Scott Benner 11/20/20 Scott Benner 11/20/20

#409 Fort Matthias

3 year old Matthias has type 1 diabetes

Chad is a young father of a newly diagnosed type 1.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:10
Hello, everyone and welcome to Episode 409 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's show is with Chad and Chad is the father of a young boy who has recently been diagnosed with Type One Diabetes. Today we're going to find out about Matthias his diagnosis, some type one in the extended family and where was his mom when he was diagnosed? Hmm. intrigue. Please remember, as you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please leave a five star rating and a wonderful review on Apple podcasts and consider telling a friend about the show. Do you have a great doctor? Or are you looking for one around your type one care, check out juice box docs.com. It's a list of listener approved physicians. Got a lot of music left here.

Gonna get the ads out of the way up front today. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. Every decision that my daughter makes about her insulin, when to use it. How much to use comes from the information that we get back from the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor absolutely an indispensable device that you can learn more about@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box. When you get there, you're going to find out about zero finger sticks, glucose readings that are right there on your smart device. customizable alerts and alarms. You'll read about Siri integration and how you can share your data with up to 10 followers. Once you're there, and you've decided you'd like to learn more you take the next step with Dexcom by giving them a tiny bit of information about yourself. That includes what kind of diabetes you have type one type two or other. And who does your insurance come from? This is interesting because many of us have commercial insurance. Some people have Medicaid or Medicare. Some people pay cash, and others get their health care through the VA. And just recently, the VA has started covering Dexcom 100% dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Check it out. Now be able to do this I've swiped up on my phone. And I know that my daughter's blood sugar is 107 that easy. If Arden's blood sugar goes over 120 we're under 70. My phone will let me know why 70 and 120. That's where we set the levels that you could set them somewhere different. It's up to you. As a matter of fact, my wife gets alerted at 130. And at she likes to know different numbers. So you can go to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box where you can find those links at Juicebox podcast.com, or right there in the show notes of your podcast player. And while you're there, you're also going to find links to the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Don't make the mistake of thinking that in this world of CGM, it's not important to have an accurate, reliable and easy to carry blood glucose meter because it absolutely is. And that's why my daughter carries the Contour Next One meter Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box small easy to handle bright light, easy to read screen test strips that give you a second chance meaning if you touch the blood strip and it doesn't go well you can go back in again without affecting the accuracy of the test. And hey, how about that accuracy? It's gold standard top of the heap. Contour next Next one.com forward slash juice box. you absolutely want to take a look at your blood glucose meter. Don't just use the first crappy one the doctor gave you the one they keep in the drawer, the one the salesperson left in the closet. You don't know how good that one is or isn't. Find out about the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You deserve accurate. You deserve easy. This one is both. It is absolutely without a doubt the best most accurate blood glucose meter that my daughter has ever used in her now. My gosh long time with Type One Diabetes she was to and she's 16 It seems like 14 years long time best meter no bull I swear to you. They are advertisers because I went and got them. They didn't come to me, a different meter came to me. And I went back to contour and said, Listen, I'm getting a good offer here for an advertisement from a reputable meter company. But I'd rather be you because you're the one we use, and you're the one we trust. It's a true story. Check them out. dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box links in your show notes, links at Juicebox podcast.com. please consider supporting the sponsors. Now. Let's get the chat.

Unknown Speaker 5:33
And

Scott Benner 5:36
it's rolling. But you know, we'll we'll take a second before we get going. I have to say you're one of the ones I was like, we're never gonna get this done.

Chad Caudill 5:43
Yeah, right. This guy do this forever ago. And I had to push it off like three times.

Scott Benner 5:48
Although it's interesting, because I do definitely know your name now. Because there's times and I'll have people on them. And I'll think of them as like, Oh, it's the lady that wrote the note about the thing or the guy that said this, you know, but I know your name. Now. As a matter of fact, when I think of a spy in any kind of a situation, you know, like James Bond type of a person. I now think of your name. It feels very elusive to me. So

Unknown Speaker 6:16
Oh, man, you've ever

Scott Benner 6:19
you've ever thought about the illiteration of Chad Caudill? It just feels very. I might be pronouncing it wrong, too. But don't don't correct me. Well, how do you say you nailed it? Oh, did I

Chad Caudill 6:29
like it? Yeah, I first person ever given the last name or first try?

Scott Benner 6:32
Well, it's not that hard. The letters spelt right out. lack of a better way of thinking, you know,

Chad Caudill 6:38
you would think that you would think that what do they do?

Scott Benner 6:40
Do they put an H in it after the day?

Unknown Speaker 6:43
Um, yeah, I

Chad Caudill 6:44
get a lot of names Caldwell, Cordell, which isn't the worst. But you know, it's an I know he.

Scott Benner 6:49
Yeah. They just they just they say the word they they think they see and they want to see in front of them instead of the one that's there. Precisely. Yeah. Okay. Well, listen, I gotta be honest with you. I'm normally that guy too. But

Unknown Speaker 7:06
well, you know, the days. Well,

Scott Benner 7:07
this time I had enough practice. Hold on one second. I have one setting on my side for me. I

Chad Caudill 7:13
wanna play guys. You.

Scott Benner 7:15
Can you hear me? Okay. So,

Chad Caudill 7:17
yeah. All right. Great. All right, my name is Chad Caudill. I am the dead of Mathias. He is my three year old type one. He was diagnosed on Valentine's Day of 2019. So this a little over a year now. And yeah, I think we're doing pretty good for for the first year, but

Unknown Speaker 7:52
I just don't know.

Chad Caudill 7:53
It's hard to tell. Matthias Matthias Yes. Where

Unknown Speaker 7:57
did you get that name?

Chad Caudill 7:59
is actually my wife came up with it. And I figured she had to go through the hassle of giving birth she'd come up with the names of the children.

Unknown Speaker 8:08
Gonna give her that one.

Unknown Speaker 8:09
I'll give her that.

Scott Benner 8:11
How very benevolent. Have you chat plus, your name's Chad. So you were probably looking for something a little more exciting than I know. My feel like my name is just the noise. Not really a name.

Unknown Speaker 8:23
scam. You know,

Chad Caudill 8:24
I'm with you. Chad's pretty bland. There's not much power behind that. So but it sounds way better.

Scott Benner 8:31
This is gonna be interesting this talk because I like you. And yet I've known so many chats that I've disliked. So I get that a lot. We'll see if that rubs off on. Really?

Unknown Speaker 8:43
Yeah,

Chad Caudill 8:44
yeah. Like I have a bunch of friends that tagged me in you know, memes on on the internet. Every time you see a Chad meme saying how much of a unlikable person they are, and put it that way.

Scott Benner 8:55
Well, listen, Chad's out there, check yourself. It could be a bad guy, or at least someone people think is a Chad. Chad, you know what later, I'll bleep out. And then everyone listening will spend forever thinking like, what's Chad? Yeah, right. So if you ever make it, I can't even say what I want to say. But you know what? Then I'll bleep the whole thing out. Do you ever take off your pants and say, Look, hanging Chad?

Chad Caudill 9:25
not thought about that before, but that's hilarious.

Scott Benner 9:27
If you no pun intended whip that out. Would you please send me a note later and tell me how it went over?

Unknown Speaker 9:33
Absolutely.

Scott Benner 9:35
Try to imagine that whole conversation with the Bleep so people are just like, Wait, what? It's gonna be great. Anyway. Okay. So Matthias is is three now or was three when he was diagnosed.

Chad Caudill 9:49
He was amongst shy of turning two and he was diagnosed. So

Scott Benner 9:52
you're really right, where Arden was age wise, but many, many years later. So this is going to be Very interesting for me, hopefully for other people too, but I'll at least have a good time talking to you. What was the process like? So first of all, how did you guys figure it out?

Chad Caudill 10:11
So, you know, when it happened, I thought it was this crazy story. But looking back and hearing some more of your other podcasts, I realize it's not all that crazy. Um, so the very first thing I noticed that now knowing what I know now, um, we were on a road trip has actually taken my wife back to work, she was gone for an extended period of time, so it was really just me and him. He had wet himself, I thought he just spilled a drink on on himself, though, because it was just soaking wet. Um, so that was kind of the first sign that looking back on it. The excessive thirst was never really a thing for me. That notice goes, he's like me, he's always drinking something. Um, and then yeah, so around November of 2018, we enrolled him in daycare. And so you know how that goes, you know, how to trade and all the germs around getting sick and everything. So he had been sick off and on since November. And so, you know, I was getting pretty good that like, he's running the fever. Yeah, I can handle fevers. He an ear infection that can handle here, infections. And then early February, he is starting to slip to those same symptoms, ear infection, fever, and whatnot. And it just, it just never went away. And then he started getting really, really lethargic. Like, he was still happy at first, but he was just not really moving around not being himself. Eventually, he just could not keep solid foods down. I took him to his primary doctor. They didn't know what it was. They just gave me some stuff. They're like, try to keep this fever down. I have written the primary doctor, that's when he started throwing up. So it took them to the urgent care. That's down, not too far from my house. And they raised some test, he did a chest x rays on him. They didn't know what it was. They just gave him some suffered nausea. We came back that same night and the primary care. And this kid was just up all night Sleeping Bear with me. He's up all night. Going up on and off.

Scott Benner 12:11
He was so well into DK.

Chad Caudill 12:13
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I got up the next morning. And that was pretty. Pretty sad. We like we were going to go to the hospital anyway. But I got up with them. And I remember, like I said, ingrained in my memory now of holding him and looking in the mirror. And this kid was just staring back at me in the mirror just like scared for his life. Like I didn't see it until they know how skinny he had gotten, like his eyes or something. And so,

Scott Benner 12:39
ya know, maybe you had a tough time. Was your wife not home at that point?

Chad Caudill 12:45
Uh, yeah, she wasn't home. So my wife left.

Scott Benner 12:48
Tell me why I just really want to feel like she's, you know, like off murdering people for the CIA or something like that, because I'm sure whatever she's really doing is not as exciting as what I'm Anyway, what does she tell me about? Like, it's just interesting that she's gone for extended periods.

Chad Caudill 13:04
Oh, yeah. She was gone from November of 2018. until June of 2019.

Scott Benner 13:09
Wow, what does she like? Can you tell me what she does without being too specific?

Chad Caudill 13:14
So yes, she was in basic training for military. Yeah, that's not as exciting as what I was thinking.

Scott Benner 13:20
Okay. But it does make more sense than when I was thinking. Like, it would be weird if you came on a podcast to tell people that your wife was a hitman for the CIA. Yeah.

Chad Caudill 13:28
International spy.

Unknown Speaker 13:30
Exactly.

Scott Benner 13:33
Oh, my gosh, Chad, you're touching something on the table. Stop yourself. Okay. Oh, no, don't worry about it. You're doing great. Sometimes in the beginning, the first 15 minutes are interesting. People get a little nervous and you can feel them fidgeting or touching things or stuff like that. But it's no big deal. It takes me out of it more than anything. It breaks my It breaks my Bob. Yeah, don't worry. I really appreciate what so your story is crazy. Like that's and crazy because it with the exception of the vomiting. You pretty much just told my experience of art and being diagnosed. Really, from age two. We were on a trip. all wet in a car seat thought they spilled something that literally all happened to me. And I did see Arden's primary care who thought well, didn't think but was confused by the fact that Arden had coxsackievirus. And so, you know, symptoms mimic that well enough being sick, that nobody looked any farther. And we didn't have the like you did better than we did. I didn't know how skinny she was looking at her until hindsight. But it you know, I do remember. I do remember bringing it up once to Kelly and just saying I forget how I put it. It would be nice if I was ever serious. I guess In my life, I said something. I said something Kelly, like, are we training her to be a runway model or something? And eat? No, because she was just like, you could see her ribs. And instead of like, you know, instead of me thinking, that's probably a bad thing we should pay attention to um, yeah, I was making funny about it. So, but I know what you mean that when you know, I only know through pictures, but when you look and you think I am looking at a person who's about to die, and I don't I didn't realize it till just now.

Chad Caudill 15:27
It's scary, man.

Scott Benner 15:28
Yeah, no kidding. Well, you did a great job. Are you a younger guy? How old are you?

Chad Caudill 15:33
I'm 29.

Scott Benner 15:34
You did a good job like this. I mean, by the time you're in your late 20s, you, you're almost a fully formed person. So I I know I sort of trusted myself around 30 ish. But would you say I'm sorry? What do you think?

Chad Caudill 15:46
So I don't know if I go that far. I was.

Scott Benner 15:49
Ellison 10 more years, man, you're really gonna have it?

Chad Caudill 15:52
That's what I got you

Scott Benner 15:55
really pull it together? How do you handle your wife being away during that? what's the what's the Is it a communication thing? Does she come back? How do you do that?

Chad Caudill 16:06
So when he was initially diagnosed, the first few weeks, um, oddly enough, she she got the call me the day that we were in the hospital, and that being diagnosed. So it's like, Hey, I haven't talked to you in weeks, I love you, by the way, your son is diagnosed type one diabetic. After that, she graduated basic training, she goes off to her job training, we get to talk a little more. So she's like in the loop. But I mean, she doesn't have the experience. So I mean, I'm telling her I'm trying to teach her about it. Um, I got on the Dexcom pretty early. So introduce her to the follow ups, as you can see sugars. And, yeah, it's kind of how we handled the first few months.

Scott Benner 16:48
So were you getting settled around diabetes? before? We keep calling her your wife? What's her name? I'm sorry, Tara, Tara, before Tara gets home. Like, do you? Is it weird to have a, like a novice walk into the house and be, you know, your child's parents? So they get an equal say, but you have all this extra? I guess, intuition that she doesn't have at the moment. I

Chad Caudill 17:15
yeah, it was a bit weird, because that, like you said, I was definitely starting to get a little bit of a handle on it, like by no means an expert, but a little bit of a handle on it. And so when she came back, we obviously we took my thighs at a daycare, and she took over his primary care while I was at work. Yeah. And I told her before I went back to work, like the first day I left them with her is like, Hey, I'm not gonna mean to be intrusive. But we're texting you a lot.

Scott Benner 17:43
We're not really leaving you in technically charge of anything. Just so you know. This is a very interesting role reversal. Because most of the people that I speak to and I think most of the people overall, generally, the roles are reversed. Usually, it's it's normally the mother, you know, saying, like making you hear them, when they come on. They're like, they'll they'll make those sideways jokes about their, their husbands, and we don't really let him do anything. You know, he's just he feels like he's helping is that vibe all the time? Or? Or he doesn't really get it? But I'm guessing I want to know how quickly did she come up to speed and then turn and then turn to you and go, okay, you're not in charge anymore. It's me

Chad Caudill 18:24
really, really quickly. Within a few weeks, like she was, she was right there I was at was it at that point, he had already got him on Dexcom. And so we don't do any finger sticks and worry about that. So that really helped. And then we had just started on the pod to write when she came back. So she didn't have to go through all that the beginning pain steak of all these different finger sticks throughout a day and having to stick a needle in your kids. So I say she got off easy. She won't say that she won't say

Scott Benner 18:56
Well, I think you're making a valid point. Honestly, there's the the learning curve around just getting bazel set up on a pump is it's a month of like, agile, you're just like, uh, you know, constantly I'm never gonna get this right. Or, you know, that's really something else. How did he make out in that gear? Did he keep thriving, gaining weight? or How long did it take you to? I mean, I guess my question would be, are you in a comfortable place with this house right now? Do you feel good about where you're at? Oh, yeah, I

Chad Caudill 19:27
think I think we're doing pretty good. I said, a little over a year into this. And he's doing great. He's been a champ throughout this whole process. It didn't matter if we were no MDI, or when we switch over to Omni pod like he'd never minded getting the shot. He never cried about it. He's he hated a lot better than I would have. That would know it. tough kid.

Scott Benner 19:49
I mean, listen, his mom didn't live with him for a number of months early in his life. He was probably like, it's just me and this guy. I better pull out other quick

Chad Caudill 19:59
right? It's gotta be, shall we? This

Scott Benner 20:02
guy doesn't know I'm watching. He's playing PlayStation and watching really stupid stuff on television. I'm not certain I can count on him. Okay, I felt, you know, obviously I was, I've been a stay at home dad for an incredibly long time and over 20 years, and that feeling that you have in the hospital, you know, in the hands of the baby and you think, yo, you're making a mistake, like we're gonna kill this thing like you don't know yet. You don't know us. But this is probably against the law to get, give us this baby. That feeling as crazy as that was in the hospital that day. And I do remember really vividly. The day I took my wife to the train station, dropped her off for work, and drove home and walked back into a condominium. That was just me and Cole. And the stillness was really still and I thought, oh, what am I doing? Like, you know, I don't have no, I don't really know what I'm doing. You know what I mean? Like, there's, you know, just like you said, with your wife, Tara, she comes back and boom, she falls right into it, you know, put you back in your place. She's taken over, you know, like, I don't have any of that built into me that's wired into me. Like, I'm just I just for a year tried to keep him from, you know, getting hurt and making sure he ate he was clean. Like it was so basic how I handled it being a dad instead of a mom. I figured it out eventually. But I was wondering when she when Tara came back and sort of you go back to work and she's doing you know, she's doing the home stuff with with Matthias was that hard for you? Had you fallen into a spot where you thought this is my job? I want to keep doing this? Or was there part of you that got in the car. The first thing was like, who dodged a bullet there? And then went to work? How does that and she doesn't know that she'll never know, just be honest.

Unknown Speaker 21:56
Right? Um,

Chad Caudill 21:58
I would honestly say a little bit of both. Um, I I was really controlling of his care. Obviously, I was I was the primary one doing it. However, I'm, I must preferred her watching him versus him being stuck in daycare, because bless their hearts, they did the best he could. But they have 30 other kids to watch as well. They couldn't really give him the attention that he really needed to kind of control blood sugar. Yeah. So that's what I was really thankful for is like, even though she didn't know exactly what she was doing at the time, she was just a text away the correct the issue. mersa is watching my son's blood sugar go to 400 and hasn't gotten a shot in an hour since.

Scott Benner 22:40
Gotcha. So when she was in basic training, you were using daycare with him and going to work still. And so you were just running kind of like a single dad life.

Chad Caudill 22:49
Yeah, it was a it was nine months of being a single dad. It definitely, uh, definitely respect single parents a lot more.

Scott Benner 22:55
It's, it doesn't it feel like so my obviously I've never been a single father, but my wife had a, an intense job. She still does, but she's older now. So she, she does not just dive into it the way she used to quite as she did intense job that she had to travel far for. So my wife's commute was 20 minutes in a car. hour 15 on a train, 15 minute walk one way. Oh, wow. And then back again. So she would do three hours or so of just commuting and then work very full days, not just eight hours. So there, it was not uncommon for Kelly to leave the house at six in the morning and get home at 10 o'clock at night. And I always talk about there's this spot right around parents, I'll know this or in that situation, there's a spot right around dinnertime around five or six in the afternoon, where it feels like you've been with the baby for a whole day. And it's starting over without sleeping like nobody came in and, you know, just held them for a minute or you know, gave you a break. And it felt like two days in one day. And so I imagine you had that same feeling right? Like, how, how was How were your days broken up during that nine months?

Chad Caudill 24:16
Um, yeah, exactly kind of what you're saying. I mean, they were very, very long. But I mean, the key to me was getting a routine going. Um, so we'd have certain things we did every day and I just kind of we were having fun together and everything but that just kind of kept my mind in check. like, Alright, we got to make this checkpoint, it's going to give it to the day and then that's going to get me through the week, and so on and so forth. Until you know my relief finally came

Scott Benner 24:42
What did the weekends look like that just you and and the baby laying on the carpet next to each other?

