Scott Benner 8/17/23 Scott Benner 8/17/23

#978 Diabetes Myths: Dos and Don'ts

A brand new series examining the myths surrounding diabetes.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 973 of the Juicebox Podcast

just like that Jenny's back, and we're gonna do another diabetes myth today, today's myth is that there's a cure and they're hiding it. They, whoever they are, are hiding the cure from you. They have it, but they won't let you see it. We're gonna talk about that today. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Save 40% off your entire order at cosy earth.com and use the offer code juicebox. Get a free year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order at drink ag one.com forward slash juicebox and please don't forget to use the links for on the pod decks comm us med all the sponsors. They're right there in the show notes of your podcast player and at juicebox podcast.com. Jenny Smith works at Integrated diabetes and you can hire her at integrated diabetes.com Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes doesn't matter if you have type one, type two Lada doesn't matter how you eat, everyone is welcome. Great conversations happening right now. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, and I'm about to speak at the next live touched by type one event. Sometime during this episode. I'm gonna give you all the details about that free event that's coming up soon in September of 2023. Come out and see me while you touched by type one.org. Okay, we are recording. Alright, Jenny, we are back to do another diabetes myth. And because yeah, you and I were just chit chatting. I don't have the document open. So just give me a second here to open that up. And let's see what we have done so far. A lot. We have done. We have we're getting through it. We're doing we're doing well. We did last week we did. The big one was that there are no diet restrict or excuse me that diet type ones have a specific diet restriction. And we talked all through that. So then we did complications are inevitable that blood sugars don't alter how you think. So today? Oh, you're ready to be snarky. Huh, good. I think we're gonna have to be a little snarky during this one. Okay. That there is a cure for diabetes, and it's being hidden from us.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:55
Oh, yeah. So that's such a hard one. Yes, honestly. And I don't I mean, it's, it's like a deep, dark, scary rabbit hole. If you're going to go down and talk about that. I mean, we know what we know. What I find astounding, personally, and kind of professionally or clinically, is that there are really cool things that come out, right? Like if this proved to be beneficial, yes, rats, or whatever they're studying it in. But we're planning to move into human trials. And you never end up hearing about those. And where did where did this product go to? Or where did this, you know, procedure? Where did it end up? Why is it not going any further. And there may be a very good reason that it never went to human trial that it never went any further and thus we never hear about it again. Right? But I think that's where maybe the myth comes from is, you hear something here like, wow, that's gonna be awesome. And then five years later, it's gone. It's a poof, gone. Where did the person disappear to?

Scott Benner 4:11
So what it reminds me of, and so I listen, I'll just say right now. That's it. That's a conspiracy theory. Right? Like, that's genuinely what that is and letter of the law. None of us know for sure. Maybe there are five really wealthy people who have been cured of their type one diabetes, we wouldn't know about it if that had happened. But it seems unlikely to me. But I think it gets perpetuated. First of all, because I think people's minds, like thinking about conspiracy stuff. I think it's kind of fun, right? But there's that story. I think everyone's heard a version of a story like this growing up. The one that was told to me was that, you know, decades ago, a guy invented a light bulb that never burned out. And he was super excited. And so he took it to a big probably General Electric or something like that went into a meeting. I had all this stuff, they're here with my light bulb samples, here's my, my work all my notes. I've made a light bulb that won't burn out. And they said, thank you very much, wrote him a check, took all this stuff and lit it on fire in front of him. Right, right. So that's the story that they told. And it's a, I don't know if it's a real story, or if it's a wives tale, but it's the idea of like, why would the company make light bulbs that don't burn out, they sell, they sell light bulbs, they want to keep making light bulbs. And then that's what happens around this. Why would a pharma company, you know, put themselves out of business, they're selling insulin. But here's the here's the thing, though, the people who sell the insulin, they're not the people who are looking for ways to cure diseases. That's not That's not the job's not the business they're in. Right, right. Now, somebody's gonna say, Okay, well, yeah, but they pay it off people and they're doing I don't know if that's happening or not. Let's be honest, that nobody knows for sure. But the way I always end up thinking about it is is that I don't know, when large amounts of people are involved in the conspiracy. It's difficult to keep it quiet. Like, you know what I mean? Like, do you think if there was a way to think about it? Yeah. Like, if there was really a cure for diabetes? Someone wouldn't whistleblow that. You know what I mean? Like, it would just take one guy with type one to know that to be like, Yo, and then I don't know.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:24
No, I yeah, I, I can see both sides. Yeah, I really can see both sides, I can see the standpoint of, as you said, the person or the business side of it selling, not really having any idea what's going on in the research side, they're just selling a product. I mean, it is a business, right? Well, whether it's technology or a medication or whatever, it's a business, sell the medication, right, get more users of this brand of insulin versus that brand of insulin, right. And I don't think any company wants to put themselves out of business. But that doesn't mean that they're going behind the scenes necessarily, and preventing research that could prove to many, many people an increase in quality of life from not having to manage like we do

Scott Benner 7:22
so. So oil companies aren't trying to figure out how to make electric cars, for example, but that doesn't mean that they're falsely propping up the gasoline industry. They're just that's not where they're putting their efforts. So that's the one thing so you know, people said, Hey, there's a secret cure, and Big Pharma doesn't want you to know about it. This is the thing that comes up so frequently online, like people, there are a number of people who are ultra sure that this is being kept from, it's why I put it in here, and I brought it up. Now, the next person says that it's even a myth that they're even working on a cure. And they say they again, like who the hell help, as you know,

Unknown Speaker 8:03
they right.

Scott Benner 8:04
But there are plenty of researchers out there working on cures for all kinds of things. Do they think they're going to come up with one? I don't know. I really don't know. Maybe they're just dorky lab, people who are going to make a living off of working on stuff for a lifetime. And maybe they literally think they're gonna get to it and etc. But it's happening. I've actually spoken to the people who are doing it like there are people working on it. I don't know that that means they're gonna figure it out. Right. And so I think that where that kind of comes like to ahead is the thing that almost everybody has been told, right. And I mean, I'm sure somebody said it to you and you were diagnosed, they said it to me when Arden was diagnosed, don't worry, a cure is like five years away. Touched by type one is a longtime sponsor of the Juicebox Podcast. And they are the people who gave me my very first chance to speak live to people living with diabetes. And I'm back at their event again, this year. Now go to touched by type one.org. Click on programs, then go to annual conference. And you're going to see that our free conference for individuals of all ages and backgrounds is coming up on September 16 2023. And the registration is open. The button is here and you can click it click on it. Click. I did it. It's free. What'd I just say? Registration is free. The entire day is free. I think they even feed you touched by type one.org. And I'm going to be there giving my talk he talks and guess who else I hear is going to be there. A little bird told me Jenny Smith is going to be there and know what is this? Jenny and Scott in Orlando on September 16 2023 for free. Are you kidding me? What are you people doing still listen been touched by type one.org. Get over there. It can it fill up? I think it could you know what I'm saying? Like don't wait. Yes. Do we know where that number came from?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:15
That's, I have. I've looked, honestly, I've looked where did it because when I was diagnosed, so many years ago, it was five to seven. That's what they're saying. That was the consistent thing that I heard all the way up until the point that I left for college. I heard five to seven years, five to seven years. So where did this random like? And where's their research? Like? Where are they getting it from? to actually pull a number like five to seven years? We're going to have a cure? I don't know. Yeah, they pulled it out of the atmosphere is? That's my honest belief. So

Scott Benner 10:55
my, my expectation is, it's an amalgam of things. So at some time, somebody must have said, well, there's this thing we're working on. And when we get over this last problem, it'll take us about five more years to get it out to the general public, right? And then someone hears that and goes, Oh, it's five years away. Correct. And then it's whisper down the lane. And then before you know it, you're in a room with a nurse who has been a nurse for two weeks, and she wants to be comforting to you, I guess it could be He, they want to be comforting to you. And they say a thing. This is where I think this comes from, I think it's meant to be comforting. That's really what I think, you know, yes. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:33
absolutely. No, that's a very valid point. I think that's also what my, what my doctor, when I was first diagnosed, was probably trying to comfort my parents. And, you know, I was old enough at that point, to also have an understanding of what life with diabetes was going to look like and was in, you know, what I had to do. And so maybe it was also for my earshot, to hear something that was good. Like, you're not going to have to deal with this forever, just hunker down, and do what we're telling you do for a little bit of time. And then you'll get here, right?

Scott Benner 12:11
And then five years from now will tell you just it's probably just five more years like that. Yeah. Now the unintended, like significant health consequence of telling a person that this thing they were just diagnosed with, is going to go away in five years. Do you? Are you thinking the same thing? I'm thinking it's people then don't take care of themselves? Because they think it's temporary?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:32
Could be Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the reason that when I heard that, from the beginning, I never really, I never took that, despite it coming from a clinician in a white coat in a very professional, you know, office space, my age, I just didn't take it for anything. I was like, I hear this great, whatever. But mom and dad are taking all the education that they were putting in, you know, to effect and teaching me how to use it incorporate into my life. And that was, that was what I did. The idea of something that was so unknown in what it could potentially be five to seven years from now. I don't think I even really considered that it was just do this, do this. And it means that I can do the other things in life that I've always been doing, and that I always want to do. But I think you're right. If somebody hears that in just a short time, maybe I don't have to really pay attention, because eventually, something's going to take care of this for me. So I just have to make it through enough.

Scott Benner 13:41
I've heard that from a number of people I've interviewed, it's one of the sadder things like Oh, it got away from me because I thought it wasn't going to be forever and then my health got worse and that and I didn't know really how to take care of it. So it all snowballed from there. Listen, generally speaking, I think people would think of me as cynical. I'm not cynical, I think of myself as realistic. Except this got the better of me when art was first diagnosed. So in a normal situation, if you told me don't worry, people are going to come up with a matte like they're going to, like, make a thing on the Earth that doesn't exist anymore, I'd say probably not. You know, like, as a species, we're not running around, inventing things constantly and making diseases go away. I wouldn't believe that. But when Arlen was diagnosed, and she was just a baby, the first time I saw one of those, those online things about a mice, you know, we cured a mouse and we're gonna move to human trials. We just have to fundraise a little bit like you know, it made it sound like they were just a check away from it happening. I went to my wife and another room, I was crying. Like I said, I said to her, how lucky are we that Arden was diagnosed with type one diabetes just a year before it was going to be cured? And that's actually how it felt. And so I for years, I go online around that time of year when everybody's out fundraising and I remind people this is just just this is them doing business, they're trying to make money to keep their lab going. They are not almost to a cure.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:06
Right, which is, I think it's fair and very important, to be honest about that, to be honest about we are fundraising for the company is the labs that are actually doing the work. We don't know how far they are in their work, but we have to continue their work. So your donations, your fundraising, will allow them to keep moving further in their research. But it doesn't mean that anything is right around the corner. No. And I think that's the hard thing. That's the hard thing to swallow, when you may be writing a cheque that you think is going to further it by leaps and bounds or sooner,

Scott Benner 15:48
yeah, plus, you have to make a decision about where to send that money, because and all those people are involved in a sales, that's a sales job to them, but they don't say come up with an idea. They think if we can put enough money into this, and time and effort, we're gonna get to something, most of them are going to be wrong. Like most of them are going to get to the end of their research and go up that didn't work. This didn't work or something else is going to come out of it. I think it's it's funny, though, because as I looked through people's comments, you know, 10 years ago, somebody told me 10 years, that was an 87, this person says 63 years, I've had type one diabetes, and people have been telling me since I was a teenager, it's gonna go away. Right? But where I get like, kind of sad, is that this person writes that a curious five years away, please stop blowing smoke up my ass, right? And you think, Okay, this is a person in line with what you and I are talking about. But then the rest of what they say My husband used to say there's no money in a cure. And I think that's how people feel. I don't honestly think that's right, though. I think if you could cure type one diabetes, there's money to be had. And, and my example will be prevention bio. Came up with tz yield, right? Yes. Which just is at this point, they just think it slows the onset of type one diabetes, right? By a fair amount? Yeah, no, no, it's exciting. But that's not my point. My point is that prevention BIOS sold themselves to Sanofi diabetes for $3 billion. That's money it like, I don't know, I don't have a billion dollars. So like, so there is money in that kind of stuff. Right? You know what I mean? Like it's, and I that's, I think,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:29
the point that you're also making is that it's not a fault of the company to further what they're trying to do and who they're trying to reach, there is still there's a goodness component there to what they're trying to do. And just because they sold and made money on it from a business side, they also sold to a much larger company that could potentially potentially propel it forward with much more strength than the small little company could potentially do

Scott Benner 18:00
those people, we're never going to be able to move it like that. Yeah, it's you need big entities that have the pockets to say, let's take a shot at this and see what we can do a company that if it doesn't go right, isn't going to fold for the $3 billion that they spent, which is crazy, right? But which

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:15
then folds everything that they have worked to put together thus

Scott Benner 18:19
far. They also make insulin and other things. And I think similarly, in that vein, like, Listen, I'm, I'm not a cheerleader for the JDRF one way or the other. But when they started saying, you know that they were focusing on supporting people with diabetes, and helping them be healthy. I thought that was terrific. But that was met with a lot of backlash from people who were like, No, you promised a cure. Right? Like and that and they said, look, I mean, we're gonna start putting money into other things. And that made people upset, but some of the money they put into it led to some of these algorithms and to see GMs and great, not on this curse, but a lot of good stuff. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:58
absolutely. Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. I mean, in terms of fundraising, fundraising, can go many different avenues, right, it can go for more money to a particular scientists doing something that's really proving to be valuable thus far, and some of the money might go to support programs that bring families together so that you get to know other people who have diabetes, as well. And some of the money might go to, you know, underserved in a way that gives them more education and gives them more opportunity to understand and live well. So you have to look at the broad scope of where donations may go is not all going in one direction, nor do I think it should.

Scott Benner 19:44
But I just listen I personally believe that you know, I hear people sometimes complain about like, oh, the CEO of this company, they give you seen how much money they make, and I'm like that's, that's the person you want in charge of this. Like a person who wants to make money knows how to make The Business powerful so that it can make money like you want what the good that comes from that, that, you know, in health, but you can't have like some, like, you know, some lady smelling like petroleum oil can't, it might isn't going to make the whole thing happy. She was like, I want everybody to have everything for free. That's great. We got to build an infrastructure, we gotta hire people, we need to sell something so we can afford to keep the lights on like that all has to happen to right. But you know, back to the idea of the cure thing. And I get it. Like I get when people say that I get when people speak the way I talk, I'm not like, I'm not defending it one way or the other. I started off by saying, that wouldn't surprise me if there were aliens in a bunker somewhere. And that fiber optics were from something we learned from a spaceship and that Bigfoot didn't exist in Canada and etc, and so on. Like, if you showed me that stuff, I'd be like, ah, that's crazy. But yeah, okay. Yeah, I totally get it. Right. Yeah. And by the way, if those things don't exist, I get I get the flux that we're in here. But right, my bigger point, I think, is that for your overall health and happiness, whether it's true one way or the other, it's not healthy for you to sit around angry thinking, someone's keeping this from me. Because if they are, you're not getting it anyway. And if they're not, you're just worried about something, you're

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:20
worried about something. And I, you know, I think the first time I can remember, like in my life, or my history with diabetes, of thinking down this conspiracy Avenue, was when I went to a, it was like a science based presentation. The JDRF had a group that provided new new technology information and what could be coming down the pipeline. It also had new scientific, like exploration into not necessarily cures, but more therapeutic kinds of things. And there was a scientist who came, and he presented on something that I think it was called smart insulin. And he, his presentation was phenomenal. To me, it was the idea of taking like an injection of Day of one kind of insulin that based on almost like a almost like a thermometer gauge in your body, the insulin would turn on at a certain level of glucose saturation. And it would turn off its effect based on a lower level of glucose in in the body, right? And it my first consideration to where did this go, because he had really good research. And then a year out, I went back and I remembered the presentation, I looked up information and like, where's the Cisco? Like, it's gone, like, go thinking, well, either somebody like stomped on this, or it proved to not be beneficial. So they didn't get to go forward with it. But I don't know. Like, where did it go? Who knows? So that was my first thought into.

Scott Benner 23:05
But some of the people here are thinking, yeah, yeah, well, it showed some promise. And one of the big insulin manufacturers came in and bought it and set it on fire because they don't want that. Meanwhile, you could sell smart insulin the same way you would sell other right. But anyway, I all finished with this. nearly 15 years ago, I did an interview when I only had a blog with a company who was working on implanting cells in a pouch and the pouch would stop your immune system from getting to the cells and attacking it. They make this little insertion put the pouch under you and it would this thing would act like a like a pancreas. Right? And when I was interviewing them, I said, so I said, just pretend for a minute. We got it all figured out today, right today. When do we see this? And he's and he really thought and he goes have 15 years maybe? And I was like I'm like, Wait, not what I meant was all the science is done. It's good. When do people hold it in their hands? He goes, Yeah, about 15 years. And he's like, you know, manufacturing, procuring the cells he'd like we'd have to start places to, you know, make the cells like all this stuff. And by the way, that thing still exists. I interviewed somebody in a trial for that recently. It was a blind study. So she wasn't sure if she got like, they cut her open, they cut some people are gonna put fake pouches in them, right? Because that's how the studies were. But she's like, I had the cells, I was barely using any insulin a couple months into it. So so it was working. And now other companies are figuring out ways to do that. And like, I mean, one of the big ideas there, the problem was at first, like your immune system would come after the cells. So they actually made a mesh that your immune system kind of like couldn't see through. But the cells could work to get out. I mean, I don't know all the technical words, but But point is is that it takes So long as time. And so like, I don't,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 25:03
not to mention approval, I mean, you have a, you have to have enough data points of information to even submit for potential approval for something like this. I mean, you know, things like insulin pumps outside the body or one thing, something that you're actually having to be invasive and cut into somebody, which could potentially trigger a reaction that you don't know is coming from that individual, you're gonna you have to have enough research that says in, you know, 99.9% of people, it has no detrimental effect

Scott Benner 25:36
also, no, it's not a forever thing, you have to get opened up, and it has to come out and they have to replace it sometimes. So like, there's a lot there. But and it's funny at the time, I asked my daughter, what would you think of that? And she said, I wouldn't do that. And I was like, okay, she goes, I don't want to go to a doctor's office every six months and have an incision made to like, she's like, I don't think I would do that. The first I would agree with her. And the person who had it done said it was fantastic. So even like, can you imagine working for 25 years to come up with something, you bring it to market? And people go? No, no, thanks. Anyway, I don't know what's real and what's not. But what I think is that you don't do yourself any favors by torturing yourself about one way or the other. Correct. What I usually tell people is that when they asked me if I think there'll be a cure for diabetes, which is a question that oddly, I get asked a lot. I say, I don't think there will ever be a cure in my lifetime. But I live like, there. I live like there won't be I hope, like there will be. So I take care of my daughter as if this is what that what it is. This is what it is. Yeah. And but I don't ever lose hope of it. Like it wouldn't surprise me. You know, like if somebody figured something out eventually. But you know, in a world where, you know, people have inflammation and they have joint pain from inflammation, and we can't figure out how to stop that. Like, this seems like a much bigger problem to me. So Correct. Anyway, yeah. Appreciate you doing this with me.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:05
Of course, yes.

