a lot. And so I then I started looking, I'm like, okay, so there's got to be maybe some more information out there that I'm missing. And that's when I found the podcast and started trying to figure out what we can do to to bring to bring down her lows, like not bring down but you know, like reduce the amount of lows that she's having. The amount of essentially what he cared about was making sure that she wasn't having too much chips or Skittles.
Scott Benner 37:37
Yeah, looking for more stability. Jen, you have been on a What's the time, like, frame for that? How long did all that take?
Unknown Speaker 37:47
Which like
Scott Benner 37:48
everything you just said, a year of your life to get from A to B? Was it two years? How long did that like? Ignore I was
Jen 37:56
diagnosed five weeks after Dahlia was born. Okay,
Scott Benner 38:02
hold on, hold on, hold on, slow down. There we go. So five weeks after your second daughter's born, your first daughter is diagnosed because you said it was hard on you. And you were It sounds like you were struggling? Can we talk about that for a minute? Like the struggle you had?
Jen 38:16
Yeah, cool. So we, um, we come every summer we ever since we moved abroad, that was kind of our deal that we would still spend the summers with my family because, you know, we miss them. And then that gives us a good chunk of time to be an American, I can go visit my grandma or my sister, whoever.
Unknown Speaker 38:33
Um,
Jen 38:34
so we were on our way to America. I'm with a five week old baby. And here let me like rewind a minute, because we did go to a doctor here we did notice that Nora was acting strange, like she was drinking a little bit more. She had an accident here there despite being potty trained. And the doctor here said she was fine. Like that she was jealous of the new baby. Um, and so we're like, oh,
Unknown Speaker 39:01
my God,
Jen 39:02
I'm tired. Like, she's a doctor. She's certified in America. Like, she must know what she's talking about. And well, we'll get through this and we'll go do our annual checkup in America with the doctor there and show him or put us on a plane. And I was by myself with the two girls. And Nora went into DK somewhere between London and Phoenix over a huge body of water.
Unknown Speaker 39:26
And
Jen 39:29
she was we knew she wasn't feeling fantastic, but I just figured it was maybe nerves or I don't know if we're sure there's a lot going on. And so we just kind of we kind of like ignore this just push through on the other end is grandma grandpa will just take a nap on the airplane and watch some cool movies. And she's like, yeah, sure, mom. And then, I don't know two or three hours after this is a 10 hour flight after takeoff. She just stopped responding kind of um She, yeah, she just kind of it didn't look okay. And she threw up a couple times on the airplane. And we were lucky, actually, the head of Phoenix Children's Hospital was on the airplane with us. Then he came over and he checked her. And nobody was telling me actually what's going on. But they're like, I think it might be time for us to land the plane, really. And the first place we can land, the plane is in Canada. And I think it's about two hours away. We're too far to go back. And we're not there yet. So hold tight, and we're going to get as fast as we can to, to Canada, to the first place we can learn. And so we did, we landed in Canada. And I like I don't even remember the name of the city anymore. Like I said, there were several things that I blocked out, because literally, it was like, me and my two girls on this airplane, ready to go to Phoenix and like we are in our T shirts, and it's 100 degrees in Phoenix. And they're like, hey, so we have a couple things we need to tell you. First of all, it's literally freezing outside, and you guys are in T shirts. So here's some blankets here. Like we're gonna wrap you guys in these until you can get into the hospital, although I don't remember being cold, but I know brand new baby. Like that wasn't brilliant. Um, and then second of all, you have to have a car seat for your second kid. For the baby. Like we're in Canada, you can't just hold her in the ambulance when we land, and we can't find your car seat. So I need you to tell me whether you want to go in the air ambulance with Nora or you want to wait here with Dahlia to we find her car seat? And I was like, wow. Like,
Scott Benner 41:42
that's what that movie is about? You know?
Jen 41:44
Yeah. makes that choice. And, and and then thankfully, they did find it. And, and then we moved to the hospital in this small town. And I mean, we got there and they looked at me and they're like, so do you have diabetes in the family? And I'm like, oh, what's going on? Like, what's going on? And she told me like, she told me that Nora has type one. And I'm like, is she gonna be okay? And she's like, I hope so.
Scott Benner 42:15
Was she unconscious at that point.