Chad Caudill 24:49
We did a bit more than that once. That was a good amount of it. But once once he got the film better, we definitely made trips out to the parks and everything. So we made sure we stayed busy and By the day, which we're just entirely with Google,

Scott Benner 25:02
I had this one sort of rule that I used while I was doing it, where if during the winter months, the weather broke for any reason, meaning, you know, you got one of those, like, 52 degree days, you know, for the young people before global warming, it got cold for a long stretch of time. Maybe I'm explaining this wrong, and you'd get trapped inside for months at a time. And every once in a while, out of nowhere, it would just be 55 degrees one day, maybe you don't, I mean, like, for no reason. And I would just make it a rule if I woke up that day. And it didn't matter what we had to do, if the weather broke like that, we left the house and we did something all the time, like, we were frequently one of 10 people, you know, in the Philadelphia zoo in October, or November, you know, because it just got warm out of nowhere, you know, February, that kind of thing. So some of my favorite memories are, you don't realize, but when you're, you know, at a zoo, for example, there's so many people streaming by, you can't really stop. But when there's quite literally 30 people at the zoo, you can just make sure you're there when they feed the lions and sit there, like you own those lions and enjoy that, like watch that happen. So I have like memories of coal and different places where we just sat and, you know, witness things together. And I watched him see so many things for the first time, but not in a rushed way. That was I love that. I mean, that was a real, I don't really use this word. But I felt like a blessing to me like to be able to see that. Whereas with art in the first couple of you know, after she was to those next couple of years, three and four, and, you know, leading into kindergarten, even, I felt like I was just learning about diabetes like that my whole day was either being overwhelmed by getting my ass kicked by it or figuring something out. And constantly feeling like I was about to kill her somehow, that feeling stuck with me for such a long time. And I still don't know that it's completely gone. I might have gotten it ingrained in me by mistake. I don't feel that way anymore. Like I don't constantly feel like I'm going to kill her. I just walked away from her, you know, a half an hour ago to come talk to you. And her blood sugar 77. And it's good number. Yeah. And I was just like, she'll be fine. Like, I looked for a second. I was like, you know, I said to her, like, do you want food before I go up like really don't have a lot of time. And so we looked at her options. And she just thought, I don't care. You know what I mean? Like, I don't I don't want what you're offering me quickly. So no, and now I look her blood sugar's 103. And she genuinely I wish I made this up. She just texted me, I'm gonna squeeze in a workout while I wait. And I'm not worried about that. But still, I'm sort of like a skittish animal. You don't I mean, who's been like, you know, when you when you rescue a dog and forever, you're like, something's not quite right about Billy. You know, like, there's still I think that's in me a tiny little bit. Because there just was No, I did not tell this long story to say something like this, but I just, there was nothing like this podcast, I just was by myself trying to figure out diabetes with a meter that looked like it came out of a bubblegum machine and a handful of syringes. You know, so? I don't know, it was just it was an interesting world. How did you figure things out? What was your pathway to getting it straight? doctor's advice, internet, what do you do?

Chad Caudill 28:39
Um, doctors advises, as you said, many times I says rules to have your kid not die. So I didn't strictly go off that I'm lucky enough. I have a really great support system in my family. So my mother in law, and my wife's grandmother actually came and stayed with me for about a month after he was diagnosed. So my mother in law is type one as well. So her experience was phenomenal. And then my wife's grandmother is a retired registered nurse. So that kind of helped. So I had a great support system going on there. For fun that I just dived right into to the online community, you know, doing several different pages, just the job, all the knowledge I could. There wasn't long, a couple of weeks into being on the online community that, you know, obviously, I got the hint to listen to the podcast. And it gave me what you're doing is really helped a lot of people. I mean, it definitely revitalize the way I take care of my son. So that's that's kind of been the way our way forward with it.

Scott Benner 29:44
Oh, thank you. That's, that's nice to hear. So I wish I was the kind of person who would say plot twist, because I would have said it, just that and so your mother in law has type one as well.

Unknown Speaker 29:55
Yes, she does.

Scott Benner 29:56
So you told Tara that the baby had diabetes when she sort of like the alpha that might

Chad Caudill 30:01
Oh no, honestly, neither one of us ever really expected it. I mean, we figured if it was going to be passed on the family, I mean, somewhere on her side, we've seen it other than just her, her mother. And it never really registered.

Scott Benner 30:16
I wonder if it, I don't want to say something like, it's a rule, but I do see generation skipping sometimes, which makes me I was like, look at my son. And I'm like, you know, be careful. Like, when you make a baby. I don't know what to say, go find a girl who's got no endocrine issues in her life. Like, write your first AP, like anybody in your extended family have bigger problems with their thyroid, anything like that at all. Make some notes off to the side, like you're pretty and all and I like talking to you. But let me just ask you for a second about your thyroid health. Now, it's that's interesting. So your mother in law, but your mother in law, I'm assuming, you know, is in her 50s at least. Right? So she got How old was she when she was diagnosed them when I take a U turn here for a second?

Chad Caudill 31:12
thing around five. She said diabetes by 50 years.

Scott Benner 31:15
Okay, so she's had diabetes back before. Like, my meter wouldn't look good to her the one they gave me for Arden when we were leaving the hospital. So how did her experience help? And how does your experience look different than how she manages?

Chad Caudill 31:38
I'm really hurt. Her experience is just kind of been helping me keep my head on my shoulder. So she definitely let me let me take charge of his care. I wish he would advise me if I had questions. Um, but really what helped was he helped me the most with his, uh, you know, those late night conversations who would have just explained the different questions that I would have? I would ask her. Um, so that's how she really helped me through it.

Scott Benner 32:07
has, has her management changed any since you found the podcast?

Unknown Speaker 32:13
So

Chad Caudill 32:14
yeah, a little bit. When I first met her, and relatively diabetic, she was, you know, traditional MDI finger sticks and pins. Um, she has now moved up to she's on the library. Mm hmm. And she's still doing pins while she's on pins now, instead of syringes. This is her like intern Teresa said she did that.

Scott Benner 32:37
She should check out that in pen.

Chad Caudill 32:40
You know, I tried to talk with her about that. Um, I just don't think she's there yet.

Scott Benner 32:44
Yeah, that's it. Well, I, you know, I know, people who have had diabetes for a really very long time. And I always use my friend who's passed now Mike, as an example. But his ability to be flexible around diabetes was non existent. It was I think those poor people who were diagnosed at a certain time, you know, it's almost like, it's almost like the friend you have from the war, you know what I mean? Like, there's he sees the world differently than everybody else. And there's a good reason for it. I think, I think that when people have had type one for a very long time find this podcast and make an adjustment. That's an amazing accomplishment for them to break free of what ends up being years and decades of, like fear and, and the safeguards, I should put quotes around safeguards that they put in place. Because they were coming from a completely different angle, like, all the stuff that you and I can see was completely it didn't exist for them. None of that data, none of that understanding. When you hear them talk about diabetes, they just say things like, you know, I get dizzy sometimes. Or I try not to drive unless I've eaten like, it's this such vague. It's terrible that that is the the perspective they got stuck in, you know, that time in history with diabetes that that they had to come up through. But yeah, when they break free of that, it's amazing. I bet your mother in law continues on because she if she got some gear show, she might keep going. You also she might one day look at Matthias as a one say and be like, Hey, wait a minute. What's the range? All right, tell me again, what you're doing. You know. It's really cool. He's still really young. So what do you feel like his understanding of his situation? Isn't How do you you talk to him about it?

Chad Caudill 34:35
Uh, yeah, it's really been amazing. It's been like the last month or two that he's starting to get little pieces of it. Um, so we'll tell him before you eat like, Hey, we have to, we have to Pre-Bolus you have to give your medicine before you eat. And he's like, Okay, and then he'll look at from that time and be like, I want snack. Can you Pre-Bolus me. That's excellent. So he's starting to get there. But I mean, again, he's three years old, so he doesn't have a full comprehension of what's going on yet.

Scott Benner 35:09
Yeah, he hasn't pulled you aside yet and said that I don't like my time and range here between three and 6am. Can you work on my bazel? Push?

Chad Caudill 35:17
Exactly. He just knows more than routine. But we have what we have to go through that. How

Scott Benner 35:21
much does the way?

Chad Caudill 35:23
I use about 37 pounds right now.

Scott Benner 35:26
Wow, what is what does he get for bazel? Is it like around point two or point three an hour?

Chad Caudill 35:31
Yeah, I got him on point to an hour from 6am to 8pm. And then it goes down. 2.15 from 8pm to 6pm.

Scott Benner 35:40
Okay. Would you mind sharing? How do you where's this a one c falling right now.

Chad Caudill 35:46
So we didn't get to go to our actual endo appointment last month. Right. everything going on? Um, but the last time it did get his actual agency done. It was 6610. Wow, that's excellent.

Scott Benner 35:58
That's great. He's He's growing and gaining weight and all that. Oh, yeah. He's definitely good for you, man. Congratulations. That's really that's well done in a year with a three year old. Me came a long way. I, I just keep imagining that moment when your mother in law and thairis grandmother must have gotten in a room together and been like, Alright, listen. We weren't thrilled when she married him. But now we got to do something. Because what are you gonna leave this guy alone with the baby with it? I know, I know, man. I could see it on people's faces when Arden was diagnosed, you know, like, the guy who would look at his kid skinny and make a heroin model joke is now in charge of the child with type one. You know, like, I know, people looked at me for a while, like, wow, he's gonna mess this up. And they might not have been wrong, to be perfectly honest with you. But it's, you know, for anybody who's older in their 50s, you know, and has kids who are getting close to married age, and they know what I'm talking about. Their kids come home dating, and they leave and you inevitably turn to each other and go, Oh, I hope it doesn't. He doesn't end up with that one. She wasn't following the conversation. Even if you come off great. Even if you're like, Chad is great. He's terrific. He's blah, blah, blah, you add that health piece and suddenly, you know, you get distilled down into We can't leave that baby alone with that boy. Right. You know, and you know yourself. Reasonable right chat?

Chad Caudill 37:29
Yeah, that's pretty reasonable. agitation. Yeah.

Scott Benner 37:33
I didn't mind when those people looked at me like that. I was like, oh, they're paying attention. I'm not wrong. No, no, no, they're not wrong at all. I probably should not be in charge of this. So do you guys have now that, you know, the pendulum swung the other way? Although I guess I should ask this tower get deployed? Or how does? Like how does that all work?

Unknown Speaker 37:53
Um, no, she's

Chad Caudill 37:54
she's not got deployed or anything. She's in the Army Reserves. So she works one weekend, a month and two weeks out of the summer. That's great. So she's more more of a stay at home mom than anything.

Scott Benner 38:06
Could she kill you? Does she Do you ever worry about that, that they taught her something that one day you'll mouth off and you'll find yourself on the ground like wondering what happened?

Chad Caudill 38:15
She likes to think that she can do that. However, I'm in the army as well. Oh, and I've been in a bit longer. So I think I got the job.

Scott Benner 38:23
I didn't realize that. So are you are you in like now? Yeah,

Chad Caudill 38:28
I'm active duty.

Scott Benner 38:29
Okay. That's excellent. Are you guys in the Virginia ish area?

Chad Caudill 38:34
Um, so we're in Georgia, just outside of Atlanta. Okay. Yeah, I currently work as a as an army recruiter. So I get a pretty chill gig for a while. Oh, no

Scott Benner 38:44
kidding. You get to go. Uh, well, those kids must come in so enthusiastic to begin with. Right? Is it? Is it really that hard to get them to go? There

Chad Caudill 38:54
is definitely not the kids. The kids aren't the issues. Parents. Oh, convincing the parents love the kids. You on your music? Sorry.

Scott Benner 39:02
Ah, that that makes sense. Because I've heard my wife say how do we get him to Canada safely? Yes, she said that right after the last election actually. That's it. So that's really did you serve? How's your service gone so far? What's it? What's it been like?

Unknown Speaker 39:23
It's been great. I

Chad Caudill 39:24
mean, I'm loving it. I've been in for nine years now. I got a letter more to go. That'll be it. I'm not I'm not doing a day over 20. Where,

Unknown Speaker 39:33
where did you Where did you train initially.

Chad Caudill 39:37
So initially, I went to Fort Knox Kentucky was my initial trading. But I've been a little bit of everywhere since then. I mean, I've been to Korea, Japan, Hawaii, Egypt, Israel, Syria. I mean,

Scott Benner 39:50
any favorite places when you were moving around?

Chad Caudill 39:54
So we were in Hawaii for two and a half years. So that was a pretty good gig. Yeah, getting off work at 330. And going having a sense that day. In the beach, Katie,

Scott Benner 40:01
I'm gonna say that anybody who felt badly for you prior to that statement has just been like, whatever. And also, I'm assuming people listening. We're just like Fort Knox. I thought that was just a place out of old movies where they kept gold.

Chad Caudill 40:13
There, right?

Unknown Speaker 40:15
I know, we used that, that I was like, that's a real place.

Chad Caudill 40:17
It's a real place.

Scott Benner 40:19
I really don't nothing. I shouldn't be in charge of this podcast anyway, that's okay. So I guess what I want to understand now is are you Is it a 5050 split talking about diabetes now? Or has it swung more terrorists way? And if it has you mind that?

Chad Caudill 40:42
Um, so I definitely think it's swung more tears way at this point. Like, I'm still pretty involved. But he's gotten to the point that where she's really good at his care as well. Now, when I go to work, I don't stress looking at, you know, my, my Dexcom follow up every five minutes. She's got this.

Scott Benner 41:00
It's excellent. But does it hurt? Does it feel like you gave something away that you didn't want to?

Chad Caudill 41:07
Might not? Not really, I mean, that, just because I know that she's so good at it? Yeah. I mean, if if she wasn't able to keep his level of care to where I think I was able to do it, then yeah, at that point, it would hurt me a little more, but she's just as good at this as I am.

Scott Benner 41:24
Excellent. It's a it's an uncomfortable conversation. I'm glad you don't have to have it with I do hear a lot of a lot of the notes that I get are from are from parents who were just like, look what one of my you know, the spouse just don't understand or the people I really feel terrible for and I'm trying to get somebody to come on to talk about it, are divorced parents, when Try to imagine one of them has a great handle on the diabetes, the other one doesn't. And now the child's going back and forth, and they go from this amazing care to higher bouncing blowers, and the kid doesn't feel good. And you know, the spouse doesn't want to list it's it turns into it's a real nightmare. So it sounds like you guys have it together, though. That's really cool. Any plans for more children?

Chad Caudill 42:09
Yes, we're actually expecting our second child or no,

Scott Benner 42:12
it's like I knew that. But I didn't.

Chad Caudill 42:15
Yeah, we have or we don't know if it's a boy or girl yet, but maybe number two will be expected in December this year. So now when you

Scott Benner 42:25
have a first child whose first name is Matthias, and is there a shortening of Matthias, is there something you call him around the house?

Chad Caudill 42:32
Um, so we realize eventually, so we get shortened down to Matt. We just we haven't gotten there yet.

Scott Benner 42:37
Gotcha. So it will the next child get like, I find this interesting. Well, they get like a super different name to or when you go the opposite direction. It'll be Hey, this is my son, Matthias and my daughter Jill did.

Chad Caudill 42:54
So definitely not. If it's a boy, we don't know what we'll name them yet. We haven't thought that far in events. But if it's a girl, my wife's had that name picked out since before we get together. So again, I don't have much say in it. But it'll be an Aveda

Scott Benner 43:08
debayer. Well, she's good at this.

Chad Caudill 43:10
Yeah, she's got this name thing down, Pat.

Scott Benner 43:12
No kidding. We use the book. It's a no, you flip through a name. But you're like, Hey, this is interesting.

Chad Caudill 43:19
People, we don't, we don't have much choice to change it now anyway, because my mother in law's already quilted a blanket with that name on it. So we're kind of stuck to it.

Scott Benner 43:29
We mentioned it, she made this blanket. You know, we changed our mind and about the seventh month of the pregnancy, but there was nothing we could do. So sorry. And it's funny how names no matter what usually people just very strongly either love their name or don't like it. It's It's interesting, how it how it breaks up. But yeah, that's amazing. Congratulations. You're building the whole little thing there. How is Atlanta right now? Because it went crazy there for a while a couple weeks ago. Is it settled in? Or? Oh,

Chad Caudill 44:01
yeah, things are starting to get back to a somewhat normal Um, so I try not to venture into the actual city as least as possible. Um, so I'm about 1520 miles out of it. It's still pretty decent city but no people are going about back about their lives. I just went to the park last night, they look around and kids are on the baseball field again and tossing baseballs back and forth. So it's kind of refreshing to see

Scott Benner 44:25
interesting Oh, that's great. It liked it. I hate to say this because if the answer is yes, I feel terrible that I don't know. Did we? Did you come to the jdrf event in Atlanta was when I was there.

Chad Caudill 44:35
I really wanted to but I was at school at the time first in my army training so was able to make it okay.

Scott Benner 44:40
Oh, that's okay. I mean, sorry if I guess it's all right.

Chad Caudill 44:46
Yeah, I mean, right.

Scott Benner 44:48
Under the army man like listen, I love you knows a guy from a podcast coming down. I really I need the day yesterday. Yeah, right. You imagine never leave the same.

Unknown Speaker 44:59
Excellent. Well,

Scott Benner 45:02
sorry, I just made myself laugh for reasons that I don't understand. So what are your concerns? Or like goals moving forward? Like what are the things you see as because you talked earlier about having a plan, meeting goals, and that got you to the next thing. And the next thing? How do you see the diabetes? Like, like, what do you think the next thing is for him?

Chad Caudill 45:23
Um, so right now just keep refining what we're doing. You know, within being so tiny, it's things change on a daily basis. So we're constantly having to dial in bazel and insulin to carb ratios. So right now, as you're finding that, eventually, once, you know, there's some more advances technology, like I'd definitely be interested in getting him on horizon when it becomes available. But I mean, I know when it first comes out, it's not gonna be approved for anyone lesson six, I think so. That's gonna be a minute.

Scott Benner 45:51
So, you know, I don't know, obviously, I don't know how this is gonna go. On. My wife is bothering me Hold on a second. I can't, she's got to go back to work. I gotta be.

Chad Caudill 46:08
Yeah, it was a, I was stuck at home for about two months. Before I go back to work. I was definitely going stir crazy.

Scott Benner 46:16
It's not even that it's just she's two together. So I can't just be like, wishy washy for five seconds with something or let something go for a day, because she's so well planned out and thought out that I don't know. It's just he can't be can't screw off for five minutes, because she notices, and then I get that look like why are you not handling this thing? And I'm like, if you weren't home, you wouldn't know this wasn't, you know? Yeah, right. Yeah. But I'm sorry. So I agree with you about horizon. I'm excited for Arden to be able to try it as well. I also what I was gonna say is, in the past, when stuff comes out, and it's not okayed for pediatric ages, your doctor can still write a prescription for it and use it off label technically. And that's not I don't that's not out of the realm of possibility. I don't know how it's gonna go in the beginning. I'm not sure, you know, house stringently, the doctors are gonna stick to that or if that's going to be possible, but it has happened with tech in the past. So maybe, maybe it won't be as long of a wait, as you imagine.

Chad Caudill 47:21
Hopefully,

Scott Benner 47:22
yeah. Are you excited about the algorithm idea? And?

Chad Caudill 47:26
Oh, yeah, I mean, I mean, right now, I mean, that seems like it's kind of the way forward to me. I mean, we're, we're not as a doctor save when you talk about time. We're not five years from here? I don't think so. Yeah. working, working with an algorithm and getting, you know, that whole closed loop system going on that? That seems fantastic to me.

Scott Benner 47:45
Yeah, I agree. I think you're gonna I think you'll really enjoy it. And I think you'll have it sooner than you think you think you will as well. I would think, in my mind, if I was in your situation, I just hope to have it on him. And working well before kindergarten. Like that's

Chad Caudill 47:59
that that's really my hope, right? There is a I want to make sure we can have some sort of system like that in place before he goes to school because I'm a trusting God. But I don't want strangers and charging my kids blood sugar, if there's something on the market that could stop that from happening. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:14
I feel the same way about Arden in college, just you know, let this be running smoothly. before she leaves for school, you know, that that she talks about? I don't know what she's going to end up doing. But when Arden talks about going to college, she talks about like, she wants to learn about clothing and fashion. And, you know, so she throws around things like New York, and every once in a while she's like, could I go to school in France? And we were like, I don't know who's gonna pay for that. But we also don't want to tell her No, sir. Like, yeah, I mean, sure if it works out, you know, by works out. I mean, we dig up the floorboards and find a bunch of money that a pirate left here. Which probably won't happen because we built this house. And I don't remember there being a pirate around, I guess, snuck into the middle of the night? Or what if someone came from Fort Knox and left gold? That would be like,

Unknown Speaker 49:06
Hey, there, yep.