Scott Benner 27:11
Jennifer Smith works at integrated diabetes.com. Go check her out, will you won't you, won't you please. I don't even I don't even know what I meant to say there. And don't forget touched by type one.org. The big event is coming up on September 16. It is free for everyone who lives with or is touched by type one. Head over there now and get your spot. Go hit that Register Now button. Do not wait. It will fill up. It has amazing speakers at it. I mean, of course it's gonna fill up. Wait, do you see when we're all in a room together? How much fun is going to be touched by type one.org I'm going to ask you to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, go become a member get involved in the conversation. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. When you support the Juicebox Podcast by clicking on the advertisers links, you are helping to keep the show free and plentiful. I am certainly not asking you to buy something that you don't want. But if you're going to buy something, or use the device from one of the advertisers, getting your purchases set up through my links is incredibly helpful. So if you have the desire or the need, please consider using Juicebox Podcast links to make your purchases

#977 Looping Around

Tina's son has type 1 diabetes. Today we talk about loop and Omnipod 5.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 977 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's podcasts I'll be sorry my phone was muted. On today's podcast I'll be speaking with Tina. She's the mom of a young man living with type one diabetes. She is very involved in the looping community. We're going to talk about looping and Omni pod five today. While you're listening to us talk about that. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan for becoming bold with insulin. Check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes want to talk to some people who are looping or using Omnipod five or that new Medtronic 780 G I've been seeing a lot of posts for that lately, but also I see T slim libre Dexcom, anything you want to talk about? We talked about it in there. Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook, it's a private group with 40,000 members in it. I bet you there's a conversation happening right now that you would enjoy. I have a ton of episodes about algorithm pumping, go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu, click on algorithm pumping or in the private Facebook group, the feature tab, there's a whole list of episodes. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by cozy earth. Now, at cozy earth.com. When you make your purchase doesn't matter if you buy one thing or 50 things if it's $1 billion dollars. If you use the offer code juice box at checkout, you will save 40% off of your entire order. So just think of what 40% off a billion dollars worth of joggers would be. Now I put myself in a position where I have to figure out what 40% Of a billion is. Alright, so a billion. I mean, just in case one of you buys a billion dollars worth of sheets, towels and joggers, a billion divided by two, which would be half a billion or 500 million, right? Yeah. So then 400 You'd say $400 million off your billion dollar purchase with my offer code. That's incredible. Also, you'd say 40 cents off. $1 $40 off. 100 You know how percentages work? Anyway, that's what you get for listening to the podcast. 40% off at cozier when you use the offer code juice box at checkout. today's podcast is also sponsored by one of my favorites, US med us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888721151 for us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from and you can as well get your free benefits check today with my link or that special 888 number. It's just for Juicebox Podcast listeners. Us med.com forward slash juicebox or call 888-721-1514 Get your stuff the way we do from us med. First of all, let me turn it right on. If you're planning on crying, let's start recording right now.

Tina 3:16
It's been a it's been an emotional last couple of days.

Scott Benner 3:19
Okay, I cried. The episode that went up today. This this young girl, she's like 18, she was talking about how she she was trying to like, do some public speaking. Yeah, she set this thing up at her local library where she was going to talk about chronic illness and service dogs. And no one showed up. And she still gave the talk to the one person that helped her set the thing up from the library and she's telling me this, and I am Oh, that's hard. I'm like crying while she's telling me and I was on cold medicine at the time. So I'm like, I think this might be the cold medicine. I was like, but she really got me. I was like, wow, she did it anyway. You're starting to get me Yeah, you know, I mean, if I shut up and no one. Listen, you don't know. Like if I showed up and no one showed up. I'd be like, I gotta go.

Tina 4:08
I think it's even. I don't know. It's how awkward it is for the one person that's there.

Scott Benner 4:15
And they all did it, I thought was really cool. So anyway, you introduce yourself the way you want to be known meaning you don't need your last name. If you bring up other people in your life, I don't care as a matter of fact, I don't care what you talk about, like with all sincerity, you can talk about whatever you want. But just don't use someone's name and then an hour from now say Oh, I shouldn't have said like Patty's name be like like, you know, can you go back and take out the 17 times I mentioned my aunt or something like that. Like please just don't do that. But other than that, it's absolutely up to you what you talk about I don't care. Make sense. I'll try not to see names okay for call names. You can curse if you want. I'll just Yeah, yeah. All right. Go ahead, introduce yourself. We'll start We're talking, you are being recorded.

Tina 5:02
All right. Hey, I'm Tina. And I have a newly 13 year old son who was diagnosed on July of 2019. So he's getting getting ready to hit us four years, actually next week.

Scott Benner 5:16
Yeah. Wow. Was it right at the beginning of July? It was July the third. Did he get it for the centennial? For the, for July 4? Was it? Uh, he sure

Tina 5:26
did. It was on a Wednesday, Tuesday, Tuesday night, my husband and my husband Phil and I were talking about some problems he had been having, which included a lot of Bedwetting, that had just arisen in the last like four or five days. And we, we decided I would take him to the pediatrician that have it checked out, because actually, we have quite a quite a bit of history with older adults on our life with UTIs. And, you know, so the first thing that's kind of coming to my mind is like, maybe he has a UTI, but also I was like, Maybe it's his age, and he's he's starting to hit a growth spurt, you know, things like that. And so, so I said, I will take, you know, give it, give it a day, and see how tomorrow goes, and if, you know, if tomorrow doesn't things don't improve, then I'll take them in to the pediatrician on Thursday, and haven't checked for UTI. And my husband said, yeah, and have a sugar checked. And I literally, it's like, one of those, you know, memorable moments of life that I can't imagine, you know, I was just like, I can't even fathom that, that would be an issue for for him. But I said, Okay, I will get up in the morning, and I'm going to take him tomorrow morning, instead of waiting, because I realized that the next day was the fourth of July, and Friday, I was supposed to fly out to Chicago to see a friend. And so I actually wound up staying up for quite a while that night, like, check in and you know, just checking on him and also thinking, well, maybe I should call him into the ER. But then also, you know, no, no, it can't be because that's, that's not, you know, we don't have problems like that. What so the next morning, I got up and I took them to the to the pediatrician immediately. And they they had had us in there like by 830 and had him pee in a cup and brought a glucometer and checked his his blood sugar. And the the pediatrician put, you know, Reese's sitting up, and I don't think I introduced my son's name, his name is Rex. But he's sitting on the table. And she puts the glucometer down on the other side of him. And she walks out of the room. And I'm sitting on the bench, and I stood up and I looked at the glucometer. And it said 271. And it was literally like you see in a movie. I felt like this, like were you back up really fast and then slam into a wall, you know. And I made no reaction. I just sat down and waited. And she came back in. And actually before she came back in recessed Mom, why is there a blood sugar checker in here? And I said, Why do you know what that is? And he says, I saw it on Tim and maybe that's a little learning app that he has and enjoys. And I said well, the symptoms that you have are, you know, they're possibly symptoms of type one diabetes, and he immediately starts screaming, I want to have a normal functioning pancreas. And I'm just like, what? And he goes, and then he starts screaming, I don't want to die. I don't want to die, which got me you know, rip me apart. And so anyway, I you know, they they taught, came back in and said we so he has type one diabetes, and we have called the hospital and you need to go straight there and they will rush you back. They're expecting him and they will get you in immediately. And I and we were actually right across the street from the hospital. He was born in and I said do you mean the hospital right across the street? And she goes oh no, he needs to go to the big hospital with the Children's Hospital. You're gonna be there for several days and I'm like

Scott Benner 9:45
look questions. Why did your husband think to say blood sugar?

Tina 9:51
Oh, I really don't know. Um, but we have no diabetes in our family. We have no Actually no autoimmunity in our family in our big family, you know, and I just don't know. But I also felt kind of like an idiot because I have a medical background. And it didn't. That just wasn't the thing that I thought of either.

Scott Benner 10:17
And then the other question I have is that where does Ries come up with functioning pancreas at nine years old? Is it from an app? Or you don't know,

Tina 10:26
Reese's? A little bit on the precocious side, shall we say? He, he has a lot of knowledge. And he collects it about all kinds of different things. And he, yeah, he said, he just everything he sees on there, he pretty much can reference in the future. You know,

Scott Benner 10:51
I mean, that's upsetting for you. But I was impressed with all all that he knew. I mean, he was nine.

Tina 10:58
Yeah, he just turned nine. It's crazy. So I cancelled my trip to Chicago, and actually canceled my trip that was going to be a month later, I supposed to go down to Guatemala. And we got on ride.

Scott Benner 11:13
Chicago and Guatemala, your friends in Guatemala as well.

Tina 11:18
We have a group from our church who goes down? Well, it's not just a group. But different people go down and have been doing it for probably 12 or 15 years now built a library and have a lot of programs down in Guatemala in this certain village called palot. Up in the mountains, and like they've taught tilapia farming and pig farming, and you know how to how to manage business well, and then built a library stocked them with computers, taught them how to use them, we have we support students through scholarships, so we, and they have to pay for school from middle school through high school through college. So we've got students that we, we support doing that well. And they they take trips a couple times a year.

Scott Benner 12:09
Very nice. Okay. So is Reese. How was the in the hospital? I'm trying to, I'm trying to imagine him in the hospital with all of his, like, half knowledge that he has built up and what was going on? Like, how did that process go for him?

Tina 12:25
He was so just just worn out. And he had a lot of symptoms that of course, we attributed to other things. But he, he was shocked. He was not happy. He was not comfortable. But we had so such a good team in the hospital. And so many people came and saw us every day there were there were usually a lot of people in there with us. And I think he took it pretty well. He gave himself his first shot in the hospital. And they eventually let us go home.

Scott Benner 13:02
How about you? How did you take it?

Tina 13:05
Not as well, I was I was a mess. And normally I'm like our family's medical reference person, the person they call when they have anything they want to know what it is, you know, can you come check this out? And we're in the hospital and I'm asking my husband, can you can you talk to the doctor when he comes in? Because I don't have my words, you know, and I was just, I'm just devastated. And it it literally took me we were in there for three days. And it it took me till about the time we left to feel like we could that I could be okay to leave.

Scott Benner 13:41
Were you worried that you couldn't manage it? Or was it like a psychological like overwhelming? Or were what do you think you're?

Tina 13:50
Well, I had no people with type one pretty much all my life. Not many people, but I had a friend in school when I was in elementary, middle school. And then I had a really good friend who in college who had it and you know, I saw that they could live and thrive. And I don't know, I just was not prepared at all I knew it would be would alter our lives forever. And I wasn't prepared for that. And and it really took me a while to you know, to be accepting of it.

Scott Benner 14:25
Yeah. Where do we meet? I have a feeling that we speak privately. In the beginning we did write like by video, right? Like we spoke.

Tina 14:41
I had written something on on the Facebook page answer to something some I made a suggestion on somebody's post. And then you said you reached out and said hey Tina, can I call you? And I said sure. So I was actually at the emergency room with my mother and when You called and I stepped outside and we were talking where the where the ambulance pulls up. And you're like, if this isn't a good time, I'm like, this is a good time.

Scott Benner 15:11
I'm looking at not to be in the emergency room.

Tina 15:13
That was that was in was either September or October of 2019.

Scott Benner 15:18
Wow, it's such a long time ago. Okay. And the I guess I just want to lead into how you got to looping at first i So what's the technology and the understanding you leave with the hospital? And how long does it take you? And how does it then what's the path you take to learn about looping?

Tina 15:42
So this was this is part of maybe part of why it was so hard for me, um, is that my husband and I are both. I'm retired, shall I say, molecular biologists, and we deal with precision and accuracy. And, you know, these people in the hospital or hospital are telling you give him one unit for this many carbs. And if he goes below 70 Give him 15 grams, you know, that kind of thing? And I'm like, Okay, what if he's at 71? And they're like, nope. And like, what if what, you know, just questions like that. Yeah, question. Okay, what if this Nope, don't do it, then what can I do even 10 carbs? Nope, give them 15. And I'm just like, okay, and then at some point, I was like, I think back about it and I feel really kind of silly knowing what I knew now, but they didn't tell me any differently. They didn't tell me the why I guess I should say okay, but I was I would, I would say can you just tell us exactly how much for this or exactly how much for that and they're like No, you'll you'll figure it out and I'm like, but we just if we just know the exact number everything we can handle this and that may maybe it was part of it was like not being able to put your finger on it. You know

Scott Benner 17:14
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Isn't it interesting, right? There's so much information left out of that, like I understand the idea if you get low take 15 grams, because we don't want you to keep getting low and 15 should be enough. But then they don't talk about like what you just said like what if really 15 is not the answer. What is the answer? six grams? Or, you know, why can't I do something at a 75 blood sugar while it's falling? If I know it's gonna get lower, and it's because they're not there. And they don't know the they don't know any of the details of the pretend scenario you're imagining in the future. So they give you this sort of like, I don't know, like it's an emergency. It's an emergency like thing. It's like, yeah, in case of Baba, bah, pull this cord. But that's kind of how it feels.

Tina 21:56
Yeah, and they don't, they don't take into account that maybe he doesn't need as much insulin for this exact same thing as he needed yesterday. You know, they don't take it into account. And

Scott Benner 22:07
I just think like one more sentence, you know, like, but it might not always be like this, or you exactly. And just as the scenario dictates like this would be, it would be an amazing eye opener for people. And they wouldn't get stuck in these like this number, this happens if this situation that happens. And instead they'd be able to see what what's really big picture happening and make better decisions. And yet it's not talked about like that. And it should be I

Tina 22:42
actually at one point, I started, you know, briefly working on a program to present to them to them being my son's endocrinologist who he's the head of the system that that we're in. And I have to say, I love him. He's He's amazing, and very accommodating and supportive and everything. But he still, you know, he doesn't live with it. He doesn't live with it in his house. And but anyway, I was working on something to to maybe be, you know, the product of which to be something that they could give two new patients that said, this is where we're at now, you know, you're at step one. Now. When these things happen, we're going to teach you step two, when things happen there, we're going to teach you step three, you know, and then I don't know I got off that path.

Scott Benner 23:38
Yeah, you're done being mad about it, and you moved on to something else?

Tina 23:42
Well, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't come to fruition.

Scott Benner 23:44
Nobody was actually going to do anything with it. Yeah, yeah. No, no. Okay, so he's managing with syringes with pens. Do you get a CGM right away? Like how does all that work?

Tina 23:58
So they gave him pens, one unit pens, and we actually had two and his ratio was, I don't know, one to 25, something like that. And so we'd have to actually add carbs for every meal because we didn't want to take carbs away. We didn't want to say you can't eat as much as you're used to because you can't, you know, we you can't have the insulin for it or will give you too much insulin. So we found ourselves actually giving him more and more carbs to to make it so he could have one unit or two units. You know, it depends on what do you what he felt like. And then downstream, I finally asked the Endo, I said, Hey, I hear their half unit pens, how about you prescribe one of those for us? And he says I could do that, which really changed everything. And then so he was diagnosed in July, and we were offered Dexcom not in the hospital. It was discussed first and then like, he even like when we went back two days later to his office, he offered it to us. And we, you know, I was kind of like, trying to settle down trying to get a grip, you know? Yeah. And I delayed it a little bit, but I think he was on it. I think it was like an as two week appointment.

Scott Benner 25:20
Okay, we got on it. And that long ago. Is that G six? G six? Yeah. Right. So I see you jump in with a really good sensor. Already a G SIX sensors really good. So like, you didn't go chi five was like, they were still getting it? You don't I mean? So. Yeah, that's not bad. And, but only half unit, the need for half units still. So you said a very little bit of insulin? I imagine. So again, was he using a very little bit of insulin? Mostly?

Tina 25:54
Yes. Yeah. Yes. And we were, you know, talking to the office to the CDE, at least on the daily about changing his basil, and, you know, changing things. And then finally, one day, it was like, we don't need to call them which was pretty cool. Yeah, to realize that, you know,

Scott Benner 26:16
I remember that. That feeling like, oh, I guess I don't really need to call. I guess I do know what to do here. Like that first moment where you think, Oh, I might be able to figure this out. That's yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty excellent.

Tina 26:29
Yeah, her endo offered us a pump pretty right away, too. And I said, you know, not ready, not ready. And it honestly, it was like his just about six months, right? After six months. diversionary so you say that we did start on the pump. And you know, going from half a unit capability down to point o five is astounding.

Scott Benner 26:57
Yeah, that's a big deal, isn't it? What pump? Did you start with? Omni pod? Okay. And so when do you? I mean, cuz I'm assuming because your background, you were looking into the technology a little bit and, and the idea of like, wanting to be precise, like, I'm assuming is what gets you to the internet. Right? So what do you find first that, like, is it me? Is that like something else? Like, where do you start to dig in.