Jen 42:18
She was unconscious at that point. And it took her about 12 hours to regain consciousness. And so then, once once she was conscious, I knew that we'd be fine. But you're in this teeny tiny hospital? I don't know, on the edge of Canada is the best I can describe it. Because I mean, it was beautiful flat blue sky snow on the ground. But we were we were inside. Like for two or three. Because the first little bit we were there and just trying to make sure that Nora could pull through and she's a fighter. So we're, she's always been a fighter jet. So she did.
Scott Benner 42:56
What can I tell you? This is the I mean, this is I don't mean this poorly. But this is the most like viscerally disturbing diagnosis story anybody's ever told. Like I'm vibrating. And I now understand why I love submarine movie so much. And I just did an interview with somebody last week who was diagnosed during a heroin bender. And so I'm just like, oh my god. Yeah, make sure you listen to that one, by the way. Absolutely fantastic. But, but um, but seriously, it's the it's the I mean, not that this is any stretch for anyone listening, but it's the being on the plane thing over the ocean, and understanding what DK is. I'm like, Oh my god, that kid could have just died on that plane. That's Yeah, insane.
Jen 43:45
Yeah, well, and then yeah, there was that there. There was a lot of things that I learned afterward that I'm very happy I didn't know before. Because there like I said, there really isn't type one of my family although my great uncle's my grandma's brother did have type one. Um, but we didn't talk about it. And it never came to my mind at the time. Um, and there is thyroid so I get how it could happen. But I but it's not close enough that I would have ever put signs together. And having the doctor tell us that she's just jealous. Like, I didn't think much of it. I was just kind of bracing myself for this, this huge kind of 24 hour plane travel with these two small girls. And I don't know, it's like, it took me a long time to get over the parts that were hard. You can choose I mean, because then there was a snowstorm and we couldn't leave a small hospital because we had to be airlifted to the big hospital. But because we're coming from a foreign country, it'd be quarantined for MERS or SARS or something I don't remember at the time. And then once we got to the big hospital, that's when my dad could finally get there. So I was two or three days alone with these these these two girls one hooked up to every possible tube and the other one mostly peacefully asleep. Thank God with lots of lovely, lovely people who would just kind of do Whatever for her.
Scott Benner 45:02
Do you? Do you think that this situate by the way your episode is going to be called DK on a plane? keshawn.
Unknown Speaker 45:10
Good to know.
Scott Benner 45:12
And I'm just seeing Sam Jackson run around looking for insulin and there's snakes falling everywhere. This is how it's gonna go.
Jen 45:17
No, but the thing is on the plane, nobody told me I could not get out of them. I'm like, so what is happening? And he's like, I I'm not prepared to say anything quite yet. And I think it was probably to maintain my sanity before we got on the phone. But I did not know that. This is what they were thinking that anybody had a good idea was going on the Dr. Phil, I
Scott Benner 45:35
Children's Hospital didn't ask anybody for a meter. You didn't see them test your blood sugar and nothing like that.
Jen 45:39
No, he did. He did. Oh, and I didn't put it together.
Scott Benner 45:43
Okay.
Jen 45:44
And it was a meter from the UK. And so her blood sugar appeared low. But he didn't know it's from the UK. And she's he's American. So there was some juice given like it was it was really like no, I looked back at it. And there was some things that was just it was really hard all around.
Scott Benner 46:04
Wow. Wow. That's all crazy. Geez, I swear to you, I I've heard 500 people tell me how they are their children have gotten diabetes that those initial things and I am no lie. I've never felt so stressed out my entire life while somebody was telling me that I've never felt like what people would consider triggered nowadays by any story that's been told to me on this podcast. But I started like, I got nervous and, and warm while you were talking about it and my chest got tight. I was like, Oh, Jesus, and I knew the kid was okay. By the way.
Jen 46:40
I mean, you know what, we're here. We're here talking about diabetes. Yeah, she did pull through. Like but but but like, it's taken me a long time to get here to want to talk about well, that's
Scott Benner 46:49
that's what I was gonna ask you Next is that that that scenario, that situation? Those few days? Had to I'll just put this out that had pretty good, right?
Jen 47:00
Yeah. Okay. It did. It did really well. And then we got, you know, and then we got to like, I can't remember that the phone call that when we finally landed the plane and microphone turned on a heads reception, like, Oh, my God, I got to call Omar and say he just put us on a plane, but we're five hours early from my husband. And and tell him that we're actually in Canada, and our daughter's on an ambulance. And I've got no idea of why. And then I had to call my mom and say, you know, sorry, mom. We're actually still in Canada. Like, I don't know, what else to tell you. Um, so yeah, like, but then I think back in like, I like, I don't know how I must have given my phone number and at some point, but like, there was one lady on the plane that just told Dahlia for like, five hours. She's like, No, no, you have a lot going on. Like, I'll just hold your baby so that she doesn't cry. And she did. And the guy next to me, he's like, well, I can get your bags off in London or in, in Phoenix and like, I'll call your mom and will like, sort out whatever you need. Like if you need if you can't get whatever. And obviously for security reasons I had everything with me. But like, I don't know, a pilot called later just to make sure that she was fine that everything was ended up okay. And I don't know just the kindness of people that they like.