Scott Benner 49:06
You can't believe I didn't know that was a real place. It's very strong possibility that your episode is gonna be called Fort Knox is real. Just because I feel like this is really what I learned so far. But I was so it's interesting when when someone's so young, it's hard to like, look out that far into the future around diabetes, because the technology changes so quickly. And you don't know if Matthias is gonna end up being a kid who's super like, Yeah, I got this or if he's gonna be one of those kids who's like a, like, I don't want to be involved in this or rebels against it. This. I mean, is that crept into your thinking yet, or if I just added a concern to your life you didn't have?

Chad Caudill 49:48
Oh, no, it's definitely crept in my thinking. Um, I mean, obviously, I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but it's definitely something that like, for lack of better terms, I guess expecting to happen, because I hear far too often. People go through burnout, which I understand I mean, I, I'm not even one with type one diabetes, and it's mind numbing to me that the take care of him some days that things just go wrong constantly. So being the one actually having it. I mean, I can understand how it's pretty easy. It hasn't burned out.

Scott Benner 50:18
Yeah. It's tough when you have to think at 830. At night, when somebody is eating something, you have to think, Oh, god, this has to go right. I can't be up till two o'clock in the morning. You know, like that feeling? Like, I'm tired. I gotta get up in the morning. And people have jobs like, I'm, I'm up early. But the truth is, is that, you know, once I get up, and I get my kid, you know, my daughter off to school, and Kelly starts working. You know, I mean, if I'm exhausted from overnight, I move I'll send a note to somebody be like, hey, I need to move your podcast episode to a different day or something. It's not, it's not like I've got to go dig a ditch after that, you know? But for there are people you know, like you and plenty of other people that have to get up and have to go to work and it's a thing they've got to go do and commute and everything and I don't know, it's just that's the little stuff to me is is is mind numbing, you know, and could throw burnout for adults. That's always the side of it, I think about for parents is that they run out of time to rest and to relax, you know?

Chad Caudill 51:21
Yeah, I feel you mean that I had the exact same going, Zack same thing going last night. The sugar was being kind of stubborn high. So I was up from, like, 230 to five, trying to get him back to where it needed to be. I see terrorists

Scott Benner 51:35
in charge. Unless it's three o'clock in the morning. Hmm. Well,

Chad Caudill 51:41
I wake up to the alarms laser. And she does she's a pretty heavy sleeper. So I tend to do the nighttime, she'll take the daytime,

Scott Benner 51:47
nice. That's my life. Just so you know, like, you know, Kelly's like, it's always like, do it my way do it. Like I know better. Bob about four in the morning. She's like, whatever you want to do. Oh, my God. Now you don't have an opinion right? Now, I could barely wake up, I could use your opinion. Now. It's tough, because, you know, we did. It took me a number of years to figure out what I was doing completely. And the last piece that I got right, was overnight. I know that that seems strange, because how I talked about it. But and but I don't even mean all the way overnight, I mean, into those like midnight to two o'clock hours. Because I was trying to figure out how to stay so tight with tolerances, that the that at the end of the day of using insulin, sometimes it would go wrong on me. And it will always go wrong than when it did. And I've never been more grateful in my life to get that thing that part figured out. Because I think I was up against how long I was going to be able to exist like that. Like, I don't know how much longer it would have been until I just like made a weird noise and fell over. You know, it was tough. I actually was I don't know if I've ever talked about this or not on here. But I had a problem with my iron two that took like a year or two to figure out. So at some point, I was staying up, you know, sometimes a lot not getting a ton of sleep. And the level of ferritin in my blood was like, I don't want to get this wrong, but in the 20s like incredibly low. And so doctors all assumed my iron was low and I'm an adult so they just all assumed I had cancer. So I got an incredible battery of tests the entire time I'd look at every doctor going I really think I just need to iron you know like they'd be like no let's do this first let's do this. I had like a scope down my throat one that went the opposite direction I had to swallow a swallow a camera like literally like a pill with a camera in it. I did all of these things and at the end they were like you should probably just get this iron if you Why did we not try that first? Exactly. But they didn't. And so I I existed for like a year during that testing where every day by one o'clock in the afternoon I thought I was gonna pass out I was so tired I couldn't get rested I couldn't like if I walked up the steps I'd be out of breath because there was no no oxygen going around my body because anyway that because of the iron and so when I got that iron I was like I'm good now baby like it felt like somebody like turned my dimmer all the way up. I was like let's do it you know and I took that little bit of energy you know and fine tuned everything and now I sleep like a baby so and diabetes is not very frequently get in the way of sleep around here. Which is excellent because I almost 15 it was gonna kill me seriously

Chad Caudill 54:51
Yeah, I think I think we're, we're getting there to that point. I mean, we still have to make some minor adjustments um, but mean so long has nothing goes completely crazy man. His sugars usually stays pretty stable throughout the night last night. I think he just had an excess of protein on board, which is kind of causing him to say a little higher. Yeah. But for the most part, we got to doubt it for nighttime.

Scott Benner 55:13
Like it's exciting that people know to think about protein, because in the past, you know, what someone would have said in the past is, I don't know, just Hi. I couldn't figure it out. Like, you know, I don't know why, you know, diabetes, you tell that goes. And you're like, now there was some protein in there. What did to cause one of those, like, 180 rises? That was hard to impact?

Chad Caudill 55:33
Oh, yeah, it was one of those 151 50 to 155. And they're just trying to bump it down, but wasn't doing much. So yeah, he got up to about 180. before they start coming back down,

Scott Benner 55:46
the food gets thrown finally. You haven't hit any kind of real? Well, maybe you have, but have you had any growth spurts? And have you seen how that's changed things?

Chad Caudill 55:57
Yeah, we've definitely had a few growth spurts he's grown probably, I would say almost six inches since he was diagnosed. So we definitely do with that. And it's definitely cause some crazy numbers this year.

Scott Benner 56:11
Was there a lot of growth right after you started using insulin?

Chad Caudill 56:14
Yes, yes. Immediately after seven days, like you started growing like a weed. Like it was just a nine day difference.

Scott Benner 56:19
That's a That's very interesting. I don't know. Arden is going to come on the podcast at some point. But when Artem was diagnosed with hyper thyroidism hypothyroidism, excuse me. She was the tiniest person in the world. Arden was like five, one, she would like 80 pounds. And she's 571 30 now, and it was beyond when you would expect a girl to grow that much. As soon as she started taking her Synthroid, she just like, took off, but gave her all kinds of she's got all kinds of terrible, like knee and joint aches and everything from girl so much. But uh, it's, it's stunning. She's one of the taller girls in her school. And she was one of the smallest people. Like, I just thought she was gonna be like somebody, we could smuggle a piece of luggage if we needed to. You know, like she was that bad, tiny. And that was fascinating to watch. But I know that insulin hits you and your body starts operating the way it's supposed to again. And that's, that's always why when I see people with kids who are, you know, newly diagnosed to struggle a lot, you know, they don't have some sort of support system about information. And they're restricting food, because they don't know how to use the inside. I'm always like, Huh, I know why you're doing that. And it makes sense, with limited information. But that kid's got to eat, you know? Mm hmm. So yeah, I

Chad Caudill 57:42
mean, we're kind of guilty of that, too. At the beginning, there's definitely still some foods that we try to limit waffles for this kid or the devil. So we we try to live with some waffles. Bananas were the worst for the longest time. But we're just now starting to really reintroduce those. I'm just kind of doing one thing at a time. So we're gonna learn how to bolster that.

Scott Benner 58:02
Yeah, I talked about a lot but it at some point, in those dire situations around diabetes, we start creating a pecking order of who we are. And, and being a human and health sometimes falls below diabetes, you know, you see yourself as diabetes First, the amount of kids that sometimes I see online who are young, who are existing on, you know, hard boiled eggs and string cheese. And I'm like, Huh, would you give that to them? If we didn't have diabetes? Like, you know, would that be lunch? You know, I mean, maybe once in a while, but every day, like poor kids that get up every day and have eggs and bacon, and you know, like, there's no, not that there's anything wrong with that. But there's never any deviation from it. It's adding some bacon every day because I can handle that. And I get that. But at some point, I just think you have to say to yourself, you got to do something here. You know what I mean? Like, we can't just, I can't eat these eggs every damn day for the rest of my life. Just Oh, yeah.

Chad Caudill 58:58
I mean, we're definitely not that extreme. Like, yet ice cream cake for a birthday. It wasn't fun. Yeah. So we definitely don't try to limit finances as much as we can. Anyway,

Scott Benner 59:09
somebody messaged me the other day, and they said, I want to give my kid an AC. And she's like, how do I do that? I said, Well, I know your kid. But here's what I would do. And worked out pretty well for them is exciting. They were celebrating something and when to give the kid something that he just never had before. You know what I mean? So it doesn't get that very often. And I was just like, yeah, that's cool. Just put the insulin in here and watch for this and then re address it if you have to. Don't let it get above like this. That was pretty much it. She did a great job of it. So that's very cool. So just Tara, listen to the podcast. Oh, yeah, she listens. Well, when she listens, she's listening on a different device, right. I'm getting to download so I don't

Chad Caudill 59:53
Yeah, yeah, it's your device. You didn't you get more bang for your buck here. Yeah, don't

Scott Benner 59:56
don't don't listen on the same device. Even if you find that happening. Stop, be like, get out of here. Go listen on your own. Scott said he needs to download. But guys, is it? Is it I know we're gonna go in a second, I don't want to keep you longer than have to. But is it interesting? Have you ever found yourself move into a room together and say to her? Hey, did you hear how this is happening? What do you think of that? How do you guys use the podcast? Or is it something that's personal to both of you?

Chad Caudill 1:00:24
Um, yeah, we definitely have talked about it before. The we listened to it in two different order. So I started from your first episode number, and we have two new ones. And she started from the new ones working your way back. So we sit there and talk about the different things you've heard and kind of put together and it makes your interesting conversations and definitely helps raise care. The I mean, I mean, remember Episode 11, obviously, that's a big one for everybody that's talking about that one with her. And that was just like, life changing for both of us.

Scott Benner 1:00:55
That's cool. So she'll get to it. And eventually, you guys will meet in the middle one day, one day, like Episode 284, or something, or you know, 197, and you'll be like, Oh, my God, I'm on the same line. For one day, for one day, you'll be in the same place, then you'll start moving in a direction where each has heard what the other one? Oh, that's interesting. I like that. That's very cool. I'm glad for you. I really am i i think it's wonderful that it's helpful. I never know what to say when, like, I'll get a note. I always respond the same way. I'm like, I'm glad the podcast is valuable for you. I don't know what to say. Like, you know what I mean? So. But that's really cool. And you guys have that perspective of listening from two ends up in the car, like, how do you do it?

Chad Caudill 1:01:38
Yeah, so for me, it's typically I wasn't on my commute, don't work and back, so I get through about six episodes a week. Then, the wife, she listens, just throughout the day, whenever Matthias has taken a nap, stuff like that, it'll pop it on, listen to her. Well,

Scott Benner 1:01:55
I would like everyone to get at least six episodes a week. That's good chatter set up a nice baseline. Please try to keep up. That's very cool. I appreciate that. I really don't have Is there anything? We didn't say that, that you hope to talk about?

Chad Caudill 1:02:12
Okay, thank you for anything we did conversation. I mean, I'm just appreciate taking the time every day to talk to me. I know you're a busy man. And yeah, thanks. Thanks for all your not medical advice.

Scott Benner 1:02:25
It's my pleasure not to give you advice, Chad, I really, I really mean that. I and I have to be honest with you. It's, it's COVID-19 time, the rest of my day looks like this. I bought a grill, I have to put it together. Man, it's pretty much as I have to actually I'm going to edit a podcast that's gonna go up tomorrow. And that'll take a number of hours. The podcast is I got this message from somebody recently. And they're like, I'm starting a podcast, you know, could I pick your brain? And I said, Is it about diabetes? And she said, No, I was like, yeah, then I'd be happy to help you. And I don't need the competition. But No, but seriously, I got her on the phone. I was like, Listen, a lot of work way more than you expect time is, you know, and I went through, like, here's how long it takes to set up an interview, like you're in my, you know, experience is a great example. I mean, we've corresponded 1000 times moving this thing around and doing everything, I think we started talking in the fall of 2019. It's almost the summer of 2020. And, you know, that happens then the recording time, just this time, you and I are sitting here speaking, and I need to edit it, I have to put in the music, I've got to put in ads, I've got to support it with social media, every episode takes a day of my life, you know, in when it's, you know, kind of compacted down. And I said, you can't you can't just put one up every once in a while. I mean, you can but then that's a audio blog. It's not a podcast, like a podcast is the thing that happens and people can count on and, and she's like, okay, maybe I won't do it. Like I wasn't trying to talk you out of it. Just it's it this is a full time job. It's really crazy. I didn't I didn't expect that so i love it and I'm having a great time with it. But when I first started doing it, I was like oh, you know I made this easy. Yeah, sure. I don't have a blog it'll be fine. That's not really what happened so did I'm thrilled you wanted to do this not enough guys reach out. So it's very cool to see a father so involved and understanding of what's happening like you picked it up incredibly easily. You know your your time from diagnosis to finding the podcast to having a six a one C with a three year old. It's like nothing. It's like a snap of a finger. It's really impressive. I hope you can pass by congratulations on to your wife about the next baby. And I know you don't have a boy name picked out yet but nothing wrong with Scott. You don't

Chad Caudill 1:04:59
have to He said that

Scott Benner 1:05:01
if you name that kid Scott, I will come all the way to Georgia and smack you in the head because you know what you should do that to that job. Thank you very much, man. I really appreciate you doing this.

Chad Caudill 1:05:10
I appreciate it. Well, Scott, great, have a good day. Here's what, hey, I'm

Scott Benner 1:05:14
really grateful for Chad coming. Hey, huge thanks to Chad for coming on and sharing his story. And good luck to him. He's about to have that new baby in just a couple of weeks actually. Thank you also to dexcom makers of the G six continuous glucose monitor and the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Learn more@dexcom.com forward slash juice box and Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. Let me remind you as well to consider supporting the T one D exchange at T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box. You fill out some very simple questions about type one diabetes. Here's how it goes. Look, give me one second to talk about it. If you're a US resident, and you have type one, or you're the parent of someone with Type One Diabetes, you fill out these very easy, simple questions about your type one, your data goes anonymously into the registry. And with that data, the T one D exchange is able to help big decisions about Type One Diabetes be made. The data has been used in the past to impact the American Diabetes associations, a one c recommendations to lower them for children. That's a big deal because doctors use those recommendations to help people the data has been used to help there be more coverage for test trips for CGM is to be better covered all kinds of stuff that helps people with type one diabetes and you can anonymously By the way, 100% HIPAA compliant help T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. And in about 10 minutes, you can make a huge impact for other people living with Type One Diabetes. The T one D exchange is looking for up to 6,000% precipitants. Hmm, the T one D exchange is looking for up to 6000 participants. And so far, a lot of them have come from the Juicebox Podcast which I'm very grateful for way to represent. If you haven't done it yet, please do. It's very simple. You can do it from your phone, your iPad, your computer while you're sitting on your sofa. It does not take a lot of time. I think it actually took me about seven minutes to do it on behalf of Arden at T1dexchange.org/juicebox

#407 Emotions at Diagnosis & Diabetes Distress

The Psychology of Type 1

Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss burnout, emotions surrounding diagnosis, and dealing with diabetes distress and constructive ways to prevent it from impairing one’s function. http://erikaforsyth.com

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:10
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 407 of the Juicebox Podcast. On today's show, Erica Forsyth is here she has a master's in social work, and she specializes in diabetes. She's going to tell you more about in a second. But for right now please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 0:44
Hi, my name is Erika Forsyth. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and type one for over 30 years.

Scott Benner 0:53
Okay, so I'm already that quickly. My I don't think I have ADHD. But when you said that I was like, Oh, we should just talk about being married. That would be anything. But to find out why is it so hard to be married? And why do people argue about Oh, but nevermind, that's not what we're gonna do.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries, g Volk hype open. Find out more at G Volk glucagon.com forward slash juice box. This episode is also sponsored by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. And you can get a free no obligation demo of the on the pod sent directly to you today by going to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juicebox. Try it on where it and see what you think before you commit. Don't forget to check out touched by type one there at touched by type one.org. It is my absolute favorite diabetes organization. Check them out. They're also on Instagram and Facebook touched by type one.org. When were you diagnosed?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:15
I was diagnosed at age 12. In the summer at summer camp,

Scott Benner 2:20
summer camp, not the best memory or not a bad memory.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:24
Um, it was a pretty traumatic memory and diagnosis story. You know, everyone has their own diagnosis story. It was over kind of a span of a couple months. It was a three week long summer camp and I was diagnosed the night, the last night of the three week summer camp.

Scott Benner 2:43
Oh, and then they shipped you home lifeless.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:46
They I don't remember this but they put me I was in sixth grade. They put me in a ambulance and I was on my way to a diabetic coma ketoacidosis. And so then I my parents met me at the ER at some point that night. I know it's all kind of a blur. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:03
So you were there for three weeks? Do you think it's just happening to you the entirety of those three weeks?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:09
You know, I think they I was played in a volleyball camp in the beginning of the summer. And you know, to do that I had to have a you know, check in a physical and also before going away for the summer camp. And definitely I was experiencing sometimes, but like many families we did not know to look for, you know, frequent thirst, frequent urination and extreme weight loss. They just thought I was growing and it was hot. And I was playing lots of volleyball. And then I went off to summer camp. And you know, there was a flu going through the camp and I fainted. So they thought it was that they thought it maybe was I was going through puberty. You know, definitely was experiencing extreme fatigue, which was really abnormal because I was an athlete. Yeah. So it can when you're not really looking for type one, the symptoms aren't as obvious. But then when you look back, and you can check off, you know, all of those symptoms like oh my gosh, we should have known. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 4:14
mean, I guess especially when you're under the care of corny 18 year old camp counselors to they're probably just like she's got the flow. Get her in a bed.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:22
Oh, yes. Yes. And you know, it was interesting. Finally, it was the last day of camp and in most camps, you know, everyone that daycare, they're getting ready for the banquet, and so all the girls are running around in a room or cabin, and I'm kind of going in and out of consciousness and they're, they're good, they're prepping or getting dressed or getting their makeup on. And I guess finally my symptoms are made known to a male camp counselor who happened to have type one. And so I remember him coming into our room which was you know, a male and the girls cabin was was like, you know, endless scary or just not normal. And he took my blood sugar and at Red high and at the time that was like, I think over 600. And so I think it was really kind of a saving grace that he heard my symptoms. He was there he knew to take my blood sugar. And you know, the rest is history. Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 5:15
that is lucky, honestly, for you. All right. Well, I've never been to camp but you just made it sound not very good.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:25
Oh, I love the camp. You know what I went. It took me a couple years, but I went back in high school to kind of redeem my experience, because it was a special, it's a special place. That's cool. That's good. Yeah. Well, okay, so

Scott Benner 5:35
how long ago was this?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:38
This was 30 years ago.

Scott Benner 5:40
Wow. All right. No, I'm gonna do some quick math and say that was 1990.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:45
That was that was the summer of 1990. That was good math.