Tina 27:26
So you were in my back pocket from pretty much day one. Because a friend whose son is type one who's who's a little older than my son, she reached out and said, we'd like to come see you on the hospital. And we we decided we didn't want anybody to come see us. That's how freaked we were. And but she she stayed in touch. And she said, I have these recommendations. And she said, you know, the number one was to Juicebox Podcast. And I was like, what is that? And so I was intrigued. But I was really afraid of going on the internet or, you know, anywhere and starting to hear scary stories. And my heart can take that. And I was like, I just can't. So I did no research at all. And I didn't didn't start listening to the podcast for a little while. And it was it was a few weeks in, I finally was like, Okay, I'm ready to ready to start branching out ready to start learning more. And so I found what I what I felt was a safe book. And it very much was and I I started listening to the podcast. And I'm joined the Facebook group. And would you like me to elaborate?

Scott Benner 28:51
No, no, I liked that idea. Because I think, first of all, I have two thoughts. There's somebody right now, in that situation, who will start to listen to this podcast six months from now. Somebody's told them about it. And they think it's a good idea, but they're not going to do it. I'm learning very much that my adoption, the rate of adoption takes a long time for people like it's not people don't just go oh, wait, there's a podcast that helps. Great. I'll start listening right now, like some people do. But for the most part, it doesn't go that way. And that's the second thing I want to say is that I understand that. Like I make this podcast, I see everybody's feedback. I know how it helps them. And yet when I hear it, I think yeah, that doesn't make sense. Like why would I just start listening to a podcast because my kid was diagnosed with something, or because I turn up at the doctor and he's like, Hey, you have type one diabetes. Your first thoughts now, I should probably go find a podcast that gets some people's first thought but not most people and it's not sexy. Or, like, you know, some of these podcasts that are like all about like, Oh, we're gonna biohack you into being like Lean and like that kind of Yeah, that doesn't actually work for anybody could biohack that would be awesome. Yeah, by the way, like all that stuff that everybody wants to be true, but for the most part doesn't work for anyone. It but I understand why those are popular even and I understand why somebody could be easily drawn into it. I, I think it's a slog to get to this, I have to be honest with you. I don't know, if Arden was diagnosed, and somebody told me there was a podcast about diabetes, and it would help me, I don't think I would have listened to it either. So yeah,

Tina 30:33
I just wasn't, I just wasn't ready to take in more more really personal, personal slash objective information. It's like, I need the objective. I need the how to, how to keep them alive, how to help them thrive, how to make it work. And then once I got that down, down, haha. Once I felt, you know, like, Okay, I think I think we can make it through a day. Okay. You know, it's like, Okay, go ahead and add in. And, um, honestly, you're the years is that for first Pat podcasts that I've, that I started listening to have of any podcasts because I had checked out podcasts before. And I was like, Oh, they're so hard, like, hard to pick what podcast to listen to, and hard to know, you know, what to download and when to download and how much it's going to, you know, monopolize my phone and you know, things like that.

Scott Benner 31:36
I'm also very snobby about how people's voices sound. Like, I don't want to hear oh, yeah, like, nasally people talk to me. I think energy bothers me a lot. So, you know, I'm bad at that. There's a lot of reasons why I start to listen to something and then think, oh, no, this isn't for me.

Tina 31:55
Oh, yeah. I've bought a book on on on Audible a couple of times and started to listen, I'm like, I can't get it. And so I I got a refund.

Scott Benner 32:03
Yeah. Also, bad microphones, bad audio, like stuff like that. Like, I've gotten better, obviously, over the years. But even on day one. I didn't know what I was doing. I still overspent on a microphone. I thought it had sound good. Or like, what's the point? Like, I wish I would have bought this one first, if I'm being honest with you, but anyway, okay, so you find this you start to dig in? What is it you figure out first? And how long does it take you to think I want automated insulin delivery.

Tina 32:37
So honestly, the comfort of having people who are in the same boat you're in and hearing how how well that, you know, how they can live and keep going and smile and laugh and everything that was of such benefit to me. And, and always is, because community is everything with type one community is everything. And I tell I help a lot of people that are newly diagnosed or who have kids that are. And that's what I tell them to start with them, like community is everything. And I do start the baby steps, you know, and I always tell them about the podcast and and tell them about the Facebook group. And I'm like, it's, you know, it may be overwhelming at first. So you may, you know, may want to peek at it and not jump in or you may want to jump in. But you know, there are people that will help you there in the wee small hours of the morning, which, you know, you did me very, you know, pretty early on, when Reese got double dosed one night before bed, and this is in the in the very early days, you know, when we were fingerstick in and you're sticking? No, it was after after Dexcom. But, um, but yeah, sometimes I won't forget,

Scott Benner 33:59
I can't tell how many people I've had phone conversations with over the years, who I've only ever met that one time. I've never seen them again, but through like, you know, a confluence of circumstances, somebody points them to you online. And they reach out and say something that just doesn't seem like it's something you can manage, like typing back and forth. And the idea I took too much insulin story is pretty common. I've had more than my fair share of conversations with people were they're like, Hey, I don't know what to do right now. Like I'm this close to calling 911. And instead they're talking to like a stranger on the phone. And, you know, you're telling them like common sense things. I'm like, Look, first of all, I'm not a doctor and call 911 If you want to, like but you just injected this much insulin. You know, what's your carb ratio? Let's reverse engineer this math and see how much you'd have to eat for this just to be a really good Pre-Bolus You know, and yeah, and that is Usually what gets people through, but most of the time, you know, I mean, some people,

Tina 35:04
yeah, and my

Scott Benner 35:07
God, I'm sorry,

Tina 35:08
I've sorry. There, there were times also when I, you know, was up at night, trying to deal with it and just very lonely and I'm like, I'm gonna turn on the podcast because this is, you know, these are people who, you know, are in the same boat as I am, who can keep me company through the night. So there, there have been, you know, been times where you've kept me company. And we always appreciate that. But um, I'd say the first thing other, you know, after the great community, probably one of the first things was that you don't need to throw 15 grams at it. And I guess along with that, if you need more insulin, yeah, need more insulin,

Scott Benner 35:56
right? Yeah, it's a big step for people. Isn't it like that? You know, it seems so silly when you say it out loud. But you know, your blood sugar is high, you probably need more insulin. That's yeah. And

Tina 36:09
it's, and I, you know, sometimes when Reese is high, or, yeah, when he's high, I'll, I'll be like, Well, I'm gonna Bolus him for, say a one unit snack. And if he needs to snack, he'll get it. And if he doesn't need it, he won't get it. And I think if you think of it in that sort of way, it's a lot easier to give, you know, to go ahead and give another unit or however much he needs. And it's not like I go say, Hey, you want to snack? You might get her you might? I don't do that.

Scott Benner 36:38
I'm gonna give you some insight, and then we'll decide later if you're getting an ice cream. No, I do. I do. Sorry, Scott. No, is that from that idea of like when I tell that story about art and getting high at basketball? Is that where that comes from? When I say like, look, we used to show up at this thing. Sometimes her blood sugar would rise, sometimes it would fall. And we didn't know about adrenaline at that time. Like we were still figuring it all out. But you know, I couldn't show up and watch her blood sugar jumped to 220. So I started Bolus and I started Pre-Bolus thing what I thought the rise was going to be, but then my wife was like, Well, what if it doesn't go up? It didn't go up last week. And I said, Well, in that case, I'll just give her enough insulin that we're basically Pre-Bolus and juicebox. And if it doesn't go up, then she can drink the juice to counteract the insulin. Is that where that hole comes from? For? You

Tina 37:25
know? I don't know. I do. I think I do remember that. Um, but I remember trying, you know, wrestling with how much, you know, this is a lot of insulin to give him but if I just changed my thought process of it, as you know, being Bolus for a snack, then, and just wait. Yeah, because he's not in a range where I would give him a snack. If I just wait for him to get there. He might have it and then I started actually extrapolating. Okay, so when he was first on the pump, or when he was on the pump, just the pump. His dia I think was two hours. And so I'd be like, okay, at one hour, I know from experience, this is how much insulin we really have to deal with. So I would see how, how fast he would start coming down. And if it took a while for him to start, I would know we're dealing with a smaller snack if we're dealing with snack at all, you know, like that. And that's the kind of thing where the, the scientist in me engages so maybe over fully?

Scott Benner 38:35
Well, so what? When did when do you find out about like DIY looping? And how long does it take you to make your way into understanding it and actually doing it.

Tina 38:47
So pretty well run after Rhys was diagnosed I had a lot of people probably more than a dozen people say, I want to come talk to you. Um, you know, I have type one somebody in my family has type one or I want to introduce you to somebody that I know who has a kid with type one. And so it was actually wonderful and so overwhelming. And you know, the people that I was the closest to they're the ones that you know, that of course came first and not everybody got you know, needed to come but I remember one of them told me told me a few things that I went to downstream and checked out and I think that one of them was was dry looping and at first I was like there is no way and in fact I remember telling Reese's No, there was no way I would ever do that. It's not FDA approved. It's you know, I don't know who these people are, you know the whole

Scott Benner 39:47
Yeah. Oh, how can read How can I possibly isn't a boy reactions to that. That news that yeah, online?

Tina 39:57
Yes, I for a long time I was you know for Do long I guess I was because I wasn't sleeping, I was like, I am not. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, we're gonna build loop. So you build it, build lead. And say, here's the computer, here are the directions build loop. And so he did. And we got, we got Rhys up and running and close the loop on the night of the second day. And, you know, I was up late watching it, and I was like, I'm gonna close this, I'm gonna see what happens. I'm gonna go to sleep. And it wasn't like, you know, close it, go to sleep. It was close it watch it for a while, go to sleep. And I got the best night's sleep I had had and months. And, you know, that's, that's how we launched with it.

Scott Benner 40:47
Yeah. Hey, the sleep will sell your for sure. On any, on any of the algorithms at all? Absolutely. So you. So did you get involved in it, then? Like, were you helping on like loot pages on Facebook? And like, did you get involved? Or did you stay on the outskirts of it?

Tina 41:05
So I pretty, you know, the as you know, the documentation for loop is vast, and loop docs. And it says, do not print this out, read it online, because it changes frequently. So I printed the whole thing out, literally, it's a notebook this thick. Because reading online for me is like, like, I might get lost, I'm not sure where to go back to, you know, I can easily mark pages easier. And keep in mind that if I really want to know something, you know, if something's critical, go look online, and whatnot. So I printed it out. And I read the docs, and he read the docs and found the looped Facebook group. And went went on there and did lots of reading and some some question asking and I saw on on somebody's post, there was an answer about how to how to Bolus for meals. That was very different from, you know, what, what I was used to doing at all, I was used to bolusing for carbs, and then later bolusing for fat and protein on the rise. And so the person that wrote, you know, answered this question on the post, I said, Hey, would you mind if I asked you some questions? And she said, Sure. So we went private. And I asked her some questions, and she helped me, you know, figure out how to how to do things the way she was saying and told me why she did them that way. And, you know, and she spent a good bit of time that day with me, which I was not expecting. And then the next the next morning, I said, Hey, this is how the night went. I said we didn't want it if I ask you a couple more questions, and she said, I'm gonna stay with you. So she did. And, um, she actually is on my admin team for loop and learn. And somehow down the way another person who's on my admin of of loop and learn, asked me if I wanted to help with some things there. And then eventually, I was invited to become a moderator on the page. Gotcha. That's great. In the group questions, it's

Scott Benner 43:11
how it works. Like somebody has to stay behind and help somebody else. You know, like most people go on, but some people stay and it's lovely. And so you had that experience, somebody helped you and you thought, wow, hang around and help somebody else?

Tina 43:24
Yeah, I've always been, you know, like, if somebody needs help you help them. Period. Yeah. Unless, you know, unless it causes harm to you or somebody that you know, somebody else. But generally, if somebody needs help you help them so I, I really, am you know, about helping people in every way that I possibly can. And what I am not a code person I do I have made some suggestions that have become some code, which I'm very happy about and and, but as for the coding itself, no clip, give

Scott Benner 44:00
me an example of something you suggested that ended up in the in the app.

Tina 44:05
Um, it's not in the app. It's a it's a what do you call it? A patch slash customization is one and this is one I wasn't the only person that suggested it, but I kind of pushed that you know. And it's the the now bar that used to be part of Luke the bar that is like where you are now. And here's, you know, behind it, the history and in front of it's the future. And so we kind of, you know, got got a little ruckus going about that again, and the person who writes or who has historically written most of the code for loop, didn't want it in there. And so wouldn't

Scott Benner 44:54
you froze. Tina, you are frozen. Frozen for It was in frozen. Tina, you frozen? You were frozen for a while. I don't know if you hear me. Yeah, he didn't want it in there. Ah. Can you hear me out? Yeah. So go back to the Yeah, the code

Tina 45:22
didn't want it in there. So became a patch. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 45:25
But so people? Oh, I mean, I have it. I think it's nice.

Tina 45:31
Yeah, I was like, you know, constantly like holding the phone at an angle, like trying to see exactly where we are precision, accuracy. But like, it was just really valuable on he didn't want it. And I'm like, Why? Why is it that big of a deal? That you won't put it back in there. But we got it back. Um, so. So anyway, yeah, I, I enjoyed being a moderator and loot. And I do a lot of editing. And, and I was organizing the editing team for awhile, and we have kind of a big, big team, but not very many on the team actually do anything. So we have so

Scott Benner 46:16
I have a lot of experience with that. It's hard to like, there's never a shortage of people who say they want to help. But the people who follow through are lesser than the those who yell I want to help like I have, obviously, my I have a fairly robust Facebook group. I think that's a polite way to say, I don't want to say that I have the most active and valuable diabetes Facebook group that exists, but I think I do, but that's neither here nor there. But it's there's so many people in it and so many posts. Like there's two options. Either you get people to help you, or you just go wild west and you tell people like look, I'll do what I can do. But for the most part, you're on your own, which is how I grew it honestly, like I was not a very active like I don't I'm not into telling people how to be.

Tina 47:09
I remember when people were offering to help and you're like, Nope, this is a solo thing. And then all of a sudden, one day, turn the corner or hit the wall or something.

Scott Benner 47:18
I don't know what I hit, I might, I might have turned the wall and hit the corner. But I was just like, wow, this is so big. It does like I haven't looked, it changes so quickly, that I haven't looked in a little while. But my best guess is that it does 110 On average posts every day. Like I think that's about where it's at. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot to keep up with. Yeah, and you can't honestly, like you just you can try, and you can do your best etc. But it's not something that you can just, I don't know, you just can't stay on top of it the way that I think people would, would expect that you should, except I've learned that that's not really important. Like you don't have to moderate it like, quote unquote, the way people think you do. Mostly people are decent. And they they do the right thing for the most part. Yeah. And

Tina 48:11
they drag you in when they need to. And I know I've done that before. Yeah, you need to see this.

Scott Benner 48:17
Once in a while I get the like, hey, come over here. But I'm looking right now. There's just under 40,000. Members. Wow. In the last month, 35 36,000 of them were active. And the average day is about 100 posts can go up to 125. And every once in a while it goes down to 80. But only a couple of times a month. So there's a slow days. Yeah, the slow days, there's ad posts, add new posts. Yeah, there's no

Tina 48:49
way you can keep up with that. And I don't I mean, I I can't keep up with the posts and loop and learn. I don't I don't try. I mean, I don't try on the daily to keep up with them. I do like to go. I do like to keep up with them. But I'm so busy with other things too, that that that's hard for me. And I'm not the person either. That is like this is how you This is how you make it all work. That's not me. I do have insight and cool things to share sometimes. But um, but yeah, um, there are people on there, though, that I don't know how they do it. They see, you know, they basically see everything they are able to answer the questions. They have the knowledge, they have the ability to combat it.

Scott Benner 49:32
It's astonishing, like it really is, like between the new so it's a private group, so you have to answer questions to get in. But there are some times where the algorithm holds you up. And then you have to be like hand approved by somebody. I have to hand approve 30 accounts a day. And then eventually, you know, there's going to be a scammer every three months or every three weeks and you got to go in there and like stop somebody from scamming somebody out of Money or like something like that. And then once in a while somebody goes crazy. Like last night somebody went crazy. And I was like, where did that even come from? Was like, how did that happen? And it was, it was crazy. It was, this person had gotten not in my group and a different group, they had gotten ripped off. Somebody told them, they were selling supplies, they gave him some money in the person wasn't even a person, it was just a scammy account, they took their money and didn't give them anything. So they went around to try to tell people about this, which is I thought, great, you know, look out for these accounts. Like I got scammed by them. Another person comes in and says like, hey, like, you know, I, you gotta be careful. Like, it was like that kind of thing. And then those two people didn't jive. And then somehow these two people who completely agreed on trying to help people started fighting with each other. And I was, and it doesn't happen often. Like I know, people probably imagine that. That's what Facebook is constantly. I'm very proud of my group. Like it does not devolve like that. Hardly ever. But now I'm watching them fight with each other. And I'm like, What is going on now? And I'm working like, it's 10 o'clock at night. I'm making a podcast. I'm building web pages for the podcast, I'm answering emails, I've got like 30 people that want to come on the show. I'm trying to get back to them. People want to buy ads. I'm like all by myself. And I'm like you stop arguing. It's funny.

Tina 51:25
It's easy to get provoked. It really is. I know, there have been a couple of times where I've been like, an answer to somebody and I'm like, do I want that out there? No, no, go back and delete it.