Scott Benner 48:20
It's I'm trying to hold on to. Well, now I realize I'm gonna cry Jesus. This is I thought we were having a nice conversation for the first time. Five minutes.
Jen 48:28
Cheese. Yeah. And we were we were we still are. I don't know if I could pass you tissue.
Scott Benner 48:37
I have them here. Don't worry. I'm used to.
Jen 48:40
Okay, excellent. So I'm not the first one to make you cry.
Scott Benner 48:42
No, no, I cry once in a while. While I'm doing the I just don't usually say it. But now you got me the pilot called the ladies home. Baby. Doctor misunderstood the meter.
Jen 48:52
Yeah, like, the one thing that I think, yeah, there's like, there's not many things. I'm the times I'm going to say that diabetes has helped our life. It has added lots of extra stuff to us. But the community of people that we have because of it. And it started on that day with all these people just being kind nobody having any day was going on. But they were just like, here, what can I do? And they just kind of did it with with love. And from that day forward. I mean, the people that that I find the kindness are the ones that don't know anything about diabetes and are just like, Can I give you a hug or bring you a sandwich? It looks like you might not have eaten or slept or? I don't know. Like, I love that about this. I love that. That's the part I love about diabetes is the community of people that have kind of band together to help each other figure it all out.
Scott Benner 49:48
I have to agree with that. That's for certain. Oh, geez. Okay, all right. I don't want to hear any
Jen 49:55
good. The good news is like she made it after. So for seven days in Canada, my dad was there for most of the time. So he just had a ball with Dahlia, they checked into a hotel, and God knows what they did. But they were having a good time. And then we moved to Phoenix. And we started to figure it out. But because of the situation that I, you know, showed up to Phoenix with my, they gave me an exchange chart for food in Canada. And so I was like, okay, so I pull whip out this chart, the hospital and I'm like, so we were told that we're allowed to have one bread that can be exchanged for one, whatever, at breakfast, and this and so there had been been a few times of relearning stuff. Yeah. So it's just been, it's been a challenge, because there are a lot of ways one can deal with diabetes, some, obviously, better than others, but everybody has their own style. And so it's just been a weird journey of going through trying to learn everybody's style, because you obviously you're in a new place, you want to see how they do it, what they can do, um, and then trying to make it work for you. And so that I mean, thankfully, there's a lot of information out there.
Scott Benner 51:08
I think that one of the things that your episode is going to really, I hope drill into people's heads, and it's thanks to your wanderlust, by the way, is that seriously, because you've been in so many different places. And that actually happened during your daughter's diagnosis? Is that wherever you are, right now, someone's telling you, this is how you do it. And that's not necessarily true. There are a lot of ways people do it. There are a lot of different considerations that people give, you know, not everybody gets a chart with a Tim Hortons on it that tells you to have a Tim Hortons takeaway to breads, you know, like that? Yeah.
Jen 51:45
No, it's true. Like it was it was exactly.
Scott Benner 51:49
And, and, and not everybody. I mean, I'm still, you have to understand that when I started this podcast, I didn't, I knew what Pre-Bolus thing was, I did it for years upon years. And so I still get notes to this day, from new people who are just their minds are boggled by the idea of using the insulin in a timed fashion.
Jen 52:13
It's me, it took us It took us a year or so to even come to that car. Like I never dawned on me in the beginning. Because I mean, to be honest, nor was a picky eater when she was younger, she's better now. But I couldn't count on anything. But that doesn't mean you couldn't have worked it out some way. I hear of lots of people dealing with that in ways where you kind of break it up or you extend or something like that, if you have a pump or whatever, yeah, but um, but to tell you the truth. I was like, I didn't look for information for a long time. There was a lot of adjustment of trying to get to America and then and then see my parents and be like, okay, so mom and dad. Turns out our summer of fun, still will be fun. But there's gonna be a little more more to do. And then and then doing that, again, when we came back to to Jordan at the end of the summer, and finally seeing Omar and be like, Okay, so here is, here we are, and we have a lot of new ways of doing things, but then also been organizing that with, with what's available here in Jordan. So so taking what we could from America, but then also realizing it had to be tweaked a little bit once we got here.