Scott Benner 5:49
Thank you. I'm very impressed at my ability to subtract three. to subtract three from to know it's a negative one, then knock 10 years off a 2000. The way I came up with, it really is brilliant. I don't want to bore anybody with it, but very impressed with what I learned in seventh grade. And was able to retain Okay, so you're on the show today, you were you were actually suggests suggested to me by someone else. Am I right about that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:16
Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 6:17
So tell me what you do professionally.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:21
Professionally, I am, as I said, in a marriage and family therapist, but I specialize in working with people with diabetes and their families, their caregivers, as we know it, you know, it takes a village and it affects not only the person with diabetes, but everyone around him or her. And so I love my job. And I love that I get to walk alongside people, you know, from newly diagnosed to, you know, people living with it for 1015 2030 plus years, who are maybe experiencing some, you know, distress or burnout or other issues that may or may not be related to diabetes, but oftentimes, it can go back to that.

Scott Benner 7:10
Why don't we start with burning out? And I'd love to know. So I'm assuming you see people who've been with diabetes for all length of time. And then how did you think of burnout? Like, beyond, you know, just the word that gets kind of thrown around in, you know, in social circles online? Like what what is burnout to you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:30
Yeah, so I, I think a lot of people really work on clarifying that diabetes, distress leads to burnout. And I think you know, it, if you're experiencing just stress over and maybe it comes and goes, but when you're actually experiencing burnout, people will describe it as you know, hitting a wall, or maybe it's you feel like you just don't have the, you know, capacity to take care of yourself, manage your diabetes, maybe you want to skip a dose, maybe you just want to eat whatever and not think about, you know, carb counting or or think about what where's my blood sugar now, what am I doing and all the things that we have to think about when we're about to do something or eat something or exercise. And so burnout is, I just want to think about it, I'm, I'm done, I want to take a break, and you might you probably not even doing that consciously. And I think you know, burnout can be become very risky and scary when you're experiencing that over prolonged period of time.

Scott Benner 8:38
Well, so you're saying that there's, like stressors that lead to the give up, like the hand throwing up, or even the subconscious hand throwing off of just like, I'm gonna get a bag of potato chips and sit on the sofa now, and this is the extent of my nutrition, like, I've just given up on everything, for reasons that can be external, and unseen. Is that possible, like so the way I to give you a little look into my head that one of the reasons I make this podcast is because that I think that managing Type One Diabetes is arduous, and that if you're mired down constantly in the math, and the worry and things are always going wrong, and your meal spike and you're high all the time, and you don't know why and then you drop low and you're, you know, you're concerned about being low, then you over treat you bounce up, this is an untenable way to live. And so I'm a big proponent of learning quickly how to manage the insulin so that you don't sort of start this journey of, of wherever, you know, it leads to that ends up with many people just being like, I can't do this or this thing beats me all the time or it's unknowable, or whatever. It ends up feeling like the different people. So it could be simple, right? Like it could be like one day I just don't feel like giving myself a shot. Then the next day, I don't know how many carbs are in this, and then it gets high. And I'll just leave it high and see if it comes down. And then these things build and build and build on themselves. Is that true?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:10
Yes, I would say that's, that is an accurate description, in addition to maybe other external kind of stressors or you know, feeling like you're powerless. Or maybe you have a constant fear of, of having hypoglycemia, or you're really, you know, particularly in the teenage years, this is can be quite normal of feeling like you want to hide your diabetes from other people. or feeling like your doctor just doesn't understand what it's like. So in these are, that those are maybe at play. And in addition to you know, what, I just don't want it. I don't want to have to think about my blood sugar is and I want to eat five donuts this morning. And that can all snowball. Yes,

Scott Benner 10:56
yeah. And then before you know it, you're so mired down in it that you don't know how you got there. And there's no way to know how to get out anymore.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:04
Right. And, and, and kind of, you know, when you're sick all the time, you kind of just get used to feeling sick, and then maybe one day, you're not sick, like oh my gosh, I didn't know how good that feels to not be sick. I think you can become kind of used to maybe not feeling well, because of your sugar's are so high, and then emotionally and mentally, you're, you're down and out. And you that just becomes your new normal, right? Your pain, pain, the nuts, you know, where I want to enter it? Yes,

Scott Benner 11:33
paint paint starts that way. It's a,

Unknown Speaker 11:36
I

Scott Benner 11:37
had a motorcycle accident, I was like 20. And I don't have any, like health insurance. So when I was lucky enough to stand up, they were like, you're going to the hospital. And I was like, I don't have insurance. You're not taking me to the hospital. I'm poor. I know where that leads to. So I just went home and my shoulder healed naturally, which obviously, in hindsight, wasn't a great decision. And over the next, you know, 20 years, it actually worked fine. But it turned out that, you know, the weird healing process besides the lump that's on my shoulder that you can feel that doesn't belong there. It turned out that there was, you know, a calcification that kept building and building and building and one day is impinged a, my, my gosh, it's such a simple concept. Everybody gets their shoulder repaired that thing in their shoulder is called anybody had

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:24
their rotator. Thank you,

Scott Benner 12:25
Erica. in pain, it's the rotator cuff. And it just snapped. Right? But it happens super slowly. And it hurt a little you got used to it hurt a little more you got used to it couldn't lift your arm up as high, you got used to it. It's amazing how adaptive we can be, you know, and then I'll never forget the biggest relief I had in four years because it took 20 years for me to start noticing the problem and for years for it to explode. But I was trying to have a catch with my son one day thinking I was pushing through this, you know, stiffnesses what, how I imagined it my addled mind, you know. And then suddenly, I said to him, like, Oh my god, I worked through it. It's, it feels great. And for the next 20 minutes, it was perfect, until I realized that my rotator cuff it the 10 minutes. Right and just the snapping of it alleviated my pain for a while until a new pain showed up. I think that's exactly what you're talking about. Is that it? You know, you start off with a you know, not having diabetes. Your blood sugar's in the 80s all the time, then suddenly, it's not anymore. Now you know, you're in the 90s the hundreds you're honeymooning, and then suddenly it's 120 and 130 and 150. Before you know it, you feel completely normal at 200. And you're not you just don't realize it. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:42
yes, no, that's a that's a great analogy. And I'm sorry that happened that please.

Scott Benner 13:47
What am I gonna do? You know, the day I figured it out? I couldn't hold a water bottle in my right hand.

Unknown Speaker 13:51
Oh my god, like,

Scott Benner 13:53
I am gonna move this to my left hand and call a doctor. But Batman Oh, yeah, please smart move would have been when I was 20 years old, going a little bit in debt and having my shoulders but I was really broke back then Eric and anything over $45 seemed like a million so Oh, yes. luck, you know, but but so what do people like, given that you don't see it happening to you? I mean, that's why my argument is, you know, just stop it from happening. You know, and but you know, shy of that being able to be your reality say you don't find a podcast that helps you manage your insulin. How do I like what are my signs if I because I'm assuming I'm, I'm hoping that a loved one sees this right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:39
Right. Yes. I mean, I know you know, I speak a lot from you know, the person who's living with diabetes can experience the you know, distress and burnout but obviously the caregiver, like yourself can too because it's it's constant. I think some of you know the the obvious signs would be You know, not doing some of the things that you used to do, like, for example, maybe your check it used to check frequently, and then now it's becoming less frequent. Or you're just maybe looking for signs that something might not be something is bothering you that you might not be feeling as, as hopeful in, in life in general. But also with, with your diabetes care you might be experiencing, you know, this is what a lot of younger, my younger clients will talk about, or experienced just the guilt and shame around the number. Because there is such a hyper focus on the numbers. You know, when I was first diagnosed, I went to a large Children's Hospital, and whenever I, they would take your a one see right there, it was just like from a finger stack, and then it would it would compute, and then they would apply your a one C to A letter grade. Oh, so this is this is in the, you know, the 90s, early 90s. And so if you were in the right zone, it was an A, if you were you know, eight to 10, you are a B or in higher. I mean, there were times where I remember I had like a D. And so talk about, you know, they're trying to encourage you to have a better grade. But that certainly started the turn of the course for me and having some shame based thinking around my numbers. And I hear a lot of clients talk about, you know, I don't want to check because I know it's going to be 350. So of course you don't, then you you're connecting that number to who you are as a person, how you're doing with your diabetes management. And so of course, you don't want to check it, or look at your CGM.

Scott Benner 16:47
I'm fixated that one

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:48
battle spirals,

Scott Benner 16:49
who the moron is that thought that that was would have been the way to go, you know, you know, we'll do we'll grade them. And the people are doing poorly, we'll give them really bad grades that should motivate them. I who, who thinks that way, but like, at least they could have rated you on like the popularity of Nirvana songs, like, you know, like, if you if you had like an 85 you were like, Teen Spirit. But you know, if you were more like, 120, you were paying royalty, and you know, it's somewhere in there, like, why not? Oh, my God, that's really terrible. Like how have we come so far in 30 years, the way we think about things,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:24
and you know, and I am grateful, you know, I don't hold anything against them. But I think that's where we were, you know, kind of fear fear based. You know, if you don't check your blood sugar, if you have a D on your ANC, you're gonna experience all these complications. And so, I love like a lot of doctors and psychologists are, you know, trying to really focus on like, let's do evidence based hope and motivate people based on these the other numbers of if you keep yourself in, you know, good range, or you exemplify or show these kind of behaviors, you are going to live longer with, you know, and I can't pull the numbers out right now, but have a higher chance of not having any complications, as opposed to well, if you don't, you are going to have complications, right?

Scott Benner 18:11
Is it possible that aspirational talk doesn't work on people whose blood sugars are elevated all the time? Or have incredible stress about, like getting low? Or something like that? Is it is it feel like a bridge too far to even hope?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:23
I think that's where you want to get that get them to, but obviously, in the beginning, you might need to start smaller. For example, let's focus on you know, the behaviors the process instead of the outcome. And if you're a parent working with a child or a teenager, you know, they catch them being good. You're you're praising the behavior of Oh, my gosh, you know, thank you for checking your blood sugar, and not asking what the number is, you know, thank you for you know, bolusing. I know you. And I really like all your pro tips about the Pre-Bolus. And the timing of the Bolus is so crucial. And so praising them for or helping them around that piece, as opposed to what is your number now before we eat, what's your in the dish, the hyper focus on the numbers has to shift if you're trying to help somebody move away from that shame based thinking around your number and your agency, because that's where a lot because that's where you do need to focus on but at the same time, you need to take that piece away to help elevate a person's mood or distress.

Scott Benner 19:36
I don't think about the numbers at all anymore. I think about an outlet. So my daughter has a dexcom CGM. So I'm lucky to be able to see a graph right but i just think about, like stability and maintaining the stability. To me, the rest of it doesn't matter carbs, you know, try to force the line up insulin tries to stop that. It's it's Kind of, I really I simplify it in my head, just you know, you know, you see a blood sugar that's darting up, you stop it, just stop it, you know. And once it's stopped, if you if you've over addressed it, then you know, fix that without it going back up again and learn from your next mistake, I think, you know, if you've overcorrected don't spend a lot of time hand wringing and saying to yourself, like, oh, I've messed it up again, like, you know, like, just look and go, Okay, well, look, this time I tried one one was too much, I'm going to try three quarters next time, I don't know, whatever, you know. And then you'll learn and build and learn and build. And before you know it, I just, I just saw a note today, in the I have a private Facebook group for this podcast, and a woman said, I came in, I was really desirous to just have success right away. And I almost just went right to the pro tips she's like, but instead I just went back to the beginning of the podcast, and I started listening over, she said, she was like, 40 episodes in, and she's already has an incredible improvement in health. And, and her ability to manage blood sugars. And I said this to somebody privately the other day, I said, I know that the podcast has 400 episodes at this point. But the truth is, in my opinion, you go back, listen to this podcast straight through, you're gonna have anyone seeing the low sixes, and it's not going to be tough to get to. And that's because there are so many little things about diabetes, that if you expect someone to sit in a doctor's office, or in a you know it or, and tell you about, that's not how it's going to happen. Like you have to hear it kind of slowly, you have to hear it as a building narrative, it takes a little time to take in the information. And after that, you know, you're on your way, like, so I like that you don't blame your doctors, but I'm gonna blame them for you a little bit. You don't have to, we don't teach people how to manage their insulin, we just tell them they have diabetes, and that carbs makes their blood sugar go up, and insulin makes their blood sugar go down. And then we're like good luck. And then they send them on their way. And then these little things that you're talking about, naturally pop up in life. And by the way, you don't just have diabetes, you also have a job or you go to school, you might be in a marriage that you're not happy with, you might be in a marriage you're really happy with, but there's a hole in your roof that you can't afford to fix, or any number of other obvious life things happen. While you're trying to figure this thing out, I've said over and over and over again, that I was able to come to these ideas. Partially because I was a stay at home dad, and I didn't have to get up and go to work every day. You know, I too many people are in that situation where it's basically they throw a patch on their diabetes and hope it holds till the next time they're able to look at it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:48
Right? Yeah, I mean, there's just it is a it is as they say, you know, the full time job that doesn't take a break. And I you reference that a lot. And I think it's upon all the other layers of life. It's exhausting. And I think one of the greatest gifts you can give to yourself as a person with diabetes or a caregiver is to be kind you know, you said don't don't wring your hands. Let's let the numbers be data for information for decision making in the future, but not a data point to say gosh, I really was terrible. I can't believe I didn't give myself enough insulin or Gosh, now I'm doing the diabetes roller coaster where I I was high and I overcorrected. Now I'm low, gosh, you know, then you get in your headspace. You know what I made a mistake. And that's okay. And I'm going to learn from this and move forward. As opposed to just ruminating in the number and the behavior that got you to that number.

Scott Benner 23:44
And I think Additionally, you have to have the foresight to realize that you can't make a mistake. If you don't know what you're doing. You don't mean like that's, that's an interesting concept, because you feels like you made a mistake. But if no one taught you, are you making a mistake? Like, you're gonna be like, how can I make a mistake about something I have no knowledge of whatsoever the mistake is made in the entirety of how we do this, of how, from the moment you're diagnosed, until the moment someone lets you go, they tell you a lot of really important stuff. And not, I mean, you brought it up a second ago, and we kind of always just like, skip over it, but I have contact with a lot of people. The idea of Pre-Bolus thing, which is honestly the idea of understanding how insulin works, is not mentioned to most people when they leave with it's just it's fat. It'd be like talent, it would be like if I gave you a driver's license, it didn't tell you gas was flammable. You know, FYI, you know,

Unknown Speaker 24:46
right, right.

Scott Benner 24:47
You just got to the gas station. I feel it's leaking all over the place. No big deal. No one mentioned to me this was a problem. Like it just you need to understand how certain things work so that you can be thoughtful about using them. Uh huh. I see you're making me upset.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:02
Oh, we you know, I thankfully there has been such a huge shift in trend with you know, the the American Diabetes Association has partnered with the American Psychological Association APA, the APA to recognize that there needs to be this focus on psychosocial care for people with diabetes, because the education piece that you are, you know, that you have done such a great job in broadcasting through your podcast is so crucial, combined with the psychosocial piece. And so I am grateful that there's been a big shift and and care for not only endocrinologist, but psychologists focusing in on that the emotional piece. Yeah, of what it's like that, you know, it's it's exhausting is the understatement, right?

Scott Benner 25:53
It's just it's the tools, you have to have the right tools, or you can't, you just can't, you can't build your box if you don't have a hammer. And that's that. And it's not, it's not that much more difficult. And like you're saying the other side of it is, is that while you feel like you're constantly failing, and failing and failing, and you're not just failing, but your health is deteriorating, and you're starting to feel worse, and worse, yet, you don't notice it after a while. All these things are just, you know, they feel insurmountable. And I think possibly, and I'm not just saying this, because you're here, the only way most people are going to be able to climb out of this hole is with third party help somebody who can break it down for them and show it to them piece by piece, and then give them direction about how to how to manage

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:41
it? Well. Yes, I think there is, you do need first to be, you know, aware of the signs and symptoms. And actually, as I was praying to come speak with you today, I found this website, it's called diabetes distressed.org. And you can actually take a survey to kind of assess your degree of distress and it highlights you know, don't worry if your numbers are higher, you know, joined to really prevent No, there's no shame around having to stress, but to first like, let's just try and go be aware of where you are in your level of distress and then it gives some options of what what do you need, you need to talk with your healthcare provider? Do you need to seek additional help with a mental health provider? Do you need to become more clear with your family? have what you need? Do you need help and problem solving? Or do you need just more validation from your family? or your partner whoever is you know, in your, your immediate family support system? I think understanding where you are is the first step and then kind of figuring out how can you help yourself through that process and being kind and compassionate to yourself is also really key.

Scott Benner 28:00
I think we should be deputizing sharpest diabetes Sherpas, I've just come up with this idea when you're talking because because you just said stuff that I could imagine a new blockade for every time we'll go to your doctor, what if my doctor sucks? You know, what if my doctor thinks a 7.8 a one sees great, like the and I don't think that or you know, and it's easy to to say to somebody like don't just see the number. But, but everybody's not great in a panic situation.

Unknown Speaker 28:30
You're gonna be like, there's

Scott Benner 28:31
there's certain people who, you know, there could be, you know, bombs going off around them, and they can stay focused on what they're doing. And there are certain people who hear the bombs and very reasonably jump on the ground and cover their head. So when when ever we can't count on everybody being so resilient in that moment.

Unknown Speaker 28:53
Mm hmm.

Scott Benner 28:54
You know, like they need somebody to take their hand and go Hey, look, you're in over your head. No big deal. Like it's that old story right? Like, guys down in the hole. his buddy walks by yells up Hey, Bill, can you give me a hand I'm stuck down in this hole and Bill jumps down in the hole with him. And the guy goes What are you doing like now we're both stuck down here and bogus. Now don't worry but down here before I know the way out like you need somebody who who can lead you out. And and I think that there's too many there are too many variables and and you're also counting on people to recognize which bucket they fit in. And then they have to go to the right person. Like you just need somebody to stop listen to your story and say, Okay, here's what you need my opinion. I'm going to try to get it to it and let me see if I can lead you forward. I've you've you've just given me a job for after the time when the podcast is over. I'm going to start diabetes shopping. And I think this is I think this is it because you don't need any special skills. Just to know the path that somebody else doesn't know and and is too confused too. find their way on at the, at the moment in their life that they find themselves in that situation.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:05
Right? I mean, yes, oftentimes you have someone coming alongside them, helping them through the process and just validation that, you know, I understand that you are in such a challenging and difficult spot and and also feeling like they're not alone. I think that's, you know, with, particularly with type one, it's you can feel very isolated that no one really understands the challenges, the nuances, the you know, every thought, every minute, there's a different thought probably about it about your diabetes management. I agree. And that can feel so isolating. And so I think reaching out for help just for that, to know that you're not alone is also a really crucial step. Yeah.

Scott Benner 30:55
No, I agree. Having some sort of community. I have to be honest, I've been shocked over the last number of years when people write to me privately to tell me that this podcast is their community. Even though they don't have a back and forth it's not a it's not a two way conversation. It's still everything they needed, was just knowing someone else existed in being able to listen to them.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:16
Yes. And and not feeling like they're alone in the process. And I think that's, that's, you know, one of the benefits of technology and your and your podcast and all of that many resources that you can access online.

Scott Benner 31:30
Yeah, no kidding. Okay, Sarika So, so somebody can come to this burnout phase, show up, find a therapist that understands diabetes, and hopefully find their way through it? Will the therapist help them with management to or no,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:45
no, and that's, that's a great clarification. You know, even though I have type one, you know, and I sometimes feel like I'm an expert, not always with my own management, I'm not the expert of everyone else's own personal management. And so I oftentimes will consult and collaborate with their health provider, with their doctor with their end with their CD. And, but I would not make decisions or suggestions around their insulin management or carb ratios. I would come alongside them and help them maybe figure out a behavior plan with either the caregiver or depending on the age of the person with diabetes, and help support them in that way. And kind of finding what what are the roadblocks to implementing that behavior plan. And also, just as we talked about, just kind of the validation of the challenges of living with diabetes such

Scott Benner 32:49
you've never, you've never leaned over the table, see the graph, I've been like you consider just up in your meal ratio a little bit?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:57
No, that would definitely be out of my scope of competence and practice. So yeah, that would not be appropriate.