Scott Benner 51:36
Yeah. Well, anyway, like it just like it's overall. And I don't even want to say this. Like, like, I'm like, oh, overall, don't it's good. Like, exceedingly overall, it's amazing. It's really good. If you're a background person looking at it, like the little things that pop up are just like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't do this. Like not now. Like why now? Or like, you know, I'm in the middle of like, trying to bring my kid home from school or something. And I've got like three notes like, Hey, you got to look at this post. And I'm like, leave me. Leave me out. Anyway, yeah. But it's, it's a really valuable way to learn, to ask questions to learn. I've never seen lurking and be more valuable. Like I had a woman pop up the other day. And she's, she's she sent me a note. She's like, I gotta tell you, I just, I've been in this group for three years. She's like, it's helped me immensely. I've never once posted or answered anybody. And I just like I I'm a faceless avatar. But I just wanted to tell you how like, helpful this was for me, like a person who's really engaged in it, but you would have no way of knowing. Oh, well, it's it's pretty pretty much almost Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, ghost. Yeah. So okay, so now you're looping. And you find looping to be valuable. It's working for Reese. Like, you're happy with it? Yeah, slide, you don't use loop anymore.

Tina 52:58
Well, we are currently looping Oh, okay. But we've, we've gone back and forth a little bit, we started using Omni pod five back in July of last summer, use it for two months. And then back to loop. Because there were things about Omnipod five that well, I should say about loop that I missed and things about Omnipod five that were bothering me, such as I was not used to the lack of being able to control you know, adjust things. And the also, I really like being able to Bolus from a watch, which is really nice. And, you know, several other things. But also, I did find that the time that I spent dealing with data, trying to trying to get settings right, trying to understand, um, drastically was was drastically reduced when I when we were using oh, five. And, and I I valued that highly. And so yeah, we went back to loop. And then in November, I believe no later it was in October, somebody asked me about sharing information about oh five so that he could get he's thinking about putting his daughter on it. And so I did and then I said hey, do you want us to hop back over on to oh five and go through it with you? And so I did that. And he's he's learned vast amount about it, you know, way beyond what what I started and he you know, he's helped me quite a bit and he's helped a lot of your listeners and, and learning learning to be less controlling with with the management that's a huge gift of Have Omnipod five, yeah. Um, and, and, and I just really appreciate that. And I took that when, when we transferred back to loop again and December, I took that back and I was trying to tinker things and loosen up things to make it so that we didn't need to be as precise. And I feel like I did a I did a really good job of that. Um, and part of part of the reason that we hopped back over. One of the reasons was that we were having trouble with lows on on the pot five, okay. And, and I was like, I just had I raised the target up, how to restart it, had I done some of those things. back then. I could have overcome that. But, but that's not what I did. So then, honestly, we made some videos about Omni pod five. And we we've had a lot of discussion about between four of us. And in in January, we had a ski trip coming up my family did and I said I'm gonna we're going to start oh, five again, and I'm going to start it at a very reduced basil, and see what happens. Put him on the ski slope. So we and you know, part of the draw is that the system runs magnificently. Without, you know, needing to have your phone near it or needing to have the controller near it. Right, that's, you know, I am. So we've used it for a total of six months. And in the time that we've used it, we've had we've had two times on it came disconnected. Yeah, twice. That's amazing. Right? And when Yeah, when I couldn't find numbers on my phone, I go look on, you know, on on the controller, and there would be numbers. Yeah. So it's astounding, and its reliability there. But yeah, we tried to try to back again in January and stayed on it for another three months. And honestly, I think we ran out of pot. So I switch back over to loot. And, um, and we've been doing that since April,

Scott Benner 57:22
where are you going to land, do you think we'll see that

Tina 57:25
that used to really, you know, eat at me, I was like, I need to make a choice. I've got one foot on the boat and one foot on the shore and I need to make a choice. But honestly, they do they both do such a good job. depending on you know, the time you want to put in the needs that you have. Um, I just, I'm just I feel grateful that we're able to use both. And, um, I also have no problem with tinkering with settings, just like, let's see how this works. It's not like, Oh, we're gonna make sure I do the exact right thing. And I keep him down and range. I don't like it when he's out of range. But I also know how to fix that. And I also know how to tell if we're heading in the wrong direction. You know, so but with I was I was actually quite tickled with oh five, and, and what I feel was my growth and understanding of it. So we started him with the low Basal when we went skiing, and that was a complete dumpster fire day. Because we lost Dexcom about an hour into skiing. And then when when we got a new one up and running, it was 200 high. And a lot of times it floats back down, you know and and lands for you nicely, and we weren't so we were afraid to calibrate it. And it was going from 200 High to 100 high and back and forth. So we just pretty much left him high the whole time. And then I was like, Okay, I need to get this thing's right on here. And because downstream, what I was seeing was that the Max Max insulin bar, you know, the little orange bar was appearing. And I was like, okay, the way to the way to change this is to restart it with higher basil. And so I so I did and it just solved the problem and everything settled out.

Scott Benner 59:33
So when you your first idea to outsmart it was we're going to be doing activity so I'll restart the system with a lower Basal rate, but that wasn't enough. And so you went back to the regular Basal rate that you should have used or you got more aggressive or was it somewhere in between?

Tina 59:52
What I did so so that the point was to keep him from going low. Make it so that it's more aggressive. But raise the so it'll hit harder, but raise the target so that he has plenty of time, plenty of space to if it hits too hard to land, because one of the issues with him is he goes from very sensitive to not very sensitive, and he flips. And is that something you hear about with boys?

Scott Benner 1:00:28
A lot. I mean, in my, in my heart, I would wonder if that wasn't like activity related.

Tina 1:00:35
We see the activity related. needs change. Yeah, definitely.

Scott Benner 1:00:41
What about around growth?

Tina 1:00:44
Yep. And he, he's been growing like a maniac lately. And that was not something that we saw. You know, we didn't see that for a long time. And then we started seeing that, right.

Scott Benner 1:00:56
Yeah, I mean, somewhere between growth activity. Eating like this is eating cycled differently. Does he eat heavier carbs sometimes than others? That kind of stuff?

Tina 1:01:09
It's pretty random. Yeah, that could be honestly, he, you know, he's he's a regular diet eater. Yeah. And we never even before. Before diabetes, we didn't do a lot of cake. And, you know, we did on special days, it wasn't like everyday, you're gonna cookie, that sort of thing. But he also, you know, he needs plenty of that. But there are times like, for example, he's swim. And he has swim team practice at 330 these days. So I want to get him his iob insulin on board reduced by the time it's time for that. So I don't feed him or I try not to have them eat high protein, high fat for lunch, I try to push that more towards breakfast on these days. And then at lunch, make it so it's more carby. So the insulin is out of his system. He doesn't have to have that next bullet. Right.

Scott Benner 1:02:10
Right. That's great. I mean, that's, I think, like most of like successful activity is not having insulin on board while you're during the activity. Like, you know, it's just it's it's the easiest way to avoid lows. I think that and yeah, you you start to move meals around a little bit. So that, you know, to that act of insulin isn't there during the day or whatever you're doing. What, what kind of sports does he play? Yeah,

Tina 1:02:36
he's a swimmer. Just just so he's he's a your realm. swimmer. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:40
So that's a lot of effort. And a lot of Yeah, excellent. Yeah. I would imagine you can get pretty low while you're serving. And then yeah,

Tina 1:02:48
and we've we've seen a man with more insulin on board, I like to send him one and with about half a unit, or less, and if it's old, that's great. Yeah, um, but we sent a man with a lot more and with it being fresher. But it's, and some days we find we can handle that better than others. But honestly, the fact that he that we can't see his numbers when he's in the pool, that's what usually sure makes it the hardest,

Scott Benner 1:03:19
because Bluetooth doesn't work through water.

Tina 1:03:22
Yeah, and actually, we did get, we put the the pod and the transmitter, the sensor next to each other a few times.

Scott Benner 1:03:32
And the rhombi. Pod five kept working. And it worked

Tina 1:03:35
in the pool. Yeah, so that's not reliable. Right. Right. So

Scott Benner 1:03:39
yeah, I don't know if people understand or listening that on the pod five, like if you thinking about loop, loop, the algorithm lives in an app on your phone. And so the brain is in the phone, and then it has to talk to the pod. The Omni pod five, which is the, you know, was the system made by the company, the algorithm actually lives on the circuit board inside of the pod. So if you don't need to be anywhere near your phone, because the sensor, the G right now, just G six is talking directly to the pod. So even if you don't see anything on a screen somewhere, it's still talking back and forth. And you're saying that even though he was in the water, you got some, some connectivity out of that. That's pretty cool.

Tina 1:04:20
Right? But it's, I've thought about actually making some kind of a bubble thing that where you can put them both together and put adhesive around it. And, you know, try and keep them in contact without water between them when he's in the pool. But you know,

Scott Benner 1:04:38
yeah, no, I think you got a little too much free time. You might want to find a hobby.

Tina 1:04:43
Yeah, right. I have free time.

Scott Benner 1:04:47
You gotta find a different hobbies what I'm saying. Yeah, so just I appreciate all this. Like we're coming up on an hour. I want to make sure we're not missing anything. Is there anything we are not having talked about so far that you wanted to make sure we did. Uh,

Tina 1:05:01
um, let's see. I think we're pretty good. i The point is, I guess between Omnipod five and loop is, I just find them both to be incredibly valuable. I find I'm, you know, part of the thing with Loop Two is since I am doing the service that I do via loop and learn it, it kind of benefits me to be in that realm, which I fumbled a little bit with my oh, five speak, I think. And that's probably because I'm not as in that realm right now. But, um, and as far as the loop Aman goes, Omnipod. Five is just, you know, I think it's a great, great thing. Yeah. And, you know, the, the Chief Medical Officer of insolate, has told us and told me personally more than once that if it weren't for the DIY community, insolate would be nowhere near where they are on the pod five wouldn't be what it is, you know, and she has said, Thank you, thank you so much. And so I feel like, you know, aside from all the other, you know, reasons to do it to keep pushing with DIY, even though there are some really good FDA approved options, I feel like, it's really great to keep pushing, because innovation is constant, there are some new things coming up in the loop realm that are going to be really helpful to people.

Scott Benner 1:06:38
Tell me about,

Tina 1:06:40
well, actually, there's a new there is a section, it's on the loop and learn website, it's not in the docs, because it's looping, learn specific, but it's a it's a development, little development section in the customizations section of the build, section. And there are three new things in there. There's, I get this, I get this wrong, but it's glucose. Um, let me get in my app, and I'll see glucose base partial application factor. And that allows and that one has been pushed to dev actually, to the dev branch, that one allows, when you're in auto Bolus, it starts ramping up the amount of starts at a lower amount of insulin Bolus. And then it ramps it up as your glucose rises, instead of it being a constant 40%. Or the constant 17%, that Temp Basal offer offers. There's that one. And then another one that's been pushed to Dev is the integral retrospective correction, which actually uses more information, looking back as to what you know what happened. And it will affect what it does from there with that interesting. And then there's also one that's called profiles, which I'm super excited about this one, it allows you to set up a different profile, or different profiles, just like right now, you probably have one profile set up on the phone. But you can duplicate it, and then change some things and then say this is to you know, this one is the main one, this is Tuesday, because Tuesday is you know, this activity that I need to change things for and and then you can just choose to your profile, when you need it nice instead of it's like it runs constantly, instead of setting on an override.

Scott Benner 1:08:46
Wow, that's very cool. I love that. Yeah. When do you think we see all that?

Tina 1:08:51
Well, the first thing that I told you about have just been pushed into dev, I think on the 23rd. And then I'm not sure about this one. But I think once people are trying to in dev a lot. There are a lot of people that are using these already. And when they see it be stable, and Dev and see that it's what they want. They'll push it to the main loop pool.

Scott Benner 1:09:13
So that'll happen in loop three. Yes, yeah.

Tina 1:09:17
Well, I say yes. There are things that happen that make a leap from Loop Two to loop three, and there will be something that makes a leap from loop three to loop four is probably not this, but I can't be sure. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:30
it's interesting. All right, cool. Well, yeah, way to figure out a way to timestamp your episode to get it moved up in the in the player Good job. Got yourself out way, way ahead. That's a that's very exciting news. I can see the value top my head for the different profiles 100% and the ramping up is a big deal and also being retrospective. I mean, all this is good information, right because you make I'm assuming the retrospective apart is, it's going to be able to say, hey, two hours ago, you made a pretty big Bolus. And you know, you said there were 80 carbs here, but we're still 200. So I can't just assume this is all going to be okay. I gotta be more aggressive. Is that the idea of that?

Tina 1:10:14
It is expected to be more? Oh, well, I haven't tested it yet. But those that those that have say, Yes, it does do a better job with that. And if your settings are right, it could be more aggressive than you want. And right now I have the the glucose. It's funny, I remembered the name is an acronym, based on another acronym, an acronym that I'm familiar with. And then they changed the acronym on me. So I stumble, but it's glucose based partial application factor. And that one we started using on Saturday or Friday. And I'm wanting to see what that does. Yeah. Before I apply the next one.

Scott Benner 1:11:02
Good. I can't wait. I love it. I have people who helped me, I am going to tell you I'm inept at loop, for the most part, like the back end stuff, like the setting it up and the, you know, that stuff. I'm, I don't know, my brain doesn't just work that way. But people are always very kind and helped me.

Tina 1:11:20
The kindness of a community, the people in the community is, I mean, I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen anything like it. And I've never had occasion and need anything. But truly, you know, people in this community are just astoundingly giving. And

Scott Benner 1:11:40
I agree. Yeah, I can't tell you I'm in that includes you. Oh, stop. I mean, listen, I deserve a little help I get the word out about loot pretty well. But I, it's just not like, I'm a good example of my brain doesn't wrap around it. If like if it wasn't for people, I mean, let's be more honest, if it wasn't for the podcast, then people would probably not be as interested in helping, but I bet you I still could find somebody to help. I'm just saying like my brain, like, as many times like, Mike's a great example. Mike's been helping me for a year, right with. And he tells me something and every time he tells me, I think you know what, I'm going to remember this so that I don't have to bother Mike again. And then it comes up and I'm I'm like in a blank panic. I'm like, I don't know how to do this. It's yeah, I don't know what's wrong with how my brain works. But it doesn't Well,

Tina 1:12:35
it's funny because I can you know, we, we have a new, a new way to build a loop that doesn't involve a Mac, we have a couple of new ways to do it. One of which Mike just built, you know, made and dropped on us one time, and that was the remote build amazing. But the the Xcode build on the Mac has been refined so much that it's it's gotten very easy to do. I've built, you know, I don't build super often. But I got so I can build it without help. And I can help other people do it. Which is awesome for me because I want to help people. Yeah, and, um, but the, the, the new browser build that you do on GitHub, which you can do on a PC. I look at I've actually read the documentation for that numerous times. I've edited it, I've you know, the I've made changes to it that that help it be more readable and usable and stuff. I can't do it. But like I I've tried, and I'm like it's just, there's something missing. One of

Scott Benner 1:13:45
the astounding things that's happened in the last year is that there was a like, the app needs to be rebuilt. And Arden was at school 700 miles from here. And Mike was like, yeah, we'll just do this, this this click here. That'll send her an email. Then she just clicks on the email and it just builds the app on her phone. And I'm like, Okay,

Tina 1:14:06
sounds magical. And Magic Mike. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:14:08
Like I'm like, that's, I'm sure he would really love that. And, and I'm like, you know it now I actually have an episode with Mike recorded. I'm gonna put yours out first and then I'm gonna put his out and I'm gonna call his Magic Mike. Tell him just to mess with him.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:26
And oh, get in trouble. Yeah, but

Scott Benner 1:14:29
I swear to you as it's happening and like, that's amazing. And then we went to do it again. And I just, I'm like, I know there's a way to do it. I don't remember it. And I always feel like he's looking at me like, you idiot. Like, oh, no, but he's Mike is so lovely. Yeah, I such

Tina 1:14:45
a kind just, he's such a kind con person in such a cool person. And, um, and patient and he you know, he has a degree in Computer stuff. And that's one of his gifts, you know? Yeah. Wonderful. I have I have another another guy who will remind you of Mike a bit who I'm going to send your way to, um, that I think you'll really like.

Scott Benner 1:15:14
Okay, wonderful. I love these conversations. So I appreciate this one to you today and the one that I had with Mike and God who like just have on recently that did such a good job of talking about moving from loop to Omni pod five. John FOSS on John. Yeah, well, his episodes terrific.

Tina 1:15:32
It is terrific. Yeah. He's, he's like a savant savant stage.

Scott Benner 1:15:37
I mean, the way he talks about it is just very clear to me. And yeah, that's a skill in itself, right? To be talking about something so technical and to make it feel accessible while you're talking about it's really, really a skill.

Tina 1:15:53
Yeah. And he, he's, um, his daughter is mostly managing on her own now. And that's what we're moving to we've, you know, Reese's 13, as I said, and so I'm not, you know, not pushing for him to be independent anytime real soon, but we're working towards that.

Scott Benner 1:16:16
Oh, I'll tell you right now that aren't artists, like, she's independent with it. You know, like, I'll help her sometimes. Or I'll send her a note. I'll be like, hey, you need to, like, you know, you gotta be more aggressive here. Whatever you did two hours ago didn't work or like that kind of stuff. But like she, she handles it. Like, even the other day. She's home now. And I walked into her room, and I was like, hey, you need to she's like, I got I got it. I'm like, okay. That's cool. That's really cool. That's great. So I bet you're

Tina 1:16:45
glad to have her home.

Scott Benner 1:16:46
I really am. I would like it if everybody came home, and we just pretended it was 10 years ago. We lived here forever, but I don't think that's gonna happen. So that's how I feel to get something. Okay. All right, Tina, thank you so much for doing this with me. I really appreciate it.

A huge thank you to Tina for coming on today and sharing her story with us and talking so much about loop and algorithms. I also want to thank cozy Earth for being a great sponsor this year, they're still with us because you guys are going to cozy earth.com and using the offer code juicebox when you make a purchase, so thanks to them. And thanks to you. Let's also thank the place where Arden gets her Dexcom and Omni pod supplies from us med go to us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your free benefits check today. And once you know everything's good to go, you can get your supplies the same way we do from us summit.