Scott Benner 53:23
And so he didn't see her for months after she was diagnosed.
Jen 53:29
No, he hasn't been able to get a visa for America for for a while.
Scott Benner 53:33
That's amazing. I'm sorry. So.
Jen 53:35
So the choice was we because we had big talks about this, whether we just kind of pick up we see my parents for maybe a week or so and then pick up and come back and all catch up and figure this out together. Or I spend the summer as planned, see my parents, figure it out in America and and then come back here and we've had to make that choice. It'd be less traumatic for the girls to not pull them away from what they were expecting. Well, nor at that point, I didn't remember much, obviously. So we decided we decided to stay and I can't imagine him making that choice. It was a completely selfless choice on his part. Well, no, that's
Scott Benner 54:09
really something I'm, I'm still trying to wrap my head around. If I was, if Arden was diagnosed in one place, they gave us one set of information. And then I was just Time Warp somewhere else to another place where they talked about it differently. And just as I was probably beginning to not even understand but at least get some semblance of like normalcy about it. I go to a different place where a third set of people talk about it a different way as well. And yeah, then you try to meld all that together. While you don't know what you're talking about. That seems impossible to me.
Jen 54:45
It was which is why I think we coasted for for a while like we were just like we were getting by with all of the like, I can't Well, you must know obviously like this, just diabetes is so much to process. And then when you're told different ways to process it like it's just There was a wall plus plus there was just so much else going on. We're just grateful to all be together to be healthy and, and together. And so we kind of did what we could to keep what was normal, because I think the one thing, the only thing that was common in those three locations was, but don't worry, you can do everything you want to do, you can have a normal life, you can eat what you want, you can grow up to be whatever you want. You can be happy or healthy, you can be sad or unhappy. But it will all be your choice. You just have to kind of go through and I love that message. Like I love it. That is one of the first messages that people tell you. But there's no real assistance and getting there like you just kind of have to keep trying. I and
Scott Benner 55:40
yeah, I hate that. That the idea is espoused without the supporting information, meaning, yeah, no one, no one will tell you that. They'll just say like, Oh, this is your Basal insulin, your Basal insulins job is to keep your blood sugar stable away from food. Okay, great. No one. And then they say, and this is how much Basal insulin you get. It's it's x amount of units a day. If you're if you're, if you're injecting, or they'll set you up on a pump and go, okay, it's point three, five an hour, this is it. No one ever mentions that that might be wrong, or that it might not be enough or too much, or that if the basil is not right, then the Bolus is won't work, or that we may have set your carb ratio to a classic diet, but you're going to go eat a carb heavier diet, or you're going to have more simple sugars. And that's, that's all insane. It just really is. It's it's the idea of, I don't know, just it's teaching someone to drive a car and tell me you push that one down to go and you push that one down to stop. And there's really a little more to it than there's some nuance in there. And the nuance gets lost as it does, by the way in everything in life. When it's being explained or or disseminated usually. But nobody even says, Hey, listen, this basil is going they don't they'll say it may change once in a while. But they won't say it's going to change. You know, like be aware of that the first time you see blood sugars that are too high for too long, could be the end of your honeymoon it could be and I get that it's a lot of information. It seems like important information to me.