Scott Benner 33:05
Well, good. Look at you, your principal person you Erica. So so let's look this is something I'd like to dig into this next thing that I'm constantly unarmored by which is I believe that when you're diagnosed with an illness, that is not it's not curable, that you go through the processes of grief. Am I right about that? Gee, voke hypo pain has no visible needle, and it's the first pre mixed auto injector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes, ages two and above. Not only is evoke hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about, all you have to do is go to G Volk, glucagon.com Ford slash juice box. g Vogue shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit G, Vogue glucagon.com, slash risk. Are you ready to ditch the daily injections or send your pump packing? If you are, it's time to try on the pod, the tubeless wireless continuous insulin management system. Here's all you have to do. Go to my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, scroll down a little bit and decide do you want to check your eligibility for a free trial or check your insurance coverage to see if you're covered. Maybe you're already sold and you just want an omni pod, just click on my coverage. I want to check my coverage, then fill out a tiny bit of information and you're on your way. Now if you're just looking for the free, no obligation trial to be sent to you, check my eligibility for a free trial, fill out your information. And that Omni pod will show up right at your house so you can give it a whirl. It's just a demo pod. Don't worry. You put it on you where'd you see what's up and the questions are super easy. You know My name my date of birth, do I have type one or type two or another type of diabetes? And how do I currently manage it's very simple, only takes a moment to get that free, no obligation demo, or to get started with the Omni pod at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. You want to learn more about touched by type one, check them out on Facebook, or Instagram or at touched by type one.org. So wonderful organization helping people living with Type One Diabetes touched by type one.org my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box g Volk glucagon.com, forward slash juice box support the sponsors support the show.

You go through the processes of grief. Am I right about that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:57
Absolutely. And I probably see the majority of my clients and families are mostly the newly diagnosed who are dealing kind of with the shock with the grief, kind of the the exploration of what what does this really mean for our family? It is it's a you know, it's a community that you don't really want to be a member of, but you're trying to figure out what how is this going to affect our daily lives and you know, some people, like for my, my family, for instance, I actually also have a younger brother with type one. Coincidentally, which, and I have an older sister who does not and no one else in my family have, we have no history of type one diabetes. So I had kind of that built in community with my brother, which was unique, but a lot of family. So you know, we're gonna, we're gonna fight through this, we're not going to let this affect us at all you can do all the things you want to do, we both played volleyball, he actually was this is my little brag spot, he was an Olympic gold medalist playing volleyball in Beijing. And so I just like to say that that you can do whatever you want to accomplish to us that you know, within the means of you managing it. So there are some families on that kind of end of the spectrum. And then there are other families who are really struggle and I it's understandable who, you know, how do we, how do I let my child go to school? And how do I trust other people to manage this, this is you know, thinking from a younger, aged person with diabetes, to a teenager who wants to go out or wants to drive. And now is kind of tat tasked with Well, you have to have your blood sugar in a certain range before you get to go out with your friends or drive your car. So it is such a huge shift, and obviously different with different layers and different complications based on the age. Yeah, but to answer your original question, yes, there is a huge sense of grief and loss around and sometimes it's just ambiguous loss. Like we don't we're not really sure what we're all at all that we know, we don't you don't really know, you know, everything no Sure, initially. And so there's this sense of like, ambiguous loss and grief. Yeah.

Scott Benner 38:25
Is denial always first? Um, or not necessarily, I guess the the stage but by the way, I've also heard from some psychologists who say that they don't call it the stages of grief anymore. Like there's other ways to think about it. There's some thought processes where there are seven stages, five stages, two stages. So keeping in mind, there are different ways to think about it, but I can tell you like right off the bat, I know that I I personally experienced denial, and it popped up around a honeymooning situation. Yes, right. As soon as you didn't need insulin as much, or, you know, there was this, this may be 24 hours for my daughter just didn't seem to need insulin at all. I'm sure she still did. But I was such a neophyte at the time. Less seemed like none and I got I got caught up in it to the point where I called my friend who's my my kids, pediatrician, and I was I was coherent enough to say to him, I actually said, Hey, I'm gonna say something after I say, tell me I'm wrong and hang up the phone. You know, I said, but you know, most people can't talk to their kids doctors that way, but I happen to happens to be a very good friend of mine. And so I said, I don't think Arden has diabetes. She hasn't used that much insulin. And he said, No, Scott Arden definitely has type one diabetes. This could happen, you know, in the beginning, and he described honeymooning to me back then, but I was in such a state. I didn't even hear what he was saying. I just heard him say, Stop hoping she doesn't have it, you know. And that was pretty early on in the first six month or so. And I wasn't, I wasn't out of my mind enough to just be thinking it all the time. But the minute that something concrete happened that opened up the possibility I ran through that door, right away. Everybody goes through that. Do you think denial?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:18
Oh, I, I would probably say I've and I can't say, you know, give a fact on that. But I would say a lot of people probably would kind of when you're, you're in shock, your denial, you're kind of trying to figure out what is this mean? Then there's this honeymoon period, which can last, you know, different lengths of time for different people. I think along with the denial, a lot of parents and my own included, feel guilt, or would rather say, Can I can I have this instead of my children? Or did I do anything to cause this? And so those are all really challenging feelings and thoughts to have. And so often, instead of kind of either expressing those or feeling those, and moving through them there is there can be that denial. But that's all part of Yeah, that the stages of grief and shock and like you said it, the stages of grief are not linear. They are cyclical. And so you can experience any of those stages at any point in time.

Scott Benner 41:20
We're all like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you that. I've seen. I've talked to people who, when they get to anger, they go a lot of different ways. It's, you hear, like, you know, I don't know how God can let this happen. Like, that's, that's one that I that I hear pretty frequently. Some people go take their anger and direct it right into domination. Like, we're going to support somebody who's going to cure this, we're going to find some, you know, a doctor who's working on something that you've never heard of before, like that anger gets, or I'm gonna keep my kids blood sugar at 84 constantly, and it's never going to move and they direct. I've seen them direct their anger at that as well. That could be exhausting, though. No.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:12
Oh, for sure. And the anger could it could also go to the you know, the burnout of I'm so over this, I'm so angry. I'm I just don't want to think about it. And so I'm gonna just ignore it.

Scott Benner 42:28
Okay, so could the anger like, kick, it could jump right to that, or just, I'm so mad at this, I'm gonna pretend doesn't exist, you could also be driving so hard to make it perfect that you end up burning yourself out through that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:42
Yeah, that was a that is an excellent point. Yeah, you can you can experience burnout from the other, like, I'm gonna just hyper focus on these numbers, I'm going to keep it in this perfect range. Yeah, you know, from 80 to 120. And keep it like, try to be a, quote, normal person. And that, as we know, is, is fairly impossible to do on a 24 hour, you know, 24 seven basis. And so you certainly can burn yourself out, particularly if you're the caregiver in that role. Because then that, that often leads to eat if you're going to be perfect, that often leads to feelings of guilt and shame. You know, like, how did I let it get to be 121? Yeah. And so it is, it can be a very messy cycle of trying to live in this, if anger is driving that trying to live in this perfect range. And that's where I would encourage, you know, the the self compassion piece to come in.

Scott Benner 43:37
So do you. Can you, I should have said, Can you explain the bargaining step to me? Because it's, that's the one that doesn't make sense with how my brain works. Like, I like I I saw it happen. I feel like I feel like bargaining covers, this is my fault, because there are no issues in my family, like, my people, or they're the people who feel like if they would have gotten to a doctor sooner, there could have been something they could have done about it. Right. You know, or it's my fault. I didn't see something like that. Is that all kind of falls under the bargaining portion?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:16
Yes. And I think it can happen fairly. It's common, particularly, you know, with parents, like I said, you know, bargaining like why can I have this instead of my child? And I think it happens because we often really don't know the initial trigger right to your pancreas not working the way it's supposed to. I think if we had a clear, you know, trigger and a clear explanation as to why the bargaining and the the either the guilt wouldn't happen as much I'm sure it would happen to certain degree because you still don't want your child living with a chronic illness. But that the confusion around the the actual diagnosis of Type One Diabetes is still very much You know, there. Yeah. And so we want it we always want to know why, like, how did something how Why did this happen? How could I have prevented it? Could I have done anything differently? Did I you know, do we use the wrong detergent? I mean, I hear all sorts of things that maybe it was because that my child broke their arm and their immune system was in shock. Or maybe it was because my child had the flu. You know, we, we want to always figure out the why. And we don't really know why with this. It's funny, I don't

Scott Benner 45:35
care about the why, like, even when I talk about blood sugars with people, I tell them, one of the biggest mistakes you make is staring at a high blood sugar wondering how it happened. Like I don't like I don't care how it happened, just use some more insulin and get it down. And so the bargaining the bargaining part didn't like, to me bargaining is that it's your brains last vestige right? To keep it from feeling sad. Like, yeah, right, you're trying to you're trying to stop yourself from getting to the depression part to the, to the grief part. And, and so you keep trying to figure out a way where this doesn't have to feel sad, and there's no, I don't, there's no way not to feel sad about getting diabetes, like it just it's not a great thing to find out that one part of your body stopped working and isn't going to start working again, sucks, you know, but but I get why it happens. But I wonder if people listening, can't hear what we're talking about right now. And then go back to any number of other episodes and other people's stories that you hear. And realize that all of their stories are just some version of the steps that you feel after something like this happens these stages. You know what I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:49
Yes, and, and then, you know, getting to some people say, you know, the last stage of grief is acceptance. But as I, you know, when a highlight, you can, you can accept the diagnosis for a period of time, but it's okay to go back to periods of feeling sad, you know, I love to tell the story. I, I had a stint, I worked at the jdrf in San Francisco, many, many years ago. And there were a lot of type ones on staff there. And there was one particular woman who had had it for over 50 years in great health. And she, I think it was either once a month or a couple times a year, she would take I hate diabetes day, she would take a she would take the day off, she would lay in bed, she would she would feel all the feelings, she would feel sad, angry, and then move on. And so she kind of had this planned out to be like, you know what, I'm living with it, I'm living successfully with it, she had a very, you know, robust life. But she still had these moments and created these moments for herself to feel sad and angry about it. And that was, that was her way of kind of coping. And that's okay, so even she lived in kind of the moat, the majority of her life was the life of acceptance and thriving, but it's okay to compact to feel like, gosh, you know, we all have different seasons of life. And there are going to be more challenging ones with with your diabetes, particularly in as you're growing and going through different seasons, I've been in hormones and different life stages and different stressors. So it's, it's okay, yes, to

Scott Benner 48:26
have those different emotions around it. So just because you got through the, the, the depression and grief state, and you got to acceptance, and you started thinking, Hey, you know what, it turns out, I figured out how to use my insulin and this sucks, but it's, you know, you know, everybody's it's like, Who's way better than this other thing that could have happened to me or, you know, whatever. So I'm feeling good about this. Now, um, I feel like I'm going a little more control of what's going on. And you start sort of just turning the corner, it doesn't mean that you can't remember one day that this sucks, if you don't just get the dislike, it's not the so it's for people's understanding, like the five stages of grief, I think is like an older idea. There's a seven stages of grief, that, that breaks things down a little differently, and is way more hopeful at the end where you kind of, you start putting things back together again, you're working through them, you accept what's going on, and you actually end up feeling very hopeful. And just because you feel hopeful today, doesn't mean that something won't that you know that your pump won't fail while you're on, you know, a roller coaster at Six Flags. And you won't be like, Oh, this is depressing. It's ruined my whole day like you can you're going to bounce in and out of these things as you go. And not just with diabetes, by the way, life in general. I don't know if people realize that. We're all very basic, like organisms, right? Like we just we sort of do the same things over and over again. And when we reapply them to different ideas, somehow we're like, oh, diabetes is sad. Well, everything is sad. At some point, you know, like I get depressed about things like everyone else has, the bigger issue ends up being for people who hit that depression, pothole. And for real, physiological reasons can't actually get out of it ever. Like everybody gets depressed sometimes, but most people are able to get through it, the people who aren't there now, now they've now found a new another new issue that they need to deal with.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:25
Yes, yes. And I think that's, it's important to note that, you know, when we're talking about diabetes distress, it's, you might experience a certain level of distress at certain points throughout your, you know, career with with diabetes, and that's okay. I think the, the important part is to be aware of when you feel like, as you just were describing, you know, when did stress becomes, you can, you can have diabetes, of stress and struggle with the elements of living with diabetes and not be depressed, because maybe you're functioning in other areas of your life, or your job, your, your family life, your friendships. If you're an athlete, you know, it's, it can be different. But when it becomes when diabetes distress is prolonged, and you aren't able to either recognize symptoms, or reach out for help, or have community around you, that can, you know, it can transition into, you know, a full blown depression, diagnosis. And I think that's, that's what we're trying to prevent, you know, before it kind of impacts and impairs all of your levels of functioning,

Scott Benner 51:33
are there just some people who are predisposed? And eventually they're going to have a turn in their life that is so impactful, that they're going to become depressed? Like it like that it's always going to happen.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:47
But that's, that's a great question. I feel like could be almost another another episode, I feel like you're asking like are people are people predisposed to having depressed thoughts or experiencing depression?

Scott Benner 52:02
The same idea with diabetes, like if you have the markers, the genetic markers for type one diabetes, then your likelihood of getting it goes up. And if this happens, and that happens, and everything just kind of goes wrong for you, boom, you have type one diabetes, there are other people who have those markers, who never end up with type one. And so I'm assuming there are people who have markers for depression that they're unaware of. And then if they have life, circumstances that push them in that direction, that they're more likely to get caught in a real depression than other people are, because I've had some fairly terrible things happen to me in my life. But I've never had long bouts of depression. And there are other people who have had things happen to them that you know, are equal to mine, or less or more, who gets stuck in it for ever. And so my assumption is that, I don't know. Do you understand what my assumption is? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:55
yeah. Yeah. Are you are you kind of more prone to either depressed thinking or experiencing depression? because of certain genetic markers? I would say? Yes, that that is certainly does exist. But there's also the other components of life like the, your, your resiliency, you the people around you, the support that you have, I think is really crucial. If you are experiencing a, you know, a triggering event that might lead to depressed thinking or symptoms, or clinical depression, the the capacity for you to reach out for help. And are those all due to genetic markers? Maybe are those due to the fact that maybe your the community around you can support you or not? There are a lot of different I'd say factors around that. But yeah, it's a it's a both it's Yes. Both? And to answer your question,

Scott Benner 53:56
do you think that people so people who maybe know, in the past that they've had trouble or gotten stuck for longer times, then maybe feels what they see normal around them? If something like this happens to them? Should they be running right to a therapist? Should they be should they literally like, leave the hospital and go and call the therapist and be like, hey, look, my kid was just diagnosed with Type One Diabetes, I got a feeling this isn't gonna go Well, for me, like, let's start now because I've interviewed people who have like, I just did an interview the other day, that will be out in a little bit where, you know, this, this woman describes an incredibly happy life. And then at one point, she felt suicidal and said she had never felt that way ever. And it was after a diagnosis for a child. And, and then, you know, just as you described to had had a spouse with her, that was able to, you know, kind of keeper focused as this thing had hold of her and it took a very long time for her to get through it, but she luckily had somebody with her in that moment. You know, she could by herself, I just feel like, you know, what if she was a single parent, or didn't have a lot of family around her, like, how do you? How do you make that decision to get help when getting help? Seems like another failure?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:16
Right, right, or just another problem. Another problem, another thing to do, and maybe if you are in, you know, at an extreme level, experiencing extreme levels of depression, you know, it's hard to motivate to do anything. Yeah. And I think if, if we're talking about this, within that scope of diabetes, I mean, hopefully, because there has been such a shift, and a trend in, in our medical health providers, or health care providers to be more aware of the psychosocial symptoms for not only the person with diabetes, but also for the caregivers, that they would be assessing, you know, both both parties, at their level of their psychosocial care, their mental health. And so my, my hope would be that, that would be the starting point, you know, whether you're, you're coming in for your, your checkup, or you're bringing your child in for a checkup that they would be asking those questions. And if not, that you would be able to tell them, you know, how you're doing? And your question is, what if it becomes to a place where you feel like you can't reach out for help? I think that's where it may be reaching out for a mental health support is too much. Maybe exploring in sites like your like your podcast, you know, realizing that I think depression likes to tell the person that they are alone in that. And that becomes isolating, and it feels really scary to be in that state of mind. And so recognizing that you're not alone in that, and if it just means listening to your podcast, if it means going on a different website. jdrf just had their their summit, and there's a lot of great resources on their website from their summit this over the summer.

Scott Benner 57:07
Oracle, what was wrong with the idea of listening to the podcast? What are you doing driving people? What are you doing? I'm just kidding. Wherever you can find help. I'm happy for you to find it. Well, okay, so I know we're up on an hour. Do you have a little time beyond the hour if I drag you past it? Or you have a heart out?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:24
Um, I have. I have a little bit extra time. Yes. Okay.

Scott Benner 57:27
So I have one more question. As a real simple thing real quick. Is it true, I was told this at my daughter's diagnosis that the that in America, one in two marriages end in divorce, but when you have a critically or chronically ill child, excuse me, it goes to two and three?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:48
Well, I don't I don't, I can't back that. But

Scott Benner 57:51
is it more likely you're gonna get divorced if your kid gets sick?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:55
Gosh, I hope not. No, but I think like any other major stressor will be at financial or, you know, JOB, JOB insecurity. And that's chronic, you know, any other chronic stressor in a marriage is, is a challenge. But I think the important pieces, and I think you mentioned this in one of your podcasts that, you know, if one parent is the sole caregiver for the person, for the child with diabetes, that's, that's there's going to lead to burnout and maybe some feelings of resentment, unless that's already established. And you've communicated that. And that's the way you all want it to be, which would be hard to believe if that's if but if that's how your family setup works, then that's great. But I think the communication piece is so key and understanding without a sum without assuming, okay, well, you know, mom's at home, so she's going to take care of Bobby, or vice versa, like in your case. And so I think if there's the communication around that, that would help prevent issues of resentment.