The after dark series from the Juicebox Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From smoking weed to drinking with type one perspectives from both male and females about having sex with diabetes. We talk about depression, self harm, eating disorders, mental illness, heroin addiction, use of psychedelics, living with bipolar, being a child of divorce, and honestly so much more. I can't list them all, but you can by going to juicebox podcast.com. Going to the top and clicking on after dark. There you'll see episode 807 called one thing after another episode 825 California sober. Other after dark episodes include unsupported survivor's guilt, space musician, dead frogs, these titles will make you say what is this about? And then when you listen, you'll think that was crazy. juicebox podcast.com Find the after dark series. It's fantastic. If you are a loved one has been diagnosed with type one diabetes. The bold beginnings series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to begin listening. In this series, Jenny Smith and I will go over the questions most often asked at the beginning of type one. Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist who is also a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for 35 years. My name is Scott Benner and I am the father of a child who has type one diabetes. Our daughter Arden was diagnosed in 2006 at the age of two. I believe that at the core of diabetes management, understanding how insulin works, and how food and other variables impact your system is of the utmost importance. The bold beginning series will lead you down the path of understanding. This series is made up of 24 episodes, and it begins at episode 690. Get your podcasts or audio player. I'll list those episodes at the end of this. To listen, you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the menu at the top and choose bold beginnings. Or go into any audio app like Apple podcasts, or Spotify. And then find the episodes that correspond with the series. Those lists again, are at Juicebox Podcast up in the menu or if you're in the private Facebook group. In the featured tab. The private Facebook group has over 40,000 members. There are conversations happening right now and 24 hours a day that you'd be incredibly interested in. So don't wait. So don't wait. Check out the bold beginning series today and get started on your journey. Episode 698 defines the bold beginning series 702, honeymooning 706 adult diagnosis 711 and 712 go over diabetes terminologies in Episode 715 We talked about fear of insulin in 719 the 1515 rule, Episode 723 long acting insulin 727 target range 731 food choices 735 Pre-Bolus 739 carbs 743 stacking 747 flexibility in Episode 751 We discussed school in Episode 755 Exercise 759 guilt, fears hope and expectations. In episode 763 of the bold beginning series. We talk about community 772 journaling 776 technology and medical supplies. Episode 780 Treating low blood glucose episode 784 dealing with insurance 788 talking to your family and episode 805 illness and ketone management. Check it out. It will change your life. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast

#976 Type Two Stories: Nanci

Nanci has type 2 diabetes.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 976 of the Juicebox Podcast

I am back with another type two story today is with Nancy. Nancy had gestational diabetes with I think her second pregnancy she's a type two now has been for quite some time. And this story is I think it's a lovely I think it's an honest portrayal of what it might be like to live with type two diabetes. And it offers some real insight to things that maybe could have been done differently for Nancy, but things you could definitely implement now. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Save 40% By using the offer code juice box at checkout at cozy earth.com I am wearing my cozy Earth joggers right now. And I put brand new cozy Earth sheets on my bed yesterday and I got in them and I thought this is how it's supposed to be save 40% off your entire purchase at cozy earth.com When you use the offer code juicebox at checkout

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the blood glucose meter that my daughter uses. And one that I think you should check out whether you have pre diabetes, type two diabetes or type one diabetes because it is so incredibly awesome and accurate. That Contour Next One Gen blood glucose meter. Learn more Get started today by right now online. Find out about the Second Chance test strips the whole thing. All that stuff you can learn at my link contour next.com forward slash juicebox. Today's show is also sponsored by touched by type one now. Right now Today is August 8. So that means in just a little over a month touched by type one.org. Programs tab annual conference in just over a month. I will be speaking at the touch by type one annual conference. It's a free conference for individuals of all ages and backgrounds. The goal of this conference is to educate, encourage and empower all lives touch with type one diabetes, whether you have type one, or just the connection to someone who does. The annual conference provides a unique opportunity to be surrounded by the nation's top experts related to thriving despite diabetes. And I feel weird saying that because I'm gonna be one of those people come see me speak on September 16. At the Rosen Shingle Creek, Orlando, Florida location, come on touch by type one.org It's free. And Jenny's gonna be there. Go Register Now what are you doing? What's back that place?

Nanci 3:02
My name is Nancy with an eye not a why? Almost 58. I'll be 58 at the end of the month. And I am a type two diabetic along with a myriad of other things.

Scott Benner 3:16
Oh, that's, that's gonna make a great conversation. Thank you for having health issues and coming. I really appreciate it. You're welcome. So you're 57 Almost 58. When did you learn that you had type two.

Nanci 3:32
So I had gestational diabetes with my second pregnancy. And after I had my second daughter it was kind of it was strange, because I didn't know what gestational diabetes was like. I felt like no one ever explained it to me. No one around me had ever had it. I never had read about it. I mean, I just didn't know what it was. And mostly I felt like when I would go for my checkups. They would well kind of berate me about how much weight I was gaining and that my blood sugar levels weren't good. And I really still like think back to then and I'm just so surprised at how little I knew and how little I was told about it.

Scott Benner 4:25
Nancy, let me ask you a question before you go any farther. Is there any chance that in your spare time you torture puppies? No, it's what is that noise?

Nanci 4:37
I'm so sorry. It's my dog. slash my daughter's dog. And she she's a poodle and she's extremely needy. And she's

Scott Benner 4:49
outside of the room.

Nanci 4:50
Yeah, she's

Scott Benner 4:52
what would you let her in?

Nanci 4:54
I'ma let her in. Yeah, hopefully hopefully she'll behave because she really doesn't like being there. I'm so sorry. All

Scott Benner 5:02
right now it just sounds like you're breaking a law of humanity. While you're

Nanci 5:06
Yeah, she's, she's she's pretty good at that to be honest. She her name, her name is Luna. She's little white poodle. And she is 11 years old and probably the most needy dog on the planet.

Scott Benner 5:23
Well let her and let's see what let's see what happens to Luna when she comes in. By the way around here. The moon was amazing last night something called a Strawberry Moon. I don't know if it Yes,

Nanci 5:31
yes. And and yesterday we were talking about how she was even more needy. And someone said, oh, you know there's a full moon and dogs get a little bit more. And I had never heard that before. So

Scott Benner 5:49
yeah, is she in? She then we tell you a story. My mom and dad owned a poodle that they loved very much. And then they adopted me and the poodle went after me and my mom got rid of the poodle. Oh, my goodness. thank my mom for sticking up for me right now. Well,

Nanci 6:09
I mean, not I'm not gonna say that my daughter doesn't love her dog. But my daughter just had her second baby. And so that's why I have the dog. Luna lived with me years ago when my daughter still lived here wasn't married. And she was like both our dog and then my daughter moved out and she took the dog. And truthfully, I missed the dog more than her. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. And so I had visitation with the dog. So I would take the dog every few weekends and after her first daughter was born, we were kind of concerned because Luna can have a little bit of an attitude. So they did okay together. But after the second baby my daughter was a little overwhelmed. So I have had the dog for almost three months now. And we don't know what's gonna happen.

Scott Benner 7:09
How much do you get paid to watch the dog?

Nanci 7:13
I get love and adoration.

Scott Benner 7:16
I just took my dog either. We use this terrific like kind of private kennel near my house. So it's lovely for the dogs. They I think they like it. They're better than they like it in our house. And I know what I just paid her to watch my dogs for 10 days. So I think you are being underpaid love is not enough. Oh my God. Are you paying for the food too?

Nanci 7:37
No, that's this is so funny Scott that you asked that. So Luna being a poodle, you know, she's had some stomach issues throughout her life. So like I said, She's almost 11 So my daughter, you know, buys her this bougie food from the farmer's dog. Am I allowed to say that? I'm sorry. Sure. And it is expensive, like almost $300 a month for dog food. And so I was

Scott Benner 8:06
yeah, you guys were royalty. Am I talking to royalty? Oh my gosh, that's lovely. Do I curtsy to you? Are you a queen? $300 a month to feed your dog. Hold on a second. Yeah. 300 times 12 I can do this in my head six. And then three. Is it $3,600 a year to feed that poodle? Yeah.

Nanci 8:31
I know. It's crazy.

Scott Benner 8:34
I know. He's not laughing at me. But I am. Oh my god.

Nanci 8:40
I mean, so that was like one of the things I was like, you know, we can take Luna but her bougie lifestyle is above my paygrade so you're gonna have to continue to pay for the dog food. So she still pays for the dog food.

Scott Benner 8:57
I'm gonna I'm going to tell you something. We're gonna get to your type two diabetes in just a second. Okay, but I remember gestational the whole thing I got it in my head. Don't you worry. We had to take a trip to see our kids right. And I have two dogs. India's old like I'm not kidding you. He's 15 like India is the kind of old that like when you wake up in the morning you'll stare at him to see if he's breathing and when he's breathing you go huh no kidding. Like it's that he's that he's that all right. And then Basil is like seven or eight which I guess is getting old but he's pretty much like luggage. You could just pick them up put them down somewhere else he exists again. I think his brains the size of a Walmart like he's fantastic. You know? So our kennel says look in these two old he can't come here anymore. We have to find another kennel. Alright, I understand. We only use this place like once a year so it's not like we're great business for them or anything like that. Just you know too much to watch him to get his age. And so I find another kennel that's like don't worry about him being an older dog. We Trouble that oh my god, it's terrific. Thanks. We dropped them off. Here's the play. I'm going to drive to Atlanta with my son. And the next day Arden is going to drive to Savannah. Or what am I supposed to say she, Where does she go to school? Chicago, I think that's what I'm supposed to say. And Kelly and Kelly is going to drive to work on and goes to school. So I leave a day before I am halfway to Atlanta, when my phone rings. And the kennel says, Hey, you got to come pick your dogs up. And I was like, what now? And she goes, and all I could think is oh, God, indeed. Like, scared them like you. He went into one of his like, staring at the wall faces and they were like, oh, no, like, what's wrong? And she goes, Basil won't stop knocking his water over. And I went, Oh, that's easy. Just don't give him water. Because I'm in self preservation mode at this point. I'm like, no, no, no, like, this isn't happening, you know? So she just No, listen, you know, we tried doing this. We tried giving him a bucket. We tried tying the bucket to the cage. He flips it over immediately. We can't leave him here without water. And I was like, Sure you can. It'll be fine. I was like, I mean, not forever. Like, give him water with this food. He'll drink it, and then he won't have it the rest of the time until he eats again. Wait, no, no, I can't do that. I'm like, I mean, that's what we do at our house. But okay, I'm like, like, there's not always water in a bowl like there is but not always like it really. I can't talk her into it. So I'm calling my wife. I'm like, I don't know what to do. And so I call the woman back again, I tried to talk her out of it. And in the midst of trying to talk her out of it. I say to her, Listen, I can't do I can't. I was like, here's what you're gonna need to do. Let them outside. If Jesus wants him to find us. When he comes back, you know, if he comes back, when I get back from my trip, whatever, I'll go to the woods where you let them out. And I'll call his name a couple times. I'm like, if he comes back then God bless. And if not, I'm like, I have no other options here. I can't I can't not. I can't get oh my deal with this. And she's like, No, oh my gosh, out of no partying goes. You know, we just bought that new water dish. Like, like, I want to be clear. Bezos never flipped his water bowl over here at my house ever once. Never. But recently gotten this water dish that didn't allow for sloshing because because India's messy when he drinks, and it has little rubber feet on it. And oh, Arden Kelly ran that over to the kennel put it in there, Basil looked at it. He was like, Oh, this is cool. And he left it alone. And that was that. But I was willing. I'm even worried were I was like you're committed, let them outside. And we'll find them a reward when we get back. And I didn't really mean that. But I was out of options. Anyway, dogs are a pain. People shouldn't buy them. They're loved

Nanci 12:58
I, but they are there. They're the greatest companions. And they're, they are like, so sweet and fun. But there are a lot there. There are a lot. No,

Scott Benner 13:09
I would have abandoned a child. If somebody told me I had to drive back from Italy.

Nanci 13:13
Right? Like, sorry, drop her off at the bus station. We'll see you whenever

Scott Benner 13:18
Oh my god. So now, you know this last time we left them nd so old that that the person says to me, I have to ask you like, if he passes while he's here, what do you want us to do? And I was like, we'll call the vet. And you know, I'll work it out with them. What we would do and everything. And she goes, would you want us to call and tell you? And I didn't hesitate? I was like, Yes, of course. And I said is that a question? She goes, a lot of people ask not to be bothered on their vacations if their dogs die. Then those people are monsters that like Yeah, and if you're listening, and you've done that you're a piece of shit. And so it's a very easy thing to like to come down on the side of I was like, no, please, if anything's wrong with my pets, please call me immediately. I might tell you to let them out. But

Nanci 14:09
I want to know do you want to know safe house? Yeah. unrealised

Scott Benner 14:12
she told me a lot of people say that. Like if he dies. Don't tell me. We'll find out when we get back. I'm like, oh, that's I don't know where to fall on that one. But anyway. That's extreme. Yeah. Speaking of extreme, tell your daughter. I said She's out of her fucking mind. Okay, I

Nanci 14:30
know. You're not the first got, believe me.

Speaker 1 14:36
10s of 1000s of people listening right now going, that girl is crazy. So anyway, very nice that you would do that for the doc. You get gestational diabetes with your second kid during the pregnancy, which was a long time ago because how old are your children?

Nanci 14:51
Um, so the one that I had gestational with is 31.

Scott Benner 14:55
Wow. So that was, yeah, 31 years ago. Gestational Diabetes. I was confused about something people are going to be like, I don't know how Scott did this after this long tangent about dogs but I remember you saying they were giving you trouble about your weight. Was this during your pregnancy people were?

Nanci 15:12
Yes. Okay. Yes. And I had I had already had severe insecurities about my weight, I had that pretty much to my whole life.

Scott Benner 15:27
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Nanci 16:53
And I did gain a lot of weight. I mean, I am only five to maybe five, three on a good day. And I was upwards of over over 200 pounds when I gave birth to my first daughter. And then again, upwards of over 200 pounds when I gave birth to my second daughter. But I had gained a lot of weight rapidly at the beginning of my second pregnancy. And the nurses, when I got on the scale would just give me like this shocked look that they couldn't believe that I gained that much weight. And one nurse even said, are you having twins? And I was like no, not that I know of. I'm just big. And one of the one of the funniest or it's funny now it wasn't funny them but one of the funniest stories that I ever tell people. When I was pregnant with my second daughter, she was born right before Christmas. And so I was at a mall with my mom trying to get all of the Christmas shopping done before she came because I knew she was going to come and then I wouldn't be able to go and do all the Christmas shopping. And I mean I was huge. And I was standing outside of the store waiting for my mom and a complete stranger walked up to me and looked at me and she said, You are the biggest pregnant woman I have ever seen.

Scott Benner 18:29
Oh, Merry Christmas.

Nanci 18:31
I know. And I oh my goodness, I immediately started just bawling. And my mom came out and she thought I was in labor. And she was like what is happening? And I couldn't even talk. I was so upset. This woman would say that to me. But yeah, yeah, well.

Scott Benner 18:50
Hey, Sandra. Wait, what? No, no. When you said you were over 200 When you gave birth? What were you when you started like on the day you got pregnant?

Nanci 18:59
So with my first daughter, I mean, I was I was probably only about 125 pounds. So I probably Yeah, I probably gained a good 7580 85 pounds what my first pregnancy and then was with my son.

Scott Benner 19:17
Was it mentioned to you during your first one. Doctor say hey, we're putting on a lot of weight here or I'm uncomfortable with Was there ever any conversation about that? No, no. Did you feel that way?

Nanci 19:30
I mean, I did. I did because I was very aware of how big I was getting. And I felt huge. And I I knew that I had gained more than what normal I guess regular pregnant women to me. Seem like what they gain but yeah, in my first pregnancy. I never remember them. meaning my OBGYN or the nurses or anybody saying anything. I don't know if it is because I was so young, I was only 23 When I had my first daughter, so I don't know if maybe it was because I was so young and maybe not that I was that much older. I was 25 when I had my second daughter, so, but I didn't lose all of the baby weight from my first daughter when I got pregnant with my second daughter. So I probably was about 150 pounds when I got pregnant with my second daughter, and again, was probably, you know, to 10 to 11 When I gave birth to her,

Scott Benner 20:36
did they look at your blood sugar during the first pregnancy?

Nanci 20:41
I believe that I did have the, you know, like three hour glucose test during my first pregnancy, but I complete I can't, like totally remember, you know, because it was a long time ago. And I was young and and I I don't really remember, I definitely remember with my second daughter having it and not passing I guess, you know, and my, again, I have the same OBGYN so I'm not really sure. Like, why? It seems like a different experience. But, um, yeah, he would just kind of like, you know, ask me what I was eating. And then when I would say what I was eating, he'd say, you know, are you crazy? You can't eat that you're gonna you're gonna kill yourself and your baby. And I was like, what? Like, I just remember like, not understanding really what they were saying.

Scott Benner 21:42
Did you Nancy feel like you were eating more food than was reasonable?

Nanci 21:50
I don't think I don't think I was to be honest. I think I probably over indulged in some stuff. Okay. But I do think I had, like, I ate the wrong things. You know, I, I ate pasta, and bread, and heavy carb food, which I know now. But back then, to be honest, I really didn't know like, I I remember, you know, when I was younger, I was just thought sugar made you fat, or sugar made you have bad things happen to you. But I'm half Italian. And so, you know, we eat pasta and bread. And can I you know,

Scott Benner 22:37
can I ask also? I mean, this is 31 years ago. So, you know, a while back? Was there any like that like, well, I'm pregnant. I can eat whatever I want. Now, did that used to be? It was right.

Nanci 22:49
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm here eating for two. And I mean, most of my family members felt that way and thought that way. Yeah. So just Yeah, go ahead. You can have it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:05
Wow. So when you are diagnosed with gestational, and your second pregnancy, how do they manage it?