Jen 57:18
Well, the thing I wish that people would talk about in this obviously is worldwide is so this is what's going on right now. But tomorrow may be very different. I know you'll have no idea what to do tomorrow, but call me and then keep learning. Here's some resources like it doesn't even matter. Like if you want to start with like an old question book or a fold out of like, you know, card exchanges, I don't, I don't care whatever information you want to give them. But if the idea that what I left with a hospital was going to pick a hospital, it doesn't matter. Because they all it all felt the same. That that was that was law that was right. And, and whatever was happening was something else, or you know, it's diabetes, and it's just, it's really hard. So there's gonna be some roller coasters. And that's, that's sad, I find I find, I find the the idea of the fixed the fixed pneus of diabetes, especially in this age where you can have the technology to sort things out a lot faster. You have test strips that you can use, you have Dexcom, you have all the CGM and the pumps that can can help you figure out, figure out what you need to do to extend insulin or to watch your blood sugar to catch things that you would never have been able to catch before. Like with that technology, there should be a disclosure thing. There's a lot of new things going to be coming your way. It's not just ideas about food, but it's technology. It's it's your kids body as they grow or change through this disease, but also through life. Like if you could, if you could tell anybody something important, you should say that, yes, we could can do anything, but everything they do is going to cause a change in their body and just watch out for it. And
Scott Benner 58:59
the I find the bigger issue around that is that they'll tell you, you know, oh, today, you know, nothing. Today might not be like tomorrow might not be like the next day. And that somehow gets distilled down and translated into diabetes, you never know what's going to happen. So just write it out. Instead of the idea that, you know, today there was more stress or less activity or you ate this food instead of that food 10 carbs, this isn't going to impact you the way 10 carbs that does. There's so much in there that's easy to understand if you hear it, but instead they give you this magical idea that, oh, there's nothing you can do about this. It's just going to happen and you're going to have to let it happen. And once someone tells you that, especially in a life where until then medication has likely meant to you to have these every six hours. One of these every morning. You name it like and then that's it you don't think about it again. When you see algorithm, Jen manipulate insulin You see it, take it away and give it back and add more and bring it away. When you see that happen, you realize that a static basil rate and a static idea of how to give insulin for foods is archaic at this point.
Jen 1:00:16
Well, it totally is like a man tell you like it was shocking. We came back here and we saw a doctor not not our current doctor in Jordan, but a different one. And this was after Canada, the first place that didn't give us a fixed, fixed anything they were, they were just telling us what to dose like, I would call them and say, Okay, we're gonna eat this for lunch, and they'd give me insulin because he knew I was traveling. So they were just helping me to get to the next place. And then America, there was nothing fixed either it was a what you want, and then do it on this kind of thing. It was this tiny scalar ratio, I can't remember how it was in the beginning, because things have changed a million times. We got here and he's like, so based on her weight, she'll have this much basil, which is her heaviest meal of the day. Okay, so she'll have one unit for breakfast, she can have only this. At lunch, you'll have two units and a dinner, she'll have one unit. Because lunch is the heavy meal here. And that's that. And I'm like, I looked at him. And I'm like, but we've been doing it differently. And that seems like a really rigid lifestyle. Why? Why do we have Why do we have to do that for such a young kid? And there was no answer. And there were lots of tears when we left that doctor's office. Because I just that seemed really, really wrong. To have to take away the freedom of all that. Um, but yeah, when you have all that, when you have all the technology, there should be there should be freedom of choice, there should be. But with that responsibility, like there's no way a pancreas does nothing. Like it doesn't just sit on his back. Because I know at the beginning, when we started doing these things in our I was actually doing really well with like her time and range and things where things were going, but you could see she was feeling better. Omar looked at me and he's like, well, this, this is a lot of work. Isn't this too much work for you for us, because the brunt of it falls on me because he travels so much that I've kind of taken on the scope of diabetes. And then when he's here, he kind of if things have changed, he kind of relearns where things have changed, anything jumps back in. But I'm like, Well, I mean, your pancreas doesn't stop and my pancreas doesn't stop. And yeah, it's a lot of work. But like, she's healthy.
Scott Benner 1:02:18
Right? I am, you know, as you're talking, I realize I must be a full. Because this all seems so obvious to me. And I'm, I've been in the past kind of thrown off by the fact that it wasn't obvious to other people. And now I realize maybe it's maybe it's just not obvious, I just, it was obvious to me at some point that this needed some sort of a fluid management style. But I might really be in the in the minority still around? Well, I
Jen 1:02:57
yeah, I just think that if there's there's a lot of training that goes into small Kids Worldwide, that if an authority figure tells you something that it's the right thing, like like, not in a bad way, like they're not purposely trying to mislead you, but if your doctor says this is what you need, very much like when I was diagnosed, or any of the first doctors that this is the right amount of insulin, and it maybe it wasn't one point, the right amount of insulin, and then she just she changed and she needed more or less or whatever. Um, I, I had a hard time questioning that now my head wasn't exactly in a place where I could take on a huge new challenge for a while. And that was understanding what was going on and actually diving into and figuring out, you know, glycemic index or, or any of the things about macros or whatever else. And it's taken me a long time to get there. But I wasn't I was, I was in a place where I think I was looking for the answer to be like, what they tell you in the beginning, insulin and carbs, you figure them out, you give the insulin, you do the math, right with whatever the doctors say. And that gives you the answer. You circle it and you turn it into the teacher like I was at a place where I wanted that to be the answer. And obviously it's not a get that I understand that. And so you combine the fact that maybe you have parents and caregivers that are having a hard time with it with doctors that have done this for ages. This is the way it was done. Before you had ways to watch graphs before you had ways to figure anything else out. I mean, it's a hard change to make. It's taken me a long time to make it and like a lot of work
Scott Benner 1:04:39
wouldn't have been easier in hindsight like in hindsight, if I'm not I'm not trying to pump up the podcast I just as an example like it in hindsight, if somebody would have left the hospital with you and said, Look, this is going to take you a couple of months, but every day I want you to listen to an episode of this and too much now you'll be done. Do you think you would have skipped over Is there a lot of that turmoil?