Scott Benner 59:13
Oh, it's really easy to be like, Look, I'm doing everything and you're doing nothing. And, you know, because you cuz especially in the beginning, if you don't know what you're doing, it's already mind numbing. And then you start having that feeling like you're killing the person because you can't figure out how to use the insulin. That's an added thing, then you feel like you're alone and you're by yourself and no one's helping you. And then when your spouse acts like, Oh, that's your job. You're like, oh, wait a second. You know, like, I would love help, but it's also not reasonable like my wife and I came to the conclusion that it needed to be one of us, because as we tried to pass it back and forth, we would just we found it impossible because we found ourselves having to, like you know, recount everything that had happened. Like the nine hours prior, like, okay, so for breakfast, you know, it's six o'clock at night and you're telling someone who just got home from work, I breakfast this happen, we use this much, and it happened and bla bla bla bla, and then at lunch and then this and that you feel like you have to you feel like a nurse passing off to another nurse. Right? And so one day we were like, Alright, look, I'm gonna take care of it, we won't pass it back and forth, because this wasn't working for us. And so I don't feel any, like, bad feelings around the fact that it's, it's more me than it is her. But how did it just happen that way? Had she just like buried her head or like, you know, turned her back on me and started kicking up the ground. Like she found something interesting. While I was doing diabetes, I would have been angry, like, quite right, you know?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:43
Right. So yeah, you guys had that kind of pre determined role and responsibility set. And I think that's, that's key, you know, a lot of a lot of arguments or misunderstandings in just in marriages in general is without, you know, the assuming things, feeling like someone's someone has responsibility to do something when maybe it's a joint responsibility. So I think that's, that's great that you guys had that opportunity to have that conversation and agreement. Eric, I'm

Scott Benner 1:01:14
gonna ask you to generalize, then you're gonna tell me you're not going to, but it's not going to stop me from asking, okay, I've realized You're too professional. And you're on the ball. By the way, you must be really good at what you do. Because I talk in big word pictures. And you remember my question and come back to it afterwards, which I find incredibly impressive. I don't hear you're making think so. Well done. But look at me. I'm just like, I'm so impressed by that. Well, thank No, seriously. But here, here's my here's my statement that I'm going to ask you to agree with or tell me that I'm wrong. Boys are boys, and then they grow up and become men, and then they marry people. And then they're not as much help as the women just say it right? Like weak women are more generally speaking, focused. And familial, and guys are more like I made money already. Let me get to my PlayStation like that kind of like, Is that true? I know, there are some men who aren't I'm obviously one of those men who isn't like that. But for the most part, if we were just going to generalize, women are screwed, right? Go ahead set.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:19
Well, I'm curious, I'm curious as to where where you're going with this,

Scott Benner 1:02:22
I grew up in a blue collar world where men did not get involved in family. Uh huh. And then, and it all seems to be like this, you know, quiet agreement that people come to in their marriages, I do this, he does that he does this, I do that blah, blah, blah. And it all kind of works out. And the resentment is quiet takes decades to build. But then when you bring in the diabetes, real quick, everything gets jacked up. And now suddenly, he's not just ignoring the fact that the Christmas decorations need to go back in the basement. He's ignoring the fact that your kids blood sugar's 250. And now, and now what ends up happening is this goes from a thing that I find irritating because the house is a little bit of a mess, or we haven't fixed the hole on the roof or something like that, too. We're killing our kid and you don't seem to care. And then it has been my, my experience. And what I've witnessed from other people, is that women appear to have a genetic component to them that once they give birth to a child, they care very much about that child, and a lot less about everybody else who is not that child. So now you suddenly went from being like my boyfriend who became my husband becoming this guy who doesn't care about this 250 blood sugar, and now you're a danger. And am I wrong about all that? Like, that's just how I see people?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:46
Yeah, well, I think, you know, I, you're right, I'm not gonna generalize, because you wouldn't be as you're a professional. I because, you know, look, look at you. Okay, some point, I think there are families who create different structures for them within themselves. I think the issues that you are, like the example that you just gave, occurs, when there's not there's no communication, and that now they've gotten they've just kind of, you know, the partners have been set in their ways. And for better or for worse, and then when a when a major stressor occurs, such as a diagnosis, the, the rhythms and routines can become obviously troubling, but then then it's exactly exacerbated because now we're talking about our child who it's it feels life or death, you know, to manage their diabetes care. Yeah. And so if there's already this built in resentment that I'm doing, I'm doing x but you're doing y, but now you're not helping me with my child with our child. That creates obviously a major conflict And so I would, I would encourage people to, you know, what, what you have modeled and just explained within your family system, every family system is different. And while you know, there, there might be stereotypes of what the male or female or different partners do. It doesn't really matter when it comes down to your child who's living with diabetes, to get really clear with who was doing what, and what does that look like on a daily basis? Because if it's not clearly communicated and understood, then that resentment and that burnout is going to happen for the caregiver. And then you know, who knows what's happening for the child with the diabetes?

Scott Benner 1:05:46
Allow me now to argue the other side of it? Because really, did I believe what I said? Or was I just painting a picture, okay, and now, so here's the next side of it, right? You can get into a situation where, hey, you one person are in charge of the kids, you make decisions like this, I'm not involved, I haven't been involved in two years, three years, four years, five years, I feel out of the loop, you seem to be doing such a good job with the diabetes, this is a scary thing. I don't know anything about it. I'm very afraid to mess it up. So I think that there can be a time where one of the spouses looks disengaged, but is really just frightened out of their mind. Yeah, but doesn't have the extra problem of being the person with the kid. So they get to walk away from it. Whereas you are frightened out of your mind. But you're stuck there making the decision. So you figure something out, tried, it doesn't work, try something else, this works. Now you're going through trial and error on your side, the other person's not going through that. And because of that, they can feel more like, hey, maybe I should stay out of this. I think there are plenty of people who heard me say the first thing that I said and thought, yeah, that's right, my husband or wife is is an apple, and they don't help me with this, and blah, blah, blah. But I also think that that person could have heard it and thought I just don't want to mess this up. And it seems really important, and I don't know what I'm doing. I think that there's a misunderstanding, almost constantly between married people, like I think we mischaracterize each other almost constantly. Do you think that's true? You talk to married people? Do people not really understand each other?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:07:24
Well, I think not not consistently, but I think there are moments or events, or going back to you notice any stressor that might challenge our, our understanding of one another of what the you know, relationship looks like? I think, you know, I'd be curious and, you know, I have seen couples who are, you know, we I'm working with it with the child with diabetes, but also the couple who are are struggling with that dynamic of, well, you know, she takes care of the house and I and I do the diabetes, or vice versa. Or, you know, whatever, whatever role is defined for each person. But then there's that the fear of not knowing or maybe the other person is feeling like the partners passive in the in the children's care, diabetes care. So it all goes back to what are what is everyone feeling in the moment? Let's communicate around that. I mean, I'm curious if you do have check in times with your wife like, does she want to, to be more a part of the care

Scott Benner 1:08:34
or you better know if she's mad money making money, Erica, she better not lift her head up, I need her working your stand. She's not allowed to look up, she's allowed to eat, use the bathroom twice and work. That's it. That's her job. Now I know, we are we, when when life allows. we bump into each other and fill each other end, when that really ends up being how it goes. I would love to tell you that I have a specific time for it. But that's not reasonable. You know, sometimes it's before bed, which by the way completely kills the idea of having sex when you're like, oh, the kids are having trouble with school and blah, blah, and you're just like, I'm gonna go to bed now. That we're you know, like, we'll stop. I have to be honest, because of COVID. We're around each other more often. We just had a conversation before I jumped on with you about something that would not have happened before. And I'm going to tell you from my experience, these little like pitstops are super important because once they get to build up, your conversations turn into this mishmash of like you blurting out a bunch of stuff you meant to say her trying to respond she blurting out a bunch of stuff she meant to say you try and respond. I've never seen one of those conversations go well in my life. But you know, like you have to everyone smile, stop and say, Hey, did you see that this happened? Or that you know, college said that they're going to go back but this that doesn't seem right. Maybe we should figure something else out because keep people thinking about things over time. They're To me, it's just a constant conversation. Yes. And it's yes doesn't always go great. It's just the best you can do. The problem with managing a life is that you're trying to live one at the same time. Yes, there's two competing things happening in every second of your day.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:10:16
Yes, and I think sometimes for the caregiver, you know, the caregiver just might need some validation to I think it's important, just like we're asking, I would ask the person with diabetes to ask for what they need, do they need some more problem solving? Or do they need some validation? I mean, those aren't the only two things you could be asking for. But those are kind of the main points. And just like, you know, apply those same ideas to the caregiver, does the caregiver needs some more problem solving around how to manage your child's diabetes? Or are they just wanting some validation of like, Wow, it must be really hard to really monitor you know, Bobby's blood sugar's while also trying to do all the things you want to do for your own life. That must be really, really challenging. And thank you so much for doing that. I mean, I think, like, basic validation, and gratitude goes a long way. But to be to ask for what you need as a caregiver, and also for the person with diabetes if you're able,

Scott Benner 1:11:15
and this goes for being married in general, right, like, because I think that I think that overall, people think there's two ways that marriages end either you just get sick of each other, and you go your separate ways, or you give up and die. And that's not those shouldn't be the two basically conceived endings of how marriage go.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:33
And

Scott Benner 1:11:34
I think there's a way to realize that there, you're shooting for a long time, that there are going to be good days and bad days, good weeks, and bad weeks, good months and bad months, good years and bad years. Like I once told my wife when we were first married, she's like, what's your expectation for all this? I said, Well, listen, if we stay married our whole life, it'll end up being maybe about 40 years, if we're lucky. I think if we have, you know, 10 really great years and 10 Okay, years and five years, it sucked in five years that weren't too bad. that'll probably be pretty good. You know, like, like, I mean, I think that a striving for perfection constantly, is a bit of a fool's errand. And it really just leaves you more let down than fulfilled. I think there's Yes, you know, what I mean, like, everything can't be perfect all the time.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:12:21
That's exactly and it leads to the thinking of, you know, I'm I'm not a good enough. You know, parent, I'm not a good enough caregiver. I'm not a good enough partner, spouse. And so yes, the the validation, the gratitude and the self compassion are our key. Yeah. to kind of get through the long haul of diabetes when they're in a family system for sure. Right.

Scott Benner 1:12:45
Yeah. Once you've heard my stories, 800,000 times, there's got to be something else that makes you go, I'd still be okay, waking up tomorrow, if he was here. And like that, you know, and I think what you just said is really important is that we're all just, I mean, listen, I can be completely honest, I need validation, just like everybody else does. I know, I'm doing a good job. But if the people I'm working so hard for don't appear to care, then what's the point of it? You know what I mean? And they can you can feel like that at some point, like, nobody seems to care. And I get that, you know, nobody's gonna run around telling you, I really appreciate my laundry being clean. You know, and I'm not looking for that. I'm not looking for someone to come up to me every five minutes. But there's a moment where, you know, Arden has Chinese food going into a donut and I don't let her blood sugar go over 110 where it would be cool. If someone would look over and be like, Damn, you're good at that. I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:13:37
like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:13:40
say that. I'll say that. That's really impressive. Erica,

Scott Benner 1:13:42
put your ABC right in the fives. No trouble you come over here. I really appreciate you doing this. I this conversation was everything I hoped it would be. And I'm hoping you might decide to come back on more than once because I think there's a lot more to talk about in this was great.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:14:00
Oh, wonderful. I would love to thank you. I really I really enjoyed it as well.

Scott Benner 1:14:08
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, g Volk, glucagon, find out more about chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box, you spell that GVO ke GLUC AG o n.com forward slash juice box. Don't forget you can get your free no obligation demo of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box and learn more about touched by type one at touched by type one.org or on their Facebook or Instagram pages.

If you're listening in a podcast app Please press subscribe, and if the show has been valuable to you, please share it with someone else. Have a great day. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast. You can learn more about Erica at Erica forsyth.com erikaforsyth.com

#406 Patrolling with Type 1 Diabetes

Sean is a Police Officer living with type 1 diabetes

Sean is a 26-year-old police officer who employs the tips and tricks discussed on the podcast to keep his glucose levels stable so that he is able to more readily respond when his job throws something unexpected at him while he works rolling daytime and overnight shifts, as well as potentially adrenaline-spiking SWAT-team roles. He wants to show other Type 1 diabetics that it is more than possible to join the force if they are interested.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 406 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's show is sponsored by Dexcom, makers to the G six continuous glucose monitor the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, and touched by type one touched by type ones 20th annual dancing for diabetes show is virtual this year. And you can watch it at touched by type one.org. It'll be available on November 14. That's this Saturday, November 14 2020. At 7pm eastern time, I just spoke with Elizabeth the other day, and they filmed the entire event in a huge auditorium said it was really exciting. And definitely worth your time. You know what else is worth your time the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump and you can get a free no obligation demo of that pod sent directly to your home absolutely for the free by going to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box and of course@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box you can find out a lot about the Dexcom g six, like how to get it what it is. And oh by the way, if you get your health care through the VA Dexcom is now covered.

Shawn lives with Type One Diabetes. He's a husband and a police officer. And today we're gonna talk about a little of all of that here on the Juicebox Podcast. Key Imagine if I did it all like that. I'd be like, oh, welcome to the Juicebox Podcast Today Show. Anyway, Sean's a cop. I grew up around a lot of police officers. And so I have a little bit of background about what it's like to be a police officer tiny little bit, a little bit of background. And generally, if you understand I'm saying to Shawn, and I got along very well. He told me how the podcast helped him what it's like to do his job with Type One Diabetes. And he wanted to come on to encourage young people who'd like to be in law enforcement, and who are living with Type One Diabetes, to know that they can. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Searching for Spanish to blooms on the bottom of the oceans are becoming bold with insulin. Oh, I've piqued your interest, haven't I? Let's get to song.

Sean Hunter 2:40
I'm Sean Hunter. I'm 26 years old, from Camden County, New Jersey. I'm a type one diabetic, then diabetic for 17 years. And I'm a police officer also in Camden County, New Jersey. And that's why I was interested in coming on and talking to you, Scott.

Scott Benner 2:58
That's amazing, because I think you're the first police officer that's reached out and said, You know, I I'm happy for you to tell people on police. I think I've interviewed other police officers, but they haven't brought up what they are. Which is interesting sometimes, but I was I was really pleased with the, with your with your note, interestingly, I grew up around, you're gonna be able to tell in a second because I'm gonna say cops instead of police officers because I don't know how often I can say police officers, but I grew up around cops, and right. Just one of my best friends in the whole world with time. And then sort of by proxy, you get drawn into their life a little bit. So you know, I've been at picnics with 40 police officers are going on motorcycle rides with 50 guys that are all cops, you know, in the middle of the night, which by the way, if you've never ridden a motorcycle at midnight with 50 cops gear you're missing.

Sean Hunter 3:50
It sounds like fun.

Scott Benner 3:53
there's a there's a real feeling that we can't get a ticket if you know what I mean. Yeah. Anyway,

Sean Hunter 4:00
yeah, I was sorry, Clay off. I was I was just excited to come on and try and give some, you know, point of view from the law enforcement side, you know, hope play, there's people out there that are type one diabetics that are cops and they're, you know, can listen to this. Or, you know, maybe there's kids out there that are that want to be copson they're kinda skeptical because of the diabetes. I'm trying to, you know, open it kinda

Scott Benner 4:27
possible, right? Yeah. Well, you know, there's a real irony in this that last night, I edited a episode that's going to go up today, with a young woman in Massachusetts, I think she's 26 honestly, when I recorded whether she'd only had diabetes for about a nine months when I recorded with her and she wants to be a police officer. And it's just it's very strange as I didn't you know, I didn't schedule that to happen like that, obviously, but it was it was really interesting. So let's talk a little bit first about being diagnosed when you're nine. So that's old enough to have a memory of it. I imagine. And probably in one of those sweet spots for boys where I don't imagine you were thrilled to find out.

Sean Hunter 5:07
Yeah, so obviously I was not years old. I was it was during the summer, I don't really remember the date. But all I remembers that one of the most distinct memories, I was at a pool party, and, you know, I really couldn't quench my thirst, which is one of those, you know, signs. And instead of drinking water, you know, I'm a little kid, I wanted to drink soda, which obviously was then splitting my blood sugar up higher, which I had no idea about. But then my parents, you know, throughout the night, that the next couple of nights, they were keep an eye on me, they thought I was dehydrated. My dad's an EMT. So he said, you know, pay to my mom on pay, take him to the hospital. Maybe he's just dehydrated, they'll give them some fluids and send them home. When we went to the hospital, I went in told the intake person my symptoms, they brought me immediately back because they know the symptoms of diabetes. And I was kind of in that age group. Yeah. And they tested my sugar and I was 898. Wow,

Scott Benner 6:09
you're well on your way to something. Had you? Do you remember how you felt poorly? For how long prior to that? Did it come on quickly? Or what's what is hindsight then tell you how it was happening? Do you remember,

Sean Hunter 6:20
it was probably like three to five days that I was, you know, feeling really bad throwing up a lot. Obviously, using the bathroom a lot, not keeping any food down. And I my mom said my my eyes were sinking back, you know, just look like I was dying, which I

Scott Benner 6:36
was. Yeah. So you were in decay?

Sean Hunter 6:39
Yeah, pretty much. And I you know, I don't really have I don't really have any memory of that. The only memory I have of being in the hospital is that my mom was so nervous that she went to get her insurance card out of her purse, and she dropped like $300 worth of change on the floor that she had in her purse. was like the last you know, like, yeah,

Scott Benner 6:59
sure, on Vita mom's always have so much change in their purse, like I dated a girl for a long time. She never had a quarter and then suddenly I had a couple babies with her and she's got to fistfuls a change in her purse. I don't understand. Yeah,

Sean Hunter 7:12
I don't know why. But it was it was just a little bit of laughter to kind of break the the seriousness of the situation. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:17
Now that's, that's amazing. Hey, listen, your voice is cutting in and out on me a little bit. Okay, so when you're pausing, it's you probably have noise cancelling on your headphones. And so every time you stop talking, it wants to take away background noise. So let's try to figure out a way around that. First of all, is that are those The only headphones you have? Do you have like gamer headphones or something like that by any chance?

Sean Hunter 7:40
I don't think so. I can check.

Scott Benner 7:42
Even Apple just on the wire with the microphone in the cord.

Unknown Speaker 7:47
Let me go Look,

Scott Benner 7:48
I don't believe so. Okay, and if not, I have another idea. So your mom has her little moment of levity that kind of breaks the ice a little bit. You go back were you in the hospital long? How long do they keep you

Sean Hunter 8:01
so that night, they gave me fluids brought my sugar back down, I assume you know, insulin and all that stuff. And then they transferred me to chop in Philly. And I stayed there for a week.

Unknown Speaker 8:16
Week.

Sean Hunter 8:18
Yeah, so I was there for a week for education, I guess. And but I specifically remember being there for a week and playing Xbox and doing all this cool stuff at CHOP. You know, it was it was a cool hospital for kids. So

Scott Benner 8:31
they do a nice job there of, of taking care of kids. You know, you and I live pretty near each other right?

Sean Hunter 8:37
Yeah, that's that was another reason I wanted to talk to you is kind of cool. having another new jersey in?

Scott Benner 8:41
Yeah. Yeah, so that's, that's that's Arden's hospital. That's not where she was. Not where she was diagnosed, but it's where her endocrinologist is out of Do you use a an adult endo now in New Jersey?

Sean Hunter 8:54
Yeah. So I use um, Cooper. endocrinology, I just commented on your post in the group actually, the other day use a Dr. Becker from Cooper.

Scott Benner 9:05
It's funny, you were not the only one that brought up that practice. So that's usually a good sign when people are like, Oh, this place this place, you know? Yeah, that's excellent. It's hard to find to a good adult endocrinology. And you would have some feeling about that, too, because you left chop that does a really good job for kids. And did you be able to find Cooper right away? Or was there any struggle in between?

Sean Hunter 9:30
Yeah, so I actually stayed with chop until I think I was 20 or 21. I really didn't want to leave and and I was, you know, I was the really old guy going in and seeing all these little kids. So they kind of pushed me out. But I found Cooper really easily. They referred me there and it was a good transition.

Scott Benner 9:47
It's a funny image, by the way of you just you rolling through like Hey, guys, what's up?

Sean Hunter 9:52
Yeah, on the veteran walking through with these little kids that are diagnosed.

Scott Benner 9:57
So how old were you when you thought You want to be a police officer?

Sean Hunter 10:02
going throughout high school? I think so like in that 14 to 18 range. I grew up with public servants in my family. And, you know, I enjoyed seeing them go out and make a difference in the world. And that's the reason why I wanted to become a cop. So I think as of then, it really, you know, drew my attention, I wanted to go do it. And then I, you know, obviously went to college and studied criminal justice and, you know, started to pursue that career field.

Scott Benner 10:36
And there are two paths, there's two paths to it, am I correct that you can go to college and take a criminal justice track? Or you can just go right to the police academy to is, is that the other option? Or is that not like that anymore?