Nanci 23:13
So the only way that they managed it was by having me die diet. They just said I had to eat a better diet and that I couldn't have bread and pasta and to eat a lot of salad vegetables. And

Scott Benner 23:36
that was it. Did that work? Did that move your blood sugar down?

Nanci 23:40
I mean, I know that when I would go to my doctor's appointment, and they would test my blood sugar. They would say, Oh, it's a little high. But again, like I kind of remember like one time I think it was like 155 But, and I was like, is that good? Is that bad? And really, it was so strange to me. I think now knowing what I know. It was so strange to me back then that they, they didn't educate me at all like it was you would think I was living in like the 1930s in some backwoods town somewhere that, you know, they were just like, Oh, you're fine. I I just remember her I fell out knowing of it back. Yeah. Right. Like I just remember not not knowing anything and no one explaining anything to me.

Scott Benner 24:36
Okay, so they didn't give you they didn't give you insolence. Nope. Okay, so was the baby born like, big?

Nanci 24:45
She was huge. Okay. She was she was 10 pounds when she was born they and again back it's so funny because my you know, my daughter who just had two children. She's had a I don't know, seven or eight ultrasounds, I feel like with each baby, and when I had my children, they would not do an ultrasound on you, unless they really thought there was something wrong. It wasn't it wasn't a normal thing that you had done. So I remember about two, two or three weeks before I was due. My sister lot actually just had a baby and I was at the hospital visiting her, we have the same doctor. And I had been sent for an ultrasound. And I was sitting in my sister in law's room, I had to have the ultrasound went over there. And my daughter came in, which was her doctor as well, completely ignored her and looked at me and said, Do you know how big your baby is? You need to go over to the office right now. So they can schedule us for a C section. And I was like, Oh, my goodness. So yeah, I went over to the office. And they scheduled me and brought me in for the C section. And when they did the ultrasound, they said that they were reading that the baby was about 11 and a half pounds. But she ended up being 10. Because I just had so much fluid that yeah, she was 10 pounds, she was very big. So then

Scott Benner 26:18
after you have your, your daughter, your second child, how long until like, do you have type two diabetes right away? Or how do you find out about it.

Nanci 26:28
So after I had her, they, you know, had done all like the blood tests and things that they do in the hospital and my doctor had come in and he was like, it doesn't look like your blood sugar levels have, you know, dropped back down to normal. So I, you know, want you to see your just regular family doctor for this. And I remember a couple of months after I had my daughter, I went for a checkup and they you know, had test I had had like a fasting glucose done. And my fasting was like 160. So my doctor was like, oh, yeah, you have type two diabetes. And again, they just said, this is what we want. We want you to be on this diet, and we want you to get more exercise and you have to lose weight, you absolutely have to lose weight. And so that's what I did. I I went balls to the wall, I ate nothing but salad. And I walked miles and I lost the weight. And when I lost the weight and I went and had all my blood tests done again, my blood sugar's were pretty good. So basically, that was my

Scott Benner 27:45
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I was. Yeah, the lettuce for the rest of your life and walk right nonstop. Yeah, I think I'll be fine.

Nanci 27:52
And, and that's how I thought Scott like that is what I believe to be the rest of my life. And that just started the roller coaster of me dieting, trying every diet under the sun, you name it, I've done it. Gaining weight

Scott Benner 28:13
is that can I ask you Is that because you wanted to eat more normally, but you were just searching for something that wouldn't impact your blood sugar?

Nanci 28:20
Yes. All right. And I tried, I tried everything I and I would go six months, and I would lose weight and I would have good test results. And then after the six months, I would be like, Oh my God, I need a cheeseburger. And and so I would start eating what you know, quotations normal, I would I would think I have to eat normal, and then I would gain weight again. And then I would go and Jenny Craig and I would lose weight and then I would gain weight and go on Weight Watchers. And I mean it just went on like that for years.

Unknown Speaker 29:01
How long do you think

Nanci 29:04
I'm all the way to when I was. So in 2012 I had a spinal fusion where I had to have my C four through my C seven and my neck fused. Really probably just due to inactive lifestyle from when I was young. Because I didn't really like suffer any kind of trauma that would have caused me to have the injury in my neck that I had. So growing up little backstory growing up. I was extremely active. I rode horses competitively, I skied. I rode motorcycles. I was a cheerleader I ran track, so always fit I was always moving, doing stuff and I'm in 2012, I had to have this surgery. And after the surgery, the doctors were like, and I had been running prior to that doctors are like, No more running. You have to do low impact you can swim, you know. And I think I just was like, I, at that point, I just was like, I give up. I am so I'm just, you know, I'm done with all of

Scott Benner 30:30
it. Was really helping you with your type two.

Nanci 30:34
Yeah. And in between that, right. So I was doing like, I went on the diet where, like you, you don't eat anything white. So you have any sugar or rice or white potato or pasta. And I was like, you know, champion through that. And then again, went back to like, Oh, I really want to eat bread. I want to eat this. And then I found keto at some point. And I was like, the poster child for keto. I mean, I was trying to sell it to everybody I knew because I lost weight on keto. So I was like, This is the greatest thing. You can eat bacon and cheese and still lose weight. It's so great.

Scott Benner 31:14
Until that one day, were you looking at a slice of bacon and think I can't I can't, I can't do that. Again. I can't, there can be no more grease that comes from me. And it's unpleasant. Right? And so, wow. And through all of this. Are you? Like, are you managing with a meter? Do you have insulin? Like, what are you doing with your diabetes? So

Nanci 31:38
so the only so then what? So what happened then was I gained a whole bunch more weight again, right? And so years go by with me doing all this right. And then when I turned 50, and I went to my yearly checkup, and I mean, my, my fasting, glucose was horrible. And that's when I got put on the Metformin. And, to me, I thought, well, everyone that takes Metformin, I don't want to say gets better, but it improves their numbers. And I hadn't been tracking my numbers I had, I had a meter that did your ketones, because I had been doing keto. And the meter also came with that you could test your blood sugar. So I remember I was like, Oh, maybe I should try this. Let me let me test my blood sugar. And I tested it. And it was like 211. And I was like, I don't think that's good. And so that's when I started when I was about 50. And I started looking up and reading and trying to understand and educate myself about what was going on. Also, there's a long, long history of diabetes, type two diabetes in my family, my mom passed away from complications of it. My grandparents, both had it, all of my mom's brothers and sisters. And I still even with them having it back before I was about 50. I never educated myself about it. I never took the time to sit down, read about it, learn about it. And I beat myself up now for not doing that, because I know how important it was and that I should have been more aware of what was happening.

Scott Benner 33:44
Let me let me ask you a couple of questions about that. So your your mother dies from complications of type two diabetes? Yeah, you have type two diabetes, and you're in the middle of this never ending like flurry of jumping from diet to diet. And then I guess I'm assuming at some point, just restricting your diet so much that its value, you know, you're you're not taking in anything that can impact you at all, and then saying, Oh, I can't do this anymore. And then going back to it again. So you're flip flopping back, or at any point during that. Are you thinking I'm gonna die like my mom did?

Nanci 34:20
Um, yes, but only probably a little bit more recent. recent, recent, yeah. Because

Scott Benner 34:29
how long has this been in context? Like you've had type two for how long?

Nanci 34:33
So officially put on medication when I turned 50.

Scott Benner 34:38
Okay, but that's, um, that's eight years ago.

Nanci 34:41
Right. But, but, you know, between my gestational and turning 50 And all those years and looking at what what my blood sugar's were each time I would go for my checkup. They were always elevated. Not Not, not in like For hundreds but always like a fasting glucose of 161 70, sometimes 210, you know, which is clearly not healthy. But yeah, put on medication at 50.

Scott Benner 35:20
Put on medication at 50. And so it's interesting because 160, right, like, I think it's interesting to hear that you saw that blood sugar and you were like, Okay, well, I guess that's what this is. Or I, it's what happens when I eat XYZ instead of this. But no, like, not, not to feel like a poll to be like, Oh, I have to immediately stop this. Like, like, I don't I mean, like coming from a, like a type one brain. If you're my daughter's blood sugar was always 160. I think, Oh, my God, like, I have to do something right now today, like cancel our plans. I'm figuring this out. But it doesn't strike that way. And I've talked to other type twos as well, who will make these kind of like obvious statements from their life that are just like, to anybody listening. You're like, that's a red flag, but they don't see it that way. I never. I mean, I'm always trying to figure out why that is.

Nanci 36:21
Yeah, I I find it so bizarre now, because I know so much more. But it's, it's strange, because I remember distinctly after my mom passed away, because my mom was sicker than anyone knew she was because she didn't really. She didn't want people to know how sick she was. And so it was kind of a, I mean, we knew that she had diabetes and high cholesterol and high blood pressure. And we didn't know she had emphysema and we weren't aware of that. She did smoke. So we probably should have been aware. But my mom died pretty suddenly, she actually came to visit me where I live. And she would stay with me for like three months out of the year. And she was here visiting me and had some back pain. I thought it was maybe kidney infection or something. And I took her to the hospital. And three days later, she passed.

Scott Benner 37:39
Oh my gosh, yeah. I'm so sorry. Oh, what was what was the cause?

Nanci 37:47
So she went septic because she had a kidney infection. And her kid their kidneys were only functioning at I think they said at that time, maybe at like 20 or 30%. And it was, you know, from the diabetes? Yeah. And the rest of her, you know, Oregon's in her body had just worn out and the infection got into her blood. And she went septic and there was just nothing that she that they could do.

Scott Benner 38:19
Yeah, so she had had type two for how long?

Nanci 38:24
So she had had probably type two since she was about, I would say, probably 5055.

Scott Benner 38:31
Okay, and how old was she when she passed?

Nanci 38:35
I'm 77. Okay, so

Scott Benner 38:37
in 27 years of diagnosed type two, what was what was her management like? So she was on I'm sorry, I know. You said she kept it private, but as much as you know, right. Yeah.

Nanci 38:49
So I mean, she was on medication she took I can only assume and I know, it's crazy. That I don't know exactly. But I can only assume that it was something like Metformin that she was taking. And she just, I guess would just didn't want everyone to know. And because we I lived so far away from her. She lived 1500 miles away from me. And you know, when I would ask her, Oh, how was your doctor's appointment? She would say, Oh, wait, went well. I did good. So we I just didn't know how bad it was. And I knew she took pills because she had prescriptions with her when she would visit me and she would take them but from an outward or parents you know, she she didn't seem frail to the point that she looked sickly. She she just looked like my mom

Scott Benner 39:56
wanted to share this with you. My mom had a some sort of an episode last week where she was having trouble walking. And and I called her about two days. I mean, I was talking to her pretty consistently, but about two days into this. It is a situation where my mom finds it difficult for her to get like from her chair to her bathroom and back again. I call her up and we're talking everyday. So mom how you feel? And she was fine. I was like, Oh, great. You know, and they were chatting a little more, that it occurred to me to talk to her like she was 10. Mom, are you still having trouble walking? Yes. But you feel fine. Yes. I said, Mom, I think we can characterize not being able to walk to the bathroom is not feeling fine, don't you? Yes. And she goes, Yeah, probably. And it was like, Okay, no, fine. I'm fine. Everything's great. Fine, great. It's wonderful. Mommy changes. Nope. It's always like that. Never ever, ever says the truth.

Nanci 40:56
I know. And I've, you know, I do find that I do it too. You know, like, I think I don't want to I don't want to trouble my daughters with, you know, what I consider to be like, a small issue or something. So they same thing. They'll ask me and I'll just be like, nope, fine. I'm doing good.

Scott Benner 41:15
Yeah, yeah. It's just it's interesting. I don't think yeah, not common. But I mean, it's crazy, because, because look at what happened to your mother really like that idea of not understanding type two diabetes, either meaningfully with how to control it with medication, or how to control it as best you can with diet, then seeing if you need to supplement with medication, that whole thing, just not understanding it. And not understanding what it does. Like just takes her out like bang. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, and even, there's language you use around it. That makes it clear to me that people are just comfortable with this. Like you said, like, our organs just wear out. As if that's the thing that happens. You don't I mean, like, yeah, your organs just wear out eventually. But But when your sugar's high all the time, they were out a lot quicker. And yeah, and it's, um, it's just I don't know, it's kind of fascinating to me. So I'm sorry. Good. You have something to say?

Nanci 42:15
No. And again, I do like distinctly remember thinking to myself, after my mom passed away that I would, I wouldn't be like that, that I would never let myself get to that point of leaving my children so quickly. And not not having a control or a handle on my health. And, and yet, it still happened to me.

Scott Benner 42:44
Yeah. Tell me then through those eight years.

Nanci 42:48
Did you write so?

Scott Benner 42:49
Did you have that fight? Like, I'm gonna figure it out?

Nanci 42:53
Yeah, I mean, I kept trying, you know, I kept saying, I can do this, you know, I can get a handle on my health, I can do this. And like I said, I would try different diets. And, you know, my daughter got married, so I wanted to look good. And I went on, again, keto, and I walked and, you know, lost some weight. And right after the wedding, it was, Oh, I could have this or I can just have that. And it's fine. I'm going to I'm just going to have this.

Scott Benner 43:33
Yeah. And move away a little bit. Right, and then flows last much longer than you think they're going to.

Nanci 43:40
Exactly. And I just remember, I didn't you know, I just didn't feel good. You know, I had gotten to the point where, like, prior I think I'd never not really felt okay. I mean, I always felt like I felt okay, and probably, you know, right, I guess you know, COVID just like time is like so weird with COVID You can't remember if it was like was it before COVID Or during COVID But I think it was somewhere before COVID That I really just started to not feel well and you know, tired and sluggish and just not not feeling well at all and was so frustrated with myself that I couldn't lose weight and I so I came to the conclusion and it wasn't an easy one. But I said, I'm gonna have weight loss surgery. This is what I'm going to do to finally get a handle on all of this because I just can't I just can't get it handle on it and I need to and so I started like the whole procedure of Getting a gastric bypass, which is a long procedure. Like I think people think it you know, you decide to do it you go to the doctor and two months later you're having a gastric bypass but it doesn't work that way. It's a lot of doctor's visits different cardiologists, dietician, dieticians, regular doctor, your surgeon. And during all of that I had found out because I had to have an endoscopy done that I had gastroparesis. And I didn't know what that was. I didn't know that when I would eat, I would feel so uncomfortable. And I had really bad GERD I had really bad constipation. And so, found that out, and then had some more tests done and found out that I had fatty liver disease, and I was in stage two kidney disease. And really, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I it just blew my world. Like wide open. I thought, this is exactly what happened in my mom. And I'm, I'm doing it to myself. Like I'm, I'm my mom. And how

Scott Benner 46:23
long ago did you discover this?

Nanci 46:26
So, um, it was probably close to about two years ago, um, that I was going through. And what had happened was I so I was at that point, at this point, I was on Metformin, right Elsas, which is an oral semaglutide And one other diabetes medication that evades me at this moment. So I was taking three different medications for my diabetes. And I went to go have one of my endoscopies done and my blood sugar was 288 fasting on three different medications. And I was just beside myself, because I was like, I, I, what do I do, I just don't know what to do. And so I at that time, my regular doctor was just managing my diabetes. So I had made an appointment to see an endocrinologist, when to go see him and he right away said, You need to be on insulin, you're, you're the kind of type two diabetic that you're not responding to this, you need insulin. And so at that time, and this was obviously prior to me having a gastric bypass, but he put me on to Seba, Manjaro, and Glyburide. So again, I was on three medications, but three different medications from what I had previously been on

Scott Benner 48:01
going forward to write the Manjaro help you.

Nanci 48:05
Yes, it did. I, I, I I would say it was, you know, probably a couple of weeks. But my blood sugar levels were so much better, so much better. And I definitely felt better. There's no question that I wasn't feeling as sluggish. I wasn't feeling that just being exhausted failing all the time was

Scott Benner 48:36
was lowering your blood sugar? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You losing weight as well. Yeah,

Nanci 48:43
I definitely lost some weight. I won't say like I was on the very lowest dose. So I was, you know, started out at 2.5. And then after a month, moved up to the five and then stayed on the five until I had my gastric bypass. Okay. So I was on Manjaro for about four months.

Scott Benner 49:08
How much weight do you think you lost in four months?

Nanci 49:11
So I probably last I'm gonna say about 16 pounds.

Scott Benner 49:17
Okay. That's pretty Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Honestly. Yeah. Did you did it changed? I imagine how much you were able to eat?

Nanci 49:28
Oh, yeah, definitely.

Scott Benner 49:30
Did it change? You're like, I don't I don't know how to ask this question. I guess for clarity. I'm using weego V for weight loss. So ozempic is a drug just like Manjaro Magento, I think is a GLP one and maybe a GLP? Two, right. So there's more kind of

Nanci 49:50
GLP one and a G Ip gap.

Scott Benner 49:52
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, for for satiate satiation, right like, and weight loss. So As ozempic During the testing for ozempic, they were like, hey, people lose weight on this, whether they have diabetes or not. And they did a separate study, relaunched it as we go V. It's the same exact literally the same exact molecule. Right, and I, you know, my, my body mass made, it may be eligible for weak Ovie. And so now I've been taking it for I think I have two more injections left. So it's a ramp up point two, five 1.5 them. One, I think I have two more one. So I guess that makes me 10 weeks on this maybe. And I've lost 20 pounds. Wow. And it's fascinating. Because, I mean, I've maybe changed up how I eat a little bit, but not really. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's not like, it's not like I was eating like pizza and french fries with both hands. And now I'm having like a sound like, it wasn't like that I didn't over eat to begin with. I just was a person who's like bodies, like I just held on to weight, you know, and I didn't matter what I did, you know, I can die it like my face off and lose 10 pounds, maybe. But then the minute, the minute I had anything near even like a reasonable calorie count, I would just start to put the weight back on again. And yeah, that is not happening now. Like not only do I not have, I mean, any appetite to speak of, like you have to literally remind yourself to eat. Yeah, but I'm, I'm losing weight, like, in a very consistent pace. And to say that I've I mean, my blood sugar's were not high, but I feel terrific. And you know, much better than I did before. We even went, Yeah, you know, we were gone. Like to bring our son home from college than we'd like wrapped up seeing our son in there, too. So we were out of the house for like eight days, I ate in a restaurant for eight days in a row. And was on two long car trips, which is should be an indication to you that I was not, you know, drinking tea with my pinky out, like having a watercress salad for lunch. And I came home only a half a pound heavier than I left. And once and once I was home for 24 hours, my weight went right back to where I was.