Jen 1:05:04
I don't know. I hope so. I would I would like to think I would, because then I probably would have had a project to focus on as opposed to memories. Yeah. Because Because I left, I left with this wonderful goodie bag of ladies who knit, like a quilt for Nora. And like, these these Christmas lights that this lady gave nor because no one liked Chris, like, I don't know, like, I left with these memories, and these, these, these kindness and this gesture, and I got stuck there for a really long time. And so I wasn't I wasn't ready to. I think personally, I wasn't ready to move on for for the challenge part of diabetes. I call it what you will, and it might have been some version of denial, I guess. But um, I don't know. Like, at the same time, I really didn't think to look somewhere else. I, in my mind, there was no way that if a doctor said do this, and they said that her results are within range of what is what is right. According to the pediatric, diabetic, whatever, whatever those guidelines, things are. Yeah, they're the guidelines. If it was in that range, like Yes, I'm the type of person that would like to strive to do better, but I wasn't in a place to do so. So I don't know, I don't know how I would have. I don't know, I would I would like to think that I would have I would like to think that if somebody gave me a book earlier that was a little bit more current rather than dated. Um,
Scott Benner 1:06:35
did not feel sick to you. Like What Did you think I have a sick kid, and she'll be sick forever.
Jen 1:06:42
No. Oh, you mean? Like on the airplane or
Scott Benner 1:06:45
No, I mean, in general, like once you're home, you don't have any real knowledge of what you're doing. Do you just have that like underlying feeling like oh, I have a child who's going to have maladies and, and struggle? No, no, it didn't feel like that. Okay,
Jen 1:07:00
no, Norris Norris something else. She is bold. And she's spirited. And she's creative. And like, I don't know, nothing holds her back. Like she just she goes and, and the whole summer like, I would look at her. And I feel like, wow, how did you just go through that? And I just went through that. And I look like a train ran over me. And you're like jumping in the pool with Barbie? Like, I don't understand. Like, I want that. So it
Scott Benner 1:07:25
all seemed it still seemed very possible. You weren't like, you weren't in a no, it
Jen 1:07:30
did it? It totally did. And that's and that's part of the reason why, like, why I think I got through because if this doesn't affect her, like, this is her body, this is going to be her life forever. It shouldn't. I shouldn't project the way I feel about my experience of that same event onto you so that you have taken on my experience. Because if you don't have that experience, I don't want you to have it. I wouldn't want anybody to have that. But especially
Scott Benner 1:07:58
her, you're a smart lady, Jen, you were able to figure through all that, while you were still like, somebody felt like you've scrambled your brain, I would imagine.
Jen 1:08:08
Well, like I said, the only thing I want out of all of this is her to do whatever she wants in life. Like I don't I don't care what it is, like if she decides that she wants to move to Paris and paint the Eiffel Tower every day. And that makes her happy and she's able to do it by all means if she wants to become a doctor and you know solve all the world's problems also fine with me like but I don't want to be the reason for for stopping her. And at that point in time, it felt like my, my emotions about all of this could easily have been turned into hers. Right?
Scott Benner 1:08:42
Well, yeah, I do think it's important not to project because you're having a completely different experience than that you're
Jen 1:08:48
like for the longest time she had one of those, you know, baby patches with the blueberries and apples or whatever. And the last thing I think she remembers on the airplane was throwing that up and there was blueberry pouch all over the towel, the blanket that they gave her, and it was nasty. And for the longest time if anybody asked her Yes, I have type one diabetes. Blueberry pouch gave it to me. Um, me she was three to three and a half like she she was trying her best to figure it out. But it took me a very long time to convince her that she did not get diabetes from eating this particular pouch on this place, right?