Sean Hunter 10:49
No, that's true there,

there are a lot of different options, you could actually even pay your own way through an academy, um, without having really any I mean, I think you need some sort of college credits. But you can pay your own way through and then kind of get hired out of the police academy with that, you know, police training, commission certification,

Scott Benner 11:09
so I grew up around a, like I said, a lot of police officers, none of them directly in my family, but good friends, you know, through my, my late teens, who are a little older than me, and I know, scads of great cops, people who want to be cops, for the right reason, do a great job at it. I've been at it for decades. And I've seen a couple who were sketchy along the way. But I have the greatest sketchy story that I'm going to share with you at some point, because it's hilarious. And, and I and I want to, I've never said this on the podcast before. But when I was 18, because of being around these people, and having no real direction in my life, I thought, I'd like to be a police officer, and my local town was hiring three, right. And so back, then they put out a test, and you took the test, and that test would whittle down. And then there was a, you know, interviews and it went down to this process, then they chose from that group of people and sent those people off to the police academy. So I'm barely 19 years old by the time the test comes up. And, Sean, it's weird when you hear me talk on the podcast, because I probably seem like an idiot. But I, I'm bright in strange ways that don't show in regular life, which is right, it was just, it's hard to put into words. But this test ended up basically just being an IQ test. It was a fancy IQ test. And I crushed it. And so when I first told, you know, a friend of mine, who back then was just an officer, you know, that I wanted to do this, the first thing he said was, you mean, you're 19 they're not going to give you a gun. He's like these, like, you're never going to get through this process. He's like, you're old enough, technically, you know, air quotes, but no one's gonna let you be a cop when you're 19. And I was like, I'm gonna take the test anyway. So I take the test and, and just days before the test, the lieutenant comes to my house and says, Hey, listen, we think this is great. But you know, you need to know you're too young, and we're not gonna, you're never gonna make it through. And I was like, okay, and it seems all very, like, you know, I was like, Alright, I understand this. But I did so well on the test that they couldn't weed me out. So the next thing I know, I have an interview. And it's me and want the top 20 people. And you know, you're young, I just figured I must have been the 20th person. And at the end of the interview with some of the lieutenants, and desert in certain designated officers. At the end, they told me how well they thought I did. And of course, that I wasn't going to make it to the next round, because, you know, I'm 19. And then a couple weeks later, the letters come out, and I make it to the next round. And now I'm in the interviews with a 10. By the time it was over, I was top six for that.

Unknown Speaker 13:58
Because I really wanted, you

Scott Benner 13:59
know, well, they they wanted me to be older is what they wanted, you know, but I hadn't done anything yet that made them think we can't just tell him No, like he's doing better in these interviews than people. And he did you know, and so when it got down to the top six, I actually by then I was like, is this gonna happen? Like, even I started, I'm only 19 they probably shouldn't give me a go. Look, I started having that thought. And, you know, it eventually went away gracefully. And people were very nice about it. And you know, the the end result was You're too young to be a police officer in our eyes and but you know, try again, and by the time and you know, like openings don't come that often it was a smaller price. And by the time they did I sort of in my mind moved on. But it was a very strange like nine month period where everyone in the town was like I began to give that kid a gun but it's exactly how it felt for a while. But But you went to college and you got a you know, a criminal justice degree. Did anything in college dissuade you? Or were you like straight on the whole way? Like, this is what I'm gonna do. Um,

Sean Hunter 15:06
so I think originally, before I went to college, I wanted to do something like physical therapy or physical therapy, personal trainer kind of background. I'm really into sports. And you know, I played baseball throughout college. But I really wanted to help people and you know, serve. And that was one of the things that I, I really wanted to do. So I don't think anything really dissuaded me after I went to college. If anything, it pushed me forward, you know, having really good professors who were retired police officers, lieutenants, chiefs and stuff like that, that, you know, really pushed me towards that goal.

Scott Benner 15:47
And you're not, you're not a cop in a, like, a nice little town like the one where I was trying to be a police officer, like, you're, you have a tough job, don't you?

Sean Hunter 15:57
We're in a smaller town, but we are, you know, definitely a pretty busy town with with a lot of different calls for service and, you know, some pretty serious crimes that happen. So it's, you know, it's, we definitely get our share of fun stuff that happens.

Scott Benner 16:11
Yeah, I have an acquaintance from years ago, who's an older gentleman, older than I. And he was, I did a task force in South Jersey serving drug warrants. And he said he could only do it for about a year, he says, most heartbreaking, horrible job he had ever had in his life. And about a year into it, he went back to his chief, and he's like, I can't do this anymore. Like, yeah, it needs to be someone else.

Sean Hunter 16:38
Yeah, I actually started my career in a pretty infamous city down in South Jersey. I worked there for almost three years. And then I switched departments. And I'm in a, like I said, a smaller town now, but still pretty busy.

Scott Benner 16:53
You know, you and I might have a conversation after this is over, because the stories he told me were not they're not appropriate for the show. They have nothing to do with diabetes, but they're horrifying. And, and they've shaped a lot about how I think about some of the jobs people have to do. So you know, so you're, you're into helping people with your father's health, your father knows he's still an EMT.

Sean Hunter 17:16
He, so he slowed down a little bit on the EMT side, he's a paid firefighter, he actually just got promoted to Deputy Chief, he actually works in the same town I work in as a police officer.

Scott Benner 17:25
Isn't that interesting? My dad did volunteer firefighting. When we were kids, he never became professional at it. But he was a dedicated guy who kind of broke the what some people might have is a, I don't know, a vision of what a volunteer fireman is a guy trying to get away from his family drinking beer at the back of a of a building, it has a couple of fire trucks in it, but he really cared about it and, and did really good work. And for a number of years. You know, especially before alarm systems became common, there were a lot more fires, like the realize or not, things don't burn down as much as they used to 20 years ago. But he was a firefighter during a time in our town and surrounding places where things really, really, they needed firefighters and there were some serious building fires. And I actually did it for three years, through my teenagers as well. And I only did it for three years, but I learned a lot about being calm. Okay, and not freaking out when most other people are freaking out. And it's it's an interesting thing until you've stood in a room that is completely on fire, like walls, ceiling, and you've got a hose in your hand and you know, the you went in there to save the building but you realize now you're then there to save yourself. You know, it's a it's a it's a different thing. And and I wonder about that with being a police officer, like how much of your day is spent? Like how hard is that? I guess is my question to go out into the world with a with the idea. I'm out there trying to help other people, but your first thought is always I can't help them. If I'm dead, like is that in your head constantly? What's it like to be on the street? It's my question.

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Sean Hunter 23:15
It's definitely in the back of your head. And you always have to think about that. When you're going, you know to calls for service or you're stopping cars or anything like that, you always have to think about their situations and because if you're not thinking about it, and something happens, you're not going to be able to react to it. But it can't let it you know, take over you know your mind and take over the situation you have to obviously we have a job to do. Whether that is to help someone or if we end up having to arrest someone or you know anything like that. Like I said, you can't really let those thoughts take over that situation. But it always has to be in that the back of your mind. I've been to a lot of training. And I've listened to a lot of people talk and they kind of talk to they're talking about it like like flipping your switch, you always have to have a little bit of violence on standby, you know. And that's, that's something that you have to train and you get used to as you gain experience on the job. You know, you can't expect the guy with six months on the job to come in and say, you know, be able to flip that switch. But, you know, maybe a guy with five or 10 years old job he's more acquainted with that violence that he has on standby. He can. If he has to use it, he can, you know,

Scott Benner 24:36
yeah, it's a special person that can kind of walk that line and I have always seen with the people I know who are police officers, that some of the hardest. One of the hardest things they have to do personally, I think is be able to separate I guess I don't know a better way to say it. But I what I noticed is that their entire day is spent with people who are breaking the law or trying to get over or something like that? And then how hard is it not to, in your personal life think that everybody's trying to get over and treat people like people when you're home, but be have enough, you know, I don't know, just, you know, understanding of what the world can be like, you often don't find a job where you're directed at crime constantly, or people who are in that mindset. And I know, you'll still run into citizens who need help, and they're obviously not thinking like that. But when you get there, right, when you get out of that car, like, Who's Who? And how do you figure that out? And you know, and how do you stop yourself from being suspicious of everybody? Do you find that yet? Are you have you not been in it long enough to have that like, feeling?

Sean Hunter 25:51
No. So I definitely, I definitely know where we're coming from its I definitely, you know, see people different, even when I'm not at work, we're just going out with a family stuff like that, you know, you definitely kind of look at people differently. And you kind of, because you have to, you know, especially if you're living in that, that yellow area, where you're trying to react to things, you definitely see people differently. But if you're going to a situation, and you have to find out what's going on that just takes good investigative skills, and, you know, that's all built over time. I would say that I'm definitely you know, getting better at when Sam great, you know, only having five years on the job. But you know, you gain those skills over time. And you get better at finding out who's the good person who's the bad person, just based off of their reactions and their demeanor,

Unknown Speaker 26:47
learn to read people?

Unknown Speaker 26:48
Right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 26:49
So we're gonna get into how this all affects your diabetes or doesn't or how you deal with it in a second. But have you had a moment yet where you thought, No, I don't need to be a cop anymore. Like has anything really frightening happened that makes you rethink it. I mean, one of my close friends always tells me about the first home intrusion he went into that was happening. And he got in the house and the intruder went into the basement. And you know, the homeowners like he went downstairs and my friend standing at the top of the staircase, and he pulls his gun out and starts going downstairs and realizes as he's going down that because of the makeup of the house, that his legs and his entire lower half of his body are going to be visible long before he can get his eyes into the space. And he said there was a split second there where he thought, why don't I just leave? And but he did. He went down and did what he was supposed to do. But he's like, there was that moment where he's like, do I really want to be a police officer? And now's the time? No, you know, have you had one of those yet? Or how's it gone for the first five years,

Sean Hunter 27:49
um, there's definitely been a lot of those, you know, those pucker moments, if you want to call them that, um, I just recently think within the last eight months or so, I was put on our regional county SWAT team. So there's definitely been a lot of those moments where if we are clear, and a house, or we're going into a situation where we're possibly going to go in and find someone you know, you, you kind of think about it like, and this is kind of crazy, like we're the guys that are going in. We're the first people who are going to get hurt if something happens. But I think we kind of wear that as a badge of pride, like, Hey, we're the guys that went in and found this person that were the first were the people that went in and got the job done. And I think it's, it's a little bit crazy sometimes, but I think that's something that you have to have as a police officer to kind of have that, that pride of saying, Hey, I'm, I'm the guy that got that job done. I'm the guy that went out and did that thing, you know?

Scott Benner 28:47
Yeah, no, I hear you. Um, so I have to tell you my funny story, and then I'm gonna get into how diabetes is this? So I grew up in this in a pretty small town. And I'm going to give not enough details especially because the internet back then, you know, you could find it if you tried hard enough, but we I grew up in this small town, you know, the police department have probably 10 or 15 guys, it's grown over the years. And there was this one officer who was just quiet. He went about his business. He wrote his tickets. He didn't really do much else. That was kind of the vibe about him like you don't I mean, like he wasn't gonna wasn't gonna do much and he was just gonna do what he was supposed to do. And, and he just was he was wallpaper he just there he was, and you saw him you never thought twice about him. He's a decent enough guy wasn't a bad guy. Nothing like that. And then one day, he gets arrested. Because, wait, hold on, I swear to you, you're gonna love this. He found out about sunken treasure in the ocean and decided that he was going to die for it. And this was going to be how he's going to live the rest of his life off of these The blooms, okay, but how is he going to get enough money for the dive? Obviously, he's going to start robbing drug houses in the area. So he did, and was fairly successful at it for a while. if my memory serves, until one day, he went into a place, you know, a place where a lot of people were doing drugs, and they were selling drugs out of the place that he knew about. He went in there as a police officer to rob the place, but she had been doing and someone using drugs in the place if I my memory serves the son of a local politician, recognize them. Wow. And that's how he got caught. No lie. This story goes that he went to prison did his time and then got out and disappeared. And people think he went and found that treasure and left because they never got the money back from the robberies. He just he shut up. He did his time he held on to his money. He got out and he and they think he went and got that money somehow off the ocean floor. So I always imagine this man somewhere on an island, just with a big smile on his face with that same sort of like lackadaisical, like, I'm just here. Like, I just think of him as just existing. I don't know if that's actually what happened to him. But in my mind, that's, that's how I like to think of him. But that's not right.

Sean Hunter 31:20
Yeah, I can't even I can't even wrap my head around that. doing that, that's crazy.

Scott Benner 31:26
It was as much about the fact that he was just the quietest guy who was probably at the time, near 50 years old, he probably been a cop 15 or 20 years. Like he just really, it was insane. And it's 100% true. And I know it's true, because I know enough of the details to Google it and I just found two news stories on it while I was talking to you. So I know. It's not just stories that people told. But that was that like, you know, you woke up one day and you're like, Hey, remember, Officer blah, blah? Yeah, you got arrested? How come? He was robbing drug houses to make money to go look for Spanish to blooms on the bottom of the ocean floor? And you're like, Get the hell out of here. Anyway, I hope you don't go that way, Sean.

Sean Hunter 32:06
No, I don't I don't plan on it.

Scott Benner 32:09
What's that I don't think he had planned on it his whole life. And one day he snapped, like, I guess it was just one too many free medium coffees from 711. He was like, I'm done with this. Anyway, what I really want to know about is, you know, we just described a job that is can be, you know, fulfilling, you're off helping citizens. It can go from that fulfillment to anxiety and adrenaline very quickly. You have to be ready at a moment's notice. How do you manage your type one diabetes through that, that's why you're here. I really want to hear how you do that.

Sean Hunter 32:44
Um, so I, I was actually using a Medtronic pump, but I just switched to an omni pod. Okay. And I use the.com g six. Um, so you actually pushed me towards the Omni pod with your ads. Oh, on yours worker show.

Scott Benner 33:03
Excellent. Hey, dex coming on the pod the ads work, keep buying them.

Sean Hunter 33:09
But yeah, so I use Omni pod in the Dexcom. And I kind of just use the principles that you talked about, while I'm at work, you know, pretty bolusing and bumping and nudging are the two big things that I try to use. You know, not trying to, you know, use or have mountains in my, my numbers, you know, what I mean? Just have them be small rolling hills, if I, if they end up getting too high or too low,

Scott Benner 33:41
you know, so is creating that stability, helping you when out of nowhere, you do a car stop, and something looks weird, and you feel that adrenaline kick in does your blood sugar jump up at that time does it try

Sean Hunter 33:54
who I haven't really ever had too much of an effect from adrenaline, just my, my sugar going too high. But it definitely having a more stable blood sugar and more stable numbers throughout the day definitely helps. If something does, you know, go bed and say I'm away from my my snacks or something like that. It definitely helps to have a more stable number. If I, if I'm away from things for a while, you know, see, I

Scott Benner 34:22
think that's interesting what you just said, so that when you and I believe this as well, when you create stability that runs over hours and days, then when something happens that some people see is like, Oh, this thing threw me way off. I think they don't realize the whole picture. Sometimes if their bezels too high or too low, if they're bolusing too much at meals because their bezels too low or whatever the things are. They have this imbalance of insulin running through their life. And then when something happens, it's easier for things to get upside down because so many other things are wrong. So now that you've created the stability when things come up, you're okay, what about? Excuse me? What about you ever have to, like suddenly jump on foot and take off? Do these it in your head? Like, like, I give it to me? Like, are you ever gonna go pull your gun and pull out a candy bar instead? Because you've got stuff on you like, how do you handle like, like, when you're away from the car, I guess? Are you out of that?

Sean Hunter 35:23
Yeah, so I actually always have something with me, I always have like a glucose jellen, I have like two or three in my pocket at work. But like I said, I always try to keep my blood sugar pretty stable. If I feel like I'm going low, I will correct it before it gets, you know, too low. Just in case something like that does happen. And being on, you know, different scenes in different situations. You know, I like I said, I always try and keep stuff on me. There have been situations where if I'm standing outside of the house on the perimeter, and I'm going loads, like, hey, let me you know, I put call the guy up to me and say, Hey, you know, watch this side, I'm gonna just, you know, shoot some glucose real quick. And then I'll, you know, right back in the flight, but like I said, I try to keep everything pretty stable. So I don't have to get into that situation. So I can go an hour or two inside of the house, or on a job and not have to worry about my sugar crashing or spiking.

Scott Benner 36:25
Yeah. So because that's sort of your reality. While you're at work, do you find that your management? I'm gonna say control, although I know some people don't like that idea. But do you find that your control is better while you're working? Because you're more present about it? Or do you carry that into your regular life? Because you do work shift work as well?

Sean Hunter 36:43
Yeah, so we switch each month. So I'm actually working on days, this month, and then next month, we'll switch to tonight work where we work a 12 hour shift. So we work 630 to 630. And, but I actually, like you said, I actually think I have better control while I'm at work. Because, like you said that, that awareness that things could go bad really quick, you know?

Scott Benner 37:12
Yeah. And so the reason I bring it up is because it's a, it's a simple idea that translates to everybody's life. And, you know, you can say it anyway, you know, I've said it a bunch of different ways over the years. But if you pay attention for small moments, you don't get into big problems. It's when you try to ignore diabetes for 346 hours at a time and just hope that it's going to be okay, that you wake up to find, oh, my blood sugar's 200 points higher than I thought, or I've been 50 all night long, or something like that. But when you just look once in a while, it takes a brief couple of moments to say, Oh, I'm good, or I need a little bump here or something and get right back in the game. I'd much rather spend 30 seconds, never getting way out of bounds then pretending for three or four hours that everything's okay. And so I when you're describing how you handle work, I thought I bet you He's, like, really within tolerances. At that time. Where do you set your, your goals that high and low on your CGM.

Sean Hunter 38:15
So before listening to you, I had them wherever Dexcom has been preset, I think it's 70 to like 220 or something like that. Okay. But since listening to you, I bumped it down to originally 70 to 140. And now on 70 to 130. Good for you.

Scott Benner 38:31
You're a one sees probably sub six. We like 5758

Sean Hunter 38:36
as one so I, I just started listening to your podcast in January, I think. And then my next appointment after that, I think was in March. And I was at like 6.1. And I'm excited to go and get my bloodwork done for my next appointment because I'm fairly certain I'm going to be under six.

Scott Benner 38:57
Congratulations. That's very, very well done. But were you prior to finding the show? Do you mind saying

Sean Hunter 39:05
I think I was low low sevens or high sixes I could probably pull it up. I probably like a six, seven to seven. You know,

Scott Benner 39:14
that's a that's a really great adjustment. Do you feel differently by any chance?

Sean Hunter 39:20
I definitely feel better. I'm especially so before even when I would go work out you know, go to the gym, do stuff like that. It was tough trying to keep my sugar in rain. Okay, but then being able to find a good basal rate. I can go out into the gym and work out for an hour and not have my sugar go out of range for that hour, hour and a half. You know, and that's that's something that is, is pretty freeing for me because I work out a lot and that's one of the things I enjoy doing.

Scott Benner 39:52
How did you handle it in college because I know at every level of baseball, it doesn't matter what division you're in the guys They lift a lot they do a lot of hard workouts practices are long. Were you constantly feeding your insulin when you were in college?

Sean Hunter 40:08
Yeah, so I can tell you that I was a terrible diabetic in college. It's one of the things I regret a lot about my life as a diabetic. Probably the last three years, or, you know, the first three years, my senior year, I was definitely more focused on it. But I wouldn't check a lot. I wasn't using a CGM throughout college. So, you know, I was checking my sugar, but I was using the Medtronic pump. But I wouldn't check my blood sugar a lot. I wouldn't really only do it, you know, before bed. And then after I woke up in the morning, you know, and then kind of just ride the feeling I had throughout the day, if I felt low, I would eat if I felt like I was too high, give myself insulin. And, again, like I said, that's that's one of the things I kind of regret about my life as a diabetic is kind of just living that. uncontrolled life for for a few years in my college years.

Scott Benner 41:07
How was it before college when your parents were more involved? Do you remember being similar?

Sean Hunter 41:14
Yeah, I mean, I was, I was pretty good. I wasn't, you know, anything crazy, like I am now you know, where I'm in pretty tight control. But I was more controlled, because obviously, they're looking over my shoulder. And they're making sure that I'm doing things correctly and making sure I'm testing for from meals and giving myself insulin prior to eating rather than after eating and you know, stuff like that.