Nanci 52:24
Yeah, I I definitely think that the the drugs, the GLP ones are game changers. There's no question. And I do sometimes think to myself, had I found it sooner? Would would I have still gone through with having

Scott Benner 52:48
the gastric bypass? Totally what I was thinking yeah, that's what I was wondering. Yeah, yeah.

Nanci 52:52
And, and I don't know, I really I don't know, because I have had really good success with my gastric bypass.

Scott Benner 53:01
Tell me about that. Yeah. How much have you lost? And how? In what stretch of time? So I

Nanci 53:07
just had my six month checkup from my surgery date. And I am down. Almost 59 pounds. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah. So um, um, I mean, when I started, I was just about 210. And, again, I'm only, you know, five to five, three. And, you know, some people are like, well, that's not that big. But it is. It's, it's a lot of weight to carry. And I'm considering, not that everyone goes by the BMI standards, or what they say you should weigh if you are this tall, or this tall. But if you do look at those, you know, I should only weigh about 130 pounds. And so think about 80 pounds. I mean, that's, that's a lot. That's a lot of weight to carry around

Scott Benner 54:16
my God, it's insane. I, I, um, while we were away, I saw something funny I wanted to take a picture of, and instead of just taking a picture of it, I jumped in the picture. And I said to Kelly, I'm like, take a picture of me with this. And that is just something I would not have normally done. Yeah. And I have more weight to lose. But it's the first photo I've seen of myself, where I thought I would show this to someone. Like, like, in quite some time. And it's just it's fascinating. Like it's just fascinating how much better I feel like in my mind even just, you know, yeah, because I my whole life. I was like I don't understand why I shouldn't be, uh, you know, I've said it on here a million times, I'm happy to say it again. I am the fattest person who doesn't eat that you'll ever meet in your life. Like, I really just don't eat much food. Like it doesn't make any sense. And they're starting to say now some, some doctors, some weight loss doctors are starting to say that maybe and I should have somebody on to like, explain this. So just keep in mind that I'm this is like second hand me going through something here. But maybe there are people with GLP deficiencies, like not much different than the thyroid. Like so yeah. Like, you know, maybe your body's just not making enough or maybe it's making it and not taking it up for some reason. So giving some of it like, you know, through a supplement is changing it because I can't tell you. Like, I know, I didn't have a lot. Like I'm not obese. Okay, I guess actually, technically I am. But you know, like, by the standards that the doctors used and healthcare, right. But I'm not like, I don't I don't even know how to put it. Honestly, I don't I don't have context for it. But you wouldn't have looked at me and thought, Oh, my God, Scott's gonna die. Like like it. I didn't have that feeling. And the doctor told me when she gave it to me Look, you know, because my wife started at the same time. And she said, Look, you know, you'll probably see weight loss before she does. And I was like, Alright, whatever. And she's like, plus, you know, guys just seem to lose weight easier, and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, but check this. And I'm four pounds lighter inside of five days. Now, nothing about my life changed that drastically. And then, you know, a couple more pounds the next week and a couple more, a couple more. And a couple more than one day. I was like, I weighed 20 pounds less than when I started. Yeah, it and I honestly think that 10 more weeks from now, I'm probably going to be down 40 pounds. And that's probably about where I I'll stop. But right, it was never going to happen otherwise, right? Never, ever, ever.

Nanci 57:00
And I totally agree with you that I think that there are people that have that deficiency, and these medications are changing their lives. Like literally, it's changing people's lives.

Scott Benner 57:14
I felt really sad last week when I saw that photo, and I thought, I wish I wish this would have existed sooner. Because I I have dodged being in photos with my kids.

Nanci 57:28
Yes, i Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I'm totally with you on that.

Scott Benner 57:34
And I mean, just for that alone made me sad, honestly. And I mean, I'm happy that medication exists. And I know it took forever to bring it to market. The first. The first inclination to this was in the early 80s, with a Canadian doctor who noticed that healer monsters don't get fat. And really, and they and they're not hungry after they eat. And that, wow, that led to him learning about the GLP and all this stuff. And then I you know, I happen to know because of what my wife did for a living like a decade ago, a decade ago, my wife came, my wife came home from work and said, there's going to be a drug one day that you take, it's going to help you lose weight. I've seen the early data, and it really works. Wow. But it's only really been on the market for a couple of years now.

Nanci 58:26
Yeah, because I, I remember when my doctor prescribed. So like I said, my primary care prescribe to me ride Celsus, which is the oral semaglutide it and it did nothing for me. Like I didn't lose any weight. It didn't do anything to my blood sugar. So I don't really understand how the injectable is different. But I guess maybe some people and more.

Scott Benner 58:57
I don't either, and I don't care. And I've heard people say like, well, there's no long term studies on I said, there are plenty long term studies on me being 40 pounds overweight and my 50s I know how that's gonna go with me. It's gonna go me having a heart attack is how it's gonna go. And you know, so I'm like, I don't want to I'm not going out like that. Like, I don't like I'm gonna fight a little bit here. And you can say, Oh, well, Scott, well, you could have eaten differently or exercise. I tried all that it didn't work. Like it just didn't do anything for me. I don't know why I don't even care why. And right. You know, it just it's not important. Like even let's say I didn't I deserve to die. Because I don't want to because I don't exercise like right we're, we're decision you know, and I've said this in another episode, but I'll repeat it here. This is kind of a grandiose thought. But if, if a generation of parents eat differently because they're on a GLP one for example, then a generation of children will grow up not eating poorly, because they won't be mirrored to them. Right? i We got lucky. Like, I'm not even gonna lie to you, we got really lucky because my wife and I, we grew up broke with any money. Like, we didn't have anybody leading us telling us how like what nutrition was, I'll tell people all the time, like in the 70s and 80s. Like no one understood what they eat. I know you think like, that's crazy, but it's not crazy. I made the joke earlier. There's a lemon on the front of like a lemonade mix that my mom would give us. And if you asked her if that was healthy, she'd be like lemons come from trees. You know what I mean? Like, like, come on. Don't be dumb, you know. And so there was no direction through any like that. I didn't have any directions. Then I had kids. And this is where I'm saying, I got lucky. My kids were so athletic, and so like involved and stuff like that. And we tried really hard to push them towards healthier food. But it was healthier to our understanding. Do you don't even like my idea of like health was like not serving my kid a frozen chicken nugget when he was little I cut up actual chicken and bread. Like I don't really know anything about nutrition or health or anything like that. And somehow my kids have are maintaining a better style of eating than Kelly and I had. But now suddenly, I mean, I got up this morning, I took two mushrooms and two eggs. And I scrambled them together in a pan and threw them in a wrap. And I couldn't even finish it. It was just like, oh, this is so much food. And so I finished it as best I could. And later today I'm going to have like a salad. And I think I'm gonna have some shrimp. Like I'm gonna like, I think I'm gonna pan fry, like saute some shrimp and throw it on some greens. And that's probably what I'm gonna end up eating today. Yeah, you know, and I'm gonna wake up tomorrow, a pound lighter than I was today. And I'm not hungry. And it's fascinating to my wife who I will have on the podcast at some point to talk about it because she has a much stronger kind of like, I don't know how to put it like a mental drawl to food. Yeah, right.

Nanci 1:02:05
It's that voice. Right. Yeah. And that's one of one of the things that I said, and I'm sad about Manjaro is that the one thing that I did notice is that it did take it took away the voice of me thinking, you know, before I went to bed at night, what will I have for breakfast tomorrow? And then while having breakfast thinking, what will I have for lunch today? And when I go grocery shopping, what will I buy to eat throughout the week? Yes, you might when I

Scott Benner 1:02:36
my wife talks about it exactly like that. Yeah, yeah. Open your eyes. Morning. What am I gonna eat for breakfast? And then wondering about lunch while you're making breakfast? Exactly. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, call that the food voice.

Nanci 1:02:50
Yeah. And I definitely felt that it Manjaro took that away from me. And now I eat pretty similar to what you just said that you eat. And it is a little bit more, because I have to, you know, I, I have a really small stomach now. So I have no choice. And I have to eat like that. But I do feel I feel I feel better about myself that I'm making those choices. And I'm not beating myself up about the choices that I make, like, so

Scott Benner 1:03:30
I can't agree anymore. Like that's, you know, to say to someone, like, it's easy to say to someone, we'll just have more self control. Right? Like, as a matter of fact, there's a whole industry out there there's, there's 10,000 podcasts making a living telling people to like you know, just be strong, you know, exactly. Which is very easy for a person who doesn't have what you just described, like, like, like an absolute pinging in your head of like, what am I going to eat next? What am I going to eat next? Like that's not, that's not a lack of willpower. That's a it's a wiring issue. You're wired exactly differently. And they don't have great willpower. They're just not wired that way. So it's easy for them, right? Just like everything else, not hard to understand. But yet it gets broken down, like haves and have nots, like the ones who are willing to put in the work and the ones who aren't willing to put in the work. And that's Yeah, I think a great many situations, that's not the case. And even if it was, I'll just say it again, that's not a good reason why your organs should deteriorate and you die prematurely. Like that's exactly not okay. Right. And so if something helps, like I just, I'm looking back at you and all I could think is somebody should have given this poor woman insulin eight years ago. Right, right. And yeah, real issues now.

Nanci 1:04:47
Yeah. I think that way too. And again, I do you know, I think to myself, How did you not learn about it or I tried to figure it out, but I, you know, I trusted my doctors and, and how I guess,

Scott Benner 1:05:07
I mean, honestly, I'm How would you know, you can't look anything you can think of in the world, even with access to the Internet right now. Because there is that argument like we have, I forget what it's like we have access to more information now than the President of the United States had in the 80s. Which is amazing, right? Except, except everything you wonder about, gets monetized by somebody. And then the other side of it gets monetized by somebody else. So there are two competing arguments like, like, you know, you you mentioned, you were on keto earlier, it's a perfectly reasonable way to eat if you want to eat that way. It's not a problem until someone starts making a living coaching you about your keto, or selling keto food, because now they are going to fight till the end of the earth to defend keto. And on the other side, somebody's out there with their cupcake company being like, these motherfuckers in their queue, I gotta sell these cupcakes. And like, you know, like, and they're, and it's back and forth, and back and forth. And now people have become so adept at marketing through how do I put this through everyday interactions, they've become so adept at it, that you can get involved in what you think is a conversation with somebody that's really just a marketing ploy. And yeah, you'll never know what's happening. And I only am aware of this because I run a Facebook group that is so big. And I've watched people do it with so many different things. They'll do it with T shirt sales, they'll do it with we just had a bit we actually literally just had a mob of six accounts that were just in there starting what looked like organic conversations about comfortable footwear to sell a shoe. And it was it was well done. So somehow, someone would show up and go, Oh, hey, ladies, talk to me about comfortable footwear, because I have to go on a blah, blah, blah, and I don't know, and then they'd let real people come in and answer. And then eventually, one of their other accounts would come in and go, Oh, my God, my doctor told me about these and they're great. And they put up a link and they were selling those shoes that they had three or four other accounts that come in to prop up the conversation and keep it going. And then when it ran out of steam, they delete it so that the moderators would notice it, and then they'd come around a couple days later and do it all over again. And sneaky and and it's very common. Wow, that's my point. Like I do. Yeah, I do stuff like I have ads. But you know, their ads, like, like, it's it's not like in the middle of the conversation. I just start like going like Yeah, yeah, right, right now that's crazy. Right, right. Yeah, no, yeah, I happen to me once while I was drinking my athletic greens. Like, it's not, it's not it's not like that. I say, Look, this episode is sponsored by ag one, if you want to support the podcast, and drinky G one. Great. And if you don't, Natalie even care, honestly. It helps me if you're already going to buy it, buy it with my link that helps the podcast. But it isn't me like slipping it into a conversation trying to like, trick you into it. But that's very, very, very common. Yeah. And so my long winded point is, it's difficult to get good information. When that's not people's goal all the time. Sometimes their goal is just to get you to go by a thing or do a thing or click on a link or hire a health teacher. I don't know how you're supposed to figure that out is my point.

Nanci 1:08:36
And I and I am very easily influenced. So I can tell you that I bought a lot of stuff. I bought a lot of keto products. A lot of you know, workout equipment, different clothing, shoes, you name it. I bought it all you

Scott Benner 1:08:56
desperate to save your life. Yeah, that's terrible. Like think of it 1000s of dollars or 10s of 1000s of dollars.

Nanci 1:09:05
I mean, I probably you know, spent a good I'd say I'd spent a good $5,000 on keto products alone. That's fine.

Scott Benner 1:09:16
That's a lot of me, Nancy to feed a poodle for a year and a half. I'm sorry, if you didn't see that coming. I was setting you up for that because I was amazed. That and so and you got a surgery. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I my assumption was you found them in Jarno, late enough that you were so far down the road for the surgery. It seemed too late to turn back.

Nanci 1:09:47
Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what happened. And I was at the point where like I was on Manjaro for about four months and my surgery date was coming up and I did struggle with it. I kind of went back and forth in my head and the the fact that I was so scared of regaining the weight after either being on Manjaro for a year, or having a weight loss surgery, I knew that the weight loss surgery was pretty permanent. And I did try to, you know, read to see what kind of studies and data there was with Manjaro weaning off of it or, you know, maintaining and there's not a lot of information out there yet about it hasn't been,

Scott Benner 1:10:38
I, I've come to the conclusion that if I have to be on a maintenance dose of this for the rest of my life, I don't even think I care. Like, like, Yeah, and if I grow a tail out of my forehead, I'll be thin as a pin with a tail on my forehead.

Nanci 1:10:56
You will look fabulous.

Scott Benner 1:10:58
I'll just accessorize it. I'll start hanging blink from it. I'll be like, that's my, that's my ozempic tail. Whatever. No, I mean, honestly, I don't. It's

Nanci 1:11:08
and then you can sell things on your podcast, like Facebook group,

Scott Benner 1:11:13
like, Hey, everybody, like us, we go V and yeah, you're gonna grow with tail out of your forehead. But here are these beautiful socks to keep them warm during the winter. And I'll just thread it into a conversation. So you'll never even know I'm selling them to you. Yeah, I mean, there are no advertisers. Right now, for any GLP ones on the podcast, I have to tell you, somebody came along here wanting to, I'd be happy to take an ad for that. But I would also tell you, it's an advertisement. But no, seriously, as far as I know, there are no side effects, the GLP is that make things grow out of your forehead. And certainly enough of the world has taken this up that we're going to find out, I think the next thing that you're going to see is doctors who do weight loss surgeries, you're going to start seeing them, like kind of chirp about these injections and tell you there's something wrong with them, because it's going to cut into their bottom line pretty heartily. Because really like ozempic, or we go Veerman jhana, what they're doing is they making you feel full faster, which is what the surgery does. But they also have the benefit of they're somehow impacting your hippocampus, they're literally telling your brain you're not hungry. And they're is some newer studies that I don't think are complete yet that are saying, also signal to your body that during weight loss to target your fat.

Nanci 1:12:36
Yeah, I did just read that the other day, which is amazing, because that's one of the things that they really watch after you have weight loss surgery is that you lose muscle mass. So that'd be amazing if the GLP ones stopped that

Scott Benner 1:12:53
just literally just anecdotally, but my weight is coming from places that I really struggled to get rid of it from. And so like, my example usually is with I would have just started dieting like aggressively on my own. Mike, my face would have slimmed down first. And then and then I would have like been like, Oh, my midsection is not like changing. And with this thing that was my midsection first. As a matter of fact, my face didn't start slimming down for like two months after that. And it was all coming out of my chest, my sides, my back and my stomach, which were the places like I can't even tell you that my stomach and my chest are on the same plane of existence now. Which is very new for me. That's amazing. Yeah. So anyway, wow. Well, well, okay, I'm sorry. I had to bring this back around again. I started me having these type two conversations. Because I was finding listeners who were basically like, look, I'm type two, but I use insulin. So I started listening to the podcast, and it was really helping me. And so how are you managing right now?

Nanci 1:14:05
So right now, I'm only on one medication called tra Genta. Okay, it's an it's an oral medication. And the reason being is because obviously right after I had my gastric bypass, I couldn't eat I had to it was all liquid. And so I even had a couple of low blood sugar episodes after my surgery. And so I was taken off of everything. And once I started to eat again, and I was consuming some carbs, some sugars. My blood sugar levels did start to go up a little bit. So when I had my three month exam after my gastric bypass, and I saw my Endo, he put me On the agenda and said, Well, let's see how you do with this and then we'll when you come back in six months, we'll look at your blood sugar's I wear libre, too. So I'm my monitor my sugar. And I've had, I have had some instances where if I eat something more Harvey, I've my blood sugar's have gone up some a couple of times over 200. So I'm not really sure if I'll get put back on insulin. But we'll have to wait and see what are your What are your

Scott Benner 1:15:44
fasting blood sugars like?

Nanci 1:15:47
So the last time I had my fasting, it was 121, which is, for me, I feel like really good. Now what I want do I want it to be 90 Of course, like but, and my a one C at my last check was 6.3. Which again, for me, it's really good considering when I went on insulin. It was a point nine Wow. So it's really, really come down quite a bit.

Scott Benner 1:16:26
What do you what do you give credit to here? Weight loss, a change in your diet? And the trajectory? Those three things you think are what's keeping you where you're at?