Unknown Speaker 1:09:27
Oh, so yeah, that's cute
Scott Benner 1:09:30
and understandable. By the way, I for a very long time thought KFC made my appendix explode. I didn't really but it was like I was driving home one day, trying to rush home for the kids. middle of the day. I was out doing something. You know how us moms are running around all day doing stuff. So I'm out doing something I'm driving home trying to be on time for the kids to get home from school. I'm viciously hungry I whipped through a drive thru and I grabbed just chicken like little chicken pieces and I'm throwing them in as I'm driving. And then four or five hours later, I'm calling an ambulance. And I couldn't. I mean, not that I am a KFC person to begin with. But if you get me anywhere near it, I'm like, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, that made one of my body parts explode. And I have like a very visceral reaction to it.
Jen 1:10:20
I'm assuming that's exactly the same as if she felt no, I think we moved on from that because Dahlia had a pouch the other day and nor asked for one so and with no comment about blueberry steamy diabetes is gonna give you diabetes or something. Yeah, exactly. So I think we moved on but but like, yeah, it was a long time before she she understood that. It wasn't
Unknown Speaker 1:10:40
that.
Scott Benner 1:10:41
Jen, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to because this was very emotional, I need to get away from you.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:49
I get it. It's a
Jen 1:10:50
lot. Like I said, it took me a long time to get here. Um, no, no,
Scott Benner 1:10:55
you feel better now. Things are smooth. You understand what you're doing? And that
Jen 1:11:00
is, yeah, we have our moments. But yeah, we know what we're doing. And we know what's going to change. And we're okay, we're together. You're happy. That's that's what matters more than almost anything else?
Scott Benner 1:11:11
Well, you said something in the very beginning that I find to be pivotal, which is, you know, you trust that what you know is going to happen is going to happen. And then those things that you expect to happen, begin to be your outcomes. And then you feel like, ooh, I did that on purpose. This is this is good. I made a decision about insulin, and what I thought was going to happen happen. That's good. Now if it if it, if it later doesn't happen that way, you can at least say to yourself, I know this wasn't me. So what are the other influences here that it could have been? It opens up your abilities to diagnose on the go? I think it sounds like you're at that. Yeah,
Jen 1:11:52
we are. We are we're doing well. We're in the process of she's so she's so proud. She's trying to do it herself. So she's got to watch now and she's getting text messages from me or from Omar, and she'll give herself insulin and she'll give herself, um, juice or Skittles, or whatever she needs at the moment or check her finger. And, and so she's in the process of trying to figure out how many carbs are in things. So we had, I think there's a case it is or something other day, and she looked at me, she's like, looking at the plate. So Mom, this looks like 400 carbs, like Okay, so now we have our next project to work on. So now we're trying to transfer
Unknown Speaker 1:12:31
the information from me.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:34
Because Lord knows there's not 400 carbs, and I'm just
Scott Benner 1:12:39
as long as her pump has that little that safety thing where it can't give her too much insulin.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:44
But it does, it does. But but I
Jen 1:12:46
see her trying so so there have been a few, you know, Miss boluses, and a few missed things because she's trying to figure out how to do it. And she wants to the minute she doesn't want to, we'll pull back but she's at home. And I think this is kind of a fun challenge for her to get out. So she's got a calculator now and she's trying to give her the card counts in certain things. And she'll kind of add them together and put that in there and then check it with me. So it's been a fun, it's a fun new phase. It's gonna be challenging, I know. But I the
Scott Benner 1:13:12
way I did it with Arden is and I still do it is we put a plate out or whatever she's having. And I'll be like, how many carbs you think that is? And then I have my guess. And then she guesses and I tell her what I thought and then we usually go with what she said just to see what will happen. And you know, unless she's way off, and I'll be like, No, I think it's more or
Unknown Speaker 1:13:33
don't think we're going with 400 carbs. No, yeah, no,
Scott Benner 1:13:36
you know, what are not 400. But, but that's a good idea.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:39
I like that. It's a very
Scott Benner 1:13:40
simple way over time, like it's not going to pay. This is not a process that will pay you back in three days. But it'll pay you back over years. When eventually I pay back quickly. Yeah, right. Exactly. Eventually, you just see the plate and you're like, that's 70 done. And, and let's go Arden had a really she's having her period right now. And so she's had like a really carb heavy day yesterday. We used a lot of insulin yesterday. And she was good. She did a good job of, of understanding how much she was eating and, and at this point to, in my mind, it's a blend of how many carbs are actually there. And how many, how much insulin it's actually going to take. I don't really care about the carb count as much as I care about like that looks like she Arden had a Bolus it was 16 units. So yeah,
Jen 1:14:32
can't word out there. Yeah. 400 carbs for Nora,
Scott Benner 1:14:35
when that happens the first time.