Scott Benner 41:36
Yeah. Well, I have to say that it's impressive what you've done end on a personal level, I feel like, in an indirect way, I'm protecting South Jersey now. So I feel like I feel like I'm making it easier for you to protect them. And so I'm gonna take credit my own mind, I won't say it. Anybody else except for the 10s of thousands of people that are hearing me say it right now. But that's not the point. Really. I'm joking, mostly. But I'm happy that you're able to do your job better and live a better life just off of a couple of small ideas. Really? You know, right tools. Right job. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to oversimplify it. But it sort of is what it is.

Sean Hunter 42:17
Yeah, that's all it is, man. It's all it is, is just having the right tools and the right mindset to go out and make things work happy.

Scott Benner 42:24
How long have you been married? You said you're a married you seem as although I was married when I was 26? When you said I was too young, but go ahead.

Sean Hunter 42:34
So I've been married for going on three years or four years now. Yeah, four years. We got married in 2016. October 2016. So what's that? What's that? Make me 22? I'm about as good as you at now.

Scott Benner 42:50
Yeah, I don't know if you asked me how old I was. When I got married. Or when I had my children. I have no idea even though the years. I know, like I know when my son's born. But if you ask me how old I was, when he was born, I don't know. And that's even more ridiculous because he was born in 2000. So the math is really simple. And I can't come up with it off the top of my head. But that's neither here nor there. So did you guys know each other a long time?

Sean Hunter 43:16
Yeah, we actually met in college. She's from North North Jersey in Warren County. But we met in college. She was actually my ra my sophomore year of college.

Scott Benner 43:26
I see Sean, he started out trying to get a decent room and then went better. I say I love listen. Interesting. She was from North Jersey when she got to South Jersey. She probably thought she was in Pennsylvania right because people from North Jersey think that think that like Princeton is South Jersey?

Sean Hunter 43:44
Yes Yeah, she's definitely It was definitely a culture shock at first when she moved down here with me

Scott Benner 43:48
it's a very interesting thing so New Jersey sort of split into these three knits North Central and South people in South Jersey think the Trenton area where the capitalist for example they think of that is north but that central the people and the only the people around Trenton understand that there's a north in the south because the people up north by the city just think that by the time you get to Trenton that's the bottom of New Jersey. Right. It's It's interesting how we don't understand the state of

Sean Hunter 44:16
weird though, and there's a lot of different things going on around here.

Scott Benner 44:19
Yeah, well, once you get far enough south, it feels like you're in Philly. Honestly, it feels like you're in a suburb of Philadelphia. Like do you feel like you live in Philadelphia Moreover, or is that taboo to say down there?

Sean Hunter 44:32
Now we're more suburban like you said we're you know, little neighborhood nice little house so it's not really that really city like but we definitely I mean, we're like 20 minutes from Philly so

Scott Benner 44:45
right. Just Just tell everybody for a second not to get off track too far. But explain the joy when the Eagles won the Super Bowl. Wasn't that was great. It's just amazing.

Sean Hunter 44:54
Yeah, it was awesome.

Scott Benner 44:55
I never thought I was gonna say it. I thought for sure I would die before it happened. And and It was I just remember sitting in my house for the last 20 minutes of the game thinking like, I think they could win. It's such a strange thing to have no hope ever to grow up with no hope around sports

Sean Hunter 45:14
that in the Phillies in a way, I was more excited about that.

Scott Benner 45:18
I was so thrilled I my son was still kind of young. And if I remember correctly, there was some weather that pushed the game, the last World Series game a day or two. And we were down to like carving pumpkins for Halloween while the game was being played. And I remember Cole being in the kitchen, a little kid carving it, excuse me. A little kid carbon is pumpkin. And I just was like, come out here like you have to watch this. And and he's like, what? Like, it's baseball. I'm like, no, no. And I even remember even though he was that young, he was eight years old. I said the last time the Phillies won the World Series. A, my dad was alive and he's dead now. So I'm going to be dead the next time this happens to stand here. And then of course, the next year, they're back in the World Series. And he's like, I thought you told me this was never gonna happen again, you idiot. But, uh, that was a great baseball team there for for a number of years. So have you heard Sam on the show? Sam's a coach. Oh, yeah.

Sean Hunter 46:20
Yeah, I actually listened to both of his episodes. Okay, cool.

Scott Benner 46:23
Yeah, he's a, he's terrific. And I love that he's in Philadelphia. I was so happy when that felt so random to me when he left the A's and then suddenly was coaching. in Philly. I thought, Oh, this is terrific. You know? It's cool. Yeah. So okay, so you've got this job. The shift work I want to get into for a second, but I have to clear my throat. I apologize. I think it's just like a little Corona back there or something. I'm not sure exactly. But you shouldn't joke about that. shift work. Now, when my buddy was young, they had shifts that you would probably think was crazy. He'd work 5772 threes. The early cut, the early guy was six to two. And then there were three, two elevens, the early guy was two to 10 and then 11 to seven and then there was always an early guy so there was always this one guy that came in an hour before the shift started left an hour before the keep this overlap going. So there's always a car on the street while people are switching over that kind of feeling. But they would work them five on three off five on three off and they would they would I don't know how he did it. Like I there were times I thought it was gonna kill him. He said he'd come out of a midnight into a 303 211. And fella he lost two weeks of his life. And it but you're but you're doing. You're doing 12 hours for how many days in a row.

Sean Hunter 47:53
So we work a Pitman schedule. So I work Monday and Tuesday, and then I'll work all weekend. So I'll work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then it just flips that next week. So after I work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'll be off Monday, Tuesday, work Wednesday and Thursday and then all Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Scott Benner 48:14
Okay, so there's these two days, the keep moving forward on the counter you have off Monday. You'll have off like Wednesday, Thursday, then Monday, Tuesday, Friday, sad like that kind of a thing. But you're always working live.

Sean Hunter 48:26
Yep. So it's easier to think about it. We just we basically we have every other Friday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off every other good schedule. I like it,

Scott Benner 48:36
it is but now how does your management change? Or does it daytime to nighttime days off? How do you do it? Do you find yourself changing basal rates or anything like that.

Sean Hunter 48:47
The only thing that I find is I may have to back my bazel down on a network because I kind of jacked my bazel up I have my babies will setting kind of jacked up at night when I sleep because I tend to rise when I sleep. Um so I kind of use the technique that you've talked about is like the to two hours before I see the rise I've kind of jacked my bazel up and it's helped level out my sugar overnight while I'm sleeping. But But with that jacked up basal rate I kind of just kind of Temp Basal while I'm at work at night. I know I can set up different bazel patterns on the pod, but I think that's more complicated than my brain can handle. You know what I mean? Trying to switch Sorry, guys,

Scott Benner 49:38
no, no, I feel like you could do it but but I think you would need three different three different programs you would need. You'd need a day off, you need your day off program. You'd need a night night work program in a day work program. I would think I would think there's a way to do that. And then you have to just go go into your settings and change from days to nights. But anyway, you're doing great. It's not like you need it. But if it makes it easier for you on day,

Sean Hunter 50:08
yeah, it's definitely just been easier to kind of Temp Basal as I need it, you know, or if I see, if I see a change, you know, looking at my graph, I can just kind of temp it and then deal with it.

Scott Benner 50:19
So now do you ride with someone? Or are you in a single

Sean Hunter 50:23
now, so where we ride solo? Our Town is kind of small enough, where we have a two guy minimum for the street. We work squads of three guys. So a supervisor in two patrolmen. We, like I said, we ride solo, it's easier to cover more area, we have a four square mile town, which is small, but we are still pretty busy with calls for service. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:51
I was wondering about the guys that you work with? Do you? Have you told each and every one of them? Do you tell each one of them? Or do they just know on their own? Or is it private? Like, how do you handle being diabetic in a setting like that?

Sean Hunter 51:06
So everyone knows. I don't if I'm not mistaken, I don't think it has has to come up really on like a hiring process. I think it I think it's a something that should come up in a job like, like a police officer, you know, it's more demanding than like a desk job, you know, something like that. But like I said, everyone knows, the gods that I work with, know, they're not super knowledgeable on like, what to do in different situations. They kind of know. I'm like, they know what my alarms go off. They look at me like you are, right.

Scott Benner 51:45
Guys are great, aren't they? Just guys, I don't know. Women will never really be able to appreciate this. But when you just get a bunch of guys together. I'm sure you work with females too. But guys are just like, y'all right now. Yeah. All right, good. And then it's sort of like, I wish you knew how little we thought about things. Generally speaking. I get the vibe, but you're saying they check on you a little bit. And that doesn't get old for you like it feels brotherly, I guess?

Sean Hunter 52:12
Yeah, I don't, I don't mind it. I've always been really open about my diabetes. And I really don't care that I have it. It's up sometimes. But, um, it's a part of me. So I think that, you know, people should know that I have it and how to deal with it. You know, especially with being on the SWAT team. I talk to those guys about it. We have a medic on the team who's just specifically assigned to have medical interventions and we need it and I you know, I gave him some glucose Joe and told him like, Hey, listen, if I go down you know, if I pass out or something look at my look at my phone if my numbers right, give me some some glucose, you know, but that's really the

Scott Benner 52:54
extent of it.

Sean Hunter 52:55
Yeah, the extent of knowledge that they really need to know about it.

Scott Benner 52:59
Your is your SWAT team, like my buddies is it made up of guys from a lot of neighboring towns, and when something happens, you all come together?

Sean Hunter 53:07
Yeah, we have about five or six different towns that are on the team. We're like 20 to 22 guys.

Scott Benner 53:15
And then you support all the team supports all those towns in the the the situation where it's needed, how often do you get called for that,

Sean Hunter 53:24
um, kind of few and far between for call outs, especially now, you know, the, the virus and everything that's going around. So we'll get called out every once in a while for like a barricaded subject or, you know, emotionally disturbed person, something like that, where people are barricaded in a house, and we're, you know, obviously the people who are more well trained for those situations. But we also do search warrants, like narcotic search warrants, and high tech crime search warrants, like different stuff like that we do those more, more than we get called out for situations.

Scott Benner 54:04
How has COVID-19 changed how you do your job?

Sean Hunter 54:10
Yes, so we've, I don't know if it's for the better or not, but we've definitely changed the way that we do things. We're handling a lot more calls over the phone. So like, whereas before somebody would call calling like a theft complaint or something like that they're reporting something stolen, we would go out to their house and talk to them and you know, get all their information meishan then do the report. Whereas now we're, you know, handling that call over the phone. So we don't have contact with people.

Scott Benner 54:42
It's gonna be an app one day.

Sean Hunter 54:44
Yeah, I mean, there's there's actually a lot of police departments that are doing it now where you can report like non violent crimes or you know, property crimes on their, their website, you can just go on, put in the information for your report, and then it'll be investigated. The police departments, they're probably really

Scott Benner 55:03
work on the street, they'll just do. Like they'll do crime. digitally. That's really that makes sense, though. I mean, honestly, it's the population explodes. You can't be everywhere constantly, right? I mean, it's just, it just makes sense. And the limiting contact is limiting contact, but but in a, in a real situation. Okay, listen, I know, there's they've probably given you, I don't want to get you in trouble, they've probably given you rules about how to handle yourself. But the fact of the matter is that if something goes down, out of nowhere quick, you're not going to stop to cover your face before you go do your job, right? Like, you're gonna end up doing what you're going to do. I don't see how in some lines of work, that's, you don't mean like, hold on a second, I'm sorry, that guy's hitting you. Let me just get my face mask on before I come over there and help. Like, that's not going to be the case? Do you find yourself somewhere between reality and what a perfect situation would call for?

Sean Hunter 56:06
Yeah, so we actually have a response protocol or continuum that we have, that our command staff put on to us. And that, you know, there's always that, that section that says, If you know, everything in this, you know, policy or whatever is subject to, you know, situations. So if there is a situation like you're explaining where it is, or emergent, like we're pulling up in, someone's getting beat up or something like that, we're not going to take into account the time to put a face mask on or put our personal protective equipment on, you know, we have to go address the situation. And then once everything is calmed down, then we'll go back and we'll put our mask on, and we'll deal with that, you know, but we have a, we have a job to do we have a duty to protect people. And that's what I'm going to do, I'm not going to worry about, you know, there's no time it takes to put that mask on.

Scott Benner 57:01
How do you personally think of COVID-19 in relationship to you having type one are you going with? I mean, I'm sure you're you're being careful as you can, but are you going with I'm healthy, my blood sugar's are stable, they're in a good range, I'm probably no more risk than someone else, or do you have concerns?

Sean Hunter 57:23
I wouldn't say I have a lot of concerns I, I kind of and like you said, I'm, I'm pretty healthy. I think my immune system is pretty good, you know, minus the fact that I have diabetes, but I wouldn't say I'm too concerned about contracting it. And I think if I did contract it, I think I would, you know, I would be okay, fighting it off, you know, or having my body deal with it?

Scott Benner 57:49
Well, as my friend Vicki said, to me, your immune system is pretty toxic, kick the shit out of your pancreas. So it's, it's a very strange situation to be in, though, honestly, you know, you're you're looking and it makes sense, what I'm hearing, I don't disagree with like, I cover my face, when I go out, I don't think I'm sick. But if I am, I don't want to make someone else sick during this time, you know, or wherever, if I can help it. And at the same point, you know, we have to be a little realistic, that you know, moving forward, we're not all going to live inside of our homes for the rest of our lives. It's just not what's going to be, I really hope we get to a point where we protect people who are at risk. And you know, and everyone else sort of gets to go back and do what they're going to do. But yeah, I mean, you're just in a unique situation. You really are. Yeah, I've seen I've seen it happen. Fire calls and rescue calls. I've seen it happen with police officers, there's a moment where you have to make a decision and you can't always do everything, you can always open up the book and follow the steps. Sometimes it has to be, you know, like you said, this is emergent, we needed to act right now. There's a story the other day about a a very, um, you know, dedicated nurse who had a, I forget where it happened, but she had a patient who was in trouble and she ran into the room and it ended up killing the nurse. Like she died a couple of weeks later from Corona. And but she didn't they say she didn't stop. She knew she wasn't unaware of what she was doing. But she felt a calling to help these people. It's what her job was, and she did it. And that's what it called for in the moment. I'm assuming that's how police officers feel as well.

Sean Hunter 59:26
Yeah, there's a like I said, there's a there's a calling like you said, No, we have a purpose. World everyone has a purpose. And you know, my purpose is to go out and help people and make a difference, or at least try and make a difference. And that's what I that's what I do every day I strap on the uniform and strap the vest on I go out and try to fulfill that purpose and make a difference in someone's world.

Scott Benner 59:47
Good dude, man. Like it's a special person who's willing to to take a job like that I think of you know, it's it's really strange because, you know, over the last number of years, you'll hear stories worries about, you know, cops who aren't doing things the right way or, you know, violating people's civil liberties in a way that I think everyone can look at and think that's not okay. I don't want that to be happening. But I always get afraid of just like with everything else, you don't hear enough stories about all the people are just out there doing it, you know, and doing a good job and doing it for the right reason. It's the internet or the news, you know, you hear about the bad stuff, not the good. It's nobody, nobody takes five minutes to click through a picture to find out about, you know, a police officer who stopped in, you know, got a cat out of a tree or helped a woman across the street, not to use a bunch of old, you know, tired ideas, but you don't mean like, just to do the regular everyday things that people need. It's a kindness, and it's their job. And we never hear about that, you know, right. It's, it sucks. It really is. It's terrible, to have bad apples be able to ruin the whole barrel. But, you know, especially when you're out there working so hard and doing such a good job. So I really appreciate what you're doing. And I'm sure everyone else does as well, especially with your circumstances. But moreover, Shawn, I'm really thrilled with how far you've come with your type one and what is basically like six or seven months. That's it? Yeah,

Sean Hunter 1:01:11
I definitely feel better. And I appreciate, you know, you put in the info out there, you've definitely helped me because I, I've known a lot of these things, you know, whether it's Pre-Bolus saying or, you know, using a little bit less insulin if my sugars high and trying to make it come down a little bit more gradually than, you know, then plummeting, you know, I'm getting my basal rates, right. I've known all these things, but kind of hearing it from somebody else and hearing from a podcast, you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts is you know, it's definitely helped. And it's definitely pushed me to to make a change.

Scott Benner 1:01:45
I'm thrilled for you. I really wish I understood, I think I you know, in a broad way, have the idea of what it's like, but I still don't like when people like you say what you just said like I knew a lot of this I just didn't do it. Do you have a feeling for what it was about hearing it through a podcast that made you go I'm gonna try this do you think you were just ready? Or did it flip a switch? Do you have any idea even you might not even know,

Sean Hunter 1:02:12
man, I don't really know what like you said I could just be I was ready to do it, you know, kind of just ready to take take them not the risk, but you know, take the risk and just say Screw it, I'm gonna I'm gonna mess with my basal rates. Now I'm gonna do the stuff and see if it works. And you know, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, then I'll just change it. I don't know if you've ever heard of Jocko Willink in his podcast, but he talks about having, you know, being disciplined in your life. And this is how discipline equals freedom and I try to live that way in my personal life and my work life and be disciplined in the things I do. But I wasn't really being too disciplined with my diabetes, I was kind of letting that go to the wayside. So I think it was just me realizing it was time to take control of the diabetes and you know, be in control of everything in my life rather than just letting one thing go

Scott Benner 1:03:07
on. Like, I've got all these other things in line, why am I Why the hell am I ignoring this one thing that's got such impact over you know, everything about me really, like you could be as good at your job or as good at being married or you know, whatever else you're going to be at, but your blood sugar's are bouncing all over the place and you feel like hell and you're hurting your long term health, like what's the point of the rest of it? Like that's got to be first. Right? So and Jacko tacos the the military guy, right? Was he a seal?

Sean Hunter 1:03:34
is a retired Navy SEAL? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:03:35
is he the guy that puts like the time he gets up in the morning on his Instagram every day. It's like someone godly early time is that the person

Sean Hunter 1:03:43
he takes a picture of his watch, everyone gets up at 430 and works out.

Scott Benner 1:03:46
God bless him, he deserves to be in good shape. If he's up at 430. I try to wake up at 430 and there's gonna be a noise from my knee and my ankle in my lower back. That's like, Brother, you better lay back down. But, but I guess I'd be better off if I was up working out. But let's not. Let's not do too much. So I think what I've learned here is that it's just like when I'm talking to people privately, and you'll talk for like 45 minutes, and sometimes you end up laying, I'll end up laying things out. And I can tell it's the first time they've ever heard them. But in the end, whether it's the first time they've ever heard them, or it's the 50th time and they're finally going to listen, a lot of the times I feel like my role in that moment is just, it's a pat on the bud. It's like you could do this, move your bazel and see what happens. Try this and see what happens. You know, I mean, like I think sometimes people just need a voice to say to them, what's the worst that can happen? Like you're only moving at point one like I said to someone we were doing a zoom the other day and I the lady's like can I move my kids bazel from you know where it is to this? And I was like, Look, I don't know like for certain I can't tell you I'm like but what I can tell you is the kid weighs 40 pounds and you're asking me about moving is bazel point oh five. I'm not a doctor, but always that's gonna kill anybody. Like give it a shot and see what happens. You know, and I said it if it's blood sugar starts going down, put it back. But you don't you know, you're not you don't have to stand there and watch it. It's it's, there's no rules like, Oh, you move it, you got to leave it there. So that's, that's really excellent. And I good for you. I think that's wonderful. I'm gonna, I'm going to say thank you and let you go. And then I just I want to tell you one more thing privately. So if you don't mind, can you hold on one second? Yeah, absolutely. So I appreciate you doing this. Thank you so much. Hey, huge thanks to Sean for wanting to be on the show, share his story, and give encouragement to younger people who'd like to be of service to others. And thanks to Dexcom, makers of the G six continuous glucose monitor You can learn more about it@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box and of course the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump and it's free. No Obligation demo offer can be found at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Don't forget to head over to touch by type one.org on Saturday 7pm. Eastern Time, check out that dancing for diabetes program. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.