Nanci 1:16:37
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think the weight loss and the fact that, you know, I'm forced to eat protein, because of the gastric bypass, so you learn that you have to eat protein before anything else. And because I have such a small stomach, I can only eat, you know, like, three to six ounces. And eating some, you know, eating that in chicken, you get full and so I'm not eating. Maybe if we had mashed potatoes or rice that night, I'm not really eating that because I'm eating the chicken and I'm getting full. And so I'm not eating the stuff that would cause my blood sugar to go high. But I have had a couple of instances where I've, you know, said I'm gonna try buy to that sandwich or a bite of that pizza. And I've my blood sugar's have gone up. And I'm not sure if that's just my, you know, like, my body being like, Whoa.

Scott Benner 1:17:49
Alright, are you do you still have your food voice?

Nanci 1:17:53
Um, no, I don't

Scott Benner 1:17:56
just your tastes change a little.

Nanci 1:17:59
I have a food voice in that I do have to still prepare, you know, like, I can't just be willy nilly and throw caution to the wind and just hope that there's food that I can eat. I have to be prepared. So I do have to think about it in that sense. And I definitely feel like there have been times that I have thought, God, I cut my right arm off for a slice of chocolate cake. Like a job, you know, and I don't have the chocolate cake, but I do have that feeling like I really would just want it so bad.

Scott Benner 1:18:43
But work full. Okay, what could you have like a fork full of chocolate cake?

Nanci 1:18:48
Yeah, I probably could. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:18:51
but you're but you don't think you would? If you started you think you'd? So ah, so it's funny. I can't believe I'm doing like I honestly never saw myself as a person who'd be advocating for like medication to change how you eat. I've learned a lot like in these last 10 weeks already. And I there's part of me that feels a little sad because you got your stomach made smaller. Yeah, right. Because if you could have gotten the food voice to go away with with the medication and you would have felt fuller sooner that might have helped you regulate the amount and the types of reading because I'll tell you I made a good decision after good decision this week in those restaurants. I was like I am not eating anything that's fried. I am not eating anything that you know but like I stayed away from a number of different things on purpose and I had a perfectly lovely time. Like at lunch I you know I had like I sat down and I was like, Can I get a a cup of soup and and I think it was like chicken rice soup and kind of a cup of that soup and a half of a turkey sandwich. And and she goes we only serve that At full turkey sandwiches, I was like, Well, if you bring me a full turkey sandwich, you'll be throwing a lot of it away. I'm like, you can do whatever you want. But I'm going to eat half of that cup of soup. And by the way, here's what I want on the bread. Nothing, just put the turkey in there. And I said, like one slice of cheese. She goes, it's gonna come with two slices of cheese, I was coming to one of them away. And I'm like, bring me a little like, I think I put like yellow mustard on the bread a little bit. And they brought up potato chips. And I was like, I don't want these. And she's like, well, they come with the sandwich. I was like, alright, so I had like four potato chips, I had like three quarters and a half of a turkey sandwich and half of a cup of soup. And I was like, Oh, good, like, just like two in the afternoon. And I thought, Well, that's good. I don't need to eat any more today. But I could still eat it. The same thing?

Nanci 1:20:51
Like no, and I totally understand what you're saying. And I do get sad myself sometimes. And think that if I had given it a little bit more time on the Manjaro, or if I hadn't been going through the process to get the gastric bypass, and again, it's a long process. So I mean, you really have to be committed, and, you know, to be that committed, and then, you know, at at the point where you're gonna get it to say, No, I think I'm, I'm just gonna try this over here instead. You know, it just made me a little bit like, scared and nervous, because I had felt like, I'd been on such a roller coaster for such a long time. And I just knew that, for me having the gastric bypass would give me some permanency. And in my life, like, Yeah, I know that sounds drastic. And to a lot of people it is it is like people are so put off by the gastric bypass. And I always tell people, you have to make your own decision. Like you have to do what's right for you. But I will say that I have people in my life that I have been pushing to go and get one of the GE LPs. I mean, I have been like, Look, you have been struggling, and you're, you know, younger than me, and you need some help. And these these medications help. You need to go talk to your doctor about being on this. But there's a lot of people Scott that, you know, they they really have like a negative attitude when it comes to getting anything to help with losing weight. Like they just like you said before, yeah, they they just think What's matter with you? Why can't you just do what on your own, like, get a grip.

Scott Benner 1:22:49
We were all parented poorly. But I first of all, I've become a drug pusher, I play it to other people, my family are already gotten. Yeah. And they type they had type two diabetes, like, go get this, like, you know what I mean? Right, please. And, but But your point about not wanting to do it, like the part that fascinates me, like burns right through my brain when you say that, it's like, they'll say, Oh, well, I don't, I shouldn't have to take an injection to lose weight, but they'll have gastroparesis from their type two, or kidney failure from there, type two and go well, like well as the cost of doing business. You know, it's not like like, if, if you're a person who, for whatever reason, is not eating in a way that leads to health. And you're telling me that injecting something once a week, and I can't tell you how easy it is, like I do it on the podcast, it's click, wait, click out done. I don't think about it again, I don't even like feel the needle, I don't even know what's happening. And you're telling me if you could do that, and avoid a kidney failure one day, that would be a bridge too far. And but, but the kidney failure is not like it's a it's a fascinating way to think about something incorrectly. Like I'm not saying I'm not saying it's optimal to have to take a drug to make this happen. But you know what, it's not optimal for a person with I don't know, bipolar disorder to have to take a drug not to have those issues, but that's the situation they find themselves in. So I mean, is there a phrase play the ball where it lies? Like you don't mean like yeah, you don't want to decide we all don't get to be you know, six feet tall and a muscular podcast are making $9 billion a year telling everybody to try harder like like that guy's thing. i My thing is I don't eat much food and I'm fat. Like Like yeah, not okay. You don't II mean so. Anyway, and then around type two diabetes just as well. Like, what you what you hear is, it's why I'm making that that type two series and why I'm talking to more people with type two Overwhelmingly, people think of insulin as failure. Oh, you know, if everything else fails, I'll try insulin maybe, well, 10 years from now. When everything else fails, including your kidneys, then yeah, like you're gonna think, Oh, I wish I would have used insulin 10 years ago because I guarantee Nancy, I put you in a fucking time machine. Yeah, you're out there looking for it. Yeah,

Nanci 1:25:25
you don't you don't know how many people looked at me sideways when I said, Yeah, you know, I finally went to the endo and he put me on insulin and they were like, you know, they just were like, what?

Scott Benner 1:25:40
Well, let me say this for you fuck them. Okay, right. Yeah. I care if you stay alive. They care if you airway. Yeah. If you don't do it the right way. Then what what's the point? The point is being alive, you moron. It's crazy. Your walk around Nancy and thing? A lot of people can't think. Yes.

Nanci 1:26:01
Daily. What is happening daily.

Scott Benner 1:26:06
It's so lost in the wrong part of a conversation.

Nanci 1:26:10
I don't know. I let me let me lay it

Scott Benner 1:26:14
out for people listening. Staying alive. That's first. That's the goal every day, the goal? Free Day. It's your first goal. Gotta stay alive next day. Stay alive and be healthy. Okay, yeah. And be nice to people do things, the blah, blah, blah, work. I want you to work hard. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, I don't think that it's a valuable thing. Or if I ever said this, I assumed this was obvious. But I don't think it's an it's a valuable thing. To you know, eat every horrible thing in the world. And think, well, I'll just inject this and it'll it'll counteract it. By the way, that's not how this stuff works. It's, it's not like it does not like it makes it go away. Like I could eat too much food today, my stomach would hurt. And I would probably gain weight. And so the drugs not going to stop that from happening. I could physically pushed through it just like you could physically. There are plenty of ways to cheat around the surgery you had?

Nanci 1:27:14
Well, not really. I mean, you get pretty sick. That's, I mean, that's the one deterrent that is is a little bit different is

Scott Benner 1:27:23
you haven't heard you get all blending down like well, crap. Yeah, I'm drinking them and stuff like that.

Nanci 1:27:28
Yeah. But um, I will say in my own personal case, and I pretty much know, I you know, like, I've taken a bite of something that it just didn't sit right. And yeah, and you know, you your body gives you a reaction, whether it be just like you get really, really hot. And you almost feel like a little bit like dizzy. You know, some people have like, they'll throw up. Luckily for me, I haven't had any of that throwing up thing, thank goodness. But just a really like, Dizzy, hot feeling of not feeling good at all. And I And again, you know, a lot of people will listen to me say that and be like, and you have to live your life like that. You're gonna be like that for the rest of your life. But, you know, don't feel bad for me. I made the decision. And I I'm okay with it. You know, I'm fine with it.

Scott Benner 1:28:35
Also, the alternative was what happened your mom?

Nanci 1:28:39
Exactly, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and

Scott Benner 1:28:42
it's everybody wants things exactly the way they want them. Right. So it's like, well, I You should be able to eat whatever you want. And be healthy. I'm like, Okay, well, in the that's not working.

Nanci 1:28:52
Right and fantasyland. Right. Right?

Scott Benner 1:28:55
So I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for like, anything I can do to stay on. Listen, you would never, I think good for you that you got the surgery. Like, if that's what you want to do, man. Good for you.

Nanci 1:29:07
You know? Yeah, I mean, that's what I say to you know, other people. And I also say to, you know, all the naysayers, it's like, you know, you have to make a decision that's right for you, ultimately. And I'm, I'm happy for all of the people that are having success with the GLP ones. And again, I've like you, I felt like, you know, I'm pushing drugs on people, but I have also been like, look, y'all need to get this good stuff. But, and I answer questions for anybody that has them about the gastric bypass. You know, it's not for everybody, every everything is not for everybody. But you know, we're all just doing the best that we can and try and you know, to be here and live our lives and I have two beautiful granddaughters that you know, absolutely adore and I just want to be around for them. Men want to watch every moment of their life and be involved in it and be healthy. And so, you know, for me, it was the best thing to do.

Scott Benner 1:30:09
Yeah, plus, someone's got to cover that nut on that poodle. When the people working, I mean, right, exactly. To deal with you guys die. I don't know, trust me, it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna eat their shit out the backyard. That's what it's gonna do. And it'll be fine, by the way, probably right? You let that pool out of that house right now? It would be Yeah, it'd be like, it'll be alright.

Nanci 1:30:39
Yeah, life goes on. All right.

Scott Benner 1:30:42
I really appreciate you doing this very much. It's a great conversation. And, you know, I just I'm trying very hard to I don't want to say stupid things that people say all the time, like D stigmatize, and like, blah, blah, blah. I just want people with type two diabetes, to feel comfortable asking questions, finding answers for themselves, and doing something that's going to make a meaningful impact on their life, not something that maybe will help them eight years from now after they try weightwatchers keto 19 Other things and then go, oh, by the way, none of that work, and now I'm starting to have bad bad health impacts, and I still am no closer to an answer. So, you know, I don't know it just,

Nanci 1:31:27
and I totally, totally appreciate the fact that, you know, obviously, you started this podcast for type one, and, but I can't tell you how much I appreciate that you have taken the time to talk to, and listen to type two diabetics and do exactly what you just said is, you know, erase some of the stigma around it. And, and make people you know, feel like they're just not failures, I've really appreciate because I felt like such a failure a lot. And then I listened to a lot of your podcasts. And even though, you know, is mostly for type ones, I got so much helpful information, and also just learned so much and thought, wow, there's just this world is so big, and there's so many people out there. But there's so many people like me. So

Scott Benner 1:32:25
absolutely. Well, I appreciate you saying that. I am evolved enough now not even make a stupid joke. Say something about me. My first inclination, that little child inside of me wants to say something very dumb. The first thing I thought to say was, well, yeah, I'm terrific. You don't have to say. I just appreciate that it's reaching people. And that it's yes. And I'll say this, like, Look, you should be eating better foods, simple foods, like you know, don't don't eat a ton of processed food and flour and sugar and all that stuff. And you should be getting some exercise, right, like, Get out Get moving like all that. Yep. But if that's not working, adding something is not. It's not some sort of a sin. Yes, exactly. And the people around you who like Nancy, like ran into who are gonna give you crap about it. I will tell you the same thing. The same thing I send to a mother. Recently on the show mother called, called in. Yeah, like it's a ham radio. Sorry. Where was it there just a mother comes on the show to talk about her kid being like bullied at school, right? And she kind of went with the like, you know, hippie, like, Yo, well, you have to understand Baba Mon, I was like, fuck those kids. I was. I was like, I said, you know, try this. And by the way, I heard back from her. And rainbows and hippies worked for her kid, which is terrific. But my perspective. Part of my perspective was, is we don't care about people who don't care about us. Yeah, like right so if you need to do something, Nancy to better your life. And there are people around you who would give you crap about it. I don't care what they think. I gotta be like, they're gonna be alive. Like like, Yeah, I'll be dead and what they'll be happy with how I accomplished it. Like what do you write? Do you care what other people think? I just don't think I think it's insane. Like if anybody came after me and said like, you can't take we've taken we go Vyas cheating, I'd be like I don't hear you. What, here's what I hear. My chest and my stomach appear to be on the same line. I feel better. I move better. Right knee doesn't hurt as much. And I couldn't possibly care. What any, there's no, there's no one that could come to me now. And shame me about what I'm doing. That's awesome. Yeah. And by the way, if I do grow a tail out of the side of my forehead, 10 years from now, you know what, I'll say I'll go Huh? Huh, maybe that was a misstep. But but but But if I'm healthy and alive, I'd be like, You know what, I'm alright, because I don't know what's gonna happen. But I know that men, especially men who are shaped like me and carry their weight, where I carry my weight, tend to die of heart attacks. And I also exactly happened to know because my wife forced me into looking into my birth my mother years ago, that my birth mother became despondent after giving me up for adoption, which led to a life of obesity. And it led to her on a table trying to get your surgery. And she and she coded and died during the surge in are 14, that's terrible. And I can tell I feel badly telling it dispassionately because I don't know her as my mother obviously. But, but that So okay, so she had a heart attack from like, bah, bah, bah. So what am I doing? Like, I don't want that to happen. Like you said earlier. I've got kids and I might have grandchildren one day or right, you know, like, maybe not, but also I want to see what like the iPhone 25 looks like and what you want to see if they can put like a nuclear reactor and an electric car. I'm dying to see if that happens. You know, like, I'm trying to stay here. The alternative. Yes, it's over. Like that's it. And for those of you who think like there's an afterlife, that's great. I also don't want to be chubby in the afterlife. Okay, so I'm trying to I'm trying to get all right, well,

Nanci 1:36:27
you want to be a spelt ghost?

Scott Benner 1:36:30
Well, yeah. Okay. Yes, that's what I want. Dammit. I want to look nice when I'm dead and floating around the house. We're like Casper are more like, like embodiment? I don't

Nanci 1:36:45
know from the movie Ghost. You want to be more like Patrick Swayze?

Scott Benner 1:36:49
I don't think I'm getting there. But he's a handsome man. Although his brother not nearly as handsome. Really? You don't know his brother? I do not. I feel bad. I believe he's still alive. So let's not go too far down. But before we leave Patrick Swayze he's brother.

Nanci 1:37:11
Apparently he did not get the good looks. His name's Dodd family. Okay, John.

Scott Benner 1:37:16
Okay. John. Dan, God bless you. You're never gonna hear this. But Don looks like Patrick. But made out of spare parts. I don't know how to say that.

Nanci 1:37:33
Well, now I have to immediately go on when you

Scott Benner 1:37:37
really see a super handsome person. And I mean, for male or female, a very handsome person like their eyes, their forehead, their nose, their lips. They all match. Right? Right. And then Don Swayze looks like at the end of the day, God had about five face parts. They were all attractive but didn't go together. And he was like, listen, we gotta get out of here. Just stick these on this one and let's go. Right, like so he looks like Patrick, but it's not as smooth. She's so funny. By no means xenon. Attractive, man. But if you only knew Don Swayze, you'd think as a handsome guy, but you're standing next to Patrick Swayze. And all of a sudden, you're like, What the hell happened to that guy? Right. Like, which is unfair, because Patrick Swayze looks like, I mean, he's dead. But he was like,

Nanci 1:38:22
yeah, he's good looking man.

Scott Benner 1:38:24
Are you handsome man is what? I'm sorry. That's all. I just don't think I'm gonna get that handsome. I think I'm gonna look like I'm gonna look like Don Swayze. When I get fit. Okay. Yeah. Which, God bless I go for that. Yeah. All right, man. See, I know for one for sure you and I had a conversation about weight that most people don't have in 2023. And I loved it. So

Nanci 1:38:44
me too. Good. I'm glad it was amazing.

Scott Benner 1:38:46
Hold on one second.

I hope you're enjoying the Type Two diabetes stories. I know I enjoyed talking to Nancy. Thank you very much to contour for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast contour next.com forward slash juice box. Check out that contour next meter and those Second Chance test strips and of course, touched by type one.org. Come out and see me on September 16. It's completely free and we're gonna have a great day, I promise. Hey, if you're just finding the podcast now you have pre diabetes or type two diabetes, check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. It's a private group. It's more than its name suggests. We have a ton of type twos there. Come find out more.

If you have type two or pre diabetes, that type two diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast is exactly what you're looking for. Do you have a friend or a family member who is struggling to understand their type two and how to manage it? This series is for them seven episodes to get you on track. up to speed. Episode 860 series intro 864 guilt and shame episode 869 medical team 874 fuelling plan, Episode 880 diabetes technology episode 85 GLP ones metformin and insulin and an episode 889 We talk about movement. This episode is with me and Jenny Smith. Of course you know Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist. She is a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. Too many people don't understand their type two diabetes, and this series aims to fix that, share it with a friend or get started today. When you support the Juicebox Podcast by clicking on the advertisers links, you are helping to keep the show free and plentiful. I am certainly not asking you to buy something that you don't want. But if you're going to buy something, or use a device from one of the advertisers, getting your purchases set up through my links is incredibly helpful. So if you have the desire or the need, please consider using Juicebox Podcast links to make your purchases