Unknown Speaker 1:14:37
Right?
Jen 1:14:38
Yeah, see, that's the best the problem when we're trying to I'm trying to figure how to transfer this to her obviously not fully or even partially yet. But if she's having a good stable, predictable day, whatever, then or at that period of time when she's trying to eat the no problem. I don't mind her guessing her carbs and putting it in but if she's about to have PE or if she's just finishing her school or something They like that. And it's different.
Scott Benner 1:15:01
Yeah, when the variables pop up that they can't
Jen 1:15:04
Yeah, grasp. Yeah, that those are those are in my head. Those are things I feel are no, those are things that she knows yet. Um, so
Scott Benner 1:15:12
listen, I think you're using one of the most important diabetes parenting tools that exists that people don't think about all the time and it's texting.
Jen 1:15:22
As it has been revolutionary, this year, when we had school, um, first of all, her ability to read and write obviously has taken off, and so she's able to last year she wasn't there yet with this.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:35
But
Jen 1:15:37
COVID at home, she's had a lot more tech time, on her school iPad or whatever. So she understands how it's all working. And she, she enjoys that she enjoys having the independence, she gets to have playdates by herself. Without me, she gets to do things. And I think that has been a huge incentive for her to want to kind of take some of her time back or I don't have to go pop into her room and she's, you know, wanting to just rest or read a book or whatever, I can just send her a message and she'll do it by herself.
Scott Benner 1:16:03
I think it's, um, it just it can't be it can't be stressed enough how helpful texting is for all that stuff, the feeling a little you know, autonomous and being able to make adjustments more quickly, especially like the idea of going to the nurse's office is an antiquated idea for me.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:27
Yeah, you know, yeah, well, it's
Jen 1:16:29
hard right now to like the nurse obviously her hers her health center is for for sick people. Like they blocked everything off because they wanted to have a well clinic and that clinic and so to have to try to take Nora somewhere to check her blood sugar or to give insulin is just right now impossible. So the fact that she's willing to do this by herself. She has, you know, fantastic teachers that have supported her and double check to make sure that it's going well, while she's busy at school or whatever. But it's been it's been really great.
Scott Benner 1:17:00
Can you have a really good attitude, I appreciated this conversation very much, except for the part where you made me sad and upset at the same time. And I felt nervous and anxious. And by the way, gained a completely new appreciation for action stars, because you certainly were not Bruce Willis. In that moment on the plane, you were just like a and I would have been to just so you know, I'm just saying that I think those movies aren't real, john.
Jen 1:17:26
No, no, there's no way. Like, I don't see it. Like, maybe there's a few people that would spring into action. And I was like, Oh,
Unknown Speaker 1:17:33
no, no, okay.
Scott Benner 1:17:34
I've been alive almost 50 years, and I've not once seen anybody act like Bruce Willis didn't die hard. And you would think by now, you've seen one person. I think we all do about what you did. We're like somebody hold my baby. You're a stranger here. Take it. And the thing is, I
Jen 1:17:49
did I didn't. The baby was asleep in the little bed that they have, you know, on the airplane she offered when she woke up, she came to me and she's like I have I'm a mom, I have five kids or four kids or something. And you look like you need some time with your other kids. So can I just please take her for you? Like it was the kind of thing?
Scott Benner 1:18:04
Oh, nice sexually liberal woman helped you with your five kids? Yeah.
Jen 1:18:10
It was her and her husband. It was their vacation. They were going home.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:13
Like I don't know this.
Jen 1:18:14
I remember the weirdest things about this trip. Because I literally, I do not know the name of the city we landed in. But this lady like I know her life story. She told me once. She called me a few times afterwards, like kindness, absolute kindness. Lovely.
Scott Benner 1:18:29
Very nice. All right. See, there's goodness in the world everybody, all you have to do is go into decay over a body of water airplane to find it.
Jen 1:18:39
You know, if you can't find it there then you're really not going to find it anywhere.
Scott Benner 1:18:50
First, I want to thank Jen for coming on the show and sharing that story. And for making me nervous. I want to also thank the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor which you can learn more about@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox and of course, on the pod and that free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash that you might be eligible for head over to Omni pod comm forward slash juice box last Of course, but never least touched by type one.org. There are links in the show notes of the podcast player that you're listening to right now. Or at Juicebox podcast.com.
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